# Did we get hosed?



## stucandu (Jan 13, 2012)

Hello, 
First post for me. I'm posting this on the Buy, Sell and Rent Forum as well as the Mexico Forum.

I read several posts trying to find information that would help me to understand whether I got a decent deal on the recent timeshare that my wife and I purchased from Vida Vacations after a sales presentation at the Mayan Palace in Nuevo Vallarta, Mexico. I figured it would be easier just to ask and initiate some response. 
Basically we want to know if we got a decent deal or whether we were totally hoodwinked. Here it is, as best I understand it: 

I don't want to divulge the exact price we paid, but after the closing cost of $2,995 and IVA tax of $2,730 our membership total came in at somewhat below $20,000, which includes one registered week, 2 grand vacation weeks, 1 SFX Vida week and an HSI Breakaway week (maybe 5 of these, not sure) each year. This is a 'Red' time classification (all year except Christmas, New Years, Easter and Holy week) and is for a Mayan Palace Regency Suite (1 Bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, living room).  Our usage fee is currently $629, which we have to pay for the registered week for the first five years whether we use it or not. The other weeks are electives and we can rent out any weeks we like (apparantly for $1600 or more). We have all Member benefits (the Premium Package?) including 50% off golf green fees. It also includes a 2 year RCI membership and 1 year HSI membership as well as the SFX Vida week. 
The membership is for 25 years, renewable up to 100 years.The renewal fee is equal to 6 current usage fees.  After 5 years there is a Renovation Fee equal to 2 current usage fees. 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around what I've gotten us into on this by reading through the contract, etc. but it's tricky to understand so any input will be helpful. 
Thanks


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## ampaholic (Jan 13, 2012)

I simply can't imagine you couldn't buy a (much) cheaper resale unit and trade into this place - but what do I know.

I bought all 7 of my timeshares for under $250 - I have been to many wonderful vacation destinations and I don't expect to spend $20K over the next *10 years* of vacationing.


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## timeos2 (Jan 13, 2012)

If you are within the 5 (? - hopefully someone can confirm or correct) day rescind period allowed in Mexico - DO IT NOW!  You have been hosed to put it gently.  No timeshares are worth more than $5000 and most Mexican timeshares today are virtually worthless as in you can have your choice for free or even be paid to take one.  Really.  

Mexican timeshares in particular have a nasty reputation for delivering far less than you think you purchased. and worse they are easy to obtain through trade or rent at pricing way below what they made you pay. 

Get out if you can or you will deeply regret this.  Good luck.


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## falmouth3 (Jan 13, 2012)

If you can't rescind, learn to use it to your best advantage.  If you can still rescind - do it NOW and ask questions later.


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## stucandu (Jan 13, 2012)

Ok, way past the rescind day, so have to make the best of it. 
Thing is, I think there's a lot of different ways to determine how much is paid for a timeshare, ie, $250 per timeshare, but what does that include? 
I crunched the numbers a bit and the membership, over 25 years , results in a premium of $265 over the usage fee (currently $629) so that the 3 weeks we have cost us about $900/ea. If we rent out 2 of those weeks for $1350/week we recoup $900, which pays for the 1 week that we would regularly want to use each year. 
Is this rosey thinking or realistic?


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## capjak (Jan 13, 2012)

Read your documents and see if you can still rescind the deal.


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## stucandu (Jan 13, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> No timeshares are worth more than $5000 and most Mexican timeshares today are virtually worthless as in you can have your choice for free or even be paid to take one.



They initially pitched 3 packages, the lowest priced one was $20,000, then $33,000 and the top one was $45,000 or close to it as memory recalls. 
The only difference in the packages was the amount of benefits included. 
We got the same benefits as in the top package, (ie 50% off golf rack rate) and the other exchange programs. 
Anyway, that was the initial pitch. We weren't going to go for it till they came in with this pitch which basically gave us the top package for less than the lowest price. Seemed too good to pass on and we signed. We knew nothing about timeshares and got taken in on an impulse buy.  
As I stated, I think we can still have a good outcome on this as long as we can rent out those extra weeks for a good price, which doesn't seem too unrealistic. 
Or is it?


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## ausman (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> As I stated, I think we can still have a good outcome on this as long as we can rent out those extra weeks for a good price, which doesn't seem too unrealistic.
> Or is it?



More bad news will be coming.

Many here, myself included have made purchases to be regretted, but have made additional timeshare purchases after. The product is good, just not from some sources. 

Putting it in perspective the price paid, is a price of a used car that was bad. 

The lesson to be learned is to educate yourself beforehand, applies to timeshares and used cars.


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## ampaholic (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Ok, way past the rescind day, so have to make the best of it.
> Thing is, I think there's a lot of different ways to determine how much is paid for a timeshare, ie, $250 per timeshare, but what does that include?
> I crunched the numbers a bit and the membership, over 25 years , results in a premium of $265 over the usage fee (currently $629) so that the 3 weeks we have cost us about $900/ea. If we rent out 2 of those weeks for $1350/week we recoup $900, which pays for the 1 week that we would regularly want to use each year.
> Is this rosey thinking or realistic?



I don't know where to start:

I paid less than $250 for all seven - not each. I get between 8 and 15 weeks of vacation per year (depending on specific choices I make) - my mf's are $2450 per year for all seven.

So in 25 years I can expect about 300 weeks of vacation for about 60 grand plus 10 grand (estimated) in exchange fees = 70 grand for 300 weeks of vacation. For the most part I can reserve at any of about 4200 resorts worldwide (subject to availability of course)

It sounds like you are getting 3 weeks per year (max) for $900 each.

So $20,000 purchase plus 45,000 in Mf's over 25 years = 65 grand for 75 weeks of vacation.

That's a lot of very nice time in the sun - just lay back and enjoy


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## MuranoJo (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> The other weeks are electives and we can rent out any weeks we like (apparantly for $1600 or more).



It will be very unlikely you'll be able to rent at that price--that was a typical salesperson's lie. You may get lucky and be able to rent for the maintenance fee.  The only exception would be if you happen to have purchased the holiday weeks.

As previously stated, the product is good--but their sales process is another story.


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## am1 (Jan 14, 2012)

It will be impossible to rent anywhere close to that amount.  Were you staying at the resort?  If so how much were you paying for the week? 

No one here cares about the exact price you paid.  But somewhat below $20k means you did not get hosed for as much as others.  

You are best to try to make the most of it like others have said here.


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## mikenk (Jan 14, 2012)

Stucando,

The bad news; you definitely paid too much. Anybody that buys a timeshare anywhere retail is paying too much. Don't beat yourself up over it, many people   buy retail based on the promises of the sales people. 

The good news; you will have a great time vacationing at the resorts as they are extremely well maintained, continuously improved, and great fun. A few years ago in Cabo, I was talking with a number of folks during happy hour. All had paid retail, knew they paid too much, but didn't care as they were consistently enjoying the resorts.

Here is some other good news: If I read your post correctly, after 5 years, you will not have any mandatory maintenance fees; you will pay only if you use. You will discover that to be a great benefit and unique to the Mayan system. The reason timeshares are so cheap is people want out from under the relentless ongoing maintenance fees whether you use the resort or not; it is generally not the original cost. Make sure that benefit is clearly stated in your contract.

Mike


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## ronparise (Jan 14, 2012)

The very fact that you askd the question  "Did we get hosed?" tells me you already know the answer. Otherwise your post would have been titled something like..: "look at this great deal"


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## stucandu (Jan 14, 2012)

mikenk said:


> Stucando,
> 
> If I read your post correctly, after 5 years, you will not have any mandatory maintenance fees; you will pay only if you use. You will discover that to be a great benefit and unique to the Mayan system. The reason timeshares are so cheap is people want out from under the relentless ongoing maintenance fees whether you use the resort or not; it is generally not the original cost. Make sure that benefit is clearly stated in your contract.
> 
> Mike



Yes, this is indeed the case, although we do have to pay a renovation fee equal to 2 usage fees (mf's ?) every 5 years (about $1260 @ current rates). 
Taking this into account, as well as financing fees, etc. I calculate that the 3 annual weeks cost us $915/ea for a total of $68,625 plus $5200 for reno fees for $73,825. 
If we are able to rent out 2 weeks/yr for only the usage fee, that gives us $31,500 and a balance of $42,325, meaning we pay $1693/yr for our one week (42,325/25). 
I would put this as the worst cast scenario. I would hope that realistically we can rent the weeks out at $900 to $1200/ea. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me. 
At the low end - $900, we would end up paying about $1,200 for our week/yr. At $1200 = $600/yr. And at the $1650 that was pitched us, then our weeks would be free and we'd profit about $7500.  
So obviously, the higher we can rent the additional weeks out for, the better off we are. 
I guess only time will show us what we'll get, but until then I'm going to hold on to the hope that we can at least get $900/week. Anything less and I would feel that we did get soaked. 
Thanks for all the input.


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## stucandu (Jan 14, 2012)

am1 said:


> It will be impossible to rent anywhere close to that amount.  Were you staying at the resort?  If so how much were you paying for the week?


No, we didn't stay at the resort, but we definitely will next year.  

Not quite sure why you state that it's impossible. Only time will tell. 
In my previous post I stated a range of rentals, with the $900 -$1200/wk being what I think is not unreasonable. Bear in mind that this is a pretty sumptuous resort and includes the 50% golf discount to boot. (They have 5 Nicklaus designed courses on the go, I think 2 are complete.) 
As Mikenk noted, this is not a low end, run down resort by any means. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we can command even higher amounts, but I don't think the range above is unreasonable at all. That's only $150 -$200/night for a pretty posh pad.


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## Asl18940 (Jan 14, 2012)

THe prices are so variable for the Vida packages it's very hard to evaluate.  Frankly, the resorts are spectacular do I wouldn't stress over this.  Your trading value into other resort systems through RCI or SFX (which I prefer) is very high.  What you may want to research is how you can use your current membership in the Mayan Palace, which is the lower end of the Vida spectrum, to get into a Grand Mayan or Grand Bliss membership.  The next time you're down there, they'll definitely be trying to sell you that.  So do some research on redweek or sellmytimesharenow or ebay (though the latter is the least reliable) to get a feel for the pricing, and you may be able to do better next time.  The bottomline is that we are members of the Grand Luxxe, and frankly love vacationing at the Vida resorts.


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## DeniseM (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Not quite sure why you state that it's impossible. Only time will tell.
> In my previous post I stated a range of rentals, with the $900 -$1200/wk being what I think is not unreasonable. Bear in mind that this is a pretty sumptuous resort and includes the 50% golf discount to boot. (They have 5 Nicklaus designed courses on the go, I think 2 are complete.)
> As Mikenk noted, this is not a low end, run down resort by any means. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we can command even higher amounts, but I don't think the range above is unreasonable at all. That's only $150 -$200/night for a pretty posh pad.



The reason it is going to be difficult is that the market is flooded with cheap rentals in Mexico, and there is far more supply than demand.  Because of various issues in Mexico, many people are afraid or uninterested in traveling there.

Telling the buyer that they can make a profit by renting their new timeshare is a common ploy used by timeshare sales people.  They can get people to spend more with this scheme, because they make people believe that it will be a money maker.


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## stucandu (Jan 14, 2012)

I'm sure some of what you say is true. But are the cheap rentals also cheap places? I think you nearly always get what you pay for.  I'm not sure how much Mexico's internal problems, which take place far away from most resorts, affect the demand side for higher end units such as this one. It may actually increase due to the security of such places.
 Also, there is a very high demand among Mexican Nationals for places during their vacation times, which are usually in the other seasons that  Northeners prefer to vacation in. It's not like after March break there's no more demand for places.


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## DeniseM (Jan 14, 2012)

You can get very cheap rentals at the top resorts, because the rental market is so depressed.  There is far more supply than demand.  When there is more supply than demand, rental prices get lower and lower.

Right here in our classifieds, there are 150 Ads for rentals in Mexico at the top resorts for 1¢ to $700 per week.  Yes - starting at 1¢ - that's not a typo.  http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplac...roomsMin=&BathroomsMax=&SleepsMin=&SleepsMax=


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## beach_bumz (Jan 14, 2012)

Stucandu - start advertising your units for rent now. List on as many sites as possible (check out the recommended sites here on TUG) and look at what others are charging so you're competitive. 

You can advertise on Craigslist too, even Mexico cities on Craigslist. 

Word of mouth helps too. We've rented before to friends of friends, friends of family, etc. Much easier than dealing with strangers over the internet. 

But get on it ASAP because it's often a long frustrating process of waiting...and waiting....and waiting some more.

Good luck!

FWIW, we LOVE the resorts. Don't own there, but we trade into them pretty regularly through SFX. If nothing else, you will have to stay there 3 weeks a year.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 14, 2012)

beach_bumz said:


> Stucandu - start advertising your units for rent now. List on as many sites as possible (check out the recommended sites here on TUG) and look at what others are charging so you're competitive.


Good advice.  If you plan to rent regularly as a way to offset cost, you need to approach it like a business.  One of the key items is building a client base of people who want to rent from you and will refer others to you.

From the standpoint of the renter - they have various options that are available to them.  Everything else being equal, they will rent from a reliable, known entity instead of some unknown person on the internet.  So when you start out you are that unknown renter. and the only way you can generate traffic is by having low rental rates.  Often that means taking a loss as you get things set up.  

As your operation gets going and you develop reliability you can start to charge more.  But note that you will almost always have to be signficanlty cheaper than simply renting from the resort - because the resort will always be more convenient, more well-known, and offer greater flexibility and variety in units and check-in dates.  Also the resort will probably be able to offer a cancellation policy that you would not reasonably be able to match.


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## DeniseM (Jan 14, 2012)

Right now, a lot of people are trying to rent their timeshares, so you want to price your week competitively, market it well, and make sure you have a lot of traffic - because you have a lot of competition.  I personally use these cheap or free websites to post my Ads:

TUG Timeshare Marketplace - http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/ 
1 year Membership - $15
Ads - free up to 25 

www.craigslist.org (free)

www.redweek.com
Membership - $14.99 for 12 months
Timeshare Rental Ads - $24.99/ea for 6 Months
Timeshare Resale Ads - $59.99/ea for 12 Months

www.myresortnetwork.com
Membership - free
Timeshare Rental Ads - $19.95 ($24.95 - floating weeks)
Timeshare Resale Ads - $34.95

There is also a list of resale websites at the top of the Buying, Selling, Renting, board that you may want to take a look at.

On Craigslist, you need to create a Craigslist Acct.,  and then you can just use the "renew" function, to renew your Ad every 3 days which will bring it to the top of the listings. Eventually (30 days?)  your Ad will expire, and then you will have to create a new one.

You are going to have to be brutally honest about what your weeks will rent for.  Forget what the sales person said, and forget what the resort is asking.  You need to take a hard look at the Comps and price yours at the bottom, if you have any hope of renting.  

I have owners tell me all the time that "they think" their timeshare is worth a lot more than the going rate and they just can't bring themselves to lower the price.  Then they are sorely disappointed when their timeshare doesn't rent.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> They initially pitched 3 packages, the lowest priced one was $20,000, then $33,000 and the top one was $45,000 or close to it as memory recalls.
> The only difference in the packages was the amount of benefits included.
> We got the same benefits as in the top package, (ie 50% off golf rack rate) and the other exchange programs.
> Anyway, that was the initial pitch. We weren't going to go for it till they came in with this pitch which basically gave us the top package for less than the lowest price. Seemed too good to pass on and we signed. We knew nothing about timeshares and got taken in on an impulse buy.
> ...



Of course you can have a GREAT result from this. Just not as good as it could have been. I have bought from developers twice before learning better. And I am happy with all of my purchases. 

elaine


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## stucandu (Jan 14, 2012)

Ok, this is certainly eye opening.
The only weeks I'm obligated to pay for are the 1 registered week  for the first 5 years. The other weeks are optional. Thus it doesn't make any sense to me to rent at any less than the usage fee ($629) as I have to pay this amount anyway, so why take a loss. 
To make it worthwhile, I think I'd need to get $750 minimum. From the sounds of it, that may not be too easy.
On top of this, I checked the terms and if I want to rent out the weeks, I have to pay the usage fees by Jan.31 of the year I'm renting them. Well this is a nice Catch 22. What if I don't rent them, or for less than the UF? THen I lose, maybe a lot. 
I'm not sure how they would know I'm renting them, except I guess when the guest checks in, although we could just say that they are friends that we are loaning the place to. How are they going to prove otherwise?
One other thing is that the sales guy gave us a list of rental agencies: Continental Connections; Resort Rentals; Global Marketing Systems; Custom Vacations Mexico; and Destinations International, who all charge a one time fee ranging from $275 to $399 with Destinations International being the only one that charges a commision as well (10%). Does anyone have any experience dealing with these companies?
Thanks to all for your input, cautions and encouragement. Wish I'd known you before signing, but it's spilt milk now.


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## Cheryl20772 (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> I'm not sure how they would know I'm renting them, except I guess when the guest checks in, although we could just say that they are friends that we are loaning the place to. How are they going to prove otherwise?


This is a detail not to be ignored.  If you are not personally staying in the unit, the resort may require a guest certificate, which may (or may not) have a fee attached.  They will most likely require guests to show photo ID when registering; so they do know who is staying there.


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## DeniseM (Jan 14, 2012)

Never pay a high upfront fee to list your timeshare - reputable brokers charge a commission out of the proceeds.  The upfront fee companies make all their money upfront, so they don't care if they rent your timeshare or not.

If you call some of those companies, they are going to tell you they can rent it for far more than the current market, pocket your upfront fee, and that's the last you will hear from them.  It is a common scam.

AND - Listing it with an agent will not change the realities of the market - the most profitable way is to do it yourself.


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## stucandu (Jan 14, 2012)

Yes, I do have to supply a letter to any guest/renters. But how will the resort know the difference if they are indicated as guests. They need not know and I don't see any problem in them not knowing. This way I can rent out the rooms without having to pay the usage fee upfront. I'm not sure this is unethical or not. Comments?


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## DeniseM (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Yes, I do have to supply a letter to any guest/renters. But how will the resort know the difference if they are indicated as guests. They need not know and I don't see any problem in them not knowing. This way I can rent out the rooms without having to pay the usage fee upfront. I'm not sure this is unethical or not. Comments?



Most renters want to be able to call the resort and confirm their reservation, so you will probably have to provide a guest certificate to them and go Legit.  Shady deals make renters nervous.


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## easyrider (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Yes, I do have to supply a letter to any guest/renters. But how will the resort know the difference if they are indicated as guests. They need not know and I don't see any problem in them not knowing. This way I can rent out the rooms without having to pay the usage fee upfront. I'm not sure this is unethical or not. Comments?



We always call the resort to comfirm TS weeks we rented and want to see our name on the confimation for that week in writing.

We alway furnish a resort confirmation and use a rental agreement when we rent a TS week. Everything is in writing either way. The resort TS's that we own will only let us reserve if we pay the MF for that week. We also are required to pay for a guest certificate.


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## pittle (Jan 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Ok, this is certainly eye opening.
> The only weeks I'm obligated to pay for are the 1 registered week  for the first 5 years. The other weeks are optional. Thus it doesn't make any sense to me to rent at any less than the usage fee ($629) as I have to pay this amount anyway, so why take a loss.
> To make it worthwhile, I think I'd need to get $750 minimum. From the sounds of it, that may not be too easy.
> On top of this, I checked the terms and if I want to rent out the weeks, I have to pay the usage fees by Jan.31 of the year I'm renting them. Well this is a nice Catch 22. What if I don't rent them, or for less than the UF? THen I lose, maybe a lot.
> ...



OK - I have been watching this thread and not jumping in, but now that you are mentioning the places that Grupo Mayan suggested, I have to respond. We own a total of 6 Grupo Mayan weeks. *Do not under any circumstance use these companies!!!* *When we first bought, we tried using one of their companies and paid first - big mistake!*  They never rented our place but did finally make an exchange for us to another place not nearly as nice as our Mayan Palace.  The only people that we have ever rented our units to are friends who were willing to pay our maintenance fees.  We then made reservations and gave them a letter that they were our guests (you can do the same with renters).  We did not try to recoup more than our maintenance fees.  Not many people ever rent their places for the prices that the salesmen tell you that you can get.

I have bought directly from Grupo Mayan and on the secondary market.  We have also upgraded through Grupo Mayan.  I will tell you that the units I bought on eBay have the same benefits as do the ones I bought from Grupo Mayan.  Our MP weeks can be transferred (sold) for the cost of 1 maintenance fee and our renovation fees every 5 years is equal to 1 maintenance fee.  Our Grand Mayan weeks has the 1 m/f every 5 year reno fee and the cost to transfer (sell) is 5 m/f.   

We absolutley love the resorts and now that I know what the new terms are, we will happily keep what we have!!!  Thanks for sharing and welcome to TUG!


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## am1 (Jan 15, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Never pay a high upfront fee to list your timeshare - reputable brokers charge a commission out of the proceeds.  The upfront fee companies make all their money upfront, so they don't care if they rent your timeshare or not.
> 
> If you call some of those companies, they are going to tell you they can rent it for far more than the current market, pocket your upfront fee, and that's the last you will hear from them.  It is a common scam.
> 
> AND - Listing it with an agent will not change the realities of the market - the most profitable way is to do it yourself.



This is very good advice for the OP.  The OP sounds like a good candidate to be taken advantage of again with the promise of renting for big money.  

People need to realize the amount of work that goes into renting timeshares.


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## pjrose (Jan 16, 2012)

*Profeco?*

Nobody has mentioned Profeco - can't the OP use them to try to get the purchase cancelled even beyond the five days, if there is any evidence of fraud or promises that weren't kept?
???


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## mikenk (Jan 16, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Nobody has mentioned Profeco - can't the OP use them to try to get the purchase cancelled even beyond the five days, if there is any evidence of fraud or promises that weren't kept?
> ???



And on what grounds? The OP bought a timeshare retail that he (or she) could have gotten much cheaper resale; he was misled that he could rent out for high prices. The same game is being played out everyday all over Mexico (and the USA). Profeco (and USA courts) would be really busy if that alone were grounds for cancellation. 

My bet is that all the words in the contract are being adhered to.

Mike


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## fishingguy (Jan 16, 2012)

*read and understand before signing!*

mikenk makes a good point, about what was probably in the contract.

The OP wrote:


> ...I'm still trying to wrap my head around what I've gotten us into on this by reading through the contract, etc. but it's tricky to understand so any input will be helpful.



An all to familiar statement and after-the-fact.  Something that should have been done before anything was signed.

Proving mis-representation or fraud is extremely difficult to do, when the contract likely includes a statement that it supersedes anything you may have been told.


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## timeos2 (Jan 16, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Yes, this is indeed the case, although we do have to pay a renovation fee equal to 2 usage fees (mf's ?) every 5 years (about $1260 @ current rates).
> Taking this into account, as well as financing fees, etc. I calculate that the 3 annual weeks cost us $915/ea for a total of $68,625 plus $5200 for reno fees for $73,825.
> If we are able to rent out 2 weeks/yr for only the usage fee, that gives us $31,500 and a balance of $42,325, meaning we pay $1693/yr for our one week (42,325/25).
> I would put this as the worst cast scenario. I would hope that realistically we can rent the weeks out at $900 to $1200/ea. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
> ...


 
Sadly the simple fact is your price is, by your own numbers, $68,000 or $1700/week for something that, if you even wanted that amount, would likely cost under $10,000 wit no upfront costs. Yes, to answer your original inquiry, you were "hosed". Doing the convoluted math to seemingly justify it is just understandably making yourself feel better. These weeks do not rent regularly for $1300 - more like $500 or much less if at all. 

Sorry. If you can't get out make the best use you can or stop paying. Good luck.


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## stucandu (Jan 16, 2012)

I just can't understand why anyone would rent their weeks for less than what the usage fee is, unless it's a mandatory UF and they are trying to recover some money. But for the optional weeks, makes no sense at all. 

As of this point, my wife and I are considering possibly terminating and taking the loss of the deposit. An expensive lesson. 

The contract states quite clearly and I quote:
"Member represents and warrants that he is not acquiring these vacation interval lodging rights and services for any rental, resale, investment or commercial purpose, and that he has not received, from any salesperson or any other source, any information or inducement regarding rentals, resales, or investment value that was relied upon or in any way influenced Member's decision to enter into this Contract" 

It then goes on to say that it's okay to rent units out as a private transaction and to pay by Jan.31 any usage fees for weeks you're planning to rent out during that year (which I find completely unreasonable, why do they need the fee paid until you actually make the reservation, what happens if you don't find a renter at all, you've lost the (once) optional fee, probably forever)

Anyway, we _most definitely _did receive from our salesperson, information and inducements that we could rent and clear $1000/wk. This was loud and clear, he even made a diagram to graphically explain it. And this _most certainly _played a huge role in our decision to go ahead. After we quickly crunched some #'s it looked like we could almost get our week for free if we rented.

Yeah, we got hosed. And it's really soaking in now...


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## am1 (Jan 16, 2012)

The problem is you signed a contact that included the statement that you were not buying to rent.  

So why would the lack of rentability of your weeks and what the sales person told you about renting affect your decision.


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## pittle (Jan 16, 2012)

Oh the boxes with the green pens showing how much you will get!  Any of us who bought from them know about those!

Since you do not have to pay for those extra weeks, just use what you have - 1 week each year in a great resort.  Forget about those extra weeks and ideas of renting for a profit.  Occasionally, you may want a 2nd week for yourselves - we love to go at lesast 2 weeks and a 3 week vacation  is better.  Just check to see if those extra weeks can be used in February and March.  The "extra" weeks we have are called Vacation Fair (VF) and cannot be used in February or March.  We have been able to use one the last week of January and then our regular week in February.  Also, double check how far out you can reserve those.  It generally is not as far out as your registered week.  We only pay for our VF weeks when we make a reservation.

Also remember that when you decide to exchange to go another place, you have to pay an exchange fee of about $200.  There is also a membership fee for RCI & HSI - another $100 per year for each that you need to factor in.

Just enjoy and know that you have a great product, even though you paid too much, but you are not the only one - there are thousands of us who bought their spiel.  

Now that you have "paid your dues", you can watch the secondary market and find a 2-bedroom for about $2450 including closing costs and transfer fees.  Then you can average out the cost of what you have - at least that is what we did! It does not minimalize what you paid, but it made us feel better about how much we had invested with them for extra time.


----------



## aliikai2 (Jan 16, 2012)

*Did you pay retail? Yes, is that too much??*

You might want to contact 

grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com

and explain how you feel that you were lied to and you would like to unwind this purchase. They will be the ones that may be able to help.

Best of luck, 

Greg



stucandu said:


> I just can't understand why anyone would rent their weeks for less than what the usage fee is, unless it's a mandatory UF and they are trying to recover some money. But for the optional weeks, makes no sense at all.
> 
> As of this point, my wife and I are considering possibly terminating and taking the loss of the deposit. An expensive lesson.
> 
> ...


----------



## stucandu (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks for this, I have sent an email protesting the sales tactics used and how greatly they persuaded our decision. 
I'll let you know how things go.

Thanks to all for your input.


----------



## pjrose (Jan 17, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Nobody has mentioned Profeco - can't the OP use them to try to get the purchase cancelled even beyond the five days, if there is any evidence of fraud or promises that weren't kept?
> ???





mikenk said:


> And on what grounds? The OP bought a timeshare retail that he (or she) could have gotten much cheaper resale; he was misled that he could rent out for high prices. The same game is being played out everyday all over Mexico (and the USA). Profeco (and USA courts) would be really busy if that alone were grounds for cancellation.
> 
> My bet is that all the words in the contract are being adhered to.
> 
> Mike



I wasn't sure what Profeco did....I thought they arbitrated disputes where the buyer claimed fraud or misleading tactics, but from your response I guess they only handle the ones where the written contract is not honored?


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## max55 (Jan 18, 2012)

*ripped off or not?*

Stu,I would not buy a timeshare to rent.
     Even if they told you that it was your option to rent,(as it is),you buy a timeshare to use.
As far as your purchase,you did well in finding a  great resort chain, with many options.
Other resorts are small,often crappy,in more ways then one.
Quit beating yourself up because others purchased resale.

Its about getting in as many 7 star vacations as you can, before you die.You will not have a bad vacation EVER again!
.

USE AND ENJOY,knowing that what others have ,really does not compare!~


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## stucandu (Jan 19, 2012)

Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare 

Anyway, I haven't heard anything back from that grupomayanblog and don't expect to. Not sure that is the best channel. 

Is there any other way to fight back?


----------



## fishingguy (Jan 19, 2012)

> Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare



Exact same thing went through my mind when I saw that.


----------



## pjrose (Jan 19, 2012)

fishingguy said:


> Exact same thing went through my mind when I saw that.



Yep, great minds and all that


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## mikenk (Jan 19, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare
> 
> Anyway, I haven't heard anything back from that grupomayanblog and don't expect to. Not sure that is the best channel.
> 
> Is there any other way to fight back?



Probably not to get your money back. Do remember that most people on TUG also learned the hard way about resale and made their initial purchase retail. 

Shoot, I made a stupid investment last year and lost more than 20K and had no fun in the process. Sometime, you just have to move on.

We go to the mayan resorts twice a year and always have a great time. The more you use it, the more your 20K investment will be amortized. At some point, you will learn to appreciate that after 5 years, you will have no more obligatory MF unless you use; i don't know about your contract, but nowadays , people buying resale don't get those perks.

Mike


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## AwayWeGo (Jan 19, 2012)

*Nothing That The Timeshare Companies Sell At Full Freight Is Worth The Money.*




max55 said:


> Quit beating yourself up because others purchased resale.


True. 

Once the purchase is final, then you own it & the best idea going forward is enjoying it & having fun with it. 

No point in crying over spilt milk. 

However, also going forward, the most sensible idea about acquiring timeshares is buying resale, which saves thousands of dollars for exactly the same thing as full freight, or the equivalent, or something even better. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## aliikai2 (Jan 19, 2012)

*I understand you are wound up, BUT*

You are asking to be released from a binding contract that you signed.
You need to calm down and allow the process that Vida has in place to work for you.
It has only been a couple of days since I gave you their email address, a much shorter time that you were given to read and understand the contract.

Greg



stucandu said:


> Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare
> 
> Anyway, I haven't heard anything back from that grupomayanblog and don't expect to. Not sure that is the best channel.
> 
> Is there any other way to fight back?


----------



## mikenk (Jan 19, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Have to wonder about someone who registers to post 1 message that is pro-retail timeshare
> 
> Anyway, I haven't heard anything back from that grupomayanblog and don't expect to. Not sure that is the best channel.
> 
> Is there any other way to fight back?



So why are you guys beating up on Max? Everyone had their first post. He didn't recommend buying retail; he said to quit crying over spilt milk. I agree with his comments.

Admittedly, the mayan contracted sales force lie well and aggressively; however, the resorts are excellent with great service. Instead of being mad, go enjoy your purchase; Hell, you paid a lot for it - better use it.

In five years, you will forget what you paid; you will remember the great vacations. You will also relish the fact that you only pay when you use.

Mike


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 19, 2012)

max55 said:


> Stu,I would not buy a timeshare to rent.
> Even if they told you that it was your option to rent,(as it is),you buy a timeshare to use.
> As far as your purchase,you did well in finding a  great resort chain, with many options.
> Other resorts are small,often crappy,in more ways then one.
> ...



Take a close look folks....

I am 99% sure that this is not "Max's" first post or first user name.  In fact I think it's her 5th user name.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 19, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Take a close look folks....
> 
> I am 99% sure that this is not "Max's" first post or first user name.  In fact I think it's her 5th user name.



Sighhhhhhhh.


----------



## stucandu (Jan 19, 2012)

aliikai2 said:


> You are asking to be released from a binding contract that you signed.
> You need to calm down and allow the process that Vida has in place to work for you.
> It has only been a couple of days since I gave you their email address, a much shorter time that you were given to read and understand the contract.
> 
> Greg



Sorry if I may have sounded ungrateful, and you're right, I need to chill a bit. After doing several number crunching exercises, they all seem to say that we're in for a few years of added monthly payments, especially at a time when my wife and I were planning to buy our first house and start a family. We lost sight of that in the luxury of the moment and did something we now consider very foolish and costly. Only by the sales pitch to rent out weeks and discount our payments did this investment sound reasonable and not so financially irresponsible. Now I feel very irresponsible and am starting to loathe the gullibility that I gave in to. Truth is that the idea of cutting our losses and just terminating the contract seems to make better financial sense. Short term pain but at least not long term hardship. 
Thanks


----------



## MuranoJo (Jan 20, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Take a close look folks....
> 
> I am 99% sure that this is not "Max's" first post or first user name.  In fact I think it's her 5th user name.



It's always good to see old friends again.  :rofl:


----------



## aliikai2 (Jan 20, 2012)

*No It can't Be*

And after Sally 13 made such a point of never coming back 
And really that is true, she didn't she sent Max   

Greg


DeniseM said:


> Take a close look folks....
> 
> I am 99% sure that this is not "Max's" first post or first user name.  In fact I think it's her 5th user name.


----------



## stucandu (Jan 20, 2012)

Am I missing something?


----------



## Passepartout (Jan 20, 2012)

Ahhh, reunions can be such fun! Or not. Betcha she's baaaack!

Jim


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## easyrider (Jan 20, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Sorry if I may have sounded ungrateful, and you're right, I need to chill a bit. After doing several number crunching exercises, they all seem to say that we're in for a few years of added monthly payments, especially at a time when my wife and I were planning to buy our first house and start a family. We lost sight of that in the luxury of the moment and did something we now consider very foolish and costly. Only by the sales pitch to rent out weeks and discount our payments did this investment sound reasonable and not so financially irresponsible. Now I feel very irresponsible and am starting to loathe the gullibility that I gave in to. Truth is that the idea of cutting our losses and just terminating the contract seems to make better financial sense. Short term pain but at least not long term hardship.
> Thanks



That is too bad but may be your best choice. Don't beat yourself up, it seems like renting these things out would work, especially when you see the Expedia price per night. 
Good Luck
Bill


----------



## Gophesjo (Jan 20, 2012)

My first interval ownership purchase was a full-freight camp ground membership in California in the 80's.  After a couple of years I quit paying and it really didn't hurt me too badly.  Yes, I got some letters and a couple of phone calls, but no judgments, liens or garnishments.  I also don't recall it hurting my credit rating that much.

That all said, please don't take this as someone encouraging you (or anyone) not to honor their contractual obligations, especially in light of the fact that the collections business has changed significantly in the last 25 years.


----------



## Joan-OH (Jan 20, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Sorry if I may have sounded ungrateful, and you're right, I need to chill a bit. After doing several number crunching exercises, they all seem to say that we're in for a few years of added monthly payments, especially at a time when my wife and I were planning to buy our first house and start a family. We lost sight of that in the luxury of the moment and did something we now consider very foolish and costly. Only by the sales pitch to rent out weeks and discount our payments did this investment sound reasonable and not so financially irresponsible. Now I feel very irresponsible and am starting to loathe the gullibility that I gave in to. Truth is that the idea of cutting our losses and just terminating the contract seems to make better financial sense. Short term pain but at least not long term hardship.
> Thanks



If you are looking at buying a house in the near future, research how backing out of this contract will affect your credit score

Joan-OH


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## DeniseM (Jan 20, 2012)

easyrider said:


> That is too bad but may be your best choice. Don't beat yourself up, it seems like renting these things out would work, especially when you see the *Expedia price per night.*
> Good Luck
> Bill



Bill - I'm sorry, but this is bad advice.  A private owner CANNOT compete with corporate America on rental prices.  The rental market in Mexico is flat - sad truth.


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## stucandu (Jan 21, 2012)

Joan-OH said:


> If you are looking at buying a house in the near future, research how backing out of this contract will affect your credit score
> 
> Joan-OH


 
Good point Joan.
Painful point, but good point.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jan 21, 2012)

As a person who likes to play by the rules and thinks if exceptions are made they should be made for the polite respectful people who ask nicely and have a valid point and not the loudest a--oles who make the most noise; but Vida (at least when it was Mayan) reads these posts and it seems like Posters who post the LOUDEST and MOST OFTEN at as many places they can post about how they were deceived and LIED to and no one should ever do business or stay at such a disreputable place seem to magically come back post that there dispute has been settled and to delete as many post as they can and ask to ignore their rants about the "misunderstanding" with the company.  It seems like Vida has oiled the squeaky wheel in the past.  It may not work especially after seeing this post but if you feel you were deceived and mislead it certainly wouldn't hurt to warn others so they don't make the mistake you did.


----------



## Passepartout (Jan 21, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> ....seem to magically come back post that there dispute has been settled and to delete as many post as they can and ask to ignore their rants about the "misunderstanding" with the company.  It seems like Vida has oiled the squeaky wheel in the past.  It may not work especially after seeing this post but if you feel you were deceived and mislead it certainly wouldn't hurt to warn others so they don't make the mistake you did.



Might not hurt to use as large a typeface and bright a color as you are comfortable with. 

Jim


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## momeason (Jan 21, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> Might not hurt to use as large a typeface and bright a color as you are comfortable with.
> 
> Jim



And definitely name the resort in the title of your threads.


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## pjrose (Jan 21, 2012)

momeason said:


> And definitely name the resort in the title of your threads.



Maybe you can ask a moderator to modify the title?


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## easyrider (Jan 21, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Bill - I'm sorry, but this is bad advice.  A private owner CANNOT compete with corporate America on rental prices.  The rental market in Mexico is flat - sad truth.



I know. When we purchased our first TS it was after renting a significantly smaller room from Expedia for significantly more. One of the things that came up in the presentation was "look how much you spent compared to what you could spend", "look at what your getting compomared to what you have", "you could always rent it out and pocket the profit". Using Expedia prices a person can believe that this is true. 

What I was trying to convey to the op is "Don't beat yourself up. I understand how you could think you could rent it out. Letting it go might be your best choice."

Is that better.


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## max55 (Jan 22, 2012)

*DeniseM and others*

After doing a Sally13 search ,and reading a mountain,I have come to the conclusion that I am in complete agreement with most of what this poster has posted.

I also feel that a fair amount of bad treatment,was parlayed,that was neither correct or warranted.


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 22, 2012)

max55 said:


> After doing a Sally13 search ,and reading a mountain,I have come to the conclusion that I am in complete agreement with most of what this poster has posted.
> 
> I also feel that a fair amount of bad treatment,was parlayed,that was neither correct or warranted.



So, you are saying that you still agree with your old posts?  

Nice try, but I can see by your IP that you are still posting from "Big City," and your writing style, typing skills, and rhetoric are a dead ringer for your previous 4 user names.

And of course your MO is to return to TUG after several months absence, create a new user name, and start beating that old dead horse again.


----------



## m61376 (Jan 22, 2012)

Back to the OP- of course, it goes without saying that we wish you luck if you can get the transaction nullified. However, especially since you are thinking about buying a house, don't do anything to take a potential hit on your credit rating. 

Keep in mind that many people here are speaking with hindsight, many having been duped by slick sales pitches themselves. If you can't get out of the deal, the best advice has already been given- learn how to best utilize your ownership for wonderful family vacations. You may resent how you bought it, but I venture to guess that you'll really enjoy having a cheap vacation going forward, and it will be a place when you have kids to start family vacation memories. So, rather than focusing on having been ripped off, focus on making a great reservation for next year and looking forward to your next vacation there. 

And, keep in mind that Tug is a great resource to learn how best to use your week, and to come to before making your next purchase, as many of us inevitably do. It's easy to get hooked on timeshare vacations. Oh- welcome to Tug, btw


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## max55 (Jan 23, 2012)

*expecting a bang for your buck!*

Well stu...in pondering your situation,I come to two main thoughts.

   First,will you get  a great value for your investment?

The thousands of satisfied vida owners can assure you that YES you will!(despite the anti -vida sentiment on this board).

And second,as a new owner, you have a great advantage over a lot of us here..You purchased a premier ,top tier,resort!You did this on your FIRST timeshare purchase!Many folks find the vida properties after owning several previously purchased timeshares that they have come to dislike.That will NOT happen at Vida..every trip gets better and better!This resort is rated highest in class,by the main rating systems in the timeshare world..

As a long time owner from the start,trust me when I say that most other timeshares are not in the same ballgame as the club you now belong to.
Ever expanding Vida has been a pleasure to watch grow .
Many awesome vacations with family and friends,is what I offer as proof.Our kids  ,even today ,talk of the great times that were had at these resorts.

The staff at Vida has always satisfied our every request.....friends of ours were married there!!

If I could UNDUE anything in my life,it would be to NOT have purchased some of the other,cheaper deals in the timeshare offerings...we found Vida midway,and am blessed that we did! 

So ,if you do end up staying on...thousands of satisfied Vida owners welcome you!you will not be sorry.

heck..best money we ever spent!


max....not an employee of Vida,just a Very satisfied owner! 

also,you will never get sick eating any food or drink at Vida,(worth all the tea in china)they have the highest standards in all of mexico!


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## DeniseM (Jan 23, 2012)

max55 said:


> First,will you get  a great value for your investment?
> 
> The thousands of satisfied vida owners can assure you that YES you will!(despite the anti -vida sentiment on this board).



More great values in Mexico - starting at 1¢  
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Timeshares-...&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1

Even better, don't buy - just rent a Mayan Palace Getaway on II - there are literally hundreds of Mayan Palace Getaways on II, for every month of the year, starting at $217 week.


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## CAGypsy (Jan 23, 2012)

Gophesjo said:


> My first interval ownership purchase was a full-freight camp ground membership in California in the 80's.  After a couple of years I quit paying and it really didn't hurt me too badly.  Yes, I got some letters and a couple of phone calls, but no judgments, liens or garnishments.  I also don't recall it hurting my credit rating that much.
> 
> That all said, please don't take this as someone encouraging you (or anyone) not to honor their contractual obligations, especially in light of the fact that the collections business has changed significantly in the last 25 years.



I agree.  I know for a fact Vida Vacation has a location in Houston to collect payments... and turn people over to collections as well, no doubt.  It could end up hurting your credit, so think carefully before bailing on your contractual obligation.


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## max55 (Jan 24, 2012)

*cheap timeshares for 1 cent??*

talk about the MO of beating an old dead horse??:hysterical: I guess  only SOME tuggers are created more equally then others.(to quote a famous farm book)

but really...It IS true that one can pickup lesser properties at 1 cent bargains,only if one would like a ball and chain strapped to themselves,and REALLY regret the contract that they entered into.

As far as owning a Vida (top tier investment)...you will NOT be able to resale at 1 cent!

 with transfer fees(amounting to thousands) and loss of (perks)(VERY IMPORTANT)these Vida resales come up wanting.

The option to NOT pay a M-fee ,if you do not use your week, is just one of these coveted perks..free golf,front line booking ,ect.

You will NOT get this with your resale of Vida property.

You will pay less..yes,(certainly NOT a penny)but for our situation,the extra $$$ spent buying retail will pay for itself and also allow us to vacation when WE want to!(very important to this family)


max


----------



## pittle (Jan 24, 2012)

*Sometimes Perks DO go with a resale purchase*

The older contracts did not exclude VF weeks, golf, and no pay unless you go.  That is something they started a few years ago with outrageous transfer fees.

You just have to know what you are buying - deals ARE out there.


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## timeos2 (Jan 24, 2012)

As if there were any question before with the most recent pro-Mexican retail "value" posts we have an old, banned poster back to say "Hi - waste your money on retail in Mexico".  It had been awhile since I saw such cheer leading for a very bad choice on how to spend money.  Maybe she will take up supporting retail Wastegate next? 

Do and assume the opposite of those posts and you'll be just fine. Enjoy renting or resale and be wise.  Never buy retail timeshare - Mexico or anywhere else for best value.


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 24, 2012)

Sally - Now that I'm 100% sure who you are - I am banning you again.

Let me make this clear, since historically, you have a problem understanding the TUG posting rules:

*When you are banned from TUG, you may NOT create another user name to circumvent the fact that you were banned.*


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## brucecz (Jan 27, 2012)

max55 said:


> talk about the MO of beating an old dead horse??:hysterical: I guess  only SOME tuggers are created more equally then others.(to quote a famous farm book)
> 
> but really...It IS true that one can pickup lesser properties at 1 cent bargains,only if one would like a ball and chain strapped to themselves,and REALLY regret the contract that they entered into.
> 
> ...


Did anyone mention the wireless in unit internet fees?

It is such a easy exchange or rental for a very nice resort if you like huge resorts.

As far as owning a Vida :rofl: and thinking :hysterical: it is a top :rofl: tier "investment".:hysterical: 

Some of the smaller older PV resorts with fixed weeks have far better returns $ for $ when sold. Go to ebay and look under completed auctions. But a lot of those ownerships do not make it to ebay as they are grabbed by friends and realitives.


Bruce


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## stucandu (Jan 31, 2012)

*Issue Satisfactorily Resolved*

*I'm happy to report that all issues with Vida Vacations and Mayan Palace have been resolved to my complete satisfaction. ​*


----------



## pjrose (Jan 31, 2012)

stucandu said:


> *I'm happy to report that all issues with Vida Vacations and Mayan Palace have been resolved to my complete satisfaction. ​*



Glad to hear that, but does this post mean that you are not to post anything more about them?

Can you at least give others a bit of help by pointing them in the right direction to solve their issues?


----------



## Passepartout (Jan 31, 2012)

What this means is that the condition for resolution is for him to retract all the complaints he's posted against them. We've seen it over and over. I'd be surprised if he hasn't PM'd TugBrian to delete the rest.

Jim


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## pjrose (Jan 31, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> What this means is that the condition for resolution is for him to retract all the complaints he's posted against them. We've seen it over and over. I'd be surprised if he hasn't PM'd TugBrian to delete the rest.
> 
> Jim



Likely correct, Jim, especially given the language of the post.  

I hope he posts back with some help for others....I would think a positive post like "Senor xyz in the abc department was very helpful," and "We were able to negotiate a more satisfactory financial arrangement for fewer weeks" or whatever.  

C'mon OP, we've tried to help, now can you help future TUGgers with a bit of positive advice?


----------



## Passepartout (Jan 31, 2012)

Stu may reappear under a different username and explain in a 'what if' sort of way. Hint, hint, wink, wink. You never know who's watching. Or not. 

Jim


----------



## mikenk (Jan 31, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Likely correct, Jim, especially given the language of the post.
> 
> I hope he posts back with some help for others....I would think a positive post like "Senor xyz in the abc department was very helpful," and "We were able to negotiate a more satisfactory financial arrangement for fewer weeks" or whatever.
> 
> C'mon OP, we've tried to help, now can you help future TUGgers with a bit of positive advice?



I believe that you can assume that he contacted the GV member services that Greg (Aliikai2) suggested; they listened and acted on his complaint; there is no doubt the "squeaky wheel gets the oil" syndrome was in play to some extent. What more advice do you need?

That said, I have also carried issues I have had to Member Services concerning my contract and they have resolved it to my satisfaction. I have never had the inclination to share my complaints or my resolution with others. No situation is ever exactly the same. Like it or not, the GM contracts are generally very customized due to timing, many available options, and negotiating skills. 

Mike


----------



## pjrose (Jan 31, 2012)

mikenk said:


> I believe that you can assume that he contacted the GV member services that Greg (Aliikai2) suggested; they listened and acted on his complaint; there is no doubt the "squeaky wheel gets the oil" syndrome was in play to some extent. What more advice do you need?
> 
> That said, I have also carried issues I have had to Member Services concerning my contract and they have resolved it to my satisfaction. I have never had the inclination to share my complaints or my resolution with others. No situation is ever exactly the same. Like it or not, the GM contracts are generally very customized due to timing, many available options, and negotiating skills.
> 
> Mike



I don't need any - but the people like the OP who come on here with problems do    For their sake, it's good to know from the OP and you that issues can be resolved.


----------



## mikenk (Jan 31, 2012)

pjrose said:


> I don't need any - but the people like the OP who come on here with problems do    For their sake, it's good to know from the OP and you that issues can be resolved.



And that is what is important - that the issues got resolved, not the specific details that are basically irrelevant.

As all here know, the Grupo Vidanta system has probably the most aggressive sales force in the industry; from my experience, they don't tell different lies from all timeshare salespeople, they just tell them more aggressively, to more people by far, and are very successful doing so. 

What is not well known is their Member Services Department, not related to sales at all, is very responsive to resolving owner issues. Realistically, the vast majority of retail buyers have no clue as to the real value of their purchase and happily use their ownership for many years of vacations. The ones that do complain (from my experience) do get issues resolved.

Regardless of one's perspective, the reality is that the purchaser of timeshares need to start taking more personal responsibility for the contracts that they sign. Every timeshare buyer in Mexico has five days to cancel; it is clearly written in the contract - including all the GV contracts. I believe too many tuggers spend too much time condemning the sellers than scolding the buyers.

Just my opinion,
Mike


----------



## pjrose (Jan 31, 2012)

Mike, I completely agree with you except for one part - not ALL timeshare salespeople lie.  

That is simply not part of the presentation for some companies, who give the prospective buyer a simple contract at the outset, go over it, tell them to take it back and think about it, and even tell them about TUG!  

Otherwise, well put, especially your last paragraph. 

PJ


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## mikenk (Feb 1, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Mike, I completely agree with you except for one part - not ALL timeshare salespeople lie.
> 
> PJ



Touche. "All" is too encompassing a word; I should have used "in general".

In reality, any timeshare salesperson that is selling a retail contract that he or she knows as largely worthless is being dishonest. Any implication that rentals will bring income to cover the MF is being dishonest. 

I just imagine any sales person delivering this message. "for 20k, you can buy this timeshare from me, or you can go to this website and get it for free." or "For 20K, you can pay this MF forever to use it, or you can pay me nothing, go to these rental sites, and rent the same thing for less than the MF."

In reality, the retail part of this industry (in general) has to use deceit to survive. The irony is that everyone on TUG is enjoying the fruits of this deceit as new construction depends on it. (NOTE: Sally is probably smiling at that last statement.")

Mike


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## pjrose (Feb 1, 2012)

mikenk said:


> In reality, any timeshare salesperson that is selling a retail contract that he or she knows as largely worthless is being dishonest. Any implication that rentals will bring income to cover the MF is being dishonest.



First part, true.  Second part, we have always rented our TS weeks for more than the MF; in this market it's between a few hundred more and double, and in previous years it's been between double and triple, sometimes three-and-a-half times MF.  Really! A FEW times in recent years we didn't get a renter, but then we deposited with II and pulled out equivalent or better locations at our resort, or went elsewhere. 



mikenk said:


> I just imagine any sales person delivering this message. "for 20k, you can buy this timeshare from me, or you can go to this website and get it for free." or "For 20K, you can pay this MF forever to use it, or you can pay me nothing, go to these rental sites, and rent the same thing for less than the MF."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## momeason (Feb 2, 2012)

pjrose said:


> Mike, I completely agree with you except for one part - not ALL timeshare salespeople lie.
> 
> That is simply not part of the presentation for some companies, who give the prospective buyer a simple contract at the outset, go over it, tell them to take it back and think about it, and even tell them about TUG!
> 
> ...



What timeshare company tells you to think about it and to visit TUG?


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## mikenk (Feb 2, 2012)

momeason said:


> What timeshare company tells you to think about it and to visit TUG?



I assume it is the Royal resorts that seem to approach 'sainthood' when it comes to retail sales. I have not experienced this approach at other timeshares, but maybe there are others.

Mike


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## pjrose (Feb 3, 2012)

momeason said:


> What timeshare company tells you to think about it and to visit TUG?



The Royal Resorts.  That's how I learned about TUG.  And their salespeople told me us that we could use eBay and other online sources.  They didn't have to worry about whether I bought through them or not, because they knew others would.  



mikenk said:


> I assume it is the Royal resorts that seem to approach 'sainthood' when it comes to retail sales. I have not experienced this approach at other timeshares, but maybe there are others.
> 
> Mike



Well, I have had a few overenthusiastic salespeople at the Royals .... maybe two who were a bit pushy.....but never any lies or any promises that went beyond the contract.  And never any pressure.  They really do understand "no thanks."  Nothing at all like other places.   One difference may be that the contracts are "one size fits all," and the price list is pre-printed, so there's no wheeling and dealing, nothing extra thrown in, etc.  

I've heard that Marriotts are also more straightforward with their sales.


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## buceo (Feb 4, 2012)

momeason said:


> What timeshare company tells you to think about it and to visit TUG?



I can second that.  My salesman at the Royal Resorts. When I wasn't sure about a purchase & I asked how long I had to rescind if I did buy, said; "if you're not sure think about it instead of buying and rescinding."


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## nazclk (Feb 10, 2012)

*Hose em Hose em*

To the original OP   yup you got hosed.


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## robj (Feb 14, 2012)

*dream on about renting.*



stucandu said:


> Ok, way past the rescind day, so have to make the best of it.
> Thing is, I think there's a lot of different ways to determine how much is paid for a timeshare, ie, $250 per timeshare, but what does that include?
> I crunched the numbers a bit and the membership, over 25 years , results in a premium of $265 over the usage fee (currently $629) so that the 3 weeks we have cost us about $900/ea. If we rent out 2 of those weeks for $1350/week we recoup $900, which pays for the 1 week that we would regularly want to use each year.
> Is this rosey thinking or realistic?



Don't budget in renting. I've placed weeks with an agency "suggested" by Mayan beginning in 2009 and each year since and haven't rented a single week.  So don't use rental income in budget.  The only way to come out is to use it.  I do hope you got a contract where you DON'T have to pay the maintenance fee if you don't use the week(s)


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## pjrose (Feb 14, 2012)

stucandu said:


> . . . *If* we rent out 2 of those weeks for $1350/week we recoup $900, which pays for the 1 week that we would regularly want to use each year.
> Is this rosey thinking or realistic?



That's a very big "If."  Check asking prices for rentals on TUG and Redweek.com, and then you'll have a better idea....but keep in mind that the actual rentals will probably be a hundred or so lower than the asking price, and the highest priced ones may not rent at all.


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## PStreet1 (Feb 15, 2012)

A major point you don't seem to be understanding is that you can't rent those weeks for anything like the prices you are hoping for.  Check on Redweek.com and see what people have weeks listed for----more importantly, are any of those weeks disappearing from the listings indicating they have been rented?

It's easy, with a capital E, to find cheap rental weeks at very, very nice timeshares in Mexico--look on www.skyauction.com.  RCI and II rent out weeks for a couple of hundred dollars plus the bid price, and the bid price is often really, really low--sometimes a dollar or two.

You need to listen to the people on this forum who are telling you they didn't rent their weeks.  They didn't rent them because there isn't a market, not because they weren't clever enough to get the job done.


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## stucandu (Feb 20, 2012)

Deposit refunded in whole.   
Very thankful to all who gave constructive advice.  
Basically, the squeaky wheel get's the grease principle is what worked here. The internet affords plenty of 'squeak' potential, so even just the threat of using that is what turned the trick. :whoopie: 
Thanks again


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## Passepartout (Feb 20, 2012)

stucandu said:


> Deposit refunded in whole.



Great! Thanks for posting the whole litany along with step-by-step progress so others can benefit from your experience.

Hope it hasn't scared you off from timeshare entirely, just presentations. TS is still a great way to vacation.

Jim


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## pjrose (Feb 20, 2012)

Yay, that's great!  

And as Jim says, go to timeshares, just stay away from the presentations!


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