# Another Jet missing, Air Asia [Flight #8501]



## easyrider (Dec 27, 2014)

162 passengers and a jet went missing. Whats up with these jets these days ?

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/air-asia-flight-qz8501-reported-missing-dec-27-2014/

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/549052737506516993

Bill


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## easyrider (Dec 28, 2014)

It is interesting that this jet went missing near where flight MH370 went missing last March.



> AirAsia #QZ8501 has lost contact near where #MH370 was lost in March, ten years and a day after the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami.



Bill


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## VacationForever (Dec 28, 2014)

What strikes me is that this is another Malaysia-owned airline.  Hope they find the plane soon.


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## MULTIZ321 (Dec 30, 2014)

Missing AirAsia Flight: Possible Plane Debris Spotted in Java Sea - By Shashank Bengali and Ahmad Pathoni/ World/ Asia/ Los Angeles Times/ latimes.com

"Officials say yellow object, other debris found in Java Sea could be linked to missing AirAsia Flight 8501..."





Indonesian authorities investigate floating debris spotted in the Java Sea as possible objects from missing AirAsia flight QZ8501 on Dec. 30, 2014. (Bay Ismoyo / AFP/Getty Images)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Dec 30, 2014)

Debris Seen Off Indonesia Probably From AirAsia Jet: Official - by Fergus Jensen/ Jakarta/ Reuters.com

(Reuters) - "Red and white debris spotted off the coast of Indonesia's part of Borneo island is likely to be part an AirAsia plane carrying 162 people which is presumed to have crashed two days ago, an Indonesian transport official said on Tuesday.

Media quoted an air force official as saying a suspected body, luggage and a life vest were among the debris.

"As we approached, the body seemed bloated," said First Lieutenant Tri Wibowo, who was on board a Hercules during the search operation, was quoted by the Kompas.com website as saying..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 1, 2015)

One Airline Figured Out How to Make Sure Its Airplanes Never Disappear - by Chico Harlan/ Travel/ WashingtonPost.com

"First Air, a Canadian airliner, flies across some of the most remote and sparsely populated areas on the continent, with routes going as far north as Resolute Bay, in the Arctic Circle. Its planes are often beyond the reach of conventional radar. They are also nearly disappearance-proof.

That’s because of a six-pound tracking system, about the size of a hotel safe, installed in the planes’ electronics bays. When flights proceed normally, the system never snaps into action. But if something goes wrong — a sudden loss of altitude; an unexpected bank; engine vibrations — the system begins transmitting data to the ground, via satellite, every second. That six-pound box spits out reams of performance data, as well as the basics necessary for a search-and-rescue: coordinates, speed, and altitude..."


Richard


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## Ken555 (Jan 1, 2015)

MULTIZ321 said:


> One Airline Figured Out How to Make Sure Its Airplanes Never Disappear - by Chico Harlan/ Travel/ WashingtonPost.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good info. I wonder if other airlines would be able to use satellites because they are not always available to every part of the planet. They are typically in a low orbit with a limited range. This isn't to say that the majority of air travel wouldn't be covered - it probably would, including the region where the latest incident occurred - but it wouldn't necessary mean that every flight would be equally protected. Even so, if it's just $90 million for Delta to outfit their entire fleet I would consider that worth gold in marketing, and similar rationale with other airlines...not to mention that it simply makes sense. 

I wouldn't be too surprised if the public needs to encourage the airline industry to modernize, as this article implies. They are sort of stuck in the mud with technology and slow to change, regardless of what their marketing machine tells us.


Sent from my iPad


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## CarolF (Jan 1, 2015)

easyrider said:


> It is interesting that this jet went missing near where flight MH370 went missing last March.
> Bill



Not sure that I would call it "near".   It's the distance of New York to Florida.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 1, 2015)

What the AirAsia Wreckage Tells Us About the Plane's Fate - by Jeff Wise/ Technology/ Aviation/ PopularMechanics.com

"Two and a half days after AirAsia flight 8501 went missing en route from Surabaya to Singapore, search teams finally found the plane's remains on Wednesday, pulling bodies and debris from Indonesia's Karimata Strait between the islands of Belitung and Borneo. It will take weeks for a more thorough investigation, but here's what the wreckage tells us right now..."





Indonesian naval officers prepare the operational air navigation map during the investigation of missing AirAsia flight QZ8501 outside the crisis center of Juanda International Airport Surabaya on Dec
Getty Images

Richard


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## Passepartout (Jan 1, 2015)

Pure speculation here, but since the few bodies recovered have all been intact. The largest portions of the aircraft that have been found were a door and emergency slide. They've also found some intact luggage. It makes me wonder if the flight experienced a 'Miracle-on-the-Hudson' loss of engine power, and subsequent wet landing on the ocean. The door was opened, the slide deployed, water rushed in and the plane sank. Most passengers are still strapped in their seats on the ocean floor. Time will tell. The ocean depth in the area where it was found is within reach of experienced divers, so the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorders WILL be found and recovered, if not the entire aircraft.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Jan 1, 2015)

Hi Jim - check out the article in post #9 - it says that they think the plane broke up.


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## Passepartout (Jan 1, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Hi Jim - check out the article in post #9 - it says that they think the plane broke up.



Yeah, I read that paragraph, about the remains from a high speed aerial breakup or water contact looking like they'd 'been through a mulcher', yet the current flight's victims have (so far) been intact. I stick with my speculation. It remains to be seen.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 2, 2015)

Investigators Step Up Hunt for Crashed AirAsia Jet's Black Boxes  - by Fergus Jensen, Cindy Silvaina, and Charlotte Greenfield/from Reuters/ reuters.com

"International experts equipped with sophisticated acoustic detection devices joined search teams scouring the sea off Borneo on Friday in the hunt for the black box flight recorders from a crashed Indonesia AirAsia passenger jet.

Bad weather has hampered the search, keeping divers from looking for the wreck of the Airbus (AIR.PA) A320-200, which went down on Sunday en route from Indonesia's second-biggest city Surabaya to Singapore with 162 people on board.

The Indonesian-led search for the wreck of Flight QZ8501 is centered in the northern Java Sea, close to the Karimata Strait, where 10 bodies and pieces of the broken-up plane have been recovered. No survivors have been found.

"With the increasing amount of evidence and data, it's very likely we're getting closer to the fuselage of the AirAsia aircraft, based on what has been detected by sea vessels," Supriadi, operations director of the Indonesian search and rescue agency, told reporters..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 2, 2015)

AirAsia Searchers May Have Spotted Tail of Jet; 30 Bodies Recovered - By Shashank Bengali and Ahmad Pathoni/ World/ Asia/ Los Angeles Times/ latimes.com

"The AirAsia crash investigation gathered pace Friday as U.S. Navy teams pulled several bodies from the Java Sea and an Indonesian crew spotted what appeared to be the aircraft’s tail on the sea floor.

A Navy MH-60R Seahawk helicopter brought eight bodies to Borneo island while four other bodies remained on the Sampson, a San Diego-based Navy destroyer assisting in the recovery operation.

In all, 30 bodies out of 162 passengers and crew have been recovered, officials said; four have been publicly identified..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 3, 2015)

2 Large Objects Found in AirAsia Wreckage Hunt - By TATAN SYUFLANA , Associated Press/ apnewsarchive.com

"Indonesian officials were hopeful Saturday that they were honing in on the wreckage of AirAsia Flight 8501 after sonar equipment detected two large objects on the ocean floor, nearly a week after the plane went down in stormy weather.

Teams equipped with a remote-operated vehicle were battling high waves and strong currents as they tried to capture images of the suspected chunks of the plane for confirmation, said Henry Bambang Soelistyo, chief of the National Search and Rescue Agency.

An Indonesian navy ship detected the objects early Friday, and searchers later zoomed in with a Geological Survey vessel to take dimensions

One of the objects was measured at 9.4 meters by 4.8 meters (31 feet by 15 feet) and half a meter (20 inches) high. The other, found nearby, was 7.2 meters by half a meter (24 feet by 20 inches).

"I'm confident this is part of the AirAsia plane," Soelistyo said..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 3, 2015)

AirAsia Flight Has Parallels with 2009 Ocean Crash- by Lori Hinnant/ The Associated Press

"The jet dropped from the sky swiftly, without a mayday call. It was quickly swallowed up by the waves.

It took nearly two years to find the black boxes from Air France Flight 447, but the Rio de Janeiro to Paris flight that fell into the Atlantic Ocean in the early hours of June 1, 2009, could offer insight into what may have gone wrong on AirAsia's Flight 8501. Both flights killed everyone on board, both were flying into storms when they disappeared, and — in both cases — it seemed to the pilots of the Airbus that a climb was the way out of their predicament..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 4, 2015)

Flight 8501 Poses Question: Are Modern Jets Too Automated to Fly? - by Clive Irving/ Training Daze/ TheDailyBeast.com

"Too many computers and not enough “hands-on” flying mean most pilots would have fallen victim to the weather that brought down AirAsia 8501..."







Well written article.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 7, 2015)

Indonesia Search Chief Says AirAsia Jet Tail Now Found - From Reuters/ reuters.com

"Indonesian search and rescue teams hunting for the wreck of an AirAsia passenger jet have located the tail of the aircraft underwater, agency chief Fransiskus Bambang Soelistyo told reporters on Wednesday.

"We have found the tail that has been our main target today," said Soelistyo. "The tail part has been found and confirmed at a position in our second priority sector."

The tail is the section where the crucial black box voice and flight data recorders are located..."


Richard


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## uop1497 (Jan 7, 2015)

I hope we will know the reason soon. We flew with Air Asia between Thailand and Cambodia on our last trip .


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## tompalm (Jan 8, 2015)

> "Too many computers and not enough “hands-on” flying
> 
> 
> 
> Richard



There is some truth to that, but it take more than skill to fly commercial airliners at high altitude. Pilots overseas don't usually get the best training that pilots in the USA get. Most of the pilots that fly for third world countries got their experience flying small planes without any formal traing like Emery Riddle or what the US military provides.  Even the pilots for Air France put in the wrong correction for stall warning. The pilots on this flight requested higher altitude when they were very close to stall speed at that altitude.  That wasn't approved, but when flying around turbulence, you don't want to be at risk of entering a stall.  It will be interesting to see what they find from the flight recorder. Maybe it was just a lightning strike that blew things apart, but I don't think so.  In the end, the accident report will state pilot error.  Even if it was a lighting strike and they never had a chance, the accident report will state the pilots were at fault because they were to close to the storm. They always blame the pilots, but hands on and skill of flying the plane are seldom a factor. The one exception was the accident at SFO a couple years ago. That was just no hands on, or extremely complacent pilots.  

I think they will find bad weather caused them to lose control of this Air Asia fight. They probably never had the right training to recover from that or avoid it to begin with.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 8, 2015)

tompalm said:


> ....like Emery Riddle or what the US military provides. .....



Emery Riddle Aeronautical University was founded and flew out of Daytona Beach International Airport. It mostly likely the principal reason that airport still is in existence. I believe there is another campus also. It originally was a flight school. It is NOW a major player in almost anything involving air flight.

No, I did NOT take courses there - I flew in & out of that DB airport for college as MCO was an Air Force base (McCoy Air Force base). Daytona Beach was the MAJOR civilian airport between Georgia state line and Ft Lauderdale. Many military veterans' used their GI education funds at Emery Riddle.

If you don't know where the DB airport is - I am not surprised. You can still see the abandoned original terminal on the south side of RT 19/92 on the ocean side of the Daytona International Speedway. Every time I am in the area I looked for it - always expecting it to be gone.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 8, 2015)

Indonesia Says Pings Detected in Search for AirAsia Jet's Black Box - By Charlotte Greenfield and Kanupriya Kapoor/ www.reuters.com

"(Reuters) - Indonesia search and rescue teams hunting for the wreck of an AirAsia passenger jet detected pings in their efforts to find the black box recorders on Friday, 12 days after the plane went missing with 162 people on board, an official said.

Indonesia AirAsia Flight QZ8501 vanished from radar screens on Dec. 28, less than half way into a two-hour flight from Indonesia's second-biggest city of Surabaya to Singapore. There were no survivors.

The Airbus A320-200 carries the black box cockpit voice and flight data recorders near the tail section. Officials had warned, however, that they could have become separated from the tail.

Santoso Sayogo, an investigator at the National Transportation Safety Committee, said it appeared that the black box was no longer in the tail.

"We received an update from the field that the pinger locator already detected pings," he told Reuters.

"We have our fingers crossed it is the black box. Divers need to confirm. Unfortunately it seems it's off from the tail. But the divers need to confirm the position." ..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 9, 2015)

Signals Have Been Detected From the AirAsia Jet's Data Recorders - by Time Staff/ World/ Indonesia/ Time.com

"Indonesia says it has detected signals from the black-box recorders of downed AirAsia Flight QZ 8501 and is racing to reach them.

S.B. Supriyadi, director of operations for Indonesia’s National Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) in Pangkalan Bun — the Borneo town that has become the center for search operations — told the BBC, “A ship detected the pings. The divers are trying to reach it.”

A salvage operation for the tail section is also under way..."





 Indonesian navy divers, left, prepare to depart from the vessel KRI Banda Aceh to conduct operations to lift the tail of AirAsia Flight QZ 8501 in the Java Sea on Jan. 9, 2015 Adek Berry—AFP/Getty Images 


Richard


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## pedro47 (Jan 9, 2015)

I pray that find the black box asap before the pings stop working.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 10, 2015)

AirAsia Jet's Tail Lifted From Sea, But No Black Boxes Found - by Achmad Ibrahim/ Associated Press/ apnewsarchive.com

 "A tail section from the crashed AirAsia plane became the first major wreckage lifted off the seabed Saturday, but the all-important black boxes were not found inside two weeks after Flight 8501 went down, killing all 162 people on board.

The red metal chunk, with the words "AirAsia" clearly visible across it, was brought to the sea's surface using inflatable balloons. The cockpit voice and flight data recorders, located in the plane's rear, must have detached when the Airbus A320 plummeted into the sea Dec. 28, said Indonesian military commander Gen. Moeldoko. Their recovery is essential to finding out why it crashed.

However, Moeldoko, who like many Indonesians uses only one name, said pings believed to be coming from the black boxes were detected Saturday. The boxes' beacons emit signals for about 30 days until the batteries die, meaning divers have about two weeks left to find them.

The debris was brought up from a depth of about 30 meters (100 feet) and towed to a ship, where it was hoisted onto the deck. The vertical stabilizer was still largely intact, but the attached jagged fuselage was ripped open and tangled by a mess of wires.

"I am fully confident that the black boxes are still not far from the tail," Moeldoko said.

The discovery of the tail on the ocean floor earlier in the week was a major breakthrough in the slow-moving search, which has been hampered by seasonal rains, choppy seas and blinding silt from river runoff..."





Rescuers wave at an Indonesian Air Force helicopter near portion of AirAsia Flight 8501 after it was recovered from the sea floor on the deck of a rescue ship on the Java Sea, Saturday, Jan. 10, 2015. Investigators searching for the crashed plane's black boxes lifted the tail portion of the jet out of the Java Sea on Saturday, two weeks after it went down, killing all 162 people on board. (AP Photo/Prasetyo Utomo, Pool)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 11, 2015)

Focus on Finding AirAsia's Black Boxes Intensifies - by Achmad Ibrahim/ Associated Press/ International/ abcnews.com

 "A day after the tail of the crashed AirAsia plane was fished out of the Java Sea, the search for the missing black boxes intensified Sunday with more pings heard.

The signals were detected over an area spanning from 1 kilometer to 4 kilometers (1.6 miles to 2.4 miles) from the location of the jet's rear. Officials cautioned it was too soon to know if the sounds were coming from the cockpit voice and flight data recorders, which detached from the tail of when the aircraft plummeted into the sea Dec. 28, killing all 162 people on board.

"It was detected within a wide area, which needs to be combed by divers," said Nurcahyo Utomo, an investigator with Indonesia's National Commission for Transportation Safety. "Right now, I would not dare to say if it's from the black boxes."..."


Richard


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## pedro47 (Jan 11, 2015)

It has been reported that the black box has been located.


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## Passepartout (Jan 11, 2015)

To add to Pedro's post. The 'black' (they aren't really-they're high-visibility orange) boxes have been located, but have not been brought up due to being buried under other crash debris.. As soon as divers can clear the debris- as well as entrapped human remains- they'll be brought to the surface for experts to 'read' the information stored in them.

Hopefully a day or two to retrieve them and a short time after that to get good clues to the cause of the accident. 

Jim


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 11, 2015)

Divers Retrieve 1 of 2 Black Boxes From Crashed AirAsia Jet - by Achmad Ibrahim/ Associated Press/ Yahoo!News/ yahoo.com

PANGKALAN BUN, Indonesia (AP) — "Divers retrieved one of the black boxes Monday from the AirAsia plane that plummeted more than two weeks ago into the Java Sea, a major breakthrough in the slow-moving hunt to recover bodies and wreckage.

The flight data recorder was found under part of the plane's wing and brought to the surface early in the morning, said Henry Bambang Soelistyo, head of the national search and rescue agency..."







Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 12, 2015)

Divers Retrieve 2nd Black Box From AirAsia Crash - by Achmad Ibrahim/ Associated Press/ World/ Indonesia/ time.com

"The second black box was pinned under chunks of the plane's wing at a depth of 32 m

Divers have retrieved the crashed AirAsia plane’s second black box from the bottom of the Java Sea, giving investigators the essential tools they need to start piecing together what brought Flight 8501 down.

Transportation Ministry official Tonny Budiono says the trapped cockpit voice recorder was freed from beneath the wing’s heavy ruins early Tuesday from a depth of about 30 meters (100 feet), a day after the aircraft’s flight data recorder was recovered.

It will be flown to the capital, Jakarta, to be downloaded and analyzed with the other box. Since it records in a two-hour loop, all discussions between the captain and co-pilot during the 42-minute journey should be available..."





 Indonesian divers hold the flight data recorder of AirAsia QZ 8501 on board the navy vessel KRI Banda Aceh on Jan. 12, 2015 Adek Berry—AP 

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 14, 2015)

Divers Search for Bodies in Fuselage of Crashed AirAsia Jet - By Vorasit Satienlerk and Djohan Widjaja/ Reuters.com

"Indonesian navy divers searched for bodies on Thursday in the fuselage of an AirAsia airliner that crashed into the sea more than two weeks ago, killing all 162 people on board.

A military vessel found the fuselage on Wednesday, about 3 km (2 miles) from where the tail of the aircraft was hauled up from the bottom of the Java Sea last weekend...

...Divers retrieved the flight data and cockpit voice recorders earlier this week from the plane's sunken wreckage. Indonesian investigators have started examining the black box recorders and hope to find clues on why the plane crashed within days.

Only 50 bodies have been recovered and searchers hope more of the victims, most of whom were Indonesian, will be found in the fuselage, the main section of the plane that holds passengers and crew.

If bodies are found in the fuselage, divers will need to determine whether the entire wreckage can be lifted by using large balloons or if bodies need to be retrieved separately.

"We will wait for the calculation results from the divers on which one is faster. If it's faster to lift (bodies), we lift one by one," Supriyadi, operations coordinator for the National Search and Rescue Agency, told reporters in the town of Pangkalan Bun, the base for the search effort..."





The tail of AirAsia QZ8501 passenger plane is seen on the deck of the rescue ship Crest Onyx after it was lifted from the seabed, in the waters of Kumai, Pangkalan Bun, Central Kalimantan January 11,


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 16, 2015)

Ship Finds Crashed AirAsia Jet's Fuselage at Bottom of Java Sea - By Fergus Jensen and Kanupriya Kapoor/ Reuters.com

(Reuters) - "A military vessel on Wednesday located the fuselage of the AirAsia passenger jet that crashed more than two weeks ago off the coast of Indonesia, raising hopes that more bodies will be found.

The fuselage, the part of the plane that holds pilots and passengers, was discovered around 3 kilometers from where the tail of the aircraft was retrieved last weekend at the bottom of the Java Sea, Indonesian officials said. 

"A marker was placed on the engine. Beside the engine is the fuselage, the wing and a lot of debris," Ony Soeryo Wibowo, an investigator with the National Transportation Safety Committee, told Reuters...

...So far 50 bodies have been plucked from the Java Sea, with most brought to Surabaya for identification. Searchers believe more bodies will be found in the plane's fuselage.

Divers will check the wreckage for bodies on Thursday, said Fransiskus Bambang Soelistyo, head of the National Search and Rescue Agency..."






Head of the National Search and Rescue Agency Fransiskus Bambang Soelistyo is seen with an image believed to be of the fuselage of AirAsia Flight QZ8501, taken by an underwater ROV provided by the Singaporean Navy, during a news conference in Jakarta January 14, 2015.
Credit: Reuters/Pius Erlangga

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 16, 2015)

Additional Info:

Families Wait as Divers Try to Search AirAsia's QZ8501's Fuselage for Bodies - By Jethro Mullen and Rudy Madanir, CNN/ International/ cnn.com

...More than two weeks after the plane went down, searchers located the majority of Flight QZ8501's fuselage on Wednesday, Indonesia's search and rescue agency said.

The discovery, made using a remotely operated underwater vehicle, has raised the prospect that many of the bodies of the 162 people aboard the flight could soon be found..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 19, 2015)

*AirAsia Crash Investigators: No Sign So Far of Terrorism, Pilot Suicide*

AirAsia Crash Investigators: No Sign So Far of Terrorism, Pilot Suicide -  By Ben Otto And I Made Sentana/ World/ The Wall Street Journal/ wsj.com

"Investigators said they have found no indication so far that terrorism or pilot suicide played a role in the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501.

“So far, there’s no sign of terrorist activity,” Mardjono Siswosuwarno, the lead investigator in the probe, said Monday.

A team of investigators listening to the plane’s cockpit voice recorder has reported no indications of gunfire or threats, he said. The recorder was recovered along with a flight-data recorder from the crash site in the Java Sea last week. 

Nurcahyo Utomo, another investigator from Indonesia’s Transportation Safety Committee, said nothing heard on the audio recording so far suggested pilot suicide played a role in the crash.

He said he couldn’t disclose precisely what the pilots said in the recording, but their comments indicated that “basically, they were flying the plane.”

“So far we’ve managed to transcribe only half of [the cockpit voice recorder] because there are so many noises,” he said. “We hope to complete it in a week.”..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 21, 2015)

AirAsia Jet Climbed Too Fast, Iquiry Finds - by Joe Cochrane/ Asia Pacific/ International New York Times/ The New York Times.com

 "The AirAsia plane that crashed into the Java Sea last month had climbed at excessive speeds to an unusually high altitude before plunging and disappearing from radar, Indonesia’s top transportation official said Tuesday.

Radar data showed that the Airbus A320-200 had been climbing at about 6,000 feet a minute before it crashed, killing all 162 people aboard, Ignasius Jonan, the minister of transportation, told a parliamentary commission.

“It is not normal to climb like that; it’s very rare for commercial planes, which normally climb just 1,000 to 2,000 feet per minute,” he told lawmakers, The Associated Press reported. “It can only be done by a fighter jet.”..."

Richard


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## CarolF (Jan 21, 2015)

MULTIZ321 said:


> AirAsia Jet Climbed Too Fast, Iquiry Finds - by Joe Cochrane/ Asia Pacific/ International New York Times/ The New York Times.com
> 
> Radar data showed that the Airbus A320-200 had been climbing at about 6,000 feet a minute before it crashed, killing all 162 people aboard, Ignasius Jonan, the minister of transportation, told a parliamentary commission.
> 
> ...



I wonder what the Minister did actually say ~



> Earlier at a parliamentary hearing, he said radar data showed the Airbus A320-200 appeared at one point to be climbing at a rate of 6,000 feet [1,800 metres] a minute before the crash.
> 
> "I think it is rare even for a fighter jet to be able to climb 6,000 feet per minute," Mr Jonan said.
> 
> "For a commercial flight, climbing around 1,000 to 2,000 [feet] is maybe already considered extraordinary, because it is not meant to climb that fast."


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-...n-stalled-official-says/6029756?section=world


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## tompalm (Jan 21, 2015)

MULTIZ321 said:


> AirAsia Jet Climbed Too Fast, Iquiry Finds - by Joe Cochrane/ Asia Pacific/ International New York Times/ The New York Times.com
> 
> "The AirAsia plane that crashed into the Java Sea last month had climbed at excessive speeds to an unusually high altitude before plunging and disappearing from radar, Indonesia’s top transportation official said Tuesday.
> 
> ...



They were flying too close to bad weather, or heavy storms.  I saw a radar picture and it was all red, meaning severe weather in that area that caused the flight to encounter an extreme updraft.  If they did get 6000 higher, or even close to 38.000 feet the air was so thin that they could not maintain control because they probably lost a lot of airspeed during the updraft or climb and moving the controls had no effect. They might have entered a spin or rolled over and started falling out of the sky.  If they were IMC or in instrument conditions, recovery would be extremely difficult, especially if they did not have training on that.  I assume the aircraft came apart and parts fell everywhere.


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## CarolF (Jan 22, 2015)

tompalm said:


> If they were IMC or in instrument conditions, recovery would be extremely difficult, especially if they did not have training on that.  I assume the aircraft came apart and parts fell everywhere.



Irianto seems to have had a lot of experience.  He had been with AirAsia for six years and worked for another airline in Indonesia for 13 years before that, and was an Indonesian Air Force fighter pilot for a decade prior (fighter F-5E).

It will apparently take about a year before the investigation and report is completed.  Rumours say that the preliminary report will not be published.


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## Talent312 (Jan 22, 2015)

I wonder if they didn't encounter a microburst and overcorrected.

An airline pilot once told me that when he was caught in one, he went nose up - full power, at about a 20 deg. angle (typical take-off climb = 10-15). When it cleared, the plane shot up "like a bat out of hell" and he had to level out really quick.

Of course, this is just idle speculation.


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## CarolF (Jan 23, 2015)

Talent312 said:


> I wonder if they didn't encounter a microburst and overcorrected.



I don't know what that means.  Can you explain (in simple language ) please.


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## tompalm (Jan 23, 2015)

Good info on microburst here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microburst

Microburst are usually associated with landing during a thunderstorm.  At high altitude, updrafts and turbulent air are like microburst, but the air is going up and down.  It is just very turbulent and can cause an unusual attitude, or the nose going up excessively causing a significant airspeed reduction.   When the air is thin, the controls are not effective and even the best pilots will not have a chance of maintaining control.  If you overcorrect, that would be putting too much control adjustment in and causing the situation to get worse.  Possible that happened after the aircraft started falling to lower altitude, but the real cause was getting to close to bad weather.  The weather in Asia is a lot worse than we see in north america.  During 2009, a FedEx aircraft crashed at Narita during landing because of a microburst.  Those are pilots that fly all over the world and have lots of experience and didn't survive the severe weather.  I think they were flying a MD-80 or older aircraft that didn't have very good stability.  But, it was the bad weather that caused the accident and pilot error was listed as the cause of the accident in the mishap report or accident investigation.  The weather out there is a lot worse than we ever see here.


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## CarolF (Jan 24, 2015)

tompalm said:


> Good info on microburst here:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microburst
> 
> ...



I hadn't thought about it and hadn't recognised that other people have a different experience.  As teenagers, we cut our teeth scooting around SE Asia on the local dodgy aircraft, (despite our parents pleas not to go) and tried not to think about it too much.  These days, we don't think about it because it is our own local neighbourhood and we don't have a choice, there isn't another route.  Our well worn/everyday routes are the same routes you might consider remote and isolated.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 24, 2015)

AirAsia Flight QZ8501: Biid to Raise Fuselage Begins:

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30964705.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 24, 2015)

First Attempt to Lift AirAsia Fuselage Fails:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way.../first-attempt-to-lift-airasia-fuselage-fails


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 25, 2015)

Just a heads up:

Corrected the URL in post # 44


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 28, 2015)

Exclusive: AirAsia Probe Vets Possible Computer Glitch, Crew Response - By Siva Govindasamy and Tim Hepher/ Reuters.com

(Reuters) - "Investigators probing the crash of an AirAsia jetliner are examining maintenance records of a key part of its automated control systems, and how the pilots may have handled the plane if it failed, two people familiar with the matter said. 

An outage of the twin Flight Augmentation Computers (FAC) could not have directly caused the Dec. 28 crash, experts say, but without them the pilots would have had to rely on manual flying skills that are often stretched during a sudden airborne emergency.

"There appears to be some issue with the FAC," a person familiar with the investigation said, adding that more information was being sought from the manufacturer and airline...

...The pair of computers comprising the A320's FAC system is mainly responsible for controlling rudder movements and helping to keep the airplane stable, as well detecting windshear, or sudden changes in wind speed or direction.

Indonesian magazine Tempo reported a series of maintenance problems with the computerized rudder system of that particular aircraft in the days and months before the loss of Flight QZ8501.

Pictures of wreckage retrieved from the Java Sea provide little evidence that the crash was caused by problems with the rudder.

But, after partially analyzing data from the "black box" voice and flight data recorders, investigators have extended their interest to the FAC computers, the two people familiar with the probe said..."


Richard


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## pedro47 (Jan 28, 2015)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Exclusive: AirAsia Probe Vets Possible Computer Glitch, Crew Response - By Siva Govindasamy and Tim Hepher/ Reuters.com
> 
> (Reuters) - "Investigators probing the crash of an AirAsia jetliner are examining maintenance records of a key part of its automated control systems, and how the pilots may have handled the plane if it failed, two people familiar with the matter said.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this update.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 28, 2015)

Indonesia Military Pulls Out of Recovery Effort for Crashed AirAsia Jet - By Djohan Widjaya and Kanupriya Kapoor/ News Yahoo!/ Reuters/ news.yahoo.com

PANGKALAN BUN, Indonesia/JAKARTA (Reuters) - "Indonesia's military on Tuesday withdrew from search and recovery efforts a month after an AirAsia passenger jet crashed into the sea killing all 162 people on board, navy officials said...

...A multinational search and recovery operation has found 70 bodies in the Java Sea and had hoped to find more after locating the fuselage of the plane. But days of rough weather and poor underwater visibility hampered navy divers' efforts.

 "The operation has been ongoing for 30 days so the joint team has been pulled out," Rear Admiral Widodo, head of the navy's western fleet, told reporters in Pangkalan Bun, the base for the search effort...


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 28, 2015)

Hopes Fade of Finding More Air Asia Crash Victims - By Olivia Rondonuwu/ News Yahoo!/ news.yahoo.com

"Hopes faded Wednesday of finding 92 victims still missing from an AirAsia plane crash as Indonesian search and rescue authorities said the remaining bodies could have been swept away or lost on the seabed...

...So far just 70 bodies have been recovered. Authorities had hoped that the majority of the passengers and crew would be in the plane's main section, but after several days searching the fuselage, they said they said no more bodies could be located. 

"They could be on the seabed, or have been swept away by waves and currents," S.B. Supriyadi, a search and rescue agency official who has been coordinating the hunt, told AFP..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 30, 2015)

AirAsia Pilots May Have Turned Off Plane Computer System Before Crash, Report Claims - by Tania Branigan/ World/ TheGuardian.com

Bloomberg reports that pilots had shut down power to a flight protection system after trying to deal with a string of alerts from it

The pilots of the AirAsia flight which plunged into the Java sea last month had cut power to a critical computer system as they struggled to deal with the unfolding crisis, a report suggested on Friday...

...On Thursday, Indonesian investigators said that the less experienced co-pilot was flying the plane as stall warnings began to sound, while the captain was monitoring him and communicating air traffic control.

The Airbus A320-200 climbed so rapidly - probably to avoid the bad weather in the area - that it lost lift and began falling.

The new report from Bloomberg, which cites two unnamed sources “with knowledge of the investigation”, said that pilots had shut down power to a flight protection system after trying to deal with a string of alerts from it.

The separate computers, which serve as back-up to each other, control the plane’s rudder - preventing it from making turns that are too sharp - and prevent the aircraft from going too slowly. If they lose power or go wrong they will shut down.

But it is not clear why the crew should have turned them off, nor why the plane then went into a steep climb, as the pilots should still have been able to fly the plane manually..."





 Co-pilot of the ill-fated Malaysian air carrier AirAsia flight QZ8501, Remi Emmanuel Plesel, poses in front of an Air Asia aircraft at an unknown location. The French co-pilot was at the controls of the AirAsia plane before it crashed into the sea. Photograph: Ho/AFP/Getty Images 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Feb 7, 2015)

Here's One Way AirAsia Flight 8501 Was Suspiciously Similar to Air France 447 - by Barbara Peterson/ Flight/ Technology/ Crashes/ PopularMechanics.com

"It's still not clear what caused the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501, but the revelation that a co-pilot with far less experience than the captain was at the controls before the plane crashed into the Java Sea a month ago is once again bringing up parallels with the 2009 crash of Air France 447. Both aircraft plunged into the sea from a cruising altitude during severe storms with more junior crewmembers were at the helm. And in both cases stall warnings were heard on the cockpit voice recorders. Bloomberg also reports that pilots "cut power to a critical computer system that normally prevents planes from going out of control" shortly before the accident.

The crucial question that remains about QZ8501, however, is what caused the aircraft to stall in the first place. And some experts are cautioning that the two accidents differ in come critical details..."







Richard


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## Mr. Vker (Feb 7, 2015)

Air Asia only had two crew members, so when the Co-Pilot was at the controls, the pilot was out of the cockpit, I believe.

On Air France, there were still two in the cockpit-making bad decisions causing the plane to stall all of the way to the ocean.


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## MULTIZ321 (Feb 8, 2015)

2nd Attempt to Raise AirAsia's Fuselage Off Sea Floor Fails - From Tribune Wire Reports/ NationWorld/ chicagotribune.com

"The second attempt to lift the fuselage of the crashed AirAsia jetliner failed Sunday as the wreckage sank back to the ocean floor when a rope linking the lifting balloons broke.

Navy spokesman Manahan Simorangkir said strong current was the main obstacle. The rope had been fastened and linked to a ship, but broke again as the fuselage was lifted..."





Indonesian rescue personnel unload bags containing bodies recovered from the underwater wreckage of ill-fated AirAsia Flight QZ8501 in Pangkalan Bun, Indonesia, on Jan. 24. (Yudha Manx/AFP/Getty Images)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Dec 1, 2015)

*AirAsia Flight 8501 Crash Caused by System Malfunctions, Pilot Response*

AirAsia Flight 8501 Crash Caused by System Malfunctions, Pilot Response



http://www.wsj.com/articles/rudder-...buted-to-airasia-flight-8501-crash-1448956384


Richard


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