# Worldmark questions



## tug1873 (Jul 26, 2013)

I am thinking about buying a worldmark contract. It seems like it would be a great addition to travel the west coast. I assume the availbilty is much like wyndham

What are some of things I should look for and what is reasonable to pay for a smaller contract? I was thinking about 2k for a 6000 point contract.  I have seen some brokers websites who specialize in worldmark. Prices seem to be ok. Does it make sense to buy there? I figured a 6k contract and then add another one if I like what I see in a year or so.

Also I know you can rent points to other members how much does a person usually get for them. Does it usually pay the mf on the contract if you decide to not use them.

I am not sure if I can use every year because of other timeshares i have but having the option to sell points to cover mf would be a great option.


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## CO skier (Jul 26, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> I am thinking about buying a worldmark contract.  ...



Many of your questions have been answered in this thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145279

and this one:

http://69.16.236.4/~tugbbsc/forums/showthread.php?t=183497

and if you decide to purchase a WM membership, here are some details of the process:

http://69.16.236.4/~tugbbsc/forums/showthread.php?t=183497


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## CraigWMF (Jul 26, 2013)

I have bought and sold credits on my account over the years.   I only went with a well established company.   WorldMark is a lot of fun and you should really enjoy being a member.


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## cotraveller (Jul 26, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> Also I know you can rent points to other members how much does a person usually get for them. Does it usually pay the mf on the contract if you decide to not use them.
> 
> I am not sure if I can use every year because of other timeshares i have but having the option to sell points to cover mf would be a great option.



The WorldMark Monday Madness and current Summer Madness specials which allow booking at 7 cents per credit put an upper limit on the maximum rate you can get on WorldMark credit rentals.  Given a choice of booking direct with WorldMark at 7 cents or dealing with a credit rental, often with unknown people, most owners would opt for the direct WorldMark booking even if it costs a little more.  There is no risk involved and if you need to cancel a reservation you get your money refunded.


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## GregT (Jul 26, 2013)

cotraveller said:


> The WorldMark Monday Madness and current Summer Madness specials which allow booking at 7 cents per credit put an upper limit on the maximum rate you can get on WorldMark credit rentals.  Given a choice of booking direct with WorldMark at 7 cents or dealing with a credit rental, often with unknown people, most owners would opt for the direct WorldMark booking even if it costs a little more.  There is no risk involved and if you need to cancel a reservation you get your money refunded.



This is a great way to stretch credits -- I need 3,000 credits next month for a reservation in September 2014 and I planned to rent them.   However, I realized that I was holding a 4,500 credit reservation in November for my Dad, and so I booked a cash rental for the reservation for my Dad instead, and canceled my existing reservation, restoring my 4,500 credits and HK token.   

It cost me $315 for the cash reservation, but the value of the credits and token were approx. $350 -- so I saved a little bit of money and it was very fast and easy.

Worldmark rocks.

Best,

Greg


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## Rent_Share (Jul 26, 2013)

cotraveller said:


> The WorldMark Monday Madness and current Summer Madness specials which allow booking at 7 cents per credit put an upper limit on the maximum rate you can get on WorldMark credit rentals. Given a choice of booking direct with WorldMark at 7 cents or dealing with a credit rental, often with unknown people, most owners would opt for the direct WorldMark booking even if it costs a little more. There is no risk involved and if you need to cancel a reservation you get your money refunded.


 
That will impact prices for anther 6 days when the promotion ends


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## cotraveller (Jul 26, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> That will impact prices for anther 6 days when the promotion ends



Not true unless Monday Madness ends too.  Monday Madness tends to rotate through all of the WorldMark resorts so if you keep an eye on it you can still get the resort you want for cash.  Been there, done that.

If you are a TravelShare Elite owner (20,000 or more WorldMark TravelShare credits) the Summer and Monday Madness rate is only 6 cents per credit which drives the rental price down further.

Even if Monday Madness ends I doubt that rental credits would go any higher. They held steady for a long time and only creeped up a little in the last year or so.


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## sue1947 (Jul 26, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> I am thinking about buying a worldmark contract. It seems like it would be a great addition to travel the west coast. I assume the availbilty is much like wyndham
> 
> What are some of things I should look for and what is reasonable to pay for a smaller contract? I was thinking about 2k for a 6000 point contract.  I have seen some brokers websites who specialize in worldmark. Prices seem to be ok. Does it make sense to buy there? I figured a 6k contract and then add another one if I like what I see in a year or so.
> 
> ...



For reviews of various WM resellers see http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=72

Sue


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## benyu2010 (Jul 26, 2013)

The real rate of credit ties to marketable value of reservations.

Monday Madness and this newly Summer Madness are both availability basis programs. Their rates do not represent the ceiling of credit rental rate, they represent the ( near ) floor price of credit rental rate. It's the rate for leftovers. The valuable inventories are high demand red season weeks that solidly book up 13 month (maybe + couple of days) in advance. FAX, at 8 cents (HK included) is the only cash option to book that these inventories other than credits. This FAX option is limited to once in every five years. 

Due to the liquidity and abundant supply of the market during recession, the credit rental rate hovered around the floor rate. In a more balanced market, the credit rental rate may trend closer or at FAX rate, 7.3~7.5 after deduction of HK cost. 

6~7 is pretty much the ongoing unless our memory of recession pricing does not fade. There are fewer and fewer distressed owners to sell at whatever price to cover the cost. We will see more seasonal spikes of credit rental rate if this trend continues...


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## benyu2010 (Jul 26, 2013)

TUGGERs are a smart bunch among timeshare owners. We don't buy unless it costs significant more to rent. For Worldmark, there is another layer of thinking, we don't buy large account unless rental rate is too high and too much hassle and short of supply. Well, economy has improved and market are more transparent, it is not rocket science to figure the outcome...


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## jdunn1 (Jul 26, 2013)

I only own 5k wm points so I am always renting points. I save the points for interval and Rci trades.  I have to point out  that renting points from owners has gotten more expensive and when someone offers points you better respond to their add immediately and give asking price.  I'd say the going rental rate for 10k points is at least 750.00. Used to be more like 650.00 just a year or so ago.


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## cotraveller (Jul 27, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> Monday Madness and this newly Summer Madness are both availability basis programs. Their rates do not represent the ceiling of credit rental rate, they represent the ( near ) floor price of credit rental rate. It's the rate for leftovers. The valuable inventories are high demand red season weeks that solidly book up 13 month (maybe + couple of days) in advance. FAX, at 8 cents (HK included) is the only cash option to book that these inventories other than credits. This FAX option is limited to once in every five years.



Yes, the high demand resorts need to be booked 13 months in advance, maybe with a few throwaway days.  That is beyond the booking window for the Madness specials, you need to use credits for those reservations.

But as GregT pointed out with his example, you can free up credits from existing reservations at resorts that don't book up that far in advance using the Madness specials.  I have an existing reservation at WorldMark Las Vegas for later this fall, booked with credits.  There is still lots of availability that far out for Las Vegas.  If I needed more credits in my account I could rebook that reservation using the Summer Madness special and then cancel the existing credit reservation I have.  Then I would have credits in my account for booking those hard to get reservations for next year August and September or later.  

No credit rental hassles, no waiting for credit transfers, no risk. The cost is 7 cents per credit, plus I get a housekeeping token returned to my account which makes the actual cost around 6.5 cents.  That establishes the credit rental price ceiling for me.


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## PassionForTravel (Jul 27, 2013)

Personally I would go with 10k credits over 6k credits for the follow reasons. It's more MF efficient since MF are on the 2.5 k boundary so 6k is much more expensive per credit, second at any given time you have access to 20k credits instead of 12k because of being able to borrow next years credits for free. This is really handy if you need to book multiple reservations with the possibility that one will get cancelled.

Ian


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## benyu2010 (Jul 27, 2013)

Fred,

1st, Summer Madness is promo, which only lasts less than 10 days. Predictably, it would repeat a few times. The rate is subject to change and would increase, historically speaking. It is more of one-time special than long term splution for credit rental;

2st, The credit rental rate reflects the arbitrary value of the whole system and affected by supply and demand of the market. Roughly 35% of worldmark inventories are booked up 13 month in advanced, about 20%~25% actually occupied after the cancellations. These reservations are booked by credits. They are the market demand because the actual reservation worth much more than the 6.5 per credit.

3rd, GregT's case is typical availability basis booking where reservations fairly represent value of average credit rate. Thus, availability is anticipated. This type of reservation represent nearly half of the inventories. My reasoning of MM or SM rate representing near floor price is these reservations would have to be occupied by credits if no such promo exists. Demand of 2nd para is more than overall supply based on current market condition (more owners use their credits for whatever they can find). So, owners would only rent out no less than what they may get. Plus, WM credit has long shelf life.

4th, If you look around, there are actual transactions and references. They are cold hard facts. As I said, TUGGERs are a smart bunch, we won't pay $1 more unless we have to.

6.5 is not hard bottom, nor ceiling. It is just one buyer and one seller for whatever they like. Also, market factors are mostly negative for secondary, such as lack of creditability, distress and transaction cost. I think we may agree 6ish is pretty much where market would settle in near future.


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## tug1873 (Jul 27, 2013)

It sounds like I may need about 12-15k credits long term to make things work. That should get me a week wherever I want . It also sounds like I should plan 13 months ahead. That is not a problem for me that is what do now.

It also looks like at that point rental or purchase of points makes the most sense if you can plan long term. 

So I can plan 13 months out and if I don't want to use them for the year I just rent those points to someone and my fees will be covered.

I can see why worldmark goes for a premium. The risk is this feature goes away.


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## PassionForTravel (Jul 27, 2013)

Tug1873 the problem with 12K & 15K is that you still only get 1 HK so you can't split your credits between two or more locations (one of WM best features as far as I'm concerned) without paying a housekeeping. The second HK token doesn't come until 20K. 

With 10K you get one HK token and you also have access to next years token and credits. So at any one time you can make a reservation up to 20K and 2 HK tokens. Then when you have your reservation, rent credits and tokens from other users, the nightly credit shuffle will then move those credits/tokens into your reservations and give you your "to borrow" credits back. This way it keeps your initial investment down until you figure out if you like the system. 

Also unlike WYN you don't have to use your credits all in one year. With WM you can borrow next years credits. Once credits are awarded you have two years to use them. With credits ready to expire you can still make a reservation 13 months out. So effectively you have 4 years to use credits. That's why we've never had to rent ours out (yet), even if we don't use our credits one year we can always use them the next year.

Also on the 13 month booking rule there are a lot of resorts which don't need to be booked 13 months out. You didn't say where you plan on using your credits but here are general rules on what needs to be booked at 13 months out. Mostly summer but some places Christmas/New Years. The Pacific Northwest especially by the coast in the summer. Tahoe, Yellowstone, Yosemite, CA Coast in summer. Hawaii most of the year. Indio/Palm Springs in the spring. The older resorts which take less credits, especially in the summer. I'm sure I've missed some but it's certainly not the whole system.

Ian


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## tug1873 (Jul 27, 2013)

My reasoning for 10-13k points is based on the points it looks like costs to reserve.  I want to access a weeks worth of travel at a time every year. 

I think the resorts that are most desirable to me are New Brunfels TX in the spring for wildflowers, Central California, Napa wine country, Maui, and Victoria. Almost all it being peak travel times with mostly Summer or christmas travel.

I have a feeling most of those are high demand areas. Since I travel in those times of the year planning a year out is not a big deal and I almost prefer it.

I am thinking I will start out with 6k credits. It looks like I may have to pay closer to 2k then the 1k I was hoping I could find them for. 

The part about being able to rent out points you don't need use  sounds  almost too good a deal to be true.  Upfront costs doesn't scare me as much as having not enough points or having to find them somewhere.


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## benyu2010 (Jul 27, 2013)

Every transfe ( whether someone to yo or you combine two own contract) costs $299, regardless of account size, which you may have to factor in. WM also trades extremely well through RCI and II. So you initial asssement of 10K+ is good.


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## PearlCity (Jul 28, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> My reasoning for 10-13k points is based on the points it looks like costs to reserve.  I want to access a weeks worth of travel at a time every year.
> 
> I think the resorts that are most desirable to me are New Brunfels TX in the spring for wildflowers, Central California, Napa wine country, Maui, and Victoria. Almost all it being peak travel times with mostly Summer or christmas travel.
> 
> ...




But if you a need a starter size 10 k is a good one then rent your extra points. If you need more points to your contract you can add in 10 k increments. It's not the upfront cost but theaintenance fee efficiency Ian was talking about as well as housekeeping tokens. 
.
Also your points are good for 2 years so if you make your 13 month reservation you can cancell and make another. It's 2 years to get your points into a reservation, not to actually use. So if your points expire on June 30, 2014, if you get them in a reservation by that date for use in 2015 its still good. 

Renting points is relatively easy. And wm has a lot of specials and fax time credits you can rent to stretch your points good luck!


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