# Most Affordable Way to Get in to Vistana w/Ability to [exchange] Weeks



## LivninSC (Jan 31, 2018)

First off sorry for the long post but I'm trying to get it all in one and who knows maybe help someone else that is thinking what I'm thinking. I tried to find a similar thread in this forum but couldn't so hopefully this hasn't all been asked before. 

We went to a Vistana timeshare presentation recently and came away from it with a pretty positive view of the program overall. The obvious downside is the cost they try to sell it to you at.

We would realistically use it at the properties on Kauai or Maui a majority of the time so we'd need a minimum of ~81k points for a week in a one bedroom but would be open to buying more points so that we would use it more than a week a year or bring the in-laws and get a 2 bedroom for a week. 

Initially I was just thinking we could buy on the resale market and use the points to book the property we wanted to but discovered that they have 1st right of refusals at the properties we would likely use them at (so who knows what that actually results in being available at a good price assuming Vistana would just snatch them up when you go to buy them) and the whole "mandatory" vs "voluntary" designation which if I understand correctly means that you may or may not be able to use your points at the property of your choice.

So knowing that we'd like to possibly get ~81k to ~148k StarOptions a year and be able to use them at the properties in Maui and Kauai along with others less often I started looking for a property that didn't have a First Right of Refusal clause and was a Mandatory resort. 

In looking at the First Right of Refusal properties they (from what I could find) are:

Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas
Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas North
Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas
Westin Mission Hills in Palm Desert, California
In looking at the Mandatory resorts the FAQ page lists them as:

Harborside at Atlantis
Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West phases only)
Westin St. John (Virgin Grand - Hillside only)
Westin Ka'anapali & Westin Ka'anapali-North
Westin Kierland Villas
With my need to use the StarOptions at various properties buying at a Mandatory resort on the resale market (again assuming I understand properly) seems to be the most important thing (excluding cost  ). 

Given that I started looking around and found the following for some examples (that they couldn't snatch up through FROR):
Harborside at Atlantis - $12,500 for an annual 148,100 points & $3,100 maintenance
Westin Kierland Villas -  $17,000 for an annual 148,100 points & $1,500 maintenance
or 
Harborside at Atlantis - $6,000 for an annual 81,000 points & $1,750 maintenance
Westin Kierland Villas -  $13,000 for an annual 81,000 points & $600 maintenance

The Westin Mission Hills would actually be a better resort for us to purchase if everything else was equal as we would probably use it here and there whereas we'd probably never go to Kierland but I can't find the points listed in the for sale ads for those units so I chose Kierland for this example as those did. 

I read to check on the desert properties as the maintenance is lower for them and that definitely seems to be true, and could possibly be the reason for the higher price of what I could find.  So assuming we would keep it for awhile and that the lower maintenance costs would offset the increase in price for us and knowing that I would actually want to use these mostly on Hawaii for us am I going about this right? Would the best option (of these examples) be to buy one of the Kierlands and 8 months out just logon to the Vistana site and book at the resort of our choice? Any other suggestions for a better example? I found the Vistana Villages at Key West (which is supposedly a Mandatory resort) for $4k for 81k annual points & $1,100 maintenance which is even better then the Harborside 81k point option (although hurricanes admittedly scare be a bit about owning there) but I'm curious if there are any usual resorts that are the best type of deal for what I'm trying to do. 

In all honesty in just comparing the cost of this against a VRBO which where we go would usually run about $2k for a 2 bedroom for a week (with taxes and fees) I don't know if it's worth it but the Vistana properties in general do seem to have more amenities and more availability which is admittedly nice so I'd be ok with paying a bit of a premium. I met a lot of owners when we were staying in Hawaii last time and they all seemed very happy with their purchase and the maintenance fees but if I could get the same thing basically (minus the ability to transfer to SPG points, book 8 months out max instead of 12, not get SPG gold) I'd rather save a ton of cash up front and pay basically half the maintenance fees every year and get the same week in the same rooms at the same property that they're paying a lot more for 

So ya, sorry for the lengthy post but if you've made it this far thanks and thanks again for any and all advice you can provide!


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## vacationtime1 (Jan 31, 2018)

Your thought process is very sound.  The good news is that your target units are available on the secondary market for much less than you think.

You can buy that 81000 StarOption Kierland one bedroom unit for about $9,000 +/-; the MF's are $947 plus the VSE club fee of about $140.  Kierland does not have ROFR (full disclosure:  we own three Kierland units).  It is the two bedroom Kierland (148100 StarOptions) that would set you back $15,000 +/- with maintenance fees of $1,543 + VSE fee.

You can buy a 81000 two bedroom Vistana Villages (Bella or Key West only) for about $1,000; the MF's are about $1,200 plus the VSE club fee.  I have no idea about ROFR there.

Do realize that using StarOptions to reserve Maui at the eight month mark is not automatic.  Christmas/New Years is not going to happen.  Whale season or summer weeks will require diligence and flexibility.  But again, your overall concept is sound.

Keep asking questions.


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## r1lee (Jan 31, 2018)

There is also no ROFR at Vistana. You can pickup 81k 2 bedroom in platinum season for literally free if you look hard as are patience. The diff in MF fee compared to the 1 bedroom from kierland is about $100.  It would take you forever to make up that difference.  Also the kierland unit is very difficult to find.


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## Markus (Jan 31, 2018)

If you can afford $15K +/- then the Kierland 2 bed Platinum Plus is the way to go. This will provide 148,100 StarOptions, and allow you the 2 bed in Hawaii, slightly over 2 weeks in a Studio, almost 2 weeks in a 1 bed. This option will allow more usage as you vacation time increases, for the same low MFs. In addition if your usage will be lower in a particular year, you can always rent all or a portion of your unit for significant profit, making uour vacation essentially free.

Markus


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## buzglyd (Jan 31, 2018)

And stay away from Mission Hills which isn’t mandatory. 

I just picked up an odd year  Bella 81,000 for $100. I like EOY because I can just forget about using it for a year and plan different vacations.


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## DeniseM (Jan 31, 2018)

r1lee said:


> There is also no ROFR at Vistana.



Not true - Some resorts have ROFR.


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## PamMo (Jan 31, 2018)

Like Vacationtime1 wrote, if your primary goal is to get into Hawaii using StarOptions, you have to be very flexible about when you travel. Hawaiian holiday, prime winter and summer weeks are usually reserved by owners in their 12-8 month priority booking period, so competition can be fierce for the remaining weeks in the Vistana Network. Even owners can have a hard time booking prime weeks at 12 months. If you can travel to Hawaii at any time of the year, get the cheapest mandatory week (purchase price + MF's) for the number of StarOptions you want. For the most flexibility, I'd recommend buying a 2BR unit with more StarOptions so you can bring family/friends, stay longer, split up the unit for two separate vacations, or have one or two weeks to trade in Interval (an Interval account is included in your Vistana account if you own a mandatory resort - but trading will cost extra).

Congrats on not being pressured to buy at the presentation, and being smart enough to take your time and research options before buying a timeshare!


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## VacationForever (Jan 31, 2018)

Since the title of your post is "Most Affordable Way...", I would say if you want 1BR for 1 week, buy a SVV (Key West or Bella) prime season which comes with 81K SO (1BR in Maui) for a 2BR non-lockoff, or 95.7K SO (1BR Oceanfront in Maui) for a 2BR lockoff. If you want to book 2 weeks of 1BR or 1 week of 2BR, then just buy 2 SVV weeks.  They go for about 1K per week and very reasonable MF. 

Westin Kierland is expensive and won't fall into "Most Affordable Way..." category.  In addition, with the market being imperfect, someone just bought a 2BR WKV platinum annual week for 10K and another person at 15K etc... The spread is too wide (10K to 17K) and if you end up paying on the higher end, you are going to feel that you got a bad deal... just saying.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 31, 2018)

Love this thread because it summarizes many threads that I have been pouring over to research a similar purchase for a trader. This answers many of my questions.

I have a few more:

What about *WPORV* Kauai availability via SOs *during summer*? Is it easy/possible to trade SO at 8 month midnight for a 2 bedroom unit with a decent view better than the garbage bins, brick wall or parking lot at WPORV?  

What about 1 bedroom ski weeks via SOs at 8 months?

Would we be better off with a 1 bedroom Kierland or a 2 bedroom (SVV) for II trading into Marriott or Hyatt?


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## mauitraveler (Jan 31, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Love this thread because it summarizes many threads that I have been pouring over to research a similar purchase for a trader. This answers many of my questions.
> 
> I have a few more:
> ...Would we be better off with a 1 bedroom Kierland or a 2 bedroom (SVV) for II trading into Marriott or Hyatt?


I've noticed that my Marriott ownership "sees" more Marriott availability in II than my Vistana ownerships.  A good trader for you might be the Grand Chateau in Las Vegas.  I've had very good success with locking off the 2-BR and getting good trades, especially with the E-Plus feature.  I've also seen WPORV availability using my Marriott to search.  However, if you specifically want to use SOs to get into WPORV during the summer, perhaps someone with more experience with that scenario can chime in.  CJ


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## DeniseM (Jan 31, 2018)

What about *WPORV* Kauai availability via SOs *during summer*? Is it easy/possible to trade SO at 8 month midnight for a 2 bedroom unit with a decent view better than the garbage bins, brick wall or parking lot at WPORV?  

*Staroption trades at WPORV have no designated view, so no guarantee on view.  Princeville is easier than Maui, but you still need to make your reservation right at 8 months.*

What about 1 bedroom ski weeks via SOs at 8 months?

*Difficult - most ski season inventory is reserved by owners and never makes it to 8 mos.*

Would we be better off with a 1 bedroom Kierland or a 2 bedroom (SVV) for II trading into Marriott or Hyatt?

*It's a waste of Staroptions to trade a mandatory resort in II, when a voluntary resort will work for less $$$.*


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## VacationForever (Jan 31, 2018)

In II, there is Vistana-Vistana (30 days)and Marriott-Marriott (24 days) priority where a block is in place against other brands of timeshare.


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Jan 31, 2018)

The general consensus on here in recent times is if you want e.g. Maui then the prime way to avoid disappointment is to buy Maui. For around $11K and $2.7K/year you can pick up a resale of an annual 2BR, be able to reserve at 12 months and have a very good chance of renting it out if you don't use it. Probably like many on here I can only dream that I'd picked mine up at such a price


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## buzglyd (Jan 31, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Love this thread because it summarizes many threads that I have been pouring over to research a similar purchase for a trader. This answers many of my questions.
> 
> I have a few more:
> 
> ...



CalGal you are on a mission!


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## PamMo (Jan 31, 2018)

DeniseM said:


> ...*It's a waste of Staroptions to trade a mandatory resort in II, when a voluntary resort will work for less $$$.*



Not necessarily. I usually book my expensive Home Resorts (WKORV, WKORVN, and HRA) for their views, but I've been very happy to split and trade one 2BR lockoff for two weeks in a 2BR Westin villa in Hawaii (thanks to bulk deposit sightings on TUG). Not as good as splitting my SDO 2BR for two weeks in Hawaii, but I still like having the option with my mandatory lockoffs. Unfortunately, the Interval trade plus upgrade unit size fees are making it less appealing...


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## r1lee (Jan 31, 2018)

DeniseM said:


> Not true - Some resorts have ROFR.



i meant to say vistana villages, it was super early this morning. I was still tired


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## bogey21 (Jan 31, 2018)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> The general consensus on here in recent times is if you want Maui then the prime way to avoid disappointment is to buy Maui.



As an outsider lurking here I agree with this approach.  If something is important to you, don't screw around and buy it.  I faced a similar situation many, many years ago.  I wanted the certainty of an Ocean Front Week at Monarch (Marriott) on HHI for my family of five.  The only way to be sure to get it was to buy it.  I sprung for $25k and bought a Fixed Crown Suite Week; used it for 6 or 7 years; then (luckily) sold it for $41.5k ($33.2k after commission paid to Marriott).

George


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## PamMo (Jan 31, 2018)

We've stayed in that Crown Suite - and loved it!!!


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## Smithsingeneva (Jan 31, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> What about 1 bedroom ski weeks via SOs at 8 months?



I have consistently reserved a 1BR at Sheraton Mountain Vista in Avon on SOs during Spring Break - typically last week or two of March.


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## Smithsingeneva (Jan 31, 2018)

If you want a view in Maui, you should buy Maui.  SOs do not guarantee a view.

Also, I am always worried that the SO network may change.  The Flex programs and other initiatives may make it harder to reserve through SOs at some point, and I am happy knowing that worst case, we are stuck in a 2BR LO oceanview at WKORVN.

I would not let ROFR deter me.  Vistana does not exercise every one and there is plenty of Maui inventory available to try again if they exercise on your purchase.  Syed Sarmai at Advantage Vacations in Maui was my broker and knows the ROFR market very well.  He is a Tugger. Check out his website for inventory and give him a call for the prices that are likely to pass ROFR.


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## Smithsingeneva (Jan 31, 2018)

There are also ways to structure the deals to reduce likelihood of ROFR being exercised.  We reimbursed the seller for the current year MFs as part of our deal - and since it was the first half of the year I was able to bank those SOs for future use.  Vistana is not as interested in that part of the deal but would have to match it to exercise ROFR.


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## duke (Feb 1, 2018)

Think about RENTING from an Owner.
There are may Owners who would be glad to make a reservation for the exact week and view you want if you just reimburse the annual maint. fee.
Or, check out the rental sites such as Redweek and get what you want without the investment.


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## LivninSC (Feb 2, 2018)

Thanks for all the responses. We really liked both the Maui and Kauai resorts it's just the maintenance fees that kind of kill it. If the maintenance fees were closer to the Kierlands fees it would be worth it for us to buy at Westin Ka'anapali (as it's a mandatory resort so we could use the week elsewhere) and book a week there 12 months out and if we wanted to go to Kauai see if they had availability and switch at 8 months and if not stick with the Maui reservation.  With MFs at roughly $3k for a 2 bedroom for a week every year you can get a pretty darn nice VRBO for less. Again, not necessarily all the amenities but you can stay at one of the neighboring VRBOs for $2k or less for a 2-3 bedroom for a week. The reason I liked the Kierland option was the reduced maintenance fees (roughly $1.5k IIRC) and at least for now what seems to be an easier ability to rent out the week to cover our MFs if we decided not to use it at another resort which was a positive over the Vistana Villages (plus the hurricane risk which may or may not be a real concern). We don't normally travel during the holidays or peak summer times currently so hopefully we would be able to get a week but it's admittedly a risk which is somewhat why we were considering getting a week at 81k points a year and seeing how it goes and then buy more.  As the kids do get older though summer weeks do become more necessary as I'm not sure if we'll want to take them out of school. 

Another concern is these Flex programs. I was reading the threads here and I can see how the current owners would be a bit perturbed. They always had the ability to book in the 12-8 month timeframe at their home resort but it now seems that a lot of other people will have the same ability across a few resorts. I wonder what that will do to availability or possibly there is additional room inventory they're somehow adding so that it won't diminish the current owners ability? 

Just using Princeville as an example I looked at random summer weeks and they usually show availability at spg.com but is the availability they show there also the same availability that an owner would be able to get? IOW if July 15th-22nd is showing a 2 Bedroom as available (albeit at $950/night) would an owner be able to book a room or is there different inventory where some is allocated to owners and the rest the hotel side of it? Not being an owner I can't really compare the availability 

Definitely lots to think about and again thanks for all the input.


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## VacationForever (Feb 2, 2018)

LivninSC said:


> Another concern is these Flex programs. I was reading the threads here and I can see how the current owners would be a bit perturbed. They always had the ability to book in the 12-8 month timeframe at their home resort but it now seems that a lot of other people will have the same ability across a few resorts. I wonder what that will do to availability or possibly there is additional room inventory they're somehow adding so that it won't diminish the current owners ability?
> 
> Just using Princeville as an example I looked at random summer weeks and they usually show availability at spg.com but is the availability they show there also the same availability that an owner would be able to get? IOW if July 15th-22nd is showing a 2 Bedroom as available (albeit at $950/night) would an owner be able to book a room or is there different inventory where some is allocated to owners and the rest the hotel side of it? Not being an owner I can't really compare the availability
> 
> Definitely lots to think about and again thanks for all the input.



There are many inventory pools.  SPG.com inventory is owned by Starwood (the hotel chain).  Westin Flex has its own inventory pool, which is only open to those who bought Westin Flex points.  Vistana weeks owners have their own weeks inventory pools.  Sheraton Flex has its own inventory pool.  Nanea points owners have their own inventory pool, the new St John phases have their own inventory pool.

What happens at 8 months is that all of the mandatory weeks, and developer purchased Flex points can book from the same pool, except from weeks pool and SPG hotel owned pool.  Vistana voluntary weeks owners, will continue to be able to book within their same season from the weeks inventory pool.


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## Ken555 (Feb 2, 2018)

I bought a Kierland 148k week in 2005 with first usage in 2006, and it’s been a fantastic addition to my travel planning. I’ve also bought and sold (given away) other weeks, and now have a couple of SDO weeks for trading. I use WKV exclusively as SO trades, primarily to Maui. I reserve Maui at the eight month mark and rarely have difficulty finding units. 

I also use SDO for trading to WKORV, though the success rate for that hasn’t been as good in the last few years as it was previously. However, I was able to get a 1-bed for this March.

To answer your latest question, the inventory you see on SPG is not the inventory available to owners. 

Over the long term, owning WKV is best price since the annual fees will be lower. There have been numerous threads about this over the years...and I believe the last time I ran the numbers comparing WKV and SVV, SVV had the advantage until about seven (7) years at which point WKV was better. So, I’d suggest you determine how long you intend to keep the week and then revisit the question of which unit to purchase.

As far as buying direct vs resale goes, I’ll just chime in like others and say there is very little practical purpose to ever buying direct. I would definitely encourage you to buy resale. 

FWIW, I track my WKV usage carefully. This year may be the most nights I’ve ever redeemed in a year at about 26 for a 148k deed. Depending on your usage, there are ways of stretching a single week.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## LivninSC (Feb 2, 2018)

Thanks again. I was assuming there was different inventory but wanted to confirm.  Two final final questions that I didn't see explicitly stated in the threads I read. 

If we were to buy a 2 bedroom at WKV (which gives you 148k SOs) through the resale market can we use those to trade (assuming availability and that it's enough points) for whatever length of time we want on Maui or Kauai? The timeshare sales guy made it sound like we could use those points for booking whatever combo of length we wanted. Say 148k equals 12 nights worth of points in a 1 Bedroom at Princeville. Could we redeem them for 3 separate 4 night trips or do we have to book an actual 2 bedroom for one week and that's all we can do? I get that some days are more expensive than others but just for this example let's assume they're all equal. My question is really more around if I have to book an actual week or if I can book whatever nights I have points for based on the room type. 
If you buy resale are you able to bank your SOs (I understand there is a $99 fee to do this for non-elites) if you can't use them in the year? If I were to buy direct (which I likely wouldn't ever do) you can pay a relatively small fee and bank the points for up to two years so that you can use them the next year. Is the same available if you buy resale? Seems like it but I wanted to confirm.
Essentially I just want to make sure that I'm able to use the SOs really as currency if you will at any resort so that I can chose my preferred room type and duration assuming there is availability (i.e. 148k for a 2 bedroom on Kauai for 1 week, or 81k for a 1 bedroom on Kauai for a week and ~67k for a studio on Maui for a week, or 148k for a 1 bedroom on Kauai for 12 nights as examples).  

Per the FAQ
*7) What are Starpoints?*
Starpoints are Starwood *hotel *points & they can be used for hotel stays, airfare, and other purchases from the Starwood Preferred Guests Program. Starpoints do not transfer with any resale.

*a. What are the rules for converting to Starpoints?*
Regular owners can convert their timeshare to Starpoints every-other-year - there is a $99 conversion fee and you must pay your maintenance fee before converting. The earliest you can convert to Starpoints is Oct. 1, of the year before the use year, and the latest you can convert to Starpoints is March 31st, of the use year. (A Starpoint chart is posted in the Owner Resources sticky.)

*b. Elite Owner Conversion?*
* 4 & 5 Star Elite owners do not have to pay the $99 conversion fee and they can convert to Starpoints every year.
* 3 Star Elite owners can convert as late at July 1.
* 4 & 5 Star Elite owners can convert as late as Oct. 1.

This link seems to suggest you can but wanted to make sure - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/banking-staroptions-important-update-2-13-12.153142/

*SUMMARY:

5* Elite Owners: No charge.
3* and 4* Elite Owners: $79
All other (non-Elite) Owners: $99

Non-Elite SVN members can request SO Banking no later than July 1
3* and 4* Elite members may request SO Banking through October 1
5* Elite members may request SO Banking through December 31*


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## Shirtman (Feb 2, 2018)

Can you trade a mandatory resort for Star options every year.

Thanks


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## vacationtime1 (Feb 2, 2018)

Shirtman said:


> Can you trade a mandatory resort for Star options every year.
> 
> Thanks



Yes.  And many of us do exactly that.

(Technically, it's not trading; it's just using SO's to make reservations at resorts other than home resorts.  Which is far easier and far more certain than trading through Interval.)


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## r1lee (Feb 3, 2018)

LivninSC said:


> Thanks again. I was assuming there was different inventory but wanted to confirm.  Two final final questions that I didn't see explicitly stated in the threads I read



Only thing you lose when buying mandatory resale

1. SO to spg conversion, which sucks anyways
2. Purchase goes towards elite status.
3. $40,000+


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## dokken88 (Feb 3, 2018)

LivninSC said:


> First off sorry for the long post but I'm trying to get it all in one and who knows maybe help someone else that is thinking what I'm thinking. I tried to find a similar thread in this forum but couldn't so hopefully this hasn't all been asked before.
> 
> We went to a Vistana timeshare presentation recently and came away from it with a pretty positive view of the program overall. The obvious downside is the cost they try to sell it to you at.
> 
> ...


LOOK AT EBAY! Kierland with 81000 SOs going for 499$. 1000 MF. They are on EBAY every day. No way you need to pay more than a 1000$ to get SOs. Im doing same thing!


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## r1lee (Feb 3, 2018)

dokken88 said:


> LOOK AT EBAY! Kierland with 81000 SOs going for 499$. 1000 MF. They are on EBAY every day. No way you need to pay more than a 1000$ to get SOs. Im doing same thing!



There’s something incorrect about that listing.  2 bedroom in gold season is not $1000mf, it’s the same mf as 2 bedroom platinum, which is $1500+.

The only 900+ mf on kierland is 1 bedroom Premium in platinum season for 81k SO’s.


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## VacationForever (Feb 3, 2018)

dokken88 said:


> LOOK AT EBAY! Kierland with 81000 SOs going for 499$. 1000 MF. They are on EBAY every day. No way you need to pay more than a 1000$ to get SOs. Im doing same thing!


This is Gold season Odd year.  The listed $941.57 (including annual club membership) is due every year.  Multiply that by 2 for annual use, i.e. 81K SOs every other year.  These can be gotten for a $1.


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## VacationForever (Feb 3, 2018)

LivninSC said:


> Thanks again. I was assuming there was different inventory but wanted to confirm.  Two final final questions that I didn't see explicitly stated in the threads I read.
> 
> If we were to buy a 2 bedroom at WKV (which gives you 148k SOs) through the resale market can we use those to trade (assuming availability and that it's enough points) for whatever length of time we want on Maui or Kauai? The timeshare sales guy made it sound like we could use those points for booking whatever combo of length we wanted. Say 148k equals 12 nights worth of points in a 1 Bedroom at Princeville. Could we redeem them for 3 separate 4 night trips or do we have to book an actual 2 bedroom for one week and that's all we can do? I get that some days are more expensive than others but just for this example let's assume they're all equal. My question is really more around if I have to book an actual week or if I can book whatever nights I have points for based on the room type.
> If you buy resale are you able to bank your SOs (I understand there is a $99 fee to do this for non-elites) if you can't use them in the year? If I were to buy direct (which I likely wouldn't ever do) you can pay a relatively small fee and bank the points for up to two years so that you can use them the next year. Is the same available if you buy resale? Seems like it but I wanted to confirm.
> Essentially I just want to make sure that I'm able to use the SOs really as currency if you will at any resort so that I can chose my preferred room type and duration assuming there is availability (i.e. 148k for a 2 bedroom on Kauai for 1 week, or 81k for a 1 bedroom on Kauai for a week and ~67k for a studio on Maui for a week, or 148k for a 1 bedroom on Kauai for 12 nights as examples).



Yes, regardless of mandatory resale or developer bought, you use SOs to book any flavors that you want, 1BR, 2BR, studio... as long as you have enough SOs and there is availability you can book them.  

Yes, you can bank SOs for 2 years - current year + next 2 years.  You pay the banking fee applicable for non-elites.


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## dokken88 (Feb 3, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> This is Gold season Odd year.  The listed $941.57 (including annual club membership) is due every year.  Multiply that by 2 for annual use, i.e. 81K SOs every other year.  These can be gotten for a $1.


Yes and every year can be had very cheap as well. Just letting OP know that there is NO REASON to pay 15k for Kierland. I had a reseller contat me and tried to convince me I had to pay between 15-20k for a 2BR. Thats baloney. Patience pays off.


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## VacationForever (Feb 3, 2018)

dokken88 said:


> Yes and every year can be had very cheap as well. Just letting OP know that there is NO REASON to pay 15k for Kierland. I had a reseller contat me and tried to convince me I had to pay between 15-20k for a 2BR. Thats baloney. Patience pays off.


SVV prime week is a better buy.  Annual MF is about $1200-$1300 for 81K / 95.K annually.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 3, 2018)

Our two WKV 1Bd Plat (81K each) have paid for their purchase price by renting out over the years.  This plan has worked out perfectly as I bought them to use the SOs in retirement (check) as I had limited vacation days when working. Now we can get a 1Bd in HI for $930/week (and are this Sept...).

It does appear as if the rental market for WKV has softened - so maybe SVV is a better choice. But, for us, goes against the adage of buying where you would want to visit, and WKV is a great resort that we can drive to (and are this year). The best reason I have heard for this apparent softening in rentals is due to AirBnB (and perhaps decline in the popularity of Baseball?). Anyway, good timing for us - now we have 162,000 SOs to use within VSN going forward at 8-month for <$2,000.


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## HeidingOut (Feb 4, 2018)

Not trying to hijack this thread. But, am wanting similar advice. We own voluntary Lagunamar. I'm wanting to "trade" within Vistana's network so am thinking of picking up SVV star options to book at the 8 month mark other locations. We can only travel during peak seasons Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break, and Summer since we have young children in school. I understand I'll need to be vigilant to book at the 8 month mark. But, my question is does it matter the season we purchase in? In other words, I own platinum at Lagunamar and can't book the other season. Is this how it works with StarOptions? If I own a Gold week, can I only book Gold season at a different resort? Or, does it only affect the number of StarOptions you receive?


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## okwiater (Feb 4, 2018)

When making a StarOptions reservation at 8 months or less prior to arrival, all SOs are equal. It doesn’t matter what season or ownership your SOs came from.


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## DeniseM (Feb 4, 2018)

It matters what season you buy, because high season deeds have more Staroptions than low season, but the maintenance fees are the same for both seasons.  But, the season you can exchange INTO is only limited by the number of Staroptions you own, and availability.

What resorts are you trying to trade into?

School holiday weeks have fierce competition for Staroption Exchanges - at some resorts it's impossible to get Christmas and New Years, (like Hawaii) because they were sold as event weeks and only the owners of those weeks can reserve them.

Summer is a more doable, because there are many weeks available (not just one holdiay week) but again, the more flexible you are, the more success you will have.

If you are only interested in the highest demand resorts, it will be difficult.  But if you are flexible about where you go, and your check-in day, you will have more choices.


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## VacationForever (Feb 4, 2018)

HeidingOut said:


> Not trying to hijack this thread. But, am wanting similar advice. We own voluntary Lagunamar. I'm wanting to "trade" within Vistana's network so am thinking of picking up SVV star options to book at the 8 month mark other locations. We can only travel during peak seasons Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break, and Summer since we have young children in school. I understand I'll need to be vigilant to book at the 8 month mark. But, my question is does it matter the season we purchase in? In other words, I own platinum at Lagunamar and can't book the other season. Is this how it works with StarOptions? If I own a Gold week, can I only book Gold season at a different resort? Or, does it only affect the number of StarOptions you receive?


A StarOption is a StarOption regardless of which season or which mandatory resort you buy.  Platinum season gives you more StarOptions than one of a lower/Gold season.  As long as you have enough StarOptions for what you want to book and there is availability, you can book it.

See Staroption chart in the attachment.


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## HeidingOut (Feb 4, 2018)

Summer is probably most likely our target but wouldn't be opposed if something came available during other peak times. We typically like a two week summer beach vacation so that's my target....St. John, Harborside, Lagunamar, Hawaii (once every few years it's a long plane ride) and we were just in Maui year before last. I'm good with travel in June versus July if needed. So, I'm thinking a 95K points SVV since we can drive to Orlando if needed (but it's not my target as we usually stay at Bonnet Creek which we LOVE).


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## DeniseM (Feb 4, 2018)

Be aware that 95K is kind of an odd number of Staroptions that doesn't translate into a 7 night reservation at most resorts, which means you may have leftover Staroptions that you can't use.

For example, for all Hawaii resorts you need 81,000 Staroptions for one bedrooms and 148,100 staroptions for 2 bedrooms, for 7 nights, and of course, twice that for 14 nights.


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## VacationForever (Feb 4, 2018)

One bedroom Oceanfront at Maui does require 95.7K SO.

Another way to use 95.7K is 15 nights in a 1BR in the Gold season at Westin Lagunmar.


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## DeniseM (Feb 4, 2018)

Yes, but Ocean Front reservations are hard to get at 8 months - I have only seen them during the off-season.  The OP is targeting summer, and I'm going to say that 2 weeks in an ocean front unit in Hawaii is going to be impossible to get in the summer, because the owners book them before they ever get to 8 months.


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## HeidingOut (Feb 4, 2018)

Ok that's great information. Most of those places we would get in 1 week at the 81K or even under if booked in June. The leftover points I was thinking we'd bank to get us into a few longer stays as our points "built up" from the leftovers? That maybe faulty logic? But, I was also thinking we'd get into a oceanfront during the summer in Maui (at least every 4-5 years or so). So, I guess that's out. Are the others doable for summer? St. John, Cancun, or Harborside? Cabo is another option but it's another long flight for us. Plus, I actually booked it via a deposited week via II (just retraded it for Aruba Marriott Surf) so must not be quite as difficult to get into as the other Westin resorts.


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## VacationForever (Feb 4, 2018)

If you deposit into II, then SVV 2BR L/O (95.7K prime season) comes in handy as you get 2 trades out of it.  I ONLY buy 2BR L/O, not dedicated 2BR for that reason.

I have not tracked Lagunamar (Cancun) too closely these 2 years, but when I was tracking it, summer availability has not been an issue.  St. John and Harborside require too many flights and overnight from the West Coast that I have not checked them out.  But summer availability will be more challenging at those 2 locations.


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## DeniseM (Feb 4, 2018)

You can only roll over Staroptions for 2 years and then they expire if you don't use them, so for instance, if you bank 2018 Staroptions you have to use them by the end of 2020.  Mexico is easier than Maui, Harborside or WSJ.


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## Ken555 (Feb 6, 2018)

dokken88 said:


> Yes and every year can be had very cheap as well. Just letting OP know that there is NO REASON to pay 15k for Kierland. I had a reseller contat me and tried to convince me I had to pay between 15-20k for a 2BR. Thats baloney. Patience pays off.



It depends how you use the week. If you intend to visit your ownership season every year then it makes sense to buy the 81k cheaper week. If you intend to use SOs, then it doesn’t take many years before the 148k looks much more appealing. 

Your “NO REASON” to purchase a 148k WKV week is patently false, as stated innumerable times on TUG. 


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 6, 2018)

Ken555 said:


> It depends how you use the week. If you intend to visit your ownership season every year then it makes sense to buy the 81k cheaper week. If you intend to use SOs, then it doesn’t take many years before the 148k looks much more appealing.
> 
> Your “NO REASON” to purchase a 148k WKV week is patently false, as stated innumerable times on TUG.
> 
> ...



I think they meant no reason to pay $15K for 148.1K WKV.


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## Ken555 (Feb 6, 2018)

DavidnRobin said:


> I think they meant no reason to pay $15K for 148.1K WKV.



Hi David! Yes, obviously. But not that the same 148k weeks can be had for cheap... this poster actually stated:



> LOOK AT EBAY! Kierland with 81000 SOs going for 499$. 1000 MF. They are on EBAY every day. No way you need to pay more than a 1000$ to get SOs. Im doing same thing!





> Yes and every year can be had very cheap as well. Just letting OP know that there is NO REASON to pay 15k for Kierland. I had a reseller contat me and tried to convince me I had to pay between 15-20k for a 2BR. Thats baloney. Patience pays off.



Those 81k weeks aren't the same as the 148k weeks, as you well know. This unrealistic "baloney" comment about 148k weeks just doesn't make sense unless he uses it during its season. The implication is that this poster believes that all 2-beds are the same (hence "a reseller contat me and tried to convince me I had to pay between 15-20k for a 2BR") and I can only conclude he wants to go to WKV during the ownership season, at which point owning a 148k week doesn't matter.

If this is actually intended to be used for SOs, then it makes even less sense unless he's only planning to keep it for a few years.


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## Hauslord (Feb 18, 2018)

New here and loving these threads! So thanks! One question, follow up from prior post. I’m thinking of buying WKV for 1 week with 148k stariptions, so pay for only one week of MF. Prior post discuss accumulating multiple weeks to get to 148k staroptions.  I’m never owned before so not familiar with availability of other resorts with star options but I would think even a higher up front cost for platinum 1 week with 148k staroptions is better than 2 weeks with two MFs to pay. Am I missing somethings?


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## Ken555 (Feb 18, 2018)

Hauslord said:


> New here and loving these threads! So thanks! One question, follow up from prior post. I’m thinking of buying WKV for 1 week with 148k stariptions, so pay for only one week of MF. Prior post discuss accumulating multiple weeks to get to 148k staroptions.  I’m never owned before so not familiar with availability of other resorts with star options but I would think even a higher up front cost for platinum 1 week with 148k staroptions is better than 2 weeks with two MFs to pay. Am I missing somethings?



If your intent is to use the 148k SOs as SOs every year and not the home resort then one MF is likely less then two. It all depends on how long you anticipate keeping the week. If it’s more than ~5 years, then WKV Plat Plus (148k) is probably a good option for you, as it was for me.


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## bizaro86 (Feb 19, 2018)

Only risk with WKV is that it seems the rental market is softening for Plat weeks. If that continues, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of weeks come on the market hurting resale prices.

Of course, if you're buying to use long term maybe that doesn't matter, but it's something to think about.


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## Ken555 (Feb 19, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> Only risk with WKV is that it seems the rental market is softening for Plat weeks. If that continues, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of weeks come on the market hurting resale prices.
> 
> Of course, if you're buying to use long term maybe that doesn't matter, but it's something to think about.



That’s always a risk. I’m not sure how many actually rent their weeks, tho. I’ve owned since 2005 and had never rented my WKV.


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## vacationtime1 (Feb 19, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> Only risk with WKV is that it seems the rental market is softening for Plat weeks. If that continues, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of weeks come on the market hurting resale prices.
> 
> Of course, if you're buying to use long term maybe that doesn't matter, but it's something to think about.



TUG is funny.

Two or three of us have posted that this years' rentals didn't work as well as previous years and that somehow translates into the market crashing.

I did rent one of my two Kierland units this year -- for 2.5x MF's.  I consider that a success because I still have ten months to use the 81000 SO's remaining.

I will see a trend if the large scale renters of Kierland units drop their prices substantially in the next few weeks; that is a far better metric of where the market really is.


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## Ken555 (Feb 19, 2018)

vacationtime1 said:


> TUG is funny.
> 
> Two or three of us have posted that this years' rentals didn't work as well as previous years and that somehow translates into the market crashing.
> 
> ...



Quick. Buy another week for rental purposes since the market has turned around... ;-)


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## DeniseM (Feb 19, 2018)

I think "crashing" is a little strong: "*seems the rental market is softening"*


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 19, 2018)

Interesting topic.  
I can only speak to my experience and observations based on renting WKV Plat+ (2 weeks) since 2007 at about the same time in March - using the same method (RedWeek), and closely track rental market during this time period.

The WKV rental market has softened.
I have a personal limit as to the minimal I will rent.  Lower than this price, and I will either use the SOs or use.  This is what I am doing this year (using a week and SO exchange).  
Now that our life situation has changed - plan is to use the SOs going forward.




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## okwiater (Feb 20, 2018)

DnR - That’s a bold pronouncement if it’s based solely on your experience renting during a single year. You said you’re closely tracking the WKV rental market — can you share your observations?

Has the supply of sellers increased? Has the number of renters decreased? Did you correlate your rental week to the spring training attractions for each year so you can determine the impact on your rental outcomes? Have you had rental difficulties in the past and if so could you attribute it to any particular cause?


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 20, 2018)

Sorry - I was lying. Totally making up what I had already posted in this thread and over the Years.
jarta? Is that you?


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## okwiater (Feb 20, 2018)

DavidnRobin said:


> Sorry - I was lying. Totally making up what I had already posted in this thread and over the Years.
> jarta? Is that you?



I'm not aware of anybody accusing you of making anything up. You're an academic, right? I am just curious about your observations. What are they based on? Your own anecdotes or a larger analysis of the market?


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 20, 2018)

I have already stated my individual experience- I realize that it does not rise to statistical significance.
I have nothing to add.
I am not writing a White Paper on the topic.
I will not be renting next year as we will be using the SOs - as planned.
All is good.


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## Palmtreelady1 (Feb 21, 2018)

So i am in Mexico at Lagunamar and it is wonderful. Did the talk. They are offering multiple resorts to purchase as your “home” resort.  Cabo and Cancun. I want to buy more options but if I buy on the resale market I can not convert to points correct?


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## DeniseM (Feb 21, 2018)

You can buy these resorts for pennies on the dollar on the resale market.  The ability to convert to points is absolutely not worth paying thousands and thousands of dollars to the developer.  Don't do it.


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## Palmtreelady1 (Feb 21, 2018)

Thanks Denise we said no If I buy on the resale market I can only go to the resort I buy correct? Sounds silly I know but we bought years ago resale in Vistana and we were able to buy into the program for very little money about 10 years ago. You are always a wealth of knowledge and I told people today about TUG before they do anything


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## DeniseM (Feb 21, 2018)

Yes - if you buy on the resale market _in Mexico_, you can only go to the resort where you own. 

However, there are other Vistana resorts *where you can buy resale and get Staroptions*, and use them for* all *of the Vistana resorts, including Mexico. This is a much better idea than paying thousands of dollars to buy in Mexico.

*9) What do Mandatory and Voluntary mean?*

a. If a resort is *Staroption "Mandatory,"* it means that when the week is sold to a new owner (resale) the Staroption value of the week transfers to the new owner, and the new owner has the right to exchange his timeshare in the Starwood Vacation Network. These resorts are Staroption Mandatory:

* Harborside at Atlantis
** Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West phases only) - cheapest purchase price - often less than $1,000.*
* Westin St. John (Virgin Grand - Hillside only)
* Westin Ka'anapali & Westin Ka'anapali-North
* Westin Kierland Villas


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## Palmtreelady1 (Feb 21, 2018)

Thanks. I will look for Vistana Villages than
Thanks again!!


DeniseM said:


> Yes - if you buy on the resale market _in Mexico_, you can only go to the resort where you own.
> 
> However, there are other Vistana resorts *where you can buy resale and get Staroptions*, and use them for* all *of the Vistana resorts, including Mexico. This is a much better idea than paying thousands of dollars to buy in Mexico.
> 
> ...


!


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## okz (Feb 24, 2018)

buzglyd said:


> And stay away from Mission Hills which isn’t mandatory.
> 
> I just picked up an odd year  Bella 81,000 for $100. I like EOY because I can just forget about using it for a year and plan different vacations.


Hi Buzglyd, What is the maintenance on that EOY Bella? Thx.


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## buzglyd (Feb 24, 2018)

okz said:


> Hi Buzglyd, What is the maintenance on that EOY Bella? Thx.



I believe it's about $700. You pay half each year. I picked up odd year 81,000 for $100.


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## DeniseM (Feb 24, 2018)

You can find maintenance fees for most resorts in the maintenance fee sticky at the top of the Vistana Forum main page.


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## nuwermj (Feb 25, 2018)

buzglyd said:


> I believe it's about $700. You pay half each year. I picked up odd year 81,000 for $100.



How does Vistana allocate the options: 40,500 every year or 81,000 every other year?


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## buzglyd (Feb 25, 2018)

nuwermj said:


> How does Vistana allocate the options: 40,500 every year or 81,000 every other year?



I don’t know yet but I’m pretty sure it will be 81000 every odd year


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## VacationForever (Feb 25, 2018)

nuwermj said:


> How does Vistana allocate the options: 40,500 every year or 81,000 every other year?


81K every other year for biennial weeks.


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## dokken88 (Jun 24, 2018)

Ken555 said:


> Hi David! Yes, obviously. But not that the same 148k weeks can be had for cheap... this poster actually stated:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Fumny..6 mos later I see this reply! I was only talking about no need to pay that much. Units can be had all over for cheap. My angle is only SOs and zero intention of going to my " home" resort. I went with the low MF and cheap buy in angle. I needed 132K to get myself 3 weeks at WSJ. 3 weeks will cost me about 2300 a year in MFs. Again just was telling OG poster that units can be cheaply had. Definately am not saavy enough yet to comment on other ownership angels!  Btw was able to obtain 132K SOs for about 700$..Thats probably 650$ more than I needed to pay! 
Enjoy those vacations!!


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## CPNY (Jun 18, 2019)

A lot of great info here. I own at HRA and unfortunately purchased precon and paid a hefty price. I purchased in the summer months so my MF are ridiculous and I have a low amount of SO. I was lucky enough to pick up SVV key west 2 bedroom LO with 95,700 SO for $800 on eBay. So far it’s been used in  one bedroom oceanfront in Maui and it’s already being occupied next year in Maui. I was thinking of picking up a 3bedroom LO with 139,700 SO with a MF of around 2,000. It’s either that or another 95,700. I’ve looked into WKV and just can not justify spending 15k for 148,100 SO at 1500 MF if I can get a bit less SO at SVV with a slightly higher MF. Thoughts?

I spoke to Vistana sales today and they explained their new Flex programs for both Sheraton and Westin. I was also told but without confirmation that new resorts are possible since they are selling flex. I was also unofficially told to expect a new program in 3Q-4Q with one combined program with MVC OWNERS. this scares me a bit because there will be an influx of people wanting to get into nicer properties we bought into. I’m not a fan of MVC resorts but they do have many more options in destinations. Westin having 5 properties in HI is too much imo but the again I’m an east coaster. 

I was also told Vistana is exercising it’s ROFR a lot lately. I also heard speculation that MVC is also taking back weeks and those are the weeks that will be used in the new program I assume. All i know is, I’m just not sure if buying more SO is worth it. I have an offer out on another SVV unit in KW.


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## CPNY (Jun 18, 2019)

dokken88 said:


> Fumny..6 mos later I see this reply! I was only talking about no need to pay that much. Units can be had all over for cheap. My angle is only SOs and zero intention of going to my " home" resort. I went with the low MF and cheap buy in angle. I needed 132K to get myself 3 weeks at WSJ. 3 weeks will cost me about 2300 a year in MFs. Again just was telling OG poster that units can be cheaply had. Definately am not saavy enough yet to comment on other ownership angels!  Btw was able to obtain 132K SOs for about 700$..Thats probably 650$ more than I needed to pay!
> Enjoy those vacations!!



Where did you buy? 132K SO for 700 with 2300 MF?


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## carpie99 (Jun 19, 2019)

dokken88 said:


> Fumny..6 mos later I see this reply! I was only talking about no need to pay that much. Units can be had all over for cheap. My angle is only SOs and zero intention of going to my " home" resort. I went with the low MF and cheap buy in angle. I needed 132K to get myself 3 weeks at WSJ. 3 weeks will cost me about 2300 a year in MFs. Again just was telling OG poster that units can be cheaply had. Definately am not saavy enough yet to comment on other ownership angels!  Btw was able to obtain 132K SOs for about 700$..Thats probably 650$ more than I needed to pay!
> Enjoy those vacations!!



When are you planning on using these options at WSJ ... I am seeing nearly zero availability?  Major off-season at 8 month mark?

$700 is a great price ... 3 bedrooms are rare and the SVV prime units are getting alot of activity ... last two 95,700 2 bedroom lockoffs went for $1800 and $2400 on ebay and the two on redweek both just sold for $2000.  3 of the 3 bedrooms are on Redweek for $5-6000.


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## CPNY (Jun 29, 2019)

carpie99 said:


> When are you planning on using these options at WSJ ... I am seeing nearly zero availability?  Major off-season at 8 month mark?
> 
> $700 is a great price ... 3 bedrooms are rare and the SVV prime units are getting alot of activity ... last two 95,700 2 bedroom lockoffs went for $1800 and $2400 on ebay and the two on redweek both just sold for $2000.  3 of the 3 bedrooms are on Redweek for $5-6000.


Those 3 bedrooms have been around for a bit. I actually picked up 95,700 SVV KW two years ago for $1000. In escrow for another SVV KW Every other year worth 95,700 for $500. Giving away my HRA, found a taker today actually. By Monday I hope to be in contract to sell and buy. I hope the every other year passes ROFR. Seems like Marriott May exercise that.


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## CPNY (Jun 29, 2019)

[Advertising deleted]


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## dioxide45 (Jul 3, 2019)

The only drawback to those 95,700 2BR LO weeks is that they have a higher than optimal MF to SO ratio. The 2BR units are better for SO generators.


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## CPNY (Jul 4, 2019)

T


dioxide45 said:


> The only drawback to those 95,700 2BR LO weeks is that they have a higher than optimal MF to SO ratio. The 2BR units are better for SO generators.


Very true, when i combine them I’ll get 29,400 more star options than with 2 2 bedrooms. The extra MF I pay is approx 500 more. That 29k SO will go toward a one bedroom at the harborside for my 5 nights Labor Day week trip I usually that’s where my head was at. Plus I wanted enough options for a 2 bedroom lockout at certain resorts like harborside or a premium one bedroom oceanfront in Maui.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jul 4, 2019)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> The general consensus on here in recent times is if you want e.g. Maui then the prime way to avoid disappointment is to buy Maui. For around $11K and $2.7K/year you can pick up a resale of an annual 2BR, be able to reserve at 12 months and have a very good chance of renting it out if you don't use it. Probably like many on here I can only dream that I'd picked mine up at such a price


We have always been able to get into. Maui so far at 8 mos.  We have gone in May  June, and Jan so far. We don't expect to get in in July or holidays. We would rather do this than pay Hawaii maintenance fees. If flexible it can be done but again not sure if it will continue when Marriott makes changes. At that point we will revise our strategy


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## momeason (Jul 8, 2019)

The Star option program can be changed at any moment and inventory may not be very high. I have never tried to buy for a specific resort. Vistana has limited resorts available. IF you want summer or holiday weeks I am not sure timeshare ownership is a great option. I have been happy with my prior exchanges using my SDO, but I am very glad that I did not invest very much. We are fairly flexible with dates and seasons. 
My husband has recently been diagnosed with serious back problems which will likely get worse. If we decide to get out of timesharing, I am fairly sure we could sell for what we paid or give it away. 
My point is do not expect too much and you will not be disappointed. The program is not nearly as good as any salesman tells you it is. It takes work to make the program work for you and then it might change.


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## Vcheng20 (Jul 11, 2019)

Hi. I just finished a VRBO rental at the Westin Kaanapali and loved it. We went to the presentation and love the fact that you can trade your options to Bonvoy points. We are titanium elite with Bonvoy so that will come in handy. That said, the 60k price tag for 148100 options annually was no go for me. I saw some on the resale market and would like some help...

1) if I buy less options here, and then buy options at another mandatory resort, can I combine the options, and still be able to book 8-12 months in advance?  I see a lot of deals at the other resorts so I’m hoping to save a few bucks
2) if I buy from the resale market, can I still trade for Bonvoy points?  Is there a cost?
3) is there something that I’m missing through the resale market?


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## carpie99 (Jul 11, 2019)

1) if I buy less options here, and then buy options at another mandatory resort, can I combine the options, and still be able to book 8-12 months in advance?  I see a lot of deals at the other resorts so I’m hoping to save a few bucks



2) if I buy from the resale market, can I still trade for Bonvoy points?  Is there a cost?
3) is there something that I’m missing through the resale market?[/QUOTE]


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## carpie99 (Jul 11, 2019)

1) if I buy less options here, and then buy options at another mandatory resort, can I combine the options, and still be able to book 8-12 months in advance?  I see a lot of deals at the other resorts so I’m hoping to save a few bucks - NO if you combine points from other resorts than you can only book after 8 months

2) if I buy from the resale market, can I still trade for Bonvoy points?  Is there a cost? - NO you can't

3) is there something that I’m missing through the resale market?[/QUOTE] - Only thing missing is you won't be able to convert to Bonvoy points ... which is basically the worst thing you could do with Hawaii StarOptions anyway so don't do it


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jul 11, 2019)

Vcheng20 said:


> Hi. I just finished a VRBO rental at the Westin Kaanapali and loved it. We went to the presentation and love the fact that you can trade your options to Bonvoy points. We are titanium elite with Bonvoy so that will come in handy. That said, the 60k price tag for 148100 options annually was no go for me. I saw some on the resale market and would like some help...
> 
> 1) if I buy less options here, and then buy options at another mandatory resort, can I combine the options, and still be able to book 8-12 months in advance?  I see a lot of deals at the other resorts so I’m hoping to save a few bucks
> 2) if I buy from the resale market, can I still trade for Bonvoy points?  Is there a cost?
> 3) is there something that I’m missing through the resale market?


1. No if you buy elsewhere you exchange at 8 months. You can combine SOs but only at 8 months out. Also only 7 resorts in the system allow you to exchange internally (read the stickies at the top)         2. No If you buy resale you cannot use hotel points. It is not a good value anyways.


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## controller1 (Jul 11, 2019)

Vcheng20 said:


> Hi. I just finished a VRBO rental at the Westin Kaanapali and loved it. We went to the presentation and love the fact that you can trade your options to Bonvoy points. We are titanium elite with Bonvoy so that will come in handy. That said, the 60k price tag for 148100 options annually was no go for me. I saw some on the resale market and would like some help...
> 
> 1) if I buy less options here, and then buy options at another mandatory resort, can I combine the options, and still be able to book 8-12 months in advance?  I see a lot of deals at the other resorts so I’m hoping to save a few bucks



Are they selling you 148,100 options in Westin Flex or are they wanting to sell you a 2-BR lockoff week which equates to 148,100 StarOptions?  There is a difference because if they are selling you Westin Flex, there is no mandatory about it.  With that said, the other answers you have received are correct.


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## CPNY (Jul 11, 2019)

Vcheng20 said:


> Hi. I just finished a VRBO rental at the Westin Kaanapali and loved it. We went to the presentation and love the fact that you can trade your options to Bonvoy points. We are titanium elite with Bonvoy so that will come in handy. That said, the 60k price tag for 148100 options annually was no go for me. I saw some on the resale market and would like some help...
> 
> 1) if I buy less options here, and then buy options at another mandatory resort, can I combine the options, and still be able to book 8-12 months in advance?  I see a lot of deals at the other resorts so I’m hoping to save a few bucks
> 2) if I buy from the resale market, can I still trade for Bonvoy points?  Is there a cost?
> 3) is there something that I’m missing through the resale market?



If you’re going to buy, you have two options. 1 buy a mandatory deed. Kaanapali is mandatory. However you’ll be paying dearly for your maint fees., or 2 buy a developer purchase

2 if you buy resale, no you cannot trade for bonvoy points unless you retro the resale back in the network you’re already a member of. You would have to buy a developer purchase. Not worth it imo just to convert to bonvoy points.

3. Buy a 2 bedroom in kierland for 148k star options. You’ll pay around 12K buy In but your maint fees will be around 1,500.

If you really want to go back to Kaanapali, think about what time of year you want to go and how big of a room you’ll need. I’ve been able to get oceanfront premium one bedrooms in the spring at 8 month period at midnight the two years in a row I tried. It’s a lower time of the year, just after whale season and post spring break but before summer vacations. If you wanted to go to Hawaii every year and you want a prime season and a specific room type (OF) then buy into Kaanapali and you’ll have 12 month priority.

I’m sure it’s been answered, but you can’t combine options from two resorts until the 8 month mark.


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## pchung6 (Jul 11, 2019)

1) if I buy less options here, and then buy options at another mandatory resort, can I combine the options, and still be able to book 8-12 months in advance?  I see a lot of deals at the other resorts so I’m hoping to save a few bucks
No, you cannot combine homeoptions to book at 8-12 months.  You can only book what type room, view, season and location of what you own.

2) if I buy from the resale market, can I still trade for Bonvoy points?  Is there a cost?
No, you can't trade for Bonvoy points, but you don't need Bonvoy points if you are in timeshare.  If you retro resale, i believe there is a $99 fee to convert to Bonvoy points.  Usually the point ratio of conversion is not worth the MF you pay.

3) is there something that I’m missing through the resale market?
Buy where you want to go.  If you like Ka'anapali like I do, just buy WKORV or WKORVN.  It might be expensive upfront right now, but it worthes the money when you know the availability is there at 12 months and guarantees the view, and also removed all the hassle of trading game via VSN or Interval.  However, if you are ok with offseason, you can consider to buy a cheaper mandatory resort.  I would not take risk of westin kierland for $12k now until Marriott announces what they will do with VSN. There is a possibility they might devalue the exchange value in westin kierland. It's just my opinion.


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## CPNY (Jul 11, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> 1) if I buy less options here, and then buy options at another mandatory resort, can I combine the options, and still be able to book 8-12 months in advance?  I see a lot of deals at the other resorts so I’m hoping to save a few bucks
> No, you cannot combine homeoptions to book at 8-12 months.  You can only book what type room, view, season and location of what you own.
> 
> 2) if I buy from the resale market, can I still trade for Bonvoy points?  Is there a cost?
> ...



To your point about what Marriott will do, you won’t have to worry about the trading game with VSN/II or whatever new program Marriott rolls out. I got out of harborside resort, if my SVV won’t get me back there the way it does now, I’ll drastically cut down on my ownerships and just rent cheap weeks on redweek or the marketplace. But very true, we have no idea what Marriott will do. So, buying the resort where they want to go is probably the best thing to do. Especially for Kaanapali. That will be a coveted resort I imagine.


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## Vcheng20 (Jul 12, 2019)

Awesome. Thanks so much for the advice!


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 12, 2019)

There is a very cogent discussion on another thread about the challenges MVC will have with valuing the Desert weeks (AZ/CA) compared to the MVC points equivalents for the same location (see below).This may result in the ability to continue to trade WKV/SDO weeks in SVN to get Maui for current SO value but devaluing such value in the new MVC trust compared to Maui. Significant Maui SO inventory availability may ultimately shift to the MVC points program if they make very attractive offers to Maui Owners to enroll to build that trust. This means that there is lower risk with SVV (Key West, Bella) because of lower buy-in but who knows what they will charge to enroll and they could also experience a decline of inventory in SVN over time if attractive offers are made to St. John, Maui, Harborside owners. Of course all speculation at this point.



ocdb8r said:


> This poses several bigger problems to MVC though:
> ...
> 
> 2) for SVN weeks owners, they offer an option to enroll in the DC with your week being set at a fixed DC point value (completely unrelated to the SVN StarOptions value and based closer to similar MVC resort values), basically the same as what they did with MVC weeks owners when they launched the program.  Yes, weeks owners will see a mismatch between the value ascribed compared to (1) above, but I think MVC could explain it away.  Likely more in demand weeks/resorts (Maui. ski weeks...etc) will end up with a value higher than the fixed rate above and less in demand weeks/resorts (Orlando, mud weeks...etc) will end up with a value lower than the fixed rate above.  For non-trust resorts, they don't have a true way to compare...and most of these are likely to be in demand resorts which would get a decent DC point value offered.
> ...


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