# New Marriott Rewards Property Categories and Travel Package Requirements effective Aug '18



## jmhpsu93

Thought this needed its own thread, I also posted in the main merger one.  Mods:  adjust accordingly.

New Charts:

https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change

New Packages:

https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf

A cursory check of a few properties indicates what MR told us...some go up, some go down, though for an example like Orlando, there are roughly triple the number of downs vs. ups.  And the 35K value of a the free night on the MRCC is MUCH more valuable than the current Cat 5 one...lots more options.


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## StevenTing

Looks like a mileage drop in the new packages.  Plus to go from 50k to 100k Miles is a difference is 75k points.  

I guess I will be making a 5 night package reservation soon.


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## jmhpsu93

StevenTing said:


> _*Looks like a mileage drop in the new packages*_.  Plus to go from 50k to 100k Miles is a difference is 75k points.
> 
> I guess I will be making a 5 night package reservation soon.



That doesn't surprise me - that was one of the best value uses of MR points out there.  When you couple it with the ability to earn a SW Companion Pass (no longer in play as of March 2017...), it was a really great value per point.


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## mjm1

Thanks for sharing. They don't mention the 5 night package for MVC owners, but they usually don't. So, hopefully that won't change.

Mike


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## VacationForever

When does the new chart for travel packages take effect?


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## Steve Fatula

StevenTing said:


> Looks like a mileage drop in the new packages.  Plus to go from 50k to 100k Miles is a difference is 75k points.
> 
> I guess I will be making a 5 night package reservation soon.



Me too. I need some United miles for next years Thailand trip, and, it would be very bad if I don't get as many! I am assuming it would go into effect in August.


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## SueDonJ

jmhpsu93 said:


> Thought this needed its own thread, I also posted in the main merger one.  Mods:  adjust accordingly.
> 
> New Charts:
> 
> https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
> 
> New Packages:
> 
> https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf
> 
> A cursory check of a few properties indicates what MR told us...some go up, some go down, though for an example like Orlando, there are roughly triple the number of downs vs. ups.  And the 35K value of a the free night on the MRCC is MUCH more valuable than the current Cat 5 one...lots more options.



Thanks, jmhpsu. I edited your other post so as to prevent duplicate information in two different threads in the same TUG forum, and also changed the title of this one to help with the search function.


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## VacationForever

Steve Fatula said:


> Me too. I need some United miles for next years Thailand trip, and, it would be very bad if I don't get any many! I am assuming it would go into effect in August.


Ditto.  I will be calling when I get home late afternoon.


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## SueDonJ

mjm1 said:


> Thanks for sharing. They don't mention the 5 night package for MVC owners, but they usually don't. So, hopefully that won't change.
> 
> Mike



I'd definitely expect changes to the MVC-Owner 5-Night packages to line up consistently with the metric of these new 7-Night packages. Hopefully MVW is working on releasing that new info (along with the info related to MVC-Owner MR status which has been a long time coming.)


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## SueDonJ

Talking only about how easy it is to dissect the property category info, MI did a good job compiling this list IMO. Notice that clicking on the headers, BRAND-COUNTRY/REGION-etc, will re-sort everything for you. I don't remember if previous lists worked the same but I like it.


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## Steve Fatula

SueDonJ said:


> Talking only about how easy it is to dissect the property category info, MI did a good job compiling this list IMO. Notice that clicking on the headers, BRAND-COUNTRY/REGION-etc, will re-sort everything for you. I don't remember if previous lists worked the same but I like it.



Yes, it also claims you can search by award category, which would be very nice, but I don't see how. A senior moment?


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## jmhpsu93

Steve Fatula said:


> Yes, it also claims you can search by award category, which would be very nice, but I don't see how. A senior moment?



I don't know if you can search, but you can sort.


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## SueDonJ

Steve Fatula said:


> Yes, it also claims you can search by award category, which would be very nice, but I don't see how. A senior moment?



Click on the down-arrow in the last column header, NEW AWARD CATEGORY then scroll through to the category you want.

The first click will sort high-to-low, second low-to-high.

And note for all those highest 8* properties: _"*An eighth category will be added in early 2019. Until then, Category 8 hotels will be available at Category 7 pricing."_


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## Steve Fatula

SueDonJ said:


> Click on the down-arrow in the last column header, NEW AWARD CATEGORY then scroll through to the category you want.
> 
> The first click will sort high-to-low, second low-to-high.
> 
> And note for all those highest *8 properties: _"*An eighth category will be added in early 2019. Until then, Category 8 hotels will be available at Category 7 pricing."_



Yeah, I know that. The search box text itself says you can search by category. But I can't find how. I want cat 4, yes, I can sort and guess which page and eventually get to cat4, but, was just hoping the text was correct and it was just me who couldn't figure out how to find all cat4.


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## SueDonJ

Steve Fatula said:


> Yeah, I know that. The search box text itself says you can search by category. But I can't find how. I want cat 4, yes, I can sort and guess which page and eventually get to cat4, but, was just hoping the text was correct and it was just me who couldn't figure out how to find all cat4.



Ah, now I see. The only number search I can get to work is 8* because it's unique; a number search of 6 or 4, for example, brings up everything with that number in any field, and a "CategoryX" search brings up nothing. If they're watching here or flyertalk, maybe they'll fix that function.


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## Steve Fatula

SueDonJ said:


> Ah, now I see. The only number search I can get to work is 8* because it's unique; a number search of 6 or 4, for example, brings up everything with that number in any field, and a "CategoryX" search brings up nothing. If they're watching here or flyertalk, maybe they'll fix that function.



Yes, now you got it. I just wish it would search by category (as it says), that's handy.


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## JanT

Wow!  Those are some big numbers jumps for travel packages!!


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## cwtkm3

The best bit about this programme is far more choice in Europe. I'm really pleased to see the Ritz Carlton Penha Longa resort is going to be a cat 5.

The downside as far as I can see is that I'll be losing 20,000 British Airways Avios miles so I'm thinking I should book a travel package before 1st August.

Question is what is the new category 5 equivalent to in the existing Marriott travel package? The new cat 5 7 nights with 100,000 Avios is 390,000. So do I order a current Marriott 7 night cat 9? Confused.


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## icydog

I have been on hold for 30 minutes already. Cxxp they just hung up on me!


 I originally booked a 5 night cat 5 reward package for UA witn 132,000 frequent flyer miles for 235,000 MRP

Then I re-thought everything.  I changed my mind and wanted to upgrade to a cat 7.  

I called MCVI back, who then transferred me to Marriott Rewards. After a long wait, I was able to change my TP to a 5 night Cat 7. In fact, I ordered 2 of these packages (since I often bring friends with me and they’re a married couple)

So instead of the upcharge of 35k points (on my original cert) from a cat 5 @ 235K to a cat 7 @ 270k they charged me 45K. They got the second reward correct and charged me 270K for that one.  So I’m out 10k MRP points.

This is so messed up. The MVCI people didn’t know how to upgrade the catagory so they transferred me to the Rewards Desk.   And the Rewards people obviously made a mistake in their arithmetic. Then when I tried to call back to get it all straightened out, and after 30 minutes on hold, someone came on and immediately hung up!

In case you need it here’s the 5 night point chart:

5 Nights + 50k Miles 5 Nights + 70k Miles 5 Nights + 100k Miles 5 Nights + 120k Miles
Category 1-5 165k 185k 215k 235k
Category 6 180k 200k 230k 250k
Category 7 200k 220k 250k 270k
Category 8 230k 250k 280k 300k


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## mjm1

I just ordered two- 5 night packages. It took a while as the person was not familiar with Marriott owners being able to get a 5 night package. After discussions with a supervisor they were able to figure it out. When you call ask for Loyalty Care and if they aren't familiar with it they can look in their information section for "Marriott Owner Travel Package." The instructions are provided there. My reward code is 650T, which may be a general code for the 5 night package. 

My MRP's are now wiped out, so we will have to rebuild it. Fun times.

Best regards.

Mike


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## CalGalTraveler

Can resale timeshare owners gain access to the 5 night packages or is this only for developer purchases?  

Any word on whether Starwood/Vistana Owners will have access to the 5 night packages after the Aug 1 merger?


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## Superchief

I noticed that two of my favorites (Wentworth by the Sea and Mayflower ) are both going up 5000 per night. Mayflower's increases are the same for both hotel and MVC awards. I may have missed it, but are these the peak or standard award point requirements?


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## Superchief




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## Superchief

I expect there will be a lot more 'peak' nights available than 'off peak', so these will result in significantly higher point requirements for popular locations during vacation seasons.


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## WBP

Wow, the Equinox in Manchester, Vermont goes up 14,000 points per night (maybe more, once Category 8 is announced).


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## Steve Fatula

Yep, lots of difference. The biggest increase is the Domes of Elounda in Greece, +40,000! The San Francisco St Regis ties for the biggest decrease, -30,000. If you sort on that column, there are 35 full pages of decreases, at 100 per page. There are 21 full pages of increases. The rest remain the same.


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## NboroGirl

Can we book a stay before Aug. 1, using the old point charts, for a stay next year (before the points go up?)  The place I'm interested in is going up 15,000 points/night.


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## VacationForever

NboroGirl said:


> Can we book a stay before Aug. 1, using the old point charts, for a stay next year (before the points go up?)  The place I'm interested in is going up 15,000 points/night.


YES!  I have already used 3 separate 5-night stays, through the travel packages, 2 for Dec 2018 and 1 for May 2019.  I checked and all 3 hotels are going up in points requirement.


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## TXTortoise

Do you book your stay with points or can I make a reservation for cash and then move points later, though I guess if I want to leverage the current charts I have to commit the points before then.

What happens if you cancel a point reservation, do you can the points back and the FF miles are recovered also?

If cancelled after 1 Aug, I guess you would get back what was used, not whatever the new amount is for a reservation?


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## mas

CalGalTraveler said:


> Can resale timeshare owners gain access to the 5 night packages or is this only for developer purchases?
> 
> Any word on whether Starwood/Vistana Owners will have access to the 5 night packages after the Aug 1 merger?


I suspect that if your name is listed as owner of the Marriott timeshare you are eligible for the 5 night pkg.  

Regarding the Starwood owner access before Aug 1st, my guess is they would not have access to the 5 night deal as they aren't listed as Marriott owners.  They would have access to the 7 day deal by converting the Starwood points to Marriott at the 1 to 3 rate and then ordering a 7 day travel pkg.


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## VacationForever

TXTortoise said:


> Do you book your stay with points or can I make a reservation for cash and then move points later, though I guess if I want to leverage the current charts I have to commit the points before then.
> 
> What happens if you cancel a point reservation, do you can the points back and the FF miles are recovered also?
> 
> If cancelled after 1 Aug, I guess you would get back what was used, not whatever the new amount is for a reservation?



Do you have enough Marriott Rewards Points now and know where you want to go to?  If you do, here are the steps:
1. Decide on the hotel and current category that you want to stay at and make sure they do have rooms that can be booked using rewards.
2. Call to order travel reward package, with the airline loyalty # that you want the miles to go to.
3. Call, you cannot do it online, to book the hotel with rewards and have the agent attach the hotel stay portion of the reward to the reservation. 

If you change your mind about the hotel or the dates, you can cancel the hotel reservation and the hotel certificate will return to your account as certificate, not as points.  You can change the certificate up or down in categories, and the agent will adjust the points to be returned to you or to take from you, and rebook another hotel and attach the certificate to it.


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## VacationForever

Does anyone have thoughts as to whether we should redeem a 5-night travel package for the lowest category, 1-5, or the highest category, 9, or somewhere in-between, as a placeholder now as we adjust to the new points after August for a future To Be Decided stay?

I just redeemed for a Cat 1-5, but now I am wondering if I should have gone for a higher package as I expect more overall inflation, worse for higher when compared to a lower category.


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## Quilter

VacationForever said:


> Does anyone have thoughts as to whether we should redeem a 5-night travel package for the lowest category, 1-5, or the highest category, 9, or somewhere in-between, as a placeholder now as we adjust to the new points after August for a future To Be Decided stay?
> 
> I just redeemed for a Cat 1-5, but now I am wondering if I should have gone for a higher package as I expect more overall inflation, worse for higher when compared to a lower category.



If you change later they may cancel the first certificate and refund the hotel portion and then charge you the new hotel portion.


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## tompk

I was recently told that an existing hotel certificate will be redeemable for a hotel in that same category, so if I am holding a certificate for 7 nights at a category then it will be good for a category 7 in August and beyond.  So you can redeem for a cat 7 package right now at the bargain rates and redeem it next year for a cat 7 Ritz Carlton that will be going for 60k points per night.


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## Superchief

Steve Fatula said:


> Yep, lots of difference. The biggest increase is the Domes of Elounda in Greece, +40,000! The San Francisco St Regis ties for the biggest decrease, -30,000. If you sort on that column, there are 35 full pages of decreases, at 100 per page. There are 21 full pages of increases. The rest remain the same.


Keep in mind that current points levels are always the same, while the new rewards are likely to often require peak level requirements. One of my favorites went down 2500 points for standard, but would be at the same level for 'peak'. It will be interesting to see the proportion of available dates for each level. I expect some of the more popular destinations will frequently require peak points.


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## NboroGirl

VacationForever said:


> Does anyone have thoughts as to whether we should redeem a 5-night travel package for the lowest category, 1-5, or the highest category, 9, or somewhere in-between, as a placeholder now as we adjust to the new points after August for a future To Be Decided stay?
> 
> I just redeemed for a Cat 1-5, but now I am wondering if I should have gone for a higher package as I expect more overall inflation, worse for higher when compared to a lower category.



I'm in the same quandary.  I want to spend my points on a travel package before the price goes up, but I don't yet know where I would want to use the hotel certificates, so I don't know which category to select.  I'm limited by my points - I only have about 264,000 and I would like to maximize my miles so I won't be picking the top category.  It will be 1-5, 6, or 7.


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## VacationForever

NboroGirl said:


> I'm in the same quandary.  I want to spend my points on a travel package before the price goes up, but I don't yet know where I would want to use the hotel certificates, so I don't know which category to select.  I'm limited by my points - I only have about 264,000 and I would like to maximize my miles so I won't be picking the top category.  It will be 1-5, 6, or 7.


I already know that we want to use the nights in Sydney for our 2020 trip.  My travel is already full in 2018 and 2019 which includes 3 5-night hotel stays.  I guess I need to decide on which hotel in Sydney and go from there.  I will call back tomorrow to change the category to take more points, and then hopefully a year out, they will let me change the expiration out a year.


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## Steve A

There appears to be a huge increase in the number of points required in the travel packages for the current level 9 London hotels like Park Lane. Currently it costs 390,000 points for seven nights and 120,00ff miles. Under the new plan it will require 570,000 points and you only get 100,000ff miles. Please correct me if I’m mistaken. Also it’s harder to get the points since we will be loosing the three points transfer from the SPG AMEX to MR.


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## NboroGirl

Question:  Let's say I choose category 5 for my reward certificates.  The new category list shows Grande Vista as category 5, but it doesn't say what size villa - I assume it's for a guest room. What if down the road I need a 1 or 2 BR, can I use more points on top of my hotel certificates to get a larger unit?  Or are the larger units a different category?

Can you upgrade on the fly?  If I have five category 5 certificates, would I be able to use any towards a higher category hotel if I have enough points to upgrade at the time I want to stay there?.


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## VacationForever

NboroGirl said:


> Question:  Let's say I choose category 5 for my reward certificates.  The new category list shows Grande Vista as category 5, but it doesn't say what size villa - I assume it's for a guest room. What if down the road I need a 1 or 2 BR, can I use more points on top of my hotel certificates to get a larger unit?  Or are the larger units a different category?
> 
> Can you upgrade on the fly?  If I have five category 5 certificates, would I be able to use any towards a higher category hotel if I have enough points to upgrade at the time I want to stay there?.


To go up 1 size bedroom, the current points requirement is 5K per night, so to go from a standard studio size to 2BR, you are looking at 10K per night, for 5 nights, it will cost another 50K.  We do not know how that point requirement for size upgrade will be post August 2018.


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## mjm1

VacationForever said:


> I already know that we want to use the nights in Sydney for our 2020 trip.  My travel is already full in 2018 and 2019 which includes 3 5-night hotel stays.  I guess I need to decide on which hotel in Sydney and go from there.  I will call back tomorrow to change the category to take more points, and then hopefully a year out, they will let me change the expiration out a year.



We used a 5 night certificate a few years ago for Marriott on Circular Quay and really enjoyed the hotel as well as the central location. We were able to walk to all of the sites we wanted to see in Sydney from there. And I just redeemed points for another 5 night stay there with the intent of using it next year. It is a category 8 hotel. With 120,000 miles it cost 300,000 MRP's. Highly recommend it.

Best regards.

Mike


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## dansimms

When will the chart come out that says when Peak and Non Peak periods?


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## WBP

Steve A said:


> There appears to be a huge increase in the number of points required in the travel packages for the current level 9 London hotels like Park Lane. Currently it costs 390,000 points for seven nights and 120,00ff miles. Under the new plan it will require 570,000 points and you only get 100,000ff miles. Please correct me if I’m mistaken. Also it’s harder to get the points since we will be loosing the three points transfer from the SPG AMEX to MR.




“We listened to the travel aspirations of our members and set our sights on unlocking the full potential of our loyalty programs,” said David Flueck, Senior Vice President of Global Loyalty, Marriott International."


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## TXTortoise

VacationForever said:


> Do you have enough Marriott Rewards Points now and know where you want to go to?  If you do, here are the steps:
> 1. Decide on the hotel and current category that you want to stay at and make sure they do have rooms that can be booked using rewards.
> 2. Call to order travel reward package, with the airline loyalty # that you want the miles to go to.
> 3. Call, you cannot do it online, to book the hotel with rewards and have the agent attach the hotel stay portion of the reward to the reservation.
> 
> If you change your mind about the hotel or the dates, you can cancel the hotel reservation and the hotel certificate will return to your account as certificate, not as points.  You can change the certificate up or down in categories, and the agent will adjust the points to be returned to you or to take from you, and rebook another hotel and attach the certificate to it.



**********
Thanks VF, if I transfer SPG now I'll have 800K plus in MRs.  Future travel is the quandary.

With respect to airline loyalty, we trend to American for our Texas to Hawaii travel, but for international travel I'd look first to non-domestic airlines, preferably business class or premium economy.
If I deposit to United, I assume those miles can be used across their Star Alliance Partners, i.e., they become a holding bucket.

I've mostly been accumulating points for the last two years, so haven't had to master the usage details yet, but 1 August does seem to be critical point at the moment.

Given my unknowns, would it also make sense to book a target hotel as far out as possible or is it a one-year usage window, with hope they would allow me to extend, i.e., thinking late 2019 and 2020.

Considering: Two 7-day or maybe three 5-day Category 7 certificates.


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## VacationForever

TXTortoise said:


> **********
> Thanks VF, if I transfer SPG now I'll have 800K plus in MRs.  Future travel is the quandary.
> 
> With respect to airline loyalty, we trend to American for our Texas to Hawaii travel, but for international travel I'd look first to non-domestic airlines, preferably business class or premium economy.
> If I deposit to United, I assume those miles can be used across their Star Alliance Partners, i.e., they become a holding bucket.
> 
> I've mostly been accumulating points for the last two years, so haven't had to master the usage details yet, but 1 August does seem to be critical point at the moment.
> 
> Given my unknowns, would it also make sense to book a target hotel as far out as possible or is it a one-year usage window, with hope they would allow me to extend, i.e., thinking late 2019 and 2020.
> 
> Considering: Two 7-day or maybe three 5-day Category 7 certificates.


You do not need to book a hotel.  The 12-month certificate can just sit in your account and up to this point, the agents have extended the certificates when you call them.


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## hangloose

If I have an existing 7 Day Cat 8 hotel certificate, I cannot tell what Category that maps to after August 1st?  Does it change?   Or does it remain at a Cat 8 in the new combined system?


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## hangloose

And note for all those highest 8* properties: _"*An eighth category will be added in early 2019. Until then, Category 8 hotels will be available at Category 7 pricing."_

Does this mean we should look highest cat 8 properties after Aug 1st, since they will be billed via MR Pts at Cat 7 until early 2019?  Basically....a one category upgrade for free?


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## VacationForever

hangloose said:


> If I have an existing 7 Day Cat 8 hotel certificate, I cannot tell what Category that maps to after August 1st?  Does it change?   Or does it remain at a Cat 8 in the new combined system?


It may or may not remain as whatever its current Category.  But I think we may be able to do some analysis here... because the hotels' new redemption values have been published, we can go back to the original announcement of the new categories and map it accordingly.  I cannot find the original announcement yet.  I am tired tonight so I will look at it tomorrow.


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## jeepie

icydog said:


> In case you need it here’s the 5 night point chart:
> 
> 5 Nights + 50k Miles 5 Nights + 70k Miles 5 Nights + 100k Miles 5 Nights + 120k Miles
> Category 1-5 165k 185k 215k 235k
> Category 6 180k 200k 230k 250k
> Category 7 200k 220k 250k 270k
> Category 8 230k 250k 280k 300k


Thanks icydog, 
Has this been published anywhere yet? Just curious if it’s final. TIA.


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## dioxide45

jeepie said:


> Thanks icydog,
> Has this been published anywhere yet? Just curious if it’s final. TIA.


Those are the current five night redemption values. No word on what the new ones will be or if they will even continue to offer them.


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## jtp1947

@CalGalTraveler: Resale owners can get a 5 night package.


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## NboroGirl

VacationForever said:


> To go up 1 size bedroom, the current points requirement is 5K per night, so to go from a standard studio size to 2BR, you are looking at 10K per night, for 5 nights, it will cost another 50K.  We do not know how that point requirement for size upgrade will be post August 2018.



I know all that.  My question was:  Will Marriott allow me to use a certificate for a Category 5 night for a larger villa if I am willing to pay the difference in points?  A similar but slightly different question is: Will Marriott allow me to use a certificate for a Category 5 night if I decide later I want to stay at a Category 6 hotel *if* I am willing to pay the difference in points?

My dilemma is:  I don't know yet where I would use the hotel portion of a travel package, so I don't know which category to select.  If I know that I can later upgrade a certificate with points, I will just choose a lower category and upgrade if/when I need to.  (I hope that's clear.)


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## Fasttr

NboroGirl said:


> I know all that.  My question was:  Will Marriott allow me to use a certificate for a Category 5 night for a larger villa if I am willing to pay the difference in points?  A similar but slightly different question is: Will Marriott allow me to use a certificate for a Category 5 night if I decide later I want to stay at a Category 6 hotel *if* I am willing to pay the difference in points?
> 
> My dilemma is:  I don't know yet where I would use the hotel portion of a travel package, so I don't know which category to select.  If I know that I can later upgrade a certificate with points, I will just choose a lower category and upgrade if/when I need to.  (I hope that's clear.)


They have historically allowed you to move up or down in categories via taking or refunding the point difference that the package would have cost if you had purchased it in the first place.  

We can only assume they will continue to allow this in the future.


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## Superchief

You will be able to book hotels at the current point requirement until August 1. However, most hotels don't release inventory until 330 days prior, and some release it later. Therefore, I would assume we will only be able to use current levels through about June 30, 2019.

Keep in mind that Marriott assigns weird point values to the hotel portion of the 5 night travel package. For example, my 5 night category 9 is assigned a 105k point value, not the 180k I would expect. I assume they would only return 105k to my account if I cancel it. If you plan to redeem a 5 night package now, I highly recommend using the hotel award level you think you would actually use.


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## jpa2825

So are we to assume that Peak and Off-Peak are irrelevant to Travel Packages? 

For example, if I try to book the 7 nights from a Cat 6 travel package are all dates going to be available? Might they say "those dates are during a Peak period so it will take 70k additional MR Points to book those nights"? I'm pretty sure they're not going to say "those dates are during an Off-Peak period so we will deposit 70k MR Points if you book those nights". Might Peak periods simply be blacked out to redeem with travel package certificates?


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## Steve Fatula

jpa2825 said:


> So are we to assume that Peak and Off-Peak are irrelevant to Travel Packages?
> 
> For example, if I try to book the 7 nights from a Cat 6 travel package are all dates going to be available? Might they say "those dates are during a Peak period so it will take 70k additional MR Points to book those nights"? I'm pretty sure they're not going to say "those dates are during an Off-Peak period so we will deposit 70k MR Points if you book those nights". Might Peak periods simply be blacked out to redeem with travel package certificates?



Not sure you can assume anything. The reality is, no one here knows for sure until it is announced. Maybe they need peak, standard, and off peak travel packages.


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## jpa2825

Early Conclusions:

If you are fairly confident of a 5/7 night hotel stay you'll be making before ~JUN 30 2019, it makes sense to buy a current travel package and make the reservation (with the above instructions to attach the cert to the reservation). You'll get more miles and likely a better hotel than under the new travel packages they have announced. If your plans change and you have to cancel the hotel, you can hope for how that will be treated / extended.

If you feel lucky and have a current MR point level that will support it, buy a current travel package as an arbitrage against the future devaluation under the new system. Hope that they treat a pre-AUG 1 Cat X cert the same as a post-AUG 1 Cat X cert and book the hotel when you know your plans. Hope also that the past conduct on freely extending such certs past their 1 yr. termination continues if you need it.


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## Superchief

WJS said:


> “We listened to the travel aspirations of our members and set our sights on unlocking the full potential of our loyalty programs,” said David Flueck, Senior Vice President of Global Loyalty, Marriott International."


I've worked in Marketing research for the past 40+ years for medium and large corporations in various industries. In the early years, we were always trying to identify ways to make things better for our customers/ consumers in order to have a competitive edge. That changed 10-15 years ago to : how do we fool customers to make them pay more for less, and call it 'an enhancement'. That is why I am skeptical every time a corporation communicates how they 'listened to the customer to enhance the program. If you notice, they emphasize that more hotels went down in points than up. However, most of the decreases were for Courtyards and lower end properties, while there were significant increases (not including 'peak') for Autograph and other FS  premium brands, especially in prime locations.


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## ACP

With the new Travel Packages there now appears to only be two mileage selections 50,000 and 100,000 - do we know if this will be all that will be available or are they examples?
Also the number of points needed under the current Travel Package varies by different airlines with some airlines you get more miles than others whereas the information available lists all participating airlines with the same number of miles and points for all of them, so it's simpler but a lot more expensive.  Is my understanding right?

Regarding Hotels  - I've read all the threads on this topic and still not sure how to get the best value with an existing 7 night Cat 6 Hotel Certificate that I have in my account.   To get the best value, would it be better to select a cat 6 hotel under the new list where the value of the points has gone up or one where the points that has gone down.  Just can't get my head around which is the better value (Senior Moment), what would also be helpful is knowing is a hotel that was Category 8 but will be Cat 6 in August that I can wait until August to redeem.

Hope some knowledgable TUGGERS can shed some light


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## Superchief

The MVC redemption requirements have increased more than most other hotel chains. This should increase rental values because more MR members will be seeking other ways to stay at these family friendly resorts.


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## markbernstein

I got an email yesterday with links to all sorts of new (to me, anyway) information about the merged points programs, including a link to a database of new hotel points costs (https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change?nck=25729371&ck=23625489&lk=1000280117), and one to a spot where I could download a PDF on hotel/miles packages (https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf).

The good news is that there will still be hotel/miles packages. The bad news is that they're going to cost a lot more.

Here's my real-world example. My wife and I are planning to spend two weeks in Ireland in August of 2019, including a week in Dublin. The only Marriott-branded property in Dublin is the Shelbourne Dublin, a Renaissance hotel. Under the old program, the cost was 45,000 point per night, which meant that a package including a 7-night stay there and 100,000 miles (my preferred program is Delta Skymiles) would cost 370,000 Rewards points.

Under the new program, the Shelbourne is category 7, costing 60,000 points per night. (There's also a Westin Dublin, which is also category 7.) And a package for 7 nights there plus 100,000 miles now costs 570,000 points. So the cost for 100K miles has jumped from 100K to 210K Rewards points. (Do I remember correctly that a straight trade of points for mile is 3 points = 1 mile?)

Fortunately, we have enough points to cover this. 

ADDENDUM: As I was researching and writing this, I found there's another hotel coming. The Aloft Dublin, a Starwood property, will be opening this November, and it's only category 4. That lowers the cost of the package to 330,000 points. (Which works out to 150K for the 7 nights - 25K per night with one night free - and 180K for the 100K miles.) Not too bad.


----------



## lfarmwife1961

markbernstein said:


> I got an email yesterday with links to all sorts of new (to me, anyway) information about the merged points programs, including a link to a database of new hotel points costs (https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change?nck=25729371&ck=23625489&lk=1000280117), and one to a spot where I could download a PDF on hotel/miles packages (https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf).
> 
> The good news is that there will still be hotel/miles packages. The bad news is that they're going to cost a lot more.
> 
> Here's my real-world example. My wife and I are planning to spend two weeks in Ireland in August of 2019, including a week in Dublin. The only Marriott-branded property in Dublin is the Shelbourne Dublin, a Renaissance hotel. Under the old program, the cost was 45,000 point per night, which meant that a package including a 7-night stay there and 100,000 miles (my preferred program is Delta Skymiles) would cost 370,000 Rewards points.
> 
> Under the new program, the Shelbourne is category 7, costing 60,000 points per night. (There's also a Westin Dublin, which is also category 7.) And a package for 7 nights there plus 100,000 miles now costs 570,000 points. So the cost for 100K miles has jumped from 100K to 210K Rewards points. (Do I remember correctly that a straight trade of points for mile is 3 points = 1 mile?)
> 
> Fortunately, we have enough points to cover this.
> 
> ADDENDUM: As I was researching and writing this, I found there's another hotel coming. The Aloft Dublin, a Starwood property, will be opening this November, and it's only category 4. That lowers the cost of the package to 330,000 points. (Which works out to 150K for the 7 nights - 25K per night with one night free - and 180K for the 100K miles.) Not too bad.


We stayed at the Westin Dublin a few years ago.  The hotel is beautiful and in a very good location, if that helps!


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## mjm1

I spoke with a rep today as I was helping my FIL redeem points for a 5 night package. I asked her and a supervisor about the points required for a 5 night package starting on or after Aug. 1 and they had no idea. I mentioned I had access to a points chart for 7 night stays, but they didn’t have any idea about that either. I guess we will just have to wait and see what is announced.

Best regards.

Mike


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## WBP

Superchief said:


> I've worked in Marketing research for the past 40+ years for medium and large corporations in various industries. In the early years, we were always trying to identify ways to make things better for our customers/ consumers in order to have a competitive edge. That changed 10-15 years ago to : how do we fool customers to make them pay more for less, and call it 'an enhancement'. That is why I am skeptical every time a corporation communicates how they 'listened to the customer to enhance the program. If you notice, they emphasize that more hotels went down in points than up. However, most of the decreases were for Courtyards and lower end properties, while there were significant increases (not including 'peak') for Autograph and other FS  premium brands, especially in prime locations.



I think you are spot on. I walked away from Marriott International's roll-out of their new brand loyalty program, and said that Mr. Fluek is a consummate Spin Meister, and I thought to myself, where there's smoke, there's fire.

I think Mr. Flueck could sell snow to eskimos, without any difficulty.

For MVCI Owners, I think the value proposition of exchanging a timeshare week for Marriott Rewards points (do you remember when a Travel Package was 200,000 Marriott Rewards points, and included an 8 day Hertz rental car?) is a thing of the past (under the terms of the August 2018 update/revision of the Marriott Rewards program). Fortunately, we can still enjoy great vacations at our Home Resort, and at other Marriott Vacation Club resorts, by exchanging from one Marriott Vacation Club resort to another, via Interval International.

SEE this 45 minute video: 


	
	






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2095479260466710


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## Safti

New Marriott Travel Package dilemma. I have two five night Travel Packages in my account currently. One is a category 5 and the other is a category 7. I was planning to attach my category 7 TP at The Renaissance Tel Aviv after August. Now I see that the hotel has gone down from a Cat. 7 to a Cat. 5 after August. Still same number of points required per night (35K). Will I be able to attach my Cat. 5 TP instead of my Cat. 7 TP? That way I could save my Cat. 7 TP for a more valuable stay. So, in fact, this Marriott dilemma goes in the other direction than most people are posting. My category hotel is going down instead of up and I don't know which Travel Package to use.


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## dioxide45

Safti said:


> New Marriott Travel Package dilemma. I have two five night Travel Packages in my account currently. One is a category 5 and the other is a category 7. I was planning to attach my category 7 TP at The Renaissance Tel Aviv after August. Now I see that the hotel has gone down from a Cat. 7 to a Cat. 5 after August. Still same number of points required per night (35K). Will I be able to attach my Cat. 5 TP instead of my Cat. 7 TP? That way I could save my Cat. 7 TP for a more valuable stay. So, in fact, this Marriott dilemma goes in the other direction than most people are posting. My category hotel is going down instead of up and I don't know which Travel Package to use.


I don't think Marriott has said or confirmed how they will map existing certificates that people have in their accounts. So it is anybody's guess.


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## Safti

I am writing to Marriott to ask that question


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## Steve A

Marriott is not your friend.


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## ljmiii

A question for anyone who has upgraded a 5 night hotel certificate. If you upgraded a cat 5 (25K/nt) to a cat 7 (35K/nt) did it cost 50,000 MRs?  Or 40,000 MRs (because of 5th night 'free')? Or some other number? I'm looking to get a 5 night stay in Aug 2019 in what will be a 60K/nt cat 7 hotel and running the numbers. If the charge will be 5 * pt/nt difference then cat 7 seems to be the sweet spot. If an old cat 7 certificate buys a new cat 7 stay then it is obviously so.

cat 5 - 235K + (60K-25K/nt = 35K * 5 =) 175K = 410K
cat 6 - 250K + (60K-30K/nt = 30K * 5 =) 150K = 400K
cat 7 - 270K + (60K-35K/nt = 25K * 5 =) 125K = 395K
cat 8 - 300K + (60K-35K/nt = 20K * 5 =) 100K = 400K
cat 9 - 345K + (60K-45K/nt = 15K * 5 =)  75K = 420K


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## dioxide45

ljmiii said:


> A question for anyone who has upgraded a 5 night hotel certificate. If you upgraded a cat 5 (25K/nt) to a cat 7 (35K/nt) did it cost 50,000 MRs?  Or 40,000 MRs (because of 5th night 'free')? Or some other number? I'm looking to get a 5 night stay in Aug 2019 in what will be a 60K/nt cat 7 hotel and running the numbers. If the charge will be 5 * pt/nt difference then cat 7 seems to be the sweet spot. If an old cat 7 certificate buys a new cat 7 stay then it is obviously so.
> 
> cat 5 - 235K + (60K-25K/nt = 35K * 5 =) 175K = 410K
> cat 6 - 250K + (60K-30K/nt = 30K * 5 =) 150K = 400K
> cat 7 - 270K + (60K-35K/nt = 25K * 5 =) 125K = 395K
> cat 8 - 300K + (60K-35K/nt = 20K * 5 =) 100K = 400K
> cat 9 - 345K + (60K-45K/nt = 15K * 5 =)  75K = 420K


There is no fifth night free with the five night travel package. Technically you pay the difference in points between the two packages, but I have seen it reported that there is a glitch upgrading to a category 9 where it doesn't cost as much.


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## Steve A

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think Marriott has said or confirmed how they will map existing certificates that people have in their accounts. So it is anybody's guess.



A few years ago I ran into this problem, and they honored the initial reservation at the lower MR level.  I’m looking to make a reservation in London at a level nine hotel for next May using a seven day travel package, but overall Marriot has done little to earn my trust so I’m hesitant until I get more information.


----------



## dioxide45

ljmiii said:


> A question for anyone who has upgraded a 5 night hotel certificate. If you upgraded a cat 5 (25K/nt) to a cat 7 (35K/nt) did it cost 50,000 MRs?  Or 40,000 MRs (because of 5th night 'free')? Or some other number? I'm looking to get a 5 night stay in Aug 2019 in what will be a 60K/nt cat 7 hotel and running the numbers. If the charge will be 5 * pt/nt difference then cat 7 seems to be the sweet spot. If an old cat 7 certificate buys a new cat 7 stay then it is obviously so.
> 
> cat 5 - 235K + (60K-25K/nt = 35K * 5 =) 175K = 410K
> cat 6 - 250K + (60K-30K/nt = 30K * 5 =) 150K = 400K
> cat 7 - 270K + (60K-35K/nt = 25K * 5 =) 125K = 395K
> cat 8 - 300K + (60K-35K/nt = 20K * 5 =) 100K = 400K
> cat 9 - 345K + (60K-45K/nt = 15K * 5 =)  75K = 420K


There is no fifth night free with the five night travel package. Technically you pay the difference in points between the two packages, but I have seen it reported that there is a glitch upgrading to a category 9 where it doesn't cost as much.


----------



## ljmiii

Steve A said:


> A few years ago I ran into this problem, and they honored the initial reservation at the lower MR level.  I’m looking to make a reservation in London at a level nine hotel for next May using a seven day travel package, but overall Marriott has done little to earn my trust so I’m hesitant until I get more information.


I just got off the phone with a Marriott Rewards representative (while I bought my Air + Hotel packages). He confirmed that if you book before August 1st using a rewards certificate for a post-August stay Marriott would honor that certificate even if the point value of the hotel was increasing.

What he didn't know (and I don't think Marriott has made clear to anyone) is how I'll be able to use the certificates I just bought if I book after August 1st. Will an (old) category 7 certificate buy a new category 7 stay? Or will that category 7 35K pt/nt certificate buy a new category 5 35K pt/nt stay? He had no idea.


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## dioxide45

Steve A said:


> A few years ago I ran into this problem, and they honored the initial reservation at the lower MR level.  I’m looking to make a reservation in London at a level nine hotel for next May using a seven day travel package, but overall Marriot has done little to earn my trust so I’m hesitant until I get more information.


As long as you make the reservation now and attach the certificate, they will honor it. How they handle the existing certificates after 8/1 is the question.


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## kds4

WJS said:


> “We listened to the travel aspirations of our members and set our sights on unlocking the full (corporate revenue) potential of our loyalty programs,” said David Flueck, Senior Vice President of Global Loyalty, Marriott International."


----------



## Jwerking

Kudos to Marriott for at least publishing the new program points a month prior to the Aug 1 implementation date.

Stupid of hubby and I to chipmunk all our MR points for yrs - so we now have a total of 1 million points between our two accts and are now faced with booking several travel packages and probably booking some hotels before Aug 1 - the MR phone lines are really going to be buzzing - so better sooner than later.  Luckily we are retired - so makes planning a bit easier.  But we already travel about 6 months per year, so will have to add another vacation to burn these points maybe in May 2019.  Always wanted to go to Russia - hmm, maybe with a stopover in Iceland - these are on my bucket list!  But only Starwood properties in Iceland and onl

I have read the entire thread carefully and agree that <<As long as you make the reservation now and attach the certificate, they will honor it. How they handle the existing certificates after 8/1 is the question.>>  But have not booked a Travel Package for at least 10 yrs - so some stupid questions. 

1.  So can anyone speculate if we will be able to use the 5 or 7 night hotel certificates after 8/1 to book Starwood hotels?  It is only logical that the answer would be yes, but the question is how they will convert the old MR hotel categories to the new hotel categories which include the newly added Starwood properties.

2.  Can I only book the travel packages by telephoning the MR dept - not able to book online??  How about the 5 day travel packages for Marriott TS owners - can the Travel Package be booked at Marriott Vacation Club desk?

3.  Can MR points still be transferred between spouses?  Is the transfer instantaneous or it takes a few days to post to the other account?


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## Jerrygomi

Fasttr said:


> They have historically allowed you to move up or down in categories via taking or refunding the point difference that the package would have cost if you had purchased it in the first place.
> 
> We can only assume they will continue to allow this in the future.




See: *Marriott Won’t Automatically Refund Points After August Category Changes* https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2018/06/28/marriott-points-refund-august/


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## klpca

I have read through the whole thread and hopefully haven't missed the answer to my question. Can anyone help?

I have a 5 night 1-5 package in my account. I purchased it when we still owned MVC but currently are not owners. I used the miles and transferred those to Southwest to get the companion fare last year. I extended the cert in January by calling in. I was chided for having the certificate in my account as the MVC unit was listed under my husband's name (even though it was titled in our living trust). The CSR gave me a surprising amount of grief about this before finally admitting that it was water under the bridge, but assured me that it could not be extended again, ever. I doubt that, but the thought is rolling around in my head.

We need to stay in Chicago for a wedding in mid-Oct. There are rooms available for our dates at our preferred property (Residence Inn Downtown/Loop). It is currently a category 7 property, 35k per night - but is on the list to decrease in points to 25k/nt and become a Category 2 whatever that means. I just got off of the phone with a CSR who had no idea if I could upgrade the cert (I assured her that I could for 35k/step) but she had to escalate to the "elite department" for an answer and said they would email the answer. I also asked her how my category 1-5 cert would work with the new categories but she had no clue whatsoever.

1. Other than the Chicago trip there is no way that we can use this cert before January 2019 (current expiration). Thoughts on being able to extend at that time by upgrading the category? Would this even be affected by the merger?
2. Any idea about what a 1-5 category will be able to book in the new system? Is there a chart anywhere that I could use?

I only have about 95k points in my account - so I either need to upgrade (70k) or use points to book (70k or 50k pre/post 8/1/18). 

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions.


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## dansimms

I have a 5 night stay at a JW in Costa Rica in January that appears to have dropped by 5000 Rewards Points per night.  I will have to see if there is a peak surcharge or if I in fact will be in a position to cancel and rebook to recover the total of 20,000 Rewards Points. At first glance, it seems that many in the new category 5 have dropped in points required, while the more extravagant locations seem to have an increase versus the current requirement.


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## winger

Steve A said:


> Marriott is not your friend.


Greedy corporation is rarely your friend


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## dsmrp

Steve A said:


> A few years ago I ran into this problem, and they honored the initial reservation at the lower MR level.  I’m looking to make a reservation in London at a level nine hotel for next May using a seven day travel package, but overall Marriot has done little to earn my trust so I’m hesitant until I get more information.



I had a similar problem this spring at a London hotel.  It had been a cat 8, and I reserved and had my certificate applied before the change to cat 9.  Even got an email saying they had applied the certificate to the reservation.
Then 2 days before we were to travel to London from Ireland, we got an email saying the certificate no longer applied because it  was for a lower category level than the hotel.  I had to call back to Marriott in the states to get it fixed.  Marriott CS rep said the certificate hadn't been applied correctly   But if it hadn't, why would I have gotten the confirmation email?   The CS rep didn't argue tho' and squared it away with the hotel.  I was expecting a problem when we got to the hotel but fortunately did not.

Sounds like some batch program runs regularly before check-in, comparing certificate categories to current hotel category levels.  I think there's a flaw in Marriott's program logic.  And I'm not hopeful they will catch all the use cases scenarios when they revise the categories in August.  So I recommend to those who are using their certificates after August 1, to double-check with Marriott rewards on assignment of your certificate to reservation before you leave home.


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## mjm1

Jerrygomi said:


> See: *Marriott Won’t Automatically Refund Points After August Category Changes* https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2018/06/28/marriott-points-refund-august/



Thanks for posting. I just booked a 5 night stay for next May in Sydney the other day. It is scheduled to change from Cat. 8 to Cat. 5. The agent suggested I make the reservation on hold and then call in after the change to attach the certicate. However, have them change my certificate to Cat. 5 first and refund the point difference. Hopefully it works.

Best regards.

Mike


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## klpca

mjm1 said:


> Thanks for posting. I just booked a 5 night stay for next May in Sydney the other day. It is scheduled to change from Cat. 8 to Cat. 5. The agent suggested I make the reservation on hold and then call in after the change to attach the certicate. However, have them change my certificate to Cat. 5 first and refund the point difference. Hopefully it works.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


The rep that I spoke to last night indicated that she doubted that my 1-5 cert would be able to be used at the property in Chicago (Residence Inn Downtown/Loop) that was going from a category 7 to a category 2 (which seems ridiculous). When pressed she could offer no more information, so maybe she was just guessing? I wish that we knew for sure so that we could plan!


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## mjm1

I agree that it would be nice to know before Aug. 1. I figure if we get a refund that is a bonus. Otherwise, we know we like the resort, since we’ve stayed there before at a Cat. 8 level. So we would want to stay there either way. Time will tell.

Best regards.

Mike


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## TimGolobic

Does anyone have a new values for just airline exchanges without the hotel package? Even the guy on the phone at Marriott didn't know about the Air+Hotel changes that started this thread. Yes, I completely agree that the air+hotel is a better exchange, but just interested to see if the air only gets better or worse after August 1.

Current:
7-night Hotel+Air with Cat 1-5 hotel
270,000 Rewards points for 132,000 United miles
(2.05 Rewards per United mile)

August 1:
7-night Hotel+Air with Cat 1-4 hotel (they put Cat 5 in a higher tier)
330,000 Rewards points for 112,000 United miles (more points, fewer miles)
(2.95 Rewards per United mile) - basically a 50% jump

Current Air only
112 Rewards points for 50,000 United miles
(2.24 Rewards per United mile)

August 1 Air only:
seeking info


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## Carlsbadguy

I am also wondering if you book a travel package now and do not book the hotel yet if you can use the hotel portion to book at a later date, after August 1.  Book the travel package at the current Cat 7 rate and use it next year at a new Cat 7 hotel.


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## JohnB

In comparing and evaluating incentives and presentation offers, I have usually valued a Marriott Reward point as worth about a penny a point when comparing a reward point offer to offers of vacation club points or AmEx gift cards or even room rates. The new hotel point system has me rethinking that ratio. While I know a number of locations went down in points, the ones my wife and I love--e.g., central London or Harbor Beach, are taking giant leaps upward. For us, looks like value of a point has dropped 25-35% and 10,000 points once worth $100 is now worth $65 to $75.


----------



## Steve Fatula

One oft quoted source is here:

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/monthly-valuations/

He values them at .9 cents each, about the same as you value them. It remains to be seen how they are valued after August and after all the new rules become more clear. As you know, there are many ways to use points, some less valuable and some more valuable. This means it will be quite possible they would be worth 35% less to you, but worth 35% more to someone else depending on their usage of the points. Some squeeze more value out of points via travel packages at present. U just spend a couple hundred thousand on a 5 night cat5 hotel cert, and, 135,000 Unit miles which will pay flights for DW and I trip to Thailand next year. That's a few grand by itself, just for the flights. Say $2,500. Now add 5 nights at a CAT5 hotel to that. The total would be over 3 grand, and therefore the value well exceeds 1 cent per point. 

For this reason, they are hard to value except on some sort of average.


----------



## Steve A

Bupkis


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## dioxide45

Carlsbadguy said:


> I am also wondering if you book a travel package now and do not book the hotel yet if you can use the hotel portion to book at a later date, after August 1.  Book the travel package at the current Cat 7 rate and use it next year at a new Cat 7 hotel.


It doesn't matter when you convert to the travel package. In order to take advantage of the current hotel categories, you must book the hotel now and attach the certificate. If you get the travel package now and don't reserve the hotel until after 8/1, you are tied to the categories at that time.


----------



## hangloose

dioxide45 said:


> It doesn't matter when you convert to the travel package. In order to take advantage of the current hotel categories, you must book the hotel now and attach the certificate. If you get the travel package now and don't reserve the hotel until after 8/1, you are tied to the categories at that time.



How far in advance does Marriott allow booking via MR Pts?


----------



## dioxide45

hangloose said:


> How far in advance does Marriott allow booking via MR Pts?


Most properties release inventory about 11 months out.


----------



## VacationForever

Has anyone asked Marriott if they can cancel the hotel portion of the travel package and get a few points back to the account?  We need the miles and recently did a Cat 1-5 5-night travel package.  The only stay we can use a 35K per night 5-night stay is in April 2020.  I did the Cat 1-5 because I am willing to forgo the hotel portion if push comes to shove, but it would be nice if we get some sort of refund.


----------



## SeaDoc

dioxide45 said:


> It doesn't matter when you convert to the travel package. In order to take advantage of the current hotel categories, you must book the hotel now and attach the certificate. If you get the travel package now and don't reserve the hotel until after 8/1, you are tied to the categories at that time.



If you get category 8 now, you will be assured of getting the highest level, which is 8 next year.  Just confirmed that with Marriott Rewards line.  I went ahead and did several category 8 5 night stays with 50K miles each to use up my rewards balance.  We'll be living it up in 2019!!!


----------



## mjm1

VacationForever said:


> Has anyone asked Marriott if they can cancel the hotel portion of the travel package and get a few points back to the account?  We need the miles and recently did a Cat 1-5 5-night travel package.  The only stay we can use a 35K per night 5-night stay is in April 2020.  I did the Cat 1-5 because I am willing to forgo the hotel portion if push comes to shove, but it would be nice if we get some sort of refund.



You can extend your hotel certificate by another year. Just call them as the current expiration date approaches and ask them to extend it. Then you won’t lose the points and you will achieve the highest value.

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## dioxide45

VacationForever said:


> Has anyone asked Marriott if they can cancel the hotel portion of the travel package and get a few points back to the account?  We need the miles and recently did a Cat 1-5 5-night travel package.  The only stay we can use a 35K per night 5-night stay is in April 2020.  I did the Cat 1-5 because I am willing to forgo the hotel portion if push comes to shove, but it would be nice if we get some sort of refund.


You may not get much if anything back. They will convert your original transaction to a straight up points to miles conversion that has a very poor conversion rate. Perhaps 3:1.


----------



## VacationForever

mjm1 said:


> You can extend your hotel certificate by another year. Just call them as the current expiration date approaches and ask them to extend it. Then you won’t lose the points and you will achieve the highest value.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


I think the question remains how will the extension be, is it better for me to move the current certificate to the current 35K level or will everything be re-normalized after August.


----------



## Carlsbadguy

What is the number you call for one of the 5 night packages


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## dioxide45

Carlsbadguy said:


> What is the number you call for one of the 5 night packages


Same number as the seven night packages. It is on the PDF that is linked in the first post in this thread.


----------



## Safti

ljmiii said:


> A question for anyone who has upgraded a 5 night hotel certificate. If you upgraded a cat 5 (25K/nt) to a cat 7 (35K/nt) did it cost 50,000 MRs?  Or 40,000 MRs (because of 5th night 'free')? Or some other number? I'm looking to get a 5 night stay in Aug 2019 in what will be a 60K/nt cat 7 hotel and running the numbers. If the charge will be 5 * pt/nt difference then cat 7 seems to be the sweet spot. If an old cat 7 certificate buys a new cat 7 stay then it is obviously so.
> 
> cat 5 - 235K + (60K-25K/nt = 35K * 5 =) 175K = 410K
> cat 6 - 250K + (60K-30K/nt = 30K * 5 =) 150K = 400K
> cat 7 - 270K + (60K-35K/nt = 25K * 5 =) 125K = 395K
> cat 8 - 300K + (60K-35K/nt = 20K * 5 =) 100K = 400K
> cat 9 - 345K + (60K-45K/nt = 15K * 5 =)  75K = 420K


I paid 35K MR points to upgrade from a category 5 to a category 7.


----------



## Steve Fatula

dioxide45 said:


> Same number as the seven night packages. It is on the PDF that is linked in the first post in this thread.



I called the MVCI Presidential line (not MR) and call got answered immediately, had 5 night package arranged < 5 minutes total.


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## dansimms

Curious to see what our various MVCI Villas are categorized as ?  Are they in this chart ?  I couldn’t find them. I know they are separate companies, but we will still be affected


----------



## Steve Fatula

dansimms said:


> Curious to see what our various MVCI Villas are categorized as ?  Are they in this chart ?  I couldn’t find them. I know they are separate companies, but we will still be affected



They are all on this page:

https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change


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## Superchief

dansimms said:


> Curious to see what our various MVCI Villas are categorized as ?  Are they in this chart ?  I couldn’t find them. I know they are separate companies, but we will still be affected


Most MVC properties went up 10-20k per night. Those that didn't go up were primarily resorts with lockoff, so I expect the point requirements are for the studio. If you review the chart, there is a significant increase for all of the hotels/resorts in prime vacation destinations. Some doubled in point requirements.


----------



## Perrygirl

I may be posting this on the wrong thread I’m sorry. But I am very unhappy about the change. I would like to help in some way. If Marriott adapted to Westin type of points we would be fine but on one and few nights stay Marriott required twice to 3 times the points. That’s why I use my SPG AMEX and almost never my Chase Marriott card. It takes me 3 months with SPGs current system for a lovely Westin in New Orleans for example yet 6 months of spending to get just an ok Marriott hotel. This isn’t good for all of us. How can we get Marriott to adapt to SPG ways.


----------



## Steve A

Got my 7 night level 9 and 120,000 AA ff miles. Will make my reservations for London for next May before the end of the month. 

I’m guessing the SPG AMEX will not be useful beginning in August. If so, I’ll drop it and the Marriott Chase card. What are other folks doing?


----------



## Jwerking

Steve Fatula said:


> I called the MVCI Presidential line (not MR) and call got answered immediately, had 5 night package arranged < 5 minutes total.



Can we also call MVCI to arrange the 7 night travel packages ???

Will MVCI do the hotel reservations and attach the hotel certificates?? Sure would be LESS waiting on the phone lines.


----------



## Jwerking

Superchief said:


> Most MVC properties went up 10-20k per night. Those that didn't go up were primarily resorts with lockoff, so I expect the point requirements are for the studio. If you review the chart, there is a significant increase for all of the hotels/resorts in prime vacation destinations. Some doubled in point requirements.



Just out of curiosity, I did a search of availability of MCVI properties and generally nothing showed up for a 7 day search at several key properties.  So this is likely not going to be a viable option.  As I recall, this is also true at most of Marriott's Executive Apts - no availabilty for 7 night stays even at the 11 mo window.  It is like the timeshare exchange lottery except there is no ongoing search.


----------



## WBP

Perrygirl said:


> I may be posting this on the wrong thread I’m sorry. But I am very unhappy about the change. I would like to help in some way. If Marriott adapted to Westin type of points we would be fine but on one and few nights stay Marriott required twice to 3 times the points. That’s why I use my SPG AMEX and almost never my Chase Marriott card. It takes me 3 months with SPGs current system for a lovely Westin in New Orleans for example yet 6 months of spending to get just an ok Marriott hotel. This isn’t good for all of us. How can we get Marriott to adapt to SPG ways.



I render your desire to get Marriott Rewards to adopt SPG ways, hopeless, for the following reasons:

David Flueck, the Senior Vice President of Global Loyalty (inclusive of Marriott Rewards) is a Starwood Guy, who is rumored to have (previously) been one of the architects of the once wonderful Starwood Preferred Guest program. 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-flueck-107a249

David Flueck is identified as one of the architects of Marriott's new brand loyalty program.

If you haven't watched this, I would encourage you to spend 45 minutes watching this:





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2095479260466710


----------



## Steve Fatula

Jwerking said:


> Can we also call MVCI to arrange the 7 night travel packages ???
> 
> Will MVCI do the hotel reservations and attach the hotel certificates?? Sure would be LESS waiting on the phone lines.



No idea, call and try, would be worth it if they can. I figured since the 5 day packages are MVCI only, surely they might handle them and they did. Assuming you have the VIP line, which requires executive ownership level in MVCI and above. If they can at least arrange the certificate and airline miles, that's half the battle from reading some other posts.


----------



## Steve A

Booked London for next May for 8 nights using 7 night cert and points. Had enough ff points to fly business over and regular cabin on the way back. Staying at the Park Lane, our favorite.


----------



## BocaBoy

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think Marriott has said or confirmed how they will map existing certificates that people have in their accounts. So it is anybody's guess.


I don't have a source document to refer you to, but Marriott did say early on (don't recall where, but probably in one of the interviews or Q&A's) that they would map based on points requirements, so I assume that is still the case.  And it does make sense, in part because they are merging Starwood and Marriott hotels into the same system and in part because it preserves most closely the value of the certificate.  It may be that what I saw was for the one-time certificates (from promotions and credit cards), but the principle would seem to be the same.


----------



## dioxide45

Superchief said:


> Most MVC properties went up 10-20k per night. Those that didn't go up were primarily resorts with lockoff, so I expect the point requirements are for the studio. If you review the chart, there is a significant increase for all of the hotels/resorts in prime vacation destinations. Some doubled in point requirements.


I wonder if the old points numbers are based on IF the properties only had hotel/studio units. Where perhaps the new points numbers are based on the actual smallest unit. Take Cypress Harbour for example, it was 35,000 previously and now 50,000. Grande Vista was 35,000 and is still 35,000. I take that to think that they were basing the old Cypress Harbour points on a hotel size room, but you would have had to add two upgrade certs at 5,000 each to go up to the 2BR units that they have. Now the requirement is more in line with with a Grande Vista 2BR unit when you upgrade with points. Do we know if upgrades are still 5,000 or are they now 7,500 points?


----------



## kds4

dioxide45 said:


> I wonder if the old points numbers are based on IF the properties only had hotel/studio units. Where perhaps the new points numbers are based on the actual smallest unit. Take Cypress Harbour for example, it was 35,000 previously and now 50,000. Grande Vista was 35,000 and is still 35,000. I take that to think that they were basing the old Cypress Harbour points on a hotel size room, but you would have had to add two upgrade certs at 5,000 each to go up to the 2BR units that they have. Now the requirement is more in line with with a Grande Vista 2BR unit when you upgrade with points. Do we know if upgrades are still 5,000 or are they now 7,500 points?



If they are 7,500, that would seem to map. 35k for an MGV Studio, 42,500 for an MGV 1BR, and 50k for an MGV 2BR versus 50k for a Cypress Harbour 2BR (being the only unit type they have). That would make more 'sense', than keeping it at 5k per upgrade step (which would create a 5k point 'gap' between a 2BR at MGV (45k) versus Cypress Harbour (50k).


----------



## NboroGirl

Things I learned while booking my (first ever) travel package, which was a 5-night package:

1) Do NOT call the number (800-321-7396) posted on the marriot.com/rewards website to redeem your points for a 5-night package.  Even though it says to redeem points for one of the (7-day) travel packages shown, that doesn't seem to work.  The only option that was even CLOSE to that was booking a hotel stay with points.  When I told that person what I wanted, she gave me "the correct" phone number (800-847-8262) to call. Don't call that one either. When I called it, I got someone with Vistana who had no clue what I was trying to do, so I gave up and called MVC's Owner Services number (*800-845-4226*) and that's who I should have called in the first place.



Fasttr said:


> They have historically allowed you to move up or down in categories via taking or refunding the point difference that the package would have cost if you had purchased it in the first place.
> 
> We can only assume they will continue to allow this in the future.



1) I was told no, you cannot use points to upgrade your certificate.  If you buy a travel package for a category 6 hotel, you can not use points or dollars to stay at a higher category hotel with your hotel certificates. You can only use points to upgrade to a better room.  You can use the certificates to stay at a lower category room (no refunding of points).  When I questioned her about this further, she said she had never heard of that (using more points or refunding points) and stated "That's Marriot Rewards, so you'd need to check with them."

3) The hotel certificates do not need to be used in conjunction with the miles (which I already knew) but they have to be used all at once. No using a night here and a couple of nights somewhere else.

Anything else? Just that the certificates expire one year from when you order them.  Already knew that, too.  I was told my United miles should be in my account in about 3 days.


----------



## VacationForever

NboroGirl said:


> Things I learned while booking my (first ever) travel package, which was a 5-night package:
> 
> 1) I was told no, you cannot use points to upgrade your certificate.  If you buy a travel package for a category 6 hotel, you can not use points or dollars to stay at a higher category hotel with your hotel certificates. You can only use points to upgrade to a better room.  You can use the certificates to stay at a lower category room (no refunding of points).  When I questioned her about this further, she said she had never heard of that (using more points or refunding points) and stated "That's Marriot Rewards, so you'd need to check with them."
> 
> Anything else? Just that the certificates expire one year from when you order them.  Already knew that, too.


I can tell you that up to this point, you CAN alter the category of the 5-night or 7-night hotel awards by having the points be adjusted.  Marriott Rewards desk has done that for me half a dozen times or so.  They also have been extending the expiration dates.  I do not know post August 2018 whether they will change their practice.


----------



## Steve Fatula

VacationForever said:


> I can tell you that up to this point, you CAN alter the category of the 5-night or 7-night hotel awards by having the points be adjusted.  Marriott Rewards desk has done that for me half a dozen times or so.  They also have been extending the expiration dates.  I do not know post August 2018 whether they will change their practice.



But she called MVCI as I had suggested above. Most likely, MVCI is not familiar with the ins and outs of those types of details. They can arrange them and very easily and quickly, probably that's it. For buying them only, it's way faster than all the reports of slow MR calls!


----------



## Superchief

I originally redeemed a 5 night travel package at the lowest category level (1-5) two years ago. I upgraded to Cat 9 and extended the exp date last October when I thought that my Ocean Pointe exchange was going to be cancelled (planned to use it at Singer Island Marriott Resort). I recall that the amount of points required for the upgrade were a lot more than I thought they would be because the way they allocate the hotel portion points in a travel package. I ended up not needing the Cat 9, so I called MR Rewards dept today to downgrade to a Cat 7. Although my call was initially sent (after 25 minute hold) to reservations, I was transferred to MR Rewards (after another 15 minute hold). Fortunately, the agent was very knowledgeable and helpful and was able to process the transaction and attach the certificate to my reservation.

I was surprised to receive 60K points for the downgrade because I was expecting 40k (10k per night for 4 nights difference). The Marriott 'book value' of my cat 9 5-night Cert. was 105k points, and my cat 7 is now 45k points. 

I would be reluctant to expect Marriott to return many points for any unused hotel portions of these travel packages due to the low 'book value' assigned to them.


----------



## Jerrygomi

For what it's worth, here's a long article by the PointsGuy on Marriott packages:https://thepointsguy.com/guide/analyzing-terrible-new-marriott-hotel-air-packages/


----------



## dioxide45

Superchief said:


> I originally redeemed a 5 night travel package at the lowest category level (1-5) two years ago. I upgraded to Cat 9 and extended the exp date last October when I thought that my Ocean Pointe exchange was going to be cancelled (planned to use it at Singer Island Marriott Resort). I recall that the amount of points required for the upgrade were a lot more than I thought they would be because the way they allocate the hotel portion points in a travel package. I ended up not needing the Cat 9, so I called MR Rewards dept today to downgrade to a Cat 7. Although my call was initially sent (after 25 minute hold) to reservations, I was transferred to MR Rewards (after another 15 minute hold). Fortunately, the agent was very knowledgeable and helpful and was able to process the transaction and attach the certificate to my reservation.
> 
> I was surprised to receive 60K points for the downgrade because I was expecting 40k (10k per night for 4 nights difference). The Marriott 'book value' of my cat 9 5-night Cert. was 105k points, and my cat 7 is now 45k points.
> 
> I would be reluctant to expect Marriott to return many points for any unused hotel portions of these travel packages due to the low 'book value' assigned to them.


The additional points to upgrade or downgrade isn't based on 5x (or even 4) the number of points difference on a regular points per night redemption. It is based on the cost difference between the the package you are moving from and then to.


----------



## klpca

Superchief said:


> I originally redeemed a 5 night travel package at the lowest category level (1-5) two years ago. I upgraded to Cat 9 and extended the exp date last October when I thought that my Ocean Pointe exchange was going to be cancelled (planned to use it at Singer Island Marriott Resort). I recall that the amount of points required for the upgrade were a lot more than I thought they would be because the way they allocate the hotel portion points in a travel package. I ended up not needing the Cat 9, so I called MR Rewards dept today to downgrade to a Cat 7. Although my call was initially sent (after 25 minute hold) to reservations, I was transferred to MR Rewards (after another 15 minute hold). Fortunately, the agent was very knowledgeable and helpful and was able to process the transaction and attach the certificate to my reservation.
> 
> I was surprised to receive 60K points for the downgrade because I was expecting 40k (10k per night for 4 nights difference). The Marriott 'book value' of my cat 9 5-night Cert. was 105k points, and my cat 7 is now 45k points.
> 
> I would be reluctant to expect Marriott to return many points for any unused hotel portions of these travel packages due to the low 'book value' assigned to them.


Did your certificate get extended again or did it retain the original expiration date?


----------



## dioxide45

klpca said:


> Did your certificate get extended again or did it retain the original expiration date?


When you upgrade or extend a certificate, they really cancel the original and reissue a new one. The new certificate will be valid for a year from that date.


----------



## Superchief

klpca said:


> Did your certificate get extended again or did it retain the original expiration date?


I had extended it a few weeks ago, so I didn't need to extend again because my reservation is within the time frame needed.


----------



## icydog

Clear this up for me please. I thought we could not use our travel packages at a Vacation Club property?


----------



## dioxide45

icydog said:


> Clear this up for me please. I thought we could not use our travel packages at a Vacation Club property?


The only rule, that is rarely enforced, is that you can't use points you get from converting your timeshare week to point to book back in to a MVC timeshare property.


----------



## VacationForever

icydog said:


> Clear this up for me please. I thought we could not use our travel packages at a Vacation Club property?


If there is availability, you may.  However, there is a room size upgrade surcharge.  I believe it is 5K per room size per night.  So if you book 5 nights in a 1BR, you will need to "pay" another 25K in points to upgrade the 5-night certificate. 10K per night to go from the studio to a 2BR.  I do not know if the waive the 5th free night upgrade.


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## jeff76543

The upgrade needs to be "paid" for all 5 nights - it is not waived for the fifth night.


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## Jwerking

Can point be used to upgrade to an Executive Room at the full service Marriott and/or Renaissance with Lounge Access? Just saw this as a Rewards option for the Marriott Brussels while searching availability.  So appears it is 5K points upgrade per night.  Is this always an option that can be requested at check in?  Or each hotel establishes its own policy about upgrades?

So the Marriott Lounges in Europe offer free alcoholic drinks or only for a fee?


----------



## icydog

Jwerking said:


> Can point be used to upgrade to an Executive Room at the full service Marriott and/or Renaissance with Lounge Access? Just saw this as a Rewards option for the Marriott Brussels while searching availability.  So appears it is 5K points upgrade per night.  Is this always an option that can be requested at check in?  Or each hotel establishes its own policy about upgrades?
> 
> So the Marriott Lounges in Europe offer free alcoholic drinks or only for a fee?



If you have Gold or Platinum Elite Status you can enter the club for free. Even 5K points per night would be worth it since 5K points is only $50. This works if you are bringing along your family.


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## Eli Mairs

I’ve stayed at Marriott’s County Hall in London and the Marriott in Copenhagen. Their lounges offer free alcoholic drinks.


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## Steve Fatula

Eli Mairs said:


> I’ve stayed at Marriott’s County Hall in London and the Marriott in Copenhagen. Their lounges offer free alcoholic drinks.



As did the one in Madrid, and, the one in Melbourne Australia.


----------



## bazzap

Steve Fatula said:


> As did the one in Madrid, and, the one in Melbourne Australia.


Don’t they all outside of the US?
In Europe and Asia, all the ones we have stayed at do anyway.


----------



## kds4

VacationForever said:


> If there is availability, you may.  However, there is a room size upgrade surcharge.  I believe it is 5K per room size per night.  So if you book 5 nights in a 1BR, you will need to "pay" another 25K in points to upgrade the 5-night certificate. 10K per night to go from the studio to a 2BR.  I do not know if the waive the 5th free night upgrade.



I'm wondering how the 'upgrade' for Vacation Club properties will work after 8/1/18. With several of the MVCI properties changing category, there is no reason to require an upgrade for an MVCI property that is say 2BR only (like Ocean Watch). It should just be assigned to a higher category point value consistent with the accommodation provided, versus a property with multiple room sizes like Grande Vista.


----------



## dioxide45

kds4 said:


> I'm wondering how the 'upgrade' for Vacation Club properties will work after 8/1/18. With several of the MVCI properties changing category, there is no reason to require an upgrade for an MVCI property that is say 2BR only (like Ocean Watch). It should just be assigned to a higher category point value consistent with the accommodation provided, versus a property with multiple room sizes like Grande Vista.


Correct. I think the new point values assigned take in to consideration the smallest unit size at a property. I don't think the old point values did that.


----------



## dioxide45

bazzap said:


> Don’t they all outside of the US?
> In Europe and Asia, all the ones we have stayed at do anyway.


I think the ones in the US do too. At least the one at Columbus airport does. Limited to only beer and wine though.


----------



## kds4

dioxide45 said:


> Correct. I think the new point values assigned take in to consideration the smallest unit size at a property. I don't think the old point values did that.



I like the idea of using a 5 night stay certificate for an MVCI property over a Friday and Saturday night (when stays cost the most DP) and then adding to the reservation using DP points for cheaper nights before/after that are Sunday through Thursday.


----------



## icydog

kds4 said:


> I like the idea of using a 5 night stay certificate for an MVCI property over a Friday and Saturday night (when stays cost the most DP) and then adding to the reservation using DP points for cheaper nights before/after that are Sunday through Thursday.


This makes a lot of sense to me too. That way you get the best of both point systems. I have two cat 7 certs. Can I use them at MVCI locations in the future since there won't be a cat 8 offered.


----------



## kds4

icydog said:


> This makes a lot of sense to me too. That way you get the best of both point systems. I have two cat 7 certs. Can I use them at MVCI locations in the future since there won't be a cat 8 offered.



You can use these certs for MVCI properties. After 8/1/18, MVCI properties will range from Category 4 through Category 7. Only 9 properties will be left as Category 7. The majority, about 35 properties, will be Category 6. Whether you should reserve now or later depends on where you are trying to go and whether your desired property will be going up or down in category (and points required). If it is going up, book now. If it will be going down, I would wait until after 8/1/18.

Case in point - Marriott Surfer's Paradise in Australia. It is currently a Category 8 property. After 8/1/18, it will drop to Category 5.


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## icydog

Will you please post the post 8/1/18 categories? I know it is in here somewhere but going through 6 pages of replies would take forever.  Thanks so much, Marylyn


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## kds4

icydog said:


> Will you please post the post 8/1/18 categories? I know it is in here somewhere but going through 6 pages of replies would take forever.  Thanks so much, Marylyn



I couldn't do it neatly, but here goes.

*Property Name/Current MRP Per Night/Post 8-1-18 MRP/Difference/Post 8-1-18 Category*
Marriott Vacation Club Pulse at Custom House, Boston Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 45,000 60,000 15,000 7
Marriott's Crystal Shores Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 45,000 60,000 15,000 7
Marriott's Frenchman's Cove Marriott Vacation Club Intl Virgin Islands (US) 45,000 60,000 15,000 7
Marriott's Kauai Lagoons - Kalanipu'u Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000 20,000 7
Marriott's Newport Coast Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000 20,000 7
Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000 20,000 7
Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000 20,000 7
MVW Streamside Douglas at Vail Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 45,000 60,000 15,000 7
MVW Streamside Evergreen at Vail Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 45,000 60,000 15,000 7
Grand Residences by Marriott, Lake Tahoe Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Grand Residences by Marriott, Tahoe - 1 to 3 bedrooms & Pent. Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott Vacation Club Pulse at The Mayflower, Washington, D.C. Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott Vacation Club Pulse, San Diego Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 15,000 6
Marriott Vacation Club Pulse, South Beach Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Aruba Ocean Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl Aruba 45,000 50,000 5,000 6
Marriott's Aruba Surf Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl Aruba 45,000 50,000 5,000 6
Marriott's Barony Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's BeachPlace Towers Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Club Son Antem Marriott Vacation Club Intl Spain 30,000 50,000 20,000 6
Marriott's Cypress Harbour Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 15,000 6
Marriott's Fairway Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 15,000 6
Marriott's Grande Ocean Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Harbour Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Harbour Point and Sunset Pointe at Shelter Cove Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Heritage Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Imperial Palms Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 15,000 6
Marriott's Kaua'i Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Marbella Beach Resort Marriott Vacation Club Intl Spain 35,000 50,000 15,000 6
Marriott's Maui Ocean Club - Lahaina & Napili Towers Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Maui Ocean Club - Molokai, Maui & Lanai Towers Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Monarch at Sea Pines Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Mountain Valley Lodge at Breckenridge Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's MountainSide Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 45,000 50,000 5,000 6
Marriott's Oceana Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's OceanWatch Villas at Grande Dunes Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Phuket Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl Thailand 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Royal Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 15,000 6
Marriott's Sabal Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 15,000 6
Marriott's St. Kitts Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl Saint Kitts and Nevis 35,000 50,000 15,000 6
Marriott's Summit Watch Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 45,000 50,000 5,000 6
Marriott's SurfWatch Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
Marriott's Timber Lodge Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 50,000 10,000 6
MVW Streamside Birch at Vail Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 45,000 50,000 5,000 6
Marriott Vacation Club at Surfers Paradise Marriott Vacation Club Intl Australia 40,000 35,000 -5,000 5
Marriott Vacation Club Pulse, New York City Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 35,000 -5,000 5
Marriott's Canyon Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 35,000 -5,000 5
Marriott's Desert Springs Villas I Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 35,000 -5,000 5
Marriott's Desert Springs Villas II Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 35,000 -5,000 5
Marriott's Grand Chateau Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 35,000 0 5
Marriott's Grande Vista Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 35,000 0 5
Marriott's Harbour Lake Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 35,000 0 5
Marriott's Lakeshore Reserve Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 35,000 0 5
Marriott's Legends Edge at Bay Point Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 30,000 35,000 5,000 5
Marriott's Mai Khao Beach - Phuket Marriott Vacation Club Intl Thailand 35,000 35,000 0 5
Marriott's Manor Club at Ford's Colony Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 30,000 35,000 5,000 5
Marriott's Ocean Pointe Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 35,000 -5,000 5
Marriott's Playa Andaluza Marriott Vacation Club Intl Spain 35,000 35,000 0 5
Marriott's Shadow Ridge I-The Villages Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 35,000 -5,000 5
Marriott's Shadow Ridge II- The Enclaves Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 35,000 -5,000 5
Marriott's Villas at Doral Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 25,000 35,000 10,000 5
Marriott's Bali Nusa Dua Gardens Marriott Vacation Club Intl Indonesia 30,000 25,000 -5,000 4
Marriott's Village d'lle-de-France Marriott Vacation Club Intl France 25,000 25,000 0 4
Marriott's Willow Ridge Lodge Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 30,000 25,000 -5,000 4


----------



## icydog

Thanks so much. I am going to copy this list and make a PDF file for my records.


----------



## dioxide45

icydog said:


> Will you please post the post 8/1/18 categories? I know it is in here somewhere but going through 6 pages of replies would take forever.  Thanks so much, Marylyn


A link to the entire list is in post #1 and it is searchable.


----------



## BocaBoy

dioxide45 said:


> The only rule, that is rarely enforced, is that you can't use points you get from converting your timeshare week to point to book back in to a MVC timeshare property.


It is never enforced because Marriott does not track the source of your MR points over time, so they do not know the source of the points you use.  I have been told that several times when I have asked in past years.


----------



## BocaBoy

dioxide45 said:


> Correct. I think the new point values assigned take in to consideration the smallest unit size at a property. I don't think the old point values did that.


The old ones were all based on studios, even in those timeshare properti4s with no studios.  They then added the upgrade fees as appropriate.


----------



## kds4

BocaBoy said:


> The old ones were all based on studios, even in those timeshare properti4s with no studios.  They then added the upgrade fees as appropriate.



Yup. That's what I am hoping has been fixed. I was never a fan of the bait and switch where the resorts like Imperial Palms are advertised as x MRPs per night only to find out when you want to go there 'Well, it's actually going to be an extra 15k MRPs per night" since it only has 3BR units and the advertised point amount was for a Studio (which is an accommodation the property didn't even have ... Ughh!)


----------



## VacationForever

When I compared the charts... Grande Vista is 35K, Sheraton Vistana Resort is 50K.  Grande Vista's 35K is a studio, so up it to 40K for 1BR, assuming 1 size upgrade is still held at 5K per night.  That point requirement is still lower than Sheraton Vistana Resort's 1BR.  Even though I have not been to Grande Vista, I would think that they are at least comparable.


----------



## kds4

VacationForever said:


> When I compared the charts... Grande Vista is 35K, Sheraton Vistana Resort is 50K.  Grande Vista's 35K is a studio, so up it to 40K for 1BR, assuming 1 size upgrade is still held at 5K per night.  That point requirement is still lower than Sheraton Vistana Resort's 1BR.  Even though I have not been to Grande Vista, I would think that they are at least comparable.



It is interesting that MGV/MGR will remain a Category 5 while Vistana remains a Category 6. I have to wonder if Starwood's timeshare portfolio not being a part of the purchase/merger with Marriott had anything to do with the Vistana properties remaining unchanged (or would they have been lowered to give parity with Grande Vista)? On the other hand, perhaps Vistana is considered a step above MGV/MGR. I couldn't say, having never been to Vistana.


----------



## dioxide45

VacationForever said:


> When I compared the charts... Grande Vista is 35K, Sheraton Vistana Resort is 50K.  Grande Vista's 35K is a studio, so up it to 40K for 1BR, assuming 1 size upgrade is still held at 5K per night.  That point requirement is still lower than Sheraton Vistana Resort's 1BR.  Even though I have not been to Grande Vista, I would think that they are at least comparable.


For some reason, they placed a slight premium on the Sheraton properties in Orlando by bumping them up a category. I don't really know why.


----------



## jeepie

So, I hope this is on topic. I haven’t read all 148 posts, so please forgive me if I’ve missed something. I called Owner Services today and was told they have no info yet about August changes to 5 night packages. The rep didn’t know anything about the devaluation in 7 night packages.
I have made the decision to hedge against a possible upcoming devaluation, so I bought two packages (in case anyone is curious, one was for a Cat 8 and 132k United miles for 300,000 points, and the other was for a Cat 9 and 120k Alaska miles for 345,000 points). Still keeping some powder dry for possibly scoring an overwater bungalow at the St. Regis Bora Bora next summer. I’m curious about others’ thoughts. Cheers.


----------



## TXTortoise

Thinking the same thing, i.e., two five night, high category certificates, but I may not be able to travel until fall 2019 and spring 2020.  Therefore, I think I have two options:

1. Book something within 12 months, then cancel and rebook for something later...or is that the same as extending a certificate?
2. Hold the certificate until Fall 2019 reservations open and hope I can extend at that time?

Thoughts?


----------



## mdurette

I just noticed Atlantis Coral towers is going to a category 5.    That would be a decent TP to book with a Cat 5 TP.


Actually, I am seeing a lot of good options for what will be future category 5s.    They will cost more points per night to get come Aug.  

So I'm thinking stocking up on whatever category 5 TPs you can get your hands on now would be worth it.


----------



## dioxide45

TXTortoise said:


> Thinking the same thing, i.e., two five night, high category certificates, but I may not be able to travel until fall 2019 and spring 2020.  Therefore, I think I have two options:
> 
> 1. Book something within 12 months, then cancel and rebook for something later...or is that the same as extending a certificate?
> 2. Hold the certificate until Fall 2019 reservations open and hope I can extend at that time?
> 
> Thoughts?


It won't matter if you book now and cancel and rebook later or just book something in the fall for fall 2019. In either case you will be tied to the new hotel categories. They would have to reissue the certificate in either case which would also extend it.


----------



## SMB1

mdurette said:


> I just noticed Atlantis Coral towers is going to a category 5.    That would be a decent TP to book with a Cat 5 TP.
> 
> 
> Actually, I am seeing a lot of good options for what will be future category 5s.    They will cost more points per night to get come Aug.
> 
> So I'm thinking stocking up on whatever category 5 TPs you can get your hands on now would be worth it.



Do we somehow know if we book a TP now it will still be good for that category after August 1?  My guess is if I "buy" a cat 7 package now I will only be able to redeem it for a cat 5 after Aug 1 because Cat 7 now and cat 5 in August require 35,000 points per night.  I've called and asked Marriott reps, Marriott Rewards reps, and last time I was connected to a customer care rep.  None of their answers were the same.  A couple said cat 5 certs would access cat 5 certs.  Others said it will be based on #points per night.  The customer care rep really took the time to understand what I was asking.  I even gave her the specific reservations I was trying to make.  She spent a lot of time trying to find accurate information, but really came up blank.  She could only speculate.  

I ask because if I knew certain category certs would map over to the same category after August 1 I would purchase higher category certs.  If not I will get cat 1-5 certs and access an additional 132,000 united miles.


----------



## hangloose

SMB1 said:


> Do we somehow know if we book a TP now it will still be good for that category after August 1?  My guess is if I "buy" a cat 7 package now I will only be able to redeem it for a cat 5 after Aug 1 because Cat 7 now and cat 5 in August require 35,000 points per night.  I've called and asked Marriott reps, Marriott Rewards reps, and last time I was connected to a customer care rep.  None of their answers were the same.  A couple said cat 5 certs would access cat 5 certs.  Others said it will be based on #points per night.  The customer care rep really took the time to understand what I was asking.  I even gave her the specific reservations I was trying to make.  She spent a lot of time trying to find accurate information, but really came up blank.  She could only speculate.
> 
> I ask because if I knew certain category certs would map over to the same category after August 1 I would purchase higher category certs.  If not I will get cat 1-5 certs and access an additional 132,000 united miles.



I also wish I knew this answer.  Have an existing TP and MR Pts ready to purchase another prior to Aug 1.  I am planning to go after the highest FF mile package with highest hotel category I can afford.  Where possible, I will try to make a reservation using that certificate also.


----------



## VacationForever

I exchanged a 5-night travel cat 1-5 package just for the miles.  I kept the category low so that if the new rule is to have no extension, then worst case is that I sacrifice the nights.


----------



## TXTortoise

I guess the real risk is a change in policy that precludes renewal of a certificate or repricing at reissue in some manner.

While low risk, the new program changes might be enough of a catalyst for Marriott to make such changes.


----------



## hangloose

Took me 1 hr and 11 mins today once the MVC rep transferred me to Marriott Rewards rep to change my Cat8 7 night package to Cat8 5 night.  Yikes.  They finally got it right, but a lot of effort, questions and a supervisor helping.  

If Marriott reclassifies an issued but unused Cat8 hotel certificate, what future category does that map to? Cat6 or Cat7?  Hard to tell.


----------



## dioxide45

hangloose said:


> Took me 1 hr and 11 mins today once the MVC rep transferred me to Marriott Rewards rep to change my Cat8 7 night package to Cat8 5 night.  Yikes.  They finally got it right, but a lot of effort, questions and a supervisor helping.
> 
> If Marriott reclassifies an issued but unused Cat8 hotel certificate, what future category does that map to? Cat6 or Cat7?  Hard to tell.


I suspect they would map it so it could be used for any hotel up to 40,000 points per night. That is between a five and a six.


----------



## jeepie

dioxide45 said:


> They would map it so it could be used for any hotel up to 40,000 points per night.


I have seen speculation about this, but no confirmation from Marriott. Can you point me to where this has been confirmed? TIA.


----------



## dioxide45

jeepie said:


> I have seen speculation about this, but no confirmation from Marriott. Can you point me to where this has been confirmed? TIA.


I edited my post, since it is based on my speculation.


----------



## BocaBoy

TXTortoise said:


> Thinking the same thing, i.e., two five night, high category certificates, but I may not be able to travel until fall 2019 and spring 2020.  Therefore, I think I have two options:
> 
> 1. Book something within 12 months, then cancel and rebook for something later...or is that the same as extending a certificate?
> 2. Hold the certificate until Fall 2019 reservations open and hope I can extend at that time?


Regarding option 1, it will not help you with what you are trying to accomplish.  This is because when you cancel, you  will get back a certificate with the same expiration date.

Option 2 will be viable unless they change the rules (or practice) concerning extensions.


----------



## Mr. Vker

mdurette said:


> I just noticed Atlantis Coral towers is going to a category 5.    That would be a decent TP to book with a Cat 5 TP.
> 
> 
> Actually, I am seeing a lot of good options for what will be future category 5s.    They will cost more points per night to get come Aug.
> 
> So I'm thinking stocking up on whatever category 5 TPs you can get your hands on now would be worth it.



That's not going to work. They will not map to new cat 5's. You will either get a point refund or a new cert valued similarly to a Cat 5 today.


----------



## kds4

mdurette said:


> I just noticed Atlantis Coral towers is going to a category 5.    That would be a decent TP to book with a Cat 5 TP.
> 
> 
> Actually, I am seeing a lot of good options for what will be future category 5s.    They will cost more points per night to get come Aug.
> 
> So I'm thinking stocking up on whatever category 5 TPs you can get your hands on now would be worth it.



'Stocking up on Category 5 TPs' in general is not going to be helpful. Having accommodation certificates sitting in your account unused as of August 1st will more likely just result in frustration later.

The key is getting Category 5 TPs now AND making a reservation at a property that will be going up to a Category 6 or higher on August 1st. Reserving now to stay at properties that will cost more later is the value of getting and using TPs before they are devalued August 1st and you pay more to get the same (or less) than you can get now. I am waiting as close to the end of the month as possible before redeeming mine (so I can stretch my AC reservation dates as far into 2019 as possible, since I need summer).


----------



## Mr. Vker

kds4 said:


> 'Stocking up on Category 5 TPs' in general is not going to be helpful. Having accommodation certificates sitting in your account unused as of August 1st will more likely just result in frustration later.
> 
> The key is getting Category 5 TPs now AND making a reservation at a property that will be going up to a Category 6 or higher on August 1st. Reserving now to stay at properties that will cost more later is the value of getting and using TPs before they are devalued August 1st and you pay more to get the same (or less) than you can get now. I am waiting as close to the end of the month as possible before redeeming mine (so I can stretch my AC reservation dates as far into 2019 as possible, since I need summer).




Bingo.


----------



## VacationForever

The 3 hotels which we have applied our 5-night certificates to, all went up in points requirement post August. It was cat 8 in Singapore, cat 9 in Amsterdam and Hong Kong. I guess we lucked out.  I still have one cat 1-5 with nothing attached.


----------



## StevenTing

I didn't see this anywhere and I hate the way Marriott displays this but here is a Google Sheet where I copied the hotel list so you can more easily filter and sort.  Should be useful for at least 3 weeks.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18FzZIgto3Ms8CrV3caJOpuhbMFIiWtcYldO5Uon31ec/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## ljmiii

kds4 said:


> 'Stocking up on Category 5 TPs' in general is not going to be helpful. Having accommodation certificates sitting in your account unused as of August 1st will more likely just result in frustration later.


Quite true. I certainly intend to have reservations attached to all my 5-night certificates by July 31st...even if they are not where/when I most want to go. If the news after Aug 1st is good then all the better and I'll cancel and rebook.

Also, from our 'What it's worth department', The Points Guy thinks any unattached 'old' 5 and 7 night certs will be cancelled with some meager number of points refunded. This is based on an unofficial Starwood 'source' he usually finds reliable. Meanwhile his official Starwood source wrote, "I have no idea what the converted equivalent points will be" and his unofficial Marriott source didn't think that the old certs will be cancelled at all.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/analyzing-terrible-new-marriott-hotel-air-packages/


----------



## SMB1

ljmiii said:


> Quite true. I certainly intend to have reservations attached to all my 5-night certificates by July 31st...even if they are not where/when I most want to go. If the news after Aug 1st is good then all the better and I'll cancel and rebook.
> 
> Also, from our 'What it's worth department', The Points Guy thinks any unattached 'old' 5 and 7 night certs will be cancelled with some meager number of points refunded. This is based on an unofficial Starwood 'source' he usually finds reliable. Meanwhile his official Starwood source wrote, "I have no idea what the converted equivalent points will be" and his unofficial Marriott source didn't think that the old certs will be cancelled at all.
> 
> https://thepointsguy.com/guide/analyzing-terrible-new-marriott-hotel-air-packages/



I would be shocked and extremely angry if they cancelled the unused certs.  I think the chances of that are slim to none.


----------



## jpa2825

SMB1 said:


> I would be shocked and extremely angry if they cancelled the unused certs.  I think the chances of that are slim to none.



I think, at worst, they would cancel the cert and deposit the points back to your MR account. For example, a Cat 1-5 cert would refund 100k points for 5 night (4 nights @ 25k/night) or 150k points for 7 night (6 nights at 25k/night). If that happened, most would consider getting the airline miles at a "discount" AND the ability to use the points in increments smaller than 5 or 7 straight nights to be a good / decent trade.

If they don't want to be as generous, they could alter the pre-AUG 1 certs not yet attached to a reservation to the closest mapped Cat post-AUG 1 (e.g., Cat 1-5 becomes Cat 1-4, Cat 6&7 become Cat 5 (maybe you toss some points to the Cat 7 folks as well), Cat 8&9 & Tier 1 become Cat 6 (maybe you toss some points to the Cat 9 & Tier 1 folks as well), etc.)

In reality, Marriott knows how many of these un-redeemed Certs are out there. They can decide whether they want to "take a hit" or "be a hero" based on the various conversion scenarios. My guess is the fewer un-redeemed Certs in the system, the more generous they will be.


----------



## ljmiii

SMB1 said:


> I would be shocked and extremely angry if they cancelled the unused certs. I think the chances of that are slim to none.


I WAS surprised when I first read of the possibility of them being cancelled and converted to points.

I always thought dreams of old Cat 5 Certificates being worth new Cat 5 rooms were just that...dreams.  I assumed that old certs would be mapped into new certs based on points/night...with 6, 8, and 9 going up or down since they don't map directly.  And honestly it never occurred to me that they would cancel the old certificates since they are trumpeting the ability to buy new ones.

But if they ARE going to go to the bother of cancelling old certificates while selling new ones that are far less generous I don't see them refunding points equal to the 'value' of the old certs (i.e. giving 100,000 points in return for a Cat 5 night cert (since 5 nights for 4)). 

But shocked...not so much. Devaluation is the name of the game.


----------



## jpa2825

Pretty good predictive article & chart from back in APR here. All just speculation but interesting analysis.


----------



## SMB1

jpa2825 said:


> I think, at worst, they would cancel the cert and deposit the points back to your MR account. For example, a Cat 1-5 cert would refund 100k points for 5 night (4 nights @ 25k/night) or 150k points for 7 night (6 nights at 25k/night). If that happened, most would consider getting the airline miles at a "discount" AND the ability to use the points in increments smaller than 5 or 7 straight nights to be a good / decent trade.
> 
> If they don't want to be as generous, they could alter the pre-AUG 1 certs not yet attached to a reservation to the closest mapped Cat post-AUG 1 (e.g., Cat 1-5 becomes Cat 1-4, Cat 6&7 become Cat 5 (maybe you toss some points to the Cat 7 folks as well), Cat 8&9 & Tier 1 become Cat 6 (maybe you toss some points to the Cat 9 & Tier 1 folks as well), etc.)



I never expected the old CAT5 to map to the new cat five. I think either of these scenarios you mention here would be realistic and fair.


----------



## Steve A

I have reservations for next May in London at a cat 9 hotel and airline reservations using a seven night cert and ff miles. I expect it to be honored. My past experience, several years ago when a point change occurred while I was in the UK, is that they honored existing certificates with reservations made prior to the change.


----------



## dioxide45

Steve A said:


> I have reservations for next May in London at a cat 9 hotel and airline reservations using a seven night cert and ff miles. I expect it to be honored. My past experience, several years ago when a point change occurred while I was in the UK, is that they honored existing certificates with reservations made prior to the change.


As long as you have an existing reservation with the certificate attached, you are golden. The issue will be for those with issued certificates that are just sitting in their account not attached to a reservation.


----------



## NboroGirl

I'm a little confused on the category changes.  If I go to Marriott.com and look at the two Marriott properties in St. Kitts, it shows both of them as being category 7.  If you look at the new points chart, the Beach Club, currently at 35,000 points per night is going up to 50,000/night and will now be category 6.  The St. Kitts Marriott Resort & Royal Beach Casino is currently at 35,000 points/night, remaining at 35,000/night and it's new category will be 5.  I mistakenly believed if the points stayed the same, then the category stayed the same, but I now understand that's not the case.  In my example, the St. Kitts Marriott Resort & Royal Beach Casino won't be changing the number of points/night and the new category is 5, so I was assuming the old category was also 5. I'm now sorry I bought the travel package with the cat 1-5 certificate.

Is there any chart that shows the old category and the new category for each hotel?  Right now I've been going to marriott.com and looking up the category by selecting points to fake-book a room somewhere.  Do I just divide the old points/night by 5000 to get the old category?


----------



## dioxide45

NboroGirl said:


> I'm a little confused on the category changes.  If I go to Marriott.com and look at the two Marriott properties in St. Kitts, it shows both of them as being category 7.  If you look at the new points chart, the Beach Club, currently at 35,000 points per night is going up to 50,000/night and will now be category 6.  The St. Kitts Marriott Resort & Royal Beach Casino is currently at 35,000 points/night, remaining at 35,000/night and it's new category will be 5.  I mistakenly believed if the points stayed the same, then the category stayed the same, but I now understand that's not the case.  In my example, the St. Kitts Marriott Resort & Royal Beach Casino won't be changing the number of points/night and the new category is 5, so I was assuming the old category was also 5. I'm now sorry I bought the travel package with the cat 1-5 certificate.
> 
> Is there any chart that shows the old category and the new category for each hotel?  Right now I've been going to marriott.com and looking up the category by selecting points to fake-book a room somewhere.  Do I just divide the old points/night by 5000 to get the old category?


The smallest unit size at the Beach Club is a 2BR. THe old point prices were based on a studio/hotel size unit and to actually book the Beach Club it would have cost two additional upgrades (5000 each). So it would have previously cost 45,000 to book a 2BR at the Beach Club. Now the new point requirements are actually priced based on the smallest unit size at the resort. So the increase is really only 5000 points per night, not 15,000.

Marriott is also going from having nine categories to only eight. They have adjusted the point levels for all the categories. See the very first post for the chart that shows old and new price levels for all the properties. I don't thin it shows the old categories, but you should be able to tell based on the current point requirement.


----------



## jpa2825

NboroGirl said:


> I'm a little confused on the category changes.  If I go to Marriott.com and look at the two Marriott properties in St. Kitts, it shows both of them as being category 7.  If you look at the new points chart, the Beach Club, currently at 35,000 points per night is going up to 50,000/night and will now be category 6.  The St. Kitts Marriott Resort & Royal Beach Casino is currently at 35,000 points/night, remaining at 35,000/night and it's new category will be 5.  I mistakenly believed if the points stayed the same, then the category stayed the same, but I now understand that's not the case.  In my example, the St. Kitts Marriott Resort & Royal Beach Casino won't be changing the number of points/night and the new category is 5, so I was assuming the old category was also 5. I'm now sorry I bought the travel package with the cat 1-5 certificate.
> 
> Is there any chart that shows the old category and the new category for each hotel?  Right now I've been going to marriott.com and looking up the category by selecting points to fake-book a room somewhere.  Do I just divide the old points/night by 5000 to get the old category?



 Post #1 of this thread has the links to the new and old point values.


----------



## VacationForever

For Marriott categories... as you know you can go to the first link in the first post for new point requirement and category starting on August 1.  It also shows the old points requirement at the same time.

You can then extrapolate.  Here are the old categories with the points.  I have not paid attention to categories below 5 since I rarely stay at anything below Cat 5.  But what I have listed below is accurate for the old Marriott Cat 5 to Cat 9.

Cat 5 25K
Cat 6 30K
Cat 7 35K
Cat 8 40K
Cat 9 45K


----------



## bazzap

NboroGirl said:


> I'm a little confused on the category changes.  If I go to Marriott.com and look at the two Marriott properties in St. Kitts, it shows both of them as being category 7.  If you look at the new points chart, the Beach Club, currently at 35,000 points per night is going up to 50,000/night and will now be category 6.  The St. Kitts Marriott Resort & Royal Beach Casino is currently at 35,000 points/night, remaining at 35,000/night and it's new category will be 5.  I mistakenly believed if the points stayed the same, then the category stayed the same, but I now understand that's not the case.  In my example, the St. Kitts Marriott Resort & Royal Beach Casino won't be changing the number of points/night and the new category is 5, so I was assuming the old category was also 5. I'm now sorry I bought the travel package with the cat 1-5 certificate.
> 
> Is there any chart that shows the old category and the new category for each hotel?  Right now I've been going to marriott.com and looking up the category by selecting points to fake-book a room somewhere.  Do I just divide the old points/night by 5000 to get the old category?


I suspect the difference may be because the St Kitts Beach Club MVC resort only has 2 and 3 Bed units and as has been suggested previously this is now reflected in the Points requirement (rather than as previously having to “top up” the points for a unit size upgrade.


----------



## JanT

Unless I am linking to an old rewards package rate, it appears to me that the package rates in conjunction with United Airlines are not jumping in points purchase rates very little if at all.  All packages using airlines other than United are jumping significantly.  Is my take on this correct?


----------



## NboroGirl

jpa2825 said:


> Post #1 of this thread has the links to the new and old point values.





VacationForever said:


> For Marriott categories... as you know you can go to the first link in the first post for new point requirement and category starting on August 1.  It also shows the old points requirement at the same time.
> 
> You can then extrapolate.  Here are the old categories with the points.  I have not paid attention to categories below 5 since I rarely stay at anything below Cat 5.  But what I have listed below is accurate for the old Marriott Cat 5 to Cat 9.
> 
> Cat 5 25K
> Cat 6 30K
> Cat 7 35K
> Cat 8 40K
> Cat 9 45K



I think everyone misunderstood my previous post.  I know Post #1 had the new and old point values. That's not what I was looking for.  I wondered if there was any listing that showed old vs. new hotel CATEGORIES.  Post #1 shows NEW hotel categories, but not old.  VacationForever kind of confirmed my guess that dividing the points by 5000 is a good indicator of category.  Thanks.


----------



## kds4

JanT said:


> Unless I am linking to an old rewards package rate, it appears to me that the package rates in conjunction with United Airlines are not jumping in points purchase rates very little if at all.  All packages using airlines other than United are jumping significantly.  Is my take on this correct?



I am using a Category 1-5 accommodation certificate and 132k United Mileage Plus miles package (which includes the 10% bonus) for this example:

Current - 270,000 MRPs
8/1/18 - 330,000 MRPs

Just at face value, the package cost has jumped 60k points but there are more 'hidden' cost increases to flesh out. So, let me break each package down to its component pieces of an accommodation certificate (AC) and frequent flier (FF) miles. I'm going to calculate the cost of the AC first because that is clearly defined based on existing redemption charts of MR points required per night to redeem a stay.

Current (until 8/1/18) Category 1-5 properties cost 25k MRPs per night (at the standard rate). Also, if you redeem 4 nights you get a 5th night free. So, for a 7 night TP, you are really paying for 6 nights (and getting 1 free). This equals 150k MRPs of the 270k it currently costs for a 7 night Category 1-5 TP. The remaining 120k MRPs are the cost of the 132k United Mileage Plus miles you get with this TP. Using 120k MRPs to get 132k FF miles is a conversion ratio of .91:1. This means you are spending less than 1 MRP to get 1 FF mile. That is the best MRP to FF conversion ratio possible, and if you fly United is a great way to boost your account balance.

Now, let's compare how that same package will look after 8/1/18.

First, the package is dropping from including Category 5 properties to be only Category 1-4. So, it is possible that some of the hotels you may have wanted to go to will no longer be available unless the MRPs required per night remained the same at those properties and they were dropped down to the new Category 4 rate (which is 25k MRPs per night). If your desired property is a Category 4 or below effective 8/1/18, the math for the accommodation certificate portion of the package remains the same. You are paying 150k MRPs (25k for 6 nights and getting the 7th night free). That leaves 180k MRPs as the cost of the FF miles portion of the TP at the new rates. Effective 8/1/18, the amount of FF miles that you can get with a TP are dropping from 120k to 100k. United has a 10% bonus (because of their partnership with Marriott), so for a TP with United Mileage Plus FF miles (which is the example I am using), the miles for this travel package would be 110k. However, under the 'old' package rates, you got 132k. The amount of miles you get on United has dropped by 22k, but back to the math. You are spending 180k MRPs to get 110k United Mileage Plus miles. This gives you a conversion ratio of 1.64:1. This means the FF mile portion of your TP will 'cost' you over 50% more than it does now. In simpler terms, you will be spending more MRPs and getting fewer miles for those MRPs starting on 8/1/18. This also assumes you can get the property you want to go to with this Category 1-4 package. If you cannot, because your property stayed a Category 5 (and costs more MRPs per night starting 8/1/18 - 35k MRPs), you will have to buy the 'new' Category 5 TP for 390k MRPs (which covers the additional 10k MRPs per night for the 6 nights out of 7 that you are paying for).

If you're still with me, all of this adds up to meaning that even the United travel package is 'jumping' significantly on 8/1/18 - or as I and others have been saying; will be devalued significantly. If anyone is planning on 7 nights of travel to a property that will become/remain a Category 5 or higher on 8/1/18 (or needs/wants to increase their FF mileage balance at the best possible conversion ratio), the time to get a travel package and book the stay is before 7/31/18.

On 8/1/18, everything will cost more to get less IMHO. YMMV.


----------



## kds4

NboroGirl said:


> I think everyone misunderstood my previous post.  I know Post #1 had the new and old point values. That's not what I was looking for.  I wondered if there was any listing that showed old vs. new hotel CATEGORIES.  Post #1 shows NEW hotel categories, but not old.  VacationForever kind of confirmed my guess that dividing the points by 5000 is a good indicator of category.  Thanks.



Depending on the category, the difference can be as much as 25k MRPs per night. 

New MRP costs for standard award redemption per night by category effective 8/1/18.

1 -   7,500
2 - 12,500
3 - 17,500
4 - 25,000
5 - 35,000
6 - 50,000
7 - 60,000
8 - 85,000


----------



## JanT

kds4,

Thanks for the breakdown.  I guess haven't been looking at the 8/1/18 page.  I didn't notice that jump in points.  Then again, with all the changes, etc. my brain is foggy.  LoL  Thank you for taking the time to put all that together.  So appreciated!



kds4 said:


> I am using a Category 1-5 accommodation certificate and 132k United Mileage Plus miles package (which includes the 10% bonus) for this example:
> 
> Current - 270,000 MRPs
> 8/1/18 - 330,000 MRPs
> 
> Just at face value, the package cost has jumped 60k points but there are more 'hidden' cost increases to flesh out. So, let me break each package down to its component pieces of an accommodation certificate (AC) and frequent flier (FF) miles. I'm going to calculate the cost of the AC first because that is clearly defined based on existing redemption charts of MR points required per night to redeem a stay.
> 
> Current (until 8/1/18) Category 1-5 properties cost 25k MRPs per night (at the standard rate). Also, if you redeem 4 nights you get a 5th night free. So, for a 7 night TP, you are really paying for 6 nights (and getting 1 free). This equals 150k MRPs of the 270k it currently costs for a 7 night Category 1-5 TP. The remaining 120k MRPs are the cost of the 132k United Mileage Plus miles you get with this TP. Using 120k MRPs to get 132k FF miles is a conversion ratio of .91:1. This means you are spending less than 1 MRP to get 1 FF mile. That is the best MRP to FF conversion ratio possible, and if you fly United is a great way to boost your account balance.
> 
> Now, let's compare how that same package will look after 8/1/18.
> 
> First, the package is dropping from including Category 5 properties to be only Category 1-4. So, it is possible that some of the hotels you may have wanted to go to will no longer be available unless the MRPs required per night remained the same at those properties and they were dropped down to the new Category 4 rate (which is 25k MRPs per night). If your desired property is a Category 4 or below effective 8/1/18, the math for the accommodation certificate portion of the package remains the same. You are paying 150k MRPs (25k for 6 nights and getting the 7th night free). That leaves 180k MRPs as the cost of the FF miles portion of the TP at the new rates. Effective 8/1/18, the amount of FF miles that you can get with a TP are dropping from 120k to 100k. United has a 10% bonus (because of their partnership with Marriott), so for a TP with United Mileage Plus FF miles (which is the example I am using), the miles for this travel package would be 110k. However, under the 'old' package rates, you got 132k. The amount of miles you get on United has dropped by 22k, but back to the math. You are spending 180k MRPs to get 110k United Mileage Plus miles. This gives you a conversion ratio of 1.64:1. This means the FF mile portion of your TP will 'cost' you over 50% more than it does now. In simpler terms, you will be spending more MRPs and getting fewer miles for those MRPs starting on 8/1/18. This also assumes you can get the property you want to go to with this Category 1-4 package. If you cannot, because your property stayed a Category 5 (and costs more MRPs per night starting 8/1/18 - 35k MRPs), you will have to buy the 'new' Category 5 TP for 390k MRPs (which covers the additional 10k MRPs per night for the 6 nights out of 7 that you are paying for).
> 
> If you're still with me, all of this adds up to meaning that even the United travel package is 'jumping' significantly on 8/1/18 - or as I and others have been saying; will be devalued significantly. If anyone is planning on 7 nights of travel to a property that will become/remain a Category 5 or higher on 8/1/18 (or needs/wants to increase their FF mileage balance at the best possible conversion ratio), the time to get a travel package and book the stay is before 7/31/18.
> 
> On 8/1/18, everything will cost more to get less IMHO. YMMV.


----------



## JanT

Ok, I'm sorry.  I still cannot find the 8/1/18 United Airlines package information.  I went to the link in post 1 and that shows all the other airlines than United.  There is a hotlink within that link to get to RewardsPlus (United info) but it is no different than what is showing currently on the Marriott website.  Can anyone provide me a link to the UA package information beginning 1 August.  Thank you!



kds4 said:


> Depending on the category, the difference can be as much as 25k MRPs per night.
> 
> New MRP costs for standard award redemption per night by category effective 8/1/18.
> 
> 1 -   7,500
> 2 - 12,500
> 3 - 17,500
> 4 - 25,000
> 5 - 35,000
> 6 - 50,000
> 7 - 60,000
> 8 - 85,000


----------



## kds4

JanT said:


> kds4,
> 
> Thanks for the breakdown.  I guess haven't been looking at the 8/1/18 page.  I didn't notice that jump in points.  Then again, with all the changes, etc. my brain is foggy.  LoL  Thank you for taking the time to put all that together.  So appreciated!



I hope it helped. If you are an MVCI owner you are eligible for the 5 night travel packages (which are an even better value than the 7 night packages) which are discussed elsewhere.


----------



## kds4

JanT said:


> Ok, I'm sorry.  I still cannot find the 8/1/18 United Airlines package information.  I went to the link in post 1 and that shows all the other airlines than United.  There is a hotlink within that link to get to RewardsPlus (United info) but it is no different than what is showing currently on the Marriott website.  Can anyone provide me a link to the UA package information beginning 1 August.  Thank you!



There isn't a separate 'UA package' that I know of after 8/1/18. You simply contact MR (or MVCI if you are an owner) to redeem a travel package. They will ask you which airline you want the miles credited to and if you choose United, there is a 10% mileage bonus that is added to your package. If it is the 50k miles package you will get 55k. If it is the 100k miles package you will be credited 110k in your Mileage Plus account.

If you look about half-way down the page that is linked on the original post of this thread you should see the following:

*You’ll receive 10% more MileagePlus award miles when you redeem for a Hotel + Air Package, up to 12,000 more miles. Discover all the advantages of RewardsPlus.*

However, I will also say that there is a conflict in this statement. It says 10% more miles and up to 12,000 more miles. It can't be both under the new mileage scheme. If the maximum number of miles you can get for a travel package will be 100k effective 8/1/18, a 10% bonus will be 10k miles - not the 12k stated.

I believe the 12k bonus reference is based on the current (until 8/1/18) mileage scheme which goes up to 120k miles. A 10% bonus on 120k miles would be the 12k they are advertising.

In short, I believe the new maximum bonus on United will be 10k miles.


----------



## JanT

kds4,

Yes, I saw the 10% more MileagePlus award miles sentence and I knew that was the case.  I haven't talked directly with Marriott about a travel package and I know I need to call them if I want one.  My confusion lies in the fact that in this link:  https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf it lists all the participating airlines and United is not listed there.  Further down on the page it talks about all the benefits of RewardsPlus and there is a hotlink to that.  When you click on that hotlink it takes you to a separate page and all the RewardsPlus packages are listed there - as well as the current packages for other airlines.  So, United is not in the new list of participating airlines, except for the link to RewardsPlus.  That link is not showing any changes to the RewardsPlus packages.  Does that make sense?





kds4 said:


> There isn't a separate 'UA package' that I know of after 8/1/18. You simply contact MR (or MVCI if you are an owner) to redeem a travel package. They will ask you which airline you want the miles credited to and if you choose United, there is a 10% mileage bonus that is added to your package. If it is the 50k miles package you will get 55k. If it is the 100k miles package you will be credited 110k in your Mileage Plus account.
> 
> If you look about half-way down the page that is linked on the original post of this thread you should see the following:
> 
> *You’ll receive 10% more MileagePlus award miles when you redeem for a Hotel + Air Package, up to 12,000 more miles. Discover all the advantages of RewardsPlus.*
> 
> However, I will also say that there is a conflict in this statement. It says 10% more miles and up to 12,000 more miles. It can't be both under the new mileage scheme. If the maximum number of miles you can get for a travel package will be 100k effective 8/1/18, a 10% bonus will be 10k miles - not the 12k stated.
> 
> I believe the 12k bonus reference is based on the current (until 8/1/18) mileage scheme which goes up to 120k miles. A 10% bonus on 120k miles would be the 12k they are advertising.
> 
> In short, I believe the new maximum bonus on United will be 10k miles.


----------



## SMB1

JanT said:


> kds4,
> 
> Yes, I saw the 10% more MileagePlus award miles sentence and I knew that was the case.  I haven't talked directly with Marriott about a travel package and I know I need to call them if I want one.  My confusion lies in the fact that in this link:  https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf it lists all the participating airlines and United is not listed there.  Further down on the page it talks about all the benefits of RewardsPlus and there is a hotlink to that.  When you click on that hotlink it takes you to a separate page and all the RewardsPlus packages are listed there - as well as the current packages for other airlines.  So, United is not in the new list of participating airlines, except for the link to RewardsPlus.  That link is not showing any changes to the RewardsPlus packages.  Does that make sense?



I see what you are saying and it is a little misleading, but I think KDS4 is right on with the 10% increase from 50 -> 55 and 100 -> united miles under the new travel packages.  Huge devaluation.


----------



## dioxide45

NboroGirl said:


> I think everyone misunderstood my previous post.  I know Post #1 had the new and old point values. That's not what I was looking for.  I wondered if there was any listing that showed old vs. new hotel CATEGORIES.  Post #1 shows NEW hotel categories, but not old.  VacationForever kind of confirmed my guess that dividing the points by 5000 is a good indicator of category.  Thanks.


I don't think Marriott included the old category in that chart linked in post #1 because there is no real correlation to the old categories and the new ones. They are restructuring their categories all together. They did include current and new point requirements to give you the idea of what the point differences are.


----------



## jeepie

kds4 said:


> 'Stocking up on Category 5 TPs' in general is not going to be helpful. Having accommodation certificates sitting in your account unused as of August 1st will more likely just result in frustration later.
> 
> The key is getting Category 5 TPs now AND making a reservation at a property that will be going up to a Category 6 or higher on August 1st. Reserving now to stay at properties that will cost more later is the value of getting and using TPs before they are devalued August 1st and you pay more to get the same (or less) than you can get now. I am waiting as close to the end of the month as possible before redeeming mine (so I can stretch my AC reservation dates as far into 2019 as possible, since I need summer).


Good points I think. I would add (my opinion!) that the same strategy can be used for other categories. Also, since 7 night TPS have been severely devalued, it is a good move to hedge against the likely similar treatment of 5 night TPS, even if one is not prepared to make hotel reservations just yet. I just bought two TPS, one United and one Alaska, Cat 8 and 9 respectively. Btw, United miles posted in 3 days, Alaska in 5. I’ll probably do a couple more before 8/1. I’m not going “all in” because I hope the new TPs will be announced in the next couple of weeks. Cheers.


----------



## kds4

_[Merged]_
*Travel Package 'Sweet Spots' Until 7/31/18
*
So, I thought if could be useful to identify which properties will be adjusting up in category on 8/1/18 thereby creating 'sweet spots' to apply existing travel packages to before D-Day (aka Devaluation Day).

I am starting with the current Category 5 properties - for those who do/will have a Category 1-5 TP accommodation certificate to book between now and 7/31/18. The following properties are all currently 25k MRPs per night and will map to the new Category 5 effective 8/1/18 becoming 35k MRP per night. For a 5 night TP, that will be at least a 40k MRP increase in cost to stay at these properties if booked on/after 8/1/18.

Calgary Airport Marriott In-Terminal Hotel Marriott Canada 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
Eugenia de Montijo, Autograph Collection Autograph Collection Spain 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
JW Marriott Hotel New Delhi Aerocity JW Marriott India 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
Marriott's Villas at Doral Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
Paragraph Resort & Spa Shekvetili, Autograph Collection Autograph Collection Georgia 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
Residence Inn Temecula Murrieta Residence Inn USA 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5


----------



## mvc

jmhpsu93 said:


> Thought this needed its own thread, I also posted in the main merger one.  Mods:  adjust accordingly.
> 
> New Charts:
> 
> https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
> 
> New Packages:
> 
> https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf
> 
> A cursory check of a few properties indicates what MR told us...some go up, some go down, though for an example like Orlando, there are roughly triple the number of downs vs. ups.  And the 35K value of a the free night on the MRCC is MUCH more valuable than the current Cat 5 one...lots more options.





jmhpsu93 said:


> Thought this needed its own thread, I also posted in the main merger one.  Mods:  adjust accordingly.
> 
> New Charts:
> 
> https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
> 
> New Packages:
> 
> https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf
> 
> A cursory check of a few properties indicates what MR told us...some go up, some go down, though for an example like Orlando, there are roughly triple the number of downs vs. ups.  And the 35K value of a the free night on the MRCC is MUCH more valuable than the current Cat 5 one...lots more options.


----------



## mvc

jmhpsu93 said:


> Thought this needed its own thread, I also posted in the main merger one.  Mods:  adjust accordingly.
> 
> New Charts:
> 
> https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
> 
> New Packages:
> 
> https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf
> 
> A cursory check of a few properties indicates what MR told us...some go up, some go down, though for an example like Orlando, there are roughly triple the number of downs vs. ups.  And the 35K value of a the free night on the MRCC is MUCH more valuable than the current Cat 5 one...lots more options.


----------



## kds4

kds4 said:


> _[Merged]_
> *Travel Package 'Sweet Spots' Until 7/31/18
> *
> So, I thought if could be useful to identify which properties will be adjusting up in category on 8/1/18 thereby creating 'sweet spots' to apply existing travel packages to before D-Day (aka Devaluation Day).
> 
> I am starting with the current Category 5 properties - for those who do/will have a Category 1-5 TP accommodation certificate to book between now and 7/31/18. The following properties are all currently 25k MRPs per night and will map to the new Category 5 effective 8/1/18 becoming 35k MRP per night. For a 5 night TP, that will be at least a 40k MRP increase in cost to stay at these properties if booked on/after 8/1/18.
> 
> Calgary Airport Marriott In-Terminal Hotel Marriott Canada 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> Eugenia de Montijo, Autograph Collection Autograph Collection Spain 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> JW Marriott Hotel New Delhi Aerocity JW Marriott India 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> Marriott's Villas at Doral Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> Paragraph Resort & Spa Shekvetili, Autograph Collection Autograph Collection Georgia 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> Residence Inn Temecula Murrieta Residence Inn USA 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5



Please note that this is not intended to be a substitute for the links provided in the original post on this thread. It is only a 'hack' for those who have had trouble mastering how to use the sort and search functions of that document to interpret the data for their individual travel planning needs. YMMV.


----------



## VacationForever

kds4 said:


> _[Merged]_
> *Travel Package 'Sweet Spots' Until 7/31/18
> *
> So, I thought if could be useful to identify which properties will be adjusting up in category on 8/1/18 thereby creating 'sweet spots' to apply existing travel packages to before D-Day (aka Devaluation Day).
> 
> I am starting with the current Category 5 properties - for those who do/will have a Category 1-5 TP accommodation certificate to book between now and 7/31/18. The following properties are all currently 25k MRPs per night and will map to the new Category 5 effective 8/1/18 becoming 35k MRP per night. For a 5 night TP, that will be at least a 40k MRP increase in cost to stay at these properties if booked on/after 8/1/18.
> 
> Calgary Airport Marriott In-Terminal Hotel Marriott Canada 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> Eugenia de Montijo, Autograph Collection Autograph Collection Spain 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> JW Marriott Hotel New Delhi Aerocity JW Marriott India 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> Marriott's Villas at Doral Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> Paragraph Resort & Spa Shekvetili, Autograph Collection Autograph Collection Georgia 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5
> Residence Inn Temecula Murrieta Residence Inn USA 25,000 to 35,000 - New Cat 5


The current Cat 5 will be Cat 4 after August 1st.  If the certificate has not been attached prior to August first, I strongly believe that it will only be good for Cat 4 properties after August 1st, unless you pay more points to adjust to a higher category.


----------



## kds4

For those who do/will have a Category 6 travel package AC to book by 7/31/18, take a look at this property. While it is currently a Category 6 (30k MRP per night), it will be jumping to 50k MRP per night on 8/1/18 (and mapping to the new Cat 6). That is an 80k MRP increase over a 5 night stay.

Marriott's Club Son Antem Marriott Vacation Club Intl Spain 30,000 to 50,000 - New Cat 6


----------



## kds4

VacationForever said:


> The current Cat 5 will be Cat 4 after August 1st.  If the certificate has not been attached prior to August first, I strongly believe that it will only be good for Cat 4 properties after August 1st, unless you pay more points to adjust to a higher category.



Correct. The properties I am pointing out are those I would want to book my travel package AC to by 7/31/18 for just the reason you described.


----------



## kds4

For those who do/will have a Category 7 travel package AC to book by 7/31/18, take a look at these properties. While currently a Category 7 (35k MRP per night), they will be jumping to 50k MRP per night on 8/1/18 (and mapping to the new Cat 6). That is a 60k MRP increase over a 5 night stay.

Fairfield Inn & Suites Virgin Zion National Park Fairfield Inn USA 35,000 to 50,000
Marriott Vacation Club Pulse, San Diego Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
Marriott's Cypress Harbour Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 
Marriott's Fairway Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 
Marriott's Imperial Palms Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 
Marriott's Marbella Beach Resort Marriott Vacation Club Intl Spain 35,000 50,000 
Marriott's Royal Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 
Marriott's Sabal Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000 
Marriott's St. Kitts Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl Saint Kitts and Nevis 35,000 50,000 
SpringHill Suites Springdale Zion National Park SpringHill Suites USA 35,000 50,000


----------



## kds4

For those who do/will have a Category 8 travel package AC to book by 7/31/18, take a look at these properties. While currently a Category 8 (40k MRP per night), they will be jumping to 60k MRP per night on 8/1/18 (and mapping to the new Cat 7). That is an 80k MRP increase over a 5 night stay.

Marriott's Kauai Lagoons - Kalanipu'u Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
Marriott's Newport Coast Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000

There is a long list of Category 8 properties that will also be jumping up 10k from 40k to 50k MRP on 8/1/18 (mapping to the new Cat 6).


----------



## NiteMaire

dioxide45 said:


> As long as you have an existing reservation with the certificate attached, you are golden. The issue will be for those with issued certificates that are just sitting in their account not attached to a reservation.


I have 4 unattached certs. If they give back points, I'll leave them unattached. I did it purely for the air miles (had 1 already, "purchased" 3 additional 2 weeks ago) and wanted to maximize them before the devaluation on Aug 1. I almost called and asked if I could get any points returned by canceling the hotel portion. Maybe I'll be TUG's guinea pig for unattached certs and report back what happens.


----------



## kds4

NiteMaire said:


> I have 4 unattached certs. If they give back points, I'll leave them unattached. I did it purely for the air miles (had 1 already, "purchased" 3 additional 2 weeks ago) and wanted to maximize them before the devaluation on Aug 1. I almost called and asked if I could get any points returned by canceling the hotel portion. Maybe I'll be TUG's guinea pig for unattached certs and report back what happens.



I would wait a while after the change on 8/1/18 before trying to get points back from the ACs. I would even consider extending them another year (which I am speculating can still be done based on past practice). This would put the 'big' program change pretty far back in the rear view mirror and increase the odds of getting points back IMHO. Good luck and do report back whenever you do attempt this.


----------



## StevenTing

kds4 said:


> For those who do/will have a Category 7 travel package AC to book by 7/31/18, take a look at these properties. While currently a Category 7 (35k MRP per night), they will be jumping to 50k MRP per night on 8/1/18 (and mapping to the new Cat 6). That is a 60k MRP increase over a 5 night stay.
> 
> Fairfield Inn & Suites Virgin Zion National Park Fairfield Inn USA 35,000 to 50,000
> Marriott Vacation Club Pulse, San Diego Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Cypress Harbour Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Fairway Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Imperial Palms Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Marbella Beach Resort Marriott Vacation Club Intl Spain 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Royal Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Sabal Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's St. Kitts Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl Saint Kitts and Nevis 35,000 50,000
> SpringHill Suites Springdale Zion National Park SpringHill Suites USA 35,000 50,000





kds4 said:


> For those who do/will have a Category 8 travel package AC to book by 7/31/18, take a look at these properties. While currently a Category 8 (40k MRP per night), they will be jumping to 60k MRP per night on 8/1/18 (and mapping to the new Cat 7). That is an 80k MRP increase over a 5 night stay.
> 
> Marriott's Kauai Lagoons - Kalanipu'u Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
> Marriott's Newport Coast Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
> Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
> Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
> 
> There is a long list of Category 8 properties that will also be jumping up 10k from 40k to 50k MRP on 8/1/18 (mapping to the new Cat 6).



My link may help you out.  Go to column F and sort.  You can see the biggest changes there.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18FzZIgto3Ms8CrV3caJOpuhbMFIiWtcYldO5Uon31ec/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## J22Frosty

jmhpsu93 said:


> Thought this needed its own thread, I also posted in the main merger one.  Mods:  adjust accordingly.
> 
> New Charts:
> 
> https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
> 
> New Packages:
> 
> https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e1/marriott/redemption/HAR18036_TravelPackages_Chart2.pdf
> 
> A cursory check of a few properties indicates what MR told us...some go up, some go down, though for an example like Orlando, there are roughly triple the number of downs vs. ups.  And the 35K value of a the free night on the MRCC is MUCH more valuable than the current Cat 5 one...lots more options.



I have 2 questions:

1. Where can you find the NEW PACKAGES on the Marriott web site?  I contacted the Marriott Rewards & the lady I spoke to could not find the new packages and I could not either.

As you said, the increase for the higher category hotels is astronomical!  If I am reading the before/after charts correctly, the points need for a 7 night package at a Category 8 hotel goes up from 290,000 to 675,000 points!  Could that be right?

2. 5 Night Packages

It seems that everyone thinks the 5 Night Packages are a better deal.  Currently a 5 night package is 230,000 for a Category 8 hotel.  I think the 7 Night Package is a better deal (as long as you want to stay 7 nights).  What am I missing?

P.S.  A Marriott Rewards rep told me this about the 5 Night Package (650T) in an email, "However to answer your question they are getting rid of it. They have yet to tell us what they are replacing it with. But we are sure it will be a better package if not the same, with a different name."


----------



## kds4

J22Frosty said:


> I have 2 questions:
> 
> 1. Where can you find the NEW PACKAGES on the Marriott web site?  I contacted the Marriott Rewards & the lady I spoke to could not find the new packages and I could not either.
> 
> As you said, the increase for the higher category hotels is astronomical!  If I am reading the before/after charts correctly, the points need for a 7 night package at a Category 8 hotel goes up from 290,000 to 675,000 points!  Could that be right?
> 
> 2. 5 Night Packages
> 
> It seems that everyone thinks the 5 Night Packages are a better deal.  Currently a 5 night package is 230,000 for a Category 8 hotel.  I think the 7 Night Package is a better deal (as long as you want to stay 7 nights).  What am I missing?
> 
> P.S.  A Marriott Rewards rep told me this about the 5 Night Package (650T) in an email, "However to answer your question they are getting rid of it. They have yet to tell us what they are replacing it with. But we are sure it will be a better package if not the same, with a different name."



1. I don't think they will 'publish' them on the Marriott website until they take effect. A link that someone was able to get their hands on and provide for TUG users is in the original post. We're lucky to get a 'peek' into what lies ahead (and have the opportunity to plan ahead how best to respond based on our individual needs).

2. The advantage of 5 night packages is that you are 'paying' for 4 nights and getting the 5th night free. With a 7 night package, you are paying for 6 nights and getting 1 free. The average MRP cost per night of accommodation is lower using a 5 night package. Consider a Category 6 property currently costing 30k MRP per night:

5 Night Accommodation Certificate - 120k MRP total with an average cost of 24k MRP per night stayed.
7 Night Accommodation Certificate - 180k MRP total with an average cost of 25,700 MRP per night stayed.

Over the course of a 7 night stay, that extra average of 1,700 MRP per night will add up to close to 12,000 MRP more than you would for a 5 night stay at the same property. Likely not a deal breaker for anyone, but a free night somewhere with those saved points in a Category 1 or just about a Category 2 property is still a free night. I guess the take away could be if you are going somewhere for 7 nights, you may want to consider stringing two 5 night packages together (since the lowest averages occur in 5 night increments).

P.S. - If what you were told is true about Marriott getting rid of 5 night packages that will be the scariest thing I have heard today.


----------



## kds4

I just had a chat with an MVCI representative. She could not confirm that 5 night Travel Packages will be available after 8/1/18. All she could confirm was that any 5 night Travel Package purchased before 8/1/18 would still be honored.


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## jeff76543

However what does "still be honored" mean?

It would be nice if an authoritative Marriott source would clearly state that (at a minimum) an unattached 5 day hotel certificate from a travel package that currently is good at a hotel that requires x number of rewards points per day today will be valid for 5 days at a hotel that requires the same x number of reward points per day after August 1st (even if the reward level has changed). For example, that today's level 7 hotel certificate (35,000 MRP's per night) will become a new level 5 hotel certificate (35,000 MRP's per night after the new hotel levels go into effect in August). This would eliminate the possibility that on August 1st Marriott would "cash out" and return only what it deems to be the point value of an unattached 5 day hotel award from a travel package - which is only a fraction of the point value of a 5 day hotel stay. For example, it has been stated by some that until now when a 5 day, level 7 hotel reward certificate from a travel package is cancelled at a Marriott account member's request, only 45,000 MRP's are returned rather than 140,000 MRP's, which would be the regular value of a 5 day, level 7 hotel reward certificate that was not a part of a travel package.

I don't think that anyone has reported a definite response from a Marriott representative that clarifies the policy that Marriott will adopt as of August 1st with unattached hotel certificates from travel packages.


----------



## tompk

5 Night Accommodation Certificate - 120k MRP total with an average cost of 24k MRP per night stayed.
7 Night Accommodation Certificate - 180k MRP total with an average cost of 30k MRP per night stayed.

There is some bad math in the above which I copied from an earlier post above, 120k/5 does = 24k per night but 180k/7 does not = 30k per night.  Closer to 25.7k per night which is still pretty good for a 30k per night hotel and gives you a full week of vacation.


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## kds4

Steve Fatula said:


> Yep, lots of difference. The biggest increase is the Domes of Elounda in Greece, +40,000! The San Francisco St Regis ties for the biggest decrease, -30,000. If you sort on that column, there are 35 full pages of decreases, at 100 per page. There are 21 full pages of increases. The rest remain the same.



Just for fun I tried to look for availability at Domes of Elounda. A room for 4 adults/teens is bookable for 7 nights only until 10/25/18. It is sold out from then on through June of 2019 (which is as far as the reservation window currently goes on Marriott.com).


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## kds4

tompk said:


> 5 Night Accommodation Certificate - 120k MRP total with an average cost of 24k MRP per night stayed.
> 7 Night Accommodation Certificate - 180k MRP total with an average cost of 30k MRP per night stayed.
> 
> There is some bad math in the above which I copied from an earlier post above, 120k/5 does = 24k per night but 180k/7 does not = 30k per night.  Closer to 25.7k per night which is still pretty good for a 30k per night hotel and gives you a full week of vacation.



Good catch. I only divided by the 6 nights paid for, as opposed to the full 7 night stay. I have corrected/amended my previous post. Thanks.


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## jeff76543

Domes of Elounda closes for the winter, like many tourist hotels in Crete, which usually close from the end of October until at least a few days before Easter. I read on FT that Domes of Elounda opens its reservations for 2019 only at the end of August 2018.


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## kds4

jeff76543 said:


> Domes of Elounda closes for the winter, like many tourist hotels in Crete, which usually close from the end of October until at least a few days before Easter. I read on FT that Domes of Elounda opens its reservations for 2019 only at the end of August 2018.



Thanks for that info. From the photos it looks like a great property. I had no idea they have up to 3BR residences. Mamma Mia!


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## jeff76543

It's a beautiful location.

There is a long thread on Domes of Elounda in FT that is worth reading. It includes lots of travel reports from people who stayed there. Crete is a wonderful place to vacation.


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## dioxide45

kds4 said:


> For those who do/will have a Category 6 travel package AC to book by 7/31/18, take a look at this property. While it is currently a Category 6 (30k MRP per night), it will be jumping to 50k MRP per night on 8/1/18 (and mapping to the new Cat 6). That is an 80k MRP increase over a 5 night stay.
> 
> Marriott's Club Son Antem Marriott Vacation Club Intl Spain 30,000 to 50,000 - New Cat 6





kds4 said:


> For those who do/will have a Category 7 travel package AC to book by 7/31/18, take a look at these properties. While currently a Category 7 (35k MRP per night), they will be jumping to 50k MRP per night on 8/1/18 (and mapping to the new Cat 6). That is a 60k MRP increase over a 5 night stay.
> 
> Fairfield Inn & Suites Virgin Zion National Park Fairfield Inn USA 35,000 to 50,000
> Marriott Vacation Club Pulse, San Diego Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Cypress Harbour Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Fairway Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Imperial Palms Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Marbella Beach Resort Marriott Vacation Club Intl Spain 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Royal Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's Sabal Palms Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 35,000 50,000
> Marriott's St. Kitts Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl Saint Kitts and Nevis 35,000 50,000
> SpringHill Suites Springdale Zion National Park SpringHill Suites USA 35,000 50,000





kds4 said:


> For those who do/will have a Category 8 travel package AC to book by 7/31/18, take a look at these properties. While currently a Category 8 (40k MRP per night), they will be jumping to 60k MRP per night on 8/1/18 (and mapping to the new Cat 7). That is an 80k MRP increase over a 5 night stay.
> 
> Marriott's Kauai Lagoons - Kalanipu'u Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
> Marriott's Newport Coast Villas Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
> Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
> Marriott’s Waikoloa Ocean Club Marriott Vacation Club Intl USA 40,000 60,000
> 
> There is a long list of Category 8 properties that will also be jumping up 10k from 40k to 50k MRP on 8/1/18 (mapping to the new Cat 6).



These aren't nearlly the big increase that you are thinking. Many of those properties don't have studio/hotel units. The old pricing was based on a hotel size unit and to actually book a 2BR with points it would have cost an additional 10,000 points (5,000x2 upgrade certs) So a property that was 40,000 would have actually cost you 50,000. The new point levels are priced correctly based on the actual smallest unit available at the property. So for Kauai Lagoons, it is priced at 60,000 where the old price was really 50,000 (you were never able to book Kauai Lagoons for only 40,000.


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## kds4

dioxide45 said:


> These aren't nearlly the big increase that you are thinking. Many of those properties don't have studio/hotel units. The old pricing was based on a hotel size unit and to actually book a 2BR with points it would have cost an additional 10,000 points (5,000x2 upgrade certs) So a property that was 40,000 would have actually cost you 50,000. The new point levels are priced correctly based on the actual smallest unit available at the property. So for Kauai Lagoons, it is priced at 60,000 where the old price was really 50,000 (you were never able to book Kauai Lagoons for only 40,000.



For the MVCI properties, agreed. I was only looking at the change from an overall category perspective. The changes are more substantial for the non-MVCI properties.


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## Saintsfanfl

Any new info on the mapping? It looks like all the categories from 6-9 are really dropping down two levels give or take. I cannot imagine buying a cat 7 package and being able to use it to reserve a new cat 7 category. I just don't see them doing that. That said, is there any harm is buying the highest category packages and then seeing how it plays out? Is there any downside to that, besides not being able to get as many packages before 8/1?

I am sitting on 1,064,000 points. I am leaning towards doing four Cat 6 packages. If I go any higher in cat, then it drops to only 3 packages. Unless I buy SPG points on my DW and transfer them. Then I could do four Cat 7 packages.

I have never redeemed for a travel package so I am looking for advice. I definitely want to do them before 8/1.


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## Saintsfanfl

I could do 3 cat5's and 1 cat9, or 3 cat6's and 1 cat 8. If 5-night packages go away then I don't know if they will be able to change the categories anymore.


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## jeepie

Saintsfanfl said:


> I could do 3 cat5's and 1 cat9, or 3 cat6's and 1 cat 8. If 5-night packages go away then I don't know if they will be able to change the categories anymore.


First, I assume you are maximizing the miles (for me, 132,000 United and 120,000 Alaska are most useful). Marriott’s past practices have been very flexible with the “nights” portion. 
Forgive me if I am stating things you already know, but I hope this is helpful to others too. You could upgrade or downgrade categories, and extend for a year from that date (or from simply requesting an extension). I think many of us are waiting for notification of changes in August. I have just bought two TPs, Cat 8 and 9. I will likely buy a few more (still have over 2mm points), but will wait until I know if they devalue the 5 night TPs similarly to the 7 nighters. Some are also hedging by actually reserving stays with the plans to use them or perhaps protect themselves from Marriott simply refunding a small number of points and canceling the “nights” portion of the TPs. Of course, the miles are already safely moved. This forum is great, as together we can maximize our knowledge and avoid disappointment. Cheers.


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## Saintsfanfl

I am trying to maximize miles but I will also use at least two of the 5-nights, although not until Sep 2019, so I will need to extend. For me I think Delta is going to work better, even though it is probably harder to maximize the value since they do not have a standardized redemption chart. I am in Orlando and prefer non-stop flights if possible and Delta has more from here (from what I can tell so far), including some to Europe.

We do not know for sure that we would be able to change the category on the certification after 8/1. If new 5-nights are eliminated altogether, a rep will not be able to cancel the old and issue a new one. I am sure they would be able to cancel and give points back, if pushed, which should be close enough if we can still book 4 nights and get the 5th for free.


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## jewls

My head is spinning.  It looks like I should be getting a 5 day cert.  How many airline miles do I get?  I have no idea where or when I want to go.  It also sounds like I should book a reservation for the hotel portion before 8/1....correct? Any simple suggestions would be appreciated.  We only have 450,000 points & I would like to maximize them.


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## Saintsfanfl

jewls said:


> My head is spinning.  It looks like I should be getting a 5 day cert.  How many airline miles do I get?  I have no idea where or when I want to go.  It also sounds like I should book a reservation for the hotel portion before 8/1....correct? Any simple suggestions would be appreciated.  We only have 450,000 points & I would like to maximize them.



You get up to 120,000 miles, or 132,000 on united. I would buy SPG points and transfer them to Marriott to get you enough for two packages. You only need 20,000 more points.


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## jpa2825

Anyone consider buying a TP, booking a location you really think you want to go to before 8.1 and then trying to just change the dates of the reservation to keep the 5 night certificate undisturbed? 

For example,

Marriott Pulse San Diego is going from current Cat7 (35k MRPs) to new Cat6 (50k MRPs) after 8.1 
I think I want to stay 5 nights there in 2019, but not sure when. 
If I buy a 5 night Cat7 TP, I get 120k Delta miles for 270k MRPs
If I book a random 5 nights in 2019, I am good to go and "kinda" getting 120k Delta miles for only 70k MRPs
50k/nt for 4 nights (5th night free) = 200k

Real question is, do I have a better chance of the 5 night OLD Cat7 cert "sticking" with the reservation if I just change from my randomly selected nights to 5 straight available nights at the same location than?
I am assuming if the cert doesn't get attached anywhere before 8.1, I'll get whatever "conversion" Marriott thinks is appropriate
I am also assuming if I tried to move the cert attached to the random dates at a property other than the Marriott Pulse San Diego, it will result in a cancellation of the cert and a reissue of it at the conversion value mentioned above
Just asking if changing dates only at the same location might not trigger that cancel and reissue at converted value exchange.

Of course, if they map OLD Cat7 certs to NEW Cat6 certs (which I don't think they'll do, I think OLD Cat7 certs will get mapped to NEW Cat5 certs), this is an academic inquiry b/c I can then book the Marriott Pulse San Diego whenever available with the cert.


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## jeepie

jewls said:


> My head is spinning.  It looks like I should be getting a 5 day cert.  How many airline miles do I get?  I have no idea where or when I want to go.  It also sounds like I should book a reservation for the hotel portion before 8/1....correct? Any simple suggestions would be appreciated.  We only have 450,000 points & I would like to maximize them.


Log in to your MVC account, follow this link and then call Owner Services.
https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials
You could then get two TPs with the Category and Airlines you prefer. Generally, I suggest maximizing the miles and taking lower rated hotels. You can change later. Ymmv. Cheers.


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## NboroGirl

As Marriott Gold members, we get room upgrades if/when they are available.  If we are using hotel certificates from TPs, is that still a possiblity? Or will they keep us in the category of the certificate no matter what?


----------



## hangloose

NboroGirl said:


> As Marriott Gold members, we get room upgrades if/when they are available.  If we are using hotel certificates from TPs, is that still a possiblity? Or will they keep us in the category of the certificate no matter what?



My experience indicates that Marriott can still upgrade you if a better room is available, even if reserved through a TP certificate.


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## Saintsfanfl

Yes, they can still upgrade you. Upgrades are based on the individual property. It can even be influenced by the actual owner.


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## NJDave

Saintsfanfl said:


> Any new info on the mapping? It looks like all the categories from 6-9 are really dropping down two levels give or take. I cannot imagine buying a cat 7 package and being able to use it to reserve a new cat 7 category. I just don't see them doing that. That said, is there any harm is buying the highest category packages and then seeing how it plays out? Is there any downside to that, besides not being able to get as many packages before 8/1?
> 
> I am sitting on 1,064,000 points. I am leaning towards doing four Cat 6 packages. If I go any higher in cat, then it drops to only 3 packages. Unless I buy SPG points on my DW and transfer them. Then I could do four Cat 7 packages.
> 
> I have never redeemed for a travel package so I am looking for advice. I definitely want to do them before 8/1.



I am also thinking that a category 6 is the sweet spot. It is logical that if they remap that 6 and 7 both get categorized as 5. Category 5 has some possibilities.  I don't think a new 4 has many options so I would reserve a current 5.

Having said that, since the hotel that I am targeting is currently a category 7 and becoming a 5, I plan on booking a 7.  I don't want to risk reserving a category 6 even though I think Marriott will map a current 6 and 7 the same if they map by category and don't do a pure points value mapping (i.e. provide credit for the number of points under the old system and charge the additional points under the new system).

If I had 1 million points and no targeted hotels, I would hedge my bet and not get all the packages all in the same category.  May get two 6's, one 7 and one 8?  You wouldn't need many more points.


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## JanT

I see a lot of people are booking 5 night packages vs 7 night packages and the reference to it being a better value.  Can someone explain why the preference for 5 day?  Anywhere we typically would use the package we would go for 7 days but I'm just curious about the 5 night package being a better deal.


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## jeepie

JanT said:


> I see a lot of people are booking 5 night packages vs 7 night packages and the reference to it being a better value.  Can someone explain why the preference for 5 day?  Anywhere we typically would use the package we would go for 7 days but I'm just curious about the 5 night package being a better deal.


Many people find the most value is derived from the airline miles portion of the TP. You can do the math and see what is best for you. If you do intend to use the 7 day package, then I believe you really need to compare the cost now vs. after August 1. I think you will find it quite beneficial to get them before 8/1. Cheers.


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## Saintsfanfl

5-night has been the default because over time you end up with more packages, and therefore more miles. It doesn’t mean much right now because if you only have the points for one or two, it’s the same miles whether you do cat 5 or 7. 

My situation is a little different because if I add another 21,000 points I can do five cat5 packages. Or I can sit tight and do three 6 and one 8. I’m leaning toward the five packages so I get another 120,000 miles and then deal with the mapping or converting later.


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## NiteMaire

Saintsfanfl said:


> I’m leaning toward the five packages so I get another 120,000 miles and then deal with the mapping or converting later.



That's what I would do.


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## TXTortoise

so dealing with the mapping would mean you would add points at the post-Aug rate to upgrade to Cat 6-7-8 as needed, maximizing miles now?


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## Steve A

I always buy the seven night packages since we use them to go to Europe and it doesn’t make any sense just to go for five nights.  I often add one or two nights using points.

 Our May 2019 trip to London will probably be the last time we use Marriott points to go on any major trip. I just don’t see how I can accumulate enough points. I’m considering getting rid of my Marriott and SPG credit cards and finding something  more useful. I might keep them though for the free nights.


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## TXTortoise

That’s what I am struggling with. I’d either use two 5-night packages for a ten day stay or a 7-night. Just wondering if buying the 5-night at this point provides more options, since I could add nights via MR points.


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## JanT

How many miles do the 5 night packages receive?



Saintsfanfl said:


> 5-night has been the default because over time you end up with more packages, and therefore more miles. It doesn’t mean much right now because if you only have the points for one or two, it’s the same miles whether you do cat 5 or 7.
> 
> My situation is a little different because if I add another 21,000 points I can do five cat5 packages. Or I can sit tight and do three 6 and one 8. I’m leaning toward the five packages so I get another 120,000 miles and then deal with the mapping or converting later.


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## TXTortoise

https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials

5-Night Travel Package Rewards for Marriott Vacation Club Owners

5 Nights in Hotel Category Airline Miles / Points 
Group 1 50,000 70,000 100,000 *120,000 *
Group 2 35,000 50,000 70,000 85,000 
Group 3 25,000 35,000 50,000 60,000 
*United Airlines*   55,000 77,000 110,000 *132,000*

1 - 5 165,000 185,000 215,000 235,000 
6 180,000 200,000 230,000 *250,000 *
7 200,000 220,000 250,000* 270,000 *
8 230,000 250,000 280,000 *300,000 *
9 275,000 295,000 325,000 345,000
(Effective 5/16/2013)


----------



## JanT

Thank you!



TXTortoise said:


> https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials
> 
> 5-Night Travel Package Rewards for Marriott Vacation Club Owners
> 
> 5 Nights in Hotel Category Airline Miles / Points
> Group 1 50,000 70,000 100,000 *120,000 *
> Group 2 35,000 50,000 70,000 85,000
> Group 3 25,000 35,000 50,000 60,000
> *United Airlines*   55,000 77,000 110,000 *132,000*
> 
> 1 - 5 165,000 185,000 215,000 235,000
> 6 180,000 200,000 230,000 *250,000 *
> 7 200,000 220,000 250,000* 270,000 *
> 8 230,000 250,000 280,000 *300,000 *
> 9 275,000 295,000 325,000 345,000
> (Effective 5/16/2013)


----------



## jewls

NiteMaire said:


> That's what I would do.


You can’t use the hotel certificates portion for timeshare, can you?  Just curious you mentioned the cove?


----------



## NiteMaire

jewls said:


> You can’t use the hotel certificates portion for timeshare, can you?  Just curious you mentioned the cove?


You can, but I've yet to find an MVC property with availability during the time I wanted. The ones I've looked at were Cat 8 with no openings...ever, or at least when I wanted.

Refresh my memory about the cove. It doesn't sound familiar to me.


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## jewls

Frenchmans Cove, st. Thomas


----------



## jewls

NiteMaire said:


> You can, but I've yet to find an MVC property with availability during the time I wanted. The ones I've looked at were Cat 8 with no openings...ever, or at least when I wanted.
> 
> Refresh my memory about the cove. It doesn't sound familiar to me.


I’ve never seen one available either.  That’s why I didn’t think they could be used.  Has anyone ever had any luck?


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## NiteMaire

jewls said:


> Frenchmans Cove, st. Thomas


I was able to get Frenchman's Cove on an instant exchange, not a certificate.  I'm sorry, but I don't remember my comment about using a certificate at MFC.  I'll edit this if it comes to mind.


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## skifast

We were able to get a nice 2-bedroom home at the MVC Village-D’ile-de-France resort outside of Paris (near Disneyland Paris) on a travel package. It was late March spring break, so certainly not high season for Paris. People were amazed that we got it.
Great trip, nice resort and location. 
Highly recommended!


----------



## billhall

I purchased several 7 day travel packages but added 2*5day 100k miles packages
 (215,000 each) to use up my last 430,000 MRP.  200k airline miles was better than just 120k miles with a single cat 5 7 day package at 270000 or 5 day at 235000.

Now to see what August brings for upgrades or hotel rules.


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## TXTortoise

Approach sounds appealing for miles, but thinking about holding back a few miles to upgrade category if necessary. My concern is I’m just not sure we would get much use of a cat 7 or less.


----------



## hpy2go

As this is the right community to think out loud, and get constructive feedback, I'm going to chime in a bit.  I have probably three different topics in this (long) post, but I'm not sure where else to post, so I'm starting here.  Sorry.

I did talk to a Customer Service representative late last week.  She was tremendously helpful and effective for the issue I called about, but she was also knowledgeable and practical when it came to advice about these changes.  I felt she was honest and open about what she knew, vice what she thought.  Here are my key takeaways from that conversation:

1) Yes, the value of points will be going down.
2) Marriott will be honoring reservations made with certificates before 8/1.  (She said 8/1, because she knows August but not the precise date).  Having the reservation is the only guarantee of value.
3) For the cat 1-5 certificate that I have, but intend to "upgrade" when I settle my plan, it is not clear what the upgrade will mean.  I'm better upgrading and making the reservation before that 8/1 date.  Only upgrading may not get what I want, points/value wise.
4) She wasn't 100% that there would be travel packages after 8/1 (although I see others have posted the tables with expected new values).

As others have said, this makes me wonder about the long term value of the MRP for travel packages.   

So, what to do?  I'm frustrated that I am too busy to sort through all these changes right now.  I've all but given up hope to get to Lifetime Platinum by 12/31.  (Although I'm not really sure of the value between the new Lifetime Platinum Elite [from my current Lifetime Gold] and the Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite [from a potential Lifetime Platinum by 12/31]).   I've found the travel packages to be a tremendous value to us.  We've flown to Hawaii for $44.20 (for 2) from the East Coast.  We've spent a week at the Mauna Kea Resort (due to great advice from fellow TUGGers).  My wife has made about a dozen Southwest flights on companion passes with me, including Cancun, Punta Cana, Aruba, San Antonio, multiple Denver/Colorado Springs, Las Vegas, etc.  (looking at weekends in New Orleans, Bahamas, Turks and Caicos).  We're using the heck out of that deal between now and the end of the year.   Here's where I welcome feedback and ideas. 

1) I have a 7-day cert that I've extended once.  I think I want to use it before the year ends (and the SWA companion pass), to complete our "Southwest Airlines Year".  It seems to me the sweet spot is to use that at a place that Southwest flies (free flight, free stay).  JW Marriott in Cabo seems the top choice right now, for 90K more points.  Other suggestions?   Maybe I should disconnect the certificate and the Companion pass in my thinking and consider different options.

2) With the rest of the points I currently have, I'm thinking that I may want to get another 7-day package and try for a week in Santorini at a Starwood property, followed by a week in Son Antem with my MVC points.  I have no idea if I can:

a) Use my MRP for a Starwood location on Santorini
b) How many points that would be (what category)
c) If I could get a reservation, at a time that it would work (weather, work, etc.)  Thinking next May or July-September.
d) I could sequence those two visits with availability.

If that could work out, I'm think about this itinerary: Fly to Athens (which airline is best to use for potential upgrades to Business???).  Spend a day there.  Fly or ferry to Santorini, spend a week.  Fly to somewhere that I could get to Mallorca - maybe spend a day there if that breaks up the trip nicely. Spend a week at Son Antem.  Return home, even if it means another stopover day (Barcelona is nice!  )

Any thoughts, fellow TUGGers?

Thanks in advance, and again, sorry for the long post.  Also sorry if this isn't the right topic.


----------



## Jwerking

Just booked three 7-night and two 5-night travel packages for a total of 1.16M MR points using both my account and hubby's account.  We have not booked a TP for probably 10 years.  Now booked for a 3 week trip in May 2019 to Moscow, St. Petersburg, and Brussels.  Will use American miles over and Alaskan air miles back with free stopover in Iceland for 7 days where we will rent AirBnb accommodations.  Will be a nice vacation even though unplanned - glad we are retired and have plenty of time.

Data Points:

1.  Called MVCI executive line:  Rep was NOT able to transfer MR points between the spousal accts.  I booked 4 TPs with her and made one 7-night award hotel reservation - however, the rep was NOT able to attach the hotel certificate to the reservation.  This rep admitted that she was new to booking TPs, so it could be possible she did not know to do some of the processes required. 

2.  Transferred by MVCI to Marriott Rewards and was on hold for only about 15 minutes - hooray!  The rep transferred MR points from hubby's acct to my account, booked the last TP, and made two 7-night award hotel reservations along with attaching the hotel certificates.  She also attached the hotel certificate to the award reservation previously made by the MVCI rep.

Questions:

1.  While I received email confirmations for all 3 TPs in my account, I only have 2 hotel certificates and 2 TPs deducted from my MR account ( I am missing one of the 7-night packages).  Should I give the system a few days to post all transactions to my account before calling the MR number to seek correction. 

2.  Upgrade to Executive Level Room with Lounge Access:  Have a 7-night award reservation at the Brussels Marriott Grand Palace (Cat 7) for an Executive Room - which requires more MR points (240K) than a deluxe room (210K).  The 7-night cat 7 hotel certificate was successfully attached to the reservation with no problem.  Will the hotel notice upon check-in and request additional points for the upgrade??  Will they provide us Lounge Access by switching the reservation to my MR number, since I have Gold status, upon check-in?


----------



## Jwerking

hpy2go said:


> 1) I have a 7-day cert that I've extended once. I think I want to use it before the year ends (and the SWA companion pass), to complete our "Southwest Airlines Year". It seems to me the sweet spot is to use that at a place that Southwest flies (free flight, free stay). JW Marriott in Cabo seems the top choice right now, for 90K more points. Other suggestions? Maybe I should disconnect the certificate and the Companion pass in my thinking and consider different options.



We liked Cabo San Lucas when we spent a month there in Jan/Feb a few yrs ago as we could easily wall into town from our timeshare and get some very reasonable authentic Mexican food.  However, the JW Marriott is located in St Jose del Cabo - which is about 30 miles from where we stayed.  So cannot speak to this part of Cabo.  It is hot there - so if you are visiting this year, I would suggest in Nov or Dec after the hurricane season is over and temps are milder.


----------



## ejp

I'd like some advise.  We only have about 350k points but would like to take advantage of the highest mileage to transfer (120k for Southwest), not sure which category hotel level I should buy - either 7 or 8, or 9.  We have no immediate plans for travel, we'd like to go to Australia/New Zealand or Barcelona/Madrid by taking a Collette tour.  Should I also try to purchase spg points and convert to get more points to then buy another package.  We are set to choose Southwest since my husband has many trips to go up the Northern California for football games this coming season.  Any comments would help clear my confusion.  THANKS


----------



## Saintsfanfl

ejp said:


> I'd like some advise.  We only have about 350k points but would like to take advantage of the highest mileage to transfer (120k for Southwest), not sure which category hotel level I should buy - either 7 or 8, or 9.  We have no immediate plans for travel, we'd like to go to Australia/New Zealand or Barcelona/Madrid by taking a Collette tour.  *Should I also try to purchase spg points and convert to get more points to then buy another package.*  We are set to choose Southwest since my husband has many trips to go up the Northern California for football games this coming season.  Any comments would help clear my confusion.  THANKS



I would if it is by the 20th so you get the 35% off. Otherwise I would book the cat 9 5-night package for 345,000.


----------



## ejp

Saintsfanfl said:


> I would if it is by the 20th so you get the 35% off. Otherwise I would book the cat 9 5-night package for 345,000.


Thanks, it'll be quick to purchase and then I'll see what I can get for the leftover points.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I found out the hard way that an account has to be active for 14 days before you can purchase points. My DW had an MR account but not SPG. It is too late for me to buy points on her account.


----------



## teach

JanT said:


> I see a lot of people are booking 5 night packages vs 7 night packages and the reference to it being a better value.  Can someone explain why the preference for 5 day?  Anywhere we typically would use the package we would go for 7 days but I'm just curious about the 5 night package being a better deal.


----------



## teach

I like the 5 night TP BUT TO GET Jetblue air miles I have to go with the 7 night TP, am I correct?


----------



## purduealum91

Yes, can someone please explain why a 5 night package is a better value than 7 nights?

Thanks, 

Tom


----------



## mjm1

purduealum91 said:


> Yes, can someone please explain why a 5 night package is a better value than 7 nights?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom



It really depends on how you want to use your points. For one, with the 5 night package you are taking advantage of redeeming points for 4 nights and getting the 5th night free. If you get the 7 night package, you still only get one night free. So, depending on how many points you have you may be able to get multiple 5 nights packages instead of one 7 nights package and have points left. The other is that we use them in hotel situations, so 5 nights has been plenty. 

I am sure others will weigh in as well.

Mike


----------



## winger

klpca said:


> t was going from a category 7 to a cate





jpa2825 said:


> Anyone consider buying a TP, booking a location you really think you want to go to before 8.1 and then trying to* just change the dates of the reservation to keep the 5 night certificate undisturbed? *
> 
> ...


Unsure if *this *were addressed, but my understanding is if you called in after 8/1/2018 to change the date of the existing reservation, new 8/1/2018 per night point rates apply.  In other words, if you booked (pre-8/1/2018) a hotel where redemption rates were increasing from 30k/night to 50k/night (on 8/1/2018), but on 8/1/2018 (or after) you called to change the date of the reservation, Marriott will charge you 50k/night.  In this example, I presume a reservation booked/paid with a *hotel certificate from a TP* will face a similar need to 'increase your 'payment' .


----------



## Luvtoride

teach said:


> I like the 5 night TP BUT TO GET Jetblue air miles I have to go with the 7 night TP, am I correct?



No that’s not correct.  You can get a 5 night TP in Cat 3 which is JetBlue for 60k JetBlue  Miles and say a Cat 7, 5 night certificate for 270k MRP.

All of this speculation on what happens after 8-1 is just that...Spec!  I have spoken to 3 diff reps on Marriott and MVC and none had any definitive answers to most of the questions posed here.   In fact there is uncertainty if the 5 night travel packages will even still be offered to MVC club members era after 8/1 as they have no pricing charts to even refer to for point costs. 

Good luck all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JanT

This is true AND the account has to be open for more than 30 days before points can be transferred.  I'm playing the waiting game right now.  Will just make the deadline.



Saintsfanfl said:


> I found out the hard way that an account has to be active for 14 days before you can purchase points. My DW had an MR account but not SPG. It is too late for me to buy points on her account.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

JanT said:


> This is true AND the account has to be open for more than 30 days before points can be transferred.  I'm playing the waiting game right now.  Will just make the deadline.



It is odd that the system will let you buy the points. It will let you pay with a credit card with the payment being confirmed. Then behind the scenes they cancel the order without batching the payment. Is it really that hard to prevent the order from taking place in the first place? Or was this a quick patchwork deal to prevent people from taking advantage of the value right before the deadline? That is probably it. I wonder if they had some people opening a large number of accounts and buying the max.


----------



## JanT

I agree with you.  Very strange that they will let it all go through but then do some kind of behind the scenes check.  In today's tech world it should be really easy to program the system to block anyone from purchasing/transferring points with new accounts.  Of course, then what would the person behind the scenes who was hired to reverse those purchases do for a job?  LoL

I'm sure tons of people opened accounts just for this purpose.  



Saintsfanfl said:


> It is odd that the system will let you buy the points. It will let you pay with a credit card with the payment being confirmed. Then behind the scenes they cancel the order without batching the payment. Is it really that hard to prevent the order from taking place in the first place? Or was this a quick patchwork deal to prevent people from taking advantage of the value right before the deadline? That is probably it. I wonder if they had some people opening a large number of accounts and buying the max.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

JanT said:


> I'm sure tons of people opened accounts just for this purpose.



I only wanted to open one, but not soon enough.


----------



## JanT

Sorry you missed out on that.  I almost did but managed to find the info soon enough.



Saintsfanfl said:


> I only wanted to open one, but not soon enough.


----------



## hpy2go

hpy2go said:


> As this is the right community to think out loud, and get constructive feedback, I'm going to chime in a bit.  I have probably three different topics in this (long) post, but I'm not sure where else to post, so I'm starting here.  Sorry.
> 
> I did talk to a Customer Service representative late last week.  She was tremendously helpful and effective for the issue I called about, but she was also knowledgeable and practical when it came to advice about these changes.  I felt she was honest and open about what she knew, vice what she thought.  Here are my key takeaways from that conversation:
> 
> 1) Yes, the value of points will be going down.
> 2) Marriott will be honoring reservations made with certificates before 8/1.  (She said 8/1, because she knows August but not the precise date).  Having the reservation is the only guarantee of value.
> 3) For the cat 1-5 certificate that I have, but intend to "upgrade" when I settle my plan, it is not clear what the upgrade will mean.  I'm better upgrading and making the reservation before that 8/1 date.  Only upgrading may not get what I want, points/value wise.
> 4) She wasn't 100% that there would be travel packages after 8/1 (although I see others have posted the tables with expected new values).
> 
> As others have said, this makes me wonder about the long term value of the MRP for travel packages.
> 
> So, what to do?  I'm frustrated that I am too busy to sort through all these changes right now.  I've all but given up hope to get to Lifetime Platinum by 12/31.  (Although I'm not really sure of the value between the new Lifetime Platinum Elite [from my current Lifetime Gold] and the Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite [from a potential Lifetime Platinum by 12/31]).   I've found the travel packages to be a tremendous value to us.  We've flown to Hawaii for $44.20 (for 2) from the East Coast.  We've spent a week at the Mauna Kea Resort (due to great advice from fellow TUGGers).  My wife has made about a dozen Southwest flights on companion passes with me, including Cancun, Punta Cana, Aruba, San Antonio, multiple Denver/Colorado Springs, Las Vegas, etc.  (looking at weekends in New Orleans, Bahamas, Turks and Caicos).  We're using the heck out of that deal between now and the end of the year.   Here's where I welcome feedback and ideas.
> 
> 1) I have a 7-day cert that I've extended once.  I think I want to use it before the year ends (and the SWA companion pass), to complete our "Southwest Airlines Year".  It seems to me the sweet spot is to use that at a place that Southwest flies (free flight, free stay).  JW Marriott in Cabo seems the top choice right now, for 90K more points.  Other suggestions?   Maybe I should disconnect the certificate and the Companion pass in my thinking and consider different options.
> 
> 2) With the rest of the points I currently have, I'm thinking that I may want to get another 7-day package and try for a week in Santorini at a Starwood property, followed by a week in Son Antem with my MVC points.  I have no idea if I can:
> 
> a) Use my MRP for a Starwood location on Santorini
> b) How many points that would be (what category)
> c) If I could get a reservation, at a time that it would work (weather, work, etc.)  Thinking next May or July-September.
> d) I could sequence those two visits with availability.
> 
> If that could work out, I'm think about this itinerary: Fly to Athens (which airline is best to use for potential upgrades to Business???).  Spend a day there.  Fly or ferry to Santorini, spend a week.  Fly to somewhere that I could get to Mallorca - maybe spend a day there if that breaks up the trip nicely. Spend a week at Son Antem.  Return home, even if it means another stopover day (Barcelona is nice!  )
> 
> Any thoughts, fellow TUGGers?
> 
> Thanks in advance, and again, sorry for the long post.  Also sorry if this isn't the right topic.



It seems fair to post an update, sharing information that might be of value to someone.

Booking on Santorini on a certificate is not possible.  Neither location participates in that "feature" of the program.  I won't say they laughed at me when I asked, but I wasn't sure that wasn't in the background.  I guess I was dreaming bigger than I thought.

Crete was an option that worked. I think a week in Crete will be a fantastic alternative.  The package put us in a position to fly back and forth in business class. 

I was able to sequence Crete and Son Antem, so that feels like a great use of points. 

Thanks to Saintsfanfl, I was able to grab the discounted SPG points to upgrade existing cert.    Now to finalize that destination.

Continued thanks, tuggers


----------



## Fairwinds

I don’t do the packages because I don’t want the airline miles, but I still get the five or seven night stays with one free night. This year I reserved two back to back 5 night stays in Costa Rica and after checking the new charts I saw that I need to call and rebook after changes take effect. If I remember correctly I’ll actually save ~ 20k points. Thanks TUG!


----------



## JanT

Deleted and put question on a different thread.


----------



## WBP

WJS said:


> I think you are spot on. I walked away from Marriott International's roll-out of their new brand loyalty program, and said that Mr. Fluek is a consummate Spin Meister, and I thought to myself, where there's smoke, there's fire.
> 
> I think Mr. Flueck could sell snow to eskimos, without any difficulty.
> 
> For MVCI Owners, I think the value proposition of exchanging a timeshare week for Marriott Rewards points (do you remember when a Travel Package was 200,000 Marriott Rewards points, and included an 8 day Hertz rental car?) is a thing of the past (under the terms of the August 2018 update/revision of the Marriott Rewards program). Fortunately, we can still enjoy great vacations at our Home Resort, and at other Marriott Vacation Club resorts, by exchanging from one Marriott Vacation Club resort to another, via Interval International.
> 
> SEE this 45 minute video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2095479260466710



SEE this (too):

http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/19965/The-history-and-evolution-of-hotel-loyalty


----------



## WBP

WJS said:


> I think you are spot on. I walked away from Marriott International's roll-out of their new brand loyalty program, and said that Mr. Fluek is a consummate Spin Meister, and I thought to myself, where there's smoke, there's fire.
> 
> I think Mr. Flueck could sell snow to eskimos, without any difficulty.
> 
> For MVCI Owners, I think the value proposition of exchanging a timeshare week for Marriott Rewards points (do you remember when a Travel Package was 200,000 Marriott Rewards points, and included an 8 day Hertz rental car?) is a thing of the past (under the terms of the August 2018 update/revision of the Marriott Rewards program). Fortunately, we can still enjoy great vacations at our Home Resort, and at other Marriott Vacation Club resorts, by exchanging from one Marriott Vacation Club resort to another, via Interval International.
> 
> SEE this 45 minute video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2095479260466710



SEE this (too):

http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/19965/The-history-and-evolution-of-hotel-loyalty


----------



## WBP

Superchief said:


> I've worked in Marketing research for the past 40+ years for medium and large corporations in various industries. In the early years, we were always trying to identify ways to make things better for our customers/ consumers in order to have a competitive edge. That changed 10-15 years ago to : how do we fool customers to make them pay more for less, and call it 'an enhancement'. That is why I am skeptical every time a corporation communicates how they 'listened to the customer to enhance the program. If you notice, they emphasize that more hotels went down in points than up. However, most of the decreases were for Courtyards and lower end properties, while there were significant increases (not including 'peak') for Autograph and other FS  premium brands, especially in prime locations.



I meant to respond to the brilliant post (quoted above), with this:

http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/19965/The-history-and-evolution-of-hotel-loyalty


----------



## kds4

Just bought 30k Starpoints at 35% off. Tomorrow is last day of promo. Get your discount until midnight on 7/20. Points posted instantly for me. Another 90k MRP transferred into my account. Total time spent, less than 5 minutes and all from my cell phone (while out of the country).


----------



## NJDave

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-rewards/1403715-marriott-travel-packages-266.html


The following is a post on Flyertalk from this morning regarding unattached certificates:

_Originally Posted by *Starwood Lurker* 

 
Any outstanding awards for certificates with a pre-defined category (like Chase or MegaBonus promotional certificates) will be converted to a commensurate value with the new award schedule. Other floater certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption.

If you are asking for an exact conversion amount, all we can tell you is we are currently reviewing how to handle existing travel package awards already in members' accounts that remain unattached. Members should make every effort to book and attach these certificates prior to our programs becoming one to maximize their usage as this may or may not be forthcoming before the programs merge.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts LLC_

spgchampion@starwoodhotels.com


----------



## Saintsfanfl

What are the opinions out there on unattached Marriott 5 or 7 night certificates for someone with no plans as of yet? Attach and cancel later or leave unattached? I am leaning towards attaching a cat 1-5 to a current cat 5(25,000) that is moving to a new cat 5(35,000) in the bizarre chance the cancellation results in a new cat 5 or a refund of 140,000 points. Any downside to it?


----------



## VacationForever

Saintsfanfl said:


> What are the opinions out there on unattached Marriott 5 or 7 night certificates for someone with no plans as of yet? Attach and cancel later or leave unattached? I am leaning towards attaching a cat 1-5 to a current cat 5(25,000) that is moving to a new cat 5(35,000) in the bizarre chance the cancellation results in a new cat 5 or a refund of 140,000 points. Any downside to it?


No downside to it... although I think it is just wishful thinking.  I am leaving my 2 unattached and just wait for the refund sometime after August.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

VacationForever said:


> No downside to it... although I think it is just wishful thinking.  I am leaving my 2 unattached and just wait for the refund sometime after August.



My problem is we do not know what the refund will be, not that attaching will change that.


----------



## VacationForever

Saintsfanfl said:


> My problem is we do not know what the refund will be, not that attaching will change that.


I agree but I got the miles that I wanted and any MRP refund is just gravy.


----------



## winger

NJDave said:


> https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-rewards/1403715-marriott-travel-packages-266.html
> 
> 
> The following is a post on Flyertalk from this morning regarding unattached certificates:
> 
> _Originally Posted by *Starwood Lurker*
> 
> 
> Any outstanding awards for certificates with a pre-defined category (like Chase or MegaBonus promotional certificates) will be converted to a commensurate value with the new award schedule. Other floater certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption.
> 
> If you are asking for an exact conversion amount, all we can tell you is we are currently reviewing how to handle existing travel package awards already in members' accounts that remain unattached. Members should make every effort to book and attach these certificates prior to our programs becoming one to maximize their usage as this may or may not be forthcoming before the programs merge.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> William R. Sanders
> Social Media Specialist
> Starwood Hotels & Resorts LLC_
> 
> spgchampion@starwoodhotels.com


I am not 100% sure how this is going to work.

First, I am assuming 'floater certificates' are hotel/stay certificates that come as part of a Marriott Air/Hotel Travel Package.

From the quote above:
_



			Other floater certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption.
		
Click to expand...

_
As an illustration - on 7/25/2018 a Marriott Rewards member purchases a Air/Hotel Travel Package and receives a 7-night Category 8 hotel certificate that expires in one year.  He has not cleared all reasonable hurdles yet (like approval from his boss, make childcare arrangements with relatives on the other coast, etc.) to be able to make a hotel reservation to attach the Cat 8 certificate to, so he leaves the hotel certificate sitting all alone in his Rewards account.  Come Aug 1, 2018, Marriott comes along and turns the Category 8 hotel certificate, easily worth at least *$1400* in stays) and something Marriott thinks is 'equivalent points' ???   What if the equivalent points does *not *even equate to more than two nights a higher end hotel equivalent to today's Category 8 ?   Marriott will have one PO'd Rewards customer, to say the least.  Marriott has just *taken *five (5) nights stay in a higher end hotel from him !

Maybe I am interpreting this wrong, but the words "_certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption."  _ makes it sound equivalent to today's world (pre-8/1/2018) where a Rewards member with an Air/Hotel Travel Package calls Marriott Rewards and asks to "cancel" his hotel/stay certificate, which which case a small amount of points, not even close to booking an equivalent 7-nights Category 8 hotel stay, would be 





> _credited to the member’s account for future redemption. _



However, if the Rewards member rather *keeps *the hotel/stay certificate, he retains rights to book a 7-night stay in a higher end (Category 8) hotel, for at least that full year.

Something does not sound right with the quote above from this *Starbook Lurker*.


----------



## jeff76543

For what it's worth, I just had an online chat with a Marriott Representative about a reservation with the hotel part of a 5 night travel package.  I asked her specifically whether after August 1 it would be possible to change the date of the reservation when it is attached to a hotel award certificate without losing the hotel certificate. She said that in such a case the hotel certificate would be reapplied to the new date. I asked her if this was a guarantee from Marriott and whether I could copy the chat and use it as a guarantee and she said that I could.


----------



## winger

jeff76543 said:


> For what it's worth, I just had an online chat with a Marriott Representative about a reservation with the hotel part of a 5 night travel package.  I asked her specifically whether after August 1 it would be possible to change the date of the reservation when it is attached to a hotel award certificate without losing the hotel certificate. She said that in such a case the hotel certificate would be reapplied to the new date. I asked her if this was a guarantee from Marriott and whether I could copy the chat and use it as a guarantee and she said that I could.


FWIW, when Hyatt underwent a devaluation last year, I had a room booked with points prior to the devalation.  After the devaluation, I called to make a date change (pushed it out one day) and was charged more points. Along the same line of thought, if a certificate were worth say Category 6 today (30k/night) and used to make a reservation before 8/1/2018, if making a date change after 8/1/2018 and if the point/night requirement has increased, I would think Marriott would want more points for the updated reservation.


----------



## jeff76543

@winger What you say makes more sense than what I was told by the Marriott representative - but, for what it's worth, I have it in writing (which may not be worth very much). The specific hotel I was looking at does not change it's point value, but I can't be sure whether she knew this.


----------



## dioxide45

winger said:


> I am not 100% sure how this is going to work.
> 
> First, I am assuming 'floater certificates' are hotel/stay certificates that come as part of a Marriott Air/Hotel Travel Package.
> 
> From the quote above:
> 
> 
> As an illustration - on 7/25/2018 a Marriott Rewards member purchases a Air/Hotel Travel Package and receives a 7-night Category 8 hotel certificate that expires in one year.  He has not cleared all reasonable hurdles yet (like approval from his boss, make childcare arrangements with relatives on the other coast, etc.) to be able to make a hotel reservation to attach the Cat 8 certificate to, so he leaves the hotel certificate sitting all alone in his Rewards account.  Come Aug 1, 2018, Marriott comes along and turns the Category 8 hotel certificate, easily worth at least *$1400* in stays) and something Marriott thinks is 'equivalent points' ???   What if the equivalent points does *not *even equate to more than two nights a higher end hotel equivalent to today's Category 8 ?   Marriott will have one PO'd Rewards customer, to say the least.  Marriott has just *taken *five (5) nights stay in a higher end hotel from him !
> 
> Maybe I am interpreting this wrong, but the words "_certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption."  _ makes it sound equivalent to today's world (pre-8/1/2018) where a Rewards member with an Air/Hotel Travel Package calls Marriott Rewards and asks to "cancel" his hotel/stay certificate, which which case a small amount of points, not even close to booking an equivalent 7-nights Category 8 hotel stay, would be
> 
> However, if the Rewards member rather *keeps *the hotel/stay certificate, he retains rights to book a 7-night stay in a higher end (Category 8) hotel, for at least that full year.
> 
> Something does not sound right with the quote above from this *Starbook Lurker*.


Perhaps equivalent number of points is # times the number of nights. So if it is a cat five, it is 30,000 per night currently. 30,000 times 5 is 150,000 points that they would convert it to. Somehow I doubt they will do that since it would mean someone could have got 120,000 air miles from a TP for only 80,000 MRP.


----------



## jeff76543

I find it strange that the *Starwood Lurker *has been the only hotel affiliated social media individual to give information about "floating certificates" and that no Marriott spokesman (for example the *Community Managers* on *Marriott Rewards Insiders*) have stated more than "no final decision has been made about the future status of the hotel portion of travel awards ... stay tuned". Could there be a different status for Starwood "floating certificates" after August 1 than for Marriott "floating certificates"? - or can anyone suggest a plausible reason for this strange situation.


----------



## VacationForever

dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps equivalent number of points is # times the number of nights. So if it is a cat five, it is 30,000 per night currently. 30,000 times 5 is 150,000 points that they would convert it to. Somehow I doubt they will do that since it would mean someone could have got 120,000 air miles from a TP for only 80,000 MRP.


I doubt they will do that either.  But if they were to do so, for Cat 1-5, it would be 25K (current cat 5 value) times 4, since 5th night is free, making it 100K MRPs, but still it will be quite deal to have gotten 120K air miles for 135K MRPs.


----------



## winger

VacationForever said:


> I doubt they will do that either.  But if they were to do so, for Cat 1-5, it would be 25K (current cat 5 value) times 4, since 5th night is free, making it 100K MRPs, but still it will be quite deal to have gotten 120K air miles for 135K MRPs.


So to make things more complex, what if one gets a TP today that comes with a 7 night Category 8 hotel certificate & attaches it to a Cat 8 hotel for July 2019, a hotel that were going UP in cost (MRPs/night) come 8/1/2018?  Then due to work, he cancels the hotel reservation in June 2019 AND needs to extend the expiration date. Under today's Program rules, this situation would yield an unused 7 night Category 8 hotel certificate expiring June 2020.  How will this situation be handled post Merger (8/1/2018) rules?

I wonder if Marriott has really thoroughly thought out all the possible scenarios and how members are 'kept whole'?


----------



## TXTortoise

I thought I had a final plan to book three Cat 1-5, one Cat 7 and one Cat 8, all 5 day to max FF miles, while hedging categories; now you guys have me revisiting doing all Cat 1-5 and just consider the TP as gravy as they will be unattached.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

winger said:


> So to make things more complex, what if one gets a TP today that comes with a 7 night Category 8 hotel certificate & attaches it to a Cat 8 hotel for July 2019, a hotel that were going UP in cost (MRPs/night) come 8/1/2018?  Then due to work, he cancels the hotel reservation in June 2019 AND needs to extend the expiration date. Under today's Program rules, this situation would yield an unused 7 night Category 8 hotel certificate expiring June 2020.  How will this situation be handled post Merger (8/1/2018) rules?
> 
> I wonder if Marriott has really thoroughly thought out all the possible scenarios and how members are 'kept whole'?



Trust me. They have certainly thought it through. They would not be changing the entire category structure without a plan to handle the existing reservations and certificates. There really aren’t that many scenarios. Attached or unattached. Old cat and new cat. Convert to new cat or refund points.


----------



## Jwerking

Thanks Tuggers for the heads up.  Just completed burning our 1.16 MR points by booking multiple TPS and made hotel reservations for Moscow, St Petersburg, and Brussels for May 2019 and German Xmas Market reservations for my two daughters for Dec 2018.  Booked our AA award seats to Moscow and waiting for our Alaska miles to post to book return flights.  While the May trip will be a nice trip, don't know if it worth the $$ of maintenance fees we paid to accumulate all those MR points as the Russia and German hotels booked are cheap.  But it is done!


----------



## winger

Saintsfanfl said:


> Trust me. They have certainly thought it through. They would not be changing the entire category structure without a plan to handle the existing reservations and certificates. There really aren’t that many scenarios. Attached or unattached. Old cat and new cat. Convert to new cat or refund points.


I came across this this morning.  It seems maybe Marriott/Starwood has not completed some of the finer details their plans, yet - practicing some plan-as-you-go.

From my various readings and conversation with two Marriott Loyalty Care reps last week when purchasing TP's, "_Floater certificates_" refer to unattached hotel stay certificates.

From   https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29995288-post3978.html

<The colored text and underlining is mine to highlight text.>



> Given this post from William this morning (10:55 CDT a.m. on July 20), it seems highly unlikely to me that floater TP certificates are going to be converted to anything other than points in the new program. Speculation about them be converted to other kinds of certificates seems to be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Starwood Lurker*
> 
> 
> Any outstanding awards for certificates with a pre-defined category (like Chase or MegaBonus promotional certificates) will be converted to a commensurate value with the new award schedule. Other floater certificates will be cancelled and converted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption.
> 
> If you are asking for an exact conversion amount, all we can tell you is we are *currently reviewing* how to handle existing travel package awards already in members' accounts that remain unattached. Members should make every effort to book and attach these certificates prior to our programs becoming one to maximize their usage as this may or may not be forthcoming before the programs merge.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> William R. Sanders
> Social Media Specialist
> Starwood Hotels & Resorts LLC
> 
> spgchampion@starwoodhotels.com
Click to expand...


----------



## Saintsfanfl

winger said:


> I came across this this morning.  It seems maybe Marriott/Starwood has not completed some of the finer details their plans, yet - practicing some plan-as-you-go.
> 
> From my various readings and conversation with two Marriott Loyalty Care reps last week when purchasing TP's, "_Floater certificates_" refer to unattached hotel stay certificates.
> 
> From   https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29995288-post3978.html
> 
> <The colored text and underlining is mine to highlight text.>



In other words, they don't know or won't say. Same story.


----------



## BigMac

yet another opinion on what might happen to travel packages from the *Frequent Miler *today.
*https://frequentmiler.boardingarea....xisting-marriott-travel-package-certificates/*


----------



## Fasttr

To attach or unattach....that is the question!!!!   Which tis nobler in the mind to suffer?


----------



## NiteMaire

VacationForever said:


> I agree but I got the miles that I wanted and any MRP refund is just gravy.


Exactly why I did the same...


----------



## jpa2825

BigMac said:


> yet another opinion on what might happen to travel packages from the *Frequent Miler *today.
> *https://frequentmiler.boardingarea....xisting-marriott-travel-package-certificates/*



60% is more optimistic than I would be. The factor they don't seem to take into account (or they took it into consideration but just don't think it means much) is that breaking 7 night stay certs into points makes redemption much easier / more likely. The circumstance where I need 7 straight nights at the SAME Cat5 hotel is much smaller than the ways I can use 150,000 MRPs! I can't see Marriott being generous and unlocking those handcuffs.

From the article, I think mapping to the new TP Categories is the way they will go because it doesn't unlock them. (Also, there will be so many moving parts that only the most dedicated folks are going to see the "gaps" they created.)

1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively. 
6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.


----------



## Superchief

I think the simplest solution for everyone is to 'grandfather' the TP hotel certificates to be used at the current category/point levels for hotels until the expiration date of the certificate. This would eliminate the complexity of TP MR assigned point values. This same policy could also be applied to the standard hotel certificates. The current point charts could be kept on the website for 1 year after the implementation of changes. Certificates would not be able to be extended. I think this would be a fair compromise and minimize complexity.

There really is no downside to attaching a certificate to a reservation, since it can always be cancelled or changed. This will lock in the current value of the certificate in case Marriott decides to be 'meanies' with their new policy.


----------



## StevenTing

I just prepaid some MF's to increase my balance so I can get another 5 night TP with 100k miles.  I'm contemplating prepaying another $3300 so that I can get the full 120k miles.

I'm currently at 172k points.  I should be closer to 215K once the transaction posts but now that I'm looking at my Marriott account, it looks like the points may not post until my statement closing date (the 20th).  I think I need to call MVC now to see if I can "borrow" points for the TP.


----------



## kds4

jpa2825 said:


> 60% is more optimistic than I would be. The factor they don't seem to take into account (or they took it into consideration but just don't think it means much) is that breaking 7 night stay certs into points makes redemption much easier / more likely. The circumstance where I need 7 straight nights at the SAME Cat5 hotel is much smaller than the ways I can use 150,000 MRPs! I can't see Marriott being generous and unlocking those handcuffs.
> 
> From the article, I think mapping to the new TP Categories is the way they will go because it doesn't unlock them. (Also, there will be so many moving parts that only the most dedicated folks are going to see the "gaps" they created.)
> 
> 1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively.
> 6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
> 8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
> 9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
> Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
> They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.



The best arbitrage option for me, applying the theorized data above, is to purchase 6 Category 6 packages. This will maximize my FF miles accrued as well as net me a 30k MRP "benefit" if the ACs map as described above. Dropping down and buying 6 Category 5 packages would only produce a savings of 90k points (which would not be enough to purchase a 7th TP). Purchasing Category 7 or higher TPs would result in a lesser amount of FF miles (even if it did produce a higher "benefit" amount based on ultimately mapping up). The FF miles are a 'known', the 5k-15k/nt. "benefits" remain an 'unknown'.


----------



## TXTortoise

With 1.1M MRPs I have a few Cat options, but essentially am limited to 4 TPs and the resulting FF miles.
I expect all will be unattached, unless I go with #4

1. 4x Cat 6
2. 2x Cat 5 & 2x Cat 7 
3. 3x Cat 5 & 1x Cat 8
4. 2x Cat 5 & 1x Cat 7 & *1x Cat 9 London*  (This requires a 35K transfer from URs and is only because I've thought about trying for a London Cat 9 next May)
     - Note it's taking over two days for a 10K UR transfer to move to Marriott. Still waiting.

With the exception of #4, the cost spread on these is less than 10K MRPs.

Using JPA's projection, and not attaching, it would seem the four Cat 6s offer the arbitrage, as KDS noted.  
Then I get the new Marriott card in Dec (Chase eligible) and hope I have 75K MRPs to upgrade the TPs trips, as needed, I suppose.
(How to split FF between AA and United is a whole other issue for me, unfortunately.)

JPA's Scenario...

1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively. 
6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.


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## kds4

TXTortoise said:


> With 1.1M MRPs I have a few Cat options, but essentially am limited to 4 TPs and the resulting FF miles.
> I expect all will be unattached, unless I go with #4
> 
> 1. 4x Cat 6
> 2. 2x Cat 5 & 2x Cat 7
> 3. 3x Cat 5 & 1x Cat 8
> 4. 2x Cat 5 & 1x Cat 7 & *1x Cat 9 London*  (This requires a 35K transfer from URs and is only because I've thought about trying for a London Cat 9 next May)
> - Note it's taking over two days for a 10K UR transfer to move to Marriott. Still waiting.
> 
> With the exception of #4, the cost spread on these is less than 10K MRPs.
> 
> Using JPA's projection, and not attaching, it would seem the four Cat 6s offer the arbitrage, as KDS noted.
> Then I get the new Marriott card in Dec (Chase eligible) and hope I have 75K MRPs to upgrade the TPs trips, as needed, I suppose.
> (How to split FF between AA and United is a whole other issue for me, unfortunately.)
> 
> JPA's Scenario...
> 
> 1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively.
> 6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
> 8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
> 9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
> Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
> They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.



Depending on which part of the travel package you value higher (FF miles or the Accommodation Certificates), you could consider ordering 5 of the 5 night Category 1-5 packages with 100k miles at 215k each for a total of 1,075,000 MRPs. This would produce 20k more FF miles overall (500k versus 480k from the 4 TPs - Not considering the 10% United bonus) as well as 5 additional nights based on the 5th AC.


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## jpa2825

I am still baffled by the # of people wanting to convert all / huge chunks of their MRPs into FF miles and 5 / 7 night certificates. I guess the theory is "I can continue to earn MRPs as I travel and spend $ on the credit cards beyond AUG 1, but (based on their announcement making TPs MUCH less attractive post 8-1) I can't get that "value" of FF miles and certs after 8.1." Additionally, if Frequent Miler is right, those unattached certs may come back to me in points after 8.1 anyway and I will have gotten a good / reasonable / acceptable conversion factor for my FF miles + those returned points.

I'm tapped out on my FF miles (sold 146k to my son for him to fly to Italy this summer at $.01 per mile [aren't I generous? - it was still well below what he could pay cash for the same flights]), so I'm thinking about getting a couple of TPs with about half of my current MRP balance.


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## winger

jpa2825 said:


> I am still baffled by the # of people wanting to convert all / huge chunks of their MRPs into FF miles and 5 / 7 night certificates. ....


 with yet another reevaluation looming, what reason would anyone NOT want to cash out now? This is not like an investment with a good history of increasing values (like real estate) where decreases in value are temporary and holding on is a good strategy. MRPs are a different animal, decreases are permanent, thus there is no long term reason to hord/hold these. MRPs are fast becoming pesos.


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## VacationForever

I have used up all my MRPs and SPG points to convert to travel packages.  I did not elect my Vistana and Marriott timeshare weeks for SPG/MRP for 2019 weeks as I normally do because I just don't see myself wanting to book anymore TP after August 2018.  My credit card spendings will continue to slowly generate more points but I don't have plans to book any additional Marriott/SPG hotels for the next 2 years beyond what I have already booked and attached and I still have 2 Cat1-5 floaters, which I am hoping that Marriott will cancel and return points to me.  I see significant devaluation of Marriott points wrt mileage redemption after August 2018.


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## jpa2825

winger said:


> with yet another reevaluation looming, what reason would anyone NOT want to cash out now? This is not like an investment with a good history of increasing values (like real estate) where decreases in value are temporary and holding on is a good strategy. MRPs are a different animal, decreases are permanent, thus there is no long term reason to hord/hold these. MRPs are fast becoming pesos.



My travel patterns currently are much more 1-3 nights in the same location rather than 5 nights, much less 7. As such, the flexibility of MRPs has a higher value than a forced 5 or 7 night stay in the same location. YMMV


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## TXTortoise

kds4 said:


> Depending on which part of the travel package you value higher (FF miles or the Accommodation Certificates), you could consider ordering 5 of the 5 night Category 1-5 packages with 100k miles at 215k each for a total of 1,075,000 MRPs. This would produce 20k more FF miles overall (500k versus 480k from the 4 TPs - Not considering the 10% United bonus) as well as 5 additional nights based on the 5th AC.



I'd look at a few variation of this, but just wasn't sure I wanted to move more UR points over to do more TPs...given the ambiguity of my travel plans.  I'm at 492FF miles, placing three with AA and one with United, where I have a 75K points banked.  Leaves me with about 360K with AA and 200K with UA.


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## uop1497

I have a 7 nights (category 8) certificate and plan to use at  KO Olina .  I read information about booking the hotel room using certificate, but not sure how it works . Can someone please advise the booking process. How can I attach the certificate to my award point booking. I was told my e-certificate is worth for 240K point which qualify the standard king bed room with mountain view. And I have a year to use before it is expired .

If someone know how to use the certificate, can you please share how the process works. I am confused in term of e-certificate and e-certificate upgrade. The room I have in mind is a 1 bedroom with full kitchen and it requires additional  35K  point (for an upgrade to this room). I have no problem to search for award night availability.   I do not know why I must order a e-certificate after I book my hotel reservation.

Here is my question:

a) If I do the booking now and can not keep my reservation, Will I able to change the date to a much later time (2019) with the same hotel without cancelling and re-book again  . There is no availability showing at Ko Olina in 2019 currently  . 

b) Is there any cancellation fee or  re-booking fee again using certificate. If I must cancel my hotel booking, can I do it online myself or I must contact Marriott award department. Does it cost a fee for obtaining the e-upgrade certificate / e-certificate. If so, how much 

c) I do a dummy booking, but Marriott website never asks me to choose whether I want to use Marriott point or an award certificate . Not sure why. And it seems if I log in my Marriott account, it will automatically book the room and display the total number of point for my stay. How can I prevent the system not to book the room with without asking me of the payment method. 

d) Does anyone know how long it takes for the mile to post in my airline mileage account. I read online , Marriott website states  said, take 6 weeks for the mile to show up.  is there any way to expedite it. 

It is very difficult to get an answer from Marriott over the phone. Waiting time is unbelievable long and my call was dropped why waiting to be transferred to the right department.  Please advise and thank you.


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## jtp1947

I will answer what I can and others can chime in with more information.  First, and most importantly, you must find out if Ko Olina has a room available for 7 nights for points. If so, and with the dates you want, make the reservation using points. Then call Marriott reservations and ask to have your certificate attached to the reservation you just made.  You can change the date but if the hotel requires more points after August 1, 2018 you will have to use more points. To cancel your certificate reservation you should call Marriott, there is no fee to cancel. I have used United and American airlines and the transfer usually takes one or 2 days. You can expedite for $15. I have read that Alaska airlines can take longer.


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## TXTortoise

FWIW, just got off the phone with MVCI. Got in with no hold, took about 15 minutes to book four 5-night packages.  Pretty painless...other than the 1M MRPs going away.

She said they can be cancelled and rebooked if I decide to change the mix before 1 August.

AA - 1-2 Weeks to see points
UA - 3 Days to see points


----------



## StevenTing

StevenTing said:


> I just prepaid some MF's to increase my balance so I can get another 5 night TP with 100k miles.  I'm contemplating prepaying another $3300 so that I can get the full 120k miles.
> 
> I'm currently at 172k points.  I should be closer to 215K once the transaction posts but now that I'm looking at my Marriott account, it looks like the points may not post until my statement closing date (the 20th).  I think I need to call MVC now to see if I can "borrow" points for the TP.



My plan was foiled.  Apparently points earned on the credit card only post at the statement closing date.  MVC says you have to have points in the account in order to book the package.  Hotel stays are different in that they can cancel the hotel stay but they can't claw back the miles in an package.  Make sense.

So, can anyone lend me 50,000 MRP?  I can send them back to you next month.  Send me a PM if you can.


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## VacationForever

StevenTing said:


> My plan was foiled.  Apparently points earned on the credit card only post at the statement closing date.  MVC says you have to have points in the account in order to book the package.  Hotel stays are different in that they can cancel the hotel stay but they can't claw back the miles in an package.  Make sense.
> 
> So, can anyone lend me 50,000 MRP?  I can send them back to you next month.  Send me a PM if you can.


Have you bought MRPs from Marriott yet? I bought 50K for $625 to make enough for a full 5 night TP.


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## StevenTing

VacationForever said:


> Have you bought MRPs from Marriott yet? I bought 50K for $625 to make enough for a full 5 night TP.



I have not.  I prefer not to purchase if I can.  I have 50,000 posting to my account on August 22, since that's my statement closing date.  I paid my MF's in advance hoping they'd post sooner.  I do have the option of converting some trust points over to MRP but I'd rather not do that as well.  If I have to pay any amount of money for the points, I might as well wait till after August 1 and pay the devalued rate.


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## VacationForever

StevenTing said:


> I have not.  I prefer not to purchase if I can.  I have 50,000 posting to my account on August 22, since that's my statement closing date.  I paid my MF's in advance hoping they'd post sooner.  I do have the option of converting some trust points over to MRP but I'd rather not do that as well.  If I have to pay any amount of money for the points, I might as well wait till after August 1 and pay the devalued rate.


Urgh... my Math tells me to pay now instead of waiting as the devaluation is significant.  What about SPG, did you buy any?


----------



## StevenTing

VacationForever said:


> Urgh... my Math tells me to pay now instead of waiting as the devaluation is significant.  What about SPG, did you buy any?


Nope.  Didn't buy any either.  I did just remember a reservation where I'm using 30,000 points.  Trying to have Marriott change that to the cash rate now since the cash rate also dropped by $100.  Apparently they need to contact the hotel directly since the room type is sold out.  That would put me closer.


----------



## winger

StevenTing said:


> I have not.  I prefer not to purchase if I can.  I have 50,000 posting to my account on August 22, since that's my statement closing date.  I paid my MF's in advance hoping they'd post sooner.  I do have the option of converting some trust points over to MRP but I'd rather not do that as well.  If I have to pay any amount of money for the points, I might as well wait till after August 1 and pay the devalued rate.


Is changing your credit card statement date to say July 28 am option? Just an idea...


----------



## StevenTing

winger said:


> Is changing your credit card statement date to say July 28 am option? Just an idea...



I tried that.  Any statement date change would move it forward.  So it would be August 28th.  I wish I would have thought of paying in advance last week.


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## l0410z

I am lifetime Gold and 100 nights away from platinum so I am peaked out on lifetime status when I move to platinum come year end.    I purchased 30,000 SPG  points discounted 35% to get add to my MRP.  i will  at 550,000.  i have one cat 5 certificate in my account and plan to get 2 travel packages before Aug 1 to spend my MRP.   If you were going to get any real value from MRP, it was to be found in travel packages.  Come Aug 1, travel packages are devalued 20% or more so I will spend it now and figure out how to use it later.     I figure I will lock in the miles no matter what.    Anyway I came across an interesting view titled

What will happen to existing Marriott Travel Package certificates?

Full article 
*https://frequentmiler.boardingarea....xisting-marriott-travel-package-certificates/*

*cut and past of interesting guess (and only a guess from someone I have no clue knows what he is talking about)*
*
My new estimate: 60%
By detailing various options Marriott has for dealing with existing un-booked travel certificates, I’ve concluded that exchanging the certificates for points makes a lot of sense.  Other options are unnecessarily complicated and/or will piss people off.  Merging multiple rewards programs is a huge task.  By simplifying this one part of it, Marriott would save themselves and their members lots of aggravation.
It’s possible, of course, that Marriott will return some other number of points than the numbers I suggested.  That would be simple too.  But if they offered less than the number required today to book a 7 night stay, they’re going to make us mad.  They don’t want us mad.
So, there you go.  My latest guesstimate is that travel package certificates that haven’t been used to book a stay will be converted to points as follows:
Category 1-5: 150,000 points
Category 6: 180,000 points
Category 7: 210,000 points
Category 8: 240,000 points
Category 9: 270,000 points
Ritz Tier 1-3: 300,000 points
Ritz Tier 4-5: 420,000 points

Questions answered, 60% guaranteed*
If we take as a given that travel packages will be converted to points as described above, we can answer the common questions we’ve been asked:
Q: What will happen to unused certificates when Marriott and SPG merge programs sometime in August?
A: They’ll become points!
Q: Which packages are the best to buy?
A: Always pick from the packages on the right side of the charts (the packages that return the most miles). Then, if the points-return really happens, your net cost will be 120,000 points regardless of which category package you buy now.  So, go for the category 1-5 certs so that you’ll have more points on hand for other uses in the meantime.  One exception: if you have a specific use in mind, go for a package that maps closest to the category that your hotel will be in after the merger (just in case the point-return option doesn’t happen).
Q: Should we upgrade or downgrade our existing packages before the merger?
A: Downgrade if that would give you enough points to buy another package. Otherwise, only upgrade or downgrade if you have a specific use in mind where upgrading or downgrading will get you closer to the package you’ll need.
Q: When is the deadline for buying the packages?
A: My guess is that they’ll stop selling packages on August 1 even if the new program isn’t introduced until later in the month (this guess is unrelated to the other guesses above and doesn’t have the 60% “guarantee”*)
* Despite the guarantee, readers are not entitled to recompense or apologies if/when Greg is proven 
*


----------



## Mr. Vker

August 18 is the official merger date for the programs. Looks like a few more weeks to think...

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/sta...-spg-marriott-programs-merge-august-18th.html


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## JanT

So, we have until August 18th to transfer points, etc.  Nice!



Mr. Vker said:


> August 18 is the official merger date for the programs. Looks like a few more weeks to think...
> 
> https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/sta...-spg-marriott-programs-merge-august-18th.html


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## ACP

Interesting Read.  I have received from Marriott (and Starwood) an email confirming some new dates, more interesting is an email from Head for Points which I've started in *Red  *below. It gives us a little more information and in particular maybe the way that Marriott are going with travel packages

I have put all the extracts from both article in *BOLD
*
E-mail from Marriott
*TODAY—AUGUST 17 
Maximize your redemption power. 
• Check out the Free Night Award Chart and decide if you want to redeem before or after the new rates take effect.  
• You can still transfer points between your Rewards and SPG® accounts through August 17. 

AUGUST 18 
One program goes live.* 
• Enjoy new benefits and new Elite status levels. 
• Redeem for stays with the new Free Night Award Chart. 
• Start earning points on all eligible hotel charges, including food, drinks, spa and more. 
First day to combine accounts. 
• Combine your Rewards and SPG accounts into one to add up your points and Elite-nights balances. Then you'll have one profile and one account going forward. 
*We are planning a temporary outage of our systems and sites on August 18 while we launch your new member experience. 
*
Email from HFP
_*In a separate email from "Head for Points" which we have in the UK about all things hotel, flight and credit card related: *_
*I spoke to David Flueck, the big cheese at Marriott Rewards (his business card says something more prosaic) yesterday.* *He filled me in on the timeline for the merger of the SPG and Marriott programmes.

The new combined programme will have 110 million members.   If the new scheme was a country, it would be the 12th biggest by population.

The new scheme name will not be revealed until January 2019.  Just to make life awkward for people like myself who need to write about it ….

From 18th August you will be able to formally merge your current Marriott Rewards and SPG accounts.  Once you have done, you will see a combined points balance and combined elite nights total when you log in to either website.

All SPG members will receive a new 9-digit account number that aligns with the specifications of the new system.  The new account number will appear through a pop-up when they log into their account. Passwords will stay the same unless you decide to change it. Some members of Marriott Rewards will also receive a new account number. These members will receive an email with their new account information.

What happens if you don’t trigger the merger? You end up with two accounts in the ‘new Marriott’ scheme.

I took the opportunity to ask David about the two key merger questions that I am always asked:

Is it now 100% certain that anyone who has Marriott Gold from a Starwood Gold match, and whose Starwood Gold came as a credit card perk, will be Gold and not Platinum in the new scheme?

Yes.

(If you are Marriott Gold because you earned it, you become Platinum in the new scheme.  Platinum in the new scheme is, in terms of benefits, the same as Gold in the old scheme.)

What will happen to existing Marriott Travel Packages which are not yet redeemed?

I did not get the answer that you may have wanted.  Travel Packages are well down the list of priorities at the moment.  Marriott will NOT be telling people before 18th August what will happen to their existing unused package.

David’s recommendation is to redeem now if you want to be certain of getting a specific hotel, but of course that is no use if you want what is currently a Starwood property.

If you are on the fence about getting a Travel Package, I can’t help you decide.  You won’t know before 18th August if you will get a better deal or not by waiting.

After 18th August, redemptions of existing Travel Package hotel certificates will be suspended.

David specifically said to me that Marriott is considering voiding all outstanding Travel Packages after 18th August and refunding the hotel part.

This may not happen.  It is possible that they find a way of mapping existing packages across to the new categories.  However, be aware that – after 18th August – you will not be able to book a hotel using an existing Travel Package certificate until they have made up their mind. You are at the mercy of Marriott as to whether they decide to reimburse your points (less the value of the airline miles you’ve already had) or find a way of letting you book a comparable hotel to the old category system.

For clarity, if you buy a Travel Package after 18th August based on the new pricing chart you won’t have any problems.  You can redeem that without issue.

Most people sitting on Travel Package certificates were hoping to redeem for Starwood hotels.  This may well not happen now and they will be disappointed.

But …. it is possible that some people may be happy to get a large part of the cost of their package refunded. I will look at why in a future article.  For the brave, there could be an interesting gamble here.
*
This new information has some interesting connotations and possibly what will happen to existing TP, maybe a refund of points, not sure what is meant by *After 18th August, redemptions of existing Travel Package hotel certificates will be suspended *I'm going back to the HFP guy to get a bit of clarity.  Using TP to book into Starwood may also  be a no go!!


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Another answer of "We don't know". 

Considering you have to call to use a certificate I am betting that using one after 8/18 will not really be suspended. For example if you want to use a cat5 to book into a 1-4 why wouldn't a supervisor do it? It has the same or less value. Some other categories I can understand not knowing what to do since the value desired might be greater. I still don't see how it is any different than right now when someone wants an upgrade.


----------



## hangloose

I'm hedging my bets...and booked my final TP last night with Marriott Rewards (figures it was right before the 8/18 announcement)....with a plan to attach all my outstanding certificates to a hotel prior to 8/18.   A 5 day Cat 8 with 120k AA FF miles.  I'm now at a piddly 10k MR Pts, my lowest point in a long time.   

The lack of answer from Marriott on how they will manage TPs makes me nervous.  It is likely because this will be a controversial answer, either benefiting MR Pts owners or Marriott themselves.  My guess.....from a historical business perspective.....is benefit leans to Marriott.  Appears less risky to me to book and attach TP now to a reservation at a known MR TP price point....vs risk being returned a small # of MR Pts that don't go nearly as far after 8/18 since MR Pts needs increase quite a lot.

My 2 cents.


----------



## jd2601

Any idea how best to get in touch with Marriott?  I want to book a Travel Package with a previous reservation I have made.  Online does not seem to have this as an option.  I was on hold on the Platinum Premiere line 40 minutes last night.  Today past the 30 minute mark? 

I hope Marriott figures this out.


----------



## kds4

jd2601 said:


> Any idea how best to get in touch with Marriott?  I want to book a Travel Package with a previous reservation I have made.  Online does not seem to have this as an option.  I was on hold on the Platinum Premiere line 40 minutes last night.  Today past the 30 minute mark?
> 
> I hope Marriott figures this out.



If you are an MVCI owner, I would contact MVCI Owner Services to book the travel package. As you found out, the lines are long calling Marriott Hotels to do it.


----------



## kds4




----------



## jd2601

I did get through on the regular Marriott number not the Platinum Premier Line.  It seems like they are not supporting their elite lines.


----------



## Superchief

hangloose said:


> I'm hedging my bets...and booked my final TP last night with Marriott Rewards (figures it was right before the 8/18 announcement)....with a plan to attach all my outstanding certificates to a hotel prior to 8/18.   A 5 day Cat 8 with 120k AA FF miles.  I'm now at a piddly 10k MR Pts, my lowest point in a long time.
> 
> The lack of answer from Marriott on how they will manage TPs makes me nervous.  It is likely because this will be a controversial answer, either benefiting MR Pts owners or Marriott themselves.  My guess.....from a historical business perspective.....is benefit leans to Marriott.  *Appears less risky to me to book and attach TP now to a reservation at a known MR TP price point....vs risk being returned a small # of MR Pts that don't go nearly as far after 8/18 since MR Pts needs increase quite a lot.*
> 
> My 2 cents.


I agree. There is also a great risk that Marriott will only return the assigned value for the hotel portion of the TP for unused certificates. This would be substantially lower than the redemption value. You might only get 45k points back for a 5 night Cat 7 certificate because that is the value assigned by Marriott after the airline miles are subtracted.

You can always cancel the reservation later if Marriott's policy is fair/generous regarding the unused certificates.


----------



## hangloose

kds4 said:


> If you are an MVCI owner, I would contact MVCI Owner Services to book the travel package. As you found out, the lines are long calling Marriott Hotels to do it.



MVCI owner line twice this month....passed me to Marriott Rewards...to order the 5 night VPs.  Perhaps I just got the wrong associate who wasn't familiar or aware they could order?

Can the MVCI owner line make Marriott hotel reservations for you by linking a hotel certificate?   Or will they also pass to Marriott reservations line?


----------



## kds4

Good question. I would assume that since you can redeem the 5 night TPs through MVCI, that if you had a hotel in mind to attach the AC to when you called to redeem the TP, they could do it. However, I don't know that for certain. Seems inefficient to be able to redeem the package from one source, but have to be transferred to another to actually make a reservation and attach the AC portion of the TP you just redeemed.


----------



## dima

hangloose said:


> MVCI owner line twice this month....passed me to Marriott Rewards...to order the 5 night VPs.  Perhaps I just got the wrong associate who wasn't familiar or aware they could order?
> 
> Can the MVCI owner line make Marriott hotel reservations for you by linking a hotel certificate?   Or will they also pass to Marriott reservations line?


Yes, they can do 5 nights packages. I just booked it by calling MVCI.


Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk


----------



## winger

l0410z said:


> I am lifetime Gold and 100 nights away from platinum so I am peaked out on lifetime status when I move to platinum come year end.    I purchased 30,000 SPG  points discounted 35% to get add to my MRP.  i will  at 550,000.  i have one cat 5 certificate in my account and plan to get 2 travel packages before Aug 1 to spend my MRP.   If you were going to get any real value from MRP, it was to be found in travel packages.  Come Aug 1, travel packages are devalued 20% or more so I will spend it now and figure out how to use it later.     I figure I will lock in the miles no matter what.    Anyway I came across an interesting view titled
> 
> What will happen to existing Marriott Travel Package certificates?
> 
> Full article
> *https://frequentmiler.boardingarea....xisting-marriott-travel-package-certificates/*
> 
> *cut and past of interesting guess (and only a guess from someone I have no clue knows what he is talking about)*
> 
> ...


FrequentMiler is well known to provide very detailed analysis of the value various reward programs (like air miles, hotel points, etc) give to members. His statement on the probability Marriott will do this or do that is simply a guess, but it is based on his experience following and analysing reward programs over the years.


----------



## StevenTing

So this new date thing is messing with my mind.  In short, do I now have until 8/17/2018 to get my travel package?  For some reason I thought we had to do it before 8/1.  Or maybe we all implied 8/1 because they used the words, "Beginning in August..."    Was 8/1 ever a set date or did we all just assume?

With all that's been discussed, do I book a 1-5 TP or a Cat 6 TP?  15K point difference, where I'm still lacking the 15K points.  But if I have until 8/17, that gives me more time to reduce the gap.


----------



## l0410z

ACP said:


> *
> After 18th August, redemptions of existing Travel Package hotel certificates will be suspended.
> 
> David specifically said to me that Marriott is considering voiding all outstanding Travel Packages after 18th August and refunding the hotel part.
> 
> This may not happen. It is possible that they find a way of mapping existing packages across to the new categories. However, be aware that – after 18th August – you will not be able to book a hotel using an existing Travel Package certificate until they have made up their mind. You are at the mercy of Marriott as to whether they decide to reimburse your points (less the value of the airline miles you’ve already had) or find a way of letting you book a comparable hotel to the old category system.
> *



There are only three choices.  .

*Option 1*  - an opinion I read and posted above
So, there you go. My latest guesstimate is that travel package certificates that haven’t been used to book a stay will be converted to points as follows:
Category 1-5: 150,000 points
Category 6: 180,000 points
Category 7: 210,000 points
Category 8: 240,000 points
Category 9: 270,000 points
Ritz Tier 1-3: 300,000 points
Ritz Tier 4-5: 420,000 points

*Option 2* as mentioned above
It is possible that they find a way of mapping existing packages across to the new categories.

*Option 3*
Reimburse the points minus the airline miles which I believe will get me 10K points for a 5 day  cat 5.
*
*
I have been a rewards member since 1994.  Devaluation benefits Marriott moving forward but Marriot is relatively fair in transition.  When Marriott purchased Starwoods,  elite status of one moved to the other.  The transition to one membership program was very fair for lifetime elite status members and yearly status members.  All benefits are preserved and for some even increased.  * 


So what to do and what will happen?  - the million dollar questions  *
I have in my account three three 5 night packages.  One (a cat 5) which is a hold over from the 2017 Southwest TP.  The rep extended this until 7/26/19.   2 TP's were purchased today for a 5 night Cat 6 (250k MRP)   and Cat 7 (270K MRP) packages at 120K FF miles each.  Both Cats expire on 7/26/19.   I have only 32K points left in my account and I suspect based on the new cost of the travel packages, it will  be a long time before I get another.  *I am all in for option 1 or 2 and have no plans on booking the certificates because I can't plan that far out anyway.  *

*Option 1*
Short term the most costly to Marriott but keeps in line with protecting past benefits.

*Option 2 *
It costs Marriott nothing more and covers incremental points for the new categories

*Option 3   *
This is in Marriott's own interest only and hurts current certificate holders.  Doesn't sound like a smart move for a loyalty rewards program but you never know.  If this happens I will not be a happy camper but I look at it this way.  In the new program,  just looking at FF miles, 3 MRP's get you 1 FF mile.  at 60K MRP, Marriott gives you 15K MRP so you get 25K FF Miles for 60K MRP.  Doing the math in the new world, 125K FF Miles now will cost 300K MRP (60K times 5) will get you 125K FF miles)  so 120k FF miles for 240K MRP is the booby prize for guessing the wrong.   

I am not an accountant but MRP has value and all the MRP's in all the accounts have to show up as some line item liability on Marriott's financials.  Keeping everyone in the dark is a great way cause people to spend their MRP's.  It worked on me. I went from 552K to 32K.


----------



## jeepie

hangloose said:


> MVCI owner line twice this month....passed me to Marriott Rewards...to order the 5 night VPs.  Perhaps I just got the wrong associate who wasn't familiar or aware they could order?
> 
> Can the MVCI owner line make Marriott hotel reservations for you by linking a hotel certificate?   Or will they also pass to Marriott reservations line?


Yes, I just did it Tuesday, while I was also buying a few TPs. The rep actually offered to book the hotel before processing the TP. She was experienced (possibly because I call the “Chairman’s” line?). If you try it and don’t succeed, I suggest HUCA. Good luck.


----------



## Carlsbadguy

It took me 3 calls to the vacation club number to get through to the correct person to handle it right away.  First, 2 calls kept getting transferred.


----------



## Safti

StevenTing said:


> So this new date thing is messing with my mind.  In short, do I now have until 8/17/2018 to get my travel package?  For some reason I thought we had to do it before 8/1.  Or maybe we all implied 8/1 because they used the words, "Beginning in August..."    Was 8/1 ever a set date or did we all just assume?
> 
> With all that's been discussed, do I book a 1-5 TP or a Cat 6 TP?  15K point difference, where I'm still lacking the 15K points.  But if I have until 8/17, that gives me more time to reduce the gap.


I believe that everyone assumed 8/1 was the set date. There was never any documentation of that being the exact date. I noticed this back in April after the first announcement and when I mentioned this to a GM, he said that he thought this was in anticipation of a possible law suit.


----------



## winger

StevenTing said:


> So this new date thing is messing with my mind.  In short, do I now have until 8/17/2018 to get my travel package?  For some reason I thought we had to do it before 8/1.  Or maybe we all implied 8/1 because they used the words, "Beginning in August..."    Was 8/1 ever a set date or did we all just assume?
> 
> ....


I always had the understanding that Marriott had not made up its mind on the date, but it was sometime in August.  That said, I used the 8/1/2018 date because that is technically the earliest date Marriott could pull the switch on the merge so all planning had to be based on that date.


----------



## dsmrp

*Is it now 100% certain that anyone who has Marriott Gold from a Starwood Gold match, and whose Starwood Gold came as a credit card perk, will be Gold and not Platinum in the new scheme?
Yes.
(If you are Marriott Gold because you earned it, you become Platinum in the new scheme. Platinum in the new scheme is, in terms of benefits, the same as Gold in the old scheme.)*

I apologize that I missed this, but if I'm Marriott Gold because I bought a developer Starwood/Vistana timeshare, will I stay Gold in the new scheme?
Thx!


----------



## dioxide45

dsmrp said:


> I apologize that I missed this, but if I'm Marriott Gold because I bought a developer Starwood/Vistana timeshare, will I stay Gold in the new scheme?


Correct, you would be gold under the new program.


----------



## Pocky87

I had 570k points. So here's what I did:

300k: 5 Nights Cat 8 with Osaka Marriott and Alaska Miles 120K
270k: 5 Nights Cat 7 (unused) and Alaska Miles 120K

I kind of think Cat 7 seem to be safe since the new Cat 5 is of 35,000 per night as well similar to the current Cat 7 certificates.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

I am certain that all the documentation stated 8/1 previously. All they did was change the dates on the links and sent out a new email.


----------



## kds4

Pocky87 said:


> I had 570k points. So here's what I did:
> 
> 300k: 5 Nights Cat 8 with Osaka Marriott and Alaska Miles 120K
> 270k: 5 Nights Cat 7 (unused) and Alaska Miles 120K
> 
> I kind of think Cat 7 seem to be safe since the new Cat 5 is of 35,000 per night as well similar to the current Cat 7 certificates.



I have seen many folks who put their TP mileage with Alaska Airlines. I notice that they are partners with one of the main carriers we tend to fly - American, as well as others I would consider like Singapore and Qantas. What has been your experience using Alaska miles on award codeshare flights on partner airlines? Just curious in case I were to use some of my TP mileage for Alaska Airlines as opposed to direct depositing it into American.


----------



## tompk

So it appears now that August 3rd is the last day to do anything with current travel packages as there will be a period of dormancy after that as they go through the merger process.


----------



## VacationForever

tompk said:


> So it appears now that August 3rd is the last day to do anything with current travel packages as there will be a period of dormancy after that as they go through the merger process.


Where did you pick that up?


----------



## tompk

It's all over the travel bloggers site, 8/3 or 8/4.....https://onemileatatime.boardingarea...7.1252270552.1532699966-1808077479.1518796305


----------



## Saintsfanfl

tompk said:


> It's all over the travel bloggers site, 8/3 or 8/4.....https://onemileatatime.boardingarea...7.1252270552.1532699966-1808077479.1518796305



That link has been updated to state that the information is in error and there is no such deadline.


----------



## VacationForever

Fake news?!


----------



## mjm1

kds4 said:


> I have seen many folks who put their TP mileage with Alaska Airlines. I notice that they are partners with one of the main carriers we tend to fly - American, as well as others I would consider like Singapore and Qantas. What has been your experience using Alaska miles on award codeshare flights on partner airlines? Just curious in case I were to use some of my TP mileage for Alaska Airlines as opposed to direct depositing it into American.



We have deposited our miles from TPs only to Alaska several times over the years. It has worked quite well for us. In fact, we leave on Aug 5 for Europe flying business class on Air France. A couple of notes:

- Air France is no longer a partner. We booked our flight before the partnership ended.
- We flew business on AA from Las Vegas to Dublin Ireland via Chicago two years ago. Long layover in Chicago, but we spent the day in Chicago to take advantage of the opportunity.
- We flew business to Sydney on Qantas several years ago and loved it. However, I noticed while planning a trip to Sydney for next year that their flights don’t show up on Alaska’s system until several months after the 330 day mark before a flight. And even then I only saw Premium Economy. As a result, we opted to fly Fiji Air next May to Sydney with a few hour layover in Fiji. And even there we got the only two business class seats available.
- We flew business class British Air on our return from Spain, via London Heathrow, and will do same next month when we return home from Rome. The taxes and fees are ridiculous flying through London, but that was our best option.
- We have been spoiled by flying business class on our long haul international flights, which will end after we burn through our miles and MRPs, but I did notice that there are a lot of flight options if one wants to fly coach.

I hope this helps. 

Best regards.

Mike


----------



## kds4

mjm1 said:


> We have deposited our miles from TPs only to Alaska several times over the years. It has worked quite well for us. In fact, we leave on Aug 5 for Europe flying business class on Air France. A couple of notes:
> 
> - Air France is no longer a partner. We booked our flight before the partnership ended.
> - We flew business on AA from Las Vegas to Dublin Ireland via Chicago two years ago. Long layover in Chicago, but we spent the day in Chicago to take advantage of the opportunity.
> - We flew business to Sydney on Qantas several years ago and loved it. However, I noticed while planning a trip to Sydney for next year that their flights don’t show up on Alaska’s system until several months after the 330 day mark before a flight. And even then I only saw Premium Economy. As a result, we opted to fly Fiji Air next May to Sydney with a few hour layover in Fiji. And even there we got the only two business class seats available.
> - We flew business class British Air on our return from Spain, via London Heathrow, and will do same next month when we return home from Rome. The taxes and fees are ridiculous flying through London, but that was our best option.
> - We have been spoiled by flying business class on our long haul international flights, which will end after we burn through our miles and MRPs, but I did notice that there are a lot of flight options if one wants to fly coach.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike



That's great info. I know that both AA and UA have flights to Sydney for as low as 40k/pp each way. Do you recall what Premium Economy was costing on Qantas? I would prefer that or Business for such a long flight.


----------



## mjm1

kds4 said:


> That's great info. I know that both AA and UA have flights to Sydney for as low as 40k/pp each way. Do you recall what Premium Economy was costing on Qantas? I would prefer that or Business for such a long flight.



As I recall they cost 47,500 miles plus a small amount of tax. I agree with you and considered waiting a few months to see what would be available in Premium Economy as it would be a direct flight from LA to Sydney. But we opted to grab the Fiji Business class for 55,000 miles.

Mike


----------



## dsmrp

StevenTing said:


> So this new date thing is messing with my mind.  In short, do I now have until 8/17/2018 to get my travel package?  For some reason I thought we had to do it before 8/1.  Or maybe we all implied 8/1 because they used the words, "Beginning in August..."    Was 8/1 ever a set date or did we all just assume?



Ok I admit I'm being a doubting Thomas 
So we know that Aug 18 is when the programs officially combine, and Aug 17 is the recommended due by date to assign hotel certs (from TP) to a hotel reservation.  But couldn't Marriott Rewards decide to stop selling the 5 day travel packages earlier than Aug 18  ??

I want to buy a cat 1-5 pkg but need 35K more MRPs.  I'd really like to use the 100K pt bonus will be getting from Chase Marriott credit card, but Chase says I/DH won't get it any earlier than August 10.  To play it safe till Aug 1, I'd have to buy (spg) points for about $400.  Or take a calculated risk that I can still buy pkg at old pricing by Aug 17.  I already spent close to $700 for SPG points to help fulfill the credit card bonus spend.  So have an out of pocket outlay of $1100 to get 120K airline miles. Yes, can't buy those airline miles for that price, but I'm still kinda on the fence.

How confident is everyone that Marriott will continue to sell the current packages until Aug 17?
TIA


----------



## Pocky87

kds4 said:


> I have seen many folks who put their TP mileage with Alaska Airlines. I notice that they are partners with one of the main carriers we tend to fly - American, as well as others I would consider like Singapore and Qantas. What has been your experience using Alaska miles on award codeshare flights on partner airlines? Just curious in case I were to use some of my TP mileage for Alaska Airlines as opposed to direct depositing it into American.



SIN-HND-TPE via JAL only required 25k miles and I've managed to redeem for both my parents and myself.
What's more you can fly to Asia via Cathay Pacific for only 70k on First class or 50k on Business Class

Awaiting for 

That's way more worth it compared to AA redemption!


----------



## dioxide45

Since Marriott Vacation Club hasn't mentioned how or if 5 night packages will live on, I will speculate. It is what I do best. If they do live on, I think the following will be the costs;


Category.........5 Nights.............5 Nights
.................+ 50,000 Miles...+ 100,000 Miles

Category 1-4....200,000.............270,000

Category 5.......230,000.............300,000

Category 6.......260,000.............330,000

Category 7.......290,000.............360,000

Category 8.......320,000.............390,000

This is based on the past history of how the five night packages came in to existence. When Marriott Rewards did a huge devaluation in 2010 or 2011, they took the existing points costs of the seven night packages and made them in to five night packages. However, I suspect they will simply silently kill the five night packages without a word mentioned.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

You are only stepping up 30,000 for each cat. Since the categories are now compressed, the steps for the higher ones will be much larger. For example the new price for a cat 1-4 50,000 mile 7-night package is exactly 27.5% higher (255,000) than the existing price(200,000). The price for a cat 8 is a whopping 675,000 points. New cat 8 is really existing tier 4-5. I think the 5-night will be no lower than 600,000 for 50,000 miles.


----------



## Quilter

Am I right in believing that attaching a reservation to a certificate has to fall between today and next July?


----------



## jewls

OMG!  What number is everyone calling to get the packages.  I’ve been on hold for 45 min.  Spoke to someone last night who had no idea how to do it.  She’s playing phone tag with a supervisor & myself.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

jewls said:


> OMG!  What number is everyone calling to get the packages.  I’ve been on hold for 45 min.  Spoke to someone last night who had no idea how to do it.  She’s playing phone tag with a supervisor & myself.



Call MVCI. Do not call marriott reservations or customer service.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Quilter said:


> Am I right in believing that attaching a reservation to a certificate has to fall between today and next July?



It has to be within the expiration of the certificate and within the open reservation windows. Right now July 13 is the farthest you can do for a hotel reservation.


----------



## ACP

Quilter said:


> Am I right in believing that attaching a reservation to a certificate has to fall between today and next July?


Thats the $64 million ??
At the moment, we have been able to extend up to a further year from the time you make the request.  As an example if your had a Cert that was due to expire in Feb 19, if you called in Oct 18, they would usually extend for 1 year from Oct i.e. until Oct 19, however this was never written anywhere and dealt with on a case by case basis, the same way as being able to upgrade the category of hotel with additional points.

Hopefully this is going to continue, not sure anybody know, not even Marriott - not sure it will be a big deal for them going forward as TP will be very expensive to purchase so less of an issue for Marriott


----------



## dansimms

l0410z said:


> I am lifetime Gold and 100 nights away from platinum so I am peaked out on lifetime status when I move to platinum come year end.    I purchased 30,000 SPG  points discounted 35% to get add to my MRP.  i will  at 550,000.  i have one cat 5 certificate in my account and plan to get 2 travel packages before Aug 1 to spend my MRP.   If you were going to get any real value from MRP, it was to be found in travel packages.  Come Aug 1, travel packages are devalued 20% or more so I will spend it now and figure out how to use it later.     I figure I will lock in the miles no matter what.    Anyway I came across an interesting view titled
> 
> What will happen to existing Marriott Travel Package certificates?
> 
> Full article
> *https://frequentmiler.boardingarea....xisting-marriott-travel-package-certificates/*
> 
> *cut and past of interesting guess (and only a guess from someone I have no clue knows what he is talking about)*
> 
> *My new estimate: 60%*
> *By detailing various options Marriott has for dealing with existing un-booked travel certificates, I’ve concluded that exchanging the certificates for points makes a lot of sense.  Other options are unnecessarily complicated and/or will piss people off.  Merging multiple rewards programs is a huge task.  By simplifying this one part of it, Marriott would save themselves and their members lots of aggravation.*
> *It’s possible, of course, that Marriott will return some other number of points than the numbers I suggested.  That would be simple too.  But if they offered less than the number required today to book a 7 night stay, they’re going to make us mad.  They don’t want us mad.*
> *So, there you go.  My latest guesstimate is that travel package certificates that haven’t been used to book a stay will be converted to points as follows:*
> *Category 1-5: 150,000 points*
> *Category 6: 180,000 points*
> *Category 7: 210,000 points*
> *Category 8: 240,000 points*
> *Category 9: 270,000 points*
> *Ritz Tier 1-3: 300,000 points*
> *Ritz Tier 4-5: 420,000 points*
> 
> *Questions answered, 60% guaranteed**
> *If we take as a given that travel packages will be converted to points as described above, we can answer the common questions we’ve been asked:*
> *Q: What will happen to unused certificates when Marriott and SPG merge programs sometime in August?*
> *A: They’ll become points!*
> *Q: Which packages are the best to buy?*
> *A: Always pick from the packages on the right side of the charts (the packages that return the most miles). Then, if the points-return really happens, your net cost will be 120,000 points regardless of which category package you buy now.  So, go for the category 1-5 certs so that you’ll have more points on hand for other uses in the meantime.  One exception: if you have a specific use in mind, go for a package that maps closest to the category that your hotel will be in after the merger (just in case the point-return option doesn’t happen).*
> *Q: Should we upgrade or downgrade our existing packages before the merger?*
> *A: Downgrade if that would give you enough points to buy another package. Otherwise, only upgrade or downgrade if you have a specific use in mind where upgrading or downgrading will get you closer to the package you’ll need.*
> *Q: When is the deadline for buying the packages?*
> *A: My guess is that they’ll stop selling packages on August 1 even if the new program isn’t introduced until later in the month (this guess is unrelated to the other guesses above and doesn’t have the 60% “guarantee”*)*
> ** Despite the guarantee, readers are not entitled to recompense or apologies if/when Greg is proven *


----------



## dansimms

Can someone tell me how many points it would require for a 5 night stay at a category 1-5 plus 2 coach airfares from NY to Aruba ? It would be during the Easter Break if that matters. Thanks !


----------



## MabelP

Where can I find the five night travel package chart. I am a Marriott timeshare owner. Thank you.


----------



## VacationForever

MabelP said:


> Where can I find the five night travel package chart. I am a Marriott timeshare owner. Thank you.


https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials

It requires a MVCI login.


----------



## MabelP

Thank you so much...worked like a charm!


----------



## pwrshift

I have two seven night category nine certificates I was worried about and spoke to a rep who said they will be good in the new system for up to their highest level category but must be extended before the expiry dates each year.  Big relief.


----------



## VacationForever

MabelP said:


> Thank you so much...worked like a charm!


----------



## dioxide45

pwrshift said:


> I have two seven night category nine certificates I was worried about and spoke to a rep who said they will be good in the new system for up to their highest level category but must be extended before the expiry dates each year.  Big relief.


Not sure I would rely on a frontline rep for 100% accurate information.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

pwrshift said:


> I have two seven night category nine certificates I was worried about and spoke to a rep who said they will be good in the new system for up to their highest level category but must be extended before the expiry dates each year.  Big relief.



Cat 9 is no where near new Cat 8 so I wouldn’t count on that. Wishful thinking at best.


----------



## Steve A

We have a res for a cat 9 in London for May using the seven day travel package. It’s showing as a cat 7 in the new listings in post one in this thread.


----------



## dioxide45

Steve A said:


> We have a res for a cat 9 in London for May using the seven day travel package. It’s showing as a cat 7 in the new listings in post one in this thread.


That may be because they aren't going to start using the new category 8 or disclose which properties until 2019?


----------



## rickandcindy23

I would like to have been a fly on the wall while Marriott executives decided what values and categories to put on each hotel. 

I have been trying to decide what to do with my SPG points for weeks, and now I am down to two days to decide about Amtrak.  I could just wait and see.


----------



## Steve A

dixoide

There is only one hotel in London listed as a future cat 8, the Wellesley Knightsbridge. All the other current cat 9 will be cat 7.


----------



## kds4

Ugghh. On hold with Owner Services. Since DW's MR account is attached to our MVCI account and not mine, I cannot redeem the 5 night TPs (either through Owner Services or Marriott Rewards). Owner Services says they have the issue fixed and my MR number is now attached to my owner account and DW's MR number is attached to her profile in our owner account. However, have to wait 24 hours for the system to update. So, will try again tomorrow.


----------



## NJDave

kds4 said:


> Ugghh. On hold with Owner Services. Since DW's MR account is attached to our MVCI account and not mine, I cannot redeem the 5 night TPs (either through Owner Services or Marriott Rewards). Owner Services says they have the issue fixed and my MR number is now attached to my owner account and DW's MR number is attached to her profile in our owner account. However, have to wait 24 hours for the system to update. So, will try again tomorrow.



I want to transfer points (more than 50,000) from my wife's account to mine in case I want to book one more travel package. It is difficult to get Marriott to transfer points and book a 5 night package on the same call since Marriott Rewards generally don't know how to book 5 night travel packages and MVC reps have difficulties transferring points.  I thus want to do this in two steps (i.e. transfer first) and then decide if I want a travel package later.  Having the points in my account is better anyway since I have gold and she has silver. 

I was thinking of calling Marriott Rewards to book a general reservation (not a 5 night package) in my name with points from my wife's account.

If I then cancel the trip, will the points transferred stay in my account.


----------



## dioxide45

NJDave said:


> I want to transfer points (more than 50,000) from my wife's account to mine in case I want to book one more travel package. It is difficult to get Marriott to transfer points and book a 5 night package on the same call since Marriott Rewards generally don't know how to book 5 night travel packages and MVC reps have difficulties transferring points.  I thus want to do this in two steps (i.e. transfer first) and then decide if I want a travel package later.  Having the points in my account is better anyway since I have gold and she has silver.
> 
> I was thinking of calling Marriott Rewards to book a general reservation (not a 5 night package) in my name with points from my wife's account.
> 
> If I then cancel the trip, will the points transferred stay in my account.


Since you are only transferring 50,000 points, can't you do that online?


----------



## dsmrp

NJDave said:


> I want to transfer points (more than 50,000) from my wife's account to mine in case I want to book one more travel package. It is difficult to get Marriott to transfer points and book a 5 night package on the same call since Marriott Rewards generally don't know how to book 5 night travel packages and MVC reps have difficulties transferring points.  I thus want to do this in two steps (i.e. transfer first) and then decide if I want a travel package later.  Having the points in my account is better anyway since I have gold and she has silver.
> 
> I was thinking of calling Marriott Rewards to book a general reservation (not a 5 night package) in my name with points from my wife's account.
> 
> If I then cancel the trip, will the points transferred stay in my account.



Two MR service reps (2 out of 3) told me they could only transfer 50K points between accounts in a calendar year. Only exception was for a scheduled reservation. One said he'd have to check whether he could do that for a travel package purchase. These 2 same reps said only MVC reps could book 5 night packages and since I wasn't a Marriott TS owner, I couldn't get it anyway.  But the first MR rep I talked to last week said that anyone can buy a 5 night package even when I told her I wasn't a Marriott TS owner, but a Vistana one.  Too bad I didn't have the MR points in my account to see if she would have sold me one.  Probably Marriott is firming up the rules as the merging date gets closer??


----------



## NJDave

dsmrp said:


> Two MR service reps (2 out of 3) told me they could only transfer 50K points between accounts in a calendar year. Only exception was for a scheduled reservation. One said he'd have to check whether he could do that for a travel package purchase. These 2 same reps said only MVC reps could book 5 night packages and since I wasn't a Marriott TS owner, I couldn't get it anyway.  But the first MR rep I talked to last week said that anyone can buy a 5 night package even when I told her I wasn't a Marriott TS owner, but a Vistana one.  Too bad I didn't have the MR points in my account to see if she would have sold me one.  Probably Marriott is firming up the rules as the merging date gets closer??



You may want to try what I am suggesting if the points stay after the cancellation.


----------



## NJDave

dioxide45 said:


> Since you are only transferring 50,000 points, can't you do that online?



I need to transfer more than the 50,000 points.  I had them transfer the 50,000 points yesterday which gave me enough points for one travel package.  I want to transfer 230,000 more points so I can book one more.  My wife has 234,000 points left. I have 7,000 left.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

NJDave said:


> I need to transfer more than the 50,000 points.  I had them transfer the 50,000 points yesterday which gave me enough points for one travel package.  I want to transfer 230,000 more points so I can book one more.  My wife has 234,000 points left. I have 7,000 left.



The information that anyone can buy a 5 night package is false. There have been reports of some people buying them, especially in the beginning, but that is not supposed to happen.

There is probably no way to transfer more than 50,000 points to buy a travel package. The rule is the transfer must be for booking a reservation, and a tp is not a reservation. You cannot book the reservation unless you first have the the tp. It is a conundrum. The easiest way to buy a travel package is by calling MVCI but they definitely cannot transfer the points so the only way to get an exception is by calling marriott. I can see this ending in hours and hours of phone time with no result.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

NJDave said:


> I was thinking of calling Marriott Rewards to book a general reservation (not a 5 night package) in my name with points from my wife's account.
> 
> If I then cancel the trip, will the points transferred stay in my account.



No because it will be her rewards number on the reservation. The only way to see if this will work is if you can somehow get the rewards number changed after you change it to your name. You cannot edit the rewards number unless it is already blank and once a number is in there I don't even know if a rep can change it.


----------



## NJDave

Saintsfanfl said:


> No because it will be her rewards number on the reservation. The only way to see if this will work is if you can somehow get the rewards number changed after you change it to your name. You cannot edit the rewards number unless it is already blank and once a number is in there I don't even know if a rep can change it.



If we use some points from my account and some from hers, I thought that the points should go to whoever reserved the reward. We only need the points to stay in one account to be successful.  We need the points transfer not to be reversed (i.e. not unwound to get us back pre-reservation).   If the points go to one account, we could structure the transaction in the reverse order if necessary (e.g. I transfer points to her account and she cancels if the points go to who transferred points or 2) she transfers points to me and I cancel if the points stay with whoever reserved).

I thought the two most likely alternatives would be that they either unwind the transaction or the points stay in my account if she transfer points to my account and I cancel.


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## Armada

There is an alternative to the 50K cap on moving points between Marriott accounts.  If you both have Starwood accounts, move her Marriott points to her Starwood account.  Once the points are in her Starwood account, transfer them to your Starwood account.  When they arrive in your Starwood account, move them to your MR account.  This can all be done on line. Starwood doesn't appear to have a cap as long as you share the same address.  I was able to move about 300K MR points from my wife to myself doing this.


----------



## NJDave

Another possibility is


Armada said:


> There is an alternative to the 50K cap on moving points between Marriott accounts.  If you both have Starwood accounts, move her Marriott points to her Starwood account.  Once the points are in her Starwood account, transfer them to your Starwood account.  When they arrive in your Starwood account, move the to your MR account.  This can all be done on line. Starwood doesn't appear to have a cap as long as you share the same address.  I was able to move about 300K MR points from my wife to myself doing this.



Thanks, I think my suggestion works.  To clarify, I would transfer points from my wife's account to mine by transferring points needed to book the reservation in my name (only to cancel it later).  My understanding is that I can transfer an unlimited amount of points as long as it is for a reservation. Since it is difficult to reserve a 5 night package as the reservation, my idea is that I would make a reservation for anything for the amount of points needed and then cancel the reservation shortly after booking it.  The points transferred would then be in my account after the cancellation.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

NJDave said:


> If we use some points from my account and some from hers, I thought that the points should go to whoever reserved the reward. We only need the points to stay in one account to be successful.  We need the points transfer not to be reversed (i.e. not unwound to get us back pre-reservation).   If the points go to one account, we could structure the transaction in the reverse order if necessary (e.g. I transfer points to her account and she cancels if the points go to who transferred points or 2) she transfers points to me and I cancel if the points stay with whoever reserved).
> 
> I thought the two most likely alternatives would be that they either unwind the transaction or the points stay in my account if she transfer points to my account and I cancel.



Might work. I can say that I have used a free night award in the past, cancelled it late, and received 25,000 points rather than the free night award certificate.


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## kds4

NJDave said:


> I need to transfer more than the 50,000 points.  I had them transfer the 50,000 points yesterday which gave me enough points for one travel package.  I want to transfer 230,000 more points so I can book one more.  My wife has 234,000 points left. I have 7,000 left.



If all the points for the TP are coming from her account, why not just have your wife get on the phone and do it herself?


----------



## dsmrp

Armada said:


> There is an alternative to the 50K cap on moving points between Marriott accounts.  If you both have Starwood accounts, move her Marriott points to her Starwood account.  Once the points are in her Starwood account, transfer them to your Starwood account.  When they arrive in your Starwood account, move the to your MR account.  This can all be done on line. Starwood doesn't appear to have a cap as long as you share the same address.  I was able to move about 300K MR points from my wife to myself doing this.



Yes Starwood doesn't appear to have a cap.  Except when we did this early last year, they were so slow on the transfer.  They said it would take them at least 5 business days, and it actually took them as long as they said it would.  Have they speeded up since then? Or updated their website to give people function to do it online?  I'll have to check....


----------



## dioxide45

Saintsfanfl said:


> There is probably no way to transfer more than 50,000 points to buy a travel package. The rule is the transfer must be for booking a reservation, and a tp is not a reservation.


I think the rule is you have to be redeeming a reward at the time of transfer. We have transferred more than 50K several times when only redeeming a TP.


----------



## dsmrp

dsmrp said:


> Yes Starwood doesn't appear to have a cap.  Except when we did this early last year, they were so slow on the transfer.  They said it would take them at least 5 business days, and it actually took them as long as they said it would.  Have they speeded up since then? Or updated their website to give people function to do it online?  I'll have to check....



Yes, I can do online request to have my starpoints transferred to DH's account, but the confirmation message I get still mentions taking 5 days to complete the transfer....


----------



## mjm1

dioxide45 said:


> I think the rule is you have to be redeeming a reward at the time of transfer. We have transferred more than 50K several times when only redeeming a TP.



I was able to transfer more than 50k MRPs to redeem points for a TP without making a reservation. I did have to push the point, but was ultimately able to do it. I don't know if this was an exception or I just got lucky.

Mike


----------



## Armada

dsmrp said:


> Yes, I can do online request to have my starpoints transferred to DH's account, but the confirmation message I get still mentions taking 5 days to complete the transfer....


When I transferred points from my wife's Starwood account to mine, it took two days.


----------



## NJDave

kds4 said:


> If all the points for the TP are coming from her account, why not just have your wife get on the phone and do it herself?



The bulk of the points are coming from her account but she is short points too.  Since I have gold status and she has silver, it is better to have the reservation in my account.


----------



## JanT

Both my husband and I requested to have points moved from our SPG accounts to my mom's account.  The email does say it can take up to 5 business days and at least with our transactions they're taking their sweet time about it.  We requested the transfer on Monday evening of 23 July and as of this morning they are STILL not in her account.  Since we did the request on the evening of the 23rd, I figured they would drop in her account last night but it didn't happen.  I'm getting pretty frustrated and if they're not in her account by the end of today I'm going to contact Starwood to find out what the heck is going on.  I cannot understand WHY it is taking this long.



dsmrp said:


> Yes, I can do online request to have my starpoints transferred to DH's account, but the confirmation message I get still mentions taking 5 days to complete the transfer....


----------



## VacationForever

JanT said:


> Both my husband and I requested to have points moved from our SPG accounts to my mom's account.  The email does say it can take up to 5 business days and at least with our transactions they're taking their sweet time about it.  We requested the transfer on Monday evening of 23 July and as of this morning they are STILL not in her account.  Since we did the request on the evening of the 23rd, I figured they would drop in her account last night but it didn't happen.  I'm getting pretty frustrated and if they're not in her account by the end of today I'm going to contact Starwood to find out what the heck is going on.  I cannot understand WHY it is taking this long.


Does she have the same address as both of you?  If not, you won't be able to do that.


----------



## JanT

Yes, she does.  That is why I'm so frustrated - everything is in place but it is taking forever.  Both mine and hers are new accounts but my husband has had his account for years.  With the new accounts I expected some delay just to make sure we met the rules (which we have) but my husband's account should have moved to hers very quickly.



VacationForever said:


> Does she have the same address as both of you?  If not, you won't be able to do that.


----------



## jtp1947

@NJDave:  I have done what you propose and it does work.


----------



## VacationForever

JanT said:


> Yes, she does.  That is why I'm so frustrated - everything is in place but it is taking forever.  Both mine and hers are new accounts but my husband has had his account for years.  With the new accounts I expected some delay just to make sure we met the rules (which we have) but my husband's account should have moved to hers very quickly.


Someone reported something about there is a waiting period of about 28 days for new account transfers.


----------



## Seaport104

dioxide45 said:


> I think the rule is you have to be redeeming a reward at the time of transfer. We have transferred more than 50K several times when only redeeming a TP.



Interesting, I was told that more than 50,000 points transfer (to fulfill a reservation) can only be done once a calendar year.


----------



## JanT

Yes, there is a 30 day waiting period and we met that requirement.  Both my husband and I received an email stating that they had received our request to transfer the points and it would be done within 5 business days.  Still waiting and will call if they don't show up today.



VacationForever said:


> Someone reported something about there is a waiting period of about 28 days for new account transfers.


----------



## JanT

Just checked my mom's account and both sets of points are finally there!  Now onto the next part of transferring - to Marriott!



JanT said:


> Yes, there is a 30 day waiting period and we met that requirement.  Both my husband and I received an email stating that they had received our request to transfer the points and it would be done within 5 business days.  Still waiting and will call if they don't show up today.


----------



## kds4

JanT said:


> Just checked my mom's account and both sets of points are finally there!  Now onto the next part of transferring - to Marriott!



My transfers from SPG to MR posted immediately. I just had to refresh my screen for each account for the updated balances to show.


----------



## kds4

kds4 said:


> Ugghh. On hold with Owner Services. Since DW's MR account is attached to our MVCI account and not mine, I cannot redeem the 5 night TPs (either through Owner Services or Marriott Rewards). Owner Services says they have the issue fixed and my MR number is now attached to my owner account and DW's MR number is attached to her profile in our owner account. However, have to wait 24 hours for the system to update. So, will try again tomorrow.



So, I called again (just over 24 hours since my last attempt yesterday) to redeem several 5 night TPs. Owner Services confirmed that they can see my name and MR number, but still cannot access my account for me to redeem them. "Perhaps it takes 25 hours?"

Just how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Travel Package ... a 1 , a 2 , a 3 ?


----------



## VacationForever

kds4 said:


> So, I called again (just over 24 hours since my last attempt yesterday) to redeem several 5 night TPs. Owner Services confirmed that they can see my name and MR number, but still cannot access my account for me to redeem them. "Perhaps it takes 25 hours?"
> 
> Just how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Travel Package ... a 1 , a 2 , a 3 ?


Geez... sorry that you are facing issues.    Hopefully they get it fixed before August 17!


----------



## catharsis

Seaport104 said:


> Interesting, I was told that more than 50,000 points transfer (to fulfill a reservation) can only be done once a calendar year.



The information you received from the CSR was correct (maybe, although whether this is enforced is uncertain, and I can tell you that it is per 'pair' of accounts, as I have on more than one occasion has cause to have both my OH and an..other transfer points into my account to complete a TP Package in the same year).

the T's & C's are public

See https://www.marriott.com/rewards/terms/earning.mi


> This Member benefit is available between any two accounts in good standing whether sending or receiving points. A Member may authorize the transfer a maximum of 50,000 Points per calendar year into the Rewards Program account of friends or family provided the recipient account is also in good standing. Once per calendar year and only at time of Reward Redemption a Member may exceed the 50,000 Point maximum into the Rewards Program account of a friend or family member in order to qualify for a specific Reward in accordance with this section.
> 
> Immediately prior to Reward Redemption and only once per calendar year, a Member may authorize the transfer of the necessary number of Points into the Rewards Program account of a friend or family member, in order to qualify for a specific Reward. This transfer may exceed the 50,000 Point maximum per calendar year.


----------



## kds4

kds4 said:


> So, I called again (just over 24 hours since my last attempt yesterday) to redeem several 5 night TPs. Owner Services confirmed that they can see my name and MR number, but still cannot access my account for me to redeem them. "Perhaps it takes 25 hours?"
> 
> Just how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Travel Package ... a 1 , a 2 , a 3 ?



So, it was 3 'licks' after all (with a transfer to the 'Loyalty Department' of Marriott Rewards as opposed to the 'regular' folks who handle MR redemptions as MVCI never could get into my MR account). The MR Loyalty person was able to redeem all 6 travel packages for me at 1.47 million MRPs (if only I had that with a dollar sign in front of it) ... . 

Alas, now I am MRP 'poor' with less than 10k points. So, off to rebuild (after I figure out where to make reservations to attach to these accommodation certificates ... )


----------



## NJDave

jtp1947 said:


> @NJDave:  I have done what you propose and it does work.



Thanks.  I called tonight but the system was down.  I have a reservation in my name. I just need to get the points transferred to order the certificate.  I booked something that I wouldn't mind keeping (i.e. Atlantis) but I will still likely cancel.


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## CalGalTraveler

I am trying to figure out whether to pull the trigger on a low end travel package or simply use points on a 4 night Ritz Carlton Kapalua stay.

Have roughly 560k Marriott points.

Currently I am reserved for a 4 night stay next summer in a 1 Bdrm OV Residence at Ritz (400,000 MR pts + $250).  This fills a gap between 2 TS week reservations that I cannot change (WKORVN OF and Maui Hill) so 7 nights from a travel package would be wasted. Plus the resort fees and extra points/cash needed to upgrade to OV for a week would break the bank.

Options:

1) Stay with Ritz Kapalua Residences leaving 160k MR points for another vacation.

2) Buy a low end 7 night travel package for the points/air 270k leaving 290k points to use at another Marriott Maui property - not enough for the Ritz. MVC is not available and I need at least a 1 bdrm condo for family. We don't own MVC (Vistana only) so would not qualify for a 5 night.

3) Buy the low end travel package and pay cash to rent 4 nights at non-Marriott/Ritz condo.
     a) any opinions on Outrigger Maui Kapalua Villas OV? How do they compare to the Ritz residences on view etc. (we prefer view over fancy but also want decent lanai and interior).

What would you do?

P.S. we have struggled to find good use for the 7 night packages in the past. 5 nights would be better - if they happen to offer 5 nights when I call, what are the points for a low end 1 - 5 package?


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## TXTortoise

165k to 235k. Login to your MVCi acct to see chart.
https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials


1 - 5 165,000 185,000 215,000 235,000

Call MVCi to book these.


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## kds4

TXTortoise said:


> 165k to 235k. Login to your MVCi acct to see chart.
> https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials
> 
> 
> 1 - 5 165,000 185,000 215,000 235,000
> 
> Call MVCi to book these.



Get these prices while they last. Sometime in the next 2 weeks they will disappear (without further warning from MR).


----------



## Safti

kds4 said:


> Get these prices while they last. Sometime in the next 2 weeks they will disappear (without further warning from MR).


How do you know there will not be further warning. They have already published the pricing of the 7 night.


----------



## JanT

Ok, I have a question about TPs.  If I purchase a travel package and use the hotel certificate, is the certificate good for only a standard room?  I.e., I want to go to Marriott Crystal Shores for a week and want to use my hotel certificate.  The only availability is for a 2BR unit during the time I want to go.  Can I use the certificate for that or will I have to use additional points to upgrade from a standard room to the 2BR?


----------



## CalGalTraveler

JanT said:


> Ok, I have a question about TPs.  If I purchase a travel package and use the hotel certificate, is the certificate good for only a standard room?  I.e., I want to go to Marriott Crystal Shores for a week and want to use my hotel certificate.  The only availability is for a 2BR unit during the time I want to go.  Can I use the certificate for that or will I have to use additional points to upgrade from a standard room to the 2BR?



The cert will only cover a standard room. You will need to add points or cash to upgrade.


----------



## JanT

Thanks, CalGal - that's what I thought but wanted to double check.



CalGalTraveler said:


> The cert will only cover a standard room. You will need to add points or cash to upgrade.


----------



## kds4

kds4 said:


> Get these prices while they last. Sometime in the next 2 weeks they will disappear (without further warning from MR).



At this point, there is no confirmation that 5 night travel packages will be available in any form under the new combined loyalty program taking effect this month. If 5 night travel packages will still be available to MVCI owners going forward, they will be at higher redemption costs than they currently are (just like the 'new' higher rates coming for redeeming 7 night TPs). 

So, sometime in the next 2 weeks the 5 night TPs at the current published rates will cease to be offered. That's why I recommended getting them sooner than later.


----------



## kds4

JanT said:


> Ok, I have a question about TPs.  If I purchase a travel package and use the hotel certificate, is the certificate good for only a standard room?  I.e., I want to go to Marriott Crystal Shores for a week and want to use my hotel certificate.  The only availability is for a 2BR unit during the time I want to go.  Can I use the certificate for that or will I have to use additional points to upgrade from a standard room to the 2BR?



I learned from an MR rep that the answer is 'it depends on the property'. If you are a Platinum or higher, some of the hotel properties will 'upgrade' you to a better/larger room (even a 2BR) based on your MR status. However, for MVCI properties (like Crystal Shores), I would expect to pay the additional points to upgrade.


----------



## Mr. Vker

kds4 said:


> I learned from an MR rep that the answer is 'it depends on the property'. If you are a Platinum or higher, some of the hotel properties will 'upgrade' you to a better/larger room (even a 2BR) based on your MR status. However, for MVCI properties (like Crystal Shores), I would expect to pay the additional points to upgrade.



I Would NEVER count on that at a MVCI. If you do the base reward, its only good for the guest room/lock off portion. Sure, you MAY be upgraded but its rare at a MVCI and I am lifetime Plat in MR. if you have more people than will fit then you are in trouble. The other thing to remember is that some properties-like Phuket-only have two bedrooms. So the MR points required are the base + the extras for the two bedroom upgrade at time of booking/award.


----------



## bazzap

I have never, ever heard of anyone receiving an upgrade at an MVC resort through their MR status.
I too am Lifetime Platinum and I have over 100 weeks of stays at multiple MVC resorts.


----------



## kds4

Agreed. The reference was made for stays at hotel properties and to expect to pay the upgrade charge at an MVCI property.


----------



## kds4

Mr. Vker said:


> I Would NEVER count on that at a MVCI. If you do the base reward, its only good for the guest room/lock off portion. Sure, you MAY be upgraded but its rare at a MVCI and I am lifetime Plat in MR. if you have more people than will fit then you are in trouble. The other thing to remember is that some properties-like Phuket-only have two bedrooms. So the MR points required are the base + the extras for the two bedroom upgrade at time of booking/award.



I will say that I believe there is a reasonable possibility (based on the upcoming property Category realignment) that MVCI resorts will be ranked based on their 'actual' available accommodation (resulting in situations where the 'upgrade' charges will no longer apply). I am referring to the dedicated 2BR properties that offer only 2BR units and have no lock-offs. An example would be OceanWatch. Hopefully, the new rate of 60k MRPs per night (as a new Category 6) will get you the 2BR units they offer without any 'upcharges'. 

If a property only has 1 type of unit, the advertised price is what you should pay. Where a property has multiple unit sizes, the advertised MRP redemption would apply to the smallest accommodation type and you would 'upgrade' from there. Under the old system, I think these lines may have been blurred?


----------



## l0410z

I am not accountant but loyalty points have a monetary value and should be accounted for on a company's balance sheet.  I wonder how many points Marriott is reducing their point liability during this rush to use points before the Aug 17th cut over.    I am guessing by at least 50% or more.   I am down to my lowest level since owning a timeshare (32K).  Member since 1994 and based on lifetime numbers over 2.5M points.  With 615 nights I may be the rare member that is short on nights not points in the current scheme.


----------



## TXTortoise

I was wondering about that, along with whether the influx of FF miles from TPs to the big three domestic carriers was statistically significant to them...or if they care.

Though an unused TP would have a similar liability on the books as MRs, correct?


----------



## controller1

l0410z said:


> I am not accountant but loyalty points have a monetary value and should be accounted for on a company's balance sheet.  I wonder how many points Marriott is reducing their point liability during this rush to use points before the Aug 17th cut over.    I am guessing by at least 50% or more.   I am down to my lowest level since owning a timeshare (32K).  Member since 1994 and based on lifetime numbers over 2.5M points.  With 615 nights I may be the rare member that is short on nights not points in the current scheme.



The liability on Marriott's balance sheet for the loyalty points is only reduced when the points are used through the provision of services (ie. after the hotel reservation is used or the points are transferred to an airline in a final transaction).  The liability is not reduced when a hotel reservation is made with points, only after the reservation is used.

Therefore, the purchase of a Travel Package has some reduction in Marriott's liability (the portion of points utilized for the airline miles since that part of the transaction is final) but the portion of the miles allocated to the hotel side does not reduce the liability until the reservation is used.


----------



## Mr. Vker

l0410z said:


> I am not accountant but loyalty points have a monetary value and should be accounted for on a company's balance sheet.  I wonder how many points Marriott is reducing their point liability during this rush to use points before the Aug 17th cut over.    I am guessing by at least 50% or more.   I am down to my lowest level since owning a timeshare (32K).  Member since 1994 and based on lifetime numbers over 2.5M points.  With 615 nights I may be the rare member that is short on nights not points in the current scheme.



I think you are right on targert. 

I said in another thread that Marriott has stated publicly (financial calls) that they are taking steps to reduce costs of loyalty program. 1) By watering down the program 2) Actually reducing the number of elite members. They dont care if they go other places. They feel that occasional travelers will more than backfill.


----------



## kds4

kds4 said:


> So, it was 3 'licks' after all (with a transfer to the 'Loyalty Department' of Marriott Rewards as opposed to the 'regular' folks who handle MR redemptions as MVCI never could get into my MR account). The MR Loyalty person was able to redeem all 6 travel packages for me at 1.47 million MRPs (if only I had that with a dollar sign in front of it) ... .
> 
> Alas, now I am MRP 'poor' with less than 10k points. So, off to rebuild (after I figure out where to make reservations to attach to these accommodation certificates ... )



Happy to report that 264k United miles posted in under 24 hours of redeeming travel packages yesterday. Now, just waiting on American (which I have been told can be 1 to 2 weeks).


----------



## TXTortoise

kds4 said:


> Happy to report that 264k United miles posted in under 24 hours of redeeming travel packages yesterday. Now, just waiting on American (which I have been told can be 1 to 2 weeks).



My UA posted next day also, but AA was 3-5 days, but under a week.


----------



## Luvtoride

TXTortoise said:


> 165k to 235k. Login to your MVCi acct to see chart.
> https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials
> 
> 
> 1 - 5 165,000 185,000 215,000 235,000
> 
> Call MVCi to book these.



TX, I got the chart too and was wondering why there is no Group 4 for JetBlue miles as they are included in the 7 night packages as their own group there (similar to Group 3 for Southwest).  Has anyone seen this group in the 5 night packages?  The Owner Advisor I spoke to was clueless and of no help in that regard.


----------



## Bunk

bazzap said:


> I have never, ever heard of anyone receiving an upgrade at an MVC resort through their MR status.
> I too am Lifetime Platinum and I have over 100 weeks of stays at multiple MVC resorts.



A platinum/gold is not entitled to a complimentary upgrade for MVC.  
The rules specifically say that.


Complimentary Room Upgrade: Based on room availability at check-in and limited to a Member's personal guestroom. Upgrades may include rooms with desirable views, rooms on high floors, corner rooms, rooms with special amenities, rooms on Executive Floors, or suites.  All upgrades are granted on a space-available basis, as determined at the time of check-in. Upgrades are subject to availability and identified by each hotel. Not available at Marriott Vacation Club.


----------



## teach

Luvtoride said:


> TX, I got the chart too and was wondering why there is no Group 4 for JetBlue miles as they are included in the 7 night packages as their own group there (similar to Group 3 for Southwest).  Has anyone seen this group in the 5 night packages?  The Owner Advisor I spoke to was clueless and of no help in that regard.


----------



## teach

I got a 5 night TP WITH Jetblue miles by calling owner services.


----------



## JanT

I wouldn't count on it either.  It's only me and my husband so a guest room would be just fine.  I just wasn't sure what the package covered.  Thank you everyone for replying!



Mr. Vker said:


> I Would NEVER count on that at a MVCI. If you do the base reward, its only good for the guest room/lock off portion. Sure, you MAY be upgraded but its rare at a MVCI and I am lifetime Plat in MR. if you have more people than will fit then you are in trouble. The other thing to remember is that some properties-like Phuket-only have two bedrooms. So the MR points required are the base + the extras for the two bedroom upgrade at time of booking/award.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Crystal Shores upgrading a standard room to a 2BR is not an option. You first need a reservation in order to get an upgrade. You cannot get a standard room reservation at Crystal Shores because it does not exist. This is the reason why the points requirement at so many MVC properties are going up so high. Those existing points requirements are fake because it is based on a hotel room size that simply does not exist. The only way to do it currently is to pay the points to upgrade the size to what exists in actual real life. The new points requirements will now make sense and be for the smallest room size that exists.

That said, I agree with the others that MVC properties are excluded from the free upgrade ability, if it was even an option such as a lock-off type property where the points requirements matches to the studio. You are never going to book a studio on points and have the resort upgrade it to a 1BR or 2BR, or at least I have never heard of it happening.


----------



## 1Kflyerguy

I am not sure i have ever seen reward availability for any MVC property.  Maybe i just had bad luck with my searches, but there seems to almost no availability on-line.


----------



## deniseh

1Kflyerguy said:


> I am not sure i have ever seen reward availability for any MVC property.  Maybe i just had bad luck with my searches, but there seems to almost no availability on-line.


I think you are right.  I have had a vacation club advisor tell me the other day that MVC rarely makes inventory available for reward availability so although it appears possible in reality it is unlikely to happen.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

deniseh said:


> I think you are right.  I have had a vacation club advisor tell me the other day that MVC rarely makes inventory available for reward availability so although it appears possible in reality it is unlikely to happen.



I don’t think that’s accurate. For example I can book a couple nights next month in Orlando using points and I see every MVC property available including Lakeshore Reserve and Imperial Palms. I can do the same search for Marco Island and Crystal Shores is available. The confusion might be with trying to book free nights and needing to pay the upgrade steps. Or trying to book high demand times. MVC won’t have much inventory turned over to hotel bookings for high demand times but the same can happen to regular hotels to a lesser degree.



1Kflyerguy said:


> I am not sure i have ever seen reward availability for any MVC property.  Maybe i just had bad luck with my searches, but there seems to almost no availability on-line.



Free nights or points? I see availability all the time with points.

Another member mentioned staying in the Gulf Front penthouse suites at Crystal Shores using points.

I checked south Florida and Oceana Palms, Ocean Pointe, and Beach Place are all available as well.

As long as you can see it with points you should be able to call and use free nights. The caveat is you will need to pony up the points discrepancy.


----------



## JanT

I see availability at MVC quite often actually.  We never really want to travel in peak times so that helps.  I just wasn't sure how a TP would work if all that's available at a resort is a 2 or 3BR, i.e., would the hotel certificate work to secure the reservation.


----------



## VacationForever

JanT said:


> I see availability at MVC quite often actually.  We never really want to travel in peak times so that helps.  I just wasn't sure how a TP would work if all that's available at a resort is a 2 or 3BR, i.e., would the hotel certificate work to secure the reservation.


You need to find the same room at marriott.com.  If you don't find on marriott.com you cannot secure it using a hotel certificate.


----------



## Fasttr

JanT said:


> I see availability at MVC quite often actually.  We never really want to travel in peak times so that helps.  I just wasn't sure how a TP would work if all that's available at a resort is a 2 or 3BR, i.e., would the hotel certificate work to secure the reservation.


The certificate is good for a studio only.  Need 5K points per night to upgrade to a 1BR and another 5K points per night to upgrade to a 2BR.  (This of course is all based on the current system...who knows in the new MR environment).


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Fasttr said:


> The certificate is good for a studio only.  Need 5K points per night to upgrade to a 1BR and another 5K points per night to upgrade to a 2BR.  (This of course is all based on the current system...who knows in the new MR environment).



The new system will be based on the smallest room the property has which makes much more sense. The current system of showing how many points you need to book at Imperial Palms in a studio when the smallest room is a 3BR is about as ridiculous as it can possibly get. It is really nice that they considered this when making the changes. This is why Imperial Palms is going from 35,000 per night to 50,000. It was never 35,000. It was 50,000, so in reality it isn’t actually changing. You will see similar changes for all non-studio MVC properties. At a studio property like Grande Vista it is staying the same 35,000 points per night.


----------



## 1Kflyerguy

Saintsfanfl said:


> I don’t think that’s accurate. For example I can book a couple nights next month in Orlando using points and I see every MVC property available including Lakeshore Reserve and Imperial Palms. I can do the same search for Marco Island and Crystal Shores is available. The confusion might be with trying to book free nights and needing to pay the upgrade steps. Or trying to book high demand times. MVC won’t have much inventory turned over to hotel bookings for high demand times but the same can happen to regular hotels to a lesser degree.
> 
> 
> 
> Free nights or points? I see availability all the time with points.
> 
> Another member mentioned staying in the Gulf Front penthouse suites at Crystal Shores using points.
> 
> I checked south Florida and Oceana Palms, Ocean Pointe, and Beach Place are all available as well.
> 
> As long as you can see it with points you should be able to call and use free nights. The caveat is you will need to pony up the points discrepancy.




I was trying with points.  i have mostly tried in Hawaii, but believe i also tries one or two locations in the mainland.  I was really just looking around.  Since your seeing availability, i will try again at a few more resorts and dates, like the ones you listed above.  Maybe i just had a string of bad luck on the searches...


----------



## Saintsfanfl

1Kflyerguy said:


> I was trying with points.  i have mostly tried in Hawaii, but believe i also tries one or two locations in the mainland.  I was really just looking around.  Since your seeing availability, i will try again at a few more resorts and dates, like the ones you listed above.  Maybe i just had a string of bad luck on the searches...



If nothing shows up it helps to use flexible dates and walk forward to see if anything shows up for shoulder or offseason months. In Florida Sept is the slowest month so it wasn’t surprising seeing availability for points at every MVC in the state.


----------



## SMB1

1Kflyerguy said:


> I was trying with points.  i have mostly tried in Hawaii, but believe i also tries one or two locations in the mainland.  I was really just looking around.  Since your seeing availability, i will try again at a few more resorts and dates, like the ones you listed above.  Maybe i just had a string of bad luck on the searches...



Many nights available this Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec at Ko Olina.


----------



## nick793

Hello, sorry if this has come up previously.

My dad is a MVC owner and we make great use of our timeshare but he has no interest in TPs.  I am not an owner but have a boatload of Marriott pts saved up (427k).

I was hoping to go for 2 5-night packages, but not sure if either MVCI or the regular Marriott Rewards line will let me do so since I'm not the timeshare owner.  Has anyone done this?  Is it possible for an owner to "gift" the ability to book these to a family member?  Would having him on the line to more or less vouch for me work?

I know front line Marriott Rewards reps will mistakenly give these out to non owners, but I don't want to get anyone in trouble.  Thoughts?


----------



## VacationForever

nick793 said:


> Hello, sorry if this has come up previously.
> 
> My dad is a MVC owner and we make great use of our timeshare but he has no interest in TPs.  I am not an owner but have a boatload of Marriott pts saved up (427k).
> 
> I was hoping to go for 2 5-night packages, but not sure if either MVCI or the regular Marriott Rewards line will let me do so since I'm not the timeshare owner.  Has anyone done this?  Is it possible for an owner to "gift" the ability to book these to a family member?  Would having him on the line to more or less vouch for me work?
> 
> I know front line Marriott Rewards reps will mistakenly give these out to non owners, but I don't want to get anyone in trouble.  Thoughts?


You may only use your MRPs to book 7-night packages.


----------



## kds4

nick793 said:


> Hello, sorry if this has come up previously.
> 
> My dad is a MVC owner and we make great use of our timeshare but he has no interest in TPs.  I am not an owner but have a boatload of Marriott pts saved up (427k).
> 
> I was hoping to go for 2 5-night packages, but not sure if either MVCI or the regular Marriott Rewards line will let me do so since I'm not the timeshare owner.  Has anyone done this?  Is it possible for an owner to "gift" the ability to book these to a family member?  Would having him on the line to more or less vouch for me work?
> 
> I know front line Marriott Rewards reps will mistakenly give these out to non owners, but I don't want to get anyone in trouble.  Thoughts?



You can reserve a 7 night travel package by contacting Marriott Rewards. As you said, the 5 night packages are for Marriott Vacation Club owners.


----------



## bazzap

I don’t know the specifics, but I would have thought it was certainly worth a discussion between your Dad and MVC Owners services to explore the possibility of him booking a 5 night Travel Package for you to use.
I am sure the restriction on these packages is intended to stop just anyone using them.
In the extreme, couldn’t your Dad just add you as an additional named Owner?


----------



## nick793

kds4 said:


> You can reserve a 7 night travel package by contacting Marriott Rewards. As you said, the 5 night packages are for Marriott Vacation Club owners.



Ok thanks!  Was hoping there was a way to do it.  Do you happen to know if my dad can book one on my behalf with my points?  Or is that a non-starter as well?  If I'm stuck with 7 nights so be it, but figured it couldn't hurt to see if this was a thing one could do.

Ideally I'm looking for a way to link our accounts and do this all from my end since I'm not yet at a point in my life where I can justify buying a timeshare (especially since we already have one in the family and don't need a second lol)


----------



## nick793

bazzap said:


> I don’t know the specifics, but I would have thought it was certainly worth a discussion between your Dad and MVC Owners services to explore the possibility of him booking a 5 night Travel Package for you to use.
> I am sure the restriction on these packages is intended to stop just anyone using them.
> In the extreme, couldn’t your Dad just add you as an additional named Owner?



Thanks! Yeah it definitely would be at least worth a call! I was gonna try calling tomorrow or Monday with my dad and ask but was trying to see if someone had done this before or if it was a common practice.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

nick793 said:


> Thanks! Yeah it definitely would be at least worth a call! I was gonna try calling tomorrow or Monday with my dad and ask but was trying to see if someone had done this before or if it was a common practice.



You have to be the owner and someone else cannot use your points. You cannot link your points to your dads MVC account. To add you to the ownership you need to be added to the deed. Once you are added to the deed as a co-owner then MVC will add you in their system. Then you are an owner and can book a 5-night package. I wouldn’t start going through all that until you know there will still be 5-night packages after the 18th.


----------



## winger

Saintsfanfl said:


> ...added to the deed as a co-owner then MVC will add you in their system. Then you are an owner and can book a 5-night package. I wouldn’t start going through all that until you know there will still be 5-night packages after the 18th.


I am under the impression the OP wants to beat the Aug 18th deadline to take advantage of the pre-devaluation TP prices.


----------



## Quilter

nick793 said:


> Thanks! Yeah it definitely would be at least worth a call! I was gonna try calling tomorrow or Monday with my dad and ask but was trying to see if someone had done this before or if it was a common practice.




If your dad has enough points he can make reservations and add you as a guest.  You can owe him points or gift them to him.  There is a fee for gifting so you could do an IOU of some sort.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

Quilter said:


> If your dad has enough points he can make reservations and add you as a guest.  You can owe him points or gift them to him.  There is a fee for gifting so you could do an IOU of some sort.



Since the primary name on the reservation can now be changed by anyone online it makes this very easy.


----------



## rickandcindy23

The Swan and Dolphin at Epcot will be 50K points.  They are now 14K SPG points.  That's really high.  I made a reservation for our late November trip at 14K per night.  Ridiculous at 50K.  And I booked at 12K per night today for our late November stay.


----------



## JIMinNC

rickandcindy23 said:


> The Swan and Dolphin at Epcot will be 50K points.  They are now 14K SPG points.  That's really high.  I made a reservation for our late November trip at 14K per night.  Ridiculous at 50K.



But 1 SPG Point equals 3 Marriott Rewards points, so the real increase is just 42,000 to 50,000.


----------



## controller1

rickandcindy23 said:


> The Swan and Dolphin at Epcot will be 50K points.  They are now 14K SPG points.  That's really high.  I made a reservation for our late November trip at 14K per night.  Ridiculous at 50K.



Yes, but that's due to the way Marriott prices awards.  SPG priced awards based on average room revenue.  Marriott prices awards based on popularity of the property for award usage.  I'm sure those two properties get their fair share of awards bookings.


----------



## kds4

nick793 said:


> Ok thanks!  Was hoping there was a way to do it.  Do you happen to know if my dad can book one on my behalf with my points?  Or is that a non-starter as well?  If I'm stuck with 7 nights so be it, but figured it couldn't hurt to see if this was a thing one could do.
> 
> Ideally I'm looking for a way to link our accounts and do this all from my end since I'm not yet at a point in my life where I can justify buying a timeshare (especially since we already have one in the family and don't need a second lol)



He could book a package using points from his MR account, not yours. The only work-around I see as a possibility, is if your father were able to have you added as an additional named owner with MVCI (as Bazzap suggested). However, I'm not sure what the mechanics of that are assuming your father were amenable.


----------



## kds4

Saintsfanfl said:


> You have to be the owner and someone else cannot use your points. You cannot link your points to your dads MVC account. To add you to the ownership you need to be added to the deed. Once you are added to the deed as a co-owner then MVC will add you in their system. Then you are an owner and can book a 5-night package. I wouldn’t start going through all that until you know there will still be 5-night packages after the 18th.



I doubt adding owners to the deed could even be accomplished by the 18th. Sounds like a non-starter, given the timeframe we're all dealing with on TP redemptions.


----------



## Saintsfanfl

kds4 said:


> He could book a package using points from his MR account, not yours. The only work-around I see as a possibility, is if your father were able to have you added as an additional named owner with MVCI (as Bazzap suggested). However, I'm not sure what the mechanics of that are assuming your father were amenable.



Have to be on the deed. MVCI doesn’t allow arbitrarily adding anyone as an “unofficial” owner. From what I have experienced they are strict on following chain of title and those titles matching the transfers in the MVC system.


----------



## SMB1

JanT said:


> Yes, there is a 30 day waiting period and we met that requirement.  Both my husband and I received an email stating that they had received our request to transfer the points and it would be done within 5 business days.  Still waiting and will call if they don't show up today.



What is the 30 day waiting period exactly?  If I set up an SPG account today my wife cannot transfer points to my SPG account for 30 days?


----------



## JanT

Yes, your account would have to be open for 30 days before she could transfer points to you.  



SMB1 said:


> What is the 30 day waiting period exactly?  If I set up an SPG account today my wife cannot transfer points to my SPG account for 30 days?


----------



## catharsis

nick793 said:


> Hello, sorry if this has come up previously.
> 
> My dad is a MVC owner and we make great use of our timeshare but he has no interest in TPs.  I am not an owner but have a boatload of Marriott pts saved up (427k).
> 
> I was hoping to go for 2 5-night packages, but not sure if either MVCI or the regular Marriott Rewards line will let me do so since I'm not the timeshare owner.  Has anyone done this?  Is it possible for an owner to "gift" the ability to book these to a family member?  Would having him on the line to more or less vouch for me work?
> 
> I know front line Marriott Rewards reps will mistakenly give these out to non owners, but I don't want to get anyone in trouble.  Thoughts?


1. clear out all of the points from your dad's account somehow (e.g. book something for 2019 which he intends to cancel).
2. Transfer points into his account from yours to buy TP # 1.
3. identify a second MR account, neither yours nor your dads (spouses, siblings etc all good) - clear out their account as above at 1 for your dad
4. have them make a large 2019 hotel booking requiring the remaining points you want to use, requiring you to transfer the points for that to their account.  
5. have them cancel the booking so they have all the points you want to use for TP # 2 in their account.
6. have them transfer the points to your dad's account to allow your dad to book TP #2

nothing above is illegal nor officially against the terms of the program although it is LOTS of trouble to organize.... it should work but you have to ask yourself is it really worth the effort?


----------



## NJDave

NJDave said:


> Thanks.  I called tonight but the system was down.  I have a reservation in my name. I just need to get the points transferred to order the certificate.  I booked something that I wouldn't mind keeping (i.e. Atlantis) but I will still likely cancel.




I tried again.  I got the same response "sorry the system is down".  I was told that it has been down for 6 days.


----------



## Born2Travel

Travel Package newbie here - I know, a little late to the game...but I want to buy a 5 night travel package and have read through most of the posts.  I think what I need to do is call MVCI (which Dept is this? Customer Service?) And ask for Cat 1-5 pkg with 120K miles. Correct?  And the cost should be 230K?  Sorry, I know all the information is in the posts but I'm not sure I am remembering correctly and I have tried to go back and pull the information I need, but there are a lot of posts to go through. Hopefully this is an easy answer/confirmation for someone experienced with them.


----------



## Safti

If you are an owner, then just call owner services and they will help you with this.


----------



## Fasttr

Born2Travel said:


> Travel Package newbie here - I know, a little late to the game...but I want to buy a 5 night travel package and have read through most of the posts.  I think what I need to do is call MVCI (which Dept is this? Customer Service?) And ask for Cat 1-5 pkg with 120K miles. Correct?  And the cost should be 230K?  Sorry, I know all the information is in the posts but I'm not sure I am remembering correctly and I have tried to go back and pull the information I need, but there are a lot of posts to go through. Hopefully this is an easy answer/confirmation for someone experienced with them.


The 120K miles depends on the airline, but if for example, you are transferring to American (there are others in this category too), then yes, you can get 120K miles transferred and a category 1-5 would cost you 235K MR points.  And you call the normal MVC VOA line just as if you were going to do something with your timeshare week/points.  And they can even book a Marriott hotel for you with your 5 night package if you already know what you want to do with it.

When you call, just tell them you want to purchase a 5 night travel package, tell them you want a category 1-5 and which airline you want the miles to go to, and tell them that you want the maximum airline miles that can be transferred and they can confirm the # of airlines miles that would go to your specific airline.


----------



## CalGalTraveler

Is it possible to book a travel package from my Marriott Rewards account and assign the United points to my DH's UAL account but keep the hotel cert in my Marriott account?  Just consolidated DH SPG points into my account and would like to avoid delays and hassles of moving all the SPG points back to his account.


----------



## Fasttr

CalGalTraveler said:


> Is it possible to book a travel package from my Marriott Rewards account and assign the United points to my DH's UAL account but keep the hotel cert in my Marriott account?  Just consolidated DH SPG points into my account and would like to avoid delays and hassles of moving all the SPG points back to his account.


I believe the name on the MR account and the name on the Airline rewards account has to be exactly the same for the transfer to occur.  At least they made a point to ask me about it during my recent TP transactions.


----------



## kds4

CalGalTraveler said:


> Is it possible to book a travel package from my Marriott Rewards account and assign the United points to my DH's UAL account but keep the hotel cert in my Marriott account?  Just consolidated DH SPG points into my account and would like to avoid delays and hassles of moving all the SPG points back to his account.



I believe it is only from your MR account to your FF account. From there you can share/transfer as the airline allows.


----------



## NboroGirl

Yes, the owner name and the FF name must match.


----------



## SMB1

JanT said:


> Yes, your account would have to be open for 30 days before she could transfer points to you.



Okay. Thank you.


----------



## hangloose

QQ:  Is the expiration date on a vacation package hotel certificate the date of check-in, or check-out?  

IE. Hotel VP expires on July 1, 2019.  Does that mean a check-in on July 1, 2019 is acceptable even though check-out would be later that week past expiration?


----------



## hangloose

icydog said:


> In case you need it here’s the 5 night point chart:
> 
> 5 Nights + 50k Miles 5 Nights + 70k Miles 5 Nights + 100k Miles 5 Nights + 120k Miles
> Category 1-5 165k 185k 215k 235k
> Category 6 180k 200k 230k 250k
> Category 7 200k 220k 250k 270k
> Category 8 230k 250k 280k 300k



Is there a Category 9 point list for the 5 night vacation packages?  Didn't see it posted.  I'm guessing it would just go up by 30k from Cat8 to Cat9?  Can someone confirm.

EDIT:  Found my own answer.  Bump is 45k, not 30k.  Ugh. I was hoping it was 30k. :/

Category 9 275k 295k 325k 345k


----------



## Saintsfanfl

hangloose said:


> Is there a Category 9 point list for the 5 night vacation packages?  Didn't see it posted.  I'm guessing it would just go up by 30k from Cat8 to Cat9?  Can someone confirm.
> 
> EDIT:  Found my own answer.  Bump is 45k, not 30k.  Ugh. I was hoping it was 30k. :/
> 
> Category 9 275k 295k 325k 345k



None of the bumps are equal. 15k->20k->30k->45k. It get's much, much, much worse in the new system. 7 will be the new 9 and it will be 240k higher than cat 1-4 which is the new cat 1-5. Current difference is only 110k. And this is all for 100k miles rather than 120k. Major devaluation.


----------



## Born2Travel

Safti said:


> If you are an owner, then just call owner services and they will help you with this.



Done.   Very quick and easy.  Thanks!


----------



## Born2Travel

Fasttr said:


> When you call, just tell them you want to purchase a 5 night travel package, tell them you want a category 1-5 and which airline you want the miles to go to, and tell them that you want the maximum airline miles that can be transferred and they can confirm the # of airlines miles that would go to your specific airline.



Done.  Thanks!  The call went well since I knew what to ask for.


----------



## rsackett

Any rumors on what will happen to 5 or 7 night hotel certs that are in your account when the change takes place?


----------



## MOXJO7282

rsackett said:


> Any rumors on what will happen to 5 or 7 night hotel certs that are in your account when the change takes place?


Nothing should happen. They should perform the same.


----------



## janej

But the new category is different than the old one, right?    Aren't they going to map them to the new category?


----------



## rsackett

janej said:


> But the new category is different than the old one, right?    Aren't they going to map them to the new category?



That is exactly what I was wondering.  Say you have a Category 5 certificate what will it be in the new system?


----------



## kds4

janej said:


> But the new category is different than the old one, right?    Aren't they going to map them to the new category?



They will, but how is unknown.


----------



## kds4

rsackett said:


> That is exactly what I was wondering.  Say you have a Category 5 certificate what will it be in the new system?



If they map by point value, the old 5 will be the new 4.


----------



## janej

I am still trying to decide if I should go for Cat 5 or Cat 8.   The difference for 5 days is 65k which I have.   But some resort did not change points required at all so I could just save some points to use for 1-2 days.


----------



## controller1

*No Modifications to Travel Package Certificates from August 18 - September 18*

About an hour ago, a Marriott representative posted this in a FlyerTalk forum:

_If you currently have a Travel Package Certificate that’s not yet attached to a hotel reservation, you have the following options:

- If you know when you want to travel, make a new reservation or attach your certificate to an existing one prior to August 18, 2018.

- If you are still trying to plan that perfect trip, you can hold onto the certificate and will be able to add it to a reservation starting September 18, 2018.

Please note that you will not be able to modify your certificate for an existing reservation or attach it to a new one between August 18 and September 18, 2018. Please plan accordingly._


----------



## 1Kflyerguy

controller1 said:


> *No Modifications to Travel Package Certificates from August 18 - September 18*
> 
> About an hour ago, a Marriott representative posted this in a FlyerTalk forum:
> 
> _If you currently have a Travel Package Certificate that’s not yet attached to a hotel reservation, you have the following options:
> 
> - If you know when you want to travel, make a new reservation or attach your certificate to an existing one prior to August 18, 2018.
> 
> - If you are still trying to plan that perfect trip, you can hold onto the certificate and will be able to add it to a reservation starting September 18, 2018.
> 
> Please note that you will not be able to modify your certificate for an existing reservation or attach it to a new one between August 18 and September 18, 2018. Please plan accordingly._



I just received an email from Marriott with this exact text, so sounds like the official policy everyone has been wanting.


----------



## StevenTing

1Kflyerguy said:


> I just received an email from Marriott with this exact text, so sounds like the official policy everyone has been wanting.



 It’s still doesn’t clarify anything with regard to transition of categories.


----------



## 1Kflyerguy

StevenTing said:


> It’s still doesn’t clarify anything with regard to transition of categories.



Correct.  Here is the fine print from the email 

*Our New Travel Packages will launch with our new loyalty program on 8/18/18. Certificates purchased on or after 8/18 are able to be used immediately. For certificates purchased prior to 8/18, we are working to convert your package and it will be available based on the new converted values on September 18, 2018."

I think this means they won't be canceling the certificates and returning points as some had speculated.  But the "new converted values"  could mean good or bad things...  I am hoping for good or at least fair...


----------



## kds4

1Kflyerguy said:


> Correct.  Here is the fine print from the email
> 
> *Our New Travel Packages will launch with our new loyalty program on 8/18/18. Certificates purchased on or after 8/18 are able to be used immediately. For certificates purchased prior to 8/18, we are working to convert your package and it will be available based on the new converted values on September 18, 2018."
> 
> I think this means they won't be canceling the certificates and returning points as some had speculated.  But the "new converted values"  could mean good or bad things...  I am hoping for good or at least fair...



I think the meaning is clear for packages that map exactly between the old and new values. For example, a Category 1-5 package accommodation certificate (AC) valued at up to 25k per night will become a Category 1-4 package AC also valued at up to 25k per night. What is unclear is what will become of those ACs that do not map exactly to a new value. Will they go up to the next closest category or will they go down to the next closest category? 

I expect it will be whatever change in value is the least impacting on Marriott. In other words, I do not expect to see an unattached 'old' value Category 7 AC (which is the highest current category) get mapped to a 'new' Category 8 value (which will be the highest future category - until Category 9 values are assigned next year).


----------



## PamMo

If you have an existing travel package with Cat 1-5 hotels and you're wondering where to get the most bang for your hotel certificate, you might find this interesting. The Points Guy lists the best category 1-5 hotels for 2018 -
https://thepointsguy.com/2018/03/best-marriott-category-1-5-hotels-in-2018/


----------



## ACP

Also received the email in the UK, the interesting paragraph for me is:
_Please note that whichever option you choose, from August 18 through September 18, you will not be able to modify your certificate for an existing reservation or attach it to a new one. Please plan accordingly._
This to me means that there will be no ability to change an existing certificate between the two dates.  *What it does not tell us is if after September 18 we will be able to extend a certificate or upgrade/downgrade to a different category.*
Like many who jumped into buying a number of TP before the changes we are holding onto certificates, it seems that we will now have to wait until September 18 before we know what we can and cannot do.
I would be interested to know what the MRP value if I cancelled the certificates for my certificates and put points back into my account
Interesting times!!


----------



## Saintsfanfl

ACP said:


> Also received the email in the UK, the interesting paragraph for me is:
> _Please note that whichever option you choose, from August 18 through September 18, you will not be able to modify your certificate for an existing reservation or attach it to a new one. Please plan accordingly._
> This to me means that there will be no ability to change an existing certificate between the two dates.  *What it does not tell us is if after September 18 we will be able to extend a certificate or upgrade/downgrade to a different category.*
> Like many who jumped into buying a number of TP before the changes we are holding onto certificates, it seems that we will now have to wait until September 18 before we know what we can and cannot do.
> I would be interested to know what the MRP value if I cancelled the certificates for my certificates and put points back into my account
> Interesting times!!



Is that even technically an option now? I didn’t think so. Otherwise people would just keep cancelling certificates and booking more packages to maximize the air miles even further. In the end it would result in a nearly 1:1 mrp to miles conversion. That’s a heavy loss for Marriott.


----------



## ACP

Saintsfanfl said:


> Is that even technically an option now? I didn’t think so. Otherwise people would just keep cancelling certificates and booking more packages to maximize the air miles even further. In the end it would result in a nearly 1:1 mrp to miles conversion. That’s a heavy loss for Marriott.


I spoke with Marriott Rewards in London after I posted and wanted to know the value of "cashing in" the hotel part of the package  - although they were unable to gain access to my account (Neither am I) as they are working on the system pending all the changes next week, the agent was very knowledgeable, apparently for a 7 night TP they can go on-line and tell you what points you get back but a 5 Night TP is paper based, so she was able to answer my query - I was told that all I would get back for 1 Cat 1-5 is 10,000 MRP, so there is no point in cashing in.
I advised that I was looking to extend my travel packages post 18th Sept and probably upgrade the Category and she confirmed that I can do that at the moment (prior to 18th Aug)  - when I asked about doing this post 18th Sept, she was not sure "The Agent Simply does not know" but at least it was not a NO you won't be able to do that.
I want to travel next September 2019 (I have a 241 BA ticket and lots of BA Avios miles as a result of buying a couple of TP), so will cross the pond and stay at both a MVC and a hotel that is currently Cat 6 but will go to a Cat 5, so I'm going to take a risk and not do anything at the moment, I will wait until 18th Sept then shortly after, call up see if I can extend my TP to Sept 2019 and then see if I can upgrade my 2 x Cat 1-5 Certificates to 2 New Cat 5 so it will be a 1 Cat jump.
Here's hoping.  Either way we will be coming over in Sept 19 courtesy of the 241 BA it's just hoping I can use my TP nights at the same time, if not, I will look to stay somewhere in Europe before the TP expires


----------



## WBP

In my opinion, this is another example of what happens when companies merge or are acquired, to become what looks and smells like a monopoly. I don't have data to support the following, but I'd be extremely interested to know what has happened to room rates at Marriott and Starwood hotels, in desirable destinations/markets, post-Marriott acquisition of Starwood. If this is anything like US Airways acquisition of American Airlines, the only thing that I've seen, post-US Airways acquisition of American Airlines, in markets controlled by US Airways or American Airlines, is higher airfares.

In my opinion, the Starwood Preferred Guest program was massacred by the changes to Marriott's (once) brand loyalty program, and I'm having a hard time finding many significant enhancements to the Marriott Rewards program, as spun by Mr. Flueck, of Marriott International, other than an expanse of the hotel network, leading to more hotels to redeem Marriott Rewards points.

Again, in my opinion, the consumer has been screwed, and Marriott International has accomplished two objectives (be they intentional or unintentional), M.I. has decreased their costs associated with the Marriott Rewards program (speculation, based on gut instinct), and the cost of the Marriott Rewards program for hotel owners, has similarly decreased (speculation, based on gut instinct) = increased profit for M.I. and M.I. Hotel Owners.

It will be interesting to see, given the fixed (Marriott Rewards) redemption value of Marriott Vacation Club timeshare weeks, and the diminishing value of Marriott Rewards points, if Marriott Vacation Club does anything to up the ante, on a transaction (exchange of Marriott timeshare week for Marriott Rewards points (= poor valuation of ownership maintenance fee to Marriott Rewards points (in many cases)) to restore some, once economic value to Marriott Vacation Ownership, OTHER THAN increasing/changing the potential uses for Marriott Vacation Club Destination Points (MVC's sales tool).

*Subscribe to Receive Ralph Nader's Weekly Columns and Alerts:*
*https://nader.org/*


----------



## rickandcindy23

It's not a monopoly because these hotels still have competition from IHG, Hilton, Carlson, and a few other chains.  

Airlines also have other competition, quite a bit of competition, which is why companies like Frontier and Spirit exist, to beat out the bigger guys and their ridiculously high airfares, but they took away benefits people need, like a free bag check, free carryon and assigned seats.  They also moved the seats closer, so less legroom (2-4" less legroom than Southwest).  Then the big guys decided to have a basic economy class without those benefits as well.  That just hurts the big guys.  

My sister is flying United to Maui to join us next week, and she and her husband do not have seats together.  

Southwest is THE competition for the big airlines.  And soon Southwest will add Hawaii.


----------



## JIMinNC

rickandcindy23 said:


> Southwest is THE competition for the big airlines.  And soon Southwest will add Hawaii.



I've never quite understood the enthusiasm many show towards Southwest. It's always come across to me as something of a cattle car. When we arrived in Los Cabos this past February on American, we had to deplane through the air stairs due to congestion at the jetway gates that Saturday afternoon. We passed these big queues of Southwest passengers standing there on an outdoor ramp, lining up to board two Southwest flights. I've generally seen them as only a small notch above the Spirits and Frontiers of the world. To fly to Hawaii from Charlotte on Southwest will probably take three or more stops - at least one stop to get to the west coast, plus the stop out there to switch to a Hawaii flight. No thanks.


----------



## mas

JIMinNC said:


> I've never quite understood the enthusiasm many show towards Southwest. It's always come across to me as something of a cattle car. When we arrived in Los Cabos this past February on American, we had to deplane through the air stairs due to congestion at the jetway gates that Saturday afternoon. We passed these big queues of Southwest passengers standing there on an outdoor ramp, lining up to board two Southwest flights. I've generally seen them as only a small notch above the Spirits and Frontiers of the world. To fly to Hawaii from Charlotte on Southwest will probably take three or more stops - at least one stop to get to the west coast, plus the stop out there to switch to a Hawaii flight. No thanks.


I agree.  Whenever I've flown Southwest, I've purchased a Group A upgrade so as to avoid being at the end of the cattle call and being left with only middle row seats. :-(


----------



## bogey21

Southwest is not luxury but it has its economic pluses like no baggage fees and no lost money when you cancel or change a reservation.  I flew them a lot back in the day when their Frequent Flyer Program was based on segments.  One of the reasons I liked this was that their free Award tickets were easily transferable and thus easily salable in the secondary market.  When they changed to basing their Awards on miles I pretty much stopped flying them...

George


----------



## lorribarnes

Good news.. here are the leaked terms and conditions for new Marriott Starwood merger..https://viewfromthewing.boardingare...ed-new-marriott-rewards-terms-and-conditions/


----------



## NboroGirl

I read this today on LoyaltyLobby.com by John Ollila:

_Yesterday I wrote about an email that Marriott Rewards has been sending out to some members who has Travel Package certificates sitting on their account attached or unattached._

_Marriott Rewards originally communicated that "floater certificates" would be converted to points. This doesn't, however, apply to these Travel Package Certificates. They will be converted to new certs (at what value is still unclear).  

After I published the piece yesterday, I received the following statement from the Marriott spokesperson:_
_*While we plan on sharing the full conversation chart on 8/18, I can let you know that all existing certificates will convert to similarly valued categories after that date.*_​_
The problem here is that the "converted values" that the sent email was referring to cannot align 100% because the current Travel Package award chart contains 7 packages and the new only 5.  
_
The accompanying Possible Conversion Chart shows:

_Cat 1-5 (25K)-->  Cat 1-4 (25K)
Cat 6,7 (30K, 35K) -->  Cat 5 (35K)
Cat 8,9, Tier 1-3 (40K, 45K, 50K)--> Cat 6 (50K)
Tier 4-5 (70K) --> Cat 8 (85K)

Looking at the current and the new values, I made an exercise what the conversation chart could be.  There aren't that many options in reality.  The sweet spot appears to be the current category 8 at 40k per night that they need to bump to 50k (new category 6).

Conclusion:  I still don't get it why Marriott Rewards cannot just release the conversation charts that they must have had available for months by now.  Cannot be any other reason that trying to prevent people to take advantage of any possible sweet spots and discourage these Travel Package redemptions that actually cost the program money.
_
So if this Marriott person is to be believed, there won't be points refunded on unused travel certificates... they will be mapped to the new charts, the but exactly how is still a mystery.


----------



## bobpark56

Fasttr said:


> I believe the name on the MR account and the name on the Airline rewards account has to be exactly the same for the transfer to occur.  At least they made a point to ask me about it during my recent TP transactions.


Thats what I was told, too...else your airline points disappear into thin air. I tried to contact Marriott Rewards to do this, but got cut off. Will try again Monday.


----------



## jpa2825

jpa2825 said:


> 60% is more optimistic than I would be. The factor they don't seem to take into account (or they took it into consideration but just don't think it means much) is that breaking 7 night stay certs into points makes redemption much easier / more likely. The circumstance where I need 7 straight nights at the SAME Cat5 hotel is much smaller than the ways I can use 150,000 MRPs! I can't see Marriott being generous and unlocking those handcuffs.
> 
> From the article, I think mapping to the new TP Categories is the way they will go because it doesn't unlock them. (Also, there will be so many moving parts that only the most dedicated folks are going to see the "gaps" they created.)
> 
> 1-5, 7 and Ritz Tier 1-3 are easy. They just get converted to 1-4, 5 & 6, respectively.
> 6 goes to 5 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
> 8 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 10k/nt.
> 9 goes to 6 and the cert holder "benefits" 5k/nt.
> Ritz Tier 4-5 goes to 8 and the cert holder "benefits" 15k/nt.
> They will deal with the complainers that call about "I bought Cat7 TP and got converted to the same cert that someone who bought a Cat6 TP did" on a one-off basis.



As previously suggested (link), arbitrage "sweet spots" (if you want to play that game) might be at pre-AUG 18, 2018 Cat6 & 8 (assuming OLD6 maps to NEW5 and OLD8 maps to NEW6). Least risk (to try to pick up a benefit) is OLD9 because it almost HAS to map to NEW6.

NOTE: in order to "unlock" these arbitrage benefits, you still have to find a hotel that matches that category in a place where you want to stay 5 or 7 nights in a row. If you have a NEW6 cert and the best hotel for a place you want to travel is a NEW5, you'll have to figure out if it makes sense to redeem it down and lose that benefit. Under that philosophy, an OLD6 is probably more valuable than an OLD8. If you have an OLD6 and find a Cat7 or Cat8 hotel that works for you for 5 or 7 straight nights, you will presumably be able to use points on the OLD6 cert to reserve it. If you "downgrade," I'm confident you don't get any refund of points.

What will they do for the OLD7 and OLD9 purchasers that get mapped to the same NEW CAT as OLD6 and OLD8? Maybe nothing. Maybe a few points? I don't think you'll see an announcement because then they have to do it for everyone. There will be a great # of such cert holders that won't even know or complain. 

My Delta FF account is fairly tapped out. I'm probably going to buy a couple of CAT6 TPs before the deadline just to replenish that account.


----------



## ACP

*MVC Owners that are Presidential or Chairmans Level will automatically be Platinum Premier Elite *

An extract from the leaked T&C's is very interesting, not sure if this has previously been confirmed

MVC Owners who achieve a “Presidential” or “Chairman’s Club” level of membership through their ownership of Marriott Vacation Club and/or and Marriott Grand Residence Club timeshare interests, or their enrollment in the MVC Exchange Program, and certain other individuals designated by an MVC Entity, may be offered Loyalty Program Platinum Premier Elite status, and are not subject to the Platinum Premier Elite Minimum Requirement to maintain Platinum Premier Elite status every year. ii. An MVC Owner will remain his or her Elite status, provided that such MVC Owner: (i) maintains his/her membership level through ownership of Marriott Vacation Club and/or and Marriott Grand Residence Club timeshare interests or enrollment in the MVC Exchange Program; (ii) is current in all maintenance fees, MVC Exchange Company dues, fees, taxes, and other payments; and (iii) is current in any other payments owed to any MVC Entity. iii. Elite status and any accumulated Points in an MVC Owner’s Loyalty Program Membership Account do not transfer upon sale of their timeshare interest to a third party.


----------



## Fasttr

Just received this email below..... it may be a good idea to take screen shots of your upcoming reservations, unattached certificates, lifetime nights and points, etc prior to August 15th just to be safe during this IT transition.  

_________________ 

Manage your account and reservations before planned, temporary disruptions starting August 15. 
While we work to launch our new combined program on August 18, our booking and loyalty systems, sites and Mobile app will be offline for several hours intermittently between August 15 and August 19.

During this period, you may experience disruptions with: 

•  Contacting Member Support  
•  Making a new reservation 
•  Managing an existing reservation  
•  Accessing or updating your account  
•  Using our Mobile app  
•  Using points  

If you need to manage your account or access upcoming reservations, please do so as soon as possible. Thanks for your patience.


----------



## JanT

NJDave,

Did your wife have to make the call to Marriott to transfer the points from her account to yours or were you able to do it?  I need to transfer points from my mom's account to mine and she isn't really up to waiting on the phone for an hour or more to make the transfer.  I'm hoping I can call and have them transferred myself.



NJDave said:


> I need to transfer more than the 50,000 points.  I had them transfer the 50,000 points yesterday which gave me enough points for one travel package.  I want to transfer 230,000 more points so I can book one more.  My wife has 234,000 points left. I have 7,000 left.


----------



## Quilter

PamMo said:


> If you have an existing travel package with Cat 1-5 hotels and you're wondering where to get the most bang for your hotel certificate, you might find this interesting. The Points Guy lists the best category 1-5 hotels for 2018 -
> https://thepointsguy.com/2018/03/best-marriott-category-1-5-hotels-in-2018/



I bought a Cat 6 and a 5 TP about a week ago.  It was difficult to decide where to park them.  When we finally made our plans I had qualms about the value I was getting for each of them.  Today I used this list and Checked the daily rates.  They were comparable to the ones I chose.

The value may be calculated on getting a hotel with the highest possible daily rate or you may personally calculate the value by finding a “nice” hotel in the location you want to travel.


----------



## Quilter

Be sure to confirm that your TP are actually attached to reservations you want them attached to.

On the 2 TP's I mentioned above the one in my account was attached but the one in DH's account wasn't.  I got through to MR and made sure it was attached.   I don't want these reverting to points.


----------



## StevenTing

Finally got my Cat 6 downgraded to a 5 and the Cat 7 upgraded to an 8. Tom about 40 minutes on the phone.  Most of it on hold.  However the rep was able to reduce the cash rate on one of my stays from $1225 down to $921.  Bonus!

One interesting thing when they reissued the certificates is that they show Points associates to it. It’s concerning but it may not matter.


----------



## Fasttr

StevenTing said:


> One interesting thing when they reissued the certificates is that they show Points associates to it. It’s concerning but it may not matter.


Yeah, that always happens whenever you extend, upgrade or downgrade one.  I believe that is the points they would give you back if you just all out cancelled it.  Won't matter if you actually end up using it for a stay.


----------



## deniseh

I just purchased a 5 night TP with miles for American Airlines.  How long does it usually take to see the miles be put in my AA account?


----------



## Fasttr

deniseh said:


> I just purchased a 5 night TP with miles for American Airlines.  How long does it usually take to see the miles be put in my AA account?


I did one to AA a couple weeks ago.  Called MR to get the TP on a Saturday, points booked the next Tuesday....so only a few days.


----------



## janej

How long does it take for the TP and miles to show up in your accounts?

I just ordered through MVC.   The lady I spoke to said it went through and should show in my account immediately.    I don't see it.   My points are still in my account.  The problem is that she used my husband's United account and my Marriott account.   She made a note of the potential issue but could not do anything with it now.


----------



## Fasttr

janej said:


> How long does it take for the TP and miles to show up in your accounts?
> 
> I just ordered through MVC.   The lady I spoke to said it went through and should show in my account immediately.    I don't see it.   My points are still in my account.  The problem is that she used my husband's United account and my Marriott account.   She made a note of the potential issue but could not do anything with it now.


TP should be instantly in your account, but I have noticed it may not show up when signing on via a computer until the following day.  In those cases however, it did seem to show up correctly when I signed on via my phone app.


----------



## ljmiii

Fasttr said:


> TP should be instantly in your account, but I have noticed it may not show up when signing on via a computer until the following day.  In those cases however, it did seem to show up correctly when I signed on via my phone app.


Interesting. I've never used the app for anything but same day travel information so my (desktop) experience is that United miles 'show up' overnight.


----------



## controller1

janej said:


> How long does it take for the TP and miles to show up in your accounts?
> 
> I just ordered through MVC.   The lady I spoke to said it went through and should show in my account immediately.    I don't see it.   My points are still in my account.  The problem is that she used my husband's United account and my Marriott account.   She made a note of the potential issue but could not do anything with it now.



Won't this transfer for the airline miles just hang in limbo?  Doesn't the names on the United account and Marriott accounts need to match?


----------



## janej

controller1 said:


> Won't this transfer for the airline miles just hang in limbo?  Doesn't the names on the United account and Marriott accounts need to match?


That is my understanding too.   However, she did not pay attention when I told her I want to buy TP using my husband's account.   She used my Marriott Points account and asked me for the United account number.   My United account number is actually linked to my Marriott account too.


----------



## VacationForever

janej said:


> That is my understanding too.   However, she did not pay attention when I told her I want to buy TP using my husband's account.   She used my Marriott Points account and asked me for the United account number.   My United account number is actually linked to my Marriott account too.


To my understanding, if you wanted to use your husband's account, he had to be the one to make the call.  I can see why the agent got confused.


----------



## janej

She did not mention that though.   We are on the same MVC account.   I was going to purchase 2 TP using his account.   She did the first one from mine and 2nd from his account.   So far, nothing showed up.   Either account got points deducted.   Hope I will see some updates tomorrow.   If anyone is still waiting to buy TP, do it now so that you will see it before the system goes down.


----------



## controller1

janej said:


> That is my understanding too.   However, she did not pay attention when I told her I want to buy TP using my husband's account.   She used my Marriott Points account and asked me for the United account number.   My United account number is actually linked to my Marriott account too.



Interesting that the agent asked you for the United account number.  On the SPG side, if we should call and transfer Starpoints to airline miles or purchase a Flights & Nights package, we are only able to transfer to airline frequent flyer numbers that are listed in our online profile.  I guess that is a safety measure to prevent sending points to an airline frequent flyer account that is not associated with the hotel loyalty account.


----------



## janej

I thought Marriott used to work the same way too.  So I did not have the United account numbers with me when I called.   I had to locate number while she waited.

Now the points are deducted and TP showed up online.  But no miles yet.   How long does it take to post the miles?


----------



## TXTortoise

My United were posted within a day. American took 3-4 days if I remember correctly. Pretty much inline with what they stated on website.


----------



## Steve Fatula

janej said:


> I thought Marriott used to work the same way too.  So I did not have the United account numbers with me when I called.   I had to locate number while she waited.
> 
> Now the points are deducted and TP showed up online.  But no miles yet.   How long does it take to post the miles?



 My United miles showed up the next day on united.com


----------



## janej

Steve,

Do you remember it is first thing in the morning or 24 hours?   Mine has not shown up yet.

Thanks,

Jane


----------



## bazzap

My United and BA Miles have always shown up when I check first thing in the morning, whatever time i ordered them the previous day.


----------



## Steve Fatula

janej said:


> Steve,
> 
> Do you remember it is first thing in the morning or 24 hours?   Mine has not shown up yet.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jane



I do not, but I almost certainly did not check first thing in the morning.


----------



## SMB1

My United mile didn't show up for several days.  When I called the rep put in a work order something to track them down.  They were in the account the next day.


----------



## winger

bogey21 said:


> Southwest is not luxury but it has its economic pluses like no baggage fees and no lost money when you cancel or change a reservation.    ...
> 
> George


  We totally got on board with SWA about three years ago because of their no baggage fees and VERY CUSTOMER FRIENDLY no change/cancellation fees. AND, for icing on the cake, if fares ever drop before your flight, you can get a refund of the difference (by calling or cancel/rebook online yourself).  I found their crew is generally very upbeat, flights have always on time for us, and their economy seems to have a decent amount of legroom.


----------



## winger

kds4 said:


> If they map by point value, the old 5 will be the new 4.


This is somewhat related, but I just got off the phone with a Loyalty Care (former Platinum) rep.  He mentioned IF I cancelled my category 8 certificate stay after Aug 18th, 2018, I can use that certificate at _*any*_ category 8 hotel in the new, updated system.  If what he is saying were true, this is a huge upgrade !  He basically said Marriott decided to take the worth as viewed from # of points perspective and just keep it simple and value existing travel package certificates from a category perspective (meaning no mapping using before-change to after-change chart).


----------



## janej

Does that mean we have to attach the certificates to a reservation?


----------



## GaryDouglas

I find it interesting that the new 5 night package details have not been released yet.  Don't know what to make of it...


----------



## winger

janej said:


> Does that mean we have to attach the certificates to a reservation?


No, but since no information has been released, it is anyone's guess what happens to un-attached hotel stay (accommodation) certificates after Aug 18, 2018.


----------



## winger

GaryDouglas said:


> I find it interesting that the new 5 night package details have not been released yet.  Don't know what to make of it...


Is Marriott purposely hiding something OR they missed this ?


----------



## NJDave

JanT said:


> NJDave,
> 
> Did your wife have to make the call to Marriott to transfer the points from her account to yours or were you able to do it?  I need to transfer points from my mom's account to mine and she isn't really up to waiting on the phone for an hour or more to make the transfer.  I'm hoping I can call and have them transferred myself.




I'm sorry, I didn't see your post.  I tried calling several times when she was around but the Marriott system was down each time I called. After getting nowhere, I finally transferred the points from her Marriott account to her Starwood account and then to my Starwood account and finally to my Marriott account. Since it took a few days for the transfer between our Starwood accounts, it is too late to do now.  I was able to do it online (with her permission of course).


----------



## JanT

Dave, no worries.  My husband ended up being here when I made the transfer.  It has been an experience to try to move points over, that's for sure.  I couldn't believe it took 5 days to transfers points between our Starwood accounts.



NJDave said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't see your post.  I tried calling several times when she was around but the Marriott system was down each time I called. After getting nowhere, I finally transferred the points from her Marriott account to her Starwood account and then to my Starwood account and finally to my Marriott account. Since it took a few days for the transfer between our Starwood accounts, it is too late to do now.  I was able to do it online (with her permission of course).


----------



## GaryDouglas

Yesterday was supposedly the last day...


----------



## rovitm

I know it’s all over the blogs, but has there been anything official from Marriott saying existing travel certificates can’t be upgraded or downgraded?


----------



## StevenTing

Figured I’d post this here.  

This is not a generous conversion at all.


----------



## SMB1

StevenTing said:


> Figured I’d post this here.
> 
> This is not a generous conversion at all.



Oh.... The old 30,000 points in high season trick. Sneaky.


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## StevenTing

Lot of angry people over at FT. I would be too. Luckily I was able to downgrade/upgrade and get exactly what I needed.


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## billymach4

StevenTing said:


> Lot of angry people over at FT. I would be too. Luckily I was able to downgrade/upgrade and get exactly what I needed.


Can somebody please explain how this affects Marriott Reward Points converting to travel packages  five night and Delta SkyMiles points


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## VacationForever

StevenTing said:


> Figured I’d post this here.
> 
> This is not a generous conversion at all.


Is this official?


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## Luvtoride

VacationForever said:


> Is this official?



The web site is back up as I checked a few minutes ago 545 AM here on the East Coast and these are indeed the new category and point totals.  

My Hotel I just booked in Paris for a 5night stay in April next year went from 180,000points to 300,000 points!  Talk about devaluation!  Glad I listened to all of you tuggers and booked a few days ago!  Thanks everyone.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## l0410z

StevenTing said:


> Figured I’d post this here.
> 
> This is not a generous conversion at all.


I saw this posted as someones guess of what us going to happen.  Is this off the Marriott website or from otger Marriott source?


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## ann824

My five night travel packages still say Category 1-5 and category 6.  I wonder if they will change them to category 1-4.  I never got the email about attaching them before August 18th.  It will be interesting to see what they do to the 5 night packages.


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## NJDave

StevenTing said:


> Figured I’d post this here.
> 
> This is not a generous conversion at all.



Thanks for posting. 

I was able to lock in an old category 6 that moved to a category 5.  I'm glad I attached the certificate because with the unfavorable conversion of the old 6 (to a new category 4), I would not be able to reserve it today.  I also have an old category 7 that I can not attach yet to the hotel I want.  That hotel is going to a new category 5, so I'll be OK with that conversion when it opens up.   Thanks to all the reports and advice on TUG, I was able to accomplish what I wanted.  I already have the airfare booked as well.


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## nanceetom

We had a real mess attaching a category 8, 5 day certificate for a place in Italy.  The Marriott rep said since it was going to a 7, she would return points and then book as a 7.  I knew this didn't sound correct.  She then played around with my husband's points.  It took 6-7 hours to finally get a supervisor, who then put the points back in to make it a category 8 and then said, it would be wise to upgrade to a 9.  This was at 9:30 EST Friday night.  The reservation seems correct, points are not.   Question, this is booked for May of 2019, if we want to extend and book same hotel for Ocotber, 2019, will it stay as it is or will it revert to the new point system.  When you ask the marriott reps, they all say, 'no problem', yet, we have had so many misinformed comments in the last 2 weeks from them.


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## jeff76543

StevenTing said:


> Figured I’d post this here.
> 
> This is not a generous conversion at all.



It seems that those who had category 9 certificates (and Tier 1-3) are the only ones who received a generous conversion.


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## ljmiii

StevenTing said:


> Figured I’d post this here....This is not a generous conversion at all.


Eh...it is pretty much what I expected except for the Cat 9 conversion which was definitely the high risk/high reward gamble. I suppose in Marriott's mind the conversion IS generous once the 'peak' penalty is taken into account.


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## SueDonJ

_*Thread locked, see this: Official changes to Marriott Rewards program effective 8/18/18*_


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