# Open Season rates up?



## buzglyd (Dec 22, 2013)

Or is it just including taxes and fees now.

I'm planning to Open Season a 2BR Premier in King's Land. A five night stay has shown in the past at $840.

Now it's $1025.

Is there really $185 in taxes and fees on this rental period? Obamacare now included?


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## jestme (Dec 22, 2013)

HHV is up too. I wish they would officially post what the new rates are, and why they are different from the Orlando and Vegas rates. They better not be starting to charge the infamous 'resort fee' to timeshare owners too. We already have free wifi as part of our MF's, most people these days use their cell phones instead of the 'in room' phones, and the Hula and yoga lessons aren't worth $30 / day.  
Regardless, it seems a bit silly to be booking rooms without knowing before you book how much they are.


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## Sandy VDH (Dec 22, 2013)

They do charge more for a plus or premium unit over a standard unit.  Is it possible that the only unit left was NOT a standard unit, and thus costs more?


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## presley (Dec 22, 2013)

2013 Open Season rates

http://www.2013clubprogram.com/content/2013-Hilton-Grand-Vacations-Club-Fee-Schedule.pdf

I don't see anything regarding 2014.


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## presley (Dec 22, 2013)

Kings' Land Waikoloa, Hawaii
Unit Type:	 	2 Bedroom Premier
Check-In date:	 	16-Jan-2014  (Thursday after 4:00PM)
Check-Out date:	 	21-Jan-2014  (Tuesday before 10:00AM)
Cost:	 	$1,046.20 total amount (including tax)
*Rate reflects Member with Elite Status, 10% discount from regular Open Season Cash rate.


That's much higher than what their pricing sheet shows.  They must be jacking up the rates for 2014.


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## jestme (Dec 22, 2013)

I have a Lagoon in January, 2BR+, Friday-Sunday. (2 nights), $501.42. YIKES! Something has seriously changed. Last year, it was $182.54 / day for Friday / Saturday. Taxes included.


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## buzglyd (Dec 22, 2013)

presley said:


> Kings' Land Waikoloa, Hawaii
> Unit Type:	 	2 Bedroom Premier
> Check-In date:	 	16-Jan-2014  (Thursday after 4:00PM)
> Check-Out date:	 	21-Jan-2014  (Tuesday before 10:00AM)
> ...



That's what I'm saying.

Just a few days ago it was showing $840. So either they are jacking up Open Season rates or it is showing tax and whatever other fees included.

When I've used Open Season in the past, the tax was added on when you purchased it.

The extra $185 can't be all tax though. I know it's Hawaii but still.


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## buzglyd (Dec 22, 2013)

They must have raised rates for 2014.

Using the 2013 rates, a Thursday through Tuesday should be $840 in a 2BR premier. Now it shows $1025 and then it adds the tax on when you go through checkout.

That's quite an increase.


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## presley (Dec 22, 2013)

buzglyd said:


> They must have raised rates for 2014.
> 
> Using the 2013 rates, a Thursday through Tuesday should be $840 in a 2BR premier. Now it shows $1025 and then it adds the tax on when you go through checkout.
> 
> That's quite an increase.



I agree it's a big increase, but probably still a lot cheaper to pay that than to own there.    I'm actually thinking that most of their properties have open season when I want to travel.  I might add to the problem by offing  most of my points and just paying open season rates.  

eta:  I'm not seeing my 10% discount off of what you are paying.  Smoke and mirrors or just a lousy website?


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## jestme (Dec 22, 2013)

presley said:


> I agree it's a big increase, but probably still a lot cheaper to pay that than to own there.    I'm actually thinking that most of their properties have open season when I want to travel.  I might add to the problem by offing  most of my points and just paying open season rates.
> 
> eta:  I'm not seeing my 10% discount off of what you are paying.  Smoke and mirrors or just a lousy website?



I already own there....


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## SmithOp (Dec 23, 2013)

I posted the question on the HGVC Facebook page, here is the reply:

With the holiday season in full swing, be sure to watch for a Member update from Kim Kreiger in the New Year – highlighting what’s on the horizon for HGV in 2014 and important details about your Club Membership.


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## presley (Dec 23, 2013)

SmithOp said:


> I posted the question on the HGVC Facebook page, here is the reply:
> 
> With the holiday season in full swing, be sure to watch for a Member update from Kim Kreiger in the New Year – highlighting what’s on the horizon for HGV in 2014 and important details about your Club Membership.



 :whoopie:  How exciting to see changes are coming.  
I guess answering your question is too much work during the holiday season.  I hope nobody broke their arm typing that response.


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## Talent312 (Dec 23, 2013)

SmithOp said:


> "...*e sure to watch for a Member update from Kim Kreiger in the New Year..."*


*

I wonder if Kim Krieger pays for his stays at any of the various resorts where
he serves on the BOD. Naw, as a VP, I'll bet he's comped wherever he goes.
.*


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## jestme (Dec 24, 2013)

SmithOp said:


> I posted the question on the HGVC Facebook page, here is the reply:
> 
> With the holiday season in full swing, be sure to watch for a Member update from Kim Kreiger in the New Year – highlighting what’s on the horizon for HGV in 2014 and important details about your Club Membership.



I've already been paying the new rates for three weeks now, I'm sure the decisions about these changes were made long before that. I guess his customers aren't a priority in his mind anymore, as he didn't bother to get around to telling us about it yet. Or, perhaps, Hilton (Blackstone) didn't want anything negative to spoil their IPO. 
Interesting that in the timeshare world, where timeshare reservations typically have to be made long in advance, airfare commitments are already made, (especially to Hawaii), that announcements affecting peoples vacations, travel plans and cost will be made AFTER those plans are either set in stone, or people are already on their vacation.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 24, 2013)

*Big Increase at Some Resorts!*



presley said:


> I agree it's a big increase, but probably still a lot cheaper to pay that than to own there.    I'm actually thinking that most of their properties have open season when I want to travel.  I might add to the problem by offing  most of my points and just paying open season rates.
> 
> eta:  I'm not seeing my 10% discount off of what you are paying.  Smoke and mirrors or just a lousy website?



It is a big increase at Some Resorts.  I checked a reservation at a couple of the resorts in Hawaii and the one in South Beach and the increases are huge, about 30-40%.
I checked Vegas and Orlando and I didn't see an increase at all.

This may be a selected increase in the open season at the most desirable and/or more difficult places to book open season.  The Blackstone Group is not a money making enterprise for nothing.  They can rent rooms in the locations that they are raising rates easily due to limited availability.  The Vegas and Orlando and locations have so much availability both at the Hiltons as well as other resorts and hotels that they probably will reduce rates to help fill up the resort.


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## jestme (Dec 24, 2013)

Tamaradarann said:


> It is a big increase at Some Resorts.  I checked a reservation at a couple of the resorts in Hawaii and the one in South Beach and the increases are huge, about 30-40%.
> I checked Vegas and Orlando and I didn't see an increase at all.
> 
> This may be a selected increase in the open season at the most desirable and/or more difficult places to book open season.  The Blackstone Group is not a money making enterprise for nothing.  They can rent rooms in the locations that they are raising rates easily due to limited availability.  The Vegas and Orlando and locations have so much availability both at the Hiltons as well as other resorts and hotels that they probably will reduce rates to help fill up the resort.



Sometimes, companies bite off their noses to spite their face in the name of short term profits. If the increases are really that high, I will punish them by not spending my usual $2500-$3000 in their bars and restaurants while we are there. I will spend it offsite, and probably save money doing it. That will offset these ridiculous increases in Open Season rates, and help me make a serious decision for next year. Will I go to the HHV next year for a month like I have for the last 10 years, or will I make a change and go somewhere else for the next 10 years, leaving the HHV and Hilton brand name long behind me. 
Summary:
I own there. I bought it from them. I love it there. That is why I bought there. I go there. I spend a LOT of money there. A LOT. I know the waiters, waitresses, wine stewards, and front desk people by first name, and they all know, recognize and acknowledge me when I arrive. Open season is the main reason I bought. DO NOT mess that up. 
BTW, I arrive on Jan 1'st, I hope to hear from Mr. Kreiger long before that.


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## chriskre (Dec 25, 2013)

Have the rates gone up for the affiliate resorts too?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 25, 2013)

*Don't spite yourself to hurt Hilton*



jestme said:


> Sometimes, companies bite off their noses to spite their face in the name of short term profits. If the increases are really that high, I will punish them by not spending my usual $2500-$3000 in their bars and restaurants while we are there. I will spend it offsite, and probably save money doing it. That will offset these ridiculous increases in Open Season rates, and help me make a serious decision for next year. Will I go to the HHV next year for a month like I have for the last 10 years, or will I make a change and go somewhere else for the next 10 years, leaving the HHV and Hilton brand name long behind me.
> Summary:
> I own there. I bought it from them. I love it there. That is why I bought there. I go there. I spend a LOT of money there. A LOT. I know the waiters, waitresses, wine stewards, and front desk people by first name, and they all know, recognize and acknowledge me when I arrive. Open season is the main reason I bought. DO NOT mess that up.
> BTW, I arrive on Jan 1'st, I hope to hear from Mr. Kreiger long before that.



We love the HHV as well as the HGVC at South Beach and will continue to go to them as much as we can.  The South Beach resort is so small that everyone knows us personally, but there is no commercial operation.  At the HHV the resort managers, front desk, concierge, bellmen, valets, and the Hilton area Vice President.  Some of the vendors that we patronize know us, however, we only patronize certain vendors like restaurants and bars once in a while.  One of the major benefits that we find at the HHV is the walkability and short bus rides to so many activities, restaurants, and shops.  Furthermore, we have the kitchen to enable us to prepare meals and drinks in the room.  My husband cooks whenever I tell him to, but I know some of you don't like to cook on vacation or don't have a husband that takes orders.  If that is the case so you can do what we do occasionally and have cocktails or a bottle of wine in the room and walk to Ocean House, Hula Grill, or Dukes for Dinner.  When nothing pressing is going on late in the day or early evening we make cocktails in the kitchen and go to the beach to watch the sunset while listening to the music from the Tropics bar.  We usually use points for our HHV stays so that an increase in the Open Season Rates will have a minimal effect on our plans, however, enjoying some of the economic benefits of the kitchen and location of the HHV can be an economic benefit as well as a way to send a bottom line message to Hilton.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Dec 25, 2013)

jestme said:


> Sometimes, companies bite off their noses to spite their face in the name of short term profits. If the increases are really that high, I will punish them by not spending my usual $2500-$3000 in their bars and restaurants while we are there. I will spend it offsite, and probably save money doing it. That will offset these ridiculous increases in Open Season rates, and help me make a serious decision for next year. Will I go to the HHV next year for a month like I have for the last 10 years, or will I make a change and go somewhere else for the next 10 years, leaving the HHV and Hilton brand name long behind me.
> Summary:
> I own there. I bought it from them. I love it there. That is why I bought there. I go there. I spend a LOT of money there. A LOT. I know the waiters, waitresses, wine stewards, and front desk people by first name, and they all know, recognize and acknowledge me when I arrive. Open season is the main reason I bought. DO NOT mess that up.
> BTW, I arrive on Jan 1'st, I hope to hear from Mr. Kreiger long before that.



No matter what you write here to vent, you will still be spending your money there for next 10 years (since alternatives are not much better in terms of fleecing you) and the switching costs are usually too high (not necessarily in money but your effort and time you will have to spend to research other resorts, etc). These chains know this, that is why HHonors has been devalued so much in the last 2-3 years (but what are Hilton loyalists going to do, since Marriott is not that much better in terms of value of hotel points).


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## presley (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm looking at every little cost on my contracts since I am downsizing.  
Just looking at staying in what I own at Sea World, my open season cost (2013) would be $740.00 for a week in a 2bedroom Gold.- without elite discount.
Cost to own, not considering club dues:
Taxes/Operating fee/Reserve fee = $889.54

For those who can travel on Open Season, I see no benefit it owning more than one small contract.  Of course, you cannot rely on availability, but if you are willing to take any resort in Orlando.....


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## Talent312 (Jan 4, 2014)

Here's the new 2014 version of "The Rules" (appended to the 2013 Guide).
O/S Rates are listed on Page 17...
http://www.2013clubprogram.com/content/2014-HGVClub-Rules.pdf

.


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## chriskre (Jan 4, 2014)

presley said:


> I'm looking at every little cost on my contracts since I am downsizing.
> Just looking at staying in what I own at Sea World, my open season cost (2013) would be $740.00 for a week in a 2bedroom Gold.- without elite discount.
> Cost to own, not considering club dues:
> Taxes/Operating fee/Reserve fee = $889.54
> ...



Or just do an extra vacation or last call in Orlando way cheaper and use the points in the club elsewhere.  I'm lucky enough to live in Florida so I have used this OS benefit often, but you can't beat the value of a last call to Orlando for a full week.   And if you own a dual affiliate those II getaways to Marriotts in Orlando can't be beat.


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## presley (Jan 4, 2014)

Talent312 said:


> Here's the new 2014 version of "The Rules" (appended to the 2013 Guide).
> O/S Rates are listed on Page 17...
> http://www.2013clubprogram.com/content/2014-HGVClub-Rules.pdf
> 
> .



The open season rates are still reasonable to me.  What I don't like are the higher fees to make reservations.  
RESORT RESERVATIONS
Home Week Complimentary
Home Resort or Club (non-Changeable) – Phone $ 76 
Home Resort or Club (Changeable) – Phone 99 
Home Resort or Club (Changeable) – Online 52 
CLUB PARTNER PERKS
Hotel Reservations Using Points $ 76 
Fiesta Americana Hotel Reservations 76 
Other 99 
POINT STRETCHING
HHonors Conversion – Phone $ 99 
HHonors Conversion – Online 76 
Depositing – Phone 99 
Depositing – Online 76 
Rescuing – Phone 99 
Rescuing – Online 76 
Borrowing Complimentary
CONFIRMATIONS
Home Week Complimentary
Guest Week $ 52 


Seems like anything other than home week reservation or open season is too expensive considering that we already pay $136. just to be in the system.


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## toontoy (Jan 4, 2014)

wow open season rates now have 3 seasons and have gone up quite a bit, for most resorts in the off season I have seen rates at Hilton.com averaging about the same, at least for Utah, Vegas and Orlando


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## SmithOp (Jan 4, 2014)

I book online exclusively, rates only up slightly there, it's the world today costs more to interact with a human.

Glad to see it's still free to live in Hilton's pocket, borrow early and often


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## jin (Jan 4, 2014)

SmithOp said:


> I book online exclusively, rates only up slightly there, it's the world today costs more to interact with a human.
> 
> Glad to see it's still free to live in Hilton's pocket, borrow early and often
> 
> ...



I do to, however u can't for affiliate resorts, and they force u to pay the live agent rate which doesn't seem fair....


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## PassionForTravel (Jan 4, 2014)

How could you say that the online rates didn't go up much. On a $ basis maybe true but on a % basis quite big.
- Depositing points > 10%
-Rescuing points > 10%
- On line res > 6%
- Guest fee > 6%

While inflation is in the < 2% range. 

If they had said we are raising the rates because we need to invest to make he online reservation fee better I'd buy that. But what are they doing other than charging us more. The reservation system still has major issues. No affiliates. 

Ian


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## Tamaradarann (Jan 4, 2014)

*Theory about on line Reservation System*



PassionForTravel said:


> How could you say that the online rates didn't go up much. On a $ basis maybe true but on a % basis quite big.
> - Depositing points > 10%
> -Rescuing points > 10%
> - On line res > 6%
> ...



I have a theory about all the rates going up and it has to do with the on line reservation system screw up not the cost of inflation.  Since the on line reservation system has been so ineffective HGVC has had to hire more call center people to handle all the calls.  They have not been charging the call center fees for calls when the on line system has been ineffective, which is most of the time.  Therefore, the money to pay for the additional personnel as well as paying for the software developer  for the new on line system has to come from some place.  Additional owners fees!  Right now they have a double cost increase; more personnel as well as more money for technology upgrade.  Hopefully, in future years things will be ironed out and they can reduce personnel costs through the use of effective technology and not the opposite which has been the case the last few years.


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## Tamaradarann (Jan 4, 2014)

*This is NOT as excuse, it is a possible explanation*



Tamaradarann said:


> I have a theory about all the rates going up and it has to do with the on line reservation system screw up not the cost of inflation.  Since the on line reservation system has been so ineffective HGVC has had to hire more call center people to handle all the calls.  They have not been charging the call center fees for calls when the on line system has been ineffective, which is most of the time.  Therefore, the money to pay for the additional personnel as well as paying for the software developer  for the new on line system has to come from some place.  Additional owners fees!  Right now they have a double cost increase; more personnel as well as more money for technology upgrade.  Hopefully, in future years things will be ironed out and they can reduce personnel costs through the use of effective technology and not the opposite which has been the case the last few years.



By the way I don't offer this as an excuse.  It is an explanation.  I let HGVC know when they started to launch the Revolution System that the Classic System was better and they should drop the Revolution System.  In my opinion, those in HGVC who made the decision to go with the Revolution System system and drop the Classic System should be asked to leave since they will not longer be receiving a paycheck next week to pay for the costs that I detailed in the previous post.  This screw up is costing us owners a lot of money.


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## SmithOp (Jan 4, 2014)

PassionForTravel said:


> How could you say that the online rates didn't go up much. On a $ basis maybe true but on a % basis quite big.
> - Depositing points > 10%
> -Rescuing points > 10%
> - On line res > 6%
> ...



I've already booked 2014 and 2015 points at last years rate.  Club fee increase plus four online reservations a year is what $25 more? 

Get used to it, add on fees are going up in every industry to generate profit to satisfy Wall St.  My 401 made 11.6% last year so it all goes around, comes around.


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## SmithOp (Jan 4, 2014)

toontoy said:


> wow open season rates now have 3 seasons and have gone up quite a bit, for most resorts in the off season I have seen rates at Hilton.com averaging about the same, at least for Utah, Vegas and Orlando



Looks like Gold has it's own season at the old Platinum price and Platinum is bumped up to a new price level.  That makes Hawaii cost more, no bronze or silver there.


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## jestme (Jan 5, 2014)

PassionForTravel said:


> How could you say that the online rates didn't go up much. On a $ basis maybe true but on a % basis quite big.
> - Depositing points > 10%
> -Rescuing points > 10%
> - On line res > 6%
> ...



 Open season rates are up an average of about 20%. That is on top of the 20% increase in 2011. Thats a 50% increase in 4 years. Way over inflation and way more than any price increasse on the hotel side of their business.


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## presley (Jan 5, 2014)

jestme said:


> Open season rates are up an average of about 20%. That is on top of the 20% increase in 2011. Thats a 50% increase in 4 years. Way over inflation and way more than any price increasse on the hotel side of their business.



It's a huge increase, but if you look at the most expensive studio, a studio premeire in Platinum season on a Fri or Sat night, it only costs $145./night.  A comparable hotel room would cost more than that.  An example is staying in a studio at Marbrisa (would be less because they don't have premiere rooms) for $135. or pay the Sheraton on same property $300. for a standard hotel room + taxes.  They share the property, the pools, the spa, the fitness center,etc.  Open season starts to look like a good deal.

A regular 2 bedroom at that season is $170./night in open season.  I paid direct for that a few years ago at Lagoon tower for $450/night + taxes.  So, I can still book open season for less than half of what I used to pay several years ago.  It's a big jump, but I'm still better off than not being an owner.


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## piyooshj (Jan 5, 2014)

presley said:


> It's a huge increase, but if you look at the most expensive studio, a studio premeire in Platinum season on a Fri or Sat night, it only costs $145./night.  A comparable hotel room would cost more than that.  An example is staying in a studio at Marbrisa (would be less because they don't have premiere rooms) for $135. or pay the Sheraton on same property $300. for a standard hotel room + taxes.  They share the property, the pools, the spa, the fitness center,etc.  Open season starts to look like a good deal.
> 
> A regular 2 bedroom at that season is $170./night in open season.  I paid direct for that a few years ago at Lagoon tower for $450/night + taxes.  So, I can still book open season for less than half of what I used to pay several years ago.  It's a big jump, but I'm still better off than not being an owner.



Agreed BUT for the privilege of open season we have paid 30 or 40 thousand dollars (for resale some original buyer) while for renting room at Sheraton those folks have not paid any money for ownership. On top these we pay various kind of fees inlc yearly club dues.


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## jestme (Jan 5, 2014)

Agreed. Also, if they had raised their hotel rates by that percentage, their rooms would be empty. When I bought, the highest room type was 2br+ and 3br+. Now, there are two 'new' room types above that that in each room type are significantly more than the old '+' rooms rates.


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## buzglyd (Jan 5, 2014)

It looks like regular rooms haven't gone up a lot but premier rooms have gone up quite a bit.


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## piyooshj (Jan 6, 2014)

buzglyd said:


> It looks like regular rooms haven't gone up a lot but premier rooms have gone up quite a bit.



Yep now there is big difference between premium and non prem OS rates. Not necessarily a bad thing considering everyone.


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## Tamaradarann (Jan 8, 2014)

SmithOp said:


> I've already booked 2014 and 2015 points at last years rate.  Club fee increase plus four online reservations a year is what $25 more?
> 
> Get used to it, add on fees are going up in every industry to generate profit to satisfy Wall St.  My 401 made 11.6% last year so it all goes around, comes around.
> 
> ...


I posted this thought before this post expressing that everything is going up.  The ineffective Revolution system fiasco has cost HGVC a lot of money in additional personnel to answer the extra phone calls as well as the cost of the pending new reservation system.  These costs are being passed onto the owners.  The increased fees are not just explainable by the statement that everything is going up.  I let HGVC know when they started to launch the Revolution System that the Classic System was better and they should drop the Revolution System. Those in HGVC who made the decision to go with the Revolution System system and drop the Classic System should be the ones that pay for these costs.


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## GTLINZ (Feb 2, 2014)

I just logged in today to look at open season and was floored at the price increases. Gold went up a bit, but plat went up again and is not such a great rate anymore.  A 2br plat has gone from $100/120 2 years ago to $145/165. I understand increases, but this is extreme.

I always thought that open season was a big advantage for HGVC owners. Between this and HHonors devaluation I have lost any desire for owning more HGVC. Any advantages with either system to access units in a desireable season have been severely diminished.


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## jestme (Feb 2, 2014)

GTLINZ said:


> I just logged in today to look at open season and was floored at the price increases. Gold went up a bit, but plat went up again and is not such a great rate anymore.  A 2br plat has gone from $100/120 2 years ago to $145/165. I understand increases, but this is extreme.
> 
> I always thought that open season was a big advantage for HGVC owners. Between this and HHonors devaluation I have lost any desire for owning more HGVC. Any advantages with either system to access units in a desireable season have been severely diminished.



If you are staying in Orlando or Vegas, it is pretty well cheaper to stay in a hotel, even if you have to book two adjoining rooms to get the space you need. On the good side, I expect there will be a LOT more open season availability if you really want it. 
I'm thinking more about the advantages of hotel rooms. You can book them a year in advance, and you know what they will cost. You get maid service, every day. Your check out time is 11:00, not 10. Your check in time is 3:00, not 4. You don't have to change rooms if you don't get all the time in the same room in Open Season. If you stay at a Hilton, you get HHonors points, not only for the room, but for meals charged to it. You don't have to gamble on airfare and hope you can get an Open Season reservation that matches.  Typically, you can cancel or change the reservation without losing all the money. 
Sure brings a bunch of things back into play when the rates get close to hotel rates. I agree it reduces the value of HGVC ownership considerably, when your "preferred rates" are no big deal. In the short term, they may still get people to use it, but it is certainly not the deal it was before, by any means. In the longer term, I expect they will have a lot of empty rooms, especially the higher priced ones.


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