# Flu shot and others



## WinniWoman (Jan 19, 2014)

Anyone here over 50 that DOES NOT get the Flu shot? I never get it and people are always hassling me about it. I have not gotten the flu for most of my adult life. I might consider the shingles vaccine when I am older (I am 57), but I really try to say away from these. 

Ironically, I work in healthcare and am in and out of doctors offices every day! Some employees in the nearby hospital are forced to get it or made to wear a mask all day- even if they are office workers or work outside the hospital building!! I find this oppressive.....I am very conscious of hand washing, exercising and eating right, etc. to keep my immune system up.

Our son, who is 25 years old now, has never had a flu shot as well and not had the flu- thank goodness.

Just curious as to what others do, especially older people, as supposedly the flu can be deadly as you age....


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## LynnW (Jan 19, 2014)

I believe the total is now up to 8 or 10 people who have died of the flu this year in Alberta. The strange thing is they were all fairly young and healthy. I always get a flu shot.

Lynn


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## Paumavista (Jan 19, 2014)

*I'm borrowing from a famous line........*

(changed from a question....)

Dirty Harry......."so you're feelin' pretty lucky......"

Luck can.....and usually does run out eventually..........


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## travs2 (Jan 19, 2014)

*Flu shot and more*

Always get the flu shot.  Better safe than sorry.  We are so lucky to have easy access to vaccines.


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## silverfox82 (Jan 19, 2014)

My wife and I are 65, I get it every year, she never gets it, neither of us has gotten the flu in 20 years (knock on wood). We both got the shingles shot and I got the pneumonia vaccine this year, supposed to be a one time shot. All of the above were our MD's advise. I did a stint in Viet Nam and got shots for diseases, both going and returning, that I can't spell let alone remember and as a prof firefighter/emt I did the hep b thing also. All in all, I rarely get sick but I think it might be because I drink red wine quite often. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 19, 2014)

Primum non nocere is a Latin phrase that means "first, do no harm". You posted that you work in health care.


From the Johns Hopkins page:

_*Health care personnel have frequent contacts with high-risk patients in many* *settings, including the elevators and cafeteria. Personnel can serve as a vehicle to transmit influenza even when they don’t have symptoms. Up to 25 percent of health care personnel with the flu may have minimal or no symptoms yet can still transmit infection. *_


  As I still maintain my NP license and therefore have to put in my annual mandated hours to maintain my standing and prescriptive authority, _I get it as *I have a duty to protect others *_as well as myself. Getting the flu shot transcends one's own personal health protection. It extends to others.

  From Scientific American:  http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=health-care-workers-flu-shot


-


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## Egret1986 (Jan 19, 2014)

*I also never get it.*



mpumilia said:


> Anyone here over 50 that DOES NOT get the Flu shot? I never get it and people are always hassling me about it. I have not gotten the flu for most of my adult life. I might consider the shingles vaccine when I am older (I am 57), but I really try to say away from these.
> 
> Ironically, I work in healthcare and am in and out of doctors offices every day! Some employees in the nearby hospital are forced to get it or made to wear a mask all day- even if they are office workers or work outside the hospital building!! I find this oppressive.....I am very conscious of hand washing, exercising and eating right, etc. to keep my immune system up.
> 
> ...



I guess you could call them alternative health professionals.  I believe in their work.  I feel I have benefited from their services and guidance.  They shared their thoughts with me when I asked their opinions on the flu shot.   I don't get the flu based on their opinions and research.

My children do not get the shots nor get the flu.

My husband chooses to get the shot.  I don't think he gives it much thought.  They give them at work (voluntarily) and he just gets them.  They also give them at my job (voluntarily).

My mother is highly opposed to this choice that I have made and feels it's awful that I don't make my children get them, who are now 20.  I am 55.

My mother's immune system is destroyed.  She has to get a shot.   She really has to do everything she can to avoid getting the flu.  I support this and may one day find myself in a similar situation. 

It all depends on what information you're reading.


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## BamaBlue (Jan 19, 2014)

we were just talking about this today. I never took the flu shot until I was in my thirties. I took it five years in a row and got the flu three out of the five years...
I haven't taken it since then and I did get the flu last year. First time is 10 yrs or so.  
there have been 5 or 6 deaths this year in our area of north Alabama from the flu and everybody is talking about taking the flu shot. 
its just that I seem to have had better luck not taking it... just not sure what to do...


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## WinniWoman (Jan 19, 2014)

silverfox82 said:


> My wife and I are 65, I get it every year, she never gets it, neither of us has gotten the flu in 20 years (knock on wood). We both got the shingles shot and I got the pneumonia vaccine this year, supposed to be a one time shot. All of the above were our MD's advise. I did a stint in Viet Nam and got shots for diseases, both going and returning, that I can't spell let alone remember and as a prof firefighter/emt I did the hep b thing also. All in all, I rarely get sick but I think it might be because I drink red wine quite often. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.



I drink a lot of wine also. That's the ticket!


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## WinniWoman (Jan 19, 2014)

BamaBlue said:


> we were just talking about this today. I never took the flu shot until I was in my thirties. I took it five years in a row and got the flu three out of the five years...
> I haven't taken it since then and I did get the flu last year. First time is 10 yrs or so.
> there have been 5 or 6 deaths this year in our area of north Alabama from the flu and everybody is talking about taking the flu shot.
> its just that I seem to have had better luck not taking it... just not sure what to do...



I hear this a lot from coworkers. they get the shot and then get the flu! Some don't feel well after getting the shot.
One of my relatives is a nurse and she is actually against all vaccines!
Hard to know what to do.


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## bobpark56 (Jan 19, 2014)

*Posts here seem to be missing the point*

Anyone who has studied contagion theory or worked with mathematical models of contagion knows that the risk of epidemic goes up as the prevalence of preventive actions goes down.  Thus people who fail to get protective shots increase the likelihood and severity of epidemics. This holds even when the effectiveness of individual protective action is less than 100%.

Failure to take protective actions can thus be viewed as a form of selfishness, as it increases risk to others. What's more, the increased risk of epidemics when many people avoid protective measures also increases the risk to themselves and their families. Thus not just selfish, but also not smart.


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## oceanvps (Jan 19, 2014)

I think I've had flu-shots for at least the last 10 years, I don't recall getting the flu in that time, I also got the Pneumo shot last year,  I have a 4 year old - she is building my immune system!  

The only time she's had a flu shot was in 2009 when everyone freaked out about the h1n1 that year - they heavily recommended it for even babies and their caregivers


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## Passepartout (Jan 19, 2014)

It only takes getting flu once to make you a believer. Get a flu shot. It's a no -brainer.

Jim


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## puppymommo (Jan 19, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> It only takes getting flu once to make you a believer. Get a flu shot. It's a no -brainer.
> 
> Jim



I have to agree with Jim, here.  I did not get the flu shots and then one year I got the flu.  I was the sickest I've ever been in my life, 10 days of misery.  Now I get the shot every year.

I just don't tell my chiropractor.


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## MuranoJo (Jan 19, 2014)

Finally got a flu shot for the first time in my life last year.  (My doc was on my case about it for several years, and I finally caved.)  

Had heard they are only good ~9 mos., but can't remember the source.  I'm leaning towards getting the shingles shot, but heard you shouldn't take them with a flu shot.  Now I do know of several folks who did get shingles to some degree after getting that shot.


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## susieq (Jan 19, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> It only takes getting flu once to make you a believer. Get a flu shot. It's a no -brainer.
> 
> Jim




But the one time I got the flu shot, (a few years back), was the 1 and only time I got the flu!!  Two weeks of sheer misery!! Never again ~ no shots for me!!


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## Passepartout (Jan 19, 2014)

susieq said:


> But the one time I got the flu shot, (a few years back), was the 1 and only time I got the flu!!  Two weeks of sheer misery!! Never again ~ no shots for me!!



Believe what you will, but everything I have read from relevant sources on this say that if you get the flu, it is purely coincidental because you cannot get it from a killed vaccine. And that ifyou do contract a different strain than the one you are vaccinated for, it will be a less severe case.

Jim


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 19, 2014)

In my very long career as an RN/NP, I must have given thousands of flu shots and have heard all the stories. Most vaccine is from  *DEAD* virus strains. That is, the injectable vaccines. The nasal vaccine is made from attenuated or weakened strains.

Here is a concise explanation from the Mayo Clinic:

_*Can the vaccine give me the flu?


No. The flu vaccine can't give you the flu. But you might develop flu-like symptoms — despite getting a flu shot — for a variety of reasons, including: 
•Reaction to the vaccine. Some people experience muscle aches and fever for a day or two after receiving a flu shot. This may be a side effect of your body's production of protective antibodies. The nasal vaccine can cause runny nose, headache and sore throat. 
•The 2-week window. It takes about two weeks for the flu shot to take full effect. If you're exposed to the influenza virus shortly before or during that time period, you might catch the flu. 
•Mismatched flu viruses. In some years, the influenza viruses used for the vaccine don't match the viruses circulating during the flu season. If this occurs, your flu shot will be less effective, but may still offer some protection. 
•Other illnesses. Many other diseases, such as the common cold, also produce flu-like symptoms. So you may think you have the flu when you actually don't. *_


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 19, 2014)

Mr. Timeshare and I have been getting our annual flu shots for at least five or six years.  We are both over the age of 50 and have some health issues that make getting the vaccine a wise choice.

We also had the shingles vaccine a couple of years ago while we had insurance and it was covered 100%.  Good thing too, as it was a $450 billable to the insurance company.


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## pjrose (Jan 19, 2014)

*Yes I do*

For years I didn't; I turn into a four year old when confronted with the thought of a needle.  I got the flu (or some other horrid viruses) every so often.  Finally I started get the shot along with a lot of fuss of someone holding my arm so I wouldn't jerk, wrapping my legs around the chair legs so I wouldn't kick, singing to distract myself, putting ice on my arm, etc.  This year, for the first time (pats self on back) I simply sat down and got the shot and didn't make a fuss  
I also got some other kind of vaccine (pertussis?) per recommendation of DGS's doctors that all family members get it.  
Shingles is next.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 19, 2014)

pjrose said:


> For years I didn't; I turn into a four year old when confronted with the thought of a needle.  I got the flu (or some other horrid viruses) every so often.  Finally I started get the shot along with a lot of fuss of someone holding my arm, singing to distract myself, putting ice on my arm, etc.  This year, for the first time (pats self on back) I simply sat down and got the shot and didn't make a fuss
> I also got some other kind of vaccine (pertussis?) per recommendation of DGS's doctors that all family members get it.
> Shingles is next.



  Ask your provider if they will give you your next flu shot with a 25 gauge needle. Less painful as allowable per CDC protocol.
  For my needle phobic patients I would always give the little small, slappy/stingy routine on the deltoid prior to injecting. They never felt it.


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## pjrose (Jan 20, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Ask your provider if they will give you your next flu shot with a 25 gauge needle. Less painful as allowable per CDC protocol.
> For my needle phobic patients I would always give the little small, slappy/stingy routine on the deltoid prior to injecting. They never felt it.



Thank you   I do always ask for the smallest baby-sized needle.  It's not the pain, it's definitely in my head, kind of related to claustrophobia or being pinned down.  

I never had the slappy/stingy thing, but putting ice directly on my arm till my arm hurt did about the same thing.  I stopped that a few years ago when, after the shot, the nurse put the bandaid on about an inch higher than the red area from the ice --- I had been freezing the wrong area LOL.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 20, 2014)

pjrose said:


> Thank you   I do always ask for the smallest baby-sized needle.  It's not the pain, it's definitely in my head, kind of related to claustrophobia or being pinned down.
> 
> I never had the slappy/stingy thing, but putting ice directly on my arm till my arm hurt did about the same thing.  I stopped that a few years ago when, after the shot, the nurse put the bandaid on about an inch higher than the red area from the ice --- I had been freezing the wrong area LOL.



  I don't recommend ice unless there is a localized reaction.

 I  always recommended a warm face cloth (warm compresses) to the area or letting the warm shower water beat down on the deltoid and gently massaging the area (with soapy water) so to distribute the vaccine if there was enough discomfort. If not, leave it be.

Tylenol is good, too, for general discomfort if you are able to take it (according to directions).


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## pjrose (Jan 20, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> I don't recommend ice unless there is a localized reaction.
> 
> I  always recommended a warm face cloth (warm compresses) to the area or letting the warm shower water beat down on the deltoid and gently massaging the area (with soapy water) so to distribute the vaccine if there was enough discomfort. If not, leave it be.
> 
> Tylenol is good, too, for general discomfort if you are able to take it (according to directions).



Thank you


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## LynnW (Jan 20, 2014)

muranojo said:


> Finally got a flu shot for the first time in my life last year.  (My doc was on my case about it for several years, and I finally caved.)
> 
> Had heard they are only good ~9 mos., but can't remember the source.  I'm leaning towards getting the shingles shot, but heard you shouldn't take them with a flu shot.  Now I do know of several folks who did get shingles to some degree after getting that shot.



I had never had a shingles shot so when I got my flu shot in Oct they said to wait a week for the shingles shot which I did. No problems.

We have a friend who was supposed to come to our open house over the holidays and has had to cancel two years in a row because he had the flu. Asked if he had his flu shot and he said no because they make him sick.  

Lynn


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## MuranoJo (Jan 20, 2014)

Lynn, that's a good one!  Perhaps I also wasn't too rational with my fear of the vaccine.  My challenge was I hadn't had the flu in ages, so thought I had built up some sort of immunity with my diet/exercise.  This year, however, it is kinda eye-opening to see the # of people who've been infected or even died.


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## BevL (Jan 20, 2014)

My mom, who is in her 70s asked her doctor about the flu shot.  She didn't get one this year and was battling for quite a few weeks.

His explanation was it won't necessarily keep you from getting the flu but will lkely keep you from dying from the flu.

With hubby's chronic illness and suppressed immune system, we've been getting them for quite some years.  Touch wood, never had a full blown episode.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 20, 2014)

oceanvps said:


> I think I've had flu-shots for at least the last 10 years, I don't recall getting the flu in that time, I also got the Pneumo shot last year,  I have a 4 year old - she is building my immune system!
> 
> The only time she's had a flu shot was in 2009 when everyone freaked out about the h1n1 that year - they heavily recommended it for even babies and their caregivers



  This current flu season virus strain is hitting children particularly hard and has claimed 10 children already. What does her pediatrician say ?


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## csxjohn (Jan 20, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Believe what you will, but everything I have read from relevant sources on this say that if you get the flu, it is purely coincidental because you cannot get it from a killed vaccine. And that ifyou do contract a different strain than the one you are vaccinated for, it will be a less severe case.
> 
> Jim



Add to this that it takes about 2 weeks for the shot to work so if you wait until this late in the flu season you could very well come down with it before your shot has time to work.

This topic was discussed at length last year here on tug but I can't find it.  It quote sources talking about how long immunity lasts.

I remember writing that I hadn't gotten the shot in years and haven't had the flu in ages.  I attributed this to having had or been vaccinated against all known strains over the last 66 years.

I sail with my wife's cousin who is an MD and we were discussing this one evening and he pointed out the length of immunity as he knew it.  

I've been getting the shot since then.  And for me, why not, it's free?


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## laurac260 (Jan 20, 2014)

I don't know the answer.  I only know my own experiences.  That being, I've had exactly two flu shots my entire life.  One was back when they used a live virus, the other was the h1n1.

I've had the flu exactly once in my entire 47 years.  That was when I received aforementioned flu shot.

With the exception of the time I caved to peer pressure and got the h1n1, I am decidedly in the anti flu shot camp.

The pharmacist at our local Kroger (the one advertising the shot), is highly anti flu shot too.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 20, 2014)

Not only does immunity peak, plateau and eventually wane over the year, the predominate flu virus strains will change and/or mutate as well thus necessitating annual reformulation for new vaccine immunizations. This is why the annual flu shot is highly recommended.

The flu shot you got last year differs from the one you get this year (and next year) as they are developed to combat the different strains identified by the CDC & WHO as the ones most that will be most rampant. 

In one of my old Mega Pharma jobs, it was my job to check immunization statuses for all of our employees traveling overseas for MMR, polio, Hep A & B, TDaP, rabies, meningitis, etc. and treat accordingly. The annual flu shot was a must.

Read up on the different A, B, C  strains. Good stuff for "Microbe Hunters".  http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/

ETA: I understand the resistance of some about getting the shot, but I support the cost:benefit risk ratio for the protection of others.








Those buggahs are some smaht.


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## Paumavista (Jan 20, 2014)

*Infants*

As foster parents who sometimes take in infants we have always gotten the shot and required it of our other children.....to keep the risk down for our babies.

Infants can get a two shot flu series at six months old.   

You can look at this like any safety measure......you may never get the flu.....or you may never need a seatbelt (cause you're never in a car accident) - but the consequences of not being protected.........could be fatal. - - 

(and for those who want to argue about going off a bridge and needing to be free from the seatbelt so they can swim......well.....I have nothing to say to you).........


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## csxjohn (Jan 20, 2014)

I found the older thread

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199009&highlight=immunity


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 20, 2014)

From immunize.org

Some of my patients refuse influenza vaccination because they insist they "got the flu" after receiving the injectable vaccine in the past. What can I tell them? 

There are several reasons why this misconception persists: 
(1) Less than 1% of people who are vaccinated with the injectable vaccine develop flu-like symptoms, such as mild fever and muscle aches, after vaccination. These side effects are not the same as having influenza, but people confuse the symptoms.

 (2) Protective immunity doesn't develop until 1–2 weeks after vaccination. Some people who get vaccinated later in the season (December or later) may get influenza shortly afterward. These late vaccinees develop influenza because they were exposed to someone with the virus before they became immune. It is not the result of the vaccination.

 (3) To many people "the flu" is any illness with fever and cold symptoms. If they get any viral illness, they may blame it on the flu shot or think they got "the flu" despite being vaccinated. Influenza vaccine only protects against certain influenza viruses, not all viruses.

 (4) The influenza vaccine is not 100% effective, especially in older persons. For more information on this topic, go to:  www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectivenessqa.htm


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 20, 2014)

This is the best website for those who would like to learn more from a reliable source.

http://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_inf.asp


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## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Anyone here over 50 that DOES NOT get the Flu shot? I never get it and people are always hassling me about it. I have not gotten the flu for most of my adult life. I might consider the shingles vaccine when I am older (I am 57), but I really try to say away from these.
> 
> Ironically, I work in healthcare and am in and out of doctors offices every day! Some employees in the nearby hospital are forced to get it or made to wear a mask all day- even if they are office workers or work outside the hospital building!! I find this oppressive.....I am very conscious of hand washing, exercising and eating right, etc. to keep my immune system up.
> 
> ...



eleven people just in our state have already died this flu season and hospitals are making new visitation rules because of it.  What's a little prick in the arm compared to death?

Easy for me as employer has offered it for many years.  no reason not to.

I have had shingles several times, first at age 18.  I wouldn't wait for your first experience with it to get the vaccine.


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## Rose Pink (Jan 20, 2014)

I get the flu shot.  Used to be required when I worked in health care.  Now the doc makes sure I get it each year.  

 As others have said, even if you don't get sick, you can still be a vector spreading it to others who are more vulnerable and may not be able to get an immunization for one reason or another.  I'd feel horrid knowing I was the cause (or contributed to the cause) of making another person ill or even die.

 We all live on this planet together.  We need to take care of one another and that begins by taking care of ourselves.  Wash your hands.  Stay  home when you are sick.  Keep your children home when they are sick.  Get your vaccinations.


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## Pat H (Jan 20, 2014)

I have had the flu shot once and that was several years ago. I'm 66 and did get the shingles shot. I'm more afraid of shingles than the flu even though shingles doesn't usually kill. Some of my friends bug me to get it. If I had a compromised immune sytem, I would get it.


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## PStreet1 (Jan 20, 2014)

Another factor to consider:  the flu vacine is less effective for those over 65,''http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

Some of the sources I've seen say it may be only 25% effective for those over 65.  The CDC doesn't say how much less effective, simply that it is less effective.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 20, 2014)

PStreet1 said:


> Another factor to consider:  the flu vacine is less effective for those over 65,''http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm
> 
> Some of the sources I've seen say it may be only 25% effective for those over 65.  The CDC doesn't say how much less effective, simply that it is less effective.





 Further to that (from immunize.org)"
_Why is a higher dose influenza vaccine (Fluzone High-Dose) available for adults 65 and older? 

Aging decreases the body's ability to develop a good immune response after getting influenza vaccine, which places older people at greater risk of severe illness from influenza. A higher dose of antigen in the vaccine should give older people a better immune response and therefore provide better protection against influenza. Data from clinical trials comparing Fluzone to Fluzone High-Dose among people age 65 and older indicate that a stronger immune response (higher antibody levels) occurs after vaccination with Fluzone High-Dose. Whether the improved immune response leads to greater protection against influenza disease after vaccination is not yet known. 

CDC has stated no preference for using high-dose influenza vaccine or standard-dose influenza vaccine when vaccinating people age 65 and older. CDC stresses that vaccination is the first and most important step in protecting against influenza._


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## Chrisky (Jan 20, 2014)

I always get the flu shot and have never had the flu.

It never ceases to amaze me that when people read the advice sent out by the Mayo Clinic, other health professionals, and their own doctors about getting the flu shot, how beneficial it is, how it prevents the spread of the flu etc. they do not heed that advise.  But when they read anecdotal stories of 'getting the flu, even with the shot' etc., etc., these stories are taken as 'medical' advice and followed.

Talk to the people in Alberta who didn't get the shot, and now are lining up in the cold and desperate to get their flu shot because people have died.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 20, 2014)

Chrisky said:


> I always get the flu shot and have never had the flu.
> 
> It never ceases to amaze me that when people read the advice sent out by the Mayo Clinic, other health professionals, and their own doctors about getting the flu shot, how beneficial it is, how it prevents the spread of the flu etc. they do not heed that advise.  But when they read anecdotal stories of 'getting the flu, even with the shot' etc., etc., these stories are taken as 'medical' advice and followed.
> 
> Talk to the people in Alberta who didn't get the shot, and now are lining up in the cold and desperate to get their flu shot because people have died.



 Wow. So well stated and so very true. Thank you.


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## laurac260 (Jan 20, 2014)

*


Chrisky said:



			I always get the flu shot and have never had the flu.
		
Click to expand...

*
I never get the flu shot, and have never had the flu.  (Well, except for that one time I got the flu shot )

I've gotten all my immunizations, and have immunized my children, but I hold my breath each and every time.  I guess I'm just not that trusting of big Pharm.  


  There is no guarantee that getting the flu shot will keep you from getting the flu, and there is no guarantee that not getting the flu shot means you WILL get the flu.  To each his own I guess.


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## csxjohn (Jan 20, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> *
> 
> ... and there is no guarantee that not getting the flu shot means you WILL get the flu.  To each his own I guess.*


*

As others have pointed out, just because you don't get the flu doesn't mean you aren't carrying it to others.

They are cheap and easy and the responsible thing to do if you are in contact with other people especially the very old and the very young.*


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## Rose Pink (Jan 20, 2014)

Pat H said:


> I have had the flu shot once and that was several years ago. I'm 66 and did get the shingles shot. I'm more afraid of shingles than the flu even though shingles doesn't usually kill. Some of my friends bug me to get it. If I had a compromised immune sytem, I would get it.



That is the point I and others have been trying to make. There are people, who because of compromised immune systems or other factors, are unable to safely receive vaccines.  They depend on the rest of us healthy (or semi-healthy ) to get vaccinated so we don't spread illness to them.  We can be vectors even if we, ourselves, don't get sick.

For people who choose not get vaccinated, please, please, please, do not go out in public around other people. Stay out of the grocery store, stay away from schools, churches and anywhere else the public congregates.   Especially stay away from children, the elderly and those who are unable to be vaccinated--but would if they could. We don't need any more Typhoid Marys.


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## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

Pat H said:


> I have had the flu shot once and that was several years ago. I'm 66 and did get the shingles shot. I'm more afraid of shingles than the flu even though shingles doesn't usually kill. Some of my friends bug me to get it. If I had a compromised immune sytem, I would get it.



I see it quite differently.  I am healthy and would like to remain so.

While I am still not "afraid of" the flu, I am not keen on dying from it.


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## Phydeaux (Jan 20, 2014)

What is.the downside to geting a flu vaccination? Anyone that claims they got the flu from the flu shot are simply mistaken. You don't get pregnant from sitting on a boys bicycle seat either. Time to abandon these reckless myths!


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## laurac260 (Jan 20, 2014)

Phydeaux said:


> What is.the downside to geting a flu vaccination? Anyone that claims they got the flu from the flu shot are simply mistaken. You don't get pregnant from sitting on a boys bicycle seat either. Time to abandon these reckless myths!



Hmmm... The downside of injecting foreign stuff in our bodies?  I'm sure nothing.  Just like there is no harm in taking an endless supply of antibiotics either, right?  Except for the inconvenient fact that we now know that was a BAD idea.   I once had a doc tell me " no, penicillin didn't make your throat swell".  And now we know there folks who are allergic to certain myacins.  I once had a doc that told me, " no, there is no way that med effected your 6 year olds mental well being (in so many words).  A med that is now black boxed for suicidal tendencies.  I could give you a huge list of why I don't trust big Pharm.  but hey, that's just me, right?

I for one prefer to NOT be that trusting.  I know this is an isolated incident, but a dear friend of mine's sister wishes she could go back in time and NOT get her last flu shot.  That one being, the one that caused her paralysis.  

And the notion that not getting a flu shot means I could be a carrier of the flu is just fear mongering.


----------



## Phydeaux (Jan 20, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Hmmm... The downside of injecting foreign stuff in our bodies?  I'm sure nothing.  Just like there is no harm in taking an endless supply of antibiotics either, right?  Except for the inconvenient fact that we now know that was a BAD idea.   I once had a doc tell me " no, penicillin didn't make your throat swell".  And now we know there folks who are allergic to certain myacins.  I once had a doc that told me, " no, there is no way that med effected your 6 year olds mental well being (in so many words).  A med that is now black boxed for suicidal tendencies.  I could give you a huge list of why I don't trust big Pharm.  but hey, that's just me, right?
> 
> I for one prefer to NOT be that trusting.  I know this is an isolated incident, but a dear friend of mine's sister wishes she could go back in time and NOT get her last flu shot.  That one being, the one that caused her paralysis.
> 
> And the notion that not getting a flu shot means I could be a carrier of the flu is just fear mongering.



I think the fear mongering is covered...


----------



## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Hmmm... The downside of injecting foreign stuff in our bodies?  I'm sure nothing.  Just like there is no harm in taking an endless supply of antibiotics either, right?  Except for the inconvenient fact that we now know that was a BAD idea.   I once had a doc tell me " no, penicillin didn't make your throat swell".  And now we know there folks who are allergic to certain myacins.  ...



We've always known some people are allergic to some things.  I am allergic to penicillin since baby hood (I simply trust my mother who says it made me stop breathing), this is not New, it's not Suddenly Now We Know.  I am not that young.

If you have a doctor that doesn't know, blame that doctor, not Big Pharma.  They do their part in being forced to report the most frequent side effects.  That does not mean they have revealed All Possible Side Effects because some are exceptionally rare and no two bodies (and their current meds) are the same.

If you do have a side effect from any injection or medication, you need to report it.  the doctor should fill out a drug experience report and submit it.  failure to do so prevents the med mfgr from getting valuable feedback it didn't receive in trials.  

You are free to reject vaccinations as a whole, but I'm not allergic to eggs so will get flu shot as I have for many years with no side effects.  And whenever I need an antibiotic I will trust my doctor to identify the ones that have worked for me in the past and steer me away from those I reported a bad experience with.  

May good health be with you ...


----------



## IngridN (Jan 20, 2014)

Chrisky said:


> I always get the flu shot and have never had the flu.
> 
> It never ceases to amaze me that when people read the advice sent out by the Mayo Clinic, other health professionals, and their own doctors about getting the flu shot, how beneficial it is, how it prevents the spread of the flu etc. they do not heed that advise.  But when they read anecdotal stories of 'getting the flu, even with the shot' etc., etc., these stories are taken as 'medical' advice and followed....



Bingo! 

I have the shot each and every year as soon as it becomes available...ever since I had the flu 20 some odd years ago. Have never been sicker in my life, even when I had pnemonia, and, wouldn't wish the 'real flu' on anyone. People are dying in my area and surprisingly, it's the younger ones with better immune systems.

I am also anal about constantly washing my hands/using sanitizers so that I don't catch it or spread it around.

Ingrid


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## laurac260 (Jan 20, 2014)

Sorry.  Don't mean to be a pot stirrer here.  I guess I just feel as strongly about my choice as others feel about getting the flu shot.

I am fortunate and I know it.  Fortunate that I _knock on wood_ am almost never sick.  All my stats are "perfect", always have been.  Nothing in particular "runs in my family".  I come from a long line of strong, healthy german women, after all!

  My husband comes from a long line of healthy romanians.  His grandfather smoked cigars and drank whiskey and lived to almost 100.  Only the cigarette smokers in our families have suffered any ill fates.  If I ever get to the point where I need to be concerned about my or my family's immune system I will reconsider, but until then, we will keep doing what we are doing.  I suppose others will do the same, too, huh?


----------



## geekette (Jan 20, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Sorry.  Don't mean to be a pot stirrer here.  I guess I just feel as strongly about my choice as others feel about getting the flu shot.
> 
> I am fortunate and I know it.  Fortunate that I _knock on wood_ am almost never sick.  All my stats are "perfect", always have been.  Nothing in particular "runs in my family".  I come from a long line of strong, healthy german women, after all!
> 
> My husband comes from a long line of healthy romanians.  His grandfather smoked cigars and drank whiskey and lived to almost 100.  Only the cigarette smokers in our families have suffered any ill fates.  If I ever get to the point where I need to be concerned about my or my family's immune system I will reconsider, but until then, we will keep doing what we are doing.  I suppose others will do the same, too, huh?


Nothing to be sorry about, I am always interested in the viewpoints of others.

Certainly, do as you see fit for yourself.  It does sound like you have reasons to mistrust meds/doctors/pharma companies.


----------



## Chrisky (Jan 20, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Hmmm... The downside of injecting foreign stuff in our bodies?  I'm sure nothing.  Just like there is no harm in taking an endless supply of antibiotics either, right?  Except for the inconvenient fact that we now know that was a BAD idea.   I once had a doc tell me " no, penicillin didn't make your throat swell".  And now we know there folks who are allergic to certain myacins.  I once had a doc that told me, " no, there is no way that med effected your 6 year olds mental well being (in so many words).  A med that is now black boxed for suicidal tendencies.  I could give you a huge list of why I don't trust big Pharm.  but hey, that's just me, right?
> 
> I for one prefer to NOT be that trusting.  I know this is an isolated incident, but a dear friend of mine's sister wishes she could go back in time and NOT get her last flu shot.  That one being, the one that caused her paralysis.
> 
> And the notion that not getting a flu shot means I could be a carrier of the flu is just fear mongering.



This thread is about the flu shot, not penicillin or anything else.    As far as I know, no one has had their throat swell, or had suicidal tendancies or mental well being problems from the flu shot.  Also, there is a flu shot available for people that have egg allergies.  

But, that is your choice, to get a flu shot or not.  But all those people in the Province of Alberta that decided to not get the flu shot are now having to deal with a huge problem of severely ill people, and young people dying.


----------



## laurac260 (Jan 20, 2014)

Chrisky said:


> This thread is about the flu shot, not penicillin or anything else.    As far as I know, no one has had their throat swell, or had suicidal tendancies or mental well being problems from the flu shot.  Also, there is a flu shot available for people that have egg allergies.
> 
> But, that is your choice, to get a flu shot or not.  But all those people in the Province of Alberta that decided to not get the flu shot are now having to deal with a huge problem of severely ill people, and young people dying.



10 people have died.  10.  Not to make light of 10 people dying, but that is 10 out of a population of 3.65 MILLION.  

About 1000 people are sick.  What's that, .03%?  Sounds like a typical flu year to me.  That's pretty much what is being reported too, a typical flu season.  Nothing to see here, folks.


----------



## pjrose (Jan 20, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> 10 people have died.  10.  Not to make light of 10 people dying, but that is 10 out of a population of 3.65 MILLION.
> 
> About 1000 people are sick.  What's that, .03%?  Sounds like a typical flu year to me.  That's pretty much what is being reported too, a typical flu season.  Nothing to see here, folks.



Some of us prefer to get the shot, some don't.  We each have our own reasons.


----------



## laurac260 (Jan 20, 2014)

pjrose said:


> Some of us prefer to get the shot, some don't.  We each have our own reasons.



Agreed.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about this.  http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/...ash-after-taking-ibuprofen/?intcmp=latestnews


----------



## WinniWoman (Jan 20, 2014)

Well, seems there are more on here that have taken the flu shot than not. I was just curious as I am still on the fence about it.....have never had it.I have a physical scheduled next month and I am sure the doc will have something to say about it. Thanks for your input!


----------



## Beaglemom3 (Jan 20, 2014)

mpumilia said:


> Well, seems there are more on here that have taken the flu shot than not. I was just curious as I am still on the fence about it.....have never had it.I have a physical scheduled next month and I am sure the doc will have something to say about it. Thanks for your input!



  This will sound harsh, but there's no soft-pedaling this. Have to be blunt.

  You say that you are in health care. Why are you on the fence about this ? It's not about _you._ It's about those who you are in contact with in doctor's offices.

  Next month ? Seriously ? I just don't get it.

  Perhaps you did not see this post as you did not comment on it, so here it is again:

_*  From the Johns Hopkins page:

Health care personnel have frequent contacts with high-risk patients in many settings, including the elevators and cafeteria. Personnel can serve as a vehicle to transmit influenza even when they don’t have symptoms. Up to 25 percent of health care personnel with the flu may have minimal or no symptoms yet can still transmit infection. *_

  Edited to add:  From the Hopkins page re: who should get the flu shot (health care workers):

* Who does this apply to?

The mandatory influenza vaccination program applies to all individuals, employees, faculty, staff, residents and fellows, temporary workers, trainees, volunteers, students, vendors and voluntary medical staff, regardless of employer, who provide services to patients or work in patient care or clinical care areas, including acute and chronic care hospitals, outpatient facilities and clinics. Each JHM entity defines specific covered personnel in their policy depending on entity operations.*


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## laurac260 (Jan 21, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> This will sound harsh, but there's no soft-pedaling this. Have to be blunt.
> 
> You say that you are in health care. Why are you on the fence about this ? It's not about _you._ It's about those who you are in contact with in doctor's offices.
> 
> ...



All this is well and good, but what communicable disease does it NOT apply to?  Most contagious diseases that folks are walking around with have a latent period wherein the host has no symptoms.  Case in point, Sunday night, my adorable 7 year old boy was holding court with seven 13 year old girls, who had come over for a sleepover with big sis.  He was entertaining, and they were very gracious.  I found him snuggled up with one girl, showing her all the music videos he had made on his iPod.   He was in good spirits and looked and felt "just fine".  By bedtime, he mentioned he had a headache, "probably because my swim goggles were too tight on my head today."  And oh yea, he also had a bit of a tummy ache.  

Well, he woke up  Monday morning with a 100+ temp, threw up twice that day, and spent the entire day in bed in the fetal position.  (he's already on the mend today, fortunately).

  Had we known he was carrying a contagious virus, we wouldn't have let him come in so close a contact with all his big sis's friends.  I'm sure that's how he got the bug too, from a friend who also had no idea he was "sick". And those girls are all home with their family now.  Who knows how many of them are carrying the bug, even though they feel "just fine".  

What if, instead of going to a swim meet on Sunday, we had gone to the hospital instead, to visit my mom?  Me and my "perfectly healthy" son?  

You just never know, and there is no way to protect from everything.


----------



## Ironwood (Jan 21, 2014)

I'm retired, and have had the flu shot twice in the last dozen years....12 years ago and 5 years ago and got mildly sick following both shots.  I put it down to some sort of a mild reaction that lasted a few days.  Otherwise, I've not had the flu and not felt the desire to go get it annually.  My wife has not for similar reasons.  I asked my GP for the shingles shot as my late mother had a severe case in her last couple of years.  Cost was about $50.  He said I didn't need it.  I'm going to ask again when I next see him in a couple of months.


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## geekette (Jan 21, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> 10 people have died.  10.  Not to make light of 10 people dying, but that is 10 out of a population of 3.65 MILLION.
> 
> About 1000 people are sick.  What's that, .03%?  Sounds like a typical flu year to me.  That's pretty much what is being reported too, a typical flu season.  Nothing to see here, folks.



It's 10 dead in my state alone this season and we are far from the largest.


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## Timeshare Von (Jan 21, 2014)

I think people going to work when they are "under the weather" is far more troubling that whether or not folks get the flu vaccine.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 21, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> All this is well and good, but what communicable disease does it NOT apply to?  Most contagious diseases that folks are walking around with have a latent period wherein the host has no symptoms.  Case in point, Sunday night, my adorable 7 year old boy was holding court with seven 13 year old girls, who had come over for a sleepover with big sis.  He was entertaining, and they were very gracious.  I found him snuggled up with one girl, showing her all the music videos he had made on his iPod.   He was in good spirits and looked and felt "just fine".  By bedtime, he mentioned he had a headache, "probably because my swim goggles were too tight on my head today."  And oh yea, he also had a bit of a tummy ache.
> 
> Well, he woke up  Monday morning with a 100+ temp, threw up twice that day, and spent the entire day in bed in the fetal position.  (he's already on the mend today, fortunately).
> 
> ...




  Poor/weak analogy and missing the point.
 My post was to a person in health care who goes to & from medical offices daily where there are actively ill, fragile,   immunocompromised , pediatric/newborn, pregnant or elderly patients during an epidemic/pandemic.
We, medical personnel, have a duty to protect .  We are held to a different standard. 


-


----------



## persia (Jan 21, 2014)

I got the flu shot in '99, was sick as a dog that year but haven't had a shot or influenza since then.  

Back to the "health care worker."  Anyone who works for a clinic or hospital is a health care worker, even if they write computer software or work in a research lab miles from the hospital.  Less than half of the "health care workers" have contact with patients...


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## laurac260 (Jan 21, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Poor/weak analogy and missing the point.
> My post was to a person in health care who goes to & from medical offices daily where there are actively ill, fragile,   immunocompromised , pediatric/newborn, pregnant or elderly patients during an epidemic/pandemic.
> We, medical personnel, have a duty to protect .  We are held to a different standard.
> 
> ...


Let's talk this thru in the context of C-dif and why it is running rampant in hospitals, shall we?


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 21, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Let's talk this thru in the context of C-dif and why it is running rampant in hospitals, shall we?



  Let's see....... Stevens-Johnson Syndrome from Ibuprofen, _Mycins_, penicillin, suicide, GI viral-like illness, 6 y.o. mental health and now _C-Diff_ ? If there's a point, somewhere, it's all over the place. Cannot see it.


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## laurac260 (Jan 21, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Let's see....... Stevens-Johnson Syndrome from Ibuprofen, _Mycins_, penicillin, suicide, GI viral-like illness, 6 y.o. mental health and now _C-Diff_ ? If there's a point, somewhere, it's all over the place. Cannot see it.



Well, first of all I did not see in TUG RULES where all posts must specifically stay on topic, nor does each post one types in a thread have to be mutually inclusive.... Please do tell me where I should find that info.  

Secondly, you are sitting atop your horse of high, lambasting the OP for asking a question, of which you obviously have a strong opinion... One of which you are CERTAIN you must be correct, so, my question to you, since you are extremely concerned with the well being of each and every patient, is why, in your "humble"'opinion, is C-dif so rampant in hospitals now?  I'm sure you have an opinion on this.


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## bobpark56 (Jan 21, 2014)

*Get the shot*

Get the shot. It's not just about you...it's about protecting others as well.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 21, 2014)

Argument From Spurious Similarity.

I'm done here.

Everyone, stay well.


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## Phydeaux (Jan 21, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Let's see....... Stevens-Johnson Syndrome from Ibuprofen, _Mycins_, penicillin, suicide, GI viral-like illness, 6 y.o. mental health and now _C-Diff_ ? If there's a point, somewhere, it's all over the place. Cannot see it.



:


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## klpca (Jan 21, 2014)

*thanks for the reminder*

Got my shot today. Easy-peasy. 

I have been getting shots every year for awhile now, and no flu for years. Of course, I am just a very small sample size of one. I can't afford any sick days this time of year so I take all of the precautions that I can to stay healthy. I am on medication that suppresses my immune system so I feel like I am already fighting an uphill battle. My only real weapons are hand washing and the flu shot.


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## laurac260 (Jan 21, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Argument From Spurious Similarity.
> 
> I'm done here.
> 
> Everyone, stay well.




Ah, the grownup version of "if you don't play by my rules I'll take my ball and go home."

Too funny!


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## Passepartout (Jan 21, 2014)

If you choose not to be vaccinated, or to protect those with whom you interact, fine. Live in a cave, away from others who may have a compromised immune system. Please, please, stay away from schools, nursing homes, supermarkets, airplanes, theaters, and any other place an innocent person can get within 12 or so feet from you. You have the right to treat your own health as you wish. You do not have the right to be a 21st century Typhoid Mary.

Jim


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## elaine (Jan 21, 2014)

I have gotten the flu shot for 20 years. I have asthma that only acts up when I am sick--and then I get very sick. I got the flu in Nov., got the flu Dec 17 (1st time getting the flu), went to Dr. the 18th with 101.5 (after motrin) and was very sick, tested +  for flu even though not that many cases in my state then, got Tamiflu, got antibiotics for my chest--which had turned to bronchitis in 1 day, started lots of asthma meds, and did not die. I am happy! It took a week to feel normal, and 2 weeks to get rid of my cough. I assume my flu was lessened b/c I got Tamiflu very quickly, but the flu shot could have also assisted. 
I don't always believe what big pharma says and I have had weird reactions to various meds--and I didn't get the H1N1 the year it came out--
I was on the fence with my kids, but concerned about the prior swine flu vaccines. Then my kids got H1N1 before out county go the vaccine--so it was mute. The next year, we got the combo shot (after I saw that there were few adverse reactions), and we have all gotten the flu shots since.
The H1 versions are very frightening, as it can hit and kill someone healthy--my son had H1N1 3 years ago and, after appearing totally recovered for a few days, had a serious relapse with impaired breathing--very scary. H1N1 is not necessarily the "normal" progression of get sick, then get well and be OK.
So, for those who feel like "crap" and have a fever, if you get to the Dr ASAP (within 24 hrs of a fever is ideal) and have a + flu swab, I highly advise getting Tamiflu.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 22, 2014)

When, my nephew was 11 years old, very healthy and active boy. He was on the regional Little League whose team got up to #4 in the MD state finals. Very high performer in school and Boy Scouts.

On a Friday, he came home from school with a little fever. 

Got up on Saturday morning and was ackly. My sister call 24-Peds Med group, got an immediate appointment, and off they went in the van. He started having trouble breathing. My sister knew there was a county fire station up ahead and stopped there - as EMT are assigned to those fire stations. No EMT, but an ambulance with oxygen. Fireman driver, fireman with kid and oxygen, and sister following in the van to the nearest hospital ER. EMT caught up to ambulance enroute. As they came in an ambulance, they were rushed into ER whose doctor gave 2 nebulize treatments to the nephew. HE CRASH! STOP BREATHING! Doctor put a tube down his throat and NOW BIG PROBLEM as this hospital, is not staffed to handle THIS. Nephew (now being hand-bagged to breathe), sister, EMT and driver all thrown into ambulance for a 21 mile RUN with lights and sirens to the U of Maryland Pediatic Intensive Care Emergency Hospital in Baltimore -- faster than the helicopter option -- the operative word here is RUSHED.

The ambulance was met on the ramp by the head Pediatic Emergency Doctor, who open the door and out fell my sister. They know each other, he knows the family very well, and now the scary part starts --- 5 days of the ventilator, intensive care, head doctor or his wife (another MD who works in the same unit) or a senior nurse at this boy's bed 24/7. No one knew if he was going to LIVE. They knew they HAD to get him off the ventilator SOON or he would NEVER be able to breathe without it -- if the FLU didn't KILL him.

He spent almost 2 weeks in that unit - he lived. They got him off the ventilator. He missed another 2 weeks of school. He was traumatized. 

My sister learned a very important thing - GET THE FLU SHOT. Kids and people die from the flu. It could have gone either way for my nephew - but 7 years later at 18 yo, he is at college (Georgia Tech). He got his flu shot all by himself this Fall ... he knows better by personal experience. And at least, he could ...

What if he was your 11 year old child ....


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## Htoo0 (Jan 22, 2014)

I've had flu shots but every time I'm immediately (within 24 hours) 'under the weather' for 3-4 days. No, it's not the flu but apparently my body reacts badly to something in the shot. There is a lot of controversy over all the 'other things' added to the vaccine. Considering I get the flu an average of every 5 years and I'm sick for 7-14 days I have a hard time justifying being sick 3-4 days every year. Nor is getting a flu shot a sure bet to avoid the flu. Each year they 'guess' at what they think will be the most prevalent strains and even if they guess correctly it's no guarantee. CDCdotgov states effectiveness throughout the years runs about 60% while other sites seem to think that may be a bit optimistic. So say what you will, I'm just glad it's somewhat still a free country. BTW, I'm not anti-vaccine, just got my shingles shot and didn't have a reaction to it. Then again it's a one time shot although for my age group (60-69) the effectiveness is still only something like 64%.


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## laurac260 (Jan 22, 2014)

Look, the point I was trying to make with Beagle was, it's all well and good to push people to get their flu shot, but how about let's discuss good hygiene? 

 The C-diff I brought up for instance.  This is a virus that is running rampant in hospitals right now.  I know personally 3 people who have had surgeries in the past 2 years in areas near their colon.  All three walked out of the hospital with C-dif.  And with colostomy bags.   Research C-dif yourself.  So every time my mom goes to the hospital, she has to be quarantined.  Everyone entering the room is supposed to wash up, gown up, BEFORE they go in the room, not touch anything (including her if they can help it), then remove their gowns BEFORE they leave, and wash up.  My general observation is that it happens about 30% of the time.  Even the nurse told me I didn't HAVE to gown up.  

Beagle knows why this virus is so prevalent, and it all comes down to proper hygiene in the hospitals.  

So, my point is, while the CDC puts out their numbers every year about the flu, and does it's best to keep us informed, I think it would be taxpayer money well spent to media blitz WHY it is so important to wash your hands, to keep work surfaces clean, etc.  Having been in and out of the food service/hospitality business for years, I know I am supposed to wash my hands frequently, and DO.  I have never had a supervisor tell me, during any orientation or training, how important it is.    One of the questions on my sanitation certification test was about food service and communicable diseases.  Did you know it is a violation of the health code to allow a person with a communicable disease to be operating in a food service environment?  Ever been to restaurant and the server tells you she has a cold?   

Ever stood in a doctor's office, or with a nurse, or in a hospital, and watch the staff touching their nose, reaching for a kleenex to wipe their nose and then continuing on their business without washing their hands?   Ever see a doctor come in, wash their hands, put on gloves, then proceed to take a call on their pager/phone thingie?  Ever wonder how many places that gadget has been??     I sure have.  

Yes, once again I am rambling and "off topic"


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 22, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Look, the point I was trying to make with Beagle was, it's all well and good to push people to get their flu shot, but how about let's discuss good hygiene?
> 
> The C-diff I brought up for instance.  This is a virus that is running rampant in hospitals right now.  I know personally 3 people who have had surgeries in the past 2 years in areas near their colon.  All three walked out of the hospital with C-dif.  And with colostomy bags.   Research C-dif yourself.  So every time my mom goes to the hospital, she has to be quarantined.  Everyone entering the room is supposed to wash up, gown up, BEFORE they go in the room, not touch anything (including her if they can help it), then remove their gowns BEFORE they leave, and wash up.  My general observation is that it happens about 30% of the time.  Even the nurse told me I didn't HAVE to gown up.
> 
> ...




  Do not even suppose to speak for me. You haven't a clue and are incapable of staying on topic while spinning out of control here. I have 34 years of experience in infection control and communicable illness and not one time did I go to Fox News for information.

  Your post just confirms the importance of those in health care being vaccinated against influenza.

-


----------



## laurac260 (Jan 22, 2014)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Do not even suppose to speak for me. You haven't a clue and are incapable of staying on topic while spinning out of control here. I have 34 years of experience in infection control and communicable illness and not one time did I go to Fox News for information.
> 
> Your post just confirms the importance of those in health care being vaccinated against influenza.
> 
> -



Actually, my post confirms nothing of the sort. And, are you saying you DO NOT know that hand washing is the best line of defense?  

To coin a line from one of my favorite movies, "Why are you so obtuse?  Is it deliberate?"  


Funny, I thought you were done here!


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## dougp26364 (Jan 22, 2014)

Pen and teller explain it better than I can. Warning, strong language. 

http://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

Yes, I get the flu shot and every other recommend vaccination for my age group.


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## Phydeaux (Jan 22, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Fox News?  Huh?  Speaking of incapable of staying on topic?
> 
> To coin a line from one of my favorite movies, "Why are you so obtuse?  Is it deliberate?"
> 
> ...



I don't want to speak for Beaglemom, so I'll speak for myself. Perhaps our opinions overlap - maybe not. 

Since the predominance of medical information suggests we get a flu vaccination, the majority of people posting here agree and have made a strong case in support of the flu vaccination, you feel compelled in an attempt to bolster your contrary notions, and subsequently spin the topic. Yes, you spin the topic. 

Perhaps if you did a better job in staying on topic and provided some back up information of your own, people would listen a bit closer. Further, it doesn't help your case when you recoil and attack in defensiveness. 

Everyone, get a flu shot. And don't talk on your blasted cell phone while driving either! I digress...


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 22, 2014)

Phydeaux said:


> I don't want to speak for Beaglemom, so I'll speak for myself. Perhaps our opinions overlap - maybe not.
> 
> Since the predominance of medical information suggests we get a flu vaccination, the majority of people posting here agree and have made a strong case in support of the flu vaccination, you feel compelled in an attempt to bolster your contrary notions, and subsequently spin the topic. Yes, you spin the topic.
> 
> ...





  Phydeaux, we are on the same page.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 22, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> Actually, my post confirms nothing of the sort. And, are you saying you DO NOT know that hand washing is the best line of defense?
> 
> To coin a line from one of my favorite movies, "Why are you so obtuse?  Is it deliberate?"
> 
> ...



  I was done here until I was mentioned by name in relation to a misguided and frankly, ignorant, assumption.

 I cannot blame someone for being uneducated and misinformed on a subject, however, when they try to force their twisted and flawed opinion onto me, the gloves will come off and the record will be set straight.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 22, 2014)

Phydeaux said:


> ... the majority of people posting here agree and have made a strong case in support of the flu vaccination, ...



My sister still has her 3 boys - but just do a couple of internet searches regard "FLU children deaths" - my sister still 7 years later can not without re-living those weeks. And it was 7 years ago this week when that occurred with her family.

And if you don't think it would effect YOU (or my sister is not emotionally strong), guess again. My mother lost a 3 month baby to crib death on December 31, 1955 - she died in May 2000. Just months shy of her 80th birthday. We grew up in the grief of losing a sibling - the guilt, the fear, the anniversity, the dementia flashbacks, the depression, the graveyard visits (for years every Sunday after church of crying over the tombstone for HOURS) --- a Mother never forgave herself. Do you really think YOU could?


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## csxjohn (Jan 22, 2014)

Post deleted by me.


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## laurac260 (Jan 22, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> My sister still has her 3 boys - but just do a couple of internet searches regard "FLU children deaths" - my sister still 7 years later can not without re-living those weeks. And it was 7 years ago this week when that occurred with her family.
> 
> And if you don't think it would effect YOU (or my sister is not emotionally strong), guess again. My mother lost a 3 month baby to crib death on December 31, 1955 - she died in May 2000. Just months shy of her 80th birthday. We grew up in the grief of losing a sibling - the guilt, the fear, the anniversity, the dementia flashbacks, the depression, the graveyard visits (for years every Sunday after church of crying over the tombstone for HOURS) --- a Mother never forgives herself. Do you really think YOU could?



My heart goes out to your family for these tragedies.   The crib death comment is completely off topic, of course, but I don't have a problem with it, though others on here might.  We've ALL seen, and been party to, threads that go off topic from time to time.  F2F discussions go off topic ALL THE TIME after all, it's all good and lends to the discussion.


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## Beaglemom3 (Jan 22, 2014)

Laurac260,

   Don't PM ever again. I have this morning's PM from you in my mailbox and it will sit unopened & unread as it is unwelcomed.

   I've had rants from you in the past and will not read another one. 


   You need to stop escalating.


   Admins, please....................


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 22, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> My heart goes out to your family for these tragedies.   The crib death comment is completely off topic, of course, but I don't have a problem with it, though others on here might.  We've ALL seen, and been party to, threads that go off topic from time to time.  F2F discussions go off topic ALL THE TIME after all, it's all good and lends to the discussion.



Thank you for your compassion - but I know personally the long term effect a child's death has on their parents, surviving siblings and extended family - for almost their entire lives. And that was my point about my brother's passing (a perfectly normal and healthy child, then gone). 

This sister and I attended our 78 year old aunt's funeral 2 months ago. We were at the same cemetery and took flowers to place on our parents' graves. My sister was born 7 years after our brother's death - we spent 30+ minutes talking about all the years with weekly visits spent at the gravesite ... We never went to playgrounds - we went only to that graveyard.

Sorry you think a crib death of a child is NOT the same as a child who dies of the FLU  ... in one way, your are right. The FLU death is preventable - the crib death (currently) is not.


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## Phydeaux (Jan 22, 2014)

Error. Mods please delete, or explain how I can.


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## DeniseM (Jan 22, 2014)

Since some individuals are unable to debate a topic without making it personal and ugly, I'm closing this thread.


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