# [ 2014 ]Westgate Resorts What's the Scam & What are your Cancellation Success Stories



## _ombe115

Hi everyone! I'm new here, just joined today because I wanted to post this. 

I just came back last night from a trip to Orlando. While in Universal, I was approached by someone who offered a free buffet breakfast and free gift if I attended a 90 minute sales pitch with no obligation to buy. So I said, eh might as well.

At the time I didn't know it would be for timeshares and I had never heard of Westgate before. But, I knew I always wanted to travel to as many places as possible and I was previously interested in owning property, so the whole Westgate thing appealed to me because of their partnership with Interval International that allows you to trade your timeshare in Orlando for a stay for almost anywhere else in the world.

I'm a person who usually does thorough research on anything new I come across and since I had never heard of Westgate, I quickly Googled it while my sales person went to attend to something. The top results centered around "scam" and were on sites like ripoffreport or consumer compaints, etc. And in my head I'm like ohh shiiit. 

But they convinced me the deal was good by saying I got a "trade in" whatever that means and they kept telling me i got it way below market value (about $13,000) for the 2bd deluxe and a premium week (week 14) and 5 hours later I signed a deed. But now I'm researching more about Westgate and all I see is *SCAM*. Which makes me nervous. 

The good thing is that *I didn't give them any money that day, not even a deposit and they don't have my card information*. I qualified for the "bill me later" so my down payment wouldn't be due for 6 months, which is on a Mastercard they gave me, and the first payment wouldn't  be till December 11.

*What is it that makes Westgate a scam? *I'm a bit confused but would like to know in detail. How are people ripped off? all I see in comments are "Westgate is evil--they stole my money!!"....or something along those lines. Can someone explain to me please?

Also, this board has been thorough in providing steps of how to cancel, so thanks for that! Some comments, though, end with "I sent my cancellation (rescind letter)" but I don't see what happens afterwards.

*What happens to the "gift" you received from them"? Do they charge me for anything after that? What about the balance on the credit card they gave me? And what of the first balance due in December for me?*

They also informed me of their rewards program: referring people for vacations and also referring people to sign up and you get $600. also, they told me you could rent out your timeshare. *Any success stories about making a profit from your timeshare?*

and what about timeshares in general? is it worth it for me to have it? i'm in my early 20s and single, no kids or hubby or anything. are timeshares better for families or at least with someone you can share the financial burden with or is that just up to personal discretion?
any and all help/advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


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## DeniseM

The timeshare you bought can be purchased on the resale market for $1 - true. We have people on TUG trying to give them away, all the time. 

Westgate is infamous for treating it's owners badly and making changes in the rules and policies that devalue ownership.

*You should absolutely rescind.*


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## Passepartout

*FIRST! Cancel NOW.* TODAY! The 'gifts' are yours to keep unless it was something (like an iPad) or something keyed into your purchase. But whatever they offered for you to attend the presentation is yours to keep. include in your rescission letter that their promotional materials will be returned - unless there's something that's worth $50 to you.

Their product is unsaleable. It is unusable by anyone you attempt to sell your ownership to. You can get Wastegate ownerships for less than nothing. People right here on TUG will pay you to take them- and it's no 'deal' then either.

Send a copy of the contract. We understand it's in a hidden flap inside the binder you are given. The address is the one in Ocoee (sp) FL. Anyone who signed the contract must sign the rescission letter. There are sample letters in another thread in the Buying, Selling, Renting forum as well as many anecdotal stories of success and heartbreak.

After you get the letter off (certified USPS w/return receipt), c'mon bac. We need to talk.

Oh, and VERY IMPORTANT, Stay off the phone with them. They will call and try to sweeten the deal, browbeat you into delaying your rescission, tell you lies like that your reason for rescission isn't good enough. No end of lies.

Rescission is your right. Exercise it. And believe me, if this was a good deal last week, it will be available this, and next week/month/year too.

Welcome to TUG. Now get going, you have $13,000 to save yourself.

Jim

*ADDED* Look through this thread. http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73564 There is a good sample rescission letter and it's outcome in post #261 on page 11 of the thread.


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## _ombe115

thanks for the prompt replies! i'm in the process of drafting the letter now so i can get it sent out tomorrow. 

the only trouble i'm running into--*how do i officially/formally state that i don't want to give them money*? lol. most sample letters include a statement such as: "we expect a full refund/credit back to our card." since i did not provide card information or give a deposit/DP, how do I word that i'm not going to pay the DP in 6 months, the first monthly payment on December 11 and the maintenance fees in April 2015? or is that all expected? i just want to cover all ground, be as thorough and detailed as possible; i don't want to miss anything and still be stuck in a sticky situation.


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## DeniseM

Make it simple - BTW - you should cancel that credit card immediately.


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## _ombe115

thanks! should i cancel even before the cancellation is confirmed/official? do i call Mastercard? do i also mention that in the letter, that i cancelled the card?

how does this sound: "please use this letter as a notice not to charge me for the down payment, monthly payment(s), and any other (associated?) fees"


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## TUGBrian

welcome to TUG, you just saved $13,000 dollars!

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/cancel_timeshare_purchase.html


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## Passepartout

Just state something like "I/We wish to cancel contract #XXXXXX in accordance with state law."

If no money has changed hands, there's no need to put that in the letter. I agree with DeniseM. Cancel the credit card post haste. I can't see how a credit card was issued without a SS# or other identifier. Cancel it anyway. No good can come of Wastegate having ANY access to your financial life.

Wastegate are thieves and totally without honor, but this is one area where they won't dare to play games after they have signed for your letter. They WILL cancel the contract and WILL NOT put a charge on that card.


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## DeniseM

> I can't see how a credit card was issued without a SS# or other identifier.


Westgate has buyers fill out a credit card application to charge the payment to.  The OP would have provided that info.



> thanks! should i cancel even before the cancellation is confirmed/official? do i call Mastercard?



Cancel the credit card immediately - before Westgate can charge anything on it.  Once you are charged, it gets more complicated.  Yes, you have to call the credit card company to cancel - just like any other credit card.

*At no time do you want to call Westgate - a call has no legal standing and you will just get harassed. The letter is the legal requirement for canceling.*


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## _ombe115

thanks for the info. doing it as soon as i get home from work. does something along these lines work? "_Please do not make any additional charges on the Westgate Mastercard that was issued to me as it has been cancelled_." Should I add something about an amount being credited back to it or?? I don't want to owe anything in the end even after I send this letter.


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## DeniseM

When you call Mastercard to cancel, find out if any charges have already been made - if they haven't, no need to bring it up in your letter.  Once you cancel the card, Westgate will not be able to charge anything, so it's a moot point.

*Cancel the card TODAY - before you send the letter.


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## Hunter007

*Great advice here*

You are one lucky gal to rescind within the time allowed!  Me, I snooze and I loose! I haven't paid them a dime but I'm sure they will drag my credit thru mud until it can be foreclose which will take about a year

Congratulation on your timely recission!


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## _ombe115

*thanks everyone!* (i know i keep saying thank you, but i truly mean it! thanks for your patience and helpful answers!)

i haven't called yet to cancel the card. but IF there is something charged to the card, how do i go about that and mention in the letter and ensure i don't owe that money once the contract is canceled?


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## DeniseM

_ombe115 said:


> *thanks everyone!* (i know i keep saying thank you, but i truly mean it! thanks for your patience and helpful answers!)
> 
> i haven't called yet to cancel the card. but IF there is something charged to the card, how do i go about that and mention in the letter and ensure i don't owe that money once the contract is canceled?



You should call now - then you don't have to worry about it.  Speculating about something that may not have happened is just slowing down your rescission.


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## _ombe115

just called Mastercard to try and cancel but they said they don't handle cancellations...took a little while to hunt down the bank associated with Westgate but the agent helped me and i was able to cancel the card quick and easy and there was no charge/balance! first step is done, now i'm updating the letter and going to send everything back tomorrow. crossing my fingers that this works out well!

only thing is* i couldn't find the contract in the black binder*...i was in a hurry yesterday because i was about to miss my flight. i saw papers that included: the financial breakdown, the acknowledgement about the mastercard (i don't actually have the physical card), Bill Me Later information (which is why i didn't have to pay upfront--instead it would be interest free and the DP would be due 6 mos later), and the Deed. i checked the pockets and pamphlets and books but didn't see any contract. 

am i missing something?


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## Passepartout

_ombe115 said:


> i checked the pockets and pamphlets and books but didn't see any contract.
> 
> am i missing something?



We hear it's a hidden pocket secured by velcro inside the cover. (back? maybe?)  I've never seen one but that's what has been reported by others who've rescinded.


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## _ombe115

i'll double check the binder.

i think i also read somewhere that the letter has to be notarized? is that a requirement to make the recission official? if so how do i do that?


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## DeniseM

No - it does *not* have to be notarized - you only need to send it with a return receipt so you can prove what day you mailed it.


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## theo

*Cancel now, research later...*



_ombe115 said:


> The good thing is that *I didn't give them any money that day, not even a deposit and they don't have my card information*. I qualified for the "bill me later" so my down payment wouldn't be due for 6 months, which is on a Mastercard they gave me, and the first payment wouldn't  be till December 11.
> 
> *What is it that makes Westgate a scam? *



Whether or not you actually parted with any deposit money upfront, please understand very clearly that you *have* executed a lawful, binding contract. 
Under applicabe FL law, you have 10 days from the date of contract execution in which to rescind (cancel). Do so without delay, as directed by others above already. 

Westgate (a.k.a. *Waste*gate) is not a "scam", per se. More accurately, it is a company whose overpriced timeshares have poor value and one which is widely held in very low regard (including by many dissatisfied current Westgate owners). You have made a big (but reversible) mistake. Rescind now, while the law still allows you to do so.

You posed a multitude of timeshare-related questions in your original post. Those questions cannot possibly be adequately addressed in just a few short, simple lines. 
Cancel now, then undertake some personal effort to *research* timeshares (...it will likely take you a few months to become truly well informed). Only then should you consider buying a timeshare. If you later make an *informed* decision to buy a timeshare, save yourself many thousands of dollars by purchasing in the resale market, *not* from hungry, deceitful sales weasels after being misled, browbeaten and held captive for hours at any developer "presentation", just for a few crummy "gifts".


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## _ombe115

thanks for the information! so i mentioned in a post i could not find the contract...is there anything else i should include when sending the letter or would just the letter be enough?

*Edit:* Nevermind, I found the secret compartment!! But would still appreciate clarification on what exactly I should send aside from the actual letter, if additional things are even necessary. thanks!


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## DeniseM

To rescind - you must send the *letter* - it is "helpful" to send a copy of the first page of the contract, but it isn't mandatory.

Wyndham may require you to send back other materials to avoid a charge for the materials.  *That is SECONDARY, and it does not impact your legal right to rescind.
*
Right now you need to get your letter in the mail, because that is the critical piece.

After you do that, sit down and carefully read the rescission instructions in the packet, and see what it says about other materials that must be sent back.  That can be done separately - you do not have to do it now.


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## let1tb2@aol.com

*Wastegate*

Be sure to cancel this contract as soon as you can... Do not WAIT!!! As an owner of Wastegate for 31 years I can tell run, run far away from these people. Luckily I did not pay the crazy prices they are charging for them today. This company has really changed over the years. At one time they had great resorts, friendly people and it was a pleasure to own there. Now it is all about the money, they do not care about owners!  So again I say RUN!    By the way I have 2 Westgate weeks up for sale for $1.00. So if you really want  them  there are plenty on this website for much less than $13000


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## theo

let1tb2@aol.com said:


> Be sure to cancel this contract as soon as you can... Do not WAIT!!! As an owner of Wastegate for 31 years I can tell run, run far away from these people. Luckily I did not pay the crazy prices they are charging for them today. This company has really changed over the years. At one time they had great resorts, friendly people and it was a pleasure to own there. Now it is all about the money, they do not care about owners!  So again I say RUN!    By the way I have 2 Westgate weeks up for sale for $1.00. So if you really want  them  there are plenty on this website for much less than $13000



Good advice, from the most credible source possible -- a dissatisfied Wastegate owner. Out of curiousity, have you ever inquired into a "deedback" with Westgate? 

It is well and widely known that Wastegate practices and policies significantly devalue ownerships, making it difficult to even give away said ownerships for free, but there *have* been reports of people getting Wastegate to take back their deeds (...for a fee, of course --- like anything and everything else associated with Westgate). 

Just a thought...


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## zeld

*Westgate just not worth the fees*

I have stayed at the Westgate in Las Vegas a few times this year.  Their two bedroom units are spacious.  I found the units needing some repairs and I had problems with the wireless.  The parking lot was generally full along with the pool.  Overall the experience was good.  I think Theo stated an accurate perspective on Westgate.  I paid under $300 for each week.  I suspect that the maintenance fees on a week are significantly higher which is why there is little value in this timeshare.


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## theo

*Perspective matters a whole lot...*



zeld said:


> I have stayed at the Westgate in Las Vegas a few times this year.  Their two bedroom units are spacious.  I found the units needing some repairs and I had problems with the wireless.  The parking lot was generally full along with the pool.  Overall the experience was good.  I think Theo stated an accurate perspective on Westgate.  *I paid under $300 for each week.  **I suspect that the maintenance fees on a week are significantly higher which is why there is little value in this timeshare.*



Westgate facilities themselves are not the problem at all. *Ownership* within the Westgate system is the dilemma --- and for a whole multitude of reasons that go far beyond maintenance fee amounts (which are actually not particularly out of line with most others; that's not at all where the "value" problem lies within Wastegate).

More specifically, Westgate knowingly and deliberately devalues resale ownership by making reservation procedures and availability difficult and time-limited and by unilaterally adopting different reservation rules for "resale" weeks, which makes any and all subsequent resales of Westgate ownerships difficult and nearly worthless. 

With all due respect, your casual observations as occasional "visitor" to one Westgate property in Las Vegas cannot possibly even begin to reveal the many underlying flaws, shortcomings and difficulties of actual (and very hard to dump) Westgate *ownership*. Just the same, I'm glad that you've  enjoyed your brief "Vegas Visits".


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## TheTimeTraveler

As others have said, cancel IMMEDIATELY.  Ask questions later.  You can always go back if you really find you want to (but you won't want to).  The key here is to do a legal cancellation while the law still allows you to do so.

Follow the instructions carefully and send your cancellation via USPS Certified Mail with Return Receipt Requested.  Retain the Postmarked green & white receipt the Post Office will provide to you at the time of mailing, and then staple it to the green card when it comes back to you in the mail.

Keep accurate records in order to prove that you cancelled within the correct time frame.

I think most of us hope things go well in the process.




.


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## _ombe115

thanks everyone for the detailed insight 

I sent my letters (4 of them to 4 different addresses) last Thursday, and I asked the person behind the counter at USPS that i wanted them Certified and with a Return Receipt requested.

So...Almost 1 week later and I haven't heard anything from Westgate. And it makes me a little anxious. I don't know if my letters got through or if my recission went through. By the way the contract was signed on Nov 11 so the 10 days would be up by Friday. That's why I'm anxious. I don't want this to be delayed. 

So many posts have said that Westgate will try to harass you with calls. I haven't gotten any. 

at the post office i filled out two forms: a white and dark green one and then a lighter green form. in return, the postman gave me a copy of the Certified Mail Receipt, but when i tried inputting the number on the side, i don't get results from the page (usps.com). 

Since i'm so worried and anxious and just want all this to work, is it worth it to call Westgate to confirm they received my letters??


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## DeniseM

They don't have to respond, or confirm - they just have to give you your money back, and they have something like 30 or 45 days.

The only important thing is that you MAILED it on time, and you have PROOF  of that - and you do.

DO NOT CALL WESTGATE - calling doesn't make any difference, and you are just opening the door to more lies and a lot of heavy pressure to not rescind...


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## Passepartout

What Denise said. Relax. Take a deep breath. Sleazy as Watergate is, they won't try any shenanigans after getting a rescission letter that is postmarked within the legal time frame.

It can- and with Wastegate probably will take the full allowable 45 days for you to see the refund. If you put it on a credit card, you may start the formal challenge of the charge. It has to be done in writing.

Jim


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## _ombe115

Thanks for the reassurance everyone 

Yeah, like I mentioned, my personal credit card was not charged as i did not provide that information, but they did open a Mastercard for me so they could put the down payment balance on it, but i cancelled that already, so i guess they'll try to charge to it and find that they can't!


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## DeniseM

One more point:  If you are having problems verifying the post office confirmation online, just take it back to them and ask for assistance.


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## theo

_ombe115 said:


> I sent my letters (4 of them to 4 different addresses) last Thursday... <snip>



I'm puzzled how you came up with four different addresses for your cancellation letter regarding a Westgate purchase in Orlando, but I sincerely hope that at least *one* of them was the only correct address to have been appropriately utilized at all, which is the Westgate corporate offices address in Ocoee, FL.  

If you have date stamped USPS proof of postmark within the 10 day FL rescission period, your rescission (cancellation) *will* be processed. It's the law and Westgate simply has no other choice or option. Period, amen. It also does not matter when they actually receive the letter; the USPS postmark date is all that ultimately matters.

Do yourself a favor and do *NOT* call them! In fact, don't even answer the phone if / when they attempt to call you in a desperate attempt to salvage their now-disappearing sale and commission. No possible good can result from any such phone conversations, which are legally meaningless and which will not likely yield any useful (...or truthful) information anyhow.

You've done all that you needed to do. Now just stay off the phone on this matter, let the law do its' work for you and be very thankful for your good fortune.


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## _ombe115

Another post with a similar situation used 4 addresses so i used the same, but found 2 of them in my packet anyway. 2 of the addresses were in Ocoee.

And i finally was able to input the label number from my Certified Receipt on usps.com and all 4 of them delivered! now i can breathe easily


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## TheTimeTraveler

_ombe115 said:


> Another post with a similar situation used 4 addresses so i used the same, but found 2 of them in my packet anyway. 2 of the addresses were in Ocoee.
> 
> And i finally was able to input the label number from my Certified Receipt on usps.com and all 4 of them delivered! now i can breathe easily





Now be sure to retain the green return receipt card when it comes back to you in the mail and you should be all set....




.


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## _ombe115

i know this is really late but i just wanted to update and say i successfully cancelled my contract!! thanks everyone on here for your patience and advice!


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## pedro47

Now that is awesome !!! A job well done.


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## _ombe115

pedro47 said:


> Now that is awesome !!! A job well done.



yes, i'm glad it worked out!

so what happened after i sent the letters:

i received the green slips confirming that my letters had been received
i received a letter that basically said: your cancellation will be processed once you return all items within 30 days of this postmark (Nov 30)

so i sent back that ridiculously heavy binder thing and everything it came with. i didn't see anything else from them after that though but i'm just hoping for the best that its successfully cancelled. 

what i thought was strange was that i received 0 calls from them after i sent my letters. reading posts on here, i assumed they would be calling all the time but i didn't get any. except i got one call and voicemail from someone who said they were from the cancellation department. i tried calling back just to see if they had something important to say, but no one knew who i was talking about (i mentioned the name left in the voicemail). but soon after this i got the confirmation letter anyway, so it didn't really matter


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## ducote

I just got a quit deed giving back my Orlando Westgate property. Cost 10 dollars.


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## Suzzy1990

*Westgate*

I need the adress to cancel contrace with westgate??


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## Passepartout

Suzzy1990 said:


> I need the adress to cancel contrace with westgate??



Is this a new contract still eligible for rescission? If so, the instructions and address are in the contract in the hidden pocket in the back cover of the binder you got. Use the business office address in  Ocoee, FL.

If this is for a deed-back as mentioned upthread, you'll have to either call Wastegate or ask one of those posters by clicking on their blue username and emailing them.

Jim


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