# Bryce and Zion National Park Trip Planning



## WinniWoman (Jan 1, 2018)

Thinking of maybe a 2019 trip to see these two national parks. Probably will be just a 7 day trip (6 nights) with 2 needed to travel from home and back, leaving 5 for the actual vacation.

I would love to see Moab and Monument Valley, and a ton of other places out that way, but I realize it is not realistic, so I narrowed it down to these 2 parks in Utah.

What is the best time of year- weather wise and less crowds?

I am thinking flying direct-non stop- into Las Vegas is the best from NY? Will not do connecting flights. Salt Lake is further from these parks I assume? Which park to do first- would that make a difference as to where we fly into?

We really like staying at a resort and at once place and also for use of a kitchen to limit eating out- but is this doable? We will be renting a car.

St George or Springdale near Zion?

How far time wise from St. George or Springdale to Bryce?

Or, should we just accept having to book 2 hotels? In the parks or out?

I will mention that we are not planning on doing major hiking or anything like that. We just want to sight see at the parks and the surrounding area.

Thanks ahead of time for your input.


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## VacationForever (Jan 1, 2018)

We stayed at Worldmark at St. George 2 years ago in early October.  Room was very spacious and we booked a 3BR for the 2 of us.  Separate story.  Early fall and late Spring temperature is ideal and you want to stay away during summer/monsoon season.  You also should not go late or early in the years as services like buses within the parks are suspended. 

We just sold our Worldmark but you can reach out to WM owners to book for you.  I do not know if they sell rentals directlly.

We drove from Las Vegas area to St. George and it was a smooth drive of about 1.5 hours.  We love Bryce very much.  Zion reminds us of Yosemite.  Bryce is maybe another hour and a half from St. George and an easy drive.  Note that temperature varies between St. George (warmer) and the parks due to elevation. There are a couple of local canyons that is less than 30 min from St George that are worth visiting. Do not forget to check out Tuacahn theatre.  It is an open air theatre with Shakespeare and Broadway plays surrounded by red rocks. 

Enjoy!


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## DaveNV (Jan 1, 2018)

I've done this trip several times.  Southern Utah is my favorite place to vacation, right after Hawaii. 

It's smart to not try and pack in too much on one trip, as there is SO much to see, if you try to do it all, you can easily miss some great things.  Save Moab (Arches and Canyonlands National Parks), and Monument Valley for another trip.

Flying into Las Vegas is best, as it's only about two hours' drive north on I-15 to St. George. A very easy drive.  (Salt Lake is at least a half-day's drive from St. George, much too far to use it as a base for your exploration.)  For the Zion end of things, staying in St. George will give you the most lodging and dining options, a big grocery store, Costco (if you're so inclined), and SG is where the timeshares are, if you'll be doing that.  Springdale is a lovely, "artsy" town right outside the west entrance to Zion, but there isn't a lot to do there once you've seen the Park and spent an afternoon exploring the area.  It's only about a 45 minute drive from St. George to Springdale, and the entrance to Zion.

Bryce is a couple of hours' drive from St. George.  My recommendation is to book a hotel there, so you can see the sunrise over Bryce Canyon.  Staying inside the park is a great way to do it, if you can book a room at Bryce Canyon Lodge.  Otherwise, there are motels right outside the Park entrance.  Ruby's Inn is a name to investigate.  They've been there in one form or another for many years.

It's easy to drive through Bryce and see the highlights without hiking.  That's why sunrise there is so nice.  Drive up from St. George one day, see the sunset over the Park, have a nice dinner, stay overnight, see the sunrise in the Park, have breakfast at Bryce Canyon Lodge dining room, then drive around some more, then make your way back to St. George and Zion.

Weather varies throughout the year.  In my opinion, late Spring is the best time to visit.  Temperatures are mild, crowds are down before school lets out, and things are green from Spring rains.  Summers can be very hot and dry, and Fall temperatures can drop considerably.  We once tried to visit Zion during Thanksgiving week, but were snowed out.

There is much more to discuss, but this will give you some ideas of where to start.

Dave


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## cowboy (Jan 1, 2018)

Don't go to Zion on Memorial Day weekend as it is really crowded. We went to Zion and Bryce the same day and had plenty of time to see them both, but we left Mesquite, Nv before dawn. Both parks are beautiful but I preferred Zion.


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## Bunk (Jan 1, 2018)

We spent a week in St George several years ago.  If you are going to stay at a time share in St George I suggest you spend two days touring Bryce (If you are staying at a timeshare, I don't think it's necessary to spend more money to spend the night at Bryce.)  When at Zion, try to visit Kolob Canyons, and if you feel up to driving a little extra, go to Cedar Breaks.  There is also a state park called Snow Canyon near St. George that was worth visiting.

If you want to spend a night away from the time share or if you are staying at hotels, I recommend going to Antelope Canyon, which is near Page, Arizona.  Antelope Canyon is spectacular.  If you have time, you can take a raft ride south of Lake Powell or visit Grand Staircase, but I am confident that Antelope Canyon will be a highlight of your trip.      https://www.antelopecanyon.com/


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## WinniWoman (Jan 1, 2018)

Bunk said:


> We spent a week in St George several years ago.  If you are going to stay at a time share in St George I suggest you spend two days touring Bryce (If you are staying at a timeshare, I don't think it's necessary to spend more money to spend the night at Bryce.)  When at Zion, try to visit Kolob Canyons, and if you feel up to driving a little extra, go to Cedar Breaks.  There is also a state park called Snow Canyon near St. George that was worth visiting.
> 
> If you want to spend a night away from the time share or if you are staying at hotels, I recommend going to Antelope Canyon, which is near Page, Arizona.  Antelope Canyon is spectacular.  If you have time, you can take a raft ride south of Lake Powell or visit Grand Staircase, but I am confident that Antelope Canyon will be a highlight of your trip.      https://www.antelopecanyon.com/




Thanks.

How many hours drive is it from St. George to Bryce?

How far is Antelope Canyon from St. George? That has always been on my list of a million things I might not ever get to see. LOL!

Also- do your recommend mid June or mid Sept.- maybe the week after Labor Day week?


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## VacationForever (Jan 1, 2018)

No June... monsoon and very hot.


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## Karen G (Jan 1, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How many hours drive is it from St. George to Bryce?
> 
> ...


St. George to Page, AZ, for Antelope Canyon is about 2 hr. 38 min (153.8 mi) via US-89 S.  Be sure to go there since you'll be so close!
St. George to Bryce Canyon 2 h 14 min (141.1 mi) via I-15 N
I think the week after Labor Day would be a good time to go.

You  might plan to go to Bryce Canyon and maybe spend the night there. Then go  to Page, AZ  2 h 37 min (150.6 mi) via US-89 S. Then go back to St. George. It's cool that there are so many beautiful sites that are close to each other.


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## Bunk (Jan 1, 2018)

Per google maps:  Worldmark St George to:
1.  Snow Canyon State Park.  about 20 minutes
2.  Zion South entrance:  About an hour
3.   Kolob Entrance of Zion:  About 40 minutes and then another hour to go on to Cedar Break
4.   Bryce Canyon Natl Park:  About 2 hours 20 minutes (I don't remember it being that long)
5.   Page Arizona:  About 2 3/4 hours.  Then about 15 minutes to Slot Canyon.
                            Also drive to Horseshoe Bend Parking Lot.
I don't know what the weather is like in June and September.  We went in early July (and also spent a few days in Moab nearly July on another trip) 
and it was hot.  I expect that mid September will be less crowded than Mid June.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 1, 2018)

I am going to plan for Sept. I have to see if I can get a rental. I already sent an email to a Worldmark owner I rented from years ago at West Yellowstone. Not sure if she is still doing the rentals or not. Will see...

Then my only decision will be how to handle Bryce in terms of staying over night or not and/or if going to Antelope Canyon is too much driving. That one for sure would have to be overnight.  Again, we only have 5 days really and I like a little breathing room and to see some other local sites as Bunk suggested that aren't too far from the resort. 

These suggestions are great. Keep them coming.


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## VacationForever (Jan 1, 2018)

We used St George as our base to visit Bryce, especially when using a timeshare.  I don't really see the need to rent an overnight near Bryce as much as we love Bryce.  Since you really only have 5 nights, I think spending 1 day at Bryce is sufficient.


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## DaveNV (Jan 1, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> I am going to plan for Sept. I have to see if I can get a rental. I already sent an email to a Worldmark owner I rented from years ago at West Yellowstone. Not sure if she is still doing the rentals or not. Will see...
> 
> Then my only decision will be how to handle Bryce in terms of staying over night or not and/or if going to Antelope Canyon is too much driving. That one for sure would have to be overnight.  Again, we only have 5 days really and I like a little breathing room and to see some other local sites as Bunk suggested that aren't too far from the resort.
> 
> These suggestions are great. Keep them coming.




Mary Ann,

The issue I have with going to Antelope Canyon from St. George is you need to have a native guide to escort you into the canyon itself.  Those tours are by appointment.  I'm not sure how far in advance, or even if, you can reserve ahead of time.  You could find yourself driving a long way for an experience that may be less than you might want it to be.  The return trip in the dark may not be something you may want to do.  Staying overnight is a better option, but then you're cutting into the five days you'll have for your vacation.  Due diligence is important.  (Also, Antelope Canyon isn't too far from Monument Valley, which is a drive-through experience on the way from Moab to somewhere else. So you could save it for that Moab trip you want to do.)

As long as you're thinking about "what if" options, consider this:

In late September 2009, we flew to Las Vegas, rented a car, and drove up to St. George.  We had an exchange into Villas at Southgate timeshare for a week.  We stayed two nights there, saw Zion and the St. George area, then we drove up to Bryce Canyon.  We detoured through Kolob Canyon on the way.  We did Bryce as I described before (sunset, dinner, stayed overnight, sunrise in the canyon, breakfast, then we headed out.) But instead of heading back to St. George, we toured Kodachrome Basin State Park, then headed east on Scenic Highway 12.  We drove the "Hogsback" along Highway 12, past blowing golden leaves from Aspen trees, past the Grand Staircase of the Escalante, and ended in Torrey, Utah.  We stayed overnight there, but drove through Capitol Reef National Park. (Amazing scenery!) The next day we went west again, and detoured down to do the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. (Overnighted in a  canyon-side rustic cabin, did sunset and sunrise over Grand Canyon.  Indescribable!)  The next day we got back to St. George, and stayed the last two nights at the time share. Then we made our way back to Las Vegas, turned in the rental car, and flew home.  So it only required one night each in three motel/lodge settings, and bookended with two nights at the beginning of the week, and two at the end at the timeshare.  It was a lot of driving (about 1500 miles by the time we were done), but it was incredible scenery.

This picture is one we took on that trip, along Highway 12.

Dave


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## Karen G (Jan 1, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Mary Ann,
> 
> The issue I have with going to Antelope Canyon from St. George is you need to have a native guide to escort you into the canyon itself.  Those tours are by appointment.


 When we went to Antelope Canyon, we just showed up at the site.  A Native guide did take us in with several other people, but we didn't need an appointment. They just sold tickets at the site and took all ticket holders inside.


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## sue1947 (Jan 1, 2018)

I was just there in Oct.  The increase in the crowds since I was last there in Oct just a few years ago is unbelievable.  Everybody and their brother (and cousins) want to go to the National Parks and Bryce and Zion are 2 of the better known ones.  I am a WM owner and was unable to get a 2 or 3 BR unit at St George until the third week in Oct.  Capitol Reef NP up by Torrey used to be unknown with lodging in Oct no problem; no more.  I had to book the last of the cabins up a year in advance before they were all gone.   It used to be that the Kolob Canyon section was uncrowded; not any more.  Moral of this story; do your planning well in advance and have back up options.
As a result of the crowds (the ranger at Zion told us visitation increased 300% after Ken Burns NP series), Zion's shuttle bus runs all year long and is the only way to get into the main valley.  It's a great thing so just plan around it.  You park at the Visitor Center or one of the lots in Springdale and then hop a shuttle bus the rest of the way.  You can hop off at one spot and walk a trail to another stop etc.  It is very convenient not to have to constantly find a parking space.  If you are driving through to the east side, you can go past the Visitor center but then have to head east through the tunnel rather than down the valley.  The east side is higher and cuts through different rock layers so definitely at least drive through that part of the park.
Bryce also has a shuttle but it isn't mandatory; but is a good idea.  You can take the shuttle to one spot along the rim and hike down and hop the bus at the other end.  There is also a shuttle that does the longer option out to the further end (the main trails/views are along a subsection of the canyon) with a Ranger which might fit your non-hiking desires.   If you aren't going to hike, then you can hit the various viewpoints, have lunch at the lodge all in an easy day and maybe have time to stop at Cedar Breaks for a sunset.  Having said that, if you are going to stay at any NP lodge, Bryce is the one to do.  Walking out from your cabin for a sunrise or sunset is fabulous. 
I have stayed in the parks and prefer (like you) to stay in one spot with a kitchen etc and do longer drives.  It's 2.5 hours to Bryce and about an hour to Zion so both are doable.  Cedar Breaks is worth a half day and makes a good combination with Kolob Canyons.  
Given your short time frame, I'd eliminate Antelope Canyon.  That's just too many hours in a car through pretty desolate country for too short of a time spent at your destination.  Save it for a trip from Flagstaff that takes in Navajo NM, Monument Valley, Natural Bridges, Hovenweep etc.  There are a lot of national park sites in the Four Corners that can make a wonderful loop trip.   If you decide to do it, you should stop at Pipe Springs NM on the way.  

Vegas is the closest airport but SLC works if the costs of flights and rental cars are better.  
Sept is still pretty hot in St George.  Cedar Breaks is at 10000' and will be substantially colder so plan accordingly.  You can be in shorts and T shirt in Zion one day sweating and hyperthermic in the shade and altitude at either Kolob Canyon or Cedar Breaks so make sure you bring clothes for both.  

Sue


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## WinniWoman (Jan 1, 2018)

The aspens are gorgeous! Thanks, Dave. I kind of like the idea you had about staying at Bryce overnight. Being either way it is doable from St. George, I am not too concerned.

I agree, that as amazing as Antelope Canyon is, it just might be too much to include on this short trip. Then again, I am not sure if I will ever be coming back out- don't think there are any nonstop flights to Moab and we all know I only do nonstop flights! LOL! Unless can do it from Salt Lake. But that's another story...

If I do not stay over at Bryce I suppose the stay over could be at Antelope Canyon. I will have to research it further. I don't want to put too much on our plate. 

I really don't want to cram things in and overdo it on driving. My husband and I do enough driving everyday for work as it is. Also, we find it exhausting just getting to and from airports and all that stuff and we like being out of a car as much as possible on vacation. We do not want to rush or put pressure on ourselves. Our day to day lives have enough of that. 

On some of our last fly to vacations, which were the same length as this one will be, we even allotted a "do nothing" day- usually the last day before flying out. This way we could regroup for the trip home, pack, maybe lounge a bit by the pool, browse little shops in town, go to dinner, maybe a last minute close by sightseeing outing, etc. 

My husband and I are homebody types- we like hunkering in even when we travel. That is why staying at one place for a week is our preferred way and definitely in a condo. We did it in Yellowstone/Teton and in Rocky Mountain NP. We did it in Acadia- staying several hours away at The Samoset. We do it most everywhere we go, including our home resorts. Not to say we do not like exploring because we most certainly do. We travel out a ways- but we always come back.

I can be a maniac when it comes to sightseeing. I have endless lists of things to see and do everywhere I go. I want to do everything. There's always one more thing that is "not too far". Then I have to smack myself and tell myself to snap out of it. LOL!

Anyway, thank you for that great itinerary! I have to get my map out to get a better idea of what you described.

On another note, has anyone ever heard of a resort called Coral Springs in St. George? I do not think it is a timeshare, but it is a condo resort with reasonable rates and good reviews on Trip Advisor for the most part.

I have also been looking on Home Away and there are some pretty decent looking condos for rent at very reasonable rates.

One more thing, being I am not a very experienced flyer, does it matter airfare- wise, if you fly out- let's say on a Sunday, but then fly back on a Saturday? That is how I want to set up my lodging so I can have the day before we fly out to pack and have the day after we get back to get organized and ready for the work week. 

Damn work gets in the way of my life.....(but not the paycheck! LOL!)


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## DaveNV (Jan 1, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> The aspens are gorgeous! Thanks, Dave. I kind of like the idea you had about staying at Bryce overnight. Being either way it is doable from St. George, I am not too concerned.
> 
> I agree, that as amazing as Antelope Canyon is, it just might be too much to include on this short trip. Then again, I am not sure if I will ever be coming back out- don't think there are any nonstop flights to Moab and we all know I only do nonstop flights! LOL! Unless can do it from Salt Lake. But that's another story...
> 
> ...




Your points are all well taken.  Don't let those of us who want to dump everything in your lap change your mind.   It's a great area, and I never tire of seeing it.

Your initial idea of seeing just Zion and Bryce will work well with your desire to stay in one spot, and "hunker down."  Get any accommodations you like for the week, plan one overnight at/near Bryce Canyon, and do the rest in and around St. George.  Spend a day or two to get your bearings, seeing SG and Zion, do the overnight at Bryce, than back to SG for the rest of your time. Plan your flight home late enough in the day to give you time to drive down to Las Vegas without being rushed.

There is much to explore in the SG area, as previously mentioned.  Snow Canyon is beautiful, and not far away. There is lot of "red rock" scenery in and around St. George, so a side trip while on your way to the grocery store is not out of the question.  There is a dinosaur museum there, with dinosaur tracks from the riverbank that used to flow though the area.  Pretty cool to see. Much more to do than I can recall.  This website may have some ideas: https://www.visitutah.com/places-to...MIzceIzfu32AIVCMZkCh2rSwvHEAAYASAAEgJbT_D_BwE

Planning is half the fun. 

Interesting about Coral Springs Resort.  It's located right on the same property as a condo I looked into buying a few years ago.  I wondered what the rest of the construction was all about.  It's a convenient area, close to everything, but be advised:  The town of Hurricane (locals pronounce it "hurri-CUN") can be kind of windy - hence the name. There is less to do there than in St. George, but you're only a few miles north.  Drive down Telegraph Road into Washington, Utah, and you're at the north end of St. George proper.  You don't even need to get on the freeway.)  There isn't anything much within walking distance of Coral Springs Resort, so you'd need to get in the car to get to anything you might want to do.  Not a biggie, but it's not so much of an "urban" setting.

Dave


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## geoand (Jan 1, 2018)

All I can tell you is that the crowds may be unbelievable.  We were there in March 2015.  Crowds were unbelievable.  We asked a waitress at lunch about the crowds and is it always this bad.  She told us that on Presidents day they had to close the park to incoming cars at noon because there were no parking spots available anywhere in the park.  So that day they were metered in as cars left.  On our visit that day, we did have difficulty finding a parking spot.  We stayed at Bryce Canyon for our visit to both parks.


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## geist1223 (Jan 1, 2018)

In June 2015 we did Bryce Canyon and Zion while staying at the Worldmark in St. George. The weather was gorgeous and dry. We did not do sunrise or sunset at Bryce. The Folks at the Visitor Center recommended (we were not going to do any hiking) that we drive to the end of the road and spend a lot of time there. Then stop at every View Point on the way back.

We were mainly staying at Park City for birth of 1st Granddaughter. We drove the long route from Park City to St George via Capitol Reef. We could spend days just driving around southern Utah and stopping to see the scenery. We got delayed between Capitol Reef and St George by a Cattle Drive. They were moving herd to summer pasture using the State Highway


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## Karen G (Jan 1, 2018)

An extra beautiful spot you'll pass through on your drive on I-15 from and to Las Vegas (if you fly into LV) is the Virgin River Gorge.  It's quite amazing.


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## MuranoJo (Jan 2, 2018)

geoand said:


> All I can tell you is that the crowds may be unbelievable.  We were there in March 2015.  Crowds were unbelievable.  We asked a waitress at lunch about the crowds and is it always this bad.  She told us that on Presidents day they had to close the park to incoming cars at noon because there were no parking spots available anywhere in the park.  So that day they were metered in as cars left.  On our visit that day, we did have difficulty finding a parking spot.  We stayed at Bryce Canyon for our visit to both parks.


Reading your note and Sue1947's post, I'm disheartened to hear how crowded things have gotten, but it doesn't surprise me.
I had just been thinking about checking all those areas out again as it's been quite a few years since visiting, but maybe I should just be thankful we saw the parks back before all the crowds and let it go.  Even one of my favorites, Capitol Reef, wow.


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## klpca (Jan 2, 2018)

We just did a 5 day trip last November. We visited Zion, Bryce, and Capitol Reef. We drove from San Diego. Obviously not enough time, but we ticked off some bucket list items - the Narrows, sunrise at Bryce (at 8 am lol), and seeing the fall colors in CR. While you could stay in St. George and use it as a base, (personally) I would not - just because of the driving time involved on such a short trip. We stayed in Springdale for the Zion portion of the trip and because it was a last minute trip, couldn't get into our first choice, the Cable Mountain Lodge http://cablemountainlodge.com/ but it is an amazing location, walking distance from the entrance. You can walk out your door and be in the park. While in Zion, you will be relying on the buses, so being right there instead of commuting makes a lot of sense. In Bryce we stayed at the Lodge. We loved the colors at both sunset and sunrise, so if you are commuting, both drives will be done in the dark. You are coming such a long way - it's not that much extra money to stay right in the parks and maximize your sightseeing time. Not criticizing anyone else's opinion - just thinking outside the timeshare box for this particular trip.


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## klpca (Jan 2, 2018)

MuranoJo said:


> Reading your note and Sue1947's post, I'm disheartened to hear how crowded things have gotten, but it doesn't surprise me.
> I had just been thinking about checking all those areas out again as it's been quite a few years since visiting, but maybe I should just be thankful we saw the parks back before all the crowds and let it go.  Even one of my favorites, Capitol Reef, wow.


Btw, they were closing the entrance to Zion about 9:30am this week because of overcrowding. It helps to follow the facebook pages of the individual parks for information. We had few issues in early November. You couldn't pay me to visit during the summer. There are other great state parks nearby with very few visitors. We really enjoyed Kodachrome Basin State Park. https://stateparks.utah.gov/parks/kodachrome-basin/ It was a ghost town when we visited. Go where the people don't go. There is plenty to see.

FYI, we just returned from Yosemite. It was a zoo getting in and out and we were thankful to be staying in Yosemite West instead of commuting in from outside the park every day. There was a line to get in to the southern gate (via Oakhurst) this morning of about 50 cars minimum. Once in the park, we checked out hikes that were very clearly indicated on the map but were not the "main attractions". We had the trails to ourselves. Our kids hiked to the top of Yosemite Falls with hordes of people. So you have a choice.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 2, 2018)

All this talk of crowds is making me nervous. If you see my post on Daves' thread about hating crowds you will know why..

We haven't had to deal with crowds at national parks ever in the past- maybe we were lucky- I don't know- but we did get to the parks' entrances as soon as they opened.

I can't believe these parks are so crowded even in winter. Crazy..


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## WinniWoman (Jan 2, 2018)

klpca said:


> We just did a 5 day trip last November. We visited Zion, Bryce, and Capitol Reef. We drove from San Diego. Obviously not enough time, but we ticked off some bucket list items - the Narrows, sunrise at Bryce (at 8 am lol), and seeing the fall colors in CR. While you could stay in St. George and use it as a base, (personally) I would not - just because of the driving time involved on such a short trip. We stayed in Springdale for the Zion portion of the trip and because it was a last minute trip, couldn't get into our first choice, the Cable Mountain Lodge http://cablemountainlodge.com/ but it is an amazing location, walking distance from the entrance. You can walk out your door and be in the park. While in Zion, you will be relying on the buses, so being right there instead of commuting makes a lot of sense. In Bryce we stayed at the Lodge. We loved the colors at both sunset and sunrise, so if you are commuting, both drives will be done in the dark. You are coming such a long way - it's not that much extra money to stay right in the parks and maximize your sightseeing time. Not criticizing anyone else's opinion - just thinking outside the timeshare box for this particular trip.




That Cable Mountain Lodge looks wonderful. Right now it doesn't look like they are taking reservations this far ahead. My main concern with that is the distance from and to the airport in Vegas 2 1/2 hours after a long traveling day from NY is a bit much. Then again it only seems to be an extra half hour. (there I go again- "only an extra half hour". LOL!). Certainly an option I am considering.

Meanwhile, a Worldmark owner I rented from a long while ago said she could book me into St. George.
 I sent an email also to Cable Mountain Lodge also just to see. A lot to think about.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 2, 2018)

Great thread, Mary Ann...thanks for starting it! I've been to Bryce and Zion, but it was ages ago and I'd love to take my DW to see these amazing places. So I am an admitted "lurker" on this thread and enjoying, like you are, all of the great comments and ideas generated by your post. Now if I can only figure out how to hire NW Dave to be my tour guide whenever we decide to make this trip...


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## WinniWoman (Jan 2, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> Great thread, Mary Ann...thanks for starting it! I've been to Bryce and Zion, but it was ages ago and I'd love to take my DW to see these amazing places. So I am an admitted "lurker" on this thread and enjoying, like you are, all of the great comments and ideas generated by your post. Now if I can only figure out how to hire NW Dave to be my tour guide whenever we decide to make this trip...



Dave is great, isn't he?!


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## klpca (Jan 2, 2018)

It was crowded this week because it was a holiday. The crowds affect four things - the entrance to the park because everyone has to pay, parking (ugh), the gift shops because everyone wants a souvenir, and the most popular, easy to see attractions (waterfalls for example). Stay away from those things best as you can and you will be fine.

Here is  video of Zion that I have posted before. Based upon the description at the end, this was filmed about the same time that we visited (early Nov 2016). It was beautiful and uncrowded.


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## DaveNV (Jan 2, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> Great thread, Mary Ann...thanks for starting it! I've been to Bryce and Zion, but it was ages ago and I'd love to take my DW to see these amazing places. So I am an admitted "lurker" on this thread and enjoying, like you are, all of the great comments and ideas generated by your post. Now if I can only figure out how to hire NW Dave to be my tour guide whenever we decide to make this trip...



Remember that "Adopt me?" comment in the other thread?   

Dave


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 2, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Remember that "Adopt me?" comment in the other thread?
> 
> Dave


I do! I'm pretty sure we could work out a deal here, Dave!


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## sue1947 (Jan 2, 2018)

Don't let the overcrowding stop you from going.  Just do your homework and work around it.  We were there Sunday through Thursday and were in the park by 8-9 am each day.  Get to the park early and park your car.  Then hop on the shuttle buses and enjoy.  The trails that get all the attention will be crowded especially in the afternoon.  So go early and avoid the crowds.  In the afternoon, head for the lesser known areas like East Zion or Rainbow Pt at Bryce.  At Bryce, most of the crowds are at Sunrise and Sunset Points.   I know you said you won't do any hiking, but at least walk the rim trail from Inspiration down to Sunset Pt; you'll avoid the crowds until you get to Sunset.   I consider at least a short hike down into the formations a must do.  Drop down a short ways from Sunrise or Sunset Point and loop back up to the other or do a short in and out; just do it in the morning.  The crowds don't really get going until closer to noon so if you get up early and get out you will avoid a lot.   Then head to Rainbow Point at the far end in the afternoon.  

Sue


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## WinniWoman (Jan 2, 2018)

sue1947 said:


> Don't let the overcrowding stop you from going.  Just do your homework and work around it.  We were there Sunday through Thursday and were in the park by 8-9 am each day.  Get to the park early and park your car.  Then hop on the shuttle buses and enjoy.  The trails that get all the attention will be crowded especially in the afternoon.  So go early and avoid the crowds.  In the afternoon, head for the lesser known areas like East Zion or Rainbow Pt at Bryce.  At Bryce, most of the crowds are at Sunrise and Sunset Points.   I know you said you won't do any hiking, but at least walk the rim trail from Inspiration down to Sunset Pt; you'll avoid the crowds until you get to Sunset.   I consider at least a short hike down into the formations a must do.  Drop down a short ways from Sunrise or Sunset Point and loop back up to the other or do a short in and out; just do it in the morning.  The crowds don't really get going until closer to noon so if you get up early and get out you will avoid a lot.   Then head to Rainbow Point at the far end in the afternoon.
> 
> Sue




Thanks! We are definitely early birds and that is always our strategy- get to the parks early. Has always worked well for us in the past. And- yes- as long as the walks/short hikes are somewhat easy and not too steep for a long length, we will do them.


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## Cornell (Jan 2, 2018)

I have done this trip twice.  The drive from Las Vegas is very easy.  Both times I've done this I have spent one night in LV either as we arrived or when we departed to make traveling easier.  I hate LV but discovered that there are some really nice non-casino hotels in LV right near the strip.  Both of my trips I made my home base Kanab, UT.  Kanab is a low-key, cool , laid-back town.  If you like animals (domesticated animals like dogs, cats), you should spend a day (or half-day) visiting Best Friends Animal Sanctuary.  It is the largest, no-kill animal shelter in the US.  Truly life changing.  Their property is gorgeous and you can take a tour of their property.  It is life-affirming!  This is the sanctuary where Michael Vick's dogs were taken after they were rescued.  You will be uplifted if you visit.  Check out bestfriends.org.  You can even volunteer during your visit if you choose to do so.


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## Cornell (Jan 2, 2018)

Also -- I stayed in rentals in Kanab that I got via VRBO.  One was so-so. The other was absolutely awesome.  An adorable one bedroom cabin that had everything we could possibly need.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 2, 2018)

Well, here is what I did today. I called up Cable Mountain Lodge (thank you, klpc!) because I hadn't yet gotten an email response from them nor a reply to my Facebook message (Yes- I know- I am very neurotic and impatient!).

The gentleman who answered the phone told me they did not yet have their 2019 rates yet- probably wouldn't until September 2018. But- he said he could still make a reservation for me. Then he put me on hold to ask his manager if he could give me the 2018 rates because he needed to take a deposit from me. She said he could. Also, you have up to 3 days before check- in to cancel and get a full refund on the first night deposit. So- I booked a Sunday to Saturday- the Sunday after Labor Day check-in. I took the more expensive Parkside View suite because it has a view compared to a slightly cheaper suite without one. It was twice what we would have paid if we had the Worldmark owner book us in St. George and even lot more expensive then just renting a place from Home Away. I was really hoping for less expensive lodging. But the more I thought about it, not having to do the drives from St. George to Zion and Bryce will be worth it. (I paid the same when I booked directly at Rams Horn this past June.)

On our other most recent national park trips- like Yellowstone and Rocky Mountain- we stayed right outside the gates and it was great. And we were still able to make a few day trips elsewhere from those locations.  Yes, we now have a further drive to the airport (though I think it is probably just like an 1/2 hour more- not sure), but hopefully I can get decent flight times to help with that.

Also, the man I spoke with at the resort said Bryce is a 2 hour drive from there. So that will be ok. I figure 2 days in Zion tops and 1 day in Bryce. Another day exploring around as per some suggestions received here and another left for spontaneity.

Even though I love the idea of staying over night in Bryce I did not want to start with checking out of the resort and then checking in at Bryce and then having to go back to the resort and check in again. Taking our clothes and all that. So we will just do a day trip there and be happy without the sunrise and sunset I guess. I am sure it will be great nonetheless.

One thing, the man told me the temperatures average around 100 degrees that time of year, so I am concerned about that as my husband and I both hate extreme heat. He said I could change the dates anytime as long as they have the availability, so I don't know if I should make it later in Sept. or not.

I love having my lodging squared away for vacations, even if they are well over a year away! LOL! I am a real timeshare owner I guess! Never got the pre-planning bug out of me! But it's just so much fun! Made my first day back to work bearable! (does anyone else get excited about something that is so far away?)


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## DaveNV (Jan 2, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> I love having my lodging squared away for vacations, even if they are well over a year away! LOL! I am a real timeshare owner I guess! Never got the pre-planning bug out of me! But it's just so much fun! Made my first day back to work bearable! (does anyone else get excited about something that is so far away?)



Those are good options.  I'm sure the location is awesome.  Springdale is a fun little town, (all three blocks of the one street), great galleries, interesting restaurants, lots of souvenir shopping. (I'm sitting here looking at a beautiful native-inspired pot we got from a nice gallery there.  Very Navajo-like piece, but I'm sure it's not made by native artists.)  Yes, it'll be a drive back to the freeway to get down to St. George or up to Bryce, but that drive is kind of nice, and the roads are good.  Scenery is pretty awesome all over the area. Someone mentioned Kanab - it's a town south on Highway 89 from the east entrance to Zion.  Lots of old western movies were filmed there, (think John Wayne era.)  If you find yourself on the east side of Zion and you head north on 89, a stop in Panguitch is always fun - very rustic, authentic country town.  (If it's still there, Buffalo Java had excellent coffee and pastries.)  Your timing in September is about all you can control, if you need that time of year.  It'll get cooler as you get later in the month, but too late could get you into early Fall storms. When we did the big trip I mentioned above, it was the last week in September, windy but warm.  So not too bad.  Bryce is a lot higher than Zion, and the weather will probably be a bit different.  Dress in layers, and peel off or on as needed. 

Now that you've got your lodging settled, you can look into the things you'll want to do in the area.  Planning is a big part of the fun, and there is plenty to do in the area. 

Dave


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## Cornell (Jan 2, 2018)

Adding on to ^^.  Springdale is an awesome town.  Forgot about that place.  It's got a great vibe to it.  Recommend stopping in!!!!  All my memories are coming back of my trips there.  You will have a great time.  I have a few pieces of Native-American jewelry that I purchased in Kanab that I love to wear.  So much to see and do in that entire area of Southern Utah.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 2, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Those are good options.  I'm sure the location is awesome.  Springdale is a fun little town, (all three blocks of the one street), great galleries, interesting restaurants, lots of souvenir shopping. (I'm sitting here looking at a beautiful native-inspired pot we got from a nice gallery there.  Very Navajo-like piece, but I'm sure it's not made by native artists.)  Yes, it'll be a drive back to the freeway to get down to St. George or up to Bryce, but that drive is kind of nice, and the roads are good.  Scenery is pretty awesome all over the area. Someone mentioned Kanab - it's a town south on Highway 89 from the east entrance to Zion.  Lots of old western movies were filmed there, (think John Wayne era.)  If you find yourself on the east side of Zion and you head north on 89, a stop in Panguitch is always fun - very rustic, authentic country town.  (If it's still there, Buffalo Java had excellent coffee and pastries.)  Your timing in September is about all you can control, if you need that time of year.  It'll get cooler as you get later in the month, but too late could get you into early Fall storms. When we did the big trip I mentioned above, it was the last week in September, windy but warm.  So not too bad.  Bryce is a lot higher than Zion, and thew eater will probably be a bit different.  Dress in layers, and peel off or on as needed.
> 
> Now that you've got your lodging settled, you can look into the things you'll want to do in the area.  Planning is a big part of the fun, and there is plenty to do in the area.
> 
> Dave




Thanks, Dave! Good info on that town of Kanab. My husband would love that- he loves all the old western movies! 

At this point, I do not even know which end of Zion the resort is at and I have no sense of direction because I have yet to pull out my map!

I think we will have enough to do for a week for sure. I will be printing out this entire thread at some point to take all the ideas with us! LOL! I even wonder if we will even have time to go to St George now! Ha! Ha! 

I will leave my Sept. dates I have booked for now. We could do June (someone said it is very hot then also and monsoons; someone else said when they were there in June it was dry and beautiful) and we could do later in Sept or even Oct. The National Park Service said monsoon season is mid July to mid Sept. The guy on the phone at the resort said it is very hot in Sept. but the week right after a holiday is usually less people. He also said December is great because no one is there and it is cool and doesn't necessarily snow a lot. But then he said he could tell me this and it could snow a lot.  It is all so unpredictable. But like you said there could be early Fall storms if we went later. My head spins with this so I am leaving well enough alone for now. Hey- there is a nice pool at the resort and I love to be in water- especially if it is hot. 

Do you know where the closest supermarket is to where we will be staying? Just for breakfast stuff, lunch meat and simple dinner items- like frozen meals, or pasta, salad, etc.?


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## sue1947 (Jan 2, 2018)

Springdale is on the south side of Zion and on the west side of the main part of the park.  The park continues west in 2 sections that are less visited.  The furthest west is the Kolob Canyon with access off of I-15.  The middle section is Kolob Terrace.  
From the Cable Mtn lodge, you will be able to walk out to catch the shuttle bus through town to the Visitor Center and then shift to the Valley shuttle system.  Easy peasy.
The shortest and more scenic route to Bryce is not out to I-15, but drive through Zion and the tunnel along Highway 9 and then north on 89.  
If you don't like hot temps, then don't go to the desert that early.  All that rock radiates the heat out so hot days are really hot.   October will be much much better.  We were there Oct 15-20 and the temps were in the 80's.   

Sue


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## klpca (Jan 2, 2018)

sue1947 said:


> Springdale is on the south side of Zion and on the west side of the main part of the park.  The park continues west in 2 sections that are less visited.  The furthest west is the Kolob Canyon with access off of I-15.  The middle section is Kolob Terrace.
> From the Cable Mtn lodge, you will be able to walk out to catch the shuttle bus through town to the Visitor Center and then shift to the Valley shuttle system.  Easy peasy.
> The shortest and more scenic route to Bryce is not out to I-15, but drive through Zion and the tunnel along Highway 9 and then north on 89.
> If you don't like hot temps, then don't go to the desert that early.  All that rock radiates the heat out so hot days are really hot.   October will be much much better.  We were there Oct 15-20 and the temps were in the 80's.
> ...


I agree - Sept is too hot for me. I'd look at Oct-Nov personally. We went through Zion to get to Bryce. It was a spectacular drive.


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## klpca (Jan 2, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Do you know where the closest supermarket is to where we will be staying? Just for breakfast stuff, lunch meat and simple dinner items- like frozen meals, or pasta, salad, etc.?


There's a little local market right in Springdale.  Everything in Springdale is on one street. You will drive right by it on your way the lodge.


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## WinniWoman (Jan 2, 2018)

sue1947 said:


> Springdale is on the south side of Zion and on the west side of the main part of the park.  The park continues west in 2 sections that are less visited.  The furthest west is the Kolob Canyon with access off of I-15.  The middle section is Kolob Terrace.
> From the Cable Mtn lodge, you will be able to walk out to catch the shuttle bus through town to the Visitor Center and then shift to the Valley shuttle system.  Easy peasy.
> The shortest and more scenic route to Bryce is not out to I-15, but drive through Zion and the tunnel along Highway 9 and then north on 89.
> If you don't like hot temps, then don't go to the desert that early.  All that rock radiates the heat out so hot days are really hot.   October will be much much better.  We were there Oct 15-20 and the temps were in the 80's.
> ...




Thanks. I will think about the dates more. 

As for Bryce, I thought you can't drive through Zion? That is why you have to take shuttles I thought.


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## DaveNV (Jan 2, 2018)

On your way to Springdale you'll drive through both Hurricane and Virgin. There are grocery stores in both towns. In Springdale itself, you're staying about a mile from a grocery store. Everything is right along Highway 9 through town.  Google maps will show you this:





Dave


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## Karen G (Jan 2, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> As for Bryce, I thought you can't drive through Zion? That is why you have to take shuttles I thought.


 You can drive on the main road that goes through the park, but they have the shuttles to take you around once you're inside the park. Also there wouldn't be room for all the cars to park at each stop if everyone was driving around inside the park. There are entrances to the park on both the west and east sides. You definitely want to go through the park and then north on highway 89 to get to Bryce Canyon.  Here's a website describing the route between parks:  https://www.visitutah.com/plan-your-trip/recommended-itineraries/mighty5/rivers-redrock/


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## sue1947 (Jan 2, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> As for Bryce, I thought you can't drive through Zion? That is why you have to take shuttles I thought.



The main part of Zion is a valley that dead ends at the Zion Narrows.  The shuttle bus runs through this valley.   The Visitor Center is at the mouth of the Valley.  The road (highway 9) goes from the Visitor Center for a few miles and then hangs a right at an intersection.  A left turn here continues down the Valley and at that point, the road is closed to all traffic unless you are staying at the lodge.  Most of the well known sites are further down that road.  Taking the right turn (which is essentially straight on the main road) switchbacks up and then through a narrow tunnel to the east side of the park and then out to Highway 89.  The tunnel is a bottleneck.  It was built when cars were smaller.  Now any wide car/trailer/boat etc requires traffic be stopped in the opposite direction.  A Ranger is stationed at each end of the tunnel and stops traffic whenever a larger vehicle comes along.  You may get through without stopping, but most of the time there will be a short wait here.  
Look at the map of the valley here: https://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/upload/Shuttle-map_7_7_17.pdf. stop #3 is where the road is closed.  Look closely to see the black line indicating the road to the right that heads up to the Mt Carmel tunnel.   

Sue


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## DaveNV (Jan 2, 2018)

The drive up through the tunnel is kind of cool, at least for the passenger. 

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Jan 3, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> The drive up through the tunnel is kind of cool, at least for the passenger.
> 
> Dave




Uh, oh...is hubby going to like this drive? LOL!


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## DaveNV (Jan 3, 2018)

mpumilia said:


> Uh, oh...is hubby going to like this drive? LOL!



It depends on how comfortable he is behind the wheel.  The tunnel itself is not bad, if the driver pays attention.  Any experienced driver will be fine with it.  The tunnel is cut through the mountain as it winds its way up and out of the canyon to the mesa on the east side of the park.  It's long enough that they have large "windows" every so often that give a view out over the canyon below. It's an unusual tunnel, and a remarkable piece of engineering, but it's not what I would consider dangerous.  The comments above about having to wait for one-way traffic is due to the overhead clearance.  Tall vehicles, like RVs or big trucks, need to straddle the center line to get the highest part of the tunnel.  Passenger cars have no trouble.  Since the road through the tunnel is Highway 9, the Rangers need to keep traffic moving.  It's a very well-managed process, and your husband won't have any trouble.  Bonus: You get to see those peek-a-boo views out the "windows."  

Watch this video:  




Dave


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## WinniWoman (Jan 3, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> It depends on how comfortable he is behind the wheel.  The tunnel itself is not bad, if the driver pays attention.  Any experienced driver will be fine with it.  The tunnel is cut through the mountain as it winds its way up and out of the canyon to the mesa on the east side of the park.  It's long enough that they have large "windows" every so often that give a view out over the canyon below. It's an unusual tunnel, and a remarkable piece of engineering, but it's not what I would consider dangerous.  The comments above about having to wait for one-way traffic is due to the overhead clearance.  Tall vehicles, like RVs or big trucks, need to straddle the center line to get the highest part of the tunnel.  Passenger cars have no trouble.  Since the road through the tunnel is Highway 9, the Rangers need to keep traffic moving.  It's a very well-managed process, and your husband won't have any trouble.  Bonus: You get to see those peek-a-boo views out the "windows."
> 
> Watch this video:
> 
> ...




Thanks. Well, he drives yearly through Smugglers Notch around the big boulders in the narrow, windy roadway. And he does it at night as well when we go into Stowe for dinner and the theater.  So he should be ok.

In Rocky Mountain National Park, I ended up sitting behind him for some of the ride on Trailridge Road because of my fear of heights! LOL!


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## Erin Bates (Jan 29, 2018)

This doesn't have anything to do with planning the vacation but when we were in Moab a year ago the thing that blew us away is how empty the state was and then you get to Moab and it was very well trafficked and we only heard English spoken by 3 groups we passed. Maybe it was unusual but maybe out of 100 groups we passed. It has a huge international pull, so I guess that means if they came from oceans away to see it then it's worth it.


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## DaveNV (Jan 30, 2018)

Erin Bates said:


> This doesn't have anything to do with planning the vacation but when we were in Moab a year ago the thing that blew us away is how empty the state was and then you get to Moab and it was very well trafficked and we only heard English spoken by 3 groups we passed. Maybe it was unusual but maybe out of 100 groups we passed. It has a huge international pull, so I guess that means if they came from oceans away to see it then it's worth it.



Moab, Utah, is a HUGE destination for German tourists.  I know other nations come too, but I'm told at Travel Agencies in Germany they have "Visit Moab" posters on the walls.  Because of the outdoor, natural environment, hiking and bicycling opportunities, and a chance to see some amazing outdoor scenery, Moab draws a lot of foreign visitors.  I know it keeps drawing me back, and I've been there several times. 

Dave


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## heathpack (Mar 12, 2018)

Great thread, just noticed it.

We have never been to Utah before (except to change planes) but circumstances lead us to making two trips this year.

In July, we are driving up to Park City for a week at Marriott Mountainside.  I want to mountain bike the area.  On the drive up, I’d like to ride a mountain bike trail called Thunder Mountain.  It’s just outside Panguitch, about 40 min west of Bryce Canyon NP.  We booked two nights in this little log cabin, about a 7 minute drive from the trailhead. 






I know it will be summer and hot, but the elevation is fairly high and I would like to ride close to dawn anyway.  The cabin is on this property:  https://www.brycecanyoncabins.com/

After our week in Park City, we’ll stay two nights at the Lodge at Bryce Canyon.  Unfortunately weekend days, but that’s just how the trip worked out.  We’ll leave Park City fairly early and hopefully arrive Bryce Canyon around 11am on a Friday.

My thought is to drive out to Rainbow Point, hike Bristlecone Trail, then stop off at all the overlooks on the way back to the lodge.  Check in to the Lodge, grab an early dinner in the dining room and then maybe a short hike below the Canyon rim if we’re up to it, or a ranger program, or just chill if we’re tired.

Sat am, I have an 8am, three hour horseback ride booked down into the canyon floor and then back by 11.  We’re planning on watching sunrise on the rim prior to the horseback trip, with a picnic breakfast.  Lunch at the dining room after the horse trip and then I’d love to hike some more- ideally Fairyland Trail.  But that’s 7.5 miles, might have to settle for something shorter and more crowded.

Sun, we need to hit the road early, so we won’t have time for much of anything besides packing the car.

I think I have a pretty good handle on this trip, but comments and suggestions are welcome.

The other trip is to St George and Zion, I’ll write a separate post on that one.


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## heathpack (Mar 12, 2018)

St George/Zion Trip and Questions

Mon Sept 17- Wed Sept 19 I will be attending a continuing education conference in St George.  The conference runs 8-1 each day, the rest of the days are free.

We’ve decided to devote Fri Sept 14 through Sun Sept 23 to this trip.

The mountain biking is fabulous in St George and Hurricane, so I want to bring a bike and ride some.  If it’s hot, I’ll ride near dawn and then head to my conference afterward (I can be a little late one day if necessary).

Fri Sept 14 and Sun Sept 23 will be travel days, but I’m not sure how to organize the rest of our time.

The conference is at this resort in St George:  https://www.redmountainresort.com/

I can for sure get the conference dates from Sunday Sept 16, checking out Wed Sept 19.

My thought is:
Fri Sept 14: drive LA to Hurricane
Fri Sept 14 and Sat Sept 15:  Hurricane, get in 1 or 2 Mtn bike rides
Sun Sept 16- Wed Sept 19:  Red Mountain Resort in St George.  A few short mtb rides, enjoy the resort
Wed Sept 19-Sun Sept 23:  Zion.  We were thinking of free hotel nights in Springdale at a Marriott Town Suites but that Cable Mountain Lodge is tempting.  We’d have 2-3 full days to explore Zion.  I am actually exploring the possibility of a day trip to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, me & a mtb guide.  Seems a little crazy but the logistics of a separate North Rim mtb trip at a later date are tricky- the drive to the trailhead from the North Rim NP is over an hour each way for me to get dropped off if we went on a later trip, that’s four hours of driving for husband to drop me off and pick me up, unless we camp on the trail.  So a long day trip from St George area is not totally crazy.

Questions:
1.  Staying in Hurricane is appealing, because if we stay in St George, husband has more driving- a round trip drive to drop me off and then pick me up at the trailheads.  Doable and he never seems to mind, but it would be nicer for him if I just got up early and rode right from the condo or hotel, then came back for a late breakfast or lunch and we enjoyed the day from there.  Suggestions for Hurricane lodging, or should we just plan on St George?  
2.  Is it worth looking for a cancellation for the lodge inside Zion?  Or just stay outside the park because we’re confined to the shuttle anyway?
3.  Any tips on good Zion hikes or activities?  I have something of a fear of heights, anything with rappelling is out.
4.  If I can’t organize the North Rim trip, we’ll just spend the extra day in Zion, or maybe head down to Vegas to visit my aunt.  Or should we consider something else?

Thanks.


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## DaveNV (Mar 12, 2018)

heathpack said:


> St George/Zion Trip and Questions



Random reply:  If you're planning a trip to the North Rim in September, make sure it's still going to be open.  I camped there a few years ago in a motorhome, and they closed the park the day we left due to snowfall, which was September 15th.  It _IS_ doable in one day/overnight from St. George, and you'd have plenty of time to hike or bike around. Sunrise from the North Rim is absolutely remarkable.

Staying in Hurricane vs. St. George:  Stay in St. George.  It's only a few miles from SG to Hurricane, and there is MUCH more to do in SG.  Hurricane is more residential than anything else, and doesn't have much to offer a bored tourist.  SG has plenty to offer.

Cancellation inside the Lodge at Zion:  Sure, if you can get it, but to be honest, the Lodge isn't that great.  Cool building, but nothing like Grand Canyon or Yellowstone Lodges.  In Springdale there are a number of perfectly nice 3-star motels that would be fine to stay in, and a shuttle that drives every few minutes to the park entrance.

If the North Rim doesn't work out, look at Snow Canyon outside of St. George. Check this website:  https://www.hikestgeorge.com/snow-canyon-state-park-hikes/

There are a thousand reasons why St. George and the red rock country of Southern Utah is my favorite place to visit on the planet, right after Hawaii. I think after you've seen it, you'll agree.

Dave


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## heathpack (Mar 13, 2018)

Thanks Dave.

The resort the conference is being held at in St George is an expensive all-inclusive place but the conference rate is non-AI so I will see if they will let me check in Fri Sept 14 at the conference rate.  If not, I can get two free nights at the Hyatt Place in St George, probably will be good enough.

Then we can decide if we want to splurge on the fancy place in Springdale vs the free nights at the Marriott TownePlace.  Since it’s a work trip, the conference hotel nights are covered by my employer.  Tempting to string together a bunch of free nights for an El Cheapo fabulous trip.  But wow on that Cable Mountain Resort.  Might be worth a splurge.

The mountain bike guide who I have been in touch with wants to “talk” before scheduling the North Rim day trip.  I’m sure he wants to have a conversation about how the trip would be subject to weather and he’d probably want me to commit to riding elsewhere with him that day is weather dictates.  Fair enough.

The trail I’m talking about is not in the North Rim NP.  It’s in a state forest just outside the park.  It’s called the Rainbow Rim Trail.  You’re not allowed to Mtn bike in NPs but this trail snakes along in forest along the north rim west of the park and pops out right on the rim several times.  Supposed to be incredible.  I’d love to do it.

But a direct quote from a Mtn bike friend: Do not discount the quality of the riding around St George, it’s incredible.


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## Karen G (Mar 13, 2018)

There are still performances going on at the Tuacahn outdoor amphitheater near St. George in September if that interests you. Here's some info:
Tuacahn


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## DaveNV (Mar 13, 2018)

heathpack said:


> Thanks Dave.
> 
> The resort the conference is being held at in St George is an expensive all-inclusive place but the conference rate is non-AI so I will see if they will let me check in Fri Sept 14 at the conference rate.  If not, I can get two free nights at the Hyatt Place in St George, probably will be good enough.
> 
> ...



Valid points, certainly.  And you can't argue with free accommodations.  Keep in mind, it is only about a 45 minute drive from St. George to the entrance to Zion NP. So as nice as Cable Mountain is, all you'll really be saving is that 45 minutes. Weigh the cost of staying at Cable Mountain vs. that easy 45 minute drive.  Food for thought.

Definitely check out that link I posted to Snow Canyon.  You may decide the North Rim will keep for another time.  

And for the foodies reading this, arguably the best breakfast in St. George is at the Bear Paw Cafe. Family style dining, and a great atmosphere.  https://www.yelp.com/biz/bear-paw-cafe-saint-george

Dave


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## heathpack (Mar 13, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Valid points, certainly.  And you can't argue with free accommodations.  Keep in mind, it is only about a 45 minute drive from St. George to the entrance to Zion NP. So as nice as Cable Mountain is, all you'll really be saving is that 45 minutes. Weigh the cost of staying at Cable Mountain vs. that easy 45 minute drive.  Food for thought.
> 
> Definitely check out that link I posted to Snow Canyon.  You may decide the North Rim will keep for another time.
> 
> ...



The conference is right at the base of Snow Canyon, so I was planning on riding up into there one day.

I was looking at drive times from St George to the various Hurricane trailheads- 30 min.  So now I’m back to looking for accommodation up that way.  There are some camping yurts on Gooseberry Mesa and a few adobe type rentals out that way as well.   Might work better rather than asking husband to drive 1 hour RT to drop me off and 1 hr RT to pick me up...


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## DaveNV (Mar 13, 2018)

heathpack said:


> The conference is right at the base of Snow Canyon, so I was planning on riding up into there one day.
> 
> I was looking at drive times from St George to the various Hurricane trailheads- 30 min.  So now I’m back to looking for accommodation up that way.  There are some camping yurts on Gooseberry Mesa and a few adobe type rentals out that way as well.   Might work better rather than asking husband to drive 1 hour RT to drop me off and 1 hr RT to pick me up...



I don't know where the Hurricane trailheads would be. The town itself is next to I-15, but runs a fair distance west and (mostly) east from there.  If the trails are in the hills east of town, then staying there may be easier than staying in St. George.  I'm sure you'll work it out. The whole area is great, and seeing any part of it is better than not seeing any of it. 

Dave


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## heathpack (Mar 13, 2018)

Yes, the trails in the Hurricane area are mostly east of town.


DaveNW said:


> I don't know where the Hurricane trailheads would be. The town itself is next to I-15, but runs a fair distance west and (mostly) east from there.  If the trails are in the hills east of town, then staying there may be easier than staying in St. George.  I'm sure you'll work it out. The whole area is great, and seeing any part of it is better than not seeing any of it.
> 
> Dave



Thanks Dave,

I talked to a mtb-ing friend who has ridden there.  He said he stayed in St George too but he didn't need a ride to the trails.

The trails are east of Hurricane.

I've put in a request to stay at the fancy conference hotel at the conference rate starting a couple of days before the conference starts (check in Fri instead of Sun).  If I get the hotel at that discounted rate, I'll just stay there I think, Fri til Wed and then move to Zion Wed through Sun.  We'll see...

Appreciate the input.


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## chemteach (Mar 24, 2018)

If you are not planning on doing much in the way of hiking, but want to see beauty in Southern Utah, I would suggest driving Scenic route 12 north about 2 hours toward Capitol Reef.  I am actually on a trip right now with students visiting Bryce, Escalante, Capitol Reef, and Zion.  Very different from your plan - but something you may want to consider.  I had never been to Capitol Reef before.  The drive along route 12 is crazy beautiful  - at one point you are driving along with drop-offs on both sides, and red rocks surrounding you 360 degrees.  If you stay in / near Bryce, Zion is about 1 1/2 hours south, and Capitol Reef is about 2 hours north of you.  The 2 hour drive to Capitol reef is just stunning.  

The week has been filled with absolute beauty and drastic weather differences.  Students were having snowball fights in one part of Bryce.  I had only ever been to Bryce in the summer.  It was fantastic with the snow.  The drive to Capitol Reef involved temperatures ranging from 38 to 65 degrees.  We drove through snow capped mountain areas back down to the red rocks of Utah with snow capped mountains in the distance.  Neither park was too crowded.  I'm thinking late March/early April may be my favorite time to visit the area.  

You will have a great time!  Enjoy!  Bryce and Zion are fantastic.


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## VacationForever (Mar 24, 2018)

chemteach said:


> If you are not planning on doing much in the way of hiking, but want to see beauty in Southern Utah, I would suggest driving Scenic route 12 north about 2 hours toward Capitol Reef.  I am actually on a trip right now with students visiting Bryce, Escalante, Capitol Reef, and Zion.  Very different from your plan - but something you may want to consider.  I had never been to Capitol Reef before.  The drive along route 12 is crazy beautiful  - at one point you are driving along with drop-offs on both sides, and red rocks surrounding you 360 degrees.  If you stay in / near Bryce, Zion is about 1 1/2 hours south, and Capitol Reef is about 2 hours north of you.  The 2 hour drive to Capitol reef is just stunning.
> 
> The week has been filled with absolute beauty and drastic weather differences.  Students were having snowball fights in one part of Bryce.  I had only ever been to Bryce in the summer.  It was fantastic with the snow.  The drive to Capitol Reef involved temperatures ranging from 38 to 65 degrees.  We drove through snow capped mountain areas back down to the red rocks of Utah with snow capped mountains in the distance.  Neither park was too crowded.  I'm thinking late March/early April may be my favorite time to visit the area.
> 
> You will have a great time!  Enjoy!  Bryce and Zion are fantastic.


What is the highest elevation of your drive?


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## chemteach (Mar 24, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> What is the highest elevation of your drive?


The highest point was 9700 feet.  We drove back from Capitol Reef to Zion today - stopping at Willis Creek Narrows about 20 miles east of Bryce Canyon.  The drive was fantastic again.  Took 2 hours to get to Willis Creek Narrows - a great Slot canyon - easy to walk through if you don't mind your feet getting a little wet - but you need a car that can drive on a dirt road.  It's located in Escalante Grand Staircase.  Then it was about a  2 1/2 hour drive to Springdale.  Scenic route 12 is pretty spectacular.


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## CO skier (Mar 24, 2018)

heathpack said:


> I think I have a pretty good handle on this trip, but comments and suggestions are welcome.
> 
> The other trip is to St George and Zion, I’ll write a separate post on that one.


If you have never traveled to the Grand Canyon, then your plan is a good one.  If you have seen the Grand Canyon in person, then I would suggest skipping the North Rim and focusing on Bryce and Zion NPs.

Biking is not allowed on most of these NP trails.  Skip the mountain biking (you can see all of it from a car) and focus on hikes.  Based on your mtb experience, you would have no problem with Angels Landing in Zion (40 years experience hiking in the Western US and this is by far the best hike, imo).  The up river hike from River Walk is the second best hike in the Western US, and definitely one of the best in the world.

Mountain biking in the Zion, Bryce Canyon area instead of spending that time hiking in those National Parks would by like biking the streets around the Lourve instead of getting inside.


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## heathpack (Mar 25, 2018)

CO skier said:


> If you have never traveled to the Grand Canyon, then your plan is a good one.  If you have seen the Grand Canyon in person, then I would suggest skipping the North Rim and focusing on Bryce and Zion NPs.
> 
> Biking is not allowed on most of these NP trails.  Skip the mountain biking (you can see all of it from a car) and focus on hikes.  Based on your mtb experience, you would have no problem with Angels Landing in Zion (40 years experience hiking in the Western US and this is by far the best hike, imo).  The up river hike from River Walk is the second best hike in the Western US, and definitely one of the best in the world.
> 
> Mountain biking in the Zion, Bryce Canyon area instead of spending that time hiking in those National Parks would by like biking the streets around the Lourve instead of getting inside.



My spouse has bad knees.  The only way I can go epic on trails is to ride.

I’ve been to the south rim of the Grand Canyon but never the north.  I’m aware that you can’t ride in NPs, which is part of the appeal of the Rainbow Rim trail in the adjacent (Kaibab maybe?) national forest.  The trail pops out onto the north rim several times.

There is a possibility I can organize a trip to the North Rim next year in association with a continuing education conference I’ll be attending, it will depend upon the date and location of a bike race I want to do that may preclude the North Rim side trip.

BUT it is a PIA for my husband to drive support for me to ride the Rainbow Rim trail from North Rim NP.  The trailhead is an hour drive from North Rim NP (where we’d stay) down a long dirt road, then I’d ride the trail solo with I’m sure no cell reception and then after he drove back to the main road after dropping me off at the trailhead he’d have to drive another long out and back down a dirt road to pick me up.  I’m sure he’d do it but I can’t imagine it would be a very fun day for him and it would for sure increase the risk for me, riding solo out there.  Riding with a guide makes a lot of sense for this particular trail, and St George (having lots of guides) is one of the logistically easier places to organize this trip from.

Mountain biking is a game changer for us when we travel to places like this.  I can head out early and get my epic on for a few hours and then we can spend the afternoon doing whatever.  Versus me wanting to do more than his knees can take, him trying to be accommodating and then us both sitting around not doing much of anything.

And besides: mountain biking is way more fun than hiking.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 14, 2019)

Cornell said:


> I have done this trip twice.  The drive from Las Vegas is very easy.  Both times I've done this I have spent one night in LV either as we arrived or when we departed to make traveling easier.  I hate LV but discovered that there are some really nice non-casino hotels in LV right near the strip.  Both of my trips I made my home base Kanab, UT.  Kanab is a low-key, cool , laid-back town.  If you like animals (domesticated animals like dogs, cats), you should spend a day (or half-day) visiting Best Friends Animal Sanctuary.  It is the largest, no-kill animal shelter in the US.  Truly life changing.  Their property is gorgeous and you can take a tour of their property.  It is life-affirming!  This is the sanctuary where Michael Vick's dogs were taken after they were rescued.  You will be uplifted if you visit.  Check out bestfriends.org.  You can even volunteer during your visit if you choose to do so.




Yes re staying in Vegas pre and post!

My husband just got approval for his vacation days and it looks like we are good to go God willing! He actually got a second week for the trip approved thinking we could do the other parks and sites, but I think it will be too much for us to try to go to the other half of the state to the other parks like Arches and Canyonlands/Moab/Monument Valley, etc. I think that will have to be another trip for another time. Just too much driving and the airport and rental car issues and lodging and all that and so forth.

So, back to your comment. I think we are also going to fly in a day early- on a Saturday- and stay in Las Vegas in an inexpensive hotel close to the airport- like a mile or two from it- upon arrival since it is a long day for us between getting to the airport in NY- 2 hours away (we usually hire a car service). Then the flying time and so forth. We will get our rental car at the airport. Then we will just hang out and rest. I am not a Vegas type person. Was there once- for part of our honeymoon and that was enough for me.

The next day we will leisurely drive to Zion-almost a 3 hour drive(I know they say 2.5 hours, but I think it is more like 2 hours and 45 minutes, so I say 3 hours) maybe stop in St. George to see some things. I booked Cable Mountain Lodge right across from Zion in Springdale last January -as I already posted- for the second week of September for 6 nights. Check in is at 3pm.

We will enjoy Zion and the surrounds (and the resort, which looks awesome! We have a Parkside (view) Luxury Suite!) and spend one day that week at Bryce. When we check out on the following Saturday by 11 am, we will take our time driving back to Las Vegas and stay in the same hotel again there. This will allow us to take an early flight back to NY so we will not get home so late since we "lose" time going back east. Car service will pick us up from the NY airport and bring us home sweet home. So it is good at least my husband has that next day-Monday- off approved by his employer already. (And he can use the remaining PTO days for something else this year.)

I like an "easy" (as easy as it can be with flying) and stress free as much as possible. Simple and not too many logistics to deal with. I like to settle in and get to know a place a little bit also. For us, this will be a great 9 day vacation.

Yes- I know people do a lot more in 9 or 10 days when visiting UTAH, but this suits us just fine. I am excited!

Now I need to book the Vegas hotel, car rental and eventually the flights- THAT is the part I absolutely HATE doing. Stresses me out to book flights! LOL!


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## DaveNV (Feb 14, 2019)

mpumilia said:


> Yes- I know people do a lot more in 9 or 10 days when visiting UTAH, but this suits us just fine. I am excited!
> 
> Now I need to book the Vegas hotel, car rental and eventually the flights- THAT is the part I absolutely HATE doing. Stresses me out to book flights! LOL!




Mary Ann, you're going to really like visiting Southern Utah. It's a simple drive up the freeway from Las Vegas to St. George, and an easy drive from there through Hurricane and Virgin to Springdale, the town right outside the West Entrance to Zion.  Extraordinary scenery around there.

What time of year are you going?

As for staying in Las Vegas, if you arrive early enough that day, you may want to drive over to visit Hoover Dam.  It's not far, and is quite interesting to see. You can lay around the hotel anywhere.  

There is plenty to talk about, if you're interested.  That part of the country is my Second Most Favorite place to visit in the USA.  Hawaii, as you might expect, is First.  

Have fun!

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Feb 14, 2019)

The next day we will leisurely drive to Zion. I booked Cable Mountain Lodge last January for the second week of September.


DaveNW said:


> Mary Ann, you're going to really like visiting Southern Utah. It's a simple drive up the freeway from Las Vegas to St. George, and an easy drive from there through Hurricane and Virgin to Springdale, the town right outside the West Entrance to Zion.  Extraordinary scenery around there.
> 
> What time of year are you going?
> 
> ...



Thanks! We are going the second week of September. Probably should have done it a bit later in the season as we don't like the heat, but maybe we will be lucky and it won't be too bad.

I did just book the Vegas hotel for the going and coming via Booking.com - just did La Quinta because it is right near the airport, includes breakfast and wifi, airport shuttle if we would decide to use it, and I don't want to get involved with the casinos and the strip and all that. Don't have to pay anything until right up to the time we leave and can cancel for free if we have to right up to the day before departure. Can't beat that and the $109 per night for a King. Decent reviews. Supposedly there are restaurants right nearby so that will be good.

Yes- Hoover Dam would be great to see. My husband has been there, but I have not. We will have to see what time our flight gets in- or maybe we might do it when we check out of Cable Mountain Lodge on our way back to Vegas. We'll play it by ear I guess. That is why I like having space in our schedule- gives us some options for spontaneity, not to mention some pool time surrounded by those gorgeous views!

Thanks! I am anxious to visit Utah for the first time. (I love Hawaii also. Beautiful country we live in!)


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## Sandy VDH (Feb 14, 2019)

I liked my St George trip so much, that 7 months later I did a one way Billings MT to Las Vegas NV 2 week trip.  WM Timeshares in West Yellowstone and in St George.  Hotels in Moab, UT, Page AZ and Bryce NP.  

It was the last trip I ever got to take with my Dad.  He passed away exactly 1 year later.


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## DaveNV (Feb 14, 2019)

September is an excellent time to visit the area.  It won't be too hot or cold.  The end of September was when I did my extensive trip around the area that I mentioned in Reply #12 in this thread.  You should have excellent end-of-Summer weather.  

As to visiting Hoover Dam on the way back, note that they're on opposite sides of Las Vegas.  You'd have to get an early start to get there from Springdale, and have time to enjoy the Dam before heading back to Las Vegas.

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Sep 13, 2019)

Well- we ended up going on this trip after all and I have to say it was spectacular! We flew into Vegas on Saturday ( 103 degrees and we were happy to leave the next day) and then drove to Springdale on Sunday, stopping in St George to visit the Mormon temple there.

Cable Mountain Lodge has been everything everyone said it would be. I would never stay anywhere else when visiting Zion. Just wonderful and so convenient.

We did the shuttle through the park and some of the short, “easy” trails. Another day we drove the Zion/Mt Carmel road through to the tunnel and on to Bryce. The scenery on the way was simply incredible. Never saw anything like it!

Bryce was magnificent. Cold and windy that day. I literally cried there- I got so emotional at what I was seeing.

We only walked a little ways down towards the hoodoos. Hubby can’t handle the physical exertion and my intense fear of heights limits me in places like these.

We also road out to Cedar Breaks and it was freezing the day we went! But worth the trip to view.

And then another day we went to Snow Canyon- a real gem of a state park. Just beautiful.

Lastly we checked out the ghost town of Grafton. Very photogenic. Interesting place.

Our last day in Springdale - which is today- we lazied about after all the driving and sightseeing. I did laundry and then we had lunch at Oscars. Took a walk along the river and because it was so hot we decided to hang out in the suite and on the deck afterwards.

Overall the weather was great. Cool in the early mornings and evenings- down into the 60’s but very hot in the middle of the day- as high as 97- but sometimes the upper 80’s. Totally clear blue skies. The only time we even saw a white fluffy cloud was the day we went to Bryce and also some clouds at Cedar Breaks.

We essentially  would do things early in the morning then get back around 2 or 3 when it was very hot. I would go to the pool and hubby would nap in the air conditioning.

Very happy we decided not to cancel this trip. It was something to see. I just hate the flying/ airport/ rental car stuff.

Tomorrow we head back to Las Vegas and will turn the rental car in a day early and just use the hotel shuttle. Sunday- back to reality.

And- we now have a closing for our home sale and a moving date. So when we get home we have lots of work to do!

Thank you to all you Tuggers for your helpful recommendations for this trip! We loved it!


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## DaveNV (Sep 13, 2019)

Mary Ann, it's awesome that you enjoyed yourself so much.  Springdale is a great little town, and those Parks you saw just can't be beat.  Good luck with the house sale, and moving to your new place!  Like @slip, you have also had a momentous year!

Dave


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## Karen G (Sep 14, 2019)

I'm so glad you made the trip! Sounds like it was wonderful. Hope your flight home goes well.


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## 1st Class (Sep 14, 2019)

Thank you so much for posting a trip report.  I love it when people come back and do a follow up upon return.  It will be a handy reference in planning our own trip.  Sounds like you had a great week!  This may be just what you needed to recharge for the next stage of planning your move.  Glad everything worked out so well for you!  Safe travels ...


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## clifffaith (Sep 14, 2019)

We felt like a couple of doofuses when we visited Cedar Breaks in June 2018. Only reason I didn't have flip flops on in the snow (like several others we saw) was because I'd worn shoes in case there was a short trail. The only reason we even had a single jacket between us was because we'd left it loose in the car and saw no reason to schlep it into Worldmark St. George. We had no clue that it could be in the 90s in St. George and still be snowing in early June up on that mountain. We spent a few minutes at the thankfully covered ranger station windows, then retraced our steps to the DQ in the town at the bottom of the mountain. We love Utah -- great scenery and DQ's everywhere! So glad you were still able to take your trip, Mary Ann!


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## WinniWoman (Sep 14, 2019)

clifffaith said:


> We felt like a couple of doofuses when we visited Cedar Breaks in June 2018. Only reason I didn't have flip flops on in the snow (like several others we saw) was because I'd worn shoes in case there was a short trail. The only reason we even had a single jacket between us was because we'd left it loose in the car and saw no reason to schlep it into Worldmark St. George. We had no clue that it could be in the 90s in St. George and still be snowing in early June up on that mountain. We spent a few minutes at the thankfully covered ranger station windows, then retraced our steps to the DQ in the town at the bottom of the mountain. We love Utah -- great scenery and DQ's everywhere! So glad you were still able to take your trip, Mary Ann!




Thanks! Yes- they actually were predicting snow in Cedar Breaks for the early morning the day we went!


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## Snazzylass (Sep 14, 2019)

clifffaith said:


> We felt like a couple of doofuses when we visited Cedar Breaks in June 2018. Only reason I didn't have flip flops on in the snow (like several others we saw) was because I'd worn shoes in case there was a short trail. The only reason we even had a single jacket between us was because we'd left it loose in the car and saw no reason to schlep it into Worldmark St. George. We had no clue that it could be in the 90s in St. George and still be snowing in early June up on that mountain. We spent a few minutes at the thankfully covered ranger station windows, then retraced our steps to the DQ in the town at the bottom of the mountain. We love Utah -- great scenery and DQ's everywhere! So glad you were still able to take your trip, Mary Ann!


Elevation is everything out here! And, my first trip introducing my boys came with the same weather surprises. We got off the train in Flagstaff in July and it was hot! So, I took them to a place I'd had skied as a kid, the Snow Bowl. We got to the top on the chair lift and a sudden snow storm came up. We, along with others in summer attire, waited it out in the Ski Patrol shack wrapped in musty wool blankets. It happens!


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