# [2011] Westgate Tower of Terror Las Vegas No More! [merged]



## timeos2

As long anticipated the ill-fated and 1/3 complete Wastegate Planet Hollywood Tower (of Terror) is soon to be rebranded without Wastegate involvement.  See story here. 

While nothing will ever improve the mess this monstrosity ended up being (the original, unique design was seriously compromised most likely by expenses and only 1/3 of the planned resort has actually been built) at least the worlds worst management and sales company will no longer manage/sell it. 

Of course the LAST thing Hilton needed was yet another Las Vegas property - especially one as tainted and garish as this one - but since their other strip property is now virtually an island at the seriously depressed end of the strip at least the Tower of Terror is in the hot area now.  Those poor people that got suckered into the Wastegate pitch and paid far too much will still be left under the Wastegate thumb - a true nightmare for them.  

Now lets run them out of the remaining resorts they blight with their very presence...


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## AwayWeGo

*No More WestGate Timeshare Sellers At HGVC Planet Hollywood ?*

The 12*,*000 existing owners remain with WestGate, it says, but future timeshares selling on site will be HGVC. 

Sounds like that means it will be possible to stay there without having to encounter any WestGate sales weasels. 

Won't that be something ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## billinlv

*Hilton takes over PH Towers by Westgate [merged]*

Hopefully I can post this about Hilton taking over PH Towers by Wetgate.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/re...ort-property-from-westgate-resorts-2011-11-22


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## Pit

> The more than 12,000 existing owners of the property will continue to enjoy the full ownership rights and benefits associated with their original purchase from Westgate Resorts.



From that statement, it is not clear what role Westgage will have, if any, regarding the existing owners.


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## Remy

Just a quick walk to the Flamingo. Glad we'll have more options, but for the love of jeebus, can we get out of the same three states? Two of the three latest acquisitions are in locations where HGVC is already operating.


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## Purseval

I don't get it.  Why would HGVC work with another company when they are trying to build up membership in their own resorts?  It sounds like they are competing against themselves since the profits would go to RFA and not HGVC.


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## siesta

I wonder how this will affect the resorts exchange co. affiliation. Currently its with II, but HGVC is obv. w/ RCI


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## ocdb8r

Purseval said:


> I don't get it.  Why would HGVC work with another company when they are trying to build up membership in their own resorts?  It sounds like they are competing against themselves since the profits would go to RFA and not HGVC.



I'm sure it's financially lucrative for them.  

Does anyone know what the remaining inventory at the HGVC Vegas properties currently is?  It may not be that big of a consideration - plus, I think the demographic is slightly different.  The PH Towers are targeted to a bit younger crowd.

Regardless, it appears obvious moving forward that this will be the new model.  Both HGVC and Marriott Spinco have made it clear they will not be pushing resort development, but rather this sort of sales and management partnership with other developers.  The change in the financial markets means they just can't justify getting caught with loads of inventory on their books when access to credit freezes.  


As to the news itself, I consider it VERY exciting.  We stayed here on an II exchange right after it opened and actually enjoyed it quite a bit.  The rooms are very swank and being connected to the PH Hotel is pretty nice (despite the long walk through the mall).  The opportunity to stay here without the Wastegate wolves roaming will be a plus.  It will be REALLY curious to see where the point charts come out.

Two main concerns struck me then and still hold true now: 1) the maintenance on these units has got to be high both because of their level of furnishing and the beating they take from more rambunctious guests and 2) The hotel often uses the rooms as upgrades or overflow...and a lot of bachelor parties end up in the units leading to not only more wear and tear but also can lead to some problems if you happen to be staying next door....or even if you've got to step over them passed out in the hallways or elevators (yes, we did encounter this on our stay).

One more article: http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/nov/22/ph-towers-westgate-planet-hollywood-has-new-owner/

Only thing it adds is that the CEO of Westgate had been quoted in the Orlando Centinal as saying that banks started to refuse to finance sales at the towers.


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## islandguy

*Westgate PH now Hilton*

Just read an article saying Resot Finance America acquires controling interest in the PH Westgate Resort and will rebrand it a Hilton timeshare. 

So is that better for the current owners?  Will Hilton allow them to transfer into the Hilton Club?  

Looking forward to better customer service now that Hilton will be the on site brand.


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## timeos2

One more take on the new owner/operators of the Tower of Terror. 

It does appear that the tie to Hilton will bring an effective change to dual-affiliation (II if Wastegate owner deposits & RCI if a Hilton owner deposits). That is a real positive as it should open exchange into the resort by both groups - always a good situation.  

I do seriously feel sorry for those unfortunate owners who will be stuck with Wastegate ownership as it is already worth virtually nothing and now is likely to be viewed as the lesser option for that resort.  Those that bought in to Wastegate, as usual, are big losers in a high cost game.  Hopefully it will help people realize that dealing with Wastegate in any shape or resort is a colossal mistake. At least the management on site will be controlled by Hilton  That is a plus for both sets of owners.


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## jjlovecub

So glad I didn't buy here as tempted as I was (resale). I have exchanged into the resort with ease - hopefully it does end up with an II and RCI option but if not the Grand Chateau is a great and easy exchange property as well


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## UWSurfer

It's usually less expensive to sell something already built than it is to build it from scratch.  As an HGVC owner with two weeks already based in Vegas (for low MF's), PH as an HGVC will be a hot exchange and may command premium points values like their more desirable newer towers in Hawaii and New York.

Flamingo has always sold out first given it's desirable location, this acquisition may take some of the pressure off of Flamingo.

Now if we could get them to build an HGVC  Washington, D.C!


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## timeos2

UWSurfer said:


> Now if we could get them to build an HGVC  Washington, D.C!



If they would just have something new in places other than Orlando & LV! Talk about one track mind.


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## ocdb8r

timeos2 said:


> I do seriously feel sorry for those unfortunate owners who will be stuck with Wastegate ownership as it is already worth virtually nothing and now is likely to be viewed as the lesser option for that resort.  Those that bought in to Wastegate, as usual, are big losers in a high cost game.  Hopefully it will help people realize that dealing with Wastegate in any shape or resort is a colossal mistake. At least the management on site will be controlled by Hilton  That is a plus for both sets of owners.



Am I the only one that feels like there may be a bit too much reading into the very breif statement that "The more than 12,000 existing owners of the property will continue to enjoy the full ownership rights and benefits associated with their original purchase from Westgate Resorts."  

First, this could just be press misinterpretation of the assurance that current owners will retain their ownership rights (i.e. what the deed guarantees them to, not necessarily continued affiliation with Westgate).  Second, even if the assumption is correct, I would not be surprised to see HGVC offer Westgate owners an opportunity to convert their weeks over the HGVC at a cost.  

The articles are pretty scant on details - often vital ones.  Upon re-reading, nowhere does it say that the resort will be "managed" by HGVC, but only that HGVC will provide "sales and marketing" services.  Who will actually be managing the resort?  Are we to assume Westgate has retained an interest in the resort since RFA has only acquired a "controlling interest"?  We don't know if there were parties other than Westgate that had an interest...I think there is still a lot to be discovered.

On another note, I wonder what percentage of the resort is sold!?!  1201 units = 62,452 weeks to be sold....yet there are currently only 12,000 owners.  I know we don't know the average number of weeks owned, but given the number of EOY resales I've seen, I can't imagine it's much higher than 1 (and could even be lower).  That means something like 80% of the resort is unsold!  No wonder we see so many bulk bankings in II!!!  Regardless it's a LOT of inventory for HGVC to push.


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## UWSurfer

The first article (link from first posting) has a quote:

"We are delighted to announce the selection of Hilton Grand Vacations as our exclusive provider of timeshare services for this project, as well as the rebranding of this property as a Hilton Grand Vacations resort."

Rebranding would indicate that it will be an HGVC property, which then suggests they will be managing it.


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## pedro47

AwayWeGo said:


> The 12*,*000 existing owners remain with WestGate, it says, but future timeshares selling on site will be HGVC.
> 
> Sounds like that means it will be possible to stay there without having to encounter any WestGate sales weasels.
> 
> Won't that be something ?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



The 12,000 t/s owners that purchase thur WestGate will their unit be maintain by HGVC or WestGate?

If they are maintain by HGVC would not that be a win - win for the West Gate owners?


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## ricoba

Do you think HGVC may try to get more Westgate Resorts to expand its limited location?  

After all, didn't HGVC start as a buy out or merger with another company?  Didn't Krieger come from that other ts company?  

Just wondering????


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## durrod

*Westgate financial update*

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-kassab-david-siegel-20111101,0,5383213.column


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## am1

Wyndham's loss after Desert Blue seems to have disappeared.  Less than a half mile apart and I am sure the points would be a lot higher but would be a lot different than the Grand Desert.  Although I think the Grand Desert is great for what it is.  Just not a place for a few people for just a few nights, especially without a car.


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## timeos2

ocdb8r said:


> Am I the only one that feels like there may be a bit too much reading into the very breif statement that "The more than 12,000 existing owners of the property will continue to enjoy the full ownership rights and benefits associated with their original purchase from Westgate Resorts."
> 
> First, this could just be press misinterpretation of the assurance that current owners will retain their ownership rights (i.e. what the deed guarantees them to, not necessarily continued affiliation with Westgate).  Second, even if the assumption is correct, I would not be surprised to see HGVC offer Westgate owners an opportunity to convert their weeks over the HGVC at a cost.



The article in the Las Vegas Review makes it clear that Hilton - through a third party management - will be in control at the resort.  
"Terms were not immediately disclosed. A Resort Finance unit, Lantern  Asset Management of Dallas, will provide management services."

Pay MORE to join HGVC? It is a great club BUT these poor owners already paid tens of thousands they'll never get back for a pig in the poke.  Few if any will want to spend more. 

I LOVE the ""I'm very frugal," Siegel said quote from King David in the Orlando Sentinel article. 90,000 square foot mansion - up from a "mere" 20,000 square feet.  Yeah, that's a frugal guy alright.  

What a weasel.


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## timeos2

am1 said:


> Wyndham's loss after Desert Blue seems to have disappeared.  Less than a half mile apart and I am sure the points would be a lot higher but would be a lot different than the Grand Desert.  Although I think the Grand Desert is great for what it is.  Just not a place for a few people for just a few nights, especially without a car.



Grand Desert is two (long) blocks from the strip. Desert Blue would have been in a desolate, basically industrial area near (by about 1/4 mile) the RIO but WAY farther from the strip in the middle of nowhere.  If it was built it might rival PHT of Terror as the worst timeshare in Vegas albeit for two different reasons.  (Management, exterior design, incomplete building & sales in one case - location in the other).


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## ocdb8r

timeos2 said:


> Pay MORE to join HGVC? It is a great club BUT these poor owners already paid tens of thousands they'll never get back for a pig in the poke.  Few if any will want to spend more.



I think you underestimate the timeshare industry.   Many have no clue what a bath they have taken on their purchase...just look at some of the resale ads.  There's a listing on eBay for a 4 bdrm for $150,000 - don't worry the seller knows it's worth "about $250,000" but is happy to take the 150K.  Only those who've tried to sell realize what trouble they are in.  Further, there are PLENTY of examples of people who've already dropped tens of thousands, dropping a bit more to join HGVC...that's what the affiliate program has been all about.  If offered at a reasonable price, why not drop some cash to get away from Wastegate and maybe increase your usage options via HGVC?  What you've alreay lost, is lost. (not that I am advocating this, just that there are probably plenty of the 12,000 that HGVC could convert).


It's interesting to note that RFA (who bought the controlling interest) is also behind MarBrisa in CA.  Looks like a pretty cozy relationship with HGVC.


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## dougp26364

timeos2 said:


> Pay MORE to join HGVC? It is a great club BUT these poor owners already paid tens of thousands they'll never get back for a pig in the poke.  Few if any will want to spend more.



I'm sure many will pay the joiner fee. The last I knew, affiliated resort owners were only charged $695, or something like that, to join the HGVC points system. If that continues to be the case then it's a pretty low price of admission to one of the best points based reservations systems in the indurstry. 

Using the tried and true HGVC method of sales, they'll own in Las Vegas but will have easy access into the HGVC properties in Hawaii. If the points structure for the tower units is considered premium and they're alloted more points than the standard units, tower owners could convert to HGVC and have equal access into HGVC Grand Wiakakian Tower in HNL. It would be an attractive offer to those who have been burned by Westgate.

Don't underestimate the attraction of points based exchange systems vs weeks based systems. Once presented, for some it's a no brainer to join just for the flexiblity. We purchased into HGVC for their flexablity, we converted our Polo Towers weeks into DRI's THE Club for nearly $3,000 and we converted our Marriott weeks to their Destinations Club program. To date we have made excellent usage out of all three programs and are at the break even point as far as savings vs cost with both the DRI and Marriott conversions.

Of course it depends on how HGVC presents any conversion offer and the cost associated with that conversion but, if the cost were right I could see a relatively higher percentage (20% or greater) of conversions in the next couple of years.


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## tahoeJoe

*Wheres the 3rd?*



Remy said:


> Glad we'll have more options, but for the love of jeebus, can we get out of the same three states? Two of the three latest acquisitions are in locations where HGVC is already operating.



OK, 1) South Carolina, 2) Nevada, where is the 3rd acquisition?


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## pedro47

dougp26364 said:


> I'm sure many will pay the joiner fee. The last I knew, affiliated resort owners were only charged $695, or something like that, to join the HGVC points system. If that continues to be the case then it's a pretty low price of admission to one of the best points based reservations systems in the indurstry.
> 
> 
> Don't underestimate the attraction of points based exchange systems vs weeks based systems. Once presented, for some it's a no brainer to join just for the flexiblity. We purchased into HGVC for their flexablity, we converted our Polo Towers weeks into DRI's THE Club for nearly $3,000 and we converted our Marriott weeks to their Destinations Club program. To date we have made excellent usage out of all three programs and are at the break even point as far as savings vs cost with both the DRI and Marriott conversions.
> 
> Of course it depends on how HGVC presents any conversion offer and the cost associated with that conversion but, if the cost were right I could see a relatively higher percentage (20% or greater) of conversions in the next couple of years.



$695 is a great price to join a point based exchange system in my opinion.


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## dougp26364

tahoeJoe said:


> OK, 1) South Carolina, 2) Nevada, where is the 3rd acquisition?



I think what he meant when he said "get out of the same three states" was to get out of Nevada (now 4 resorts in Las Vegas), FL and Hawaii. It seems that HGVC concentrates the majority of their resorts in those popular vacation destination locations with very little varity in other locations. Before the economy collapsed HGVC has plans to build an additional Las Vegas resort out by Lake Las Vegas. I much prefer this option to the original plan or, for that matter, to even completing the final two towers of the north strip project. I would still have prefered something other than another Las Vegas resort where the sales mantra will be "buy here and trade into Hawaii."

When we originally joined in 2002 (or somewhere in that timeframe), the only other US option was Colorado. The only other additions of states besides NV, FL and HW have been SC and NY. It's been a lack of variety in loctaions that kept us from expanding out HGVC ownership interests while we did increase ownership interests with other timeshare groups.


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## i39249

*Unsure if this is good or not*

I am in agreement with dougp26364......

I think the incentive is high for WG members to convert to HGVC because it will allow them easy access to HGVC properties in Hawaii.  I am sure this will be use as a selling point.   I for one don't think its a good deal for us current members of HGVC because it will be more difficult to book stays in Hawaii.  Hilton needs to expand their resort collection outside of Las Vegas......


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## ocdb8r

i39249 said:


> I am in agreement with dougp26364......
> 
> I think the incentive is high for WG members to convert to HGVC because it will allow them easy access to HGVC properties in Hawaii.  I am sure this will be use as a selling point.   I for one don't think its a good deal for us current members of HGVC because it will be more difficult to book stays in Hawaii.  Hilton needs to expand their resort collection outside of Las Vegas......



Regardless of what current owners do, the impact on the system from new sales alone could be pretty big.  There are 1201 units in the PH Tower (less than 20% of which have been sold)...that remaining inventory completely dwarfs any other resort in the system (as a point of comparison, the Grand Waikikian is only 331 units).  If HGVC gets sales traction, we could see a LOT of new members competing for space at other resorts.  When you consider the THREE other resorts they already have in Las Vegas, that makes the system look VERY Vegas heavy....they need to balance out a bit.


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## Larry

Just got this email so I  guess Westgate is still very much involved with Planet Hollywood;

"A new symbol of luxury glows above it all. PH Towers Westgate, the new hotel tower seamlessly connected to Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino, offers world-class accommodations. 

Guests unwind in an oversized spa tub. At the touch of a button, 
the luxury living room of the one-bedroom suite becomes
a giant media room with an HD projector and an 8 ft. screen. Guests may
also dine in the full-size kitchen with stainless steel appliances...
all the while contemplating whether to go out or stay in forever. 

Escape the Ordinary. Experience the Extraordinary. PH Towers Westgate."


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## pianodinosaur

dougp26364 said:


> I think what he meant when he said "get out of the same three states" was to get out of Nevada (now 4 resorts in Las Vegas), FL and Hawaii. It seems that HGVC concentrates the majority of their resorts in those popular vacation destination locations with very little varity in other locations. Before the economy collapsed HGVC has plans to build an additional Las Vegas resort out by Lake Las Vegas. I much prefer this option to the original plan or, for that matter, to even completing the final two towers of the north strip project. I would still have prefered something other than another Las Vegas resort where the sales mantra will be "buy here and trade into Hawaii."
> 
> When we originally joined in 2002 (or somewhere in that timeframe), the only other US option was Colorado. The only other additions of states besides NV, FL and HW have been SC and NY. It's been a lack of variety in loctaions that kept us from expanding out HGVC ownership interests while we did increase ownership interests with other timeshare groups.



The 2012 Member Guide, which is still a work in progress, now includes additional Club Intrawest Resorts in Ontario and Vancouver.  We had an excellent time at Club Intrawest Whistler for our anniversay several years ago.  We almost went to Club Intrawest in Mexico this year but decided upon a cruise instead.


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## Ernie

*Westgate PH towers LV. turning into Hilton? [MERGED]*

I am a owner at WG PH Towers in LV and I got a letter today stating the sale fo the assets of the PH towers to Resort Finance America and that Hilton will be responsible for future timeshare sales on behalf of Resort LV Tower 52, LLC.

Does anyone else know about this? Also the HOA name as changed to LV Tower 52 Condominium Owners Association, INC.


http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/nov/22/ph-towers-westgate-planet-hollywood-has-new-owner/


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## dougp26364

See this thread on the Western forums. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159389


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## ocdb8r

Please do tell us anything else of interest in the letter.  I think we're curious if there is any indication on timing and how the resort will be managed moving forward.  Esepecially curious to hear what they are telling existing owners...


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## timeos2

ocdb8r said:


> Please do tell us anything else of interest in the letter.  I think we're curious if there is any indication on timing and how the resort will be managed moving forward.  Esepecially curious to hear what they are telling existing owners...



We attended the Wastegate owners meeting earlier this month. At the meeting they announced that they were no longer part of the LV project. It is, as expected, likely that Hilton now has management responsibilities there and I'll wager that Wastegate owners are going to find themselves orphans at what had been "their" resort. Plus Hilton is likely to put the pressure on to "upgrade" them to their program.  Good luck. This place was dubbed "The Planet Hollywood Tower of Terror" for good reason. I feel sorry for those that got sucked in to the Wastegate pitch.


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## rrlongwell

timeos2 said:


> ... they were no longer part of the LV project ...



What is the LV project, is it the Westgate system similar to the Wyndham program that lets you go to other resorts in the system?  In another words the Westgate owners no longer can trade through that system and now have to use trading companies?


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## ocdb8r

timeos2 said:


> We attended the Wastegate owners meeting earlier this month. At the meeting they announced that they were no longer part of the LV project. It is, as expected, likely that Hilton now has management responsibilities there and I'll wager that Wastegate owners are going to find themselves orphans at what had been "their" resort. Plus Hilton is likely to put the pressure on to "upgrade" them to their program.  Good luck. This place was dubbed "The Planet Hollywood Tower of Terror" for good reason. I feel sorry for those that got sucked in to the Wastegate pitch.



Well, this may indeed be an "out" for those that got sucked into Wastegate.  Hilton's "upgrade" fees in the past have been reasonable and so I'd consider it a good option for many.  While HGVC doesn't cover all the places Wastegate did, they are a much more reputable and upstanding Timeshare developer (alas, they are STILL a timeshare developer).


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## timeos2

rrlongwell said:


> What is the LV project, is it the Westgate system similar to the Wyndham program that lets you go to other resorts in the system?  In another words the Westgate owners no longer can trade through that system and now have to use trading companies?



They do allow very expensive (for what you get) internal trades and the few unit weeks they now end up with rights to (only those that some poor buyer unwisely actually bought from them) will remain available to other Wastegate owners if they are offered as available by the owners until or unless those owners opt to upgrade (a rare case where the term truly applies if it allows you to escape the Wastegate world of pain!) to the Hilton system.  But it's a small number to start with - sales were TERRIBLE which is why they had to sell it off even with what is reported to be a huge loss - so the number available will also be very small.  If I had bought there and had the chance to upgrade to Hilton - even at more cost - I'd take it in thirty seconds just to get out from under the Wastegate nightmare.  

Those who got talked into a purchase were royally shafted but that was a given from the day the Wastegate name was announced for that monstrosity.


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## rrlongwell

timeos2 said:


> ...



Thanks for the info.


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## Ernie

It also says that The Association has entered into a new Association Affiliation Agreement with Interval International, Inc. to ensure that all persons who purchased their timeshare interestes in the Resort from Westgate wil continue to enjoy their reciprocal exchange privileges at other Interval -Affiliated Timeshare resorts.


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## thehomebrewer

I bought into this property in 2010 and have heard nothing but negative things from users of this service about this property and Westgate since. I think everyone is wrong. This is a premium property in a premium location and now will carry a premium brand with the changeover to HGVC (which is old news as Resort Finance America took over in November '11). I recently visited over the MLK jr. weekend and had absolutely no hassles with my visit, check in, or check out. Westgate never "managed" this property. They only developed it and put their name on the top of the building. The hotel operations were always, and will likely continue to be, under the management arm of the Caesars group which owns and operates that part of the strip (Flamingo, Caesars, Ballys, Paris, Planet Hollywood, etc.). Westgate, as Hilton will be, was in charge of selling the units which as we know have not sold. With the current economic situation, they may never be sold and the property will go on as hotel/time share combo. This does not increase maintenance fees for owners as hotel users pay a premium price to stay at this property and their bills reflect as such. This was, never will be and hopefully never was perceived by anyone as a a nice, quiet, vacation spot to take the family. (Vegas is not Orlando, Myrtle Beach, or Hawaii although it can be just as trashy and touristy.) This is likely the only timeshare that will ever give you the opportunity to earn your money back while offering free cocktails during your stay, as it is connected directly to a casino. My advice to anyone who bought here is to watch Rainman, get yourself a deck of cards, read Stanford Wong's "Blackjack Secrets," practice and go work the tables at Planet Hollywood for a few hours during your visit. Get yourself a Rewards too, so you can eat for free all weekend. In just the 3 years I have owned this property, I have earned nearly 60% of the cost at the tables all while drinking and eating for free during my visits.


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## timeos2

The very best thing that could happen to the Tower of Terror was that somehow Wastegate be run out of the picture.  It has occurred now and going forward with Hilton should take it to the best it can be.  The only issues are likely to be focused on the relative handful of buyers that are under the Wastegate banner. They are likely to find a limited inventory and "second class" stats as the vast majority become Hilton members.  It won't happen overnght as right now there is a humongous unsold inventory they will assign anyway they can but as that dries up or Hilton uses it for their rentals & comps the Wastgaters will be left with a small block that will get snapped up quickly each use year. 

My advice to all Wastegate owners is to seriously consider any reasonable offer to convert to Hilton.  They may not offer it forever and if you stick with Wastegate you will ultimately regret it. That's just history and it does repeat.


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## Ernie

I finally figured out how to scan the text off the letters. This is the letter from the new HOA.


LV TOWER 52 
CONDOMINIUM OWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC. 
(FORMERLY PLANET HOLLYWOOD TOWERS BY WESTGATE 
CONDOMINIUM OWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC.) 
GENERAL NOTIFICATION 

Dear Member, 

On November 21, 2011, LV Tower 52, LLC, an affiliate of Resort Finance America, LLC (“RFA”), a company with significant assets and experience in the timeshare industry, acquired Planet Hollywood Towers by Westgate, a Vacation Ownership Resort (the “Resort”). 

Effective November 21, 2011, LV Tower 52 Management Co., LLC, an affiliate of RFA, has taken over management responsibilities for the Resort and the Association. In conjunction with the management change, the 2012 annual maintenance fee billing accompanying this correspondence will reflect new payment instructions. Please take note of these changes prior to making your payment. Also, please note that all payments relating to any outstanding mortgage financing pertaining to your timeshare interest will continue to be made as you have done so in the past. Current owners who purchased from Westgate Planet Hollywood Las Vegas, LLC (“Westgate”) should continue to make reservations for usage of their timeshare interests under the same process they have used in the past until further notice. 

Effective December 15, 2011, the legal name of the Association has been modified from “Planet Hollywood Towers by Westgate Condominium Owners Association, Inc.” to “LV Tower 52 Condominium Owners Association, Inc.” This change was required as part of the shift from Westgate to LV Tower 52, LLC and the termination of Westgate’s licensing agreement with Planet Hollywood International, Inc. (“PHIl”). The licensing agreement with PHIl was terminated in conjunction with the execution of a Sales & Marketing Agreement with Hilton Resorts Corporation (“Hilton”), which will be responsible for future sales of timeshare interests in the Resort on LV Tower 52, LLC’s behalf. The Resort will also be rebranded as a Hilton Grand Vacations timeshare resort. Finally, the Association has entered into a new Association Affiliation Agreement with Interval International, Inc. (“Interval”) to ensure that all persons who purchased their timeshare interests in the Resort from Westgate will continue to enjoy their reciprocal exchange privileges at other Interval-affiliated timeshare resorts. 

A Special Meeting of the members of the Association shall be held on January 26, 2012, beginning at 9:00 am at the Resort, located at 80 E. Harmon Avenue Las Vegas, NV 89109. The purpose of the Special Meeting is for the members of the Association to ratify the 2012 proposed budget, a copy of which is enclosed herewith for your review. You may attend the Special Meeting in person and vote at the meeting or you may vote by proxy by submitting the enclosed Proxy Form to the Secretary of the Association (Clifton Dugas) at or before the Special Meeting. Instructions for sending the Proxy Form to the Secretary are included on the Proxy Form. Ratification of the proposed budget will be the only business conducted at the Special Meeting. 

Our collective goal is to make the transition as smooth as possible while continuing to allow you to enjoy the full ownership rights and benefits associated with your original purchase from Westgate. Additional correspondence will be forthcoming to provide owners with periodic updates regarding operations and improvements to the Resort. 

Sincerely, 
William T. Phillips 
President 
LV Tower 52 Condominium Owners Association, Inc.


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## Ernie

This is the one from Westgate.



Dear Valued Westgate Owner, 

I am pleased to announce that 2011 has been a great year for the Westgate family. We all know what is happening in the global economy, but Westgate continues to outperform the vacation ownership industry and has once again been recognized as the #1 producer of new timeshare owners by Interval International. We believe this is due to the quality of our resorts and the tremendous value we provide our owners. We could not have done this without the support of our existing Westgate owners. 

The major challenge that our company faced during the past several years was limited access to the capital markets in order to provide financing for our timeshare buyers and support growth of our company and resorts. I am happy to announce that we have successfully obtained financing by working cooperatively with our existing lenders to implement a plan that will ensure the future success of this company. As part of this transaction we sold our remaining interest at our PH Towers Westgate Project in Las Vegas, Nevada to Resort Finance America (RFA). The sale of this inventory will have no effect on current PH Towers Westgate timeshare owners who will continue to enjoy their full ownership rights and benefits as a Westgate owner at this and other Westgate Resorts properties. 

I have attached a letter from the new owner of the remaining interests at this project. As you may be aware, Harrah’s was managing the operations of PH Towers Westgate under a management agreement with Westgate. As noted in the attached letter, RFA will be rebranding the property as a Hilton Grand Vacation Resort and will be hiring Hilton to perform the management operations of the property. We are confident that Hilton’s role as resort manager will actually improve the quality of your resort experience. Again, this will have no effect on your ownership as a member of the Westgate family of resorts. Please be advised of the following: 

1) If you have an outstanding mortgage balance, there is no change to your payment instructions. Please continue to make your payments as normal. 
2) The attached letter outlines the new payment instructions for your maintenance and tax billing. Please read this carefully and follow these instructions to insure your payment is properly received and processed. 
3) You will continue to make your reservations through Westgate as you have done in the past. At some point in the future we will be streamlining and automating the reservation process in coordination with the new property manager (Hilton). You will be notified of this change well in advance. 
4) You will continue to enjoy your rights to exchange to all other Westgate Resort locations, and there are no changes to any of the existing exchange procedures. In addition, there are no changes to any exchange benefits related to any memberships that you may have with Interval International. 

If you have any questions about these changes, please call your Westgate Owner Relations team at 800-925-9999. 

We believe that memorable vacations that last a lifetime should be the hallmark of your ownership experience with Westgate Resorts. We are committed to not only meeting your expectations of service, but also exceeding them each time you contact or stay with us. Thank you for being a part of our family and we encourage you to take advantage of all of the vacation opportunities that we have to 
offer. 

Yours Truly, 
David Siegel
Chairman of the Board, President and CEO 
Westgate Resorts


----------



## dougp26364

timeos2 said:


> They do allow very expensive (for what you get) internal trades and the few unit weeks they now end up with rights to (only those that some poor buyer unwisely actually bought from them) will remain available to other Wastegate owners if they are offered as available by the owners until or unless those owners opt to upgrade (a rare case where the term truly applies if it allows you to escape the Wastegate world of pain!) to the Hilton system.  But it's a small number to start with - sales were TERRIBLE which is why they had to sell it off even with what is reported to be a huge loss - so the number available will also be very small.  If I had bought there and had the chance to upgrade to Hilton - even at more cost - I'd take it in thirty seconds just to get out from under the Wastegate nightmare.
> 
> Those who got talked into a purchase were royally shafted but that was a given from the day the Wastegate name was announced for that monstrosity.



It may be possible that Westgate owners can become affiliated members with HGVC as has been done with other affiliated resorts in the past. Those who become affiliated members have paid a relatively small joiner fee (use to be in the $600 range), continue to enjoy the benefits of ownership through their original purchase and gain the opportunity to convert their weeks to HGVC points to be used in the HGVC system. Of course, electing to convert their week to HGVC points releases that inventory into the HGVC available units pool and removes that unit from Westgates availability. It would also change external exchange options from I.I. to RCI. 

If HGVC offers affiliation membership vs a total transfer of Westgate ownership rights to HGVC ownership rights, it would be a blessing for current Westgate owners who don't want to upgrade through an additional developer priced purchase. 

For that matter, we don't even know if there will be an option to convert a Westgate owned week into a HGVC owned week. Since one would be literally going from one timeshare company to another, I would imagine it would be much more complicated than just upgrading from one HGVC owned week to a larger week (EOY to EY, 1 bedroom to 2 bedroom or from a Vegas owned week to a HHV owned week).

On a personal note, I'm looking forward to seeing HGVC inventory available to HGVC members to reserve at PHT. We prefer the south strip location, I like the idea it's attached to PH resort/casino and I really want to see the units in PHT. I just never wanted to be exposed to the sales weasels/tactics that a Westgate property can put guests through. It took 4 or 5 years from them to stop calling us after our exchange into Westgate Town Center back in 2000. We had avoided exchanging into Westgate resorts after that time, although we did exchange into Westgate Branson Woods a few years ago and didn't have to suffer through the sales calls we both feared post vacation.


----------



## timeos2

Also note that the previous claims that management "would remain the same" once again (like most of the other claims about this resort/management dating back to the original announcements) are wrong. The management has been changed from Harrah's to Hilton (I'm not deriding that - it most likely is another improvement like the move away from Wastegate).  One thing this has is bad luck continuing the long history of failures at that location.  Maybe Hilton can finally be the name to turn it around.  I just feel sorry for those left stuck with Wastegate as an orphan group in the resort they once nearly went belly up trying to build.


----------



## Ernie

I dont know much about Timeshare ownership but doesnt a deed at the Towers mean I own a week there ( ours is paid off) no matter who it gets transferred to? 

The wife and I stayed there in March of 2011 and I have to say it was pretty nice. But it's geared towards the younger crowd, say 20's 30's. We loved the location and the convenience to local stores. But if Im offered a way out in the future I will take it if it doesnt cost a fortune. Maybe Hilton will make an offer to Westgate owners.


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## timeos2

Ernie said:


> I dont know much about Timeshare ownership but doesnt a deed at the Towers mean I own a week there ( ours is paid off) no matter who it gets transferred to?
> 
> The wife and I stayed there in March of 2011 and I have to say it was pretty nice. But it's geared towards the younger crowd, say 20's 30's. We loved the location and the convenience to local stores. But if Im offered a way out in the future I will take it if it doesnt cost a fortune. Maybe Hilton will make an offer to Westgate owners.



Yes, you own the right to use a week there each use year.  They can't take it away but if enough negative changes are made they can easily make you wish you didn't own it. I really hope Hilton offers all the WG owners a very low cost way to transfer - that would be the best thing for you now. Resale value, especially for the WG units, is near zero despite the original high cost.


----------



## dougp26364

Ernie said:


> I dont know much about Timeshare ownership but doesnt a deed at the Towers mean I own a week there ( ours is paid off) no matter who it gets transferred to?
> 
> The wife and I stayed there in March of 2011 and I have to say it was pretty nice. But it's geared towards the younger crowd, say 20's 30's. We loved the location and the convenience to local stores. But if Im offered a way out in the future I will take it if it doesnt cost a fortune. Maybe Hilton will make an offer to Westgate owners.



If you're thinking HGVC might want to buy your week from you as a way out, that won't happen. HGVC might offer you an affiiliated membership in the club or and offer to "upgrade" to a more expensive unit. Either way you'll still own your timeshare.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

timeos2 said:


> Also note that the previous claims that management "would remain the same" once again (like most of the other claims about this resort/management dating back to the original announcements) are wrong.


Does that include the assertion by some that buying fixed week 52 in the Penthouse unit would throw off oodles of cash through rentals and ultimately appreciation?


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## timeos2

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Does that include the assertion by some that buying fixed week 52 in the Penthouse unit would throw off oodles of cash through rentals and ultimately appreciation?



I like it!  Sometimes it would be interesting to hear the spin today from past posts gone wrong.  After all how else would we know of the "Greatest Timeshare In The World™"?


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## jeffox

*Westgate Tower of Terror Las Vegas*



timeos2 said:


> I like it!  Sometimes it would be interesting to hear the spin today from past posts gone wrong.  After all how else would we know of the "Greatest Timeshare In The World™"?



Didn't that guy pay $90K too?


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## STEVIE

Hi everyone, I posted yesterday under "exchanging" with questions about Las Vegas and this property. I saw this thread today, so I hope to have a few questions answered here.I confirmed today a confirmation for August 2013 into Planet Hollywood for a two bedroom unit. We are a family of four, and after reading this thread I'm not sure if this resort is family friendly. Our sons will be ages 20, and 16 when we take this trip.I did take out insurance so if this would not be a good choice I can look for something else. We plan to go to shows and explore attractions such as Hoover Dam. From what I read the resort is in a good locaton on the strip, we have never been to Vegas, so I'm not familiar with what is good or not. Any comments on the pool area? Is a car necessary, or can we rent a car on a daily basis when we want to explore? Any advise is truly appreciated. Thanks, Sue


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## timeos2

susgar said:


> Hi everyone, I posted yesterday under "exchanging" with questions about Las Vegas and this property. I saw this thread today, so I hope to have a few questions answered here.I confirmed today a confirmation for August 2013 into Planet Hollywood for a two bedroom unit. We are a family of four, and after reading this thread I'm not sure if this resort is family friendly. Our sons will be ages 20, and 16 when we take this trip.I did take out insurance so if this would not be a good choice I can look for something else. We plan to go to shows and explore attractions such as Hoover Dam. From what I read the resort is in a good locaton on the strip, we have never been to Vegas, so I'm not familiar with what is good or not. Any comments on the pool area? Is a car necessary, or can we rent a car on a daily basis when we want to explore? Any advise is truly appreciated. Thanks, Sue



The location is good - but no better than the Marriott, Polo Towers and only two blocks from the much more family friendly Wyndham Grand Desert. The attachment to the casino, not one of the top casino's, is not a family friendly thing. The "takeover" by the younger crowd is a fact Thurs - Saturday weekly.  If you don't like the noise & rather rowdy type behavior  that entails then again, not a good family choice.  There is also the negative that if you go through WG - not Hilton - then you are dealing with a now orphaned group of a limited number of units that, in all likelihood, no one will be especially careful about taking car of as the real push will be the improved units Hilton will be trying to sell. 

Overall, and especially for a younger family, there are much better choices in the immediate area (which is perhaps the best launching point for visiting the strip if you plan to stay in a timeshare).   The location is not the issue. The clientele and WG are.


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## heathpack

timeos2 said:


> The location is good - but no better than the Marriott, Polo Towers and only two blocks from the much more family friendly Wyndham Grand Desert. The attachment to the casino, not one of the top casino's, is not a family friendly thing. The "takeover" by the younger crowd is a fact Thurs - Saturday weekly.  If you don't like the noise & rather rowdy type behavior  that entails then again, not a good family choice.  There is also the negative that if you go through WG - not Hilton - then you are dealing with a now orphaned group of a limited number of units that, in all likelihood, no one will be especially careful about taking car of as the real push will be the improved units Hilton will be trying to sell.
> 
> Overall, and especially for a younger family, there are much better choices in the immediate area (which is perhaps the best launching point for visiting the strip if you plan to stay in a timeshare).   The location is not the issue. The clientele and WG are.



Have to strongly disagree here.  We don't really gamble, we don't drink to excess (well not very often), we are mostly in Vegas to dine, see shows and gawk at the hotels.

We loved PH.  Thought the location was superb and definitely better'n the nearby Marriott.  I don't recall ever even entering the casino, it seems to me we walked thru the shopping mall to get to the strip.  It is also very easy to exit the building onto Harmon St by walking thru the mall.  We drove to our destination at times as well.

Did not visit the pool area to swim (we were there in Dec), so can't comment except to say it looked very nice- way nicer than the tiny Marriott rooftop pool.

We had a minor problem with our washer/dryer while we were there, mgmt was very responsive.  We also requested our mid-week cleaning on Tuesday instead of Monday.  But maid came Monday by mistake, we had to interact with front desk to get that rescheduled and that went very smoothly.  And finally, the concierge was very helpful to us when we needed to get something printed out and had nowhere to do so.  We mention all this because we were worried about Westgates reputation, but has ZERO issues with mgmt.

We would stay again at PH in a heartbeat.  The rooms are awesome- totally over-the-top Vegas fabulous.  Loved the huge projection TV, the image looked great if you viewed an HD channel.

Just to give you a contrasting point of view.

H


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## STEVIE

Thank you for your responses. I am really excited to go to Vegas, I have alot of research to do! When is the best time to reserve the shows? Sue


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## dwojo

The more popular shows sell out early. 7 to 10 days should work for most of the popular shows. Decide what you want to see and look at availability online.


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## Ron98GT

timeos2 said:


> The location is good - but no better than the Marriott, Polo Towers and only two blocks from the much more family friendly Wyndham Grand Desert. The attachment to the casino, not one of the top casino's, is not a family friendly thing. The "takeover" by the younger crowd is a fact Thurs - Saturday weekly.  If you don't like the noise & rather rowdy type behavior  that entails then again, not a good family choice.  There is also the negative that if you go through WG - not Hilton - then you are dealing with a now orphaned group of a limited number of units that, in all likelihood, no one will be especially careful about taking car of as the real push will be the improved units Hilton will be trying to sell.
> 
> Overall, and especially for a younger family, there are much better choices in the immediate area (which is perhaps the best launching point for visiting the strip if you plan to stay in a timeshare).   The location is not the issue. The clientele and WG are.



Unless you have really young kids and you want to spend all of your time at the WGD, stick with PH, which IS on the strip.  WGD is at Harmon & Koval.  It may look like 2-blocks on a map, but it's NOT 2 city blocks, it's a 1/2 mile hike back to the strip from the WGD.   I don't think you want your kids hiking along Harmon OR Koval Lane: stay ON the strip.

http://www.lvmpd.com/crimeviewcommunity/wizard.asp

Interesting web site by Las Vegas Metro Police.  Type in the cross streets of Koval & Harmon. Then select 1/2 mile, which covers a radius of 1/2 mile.  The 1/2 mile is the distance between Koval and the LV strip, as indicated on the LVMPD map.


----------



## Ernie

The wife and I stayed there last March and had a pretty good time. Easy to get to the other hotels and shows, we walked to everything. There is a CVS and a Walgreens a block away which is nice. It was a younger crowd and the Casino is geared towards the younger crowd also with dancers on tables throughout the casino. The pool is nice but mostly a wading pool about 3ft to 4ft deep. But I think most of the pools in Vegas are like this.

It you see any of the shows in the MGM and some other hotels I forget which ones you can join the club for free and get 40% off the shows there which is a great deal. I booked all of our shows right through the hotels where they were showing and got the best deals.

We talked to a couple who rented a car for a day while there and they said it was great. The car company just dropped the car off and picked it up when they were done.


----------



## econmark

My wife and I fell for the Tower sales pitch a few years ago and got a 2 brdm unit for Fri, Sat, and Sun nights every other year. We used it last year shortly after it opened and again this last weekend (split the studio lockout and Deluxe room into 2 stays). We actually really like the place, it's close to everything and we haven't been bothered by noise. Just lucky I guess. If you don't count the initial 12K buy-in, I think we're getting our $400 every-other-year maintenance fees worth.
Here's my dilemna: I haven't received any notice from the new owners, but Westgate is telling me I owe them the 2012 maintenance fees, which must be paid before I book any more reservations. At this point I don't know who is running the place, who should get the maintenance fees, or if we will ever be offered an upgrade to HGVC (which I would love since I've never liked Westgate). Apparently there was a big meeting of the new/old owners last week sometime, but I haven't heard what, if anything, came out of it. 
Anyone here heard anything about the outcome, or are there any other owners reading this that have received notices from Westgate or the new owners lately?


----------



## billinlv

econmark said:


> ... Apparently there was a big meeting of the new/old owners last week sometime, but I haven't heard what, if anything, came out of it.
> Anyone here heard anything about the outcome, or are there any other owners reading this that have received notices from Westgate or the new owners lately?



We own a 2 bedroom timeshare at the towers and have enjoyed staying there.  We were staying somewhere else 1/11-28/12 and heard about the meeting last Thursday.  

The wife and I attended the meeting.  The purpose of the meeting was to ratify the 2012 proposed budget and that was completed pretty quickly.  The group early on said they would stay and answer questions and they did for probably an hour.

In attendance were 4 board new members that were from RFA who took back the building from Westgate.  Westgate doesn't have anything to do with the bulding anymore and Westgate was not in attendance at the meeting.  

There were roughly 8 to 10 Westgate PH Tower owners in attendance.  There was one Hilton Grand Vacations employee.  His name is Neil Hutchinson, Vice President Association Management Services.

We were told that just days before the contract was signed with Hilton to run the operation of the building and all affiliations with Planet Hollywood and Caesars Entertainment have or will be terminated once Hilton takes over.  Some employees will become Hilton employees.

The PH Towers Westgate signage will start to come down in the next few weeks. They didn't know exactly or couldn't tell us what name will be on top but there will be something there.  At no cost to timeshare owners, RFA will pay for any upgrades or changes to signage and decor.  They said carpet and glass tops in the rooms may change to something that does not show things so easily.

Hilton will begin selling the timeshares there probably in July 2012.

The new association has entered into an affiliation with II so there will be a dual affiliation as Hilton uses RCI.

It sounded that any Westgate timeshare owner that is also a member of II will not be offered a chance to affiliate with HGVC.  Any that aren't II members may have a chance to join with Hilton without buying a new package.

There was an owner in attendance that asked how they might be able to sell their timeshare.  The Hilton employee actually said Timeshare Users Group and a few others.  I spoke up and gave out the tug2.net website.  I also told the Hilton rep that on TUG Wyndham and Hilton have very good feedback and that us Westgate owners would like to join with Hilton.

In the future Westgate Tower timeshare owners will be given a special toll free number for reservations and it will be going to the Hilton call centers.  Also more information will be communicated as they know more.

As far as paying your 2012 association dues we were told you can pay on the Westgate online site or at the new address that was sent with the proxy form.  I paid mine on the Westgate site today.  I had to call them because the 2012 budget had one figure and the Westgate site had a figure like $32 higher.  After calling Westgate it was explained that this amount is for the property taxes which don't show on the budget.

Anyway, I didn't take notes so I'm doing this by memory so hopefully I've covered any owner's questions.

Bill
Jax, FL


----------



## Ernie

Billinjax I dont understand this part of your post.

*It sounded that any Westgate timeshare owner that is also a member of II will not be offered a chance to affiliate with HGVC. Any that aren't II members may have a chance to join with Hilton without buying a new package.
*
I have an account with II but I have never used II in anyway yet. Do you know how this would affect someone in my situation? I have odd years so I cant even use my week until 2013.


----------



## STEVIE

Hi, if I have a confirmation for Aug. 2013, will it be honored if Hilton takes over? I booked through Interval. Thanks, Sue


----------



## billinlv

Ernie said:


> ...I have an account with II but I have never used II in anyway yet.



My opinion is if you're not using II then don't renew your membership until you see what might be offered.  

Regarding current reservations.  Using my 2012 week, I have two reservations (split the lockout) in October 2012 previously confirmed and they said at the meeting that there would be no changes to already confirmed reservations.  

I also carried over my 2011 week and have been wanting to book for June 2012.  When I called Westgate about the difference in the maintenance amounts yesterday at the end of the call I mentioned how I was waiting until 60 days out to do a June reservation because it was my 2011 carryover week.  The agent checked with her inventory people and they went and did the booking for me.  So no complaints with Westgate.

Bill
Jax, FL


----------



## dougp26364

susgar said:


> Hi, if I have a confirmation for Aug. 2013, will it be honored if Hilton takes over? I booked through Interval. Thanks, Sue



You'll be fine. HGVC appears to be taking over the unsold inventory. The inventory sold by Westgate appears to be staying with Westgate and that inventory will also remain for exchange with I.I.


----------



## heathpack

What is RFA?

Are you sure the plan is dual affiliation (as opposed to some units being deposit able in RCI- the Hilton ones- and the previous Westgate units being deposit able in II?).

This is the first I heard that Westgate was totally out of PH.  Thought they were to retain their currently sold units?

H



billinjax said:


> We own a 2 bedroom timeshare at the towers and have enjoyed staying there.  We were staying somewhere else 1/11-28/12 and heard about the meeting last Thursday.
> 
> The wife and I attended the meeting.  The purpose of the meeting was to ratify the 2012 proposed budget and that was completed pretty quickly.  The group early on said they would stay and answer questions and they did for probably an hour.
> 
> In attendance were 4 board new members that were from RFA who took back the building from Westgate.  Westgate doesn't have anything to do with the bulding anymore and Westgate was not in attendance at the meeting.
> 
> There were roughly 8 to 10 Westgate PH Tower owners in attendance.  There was one Hilton Grand Vacations employee.  His name is Neil Hutchinson, Vice President Association Management Services.
> 
> We were told that just days before the contract was signed with Hilton to run the operation of the building and all affiliations with Planet Hollywood and Caesars Entertainment have or will be terminated once Hilton takes over.  Some employees will become Hilton employees.
> 
> The PH Towers Westgate signage will start to come down in the next few weeks. They didn't know exactly or couldn't tell us what name will be on top but there will be something there.  At no cost to timeshare owners, RFA will pay for any upgrades or changes to signage and decor.  They said carpet and glass tops in the rooms may change to something that does not show things so easily.
> 
> Hilton will begin selling the timeshares there probably in July 2012.
> 
> The new association has entered into an affiliation with II so there will be a dual affiliation as Hilton uses RCI.
> 
> It sounded that any Westgate timeshare owner that is also a member of II will not be offered a chance to affiliate with HGVC.  Any that aren't II members may have a chance to join with Hilton without buying a new package.
> 
> There was an owner in attendance that asked how they might be able to sell their timeshare.  The Hilton employee actually said Timeshare Users Group and a few others.  I spoke up and gave out the tug2.net website.  I also told the Hilton rep that on TUG Wyndham and Hilton have very good feedback and that us Westgate owners would like to join with Hilton.
> 
> In the future Westgate Tower timeshare owners will be given a special toll free number for reservations and it will be going to the Hilton call centers.  Also more information will be communicated as they know more.
> 
> As far as paying your 2012 association dues we were told you can pay on the Westgate online site or at the new address that was sent with the proxy form.  I paid mine on the Westgate site today.  I had to call them because the 2012 budget had one figure and the Westgate site had a figure like $32 higher.  After calling Westgate it was explained that this amount is for the property taxes which don't show on the budget.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't take notes so I'm doing this by memory so hopefully I've covered any owner's questions.
> 
> Bill
> Jax, FL


----------



## billinlv

heathpack said:


> What is RFA?
> 
> Are you sure the plan is dual affiliation (as opposed to some units being deposit able in RCI- the Hilton ones- and the previous Westgate units being deposit able in II?).
> 
> This is the first I heard that Westgate was totally out of PH.  Thought they were to retain their currently sold units?
> 
> H



RFA is Resort Finance America, LLC.  This company held the Westgate debt for the property and when Westgate couldn't pay they took the building back.  They said they also finance the other parts of Westgate and with the elimination of the Tower that Westgate is properly financed for the future.

Current Westgate Tower timeshare owners can stay with Westgate and enjoy whatever benefits they had with Westgate.  We get 2 for 1 bonus weeks at other Westgate properties and that will continue.  Westgate doesn't own the building or manage it so that is why I said they didn't have anything to do with it anymore.


----------



## econmark

So I guess Westgate will still own the unit that I bought from them? It seems they would have to retain some ownership in order to book rooms. Maybe the rooms are held in some kind of II account and that's why they said II members could not switch to HGVC?


----------



## dougp26364

econmark said:


> So I guess Westgate will still own the unit that I bought from them? It seems they would have to retain some ownership in order to book rooms. Maybe the rooms are held in some kind of II account and that's why they said II members could not switch to HGVC?



They retain some rights. As far as ownership, Hilton now owns the building, you and Westgate retain the ownership rights to use the property sold by Westgate. 

With timeshare, you never really own anything except for a deeded right to use the property in perputuity. As a timeshare "owner", you don't actually own property, you own the space between the walls as a 1/52 interest. 

It's the concept of owning property vs the right to use a property for a specified period of time each year that trips people up. That's part of the reason timeshares don't have the same value as real estate. You don't actually own the real estate or any of the furniture, appliances for fixtures. You just own the right to time spent in a space.


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## Michelle_Eris

I found this on the LV Tower 52 condo owners association web page:


This information is current as of January 18, 2012.

President
David A Siegel
5601 Windhover Dr
Orlando, FL 32819
Change My Principals

http://www.nvannualreport.com/entities-DNPC-LV-TOWER-52-CONDOMINIUM-OWNERS-ASSOCIATION-INC.aspx

So apparently despite the change of ownership, westgate still runs the HOA.


----------



## billinlv

Michelle_Eris said:


> I found this on the LV Tower 52 condo owners association web page:
> 
> 
> This information is current as of January 18, 2012.
> 
> President
> David A Siegel
> 5601 Windhover Dr
> Orlando, FL 32819
> Change My Principals
> 
> http://www.nvannualreport.com/entities-DNPC-LV-TOWER-52-CONDOMINIUM-OWNERS-ASSOCIATION-INC.aspx
> 
> So apparently despite the change of ownership, westgate still runs the HOA.



I was at the meeting and the President of the association is with RFA.  In fact all of the HOA board was with RFA.


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## Ernie

Im getting calls now and its a recorded message saying its from Westgate with regards to my options letter?  They want me to call them back to discuss my options with a weasle representative. I never received an options letter and I dont intent to call them back.  Anyone else getting these calls that owns Westgate?


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## Ernie

Got a letter today that explains a lot. Here is the new website.

http://www.lvtower52association.com/


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## timeos2

Note that according to the published documents the Management fees were over $2 million dollars in 2010!  Does anyone think that was a good value to the owners?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

timeos2 said:


> Note that according to the published documents the Management fees were over $2 million dollars in 2010!  Does anyone think that was a good value to the owners?



Depends on what owners you're referring to.  I'm sure the owners of the management company found it of great value.


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## pgnewarkboy

*Its a great location*

Just came back from DRI Polo Towers which is basically next door to Planet Hollywood.  It is a great location.  You can basically walk to all the action.  Vegas is a tremendous vacation spot. Many People who want to go to Vegas every year or so will find the location irresistible.


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## scottz

Here is the story as I know it. Resort Finance America was the company who provided financing to Westgate to build the property. Westgate could not make the loan payments and the RFA ended up foreclosing on the property bank in November 2011. RFA is now the real owner of the property and has entered into an agreement with Hilton Grand Vacations Club to rebrand the property and upgrade it to Hilton standards. The name of the property changed to Elara a Hilton Grand Vacations Club on March 1, 2012 and Hilton now manages the property for the bank. There are no timeshare sales at the resort today but Hilton is going to try and sell additional time shares there starting within the next 90 days. If it is true that there are only 12,000 time share owners at the former Westgate property then it is a good move for Hilton as they will now be able to open up a highly desirable resort location to their vacation club members. The million dollar question is will Hilton allow curent Westgate owners to join the HGVC family and convert their deeded week to a points based system? I am sure that HGVC at some point will want to try and lure Westgate owners into their own Hilton name brand family. This is a change process that is now starting and I am sure that full details will be available from Hilton before the end of 2012. It just shows you that time share sales are very low right now and it would be in the best interests of HGVC to find a way to work with and embrace the Westgate owners to have them join the Hilton family.


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## dougp26364

There is no doubt in my mind that HGVC will offer the Westgate owners some way into the HGVC family, either by upgrading their ownership or through a simple fee affiliate program.

FWIW, we were in Vegas staying at Polo Towers last week. The Westgate name has already been removed from the property.


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## TomR

We have an exchange into the Elara in May. The units look good, but I have a question.  Does the timeshare have its own pool separate from the Planet Hollywood Hotel pool? If so, how is it?


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## dougp26364

TomR said:


> We have an exchange into the Elara in May. The units look good, but I have a question.  Does the timeshare have its own pool separate from the Planet Hollywood Hotel pool? If so, how is it?



It does. I've never been in it so I can't comment on how it is.


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## TomR

Thanks Doug.  Looking forward to our visit there.


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## Apollo30

I am an owner of a 2 bed PHT unit bought pre-construction from Westgate.
The contract stated that I could exchange for 2 for 1 with Westgate properties.
Indeed as I write this I am staying for 2 weeks in Orlando at Westgate Lakes in a 2 bed unit.
I just endured the 2 hour sales pitch and when I queried the continuation of this 2 for 1 benefit of purchasing PHT and the letter stating Westgate owners would continue to receive former benefits, I was told by a Westgate manager that this was no longer the case.
Therefore I believe I have been mis-sold a product and if this turns out to be true then are there lawyers operating on a "no win no fee" basis that I could contact to demand a full refund for what I paid Westgate ?


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## Apollo30

*Very disappointing pool*



TomR said:


> We have an exchange into the Elara in May. The units look good, but I have a question.  Does the timeshare have its own pool separate from the Planet Hollywood Hotel pool? If so, how is it?



The pool is a paddling pool only and tends to be filled by young people standing in waist deep water swigging grossly overpriced beer. Sometimes there is blaring loud music blasting out. In my week staying here I never succeeded in getting a lounger round the pool and the cabanas were ridiculously priced per stay. Okay, if I wanted to step into the water at 10am the pool was quiet but when I as an owner wanted to use the pool it was packed as described and an awful experience. Ignore the description as a tropical oasis.


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## markymark

Apollo30 said:


> I am an owner of a 2 bed PHT unit bought pre-construction from Westgate.
> The contract stated that I could exchange for 2 for 1 with Westgate properties.
> Indeed as I write this I am staying for 2 weeks in Orlando at Westgate Lakes in a 2 bed unit.
> I just endured the 2 hour sales pitch and when I queried the continuation of this 2 for 1 benefit of purchasing PHT and the letter stating Westgate owners would continue to receive former benefits, I was told by a Westgate manager that this was no longer the case.
> Therefore I believe I have been mis-sold a product and if this turns out to be true then are there lawyers operating on a "no win no fee" basis that I could contact to demand a full refund for what I paid Westgate ?



I also own a 2 bedroom unit at PHT and am really angry to hear that the two for one week benefit has gone.


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## tschwa2

Apollo30 said:


> I am an owner of a 2 bed PHT unit bought pre-construction from Westgate.
> The contract stated that I could exchange for 2 for 1 with Westgate properties.
> Indeed as I write this I am staying for 2 weeks in Orlando at Westgate Lakes in a 2 bed unit.
> I just endured the 2 hour sales pitch and when I queried the continuation of this 2 for 1 benefit of purchasing PHT and the letter stating Westgate owners would continue to receive former benefits, I was told by a Westgate manager that this was no longer the case.
> Therefore I believe I have been mis-sold a product and if this turns out to be true then are there lawyers operating on a "no win no fee" basis that I could contact to demand a full refund for what I paid Westgate ?



Don't believe what a salesperson told you.  It doesn't matter if they had the title manager.  You need to check with the owner services and reservation department.  Let us know what you find out and try to get the answer in writing.


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## TomR

We just returned from an exchange into Elara.  Our 1 bedroom unit was beautiful, and we had not s single complaint about the unit itself.  We might have had one had we intended to cook in since there was but one small beat up paring knife in the kitchen drawer along with the regular assortment of butter knives and forks.  But we never used the kitchen except to get ice water from the fridge.

Apollo 30, a previous poster, was right on about the pool being overrun by young people. Could have mistaken it for the Hard Rock pool, but since we were staying for only four nights, we didn't intend to use the pool anyway.  In fact, the entire place was loaded with young people in their very early 20's since the units are rented out as hotel rooms.  We were expecting a lot of noise at night, but heard none at all.

We enjoyed the unit, loved its location, and hope to return there in a year or two. Since we made the exchange through II, I don't believe the 1 in 4 year restriction applies.


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## tonyvill

*hgvc and elara*

I'm a novice on timesharing but why wouldn't hgvc allow elara owners to convert? Assuming they charge a fee to do so they would walk away with some money. What's their downside? Is it dilution or more to it than that?


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## Ernie

Has anyone else who owns at Elara AKA PH Towers get and invitation from II to join 3yrs for only $99 since you own vacation time at Elara?  My account just expired and II sent me info to join 3yrs for $99 or 5yrs for $219


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## Apollo30

*Update on Planet Hollywood Towers / Elara ?*

As an owner I am keen to know if there are any FACTS about Westgate owners and their rights etc. since Siegel weasled his way out of the construction contract and left us high and dry.

Does anyone really know for sure the position of Westgate owners in relation to their deeded weeks in the Elara ?

Please do not comment if you are guessing or just bad mouthing Westgate.
This is a real situation involving thousands of owners who have paid tens of thousands of USD and are totally kept in the dark.

Where are the comments from the owners on this forum ?


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## timeos2

No comment just facts. 

Westgate remains the HOA for those owners. They hired Hilton to manage it for them. Your fees, reservations and use rules all remain with Westgate but administered on site by Hilton. You have no relationship with Hilton except for that management of the property.


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## tschwa2

What rights are you referring to?  You can still reserve your floating week.  You can still use your fixed week.  Is there any specific rights in your contract or included in your deed that you are worried about?  

Other than what is in your contract and in your deed you have no additional rights everything else is falls into the category of "special privileges and/or benefits" and are at the mercy of Westgate for those.


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## billinlv

I've attentded two meetings at Elara with HGVC (manages the property) and RFA (Resort Finance of America who owns the building).  The first one just before HGVC took over management in January 2012 and the last one March 2013.

Many things were discussed but here is something that I emailed another owner that I know.

At the meeting there were a few Westgate owners that were unhappy.  They were saying stuff like they had been promised a non smoking casino.  One young guy says he's paying 900 per month, I guess that includes a loan, and he couldn't check in on the day he wanted because of the Fri to Fri checkins so he had to pay for a few days extra as a rental.

I mentioned that Hilton Elara owners get 12 month priority and that we have 11 months and at some point our access would be secondary to them.  They said they would look into this and would make both owners the same.  They said it doesn't matter who sold us the timeshares, we are all considered equal owners.

I also told them that we had to pay the next years fees early when we book for the next year.  They acted like this was news to them.  They will look into it.

They are putting in the best Starbucks ever at the Elara entrance from the Miracle Mile Mall.  The area to the right.  The entrance there to Elara will be more secure with automatic electric opening doors.

The HGVC manager for all of the LV properties says that they plan to make Elara the 'Flagship Location for the Brand'.

Our fees only pay for operation of the timeshare.  10's of millions for the property upgrade to Hilton standards is being paid by Hilton and RFA (the owner of the building).  All timeshare units will be upgraded the same, no difference between Hilton and Westgate.

We met a Hilton owner of Elara that bought their timeshare from Hilton in Orlando.


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## Apollo30

Thanks but I was informed last week staying in Westgate Lakes that I am no longer a Westgate owner. I am definitely not a Hilton owner either so now in the ether. Currently PHT trades double value into other Westgate properties but worried that this will come to an end. That would be a breach of contract but who will test this if this owner benefit comes to an end ?


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## timeos2

billinjax said:


> Our fees only pay for operation of the timeshare.  10's of millions for the property upgrade to Hilton standards is being paid by Hilton and RFA (the owner of the building).  All timeshare units will be upgraded the same, no difference between Hilton and Westgate.
> .



While eventually this may be true for the foreseeable future it isn't the case. 

The new Hilton units to be sold to Hilton buyers will be the newly completed rooms (units created in unused space that Wesgate didn't complete. That makes up the vast majority of the building as Westgate sold only about 10% of it in their starcrossed time). 

Eventually they will get to that last 10% but until they do the old Westgate owners will get that inventory only - not the newer and much nicer Hilton quality units. And even then it will be Westgates call as to how much gets done as they, not Hilton, have to pay for it. Again Hilton just manages those units - it doesn't own/control them.  And as soon as the Hilton level units are available Hilton owners will not be assigned to the garish looking Westgate designed units. 

There are two classes of owners in the building. Those that have a future with Hilton and those stuck as sort-of owners of the old Westgate leftovers. That is not an ownership anyone would want now.  But a bunch of people were roped into a very bad purchase. Even worse than a "regular" undesirable Westgate one.


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## billinlv

timeos2 said:


> While eventually this may be true for the foreseeable future it isn't the case.
> .



John I really wish you would stop giving information on Elara.  You don't know what's going on.  You're supposed to be a moderator.  Why don't you just moderate and not comment on Elara.  You're a disgruntled prior Westgate owner and never owned this property.

Please contact Michael D. Anderson, HGVC General Manager Resort Operations / Las Vegas Area Resorts.  His email is micanderson@hgvc.com.  He'll confirm all units are being upgraded and there aren't separate Westgate and Hilton units.

I'm hoping you will come back one more time to apologize for giving out incorrect information.


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## jmzf1958

After contacting the management company at Hilton and and also the front desk staff at Elara a few months ago and inquiring as to Westgate owners and Elara owners units, I was told they are EXACTLY the same, they will all be updated according to Hilton standards, and there is no separate units or floors for Westgate owners as has been stated previously on this forum.   Quoting from Hilton Grand Vacations letter sent to me, "The resort operations, reservation services and association support for the Elara property is now provided by Hilton Grand Vacations."  I made a reservation through Hilton last year.  We were assigned a fabulous four bedroom suite overlooking the Eiffel tower.  

If Westgate owners would like to exchange into another Westgate or an Interval International exchange, we must begin with a reservation at Elara.  The only difference between Westgate owners and Hilton owners at Elara is the Westgate owners cannot do internal exchanges with Hilton Grand Vacations Club properties.   Westgate owners can only do internal exchanges with Westgate properties.  

  I, too, am tired of hearing John give out wrong information and badmouth Westgate every chance he gets.  He loves to make owners who bought at Westgate/Planet Hollywood/Elara feel bad about their purchase.   I've been reading his posts since I bought my property since 2007.  I think we can all agree that David Seigel from Westgate is not the most upstanding man, and apparently, John has had some issues with Westgate, but it's really time to give it a rest as far as the negative comments go.  It's unprofessional as a moderator, and this forum should not be used as a platform for his hatred of Westgate.  I would love to know where John gets his "facts" from, as he is not a Westgate/Elara owner.  Do you have some inside connection to someone who is telling you this stuff, and if so, who is it?  I'd really like to know.

I hope this helps the owners who purchased Elara through Westgate.  Don't worry. Everything is being run very well.  Enjoy your beautiful timeshare.


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## Rent_Share

you so want to self justify your purchase you posted it twice ?


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## jmzf1958

Obviously, I didn't mean to post twice, but now that you mention it, I think I will justify my purchase.  I've been very happy with it.  It rents at $850 a night and I've gotten some terrific exchanges.  No worries here!


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## billinlv

Rent_Share said:


> you so want to self justify your purchase you posted it twice ?



Hopefully your other 3,184 posts are more informative.

Actually I like your tag line, Wyndham (Developer) Employees serving on the Worldmark (any HOA) Board of Directors is a Conflict of Interest and Unethical.

This is exactly why I sold my 2 Jockey Club weeks last year.  The GEO Holiday people now have two executives on the timeshare board.  GEO is the one causing much anger with their tour of the property.


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## timeos2

jmzf1958 said:


> After contacting the management company at Hilton and and also the front desk staff at Elara a few months ago and inquiring as to Westgate owners and Elara owners units, I was told they are EXACTLY the same, they will all be updated according to Hilton standards, and there is no separate units or floors for Westgate owners as has been stated previously on this forum.   Quoting from Hilton Grand Vacations letter sent to me, "The resort operations, reservation services and association support for the Elara property is now provided by Hilton Grand Vacations."  I made a reservation through Hilton last year.  We were assigned a fabulous four bedroom suite overlooking the Eiffel tower.
> 
> If Westgate owners would like to exchange into another Westgate or an Interval International exchange, we must begin with a reservation at Elara.  The only difference between Westgate owners and Hilton owners at Elara is the Westgate owners cannot do internal exchanges with Hilton Grand Vacations Club properties.   Westgate owners can only do internal exchanges with Westgate properties.



I still have my long standing insiders at Wastegate and attend every annual meeting. Taking your "facts" from front desk or sales personnel is hardly the way to get reliable information. 

Yes, there are no dedicated floors of Waste vs Hilton - two doors next to each other may be two different styles as Hilton look units are brought on line. But be clear, Hilton is NOT selling Wastegate units to new Hilton buyers or owners. And while they may redo the old look penthouses or fancy 4 bedrooms there are no current plans to touch the existing Wastegate units & turn them into Hilton style. 

You are under the false impression that Hilton controls the old Wastegate units. They do not. There is a separate HOA for them that hired Hilton to manage them - but they answer to the thumb & control of the King. They make a big point of that each year when the Wastegate HOA for the former Tower of Terror convenes.  

When you hear of any plans to actually go in and retrofit to Hilton standards any WG units be sure to post it & where that word comes from. All the reliable information says that Hilton will only sell newly finished units while managing the old stuff.  Remember there are deeds to those units so they cannot go back & sell it to Hilton buyers and the old WG owners are NOT part of the Hilton operation. 

Even trying to resell what is now called Elara but with an old Wastegate deed is hard as there is no market whatsoever for it. Typical Wastegate operation but even worse than most. 

Sorry if that bothers those that got stuck in this. You should be angry. But at the King and his crooked court not the messengers.  Have you run into their resale weasels yet? If it's possible they may be even worse than the original sales group as they claim since the deeds they offer are resales there is no rescind period  or rights whatsoever. We've already had a number of posts from those caught in THAT new trap on this property. Best advice? Stay away from anything Wastegate. If you must deal with Elara be sure you are dealing only with the actual Hilton group and their units or you will regret it.


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## Rent_Share

jmzf1958 said:


> Obviously, I didn't mean to post twice, but now that you mention it, I think I will justify my purchase. I've been very happy with it. It rents at $850 a night and I've gotten some terrific exchanges. No worries here!


 
:rofl::hysterical::rofl:

Where did you here that ? A Timeshare salesman ?

If it could rent for 850/night why would they sell the room as a timeshare ?

Don't tell me that's the rack rate on the back of the door


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## billinlv

timeos2 said:


> I still have my long standing insiders at Wastegate and attend every annual meeting. Taking your "facts" from front desk or sales personnel is hardly the way to get reliable information.



John, since you obviously didn't email Michael Anderson I'll do that for you to report to him the c..p you are spreading around.  A representative of TUG.  Where is Brian Rogers?

I'll report back with Michael's reply.


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## swditz

"I, too, am tired of hearing John give out wrong information and badmouth Westgate every chance he gets.  He loves to make owners who bought at Westgate/Planet Hollywood/Elara feel bad about their purchase.   I've been reading his posts since I bought my property since 2007.  I think we can all agree that David Seigel from Westgate is not the most upstanding man, and apparently, John has had some issues with Westgate, but it's really time to give it a rest as far as the negative comments go.  It's unprofessional as a moderator, and this forum should not be used as a platform for his hatred of Westgate.  I would love to know where John gets his "facts" from, as he is not a Westgate/Elara owner.  Do you have some inside connection to someone who is telling you this stuff, and if so, who is it?  I'd really like to know."

thank you
is it any wonder that people who bought from Westgate and are happy with their purchase wont ask questions or for advise here? if I want to hear a long diatribe I can look no further than years of past posts. beneficial answers are in short supply. like it or not there are a lot of Westgate owners here. I am new to tug, but don't imagine I will stay around long.


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## jmzf1958

I rented my unit out for $850 a night, split week.  The rack rate is much higher than this for a four bedroom.  I don't appreciate being accused of lying.  There are some really mean-spirited people on this board when it comes to Westgate.   

I prefer to take the facts Hilton Grand Vacation Club management tells me than from anyone else.


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## billinlv

I wrote Brian Rogers to complain about John Chase.  Notice their motto is "Truth about Timeshares" but their moderators can give out untruths.  See reply below.

Our moderators are not paid staff, but instead just volunteer owners like yourself.  Sadly if we told them they would be unable to post their own opinions and participate on the forums, we would quickly have no moderators left.

I spend many thousands of dollars a year in legal fees to keep the TUGBBS and the content placed on it protected from those who would see negative comments censored.  I don’t feel that minor sarcastic remarks about timeshare entities to be crossing the line in terms of general discussion…lord knows many entities in this industry have earned far worse.

I am sorry you feel offended by certain things posted, but I hope that the freedom of speech wont be a reason you discontinue visiting TUG.

Timeshare Users Group
The first and largest Timeshare community site dedicated to timeshare owners providing the Truth about Timeshares for over 19 years!


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## T_R_Oglodyte

billinjax said:


> I wrote Brian Rogers to complain about John Chase.  Notice their motto is "Truth about Timeshares" but their moderators can give out untruths.  See reply below.
> 
> Our moderators are not paid staff, but instead just volunteer owners like yourself.  Sadly if we told them they would be unable to post their own opinions and participate on the forums, we would quickly have no moderators left.
> 
> I spend many thousands of dollars a year in legal fees to keep the TUGBBS and the content placed on it protected from those who would see negative comments censored.  I don’t feel that minor sarcastic remarks about timeshare entities to be crossing the line in terms of general discussion…lord knows many entities in this industry have earned far worse.
> 
> I am sorry you feel offended by certain things posted, but I hope that the freedom of speech wont be a reason you discontinue visiting TUG.
> 
> Timeshare Users Group
> The first and largest Timeshare community site dedicated to timeshare owners providing the Truth about Timeshares for over 19 years!


Bill's policy is exactly as it should be.

Let me be blunt.  What you are asking is that information be removed because *you *think the information is false and misleading and dangerous.  That, by it's very nature, is censorship.  That is always the rationale used by every censorship organization to suppress "undesirable" information.

The better way is to just let people post.  If someone repeatedly posts inaccurate information it is their credibility that is damaged.  They way to counter inaccurate information is to post better information.

***

re moderators - they have every bit as much right to post their own opinions as you do.  Or are you advocating that moderators should have less rights to post than are granted to you?


***

I realize this is not the type of response you are hoping for and it will come across as unfriendly, unwelcoming, hostile response.  I regret that, but as the same time what you seem to be expecting isn't the way this board is run, nor is it the way that any other open forum board that I am aware of operates.  The only boards that operate the way that you seem to be expecting are boards that do routinely censor postings.  

If you want a free and open forum, then you have to accept that there are going to be disagreements among participants about what is or is not true.


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## AwayWeGo

*Were Their Lips Moving When They Told You ?*




jmzf1958 said:


> I prefer to take the facts Hilton Grand Vacation Club management tells me than from anyone else.


Really ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo

*Booting Out The Company-Controlled Captive HOA-BOD.*




timeos2 said:


> You are under the false impression that Hilton controls the old Wastegate units. They do not. There is a separate HOA for them that hired Hilton to manage them - but they answer to the thumb & control of the King.


Can't the owners of the WestGate units get a majority vote to throw out the company-captive HOA & install an owner-controlled independent HOA ? 

If so, maybe the independent HOA could negotiate better terms with HGVC. 

The key, though, is replacing the company-controlled HOA with an independent, owner-controlled HOA interested only in delivering value for money to the regular walking-around timeshare owners & not interested 1 bit in the timeshare company's profit-loss statement. 

Until that happens, the deck is stacked against the regular walking-around timeshare owners -- bigtime.  

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## billinlv

AwayWeGo said:


> Can't the owners of the WestGate units get a majority vote to throw out the company-captive HOA & install an owner-controlled independent HOA ?




On November 21, 2011 LV Tower 52, LLC, an affiliate of Resort Finance America, LLC ("RFA") acquired Planet Hollywood Towers by Westgate.  On this date LV Tower 52 Management Company, LLC, an affiliate of RFA, took over management responsibilities for the Resort and Association.

RFA subsequently hired Hilton to manage the property.

There is one timeshare association for Elara and it doesn't matter how each unit was purchased.


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## timeos2

There has been no change to this announced anywhere. 

            July 16, 2012, 10:44 PM                                                                       #*2* yumdrey 



 
                            TUG Member

                BBS Reg. Date: Jun 30, 08
                 Location: Maryland, U.S.A.
                                                       Posts: 3,017                 


                                                                                          Quote:
                                                                      Originally Posted by *GeorgeP* 

 
_This is just a FYI: i bought a unit off ebay and yesterday i received my welcome packet from Westgate, cOmplete with a westgate member card. Not one mention of HGVC anywhere.  I have also been receiving phone calls from westgate asking me to fill out an IRS form.  I wonder how, when, or if hgvc is going to be involved....._

 I have talk to an HGVC/Elara rep a few days ago regarding my newly  purchased Elara week (got it from an individual owner and used First  American title co.).
She said even if the resort ownership/management transferred to HGVC, it (weeks sold through westgate) has nothing to do with HGVC at all. New owners who bought the weeks from westgate owners are belong to westgate which is part of the contract between westgate and Hilton.
So if you purchased a traditional deeded planet hollywood (elara) week, you can use it as a westgate week and you can do internal exchange to other westgate resorts, space bank your week, etc...
It does not get HGVC membership automatically.
I already own three HGVC weeks and this Elara week doesn't show up on my online account.
HGVC rep said they (westgate elara weeks) don't have online account and cannot be visible on my existing HGVC accounts. 
I have to call to make a reservation or to space bank the reservation.
You can use Interval International as an exchange company, as a traditional week system which has nothing to do with HGVC.


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## billinlv

timeos2 said:


> There has been no change to this announced anywhere.



John, GeorgeP's post that you quoted is pretty much correct.  My problem with you is that you are saying that the Westgate and Hilton units are separate.  That is not true.  There is one owner of the building, they control the association and how all rooms are upgraded.  At the meeting I attended the head person at RFA jokingly indicated how HGVC is constantly coming to him to authorize more upgrade money.

Here is something we got from HGVC last Sept. 2012 on how we now need to handle exchanges with II or internal Westgate exchanges.

Dear Owner,

In continuing our commitment to ensure you are aware of the latest news and updates regarding Elara, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club, we would like to share some helpful details for your travel planning reference. 

As an Owner at the resort, you may have several options available for utilizing your week(s).
Below is a list of options, including the most current procedures for exchanges and deposits:
	For exchange with Interval International (II): You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara prior to contacting II to deposit your week. The week you confirm will be given to II for your future exchange. If you do not have a week to deposit, you will be unable to benefit from the II exchange program. (Please note: only 7-night stays are accepted for II exchange)
	For exchange within Westgate's Internal Exchange system: You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara by September 30, 2012 prior to contacting Westgate to deposit your week.
	To deposit your 2012 week for use in 2013: You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara by September 30, 2012 in order to deposit your week for use in 2013.


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## dougp26364

billinjax said:


> John, GeorgeP's post that you quoted is pretty much correct.  My problem with you is that you are saying that the Westgate and Hilton units are separate.  That is not true.  There is one owner of the building, they control the association and how all rooms are upgraded.  At the meeting I attended the head person at RFA jokingly indicated how HGVC is constantly coming to him to authorize more upgrade money.
> 
> Here is something we got from HGVC last Sept. 2012 on how we now need to handle exchanges with II or internal Westgate exchanges.
> 
> Dear Owner,
> 
> In continuing our commitment to ensure you are aware of the latest news and updates regarding Elara, a Hilton Grand Vacations Club, we would like to share some helpful details for your travel planning reference.
> 
> As an Owner at the resort, you may have several options available for utilizing your week(s).
> Below is a list of options, including the most current procedures for exchanges and deposits:
> •	For exchange with Interval International (II): You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara prior to contacting II to deposit your week. The week you confirm will be given to II for your future exchange. If you do not have a week to deposit, you will be unable to benefit from the II exchange program. (Please note: only 7-night stays are accepted for II exchange)
> •	For exchange within Westgate's Internal Exchange system: You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara by September 30, 2012 prior to contacting Westgate to deposit your week.
> •	To deposit your 2012 week for use in 2013: You must confirm a 2012 reservation at Elara by September 30, 2012 in order to deposit your week for use in 2013.



In reading this there is one major item missing. That would be how Westgate owners can exchange through RCI. HGVC does not trade through I.I. and the Westgate units at Elera appear, at least from this letter, to honor the Westgate commitment to I.I. 

Also note the HGVC members/owners do not reserve a week and then deposit that week. HGVC members reserve exchanges through RCI using their HGVC points. HGVC members also reserve accomadations at HGVC member resorts using points instead of deeded floating weeks. 

I question either your source or your understanding of what the source is telling you. From what you've posted it is painfully obvious to me that there is a seperation of Westgate and HGVC inventory at Elera. 

This is not the first instance of a management change at a resort and it certainly won't be the first timeshare resort that is managed by one company but units are controlled by more than one company. Gatlinburg Town Square in Gatlinburg, TN has units controlled by Summer Bay and units controlled by DRI. Stormy Point Village in Branson, MO is managed by Summer Winds but has units controlled by Festiva. 

The Elera as a whole may be managed by HGVC and have HGVC's sign on the building instead of Westgate but, the Westgate units are not under the HGVC membership and HGVC units are not under Westgate membership. The two are still seperate in many ways. The only thing that may be the same is HGVC manages the property and controls the unsold inventory, which will be sold under the HGVC membership. HGVC also likely now has the right to develope the remainder of the property and brand it under the HGVC flag.

If you bought under Westgate you are a Westgate owner at a property managed by HGVC. Tricky to understand maybe but, Westgate owners are not HGVC members and, the way it's looking now, never will be.

IOW, John may be blunt but John is correct.

Here's a thought, why not call HGVC and tell them that you're worried that with HGVC managing the resort and HGVC members being able to use their points to reserve units at Elera, you might not have the opportunity to reserve your deeded week. 

Also ask how a Westgate Elera owner can book stays at other HGVC member resorts.

Here's what you're going to be told. Westgate inventory is kept seperate for reservations purposes so that Westgate owners will always have their promised access.

Westgate owners are not HGVC owners and do not have the ability to book HGVC member resorts. Since HGVC exchanges through RCI and Westgate exchanges through I.I., Westgate owners at Elera won't even be able to exchange into HGVC resorts using their exchange company.

I can pretty much guarentee those will be the answers and the reality of your situation.


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## AwayWeGo

*You Are Correct, Sir.*




dougp26364 said:


> This is not the first instance of a management change at a resort and it certainly won't be the first timeshare resort that is managed by one company but units are controlled by more than one company. Gatlinburg Town Square in Gatlinburg, TN has units controlled by Summer Bay and units controlled by DRI. Stormy Point Village in Branson, MO is managed by Summer Winds but has units controlled by Festiva.


Those aren't the only ones.

Blue Tree Resort in Orlando FL is partly WestGate & partly non-WestGate, with separate HOA's & separate check-in buildings & everything. 

Who'd a-thunk ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia.​


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## PigsDad

dougp26364 said:


> In reading this there is one major item missing. That would be how Westgate owners can exchange through RCI. HGVC does not trade through I.I. and the Westgate units at Elera appear, at least from this letter, to honor the Westgate commitment to I.I.
> 
> Also note the HGVC members/owners do not reserve a week and then deposit that week. HGVC members reserve exchanges through RCI using their HGVC points. HGVC members also reserve accomadations at HGVC member resorts using points instead of deeded floating weeks.
> 
> I question either your source or your understanding of what the source is telling you. From what you've posted it is painfully obvious to me that there is a seperation of Westgate and HGVC inventory at Elera.
> 
> This is not the first instance of a management change at a resort and it certainly won't be the first timeshare resort that is managed by one company but units are controlled by more than one company. Gatlinburg Town Square in Gatlinburg, TN has units controlled by Summer Bay and units controlled by DRI. Stormy Point Village in Branson, MO is managed by Summer Winds but has units controlled by Festiva.
> 
> The Elera as a whole may be managed by HGVC and have HGVC's sign on the building instead of Westgate but, the Westgate units are not under the HGVC membership and HGVC units are not under Westgate membership. The two are still seperate in many ways. The only thing that may be the same is HGVC manages the property and controls the unsold inventory, which will be sold under the HGVC membership. HGVC also likely now has the right to develope the remainder of the property and brand it under the HGVC flag.
> 
> If you bought under Westgate you are a Westgate owner at a property managed by HGVC. Tricky to understand maybe but, Westgate owners are not HGVC members and, the way it's looking now, never will be.
> 
> IOW, John may be blunt but John is correct.
> 
> Here's a thought, why not call HGVC and tell them that you're worried that with HGVC managing the resort and HGVC members being able to use their points to reserve units at Elera, you might not have the opportunity to reserve your deeded week.
> 
> Also ask how a Westgate Elera owner can book stays at other HGVC member resorts.
> 
> Here's what you're going to be told. Westgate inventory is kept seperate for reservations purposes so that Westgate owners will always have their promised access.
> 
> Westgate owners are not HGVC owners and do not have the ability to book HGVC member resorts. Since HGVC exchanges through RCI and Westgate exchanges through I.I., Westgate owners at Elera won't even be able to exchange into HGVC resorts using their exchange company.
> 
> I can pretty much guarentee those will be the answers and the reality of your situation.



Doug,

Just because the _inventory_ is kept separate, that does not mean that the _units_ have to be kept separate.  The inventory just needs to be properly accounted for -- what physical unit a person stays in can be managed at check-in time.  As long as the inventory is properly managed, "weeks" can still be traded in II through Westgate -- that can coexist with the HGVC point system.

No one is claiming Westgate owners can reserve other HGVC properties, or that Westgate owners at Elara are somehow HGVC members.  I'm not sure where that one came from.

John Chase's premise is that Westgate owners will only stay in "Westgate" units, which he claims will always be inferior physical units verses the HGVC units.  Billinjax has relayed information directly from Elara / HGVC management that all of the units will be the same, and that Westgate owners will not be relegated to a sub-set of physical units when they stay there.

Billinjax's information comes from Elara / HGVC management, and he has named specific names.

John claims his information comes from "insiders", and hasn't offered up any specific names.

People can make up their own minds, but I would give more credibility to Billinjax's sources.

Kurt

BTW, it is El*a*ra, not El*e*ra.


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## billinlv

I heard back from Michael D. Anderson the General Manager Resort Operations / Las Vegas Area Resorts.  See his reply below.  I'll also post what the COO reports to me later.

Michael Anderson <MAnderson@hgvc.com>
11:51 AM (2 hours ago)

Thanks Bill -- i am forwarding your email to Kim Kreiger our COO, he was also at the annual meeting.  You are right these statements lead only to confusion.  Watch for  a response ASAP.
I really appreciate the heads up.

Michael Anderson 
Work: micanderson@hgvc.com
Sent from my iPad


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## Rent_Share

Corporate doublespeak


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## billinlv

Rent_Share said:


> Corporate doublespeak



Run up those post numbers.


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## timeos2

Rent_Share said:


> Corporate doublespeak



And note the way the "truth" from Hilton has been reported since that meaningless gobbledegook statement. 

Silence. They can't "correct" what was already stated correctly. Hilton only operate the old Tower of Terror units for Wastegate - the owners are still under Wastegate rule and while Hilton as manager can ask Wastegate to fund repairs, improvements, etc it remains for the Wastegate weasels to actually approve it and pay the bill from their owners pockets. Since they hardly maintain or improve the resorts they actually manage & still sell it seems unlikely they will be willing to take the management advice to improve their now orphaned units across the country. Owning Wastegate has always been, and will always be, a total nightmare that helps give timeshare a bad name.


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## billinlv

timeos2 said:


> Silence.



Mr Wastegate I wish you would comment on something you have an interest in or at least know something about.  You're a big contributor to this group and I'm sure you mostly know what you are talking about but in this case you are wrong.  I wish there was a way to have the system ignore all of your posts.

As far as getting 'silence' it took me time and a few emails to different HGVC execs to get some answers.  

I was able to talk to Neil Hutchinson who is Vice President Association Management Services for Hilton Grand Vacations headquartered in Orlando, FL.

1.  Neil said Westgate could foreclose any of the units they were financing if delinquent but didn't know if they still had the FROF for resales.  He said Hilton would not have that for Westgate sold units.

2.  There is one timeshare association with one president and board and Hilton collects dues and taxes for both clubs, HGVC and Westgate.  

3.  All timeshare units are being upgraded equally, paid for by the building owner RFA (Resort Finance of America).  Neil thought they are working from the top down.

4.  Although one association HGVC and Westgate owners have some different rules.  The management agreement between RFA and Hilton requires Westgate owners, when booking a weekly stay, to book a Fri to Fri stay and to pay the next years estimated fees if the new booking goes into the next year.

5.  Westgate uses an 11 month booking window for home resorts and HGVC has 12 months for Elara home resort bookings.  They are looking into making it equal for both.

6.  They are considering allowing Westgate owners to go to a 7 day check in on any day if booked 9 months out.


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## Rent_Share

billinjax said:


> I wish there was a way to have the system ignore all of your posts.


 

There is, and I just added *you* to my ignore list


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