# Owner Update Owner's Update Pariots Place, Williamsburg, VA.



## rrlongwell (May 30, 2011)

Left a owner's update at Patriots Place earlier today.  For your information, here is the the relevant points from the update:

1.  They do not mention when they offer the free breakfast/lunch that the lunch (that is the one I got) is only permitted after sitting with a sales rep. for 2 plus hours.  They pitched 45 minutes.

2.  I did tour the Presidential display unit.  They did not mention in a timely manner that a Wyndham employee named Mark Chavez would be demanding 20 dollars cash per person ($40 dollars total for me and my wife).  The demand was resumed when I took a break from the sales person.  

3.  When the sales person sent us to the person for the survey, she would not listen to my complaint about the demands for cash payment just to have looked at the display Presential Unit.  She explained to me that she fills out the owners comments.  When I specifically asked to do so she again informed me that she fills out the owners comments.

4.  When I declined her requirement to purchase a Discovery package (I am already a Platium memeber that did not need the points and already had a current price garentee from a Towers on the Grove retail purchase, she keeped demanding I purchase it.  Her position was that it would add a few months onto the price gaurantee.  When I declined this again, it went down hill fast.

I am conserned about the introduction of a Wynham employee into the process demandinig cash payments when a Presidential display unit is shown (the sales rep just defended the demands from the Wyndham employee for the cash payment) because I own a number of Wyndham timeshares at a few different resorts.  I of course refused to make the cash payments.  I would suggest others getting this demand also refuse it.  I would not like it to expand to other Wyndham resorts.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 30, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Left a owner's update at Patriots Place earlier today.  For your information, here is the the relevant points from the update:
> 
> 1.  They do not mention when they offer the free breakfast/lunch that the lunch (that is the one I got) is only permitted after sitting with a sales rep. for 2 plus hours.  They pitched 45 minutes.
> 
> ...



First let me say...its rediculous they asked you for a cash payment to show you what amounts to a sales presentation unit....

Second...I thought they were out of active sales at Patriots place? Where are these presidental units going to be built?


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## rrlongwell (May 31, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> First let me say...its rediculous they asked you for a cash payment to show you what amounts to a sales presentation unit....
> 
> Second...I thought they were out of active sales at Patriots place? Where are these presidental units going to be built?



Patriot Place Sales Force, as it was explained to me in an earlier presentation, is a subgroup of a consoladeted sales force at Governor's Green.  The show unit was a four bedroom at Governor's Green.  The open house is this week at the new sign-in area building at Patriots Place.  The front desk said the big wigs are already showing up.  They gave us an invitation to attend, which if things work out, I plan to do.  An interesting change with the new sign-in area is the Member Services desk and staff that give you directions to various local attractions etc. have been consolidated into a very small area in the sign-in area and now have four people working out of that area, according to the staff at Members Service.  You still have to go through them to get parking passes etc.  That is were the initial sales attempts start.  The primary target for sales is for Platium members to buy into the Discovery program to increase the length of time existing price guanties last.


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## Timeshare Von (May 31, 2011)

What a hoax!  That is absurd to expect people to pay a dime to see their model unit.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 31, 2011)

You need to escalate your complaint to management, then to corporate.  I would never put up with that behavior.  You would see Rick yelling in front of their customers, saying, "why should I buy from you, when I can buy resale for pennies...."


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## lisa1001 (May 31, 2011)

Also did the Presentation this weekend while staying at PP.

Totally different experience.

Sales Rep showed us to the breakfast area.  We ate and were then taken to the her cube.

When she got the hint we weren't buying anything, she suddenly had something urgent to attend to and we were ushered out by one on the survey people (the ones that make sure we were treated fairly).  In and out in less than an hour and got $125 AMX card.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 31, 2011)

lisa1001 said:


> Also did the Presentation this weekend while staying at PP.
> 
> Totally different experience.
> 
> ...



Well this is good news...IF nothing changes i should be staying at PP on 7/3-7/10..and it'll just be me until 7/5 when my daughter and her mother fly in...making $125 and wasting sometime till they show up could be nice


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## northovr (May 31, 2011)

we had one of the nicest but dumbest owner rep Sunday at the update it took about 2 hours but we got our 125 dollar gift card.


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## JimMIA (May 31, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> 2.  I did tour the Presidential display unit.  They did not mention in a timely manner that a Wyndham employee named Mark Chavez would be demanding 20 dollars cash per person ($40 dollars total for me and my wife).  The demand was resumed when I took a break from the sales person.


That's a nice touch -- a shakedown prerequisite for a sales pitch!  There's such a fine line between a timeshare salesman, a con man, and a shakedown artist!

Oh well, Wyndham premier employee *Mark Chavez *has to eat somehow!


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## JimMIA (May 31, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> ...making $125 and wasting sometime till they show up could be nice


AND...you're performing a public service!  You're tying up a sales weasel for an hour or so when they might be ripping off some innocent (in more ways than one) family on vacation.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 1, 2011)

If anyone is still at PP this week, would not mind saying Hi.  We are in Bldg 31, room 202 A.  P.S.  another suprise at Patriot's place as of when we checked in Sunday and as of today, Patriot's Place states  their guests can use the indoor facilities at both Governor's Green and Kingsgate with out charge.  What they do not tell you as it relates to Kingsgate, Kingsgate needs to be paid 5 dollars per night for people booked at PP even though only 1  day maybe used.  It is still free at Governor's Green.  PPS, it has been brought to my attention that as of today, PP now has a new overall manager.  Maybe things will show improvement at this resort over time.

Update:  My recommendation if anyone else is subjected to the shakedown cash payment fee is just pay it.  It is not worth the aggravation.  I will not go into the retalitory actions that are taken against the person that reports the behavior.  It is just easyier to make the cash payment as demanded.  To summerize the coorporate Wyndham positions on the matter, the issue is solely the area of the resort management.  In this case Patriots Place.  The management at Patriots Place will not or could not control the actions of the sales staff suppporting Patriot Place.

I could not work the issues out with the Patriot Place Management.  Therefore our last night will probably be tonight and not Saturday.  I wish  the best to others visiting Patriot Place and hope they handle the situation in a more succesfull fashion.  I will not make the cash payment to the Mark nor will I pay to buy a discovery package.


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## Jerry in NJ (Jun 2, 2011)

I e-mailed the new resort manager at Kingsgate late last night about your situation. I was contacted by him that they are going to get in touch with you. I sincerely hope the resort team is working to resolve your issues and you do not check out early and enjoy the beauty of Williamsburg this time of year.

I have a busy work schedule today but will be checking the board tonight to see if things have been worked out. Let us know how it works out. PLEASE feel free to contact me directly either way.


Jerry in NJ

Member Kingsgate POA Board


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## Rob&Carol Q (Jun 2, 2011)

Jerry in NJ said:


> PLEASE feel free to contact me directly either way.
> 
> Jerry in NJ
> 
> Member Kingsgate POA Board



Yet one more reason to be very please with my well placed vote for Jerry!


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## massvacationer (Jun 2, 2011)

Honestly, the Sales Team must be an embarrassment to the good folks that run and manage this resort on the hospitality side.

Is there grounds to make a complaint to the police ?? - maybe if folks starting putting in police reports the sales management will take notice.


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## ledaga (Jun 2, 2011)

*payments demand*

This how I would handle the issue if comes up with me.  I carry with me actual phone numbers to corporate management officials.  If this were to happen to me I will call the appropriate person on my cell right in front of the  weasle who requests and invite their manager to participate.  It will only take one or two times and the system will stop.  Go all the way up to the chairman of the board if necessary.  I have done this with other corporations and it always works.  It takes a determination and resolve of the abused customer.


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## JimMIA (Jun 2, 2011)

massvacationer said:


> Is there grounds to make a complaint to the police ?? - maybe if folks starting putting in police reports the sales management will take notice.


As offended as I am by the shakedown attempt, I don't know what anyone would expect the police to *do* in this situation.  The proper job of the police is to investigate *crime* and bring the perpetrators to justice.  Fortunately for many, stupidity and being in the wrong job are not crimes.

Plus, I don't think rrlongwell needed police assistance.  They handled the situation perfectly, IMHO.


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## JimMIA (Jun 2, 2011)

Jerry in NJ said:


> I e-mailed the new resort manager at Kingsgate late last night about your situation. I was contacted by him that they are going to get in touch with you. I sincerely hope the resort team is working to resolve your issues and you do not check out early and enjoy the beauty of Williamsburg this time of year.
> 
> I have a busy work schedule today but will be checking the board tonight to see if things have been worked out. Let us know how it works out. PLEASE feel free to contact me directly either way.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jerry!  You did us all a favor, even those of us who don't own at, or visit PP.

I hope you included Mr. *Mark Chavez' *name.  He deserves to become better known by management...even if it's only for a brief termination interview.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 2, 2011)

JimMIA said:


> Thanks Jerry!  You did us all a favor, even those of us who don't own at, or visit PP.
> 
> I hope you included Mr. *Mark Chavez' *name.  He deserves to become better known by management...even if it's only for a brief termination interview.



Isn't the area you go to see the model rooms...on Governers Green Property?  Are we sure Mark Chavez even works for PP ?


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## rrlongwell (Jun 2, 2011)

I met the new manager of Kingsgate at the Open House for the new Patriot's Place facility.  He is a personable person.  He came to you from Patriot's Place in a similar position.  The issue at Kingsgate he said had been resolved.  We also discussed the associated problems involving the cash payment demand from a member of the sales staff and the demand for a purchase of a discovery contract and the actions being taken for failure to do so (involved additional fees being paid at Kiingsgate and the harassment at Governor's Green).  He passed along what the Assistant Manager at Patriot's place had already indicated, I am summerizing the discussions on this point between the two locations.  The core problem at Governor's Green is that Governor's Green has requested Patriot Place guests not be sent over during certain times of the year, this week is one.  The reason why is that their pool is overcrowed with their own guests.  I advised him that was interesting because when we saw the pool  the indoor pool was empty and the outdoor one had only a few people in it.  As it releates to Kingsgate, the information I had received was incorrect and that guests of Patriot Place were allowed to use the facilities because there is an agreement between the two organizations that permits the use.  Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.  Please do not get the impression that I do not like the resorts in Williamsburg.  My family and a few friends have used the three resorts here.  Availablity, from my experience is much easier a Patriots Place than at Kingsgate.  This refects well on Kingsgate that users of the facilities appear to consistantly chose Kingsgate over PP.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 2, 2011)

Thanks.  How true you are.  I can handle the Sales Force and those who side with their practices.  Much better I might add than any police force would.  General speaking, to effect change is to go through channels and keep going up the line until you get a sympathetic ear.  If  that does not happen find a way to prove some of your key points preferably using their own staff to do so.  Things normally work out one way or the other in the end.  If nothing else, the employees involved may learn something about that particular tactic is not the best.


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## Jerry in NJ (Jun 2, 2011)

Glad to hear that resort management spoke directly with you. Have not yet had the chance to meet in person with Kevin the new Kingsgate manager. But all conversations have been extremely upbeat and I think he will do a great job for the Kingsgate owners.

To add to that I am quite impressed with management teams of both Kingsgate and Governor's Green that I have had dealings with.  They are striving more than ever for owner satisfaction. 

We will be visiting Williamsburg with my wife and daughter the end of the month. Maybe time for a TUG get together?

Again if you need to reach me my email is dotjerry1@msn.com

Jerry in NJ


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## rrlongwell (Jun 3, 2011)

Thanks for you help.


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## am1 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Well this is good news...IF nothing changes i should be staying at PP on 7/3-7/10..and it'll just be me until 7/5 when my daughter and her mother fly in...making $125 and wasting sometime till they show up could be nice




Just be careful.  There are 10 of you with the same plan to make some easy money but at least 1 of you will walk out with a purchase you do not understand.

You are better off to save yourself the hassle and risk and enjoy those 2 hours doing something else.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 3, 2011)

After talks with both the Patriot Place Manager and the Kingsgate Manager (the Manager of Patriot Place when I checked in,  the managers changed a few days later, Corporate, and Mr. Hyde from coorporate (he was at the Patriot Place open house for the new sign in facility).  A few minutes ago, I got the final answer on the cash shakedown from the Sales Arm, I will either pay the cash fee for viewing a Presidental Unit or they will bill my credit card.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> After talks with both the Patriot Place Manager and the Kingsgate Manager (the Manager of Patriot Place when I checked in,  the managers changed a few days later, Corporate, and Mr. Hyde from coorporate (he was at the Patriot Place open house for the new sign in facility).  A few minutes ago, I got the final answer on the cash shakedown from the Sales Arm, I will either pay the cash fee for viewing a Presidental Unit or they will bill my credit card.



Wow.... thats just not right at all....Patriots Place, Kingsgate and Governors Green all use the same sales office on the Governors Green property right? I'd go over to the sales office or governors green offices and blow a gasket!


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## timeos2 (Jun 3, 2011)

PAY to see a unit??? Thats crazy. I too would raise holy heck to get that undone. I've never heard of such a thing.  Wyndham really is trying to challenge Wastegate as the worst (at least in sales).  Unbelievable.


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## JimMIA (Jun 3, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> PAY to see a unit??? Thats crazy. I too would raise holy heck to get that undone. I've never heard of such a thing.  Wyndham really is trying to challenge Wastegate as the worst (at least in sales).  Unbelievable.


I'd be willing to bet Mark Chavez is just an isolated employee free-lancing to make a little extra beer money.  I can't imagine that shakedown being *Wyndham policy!*


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## learnalot (Jun 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> After talks with both the Patriot Place Manager and the Kingsgate Manager (the Manager of Patriot Place when I checked in,  the managers changed a few days later, Corporate, and Mr. Hyde from coorporate (he was at the Patriot Place open house for the new sign in facility).  A few minutes ago, I got the final answer on the cash shakedown from the Sales Arm, I will either pay the cash fee for viewing a Presidental Unit or they will bill my credit card.



Longwell,

This sounds like total bunk.  Have you spoken to Corporate Owner Relations directly?  1-800-251-8736 Option 3.  I would not believe the story about "Mr. Hyde being there from Corporate" for the sign-in.  If this scenario is actually playing out as you have described, it sounds like a localized scam they are running.  Sleazy even by regular Wyndham sales tactics.  I would definitely speak to corporate myself - by calling the number I know to be corporate - not by talking to someone they SAY is from corporate.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 3, 2011)

No, Mr. Hyde is real.  It was a Open House Thursday for a new building at Patriot's Place, he is real.  as indicated in earlier posts, I have complained to Corporate, the said they would not get involved, it is a resort problem.  I have complained to everyone I can find.  The mechanism, as I understand the threat, is that the Sales Arm has a direct ability to charge your Wyndham Account for whatever they want (ain't computer's great).  I think I have the charge stopped at this point, I have subsequently talked with the Patriot's Place Manager and he assures me he will not permit the billiing.  For whatever it is worth the VP in residence here for the Sales arm is named Butch.  Have fun try to talk to him directly.  All my attempt today got me was pay or get my credit card billed.  He did not even have the coutesy to tell me himself.  I am sorry that some people do not believe me and what is happening here is unbeilavable.  Just a work of caution to others coming to the Wyndham properties in Williamsburg.  The sales staff appears to be in complete control here.  As one Wyndham employee at Patriot's place that is aware of the tactics being employed by the Management Company's staff in support of the Sales Arm that was defending the actions being taken against me by the Management Company staff stated, "We are all one Company".


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## learnalot (Jun 3, 2011)

learnalot said:


> Longwell,
> 
> This sounds like total bunk.  Have you spoken to Corporate Owner Relations directly?  1-800-251-8736 Option 3.  I would not believe the story about "Mr. Hyde being there from Corporate" for the sign-in.  If this scenario is actually playing out as you have described, it sounds like a localized scam they are running.  Sleazy even by regular Wyndham sales tactics.  I would definitely speak to corporate myself - by calling the number I know to be corporate - not by talking to someone they SAY is from corporate.



So just to be clear - they did not mention the "required" payment until after you had toured the Presidential unit?  (If they told you before you went, you should have told them to take a hike).  I want to add that if and when I had spoken to these people in person, if they said something as crazy as you report - you viewed a Presidential unit so now you must make a cash payment; don't pay we will bill your credit card - I would ask them to please repeat that clearly so I could record it to make sure there are no misunderstandings.


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## learnalot (Jun 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> No, Mr. Hyde is real.  It was a Open House Thursday for a new building at Patriot's Place, he is real.



Longwell, 

The fact that Mr. Hyde EXISTS doesn't mean that he is actually what they are trying to pass him off as.  Every Wyndham employee who wished to could probably claim that they work for "Corporate" since their employer is the Wyndham Corporation.  That would be a typical grain-of-truth-in-an-ocean-of-bunk sales tactic.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 3, 2011)

Mr. Hyde is real and is who he was represented to be at the Open House at PP.  To answer your question, yes I did the tour and while is in the process of this is when the 1st demand was made.  The following was found on the internet.


Gary Hyde 
Sr. Vice President, Resort Operations at Wyndham Vacation Ownership 

Location 
Orlando, Florida Area 
Industry 
Hospitality 
Overview 
Current Sr. Vice President, Resort Operations at Wyndham Vacation Ownership 
Sr. Vice President of Operations at Wyndham Hotel 
Connections 27 connections 
Public Profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/gary-hyde

Yes, I did talk to Owner Relations.  I believe it was a tape recorded call where they told me they would not intervien and to make the complaint to the resort.  Wyndham did the tape recording if it was done.


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## learnalot (Jun 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Mr. Hyde is real and is who he was represented to be at the Open House at PP.  To answer your question, yes I did the tour and while is in the process of this is when the 1st demand was made.  The following was found on the internet.
> 
> 
> Gary Hyde
> ...



Then this whole thing is truly insane!  Have you talked to anyone else at the resort who had a similar experience?


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## rrlongwell (Jun 3, 2011)

No, but in my last conversation with the new Patriot Place Resort Manager on this issue, he indicated that a while ago Wyndham had tightened up on who had access to customers credit card numbers.  He indicated currently they are maintained at the resort level.  He said the efforts to limit the number of people having access to the credit card numbers was an effort to cut down on the number of unauthorized billings by staff.  They were having problems with that at the time.  He also said that the reason they are being maintained at resort level is for resort staff to make incidential charges to the credit cards.  The purpose was not for the sales staff to be able to make charges.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> No, but in my last conversation with the new Patriot Place Resort Manager on this issue, he indicated that a while ago Wyndham had tightened up on who had access to customers credit card numbers.  He indicated currently they are maintained at the resort level.  He said the efforts to limit the number of people having access to the credit card numbers was an effort to cut down on the number of unauthorized billings by staff.  They were having problems with that at the time.



I'm still not sure who to blame...Patriots place sounds like its stuck doing what ever the sales office at governors green tells it to do, its a shame that governors green would let their sales people run wild like this at its sister resorts...thats a shame, but really theres nothing patriots place 0r Kingsgate can do to help you...you've got to go to the sales office and raise hell or to the management at governors green and raise hell...

I went to a k-mart or something last time i was in williamsburg...there was a TS salesman for i think, the plantation out front bothering everyone that came out...had a booth setup and everything...now you can complain to k-mart about what he did there...but once your off the k-mart property...you'd have to complain to his sales manager or the resort he took you too...in this case it would be governors green


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## rrlongwell (Jun 3, 2011)

You appear to be absolutly right about Patriot Place and Kingsgate.  The Sales Arm appears to be all powerfull here and in control to Management Company Staff at all three locations.  Butch, the person that was said to be the VP of Marketing and Sales for Williamsburg was at work today but unaccessable, he is the only that apparently sent the message pay or get charged on the credit card.  Like I indicated earlier, it is a shame he does not deliver his own messages.


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## ledaga (Jun 4, 2011)

*telephone corporate*

Get on the phone and call up the ladder all the way to the Chairman of the board.  Don't no as an answer until you get your satisfaction. Hyde works for someone.  If he won't answer his phone climb the ladder and get more persistant.


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## paidemt (Jun 4, 2011)

Call your credit card company and tell them your card has been lost and get a new one issued.  If the weasels try to charge your card it will be invalid.  If you owe any legit fees when you check out, pay with cash.


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## BellaWyn (Jun 5, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> ...making $125 and wasting sometime till they show up could be nice



Ride:
If you DO choose to sacrifice yourself to the sales pitch ask them specifically HOW MANY of those 4B Presidential units they HAVE a GG!  They can show it all day long but if there is only one or two of them, the chances of any owner being able to book is highly unlikely.  It can be helpful for owners to know the counts of units at a resort location for vacation planning:

Example of a Hawaii location count:
1 Bedroom Suite - 47
1 Bedroom Deluxe - 47
2 Bedroom Deluxe - 83
2 Bedroom Presidential - 10
3 Bedroom Presidential - 4
4 Bedroom Presidential - 1

Looking at this sample, you can see that the chances of booking 2BR's is great, the 3 or 4 BR's are slim.

Whatever you can suss out would be great!  Good luck!
Caite


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## rrlongwell (Jun 5, 2011)

BellaWyn said:


> Ride:
> If you DO choose to sacrifice yourself to the sales pitch ask them specifically HOW MANY of those 4B Presidential units they HAVE a GG!  They can show it all day long but if there is only one or two of them, the chances of any owner being able to book is highly unlikely.  It can be helpful for owners to know the counts of units at a resort location for vacation planning:
> 
> Example of a Hawaii location count:
> ...



Especially when one of them is a show unit.


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