# Marriott’s Insane Sales Offer



## csalter2 (Oct 12, 2018)

Today I read a post on a Marriott Facebook site that really made me angry.  I could not believe the offer that was placed before a Chairman level owner
They offered to buy back her paid for week at Legend’s End. Then they wanted her to buy 2500 points. This was to help her pay less money in maintenance fees. 

I looked at the maintenance fees for weeks and it is more expensive in weeks at $1500 compared to points around $1200.  However, she would still have to pay for the 2500 points. I think Marriott has really began to sink to the lowest of the low. Why would I re-buy what I already have. 2500 points does not even get her back into Legend’s End except during its lowest season. Only during the lowest season which requires 1225 points would it be less expensive with points for what she would need to stay there any other season.  

She said sales stated that many people were taking advantage of this.


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## TXTortoise (Oct 12, 2018)

I saw that post, but they didn’t say what the buy offer was, correct?


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## LUVourMarriotts (Oct 13, 2018)

I believe I saw the same post, and I asked what she was offered.  It was just over $3000 for the Legends Edge week.  She also said it would cost $32,000 to buy the 2500 points, after Marriott provides the buyback money as down payment.  At $32,000, that's $12.80/pt.  Lets say it was $3500 for the buyback, that comes to $14.20/pt.  This means they are not really offering any existing owner discount, like they normally do.  No matter which way you look at it, this is a rip off.

What they are doing is trying to make things sound really appealing by trying to trick people into believing their story.  Some may see the $300/year savings as a good thing, but forget to consider that they are paying $32,000 to save $300/year.  Not me, but maybe some.


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## SeaDoc (Oct 13, 2018)

It would take over 100 years of reduced maintenance fees to even come close to breaking even, and of course, the major cash outlay to buy the points with loss of investment revenue on capital of $32,000 makes this a dreadful option.  Bundles remain the best deal, especially when one can get the cost per point close to what you can get 'on the street.'


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## csalter2 (Oct 13, 2018)

SeaDoc said:


> It would take over 100 years of reduced maintenance fees to even come close to breaking even, and of course, the major cash outlay to buy the points with loss of investment revenue on capital of $32,000 makes this a dreadful option.  Bundles remain the best deal, especially when one can get the cost per point close to what you can get 'on the street.'



What’s worse is this person already owned the property. Why would you sell back to Marriott only to rebuy it with points.  Even worse, 2500 points was not even enough points for her to stay at Legends End during platinum season when she usually went there.  She would have needed a little over 2900 points to stay there at the times she was accustomed to doing.  Fortunately she did not take the “deal” they were offering but I could not understand why they would even make an offer to her. have they no shame. It makes no sense.


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## SeaDoc (Oct 13, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> What’s worse is this person already owned the property. Why would you sell back to Marriott only to rebuy it with points.  Even worse, 2500 points was not even enough points for her to stay at Legends End during platinum season when she usually went there.  She would have needed a little over 2900 points to stay there at the times she was accustomed to doing.  Fortunately she did not take the “deal” they were offering but I could not understand why they would even make an offer to her. have they no shame. It makes no sense.



You have articulated beautifully why I am no longer Senior Sales Executive at Marriott Vacation Club.  My ethical standards have been the cornerstone of my life, and one with those standards can no longer survive within this organization.  Remember that when you opt to tour...  A loss of great talent has left the building... and I'm not alone...


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## davidvel (Oct 13, 2018)

SeaDoc said:


> You have articulated beautifully why I am no longer Senior Sales Executive at Marriott Vacation Club.  My ethical standards have been the cornerstone of my life, and one with those standards can no longer survive within this organization.  Remember that when you opt to tour...  A loss of great talent has left the building... and I'm not alone...


Doc,
You were a fair and straightforward salesperson, that helped steer us to enroll through an encore package. Curious if you have any confidentiality restrictions in your departure or if you can talk freely about the changes in sales staff and techniques that many of us are seeing.


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## SeaDoc (Oct 14, 2018)

davidvel said:


> Doc,
> You were a fair and straightforward salesperson, that helped steer us to enroll through an encore package. Curious if you have any confidentiality restrictions in your departure or if you can talk freely about the changes in sales staff and techniques that many of us are seeing.



All I can say, is what you are seeing is the new reality.  Just be prepared if you opt to tour.  Your fellow Tuggers can shed light on the 'new paradigm,' and perhaps a "Tour Experience Discussion" might be a good idea for focused feedback for others to know in advance on this forum?  I will continue to provide my 'two-cents' on how to use this program, to those that seek help.  It was my technique as a Sales Executive, and that won't change.  I'm glad you enrolled and thanks for the kind words Dave.


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## Steve Fatula (Oct 14, 2018)

There's still a few good sales executives, I know one off hand. There was a poll on Tug recently by someone wanting to rate the presentations, I believe it was broken down by had they gotten better or worse. 

There indeed is a massive difference between between them!


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## csalter2 (Oct 14, 2018)

Well, there is definitely a huge difference from when I bought my Ko Olina property pre-construction.  There was not the hard sell which I used to experience with Diamond Resorts/Sunterra. It seems as soon as Marriott went to the points system, the salespeople became more aggressive and misleading about the product. That was what I am accustomed to when dealing with Diamond who only sells points.  

I believe if you have a good product, it should sell itself. I think the push with Marriott is because those points are very expensive. I hope they change their ways.


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## Steve Fatula (Oct 14, 2018)

Depends who you get. I've been to more than 50 over the years, don't have an exact number. Of those, maybe 3 or so were hard sells. Just went to one this year, no hard sell. It depends where you go perhaps, and luck I am sure.

Of course, hard sells mean nothing for us. We have zero problem just saying no. Made pver a million rewards points plus all sorts of cash, all around the world trips we didn't pay for, etc.

I don't find the illogic of the OP example offer odd though. I do agree most of the "logic" used by the sales folks makes little sense. But some diamonds in the rough too.


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## LUVourMarriotts (Oct 14, 2018)

We don't 'normally' go to presentations anymore.  We went to one this past summer at OceanWatch because we were paying cash for a last minute stay, and they offered to pay for one nights rate if we went.  It was ~$700/night, so yes please.  This was a hard sell for sure.  After 2 hours, we had probably said no at least 50 times, but the last time, my wife said, "just stop and tell me where my kid is", because she was in the sales office kids room.  After about 10 no's, the sales manager came in and probably threw 10 different scenarios at us to try to get a yes.  The crazy thing is, the prices kept going up.

The reason we stopped going was because the last one we went to for the MRP/cash card incentive was a even harder sell.  It was at Aruba Surf Club.  The saleswoman we had was extremely pushy, telling us we were making a huge mistake, telling my wife she was not being a good wife because we were on vacation during my birthday and she should say yes for me, etc etc etc.  Then, she brought out her sales manager, who happened to be the guy we had bought Surf Club from 6 years earlier.  He was super nice at that time, so we assumed he would be again.  He was just as pushy as the saleswoman was, if not worse.  When we left that one, we told each other we would not keep going.


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## ExDean (Oct 15, 2018)

Had a somewhat similar experience at Lakeshore Reserve sales office.  In a nutshell...we were offered the opportunity to reduce our MFs by about $2000 per year if/when we *deeded back* our two Orlando properties (MGV -3BR lockoff and MRP) and purchase 1000DPs for $14,000.  We were told that we could continue to vacations by every year using getaways...some of which go for $800-$1400/week at places we like to stay in the season we like.  What a deal!!!  And, MVC sales people tell you all this with a straight face.  We too, have given up on the "Information Opportunity" invitation no matter what the incentive.


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## BocaBoy (Oct 17, 2018)

We will keep going to presentations every year.  The Destination Points incentives being offered these days can buy a few off season nights at places like Hilton Head, which is when we like to go.  The cost/benefit return for our 90 minutes (even 2 hours) is compelling and we would never say yes to a points purchase so that part is easy.


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## TXTortoise (Oct 17, 2018)

FWIW, we're heading to Boston Custom House on Friday.  Got a low pressure pre-arrival call and the offer was 25,000 MRs for a presentation.  Told them not likely, but we'll figure it out once there.  Strange part was she said it didn't look like we'd done a presentation and asked if we'd be interested.  We've probably done one a year for last 3-4 years, go figure.


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## davidvel (Oct 17, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Well, there is definitely a huge difference from when I bought my Ko Olina property pre-construction.  There was not the hard sell which I used to experience with Diamond Resorts/Sunterra. It seems as soon as Marriott went to the points system, the salespeople became more aggressive and misleading about the product. That was what I am accustomed to when dealing with Diamond who only sells points.
> 
> I believe if you have a good product, it should sell itself. I think the push with Marriott is because those points are very expensive. I hope they change their ways.


The product has changed, and the sales efforts, have followed. With weeks, there were all kinds of variations, lots of return with upfront MR points having value, and the ability to lock off, trade etc. Not that a developer week was ever a screaming deal, but there was value. 

With points it's just too easy to do simple math by looking at the number of points needed for a week where and when you want to go, then comparing how expensive it is to buy and maintain, counting the upfront costs and MF. With rare exception, it's almost always more than booking directly with Marriott.

The club is hard to sell, and a new crop of salespersons believe it's your duty to buy. I think it is fair to give names. My bad salesperson was Lonnie in Tahoe, who told me he had a mortgage to pay and showed me a picture of his toddler and wife he needed to feed, that he would struggle with if I didn't buy. Essentially he said it was my obligation to feed his family. Desperate and pathetic.


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## Steve Fatula (Oct 18, 2018)

That is pathetic.


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## Luvtoride (Oct 18, 2018)

WOW, David, that is pathetic and horrible.  He should lose his job, not just your sale.  It sounds like he's heard too many "economic reasons we can't buy right now"  excuses from customers, so he decided to turn the tables and try to guilt you into buying.  Awful.


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## brianfox (Oct 18, 2018)

Or perhaps Lonnie should look at a government job.  He'd fit in perfectly there.  It's sad that Marriott has come to this.


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## jeff76543 (Oct 19, 2018)

TXTortoise said:


> FWIW, we're heading to Boston Custom House on Friday.  Got a low pressure pre-arrival call and the offer was 25,000 MRs for a presentation.  Told them not likely, but we'll figure it out once there.  Strange part was she said it didn't look like we'd done a presentation and asked if we'd be interested.  We've probably done one a year for last 3-4 years, go figure.



I went to a presentation at Custom House a month and a half ago and it was low pressure and even pleasant (although I imagine that it's hard to believe that a presentation could be pleasant). It certainly was worth the incentive.


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## topmom101 (Oct 19, 2018)

I just attended a presentation at Grande Vista and posted about it. It was very low key and ended quick, sooner than 60 minutes. The saleswoman actually asked me if I was familiar with TUG and I replied that, yes, I was and was in fact a member. Funny thing was that after I gave her my Marriott history, which was that, 8 years ago I bought a 2 bedroom at Harbour Lake (EBay), I split it and without fail, have successfully exchanged to Aruba every year (including a recent week in a 2 bedroom from a studio deposit), this woman offers me 1,950 points at a cost of $27,000. When I pointed out that 1,950 points wouldn’t get me a 2 bedroom in Aruba, she said I could go a different time of the year or stay in a 1 bedroom. So, I said, “why would I do that? Right now I deposit and exchange into Aruba (my favorite destination) 2 weeks every year with just paying a Marriott to Marriott II fee”. She told me that in 3 or 4 years I wouldn’t be able to do that anymore.  I think the look on my face was a clear sign that the conversation was over, she got up and signed us out. BTW, the incentive was a $300 Amex Simon card.


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## icydog (Oct 22, 2018)

I think the point system is confusing for some legacy owners and therefore Marriott salespeople try to pull all kinds of shady stuff. 

I have attended tours for incentives and been told absolute lies---Or half-truths that make no sense.

I am done with touring. No matter what they offer me I say no. It is just too challenging to leave the tour without getting aggravated.


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## JanT (Oct 22, 2018)

LuvourMarriotts,

Just a bit of a hijack on the thread here.  I saw your Sox logo and just wanted to say congratulations and good luck in the WS!  Your guys beat my beloved Astros which makes me sad but I'm so proud of Alex Cora and all he accomplished with the Sox this year.  He took a good team and made them great.  Hope your guys take the Dodgers out in 4 straight!!  To say I dislike the Dodgers is an understatement but the Sox deserve to go all the way because they have just had an outstanding year.  Good luck!


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## Old Hickory (Oct 22, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Today I read a post on a Marriott Facebook site that really made me angry.  I could not believe the offer that was placed before a Chairman level owner.




What is "a post on a Marriott Facebook site"?   I'm serious.   Be skeptical of anything posted to Fakebook.   Russians are not the only trolls who use it successfully.


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## csalter2 (Oct 22, 2018)

Old Hickory said:


> What is "a post on a Marriott Facebook site"?   I'm serious.   Be skeptical of anything posted to Fakebook.   Russians are not the only trolls who use it successfully.



Well, in this case it was truly an American timeshare owner.


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## Old Hickory (Oct 23, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Well, in this case it was truly an American timeshare owner.



Is it?   Fakebook is well-known to have fake accounts and posts to influence behavior.  It doesn't use moderators like TUG or FlyerTalk.


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## TXTortoise (Oct 23, 2018)

Immerse yourself on the Marriott-interest FB sites, most have a common administrator, and you get a good sense of the posters background.  Mostly just lots of folks trying to figure it out...some posting stuff that’s not true, they just don’t know better. Others with good info.  Like any other “interest” page due diligence is required.  Somewhat like junior high and high school for Marriott timeshare users, while TUG is Harvard.


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## csalter2 (Oct 23, 2018)

Old Hickory said:


> Is it?   Fakebook is well-known to have fake accounts and posts to influence behavior.  It doesn't use moderators like TUG or FlyerTalk.



Yes, it is true.  Plus, there are people here who have experienced the same. It was just news to me.


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## chapmane1 (Nov 5, 2018)

SeaDoc said:


> You have articulated beautifully why I am no longer Senior Sales Executive at Marriott Vacation Club.  My ethical standards have been the cornerstone of my life, and one with those standards can no longer survive within this organization.  Remember that when you opt to tour...  A loss of great talent has left the building... and I'm not alone...


Hello - We have buyers remorse at having purchased 3,000 annual points from MVC in a moment of poor decision making about 18 months ago.  Yes, we did use some points to go to Hawaii, but overall, compared to Hyatt, we don't care for the whole MVC system, customer non-service, etc.  Probably a naive question, but are there any options to sell back our points without taking a tremendous loss?


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## SeaDoc (Nov 5, 2018)

chapmane1 said:


> Hello - We have buyers remorse at having purchased 3,000 annual points from MVC in a moment of poor decision making about 18 months ago.  Yes, we did use some points to go to Hawaii, but overall, compared to Hyatt, we don't care for the whole MVC system, customer non-service, etc.  Probably a naive question, but are there any options to sell back our points without taking a tremendous loss?


Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, you have ready access to 6000 points, any given year, as you can freely borrow from the year ahead.  You could have some very nice, and lengthy vacations with those points, which would amount to a heck more value than your 1500 maintenance fees.  I've even done some 14 day windstar cruises for 5000 points in a balcony suite for two.  This program works.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## chapmane1 (Nov 6, 2018)

SeaDoc said:


> Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, you have ready access to 6000 points, any given year, as you can freely borrow from the year ahead.  You could have some very nice, and lengthy vacations with those points, which would amount to a heck more value than your 1500 maintenance fees.  I've even done some 14 day windstar cruises for 5000 points in a balcony suite for two.  This program works.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Thanks for your reply. The maintenance fees are now up to $2000 a year and climbing. We will try and look for an Alaskan venue next year.


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## SeaDoc (Nov 6, 2018)

I do find the best cruise prices 2 to 3 months prior to departure as many of the cruise lines discount points at that time.  Also, you're including your club dues of approx. $200 plus the $1800 as the total maintenance - to be fair, $1800 is your maintenance, give or take, and $200 is the Club Dues... Just for 'fair and balanced' reporting... haha...


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## jeepie (Nov 6, 2018)

chapmane1 said:


> Hello - We have buyers remorse at having purchased 3,000 annual points from MVC in a moment of poor decision making about 18 months ago.  Yes, we did use some points to go to Hawaii, but overall, compared to Hyatt, we don't care for the whole MVC system, customer non-service, etc.  Probably a naive question, but are there any options to sell back our points without taking a tremendous loss?


Well, the market value of your points may now be around $4 per point, or $12,000. That’s reality, no use in having buyer’s remorse (I know, I have done the same thing). So, would you sell them for this price? You still can rent out your points for a small profit any year you don’t use them. You could also rent more points to top off the required points for your vacation. Who knows, you may even buy some resale points or weeks if/when you see the value (I did). Best of luck!


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 6, 2018)

It seems to be one of the themes of late.  Don't focus on purchase price, just focus on the run rate of MF.  And somehow really exaggerate that MFs if you stay with the "legacy thing" is going to increase 10 fold and if you buy this new thing, it will pay MF for itself.  They washed over the part that the reason MF pay for themselves is you rent the units to cover your MFs.  

So pay you 70K for something I already own and do something I'm already doing. 

Yeah but that is NOT what the presentation is trying to say but that is what it amounts to but I'd like to see that presentation proposal hocus pocus details in writing.  NOT.


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## chapmane1 (Nov 9, 2018)

jeepie said:


> Well, the market value of your points may now be around $4 per point, or $12,000. That’s reality, no use in having buyer’s remorse (I know, I have done the same thing). So, would you sell them for this price? You still can rent out your points for a small profit any year you don’t use them. You could also rent more points to top off the required points for your vacation. Who knows, you may even buy some resale points or weeks if/when you see the value (I did). Best of luck!


Thanks for your comments!!


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## chapmane1 (Nov 9, 2018)

SeaDoc said:


> I do find the best cruise prices 2 to 3 months prior to departure as many of the cruise lines discount points at that time.  Also, you're including your club dues of approx. $200 plus the $1800 as the total maintenance - to be fair, $1800 is your maintenance, give or take, and $200 is the Club Dues... Just for 'fair and balanced' reporting... haha...


I appreciate this advice as we are not “experienced cruisers”.


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## alohakevin (Nov 11, 2018)

csalter2 said:


> Well, there is definitely a huge difference from when I bought my Ko Olina property pre-construction.  There was not the hard sell which I used to experience with Diamond Resorts/Sunterra. It seems as soon as Marriott went to the points system, the salespeople became more aggressive and misleading about the product. That was what I am accustomed to when dealing with Diamond who only sells points.
> 
> I believe if you have a good product, it should sell itself. I think the push with Marriott is because those points are very expensive. I hope they change their ways.



It has been this way for years with (Starwood) Vistana. Sounds like culture creep.


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## TravelTime (Nov 11, 2018)

SeaDoc said:


> Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, you have ready access to 6000 points, any given year, as you can freely borrow from the year ahead.  You could have some very nice, and lengthy vacations with those points, which would amount to a heck more value than your 1500 maintenance fees.  I've even done some 14 day windstar cruises for 5000 points in a balcony suite for two.  This program works.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk



How have you gotten the 14 N Windstar cruises for 2 for 5000 DPs? That is a good deal!


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## bazzap (Nov 11, 2018)

TravelTime said:


> How have you gotten the 14 N Windstar cruises for 2 for 5000 DPs? That is a good deal!


That is exactly what I was thinking too.
I meant to do a little research before asking more about the specifics, but a Windstar cruise for that number of points is definitely something I would want to book.


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## SeaDoc (Nov 11, 2018)

Windstar is one of the few upper tier cruise lines that does discount 60-90 days prior to departure.  It is a wonderful cruise company too!!!  Hopefully, more of them will do the same.  Nothing worse than an empty cruise ship...  Hear that Viking, Crystal, et al???


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