# RCI is skimming the best deposits for rentals



## Judy (Aug 19, 2009)

RCI is skimming the best deposits for rentals.
I know this because my recent deposit of a summer week on the Outer Banks of NC is in RCI's "Extra Vacations" and not available for exchange.  Here is what I pull up when I search for resort #5139:

Units that meet your criteria  	 Total Units Available: 6
  	Unit Type 	Max Occup
(Privacy) 	Kitchen 	Check-In Date 	Check-Out Date 	Price
2 BR 	6 (6) 	Full 	28-Nov-2009 	05-Dec-2009 	Exchange Fee -OR- $260.99

2 BR 	6 (6) 	Full 	05-Dec-2009 	12-Dec-2009 	Exchange Fee -OR- $260.99

	2 BR 	6 (6) 	Full 	19-Dec-2009 	26-Dec-2009 	Exchange Fee -OR- $413.99

	2 BR 	6 (6) 	Full 	21-Nov-2009 	28-Nov-2009 	$503.99

	2 BR 	6 (6) 	Full 	26-Dec-2009 	02-Jan-2010 	Exchange Fee -OR- $503.99

	2 BR 	6 (6) 	Full 	31-Jul-2010 	07-Aug-2010 	$1,025.99

I've confirmed that the last week (July 31) is my deposit.
The only other rental-only is Thanksgiving week.  These cannot be developer weeks; the developer is long gone.

I made three calls to RCI about this issue.  After hearing all the usual lies and convincing the reps that I knew better, a supervisor told me that they're audited based on the number of deposits they put into the exchange pool vs. the number they put into the rental pool. She didn't tell me the ratio.

I've noticed a similar pattern when searching for availability at other resorts, but this is the first time I've been able to prove it with one of my own deposits.  I'm  and wondering where to go from here.  RCI was sued. They lost.  Their behavior worsened


----------



## london (Aug 19, 2009)

*RCI Rental Pool*

When you deposit your week with RCI, they do have a right to use for an exchange or place in a rental pool.

That is my understanding of the agreement between RCI and its members.

We have been members since 1991.


----------



## Laurie (Aug 19, 2009)

I thought one of the terms of the Class Action lawsuit was they agreed that any deposit would be offered to members for a minimum of one month before being moved to rental inventory. Obviously that didn't occur with your week.   

I wonder where I saw something to that effect ... Anyone recall seeing something similar?  

I'll try to go back thru some materials to see whether/where I saw this.


----------



## Lisa P (Aug 19, 2009)

Laurie said:


> I thought one of the terms of the Class Action lawsuit...


The class action has not been settled yet.  So no guarantees...


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 19, 2009)

When we first joined RCI in 1999 the membership terms were explicit and clear that when a week is deposited with RCI they could do whatever they wanted with it.

So, Judy, my question to you is when RCI put the week up for rent, in what way did RCI violate the agreement between you and RCI?  What membership term that you agreed to did RCI violate or break?  Did RCI put a gun to your head and demand that you give them your week or else …??? If none of the above is true, why are you surprised that you extremely valuable week moved into the rental pool?

If your week is so much more valuable as a rental than in an exchange pool, the biggest way you can take out your frustrations with RCI is to *stop giving them that valuable week*.  As soon as you do that they can no longer exploit that difference in value between the week as an exchange and as a rental.


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 19, 2009)

That's why we don't do business with RCI. If more owners refused to do business with them, their business model of Rents Condo's Instead would have to change. I doubt that you're going to see a lot of difference post class action settlement as what your experiencing now.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 19, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> That's why we don't do business with RCI. If more owners refused to do business with them, their business model of Rents Condo's Instead would have to change. I doubt that you're going to see a lot of difference post class action settlement as what your experiencing now.


When RCI moves prime properties into the rental pool, the less attractive the exchange pool becomes.  When exchanging via RCI is less attractive than other exchange options, owners will use those other options. That's our situation - I let my RCI membership lapse simply because they no longer provided the value that I can get from other venues.

When people continue to use RCI, they do so because at some level they perceive they are better off doing business with RCI than they are with the other alternatives they perceive as available to them.  That's basic business - when  you conduct a business transaction because you value what you receive more than you value what you are giving up.  If I pay $25K for a car, that's because I would rather have the car than my $25K.

The basic, most fundamental, check on RCI rental of deposits is that if they degrade the exchange pool too greatly, they become less competitive and less profitable. That degradation of the exchange pool (whether by moving exchanges into rental or by causing disaffected members to stop depositing with RCI) is what will change RCI's behavior.  If you don't like what RCI is doing, the best thing you can do is stop facilitating their behavior.

As for those people who might continue to business with RCI despite the fact that they feel they are getting ripped off, well ....  I'm not sure how to respond if someone persists in doing something that leaves them worse off than if they did nothing at all.


----------



## timeos2 (Aug 19, 2009)

*Would not apply*



london said:


> When you deposit your week with RCI, they do have a right to use for an exchange or place in a rental pool.
> 
> That is my understanding of the agreement between RCI and its members.
> 
> We have been members since 1991.



You missed the part that said it applied to deposits of greater than one year in advance. At 12 months or less the 30 days does NOT apply even if the settlement was in effect (and it's not).  

They have clearly stated the rules - you have no rights to what they do with the week once you give it to them including them renting for THEIR profit the week you paid for - so why, if it upsets you, would you give them your time?  The easy answer is NEVER give up a week that is more valuable to rent (for YOU), use or direct trade. If it is none of those it's not a great week anyway so if you want to run the risk of getting an equal or better exchange why not? Understand what RCI/II is good for and when you should avoid deposits with them.


----------



## Rent_Share (Aug 19, 2009)

Vote with your feet

Mr Yogi Berra could have worked in the Timeshare Industry



> Half the lies they tell about me aren't true.
> 
> I never said most of the things I said.
> 
> ...


----------



## SherryS (Aug 19, 2009)

This is exactly why we are dropping our RCI membership after it expires in 2010.  Now we do not give RCI our deposits, but give them to other companies where we can get like-for-like trades. (or do direct trades)


----------



## london (Aug 19, 2009)

*Agree Totally*



timeos2 said:


> You missed the part that said it applied to deposits of greater than one year in advance. At 12 months or less the 30 days does NOT apply even if the settlement was in effect (and it's not).
> 
> They have clearly stated the rules - you have no rights to what they do with the week once you give it to them including them renting for THEIR profit the week you paid for - so why, if it upsets you, would you give them your time?  The easy answer is NEVER give up a week that is more valuable to rent (for YOU), use or direct trade. If it is none of those it's not a great week anyway so if you want to run the risk of getting an equal or better exchange why not? Understand what RCI/II is good for and when you should avoid deposits with them.



My post was meant to state that RCI has the right to rent the week or use as an exchange week, of any deposited weeks by its members.

Fortunately, we have had many good trades with RCI over the years.

However, we are no longer depositing weeks with RCI, and will use our banked weeks gradually over the next 2 years.

The weeks we own at Cocoa Beach, are weeks that we use and do not deposit.

I think you mis-understood my post. 

When our RCI membership expires, we will not renew it.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 19, 2009)

SherryS said:


> This is exactly why we are dropping our RCI membership after it expires in 2010.  Now we do not give RCI our deposits, but give them to other companies where we can get like-for-like trades. (or do direct trades)


I really don't care about what RCI does with any deposit I give them.  As has been pointed earlier, when a person joins RCI that person has already agreed RCI can do whatever RCI wants with a deposited week.  I confess to being totally baffled by people who are upset that RCI is doing whatever it wants with a deposit when those people deposited weeks with the understanding that RCI could do whatever RCI wanted with the week.

What I do care about is what value I get back from an exchange company when I make a deposit.  I stopped using RCI because in my opinion they provide less value than other alternatives.  

I care not one whit about why RCI offers me less value, nor do I see why I should care.  It matters not if RCI's weakness (for my purposes) results from RCI skimming the best units for rentals, from other exchangers taking their units elsewhere, or from RCI tagging my account because they don't like my avatar (cute fellow though I am beneath that exterior).

It's RCI's business to set service and pricing.  It's my job as a consumer to decide whether I want to use RCI's services, the services of another exchange company, or simply do without exchange services entirely.


----------



## BocaBum99 (Aug 19, 2009)

Judy said:


> RCI is skimming the best deposits for rentals.
> I know this because my recent deposit of a summer week on the Outer Banks of NC is in RCI's "Extra Vacations" and not available for exchange.  Here is what I pull up when I search for resort #5139:
> 
> Units that meet your criteria  	 Total Units Available: 6
> ...



Why do you keep depositing your weeks into RCI?  

Was it:

1) You just learned for the first time that RCI is unscrupulous as an exchange company and you are now going to stop depositing any weeks with them.

2) You have a habit of dealing with known unethical parties and getting constantly taken by them.  

3) You are an educated timeshare exchanger and have been getting more out of it than you've been putting in.

4) Something else.  Please explain.

It seems to me that for any of the above answers, you are in complete control of the situation when you make the decision to deposit or not to deposit.


----------



## drivable (Aug 19, 2009)

BocaBum99 said:


> Why do you keep depositing your weeks into RCI?
> 
> Was it:
> 
> ...


...hsrah...


----------



## bnoble (Aug 19, 2009)

> RCI is skimming the best deposits for rentals


In other breaking news, the Sun is found to rise in the East.

As for Boca's question, my answer is #3.  RCI can do what they will with my deposits.  As long as they still provide me value, I'll still make use of them.


----------



## teepeeca (Aug 20, 2009)

*JUDY*

If you can confirm that "your week" is in the rental pool, and NOT taken, why don't you contact RCI and "get your week back"---i.e.---"you have my week, it has NOt been taken/used, and therefore I want it returned to me".  "IF" RCI says it "has been taken", ask them for the particulars---who has taken it (if an exchange), or who has rented it.  "IF" RCI says they can't give you that information, due to "privacy issues", inform them that YOU are the "principal", so any privacy is "moot".

Tony


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 20, 2009)

Let Jennie and Susan know.  The class action still has some life in it, and an affidavit from you may be very helpful.




Judy said:


> RCI is skimming the best deposits for rentals.
> I know this because my recent deposit of a summer week on the Outer Banks of NC is in RCI's "Extra Vacations" and not available for exchange.  Here is what I pull up when I search for resort #5139:
> 
> Units that meet your criteria  	 Total Units Available: 6
> ...


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 20, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> That's why we don't do business with RCI. If more owners refused to do business with them, their business model of Rents Condo's Instead would have to change. I doubt that you're going to see a lot of difference post class action settlement as what your experiencing now.



RCI = Rents Condos Instead 

Good one.  It is better than the Rental Condominiums International that I had been using.


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 20, 2009)

teepeeca said:


> If you can confirm that "your week" is in the rental pool, and NOT taken, why don't you contact RCI and "get your week back"---i.e.---"you have my week, it has NOt been taken/used, and therefore I want it returned to me".  "IF" RCI says it "has been taken", ask them for the particulars---who has taken it (if an exchange), or who has rented it.  "IF" RCI says they can't give you that information, due to "privacy issues", inform them that YOU are the "principal", so any privacy is "moot".
> 
> Tony



I second that suggestion.  Then give it to a different exchange company.


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 20, 2009)

Oh really?  Fine print boiler plate that one can hardly read?  And not even printed AT ALL in the latest directory?  I know when I joined with a form from a resale broker, it did NOT include all of RCI's fine print.

Also there has been a lot of discussion on TheTimeshareBeat that RCI's fine print was legally a contact of adhesion and thus not enforcible anyway.

And when it comes to a consumer protection lawsuit, a company's T&C's are not a defense.  The test is whether the company's acts and practices are ''unfair'' or ''deceptive''.  The T&C may in some cases actually be a big part of the proof that the company's acts and practices are either unfair or deceptive.

In RCI's case when they promote themselves as an exchange company and then bury contrary language deep in the fine print where few members will ever see it, then that makes out a pretty good case INHO of deceptive acts or practices.




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I really don't care about what RCI does with any deposit I give them.  As has been pointed earlier, when a person joins RCI that person has already agreed RCI can do whatever RCI wants with a deposited week.  I confess to being totally baffled by people who are upset that RCI is doing whatever it wants with a deposit when those people deposited weeks with the understanding that RCI could do whatever RCI wanted with the week.
> 
> What I do care about is what value I get back from an exchange company when I make a deposit.  I stopped using RCI because in my opinion they provide less value than other alternatives.
> 
> ...


----------



## dougp26364 (Aug 20, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> ...... I confess to being totally baffled by people who are upset that RCI is doing whatever it wants with a deposit when those people deposited weeks with the understanding that RCI could do whatever RCI wanted with the week.....



I think it's because that they feel it should be a reasonable and fair barter system. Give them a week and get a week equal in value in exchange. But with RCI, it's more like you give them a week and get little or nothing in return. 

People who are not happy need to vote with their wallets and their feet.


----------



## jbercu (Aug 20, 2009)

*Yet One More Opinion – RCI Rental Program*



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> When we first joined RCI in 1999 the membership terms were explicit and clear that when a week is deposited with RCI they could do whatever they wanted with it.
> So, Judy, my question to you is when RCI put the week up for rent, in what way did RCI violate the agreement between you and RCI?  What membership term that you agreed to did RCI violate or break?  Did RCI put a gun to your head and demand that you give them your week or else …??? If none of the above is true, why are you surprised that you extremely valuable week moved into the rental pool?
> If your week is so much more valuable as a rental than in an exchange pool, the biggest way you can take out your frustrations with RCI is to *stop giving them that valuable week*.  As soon as you do that they can no longer exploit that difference in value between the week as an exchange and as a rental.


It is really hard to find fresh arguments that have not already been expressed on the subject of RCI rental; however the above remarks require a rebuttal.
When a timeshare is purchased from a developer, the developer makes a representation of the resort or club affiliation with an “Exchange Company”.  An owner cannot deposit a week in RCI unless the resort or club first signed an affiliation agreement with RCI.  The RCI affiliation agreement typically obligates the Affiliate (Resort) to honor confirmed exchanges into the resort.  There is no representation of “confirmed renters” into the resort.  It also typically requires the Resort to notify RCI of any RCI activity that is in violation of the Resort’s governing documents (CC&Rs, By Laws, Rules and Regulations) and gives RCI the opportunity to either cease the activity or terminate the affiliation agreement.
The following definitions are taken directly from the current CC&Rs of my resort.
1.14 “Exchange Program” means a service provided by an independent
organization whereby Interval Owners and owners of time periods in other
timesharing programs may exchange Use Periods in the Property for time
periods in projects in other locations.
1.15 “Exchange User” means an owner of a time period in another timesharing
program who occupies a Unit and uses the Common areas pursuant to an
Exchange Program.
Clearly, if RCI is renting the units deposited by the owners, RCI is violating the governing documents of my resort and others alike.
My conclusion is that while RCI is not violating the agreement between the Owner and RCI, RCI is violating the Affiliation Agreement by engaging in an activity that was not defined in the Affiliation Agreement, and violates the governing documents of most resorts.


T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I really don't care about what RCI does with any deposit I give them.  As has been pointed earlier, when a person joins RCI that person has already agreed RCI can do whatever RCI wants with a deposited week.  I confess to being totally baffled by people who are upset that RCI is doing whatever it wants with a deposit when those people deposited weeks with the understanding that RCI could do whatever RCI wanted with the week.
> What I do care about is what value I get back from an exchange company when I make a deposit.  I stopped using RCI because in my opinion they provide less value than other alternatives.
> I care not one whit about why RCI offers me less value, nor do I see why I should care.  It matters not if RCI's weakness (for my purposes) results from RCI skimming the best units for rentals, from other exchangers taking their units elsewhere, or from RCI tagging my account because they don't like my avatar (cute fellow though I am beneath that exterior).
> It's RCI's business to set service and pricing.  It's my job as a consumer to decide whether I want to use RCI's services, the services of another exchange company, or simply do without exchange services entirely.


When one purchases a timeshare at a resort or a club, one agrees to partner with a number of other owners to own and operate the partnership for mutual benefit.  If a company such as RCI causes your partners to be dissatisfied with their ownership it affect you directly.
RCI’s rental activity
1)	Diminishes the availability of exchange units to your fellow owners
2)	Lowers the resale value of your unit when the rental price is bellow ownership costs (dues +Taxes+Special assessments+cost of funds+Risk+exchange fees+++)
The increasing delinquency rates at all resorts is no doubt a function of the economy, but that is not the only factor.  Exchange availability, and increased availability of rentals at all resorts is contributing to reduced values of timeshares, increased delinquencies and increased dues as a result of delinquencies,  and a general dissatisfaction with timeshare ownership.
In addition to refraining from depositing into RCI, owners should take an active role in their Homeowner associations, and put pressure on management to enforce governing documents, and educate fellow owners in the total cost to them of the ill conceived RCI rental program, and possible alternatives.
Thank God for TUG.
IMHO


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 20, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> I think it's because that they feel it should be a reasonable and fair barter system. Give them a week and get a week equal in value in exchange. But with RCI, it's more like you give them a week and get little or nothing in return.
> 
> People who are not happy need to vote with their wallets and their feet.



And they need to be proactive to alert other timesharers.  Write an article or letter to your resort newsletter and let other timesharers know that they have alternatives with the independents.  Urge your HOA board to make this information known to all members.  

Just individually voting with your feet is not effective.  The word has to get out to the masses to make a difference.


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 20, 2009)

bnoble said:


> In other breaking news, the Sun is found to rise in the East.
> 
> As for Boca's question, my answer is #3.  RCI can do what they will with my deposits.  As long as they still provide me value, I'll still make use of them.



In the past, you kept saying you did not accept proof that RCI was skimming.  Do you NOW accept this as proof?  If not, why not?


----------



## Judy (Aug 20, 2009)

Perhaps I worded my original post badly.  It was not really about me and my situation.  My example was offered as proof that RCI is skimming the best deposits for their rental pool, not as they would have us believe, just renting those deposits that (lie #1) would have gone unexchanged or (lie #2) had been deposited in exchange for a cruise.  I have not personally seen my best deposits placed directly into RCI's rental pool before, while blue week deposits from the same resort go into the exchange pool.



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Did RCI put a gun to your head and demand that you give them your week or else …??? If none of the above is true, why are you surprised that you extremely valuable week moved into the rental pool?


 Ouch!


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Aug 20, 2009)

Judy said:


> Perhaps I worded my original post badly.  It was not really about me and my situation.  My example was offered as proof that RCI is skimming the best deposits for their rental pool, not as they would have us believe, just renting those deposits that (lie #1) would have gone unexchanged or (lie #2) had been deposited in exchange for a cruise.  I have not personally seen my best deposits placed directly into RCI's rental pool before, while blue week deposits from the same resort go into the exchange pool.
> 
> Ouch!



I knew what you were trying to do, Judy.  I don't know why the guys all chimed in like that.  Do you think some of them are a little bitter?  :rofl: 

I would bet you have superior trading power for that week, if RCI can rent it for so much money.  I think that area has to be one of the best exchanges out there.


----------



## dmbrand (Aug 20, 2009)

Judy,
Posting your information is very helpful, thank you.  These continued discussions on exchange companies may seem repetitive to some, but do help those of us still learning the ropes.  And the subsequent posts are helpful as well, and mildly entertaining. 

Now, do you suppose that RCI would pull that week out of rentals to fill a request in the future?


----------



## Ironwood (Aug 20, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> As for those people who might continue to business with RCI despite the fact that they feel they are getting ripped off, well ....  I'm not sure how to respond if someone persists in doing something that leaves them worse off than if they did nothing at all.



While my tally of posts would suggest I'm still a newbie, we have timeshared for 25 years, owned three separate properties, currently one, and have been an interested observer of this site for some time before taking the initiative to join BBS.  While we have growing frustration with our experience with RCI we have not switched primarily as we'd rather deal with the devil we know, and I suspect this may be the case with many other owners.  And as we all know many owners are completely unaware of these issues and alternatives that exist...played tennis yesterday with a long time timeshare owner who was completely unaware of TUG BBS...but he was going to check it out last night!  To RCI's credit and I'm am sure influencing our dealings with RCI is the way they came to our rescue twice over our years of exhanges, when we found ourselves checking into resorts that were wholly unacceptable.  So for the time being we work with them as best we can.


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 20, 2009)

Another very important pro-active thing that people can do is when you hear that the period for comment on the RCI ''settlement'' is open again, then PLEASE send in an OBJECTION to the settlement and ask to OPT OUT of it.  These numbers are the main thing getting the judge's attention that all is not well in RCI-land.  Maybe we can force that case into a trial posture, and then force a REAL settlement out of RCI.


----------



## Judy (Aug 21, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I would bet you have superior trading power for that week, if RCI can rent it for so much money.  I think that area has to be one of the best exchanges out there.



My week used to be a tiger trader, but since the RCI "enhancements", it's lost about 20,000 exchange options.  Now I'm wondering whether it's really a loss of trading power, or simply a result of RCI's moving more deposits into rentals.  After all, if units are not available for exchange, you can have the highest trading power and still not be able to see them.

Perhaps the Outer Banks in summer is such a tough trade because most of those deposits are going into the rental pool.


----------



## Judy (Aug 21, 2009)

dmbrand said:


> Now, do you suppose that RCI would pull that week out of rentals to fill a request in the future?



Sadly, no.  After the RCI supervisor had given up lying to me (I think), I asked her whether an ongoing search, already in place, would have priority over the rental pool for a new deposit.  She said "no".  If they won't give a new deposit to an ongoing search already in place, IMHO they certainly won't pull anything out of the rental pool to fill a new request     But if a rental doesn't sell, then I think they'll make it available for exchange at the last minute.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Aug 21, 2009)

Judy said:


> My week used to be a tiger trader, but since the RCI "enhancements", it's lost about 20,000 exchange options.  Now I'm wondering whether it's really a loss of trading power, or simply a result of RCI's moving more deposits into rentals.  After all, if units are not available for exchange, you can have the highest trading power and still not be able to see them.
> 
> Perhaps the Outer Banks in summer is such a tough trade because most of those deposits are going into the rental pool.



I have been complaining about that myself, as you know.  I am so angry with RCI, and because they are doing this to our weeks, they will go elsewhere.  I was bitter, but I am getting over it.  These other alternate exchange companies deserve a chance to have our weeks.  I purposely bought prime summer weeks, for exchange power, which used to be great with RCI.  Now it just isn't anymore.  I accept it, but I know what I have to do.


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 21, 2009)

Judy said:


> My week used to be a tiger trader, but since the RCI "enhancements", it's lost about 20,000 exchange options.  Now I'm wondering whether it's really a loss of trading power, or simply a result of RCI's moving more deposits into rentals.  After all, if units are not available for exchange, you can have the highest trading power and still not be able to see them.
> 
> Perhaps the Outer Banks in summer is such a tough trade because most of those deposits are going into the rental pool.



From the experience of a number of regular RCI searchers at Timeshareforums, the conclusion is that 10-20K weeks simply vanished in the disenhancements.  The thread is at

www.timeshareforums.com/forums/rci/93191-how-big-yours.html

The interesting discussion starts at the top of page 3.


----------

