# [2014] Most plausible explanation of mystery of Malasyian Flight 370



## Clemson Fan

This makes the most sense to me.

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Clemson Fan said:


> This makes the most sense to me.
> 
> https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04


It only makes sense if you select the data that supports that notion and ignore contradictory data.  

Since I don't have access to the primary information I can only go by what has been published in news accounts. From that information, the problems that immediately come to my mind are that based on the available information the plane was not making a bee-line for that airport. Instead it was professionally navigated between known checkpoints on known air traffic corridors - for as long as primary tracking data is available it was following established navigation pathways. 

The second problem is that INMARSAT satellite data puts it on one of the two flight paths that are the primary areas of focus.  The data can't tell which of the two courses it was on, but based on the data that does indicate which that indicates satellite orientation needed to point the antenna to get a better signal, it narrows the flight path down to one of the two corridors for at least as long as tracking data.

****

It doesn't appear to me that the option laid out is being ignored because it is too simple. It's not being considered because it doesn't square with what is known about the flight path.   In fact, I suspect that for the first couple of days, Malaysian officials were wish-casting that something like that is what actually happened.  I think they started to come clean and ask for more international help only after it became that clear that none of the simple explanations such as th is worked.

Occam's Razor says that we should always prefer the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions and extrapolations.  But it does require that we consider all of the data, not just the data that supports the simple explanation.


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## Clemson Fan

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Occam's Razor says that we should always prefer the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions and extrapolations.  But it does require that we consider all of the data, not just the data that supports the simple explanation.



This is exactly why I think this theory makes the most sense. I think one of the reasons it's not being highlighted is because it's not sensationalistic and it doesn't offer any hope because probably within 15 minutes of whatever occurred probably everybody on that plane was already dead.  When you're at altitude and your oxygen supply goes away or if all you have to breath is smoke you'll pass out very quickly and die soon thereafter.  There was a golfer, Payne Stewart, who died along with everybody else on his private plane when they lost cabin pressure at altitude. His plane flew for hours silently until it ran out of fuel.

With a hijacking at least there's hope that the passengers are still alive.  

I realize it's just a theory and we won't know what hapenned until the plane is found and if it's not found soon we'll probably never know what hapenned.  This theory just makes more sense to me then a hijacking or terrorism or suicide which in their own ways don't make much sense.  Maybe like the TV series Lost, they crashed on some remote magical island?

If the plane is deep within the southern Indian Ocean like I think it may be, I doubt it will ever be found.  Probably years from now we'll see a story of some debris from the plane washing up on some shore. 

This mystery will create some wonderful conspiracy theories and rumors for years to come.


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## ace2000

I read a intriguing article about it yesterday.  A couple of noteworthy events were reported.  

His wife and three children moved out of the house just one day before the incident.  

And then there's the connection he had with the country's primary opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim - jailed for homosexuality just hours before the jet disappeared.  And hours before his flight left Kuala Lumpur it is understood that the pilot attended a controversial trial in which Ibrahim was jailed for five years.

Could be factors?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html


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## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> This makes the most sense to me.
> 
> https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04



Disagree completely with this Goodfellow's theory. Not even close, imho. 

Pilot hijacked the aircraft, possibly with the aide of the copilot.. My theory is he landed it, intact, at one of the hundreds of abandoned airstrips within range. Why? Not a clue.


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## pedro47

Phydeaux said:


> Disagree completely with this Goodfellow's theory. Not even close, imho.
> 
> Pilot hijacked the aircraft, possibly with the aide of the copilot.. My theory is he landed it, intact, at one of the hundreds of abandoned airstrips within range. Why? Not a clue.



I also agree with this theory. There are so many abandoned airstrips in the area.


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## Phydeaux

Apparently Goodfellow missed the part that systematically, and in a logical order:

The transponder was disabled.
ACARS was disabled.
Communications were ceased.

All while the aircraft was being flown, given data being transmitted by the engines.

The jet was also "terrain hugging". Flying low altitude, and following landscapes as to evade ground radar, for hours. A very skilled pilot was in the left seat.


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## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Disagree completely with this Goodfellow's theory. Not even close, imho.
> 
> Pilot hijacked the aircraft, possibly with the aide of the copilot.. My theory is he landed it, intact, at one of the hundreds of abandoned airstrips within range. Why? Not a clue.



No offense, but this is crazy talk.  How would they keep over 200 people silent?  Nobody on that airplane tried to get a message out with their phones or anything?  Why no terrorist or hijacking demands?  When the 9/11 planes were hijacked there were hundreds if not thousands of instances where the passengers communicated with loved ones.

IMO, it's much more plausible that there was a catastrophic event and everybody on that plane died in relatively short order.  The plane then stabilized itself like it's built to do and then flew on silently in a straight line until it ran out of fuel and dropped into the ocean.


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## GregT

This is a truly bizarre circumstance.

I agree with Clemson that the idea raised by Goodfellow is plausible -- and makes the most sense of what could have happened.   Emergency on-board, pilot heads to closest large runway, everyone loses consciousness and plane flies on until out of fuel.

However, as plausible as this might be, it is still contradicted by the other data presented (of unknown accuracy) about the change in elevation, flying low to the ground, and when transponders/other were disabled.  

Who knows what really happened, and I still have a hard time believing both pilots conspired to hijack the plane, and were able to complete the maneuver and make a jet near the size of football field vanish.  Truly bizarre.

I do agree that we will hear conspiracy theories for quite awhile on this one.

Thanks for posting the Goodfellow link, interesting to see.

Best,

Greg


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## ace2000

Clemson Fan said:


> No offense, but this is crazy talk. How would they keep over 200 people silent? Nobody on that airplane tried to get a message out with their phones or anything? Why no terrorist or hijacking demands?


 
I think it's possible that the original intent was to hijack it by the pilot and then for some reason the hijacking went bad and crashed into the sea. I agree, if it was successful, surely there would be some kind of public demands or at the least, some group taking credit for it.


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## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Apparently Goodfellow missed the part that systematically, and in a logical order:
> 
> The transponder was disabled.
> ACARS was disabled.
> Communications were ceased.
> 
> All while the aircraft was being flown, given data being transmitted by the engines.
> 
> The jet was also "terrain hugging". Flying low altitude, and following landscapes as to evade ground radar, for hours. A very skilled pilot was in the left seat.



There's no evidence that the jet was "terrain hugging" and following the landscape.  There's little to no evidence about how the plane was flown because the transponder and ACARS were disabled and the plane "disappeared" and went silent.  In fact, the tertiary system that was doing a periodic "handshake" with the satellite makes it look like the plane just flew in a straight line for 7 hours.

A catastrophic event like an electrical fire makes the most sense IMO.  It would lead the pilots to immediately shut down all the electrical systems in a systematic order to try and isolate and control the fire.  This would disable the transponder, ACARS and communications.  They would then make an immediate turn to try and make a b line to the nearest landable airstrip.  However, they weren't able to save the situation and they, as well as everybody else on board, we're overcome with smoke or loss of cabin pressure and probably died within 10-20 minutes of the event.  If a jet cabin depressurizes at 30k+ feet any human will pass out within 90 seconds.  Most of the passengers were probably sleeping since it was around 1:30 am and they probably just died in their sleep.  The jet then stabilized itself like it's built to do and then flew in complete and utter silence with everybody dead for 7 hours until the fuel ran out and it dropped into the ocean.

That scenario IMO logically answers the questions we have about the flight.  Things like terrorism, suicide, hijacking, a meteor just raise more unanswerable questions then they answer which is why I don't believe them.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Clemson Fan said:


> This is exactly why I think this theory makes the most sense. I think one of the reasons it's not being highlighted is because it's not sensationalistic and it doesn't offer any hope because probably within 15 minutes of whatever occurred probably everybody on that plane was already dead.  When you're at altitude and your oxygen supply goes away or if all you have to breath is smoke you'll pass out very quickly and die soon thereafter.  There was a golfer, Payne Stewart, who died along with everybody else on his private plane when they lost cabin pressure at altitude. His plane flew for hours silently until it ran out of fuel.
> 
> With a hijacking at least there's hope that the passengers are still alive.
> 
> I realize it's just a theory and we won't know what hapenned until the plane is found and if it's not found soon we'll probably never know what hapenned.  This theory just makes more sense to me then a hijacking or terrorism or suicide which in their own ways don't make much sense.  Maybe like the TV series Lost, they crashed on some remote magical island?
> 
> If the plane is deep within the southern Indian Ocean like I think it may be, I doubt it will ever be found.  Probably years from now we'll see a story of some debris from the plane washing up on some shore.
> 
> This mystery will create some wonderful conspiracy theories and rumors for years to come.


Occam's Razor also requires that the theory be consistent with the evidence.  And the available is that the plane wasn't being piloted in a manner consistent with heading to the nearest reasonable emergency landing field.


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## Clemson Fan

ace2000 said:


> I think it's possible that the original intent was to hijack it by the pilot and then for some reason the hijacking went bad and crashed into the sea. I agree, if it was successful, surely there would be some kind of public demands or at the least, some group taking credit for it.



Some of the very little evidence that we do have is that it appears the jet flew in a straight line for 7 hours after whatever event took place.  How do you keep over 200 people completely silent for nearly 7 hours and why keep on flying the plane for 7 hours?


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## SMHarman

Phydeaux said:


> Apparently Goodfellow missed the part that systematically, and in a logical order:
> 
> The transponder was disabled.
> ACARS was disabled.
> Communications were ceased.
> 
> All while the aircraft was being flown, given data being transmitted by the engines.
> 
> The jet was also "terrain hugging". Flying low altitude, and following landscapes as to evade ground radar, for hours. A very skilled pilot was in the left seat.


FL20 or so is not terrain hugging, it is 3 miles up in the sky.

Evading ground radar, maybe, by flying a path right down the center of the water between the two countries, but then it flew over the top of Penang which blows that point of evading radar out of the water.



Clemson Fan said:


> No offense, but this is crazy talk.  How would they keep over 200 people silent?  Nobody on that airplane tried to get a message out with their phones or anything?  Why no terrorist or hijacking demands?  When the 9/11 planes were hijacked there were hundreds if not thousands of instances where the passengers communicated with loved ones.
> 
> IMO, it's much more plausible that there was a catastrophic event and everybody on that plane died in relatively short order.  The plane then stabilized itself like it's built to do and then flew on silently in a straight line until it ran out of fuel and dropped into the ocean.


How to keep 200 people silent.  Potentially by turning off the cabin pressurisation system, taking the plane up to FL45 and asphyiating them all while using the pilots tank of oxygen on the flightdeck.  That does not silence their phones though unless they were all truly well behaved and all remembered to turn all devices to flight mode.

Flying down at FL20 when most airlines are trying to keep their planes higher in the thinner air to save fuel also reduces the risk of a collision when flying without communication to ATC.

The first turn was programmed into the FMS which is a pretty technical step, you need to know the name of the next waypoint and how to plug that in and set it.

I read another theory that the plan then turned and shadowed a europe bound SG or KLM flight to hide in the radar signature of that plane until it could peel off to the final destination.

I'm of the theory that some of the above happened then the pilot ran out of air before he repressurised the cabin and asphyiated himself and then the plane carried on cruising until it ran out of fuel.


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## Clemson Fan

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Occam's Razor also requires that the theory be consistent with the evidence.  And the available is that the plane wasn't being piloted in a manner consistent with heading to the nearest reasonable emergency landing field.



What if the pilots and everybody else on board died within 10-20 minutes of whatever event that occurred?  Given that situation they probably just ran out of time to be able to make a precise maneuver to get them to the nearest emergency landing field.  According to Goodfellow's article that sharp left hand turn did in fact at least point the plane toward a airstrip they could land on and they just ran out of time and died before being able to complete the action.  The jet then probably just stabilized itself like it's built to do and then just flew silently on for 7 hours until it ran out of fuel.


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## ace2000

Clemson Fan said:


> Some of the very little evidence that we do have is that it appears the jet flew in a straight line for 7 hours after whatever event took place. How do you keep over 200 people completely silent for nearly 7 hours and why keep on flying the plane for 7 hours?


 
Who knows if they were "completely silent"?  There were no cell phone communications, but that may not have been possible in that area.  

The other theory out there is that with the quick ascent to 45000 feet, that the passengers and crew would be "knocked out" without oxygen.


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## SMHarman

Clemson Fan said:


> A catastrophic event like an electrical fire makes the most sense IMO.  It would lead the pilots to immediately shut down all the electrical systems in a systematic order to try and isolate and control the fire.  This would disable the transponder, ACARS and communications.  They would then make an immediate turn to try and make a b line to the nearest landable airstrip.  However, they weren't able to save the situation and they, as well as everybody else on board, we're overcome with smoke or loss of cabin pressure and probably died within 10-20 minutes of the event.  If a jet cabin depressurizes at 30k+ feet any human will pass out within 90 seconds.  Most of the passengers were probably sleeping since it was around 1:30 am and they probably just died in their sleep.  The jet then stabilized itself like it's built to do and then flew in complete and utter silence with everybody dead for 7 hours until the fuel ran out and it dropped into the ocean.


Yet so far there has been no catastrophic fire (in air) on any 777 in 20 years (see EgyptAir note below).  The two 777 crashes have come down to 
1) Piloting, the Asiana crew overreliant on ILS landing not able to pilot the plane to the ground without CAT3B funcitioning.  Furthermore, the deference to seniority in Asian carriers resulting in lack of challenge to Pilot in Command.
2) Engine / Fuel problem causing Icing on a fuel filter and engine fuel feed problems on final for BA38.  Flying high over Nepal caused icing in the fuel.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/b777.htm

For an aircraft introduced into commercial service in June 1995 that is a pretty amazing.  In the BA incident nobody died, in the Asiana incident only 3 died and I think at least one of them survived the impact made it off the plane and was run over by the SFO fire service as they were driving down the airport to the hull.

Reading the Wikipedia article, maybe something similar to the Egyptair ground problems happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777#Incidents_and_accidents


> The type's second hull-loss occurred on July 29, 2011, when an EgyptAir 777-200ER registered as SU-GBP suffered a cockpit fire while parked at the gate at Cairo International Airport.[222] The plane was successfully evacuated with no injuries,[222] and airport fire teams extinguished the fire.[223] The aircraft sustained structural, heat and smoke damage. This aircraft was written off.[222][223] Investigators focused on a possible electrical fault with a supply hose in the cockpit crew oxygen system.[222]



Finding the FDR and CVR will be fairly pointless, it will detail the final couple of hours but not what happened over the South China Sea.


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## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> What if the pilots and everybody else on board died within 10-20 minutes of whatever event that occurred?  Given that situation they probably just ran out of time to be able to make a precise maneuver to get them to the nearest emergency landing field.  According to Goodfellow's article that sharp left hand turn did in fact at least point the plane toward a airstrip they could land on and they just ran out of time and died before being able to complete the action.  The jet then probably just stabilized itself like it's built to do and then just flew silently on for 7 hours until it ran out of fuel.



I guess you haven't seen this: _Late Monday, the New York Times reported that the mysterious turn that diverted the missing flight off of its scheduled route to Beijing *was programmed into a computer system on board, meaning it was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls.

Senior American officials told the newspaper that someone entered a code into a knee-high pedestal between the pilot and co-pilot.

The revelation lends more credence to a theory by investigators searching for the jet that the Boeing 777 was deliberately diverted. *The Times reports it is unclear if the change in course was reprogrammed before or after the plane took off, but the change was likely made by someone in the cockpit with knowledge of airplane systems._Investigators say the jet flew off-course for hours.

There are two pilots on the flight deck. In event of fire, you were correct in that the first order is to fly the aircraft. That's the guy in the left seat. The copilot in the right seats job is to radio a distress.

Now, back to my questions: Do you really think it's plausible that a pre-progammed route was entered since a fire was predicted? Do you think a fire caused the 1. ACAR to be shutoff 2. the transponder to be shut off and 3. prevent a distress call?

Not even close. Of all the theories I've read and heard, this one is the least plausible. Abducted by alien Sasquatch is more likely.


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## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> I guess you haven't seen this: _Late Monday, the New York Times reported that the mysterious turn that diverted the missing flight off of its scheduled route to Beijing *was programmed into a computer system on board, meaning it was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls.
> 
> Senior American officials told the newspaper that someone entered a code into a knee-high pedestal between the pilot and co-pilot.
> 
> The revelation lends more credence to a theory by investigators searching for the jet that the Boeing 777 was deliberately diverted. *The Times reports it is unclear if the change in course was reprogrammed before or after the plane took off, but the change was likely made by someone in the cockpit with knowledge of airplane systems._Investigators say the jet flew off-course for hours.



How do you infer that programming the course change into the flight computer, "was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls"?

It was very likely that it was indeed one of the pilots that entered the course change into the flight computer.  Reports state that this is a 10-20 keystroke maneuver which is fewer keystrokes then writing this sentence.  Isn't it more plausible that once whatever emergency started that one of the pilots immediately programmed the flight computer to make that hard left turn to try and make a b line to the nearest landable airstrip?


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## SueDonJ

I don't know how anybody not in any way connected to the flight or the airline or the airports in the vicinity or the pilots or … or … or … can be more sure of one theory than any other, not when people who are connected and/or are experts in the field seem to be floundering around unsure of anything!

Before this I never would have imagined that a plane could disappear for more than a day or two.  It's mind-boggling that this plane has gone undetected for as long as it has, and it sure has reduced my comfort level with flying.  Not to the point where I won't fly, but it's sure making me think about the dangers much more than I did before.

One thing is sure - no matter what the outcome, folks are going to use all this theorizing as justification to not follow the rules about turning off electronics while flying.  There are going to be many more, "no way, not until you pry it from my cold, dead hands, I might need it To Save The Day" militant arguments against it.


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## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> There are two pilots on the flight deck. In event of fire, you were correct in that the first order is to fly the aircraft. That's the guy in the left seat. The copilot in the right seats job is to radio a distress.
> 
> Now, back to my questions: Do you really think it's plausible that a pre-progammed route was entered since a fire was predicted? Do you think a fire caused the 1. ACAR to be shutoff 2. the transponder to be shut off and 3. prevent a distress call?



There's no evidence that the left hand turn was pre-programmed.  In fact the evidence points to it being hastily done.  To me that seems like something one of the pilots would do in an emergency situation to turn the aircraft towards the nearest landable airstrip.

An electrical fire actually answers your questions quite nicely.  What would be the first thing you would do if you were running your microwave and it began to spark?  Would you make a distress call to the fire department?  Of course not.  You would shut the microwave off.

If there was an electrical fire, they would immediately turn all those systems off to try and isolate and stop the fire thus causing those systems to be turned off and communications to be cut off.  Once the fire is under control you would then systematically begin to turn things back on and make whatever distress call you're going to make.  Obviously they never made it to that point - probably because they were asphyxiated and died along with everybody else on board.


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## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> How do you infer that programming the course change into the flight computer, "was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls"?
> 
> It was very likely that it was indeed one of the pilots that entered the course change into the flight computer.  Reports state that this is a 10-20 keystroke maneuver which is fewer keystrokes then writing this sentence.  *Isn't it more plausible that once whatever emergency started that one of the pilots immediately programmed the flight computer to make that hard left turn to try and make a b line to the nearest landable airstrip?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> I'm not inferring anything since I didn't write this development.
> 
> No, it's not plausible at all.
> 
> A distress call would have been sent at the moment any smoke or fire was detected. Do you fly, or do you have a pilot in your family?
> 
> Back to disabling ACAR, the transponder, and all communicaitons - you seem to have a clear understanding of the protocol pilots of a 777 follow in event of smoke/fire. Please elaborate if you would - what are _all_ of the electronics on the flight deck that are systematically turned off, and in what order? And this is all done before the pilot or copilot radios a distress, right?


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## ace2000

Clemson Fan said:


> There's no evidence that the left hand turn was pre-programmed. In fact the evidence points to it being hastily done.


 
You should quit while you're ahead. 

_The first turn to the west that diverted the missing Malaysia Airlines plane from its planned flight path from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing was carried out through a computer system *that was most likely programmed by someone in the plane’s cockpit who was knowledgeable about airplane systems*, according to senior American officials._

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html


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## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> I'm not inferring anything since I didn't write this development.



You mean to tell me that a reporter actually wrote the inference that, "the course change into the flight computer was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls."?  

Man, that would be some horrible reporting!


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## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> There's no evidence that the left hand turn was pre-programmed.  In fact the evidence points to it being hastily done.  To me that seems like something one of the pilots would do in an emergency situation to turn the aircraft towards the nearest landable airstrip.



With due respect, this is absurd. Here's why:

Yes, the course change _was_ preprammed. Re-read the article. The course change WAS NOT automated by the pilots. The aircraft changed its course because the course change was entered into it system ahead of time. Ahead of time means preprogrammed. 

Second, there is NO evidence a preprogrammed course change was "hastily done". Where are you getting this??

Third, in an emergency, pilots are not fumbling with auto controls. They're busy flying the aircraft, manually, just as you stated in one of your earlier posts. 

Fly much?


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## SMHarman

Clemson Fan said:


> An electrical fire actually answers your questions quite nicely.  What would be the first thing you would do if you were running your microwave and it began to spark?  Would you make a distress call to the fire department?  Of course not.  You would shut the microwave off.
> 
> If there was an electrical fire, they would immediately turn all those systems off to try and isolate and stop the fire thus causing those systems to be turned off and communications to be cut off.  Once the fire is under control you would then systematically begin to turn things back on and make whatever distress call you're going to make.  Obviously they never made it to that point - probably because they were asphyxiated and died along with everybody else on board.


Pilot...


Clemson Fan said:


> There's no evidence that the left hand turn was pre-programmed.  In fact the evidence points to it being hastily done.  To me that seems like something one of the pilots would do in an emergency situation to turn the aircraft towards the nearest landable airstrip.


Navigate...

Communicate, which did not happen.

Though the wife and kids moving out is an interesting twist and certainly questions the mental health of one of the pilots.


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## ScoopKona

We are getting our information from the news industry -- an industry where getting there first is more important than getting all the facts straight. The news business -- particularly the television news business -- shoots first and aims later.

Don't put trust in the news. When the investigators release their final report; when the plane (or what's left of it) is found, then we'll know. (Or we may never know, at least not in our lifetimes. We are so used to getting our information immediately that we chafe at the notion that we have to be patient.)


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## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> You mean to tell me that a reporter actually wrote the inference that, "the course change into the flight computer was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls."?
> 
> Man, that would be some horrible reporting!



Let's go through this again, shall we? Here's the report: "...the mysterious turn that diverted the missing flight off of its scheduled route to Beijing was programmed into a computer system on board, meaning *it* was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls."

======================

"It" refers to the turn. The turn that took the aircraft off course. It means the pilot didn't maeuver the stick to turn the aircraft, the turn was preprogrammed.

Still sound like there was a fire?


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## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Let's go through this again, shall we? Here's the report: "...the mysterious turn that diverted the missing flight off of its scheduled route to Beijing was programmed into a computer system on board, meaning *it* was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls."
> 
> ======================
> 
> "It" refers to the turn. The turn that took the aircraft off course. It means the pilot didn't maeuver the stick to turn the aircraft, the turn was preprogrammed.
> 
> Still sound like there was a fire?



All this means is that instead of the pilots grabbing the yolk or stick to turn the aircraft, they typed it into the flight computer with approximately 10 keystrokes.  It doesn't mean that somebody other then one of the 2 pilots typed in those keystrokes.  The pilot was an experienced pilot and he probably knew those keystrokes by memory and when whatever emergency happened he plugged them in.

I have to admit I misread this initially.  I read that, "the course change into the flight computer was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls." to mean that the author thought it was somebody other then one of the pilots who programmed the flight computer.  The author actually meant that the pilots didn't manually use the yoke or stick to turn the plane and instead used the flight computer.  You have to admit, though, that it's pretty poorly worded by the author.


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## Clemson Fan

ScoopLV said:


> We are getting our information from the news industry -- an industry where getting there first is more important than getting all the facts straight. The news business -- particularly the television news business -- shoots first and aims later.
> 
> Don't put trust in the news. When the investigators release their final report; when the plane (or what's left of it) is found, then we'll know. (Or we may never know, at least not in our lifetimes. We are so used to getting our information immediately that we chafe at the notion that we have to be patient.)



Bingo!  The reporting on this has been absolutely atrocious!  Even the NY Times is guilty of terrible reporting!

This is an excerpt from that NY Times article.

"The fact that the turn away from Beijing was programmed into the computer has reinforced the belief of investigators — first voiced by Malaysian officials — that the plane was deliberately diverted and that foul play was involved. It has also increased their focus on the plane’s captain and first officer."

I can't believe they actually wrote, "and that foul play was involved."  Of course officials suspect and are investigating foul play, but to make that definitive statement in an article in the NY Times is just atrocious!

One of the big side stories here is how our news system has deteriorated so much by reporting suspicions and investigations as fact!


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## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> All this means is that instead of the pilots grabbing the yolk or stick to turn the aircraft, they typed it into the flight computer with approximately 10 keystrokes.  It doesn't mean that somebody other then one of the 2 pilots typed in those keystrokes.  The pilot was an experienced pilot and he probably knew those keystrokes by memory and when whatever emergency happened he plugged them in.



...and then systematically began shutting down all of the electronics, without ever making a distress call? That makes sense to you?


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## ace2000

SMHarman said:


> Though the wife and kids moving out is an interesting twist and certainly questions the mental health of one of the pilots.


 
And also the trial of the opposition leader that he attended that day.  Is it possible that the pilot was trying to make that a public issue and the Malaysian government is trying to squelch that aspect?


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## thheath

Sorry If I offend anyone but with all the crazy theories swirling in the media, I find this the most plausible.


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## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> With due respect, this is absurd. Here's why:
> 
> Yes, the course change _was_ preprammed. Re-read the article. The course change WAS NOT automated by the pilots. The aircraft changed its course because the course change was entered into it system ahead of time. Ahead of time means preprogrammed.
> 
> Second, there is NO evidence a preprogrammed course change was "hastily done". Where are you getting this??
> 
> Third, in an emergency, pilots are not fumbling with auto controls. They're busy flying the aircraft, manually, just as you stated in one of your earlier posts.
> 
> Fly much?



Again, there's no evidence that the course change was pre-programmed meaning that there's no evidence it was put into the flight computer prior to the plane taking off or prior to whatever event happened.

Saying "hastily done" may be a bad inference and it was only said because it appears that whatever maneuver they were trying to execute does not look like it was completed.  This is complete speculation, but the inference is that they were trying to program a course change to the nearest landable airstrip and it doesn't look like they were able to complete that task.  Why were they not able to complete that task nobody knows, but I think it's reasonable that to believe that they lost consciousness due to asphyxiation and died.

In an emergency it's reasonable to believe that the pilot had memorized where he wanted to divert the aircraft and thus reasonable to believe that instead of grabbing the yoke willy nilly and jerking the aircraft to the left that he would've plugged in those 10 or so keystrokes into the computer.

You keep asking me if I fly much.  I don't know why that's relevant, but I actually almost completed my private pilots license about 10 years ago and I've logged 60 hours of pilot in command of a Cessna and I have about 20 hours of solo time.  However, my wife got pregnant with our first child and she shut me down and didn't want me to fly anymore.  There were some minor arguments, but I did stop and didn't complete the license.

I'm a physician and EMS certified and have been involved in several emergency life saving situations.  When your in charge of working the emergency situation calling for help is one of the last things you do.  If you find somebody down and aren't trained for that emergency situation, then yes calling for help is the first thing you do.  However, if you're in charge of working the situation then it's actually the last thing you do.  You first stabilize the patient or situation and then you call for help.  If there was a fire on the aircraft, why would they communicate first before stabilizing the situation?  It's not like whoever they would be communicating with could do anything to help stabilize the situation.  They would be working frantically to stabilize whatever potential life threatening situation may be going on and then when they have things somewhat under control they would then send out a distress communication.  It's also plausible that an electrical fire immediately burnt out and disabled their communications.  There are multiple non-nefarious possible explanations as to why there was no distress call.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> ...and then systematically began shutting down all of the electronics, without ever making a distress call? That makes sense to you?



They're not firm on the timeline of how it all went down and a lot of the "reporting" is just in fact pure speculation no different then all of the things we've said on this thread.


----------



## ScoopKona

Clemson Fan said:


> They're not firm on the timeline of how it all went down and a lot of the "reporting" is just in fact pure speculation no different then all of the things we've said on this thread.



The news: Garbage in, garbage out.

A reporter can get 95% of the facts right, and people will fixate with laser-like precision on the 5% that's wrong.


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> They're not firm on the timeline of how it all went down and a lot of the "reporting" is just in fact pure speculation no different then all of the things we've said on this thread.



Unless you're a real conspiracy theorist and believe a distress signal was sent, but isn't being reported, you have to believe that there was no distress signal ever sent, can we agree to that? 

The likelihood of an aircraft experiencing smoke or fire and neither the pilot nor copilot making a distress call is nearly non-existent. Certainly nothing I would ever believe.


----------



## ScoopKona

Phydeaux said:


> The likelihood of an aircraft experiencing smoke or fire and neither the pilot nor copilot making a distress call is nearly non-existent.



Unless their communications equipment was malfunctioning and part of the problem. Face it, we don't know. We'd all like to think that the passengers are alive on some evil-genius' remote airstrip (preferably on an island with an active volcano for the three-hour blockbuster production).

But face it, we don't know. We've become so accustomed to knowing what we want immediately that we've forgotten what to do when a story is slow to unravel.


----------



## Phydeaux

ScoopLV said:


> Unless their communications equipment was malfunctioning and part of the problem. Face it, we don't know. We'd all like to think that the passengers are alive on some evil-genius' remote airstrip (preferably on an island with an active volcano for the three-hour blockbuster production).
> 
> But face it, we don't know. We've become so accustomed to knowing what we want immediately that we've forgotten what to do when a story is slow to unravel.



Is it likely that *all* communications equipment was malfunctioning, but the aircraft would have still flown on for hours, and altered it's altitude? 

You're correct, we don't know. I'd also like to think that the passengers are all alive. By the way, not all remote airstrips are accompanied by volcanoes and evil geniuses. Fact is, there are hundreds of remote airstrips within range of that aircraft. That is a simple fact, and I doubt any of them are controlled by an evil genius.

We have become accustomed to very quick answers, however, I haven't forgotten what to do when a story is slow to unravel. Inductive reasoning comes into play, and ruling out the least likely scenarios is just common sense.


----------



## ScoopKona

Phydeaux said:


> Inductive reasoning comes into play, and ruling out the least likely scenarios is just common sense.



Ruling out anything at this point is counterproductive. First we have to actually find the airplane, or what's left of it. Until that has been accomplished, everything else is jumping the gun. We have to first answer "what" before we can ask "why?"


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Unless you're a real conspiracy theorist and believe a distress signal was sent, but isn't being reported, you have to believe that there was no distress signal ever sent, can we agree to that?
> 
> The likelihood of an aircraft experiencing smoke or fire and neither the pilot nor copilot making a distress call is nearly non-existent. Certainly nothing I would ever believe.



I'm not a conspiracy theorist and am far from it.  Yes, I agree that no distress signal was sent.

It makes perfect sense to me that no distress signal was sent if either

1. The communication equipment was part of the problem or/and

2. The problem quickly overwhelmed them before they were able to get it under somewhat control and asphyxiation can do that.

I thought of another analogy.  As a surgeon, which I am, if I get into a emergency situation in the OR, like saying an uncontrolled and unidentified bleeder, I'm not going to call for help from anybody who's not already in the room.  I'm going to work the problem by trying to locate and isolate the bleeder and then I'm going to ligate it.  Once the situation is no longer threatening, I'm then going to reassess and determine whether I need to call for any external assistance.


----------



## SMHarman

Phydeaux said:


> You're correct, we don't know. I'd also like to think that the passengers are all alive. By the way, not all remote airstrips are accompanied by volcanoes and evil geniuses. Fact is, there are hundreds of remote airstrips within range of that aircraft. That is a simple fact, and I doubt any of them are controlled by an evil genius.


Remote Airstrips within range and that have a long enough, strong enough *tarmac or concrete* surface for the plane to land on.  If it is not the gear will collapse and it won't be taking off again in a hurry.


----------



## Phydeaux

SMHarman said:


> Remote Airstrips within range and that have a long enough, strong enough *tarmac or concrete* surface for the plane to land on.  If it is not the gear will collapse and it won't be taking off again in a hurry.



How many 5,000 foot non-concrete runways are you aware of? 


http://project.wnyc.org/runways/


----------



## Beefnot

A couple years ago, on an episode of "Air Emergency" on NGC I think it was, the pilot and entire crew had passed out due to rapid decompression or something.  I think fighter pilots or pilots of another plane (I forget) were able to fly close enough to witness that everyone was passed out.


----------



## Beefnot

Think it was this episode.

*Episode Detail: Unconscious Pilot - Air Emergency*

An examination of Helios Airways Flight 522, which crashed into a mountain outside Athens on Aug. 14, 2005, killing all passengers and crew.

*******************************************
Okay, yes that was it. Just found it on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

"...Two F-16 fighter aircraft from the Hellenic Air Force 111th Combat Wing were scrambled from Nea Anchialos Air Base to establish visual contact.They intercepted the passenger jet at 11:24 and observed that the first officer was slumped motionless at the controls and the captain's seat was empty. They also reported that oxygen masks were dangling in the passenger cabin."


----------



## SMHarman

Phydeaux said:


> How many 5,000 foot non-concrete runways are you aware of?
> 
> 
> http://project.wnyc.org/runways/



So I assume the response team is dividing and conquering checking in with ATC at all those 634 runways.

Lets also note that 5,000ft of runway may not be enough to get it airborne again.  Wikipedia only gives MTOW runway lengths but they start at 8,000 ft.


----------



## Phydeaux

I won't start a new thread  but imo, this is the most plausible theory. http://marklberry.com/2014/03/16/high-alert-mh370-found/
================================


This theory is closest to mine. Awacs will pick up the aircraft if it goes airborne, but what would be the instructions to fighters if radio messages from the jet suggested "we have over 200 hostages onboard this aircraft, and our demands are...."

Although the truth is there are no passengers on board. 

I too, hope I'm wrong. 

Side note, I didn't know it was possible to override the O2 masks from deploying from overheads with loss of cabin pressure, but I defer to this pilot.


----------



## Passepartout

Well, I have my own theory. The pilot(s) were enroute to Pakistan or one of the other 'stans, at low altitude, observing radio silence, and after achieving landfall found one of those mountalns with their nose. Hence no flotsam.

Either that or it is lying at the bottom of the Indian Ocean and sooner or later some foam or seat cushions or something will wash up on some shoreline.

In about 2 1/2 weeks, the batteries in the ELT will be depleted and no longer pinging. The search will be suspended and the news will be below the fold on about section F of the newspapers.

Jim


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Clemson Fan said:


> What if the pilots and everybody else on board died within 10-20 minutes of whatever event that occurred?  Given that situation they probably just ran out of time to be able to make a precise maneuver to get them to the nearest emergency landing field.  According to Goodfellow's article that sharp left hand turn did in fact at least point the plane toward a airstrip they could land on and they just ran out of time and died before being able to complete the action.  The jet then probably just stabilized itself like it's built to do and then just flew silently on for 7 hours until it ran out of fuel.



But, if the news reports are accurate, a big if, the plane didn't just fly on in the direction it was pointed. According to the radar tracking it was navigated along at least two set navigation waypoints.

I believe this is now the third time I have made this point in response to why this theory has problems.  This is why I keep saying that any plausible theory can't ignore ignore inconvenient information.


******

Of course, remembering that Malaysia is a country that has battled terrorists and insurgents in the past, there's always the possibility that the Malaysian air force reacted when a large jet, flying in a suspicious manner with all communications cut off, wandered into their air space.  At which point they forced it down.

And ever since they've been trying to cover it up, starting with their withholding of information that the military had even tracked the jet.


----------



## Beefnot

If the plane was on autopilot it doesn't just fly straight, does it?  It can fly on a predetermine flight path, no?


----------



## SMHarman

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> But, if the news reports are accurate, a big if, the plane didn't just fly on in the direction it was pointed. According to the radar tracking it was navigated along at least two set navigation waypoints.
> 
> I Believe this is now the third time I have made this point in response to why this theory has problems.  This is why I keep saying that any plausible theory can't ignore ignore inconvenient information.





Beefnot said:


> If the plane was on autopilot it doesn't just fly straight, does it?  It can fly on a predetermine flight path, no?



It can, but the rest of that flight path must also be programmed.  The plane left ground with a flight path programmed for China from the filed flight plan.

We know a new turn was programmed into the FMS but not if more that that turn was programmed.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

SMHarman said:


> It can, but the rest of that flight path must also be programmed.  The plane left ground with a flight path programmed for China from the filed flight plan.
> 
> We know a new turn was programmed into the FMS but not if more that that turn was programmed.



Which is the problem with the distress theory of the OP.  If the scenario was the emergency scenario as described, the pilot would have needed to turn off the autopilot so that he could set the straightest course for the emergency landing he would have been anticipating.  He wouldn't have put it on autopilot, nor would he have flown it the way it was apparently flown if he were trying for an emergency landing.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

SMHarman said:


> Side note, I didn't know it was possible to override the O2 masks from deploying from overheads with loss of cabin pressure, but I defer to this pilot.



I was in a class this afternoon with a recently retired Boeing engineer, where we were discussing the plane. When this question came up, he said the oxygen bags deploy automatically, and they continue operating until the pilot turns them off.   So it's totally plausible for the pilot to take the plane to a high altitude, depressurize the plane causing the oxygen masks to drop, then turn off the oxygen system in the cabin to kill or incapacitate passengers and crew.


----------



## pedro47

During the war in Vietnam, the USA built a lot of runways that are now abandoned  over Southeast Asia.


----------



## Patri

Passepartout said:


> In about 2 1/2 weeks, the batteries in the ELT will be depleted and no longer pinging. The search will be suspended and the news will be below the fold on about section F of the newspapers.



A pilot on the news said it will beep, at a slower pace, for many years. It will be heard and the plane will be found.
People will care about this for a long time. They still care about Amelia Earhart, for pete's sake. Just because the story is farther back in the paper does not mean it is not important.


----------



## Sandy VDH

I just got back from the Maldives.  So I had been reading up and I just checked a website, and found the following article.  No mention of this in all the current press coverage.  Interesting.....

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...ng-low-flying-aircraft-on-day-mh370-disappear


----------



## Clemson Fan

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> But, if the news reports are accurate, a big if, the plane didn't just fly on in the direction it was pointed. According to the radar tracking it was navigated along at least two set navigation waypoints.
> 
> I believe this is now the third time I have made this point in response to why this theory has problems.  This is why I keep saying that any plausible theory can't ignore ignore inconvenient information.



Can you provide a reference article for this information?  I don't think I've read about this aspect of the reported evidence and I would like to.

I'm not saying that Mr. Goodfellow's theory is completely accurate, but it's still IMO the most plausible explanation I've heard of to date.  I just have many more problems buying the other major theories.  For example:

1. Pilot suicide.  This one I can actually buy except for the fact the plane flew on for 7 hours in complete silence.  What was he doing for those 7 hours?  Reminiscing about his miserable life?  Why not just dive the plane into the ocean or go out with a bang ala 9/11 style and send the plane into a government building?  Unless of course he just botched it and ended up asphyxiating himself while asphyxiating all the passengers.  Regardless, it would be very highly unusual suicide.

2. Hijacking.  Why no demands or claims of the hijacking?  Isn't that the whole point of a hijacking?  Also, I think it would be impossible to keep over 200 passengers completely silent especially since the plane flew back over Malaysia.  I would think some passengers would be able to get a message out?  Maybe they killed all the passengers, but why would you kill your hostages that can be used as bargaining chips?  There are just too many implausible questions for me to buy this one.

3. Terrorism.  Why no claims by anybody?  Why didn't they use the plane as a weapon?  Why fly in silence for 7 hours?  Again, I'm not buying this one.

4. Meteor.  Come on now! 

5. Crash landing on Gilligan's Island or the magical Lost Island.  Sure, why not!

I'm actually anti conspiracy theory by nature which is probably why I still think Mr. Goodfellow's theory is probably in the end going to be the closest to the truth.  Until that plane is found this is going to turn into a field day of conspiracy theories like the moon landings being faked or the 9/11 truthers, etc.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Beefnot said:


> Think it was this episode.
> 
> *Episode Detail: Unconscious Pilot - Air Emergency*
> 
> An examination of Helios Airways Flight 522, which crashed into a mountain outside Athens on Aug. 14, 2005, killing all passengers and crew.
> 
> *******************************************
> Okay, yes that was it. Just found it on wikipedia
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
> 
> "...Two F-16 fighter aircraft from the Hellenic Air Force 111th Combat Wing were scrambled from Nea Anchialos Air Base to establish visual contact.They intercepted the passenger jet at 11:24 and observed that the first officer was slumped motionless at the controls and the captain's seat was empty. They also reported that oxygen masks were dangling in the passenger cabin."



The golfer Payne Stewart died this way as well.


----------



## DeniseM

Clemson Fan said:


> Also, I think it would be impossible to keep over 200 passengers completely silent especially since the plane flew back over Malaysia.



This has been widely discussed in the news:  Apparently it is cheap and easy to buy electronic equipment that blocks cell phones, and other communication devices.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Clemson Fan said:


> Can you provide a reference article for this information?  I don't think I've read about this aspect of the reported evidence and I would like to.



Malaysia Airlines: Suspicions of 'foul play' as radar shows plane being 'deliberately flown' West


> The fact that the aircraft – if it was MH370 – had lost contact with air traffic control and was invisible to civilian radar suggested someone aboard had turned its communication systems off, the first two sources said.
> 
> They also gave new details on the direction in which the unidentified aircraft was heading – following aviation corridors identified on maps used by pilots as N571 and P628. These routes are taken by commercial planes flying from Southeast Asia to the Middle East or Europe and can be found in public documents issued by regional aviation authorities.
> 
> In a far more detailed description of the military radar plotting than has been publicly revealed, the first two sources said the last confirmed position of MH370 was at 35,000 feet about 90 miles (144km) off the east coast of Malaysia, heading towards Vietnam, near a navigational waypoint called "Igari". The time was 1:21am.
> 
> The military track suggests it then turned sharply westwards, heading towards a waypoint called "Vampi", northeast of Indonesia's Aceh province and a navigational point used for planes following route N571 to the Middle East.
> From there, the plot indicates the plane flew towards a waypoint called "Gival", south of the Thai island of Phuket, and was last plotted heading northwest towards another waypoint called "Igrex", on route P628 that would take it over the Andaman Islands and which carriers use to fly towards Europe.








Doesn't seem to me be the path that an airplane would take if it were trying to make an emergency landing.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> I won't start a new thread  but imo, this is the most plausible theory. http://marklberry.com/2014/03/16/high-alert-mh370-found/
> ================================
> 
> 
> This theory is closest to mine. Awacs will pick up the aircraft if it goes airborne, but what would be the instructions to fighters if radio messages from the jet suggested "we have over 200 hostages onboard this aircraft, and our demands are...."
> 
> Although the truth is there are no passengers on board.
> 
> I too, hope I'm wrong.
> 
> Side note, I didn't know it was possible to override the O2 masks from deploying from overheads with loss of cabin pressure, but I defer to this pilot.



Interesting theory which I agree should be investigated. 

However, he does make some statements of fact in the piece that have in no way been proven.  Here's an excerpt:

"I wouldn’t have thought that a widebody aircraft could fly up to seven hours undetected by radar or satellites, but now it appears that it has—at least as much as any government is admitting. There wasn’t a system malfunction on the Boeing 777 that prevented communication, or we’d know that by now. I don’t think there was a mid-air explosion or ditching or crash, or we’d know that by now too. Even the Malaysian government has finally admitted that this was a case of foul play—a hijacking."

How would we know there wasn't a system malfunction to prevent communication?  We don't even know where the plane is? So, how could we possible know a fine detail like that?

How would we know there wasn't a ditching or a crash?  The southern Indian Ocean is an awfully expansive area.

Has the Malaysian government admitted this was a case of foul play-a hijacking?  I don't think so.  They've admitted that the change of course was a deliberate act and they are investigating all possibilities including a hijacking like they should, but I don't think they've firmly identified the motive (emergency or nefarious) behind the deliberate change of course.

I would like to know what this authors opinion is on TWA 800 since he had a fiancé on that flight?  The official cause of that crash is a spark causing an explosion in the center fuel tank.  However, there are many people, and there was a recent movie about it, that believe that story was a cover-up and that plane was taken down by a wayward Navy missile.  I'm curious to know where he falls on that one?


----------



## tompalm

Phydeaux said:


> I won't start a new thread  but imo, this is the most plausible theory. http://marklberry.com/2014/03/16/high-alert-mh370-found/
> ================================
> 
> Side note, I didn't know it was possible to override the O2 masks from deploying from overheads with loss of cabin pressure, but I defer to this pilot.



Mark L Berry nailed it and that has been my opinion from Day 2 when they didn't find any wreckage.  If you didn't read the article, here is a recap in one sentence:  

"There as a Boeing 777 at large, and very possibly it is in flyable condition and in the hands of terrorists. 

Too much evidence supports the aircraft was hijacked by someone on-board or by one of the pilots with the help of someone on board.  The people that did this were very smart, had a plan and capable of landing this aircraft.  Maybe they didn't make it to an airfield and crash in the Indian Ocean, but the odds are high that they landed somewhere. 

One thing about the passenger O-2 is that it is designed to last about 10 minutes in case there is a rapid decompression at high altitude and the pilots need to make an emergency descent.  So, even if the O-2 mask deployed, all the pilots had to do is stay above 14,000, or change the pressurization controller to manual mode and set 14,000 for cabin altitude and keep it like that for about 30 minutes and all the passenger would pass out and die.  Of course the pilots would need to wear their O-2 mask.  I had high hopes that maybe the passengers were still alive, but as time goes on, it seems less likely.  

The real question right now should be "what is planned for the use of that aircraft and who is behind it?"


----------



## tompalm

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I was in a class this afternoon with a recently retired Boeing engineer, where we were discussing the plane. When this question came up, he said the oxygen bags deploy automatically, and they continue operating until the pilot turns them off.   So it's totally plausible for the pilot to take the plane to a high altitude, depressurize the plane causing the oxygen masks to drop, then turn off the oxygen system in the cabin to kill or incapacitate passengers and crew.



That is probably true in some aircraft.  The new 737-800 NG or next generation that were being built by Boeing last year were designed to make Oxygen for about 10 minutes.  After that, the passengers do not have oxygen even if they are wearing a mask.  In my post above I stated 10 minutes.  I am not sure how the 777 works, but would think Boeing keeps it standard.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

tompalm said:


> Mark L Berry nailed it and that has been my opinion from Day 2 when they didn't find any wreckage.  If you didn't read the article, here is a recap in one sentence:
> 
> "There as a Boeing 777 at large, and very possibly it is in flyable condition and in the hands of terrorists.
> 
> Too much evidence supports the aircraft was hijacked by someone on-board or by one of the pilots with the help of someone on board.  The people that did this were very smart, had a plan and capable of landing this aircraft.  Maybe they didn't make it to an airfield and crash in the Indian Ocean, but the odds are high that they landed somewhere.



That's been my suspicion as well.  I discounted it at first because I had a hard time believing that someone could have flown the plane over land without the plane being detected on primary radar.  However, it now appears that at least two countries, in fact, did pick up the plane on primary radar and ignored the signal.  That laxity makes it much more likely that the plane could have been successfully flown to a suitable remote landing strip where it could then be quickly hidden.  

That would serve to limit the number of locations to check, because it has to be landing strip that has to be long enough for a plane of that size to take off, carrying a load of fuel large enough to get it to a destination, and in sufficiently decent condition for takeoff and landing of a large jet.


----------



## Phydeaux

tompalm said:


> *Mark L Berry nailed it and that has been my opinion from Day 2 when they didn't find any wreckage*.  If you didn't read the article, here is a recap in one sentence:
> 
> "There as a Boeing 777 at large, and very possibly it is in flyable condition and in the hands of terrorists.
> 
> Too much evidence supports the aircraft was hijacked by someone on-board or by one of the pilots with the help of someone on board.  The people that did this were very smart, had a plan and capable of landing this aircraft.  Maybe they didn't make it to an airfield and crash in the Indian Ocean, but the odds are high that they landed somewhere.
> 
> One thing about the passenger O-2 is that it is designed to last about 10 minutes in case there is a rapid decompression at high altitude and the pilots need to make an emergency descent.  So, even if the O-2 mask deployed, all the pilots had to do is stay above 14,000, or change the pressurization controller to manual mode and set 14,000 for cabin altitude and keep it like that for about 30 minutes and all the passenger would pass out and die.  Of course the pilots would need to wear their O-2 mask.  I had high hopes that maybe the passengers were still alive, but as time goes on, it seems less likely.
> 
> The real question right now should be "what is planned for the use of that aircraft and who is behind it?"




Agreed, and no ping. And with each passing day, this theory becomes more and more likely. Now we learn the turn was initiated before the "good night message", made by the copilot..  So, you other folks still think there was a fire huh?


----------



## Tia

Very interesting!! Yes why is this not mentioned in our news coverage??



Sandy VDH said:


> I just got back from the Maldives.  So I had been reading up and I just checked a website, and found the following article.  No mention of this in all the current press coverage.  Interesting.....
> 
> http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...ng-low-flying-aircraft-on-day-mh370-disappear


----------



## CarolF

Clemson Fan said:


> You mean to tell me that a reporter actually wrote the inference that, "the course change into the flight computer was not executed manually by one of the pilots at the controls."?
> 
> Man, that would be some horrible reporting!



I personally liked



> ANDREW HERDMAN (Association of Asia Pacific Airlines' Director General Andrew Herdman) - That would be very helpful in terms of focusing the search effort because at the moment *you're looking for a needle in a football field, as someone in the American military said, or a needle in Texas*, if you take the current zone.



http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s3965602.htm

A shortage of needles in Texas, who knew?


----------



## CarolF

Tia said:


> Very interesting!! Yes why is this not mentioned in our news coverage??



So many false reports I expect.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-19/malaysia/5332052

You may also have missed the oil rig worker who saw it in flames near Vietnam.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/12/oil-rig-worker-says-he-saw-missing-plane-go-down-r/


----------



## Phydeaux

Here's another prediction - a number of folks that have posted their theories on this thread are going to be dropping off the thread. 

Alternatively, if my theory was incorrect, I'll be back here to admit I was incorrect.


----------



## Patri

If it is on some remote airstrip, what do you think they would do with the bodies?


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Patri said:


> If it is on some remote airstrip, what do you think they would do with the bodies?



What would you do if you were in full command at some remote location and you were suddenly responsible for dealing with 200 corpses?


----------



## Phydeaux

Released today: "..._On Tuesday, former FAA spokesman Scott Brenner said that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was already 12 minutes into its diverted course when the plane's co-pilot calmly told air traffic controllers that things were "all right."   

"One of the pilots clearly had the intention ... that he was going to take (the plane) in a different direction," Brenner told host Megyn Kelly on "The Kelly File." "It's 100 percent clear this pilot, or this co-pilot, was going to take this plane with the intent of doing something bad."

Brenner also believes it's likely that co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid and Shah were both involved in the decision to change the flight's course.

"For a pilot or a co-pilot to punch in a new waypoint in their flight management system without the other one noticing would be hard to do," he said._

=======================

Sticking with my original theory, post #5


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> Sticking with my original theory, post #5



And I will be sticking with my post #4 as the root cause.


----------



## Passepartout

Patri said:


> If it is on some remote airstrip, what do you think they would do with the bodies?



Well fed sharks?


----------



## Phydeaux

Passepartout said:


> Well fed sharks?




Changing your theory Jim?


----------



## Passepartout

Phydeaux said:


> Changing your theory Jim?



Nope. Still sticking to a land crash, but frankly, I am as flummoxed as everyone.


----------



## SMHarman

Passepartout said:


> Nope. Still sticking to a land crash, but frankly, I am as flummoxed as everyone.



Why land when there is so much more water to target. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


----------



## Passepartout

SMHarman said:


> Why land when there is so much more water to target.



Well, the plane flew for several hours presumably in a NW or SW direction. The governments there are not exactly open about what happens within them. There is not much radar coverage of central Asia, and some humonhous mountains to get in the way of a lowflying sneaky airplane. That, along with no flotsam being found by some fisherman (yet) or spotted from the air make me think it ended up splattered into a mountain. 

Or you might say it was a guess. I don't know any more than anyone else what happened to it. Or why.


----------



## SMHarman

But there is nothing to indicate this was a lowflying aircraft.

As other theorists have theorised, he was hiding in plain (plane) sight by sticking to the major marker points and routes, just a blip that was not transponding heading in a usual direction.


----------



## camachinist

tompalm said:


> That is probably true in some aircraft.  The new 737-800 NG or next generation that were being built by Boeing last year were designed to make Oxygen for about 10 minutes.  After that, the passengers do not have oxygen even if they are wearing a mask.  In my post above I stated 10 minutes.  I am not sure how the 777 works, but would think Boeing keeps it standard.


Been following this tragedy on Pprune and Flyertalk and have done some independent research and figured I'd jump in here.

Most customers, MH included apparently, go for the less expensive oxygen generators for pax oxygen, which normally will last 12-15 minutes, tops, which is more than sufficient to allow for an emergency descent from FL35-40 to FL14 where pax can generally breathe unaided. Crew has compressed oxygen available to them in the cabin and my understanding is that it can last up to 30 minutes. Pilots have a different supply and special masks and can go longer than any crew or pax. 

My personal feeling is that the plane was commandeered, either by a third party or one or both pilots, and was intended to be flown to a certain location but failed. 

Secondarily, though more remote, the 'Payne Stewart' scenario is also possible, more recently seen on a Helios flight. Plane had issues, cascading beyond the QRH, with pilots making initial change to head to divert and conditions on the plane took them out and flew on via its own technology until CFIT or the autopilot disengaging due to fuel starvation took it.


----------



## Passepartout

SMHarman said:


> But there is nothing to indicate this was a lowflying aircraft.



Nor anything to indicate it wasn't, either. Though jets use a lot less fuel at higher flight levels than they do at low ones. Denser, warmer, more humid air to fly through.

It's just a guess. Some day the plane will be found, though it is unlikely all the answers will be.


----------



## SMHarman

^  Well the radar tracking of the blip on the Malaysian military radar had it a FL21 or thereabouts.  3 miles up is not skimming the surface (not your words, those of some of the conspiracy theorists) of the ocean by any measure.  

As you note, range and airspeed have to reduce if you are lower so if these pilots are on a plan they would execute it nearer their usual flying paramenters, not hundreds of knots slower at sea level.

Though that said, FL21 flys you into a few mountains around there.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

camachinist said:


> My personal feeling is that the plane was commandeered, either by a third party or one or both pilots, and was intended to be flown to a certain location but failed.



Depends.  If it was intended to be flown to a certain location and hidden, they might very well have succeeded.


----------



## Phydeaux

It's interesting to me that there seem to be a large percentage of people that believe the aircraft has crashed. Indeed it may have. However, there is no evidence thusfar to suggest it crashed. So, its curious to me that the majority feels it crashed, whereas logic suggests it was fully capable of landing, and had a choice of over 600 runways to do so.

Interesting...


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> It's interesting to me that there seem to be a large percentage of people that believe the aircraft has crashed. Indeed it may have. However, there is no evidence thusfar to suggest it crashed. So, its curious to me that the majority feels it crashed, whereas logic suggests it was fully capable of landing, and had a choice of over 600 runways to do so.
> 
> Interesting...



I think it's likely.  I'll base that on the fact there have been no terror groups claiming responsibility or making demands (at least publicly).  

I don't think anyone can say one way or the other for sure, so why does it surprise you?


----------



## Phydeaux

ace2000 said:


> I think it's likely.  I'll base that on the fact there have been no terror groups claiming responsibility or making demands (at least publicly).
> 
> I don't think anyone can say one way or the other for sure, so why does it surprise you?



It surprises me because it appears the majority believe it crashed. I do not, and haven't since day 2. I would think, given what we know, it would be much closer to 50/50 with those believing the aircraft landed safely. I don't know the breakdown, but there seems to be many more that feel it crashed. However, I also believe as days pass and if no wreckage is found, some will reverse their opinion.

Again, what is so unbelievable about a safe landing at an abandoned airstrip?


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> Again, what is so unbelievable about a sage landing at an abandoned airstrip?



Nothing.  However, I feel that finding it at the bottom of the ocean is more likely.  That's the problem.


----------



## Phydeaux

ace2000 said:


> Nothing.  However, I feel that finding it at the bottom of the ocean is more likely.  That's the problem.



Now were getting somewhere. Why do you feel that's more likely?


----------



## Elan

ace2000 said:


> I think it's likely.  I'll base that on the fact there have been no terror groups claiming responsibility or making demands (at least publicly).
> 
> I don't think anyone can say one way or the other for sure, so why does it surprise you?



  I don't understand the lack of "terror groups claiming responsibility or making demands" point.  If the intent is to steal the aircraft, load it with fuel and nukes (or biological weapons) and crash it in Los Angeles or London, I don't think the involved parties are going to proclaim such or demand anything??????


----------



## ace2000

Elan said:


> I don't understand the lack of "terror groups claiming responsibility or making demands" point.  If the intent is to steal the aircraft, load it with fuel and nukes (or biological weapons) and crash it in Los Angeles or London, I don't think the involved parties are going to proclaim such or demand anything??????



I'm not saying it didn't happen that way.  The question is what do I think?  I just feel the crash landing in the ocean is the most likely.


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> Now were getting somewhere. Why do you feel that's more likely?



Because that's where they're searching (in the ocean) and they know more of the details and facts than any of us do.


----------



## Phydeaux

ace2000 said:


> Because that's where they're searching (in the ocean) and they know more of the details and facts than any of us do.



You don't suppose anyone is looking at those 600 runways also?


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> You don't suppose anyone is looking at those 600 runways also?



LOL - I'm not discounting the runway theory.  

If I was to respond to a survey on what I believe happened, I'm going with the bottom of the ocean, based on what I know at this point.  And I'm not surprised that's what most people think.


----------



## SMHarman

Phydeaux said:


> It surprises me because it appears the majority believe it crashed. I do not, and haven't since day 2. I would think, given what we know, it would be much closer to 50/50 with those believing the aircraft landed safely. I don't know the breakdown, but there seems to be many more that feel it crashed. However, I also believe as days pass and if no wreckage is found, some will reverse their opinion.
> 
> Again, what is so unbelievable about a safe landing at an abandoned airstrip?



The abandoned strip, unless there are many others involved, has no navigation and landing guidance systems on it making it much harder to find in the middle of a moonless night.
Nobody has claimed responsibility or any other indication that this happened.
Since landing 10 days ago the plane has not been powered back up, the engines have not pinged the base again so it landed, got powered down, then nothing, so it is sitting where it stopped or they also have a 777 sized tug to move it about?
I could see that was the plan and that the pilots flight sim may reveal airports he was intending to land at, was practicing landing at but I think that the plan did not work out.  
There are many others involved in getting a commercial widebody aircraft from point to point, dispatchers, ground handling crew, ground / airport ATC, ATC, ground / airport ATC, ILS, landing lights, runway lights, glidescope lights / radio and other visual clues as to where to land / ground crew, heck you would even need some steps to get down from the plane once you landed it, you lost the support team when you went rogue and putting that team together is pretty hard.



ace2000 said:


> Nothing.  However, I feel that finding it at the bottom of the ocean is more likely.  That's the problem.


There is more ocean than land, this is also my assumption.


----------



## Quadmaniac

Phydeaux said:


> It surprises me because it appears the majority believe it crashed. I do not, and haven't since day 2. I would think, given what we know, it would be much closer to 50/50 with those believing the aircraft landed safely. I don't know the breakdown, but there seems to be many more that feel it crashed. However, I also believe as days pass and if no wreckage is found, some will reverse their opinion.
> 
> Again, what is so unbelievable about a safe landing at an abandoned airstrip?



What is the probability that a plane with 239 people, assuming just 4 were involved with disappearance, would not have made a phone call once they noticed something was wrong or when they landed ? That's a possibility of 235 cell phones. The chances that one call did not make it out is highly unlikely. Look at the crashes from 9/11. How many made calls to their loved ones before crashing ? Numerous.

In this accident, not one call to a relative ? That would suggest no one knew anything was wrong and never had a chance to call anyone before crashing. If they landed, guaranteed they would know they were not where they are supposed to be and unless there is no cell coverage, the cell phones would be blazing, even before landing. Does not make logical sense.

Boeing 777 is a huge plane and it needs a long landing strip. Any location that can accommodate the landing of a plane that large would most probably be in cell phone range. It would not be a tiny isolated airstrip.


----------



## Phydeaux

ace2000 said:


> LOL - I'm not discounting the runway theory.
> 
> If I was to respond to a survey on what I believe happened, I'm going with the bottom of the ocean, based on what I know at this point.  And I'm not surprised that's what most people think.



And you can't, or wont explain why. That's what I find interesting. No harm, no foul.


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> And you can't, or wont explain why. That's what I find interesting. No harm, no foul.



No, I mentioned that I believe that because that happens to be where they are frantically searching right now.  And they know more than any of us do currently.


----------



## Phydeaux

Quadmaniac said:


> What is the probability that a plane with 239 people, assuming just 4 were involved with disappearance, would not have made a phone call once they noticed something was wrong or when they landed ? That's a possibility of 235 cell phones. The chances that one call did not make it out is highly unlikely. Look at the crashes from 9/11. How many made calls to their loved ones before crashing ? Numerous.
> 
> In this accident, not one call to a relative ? That would suggest no one knew anything was wrong and never had a chance to call anyone before crashing. If they landed, guaranteed they would know they were not where they are supposed to be and unless there is no cell coverage, the cell phones would be blazing, even before landing. Does not make logical sense.



A few key differences here than with 911. First, is there cellular coverage in this area?,second, if pax were unconscious, they can't call. Nor can they call if their phones were all collected.


----------



## Phydeaux

ace2000 said:


> No, I mentioned that I believe that because that happens to be where they are frantically searching right now.  And they know more than any of us do currently.



So you believe the airstrips are not being "frantically searched" right now?


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> So you believe the airstrips are not being "frantically searched" right now?



Read post #93  

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1603729&postcount=93


----------



## Phydeaux

ace2000 said:


> Read post #93
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1603729&postcount=93



No, I caught that the first time. If they're both being frantically searched, curious why you're drawn to the crash scenario, that's all.


----------



## Quadmaniac

Phydeaux said:


> A few key differences here than with 911. First, is there cellular coverage in this area?,second, if pax were unconscious, they can't call. Nor can they call if their phones were all collected.



My point exactly. No cell coverage in the deep ocean. Try collecting phones from 235 people - if they started at one end or even both ends, the people in the middle could at least type out a text or email message that would continually try to send until it gets into cell range.

Guaranteed at least one person would hide their phone before you got to them.


----------



## Beefnot

Quadmaniac said:


> My point exactly. No cell coverage in the deep ocean. Try collecting phones from 235 people - if they started at one end or even both ends, the people in the middle could at least type out a text or email message that would continually try to send until it gets into cell range.
> 
> Guaranteed at least one person would hide their phone before you got to them.


 
Your point exactly that unconscious passengers could hammer out a text message too?


----------



## Beefnot

If the plane simply went down and crashed, it would be like slamming into concrete, so there would be plenty of debris floating around, right?  Is there any way for an intact airliner to be at the bottom of the ocean?


----------



## Chrispee

Phydeaux said:


> You don't suppose anyone is looking at those 600 runways also?



If a plane were to be hijacked (by the pilots or others) with the intent of landing safely, I think the circumstances dictate that far less than 600 of those runways make sense.  Let's consider that no ransom demands have been made and nobody has claimed responsibility.  Can we agree that these are the two plausible reasons why group would hijack the plane?

1. Plane was hijacked solely for the purpose of robbing those aboard of their belongings?  Seems like an obscenely difficult way to make some money.

2. Plane was hijacked with the intent of using it at a later date for a terrorist act.

Scenario number two means they would need an 8000+ foot runway to take off again, and it would be nearly impossible to do so while avoiding detection.

Can you think of any other reason the plane would be hijacked and landed safely?


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Chrispee said:


> Scenario number two means they would need an 8000+ foot runway to take off again, and it would be nearly impossible to do so while avoiding detection.
> 
> Can you think of any other reason the plane would be hijacked and landed safely?



They also need a runway that enables the plane to effectively be hidden from aerial surveillance.  I.e, a runway in the middle of a desert is probably not a viable location.


----------



## Chrispee

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> They also need a runway that enables the plane to effectively be hidden from aerial surveillance.  I.e, a runway in the middle of a desert is probably not a viable location.



Exactly.  So you're looking at an 8000' strip in a mountainous region that a pilot would have had to land with no navigational aid, without anybody seeing it.  The combined factors make me believe that the plane is in the deep blue or obliterated in a mountain valley, but I'm definitely still open to other interpretations.


----------



## CarolF

Whilst the runways might be unused they aren't really isolated.  A plane landing on any of the islands in SE Asia, including the "uninhabited" ones, would most likely run over an Australian backpacker.  The  Kazakh Civil Aviation Committee has said that the plane would have been picked up by radar if it went over India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.  The military is a little touchy in that area.


----------



## DaveNV

I'm coming late to this party, but found this article quite interesting.  What do you experts think?

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Dave


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

BMWguynw said:


> I'm coming late to this party, but found this article quite interesting.  What do you experts think?
> 
> http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
> 
> Dave



Already discussed extensively upthread, beginning with post #1. (You're not just coming late to the party; it appears that you may not have read the invitation.  :rofl


----------



## DaveNV

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Already discussed extensively upthread, beginning with post #1. (You're not just coming late to the party; it appears that you may not have read the invitation.  :rofl



LOL! Actually I did read it initially, but with so many twists in this thread since, its hard to keep up, and I forgot I'd read it. You guys are amazing in your theorizing.

So what about reports of the plane flying low over the Maldives? Why would all those people claim to see it, yet the authorities say it didn't happen?

Dave


----------



## Phydeaux

Quadmaniac said:


> My point exactly. No cell coverage in the deep ocean. Try collecting phones from 235 people - if they started at one end or even both ends, the people in the middle could at least type out a text or email message that would continually try to send until it gets into cell range.
> 
> Guaranteed at least one person would hide their phone before you got to them.



Once again, not if they're all unconscious.


----------



## Phydeaux

CarolF said:


> *Whilst the runways might be unused they aren't really isolated.  A plane landing on any of the islands in SE Asia, including the "uninhabited" ones, would most likely run over an Australian backpacker. * The  Kazakh Civil Aviation Committee has said that the plane would have been picked up by radar if it went over India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.  The military is a little touchy in that area.




Huh? Isolated, uninhibited means just that. They're aren't human beings on every square mile of planet.


----------



## CarolF

Phydeaux said:


> Huh? Isolated, uninhibited means just that. They're aren't human beings on every square mile of planet.



I can assure you that there are plenty of surfers and hikers from around the world camping on those isolated, "uninhabited islands" in SE Asia.   30 years ago the only way to get to Pulau Perhentian Besar or Kecil was to pay a fisherman to drop you there.  To get back you either flagged a passing fishing boat down by standing on the beach or a hill and waving at them or made arrangements for them to collect you in a week or so.  The monitor lizards walked on you whilst you slept on the beach and there wasn't a water supply.  These days SE Asia Islands are regularly used by travellers with many interests and often the wilder the better. You still get there via fishing boats and even though there isn't a year around, permanent community, "local" people sail there regularly to sell food and water and make money from the captives , just as they have for as long as I can remember.


----------



## SMHarman

Malaysia Airlines Expands Investigation To Include General Scope Of Space, Time

http://www.theonion.com/articles/malaysian-airlines-expands-investigation-to-includ,35524/

KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA—Following a host of conflicting reports in the wake of the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 last Saturday, representatives from the Kuala Lumpur–based carrier acknowledged they had widened their investigation into the vanished Boeing 777 aircraft today to encompass not only the possibilities of mechanical failure, pilot error, terrorist activity, or a botched hijacking, but also the overarching scope of space, time, and humankind’s place in the universe.

“We continue to do everything in our power and explore every possible lead—both Cartesian and phenomenological—to locate the aircraft as quickly as possible,” said Malaysia’s civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, who went on to say that authorities were still actively seeking tips from anyone claiming knowledge related either to the flight, or to the mechanisms by which consciousness arises, or to the question of why anything physical and finite exists instead of nothing at all. “At this stage, we can’t rule anything out: not crew interference with the transponders, not a catastrophic electrical failure, not the emergence of a complex topological feature of space-time such as an Einstein-Rosen bridge that could have deposited the flight at any location in the universe or a different time period altogether, nothing.”

“Could a parallel universe have immediately swelled up from random cosmological fluctuation according to the multiverse theory and swallowed the flight into its folds, or could ice have built up on an airspeed sensor? Those are both options we are currently considering,” Rahman added. “Everything’s on the table. That is, insofar as anything exists at all, which we’re also looking into.”


Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


----------



## IngridN

The local news outlets are now reporting that Australia has found something (satelite images) off their coast and that they have sent planes...expect to arrive at the 'site' in a couple of hours.

Ingrid


----------



## Passepartout

Looks like chance of MH370 debris off Australia, W. of Perth. Stay tuned.


----------



## MuranoJo

BMWguynw said:


> I'm coming late to this party, but found this article quite interesting.  What do you experts think?
> 
> http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
> 
> Dave



This has also been my guess since I first saw the article.  Just as I was starting to post this, I noticed there is some news from Australia, so will have to check that out.


----------



## camachinist

AMSA's John Young now speaking. 

Given the information currently out, what remains is identifying the debris and, if that of MH370, backtracking the currents to a potential search area.

Information on Ocean currents in the area from Wood's Hole:

http://www.whoi.edu/sbl/liteSite.do?litesiteid=81593

Search area is 2500km southwest of Perth. One P3 Orion on station and one US P8 Poseidon on station or near station. Expecting a total of four aircraft on station this afternoon.

The Payne Stewart scenario, if this is indeed MH370, would appear to become more likely, IMO.

Mr. Young says largest image size appears to be 24 meters in one direction, so around 75' (later stated on CNN as 62'). Poor visibility currently in area. 

Flight time for search aircraft (P3) from Perth is four hours and it can remain on station for up to two hours before requiring return. The P8, a Boeing 737 derivative, can get there a lot faster and loiter similarly or longer, as well as has newer investigative equipment. 

Press conference continuing. Go Australia!


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

deleted .....


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Here's another prediction - a number of folks that have posted their theories on this thread are going to be dropping off the thread.
> 
> Alternatively, if my theory was incorrect, I'll be back here to admit I was incorrect.



Frankly the news "reports" have been 98% pure speculation. There's actually very little we do know.  Until the plane is found we'll never know.

I've chosen to step away from this because it's taking too much of my time and we're just going to continue to go around in circles using whatever reported speculation to point fingers to what we believe.  I'll be more then happy to come back to admit what I believe to be the most likely outcome was incorrect.  However, that may be a very long time to possibly never.

There are 2 major categories of theories: emergency event vs. nefarious event.  FWIW, I still personally believe and lean towards a catastrophic emergency event.


----------



## tompalm

If that is the wreckage, there should have been an ELT going off, or even a transmitter from the black box.  There was no mention of that in the news.  I will be surprised if it is the wreckage.  Also, if the plane crashed into the ocean or land, satellites should have picked up the ELT and they should have found it earlier. 

Hopefully I am wrong and they find MH 370 and we don't have to worry about terrorists using that plane to make an attack.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Agreed, and no ping. And with each passing day, this theory becomes more and more likely.



How does each passing day make this theory more and more likely?  Couldn't it be argued that with each passing day it's more and more likely that it's on the deep ocean floor somewhere in the Indian Ocean?  If it's on land somewhere it should be easier to locate with intensive searching then if it's on the bottom of the ocean floor.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Huh? Isolated, uninhibited means just that. They're aren't human beings on every square mile of planet.



You not only need a runway long enough to handle a 777, but you need one strong enough.  That's a very heavy aircraft and if it's a soft runway (dirt, clay, grass, etc.) the landing gear would sink in on landing causing the aircraft to be torn apart.  You would also need a way to quickly hide it from our satellites which you know are looking, and that would take a very big hangar.  I guess it could be covered with camouflage, but I would hope our spy satellites would be able to detect something that big being camouflaged.  All that makes it highly unlikely it could've safetly been landed and hidden on some remote unihabited island.


----------



## Clemson Fan

All right, good night!


----------



## Talent312

Gilligan's Island: That's an atoll on the North side of Oahu... way too far.
More Likely: The island where Amelia Earhart lived out her days.

My Theory: No one here, and no media outlet, has mentioned it, yet... Alien Abduction.
It has been documented in the "X-Files" and to me, seems provable or unprovable as any.

<ducking>
... with apologies to anyone offended.


----------



## Phydeaux

tompalm said:


> If that is the wreckage, there should have been an ELT going off, or even a transmitter from the black box.  There was no mention of that in the news.  I will be surprised if it is the wreckage.  Also, if the plane crashed into the ocean or land, satellites should have picked up the ELT and they should have found it earlier.
> 
> Hopefully I am wrong and they find MH 370 and we don't have to worry about terrorists using that plane to make an attack.



Agreed.....And didn't Chinese satellites pick up "wreckage" days ago?


----------



## Phydeaux

And what's the purpose of these crap satellite images?? 





*Here's my home, taken by Google Earth.* 





*Note 24m diagonal line. Note the well head cap, aprox. 6" in diameter. *

Yes, I realize the imagery shot for Google Earth is different than what is being shot for search & recovery. But do you really think this is the best satellite imagery search & recovery can produce?


----------



## Patri

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> What would you do if you were in full command at some remote location and you were suddenly responsible for dealing with 200 corpses?



That's the point. Burning them would draw attention from the smoke. Burying them is too much work. I guess they could leave them in a pile or throw them in the sea. Just makes this scenario seem less likely.


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> \ That's a very heavy aircraft and if it's a soft runway (dirt, clay, grass, etc.) the landing gear would sink in on landing causing the aircraft to be torn apart.



How many 5000' + runways do you know of that are dirt, clay, grass, or any surface other than concrete?


----------



## csxjohn

Talent312 said:


> Gilligan's Island: That's an atoll on the North side of Oahu... way too far.
> More Likely: The island where Amelia Earhart lived out her days.
> 
> My Theory: No one here, and no media outlet, has mentioned it, yet... Alien Abduction.
> It has been documented in the "X-Files" and to me, seems provable or unprovable as any.
> 
> <ducking>
> ... with apologies to anyone offended.



And don't forget time travel! 

The Odyssey of flight 33

http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi3520833305/?ref_=tt_ov_vi

At about 6:00 in Rod comes in and explains.

 I saw it years ago on The Twilight Zone.  An aircraft that hit the exact right speed disappeared into a different time.

I can still picture the crew looking out the plane windows and seeing dinosaurs.

With 1:40 left Rod comes in again and sums it up.


Good advice, keep calm and pray.



And don't forget The Last Flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g6RltYf_Sk


Since I saw it on TV it must be true.


----------



## ace2000

Clemson Fan - thanks for starting the thread and for posting the Goodfellow theory.  I've seen it referred to many times by the media since you've posted.  

What the h* do any of us know?   The thread has been a fun read.


----------



## Phydeaux

ace2000 said:


> Clemson Fan - thanks for starting the thread and for posting the Goodfellow theory.  I've seen it referred to many times by the media since you've posted.
> 
> *What the h* do any of us know?*   The thread has been a fun read.



Exactly as much as Goodfellow


----------



## SMHarman

csxjohn said:


> And don't forget time travel!



http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1603863&postcount=115

Apparently, they are on that.


SMHarman said:


> Malaysia Airlines Expands Investigation To Include General Scope Of Space, Time
> 
> http://www.theonion.com/articles/malaysian-airlines-expands-investigation-to-includ,35524/
> 
> KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA—Following a host of conflicting reports in the wake of the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 last Saturday, representatives from the Kuala Lumpur–based carrier acknowledged they had widened their investigation into the vanished Boeing 777 aircraft today to encompass not only the possibilities of mechanical failure, pilot error, terrorist activity, or a botched hijacking, but also the overarching scope of space, time, and humankind’s place in the universe.
> 
> “We continue to do everything in our power and explore every possible lead—both Cartesian and phenomenological—to locate the aircraft as quickly as possible,” said Malaysia’s civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, who went on to say that authorities were still actively seeking tips from anyone claiming knowledge related either to the flight, or to the mechanisms by which consciousness arises, or to the question of why anything physical and finite exists instead of nothing at all. “At this stage, we can’t rule anything out: not crew interference with the transponders, not a catastrophic electrical failure, not the emergence of a complex topological feature of space-time such as an Einstein-Rosen bridge that could have deposited the flight at any location in the universe or a different time period altogether, nothing.”
> 
> “Could a parallel universe have immediately swelled up from random cosmological fluctuation according to the multiverse theory and swallowed the flight into its folds, or could ice have built up on an airspeed sensor? Those are both options we are currently considering,” Rahman added. “Everything’s on the table. That is, insofar as anything exists at all, which we’re also looking into.”


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> Exactly as much as Goodfellow



LOL - and thanks goes to you also, the thread has been fun and interesting.


----------



## SMHarman

Phydeaux said:


> How many 5000' + runways do you know of that are dirt, clay, grass, or any surface other than concrete?


I don't know that many runways but there are a good number of aircraft designed for dirt runways that need a lot of runway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_C-17_Globemaster_III

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_C-5_Galaxy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace_146

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_C-130_Hercules

The common feature is a high wing reducing ingestion of dust and dirt into the engines when on the ground.


----------



## csxjohn

SMHarman said:


> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1603863&postcount=115
> 
> Apparently, they are on that.



Thanks, I missed that post.  With so many I find that I have done some skimming.

It sounds like they might even branch out to include Voodoo.


----------



## SMHarman

Phydeaux said:


> And what's the purpose of these crap satellite images??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Here's my home, taken by Google Earth.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Note 24m diagonal line. Note the well head cap, aprox. 6" in diameter. *
> 
> Yes, I realize the imagery shot for Google Earth is different than what is being shot for search & recovery. But do you really think this is the best satellite imagery search & recovery can produce?



Google is not using Satellite images for those pictures of your home.  They are using images taken from planes flying 1000ft above your home at that resolution, blended with sat images as they pull further back out to wider areas.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> How many 5000' + runways do you know of that are dirt, clay, grass, or any surface other than concrete?



Many uncontrolled runways in remote locations are something other than concrete.  How do I know you ask, because I've landed at several uncontrolled runways when I dabbled with learning to fly a Cessna that are just that: dirt, clay and grass.

There are also many uncontrolled runways that are simply asphalt not supported by any underlying concrete.  I doubt a 777 could land on one of those runways.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Yes, I realize the imagery shot for Google Earth is different than what is being shot for search & recovery. But do you really think this is the best satellite imagery search & recovery can produce?



You're right, it is a pretty crappy image from a commercial satellite.  They do probably have much better images from our military and spy satellites, but they're not going to show us that.  Why you ask, because the resolution and capabilities of those satellites are highly classified and I'm sure they don't want to release those images to the public which would show the public and other countries allowing them to figure out just exactly what those capabilities are.

However, I'm sure they're using those images to point the search efforts in the right direction.  It kind of makes you wonder why so much effort is being focused towards the Southern Indian Ocean?  To me, that's making the general Payne Stewart theory that everybody on the plane was dead and the plane just flew until it ran out of fuel and then dropped into the ocean look better and better.


----------



## Clemson Fan

SMHarman said:


> The common feature is a high wing reducing ingestion of dust and dirt into the engines when on the ground.



Another common feature of those aircraft is the landing gear that are very low riding that come out from the main belly of the aircraft.  They're designed to handle some pretty rough runways which is something a 777 is not designed for.


----------



## ace2000

Interesting story on the "source" of the photos...

http://www.smh.com.au/national/us-s...ource-that-sparked-search-20140320-355zt.html


----------



## Clemson Fan

ace2000 said:


> Interesting story on the "source" of the photos...
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/national/us-s...ource-that-sparked-search-20140320-355zt.html



CNN is reporting it as a commercial satellite image.  Here's an excerpt.

The commercial satellite images, taken Sunday, show two indistinct objects of "reasonable size," with the largest about 24 meters (79 feet) across, said John Young, general manager of emergency response for the Australian maritime agency.


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> Many uncontrolled runways in remote l
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PHP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ocations are something other than concrete.  How do I know you ask, because I've landed at several uncontrolled runways when I dabbled with learning to fly a Cessna that are just that: dirt, clay and grass.
> 
> There are also many uncontrolled runways that are simply asphalt not supported by any underlying concrete.  I doubt a 777 could land on one of those runways.



I'm well aware, I live close to one. You missed my point. Of the runways you reference that are not concrete, how many of them are 5000+ long?


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> You're right, it is a pretty crappy image from a commercial satellite.  They do probably have much better images from our military and spy satellites, but they're not going to show us that.  Why you ask, because the resolution and capabilities of those satellites are highly classified and I'm sure they don't want to release those images to the public which would show the public and other countries allowing them to figure out just exactly what those capabilities are.
> 
> However, I'm sure they're using those images to point the search efforts in the right direction.  It kind of makes you wonder why so much effort is being focused towards the Southern Indian Ocean?  To me, that's making the general Payne Stewart theory that everybody on the plane was dead and the plane just flew until it ran out of fuel and then dropped into the ocean look better and better.



I know. I've had interesting conversation with a U2 and SR71 Blackbird pilot. They shared what they could with me, and let's just say it was astounding.

My point was, we certainly have no right to see *the good stuff*, but how about something just a bit better?


----------



## Passepartout

You guys with your 'the plane is whole, on the ground in flyable condition at an unchecked and uncontrolled airport' are missing some details. It might be able to land on 5000 feet, but it won't take off in 5000 feet, and there would need to be a large stash of fairly fresh jet fuel there. If this 777 flew the 7-8 hours they say it did, it's gonna be pretty thirsty before going anywhere else.

The examination of the area where the satellite sightings occured will resume at daylight there. That's about 3 p.m. ET.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Passepartout said:


> You guys with your 'the plane is whole, on the ground in flyable condition at an unchecked and uncontrolled airport' are missing some details. It might be able to land on 5000 feet, but it won't take off in 5000 feet, and there would need to be a large stash of fairly fresh jet fuel there. If this 777 flew the 7-8 hours they say it did, it's gonna be pretty thirsty before going anywhere else.
> 
> The examination of the area where the satellite sightings occured will resume at daylight there. That's about 3 p.m. ET.



Yep.  If it was put down on a runway it has to be long enough for takeoff, in good enough condition to handle a landing and takeoff of a commercial widebody jet, and provide a suitable place to conceal the plane from aerial surveillance.  I don't think the fuel needs to be onsite; it could refueled over time.  

The abandoned runway in an uninhabited island doesn't work for me. If it were parked it has to be somewhere on the mainland.  And if there were a mainland site that meets those criteria, how do you fly the plane there without having people see you getting it there?

The more I think about it, the more implausible the "stolen" aircraft theory seems to be.  Or if it was stolen, perhaps it was taken by underwear gnomes.


----------



## ScoopKona

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The more I think about it, the more implausible the "stolen" aircraft theory seems to be.  Of if it was stolen, perhaps it was taken by underwear gnomes.



Well, at least then we'd know what "phase two" entails. Brings a whole new meaning to "dirty bomb."


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Nothing in the story that  you didn't already read upthread.  Who needs the  BBC when you've TUGgers are at hand???

An MH370 theory that was simple, compelling and wrong



> *On Tuesday a "startlingly  simple" theory explaining the disappearance of the Malaysia Airlines  jet began making the rounds on social media and among journalists  interested in the story. According to a fellow named Chris Goodfellow,  the plane caught fire, and the pilot headed to a nearby airport to save  the craft, eventually crashing into the Indian Ocean.
> *
> Goodfellow originally posted his theory on his Google+ page on 14 March, but it picked up steam when it was reposted on the linking site Reddit. On Tuesday Wired magazine edited and ran the post under the headline A Startlingly Simple Theory about the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet.
> 
> Goodfellow, whom Wired identifies as having "20 years'  experience as a Canadian Class-1 instrumented-rated pilot for  multi-engine planes", begins with a dismissive wave toward the aviation  experts who have been clogging the news networks.
> 
> "There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines  Flight 370," he writes. "Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe  the analysis on CNN; it's almost disturbing."
> 
> He says that he "tends to look for a simpler explanation".
> 
> He then theorises that a fire, possibly electrical or from an  overheated tyre on take-off, sent smoke into the cockpit shortly after  the crew signs off with Malaysian air traffic controllers.
> 
> The pilot executes a sharp left turn and heads for a nearby  emergency landing spot, while turning off electronics - such as the  transponder - in order to isolate the problem.
> 
> A quick search of Google Earth gives Goodfellow a candidate: Pulau Langkawi.
> 
> "Surprisingly, none of the reporters, officials, or other  pilots interviewed have looked at this from the pilot's viewpoint: If  something went wrong, where would he go?" he writes. "Thanks to Google  Earth I spotted Langkawi in about 30 seconds, zoomed in and saw how long  the runway was and I just instinctively knew this pilot knew this  airport."
> 
> All the pieces fit into place, he writes. The climb to  45,000ft? A last-ditch attempt to put out the fire. Where is the plane  now? After the pilots were overcome by smoke, the plane continued on  autopilot over Langkawi and headed west into the Indian Ocean, where it  eventually ran out of fuel and crashed.
> …
> Goodfellow's theory continued to spread across media, both social and mainstream.
> 
> "I buy this new MH370 theory of an onboard fire," tweeted the New York Times's Josh Barro.
> 
> The theory "fits the facts" and "makes sense", writes Business Insider's Henry Blodget. "It requires no fantastically brilliant pre-planning or execution or motives."
> 
> The Atlantic's James Fallows agrees.
> 
> "I think there's doubt about everything concerning this  flight. But his explanation makes better sense than anything else I've  heard so far," he writes. "It's one of the few that make me think, Yes, I could see things happening that way."
> 
> Only it very likely didn't happen that way - as considerable  information that was already in the public realm contradicts the story.  By Tuesday evening, writers and commentators were picking Goodfellow's  post apart.
> 
> "Goodfellow's account is emotionally  compelling, and it is based on some of the most important facts that  have been established so far," writes Jeff Wise in Slate. "And it is simple - to a fault."
> 
> "While it's true that MH370 did turn toward Langkawi and  wound up overflying it, whoever was at the controls continued to  manoeuvre after that point as well, turning sharply right at VAMPI  waypoint, then left again at GIVAL," he says. "Such vigorous navigating  would have been impossible for unconscious men."
> 
> And:
> 
> _Goodfellow's theory fails further when one remembers the  electronic ping detected by the Inmarsat satellite at 8:11 on the  morning of March 8. According to analysis provided by the Malaysian and  United States governments, the pings narrowed the location of MH370 at  that moment to one of two arcs, one in Central Asia and the other in the  southern Indian Ocean. As MH370 flew from its original course toward  Langkawi, it was headed toward neither. Without human intervention -  which would go against Goodfellow's theory - it simply could not have  reached the position we know it attained at 8:11 a.m._
> 
> There still should have been a distress call, Greg Feith, a former National Transportation Safety Board crash investigator, told NBC News.
> 
> "Typically, with an electrical fire, you'll have smoke before  you have fire," he said. "You can do some troubleshooting. And if the  systems are still up and running, you can get off a mayday call" and  pilots can put on an oxygen mask, Feith said.
> 
> Nine hours after its first article on the subject Business Insider ran a follow-up, with reaction from pilots.
> 
> Michael G Fortune, a retired pilot who flew 777-200ERs like  the Malaysia plane, said it was unlikely the crew would have shut off  the transponders to deal with the fire.
> 
> "The checklist I utilized for smoke and fumes in the  B-777-200ER does not specifically address the transponder being turned  off," he said.
> 
> Another 777 pilot told the website that putting on oxygen  masks would have been the first priority for the crew, preventing them  from being incapacitated.
> 
> As long as there is no definitive word about the fate of  MH370, theories - from respected experts and amateurs relying on a hunch  and a little help from Google Earth - will continue to bounce around  the internet.
> 
> Some will catch on and go viral, until they are debunked or overtaken by new facts.


----------



## SMHarman

Passepartout said:


> You guys with your 'the plane is whole, on the ground in flyable condition at an unchecked and uncontrolled airport' are missing some details. It might be able to land on 5000 feet, but it won't take off in 5000 feet, and there would need to be a large stash of fairly fresh jet fuel there. If this 777 flew the 7-8 hours they say it did, it's gonna be pretty thirsty before going anywhere else.
> 
> The examination of the area where the satellite sightings occured will resume at daylight there. That's about 3 p.m. ET.



You're not the only one thinking that...
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1603241&postcount=46


----------



## SMHarman

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yep.  If it was put down on a runway it has to be long enough for takeoff, in good enough condition to handle a landing and takeoff of a commercial widebody jet, and provide a suitable place to conceal the plane from aerial surveillance.  I don't think the fuel needs to be onsite; it could refueled over time.
> 
> The abandoned runway in an uninhabited island doesn't work for me. If it were parked it has to be somewhere on the mainland.  And if there were a mainland site that meets those criteria, how do you fly the plane there without having people see you getting it there?
> 
> The more I think about it, the more implausible the "stolen" aircraft theory seems to be.  Or if it was stolen, perhaps it was taken by underwear gnomes.



Those are the sort of runways you arrive at with enough fuel for the return leg as Jet-A is way pricier there than at your main hub airport.

Even say American Airlines flying MIA > NAS > MIA will fuel that plane in MIA for the round trip and maybe top off in NAS if necessary.  The fuel coming by pipeline into MIA is way cheaper and way easier to get there.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

SMHarman said:


> Those are the sort of runways you arrive at with enough fuel for the return leg as Jet-A is way pricier there than at your main hub airport.
> 
> Even say American Airlines flying MIA > NAS > MIA will fuel that plane in MIA for the round trip and maybe top off in NAS if necessary.  The fuel coming by pipeline into MIA is way cheaper and way easier to get there.



OK - so it would need to be in a location where they can get Jet-A to the plane for refueling.  I still think it doesn't have to be a pipeline, but it does have to be a location where they can score a truckload of Jet-A regularly to be able to get the plane refueled.  And that certainly eliminates all of the remote, uninhabited islands, since nobody's barging Jet-A to those locales.  

So if someone intended to fly the plane again, the place the plane was flown to needs to be a civilized locale.


******

Thinking about the plane wreckage possibly being found in the south Indian Ocean west of Australia ....

I started wondering if this might be the work of a suicidal psychopath.  Not enough for this person to just fly the plane into the ocean, taking out everyone else at the same time.  No, maybe this person derived pleasure from flying a plane full of terrorized people for hours, psychologically feasting on their misery for as long as possible, until the plane runs out of fuel.


----------



## DeniseM

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I started wondering if this might be the work of a suicidal psychopath.  Not enough for this person to just fly the plane into the ocean, taking out everyone else at the same time.  No, maybe this person derived pleasure from flying a plane full of terrorized people for hours, psychologically feasting on their misery for as long as possible, until the plane runs out of fuel.



What about the co-pilot - did he kill him?  The co-pilot was about to be married to a young attractive female pilot - hard to believe he wanted to die...


----------



## Passepartout

No one has verified that the surface blip seen by satellite 2 days ago is part of the 777. But assuming it is, I like some variation of the Payne Stewart scenario. A decompression in the wee hours of the morning that takes out anyone in a position to take command. The plane flies along with a load of incapacitated people on a predetermined flight path, until fuel is exhausted. Splash. 

Why it was on the flight path it was on is the mystery that may never be known. The cockpit voice recorder overwrites all but the last 2 hours (which may be silent), and if it were simply on autopilot, there wouldn't be much of interest on the data recorder.


----------



## Beefnot

Given that I used to watch "Air Emergency" a lot, I can buy that perhaps the plane experienced some sort of monumental malfunction. What if it simultaneously lost communication and pressurization (and perhaps there was also even a fire), and the autopilot just when bazonkers. In the dark. That would be pure horror. And eventual certain death.

Of course that probably runs counter to some of the reported facts, one of which was supposedly the course being manually changed 12 minutes before the co-pilot signed off. I have a question about that by the way, how do they know that this manual manipulation happened and precisely when? And if they know that, then didn't they know that at the time this manual manipulation had occurred? Wouldn't that have triggered some sort of alarm then, prompting air traffic control to ask "what the hell are you doing up there?".


----------



## Clemson Fan

Beefnot said:


> Of course that probably runs counter to some of the reported facts, one of which was supposedly the course being manually changed 12 minutes before the co-pilot signed off. I have a question about that by the way, how do they know that this manual manipulation happened and precisely when? And if they know that, then didn't they know that at the time this manual manipulation had occurred? Wouldn't that have triggered some sort of alarm then, prompting air traffic control to ask "what the hell are you doing up there?".



They don't know.  That reporting was pure speculative crapola like 95% of the "reporting" has been.  I read in later reports on CNN that the westward turn may have been programmed as much as 12 minutes before they signed off or it may have been programmed after they signed off and after the transponder went silent.  They don't really know!


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Beefnot said:


> Of course that probably runs counter to some of the reported facts, one of which was supposedly the course being manually changed 12 minutes before the co-pilot signed off. I have a question about that by the way, how do they know that this manual manipulation happened and precisely when? And if they know that, then didn't they know that at the time this manual manipulation had occurred? Wouldn't that have triggered some sort of alarm then, prompting air traffic control to ask "what the hell are you doing up there?".



They know that the plane was being navigated because they have radar tracking as it flew westwards towards the Indian Ocean. And because the course the plane was following was not a straight line but went between established navigation waypoints, either the place was being actively flown by a pilot along that course, or the autopilot had those waypoints programmed into it.  Not to mention the changes in elevation.

As to ATC, the plane diverted after it left Malaysian ATC and before it checked in with Vietnamese ATC.  IOW, the plane appears to have been commandeered at precisely where there was no ATC contact with the plane.  That, of course, suggests that whoever took over the plane was in the cockpit at that time.  No one in the passenger cabin would know when that handoff was occurring so they could choose that moment to make their move.

*******

If it does turn out that the plane went down west of Australia, then it starts to appear that someone inside the cockpit commandeered the plane as it left Malaysian airspace, struck a course toward the Indian Ocean, possibly also doing low-altitude flying to minimize the chances of being detected by primary radar.  Then upon reaching the ocean once again, returned to cruising altitude and turned southward, continuing on that course until the plane ran out of fuel. 

If that is an accurate statement of events, then what is the most reasonable explanation to match those observations?


----------



## Beefnot

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> If that is an accurate statement of events, then what is the most reasonable explanation to match those observations?


 
How about:
(1) Monumental malfunction, including autopilot going bazonkers, coincidentally after signoff

(2) Suicide mission conspiracy between pilot and co-pilot.

(3) Remote control fully takeover of the aircraft.  Ooh, now that's a doozy.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Beefnot said:


> (2) Suicide mission conspiracy between pilot and co-pilot.



Why both of them? Seems to me that one of them could easily take out the other.

Or flight attendant is in on a conspiracy with one other person (who is a trained pilot).  Arranges for the  pilot to open the cockpit (e.,g, to serve food or a beverage) and cohort rushes the cockpit while the door is open.


----------



## easyrider

Israel thinks flight 370 was stolen and that Iran is likely involved. 

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-el-al-expert-iran-likely-involved-in-mh-370/

Iran does have the technology and experience to spoof drones. They did manage to spoof and land one of our drones in 2011. This same gps hack could be used to spoof radar. This was brought up last year in regards to aircraft security.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...e-to-hackers-spoofing-planes-out-of-thin-air/



> “Anyone can technically transmit these messages,” says Andrei Costin, a Ph.D. candidate at the French security institute Eurecom who plans to give a talk called “Ghosts In The Air (Traffic)” at Black Hat. “It’s practically possible for a medium-technical savvy person to mount an attack and impersonate a plane that’s not there.”



It could also have been a testing of a device called a non nuclear e bomb. If something like this was used then all electrical devices would have stopped working causing the airplane to drop like a rock. The debrie field could be very small in type of crash as there isn't an explosion. The black boxes would be non operational. 
Here is how to make your own  mini e pulse generator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miF014yRJhs

Bill


----------



## tompalm

Beefnot said:


> How about:
> (1) Monumental malfunction, including autopilot going bazonkers, coincidentally after signoff
> 
> (2) Suicide mission conspiracy between pilot and co-pilot.
> 
> (3) Remote control fully takeover of the aircraft.  Ooh, now that's a doozy.



I think you are watching to much stupid TV.  This is what I believe that was stated above:

Israel thinks flight 370 was stolen and that Iran is likely involved. 

Maybe I watched too much 24 when it was on TV.


----------



## tompalm

Beefnot said:


> Given that I used to watch "Air Emergency" a lot, I can buy that perhaps the plane experienced some sort of monumental malfunction. What if it simultaneously lost communication and pressurization (and perhaps there was also even a fire), and the autopilot just when bazonkers. .



I have never seen that show, but I think they must make stuff up or use the dumbest pilots in the world.  Any of the things mentioned above would not be a big deal.  Airline pilots are trained for all those things.  Autopilots going off and trimming out of control is something that pilots get in the simulator all the time.  All you have to do is hit the disconnect and fly manually.  Every year pilots get an emergency descent because of a rapid depressurization in the sim.  If anything happened that caused them to lose control, they would be in the ocean right where it happened and not still flying hours later.


----------



## Beefnot

tompalm said:


> I have never seen that show, but I think they must make stuff up or use the dumbest pilots in the world. Any of the things mentioned above would not be a big deal. Airline pilots are trained for all those things. Autopilots going off and trimming out of control is something that pilots get in the simulator all the time. All you have to do is hit the disconnect and fly manually. Every year pilots get an emergency descent because of a rapid depressurization in the sim. If anything happened that caused them to lose control, they would be in the ocean right where it happened and not still flying hours later.



Air Emergency was a docuseries about true, actual air disasters and near-disasters with commercial airliners over the last 30-40 years or so. Was very, very fascinating. Dumb things done by pilots (like letting a boy in the captains chair partially unattended) and all manners of horrifying mechanical failures, among other things. Try to find episodes on Netflix or something and you will discover that crazy stuff can happen that not even skilled pilots can handle sometimes.


----------



## Clemson Fan

tompalm said:


> Israel thinks flight 370 was stolen and that Iran is likely involved.



NO, Isaac Yeffet thinks flight 370 was stolen by Iran!  That's what one Israeli thinks, NOT what Israel thinks!

That's like saying the United States thinks TWA 800 was shot down by a wayward Navy missile because that's what Pierre Salinger thought.

Geez!


----------



## Chrispee

tompalm said:


> Any of the things mentioned above would not be a big deal.  Airline pilots are trained for all those things.



Fire or smoke in the cabin would most certainly be a big deal to any commercial pilot. A serious fire/smoke event could cripple an airliner in short order, and it can be extremely difficult to identify the source of the problem.

Having said that, it's hard to imagine the sequence of manoeuvres of the aircraft being consistent with fire/smoke.

I've been quietly following this thread, it's been an interesting read and there are lots of thought provoking ideas being put forth.  I'll add mine:

I believe that the most plausible reason for everything that transpired is hypoxia.  I'm not sure if the hypoxia was a result of a hijacking gone bad (bullet, window seal broken etc), pilot suicide, or if it was just a depressurization problem that was not dealt with effectively by the pilots.  Hypoxia could account for the strange decisions made by the pilots, and would be consistent with the plane flying on until all fuel was expended.  

Only my theory to add to the mix, but I have enjoyed reading everybody else's ideas on the subject.


----------



## Clemson Fan

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Nothing in the story that  you didn't already read upthread.  Who needs the  BBC when you've TUGgers are at hand???
> 
> An MH370 theory that was simple, compelling and wrong



Even though Goodfellow's theory has some holes in it and I have no doubt is not 100% correct, I gotta give the guy credit for coming up with the first plausible explanation that I heard as to why this plane seemingly flew on for 7 hours in silence.  That's the one thing that always perplexed me from the beginning.  Why would a hijacker, suicidal pilot or terrorist fly the plane in complete silence for 7 hours?  It appears that the plane continued flying on either that northerly or southerly arc for 7 hours.  It does appear that the people who are privy to much more information then we are really focusing in on that southerly route to the remote Southern Indian Ocean as being the most likely route.

So, when he came out with his distress theory and that everybody was probably dead on the plane and the plane just stabilized itself like they're built to do and then just flew in whichever direction it was last pointed in until it ran out of fuel and dropped from the sky ala Payne Stewart, it just really made sense to me.  Frankly, it still does!  Does his theory have whatever probably caused the distress completely wrong, almost certainly yes.  However, the part of his theory that everybody was dead as to why it flew south for 7 hours into the Indian Ocean I think is right on.  What caused the distress on the plane leading to everybody's death?  Who knows?

The plane stealing to use as a WMD theories I just don't buy at all.  The logistics something like that would take not only to pull off the theft, but to keep it hidden over a several week to month timeframe I just think make that theory highly highly improbable.  That would take a fairly sized number of people involved in the conspiracy and the more people you have involved, the more likely it is to be uncovered.


----------



## ace2000

Clemson Fan said:


> Even though Goodfellow's theory has some holes in it and I have no doubt is not 100% correct, I gotta give the guy credit for coming up with the first plausible explanation that I heard as to why this plane seemingly flew on for 7 hours in silence. That's the one thing that always perplexed me from the beginning. Why would a hijacker, suicidal pilot or terrorist fly the plane in complete silence for 7 hours?


 
I'd be curious to know where you think the "holes" are. On your question about why a suicidal pilot would fly the plane in complete silence for 7 hours - my theory goes back to post #4. He killed everyone to make a public political statement - he was a follower of the man who was jailed the very same day he flew the plane. He even was in attendance at the man's trial the day he flew the plane. It was also reported that his wife and kids moved out of their home that same day.

So, what are the odds of those incidents being a factor? I'd say the odds are much greater than the chance of an fire onboard the plane with no radio contact about the fire. An accidental cockpit fire on board a commercial airliner is extremely unlikely. I believe I heard somewhere that has never happened before.


----------



## Beefnot

Clemson Fan said:


> The plane stealing to use as a WMD theories I just don't buy at all. The logistics something like that would take not only to pull off the theft, but to keep it hidden over a several week to month timeframe I just think make that theory highly highly improbable. *That would take a fairly sized number of people involved in the conspiracy *and the more people you have involved, the more likely it is to be uncovered.



Remember 9/11?




ace2000 said:


> I'd be curious to know where you think the "holes" are. On your question about why a suicidal pilot would fly the plane in complete silence for 7 hours - my theory goes back to post #4. He *killed everyone to make a public political statement...*



Yet he flew in radio silence. Odd way to make a political statement. Or I suppose he expects rescuers to retrieve his suicide note from the wreckage...


----------



## ace2000

Beefnot said:


> Remember 9/11?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet he flew in radio silence. Odd way to make a political statement. Or I suppose he expects rescuers to retrieve his suicide note from the wreckage...



Fair points.  First, I'm not sure the Malaysians have released all the information.  Secondly, there is still lots of time and ways for the story to come out.

What's the meaning of the 9/11 reference?


----------



## JudyH

I agree with ace2000.  Those personal factors, follower of the political man who then was arrested for homosexual charges, wife then moved out.  Perhaps the pilot also had a sexual relationship with this man...then upset, maybe being found out too, wife leaves him, commits suicide.


----------



## ace2000

JudyH said:


> I agree with ace2000.  Those personal factors, follower of the political man who then was arrested for homosexual charges, wife then moved out.  Perhaps the pilot also had a sexual relationship with this man...then upset, maybe being found out too, wife leaves him, commits suicide.



  I'll go along with some of that.  The man that was jailed is currently the number one opposition leader in Malaysia.  The reports are that they met a few times prior, but nobody is suggesting they had that type of relationship.  Most believe the man was falsely accused and is now jailed on trumped up charges.


----------



## Bikeguy

Deleted. Yes


----------



## Clemson Fan

ace2000 said:


> I'd be curious to know where you think the "holes" are. On your question about why a suicidal pilot would fly the plane in complete silence for 7 hours - my theory goes back to post #4. He killed everyone to make a public political statement - he was a follower of the man who was jailed the very same day he flew the plane. He even was in attendance at the man's trial the day he flew the plane. It was also reported that his wife and kids moved out of their home that same day.
> 
> So, what are the odds of those incidents being a factor? I'd say the odds are much greater than the chance of an fire onboard the plane with no radio contact about the fire. An accidental cockpit fire on board a commercial airliner is extremely unlikely. I believe I heard somewhere that has never happened before.



Maybe, but what kind of political statement is it to effectively cause the plane to disappear by flying and crashing it to one of probably the most remote places on Earth?  Why not dive it into a government building ala 9/11?


----------



## Phydeaux

Phydeaux said:


> Agreed.....And didn't Chinese satellites pick up "wreckage" days ago?



Once again, no wreckage no ping found. Surprise surprise.

Still sticking with my original theory, and without any compromises


----------



## Clemson Fan

Beefnot said:


> Remember 9/11?



Yup, I do.  That's why I believe in a post 9/11 world that there's no way in hell 239 passengers would let a hijacker fly a hijacked plane for 7 hours.  They would've taken action unless of course they were all dead.

I said in a previous post I could possibly buy a pilot suicide or even a terrorist act/hijacking except for the plane flying for 7 hours to what appears to be one of the most remote places on Earth.  Maybe the pilot botched the plan of killing everybody first through asphyxiation and he accidentally killed himself too?

I really don't know!  That 7 hour flight to the middle of nowhere just perplexes me a great deal if it was an actual hijacking or pilot suicide which is why I lean back to more of some type of distress theory.


----------



## ace2000

Clemson Fan said:


> Maybe the pilot botched the plan of killing everybody first through asphyxiation and he accidentally killed himself too?



I've wondered about that also.  Does anyone know if it has been confirmed if the flight diversion was programmed before or after the altitude climb to 45K?  I guess it's possible that there's no way to know that.


----------



## Beefnot

ace2000 said:


> What's the meaning of the 9/11 reference?


 
The 9/11 reference was in response to Clemson Fan.



Clemson Fan said:


> _The plane stealing to use as a WMD theories I just don't buy at all. *The logistics something like that would take not only to pull off the theft, but to keep it hidden over a several week to month timeframe I just think make that theory highly highly improbable. That would take a fairly sized number of people involved in the conspiracy *and the more people you have involved, the more likely it is to be uncovered._


----------



## Beefnot

ace2000 said:


> I've wondered about that also. Does anyone know if it has been confirmed if the flight diversion was programmed before or after the altitude climb to 45K? I guess it's possible that there's no way to know that.


 
I forget if someone answered this already but how do they know that the flight diversion was manually programmed vs. a catastrophic malfunction?  Does any time an alteration to flight path is entered, an electronic communication is transmitted?  And if so, then why didn't anyone notice or address it at the time it occurred?


----------



## Clemson Fan

Beefnot said:


> I forget if someone answered this already but how do they know that the flight diversion was manually programmed vs. a catastrophic malfunction?  Does any time an alteration to flight path is entered, an electronic communication is transmitted?  And if so, then why didn't anyone notice or address it at the time it occurred?



Good question.  Reports I've seen on this have been conflicting.


----------



## Beefnot

Clemson Fan said:


> Good question. Reports I've seen on this have been conflicting.


 
Or what if the pilot misentered the coordinates that caused the supposed super hard turn?  Could the programming in of such a severe course alteration have freaked out the computer and caused multiple systems to shut down or malfunction immediately before, during, or after that hard turn initiated?


----------



## Clemson Fan

Beefnot said:


> The 9/11 reference was in response to Clemson Fan.[/I]



Yes, I get it.  With 9/11, though, the plan was kept in complete secrecy until it was hatched and then once it was hatched it was over with in a couple of hours.  Even in that short few hours, the passengers on United 93 were smart enough to figure it out and at least thwart that part of the plan.  Maybe they planned this to be like some 9/11 plot to use the plane as a weapon and part of that plan was to kill all the passengers on board so they wouldn't be disruptive and they just botched that part and killed themselves to in the process?

However, to steal a plane to be stuffed with WMD to be used at a later date as a weapon just seems highly improbable to me.  If you're in control of a fueled 777 in the air with nobody on the ground knowing what's going on, the time to use it as a weapon would be then.  Remember, we're talking weeks now (not hours) after the "plan" was hatched.  The logistics and people that would need to be involved in attempting something like that when you know the US and every other country is now alerted and are using their resources (spy satellites, intel, etc. etc.) to try and find that plane would be close to impossible to pull off.  It would really need to be some type of state sponsored terrorism to pull something like that off.  Then, of course, if it's state sponsored terrorism with a plan to use the plane as a weapon, then why such an elaborate theft/hoax?  If you're a state, I'm sure there are easier ways to acquire a plane.  I just don't buy it at all!


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Clemson Fan said:


> Yes, I get it.  With 9/11, though, the plan was kept in complete secrecy until it was hatched and then once it was hatched it was over with in a couple of hours.  Even in that short few hours, the passengers on United 93 were smart enough to figure it out and at least thwart that part of the plan.  Maybe they planned this to be like some 9/11 plot to use the plane as a weapon and part of that plan was to kill all the passengers on board so they wouldn't be disruptive and they just botched that part and killed themselves to in the process?
> 
> However, to steal a plane to be stuffed with WMD to be used at a later date as a weapon just seems highly improbable to me.  If you're in control of a fueled 777 in the air with nobody on the ground knowing what's going on, the time to use it as a weapon would be then.  Remember, we're talking weeks now (not hours) after the "plan" was hatched.  The logistics and people that would need to be involved in attempting something like that when you know the US and every other country is now alerted and are using their resources (spy satellites, intel, etc. etc.) to try and find that plane would be close to impossible to pull off.  It would really need to be some type of state sponsored terrorism to pull something like that off.  Then, of course, if it's state sponsored terrorism with a plan to use the plane as a weapon, then why such an elaborate theft/hoax?  If you're a state, I'm sure there are easier ways to acquire a plane.  I just don't buy it at all!



Totally agree.  With 9/11 you only need to keep secrecy within your cell - a limited group of people, who are presumably committed to your cause and whom you are able to vet and observe over a period of years.

If you're going to land and stow a plane somewhere, hundreds or thousands of people are not part of any cell are going to see the plane flying in and landing.  Unless you have complete control of the landing strip and air field, there are going to be more people associated with activities at the site who are not part of any cell.  

And if you posit that it must be an air strip that is under exclusive control of your cell, but yet is large enough and in good enough condition for take-off and landing of a 777, it would be pretty easy to locate where the plane is by process of elimination.  Because there are few, if any, airports that would meet those criteria.


----------



## ace2000

Beefnot said:


> I forget if someone answered this already but how do they know that the flight diversion was manually programmed vs. a catastrophic malfunction?  Does any time an alteration to flight path is entered, an electronic communication is transmitted?  And if so, then why didn't anyone notice or address it at the time it occurred?



I don't know if it's because of the recent search near Australia or some other reason.  But, it seems that the experts and talking heads are backing away from the malfunction theory.  Basically they're saying that there's no way for the plane to remain airborne for that long.

If you take that out of the equation, it had to be manually programmed.


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> However, to steal a plane to be stuffed with WMD to be used at a later date as a weapon just seems *highly improbable*to me.



At least you no longer consider it "crazy talk". 

For the record, my original theory didn't suggest loading it with WMD.


----------



## SMHarman

Beefnot said:


> Or what if the pilot misentered the coordinates that caused the supposed super hard turn?  Could the programming in of such a severe course alteration have freaked out the computer and caused multiple systems to shut down or malfunction immediately before, during, or after that hard turn initiated?



The Pilot tells the plane the waypoint to head to.  

The plane then safely executes an adjustment in heading to get to that waypoint.

While a 777 can execute a turn with a bank angle of 30+ degrees this is at the edge of the flight envelope and the FMC would not execute a turn at altitude and speed at that angle, more like 15degrees and likely this would barely be noticed by those sitting in the back.

FMC will not freak out at a change, it will execute it within the aircraft flight envelope and furthermore, within the comfort parameters programmed by the carrier.

A 777 would likely only be executing 30 deg banks if it needed to make them to stay in a holding stack or on a convolutied final approach or noise abatement takeoff or similar.  The controls apply greater resistance as the plane reaches the edge of the flight envelope as a tactile feedback to the pilot that they are pushing to hard.  The plane pushes back harder!



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Totally agree.  With 9/11 you only need to keep secrecy within your cell - a limited group of people, who are presumably committed to your cause and whom you are able to vet and observe over a period of years.
> 
> If you're going to land and stow a plane somewhere, hundreds or thousands of people are not part of any cell are going to see the plane flying in and landing.  Unless you have complete control of the landing strip and air field, there are going to be more people associated with activities at the site who are not part of any cell.
> 
> And if you posit that it must be an air strip that is under exclusive control of your cell, but yet is large enough and in good enough condition for take-off and landing of a 777, it would be pretty easy to locate where the plane is by process of elimination.  Because there are few, if any, airports that would meet those criteria.



Which gives you very few countries.  Somalia springs to mind.


----------



## MULTIZ321

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Nothing in the story that  you didn't already read upthread.  Who needs the  BBC when you've TUGgers are at hand???
> 
> An MH370 theory that was simple, compelling and wrong



"While it's true that MH370 did turn toward Langkawi and wound up overflying it, whoever was at the controls continued to manoeuvre after that point as well, turning sharply right at VAMPI waypoint, then left again at GIVAL," he says. "Such vigorous navigating would have been impossible for unconscious men."



Can someone who is a pilot or familiar with flying give an explanation  of "VAPMI Waypoint" and "Gival Waypoint".  How does the pilot know he/she is at these waypoints" ?  Is it an electronic monitor signal that appears on one of the airplane monitors?  How does an aircraft controller or a monitor know that these waypoints have been crossed?


Thanks for any elucidation on this.


Richard


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

SMHarman said:


> Which gives you very few countries.  Somalia springs to mind.


I thought of that about a week ago.  But the Horn of Africa appears to be beyond the maximum distance the plane could have flown.  

But that does raise the possibility that the whoever was piloting the plane was trying for Somalia but didn't make it.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> At least you no longer consider it "crazy talk".



LOL! Or maybe I just found a more polite way of saying it? :ignore:


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> LOL! Or maybe I just found a more polite way of saying it? :ignore:



Or, your theory changes based on developments. No harm no foul. When they eventually find (or tell us) where the parked aircraft is, just don't say "I told you so".


----------



## camachinist

> Can someone who is a pilot or familiar with flying give an explanation of "VAPMI Waypoint" and "Gival Waypoint". How does the pilot know he/she is at these waypoints" ? Is it an electronic monitor signal that appears on one of the airplane monitors? How does an aircraft controller or a monitor know that these waypoints have been crossed?



In layperson's terms, the FMS and EFIS operate a lot like the little Garmin GPS you might have in your car, of course in a far more complex manner. 

Just like you programming an 'address' into your Garmin and then the unit telling you to turn here, turn there, etc, etc, pilots (or the autopilot!) follow similar instructions which are provided to them by EFIS as they're flying along. Imagine when you're in a strange city and using your Garmin and following its instructions to the letter. Ever end up on a route that seems nonsensical when observed later on a map? If so, that mimics, to some degree, how it's possible to follow a similar route via waypoints. Here's a short description of what they are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waypoint#In_aviation

Instead of '1st street and 12th avenue', it's 'xxx latitude and yyy longitude'.

Disclaimer: Not a pilot but fly a fair amount and have pilot friends.


Back on the search going on, I was thinking this search might be a perfect test for the new Orion UAS or similar long range UAS which can handle the long ferry time and still loiter for hours. Pretty impressive technology and it doesn't need crew rest like the P8 Poseidon currently sitting at Perth for rest and maintenance.


----------



## SMHarman

MULTIZ321 said:


> "While it's true that MH370 did turn toward Langkawi and wound up overflying it, whoever was at the controls continued to manoeuvre after that point as well, turning sharply right at VAMPI waypoint, then left again at GIVAL," he says. "Such vigorous navigating would have been impossible for unconscious men."


Of course it would not be vigorous navigating if all of those turns had been programmed at the same time as the first turn and the FMS was just executing the plan.


MULTIZ321 said:


> Can someone who is a pilot or familiar with flying give an explanation  of "VAPMI Waypoint" and "Gival Waypoint".  How does the pilot know he/she is at these waypoints" ?  Is it an electronic monitor signal that appears on one of the airplane monitors?  How does an aircraft controller or a monitor know that these waypoints have been crossed?
> 
> Thanks for any elucidation on this.
> 
> Richard


Up in the commercial sky is a system of virtual roads.  The junctions in those virtual roads are the waypoints.  

So to fly from say Newark to Los Angeles a plane will not take off and point the nose directly at Los Angeles, it will have filed a flight plan that defines the virtual roads it intends to take waypoint by waypoint.  E.G. Newark> Pittsburg, PA> FortWayne, IN > Springfield, IL > Springfield, MI > Amarillo TX > oh you get the picture...  Of course this is not likely to be a straight line.

Waypoints have radio beacons at them and are defined by lat / long so now GPS can also be used to navigate via the waypoints virtually rather than navigating from beacon to beacon.

As the carrier / dispatcher / crew know the flight plan, this is uploaded into the flight management system and once out of the more congested airport airspace in good weather the plane is left to fly from waypoint to waypoint along the planned route.

If you want to deviate from that route (weather etc) you ask permission from the controller in that airspace to exit the corridor (virtual roadway) you are flying on.

A plane like a 777 will both be able to monitor the radio beacon and its gps location and have a check and balance that it has reached a waypoint and set move along the steps and fly to the next waypoint.

As an aside, this is an old fashioned (and clearly safe) way of avoiding mid air collisions).  The US is slowly working toward a system where you do literally point the nose of the plane in this example toward LAX and use GPS navigation and ACAS (Airborne Collision Avoidance System) to allow flights to take more efficient routes to their destinations.  This should save the airlines some gas money and move the day of peak oil and save us all some bum in seat time when it happens.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/briefing/
http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/

Note to add reading Camachinists point above.  Unlike the way you program your GPS with just the destination and the GPS works out a route, here you are telling the GPS the route and the GPS is helping you stick to that route and not decide to take the virtual equivilant of I78 instead of the I80 that you documented in your plan.


----------



## Phydeaux

camachinist said:


> Back on the search going on, I was thinking this search might be a perfect test for the new Orion UAS or similar long range UAS which can handle the long ferry time and still loiter for hours. Pretty impressive technology and it doesn't need crew rest like the P8 Poseidon currently sitting at Perth for rest and maintenance.



Let's not forget our friends underwater. We have submarines dispatched over the globe, 24/7/365 and their instruments are beyond most peoples comprehension. As in *PING*


----------



## easyrider

Retired Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney was on the news and he said that he thinks the airplane was taken to Pakistan because of information from the Langley Intelligence Group Network. McInerney is a highly decorated Air Force strategic commander, now retired.



> McInerney said there are at least three bases in Taliban-controlled areas of western Pakistan that could handle the jet.
> 
> His theory is consistent with reports that the last “ping” heard from the jet’s Rolls Royce engines was about seven hours after takeoff in Malaysia.
> 
> LIGNET, the Langley Intelligence Group Network, provides global intelligence and forecasting by former CIA officers and others.
> 
> The LIGNET report McInerney cited noted that the Malaysian government “reportedly is investigating the possibility that missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 avoided radar detection and landed in Pakistan near the Afghanistan border inside Taliban-controlled territory, according to the UK Independent.”
> 
> The Malaysian foreign minister told reporters that Malaysia asked several Asian countries for assistance in its investigation, including Pakistan.
> 
> “Pakistan dismissed the idea that a Boeing 777 could land undetected inside the country but promised to work with the Malaysian government in its search for the missing plane,” the report said.
> 
> A LIGNET analyst, however, “received information from a source at Boeing that the company believes the plane did land in Pakistan.”
> 
> Israel, consequently, is mobilizing air defenses and scrutinizing approaching civilian aircraft, according to the Times of Israel.
> 
> A Boeing 777, LIGNET noted, requires a 7,500-foot runway, which are available in Pakistan, “meaning Flight 370 could conceivably be hidden in a hangar inside the country.



Here is the interview.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...mcinerney-stand-controversial-pakistan-theory

Bill


----------



## MULTIZ321

camachinist said:


> In layperson's terms, the FMS and EFIS operate a lot like the little Garmin GPS you might have in your car, of course in a far more complex manner.
> 
> Just like you programming an 'address' into your Garmin and then the unit telling you to turn here, turn there, etc, etc, pilots (or the autopilot!) follow similar instructions which are provided to them by EFIS as they're flying along. Imagine when you're in a strange city and using your Garmin and following its instructions to the letter. Ever end up on a route that seems nonsensical when observed later on a map? If so, that mimics, to some degree, how it's possible to follow a similar route via waypoints. Here's a short description of what they are:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waypoint#In_aviation
> 
> Instead of '1st street and 12th avenue', it's 'xxx latitude and yyy longitude'.
> 
> Disclaimer: Not a pilot but fly a fair amount and have pilot friends.
> 
> 
> Back on the search going on, I was thinking this search might be a perfect test for the new Orion UAS or similar long range UAS which can handle the long ferry time and still loiter for hours. Pretty impressive technology and it doesn't need crew rest like the P8 Poseidon currently sitting at Perth for rest and maintenance.





Phydeaux said:


> Let's not forget our friends underwater. We have submarines dispatched over the globe, 24/7/365 and their instruments are beyond most peoples comprehension. As in *PING*





SMHarman said:


> Of course it would not be vigorous navigating if all of those turns had been programmed at the same time as the first turn and the FMS was just executing the plan.
> 
> Up in the commercial sky is a system of virtual roads.  The junctions in those virtual roads are the waypoints.
> 
> So to fly from say Newark to Los Angeles a plane will not take off and point the nose directly at Los Angeles, it will have filed a flight plan that defines the virtual roads it intends to take waypoint by waypoint.  E.G. Newark> Pittsburg, PA> FortWayne, IN > Springfield, IL > Springfield, MI > Amarillo TX > oh you get the picture...  Of course this is not likely to be a straight line.
> 
> Waypoints have radio beacons at them and are defined by lat / long so now GPS can also be used to navigate via the waypoints virtually rather than navigating from beacon to beacon.
> 
> As the carrier / dispatcher / crew know the flight plan, this is uploaded into the flight management system and once out of the more congested airport airspace in good weather the plane is left to fly from waypoint to waypoint along the planned route.
> 
> If you want to deviate from that route (weather etc) you ask permission from the controller in that airspace to exit the corridor (virtual roadway) you are flying on.
> 
> A plane like a 777 will both be able to monitor the radio beacon and its gps location and have a check and balance that it has reached a waypoint and set move along the steps and fly to the next waypoint.
> 
> As an aside, this is an old fashioned (and clearly safe) way of avoiding mid air collisions).  The US is slowly working toward a system where you do literally point the nose of the plane in this example toward LAX and use GPS navigation and ACAS (Airborne Collision Avoidance System) to allow flights to take more efficient routes to their destinations.  This should save the airlines some gas money and move the day of peak oil and save us all some bum in seat time when it happens.
> http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/briefing/
> http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/
> 
> Note to add reading Camachinists point above.  Unlike the way you program your GPS with just the destination and the GPS works out a route, here you are telling the GPS the route and the GPS is helping you stick to that route and not decide to take the virtual equivilant of I78 instead of the I80 that you documented in your plan.



Thanks Camachinist  & SH,

Great explanations!


Richard


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Let's not forget our friends underwater. We have submarines dispatched over the globe, 24/7/365 and their instruments are beyond most peoples comprehension. As in *PING*



That would require active sonar which would give away their position. They almost always use passive sonar and the active sonar is mainly used for rangefinding to target something.  Also, I'm not sure how effective active sonar would be at finding debris on the ocean floor.  If there is any debris still on top of the ocean bobbing around, there should be more effective ways then active sonar from a sub to locate it.


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> *That would require active sonar* which would give away their position. They almost always use passive sonar and the active sonar is mainly used for rangefinding to target something.  Also, I'm not sure how effective *active sonar would be at finding debris on the ocean floor.*  If there is any debris still on top of the ocean bobbing around, there should be more effective ways then active sonar from a sub to locate it.




Passive SONAR is what would be utilized to detect and triangulate the *PINGs *emitted from the black box.


----------



## ace2000

easyrider said:


> Retired Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney was on the news and he said that he thinks the airplane was taken to Pakistan because of information from the Langley Intelligence Group Network. McInerney is a highly decorated Air Force strategic commander, now retired.



Interesting, but I'm skeptical.  If those sites could handle that type of plane, then that would mean the Taliban in that area would already have their own planes, right?  And then why would they want a plane with over 200 passengers?  If it's a hostage situation, surely their demands would have been made known by now, right?


----------



## Phydeaux

Perhaps you missed this theory: http://marklberry.com/2014/03/16/high-alert-mh370-found/


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> Perhaps you missed this theory: http://marklberry.com/2014/03/16/high-alert-mh370-found/



I've seen it.  I'm just assuming that if the Taliban had an airstrip and hangar that could accommodate a 777, wouldn't that mean they already have their own large plane?  Definitely not a 777, but it seems that would have their own large plane already.  Sorry, not buying into either one of these theories.


----------



## pedro47

A plane can not be detective if it flies under a certain height and uses a stealth device.


----------



## Chrispee

Phydeaux said:


> Perhaps you missed this theory: http://marklberry.com/2014/03/16/high-alert-mh370-found/



In my opinion, his theory of what happened to the plane is entirely plausible, but his theory of the future plans for the plane is ridiculous.  When you put the two together it becomes a highly unlikely scenario.  At this point, an unidentified 777 nearing North American airspace would get shot down for sure.


----------



## MULTIZ321

'The Technology is Out There', but Satellites Don't Track Jets - By Jad Mouawad, Christopher Drew and Nicola Clark/ Technology/ The New York Times.com

"Airlines routinely use satellites to provide Wi-Fi for passengers. But for years they have failed to use a similar technology for a far more basic task: tracking planes and their black-box flight recorders..."


Richard


----------



## Phydeaux

MULTIZ321 said:


> 'The Technology is Out There', but Satellites Don't Track Jets - By Jad Mouawad, Christopher Drew and Nicola Clark/ Technology/ The New York Times.com
> 
> "Airlines routinely use satellites to provide Wi-Fi for passengers. But for years they have failed to use a similar technology for a far more basic task: tracking planes and their black-box flight recorders..."
> 
> 
> Richard




Interesting Richard. Do you have web links that take up the matter of terrain masking, passive SONAR, or likely remote airstrips within range of the flight? And what's your theory on the disappearance of this aircraft, and the souls aboard?


----------



## MULTIZ321

Phydeaux said:


> Interesting Richard. Do you have web links that take up the matter of terrain masking, passive SONAR, or likely remote airstrips within range of the flight? And what's your theory on the disappearance of this aircraft, and the souls aboard?



Hi Phydeaux,

Here are some links:

Missing Malaysia Plane Flew at 5,000 ft and Used 'Terrain Masking' to Avoid Radar Detection - By Dean Nelson, and Jonathan Pearlman, Kuala Lumpur/ World/ The Telegraph.co.uk

"For almost eight hours after plane was apparently hijacked it flew as low as 5,000ft to avoid commercial radars..."


Where Is That Plane?!?!?  - from BabyCenter Community

Scroll down and read the post by SaltedButter -  Haven't heard any other mention of the additional fuel.  But can't be discounted.

U.S.Spends $2.5M on Plane Search; May Give Sonar Gear to Malaysia - From Thompson/Reuters/Friday, March 21, 2014

...The U.S. Navy has a variety of active and passive sonar systems, some of which search the ocean for objects by emitting sound "pings" and monitoring the echoes that bounce back and others that listen for sound like an undersea microphone.

One system, called a "Towed Pinger Locator", is towed behind ships and is used to listen for downed Navy and commercial aircraft at depths of up to 20,000 feet (6000 meters), according to the U.S. Navy's website.

The U.S. military loaned this technology to France during its two-year effort to locate the black box from an Air France jetliner that crashed into the Atlantic Ocean in June 2009..."

Malaysia Airlines Fight 370: Runways in Range - from wnyc.org

Gan Airport (Maldives) is in that grouping.  Wonder if authorities seriously checked out the sighting of the low flying aircraft.  The military base at Diego Garcia is only about 580 miles from the Maldives - we certainly could quickly have some assets there to conduct a search.

And in the opposite direction, perhaps the latest Chinese satellite images will bear fruit.

Best regards,

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

A Routine Flight, Till Both Routine and Flight Vanish - by Philip P. Pan and Kirk Semple/ Asia Pacific/ Retracing a Lost Flight/ The New York Times.com

"The night sky was clear above the clouds, and the last glimmer of a setting half-moon had faded when Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, cruising at 35,000 feet over the Gulf of Thailand, approached the border between Malaysian and Vietnamese airspace on its usual route to Beijing. What happened next should have been routine for a twice-daily milk run between two of Asia’s most important cities. Air traffic controllers outside Kuala Lumpur usually hand the jet off to their counterparts in Ho Chi Minh City as the flight turns northeast toward the Chinese capital.

But in those early hours of March 8, pilots flying nearby heard an unusual crescendo of chatter on the radio frequencies used by radar control in Vietnam and Malaysia. Air traffic personnel in both countries were trying and failing to reach the plane.

“Any stations in contact with Malaysian 370, please relay.”

Vietnamese and Malaysian controllers asked one aircraft after another to radio the jet. Pilots listened as one plane after another tried and heard only static..."


Richard


----------



## Beefnot

So now we have learned that the manually preprogrammed flight change scenario was only a theory. There was no evidence that this ever occurred. Figured as much.


----------



## Passepartout

A bit more info that was on NBC today, Robert Hager, longtime aviation reporter came in with a cockpit data recorder, and showed the 'pinger'. It's a little cylinder thing, a couple inches in diameter and maybe 8" long. It will continue to emit pings for up to another month. But is only detectable for 6- to 10 miles in optimum conditions. In an area where the sea floor could be 3 miles deep, the 'listener' would need to be within as little as 3 miles horizontally from it. The more time that passes, the further any (as yet unfound) floating debris field drifts in this storm tossed sea, away from the main body of wreckage.

Since we barely know more than which ocean this plane went down in (and that is not entirely agreed on), trying to drag a listening device within a few miles of an unlocated wreck in the next month is pretty iffy.

Bottom line, flight MH 370 may never be located. A few floating bits of it may wash up on distant shores, but that's it. It will be difficult for family members of people lost on this flight will have difficulty getting any sort of closure- an especially difficult thing for people of Chinese and other Asian ancestry.


----------



## ace2000

IMO, I think it's very highly likely that they've got the plane now with the recent floating debris that they've spotted.  Hope so.


----------



## Passepartout

ace2000 said:


> IMO, I think it's very highly likely that they've got the plane now with the recent floating debris that they've spotted.  Hope so.



That would at the least give a starting point from which to really begin a search, but a floating debris field, after all this time in those turbulent seas could be hundreds of miles from the actual crash site.


----------



## Talent312

Just an aside on the time portal theory...
If they went into the past, it created a temporal anomaly of which our timeline is the result. OTOH, they may have gone into future. Either way, we may never know.


Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2


----------



## easyrider

The area they are looking in is full of garbage from all kinds of events. They will be looking for garbage in a vast ocean garbage patch.

Oddly, Israel has closed all of its embassies.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/850288.shtml#.Uy9HCqhdU4c

Since Israel is so small they don't have much time to deal with aircraft entering their airspace. Last time it happened in was in 1973 and the aircraft was shot down.

Bill


----------



## DeniseM

What does a missing plane have to do with a labor strike?


> Israeli embassies to close worldwide as *staff strike* hits foreign ministry


----------



## SMHarman

As this is about conspiracy. 
1) the authorities know where it is, it was landed safely at a remote airstrip 
2) The pax died when the air was shut down at 45,000 ft. 
3) the Indian Ocean search is theater to make the current keepers of the Plane think 1 has not happened. 
4) they are waiting to find the geniuses and King pin behind 1.  

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


----------



## Passepartout

DeniseM said:


> What does a missing plane have to do with a labor strike?



Might be a chemical imbalance. Something got past the tinfoil helmet.


----------



## Beefnot

I believe that shortly after the last communication, a severe mechanical event could have occurred that may have gone so far as to cripple flight instrumentation and the ability to communicate. In the dark of night, in the blind, with a malfunctioning plane. Do they continue on course or do they make a decision to immediately reverse course back toward land? They turn back, drop altitude in order to preserve fuel (and even to breathe if cabin depressurization was involved), in hopes that they will eventually be able to regain communication and control of the plane nearer to land. They cannot drop too low so as not to smack dead into a mountain, but low enough that when they have control and reorientation by the light of day,they will be able to rapidly descend and land safely. But ultimately that failed as they never fully regained control of the plane or orientation toward a safe landing strip.


----------



## Phydeaux

Beefnot said:


> I believe that shortly after the last communication, a severe mechanical event could have occurred that may have gone so far as to cripple flight instrumentation and the ability to communicate. In the dark of night, in the blind, with a malfunctioning plane. Do they continue on course or do they make a decision to immediately reverse course back toward land? They turn back, drop altitude in order to preserve fuel (and even to breathe if cabin depressurization was involved), in hopes that they will eventually be able to regain communication and control of the plane nearer to land. They cannot drop too low so as not to smack dead into a mountain, but low enough that when they have control and reorientation by the light of day,they will be able to rapidly descend and land safely. But ultimately that failed as they never fully regained control of the plane or orientation toward a safe landing strip.



If I'm not mistaken, even the experts have already concluded days ago there wasn't an aircraft emergency.


----------



## Ken555

Phydeaux said:


> If I'm not mistaken, even the experts have already concluded days ago there wasn't an aircraft emergency.




Ok, I admit I haven't read this entire thread. But, I did read the news earlier today that said the sequence of events has changed yet again. It appears that now there was no preplanned course correction in the navigation system on the plane, and that now the possibility of an aircraft emergency is greater than other theories. But, we still don't know much so anything is possible.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Beefnot

Phydeaux said:


> If I'm not mistaken, even the experts have already concluded days ago there wasn't an aircraft emergency.



And as Ken alludes to, the so-called "facts" and "conclusions" over the last two weeks apparently have changed.  No one knows anything, not even the experts, so I figure my theory is just as plausible as any of the experts at this point.


----------



## csxjohn

Beefnot said:


> And as Ken alludes to, the so-called "facts" and "conclusions" over the last two weeks apparently have changed.  No one knows anything, not even the experts, so I figure my theory is just as plausible as any of the experts at this point.



And for the same reason my time travel scenario is still in play.


----------



## easyrider

DeniseM said:


> What does a missing plane have to do with a labor strike?



Too me its odd that a country such as Israel, that depends on diplomacy for its existence, would allow all diplomatic work to be put on hold starting tomorrow. How does a rich and responsible nation act ? Not like this, imo.   

Israel has said that they feel the lost 777 is viable and could be used against them. Other intelligence gathering networks have suggested the same. I guess if some one does use the plane then at the very least every one would know whats up with the plane. 

Israel has also said they would take out Iran's nuclear facilities at some point and have promised to protect their country from outside threats such as Hezbollah bases in Syria.Without any help. In the last few weeks its been raining rockets in Israel. 

Bill


----------



## easyrider

Passepartout said:


> Might be a chemical imbalance. Something got past the tinfoil helmet.



ha ha Jim.... what a guy !!!

Bill


----------



## Tia

Something odd imo is going on with the lost plane, maybe the NSA was too busy watching the wrong stuff this time....:ignore:


----------



## Beefnot

Ok my wife says that dropping altitude burns more fuel than higher altitude.  So I need to tweak that part of my theory. They dropped altitude out of necessity.  Fuel preservation was not one of their concerns.


----------



## Beaglemom3




----------



## Ken555

Beefnot said:


> Ok my wife says that dropping altitude burns more fuel than higher altitude.  So I need to tweak that part of my theory. They dropped altitude out of necessity.  Fuel preservation was not one of their concerns.




From what I've read, one of the reasons to get to a lower altitude is in the event of loss of pressurization, and is a safety action. I'm sure the pilots who are on tug can speak to this issue. Sorry if this has been covered already in the last few hundred posts...


Sent from my iPad


----------



## Ken555

And another Malaysia plane just experienced an emergency. Hmm.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## davidvel

MULTIZ321 said:


> But in those early hours of March 8, pilots flying nearby heard an unusual crescendo of chatter on the radio frequencies used by radar control in Vietnam and Malaysia. Air traffic personnel in both countries were trying and failing to reach the plane.
> 
> “Any stations in contact with Malaysian 370, please relay.”
> 
> Vietnamese and Malaysian controllers asked one aircraft after another to radio the jet. Pilots listened as one plane after another tried and heard only static..."


Strange, when no one could connect with the plane, no military aircraft went out to find it? No one cared?


----------



## Beefnot

Ken555 said:


> From what I've read, one of the reasons to get to a lower altitude is in the event of loss of pressurization, and is a safety action. I'm sure the pilots who are on tug can speak to this issue. Sorry if this has been covered already in the last few hundred posts...



Yes, I just needed to edit out the altitude piece of it.



Beefnot said:


> I believe that shortly after the last communication, a severe mechanical event could have occurred that may have gone so far as to cripple flight instrumentation and the ability to communicate. In the dark of night, in the blind, with a malfunctioning plane. Do they continue on course or do they make a decision to immediately reverse course back toward land? They turn back, drop altitude in order to preserve fuel (and even to breathe if cabin depressurization was involved), in hopes that they will eventually be able to regain communication and control of the plane nearer to land. They cannot drop too low so as not to smack dead into a mountain, but low enough that when they have control and reorientation by the light of day,they will be able to rapidly descend and land safely. But ultimately that failed as they never fully regained control of the plane or orientation toward a safe landing strip.


----------



## SMHarman

Beefnot said:


> Yes, I just needed to edit out the altitude piece of it.



But it would drop to 8k feet, not 20. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

davidvel said:


> Strange, when no one could connect with the plane, no military aircraft went out to find it? No one cared?



That is probably a key reason why it took a week before Malaysia and Siam confirmed they had actually tracked the plane on primary radar.  By making that acknowledgement, each countries' defense forces was admitting that an unidentified plane had intruded into its air space without provoking a response.  Very embarrassing, and in both cases the military only reluctantly made that admission.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

ace2000 said:


> I've seen it.  I'm just assuming that if the Taliban had an airstrip and hangar that could accommodate a 777, wouldn't that mean they already have their own large plane?  Definitely not a 777, but it seems that would have their own large plane already.  Sorry, not buying into either one of these theories.



Yep.

Hangars that are big enough to handle a 777 aren't routinely constructed at airports.  You only build a hangar that size because you expect to be regularly conducting service and repair on planes that size.  

If you are going to assume the plane is housed in hangar somewhere, the search becomes very easy, because now there are only a handful of locations where the plane can be.  And because of the military significance of that information, it's likely that those have all been cleared.  

I'm pretty confident that if the Taliban, for example, controlled in airfield in Pakistan or Afghanistan that could house a 777, that location would be under pretty heavy monitoring by US forces in the area.  Suppose someone were able to land a 777 undetected in a Taliban or al Qaeda controlled airport, under the noses of the US military where we are actively engaged in hostile actions.  If that were true, I submit we would then have far more serious security questions to deal with than the dangers associated with al Qaeda having a 777 in their possession halfway across the globe.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Beefnot said:


> I believe that shortly after the last communication, a severe mechanical event could have occurred that may have gone so far as to cripple flight instrumentation and the ability to communicate. In the dark of night, in the blind, with a malfunctioning plane. Do they continue on course or do they make a decision to immediately reverse course back toward land? They turn back, drop altitude in order to preserve fuel (and even to breathe if cabin depressurization was involved), in hopes that they will eventually be able to regain communication and control of the plane nearer to land. They cannot drop too low so as not to smack dead into a mountain, but low enough that when they have control and reorientation by the light of day,they will be able to rapidly descend and land safely. But ultimately that failed as they never fully regained control of the plane or orientation toward a safe landing strip.



Is your last name Goodfellow?  That sounds fairly close to the original Goodfellow theory that began this whole thread.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> If I'm not mistaken, even the experts have already concluded days ago there wasn't an aircraft emergency.



Hmm, a lot of those same "experts" are now returning back to an air emergency hypothesis as being the most likely explanation.


----------



## Beefnot

Clemson Fan said:


> Is your last name Goodfellow? That sounds fairly close to the original Goodfellow theory that began this whole thread.



 Well I'll be. I suppose great minds think alike.


----------



## Clemson Fan

easyrider said:


> Israel has said that they feel the lost 777 is viable and could be used against them.



You keep making the mistake of confusing what one private Israeli citizen, Isaac Yeffet, says as being what the nation of Isreal says!  Let's be truthful, the state of Israel has said no such thing!

I do suppose, though, you could get a reporting job at any of the major news outlets because they've all seemed to have gone to the same school of journalism as you have.


----------



## CarolF

Beaglemom3 said:


>



:hysterical:


----------



## Tia

TODAY SHOW is now saying they now believe the airliner went down 460 miles off of the Australian coast in the Indian ocean


----------



## easyrider

Clemson Fan said:


> You keep making the mistake of confusing what one private Israeli citizen, Isaac Yeffet, says as being what the nation of Isreal says!  Let's be truthful, the state of Israel has said no such thing!
> 
> I do suppose, though, you could get a reporting job at any of the major news outlets because they've all seemed to have gone to the same school of journalism as you have.



Thank You Clem... Your very kind to say so. 

I started with an interview with Retired General McInerney who said he felt flight 370 landed in Pakistan. After 10 days of not finding 370 this is as good an explanation as any. This was an interview with Sean Hannity. 

You do realize that Issaac Yeffet is a retired Israeli agent and a former head of security for Israeli Airlines ? Currently he is working as an airline security consultant in the USA. So yes, I would entertain what this guy thinks could have happened as true before what the country of Malaysia thinks.

The head of the pilots ass. in Israel feels 370 will be found at the bottom of the ocean.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.581376

Bill


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia: Missing Flight Crashed in Indian Ocean - from Associated Press/ Yahoo!News.com

"KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak says a new analysis of satellite data indicates the missing Malaysia Airlines plane plunged into a remote corner of the Indian Ocean..."


Richard


----------



## ace2000

Tia said:


> TODAY SHOW is now saying they now believe the airliner went down 460 miles off of the Australian coast in the Indian ocean



At this point, anyone would be crazy not to believe it's in the Indian ocean.  That's where they are seeing the floating debris and that's where they are frantically searching.  

If anyone believes otherwise at this point, please step forward.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Says Missing Plane Crashed in Indian Ocean - by Stuart Grudgings/ Reuters.com

"(Reuters) - The Malaysia Airlines plane that disappeared over two weeks ago crashed in the southern Indian Ocean, Prime Minister Najib Razak said on Monday.

New satellite analysis from Britain had shown that Flight MH370, with 239 people on board, was last seen in the middle of the Indian Ocean west of Perth, Australia, he said in a statement.

"This is a remote location, far from any possible landing sites," Najib said.

"It is therefore with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that, according to this new data, Flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean."

Najib added that the families of those on board had been informed of the developments.

His comments came as an Australian navy ship was close to finding possible debris from the jetliner after a mounting number of sightings of floating objects that are believed to parts of the plane.

The objects, described as a "grey or green circular object" and an "orange rectangular object", were spotted on Monday afternoon, said Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, adding that three planes were also en route to the area..."



Richard


----------



## Clemson Fan

easyrider said:


> You do realize that Issaac Yeffet is a retired Israeli agent and a former head of security for Israeli Airlines ? Currently he is working as an airline security consultant in the USA. So yes, I would entertain what this guy thinks could have happened as true before what the country of Malaysia thinks.



Do you realize that he is a private Isreali citizen and does not speak for the State of Isreal?

Again, saying "Isreal" states this based on this one private citizens opinion is like saying the United States of America says TWA 800 was shot down by a wayward Navy missle because that's what Pierre Salinger stated and believed.


----------



## Clemson Fan

ace2000 said:


> At this point, anyone would be crazy not to believe it's in the Indian ocean.  That's where they are seeing the floating debris and that's where they are frantically searching.
> 
> If anyone believes otherwise at this point, please step forward.



Nope.  They're hiding it in that same sound stage where they produced the faked moon landings!  That's pretty obvious!


----------



## ace2000

And now we have this...  what took so long to make this statement?  

*'ALL LIVES ARE LOST'*



> Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 went down over the southern Indian Ocean, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said Monday, citing a new analysis of satellite data by a British satellite company and accident investigators, and apparently ending hopes that anyone survived.



http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


----------



## ace2000

I'll go ahead and provide a little more from the source article above.  



> Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 went down over the southern Indian Ocean, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said Monday, citing a new analysis of satellite data by a British satellite company and accident investigators, and apparently ending hopes that anyone survived.
> 
> A relative of a missing passenger briefed by the airline in Beijing said, "They have told us all lives are lost."
> 
> The Prime Minister based his announcement on what he described as unprecedented analysis of satellite data sent by the plane by British satellite provider Inmarsat and the British Air Accidents Investigation Branch. He didn't describe the nature of the analysis.
> 
> But he said it made it clear that the plane's last position was in the middle of the remote southern Indian Ocean, "far from any possible landing sites."


----------



## Passepartout

So much for my theory of it smashing into a mountain en-route to Central Asia. Now to find it. No small feat. Like a very small needle in almost countless haystacks.

Even if they DO find the wreckage, AND retrieve either or both recorders, due to the amount of time the plane flew on, there could well be no anomalies on the recordings. This may live on as one of the world's great mysteries. What happened aboard MH 370? 

Jim


----------



## easyrider

Clemson Fan said:


> Do you realize that he is a private Isreali citizen and does not speak for the State of Isreal?
> 
> Again, saying "Isreal" states this based on this one private citizens opinion is like saying the United States of America says TWA 800 was shot down by a wayward Navy missle because that's what Pierre Salinger stated and believed.



Ok, I get your point. 

Even though Yeffet is a private Israeli citizen his opinion is regarded highly among airline security officials worldwide, including Israel. 

Not really confirmed as flight 370 yet a wreck has been found.
http://breakingthenews.weebly.com/1...-in-the-southern-indian-ocean-yahoo-news.html

Bill


----------



## csxjohn

easyrider said:


> ...Not really confirmed as flight 370 yet a wreck has been found.
> http://breakingthenews.weebly.com/1...-in-the-southern-indian-ocean-yahoo-news.html
> 
> Bill



Where in that story does it say a wreck has been found?


----------



## MULTIZ321

MULTIZ321 said:


> Hi Phydeaux,
> 
> ...
> 
> Malaysia Airlines Fight 370: Runways in Range - from wnyc.org
> 
> Gan Airport (Maldives) is in that grouping.  Wonder if authorities seriously checked out the sighting of the low flying aircraft.  The military base at Diego Garcia is only about 580 miles from the Maldives - we certainly could quickly have some assets there to conduct a search.
> 
> 
> 
> Richard



Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane: Maldives Discounted  As Possible Location for MH370 - by Jason Koutsoukis/ World/ The Sydney Morning Herald/ smh.com.au

"Eyewitness reports of a possible sighting of missing Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 flying near the Maldives have been officially discounted in a statement issued by the Maldives National Defence Force.

These reports were also confirmed by Malaysia's Transport Minister, Hishamuddin Hussein..."





Viewing gallery in Kuala Lumpur: An artwork conveying well-wishes for the passengers and crew of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.

Richard


----------



## DeniseM

csxjohn said:


> Where in that story does it say a wreck has been found?



It doesn't:



> *No wreckage* has yet to be recovered.


----------



## ricoba

So, if the report this morning is accurate about the jet crashing in the Indian Ocean, I guess the only question is why it was over the Indian Ocean instead of heading to China? 

How long do you think before they find any debris or any answers to this mystery?


----------



## csxjohn

DeniseM said:


> It doesn't:



I was addressing Bills post where the stated 



> Not really confirmed as flight 370 yet a wreck has been found.




A wreck being found and wreckage not being recoverd is not contritictory. 

You can find something without being able to recover any of it.

I thought maybe I missed something on that page that said a wreck was found.

I can't click on all the links and arrows and stuff, my computer is very old and slow so I miss a lot.


----------



## DeniseM

csxjohn said:


> I was addressing Bills post where the stated:  Not really confirmed as flight 370 yet a wreck has been found.



I was addressing the same post - a wreck has *not* been found.  More "suspicious objects," were found, but nothing confirmed.  However, the article he referenced did have a (phony) picture of a plane underwater, so maybe he just read the picture.



> Earlier today, an Australian plane spotted two objects described as gray or green and "circular" as well as orange and "rectangular" in the search area off Australia's coast.
> 
> Other search crews had spotted "suspicious objects" in the Indian Ocean over the weekend -- including items believed to be wooden pallets. The Malaysian government said that the missing Boeing 777-200 had been carrying wooden pallets, were not yet sure whether the pallets matched.
> 
> No wreckage has yet to be recovered.


----------



## ace2000

ricoba said:


> How long do you think before they find any debris or any answers to this mystery?



24 hours.  Why?  Because I haven't been wrong yet!


----------



## Beefnot

ricoba said:


> So, if the report this morning is accurate about the jet crashing in the Indian Ocean, I guess the only question is why it was over the Indian Ocean instead of heading to China?
> 
> How long do you think before they find any debris or any answers to this mystery?


 

That is not a question.  My theory (and maybe Goodfellow's theory to supposedly) account for this.

Regarding wreckage, as we have learned, virtually all of the facts have changed over the last two weeks, so the only incontrovertable fact right now is that the plane is missing.


----------



## ace2000

ricoba said:


> So, if the report this morning is accurate about the jet crashing in the Indian Ocean, I guess the only question is why it was over the Indian Ocean instead of heading to China?



It's all about the "left turn" the aircraft made.  It appears that the satellites have backed it up.


----------



## easyrider

DeniseM said:


> I was addressing the same post - a wreck has *not* been found.  More "suspicious objects," were found, but nothing confirmed.  However, the article he referenced did have a (phony) picture of a plane underwater, so maybe he just read the picture.




I meant a possible wreck has been found. Is that better Denise ? I can't believe the way you post sometimes.  

Engineers say they have it figured out somewhat.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...arrowed-satellite-analysts-work-expert-n60666

Bill


----------



## DeniseM

Bill:  They have been finding "possible wreckage" for two weeks - that is a FAR cry from posting, "yet a wreck *has been found*," and then posting an article with a phony picture of a plane underwater.  You hurt your own credibility with the type of stuff you post - repeatedly!


----------



## Clemson Fan

It appears like we're finally completing our big huge circle on this story.  Now back to Mr. Goodfellow's theory which I still believe gives the most plausible explanation to what probably happened.

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04

Is it 100% accurate?  Of course not!  However, it's probably closer to the truth then any other theory out there.  What I do think it gets absolutely right is that the plane flew for 7 hours with everybody dead on board until it ran out of fuel and then dropped into the Southern Indian Ocean.  How we got to everybody being dead on board I don't think we'll ever know.

What this story has shown is how just atrociously bad journalism has become!  From CNN to the NY Times and other "respected" media outlets with their respected "experts", they've constantly reported speculation as "facts"!  It looks like they all went to easyriders school of journalism.


----------



## easyrider

DeniseM said:


> Bill:  They have been finding "possible wreckage" for two weeks - that is a FAR cry from posting, "yet a wreck *has been found*," and then posting an article with a phony picture of a plane underwater.  You hurt your own credibility with the type of stuff you post - repeatedly!



The entire sentence I posted was "Not really confirmed as flight 370 yet a wreck has been found." 

Wouldn't the first half of this sentence, " Not confirmed as flight 370" mean that the second half may or may not be parts of 370 ? 

If not, thank you for the correction, but imo, it wasn't really worth bringing up in a disparaging manner. 

Bill


----------



## DeniseM

I didn't bring it up - csxjohn asked if "a wreck had been found," and I answered him.  

No, *"a wreck,"* has not been found - some *floating debris* have been found.  No one even knows if they are part of an airplane, because the ocean is full of floating garbage!

If you are going to post stuff like this as if it's a fact, you should expect to get some "feedback."


----------



## "Roger"

Here is what I take to be the most plausible explanation that I have heard ...

An alien transported himself (herself?) into the brain of the copilot and set off a death ray killing all aboard except for the copilot who had been given a toxin which shielded him from the death ray.  Fortunately for us, the NSA had been monitoring the computers of the alien's death star and knew of the plot.  An Air Force jet was sent to destroy the plane and a high speed chase ensued across the Malay peninsula.  The Malaysian military had been given a heads up so did not immediately report the planes crossing their air space.  The 777 was successfully shot down over the Indian Ocean, the parts collected, and sent to Roswell, NM to be reconstructed with the copilot (with alien aboard) being held in captivity.  Meanwhile, the CIA has contracted with the same firm that built the mock up of the never-did-happen lunar landing to build a fictional devastated 777 to drop further away in the Indian Ocean to be spotted by Chinese satellites and recovered for public consumption.  The reason it has taken so long to carry out this last part of the plan is that the reconstruction has been beleaguered by cost overruns and Congressional budget cuts.

Do you want to hear my theory about Amelia Earhart?


----------



## MULTIZ321

"Roger" said:


> Here is what I take to be the most plausible explanation that I have heard ...
> 
> An alien transported himself (herself?) into the brain of the copilot and set off a death ray killing all aboard except for the copilot who had been given a toxin which shielded him from the death ray.  Fortunately for us, the NSA had been monitoring the computers of the alien's death star and knew of the plot.  An Air Force jet was sent to destroy the plane and a high speed chase ensued across the Malay peninsula.  The Malaysian military had been given a heads up so did not immediately report the planes crossing their air space.  The 777 was successfully shot down over the Indian Ocean, the parts collected, and sent to Roswell, NM to be reconstructed with the copilot (with alien aboard) being held in captivity.  Meanwhile, the CIA has contracted with the same firm that built the mock up of the never-did-happen lunar landing to build a fictional devastated 777 to drop further away in the Indian Ocean to be spotted by Chinese satellites and recovered for public consumption.  The reason it has taken so long to carry out this last part of the plan is that the reconstruction has been beleaguered by cost overruns and Congressional budget cuts.
> 
> Do you want to hear my theory about Amelia Earhart?



Hi Roger,

While you're on a roll, keep going...


Richard


----------



## Beefnot

Clemson Fan said:


> It appears like we're finally completing our big huge circle on this story. Now back to Mr. Goodfellow's theory which I still believe gives the most plausible explanation to what probably happened.
> 
> https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13cv1gohsmbv5jmy221vrfyiz3vdhbop04
> 
> Is it 100% accurate? Of course not! However, it's probably closer to the truth then any other theory out there. What I do think it gets absolutely right is that the plane flew for 7 hours with everybody dead on board until it ran out of fuel and then dropped into the Southern Indian Ocean. How we got to everybody being dead on board I don't think we'll ever know.
> 
> What this story has shown is how just atrociously bad journalism has become! From CNN to the NY Times and other "respected" media outlets with their respected "experts", they've constantly reported speculation as "facts"! It looks like they all went to easyriders school of journalism.


 
I still like my theory the best.  But agree on the bad journalism.  Gave rise to these kooky conspiracy theories.

An aside: One of the most horrific air emergencies I have ever heard of was this one episode of "Air Emergency" where a volcanic eruption on some island in the South Pacific (I think) had spewn ash up into the atmosphere that choked oxygen to the engines and they went out.  The plane was gliding in the darkness, with some weird flashes of light from the volcanic ash or something like that, until the plane went into a straight nosedive hurtling toward the ocean.  Everyone on board was screaming to their certain oceanic death until the pilots managed to restart the engines and lift the plane at the nick of time avoiding impact.  They also interviewed passengers who were on that flight.  Man that was a crazy suspenseful episode.  

Ok now I don't want to fly over the South Pacific.  I've just removed 1/4 of the world from my future vacation plans. I realize this is completely irrational.  And I'm comfortable with that.


----------



## csxjohn

Beefnot said:


> I still like my theory the best.  But agree on the bad journalism.  Gave rise to these kooky conspiracy theories.
> 
> An aside: One of the most horrific air emergencies I have ever heard of was this one episode of "Air Emergency" where a volcanic eruption on some island in the South Pacific (I think) had spewn ash up into the atmosphere that choked oxygen to the engines and they went out.  The plane was gliding in the darkness, with some weird flashes of light from the volcanic ash or something like that, until the plane went into a straight nosedive hurtling toward the ocean.  Everyone on board was screaming to their certain oceanic death until the pilots managed to restart the engines and lift the plane at the nick of time avoiding impact.  They also interviewed passengers who were on that flight.  Man that was a crazy suspenseful episode.
> 
> Ok now I don't want to fly over the South Pacific.  I've just removed 1/4 of the world from my future vacation plans. I realize this is completely irrational.  And I'm comfortable with that.



Then you probably don't want to fly anywhere near large bodies of water or large shopping centers where large flocks of seagulls or other birds congregate.

I can't find a good story about it but the day after the air show in Cleveland in 1981, the Air Force Thunder Birds were taking off to leave and the lead plane ingested enough seagulls to kill the jet engines.  Both crew members ejected but the pilot's chute on the ejector seat did not deploy and he crashed against the rocks and rolled into the lake.  They said he died instantly.  He was the leader of the Thunder Birds at that time.


----------



## SMHarman

Beefnot said:


> I still like my theory the best.  But agree on the bad journalism.  Gave rise to these kooky conspiracy theories.
> 
> An aside: One of the most horrific air emergencies I have ever heard of was this one episode of "Air Emergency" where a volcanic eruption on some island in the South Pacific (I think) had spewn ash up into the atmosphere that choked oxygen to the engines and they went out.  The plane was gliding in the darkness, with some weird flashes of light from the volcanic ash or something like that, until the plane went into a straight nosedive hurtling toward the ocean.  Everyone on board was screaming to their certain oceanic death until the pilots managed to restart the engines and lift the plane at the nick of time avoiding impact.  They also interviewed passengers who were on that flight.  Man that was a crazy suspenseful episode.
> 
> Ok now I don't want to fly over the South Pacific.  I've just removed 1/4 of the world from my future vacation plans. I realize this is completely irrational.  And I'm comfortable with that.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9

Remember TATL Air Traffic became a mess (as did Europe) when Iceland exploded a few years back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_travel_disruption_after_the_2010_Eyjafjallajökull_eruption


----------



## csxjohn

Clemson Fan said:


> ..What this story has shown is how just atrociously bad journalism has become!  From CNN to the NY Times and other "respected" media outlets with their respected "experts", they've constantly reported speculation as "facts"!  It looks like they all went to easyriders school of journalism.



What I find  just as bad is the public taking everything they read and hear in the news outlets as fact and repeating it as  fact.

When I was very young I witnessed an event that was reported on extensively in the papers and on TV.

I was there and didn't recognize most of what was being said and written.

From that day on I realized that you cannot believe the news, they talk to hear themselves and see themselves.

What's funny is, I don't remember the incident today but I do remember very well the lessons learned about news reporting.  If I think on it a while I may remember what it was but it's really not important.


----------



## MULTIZ321

csxjohn said:


> What I find  just as bad is the public taking everything they read and hear in the news outlets as fact and repeating it as  fact.
> 
> When I was very young I witnessed an event that was reported on extensively in the papers and on TV.
> 
> I was there and didn't recognize most of what was being said and written.
> 
> From that day on I realized that you cannot believe the news, they talk to hear themselves and see themselves.
> 
> What's funny is, I don't remember the incident today but I do remember very well the lessons learned about news reporting.  If I think on it a while I may remember what it was but it's really not important.



John,

Any chance it was the original Sam Sheppard Murder Trial and how he was vilified by 'The Cleveland Press' and 'The Cleveland Plain Dealer'?


Richard


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

csxjohn said:


> What I find  just as bad is the public taking everything they read and hear in the news outlets as fact and repeating it as  fact.
> 
> When I was very young I witnessed an event that was reported on extensively in the papers and on TV.
> 
> I was there and didn't recognize most of what was being said and written.
> 
> From that day on I realized that you cannot believe the news, they talk to hear themselves and see themselves.
> 
> What's funny is, I don't remember the incident today but I do remember very well the lessons learned about news reporting.  If I think on it a while I may remember what it was but it's really not important.


In an earlier life I was a person designated by my employer (a government agency) to provide information to the news media on various.  There was a significant story one time for which the Sacramento bureau of one of the major San Francisco area television stations was preparing an investigative piece. I spent time over three or four days responding to questions and providing them information to be sure they had all of the background and context.  

When they ran the story there were several very significant parts of the story that were simply false, and that they had to have known were false because they were flatly contradicted by written information and documentation I had provided to them.  

I happened to be in Sacramento a couple of days later, and I called on my contact (who was the an Assistant News Director for the station and the manager of the Sacramento Bureau) about the errors. He told me that he knew full well that the story wasn't accurate, "But", he said, "it was a better story the way we presented it".


----------



## Phydeaux

Am I the only person here that finds it just a bit odd that all media outlets have now determined that the aircraft has crashed into the ocean, and all aboard are dead? Yet, no one has pulled a single piece of aircraft out of the water. Are ships even at the site of the "debris", yet?


----------



## csxjohn

MULTIZ321 said:


> John,
> 
> Any chance it was the original Sam Sheppard Murder Trial and how he was vilified by 'The Cleveland Press' and 'The Cleveland Plain Dealer'?
> 
> 
> Richard



No, my family and I were in Bay Village sometime on July 5th, 1954 for a parade or something and an unusual number of police cars and ambulances went roaring by.  I remember my dad commenting "someone must have been murdered."

The investigation and reporting shows how when someone gets something in their mind they let it keep them from being objective.  This supreme court decision came out of the case.

"Since the state trial judge did not fulfill his duty to protect Sheppard from the inherently prejudicial publicity which saturated the community and to control disruptive influences in the courtroom, we must reverse the denial of the habeas petition. The case is remanded to the District Court with instructions to issue the writ and order that Sheppard be released from custody unless the State puts him to its charges again within a reasonable time."

Here are excerpts from some news stories, it was crazy.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/sheppard/sheppardnewspaper.html

This case made F. Lee Bailey famous.


I think the post by T_R_Oglodyte shows that news people are not going to let the truth get in the way of a good story.


----------



## "Roger"

Phydeaux said:


> Am I the only person here that finds it just a bit odd that all media outlets have now determined that the aircraft has crashed into the ocean, and all aboard are dead? Yet, no one has pulled a single piece of aircraft out of the water. Are ships even at the site of the "debris", yet?


Option #1:  See post 262.

Option #2:  Remember that the Malaysian authorities have been vehemently criticized by relatives of the plane's passengers for not being forthcoming about what they know.  (They have also been criticized for not seeking outside help fast enough, but that is a different issue.)  The British analysis tell them that they are certain that the satellite pings show that the plane headed down the southern route, that the pings stopped after the plane would have run out of fuel, and there are no landing possibilities anywhere in the vicinity.  Now what?  Withhold what you know?  Call the relatives in, tell them privately that there is no hope, and offer to fly them to Australia?  (How long would that remain private?)  Or, do what they did?

I suspect (speculation) that they have also been told that fine tuned analysis of the debris photo makes it "likely" that at least some of it is from the plane.  They do not include this in their statement because they will be asked exactly which photos and if those turn out to be something else, they end up looking bad again.


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> Am I the only person here that finds it just a bit odd that all media outlets have now determined that the aircraft has crashed into the ocean, and all aboard are dead? Yet, no one has pulled a single piece of aircraft out of the water. Are ships even at the site of the "debris", yet?



They're saying they now have satellite evidence that the plane went down in the Indian ocean.  I have no idea why it took 2 weeks for them before they realized they had that evidence.

The ships are at the site but bad weather has delayed the search for another day.  So far, it has only been visual sightings of the debris from airplanes.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Australia Temporarily Suspends Search As Airline Echoes Belief That MH370 Crashed - by Brian Feldman/ Malaysian Airflight 370 Crash/ The Wire.com

"Horrendous weather conditions in the Indian Ocean forced Australia to delay its search mission for flight MH370 for another 24 hours on Tuesday morning. As the vie chief of the Australian Defence Force phrased it to reporters, “We’re not searching for a needle in a haystack. We’re still trying to define where the haystack is.” ..."

Weather Stops Plane Hunt As China Demands Data - by Scott McDonald and Eileen Ng/ The Big Story/ Associated Press/ bigstory.ap.org

"KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Bad weather suspended the search Tuesday for any remains of a Malaysian jetliner as China demanded information a day after Malaysia's leader said the heartbreaking conclusion was that Flight 370 had crashed in the southern Indian Ocean with no survivors.

Planes and ships have been crisscrossing a remote area of ocean 2,500 kilometers (1,550 miles) southwest of Australia, but the search was called off because of waves up to 4 meters (12 feet), high winds and heavy rain.

The suspension comes after a somber announcement late Monday by Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak saying the plane had crashed in the sea, but which also left unanswered many troubling questions about why the Boeing 777, which was en route to Beijing on March 8 when it disappeared, was so far off-course..."

Richard


----------



## ace2000

Here's a good source on how it was solved.


HOW INMARSAT USED THE DOPPLER EFFECT TO TRACK DOWN MH370'S LAST KNOWN POSITION



> British satellite firm Inmarsat discovered on March 9 that MH370 had continued flying for at least another six hours after its last voice transmission from the cockpit at 1.19am on Saturday March 8.
> 
> It knew this from an electronic 'handshake' that the plane gave to one of its satellites. This placed it in one of two corridors, running north to kazakhstan, or south to the Indian Ocean.
> 
> The satellite received several more pings from the aircraft, but Inmarsat weren't immediately able to work out its trajectory because the satellite isn't GPS enabled.
> However, the pings contained hidden clues in their wave frequencies. Inmarsat, using some very clever mathematical modelling, deduced that the frequency of the waves were changing in a way that gave away the plane's locations.
> 
> It's called the Doppler effect, named after the Austrian physicist Christian Doppler, who proposed it in 1842.
> 
> He noticed how wave frequencies changed as an observer moved around the source. In modern life we experience it frequently as the sounds of sirens from emergency service vehicles change as they move away from us.
> 
> A similar effect was occurring with MH370 that enabled Inmarsat to rule out a northerly trajectory. The frequencies of the pings it was returning meant it was travelling south.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-families-passengers-crew.html#ixzz2wynaqwLR


----------



## MULTIZ321

China Releases Photo of 'Suspicious Objects' Spotted in Sea - from NBCNews.com

China's state news agency has released a photo showing "suspicious objects" spotted on Monday in the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane.

The objects were seen from a Chinese Air Force Ilyushin Il-76 aircraft during its search of the southern Indian Ocean, the Xinhua news agency reported.

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Why the Search for Flight 370 Was So Difficult - Infographic/ from The Globe and Mail.com

I viewed this on my tablet and was able to 'pinch and zoom'.  If you're viewing this on your PC and are having trouble reading the text - try 'Ctrl +' to enlarge the font size (i.e., depress both the Ctrl key and the + key simultaneously).


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Revealed: The Final 54 Minutes of Communication from MH370 - from The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"EXCLUSIVE: The cockpit communication aboard the missing Malaysia Airlines flight can be revealed, from its taxi on the runway to its final message at 1.19am of 'all right, good night'. The transcript starts at 00.25 with general instructions from the control tower to the pilots. The detailed conversation begins at 00.36. ...

...Analysts said the sequence of messages appeared “perfectly routine”. However two features, they said, stood out as potentially odd.  The first was a message from the cockpit at 1.07am, saying the plane was flying at 35,000ft. This was unnecessary as it repeated a message delivered six minutes earlier.

But it occurred at a crucial moment: it was at 1.07am that the plane’s Acars signalling device sent its last message before being disabled some time in the next 30 minutes, apparently deliberately. A separate transponder was disabled at 1.21am but investigators believe the Acars was shut down before Hamid’s final, 1.19am farewell.

The other odd feature, one reason for suspicions that the plane’s disappearance was no accident, was that its loss of communication and subsequent sharp turn west occurred at the handover from air traffic controllers in Kuala Lumpur to those in Ho Chi Minh City.

“If I was going to steal the aeroplane, that would be the point I would do it,” said Stephen Buzdygan, a former British Airways pilot who flew 777s..."



Richard


----------



## Patri

A local radio talk show host this morning brought up the flight. I'm thinking, what can she add to the mystery? She mentioned that early on, information was out that 2 U.S. retired Navy Seals were present when military cargo was put on the plane, then they left. Later that day there were found dead.
Her guest asked the source for her info (good for him!). She couldn't specifically name it, but said Europe covered it some, but not the U.S. She wondered if there was a connection to the disappearance. For a news media person, I thought she was very unprofessional. Ready to speculate, but she could easily have researched this in advance of her show and present credible material.


----------



## Smokatoke

The science behind this was pretty interesting on how they tracked the hypothetical path of the airplane. I am very intrigued though how they announced all 'lives are lost' based this data because its a very black and white statement, everyone is dead. But how do they know no one survived impact and was in a raft at one point? I can see how they assume the plane crashed into the ocean based on the data from satellites even without wreckage and their being nothing out there at all to land on, but to blatantly say everyone died without a shred of evidence is ridiculous.

Also the battery theory is such BS. The plane banked/turned hard, dropped in elevation turned back toward Malaysia and then FLEW 4-6 MORE HOURS TOWARD AUSTRALIA. If a major fire happens, you dont fly for 6 more hours in a completely different direction to the middle of no where. Experienced pilots can find land without all the fancy equipment, so to say they were blindly flying because the fire killed electronics is ridiculous. Now a fire knocking out all crew and passengers? Well a fire that bad with unstable batteries would have likely ignited ALL the batteries and cause an explosion, and THE PLANE WOULD NOT HAVE LASTED 6 MORE HOURS. Everyone wants to talk about the deadly batteries, and how large of a quantity they were, and how explosive they are, yet apparently they are so deadly they just start small fires that can go for 6 hours without downing a plane, and can selectively take out all systems aboard while still allowing the plane to fly... Comon people think this stuff out.

I will say we likely will never know the truth. I dont recall the flight off hand, the one that left NYC I believe and the official cause was the fuel tank exploded. For the first several weeks NY Times had reported fuel tank was ruled out and it was narrowed down to a bomb or missile, then shortly thereafter it was changed back to a fuel tank issue. Flash forward to more recent discussions with John Kerry and the former head of the NTSB about air disasters, and both in separate interviews said that NYC plane was downed by a bomb when listing off various recent air disasters, NEVER CORRECTING THEMSELVES. 

Or take Egypts stance on the flight that was suicided into the ocean just before 9/11. Its been proven without a doubt that it was an intentional suicide dive by the co-pilot, but Egypt calls it a mechanical failure. Shady world we live in.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Am I the only person here that finds it just a bit odd that all media outlets have now determined that the aircraft has crashed into the ocean, and all aboard are dead? Yet, no one has pulled a single piece of aircraft out of the water. Are ships even at the site of the "debris", yet?



The media outlets were not the ones that determined the aircraft crashed into the ocean.  They're just reporting the official word from the Malaysian government.  It appears the Malaysian government came to that conclusion after some complex satellite and other data examination by multiple governments including the British, China, Malaysia and probably the US.  They probably wouldn't have made that official statement considering it doesn't look like they've actually pulled any debris from the ocean unless they were say >99% sure.  That's a very remote part of the ocean and they've been hampered by some pretty heavy seas and severe weather.

Now, it's up to you to believe they're lying to us which would require a conspiracy across multiple governments.


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> Now, it's up to you to believe they're lying to us which would require a conspiracy across multiple governments.



With due respect, you draw your conclusions in a very odd fashion.


First, I never suggested they're lying.
Second, I never suggested a conspiracy.
Third, I have always and still do believe your original post and thus Goodfellow's theory was just the opposite of this threads title. That is, I've always felt a mechanical failure, given even the earliest information provided, in the absence of a distress call was the absolute least likely scenario. 
Fourth, I find it odd that the outcome has been determined when not a single piece of evidence has yet to be recovered. I also find it odd that it took over two weeks to draw this conclusion.
Fifth, see #2.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> With due respect, you draw your conclusions in a very odd fashion.
> 
> 
> First, I never suggested they're lying.
> Second, I never suggested a conspiracy.
> Third, I have always and still do believe your original post and thus Goodfellow's theory was just the opposite of this threads title. That is, I've always felt a mechanical failure, given even the earliest information provided, in the absence of a distress call was the absolute least likely scenario.
> Fourth, I find it odd that the outcome has been determined when not a single piece of evidence has yet to be recovered. I also find it odd that it took over two weeks to draw this conclusion.
> Fifth, see #2.



I never said you thought they were lying.

When it comes to your point #2, all the theories you posted and chose to believe in REQUIRED a conspiracy.  You can say you never suggested a conspiracy, but that's just not true.

When it comes to Goodfellow's theory, that's one of the few out there that I've seen that doesn't require some sort of conspiracy.


----------



## Passepartout

Well, the authorities say they have the search area narrowed down to about the size of Alaska. And now to tow a listening device to within a couple of surface miles of the as yet unknown wreckage site. Oh, in the next couple of weeks before the pingers quit pinging. Then to do a deep water recovery of the recorders that may yield no clues except that the plane ran out of fuel.

I don't see any closure here anytime soon- if ever.

Jim


----------



## pedro47

I still do not believe they have found this plane. At the point where they have found  debris the pilot could have return safely to the airport or sent out a SOS call.


----------



## ace2000

If they find the box, and I believe they will soon, there will be closure.  If they don't find the box then it will be a tough case to solve.

Edit: I still think the focus should be on the pilot.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Source: Flight 370's Altitude Dropped After Sharp Turn - By Sara Sidner, Catherine E. Shoichet and Evan Perez, CNN / cnn.com

"As a growing number of airplanes scoured the southern Indian Ocean in the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, authorities released new details that paint a different picture of what may have happened in the plane's cockpit.

Military radar tracking shows that the aircraft changed altitude after making a sharp turn over the South China Sea as it headed toward the Strait of Malacca, a source close to the investigation into the missing flight told CNN. The plane flew as low as 12,000 feet at some point before it disappeared from radar, according to the source.

The sharp turn seemed to be intentional, the source said, because executing it would have taken the Boeing 777 two minutes -- a time period during which the pilot or co-pilot could have sent an emergency signal if there had been a fire or other emergency onboard..."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Satellite Company Says It Predicted Missing Plane's Location 10 Days Ago -  By PAOLO MARENGHI and MIKE TREW / ABCNews.com

" A British satellite company said today that it had indications that the missing Malaysia Airlines plane may have crashed into the Indian Ocean as early as two days after the plane's disappearance.

The search for the jetliner did not move into the Indian Ocean until more than a week after the plane vanished in the middle of the night from Malaysian airspace on March 7.

"This is very troubling, just thinking of the time wasted and what was ever on the water moving farther away," said ABC News consultant Tom Haueter, a former National Transportation Safety Board investigator.

Inmarsat, the maker of satellites, told ABC News that they had an "initial idea" on March 9 and by March 10 were "fairly certain" that the search parties should look in the south Indian Ocean for the vanished plane..."


Richard


----------



## Phydeaux

Clemson Fan said:


> I never said you thought they were lying.
> 
> When it comes to your point #2,* all the theories you posted and chose to believe in REQUIRED a conspiracy*.  You can say you never suggested a conspiracy, but that's just not true.
> 
> *When it comes to Goodfellow's theory, that's one of the few out there that I've seen that doesn't require some sort of conspiracy*.



Look, you wrote: _Now, it's up to you to believe they're lying to us which would require a conspiracy across multiple governments. _ 

Tell me, what does this imply? 

Where in my theory did I suggest someone was lying? The pilot and possibly the copilot _conspiring_ amongst themselves, indeed. But where is the _lie_ in this? 

I'm afraid you've confused my theory that the pilot commandeered the aircraft, possibly with the aide of someone else such as the copilot, with someone lying, or conspiring _to me_. 

You would be mistaken, just as you are in buying into the theory that the aircraft suffered a mechanical event. And no, I don't think you're a conspiracy theorist for believing that.


----------



## SMHarman

Smokatoke said:


> The science behind this was pretty interesting on how they tracked the hypothetical path of the airplane. I am very intrigued though how they announced all 'lives are lost' based this data because its a very black and white statement, everyone is dead. But how do they know no one survived impact and was in a raft at one point? I can see how they assume the plane crashed into the ocean based on the data from satellites even without wreckage and their being nothing out there at all to land on, but to blatantly say everyone died without a shred of evidence is ridiculous.


Even if someone survived the impact and made it to a life raft they would have perished (likely in a far more uncomfortable way) in the middle of the Indian Ocean from cold or dehydration by now so with the confidence that they have calculated a route, that the route meant the plane ran out of fuel and that it ditched into the ocean and nothing was there to pull anyone out of the water it is sadly simple calculus that all lives are lost.
Even in warm summer coastal ocean water the body goes hypothermic fairly quickly, in a number of hours.  In the middle of a cold Indian ocean that is minutes.


Smokatoke said:


> Also the battery theory is such BS. The plane banked/turned hard, dropped in elevation turned back toward Malaysia and then FLEW 4-6 MORE HOURS TOWARD AUSTRALIA. If a major fire happens, you dont fly for 6 more hours in a completely different direction to the middle of no where. Experienced pilots can find land without all the fancy equipment, so to say they were blindly flying because the fire killed electronics is ridiculous. Now a fire knocking out all crew and passengers? Well a fire that bad with unstable batteries would have likely ignited ALL the batteries and cause an explosion, and THE PLANE WOULD NOT HAVE LASTED 6 MORE HOURS. Everyone wants to talk about the deadly batteries, and how large of a quantity they were, and how explosive they are, yet apparently they are so deadly they just start small fires that can go for 6 hours without downing a plane, and can selectively take out all systems aboard while still allowing the plane to fly... Comon people think this stuff out.


I'm sure I'll read this battery theory in a few minutes, but I'm sticking with my theory that the flight deck crew reprogrammed the FMS with the climb, descent and new route, donned their air masks and turned off the cabin air system to asphyxiate the cabin crew and pax.  
Then something in their plan went wrong and they did not turn the air system back on in time to prevent their cockpit air tanks running out and asphixiated themselves leaving everyone on the plane dead / unconcious.


----------



## Clemson Fan

ace2000 said:


> If they find the box, and I believe they will soon, there will be closure.  If they don't find the box then it will be a tough case to solve.
> 
> Edit: I still think the focus should be on the pilot.



I don't think there will ever be closure and a true understanding of why the plane flew in silence for 6-7 hours to one of the remotest areas on Earth.  My understanding is that the black boxes only record the last couple of hours before getting overwritten.  If that's the case, even if they do recover them in time, the information on them may just be a couple hours of silence and flying in a straight line until fuel was exhausted.

This one is going to be one of the classics for the conspiracy theorists to clammer on about for years and years to come.


----------



## SMHarman

Passepartout said:


> Well, the authorities say they have the search area narrowed down to about the size of Alaska. And now to tow a listening device to within a couple of surface miles of the as yet unknown wreckage site. Oh, in the next couple of weeks before the pingers quit pinging. Then to do a deep water recovery of the recorders that may yield no clues except that the plane ran out of fuel.
> 
> I don't see any closure here anytime soon- if ever.
> 
> Jim


Great quote from the Australian Military.  We have narrowed it down to the haystack, now we have to find the needle.


----------



## ace2000

Clemson Fan said:


> My understanding is that the black boxes only record the last couple of hours before getting overwritten.  If that's the case, even if they do recover them in time, the information on them may just be a couple hours of silence and flying in a straight line until fuel was exhausted.



It's probable that they won't contain the pilot conversation (two hours), but there's a lot more useful data that they record - much longer than two hours.  Speed, altitude, engine power, and flight controls are all monitored.  Also, there are two boxes.


----------



## SMHarman

This is an interesting image






It really shows that the point have discovered debris is where the satellite arc meets the 6-7 hours of fuel / flying time of the aircraft.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Phydeaux said:


> Look, you wrote: _Now, it's up to you to believe they're lying to us which would require a conspiracy across multiple governments. _
> 
> Tell me, what does this imply?
> 
> Where in my theory did I suggest someone was lying? The pilot and possibly the copilot _conspiring_ amongst themselves, indeed. But where is the _lie_ in this?
> 
> I'm afraid you've confused my theory that the pilot commandeered the aircraft, possibly with the aide of someone else such as the copilot, with someone lying, or conspiring _to me_.
> 
> You would be mistaken, just as you are in buying into the theory that the aircraft suffered a mechanical event. And no, I don't think you're a conspiracy theorist for believing that.



You believed that the pilot commandeered the aircraft and landed it safely somewhere.  Now, how would that be possible unless a major conspiracy was afoot?

As far as my statement, it was a simple If Then statement.  IOW, If you believe that the plane didn't crash in the Indian Ocean, Then you believe we're being lied to.  I didn't say that's what you believe and, thus, I didn't say that you said they were lying.

Is this how you finally admit you were wrong?


----------



## Smokatoke

SMHarman said:


> This is an interesting image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really shows that the point have discovered debris is where the satellite arc meets the 6-7 hours of fuel / flying time of the aircraft.



Awesome graphic. Please explain a fire happening at point 2, and then the plane flys that much longer all the way to the projected end point, not happening. It made way too many turns after point 2 not to be intentional


----------



## pedro47

Clemson Fan said:


> You believed that the pilot commandeered the aircraft and landed it safely somewhere.  Now, how would that be possible unless a major conspiracy was afoot?
> 
> As far as my statement, it was a simple If Then statement.  IOW, If you believe that the plane didn't crash in the Indian Ocean, Then you believe we're being lied to.  I didn't say that's what you believe and, thus, I didn't say that you said they were lying.
> 
> Is this how you finally admit you were wrong?



How many weapons of mass destruction how we found in that country that the USA invaded after 9/11 ?


----------



## SMHarman

Smokatoke said:


> Awesome graphic. Please explain a fire happening at point 2, and then the plane flys that much longer all the way to the projected end point, not happening. It made way too many turns after point 2 not to be intentional



Exactly, overlaid on the geographical map it looks like this was a well planned route that took the 'craft along a line between all the landmasses and out to see while avoiding radar detection.

I think the crew had planned this route and punched all of it into the FMS (will be interesting to see if the content of the FMS can be recovered in time)

Then asphyxiated themselves, then the FMS executed the plan until it ran out of plan and then ran out of fuel.


----------



## Patri

SMHarman said:


> Then asphyxiated themselves, then the FMS executed the plan until it ran out of plan and then ran out of fuel.



Thanks for the graphic. Very helpful in trying to get a grasp on this. 
If above scenario is true, serves the perpetrators right. So sad for the passengers, but hopefully most of them were sleeping anyway, since it was a red-eye. I hope they did not suffer, but they probably woke up when they couldn't get a breath. Don't know how that works.
And where are people thinking plane was most likely headed? May be on this thread, but too hard to go back.


----------



## Elan

SMHarman said:


> Exactly, overlaid on the geographical map it looks like this was a well planned route that took the 'craft along a line between all the landmasses and out to see while avoiding radar detection.



  If that graphic is accurate, this would seem to be the most logical explanation to date.


----------



## ricoba

SMHarman said:


> Exactly, overlaid on the geographical map it looks like this was a well planned route that took the 'craft along a line between all the landmasses and out to see while avoiding radar detection.
> 
> I think the crew had planned this route and punched all of it into the FMS (will be interesting to see if the content of the FMS can be recovered in time)
> 
> Then asphyxiated themselves, then the FMS executed the plan until it ran out of plan and then ran out of fuel.




So, you are saying this whole thing was an intentional act by the flight crew?  

Not saying that you may not be correct, but there are just so many theories out there, I am just not sure we may ever know what really happened.

If this was intentionally done, then, what was the purpose for the crew doing this?  Just curious.


----------



## ace2000

ricoba said:


> So, you are saying this whole thing was an intentional act by the flight crew?
> 
> Not saying that you may not be correct, but there are just so many theories out there, I am just not sure we may ever know what really happened.
> 
> If this was intentionally done, then, what was the purpose for the crew doing this?  Just curious.



See post #4.  It all adds up.


----------



## ace2000

ace2000 said:


> At this point, anyone would be crazy not to believe it's in the Indian ocean.  That's where they are seeing the floating debris and that's where they are frantically searching.
> 
> If anyone believes otherwise at this point, please step forward.



Where'd everybody go ???


----------



## Smokatoke

Anything beyond looking at the plane trajectory data is pure fabrication. Even saying it was intentional is questionable even though the flight path screams it.

Then we get into decompressions and knocking out the crew is wild speculation based on what, a movie you watched? Ninjas taking over the flight has just as much evidence as your theory. If you really want to believe a plane take over for a meet up, you could say when they dipped to 12k feet the skydived out, just as supportable


----------



## ace2000

Smokatoke said:


> Anything beyond looking at the plane trajectory data is pure fabrication. Even saying it was intentional is questionable even though the flight path screams it.



The whole thread is full of fabrication and questionable theories.  Where you been?


----------



## Beefnot

If there was a huge malfunction and they lost all ability to communicate and navigate via flight instrumentation, can skilled pilots still navigate effectively in the dark?  I thought that it didn't matter how skilled a pilot was, they cannot navigate by sight/feel in darkness.  If a malfunction of this nature happened and they could not effectively navigate at all, then by the time sunrise happened and they were in the middle of nowhere, they were pretty much dead in the water.  Pardon the pun.


----------



## SMHarman

ricoba said:


> So, you are saying this whole thing was an intentional act by the flight crew?
> 
> Not saying that you may not be correct, but there are just so many theories out there, I am just not sure we may ever know what really happened.
> 
> If this was intentionally done, then, what was the purpose for the crew doing this?  Just curious.


I've said it somewhere further back, I think there was a plan to steal the 'craft but it went awry.


Smokatoke said:


> Anything beyond looking at the plane trajectory data is pure fabrication. Even saying it was intentional is questionable even though the flight path screams it.
> 
> Then we get into decompressions and knocking out the crew is wild speculation based on what, a movie you watched? Ninjas taking over the flight has just as much evidence as your theory. If you really want to believe a plane take over for a meet up, you could say when they dipped to 12k feet the skydived out, just as supportable


OK, what is the heading of this thread?


ace2000 said:


> The whole thread is full of fabrication and questionable theories.  Where you been?


Some would call these the 'Most plausible explanation of mystery of Malasyian Flight 370', others have their own opinions. 


Beefnot said:


> If there was a huge malfunction and they lost all ability to communicate and navigate via flight instrumentation, can skilled pilots still navigate effectively in the dark?  I thought that it didn't matter how skilled a pilot was, they cannot navigate by sight/feel in darkness.  If a malfunction of this nature happened and they could not effectively navigate at all, then by the time sunrise happened and they were in the middle of nowhere, they were pretty much dead in the water.  Pardon the pun.


I guess the leap of faith to take there is that you loose all comms and navigation but a flyby wire plane just keeps cruising along, and does not and up in the water nearby this communication failure.
Even with all electronics down the pilots have a manual gyroscope to level the plane and set a compass heading.  They also have paper maps, or an independently powered iPad or other digital flightcase.  Or a cellphone with GPS.
If I take your scenareo and think it through you now have a mechanically operated 777 with no FMS or comms but a conciouse crew on the flight deck.
You climb out of confusion, you dive out of confusion and then level off.  You now know which direction you are flying on and can navigate by heading, GPS on your cell phone, whatever, to a suitable runway to get back on the ground.

All the turns as the plane navigated out to the indian ocean don't comport with that theory.


----------



## Chrispee

SMHarman said:


> You now know which direction you are flying on and can navigate by heading, GPS on your cell phone, whatever, to a suitable runway to get back on the ground.
> 
> All the turns as the plane navigated out to the indian ocean don't comport with that theory.



In addition, all pilots are trained in celestial navigation, and flying a 777 with gyros under VFR is not as daunting a task as it sounds.  Basically, you have a giant Cessna 172.

I still believe that could have played a role in the events that transpired.  At altitude, pilots can still function for a length of time but in a state not unlike being on prescription meds.  This could account for some of the maneuvers and the altitude changes.  FL12 would let you function, but in an inebriated state.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Beefnot said:


> If there was a huge malfunction and they lost all ability to communicate and navigate via flight instrumentation, can skilled pilots still navigate effectively in the dark?



Well, the plane apparently followed a path between known instrument navigation waypoints prior to making the turn over the Indian Ocean.  So they couldn't have lost the ability to navigate via flight instrumentation, regardless of whether it was being flown by autopilot or manually.


----------



## Clemson Fan

ace2000 said:


> Where'd everybody go ???



I went skiing as I'm currently on vacation at my ski-in/out timeshare with my family.  Awesome day!  My favorite family vacation of the year!  Per the ski tracks app, me, my wife and 9 year old son skied 14 miles.


----------



## ricoba

ace2000 said:


> See post #4.  It all adds up.





SMHarman said:


> I've said it somewhere further back, I think there was a plan to steal the 'craft but it went awry..



I know this whole thread is conjecture, but I just don't see how a supposed liberal human rights advocate pilot would capture a plane and end up destroying it to simply prove a political point against the Malaysian government.  

Now, I may be 100% wrong, and these theories may be fully accurate, but at this time, I just don't get it.


----------



## DeniseM

According to news reports - his wife left him the same day, so maybe he was despondent.


----------



## ricoba

DeniseM said:


> According to news reports - his wife left him the same day, so maybe he was despondent.



That would give a whole new (and terrible) meaning to the term "murder-suicide".


----------



## ace2000

DeniseM said:


> According to news reports - his wife left him the same day, so maybe he was despondent.



See post #4.  It all adds up.  It's amazing that the news is picking up on that now.


----------



## easyrider

My nature always looks at the worse case scenarios on these types of dealios. To me the worse thing that can happen is to see the plane used as a weapon. 

One thing for sure is that this flight has been a big distraction in the media. While were watching the search of flight 370 the Russians took Crimea and are looking at other parts of the region, the Polish Government has recalled its military reserves, Israel has hunkered down after going through a massive ongoing rocket attack and so much more. I have read an ancient script that seems to actually predict these worldwide events. Its not a secrete script as its in the top drawer of most motel nightstands. 

So until they actually prove with certainty that the plane is found, which at some point it should be, Im sticking to it will be used in a nefarious fashion. 

Bill


----------



## PigsDad

easyrider said:


> So until they actually prove with certainty that the plane is found, which at some point it should be, Im sticking to it will be used in a nefarious fashion.


Really Bill???  

1) They know where the plane was by the hourly pings to the satellite.  
2) They know the minimum fuel consumption of that plane, and how much fuel it had.
3) They know at the point of the last ping, the plane did not have enough fuel to reach any land mass, let alone an airport.

I know you said your "nature" is to assume worst case, but are you saying it is not logical that the plane is in the ocean?  And that it will still be used by some bad guys?  I know -- maybe this was one of those super-secret amphibious 777s that can land on the ocean, get refueled, load up some explosives, and take off again? 

Kurt


----------



## Chrispee

PigsDad said:


> I know -- maybe this was one of those super-secret amphibious 777s that can land on the ocean, get refueled, load up some explosives, and take off again?
> 
> Kurt



That's only marginally more far-fetched than a 777 that lands undetected with limited navigational aids, on an 8000+ foot cement strip, with a hanger big enough to hide it from satellite view, with 50,000 gallons of jet fuel on hand, in a geographical location where it can take off again undetected.


----------



## SMHarman

Chrispee said:


> That's only marginally more far-fetched than a 777 that lands undetected with limited navigational aids, on an 8000+ foot cement strip, with a hanger big enough to hide it from satellite view, with 50,000 gallons of jet fuel on hand, in a geographical location where it can take off again undetected.



LMFAO    :hysterical:

Tough Day at work and I just cracked up.


----------



## csxjohn

Do planes that fly over water carry an EPIRB or are those stricly for boats?


----------



## easyrider

PigsDad said:


> Really Bill???
> 
> 1) They know where the plane was by the hourly pings to the satellite.
> 2) They know the minimum fuel consumption of that plane, and how much fuel it had.
> 3) They know at the point of the last ping, the plane did not have enough fuel to reach any land mass, let alone an airport.
> 
> I know you said your "nature" is to assume worst case, but are you saying it is not logical that the plane is in the ocean?  And that it will still be used by some bad guys?  I know -- maybe this was one of those super-secret amphibious 777s that can land on the ocean, get refueled, load up some explosives, and take off again?
> 
> Kurt



A person need the ability to entertain a thought. Neither accepting or rejecting the thought, just entertaining the thought without emotion. This is just one of those thoughts. 

With the technology they are using to find 370 everything suggests that all went the way you describe but even with the technology the search area is larger than the state of Alaska. 

Most people didn't think an airplane could be used to bring down the Twin Towers until they did. 

Theoretically, the ability to hack into an aviation system exists. This is interesting to me anyway and contrary to what most people think. I believe the talent is out there to hack this. 

http://treeatwork.blogspot.com/2014/03/on-hacking-777-myanmar-airspace-and.html

Bill


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

easyrider said:


> My nature always looks at the worse case scenarios on these types of dealios. To me the worse thing that can happen is to see the plane used as a weapon.
> 
> One thing for sure is that this flight has been a big distraction in the media. While were watching the search of flight 370 the Russians took Crimea and are looking at other parts of the region, the Polish Government has recalled its military reserves, Israel has hunkered down after going through a massive ongoing rocket attack and so much more. I have read an ancient script that seems to actually predict these worldwide events. Its not a secrete script as its in the top drawer of most motel nightstands.
> 
> So until they actually prove with certainty that the plane is found, which at some point it should be, Im sticking to it will be used in a nefarious fashion.
> 
> Bill



You're being silly, Bill.  You're saying that the only standard of evidence is proving the negative.

You are the one making the assertion that it will be used for nefarious purposes.  You are the one who bears the burden of proof for that assertion.  You do not prove your case by your refusal to accept the arguments for another premise because they haven't proven yours impossible.

I trust that you, like Linus, also believe in the Great Pumpkin.  After all, the existence of the Great Pumpkin has never been proven false, either.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

easyrider said:


> A person need the ability to entertain a thought. Neither accepting or rejecting the thought, just entertaining the thought without emotion. This is just one of those thoughts.



Entertaining a thought without emotions is one thing. Holding to a thought that flies in the face of dispassionate evidence just because you are attracted by the thought is the essence of entertaining a thought with emotion. 

I'm not against the notion of entertaining a thought because of emotion.  Most great discoveries in science and technology came about because someone not only entertained a thought with emotion, but passionately believed in the thought.  But success comes when one entertains a thought with emotion, but also embraces the information that challenges the thought.  The ensuing dialectic leads to a better theory.  

So instead of saying I don't believe, infuse your disbelief with an accounting for the information that challenges your thought.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Fabien Cousteau: It May Take Years to Find Flight 370 - from Marketwatch.com

Fabien Cousteau, 46, oceanographic explorer, conservationist and grandson of legendary explorer Jacques Cousteau, has been following the search for the missing jetliner. Cousteau, who will himself soon lead “ Mission 31 ,” an exploration team that will spend 31 days submerged in the Red Sea, spoke to MarketWatch about the prospects of ever finding Malaysia Flight 370. ''


Richard


----------



## easyrider

Steve, I like what your saying. Not metaphorically speaking, I do believe in God even though I have no corporeal evidence. I also think it is possible to prove a negative to disprove a positive and vise versa. That is the premise of most scientific research, imo. 

Anyway, I have been involved with the burden of proof in empirical subjects discussion a few times and the difficulty is both sides are right and both sides are wrong. Toss a coin.  Certainly the media evidence is more than empirical but it is still somewhat subjective as to what media a person takes advantage of. 

The easy explanation of this flight, to me anyway, just seems convenient and also very contradictory. The media explanation will become the "truth" even with out physical evidence as the story airs repeatedly masking all other issues. The act of diverting the plane is nefarious enough for me.

Bill


----------



## ace2000

More news on the pilot's state of mind...



> Sources close to the inquiry were quoted by Britain's Daily Telegraph as saying investigators believed Flight 370 was crashed deliberately.
> 
> "This has been a deliberate act by someone on-board who had to have the detailed knowledge to do what was done," an official source said.
> 
> Investigators believe no malfunction or on-board fire was capable of causing the aircraft's unusual flight or the disabling of its communications system, or of taking it on a seven-hour flight wildly off course.
> 
> New Zealand aviation expert Peter Clark said he believed Captain Zaharie may have been responsible.
> 
> "This had to be a pilot or somebody with expert knowledge, who had to know what they were doing to complete this," Mr Clark said.
> 
> "It had to be somebody with immense knowledge ... the co-pilot would not have the capability of doing this. It's a takeover of the aircraft, it can only be the pilot."



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=665&objectid=11226334


----------



## "Roger"

easyrider said:


> A
> Most people didn't think an airplane could be used to bring down the Twin Towers until they did.
> 
> Theoretically, the ability to hack into an aviation system exists. This is interesting to me anyway and contrary to what most people think. I believe the talent is out there to hack this.
> 
> http://treeatwork.blogspot.com/2014/03/on-hacking-777-myanmar-airspace-and.html
> 
> Bill


There is a huge difference between 

"Most people didn't think an airplane could be used to bring down the Twin Towers."​
and 

Most people never considered the possibility that an airplane might be used to bring down the Twin Towers.​
The second statement is true, the first is not.

As far as the linked article goes, I have seen others cite the possibility that the plane's computer system might be hacked.  I won't rule that out, but it is not that easy to align that possibility with some of the happenings.  

Not referring specifically to the poster, I have noticed a tendency during this whole affair for people (properly) to treat official pronouncements with a degree of skepticism, but use a completely different standard when confronted with an alternative explanation.  The degree of skeptical inquiry goes down enormously.

Going back to the alternative explanation in the linked thread, one thing that the article simply blows off is the possibility that the satellite pings could be used to trace the path of the plane.  That turned out to be wrong.  Thus, if the system was hacked (lots of questions would need to be answered before I buy into that), the intended purpose would appear to have been (a.) doing it just for the sake of doing it (a feather in the hacker's cap), or, (b.) the intended destruction of this specific plane (and not its capture for later use).  

As far as the supposed capture of the plane, one question that you might ask yourself is, if it was hacked so it could be used for future destruction, why bother?  If planes can be hacked successfully, it would be simpler and less open to premature exposure to just hack a plane near the intended target and ram it into whatever. Escaping radar detection, finding a landing strip X with the proper facilities, hiding the landing strip and the hanger from satellite view, etc. might make a good James Bond plot, but it definitely is not the easiest nor most likely scenario for hacking the controls of a plane and using  it  as a weapon.


----------



## ace2000

ace2000 said:


> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=665&objectid=11226334



Quote from the same source...



> The captain of Flight 370 was in no state of mind to fly the day it disappeared and could have taken the Boeing 777 for a "last joyride" before crashing into the Indian Ocean, a fellow pilot says.
> 
> Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah's world was crumbling, said the long-time associate. He had been facing serious family problems, including separation from his wife and relationship problems with another woman he was seeing.
> 
> The man, who spoke to the Herald on condition of anonymity, said Captain Zaharie was "terribly upset" when his wife told him she was leaving and believed he may have decided to take the Malaysia Airlines plane to a part of the world he had never flown in.



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=665&objectid=11226334


----------



## Beefnot

"Roger" said:


> There is a huge difference between  "Most people didn't think an airplane could be used to bring down the Twin Towers."​and  Most people never considered the possibility that an airplane might be used to bring down the Twin Towers.​


 

Agree that the statements have different meanings, but I would argue that they are both true.




ace2000 said:


> Quote from the same source...
> 
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=665&objectid=11226334



Interesting....​


----------



## ace2000

Beefnot said:


> Interesting....​



Been saying it for over a week now (post #4).  You can either speculate that the airliner was downed by a "freak" fire that has never happened in the history of industry or you can focus on the pilot.  

Also, there are some news reports that mention that he attended a famous trial of an opposition leader the day of the night flight (see post #4).  When do we see that story spread across the mainstream news?


----------



## Beefnot

ace2000 said:


> Been saying it for over a week now (post #4). You can either speculate that the airliner was downed by a "freak" fire that has never happened in the history of industry or you can focus on the pilot.
> 
> Also, there are some news reports that mention that he attended a famous trial of an opposition leader the day of the night flight (see post #4). When do we see that story spread across the mainstream news?



I hear you, but if you want to see some freak mechanical things you would never ever have considered, watch some old "Air Emergency" episodes. True real life crazy stuff that happened in the air. That made me a believer that any freak anything is possible.


----------



## ace2000

Beefnot said:


> That made me a believer that any freak anything is possible.



Everything's possible.  Which is the most plausible?  

The OP started with the Goodfellow theory and I quickly responded to look at the pilot's actions.


----------



## MULTIZ321

French Satellite Images Show 122 'New Objects' Possibly Linked. To MH370http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/03/french-satellite-images-show-122-new-objects-possibly-linked-to-mh370/359605/ from The Atlantic Wire.



Richard


----------



## easyrider

After reading the title of this thread I noticed Im posting the " least plausible" explanations in a "most plausible" explanations thread. My bad. Posters going off subject in a different direction has often made me wonder what their dealio is. whoopsie

Off subject a bit once again is that this can't be good for any small country airlines. Im thinking I wouldn't ever fly Malaysia Air. Because of the value of tourism in these small countries to their economies it would be better for them to blame a mechanical failure than have evidence of an unstable pilot or to admit terrorism. I bet they are hoping for no recovery of the black boxes that can prove otherwise. 

The regional tourism may be one of the casualties of this event. imo

Bill


----------



## CarolF

easyrider said:


> Off subject a bit once again is that this can't be good for any small country airlines. Im thinking I wouldn't ever fly Malaysia Air. Because of the value of tourism in these small countries to their economies it would be better for them to blame a mechanical failure than have evidence of an unstable pilot or to admit terrorism. I bet they are hoping for no recovery of the black boxes that can prove otherwise.
> 
> The regional tourism may be one of the casualties of this event. imo
> 
> Bill



Malaysian Airlines is one of the few airlines to achieve 5 stars with Skytrax.  They have had an excellent reputation for more years than I can remember.

http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/MH.htm 

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...-world-2013-4?op=1#2-malaysia-airlines-tie-19

To admit suicide by an "unstable" pilot would be an enormous loss of face for the Malaysian government.  It doesn't get any worse than that.


----------



## ace2000

Well, I'll be.  Guess what the mainstream news says is "most" plausible now...


*Malaysia jet disappearance no accident, investigator says*


> The pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines jet is believed to be solely responsible for the flight being taken hundreds of miles off course and there is no evidence of a mechanical failure or hijacking by a passenger, according to an law enforcement official involved in the investigation.
> 
> A high-ranking officer attached to a special investigative branch of the Malaysia police force in Kuala Lumpur told USA TODAY on Wednesday that investigators are pressing relatives of the pilot, Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah, for information on his behavior leading up to the March 8 flight.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/26/malaysia-missing-plane/6907359/


----------



## pedro47

Where is the true evidence that this is the plane?


----------



## Clemson Fan

ace2000 said:


> Well, I'll be.  Guess what the mainstream news says is "most" plausible now...
> 
> 
> *Malaysia jet disappearance no accident, investigator says*
> 
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/26/malaysia-missing-plane/6907359/



It may very well be the pilot.  I'll agree it's looking that way.  However, let's be very careful about how much credence we give to an "anonymous" source.


----------



## Clemson Fan

pedro47 said:


> Where is the true evidence that this is the plane?



It's on the moon with the remanats of the lunar modules.


----------



## ace2000

pedro47 said:


> Where is the true evidence that this is the plane?



Haven't you been reading the news?  They keep finding the plane.  The only problem is they can't find the plane.


----------



## csxjohn

Maybe the US Navy has it.

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1753.htm

Or maybe it was a deliberate murder. 

From an email going around.




> Here's what you all need to know. Spread this information everywhere:
> 
> Four days after the missing flight MH370 a patent is approved by the Patent Office
> 
> 4 of the 5 Patent holders are Chinese employees of Freescale Semiconductor of Austin TX.
> 
> Patent is divided up on 20% increments to 5 holders:
> 
> Peidong Wang, Suzhou, China, (20%)
> Zhijun Chen, Suzhou, China, (20%)
> Zhihong Cheng, Suzhou, China, (20%)
> Li Ying, Suzhou, China, (20%)
> Freescale Semiconductor (20%)
> 
> If a patent holder dies, then the remaining holders equally share the dividends of the deceased if not disputed in a will.
> 
> If 4 of the 5 dies, then the remaining 1 Patent holder gets 100% of the wealth of the patent.
> 
> That remaining live Patent holder is Freescale Semiconductor.
> 
> Who owns Freescale Semiconductor?
> 
> Jacob Rothschild through Blackstone (what an interesting name for a company) who owns Freescale.
> 
> Here is your motive for the missing plane. As all 4 Chinese members of the Patent were passengers on the missing plane, and that patent was the breakthrough. We have entered the future proper, and four men was just murdered so that the last, still living member can keep this for himself to either hide or profit from.



But Snopes says it's not in the Burmuda Triangle as had been "reported" on FaceBook.

http://www.snopes.com/computer/facebook/malaysia.asp


----------



## Beefnot

Now that's what I'm talking about.  I loves me a good conspiracy.  If it's true, I hope some enterprising investigative reporting chases this down.  Before his or her untimely demise...


----------



## Phydeaux

The satellite debris 'confirmation' was made how many days ago? 

How many more days will it take ships to reach the debris site? Are these slow boats?


----------



## SMHarman

ace2000 said:


> Well, I'll be.  Guess what the mainstream news says is "most" plausible now...
> 
> *Malaysia jet disappearance no accident, investigator says*
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/26/malaysia-missing-plane/6907359/


So the conspiracy theorists will have a field day, just like silk air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185
Was it some catastrophic failure of the rudder or was it suicide?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

Was it catastrophic failure on the 777 of the life systems, a fire, or was it suicide?


----------



## MULTIZ321

New MH370 Puzzle Scrambles Search - by Clive Irving/ The Hunt for Flight 370/ The DailyBeast.com

The search zone for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight was shifted by almost 700 miles when it emerged that the the plane was flying much faster than previously thought.

The change in the search target zone for Flight MH370 seems to reveal how much can be calculated about the Boeing 777’s last hours in the air with very little information.

In order to fix the airplane’s position three things are essential: its direction, height and speed.The first information acted upon in directing the search was the most crucial: direction. This came from pings received by the London-based Inmarsat satellite operator. It was the thinnest of clues, based on hourly signals showing that the 777 was still “alive.”

Using previously untried technology, the experts looking at the Inmarsat data were able slowly to refine the airplane’s course, beginning with a huge arc extending north of the Himalayas into Asia down to the remote southern Indian Ocean, and then settling on a smaller area, about the size of Alaska, to the southwest of Australia.

But the Inmarsat information was unable to indicate either the altitude or the speed of the airplane. What is striking about the new calculations is that they are projecting a higher speed and, therefore, a higher consumption of fuel which, in turn, means the jet ran out of fuel sooner and did not end up in the fearsome “roaring forties” of the southern Indian Ocean.

However, this issue of speed introduces a new puzzle..."





Paul Kane/AFP/Getty


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

How Satellites Tracked Down Flight MH370 - But Why We Still Can't Find the Plane (Updated) - by Sebastian Anthony/ Electronics/ ExtremeTech.com





Inmarsat’s global coverage. The satellite that tracked flight MH370 is shown in purple.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Airline 'Black Boxes' Are Drowning in Red Tape - by Vlad Savov/ Policy & Law/ U.S. & World/ TheVerge.com

Tied up in bureaucracy and cost concerns, the flight recorder is growing ever more archaic

Richard


----------



## Karen G

I haven't read all the posts in this thread so if this has been covered, I apologize. But, here's  a story I haven't heard before.


----------



## Tia

Who would of thought in today's World it might be cost concerns 



MULTIZ321 said:


> Airline 'Black Boxes' Are Drowning in Red Tape - by Vlad Savov/ Policy & Law/ U.S. & World/ TheVerge.com
> 
> Tied up in bureaucracy and cost concerns, the flight recorder is growing ever more archaic
> 
> Richard


----------



## ace2000

Phydeaux said:


> The satellite debris 'confirmation' was made how many days ago?
> 
> How many more days will it take ships to reach the debris site? Are these slow boats?



Really slow boats....


----------



## PigsDad

Karen G said:


> I haven't read all the posts in this thread so if this has been covered, I apologize. But, here's  a story I haven't heard before.



That's is just someone's distasteful prank.  They enhanced a prank story that was published on March 18th:  https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/27839190/

Personally, I think it is of very bad taste and shows no respect for all those passengers who lost their lives by these idiots making up stories just to get attention, web hits, etc.

Anyone who knows anything about EXIF data (their main source of "proof") can easily see how stupid the story is.

Kurt


----------



## easyrider

PigsDad said:


> That's is just someone's distasteful prank.  They enhanced a prank story that was published on March 18th:  https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/27839190/
> 
> Personally, I think it is of very bad taste and shows no respect for all those passengers who lost their lives by these idiots making up stories just to get attention, web hits, etc.
> 
> Anyone who knows anything about EXIF data (their main source of "proof") can easily see how stupid the story is.
> 
> Kurt



If the engineers hands were free it would be possible and kind of gross to pull his phone out of his butt. 

Because he has an iphone 5 he could use voice commands to log in, send text and pictures or even call some one. 

The efix data originally showed the location and has been altered but there are some that still have the original. So we will see.  

My thought is there shouldn't be a free wi fi hot zone with no password available to anyone in a military base, especially a military prison. Maybe there is an ATT tower with 4g for the civillian workers and spouses, idk. 

Bill


----------



## ace2000

Interesting article discussing the plane.  


*Six Possible Answers To Missing Plane Mystery*


> A panel of experts - including pilots, airline bosses, manufacturers and regulators - met in central London on Tuesday and tried to throw light on the mystery.



http://news.sky.com/story/1235459/six-possible-answers-to-missing-plane-mystery


----------



## "Roger"

There are several early reports about a Chinese ship having picked up a signal of the right frequency to be the black box.  Maybe ...


----------



## Tia

Just plain too fishy the whole deal imo 



ace2000 said:


> Interesting article discussing the plane.
> 
> 
> *Six Possible Answers To Missing Plane Mystery*
> 
> 
> http://news.sky.com/story/1235459/six-possible-answers-to-missing-plane-mystery


----------



## Passepartout

"Roger" said:


> There are several early reports about a Chinese ship having picked up a signal of the right frequency to be the black box.  Maybe ...



No link to the missing plane, and still, not the first piece of flotsam has been found. There are lots of people in denial, But those in the know are quietly saying that this may join Amelia Earhart in the annals of aviation mystery and never be found.


----------



## easyrider

I heard this morning on the news that a Chinese ship has heard the ping thing.

Bill


----------



## MULTIZ321

Banter Keeps Up Morale Among Flight 370 Searchers - by Nick Perry/ The Associated Press/ pulse.me

...The air force crew members, who fly a P-3 Orion turboprop, have been searching for over a week now as part of an international effort to unravel the mystery of the Malaysia Airlines plane that vanished four weeks ago. Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott on Thursday described it as the most difficult search operation ever.

The 12 New Zealanders have the discipline and teamwork that comes with military life, not to mention a slogan: "Ready, resilient, respected." But they also have a kind of folksiness borne of being a small squadron in a tiny air force.

They've developed a reputation around Pearce, the base near Perth where the search planes fly from, as being fun, relaxed and responsible for serving up terrific inflight food. That includes freshly roasted meat and sandwiches they toast in two frying pans.

The Orion is nearly 50 years old, although it has been updated many times. Still, it's nothing like a passenger plane and is filled with rattles and a constant noise that make the headsets necessary..."






Kudos to all the searchers enduring all the hardships and frustrations of trying to locate MH370.


Richard


----------



## Pat H

I just heard that new radar analysis shows that the plane flew around Malaysia instead of over it probably to avoid radar detection. In that case the plane would have used up fuel sooner than thought. The mystery gets stranger by the day.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Ocean Shield, the Ship That Saved the Search for MH370 - by Clive Irving/ TheDailyBeast.com

"In 24 hours, the search area went from 18,000 square miles to 36 square miles all thanks to one piece of Aussie equipment."

The International team is doing amazing work,.

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2014/04
/11/ocean-shield-the-ship-that-saved-the-search-for-mh370/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/1397246354178.cached.jpg
Landov


Richard


----------



## Passepartout

I find it curious that to date, and notwithstanding the search area has shrunken so much, not a single piece of floating anything has turned up that is attributable to MH370. The pings have been silent for over a day. Authorities have questioned that the pings were from some leftover oceanographic equipment. 

It appears, we are no closer to finding the wreckage than a month ago. Talking to some aviation company friends, there is speculation that even IF the wreckage is found, and IF the recorders on board can be retrieved, the odds are that they will not provide any answers. 2 hours of silence from the cockpit voice recorder, and a final flight of 'normal auto-pilot' controls on the data recorder from the time it was set until fuel exhaustion. Even if found, there is nothing either recorder could contain that would prevent a recurrence of whatever happened. What we know now: A perfectly good airplane flew off course until running out of fuel.

A great mystery that may well never be solved, and hundreds of millions spent on it.

Jim


----------



## csxjohn

Passepartout said:


> ... hundreds of millions spent on it.
> 
> Jim



That's the part that amazes me.  Countries around the world can find resources to fund a search like this when everyone claims that they are all broke.


----------



## tompalm

csxjohn said:


> That's the part that amazes me.  Countries around the world can find resources to fund a search like this when everyone claims that they are all broke.



This is a military op.  The men get paid the same if they are searching for MH370 or out flying a training mission.  They are using forward deployed forces that are already out in the Indian Ocean or western pacific.  They are using more fuel and maybe flying more hours, but at the end of the year, it will balance out.  So, the cost is about the same.  

I spent 20 years doing this and flying P-3s.  Most of the time fighting the cold war, but whenever a search and rescue came up, we were called out and forgot about the soviets. All my deployments were to the IO flying around the east coast of Africa, Australia or south of India.  Also, a lot of time spent in the south China Sea.


----------



## SMHarman

tompalm said:


> This is a military op.  The men get paid the same if they are searching for MH370 or out flying a training mission.  They are using forward deployed forces that are already out in the Indian Ocean or western pacific.  They are using more fuel and maybe flying more hours, but at the end of the year, it will balance out.  So, the cost is about the same.
> 
> I spent 20 years doing this and flying P-3s.  Most of the time fighting the cold war, but whenever a search and rescue came up, we were called out and forgot about the soviets. All my deployments were to the IO flying around the east coast of Africa, Australia or south of India.  Also, a lot of time spent in the south China Sea.


They are using more fuel, but those pilots all need to keep their hours up so they are doing it for a purpose not just buzzing around the sky.


----------



## MULTIZ321

China's Efforts in Hunt for Plane are Seen as Hurting More Than Helping - by Kirk Semple and Eric Schmitt/ Asia Pacific/ World/ The New York Times.com

"KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — When a Chinese government vessel took the world by surprise this month when it announced that it had detected underwater signals that might have come from the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, China suddenly looked like the hero of the multinational search effort.

Within days, however, the Chinese claims were discounted, and attention shifted to another set of signals recorded by American personnel aboard an Australian ship hundreds of miles away.

Still, the Chinese claims have left some officials from the United States and other participating countries quietly seething. The announcement was only one in a series of moves by China that might have been intended to project competence, according to officials and analysts, but only served to distract and delay the search effort..."





 Chinese claims that its Haixun 01 vessel had twice detected underwater signals, perhaps from the missing plane, were discounted. Credit Pool photo by Greg Wood 

I don't think the Malaysian government has been very forthcoming either.
Apparently, they just released some news today that the co-pilots cell phone was on and was detected by a cell-phone tower on the Malaysian coast at a time after the responder equipment had been turned off.  Just another clue to the puzzle that is very difficult to interpret.


Richard


----------



## Rose Pink

MULTIZ321 said:


> I don't think the Malaysian government has been very forthcoming either.
> Apparently, they just released some news today that the co-pilots cell phone was on and was detected by a cell-phone tower on the Malaysian coast at a time after the responder equipment had been turned off.  Just another clue to the puzzle that is very difficult to interpret.
> 
> 
> Richard



Is it possible the cell phone was on but not being actively used to talk?  My technology ignorance is showing again, I know.


----------



## Passepartout

The Malaysian government also said 3-4 days ago that they were still holding out hope for survivors! Talk about unbridled optimism. Or delusion. I vote the latter.


----------



## Rose Pink

Passepartout said:


> The Malaysian government also said 3-4 days ago that they were still holding out hope for survivors! Talk about unbridled optimism. Or delusion. I vote the latter.



How could anyone survive that long without fresh water?  The only way I can see for survivors is if the plane landed or crashed in a remote area or if they truly were hijacked to who-knows-where.  I think we'd have heard something by now such as ransom requests if that were the case.


----------



## Passepartout

Australian authorities who had been planning to use a robotic submersible to map the ocean floor and perhaps locate the missing jet brought it back to the surface. They say the ocean is just too deep in the search area for it to operate.

Here's my totally unfounded opinion. This missing jet and the mystery surrounding it's disappearance will never be found.

Someday, somewhere, something will wash up on some shore or be tangled in a fisherman's net, but that will only serve to rejuvenate the mystery.


----------



## Blues

I'm an engineer at an oceanographic research institute.  While I haven't designed AUVs, I *have* designed ROVs; and members of our engineering department were critically involved in the design of the Bluefin AUV that's currently deployed on the search.  And I've been involved in a few underwater searches myself.  Here are my opinions on what needs to happen.

First, they need to use shipboard side-scan sonar to do a rough map of the ocean floor.  While shipboard sonar can't paint a detailed enough map to find the wreckage, what it *can* do is map much wider areas of the ocean bottom much quicker than the AUV.  The resulting map can give them a clearer understanding of the ocean depths they're dealing with.  They can then use that knowledge to better plan the AUV operations, rather than randomly hitting a depth abort.  And they just might get lucky enough to see something anomalous in the low-res sidescan image.

With that knowledge, I'd then reprogram the Bluefin to selectively violate its depth envelope.  That system should have a 20% safety factor in its design depth.  While one normally doesn't want to use that safety factor, doing so selectively may significantly speed the process.

Finally, all the news reports about how long such a search will take are true.  Frankly, I'm surprised they're only projecting some number of weeks.  They must have the area pretty well narrowed down to be able to search in that amount of time. 

-Bob


----------



## pedro47

This plane will never be found.


----------



## Patri

pedro47 said:


> This plane will never be found.



Sadly, I'm starting to believe you are right.


----------



## easyrider

*Looks like they found 370*

Fox news has reported that flight 370 has been found. 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/09/flight-370-effort-could-soon-shift-from-search-to-recovery/



> The team of international investigators hunting for Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 has "unquestionably" located the missing jetliner and could soon have high resolution images of the wreck site, an expert in deep sea recoveries of ships and planes told FoxNews.com.



Bill


----------



## ace2000

easyrider said:


> Fox news has reported that flight 370 has been found.



Wait a minute.  That story is a week old.  I hope the expert is right though.


----------



## Blues

easyrider said:


> Fox news has reported that flight 370 has been found.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/09/flight-370-effort-could-soon-shift-from-search-to-recovery/





> The team of international investigators hunting for Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 has "unquestionably" located the missing jetliner and could soon have high resolution images of the wreck site, an expert in deep sea recoveries of ships and planes told FoxNews.com.



That Fox News article is dated April 9 - one week ago.  Funny, I haven't heard about any recovery of wreckage yet 

-Bob
ETA - Ace, it appears we're right there at the same time again.  Great minds.


----------



## Passepartout

ace2000 said:


> Wait a minute.  That story is a week old.  I hope you're right though.



I'll believe it when I see it. Color me skeptical. Still.


----------



## Blues

BTW, I've thought more about my comments above.  I don't think they need to program it to violate its depth rating.  Just reprogram it so that it stays at its maximum depth rating as the ocean floor gets deeper.  As long as the ocean floor only gets a few hundred meters deeper, it still should get adequate resolution.  If the ocean gets much deeper than that, they need a new tool.  And there aren't a whole lot of AUVs in the world with the capabilities of Bluefin.  We have one, but it doesn't go deeper than that IIRC.

-Bob


----------



## easyrider

Supposedly, the reason they aren't releasing the information is because they don't have a piece of the wreckage yet. 





> "The reason they haven’t announced it is what the families have gone through in terms of all the false leads, and they are demanding that they see pieces of wreckage," Mearns said.



David Mearns is actually saying he found the wreck.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...e-has-been-found/story-fnizu68q-1226885865464



> ONE of the world’s most experienced wreck hunters believes the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has been found and that recovering its black boxes is inevitable.
> David Mearns, the director of UK-based Bluewater Recoveries said that 40 days after the Boeing 777-200ER went missing, search teams had finally found their target.
> “I think essentially they have found the wreckage site,” Mearns told the ABC’s 7.30 program last night.
> “While the Government hasn’t announced that yet, if somebody asked me: ‘Technically, do they have enough information to say that?’ My answer is unequivocally ‘Yes’.”



Bill


----------



## pedro47

easyrider said:


> Supposedly, the reason they aren't releasing the information is because they don't have a piece of the wreckage yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Mearns is actually saying he found the wreck.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...e-has-been-found/story-fnizu68q-1226885865464
> 
> 
> 
> Bill


Wreckage means parts of a plane. Where are the parts ?


----------



## easyrider

pedro47 said:


> Wreckage means parts of a plane. Where are the parts ?




Beats me, but Im sure they will show up. Dave Mearns is the guy that finds ships and planes at the bottom of the ocean. He holds the record for the deepest under water finds.


Bill


----------



## Passepartout

He doesn't say he's found any wreckage. If you read his words, they say he's found the *area* where the wreckage is. An area about 25k m by 9 km. About 10X the size of Howland Island where it's presumed Amelia Earheart went down. And it's almost 3 miles down. Deeper than any deep water recovery has ever been accomplished. Even below the maximum depth of the autonomous survey machine can go. So far it keeps having anomalies and returning to the surface without accomplishing anything. 

I'm not saying that there is not the most qualified people on the job, nor that the best equipment available isn't working on it. Just that it's far from a done deal.

Now, What do you suppose the authorities might learn on the outside chance that one or both flight recorders could be recovered? I maintain that everyone was dead on that airplane- like on Payne Stewart's. So 2 hours of silence on a voice recorder. And since the plane was on autopilot, the data recorder would just show normal flight inputs until fuel exhaustion.


----------



## "Roger"

Passepartout said:


> ....
> Now, What do you suppose the authorities might learn on the outside chance that one or both flight recorders could be recovered? I maintain that everyone was dead on that airplane- like on Payne Stewart's. So 2 hours of silence on a voice recorder. And since the plane was on autopilot, the data recorder would just show normal flight inputs until fuel exhaustion.


I'm not an expert on flight recorders, but I am constantantly told that if I simply overwrite the data on my hard disc experts will be able to recover the data. That is why I need to physically smash a hard disc when I have no more use for it.  Thus, my bet is that while the last two hours will be what is on the surface of the flight recording, experts will be able to recover earlier recordings from the flight.  If the last two  hours are the sounds of silence that will make it all the easier to go below the surface and recover earlier data.


----------



## SMHarman

Silence on an airplane is not the silence of an sound deadening room. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


----------



## Passepartout

First, they gotta find the wreck. Need I remind you that so far, there is not the smallest shred of hard evidence that they are even looking in the right ocean? Then they need to find a way to get to it. Then they need to figure out how to rip into it and detach the data boxes and get them to the surface. All the while treating the place with the respect of a tomb and as a possible crime scene, AND under pressure of over a ton per sq. inch.

All with the very real likelihood that they will find out nothing- and almost certainly, nothing that might prevent a similar occurrence.


----------



## tompalm

Still nothing found of MH370. No ELT, no oil slick, no black box or aircraft parts floating in the water anywhere.   I still believe there is a missing 777 out there and it is at large sitting on land somewhere.  I hope that I am wrong and we never see it flying again.


----------



## Talent312

Nothing I've read or heard so far negates my original theory:  Alien abduction.
Pings and what-have-you can be intentional distractions. Reference: "X-Files."

To anyone offended, my apology: It is what it is, and sometimes, it isn't.
.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Material on Australian Shore Not from Malaysia Jet -by Rod McGuirk/ The Associated Press/ pulse.me

"CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — Australian officials said Thursday that after examining detailed photographs of unidentified material that washed ashore in the southwestern part of the country they are satisfied it is not a clue in the search for the missing Malaysian plane.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau has advised search coordinators that the material, which washed ashore 10 kilometers (6 miles) east of Augusta in Western Australia, is not from missing Flight 370, according to a statement from the Joint Agency Coordination Centre..."


Another disappointment in a long list of disappointments.


Richard


----------



## Tia

MULTIZ321 said:


> .....Another disappointment in a long list of disappointments.
> 
> 
> Richard




You can definitely say that again!!


----------



## ace2000

MULTIZ321 said:


> Another disappointment in a long list of disappointments.



Yes, it's kinda funny that they keep finding the plane. The only problem is they can't find the plane.


----------



## easyrider

Another guy says he might have found the plane. Its about where it first vanished. idk 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...laysia-flight-searching-satellite-images.html

Bill


----------



## ricoba

Tia said:


> You can definitely say that again!!



OK,

"....Another disappointment in a long list of disappointments"!


----------



## MULTIZ321

Search for Missing Malaysian Jet Will Move Southwest, Officials Say - by Keith Bradsher/ World/ TheGlobeandMail.com

"Australia plans to resume searching for Malaysia Airlines’ missing Flight 370 to the southwest of the area in the Indian Ocean where the seafloor was scanned in detail last month, Australian officials said in interviews over the last five days.
The shift to the southwest reflects analyses of a series of electronic “handshakes” between the missing Boeing 777-200 and a satellite operated by the London-based company Inmarsat in the hours after the plane vanished before dawn March 8 during a flight from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing with 239 people aboard..."


and

Missing MH370: Robo-Sub Hasn't Scoured Potential 'Hot Spot' - by Alexander Smith/ NBCNews.com

"The main ship charged with finding Flight MH370 has still not yet looked in the area of ocean where the jet likely crashed, according to satellite experts
..."

The frustrating search continues.


Richard


----------



## pedro47

pedro47 said:


> I also agree with this theory. There are so many abandoned airstrips in the area.



Back in March 2014, I stated that this air plane landed on an abandon airstrip and my personal opinion have not change.


----------



## Ironwood

pedro47 said:


> Back in March 2014, I stated that this air plane landed on an abandon airstrip and my personal opinion have not change.



Go to Google Earth.  Zoom in on the 'West' island airport in the Cocos island chain just south of Sumatra which is in the supposed southern flight path of flight 370.


----------



## CarolF

Ironwood said:


> Go to Google Earth.  Zoom in on the 'West' island airport in the Cocos island chain just south of Sumatra which is in the supposed southern flight path of flight 370.



Hey, you found us. 

Firstly, we don't steal planes , particularly when they are full of tourists .   We wouldn't do that to our Malaysian neighbours, plus, we are too busy surfing, fishing, diving and downing a few beers in the Cocos Club (pub).

Come on down and bring your long board.  Board a plane in Perth, Western Australia, fly for 5 hours over the Indian Ocean until you’re about halfway to Sri Lanka, then land on a coral atoll and go through immigration.  Australians love visitors and we're open for business.

Christmas (Kiritimati) Island, which is partway between Java and the Cocos Islands, is about 60% national park and has beautiful walking trails.  It is also the location of our very busy refugee and immigration detention centre.  We do welcome tourists there as well.


----------



## ace2000

CarolF said:


> Hey, you found us.
> 
> Firstly, we don't steal planes , particularly when they are full of tourists .



I know you think that you don't steal planes, but would you please keep your eyes open down there?  If you notice anything suspicious, let us know.


----------



## CarolF

ace2000 said:


> I know you think that you don't steal planes, but would you please keep your eyes open down there?  If you notice anything suspicious, let us know.



Hi Ace,  I'm wondering if people think we drink so much we wouldn't notice the odd international passenger jet unexpectedly dropping in.  

We have plenty of surfers and nature loving hikers out on all those other remote islands too.  I'm feeling confident that they would notice and report an influx of 239 well dressed tourists.


----------



## MULTIZ321

CarolF said:


> Hi Ace,  I'm wondering if people think we drink so much we wouldn't notice the odd international passenger jet unexpectedly dropping in.
> 
> We have plenty of surfers and nature loving hikers out on all those other remote islands too.  I'm feeling confident that they would notice and report an influx of 239 well dressed tourists.



Hi Carol,

You have a finely tuned sense of humor.  Love it.

Best regards,

Richard


----------



## CarolF

MULTIZ321 said:


> Hi Carol,
> 
> You have a finely tuned sense of humor.  Love it.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Richard



Cheers Richard, glad I made you smile.  
I'd like to reassure everyone that in the event our drinkers miss any wayward planes there is a watchful community of sober Golfers.  The golf course is down either side of the Airstrip with the unusual hazards of landing and departing aircraft as well as land crab burrows.






 Here is The Cocos Club bar which, by the way, is next to the airport.






 Golfers and plane  (not Malaysian )


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Jet Passengers Likely Suffocated, Australia Says - by Lincoln Feast/ Reuters/ Yahoo!News/ yahoo.com

"The passengers and crew of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 most likely died from suffocation and coasted lifelessly into the ocean on autopilot, a new report released by Australian officials on Thursday said.

In a 55-page report, the Australian Transport Safety Board outlined how investigators had arrived at this conclusion after comparing the conditions on the flight with previous disasters, although it contained no new evidence from within the jetliner..."

Richard


----------



## Passepartout

Back on March 20th (post 154), after hoping against hope that some fragment would be found somewhere on land, I postulated the same scenario. A plane load of corpses flew along until fuel was exhausted.

Jim


----------



## pedro47

Prediction the down under nation will find nothing.


----------



## CarolF

A Dutch firm has been chosen to carry out the underwater search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, Australia has announced.

Fugro Survey will use two vessels to search a swathe of the Indian Ocean.

The ships would use side-scan sonar, multi-beam echo sounders and video cameras to locate and identify the aircraft debris, a statement said.

The search of the 60,000 sq km (23,000 sq mile) area will begin in September and is expected to take up to a year.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28659734


----------



## MULTIZ321

Attempt to Call Missing Jet May Alter Search Area - by Rod McGuirk/ Associated Press/ apnewsarchive.com

"Shortly after the missing Malaysian airliner disappeared from radar, airline officials on the ground tried repeatedly to call the crew of the Boeing 777 using a satellite phone that might have left clues to the jet's flight path..."


Richard


----------



## pedro47

pedro47 said:


> Prediction the down under nation will find nothing.



As of this date have anyone found this plane ?


----------



## Patri

They were going to tell you first when it happens.


----------



## easyrider

*Another 11 airliners missing.*

It looks like when Tripoli recently went under the Islamist control at least 11 jet airliners went missing. It is assumed these airplanes will be used for terrorist type activities. 

http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...ise-fears-of-suicide-airliner-attacks-on-911/



> Intelligence reports of the stolen jetliners were distributed within the U.S. government over the past two weeks and included a warning that one or more of the aircraft could be used in an attack later this month on the date marking the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks against New York and Washington, said U.S. officials familiar with the reports.
> 
> “There are a number of commercial airliners in Libya that are missing,” said one official. “We found out on September 11 what can happen with hijacked planes.”
> 
> The official said the aircraft are a serious counterterrorism concern because reports of terrorist control over the Libyan airliners come three weeks before the 13th anniversary of 9/11 attacks and the second anniversary of the Libyan terrorist attack on the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi.




Bill


----------



## Clemson Fan

easyrider said:


> It looks like when Tripoli recently went under the Islamist control at least 11 jet airliners went missing. It is assumed these airplanes will be used for terrorist type activities.
> 
> http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...ise-fears-of-suicide-airliner-attacks-on-911/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill



Just another crazy internet blog.


----------



## easyrider

Clemson Fan said:


> Just another crazy internet blog.



Here is an article from the daily mail. I guess the one thing learned from the Malaysian incident is that all a pilot needs to do is turn off the transponder to become somewhat invisible. Also there is no way that these jets could pose a real threat to the USA as they would be destroyed before reaching our coastlines, imo. Maybe a run on Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel or Syria ? 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-carry-terrorist-attack-9-11-anniversary.html



> Mekkaoui said there is 'credible intelligence' that the Masked Men Brigade 'is plotting to use the planes in attacks on the Maghreb state' on the 9/11 anniversary.
> Sebastian Gorka, a counterterrorism expert, told the Free-Beacon that the planes could be used in two ways to strike North Africa or even as far as the oil fields of Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 'The first would be how commercial airliners were used on Sept 11, 2001, literally turning an innocent mode of mass transit into a super-high precision guided missile of immense potency,' Gorka, the Maj Gen Charles Horner chair at the Marine Corps University, said.
> 
> 'The second tactic could be to use the airframe with its civilian markings as a tool of deception to insert a full payload of armed terrorists into a locale that otherwise is always open to commercial carriers,' he added.





Bill


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Sonar Reveals Secrets of Sea Floor - by Paul Rodgers/ Tech/ Forbes.com

"The hunt for missing Malaysian plane MH370 has revealed unsuspected secrets about the Indian Ocean, including underwater volcanoes and trenches dating back up to 100 million years.

High-resolution sonar has found no clear signs of the plane’s wreckage, but instead discovered a wealth of unexpected geological features between Australia and Antarctica, The Sunday Times reported..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

5 Missing Flights That Eerily Echo MH370 - by Bruce Dorminey/ Tech/ Forbes.com

"Nearly seven months after its disappearance, officially, what happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (MH370) remains almost as much of a mystery as in the wee hours of March 8th.

Theories about the Boeing 777-200’s loss on a routine flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing continue to proliferate.  Yet it may still go down as one of commercial aviation’s worst unsolved tragedies.

Over the decades, however, there have been more than a few aircraft disappearances that eerily echo that of MH370 ; including:.."


Richard


----------



## Chrispee

easyrider said:


> I guess the one thing learned from the Malaysian incident is that all a pilot needs to do is turn off the transponder to become somewhat invisible.



Turning off the transponder does not make an airplane invisible to radar.


----------



## easyrider

Chrispee said:


> Turning off the transponder does not make an airplane invisible to radar.



It does in regards to commercial radar like the air traffic control and other airplanes.


----------



## Chrispee

easyrider said:


> It does in regards to commercial radar like the air traffic control and other airplanes.



ATC and military radar still picks you up, you just aren't transmitting as much info (precise altitude, ground speed, and squawk code) but you show up as a primary blip on radar.  If anything, turning off your transponder while flying IFR would arouse more suspicion as you would be the only unidentified plane on a controller's screen.  In this instance it would be my guess that turning off the transponder would have no bearing on what happened to MH370 given that they were in the middle of nowhere, but had they tried to fly into controlled airspace with their transponder off they would have experienced a military jet intervention pretty darn fast.


----------



## PrairieGirl

Chrispee said:


> ATC and military radar still picks you up, you just aren't transmitting as much info (precise altitude, ground speed, and squawk code) but you show up as a primary blip on radar.  If anything, turning off your transponder while flying IFR would arouse more suspicion as you would be the only unidentified plane on a controller's screen.  In this instance it would be my guess that turning off the transponder would have no bearing on what happened to MH370 given that they were in the middle of nowhere, but had they tried to fly into controlled airspace with their transponder off they would have experienced a military jet intervention pretty darn fast.



Correct - when we fly with flight following we often get "traffic at X o'clock, type and altitude unknown" for those folks that aren't using a transponder code.


----------



## MULTIZ321

After Mapping Ocean Floor, Crews Renew Search for Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 - by Dante D'Orazio/ US & World/ TheVerge.com

"Six months ago, Malaysia Airlines flight 370 disappeared with 239 passengers on board after departing from Kuala Lumpur. After an initial frantic search to find the Boeing 777's black boxes before their batteries petered out, rescue crews called off efforts and began a major undertaking to map the seafloor. Now, four months later, those maps are complete, and the search is beginning anew this month as three ships plan to scour the search area for debris by dragging a sensor device just 330 feet (100 meters) above the seabed at a speed of seven miles per hour, according to the Associated Press..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Australia Resumes Search for Malasia Airlines Flight 370 - by Scott Neuman/ International/ The Two-Way/ npr.org


This link has essentially the same information as the link I provided in my post #415 in this thread.  I included it for the pic of the Fugro Discovery Search Vessel





A photo made available on Monday of the Fugro Discovery search vessel moored at Fremantle Port in Perth, Australia. The vessel is one of three that will resume the search for possible wreckage from MH370. 
Angie Raphael/EPA/Landov 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Australia Says Missing Plane Hunt Will Take Months - from Associated Press/ Yahoo!News/ yahoo.com

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — "The hunt for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in a remote patch of the Indian Ocean is progressing well but will likely take many months because of the huge area involved, an Australian official said Friday.

Peter Foley, an Australian search coordinator, said there is optimism with two ships using high-tech sonar devices to search for the Boeing 777, which disappeared in March while flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people on board..."





This map provided Wednesday, Oct. 22, 2014, by The Australian Transport Safety Bureau shows the area surveyed so far which is marked in yellow in the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the southern Indian Ocean. The hunt for the passenger plane in a remote patch of the Indian Ocean is progressing well but will likely take many months because of the huge area involved, an Australian official said Friday, Oct. 24. Peter Foley, an Australian search coordinator, said there is optimism with two ships using high-tech sonar devices to search for the Boeing 777, which disappeared in March while flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people on board. (AP Photo/The Australian Transport Safety Bureau, File) 



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Nine Months Later, No Trace of Missing Jet - by NBCNews.com

"NBC's Tom Costello reports on the long, and technically challenging search for missing Malaysian flight MH370, which disappeared with 239 people on board...
"


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 Passengers Likely Suffocated, Australia Says - by Lincoln Feast/ Reuters/ HuffPost Live/ The World Post/ Huffington Post and Berggruen Institute on Governance/ huffingtonpost.com

"The passengers and crew of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 most likely died from suffocation and coasted lifelessly into the ocean on autopilot, a new report released by Australian officials on Thursday said.

In a 55-page report, the Australian Transport Safety Board outlined how investigators had arrived at this conclusion after comparing the conditions on the flight with previous disasters, although it contained no new evidence from within the jetliner.

The report narrowed down the possible final resting place from thousands of possible routes, while noting the absence of communications and the steady flight path and a number of other key abnormalities in the course of the ill-fated flight.

"Given these observations, the final stages of the unresponsive crew/hypoxia event type appeared to best fit the available evidence for the final period of MH370's flight when it was heading in a generally southerly direction," the ATSB report said.

All of that suggested that the plane most likely crashed farther south into the Indian Ocean than previously thought, Australian officials also said, leading them to announce a shift farther south within the prior search area..."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Australia to Test New Method of Tracking Planes in Wake of MH370 Disappearance - Air Transport/ TheGuardian.com

"Australia is joining Indonesia and Malaysia in trialling a new method for tracking aircraft over remote oceanic areas.

Airservices Australia, along with its Malaysian and Indonesian counterparts, will test the new method that tracks aircraft every 15 minutes compared with 30 to 40 minutes previously.

It will use existing technology fitted to 90% of long-haul aircraft.

The new measures come after the disappearance of Malaysian airline MH370 a year ago..."

And some additional information on the same story:

Better Plane Tracking Trialed After Malaysia Plane Mystery - by Kristen Gelineau/ Associated Press/ apnewsarchive.com

and in a different article with the same title by Kristen Gelineau she writes:

"There is no requirement for real-time tracking of commercial aircraft and ever since Flight 370 disappeared, air safety regulators and airlines have been trying to agree on how extensively planes should be tracked. The Boeing 777 veered sharply off-course and vanished from radar shortly into its flight on March 8.

An international team of experts who analyzed a series of hourly transmissions between the plane and a satellite later determined that the plane traveled for another seven hours before crashing somewhere within a remote 60,000 square kilometer (23,000 square mile) patch of the Indian Ocean. An extensive, monthslong search of that area is still underway, but nothing has yet been found.

Houston warned that new method being trialed would not necessarily have allowed air traffic controllers to monitor Flight 370 — whose transponder and other tracking equipment shut down during the flight — to the point where it crashed.

"I think we've got to be very, very careful because you can turn this system off," he said. "What would have happened while the system is operating, we'd know exactly where the aircraft was. If somebody had turned the system off, we're in the same set of circumstances as we've experienced on the latter part of the flight of MH370."..."


Better Plane Tracking Trialed After Malaysia Plane Mystery - by Kristen Gelineau/ Associated Press/ pulse.me







Richard


----------



## HatTrick

*No Plane, Many Discoveries in Yearlong Search for Flight 370*

_The yearlong search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 has turned up no sign of the plane, but that doesn't mean it's been unproductive. It has yielded lessons and discoveries that could benefit millions, including coastal Australians, air and sea travelers and scientists trying to understand ancient changes to the earth's crust._

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/plane-discoveries-yearlong-search-flight-370-29305258


----------



## Passepartout

*Australia says they may call off the search for MH370*

Australian officials say they cannot go on searching indefinitely and that they may call off the search within weeks...... http://news.yahoo.com/australia-says-hunt-missing-mh370-jet-may-called-210759268--finance.html


----------



## MULTIZ321

One Year Later, the Mystery of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is Still Just That - by Nina Porzucki/ Science, Tech & Environment/ Public Radio International/ pri.org

"One year ago today, Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 disappeared over the Indian Ocean. The plane travelling from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing has still never been found, but the search — even for any bits of its wreckage — is still ongoing..."





The shadow of a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3 Orion maritime search aircraft can be seen on low-level clouds as it flies over the southern Indian Ocean looking for missing Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 on March 31, 2014.
Credit:Rob Griffith/Reuters


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 One Year Later: Why Can't We Find the Plane? - by Joel Hruska/ Extreme/ extremetech.com

"This Sunday marks the one-year anniversary of the MH370 disappearance. Despite tens of millions of dollars spent and the concerted search efforts of multiple countries, the fate of the Boeing 777-200ER remains unknown. Why have we been unable to find the craft — and why have so many conspiracy theories risen to fill the void?

The state of the search

In the immediate wake of the accident, multiple nations sent naval vessels to assist in the search efforts, including Australia, the People’s Republic of China, Malaysia, the UK, and the United States. After the initial fervor had died away, Australia and Malaysia assumed joint responsibility for the continuing efforts. Those efforts have not ceased; multiple vessels remain on-location, including the MV Fugro Supporter and MV Fugro Equator, two Dutch ships that joined the search in late January..."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search Zone Will Have Been Covered by End of May, Says Australia - by Shalailah Medhora/ World/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ TheGuardian.com

"The search in the priority zone where Malaysia Airlines flight 370 is thought to have gone down exactly one year ago is likely to be completed by the end of May, the Australian government has said.

Sunday marks a grim milestone of one year since the plane went missing, along with all of the 239 crew and passengers aboard.

“Assuming no significant delays with vessels, equipment or from the weather, the current underwater search area should be largely completed by the end of May,” the deputy prime minister, Warren Truss, said in a statement.

“Currently four vessels are involved in the underwater search. These vessels employ a range of equipment including side scan sonar, multi-beam echo sounders and video cameras to locate and identify aircraft debris in waters up to 6km deep.” ..."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 One Year On: Everything You Need to Know - By Tom Phillips, Méabh Ritchie and Jennifer Rigby/ News/ Aviation/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"Here we round up some of the theories surrounding the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370..."





Fariq Abdul Hamid, left, and Zaharie Ahmad Shah were the pilots on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 Photo: AP


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Report: Underwater Locator Beacon Battery Had Expired - by the Associated Press/ Associated Press writers Rod McGuirk in Canberra, Australia, and Christopher Bodeen in Beijing contributed to this report/ International New York Times/ The New York Times.com

"The first comprehensive report into the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 revealed Sunday that the battery of the locator beacon for the plane's data recorder had expired more than a year before the jet vanished on March 8, 2014.

The report came as Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said the hunt for the plane would not end even if the scouring of the current search area off Australia's west coast comes up empty.

Apart from the anomaly of the expired battery, the detailed report devoted pages after pages describing the complete normality of the flight, which disappeared while heading from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, setting off aviation's biggest mystery...."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Expired Beacon Battery on MH370 Could Be Key for Compensation - Lawyers - by Jane Wardell/ Reuters/ uk.news.yahoo.com

 SYDNEY (Reuters) - "The disclosure that an underwater locator beacon battery in the flight data recorder of MH370 had expired could be key in legal action against Malaysia Airlines over the fruitless search for the jetliner, lawyers for families of the passengers said on Monday.

U.S. law firm Kreindler & Kreindler LP, which is representing around 20 families, said the expired battery was "potentially very significant" in determining compensation if it had hurt the search for the missing plane.

A 584-page interim report into the disappearance of the Boeing 777-200ER said the beacon battery for the flight data recorder had expired in December 2012 and was not replaced. The beacon is designed to send a signal if a crash occurs in water..."





Reuters/Reuters - Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak says special prayers for the victims of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 at the National Mosque in Kuala Lumpur January 30, 2015. REUTERS/Olivia Harris


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Search for Missing Malaysia Plane Finds Shipwreck - by Kristen Gelineau, Associated Press/ World/ usnews.com

"Search for missing Malaysia plane yields old uncharted shipwreck in remote Indian Ocean.

SYDNEY (AP) — Search crews hunting for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the desolate ocean waters off western Australia have discovered an old shipwreck, officials said Wednesday.

The unexpected finding came when sonar equipment on board a search vessel scouring the Indian Ocean for the missing jetliner detected a cluster of objects nearly 4 kilometers (2.5 miles) below the surface, according to a statement from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, which is heading up the hunt.

 Although officials suspected the objects were probably not from the Boeing 777, which vanished on March 8, 2014, they decided to take a closer look just in case. A second ship sent down an autonomous underwater vehicle — essentially, an unmanned sub — which revealed a large number of small objects and several larger items, the biggest 6 meters (20 feet) long.

 The debris field appeared to be man-made but wasn't typical of an aircraft. Still, crews sent down a camera to be sure.

Analysis of the photos revealed this week that the debris came from a previously uncharted shipwreck. Marine archaeologists are now examining the photos, which include an image of an anchor and what appear to be lumps of coal, to see whether they can identify the ship. It was not immediately clear when the sonar first spotted the wreckage..."





In this photo provided on Wednesday by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, debris from a shipwreck lays on the Indian Ocean floor, nearly 4 kilometers (2.5 miles) below the surface, off the west coast of Australia. Search crews hunting for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the desolate waters off western Australia have discovered the wreck was of a cargo ship built in the mid-to-late 19th century.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: possible search breakthrough

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...ible-breakthrough-debris-found-reunion-island

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

What Can tht Indian Ocean Plane Wreckage Tell Us


http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-30/what-can-indian-ocean-plane-wreckage-tell-us.




Richard.


----------



## MuranoJo

Link didn't work for me, Richard.  Thx.


----------



## Helaine

This is the full link:
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-30/what-can-indian-ocean-plane-wreckage-tell-us


----------



## davidvel

Did anyone tell Pedro they found (part of)  the plane,  and is not intact?


----------



## MULTIZ321

Helaine said:


> This is the full link:
> http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-30/what-can-indian-ocean-plane-wreckage-tell-us



Thanks Helaine for correcting the link.

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Why the Trail of Clues to Flight 370 Now Leads to France


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...now-leads-through-france?cmpid=pulse.linkedin


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Flaperon Arrives in France as Search for Truth Switches to Defense Lab - by Angelique Chrisafis in Paris, Oliver Holmes in Bangkok and Gillian Parker in Réunion/ World/ theguardian.com

"The debris washed up on Réunion will be driven from Paris to the defence laboratory in Toulouse for confirmation that it belonged to the Boeing 777 missing since March 2014..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Possible Tie to Mystery of Flight 370 Puts Tiny Reunion in World's Spotlight - by Marc Santora/ Africa/ St.-Denis Journal/ International New York Times/ The New York Times/ nytimes.com

ST.-DENIS, Réunion —" Ever since Johnny Begue and his friend stumbled on a barnacle-encrusted airplane wing flap last week — one that appears to be from the same kind of plane as Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which disappeared without a trace more than a year ago —just about every piece of flotsam kicked up along the shores of this island in the Indian Ocean has attracted scrutiny..."





 Johnny Begue, one of the people who found a plane's wing flap on a Réunion shore last week, posed on Thursday with the remains of a suitcase that turned up in the same area. Credit Linfo.re/Antenne Réunion, via Agence France-Presse — Getty Images 


Richard


----------



## John Cummings

I just read where the debris found was not from flt. 370.


----------



## MULTIZ321

John Cummings said:


> I just read where the debris found was not from flt. 370.



To Clarify, I think what you read was about other debris found on Reunion Island other than the Aleron (sp?) wing part which is still going through investigation.

Official: Debris Found Not Part of Flight 370 - by John Bacon and Jane Onyanga-Omara, USA Today/ News/ usatoday.com

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: 'Plane Seat' Found Washed Up On Reunion Island 3 Months Ago - by Harriet Alexander in Saint Andre, Reunion/ News/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"Nicolas Ferrier says he came across the blue plane seat three months ago, but thought nothing of it at the time.

 Nicolas Ferrier barely gave the blue seat a second glance. As he carried out his daily patrol of the wild shores of Reunion, picking up debris from the jet black sands and giant boulders, it seemed to him like just another piece of rubbish – a bus seat, perhaps, or a hang glider’s chair.

“It wasn’t until Wednesday that it hit me what it could have been,” said Mr Ferrier, climbing off his BMX to speak to The Telegraph in the shade of a screwpine tree, overlooking the pounding surf. “It was probably part of that plane.”

Mr Ferrier spotted the seat in early May. And on Saturday he told his story for the first time – up until now, no one but his wife has known about the find..."





Nicolas Ferrier, Beach cleaner at Saint Andre, Reunion 


Richard


----------



## davidvel

John Cummings said:


> I just read where the debris found was not from flt. 370.


The flaperon (flap/aileron) is from a 777 as identified by part numbers stenciled inside, and expect it could be from no other than MH370. This is not a sticker on the plane, but an integral part of the wing that was torn off.


----------



## John Cummings

MULTIZ321 said:


> To Clarify, I think what you read was about other debris found on Reunion Island other than the Aleron (sp?) wing part which is still going through investigation.
> 
> Official: Debris Found Not Part of Flight 370 - by John Bacon and Jane Onyanga-Omara, USA Today/ News/ usatoday.com
> 
> Richard



I am sure that you are right. I just read the title and did not open the link as it really doesn't interest me very much.


----------



## Ty1on

John Cummings said:


> I am sure that you are right. I just read the title and did not open the link as it really doesn't interest me very much.



There is only one 777 in the world that could be missing an aeleron right now, so I really think the forensics is just a formality.


----------



## Clemson Fan

davidvel said:


> Did anyone tell Pedro they found (part of)  the plane,  and is not intact?



Or Phydeaux

BTW, the theory by Goodfellow that started this whole thread IMO is still the most plausible explanation of what might of hapenned.  Did he get every detail right, of course not, but I think he got the gist of what hapenned right.  Basically, something hapenned on the plane causing a loss of pressure and oxygen and everybody died on it many hours before it finally ran out of fuel and fell into the ocean.  There was probably no nepharious or sinister event or pilot suicide or anything like that.


----------



## ace2000

Clemson Fan said:


> Or Phydeaux
> 
> BTW, the theory by Goodfellow that started this whole thread IMO is still the most plausible explanation of what might of hapenned.  Did he get every detail right, of course not, but I think he got the gist of what hapenned right.  Basically, something hapenned on the plane causing a loss of pressure and oxygen and everybody died on it many hours before it finally ran out of fuel and fell into the ocean.  There was probably no nepharious or sinister event or pilot suicide or anything like that.



How is pilot suicide, or an attempted pilot hijacking gone bad ruled out?  That's still my theory.  Hopefully the latest developments will help recover the box and we'll know for sure.


----------



## Maple_Leaf

*I'm not sure about that conclusion just yet...*



Clemson Fan said:


> There was probably no nepharious or sinister event or pilot suicide or anything like that.



According to a very reliable Australian aviation reporter...

The inexplicable actions and utterances of the authorities and airline in the period immediately after the disappearance will be the subject of more and perhaps startling disclosures.


----------



## Clemson Fan

Maple_Leaf said:


> According to a very reliable Australian aviation reporter...
> 
> The inexplicable actions and utterances of the authorities and airline in the period immediately after the disappearance will be the subject of more and perhaps startling disclosures.



This link just bought me to a pure speculative article about potential other debris found on Reunion Island.

BTW, I was shocked to learn that this island which I previously never heard of before has a population of 850k.  That's nearly the population of Oahu.


----------



## Clemson Fan

ace2000 said:


> How is pilot suicide, or an attempted pilot hijacking gone bad ruled out?  That's still my theory.  Hopefully the latest developments will help recover the box and we'll know for sure.



I suppose it's still possible.  I don't buy it, but sure it's still possible.  Notice I used the word "probably".

I think what's fairly obvious is that probably EVERYBODY on that plane was dead as it flew silently for hours to the point of fuel exhaustion somewhere in the Indian Ocean.  I don't buy an alive pilot bent on suicide flying the plane for hours after he already killed everybody on board.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Investigators to Meet in France Ahead of Wing Analysis by AFP/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"French and Malaysian officials will meet as authorities confirm metallic debris found by locals did not come from an aircraft..."





Betty (red cap) who saw the piece of metal reported to be from the missing Malaysian Airline plane MH370 showing media where it was spotted Photo: Paul Grover/The Telegraph


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Clemson Fan said:


> Or Phydeaux
> 
> BTW, the theory by Goodfellow that started this whole thread IMO is still the most plausible explanation of what might of hapenned.  Did he get every detail right, of course not, but I think he got the gist of what hapenned right.  Basically, something hapenned on the plane causing a loss of pressure and oxygen and everybody died on it many hours before it finally ran out of fuel and fell into the ocean.  There was probably no nepharious or sinister event or pilot suicide or anything like that.



Hi Clemson Fan,

How does Goodfellow's theory account for the two left turns to take MH370 away from China and into the southern Indian Ocean?  Also how does the theory account for the transponders being turned off?

I don't think that a nepharious or sinister event(s) or pilot suicide can be ruled out at this time.


Richard


----------



## Clemson Fan

MULTIZ321 said:


> Hi Clemson Fan,
> 
> How does Goodfellow's theory account for the two left turns to take MH370 away from China and into the southern Indian Ocean?  Also how does the theory account for the transponders being turned off?
> 
> I don't think that a nepharious or sinister event(s) or pilot suicide can be ruled out at this time.
> 
> 
> Richard



I don't think Goodfellow obviously got every detail correct.  I don't know what to make of the 2 left turns.  I'm wondering if they may be some red herrings or some bad reporting which we've seen plenty of (see below) with this mystery.

I think the transponder going silent falls in line pretty well with the electrical fire theory.  

Saying the transponder was "turned off" implies that it was done intentionally.  There has been some horrible journalism done on this story by some pretty well respected journalists and of course there's been the typical internet wild and crazy speculation in the blogosphere.  There's no evidence that the transponder was intentionally "turned off" and all we know is that it did go offline/silent.  To report that it was "turned off" (which many prominent journalists did report) connotates that it was an intentional act which we have no evidence of.

If it was hijacked, how come no terrorist organization has claimed responsibility?  Previously we were told the answer to that question was because they had it in some hanger hidden away on some island somewhere to be used as a future bomb/missile ala 9/11.  Well I think we're pretty sure now the plane isn't in some hanger getting prepared for some mastermind terrorist plot.  So back to the original question, how come no terrorist organization has claimed responsibility for taking down a passenger jet killing however many 100's of people?

Again, I think what's looking like to be more and more the case that it flew silently for hours and hours out into the middle of nowhere really makes it more and more unlikely it was a hijacking or pilot suicide.  You can make the argument that it was a botched hijacking or botched pilot suicide which caused everybody on the plane to die and the plane just righted itself and flew until it ran out of fuel, but I'm not really buying that.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Clemson Fan said:


> I don't think Goodfellow obviously got every detail correct.  I don't know what to make of the 2 left turns.  I'm wondering if they may be some red herrings or some bad reporting which we've seen plenty of (see below) with this mystery.
> 
> I think the transponder going silent falls in line pretty well with the electrical fire theory.
> 
> Saying the transponder was "turned off" implies that it was done intentionally.  There has been some horrible journalism done on this story by some pretty well respected journalists and of course there's been the typical internet wild and crazy speculation in the blogosphere.  There's no evidence that the transponder was intentionally "turned off" and all we know is that it did go offline/silent.  To report that it was "turned off" (which many prominent journalists did report) connotates that it was an intentional act which we have no evidence of.
> 
> If it was hijacked, how come no terrorist organization has claimed responsibility?  Previously we were told the answer to that question was because they had it in some hanger hidden away on some island somewhere to be used as a future bomb/missile ala 9/11.  Well I think we're pretty sure now the plane isn't in some hanger getting prepared for some mastermind terrorist plot.  So back to the original question, how come no terrorist organization has claimed responsibility for taking down a passenger jet killing however many 100's of people?
> 
> Again, I think what's looking like to be more and more the case that it flew silently for hours and hours out into the middle of nowhere really makes it more and more unlikely it was a hijacking or pilot suicide.  You can make the argument that it was a botched hijacking or botched pilot suicide which caused everybody on the plane to die and the plane just righted itself and flew until it ran out of fuel, but I'm not really buying that.



I can't envision any scenario that would make the two Left turns Red Herrings or bad reporting.

Point taken that the transponders did go offline/silent with no evidence that it was an intentional act. On the other hand, there's no evidence to the contrary either. If one subscribes to the electrical fire theory as causation for the transponders to go silent - then alarms should have been triggered in the cockpit and a radio call transmitted from the captain or co-pilot alerting ground control of the problem(s). No such call has been reported. 

Hopefully, we'll get an announcement on Wednesday saying the wing-piece is from MH370 and the many families that lost loved ones will have some degree of closure.


Richard


----------



## davidvel

Not only did the transponder go off, but the ACARS (satellite communications system) was disabled. It was not incapacitated by lack of electricity, etc, and continued to respond to "pings" from a satellite that, at a minimum, tells investigators the plane was still up and running as was ACARS equipment (this went on for hours until about the time the plane would have run out of fuel, and in fact a new logon request at that time which would have occurred when backup power switched on after fuel starvation). Whoever switched off ACARS and transponder didn't account for this continued communication which is how they tracked (roughly) the flight to the Southern Indian Ocean.  

People continue to believe in an accident scenario although no one can explain how the aircraft made a u-turn, a right turn and presumed left turn based on satellite data (and all experts confirm it could not have without pilot intervention), after shutting down its transponder and ACARS.


----------



## Clemson Fan

MULTIZ321 said:


> Point taken that the transponders did go offline/silent with no evidence that it was an intentional act. On the other hand, there's no evidence to the contrary either. If one subscribes to the electrical fire theory as causation for the transponders to go silent - then alarms should have been triggered in the cockpit and a radio call transmitted from the captain or co-pilot alerting ground control of the problem(s). No such call has been reported.



Could the radio not have been taken out by the same "event" that caused the transponder to go silent?  Even if it wasn't, if there was a major catastrophic event going on my first reaction would be to work the problem an alerting ground control would be lower on the list.  I think they probably lost consciousness before getting around to make a call - assuming that the radio was even still operational.

I really do hope they eventually find the plane and the orange boxes.  I'd love to find out what went wrong and what happened.


----------



## Clemson Fan

davidvel said:


> Not only did the transponder go off, but the ACARS (satellite communications system) was disabled. It was not incapacitated by lack of electricity, etc, and continued to respond to "pings" from a satellite that, at a minimum, tells investigators the plane was still up and running as was ACARS equipment (this went on for hours until about the time the plane would have run out of fuel, and in fact a new logon request at that time which would have occurred when backup power switched on after fuel starvation). Whoever switched off ACARS and transponder didn't account for this continued communication which is how they tracked (roughly) the flight to the Southern Indian Ocean.
> 
> People continue to believe in an accident scenario although no one can explain how the aircraft made a u-turn, a right turn and presumed left turn based on satellite data (and all experts confirm it could not have without pilot intervention), after shutting down its transponder and ACARS.



Your post is very jumbled and contradictory.  ACARS did not go offline and was not "disabled".  My understanding is that ACARS is a completely separate system that's part of the engine and isn't connected to the transponder and other major electrical systems.  The only thing the ACARS pings told investigators was that the engines were still running and they used satellite triangulation to figure out the position of the plane.  ACARS was never switched off and there's no evidence that somebody intentionally switched the transponder off.  The only thing we know is that the transponder went silent - we don't know why.


----------



## DaveNV

Clemson Fan said:


> BTW, I was shocked to learn that this island which I previously never heard of before has a population of 850k.  That's nearly the population of Oahu.




I've been to Mauritius, which is part of the same island chain as Reunion. It's beautiful country, and reminds me very much of Hawaii - without the Hawaiians. A British colony in the Indian Ocean not far from Madagascar. Lovely people, beautiful scenery, and a frequent vacation spot for Brits who want a semi-tropical vacation without flying all the way to the Caribbean or Hawaii.

If you've never heard of Reunion, then you probably haven't ever heard of Mauritius, either.  But you have:  Mauritius is where the Dodo bird lived.  Seriously.  They even have pictures of it on their money.  

Dave


----------



## Clemson Fan

BMWguynw said:


> If you've never heard of Reunion, then you probably haven't ever heard of Mauritius, either.  But you have:  Mauritius is where the Dodo bird lived.  Seriously.  They even have pictures of it on their money.



Nope, never heard of that island as well.  It doesn't surprise me that I don't know all the worlds geography, but the population of 850k really surprised me.

I think I do know all the inhabited islands in the Pacific and I've been to quite a few including Guam, Saipan and Tinian.


----------



## MULTIZ321

BMWguynw said:


> ...If you've never heard of Reunion, then you probably haven't ever heard of Mauritius, either.  But you have:  Mauritius is where the Dodo bird lived.  Seriously.  They even have pictures of it on their money.
> 
> Dave










Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Hunt for MH370: Australia Won't Extend Search Effort Without New Clues - by Rob Taylor/ World/ The Wall Street Journal/ wsj.com

"Government rules out open-ended search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane...
"





Authorities measure the wing part that washed up on Réunion Island. Maxppp/Zuma Press

Richard


----------



## DaveNV

MULTIZ321 said:


> Richard



Thanks, Richard!

Dave


----------



## MULTIZ321

World Hopes for First Clues to MH370 Mystery - Marianne Barriaux, AFP/ BusinessInsider.com

Paris (AFP) - "Technical experts in France were to begin examining Wednesday whether a washed-up plane part belonged to missing flight MH370, raising hopes that some light may finally be shed on one of aviation's darkest mysteries.

The Boeing 777 disappeared on March 8 last year when it inexplicably veered course en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people on board, and a colossal multinational hunt for the aircraft proved fruitless.

But last week's discovery of a two-metre-long wing part called a flaperon on the French Indian Ocean island of La Reunion raised fresh hopes for relatives desperate for answers.

The piece has been taken the southwestern French city of Toulouse, where it will undergo the high-profile examination.

The case containing the wing part will be opened early afternoon Wednesday, said a French source close to the case, in the presence of French and Malaysian experts, Boeing employees and representatives from China -- the country that lost the most passengers.

It is as yet unclear whether their conclusions will be announced on the same day or later, added the source, who wished to remain anonymous..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Answer on Whether Boeing Part is From MH370 Could Come This Week - by Jethro Mullen/ World/ cnn.com


(CNN)—A definitive answer on whether a barnacle-encrusted plane part that washed up on an Indian Ocean island is part of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 could come this week.

Expert analysis of the Boeing 777 wing component, which was found last week on the French island of Reunion, is due to begin Wednesday at a specialized laboratory in southwestern France.

If the part, known as a flaperon, is confirmed to be from Flight 370, it would be the first piece of physical evidence recovered from the Malaysian jetliner since it disappeared nearly 17 months ago with 239 people on board.

It's not yet clear when the results of the forensic examination will be announced. The deputy prime minister of Australia, the country leading the underwater search for the remains of MH370, said Wednesday that he believed an answer could come within days. 

Richard


----------



## SMHarman

How many flaperon fall off Boeing in flight. Or get swapped out in service?


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysian Leader: Debris Found on Island is From Flight 370 - by Eileen Ng/ International/ abcnews.go.com

"A piece of a wing found washed up on Reunion Island last week is from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 that vanished last year, Malaysia's prime minister announced early Thursday, saying he hoped the news would end the "unspeakable" uncertainty of the passengers' families..."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia and France Frustrate MH370 Relatives With Mixed Messages - by Ian Mader/ World/ Aviation/ time.com

(BEIJING) —"Families aching for closure after their relatives disappeared aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 last year vented their deep frustration Thursday at conflicting signals from Malaysia and France over whether the finding of a plane part had been confirmed.

“Why the hell do you have one confirm and one not?” asked Christchurch, New Zealand, resident Sara Weeks, whose brother Paul Weeks was aboard the flight that disappeared March 8, 2014 with 239 people aboard while en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

“Why not wait and get everybody on the same page so the families don’t need to go through this turmoil?” she said..."

Richard


----------



## SmithOp

BMWguynw said:


> I've been to Mauritius, which is part of the same island chain as Reunion. It's beautiful country, and reminds me very much of Hawaii - without the Hawaiians. A British colony in the Indian Ocean not far from Madagascar. Lovely people, beautiful scenery, and a frequent vacation spot for Brits who want a semi-tropical vacation without flying all the way to the Caribbean or Hawaii.
> 
> Dave




Dave, this comment comes across a little derogatory towards Hawaiians, care to explain?  I've never had a problem with locals in Hawaii, but I have experienced rude, boorish tourists.

Did the colonial Brits eradicate all the indigenous people of Mauritius?


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk


----------



## csxjohn

SmithOp said:


> Dave, this comment comes across a little derogatory towards Hawaiians, care to explain?  I've never had a problem with locals in Hawaii, but I have experienced rude, boorish tourists.
> 
> Did the colonial Brits eradicate all the indigenous people of Mauritius?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk



It will be interesting to see what Dave says but I did not read it that way at all.

I read it to mean it looks just like Hawaii without Hawaiian people there, not implying anything good or bad about those people, just that they are not on this island.


----------



## davidvel

csxjohn said:


> It will be interesting to see what Dave says but I did not read it that way at all.
> 
> I read it to mean it looks just like Hawaii without Hawaiian people there, not implying anything good or bad about those people, just that they are not on this island.



That's how I  read it as well.


----------



## Beefnot

davidvel said:


> That's how I read it as well.


 

Same here.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Wreckage From Malaysian Jet Validates Signals from Redmond-Built Black Box - by Steve Wilhelm/ Staff Writer, Puget Sound Business Journal/ Industry News/ Seattle/ bizjournals.com

"New evidence suggests that an acoustic beacon on a Redmond-built flight data recorder may have come close to locating Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the weeks after its disappearance last year.

The Everett-built Boeing (NYSE: BA) 777 300ER vanished after taking off March 8, 2014 from Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur on a flight to Beijing.

Last week's discovery of a flight control surface called a flaperon, which had washed up on the island of Reunion in the western Indian Ocean, confirms that the plane did crash and sink in that ocean — which was what the beacon had indicated..."




Richard


----------



## John Cummings

SmithOp said:


> ...I've never had a problem with locals in Hawaii, but I have experienced rude, boorish tourists.



I pretty well agree though I am not very impressed with the folks on the Big Island. In fact we don't like the Big Island at all. However the people on Oahu are very friendly and nice.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Barnacles Could Help Unlock the Mystery of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370  - by Chiquita Paschal/ Science, Tech, and Environment/ Public Radio International/ pri.org

"Investigators searching for clues about what caused the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 to go down, and where, may have a surprising helper at their disposal: barnacles, those small crustaceans that attach themselves to things that dwell in the sea like whales or, well, airplane wreckage..."





Credit:  Matt/CC BY-NC-ND 2.0


Richard


----------



## PigsDad

John Cummings said:


> ...I am not very impressed with the folks on the Big Island.


I feel the same way about the folks from southern California.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Experts Urge Caution over 'MH370' Wreckage' Found in Maldives - by Harriett Alexander/ World News/ The Telegraph/ www.telegraph.co.uk

" Authorities in the Maldives are examining items washed up on four of their beaches, as the hunt for wreckage from MH370 continues.

An object similar to the two-metre long "flaperon" wing fragment was discovered on the pristine beaches of honeymoon resort Banyan Tree Vabbinfaru, according to a local newspaper. The item was reportedly found in May, and is being analysed.

An official from the Maldives Police Service told Chinese news agency Xinhua that a police team, along with aviation experts, has begun investigating the piece of suspected plane debris, which was found on the beach of the private resort. According to local media reports, the piece is probably a plane part and measures five to seven inches long. It was not clear whether the part was from a Boeing 777 – the plane of MH370.

Debris was also found on three other islands – two in Baa Atoll and one in Noonu Atoll. But Haveeru, the local newspaper, said that those objects were likely to be rubbish from construction sites.

"Aircraft parts are made of carbon fibre composite material," said an aeronautical engineer quoted by the paper. "The debris found in those islands do not appear to be made from such material." ..."






Debris from the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 may have washed up on an island in Maldives  Photo: www.facebook.com/modrindo


Richard


----------



## DaveNV

SmithOp said:


> Dave, this comment comes across a little derogatory towards Hawaiians, care to explain?  I've never had a problem with locals in Hawaii, but I have experienced rude, boorish tourists.
> 
> Did the colonial Brits eradicate all the indigenous people of Mauritius?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk




No, no, sorry! Not intended to be derogatory at all.  What I was trying to say was if you picture geography that LOOKS like the Hawaiian Islands, but that was never populated by Polynesians, Mauritius resembles that.  I don't know who the indigenous people of those islands were, but the present-day island is very British in its make up.  At least, it is in the city of Port Louis.

These islands are East of Africa in the Indian Ocean.  To my knowledge, Polynesians never went in that direction.  https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...2!3m1!1s0x217c504941d601ef:0xfdc5186c91bdbb3d

Dave


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Says Most of the Debris in Maldives Not From Plane - From Associated Press/ apnewsarchive.com

"KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Malaysia said Friday that most of the debris found in Maldives were not from a plane and were unrelated to the missing Malaysian jet..."

Richard


----------



## Patri

Oh, good grief. Is this going to become an Amelia Earhart type story, and we just never know? So sad.


----------



## Passepartout

Patri said:


> Oh, good grief. Is this going to become an Amelia Earhart type story, and we just never know? So sad.



Major difference being that it's known where Amelia Earhart's plane went down (or relatively close), and frankly the Indian Ocean is just a huge area and no-one REALLY has any idea where the jet went down. The occasional bit of flotsam will continue to wash up on shores for decades with no clue where the currents have brought it from.

Could be the 'mystery of the century', or longer.


----------



## Ironwood

Investigators are now pursuing the possibility the plane was deliberately redirected off course with the intent to "use it for another purpose".  But obviously something went wrong.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Ironwood said:


> Investigators are now pursuing the possibility the plane was deliberately redirected off course with the intent to "use it for another purpose".  But obviously something went wrong.



Hi Ironwood,

Can you provide a link that discusses this information?

Richard


----------



## Ironwood

Richard....here's six far flung theories!  I can't find the article I read a couple of days ago suggesting the pilot or someone, had hijacked the plane with the intent to land it somewhere and something obviously went wrong.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...ziAvVuoJHzpIPKgZT7d12ng&bvm=bv.99804247,d.cWw


----------



## MULTIZ321

France Unsure Plane Part Came From MH370, Source Says - By Margot Haddad and Ralph Ellis, CNN/ Europe/ cnn.com

 "(CNN)Experts in France have not been able to determine with certainty whether a piece of airplane wing found July 29 on an Indian Ocean island belongs to MH370, the Malaysian airliner carrying 239 people that disappeared 2014, a French source close to the investigation told CNN on Saturday.

Judicial investigators know the part comes from a Boeing 777, but they say they still need to identify a number inside the wing part, called a flaperon, the source said...

..."We still need to identify a number that is inside the flaperon. It is a Spanish subcontracting company that owns that part. This company would be able to identify this number, but the staff is on vacation. We'll have to wait for next week to get their guidance.

"Judicial experts gave a preliminary report to the Paris prosecutor's in the meantime."..."








Richard


----------



## taterhed

A detailed analysis of Boeing’s entire 777 series history showed that the remains of two aircraft have not been accounted for. There are 30 Boeing 777 planes in storage around the world and six that were professionally scrapped by owners. 

There are no details about how Egypt Air’s 777 was disposed of after it suffered a cockpit fire in Cairo four years ago. Likewise, the remains of Asiana Airlines 777 which caught fire at San Francisco Airport in 2013 also remains unknown. Egypt Air and Asiana Airlines did not respond to requests for comment.


----------



## "Roger"

Analysis Confirms Plane Debris Came From Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

(Thought I would try to beat Rich to this one.)


----------



## MULTIZ321

"Roger" said:


> Analysis Confirms Plane Debris Came From Malaysia Airlines Flight 370
> 
> (Thought I would try to beat Rich to this one.)



Congrats Roger.  You sure did. Good catch.

Best regards,

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Missing Malaysia Plane MH370: What We Know - From BBC News/ World/ Asia/ bbc.com

"An aircraft wing part found on Reunion Island in July "with certainty" came from missing flight MH370, French officials have said.

In August Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said the wing part, known as a flaperon, was from the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, which disappeared 18 months ago.

French investigators took a more cautious approach, but have now confirmed that one of three numbers found on the flaperon has been formally identified by a technician from Airbus Defense and Space (ADS-SAU) in Spain, which made the part for Boeing.

The aircraft, which had 239 people onboard, was en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on 8 March 2014 when air traffic control staff lost contact with it.

Despite an extensive search of the southern Indian Ocean, no trace of the aircraft had been found until the discovery of the barnacle-encrusted flaperon on Reunion, more than 3,700km (2,300 miles) away from the main search site..."






Richard


----------



## visor

"barnacle-encrusted flaperon" 

That part is very interesting. Can a floating object over 6 months accumulate barnacle growth?


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 search: Australia believes it is looking in the right place  


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/03/mh370-australia-believes-searching-right-place


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Search Teams 'Looing in the Right Place', Studies Say   





http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/asia/australia-mh370-search-zone/


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370 Update: Air Safety Investigatorys Eliminate Rogue Pilot Theory After Malaysian Plane Debris Found - by Jess McHugh/ World/ International Business Times/ ibtimes.com

"Authorities involved in the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 have mostly dismissed the theory its pilot went rogue and crashed the plane in the Indian Ocean, the Australian newspaper reported Sunday. The flight disappeared from radar en route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur in March 2014, and an international search team has been looking for evidence about what happened to it ever since.

“The limited evidence available for MH370 was compared with three accident classes: an in-flight upset, an unresponsive crew/hypoxia event, and a glide event [generally characterized by a pilot-controlled glide],” according to Dan O’Malley, an Australian Transport Safety Bureau representative cited by the Australian. The leading theory held by investigators is that a dip in oxygen in the cabin caused the crew to lose both consciousness and control of the plane in a so-called hypoxia event..."





French maritime authorities look at a map indicating measures being undertaken in the search for wreckage of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 while at the Saint-Marie marina in the French territory of Reunion Island in August 2015. Photo: AFP/Getty Images 

I think the flaw with this theory is it does not account for the two Left Turns taken by MH370 while still in flight.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Shipwreck From 1800's Found During Search for Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 - by Ben Brumfield/ CNN/ Asia/ edition.cnn.com

 "(CNN)For nearly two years, boats dragging high-tech detection devices across the Indian Ocean have failed to solve the mystery of the whereabouts of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

But in December one boat raked up a different one -- a shipwreck some 200 years old at the bottom of the sea..."





Chinese Police at the Bejing Airport Stand Beside the Arrival Board Showing Delayed Flight 370 in Red on March 8, 2014. 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Doubt Over MH370 Link After Metal Wreckage Found on Thai Coast- by Oliver Holmes in Bangkok/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Large barnacle-covered wreckage prompts MH370 speculation although aerospace experts say it could belong to a discarded Japanese rocket.

A piece of curved metal measuring two metres by three metres and covered in barnacles that washed ashore in the Gulf of Thailand has promoted speculation that it might belong to missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, although several experts swiftly threw doubt over the claims.

Local residents reported the item to authorities in Nakhon Si Thammarat province on Saturday, a district chief told Reuters.

“Villagers found the wreckage, measuring about two metres wide and three metres long,” Tanyapat Patthikongpan said.

Thai and international media suggested the wreckage might be part of MH370, which disappeared with 227 passengers and 12 crew on board in March 2014 during a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Experts online commented that the chunk of metal was not immediately identifiable as a piece of Boeing 777-200ER, the type of passenger jet that went missing.

Aerospace and Boeing reporter for The Wall Street Journal Jon Ostrower said on Twitter the wreckage appeared to be Japanese H-IIA rocket, a liquid fuelled launch system used to transport satellites and space probes..."



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Thai, Malaysian Officials to Investigate Whether New Debris is From MH370 - by Brian Walker, Holly Yan, and Kocha Olarn/ Asia/ CNN/ cnn.com

"Bangkok, Thailand (CNN)Thai and Malaysian officials will investigate whether a large piece of curved metal found on the southern Thai coast could be from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

But analysts are already at odds about whether the debris likely came from a plane.

The debris was found Friday by a fisherman on the coast of Nakhon Si Thammarat province, Malaysia's official Bernama news agency reported Sunday. 

The Thai Civil Aviation Department will dispatch air accident investigators to the site Monday, Deputy Director General Umphawan Wannago told CNN. There, they will meet Malaysian aviation investigators, she said.

Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said it's too early to speculate whether the debris was from MH370 and urged media not to jump to conclusions, as it may worry or upset victims' families, Bernama reported..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search Team Loses Sonar Detector Mapping Seabed - from BBC News/ Asia/ bbc.com

"The Australian team looking for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has lost the sonar detector they were using for their search.

On Sunday, the deep-water detector, or towfish, "collided with a mud volcano which rises 2,200 metres from the seafloor," an official statement said.

Both the device and 4,500 metres of snapped cable are now resting on the sea floor.

The search team believe they will be able to recover both at a later date..."





Much of the search is focussed on sonar mapping of the sea floor 
Getty Images 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Sonar Vehicle Used in MH370 Search Lost After Crashing into Underwater Volcano - by Tim Hume and Elizabeth Joseph, CNN/ Asia/ cnn.com

"(CNN)A sonar vehicle used in the search for the wreckage of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 has been lost after striking an underwater volcano in the southern Indian Ocean, according to search officials.

The vehicle -- called a towfish -- was being towed behind the Fugro Discovery, a specialist search vessel engaged in the hunt for the missing airliner, when it struck the 2,200-meter-high mud volcano Sunday, according to the Joint Agency Coordination Center, or JACC.

As a result, the towfish's cable broke, sending the vehicle and 4.5 kilometers (2.8 miles) of cable to the ocean floor.

The JACC, an Australian government agency created to coordinate search efforts for MH370, said that no crew members were injured.

It was believed the towfish, which scans the ocean floor, could be recovered, the JACC said in a statement..."





The Fugro Discovery, one of the specialist search vessels being used in the hunt for MH370.

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

'High Possibility' Debris is From a Boeing 777, But No MH370 Link Yet - by Doug Staglin/ USA Today/ News/ usatoday.com

"Malaysia's transport minister said Wednesday there is a "high possibility" that a piece of debris found on a sandbar off Mozambique is from a Boeing 777 but more investigation is needed to determine whether it is from the ill-fated Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 that disappeared two years ago with 239 people aboard.

Minister Liow Tiong Lai said on Twitter that Malaysia is working with Australian counterparts to retrieve the debris.

"Based on early reports, high possibility debris found in Mozambique belongs to a B777," he tweeted. "I urged everyone to avoid undue speculation as we are not able to conclude that the debris belongs to #mh370 at this time."

Investigators in Malaysia, Australia and the U.S. have examined photographs of the debris, and say there is a good chance it came from a Boeing 777, according to NBC News.

NBC News quotes unidentified sources as saying the object has the words "NO STEP" on it and could be from a plane's horizontal stabilizer that is attached to the tail. An American who has been blogging about the search for the MH370 found the debris, according to NBC News..."





(Photo: Greg Wood, AFP/Getty Images)


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

The Latest: Sand, Waves May Have Cleaned Possible Plane Part - From Associated Press/ apnewsarchive.com

"WASHINGTON (AP) — The Latest on the investigation into debris found in Mozambique that may be from a Boeing 777, the same aircraft as missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (all times local):

3:30 p.m.

An oceanographer says there may be a reason why the debris found in Mozambique appears to be free of sea life — unlike the barnacle-encrusted wing part found on Reunion Island last year.

Charitha Pattiaratchi at the University of Western Australia said if the part was discovered on a sandbank as reported, the motion of the waves against the abrasive sand may have shaved off any sea life. If it had been found at sea, he says he would expect barnacles, "But if it's been on a beach, it's basically been sandblasted."

Also, the part appears to be flat and barnacles need something to grip. He noted the flaperon had barnacles only on the corners and the crevices.

Pattiaratchi has used computer modeling to predict a Flight 370 debris path, and in September he met American Blaine Gibson, who's been searching the region's beaches for the debris and wanted the oceanographer's opinion on where to look.

Pattiaratchi's models indicated Madagascar or Reunion Island, and possibly in the Mozambique channel. That's apparently where Gibson went, Pattiaratchi said..."





In this Feb. 28, 2016 image provided by Blaine Gibson and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), a piece of aircraft debris with the words "NO STEP" is photographed after it was found washed up on a beach in Mozambique. Debris that washed up in Mozambique has been tentatively identified as a part from the same type of aircraft as the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, a U.S. official said. (Blaine Gibson/ATSB via AP) 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Australian Officials Say MH370 Debris Could Reach Mozambique - by Kristen Gelineau, Associated Press/ Reading Eagle/ readingeagle.com

"Debris that washed ashore in Mozambique that may be from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 turned up in a spot that matches investigators' theories about where wreckage from the plane would have ended up, Australian officials said Thursday.

Photos of the debris discovered over the weekend appear to show the fixed leading edge of the right-hand tail section of a Boeing 777, said a U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak publicly. Flight 370, which disappeared two years ago with 239 people aboard, is the only known missing 777..."





The Associated Press | In this Feb. 28, 2016 image provided by Blaine Gibson and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), a piece of aircraft debris with the words "NO STEP" is photographed after it was found washed up on a beach in Mozambique. Debris that washed up in Mozambique has been tentatively identified as a part from the same type of aircraft as the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, a U.S. official said. (Blaine Gibson/ATSB via AP) 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Tourist Who Found Debris Was Searching for MH370 - by Juliet Perry, CNN/ Asia/ cnn.com

"(CNN)The man who found a piece of plane wreckage off the Mozambique coast has been traveling around the Indian Ocean for a year in a quest to solve the mystery of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

Blaine Gibson, a U.S. lawyer from Seattle, is spearheading a self-funded hunt for the missing plane in an exhaustive search that has taken him from the Maldives to Mauritius and Myanmar.

"I've been very involved in the search for Malaysia 370, just out of personal interest and in a private group -- not in a for-profit way or journalistic way," Gibson told CNN this week..."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Suspected MH370 Debris to be Tested - from DW (Deutsche Welle)/ dw.com

" A meter-long piece of white metal found off the coast of Mozambique in southeast Africa earlier this week by a US man - identified by media reports as 58-year-old Seattle lawyer Blaine Alan Gibson - will be sent to Australia for further testing, that country's officials said Thursday.

"It will be examined by officials from Australia and Malaysia, as well as international specialists," Australian Transport Minister Darren Chester said in a statement..."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Adventurer Who Found Plane Part Drawn to Mysteries - by Phuong Le, Associated Press/ AP/ apnewsarchive.com

SEATTLE (AP) — That an American adventurer could be the one to help crack one of aviation's greatest mysteries came as no shock to his friends, who say they aren't surprised Blaine Gibson's passion for mysteries, travel and meeting people would bring him to the Mozambique coast in search of clues about the missing Malaysia Airlines flight.

The lawyer from Seattle may have discovered what could be a piece of tail section from Flight MH370 that disappeared March 8, 2014 with 239 people aboard. The airliner is believed to have crashed somewhere in a remote stretch of the southern Indian Ocean.

According to New York Magazine, Gibson has also spent much of the past year searching for traces of the missing airliner. Gibson has traveled to the Maldives Islands to investigate reports of a plane flying low at the time of the disappearance, Reunion Island to interview a man who found another section of the plane and met with former Australian Transport Minister Warren Truss to discuss Australia's seabed search for the plane.

"I'm not surprised that he pursued this mysterious disappearance of the plane," said Vladimir Gololobov, who described his friend as eccentric, bright and kind. He met Gibson nearly two decades ago while the American was in Siberia on business trips.

"He is interested in things that are very mysterious and makes you wonder what happened," Gololobov said..."





Blaine Gibson poses for a photo during an interview with the Associated Press in Maputo Mozambique Thursday March 3, 2016. Gibson who discovered an aircraft part in Mozambique that may be from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 says he initially thought it was part of a much smaller plane. Gibson, who has been searching the region's beaches for the debris, said Thursday March 3, 2016 in an interview with that a boat operator who took him to a sandbank named Paluma called him over after seeing a piece of debris with “NO STEP” (AP Photo/Tom Bowker)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

A One-Man Quest for Answers in Malaysian Jet's Disappearance - by Austin Ramzy/ Asia Pacific/ International New York Times/ The New York Times/ nytimes.com

"HONG KONG — The search for the Malaysia Airlines jet that vanished almost two years ago has involved ships scanning thousands of square miles of the Indian Ocean seabed. But what could be the most promising development in months was the result of a lone man’s search, one that took him to an uninhabited sandbank along the coast of Mozambique.

Blaine Alan Gibson’s discovery of a triangular piece of fiberglass composite and aluminum, if it is confirmed to be from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, could add to the scant concrete evidence of what happened to the Boeing 777. The plane, with 239 people aboard, disappeared on March 8, 2014, during a flight from Kuala Lumpur, the Malaysian capital, to Beijing.

Like much of the world, Mr. Gibson, a lawyer from Seattle, said he had become intrigued by the fate of the plane while watching the intensive news coverage after its disappearance. He attended events in Kuala Lumpur marking the first anniversary of the flight, and after meeting with families of missing passengers, he decided to pursue his own investigation..."





 Blaine Alan Gibson with the debris he discovered on the coast of Mozambique. Investigators are examining whether it could be from the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which disappeared almost two years ago. Credit Blaine Alan Gibson 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Two Years On, Families Want Search for MH370 to Continue - from DW (Deutsche Welle)/ dw.com

 "Families gathered at a memorial event in the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur, on Sunday issued an impassioned plea for authorities not to give up looking for MH370 until they had found answers.

Poignant music played as the next-of-kin released white balloons for each of the missing passengers ahead of the second anniversary of the plane's disappearance on March 8, 2014.

"They can stop the search, but where do we stop the feeling of loss? We want them to try, if possible, to continue searching for MH370," said Jacquita Gonzales, who lost her husband, inflight supervisor Patrick Gomes.

"We will fight on to make sure that we get the truth of exactly what happened to all of them. We will not give up."..."





Relatives of passengers who were aboard Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 have appealed to investigators to continue searching for the plane beyond a June deadline. The jet disappeared two years ago with 239 people on board. 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Families of Missing Flight 370 Press for Search to Continue - by Eileen Ng, Associated Press/ AP/ apnewsarchive.com

"KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — The families of those who were aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 appealed to authorities Sunday to continue searching for the plane, saying that one of aviation's great mysteries must not be left unsolved.

An ongoing search in the southern Indian Ocean has found no trace of the Boeing 777, which vanished two years ago with 239 people on board, though a wing part washed ashore on Reunion Island in the western Indian Ocean last July. The search is expected to end in June.

At a commemorative event Sunday to mark the second anniversary of the jet's March 8, 2014, disappearance, family members released white balloons tagged with the names of everyone aboard the plane and the words: "MH370: Always remembered in our hearts."..."





Jacquita Gomes, wife of Patrick Gomes, the in-flight supervisor on the ill fated Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, prepares balloons with names of those on board during a remembrance event in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, Sunday, March 6, 2016. At the commemorative event Sunday to mark the second anniversary of the jet’s March 8, 2014, disappearance, the families of Flight 370 passengers released white balloons tagged with the names of everyone aboard the plane and the words: “MH370: Always remembered in our hearts.” (AP Photo/Joshua Paul)


Richard


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## csxjohn

I wonder how many would want the search to continue this long if they had to foot the bill?  After this long, I think it's time to accept that they are lost and deal with the loss.


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Head of Search Says 'Very Likely' Plane Will Be Found By July - by Elle Hunt in Sydney/ Malaysia Airlines/ Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ the guardian.com

"The man in charge of the hunt for Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 believes it is “very likely” the plane will be found in the next four months, even as the multimillion dollar search effort enters what is likely to be its final stage.

In the two years since the plane disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 227 passengers and 12 crew on board, its only confirmed trace has been a barnacle-encrusted flaperon wing that washed up on the French island of Réunion last July.

Two other pieces of flotsam, found on Réunion and Mozambique, are suspected to come from the plane, but are yet to be positively identified. 

Yet Martin Dolan, the head of the Australian authority tasked with scouring an expanse of seafloor for the wreck of the aircraft, is confident it will be found this year..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Malaysia PM Pledges to Solve 'Agonizing Mystery' of Missing Jet - by Alastair Jamieson/ News/ Missing Jet/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com

"The fruitless search for Flight MH370 is an "agonizing mystery," Malaysia's prime minister said Tuesday as grieving families marked the second anniversary of the disappearance of the plane and its 239 passengers and crew. 

"On this most difficult of days, our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those who will never be forgotten," Najib Razak said. "We know that neither the passage of time, nor this evidence, will comfort those whose grief cannot be assuaged." 

He also pledged to continue the search for the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 but a separate update from the country's civil aviation authority was more blunt, stating that a final accident report would be completed "in the event wreckage … is located or the search … is terminated, whichever is the earlier." ..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

South African Teen Finds Possible MH370 Plane Debris - by Tribune News Services/ News/ Nationworld/ Chicago Tribune/ chicagotribune.com

A South African teenager vacationing in Mozambique may have found part of a wing from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which his family dismissed as "rubbish" and his mother nearly threw away, he said Friday.

On Dec. 30, Liam Lotter was strolling on a beach in southern Mozambique, near the resort town of Xai Xai, when he spotted a gray piece of debris washed up on the sand, he recalled. It had rivet holes along the edge and the number 676EB stamped on it, convincing him he had found a piece of an aircraft. So he dragged the piece back to his family's vacation home.

"It was so waterlogged at that time, it was quite heavy. I struggled to pick it up," he told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. The curved piece of debris is about 3.3 feet long, and about half that length wide, his father Casper Lotter said.

His parents dismissed it as a "piece of rubbish" that was probably debris from a boat, with his uncle making fun of him for dragging it around, but the 18-year-old insisted on bringing it back to South Africa to research the fragment..."





A mural of flight MH370 in Shah Alam outside Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia on Feb. 23, 2016. (Joshua Paul / AP)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Malaysia Airlines Sued by Family of Victim Paul Weeks - From Australian Associated Press/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Weeks’s family seeking compensation for ‘personal injury, loss and damage’ suffered after his death.

The family of Perth man Paul Weeks, who was on the doomed Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, is suing the company for damages.

Five writs were lodged on March 4 in the West Australian supreme court – four days before the second anniversary of the plane’s mysterious disappearance and just before the statute of limitations was reached..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 Investigators to Examine Debris Finds - by Michelle Innis/ Australia/ International New York Times/ The New York Times/ nytimes.com

"SYDNEY, Australia — The Australian authorities coordinating the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 said Wednesday that they had begun analyzing two pieces of debris suspected to be from the missing plane and that a third piece recently found in South Africa would also be examined.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau said the Malaysian government was working with officials in South Africa to arrange for examination of the debris found there this week, which was “suspected to be the cowling from an engine.” Malaysia’s transport minister, Liow Tiong Lai, said Tuesday on Twitter that analysis was needed to determine whether the part, which appeared to bear a partial logo from the engine maker Rolls-Royce, came from Flight 370.

Two other pieces of debris, both found in Mozambique in recent weeks, arrived in Australia on Sunday, and experts have begun analyzing them, the Australian officials said Wednesday in a weekly update on the search for the Boeing 777..."





 A piece of debris found in South Africa appears to bear the logo of the engine maker Rolls-Royce. Credit Neels Kruger/Associated Press 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 Debris Found in Mozambique 'Almost Certainly' from Missing Plane - by Elle Hunt and Agencies/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Australian government says analysis on two pieces of debris indicates they are ‘highly likely’ to have come from missing craft, fuelling confidence further remains will be found soon.

Debris found in Mozambique is “almost certainly” from the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, the Australian government has confirmed, fuelling belief that the remains of the plane will be found in the coming months.
Possible piece of MH370 engine found on South African beach
Read more

Darren Chester, the minister for infrastructure and transport, said in a statement on Thursday analysis has found that the two pieces of debris – separate discoveries in Mozambique in the past four months – is “highly likely to have come from MH370”..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

More MH370 Debris Has Been Found, But the Plane's Disappearance Remains a Mystery - by Kurtis Lee/ World/ Asia/ Los Angeles Times/ latimes.com

"Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 vanished in March 2014. For 17 months, no trace of it was found.

The location of the missing passenger jet officially remains a mystery. But the discovery of pieces of a Boeing 777 this week and last summer renewed searchers' hopes that they might learn what happened to the plane's 239 passengers and crew members. All are presumed dead.

On Thursday, Australian officials said debris discovered in Mozambique is "highly likely" to have come from missing MH370.

An analysis of the parts by an international investigation team showed both pieces are consistent with panels from a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 aircraft, Transport Minister Darren Chester said in a statement.

That discovery followed the recovery last summer of a piece of debris along the coast of Madagascar. Authorities confirmed in August that the debris, a piece of wing, belonged to the missing airliner. The six-foot-long "flaperon" was covered with marine crustaceans when it washed ashore on Reunion Island, meaning it had been submerged for a long period of time. 

The discovery of parts provides another piece of the puzzle of the plane's fate and bolsters authorities' assertion that the jet went down somewhere in the Indian Ocean. But whether they will find any clues to explain exactly what happened to the aircraft and why is uncertain. Here's a synopsis of one of the most mysterious disappearances in aviation history:..."





The shadow of a Royal New Zealand Air Force P3 Orion is cast on low-level clouds while the aircraft searches for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the southern Indian Ocean on March 31, 2014. (Rob Griffith / Associated Press)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Missing MH370: Mozambique Debris Matches Boeing 777 Parts, ATSB Says - by Alistair Jamieson/ Missing-Jet/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com


 "Paint and stenciling on debris found in Mozambique matches Boeing 777 parts used by Malaysia Airlines, investigators searching for missing Flight MH370 said Wednesday.

Examination and analysis of two parts found on the east African coast was carried out in Australia by international experts, the Australian Transportation Safety Bureau (ATSB) announced in an update.

"The dimensions, materials and construction of both parts conform to the specifications of a Boeing 777 aircraft," it said. "The paint and stenciling on both parts match those used by Malaysia Airlines; and as such, both parts are consistent with panels from a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 aircraft, and are almost certainly from MH370." ..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Suspected MH370 Debris Found on Island Nation of Mauritius - by Don Melvin, CNN/ Asia/ cnn.com

" (CNN)A piece of debris thought to be from the Malaysian airliner that went missing more than two years ago over the Indian Ocean has been found in the island nation of Mauritius.

The debris suspected to be from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which vanished in March 2014 with 239 people on board, was found Thursday on the coast of Rodrigues Island, an employee of the Mourouk Ebony Hotel, where the debris was stored for safekeeping, told CNN.

Jean Josie Milazare said two hotel guests, Jean Dominique and Suzy Vitry, from La Reunion, found a piece of debris on the beach. Milazare said police now have the debris.

Mauritius, a volcanic island nation in the Indian Ocean that is a bit over 10 times the size of Washington, D.C., is known for its beaches, lagoons and reefs. It lies about 700 miles east of Madagascar, in the Indian Ocean...."





Hotel guests found the debris on a beach, an employee of the Mourouk Ebony Hotel said.

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Missing MH370: Suspected Debris Found on Mauritian Island to be Examined - by Reuters/ Missing Jet/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com

" SYDNEY — Australia will examine a piece of suspected plane debris found east of Africa on a Mauritian island to determine whether it is a part of missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

A hotel owner on the island who saw the debris said it looked like it was from the inside of a plane, with what he thought was a wallpaper "design", which if confirmed, would be the first piece of interior debris from the plane yet to be found. 

 Australia has led the search for the plane, which went missing in March 2014 with 239 people on board. Transport Minister Darren Chester said the debris, found last week, was an "item of interest."

"The Malaysian government is working with officials from Mauritius to seek to take custody of the debris and arrange for its examination," Chester said in a statement.

He did not say from what part of the missing Boeing 777 the debris was suspected to have come...."





A piece of suspected plane debris found on Rodrigues Island, east of Mauritius. Supplied / Mourouk Ebony Hotel 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Airlines MH370 Searchers Lose 2nd Sonar Device in 3 Months - Alexander Smith/ Missing Jet/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com

"Trying to find a needle in a haystack while battling some of the roughest seas in the world, experts hunting for traces of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 are already facing a daunting task. 

The search operation revealed details Wednesday of how it came to lose its second "towfish," an underwater sonar device dragged behind ships that scans the seabed for debris. 

The yellow, torpedo-shaped unit was attached to an 1,800-pound weight to keep it floating from the surface when "the failure of a tow cable connector resulted in the loss of the … towfish and the attached depressor," the Joint Agency Coordination Centre (JACC) said in statement. 

With the towfish likely thousands of feet down on the seabed, a remote-controlled submersible was flown in from the United States and dispatched aboard a ship from Australia on Monday, the JACC said......"





The Remora III, the remotely-operated vehicle that will try to find and recover the lost towfish. Phoenix International


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370:Two New Aircraft  Fragments  'Almost  Certainly' From Missing Plane  



Two aircraft fragments found on the beaches of South Africa and Mauritius are all but confirmed to be from missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared two years ago with 239 people on board.

A piece of engine cowling featuring a Rolls-Royce stencil, which was found in South Africa earlier this year, is “almost certainly” from the Boeing 777 that went missing more than two years ago with 239 people on board, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau said on Thursday.

The second piece found on 30 March in Mauritius – eight days after the engine cowling – is “almost certainly” a panel segment from MH370’s main cabin.

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Australia: Mozambique Debris Almost Certainly From MH370 - by Don Melvin, CNN/ Asia/ cnn.com

"(CNN)Two pieces of debris recovered from beaches in Mozambique -- one found in December and the other in February -- almost certainly came from missing Malaysia Airlines flight 370, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau said Tuesday. 

"Part No. 1 was a flap track fairing segment, almost certainly from the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 aircraft, registered 9M-MRO," the Safety Bureau report said of the piece found December 27.

The second piece of debris was found February 27, approximately 135 miles (220 kilometers) from the spot where the first item was discovered.
"Part No. 2 was a horizontal stabilizer panel segment, almost certainly from the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 aircraft, registered 9M-MRO," the report said...."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MULTIZ321 said:


> Australia: Mozambique Debris Almost Certainly From MH370 - by Don Melvin, CNN/ Asia/ cnn.com
> 
> "(CNN)Two pieces of debris recovered from beaches in Mozambique -- one found in December and the other in February -- almost certainly came from missing Malaysia Airlines flight 370, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau said Tuesday.
> 
> "Part No. 1 was a flap track fairing segment, almost certainly from the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 aircraft, registered 9M-MRO," the Safety Bureau report said of the piece found December 27.
> 
> The second piece of debris was found February 27, approximately 135 miles (220 kilometers) from the spot where the first item was discovered.
> "Part No. 2 was a horizontal stabilizer panel segment, almost certainly from the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 aircraft, registered 9M-MRO," the report said...."
> 
> 
> 
> Richard




Debris Found in Mozambique 'Highly Likely' to be from MH370
 - by Euan McKirdy, CNN/ World/ cnn.com

Some additional information to the above piece


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Debris Found in March 'Almost Certainly' From Missing Plane - by Euan McKirdy, CNN/ World/ cnn.com

Some additional information to the two CNN articles in the above post.





Part no. 4 was identified as a Boeing 777 panel segment from the main cabin.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

ID'ing of New MH370 Debris is Meaningless - Here's the Evidence Malaysian Authorities Should Release- by Christine Negroni/ Forbes/ Logistics & Transportation/ forbes.com

"Maybe because it is the easy story, or maybe it is because Malaysian aviation officials are so good about confounding reporters, but the “news” this week that more debris has been identified as coming from Malaysia 370 is a big ho hum, and that’s frustrating for anyone who really cares about what happened two years ago to the flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

The world already knows that the airplane with the registration 9M-MRO flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014, inexplicably went down far off course in the South Indian Ocean about 7 hours after takeoff..."

I don't remember reading about a power outage on the flight. Curious to learn more about that.

I wonder if investigators ever contacted Marine Biologist Molly Lutcavage or her former collaborator, John Killingsley regarding the barnacles. See Post 473 in this thread as to how the barnacles could help in the investigation to locate MH370. Very compelling.

Regarding Military Radar - see TR Oglodytes' post #60 and Follow Up Map in
Post #294 by SMHarmon.  Also Post #278 for Final 54 minutes of Communications from MH370. See Post #345 for Graphic of Inmart's Global Coverage and how Satellites Tracked Down Flight MH370. Also Post #487 for Satellite Handshake with MH370.

For a mention of cell tower info see Post #365.

I don't agree with the title of the article that the debris located is meaningless. I do agree that additional information should be released regarding the investigation.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Three More Pieces of Debris Possibly from MH370, Says Australia - from Agence France -Presse ((International News Agency)/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"The new pieces have been found in Mauritius and in Mozambique and are in addition to five other fragments from the Boeing 777.

Three new pieces of debris have been found in Mauritius and in Mozambique that could be linked to missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, Australia’s transport minister has said.

The fate of the passenger jet, which is presumed to have crashed at sea after disappearing en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 passengers and crew on board in March 2014, remains a mystery.

Five other fragments have previously been found and identified as definitely or probably from the Boeing 777.

All of them were discovered thousands of kilometres from the current search zone far off Australia’s west coast..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Likely MH370 Piece Was Left on South African Beach Because of Smell - by Alexander Smith/ Missing Jet/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com

 "A retired doctor discovered a likely piece of Malaysia Airlines MH370 on a beach — but left it in the sand because it smelled so bad, local media reported.

A photograph of the barnacle-encrusted piece found by Schalk Lückhoff in South Africa was released Tuesday by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, which is coordinating the search for the missing airliner. 

 The ATSB's release drew attention to an interview Lückhoff gave with Afrikaans-language broadcaster Netwerk24 last week, in which he explained why he had not collected the object or reported it to authorities.

He told Netwerk24: "It was the only object on the empty sands. It was smelly because it was encrusted in rotting mussels so I didn't handle it, I just took a photograph. It did not occur to me this could be a piece of a plane's insignia ... After the next high [tide] I didn't see it anymore and assumed it had been taken back into the sea."

Lückhoff took the photo in South Afirca's Mossel Bay on December 23, according to the ATSB. Barnacles and sand could be seen partially covering a distinctive Rolls-Royce "RR" stencil, likely from one of MH370's two engines..."





An aircraft engine cowling stencilled with the Rolls-Royce logo that is believed to be from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370. Schalk Lückhoff / via Australian Transport Safety Bureau


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: BBC Reader Finds Possible Debris in Mozambique - From BBC News/ World/ Asia/ bbc.com

"Experts following the disappearance of MH370 say it is likely that a new piece of debris found on a Mozambique beach came from the missing plane.

Luca Kuhn von Burgsdorff contacted the BBC on Thursday to say he found the fragment on the Macaneta peninsula.

The authorities have been notified. The piece must be examined by the official investigation team in Australia.

Experts say it is consistent with where previous pieces of debris from the missing plane have been found.

Mr von Burgsdorff took two photographs of the item on 22 May, and sent them to the BBC after reading a story on Thursday about other debris finds in the region.

He said the pieces were "reasonably light, did not have metal on the outside, and looked extremely similar to photos posted on the internet of other pieces of debris from aeroplanes"...."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search: New Debris Found on Madagascar Beach - From BBC News/ World/ Asia/ bbc.com

"New pieces of debris have been found in Madagascar by a man searching for parts of missing flight MH370.

Blaine Gibson, who has already found possible debris in Mozambique, made the latest discovery on the east coast of Madagascar.

One of the parts resembles an aeroplane seat part. Mr Gibson has sent images of the finds to investigators..."





Blaine Alan Gibson
Image caption Blaine Gibson made the find on an island in eastern Madagascar 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Possible Debris From Missing Flight MH370 Found in Madagascar and Australia - by Casey Quackenbush/ World/ MH370/ Time/ time.com

"New debris believed to be from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 has been found on a beach in Madagascar.

Blaine Gibson, an American man who is hunting for debris from the missing plane, found the wreckage on Riake beach, on the island of Nosy Boraha, reports the BBC....

...Australian investigators are also examining a possible piece of wreckage that washed up on Kangaroo Island off the South Australian coast Thursday...."

Be sure to click on the active hyperlink "examining" in the article to see
the story from the Sydney Morning Herald.





Samuel Armstrong holds a piece of debris he found on Kangaroo Island in South Australia. Photo: Seven News


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Australia Reconsiders How Far Flight 370 May Have Flown - by Keith Bradsher/ World/ Asia/ Pacific/ Australia/ The New York Times/ nytimes.com

"PERTH, Australia — The search for Malaysia Airlines’ missing Flight 370 on the floor of the southern Indian Ocean is nearing an end with no sign of the plane in the area that investigators had concluded it most likely went down, prompting a last-ditch reassessment of assumptions used to calculate its final descent and draw the search zone.

At issue are estimates of how far the plane may have traveled after it ran out of fuel, notably whether it followed a tight or broad spiral down as it fell or glided toward the ocean, officials said.

“We’re really doing further work to test our assumption about the end of flight, which defines our search area,” said Martin Dolan, the chief commissioner of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau. “It’s really testing to make sure we haven’t missed anything, and that our assumptions remain valid.”..."





 Technicians worked aboard the Fugro Equator, a ship searching for the remains of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, as it docked in Fremantle, Australia, in May. Credit David Dare Parker for The New York Times 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search: Photos of Possible Personal Items Released - by Richard Westcott/ World/ Asia/ BBC/ bbc.com

"Campaigners for families of those on board missing flight MH370 have released photographs of personal items that washed up on a Madagascar beach, hoping to identify them.

Some 20 items found include purses, backpacks and part of a laptop case.

There are no labels identifying them as belonging to the 239 people on board the jet that vanished two years ago.

The items were found by US lawyer Blaine Gibson, who concedes they may be irrelevant in the hunt for MH370.

"They may have just fallen off a ship," Mr Gibson told the BBC.

"Still, I found them on the same 18km (11-mile) stretch of beach where I found suspected aircraft parts [of the Malaysia Airlines jet] so it is important that they are investigated properly."..."





Blaine Gibson
Image caption Some 20 personal effects recently found on Riake beach by Blaine Gibson include this "Angry Bird" bag 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Search for Missing Flight MH370 Gives Up Possible Personal Items - by Rebecca Wright, CNN/ Africa/ cnn.com

"(CNN)The waters off Madagascar in the Indian Ocean have delivered what debris hunter Blaine Gibson says could be the first personal items belonging to passengers aboard missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Gibson told CNN he also found two possible pieces of debris on a beach near the same place he discovered other pieces of debris that Australian authorities have said "almost certainly" belong to the airliner.

The Malaysian Airlines flight went missing with 239 people on board in March 2014, and despite a two-year search investigation, mystery still surrounds its final resting place..."





Suspected debris and personal belongings found in Madagascar

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Officials from Australia, China and Malaysia to Discuss Future of Search - From Australian Associated Press/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Senior aviation officials from Australia, Malaysia and China are meeting in Kuala Lumpur to discuss the future of the search for missing aircraft MH370 that disappeared in 2014.

Australia’s transport minister, Darren Chester, said the tripartite meeting of officials on Monday and Tuesday would pave the way for a final ministerial-level meeting after the 2 July federal election.

The three countries previously agreed that in the absence of credible new information, the search would be wound up once the 120,000 square kilometre zone in the southern Indian Ocean was scoured.

MH370: two years on, mystery still no closer to a solution

The search for the Boeing 777 is in its final phase, with 15,000sq km yet to be covered, and is being delayed by winter weather...."




Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 Ocean Search 'Severely Impacted' by Poor Weather, ATSB Warns - by Alastair Jamieson/ Missing Jet/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com

"Poor weather in the southern Indian Ocean has delayed the search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 for almost two months, authorities warned Wednesday.

Bad conditions in the region are making it impossible to use the robot submersible needed to explore hidden canyons on the sea bed, Australia's Transportation Safety Bureau (ATSB) said in an update.

More than 90 per cent of the 46,000-square mile search zone — an underwater area the size of Pennsylvania — has been covered but with no sign of the Boeing 777, which vanished on March 8, 2014. It had 239 people on board..."

Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 Relatives' Anger at 'Ignored' Debris from BBC News

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36791241


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Possible Malaysia Airlines MH370 Debris Found on Pembra Island 
From NBC News

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/possible-malaysia-airlines-mh370-debris-found-pemba-island-n611421


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Oceanographer Says Flight 370 Could be North of Search Area - From Associated Press


http://www.apnewsarchive.com/2016/T...ghtly-nor/id-9a0873f06f0d491d81a476d7764ef424


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 Hunt: Team Leading Search Says They May Have Been Looking in Wrong Place - From Reuters


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ays-they-may-have-been-looking-in-wrong-place


Richard


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## Passepartout

MULTIZ321 said:


> MH370 Hunt: Team Leading Search Says They May Have Been Looking in Wrong Place - From Reuters



I'd give them the award for stating the obvious! And it's taken more than 2 years! Sheesh!


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Search to be Suspended After Current Phase - News/ Aljazeera/ aljazeer.com

"The search for missing Malaysian jet will be suspended if plane not found in initial search zone, authorities say. 

The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 will be suspended if the plane is not found in the suspected crash zone, the three-nation search team of Malaysia, Australia and China has announced.

Close to $135 million has been spent since on a massive underwater search, spanning 120,000 square kilometres in the southern Indian Ocean, since the plane disappeared in March 2014 with 239 people onboard en route from Malaysia to China.

"In the absence of new credible evidence, Malaysia, Australia and China have collectively agreed to suspend the search upon completion of the 120,000 km search," Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said, emphasising that suspending the search did not mean completely stopping it..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

The Search for the Flight MH370 Will be 'Suspended' if Not Found in Current Search Area  - by Rozanna Latiff, and Paveen Menon, Reuters/ Business Insider/ businessinsider.com

"KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 will be "suspended" if the plane is not found in the current search area, a statement issued to the next of kin seen by Reuters said on Friday. 

 Ministers from Malaysia, China and Australia met in Kuala Lumpur today to discuss the future of the search in one of the world's greatest aviation mysteries.

The statement said ministers had agreed that if the plane is not found in current search area, and in the absence of new credible evidence on its location, the search "would not end, but be suspended".

MH370 disappeared during a flight from the Malaysian capital to Beijing in March 2014, carrying 239 people.

Almost A$180 million ($135 million) has been spent on an underwater search spanning 120,000 sq km in the southern Indian Ocean, the most expensive in aviation history..."






 Member of staff at satellite communications company Inmarsat point to a section of the screen showing the southern Indian Ocean to the west of Australia, at their headquarters in London Thomson Reuters 


Richard


----------



## x3 skier

MULTIZ321 said:


> MH370 Hunt: Team Leading Search Says They May Have Been Looking in Wrong Place - From Reuters
> 
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ays-they-may-have-been-looking-in-wrong-place
> 
> 
> Richard



“If it’s not there, it means it’s somewhere else,” Fugro project director Paul Kennedy told Reuters.

Why didn't I think of that?

Cheers


----------



## PigsDad

x3 skier said:


> “If it’s not there, it means it’s somewhere else,” Fugro project director Paul Kennedy told Reuters.
> 
> Why didn't I think of that?



If they do eventually find the wreckage, I bet it will be "in the last place they looked". :rofl:

Kurt


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 'Must Not Go Into Oblivion', Says Pilot's Sister - by Richard Westcott, Transport Correspondent, BBC News/ Asia/ BBC News/ bbc.com

"Sakinab Shah doesn't give many interviews.

She's wary, because her brother was Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, the man flying MH370 on the night it vanished more than two years ago.

"I've got to lend him a voice. He's gone. If I don't talk on his behalf, if I don't portray him as the real person that he was, nobody will be any the wiser."

Captain Shah was an experienced pilot with an unblemished record, yet after the Malaysian government said that the plane's disappearance was deliberate, some fingers began pointing at the skipper in the cockpit. 

Who were the pilots of flight MH370?

I met Sakinab at her home in Kuala Lumpur, where her brother was a regular visitor. He lived nearby. She told me about the moment he fell under suspicion.

"It was very hurtful," she said. "It added to the stress of the loss. A very close brother of mine is missing, and on top of that I have to contend with all the accusations. It's a very difficult situation. We cry often, my siblings and I, and my nieces are all so affected because they were so close to their uncle."..."





Sakinab Shah: "There was not a moment when we doubted our brother" 



Richard


----------



## visor

Report: MH370 pilot conducted similar route on home computer

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/asia/mh370-pilot-simulation/index.html


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysian Police Dismiss MH370 'Pilot Murder-Suicide' Claim - by Charlie Campbell, Beijing/ World/ Aviation/ Time/ time.com

"It is the latest twist in the $135 million investigation that relatives of the victims have long accused of a lack of transparency.

Malaysian police have dismissed media reports that say missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was deliberately steered into the sea by a pilot intent on mass murder suicide.

On Friday, New York magazine published an article based upon what it claims is a leaked investigation document, allegedly showing Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had “conducted a simulated flight deep into the remote southern Indian Ocean” on his home flight simulator less than a month before MH370 vanished.

The route and destination of the simulated flight was similar to the route investigators believe the plane took.

“We found a flight path, that led to the southern Indian Ocean, among the numerous other flight paths charted on the flight simulator, that could be of interest,” the document said, according to New York magazine.

However, Malaysian Police Inspector-General Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar told local media Saturday that no information had been passed onto investigators in the U.S., where the magazine said it obtained the document..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight 370: With Search Suspended, A Cold-Case File Awaits - by Ted Anthony, Associated Press/ AP/ apnewsarchive.com

"BANGKOK (AP) — For two years and more, it has been a lost ship, a metal container carrying 239 souls that simply disappeared one late Asian night never to be seen again. And now, the search for the remains of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 likely will become a thing of memory, too.

With Friday's announcement that the meticulous ocean search for the missing jetliner will be suspended — in effect, called off — one of this decade's most tantalizing unanswered questions is headed toward becoming, in effect, a cold case.

"I am not surprised it's coming to an end without any answers," Tony Wong, a businessman in Kuala Lumpur, said Monday.

"People are slowly forgetting the incident," he said. "No one will ever know the truth."

The truth may be out there. The problem is, you have to know where to look. And that's been precisely the problem all along.

The Boeing 777-200ER vanished on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014. Investigators believed it turned back west and then south before dropping into the Indian Ocean west of Australia, where the search has been concentrated. The Malaysian government has concluded that it was deliberately steered off course. Conspiracy theories, unsurprisingly, still abound in the vacuum of facts: Was it blown up? Steered into the sea? Diverted to a remote airstrip somewhere? Abducted by aliens?...."





FILE - This Feb. 28, 2015, file photo shows a suitcase belonging to Foong Wai Yueng, 40, a stewardess who was aboard Malaysian Airlines flight 370 when it disappeared last March, at her home in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Yueng's husband asked a friend to return the suitcase to him from the hotel where the Malaysia Airlines crew would stay in Beijing. With the Friday, July 22, 2016, announcement that the meticulous ocean search operations for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 would be suspended, the epic arc of one of this decade's most vexing unanswered questions is headed toward becoming, in effect, a cold case. (AP Photo/Joshua Paul, File)


Richard


----------



## "Roger"

In terms of not knowing where to look, last week on the same day (somewhat before the suspension was announced) I heard two reports on the radio. 

One report contained the claim that the plane might have been in a controlled glide after the fuel ran out (with a pilot or copilot still in charge) and that the plane went far beyond the search area. The other report was based on someone who did a computer analysis of where the debris that has been found has shown up and what is known about the ocean currents in the area. He concluded the plane crashed well before the search site.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370: Modelling Shows Debris May be Further North, Say Scientists - From Agence France-Presse/ World/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Italian researchers used computer modelling to determine possible location of the main wreckage.

ust days after authorities mooted suspending the ocean search for missing flight MH370, researchers suggested the debris zone may stretch a further 500km (310 miles) north.

A team of Italian scientists used computer modelling, into which they fed data on ocean currents and winds over the past two years, to try and pinpoint the Malaysia Airlines plane’s likely underwater grave.

They also added information on the location of five confirmed pieces of debris found to date – two in Mozambique and one each in Reunion, South Africa, and Mauritius.

“One of the most important findings is that everything that has been discovered so far is indeed compatible with the area where the authorities are searching,” lead researcher Eric Jansen of the Euro-Mediterranean Center on Climate Change in Italy told AFP.

“The most likely (crash) area we found in our simulations overlaps with the official search area,” he said. But it also stretches a further 500 km north.

“If nothing is found in the current search area, it may be worth extending the search in this direction,” said Jansen, while conceding “the area is very large.”..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Wing Part 'Highly Likely' From MH370, Australian Officials Say - by Madison Park, CNN/ World/ Asia/ CNN/ cnn.com

 "(CNN) A large wing part recently found on a Tanzanian island "highly likely" came from missing Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, according to Australia's transport minister.

The piece of debris was found in late June on Pemba Island, in the Indian Ocean near the mainland. The piece, believed to be part of the outboard wing flap of the missing Boeing 777, was transported to Australia and analyzed by the country's Transport and Safety Bureau.

"The experts will continue to analyze this piece to assess what information can be determined from it," said Darren Chester, minister for Australia's Infrastructure and Transport..."





A piece of aircraft debris found on Pemba Island, just off Tanzania, in late June was analyzed in Australia.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370 Was Flown Into Water, Says Crash Expert - From Australian Associated Press/ Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Larry Vance tells 60 Minutes the ‘flaperon’ found in Madagascar was extended at time of landing, suggesting rogue pilot brought plane down,"

A section of wing from missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 shows evidence it was extended upon landing, suggesting a rogue pilot brought it down, an air crash expert says.

World expert air crash investigator Larry Vance believes no other theory can explain the fate of the doomed aircraft.

“Somebody was flying the airplane into the water,” he told Channel Nine’s 60 Minutes program on Sunday.

The Australian search has been based on the theory the jet was not under human control when it crashed with 239 people on board, en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on 8 March 2014, after it inexplicably veered off course and headed south over the Indian Ocean.

Vance believes a small section of wing, called the flaperon, found a year ago off the coast of Madagascar, shows “definite evidence” it was extended at the time of landing – and the extending can only be activated by a person.

The failure to find floating debris could also be explained by a slow, controlled landing, he said...."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

The Evidence is Mounting That  Disappearance of MH370  Was a Deliberate Act By The Pilot


http://www.businessinsider.com/moun...appearance-deliberate-act-by-pilot-2016-8?amp


Richard


----------



## Tia

Very very sad indeed 



MULTIZ321 said:


> The Evidence is Mounting That  Disappearance of MH370  Was a Deliberate Act By The
> 
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/moun...appearance-deliberate-act-by-pilot-2016-8?amp
> 
> 
> Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Was Flown into Water 'Deliberately', Says Senior Crash Expert - by Chiara Palazzo, Sydney and James Rothwell/ News/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"One of the world's leading air crash investigators says he believes flight MH370 was "deliberately" crashed into the sea by a rogue pilot in a possible murder-suicide bid. 

Larry Vance said erosion on the edges of recovered wing parts suggested the plane was lowered to its doom in a controlled fashion. 

The erosion was caused by a part of the plane's wing – called a flaperon – being exposed to the elements when it was extended.

The flaperon can only be extended by a pilot in full control of his plane,  he said...."





 A piece of debris identified as a flaperon from missing flight MH370 Credit: EPA 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Admits MH370 Pilot Flew Indian Ocean Route on Flight Simulator - by Agence France-Presse/ News/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"Malaysian officials have said that one of MH370's pilots plotted a path over the Indian Ocean on a home flight simulator, but warned this did not prove he deliberately crashed the plane.

The Malaysia Airlines jet was carrying 239 passengers and crew when it disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014.

It is believed to have crashed into the Indian Ocean, but an extensive hunt off Australia's west coast is drawing to a close without any sign of the plane.



Pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah had used a home-made flight simulator to plot a very similar course to MH370's presumed final route, said Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai.

But he emphasised this was just one of thousands of practice routes discovered on Zaharie's hard drive.

"There is no evidence to confirm that (the pilot) flew the plane into the southern Indian Ocean," he told reporters at a press conference on Thursday.
..."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Confirms Flight 370 Course Was On Pilot's Simulator - by Eileen Ng/ World/ Aviation/ Time/ time.com

"Malaysian officials had previously refused to confirm the findings.

(KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia) — Malaysia acknowledged for the first time that one of the pilots of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 had plotted a course on his home flight simulator to the southern Indian Ocean, where the missing jet is believed to have crashed.

Australian officials overseeing the search for the plane last month said data recovered from Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah’s simulator included a flight path to the southern Indian Ocean. Malaysian officials at the time refused to confirm the findings.

On Thursday, Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai told local journalists that the flight path was found on the simulator. He also cautioned there were “thousands” of destinations on the simulator and no evidence that Zaharie flew the plane in that area or deliberately crashed it...."

Richard


----------



## x3 skier

MULTIZ321 said:


> MH370 Was Flown into Water 'Deliberately', Says Senior Crash Expert - by Chiara Palazzo, Sydney and James Rothwell/ News/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk
> 
> "One of the world's leading air crash investigators says he believes flight MH370 was "deliberately" crashed into the sea by a rogue pilot in a possible murder-suicide bid.
> 
> Larry Vance said erosion on the edges of recovered wing parts suggested the plane was lowered to its doom in a controlled fashion.
> 
> The erosion was caused by a part of the plane's wing – called a flaperon – being exposed to the elements when it was extended.
> 
> The flaperon can only be extended by a pilot in full control of his plane,  he said...."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A piece of debris identified as a flaperon from missing flight MH370 Credit: EPA
> 
> 
> Richard



If a pilot was going to crash into the ocean, why would he lower the flaps to slow the speed down????? Did he shoot the copilot???  Where they both suicidal???

The expert sounds like a publicity hound. 

Cheers


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search Ship Fugro Discovery Ends Mission Without Success - by Alistair Jamieson/ News/ Missing Jet/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com


 "One of the three ships searching the depths of the Indian Ocean for Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 will end its mission Thursday, authorities said.

The Fugro Discovery will leave the remote search zone ahead of the anticipated suspension of efforts to locate the wreckage of the missing Boeing 777. 

 The Joint Agency Co-ordination Centre (JACC) said in an operational update Wednesday that the contracted vessel will "transit to Singapore to be readied for its next project, unrelated to the search for MH370."

It leaves Fugro Equator and Dong Hai Jiu 101 to search the remainder of the 46,000 square mile zone that experts say is the most likely place where the plane crashed in 2014..."





Fugro Discovery has covered 50,000 miles and found no trace of MH370. ABIS Chris Beerens / ABIS Chris Beerens


Richard


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

x3 skier said:


> If a pilot was going to crash into the ocean, why would he lower the flaps to slow the speed down????? Did he shoot the copilot???  Where they both suicidal???
> 
> The expert sounds like a publicity hound.
> 
> Cheers



Who knows?  There are many aspects of this situation that seem to defy logic.

That being said I could see where a pilot might have wanted to see how long he could keep the plane airborne after running out of fuel.


----------



## x3 skier

*Australian Transpotation Safety Board corrects the record*

https://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/correcting-the-record/

"*False and inaccurate media report on the search for MH370*
25 July 2016

An article published in The Australian today by Byron Bailey in relation to the search for MH370 contains inaccurate information and false assertions. In the interests of providing a transparent and accurate account, the ATSB considers it necessary to correct the record.

Firstly, Mr Bailey claims that the company contracted by the ATSB to conduct the search, Fugro, believes they are looking in the wrong place. In fact, Fugro has publicly denied this claim and issued a statement to say:

Fugro wishes to make it very clear that we believe the search area to have been well defined based on all of the available scientific data. In short, we have been thoroughly looking in the most probable place – and that is the right place to search.

Mr Bailey also claims that FBI data from MH370 captain’s home simulator shows that the captain plotted a course to the southern Indian Ocean and that it was a deliberate planned murder/suicide. There is no evidence to support this claim.

As Infrastructure and Transport Minister Darren Chester said in a statement, the simulator information shows only the possibility of planning. It does not reveal what happened on the night of its disappearance nor where the aircraft is located.

While the FBI data provides a piece of information, the best available evidence of the aircraft’s location is based on what we know from the last satellite communications with the aircraft. This is indeed the consensus of international satellite and aircraft specialists."

The ATSB corrects several other statements. 

Cheers


----------



## Passepartout

Off hand, I'd say it's pretty obvious that they're searching the wrong area. If they were searching in the right place, they'd have found it.


----------



## Beefnot

Passepartout said:


> Off hand, I'd say it's pretty obvious that they're searching the wrong area. If they were searching in the right place, they'd have found it.



It is not that obvious if the consensus of most experts evaluating the data is that this was the right search area.  The area is wide enough and the ocean there is deep enough that perhaps it is not unreasonable that they have been unable to locate the plane.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search: Tanzania Debris 'Part of Missing Plane', From BBC News.

http:/xwww.bbc.com/news/world-asia--37377514.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search: Tanzania Debris 'Part of Missing Plane', From BBC News.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37377514






Australian Transport Safety Bureau
Image caption The part number and date stamp helped investigators trace the origins of the piece 




Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Debris Found in Madagascar in June Still Not Collected by Malaysia - by Elle Hunt/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Debris thought to be from the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has been languishing in storage for months awaiting collection by Malaysian authorities, prompting questions about the ongoing search effort.

Blaine Gibson, the US independent investigator who has previously discovered debris confirmed to be from MH370, found several further pieces on beaches in Madagascar in June that that he believed to be from the missing plane. 

He told the Guardian that he notified Australian and Malaysian authorities, but the items have not been picked up by Malaysia, which oversees the retrieval and analysis of evidence in the plane’s disappearance.

Six pieces of possible aircraft debris remain with authorities in Madagascar, awaiting collection, Gibson said, three months after he discovered them. There were also “possible personal effects” of the plane’s passengers, he added...."




Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Scorched Debris Could Suggest Missing MH370 Plane Suffered Fire - by Oliver Holmes and Elle Hunt/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Fragments of what appear to be burnt debris found on a beach in Madagascar could lead to a breakthrough in the case to solve how Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 vanished more than two years ago.

Discovered by American independent investigator Blaine Gibson – who has previously found other parts that were confirmed to be from MH370 – the material is the first to show signs of exposure to heat or fire.

“If they are confirmed as MH370 and if the fire was before the crash, this is significant evidence of what caused the plane’s demise,” Gibson, who has been hunting for the aircraft for more than a year, told the Guardian by phone..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Wreckage Hunter Won't Give Up Until Mystery Solved - by Rod McGuirck, Associated Press/ News/ Salon/ salon.com

"CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — The fedora, the bomber jacket and the consuming quest invite comparisons to Indiana Jones. Blaine Gibson, though, hasn’t matched the film hero’s triumph in finding the legendary chest containing the stone tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments.

Not that he didn’t try. “The Ark of the Covenant, I did not find it. However, I do believe that it’s in Ethiopia somewhere,” Gibson told AP recently.

The amateur sleuth has had far greater success finding clues from a modern mystery: the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370...."





In this Sept. 12, 2016 photo, Blaine Gibson speaks to the media during an interview about his on-going quest to find the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in Canberra, Australia. Gibson is the first person searching for the plane who's actually found any trace of it and says he won't quit gathering clues until the mystery is solved. (AP Photo/Rod McGuirk)(Credit: AP)


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Third Piece of Plane Wreckage Confirmed as MH370 Debris - by Ben Westcott, CNN/ World/ cnn.com

"(CNN)A fragment of plane wing discovered in Mauritius in May has been confirmed as coming from missing plane Malaysia Airlines MH370, Australia's Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said in a statement on Friday.

It is the third piece of debris to be definitively linked to MH370, Australia's transport minister Darren Chester said Friday.

"It does not, however, provide information that can be used to determine a specific location of the aircraft," Chester said...."





Left outboard flap trailing edge section confirmed as MH370 debris.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Officals Say Piece of Aircraft Wing Found on Mauritius Is From Missing Plane - From Associated Press/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

A piece of an aircraft wing found on the Indian Ocean island of Mauritius has been identified as belonging to missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, Malaysian and Australian officials said Friday.

The piece of wing flap was found in May and subsequently analysed by experts at the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, which is heading up the search for the plane in a remote stretch of ocean off Australia’s west coast. 

Investigators used a part number found on the debris to link it to the missing Boeing 777, the agency said in a statement.

Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai also confirmed the identification..."



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Missing MH370 Search Delayed Again By Bad Weather in Indian Ocean.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...elayed-again-bad-weather-indian-ocean-n668676.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

The Man Solving Malaysia Flight 370 - by Dave Seminara/ Adventure/ Travel/ BBC/ bbc.com

"Blaine Alan Gibson has been called a modern-day Indiana Jones – though in temperament he’s probably a lot closer to Sherlock Holmes.

Gibson, 59, made headlines around the world earlier this year after he found debris from a Boeing 777 that was later confirmed to be a piece of the infamous Malaysia flight 370 aircraft, which went missing shortly after take-off on 8 March 2014 with 239 people on board.

After diligently working to transfer the panel to the authorities, Gibson stayed on the case, conducting his own unpaid investigation in 12 countries to solve the mystery of flight 370..."





Gibson has been called a modern-day Indiana Jones (Credit: Mark Graham/Getty)


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Report on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 Narrows Search Area, If Not Mystery - by Michelle Innis/ Asia/ Pacific/ The New York Times/ nytimes.com

"SYDNEY, Australia — Extensive tracking of debris from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which disappeared more than two years ago in the southern Indian Ocean with 239 people onboard, has further narrowed the search area in a remote swath of ocean off the coast of Western Australia.

The tracking was detailed in a report from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau that was released in Canberra on Wednesday.

The report said it was likely that debris drifted from an area around the midpoint of the current search site, due west of Australia’s southwestern corner. Modeling and ocean tests showed it was unlikely the debris began to drift from farther north or south...."





 French police officers carried a piece of airplane debris on the island of Réunion last year. The debris later proved to have been from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Credit Lucas Marie/Associated Press 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Data Suggests Plane was Out of Control as It Plummeted Into Ocean - by Elle Hunt/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ the Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Australia is mounting a case for a new search effort for MH370 bolstered by “important new information” about what investigators believe to have happened at the end of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight.

A new report by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) suggests the plane was in a “high and increasing rate of descent” at the time of its final satellite communications, and that the right outboard wing flap found on Pemba island was not deployed at the time of the crash.

Both are consistent with an uncontrolled plane plummeting into the ocean in the final moments of a flight in which it was not configured for a landing or ditching.

The future of the hunt for MH370 hinges on whether this constitutes credible new evidence about the location of the wreck. A spokesman for the ATSB declined to say...."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370 Update: Search Report Delay Speculated to be 'Death Dive Theory' Cover-Up
 - by Suman Varandani/ World/ The Search for MH370/ IBT/ ibtimes.com

"The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), which is leading the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, will not release a report by international experts reviewing the strategy to find the missing plane until the search is complete, authorities said.

The move by the Australian authorities has given rise to speculation that ATSB is using a public relations cover for its decision to base the search on its “death dive” theory of an unpiloted rapid descent at the end of the flight, the Australian reported Friday. Alternately, it is also suggested that authorities may be reviewing to identify a new search area...."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Kin to Fly to Madagascar to Find Plane Debris
From DW (Deutsche Welle)/ Disasters/ dw.com

"Relatives of passengers of the crashed Boeing 777 flight are traveling to Madagascar in hopes of finding the plane's debris. The aircraft was carrying 239 passengers when it crashed into the Indian Ocean in March 2014.

Voice370, an organization advocating the grievances of family members of the air crash victims, announced on Monday that its members would travel to the island country to look for its kin.

The group, which will visit Madagascar from December 3 to 11 included four Malaysians, a French national and two Chinese nationals, dpa news agency reported. They would be accompanied by Blaine Gibson, a private investigator from the US who has been searching for the wreckage...."







Richard


----------



## Maple_Leaf

An Australian researcher suggests a windshield fire:

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2016/10/20/61262/

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2016/11/19/come-undone-mh370/

It's a plausible alternative to the standard suicide pilot theories.

BTW, I suggest Ben Sandilands' Plane Talking blog as a quality alternative to the silly speculations of the mainstream media on aviation matters.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Maple_Leaf said:


> An Australian researcher suggests a windshield fire:
> 
> https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2016/10/20/61262/
> 
> https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2016/11/19/come-undone-mh370/
> 
> It's a plausible alternative to the standard suicide pilot theories.
> 
> BTW, I suggest Ben Sandilands' Plane Talking blog as a quality alternative to the silly speculations of the mainstream media on aviation matters.


 
Hi Maple Leaf,

Thanks for posting those two links.  Interesting theories that definitely sound plausible.

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Relatives Go to Madagascar in Search of Debris
From BBC News/ Asia/ bbc.com

"Relatives of those who died on board Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 are travelling to Madagascar to lobby for the search for debris from the missing aircraft to be expanded.

They said in advance of their trip that if necessary, they would take the search into their own hands.

All debris thought to be from the plane has so far been found in east Africa..."





Relatives are pointing out that it is now more than 1,000 days since the mysterious disappearance of MH370


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Families of Flight MH370 Victims Offer Reward for Debris
By Christopher Torchia, Associated Press/ AP/ apnewsarchive.com

"ANTANANARIVO, Madagascar (AP) — Anyone who finds a piece of debris from a Malaysia Airlines plane that is believed to have crashed in the southern Indian Ocean in 2014 could receive a financial reward, relatives of those who were on the plane said Monday in Madagascar.


A group of relatives who traveled to the island nation off the southeast coast of Africa made the offer in hopes that residents will scour some coastal areas of Madagascar, where possible parts of Flight MH370 washed ashore.

Meanwhile, a Malaysian official investigating the disappearance of the Boeing 777 was in Madagascar's capital, Antananarivo, to pick up debris that has already been found and will be analyzed to see if it came from the aircraft.

"The more debris we find, the easier it will be to find where the crash happened," said Ghislain Wattrelos, a Frenchman who lost his wife and two of his three children when the plane deviated from its flight path from Malaysia to Beijing and vanished on March 8, 2014.

Malaysia, Australia and China are close to completing a deep-sea sonar search, so far unsuccessful, of 120,000 square kilometers (46,000 square miles) off Australia's southwest coast in the Indian Ocean. They say they will suspend operations if there is no new evidence that could help pinpoint the crash site. Relatives of the missing believe the search should continue.

Wattrelos, as well as two people who lost their mothers on the flight — Grace Nathan of Malaysia and Jiang Hui of China — spoke at a news conference in Antananarivo. They did not specify how much money might be given to someone who finds a confirmed piece of Flight MH370, saying it depends on the significance of the debris and the limited resources of the families.

"Everything is funded by us," said Wattrelos, a business executive...."


----------



## MULTIZ321

Possible MH370 Debris Found By Relative of Disappeared Passenger
By Aislinn Laing in Johannesburg/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ The Guardian/ the guardian.com

"A Chinese man who travelled to Madagascar in search of answers to the disappearance of his mother on Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has found a possible piece of debris from the plane during a search of the country’s beaches.

Jiang Hui, 44, is one of seven relatives who flew to the Indian Ocean island on Saturday to raise awareness of the debris that has been washing up on its beaches in ever-increasing amounts and conduct preliminary searches.

He found a small white and sand-coloured piece of board in a rocky cove at the end of Riake beach on north-eastern Île Sainte-Marie, where a significant amount of the debris thought to be from MH370 has already been discovered. “I felt excited but at the same time it was saddening,” he said. “It is a small piece and will not really be able to show what happened to the plane but I hope so much that the authorities of Malaysia, China and Australia will try to find more so they can find out.”..."





Jiang Hui, whose mother disappeared on board the Malaysia Airlines flight, examines a potential piece of debris. Photograph: Stringer/Reuters


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Investigators Are Making Their Final Sweep of MH370 Search Area
By Tom Westbrook, Reuters/ Business Insider/ businessinsider.com

"SYDNEY (Reuters) - Investigators looking for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 are making their last sweep of the search area in the Indian Ocean, Australian authorities leading the search said on Wednesday.

Flight MH370 disappeared in March 2014 with 239 passengers and crew on board, most of them Chinese, en route to Beijing from the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur. Its whereabouts have become one of the world's greatest aviation mysteries.

Flight MH370 disappeared in March 2014 with 239 passengers and crew on board, most of them Chinese, en route to Beijing from the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur. Its whereabouts have become one of the world's greatest aviation mysteries...."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370 Families Urge Mauritians To Be On Alert for Debris
From Reuters/ World News/ reuters.com


"Relatives of victims of a Malaysian Airlines flight that vanished in 2014 urged the people of Mauritius on Wednesday to be on lookout for plane debris that might wash ashore in the Indian Ocean island state and hand in anything to authorities.

Flight MH370, carrying 239 passengers and crew, disappeared on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, sparking an international search in the southern Indian Ocean that continues today.

"We hope more people will find more debris which could help to determine the location of the wreckage," Hui Jiang, who lost his mother on the plane, told a news conference in the Mauritian capital Port Louis...."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Plane 'Not Likely to Be in Search Area', Say Investigators
From BBC News/ World/ Australia/ bbc.com

"Experts leading the hunt for Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 have said the plane is unlikely to be found in the current search area, and recommended looking further north.

No trace of the plane has been recovered in the southern Indian Ocean, after more than two years of searching.

MH370 disappeared while flying to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur with 239 people on board in 2014.

With the search to end soon, Australian officials say it will not be extended...."





AP
Image caption The search in the Indian Ocean began immediately after the disappearance of MH370 in March 2014


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Missing Malaysian Aircraft Is Likely Outside the Search Area, Report Finds
By Geoff Brumfiel/ International/ The Two-Way: Breaking News from NPR/ National Public Radio/ npr.org

"The wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is probably outside the stretch of ocean that international search ships have scoured for the past two years, a "first principles review" has concluded.

The findings, based on a fresh analysis of satellite data, recovered debris and other information, suggest that the plane may in fact lie within a roughly 10,000-square-mile (25,000-square-km) patch to the north of the existing search area.

"The experts concluded that, if this area were to be searched, prospective areas for locating the aircraft wreckage, based on all the analysis to date, would be exhausted," the report states. But it's unclear whether the search will be extended to cover the additional area...."





The newly identified area of interest in the Indian Ocean (orange) lies to the north of the current one (purple).

ATSB






A piece of engine cowling covered in barnacles recovered from a South African beach. Debris such as this has led to a revision of the search area.

ATSB


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Families Say Search Suspension for Malaysian Plan 'Irresponsible'
From BBC News/ Asia/ News/ bbc.com

Search for MH370 suspended.





Relatives want the search to continue and be expanded 

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Search for Vanished Malaysian Airliner Suspended
From BBC News/ Malaysian Digest/ Malaysiandigest.com

"The search for the Malaysian airliner that disappeared three years ago with 239 on board has been suspended.

In a statement, Australia, Malaysia and China said the decision was taken with "sadness" after a fruitless search in more than 120,000 sq km (46,300 miles) of the Indian Ocean.

Families of the victims called it an "irresponsible" move that must be reconsidered.

Flight MH370 vanished en route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur in 2014...."





Pic:BBC

Richard


----------



## Passepartout

MULTIZ321 said:


> MH370: Search for Vanished Malaysian Airliner Suspended
> From BBC News/ Malaysian Digest/ Malaysiandigest.com
> 
> "The search for the Malaysian airliner that disappeared three years ago with 239 on board has been suspended.


Well, That's that. This mystery can take it's place alongside Amelia Earhart's disappearance and many many other ships and planes that have found their way to the ocean's floor.


----------



## pedro47

This is a very sad ending to a story, I just pray that someone will find something so the loved one left and can have closure.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Australia Defends End of MH370 Hunt; Investigation Continues
By Kristen Gelineau, Associated Press/ hosted.ap.org

"SYDNEY (AP) -- Australia's Transport Minister Darren Chester said on Wednesday that experts will continue analyzing data and scrutinizing debris washing ashore from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in a bid to narrow down where it crashed in the southern Indian Ocean. But Chester declined to specify what kind of breakthrough would convince officials to resume the search for the missing airliner that was suspended this week after almost three fruitless years of searching.

"When we get some information or data or a breakthrough that leads us to a specific location, the experts will know it when they see it," he told reporters in the southern city of Melbourne.

The sonar seabed search ended on Tuesday, possibly forever - not because investigators have run out of leads, but because the countries involved in the expensive and vast deep-sea hunt have shown no appetite for opening another big phase...."





AP Photo/Joshua Paul


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370: Another Search Still Possible, Australia Says
From BBC News/ Asia/ bbc.com

"Australia's transport minister has said the search for flight MH370 could resume in the future, but only if "credible new evidence" emerges.

Australia, Malaysia and China ended the Indian Ocean hunt on Tuesday, almost three years after the jet went missing.

Darren Chester on Wednesday said Australia did not rule out another search, but he stressed he did not want to provide false hope.

He also defended the suspension following criticism from relatives...."





A massive search operation was launched after the plane vanished 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search: Does Debris Solve the Mystery?
From BBC News/ Asia/ August 6, 2015/ bbc.com

"Malaysian authorities have said an aeroplane part found on the island of Reunion in the Indian Ocean did come from missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

International investigators were more cautious, however, saying only there were "very strong" indications this was the case..."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: The Key Pieces of Debris Found By the Public
From BBC News/ Asia/ bbc.com

"The underwater search for flight MH370 has ended, with no trace of the Malaysian Airlines plane being found.

While the search has been going on, more than 20 pieces of possible debris have been found by members of the public, on the African coast and islands in the Indian Ocean. Most have been handed in to French authorities or the Australian Transport Safety Bureau which has been co-ordinating the search (ATSB).

So far only a handful have been confirmed as "definitely" or "almost certainly" from the doomed plane..."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370 'Made Rapid Descent'
From BBC News/World-Asia/ bbc.com

"Flight MH370 most likely made a rapid and uncontrolled descent into the Indian Ocean, a new report says.

The Boeing 777 disappeared while flying to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur with 239 people on board in March 2014.

Despite an extensive search no trace of the plane's fuselage has been found.

But the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said analysis of two recovered wing flaps showed they were not in the landing position when the plane went down in the Indian Ocean.

Satellite data also indicated a "high and increasing rate of descent", said the report..."





Australian experts have examined this wing flap which was found off the Tanzanian coast 


Richard


----------



## FLDVCFamily

They should keep looking until they find it IMHO. If it were my loved one on that plane I'd want nothing less. No way should the relatives have to fund their own search.


----------



## DeniseM

Not to be indelicate, but any physical remains left at this point are going to be very minimal.  A fortune has already been spent on the search, not to mention the commitment of other resources.  If my family member was involved I would have been ready to let it go - long ago.  At this point, I would prefer to see the resources used for living people.

However, I understand that some of the families involved may belong to faiths that require the proper internment of remains, and I get that too.


----------



## Passepartout

FLDVCFamily said:


> They should keep looking until they find it IMHO. If it were my loved one on that plane I'd want nothing less. No way should the relatives have to fund their own search.


Who is this 'they'? I can certainly sympathize with family members wanting closure, but in reality, Australian, Indonesian (where the flight originated), Chinese (where it was headed), Japanese, and other countries have spent millions and millions on this search. Unless and until some substantive evidence appears that provides a more exact location than 'It's in the Indian Ocean' give it a rest. Authorities have said that when and if such evidence appears, the search  an be re-started, but to continue just sonar scanning one of the world's biggest spaces makes a needle-in-a-haystack search, easy. The cost of the search is clearly beyond the resources of the families of the lost, but why should the rest of the world's population have to fund it? Over the centuries, humankind has lost people in every form of conveyance, on land, sea, and in the air. Stuff happens. Let it go. This will be one of this generations' great mysteries. So it goes.

Jim


----------



## DaveNV

I agree with Jim. ^^^  It's not as if they haven't TRIED to find things - for nearly three years.  Enough, already. Kind of like the MIA from war zones, who will never be returned.  It's time to pay your respects, say your goodbyes, and move on with things.

Dave


----------



## FLDVCFamily

DeniseM said:


> Not to be indelicate, but any physical remains left at this point are going to be very minimal.  A fortune has already been spent on the search, not to mention the commitment of other resources.  If my family member was involved I would have been ready to let it go - long ago.  At this point, I would prefer to see the resources used for living people.
> 
> However, I understand that some of the families involved may belong to faiths that require the proper internment of remains, and I get that too.



That's true about the remains, but I don't think I could go on thinking about my child, husband, mother, father, etc. lost on the bottom of the ocean somewhere  I get that it's a needle in a haystack, but I 100% understand why the relatives want the needle in a haystack search continued. It's about answers. They want to know what happened, and some absolutely need that for closure. I hope they find some reason to restart the search in the future.


----------



## MULTIZ321

It's Getting Harder For a Plane to Vanish and Not Be Found
By Joan Lowy/ Associated Press/ McClatchy DC/ mcclatchydc.com

"Washington - Nearly three years after a Malaysian airliner vanished, it's still possible, if unlikely, for a plane to disappear. But that's changing with new satellites that will soon allow flights to be tracked in real time over oceans.

New international safety standards also begin to kick-in beginning next year, although the deadline for airlines to meet most of the standards is still four years away. Even then, it could be decades before the changes permeate the entire global airline fleet because some of the requirements apply only to newly manufactured planes...."





FILE - In this March 31, 2014 file photo, HMAS Success scans the southern Indian Ocean, near the coast of Western Australia, as a Royal New Zealand Air Force P3 Orion flies over, while searching for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370. Nearly three years after a Malaysian airliner vanished, it’s still possible, if unlikely, for a plane to disappear. But that’s changing with new satellites that will soon allow flights to be tracked in real time over oceans. Rob Griffith, File AP Photo

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Search for Missing Plane Ends But a Grieving Husband's Journey Goes On
By Moni Basu/ World/ CNN/ cnn.com

"(CNN)This time, the terrible news came in an email.

At least it wasn't a text, like the hasty, solitary line that exploded K.S. Narendran's world almost three years ago: "We deeply regret that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived." 

His wife of 25 years, Chandrika Sharma, was one of the 239 people aboard the Malaysia Airlines flight that disappeared after takeoff from Kuala Lumpur en route to Beijing on March 8, 2014.
On Tuesday, Narendran learned the search for the missing plane had been suspended. He saw the email a little before noon at his home in the southeastern Indian city of Chennai.
"An email is an improvement over an SMS message," he posted on Facebook. "So, small mercies in an otherwise difficult period."...."





K.S. Narendran is no closer to knowing what happened to his wife, a passenger on MH370.



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Investigators Describe 'Likely' Crash Site As Searchers for MH370 Return to Port
From Deutsche Welle/ DW/ dw.com

"Missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 is probably located north of the official search area in the Indian Ocean, the head of the Australian department leading the suspended hunt says. Investigators want to keep looking...."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Transport Ministers Defend Suspending Search For Missing Plane
By Elle Hunt and Agencies/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"As the search vessel Fugro Equator returned to port for the last time, officials from Australia, Malaysia and China denied that the effort had been a failure.

Transport ministers for Australia, Malaysia and China have defended their decision to suspend the search for the the missing Malaysia Airlines plane MH370 in the Indian Ocean.

The AU$160m (£97.5m) deep-sea sonar search off Australia’s west coast was called off last week after no trace of the plane was found in an 120,000sq km (46,000sq mile) area.

The Fugro Equator search vessel returned to port in Perth for the last time on Monday, where it was was met by the three transport ministers.

But the Australian transport minister, Darren Chester, denied that the effort had been a failure, saying crews had managed to eliminate the search zone as a possible crash site.

 He and the Chinese transport minister, Li Xiaopeng‎, thanked officials for their efforts.





Malaysian transport minister Liow Tiong Lai in front of the Fugro Equator, one of the vessels involved in the MH370 underwater search. Photograph: Richard Wainwright/EPA


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Airllines Will Be First To Monitor Its Planes By Satellite
By David Lumb/ Latest in Gear/  Engadget/ engadget.com

"Three years ago, Malaysia Airlines flight 370 disappeared over the South China Sea, starting an multinational hunt for the plane. Despite rumors of a sophisticated hijacking or seizure of the aircraft by a foreign government, it was presumed lost in the ocean. To prevent another disaster over open water, the UN pushed for particular plane signal system that can be tracked from the ground or by satellite. But Malaysia Airlines just struck a deal to use a network of the latter that will enable them to monitor their planes anywhere they fly on earth -- including over the polar ice caps...."





Olivia Harris / Reuters


Richard


----------



## Talent312

This thread was started by "Clemson Fan," who hasn't posted on TUG since January.
... It looks like he's disappeared, too. <again>
.


----------



## WalnutBaron

Maybe he was so overwhelmed by Clemson's national championship on January 9 that he has been on life support ever since.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Drift Analysis Says MH370 Likely Crashed North of Search
The Associated Press (Rod McGuirk)/ News/ Bloomberg/ bloomberg.com

"Canberra, Australia (AP) -- Analysis of a genuine Boeing 777 wing flap has reaffirmed experts' opinion that a missing Malaysian airliner most likely crashed north of an abandoned search area in the Indian Ocean, officials said Friday.

The $160 million search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 ended in January after a deep-sea sonar scan of 120,000 square kilometers (46,000 square miles) of ocean floor southwest of Australia failed to find any trace of the Boeing 777 that vanished with 239 people aboard on March 8, 2014. But research has continued in an effort to refine a possible new search.

Australian government oceanographers had obtained a wing flap of the same model as the original and studied how that part drifted in the ocean, the Australian Transport safety Bureau said in a statement. Previous drift modeling used inexact replicas...."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: U.S. Firm Ocean Infinity Offers to Hunt for Missing Jet
By Associated Press/ News/ Missing Jet/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com

"CANBERRA, Australia — An American seabed exploration company said Friday it has offered to take the financial risk of conducting a renewed search for missing Malaysia Airlines MH370.

Ocean Infinity's offer comes after victims' families have been urging the Malaysian government to agree to a private-sector hunt for Flight 370's wreckage.

After nearly three years, Malaysia, Australia and China suspended a 46,000 square-mile search of remote seabed in the southern Indian Ocean. They failed to find any trace of the Boeing 777.

Ocean Infinity said it remained hopeful Malaysia would accept its offer to continue the search using a team of advanced, fast-moving deep-sea drones fitted with sonar equipment..."





The missing Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 that went missing in March 2014 flies over Poland around a month earlier. Tomasz Bartkowiak / Reuters


Richard


----------



## pedro47

WalnutBaron said:


> Maybe he was so overwhelmed by Clemson's national championship on January 9 that he has been on life support ever since.



The latest is that other University just recruited Elliott from the Dallas Cowboys for their first six (6) games this season.  I am joking guys. 
Both programs are outstanding.


----------



## MULTIZ321

New Satellite Photos Show Objects On Water Near Potential MH370 Crash Site
By Ben Westcott, CNN/ Asia/ cnn.com

"(CNN)Newly-discovered satellite photos may have given scientists a fresh clue as to the location of Malaysian Airlines 370, one of the world's most famous aviation mysteries.

The four satellite photos, shot less than a month after MH370 disappeared in 2014, show 70 objects drifting on the ocean in the vicinity of the predicted crash zone, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said Wednesday.
"(Geoscience Australia) analysis classified 12 objects as 'probably man-made' ... but cannot determine whether they are aircraft debris," the report said...."




Four satellite photos taken shortly after MH370 vanished in March 2014.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: New Crash Site Identified For Missing Boeing 777 Plane, Say Scientists
By Simon Calder, Travel Correspondent/ Travel/ News & Advice/ Independent/ independent.co.uk

"Leading Australian scientists have calculated the crash site 'with unprecedented precision and certainty'.

The crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 is a lonely spot in the southern Indian Ocean, 1,250 miles due west of the southern tip of Western Australia and 2,000 miles south-south-west of Kuala Lumpur - the place where the 239 people on board were last seen alive.

Seven months to the day after the search for the doomed Boeing 777 was officially called off, leading Australian scientists have calculated “with unprecedented precision and certainty” that the plane crashed at a point 35.6 degrees south of the Equator and 92.8 degrees east of Greenwich...."





Narrowing down: the white line in the centre of the map shows possible locations for the crash site of MH370, just outside the search area marked by the magenta line / CSIRO


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370'S Location An 'Almost Inconceivable' Mystery - Final Report
By Christopher Knaus/World/  Malaysia Airlines/ Flight MH370/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Investigators say re-analysis of satellite imagery has narrowed likely resting place to area of less than 25,000 sq km.

Australian investigators have delivered their final report on the disappearance of Malaysia airlines flight MH370, saying the inability to bring closure for victims’ families was a “great tragedy” and “almost inconceivable” in the modern age.

It has now been three-and-a-half years since MH370 and its 239 passengers and crew were lost during a journey between Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Despite the largest and most expensive underwater search in history, the plane’s location has remained a mystery.

On Tuesday, the agency that coordinated the underwater search, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), released its final report into MH370’s disappearance.

The report gives significant detail on the search but offers little in the way of new evidence about the plane’s location. The search is only likely be reopened if credible new evidence emerges.

“It remains a great tragedy and we wish that we could have brought complete closure to the bereaved,” the ATSB chief commissioner, Greg Hood, said. “I hope, however, that they can take some solace in the fact that we did all we could do to find answers.”

The operation to find MH370 was suspended in January, after 1,046 days, causing anger among the relatives of some victims...."





Malaysia Airlines’ aircraft in Kuala Lumpur. Australian investigators’ final report says the failure to provide closure to families has been a ‘great tragedy’. Photograph: Manan Vatsyayana/AFP/Getty Images


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: The Conspiracy Theories
By Edouard Morton/ Malaysia Airlines Flight 370/ South China Morning Post/ scmp.com

"Suicide, hijack ... aliens?

The mystery surrounding flight MH370 has stirred up endless conspiracy theories from armchair investigators, aviation enthusiasts and industry experts...."

Be sure to continue to scroll and read the additional article by Florence De Changy - titled "The Gaping Holes in the Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 Search Report"

Very interesting read.





The towed pinger locator on the deck of the Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield, in the Indian Ocean. Photo: EPA


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Maylaysia In Talks With US Firm to Restart Plane Search
From BBC News/ bbc.com

"Malaysia is negotiating a "no find-no fee" deal with a US company to renew the search for downed flight MH370.

The government announced in a statement that it was in talks with Texas-based salvage firm Ocean Infinity.

If the deal goes ahead, Ocean Infinity will foot the bill and recoup costs only if it finds the missing plane.

The disappearance of MH370 remains shrouded in mystery. The flight fell off radar on 8 March 2014 en route to Beijing, with 239 people on board...."





Getty Images
Image caption A search operation that went on for almost three years failed to find the wreckage 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370 Didn't Just "Disappear": Historian Suggests Mystery Was First Case of Remote Skyjacking and 'was Diverted to Prevent Delivery
of Secret Cargo to China'
By Claire Carter/ News/ World/ MSN/ msn.com

"It is a mystery that has yet to be solved.

How did a plane carrying 239 passengers on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, suddenly and inexplicably vanish?

All that has been found so far of the ill-fated flight MH370 is a handful of parts, such as part of a wing, washed up on remote islands across the world.

Data shows the strange path taken by the Malaysia Airlines plane as it suddenly jerked from west to east, away from its destination of China on March 8, 2014 - but no one has been able to explain why it took this strange path, or where it lay now.

Large scale underwater searches focused on an area in the Indian Ocean, close to Australia, where the plane was originally believed to have crash landed into the sea.

But after little success, these were called off after two years. The plane, nor any trace of the people aboard it and families are still desperately campaigning for answers about what has happened to their loved ones lost in the sky.

Norman Davies, a historian and author, believes one possibility could be that the plane, a Boeing 777, could have been glided for several hours and landed in Antarctica - the perfect hiding spot, where it could be buried beneath the ice sheet for decades.

Outlandish theories have abounded about what could have happened to the plane - from an alien take over to a hijack that involved Vladimir Putin, to claims that rapper Pitbull predicted it would crash years before.

But the technology on board, designed to stop a repeat of the 9/11 terror attack by allowing it to be controlled on land, could mean the disappearance of MH370 may be due to the first recorded case of a remote skyjacking...."





© Provided by Trinity Mirror Shared Services Limited Credits: ITV


Richard


----------



## x3 skier

From the article, the “expert” says,  "I could of course be completely wrong."

I completely agree with that observation.

Cheers


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Search For Malaysia Plane Resumes As Ship Leaves South Africa
From Australian Associated Press/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"US seabed exploration company Ocean Infinity charters Norwegian ship under ‘no find, no fee’ arrangement with Malaysia.

The search for MH370 has resumed after a research ship left South Africa, bound for a search area off the coast of Perth.

The Malaysian government has enlisted the US seabed exploration company Ocean Infinity, which chartered Norwegian ship Seabed Constructor, due to arrive in Perth on 7 February after it set sail from Port Durban on Tuesday.

The Malaysian Airlines flight disappeared on 8 March 2014, en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, with 239 people on board, sparking the largest search in aviation history.

Its disappearance is one of the world’s greatest aviation mysteries and sparked the largest ever search, costing about $200m.

The Australian-led search for the aircraft was suspended in January 2017, much to the anguish of distraught relatives.

At the time it was suspended, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau released findings from international and CSIRO scientists that identified a smaller 25,000sq km area with “a high probability” that it contained the aircraft.

Ocean Infinity, which entered into a “no find, no fee” arrangement with Malaysia in October 2017, will focus its search on that part of the ocean floor..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

A Fantastical Ship Has Set Out to Seek Malaysian Airlines Flight 370
From Science and Technology/ The Search for MH370/ The Economist/ economist.com

"ON JANUARY 2nd, at 8pm local time, a strange vessel weighed anchor and sailed out of the Port of Durban, in South Africa, heading east. Her hull was orange. Her superstructure bristled with antennas—some long and pointy, some sleek, white and domed. Her stern sported a crane and also a strange gantry, known to her crew as the “stinger”. Her bow looked so huge and ungainly as to be on the point of tipping her, nose first, into the depths. And below deck, invisible to the casual observer, she carried eight autonomous submarines called HUGINs, each six metres long, weighing 1,800kg, and containing a titanium sphere to protect the sensitive electronics therein from the pressure of the ocean’s depths.

The strange ship’s name is _Seabed Constructor_. She is a Norwegian research vessel, built in 2014 and owned by Swire Seabed, a dredging and surveying firm in Bergen. At the moment, though, she is leased to Ocean Infinity, a company based in Houston, Texas. And the task Ocean Infinity has hired her for is a hard one: to find whatever is left of flight MH370, a Boeing 777-200ER that left Kuala Lumpur on March 8th 2014 with 239 people on board and vanished over the Indian Ocean...."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Where is Malaysia Airlines Flight 370? Hunt Resumes for Plane's Wreckage
From Associated Press/ News/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com

"KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — Malaysia's government said Saturday that it has approved a new attempt to find the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, nearly four years after the plane's disappearance sparked one of aviation's biggest mysteries.

The U.S.-based company Ocean Infinity dispatched a search vessel this past week to look in the southern Indian Ocean for debris from the plane, which disappeared March 8, 2014, on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 227 passengers and 12 crew members.

The governments of Malaysia, China and Australia called off the nearly three-year official search last January without solving the mystery. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau's final report on the search conceded that authorities were no closer to knowing the reasons for the Boeing 777's disappearance, or its exact location.

"The basis of the offer from Ocean Infinity is based on 'no cure, no fee,'" Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said Saturday, meaning that payment will be made only if the company finds the wreckage.

"That means they are willing to search the area of 9,653 square miles pointed out by the expert group near the Australian waters," he said...."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Another Search Begins for Long-Missing Malaysian Airliner 
By Richard C. Paddock/ Asia Pacific/ World/ The New York Times/ nytimes.com

"BANGKOK — The government of Malaysia and an American ocean exploration company began a new effort on Wednesday to solve one of history’s greatest aviation mysteries: the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 nearly four years ago.

Ocean Infinity, a Houston-based company, could receive as much as $70 million if it finds the plane’s debris field or two data recorders within 90 days, Transportation Minister Liow Tiong Lai said Wednesday at a signing ceremony with company officials at Putrajaya, Malaysia’s federal administrative center.

But under the agreement, the company will receive nothing if it does not find the missing Boeing 777, which disappeared over the Indian Ocean on March 8, 2014, with 239 people aboard. 

Mr. Liow called it a “no cure, no fee” agreement.

Under the contract, Malaysia will pay Ocean Infinity $20 million if it finds the wreckage or data recorders early in the search. The potential fee rises in staggered amounts to as much as $70 million, depending on how large an area the vessel searches before locating the plane.

The Seabed Constructor, a ship operated by the company, left Durban, South Africa, a week ago to get in position for the search. Weather can be harsh in the Indian Ocean, and the Southern Hemisphere’s summer, which is nearly half over, offers the best search conditions...."





An undated photo showing the launch of one of Ocean Infinity’s underwater search vehicles. The company could receive as much as $70 million if it finds Flight 370’s debris field or two data recorders within 90 days. Credit Ocean Infinity


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Search Ship Disappears for 3 Days
By Naaman Zhou/ Malaysia Airlines/ Flight MH370/World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Seabed Constructor, which has been looking for missing plane, turned off its monitoring system.

The ship searching for Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 disappeared from tracking screens for three days after it turned off its own satellite monitoring system with no explanation.

At the beginning of January, the US-based company Ocean Infinity was hired by the Malaysian government to search for the missing plane, which disappeared in March 2014.

Its ship, Seabed Constructor, began the search on 22 January, but on Thursday, after only 10 days, it turned off its Automatic Identification System (AIS) with no explanation...."





Map of the new MH370 search area, with the first week’s search in orange. It contains the CSIRO priority area, where no contact with MH370 was made. Photograph: Supplied/Malaysian government


Richard


----------



## pedro47

This was the last chance to find this plane in my humble opinion.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Report: Plane Not Yet Found But No Word on Search Ship Disappearance
By Naaman Zhou/ Malaysia Airlines/ Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

Malaysian officials have confirmed missing flight MH370 has not been found after a second week of searching, but questions persist about a three-day period during which the designated search ship disappeared from satellite tracking.

"On Tuesday the Malaysian government released its second weekly update in the renewed search, which confirmed no contact had been made with the wreck of the plane.

But officials said nothing about a three-day period between 1 and 4 February when the search ship turned off its satellite tracking without explanation, sparking confusion and conspiracy theories...."






The points of interest investigated by Seabed Constructor in the second week of its search for MH370. Photograph: Malaysian government


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

pedro47 said:


> This was the last chance to find this plane in my humble opinion.


Hi Pedro,

The Search is not over. Seabed Constructor is returning from Freemantle to the seach site later in February.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Mystery Brings No Change
By Angus Whitley/ Orlando Sentinel/ USA/ Press Reader/ pressreader.com

"Key Tracking Requirements Still Haven't Taken Effect..."


Richard


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## Passepartout

I wonder if bits are still washing up on Indian Ocean beaches?


----------



## Talent312

IMHO, someone may stumble across it in 60-80 years or so.

But according to Star Trek: Voyager, Amelia Earhart was abducted by aliens.
So why not this plane? I'm sure Mulder & Scully (X-Files) would agree.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search to End in June as Families Mark 4-Year Anniversary
From SBS News/ sbs.com.au






The American seabed exploration firm Ocean Infinity chartered Swire Seabed’s subsea vessel Seabed Constructor.
AAP


Richard


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## winger

A somber video


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## MULTIZ321

Man Claims to Have Found Missing MH370 Plane on 'Google Earth'
By Kate Buck/ News/ World/ Metro/ metro.co.uk

*"An amateur crash investigator claims to have found the remains of missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 while looking on Google Earth.*

Peter McMahon, 64, an Australian mechanical engineer who says he has worked in crash investigations for more than 25 years, insists he has discovered the missing aircraft.

Flight MH370 vanished on March 8, 2014 during its journey from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with all 239 passengers and crew on board declared dead.

Australia, China and Malaysia ended an unsuccessful £115million search in January 2017.

The aircraft has yet to be discovered and the cause of its disappearance is still unknown.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Could this be missing flight MH370? (Picture: Google)


Richard


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## x3 skier

Still “floating” after 4 years? While “full of bullet holes”? What next, it was dropped there last week from an Alien Spaceship?

Cheers


----------



## MULTIZ321

No Sign of MH370 Found in New Scan of Indian Ocean Floor
By Trevor Marshallsea/ AP News/ apnews.com

SYDNEY (AP) — A new scan of the Indian Ocean floor for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 has searched nearly 80,000 square kilometers (31,000 square miles) since January without finding any sign of the wreckage. But the company looking for the plane, which has been missing for more than four years, said it is still determined to find it.

This comes despite earlier hopes that a 25,000-square-kilometer (9,650-square-mile) area most likely to contain the missing aircraft had been identified.

Ocean Infinity, the American technology company conducting the latest search, said in an update Monday that it had scanned up to 1,300 square kilometers (500 square miles) per day since launching its mission far off the west coast of Australia in late January. It has searched both inside and outside an area identified by Australian authorities.

“Whilst it’s disappointing there has been no sign of MH370 in the Australian Transport Safety Bureau search area and further north, there is still some search time remaining,” Ocean Infinity chief executive officer Oliver Plunkett said in a statement.

“Everyone at Ocean Infinity remains absolutely determined for the remainder of the search,” he said...."







Richard


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## DaveNV

Are they expecting to find the aircraft intact?  I'd think after finding a piece of the wing clear across the ocean, that anything remaining of the aircraft would long ago have disintegrated and been moved all over the place, due to ocean currents and such. 

Dave


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## MULTIZ321

Mathematician Theorizes What Happened to MH370
From Texas A&M Today/ today.tamu.edu

Note this article is from June 8, 2015

"The plight of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 (MH370) is one of the biggest mysteries in aviation history, but an interdisciplinary research team led by a Texas A&M University at Qatar math professor has theorized the ill-fated plane plunged vertically into the southern Indian Ocean in March 2014.

The researchers’ computer simulations lead to the forensic assertion that a 90-degree nosedive explains the lack of debris or spilled oil in the water near where the plane is presumed to have crashed. The research was the cover story in the April 2015 issue of _Notices_ of the American Mathematical Society (see the team’s paper here.)

Dr. Goong Chen is an applied mathematician who teaches and researches at Texas A&M at Qatar and Texas A&M University’s main campus in College Station, Texas, USA. He led the interdisciplinary team of collaborators from Texas A&M, Penn State, Virginia Tech, MIT and the Qatar Environment and Energy Research Institute (QEERI) in simulating and modeling what might have happened to the plane. His research is supported by the QNRF National Priority Research Project Grant #5-674-1-114.

The researchers used applied mathematics and computational fluid dynamics to conduct numerical simulations on the RAAD Supercomputer at Texas A&M at Qatar of a Boeing 777 plunging into the ocean, a so-called “water entry” problem in applied mathematics and aerospace engineering. The team simulated five different scenarios, including a gliding water entry similar to the one Capt. Chesley B. “Sully” Sullenberger skillfully performed when US Airways flight 1549 landed in the middle of New York City’s Hudson River, a feat that’s referred to as “the miracle on the Hudson.”...."








Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Two 19th-Century Shipwrecks Discovered During Search for Flight MH370
By Brigit Katz/ Smart News: Keeping You Current/ Smithsonian.com/ smithsonianmag.com

"For the past four years, experts have been searching the Indian Ocean in the hopes of finding Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, which vanished under mysterious circumstances in March of 2014. With the exception of several pieces of debris, these searches have not been able to locate the plane. But during the hunt for MH370, researchers discovered the remains of two shipwrecks that went missing in the 19th century, as the _Associated Press _reports.

The submerged ships were found some 1,430 miles off the coast of Australia in 2015, during a nearly three-year, state-sponsored search by Malaysia, China and Australia. (That initiative came to an end last year, but the Malaysian government has since approved a new attempt by a private American-based company to locate MH370.) Last week, the Western Australian Museum announced that it had identified the ships as 19th-century merchant vessels, which had been transporting cargo holds of coal when they sank to the ocean floor.

Museum experts were approached by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau to review sonar and video data collected during the search for MH370. Because records of ships lost in the area during the 1800s are incomplete, the museum was not able to conclusively determine the identity of the shipwrecks. But Ross Anderson, the museum’s curator of maritime archaeology, reveals in a press release that experts “can narrow the possibilities to some prime candidates based on available information from predominantly British shipping sources.”...."





Shipwrecks discovered off the coast of Western Australia. (Australian Transport Safety Bureau)


Richard


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## T_R_Oglodyte

How MH370 pilot avoided being detected by radar


----------



## Panina

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> How MH370 pilot avoided being detected by radar


My heart still is heavy for the families that have not gotten closure.  This deliberate act still doesn’t answer why?


----------



## MULTIZ321

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> How MH370 pilot avoided being detected by radar


 
And to piggyback on the article that Steve posted - here is another article: MH370 Captain 'Deliberately Evaded Radar' During Final Moments of Doomed Flight
                                                                                                                By Rob Crilly, New York/ News/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"Aviation experts believe they may have solved the mystery of the disappearance of flight MH370, saying the 239 passengers and crew were the victims of a deliberate, criminal act carried out by the plane’s captain.

The fate of the Boeing 777 has mystified investigators ever since it went missing en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing in 2014.

However, a panel of experts assembled for the Australian TV programme 60 Minutes says the evidence suggests Captain Zaharie Amad Shah executed a careful series of manoeuvres to evade detection and ensure the plane disappeared in a remote location.

Martin Dolan, former head of the Australia Transport Safety Bureau, who led the two-year search for the missing plane, said: “This was planned, this was deliberate, and it was done over an extended period of time.”

The plane was presumed to have flown on autopilot before running out of fuel and plunging into the southern Indian Ocean. However, the wreckage has never been found and the search was suspended in January last year...."





Zaharie Amad Shah was the captain of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 when it disappeared in 2014

Richard


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## ace2000

Gee, all of sudden the article I posted in post #4 of this thread has a whole new light (I also posted the link to the article below - and it's still available).  Based off of the clues provided in the recent articles, it really took them all these years to come up with that analysis???  Don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but it does appear that someone's hiding something here.  I've suspected the pilot from the beginning.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html


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## visor

ace2000 said:


> Gee, all of sudden the article I posted in post #4 of this thread has a whole new light (I also posted the link to the article below - and it's still available).  Based off of the clues provided in the recent articles, it really took them all these years to come up with that analysis???  Don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but it does appear that someone's hiding something here.  I've suspected the pilot from the beginning.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html


Wow... So sad, considering now that Mahathir has just recently few days ago regained power and will likely pass on control to Ibrahim. 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## T_R_Oglodyte

Once the Goodfellow "the pilots became incapacitated while navigating toward an emergency landing" theory and the spirited away to a hidden airport theory were shown untenable, almost everyone has accepted that it was a suicide.  The only that seemed to be in the air was whether the plane was actively being flown until it went down or whether everyone on board was dead or unconscious as it flew.

So the real "new" item in the story is the probability that the plane was being piloted.  That expands the potential crash area.  It also means there's a possibility of a softer landing, which would leave more of the plane intact.


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## ace2000

visor said:


> Wow... So sad, considering now that Mahathir has just recently few days ago regained power and will likely pass on control to Ibrahim.



Interesting!


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## VacationForever

This theory that it was intentional had long been circulated.  There is an elephant in the room, they have not established why the pilot was suicidal.  He was not in financial trouble, no marital issues, not part of a terrorist group, nothing.  I don't buy it that it was suicide-murder.  The airplane manufacturer obviously likes the suicide theory over a faulty plane issue.


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## ace2000

VacationForever said:


> This theory that it was intentional had long been circulated.  There is an elephant in the room, they have not established why the pilot was suicidal.  He was not in financial trouble, no marital issues, not part of a terrorist group, nothing.  I don't buy it that it was suicide-murder.  The airplane manufacturer obviously likes the suicide theory over a faulty plane issue.



It has been widely circulated that he actually did have marital issues.  And he was also "fanatical" about his support for the government opposition party at the time.  There are definitely several clues to motives for a suicide-murder out there, including the fact that the authorities were able to tell that he had been practicing a similar run on his home aircraft simulator just prior to the flight.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

VacationForever said:


> This theory that it was intentional had long been circulated.  There is an elephant in the room, they have not established why the pilot was suicidal.  He was not in financial trouble, no marital issues, not part of a terrorist group, nothing.  I don't buy it that it was suicide-murder.  The airplane manufacturer obviously likes the suicide theory over a faulty plane issue.


Many suicides occur with no apparent reason.

Lots of people live with near-debilitating mental health issues that they have learned to effectively conceal.


----------



## VacationForever

ace2000 said:


> It has been widely circulated that he actually did have marital issues.  And he was also "fanatical" about his support for the government opposition party at the time.  There are definitely several clues to motives for a suicide-murder out there, including the fact that the authorities were able to tell that he had been practicing a similar run on his home aircraft simulator just prior to the flight.


I went back and did a search and found what you have posted here.  So it is possible it was a deliberate act by the pilot.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

VacationForever said:


> I went back and did a search and found what you have posted here.  So it is possible it was a deliberate act by the pilot.


Even without that information, pilot suicide-murder seems far more plausible than faulty plane. The plane didn't just drop out of the sky; it flew in a controlled manner. Unless you can come up with a good reason why a plane malfunction would cause the plane to navigate through a precise set of navigational waypoints, fly along the border in two countries in a manner that hides the plane from air trafffic control, as well as other items.

If course, there could be a mechanical explanation for all of those.  But then you wind up compounding assumptions on top of assumptions.  Occam's Razor says to prefer the simplest explanation that is consistent with the facts.  Pilot suicide-murder meets that test, regardless of any information on mental health.  When you add in those elements, that makes the arguement even more compelling.


----------



## visor

ace2000 said:


> Interesting!


https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/10/asia/mahathir-malaysia-election-intl/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/11/asia/malaysia-mahathir-anwar-ibrahim-pardon-intl/index.html

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Malaysia Airlines' Captain Deliberately Crashed Plane in Murder-Suicide, Investigators Conclude
By Simon Calder/ Travel/ Independent/ independent.co.uk

"Leading air safety experts have concluded that the captain of flight MH370 deliberately crashed the plane. They include the man who spent two years heading the search, who now says Captain Zaharie Amad Shah carefully planned a murder-suicide mission.

The Malaysia Airlines jet was on a routine flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on 8 March 2014 with 239 people on board when it disappeared.

Analysis of satellite data indicates it ran out of fuel and crashed in the Indian Ocean west of Australia, thousands of miles from its intended destination.

Some debris from the Boeing 777 has been washed up on Indian Ocean beaches. But the biggest underwater search in history, coordinated by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), was called off in January 2017 after two years.

The seabed search was led by Martin Dolan, who told a special edition of the _60 Minutes Australia_ programme: “This was planned, this was deliberate, and it was done over an extended period of time.”...."







Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 Experts Think They've Finally Solved the Mystery of the Doomed Malaysia Airlines Flight
By Cleve R. Wootson Jr/ WorldViews/ News/ The Washington Post/ washingtonpost.com

"All but one of the 239 people on the doomed Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 had probably been unconscious — incapacitated by the sudden depressurization of the Boeing 777 — and had no way of knowing they were on an hours-long, meandering path to their deaths.

Along that path, a panel of aviation experts said Sunday, was a brief but telling detour near Penang, Malaysia, the home town of Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah.

On two occasions, whoever was in control of the plane — and was probably the only one awake — tipped the craft to the left.

The experts believe Zaharie, the plane's pilot, was taking a final look.

That is the chilling theory that the team of analysts assembled by Australia's “60 Minutes” have posited about the final hours of MH370.

They suspect that the plane's 2014 disappearance and apparent crash were a suicide by the 53-year-0ld Zaharie — and a premeditated act of mass murder.

But first, the experts said, they believe that Zaharie depressurized the plane, knocking out anyone aboard who wasn't wearing an oxygen mask. That would explain the silence from the plane as it veered wildly off course: no mayday from the craft's radio, no final goodbye texts, no attempted emergency calls that failed to connect.

That would also explain how whoever was in control had time to maneuver the plane to its final location...."

Richard


----------



## VacationForever

visor said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/10/asia/mahathir-malaysia-election-intl/index.html
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/11/asia/malaysia-mahathir-anwar-ibrahim-pardon-intl/index.html
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Mahathir was a good man.  He was good for the region during his reign.


----------



## visor

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...say-theyve-solved-the-mystery-of-flight-mh370

Ottawa air crash investigators say they've solved the mystery of Flight MH370

(BY BLAIR CRAWFORD
ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED: MAY 19, 2018) 



The mystery of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 has captivated the world for more than four years, but for two retired Ottawa air accident investigators, it all comes down to six seconds.

And the evidence from those final moments before the Boeing 777 disappeared into the Indian Ocean is irrefutable, say Larry Vance and Terry Heaslip. 

“We call it an accident because that’s our terminology. But this is a criminal act. It’s not an accident,” says Vance, a former senior investigator with the Transportation Safety Board, who has written a book on MH370 that will be published next week.

"If someone does this intentionally, you can call that suicide. The pilot took his own life and he took the lives of everyone who was on board that aircraft.”

Just 20 confirmed and identifiable pieces of MH370 have been found since the plane and its 239 passengers and crew vanished on March 8, 2014. But those few pieces are enough, Heaslip said.

“When you start looking at them, there’s a story in every one of them. And the story is consistent,” said Heaslip, an expert on wreckage analysis who was the TSB’s director of engineering when he retired in 1983.

Heaslip and Vance, along with their partner, Elaine Summers, another retired TSB investigator, began looking into the MH370 crash as a training exercise for their Ottawa consulting company, HVS Aviation.  

The more they saw, the more they became convinced that the crash was a deliberate act by one of the pilots, whom they say likely killed his passengers by depressurizing the plane, then deliberately flew into a remote area of the Indian Ocean and ditched. Their theory flies in the face of the official story, which says the plane flew in a straight line until it ran out of fuel, then plunged vertically into the sea.


In the basement of Heaslip’s Blackburn Hamlet home, the two men pore over photographs of the wreckage, maps of the flight path and schematic drawings of the aircraft. They’ve worked together so long, they sometimes finish each other’s sentences.

Vance was the deputy lead investigator on Swissair 111 and wrote the TSB’s final report on the 1998 crash off the coast of Nova Scotia that killed 229. He was also the one to give briefings to the families, something that made it clear the investigation was more than a cold analysis of engineering calculations and cockpit procedure.
“People accuse me of being insensitive to families,” Vance says. “I don’t mind taking the question, but if someone challenges me, I say, ‘I don’t need any lessons from you. How many grieving families have you talked to after an airplane accident? I’ve done it by the hundreds. Don’t tell me that I don’t have any sympathy. I’ve had people faint in my arms.’ ”

Among the pieces of MH370 that have washed ashore are the aircraft’s right flap, a part of the wing the pilot extends when the plane is flying slowly before landing, and the adjacent “flaperon,” which also is extended and used to control the plane in low and slow flight.

The largest piece of wreckage measured eight-by-12 feet, something that would be impossible to survive a high-speed vertical impact. Nor were the rounded leading edge of the flap and flaperon damaged, again indicating the plane hit the water low, slow and relatively level.
“When the airplane is coming in (vertically) at 300 to 600 feet per second, everything is shattering into a million pieces,” Heaslip said. “In a third of second to half a second, it’s gone. There’s no way you could end up with a piece like this with the leading edge absolutely intact.”

That the flaps were extended also means the pilot had fuel, electricity and hydraulic power when he put the plane down, again proving that the plane’s tanks hadn’t run dry, they say.
Heaslip and Vance relied on old-fashioned wreckage analysis for their theory, studying the stresses and fractures visible on the recovered pieces to deduce the forces that tore the plane apart. Not even the electronic data of a black box recorder can do that, Heaslip said.

“Wreckage analysis is a dying art. They’re depending on the recorders. They tell you what happened — maybe. But they don’t tell you the sequence or why things are happening. You need to be able to do wreckage analysis.”

The crash data fits well with Vance’s examination of the earlier parts of the flight, including how the pilot turned off the plane’s transponder to make it invisible to radar before reversing direction and flying along the boundary of two separate air traffic control regions where the plane would be easily missed by controllers.

The wreckage of MH370 has never been found, despite years and hundreds of millions of dollars spent scouring the seafloor.
“What they’re proving every day that they search is that their assumptions were wrong,” Vance said.

The Ottawa team’s work is not part of the official investigation, nor have they been paid for any of their research, but Vance hopes their findings provide some comfort to the families of MH370.
“This is an attempt by us to give some amount of closure by telling them what happened,” he said. “Because if people in the end — I don’t care who they are — if they know the truth it’s better in the long run than if they never know what happened.”
MH370 Mystery Solved will be available in bookstores next week and can be ordered online at hvsaviation.com/


Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


----------



## Patri

I remember the pilot's family denied this could be the cause. So, if the plane hit low, slow and level, did the pilot drown? Or did the plane break up enough to kill him? Or did he swim to a remote island where he lives to this day?


----------



## MULTIZ321

The Search for Missing Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 Is Ending After 4 Years
By Eli Meixler/ World/ Malaysia/ Time/ time.com

"The hunt for missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 will finally come to an end next week, with millions of dollars spent and little more certainty than when the plane disappeared four years ago.

Malaysia had agreed to a final extension the search, currently led by American seabed exploration firm Ocean Infinity, but Minister for Transport Anthony Loke Siew Fook said Wednesday that it would not be interested in prolonging the effort after May 29, CNN reports.

“This morning I raised this in cabinet and agreed to extend to May 29,” Anthony Loke told reporters in Kuala Lumpur, according to Reuters. Loke confirmed there would be no additional extensions...."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search to Be Called Off As Investigators Insist It Was an Accident and Not 'Murder-Suicide' By Pilot
By Sophie Williams/ News/ World/ Evening Standard/ standard.co.uk

"The search for missing flight MH370 will end next week, it was confirmed today.

The flight, carrying 239 people, disappeared as it made its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014. 

The Malasyian government had previously promised the families of those onboard that they would continue the search "whatever happens."


Najib Razak, the country's Prime Minister at the time, said: "I promise the families of those lost that we will not give up."

Investigators insist that it was “unlikely” that the pilot was conscious at the time the plane crashed into the ocean and that the crash was therefore an accident...."





*7 Malaysia Airlines MH370*
Crew members of Chinese icebreaker Xuelong scan the sea to search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 in the area where Chinese aircraft spotted some suspicious objects in the southern Indian Ocean


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

A Search for MH370, Missing Since 2014, Ends 'With a Heavy Heart'
By Megan Specia/ World/ Asia/ The New York Times/ mobile.nytimes.com

"The latest search for MH370 — the Malaysia Airlines plane that disappeared four years ago en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people onboard — has ended in failure, the company behind the search said on Tuesday.

The company, Ocean Infinity of Houston, which scoured the seabed for any sign of wreckage with support from the Malaysian government, announced that the search was winding down with no evidence of the plane’s whereabouts.

“Part of our motivation for renewing the search was to try to provide some answers to those affected,” Oliver Plunkett, Ocean Infinity’s chief executive, said in a statement. “It is therefore with a heavy heart that we end our current search without having achieved that aim.”

He did not rule out a future resumed hunt...."





The Seabed Constructor, a ship operated by Ocean Infinity, set out in January for the search of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.CreditOcean Infinity, via EPA



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Search for Missing Plane MH370 Heads For One Last Spot of Interest
By Hannah Ellis-Petersen, South-East Asia Correspondent/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

"Ocean Infinity vessel to investigate area where Chinese ship detected ultrasonic pulse.

The search for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 is not quite over, the company leading the mission has said, despite the Malaysian government stating on Monday that it had ended.

Ocean Infinity said it was heading to one last spot of interest before it turns back for good.

The Guardian has learned that the seafront exploration company’s Seabed Constructor vessel will sail to the spot in the southern Indian Ocean where a Chinese patrol ship detected an ultrasonic pulse – which could have been consistent with that from a black box – in 2014.

A spokesperson for Ocean Infinity confirmed the company was aware of the reports of the possible black box signal four years ago, and it was heading to the area to check it out for themselves “before we head to port and bring this search to a close”.

The Malaysian government at the beginning of the week said its search agreement with Ocean Infinity had ended and would not be extended. 

Speaking on Monday, the transport minister, Anthony Loke, said the US-based company had requested an extension to conclude its undersea search for the missing plane.

Ocean Infinity’s arrangement with the Malaysian government was made on a “no-find, no-fee” basis, where the company would receive about $70m (£53m) if it found the aircraft wreckage, and no payment if it found nothing.

After five months of extensive searching, Ocean Infinity admitted defeat on Tuesday and its chief executive, Oliver Plunkett, said it was with “a heavy heart that we end our current search without having achieved that aim”.

However, it appears that in a last-ditch effort, the Seabed Constructor will continue for at least two more days to survey a spot 25 degrees south and 101 degrees east within the original 84,000-sq-mile search zone.

The pulse detected by the Chinese ship had a frequency of 37.5kHz, the same as is emitted by flight recorders, and it was seen as one of the few hopeful moments in the first few weeks of the search for the Boeing 777, which went missing in the early hours of 8 March 2014 en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Chinese planes had also reportedly detected debris in the area but no wreckage has subsequently been found, despite an international hunt the past four years...."


Richard


----------



## visor

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...-investigator-claims-murder-suicide-on-mh370/

Canadian accident investigator Larry Vance claims to have solved the mystery of the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370. In an interview, he explains why he believes the plane's captain deliberately ditched the aircraft.

The mystery surrounding the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 and the 239 people it had been carrying appears to have been solved -- at least according to the author of a new book. The jet took off from Kuala Lumpur on March 8, 2014, but never arrived at its destination in Beijing. Instead, the Boeing 777 flew for more than seven hours -- first in a westerly and then in a southward direction. The whereabouts of the aircraft are now largely known: Based on satellite data and drift analysis of the pieces of wreckage that haven been found so far, researchers were able to show that the airplane hit the water somewhere in the southern Indian Ocean.
But how did it get there? It was another case of murder-suicide, Canadian accident investigator Larry Vance, 69, argues in his new book "MH370: Mystery solved." The book claims that one of the pilots, most likely flight captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, probably got rid of his colleague in the cockpit and flew the airplane through the night into a remote region uncovered by radar that could have tracked it. There, in daylight, he intentionally ditched his fully functional aircraft to make it disappear forever as undamaged as possible.

The official Australian investigators do not agree with Vance. They're sticking to their conviction that MH370 somehow became pilotless, maybe after a fire or a catastrophic depressurization event. According to their version of events, the aircraft flew on autopilot in its final hours, without any human input. When the fuel ran out, the airplane nosedived and crashed at a very high speed into the ocean.

Based on this scenario, the investigators defined a search area where they assumed MH370 would most likely be found. The official search took three years, cost more than $100 million and ended without a trace of the plane's exact location. A second private search is due to be suspended this week. Who's right, Vance or his Australian colleagues?

DER SPIEGEL sat down for an interview with Vance on the occasion of the publication of his new book on the flight's disappearance, "MH370: Mystery Solved."

DER SPIEGEL: Mr. Vance, how many pieces of MH370 wreckage have been found?

Vance: The official investigation in Australia has identified 20 pieces as belonging to MH370, mostly coming from the wings, the fuselage and the tail. Importantly, there's a flap and a flaperon from the right wing. There are a handful of pieces that originate from inside the aircraft, parts of the interior paneling for example. And there are maybe 10 pieces that may or may not come from MH370.

DS: How many of those remains offer support for your theory of a pilot-controlled ditching?

Vance: Every single one of them. That's why our case is so strong. Some have a lot of very clear witness marks on them. Those on the flap for example prove that the flaps had been fully extended at the time the aircraft hit the water at a relatively slow speed. This is an all-important detail because only a pilot in the cockpit can manually lower the flaps. Other pieces do not provide any direct evidence for what happened, but the existence of each of these can nevertheless be explained by our theory.

DS: Some of the pieces are conspicuously small. Aren't they ample proof of a crash into the water at high speed?

Vance: This is where the official investigation went wrong. When they saw the tiny pieces, they assumed there would be thousands of similar ones floating on the ocean. And that would indeed have been a proof for their view. But more than four years after the disappearance of MH370, we know: Only a few pieces have made it to the African beaches, not thousands. Had they been created, we would have seen them by now. They haven't been created because there was no crash. It was a ditching.

DS: Not a single seat cushion nor a life vest has washed up. What does this tell you?

Vance: It tells me they are still inside the airplane. It tells me the fuselage of the airplane is basically intact and resting on the bottom of the ocean. The few pieces that have escaped from inside the aircraft did so because the fuselage was punctured, most likely at the apt end of the right wing. This happened after severe compression forces acted on the wing when it entered the water.

DS: In your book, you provide 13 pieces of evidence that you say individually and collectively prove the flaps were extended in the last moments of the flight. Is this going to end the argument?

Vance: I would hope so. If anybody wants to challenge us on our conclusion: We have more to offer. There is more evidence on those pieces that I don't mention in the book because it is aimed at the ordinary citizen and what he can understand. With all the additional tiny witness marks we have, we could easily defend our view of the story even in front of the most critical and professional audiences.

DS: You don't even have access to the actual wreckage -- yet you claim to have a better picture of what happened than the Australian investigators. Doesn't this make your analysis a bit suspicious?

Vance: A lot of accident investigation is done using high-res photographs, even when the wreckage is available to you. I have been doing this for 30 years and my partners Elaine Summers and Terry Heaslip for even longer. We have all the evidence we need. And we have all the experience we need to interpret the evidence properly. This is expertise the official investigators sadly are clearly lacking. But I make the prediction that they will change their minds once they see the evidence in my book.

DS: As you write, you used to warn people not to accept any conclusions that come from outside an investigation. Now you are one of those people offering advice from far away. Isn't that ironic?

Vance: It is. I have never been in this position -- but there was never something like MH370 before. We teach accident investigation in courses worldwide. We often use pictures from MH370 as an example. We teach what witness marks mean, what the evidence is showing. I found it strange that the results we got to weren't coming up in the official updates on the case. As a matter of fact, those updates that were appearing were even contrary to our analysis. That's when I decided to write this book. It took me 18 months and it wasn't easy.

DS: Why are the Australian investigators unable to see what you say is plain obvious?

Vance: It's even more astonishing. Dozens of experts from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia, Malaysia, China, Boeing and Rolls Royce have participated in the investigation into MH370. Some of them are the best and brightest the world has to offer, and some of their work has been intellectually breathtaking. Why is it that three investigators from Canada can see evidence that such an elitist group has simply overlooked?

DS: Well?

Vance: Maybe some basic skills in wreckage analysis have been lost. Nowadays, accident investigators tend to focus on flight data and cockpit voice recorders to reconstruct an incident. It's a high-tech approach. The ability to read a piece of wreckage isn't widely taught anymore. This is a worry to me. It's clear that this deficiency must be dealt with -- otherwise future investigations will be hugely error-prone.

DS: What was the biggest error on part of the Australians?

Vance: Some of them had their minds made up early in the investigation that this airplane was unpiloted, went into a high-speed dive and hit the water at high speed. They probably weren't mentally prepared to change their view when the wreckage came up and wreckage analysis was done. They were biased and blinded by that.

DS: Was this the most difficult investigation you've ever done?

Vance: No, it wasn't even hard at all. If this was truly a technical fault, it would have been very, very difficult to solve. But when you accept the fact that this was a criminal act, then it becomes very simple. It is easy for a pilot who already has control of the airplane to do whatever he or she decides they want to do with it. There is nothing to stop a pilot from doing what this pilot did. There is a complication of course in eliminating the other pilot. Take that aside, and everything that happened with MH370 is perfectly explainable and all the evidence supports it. A few other things of course aren't explainable: We will never fully know when and how the people on board died.

DS: We have Andreas Lubitz, a co-pilot with Germanwings, who flew his Airbus with 150 people on board into the Alps in 2015. We have MH370 in 2014, and in 2013, a suicidal captain with LAM Mozambique Airlines crashed his Embraer 190 intentionally in Namibia, killing all 33 people on board. Are suicidal pilots giving rise to a new type of fear of flying?

Vance: I don't think so. The day-to-day traveler can be assured that pilots just want the airplane to arrive safely. But the phenomenon of the suicidal pilot is certainly something that should be studied, especially from a prevention point of view. This was one of the reasons for me putting this book together.

DS: Will MH370 ever be found?

Vance: Maybe in the distant future. Searching the vast ocean with today's technology is just not effective.

DS: Mr. Vance, we thank you for this interview.
New York Times



Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Didn't  Just Disappear, It Was Caught in a Swamp of Corruption
By Clive Irving/ End Game/ Daily Beast/ thedailybeast.com

*"From the beginning, the crash investigation fell victim to a regime in Malaysia now revealed to have been one of the most corrupt in the world. There are other scandals, too.*

*It seemed that they did not want to quit. Even as the end of the search for the remains of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 was announced the crew of the ship conducting the search continued to scour the deep ocean floor in one last sweep.

But it’s over now. Any hope of finding the remains of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 any time soon—or maybe ever—has died. The Texas-based deep-sea search company Ocean Infinity has pulled the plug on its self-funded search in the Indian Ocean after three months.

This means that the world’s most advanced deep-sea search technology has been defeated by the same challenges that ended the previous 27-month search. It also means that the fate of the 239 souls on board the Boeing 777 that disappeared on March 8, 2014, remains part of the most baffling mystery in modern aviation history.

But this is so much more than a mystery. It is a calamity that indicts the organizations charged with setting the safety standards for international air travel for their failure to anticipate and remove a long-evident weakness in regulations.

And, equally seriously, it highlights the problem that air crash investigations can be seriously compromised by the political culture of the nations under whose jurisdictions they fall. In the case of MH370, that has exposed a singularly egregious example...."





Photo Illustration by Elizabeth Brockway/The Daily Beast


Richard
*


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Memorial to Missing is Put on Hold
By Call Wahlquist/ Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370/ World/ The Guardian/ theguardian.com

Plans to build a memorial to missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 have been put on hold until after the wreck is found.

The Australian and Western Australian governments committed to build a memorial in Perth in 2014 and had already put the $126,000 project out to tender.

But the WA premier, Mark McGowan, said he and the deputy prime minister, Michael McCormack, had decided that building a memorial before the plane was found was insensitive.

“This is a complex and highly sensitive matter, and the wellbeing of the relatives of those missing has always been our number one priority,” McGowan said in a statement.

“While some relatives were supportive of the memorial, others had concerns. It was decided in the best interests of all concerned not to proceed with the memorial at this point in time.

“We are very confident, after consulting with the Australian relatives, that we have made the right call.”....."





A woman walks past graffiti of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 in Kuala Lumpur. The plane disappeared on 8 March 2014. Photograph: Mohd Samsul Mohd Said/Getty Images

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

The Mystery of MH370 is About to be Laid to Rest for Good - Here are All the Theories, Dead Ends, and Unanswered Questions From the Most Bizarre Airline Disaster of the Century
By Sinead Baker/ Transportation/ Business Insider/ amp.businessinsider.com


*"Flight MH370 disappeared four years ago with 239 people on board.*
*It vanished on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, and only fragments have ever been found.*
*Years of investigations failed to make sense of what happened to the plane.*
*Conspiracy theories have grown as families of victims accuse the government of not releasing information.*
*Malaysia's government hopes a report out on Monday will draw a line under the mystery, but it's unclear what it could say to stop the questions.*
On March 8, 2014, Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 vanished from air traffic control radar screens, never to be seen again - and in the process spawned the most incredible aviation mystery of the 21st century.

The 239 people on board were never found, and are presumed dead.

Investigations dedicated to finding the plane, the victims, or any substantial evidence of what really happened, have come up with next to nothing, inviting speculation and conspiracy to fill the vacuum.

This Monday, the Malaysian government, which has taken chief responsibility for investigating the disappearance, will issue what it claims is the final report on the fate of the plane.

Transport minister Anthony Loke has promised total transparency in the document, with no redactions or obfuscations - but it's unclear what the authorities could say to truly draw a line under the disaster.

Here's what we know, what theories have been put forward and the unanswered questions the report might be able to address...."






AP; iStock; Skye Gould/Business Insider
The fate MH370 has become one of the world's biggest aviation mysteries.



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

The Mystery of MH370 is About to be Laid to Rest for Good - Here are All the Theories, Dead Ends, and Unanswered Questions From the Most Bizarre Airline Disaster of the Century
By Sinead Baker/ Transportation/ Business Insider/ amp.businessinsider.com


*"Flight MH370 disappeared four years ago with 239 people on board.*
*It vanished on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, and only fragments have ever been found.*
*Years of investigations failed to make sense of what happened to the plane.*
*Conspiracy theories have grown as families of victims accuse the government of not releasing information.*
*Malaysia's government hopes a report out on Monday will draw a line under the mystery, but it's unclear what it could say to stop the questions.*
On March 8, 2014, Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 vanished from air traffic control radar screens, never to be seen again - and in the process spawned the most incredible aviation mystery of the 21st century.

The 239 people on board were never found, and are presumed dead.

Investigations dedicated to finding the plane, the victims, or any substantial evidence of what really happened, have come up with next to nothing, inviting speculation and conspiracy to fill the vacuum.

This Monday, the Malaysian government, which has taken chief responsibility for investigating the disappearance, will issue what it claims is the final report on the fate of the plane.

Transport minister Anthony Loke has promised total transparency in the document, with no redactions or obfuscations - but it's unclear what the authorities could say to truly draw a line under the disaster.

Here's what we know, what theories have been put forward and the unanswered questions the report might be able to address...."






AP; iStock; Skye Gould/Business Insider
The fate MH370 has become one of the world's biggest aviation mysteries.



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Mystery Finally Laid to Rest? Malaysian Government to Release a 1500-Page Report on What Really Happened to Doomed Flight
By Kate Darvall and Josh Hanrahan for Daily Mail Australia/ News/ dailymail.co.uk


*"After four years the mystery surrounding flight MH370 could be laid to rest*
*The Malaysian government will release its final report on the aircraft on Monday *
*The flight went missing en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing in March 2014  *
*'Every word recorded by the investigation team will be tabled in this report' *
*It comes after years of conspiracy theories surrounding the doomed flight*
After years of investigations, the mystery surrounding doomed flight MH370 could finally be laid to rest.

The Malaysian government will release its final report on the aircraft on Monday, more than four years after the plane went missing en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing in March 2014.

Years of investigations have found no firm evidence as to what happened to the Malaysia Airlines plane, which was carrying 239 people including six Australians.

The Malaysian Minister of Transport Anthony Loke said the report would be released on Monday after families of those on board were briefed. 

'Every word recorded by the investigation team will be tabled in this report,' he said.

'It will be tabled fully, without any editing, additions or redactions.'....."





Pieces of debris have been found as far away as La Reunion (pictured), but the main body of the plane has still not been located


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Report: Queensland Woman Furious at 48-Hour Notice to Attend Briefing in Malaysia
By Kathy Sundstrom and Sarah Howells/ ABC Sunshine Coast/ News/ abc.net.au

"A Queensland woman has been left fuming after being given only 48 hours' notice to attend a government briefing in Kuala Lumpur on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Danica Weeks's husband Paul was among the 239 people aboard the Boeing 777 when it vanished between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing in March 2014.

The Malaysian Government is today releasing its final report on its investigation into the missing plane, but with two days' notice to travel 6000 kilometres, the Sunshine Coast mum said it was impossible for her to attend.

"I couldn't turn myself around in 48 hours to get there," Ms Weeks said.

"I wanted to be there, to be briefed on the report, I've been waiting to see what is in it."

Ms Weeks said if she had been given more notice of the briefing and that the flights would be paid for, she would have made sure she was there.

She is angry she will miss out on her opportunity to ask questions of the government as to what happened.


"We miss out on the one-to-one question time," she said.

*Travel confusion 'a slap in the face'*
A representative from a Malaysian support group phoned Ms Weeks early last week and advised there would be a briefing today, but that the families would need to get there at their own expense.

Ms Weeks ruled that out, but was then advised on Thursday that "they were going to pay for our flights."

She was also concerned whether any of the Australian families would make the briefing in time.

"They would be in the same boat as me, with not enough time to organise getting there," she said....."





*Photo:* Danica Weeks still does not know what happened to her husband Paul, who was onboard MH370 when it disappeared in March 2014. (Supplied: Danica Weeks)


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Was 'Manipulated' Off Course To Its End, Report Says
By Angus Whitley and Pooi Koon Chong/ Business/ News/ Bloomberg/ bloomberg.com

"Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, missing since 2014, was probably steered off course deliberately and flown to the southern Indian Ocean, according to the Malaysian government’s safety report into the disaster.

MH370 vanished on March 8, 2014, en route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur with 239 people on board. Investigators have never been able to explain why the jet abandoned its route shortly into the flight, traversed Malaysia and then cruised south over the Indian Ocean.

It’s difficult to attribute the change in course to any system failure, according to the report released Monday. “It is more likely that such maneuvers are due to the systems being manipulated,” the report said.

Experts mapped the Boeing 777’s course only after picking through hourly data hookups with a satellite. Extensive sonar searches of remote waters off Australia’s west coast failed to locate the wreckage.

Monday’s 449-page report offered little to solve modern aviation’s biggest mystery -- and stopped short of apportioning specific blame. There’s nothing to suggest the plane was evading radar, or evidence of behavioral changes in the crew, it said. Significant parts of the aircraft’s power system, including the autopilot function, were probably working throughout the flight, the report said.

“We are unable to determine with any certainty the reasons that the aircraft diverted from its filed planned route,” Kok Soo Chon, chief inspector of the MH370 investigation team, told reporters in Putrajaya, outside Kuala Lumpur. “The possibility of intervention by a third party cannot be excluded.”

Without the help of cockpit data recorders, search teams could only guess what happened in the flight’s final moments. Analysis by the Australian government suggested MH370 ran out of fuel before plummeting -- at as much as 25,000 feet a minute -- into the water. Other investigators speculated that a person was at the controls until the very end, gliding the plane into the ocean beyond the furthest limit of any search area.

Monday’s report didn’t support either theory explicitly, but struggled to come up with a mechanical explanation for the aircraft’s deviations.

*No Bodies*
“The change in flight path likely resulted from manual inputs,” it said. Similarly, the plane’s loss of communications before veering off track was more likely due to systems “being manually turned off or power interrupted to them” than a malfunction, it said.

A few pieces of wreckage from MH370 did wash up in Africa but no bodies have ever been recovered. A fresh underwater search this year by U.S. exploration company Ocean Infinity ended without success.

The jet’s disappearance produced a slew of safety recommendations aimed at preventing a repeat of the tragedy.

New aircraft must broadcast their locations every minute when they’re in trouble, but only from January 2021. A gradual tightening of requirements starts in November, when airlines must track planes every 15 minutes under regulations adopted by the United Nations’ International Civil Aviation Organization.

MH370’s cargo included 221 kilograms (487 pounds) of lithium batteries and 4.6 tons of fresh mangosteen fruit, according to its manifest. After extensive tests, Monday’s report ruled out smoke or fire caused by those goods mixing in the plane’s hold as a cause of the tragedy.

The report documented shortcomings among Kuala Lumpur air traffic controllers: they were too slow to initiate emergency procedures and there was no evidence to suggest they were continuously monitoring radar displays, it said. The report recommended better training to handle emergencies.

_— With assistance by Adrian Leung, and Yudith Ho_...."





Unsolved Mystery
Extensive Underwater Searches Have Failed to Find MH370

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Safety Report 'Unable to Determine Real Cause for Disappearance'
By Alistair Jamieson/ NBC News/ nbcnews.com

"The possibility of intervention by a third party cannot be excluded," according to the investigation team.

LONDON — The anguish of families of those on board Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 was prolonged Monday as an official accident report offered no new findings to explain the disappearance.

Investigators said the lack of debris from the doomed flight made it impossible to reach any conclusions about what happened to the Boeing 777 at the center of one of the world’s greatest aviation mysteries.

"The team is unable to determine the real cause for disappearance of MH370," Kok Soo Chon, head of the investigation team, told a news conference in Malaysia. "The answer can only be conclusive if the wreckage is found.”

The jet disappeared on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014 with 239 people on board.

The safety report — required by the International Civil Aviation Organization after every accident — could not determine why the aircraft’s transponder stopped transmitting location information, nor whether it broke up in mid-air or as it hit the southern Indian Ocean.

Investigators repeated the original assertion of Malaysia’s government that the plane was deliberately diverted and flown for over seven hours after severing communications, but could not determine “whether the aircraft was flown by anyone other than the pilots.”....."





A family member cries after an MH370 closed door meeting in Malaysia.STRINGER / Reuters





The 495-page MH370 safety report.Sadiq Asyraf / Reuters



Richard


----------



## VacationForever

The skeptic in me says that it is so easy to blame a dead man, it means no liabillity for the airplane and engine manufacturer.


----------



## geist1223

How can we be sure that Aliens did not take it?


----------



## MULTIZ321

Four Years Later, New MH370 Probe Finds Someone Veered the Plane Off Course
By Cleve R. Wootson Jr/ World Views/ News/ The Washington Post/ washingtonpost.com

On March 8, 2014, Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah radioed air traffic controllers, “Good night, Malaysia,” as the Boeing 777 he was piloting left the country's airspace. A short time later, he and the 250-foot plane disappeared.

By daybreak, Zaharie and the 238 other people on MH370 would be at the center of the biggest airplane mystery since the disappearance of Amelia Earhart.

Authorities may never know the answers to crucial questions about what happened after that final communication:

Why did the plane end up thousands of miles off course? Who switched the transponder off, preventing anyone from tracking the aircraft? And why was there never a mayday message or a final phone call or a desperate text from a panicked passenger?

But on Monday, authorities in Malaysia conceded that they do know one thing about the final hours of flight MH370:

Inside the plane, someone was in control.

After four years spent scouring every available detail about the final moments of the Beijing-bound flight, investigators in Malaysia determined that the plane's disappearance was not caused by a mechanical or computer malfunction. Some person, the investigation concluded, was responsible for the plane veering off course — a direction change that doomed all 239 people aboard.

“The change in flight path probably resulted from manual inputs,” the government's report said. A system malfunction alone could not account for sudden shifts in the direction of the plane.

Investigators with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau have said that everybody on the plane — the captain, his co-pilot, the passengers and crew — was unconscious as the uncontrolled craft ran out of fuel and plunged into the Indian Ocean....."





The brother of a missing passenger of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 writes a message during an event marking the anniversary of its disappearance, in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. (Azhar Rahim/European Pressphoto Agency)


Richard


----------



## VacationForever

"Investigators with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau have said that everybody on the plane — the captain, his co-pilot, the passengers and crew — was unconscious as the uncontrolled craft ran out of fuel and plunged into the Indian Ocean....."

I find this plausible, much like the late golfer Payne Stewart's plane crash.


----------



## visor

What happened to searching around Mauritius and apparently lots of debris that the MAS authorities haven't picked up yet from the locals who had collected?

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## MULTIZ321

The Real Reason MH370 Was Never Found: Final 1,500 Page Report Exposes Why Investigators Were Unable to Find a Trace of Doomed Plane Despite $200 Million
Four-Year Search
By Sam Duncan for Daily Mail Australia/ News/ dailymail.co.uk


*"Independent investigators released final 1,500-page MH370 report on Monday*
*The report revealed why the missing Malaysia Airlines jet has never been found*
*Family members of passengers on board the flight slammed the report findings *
A final 1,500-page report on doomed flight MH370 has revealed why the missing plane has still not been found, four years after it vanished with 239 people on board.

Independent investigators released the document on Monday, but the inconclusive report left families without closure four years after the disappearance.

Despite containing little solace for grieving friends and relatives of the missing passengers, the report did explain why a $200million search effort failed.

The Boeing 777-200 was equipped with four Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs), in accordance with regulations at the time, but not a single one worked.

'There have been reported difficulties with the transmission of ELT signals if an aircraft enters the water,' the report stated.

'In these instances, the ELT does not activate, or the transmission is ineffective as a result of being submerged under water. 

'This significantly hampers any search and rescue effort and may mean the aircraft location remains undetected for a considerable time.'

All four ELT batteries were within their expiry dates, the report noted. 

ELT failures are common, however, with the report stating that 'in 173 accidents involving aircraft fitted with ELTs, only 39 cases recorded effective ELT activation'...."
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



The Boeing 777-200 was equipped with four Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs), in accordance with regulations at the time, but not a single one worked


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Maylaysia Civil Aviation Chief Resigns Over MH370 Lapses
Reuters Staff/ World News/ Reuters/ reuters.com

"KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - The chief of Malaysia’s civil aviation authority resigned on Tuesday after an investigation report on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 showed lapses by the air traffic control center in Kuala Lumpur.

The report released on Monday on the disappearance four years ago of the airliner during a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people on board shed little fresh light on one of the biggest mysteries of modern aviation history.

In a statement announcing his resignation, Azharuddin Abdul Rahman said the report had highlighted failures by air traffic control to comply with standard operating procedures, but had not suggested the aviation authority was to blame for the loss of the aircraft.

“Therefore, it is with regret and after much thought and contemplation that I have decided to resign as the Chairman of Civil Aviation Authority of Malaysia effective 14 days from the date of the resignation notice which I have served today,” he said in the statement....."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

France Reopens MH370 Investigation Amid Claims of Malaysian Cover-Up
By Marnie O'Neill/ Travel Updates: Incidents/ News.Com.Au/ news.com.au

"FRANCE has reopened its investigation into the fate of missing Malaysia Airlines flight 370 after Malaysia’s long-awaited “final report” failed to provide an explanation for the aircraft’s disappearance.

French newspaper _Le Parisien_ reports that investigators are keen to verify data from Inmarsat — the British operator of a global satellite network — which tracked the aircraft’s pings to the southern Indian Ocean off Western Australia, where it is believed to have crashed.

In response, relatives of those on board MH370 issued a statement urging the Malaysian government to release all data, including military radar data, for review and analysis by independent experts.

Malaysia’s 449-page report into MH370’s disappearance, released on July 30, was universally condemned and sparked accusations by victims’ families of a cover up at worst and incompetence at best....."








Richard


----------



## x3 skier

Won’t be long before the Cable Channels explain everything including how the Aliens captured the plane with Tractor Beams and took it to Roswell or Area 51. 

Cheers


----------



## Talent312

x3 skier said:


> Won’t be long before the Cable Channels explain everything including how the Aliens captured the plane with Tractor Beams and took it to Roswell or Area 51.



It's time to put Fox and Scully on the case (X-Files).
"The Truth is Out There."
.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Plane Spotted in Cambodian Jungle on Google Maps, Man Claims
By Mark Hodge/ Asia/ Fox News/ World/ foxnews.com

"A British tech sleuth believes he has found the wreckage of the missing MH370 plane on Google Maps.

Ian Wilson claims he has spotted the doomed jet, which vanished in 2014 with 239 people on board, lying in a high altitude area of the Cambodian jungle.

Images from Google Maps show the outline of a large plane – which could simply be an aircraft flying directly below the satellite which photographed it.

But video producer Ian is convinced of his findings and says he intends to visit the sight to solve one of the greatest mysteries in aviation history.

He told the Daily Star: "Measuring the Google sighting, you're looking at around 69 meters, but there looks to be a gap between the tail and the back of the plane.

"It's just slightly bigger, but there's a gap that would probably account for that."

MH370 went missing people en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014....."





Ian Wilson claims he found the wreckage of MH370 plane on Google Maps.  (Google Maps)


Richard


----------



## DaveNV

MULTIZ321 said:


> MH370 Plane Spotted in Cambodian Jungle on Google Maps, Man Claims
> By Mark Hodge/ Asia/ Fox News/ World/ foxnews.com
> 
> "A British tech sleuth believes he has found the wreckage of the missing MH370 plane on Google Maps.
> 
> Ian Wilson claims he has spotted the doomed jet, which vanished in 2014 with 239 people on board, lying in a high altitude area of the Cambodian jungle.
> 
> Images from Google Maps show the outline of a large plane – which could simply be an aircraft flying directly below the satellite which photographed it.
> 
> But video producer Ian is convinced of his findings and says he intends to visit the sight to solve one of the greatest mysteries in aviation history.
> 
> He told the Daily Star: "Measuring the Google sighting, you're looking at around 69 meters, but there looks to be a gap between the tail and the back of the plane.
> 
> "It's just slightly bigger, but there's a gap that would probably account for that."
> 
> MH370 went missing people en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014....."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ian Wilson claims he found the wreckage of MH370 plane on Google Maps.  (Google Maps)
> 
> 
> Richard




But isn’t there that pesky piece of wing flap found on a beach by Madagascar? How does that work?

Dave


----------



## Passepartout

MULTIZ321 said:


> By Mark Hodge/ Asia/ *Fox News*/ World/ foxnews.com


Why am I all of a sudden very skeptical? On a news day with (ahem) 'other' things happening.

Jim


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Latest: Chinese Satellite Probes Cambodian Jungle for Missing Plane
By Joe Gamp/ News/ World/ Express/ express.co.uk

*"CHINA has used a government-endorsed satellite firm to home in on claims that the doomed Malaysian Airlines aircraft MH370 had been located in the Cambodian Jungle. *

*According to Dailystar.co.uk ,technology expert Ian Wilson said he had located what he believed to be the missing flight - which disappeared suddenly on March 8, 2014.

Using Google satellite imagery, Mr Wilson claimed he had pinpointed the location of the aircraft in Cambodian jungle and said he planned to fly a helicopter to the site of the wreckage.

But following the news on Thursday, Earth observation company Space View has said it scanned the land area to prove the Briton’s claims that the aircraft was located 60km away from capital Pnom Penh.

The company, authorised by the Chinese government, has now published images that it says are the same location of what Mr Wilson believes is the missing Malaysian Airlines plane.

However, the plane that is visible in Mr Wilson’s Google Maps image is not visible in Space View’s cutting-edge satellite technology.

Because of this the Chinese tech company says it has disproved Mr Wilson’s theory.

Space View tweeted: "Stakeholders and bystanders plead Space View to shoot at the site.

"So, we found out three images, shot in 2015, 2016 and 2018 from our archive.

"Sorry, no plane found there."

But despite Space View’s own conclusion, Mr Wilson is still planning to go ahead with his helicopter trip to closely examine the co-ordinates thrown up by the Google satellite.

And although the Chinese company says it has disproved Mr Wilson’s theory, a private investigator and aerospace expert has called for the company to zoom in on the coordinates using different Satellites.

Andre Milne, CEO of Unicorn Aerospace, has challenged Space View to use its own satellite equipment to offer a second opinion....."





The Google image apparently showing MH370, which a Chinese firm claims it has now disproved (Image: GOOGLE MAPS/GETTY)


Richard


*


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 'Crash Site' Shock: China Deploys Satellite to Prove Plane is in Cambodian Jungle
By David Rivers/ News/ World-News/ Daily Star/ dailystar.co.uk

"CHINA has zoomed in on the Cambodian jungle after staggering claims missing flight MH370 has been spotted there.

Their mission was a response to a Google Maps sighting from tech expert Ian Wilson, exclusively revealed by Daily Star Online.

Wilson's spot shows a plane measuring 70 metres, slightly longer than the 63.7m of MH370's doomed jet but with a mysterious gap between the body and tail.

Space View – authorised by the Chinese government – has published images it says pinpoint the same spot after the Malaysian Airlines plane disappeared.

However, the co-ordinates do not match Wilson's and the snaps are captured from a markedly higher position than Google's.

In a tweet referencing Daily Star Online's story, Space View wrote: "Stakeholders and bystanders plead Space View to shoot at the site.

"So we found out three images, shot in 2015, 2016 and 2018 from our archive.

"Sorry, no plane found there."

However, Wilson is adamant that the Google Maps spot needs to be examined and is planning to visit the site using a helicopter.
Unlike the Google Earth sighting, the plane is not visible in the snaps and the company claims this rules against Wilson's theory...."





GOOGLE/GETTY MYSTERY: China has examined a spot where missing flight MH370 is claimed to be


Richard


----------



## x3 skier

MULTIZ321 said:


> MH370 Latest: Chinese Satellite Probes Cambodian Jungle for Missing Plane
> By Joe Gamp/ News/ World/ Express/ express.co.uk
> 
> *"CHINA has used a government-endorsed satellite firm to home in on claims that the doomed Malaysian Airlines aircraft MH370 had been located in the Cambodian Jungle. *
> 
> *According to Dailystar.co.uk ,technology expert Ian Wilson said he had located what he believed to be the missing flight - which disappeared suddenly on March 8, 2014.*
> 
> *Using Google satellite imagery, Mr Wilson claimed he had pinpointed the location of the aircraft in Cambodian jungle and said he planned to fly a helicopter to the site of the wreckage.*
> 
> *But following the news on Thursday, Earth observation company Space View has said it scanned the land area to prove the Briton’s claims that the aircraft was located 60km away from capital Pnom Penh.*
> 
> *The company, authorised by the Chinese government, has now published images that it says are the same location of what Mr Wilson believes is the missing Malaysian Airlines plane.*
> 
> *However, the plane that is visible in Mr Wilson’s Google Maps image is not visible in Space View’s cutting-edge satellite technology.*
> 
> *Because of this the Chinese tech company says it has disproved Mr Wilson’s theory.*
> 
> *Space View tweeted: "Stakeholders and bystanders plead Space View to shoot at the site.*
> 
> *"So, we found out three images, shot in 2015, 2016 and 2018 from our archive.*
> 
> *"Sorry, no plane found there."*
> 
> *But despite Space View’s own conclusion, Mr Wilson is still planning to go ahead with his helicopter trip to closely examine the co-ordinates thrown up by the Google satellite.*
> 
> *And although the Chinese company says it has disproved Mr Wilson’s theory, a private investigator and aerospace expert has called for the company to zoom in on the coordinates using different Satellites.*
> 
> *Andre Milne, CEO of Unicorn Aerospace, has challenged Space View to use its own satellite equipment to offer a second opinion....."*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *The Google image apparently showing MH370, which a Chinese firm claims it has now disproved (Image: GOOGLE MAPS/GETTY)*
> 
> 
> *Richard*


I believe “Unicorn Aerospace” is a very appropriate name for that firm.

Cheers


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search Team Landing Helicopter at 'Jungle Crash Site' in Race to Claim *£54m Reward*
*By David Rivers/ News/ Latest-News/ Daily Star/ dailystar.co.uk*

"*A TENACIOUS truth-seeker is to fly into the Cambodian jungle on a helicopter mission after spotting what could be missing flight MH370 on Google Maps.*

*Tech expert Ian Wilson exclusively pinpointed the plane he claims is lying in mountainous terrain to Daily Star Online.*

*Investigator Andre Milne hailed his game-changing spot "significant", and urged Google to act urgently by using state-of-the-art satellite technology to revisit the site.

But British video producer Wilson is aiming to beat Google to the punch by landing a helicopter on the mystifying Google Earth site.

And what's more, the Camden resident will stake his claim for the jaw-dropping £54million prize money offered for unravelling the greatest aviation mystery of all time.

The jet measures 70metres, slightly larger than the 63.7m length of MH370's Boeing 777-200.

But in a stunning twist, there is a puzzling gap between the tail and body which could mark a fuselage breakage from a horror crash landing.

Wilson exclusively told Daily Star Online: "Just thinking about it makes want to move quickly.

"I’d like to know one way or the other and put this to bed so it doesn’t drag on.

"Google could help with that and hope they do.

"I'm in the same camp (as Milne) with regard to Google pointing a satellite at the coordinates and getting an answer, if that's possible.

"But I'd like to go sooner rather than later and really need to set aside and sort a plan."

He will fly in with his brothers and will seek help from other search parties, as well as alerting Cambodian authorities....."





GETTY/GOOGLE MYSTERY: A tech expert wants to fly a helicopter to what he claims could be MH370


Richard
*


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward

How can you land a plane, any plane, with a stall speed of over 100 Miles per hour (160 km per hour) in a jungle, intact enough to show as an airplane?

Not to mention a floating bits found off of Africa?


----------



## DaveNV

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> How can you land a plane, any plane, with a stall speed of over 100 Miles per hour (160 km per hour) in a jungle, intact enough to show as an airplane?
> 
> Not to mention a floating bits found off of Africa?




Did you miss the part about the 54M Pounds reward? A lot of crazies are going to crawl out of the woodwork.  

Dave


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> How can you land a plane, any plane, with a stall speed of over 100 Miles per hour (160 km per hour) in a jungle, intact enough to show as an airplane?
> 
> Not to mention a floating bits found off of Africa?


And that's ignoring satellite tracking signals that put the plane over the ocean, far distant from that location. 

But the guy got his five minutes and a news story in the Star - probably sharing space on the same page with the latest reports of alien space probes.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Found? Map Shows New 'Plane Wreckage Site' in Shocking Discovery
By Anthony Blair/ News/ World News/ Daily Star Sunday/ dailystar.co.uk

"A SHOCK new discovery may be the remains of the missing MH370 plane, Daily Star Online can reveal.

An amateur sleuth claims he's found the remains of the Malaysian Airlines flight deep in the heart of the Cambodian jungle.

The discovery was made on the Russian online mapping service Yandex Maps.

It was found in a remote area of jungle, 62 miles north-west of the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh.

A search of Yandex Map shows the clear outline of a plane, in the Pursat province of Cambodia, facing to the west, with a red flare around its tail.

The map's scale shows the plane matches up to the Boeing 777-200 — which is 63.7m in length.

Sharing his discovery on Twitter, the user, known only as Ivan Panther, tweeted: "Found MH370 on Yandex map."

The find comes just one week after tech expert Ian Wilson claimed he had found the missing MH370 on Google Earth lying in another high-altitude part of the Cambodian jungle 60 miles west of Phnom Penh.

These two different supposed crash sites lie just 11 miles apart, either side of a range of mountains straddling the border between the provinces of Pursat and Kampong Speu....."





Yandex Maps
DISCOVERY: The find was made on the Russian mapping service Yandex Maps


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Plane Mystery: MH370 Search Underway in Cambodian Jungle After Sleuth Spots 'Crash Site Wreckage' on Google Maps
By Mark Hodge/ News/ The Sun/ thesun.co.uk

"A group of experts have used a helicopter to search the mountainous area on the outskirts of Phnom Penh in a bid to find the wreckage of the doomed jet.

AVIATION experts have used a helicopter to search the Cambodian jungle in a daring bid to find flight MH370 after a sleuth claimed to have spotted the wreckage online.

The missing jet vanished in March 2014 while en route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur killing all 239 people on board.

Despite millions of pounds being spent on the unsuccessful search, British video producer Ian Wilson believes he has solved one of the greatest mysteries in aviation history by searching online.

Images from Google Maps show the outline of a large plane in a remote part of southern Cambodia  – which could simply be an aircraft flying directly below the satellite which photographed it.

But with a £53million finder’s fee up for grabs, a group of experts have used a helicopter to search the area in a bid to find the infamous plane, reports the Daily Star.

Wilson believes the wreckage of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 is in a high-altitude, mountainous area on the outskirts of Phnom Penh.

Aviation consultant Zorba Parer, and Nara Kang, a local businessman, and reporter Michael Carr rented a chopper to scour the jungle after hearing of the Brit’s findings.

But despite searching 500 feet of the wilderness, Parer revealed they found no sign of a plane.

He said: “We tried to find any piece of plane that may have been scattered.

“But we found nothing.

"We couldn’t find a trace of aircraft or any sign of any bodies.”

Last week, China has used a space satellite to zoom in on a location in the Cambodian jungle, highlighted by Wilson....."
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Google
3
The Google Maps image appears to show a large plane in the Cambodian jungle



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Team Searching ON THE GROUND With Exact Jungle Location Where 'Plane Came Down
By David Rivers/ News/ World News/ Daily Star/ dailystar.co.uk

"THE SEARCH for missing MH370 took a dramatic twist today after investigators demanded a search team visit a claimed wreckage spot on foot.

Tech expert Ian Wilson is to be airlifted to an area three miles from where he claims he has pinpointed the Malaysian Airlines flight using Google Maps.

He will then need a guide to lead him through the two-day jungle mission through the mountainous terrain west of Cambodian capital Phnom Penh.

It comes after Andre Milne – who previously declared Wilson's spot "significant" – called an earlier helicopter mission to find the missing MH370 flight "useless" because it wasn't on foot.

Milne – a private investigator and founder of Unicorn Aerospace – exclusively told Daily Star Online: "Flying over in a helicopter is virtually useless.

"It requires human insertion to the ground via a jungle penetration from above.

"Flying 'over' a deep jungle growth forest to look for an aircraft that could have been on the ground for over four years is virtually useless because of the thick vegetation that will have grown all around and over the aircraft making it impossible to see from the air....."





PH MISSING: Investigators outline MH370's possible disappearance 


Richard


----------



## pedro47

This story is for The Twilight Zone and only the pilot, co-pilot and the passengers aboard this plane knows what really happen.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

MULTIZ321 said:


> .
> 
> "Flying 'over' a deep jungle growth forest to look for an aircraft that could have been on the ground for over four years is virtually useless because of the thick vegetation that will have grown all around and over the aircraft making it impossible to see from the air....."
> 
> Richard


So why were they able to spot it on Google maps?.


----------



## pedro47

Years ago how many planes were this size and if was spotted by Google map; then someone sure have the plane location on a map .


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 World Exclusive: Frantic Never-Before-Seen LAST Message Sent to Doomed Jet REVEALED
By Charlotte Ikonen/ News/ World-News/ Daily Star Sunday/ dailystar.co.uk

"MH370 was sent a final message by desperate air traffic controllers that has never been released, Daily Star Online can exclusively reveal.

The stricken jet vanished after veering south across the Indian Ocean in March 2014 while flying between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing.

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 was carrying 227 passengers and 12 crew on the routine flight when it disappeared from the radar. 

Despite two large-scale searches of the sea bed, only scattered pieces of debris have been found and the disappearance remains one of the greatest aviation mysteries of all time.

We can reveal how Malaysia's Ministry of Transport has this week released the full log of communication between MH370 and the ground. 

Authorities had been accused of releasing incomplete and edited logs.

Notably, the new log contains an additional message that was sent from MAS Operations Dispatch Center (ODC) and destined for MH370. 

It was sent around the time of the first unanswered phone call to the pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah – who some believe deliberately crashed the plane.

The message was sent at 18:38:51 and was intended to be displayed in the cockpit on a Control Display Unit (CDU), which a pilot uses to perform tasks such as programming the flight computers. 

The message was not received by the plane, and was re-sent at 18:39:52, 18:40:42, and 18:41:52, failing each time. 

It is not clear why this message was left out of the official documents until now....."





MH370: Malaysia has secretly released new data into the jet that's been missing for four years


Richard


----------



## pedro47

What was the message?


----------



## MULTIZ321

pedro47 said:


> What was the message?


Hi Pedro,

It was short : 
The text of the message was: “DEAR MH370. PLS ACK TEST MSG. RGDS/OC.”

Best Regards.

Richard


----------



## pedro47

Good morning Richard thanks from. Richard from Virginia.

Best Regards,
Richard


----------



## Talent312

Talk about a useless piece of trivia.
--------------------------------------
DW to DH... "Are you listening to me?"
DH to DW... "Sure. What did you say?"
DW to DH... "Do you need a hearing aid?"


----------



## MULTIZ321

The MH370 Captain, the Twin Sister Models and some VERY Creepy Messages: How 53-Year-Old Married Pilot of Doomed Malaysia Airlines Flight Bombarded Young Instagram Stars With Facebook Posts 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ight-MH370-captain-twin-Malaysian-models.html


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Hunt to Take 10 Days as 'Crash Site' Jungle Crawling With 'TIGERS and Armed Hunters'
By Charlotte Ikonen/ News/ World-News/ Daily Star/ dailystar.co.uk

"A SEARCH of the Cambodian jungle for missing flight MH370 could take up to 10 days as the site is crawling with tigers and illegal hunters.


The Malaysia Airlines MH370 plane has been missing for four years after vanishing over the Indian Ocean.

Despite two large-scale searches of the sea bed off the coast of western Australia, only scattered pieces of debris have been found.

But a new search is under way after a Google Maps snap that some believe prove a plane had crashed in a high-altitude jungle in Cambodia. 

The new development comes as Daily Star Online revealed the final messages sent to the missing plane – which until now have been kept secret. 

This week the first helicopter search of the area northwest of Phnom Penh was completed by aviation experts desperate to get their hands on the £53million finder's fee.

Zorba Parer, an aviation consultant, Nara Kang, a local entrepreneur, and journalist Michael Carr rented a helicopter for a £3,000 trip into the jungle but came back empty handed.




It is feared the plane will be found only on foot – but that could take up to 10 days and would be extremely dangerous, according to locals.

Mr Parer – who used to work for NASA – said his group first launched a ground mission but had to turn around after realising the dangers.

Writing on his blog, he said: “A local advised us not to go without an accompanying passenger more than 100 metres away.

“That’s because of the wild animals like tigers. 

“In the jungle area, we also heard rumours about illegal hunting practices.





GETTY DANGEROUS: The jungle's feared terrain is delaying the search for a possible MH370 sighting


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Pilot was SLURRING After Cabin Filled With Engine FUMES: Family Makes STUNNING Claim
By Charlotte Ikonen/ News/ World News/ Daily Star/ dailystar.co.uk.cdn.ampproject.org

"THE sister of MH370’s pilot has sensationally claimed his voice was slurred in final messages sent from the plane.

Sakinab Shah has always dismissed suggestions her younger brother Zaharie Shah, 57, hijacked Malaysia Airlines’ MH370 to kill himself and the 238 others on board as “preposterous”.

And in July, Ms Shah said Malaysia’s final report into the disappearance – which was unable to determine what happened on the doomed plane – finally put to rest the theory her brother was responsible for what happened.

And now it has emerged Ms Shah believes her brother’s voice was slurred in his final messages sent to ground control from the cockpit...."





DS REVEALED: The pilot of MH370 was unconscious when the plane went down, it's claimed


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 News: The Final Report Into the Disappearance of Flight MH370 Has Sensationally Been Branded a "Cover-Up" By Top Aviation Experts
By Charlotte Ikonen/ News/ World News/ Daily Star/ dailystar.co.uk.cnd.ampproject.org

"The stricken MH370 jet vanished after veering south across the Indian Ocean in March 2014 while flying between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing.

The Malaysia Airlines plane was carrying 227 passengers and 12 crew on the routine flight when it disappeared from the radar. 

Despite two large-scale searches of the sea bed, only scattered pieces of debris have been found and the disappearance remains one of the greatest aviation mysteries of all time.

A 19-strong team of Malaysian investigators said in July there was no reason to suspect a mechanical problem, and that nothing in the behaviour of the captain or the first officer suggested any malicious intent.

They concluded: “The team is unable to determine the real cause for the disappearance of MH370.

But Mike Exner and Don Thompson, members of an independent group of experts looking into the flight's disappearance, have accused Malaysia of failing to faithfully pursue the investigation and have detailed what has been left out of the flawed investigation.

They claimed the investigation “was heavily politically influenced and delayed”. 

The pair called on Malaysia to make more information public to help independent researchers locate the missing plane.

The group has provided detailed analyses of the search for MH370 for the past four years and includes experts in physics, radar, satellite technology, mobile satellite communications, avionics designers and airline flight simulators. 

In an interview with AirlineRatings.com, the experts outlined seven areas where Malaysia either needs to commit to doing more or providing additional information on MH370.

The first is a new analysis of the radar data collected for the missing Boeing 777.

“The Safety Investigation Team has failed to provide any useful analysis of data from the military radar,’’ they said.

“It is important to establish if, when and where descents/climbs did occur and what impact that would have on fuel endurance and other implications.

“Of course, there are the somewhat incredible statements about Indonesian and Royal Thai Air Defence Surveillance radar assets not detecting the Boeing 777 in the northern Straits of Malacca.”

Next, they want a complete “structural analysis of the most significant debris items” that have been found.

The debris catalog includes two parts, a flap, and a flaperon, that originated from adjacent positions on the starboard wing....."





Getty MH370: One of the world's greatest aviation mysteries still hasn't been solved


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Flight MH370: Eight 'Unsolved Mysteries' Exposed by Experts Who Suspect a 'Cover Up'
By Chris Kitching/ News/ World News/ Missing Malaysian Airlines Flight/ Mirror/ mirror.co.uk

"A group of aviation experts has blasted the official report into the disappearance of flight MH370, saying it was flawed and Malaysia didn't try to get close to the truth.

The experts have poked holes in the report and uncovered eight key areas where more action or information is needed from the country's government.

The Malaysia Airlines flight vanished with almost 240 passengers and crew as it flew from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing in March 2014.

It remains one of aviation's biggest mysteries, with few pieces of debris found and the exact reason it went off course still unknown.

In their official report, Malaysian officials concluded that they were unable to determine the "real cause" of the Boeing 777-200's disappearance.

British aviation expert Don Thompson and fellow specialist Mike Exner, from the US,have accused Malaysia of failing to faithfully and diligently pursue the investigation.

They claim the probe “was heavily politically influenced, and delayed”, and have called on the country's leaders to reveal more about what they haven't told the public.

In an interview with the West Australian, the pair, from the Independent Group (IG) of experts, explained eight areas where Malaysia needs to do more or reveal more information....."






The *'final' moments* of MH370 are recreated with a *death spiral* into the sea


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Expert Analyst Explains Google Maps Sighting of Missing Plane
By Ciaran McGrath/ News/ World/ Sunday Express/ express.co.uk

*"MH370, which was supposedly spotted on Google Earth did NOT crash-land in a remote area of Malaysia, experts have concluded after an analysis of the region using hi-tech imaging techniques.*

*Keen-eyed amateur sleuth John Barnsley, from Liverpool, spotted the anomaly on Google Satellite view, which appeared to show a large aircraft in jungle 50 miles south of the city of Ranong, in the north of Malaysia.

Mr Barnsley, from Liverpool, said: “It gives me the chills when I saw it. 

“This is a large plane where it should not be.”

However, Express.co.uk was subsequently contacted by technology company SOAR, which is aiming to rival Google Maps by building a decentralised global super-map of the world built on blockchain technology.

Chris Lowe, the company’s lead blockchain scientist, said of the missing Malaysia Airlines fight: “It's rare but the Earth is a big place and sometimes when a satellite is capturing an area it just so happens that a plane is flying beneath it at cruising altitude.

“When this happens the plane appears to be on the ground because the Satellite is so far away and effectively has an infinite focal length. 

“For an analogy consider someone holding a toy plane at the opposite end of a football field and then taking a step backwards.

“From your perspective the plane is about the same size your eyes focus on it the same way.*

*“This is how people mistake these kinds of images as being planes on the ground.

“To completely disprove this claim it is the missing MH370 we simply use the Soar platform to view that exact area using different satellite passes.”

Mr Lowe provided two photographs, one from Google Maps and one produced using his software, which he said proved the location of the plane to be an optical illusion.

He also said a real crash site would cause massive structural damage to the aircraft not present in the plane featured in the Google images....."





Soars' analysis (right) shows the image on the left is an optical illusion (Image: GETTY)


Richard

*


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 News: Man to Search 'New Bermuda Triangle' Where Plane Spotted on Google Earth
From ampproject.org/ Express/ News/ World/ express.co.uk.cdn

*"A MAN is to trek a Cambodian jungle in search of the missing MH370 after a plane was spotted on Google Maps in a mysterious zone home to downed planes - dubbed the new Bermuda Triangle.*

*London-based Ian Wilson believes he spotted the plane on his Google App stranded 60 miles west of Cambodia’s capital Phnom Penh. 

He will embark on the journey through the jungle with Cambodian soldiers on a mission through mountains to the north west of Phnom Penh.

Mr Wilson will also be joined by his brother Jackie on the excursion leaving from London Heathrow on Tuesday.

Mr Wilson told Daily Star Online: "I'm excited. A real worry was not having anyone skilled taking us in, and going in on our own.*

*"But I'll leave it to the experts. They seem really helpful at the moment. I think we'll get as close as we can before we start climbing."

Experts have discredited the sighting, certain the image show a large aircraft simply caught in mid flight passing over the jungle. 

If the image does turn out to be a plane wreckage the area could be an aircraft graveyard in the formation of the a new Bermuda Triangle, a loosely-defined region in the western part of the North Atlantic Ocean, where a number of aircraft and ships are said to have disappeared under mysterious circumstances. 

The plane’s location would mean that a triangular shape could be drawn between the aircraft and two other planes that crashed in the region. 

In 1997 two people died when a short-haul Cessna 208 Caravan flight crashed into mountains near Kampong Chhnang some 86 miles east of Mr Wilson’s sighting....."*

*



*
*Mr Wilson believes this is the missing MH370 (Image: getty)*


*Richard*


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Search Halted as Wreckage Hunter 'Almost Killed' in Dangerous Path
By Suman Varandani/ World/ International Business Times/ ibtimes.com

"The search operation led by British investigator Ian Wilson who claimed to have found missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 on Google Maps in Cambodia had to be halted due to the dangers on the path. Ian and his brother Jack had set off on a five-mile mission through the Cambodian jungle this week to locate the wreckage of the plane.

However, they had to abort the search operation as the route was allegedly very dangerous and could cost them their lives. The duo had used local guides to take them close to the Pursat Province border — four miles north of the Phnom Aoral peak, where Ian believes the plane is located.

"We couldn’t do it from where we went from. It is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Our guides reached a point and couldn’t go any further," Ian told the Daily Star. "They got to a waterfall and then did the 'we can’t do more' sign. Jack and I couldn’t understand it, we weren’t too happy but we were also exhausted from carrying the bags."

"We’ve picked up injuries, many falls and climbs that were really painful. My feet are destroyed, I have knee sprains. But I'm really proud of Jack... Both of us had to cross around 20 waterfalls, we fell most of the time and we were lucky to not kill ourselves on the boulders and get swept away in the current," he added.

Ian and Jack arrived in the Cambodian capital, Phnom Penh, on Tuesday before their journey to Chrok La Eang Waterfalls — a tourist hotspot. They then were scheduled to embark on the five-mile journey to Ian's Google coordinates.

"Bruised and battered, it was a hell of an effort. I just wish we’d gone from the waterfall as planned but things didn’t go to plan. No one speaks English at all. I’m proud we got as far as we did after all the let downs, we can hold our heads up high," Ian said. "The guides indicated there was no way they could take us any further... We’d never have got that far without them, to be honest, they were brilliant at using machetes to clear room to crawl through."

According to Ian, Flight MH370, which went missing March 8, 2014, crashed in the Cambodian jungle. The plane was carrying 239 people while on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing when it went off the radar. Despite a multimillion-dollar search, the plane could not be found and investigators failed to determine the cause of the crash......"





A man lights candles during the fourth annual remembrance event for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, March 3, 2018. (Photo: REUTERS/Lai Seng Sin)


Richard


----------



## davidvel

I thought I was reading one of those Nigerian scam emails, and they'd  be asking for a donation. The plane (what's  left of it) is at the bottom of a deep ocean.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Bizarre New MH370 Theory: Pilot Claims He Has Discovered the Engine, Tail and Cockpit of Doomed Malaysia Airlines Flight in Cambodian Jungle Surrounded By 'Illegal Loggers High on Meth'
By Charlie Coe for Daily Mail Australia/ News/ dailymail.co.uk


*A pilot claims to have found parts of the plane deep in the Cambodian jungle*
*Daniel Boyer said he found the white objects while looking on Google Maps *
*His find is just 16km away from a sighting of a 'plane-shaped object' last month*
*The evidence contradicts the main theory that the plane crashed in the ocean*
*Police are also looking at evidence MH370's navigation equipment was hacked*
A pilot claims to have discovered parts of doomed Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 in the same area of the Cambodian jungle where a filmmaker was forced to abandon his pursuit of the plane's wreckage because of 'illegal loggers high on meth'.

Daniel Boyer said he has located the engine, tail and cockpit of the plane buried in the jungle north of Phnom Penh using Google Earth.

His find comes just a month after British film producer Ian Wilson embarked on a two-day trek to find a 'plane-shaped object' he had sighted on Google Maps.

After the satellite image went viral, the producer and his brother were air-dropped into the jungle with a group of Cambodian soldiers in order to earn the $96million reward for finding the wreckage.

But the filmmaker said they had to turn back because the site was 'surrounded by armed illegal loggers high on crystal meth'. 

The new sighting is just 16km away from Mr Wilson's find, near to the Chrok La Eang Waterfalls. 

Mr Boyer said he could even match up the measurements of the white objects to the standard measurements of a Boeing 777. 

'I couldn't believe it when I made this sighting. This is a massive discovery,' Mr Boyer told The Daily Star.

'First the cockpit can be seen and now this.

'I am gobsmacked this area has not yet been searched.' 

The bizarre findings run contrary to the theory that MH370 crashed into the sea.

That theory is supported by the debris which has washed up on the islands of the Indian Ocean in the years since the passenger jet disappeared on March 8, 2014.

French police, meanwhile, are investigating whether navigation data from MH370 could have been hacked to disguise the route it took before crashing into the ocean.

Investigators wanted to go back over raw data collected by Boeing and the FBI after finding 'inconsistencies' in the Malaysian Government report issued earlier this year....."





Mr Boyer told The Daily Star he could even match up the measurements of the white objects (pictured)  to the standard measurements of a Boeing 777


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Latest: Aviation Investigators to Probe US Tech Firms Over 'Hacking' Theory
By Simon Osborne/ News/ World/ Express/ express.co.uk

*"FRENCH investigators trying to crack the mystery of Flight MH370 are waiting for permission to quiz US tech companies amid bombshell claims hackers may have interfered with he ill-fated passenger jet’s satellite communication systems. *

*France is the only country still actively investigating the disappearance of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 which vanished on March 8, 2014 after taking off from Kuala Lumpur for Beijing with 239 passengers and crew aboard.

Sources close to the French probe said analysts from the research section of the Gendarmerie Air Transport (GTA) were waiting for the green light from US authorities.

According the L’Essor, an unofficial journal for the French military police, the investigators want to check overseas if a US company sells software capable of reprogramming or even hacking the Satcom.

The system is used by airlines to transmit messages about the state of the aircraft in flight and its communications.

Independent investigator Victor Iannallo said: “This story, if true, suggests that the French judiciary system, and in turn the military police that are assigned to the case, are seriously considering whether the Inmarsat data was corrupted by a malicious intrusion into the Satcom onboard MH370.

“Considering that the Inmarsat data is consistent with the aircraft crashing in the Southern Indian Ocean near the seventh arc of the search zone, and that the timing and location of the recovered parts from the aircraft also suggest that the aircraft crashed in the sea, to doubt the Inmarsat data implies doubting the veracity of the recovered parts.

“This is the first time a government investigative body is known to be seriously considering a hack of the Satcom combined with planting of debris.”....."





Malaysia Airlines MH370 map (Image: GETTY)


Richard
*


----------



## Talent312

That has got to be the most hairbrained theory, yet.
No one could possibly care enuff to hack it or plant debris.
Move along. Nothing to see here. Go back to your day jobs.
.


----------



## Patri

This is the thread that should be allowed to die, rather than Mary Ann's. We see legitimate updates in the news. There aren't any worthwhile.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Kin of Missing From Malaysian Plane Hand Over Suspected Debris, Urge Search
By Reuters/ News/ af.reuters.com

"KUALA LUMPUR, Nov 30 (Reuters) - Relatives of some of the people missing on Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 urged Malaysia on Friday to resume a search for the plane that disappeared in 2014, as they handed over what they believe are five new pieces of debris from it.

Flight MH370 was on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014, with 239 people on board, when it vanished, and became one of the world’s greatest aviation mysteries. 

The next of kin of some of those on board handed the government the five pieces of debris they said had been found by villagers in Madagascar, in three difference locations, one bit found as recently as August.

“The fact that debris is still washing up now means that the investigation should still be live. It shouldn’t be closed,” said Grace Nathan, a lawyer whose mother, Anne Daisy, was on the plane.

Malaysian and international investigators believe the jet veered thousands of miles off course before plunging into the Indian Ocean.

In July, investigators released a 495-page report, saying the plane’s controls were likely deliberately manipulated to take it off course but they were not able to determine who was responsible.

More than 30 bits of suspected debris have collected from various places around the world but only three wing fragments, which washed up along the Indian Ocean coast, have been confirmed to be from MH370.

Transport Minister Anthony Loke, who met the next of kin, said the government would consider resuming a search if provided with credible leads. 





Grace Nathan, whose mother was onboard the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, hands over a debris believed to belong to MH370 to Malaysia's Transport Minister Anthony Loke Siew Fook in Putrajaya, Malaysia November 30, 2018. REUTERS/Lai Seng Sin


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

'This is Where MH370 Crashed': Fisherman Claims He Saw Plane Go Down and Recorded the Exact Location on GPS, Saying 'It Moved Like a Broken Kite....no Noise, Just Smoke'
By Miranda Aldersley for MailOnline/ News/ DailyMail.com/ dailymail.co.uk


*"Rusli Khusmin, 42, says he and his crew witnessed the March 2014 air disaster*
*He swore an oath of truth on the Koran this morning and handed over evidence*
*The co-ordinates in the Sumatra Indonesian Sea will be given to investigators  *
An Indonesian fisherman who claims to know the exact spot where the ill-fated MH370 plane crashed into the Sumatra sea has handed over the co-coordinators to investigators.

Rusli Khusmin, 42, says he and his crew members witnessed the disaster, in which a Beijing-bound Malaysian Airlines flight carrying 239 people disappeared, on the morning of March 8, 2014. 

Rusli recorded the co-ordinates of the site where he says the plane entered the water on a GPS device and held up a map to show reporters. 

At a news conference today in Subang Jaya, near Kuala Lumpur where MH370 took off, he recalled a seeing a damaged aircraft and thick black smoke. 

'I saw the plane moving from left to right like a broken kite,' he said. 'There was no noise, just black smoke as a result of fires before it crashed into the water.'

There was a strong smell of acidic fumes in the air before the plane went down, he added. 

Rusli was flown in from Indonesia for the news conference at the Lake View Club in Subang Jaya, where he swore an oath of truth over the Koran.

He did not explain why he had taken almost five years for him to report his version of events to authorities......"





Rusli says this spot in the Sumatra Sea between Malaysia and Indonesia is the final resting place of MH370



Richard


----------



## Patri

He was having a low moment, and wanted to be in international headlines. Sheesh.


----------



## MULTIZ321

New Underwater Sound Wave Analysis Suggests Alternative Travel Route and New Impact Locations
By Vanessa Brown/ Travel Updates/ Incidents/ News.com.au/ news.com.au

"It remains one of the greatest aviation mysteries of all time but now a mathematician says he has a new theory on where MH370 went down.

The whereabouts of doomed flight MH370 remains one of the greatest aviation mysteries of all time.

But a mathematician from Cardiff University in Wales believes he’s calculated a “new impact location” where the doomed Malaysian Airlines aircraft went down in 2014 with 239 people on board.

Writing for  _The Conversation_, Dr Usama Kadri — a lecturer in applied mathematics and engineering — focused his argument for the new impact zone based on “acoustic waves”.

Dr Kadri, whose work focuses on physical oceanography, quantum analogs, multiphase flows and wave power harnessing, said he and his team of researchers have been able to identify two locations where the aeroplane could have impacted with the ocean, as well as an alternative route that it may have taken on March 8, 2014.

One theory puts the crash site further north in the Indian Ocean than previously believed, while the other points to a flight course taking MH370 closer to Madagascar.

Dr Kadri’s argument lies around waves — both outside and inside the water — and the distorted noise caused by nearby military action. He also questions 25 minutes of “missing” data recordings which were made at a secret US defence facility.

“When you drop a pebble in a lake, water waves are generated from the location of the impact, while sound waves create the splashing noise you hear,” he wrote in the article. “Another type of wave is generated inside the water too: hydroacoustic. Similar to a sound wave, hydroacoustic waves move relatively slowly through the dense water, at 1500 metres per second (m/s).”

Typically, when an object hits water, surface waves tend to become smaller and smaller until we can’t see them anymore. But, they do keep travelling through the water at a lower depth. These “acoustic-gravity waves” can travel for thousands of kilometres undisturbed, and even cross an entire ocean.

As for a plane, like MH370, the impact is “violent at the surface” of an ocean, meaning it “generates large surface waves, and a family of sound waves that come from a sudden change in pressure known as acoustic-gravity waves”.

“These can travel thousands of kilometres through the water, carrying vital information on the source of the impact, before dissipating,” he said.

In 2017, Dr Kadri along with his colleague Dr Davide Crivelli, “looked at acoustic-gravity waves picked up by hydrophone (underwater microphone) stations in the Indian Ocean, to narrow down where flight MH370 may have impacted the ocean to two points”.

But their new study has revealed another factor that may prove crucial for pinning down the location of the impact. And that factor is sea floor elasticity.

“The acoustic-gravity waves that we analysed for both this and our previous study came from two hydroacoustic stations (each of which has three underwater microphones called hydrophones), which were active at the time when MH370 went missing,” he said.

“The first, HA01, is off Cape Leeuwin, Western Australia, while the second, known as HA08s, is at Diego Garcia, which is part of the Chagos Archipelago.

“Previous studies have mostly looked at the signals collected by station HA01, as well as signals that related to the last satellite data transmission from MH370. However, with our new understanding of acoustic-gravity waves we decided to look at hydroacoustic data from HA01 that was recorded during a wider time frame … and analysed data from the further away HA08s station too.

“Allowing for the effects of sea floor elasticity, the signal locations that we had previously identified using data from HA01 were now different.”

While the Cape Leeuwin recordings (HA01) were relatively clear, those from Diego Garcia (HA08s) had been distorted by the noise of a nearby military exercise. This made extracting sound potentially related to MH370 from the recorded data much more difficult.

The distorted recording from HA08 was positioned at the secret US defence facility at Diego Garcia, in the heart of the Indian Ocean. Much of its data from the relevant time frame is distorted. And 25 minutes of it is inexplicably missing, according to Dr Kadri.

“Unfortunately, on top of the noisy recorded signals, 25 minutes of data from HA08s is missing,” Kadri says.

“The signals we have analysed indicate that the there was a 25-minute shutdown that has gone unexplained by the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organisation, which is responsible for the hydrophone stations.”

Dr Kadri says aligning what they had of HA08 with the recorded data from HA01 produced a new possible impact point.

“Although the proposed route and point of impact is distant from the 7th arc, we still recommend further studying a number of signals from HA08,” he said.

“The bearings of some of these signals fall within the area where signals from the military action were picked up, so it is possible that the signals are associated with the military action.”

But if the signals are related to MH370, this would suggest a new possible impact location in the northern part of the Indian Ocean....."







Map of hydrophone signals recorded on March 7 and 8, 2014, which may indicate a new location for MH370. Picture: Usama Kadri_Source:Supplied


Richard_


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 News: MH370 'Shot Down in Botched Bid to Stop 9/11-Style Terror Attack' Claims New Investigation
By Anthony Blair/ World News/ Daily Star/ dailystar.co.uk

"MISSING flight MH370 was brought down by military officials who feared it had been hijacked in a 9/11-style attack, an investigator has sensationally claimed.

Malaysian authorities believed the plane - carrying 239 passengers and crew - had been taken over by Iranian terrorists who wanted to fly it back towards the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur.

Acting quickly - and faced with a disaster of global proportions - the government ordered a warning strike on the plane.

But, speaking exclusively to Daily Star Online, private investigator Noel O'Gara said this mission went horribly wrong and the plane was brought down in the Andaman Sea - as seen by a number of eyewitnesses.

Noel, an Ireland-based journalist, has researched the disappearance of MH370 for four years, speaking to dozens of experts and studying all of the various press releases from the Malaysian government after the crash.

He explained to Daily Star Online that he has come to believe that Malaysian authorities were acting in good faith, and on credible evidence, that the plane had been hijacked.

Key to Noel's extraordinary claims are the two young men from Iran who travelled on board the flight on stolen passports. 

Pouria Nour Mohammad Mehrdad, 19, and 29-year-old Delavar Seyedmohammaderza were both on the plane and were supposedly heading to Germany via Beijing on stolen passports for hopes of a better life in Europe.

On October 11 2014, after Mehrdad had been confirmed as a passenger, Malaysia’s police chief Khalid Abu Bakar told a press conference: “We believe he is not likely to be a member of any terrorist group. We believe he is trying to migrate to Germany.”

But, Noel says, there can be no doubt the pair were on the Malaysian security forces' radar, and the fact they were eliminated as suspects by authorities within 72 hours of the plane's disappearance is suspicious.

"Two Iranians boarding a flight to Germany via China with stolen passports would send alarm bells ringing in any cops ears," Noel explained......"





PASSENGERS: Iranians Pouria Mehrdad, left, and Delavar Seyedmohammaderza (Pic: EPA)





'EXCITED': Days before MH370, Pouria posted a picture of himself in front of Petronas Towers (Pic: FACEBOOK/POURIANOURMOHAMMADI)



Richard


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Yawn. 

This is like the "hidden in the jungle" allegations, in that it makes suppositions unsupported by any facts about the aircraft, and ignores what is known.  Specifically, how does this theory account for the satellite communications with the plane as it was over the Indian Ocean?

If a theory can't account for known facts, the only value it has is as clickbait. Which is all this is.


----------



## Talent312

I was about to complain about the length of this thread.
Then I noticed the length of some others, so... why not.
I miss the old kicking-a-dead-horse emoticon.


----------



## DaveNV

Talent312 said:


> I was about to complain about the length of this thread.
> Then I noticed the length of some others, so... why not.
> I miss the old kicking-a-dead-horse emoticon.



I think until/when/if they find the plane, or what's left of it, there will always be people trying to provide answers, or leaping on the publicity bandwagon.  Kind of like with Jimmy Hoffa, Jon Benet Ramsey, and even whether the Moon Landing was real.  Lots of people have a lot of time, special interest, or they just want their fifteen minutes of fame. 

I appreciate Richard taking his time to share the latest conspiracy theories with us. I'm always curious to know what the next one will be.  

(And in the case of this latest one, I'd think it'd be a simple matter of checking the military records to find irrefutable proof they shot down the plane.  It's unlikely they'd say, "Whoops! My bad.  We didn't mean to shoot down this airliner. So we'll pretend it never happened."  Oh wait - new conspiracy theory!  )

Dave


----------



## davidvel

The pilot pointed the aircraft toward his daughter in Australia and let it run out of gas, before/after depressurizing the aircraft and incapacitating all on board.  Just another theory half as solid as all the rest.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Talent312 said:


> I was about to complain about the length of this thread.
> Then I noticed the length of some others, so... why not.
> I miss the old kicking-a-dead-horse emoticon.


There's the banging your head against a wall option: 

Or you can find one on the internet.


----------



## Panina

In this day and age, survelliance of all kinds can track most anything.  It is hard to believe that the military operations/radar/survelliance of major powers didn’t know where the plane went down.


----------



## Talent312

Google knows where it is, but they want to keep us in suspenders.


----------



## DaveNV

Talent312 said:


> Google knows where it is, but they want to keep us in suspenders.



Careful, you'll get belted.  

Dave


----------



## PigsDad

Panina said:


> In this day and age, survelliance of all kinds can track most anything.  It is hard to believe that the military operations/radar/survelliance of major powers didn’t know where the plane went down.


The ocean is a BIG space of nothing...

Kurt


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

Panina said:


> In this day and age, survelliance of all kinds can track most anything.  It is hard to believe that the military operations/radar/survelliance of major powers didn’t know where the plane went down.


Not at all hard to believe.  If tracking something doesn't lead to an opportunity for Google to place an ad on someone's browser, it won't get tracked.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 News: Experts Claim Remains 'Confirm Plane Was Brought to Controlled Stop'
By Callum Hoare/ News/ World/ Express/ express.co.uk

*MALAYSIA Airlines flight MH370’s remains – found in South Africa – reveal the doomed jet was brought to a controlled stop in the Indian Ocean, according to aviation experts investigating the plane’s disappearance.*

*MH370, *which had been travelling from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, disappeared on March 8, 2014, with 239 people on board. The Boeing 777 aircraft last communicated with air traffic control at 1.19am when the plane was flying over the South China Sea, before vanishing from civilian radar screens. In 2016, a piece of the aircraft’s wing was discovered on the African island of Mauritius.
*
This find has led aviation expert to piece together the evidence and claim MH370 was brought to a controlled stop, remaining largely intact

Larry Vance is a former investigator with the Transportation Safety Board in Canada and has spent the last four years looking into the mystery.

He revealed to Australia’s “60 Minutes” investigation team how the wing, along with the rest of the plane, would have been shattered into hundreds of pieces had a high-speed crash occurred.

He said in 2018: “What would happen in that scenario is the front of the wing would be pushed in and water would fill it, forcing it to explode. 

“This entire piece would not exist. 

“Instead we can see the flap was down at the back and that is what caused all the erosion to the design.”

Mr Vance went on to claim the flap would not be extended downwards unless it was a deliberate attempt by the pilot to land the aircraft, in a move known as ditching.

UK aviation expert and former Boeing 777 pilot Simon Hardy agrees this theory is likely....."





The piece of wing could help explain the landing of MH370 (Image: 60 MINUTES)


Richard*


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 News: New Technique Invented to Track Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane
By Abbie LLewelyn/ News/ Weird/ Express/ express.co.uk

*"A NEW technique was invented for tracking Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 after its disappearance, using satellite technology.*

*The BFO is a measure of the relative motion of the satellite and the aeroplane.

It was the first time BFO had ever been used to try and determine the location of a missing plane.

However, used in conjunction they could be used to plot out possible routes.

The plane disappeared from air traffic control radar first, a couple of minutes after radioing in the words “goodnight Malaysia 370”.

For a short time, the jet could be detected on military radar before it dropped off from there too.

Then, only communications with Inmarsat’s satellite 3F1, called ‘handshakes’ from which the BTO and BFO values could be extracted and used to track its path.

Jeff Wise, author of The Plane That Wasn’t There, said: “We had always assumed that the transponders and radios had gone dark shortly after ‘goodnight Malaysia 370’, but the sat-com system had remained active.

“After all, whoever took the plane never used the sat-com.

“They probably have no idea it’s intermittent handshake exchanges could be used to track the plane, since the technique hadn’t been invented yet.”

The fact that these techniques were used for the first time in the MH370 investigation would imply that the person who absconded with the plane would not have known to turn the sat-com off.

However, what they actually found was that the system was turned off and then on again.

At 6:03pm UTC, 42 minutes after the plane disappeared from air traffic control radar, satellite 3F1 tried to put through a text message, but MH370’s sat-com had not responded.

Then, 22 minutes later at 6:25pm UTC, MH370 initiated a log-on with Inmarsat.

This was strong evidence, at least, that the plane had not gone down due to an electrical issue......"





Data from Inmarsat's satellite 3F1 was used (Image: GETTY)


Richard
*


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Revelation: Satellite Used to Detect Location Had a 'Wobble' Which Skewed the Data
By Abbie Llewelyn/ News/ Weird/ Express/ express.co.uk

*"DATA from a satellite was used to try to locate missing flight MH370 after it mysteriously disappeared, but it was later discovered it had a “wobble” in its orbit which skewed the data.*

*The Malaysia Airlines jet vanished from radar on March 8, 2014, with 239 people on board and, to this day, has not been discovered. However, official investigators have concluded that its most likely location now is at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. This was calculated using signals exchanged between MH370 and satellite 3F1, owned by British telecommunications company Inmarsat.*
*
However, an issue was later discovered with 3F1’s data.

The satellite was old: launched in 1996, it was only meant to be in operation for around 13 years.

Running on for 5 years longer than planned, the satellite had run low on fuel it required to stay precisely on location above the equator.

According to Jeff Wise, author of The Plane That Wasn’t There, the satellite was “wobbling” during the time it was receiving signals from MH370.

During the hours the jet was missing, 3F1 was north of the equator, moving first to the north and then swinging back to the south.

Signals sent to satellites are supposed to account for sources of error, such as the movement of the aeroplane.

Mr Wise said: “One source of error is the simple fact that the aeroplane moves - a so-called Doppler Effect.

“Just as a train whistle rises in pitch when it's coming towards you, an aeroplane that’s flying towards the satellite will produce a signal that is of the designated bandwidth.

“To get over this problem, a computer within the aeroplane uses its position and speed to calculate the anticipated Doppler shift and subtracts this amount from the frequency at which it transmits to the satellite.”

The problem with this in the case of MH370 is that the signal sent to 3F1 was sending off signals based on where the satellite was supposed to be, not where it actually was, and assuming it was not moving relative to the earth’s surface.

When the plane first disappeared from radar, the angular distance between where the satellite was and where the plane thought it was was reportedly around three degrees.

This is enough to generate a velocity error of 20 knots....."









Satellite 3F1 was around 3 degrees away from where it should have been when MH370 went missing (Image: GETTY)*


*Richard*


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Shocking News: The Real Reason Flight Recorder Pings Failed to Locate the Lost Jet
By Abbie Llewelyn/ New/ Weird/ Express/ express.co.uk

*"MH370 has been missing for over four years, and despite search and rescue efforts locating a few pings from the aircraft’s flight data recorder in the Indian Ocean, it has remained unfound.*

*The Boeing 777 disappeared without a trace on March 8 2014, en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing carrying 239 people. A former navy officer and managing director of Daedalus Maritime, an independent maritime operations and marine engineering consultancy, believes he has the answer as to why it was never found. According to Daniel Holland, whilst the pings detected were genuine, they may not have been coming from as close by as originally thought.*

*He claimed that salt in the water and differing temperatures can affect the pings.

Mr Holland said: “What they were ignorant of the time and only admitted later on, was that they were picking up the pings from the recorder due to convergence zone acoustics due to the northern and southern Indian Oceans.

“What this means is, that the due to the salinity of the sea water and where warm and cold sea water meets it can allow underwater acoustics to be detected hundreds of miles away and make it sound like it is very near.”

The former navy officer claimed that this is a “very common issue” for submariners, especially when tracking targets.

He added that submariners have to do constant analysis of the water temperature and salinity just to make sure they are not chasing something miles away.

Mr Holland believes this is why they never found the wreckage of MH370 where they expected to find it in the sea.

However, he maintains that the search should be centred around the “northern airway” in the northern Indian Ocean as this is where he believes it crashed.

He said: “The reason I say this is my knowledge of tides and currents from numerous years as a navy officer, my knowledge of air traffic control theory and also from working in maritime intelligence and using numerous tools and theories daily.”....."





Phoenix Autonomous Underwater Vehicle Bluefin-21 is craned over the side of Australian vessel (Image: GETTY)


Richard
*


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 News: MH370 Submarine Searching Ocean As Ship-Wreck Hunters Believe They Could Find Jet on Seabed
By Charlotte Ikonen/ News/ World-News/ Daily Star Sunday/ dailystar.co.uk

"Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has been missing for five years after vanishing over the Indian Ocean.

Despite two large-scale searches of the sea bed off the coast of western Australia, only scattered pieces of debris have been found.

But now an expedition to the deepest parts of the world’s five oceans will explore what was a key search area for missing Boeing 777.

The Five Deeps project, launched in New York last week, will provide scientific findings from the floors of the Indian, Arctic, Atlantic, Southern and Pacific oceans and explore the little-known Diamantina Trench, about 1125km south-west of Perth.

At more than 7000m, the Diamantina Trench is one of the deepest points in the Indian Ocean and is still considered one of the most likely resting places for the wreckage of MH370.

The doomed jet – carrying 239 people – vanished en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014.

All efforts to track down the jet have failed and the missing plane’s whereabouts have remained a mystery ever since.

Experts previously calculated the most likely crash site around 1,000 miles West of Perth, Australia.


Now, extreme explorer Victor Vescovo will journey in the £68million manned submersible, Limiting Factor, and go further and deeper than any in history and to places not seen before.

If the project is successful, Mr Vescovo will become the first person to have been to the top of all the world’s continents as well as the bottom of all its oceans after last year completing the “Explorers Grand Slam”, which included climbing Mt Everest and skiing at least 100km to the North and South poles.

He will be joined in Limiting Factor by Newcastle University scientist Alan Jamieson and the pair hope to become just the fourth and fifth people to have touched down on the deepest known place on the sea floor – the Pacific Ocean’s Challenger Deep.

“The Indian Ocean sites we are going have never been explored by any vehicle, manned or otherwise, and that’s what makes these locations extremely exciting,” Dr Jamieson said......"





SEARCH: The Five Deeps Expedition (Pic: NC)


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 Shock: How Investigators Uncovered 'Evidence Captain Tried to Hide' on Home Computer
By Callum Hoare/ News/ World/ Express/ express.co.uk

*"MALAYSIA Airlines flight MH370 was crashed into the Indian Ocean after captain Zaharie Shah followed an almost identical route found wiped from the hard drive of his flight simulator at home, an investigation revealed. *

*MH370, which had been travelling from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, disappeared on March 8, 2014, with 239 people on board. The Boeing 777 aircraft last communicated with air traffic control at 1.19am when the plane was flying over the South China Sea. Minutes later, it completely disappeared from civilian radar screens during a routine handover from Malaysia to Vietnamese radio channels. *

*Analysis of radar and satellite data shows it suddenly changed course and flew back across Malaysia before turning south of Penang and then towards the southern Indian Ocean. 

This change has left investigators to believe Mr Shah was in control of the aircraft until the end and therefore deliberately crashed it. 

Australia’s 60 Minutes investigation team revealed in 2016: “A confidential analysis of Captain Shah’s home flight simulator reveals evidence the captain tried to hide by wiping his hard drive.

“A month before the doomed flight, Mr Shah plotted an almost identical route, deep into the Southern Indian Ocean. 


“A simulation which clearly contemplated the jet running out of fuel. 

“The route eerily mirrors the one believed to have been taken by MH370.”

After the report came to light, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau claimed it did show proof of planning, but was not valuable in the retrieval of the aircraft.

A statement read: “The simulator information shows only the possibility of planning......"





Zaharie Shah deleted files from his simultor (Image: GETTY/YOUTUBE)



Richard

*


----------



## MULTIZ321

5 Years On, Malaysia Open to Proposals to Resume MH370 Hunt
By Eileen Ng/ News/ AP/ apnews.com

"KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Malaysia’s transport minister said Sunday that the government is open to new proposals from U.S. technology firm Ocean Infinity or any other companies to resume the hunt for Flight 370, as families of passengers marked the fifth anniversary of the jet’s mysterious disappearance.

Ocean Infinity mounted a “no cure, no fee” search for the plane in the southern Indian Ocean in January 2018 that ended in May without any clue on where it could have crashed. But the company’s CEO, Oliver Plunkett, said in a video shown at the public remembrance event at a mall near Kuala Lumpur that the company hopes to resume the hunt with better technology it obtained in the past year.

The Ocean Infinity mission came a year after an official search by Malaysia, Australia and China ended in futility.

Plunkett said his company has better technology now after successfully locating an Argentinian submarine in November, a year after it went missing. He said the firm is still reviewing all possible data on Flight 370 and thinking about how it can revive its failed mission.

“We haven’t given up hope. ... We hope we can continue the search in due course,” Plunkett said.

Transport Minister Anthony Loke said it’s been frustrating that the two searches failed to produce any clues and that he “welcomes credible leads and also concrete proposals to resume the search.”

He told reporters later Sunday that the government is “waiting for specific proposals, in particular from Ocean Infinity.” He brushed off suggestions of offering rewards to find the plane, but said the government is willing to discuss proposals from any companies prepared to resume the search.

“There must be a proposal from a specific company ... we cannot just be out there without credible leads. That’s the most practical thing to do,” Loke said.

The plane vanished with 239 people on board on March 8, 2014, while flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Confirmed debris that washed ashore in the western Indian Ocean helped narrow the search area where Ocean Infinity focused, but it failed to uncover any evidence.

A Malaysian-led independent investigation report released last July showed lapses in the government’s response and raised the possibility of “intervention by a third party.”

Investigators, however, said the cause of the disappearance cannot be determined until the wreckage and the plane’s black boxes are found. The report reiterated Malaysia’s assertion that the plane was deliberately diverted and flown for over seven hours after severing communications......"







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

5 Years Later, MH370 is Changing How We Fly.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/08/us...aysia-flight-370-space-based-global-tracking/

Richard


----------



## Brett

amazing the plane hasn't been found yet
  (but pieces have washed up on beaches)


----------



## MULTIZ321

MIH370: Death of senior official official linked to missing parts of doomed Malasia aircraft.

https://www-express-co-uk.cdn.amppr...w.google.com%26amp_tf%3DFrom%2520%25251%2524s.

Richard


----------



## PigsDad

Wow, the conspiracy theories are coming out of the woodwork these days!  At least it makes for some entertaining reading...

Kurt


----------



## Talent312

In an age when my phone can tell me that it's been to the Mall or to Phoenix, global tracking should be a synch.
.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370 mystery as Satcom turned back ON again - 40 minutes after it 'went dark 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/mh370-mystery-satcom-turned-back-14196717.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: Rescuers 'were searching in the WRONG place' due to overlooking a VITAL factor


https://www-express-co-uk.cdn.amppr...plane-investigation-search-indian-ocean-crash.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Scientists May Have Found Possible Crash Site of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370.


https://www.news18.com/news/auto/sc...-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370-2125693.html.


Richard


----------



## Passepartout

MULTIZ321 said:


> Scientists May Have Found Possible Crash Site of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370.


Note: I'm not holding my breath on this scheme either.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: How Boeing sent warning to Malaysia Airlines over doomed jet.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/mh370-how-boeing-sent-warning-16165404.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Missing flight MH370: How air crash investigator noticed 'bright and shining clue'


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-flight-mh370-how-air-16241752.


Richard


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

MULTIZ321 said:


> Missing flight MH370: How air crash investigator noticed 'bright and shining clue'
> 
> 
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-flight-mh370-how-air-16241752.
> 
> 
> Richard


AS I mentioned a number of times upthread, any theory needs to account for all of the facts.  That's been the problem with Goodfellow's theory.  He picks the facts that support his theory, and ignores what doesn't fit. 

So - it seems indisputed that the plane followed a programmed course as it flew out over the Indian Ocean, making turns at known waypoints.  Christine Negroni, like Goodfellow, ignores that information.  And on that point the notion fails - it accounts for some facts, but not all facts.


----------



## MULTIZ321

MH370: How investigators made shocking revelation from flight data recorder.


https://www-express-co-uk.cdn.amppr...black-box-data-recorder-malaysia-airlines-spt.


Richard


----------



## davidvel

It is well established that the plane ended somewhere in the ocean, based upon the fuel onboard and location of parts that washed ashore, after having turned that direction contrary to its flight plan. Fairly close to where the pilot's daughter lived in Australia.


----------



## MULTIZ321

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Where Is It?


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/mh370-malaysia-airlines/590653/

Good synopsis.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

"Good Night. Malaysian Three-Seven-Zero:'.


https://www.theatlantic.com/press-r...malaysia-airlines-flight-370-vanished/591811/

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

Daughter ofMl1370 pilot raised alarming questions about his state of mind weeks before the plane's disappearance.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9331959/daughter-mh370-pilot-state-mind-planes-disappearance/


Richard


----------



## WalnutBaron

MULTIZ321 said:


> Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Where Is It?
> 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/07/mh370-malaysia-airlines/590653/
> 
> Good synopsis.
> 
> Richard



Richard, thanks so much for continuing to post articles on Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370. The article from _The Atlantic_ is the most thoroughly-researched and exhaustive explanation for what happened of anything I've read on this subject. And some of the most enlightening statements I read are these:


"The disappearance was an intentional act." Though not surprising, this definitive statement debunks any previous theories about some kind of massive, unexplained midair explosion. The evidence provided seems pretty convincing.
"Control of the plane was not seized remotely. Control was seized from within the cockpit."
The description of what likely happened, and how the crew and passengers were subdued by simply de-pressurizing the plane at 40,000 feet is both frightening and mesmerizing. They all just went to sleep by way of benign asphyxiation.
It's revealing that--after a delay of about a half hour during which everyone on the plane had died except someone in the cockpit who was wearing an oxygen mask--the plane's systems were switched back on and the plane was re-pressurized. Further evidence of how deliberate this act was.
I'd never read in detail the utter failure of the Malaysian government and officials. I found this statement by one of the American officials involved in the investigation to be particularly damning: "It became clear that the primary objective of the Malaysians was to make the subject just go away. From the start there was this instinctive bias against being open and transparent, not because they were hiding some deep, dark secret, but because they did not know where the truth really lay, and they were afraid that something might come out that would be embarrassing. Were they covering up? Yes. They were covering up for the unknown."
There are many relatively unknown heroes in this story, including the American Blaine Gibson from Seattle who has made it his life's work now to recover the flotsam and jetsam of pieces of the plane in places as remote as Madagascar and Mozambique, and quietly return them to the Malaysian authorities.
As was speculated early on in this mystery, the pilot seems the likely villain, and the early reports of him being a model citizen with an impeccable flying record belie deep issues in his personal life that likely caused him to develop this dastardly plan to take so many innocent lives with him into the depths of the Indian Ocean. 
Ultimately, the conclusion by the author of the story is most revealing: "The important answers probably don’t lie in the ocean but on land, in Malaysia. That should be the focus moving forward. Unless they are as incompetent as the air force and air traffic control, the Malaysian police know more than they have dared to say. The riddle may not be deep. That is the frustration here. The answers may well lie close at hand, but they are more difficult to retrieve than any black box. If Blaine Gibson  wants a real adventure, he might spend a year poking around Kuala Lumpur." How sad that a corrupt government is likely at the center of this enduring mystery--not because they conspired to cause this tragedy, but because they have conspired to cover up crucial facts that might help other international authorities to locate the wreckage and bring closure to the families.
Kudos to William Lagewiesche, the author of this piece, for his exhaustive investigative work--and to you, Richard, for sharing it with all the rest of us.


----------



## visor

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9347153/mh370-flight-pilot-agitated-frayed-nerves/

Pilot was agitated and had ‘frayed nerves’ after political hero was jailed hours before doomed flight

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## MULTIZ321

FIGHT OR FLIGHT MH370 'investigator' getting DEATH THREATS warning he will be killed if he keeps probing mystery flight disappearance.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9355779/mh370-investigator-death-threats-blaine-gibson/


Richard


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## Sandy VDH

WalnutBaron said:


> Richard, thanks so much for continuing to post articles on Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370. The article from _The Atlantic_ is the most thoroughly-researched and exhaustive explanation for what happened of anything I've read on this subject. And some of the most enlightening statements I read are these:
> 
> Kudos to William Lagewiesche, the author of this piece, for his exhaustive investigative work--and to you, Richard, for sharing it with all the rest of us.



I agree this was one of the best article I have read on this matter.  But also still now, no definitive answers.  And maybe we never will.


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## MULTIZ321

LAST POST Mysterious note 'from doomed MH370 passenger' found washed up on island beach sleuth claims.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9394093/mysterious-note-mh370-passenger-found-island-beach/.

Again, scroll down to see the story.

Here's another link to the story:
https://www-express-co-uk.cdn.amppr...irlines-plane-final-message-passengers-expert



Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 investigators discover 'mystery 90kg load' was added to the cargo flight list but not revealed
until AFT.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/95171...t-list-but-not-revealed-until-after-take-off/


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Airdate: MH370: The Untold Story.










						Airdate: MH370: The Untold Story
					

SKY News will screen a two-part doco on MH370, presented by Peter Stefanovic.




					tvtonight.com.au
				



.


Richard


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## pedro47

Thanks Richard, March 2020, it will be six (6) years and this missing planes is still MIA.


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## MULTIZ321

NEW SEARCH AREAS FOR MH370 FROM WORLD
EXPERTS.










						New search areas for MH370 from world experts - Airline Ratings
					

A group of the world’s leading search experts for Malaysia Airlines Flt MH370 have defined new areas to be searched for the missing Boeing 777. MH370 disappeared on March 8, 2014, with 239 passengers and crew aboard and while debris has been recovered the main body of wreckage has not despite...




					www.airlineratings.com
				





Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 mapping experts pinpoint new wreckage locations in huge breakthrough.










						MH370 mapping experts pinpoint new wreckage locations in huge breakthrough
					

Malaysia Airlines flight 370 disappeared on March 8, 2014, with all of its passengers and crew missing presumed dead. Several search missions to find the doomed aircraft have so far proved fruitless




					www.dailystar.co.uk
				



.


Richard


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## Talent312

Oh, Gawd. Time to let it go. 
I miss the beating a dead horse emoji.


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## WalnutBaron

On the contrary, Richard, I appreciate the updates. The loss of MH370 is the greatest aviation mystery since the loss of Amelia Earhart. Nice going.


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Australia's former PM says Malaysia believed pilot downed jet in murder-suicide 









						MH370: Australia's former PM says Malaysia believed pilot downed jet in murder-suicide | DW | 19.02.2020
					

Malaysian authorities thought "from very, very early on" that the MH370 jet that vanished in 2014 was crashed intentionally by its pilot, Australia's former Prime Minister Tony Abbott has claimed.




					m.dw.com
				



.


Richard


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## davidvel

MULTIZ321 said:


> MH370: Australia's former PM says Malaysia believed pilot downed jet in murder-suicide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MH370: Australia's former PM says Malaysia believed pilot downed jet in murder-suicide | DW | 19.02.2020
> 
> 
> Malaysian authorities thought "from very, very early on" that the MH370 jet that vanished in 2014 was crashed intentionally by its pilot, Australia's former Prime Minister Tony Abbott has claimed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.dw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Richard


This is what I've believed from the initial days. His daughter was in Australia.


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## MULTIZ321

Former pilot says he knows where doomed MH370 wreckage is located.










						Former pilot says he knows where doomed MH370 wreckage is located
					

Former pilot says he knows exactly where the doomed aircraft went down.




					www.nzherald.co.nz
				



.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: The Untold Story documentary premiers tonight on Australian Sky News. I think it will be available on You Tube.


Richard


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## WalnutBaron

MULTIZ321 said:


> MH370: The Untold Story documentary premiers tonight on Australian Sky News. I think it will be available on You Tube.
> 
> 
> Richard


I think it hasn't posted on YouTube yet. It's a two-night special, with Part 2 airing on Thursday night in Australia, so maybe it will post after the series has run on air.


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## DaveNV

I'm as curious as anyone about what happened, but is there really any new information available?  Or is this all rehashed speculation?  I'm reminded of the many MANY retellings of the JFK assassination.  The story can only be told so many ways.  Not being cynical, just curious if this is something worth trying to find and watch.

Dave


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 The Untold Story: Watch the Sky News
documentary.



			https://amp.geelongadvertiser.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/crimeinfocus/mh370-the-untold-story-watch-the-sky-news-documentary/news-story/b8e3f5fec827c9e8b2df77b5ce970a6e
		

.


Dave,  I think the documentary is worth watching.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321

Search for MH370 Revealed Ocean Crust Waves - Eos.










						Search for MH370 Revealed Ocean Crust Waves - Eos
					

Efforts to recover the missing airplane produced high-resolution bathymetry of the southern Indian Ocean that raises new ideas about how ocean crust forms.




					eos.org
				



.


Richard


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## pedro47

MULTIZ321 said:


> Search for MH370 Revealed Ocean Crust Waves - Eos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Search for MH370 Revealed Ocean Crust Waves - Eos
> 
> 
> Efforts to recover the missing airplane produced high-resolution bathymetry of the southern Indian Ocean that raises new ideas about how ocean crust forms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eos.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Richard


In other words MH370 is still missing and there is no solid clue; where this plane is located.


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## PigsDad

pedro47 said:


> In other words MH370 is still missing and there is no solid clue; where this plane is located.


Blame it on Covid-19!   

Kurt


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## MULTIZ321

Missing Flight MH370: Aviation experts think they have found crash site, call for searches to start again 










						MH370 crash site 'discovery': Call to restart search for missing flight
					

Since it went missing in 2014, the aircraft's final resting place has never been found.




					www.nzherald.co.nz
				





Richard


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## pedro47

I pray and hope that they can find this plane somedsy; to give closer to the families and friends that love one in this tragedy.  IMHO.


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## MULTIZ321

We've found it! Experts say they have located MH370 crash site.










						We've found it! Experts say they have located MH370 crash site | New Straits Times
					

KUALA LUMPUR: A group of aviation experts believe that they have located the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, more than six years after the airplane vanished on March 8, 2014.




					www.nst.com.my
				



.


Richard


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## Passepartout

How many times have we heard this or something similar? The wreckage exists, and someday it will be found, but until then, may it rest in peace. Not to diminish the loss of this aircraft and it's lives, but it sort of pales in comparison to the million or so deaths (and counting to an unknowable total) worldwide from Covid.

Jim


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## Brett

MULTIZ321 said:


> We've found it! Experts say they have located MH370 crash site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've found it! Experts say they have located MH370 crash site | New Straits Times
> 
> 
> KUALA LUMPUR: A group of aviation experts believe that they have located the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, more than six years after the airplane vanished on March 8, 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nst.com.my
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Richard



sounds like another hyped "discovery" that eventually will prove false.   But someday someone will find the wreckage -  calling Robert Ballard !


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## Beachclubmum

My favorite TUG thread. Long may she live!


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## DaveNV

I don't want to give this thread more attention that it has already had over the years, but riddle me this:  After all this time, is it realistic to expect the wreckage will be intact? Jets are pretty fragile things, compared with ships.  Presuming it suffered some structural damage on impact, isn't it likely things have been spread out by now, and a single site doesn't really exist?

Dave


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## Talent312

IMHO, this thread shows that COVID coverage is not greater than airplane-crash coverage.
.


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## Passepartout

Talent312 said:


> IMHO, this thread shows that COVID coverage is not greater than airplane-crash coverage.


Thank goodness Humor out'covers' both of them- at least on TUG!


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## Brett

DaveNV said:


> I don't want to give this thread more attention that it has already had over the years, but riddle me this:  After all this time, is it realistic to expect the wreckage will be intact? Jets are pretty fragile things, compared with ships.  Presuming it suffered some structural damage on impact, isn't it likely things have been spread out by now, and a single site doesn't really exist?
> 
> Dave



yeah, likely just the engines and parts of the fuselage remaining.  
dammit ... I added to this thread


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## DaveNV

Brett said:


> yeah, likely just the engines and parts of the fuselage remaining.
> dammit ... I added to this thread



Yes, you did.  But I thank you for contributing. 

Dave


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## MULTIZ321

MH370: Seven years on still no closure.










						MH370: Seven years on, still no closure
					

IPOH (March 7): Tomorrow marks the seventh year Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 vanished without a trace leaving many questions on what actually happened to the ill-fated plane unanswered and passengers’ family members in limbo.Some family members and next of kin of passengers on board the plane...




					www.theedgemarkets.com
				



.


Richard


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## pedro47

This tragic must be very hard on the families and friend, who have loved ones on flight MH370;
There is still no closure after seven years. What a very sad story IMHO.


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 set off radio tripwires confirming location says new report.










						MH370 set off radio tripwires confirming location says new report - Airline Ratings
					

A fascinating technology, Weak Signal Propagation, which is a digital radio communication protocol is proving a new tool to confirm the location of MH370 which disappeared just over seven years ago with 239 souls on board. Put simply, imagine you had to hike across a prairie and every 2 minutes...




					www.airlineratings.com
				





Richard


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## Talent312

"Imagine you broke into a high-security bank and to reach the vault you had to cross a room full of laser beams that you could not see and any one interruption of a laser beam would set off an alarm."
-------------------
I believe that was a movie with Michael Douglas & Catherine Zeta-Jones,
or was it a Pink Panther movie?

.
.


----------



## MULTIZ321

THREE NEW PIECES OF SUSPECTED MH370 DEBRIS REVEALED?










						Three new pieces of suspected MH370 debris revealed? - Airline Ratings
					

A source has disclosed to MH370 analyst Victor Iannello that an Italian satellite that is part of the COSMO-SkyMed constellation detected three floating objects on March 21, 2014, near where MH370 is believed to have crashed in the Southern Indian Ocean on March 8, 2014. This information was...




					www.airlineratings.com
				





Richard


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## MULTIZ321

MH370 breakthrough I Richard Godfrey knows where missing plane is : 7NEWS








Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321

British engineer shares new theory on MH370 mystery accuses pilot of taking hostages










						Watch: New sinister hostage theory in MH370 mystery
					

Expert believes he knows where the wreckage is, and why disaster unfolded.




					www.nzherald.co.nz
				





Richard


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## tombanjo

If the pilot contacted the Malaysian government that he was holding a plane of passengers hostage, waited 20 minutes in a holding pattern, then, when denied, flew back over the country, someone would have taken some sort of action.  While not releasing the radar data is not exactly open and above board, I do not see it as any sort of proof or indication they are hiding this hostage taking. It is possible that the pilot, in conjunction with someone else not on the plane or obviously connected to the flight, contacted the government to state a terrible thing would happen if the person concerned was not released,  but when denied would have made their claim clear, after the plane disappeared. For those conspiracy theorists, I doubt the government was agile enough to track down the caller and dismantle all evidence of the plot in such a short time. The mechanics of such a complicated operation don't add up. 

Still, the "trip wire" analysis seems valuable and may be correct.


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## MULTIZ321

Potential breakthrough in search for missing jet MH370








Richard


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## MULTIZ321

WHAT HAPPENED? Eerie details emerge in mystery of flight MH37O after plane disappears with 239 people onboard who are still missing










						Eerie details emerge after plane disappears with 239 people onboard
					

EERIE details have surfaced about the mystery of flight MH370, which caused 239 people to go missing. In the CNN series real-life nightmare, former cold case investigator Paul Holes looks into this…




					www.the-sun.com
				





Richard


----------



## pedro47

IMHO, it is time to closed this mystery case and let the passengers and airline crew RIP.


----------



## Brett

pedro47 said:


> IMHO, it is time to closed this mystery case and let the passengers and airline crew RIP.




I don't think the mystery will be closed until they find the airplane


----------



## Patri

pedro47 said:


> IMHO, it is time to closed this mystery case and let the passengers and airline crew RIP.


I agree. When there is any real news, the press will tell us.


----------



## Carolinian

At least they finally got cloture on the other big Malaysian airlines crash.  Three former Russian intelligence operatives were just convicted by a Dutch court for that shootdown.


----------



## MULTIZ321

New MH370 debris fnd sheds light on
shocking final moments










						New MH370 debris find sheds light on shocking final moments
					

The tragic final moments of MH370 have been brought into sharp focus with the discovery of a new piece of debris.




					thewest.com.au
				




MIGHT BE BEHIND A PAYWALL


Richard


----------



## DaveNV

MULTIZ321 said:


> MIGHT BE BEHIND A PAYWALL
> 
> 
> Richard



It is. What does it say?

Dave


----------



## MULTIZ321

DaveNV said:


> It is. What does it say?
> 
> Dave


Behind a paywall for Me too.  All I could read was this one sentence - "MH370: New debris fnd on
Antsiraka Peninsula South Beach sheds light on flight's final moments"


Richard


----------



## Passepartout

MULTIZ321 said:


> Behind a paywall for Me too.  All I could read was this one sentence - "MH370: New debris fnd on
> Antsiraka Peninsula South Beach sheds light on flight's final moments"
> 
> 
> Richard


They want a buck a day for access. If it's THAT informative, it will show up elsewhere.


----------



## MabelP

Startling New Debris Find Sheds New Light On MH370's Final Moments
					






					www.wbtw.com


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

The gist is that the landing gear was extended upon impact.  A related question, not addressed at all in the article and likely unknowable, is at what point during flight would the landing gear have been extended.  Suppose the landing gear had been extended for much of the flight.  Wouldn't that increase the fuel consumption - meaning the plane would have flown as far before crashing as has been assumed when selecting search areas?


----------



## x3 skier

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The gist is that the landing gear was extended upon impact.  A related question, not addressed at all in the article and likely unknowable, is at what point during flight would the landing gear have been extended.  Suppose the landing gear had been extended for much of the flight.  Wouldn't that increase the fuel consumption - meaning the plane would have flown as far before crashing as has been assumed when selecting search areas?


If the Gear was extended above the limit speed for extension or retraction, the Gear doors would have likely departed the aircraft. They are not designed to withstand the cruise speeds while open. The Gear themselves are pretty beefy but who knows what a 500+ MPH breeze would do to the linkages, etc.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

x3 skier said:


> If the Gear was extended above the limit speed for extension or retraction, the Gear doors would have likely departed the aircraft. They are not designed to withstand the cruise speeds while open. The Gear themselves are pretty beefy but who knows what a 500+ MPH breeze would do to the linkages, etc.


Thanks, and quite interesting.  If we assume that the above is true (which is far from given), that implies that the landing gear was lowered sometime as the plane was going down.  Could that have happened automatically, or does that suggest that some conscious person in cockpit triggered landing gear deployment?


----------



## DaveNV

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Thanks, and quite interesting.  If we assume that the above is true (which is far from given), that implies that the landing gear was lowered sometime as the plane was going down.  Could that have happened automatically, or does that suggest that some conscious person in cockpit triggered landing gear deployment?



Or did they never raise the landing gear after the last takeoff? If the pilot was suicidal, as has been speculated, he'd know exactly what was going on. It isn't as though there was a planned landing somewhere.

Dave


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

DaveNV said:


> Or did they never raise the landing gear after the last takeoff? If the pilot was suicidal, as has been speculated, he'd know exactly what was going on. It isn't as though there was a planned landing somewhere.
> 
> Dave


If what x3skier said is valid, that wouldn't be the case - the doors would have ripped off in flight. Working off of his premise, the landing doors would have been lowered some time during descent. 

Again, working with that premise, it suggests that someone was in command, to open the landing doors during the final descent.  It also raises the possibility that the plane didn't crash after running out of fuel. Rather, it might have been piloted to a specific crash location.

Why the landing gear would have been deployed for an ocean would be a mystery.  But if the presence of the landing doors indicates the doors were opened prior to the crash, the possibility that the plane was still being piloted at the time of the crash is in play.   It would also suggest that assessments of the likely crash location predicated on the plane running out of fuel might be seriously in error.


----------



## DaveNV

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> If what x3skier said is valid, that wouldn't be the case - the doors would have ripped off in flight. Working off of his premise, the landing doors would have been lowered some time during descent.
> 
> Again, working with that premise, it suggests that someone was in command, to open the landing doors during the final descent.  It also raises the possibility that the plane didn't crash after running out of fuel. Rather, it might have been piloted to a specific crash location.
> 
> Why the landing gear would have been deployed for an ocean would be a mystery.  But if the presence of the landing doors indicates the doors were opened prior to the crash, the possibility that the plane was still being piloted at the time of the crash is in play.   It would also suggest that assessments of the likely crash location predicated on the plane running out of fuel might be seriously in error.



I understand. Seems so odd to have such a relatively unrelated collection of debris found in all the searching they did, yet it has all been found in the same relative area. 

Dave


----------



## Passepartout

Something has to cause the wreckage to not be found, and the most logical explanation is that the search was in the wrong place.


----------



## DaveNV

Passepartout said:


> Something has to cause the wreckage to not be found, and the most logical explanation is that the search was in the wrong place.



Seems logical. You always find something in the last place you look. 

What I meant is that considering what wreckage they DID find, and the part of the world where it was found, would seem to go against the general area off Western Australia that I understand was a primary search area.  The Indian Ocean is very large, and there are definitely currents at play.  But if these unrelated pieces of debris washed up in such a relatively similar area, some pieces being quite large, it definitely seems like they've been looking in the wrong area. Reunion Island is more than 6000 miles from Western Australia.

Dave


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

DaveNV said:


> Seems logical. You always find something in the last place you look.
> 
> What I meant is that considering what wreckage they DID find, and the part of the world where it was found, would seem to go against the general area off Western Australia that I understand was a primary search area.  The Indian Ocean is very large, and there are definitely currents at play.  But if these unrelated pieces of debris washed up in such a relatively similar area, some pieces being quite large, it definitely seems like they've been looking in the wrong area. Reunion Island is more than 6000 miles from Western Australia.
> 
> Dave


Actually the pieces that have been found washed up in the locations predicted by oceanographers based on modeling of Indian Ocean currents.


----------



## MULTIZ321

DEBRIS FIND SHEDS NEW LIGHT ON MH370'S FINAL MOMENTS










						Debris Find Sheds New Light on MH370's Final Moments - Airline Ratings
					

A new piece of debris from MH370 has given major clues to the final tragic moments of the Boeing 777 that was lost in 2014




					www.airlineratings.com
				





Richard


----------



## x3 skier

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Thanks, and quite interesting.  If we assume that the above is true (which is far from given), that implies that the landing gear was lowered sometime as the plane was going down.  Could that have happened automatically, or does that suggest that some conscious person in cockpit triggered landing gear deployment?


I know of no system that “automatically” lowers the gear. What is automatic is gear warming when speed is slow (or fast) enough usually combined with an altitude sensor like a radar altimeter to prevent a gear up landing (or damage if in flight)). It can be a horn or the so-called “Bitching Betty” that “Speaks” to the fight deck crew something like “Check Landing Gear, Check Landing Gear”. 

Cheers


----------

