# Club Wyndham Plus/Access becoming part of the WAAM program



## rrlongwell (Jul 15, 2011)

Given the well reported on Sales Pitches at multiple Wyndham Sales Offices urging new purchases in order to rent timeshares to others, raises the question is Club Wyndham Plus/Access becoming part of the WAAM program where the for profit Wyndham enities then keep the Management Contracts and get around 30 to 40 percent of the rental income from members renting through their Rental Arms.  If so, what probable impact would be expected from this manuver.  Less availability for owners or more in the desirable periods?

Also, if this is happening, what is to become of the Wyndham Mega-Renter designation and the associated limitations and restrictions being placed on this class of ownership?  Is it to continue and intensify to clear the way for the Rental Arm to become dominante player in the Rental of Club Wyndham Plus/Access assests?

It Is my understanding that at the recent meeting of the Fairshair Owner's Association, the group was reminded that it was a technicality that the group was a Non-Profit coorporation.


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## ronparise (Jul 15, 2011)

rrlongwell

It doesn't sound like you understand what the WAAM program is.

WAAM is how Wyndham is creating more inventory to sell and more property  to manage without putting up any money. Rather than buying the land, designing the buildings, getting the permits and building something to sell and bring into Club Wyndham Plus (Access, Select or Presidential) They enter into a  agreement with a developer, or bank (in the case of a foreclosure) to sell an existing  project or part of it as timeshares.

The old way takes lots of money, the WAAM way; none 

I know something about this program.  In my capacity as a real estate agent, I presented a 400 unit high rise building that was about to go into foreclosure to them. (They turned me down, because it was too far from the beach)



It shouldnt make any difference  to us how Wyndham adds resorts to the system, Personally, I like the fact that in this difficult economy, they are making the system bigger and better. Giving us more choices for our vacations

What bothers me  is that they dont seem to be managing our resorts , (however they were developed), for our benefit.


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## bnoble (Jul 15, 2011)

> It doesn't sound like you understand what the WAAM program is.


Among other things...


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## ausman (Jul 15, 2011)

So, you have reached that point too.?

There is a way to block posters, I've never used it, I think the flow of the threads would be strange and also strangely I just responded to one of his posts. 

The amount of misinformation and confusion is just overwhelming so I think I will stay away from tug for a while, perhaps for him there will be an epiphany.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 16, 2011)

basham said:


> ... There is a way to block posters, I've never used it, I think the flow of the threads would be strange and also strangely I just responded to one of his posts ... perhaps for him there will be an epiphany.



I am sorry some people think I should be banned.


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## bnoble (Jul 16, 2011)

> There is a way to block posters


I know.  It's really quite a nice feature.


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## ausman (Jul 17, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I am sorry some people think I should be banned.



Don't be sorry, that helps no one.

Just be accurate in what you post.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 17, 2011)

basham said:


> Don't be sorry, that helps no one.
> 
> Just be accurate in what you post.



I have been accurate on everything I have posted.  

What I was relaying was what I was told during a Sales Pitch at Old Town Alexandria.  I am not saying what I was being told was true or not.  Shawnee Villege, Old Town Alexandria, and Mrytle Beach all use variations of this sales pitch.  Sometimes they pitch rental through Extra Holidays, Sometimes where they act as the rental agent in the management of the portion of the account that the owner wants to rent.  

This was an interesting variation because it is the first time that an Attorney was identified at the point of contact that he goes through to rent to Europeans (he indicated that it was his wife).  I did not get into the rest of the presentation earlier, but in the interest of a clear picture of the rest of the Pitch.  I was dutifully handed off to the Sales Manager when he was done.  The Sales Manager observed that he had the right to remove enough points from my VIP Status to take my VIP status away even though they were bought through Wyndham.  

All of my contracts were direct purchases from Wyndham by my mother (now deceased), myself, my wife, my sons, or varying combinations in conjunction with my LLC.  He then wanted me to consoladate all of my properties, especially the two Westwinds ones and for me to buy an additional 200,000 plus points, all would be one deed at National Harbor.

My attempted discussion of an additional purchase of 1 timeshare at Old Alexandia was not entertained.  He indicated that he did not have any at that location but did have some in Williamsburg Virgina (which I have ruled out for additional purchases).  

I have extensively researched Wyndham over the last few years drawing information from Sales Staff, Management Staff, Tugs, the Members Directory, a wide variety of deeds, searches at the Myrtle Beach Court House and one line records mostly of the Myrtle Beach Court House, some at the New Jersey on line records and others. 

I also listened to the on line verision of the recent Fairshare Share Owner's association meeting in Flordia.  

I also have reviewed numerous on line versions of statement attiburted to Senior Wyndham Officals to Wall Street.  

I have also researched a variety of other resources pertaining to Wyndham.  

For the record I get relevant points of a sales pitch in writing when I purchase a timeshare through Wyndham.  As a result, I have gotting some very good deals from my point of view that are consistant with where I am going with the timeshares.  I do not worry to much about the sales pitch anymore that directly or indirectly threaten my Platium Status if I do not buy more contracts (I insisted and got a written addition to the Towers on the Grove contract reflecting this).   

I am considering entering the timeshare rental business with a significant number of my points and my only remaining concern with adding to the Wyndham Timeshares I already have is the point that Ron brought up pertaining to the 2011-2012 entry in the Members Directory about limitations on use as it relates to commerical purpuses.  That is why two of my recent aquisions were not Wyndham Properties and that is why I am not consolidating the converted weeks I own at Westwinds.  

The posts pertaining to Sales Presentions are posted for the purpose of letting others know what various sales pitches that are being used.  

The reader, if interested, can do their own research on the points being pitched prior to their going into a Sales Presentation.  Hopefully, forwarned is forearmed.  Hopefully, that would make the problem that is surfacing now and again that some go through the purchase process than have to go through the recending process.


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## ausman (Jul 17, 2011)

OK then.

It probably is a difference in perspective. Many of your prior posts seem to have been representing the current sales viewpoint. Which we all know is distorted.

As long as you identify things, as  "I was told, by a Regional Manager", or "I attended a sales presentation and was told ....", then there is no problem.

Representing what you were told as fact is a problem because in many instances it simply is not true.

We are all here to learn from one another, in my case I still feel the need to give back, for the help I received some 9 years ago, I'm immensely grate full and I thing you are trying to pay back also, so please be careful with the facts.


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## VivianLynne (Jul 17, 2011)

So these are YOUR MINUTES of a Sales Presentation YOU attended. I am totally unclear on a few points and I have inserted my questions in a different color/



rrlongwell said:


> I have been accurate on everything I have posted.  What I was relaying was what I was told during a Sales Pitch at Old Town Alexandria.  I am not saying what I was being told was true or not.  Shawnee Villege, Old Town Alexandria, and Mrytle Beach all use variations of this sales pitch.  Sometimes they pitch rental through Extra Holidays, Sometimes where they act as the rental agent in the management of the portion of the account that the owner wants to rent.Was this not an act that Ocean Walk was pulling and Wyndham clearly stated was not done by their sales force?This was an interesting variation because it is the first time that an Attorney was identified at the point of contact that he goes through to rent to Europeans (he indicated that it was his wife) His Wife is running a rental business and her law office from the sales floor of a Wyndham property.Did he give your a business card to solict you? Is he her agent - where does his real estate license hang? With her or his employer, Wyndham?  I did not get into the rest of the presentation, but in the interest of a clear picture of the rest of the Pitch.  I was dutifully handed off to the Sales Manager when he was done.  The Sales Manager observed that he had the right to remove enough points from my VIP Status to take my VIP status away even though they were bought through Wyndham. Are you currently listed as a MEGARENTER by Wyndham with several Member numbers because you exceed the 14 contracts under a single member number? All of my contracts were direct purchases from Wyndham by my mother (now deceased), myself, my wife, my sons, or varying combinations in conjunction with my LLC.  He then wanted me to consoladate all of my properties, especially the two Westwinds ones and for me to buy an additional 200,000 plus points, all would be one deed at National Harbor, my attempted discussion of an additional purchase of 1 timeshare at Old Alexandia was not entertained.  He indicated that he did not have any at that location but did have some in Williamsburg Virgina (which I have ruled out for additional purchases).  I have extensively researched Wyndham over the last few years drawing information from Sales Staff, Management Staff, Tugs, the Members Directory, a wide variety of deeds, searches at the Myrtle Beach Court House and one line records mostly of the Myrtle Beach Court House, some at the New Jersey on line records and others.  I also listened to the on line verision of the recent Fairshare Share Owner's association meeting in Flordia.  I also have reviewed numerous on line versions of statement attiburted to Senior Wyndham Officals to Wall Street.  I have also researched a variety of other resources pertaining to Wyndham.  For the record I get relevant points of a sales pitch in writing when I purchase a timeshare through Wyndham.  As a result, I have gotting some very good deals from my point of view that are consistant with where I am going with the timeshares.  I do not worry to much about the sales pitch anymore that directly or indirectly threaten my Platium Status if I do not buy more contracts (I insisted and got a written addition to the Towers on the Grove contract reflecting this).   I am considering entering the timeshare rental business with a significant number of my points and my only remaining concern with adding to the Wyndham Timeshares I already have is the point that Ron brought up pertaining to the 2011-2012 entry in the Members Directory about limitations on use as it relates to commerical purpuses.  That is why two of my recent aquisions were not Wyndham Properties and that is why I am not consolidating the converted weeks I own at Westwinds.  Most Tuggers clearly state the falsehoods in a sales presentatin. The posts pertaining to Sales Presentions are posted for the purpose of letting others know what various sales pitches that are being used.  The reader, if interested, can do their own research on the points being pitched prior to their going into a Sales Presentation.  The readers here are reading to try to figure out what are FALSE statements. Your "reports" read like factual realties. Your postes read like they are truths. Hopefully, forwarned is forearmed.  Hopefully, that would make the problem that is surfacing now and again that some go through the purchase process than have to go through the recending process.The Wyndham sales force sells using high pressure, half truths, misrepresentations, long sessions, and emotional appeals along with other proven pyschological twists. Why do YOU think they want to get you at the beginning of your vacation stay?



rrlongwell,
I understand the Wyndham selling model. You can buy books at Borders (or other bookstores) on how to effectively employ these selling tactics. It is required reading and studying by their new agents. 

State governments established the right of a cooling off period to rescind purchases made .... if a business does not accept that some people CHANGE their minds about buying something for tens of thousands of dollars - a spare of the moment without reflections or consulting in private, then either they should sell their products differently or get into a new business. 

As posted on TUG time and time again, the RELIEF by the many persons who did/have successfully rescinded a developed brought timeshare while on vacation is UNIVERSAL. Relief .... at having dodged an expensive bullet. Rescinding is NOT a process .... IMHO .... for buyers conned into signing paperwork that they didn't have time to read or maybe their glasses to read or were told again and again, this is what we are selling you (but that is not on the paperwork).

So, rrlongwell, PLEASE reread all your posts and clean up your confusing statements before hitting the "submit reply" button. I know the subject and I find your posts extremely difficult to comprend.

Oh, and can you stop bumping old threads 'just because'? If you aren't adding NEW infomation and current info, readers are smart enough to do a simple search to find answers to many of their questions. There were 10 threads your bumped with the phrase "In answer to another post".


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## rrlongwell (Jul 17, 2011)

basham said:


> OK then.
> 
> It probably is a difference in perspective. Many of your prior posts seem to have been representing the current sales viewpoint. Which we all know is distorted.


.

Trust me, I do not represent the views of Wyndham or its Sales Staff, if there is any confusion on this point, click on my name and review my posts.  Also, feel to contract the Better Business Bureau of Central Flordia, I believe their complaints and associated documents are public record.  Please pay particular attention to a letter from Jeff Cohen, then a Vice President of Legal to me, I believe he may still be but I am far from sure of this.  Please do not associate my belief and attempted defense of the VIP program as a pro-Wyndham position.  Do I believe anything sales staff tells me until I confirm it from other sources, no way.  Do I believe that VIP Status is worth it at the current retail prices, I guess that is what your purpose of ownership is.  I do not know if there is a yes or no answer to that.  It may be case specific.  If I were not re-organizing my Mother's Wyndham assests and carrying out what her husband and her were going to do if they had lived, would I have bought into Wyndham at all.  No way, my involvement with Wyndham was her (my wife's and mother's) idea not mine.  I do not believe in Timeshare Ownership, I am of the old school that frowns on them and their whole industry.


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## VivianLynne (Jul 17, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> If I were not re-organizing my Mother's Wyndham assests and carrying out what her husband and her were going to do if they had lived, would I have bought into Wyndham at all.  No way, my involvement with Wyndham was her (my wife's and mother's) idea not mine.  I do not believe in Timeshare Ownership, I am of the old school that frowns on them and their whole industry.



You spend a lot of time with your "Strange Bedfellows". You could always sell your ownership ...


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## rrlongwell (Jul 17, 2011)

Q:  Was this not an act that Ocean Walk was pulling and Wyndham clearly stated was not done by their sales force? 

A:  I did not know about this happening at Ocean Walk, I guess they could be added to the list.

Q:  His Wife is running a rental business and her law office from the sales floor of a Wyndham property.Did he give your a business card to solict you? Is he her agent - where does his real estate license hang? With her or his employer, Wyndham?

A:  He gave me his business card and I did not give him mine.  He indicated she was his counsel and that he could not charge for his service because of his employment.  It appears he is her agent, he said he manages the accounts of his clients making sure they get the most for their money for the least amount of fees.  I do not know if he is licenced or not.  I do not know which broker hangs his license.  

Q:  Are you currently listed as a MEGARENTER by Wyndham with several Member numbers because you exceed the 14 contracts under a single member number?

A:  According to Jeff Cohen, then Vice President of Legal for Wyndham Vacation Ownership and the Myrtle Beach sales staff, the answer is yes.  I have one account with multiple owners on it.  The LLC name, my name, my wife’s name, and both of my sons names.  I own 7 wyndham contracts, in addition to one PIC contract for a total of a little under 1 million 100 hundred points.  

Q:  Most Tuggers clearly state the falsehoods in a sales presentatin. 

A:  I have no first hand information on whether or not the Sales Agents for Wyndham are telling truths or lies, instead, I try to state the source of the information if I believe a source citation to be appropriate and relevant.

Q:  The readers here are reading to try to figure out what are FALSE statements. Your "reports" read like factual realties. Your postes read like they are truths.

A:  I do not control the interpratations that people make.

Q:  The Wyndham sales force sells using high pressure, half truths, misrepresentations, long sessions, and emotional appeals along with other proven pyschological twists. Why do YOU think they want to get you at the beginning of your vacation stay?

A:  From my experiences, I would not disagree with your statements.  However, I would add threats and harassment.

Your following post was Jeff Cohen's major point in my discussions with him.  Why would I want to sell off my Wyndham Timeshare Assests, I am still in the aquision mode on timeshares.  In the current market there is no significant resale value if any.  That just does not make sense.  

In my experience, the only sales tactics that are worse than Wyndhams are of those of Wynham Resalers and Renters that I have come in contact with or have found me.


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## timeos2 (Jul 17, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I have been accurate on everything I have posted.  What I was relaying was what I was told during a Sales Pitch at Old Town Alexandria.  I am not saying what I was being told was true or not.  Shawnee Villege, Old Town Alexandria, and Mrytle Beach all use variations of this sales pitch.  Sometimes they pitch rental through Extra Holidays, Sometimes where they act as the rental agent in the management of the portion of the account that the owner wants to rent.  This was an interesting variation because it is the first time that an Attorney was identified at the point of contact that he goes through to rent to Europeans (he indicated that it was his wife).  I did not get into the rest of the presentation, but in the interest of a clear picture of the rest of the Pitch.  I was dutifully handed off to the Sales Manager when he was done.  The Sales Manager observed that he had the right to remove enough points from my VIP Status to take my VIP status away even though they were bought through Wyndham.  All of my contracts were direct purchases from Wyndham by my mother (now deceased), myself, my wife, my sons, or varying combinations in conjunction with my LLC.  He then wanted me to consoladate all of my properties, especially the two Westwinds ones and for me to buy an additional 200,000 plus points, all would be one deed at National Harbor, my attempted discussion of an additional purchase of 1 timeshare at Old Alexandia was not entertained.  He indicated that he did not have any at that location but did have some in Williamsburg Virgina (which I have ruled out for additional purchases).  I have extensively researched Wyndham over the last few years drawing information from Sales Staff, Management Staff, Tugs, the Members Directory, a wide variety of deeds, searches at the Myrtle Beach Court House and one line records mostly of the Myrtle Beach Court House, some at the New Jersey on line records and others.  I also listened to the on line verision of the recent Fairshare Share Owner's association meeting in Flordia.  I also have reviewed numerous on line versions of statement attiburted to Senior Wyndham Officals to Wall Street.  I have also researched a variety of other resources pertaining to Wyndham.  For the record I get relevant points of a sales pitch in writing when I purchase a timeshare through Wyndham.  As a result, I have gotting some very good deals from my point of view that are consistant with where I am going with the timeshares.  I do not worry to much about the sales pitch anymore that directly or indirectly threaten my Platium Status if I do not buy more contracts (I insisted and got a written addition to the Towers on the Grove contract reflecting this).   I am considering entering the timeshare rental business with a significant number of my points and my only remaining concern with adding to the Wyndham Timeshares I already have is the point that Ron brought up pertaining to the 2011-2012 entry in the Members Directory about limitations on use as it relates to commerical purpuses.  That is why two of my recent aquisions were not Wyndham Properties and that is why I am not consolidating the converted weeks I own at Westwinds.  The posts pertaining to Sales Presentions are posted for the purpose of letting others know what various sales pitches that are being used.  The reader, if interested, can do their own research on the points being pitched prior to their going into a Sales Presentation.  Hopefully, forwarned is forearmed.  Hopefully, that would make the problem that is surfacing now and again that some go through the purchase process than have to go through the recending process.



Darn - there may be a message I want to read buried in there but the lack of paragraphs/formatting makes jt virtually impossible to read/follow. Please use some breaks.  Thanks


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## rrlongwell (Jul 18, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> Darn - there may be a message I want to read buried in there but the lack of paragraphs/formatting makes jt virtually impossible to read/follow. Please use some breaks.  Thanks



Per your request, done


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