# Resale market cost for SVO 2 BR LO Platinum



## RLG (Dec 18, 2006)

Does anyone have a view on what the typical resale price (sale price not asking price) would be for a 2BR lockout in the highest season (platinum?) for these Starwood resorts:

desert oasis
mountain vista
mission hills
kierland
lakeside terrace
princeville
kaanapali


In the interest of  "teach a man to fish", I'd be happy for someone to explain where this data is actually available.  Here's what I've already done:

a) looked at the much touted TUG database.  This appears to be useless as it has six entries in 2 years.
b) searched the website of most of the resale agents I found through TUG links.  These show asking prices, some of which are clearly off-market.  (For example, I saw otherwise identical EY and EOY units with similar asking prices.)
c) searched ebay for completed listings.  this is good for determining where trades are actually happening, as compared to people's wishful thinking asking prices.  unfortunately i didn't find any listings of the types for which i'm seeking value ranges.

Any help would be appreciated.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 19, 2006)

one possible problem is that if people declare their price - and it's documented - then if they go to sell their unit the buyer has info to use.

however, if you have been reading here you might get an idea of what is a 'good' to 'reasonable' price ('fair' does not come into play) for some of those resorts

princeville is not on resale market


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## mesamirage (Dec 19, 2006)

*Resale Prices*

I don't follow all the resale prices, but I will give my personal opinion on Good and Great prices for a couple of the SVO resorts that I have personal experience with... again just IMO.

*2 Bedroom Every Year Use*

*Sheraton Desert Oasis* (resale prices seem to have dropped this last year)
Good Price $3800-$4400
GREAT Price $3300-$3800 maybe a bit less.

*Westin Kierland* (Platinum 148,100 StarOptions, watch out for smaller point weeks)
Good Price $22,500-$24,500
GREAT Price $18,500-$22,500

These are "hunting" prices and will take time to find. I would be interested in what others think about these prices.


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## RLG (Dec 19, 2006)

mesamirage said:
			
		

> I will give my personal opinion on Good and Great prices for a couple of the SVO resorts that I have personal experience with



Thanks that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

I'm a little surprised by the big disparity between the two resorts.  I would have thought they'd be much closer together in price since the staroptions are the same.

I know about the difference between 'voluntary' and 'mandatory' resorts.  Is that what's producing the large difference in value?


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## RLG (Dec 19, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> one possible problem is that if people declare their price ... then if they go to sell their unit the buyer has info to use.



I don't think people are somehow disadvantaged by sharing sales price info.  Many of the sellers are professionals and they've got it.  In most jurisdictions that info is available to the pro's anyway since timeshares are real estate.

In any case, I find it implausible that it would lower a seller's price to have the buyer know what he paid.  If you and I are selling identical timeshares, I doubt that a buyer would be willing to pay me more just because I bought mine for more than you did originally.



			
				blujahz said:
			
		

> if you have been reading here you might get an idea of what is a 'good' to 'reasonable' price ...for some of those resorts



I've read just about every thread on the board and found remarkably little information about what a reasonable price would be for the units I mentioned.  Vistana, on the other hand, is widely discussed.  Do you have some links for things I might have missed?


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## tomandrobin (Dec 19, 2006)

mesamirage said:
			
		

> I don't follow all the resale prices, but I will give my personal opinion on Good and Great prices for a couple of the SVO resorts that I have personal experience with... again just IMO.
> 
> *2 Bedroom Every Year Use*
> 
> ...


 
I would add Vistana Villages 
Good Price $7,700-$8200
Great Price $6,500-$7,200

Lately the Vistana Village prices seem to have floated upward. 

Also Mission Hills prices seem to be around the $18,000 range, but Don't see a whole lot of Mission Hill units.


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## ccy (Dec 19, 2006)

tomandrobin said:
			
		

> I would add Vistana Villages
> Good Price $7,700-$8200
> Great Price $6,500-$7,200
> 
> ...


I don't think you could get those prices for VV 2br lockoff, they would be higher than that.


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## djp (Dec 19, 2006)

If you look for a while you can probably find a 2br lo ski week at mountain vista for @$12,000 this would be a good deal. Last time I checked a guy had an eoy for sale here on tug for $5500 And I considered buying it. You do not see alot of serious mountain vista resales during ski season. I say serious as you do see alot listed for $25-$35k on redweek and other sites, but that is alot for a resale timeshare, althought they are almost sold out of winter weeks there and are selling them for $45k. I think when the gondola is finished in Avon it will make Mountain vista an even more desirable ski location. I see mountain vista as well as the phoenix properties to be really nice resorts in locations that are great for 4 months, ok for 4 months and almost useless  for 4 months. So for people who bought platinum in these places they are in great shape with a great place to go and have alot of staroptions to boot,  people that bought gold are in pretty good shape still with 81000 options, and people who were talked into buying mud season in colorado, and blazing hell in arizona summer it is unfortunate that they  probably bought with the promise of great trades which will rpobably not come easily. That is why there is seems to be some advantage with places like Hawaii where there is year round demand.


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 19, 2006)

*Sales database*

I've had some luck locating "done deals" with the following link:

http://www.myresortnetwork.com/ForSale-stateS.asp?state=Arizona

You can modify it -- state by state -- by substituting the state in which you seeks closed deals; the one above obviously will give you Arizona sales only.

The two problems I have found with this database are (1) it does not give a date of sale, so it is possible (likely) that some of the data is stale, and (2) it only shows sales through Myresortnetwork.com, which tilts it towards broker sales which are probably at higher prices.  But it is the best I have found.

BTW, I recently purchased a Westin Kierland and agree with mesamirage's price ranges on the Arizona SVO properties.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 19, 2006)

RLG said:
			
		

> I don't think people are somehow disadvantaged by sharing sales price info.  Many of the sellers are professionals and they've got it.  In most jurisdictions that info is available to the pro's anyway since timeshares are real estate.
> 
> In any case, I find it implausible that it would lower a seller's price to have the buyer know what he paid.  If you and I are selling identical timeshares, I doubt that a buyer would be willing to pay me more just because I bought mine for more than you did originally.
> 
> ...



It is never to the sellers advantage when a buyer has reliable pricing info (it can only be neutral or a disadvantage). The best example (and most extreme) of this is the Developer cost vs. the resale cost.  If a buyer were to know about resale prices (and didn't think the incentives were worth it) - they would buy resale.  I have personally met 3 people that bought WKORV-N from SVO and had no idea there was a resale market.  This is why most people buy from SVO because they are unaware - meaning SVO has an advantage.

Now - let's evaluate the resale-to-resale market - take a look at >90% of the resale asking prices (Kierland for example) - I know because of research what a good-excellent price per SO that Kierland goes for - however, if a buyer discovers a resale market for Kierland (and they just came from the SVO presentation) they may think $24K is a great resale price and pay for that happily - BUT - if they were to do deeper research (e.g. found a complete resale database on TUG) - they would know that they may be able to get the same unit for $20K. This is a disadvantage to the seller of the $24K unit.

This happened to us with our WKORV OF purchase - compared to SVO it was a bargain, but if I had better access to WKORV OF resale prices I would have realized that we paid about $5K too much (advantage --- seller/broker).  It is too the advantage of a buyer to have a reliable listing of resale prices, and by logical extension - to the disadvantage of the seller. 

For our WSJ we paid a fantastic price - if I were to resale it for more (no plans) and somebody knew what I paid - they are inclined to start with that price in mind eventhough units are listed for >$10K more.  That cannot be to my advantage.

This may be why you will little info on TUG about what people end up paying.  I have stated mine in the past because I thought there would be a reciprocation (and there has to some extent) - but it turns out that few will share these prices and usually only by a PM.

Good luck with your research.


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## DeniseM (Dec 19, 2006)

When we were on Maui this last summer, we saw a number of 2 bdm. OV WKORV units listed with Maui Realtors for $35K, and  the lowest selling price I have heard of was about $31K.

And yes, the difference in price between mandatory and voluntary resorts is significant.


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## RLG (Dec 19, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> It is never to the sellers advantage when a buyer has reliable pricing info



To the extent that the seller (or buyer) is hoping to rip off a clueless counterpart who has no idea of value, that's true.  Developer sales are the strongest example of this.  

It's not necessarily true otherwise.  If both buyers and sellers knew the true value range for a particular property, the market would be a lot more liquid for both.

In any case, it's certainly disappointing if the reason there has been little data on TUG in the past is that people who have bought or sold think it's to their advantage to keep everyone else in the dark.



			
				blujahz said:
			
		

> For our WSJ we paid a fantastic price - if I were to resale it ... they are inclined to start with that price in mind even though units are listed for >$10K more.



They can start wherever they want.  (In most places your price is a matter of public record.)  Someone sophisticated enough to look up what you paid would presumably look up what others are paying *now* to determine value.

If the true market value is more than you paid, I think it would be to your benefit for the true value to be well known.  BTW, I assume you know that *asking* prices aren't necessarily useful for determining what the current market value of your property is?


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## RLG (Dec 19, 2006)

vacationtime1 said:
			
		

> I've had some luck locating "done deals" with the following link:
> 
> http://www.myresortnetwork.com/ForSale-stateS.asp?state=Arizona



Thank you.  That's incredibly useful.  I had missed that link on their website.

So far this thread has been very valuable.  Hopefully, more people will be motivated to share their information with the community.


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## arlene22 (Dec 19, 2006)

RLG said:
			
		

> Thank you.  That's incredibly useful.  I had missed that link on their website.
> 
> So far this thread has been very valuable.  Hopefully, more people will be motivated to share their information with the community.



Those look like asking prices to me. Are they supposed to be final sales prices?


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## vacationtime1 (Dec 19, 2006)

arlene22 said:
			
		

> Those look like asking prices to me. Are they supposed to be final sales prices?



They purport to be sale prices.  The pages in Myresortnetwork.com with active listings (although formatted similarly) show sold items differently.  Also, there are some "off the wall" prices on the listing pages but not on the sold pages.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 19, 2006)

I have stated what I spent and what resale prices I have seen for other places.  However, I do stand by what I said that real price info for the buyer is not advantageous to the seller - you can discount it, or the reason for it, but it is what it is.

The real-life scenerios that I gave support this - if a buyer knew what others spent - they would be not inclined to spend more. This is/was true for me - especially for my Kierland purchase.  I held fast in what I wanted to spend - and it worked out for me because I had some info on what others spent (by asking about 20 other owners by PM).  I would have saved $5K on our WKORV OF purchase if I had this info - that savings to me could have ONLY been a loss to the seller.

As to why this may be the reason that there is no resale price database for TSs is only my opinion based on my obseravtions in asking others what they spent.  I have had personal experience that very few people will tell you what they spent - I cannot speak to their motivations - I was merely speculating.


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## tomandrobin (Dec 19, 2006)

ccy said:
			
		

> I don't think you could get those prices for VV 2br lockoff, they would be higher than that.


 
Do a search of completed auctions for Vistana Village on e-bay. Tell me what you find.


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## duke (Dec 19, 2006)

Here's my view on actual resale prices.  

WKORV OV  $30,000 annual
WKORV OV  $18,000 eoy
WKORV OF  $45 - $50 annual - deluxe

WMH Plat.   $10,000 annual
WMH Plat.   $  5,000 eoy

SMV Plat.   $10,000 annual
SMV Plat.   $ 5,000 eoy

Kierland Plat.  $20,000 annual
Kierland Plat.  $10,000 eoy

This was determined from personal experience and calling around.  Also, these prices are withOUT brokers.  Brokers up the price significantly.

My view is that if you buy the Voluntary resorts resale and later requalify you will have a much better deal all in.  You get StarOptions, StarPoints, and Elite.  AND, you will end up with more StarOptions with the total of your two purchases.  I think the Mandatory resorts resale are overpriced because most buyers do not understand the requalify policy or it is too much hassle.

PS:  I feel that most on TUG are buyers so this info is of significant value.

All the best,
Duke


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## ccy (Dec 19, 2006)

tomandrobin said:
			
		

> Do a search of completed auctions for Vistana Village on e-bay. Tell me what you find.


I did check.  A couple of them sold for $8800 and $7700 recently, they're standard 2 brs with 81k staroptions.  Another std 2br sold for $6500 with 67,100 staroptions.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 19, 2006)

duke said:
			
		

> Here's my view on actual resale prices.
> 
> *WKORV OF  $45 - $50 annual - deluxe*
> 
> ...


The lowest I have seen on a WKORV OF Deluxe is $49.5K on eBay (unsold) by Stroman.  The lowest I have heard that has actually sold is $52.5K.


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## Ken555 (Dec 20, 2006)

mesamirage said:
			
		

> *2 Bedroom Every Year Use*
> 
> *Sheraton Desert Oasis* (resale prices seem to have dropped this last year)
> Good Price $3800-$4400
> GREAT Price $3300-$3800 maybe a bit less.



I was following an eBay auction this week on a 2bed 1-52 platinum at DO, which eventually sold yesterday for $4,853.xx

Keep in mind that there are two different types of "platinum" weeks at DO - those that are good year round (like this one) and those deeds which were issued since SVN took over and are only good in the winter. 



> *Westin Kierland* (Platinum 148,100 StarOptions, watch out for smaller point weeks)
> Good Price $22,500-$24,500
> GREAT Price $18,500-$22,500
> 
> These are "hunting" prices and will take time to find. I would be interested in what others think about these prices.



In the last few months I haven't seen many Kierland Platinums less than $25,000 as an asking price, though you may be accurate as to actual sale price. That said, since I bought mine last year I haven't seen any less than $22,000 or so...and have never heard of someone (in the last year) buying for under $20,000. Have you?


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 20, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> princeville is not on resale market



I stand corrected 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190064508606&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1

what a deal - pay higher for resale than from the developer


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## duke (Dec 20, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> I stand corrected
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190064508606&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1
> 
> what a deal - pay higher for resale than from the developer




This is a misrepresentation on Ebay.  He is offering ability to trade for StarPoints.  Leads me to believe he is a Princeville Developer Salesperson.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 20, 2006)

duke said:
			
		

> This is a misrepresentation on Ebay.  It looks like a EOY but does not say so.  Also, he is offering ability to trade for StarPoints.  Leads me to believe he is a Princeville Developer Salesperson.


It does say that it is an EOY (even years) in the 2nd line of the Ad header.  I agree - either a SVO salesperson - or an very misinformed seller.

Are the EOY for WPORV really at $37K - I thought the annual was only around $50K


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## myip (Dec 20, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> It does say that it is an EOY (even years) in the 2nd line of the Ad header.  I agree - either a SVO salesperson - or an very misinformed seller.
> 
> Are the EOY for WPORV really at $37K - I thought the annual was only around $50K


EOY is 60% of annual unless you are already starwood owner ... so it is around $35K.


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## zinger1457 (Dec 20, 2006)

Ken555 said:
			
		

> In the last few months I haven't seen many Kierland Platinums less than $25,000 as an asking price, though you may be accurate as to actual sale price. That said, since I bought mine last year I haven't seen any less than $22,000 or so...and have never heard of someone (in the last year) buying for under $20,000. Have you?



I purchased a Kierland 2BR Platinum resale a year ago for $20K but haven't seen any recently for less than $25K.  Is the developer still selling the Platinum season at Kierland?  When I went through the tour a year ago they only had a few left and were really pushing the gold and silver seasons.


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## mesamirage (Dec 20, 2006)

Ken555 said:
			
		

> I was following an eBay auction this week on a 2bed 1-52 platinum at DO, which eventually sold yesterday for $4,853.xx
> 
> Keep in mind that there are two different types of "platinum" weeks at DO - those that are good year round (like this one) and those deeds which were issued since SVN took over and are only good in the winter.


 
That seems a bit high vs previous sales that I have seen. Even on myresortnetwork you see them "listed" for ~$4500 and that is asking with Broker fees.... (the all year round are the only units worth owning)



			
				Ken555 said:
			
		

> In the last few months I haven't seen many Kierland Platinums less than $25,000 as an asking price, though you may be accurate as to actual sale price. That said, since I bought mine last year I haven't seen any less than $22,000 or so...and have never heard of someone (in the last year) buying for under $20,000. Have you?


 
IMO if there are asking prices of $25,000 I personally wouldn't be satisfied unless I got at least 10-20% off the asking price... at a minimum.... so I would expect that some of those $25,000 units have sold for $22,000 or less... 

I paid $10,500 for my EOY Westin Kierland just a few months back and that was thru http://www.timeshareaz.com and I think if I wanted to risk losing it I could have held out for $10,000.


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## Ken555 (Dec 21, 2006)

zinger1457 said:
			
		

> I purchased a Kierland 2BR Platinum resale a year ago for $20K but haven't seen any recently for less than $25K.  Is the developer still selling the Platinum season at Kierland?  When I went through the tour a year ago they only had a few left and were really pushing the gold and silver seasons.



I was at Kierland a few months ago, and they said that was their "last week" selling Kierland - the platinums had sold out months before, and they only had a few weeks left (mostly silver).


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## Ken555 (Dec 21, 2006)

mesamirage said:
			
		

> IMO if there are asking prices of $25,000 I personally wouldn't be satisfied unless I got at least 10-20% off the asking price... at a minimum.... so I would expect that some of those $25,000 units have sold for $22,000 or less...



It's nice to dream. I'm seeing a consistent increase in Platinum Kierland pricing over the last six months, and if you purchase thru a broker I suspect you'll end up paying more than you think. I bought mine last year for just over $20k and it was very clear that they had more offers than sellers, and I see no reason for that to have changed. Kierland has every advantage on the resale market, and the brokers know that. Of course, if you find an individual who wants to sell you might save a bit, but brokers don't (shouldn't) get more than $1000-1500 for listing this type of t/s, so the savings aren't extreme.



> I paid $10,500 for my EOY Westin Kierland just a few months back and that was thru http://www.timeshareaz.com and I think if I wanted to risk losing it I could have held out for $10,000.



Your broker has a Platinum annual week listed at $27,000, and a Gold 2-bed for $11,900. 'nuf said.


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## mesamirage (Dec 21, 2006)

Ken555 said:
			
		

> *It's nice to dream*. I'm seeing a consistent increase in Platinum Kierland pricing over the last six months, and if you purchase thru a broker I suspect you'll end up paying more than you think. I bought mine last year for just over $20k and it was very clear that they had more offers than sellers, and I see no reason for that to have changed. Kierland has every advantage on the resale market, and the brokers know that. Of course, if you find an individual who wants to sell you might save a bit, but brokers don't (shouldn't) get more than $1000-1500 for listing this type of t/s, so the savings aren't extreme.
> 
> 
> Your broker has a Platinum annual week listed at $27,000, and a Gold 2-bed for $11,900. 'nuf said.


 
I'm just suggesting what I think the weeks can go for (with a little hunting) which I think *is* "*Nice to Dream*" about, you seem a bit defensive?? about the prices. Trust me as an owner of the resort as well, I also want the prices to be as healthy as possible. The fact is that thru that broker less than 90 days ago I paid $10,500 for a Platinum EOY (148,000 points) unit. There are many deals to be made and current listings can be as much of a reflection of what the sellers "dream" to get vs the actual prices someone should pay.

I think you will find my original estimate to be realistic and not a dream...
*Westin Kierland* (Platinum 148,100 StarOptions, watch out for smaller point weeks)
Good Price $22,500-$24,500
GREAT Price $18,500-$22,500

I personally think a Kierland EY 2Bd LO can be found for somewhere between $21k-$22k even today with just a bit of patience and shopping.

I mean *WHO *pays asking price in the world of unused timeshares with maintence fees that eventually will push the motivated sellers to unload their developer bought timeshares at *GREAT* resales prices for all us TUG members!! 

MF Bills = motivated sellers = Early Xmas presents for TUG members looking for resales!!  
P.S. *DONT PAY ASKING PRICES!!*


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 21, 2006)

Ken555 said:
			
		

> Your broker has a Platinum annual week listed at $27,000, and a Gold 2-bed for $11,900. 'nuf said.



OK...  I will stir the muck...

We just paid ~15 cents per SO for a 1Bd - Platinum (81K SOs) at WKV. {from the same broker}  The person who sold must have lost money on this since they had a loan out from SVO    that shows what they owed (bought in 2002).  It appears that they were very motivated to drop the unit and this may have been why the price was low that and may not be the norm. 
(but how would one know since there isn't a reliable database...? sorry, I couldn't help myself...)

Personally, if I were looking for 148.1K at WKV - I would not pay over $22K - and I would be patient in doing so.  Mainly,  because I know people who claim to have spent less - and I have my purchase price as a reference (to my previous point...)

There may not be any now - but I have a feeling that there will be once the MFs are due.

- David (not Robin)


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## mesamirage (Dec 21, 2006)

blujahz said:
			
		

> Personally, if I were looking for 148.1K at WKV - I would not pay over $22K - and I would be patient in doing so. Mainly, because I know people who claim to have spent less - and I have my purchase price as a reference (to my previous point...)
> 
> There may not be any now - but I have a feeling that there will be once the MFs are due.
> 
> - David (not Robin)


 
*I totally agree with you... I know I wouldn't personally pay over $21K (prob why I still haven't found a week to purchase) and I would hope/expect that there may possibly be unused banked weeks.*


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## YoungCat (Dec 21, 2006)

Ken555 said:
			
		

> Your broker has a Platinum annual week listed at $27,000, and a Gold 2-bed for $11,900. 'nuf said.



Ken are you trying to justify the price you paid to yourself?  or feel like you got a better deal or something?  You got a solid price at $20,000 but I think its much more likely than you think that buyers can still get in close to that price.  On the flip side you could likely sell yours for $20,000 or higher, maybe $22-23,000 so you did get value, but $27,000 -an asking price- is plain unrealistic that any educated resale buyer would pay that much.


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## Ken555 (Dec 25, 2006)

Wow. You guys are really taking this the wrong way. 

I posted the current prices for the same reseller, which are significantly higher than *any* of us would want to pay, and somehow I'm the guilty party by mentioning it? 

I've also never heard of Kierland Platinum for selling under $20k, and have asked on more than one occasion for first hand experience with that. I haven't seen anyone speak up about that (am I wrong?) yet more than one of you thinks you can find it under $20k. I don't get this - I'm trying to talk about realistic prices, not wishes.

And, of course you can find unusual prices at times. People sell t/s's for a variety of reasons, some of which are due to unexpected life events which necessitate a quick sale and a low price. I don't think those exceptions should be considered anywhere near the norm.

Please, take a deep breath before replying next time.


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## Ken555 (Dec 25, 2006)

YoungCat said:


> Ken are you trying to justify the price you paid to yourself?  or feel like you got a better deal or something?  You got a solid price at $20,000 but I think its much more likely than you think that buyers can still get in close to that price.  On the flip side you could likely sell yours for $20,000 or higher, maybe $22-23,000 so you did get value, but $27,000 -an asking price- is plain unrealistic that any educated resale buyer would pay that much.



Um...I'm not interested in the least in selling my t/s. 

I was just mentioning that at all brokers sites (and other online posts) that I've seen in the last year, prices have risen significantly on Kierland Plats. I don't think this is surprising in the least since they've stopped developer sales and Plats sold out earlier this year. Again, multiple broker sites are showing Kierland Plats at $25-27k when those same brokers had them for $20-22k last year. Regardless of how/if you negotiate the purchase price, this appears to be a general trend showing an increase in price for this ownership. That was my main point, but it seems to have been overshadowed by others trying to twist my statements into something they're not...

I'm just trying to learn more and am honestly interested in hearing what Kierland Plat prices are - real prices, not wishful prices. I see no advantage in discussing a price as realistic when it hasn't sold for that in a year, if ever. Do you?


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## Ken555 (Dec 25, 2006)

mesamirage said:


> The fact is that thru that broker less than 90 days ago I paid $10,500 for a Platinum EOY (148,000 points) unit.



Bottom line: you got a great deal. Congrats!

Given the option, I'd buy a Kierland Plat EOY for $10,500 as well.


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## duke (Dec 27, 2006)

There is a Kierland Platinum for sale at a Broker site for $23,900 asking.  

$20k should easily take it.

http://www.smartchoicetimeshares.com/

I would offer less though.....


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## mesamirage (Dec 27, 2006)

duke said:


> There is a Kierland Platinum for sale at a Broker site for $23,900 asking.
> 
> $20k should easily take it.
> 
> ...


 
I thought about offering $18,500... but then realized they might actually take it... YIKES!!  Like I need another MF fee!!.... Ken you want my EOY??    then I could purchase the EY....  (mod.. just a joke not really trying to sell thru the forum)


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## Ken555 (Jan 1, 2007)

mesamirage said:


> I thought about offering $18,500... but then realized they might actually take it... YIKES!!  Like I need another MF fee!!.... Ken you want my EOY??    then I could purchase the EY....  (mod.. just a joke not really trying to sell thru the forum)



Hmm... this might be worth a call for those interested in Kierland. And, uh, I could be easily convinced to grab a Plat Kierland EOY...


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## ssharpey (Jan 1, 2007)

*WKOR*

Does anybody know how much a good price would be for a 2br lockout Island view at the Westin Kaanapali Ocean resort go for?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 1, 2007)

There are 2 on TUG classified - offer? $27.5K?


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## mesamirage (Jan 2, 2007)

duke said:


> There is a Kierland Platinum for sale at a Broker site for $23,900 asking.
> 
> $20k should easily take it.
> 
> ...


 
I called/emailed and offered the broker $18,000 for the week. She emailed me back that it had sold for $23k last week.... WOW that didn't stay listed for long!! I guess Ken was correct about the uptick in Kierland prices... 

I must say as an owner I am happy to see the solid pricing at Westin Kierland... just not happy at Westin's continued MF increases!

Is there a Westin that is going down in price?? Maybe Mission Hills has eased up on pricing a bit, but I think all the Westin locations have held or increased in pricing both retail and resale.

Now the Sheraton prices are a complete different story.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 3, 2007)

If you look at the SmartrChoice Website - most of their WKV units are listed as sale pending when most were available a month ago,


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## duke (Jan 3, 2007)

What is the developer price for Kierland Platinum 2 br l/o?  Are they available now?


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## mesamirage (Jan 3, 2007)

duke said:


> What is the developer price for Kierland Platinum 2 br l/o? Are they available now?


 
From what I understand from my last visit to the resort all the EY 2bd plat had been sold, and that they had a "few" EOY units avail. for $23,900.

I did receive this from Starwood about 2 weeks ago (of which I responded with the questions below her email):

My department caters to valued owners like yourself. Right now you can purchase your bi-annual platinum lock off villa for ONLY 18,000 plus a 350 administrative fee (presentation purchase price is currently 23,900). 

What we do is very simple. In order to add a villa to your vacation portfolio, we take a deposit by credit card via email or telephone. We will overnight your documents to you wherever you would like for us to send them. We highlight everywhere that you need to sign and initial. The documents do need to be notarized. We just ask that the documents are returned to us within 7 days of receipt as the offer is time/price sensitive. With documents back to us, this comes with an incentive of 40,000 Starpoints for you to enjoy.

Please let me know as soon as possible if this is something you might be interested in. Inventory is extremely low at this property.

Warm Regards,
Jeri

P.S. The administrative fee will be 595 on January 1.

Jeri,

Thanks for the info. I have a couple questions that could help us decide to purchase.

1) My current week is was a resale purchase, I would like to "qualify" my existing week/s with this purchase so that I would get full benefits with both weeks with StarPoints, Is that something that we can get done? (Timeshare websites mention this happens on a common basis) 
2) Also, would this purchase and my current resale week help me to get to elite status? I would like to be able to make reservations 13 months out versus the standard 12 months.
3) I assume I would get SPG which would now be useful with both my weeks (even though that is mostly about Hotel stays and not the timeshare stays)
4) I would need an odd EOY to compliment my existing even year week. Since getting an odd year would mean 2007 usage, I would like assistance with booking my 2007 week as part of the deal since it may be difficult for me to book a good week with the 2007 less than a year out. We would prefer a Hawaii week and have some flexibility, this is something we can talk about. 

Sorry for the list of items being so long, but these are the things we would need to purchase a developer week instead of resale (since there is such a difference in price) Also, I own 2 weeks at Sheraton Desert Oasis, any suggestions on what we might be able to due with these weeks to possibly bring them into the SVN network? 

Thanks for your assistance,

*So Far No Reply*


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## arlene22 (Jan 4, 2007)

Isn't 13 vs. 12 months a Marriott thing? I have not heard of Starwood resorts that offer this. Does Westin Kierland?


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## mesamirage (Jan 4, 2007)

arlene22 said:


> Isn't 13 vs. 12 months a Marriott thing? I have not heard of Starwood resorts that offer this. Does Westin Kierland?


 
Your correct, when I spoke with Jeri from Starwood they do not have the 13 month option.  As expected they would only offer to requal one of my 3 resale weeks.  I passed on all their offers... there wasn't anything special.

Bummer because my Sheraton Desert Oasis units combined (2 bd, 1 bd prem) would have been worth 118,000 staroptions if requalifed (EOY) and since I only have just over $2500 in my 2 SDO units, that would have been a STEAL!!!


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 4, 2007)

They only offer one for one in requalifying a resale - this is done with regards to the week type (annual or EOY) and is not based on StarOptions.  This has been previously discussed.  For example - we were told that we could pick up the cheapest annual week in Cancun and requalify our annual week at WKORV (148.1 K SOs).

For owners of a fixed week/unit - they do allow you to reserve 14 months out - I have done this in April 2006 for our 2007 June week at WSJ, and received immediate email confirmation.  The cutoff date to reserve the fixed unit/week is 10 months in advance (not 8 months) - if not reserved by 10 months you can only get a week within your season at 8-10 months out.  At 8 months it is open for SVN exchange (as normal).


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## arlene22 (Jan 4, 2007)

blujahz said:


> For owners of a fixed week/unit - they do allow you to reserve 14 months out - I have done this in April 2006 for our 2007 June week at WSJ, and received immediate email confirmation.



Do you mean that you were able to lock in your deeded week at 14 months out? or you were able to reserve a different week in your season 14 months out?


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 4, 2007)

arlene22 said:


> Do you mean that you were able to lock in your deeded week at 14 months out? or you were able to reserve a different week in your season 14 months out?



For a fixed week/unit (not float):
The deeded week and deeded unit can be reserved by the owner at 14 months out.  And must be reserved by 10 months out (vs. 8 months).   For an owner - reserving a different week within a season happens between 8 and 10 months out. {good luck...}

You don't hear about this often because most SVO TS weeks are float.  I was not aware of this until a SVN rep told me.  The Hillside WSJ TSs are fixed.
Because of issues with WSJ inventory control caused by this (few units ever become available for switching within a season - and that translates to very few available for SVN exchange) the BayView units being reconfigured to TSs will have a limit to how many can be fixed for a given week.

A downside to having a fixed week is that trying to use a SVN exchange for an adjacent week to the deeded week is almost impossible (for an non-5* Elite member) because of the SVN rules of having to release the unit that you want to exchange in order to be on the waitlist.

Personally - I see this ,and the ability to potentially get a better view request over an owner (so I was told by a TS salesperson) as the best benefits of being 5* or Platinum Elite.


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## GrayFal (Jan 4, 2007)

Ken555 said:


> I've also never heard of Kierland Platinum for selling under $20k, and have asked on more than one occasion for first hand experience with that. I haven't seen anyone speak up about that (am I wrong?) yet more than one of you thinks you can find it under $20k. I don't get this - I'm trying to talk about realistic prices, not wishes.
> 
> .


FYI - on ebay - starting price 16K
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=170059347005&rd=1&rd=1

(this is not my week and I do nt know the seller)


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## tomandrobin (Jan 4, 2007)

GrayFal said:


> FYI - on ebay - starting price 16K
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=170059347005&rd=1&rd=1
> 
> (this is not my week and I do nt know the seller)


 
Week 37, not platinum and only worth 81,000 staroptions.....not a good price in my opinion.


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## GrayFal (Jan 4, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> Week 37, not platinum and only worth 81,000 staroptions.....not a good price in my opinion.


...I am only learning :ignore: 
Thanks for your opinion - I was wondering about the low point value.


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## ketamine (Mar 4, 2007)

"a) looked at the much touted TUG database.  This appears to be useless as it has six entries in 2 years."

This has been a HUGE disappointment to me as a new TUG member !! Any hopes of newer info??


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## ketamine (Mar 5, 2007)

BUT - if they were to do deeper research (e.g. found a complete resale database on TUG) -

Please tell us how one can find a complete resale database on TUG??? I would be so grateful to discover this.

thanks
mk


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## DeniseM (Mar 5, 2007)

ketamine said:


> "a) looked at the much touted TUG database.  This appears to be useless as it has six entries in 2 years."
> 
> This has been a HUGE disappointment to me as a new TUG member !! Any hopes of newer info??



TUG has no paid employees - it's all volunteer.  TUG has over 16 thousand registered users, many owning multiple weeks - a comprehensive data base of all sales/purchases would be an overwhelming task.

Your best bet for current information is members in specific areas (like Starwood owners) who follow sales on various online websites.


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## Robert D (Mar 5, 2007)

If you're looking at a voluntary resort like SDO or SMV, I think you can probably get a better deal buying two 1BR's. Usually the small 1BR goes pretty cheap and I think the MF at SDO for a 2 BR (all are lockoffs) is the total of the two 1BR's.  I assume you could reverve both for the same week and request two units together if you need a 2BR.  I don't know if this plan holds true for the much more expensive mandatory resorts.


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## eugeneleemd (Mar 7, 2007)

*kierland resale*

just got 2 offers from diff realtors for the WK 2 bed plat annual (148100 so pts) for 22k and 550 closing. will see if i can play them to get closer to 21k.  does it seem like a reasonable deal?? thx, have learned a bunch from this forum


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## eugeneleemd (Mar 7, 2007)

*WK*

down to 20750, don't know how much lower i can get them to go.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 7, 2007)

eugeneleemd said:


> down to 20750, don't know how much lower i can get them to go.



That is a very good price - I would jump on it if it meets your needs - the $550 closing costs are a bit high....


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## eugeneleemd (Mar 7, 2007)

*update*

so, i'm taking the WK at 20750. apparently the two realtors were representing the same seller (still managed to get from 22500 to 20750, ironically). thanks again for suggesting what a great/good price was for this property. btw, also bought a westin k-north 2 bed EOY for 17k, does that seem like a reasonable price for the new property?


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## DeniseM (Mar 7, 2007)

eugeneleemd said:


> so, i'm taking the WK at 20750. apparently the two realtors were representing the same seller (still managed to get from 22500 to 20750, ironically). thanks again for suggesting what a great/good price was for this property. btw, also bought a westin k-north 2 bed EOY for 17k, does that seem like a reasonable price for the new property?



We have seen every year, 2 bdm., ocean view units, at the WKORV go for as low as $31K, so that price is right there in the ball park.  What's the view?


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## eugeneleemd (Mar 7, 2007)

*wk-north*

its for an oceanview


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 7, 2007)

eugeneleemd said:


> so, i'm taking the WK at 20750. apparently the two realtors were representing the same seller (still managed to get from 22500 to 20750, ironically). thanks again for suggesting what a great/good price was for this property. btw, also bought a westin k-north 2 bed EOY for 17k, does that seem like a reasonable price for the new property?



By this do you mean that you bought an EOY 2Bd LO at WKORV-N (not WKORV) for $17K?  If so, then this is an incredible price no matter what the view is!   However, are you sure it was the WKORV-N (that hasn't even opened yet?) or WKORV?  

I ask this because the your price is aligned with WKORV - and not WKORV-N.  The WKORV-N prices are much higher than this - so if someone did sell this to you, then they took an extreme (and unnecessary) loss since the EY IV at WKOTV-N ran about $47K (I say ran because they are sold out).

What was the address of the resort for the EOY week that you bought?  This will confirm what you bought.  I have seen many instances where WKORV was advertised as WKORV-N (because they are both located in North Ka'anapali).


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## eugeneleemd (Mar 7, 2007)

well, i asked the lady twice, since she had advertised under the older WKORV, and she said it was for the new north side, hence wouldn't be avail til 2008.  will have to check the deed when it comes in.  i think they had to unload to help their kids pay for college.


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## DeniseM (Mar 7, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> By this do you mean that you bought an EOY 2Bd LO at WKORV-N (not WKORV) for $17K?  If so, then this is an incredible price no matter what the view is!   However, are you sure it was the WKORV-N (that hasn't even opened yet?) or WKORV?




With these two properties side by side, don't you think that resale prices will eventually be about the same for both?  Why would anyone want pay a LOT  more for a resale at the WKORVN, if they can buy resale at the WKORV for less?  It's a good deal, but if you are looking at the resale value, we've seen resales for a little less at the WKORV.

Actually, I HOPE resale prices are high at the WKORVN, because it should jack up resale prices at the WKORV!


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## califgal (Mar 8, 2007)

I think the WKORVN units are situated better on the property so more units have a pool view.  Also the buildings might be in a better position on the property to block the wind( I've been to WKORV when the wind was wild!) rather than acting as a wind tunnel like at WKORV.  Also aren't the 2 bdrm lockoffs actually joined by a lock off door rather than the separate entry in the common hallway?  Just a few thoughts on why it might be more expensive in the long run.  Also a more elaborate pool area, although we're suppose to be able to have access, Starwood can change their minds, or maybe it will be up to the association.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> With these two properties side by side, don't you think that resale prices will eventually be about the same for both?  Why would anyone want pay a LOT  more for a resale at the WKORVN, if they can buy resale at the WKORV for less?  It's a good deal, but if you are looking at the resale value, we've seen resales for a little less at the WKORV.
> 
> Actually, I HOPE resale prices are high at the WKORVN, because it should jack up resale prices at the WKORV!



I hadn't thought of it like that - but that is a brutal loss for a brand new resort that isn't even open.  Seems as if WKORV-N should be higher just based on that they are newer - and SVO is still actively selling - but I guess you are right - why pay more? (Unless you want a LO that is connected by a common door, a flat screen TV - or...)  

Mark this as another reason to buy resale - sure hope the seller got lots of incentive points - or maybe they just bought to requal a resale to get to 5* Elite.  :hysterical:


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2007)

califgal said:


> I think the WKORVN units are situated better on the property so more units have a pool view.  Also the buildings might be in a better position on the property to block the wind( I've been to WKORV when the wind was wild!) rather than acting as a wind tunnel like at WKORV.  Also aren't the 2 bdrm lockoffs actually joined by a lock off door rather than the separate entry in the common hallway?  Just a few thoughts on why it might be more expensive in the long run.  Also a more elaborate pool area, although we're suppose to be able to have access, Starwood can change their minds, or maybe it will be up to the association.



I agree that there are certain aspects of WKORV-N than WKORV that are better.  However, there are things about WKORV that may be better for some.  I would hold up the OF Deluxe unit in comparison to the OF at WKORV-N. The MFs are about the same, but ours is bigger, is a true OF, it has a *much *larger lanai (both sides) - has large windows on the side (with great light and a panaromic view) 
[this is a big minus at WKORV-N - IMO - they could have put large windows on the sides of the buildings - especially with the angled units, but for some reason choose not to]

WKORV-N also sits back further from the ocean - and seems a bit closer to the highway.  But there are definitely less bad unit locations at WKORV-N.

Disclosure - we rescinded our OF at WKORV-N (~$70K!!!!) when we got home and found TUG -  and why we bought OF - even with a $20K premium - we were feeling fortunate just to have saved ~$20K.

Anyway - we actually prefer the foyer (vs. the common door) even with the wasted space.  We have no need for a common door, and we like the separation and privacy that the foyer gives (or just bring door stops).

WKORV-N's design may block the wind somewhat - but the whole sloped area of north Ka'anapali is windy.  WKORV is situated with low level buildings to the south with protected open space - WKORV-N will be sandwiched between two resorts with liimited open space (wash).


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## eugeneleemd (Mar 8, 2007)

*wkorv or wkorv-n?*

so the address she listed on the contract is the 6 (wkorv) instead of 170 (wkorv-n), but the unit number is 736566, which is the newer property. so i guess i'll have to wait and see the deed.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2007)

eugeneleemd said:


> so the address she listed on the contract is the 6 (wkorv) instead of 170 (wkorv-n), but the unit number is 736566, which is the newer property. so i guess i'll have to wait and see the deed.



I would not wait for the deed - call SVO Title Services - I will send the phone number (if you can't find it).  Call them - tell them the situation - and ask which resort is this for.


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## eugeneleemd (Mar 8, 2007)

*success*

so called a sales rep and found out its for the new north property, whew. now that i have 2 resales, which property is the cheapest developer in order to requalify later on (for elite status, don't plan on ever using as starpoints) and how much do they run?


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## skim118 (Mar 8, 2007)

eugeneleemd said:


> well, i asked the lady twice, since she had advertised under the older WKORV, and she said it was for the new north side, hence wouldn't be avail til 2008.  will have to check the deed when it comes in.  i think they had to unload to help their kids pay for college.



Welcome to Starwood & based on the deals you are getting I am glad for you.

Bargains for Tuggers are clearly disasters for others;  we purchased a Worldmark membership last year that was originally sold in 1999, financed at 14% and was used by the purchaser only twice in 5 years.

I do feel a bit sorry for the sellers who get into Timeshares without fully comprehending the financial consequences.  Timesharing industry truly deserves it's bad reputation from the general public, because of the way it markets it's products to buyers.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 8, 2007)

eugeneleemd said:


> so called a sales rep and found out its for the new north property, whew. now that i have 2 resales, which property is the cheapest developer in order to requalify later on (for elite status, don't plan on ever using as starpoints) and how much do they run?



Glad to hear.  You will have to work out the SO numbers for 5* Elite, but you would have to requal both of your resales - with SVO purchases.  Duke claims to have done a 2:1 requal deal, but when pressed as to how and how much - silence.

I worked out these numbers for us - just to get to 4* - and it didn't work out - we'd be better off buying 81K SOs resale.  One of the resons to become Elite is to get value from your SPs - if yu don'e intend to use them - why bother?

btw, now that you have used TUG - you should consider the cheap $15 to become a member.


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## Negma (Mar 8, 2007)

*another way*

There is another way, one that we just did. First, what I am about to tell you we considered a luxury decision. Second, since we did this just to get to 5*, SVO may have treated us differently since we were 4* to begin with. We needed (wanted) 123850 Options to get there. In looking at the "duke" model he got 121000 and that would have left us short (see his sticky).

We called SVO and the alternative was buy 3br VV for 38K -139000 Options(not going to happen), then I mentioned "resale".

It turns out SVO does sell resale (you have to ask), focusing mostly on Vistana Resort. After several calls and e-mails we were told we could buy 2 VR Cascades resale and they would let us requalify them and we could use them as any other options, convert them (yes I know...), and have them count toward 5*.

We bought two 2br VR Cascades for 8.5 each- worth 67100/ea or 134200 total options. With closing 18K. They faxed me the contract details and for 599 each requalified and we are now 5* and platinum. The customer service was excellent. On the phone they did all the computer work. Same day we had our 5* in the system and platinum on the SPG site, very cool. The MF's were already paid for in 2007 so we have the options to use this year (probably weekends at MH's).

I am willing to give anyone the sales reps name as her service was great, and it played out just as she said it would. This whole process took about 4 weeks. You can buy the resort cheaper, but we did not have to buy reasle independently and then buy a new developer unit and then requal. The only downside is the MF's will be a little higher that we would have liked, but overall it met our needs.

I do not know if they will do this for just anyone, but it worked for us. One last note, the gentleman at SVO owner services told me he regularly reads this site (thanks for your help) and spends a fair amount of time talking to folks that do not understand the process. Hope this helps.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 9, 2007)

Negma said:


> There is another way, one that we just did. First, what I am about to tell you we considered a luxury decision. Second, since we did this just to get to 5*, SVO may have treated us differently since we were 4* to begin with. We needed (wanted) 123850 Options to get there. In looking at the "duke" model he got 121000 and that would have left us short (see his sticky).
> 
> We called SVO and the alternative was buy 3br VV for 38K -139000 Options(not going to happen), then I mentioned "resale".
> 
> ...



Interesting - it can be confusing - I knew that SVO sold resale - and explored this route for information purposes (along with a few others) - but it comes down to (at this part of our lives/careers) that we only have 3 weeks of vacation, but maybe in 10 years or so (sooner hopefully).

You said you were 4* already - does this mean you bought 359K SOs from SVO?  A Direct Salesman said to us if we came up short SO-wise by a 1000 or so that he could get us there (this had to do with buying pre-construction Desert Willow).

I did read the requal posts and duke's experience - but still have an open question of how he requaled 2 weeks with a single week (if I had done my math correctly  

Anyway - someday maybe - when we have more vacation time - in the meantime (WKV-WSJ-WKORVx2... repeat)  We love our SVO TSs so far - WKV in 9 days!  Hopefully we won't get too poor of a villa location - it was only reserved in November during the purchase.


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## jerseygirl (Mar 9, 2007)

> still have an open question of how he requaled 2 weeks with a single week



Perhaps he bought an EOY, requalified one, and then exercised his option to buy the second half of the EOY, and requalified a second one.  They've offered me this option a couple of times.


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## Negma (Mar 9, 2007)

Most of the options were developer (discovered TUG too late). I would never advocate buying what you can not use. I am fortunate and have a lot of vacation (loyalty to a company does have some advantages). I also have 4 kids so it will get used.


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## LisaRex (Mar 10, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> I agree that there are certain aspects of WKORV-N than WKORV that are better.  However, there are things about WKORV that may be better for some.  I would hold up the OF Deluxe unit in comparison to the OF at WKORV-N. The MFs are about the same, but ours is bigger, is a true OF, it has a *much *larger lanai (both sides) - has large windows on the side (with great light and a panaromic view)
> [this is a big minus at WKORV-N - IMO - they could have put large windows on the sides of the buildings - especially with the angled units, but for some reason choose not to.



This concerns me because I am in the process of buying an OF unit at WKORV-N ($50k).  I bought OF because I wanted to killer view.  For the life of me I cannot find a drawing which depicts the actual buildings so I have no idea what I'm getting.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 10, 2007)

LisaRex said:


> This concerns me because I am in the process of buying an OF unit at WKORV-N ($50k).  I bought OF because I wanted to killer view.  For the life of me I cannot find a drawing which depicts the actual buildings so I have no idea what I'm getting.



You should be able to see the unit layout  and photos on SVO website at
http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/resorts/index.jsp#HI

also - there are construction updates... somewhere.

Plus - DeniseL took photos and had a link to them a while back.  That was when I noticed that they put small windows - instead of large one.  You can see these (or lack of) in the artist rendoring on the SVO website.

The 'OF' at WKORV-N are angled, but the views should be fine as long as you are on floors 3-6.  Someone hear says Floor 1 room exit right onto the grounds - I can understand why this would be good for some folks.  I didn't see these when we looked at the construction site in November, but weren't really looking.

Overall - considering you paid a ~$20 premium (like us) over OV resale to get OF because it was important to you - you should be very happy.  The price is less than what they are selling OV, and just a bit more than IV/GV (which I hear is sold out).


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## LisaRex (Mar 16, 2007)

After hours of searching, I was finally able to come up with a drawing of  WKORV-N.  For anyone who is interested, the link is below.  You'll have to scroll down a bit. 

http://www.hotelsmag.com/archives/2005/07/construction-news.asp


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