# Its official...im blacklisted



## ronparise (Oct 25, 2013)

Im at Wyndham's Indio resort this week. (or Worldmarks Indio resort, if that makes you feel better) But Im staying here with my Wyndham points

This morning I was to have my "owner update" with one of the Wyndham reps (there are also Worldmark reps here)  I waited for a while and was finally greeted by the sales manager. He offered to answer my questions, but I got no breakfast and no gift

So my first question was...have I been black-listed. His answer was "yes... we call you a mega-renter".  

I thanked him for his honesty and then asked about the pathways program. I told him I was looking for an exit strategy. He was completely honest with me...Pathways will not work with anything bought on the resale market and offers no guarantee for the retail buyer.


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## chriskre (Oct 25, 2013)

Congratulations. 
Quite an achievement.


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 25, 2013)

Now you can vacation without being bothered.  OR, you can just tell them they invited you, you changed your plans to go, and so you expect a gift.  

At Bali Hai, they will give us a gift, if we show up.  We cannot tour, but we get the gift.  I don't want to go, but the discount card really does give discounts on activities.  

We are blacklisted, a long time now.  I am so proud!


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## benyu2010 (Oct 25, 2013)

They should give you a gift card, period...and tell you this is last GC you will receive...


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 25, 2013)

*What is a mega-renter*



ronparise said:


> Im at Wyndham's Indio resort this week. (or Worldmarks Indio resort, if that makes you feel better) But Im staying here with my Wyndham points
> 
> This morning I was to have my "owner update" with one of the Wyndham reps (there are also Worldmark reps here)  I waited for a while and was finally greeted by the sales manager. He offered to answer my questions, but I got no breakfast and no gift
> 
> ...



Why did they call you a mega-renter?  What were they referring to?


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## Bourne (Oct 25, 2013)

Tamaradarann said:


> Why did they call you a mega-renter?  What were they referring to?



He always rents from other people. 

Will never buy points from Wyndham directly.


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## Pietin (Oct 26, 2013)

Congrats :whoopie::whoopie:


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## GregT (Oct 26, 2013)

ronparise said:


> So my first question was...have I been black-listed. His answer was "yes... we call you a mega-renter".



Ron, congrats -- great work!  

Best,

Greg


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## csxjohn (Oct 26, 2013)

That's too bad Ron, I know you like going to the presentations to get the latest info.

It looks like now they will at least give you honest answers to your questions but it's too bad you can't get the freebies.

It's a little scary knowing I've been doing business with a "mega renter."  It sounds kind of sinister.

I wonder if I'll be banned from an update next summer because I rented from you?


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## lcml11 (Oct 26, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> That's too bad Ron, I know you like going to the presentations to get the latest info.
> 
> It looks like now they will at least give you honest answers to your questions but it's too bad you can't get the freebies.
> 
> ...



Probably not, they tend to like trying to sell to the guests of  what they perceive to be their competitors.


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## lcml11 (Oct 26, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Im at Wyndham's Indio resort this week. (or Worldmarks Indio resort, if that makes you feel better) But Im staying here with my Wyndham points
> 
> This morning I was to have my "owner update" with one of the Wyndham reps (there are also Worldmark reps here)  I waited for a while and was finally greeted by the sales manager. He offered to answer my questions, but I got no breakfast and no gift
> 
> ...



It is my understanding that some total costs of the Owner Update program are paid directly by the trust and/or the resorts.  It is to bad that some owners apparently do not get the benifits of being an owner while others do.  Maybe there is a sharp attorney out there somewhere that would take a look at this issue.  Preferably a mega rentor one.

By the way, now we know Wyndham does give out the mega rentor title to some owners.  It would be nice if the criteria would be made public.  Any current or former sales reps or other staff  out there that would like to share?

I got the title for owning 1 million plus a tab points.  I do not think it is just based on number of points.


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## bnoble (Oct 26, 2013)

> It is my understanding that some total costs of the Owner Update program are paid directly by the trust and/or the resorts.


No chance.  Sales, all the way.


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## lcml11 (Oct 26, 2013)

bnoble said:


> No chance.  Sales, all the way.



Depends on who you believe.  Multiple resorts, multiple people have indicated that Wyndham Management personnel work with the sales staff to help sales get people into the tours  and at one resort the VIP newspapers are diverted to the sales staff as a perk.

Just as a side point, who among us has not been referred to the parking pass people by the check-in desk to get the sign-up for a tour pitch in order to get their parking pass.

I am not sure (bad joke), but I believe firms using paid staff to get customers to the sales staff is not a particularly new concept and yes the staff is paid for this duty/function.

I do not doubt that the Wyndham Company line is as you have stated.


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## Smokatoke (Oct 26, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Im at Wyndham's Indio resort this week. (or Worldmarks Indio resort, if that makes you feel better) But Im staying here with my Wyndham points
> 
> This morning I was to have my "owner update" with one of the Wyndham reps (there are also Worldmark reps here)  I waited for a while and was finally greeted by the sales manager. He offered to answer my questions, but I got no breakfast and no gift
> 
> ...



Thats funny, I was told I am banned from Grandview presentations! I will be visiting Wyndham Indio for Thanksgiving week. We only live 2 hours outside of Palm Springs area so this will be a local-ish vacation for us. Hoping the weather holds to mid 70s for swimming. 

Quick thoughts on the resort?


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## kwindham (Oct 26, 2013)

Bourne said:


> He always rents *from* other people.
> 
> Will never buy points from Wyndham directly.



He rents *to* other people, not from.


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## pacodemountainside (Oct 26, 2013)

So, Ron what are you doing with  your extra  time these days to rattle cages?

I have been told several times after making sales people angry/look  stupid I was  being put on blackball list,  but has not happened so far.


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## Rent_Share (Oct 26, 2013)

I guessing they got tired of listening to him


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## slip (Oct 26, 2013)

I bet you could go to other Wyndham resorts and they would give you an
Update. We know how organized they are.


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## NHTraveler (Oct 26, 2013)

We are not blacklisted, but while in Hawaii they gave us $125 for one update and $100 for another.  When we arrived at our third place, they didn't offer an update to us.  lol.  I'm sure they will offer it to us again sometime on our next trip.


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## scootr5 (Oct 26, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> I guessing they got tired of listening to him



Just curious, but what have you got against Ron? I've seen a couple posts now that just seem rude..,


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## lcml11 (Oct 26, 2013)

NHTraveler said:


> We are not blacklisted, but while in Hawaii they gave us $125 for one update and $100 for another.  When we arrived at our third place, they didn't offer an update to us.  lol.  I'm sure they will offer it to us again sometime on our next trip.



There is a blacklist, this is true.  However, the Resorts and Sales Offices apparently have a wide latitude on who to invite and who not to invite.  

They apparently do keep track of how many presentations are attended within certain timeframes and if you attend to many without buying anything, then you may sit out a few visits.  

I do not know if it is true or not, but I understand one per 6 month period is the rule of thumb, if not blacklisted.  If blacklisted, then it is up to the individual resort and the co-located sales office.

As for Rent Share, he apparently has a view of the world his way or no way if you interfere with whatever drummer he marches to.  Ron is usually right, projections are decent.  

Out of respect for some that do not seem to have a similar track record, I will say no more.


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## Bourne (Oct 26, 2013)

kwindham said:


> He rents *to* other people, not from.



That was the reason for the smile icon. A wink would have given it away.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 26, 2013)

I so HOPE that if Ron or anyone has to sit out without an invite to an Owner's Update, that the poor hangtag staff doesn't have the low penetration rate work against their commission and paycheck. 

And the actual rule for "not permitted to be compensated for attendance" is once every 2 weeks.


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## northovr (Oct 26, 2013)

i've been banned from westgate they made me sign a piece of paper saying I am no longer allowed to do a tour for gifts or something like that.
Wyndham not yet but  second to the last owners update I was supposed to be put on the  Claudia talk to me file and he is not interested.   But one month later they invited me again so I said sure.  But since we did it as a group it too longer and sucked.  100 dollar gift card worked fine so it wasn't a total waste of time


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## NHTraveler (Oct 26, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> I so HOPE that if Ron or anyone has to sit out without an invite to an Owner's Update, that the poor hangtag staff doesn't have the low penetration rate work against their commission and paycheck.
> 
> And the actual rule for "not permitted to be compensated for attendance" is once every 2 weeks.



Did one on the Big Island on October 7 and the second was on October 12 at Bali Hai.  Maybe they thought they had a chance at BH?  Either way, it was a no.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 26, 2013)

NHTraveler said:


> Did one on the Big Island on October 7 and the second was on October 12 at Bali Hai.  Maybe they thought they had a chance at BH?  Either way, it was a no.



Records are kept at the local sales offices ... which MIGHT not be separate resorts,

For example, of the 3 Ocean Drive resorts, the local sales office is ONLY at one of them, Guests staying at the other 2 resorts are supposed to drive or walk to the sales office on the 9th floor (their Wyndham van is in the garage for "repairs"). Go out to the Ft Lauderdale resort, those guests have their own sales office.


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## Bigrob (Oct 26, 2013)

What's ironic about it is they are blacklisting someone who is 1) actually interested in getting information and 2) a multiple retail points buyer.

Seems like a savvy company would be very interested in having someone like that attend sessions - especially if there was new information or initiatives being trialed - to see the reaction. If instead of blacklisting him they listened to him, they might get some useful information.

I guess to some extent the problem is the term "informed customer" is a bit of an oxymoron in the retail TS world, and Ron is nothing if not informed.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 26, 2013)

Bigrob said:


> ...
> 
> Seems like a savvy company would be very interested in having someone like that attend sessions - especially if there was new information or initiatives being trialed - to see the reaction. If instead of blacklisting him they listened to him, they might get some useful information.
> 
> ....



Okay, the sales world is NEVER about education or having an educated buyer --- esp in the timeshare world of sales. The sales staff is selling "a life style" of smoke and mirrors. If they sold things truthfully, who would buy a MUD WEEK? *They are selling a "perfect vacation for the family every year DREAM"*. Or the perfect winter vacation for a month with the perfect view. 

I am running an ad right now on Craigslist - about 3 weeks now. Actually, I have a dozen ads running - got 1 response on ONE resort but 15 on this ONE particular ad. I have no response on the other 10. 

So why do I mention CL and my killer (on response) ad? It has the BEST picture of the resort pool I have ever seen (better than the developer's pool picture) as the lead picture. Everyone of those CL inquiries is DREAMING themselves floating in that perfect pool, with that blue sky overhead and those classic palm trees swaying on the edge of the pool. NOT one question about the units or beds --- just do you have MY dates! And the price ain't free and NOT one reduction request either. 

A knowledgeable male asking good questions? Sales wants sheep - dreaming the perfect family dream. Sales can't promise PERFECTION of buyers' dreams - they are selling the maximum dollar value they can extract to get a bigger commission check. A paycheck cashed and spent by the following Friday. After the buyer's rescission period has lapsed.


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## Bigrob (Oct 27, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Okay, the sales world is NEVER about education or having an educated buyer --- esp in the timeshare world of sales. The sales staff is selling "a life style" of smoke and mirrors. If they sold things truthfully, who would buy a MUD WEEK? *They are selling a "perfect vacation for the family every year DREAM"*. Or the perfect winter vacation for a month with the perfect view.
> 
> I am running an ad right now on Craigslist - about 3 weeks now. Actually, I have a dozen ads running - got 1 response on ONE resort but 15 on this ONE particular ad. I have no response on the other 10.
> 
> ...



Exactly right... that's why I referred to the "informed customer" as being an oxymoron, since well-informed folks aren't retail TS customers (generally) except in special situations. And really no one in sales has an interest in running focus groups to figure out what would appeal to that demographic... much easier as you say to focus on the easy marks.

I love your example too about the power of the image. No wonder the most recent Wyndham member directory is so chock full of evocative imagery.


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## ronparise (Oct 27, 2013)

scootr5 said:


> Just curious, but what have you got against Ron? I've seen a couple posts now that just seem rude..,



He's actually been quite nice to me here. Someone asked the same question on the wmowners forum, where he hasnt been as restrained.   His answer:

_"...his Snarky Tone, with the condescending avatar looking down on everytone, from an owner of less than a year who wants to lecture the contributors here on how Wyndham should be ..."

I want to scream when the relatively newbies at TUG praise him as if he is the GOD of Timesharing..._


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## lcml11 (Oct 27, 2013)

ronparise said:


> He's actually been quite nice to me here. Someone asked the same question on the wmowners forum, where he hasnt been as restrained.   His answer:
> 
> _"...his Snarky Tone, with the condescending avatar looking down on everytone, from an owner of less than a year who wants to lecture the contributors here on how Wyndham should be ..."
> 
> I want to scream when the relatively newbies at TUG praise him as if he is the GOD of Timesharing..._



Who knows, maybe Wyndham will listen.  I think they do monitor this board.

If Rent Share wants to compete with Ron, he can always post facts that refute what Ron says or otherwise add something pertaining to the topic.


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## kwindham (Oct 27, 2013)

Bourne said:


> That was the reason for the smile icon. A wink would have given it away.



Sorry, I actually thought it was a typo.


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## ace2000 (Oct 27, 2013)

lcml11 said:


> If Rent Share wants to compete with Ron, he can always post facts that refute what Ron says or otherwise add something pertaining to the topic.



Last week, Rent_Share sent me a PM saying he now was ignoring my posts.  My reply - I ignored his PM.


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## ronparise (Oct 27, 2013)

ace2000 said:


> Last week, Rent_Share sent me a PM saying he now was ignoring my posts.  My reply - I ignored his PM.



You got the nice pm.   Mine came with an FU message. He said he set me on ignore too, but he still responds to my posts. Maybe its my magnetic personality that makes me hard to ignore


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## benyu2010 (Oct 27, 2013)

I found both Rent_Share's signature one-liner posts and Ron's lecture very entertaining...


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## Luanne (Oct 27, 2013)

We are currently staying at a Wyndham property on an RCI exchange.  When dh went to get our parking pass (which is code name for getting talked into a sales presentation) he very nicely signed us up for the presentation this coming Friday.  He neglected to tell them we aren't staying for the full week and will be leaving on Tuesday. :ignore:


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## pacodemountainside (Oct 27, 2013)

What's next? Wyndham operatives   IDing Tug members  and  automatically black listing.

It does appear  like Main Man said in   analyst meeting,   Wyndham is   striving to weed out  people who only want  freebies.

A couple weeks ago at Smoky Mountains wanted me to do a  30 minute   owner relations update for free. Finally agreed on $25 and I could leave after 30 minutes.

All presenter did was say new pathways program,  etc.  discuss with personal rep,   ad infinitum.

When 30 minutes was up,  sure  enough sales woman showed  up and invited into her lair. Really pissed when I declined, showed invite  and asked for  gift.  Said  no way she could provide  $100 gift card.

When  at local WalMart  body snatcher said  he  was paying $100, but could not sign up anyone   staying  at resort.

Shades of olde   quick owner survey by  owner relations  for  Wyndham   mug or baseball cap. Suck them in anyway you can.


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## Rent_Share (Oct 27, 2013)

benyu2010 said:


> I found both Rent_Share's signature one-liner posts and Ron's lecture very entertaining...


 
You would have to quote Ron's post for me to see it


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## jhoug (Oct 27, 2013)

*Ditto*

It's not just Wyndham, but Worldmark ( by Wyndham) that may be trying to effect a policy change and try some better method to keep track.  My SIL was told at a Worldmark presentation in St George that they would not be inviting her again.   She travels frequently with us or on our points, goes to the presentation for the freebie and always turns down their offers for the last 10+ years.  She kind of laughed when they told her that and said she has been doing ok staying at their resorts for the last 10 yrs without buying points from them.


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## comicbookman (Oct 27, 2013)

We got blacklisted about 2 years ago.  Seems we had absorbed too many freebies over the years.  Last time we went to Williamsburg with group of friends they signed us up, but called to cancel about 30 minutes before we where to show up, with our friends for breakfast.  (Our friends were notmrequired to sit through a presentation, just get frre breakfast while we sat through one.)   Apparently when they pullud our file they found the blacklisting.


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## kwindham (Oct 28, 2013)

Luanne said:


> We are currently staying at a Wyndham property on an RCI exchange.  When dh went to get our parking pass (which is code name for getting talked into a sales presentation) he very nicely signed us up for the presentation this coming Friday.  He neglected to tell them we aren't staying for the full week and will be leaving on Tuesday. :ignore:



:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:


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## pedro47 (Oct 28, 2013)

kwindham said:


> :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:



You are on vacation...Why does it takes 15 - 20 minutes to gives you a parking pass. Please submit my name to be blacklist.


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## alexadeparis (Oct 28, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> What's next? Wyndham operatives   IDing Tug members  and  automatically black listing.



Oooh, can I be on the list, too?


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## NHTraveler (Oct 28, 2013)

alexadeparis said:


> Oooh, can I be on the list, too?



You and everyone else.  We hadn't gone to one in a while, so when we went to Hawaii earlier this month, we decided we would go to as many as they let us go to for the freebies.  Collected $225 for two of them, but they wouldn't give us an incentive for the third place.  I was beginning to enjoy the freebies...lol.


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## Vacationfuntips (Oct 29, 2013)

*If you want to attend... Perhaps Try again after 6 months?*

You might think you are blacklisted especially if you have attended more than 1 Wyndham or Worldmark update presentation within a 6 month period.  It happened to me where I was told I could not attend after previously attending one at Wyndham then going to a Worldmark property.  1 year later...no problems being invited again!  So you may want to try again...???


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## Timeshare Von (Oct 29, 2013)

We were at Wyndham Shawnee-Depuy last week via an RCI exchange that involved a non-Wyndham resort.

On Tuesday we got "the call" for a "survey" in our unit to see how our check-in went.  We were offered a $25 g/c for our time to respond to their survey request.

I told them that for $25 it wasn't worth our time or effort.  When I asked about something providing more money, they said that we were not set up for that, but if we wanted to have a 90-120 minutes sales presentation, they could check with the sales department to see if we might be eligible for that instead.

When I was told that we would have to come down at 10:30am that morning to have the sales pitch, I told her no thanks as I wasn't going to kill our day since we already had things planned.  I was willing to do it on Thursday when we had no activities planned, but they were not open for sales that day.


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## benyu2010 (Oct 29, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> You would have to quote Ron's post for me to see it





ronparise said:


> He's actually been quite nice to me...[/I]


 Here is preview and removal of ignore is required to see the full context


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## joestein (Oct 31, 2013)

lcml11 said:


> It is my understanding that some total costs of the Owner Update program are paid directly by the trust and/or the resorts.  It is to bad that some owners apparently do not get the benifits of being an owner while others do.  Maybe there is a sharp attorney out there somewhere that would take a look at this issue.  Preferably a mega rentor one.
> 
> By the way, now we know Wyndham does give out the mega rentor title to some owners.  It would be nice if the criteria would be made public.  Any current or former sales reps or other staff  out there that would like to share?
> 
> I got the title for owning 1 million plus a tab points.  I do not think it is just based on number of points.





That seems a bit disturbing.  Why should the trust incur sales costs?  Shouldn't that be an expense of the owner selling?   The trust is not the seller, the manager is.


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## Rent_Share (Oct 31, 2013)

The lines get blurred when they are one in the same, read my signature line


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