# Hyatt Scenario for a Prospective Newbie



## K2Quick (Apr 14, 2009)

I've spent a couple of weeks obsessively reading over these boards.  I feel a little like Newman in the episode of Seinfeld where he's trying to understand from Kramer why returning the 5 cent bottles to Michigan for a 10 cent refund doesn't make financial sense.  As some background, I'm just starting to explore this timeshare idea - I've never really considered it before.  I always just assumed they were rip-offs, but it looks like you can actually get some value out of timeshares if you play it right.

So here's how I landed on Hyatt as my top-of-mind company:  I started out thinking that Starwood would be the company I would go with, if any, because I love Westin and Sheraton hotels and we vacation about every other year to Maui and Kaui (in the same trip) and Westin has nice properties on both islands.  However, a good number of their properties don't allow for resales to participate in SVO and even the cheapest MF among them is pretty steep compared to other options.  Buying directly into either Westin Ka'anapli or Princeville doesn't make sense to me because resale prices are steep and the MFs are around $2k.

So then I turned my thoughts to Marriott.  Specifically, the Newport Coast Villas seemed like a place where I could see myself visiting at least every other year and the management fees seemed reasonable, but I'm turned off be the inflexible system where it's one week or nothing.  Marriott owners also seemed to express a lot of frustration over getting a week they wanted even with a full year's advance planning.

So then after reading the "Top 4" thread in the sticky, I considered Hyatt which I hadn't given any thought to previously.  Here's how I would see myself using Hyatt's system:

1) Buy into the system at the least expensive resort I can find for either 1880 or 2000 points.  I've read the arguments in favor of buying these levels over a 1300 or 1400 point week and they make complete sense to me.  Popular opinion seems to be that you should buy at a resort you could see yourself visiting every year in the week you would normally travel, but for me, that would probably be the High Sierra resort in the summer and those weeks are out of my price range from what I've been able to tell.

2) Use 580 points for a 1 Bed peak-season ski trip to Aspen for four nights or a 1 Bed mid-summer four night trip to Tahoe.  Either of those options pays for the annual MF easily.

3) Deposit the remaining 1300 points into II for exchange into a decent property on Maui or Kauai one year and into a Southern California property the next year.  I would hope to be able to get into Westin or Marriott properties in Hawaii and into either the Four Season Aviara or Marriott Newport Coast in So Cal.  Can anybody comment as to whether those are realistic expectations for trades assuming some flexibility in travel plans?

4) If Hyatt goes through with its plans for Maui and Orange County, CA, that would probably be the end of external trading for me as there would be enough options within the Hyatt system that I'd never even want to venture outside.

I'd appreciate if you'd poke all the holes you see in my assumptions.  If I'm going to take the plunge, I'd like to make the right decision.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Steve (Apr 14, 2009)

K2Quick said:


> 3) Deposit the remaining 1300 points into II for exchange into a decent property on Maui or Kauai one year and into a Southern California property the next year.  I would hope to be able to get into Westin or Marriott properties in Hawaii and into either the Four Season Aviara or Marriott Newport Coast in So Cal.  Can anybody comment as to whether those are realistic expectations for trades assuming some flexibility in travel plans?
> 
> 4) If Hyatt goes through with its plans for Maui and Orange County, CA, that would probably be the end of external trading for me as there would be enough options within the Hyatt system that I'd never even want to venture outside.



Hello, Neighbor!  

Welcome to TUG...and timesharing.  It's a fun way to vacation.

Based on your interests, I have a few thoughts:

Hyatts are nice and they trade well within II.  However, the places you want to exchange into are not easy trades...with the exception of Marriott's Newport Coast Villas.  That resort is easy to trade into from September through early June.  (However, it's extremely difficult for a non-Marriott owner to trade into during the peak summer months of July and August.) 

Marriott, Westin, and Four Seasons all have an internal exchange preference which makes it a challenge for owners of other resorts...even a high end resort like a Hyatt...to exchange into their locations during prime seasons.  Unless you are extremely flexible as to your dates and/or willing to make your reservations at the last minute (within 60 days of check-in during the "flexchange" period), you cannot count on consistent exchanges into the Marriotts or Westins in Hawaii or Four Seasons Aviara.  

If you really want to go to Kuai and Muai every couple of years and stay in a nice timeshare, then it makes sense to buy a week in one of the two systems with resorts on both of those islands:  Marriott or Westin.  I think you'll be MUCH happier in the long run.  For most people, I think the advice to "buy where you want to vacation" is probably the most important thing you can do to insure you'll be happy with your timeshare ownership.  

Finally, you can't count on Hyatt building in Orange County or Maui and that shouldn't even factor into your plans...especially with the economy the way it is right now.  "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush". 

Good luck researching the ideal timeshare for you.

Steve


----------



## mesamirage (Apr 16, 2009)

Nice to see you are spending the time upfront to do your homework... it will pay off now and later.

We own both Hyatt and Westin so I can give you some pointers to consider... there are lots of experts on these boards who might also be willing to chip in.

See replies to your points below.



K2Quick said:


> 1) Buy into the system at the least expensive resort I can find for either 1880 or 2000 points. I've read the arguments in favor of buying these levels over a 1300 or 1400 point week and they make complete sense to me. Popular opinion seems to be that you should buy at a resort you could see yourself visiting every year in the week you would normally travel, but for me, that would probably be the High Sierra resort in the summer and those weeks are out of my price range from what I've been able to tell.


 
First, I think buying at the resort you plan to stay at is a bit over rated.. we own at multiple Hyatt resorts but we have yet to use our actual deeded weeks usage. We stay at the resorts we own at... but it almost always seems to be a different week than we own. With Hyatt if you plan ahead you typically will get the reservation you desire.

We love High Sierra its one of our top resorts... and we have had no issues getting in there during the summer but we own week 8 (1880 points)

I do think that your first Hyatt week you purchase should be a min of a 1880 point week.. prices have dropped even more the last 18 months so there should be some solid deals out there to find. (FYI, I do believe in buying the 1300/1400 point weeks as a 2nd or 3rd week at rock bottom prices if you can find them... the MF cost will catch up with you at some point but it takes 6-10 years before you get behind on that equation.. but I would NEVER buy less than 1880 as my first week)




K2Quick said:


> 2) Use 580 points for a 1 Bed peak-season ski trip to Aspen for four nights or a 1 Bed mid-summer four night trip to Tahoe. Either of those options pays for the annual MF easily.


 
Its likely you just wont find these trips enough down the road, you will wish you had more points... but nothing wrong with doing these mid week 4 night stays we have done plenty of them... to me they only make sense if you have a Hyatt you like somewhat close to drive to... Sedona in 90 mins for us so we go up every year during Xmas season to see the Xmas lights up there.



K2Quick said:


> 3) Deposit the remaining 1300 points into II for exchange into a decent property on Maui or Kauai one year and into a Southern California property the next year. I would hope to be able to get into Westin or Marriott properties in Hawaii and into either the Four Season Aviara or Marriott Newport Coast in So Cal. Can anybody comment as to whether those are realistic expectations for trades assuming some flexibility in travel plans?


 
I actually do not like the value that we get vs MF costs for trading Hyatt points into interval, we prefer to use all of our Hyatt points at Hyatt. I strongly suggest you consider picking up a EOY 2 bedroom Sheraton Desert Oasis week (Scottsdale) to use as your interval trader... there are lots of post on this, but we end up trading the small side of the lock off for a 2 bedroom in Maui every year. It always pulls that trade when its avail in the II system, where Hyatt does not, plus if you look at it from a MF costs its ~$350 in Sheraton MFs for that traded week vs ~$600+ in MF costs to pull that trade using Hyatt points... which I think are better used to stay at Hyatts.



K2Quick said:


> 4) If Hyatt goes through with its plans for Maui and Orange County, CA, that would probably be the end of external trading for me as there would be enough options within the Hyatt system that I'd never even want to venture outside.
> 
> I'd appreciate if you'd poke all the holes you see in my assumptions. If I'm going to take the plunge, I'd like to make the right decision. Thanks in advance.


 
Good luck... hope that helps alittle.. and Happy Hunting!!

Mesa


----------



## ecwinch (Apr 16, 2009)

Look a little bit closer at Worldmark. It offers existing resorts in some of the locations you mention as being important to you.

Quality wise, it is just a step down from Marriott, Hyatt, and Starwood.

But their network is pretty strong in markets that are drive-to for you.

And it is the most flexible product on the market. Think of it as access to the postal van that comes back empty.


----------



## ecwinch (Apr 16, 2009)

mesamirage said:


> I do think that your first Hyatt week you purchase should be a min of a 1880 point week.. prices have dropped even more the last 18 months so there should be some solid deals out there to find. (FYI, I do believe in buying the 1300/1400 point weeks as a 2nd or 3rd week at rock bottom prices if you can find them... the MF cost will catch up with you at some point but it takes 6-10 years before you get behind on that equation.. but I would NEVER buy less than 1880 as my first week)



Can you elaborate on why 1880 is the optimal/minimum purchase?

Thank


----------



## Steve (Apr 16, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> Look a little bit closer at Worldmark. It offers existing resorts in some of the locations you mention as being important to you.
> 
> Quality wise, it is just a step down from Marriott, Hyatt, and Starwood.
> 
> ...



WorldMark is extremely flexible.  But it's a *BIG* step down in quality from Marriott, Hyatt, and Starwood.  Not a small one.  

Steve


----------



## mesamirage (Apr 19, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> Can you elaborate on why 1880 is the optimal/minimum purchase?
> 
> Thank


 
In brief, since there are multiple longer posts on just this topic, the yearly MFs are the same if you buy a 1300 point week or an 1880 point week or a 2200 point week.  So the main theory goes... that since you get 45% MORE points availible for use (1300 vs 1880) for the same $900 MF fee (MF depending on the resort) that you are much better off getting the higher point week.  However the higher point week will cost you more so you have to look at that over 3-5 years or longer to see when it pays off on just a per point cost of usage to go ahead and purchase the higher point week.

Example if 1300 point week cost $8000 and a 1880 point week cost $13000 at some point from just a $$$ perspective it makes more sense to purchase the higher week (not to mention you will have access to higher demand weeks with an 1880 vs 1300 point unit)

Does that make sense?  short answer but the nuts and bolts of why.


----------



## K2Quick (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks all for your replies.  You've made me consider a few other options.


----------



## ecwinch (Apr 19, 2009)

mesamirage said:


> In brief, since there are multiple longer posts on just this topic, the yearly MFs are the same if you buy a 1300 point week or an 1880 point week or a 2200 point week.  So the main theory goes... that since you get 45% MORE points availible for use (1300 vs 1880) for the same $900 MF fee (MF depending on the resort) that you are much better off getting the higher point week.  However the higher point week will cost you more so you have to look at that over 3-5 years or longer to see when it pays off on just a per point cost of usage to go ahead and purchase the higher point week.
> 
> Example if 1300 point week cost $8000 and a 1880 point week cost $13000 at some point from just a $$$ perspective it makes more sense to purchase the higher week (not to mention you will have access to higher demand weeks with an 1880 vs 1300 point unit)
> 
> Does that make sense?  short answer but the nuts and bolts of why.



It does. Thanks


----------



## MLC (Apr 19, 2009)

I own Hyatt, Westin, Marriott, Four Season, Royals and Hilton.  If you want to go to Hawaii  I wiould buy Marriott as my first timeshare.  Marriott gives you more options to trade if you decide not to go back.  As it was said before if you want to go to Hawaii you want to get confirmed early enough to get your air fare and trying to trade via II you might not get confirmed early enough.  As you know the MF is higher in Hawaii but it is worth it in my opinion.

You have to look where the Hyatts are located and you have to spend alot time learning the Hyatt system( in my opinion it is the hardest to learn).

My second timeshares would be Hilton for the HHonor points which can be done by buying resale(allowing hotel stays) and giving you the flexibility if you only want to stay 3 or 4 day in a timeshare or need hotel.

If you want to buy more timeshares than that then you are a timeshare junkie like me.


----------



## K2Quick (Apr 20, 2009)

MLC said:


> I own Hyatt, Westin, Marriott, Four Season, Royals and Hilton.  If you want to go to Hawaii  I wiould buy Marriott as my first timeshare.  Marriott gives you more options to trade if you decide not to go back.  As it was said before if you want to go to Hawaii you want to get confirmed early enough to get your air fare and trying to trade via II you might not get confirmed early enough.  As you know the MF is higher in Hawaii but it is worth it in my opinion.



I think I disagree that it makes sense for me to buy in Hawaii (I'm not saying it doesn't make sense for someone else).  A decent unit would set me back $20k up front plus annual maintenance fees of around $1700.  Assuming that $20k would cost me $1000 annually in interest, a week would cost me aroud $2700.  I can rent that week for less and still have flexibility.


----------



## alwysonvac (Apr 20, 2009)

K2Quick said:


> 3) Deposit the remaining 1300 points into II for exchange into a decent property on Maui or Kauai one year and into a Southern California property the next year.  I would hope to be able to get into Westin or Marriott properties in Hawaii and into either the Four Season Aviara or Marriott Newport Coast in So Cal.  Can anybody comment as to whether those are realistic expectations for trades assuming some flexibility in travel plans?



Realistic expectation for trades with II would depend on the following: 

(1) Does some flexibility mean you can travel anytime during the year? Can you travel offseason when the kids are in school (not limited to a school calendar)? 
(2) Do you only need a studio or one bedroom?
(3) Can you either plan your vacations in advance (a year out) and/or last minute (59 days or less)?

Welcome to TUG


----------



## K2Quick (Apr 20, 2009)

alwysonvac said:


> Realistic expectation for trades with II would depend on the following:
> 
> (1) Does some flexibility mean you can travel anytime during the year? Can you travel offseason when the kids are in school (not limited to a school calendar)?
> (2) Do you only need a studio or one bedroom?
> ...



For #1, we've got a ten-month-old so school schedule is not an issue at the moment and the local school system is on the year-round schedule, so travelling off-season would not only work but, in many cases, would be preferable.  Definite yes on #2 and #3.


----------



## alwysonvac (Apr 20, 2009)

Just noticed that you joined TUG.

As a TUG member, you have access to the Exchange Sightings board - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=3
You can search the sighting board to get an idea of the weeks generally available. 

For example, here are some sightings for the resorts you're interested in.
Marriott Newport Coast Sightings 
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58571&highlight=newport
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71869&highlight=newport
Four Seasons Aviara Sightings 
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81354&highlight=aviara
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66345&highlight=aviara
Westin Maui Sighting 
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92346&highlight=westin
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93580&highlight=westin
*NOTE: As an exchanger, don't expect availability at these resorts when the kids are out of school. Owners will be competing for those high demand weeks.*

Some things to know about the sighting board.
If a sighting is posted by an owner from the same timeshare system, the weeks shown may still be under owner preference. For example, if you see a sighting for Marriott Newport that was posted by a Marriott owner, the weeks posted may only be available to Marriott owners only. Marriott owners have a 24 day preference period. Four Seasons and Starwood owners generally have a three day preference period. During the preference period owners of the same timeshare system are given priority to trade back into their timeshare system. After the preference period ends, the remaining weeks are available to the general public.

Format for the TUG sightings board
Normally there are three numbers : 
The 1st number is the Number of bedrooms (normally 0 means studio) 
The 2nd number is the Private Sleeping capacity (defined as allowing two people per separate sleeping area with private access to bathroom) 
The 3rd number is the maximum number of people permitted to occupy the unit 

When sightings are copied & pasted, the info from Interval International repeats the first three numbers twice (see examples below) 
Aug 22 2008 - Aug 29 2008 1 4 4 144 
Aug 22 2008 - Aug 29 2008 2 6 8 268 
Aug 29 2008 - Sep 05 2008 0 2 4 024 
Nov 07 2008 - Nov 14 2008 3 6 8 368 
Nov 08 2008 - Nov 15 2008 2 6 6 266 
Nov 16 2008 - Nov 23 2008 3 8 10 3810


----------



## K2Quick (Apr 20, 2009)

alwysonvac said:


> Just noticed that you joined TUG.
> 
> As a TUG member, you have access to the Exchange Sightings board - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=3
> You can search the sighting board to get an idea of the weeks generally available.
> ...



Thanks for your detailed help.  I had looked at the sightings board and hadn't quite figured out how to read it, but I think I understand it now.  Based on a new reality check, I think I'm off the Hyatt idea and now on a sort of blended Marriott/Starwood kick.  I like the idea of picking up a SDO for trading after looking into it after the recommendation above.  People are pretty much giving them away, the management fees are low, and they seem to trade well into the entire Starwood network.  I also wouldn't mind picking up a Marriott Newport Coast to use as a place I'd actually visit instead of trading.  If I worked it right, I think I would get both as EOY units in alternating years.

What I haven't been able to find a good answer for, though, is how to work alternating years through II.  If I understand correctly, an SDO purchase would require an independent membership in II, but that all Marriott units come with automatic membership in II.  That means I'd have to pay up an annual II membership fee for the SDO unit even though I'd only be using it every other year.


----------



## ecwinch (Apr 20, 2009)

K2Quick said:


> Thanks for your detailed help.  I had looked at the sightings board and hadn't quite figured out how to read it, but I think I understand it now.  Based on a new reality check, I think I'm off the Hyatt idea and now on a sort of blended Marriott/Starwood kick.  I like the idea of picking up a SDO for trading after looking into it after the recommendation above.  People are pretty much giving them away, the management fees are low, and they seem to trade well into the entire Starwood network.  I also wouldn't mind picking up a Marriott Newport Coast to use as a place I'd actually visit instead of trading.  If I worked it right, I think I would get both as EOY units in alternating years.
> 
> What I haven't been able to find a good answer for, though, is how to work alternating years through II.  If I understand correctly, an SDO purchase would require an independent membership in II, but that all Marriott units come with automatic membership in II.  That means I'd have to pay up an annual II membership fee for the SDO unit even though I'd only be using it every other year.



I think you have flip-flopped the facts. With SDO II is automatic, with Marriott it is paid. If not, then II owes me a bunch of money.

Take a deeper dive on Starwood. In most cases, those cheap resale resorts on e-bay do not allow you staroptions points, which allow you the greatest access to the starwood resorts. Those options only come from buying developer points in one form or another. Pay particularly attention to the thread over on Starwood where weeks owners (non-staroptions pts) are not able to deposit the exact week that they reserved into II. SVO is maintaining they have a right to give a comparable week to II on their behalf. That fact alone turned me off to SVO.

But the SVO preference window with II can be a significant advantage.


----------



## alwysonvac (Apr 20, 2009)

Just in case you haven't read about Marriott Newport Coast owner availability 
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69151&highlight=newport
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54512&highlight=newport

NOTE: Multi-weeks Marriott owners can book earlier than single week owners (see Marriott's 13-month reservation policy in the thread)
Marriott Timeshare FAQs - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391


----------



## K2Quick (Apr 21, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> I think you have flip-flopped the facts. With SDO II is automatic, with Marriott it is paid. If not, then II owes me a bunch of money.
> 
> Take a deeper dive on Starwood. In most cases, those cheap resale resorts on e-bay do not allow you staroptions points, which allow you the greatest access to the starwood resorts. Those options only come from buying developer points in one form or another. Pay particularly attention to the thread over on Starwood where weeks owners (non-staroptions pts) are not able to deposit the exact week that they reserved into II. SVO is maintaining they have a right to give a comparable week to II on their behalf. That fact alone turned me off to SVO.
> 
> But the SVO preference window with II can be a significant advantage.



Unless I've misread the situation, SDO is a voluntary resort so II is not included when you buy resale.  Hence, the resale value stinks and you have to buy your own membership in II.  However, from what I can glean, when you buy your own membership at a voluntary resort, you can reserve any week you want and deposit that week with II rather than letting Starwood pick it for you.  I realize I won't get Staroptions points so I won't be able to reserve exactly what I want when I want it, but I would still apparently get preference in II for a few days over non-Starwood deposits.  And I can do that for next to no upfront cost and MFs that are half what they are at mandatory resorts.


----------



## mesamirage (Apr 21, 2009)

K2Quick said:


> Unless I've misread the situation, SDO is a voluntary resort so II is not included when you buy resale. Hence, the resale value stinks and you have to buy your own membership in II. However, from what I can glean, when you buy your own membership at a voluntary resort, you can reserve any week you want and deposit that week with II rather than letting Starwood pick it for you. I realize I won't get Staroptions points so I won't be able to reserve exactly what I want when I want it, but I would still apparently get preference in II for a few days over non-Starwood deposits. And I can do that for next to no upfront cost and MFs that are half what they are at mandatory resorts.


 
This is exactly true and we have booked (3) 2 bedroom units at the Westin in Maui in the last 30 months by trading ONLY a 1 bedroom from SDO (large side or small of the lockoff, it doesn't matter they pull the same II inventory). I also just booked an August 2 bedroom at the new Westin in Cancun (also only used a 1 bedroom).

As long as you are somewhat flexible on when you can go (based on inventory showing up on II) you will get VERY nice trades from a cheap SDO unit. We actually consider our SDO units the best units we own from a value perspective. We have had no issues booking high value SDO trade weeks with Starwood then going online to II and banking those exact weeks so that we get maximum trade value. 

That all being said... we like the Hyatt system the best! Great upscale resorts, lots of flexiblilty of number of days you stay, we just wish Hyatt had a few more resorts... but they keep coming online so we just keep hoping they will follow thru with Hawaii.


----------

