# Open Season Rates have been Increased



## Tamaradarann (Dec 4, 2015)

I just checked and some open season rates have been increased starting January 1, 2016.  The Open Season Rates for Hawaii, both Honolulu and Waikaloa, have been increased by about 10% for the first 2 days of 2016 which are the only ones available in 2016 at this time.

I checked a few other resorts and didn't find any increase, but there could be others that I just didn't find or don't have any availability to be able to analyze.


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## presley (Dec 4, 2015)

I was expecting it to happen. I figured when they backed down last year after all the complaints, they would just factor in small increases each year. I'm glad that you found some that didn't have in increase, though.


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## Jason245 (Dec 4, 2015)

7% increase in Club Dues
15% increase on reservation fees (as reported by someone)
10% increase on Open Season rates

This is either a cash grab, or the worst run operation on the planet given that there was hardly any inflation in 2015.


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## natarajanv (Dec 4, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> 7% increase in Club Dues
> 15% increase on reservation fees (as reported by someone)
> 10% increase on Open Season rates
> 
> This is either a cash grab, or the worst run operation on the planet given that there was hardly any inflation in 2015.



Can you post the actual $$

club dues
reservation fees
rescue/deposit fee


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## Jason245 (Dec 4, 2015)

natarajanv said:


> Can you post the actual $$
> 
> club dues
> reservation fees
> rescue/deposit fee



http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234193


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## David M (Dec 4, 2015)

natarajanv said:


> Can you post the actual $$
> 
> club dues
> reservation fees
> rescue/deposit fee



I don't think they've been published yet .. the fee schedule link still brings up the 2015 rates: https://www.hgvclub.com/pdf/FeeSchedule.pdf

That said ... those of us that have paid our maintenance fees, already know the club dues went up to $150 (from $140) for US/Canadian owners.


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## jestme (Dec 4, 2015)

Tamaradarann said:


> I just checked and some open season rates have been increased starting January 1, 2016.  The Open Season Rates for Hawaii, both Honolulu and Waikaloa, have been increased by about 10% for the first 2 days of 2016 which are the only ones available in 2016 at this time.
> 
> I checked a few other resorts and didn't find any increase, but there could be others that I just didn't find or don't have any availability to be able to analyze.



Hmmm. I made a reservation for Dec 31, Jan 1 1BR+ at Hokulani. Price was 358.97. (Thursday night and Friday) I checked (but didn't book) a 1BR+ this morning for Jan 1-2 and it was the same price. 
I have two old 1BR+ reservations from 2014 at the HHV. One for Wed-Thursday for 330.48 or 165.24 each for a weekday and 387.46 or 193.73 each for a Friday or Saturday. 165.24+193.73 = 358.97, so my latest 1BR+ reservation is the same price as it was in 2014. 
What room type did you check in Hawaii? Are you sure it isn't the "taxes" they add on to the reservations that makes the pricing different from the listed Open Season prices?


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 5, 2015)

*Checked the Rates Again, They are UP but…!*



jestme said:


> Hmmm. I made a reservation for Dec 31, Jan 1 1BR+ at Hokulani. Price was 358.97. (Thursday night and Friday) I checked (but didn't book) a 1BR+ this morning for Jan 1-2 and it was the same price.
> I have two old 1BR+ reservations from 2014 at the HHV. One for Wed-Thursday for 330.48 or 165.24 each for a weekday and 387.46 or 193.73 each for a Friday or Saturday. 165.24+193.73 = 358.97, so my latest 1BR+ reservation is the same price as it was in 2014.
> What room type did you check in Hawaii? Are you sure it isn't the "taxes" they add on to the reservations that makes the pricing different from the listed Open Season prices?



After reading your note I checked the rates again.  I am Elite Plus and have been since 2009 so I get a 15% discount.  All these rates are for the Hokulani.  Last year I booked a 1BR+ for January 1-2 which was a Thurs/Fri and the cost was $305.13.  This year a One BR+ for January 1-2 is $353.56.  Since that is a Fri/Sat I checked Jan 2-3 this morning and it is also $353.56 which should be the same as a Thurs/Fri.  I also checked December 19-20 of 2015 which is a Sat/Sun and it is $305.13 the same as I paid last January for a Sat/Sun.  I also contacted Barbara Rinks of HGVC and she said that the rates were going to be higher in 2016 for the more sort after locations such as Hawaii.

I know some of these Open Season rates don't make sense and you can check the rates you get if you want but I would say they are definitely up.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 6, 2015)

Here are some examples I found this morning. 

If these rates are now going to change based on hilton.com rates, we'll definitely see higher open season rates during peak summer and holidays.
Happy New Year! :annoyed:


Kohala Suites by Hilton Grand Vacation Club Waikoloa, Hawaii

Unit Type:	 	2 Bedroom
Check-In date:	 	18-Dec-2015  (Friday after 4:00PM)
Check-Out date:	 	20-Dec-2015  (Sunday before 10:00AM)
Cost:	 	$385.60 total amount (including tax)

Unit Type:	 	2 Bedroom
Check-In date:	 	1-Jan-2016  (Friday after 4:00PM)
Check-Out date:	 	3-Jan-2016  (Sunday before 10:00AM)
Cost:	 	$413.95 total amount (including tax)


Kings' Land Waikoloa, Hawaii

BLD1-11 1BRPRM/1KNG/4PPL/768SQFT

Unit Type:	 	1 Bedroom Premier
Check-In date:	 	18-Dec-2015  (Friday after 4:00PM)
Check-Out date:	 	20-Dec-2015  (Sunday before 10:00AM)
Cost:	 	$442.30 total amount (including tax)

Unit Type:	 	1 Bedroom Premier
Check-In date:	 	1-Jan-2016  (Friday after 4:00PM)
Check-Out date:	 	3-Jan-2016  (Sunday before 10:00AM)
Cost:	 	$476.32 total amount (including tax)


BLD1-11 2BR+/KNG/DD/6PPL/1080SQFT

Unit Type:	 	2 Bedroom Plus
Check-In date:	 	11-Dec-2015  (Friday after 4:00PM)
Check-Out date:	 	15-Dec-2015  (Tuesday before 10:00AM)
Cost:	 	$827.90 total amount (including tax)

Unit Type:	 	2 Bedroom Plus
Check-In date:	 	1-Jan-2016  (Friday after 4:00PM)
Check-Out date:	 	5-Jan-2016  (Tuesday before 10:00AM)
Cost:	 	$929.96 total amount (including tax)


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## Cyberc (Dec 6, 2015)

alwysonvac said:


> Here are some examples I found this morning.
> 
> If these rates are now going to change based on hilton.com rates, we'll definitely see higher open season rates during peak summer and holidays.
> Happy New Year! :annoyed:
> ...



Don't get me wrong, I can see that the rates has gone up, but IMHO I don't think the change is that high. Its only 17$ Per Day for the 1br and 24.5$ for the 2br plus. 

In our world(hgvc wise) everything goes up, and as long as most is willing to pay they make the prices go up. 

Unless we do what we did earlier this year the prices WILL go up. 

So we either accept it or try fight it. 

Regards


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## Jason245 (Dec 6, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> Don't get me wrong, I can see that the rates has gone up, but IMHO I don't think the change is that high. Its only 17$ Per Day for the 1br and 24.5$ for the 2br plus.
> 
> In our world(hgvc wise) everything goes up, and as long as most is willing to pay they make the prices go up.
> 
> ...


Look at the percentage increase. .. it is Nuts. ..

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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 6, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Look at the percentage increase. .. it is Nuts. ..
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk



I see a class action suit looming. Especially in light that inflation is low and the Social Security cost of living adjustment for 2016 is 0.

They advertised and people purchased with the open season rate structure much lower.


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## Jason245 (Dec 6, 2015)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I see a class action suit looming. Especially in light that inflation is low and the Social Security cost of living adjustment for 2016 is 0.
> 
> They advertised and people purchased with the open season rate structure much lower.


They don't promise static rates anywhere.  It like most of the other fees are a cash grab. 

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## Talent312 (Dec 6, 2015)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I see a class action suit looming...



Uh.. no. They never promised that fees and rates would remain frozen. Actually, the existence of the club itself is optional as the rules provide that it may be discontinued at any time. Of course, they need it to sell units, but if Hilton were to weary of whining from the unwashed masses, who knows?
.
.


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## alwysonvac (Dec 6, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> Don't get me wrong, I can see that the rates has gone up, but IMHO I don't think the change is that high. Its only 17$ Per Day for the 1br and 24.5$ for the 2br plus.



We really can't detemine the true impact until they published the 2016 club fee chart.
As I wrote previously, if these rates are now going to change based on hilton.com rates, we'll definitely see higher open season rates during peak summer and holidays.

Here's what they wrote last December on their facebook page. 


> _Open Season Rental rates remain flexible based on location, season, day of the week and demand. Beginning in 2015, some nightly rates remain similar to those of the previous year, and *some increased rates are based on the location, season or day of the week* that are historically in higher demand by our Club Members.
> 
> *The intention of this update was to offer these accommodations during the 30 day booking window at a percentage-off of what can be found on Hilton.com*, ....._



*I'm simply disgusted with the whole thing.* :annoyed:
They have increased Open Season rates substantially over the last several  years (see chart below).

OPEN SEASON FEE INCREASES OVER THE YEARS


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 6, 2015)

Talent312 said:


> Uh.. no. They never promised that fees and rates would remain frozen. Actually, the existence of the club itself is optional as the rules provide that it may be discontinued at any time. Of course, they need it to sell units, but if Hilton were to weary of whining from the unwashed masses, who knows?
> .
> .



A selling premise of the HGV "Club" that we purchased is that there would be significant discounts on units that we owners deposit back into the system.  This feature has been openly advertised with rates published.  

Although HGVC does not have to freeze rates, when the discount becomes something within reach of what could be purchased by a non-owner via a discount channel then the benefit of paying thousands of dollars for a timeshare vs. anyone who hasn't paid for the privilege of being in the "club" evaporates.  

Hilton would be a desirable deep pocket target for savvy class action lawyers - and such lawyers have sued for much less. Sad part is that the only people who win in in such cases are the class action lawyers who reap big fees.


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## Cyberc (Dec 7, 2015)

CalGalTraveler said:


> A selling premise of the HGV "Club" that we purchased is that there would be significant discounts on units that we owners deposit back into the system.  This feature has been openly advertised with rates published.
> 
> Although HGVC does not have to freeze rates, when the discount becomes something within reach of what could be purchased by a non-owner via a discount channel then the benefit of paying thousands of dollars for a timeshare vs. anyone who hasn't paid for the privilege of being in the "club" evaporates.
> 
> Hilton would be a desirable deep pocket target for savvy class action lawyers - and such lawyers have sued for much less. Sad part is that the only people who win in in such cases are the class action lawyers who reap big fees.



Even though the lawyers are the only winners money-wise as long as WE the HGVC owners win the case then the rates must be lowered. To me thats a win-win.

Regards


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## Jason245 (Dec 7, 2015)

Cyberc said:


> Even though the lawyers are the only winners money-wise as long as WE the HGVC owners win the case then the rates must be lowered. To me thats a win-win.
> 
> Regards


Until they respond by raising club dues 100 percent. 

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## Tamaradarann (Dec 8, 2015)

*Large Discount from what Non-Owner Pays*



CalGalTraveler said:


> A selling premise of the HGV "Club" that we purchased is that there would be significant discounts on units that we owners deposit back into the system.  This feature has been openly advertised with rates published.
> 
> Although HGVC does not have to freeze rates, when the discount becomes something within reach of what could be purchased by a non-owner via a discount channel then the benefit of paying thousands of dollars for a timeshare vs. anyone who hasn't paid for the privilege of being in the "club" evaporates.
> 
> Hilton would be a desirable deep pocket target for savvy class action lawyers - and such lawyers have sued for much less. Sad part is that the only people who win in in such cases are the class action lawyers who reap big fees.



I agree with this statement.  Furthermore I have been in contact with Barbara Rinks, Director of Club and Owner Services about this issue.  Below is my last e-mail to her yesterday that conveys my thought on this subject.


_Thank you Barbara for your e-mail clarifying that the inventory that is offered during Open Season is in fact inventory that was not reserved by owner/members during the Club Reservation Period which is what my analysis revealed.  I concur that the club rules, which HGVC wrote, do state that HGVC has the right to use that inventory basically for whatever it wants.  

However, the Open Season inventory is inventory that owner/members own and did not give up to the HGVC for Hilton Honors Points or other perks.   Therefore, owner/members should be able to reserve that time at a large discount from that which the general public pays.
_


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## jestme (Dec 8, 2015)

My humble perspective:
If a company or group had 150,000 employees / members (the number of HGVC members there are), Hilton would give them massive discounts to get exclusive hotel status with that company or group. They would be chasing them for that opportunity. Maybe if HGVC members would check out Marriott or Hyatt or other large hotel chains as a group, we would do better than Hilton is treating their members.


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## Jason245 (Dec 8, 2015)

jestme said:


> My humble perspective:
> If a company or group had 150,000 employees / members (the number of HGVC members there are), Hilton would give them massive discounts to get exclusive hotel status with that company or group. They would be chasing them for that opportunity. Maybe if HGVC members would check out Marriott or Hyatt or other large hotel chains as a group, we would do better than Hilton is treating their members.



First there are 250k members. 

Second, they give status to TS owners in the HHonors program. Owning at HGVC is also the only way left to pool HHonors accounts and create a joint one (this is a very valuable benefit for a married couple). 

A big chunk of most members vacation dollars is already spent on TS, and this group unlike business travelers doesn't travel as much in hotels. 

Big corps like GE get 30-60% off room rates at Hilton, and their employees spend tens of millions of dollars on hotel stays (after discount).  HGVC isn't even a blip on the radar. Heck, even AAA only gets what a 10% rate reduction.


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## jestme (Dec 8, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> First there are 250k members.
> 
> Second, they give status to TS owners in the HHonors program. Owning at HGVC is also the only way left to pool HHonors accounts and create a joint one (this is a very valuable benefit for a married couple).
> 
> ...



I stand corrected on the 250,000, however, status in the HHonors program when you don't get HHonors points for anything, including room, restaurants, bars, etc. for an HGVC stay pretty well eliminates that benefit. 
If you want to pool points, simply have the cardholder book the room, who stays there is never checked. Besides, with rooms now costing 250,000 points per night for the Waikikian that isn't really a great benefit to most. I usually use up my full years HHonors points earnings booking a pre-flight Hampton Inn prior to my HGVC vacation. Besides, if you use a lot of hotel rooms, by pooling your points, you would get status pretty easily anyhow. 
Big corporations don't only book hotel rooms. They often book suites for their executives, so their corporate discounts apply to suites as well as hotel rooms. Even 4 nights at a hotel for the 250,000 HGVC members would be over a million "room nights." Even at $100 / night (which is cheap), that's $100M. Certainly not a "blip on the radar".


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## Jason245 (Dec 8, 2015)

jestme said:


> I stand corrected on the 250,000, however, status in the HHonors program when you don't get HHonors points for anything, including room, restaurants, bars, etc. for an HGVC stay pretty well eliminates that benefit.
> If you want to pool points, simply have the cardholder book the room, who stays there is never checked. Besides, with rooms now costing 250,000 points per night for the Waikikian that isn't really a great benefit to most. I usually use up my full years HHonors points earnings booking a pre-flight Hampton Inn prior to my HGVC vacation. Besides, if you use a lot of hotel rooms, by pooling your points, you would get status pretty easily anyhow.
> Big corporations don't only book hotel rooms. They often book suites for their executives, so their corporate discounts apply to suites as well as hotel rooms. Even 4 nights at a hotel for the 250,000 HGVC members would be over a million "room nights." Even at $100 / night (which is cheap), that's $100M. Certainly not a "blip on the radar".



AAA has 55.6 MILLION members. I don't realistically think HGVC members should expect a rate better than they offer. 

http://newsroom.aaa.com/about-aaa/aaa-fact-sheet/



and Hilton Worldwide made $10.5 Billion without offering a single discount to HGVC members in 2014. Even if your $100M number is correct (which I highly doubt), this is a blip (less than 1% of revenue... almost a rounding error). On top of that, most of the time you can get a room for ~$100 a night at the Hampton inns (not really that profitable), and possibly even the Embassy suites.  Discounting those rooms makes little sense for Hilton as people would probably stay there anyways. 

What would made sens for Hilton, is if they got HGVC members to each take 4 nights at $300 a night (regularly 5-700/night). That would be $300M of revenue in profitable rooms. 

If you want to pay that, then be my guest, but expecting discounts at their already discounted chains is not likely (especially in excess of what you can already get through other "clubs" or priceline etc..)


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## jestme (Dec 8, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> AAA has 55.6 MILLION members. I don't realistically think HGVC members should expect a rate better than they offer.
> 
> http://newsroom.aaa.com/about-aaa/aaa-fact-sheet/
> 
> ...



After another increase like this years, I won't be spending that with them, and I have told them so. I will go elsewhere for $300 / night, and get maid service every day, get to book a year in advance, pick my room, get program points, get credit for points, stays, etc. I will also eat, drink and spend at the other hotel, which Hilton used to count on as "ancillary revenue" from my Open Season stays. As many have pointed out, the general public already gets a better price in Vegas than we do, now, that is moving to HGVC's other locations as well. It won't be hard to switch. 
Keep in mind, your $10.5B number includes timeshare sales. Without Open Season value, it is a MUCH harder sell to get someone to pony up Hilton's kind of money to buy simply for a weeks vacation. I know I wouldn't have bought without it.


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## presley (Dec 8, 2015)

jestme said:


> I will go elsewhere for $300 / night, and get maid service every day, get to book a year in advance, pick my room, get program points, get credit for points, stays, etc.



It does sound like a much better deal to stay somewhere else.


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 8, 2015)

Tamaradarann said:


> I agree with this statement.  Furthermore I have been in contact with Barbara Rinks, Director of Club and Owner Services about this issue.  Below is my last e-mail to her yesterday that conveys my thought on this subject.
> 
> 
> _Thank you Barbara for your e-mail clarifying that the inventory that is offered during Open Season is in fact inventory that was not reserved by owner/members during the Club Reservation Period which is what my analysis revealed.  I concur that the club rules, which HGVC wrote, do state that HGVC has the right to use that inventory basically for whatever it wants.
> ...



If they continue to advertise open season rates as a benefit when one can purchase same or even lower via other discount channels, they are cutting off their noses to spite their face because this is not a benefit.  

Why on earth would anyone pay thousands of dollars upfront for the headache and long term commitment of a timeshare when you can get the same room off the street without a "club" membership and get the same rate?

What i find unconscionable is that these are units that we own and they are selling them back to us at market rates that anyone can get via a discount channel.  

This is not what was sold to us as part of this "club."  

Bait and switch.


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## jestme (Dec 8, 2015)

presley said:


> It does sound like a much better deal to stay somewhere else.


Especially when you consider the additional flexibility of cancelling, booking a 1 day reservation, and not knowing what your costs will be until they show up on your reservation or even if there is going to be availability, which you only find out 29 days before you are going somewhere. It used to be worth those hassles only because of the price, but price isn't enough of a factor any more and I certainly don't feel any loyalty towards Hilton anymore.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 8, 2015)

*The Inventory is Owner/Members Inventory!*



Jason245 said:


> AAA has 55.6 MILLION members. I don't realistically think HGVC members should expect a rate better than they offer.
> 
> http://newsroom.aaa.com/about-aaa/aaa-fact-sheet/
> 
> ...




Jason, I would agree with you about the AAA discount versus the HGVC discount, except for the following major issue and the position that I take and continue to emphasize on this site and to HGVC 

_"the Open Season inventory is inventory that owner/members own and did not give up to the HGVC for Hilton Honors Points or other perks. Therefore, owner/members should be able to reserve that time at a large discount from that which the general public pays."_


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## Jason245 (Dec 8, 2015)

Tamaradarann said:


> Jason, I would agree with you about the AAA discount versus the HGVC discount, except for the following major issue and the position that I take and continue to emphasize on this site and to HGVC
> 
> _"the Open Season inventory is inventory that owner/members own and did not give up to the HGVC for Hilton Honors Points or other perks. Therefore, owner/members should be able to reserve that time at a large discount from that which the general public pays."_



I was writing in response to access to hotel rooms, not open season rooms. 

I agree to the whole open season room issue if they do not do away with that system and instead switch to discount on ALL Hilton hotel reservations instead.


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## jestme (Dec 9, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I was writing in response to access to hotel rooms, not open season rooms.
> 
> I agree to the whole open season room issue if they do not do away with that system and instead switch to discount on ALL Hilton hotel reservations instead.



Jason245, AAA is an automobile association, and one of it's many side perks is hotel discounts. It's main function is to provide you with roadside assistance insurance. When it sells a membership, hotel stays are just one of a large number of small discounts that come along with it as part of the package. However, if it removes the hotel perk or makes it negligible, it lowers the value of the whole product to it's members. 
HGVC is doing the identical thing by lowering Open Season's value to its members. The criteria they now use for pricing is totally different from what was sold to us, and will have a direct negative affect on owners HGVC value. They now have a multi-tier product, where they originally sold a balanced product. Points in Orlando are the same as points in Hawaii, but dollars are no longer the same.
I think the original poster may be correct. A class action law suit may have merit. HGVC management's decision to change the criteria they use for Open Season pricing, has reduced the value of what they sold. The same as would apply if they doubled or tripled point values required for exchanging into Hawaii from an Orlando or Las Vegas home resort.


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## Jason245 (Dec 9, 2015)

jestme said:


> Jason245, AAA is an automobile association, and one of it's many side perks is hotel discounts. It's main function is to provide you with roadside assistance insurance. When it sells a membership, hotel stays are just one of a large number of small discounts that come along with it as part of the package. However, if it removes the hotel perk or makes it negligible, it lowers the value of the whole product to it's members.
> HGVC is doing the identical thing by lowering Open Season's value to its members. The criteria they now use for pricing is totally different from what was sold to us, and will have a direct negative affect on owners HGVC value. They now have a multi-tier product, where they originally sold a balanced product. Points in Orlando are the same as points in Hawaii, but dollars are no longer the same.
> I think the original poster may be correct. A class action law suit may have merit. HGVC management's decision to change the criteria they use for Open Season pricing, has reduced the value of what they sold. The same as would apply if they doubled or tripled point values required for exchanging into Hawaii from an Orlando or Las Vegas home resort.


Good luck with that.. the club docs are very specific.  In the end.. your only right is the interval you bought and were deeded. 

You better bet is to just publisize the increases and create a large enough group of owners to complain. . Make sure to tell everyone you meet at resorts about it and encourage them to complain.  If you go on updates refuse to buy upgrades due to this (even though it isn't the real reason ).

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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 9, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Good luck with that.. the club docs are very specific.  In the end.. your only right is the interval you bought and were deeded.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk



Although there is some wording in contracts, and I am not a lawyer but based on business dealings I see several weaknesses:


1) FTC violations.  These rates were published and widely advertised both on-line and in presentations from sales representatives.  People bought into the program with the expectation that they would get deep discounts for paying for this club up-front.  Such a practice not only is an advertising violation it could be construed as bait and switch.

2) Property Owner rights. It seems that an owner should be able to receive rents for property that they own and should have power over where that property is rented.  Perhaps, this may be why we can rent out or exchange our home week.  Actions could also be taken about management and associated fees via homeowner board meetings if enough owners participated and voted.

3) Fine print doesn't always mean that they can enforce it. This is why lawyers require that people signing a pre-nup agreement must mark it up to ensure it was read. I also seem to recall from a business law class many years ago that there is some common law basis for the fact that you cannot tell somebody one thing and then hand them something else on a contract.


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## Jason245 (Dec 9, 2015)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Although there is some wording in contracts, and I am not a lawyer but based on business dealings I see several weaknesses:
> 
> 
> 1) FTC violations.  These rates were published and widely advertised both on-line and in presentations from sales representatives.  People bought into the program with the expectation that they would get deep discounts for paying for this club up-front.  Such a practice not only is an advertising violation it could be construed as bait and switch.
> ...


I am not going to point out the flaws of your legal arguments other than to say that neither of them hold any water.  

There is no ftc violation and no valid cause of action.  Your case would more than likely be dismissed and you would be sued for attorney fees. 

Just cause you don't like it doesn't make it something you can fight and win. Just ask the wastegate owners.



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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 9, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I am not going to point out the flaws of your legal arguments other than to say that neither of them hold any water.
> 
> There is no ftc violation and no valid cause of action.  Your case would more than likely be dismissed and you would be sued for attorney fees.
> 
> ...



Jason245 are you a lawyer? Creative lawyers have sued for a lot less. Consider the most recent Groupon class action, shareholder lawsuits or the McDonald's coffee spill.

BTW...All it takes for FTC is to report a violation.  The government's lawyers take care of the rest.  The government loves to make an example of a high profile target to clean up an entire industry.  No one ever heard of Westgate except for Westgate owners.


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## Jason245 (Dec 9, 2015)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Jason245 are you a lawyer? Creative lawyers have sued for a lot less. Consider the most recent Groupon class action, shareholder lawsuits or the McDonald's coffee spill.
> 
> BTW...All it takes for FTC is to report a violation.  The government's lawyers take care of the rest.  The government loves to make an example of a high profile target to clean up an entire industry.  No one ever heard of Westgate except for Westgate owners.


You can file a complaint,  they decide what to do. .and likely nothing.. 

Similarly the ag office for your state..

I recommend you consult an attorney on this and you will see what they say.

Your problem is that you need to show actual damages... you have no damages by them raising rates to a suplemntary product which is optional for them to even provide.  

What the sales weasel told you is meaningless the contract governs all.. 

Legal action is not feasible. But for 10k you can take action and tell us how it goes. 

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## 1Kflyerguy (Dec 9, 2015)

I am disappointed they are increasing the rates, but its not unexpected.  Hotel rates have been really going up in general, so this is not unexpected to me.

I have to be honest, and admit that i have never used open season, so i am not  personally impacted, but this has been a nice feature of the program that i always expected to use, but it never worked out for me...


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## CalGalTraveler (Dec 9, 2015)

Aside from the legal concerns their marketing and program teams are acting stupidly by biting the hand that feeds them - alienating advocates that could sell more of their offering.

Does HGVC even have a voice of the customer or customer advisory counsel to help them test and get feedback with these kinds of issues?  Have they even run focus groups on this?  This is marketing 101.

Here is a smarter way to go about this, make Hilton more money and keep owners happy:

Grandfather open season rates for HGVC system based on year first purchased to keep owners happy and avoid a lawsuit. Regular open season rates as they are now for new buyers.  (Grandfathering is how this should have been implemented in the first place.)

and/or

Offer to owners the opportunity to get a standard percentage (e.g. 20%) off of the lowest published rate (e.g. AAA) in the entire Hilton hotel system when booked via Hilton.com.

This way Hilton gets more incremental cash for rooms throughout the system (this would be far more lucrative for Hilton than open season rates). Owners win because they can get Hilton rooms at a lower rate than others.  This would be attractive to owners because HGVC is not in all locations.  This honors the fact that HGVC owners are Hilton's best customers and advocates and would be more loyal to the system.  

This is not perfect but you get the idea.    Much better to offer additional benefits and adjust rather than taking stuff away from your best customers.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 9, 2015)

*They have only raised Hawaii - At this point!*



CalGalTraveler said:


> Aside from the legal concerns their marketing and program teams are acting stupidly by biting the hand that feeds them - alienating advocates that could sell more of their offering.
> 
> Does HGVC even have a voice of the customer or customer advisory counsel to help them test and get feedback with these kinds of issues?  Have they even run focus groups on this?  This is marketing 101.
> 
> ...



I am as mad as everyone else who is commenting that HGVC shouldn't have raised the Open Season Rates.  I have stressed to HGVC that these are owner/member owned rooms that Owner/Members didn't book during the club reservation period and owner/members should be able to reserve them at severe discounts to the general public.  However, they have only raised the Open Season Rates for Hawaii at this point.  I love Hawaii and believe that Honolulu is the best place is the world.  Hawaii is the most sought after location in the HGVC system.  They know they can book these rooms at market rate if Owner/Members don't book them.  They probably won't raise the Open Season Rates in Orlando or Vegas since they are lucky to fill the rooms sometimes.  They want to make more money and have owner/members use their dollars in locations where there is an abundance of availability.  

I don't know how to proceed but I don't like what they are doing since Hawaii is the place that I have used Open Season and would like it to still be available at a severe discount so I receive the benefit I bought when I became an Owner/Member


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