# Marriott Vacation Club: Return on Investment in 19 years?



## Boom-chaka (Feb 23, 2017)

...that assumes 10 resort travel days per year and a 5 year loan term at 19% APR. The best ROI is 7 years, assuming 20 resort travel days per year and a 5-year loan term at 5% APR.

That stinks.

I'm a new member here - my wife and I just returned from the MVC sales pitch at Grande Vista in Orlando.

A penny for your thoughts...

I'm wondering if this MVC is a total scam and/or the sales rep totally flubbed our presentation. (Fair disclosure: I sell $1M+ software packages to hospitals, so maybe I got put off by high-pressure sales tactics and didn't absorb the logic.)

Hoping I missed some critical information here?

Typically, the sales process is 1) establish need, 2) present value, 3) create immediacy to act.

We never actually established my need for this product...the sales rep suggested the typical family wants to do 10-15 vacation days per year "for the kids", then down the road could use the ownership as an "asset". We don't / can't / won't travel that much to a hotel resort. Ever. (I hope!) We showed this to her on paper and it was ignored and she skipped right to "value" of ownership vs 10-15 days per year renting hotel rooms, and then the immediacy of this moment ("act now and you'll secure this great thing").

The pitch raised a lot of red flags, which is why I'm here and doing the math:

she skipped an adequate needs assessment (do we even need or want this?)
"1:100 people will buy", then "30% will buy" came out later
lots of personal stories about how she - and her powerful & successful customers - use their points
mixed denominations of various costs (perpetual membership fees presented as monthly, one-time charges mentioned later, purchase price for the points as a lump sum, financing w/o volunteering rate, etc.)
points-per-stay varied based on location, season and availability
trying to logically connect MCPs (club points) with MRPs (rewards points for hotels, etc.)
using the word "asset" repeatedly re: real estate, esp. when it has limited access, variable value, and uncapped membership fees? Seriously?
pay for it with a high-interest Marriott credit card to "get the points"?! 19%...what?
high-pressure sales tactic of distracting from cost-over-time questions with unrelated premiums, like "2,000 bonus points if you buy now", etc. 
During a relentless sales pitch, there was no way to quickly examine all the fees to calculate the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) over 5, 10, 20 years (that's what's needed to determine ROI). So when the "closer" guy with the Rolex came in to do his work, he had no sense of our value of the product and just puked a bunch of numbers at us, which also revealed more hidden charges and fees.

Closer guy suggested financing the $26K, on a Marriott credit card "for the Marriott Rewards points"...
"Okay," I said, "what's the rate?"
"Depends on your score..."
"Assume an 800; what's the lowest rate?"
"19%"
"Whaaaaa?!?!"
"Well, you can pay it off immediately and still get the points! That's what I just did!"
"Okay, but not many people can do that..."
"But you get a free trip with 200K points, so it pays for itself!!"​
Amazing...I'm horrified to think that people get suckered into these decisions without all the required info! Enough about that bad sales presentation. Let's talk about the real cost of this program.

I made a spreadsheet for Total Cost of Ownership over 15 years with these assumptions:

2000 MVC points costs $26,500 + $1060 / yr + $700 processing fee
(very few people will pay cash for this sort of thing)
Marriott financing is 19% APR (sheesh!)
Accumulating credit card points has zero (zilch, nada, nothing) to do with spending money on a timeshare...using a Delta Skymiles card or AmEx Saphire is a better product for a lower cost of use
an average HELOC (home equity line of credit) right now is ~5%
financing is stupidly expensive for terms >5 years, esp. 10+ years, esp. esp. @ 19%
some people are actually carrying a balance for this on a high interest credit card!

My spreadsheets showed a pretty lame TCO over 15 years, even with a 5 yr loan term, with low interest financing:

2,000 points / year (pitched as "entry level"): "$26,500"
TCO = $57,844 (19% APR, e.g. high-interest credit card or mafia / loan-shark)
upfront of $9,450 / year for years 1-5

TCO = $46,606 (5%, e.g. HELOC or parents)
upfront of $7,200 / yr for years 1-5


"1,000 / 2,000 points" (1,500 / yr average): "$13,750"
15 yr TCO = $46,606 (19% APR)
upfront of $5,165 / yr for initial 5 years

15 yr TCO = $27,945 (5% APR)
upfront of $4,000 / yr for initial 5 years


The "break-even" point is when the accumulated cost of buying into the program becomes equal to the accumulated cost of renting hotel rooms at $250 / night (w/ projected 3% annual rate increase).

For people paying 19% APR for 5 years, plus fees, etc, they needed to pay into the program for 9 years in order to match the accumulated cost of 20 hotel rental days per year. These people would see a 19 year break even point to match the total cost of 10 hotel rental days per year.

At 5% APR, the break even point arrives earlier at 7 years of paying in to match total cost of 20 hotel rental days per year, and 15 years top match 10 hotel rental days per year.

That is pretty horrible return on investment. You'd need to commit to vacationing in a Marriott property >20 days / year to break even in <7 years. That's a lot of vacation time...more than I'd ever use, esp. at a resort property. Also consider the cost of traveling to all those vacation areas...20 days is 5-7 long vacations every year! Who even does that?!

It's tough to stomach the up-front financial hit, get tied into a commitment to deal with the fact that it's an uncertain, complex process to get the desired location, when you want it, for a reasonable price, paid for in "points" that by definition have variable value and fluctuating service fees.

IMO, this is a horrible investment for retired people...they cannot afford the upfront costs (and would use a credit card) or the airfare fees required to travel to a resort that often. My calculations showed ~$33K in *interest alone* for a $26K loan with a 10-year term at 19% APR.

In my experience, working people like me who have that sort of disposable income could keep the costs down with a HELOC, but they we don't have the capability to take a 3-7 day vacation every 8 weeks.

What did I miss here? Is this the most ridiculous scam ever?


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 23, 2017)

here we go again.


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## Boom-chaka (Feb 23, 2017)

Is there a sticky or archive on this subject?

Please, go ahead and humor me...it's actually a legitimate post, backed by a few hours of number-crunching and writing.

We're wondering if we just wasted 3 hours in a scam sales pitch?


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## rpw (Feb 23, 2017)

You did.


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## GregT (Feb 23, 2017)

There's another thread going on in parallel, started by Golden Vike.  I think it's worth spending some time reading it.

Best,

Greg


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## StevenTing (Feb 23, 2017)

The think is, you can't think of it like an investment.  There's no guarantee that you can sell your interest for what you paid.  I did my own analysis and used a predictive cost of increase for both maintenance fees along with a predictive value of my usage.  I came out to about 18 years for my break even point.  After year 18, that's where I start gaining.  Granted, I made all of my purchases directly from the developer.  I probably overpaid by $40k, which would have made my break even point 9 years.


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## rhonda (Feb 23, 2017)

Welcome! and Well done.  No, I don't think you missed anything of significance from the presentation and sales effort.  Yes, the pitch was intended to cause you to mentally 'check out' before hearing the retail pricing, exorbitant financing, and additional fees.  You were _supposed_ to fall in love with the room model, the dream of 'owning your vacations' and have set your hearts on your first vacation on the new points.  You were supposed to be more easily moved.  You were supposed to cave to the peer pressure of not disappointing your spouse.

Good on you for maintaining your brain.  Well done.

If you liked the product and 'the dream' - you might consider retail.  You might even consider an entirely different vacation product.  The ball is in your court and you didn't lose any money over it.  Again, well done.


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## catharsis (Feb 23, 2017)

OK

What you missed:

1. Marriott financing and Marriott Credit card are not the same, marriott financing will 'only' be in/around high single or low double digit rates of interest.  The credit card push was to pay for the items using the credit card to get more points.

2. Your assumption of $250 per night value while achievable is not guaranteed, it would be quite possible to achieve negative returns or never achieve 'breakeven'

What you *didn't *miss: 


using the word "asset" repeatedly re: real estate, esp. when it has limited access, variable value, and uncapped membership fees? Seriously?
The pitch raised a lot of red flags,

It's tough to stomach the up-front financial hit, get tied into a commitment to deal with the fact that it's an uncertain, complex process to get the desired location, when you want it, for a reasonable price, paid for in "points" that by definition have variable value and fluctuating service fees.
I suppose there actually is no sticky which says _"if you have just bought at a sales Pitch and are within your rescission period you should probably rescind as the salesperson was almost certainly lying to you when he stated or implied that you could not get the exact same deal again next week if you really wanted (and by the way, don't buy next week either)_" now that you mention it... I'm not sure why? 

There are always exceptions where someone gets a deal that works for their needs but basically you are very close to the bulllseye in your assessment.

Stick around here and read the threads and FAQs though to work out how value can be maximised from the program or how to access places like Grande Vista cheaply through the marriot resale market.


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## Hi I'm new here (Feb 23, 2017)

Boom-Chaka, your analysis nailed this destination product, great job.  

Find  the pinned post by Sue that details the cost to rent a TS for the night and by the week.  It is shocking to see how little you can rent for the 2000 points.


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## vacationtime1 (Feb 23, 2017)

Kudos to OP; your analysis is excellent. 

Although one doesn't need to read beyond your statement that "We never actually established my need for this product."

If you don't need it, why buy it?  Save yourself the $26K, $46K, $58K or whatever fuzzy math numbers you were given.

(Note: timeshares are great, but only if they work for you and your family)


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## wuv pooh (Feb 24, 2017)

The numbers are very fuzzy depending on what you use for your cost of funds, residual value, willingness to deal with private rental hassle, value you put on a Marriott point, etc.

What I believe is firmly established:

1. You will always do better buying the equivalent product resale, although some hybrid purchases of weeks points from Marriott may be close.
2. You will always do better than paying Marriott.com rates.  If that is your alternative it makes sense to consider in all cases.
3. The destination points are much less attractive than the old weeks program.  My estimate is the breakeven is about 2x as long for my use pattern.
4. This is in no way an investment.  It is prepaying for vacation time at hopefully a better rate. 
5. You are committing to the system.  Despite what they say there is a large value loss if you don't use your value at the resorts.
6. You will probably take more and better vacations and spend more money than if you paid cash.  It is not cheap to fly to Hawaii or Aruba, etc.

Personally we are very glad we got "scammed".  My break even on my first weeks was less than 10 years due to lock offs and II bonus weeks when II allowed you to trade up easily.  Break even on my points will be much longer, but I like the flexibility and the points put me to lifetime platinum with Marriott, so I got some other benefits that I value.


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## chris5 (Feb 24, 2017)

Hmmmm, why treat a luxury consumption item as an investment?

Treating a timeshare as an investment is a marketing ploy -- designed to trap you into thinking that the purchase has more advantages than prepaid vacations or prepaid travel excursions. I'm very content with my timeshare purchases, and I might have over paid for them too, but I think financial constructs to evaluate timeshare purchases are misguided in that the purchase is not an investment. Seriously, do we apply break even or ROI analysis to the purchase of a Subzero Refrigerator or about Aga stove?


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## amanda14 (Feb 25, 2017)

It's money I will never regain the investment on and we bought our first resale and the second from the developer. Which is backwards I know but it was right place/time etc., long and interesting story. 

Anyway, what that money did buy us was opportunities to go to places we would not have otherwise visited and when I do the numbers for a family of five with kitchens and laundry in the rooms we are still ahead of the game compared to if we had to do hotel rooms. It bothers me about the lost money but I knew what I was getting into. Still very happy we purchased 2x.


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## Trudyt623 (Feb 26, 2017)

A years of wonderful vacations and family memories are the largest investment in timeshare.  My husband is a numbers man also and we initially passed on Marriott Vacation club and Disney Vacation club just to revisit them a few years later and to see the pure joy in our children's faces caused us to purchase directly from Disney and resale for Marriott.


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## l0410z (Feb 26, 2017)

I worked for  IBM for 30 years, all in various sales roles.  I will tell you that the money MVCI is asking from the average customer is significantly more than in value than the money a hospital IT budget needs to pay you.

So image if you had 90 minutes to sell your software, the marketing cost to get you that lead was high and your measurement  was transactional.  Value  selling would be impossible.  This is the reason the MVCI sales force are given the ability to mislead, misrepresent and disregard your real needs.  Bridging the two worlds they are  trying to focus on the intangible benefits but are doing it in a dishonest way.  The company allows this by having in their contract don't believe anything told you before signing this. Example, 2000 points will get you nothing traveling when sochhol is out and next to nothing all the other times.  Unethical selling is the reason I will never invest in the stock but love the timeshare  product

How you like to  vacation now is different than when you have kids, your kids are in school, in college, when they are out of college and finally when you retire.  If you had a product that could adjust to this at a more affordable price (resale) might this be an intangiable benefit.

I purchased resale weeks at a timeframe and location that rents well ( 1.5 to 2 times my maintenance fee) and becomes my method to vacation outside the timeshare world. Might  this Be a tangible benefit.
I purchase a timeshare on EBay that cost me 1800, a maintamce fee of 550 every other year that I traded have of it for a two bedroom in Aruba. Could this be a tangible benefit?

Truth in posting...I purchased my timeshare only after having kids because it forced me to plan a vacation.  This is another untangiable benefit.  My kids have been to London, Madrid, Paris, Aruba, St Thomas and Orlando, Hawaii,  HHI a benefit they appreciate (kind of).  A big benefit was forcing me to plan vacation.  Being on commission with escalating bonuses above 100 percent of plan it was easy to justify not taking all my vacation time and back than, I could defer them.

Avoiding the purchase of a timeshare by  renting, using AirBnB or any number of options are all viable options.  My suggestion is for you to use Tug to continue to learn about timeshares.  Only than con you figure out the true TCO with all the tangiable and intangible benefits.  Only than can you figure out the value to you.

You are on the right path by recognizing FUD.

Lastly, I would tell you  to avoid buying a timeshare unless you are willing to work hard at being happy with it.  It does take work.


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## m61376 (Feb 26, 2017)

To reiterate what Greg said, definitely look at the other, very lengthy, thread. 
That said, while there are better ways to get into the system than buying points directly, whether by buying points on the resale market, buying a hybrid points and legacy week package from Marriott, or buying a week on the resale market, depending on your anticipated vacation needs, please consider that ownership isn't strictly a financial decision. It is also an investment in family time, and that part of the equation transcends dollars and cents. And, no, I'm not trying to sound like a salesperson here, just saying that I know we've taken more trips and spent more time with family, and had the opportunity to invite friends, etc., that we otherwise would not have done. So that's part of the intangibles that fall outside a spreadsheet analysis.

Take the time to read threads here and ask lots of questions, before deciding what kind or if any ownership is right for you. Welcome to Tug, btw


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## fuz74wuz (Feb 27, 2017)

We have owned 2 weeks at Cypress Harbour since 2004. We have never been there. We have traveled all over the country and the world using these weeks. Our maintenance fee was well worth it for us. We have since sold one week as we are travelling less, but there are plenty of beautiful places for us to go on the west coast.


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## suzannesimon (Feb 27, 2017)

Boom-chaka said:


> ...that assumes 10 resort travel days per year and a 5 year loan term at 19% APR. The best ROI is 7 years, assuming 20 resort travel days per year and a 5-year loan term at 5% APR.
> 
> That stinks.
> 
> ...




Your analysis is excellent.  I purchased 2 Marriott weeks from Marriott 8 years ago and paid cash.  I just updated my return.   I have recouped 60% of my purchase price +'maintenance fees by personal usage and renting them.  I consider fair market rent as the value for my usage and the actual rent when I rent to others minus the ad costs.  

Since that original purchase, however, I bought 7 resales.  The pay-back on those are between 2 and 7 years.  I don't finance them, however.  I have seen too many posts here on TUG from distraught owners who have to get out of their ownership and can't cover their purchase price and pay off their loans.  It's a sad state of affairs.  Timeshares are a luxury purchase, a prepaid vacation, but not an investment.  The ever-increasing maintenance fees are bad enough without having to pay for the financing on a quickly depreciating "asset".  You always need an exit plan which might be giving them away if your life situation changes.  Just my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.


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## MSH (Mar 12, 2017)

We used to put off vacations or take short trips.  Lots of excuses why we couldn't get away.  Around twelve years ago we bought a week at the Marriott Surf Club and soon after added another two weeks.   Paying for a vacation in advance means we are going away every year for three weeks.  Good financial investment - NO.  But it is an excellent investment in rest, relaxation, and getting away from the Chicago winters.  So for me it has been well worth the expense.


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## JT (Mar 13, 2017)

What is the best way to determine break even point?  We bought resale grande chateau (granted before housing disaster)  for the most part we have had many vacations in the last 8 years-we have been able to lock-off and trade our 2 bd into for the most part 2bd for 2 weeks per year.  One of the main reasons we did this is so that we don't eat out for 7 days and have more space on vacation for our 4 family members.    We may eat out once per day.  Costco is our best friend on vacation- not to mention not spending 100$ per day at a hotel bar.


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## bazzap (Mar 13, 2017)

We 


jtmounce said:


> What is the best way to determine break even point?  We bought resale grande chateau (granted before housing disaster)  for the most part we have had many vacations in the last 8 years-we have been able to lock-off and trade our 2 bd into for the most part 2bd for 2 weeks per year.  One of the main reasons we did this is so that we don't eat out for 7 days and have more space on vacation for our 4 family members.    We may eat out once per day.  Costco is our best friend on vacation- not to mention not spending 100$ per day at a hotel bar.


We have never even tried to determine break even point.
As others have said, we don't primarily view MVC in financial terms.
However, Grand Chateau has probably been our best investment in terms of value for money.


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## StevenTing (Mar 13, 2017)

jtmounce said:


> What is the best way to determine break even point?  We bought resale grande chateau (granted before housing disaster)  for the most part we have had many vacations in the last 8 years-we have been able to lock-off and trade our 2 bd into for the most part 2bd for 2 weeks per year.  One of the main reasons we did this is so that we don't eat out for 7 days and have more space on vacation for our 4 family members.    We may eat out once per day.  Costco is our best friend on vacation- not to mention not spending 100$ per day at a hotel bar.



This is very hard to calculate as each person will determine this differently.  The link below is to a spreadsheet that I use to track my overall expenses related to the time shares along with my perceived value of usage.  In order to determine my perceived value, I just use the cash rate when booking on Marriott.com.  I then project what I expect MF to grow on an annual basis based on historical growth rates.  I then apply a growth rate of perceived value as well.  I don't remember all of the details but it usually takes me about an hour or two each year to remember exactly how I created the spreadsheet.  My spreadsheet is overly complicated because I have an EOY week as well.

As you can see, I've spent over $120k between maintenance fees and paying developer prices for weeks over 12 years and have received about $102k in perceived value over that same time.

My worst usage of my weeks/points is to rent them out so I will probably not be renting out points in the future.  I receive my best value by actually using my weeks and points.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/piuk0hrm69lbr6p/Timeshare Cost Analysis-20170313-Shared.xlsx?dl=0


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## taffy19 (Mar 13, 2017)

Good for you to decide to use every point for your own vacations while your family is young.  Your Marriott "ownership of vacations" will probably stay in the family to continue their vacations with their children later.  I have read this on TUG so many times that Grand Parents love to spend quality time with their grand children in a beautiful resort on the beach or any other nice place or theme park.


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## Kevin Fun (Sep 19, 2017)

I own several weeks at Newport Coast in the prime season.  I bought these on the resale market for around $8K each.  MF are around 1200 per year.  I have been able to rent them for 1500-2300 per week.  I only buy ones I feel I can cover my MF with a little income for my investment (purchase Price & MF cost).  I am now buying a Westin week 52 since I know I can rent it for much more then the MF. Right now we will rarely use these since we like to travel to different places in the world but I am having fun learning and messing around with them, but have picked places I think I would like to travel too when I am older.  I hope to make a little money or limit my losses while I am getting my feet wet.  I too have sat with the developer and couldn't justify their math so I though I would start this way and see how it works out.


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## SMB1 (Sep 19, 2017)

Timeshare is one of the worst investments and one of the best purchases we've ever made.  We'll never sell for what we've paid.  And we've overpaid.  But we've bought and paid several times now, each time with eyes wide open.  We've taken more family trips, stayed in first class accommodations, learned to work the system (not only the TS, but hotels, rental cars, and airfare as well) than we ever would have planned and paid cash for.  We live in Massachusetts.  We went "down the Cape" in the summer and skied the north in the winter...weekend trips, stayed with friends, day trips, etc.  It is just what is done here.  Since purchasing 10 years ago, we've been to the beach in Daytona, Manhattan Beach, Oahu, Maui, Myrtle Beach, Hilton Head, Newport, and Cape Cod.  We've skied Breck, A Basin, Vail, Park City, NH, ME.  Been to Orlando multiple times, San Francisco, LA, Vegas, Atlantic City, Chicago, NYC and others.  Almost all of these trips would not have happened if we didn't "invest" in vacations.  My kids have traveled as much in their lives as we have in ours.  We just would never have booked hotels for weeks at a time, paid for flights, rented cars, laid out thousands of dollars multiple times per year had we not purchased.


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## WBP (Sep 19, 2017)

I wouldn't say it's a scam, but I would say that you are the WRONG person for the product. 

In my opinion, you'd do yourself a huge favor by not buying a Marriott timeshare, and by vacationing however you otherwise see fit. I think you're trying to apply a degree of logic to an illogical (current tense) product. For those of us who have owned Marriott timeshares for 25 or 30 years, we long ago got our money's worth out of the thing, had years of great vacations and vacation memories, own something that has little financial value, today, but some degree of qualitative value, and for us, personally, while I think that our maintenance fees are approaching insanity, we still have great vacations, thanks to Marriott timeshare ownership. And, I'll be the first to say that if it were not for our Marriott timeshare ownership, we would have never, otherwise, had some of the phenomenal vacations that we did, or have stayed in some of the phenomenal places that we did. 

I think Marriott stands just about no chance of making you/keeping you (as) a happy customer.




Boom-chaka said:


> ...that assumes 10 resort travel days per year and a 5 year loan term at 19% APR. The best ROI is 7 years, assuming 20 resort travel days per year and a 5-year loan term at 5% APR.
> 
> That stinks.
> 
> ...


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## GregT (Sep 20, 2017)

SMB1 said:


> Timeshare is one of the worst investments and one of the best purchases we've ever made.  We'll never sell for what we've paid.  And we've overpaid.  But we've bought and paid several times now, each time with eyes wide open.  We've taken more family trips, stayed in first class accommodations, learned to work the system (not only the TS, but hotels, rental cars, and airfare as well) than we ever would have planned and paid cash for.  We live in Massachusetts.  We went "down the Cape" in the summer and skied the north in the winter...weekend trips, stayed with friends, day trips, etc.  It is just what is done here.  Since purchasing 10 years ago, we've been to the beach in Daytona, Manhattan Beach, Oahu, Maui, Myrtle Beach, Hilton Head, Newport, and Cape Cod.  We've skied Breck, A Basin, Vail, Park City, NH, ME.  Been to Orlando multiple times, San Francisco, LA, Vegas, Atlantic City, Chicago, NYC and others.  Almost all of these trips would not have happened if we didn't "invest" in vacations.  My kids have traveled as much in their lives as we have in ours.  We just would never have booked hotels for weeks at a time, paid for flights, rented cars, laid out thousands of dollars multiple times per year had we not purchased.



Wow - great post - thanks for the comments, I feel the same way!

Best,

Greg


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## mjm1 (Sep 20, 2017)

SMB1 said:


> Timeshare is one of the worst investments and one of the best purchases we've ever made.  We'll never sell for what we've paid.  And we've overpaid.  But we've bought and paid several times now, each time with eyes wide open.  We've taken more family trips, stayed in first class accommodations, learned to work the system (not only the TS, but hotels, rental cars, and airfare as well) than we ever would have planned and paid cash for.  We live in Massachusetts.  We went "down the Cape" in the summer and skied the north in the winter...weekend trips, stayed with friends, day trips, etc.  It is just what is done here.  Since purchasing 10 years ago, we've been to the beach in Daytona, Manhattan Beach, Oahu, Maui, Myrtle Beach, Hilton Head, Newport, and Cape Cod.  We've skied Breck, A Basin, Vail, Park City, NH, ME.  Been to Orlando multiple times, San Francisco, LA, Vegas, Atlantic City, Chicago, NYC and others.  Almost all of these trips would not have happened if we didn't "invest" in vacations.  My kids have traveled as much in their lives as we have in ours.  We just would never have booked hotels for weeks at a time, paid for flights, rented cars, laid out thousands of dollars multiple times per year had we not purchased.



We agree with you. We bought into timesharing shortly after getting married 30+ years ago. We've made changes to our portfolio over the years as our family, travel and interests have changed and made a significant investment in our vacations. The experiences have been outstanding and we look forward to many more years of the same.

Best regards.

Mike


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## jme (Sep 20, 2017)

Boom-chaka said:


> I'm wondering if this MVC is a total scam and/or the sales rep totally flubbed our presentation.
> 
> *The "break-even" point is when* the accumulated cost of buying into the program becomes equal to the accumulated cost of renting hotel rooms at $250 / night (w/ projected 3% annual rate increase).
> 
> What did I miss here? Is this the most ridiculous scam ever?



Or,
the "break-even point" could be the first moment it all hits you like a ton of bricks, and you let out a long and satisfying sigh, and realize
that yes, you've had a decade or two of wonderful travel experiences, full of fantastic memories with your spouse and children (who have thanked you many times), and know that your family life would have never been that good without the enjoyment of growing together over time.

That moment came to me earlier on than for some, but it was a definitive moment in time when the rationalization of the large initial purchase price no longer required the rationalization, and instead turned to a simple smile.

The ongoing numerical calculations had been thrown out the window.

Since then it's become even better, and the priceless memories continue.


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## l0410z (Sep 20, 2017)

Bought 2 resale weeks in 1995.  Never thought of it as an investment and maybe I was too stupid to think about break even.  It was a way to spend time with the family.  We  vacationed (defined as a week or more) as much outside of the timeshare system as within.  We have gone on as many if not more mini vacations (defined as  3 days or less).  The kids always went, they stopped going and they started again.  As adults, one son enjoys traveling, one kid  kind of enjoys it and both love it when I pay.  

I think we sometimes give too much credit to timeshares as a means to and end. It is the dynamics of the family that creates the memories.   I have a brother with three daughters who only vacationed in Disney when they could afford to go.  My nieces all married with kids still enjoy vacationing there. I have offered countless times to get a timeshare but they will only stay on Disney property because that is what they did as a kid.  My sister cares for an ill husband and vacations infrequently.  Her kids believe they have wonderful memories.   I do not have one friend who owns a timeshare.  They have as many family pictures and videos to share as I do.  There are  over 120M families in the US and only 8.5M timeshare intervals.  Hard to believe 110M families are deprived of family vacation memories.

Love owning a timeshare, hate it... ROI, sunk cost... you created those invaluable memories and I would bet you donuts to dollars that if you never purchased a timeshare you would still have vacationed/traveled and figured out how to create those invaluable memories.


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## Panina (Sep 20, 2017)

I've watched my sister pay thousands for each trip she takes being in hotel rooms.  Even though she and her husband have loved experiencing timesharing in the past with me , her husbands mentality has been its not a good investment even when I showed him resale.  True, in their eyes, not in mine.  

I've been an owner of timesharing since I'm 24, now 57, 33 years of going to wonderful places, in great accommodations, multiple times a year for less then one vacation costs my sister.  

I never looked at it as an investment and I never looked a my house as an investment either.  I Looked at both as having a better quality of life.   If I looked at my timesharing as an investment, when I liquidate, you can say a loss as I give them away but looking back each one saved me thousands in traveling expenses.  If I did the math, I am ahead.


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## kds4 (Sep 20, 2017)

Growing up in the 70's/80's, my parents owned a fixed-week at an RCI affiliated resort in Destin, Florida. I have many memories of the family trip each year between Christmas and New Year's. Not sure that is why I chose to become an owner myself with Marriott. However, I'm sure the experiences of my childhood with those timeshare vacations played a role in my decision to accept the 'cold-call' offer to go to Orlando for a 'preview' trip with my own family back in 2008. Have I spent less to vacation this way in the years since than if I had just used cash? I have no idea. I do know the best timeshare ownership related decision I made was to join TUG. The education I have received here has helped me save money in what I have spent making timeshare purchases as well as getting as much 'value' as possible from what I have purchased through leveraging the exchange system. TUG has provided me with measurable financial savings from my timeshare expenditures. For that, I thank all of the more knowledgeable owners who have shared their experiences and insights.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 20, 2017)

I am not a Marriott Owner (Hilton) but have been reading this thread. Like most, I got smacked initially by purchasing from the developer but now I am going back in to buy another resale timeshare.

Why? Because you cannot get the space and resort amenities that you get with a timeshare. For example we stayed for 14 days at a 2 Bdrm oceanfront timeshare in Hawaii that would rent for $5000 a week for the cost of my maintenance fee. On principle, I would never rent anything for $5000 a week, so if we did not have a timeshare, we would likely end up with my family crammed in a crummy hotel room with a view of the parking lot, spending a fortune on restaurants.

I could rent VRBO/AirBnB but that contains risks too (we've had good and bad experiences).  Many costs such as housekeeping, security deposits and fees can double the price for short stays. Many VRBO's don't have the resort amenities that timeshare resorts offer.  IHMO...I don't want to waste my vacation in a VRBO that did not live up to the photos, poor housekeeping, doesn't have a pool, bar, restaurants, exercise room, walk to the action location etc.  Timeshare systems offer consistency.

Although timeshares have a terrible reputation because of the horrible sales process, the accommodations and staff at the major hotel branded timeshare resorts are top notch.

My timeshare will be worth very little when I sell - but neither will my BMW, boat and designer apparel that I enjoy.  However I paid less than $12k resale so what's the risk for 10 - 20 years of nice vacations? If you sweat over the maintenance fees and the cost of resale, you should not be buying a timeshare...in fact you should not be taking vacations. This cost is peanuts compared to the cost of purchasing a vacation property and the costs and headaches of maintenance and property taxes. Save your money for retirement, home etc. until you have sufficient discretionary income. This is not for everyone.


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## jme (Sep 20, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I am not a Marriott Owner (Hilton) but have been reading this thread. Like most, I got smacked initially by purchasing from the developer but now I am going back in to buy another resale timeshare.
> 
> Why? Because you cannot get the space and resort amenities that you get with a timeshare. For example we stayed for 14 days at a 2 Bdrm oceanfront timeshare in Hawaii that would rent for $5000 a week for the cost of my maintenance fee. On principle, I would never rent anything for $5000 a week, so if we did not have a timeshare, we would likely end up with my family crammed in a crummy hotel room with a view of the parking lot, spending a fortune on restaurants.
> 
> ...




Ditto on every count.   You get it. 

Our stories would no doubt be parallel, as both systems are top notch.

Especially like your analogy (which I've used in several old posts) about vehicle depreciation. Funny how very few people complain about that or equate it to owning a timeshare. A vehicle's accelerator is nothing more than a device that takes the value more and more to zero. At the end of the road, both entities have little inherent value (although some timeshares have MORE).


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## Tokapeba (Sep 20, 2017)

We have stayed at many great places. Most we would never have thought we could afford. We purchased a Worldmark after loosing a Marriott Mountainside to Marriott with right of first refusal. If you are considering a purchase I would recommend you do something similar. Worldmark has many great places to stay mostly in the west, but it trades amazingly with II.

We have used it to go to Yellowstone, SF Union Square X3, Sonoma X3, Anaheim, Las Vegas, Lake Tahoe X10, skiing and in summer one time for the 4th, a couple places in Arizona. Bonus time is amazing. We have also traded it with II. Trading we have stayed Marriott Ko olina, The Grand Lodge at Breckenridge, The Grand Lodge at Peak 7 at Breckenridge X3,

We just bought 2 Marriott Mountainside resale because we like skiing. I think they will keep their value and having a 2 bedroom on the slope in Park City for less than $200 a night is amazing!!!

Andy


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 20, 2017)

jme said:


> Especially like your analogy (which I've used in several old posts) about vehicle depreciation. Funny how very few people complain about that or equate it to owning a timeshare. A vehicle's accelerator is nothing more than a device that takes the value more and more to zero. At the end of the road, both entities have little inherent value (although some timeshares have MORE).



Thanks. We are considering Marriott and that's why I am trying to learn as much as possible. Tug is an amazing resource...

A few more thoughts:

1) For the ROI calculation, I believe the OP used $250 a night hotel room as a comparison. When is the last time you stayed in a 2 bedroom hotel room or VRBO and paid only $250 per night including resort fee, cleaning, AirBnB fees and taxes?  $250 perhaps would work in some locations such as Orlando or Vegas, but certainly not Hawaii or other expensive locales during prime season.  YMMV.

2) Instead of a car perhaps a better analogy would be the purchase of a boat or RV.  They are vacation items purchased with disposable income, but how many people run an ROI calculation before buying a boat?


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## Saintsfanfl (Sep 21, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> They are vacation items purchased with disposable income, but how many people run an ROI calculation before buying a boat?



Maybe not ROI but people certainly should do other types of analysis and consideration. A boat purchase is not unlike a timeshare purchase except it is easier to unload. It is one of the very top regretful purchases out there.


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 21, 2017)

I won't get into how easy it is to turn a few quality Marriott TSs into a solid investment like I did because most don't have the inclination to do what I do but  a quality Marriott TS bought resale CAN provide an excellent ROI even if you don't own and rent multiple weeks for profit.

In my opinion for those vacationers that want/need a 2BDRM annual view unit platinum high demand beach front Marriott there are a number of resorts that provide an excellent ROI, just none that are bought from Marriott. 

My quick example is if you purchase a Maui Ocean Club original OF 2 BDRM you would pay approx $20k for an annual unit on the resale market.   To rent this unit or any comparably sized or quality prime time week you'd be paying a min $4k if not more. That is currently $1800 above maintenance so you have an ROI of 11 years or so.   At the end of those 10 years I'm fairly confident that unit will still be worth $14-$18k so to me that is an excellent ROI.   You could do the same for similar units in Aruba, Kauai, Myrtle Beach, the big 3 on HHI, and Newport Coast. I know this because I've done so for many of these resorts for 16+ years 

From my experience this only works for Marriott as their brand and quality create units in high demand that rent for well above MFs and that maintain their resale value pretty well, far more than other brands and certainly more than any independent resort.

So bottom line IMHO you can have a prime Marriott 2BDRM resale TS be a good investment that provides a solid ROI, but nothing that is bought through Marriott will or some of the lesser demand or higher supply Marriotts even if bought in the resale market


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 21, 2017)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Maybe not ROI but people certainly should do other types of analysis and consideration. A boat purchase is not unlike a timeshare purchase except it is easier to unload. It is one of the very top regretful purchases out there.



Perhaps people don't realize the cost of boating upfront because purchasing the dock space and maintenance (or storage for that matter) are separate transactions, whereas with a timeshare purchase costs are disclosed by the management company upfront and the fees are mandatory.  People can opt to defer maintenance on their boat. Used yachts are not easy to sell because many people with the means to buy a yacht want the latest and greatest and boating is not for everyone.


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## frank808 (Sep 21, 2017)

MOXJO7282 said:


> From my experience this only works for Marriott as their brand and quality create units in high demand that rent for well above MFs and that maintain their resale value pretty well, far more than other brands and certainly more than any independent resorts.



There is another system that has similar if not better returns than marriott rentals. If you bought resale 6 years ago you are looking at about 40% profit if you were to sell now.  Plus if you were to rent it out these past 6 years you would have made about 10-12% roi easily.

Think the happiest place on earth.


Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 22, 2017)

frank808 said:


> There is another system that has similar if not better returns than marriott rentals. If you bought resale 6 years ago you are looking at about 40% profit if you were to sell now.  Plus if you were to rent it out these past 6 years you would have made about 10-12% roi easily.
> 
> Think the happiest place on earth.
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk



It seems like renting is not the lowest hanging fruit especially when the stock market and home rentals are faring so well. In addition, if the economy falters, vacation rentals are the first place where people cut expenses.  However if renting offsets the cost of your vacations, and you enjoy the effort of renting out timeshares, then all the power to you for maximizing your money.


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## frank808 (Sep 22, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> It seems like renting is not the lowest hanging fruit especially when the stock market and home rentals are faring so well. In addition, if the economy falters, vacation rentals are the first place where people cut expenses.  However if renting offsets the cost of your vacations, and you enjoy the effort of renting out timeshares, then all the power to you for maximizing your money.


By all means i am not saying to buy timeshares to rent as an investment.  I am just saying that there has been a timeshare system that has returned decently these past few years.

Totally agree that in a bad economy luxury items like timeshares are the first to go.  

A wise man told me once that there are 3 things in life you need.  Food, clothing and shelter anything else is a luxury.  I don't like working in the sun so no farming, my hands are to big for sewing and so home rentals it is. Being a landlord is great residual income as people have to have a roof over their head.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 22, 2017)

frank808 said:


> Being a landlord is great residual income as people have to have a roof over their head.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk



Completely agree. We own a property in a resort area and found that we can make more money (at least during good economic times) as a VRBO/AirBnB.  It is not very profitable compared to other investment alternatives, however it is nice to get money in our sleep and pay for the property maintenance expenses and taxes.  It has doubled in value since we purchased it. And we can use it when we want.  (IMHO, We are tired of the property location, and I enjoy exploring new timeshare locations and not having to maintain them.)

Can you write-off maintenance and associated rental expenses with a timeshare when you rent it out?


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## frank808 (Sep 22, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Completely agree. We own a property in a resort area and found that we can make more money (at least during good economic times) as a VRBO/AirBnB.  It is not very profitable compared to other investment alternatives, however it is nice to get money in our sleep and pay for the property maintenance expenses and taxes.  It has doubled in value since we purchased it. And we can use it when we want.  (IMHO, We are tired of the property location, and I enjoy exploring new timeshare locations and not having to maintain them.)
> 
> Can you write-off maintenance and associated rental expenses with a timeshare when you rent it out?


That is the beauty of timeshares.  The ability to go to different places and not worrying about the yard, roof, appliances etc.  You do pay for that privilege and convenience.

Consult with your tax pro in regards to deducting your maintenance fee and expenses.  Don't forget the depreciation of the property as that also lowers your profit.  As such you should consult your tax professional as I am not one.


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## TXTortoise (Sep 22, 2017)

frank808 said:


> Yes you can write off your maintenance fee and expenses.  Don't forget the depreciation of the property as that also lowers your profit.  As such you should consult your tax professional as I am not one.



Might want to check that. Some good explanations here on TUG and on the net about the very limited circumstances allowing you to write off some expenses.


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## frank808 (Sep 22, 2017)

TXTortoise said:


> Might want to check that. Some good explanations here on TUG and on the net about the very limited circumstances allowing you to write off some expenses.


No problem.  I am not a tax professional and don't play one.  Like i said in my post consult a tax professional.  If i rent my timeshares i will consult my cpa.  Ill edit my post.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 22, 2017)

frank808 said:


> By all means i am not saying to buy timeshares to rent as an investment.  I am just saying that there has been a timeshare system that has returned decently these past few years.
> *
> Totally agree that in a bad economy luxury items like timeshares are the first to go.  *


That is the thing about the Marriott brand, it will always have high demand even when the economy is bad.  I've been owning and renting since 2002 and when the economy tanked I thought well there goes my rentals and the fact is nothing changed and I was still renting at a premium and have ever since. The people that rent Maui units in the winter are typically not the ones that suffer in a down economy and that certainly proved true. And I'm not talking about being able to rent 1 unit every year through the recession but my 6 - 8  units rented just as they always have.  My returns were much more than 10-12%, on an annual cost basis without getting into specifics.

As for writing off your expenses, if you are renting for a profit like I am you can in fact write off your expenses but there are strict rules that cover this that quite honestly my accountant knows better than I.


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## frank808 (Sep 22, 2017)

MOXJO7282 said:


> That is the thing about the Marriott brand, it will always have high demand even when the economy is bad.  I've been owning and renting since 2002 and when the economy tanked I thought well there goes my rentals and the fact is nothing changed and I was still renting at a premium and have ever since. The people that rent Maui units in the winter are typically not the ones that suffer in a down economy and that certainly proved true. And I'm not talking about being able to rent 1 unit every year through the recession but my 6 - 8  units rented just as they always have.  My returns were much more than 10-12%, on an annual cost basis without getting into specifics.
> 
> As for writing off your expenses, if you are renting for a profit like I am you can in fact write off your expenses but there are strict rules that cover this that quite honestly my accountant knows better than I.


Glad that you were able to rent during the recession and not experience a downturn.  Since you are getting better than 10-12%, it is better than disney.  I take it the people that are doing spec rentals are getting more but I don't follow spec rentals at all.  I just go by what the brokers are paying owners for their points. 

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## BocaBoy (Sep 22, 2017)

The argument that Marriott timeshares are a bad investment is true today, but that has not always been the case. 

Believe it or not, it was actually not a bad investment until about 10-12 years ago, when maintenance fees started to go through the roof and the Great Recession hit and decimated real estate values, with timeshares especially hard hit.  We bought several weeks from the developer (Marriott), starting in 1987 and ending a year or two before the Great Recession hit.  We sold two of our weeks for a PROFIT over the developer cost, three at approximately break-even, and our last sale (2 years ago) at a 30% loss.  This could never be done with developer weeks purchased today, largely due to the size of the maintenance fees which substantially holds down sales prices, but it might still be possible with well selected resale weeks.

We now own only three weeks and are very satisfied with our portfolio, especially with all of our weeks enrolled in the DC program.


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## valenta (Sep 23, 2017)

Boom-chaka said:


> ...that assumes 10 resort travel days per year and a 5 year loan term at 19% APR. The best ROI is 7 years, assuming 20 resort travel days per year and a 5-year loan term at 5% APR.
> 
> That stinks.
> 
> ...



When we were thinking of buying our first timeshare we called our financial advisor. He said 1 this is not an investment, 2 think of it as purchase of future hotel rooms 3 I own three of them. We now own two MVC properties for over 10 years and are very happy with the purchase.


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## csodjd (Sep 23, 2017)

I have four weeks ocean front or ocean view in Hawaii. Doubt I could get those two-bedroom "suites" for $250/nt. Or $500/nt. Probably closer to $700-$800/nt. In Hawaii, having a kitchen saves about $1000/wk or more compared with staying at a hotel, and that's still allowing for half our dinners out. These have to be factored into a purely economic break-even analysis. 

But in the end, I don't and didn't view buying a timeshare interest as an investment or based on purely economic analysis. It's like buying a home based on economics without considering the intangibles, such as, will I enjoy LIVING here? It's great if you can make money on your house, but it's more important that you enjoy living there. 

So too buying a timeshare. One should not buy a TS if they don't have disposable "play" money to spend on it, because it is more or less money lost. Just like one should not sit down at a craps table in Vegas with money they need to pay the bills! But, if you've got $25k that makes no real difference in your life, a TS may be a fun way to spend it.


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## Hankmoon (Sep 23, 2017)

I like buying into "vacation clubs" or "residence clubs" because:
1) you can call and make a reservation to travel wherever you want to go without waiting for an exchange
2) As an owner/member, you get priority rooms and the best views - and you can negotiate addendums to make sure you get what you want for the term of your contract
3) if your home club gets destroyed in a disaster like a hurricane, you are not in trouble because you have many other clubs to choose from
4) depending on the club, you get many extra perks not available with a traditional timeshare or a resale timeshare - like free vacations, free airfare, free meals, free excursions, free years for the exchange memberships, discounted services (spas, masssages), etc.

Everyone raves about Marriott. I thoroughly investigated buying a Marriott on the resale market but decided against it for various reasons. We own two vacation clubs that we bought from the developer. They were expensive but we felt they were worth it. Our break even on them is not that far out because of all the perks the developers gave us and the maintenance fees are below Marriott maintenance fees yet the quality of the resorts are the equivalent or higher and we get more weeks included for the upfront amount paid. We can also purchase Marriott weeks and any property offered through SFX without trading weeks as a perk of buying directly from the developer for $699 for a 1 bedroom or $899 for a 2 bedroom. This is well below the maintenance fees. We get 2 weeks a year at these prices with one of our memberships.

In the end, however, the decision to buy a timeshare for us was not about the breakeven point. It was about buying into destinations that provide excellent quality and service with beautiful rooms that could accommodate our family. We were tired of hotel rooms and wanted to travel in 4 and 5 star vacation clubs in large condominium style rooms with everything done for us. The clubs we choose offer many activities and amenities in beach destinations with the ability to also travel worldwide without exchanging.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 23, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> I like buying into "vacation clubs" or "residence clubs" because:
> 1) you can call and make a reservation to travel wherever you want to go without waiting for an exchange
> 2) As an owner/member, you get priority rooms and the best views - and you can negotiate addendums to make sure you get what you want for the term of your contract
> 3) if your home club gets destroyed in a disaster like a hurricane, you are not in trouble because you have many other clubs to choose from
> 4) depending on the club, you get many extra perks not available with a traditional timeshare or a resale timeshare - like free vacations, free airfare, free meals, free excursions, free years for the exchange memberships, discounted services (spas, masssages), etc.



Maximizing timeshares is like playing airline and hotel points games with credit cards bonuses.  Many people should not sign up for credit cards, but if you pay off every month and manage wisely, you can come out ahead and/or enjoy nice intangibles.  Good for some willing and interested in the game, bad for others who live paycheck to paycheck, or don't have the inclination nor ability to stay on top of it.

With that said, many people I know own a timeshare in major chains (Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Vistana, Worldmark,)  and are quite happy with using them year after year without all the exchanging and maximization.


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## Hankmoon (Sep 23, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Maximizing timeshares is like playing airline and hotel points games with credit cards bonuses.  Many people should not sign up for credit cards, but if you pay off every month and manage wisely, you can come out ahead and/or enjoy nice intangibles.  Good for some willing and interested in the game, bad for others who live paycheck to paycheck, or don't have the inclination nor ability to stay on top of it.



Yes, I agree. I think timeshares are about using what you buy. Not about trying to "win." Just enjoy what you bought. Originally, I thought it was about maximizing and that was stressful. I will never exchange my weeks at my vacation clubs because I bought at places we love. If someone buys a low cost timeshare with low maintenance fees i.e. "trader" - that is another story, I guess. I like the TUG philosophy of buying where you want to go. I also like the philosophy of only buying with your play money.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 23, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> Yes, I agree. I think timeshares are about using what you buy. Not about trying to "win." Just enjoy what you bought. Originally, I thought it was about maximizing and that was stressful. I will never exchange my weeks at my vacation clubs because I bought at places we love. If someone buys a low cost timeshare with low maintenance fees i.e. "trader" - that is another story, I guess. I like the TUG philosophy of buying where you want to go. I also like the philosophy of only buying with your play money.



I like a little bit of both. We have a more expensive property where we like to stay, and a "trader" for fun.  I see the trader as "house money" so if I give it away when I sell, who cares because I paid nominal resale to purchase and will get 10 - 25 years of great vacation trades out of it for about $880 maintenance.  With resales at a fraction of the developer price, you can build an interesting portfolio that fits your needs.


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## rog2867 (Sep 23, 2017)

I would never buy a timeshare in Florida,  they go for free or a dollar online...


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## Hankmoon (Sep 23, 2017)

So what happens to folks whose primary timeshare is at a property that was damaged or destroyed such as Westin St John or Marriott St Thomas or anything on St Maarten?


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## lockewong (Sep 23, 2017)

WJS said:


> I wouldn't say it's a scam, but I would say that you are the WRONG person for the product.
> 
> In my opinion, you'd do yourself a huge favor by not buying a Marriott timeshare, and by vacationing however you otherwise see fit. I think you're trying to apply a degree of logic to an illogical (current tense) product. For those of us who have owned Marriott timeshares for 25 or 30 years, we long ago got our money's worth out of the thing, had years of great vacations and vacation memories, own something that has little financial value, today, but some degree of qualitative value, and for us, personally, while I think that our maintenance fees are approaching insanity, we still have great vacations, thanks to Marriott timeshare ownership. And, I'll be the first to say that if it were not for our Marriott timeshare ownership, we would have never, otherwise, had some of the phenomenal vacations that we did, or have stayed in some of the phenomenal places that we did.
> 
> I think Marriott stands just about no chance of making you/keeping you (as) a happy customer.


I have been a member for a few years.  This TUG Users group is phenomenal.  As to Boom-Chaka's's confusion, I agree with WJS in that the Marriott product is wrong.  We purchased MOC pre-construction prices.  Our family has benefited every year by vigilant booking and strict adherence to our window to book.  As a result, our children snorkel in Maui and watch the whales every year.  The week we choose to travel is priceless and in no way could we find a room under $400 a night because Maui is sold out that week.  I know this because one year in the beginning, I forgot to get a rental car.  It is a family investment that we cherish and the memories we create have no monetary value, including the times we visited with grandparents who stay with friends.  That is the intangible part of the timeshare.


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## Hankmoon (Sep 23, 2017)

GregT said:


> Wow - great post - thanks for the comments, I feel the same way!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



I agree too. If you buy into a high quality timeshare or vacation club, the vacations are unforgettable and you will get your value back, whether in monetary terms and/or incredible memories.


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## appell (Sep 23, 2017)

We purchased a two bedroom unit pre-construction at Grande Vista in Orlando for $13,000 in 1997(cash deal).  We received 200,000 Marriott reward points that we used for a free flight to Australia and a one week stay at the Marriott on the Gold Coast.  Since then we have swapped to every Marriott in Hawaii plus most others before they instituted the points system.  I feel that I more then made my moneys worth over the years and now the maintenance fee is still a bargain for the great Marriott units.  You have to be a total fool to buy anything at 19% interest.


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## Hankmoon (Sep 23, 2017)

Tokapeba said:


> We have stayed at many great places. Most we would never have thought we could afford. We purchased a Worldmark after loosing a Marriott Mountainside to Marriott with right of first refusal. If you are considering a purchase I would recommend you do something similar. Worldmark has many great places to stay mostly in the west, but it trades amazingly with II.
> 
> We have used it to go to Yellowstone, SF Union Square X3, Sonoma X3, Anaheim, Las Vegas, Lake Tahoe X10, skiing and in summer one time for the 4th, a couple places in Arizona. Bonus time is amazing. We have also traded it with II. Trading we have stayed Marriott Ko olina, The Grand Lodge at Breckenridge, The Grand Lodge at Peak 7 at Breckenridge X3,
> 
> ...



That is an amazing price per night. We pay a minimum of $400 a night for a small hotel room at the base of Squaw Valley during non-holiday ski season not including taxes. It comes out to over $1000 for a 2-night weekend. We are tired of high priced hotel rooms so we are looking forward to being new timeshare owners and giving up hotel rooms unless absolutely necessary!


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## frank808 (Sep 23, 2017)

rog2867 said:


> I would never buy a timeshare in Florida,  they go for free or a dollar online...


I dont see them giving away dvc points in orlando or selling them for a $1 a point. Actually they are pretty expensive.  I would take every marriott lakeshore unit (in Florida) that you have for free or even pay you $1.   

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## DeeCee (Sep 23, 2017)

We just bought Surfwatch/Gardenview/Gold Season, resale but direct through Marriott.  We haven't used it yet. This was after we got home from a trip last Spring to Hilton Head and sat in on a presentation in which we heard the pitch for 2000 Destination Points. We already own a timeshare with DVC since 2000 so we really weren't interested in Destination Points or a $26,000 buy in cost. We just wanted to learn more about Marriott and we were very interested in owning on HH island.

Anyway, I did do a quick brief cost analysis as follows: (I didn't include increases to MF or rack rates of 2 bedroom villas, as I figure leaving off both sort of keeps it all even anyway)

Cost of purchase, + closing costs + 5 years annual maintenance fees = X divided by $2275 (estimated cost of a 2 bedroom villa in an ocean side resort during Easter break for 7 nights - perhaps $325 per night is low for a popular week - but it's what I used) 
I come up with 5 3/4 years to break even, less if that $325 is too low of a figure to use.
After that, we look at it as 7 nights a year in a two bedroom villa for the cost of MFs. Which today comes out to about $185 a night.

Truth be told, I'm still uncertain about this purchase. Our first use of the resort will be Easter break next year. We love vacationing in Hilton Head and are hoping we love this resort enough to want to use it one week a year. If not, I'd have to add in the cost of a trade out to my analysis, because we'd use it to trade or let our adult kids use it every other year.

We already know if we sell it, it will most likely be a loss of a few thousand dollars, literally just a few, but after some years of usage to us it balances out because the most important factor to us is NOT having to pay thousands of dollars for the accommodations at checkout!

Timeshare ownership is NOT a financial investment for those of us who use it to vacation. I hope to never have to rent it, that would defeat the purpose of why we bought it, but we do like the option to do so.

ENJOY your timeshares and happy planning!

Dee


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## quikitikit (Sep 24, 2017)

I was planning to retire in Jan. 2009.  Wanting to continue going on vacations, I purchased Marriott Newport Coast on eBay in late 2008 use every other even year beginning 2010.  Lots of timeshares were being sold due to the recession.  After the purchase, I discovered Newport Coast 2 bedroom 2 bath was not a lock off.  Yes, have to learn these terms!  So I bought a Diamond Resort in Lake Tahoe 2 bedroom 2 bath, lockoff (our secretary and another friend owned here) every other odd year.  Marriott changed from the week to the points system mid 2010.  Diamond Resort also changed to the point system.  

After buying my timeshares on EBay, I discovered Tuggs and there is so much wonderful information for those thinking of getting into timeshares.  TUGGS confirmed about buying timeshares resale.  

When our children were growing up, we had family vacations.  But now with adult children and now 2 young grandchildren, the family time we have together with use of our Marriott villas whether at Newport Coast or in Hawaii, are immeasurable.  We love the Marriott properties of which all are beautiful and vacationing there is so much fun with the various activities there.  

And to think, I bought my first Marriott timeshare, sight unseen and relied only on the name.  I also learned about the Marriott Rewards program when another friend introduced me to it (about 2013) and told me to apply for the Marriott credit card.

So each has to decide whether timeshare is for them or not.  We have been extremely pleased with Marriott and their villas and properties.  We have owned and used Diamond Resorts and their resorts are not like Marriotts.  Because we pay II fees each year for Diamond Resorts, we also pay II fees each year for Marriott.  This year I thought about giving up the Lake Tahoe timeshare because of every other odd year use and double II fees, but hubby decided we should keep it because we have been fortunate to have traded the one bedroom for Marriott (At Ko Olina, Palm Springs, and San Diego, California).  It was this Ko Olina trip we traded the Lake Tahoe 1 bedroom for, that we decided to enroll in the Marriott Destination Club (points system) and enroll our week to be able to exchange for points.  

Love, love, love Marriott and it's properties!!!!   I've learned from TUGGS to take a Marriott vacation off peak in the odd year, which we did earlier this year, to save points and roll the rest to the even year to get villas with family during peak summer time.  Still learning from TUGGS which has so much valuable info!!  We will work on trying to make reservations within 60 days where points drop to 1/2!!  Thus stretching our points more!!


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## m61376 (Sep 24, 2017)

There are many types of "investments" and, especially when looking at retail (developer's) prices, it is hard, if not impossible, to justify a purchase on financial terms. However, even on purely economic terms, it is easier to find a reasonable break-even point when considering resale prices, especially since the recession a decade ago. 

While it seems questionable whether or not this truly fits the OP's needs or life-style, in general a potential purchaser really needs to consider the more intangible factors. Not to sound like a salesperson, but for many of us the "investment" is in enhancing our quality of life; ownership forces some to actually take vacations, ownership allows for more spacious and comfortable accommodations, ownership allows for inclusion of extended family (grandparents, siblings and, as life progresses, grown children and grandkids), etc. For us, having a kitchen avoids the dreaded hassle of the daily what to do for breakfast, and allows everyone to start the day at their own pace. It has enabled us to take multi-generation trips, invite friends to share vacations with us and, yes, it has forced us to routinely take vacations rather than being perhaps too practical in our expenditures. 

And, sometimes, it is that extra vacation that makes all the difference. A decade ago, really because of the ability to purchase a Getaway, we decided to sneak in an extra celebration for my parent's 60th anniversary. We had a family trip planned a month and a half later, during my daughter's intersession, but my husband and I decided to take just my parents away to Cancun for the week. If I had to spend thousands on hotel rooms, in light of law school tuition and other everyday expenses we wouldn't have taken the extra trip. We had a truly memorable trip, celebrated their anniversary a week later, and two weeks afterwards unexpectedly lost my Dad. So that extra time spent with family can truly create priceless memories. So, for me, the biggest investment is in US, and that can't be quantified in dollars and cents.


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## Hankmoon (Sep 24, 2017)

Adding to the above poster's comments, I see owning the "right" timeshare as a lifestyle investment. It is impossible to find a nicely maintained 2 bedroom condo with a kitchen and an ocean view. I do not like renting other people's condos on VRBO because you do not know what you are getting. We are new timeshare owners so maybe my opinion will change but so far, so good. In terms of cost effectiveness, I can't imagine we would not do better than hotel rooms since we only rent 4 and 5 star hotels, which are very expensive and do not have the space of a timeshare.


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## deslagle (Sep 24, 2017)

Marriott has a nice product.  If one sits down and figures out what it would cost to rent the same property for the same time one can save money.
There are two other options: 1 ) rent a Marriott timeshare week off TUG or Redweek.com or Timesharing Today and get a deal with no initial investment.
2) Search EBAY, Redweek.com, Timesharing today and/or TUG to buy a resale at a far cheaper price.
Sometimes the person is desperate to sell because of financial disaster or divorce and one can get the resale for a huge difference.
Just be patient.
NEVER PAY FULL PRICE DURING A TIMESHARE PRESENTATION..


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## Hankmoon (Sep 24, 2017)

I think there are two types of timeshare buyers on TUG: 1) TS share buyers seeking to maximizing ROI and who purchase low cost traders and will be unhappy if they "lose" money and 2) TS buyers who are looking for a lifestyle and enjoy the ease and perks that come from joining a vacation club (like Grand Luxxe Residence Club buyers) or those who prefer to buy where they want to visit - such as those who purchase ocean view in Hawaii.


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## Hi I'm new here (Sep 25, 2017)

deslagle said:


> Marriott has a nice product.  If one sits down and figures out what it would cost to rent the same property for the same time one can save money.
> There are two other options: 1 ) rent a Marriott timeshare week off TUG or Redweek.com or Timesharing Today and get a deal with no initial investment.
> 2) Search EBAY, Redweek.com, Timesharing today and/or TUG to buy a resale at a far cheaper price.
> Sometimes the person is desperate to sell because of financial disaster or divorce and one can get the resale for a huge difference.
> ...



I agree with this assessment. 
Any analysis of timeshare payback time is flawed if rental timeshare or hotel rack rates are used.  When we were Marriott owners I could not say this out loud.  I say it now to anyone thinking about buying. 

A very patient friend purchased Marriott timeshares on eBay for $500 and $1000 during the recession.  He is planning to sell within the year and will make a few bucks. He wants to get out while the economy is good. 
History tells us a recession occurs periodically, when that happens timeshare prices will drop like a rock.  Just wait until destination club owners start defaulting on loans and yearly fees.


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## Xpat (Sep 25, 2017)

Hi I'm new here said:


> Any analysis of timeshare payback time is flawed if rental timeshare or hotel rack rates are used. When we were Marriott owners I could not say this out loud. I say it now to anyone thinking about buying.



For me the true value is somewhere in the middle. I value the ability to book direct from MVCI and have direct access to the reservation platform. Before becoming a owner I would book MVCI resorts on Marriott.com often at 2 to 3x the equivalent cost of my weeks or points.



Hi I'm new here said:


> Just wait until destination club owners start defaulting on loans and yearly fees.



Slightly off topic but I'm wondering - what happens when DC owners default in greater numbers during the next recession? Does MVCI have to make up the maintenance fee revenue shortfall for the underlying resorts until they resell the "repossessed" points?


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## Hankmoon (Sep 25, 2017)

Some of the destinations I am able to enjoy with my vacation clubs are not available for rent on TUG and Redweek and VRBO. For example, Pueblo Bonito Pacifica Adults Only (not the timeshare version) and Royal Hideaway Adults Only. I was able to book both of these for just the cost of the food - about $1200 to $1500 for the week for 2 adults. We are going to PBP for Christmas, and on Expedia, the ocean view suite is at least $6000 for the week. It is a AAA 4 Diamond resort. Royal Hideaway is a leading hotel of the world. We are going at the end of January and on Expedia it is a minimum of $5000+ for that week for the worst room. I am hoping we get something better than the worst room since we are a member of the vacation club that owns Royal Hideaway. So being a vacation club member can actually be beneficial financially if you stay at high end resorts that can't be rented any other way. I am also able to rent Marriotts and Westins for $699 for 1 bedrooms and $899 for 2 bedrooms without exchanging through my Vida weeks on SFX. I prefer to never exchange my Grand Luxxe weeks. For me renting or exchanging weeks to stay elsewhere is too much work. I much prefer to call the vacation club and make a reservation. I calculate breakeven based on how much I save between what I pay to stay somewhere vs what retail costs since I stay places that are hard to rent any other way and/or I can get the Marriotts and Westins in Hawaii and elsewhere well below the cost of maintenance fees and rental prices on TUG and elsewhere.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 25, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> For me renting or exchanging weeks to stay elsewhere is too much work. I much prefer to call the vacation club and make a reservation. I calculate breakeven based on how much I save between what I pay to stay somewhere vs what retail costs since I stay places that are hard to rent any other way and/or I can get the Marriotts and Westins in Hawaii and elsewhere well below the cost of maintenance fees and rental prices on TUG and elsewhere.



Agree, timeshares offer greatest value if you enjoy high-end properties at iconic locations (e.g. Marriott, Westin, Hilton, Hyatt, Montage), want cleanliness, consistency and quality, and you prefer larger units 1 - 2 bedrooms and a kitchen.

Timeshares may not make sense when there are only two people that are fine with a studio.  Or are less picky about accomodations and don't mind the hassle and risk of finding a rental during a popular vacation week every year.  A hotel, rental, or Airbnb may offer better value with a lot less risk.


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## Panina (Sep 25, 2017)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Agree, timeshares offer greatest value if you enjoy high-end properties at iconic locations (e.g. Marriott, Westin, Hilton, Hyatt, Montage), want cleanliness, consistency and quality, and you prefer larger units 1 - 2 bedrooms and a kitchen.
> 
> Timeshares may not make sense when there are only two people that are fine with a studio.  Or are less picky about accomodations and don't mind the hassle and risk of finding a rental during a popular vacation week every year.  A hotel, rental, or Airbnb may offer better value with a lot less risk.


My best timeshares are not high end name brands but they are still very nicely done, clean and great quality and are in the best locations, prime time.  Renting at them during the times I own would be like finding a needle in a haystack.


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## CalGalTraveler (Sep 25, 2017)

You are correct @Panina. There are probably several segments of highest owner value.


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## frank808 (Sep 25, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> I am also able to rent Marriotts and Westins for $699 for 1 bedrooms and $899 for 2 bedrooms without exchanging through my Vida weeks on SFX. I prefer to never exchange my Grand Luxxe weeks. For me renting or exchanging weeks to stay elsewhere is too much work. I much prefer to call the vacation club and make a reservation. I calculate breakeven based on how much I save between what I pay to stay somewhere vs what retail costs since I stay places that are hard to rent any other way and/or I can get the Marriotts and Westins in Hawaii and elsewhere well below the cost of maintenance fees and rental prices on TUG and elsewhere.



What time frames can you get a 2br at westin kaanapali or north for $899 a week?  What about time frames for atlantis at Harborside?  How far out can you get a unit?  Can you call and see what is available for next july at westin kaanapali? Just want to get an idea of availability and dates to book if you can just call and make reservations so easily at westins.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## Hankmoon (Sep 25, 2017)

Panina said:


> My best timeshares are not high end name brands but they are still very nicely done, clean and great quality and are in the best locations, prime time.  Renting at them during the times I own would be like finding a needle in a haystack.



Yes Panina, this is another good reason to own a timeshare vs renting. That is why it is very hard to do a break even analysis. There are many intangible reasons for owning. Everyone has their own individual reasons, lifestyles and preferences.


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## Panina (Sep 25, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> Yes Panina, this is another good reason to own a timeshare vs renting. That is why it is very hard to do a break even analysis. There are many intangible reasons for owning. Everyone has their own individual reasons, lifestyles and preferences.


You said it best, agree totally with you.


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## Hankmoon (Sep 25, 2017)

frank808 said:


> What time frames can you get a 2br at westin kaanapali or north for $899 a week?  What about time frames for atlantis at Harborside?  How far out can you get a unit?  Can you call and see what is available for next july at westin kaanapali? Just want to get an idea of availability and dates to book if you can just call and make reservations so easily at westins.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk



SFX is not a vacation club, as you know. Vidanta has a special arrangement with SFX where they award Vida weeks so you do not need to exchange your weeks. However, you still need to put in a request for what you want and see if you get it. If you get it, it is a great deal. SFX says Vida weeks and exchanges have the same priority in their system. So just like with exchanges, you need to make the request as far out as possible and be flexible with dates. Even with vacation clubs, it is always better to call as early in advance as possible to get the dates and room type you want but it is certainly easier than relying 100% on a trader for exchanging a timeshare week through an exchange company. Also, owners always get priority in room category and views. Between my 2 vacation clubs, I can also join RCI and II but I don't like RCI so I will let that one lapse when the free membership expires. I have not yet decided if I want II or not because with II, I would need to exchange weeks. Also, II and SFX have a lot of duplicate inventory so not sure if it is worth joining II if the Vida weeks work out well since Vida weeks are cheaper than trading on II both in terms of fees and the cost per week.


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## Colt Seavers (Sep 26, 2017)

frank808 said:


> What time frames can you get a 2br at westin kaanapali or north for $899 a week?  What about time frames for atlantis at Harborside?  How far out can you get a unit?  Can you call and see what is available for next july at westin kaanapali? Just want to get an idea of availability and dates to book if you can just call and make reservations so easily at westins.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk



I was curious about this too, as it sounds basically like something you would only hear at a presentation.  Does anyone have any actual examples of booking one of these Marriott/Westin deals or is it just a sales pitch?  I am also curious how much Marriott inventory even gets into SFX now that Marriott in inextricably linked with Interval.


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## Hankmoon (Sep 26, 2017)

Colt Seavers said:


> I was curious about this too, as it sounds basically like something you would only hear at a presentation.  Does anyone have any actual examples of booking one of these Marriott/Westin deals or is it just a sales pitch?  I am also curious how much Marriott inventory even gets into SFX now that Marriott in inextricably linked with Interval.



I was talking to SFX, not the TS sales people about availability. It just depends on how much inventory SFX gets. But I would rather buy a week than exchange a week. Either way, you need to go through the same process of putting in a request and waiting. So we should be asking the SFX members how hard it is to get Marriott and Westin inventory. SFX says exchanges and buying weeks are equivalent in their system.


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## dagger1 (Sep 26, 2017)

frank808 said:


> What time frames can you get a 2br at westin kaanapali or north for $899 a week?  What about time frames for atlantis at Harborside?  How far out can you get a unit?  Can you call and see what is available for next july at westin kaanapali? Just want to get an idea of availability and dates to book if you can just call and make reservations so easily at





Hankmoon said:


> Some of the destinations I am able to enjoy with my vacation clubs are not available for rent on TUG and Redweek and VRBO. For example, Pueblo Bonito Pacifica Adults Only (not the timeshare version) and Royal Hideaway Adults Only. I was able to book both of these for just the cost of the food - about $1200 to $1500 for the week for 2 adults. We are going to PBP for Christmas, and on Expedia, the ocean view suite is at least $6000 for the week. It is a AAA 4 Diamond resort. Royal Hideaway is a leading hotel of the world. We are going at the end of January and on Expedia it is a minimum of $5000+ for that week for the worst room. I am hoping we get something better than the worst room since we are a member of the vacation club that owns Royal Hideaway. So being a vacation club member can actually be beneficial financially if you stay at high end resorts that can't be rented any other way. I am also able to rent Marriotts and Westins for $699 for 1 bedrooms and $899 for 2 bedrooms without exchanging through my Vida weeks on SFX. I prefer to never exchange my Grand Luxxe weeks. For me renting or exchanging weeks to stay elsewhere is too much work. I much prefer to call the vacation club and make a reservation. I calculate breakeven based on how much I save between what I pay to stay somewhere vs what retail costs since I stay places that are hard to rent any other way and/or I can get the Marriotts and Westins in Hawaii and elsewhere well below the cost of maintenance fees and rental prices on TUG and elsewhere.


Could you let me know what vacation club offers 2 BR Westins/Marriotts for $899/week.  I am very interested in this because the MF's for these units in Hawaii are $2K plus.  If this is an annual perk on top of the other club benefits, it's a fantastic deal!!!


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## frank808 (Sep 26, 2017)

Colt Seavers said:


> I was curious about this too, as it sounds basically like something you would only hear at a presentation.  Does anyone have any actual examples of booking one of these Marriott/Westin deals or is it just a sales pitch?  I am also curious how much Marriott inventory even gets into SFX now that Marriott in inextricably linked with Interval.


It will be next to impossible to get units from SFX at kaa, kan  and mko for $699 and $899.  It is exchange company trying to get you to pay their annual fees.  I have had no luck with sfx a few years ago.  Gave them a couple hgvc lagoon units for exchange and got no exchanges for it.  Was told that the units i wanted in hawaii were possible to get me to deposit the lagoon units.  My units did not hit for anything i asked for in hawaii.  Which were westin and marriott units.  They expired with no matches.  What a waste for me to deposit prime weeks with SFX.  

It is a sales talk to tell you your vacation club CAN get you units and list these awesome places at such great rates to buy into their vacation club.  Then the reality is that it would be next to impossible to get these units.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## Hankmoon (Sep 26, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> Could you let me know what vacation club offers 2 BR Westins/Marriotts for $899/week.  I am very interested in this because the MF's for these units in Hawaii are $2K plus.  If this is an annual perk on top of the other club benefits, it's a fantastic deal!!!



Maybe I will put in a request just to see if I get something. If successful, I will let Tuggers know. I am particularly interested in Squaw Valley for ski season 2019. But I may also try for Hawaii in summer 2019. Next year, we already have plans made.


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## dagger1 (Sep 26, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> Maybe I will put in a request just to see if I get something. If successful, I will let Tuggers know. I am particularly interested in Squaw Valley for ski season 2019. But I may also try for Hawaii in summer 2019. Next year, we already have plans made.


I read a little further, I guess you meant that SFX could get us into a Marriott or Westin 2/2 for $899.  I guess I will have to check them out.


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## Hankmoon (Sep 26, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> I read a little further, I guess you meant that SFX could get us into a Marriott or Westin 2/2 for $899.  I guess I will have to check them out.



Yes, if you have the equivalent of Vida weeks. I am not sure what they call them with other timeshare companies or if you can get them if you join as a Diamond member. I just put in a request for summer 2019 for some Marriotts and Westins in Maui and Kauai but I was very specific since I have been to Hawaii so many times.


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## Quadmaniac (Sep 27, 2017)

I think the biggest differential is that you COULD possibly get the weeks, but actually getting it is much different. As Marriott and Westin Kaanapali mostly trades in II, I think their availability in SFX is limited and I would say try getting them first as it sounds like a sales pitch to me as well. If it was as easy as you assume it to be, I think many more would have reported getting them from SFX

For how much you paid for the Vida weeks, I'm pretty sure we're further head buying cheap traders (for easily under $1000, sometimes $100) trading into the Marriotts and Westin with preference under II.


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## hurnik (Sep 27, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> I was talking to SFX, not the TS sales people about availability. It just depends on how much inventory SFX gets. But I would rather buy a week than exchange a week. Either way, you need to go through the same process of putting in a request and waiting. So we should be asking the SFX members how hard it is to get Marriott and Westin inventory. SFX says exchanges and buying weeks are equivalent in their system.



AFAIK, the only way SFX gets Marriott inventory is if someone (a Marriott owner) deposits.  For that reason, I'd say it's *not* common for them to get a MOC.  But I know they *have* gotten some in the past, but I'd say (gut feeling) it's maybe 1-2/year.

SFX does get some Hilton (because HGVC does have some sort of agreement with SFX), and LOTS of Vidanta ( although not as much as II apparently).

If you were flexible, you *might* get one with a 2 year search, but keep in mind your pecking order may not be as high as someone who has deposited a high value week or something.

Just saying.

Personally I like SFX and have used them successfully, but mainly for Mexico resorts.

I own HGVC, so I do not have access to II or Marriott (unfortunately).


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## Denverken (Nov 2, 2017)

Referring to original post.

If you really like a place then buy there resale. Get a good deal on TUGG or Redweek or some other place. If you buy at a quality resort and reserve high demand weeks then you will be able to rent it if you don't go. I own at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club. We love the resort. We bought it resale and it has been a great "investment". When we use it we save money and can live there, bring food, etc. When we don't go I reserve it for spring break or some other high demand time (almost any week of the year in HI) and I rent it out and get much more than my fees. I actually make money with a good rate of return based on my resale purchase price. It has been great. It just takes a little bit of effort (not too much though). I'm thinking if you put this much effort into analyzing it then you must like the place a little. Or maybe you just like crunching numbers that much. Sicko! Just kidding!

Just as an example, we got pitched for the first time at Marriott Waiohai in Kauai. My wife was ready to go. I said "lets think about it". They were selling an every other year week for about $22,000 (around 2006 I think). The cheapest one listed on Redweek right now is $3,799. Both are Island view, every other year (all are 2 bedrooms there). The resort is beautiful and the fees are the same whether you bought from them or resale. So if you are even considering buying from the developer and you like the place that much then just buy resale. If you hate owning it just sell it. You won't take a bath that way. Most likely you will go a couple of times and say "man I'm smart. I pay $2100 per stay in fees and these guys are paying $5000 and they have to pay for parking!" or something like that. That's how I feel.

The best option for you may be to just rent timeshares if they are a better deal than the hotel prices wherever you are going. Stick with quality names like Marriott, Hilton, Starwood, etc. If you can rent a nice hotel room there then it is probably the right place. People like me that own timeshares and rent them out will gladly make a little money and you will still get a deal. This will help you explore more places. If you find that you love one of them then you can look at buying something, resale of course.

Good luck and happy travels!


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## pedro47 (Nov 3, 2017)

Why is Marriott building four (4) new hotels in Ocean City, Maryland?
 Right now. 

  Are they going to build a timeshare resort in Ocean City, Maryland?

 This could be the next Myrtle Beach and a good investment for Marriott and the timeshare industry.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 3, 2017)

pedro47 said:


> Why is Marriott building four (4) new hotels in Ocean City, Maryland?
> Right now.
> 
> Are they going to build a timeshare resort in Ocean City, Maryland?
> ...



Different company building the hotels. That's Marriott International doing that.


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