# Help me understand...bought Grand Islander from tour...



## G33KIDAD (Sep 29, 2019)

Hello all,

Been watching this site for a handful of years since after our first tour (been on three total now.)  I still feel a bit lost on determining value.

We just got back from a Lagoon tower stay and presentation and ended up buying...

Here is what they offered us:

All options would not start distributing points until 2020, with first MF payment due in 2020.

Option #1
Grand Islander - 1BR - Gold - 5100 Annual - $42,990 - $1,538 MF

Option #2
Grand Islander - 1BR - Platinum - 7200 Annual - $57,990 - $1538 MF

Option #3
Grand Islander - 2BR - Platinum Plus - 12,600 Annual - $91,990 - $2003 MF

Option #4
Grand Islander - 2BR Premier - Gold - 10,500 Annual - ($89,990 List) $76,590 - $2003 MF

We pursued option #4, and they originally threw in 34,000 bonus points.  When we hesitated and asked for more they bumped it to 51,000 bonus points that don't expire until 9/26/2021 as long as we have something booked, so they could last for an additional 9 months beyond that.

The 10,500 points is supposed to allot us the ability to stay in our assigned room during our assigned season for 7 days.  Our contract indicates we have week 19, in room 2703.  I don't know if any of this really matters.

We paid cash for this and it's all done with.

I have a rough understanding that resell is obviously much less expensive than buying from the developer.  However, we would like to obtain status as we tend to maximize those benefits in other programs we are in.  Presently we are diamond members as well.  We tend to travel two weeks a year, and like to have a total of 4-5 adults, and one child under 18 with us when we do.  We love Hawaii, and go there often but go other places as well.  I have three base questions.

1.  Approximately how good/bad of a deal did we get IN comparison to other developer purchases?

2.  Moving forward, what is the best way for us to obtain the additional points needed to obtain status and/or reduce future booking fees, etc.?

3.  What are the best/most common resell deals to look for from a structure standpoint for us to add to our point pool?

As a side note, we were heavily interested in a 3 bedroom penthouse in Grand Islander, but they were not available.  We would use this size room at least once every year.

If it's easier to post places for me to research myself, I'm more than happy to follow, but have had a difficult time finding the answers to my questions on my own and figured that the group of experts can answer quickly, or point me in the right direction.

Thank you so much for all of your time!


----------



## dayooper (Sep 29, 2019)

Are you trying to pursue Elite Status? I don’t have it, but those that do don’t think it’s worth the cost. Any resale purchase outside of a couple of resorts purchased directly from HGVC don’t count toward elite status. Any developer purchase is a hurry or deal. You can get the same unit for 25% less or better. 

Recind immediately, you have only a few days to do so. Research the difference between resale and developer units (no elite status is about it). That deal, or a better one will be available later. The ability to recind won’t be.


----------



## SmithOp (Sep 29, 2019)

Option 4 does not get you any status, HGV Elite starts at 14,000.

I don’t think you can book Penthouse without owning one at GI, you wont have enough points anyway.  Not positive but I think its the same as Grand Waikikian, have to be a PH owner.  You *might* be able to get a Lagoon Penthouse.

I think you should rescind.  Forget about HGV Elite and look for some high point resales to get the amount of points needed for the stays you want.  For what you paid with option 4 you could buy two 14,400 point units resale and still have enough to cover booking fees for 20 years!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## pianodinosaur (Sep 29, 2019)

I have Elite Plus Status.  The benefits are not worth the increased cost.


----------



## Grammarhero (Sep 29, 2019)

Rescind.  Heck of a lot of money to buy developer when you can buy resale.


----------



## TUGBrian (Sep 29, 2019)

congrats on dodging a 76,000 mistake!


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Sep 29, 2019)

Buy in Scotland. Cheap and the purchase counts towards Elite Status.
There is 9600 points for sale at Craigendarroch for £9600. The Maintenance fee will be over £1000 for 2020.
You can buy 7000 points for £3400 at Coylumbridge with a Maintenace fee of £550.
You can buy 7000 points for £6000 in Dunkeld.
All counts toward Elite status. Here is the the contact info for all 3 HGV Resorts in Scotland







John Pringle at Craigendarroch

john.pringle@hgv.com


----------



## frank808 (Sep 29, 2019)

As others have said, rescind immediately.   You could buy 5 units at scotland for under $24k USD with activation/enrollment fee.  You will also be elite premiere with that purchase and would have 3.5 times the amount of points to use and save over $52,000 dollars.  Use the $52k saved to pay the maintenance fees for the next 13 years on your 35k hgvc points.  

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Sep 29, 2019)

Not to mention that Closing cost in Scotland is £195 and add another £290 to activate each week to HGVC.


----------



## Talent312 (Sep 29, 2019)

TUGBrian said:


> congrats on dodging a 76,000 mistake!



They didn't dodge anything. They bit on this dog and won't let it go.

Perhaps we should congratulate them for spending about 3x too much.
And congratulations on those bonus points. Most will go poof in 2 years.
Then they'll be left with a TS for which they still paid way too much.
... But truth be told, we need someone to keep HGVC in business.
.


----------



## G33KIDAD (Sep 29, 2019)

Thank you all for the quick replies!   You have helped tremendously with what the next steps should be.

I have already faxed the cancellation and will be sending it via mail as well.

We will be pursuing the Scotland options that were recommended here, so thank you for the contact information as well.

The only remaining question I need to find the answer to now, is what was mentioned about not being able to book the PH at GI without owning one.  Nothing of that was mentioned when we purchased, however that doesn't mean that it is not true.  We did bring this up multiple times about wanting to stay in the PH, so they were given multiple opportunities to admit that caveat.

Thanks again to Anthony, and the others of you that supported the needed direction and feedback!


----------



## brp (Sep 29, 2019)

Anthony Schmid said:


> Buy in Scotland. Cheap and the purchase counts towards Elite Status.
> There is 9600 points for sale at Craigendarroch for £9600. The Maintenance fee will be over £1000 for 2020.
> You can buy 7000 points for £3400 at Coylumbridge with a Maintenace fee of £550.
> You can buy 7000 points for £6000 in Dunkeld.
> All counts toward Elite status. Here is the the contact info for all 3 HGV Resorts in Scotland



The one risk here for those in the US buying here is that the exchange rate comes into play. At present, the GBP is particularly weak against the dollar, but it has been as high as $2/GBP not too far back. Obviously still a lot of financial turmoil in the UK at present, but this is a consideration.

Cheers.


----------



## G33KIDAD (Sep 29, 2019)

I'm ok with the exchange rate issue, as we'll actually be purchasing something that will net what we want, and will be significantly less.  However, thank you for the reminder!


----------



## G33KIDAD (Sep 29, 2019)

I've also reached out to the three people you mentioned Anthony, so thank you!


----------



## brp (Sep 29, 2019)

G33KIDAD said:


> I'm ok with the exchange rate issue, as we'll actually be purchasing something that will net what we want, and will be significantly less.  However, thank you for the reminder!



Agreed. Still a good deal. This is just because MF/point ratio is one of the important metrics we use here and this one is subject to more than the usual set of fluctuations.

Glad you avoided the overcharges. Hope you'll become a Member and stick around!

Cheers.


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Sep 29, 2019)

The Scotland resorts will also rent out your lodge if you prefer not to use the points or week that year. They will also help sell it for you. I have attached the 2 forms


----------



## G33KIDAD (Sep 29, 2019)

Thank you Anthony!  This setup sounds too good to be true.  Why are others not doing this as well, or are they and because I'm new, I just don't know?


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Sep 29, 2019)

G33KIDAD said:


> Thank you Anthony!  This setup sounds too good to be true.  Why are others not doing this as well, or are they and because I'm new, I just don't know?


I think people are afraid of the exchange rate. I purchased when the USD to GBP rate was 1.3 and now i see it around 1.24. 
I started posting the prices on the HGVC facebook groups. 
I heard that Hilton in Scotland is receiving a a lot of calls from American buyers to become elite premier and Hilton is not happy. When I go to owners updates in Las Vegas, Park City, Utah and Orlando, not even the sales people know about this


----------



## Bao Nguyen (Sep 29, 2019)

Anthony Schmid said:


> I think people are afraid of the exchange rate. I purchased when the USD to GBP rate was 1.3 and now i see it around 1.24.
> I started posting the prices on the HGVC facebook groups.
> I heard that Hilton in Scotland is receiving a a lot of calls from American buyers to become elite premier and Hilton is not happy. When I go to owners updates in Las Vegas, Park City, Utah and Orlando, not even the sales people know about this



As right now all the affiliate properties with HGVC are good with low M/F . I'm not sure what happen when HGVC got bought ? the new investors or the affiliate properties renew their contract/agreement ? I know  it won't happen tomorrow, I'm talking 2-3 years from now.


----------



## dayooper (Sep 29, 2019)

Bao Nguyen said:


> As right now all the affiliate properties with HGVC are good with low M/F . I'm not sure what happen when HGVC got bought ? the new investors or the affiliate properties renew their contract/agreement ? I know  it won't happen tomorrow, I'm talking 2-3 years from now.



The Scotland properties are all listed as developed. Doesn’t that mean that HGVC owns those and they aren’t affiliates?


----------



## Bao Nguyen (Sep 29, 2019)

here the discussion https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/buying-into-hgvc-via-affiliate-resale.271301/

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...endarroch-lodges-fixed-week-into-hgvc.282167/


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Sep 29, 2019)

Grand Islander is a third party developed resort. If you wanted to upgrade it with HGVC they will not accept it as a trade-in. With the rumored Apollo/Diamond acquisition, I would be wary because if they won't accept as a trade-up, then perhaps 20 years down the road, they would not accept it as a deedback either.

Points values can change and if the MF increases significantly after GI sells out and the developer subsidies cease or Apollo/Diamond jacks up the rate, then the MF to point ratio would be less desirable affecting the resale value of the unit.

In addition, many GI units on the lower floors have inferior views and some look at the air conditioners on the roof.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Sep 29, 2019)

To hedge your bets you could mix a Vegas unit from the FEPS (Flamingo, Elara, Paradise or Strip) into the mix with Scotland but this may not get you Elite.

Elara may not be traded in either. The other FEPS are 100% HGVC developed.

FEPS 2 bdrm plats run about $1 a point plus closing fees of about $1500. Resales don't count toward Elite.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Sep 29, 2019)

Congrats on rescinding and saving yourself more than $50k.

Below is the points chart for GI. When I looked in the system, I didn't see availability for 3 bdrm penthouses and a few categories of 2 bdrm penthouses. Not sure how that works.

Would you consider the 3 bdrm penthouses in Lagoon Tower or Grand Waikikian? If you need peak school calendar weeks, then you might want to consider one of these resale because using points to book 3 bdrm units during peak is next to impossible. This would still save you a lot of money over the GI options and these are nicer units than what they offered you.

If you are considering one of these or other islands you should also speak with licensed resale broker, Syed Sarmaad www.advantagevacations.com  Syed is a well respected TS broker and specializes in Hawaii.

Now that you have rescinded. Slow down and take your time to research because you are still spending a lot of money resale so you want to make the best choice for your situation. Follow the 3 Rs of timeshares:

*R*escind
*R*esearch
*R*esale


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Sep 29, 2019)

Here's some of Syed's current listings for GI at a fraction of your developer price. Syed also may know of other Hawaiian units for sale that are not listed, and has listings for other Hawaiian location such as Lagoon Tower and Maui.


----------



## SmithOp (Sep 29, 2019)

G33KIDAD said:


> Thank you all for the quick replies!   You have helped tremendously with what the next steps should be.
> 
> I have already faxed the cancellation and will be sending it via mail as well.
> 
> ...



I gave you bad information on PH bookings, it only applies to Open Season.  If you can find a unit available in club season you should be able to book it.

From the Club Rules:

The Open Season Reservation Window for penthouse accommodations at GW Vacations Suites (also known as Grand Waikikian by Hilton Grand Vacations Club) and GI Vacations Suites is limited to owners of penthouse units at each respective resort and the two night minimum booking does not apply .



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Sep 29, 2019)

Here is the Hilton Grand Vacation rental site for Scotland resorts to give you more information to consider.
https://www.higvc.co.uk/
https://rentals.higvc.co.uk


----------



## Sky313 (Sep 30, 2019)

Not sure if it's a great idea to post all the prices on Facebook groups. The more people who get elite status or elite premiere status through Scotland may mean HGVC will shut it down. I hope they don't retroactively take away elite privileges either.


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Sep 30, 2019)

Sky313 said:


> Not sure if it's a great idea to post all the prices on Facebook groups. The more people who get elite status or elite premiere status through Scotland may mean HGVC will shut it down. I hope they don't retroactively take away elite privileges either.


Roughly 15 - 20 % of Scotland owners are with HGVC. The other 80% use their fixed week. Hilton did say they want more owners to join HGVC for the inventory. This also is similar to the Florida - Gulf properties, where it is almost impossible to get in their because of the same reason 


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


----------



## Sky313 (Sep 30, 2019)

Anthony Schmid said:


> Roughly 15 - 20 % of Scotland owners are with HGVC. The other 80% use their fixed week. Hilton did say they want more owners to join HGVC for the inventory. This also is similar to the Florida - Gulf properties, where it is almost impossible to get in their because of the same reason
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


Yes I understand that. Are you sure elite status (gained from Scotland resales) will be grandfathered in if they decide to block Scotland resales for counting toward elite status in the future? I don't see the reason for telling all the owner updates sales people this either. It's like bringing unnecessary attention.

From what I gathered from old posts, this idea of resales counting for elite status was nicked for US properties even from authorized resales agents. Some folks had difficulty maintaining their elite status that they formerly had. Of course correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## brp (Sep 30, 2019)

Sky313 said:


> Not sure if it's a great idea to post all the prices on Facebook groups.



Facebook is not a good idea, period.

Cheers.


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Sep 30, 2019)

brp said:


> Facebook is not a good idea, period.
> 
> Cheers.


There are many people who want to sell their timeshare. Where would you goto? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


----------



## Sky313 (Sep 30, 2019)

If you instant message individuals specifically I think that is fine. Are we talking about educating people on loopholes to get elite or reselling. Those are 2 different things. I'm all for giving info on reselling and renting.


----------



## brp (Sep 30, 2019)

Anthony Schmid said:


> There are many people who want to sell their timeshare. Where would you goto?



A reputable timeshare broker. Certainly not Facebook.

Cheers.


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Sep 30, 2019)

brp said:


> A reputable timeshare broker. Certainly not Facebook.
> 
> Cheers.


That's cool. Facebook probably sells more timeshares.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


----------



## brp (Sep 30, 2019)

Anthony Schmid said:


> That's cool. Facebook probably sells more timeshares.



Cool. Wouldn't know. Have never had a Facebook account. Good for them.

Cheers.


----------



## alwysonvac (Sep 30, 2019)

You have to call in to book the Grand Waikikian and Grand Islander penthouse units at HHV.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/grand-islander-penthouse-units-none-in-inventory.285729/


----------



## Hobokie (Oct 1, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Elara may not be traded in either.



@CalGalTraveler, can you expand on what this means? I own at elara (platinum studio plus, 3500 annual pts) and am a little nervous about this Apollo/Diamond purchase situation...


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Oct 1, 2019)

Hobokie said:


> @CalGalTraveler, can you expand on what this means? I own at elara (platinum studio plus, 3500 annual pts) and am a little nervous about this Apollo/Diamond purchase situation...



I have heard that Elara is not HGVC developed (it was developed by Westgate) so it could not be traded-in similar to GI which was developed by a third party but managed by HTVC. OTOH this may be old info as I heard that Blackstone and HGVC bought this out so perhaps it is now accepted for trade-ins?

I am still pondering whether it is better to own an affiliate or  better to stick with HGVC developed resorts with the rumored Apollo/Diamond change.

(IMO Elara is my favorite HGVC Vegas resort.)


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 2, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I have heard that Elara is not HGVC developed (it was developed by Westgate) so it could not be traded-in similar to GI which was developed by a third party but managed by HTVC. OTOH this may be old info as I heard that Blackstone and HGVC bought this out so perhaps it is now accepted for trade-ins?
> 
> I am still pondering whether it is better to own an affiliate or  better to stick with HGVC developed resorts with the rumored Apollo/Diamond change.
> 
> (IMO Elara is my favorite HGVC Vegas resort.)



When HGV and Blackstone bought out the other partners, they announced the had formed a new joint venture to make the purchase.  That joint venture in turn pays HGV to manage resort and sell the units.   While I don't have first hand experience, but based on what i have heard in the Facebook groups, i think you can trade an Elara unit in if your upgrading to a higher point Elara unit, but you can't trade it in for a different resort.


----------



## dayooper (Oct 2, 2019)

1Kflyerguy said:


> When HGV and Blackstone bought out the other partners, they announced the had formed a new joint venture to make the purchase.  That joint venture in turn pays HGV to manage resort and sell the units.   While I don't have first hand experience, but based on what i have heard in the Facebook groups, i think you can trade an Elara unit in if your upgrading to a higher point Elara unit, but you can't trade it in for a different resort.



This is how I understand it as well.


----------



## mcsteve (Oct 2, 2019)

As an owner at HGVC Elara, that is what I have been told at “owner update” presentations.


----------



## Hobokie (Oct 3, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I am still pondering whether it is better to own an affiliate or  better to stick with HGVC developed resorts with the rumored Apollo/Diamond change.


@CalGalTraveler @dayooper & @1Kflyerguy, what would you see as the benefits of one over the other (affiliate vs HGVC developed) should the Apollo buyout rumors turn out to be true? Thanks in advance!


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Oct 3, 2019)

@Hobokie For certain of the Florida Gulf resorts, Pacific Palisades which are owned by another TS company and certain other affiliates my perception is that their boards run more independently and HGVC has less control so Apollo/Diamond cannot cannot swoop in and raise maintenance fees easily if they acquire HGVC.


----------



## SmithOp (Oct 3, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @Hobokie For certain of the Florida Gulf resorts, Pacific Palisades which are owned by another TS company and certain other affiliates my perception is that their boards run more independently and HGVC has less control so Apollo/Diamond cannot cannot swoop in and raise maintenance fees easily if they acquire HGVC.



I hate to keep fueling the speculation fire but HGV can certainly increase management fees, which will leave the affiliates with a decision to stay or get a new mgt company in.  We know Apollo/Diamond charges higher fees, and we know HGV has a penchant for raising fees every year.  These fees are all separate from maintenance fees, but could spur a change.  

Check out the discussions on Kauai Beach Villas, they are changing management companies from Grand Pacific to Wyndham.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Bmoe (Oct 3, 2019)

Sky313 said:


> Yes I understand that. Are you sure elite status (gained from Scotland resales) will be grandfathered in if they decide to block Scotland resales for counting toward elite status in the future? I don't see the reason for telling all the owner updates sales people this either. It's like bringing unnecessary attention.
> 
> From what I gathered from old posts, this idea of resales counting for elite status was nicked for US properties even from authorized resales agents. Some folks had difficulty maintaining their elite status that they formerly had. Of course correct me if I'm wrong.


Can someone confirm this? I was under impression as well that as of 2019 only property bought direct from HGVC counted towards Elite status

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Anthony Schmid (Oct 3, 2019)

Bmoe said:


> Can someone confirm this? I was under impression as well that as of 2019 only property bought direct from HGVC counted towards Elite status
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk


Yes. This is correct.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


----------



## GT75 (Oct 3, 2019)

Bmoe said:


> Can someone confirm this? I was under impression as well that as of 2019 only property bought direct from HGVC counted towards



Yes, if you use the HGVC agent.  It will not count if you go through someone else.


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 3, 2019)

Hobokie said:


> @CalGalTraveler @dayooper & @1Kflyerguy, what would you see as the benefits of one over the other (affiliate vs HGVC developed) should the Apollo buyout rumors turn out to be true? Thanks in advance!





Bmoe said:


> Can someone confirm this? I was under impression as well that as of 2019 only property bought direct from HGVC counted towards Elite status
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk



I don't have a strong feeling for owning at an affiliate vs developed resort with regards to a possible buyout.  There are so many unknowns, that i would not take any action one way or the other.

I read last week that HGV reported "strong interest" from potential investors.  Its really hard to predict how any investor or merger will change things.


----------

