# True Hilton vs. Hilton affilliate



## Carolyn (Nov 12, 2010)

What are the pros and cons to owning a  Hilton affiliate (say Charter Club of Marco) vs. a true Hilton if I join HGVC?  Aren't all points equal?  Thanks.


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## jerseygirl (Nov 12, 2010)

Pros:


Most (all?) trade through II
Location -- this is a personal preference obviously -- if all else fails and the only thing you have left is a deed to a particular resort

Cons:


I don't know about all the affiliates, but the one I own has higher maintenance fees than the "true HGVC" resorts according to posts here on TUG (my upfront costs were lower, but on a "total ongoing basis," my affiliate is more costly)
At least one resort disaffiliated but I think current HGVC members may have been permitted to remain part of the club.  Either way, I think there's a much greater chance of disaffiliation with an affiliate than with a "true HGVC" resort.

I'm sure others will be along to add more!


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## yumdrey (Nov 12, 2010)

affiliated resorts' owners should prepay next year's MF when they use next year's points.
This affiliation can break anytime when HOA decides to use other management co. than Hilton.
True Hilton resorts have ROFR (except Flamingo).


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## jerseygirl (Nov 12, 2010)

As an affiliate owner, I've never had to prepay maintenance fees to use next year's points.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Nov 12, 2010)

yumdrey said:


> This affiliation can break anytime when HOA decides to use other management co. than Hilton.



Chances of that happening are rare, since the value of the ownership is tied to it being "HGVC affiliated" (so HOA is not going to kick out Hilton easily). HGVC also wants to stay involved so that they can show that it has more than just LV, Orlando, and Hawaii.


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## yumdrey (Nov 12, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> As an affiliate owner, I've never had to prepay maintenance fees to use next year's points.



I am sorry, I remember that I have read that issue from this board before, maybe it was just Scotland?


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## RoshiGuy (Nov 12, 2010)

yumdrey said:


> I am sorry, I remember that I have read that issue from this board before, maybe it was just Scotland?



I own in Scotland and did not have to pay 2011 fees to borrow and use 2011 points. I too had read that this might be needed but they didn't require it when I used 2011 points a couple of months ago.


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## Islander7 (Nov 12, 2010)

yumdrey said:


> I am sorry, I remember that I have read that issue from this board before, maybe it was just Scotland?



You may be thinking of The Bay Club.

Your Bay Club Homeowner's Association requires that your Maintenance Fee and Taxes be paid through next year prior to borrowing Points. If you need to borrow points to complete your reservation, please contact a Club Counselor at 1-800-521-3144.


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## Talent312 (Nov 12, 2010)

At some affiliates, you can make an election each year whether to participate or "keep" your unit for your own use.

I seem to recall that at Grand Pacific affiliates, if you buy resale, you cannot join HGVC.


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## jerseygirl (Nov 12, 2010)

I own a fixed week affiliate and a reservation is made automatically for me each year.  I have to cancel the reservation (no fee) to convert to club points.


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## dvc_john (Nov 12, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> I own a fixed week affiliate and a reservation is made automatically for me each year.  I have to cancel the reservation (no fee) to convert to club points.



Same here.  I own at several resorts in SW Florida that were originally developed by Mariner Corp.  When HGVC first started, the plan was that you had a certain period of time to reserve the week you own, or else it automatically converted to points.  That didn't go over very well, and many owners did not join HGVC because of it.  It wasn't long before they reversed it so that the week you own was an automatic reservation, and you just had to cancel it if you wanted the points instead.


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## night0wl (Nov 12, 2010)

dvc_john said:


> Same here.  I own at several resorts in SW Florida that were originally developed by Mariner Corp.  When HGVC first started, the plan was that you had a certain period of time to reserve the week you own, or else it automatically converted to points.  That didn't go over very well, and many owners did not join HGVC because of it.  It wasn't long before they reversed it so that the week you own was an automatic reservation, and you just had to cancel it if you wanted the points instead.



And this is why *NO ONE* can get availability in Sanibel or Captiva.  The owners of these affiliates just rent their week out rather than put it into the HGVC pool.  And the whole system suffers for it.  Pretty lame and one of the reasons I am not recommending HGVC to my family right now...


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## Talent312 (Nov 12, 2010)

For those unaware of HGVC's history with these SW Florida affiliates:
Before HGVC was a twinkle in Baron Hilton's eye, there was the Mariner Corp. When Hilton decided to get into the TS business, it had no clue, but they knew that Mariner did. So they formed a joint venture with Mariner, which became HGVC. For the first 7 years or so, Mariner's officers ran HGVC.

I do not begrudge the SW Florida affiliates owners for not turning their TS's over to HGVC.
Heck, if I owned at Sanibel-Captiva, I doubt that I would.


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## chester1122 (Nov 12, 2010)

I own both an affiliate and HGVC.  As I own Bay Club I must pay my maintenance fees prior to using next year's points.  But once I do, I just move them into my HGVC accound and use them as regular HGVC points.  

Works great for me.


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## chriskre (Nov 12, 2010)

Speaking of Sanibel/SW FL, does HGVC allow an ongoing search to get something in one of the affiliates?  I do see alot of Marco in the Open Season stuff so I'm assuming someone is depositing to the Club.  Who would be depositing if it isn't the owners of those weeks?  

Just curious because I too want to go to Ft. Myers next year in the summer.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Nov 12, 2010)

night0wl said:


> And this is why *NO ONE* can get availability in Sanibel or Captiva.  The owners of these affiliates just rent their week out rather than put it into the HGVC pool.  And the whole system suffers for it.  Pretty lame and one of the reasons I am not recommending HGVC to my family right now...



Same is true for Grand Pacific Palisades resort in California also. Owners do not want to give their weeks to HGVC, but use/rent themselves. To me, this speaks for the strength of the HGVC, as well as the strength of the affiliates.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 13, 2010)

If you want to mostly go to a single affiliate resort (like Grand Pacific Palisades or Sanibel/SW FL) then IMHO, I'd buy at those resorts. But if you want to buy a resort so you can get into HGVC and use mostly HGVC resorts, then I'd buy a true HGVC resort.


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## Blues (Nov 13, 2010)

Bill4728 said:


> If you want to mostly go to a single affiliate resort (like Grand Pacific Palisades or Sanibel/SW FL) then IMHO, I'd buy at those resorts. But if you want to buy a resort so you can get into HGVC and use mostly HGVC resorts, then I'd buy a true HGVC resort.



I agree with this sentiment exactly.  Indeed, it's why, after first purchasing an affiliate in Scotland, I then added a 7000 point week at HGVC Flamingo.

This topic has been discussed several times in the past.  See for example http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97583  My post #5 there still represents my opinion and experience.

For example, at this point in time (Nov 2010) I still don't have access to my 2011 points for Craigendarroch, though I could get access if I called them and jumped through hoops.  Major inconvenience.  And by the time I get access, most of the 2011 time will be reserved by other folks.  OTOH, I've already spent 75% of my 2011 points from Flamingo, with no hassles.

-Bob


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## RoshiGuy (Nov 13, 2010)

Blues said:


> IFor example, at this point in time (Nov 2010) I still don't have access to my 2011 points for Craigendarroch, though I could get access if I called them and jumped through hoops.  Major inconvenience.  And by the time I get access, most of the 2011 time will be reserved by other folks.  OTOH, I've already spent 75% of my 2011 points from Flamingo, with no hassles. -Bob



Bob, I had no problem with getting my 2011 points at Coylumbridge (Scotland) and have used most of those for an upcoming booking in December. I thought I'd have to pay 2011 MF which was fine with me but wasn't asked to do that either.


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## welovekaylee (Nov 13, 2010)

*Hilton Grand Vacation Club*

Beware of purchasing what you are led to believe is an actual Hilton Grand Vacation Club Resort.  We purchased a time share in Carlsbad, CA called the “Marbrisa.”  It is not officially a Hilton Grand Vacation Club Resort.  They have points that transfer to Hilton, but are not part of the Hilton family of resorts.  We were misled and purchased a timeshare only to find out later that they are not officially part of the Hilton Grand Vacation Club of Resorts.

Make sure that if you want to be a part of the HGVC that the timeshare you purchase is an actual Hilton resort.  We learned to regret our purchase after we realized that we were mis-lead by the sales rep.


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## ccwu (Nov 13, 2010)

jerseygirl said:


> As an affiliate owner, I've never had to prepay maintenance fees to use next year's points.



I own various HGVC true and affiliated.  The HGVC maintain two different account for me.  The affiliate Bay Club at Waikoloa Beach Resort has a different member ship # (10-xxxxxx.)  The others is in under my main Flamingo account (4-xxxxxxx,) the first HGVC I got.  Each year I need to call in to prepaid Bay Club and transfer the points into my Flamingo account.  My other new purchase in King's land, Waikoloa Beach resort, Hilton at the strip all automaticly under the main Hilton account.  I also have DRI (Diamond resort international). DRI also maintain two accounts for me, the one I bought from developer and the account I bought from eBay resale.  The DRI resale has more restriction than HGVC. There is no restriction in using points from resale in HGVC for reservation and whatever.  

If you want to upgrade to Elite, HGVC will buy back your second market resale true HGVC resort, not the affiliated one.  I recently upgrade to Elite plus, they said that I had more than enough points to be Elite premier but they would not buy back the affiliated Bay Club.  But good news is they told me once I am Elite plus that I could convert current year not used points to HHoner points by December 31.  The points includes the affiliated resort.


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## alwysonvac (Nov 14, 2010)

*Availability and Online access*

As stated above, one of the differences is availability at some of the non-HGVC developed resorts. 
Also HGVC members don’t have online access to all resorts in the resort collection.

In the 2010 Club Member Guide, there are *50 resorts listed in the Resort Collection*
- *14 out of 50 are HGVC Developed Resorts *(including one that is not part of the HGVC – The Hilton Club in NYC)
- *36 out of 50 are non-HGVC Developed Resorts*

Out of the 36 non-HGVC Developed Resorts
 - *27 are listed with limited availability* under the "Resort Attributes" section for each resort page in the 2010 Club Member Guide
 -  *9 don't state any limitation on availability *

For Club reservations, we only have *online access to 19 out of the 50 resorts* listed in the Resort Collection. Club reservations at the other 31 resorts require a phone call. 
-	13 HGVC Developed Resorts in NYC, Orlando, South Beach, Vegas, Oahu & the Big Island (excluding The Hilton Club in NYC which is not part of HGVC)
-	6 non-HGVC Developed Resorts (Grand Pacific MarBrisa Resort, Grand Pacific Palisades Resort, Carlsbad Seapointe Resort, The Bay Club at Waikoloa Beach Resort, Valdoro Mountain Lodge & Hilton Vilamoura Vacation Club). 
NOTE: Grand Pacific Palisades Resort & Carlsbad Seapointe Resort are only available in the Classic Online Reservation system  (not Revolutions).
NOTE: Some additional resorts are available for online booking during Open Season. For example some of the resorts in Florida & Scotland.

Resorts in the 2010 Club Member Guide without limited availability
NOTE: The resort attribute(s) are listed below following each resort name

*Developed & Managed by HGVC*
1.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club at SeaWorld International Center: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
2.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club on International Drive: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
3.	Parc Soleil by Hilton Grand Vacations Club: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
4.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club at South Beach: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
5.	Grand Waikikian by Hilton Grand Vacations Club: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
6.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Hilton Hawaiian Village – The Kalia Tower: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
7.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Hilton Hawaiian Village – The Lagoon Tower: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
8.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Waikoloa Beach Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
9.	Kings’ Land by Hilton Grand Vacations Club: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
10.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club at the Flamingo: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
11.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club Las Vegas: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
12.	Hilton Grand Vacations Club on the Las Vegas Strip: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations
13.	The Hilton Club – New York: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations   (NOTE: This resort is listed in the Resort Collection by not part of HGVC)
14.	West 57th Street by Hilton Club: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations (NOTE: This resort has a different club reservation window - 44 days before check-in)

*Others*
15.	Grand Pacific MarBrisa Resort: Affiliated Resort 
16.	Carlsbad Seapointe Resort: Affiliated Resort 
17.	Seawatch On-the-Beach Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort
18.	The Charter Club of Marco Beach: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort
19.	Club Regency of Marco Island: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort
20.	Eagle’s Nest Beach Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort
21.	The Surf Club of Marco: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort
22.	The Bay Club at Waikoloa Beach Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort
23.	Club Intrawest – Zihuatanejo: Affiliated Resort  (I wonder if this is an error in the guide since all of the other Club Intrawest resorts are listed with limited availability) 


Resorts in the 2010 Club Member Guide with limited availability noted
NOTE: The resort attribute(s) are listed below following each resort name

1.	Plantation Beach Club at Indian River Plantation Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
2.	The Cottages at South Seas Island Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
3.	Harbourview Villas at South Seas Island Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
4.	Plantation Bay Villas at South Seas Island Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
5.	Plantation Beach Club at South Seas Island Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
6.	Plantation House at South Seas Island Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
7.	South Seas Club at South Seas Island Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
8.	Casa Ybel Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
9.	Hurricane House Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
10.	Sanibel Cottages Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
11.	Tortuga Beach Club Resort: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
12.	Valdoro Mountain Lodge: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Limited Availability
13.	Hilton Vilamoura Vacation Club: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Limited Availability
14.	Hilton Coylumbridge: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Limited Availability
15.	Hilton Craigendarroch: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Limited Availability
16.	Hilton Dunkeld: Managed by Hilton Grand Vacations, Limited Availability
17.	Grand Pacific Palisades Resort: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
18.	Sunset Cove Resort: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
19.	Shell Island Beach Club Resort: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
20.	Club Intrawest – Sandestin: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
21.	Club Intrawest – Whistler: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
22.	Club Intrawest – Tremblant: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
23.	Club Intrawest – Palm Desert: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
24.	Fiesta Americana Villas Cancun: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
25.	Fiesta Americana Villas Acapulco: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
26.	Fiesta Americana Villas Los Cabos: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability
27.	The Explorean Kohunlich: Affiliated Resort, Limited Availability


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## Bxian (Nov 15, 2010)

The Charter Club is not part of II-it is only part of HGVC and RCI.


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## chriskre (Nov 15, 2010)

So what do they mean by limited availability?

I thought all the affiliates had limited availability because it was dependent on owners depositing their weeks.  Do the limited availability inventory come from someplace else?


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## Talent312 (Nov 15, 2010)

chriskre said:


> So what do they mean by limited availability?
> I thought all the affiliates had limited availability because it was dependent on owners depositing their weeks.  Do the limited availability inventory come from someplace else?



AFAIK, the phrase "limited availabilty" is simply one which is applied by HGVC to affiliates with a low level of owner's particpation in HGVC.

It could be a low ratio of members to owners or a low number of members who choose points over keeping their unit. Either way, we of the unwashes masses should count ourselves luck if, by some chance, we happen to snag one of those.


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## RoshiGuy (Nov 15, 2010)

Blues said:


> For example, at this point in time (Nov 2010) I still don't have access to my 2011 points for Craigendarroch, though I could get access if I called them and jumped through hoops.  Major inconvenience.  And by the time I get access, most of the 2011 time will be reserved by other folks.  OTOH, I've already spent 75% of my 2011 points from Flamingo, with no hassles.
> 
> -Bob



Bob, just a quick update. Today, I called HGVC and asked for my 2012 points (Coylumbridge) to be made available. Rep put me on hold for a few minutes while she looked into this and then told me it was done. I saw it online a few minutes later. Haven't paid MF for either 2011 or 2012.

Please report back on any further update re your Craigendarroch points. Seems inconsistent that they should allow me access to the points and not you. FYI, I bought my unit resale through HIGVC but not sure that should matter.


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## Blues (Nov 16, 2010)

RoshiGuy said:


> Bob, just a quick update. Today, I called HGVC and asked for my 2012 points (Coylumbridge) to be made available. Rep put me on hold for a few minutes while she looked into this and then told me it was done. I saw it online a few minutes later. Haven't paid MF for either 2011 or 2012.
> 
> Please report back on any further update re your Craigendarroch points. Seems inconsistent that they should allow me access to the points and not you. FYI, I bought my unit resale through HIGVC but not sure that should matter.



Hi RoshiGuy,

I admit, it's been several years since I've tried this.  It sounds like they've finally trained the HGVC reps to make this less painful.  I haven't converted my Craigendarroch because I had enough points from my Flamingo unit to reserve what I wanted so far.  I guess I've fallen into the habit of borrowing from Flamingo but depositing Craigendarroch, because borrowing affiliate points was such a pain in the past.  Indeed, as I said, I bought the Flamingo because Craigendarroch didn't work conveniently for me.  I'm glad to hear things are going more smoothly now.

BTW, I also bought my Craigendarroch from HIGVC, though I didn't know it at the start of the process.  I won an eBay auction, and it turned out that the seller was HIGVC.  They were good to work with -- even waived club fees for the first two years.

Thanks for your feedback.

-Bob


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## Bill4728 (Nov 17, 2010)

Please note Club Intrawest (CI) is NOT an "Affilate" HGVC resort.  CI & HGVC simply share some of the rooms, at a few of their resorts, with each other. 

Owners at affiliate resorts have the ability to get HGVC points and use them at any of the HGVC resorts. THIS ISN'T TRUE OF CI OWNERS.


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## dvc_john (Nov 18, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> AFAIK, the phrase "limited availabilty" is simply one which is applied by HGVC to affiliates with a low level of owner's particpation in HGVC.
> 
> It could be a low ratio of members to owners or a low number of members who choose points over keeping their unit. Either way, we of the unwashes masses should count ourselves luck if, by some chance, we happen to snag one of those.



It also could just be size of resort. For example, Hurricane House has 15 units. Sanibel Cottages has 28 units.


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## Remy (Apr 27, 2013)

Bill4728 said:


> Please note Club Intrawest (CI) is NOT an "Affilate" HGVC resort.  CI & HGVC simply share some of the rooms, at a few of their resorts, with each other.
> 
> Owners at affiliate resorts have the ability to get HGVC points and use them at any of the HGVC resorts. THIS ISN'T TRUE OF CI OWNERS.



FAVC is also unique in the HGVC system in that ownership is in _some respects_ better than HGVC. Their booking system includes HGVC properties (except Valdoro and W 57th for most) while. The opposite is not true for us. We have to call and hope for FAVC availability.

http://www.loyaltyhacker.com/timesh...rship-in-fiesta-americana-vacation-club-favc/


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