# Worldmark Newbie-sort of....



## sugar apple (Jul 26, 2007)

Hi,

i posted this in the newbie section and it has not been answered yet, so i found my "home" and decided to ask it here. Please help me out. Thanks

Hi folks!!!

I love this resource. So before I get to asking away, I just want to say thanks a bunch for providing this wealth of information!!

I owned a Worldmark TS years ago and stopped paying on it so it got charged off. After a few weeks of planning to purchase, I started to try to get my credits back. I then realized there was something called the "resale market" I found 10,000 units plus an additional 10,000 to use before March 31, 2008 on ebay. 

So,

1) how much do you think was too much to pay for it?

2) does worldmark trade well?

3) when you buy resale, do you still get the worldmark trip helper person

4) what do you lose buying worldmark on the resale?

5) how exactly does trading into II or RCI work?

6) what are the best resorts to secure to get the best trading power?

7) can I call the broker and ask him to use the current owners info so I can see what is available?

Thanks new family!!!


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## Bill4728 (Jul 26, 2007)

sugar apple said:


> 1) how much do you think was too much to pay for it?



The going price is somewhere at about $0.70 - $0.80/pt



> 2) does worldmark trade well?


 Fellow TUGGERS say that WM trades great!!



> 3) when you buy resale, do you still get the worldmark trip helper person
> 
> 4) what do you lose buying worldmark on the resale?


 WM is starting a new program just for people who buy from trendwest/wyndham but most people say it is a little value. Other than that program resale owners are treated the same as a developer bought owner.  BUY RESALE!!



> 5) how exactly does trading into II or RCI work?
> 
> 6) what are the best resorts to secure to get the best trading power?


I'll leave these for someone else to answer.


> 7) can I call the broker and ask him to use the current owners info so I can see what is available?
> 
> Thanks new family!!!


  This is really way beyond what you should expect of any broker. So IMHO No you can't ask the broker to do that.


Welcome to TUG

PS





			
				Sugar Apple said:
			
		

> i posted this in the newbie section and it has not been answered yet, so i found my "home" and decided to ask it here. Please help me out. Thanks


Please post your question in only one place. If you want it moved just ask and one of the moderators will be happy to move it for you.


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## spatenfloot (Jul 26, 2007)

sugar apple said:


> 5) how exactly does trading into II or RCI work?
> 
> 6) what are the best resorts to secure to get the best trading power?



To deposit a week, you call owners services and tell them the size and point value of the week you want to deposit (5k, 1br blue). You do not reserve a week and then deposit it.  For Interval, you can search and exchange online without making a deposit first. They will simply take out the appropriate number of credits for your exchange (but it takes a while for this to show in your WM account).  RCI allows you to search first, but you must call them to do it.


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## roadsister (Jul 26, 2007)

I think whether you get great trades depends on when you are able to travel....within a short time frame (either 45 days or less (RCI) or 59 days or less (II), or off season (hurricane, winter at resorts that have a high demand in summer, when kids are in school and families can't travel, etc.).

I really like II being able to shop online with a simple interface.

I sent you a PM

Good luck,

Faye


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## PerryM (Jul 26, 2007)

*Happy exploiting...*



sugar apple said:


> Hi,
> 
> i posted this in the newbie section and it has not been answered yet, so i found my "home" and decided to ask it here. Please help me out. Thanks
> 
> ...



Sugar,

You’ve made a wise timeshare decision.  Here are a few pointers:

1)	Buy WM credits for NO MORE than 70¢ - just this week I got offers for 62¢, 64¢  and 65¢.  I don't think I've seen an offer over 70¢ for over a month or two.

2)	The optimum number of WM credits to own is 10k or 12k

3)	Rent as many WM credits from other WM owners for about 6¢ each and never have to own or buy them

4)	You can set up as many II ongoing searches as you want without having a single WM credit in your account – get charged 10k credits for a Red 2BR when exchange is made and have about 30 days to rent the credits.  At 59 days only need 4,000 WM credits for any exchange.

5)	WM is an extremely powerful and resourceful II exchanger – more than any other timeshare I am aware of

6)	This web site is a great place to learn about WM – other chat rooms dedicated to WM are consumed with suing and taking over WM – just out fox fellow WM owners – it’s easy to do

7)	Request first in II and no need to lock in a holiday week for exchanging

8)	Try to buy a No Housekeeping Account – they run about $1.60 a WM credit and you can use WM like a hotel and stay a day here, a day there, and never pay a housekeeping charge.  You can find one later and merge all your credits into it and they all become free of housekeeping charges.  They are ONLY available resale - they were the first 2,000 original accounts and can never be charged for housekeeping.  In 1 year you might see 4 come up for sale on eBay or resellers.  Many older WM owners don't even know they own one of these gems - be on the lookout for any existing account number that starts with 100-#### - that's a NHK account and worth it's weight in gold

9)	Don’t buy a single WM credit from the developer, which today is Wyndham, and who knows what tomorrow will bring

10)	It costs $150 to set up an account with WM/Wyndham – try to get out of paying more for closing costs – closing is done via Wyndham on a 4 page document that needs to be notarized by both parties.  Call WN daily to poke them along - they are very lazy and need constant poking - should close in 30 days, heck even 14 days.

11) We hardly stay at WM resorts - too dumpy, we exchange into Marriotts - much more upscale.  For what the Marriott owner pays in MFs of about $900 we pay about $400 - thanks II and Marriott

Good luck and have fun exploiting an extremely stupid developer (Wyndham)and I mean stupid.  II fell victim to WN's stupidity too - I guess it's catchy.


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## sugar apple (Jul 26, 2007)

Thank you for your advice. I paid 7100 for 10k with one free housekeeping charge a year. The anniversary month is March so in the account right now I have 20K. I paid closing and transfer charges. I hope this was a good deal. I went to other sites and did not see near that pice for what I got it for. 

The only concern I have is regarding my charged off account. WIll that prevent me from owning again?


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## PerryM (Jul 26, 2007)

sugar apple said:


> Thank you for your advice. I paid 7100 for 10k with one free housekeeping charge a year. The anniversary month is March so in the account right now I have 20K. I paid closing and transfer charges. I hope this was a good deal. I went to other sites and did not see near that pice for what I got it for.
> 
> The only concern I have is regarding my charged off account. WIll that prevent me from owning again?



I'm not sure what you are saying/asking.
I would not assume that the Wyndham folks know or care about anything but tomorrows lunch menu - so forge ahead.

The way TrendWest/Cendant/Wyndham play musical owners who knows whom the new owner will be when Wyndham decides to unload WordlMark by Wyndham.


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## chas943 (Jul 28, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Sugar,
> 
> You’ve made a wise timeshare decision.  Here are a few pointers:
> 
> ...


Perry,

Very informative reply. I hadn't heard of the No House Keeping fee Credits. Wynham has been a bear to deal with. At my request they just cancelled my contract. I'll ony buy resale from now on. 

Can you elaborate on exploiting II and Wyndam? Has this ownership change created some new advanatage with II?

First of many posts. Happy 10yr WM owner till now.


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## PerryM (Jul 28, 2007)

*Waving Red Flags in the barn yard is not good...*



chas943 said:


> Perry,
> 
> Very informative reply. I hadn't heard of the No House Keeping fee Credits. Wynham has been a bear to deal with. At my request they just cancelled my contract. I'll ony buy resale from now on.
> 
> ...



Poke around here and look up some of my old posts on both II and Wyndham; contact me if you don’t get at least 5 ways to exploit them.  (Not just from me)

Just remember that every time you exploit a system there is a good chance someone else has gotten their ox gored – some folks are really touchy about this.  So I don’t want to wave a red flag around the barn yard.  Do the searches and you should easily find some great reasons to own WM.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 29, 2007)

chas943 said:


> Perry,
> 
> Very informative reply. I hadn't heard of the No House Keeping fee Credits. Wynham has been a bear to deal with. At my request they just cancelled my contract. I'll ony buy resale from now on.
> 
> ...



Don't even consider purchasing a no housekeeping account unless you intend to use WorldMark resorts for a lot of partial week stays.   If you are simply using it for 7-night stays, you can usually get a free housekeeping token with your credit rental.  

A no housekeeping fee account will be about a $10,000 premium over the underlying WorldMark account.  That is a load of housekeeping tokens you need to use in order to pay down that surcharge.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 29, 2007)

There are 3 ways to exchange through II.

1) search online and confirm anything you can see.  This is a fantastic way to exchange.  

side note:  Perry is operating under old processes and timetables.  You need to have those credits in your account before you make such an exchange because they can take them out in less than a week now.  If you don't have credits in your account when you make the exchange, they will charge you $.08/credit or $.15/credit for what they call FAX time.  Don't risk it.  It's very expensive.  You also need one housekeeping token for each exchange.

2) Pending request.  This is like an RCI ongoing search.  Just make a request for a selection of resorts or locations or dates and II will put you on the waitlist for those resorts and you will get it if and when it becomes available.

3) Deposit.  Call up the exchange services team and have them deposit a week into your account.

For RCI, you can call up RCI and they will check for availability and do an instant exchange if you want.  I would look for great sightings and if you see what you want, call them immediately and try to book it.  I've never tried this, but they told me that you can get anything avialable in RCI using this approach.  It's expensive, though.  So, I would only do it if you don't have other traders with sufficient trading power.


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## PerryM (Jul 29, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> Don't even consider purchasing a no housekeeping account unless you intend to use WorldMark resorts for a lot of partial week stays.   If you are simply using it for 7-night stays, you can usually get a free housekeeping token with your credit rental.
> 
> A no housekeeping fee account will be about a $10,000 premium over the underlying WorldMark account.  That is a load of housekeeping tokens you need to use in order to pay down that surcharge.



I view all timeshare purchases as a buy-hold 10 years-sell to be able to compare various opportunities.

If you buy a 6k - 10k NHK account for, lets say, $1.60 a WM credit and then get to use WM as a hotel for 10 years you will be able to sell the NHK for more than $1.60 10 years later.

Then on top of that add 5k - 10k WM credits to the account and instead selling a 6k account sell a 12k account for a bit less per WM credit but make a nice profit.

I see the few NHK accounts that come up supporting this tactic.




BocaBum99 said:


> There are 3 ways to exchange through II.
> 
> 1) search online and confirm anything you can see.  This is a fantastic way to exchange.
> 
> ...



I just made an II exchange 2 weeks ago and have not been charged the 10k WM credits - so it is at least 2 weeks and I'll let folks know when I actually get charged.

The first time you use FAX you should take advantage of the developer, Wyndham, not just take 1 vacation but, heck book 2 or more exchanges and ask Wyndham to then charge you the FAX rate.  You only get this cheap rate once each 5 years and the last time I asked them they didn't seem to have any problems waiting a week or two for all the exchanges to be charged against the account - but ask to confirm before doing this.

It is much safer to just rent the WM credits for 6 - 8 cents from other WM owners BEFORE placing those ongoing searches but I have searches that have been out there for years.

P.S.
To recap NHK accounts:
1) Buy a small NHK account of 10k WM credits at $1.60 or less each then merge in say 10k WM credits for 70 cents each and then resell the 20k NHK account for $1.35 and make a tidy profit $4,000 for 2 hours of your time.

2) While you own the NHK use WM like a hotel and instead of 7 days in one WM location take 3 2-day vacations and not pay the $100 charge for those last 2 2BR units you dirtied up - let Wyndham pay for them (well, really other WM owners)

3) There are 2,000 of those NHK accounts out there - many of the original 1990 - 1992 owners are selling those accounts and don't know that their account number of 100-XXXX will allow them to sell their WM credits for $1.60 each instead of 70 cents.  Be on the lookout for those accounts.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 29, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I view all timeshare purchases as a buy-hold 10 years-sell to be able to compare various opportunities.
> 
> If you buy a 6k - 10k NHK account for, lets say, $1.60 a WM credit and then get to use WM as a hotel for 10 years you will be able to sell the NHK for more than $1.60 10 years later.
> 
> ...



I have confirmed several II exchanges recently where the credits were deducted from my account in less than a week.  Some are faster, some are slower.  It's better not to risk it so you don't waste your one time $.08/credit FAX opportunity.

Let me reiterate my last point regarding No housekeeping accounts.  They sell for a fixed dollar amount above the underlying point values.   It is anywhere between $7000-15000 above the $.60-.70/credit you can buy a normal WorldMark account.  It is NOT the case that you can buy a cheap one, add say 50000 credits and sell them for $1.60/credit.  I've seen them listed for that much and they simply don't sell.

Let's say that you pay a $10k premium.  Just the cost of capital of an 8% HELOC would be a cost to you of roughly $800 per year if you received that full premium back later when you decide to sell it.  $800 per year will get you 10-15 housekeeping tokens.  And, as I said, you can usually get a housekeeping token with a credit rental if you simply ask for it.

So, unless you are a partial week power user for WorldMark where you are booking 10-15 reservations per year or more, it really isn't required.


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## PerryM (Jul 29, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> I have confirmed several II exchanges recently where the credits were deducted from my account in less than a week.  Some are faster, some are slower.  It's better not to risk it so you don't waste your one time $.08/credit FAX opportunity.
> 
> Let me reiterate my last point regarding No housekeeping accounts.  They sell for a fixed dollar amount above the underlying point values.   It is anywhere between $7000-15000 above the $.60-.70/credit you can buy a normal WorldMark account.  It is NOT the case that you can buy a cheap one, add say 50000 credits and sell them for $1.60/credit.  I've seen them listed for that much and they simply don't sell.
> 
> ...




If you completely write off a NHK you will never be able to take advantage of one if it should fall into your lap.

In the past 2 years I have helped several WM owners acquire a total of 2 of these and they paid less than 60 cents a WM credit.  In one case they bumped into an estate sale where the kids of the owner would take any amount they were offered.  The person sent me an eMail and I asked what the account number was - it was a 100-XXXX and I informed them what they had.

The second person bought it over Craig's list I believe and the same exact thing happened - Mom or Dad gave them the WM account and they just wanted to unload the account.

So, once again, the amount of knowledge you have about timeshares determines the quality of vacations and heck just a great profit to boot.

If you should find a seller of a WM account, just ask them what was the earliest reservation - if it's from 1992 or earlier you have a NHK on your hands.  In both cases the two individuals asked me what I would do if I discovered that what was being sold for less than 60 cents was worth $1.60 - I asked them if the owner was happy with your offer and if so to complete the transaction.  If they felt guilty afterwords they could simply write them a check and mail it to them - I don't think they did that but I'm just guessing.

P.S.
Every time I talk to someone at WM they realize I have a NHK account and congratulate me - I'm just wondering if they listen to older folks calling in and wanting help with selling their account - I wonder if the 100-XXXX accounts are bought by Wyndham employees who like to help out our senior citizens in need.  Or, a reseller calls Grandma 10 minutes later and Christmas is a little more profitable this year for our Wyndham employee.  Timeshares are so versatile in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 29, 2007)

PerryM said:


> If you completely write off a NHK you will never be able to take advantage of one if it should fall into your lap.
> 
> In the past 2 years I have helped several WM owners acquire a total of 2 of these and they paid less than 60 cents a WM credit.  In one case they bumped into an estate sale where the kids of the owner would take any amount they were offered.  The person sent me an eMail and I asked what the account number was - it was a 100-XXXX and I informed them what they had.
> 
> ...



Who says I am writing off no housekeeping accounts?  I own one and it DOES NOT have a 100-XXXX account structure.   I bought it for $5000 over the underlying credit value.  I can now sell it for $10000 over the underlying credit value.

I would buy any timeshare that I felt confident that I could make a $5000 profit on.

I book mostly 7-night stays either for using WorldMark resorts or exchanging with independents and I book a lot of them.  I find that I don't really need the No HK account.  I may sell it.  From a pure economic standpoint, it only makes sense if you book a lot of partial week stays every year in WorldMark resorts.  Otherwise, you don't need it.


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## PerryM (Jul 29, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> Who says I am writing off no housekeeping accounts?  I own one and it DOES NOT have a 100-XXXX account structure.   I bought it for $5000 over the underlying credit value.  I can now sell it for $10000 over the underlying credit value.
> 
> I would buy any timeshare that I felt confident that I could make a $5000 profit on.
> 
> I book mostly 7-night stays either for using WorldMark resorts or exchanging with independents and I book a lot of them.  I find that I don't really need the No HK account.  I may sell it.  From a pure economic standpoint, it only makes sense if you book a lot of partial week stays every year in WorldMark resorts.  Otherwise, you don't need it.



True, I forgot.  Wyndham's computers require an 11 digit number so you must pad the account with leading zeros - mine is 0000 100 xxxx.  There could be a 200 XXXX series and I guess, over the years, the NHK account has accidentally been merged with a normal account and the new account number would be totally different.

That's why the history is important - when did the first reservation occur and even then many WM owners buy an account from the salesrep and don't use if for a while.  When you call in to confirm ownership of an account (Need the seller's permission by having them send in a letter, eMail or phone call) ask if it is a NHK account.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 29, 2007)

PerryM said:


> True, I forgot.  Wyndham's computers require an 11 digit number so you must pad the account with leading zeros - mine is 0000 100 xxxx.  There could be a 200 XXXX series and I guess, over the years, the NHK account has accidentally been merged with a normal account and the new account number would be totally different.
> 
> That's why the history is important - when did the first reservation occur and even then many WM owners buy an account from the salesrep and don't use if for a while.  When you call in to confirm ownership of an account (Need the seller's permission by having them send in a letter, eMail or phone call) ask if it is a NHK account.



I think the first reservation principle is the right one.  My account does not have a 200 XXXX structure either.


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## roadsister (Jul 29, 2007)

"If you should find a seller of a WM account, just ask them what was the earliest reservation - if it's from 1992 or earlier you have a NHK on your hands."

I BELIEVE no housekeepings were from 1989 to July, 1991.


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## PerryM (Jul 29, 2007)

roadsister said:


> "If you should find a seller of a WM account, just ask them what was the earliest reservation - if it's from 1992 or earlier you have a NHK on your hands."
> 
> I BELIEVE no housekeepings were from 1989 to July, 1991.



Was that Club Esprit?  And when WorldMark was formed they Grandfather'd those folk in with No Housekeeping?

Thanks


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## roadsister (Jul 29, 2007)

"If you should find a seller of a WM account, just ask them what was the earliest reservation - if it's from 1992 or earlier you have a NHK on your hands."

I BELIEVE no housekeeping memberships were from 1989 to July, 1991.


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