# [Happy update] DH's boss just canceled our vacation - Hawaii on Dec. 24th!



## DeniseM (Dec 14, 2011)

STEAM is coming out of my ears!

My DH's boss just canceled DH's vacation (officially approved a year ago.)

They are "too busy" for him to go...  but not too busy for his boss to take off that week.

We were leaving for Hawaii on the 24th.

No offer to reimburse us....

We have timeshare travel insurance - but it doesn't cover having a jerk for a boss....


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## am1 (Dec 14, 2011)

I would go anyways.


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## northwoodsgal (Dec 14, 2011)

Wow, that's really gutsy of his boss to pull that.  I would be very upset.

I once worked for inept supervisors.  My kids were still in elementary school and I asked for ONE day off during the summer so we could do something fun without the weekend crowds.  Boss 1 questioned why I couldn't just do a waterpark on the weekend.  Boss 2 said he had a project and needed me in the office that day.  As a good employee, I went to work that Monday but mad that I was being forced to.  I sat at my desk all day with nothing to do - never was given an assignment.  Let's hope that if your husband has to stay behind, that there's at least work to be done!


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 14, 2011)

If said boss is not planing on reimbursing me for a vacation that was approved and paid for, then I think I would have to have a conversation with that boss and then the boss's boss.

I had a project once that said NO way, even though I planned it, paid for it all,  and had it approved by my boss nearly 6 months earlier.  My boss said just go, a weeks vacation will not kill any project.

I think a discussion with said boss is in order.


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## Patri (Dec 14, 2011)

You need to go on that vacation. There are personnel policies in place, and an approved vacation must be honored.


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## Passepartout (Dec 14, 2011)

Jeez, Denise, that sux! Try to appeal. Tell el jefe that you have made big, expensive plans based on pre-approved time off and that it places uncompensated hardship on the rest of the family. Don't mention any insurance. Do mention that 120 days ago you could have cancelled with little or no penalty but NOW you are on the hook. If his project is THAT important, the company owes it to DH to compensate him for the family's financial loss and reschedule compensatory time later in year.

That's B.S!

Jim


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## riverdees05 (Dec 14, 2011)

That really sucks!!!!


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## DeniseM (Dec 14, 2011)

My DH's Boss's, Boss, approved canceling his vacation (in fact, I think it was his idea) so basically we are just out of luck....

DH already had it out with him and was told his job was on the line.

It is going to cost us $400 to cancel our award seats and get our miles back.

Of course we will lose our exchange fees, and get replacement weeks for our deposits....  Sigh....


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## MommaBear (Dec 14, 2011)

I would give the boss the receipts for the monies you will have to pay out for the lost vacation. If DH is valuable enough to make him cancel his vacation over Christmas, then he is valuable enough to be recompensed for his financial losses. None of that eliminates the "suck" factor. I am very sorry for you all.


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## Dori (Dec 14, 2011)

Denise, I'm so sorry to hear that DH's boss is being so unreasonable. He deserves a huge lump of coal in his stocking this year!

Dori


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## Makai Guy (Dec 14, 2011)

Is this company large enough to have personnel and/or employee relations departments?   They might be of help, *IF* your husband is willing to risk the ill will in his department from going there.


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## Kal (Dec 14, 2011)

I had paid in full to go on a cruise and my employer cancelled the trip.  They paid me in full for the total cruise and airfare.  Then I said I would reschedule at a time agreeable to them.  They identified that timeframe and I booked the alternate cruise (basically at no cost to me).  Then when that time came, they cancelled it again.  Of course they paid me in full for the advertised price.  Made nice money on their foolishness, but I no longer can speak.  My wife glued my lips together with super glue!


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## klpca (Dec 14, 2011)

That sucks. I feel so bad for you. I would be devastated!

If it's any small consolation I just called and cancelled our San Francisco trip this morning. We were going to be there this afternoon through Saturday. His approved vacation was cancelled last night.   In my husbands case he really does need to be there - he's working on a very specific thing that can't be passed along to someone else. I thought this may happen - I just wish that it had been cancelled sooner so that I could have mitigated the financial loss.


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## DeniseM (Dec 14, 2011)

Makai Guy said:


> Is this company large enough to have personnel and/or employee relations departments?   They might be of help, *IF* your husband is willing to risk the ill will in his department from going there.



It is a very large company, but since a VP made the decision, there is no sense pursuing it.


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## Talent312 (Dec 14, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> It is a very large company, but since a VP made the decision, there is no sense pursuing it.



I hope he hasn't given these ----heads any Christmas gifts yet.
DW and I just passed out ours to our colleagues today.


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## DeniseM (Dec 14, 2011)

I had to chuckle (ruefully) when I canceled my II exchange - the Rep. vigorously encouraged me to try to rent out my exchange, rather than take a replacement week...


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## AKE (Dec 14, 2011)

I hope that your husband is looking for a new job and at the same time consult a labor relations lawyer.  No job is worth that no matter how good the pay and benefits. This is nothing more than a power trip for the boss's boss and the boss also has no spine as he should have stood up for your husband.  Don't take this lying down as this only encourages this type of behavior.


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## JeffW (Dec 14, 2011)

You might consider writing a straightforward letter (no anger or emotion), saying that these are the costs that need to be reimbursed due to the last minute cancellation of your approved vacation.  Given the assumption that the company would stand to lose a lot more if you did go (award fee, perhaps new contract?), those relatively minor expenses shouldn't be too bad.

While I'd be as actual as possible on costs, I'd try to creatively factor in lost costs.  For example, yeah, you'll get back your week, and your exchange fee, but having just those two now won't necessarily get you Hawaii accomodations when you try to go back.  Maybe you should price out the cost to rent, then subtract the refunded costs.  That's what it will actually cost to get you back to Hawaii.

Unless one has a lot of job security, or is fed up with the job, probably not good to p_ss off the management too much.

Guess you better start setting up that Christmas tree in your family room!

Jeff


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## Gracey (Dec 14, 2011)

OMG, my heart breaks for you! This is just so very, very wrong!


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## e.bram (Dec 14, 2011)

In this economy you either a team player or you are out of a job.Strive to be a boss and you get to choose who goes when.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 14, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I had to chuckle (ruefully) when I canceled my II exchange - the Rep. vigorously encouraged me to try to rent out my exchange, rather than take a replacement week...



That's just hilarious. :rofl: 

Sorry for your change in plans, Denise.  Where were you going, specifically?


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 14, 2011)

e.bram said:


> In this economy you either a team player or you are out of a job.strive to be a boss


What is your point?  Maybe you should re-read and maybe edit the sentence a bit.


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## Big Matt (Dec 14, 2011)

I really don't understand the situation exactly.  

If I do understand, they your husband asked for leave and was granted leave

You paid for your vacation

Husband's boss said no vacation

You are out of pocket hundreds of dollars

If all of this is true then your husband should complain.  At the least his company sucks.  At the worst they are picking on him.  Either way he should file a complaint.  Why would anyone put up with this?  I would have quit just in principle.


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## Patri (Dec 14, 2011)

What if your husband was in a car accident Dec. 24 or got very ill? The company would go on. I don't buy the VP excuse that he has to be there. Who works Dec. 24 and 25 anyway?


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## Talent312 (Dec 14, 2011)

Big Matt said:


> I would have quit just in principle.



Are you independently wealthy, or just fabulously well-to-do?
Some of us cannot take our livelihoods quite so cavalierly.


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## falmouth3 (Dec 14, 2011)

That really stinks.  I'm sorry that your long planned vacation is ruined.


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## heathpack (Dec 14, 2011)

Two serious thumbs down on the boss man.   

Sorry your trip was ruined.

H


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## dioxide45 (Dec 14, 2011)

Could he call in sick? Obviously I am kidding. It sucks, haven't been there before but always fear it could happen.


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## am1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Big Matt said:


> I would have quit just in principle.



I am sure a lot of people would as well but people needs jobs.  The better way to protest is to do a half a$$ job while looking for a new one.  

This will result in the employee not doing their best so they may as well enjoy it.


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## Passepartout (Dec 14, 2011)

This is simply another example of those in positions of power taking advantage of those that don't just because they can. It's been going on for a long time, but since businesses trimmed down 'excess' workers over the last 2-4 years, they don't have people to cover for vacations/sick leave. Now, with business picking up, the shortage of workers is more acute than ever.

Denise, my heartfelt empathy.  

Jim


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## TUGBrian (Dec 14, 2011)

seems a bit odd "his job is on the line" if hes so desperately needed for the holidays.

Id certainly require some sort of compensation to give up my year prior planned vacation to hawaii.


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## pjrose (Dec 14, 2011)

Oh wow, that is just incomprehensible to me.

I agree with MommaBear's rationale for giving them the receipts for the direct costs.  Interesting that the boss is going - I guess your DH is more valuable to them than the boss is!  

I also agree with the lump of coal in their stocking(s).

And I'm amazed at the II rep suggesting renting it.  Wow.  That person must be new.  

{HUGS}


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## ScubaKat (Dec 14, 2011)

That really stinks!!  I would be asking for compensation as well.. What a crappy company to work for!


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## Elan (Dec 14, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> This is simply another example of those in positions of power taking advantage of those that don't just because they can. It's been going on for a long time, but since businesses trimmed down 'excess' workers over the last 2-4 years, they don't have people to cover for vacations/sick leave. Now, with business picking up, the shortage of workers is more acute than ever.
> 
> Denise, my heartfelt empathy.
> 
> Jim



  The thing is, it's not that most companies couldn't hire more help (corporate earnings have actually been pretty decent recently), it's that in the past few years corporations have determined that they can increase their bottom lines by wringing more out of their now reduced work force.  Small wonder unemployment is hovering near 9-10%.


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## IngridN (Dec 14, 2011)

I agree with the posters suggesting you present your costs for reimbursement. After all, this was an approved vacation and you are incurring costs due to the company's actions. This request is most reasonable and you should be reimbursed.

Ingrid


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## SueDonJ (Dec 14, 2011)

That's awful, Denise, it stinks to have to cancel a planned vacation especially this close to it.  It's obvious how much you enjoy Hawaii and we all know how much planning and anticipation go into every trip.  What a terrible letdown.  No doubt you're entitled to feel angry and upset.  I hope you're able to at least work with his employer to recoup some of your costs, and can plan a replacement trip very soon.

But the boss taking off that week sure doesn't help.  Wow.  We've had to cancel planned vacations when Don couldn't get away, but always because he's the boss and cancels his own confirmed vacation time before he asks his employees to give up theirs.  It sure is easy to see why you're more angry with the boss than with the situation.


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## Mel (Dec 14, 2011)

I would submit for reimbursement of my expenses - whether you purchased vacation insurance or not isn't really relevant.  You are now getting replacement weeks at II, which as I understand, are not as useful as regular deposits.

As such, you are out the cost of your airfare plus insurance, minus reimbursement, plus the annual maintenance fees of the weeks you used for the exchanges.  You are not guaranteed to get another pair of consecutive weeks in Hawaii, and you're certainly not likely to do so with replacement weeks.

Even if the VP made this decision, large corporations still have personnel policies, and that VP should be bound by those policies just as anyone below him.  It should be made clear to Personnel that you have in fact cancelled your plans, and that DH expects to have 2 consecutive weeks approved for next year. 

And I agree, you should contact the labor relations board.  They may be violating his employment contract, as well as their own policies.  (Just wait until they tell you he loses the vacation, because it is accrued and must be used within the calendar year - many companies are doing that now, to avoid carrying too many vacation days on their books).


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## pwrshift (Dec 14, 2011)

Glad I own my own business.  I would never treat staff that way...in fact I insist they take all their holiday entitlement as a mental break...even if they don't go away.  If they don't I have to pay them 4% of their annual income as vacation pay (in Canada).  65% of my staff has been with me more than 5 years and everyone kept their job during the recession.  I see great returns in positive staff attitudes.

While I can't imagine why they insist on canceling your holiday, I agree that you should at least submit your list of expenses lost for consideration.  Then your DH might consider looking for a new company as there may be something more to their demand.

Brian


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 14, 2011)

Elan said:


> The thing is, it's not that most companies couldn't hire more help (corporate earnings have actually been pretty decent recently), it's that in the past few years corporations have determined that they can increase their bottom lines by wringing more out of their now reduced work force.  Small wonder unemployment is hovering near 9-10%.



Not sure what you mean.  All business owners want to improve productivity.  That is exactly how standards of livings improve over time.  That is no different than it always is.  What is different is the bargaining power of employees is lower than when the job market is hot.

The reason we have high unemployment is that there are too many people wanting a job vs. those who create them.  We need a large number of those who normally would look for a job to stop doing that and start creating them instead.


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## davhu1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Check with HR to see if there is a company policy for cancelling approved vacations.  Probably nothing written but it only fair that the employees get reimbursed.  I would just call in sick when the time come and get a doctor to write an excuse for bed rest to turn in when he gets back to work.  Better still, go see a psychologist and get an excuse for mental health due (to issues with the bosses).


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## Margariet (Dec 14, 2011)

How sad! I don't know anything about American labor law but in my country this would not be possible in certain circumstances. It would depend on the employee's contract. I can imagine that there are certain circumstances in which it is impossible to take leaf but then the employer has to reimburse and according to labor agreements, even compensate. I don't know about your situation but if your husband is a member he could contact the labor union or any labor group from which he is a member or otherwise contact a lawyer who is specialized in labor situations. Often when a lawyer or organization contacts the employer, it already helps. In your husband's case this might work. So don't cancel too early. You may never know.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Dec 14, 2011)

*Who is this person?*

Sorry to hear about this Denise. In this season of giving, the boss taketh away!!!

Send me email address of the jerk who canceled this vacation for "timesharing person of the year" and I will forward him a link to this thread:annoyed:


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## LisaH (Dec 14, 2011)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> Sorry to hear about this Denise. In this season of giving, the boss taketh away!!!



On an unrelated note, the company I used to work for lays off people between Thanksgiving and Christmas almost every year, usually just before Christmas


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## SDKath (Dec 15, 2011)

OMG!  I just read this thread and I can't believe it!  I know how much you were looking forward to this!  I am just in shock.  Seems to me like you'd be able to sue them for something sometime?!?!?!?  There must be some rule against this.  UGH UGH UGH.


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## GregT (Dec 15, 2011)

All,

At the risk of being the Grinch.....................this is a very complicated situation.

Similar situation occurred to me two months ago, a project that I was working on for my company came down simultaneously with my HHV vacation.  My boss had already approved my trip -- but the timing could not have been worse, and I knew it.

So, I modified the trip, turning a 7 day Hawaii trip into a long weekend trip (arriving Friday, leaving Tuesday).   And I worked SOLID on Monday and Tuesday, so really I got Friday/Sat/Sunday off ---  and it was worth it.   And I offered to shorten it, because I thought my boss my cancel it, and I'd rather have a short trip than no trip.

On the flip side, I've also been the boss when a valued employee is taking vacation during a critical time.  It's easier for me to shorten my trip because I take so many of these things, but tougher for the guy where its his/her only trip of the year.

So, I am sympathetic to both sides -- and yes, I would definitely reimburse the cost of my employee's canceled vacation.  

Denise, tough stuff, I'm really sorry that you're not taking your trip, and hope that you are able to secure a suitable replacement!

Best,

Greg


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## MuranoJo (Dec 15, 2011)

Denise, as others have said, this totally sucks.

Many people are just glad to have a job these days, and it's amazing how some employers will exploit that all they can.

Given the totally arrogant approach they used, I doubt they'd consider refunding your sunk cost, and--who knows?--it may even backfire if your DH submitted it.  (Who thinks of these things at the time, but probably should have been brought up when he was first notified.  However, he might be able to 'test' it now.)

As they say, no one is irreplaceable, but this company has some major issues in how they treat employees, regardless of their level.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 15, 2011)

Been there. Sorry for the lost vacation. I can surely image 20 diffent BS reasoans as to why this occurred. But you have little to gain and a lot to lose if he puts up a stink.

Have a StayVacation attitute at  home at night during those two weeks Dinners out, spa night....maybe a night out to nice local upscale hotel for those jetted tubs and smelly little soaps.


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## Talent312 (Dec 15, 2011)

> Send me email address of the jerk who canceled this vacation... and I will forward him a link to this thread.





> Seems to me like you'd be able to sue them for something sometime?


.
So you think it's a good idea to get him fired?
.
.


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## JeffW (Dec 15, 2011)

BocaBum99 said:


> Not sure what you mean....



What the poster is saying, is imagine you work in a group of 5 people, but now there is enough work for 6 people.  Management could justify hiring that 6th person, but instead they'd rather try to squeeze the work out of the existing 5.  It could be they offer overtime, it could be, "keep working, no time off", it could be, "you have a deadline you need to meet regardardless of how much you need to work".

So not only do the existing employees get stuck with all that extra work (probably most often, uncompensated), but that unemployed person doesn't get rehired.

Jeff


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## djs (Dec 15, 2011)

Does DH have a job where he could work from somewhere other than the office? Perhaps he can offer to work from your vacation (while not putting in for days off) and that way you both still get to go.  It's not ideal, and I've been with people doing that but for us it was a 5 (??) time difference so by the time the rest of us were awake the East Coast working day was more than halfway over.  Perhaps he would only need to do two days worth of work during the trip.


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## Phydeaux (Dec 15, 2011)

I'd be concerned if I were your husband. Is he on the short list? This tactic is usually pulled when the co. is looking to get rid of someone. 

I'd also suggest your husband talk to his bosses boss, if he has exhausted rational discussion with his own boss.

I'd also revise my resume and begin a career search immediately.


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## ada903 (Dec 15, 2011)

This is awful, but to me the concern would not be about the canceled vacation itself, I would be concerned about working in a place / environment where such behavior is allowed.  How motivating and supportive is it for a boss to threaten an employee that his job is on the line for taking a previously approved vacation?  How would I feel going back to work in such place every day?

In this situation, I would of course cancel my vacation, since it's a tough economy and a tough time to be looking for another job, but I would start sharpening my resume and looking at alternatives.


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## pkyorkbeach (Dec 15, 2011)

This is a shame....sorry to hear about the loss of your vacation.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 15, 2011)

We had to cancel a vacation last summer when my work changed the dates of the "all hands on deck" to a week earlier.  My husband felt like he could not enjoy a week in Hawaii with our two boys.  In the reverse situation, I would have gone without him.  Its not like it's a once in a lifetime trip when you vacation several times a year.  If it were a vacation for just the two of us, I might still considering going and enjoying the trip solo.  

I also agree with the other posters that you DH should start aggressively seeking employment elsewhere.


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## AnnaS (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear this.  It really stinks.

Can you go without him?  Is it possible he can shorten is vacation time and meet you for a few days?  Just a thought.


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## Kal (Dec 15, 2011)

Until we know details about the specific job assignment or deadlines it's difficult to say the employer is wrong. Apparently a request for financial compensation has not yet been submitted or reviewed by the employer so it's equally difficult to say there is a financial loss. The only thing we do know is the holiday period has been disrupted.

In my situation where the employer cancelled my cruise/vacation, they were correct in their needs for my services. The matter involved a very important court case that was rescheduled and nobody had control to change the calendar. I was a key expert witness and my presence was critical to success. It was nice that my employer (and client) paid for all losses. Not so good for my planned trip though.


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

There are 2 issues here:

1)  My husband's boss (who joined the Co. in Oct.) is taking the same week off (although my husband got formal approval nearly a year ago.)

2)  They are starting a new project in the middle of what would have been our vacation.

So the VP (boss's boss) doesn't want them both off - and DH is the loser.

There will be no compensation for our canceled trip.

Everything has been canceled, and we are going to try to go to Tahoe for a long weekend instead.

Thanks for everyone's kind words - it does help!


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## Margariet (Dec 15, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> There are 2 issues here:
> 
> 1)  My husband's boss (who joined the Co. in Oct.) is taking the same week off (although my husband got formal approval nearly a year ago.)
> 
> ...



I don't understand. Are there no labor laws in the USA? Or unions or lawyers where your husband can turn to? His boss is only just with the company, so he doesn't have much rights! IMHO his boss has a big problem. Let your lawyer call him. Your husband will sure get compensation after legal contact.


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## jlwquilter (Dec 15, 2011)

I am sorry for the cancelled trip Denise. What a complete bummer  

As for what is really going on, we simply don't know and perhaps right now neither does Denise or her DH.

The new boss is a new hire. He may very well have stipulated that he gets that week off as part of his hire agreement. I know that I have done that on new jobs (I already had a planned vacation before changing jobs) and I know others do too. If so, then the beef is with the boss's boss who agreed when the hiring took place. The new boss probably didn't have the least clue at the time of what plans his new staff had over the holidays. And we certainly don't know the new boss' circumstances re: his week off. It's very easy to say he should cancel his plans instead of Denise's DH's vacation but, well, that is easiet said in a information vacuum, isn't it?

The new boss and/or the boss's boss may indeed be jerks. Or not. I am sure Denise and her DH will be smart enough to look at the WHOLE picture before making any decisions on what they should or shouldn't do going forward.

All that said, it still sucks!


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## hefleycatz (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm glad you managed to at least plan a short getaway.  DH has been with same company for over 34 years (Colonial,then earthgrains, then owned by A Busch, spun off to just earthgrains again, bought by SaraLee and now sold to RalCorp.  He is head of Transportation, Customer Service and Logistics so I am always in fear that this will happen.  

As far as someone saying "I would just quit" thats not an option in todays world.  There is no job security, no matter how long you have been there, or how hard of a worker you have been.  DH and fellow employees have for several years had the looming axe hanging over their heads.  Since this newest buyout, they actually feel a little better about security.  But that can all change??  As for vacations for next year, I have 1 week planned, but am a little scared to plan much else.   

I would hate to have to leave him at home working while I go on vacation.    really I would    hmmm

lee


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 15, 2011)

JeffW said:


> What the poster is saying, is imagine you work in a group of 5 people, but now there is enough work for 6 people.  Management could justify hiring that 6th person, but instead they'd rather try to squeeze the work out of the existing 5.  It could be they offer overtime, it could be, "keep working, no time off", it could be, "you have a deadline you need to meet regardardless of how much you need to work".
> 
> So not only do the existing employees get stuck with all that extra work (probably most often, uncompensated), but that unemployed person doesn't get rehired.
> 
> Jeff


off topic comment removed


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## JeffW (Dec 15, 2011)

At the least, I'd ask for clarification on the vacation request policy.  If it's a formal policy, then what's it's purpose?  Basically, is there any assurance that if you plan a vacation in the future, that it won't be cancelled again?

To a degree, it doesn't sound like your financial losses are significant.  But how about if you were paying full price to rent similar accomodations to what you timeshare would get you?  If you were doing a private rental, this close out, good change you'd have had to pay 100% of the cost, with no cancellation option.  

When the next review time comes up, I'd be sure to emphasize, "Now that I'm apparently an indespensible part of the company, I hope my raise reflects that."

I've had to work while on vacations, but I've never had to cancel one because of it.  Really s*cks, pretty much all you can say.

Jeff


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## Margariet (Dec 15, 2011)

All I know is that your husband has a right to reimburesement or compensation. No need that you have to pay for the cancellation. Just let a lawyer call and the company of your husband will be more than willing to compensate! Why not? They need your husband, right?? It obviously costs the company more to let your husband go on vacation so a little compensation or reimbursement isn't that much!!


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

My husband is in management, so he can be let go at will.  He only has about 5 years until retirement, so rocking the boat any further would not be a good thing.  He did have it out with his boss yesterday, but going over his head to HR or the VP would probably only cause problems for my husband.  His boss'  last words to him yesterday were,_ "Don't make me have to be an A** H*** about this."_

By the way - we don't think they are trying to squeeze him out at all.  He is the hands-on guy "who gets it done" at the two facilities he supervises, and with the General Mgr. taking off - they don't want him off.


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## djs (Dec 15, 2011)

Margariet said:


> All I know is that your husband has a right to reimburesement or compensation. No need that you have to pay for the cancellation. Just let a lawyer call and the company of your husband will be more than willing to compensate! Why not? They need your husband, right?? It obviously costs the company more to let your husband go on vacation so a little compensation or reimbursement isn't that much!!



Unfortunately, although the right thing for the company to do would be to reimburse them, the company likely is under no obligation to.  Many states in the US are "Employment at Will" which means that one can be fired any one of numerous reasons (age, gender and race are "protected" (to name a few)) in that you can not be fired for any of those.  Given that, it is not always in one's best intrest to rock the boat.


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## djs (Dec 15, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> ... His boss'  last words to him yesterday were,_ "Don't make me have to be an A** H*** about this."_...



Seems if that ship has sailed.


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## easyrider (Dec 15, 2011)

Bummer..... When this type of event happens it is better to count your blessings, after you cool off of course, then make the best of it. 

Tahoe is alot of fun this time of year.


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## massvacationer (Dec 15, 2011)

I think that this really stinks, but in Denise's situation, they are doing the right thing by just rolling with the punches.  The salt on the wound is that the boss IS taking the week off.  In a way, though, this says that Denise's husband is the more valuable of the two.

Unfortunately the poor job market and economy are causing many companies to take advantage of employees by pushing them harder than they should, because  companies know they can get away with it, as employees are not likley to leave.

Anyway, if Denise's husband works that week - and continues to portray a positive attitude, he should expect to be rewarded with a good bonus, raise,  or something down the line.


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## elaine (Dec 15, 2011)

OK--this was beyond obnoxious for them to do---but, if he was told if he fusses his job is on the line, I would tell DH to state that family was very upset about canceling, but he is a "team" player and is certainly willing to step up to the plate, but that he would "appreciate" consideration for next year's travel plans. Mngmnt loves that "team player" stuff--if he can suck it up, it goes a long way.
You are lucky you have TS ins and you used FF miles. Canyou imagine is you had paid for tickets---yikes!
In this economy, I think you have to roll with it, as well. Wow, that stinks! Start planning next year's trip! Elaine


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

Unfortunately, timeshare insurance does NOT pay for a vacation canceled by your boss.  We essentially lost the exchanges, since replacement weeks have so little value.  It cost $400 to get the FF miles back - but that is a lot better than losing 2 airfares to Hawaii!


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## elaine (Dec 15, 2011)

you must be with II. RCI has different insurance--replaces the week at full value. That stinks! Elaine


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## Passepartout (Dec 15, 2011)

I wouldn't want to wish the newhired 'boss' who gets to go on HIS vaca any bad luck, but I hope his zipper rusts shut. 

This is a good time to believe in karma. He'll get his.

Hang in there for 5 years, Denise. It'll be worth it.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

elaine said:


> you must be with II. RCI has different insurance--replaces the week at full value. That stinks! Elaine



It's not the Ins. you buy from the exchange company - it's the 12 mo. plan that you can buy to cover all your ownerships.


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## davhu1 (Dec 15, 2011)

Since you already cancelled the trip, this comment probably does not matter.  I would have taken to a higher level.  There is a difference between have to be there and like to be there.  I like to know what would happen if your husband actually get sick or get into an accident?  Will operation come to a haul?  If not, then there must be an alternative or compromise.  There must be competent people who can step in and as long as you husband can be reached, either by phone or internet in the case he needs to be reached.  

Obnoxious bosses.  I guess mine is not any better.  My vacation plans are always at a risk because he never approved vacations in advance.  His rational is that he never knows when you are needed to be at work.  We submit our request and finds it approved only after we return from vacation.  We are actual on leave without authorization if he fails to sign after we are gone.


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

The VP was the one who said that he didn't want DH and DH's boss off at the same time.


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## pjrose (Dec 15, 2011)

massvacationer said:


> I* think that this really stinks, but in Denise's situation, they are doing the right thing by just rolling with the punches.  The salt on the wound is that the boss IS taking the week off.  In a way, though, this says that Denise's husband is the more valuable of the two.*
> 
> Unfortunately the poor job market and economy are causing many companies to take advantage of employees by pushing them harder than they should, because  companies know they can get away with it, as employees are not likley to leave.
> 
> Anyway, if Denise's husband works that week - and continues to portray a positive attitude, he should expect to be rewarded with a good bonus, raise,  or something down the line.



I agree completely, with one exception - I don't think he can expect any kind of reward - hope, maybe - deserve, surely - but expect nothing, then you won't be disappointed.

And regarding the II replacement weeks and the cost for the miles, you might be able to talk to a supervisor at both companies and ask if they could please waive the policy....I HAVE had II change the status of weeks, i.e. weeks that I deposited a few days later than the 60-days before, and the II people changed them into regular deposits instead of "flex", and the airlines can also waive the cost of re-depositing the miles.  Even though you've already done both, you could still call and ask for a supervisor and see if s/he will commiserate about the crummy situation, and waive the policy.


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## Margariet (Dec 15, 2011)

djs said:


> Unfortunately, although the right thing for the company to do would be to reimburse them, the company likely is under no obligation to.  Many states in the US are "Employment at Will" which means that one can be fired any one of numerous reasons (age, gender and race are "protected" (to name a few)) in that you can not be fired for any of those.  Given that, it is not always in one's best intrest to rock the boat.



Thanks for the explanation. I don't know the exact situation but in my country it would have been unthinkable unless you don't have a permanent contract. Since many employees are union members and many employees are protected by laws and arrangements a thing like this would have cost an employer a lot. I would have called my lawyer immediately and normally these things are settled quickly. Of course an employer can say that leaf is not possible but then he will have to compensate, which is very normal in my opinion, since the employee's presence is of value for the employer.


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

In the US, most people don't have contracts at all, and most management positions are not union positions.


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## K&PFitz (Dec 15, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> My husband is in management, so he can be let go at will.  He only has about 5 years until retirement, so rocking the boat any further would not be a good thing.



It's a tough time for us middle-aged, late in career guys.  You walk on eggshells hoping your company doesn't have to cut back staff or that the boss doesn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed.

Not too long ago, you could say goodbye to a boss like this, and get hired the next day.  Now it seems like 30 years experience counts against you.  

A guy that worked just down the hall from me (tho in a different department) got let go on a Tuesday morning a couple weeks ago.  In his 50s  - good luck finding a job.  It was odd.  I talked to him about 10 AM.  Then I walked past his desk before lunch, and it was cleaned out.  Never did hear why.


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## geekette (Dec 15, 2011)

am1 said:


> I would go anyways.



yep, but I'm one that would take a job loss in stride.


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## eal (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm so sorry this happened Denise, it is most unfair to someone who plans so far ahead and so responsibly.  It sounds like {jerks} abound in your husband's organization!  Good luck to your husband for these next five years, and karma most certainly will kick in somewhere along the line.


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## JeffW (Dec 15, 2011)

I think there are two separate issues.  The first is, "...you need to be here to work..."   Work situations can require one to work when they were scheduled to be off.   There could a legitimate reason OP's husand needs to be in work.  Granted, it doesn't help that the boss has off instead, but that is a perk of management. 

The second issue is how they handled it.  Had the boss said, "We know you were supposed to go away, we'll pick up what you need to replace the vacation when you can take it", I'm thinking it wouldn't have been so bad.  But totally ignoring the fact that there's both an actual cost to cancel the vacation (redeposit fees, etc), plus a replacemant cost (ie. trip might have been booked a year ago; it would cost a lot more if booked for 2 months from now), that's what annoys me the most.  

Is there a legal requirement that they do something, probably not (only perhaps if he was union or high up on the mgmt chain).  But respect should go both ways.  While OP's husband doesn't want to piss off his boss (and risk losing his job), if the boss really wants some productive work out of his 'employee', it's also in his best interest not to piss him off either.  He'll show up to work, but I'm thinking he may not get 100% effort (and almost certainly not the 110% effort that, since the companies apparently in a crunch, they'd probably like to have).

Unfortunately the reality is that middle age employees, who can count years to retirement on their hand, are not likely to leave their companies.

I hope you start to make arrangements for your replacement Hawaii trip.  Wherever else you go, it's no substitution.

Jeff


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## geekette (Dec 15, 2011)

Margariet said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I don't know the exact situation but in my country it would have been unthinkable unless you don't have a permanent contract. Since many employees are union members and many employees are protected by laws and arrangements a thing like this would have cost an employer a lot. I would have called my lawyer immediately and normally these things are settled quickly. Of course an employer can say that leaf is not possible but then he will have to compensate, which is very normal in my opinion, since the employee's presence is of value for the employer.



very few protections in the US.  I am in an At Will state, which means employers hold all the cards, can fire for any reason, no reason, whenever, never, and the employee has no legal remedies available.     

I've never had an employment contract, nor been anywhere near a union.  these just aren't things very common to most working folks here.  

calling a lawyer is unlikely to help when there are no actual laws to protect the employee or his job.  

being reimbursed is also not something that could be legally forced.  Employer's option.  this one said no.  (which I would not be letting go,but  that's me, I'd be a pain in the ass until someone cut me a check for the trip I was *suddenly *"not allowed" to take due to BUSINESS REQUIREMENTS).

Sorry, I don't buy the whole "we have to shut up to keep our jobs" stuff.  I'm middle age, not a guy, but I can not be taken advantage of without my permission.  Others can say Yes Sir, May I have another, but not me.  I stand up for myself, and yes, sometimes, there are consequences.  But, being true to myself and being happy on the job is worth it To Me.  Once a job is ruined for me, that's it, I gotta go.  

My job on the line if I don't stay and work?  bullcrap.  If I'm that vital, why would you fire me for being gone on an EARNED AND APPROVED vacation?  i would call their bluff, but I understand why others wouldn't.  fire me on my return and I will definitely be in the HR office, I don't care whose head I go over.  I would be explaining to the HR person how the last hired guy gets his vacation.  not that I'd want my job back, depending on how it's all handled, but I would make damned sure that HR knew exactly how it came down.  if nothing else, note it in my file for when reference checks are done.

[for the record, I have been fired on return from a planned and approved vacation but was not asked ahead of time not to go, but other employees told me that vacationers get canned, and, I'll be damned, the rumor is true!  huh.  what a weird way to run a business...   and I quietly left without any pushback because why the hell would I want to continue working for them???   And I got my paid vacation.  Um, thanks, Freaks!   ]

 industries and locations vary, but I have long felt that I would not take crap I didn't want to take and have left companies doling out (*#%&@$&(@$  that I wasn't going to take.  Beat on someone else, I'm not having that, I don't have to, I have options.  My services are reserved for deserving employers and they get the best out of me.  

While unemployment may be high, there is always room for one more good person, and there ARE JOBS.  (depends on where you are, but take a drive here and you will see the NOW HIRING jobs around and the recruiters keep calling, job fairs )

Denise, I'm sorry, that really bites.  I'm most sorry that they are jerking your hubby this way, with new guy taking vacation.  I hope the work life improves for him as I'm sure he has a very bitter taste in his mouth right now.


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## laurac260 (Dec 15, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> I wouldn't want to wish the newhired 'boss' who gets to go on HIS vaca any bad luck, but I hope his zipper rusts shut.
> 
> This is a good time to believe in karma. He'll get his.
> 
> ...



Why does the boss need to "get his"?  What exactly did he do to deserve that?  I agree that this really does suck for Denise, but at some point during the new bosses' hiring process I'm sure he said, "I already have a vacation booked with me and the Mrs's to go to Miami, or wherever."  And they said no problem.  Now here it is, time for them to go, and someone says hey, we can't have both guys gone.  Who is going to get stuck with the short stick?  Well, unfortunately Denise's husband did.  It isn't fair to Denise's husband to be sure, but it would also be unfair to new boss if he was told he could have that week off, so he quit his current job, went to his new job, and then was told "oops sorry, etc."  I'm sure new boss got it in writing, as others of us have done.  For every job I've ever started new, I was always told that vacation kicks in one year after hiring.  One new job I had, I had already had a week planned (my honeymoon), and I negotiated to get that week off with pay.  You bet I got that in writing.  Once it is written, the company is on the hook for it.   Denise's husband had no such written agreement for said week.  

It could be worse though Denise.  We had to cancel our trip to Phoenix/Scottsdale to leave in 3 days because DH is going instead to see his mom who is having the rest of her pancreas removed.  The cancer has come back.  But Phoenix isn't going anywhere, and neither is Hawaii.


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## learnalot (Dec 15, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> Why does the boss need to "get his"?  What exactly did he do to deserve that?  I agree that this really does suck for Denise, but at some point during the new bosses' hiring process I'm sure he said, "I already have a vacation booked with me and the Mrs's to go to Miami, or wherever."  And they said no problem.  Now here it is, time for them to go, and someone says hey, we can't have both guys gone.  Who is going to get stuck with the short stick?  Well, unfortunately Denise's husband did.  It isn't fair to Denise's husband to be sure, but it would also be unfair to new boss if he was told he could have that week off, so he quit his current job, went to his new job, and then was told "oops sorry, etc."  I'm sure new boss got it in writing, as others of us have done.  For every job I've ever started new, I was always told that vacation kicks in one year after hiring.  One new job I had, I had already had a week planned (my honeymoon), and I negotiated to get that week off with pay.  You bet I got that in writing.  Once it is written, the company is on the hook for it.   Denise's husband had no such written agreement for said week.
> 
> It could be worse though Denise.  We had to cancel our trip to Phoenix/Scottsdale to leave in 3 days because DH is going instead to see his mom who is having the rest of her pancreas removed.  The cancer has come back.  But Phoenix isn't going anywhere, and neither is Hawaii.



Denise's husband had approval in writing for his vacation but it seems to matter little.  

IMO, the person who approved the leave of either DH or the new hire should be the one to pick up the slack, especially if it is the same person who approved both.

JMO.

I am a believer in servant leadership.  As such, if I were the new hire, I would be extremely uncomfortable taking vacation and bumping a colleague's long planned trip to Hawaii - especially so close to the travel dates.


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## sail27bill (Dec 15, 2011)

So sorry this had to happen to you Denise.  I hope you have a nice time on your weekend trip.  It may not be Hawaii, but I am sure you will have an enjoyable time. 

Have had this happen to us, but it was the reverse.  My husband had vacation time planned but one of his reports asked if it was possible to overlap for family reasons.  My husband instead let them have the week off as he felt it was the right thing to do (Note: this was an extra vacation that I was planning for him especially--I must admit I was perturbed as he works hard and I wanted him to have this time off) but my husband felt that it was the right thing to do.  

Anyway, he was planning on rolling over this vacation to next year only to now be told...sorry you can't roll over any days to the following year anymore--it is either use them or lose them.  Work is so busy for him that he can't take off.  Thus he lost a week.  When I point this out--his attitude is "At least I have a job". He believes in Karma and always doing the right thing. (Maybe it will pay off one day and we will win the lottery.  I can hope can't I?) 

I just hope that your husband's boss remembers what DH gave up (money and time-wise) next year when it comes to vacation scheduling.  He should be first in line no questions asked.  A new boss might want to flex their muscle, so playing along now might be helpful later.

Good luck to you Denise, and may you have a wonderful weekend trip and a happy holiday season.

Anita


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## Culli (Dec 15, 2011)

Denise I totally sympathize with you, I had a similar thing happen to me for my wife's 40th.  Had the plans and actually moved at my own cost once due to a work conflict.  Then they had a "workshop" for us that I needed to present at and was told I have to be there.  I didn't want to rock the boat in this economy so I just let my VP know I had plans and will move at my own cost.  He felt bad but I thought a few hundred was worth the good will it would buy me.  I'm not in jeopardy of being cut but you have to pick your battles.

Now the worse part is due to "corporate meetings" for the big big wigs it got moved.   I got lucky and actually had my flights change by United so I called and said NO WAY unacceptable and they refunded me the tickets.  I then saved the room as my Mom, Wife and 2 of our 4 kids were to go.  I was to stay home, but now that this got moved I got a cheap ticket and I'm going too!!!  

Still not the best as this was to be my Wife's 40th and celebrate with another couple.  I guess my point is sometimes all the "you should have or I would have.....done X" sounds great.  But when faced with the situation you have to sit back and say is it really worth it?  If handled right you might be able to turn it into the good will bank and use it later.  

Denise I think you made the decision and in the long run you will be happy you did what you did!  I'm sorry it happened and have fun in Tahoe.


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## laurac260 (Dec 15, 2011)

learnalot said:


> Denise's husband had approval in writing for his vacation but it seems to matter little.



I did not see anywhere in Denise's posts that her husband had approval for that particular week in writing.  Perhaps I missed it.  It would be my guess that the new boss *had *that week in writing in his hire letter.  I know that's what I did.


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## Margariet (Dec 15, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> In the US, most people don't have contracts at all, and most management positions are not union positions.



Amazing, I learn every day!   That would really be impossible in my country. We consider working without contract illegal! That would mean that you are not entitled to insurance, any benefits when you get unemployed or sick, and no pension rights, etc. Even voluntary workers do have contracts and insurance in my country. Anyway, good luck with it, and do still enjoy your holidays!


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## Culli (Dec 15, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I did not see anywhere in Denise's posts that her husband had approval for that particular week in writing.  Perhaps I missed it.  It would be my guess that the new boss *had *that week in writing in his hire letter.  I know that's what I did.



Good point I have done that 3 times including taking a promotion with in my current company.  I accepted and had the agreement I had vacation on x day etc and that would be honored.


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I did not see anywhere in Denise's posts that her husband had approval for that particular week in writing.  Perhaps I missed it.  It would be my guess that the new boss *had *that week in writing in his hire letter.  I know that's what I did.



Yes - He had it approved in writing a year ago, and then when the new boss come on in Oct., the new boss approved it again - makes no difference.


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## learnalot (Dec 15, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I did not see anywhere in Denise's posts that her husband had approval for that particular week in writing.  Perhaps I missed it.  It would be my guess that the new boss *had *that week in writing in his hire letter.  I know that's what I did.



Well, I can't say for certain other than Denise's OP said that the vacation had been "officially approved" over a year ago.  I don't know what their mechanism for approval is, but everywhere I have worked, there is a form you submit and someone approves in writing by their signature.


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## Phydeaux (Dec 15, 2011)

I'd be looking for a new job, post haste.


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

Phydeaux said:


> I'd be looking for a new job, post haste.



He is only a few years from retirement, so this isn't an option.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 15, 2011)

djs said:


> Seems if that ship has sailed.



I was going to ask if his boss is e.bram? ...but in reality - same thing...

Sorry to hear Denise - In my profession - I often worry that something will come up when we plan so far in advance... enjoy Tahoe.


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## MommaBear (Dec 15, 2011)

One of the many excellent things I have read on TUG was the advice about swallowing the bitter pill- you can either hold onto it and remain bitter, or you can swallow it so the next thing you can taste can be sweet.

In this economy we all hold on to the jobs we have knowing that it may be difficult if not impossible to get a new job in a timely fashion. 

Denise, it sounds like you are working at swallowing the bittter pill and moving on. Enjoy Tahoe- it is one of my favorite places in the whole world.


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## ricoba (Dec 15, 2011)

I like everyone else empathize cause this whole thing just sux. 

But, with your further explanations etc, it does make it sound like you are trying to make lemonade out of this lemon.

Have a great time in Tahoe.


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## Tacoma (Dec 15, 2011)

Denise

So glad to hear you're making the best of a bad situation.  It sucks but you definitely see the big picture. The job is more important and hopefully it will create  goodwill towards your husband.
 I can say that as a teacher I am getting very tired of parents taking out their high school students for a vacation and just assuming the school (teacher) will do everything possible for them. Some are understandable but most are just parents wanting to save money.  One grade 12 girl is missing 8 of the last 10 days of classes in the semester so they can go on holiday to Hawaii mid week before Christmas  We leave the 24th and paid almost $900 per person for airfare over the break but that is the price we have to pay for a family vacation.

Joan


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## Big Matt (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm not being cavalier at all.  I just can't sit there and let someone else dictate my life for me.  I worked for a very large, well known company for years and was in several situations that forced me to compromise my principles for a couple years.  I got to the end of my rope and resigned.  

I think that you assumption that I'm independently wealthy or well to do is offensive whether I am or not.  



Talent312 said:


> Are you independently wealthy, or just fabulously well-to-do?
> Some of us cannot take our livelihoods quite so cavalierly.


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## Big Matt (Dec 15, 2011)

Doing a poor job will just get you fired anyway.  I think it's better to either face up to the management with a complaint or leave.  At least you can exit with your head up high and know that you kept your pride.



am1 said:


> I am sure a lot of people would as well but people needs jobs.  The better way to protest is to do a half a$$ job while looking for a new one.
> 
> This will result in the employee not doing their best so they may as well enjoy it.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 15, 2011)

Talent312 said:


> Are you independently wealthy, or just fabulously well-to-do?
> Some of us cannot take our livelihoods quite so cavalierly.



I am not independently wealthy or fabulously well-to-do.  

I do have strong feelings about what the proper way is to run a business in my professional field, and that has led me to leave my job on several occasions, including once in my late 1950's when I had relatively dim prospects of being hired by another company because of my age and the conditions in my industry at the time.  Maybe I don't make a good "team player" because I don't just drop into step when I know that things are being done poorly and that people are getting screwed over by small-minded bosses and by big bosses who are too blind to see how they are being played by their direct reports.  

I trust that if I have good principles and I hew to those principles that I will get through.  So far that has always worked for me.  I have a stable of clients who know me and trust me.


********

Perhaps a bit off topic, but it's tangentially related to the topic of job security.  

I think the best thing that someone can do for job security is to get into sales where a key component of the sales process is personal relationship (which is almost always the case with large ticket items).  You can build a network of people who know you and trust you, and if you lose your current job those relationships will come with you and help you get a new job.  The person who is at the mercy of their employer is the person whose livelihood depends on being fed by someone else in the company. 

If you want to have security, strive to be the person who is feeding work to others, and not be in a situation where you are counting on others to feed you.  When you are relying on someone else to feed you, that person is your master.


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## DebBrown (Dec 15, 2011)

So sorry!  I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes.  We leave for 2 weeks in Argentina on the 25th.  My employer has brought in a contractor who is a recently retired co-worker to cover for me.  I'm glad to be able to to leave guilt free and now appreciate my bosses just a bit more.  

Every situation is different but I'm glad I've never had to let work come between me and a vacation!

Deb


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## post-it (Dec 15, 2011)

Sorry Denise about your trip.  We had this happen twice due to layoffs during this recession.  You're right about the $400 cost being better then loosing the tickets completely, and just remember in 5 yrs when he retires you two can travel whenever you like!


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## DeniseM (Dec 15, 2011)

I think I have DH talked into going to Las Vegas for a few days!  Woo Hoo!


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## Beefnot (Dec 16, 2011)

Your husband's boss knew in advance that both of them were planning to be on vacation the same week. To learn at the 11th hour that both of them being on vacation at the same time is unacceptable is, well, unacceptable.


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## Talent312 (Dec 16, 2011)

Many lines of work carries with it not only a variety of compensations, but also jerks for bosses and BS from co-workers. A job that does not involve the latter is, I submit, a myth. Its important to accept that one is likely to encounter "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" in any job.

Quitting on impulse over a singular issue of disrespect, while momentarily self-satisfying, fails to address consequences which can be significant, especially as one approaches retirement and the promise of a comfortable lifestyle. To blithely suggest otherwise ignores the benefits of rational decision-making.


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## MuranoJo (Dec 16, 2011)

K&PFitz said:


> It's a tough time for us middle-aged, late in career guys.  You walk on eggshells hoping your company doesn't have to cut back staff or that the boss doesn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed.
> 
> Not too long ago, you could say goodbye to a boss like this, and get hired the next day.  Now it seems like 30 years experience counts against you.



This was my initial thought, too, when I read that he was 5 years from retirement.


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## MuranoJo (Dec 16, 2011)

geekette said:


> Sorry, I don't buy the whole "we have to shut up to keep our jobs" stuff.  I'm middle age, not a guy, but I can not be taken advantage of without my permission.  Others can say Yes Sir, May I have another, but not me.  I stand up for myself, and yes, sometimes, there are consequences.  But, being true to myself and being happy on the job is worth it To Me.  Once a job is ruined for me, that's it, I gotta go.



I can totally relate to this position, up to a certain point.

What if you're just a couple of years from retirement, or closer?
Or, what if you're not financially ready for retirement or unemployment?

A friend left (a technical job at a pre-retirement age) because she refused to be taken advantage of, and she has remained unemployed ever since.  It's been several years of no job and it is NOT a nice picture for them.

Not advocating someone let his/her employer abuse them, but within close retirement age, I'd certainly make my sacrifice clear and then keep going.  In my 30s or 40s, I'd have an exit strategy and act on it.


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## jehb2 (Dec 16, 2011)

That really does suck.  My husband's company has a policy that if you do not use all of your vacation days this year, your next years vacation will be reduced by that many days.  That's the way it should be.  In other words you better take your vacation or else.

At my sisters company, vacation requests are somewhat automated and handled by a totally separate department.  You never go through your bosses.


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## geekette (Dec 16, 2011)

muranojo said:


> I can totally relate to this position, up to a certain point.
> 
> What if you're just a couple of years from retirement, or closer?
> Or, what if you're not financially ready for retirement or unemployment?
> ...



we all make our choices, do what we feel we need to.    

I will also say (possibly quite unpopularly) that some of the "haven't worked since" don't want to work.  I know several of those people - got offers they wouldn't take because it just wasn't Good Enuf.  If you're unemployed long term, how wonderful does the offering have to be??  I will never be able to wrap my head around that one, but I've been responsible for earning money since I was 15 and there are ALWAYS jobs, no matter how bleak the evening news makes it out to be.   

I know that I do not have the same mindset as many others, but I am a Do What It Takes person, nothing was handed to me, and I have no family safety net to bail me out, no wealth to speak of.  BUT, I choose to not be in a bad work environment longer than I must.  I will confirm right away that this choice has caused salary fluctuations, but, trading money for happiness is a compromise I'm willing to make.

I did not escape job loss in the downturn, and who is ever "Financially Ready" for that??  Closer to retirement, I could withstand it easier because I could tap assets I cannot tap now without severe penalties.    I kept an eye on those crappy min wage jobs because I knew I would take one or 2 if it came to it vs tapping retirement $, all the while keeping my eye on the prize of a Great Job.  I'm going to make my financial commitments, Failure is not an option, and unemployment benefits aren't something I can live on past a few months.   

I took a crap job in my industry when I was in a situation of Gotta Work.  Didn't stay long, went on to better things.  Were I in a pickle, I'd flip burgers but it didn't come to that.  When it comes to meeting my bills, there is no shame in honest work, nothing "beneath me".  I'm no princess, I'm responsible for myself and how long I work, how much I save, the types of jobs I will take, the types of employers I will commit to long term.  These are my choices, options everyone has.  

Things could change a bit on the edge of planned retirement, but if I get things right, it's not going to be a critical situation to sit on the sidelines for 6 months while waiting for the right thing for me to re-enter the workforce.  That's what my retirement savings are for, when I'm older and not working.  If it's a little early, well, no reason to panic, just keep chugging on with a tighter belt and vigorous quest for income.   

I believe that ageism does exist, but Americans are working longer.  We should expect more gray hair in the office now and going forward.  I will not let my advancing age convince me I'm not worthy, that I am now open for abuse.   I don't buy it.  Yes, I am an eternal optimist, but I sincerely believe that there is always a place for someone willing to do the job.  Is a paycut better than unemployment?  Make your own choice, but I'd take the paycut if it's a job I want to do, or I Have To work.  I'd take a paycut all the way down to min wage if I had to.

I'm willing to accept the consequences of my hard line and one consequence could be working past planned retirement age.  If those are happy working years vs hitting Retirement Date at a beat-em-and-crap-on-em place, it's a good trade for me.  I understand that others have A DATE to hit and so will suck it up because it's worth it to them.  No shame in that, either.  I just simply cannot continue to show up somewhere that I don't want to be, or where they don't want me.  I've met too many bitter people that feel stuck and I will not be one of those.   There has always come a point when I knew it was time to leave, or knew it was a temp job from the start.

All that crap said, I do not believe D's husband will encounter that.  I think more likely this is a massive cluster** where he got the gooey end of the rawhide, and I hope new boss sucks up to him like nobody's business and does his damnedest to make it up to him.  I would simply like her husband to continue to have a job he wants to go to.  I want that for everyone!  I am lucky to have a wonderful job that I wake up wanting to come to, but, I have to have that.  If the job isn't satisfying, if the environment is toxic, it's not a long term prospect for me.  I will make tracks asap.

I simply know for myself that an unhappy work situation taints the rest of my life with it.


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## m61376 (Dec 16, 2011)

Denise- sorry things worked out this way. While unfair, life isn't always fair and sometimes you're better off just rolling with the punches and venting elsewhere (as you've clearly done).  I am surprised though that the company won't pick up the financial loss at the very least.

It is easy to say "just get another job," but today's realities often makes that difficult at best. Sometimes you just have to swallow hard for the greater good   it does sound like something is very amiss in their management; I know my hubbie would cancel his plans before those of an employee, as it should be. 

Glad you are able to salvage a getaway weekend to relax and, while I know it is hard, try not to let the aggravation spoil it.


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 16, 2011)

Denise, I find it deplorable that your DH's company handled this in such a shabby manner especially without what would appear to be an appropriate level of remorse or empathy to him and his family.

Beyond that, I do not feel it is appropriate for any of us in the peanut gallery to chime in with advice.  Everyone's circumstances are different and only living "in the moment" as an employee of the company in question, can someone really form an objective opinion as to how to handle the situation.  It sounds to me like Denise's DH is doing the best he can for his circumstances.

I do not envy your DH Denise. I've been on both sides of the situation regarding canceling a pre-approved vacation.  It sucks, no doubt, but sometimes it simply cannot be avoided.

I hope you are able to make the most out of the plans you've been able to put together in place of your Hawaiian vacation.  I realize it won't be Hawaii.  Who knows?  Maybe you'll win some mega jackpot in Vegas and he can go back to work with his resignation.


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## DeniseM (Dec 16, 2011)

Timeshare Von said:


> Maybe you'll win some mega jackpot in Vegas and he can go back to work with his resignation.



I do too - but guess what - he would never quit without notice.  He is a very dedicated employee, and because of his personal work ethic, he would never flake out on a job.  

He works long hours without any extra pay, and is the last one to leave every day.  There is a reason the VP wants him there to start the project - and not the General Mgr.  Hopefully, he will be rewarded for his dedication.  If not, we will just continue to look forward to retirement.


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## Elan (Dec 16, 2011)

The thing about giving advice as to a course of action is that everyone's situation is different.  I occasionally get irritated at work, but I get to work on bleeding edge high tech while living in a magnificent part of the country.  On my 12 minute daily commute, I stop more often for wildlife than I do stop lights.  If I were to quit my job, I could not get another job doing what I do unless I wanted to move my family somewhere like San Jose or Boston.  No thanks!  

  It sucks that the OP's husband was treated the way he was.  OTOH, being so close to retirement means it's a fairly insignificant inconvenience in the grand scheme of things.  

  We all have different priorities and tolerance levels.


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## spirits (Dec 16, 2011)

*This brings back memories*

As I am reading this post I am forever grateful for all the Tuggers and the collective wisdom found on these pages.  4 years ago I was put into a terrible position by having to choose whether or not to return to a toxic working environment after my holidays. I was close to retirement but it was a job I  loved and did not want to leave on bad terms.  It really tore me apart and I recieved great advice from this forum.  I did decide to return, made peace with those responsible ( that took a few years and lots of soul searching)  I knew I was angry at the way I was treated but I would not let that anger make me into a person I did not want to be.  I treated all courteously and found I had great inner strength.  Two years later I had to take a leap of faith and accept another position I did not want and was not looking for.  It turned out to be a great position.  I escaped a toxic environment and worked a super year with a wonderful partner.  Just last week the s*** hit the fan with a lot of coworkers(myself included)  I will not go down that path again and am taking the high road this time.  The only difference is that I am speaking the truth, if asked, not withdrawing like in the past. I am keeping my side of the street clean and others will need to do their own.
I do not know what will happen in the next few days, there are many unhappy coworkers.  The bosses (the top one is new) have made their decisions without consulting others and many are unhappy because they feel they are being manipulated like before.
But due mostly to the wisdom found here, this is one Tugger who has their head on straight and will stand up for themselves but accept what needs to be. Thanks everyone and Merry Christmas and Joy of the Season to all.
Denise, I think everyone at work is watching and is aware.  How your husband acts in this situation will not go unnoticed. It sounds like he is doing the right thing.  I hope the bosses of his boss are noticing and I think they are.


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## Passepartout (Dec 16, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I do too - but guess what - he would never quit without notice.  He is a very dedicated employee, and because of his personal work ethic, he would never flake out on a job.
> 
> He works long hours without any extra pay, and is the last one to leave every day.  There is a reason the VP wants him there to start the project - and not the General Mgr.  Hopefully, he will be rewarded for his dedication.  If not, we will just continue to look forward to retirement.



Denise, you are married to a classy guy. Stick it out with a long weekend or two away. Accept that others in the company will notice, and when the time comes to retire in 5 years, walk away with head held high.

Too many today will tell their boss to 'take this job and shove it' when the going gets rough or they are asked to do some 'extra' for the good of the enterprise. 

A tip of the ol' fedora to him. And incidentally to you, too, for all the hours you put in as one of the most sharing and unselfish TUG volunteers.    

Jim


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## "Roger" (Dec 16, 2011)

Denise,

I agree that it sucks, but I think that the proper course of action is just to accept what happened.  From what you have said, I don't think that there is anything that your husband's boss's boss (the decision maker) doesn't already realize.  Creating a fuss will just irritate him and nothing productive is likely to come out of it.

I also strongly suspect that your husband's boss gets to go on his vacation while your husband has to cancel your planned trip to Hawaii is because the next person up the line (your husband's boss's boss - the decision maker) trusts that your husband can do the needed work but feels less secure about your husband's boss.  Yes, your husband's boss is being paid more and should be able to do the work, but in corporate America there is nothing unusual about this situation.  (One year, my wife's boss earned a big enough bonus to add a large extension to his house, all on the merits of what my wife did while he just sat by.  Irritating, but eventually my wife was rewarded.  That does not always happen.  People who think that corporate America is just this model of efficiency haven't been in it.)

Hopefully, the total benefits of having worked for his company have been worth incidents like what you are currently experiencing and in the long run your husband's sacrifice will be properly rewarded.

Best wishes ...


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## HatTrick (Dec 16, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> ... that has led me to leave my job on several occasions, including once *in my late 1950's* when I had relatively dim prospects of being hired by another company because of my age and the conditions in my industry at the time.



Dude, old! Are you a vampire?  :rofl:


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 16, 2011)

HatTrick said:


> Dude, old! Are you a vampire?  :rofl:



There can be only one.


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## pjrose (Dec 16, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> that has led me to leave my job on several occasions, including once in my late 1950's .





HatTrick said:


> Dude, old! Are you a vampire?  :rofl:





T_R_Oglodyte said:


> There can be only one.



Just look at his picture


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 16, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I do too - but guess what - he would never quit without notice.



Sorry to have been unclear . . . I wouldn't suggest quitting without notice Denise.


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## tombo (Dec 16, 2011)

I love the people posting here to quit, make them pay for your trip, go over his bosses head, go anyway, call HR, etc, etc, etc. Do any of these people posting these things understand 9% unemployment, the lack of hiring of over 50 people by many corps, the fact that the average college graduate is expected to take 18 months to find a job, any job, the number of qualified white collar workers begging for a decent paying job, how many people there are in his company below him in pay/rank who would love his job? If he shows resentment, reduces the quality/amount of wrk he does, shows insubordination, etc I assure you he can and will be replaced. Except for the owner everone can be replaced.To pout, quit, or go over your bosses head because you missed a planned vacation could be mistaken for lack of dedication and have future negative career implications. 

Many things you have to do to remain employed are not fair or fun. Most salary people work more than 40 hours with many high acheivers working 70 or more hours a week. Many people never get to take all of their vacation/sick days to show dedication. On many private for profit non government/non union jobs if you are constantly wanting to be off, leaving early, coming in late, and/or not coming in because you feel bad are all things looked at as lack of dedication by many bosses. Lack of dedication leads to lack of promotions, raises, and are usually the people who are first fired/laid off.

Years ago my boss informed me that I could not go on a vacation I had planned a year in advance. I told him my wife had taken off for those dates, that some of my deposits were non-refundable, and that that we really wanted and deserved to go on the trip as planned. He said well we are short handed and that I needed to decide which was more important to me, my job or my vacation. In my fantasy world I told him to take that job and shove it. What I really said is of course my job is more important than any vacation. We will just have to make that trip some other time. 

 On principle I could have gone on vacation and possibly been unemployed when I returned. Rather than risking financial sovency on principle I instead stayed employed and continued to meet my financial obligations for myself and for my family. We missed the trip, I didn't get reimbursed, I didn't call HR, and I didn't pout. I did what it took to keep my job. I did quietly begin looking for another job but I did not leave until I had found another comparable job. And when I quit for the other job I did not burn the bridge. I thanked them for the time there and said I was leaving because I felt it was a better opportunity for my family. In the real world you not only need a job and income, you also need references to get your next job.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 16, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Just look at his picture



It's why I never thought, "vampire," but maybe he's a zombie?


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## DeniseM (Dec 16, 2011)

Timeshare Von said:


> Sorry to have been unclear . . . I wouldn't suggest quitting without notice Denise.



Oh I know, but I wish we'd win the lottery and he COULD quit!


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## BocaBum99 (Dec 16, 2011)

tombo said:


> I love the people posting here to quit, make them pay for your trip, go over his bosses head, go anyway, call HR, etc, etc, etc. Do any of these people posting these things understand 9% unemployment, the lack of hiring of over 50 people by many corps, the fact that the average college graduate is expected to take 18 months to find a job, any job, the number of qualified white collar workers begging for a decent paying job, how many people there are in his company below him in pay/rank who would love his job? If he shows resentment, reduces the quality/amount of wrk he does, shows insubordination, etc I assure you he can and will be replaced. Except for the owner everone can be replaced.To pout, quit, or go over your bosses head because you missed a planned vacation could be mistaken for lack of dedication and have future negative career implications.
> 
> Many things you have to do to remain employed are not fair or fun. Most salary people work more than 40 hours with many high acheivers working 70 or more hours a week. Many people never get to take all of their vacation/sick days to show dedication. On many private for profit non government/non union jobs if you are constantly wanting to be off, leaving early, coming in late, and/or not coming in because you feel bad are all things looked at as lack of dedication by many bosses. Lack of dedication leads to lack of promotions, raises, and are usually the people who are first fired/laid off.
> 
> ...



I completely agree.  When I had a job, I did exactly the types of things that you suggest.  Anything else is simply foolhardy. As the owner of a business, I don't have to think of those issues anymore.  That's why I will never go back to working for anyone ever again.

If I did go to work for someone, it would be for $1 per year and a large percentage of the project or business.  If I can't add more value than I take, I don't want to work on that business opportunity.


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## csudell (Dec 16, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I think I have DH talked into going to Las Vegas for a few days!  Woo Hoo!


treat yourselves to hugo's cellar for dinner.  you deserve it!


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 16, 2011)

This is completely reprehensible if Denise's husband isn't well compensated for the cancellation of their vacation. I have worked for numerous fortune 500 companies in the last 20 years and every one might have asked me to cancel a trip under challenging circumstances but they also would have compensated me in some way to make it right. If no compensation is offered I would have a hard time ever feeling good about my job.

Unfotunately some companies do use the bad economy as a way to over load people with work and keep work staff lean. I wouldn't be surprised if that is a factor in this case where the dept is probably short-staffed so they can't handle when one person is absent because every person is spread so thin.

I know in my dept we've had 4 people leave and they have yet to be replaced. Meantime the work loads are increasing and every consultant is covering 12-15 projects whereas in the past it was 8-10.


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## gnorth16 (Dec 16, 2011)

The long term problem with a situation like this is the label that comes with your decision.  Are you seen as a 

1. Team Player but a Pushover
2. Selfish but tenacious and determined

Will that new perception overshadow the work that the individual has done with the company over the years? I think only the person involved can make the best decision.

FWIW, if I had an employee stand up to me and still go on the trip,  I would still see a big positive in that person, even if they didn't do as I wanted.  That is a tough call to make...It takes courage to do that.


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## tombo (Dec 16, 2011)

gnorth16 said:


> FWIW, if I had an employee stand up to me and still go on the trip,  I would still see a big positive in that person, even if they didn't do as I wanted.  That is a tough call to make...It takes courage to do that.



If I told an employee they couldn't go and they went anyway I would have to fire them whether I wanted to or not. You can not give an employee an ultimatum and then not do what you said you would if they disregard your mandate. I see no positive in it for anyone. As a boss they forced my hand and I had to terminate them. They are unemployed in a bad economy. I lost a good employee. They lost a good job.  It is a lose-lose situation. Courage is a noble attribute but it doesn't pay the bills.


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## carl2591 (Dec 16, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> It is a very large company, but since a VP made the decision, there is no sense pursuing it.





maybe time to take the VP's job.  and then cancel his plans..


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## Margariet (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm still amazed by this topic.   And I thought the USA was a country full of lawsuits and lawyers. If I would fire an employee for this I can expect a big lawsuit! This would be no ground for firing. The judge would not grant this. Yes, I can tell an employee not to take vacation when there are urgent circumstances but I would have to compensate! Not fire him! Firing seems very unlogical since I need him obviously more than he needs time off ...


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## tombo (Dec 16, 2011)

Margariet said:


> I'm still amazed by this topic.   And I thought the USA was a country full of lawsuits and lawyers. If I would fire an employee for this I can expect a big lawsuit! This would be no ground for firing. The judge would not grant this. Yes, I can tell an employee not to take vacation when there are urgent circumstances but I would have to compensate! Not fire him! Firing seems very unlogical since I need him obviously more than he needs time off ...



YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO VACATION IN THE USA! In a non govenrment/non union job the emplyer can tell you if, when, and for how long you can vacation and  you have no recourse. You might be promised a week/day off and then told you can't have it off after all. If you take off anyway after being told that you can't the grounds for firing is insubordination, taking off of work without permission, etc, etc. Vacation time is granted voluntarilly by employers. If they tell you that you can't have off and you take off anyway you can and should be fired.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights-33485.html

"Because no law requires employers to provide paid vacation, employers have free reign when it comes to determining how much vacation to offer and to which employees. Employers can provide only a few paid days off a year or a couple of months' worth."

"Companies are largely free to determine when employees may use vacation. For example, an employer may prohibit employees from using their vacation during its busy season. Employers may also set notice rules requiring employees to give advance notice of vacations (and many employers do, to avoid having too many workers out at the same time). Some employers require employees to schedule their vacations well in advance. And employers are free to limit how much vacation time employees may take at once."

As Americans we are guaranteed life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but we are not guaranteed paid vacations.


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## Passepartout (Dec 16, 2011)

Margariet, if nothing else, this thread points out to people like yourself, unfamiliar with the business and working climate in the 'Land of the Free' the business climate here. I can understand your dismay that if a worker defies his/her boss' commands that he/she is subject to termination- especially since it seems the organization needs the workers' skills. Defies logic, doesn't it? But that's the way it is. In the USA, with the economy struggling, and unemployment high- especially for those approaching retirement, many workers will do whatever their bosses say out of fear of losing their job and knowing how difficult it can be for older workers to find similar employment. 

We can only give Denise kudos for standing with her DH and changing their plans to accommodate his bosses wishes. It will make their upcoming retirement that much sweeter.

Back almost 3 years ago now, my boss changed the job assignment I had after 24 years with the company. I felt I couldn't live with the change and retired at 62. I haven't looked back, and feel it was the right and only course of action for me.

Jim


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## uop1497 (Dec 16, 2011)

*DH's boss just canceled our vacation - Hawaii on Dec. 24th!*



DeniseM said:


> I do too - but guess what - he would never quit without notice.  He is a very dedicated employee, and because of his personal work ethic, he would never flake out on a job.
> 
> He works long hours without any extra pay, and is the last one to leave every day.  There is a reason the VP wants him there to start the project - and not the General Mgr.  Hopefully, he will be rewarded for his dedication.  If not, we will just continue to look forward to retirement.



Sorry to heard about your vacation was cancelled by the boss

Sound familiar . My DH is like yours . Sometimes I was so mad at him because he is too nice and honest . He can not tell his boss a lie when I ask him to take a day off ( call in sick or so) .  

In your case, at least you know you will be heading to Vegas instead of Hawaii . So, I hope you will have a good time there

For me, although I already book my hotel stay, I am still waiting to see if he can take 2 days off (after Xmas days) or not .


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## dwojo (Dec 16, 2011)

That really sucks. I had that happen once years ago. After thinking about it for 5 seconds I quit and enjoyed my vacation.


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## ausman (Dec 16, 2011)

tombo said:


> YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO VACATION IN THE USA!



You could be right yet many companies have HR (Human Resource) written policies that do give a right and some of them are quite extensive.

As well there is a general society feeling, I think, employed after one yr 1 week vacation, 5 yrs 2 weeks vacation, 10 yrs 3 weeks vacation. Some companies and government employees expand of that.

As a minimum I would think workers would expect and rebel if social norms were not followed.

Certainly not a Developed Country norm but the US is full of inconsistencies, Health care among them.


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## Ridewithme38 (Dec 16, 2011)

The average in the US is something like 10 vacation days with 8 holiday days...i don't think holiday days are paid in most cases...i know i don't get paid holidays unless i work on them....But i do get 20 vacation days(moving up to 25 mid-next year)


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## MuranoJo (Dec 17, 2011)

dwojo said:


> That really sucks. I had that happen once years ago. After thinking about it for 5 seconds I quit and enjoyed my vacation.



Yeah, I did the same thing...when I was 14 and a waitress.  
And I had the nerve to show up for work upon my return, and was (rightfully) fired.
Two days later, they came to the house and asked me to come back to work.  That could only happen to someone waiting tables in a tourist town in the prime of summer.


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## gnorth16 (Dec 17, 2011)

tombo said:


> If I told an employee they couldn't go and they went anyway I would have to fire them whether I wanted to or not. You can not give an employee an ultimatum and then not do what you said you would if they disregard your mandate. I see no positive in it for anyone. As a boss they forced my hand and I had to terminate them. They are unemployed in a bad economy. I lost a good employee. They lost a good job.  It is a lose-lose situation. Courage is a noble attribute but it doesn't pay the bills.



But the employee was also told (at one point) they could go on the vacation (and planned accordingly), therefore an ultimatum or a mandate would only prove that the boss had made an error and planned poorly.  As a boss, I would be careful to over emphasize my own mistakes rather than putting a "highly valued employee" in a tough situation, especially in a large corporation with HR and numerous capable employees to fill my chair if vacated.

The point in my previous post was if the individual was one of my "go to guys"  for years and he still went on the trip, I wouldn't fire him for it.  I commend individuals who take in all the pertinent information and make tough decision like that.  I also would not have put his job on the line - that's not how you treat your top employees.


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## applegirl (Dec 17, 2011)

Denise, this just totally sucks.  At Christmas of all times!  My sympathies to your husband for having a horrible boss.  Hope holiday cheer comes to you from somewhere but certainly not from his company!  UGH.. 

My best,
Janna


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## MuranoJo (Dec 17, 2011)

tombo said:


> I love the people posting here to quit, make them pay for your trip, go over his bosses head, go anyway, call HR, etc, etc, etc. Do any of these people posting these things understand 9% unemployment, the lack of hiring of over 50 people by many corps, the fact that the average college graduate is expected to take 18 months to find a job, any job, the number of qualified white collar workers begging for a decent paying job, how many people there are in his company below him in pay/rank who would love his job? If he shows resentment, reduces the quality/amount of wrk he does, shows insubordination, etc I assure you he can and will be replaced. Except for the owner everone can be replaced.To pout, quit, or go over your bosses head because you missed a planned vacation could be mistaken for lack of dedication and have future negative career implications.
> 
> Many things you have to do to remain employed are not fair or fun. Most salary people work more than 40 hours with many high acheivers working 70 or more hours a week. Many people never get to take all of their vacation/sick days to show dedication. On many private for profit non government/non union jobs if you are constantly wanting to be off, leaving early, coming in late, and/or not coming in because you feel bad are all things looked at as lack of dedication by many bosses. Lack of dedication leads to lack of promotions, raises, and are usually the people who are first fired/laid off.
> 
> ...



Another one who totally agrees.
In my post #108 (yes, this is an interesting topic), I mentioned a friend who butted heads with management and walked.  She scolded me for hanging in there even though I wasn't happy either.  Insinuated I was letting them walk all over me and didn't have any backbone.

I hung in there because I knew there wasn't much on the outside and I was considering early retirment down the road. Within a short while I got a notice I was going to be laid off; however, I had one month to find another job within the company.  Although the chances of doing this were very slim (there were many layoffs at the time), I busted my butt to land a job in another business unit.  Just this week I had my annual performance evaluation and got an exceptional rating, a raise, a promotion, and a performance bonus...plus my new boss said he was going to delegate some of my more menial tasks to someone else on the team because he wants me to focus on strategy and planning.  

Like my friend, I also have my pride--but I chose not to let a b_tt of a manager determine my future in my life or in that company.  Meanwhile, my friend is still unemployed, burning through her savings, and probably kicking herself for her short fuse.


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## cp73 (Dec 17, 2011)

Its interesting to read all these replys. And its unfortunate he was told he could go and now he can't. But the fact is these times are tough. Companies are tightly staffed and everyone is watching their back. Your husband should feel fortunate they feel they can't do without him. Yeah its a bummer you will lose some money. But thats not near as bad as losing his job. Help him not be angry about this and move on which is sounds like your are doing. You can always go on vacation some other time.


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## scrapngen (Dec 17, 2011)

The world is a small place!

I just came back from picking my DD up from an 8th grade party and was talking to a fellow parent who ended up in a very similar position as you and your hubby, Denise. He had to cancel a week over Christmas at the Waiohai in Poipu. (yes, that's where we'll be, and just around the corner from where Denise expected to be) Same reason. Suddenly was required to work instead of getting his expected vacation. Has obligations and can't fight it, even though he got only 1 and 1/2 weeks notice to cancel!!

Luckily for him, he was renting rather than actually owning the TS or having traded so was able to simply cancel his reservation, but is still out the huge airfare cost. 

Meanwhile, we had picked up another week at Waiohai and thought we were lucky enough to reserve Easter week, however we can't use it now due to MY husband's work. I'm hoping to rent it to him since it's the same spring break, and it would be significantly less than what he'd pay as a straight rental from Marriott...so it might be a win-win for both of us..(altho losing a Kauai trip is never a win) 

 I'm glad you're able to work in a Las Vegas trip, Denise. And I'm so sorry for the situation you found yourself in. I hope there's a silver lining out there and that your hubby has no further troubles with this boss.


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## davhu1 (Dec 17, 2011)

Unfortunately corporate american today, everyone only looks after themselves.  If D's H is such an asset, they would not walk all over him like that without compensation.  I would not be happy or care to work for someone like that.  The VP probably got to his position thru D's H and his colleague's efforts.

I was the go to guy too.  But when the company reorganized, everyone had to apply for a position.  Everyone was ranked and the bottom ones were let go.  I was in a Level 4 position and they gave me back a Level 2 position; the reward for the years of hard work.  Within a few months, I got new job in another company.  Just before submitting my resignation, the vp came telling me I was reinstated to a Level 4 position without any pay loss.  His excuse:  somehow I was over looked .  Do not know if words leaked out I was leaving, but too late.  Best decision they made for me.

Since D's H is close to retirement, he should look for a new position if possible within the company.  Go work for someone else rather than those A******s.  Yes I know, it is hard to leave a position you like so much and been the so long.  But they may treat him better just knowing his looking to leave.


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## tombo (Dec 17, 2011)

gnorth16 said:


> But the employee was also told (at one point) they could go on the vacation (and planned accordingly), therefore an ultimatum or a mandate would only prove that the boss had made an error and planned poorly.  As a boss, I would be careful to over emphasize my own mistakes rather than putting a "highly valued employee" in a tough situation, especially in a large corporation with HR and numerous capable employees to fill my chair if vacated.
> 
> The point in my previous post was if the individual was one of my "go to guys"  for years and he still went on the trip, I wouldn't fire him for it.  I commend individuals who take in all the pertinent information and make tough decision like that.  I also would not have put his job on the line - that's not how you treat your top employees.



Things change.It is not necessarilly an error. New contracts appear that weren't foreseen, employees leave, get laid off leaving you shorthanded etc. Whether things changed or the boss just changed his/her mind the simple fact is that the last directive from the boss was you can't go on this vacation if you want your job. The boss said under current conditions I can't let you off and you MUST BE HERE. As an employee you must be there or begin job hunting after you return form your vacation. It is not a negotiation, it is what your boss says you HAVE to do in order to keep your job.

Just as with children you have to show that actions have consequences. If you tell an employee they can't do something and they do it anyway with no repercussions, all employees will do likewise. You will have no control, be viewed as a weak manager, and eventually demoted or fired. Away from work you can be friends, at work you are a boss who's directives must be followed.


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## dwojo (Dec 17, 2011)

tombo said:


> Things change.It is not necessarilly an error. New contracts appear that weren't foreseen, employees leave, get laid off leaving you shorthanded etc. Whether things changed or the boss just changed his/her mind the simple fact is that the last directive from the boss was you can't go on this vacation if you want your job. The boss said under current conditions I can't let you off and you MUST BE HERE. As an employee you must be there or begin job hunting after you return form your vacation. It is not a negotiation, it is what your boss says you HAVE to do in order to keep your job.
> 
> Just as with children you have to show that actions have consequences. If you tell an employee they can't do something and they do it anyway with no repercussions, all employees will do likewise. You will have no control, be viewed as a weak manager, and eventually demoted or fired. Away from work you can be friends, at work you are a boss who's directives must be followed.


If the boss is still going then he is just an A** on a power trip.


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## tombo (Dec 17, 2011)

dwojo said:


> If the boss is still going then he is just an A** on a power trip.



But as long as he is the boss, what he says goes. Do what he says (within legal and moral boundaries) or go work somewhere else. Not saying it is right. Not defending the boss. Just stating that is the fact of the situation.


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## siesta (Dec 17, 2011)

The boss from national lampoons christmas vacation comes to mind.


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## Patri (Dec 17, 2011)

I once asked for and was granted a particular day off, asked for six months in advance. Approved by a low level supervisor (her responsibility). Near that date find out everyone is supposed to work. I got to keep my day off (going on a trip) because the supervisor had not known about the policy, and the company honored her action.


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## e.bram (Dec 17, 2011)

Finally,Tombo and I agree on something


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## dwojo (Dec 17, 2011)

muranojo said:


> Yeah, I did the same thing...when I was 14 and a waitress.
> And I had the nerve to show up for work upon my return, and was (rightfully) fired.
> Two days later, they came to the house and asked me to come back to work.  That could only happen to someone waiting tables in a tourist town in the prime of summer.


The language I used when quitting made sure my boss would not rehire me.


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 17, 2011)

Everyone who is employed by someone else must make their own decisions as to how much nonsense and b/s they are willing to endure in the name of being employed.


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## l2trade (Dec 17, 2011)

Timeshare Von said:


> Everyone who is employed by someone else must make their own decisions as to how much nonsense and b/s they are willing to endure in the name of being employed.



This is a totally unfair situation, so my sympathy goes out to Denise and her DH.

I agree the decision on how to handle something like this greatly varies upon the circumstances.  I've been faced with that decision at least several times in my life.  

- When I was in college, I had a fun part time job that I absolutely loved.  Unfortunately, the new shift scheduling manager decided to totally disregard my upcoming class schedule the first month of the semester as he didn't consider 'summer season' to be over until then.  I felt he gave me no choice but to drop my classes or quit, so I quit.  While it felt great to have the freedom to make that decision, in hindsight, I wish I had escalated up management before quitting, just to stick up for myself.

- About 10 years ago, I had a job that required significant business travel.  A couple days before a long planned mini-vacation & reunion with old friends, my manager insisted I cancel it to fly right back out on Saturday for a weeklong training.  I protested at first, but my manager made clear it would not be good for me to refuse to do so.  I was lucky he reimbursed my expensive, non-refundable plans.  The training turned out to be totally useless and my manager ended up quitting the company before my next job review.  Go figure!  Within a year, I switched jobs too.  I often wonder what would have happened if I called his bluff.  In hindsight, I wish I did.

I highly value my vacation time.  Next time this happens to me, I hope I will feel I am in a good enough position to challenge it without worrying too much about my job security.  I know it is easier said than done.  Easier when the b/s is high and the paycheck low.  And easier when there aren't other risk factors at play, such as an upcoming retirement.


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## Kal (Dec 17, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> ...led me to leave my job on several occasions, including once in my late 1950's when I had relatively dim prospects of being hired by another company *because of my age*...


 
Hey, you were 8 years old and that's tuff duty!!


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## Kal (Dec 17, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Oh I know, but I wish we'd win the lottery and he COULD quit!


 
Denise - Your hubby has learned something about his Company's managment culture.  If he's that close to retirement, he needs to be very careful as they may very well find a way to get him out the door with little or no cost to them.  They obviously can't be trusted.


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## DeniseM (Dec 17, 2011)

A VERY GENEROUS Tugger just gave us the use of her timeshare in Las Vegas!

Thank you Jacki!  I am so grateful!

Besides losing our Hawaii vacation, I also had to put a beloved pet to sleep this week, and today is the anniversary of my mom's death from cancer, so this is a much needed ray of sunshine at the end of what has been a miserable week for us.

Tuggers are the best - thanks for all your support!


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## SherryS (Dec 17, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> A VERY GENEROUS Tugger just gave us the use of her timeshare in Las Vegas!
> 
> Thank you Jacki!  I am so grateful!
> 
> ...



So happy for you!!!!


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## jerseygirl (Dec 17, 2011)

Woohoo!  Tuggers are the best!


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## DaveNV (Dec 17, 2011)

Denise, you deserve a well-earned break.  Enjoy your [new] vacation!

Dave


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## carolbol (Dec 17, 2011)

Denise,
 Did I.I. allow you a replacement week within 60 days of departure?   I am not sure of II's rules for valid cancellations of exchanges.   Do you know how it all works?  You said you had insurance.  Was it I.I. insurance?  

We are looking into travel insurance for our trip to Aruba in May and have no idea how to value our timeshare losses. 

p.s.  maybe your husband will get a nice bonus for cancelling his vacation.  It's the least his employer can do for a dedicated employee......right???


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## DeniseM (Dec 17, 2011)

We got a flex-change deposit - good for exchanges at 60 days out.  We did not have II insurance.  We have Vacation Guard, which is more like standard travel insurance, but for timeshares - and it's a 1 yr. policy.  

It does not cover fickle bosses.


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## tombo (Dec 17, 2011)

e.bram said:


> Finally,Tombo and I agree on something



Oh crap. Since we agree I must be wrong......


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## pjrose (Dec 18, 2011)

TUGgers Rock!  

     ​


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## TUGBrian (Dec 18, 2011)

what a great gesture, pm me the username of the TUGGER and ill be happy to give her a little xmas present of my own!


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## Sandi Bo (Dec 18, 2011)

Glad to hear things have worked out as well as they have.

One of my favorite quotes (sorry don't remember who from), maybe 7 habits?   'There is no such thing as a good job with a bad boss'. I can certainly atest to that (past employer, my current one is awesome).

Have a great time in Vegas.  Perhaps this is fate and by the end of year you will be posting about the milliions of dollars you won in Vegas and that your husband can now retire.  :whoopie:


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## wackymother (Dec 18, 2011)

Sandi Bo said:


> Glad to hear things have worked out as well as they have.
> 
> One of my favorite quotes (sorry don't remember who from), maybe 7 habits?   'There is no such thing as a good job with a bad boss'. I can certainly atest to that (past employer, my current one is awesome).
> 
> Have a great time in Vegas.  Perhaps this is fate and by the end of year you will be posting about the milliions of dollars you won in Vegas and that your husband can now retire.  :whoopie:



Wouldn't that be great? Have a good time in Vegas, Denise!


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## Zac495 (Dec 18, 2011)

Sorry I was out of touch. I skipped right to the end to see a "happy" ending - so great you can go to Vegas! I think it's horrible. My husband is head of HR and said that would never happen in his workplace - he said even if there was a problem and they needed someone, they would bite their tongue because it was approved. 

I didn't read the entire thread. does your husband work for a big or small company?
Love,
Ellen


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## DeniseM (Dec 18, 2011)

Hi Ellen - He works for the biggest company in his industry.  But since his boss's boss (a VP) does not want both DH and his boss off at the same time, it is not in DH's best interest career-wise to pursue this any further.

Since he has some time off for Christmas, we are making the best of it and going to Las Vegas for a shorter vacation.  Not the same as two weeks in Hawaii, but MUCH better than no vacation at all.  We choose Las Vegas because we can get inexpensive flights from our local airport and LV is a relatively easy place to get last minute reservations.

We considered taking a shorter trip to Hawaii, but we would have had to cancel our award seats, pay $450 to put the miles back in our Acct., and then use twice as many award miles for a new reservation - we didn't have enough miles.  Or pay cash for new holiday airline tickets - about $2,600 at this late date.  We decided it just wasn't worth it for a shorter trip.

Since we thought we'd be in Hawaii on Dec. 25th, we are celebrating with the family today, and we will go ahead with those plans, rather than ask everyone else to change their plans for us, at the last minute.

DH will get to roll the lost week over to 2012.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 18, 2011)

This is why we like to try to take vacations during the off season. This week at my place of work there are three of five bosses out and next week is only a little better. I try to avoid booking vacation the week of Thanksgiving and after, very little chance of a conflict.

One good thing it that being at work when the boss is on vacation, is kind of like being on vacation yourself . You never want to be on vacation the same week as your boss :ignore:


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## tombo (Dec 18, 2011)

I am glad it worked out well for you Denise. I hate your trip got cancelled and I too would be mad if it happened to me. As I said in a previous post it has happened to me in the past and it sucks. The main point I was making is that even though it sucks a lost vacation is not worth jeopardizing a career over. Be thankful he has a job that pays well enough that you can financially afford to spend 2 weeks in Hawaii. Be thankful he has a job period in this economy. 

I have friends who have had to pull their kids out of college because they can't afford tuition, room, board, etc since they got laid off and can't find a job. A very good friend of my family is about to lose his home because he lost his job and can't find anything but minimum wage retail work even though he has experience and a degree.  My wife was laid off from her 18 year long career 2 years ago and is now working for less than half of what she used to make. She used to get about 6 weeks off a year with vacation, holidays, personal days etc. Last year zero paid time off since it was her first year at her new job. This year 2 weeks vacation plus 5 personal days. 5 years from now she will get an additional week off per year. She is currently going to school at night to get her masters while working full time hoping to get promoted at her new job or find a higher paying one somehwere else. My boss was put on notice after 20 years with the company that he might be one of the managers let go or demoted in January. He has a son in chiropractic college, a house note, and other bills he doesn't know how he can possibly pay if he loses his job and his wife doesn't work outside the home. There are a lot of people wishing the worst thing that happened to their career in 2011 was having to cancel a vacation. 

I have come to appreciate my job a whole lot more in the last 2 years than I used to. No longer do I let the little things bother me. When I have to do those things that are useless and dreamed up by someone at the home office who has no idea what it is like in the field I now gladly do it because as long as they ask me to do those things I am employed. I am over 50 and do NOT want to look for a new career at my age in this economy. I hope you and your husband are truly thankful for what you have and that you both have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. 

Sincerely,

Tom


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## billymach4 (Dec 18, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> This is why we like to try to take vacations during the off season. This week at my place of work there are three of five bosses out and next week is only a little better. I try to avoid booking vacation the week of Thanksgiving and after, very little chance of a conflict.
> 
> One good thing it that being at work when the boss is on vacation, is kind of like being on vacation yourself . You never want to be on vacation the same week as your boss :ignore:



Denise I have been reading this thread for a couple of days now. I feel for you!
I would be totally steamed. 

Dioxide I totally agree with your statement! I avoid peak times. Earlier this week I was in the Berkshires at a timeshare with no one in site. We snagged a 2 Bedroom for $229 on RCI. I was watching the snow being made at Jiminy Peak. How sweet it is!


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## applegirl (Dec 19, 2011)

Denise,

I am so glad a fellow tugger was generous with you as you are also a like minded tugger!  I'm sorry you will not be in Hawaii for two weeks but hope you have a lot of fun in Las Vegas.

My best, 
Janna


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## Zac495 (Dec 19, 2011)

Denise,
I have such great pictures (that you have provided over the years) of you and hubby in Hawaii so what a disappointment. I understand it may not be worth the fight with boss (and I'm not suggesting he rethink it - stress enough) but I just need to say that the boss was wrong and your husband did things right.

I hope you post some Vegas pictures!! Have a great holiday!
Ellen


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## presley (Dec 19, 2011)

Enjoy Vegas!  It's been a tough little ride, but now you can breathe easy and enjoy.  :whoopie:


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## DeniseM (Dec 19, 2011)

Last night I completed our airline and car reservations, so now I can focus on finding some great things to do!

THANKS EVERYBODY - your support really helped!

And especially thank you to Jacki!


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## DeniseM (Dec 19, 2011)

tombo said:


> I am glad it worked out well for you Denise. I hate your trip got cancelled and I too would be mad if it happened to me. As I said in a previous post it has happened to me in the past and it sucks. The main point I was making is that even though it sucks a lost vacation is not worth jeopardizing a career over. Be thankful he has a job that pays well enough that you can financially afford to spend 2 weeks in Hawaii. Be thankful he has a job period in this economy.



DH and I were just saying the same thing yesterday - we are very fortunate, and despite our disappointment, we are lucky that we can change plans, and salvage a shorter vacation.


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## geekette (Dec 19, 2011)

gnorth16 said:


> But the employee was also told (at one point) they could go on the vacation (and planned accordingly), therefore an ultimatum or a mandate would only prove that the boss had made an error and planned poorly.  As a boss, I would be careful to over emphasize my own mistakes rather than putting a "highly valued employee" in a tough situation, especially in a large corporation with HR and numerous capable employees to fill my chair if vacated.
> 
> The point in my previous post was if the individual was one of my "go to guys"  for years and he still went on the trip, I wouldn't fire him for it.  I commend individuals who take in all the pertinent information and make tough decision like that.  I also would not have put his job on the line - that's not how you treat your top employees.



I agree.  An otherwise top-notch employee, who planned so far in advance, does not deserve punishment.  

and I would in no way jeopardize A Family Vacation.  At Christmas, if that employee also had kids, NO WAY would I tank the whole holiday due to soem work thing.  Humans come first, always.  I realize that business has no heart, and that is why I seek out management that does care about their people.

Family First, Job Second seems to me to be correct ordering of priorities.

One job I left had a CEO that insisted the job come first all the time.  The nature of the business was not life and death.


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## shagnut (Dec 19, 2011)

Denise, this really sucks. I am so sorry. I've had 3 vacation "episodes" and thankfully they worked out. I was stupid but stuck to my guns.  Kelli was working at K&W under a special work program at her special ed school and told them when she started that she had to be off 3 times a year as she couldn't stay home by herself.  I gave him the exact dates and each time I would remind him apx 1 month ahead. Each time he would give us a hard time .  3rd time he tried again and Iasked him , didn't you write down the dates? No. I never know how many people I need.  Told him, well she's going and she'll be back on such & such a date. You can either keep her or fire her when she gets back. She went back to work and later she walked out. I looked up and there she was at Circuit City. She walked all the way there and was crying but I was proud of her. He made her life a living hell.

Once at CC we had a new boss who was a true "bad ass" He said I could not go on a trip. Told him, well, I guess you can fire me. I was top  ten presidents club at the time. He looked at me and said "are you serious? EXplain this trip was arranged 18 mos out . He said, Boy, are you tough. I think I better let you go.     That was pretty stupid on my part. 

3rd time my co-worker booked a cruise at the same time as me. Because I had seniority on him and had turned my time in b4 him it was mine. I really felt bad about it, because he had already had to cancel once and this was his honeymoon. Our boss called us in and asked me how much I would lose moneywise . We figured it how and he offered me the money if I would reschedule. Win , win, situation.  If it be known I didn't want to ruin my co workers honeymoon .  

Now, todays workplace is a lot different than it used to be. The last boss was the best one I'd ever had. If all managers were like him the world would be a  betterplace.   shaggy


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## LAX Mom (Dec 20, 2011)

Denise,
I'm so glad you were able to salvage some vacation days. 
Hopefully your next Hawaii vacation (probably next summer?) will be even better because you will be so thrilled to finally be there!
It's great that a TUG friend was able to get you a week in Las Vegas. Hope you have a wonderful time!


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## sfwilshire (Dec 28, 2011)

My boss didn't cancel my vacation when he told me to be in SLC for two weeks. I reminded him that my non-refundable reservations started on Friday of week 1. He told me not to go. Then on a Thursday told me to be there on Sunday to take part of the duty and he'd send someone else in for the second week. I worked 8PM Wednesday night - 10A Thursday, flew home, packed, and left Friday morning for Florida.

The really bad news is that he loaded me up on work that HAD to be done during my vacation with no extension to any deadlines. One daily report, seven days a week, was especially a pain because I had poor Internet service. I even did the last report in the van on the drive home.

I wasn't happy, but these days I'm just glad to have a job. At least the kids had a pretty decent vacation, though they sometimes had to wait for me to finish a project before we could leave the resort and a couple of times went without me.

Sheila


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