# Need help out of contract!



## johndg (Dec 2, 2011)

Just got talked into buying more points and changing locations under the pretence of eliminating maintenance fees forever at the end of 10 years.  After getting home and crunching numbers I'm going to cancel it.  Says in paperwork I have 10 days to do so but its not really clear on exactly what I have to send them.  Want to make sure I get it right.

They are supposed to call me any time now (to try to talk me into not canceling) and I'm going to ask them to help me with canceling correctly but I'm not sure if they will.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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## kaio (Dec 2, 2011)

johndg said:


> under the pretence of eliminating maintenance fees forever at the end of 10 years..



 ... well, I know others will chime in with better instructions on the rescinding process.  I just know, you need to postmark the letter/rescinding dox within the stated 10 days...  I would not even talk to Wyndham any further, but that is just me, but just follow the advise/instructions that is soon to come from TUG members.


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## Passepartout (Dec 2, 2011)

They will not 'help' you rescind. The instructions will be in the contract you signed- along with the address to send it to. Follow the instructions exactly. 

I'm sure others more familiar with Wyndham than I am will have more to say, but barring any more input, a simple letter saying that you want to exercise your right of rescission wish to cancel contract #xxxxx xxx dated x/11/2011. Send it off certified with delivery receipt required oughtta cover it. Most likely it won't be at the sales office address.

Expect the salesman to call to sweeten the deal. Fall for it at your peril. A common tactic it to delay you until you are past the rescission date. Beware of yow long you have. It depends on the state where the contract was signed. I just became aware of one- Massachusetts that only allows 3 days!

Good Luck- and welcome to TUG!

Jim Ricks


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## ronparise (Dec 2, 2011)

you dont need any help. just sent a letter postmarked before the deadline and send it to the address in your contract


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## DeniseM (Dec 2, 2011)

johndg said:


> They are supposed to call me any time now (to try to talk me into not canceling) and I'm going to ask them to help me with canceling correctly but I'm not sure if they will.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.



They will do everything in their power to keep you from rescinding - there is no point in talking to them - they are not on your side.

Rescinding is a do-it-yourself project - here is an article about rescinding.  It was written for a different resort, but everything else applies to you - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493


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## learnalot (Dec 2, 2011)

There will be a paragraph in your contract documents that details your rights of rescission, including the timeframe and the address and method by which you must give notification.  Meet those requirements and the contract will be cancelled.


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## johndg (Dec 2, 2011)

So here's the situation and they've made it sound like a good deal.  Need someone who sees through this to make me see where it isn't?  

Here is what was done.  Was at a "corporate site" Wyndham Great Smokies Lodge.  Had 1,000,000 points at Wyndham Smoky Mountain.  Sales lady came by room and said they could save me money on my loan with them.  Already in a substantial amount but that's water under the bridge and just have to deal with it.  Was interested in hearing due to possibly lower interest rate, which I was already looking for.
Redeeded to Lodge and added 308,000 points at 49,000 and put us in "Club Wyndham Coversion Program".  Program gives you guaranteed 50% cancel/rebook so in essence it doubles my points.  They take my maintenance fees out of these extra 1,000,000 points and at the end of 10 years (or at payoff time if paid early) I will never owe Wyndham anything again.  No more maintenance fees forever.  Paying the maintenance fees out of the points eliminates them and therefore reduces my present loan payment immediately.  In the big picture it looks like a good deal so naturally I'm trying to figure out the "catch".

Told them I could probably buy 1,000,000 points resale just by taking over the maintenance fees and I could basically do the same thing myself.  Their answer was I couldn't pay maintenance fees with resale points.  Don't know if that's true or not?  Can anyone here answer that for me?  

Asked them if it was such a great deal for me, what was in it for them?  Their answer was I was already platinum so I had lots of points, had good credit, and they wanted to keep me happy.  They know maintenance fees are a big issue for owners and this was a new program to address those fees.

So what does everyone think?


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## theo (Dec 2, 2011)

*Exactamundo...*



learnalot said:


> There will be a paragraph in your contract documents that details your rights of rescission, including the timeframe and the address and method by which you must give notification.  Meet those requirements and the contract will be cancelled.



Precisely correct and very well said ---although the rescission rights and procedures might actually be on a _separate_ document from the actual sales contract. In any case, the instructions *must* be provided in writing, as required by law. 

With all due respect to Denise's posted link, a developer contract rescission period is determined *soley* by state law (i.e., the state in which the timeshare contract was actually executed). No resort can ever independently identify "its' own" rescission period; the underlying state law always prevails.


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## DeniseM (Dec 2, 2011)

Theo - I agree, and I didn't mean to give the impression otherwise.  Which statement is confusing?


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## theo (Dec 2, 2011)

*My $0.02 worth...*



DeniseM said:


> Theo - I agree, and I didn't mean to give the impression otherwise.  Which statement is confusing?



The "linked" post lists a number of individual resorts and their cancellation periods, but without inclusion of any reference to their respective locations / states. 

I just thought (...and still do) that *perhaps* someone *might* erroneously interpret that list as implying that individual resorts can or do identify their own individual cancellation periods, which (as we agree) is simply not the case.


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## DeniseM (Dec 2, 2011)

I see what you are saying.  I wrote that article for Starwood resorts, and it is posted on the Starwood forum, so the rescission periods are listed by Starwood resort.  However, we don't have anything more universal, so I still refer other owners to it. 

I haven't written anything more universal, because I don't feel qualified to do so.


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## theo (Dec 2, 2011)

*No omniscience to be found ANYWHERE...*



DeniseM said:


> I see what you are saying.  I wrote that article for Starwood resorts, and it is posted on the Starwood forum, so the rescission periods are listed by Starwood resort.  However, we don't have anything more universal, so I still refer other owners to it.
> 
> I haven't written anything more universal, because I don't feel qualified to do so.



Completely understandable --- who would? Who could possibly profess to know (and / or keep current) the rescission periods for all 50 states?  

I personally know of *maybe* a half dozen, at most, just from their being oddly brief (Massachusetts being only 3 days) or oddly long (Alaska being 15 days) or just simply repeated over and over again (e.g., Florida is 10 days). I'm told that in most states, it's 5-7 days, although some states apparently use calendar days, while others track and count "business" days.  

I suppose that good "universal" advice on the matter would simply be to "find the cancellation / rescission instructions located within (or accompanying) your developer-direct sales contract documents; state law requires that info be provided to you in writing upon contract execution. Follow those instructions precisely and promptly". Safe enough, I would think...


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## DeniseM (Dec 2, 2011)

I agree that it's really quite simple, but people seem to feel intimidated, and possibly guilty about rescinding, so I wrote that with lots of "extra" info. so they would know that it is OK to rescind, and also, to try to answer many of the questions that are usually asked.


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## rrlongwell (Dec 2, 2011)

johndg said:


> ... Sales lady came by room and said they could save me money on my loan with them ... Redeeded to Lodge and added 308,000 points at 49,000 and put us in "Club Wyndham Coversion Program".  Program gives you guaranteed 50% cancel/rebook so in essence it doubles my points.  They take my maintenance fees out of these extra 1,000,000 points and at the end of 10 years (or at payoff time if paid early) I will never owe Wyndham anything again.  No more maintenance fees forever.  Paying the maintenance fees out of the points eliminates them and therefore reduces my present loan payment immediately ... They know maintenance fees are a big issue for owners and this was a new program to address those fees ...



Talked with Guy Devoy Sales Manager according to the front desk, (spelling of last name may not be correct because he does not where a name tag).  He said he has heard of the Club Wyndham Conversion Program but he declined to provide a description or details of it.

As it relates to the a guaranteed 50% cancel/re-book.  I am not sure what is being refered to.  However, I am guessing it is some verison of book at full point rate (over 60 days out) then cancel and re-book under 60 days.  This is not an uncommon sales pitch at a number of locations (in my experience).  If that is what this is, you can loss your orginal reservation when trying to convert it to the 50% leval.  It is also based on the availability within the 60 day window.

My guess is the "Conversion Program" is nothing more than the giving back of points for some  credit for maintance fees.  I am not aware of any such program for loans.  If this is what the program is, last checked, the conversion rate was very very low.  The rates for the program and the terms of the program can be found on the Wyndham site.


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 2, 2011)

johndg said:


> So here's the situation and they've made it sound like a good deal.  Need someone who sees through this to make me see where it isn't?


  Oh boy!  I fear you have been taken for a royal ride.  There is no easy quick way to own Wyndham points and be free of maintenance fees.  Maintenance fees are paid to the resort (usually through Wyndham) to cover the upkeep and operation of the physical resort.  But you already know this.  Somebody has to pay them or the building will begin to stink and fall down.  The Wyndham program fee has to be paid or we can't use our points to go to different resorts.  There's no magic way to get around these fees.  It is possible to do some real work and reserve a week here or there in prime time and find a renter to pay for some of your fees.  It is possible to convert some of your points into Wyndham rewards points and then use those to further convert into "maintenance dollars", but the conversion factor really stinks.  The example in our Member Directory on page 327 shows 105,000 points converting to $220.50 in maintenance dollars.  If your maintenance fees are only $4 per 1000 points, this conversion will only pay slightly more than half your fees!





> Here is what was done.  Was at a "corporate site" Wyndham Great Smokies Lodge.  Had 1,000,000 points at Wyndham Smoky Mountain.


They might call it a "corporate site", but it was still just a sales office.





> Sales lady came by room and said they could save me money on my loan with them.  Already in a substantial amount but that's water under the bridge and just have to deal with it.  Was interested in hearing due to possibly lower interest rate, which I was already looking for.


Sure, they are going to save you money by making you spend even more money.  Makes perfect sense...right?  *Bottom line, was your debt related to Wyndham combined and do you now have a lower interest rate?*  Did they also sucker you in to hopping from credit card to credit card to take advantage of low intro rates?  That's another of their tricks that have hurt people.  





> Redeeded to Lodge and added 308,000 points at 49,000 and put us in "Club Wyndham Coversion Program".  Program gives you guaranteed 50% cancel/rebook so in essence it doubles my points.


This sounds like gibberish.  I have never heard of Club Wyndham Conversion Program.  It's not in the Member Directory.  Is it in your new contract?  You own what it says in the contract by the way.

So you now have 1,308,000 points?  That means you are Platinum VIP and everyone who is platinum with at least 1M points can get 50% discount within 60 days of check in date.  Didn't you have that already with your 1M Smoky Mt points - or were they resale points? 

You new contract has you paying maintenance fees on 308K more points and you are $49,000 deeper in the hole.  Are you really saving money here?


> They take my maintenance fees out of these extra 1,000,000 points and at the end of 10 years (or at payoff time if paid early) I will never owe Wyndham anything again.  No more maintenance fees forever.  Paying the maintenance fees out of the points eliminates them and therefore reduces my present loan payment immediately.  In the big picture it looks like a good deal so naturally I'm trying to figure out the "catch".


How are they going to accomplish this taking of the fees from these points?  Which "extra" million points?  You said you had a million to begin with?  Are you setting aside the million for fee defrayment and just vacationing with the 308K you increased?  Is your personal Count on Me representative going to do this magic for you?  Is there language in your contract outlining how this is to be accomplished?  How are these maintenance fees going to be paid then?  You signed this big money contract without understanding exactly how it was going to work?  

Please don't feel too bad, there are a lot of us that have been taken down this road before you.



> Told them I could probably buy 1,000,000 points resale just by taking over the maintenance fees and I could basically do the same thing myself.  Their answer was I couldn't pay maintenance fees with resale points.  Don't know if that's true or not?  Can anyone here answer that for me?


There is no restriction as to kind of points can be converted in the Members Directory.  They do usually put it in there when resale points can't be used for other things; so I can't know for sure either.  I believe there is a large fee to convert points and there may also be a restriction of only doing it every other year, but those things are not in the Directory either.





> Asked them if it was such a great deal for me, what was in it for them?  Their answer was I was already platinum so I had lots of points, had good credit, and they wanted to keep me happy.  They know maintenance fees are a big issue for owners and this was a new program to address those fees.
> 
> So what does everyone think?


What is in it for them is they got you to buy more points!  They got your commitment in writing to pay them $49,000.  I'd say they did pretty darn well.  You are sitting with an expensive contract that you don't understand.  I sure hope you can get this thing rescinded.


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## johndg (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks Cheryl20772 and Rrlongwell for the last 2 posts.  Have been on here reading different threads for the last 3 hours.  Will definitely be sending out cancellation letter tomorrow.  Will be post marked within the 10 day window stated.  Found a couple of other threads related to this sales pitch so that helped also.  The pitch about the 60 day cancel/rebook was that it was guaranteed, there was to be no chance of losing the booking.  That was their way of generating the extra 1,000,000 points to effectively pay the maintenance fees.  I've done this a couple of times with success but was afraid to try it last week.  Was at Gatlinburg for Thanksgiving weekend/black friday shopping.  Had 4 rooms, 3 of which I booked this time last year and was afraid to cancel/rebook cause there had been absolutely nothing open during the entire window.

This is a great site.  I wish I had been reading/studying it before I went because I should have expected some kind of sales pitch while I was there.  One of the ways they caught me off guard was she stopped by Saturday morning and asked if I received refinance package they sent last week.  Said they could reduce my interest rate on my loan by half. ("probably will be there when you get home" she said). Said she would have everything together later that afternoon to go over with me.  Called in the afternoon and said computers were down so we had to go in Sunday morning as we were checking out.  Should have known better then.


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## kalua (Dec 3, 2011)

*need help out of contract*

i don't mean to labor the point but ,your first indicator should have been them coming by your room to help,the only way a salesperson is going to help you, is out of your money,the first thing that jumped out at me is if you have 1,000,000 points, with a 50% discount at 60 days,how does that come out to be an extra 1,000,000 point's,50% would be 500,000 therefore would be 1,500,000 , the best thing to do is as has been suggested ,write a simple letter saying i don't want it cancel this contract now keep it simple so they can understand it, send it to financial services in vegas ,that is where the contract goes,it is in your instructions. do it yesterday rescind IMHO


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## simpsontruckdriver (Dec 3, 2011)

johndg said:


> Was at a "corporate site" Wyndham Great Smokies Lodge.



The Wyndham corporate site (hotels and timeshares) is in NJ, but the Wyndham Timeshare's corporate office (and call center) is in Orlando Florida. I guess the author meant to say this was at a Wyndham-owned-and-managed resort. Some resorts, like Star Island (Kissimmee FL), are not managed by Wyndham.

TS


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## learnalot (Dec 3, 2011)

kalua said:


> i don't mean to labor the point but ,your first indicator should have been them coming by your room to help,the only way a salesperson is going to help you, is out of your money,the first thing that jumped out at me is if you have 1,000,000 points, with a 50% discount at 60 days,how does that come out to be an extra 1,000,000 point's,50% would be 500,000 therefore would be 1,500,000 , the best thing to do is as has been suggested ,write a simple letter saying i don't want it cancel this contract now keep it simple so they can understand it, send it to financial services in vegas ,that is where the contract goes,it is in your instructions. do it yesterday rescind IMHO



Kalua is correct that they will say anything to get you to buy.  As to the math Kalua, if something costs half the price, your money (or points) will go twice as far.  But since everything hinges on availability, it may not always work out that way.

To the OP, I must respectfully tell you to disregard Kalua's instructions to send the rescission notice to Vegas.  That IS where their finamcial services department is located, but the key point with rescission is that you must follow the instructions in YOUR contract documents precisely.  If the rescission paragraph says to send the notice to Vegas, fine.  But if it says to send it to Alice in Wonderland, you must do so at the address they indicate.  If they indicate a specific method of delivery (such as certified mail, for example), honor that as well.  If no delivery method is specified, I would use a method that gives you proof of mailing.


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## learnalot (Dec 3, 2011)

simpsontruckdriver said:


> The Wyndham corporate site (hotels and timeshares) is in NJ, but the Wyndham Timeshare's corporate office (and call center) is in Orlando Florida. I guess the author meant to say this was at a Wyndham-owned-and-managed resort. Some resorts, like Star Island (Kissimmee FL), are not managed by Wyndham.
> 
> TS



I think the author was just repeating what sales told them and I think sales meant to say exactly what they said, muttering an important sounding but completely irrelevant phrase - Corporate location - which suggests to the buyer that they are in a special location and thus subject to better offers than they would be able to receive elsewhere.  Sales hogwash tried and true.


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 3, 2011)

learnalot said:


> I think the author was just repeating what sales told them and I think sales meant to say exactly what they said, muttering an important sounding but completely irrelevant phrase - Corporate location - which suggests to the buyer that they are in a special location and thus subject to better offers than they would be able to receive elsewhere.  Sales hogwash tried and true.



Yes, since he owned 1M points already, they may have thought he knows that some special deals are only available through the Corporate offices.  It is possible to buy foreclosures at reduced price that way.  I don't know what other things they do, but, as you say, this is a common puffed up language used by the sales weasels.  They want you to think how lucky you are to be in this perfect place at this time, for this one time only deal, with the only magician able to work it for you - your eyes glaze over - you forget all the needed questions - suspend reality and sign on the line.  When else in life would a rational person ever commit to such a large purchase totally unplanned and unresearched?


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## teepeeca (Dec 3, 2011)

*timeframe for cancellation*

A "10 day" cancellation timeframe was stated.  It depends upon the state/resort where the contract was signed, as to what the cancellation period might be.  I'm "SURE" that the salesperson was telling the truth about the cancellation timeframe (as a general rule, 10 days is the maximum time allowed for cancellation---one state that I know of has a 15 day period) BUT---what happens if it is only 3 or 5 days???  PLEASE get the cancellation/rescission letter in teh mail TODAY !!!

Tony


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## ronparise (Dec 3, 2011)

theo said:


> Precisely correct and very well said ---although the rescission rights and procedures might actually be on a _separate_ document from the actual sales contract. In any case, the instructions *must* be provided in writing, as required by law.
> 
> With all due respect to Denise's posted link, a developer contract rescission period is determined *soley* by state law (i.e., the state in which the timeshare contract was actually executed). No resort can ever independently identify "its' own" rescission period; the underlying state law always prevails.



Of course a resort or developer can state their own rescission period as long as  its a longer period of time than whats required in the law


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## johndg (Dec 3, 2011)

Everything I could find in any of the paperwork said it was 10 days postmarked and was to go to Las Vegas.  Saw that in 2 different places and nothing otherwise about a shorter time period.  Put letter in the mail today stating "....exercise our right to cancel our contract to purchase at Great Smokies Lodge.  Contract # XXXXXXX dated XX-XX-XX.  Both names typed and signed.  Included copies of "deedback control sheet" and "purchase agreement".  Couldn't find anything actually requiring more than the cancellation letter.  Didn't know anywhere I could send it certified so am going to send the same thing Monday from the post office certified.  Both will be postmarked within the 10 time period.  If anyone knows anything else I should do or has any other suggestions they would be appreciated.  Thanks to all for your help and I will let you know when I hear back on it.


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## learnalot (Dec 3, 2011)

johndg said:


> Everything I could find in any of the paperwork said it was 10 days postmarked and was to go to Las Vegas.  Saw that in 2 different places and nothing otherwise about a shorter time period.  Put letter in the mail today stating "....exercise our right to cancel our contract to purchase at Great Smokies Lodge.  Contract # XXXXXXX dated XX-XX-XX.  Both names typed and signed.  Included copies of "deedback control sheet" and "purchase agreement".  Couldn't find anything actually requiring more than  the cancellation letter.  Didn't know anywhere I could send it certified so am going to send the same thing Monday from the post office certified.  Both will be postmarked within the 10 time period.  If anyone knows anything else I should do or has any other suggestions they would be appreciated.  Thanks to all for your help and I will let you know when I hear back on it.



You should be good to go.  Good job!  (If your contract documents said to send the rescission notice to Vegas then that is where it needed to go.  I just wanted you to make  sure you checked your OWN documents as opposed to sending it to Vegas because that's where someone else had to send theirs.


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## ronparise (Dec 3, 2011)

My experience with the Wyndham Department that handles  rescissions (in Vegas) is that they are easy to deal with. I sent an email and that was enough. (I followed the email with a letter but they had already started the process without it). They did not try to "save" the sale. They simply processed the paperwork and sent us our deposit back. It didnt take much more time then it took my check to clear. Their job it seems to me is to protect the company from their sales staff.

Regarding the "pitch" reported by the op:

This is essentially what I heard at a recent presentation at National Harbor. The salesman said that most of his customers were VIP and didnt pay any maintenance fees, by: 1) using the Barclays credit card for all their routine expenses, groceries, cable bill, etc etc,. to earn Wyndhan rewards points s 2) refer friends and family to Wyndham to earn more Wyndham rewards points and 3) convert points to rewards points. All these rewards points can be converted at the rate of 10000 rewards points to $60 of maintenance fees.

This technique works best (according to the salesman)  if you are Platinum VIP because the 50% discount in the express reservation window gives you the use of twice as many points as you own. So you use half your points for your vacations and the other half to exchange for the rewards points.

My response...its fuzzy math.  

my maintenance fees on the 600000 points I own is about $3000 a year.....If I was to buy another 1000000 points at National Harbor my additional fees would be about $3500 So now Id have  1600000 points and $6500 a year in fees maintenance.......Now Im currently using 600000 points If I was platinum VIP and used the 50% discount I only need  300000 for my own use, and Id have 1300000 points to convert to rewards points which convert to dollars. If my math is right it would be just over $3100....I dont have any friends, so I cant earn anything by refering them to Wyndham so I have to make up the rest with a Barclays card  Every dollar charged gets you 2 rewards points and 10000 rewards points gets you $60 . I figure I need to charge $300000 to earn $3600 toward my maintenance.

So now Ive got it.. I can not pay maintenance fees on my 600000 points by buying 1000000 more points and charging $25000 a month on my new credit card

Several problems here 1) no bank will give me a credit card with a $25000 limit and even if they did I dont spend that much in a year let alone in a month and 2) he quoted me a price of $220 per 1000 for the new points, or $220000.    I dont have $220000 and even if I did it dosent make sense to spend $220000 to save $3500 a year...for those that have stuck with me so far, thats a 1.5% return....If I had $220000 why wouldnt I just buy a good muni bond fund and pay my maintenance fees with the interest earned

What ended the presentation is when I told him I paid $500 for my 600000 points and used 252000 of them to make 2 Mardi Gras reservations and collected enough rent to pay all my maintenance fees. leaving 324000 maintenance fee free points for my own use ...I like my strategy better than his


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## ronparise (Dec 3, 2011)

Cheryl20772 said:


> Yes, since he owned 1M points already, they may have thought he knows that some special deals are only available through the Corporate offices.  It is possible to buy foreclosures at reduced price that way.  I don't know what other things they do, but, as you say, this is a common puffed up language used by the sales weasels.  They want you to think how lucky you are to be in this perfect place at this time, for this one time only deal, with the only magician able to work it for you - your eyes glaze over - you forget all the needed questions - suspend reality and sign on the line.  When else in life would a rational person ever commit to such a large purchase totally unplanned and unresearched?



I was offered over 900000 points by a corporate saleswoman at less $50000. This was a contract that Wyndham took back either in foreclosure, a simple deed back, perhaps from an estate. I was to pay the back maintenance fees owed, and pick up payments where the last guy stopped. These points were VIP eligible, but I couldnt use this deal to PIC in anything I might already own

This same saleswoman also offered me a 126000 point contract at the regular price less what she called a significant discount at $12000. and PIC in 2 fixed weeks into Wyndham to go VIP gold

This is also the group that has been calling fixed weeks owners at Dolphins Cove offering a no cost trade into Club Wyndham Access.

She is also the one that told me in no uncertain terms that I could  convert my fixed weeks (purchased resale) with her, but they would not be VIP eligible

She said she can sell me points from across the entire Wyndham system


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## rrlongwell (Dec 3, 2011)

ronparise said:


> ... This same saleswoman also offered me a 126000 point contract at the regular price less what she called a significant discount at $12000. and PIC in 2 fixed weeks into Wyndham to go VIP gold ... She is also the one that told me in no uncertain terms that I could  convert my fixed weeks (purchased resale) with her, but they would not be VIP eligible.



On the point that she could see points anywhere across the Wyndham System, I would be curious on how she can do that in states that require a License to sell Timeshares.

On the fixed weeks to converted fixed weeks, it might be worth a complaint with the Central Floridia BBB for not permitting what appears to be permitted under the Member's Director (pg 287 top of columne combined with the defenition of ownership interest that appears in the glossery.  I do not have any unconverted fixed weeks in my inventory.  The Central Flordia BBB are good people, they were instramental in resolving a number of issues with Wyndham involving ownership rights.


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## kalua (Dec 3, 2011)

*need help out of contract*

johndg ; when I canceled a contract 3 years ago the financial center was and still in Vegas as of last month, i also sent letters to orlando,and to the timeshare salespeople i signed with,because nothing in the contract was clear ,sent them us postal return receipt, and then called financial service and told them I had sent it which i only had a couple of days to get it mailed that way they had to acknowledge that they knew i had canceled hope this helps you should be ok.


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## ronparise (Dec 4, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> On the point that she could see points anywhere across the Wyndham System, I would be curious on how she can do that in states that require a License to sell Timeshares.
> 
> On the fixed weeks to converted fixed weeks, it might be worth a complaint with the Central Floridia BBB for not permitting what appears to be permitted under the Member's Director (pg 287 top of columne combined with the defenition of ownership interest that appears in the glossery.  I do not have any unconverted fixed weeks in my inventory.  The Central Flordia BBB are good people, they were instramental in resolving a number of issues with Wyndham involving ownership rights.



I said she can see across the system, I dont know that she can "sell" across the system but she can certainly refer me to the person in the system that is licensed to do it....However I dont think a Wyndham employee needs a license to sell their own real estate any more than you need a license to sell what you own.

regarding my fixed weeks; They were purchased on the secondary market and according to the paragraph you quote, any points resulting from a conversion wouldnt qualify for VIP as my ownership interest was not purchased directly from Wyndham

It doesnt matter how the points were obtained. The points are merely symbolic of an ownership interest...iWhat matters is how the underlying ownership interest was obtained

I wish you were right on this but you are not


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## glypnirsgirl (Dec 4, 2011)

ronparise said:


> My response...its fuzzy math.  ...
> 
> So now Ive got it.. I can not pay maintenance fees on my 600000 points by buying 1000000 more points and charging $25000 a month on my new credit card
> 
> ...



This post made me laugh! I bet this salesman thought that he had run into a buzzsaw. 

So few people stop to run numbers, it is amazing to me that you not only run them, you are willing to share.

Thanks!
elaine


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## ronparise (Dec 4, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> This post made me laugh! I bet this salesman thought that he had run into a buzzsaw.
> 
> So few people stop to run numbers, it is amazing to me that you not only run them, you are willing to share.
> 
> ...



Ive been a salesman over 50 years, since I sold my home delivery service of the Washington Post door to door...the ultimate in cold calling

I have learned over the years, that a decision to buy something is very often an emotional one, justified by a, "by the numbers", analysis..... "isnt that car pretty'' first and "it gets 30 miles to the gallon" next. Some people (me for example) start with the numbers and then let their emotions come forward,  before they do a deal. It really dosent matter which comes first but a good salesman will appeal to both sides of your brain. They want you to feel good and think about it before they close

Timeshare salesmen and con men generally generally, do their best to end their presentation and make the sale based strictly on emotions. "How does it feel"  They wont let you think about it

Im no buzzsaw, but I do demand the time to think...(and I think with a yellow pad and a calculator) I guess that makes me a timeshare salesmans worst nightmare


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## theo (Dec 4, 2011)

*Obviously, but...*



ronparise said:


> Of course a resort or developer can state their own rescission period as long as  its a longer period of time than whats required in the law



Of course.... but as has been openly and frequently observed in many other same-subject posts, there are *no* reports of *any* facility in the U.S.A. choosing to exceed the rescission period required by their state law.

Some resorts include the (legally required) rescission rights info and instructions making no overt reference to the existence of a law *requiring* them to do so. On the contrary, some even phrase the cancellation information in such a way as to suggest or imply that the rescission opportunity is some sort of *voluntary* act of benevolence on their part. It's certainly neither voluntary nor benevolent --- *it's the law*!


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## theo (Dec 5, 2011)

*Important and well worth repeating...*



learnalot said:


> I must respectfully tell you to disregard Kalua's instructions to send the rescission notice to Vegas.  That IS where their finamcial services department is located, but *the key point with rescission is that you must follow the instructions in YOUR contract documents precisely*.



Excellent advice this, to use and follow *exactly* the rescission instructions and address, which must be spelled out, in detail, within (or accompanying) your sales contract documents --- as required by state law.

If the instructions specifically identify the use of USPS certified mail, for example, that does *not* mean that emails, phone calls, FedEx, smoke signals, UPS, carrier pigeon or mental telepathy are acceptable instead. 
Postmark on cancellation notification with a date after the deadline is equally fatal to effective rescission.


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## johndg (Dec 5, 2011)

I guess I'm okay.  Time will tell.  Sent letter out regular mail Saturday to Las Vegas.  Found financial services number today and called them also.  Lady told me I could send by mail or I could fax letter.  Said all I had to send was letter stating we wanted to cancel and the contract number, etc...  She gave me the fax number and was very polite, didn't ask why or anything, told me I would get paperwork back when it was processed.  I faxed the letter and then also sent it out again certified mail from the post office as backup.

Sales person sent me a text message 2-3 hours later saying she got the letter, with a  after, and if there was anything she could do to help us in the future call her.  No phone call trying to get us to change our mind or anything....yet.  If this in fact does take care of it then it was actually a pretty easy process.

Thanks again to all for your help and I intend to become more educated and contributing member of this board in the future.


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## fishingguy (Dec 5, 2011)

*you are right*

johndg wrote:


> Was at Gatlinburg for Thanksgiving weekend/black friday shopping. Had 4 rooms, 3 of which I booked this time last year and was afraid to cancel/rebook cause there had been absolutely nothing open during the entire window.



This is typical for the GSMNP area and not only for Wyndham but all 4 and 5* resorts.  You need to book about a year early to get into anything other than a studio at one of these resorts; from the start of foliage season to Thanksgiving.  ...they go fast, I've sniped a cancellation or two for a week with an ongoing RCI search; but you just can't count on it.


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