# Anybody know anything about puppy breeding (m)



## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 17, 2006)

Either I'm being scammed or this lady I'm dealing with knows nothing about breeding.   I put a deposit on a puppy.  Her site looked reputable and I got a few referances.   So I think she is legit but how can you really know for sure.  Anyways, the first set of puppies the Mom squished to death.  I know, that is horrible.  I called UCDavis Vet school and they said that could happen if the Mom got spooked.  I even asked another breeder if he had ever heard of that and he said yes.  So, she said that I could either keep one of the 2 she didn't kill or move my deposit to another litter.  So, I moved it to another litter that was due any day.  I asked if the litter had been born yet and she says she doesn't think the dog is pregnant now.  Okay... does this sound fishy that the breeder can't tell if their dog is pregnant?  I know nothing about breeding but I thought I researched it throughly.  But I am doubting myself now.


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## Spence (Dec 17, 2006)

ciscogizmo1 said:
			
		

> So, I moved it to another litter that was due any day.  I asked if the litter had been born yet and she says she doesn't think the dog is pregnant now.  Okay... does this sound fishy that the breeder can't tell if their dog is pregnant?  I know nothing about breeding but I thought I researched it throughly.  But I am doubting myself now.


From 'any day' to 'not pregnant,' that seems like a stretch for anyone with any experience.


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## johnmfaeth (Dec 17, 2006)

Is the dog craving pickles and ice cream ?


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## Andar (Dec 17, 2006)

My sister is a breeder and international dog show judge.  She has been a breeder for 30 years and has international champions and her puppies are all ofver the world.  Here is what she said: 
1) False pregnancies are not uncommon; HOWEVER, a good breeder would have had an X-ray or ultra sound after the 7th week.   So it is not a good sign that the puppies were due "any day now"
2) It is not uncommon for some puppies to be squished -especially for large dogs.  However, most good breeders keep close watch on mom and puppies to prevent that from happening.  Small dogs are less likely to do it. 
3) a good breeder would have had a contract with you spelling out all the conditions.  
4) Get your deposit back and find a good breeder!

BTW what breed it it?


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## JoAnn (Dec 17, 2006)

I agree with Andar...get your money back and find a really good breeder.  Ask your Vet for recommendations on a breeder.  Or do a search on the 'net to find the local 'breed of your choice' club in your area.  Most do have websites.  Or, if you find a listing for 'dog training' talk to someone in that club...because many who work and train dogs know the good & reputable breeders.  Also, be sure to check out the papers of the parents of the pups you want.  Better yet...at least one of the parents should be on the premises.   Do NOT ask at your local pet store.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 17, 2006)

Andar said:
			
		

> BTW what breed it it?



It's a designer dog, Goldendoodle.  She did have contract so I signed one.  She felt really bad about the puppies being squished.  She has a regular pet sitter but for some reason the Mom felt in danger.   She went away for Thanksgiving weekend when they died.  She was recommended by several people.  She definitely does this as a business.  I found in my search there are two kinds of breeders out there.  Those that breed for shows like your  sister and those that breed for pets.  I found the really good serious breeders are out of my price range and most won't even talk to me because I'm not known in the dog show circles.  I just want a pet dog but I don't want one from the pound/SPCA because I want to know the temperment of the dog.  

My guess is that she is not doing the X-ray to keep costs down.   I'm sure she is just matting the dogs and then, figuring out when the puppies would be born.  I guess, I'll have to find another breeder.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 17, 2006)

JoAnn said:
			
		

> I agree with Andar...get your money back and find a really good breeder.  Ask your Vet for recommendations on a breeder.  Or do a search on the 'net to find the local 'breed of your choice' club in your area.  Most do have websites.  Or, if you find a listing for 'dog training' talk to someone in that club...because many who work and train dogs know the good & reputable breeders.  Also, be sure to check out the papers of the parents of the pups you want.  Better yet...at least one of the parents should be on the premises.   Do NOT ask at your local pet store.



Thanks for the information.  I was told not to pick a puppy out of the paper.  I was told that was a bad source.  She does have the parents on premises.  Since this is a designer dog they won't have papers like other dogs would.  Oh, and she is more than willing to give me my money back.

This breeder was recommended through the Goldendoodle.org   She seemed pretty reputable.   I was just curious as to why she wouldn't know if dog is pregnant.  Now, my guess is that she didn't want to spend the money getting x-rays.  I don't know if that makes her a bad breeder especially since she is breeding just for pets.


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## wackymother (Dec 17, 2006)

My friend has two goldendoodles from Moss Creek Goldendoodles. They are very reputable. The dogs are nice healthy dogs, but very expensive, and then you have to pay for shipping. They do have a goldendoodle forum where you might get some tips on finding a goldendoodle in your area. Good luck! Here's their website. 

www.mcdoodles.com


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## Laurie (Dec 17, 2006)

Talk to the people who breed for show, and ask whether they have any that aren't show quality that they'd sell or place as pets, or know someone who does. Often they are thrilled to find a good home for puppies who aren't quite up to show quality. I'd be suspicious of anyone who breeds to sell pets.


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## geekette (Dec 17, 2006)

We got our girl at the shelter.  Kept going back until we found the right temperament.  It can be done!!  Our shelter has a room where you can take the dog to see how it interacts with you.  

They didn't know the breed, tho, so if it's important to know for certain what breed you're getting, check the rescue organizations - sometimes they get puppies and because they spend lots of time with the breed, they would be a good judge of temperament.

I'm also not a fan of breeding pets.  I feel that breeding should be done responsibly to propogate the species to its finest.  This means screening for all genetic issues and having a clue as to whether or not the (girl dog) is preggers or not.  

My mother loved poodles and found some great pets that couldn't be shown for one reason or another.  We always get our pets neutered so that requirement was not an issue with us.  

Good luck on finding your new bundle of joy!


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## Jestjoan (Dec 17, 2006)

JMHO, but I would not pay big bucks for a non AKC "designer" dog. YMMV.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/01/0115_040115_tvdesignerdogs.html


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 17, 2006)

I think, I found another dog.  It is a Golden Retriever.  The dog is local so I can go visit and check it out.  And, for the person concerned it is registered AKC dog not that means anything to me.  The dog will be neutered so I'm not planning on breeding or showing the dog.   So I think I found a solution.  

The lady with the Goldendoodle is giving me my money back.  I really wanted the dog because of their lack of shedding.  I'm not really a believer of the AKC thing.  I know some are but there is no proof that your dog is a purebreed.  All of the registration is on done on the honor system.  Trust me there are those that scam the AKC registration process.  YOu don't send in a DNA sample with your papers.    

P.S. on the rescue group, I did register with them but unfortunately, they won't give you a puppy if you have children in the home.  They want your children to be at least 12 years old and older.  While I love dogs most of the adult dogs in the rescue group come from abusive situations.   So we did search there but gave up as the dogs needed special care that I couldn't provide.


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## arlene22 (Dec 17, 2006)

ciscogizmo1 said:
			
		

> P.S. on the rescue group, I did register with them but unfortunately, they won't give you a puppy if you have children in the home.  They want your children to be at least 12 years old and older.  While I love dogs most of the adult dogs in the rescue group come from abusive situations.   So we did search there but gave up as the dogs needed special care that I couldn't provide.



What a harrowing experience! I'm so glad you finally found a dog you are happy with. I'm sure you will enjoy him or her.

FWIW, there are many rescue organizations that will place a dog in a home with children, if that dog is appropriate for such a home. We found the best dog in the world through www.petfinder.com It is a clearinghouse for tons of rescue operations throughout the country. A great thing about rescue is, many of them will keep the dog in foster homes and get a really good sense of the dog's personality, temperment, likes, dislikes, etc., so you really know what you're getting. Our dog, Buddy, (who passed away last year  ) was a full Collie and was a stray in Jersey City before the rescue group picked him up. Our youngest was almost one when we got him. She learned to walk by hanging onto his long hair. He was so gentle with all my kids, even though they weren't always gentle with him. He truly was the best dog. Everyone who met him loved him. We still miss him (can you tell?). Now we have a 1.5 year old expensive "breeder" collie, who is a good boy, but if I had to choose between the two... well, let's just say Buddy was a tough act to follow...  So don't write off the rescue dogs! They can turn out to be the best ones of all!


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## opusX (Dec 17, 2006)

Do look into rescue and be persistant, you will find goldendoodles as well as all the doodle designs. If the ladies bitch was pregnant so soon after giving birth she is running a puppy mill and you should stay away.


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## ouaifer (Dec 17, 2006)

Try www.petfinder.org .


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## Glynda (Dec 18, 2006)

*Breeders*

I feel for you!  I went through six months of emotional highs and lows due to an untrustworthy breeder:

http://gloryridgeshihtzulizzie.blogspot.com/


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## Cathy in Boston (Dec 18, 2006)

The Golden Retriever Club of America should be able to tell you if a breeder is reputable or not.

Our first Golden was a beauty, obtained from a good breeder.  We lost him to cancer in 2002.  In 2003, we adopted an absolute sweetheart of a Golden from Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue.  A wonderful organization.

You probably already know this, but Goldens shed - a LOT.  They are also wonderful, sweet, gentle dogs.


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## MarTN (Dec 18, 2006)

ciscogizmo1 said:
			
		

> I think, I found another dog.  It is a Golden Retriever. ... Rescue groups won't give you a puppy if you have children in the home.  They want your children to be at least 12 years old and older.  While I love dogs most of the adult dogs in the rescue group come from abusive situations.   So we did search there but gave up as the dogs needed special care that I couldn't provide.



How old are you children?  Puppies chew, puppies nip, puppies chew, puppies bite, puppies chew...   Leftover peanut butter on little fingers would be a delightful chewtoy for a puppy.  Also, kids have to remember not to slap at the puppy's face or it becomes a bad game.

As an FYI for anyone else reading this thread:

As a foster parent of approximately 20 adult Golden Retrievers over the years, most of ours did not come from abusive situations.  Some were great dogs that were not on heartworm preventative and their owners gave them up when they were diagnosed with heartworm because the treatment is expensive.  Some were former puppies that had outgrown their cuteness.  Quite a few were destructive when left alone in the backyard 23 hours/day.  We bring them into the house and show them how to behave inside and they love it!  Goldens were bred to be companion dogs.  They want to lay at their master's feet.  We've had some dogs placed with us due to moving and job changes.  They had great owners who had tried to find a friend to take their dog.  Many were very sad when they called us, but we are 100 times better than taking the dog to a shelter.  Yes, some dogs were abused but that doesn't have to "ruin" them.  My Maggie was left in a backyard in a harness when she was young and as she grew, the harness couldn't stretch past a certain point so it became embedded in her skin and had to be cut out.  We've had her 4+ years and she's a friend to everyone who meets her.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 18, 2006)

MarTN said:
			
		

> How old are you children?  Puppies chew, puppies nip, puppies chew, puppies bite, puppies chew...   Leftover peanut butter on little fingers would be a delightful chewtoy for a puppy.  Also, kids have to remember not to slap at the puppy's face or it becomes a bad game.
> 
> As an FYI for anyone else reading this thread:
> 
> As a foster parent of approximately 20 adult Golden Retrievers over the years, most of ours did not come from abusive situations.  Some were great dogs that were not on heartworm preventative and their owners gave them up when they were diagnosed with heartworm because the treatment is expensive.  Some were former puppies that had outgrown their cuteness.  Quite a few were destructive when left alone in the backyard 23 hours/day.  We bring them into the house and show them how to behave inside and they love it!  Goldens were bred to be companion dogs.  They want to lay at their master's feet.  We've had some dogs placed with us due to moving and job changes.  They had great owners who had tried to find a friend to take their dog.  Many were very sad when they called us, but we are 100 times better than taking the dog to a shelter.  Yes, some dogs were abused but that doesn't have to "ruin" them.  My Maggie was left in a backyard in a harness when she was young and as she grew, the harness couldn't stretch past a certain point so it became embedded in her skin and had to be cut out.  We've had her 4+ years and she's a friend to everyone who meets her.



Well, most of the dogs in the rescue groups have not been recommended to me because of their temperment and would need a lot of work.  I don't want to deal with a dog with an uneven temperment.  Yes, they can be taught a lot but I'm not willing to chance it.  Sorry.  I know there are a lot of homeless dogs out there but I want a puppy.  I've had a puppy before a border collie so I know exactly what they are like.  I don't like the nipping and biting stage either but it is such a short period of time to deal with it.   Also, in the 2 rescue groups I've been dealing with none of the dogs have been 100% golden.  Usually, some sort of mix.  

I can give you countless examples of dogs that I have found that haven't worked out.  I found one dog and I was too late in inquiring about the dog because another family had it.  That family ended up returning the dog because it would be hesitant around children which they had.  I don't want a dog like that.  

Anyways, I'm a perfect canditate for a dog/puppy.  I work out of the home part-time.  My kids are 6 and 9 and are in school most of the day.  So I have time to spend with a puppy.  My aunt is getting a rescue dog from shelter.  She works 4 days week so she is gone from the home 10 hours a day.  Plus, her husband is recovering from leg injury and has a long journey to recovery and uses a walker.  Yet she is a perfect canditate.  That's the part I don't get.  Oh, well.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 18, 2006)

Cathy in Boston said:
			
		

> The Golden Retriever Club of America should be able to tell you if a breeder is reputable or not.
> 
> Our first Golden was a beauty, obtained from a good breeder.  We lost him to cancer in 2002.  In 2003, we adopted an absolute sweetheart of a Golden from Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue.  A wonderful organization.
> 
> You probably already know this, but Goldens shed - a LOT.  They are also wonderful, sweet, gentle dogs.



Yes, I know they shed a lot but I like how gentle they are.  

Actually, the dog I found was recommended form the Golden Retriever Club of America.


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## Cathy in Boston (Dec 18, 2006)

http://www.golden-rescue.org/

http://www.homewardboundgoldens.org/

http://www.absolutelygolden.com/rescue.htm


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 18, 2006)

Glynda said:
			
		

> I feel for you!  I went through six months of emotional highs and lows due to an untrustworthy breeder:
> 
> http://gloryridgeshihtzulizzie.blogspot.com/



Omgosh, I just read year Blog.  That is horrible.  People are interesting out there.


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## MarTN (Dec 18, 2006)

ciscogizmo1 said:
			
		

> ...  Also, in the 2 rescue groups I've been dealing with none of the dogs have been 100% golden.  Usually, some sort of mix.
> ....



In case anyone else is reading this thread --

There are some dog rescue groups that will take in any breed, some that will take mixes close to a breed, and breed-specific rescues that will only adopt out dogs that really look like that breed.  Like everything in life, there are lots of great rescue groups and a few lousy ones.

Sometimes I think dogs and timeshare sales have a lot in common.  Some people get a puppy (purchase from the developer) because they think it will be better somehow.  Others buy an adult dog (resale) which was trained (depreciated) by the first owner.  ha ha


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## ciscogizmo1 (Dec 18, 2006)

MarTN said:
			
		

> Sometimes I think dogs and timeshare sales have a lot in common.  Some people get a puppy (purchase from the developer) because they think it will be better somehow.  Others buy an adult dog (resale) which was trained (depreciated) by the first owner.  ha ha



LOL....  :rofl:


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## wackymother (Dec 18, 2006)

Have you seen these complaints about that shih-tzu breeder? She's a nutjob. I'm sorry about your Lizzie and hope you find a wonderful companion for her.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff63879.htm

Wait, just saw Glynda as one of the people leaving negative comments. Sorry!


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