# Should we upgrade from legacy to Hyatt pure points



## Floridaski

Just left a owners update, new pure points program has some benefits - longer time in system, no hrc, cup, or lcup, can receive before legacy owners, can transfer less then 100% to world of Hyatt - did not see a down side - we do not use our 2000 pt deeded BH week, always go another time or to different  hyatt resort.  Is the sales guy lying or does it make sense to upgrade to pure points if you are not using your deeded week?


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## TUGBrian

here is a big thread on it

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/hyatt-pure-points-program.251134/


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## lizap

Floridaski said:


> Just left a owners update, new pure points program has some benefits - longer time in system, no hrc, cup, or lcup, can receive before legacy owners, can transfer less then 100% to world of Hyatt - did not see a down side - we do not use our 2000 pt deeded BH week, always go another time or to different  hyatt resort.  Is the sales guy lying or does it make sense to upgrade to pure points if you are not using your deeded week?




Would wait till we see the particulars of PPP in writing, which should be soon.  I believe there will be flexibility in the new system for deeded owners.


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## Kal

Floridaski said:


> Just left a owners update, new pure points program has some benefits - longer time in system, no hrc, cup, or lcup, can receive before legacy owners, can transfer less then 100% to world of Hyatt - did not see a down side - we do not use our 2000 pt deeded BH week, always go another time or to different  hyatt resort.  Is the sales guy lying or does it make sense to upgrade to pure points if you are not using your deeded week?


Are you using your points?  If so, you have far more choices than with the PPP.  What was the cost to move into the PPP?


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## bizaro86

Floridaski said:


> Just left a owners update, new pure points program has some benefits - longer time in system, no hrc, cup, or lcup, can receive before legacy owners, can transfer less then 100% to world of Hyatt - did not see a down side - we do not use our 2000 pt deeded BH week, always go another time or to different  hyatt resort.  Is the sales guy lying or does it make sense to upgrade to pure points if you are not using your deeded week?



Can you book the legacy resorts at 12 months?


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## bobby111

You can book at 15 months "priority access" move some "not all to gold passport", points good for 4 years, in the future, since we NEVER use our deeded week - the Hyatt system may not work for us unless we convert


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## bobby111

Kal said:


> Are you using your points?  If so, you have far more choices than with the PPP.  What was the cost to move into the PPP?


We already have 2000 points at BH - we would add 400 points to move up a category, it would cost $7000 dollars, but I can offset that by using a guest certificate for some of the incentives they would give us.

BIG FACTOR, IF WE BUY POINTS RESALE - THEY WILL NOT COMBINE THE TWO ACCOUNTS - so if unless you use your deeded week every year, the new system is going to blow up the legacy accounts.......


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## bobby111

lizap said:


> Would wait till we see the particulars of PPP in writing, which should be soon.  I believe there will be flexibility in the new system for deeded owners.


New program is out and NO IT DOES NOT OFFER MUCH FOR LEGACY OWNERS - will still work great if you use your deeded week - not so much if you break it up into partial weeks and go to different resorts


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## bobby111

bobby111 said:


> New program is out and NO IT DOES NOT OFFER MUCH FOR LEGACY OWNERS - will still work great if you use your deeded week - not so much if you break it up into partial weeks and go to different resorts


Saw the new program yesterday, it will be much better - no HRC, CUP or LCUP .....big question do we hand over more cash????  We are legacy owners bought BH pre construction, they are selling points for 19.5 per point.

If we could we would wait and buy resale - but the two accounts will not combine - which I understand, they are 2 completely different systems.


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## bobby111

bobby111 said:


> We already have 2000 points at BH - we would add 400 points to move up a category, it would cost $7000 dollars, but I can offset that by using a guest certificate for some of the incentives they would give us.
> 
> BIG FACTOR, IF WE BUY POINTS RESALE - THEY WILL NOT COMBINE THE TWO ACCOUNTS - so if unless you use your deeded week every year, the new system is going to blow up the legacy accounts.......



KAL - have you seen it yet?  We are in Key West now....going back out for some snokerling - but considering making the move.

You can also check in any day - no limit on check in day - it appears to be a much easier system to use.


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## lizap

Kal said:


> Are you using your points?  If so, you have far more choices than with the PPP.  What was the cost to move into the PPP?






bobby111 said:


> New program is out and NO IT DOES NOT OFFER MUCH FOR LEGACY OWNERS - will still work great if you use your deeded week - not so much if you break it up into partial weeks and go to different resorts



This is NOT true.  Can't divulge my source, but the new program will offer current legacy owners flexibility for converting to PPP program. The new program will be better than the Marriott program for current legacy owners.  I would DEFINITELY wait until the particulars are FORMALLY announced (as opposed to salesperson 'speak'). No need to rush to convert at this point..


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## Tucsonadventurer

Floridaski said:


> Just left a owners update, new pure points program has some benefits - longer time in system, no hrc, cup, or lcup, can receive before legacy owners, can transfer less then 100% to world of Hyatt - did not see a down side - we do not use our 2000 pt deeded BH week, always go another time or to different  hyatt resort.  Is the sales guy lying or does it make sense to upgrade to pure points if you are not using your deeded week?


Will inventory be separate? Hawaii is not included, correct?


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## lizap

Tucsonadventurer said:


> Will inventory be separate? Hawaii is not included, correct?



Correct, Hawaii is NOT included, along with Beaver Creek (both resorts), Breckenridge, and PR.


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## Tucsonadventurer

lizap said:


> Correct, Hawaii is NOT included, along with Beaver Creek (both resorts), Breckenridge, and PR.


Wonder if that will make Hawaii easier to get if many convert.I would not want to lose the ability to go to Hawaii or to get to Colorado in the summer. Also will the 4 day midweek benefit stay for legacy owners?That has helped stretch our points a lot.


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## lizap

bobby111 said:


> We already have 2000 points at BH - we would add 400 points to move up a category, it would cost $7000 dollars, but I can offset that by using a guest certificate for some of the incentives they would give us.
> 
> BIG FACTOR, IF WE BUY POINTS RESALE - THEY WILL NOT COMBINE THE TWO ACCOUNTS - so if unless you use your deeded week every year, the new system is going to blow up the legacy accounts.......




There will be several options available for current legacy owners.  Purchasing additional points will be one of the options..


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## bobby111

bobby111 said:


> We already have 2000 points at BH - we would add 400 points to move up a category, it would cost $7000 dollars, but I can offset that by using a guest certificate for some of the incentives they would give us.
> 
> BIG FACTOR, IF WE BUY POINTS RESALE - THEY WILL NOT COMBINE THE TWO ACCOUNTS - so if unless you use your deeded week every year, the new system is going to blow up the legacy accounts.......


Kal PM me


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## bobby111

I saw the full official program - it's been out for one week.  Saw the details PPP will work better for us since we do not use deeded week - Hawaii is included
- all Hyatt residence clubs


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## lizap

Tucsonadventurer said:


> Wonder if that will make Hawaii easier to get if many convert.I would not want to lose the ability to go to Hawaii or to get to Colorado in the summer. Also will the 4 day midweek benefit stay for legacy owners?That has helped stretch our points a lot.[/
> 
> 
> bobby111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw the full official program - it's been out for one week.  Saw the details PPP will work better for us since we do not use deeded week - Hawaii is included
> - all Hyatt residence clubs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless they changed it in the last week, Hawaii was NOT included.  BTW, I notice you are a new poster.  Welcome!
Click to expand...


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## bobby111

bobby111 said:


> Kal PM me


Kal I am at debbietannhauser233@gmail.com - do not want to post price on public forum


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## lizap

bobby111 said:


> I saw the full official program - it's been out for one week.  Saw the details PPP will work better for us since we do not use deeded week - Hawaii is included
> - all Hyatt residence clubs



Unless they changed it in the last week, Hawaii was NOT included.  I see that you are new to this forum. Welcome!


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## bobby111

No I am Floridaski - been a member for 15 years - for some reason I had to renew membership - I won a 5 year membership for a detailed review - anyway somehow the user name changed


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## bobby111

Ok our new best friend replied - Breckenridge, Hawaii and aspen are not in PPP - his Lips were moving....


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## bobby111

Wait clarification aspen is in - Hawaii and breck will be


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## lizap

bobby111 said:


> No I am Floridaski - been a member for 15 years - for some reason I had to renew membership - I won a 5 year membership for a detailed review - anyway somehow the user name changed




Again, can't divulge my source, but I too have first-hand knowledge (not from a salesperson's mouth) of the new PPP program, and to my surprise, legacy owners will have flexibility.  Legacy owners will have several options, including purchasing points.  I must say II has done a good job with this, IMO..


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## Kal

bobby111 said:


> Kal I am at debbietannhauser233@gmail.com - do not want to post price on public forum


Please check your email.


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## Tucsonadventurer

bobby111 said:


> Ok our new best friend replied - Breckenridge, Hawaii and aspen are not in PPP - his Lips were moving....


There is not an Aspen in Hyatt that I am aware of


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## lizap

Tucsonadventurer said:


> There is not an Aspen in Hyatt that I am aware of



There is a HRC in Aspen, and it is included in the new PPP.


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## Tucsonadventurer

lizap said:


> Again, can't divulge my source, but I too have first-hand knowledge (not from a salesperson's mouth) of the new PPP program, and to my surprise, legacy owners will have flexibility.  Legacy owners will have several options, including purchasing points.  I must say II has done a good job with this, IMO..


So if you join PP do you give up your week and your ability to bid on Hawaii and Colorado?


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## lizap

Tucsonadventurer said:


> So if you join PP do you give up your week and your ability to bid on Hawaii and Colorado?



I'm not sure exactly how this will work, but I believe II will charge current legacy owners fees for added flexibility.. The key takeaway is that current legacy owners will have some flexibility with the new system, but there will be fees attached. There is no need to rush into buying points until the particulars of the new system are formally announced, which should be soon.. At that point, people can make decisions that benefit them..


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## bobby111

lizap said:


> Again, can't divulge my source, but I too have first-hand knowledge (not from a salesperson's mouth) of the new PPP program, and to my surprise, legacy owners will have flexibility.  Legacy owners will have several options, including purchasing points.  I must say II has done a good job with this, IMO..


I hope so !!!!


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## Kal

bobby111 said:


> We already have 2000 points at BH - we would add 400 points to move up a category, it would cost $7000 dollars, but I can offset that by using a guest certificate for some of the incentives they would give us.
> 
> BIG FACTOR, IF WE BUY POINTS RESALE - THEY WILL NOT COMBINE THE TWO ACCOUNTS - so if unless you use your deeded week every year, the new system is going to blow up the legacy accounts.......


If you transfer to PPP and move up a category you will have 2400 points.  The total cost would be $7000 plus your BH resort week.  I'm not clear if the $7K is for the additional 400 points ($17.50/point); or the BH transfer fee plus money for the 400 points?


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## bobby111

Kal you hit it exactly....


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## Kal

The very most important feature of the PPP is the available inventory in that system.  My understanding is the HRC resorts in that system are only those that are formally transferred by owners joining the PPP plus unsold inventory.

To me, that is a deal killer as there will be extremely limited availability in the PPP.


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## bobby111

Yes I worry about that....


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## lizap

Kal, II may increase inventory by offering current legacy owners an opportunity to convert to PPP (for a fee) on an annual basis. From what I know, II learned from the mistakes of the Marriott program and will make the PPP better with more flexibility.


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## bobby111

lizap said:


> Kal, II may increase inventory by offering current legacy owners an opportunity to convert to PPP (for a fee) on an annual basis.


Any guess how much on annual fee?


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## Kal

bobby111 said:


> Any guess how much on annual fee?


My guess is it will be higher than in the legacy program.  Reason is add up all the MFs for the units contained in the PPP (transferred HRC units plus other resorts plus unsold inventory) and divide that by the number of PPP players.  In effect, if you transferred a low MF unit into PPP, your new MF will include a portion of the MF for any high-end units (e.g. Aspen) which are in the PPP.  The sum of the MF will be high compared to the relatively low number of PPP players.


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## Kal

lizap said:


> Kal, II may increase inventory by offering current legacy owners an opportunity to convert to PPP (for a fee) on an annual basis. From what I know, II learned from the mistakes of the Marriott program and will make the PPP better with more flexibility.


So for one year, I give up my HRC unit(s) and pay an unknown MF and have very limited choice of PPP resorts.  I would be curious how many HRC owners would take that bait.


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## lizap

Kal said:


> So for one year, I give up my HRC unit(s) and pay an unknown MF and have very limited choice of PPP resorts.  I would be curious how many HRC owners would take that bait.



Really depends on how they set it up.  If they allow legacy owners to see PPP inventory right before they transfer and the fee is modest (which I suspect it will be), I think there may be a number of takers.  Also, there may be a good bit of additional PPP inventory as Hyatt as been quite aggressive with ROFR at certain resorts, as of late.  II is trying to give legacy owners some flexibility, but it will come with a cost. PPP is likely going to be better than Marriott's point system.


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## bdh

bobby111 said:


> You can book at 15 months "priority access"



You should verify what units you can book - PPP or legacy weeks?  You could book a PPP trust week at 15 months out, but won't be able to book a deeded legacy week 15 months out - deeded weeks aren't issued their week until 12 months prior to check in.  No points program can trump a deed and legacy owners control their deeded week 6 months prior to check in.



bobby111 said:


> so if unless you use your deeded week every year, the new system is going to blow up the legacy accounts.......



For that to happen, the PPP owners would have to have access to the legacy weeks - see above and see below.  



lizap said:


> II may increase inventory by offering current legacy owners an opportunity to convert to PPP (for a fee) on an annual basis. From what I know, II learned from the mistakes of the Marriott program and will make the PPP better with more flexibility.



Being able to toggle in/out of the PPP is just what was mentioned as an option 2-3 months ago to entice legacy owners to participate in the PPP.  Expect HRC had to do this as they do not have enough weeks in the Trust to support widespread PPP use at the older/sold out properties.  No doubt HRC has been stepping up their ROFR take backs in recent months, but it has been NO WHERE near the level that the salespeople have been stating.

FWIW: just don't see that many legacy owners jumping at the PPP.  But will be interesting to see what is PPP has to offer to legacy owners that would entice them to open their wallets AND give up their deeded week.  However, the PPP may work for legacy owners that don't ever use their week.


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## bobby111

bdh said:


> You should verify what units you can book - PPP or legacy weeks?  You could book a PPP trust week at 15 months out, but won't be able to book a deeded legacy week 15 months out - deeded weeks aren't issued their week until 12 months prior to check in.  No points program can trump a deed and legacy owners control their deeded week 6 months prior to check in.
> 
> 
> 
> For that to happen, the PPP owners would have to have access to the legacy weeks - see above and see below.
> 
> 
> 
> Being able to toggle in/out of the PPP is just what was mentioned as an option 2-3 months ago to entice legacy owners to participate in the PPP.  Expect HRC had to do this as they do not have enough weeks in the Trust to support widespread PPP use at the older/sold out properties.  No doubt HRC has been stepping up their ROFR take backs in recent months, but it has been NO WHERE near the level that the salespeople have been stating.
> 
> FWIW: just don't see that many legacy owners jumping at the PPP.  But will be interesting to see what is PPP has to offer to legacy owners that would entice them to open their wallets AND give up their deeded week.  However, the PPP may work for legacy owners that don't ever use their week.


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## bobby111

bdh said:


> You should verify what units you can book - PPP or legacy weeks?  You could book a PPP trust week at 15 months out, but won't be able to book a deeded legacy week 15 months out - deeded weeks aren't issued their week until 12 months prior to check in.  No points program can trump a deed and legacy owners control their deeded week 6 months prior to check in.
> 
> 
> 
> For that to happen, the PPP owners would have to have access to the legacy weeks - see above and see below.
> 
> 
> 
> Being able to toggle in/out of the PPP is just what was mentioned as an option 2-3 months ago to entice legacy owners to participate in the PPP.  Expect HRC had to do this as they do not have enough weeks in the Trust to support widespread PPP use at the older/sold out properties.  No doubt HRC has been stepping up their ROFR take backs in recent months, but it has been NO WHERE near the level that the salespeople have been stating.
> 
> FWIW: just don't see that many legacy owners jumping at the PPP.  But will be interesting to see what is PPP has to offer to legacy owners that would entice them to open their wallets AND give up their deeded week.  However, the PPP may work for legacy owners that don't ever use their week.


Yes our issue is we own a Key West 2000 point week, we come down to key west 2-3 times a year - but never once used our deeded week!


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## bobby111

lizap said:


> Really depends on how they set it up.  If they allow legacy owners to see PPP inventory right before they transfer and the fee is modest (which I suspect it will be), I think there may be a number of takers.  Also, there may be a good bit of additional PPP inventory as Hyatt as been quite aggressive with ROFR at certain resorts, as of late.  II is trying to give legacy owners some flexibility, but it will come with a cost. PPP is likely going to be better than Marriott's point system.


Kal the MF goes UP, UP, UP our current MF is around 1293, it would go up $500 dollars to around $1850!!!


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## Kal

bobby111 said:


> Kal the MF goes UP, UP, UP our current MF is around 1293, it would go up $500 dollars to around $1850!!!


At some point an owner has to give serious thought to the MF.  At original purchase time, the resort itself took center stage and the MF was a line item.  Now with continuous annual increases there will come a point where it doesn't compute.  My guess is the VRBO and Airbnb approach will have a much larger impact over time.  A $1850 MF would equate to $260/night so we have to continue to consider the numbers.  What is the break point???  Then too every year we all seem to get a year older and our life style needs change.  Just another number to consider.


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## lizap

I think it all depends on how you use your TS(s) and associated points. If you can use your points to exchange into resorts, such as Hawaii, you're going to come out way ahead. Also, I can easily get 2 weeks at excellent Marriotts (in FL and Palm Desert) in 1 BR units. Earlier this year, I  got a 2 BR in FL (although had to pay a small upgrade fee) during the Holiday season for 870 points. So, TSing still is a huge bargain for us..


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## bdh

bobby111 said:


> Kal the MF goes UP, UP, UP our current MF is around 1293, it would go up $500 dollars to around $1850!!!



Yikes, a 40% increase in MF is a big jump.  Would need to be a lot of benefits to the PPP for a legacy owner to pay $7K to give up their week for a higher MF.  Can't wait to read/hear all the PPP details.


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## Kal

bdh said:


> Yikes, a 40% increase in MF is a big jump.  Would need to be a lot of benefits to the PPP for a legacy owner to pay $7K to give up their week for a higher MF.  Can't wait to read/hear all the PPP details.


Pretty soon it's like REAL MONEY!

The more I see, the more I think Hyatt is targeting new buyers and not so much legacy owners.  They will throw a few crumbs to entice transfer, but they probably realize it would take too much to get legacy's to give up their unit(s).


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## Tucsonadventurer

if I'm paying huge PP MFs then I'd rather just buy a Hawaii unit. Makes no sense to pay increases in MF. The 7,000 is less of an issue for me but both, I would have to get a heck of a lot more to make it worthwhile.


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## Sugarcubesea

bobby111 said:


> KAL - have you seen it yet?  We are in Key West now....going back out for some snokerling - but considering making the move.
> 
> You can also check in any day - no limit on check in day - it appears to be a much easier system to use.


I'm in Key West as well at the Winward Pointe and they have talked to me twice about buying in.  Thankfully with my daughter graduating from high school in the next week my money is spoken for the next 4 years


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## bdh

Kal said:


> The more I see, the more I think Hyatt is targeting new buyers and not so much legacy owners.  They will throw a few crumbs to entice transfer, but they probably realize it would take too much to get legacy's to give up their unit(s).



Agreed that the PPP does not sound very enticing to the legacy owner.  However, there has to be something to attract the legacy owner to buy into the PPP as HRC needs access to the legacy owner weeks to provide adequate selection for the PPP - otherwise, the PPP has a limited number of trust resort locations and weeks.  Yes/No?


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## bdh

Sugarcubesea said:


> I'm in Key West as well at the Winward Pointe and they have talked to me twice about buying in.  Thankfully with my daughter graduating from high school in the next week my money is spoken for the next 4 years



Is the Hyatt sales center still there at WP?  Or have they moved to the new office in Old Town on Front St?


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## Sugarcubesea

bdh said:


> Is the Hyatt sales center still there at WP?  Or have they moved to the new office in Old Town on Front St?


They made me go the concierge and for the parking pass. Each morning when I go in for my Starbucks coffee he hits me up. I'm a Vistana owner whe exchanged into this resort.  They are very nice but extremely persistent.  I really like this resort. So I'm a bit weak right now and I think they smell that. LOL


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## WalnutBaron

Might be a good idea to go someplace else for your coffee  Step away from the cliff and buy resale!


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## Sugarcubesea

WalnutBaron said:


> Might be a good idea to go someplace else for your coffee  Step away from the cliff and buy resale!


It's FREE Starbucks coffee and I'm good at saying NO, however I will be pissed if they ticket or tow my car because they have yet to give me my parking pass.


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## WalnutBaron

It's a good thing you're good at saying no; otherwise, that free coffee could wind up being brutally expensive


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## Sugarcubesea

WalnutBaron said:


> It's a good thing you're good at saying no; otherwise, that free coffee could wind up being brutally expensive


So true, the only reason I'm so good at it right now, is I have 1 kid in college and 1 starting in the fall,  I'm paying for half of each kid plus all of their extra's which sometimes is a ton of money but they are good kids, work hard and get good grades...


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## Floridaski

lizap said:


> Kal, II may increase inventory by offering current legacy owners an opportunity to convert to PPP (for a fee) on an annual basis. From what I know, II learned from the mistakes of the Marriott program and will make the PPP better with more flexibility.


Yes for thousands of dol


bdh said:


> Is the Hyatt sales center still there at WP?  Or have they moved to the new office in Old Town on Front St?


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## Floridaski

Sugarcubesea said:


> They made me go the concierge and for the parking pass. Each morning when I go in for my Starbucks coffee he hits me up. I'm a Vistana owner whe exchanged into this resort.  They are very nice but extremely persistent.  I really like this resort. So I'm a bit weak right now and I think they smell that. LOL


The sales center is a new office (just moved in last week) on front street - VERY nice, with smart boards and lots of amenities


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## Floridaski

PS I am the one that started thread, we decided to pass PPP and keep 2000 point week in deeded system- we got the full presentation - it (PPP) has its perks - but I do not want to one of the first to convert.  I do not think it will cost us any more to convert in a year or two.  My prior posts were under Bobby111 - we have been so happy with Hyatt and our condos in Colorado- I have not been on board for quite sometime - thank you for everyone's advice - you saved us from spending $1000's of dollars in an unproven brand new system!!!  Plus our son graduated HS on Saturday- that's why we're here - celebrating, 4 years small private college, and 4 more after that that for his VMD, at least $100,000 plus - over the next 8 years he got lucrative academic scholarships, plus he's swimming in College - but we are frugal!!! So we spend our hard dollars wisely!  Thank you !!!!


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## Floridaski

bdh said:


> Is the Hyatt sales center still there at WP?  Or have they moved to the new office in Old Town on Front St?


Moved to front street last week, very nice, smart boards and very upscale!!!


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## Floridaski

lizap said:


> There is a HRC in Aspen, and it is included in the new PPP.


There is a HRC in Aspen it's very nice


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## lizap

Floridaski said:


> Yes for thousands of dol




A little "birdie" told me it's not going to be thousands of dollars to convert to PPP on an annual basis, but likely a relatively modest fee.


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## Floridaski

bdh said:


> Agreed that the PPP does not sound very enticing to the legacy owner.  However, there has to be something to attract the legacy owner to buy into the PPP as HRC needs access to the legacy owner weeks to provide adequate selection for the PPP - otherwise, the PPP has a limited number of trust resort locations and weeks.  Yes/No?


Yes inventory is my biggest concern right now - what good is any day Check in and 15 month priority access / if there is not sufficient weeks in trust??? I would have shelled out more $$$, pay higher MF for a new system - really, really like the benefits - but we are waiting to see what really happens - to BAD - we were ready to pull the trigger ....


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## Floridaski

lizap said:


> A little "birdie" told me it's not going to be thousands of dollars to convert to PPP on an annual basis, but likely a relatively modest fee.


Not what we saw yesterday - if it was modest we would have done it I. The spot!


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## lizap

Floridaski said:


> Not what we saw yesterday - if it was modest we would have done it I. The spot!



Perhaps the original plan was changed in the last week, but I doubt it.  The plan to allow existing legacy owners to convert to PPP on an annual basis is likely not operational yet. Likely the salesperson was trying to sell you additional points.


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## Tucsonadventurer

lizap said:


> Perhaps the original plan was changed in the last week, but I doubt it.  The plan to allow existing legacy owners to convert to PPP on an annual basis is likely not operational yet. Likely the salesperson was trying to sell you additional points.


Will your MFs go up if you convert for a yr?. What is the deal for new owners?


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## lizap

Tucsonadventurer said:


> Will your MFs go up if you convert for a yr?. What is the deal for new owners?[/QUOTE
> 
> I'm not sure, but I don't think so. There will be a fee for this privilege.


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## bobby111

Sadly the MF will go up for any PPP program member - annual or conversion


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## Kal

Floridaski said:


> Yes inventory is my biggest concern right now - what good is any day Check in and 15 month priority access / if there is not sufficient weeks in trust??? I would have shelled out more $$$, pay higher MF for a new system - really, really like the benefits - but we are waiting to see what really happens - to BAD - we were ready to pull the trigger ....


If I was sitting in the chair listening to the pitch I would take this approach.  "I'm ready to buy in right now, and want to use the PPP points tomorrow.  Show me the current PPP availability that I can select immediately".  My guess is the huckster will give you the look of a deer in the headlights.


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## lizap

Kal said:


> If I was sitting in the chair listening to the pitch I would take this approach.  "I'm ready to buy in right now, and want to use the PPP points tomorrow.  Show me the current PPP availability that I can select immediately".  My guess is the huckster will give you the look of a deer in the headlights.



I think this is the primary problem here.  Much of the info. that has been reported is from salespeople trying to make a sale. What I have learned is NOT from a salesperson.  Of course, it could change, but I think when the official rollout is made, the details will look a good deal different than what some here are reporting the salespeople have told them.


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## bobby111

Great idea, we are coming back down in a few months - I am going to do that to my new best friend!!


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## Cropman

So, the official rollout has not happened.  Does this mean they are still trying to sell weeks they have in inventory?  Also, could you buy today what they have been pushing on the points?  And if you can buy the points program today, wouldn't that mean they already have the docs printed up for the new program?  And if that's true, why won't they release the details yet?


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## bobby111

No longer selling weeks, points only, buy deeded weeks from Tug or Red Week - get a resale!


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## lizap

Cropman said:


> So, the official rollout has not happened.  Does this mean they are still trying to sell weeks they have in inventory?  Also, could you buy today what they have been pushing on the points?  And if you can buy the points program today, wouldn't that mean they already have the docs printed up for the new program?  And if that's true, why won't they release the details yet?



I believe they have started selling PPP in FL at this point.  There will be a gradual rollout in other states, moving to the West.  Legacy owners will receive an  "official" announcement with particulars detailing our options.


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## bobby111

At the presentation this week, they stated that in Key West they are NO longer selling weeks, only points - no other option - but who knows....I would buy resale now while you can.  But it anywhere....


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## lizap

bobby111 said:


> At the presentation this week, they stated that in Key West they are NO longer selling weeks, only points - no other option - but who knows....I would buy resale now while you can.  But it anywhere....



Once PPP is introduced, deeded weeks will no longer be sold by Hyatt. However, you will still be able to buy deeded resale weeks.


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## WalnutBaron

bobby111 said:


> At the presentation this week, they stated that in Key West they are NO longer selling weeks, only points - no other option - but who knows....I would buy resale now while you can.  But it anywhere....


I agree. Once PPP is rolled out, owners of fixed weeks in the legacy program will, in my opinion, be in the catbird's seat. Let's face it: despite what the sales weasels will tell you, ILG is _not_ motivated to create a new program that benefits owners. PPP is for the benefit of the company's shareholders, which means that owners of the legacy program will have something of increasing value and scarcity--especially as Hyatt continues to buy more desirable weeks through ROFR to place into the PPP inventory.

I also find it interesting that Hyatt has delayed the rollout at least twice since PPP was first being "whispered" by the sales weasels. I wonder if they're having trouble acquiring enough legacy inventory or if they are also struggling with creating enough of a value proposition for legacy owners to be tempted to make the conversion.


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## lizap

I don't know why the delay(s) have occurred, but I'm sure there is a definitive plan for the rollout of PPP and what it will involve for new as well as existing legacy owners.


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## Cropman

Cripes, this thing has better secrecy than the White House.


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## WalnutBaron

Cropman said:


> Cripes, this thing has better secrecy than the White House.


And enough speculative misinformation (courtesy of the sales weasels) to make any politician proud.


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## bdh

WalnutBaron said:


> I agree. Once PPP is rolled out, owners of fixed weeks in the legacy program will, in my opinion, be in the catbird's seat. Let's face it: despite what the sales weasels will tell you, ILG is _not_ motivated to create a new program that benefits owners. PPP is for the benefit of the company's shareholders, which means that owners of the legacy program will have something of increasing value and scarcity--especially as Hyatt continues to buy more desirable weeks through ROFR to place into the PPP inventory.
> 
> I also find it interesting that Hyatt has delayed the rollout at least twice since PPP was first being "whispered" by the sales weasels. I wonder if they're having trouble acquiring enough legacy inventory or if they are also struggling with creating enough of a value proposition for legacy owners to be tempted to make the conversion.



Legacy owners that use their deeded week have absolutely nothing to fear with PPP - sit back and enjoy the movie. Legacy owners that never use their deeded week may have some concern with PPP - but that may vary by property.  With SH being an older long ago sold out property, expect there would be limited access by the PPP - so legacy owners exchanging in shouldn't experience significantly more difficulty than they do now getting in (however its obviously not an easy task now).  But even with all new units at Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation being in the PPP, I still don't see a significant legacy exchange concern as there should still be plenty of access via the current deeded week buildings.  Will have to see how it plays out at the various HRC properties.  Agree with WB in that legacy owners will be fine and there is no need to rush out and sign up or buy into the PPP.  

HRC's ROFR decision process has always been cloaked in secrecy - add in their mercurial thoughts as to what and when they buy and its close to a total crap shoot.  If they were serious about acquiring deeds via ROFR for the PPP, why in the world would they have let the sale of a 2200 pt WP week clear ROFR at $6350 six weeks ago?

The delay in the roll out is expected to have been due to legal issues (approval by the state/s).


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## theo

Cropman said:


> ... better secrecy than the White House.



I'd really love to jump in to expound on this, but don't want be admonished or spanked for offering prohibited political commentary.


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## scsu_hockey_fan

bdh said:


> Legacy owners that use their deeded week have absolutely nothing to fear with PPP - sit back and enjoy the movie. Legacy owners that never use their deeded week may have some concern with PPP - but that may vary by property.  With SH being an older long ago sold out property, expect there would be limited access by the PPP - so legacy owners exchanging in shouldn't experience significantly more difficulty than they do now getting in (however its obviously not an easy task now).  But even with all new units at Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation being in the PPP, I still don't see a significant legacy exchange concern as there should still be plenty of access via the current deeded week buildings.  Will have to see how it plays out at the various HRC properties.  Agree with WB in that legacy owners will be fine and there is no need to rush out and sign up or buy into the PPP.
> 
> HRC's ROFR decision process has always been cloaked in secrecy - add in their mercurial thoughts as to what and when they buy and its close to a total crap shoot.  If they were serious about acquiring deeds via ROFR for the PPP, why in the world would they have let the sale of a 2200 pt WP week clear ROFR at $6350 six weeks ago?
> 
> The delay in the roll out is expected to have been due to legal issues (approval by the state/s).


I think the reason for the inconsistent rofr is pretty simple to see and understand. If they take back everything that will only drive the prices up which means less profit for them.


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## Kal

How could it be explained that in May 2017, Hyatt passed on a Sunset Harbor unit where the selling price was $3,250?  That would leave more than sufficient profit to Hyatt.  Prospective buyers would not see that as prices being driven up.


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## dagger1

Kal said:


> How could it be explained that in May 2017, Hyatt passed on a Sunset Harbor unit where the selling price was $3,250?  That would leave more than sufficient profit to Hyatt.  Prospective buyers would not see that as prices being driven up.


Kal, do you have any idea why Hyatt would pass on this unit at that price?  What a deal!!


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## Kal

dagger1 said:


> Kal, do you have any idea why Hyatt would pass on this unit at that price?  What a deal!!


No idea how Hyatt makes those decisions.  It clearly shows that Hyatt is NOT agressively taking ROFRs, especially at the highest occupancy rated resort in the system.  It would probably be freightening to see their sausage making process.  More than likely it's simply supply and demand where there's not much demand to purchase something at Hyatt retail prices.

But at the end of the day, we should all congratulate the Tugger who had the intestinal fortitude to make the resale purchase offer!


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## Tucsonadventurer

Kal said:


> No idea how Hyatt makes those decisions.  It clearly shows that Hyatt is NOT agressively taking ROFRs, especially at the highest occupancy rated resort in the system.  It would probably be freightening to see their sausage making process.  More than likely it's simply supply and demand where there's not much demand to purchase something at Hyatt retail prices.
> 
> But at the end of the day, we should all congratulate the Tugger who had the intestinal fortitude to make the resale purchase offer!


It truly seems random how they decide. I think they actively  buy back some months and put their attention elsewhere other months


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## scsu_hockey_fan

Kal said:


> How could it be explained that in May 2017, Hyatt passed on a Sunset Harbor unit where the selling price was $3,250?  That would leave more than sufficient profit to Hyatt.  Prospective buyers would not see that as prices being driven up.


There is an on and off switch as people have observed with no apparent rhyme or reason. Over the long run this is better for their bottom line. It keeps the brokers guessing. If there was a certain knowen threshold, the brokers would only present offers above that and then hyatt would not get them. Or have to pay more if they wanted to buy it back. So they might pass on a low price occasionaly, but their thinking long term. Did I explain that ok?


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## dahntahn

Friends who own at SH just returned and attended a sales presentation there on the new points system.  They were told that the minimum points purchase by a legacy owner would be 400 points costing $ 7800.  Without making this purchase they would have no access to any new inventory open to points owners.
The worrisome detail for legacy owners who relinquish their weeks to trade into other HRC resorts, rather than use their deeded week, is this:

Pure points owners will have top priority in booking the relinquished weeks before legacy owners can.  So when I try to trade my BH points to go to Sedona, the pure points people will have the opportunity to book there before I will.  So as more pure points owners buy in, the competition for being able to trade within HRC is going to steadily increase.  Supposedly, buying 400 points will make a current legacy owner equal in priority for reserving at HRC resorts, as well as any new inventory added to or outside the HRC.

This stinks and is unfair to all us legacy owners out there, but unless you pony up the $ 7800, you are getting screwed.  What else is new?

So if you use your deeded week you are fine.  If, like us, you trade to other HRC resorts, it looks like it will get steadily more difficult to do so.  It may result in more of us using Interval with our Hyatt points.

Of course this is still unofficial but our friends have a brother who is a HRC owner who just yesterday received a letter from Hyatt outlining these terms.  I will see if I can get a copy to post here.


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## Cropman

It will be interesting to see how much time is given to pure points owners to book over legacy owners.  Also, do you have to give up your deeded week forever or can you do it year to year?  $19.50 a point.  The equivalent of almost $43k for a diamond week.  I bet I can buy a deeded week anywhere, including Hawaii, for this amount or a lot less.  Still a lot of questions to be answered but this system is going to be better for us than Marriott's?!?!  Not sounding like it.


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## scsu_hockey_fan

dahntahn said:


> Friends who own at SH just returned and attended a sales presentation there on the new points system.  They were told that the minimum points purchase by a legacy owner would be 400 points costing $ 7800.  Without making this purchase they would have no access to any new inventory open to points owners.
> The worrisome detail for legacy owners who relinquish their weeks to trade into other HRC resorts, rather than use their deeded week, is this:
> 
> Pure points owners will have top priority in booking the relinquished weeks before legacy owners can.  So when I try to trade my BH points to go to Sedona, the pure points people will have the opportunity to book there before I will.  So as more pure points owners buy in, the competition for being able to trade within HRC is going to steadily increase.  Supposedly, buying 400 points will make a current legacy owner equal in priority for reserving at HRC resorts, as well as any new inventory added to or outside the HRC.
> 
> This stinks and is unfair to all us legacy owners out there, but unless you pony up the $ 7800, you are getting screwed.  What else is new?
> 
> So if you use your deeded week you are fine.  If, like us, you trade to other HRC resorts, it looks like it will get steadily more difficult to do so.  It may result in more of us using Interval with our Hyatt points.
> 
> Of course this is still unofficial but our friends have a brother who is a HRC owner who just yesterday received a letter from Hyatt outlining these terms.  I will see if I can get a copy to post here.


It will be very interesting to see how this all pans out. Especially with regards to any possible new restrictions on people who buy lagacy weeks resale and pure points resale in the future. No new restrictions would by really nice to help protect current and future owners to hold resale values from going down any further, or worse yet, can't find any buyers and then be stuck with it.


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## Cropman

I wonder if resale pts or converted weeks to points will transfer in a sale without having to buy back into the system.


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## Tucsonadventurer

And you will be giving  up any chance of trading into  Hawaii by buying into it


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## Tucsonadventurer

dahntahn said:


> Friends who own at SH just returned and attended a sales presentation there on the new points system.  They were told that the minimum points purchase by a legacy owner would be 400 points costing $ 7800.  Without making this purchase they would have no access to any new inventory open to points owners.
> The worrisome detail for legacy owners who relinquish their weeks to trade into other HRC resorts, rather than use their deeded week, is this:
> 
> Pure points owners will have top priority in booking the relinquished weeks before legacy owners can.  So when I try to trade my BH points to go to Sedona, the pure points people will have the opportunity to book there before I will.  So as more pure points owners buy in, the competition for being able to trade within HRC is going to steadily increase.  Supposedly, buying 400 points will make a current legacy owner equal in priority for reserving at HRC resorts, as well as any new inventory added to or outside the HRC.
> 
> This stinks and is unfair to all us legacy owners out there, but unless you pony up the $ 7800, you are getting screwed.  What else is new?
> 
> So if you use your deeded week you are fine.  If, like us, you trade to other HRC resorts, it looks like it will get steadily more difficult to do so.  It may result in more of us using Interval with our Hyatt points.
> 
> Of course this is still unofficial but our friends have a brother who is a HRC owner who just yesterday received a letter from Hyatt outlining these terms.  I will see if I can get a copy to post here.


Is the inventory for legacy still desperate from pure points inventory


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## Tucsonadventurer

Tucsonadventurer said:


> Is the inventory for legacy still desperate from pure points inventory


Separate  not desperate,,sorry


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## dahntahn

The understanding I have is that they remain separate, but pure points owners will have access to the legacy inventory, while legacy owners will not have access to the points only inventory.


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## WalnutBaron

As Cropman has pointed out above, "this thing has more secrecy than the White House"--which means the rest of us are forced to stumble around in speculation and confusion until Hyatt Pure Points Program is formally announced. That said, my understanding is different: PPP inventory will be separate and distinct from the Legacy program. PPP owners will _not _be able to reserve within the legacy program, and vice versa, unless legacy owners decide to purchase separately into the PPP. There have been comments here about PPP and Hyatt exercising ROFR to buy attractive high demand inventory and place it into the PPP, effectively moving that inventory from the legacy program into the PPP. That is being done and has been underway for some time.

Does this potentially limit the attractiveness of the legacy program in terms of owners being able to trade within the legacy system using their points? Potentially, yes--especially if Hyatt gets much more aggressive in buying up those prime weeks and moving them to PPP. But as Kal has pointed out, Hyatt does not appear to be on a mad buying spree, and so I remain optimistic that the legacy owners will continue to have ample opportunities to trade within the HRC system for years to come.

That said, my advice to HRC owners is to avoid "owner's updates" like the plague. The sales weasels will be conjuring up scare tactics like we haven't seen before, with doomsday stories of the demise of HRC and all of the attractions of Hyatt Pure Points, allowing a one-time conversion special of only $xx,xxx in order to make the switch before the HRC program collapses. Just ignore them, enjoy your HRC vacations, and pay attention to the TUG boards to get more realistic information.


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## lizap

WalnutBaron said:


> As Cropman has pointed out above, "this thing has more secrecy than the White House"--which means the rest of us are forced to stumble around in speculation and confusion until Hyatt Pure Points Program is formally announced. That said, my understanding is different: PPP inventory will be separate and distinct from the Legacy program. PPP owners will _not _be able to reserve within the legacy program, and vice versa, unless legacy owners decide to purchase separately into the PPP. There have been comments here about PPP and Hyatt exercising ROFR to buy attractive high demand inventory and place it into the PPP, effectively moving that inventory from the legacy program into the PPP. That is being done and has been underway for some time.
> 
> Does this potentially limit the attractiveness of the legacy program in terms of owners being able to trade within the legacy system using their points? Potentially, yes--especially if Hyatt gets much more aggressive in buying up those prime weeks and moving them to PPP. But as Kal has pointed out, Hyatt does not appear to be on a mad buying spree, and so I remain optimistic that the legacy owners will continue to have ample opportunities to trade within the HRC system for years to come.
> 
> That said, my advice to HRC owners is to avoid "owner's updates" like the plague. The sales weasels will be conjuring up scare tactics like we haven't seen before, with doomsday stories of the demise of HRC and all of the attractions of Hyatt Pure Points, allowing a one-time conversion special of only $xx,xxx in order to make the switch before the HRC program collapses. Just ignore them, enjoy your HRC vacations, and pay attention to the TUG boards to get more realistic information.



I agree with this. I am highly skeptical of this report and strongly suspect it came from a salesperson.


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## Kal

lizap said:


> I agree with this. I am highly skeptical of this report and strongly suspect it came from a salesperson.


OMG, are you suggesting that a salesperson (a.k.a. huckster) would not be tellling the whole truth and nothing but the truth???  I'll believe it when I see it that PPP people have direct access to legacy points.


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## dahntahn

I protest.  I am NOT a sales weasel, simply reporting what friends told me.  I am a legacy owner of 3 weeks at BH and one at CP.  and I very much hope that Kal is right.


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## WalnutBaron

Don't worry, dahntahn. We know you're one of us. You had heard some of the sales weasel talk, but you're anything but a weasel. All is good.


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## lizap

dahntahn said:


> I protest.  I am NOT a sales weasel, simply reporting what friends told me.  I am a legacy owner of 3 weeks at BH and one at CP.  and I very much hope that Kal is right.



Sorry. Meant this info. came from a salesperson trying to sell PPP.  Knew you were not a salesperson.


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## taffy19

Read lizap’s posts in this thread and especially post #11, 15, 24, 29, 35, 39, 62 (sounds good) 65 (hopefully soon) and post #70, 74 and a few more.

Post #35 is what we were told too that they learned from Marriott’s mistakes and would make it better.  I assumed that it meant better for us  and post #39 would be an improvement.

They will have to make it attractive for us to deposit our weeks in the new pure points system for a year, if we would like to go to a new HRC resort that are planned already where only points are sold or have more flexibility what day to go and how many days to stay and the new pure point owners will be able to use our inventory.  There are two separate inventories (Marriott TUGgers call them buckets).

Marriott put all their owned weeks in the new trust inventory bucket and I believe that ILG will do the same to feed the new inventory bucket for the new trust points owners too but ILG owns II too so it may be different here because they own VSE too and everything may change again if ILG and Marriott decide to do business together.  Here is the thread in the Marriott Forum or it could be by affiliation too, I guess.  I have seen that term mentioned several times in our documents where we own.  All very complicated unless you are an attorney.


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