# Advice on Hyatt purchase



## Chuckdaddy (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm considering buying a week at Sunset Harbor.  I prefer that location to the other Hyatt Key West properties.  I'm not in any hurry and am definitely looking for a deal.  I'm hoping some of you fine folks can share your thoughts with me on the following:

First, I want to have good flexibility to trade within the Hyatt system.  I'm not buying this for the purpose of trading, as we plan on using the Key West location most of the time, but I'm sure we will visit other places here and there.  Looking at the point and week charts on Kal's page, I'm thinking that I want to buy a gold or platinum week, which would give me 1880 or 2000 points respectively.  If we were to trade into another Hyatt, we would mostly travel in the off season.  We don't ski, so the mountain resorts would be late spring to fall visits, etc.  Would a gold week at 1880 points generally be "good enough" to get me in off season at the other resorts?  Also, how hard is it usually to book off season in the Colorado resorts?  Some of the mountain point weeks look like a steal.  Are they impossible to get?

Second, assuming I go for a gold or platinum week, any idea what I can expect to spend?  I've looked at ebay and tried to research other sites.  The couple of platinum weeks I've seen around are listed in the mid 20s, and there's no way I'm paying that.  Is it realistic to get anything like I'm looking for in the ballpark of $10k?  My budget has some flexibility, but I'm not going to just throw money at it to get what I want, nor am I inclined to buy a week during hurricane season or anything like that just so I can have something.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.  All advice is appreciated.  I'm in no rush.  Just looking to make a smart decision.


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## heathpack (Feb 11, 2010)

Chuckdaddy said:


> Is it realistic to get anything like I'm looking for in the ballpark of $10k?



I am not a Hyatt expert but I did buy a Hyatt gold week within the last year and based on that experience, I would say your figure is very realistic.

However, I would proceed with some caution with a Hyatt purchase.  Hyatt recently changed its points charts for the Highlands Inn property (Carmel, CA) which makes the points "cost" of a 1BR unit the same as a 2BR elsewhere and the points "cost" of a 2BR is now that of a 3BR.

What this means to you is that whatever you buy now might not get you as much in the future within the Hyatt system.  The concept of buying a timeshare in order to partially fix costs of future travel may not be valid.  If you hope to ever do anything more than use your deeded week at Sunset Harbor, be very aware that the terms Hyatt's point system may change over time and it is likely that any changes will be more the Hyatt's advantage than yours.

Good luck in making your decision.  Hopefully some of the more experienced Hyatt owners will respond to your post as well.

H


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## D2-S3 (Feb 11, 2010)

*How many points?*

The reason to maximize the number of points you get is because your maintenance fee does not change with the number of points you own.  So, having 1300 points and 2200 points in a 2BR has the same MF.  If you look at it from the standpoint of how many weeks you get at II as a basis of measure, 1300 points gets you one 2BR week per year for one MF, wheras you get over three 2BR weeks every two years for the same MF's in the latter scenario.  That translates into better value over time.  And further, the 2200 point week will pull better trades because it is considered a more desirable week that you are trading.  Additionally, more points gives you more options for trading within the Hyatt system.  This could be important even if you stay at the same property every year, because you may not be able to get into a more desirable season.  I am not familiar with how much more the points cost as you move up the latter of buying a higher point week, but the more points you get the happier you will be.  I haven't traded into the mountain point weeks because it is not time of year I would want to go there.  I am sure the point cost is low because others feel the same, and therefore it is probably easy to get in.  No skiing and no golf.  You will really like Hyatt if you like to go to CO that time of year!


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## Chuckdaddy (Feb 11, 2010)

heathpack said:


> However, I would proceed with some caution with a Hyatt purchase.  Hyatt recently changed its points charts for the Highlands Inn property (Carmel, CA) which makes the points "cost" of a 1BR unit the same as a 2BR elsewhere and the points "cost" of a 2BR is now that of a 3BR.H



I am familiar with this change, and it does cause some concern.  It's offset somewhat in my circumstance because (1) we really would be OK with using Key West most of the time and (2) it's just me and my wife, so moving to a one bedroom isn't a huge deal for us.  I appreciate the heads-up on that though.


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## Chuckdaddy (Feb 11, 2010)

D2-S3 said:


> And further, the 2200 point week will pull better trades because it is considered a more desirable week that you are trading.  Additionally, more points gives you more options for trading within the Hyatt system.



That's the only reason I am looking at gold or higher.  Otherwise I woudn't care.  There does seem to be a big jump in price from gold to platinum (and I haven't even seen a diamond week for sale).  So, it's just something I'm going to have to weigh.

I called about a platinum week that was listed at $27k and was told that they already turned down a $20k offer, so my price point was not of interest.  Not sure if that's true about the 20k offer, but I told them it was more than I am going to pay and I'll look elsewhere.


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## D2-S3 (Feb 11, 2010)

*diamond*

Wow that is really amazing.  I think Hyatt must have held it's price better than other TS's.  I bought diamond developer 2200 points six years go for around 24K.  Once I found tug I thought I had been stupid to pay that much.  The fact that they are still that high is pretty surprising.


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## Carmel85 (Feb 12, 2010)

Chuckdaddy,


If you want Sunset harbor you are going to pay more that beach house it is that simple supple and demand and of course in real estate LOCATION LOCATION.

Sunset is 100% sold out and demand is high.  High Sierra in Lake Tahoe is the same in the summer 80% of owners come every year after year high demand almost al year long even when Northstar Hyatt is just down the road and the rooms at Northstar are beautiful.


Only buy a 1880,2000,2200 point week and buy where you want to go if you like Sunset buy the week you want to go if not but any Hyatt except San Juan and trade for Sunset.  Waitlist way out and you will get Sunset it is that simple.

Get a good 1880 at Sunset for 10k.

Hyatt Tahoe is controled by the owners NOT Hyatt so the board keeps the fees low and they push hyatt and question hyatt about expenses!!!!  Sedona has low MF's controled by Hyatt.


I hope this helps because one day Hyatt is going to start building and when the market come back we will all be more happy with new places.


Once you buy 1 Hyatt you will be back to buy another Hyatt you will see.   ONLY BUY RESALE

Good luck and happy hyatt hunting.


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## Chuckdaddy (Feb 12, 2010)

Carmel85,

Thanks for your post.  I've read many of your others with interest, particularly those about the point increase at HI.

I know SH is going to cost more than the other resorts, but for my own piece of mind, that's probably where I'll end up and try to find something.  Whenever I do purchase, it will be at least a 1880 point week, and it will be a resale.

Do you feel the 1880s give enough flexibility to trade, both in Hyatt and II?


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## mwwich (Feb 12, 2010)

Chuckdaddy:

We just purchased 2 1300 point weeks on the resale market in the $5K range/each.  We've stayed at Hyatt's and love their quality, and our thoughts after researching this was we wanted a minimum of 2000 points.  We travel "spring break" weeks and we'll need 2000 to get what we want (2 bedroom during prime season).  I would have liked to find a 2000+ point week, but those seem to bring much more than 2-1300 weeks (granted, the MF's will be more).  But w/2600 points we'll get 2 vacations year (one 2 bedroom at prime season and one studio for the wife and I for another less demanding week).

Like most things w/time-sharing, much of this is open to personal tastes (when you travel, 1 bed vs. 2, etc.).


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## Carmel85 (Feb 13, 2010)

Chuckdaddy,


I would need more info from you on how you want to use your points.

1880 is the lowest I would go.

You can always add a cheap 1100,1300 or 1400 point week if you want to go more.


Again I agree if you want a primetime week you will need 2200 points in a 2 bedroom unit but many people only want 1 bedrooms etc. so it is really up to you on how you make it happen.

I like doing 4 days stays less points but thne I like 11 days stay also.

Just remember with Hyatt if you stay on a Satuday night it is going to cost you a ton of points.


Some member I have seen do a 4 and and 2 at Carmel and never stay on a satuday night and use very little points.


Either way get out and buy a Hyatt you will like the program.   I believe you will see more Hyatt resorts coming when the economy turns around.


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## Kal (Feb 14, 2010)

mwwich said:


> Chuckdaddy:
> 
> We just purchased 2 1300 point weeks on the resale market in the $5K range/each. We've stayed at Hyatt's and love their quality, and our thoughts after researching this was we wanted a minimum of 2000 points. We travel "spring break" weeks and we'll need 2000 to get what we want (2 bedroom during prime season). I would have liked to find a 2000+ point week, but those seem to bring much more than 2-1300 weeks (granted, the MF's will be more). But w/2600 points we'll get 2 vacations year (one 2 bedroom at prime season and one studio for the wife and I for another less demanding week).
> 
> Like most things w/time-sharing, much of this is open to personal tastes (when you travel, 1 bed vs. 2, etc.).


 
As you know, when you own two 1300 point weeks, you pay two maintenance fees. Over time, that will get pretty spendy and will soon eclipse the savings achieved by not buying a single high point week. 

Moreover, I suggest you do some "what if" planning on how to manipulate the two 1300 points. The best situation will be if the two weeks occur about the same time. The further they are apart, the more difficult it will be to combine points for the CUP usage time frame. You may also find it difficult to use low-season points in prime-season. All points are equal but you will likely be out of sync in requesting a unit sufficiently well in advance of when the units become available for reservation. Your best opportunity will be to stay during the low season weeks. Spring break could be a serious challenge. Ideally, a person wants to own weeks as near as possible to the target weeks of usage.


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## mwwich (Feb 14, 2010)

Kal said:


> As you know, when you own two 1300 point weeks, you pay two maintenance fees. Over time, that will get pretty spendy and will soon eclipse the savings achieved by not buying a single high point week.
> 
> Moreover, I suggest you do some "what if" planning on how to manipulate the two 1300 points. The best situation will be if the two weeks occur about the same time. The further they are apart, the more difficult it will be to combine points for the CUP usage time frame. You may also find it difficult to use low-season points in prime-season. All points are equal but you will likely be out of sync in requesting a unit sufficiently well in advance of when the units become available for reservation. Your best opportunity will be to stay during the low season weeks. Spring break could be a serious challenge. Ideally, a person wants to own weeks as near as possible to the target weeks of usage.



Thanks for the info.  Yes are weeks are reasonably close together (late Oct and early Dec) and are both available to us now (have closed and just waiting on Hyatt to get us set up in their system).  Our plans are to use 2000 points in March 2011, and the window to reserve that opens up in a few weeks; if I understand the sytem correctly.  Have I missed something?

You are correct on two MF's, however in researching this it seems that rarely does a week become available above the 1880 points.  It would make sense to go that route but if there is little/no supply, it's not really a choice.  

We take two vacations/year, one at peak season with our kids and one in November to a sunny climate for just the wife and I, my understanding from our research is a Key West studio is not hard to get w/Hyatt, which is what we'll do with our 600 "leftover" points each year.  My further understanding is those 600 points will trade well in II for a studio at a beach location w/Marriott, etc.  

Please correct me if there is some error in our thinking...


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## Pit (Feb 14, 2010)

D2-S3 said:


> ... And further, the 2200 point week will pull better trades because it is considered a more desirable week that you are trading.   ...



I don't believe this statement is correct. When you exchange via II, you are not trading the week you own. Hyatt selects the week for deposit, and the point values required for deposit are independent of your ownership. Hyatt trade power in II is at the top, regardless of what week you own. So, I wouldn't worry about trade power as part of your purchase decision. I would, however, limit your search to the higher season weeks as others have suggested to maximize points/fee ratio.


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## Kal (Feb 14, 2010)

mwwich said:


> Thanks for the info. Yes are weeks are reasonably close together (late Oct and early Dec) and are both available to us now (have closed and just waiting on Hyatt to get us set up in their system). Our plans are to use 2000 points in March 2011, and the window to reserve that opens up in a few weeks; if I understand the sytem correctly. Have I missed something?
> 
> You are correct on two MF's, however in researching this it seems that rarely does a week become available above the 1880 points. It would make sense to go that route but if there is little/no supply, it's not really a choice.
> 
> ...


 
Based on your target stays, you should be able to get a 2-BR reservation for March 2011, but you will have to get on the request list ASAP. Those units will be released in mid-September 2010 or earlier. You have to have the correct number of CUP points in your account at the time the reservation is confirmed. You won't be able to stay the last week of March as your points will have expired by then.

For the November 2010 studio, you may not get it. Those units will be released in May 2010 and there will be many others already ahead of you on the request list. Besides, your 2010 October points will have moved into LCUP by then. Key West will be difficult in November with Power Boat Week and other events. In short, you will need to spend the 2010 "leftover" points quickly or they will be lost. The only KW studios are at Sunset Harbor. My quick guess is there are 20 of them so there is a limited supply.

You need to carefully plan your program for 2011 and get on the request lists quickly.

The point that 1880 point weeks do not come available is not true. They are easy to get provided you plan ahead. I have gotten two 2000 point weeks each year at Sunset Harbor for the last 8 years without fail. Moreover, I get the specific unit of my preference. One just has to plan ahead.

If you plan to put points into Interval, you need to make that decision quickly. But remember, once the points are in Interval they cannot be returned to your account or used for stays at HVC resorts. You will still have a short time to make that decision for the current "leftover" points.


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## heathpack (Feb 14, 2010)

mwwich said:


> We just purchased 2 1300 point weeks on the resale market in the $5K range/each...(granted, the MF's will be more).  But w/2600 points we'll get 2 vacations year...



Although this approach makes sense for you individually, for many people, buying a single higher-point value week would be better.

The first problem one may get in to with your approach is the possibility that one could buy two weeks which may be hard to use, especially if the purchases are bronze weeks and the family has kids in school.  Hyatt's point system is subject to change at Hyatt's discretion and if one doesn't own a week one can use, there may be no fallback position.  This gets glossed over much of the time in Hyatt posts, but this fact really does need to be kept in mind.

The second problem is the MF cost.  For most TS's, the MF's are by far the biggest piece of the financial pie.  For example, if you start with a $15,000 initial purchase of a diamond unit with a yearly MF of $950/year, you will pay a total of approx. $17,771 for MF over 15 years, assuming a conservative 3% annual increase and not considering any other fees.  Cost over 15 years for initial purchase and MF combined are around $32,000 are you are allotted 2200 HVC points/year.

If you buy 2 bronze weeks for $10,000, you will pay double MF over that same period of time, which brings you to a 15-year expense of around $45,000.  This expense difference will become more and more magnified over time.  In this example, at 20 years, the cost for the diamond week becomes approx $40,000 whereas the 2 bronze weeks are $61,000.

Now, granted, with the bronze weeks, you have had 2600 points per year for the entire time.  You probably thought this all through and decided that the extra expense would be worth it for the extra 400/year, especially since you have kids in school.  This may be the only way for you to wind up with 1 family vacation during a platninum week and 1 couple vacation during a bronze week.   But many people don't look seriously at the MF expense over time, so this is probably a good place to post this gentle reminder.

Congrats on your new Hyatt purchases-- I wish you many years of happy vacationing!

H


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## Kal (Feb 14, 2010)

heathpack said:


> ... For example, if you start with a $15,000 initial purchase of a diamond unit with a yearly MF of $950/year, you will pay a total of approx. $17,771 for MF over 15 years, assuming a conservative *3% annual increase* and not considering any other fees. Cost over 15 years for initial purchase and MF combined are around $32,000 are you are allotted 2200 HVC points/year...


 
I suggest 3% is unreasonably conservative.  You might want to run the numbers at 4.5 to 5% which is where Hyatt wants to be.

The key is, the MF for a person owning a single 2200 point week is $0.60 per point while a person owning two 1300 point weeks pays $1.00 per point.  The compounded growth factor really takes a toll over time.  But more importantly, the 2200 point owner is in the sweet spot of the points system in obtaining units during high season.


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## mwwich (Feb 14, 2010)

Kal said:


> The point that 1880 point weeks do not come available is not true. They are easy to get provided you plan ahead. I have gotten two 2000 point weeks each year at Sunset Harbor for the last 8 years without fail. Moreover, I get the specific unit of my preference. One just has to plan ahead.



Kal:

Are you talking about reserving an 1880 or 2000 point week with points in your account or buying a week of that many points on the resale market?  I was speaking of the original purchase, not the actual reservation.


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## Kal (Feb 14, 2010)

Hmmmm, yes, I was talking about the reservation process.  However, I do know owners who are selling 1880, 2000 and 2200 point weeks at Sunset Harbor.  One of my friends sold two 1880 point weeks for $13,500 but that market has softened since then.


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## mwwich (Feb 15, 2010)

Kal and Heathpack:

Thanks for the info you have provided, most of this I knew except for two points.  Kal's thoughts on Key West availability in November were a bit of a surprise, but we have options during that time of year via II.  My understanding is the Hyatt's will do well in II.  We like beachfront in Florida in a name brand unit, so that should give us enough flexibility to find something on shorter notice.  The resale availability of 1800+ units seem to be more available that what I found when looking.

We will be hamstrung a bit in year one since part of the year is by us before we closed, but we went through the same when purchasing our Marriott a few years ago and were able to utilize the TS with some flexibility, I'm sure this will be no different.

Again, thanks for the help; and sorry to "take over" the OP's thread....didn't mean to do that but the questions/info just kept flowing.


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