# why LV strip is the lowest MF's ?



## aamista (Oct 24, 2014)

Hello,

i just wonder why LV strip is the lowest MF's ?

THanks


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 24, 2014)

Less state taxes 

Less weather related issues (hurricane, earthquakes etc.) therefore less insurance and less damage.

Newer of the 3 LV properties, less maintenance issue to date.

Rest of the items should be similarly priced, but reducing the items above would lower the taxes


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## alwysonvac (Oct 24, 2014)

Also, MF for this resort is still subsidized by the developer to entice buyers.


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## aamista (Oct 24, 2014)

So when they will stop subsidies it?and will it affect badly when they do?


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## linsj (Oct 24, 2014)

alwysonvac said:


> Also, MF for this resort is still subsidized by the developer to entice buyers.



I asked about this some time ago in another thread, and an owner said this isn't true. So I'm not sure about it.


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## Ron98GT (Oct 24, 2014)

alwysonvac said:


> Also, MF for this resort is still subsidized by the developer to entice buyers.


I seriously doubt that.  Lower constructions costs. Lower wages. Lower utility costs. No major disasters. Lower taxes. Lower costs to upkeep.  No additional TS taxes added. Very business friendly state, especially regarding casino's & hotels. Did I mention low taxes, a number one reason people move here.


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## Cyberc (Oct 24, 2014)

From what I have heard the MF is not subsidized anymore also Hilton is not actively selling at this property.


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## alwysonvac (Oct 24, 2014)

aamista said:


> So when they will stop subsidies it? and will it affect badly when they do?



Sorry, I don't know the answers to your questions. Perhaps someone who bought this property directly from the developer can tell you.

Here's what I can tell you

(1) It's not uncommon to have a developer subsidy. This is not unique to HGVC
From Judy's FAQ page - http://www.judikoz.com/Help.aspx#2
_Q:What are maintenance fees?
A: Maintenance fees are the cost to operate the resort. This fee is divided up amongst all of the owners. A portion of the maintenance fee is to build up reserves to pay the non-recurring costs like furniture and appliances. The reserve is also set up to pay for other capital costs incurred because of physical deterioration. When a developer is still selling in a resort, the fees may be subsidized and are subject to go up after the homeowner association takes over the association. The States do have some control over how much is kept in reserve for future spending.
_
(2) I can tell you that HGVC has typically provided a subsidy in the past.
This is shown in a March 2005 Analyst Presentation (see slide 31 titled "_Lifecycle of a Timeshare Project_" - http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/88/88577/presentations/Mar05Analystpres.pdf

(3) The HGVC's offering statement will indicate whether HGVC is subsidizing the MF.  
Sellingtimeshares.net (Seth's site) indicated in their 2012 MF chart which resorts had MF subsidized at the time (the Las Vegas Strip was one of them) - www.sellingtimeshares.net/wp-content/uploads/HGVC-2012-MF-Chart.xlsx (this is a download).
NOTE: The same chart seems to be available here as well - http://alltimeshare.com/hilton_hgvc_2012_maintenance_fees.pdf


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## dougp26364 (Oct 25, 2014)

alwysonvac said:


> Also, MF for this resort is still subsidized by the developer to entice buyers.



I'll have to look at my MF bill but I think the subsidy is finished.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 25, 2014)

Cyberc said:


> From what I have heard the MF is not subsidized anymore also Hilton is not actively selling at this property.



We went on an owners update last year (2013) and they were no longer selling LV Strip. They had other properties they were selling and attempted to sell us one of the new affiliates in CA.


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## alwysonvac (Oct 25, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> I'll have to look at my MF bill but I think the subsidy is finished.



Thanks Doug 

Just for future reference....Can you also share with us how much of a hit your MF took after the subsidy stopped? Was it a slight increase over time or all at once?


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## Xpat (Oct 25, 2014)

If the 2012 MF were $737 and are now $772 it would mean they've only increased 2.4% a year, which is well below the increases we've seen at other properties. 
I thought subsidies were designed to cover the MFs of unsold units until all units are sold, so there should be no impact when subsidies stop?
I'm currently closing on a LV strip deed, so I hope the MFs here keep their relative value. $772 at LVS is low compared to $877 (Flamingo), $893 (Karen Ave), $1145 (Marriott Grand Chateau), $800 (Wyndham Grand Desert)...


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## alwysonvac (Oct 25, 2014)

Several sites refer to the developer subsidy as a marketing tool.
For example 
- http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/what_are_timeshare_maintenance_fees.html
- http://www.redweek.com/resources/glossary#m


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## aamista (Oct 26, 2014)

jpl88 said:


> If the 2012 MF were $737 and are now $772 it would mean they've only increased 2.4% a year, which is well below the increases we've seen at other properties.
> I thought subsidies were designed to cover the MFs of unsold units until all units are sold, so there should be no impact when subsidies stop?
> I'm currently closing on a LV strip deed, so I hope the MFs here keep their relative value. $772 at LVS is low compared to $877 (Flamingo), $893 (Karen Ave), $1145 (Marriott Grand Chateau), $800 (Wyndham Grand Desert)...



I totally agree wih you that developer pay instead of the future owners till everything is sold.which should not affect anybody


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## BocaBoy (Oct 27, 2014)

aamista said:


> i just wonder why LV strip is the lowest MF's ?



I think a major reason is that there is relatively little landscaping cost.  Think of that cost for a resort in Hawaii versus on the Las Vegas Strip.  I own in Hawaii and Las Vegas with Marriott and that is a large part of the difference in the costs.


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## linsj (Oct 27, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I think a major reason is that there is relatively little landscaping cost.  Think of that cost for a resort in Hawaii versus on the Las Vegas Strip.  I own in Hawaii and Las Vegas with Marriott and that is a large part of the difference in the costs.



First time I've heard this, but it makes sense as a contributing factor.


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## alwysonvac (Oct 27, 2014)

I just have a hard time believing the HGVC Strip property will continue to have the lowest MF out of all of the HGVC Vegas properties in the long run.  I guess time will tell.


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## Xpat (Oct 28, 2014)

alwysonvac said:


> I just have a hard time believing the HGVC Strip property will continue to have the lowest MF out of all of the HGVC Vegas properties in the long run.  I guess time will tell.



are there are any particular reasons why you think the Strip property will become more expensive than the other properties? It seems the Strip has more rooms (1228 vs 303 at Flamingo and 419 at Karen Ave) so it might benefit from some economies of scale.


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## alwysonvac (Oct 28, 2014)

jpl88 said:


> are there are any particular reasons why you think the Strip property will become more expensive than the other properties? It seems the Strip has more rooms (1228 vs 303 at Flamingo and 419 at Karen Ave) so it might benefit from some economies of scale.



It's just my opinion.
I guess it just seems a little too convenient that the newer fancier Strip property has a lower MF than the older Karen Ave and Flamingo properties.

We've had a newer fancier property at the same destination starting off with a lower MF than the older property then eventually end up higher (Orlando's Intl Drive vs SeaWorld). 
NOTE: I don't believe that happen with Karen Ave and Flamingo.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 28, 2014)

I am not an expert on Timeshare finances, but i know with regular residential developments, the developer has to pay the dues and fees for any of the unsold units.  

It could be that HGVC is trying to keep the fees lower in case they ever do build the other two towers at the strip location.  No idea if they are still even thinking of building those.


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