# Dilemma with renter



## MOXJO7282 (May 2, 2014)

So a renter whose paid me $1700 of $2425 for a high demand week contacted me several months ago and says they're pregnant and its a little problematic and they were told they couldn't travel so they wanted a refund. They weren't smart enough to get travel insurance.

My rental agreements do say in fine print if you need to cancel for any reason I will re-list an IF I can get your money back I will give a full refund but it clearly states there is no guarantee.

So I've had the unit listed for several months and to my surprise it hasn't re-rented but certainly will at a lower rate.

The problem is the wife who is very nice keeps calling and now tells me husband is out of work so money is even more critical. And she keeps bringing up her difficult pregnancy so she's on disability, and it really makes me feel guilty for not automatically refunding their money.    

I have no doubt what she is telling me is true as this woman I can tell is honest and I want to help her but I have a daughter in college and am raising a family on Long Island, one of the most expensive places to do so in the country, so money doesn't grow on trees for me either.

There is usually a lot of activity at the 60 day mark so I’m still hopeful it will rent and I’ll be able to get most or all of their money back.   If it doesn’t I’ve decided I’ll take a $$1200 hit and return $500 so instead of getting the $2450 I’ll end up with $1220 or so, which is $400 below MFs.


It really bothers me to do so for the reasons mentioned but these people have some real hardship so I’m compelled to help to some degree but I will not refund the full amount because that really hurts me financially so at the end of the day the renter’s will still be bummed out probably about losing $1200 but they should have taken out travel insurance and should feel lucky I’m refunding anything.


This is the first time in all my years of renting this has happened so it is an isolated case.  One that I won’t be going through again because I’ve already changed my agreements to be more forceful about insurance and refunds.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 2, 2014)

Everyone has a story. I don't even have a cancel option in my agreements but I would try and relist it if someone had to cancel. Obviously taking a hit is your choice but I don't see how any of their situation is your fault. You didn't get her pregnant or lay off her husband. I know you feel bad but it's not your fault or your responsibility. If they hadn't rented it you wouldn't be in this position and likely would have gotten the full amount from someone else.

When it comes to business agreements in my opinion it is best to leave emotion completely out of it. Lower the price, get it rented, and refund the difference. I personally would charge a $100 fee for the administrative work in renting the unit to someone else.

It is doubtful travel insurance would have covered their issues. It is very difficult to claim on travel insurance.


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## K2Quick (May 2, 2014)

Have her find a new renter for you.  If she wants her refund badly enough, she'll work hard to find one.  If neither you nor she finds a replacement renter, you shouldn't refund a dime.


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## vacationhopeful (May 2, 2014)

Saintsfanfl has given YOU good advice. 

And I charge $150 "re-renting" for a cancellation AFTER I get it rented. And if I rent it for less than the 1st person contracted amount, they don't get a full refund. 

As for taking a HIT - WHY? They choose to NOT GET RENTERS' INSURANCE -- most likely to_* SAVE *_the cost of that insurance. They thought they were _SMART_.

And instead of giving them $500, offer them a CREDIT of $500 for a future full price trip (good for 3 years ONLY). Sure, she wants the money - but you EARNED IT - giving her the future credit (nontransferable). AND that is being really generous and AFTER you get it rented. But THIS IS NOT PART OF YOUR BUSINESS PLAN - I would NOT do it.

As for continuing to TALK to her, she seems experienced in being a woman talking to a older male - stop taking her phone calls. No good will come out of it. If you get the week rented, JUST send them a BANK CHECK with the notation - FINAL SETTLEMENT on RENTAL CONTRACT with "resort name" & "travel dates".

Expect MORE and MORE tears if you continue to talk to her or her husband. Her family has made several BIG decisions and things are not working out for them. If they were some young couple 4 blocks over, would you give them $500?


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## Mamianka (May 2, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Everyone has a story. I don't even have a cancel option in my agreements but I would try and relist it if someone had to cancel. Obviously taking a hit is your choice but I don't see how any of their situation is your fault. You didn't get her pregnant or lay off her husband. I know you feel bad but it's not your fault or your responsibility. If they hadn't rented it you wouldn't be in this position and likely would have gotten the full amount from someone else.
> 
> When it comes to business agreements in my opinion it is best to leave emotion completely out of it. Lower the price, get it rented, and refund the difference. I personally would charge a $100 fee for the administrative work in renting the unit to someone else.
> 
> It is doubtful travel insurance would have covered their issues. It is very difficult to claim on travel insurance.




I agree.  Business is business - and you say you can "tell" they are honest???  HOW???    Judges, juries, and Congress are often bamboozled.  Stick to your guns - communicate in WRITING from now on, even if email that you keep copies of.  This may sound heartless, but like SF said - EVERYBODY has a story - problem is, not all of them are 100 percent true.  

NO GUILT about this, either.  Perhaps they need to learn some responsibility before their baby arrives . . .

M


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## presley (May 2, 2014)

I understand your sympathy with their situation.  Still, it's not your fault and you are trying to rent it.  I'd just tell her exactly what your situation is.  Tell her exactly how much money you are personally stuck paying because she broke the contract.  She can help you try to rent it to someone else.  She should also have the same sympathy for you since they have reserved your unit for a period of time that is now making you rent it for less than what it costs you.


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## Ken555 (May 2, 2014)

Sounds like a bad situation. Sorry to say, but if I was in your shoes I'd be concerned that once you gave them some money back they would go after you for a full refund. If you do give any money back you should have them sign a settlement agreement first, not just write some words on a check (which typically isn't enforceable). Of course, I hate to say it but I agree with those who advise you not to refund anything since the agreement between you and the renter was spelled out and they signed. 


Sent from my iPad


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## mjkkb2 (May 2, 2014)

This may not be a very popular suggestion but here it is.  IF you already decided to 'help them out' to some extent with partial refund I wouldn't change it.  
Most likely, the renters will not be 100% satisfied with anything less that the full amount being refunded.  Even though they're are entitled to a total of $0 per contract terms.  However, if you feel like sacrificing a portion of the prepayment to make good by them - go ahead and do it.  As a firm believer of Karma I think the $500 you will be loosing will pay dividends in some way in the future. 
I also second the idea of making them do the work of finding a new paying renter.

regards


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## sparty (May 2, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> So a renter whose paid me $1700 of $2425 for a high demand week contacted me several months ago and says they're pregnant and its a little problematic and they were told they couldn't travel so they wanted a refund. They weren't smart enough to get travel insurance.
> 
> My rental agreements do say in fine print if you need to cancel for any reason I will re-list an IF I can get your money back I will give a full refund but it clearly states there is no guarantee.
> 
> ...



So I will go against the concurring opinion of the Court of Tug and provide a dissenting opinion. 

I personally would ask for a letter from the doctor and assuming that is true, refund all the money.

I think the argument it won't rent at all doesn't hold.  If it's a highly in demand week, it will rent. So at the very least they should get a good chunk of money back, this shouldn't be a question.  A highly in demand week renting for less than maintenance fees is an oxymoron.

The contract is not written to the same level of detail that Marriott, Wyndham and others put in sales contracts, it leaves it too open and vague even though you may think it's crystal clear.


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## laurac260 (May 2, 2014)

I know we aren't supposed to post rentals here, but can I ask when/where the rental is at least?


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## sjsharkie (May 2, 2014)

+1 for Saintsfan and Ken555's advice

For my rental agreements, there is no cancellations stated in the agreement.  If a renter does need to cancel, I will try to relist for them, but it is not required for me to do this.

If I do find a back-up renter, the original agreement will be cancelled through some sort of settlement agreement.  Basically, in consideration for cancelling the agreement at request of the owner, I will be refunding the rental price less $XX depending on my costs/loss due to the rerental.

Kudos to the OP for trying to do the right thing here.  Everyone does have a story.  I would stick to the terms of the agreement and try to re-rent BUT I would not take a loss on the arrangement.

-ryan


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## Weimaraner (May 2, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> I know we aren't supposed to post rentals here, but can I ask when/where the rental is at least?



I'm curious too. You have some prime weeks so maybe it would get interest at the 60 day mark. Fingers crossed that this is a lot of worry about nothing and you get it rented out so no one loses. I was in a similar situation. I ended up depositing my prime week into Interval. I would rather have had the money but I ended up getting two great vacations out of it, and the renter paid a modest cancellation fee. I too went with the karma thing and in the end my renter is okay and I have some good memories with my daughter on vacation. But needless to say my contract has since been updated to say "no cancellations period" to help avoid future worries.  Good luck to you!


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## MOXJO7282 (May 2, 2014)

If I could refund the full amount I would but I just can't unless I re-rent it. I'm about to lower the price because it will rent for lower but I'm trying to get back as much as possible for the family. 

At some point it will go on TUG _[Last Minute Rentals forum]_ just to get something and it will rent so that is more money so in total I will have about $2400 so the question is how much can I return without it hurting my family's finances.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 2, 2014)

sparty said:


> So I will go against the concurring opinion of the Court of Tug and provide a dissenting opinion.
> 
> I personally would ask for a letter from the doctor and assuming that is true, refund all the money.
> 
> ...



Not trying to argue but a doctor letter stating what? The first reason was pregnancy and that they were told they couldn't travel due to pregnancy complications. I would want a letter on or before that date stating these facts. I am highly skeptical that this is the truth because a no travel medical restriction is the only reason they need for not going. Then the wife says the husband is out of work and they need the money. Then she says she is on disability. The only reason I believe to be the truth is that they changed their minds and need the money back. I know I am a heartless skeptic but I have dealt with so many liars and scammers in my life.

At the end of the day whether it is truth or lies it's still not my fault but I cannot fault the OP for being a good Samaritan. If only everyone was like that we would have much less to worry about in life, and possibly no timeshares.


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## Ken555 (May 2, 2014)

sparty said:


> So I will go against the concurring opinion of the Court of Tug and provide a dissenting opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How much time do you suggest the OP put into this rental? It's already been sold. Time is money. Asking the OP to spend the time to rent it again, which appears to be happening, is a burden on the OP which I think needs to be paid for by the original renter. And, have you seen the OP's rental agreement? While you may be correct, how do you know it's vague? I think a "no refunds" / "all sales final" policy is fairly easy to write into an agreement.


Sent from my iPad


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## Ken555 (May 2, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> If I could refund the full amount I would but I just can't unless I re-rent it. I'm about to lower the price because it will rent for lower but I'm trying to get back as much as possible for the family.
> 
> 
> 
> At some point it will go on TUG 45 day list at $700 just to get something and it will rent so that is more money so in total I will have about $2400 so the question is how much can I return without it hurting my family's finances.




Don't feel guilty. You did nothing wrong. You don't owe them anything. They bought your product and now they want to return it, but the agreement said no returns (correct?). Don't lose sleep over other peoples problems or else you won't sleep at all. If you can rent it again for a similar amount, refund what you can so that you earn the original sale price plus some for your extra effort renting it twice. Sorry it's so clear cut to me, but...it is. Don't let their story sway you.


Sent from my iPad


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## SueDonJ (May 2, 2014)

laurac260 said:


> I know we aren't supposed to post rentals here, but can I ask when/where the rental is at least?





Weimaraner said:


> I'm curious too. You have some prime weeks so maybe it would get interest at the 60 day mark. Fingers crossed that this is a lot of worry about nothing and you get it rented out so no one loses. I was in a similar situation. I ended up depositing my prime week into Interval. I would rather have had the money but I ended up getting two great vacations out of it, and the renter paid a modest cancellation fee. I too went with the karma thing and in the end my renter is okay and I have some good memories with my daughter on vacation. But needless to say my contract has since been updated to say "no cancellations period" to help avoid future worries.  Good luck to you!



Specifics about the where/when of a rental should be kept to PM's or the appropriate TUG forums - posts resembling ads are not allowed in the public forums.


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## vacationhopeful (May 2, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> If I could refund the full amount I would but I just can't unless I re-rent it. I'm about to lower the price because it will rent for lower but I'm trying to get back as much as possible for the family.
> 
> At some point it will go on TUG 45 day list at $700 just to get something and it will rent so that is more money so in total I will have about $2400 so the question is how much can I return without it hurting my family's finances.



Joe,
I believe you do not want to be a meanie --- but _you are being "played_". Please STOP talking to them - give it 4 or 5 days with NO DRAMA and let your head clear. Ignore their calls and emails - next you will be getting calls from their families. 

You know you have to cover your costs first - those Marriott weeks MFs you own are expensive. This not a weekend at The WILDWOODS of NJ in a 1950s Motel 3 blocks from the beach. This is a FLY to destination, at a FIVE STAR resort, requiring a rental car and expensive food & entertainment. You are right - 60 days out would require a reduction in rent to balance the HIGHER COST OF FLYING. They signed a rental agreement for an expensive vacation. YET, they seemed to have NOT PLANNED for a even bigger expense call "THE BABY". 

I have been renting stuff for years ---- Please change your rental agreements to say --- *NO REFUNDS. NO CANCALATIONS. Suggest buying VACATION TRAVEL INSURANCE for UNPLANNED EMERGENCIES.* 

And YES, I have helped out renters who can't go. Had one (multiple repeat) client who broke a hip 2+ weeks before check in just this year (booked several weeks). But returned_ SOME _money AFTER I knew my numbers when I had the units rerented.


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## vacationhopeful (May 2, 2014)

ken555 said:


> don't feel guilty. You did nothing wrong. You don't owe them anything. They bought your product and now they want to return it, but the agreement said no returns (correct?). Don't lose sleep over other peoples problems or else you won't sleep at all. If you can rent it again for a similar amount, refund what you can so that you earn the original sale price plus some for your extra effort renting it twice. Sorry it's so clear cut to me, but...it is. Don't let their story sway you.



totally +1.


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## larryallen (May 2, 2014)

The only thing you did wrong was not getting all the money up front. Learn for next time. 100% up front. If they can't afford it find someone else. Don't waste time with multiple payments. 

I have rented a lot of timeshares over the years and I know there is a risk. If I cancel, for any reason, it's on ME. I would never think to ask for a refund. I can try to re-rent it, give it away, or eat it. I don't believe in trip insurance as it's like most insurances for small dollar items it's cost prohibitive.  So I self insure like anything I can in life.

If you can't re-rent then only refund her money back if you like giving strangers money for no reason. Which is ok but why!?  Give at place of worship, give to charities, give to schools, give where you can but don't just give to some random stranger with a sob story.


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## PamMo (May 2, 2014)

I agree with the others that a written no refund policy in the contract means NO REFUND, and your renter simply doesn't get it - or feels like her situation is "special" and it shouldn't apply to her. They chose not to buy travel insurance and take their chances. Bad things happen and emergencies come up, but YOU aren't responsible for them. I think it's admirable that you're trying to re-rent it, and will give her a refund if you find another renter. You should not feel guilty, but I can certainly empathize with you. Taking her calls must be agony.


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## Egret1986 (May 2, 2014)

*This seems to be a norm.  I can't tell you how many times in the last month...*

someone has tried to put their issues on my shoulders.  Business is simply business.  I will always do more than is required when someone needs to cancel.  But after this past month and getting this from unexpected sources, I've had to toughen up.  My rental agreement has always stated no cancellation, but that if another suitable renter is found, a refund will be provided less a $125-$200 administrative fee based on what was rented. Everyone has a "story"; true or otherwise.  I don't try to lay my personal issues on others when its a business deal.  It should not come into play period.  I am fed up with this.  My husband says I'm too nice.  I prefer to be nice and help out, but it will eventually suck you dry.  It's ridiculous how bad it has gotten.




Saintsfanfl said:


> Not trying to argue but a doctor letter stating what? The first reason was pregnancy and that they were told they couldn't travel due to pregnancy complications. I would want a letter on or before that date stating these facts. I am highly skeptical that this is the truth because a no travel medical restriction is the only reason they need for not going. Then the wife says the husband is out of work and they need the money. Then she says she is on disability. The only reason I believe to be the truth is that they changed their minds and need the money back. I know I am a heartless skeptic but I have dealt with so many liars and scammers in my life.
> 
> At the end of the day whether it is truth or lies it's still not my fault but I cannot fault the OP for being a good Samaritan. If only everyone was like that we would have much less to worry about in life, and possibly no timeshares.



If you follow what is stated in the Agreement that all the parties agreed to, then you can't go wrong.  I have tried and tried to assist folks because I do know stuff happens, but you're setting yourself up for failure.  It's one this year..,.next year, two.....I see this increasing and I've decided enough is enough.  Life happens to all of us.  Your issues are your issues.  Quite trying to lay them on me.  I can't save the world. :annoyed:



Ken555 said:


> How much time do you suggest the OP put into this rental? It's already been sold. Time is money. Asking the OP to spend the time to rent it again, which appears to be happening, is a burden on the OP which I think needs to be paid for by the original renter. And, have you seen the OP's rental agreement? While you may be correct, how do you know it's vague? I think a "no refunds" / "all sales final" policy is fairly easy to write into an agreement.
> 
> Sent from my iPad



What Ken said.  



Ken555 said:


> Don't feel guilty. You did nothing wrong. You don't owe them anything. They bought your product and now they want to return it, but the agreement said no returns (correct?). Don't lose sleep over other peoples problems or else you won't sleep at all. If you can rent it again for a similar amount, refund what you can so that you earn the original sale price plus some for your extra effort renting it twice. Sorry it's so clear cut to me, but...it is. Don't let their story sway you.
> 
> Sent from my iPad



FOLLOW THE AGREEMENT!!!  AGAIN, what Ken said! 



vacationhopeful said:


> Joe,
> I believe you do not want to be a meanie --- but _you are being "played_". Please STOP talking to them - give it 4 or 5 days with NO DRAMA and let your head clear. Ignore their calls and emails - next you will be getting calls from their families.
> 
> You know you have to cover your costs first - those Marriott weeks MFs you own are expensive. This not a weekend at The WILDWOODS of NJ in a 1950s Motel 3 blocks from the beach. This is a FLY to destination, at a FIVE STAR resort, requiring a rental car and expensive food & entertainment. You are right - 60 days out would require a reduction in rent to balance the HIGHER COST OF FLYING. They signed a rental agreement for an expensive vacation. YET, they seemed to have NOT PLANNED for a even bigger expense call "THE BABY".
> ...



Listen, Joe.  Things have been smooth sailing with your rentals.  You've hit that first "bump".  You have come to TUG with this.  Listen to the wisdom, please.  I find this is becoming typical in every aspect of life.  "Hey, I've got personal issues...I want to give them to you."  What?!!!!   No thanks.  I've got my own, thank you very much.  It's not being mean.  It's business.  Sorry, but that's just the way it has to be it seems.  If you keep going, you will experience it more and more.  Believe me.  To continue to be successful it will be necessary.  You will never, ever hear from or see these people again.  They don't care about your personal issues or they wouldn't be bugging you for a refund.  Simple test; their needs or your family's needs?  

This is all currently very fresh for me.  I've been pinged at all last month....Ping, ping, ping.....even from someone I've had a very strong business relationship with, who requested that I take on someone else's issues (whom neither of us know personally) and to my detriment.  Noooooooo, not you, too.  :annoyed:  

Finally closed on the sale of an "investment" property this week.  I let it set empty for 10 months rather than put someone else in it.  It has been a 9 year drag on our lives.  It's gone!   However, the buyer requested a closing with only a 20 day time frame.  Long story short....she and her two children would not have anywhere to live after the 25th.  She wanted to close on the 23rd.  We jumped through hoops to get everything requested done......we wanted out.  Her lender was a hold-up and the buyer had to make some adjustments which pushed the closing to the 30th.  "Can we get early possession, please?" (from buyers agent).  I've got a single Mom sitting here with her two young children crying because they have nowhere to live.... Noooooooooooooo early possession.  I didn't leave it setting empty for that long to have someone move in there and possibly not get closed.  My agent relayed the "no".  The other agent asked her to please ask us again.  Fortunately, my agent was wise enough not to approach us again.  Why should the buyer's personal issues be placed upon my back to my potential detriment? 

Does that make me uncaring? I don't think so.  

Sorry for the rant, but this thread is where I've been all month.  No more.

Follow the Agreement.  Why have an Agreement otherwise?


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## Weimaraner (May 2, 2014)

I found out more info since I was hoping to take an easy East Coast rental off his hands. But this is a much longer flight that takes more planning from the East and is best suited for the west Coasters to take to paradise. Joe, it's nice that you are trying to make it work because you have a good heart but you have an agreement and you shouldn't take the hit for a last minute cancellation. I felt bad at first since I had a high risk pregnancy. But she didn't get pregnant overnight and they could have let you know sooner that it wasn't a good idea to go on a long long trip in her condition. Stand by the agreement like everyone says. Show her you are listing it and tell her to get working on getting it rented too. Hopefully this will work out.


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## EducatedConsumer (May 2, 2014)

We take 100% up front, with signing of Rental Agreement, with no refunds, no sublet (clearly stated in Rental Agreement), and no Escrow Agent nonsense. We have a more than a 15 year track record of flawless rentals, and solid references, which is the greatest comfort level that we are willing to afford to the renter. 

We too recommend travel insurance.

I think you're leaning towards Ann Curry's Acts of Kindness, which is laudable.

When we rent to someone (often at half of rack rate), we have no remorse about closing the books on the deal, once a signed Rental Agreement and payment in full is received. 

I can sympathize with the person who rented from you, but they enjoyed limited exposure by not having paid in full, and they rolled the dice by not purchasing travel insurance. Travel insurance companies may have much deeper pockets than you, and it is they who roll the dice (for a fee). Your renter seems to have decided not to put that risk in the hands of an insurance company. 

Personally, I wouldn't take a hit by this renter.


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## MOXJO7282 (May 2, 2014)

EducatedConsumer said:


> We take 100% up front, with signing of Rental Agreement, with no refunds, no sublet (clearly stated in Rental Agreement), and no Escrow Agent nonsense. We have a more than a 15 year track record of flawless rentals, and solid references, which is the greatest comfort level that we are willing to afford to the renter.
> 
> We too recommend travel insurance.
> 
> ...



We offer an upfront payment price which is my ideal price and then I add $150 usually so that if they want to pay over time, I require deposit a few 100 over MFs and then final payment at 90 days before check-in, I get an even nicer payoff. 

I'd say 50% take the upfront payment price.

Since most of my weeks are pretty popular I always figured if I didn't receive final payment by 90 days I could re-rent fairly easily at that point.

This the first time in 113 rentals (just counted) that this has happened so I never had to test my theory until now.


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## alchook (May 2, 2014)

Weimaraner said:


> But she didn't get pregnant overnight



She very well may have.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 2, 2014)

alchook said:


> She very well may have.



:hysterical: Too, too funny !


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## ronparise (May 2, 2014)

I didnt read all the posts on this ao Im sorry if someone else said the same thing.

Heres what I would do.. Try to re-rent it and if you do;  return their money. If you dont get the same price, return a pro-rated amount.  And give them a chance to find their own replacement... 

If you dont get it re rented, they get nothing back


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## cp73 (May 2, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> This the first time in 113 rentals (just counted) that this has happened so I never had to test my theory until now.



Wow those are great numbers, so what you have been doing has worked well for you. You probably have done this way more times than most of us. So just do what you feel good about doing. You are the one who has to live with your decision being right or wrong. I always to do that dealing in business and it always seems to work best for me. 

I have never had a problem renting my unit. I have always thought that if someone wanted out after they had paid I would refund their money up to what I was able to re-rent it for. If I got the same price I would refund all. No extra charges.  If I got less I would refund less. If I got nothing I would have thrown it back to II within the last possible minutes and then placed a value on that and refunded that lesser amount.


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## Venter (May 3, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I didnt read all the posts on this ao Im sorry if someone else said the same thing.
> 
> Heres what I would do.. Try to re-rent it and if you do;  return their money. If you dont get the same price, return a pro-rated amount.  And give them a chance to find their own replacement...
> 
> If you dont get it re rented, they get nothing back



Ron gets my vote.


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## dioxide45 (May 3, 2014)

Egret1986 said:


> Listen, Joe.  Things have been smooth sailing with your rentals.  You've hit that first "bump".  You have come to TUG with this.  Listen to the wisdom, please.  I find this is becoming typical in every aspect of life.  "Hey, I've got personal issues...I want to give them to you."  What?!!!!   No thanks.  I've got my own, thank you very much.  It's not being mean.  It's business.  Sorry, but that's just the way it has to be it seems.  If you keep going, you will experience it more and more.  Believe me.  To continue to be successful it will be necessary.  You will never, ever hear from or see these people again.  They don't care about your personal issues or they wouldn't be bugging you for a refund.  Simple test; their needs or your family's needs?
> 
> This is all currently very fresh for me.  I've been pinged at all last month....Ping, ping, ping.....even from someone I've had a very strong business relationship with, who requested that I take on someone else's issues (whom neither of us know personally) and to my detriment.  Noooooooo, not you, too.  :annoyed:
> 
> ...



This is a great post. It shows that people will literally try to suck you dry if you let them. They are trying to the best things for them and their family and while I understand why Joe is trying to be a "good guy", you need to learn to say no.

This can be a tricky situation. I have seen some people mention charging a fee for finding a new renter or re-renting the week. That can really only be done if that fee is spelled out in the contract or if they can come to some sort of written settlement agreement.

Depending on the current renter it could still get expensive. If they paid by credit card they may do a charge back. If successful, then Joe has to sue. Probably more expensive than just taking the loss. If they don't do a charge back and try to sue Joe, he has to pay to defend himself. He may win or he may not. One thinks things are cut and dry, but it isn't always that easy. A rental agreement can be open to a lot of interpretation. Especially if written yourself or even modified yourself. Any contract really should be reviewed and updated by your lawyer. If Joe plans to do this long term as it appears he is doing, he really should have his lawyer look at the agreement if he hadn't already. Still doesn't prevent someone challenging them though.

Trying to save a few bucks by not having a lawyer review it may save you a few bucks today, but cost you a lot more down the road. BTW, I am not a lawyer.


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## MOXJO7282 (May 3, 2014)

My last conversation with the couple was that I'm going to try to get you  full refund, but it's not likely. Again this was stated in my rental agreement and at no time during our multiple conversations did I suggest a full refund but for some reason they were expecting one. I asked why and they said wishful thinking. They're not being difficult and my sense is if I told them they get $0 they wouldn't bitch just be very disappointed.

My problem is I'm an admitted sucker when it comes to a sad story.  I'm the type that cries watching a touching TV commercial. Also my wife is disabled with Lupus, had 2 tough pregnancies as a result so I'm simpathetic to this couple.

I've decided if I get an additional $700 which I have to believe is almost a given I'll return about that to them and for me I'll be left with the MF covered.

Lesson learned for me. I've already strengthened my cancellation policy so this will be a one time occurrence.


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## ronparise (May 3, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> My last conversation with the couple was that I'm going to try to get you  full refund, but it's not likely. Again this was stated in my rental agreement and at no time during our multiple conversations did I suggest a full refund but for some reason they were expecting one. I asked why and they said wishful thinking. They're not being difficult and my sense is if I told them they get $0 they wouldn't bitch just be very disappointed.
> 
> My problem is I'm an admitted sucker when it comes to a sad story.  I'm the type that cries watching a touching TV commercial. Also my wife is disabled with Lupus, had 2 tough pregnancies as a result so I'm simpathetic to this couple.
> 
> ...



there you go...live and learn....and what you learned is that things can go bad. Its all part of the game. You do the best you can do to protect yourself and still be a decent human being


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## ronparise (May 3, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> This is a great post. It shows that people will literally try to suck you dry if you let them. They are trying to the best things for them and their family and while I understand why Joe is trying to be a "good guy", you need to learn to say no.
> 
> This can be a tricky situation. I have seen some people mention charging a fee for finding a new renter or re-renting the week. That can really only be done if that fee is spelled out in the contract or if they can come to some sort of written settlement agreement.
> 
> ...



slightly contrary view..I just bought a home, The seller had a problem and cant get posession of her new place unlil June 1, and asked if she can stay over... No problem for me, except Ill pay for an extra months with  POD in the driveway.  and she is paying me a months rent. (she offered, I didnt ask for it)  so an easy Yes. why not.  I know the risk is ill have to evict her which can be a real pain, but I dont expect to have to do that.  

I want this deal, so I made concessions to get it. It has nothing to do with being a nice guy. If I was advising Egret1986 my question for him would be not only. what is the risk if you let the buyer have early occupancy but also I would ask;  what is the risk if you dont.....ie how bad do you really want to make the sale there are risks whatever you do


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## DeniseM (May 3, 2014)

Unfortunately, there are many people who want to go on vacations, that they can't really afford.  Here are some signs:

*-Can I pay the $100 deposit in 3 weeks when I get paid/get my tax return/get my settlement/get my child support payment?
-My credit card is maxed out, can I send you a check?
-I can't afford the whole amount, can I make payments?
-This is going to be our dream vacation, but we have a tight budget, can you cut your price 50%?
*
All of these statements are indicators that these folks should stay home and apply the funds to their debts, instead of taking an expensive vacation. 

In the few times that I have reluctantly agreed to "help them out," I usually ended up regretting it, because these are the same folks that as soon as they have (yet another) financial set-back, will want to cancel their vacation, and will be angry with YOU the owner, because you can't accommodate the shifting sands of their financial nightmare.

Then you get, *"Yes, I know that I agreed to your "no-refund" policy, but now my husband lost his job and that changes everything.  Only someone with no heart, would hold us to the contract under the circumstances."*

I no longer "help people out" with special terms...


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## Egret1986 (May 3, 2014)

*We were never meant to be landlords; had two different renters that we had to evict*



ronparise said:


> I want this deal,do I made concessions to get it. It has nothing to do with being a nice guy. If I was advising Egret1986 my question for him would be not only. what is the risk if you let the buyer have early occupancy but also I would ask;  what is the risk if you dont.....ie how bad do you really want to make the sale there are risks whatever you do



The first caused so much damage by the time we were able to get her out that we had to spend a long time and lots of money to get things repaired to get the next tenant in (roof, kitchen, walls, etc).  The last tenant before we finally said "that's it, no more" had to be evicted also for non-payment of rent.  Fortunately, the family did not destroy the property.

Both these renters had issues and determined that because of their issues that we should take them on.  We should provide them with a place to live and they shouldn't have to pay. 

Why wasn't the Buyer's agent willing to help her client?  Why did she want us to take that on?   

We gave and gave and gave to this buyer because we wanted to sell so badly.  Enough was enough.  Just say, we were gun shy from our past dealings.  For all we knew, something could happen with the lender, we could have problems getting this person out of our property...........doesn't ma tter now and we made the best decision for us.    All history now.   Lesson learned.


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## icydog (May 3, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Unfortunately, there are many people who want to go on vacations, that they can't really afford.  Here are some signs:
> 
> *-Can I pay the $100 deposit in 3 weeks when I get paid/get my tax return/get my settlement/get my child support payment?
> -My credit card is maxed out, can I send you a check?
> ...



+1. It used to happen to me all the time when I rented my DVC Points out.  I learned the hard way. I got 100% upfront and a rental agreement that clearly stated if they couldn't use the vacation I reserved for them they were free to 
re-rent it with my consent, or give it away also with my consent.  It happened several times and two of the times they found other renters.  The third time the guy lost his job in Detroit and I refunded his money. My use year was such that I had almost 9 months to re-rent the vacation, but in today's market I would never do that.


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## SCSTWG (May 3, 2014)

I am a renter, not an owner (by design), so I have a different perspective than some. My preferred way to rent is to get confirmation of the unit being in my name and then to send full payment.  More often than not, there is no rental agreement but well established terms documented in e-mail correspondence.  I have never had to cancel, but if I did, I would contact the seller, explain the situation, and see what my options were.  I would be extremely disappointed and surprised if the owner wouldn't try to re-rent and refund the new rental amount (if less).  Perhaps a small fee for the extra effort.  To take an approach that is unwilling to help is unnecessarily harsh especially when the vast majority of owners are not dependant on this money as a primary source of income.  Then again, I am the type that helps people when I can.  Saying it is "just business" is basically saying you have no sympathy for people who find themselves in a tough spot. Yes, you don't have to be a kind person, but maybe you should try it some time........you just might like it.  There might come a time where you need help from someone (maybe not financial) and that someone may not be required to help you.


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## DeniseM (May 3, 2014)

Even if you signed a "no-cancellations, no-refunds" agreement, you would expect the owner to accommodate you?  

Does that mean if the owner cancelled your reservation, you'd be equally understanding?

That is exactly the issue I see with a small percentage of renters.  They would go ballistic if the owner doesn't follow the agreement to a "T" but they don't really think that it applies to them, if their plans change.

BTW - That's why I recommend travel insurance multiple time during the rental process.  That is the other thing that a prudent renter should do.  Then the renter has planned ahead to handle their own changing circumstances, and they don't have to ask the owner to make an exception for them.


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## dioxide45 (May 3, 2014)

SCSTWG said:


> I am a renter, not an owner (by design), so I have a different perspective than some. My preferred way to rent is to get confirmation of the unit being in my name and then to send full payment.  More often than not, there is no rental agreement but well established terms documented in e-mail correspondence.  I have never had to cancel, but if I did, I would contact the seller, explain the situation, and see what my options were.  I would be extremely disappointed and surprised if the owner wouldn't try to re-rent and refund the new rental amount (if less).  Perhaps a small fee for the extra effort.  To take an approach that is unwilling to help is unnecessarily harsh especially when the vast majority of owners are not dependant on this money as a primary source of income.  Then again, I am the type that helps people when I can.  Saying it is "just business" is basically saying you have no sympathy for people who find themselves in a tough spot. Yes, you don't have to be a kind person, but maybe you should try it some time........you just might like it.  There might come a time where you need help from someone (maybe not financial) and that someone may not be required to help you.



I don't think anyone is suggesting that Joe not try to rerent and refund any amount he can collect from the new renter. He seems to be willing to help the original renter out and no one is faulting him for that.

Though I think that renters know what to expect. If they want a better cancellation policy, they are free to rent on Marriott.com. Though they seem to want a deal and get the full cancellation policy too. It just doesn't work that way with private rentals.

If Joe isn't able to re-rent the unit, I think the current renters know that they are not entitled to a refund nor should Joe feel guilty for not providing one.


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## SCSTWG (May 3, 2014)

OP is going above and beyond......agreed.  My reference was to those who are taking to referencing contracts and standing behind phrases like "it's business".  Let's take a scenario.  A couple rents high demand unit from owner and pays in full understanding there are no cancellations. 60 days out they contact you and say their spouse was killed in a car accident and this is verified.  They state that there is no way they can go on vacation and ASK if there is anything you can do?

Option A:  Sorry for your loss. However you signed an agreement that clearly states there are no cancellations. There is nothing I can do. Sorry, it's just business.

Option B:  Sorry for your loss. I know this is a tough time.  I know you are aware that there are no cancellations per our agreement, but I feel terrible and will try to re-rent the unit and at least try to get you some of your money back.  I can't make any promises, but if I drop the price a little I think I can rent it quickly and get you back most of your money.  Likewise, if you can rent it yourself, I would happily change the name to the new renter.

Personally, I like to do business in my personal and professional life with people who go with option 2.  I am no sucker and as a former United States Marine I am no bleeding heart.  I also know that there are a lot of stories out there, but when OP says this happened in 1 out of 113 rentals, I don't think this is an everyday occurrence and a little extra effort is just part of being a decent human being IMO.  You don't have to, you are not required to, you have a contract on your side, etc......but when things go sideways and someone is down and out you aren't willing to make any effort at all to help relieve someone's pain?


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## DeniseM (May 3, 2014)

SCSTWG - I agree completely with your scenario, but most of the time, there is NO emergency.  Here are my actual recent experiences:

-We decided to send our darling teenage daughter to Europe with her girl friend  instead of taking a family vacation - please send me a full refund.

-We booked the wrong dates - please send me a refund.  (This happened 30 min. ago.)

-We didn't check our kids' school calendar, and they start school that week - please send me a refund.

-I just found a better price - please send me a full refund.

In all my rentals, I have only had one true medical reason for a cancellation/change  - the rest were poor planning, with no travel insurance.


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## mjkkb2 (May 3, 2014)

SCSTWG said:


> OP is going above and beyond......agreed.  My reference was to those who are taking to referencing contracts and standing behind phrases like "it's business".  Let's take a scenario.  A couple rents high demand unit from owner and pays in full understanding there are no cancellations. 60 days out they contact you and say their spouse was killed in a car accident and this is verified.  They state that there is no way they can go on vacation and ASK if there is anything you can do?
> 
> Option A:  Sorry for your loss. However you signed an agreement that clearly states there are no cancellations. There is nothing I can do. Sorry, it's just business.
> 
> ...



I Like both of your posts.
thank you for serving!


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## SMHarman (May 3, 2014)

Having led trips with 60 plus people on them, Denise is right about flaky people. We try to sell on trip spots for cancellations but closer to departure that does not always happen. 
I've once got someone about 50% of their money back day of departure but at that point bets are off. 
The ops rental is 15 days out. A tight rental window. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## SCSTWG (May 3, 2014)

Why are you having a much higher percentage of cancellations than OP?  The OP talked about a cancellation due to an unplanned pregnancy followed by a job loss and disability......all of which he has no doubt is true.  In turn many in response said they would do nothing for this renter.  Your scenarios are a completely different animal which amount to negligence, poor planning and stupidity on part of the renter. A valid topic, but not the one we are discussing in this thread.



DeniseM said:


> SCSTWG - I agree completely with your scenario, but most of the time, there is NO emergency.  Here are my actual recent experiences:
> 
> -We decided to send our darling teenage daughter to Europe with her girl friend  instead of taking a family vacation - please send me a full refund.
> 
> ...


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## DeniseM (May 3, 2014)

I don't have a higher percentage - I do a lot of rentals.  

Oh - I didn't answer your question.  The OP has been trying for mos. to re-rent this rental, and hasn't been able to.  Do you want him to eat the loss?


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## Egret1986 (May 3, 2014)

*Call me paranoid, but I believe I'm "the uncaring person" you are referencing.*



SCSTWG said:


> OP is going above and beyond......agreed.  My reference was to those who are taking to referencing contracts and standing behind phrases like "it's business".  Let's take a scenario.  A couple rents high demand unit from owner and pays in full understanding there are no cancellations. 60 days out they contact you and say their spouse was killed in a car accident and this is verified.  They state that there is no way they can go on vacation and ASK if there is anything you can do?
> 
> Option A:  Sorry for your loss. However you signed an agreement that clearly states there are no cancellations. There is nothing I can do. Sorry, it's just business.
> 
> ...



I have to chuckle. :hysterical:

Sounds like someone whose met me or had business dealings with me..  

People that have done business with me know better.   Combined with the hard month of April with some asking or expecting me to take on their personal issues to my personal detriment, I  have chosen to help others where it has meant a few thousand dollars out of my pocket and time out of my day.  Both expenditures could potentially help these two people and may add true quality to their future (in some small way).  

Just today, a person that wanted to rent a week of mine in PCB and had been going back and forth on it  for well over a month finally lost it to someone else.  No rental agreement, no deposit, no info to put on a reservation.  I hadn't heard from her for 10 days.  I don't feel the need to follow up or chase folks down.  I chose to give her a discount when she originally said she wanted to rent it.  When time passed with no communication, I rented the unit to someone else.  I contacted the original person to let her know that it was no longer available as a courtesy.  She sent me a couple of emails and was very upset...."we had an agreement!"  I remained professional, recounted the facts, and apologized for her disappointment.  She said she didn't get my last emails and that was why I hadn't heard from her.

I responded apologetically to both her emails.  I did feel sorry for her.  But it has happened several times in the past.  Some folks don't get it.  I give lots of leeway, but I need to rent my weeks.  Some folks say one thing, don't follow through and you never hear from them again.

The woman who lost out on the rental due to her lack of follow-through and who was so upset with me, called me today to see if there was anything else I could rent to her, that she would pay immediately and had discovered that the week that I was willing to discount for her was $1400 more through the resort before taxes.

I told her all my PCB were unavailable, but I had a nice unit in Orange Beach for a prime week and if she wanted it, I would let her rent it for the same discounted amount.

I guess it's the attitude the person has on the other end.  I go out of my way.  I like good karma and I received it.

There's another thread going on about a deposit and agreement, and a renter wants their full deposit back and has made threats.   The owner said it's not about the money, it's the person's bullying attitude.  Exactly my point.

If I have a solid agreement and I stick to it, this is my only defense against those that would have unreasonable expectations or a sense of entitlement.  Even the agreement isn't much if the person is unreasonable or entitled.  They've done this before and they'll do it again.

I try to be savvy in business in order to choose when and with whom I want to be generous and giving, including those I deal with in business.

Yes, there is Option A and Option B and usually the person and their attitude determine which I use.  

      :hysterical:


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## SCSTWG (May 3, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> I don't have a higher percentage - I do a lot of rentals.
> 
> Oh - I didn't answer your question.  The OP has been trying for mos. to re-rent this rental, and hasn't been able to.  Do you want him to eat the loss?



Of course the OP shouldn't eat the loss.  IMO, he is doing more than enough and his next step is the logical one.....lowering the price.  I actually think he is being too generous.  That said, renting it for less and refunding the lower rental price (perhaps minus a small fee) is very admirable IMO.  As I have stated, I have never cancelled or requested a refund and given my financial position, I don't think I would ever need to. If I was in that spot, I would probably just give it to a friend or relative to enjoy.  Would you consider it too much trouble to call MVCI and change the name on the reservation?  Some in this thread have suggested no transfers/sub-letting.  Hardliners I suppose.......after all, they have a contract agreed to by both parties.


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## DeniseM (May 3, 2014)

One thing you have to understand is that the OP is renting as a small business.  You can't just give away the week, every time the renter doesn't want to proceed.  

The rental business is not for everyone...


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## SCSTWG (May 3, 2014)

By the way, I am not calling out anyone specifically in this thread. I am just taken aback by the majority taking the position that the OP should tell this renter to pound salt.  I get that there are a few here that are dealing in higher volume rentals and conducting it as a business. However, all I am saying is that when a renter has a legitimate hardship and asks for help, I think it is kind to make an effort to help as opposed to citing contract language.  Of course, if they are demanding, threatening, etc., then you reciprocate in kind.  But good people help good people.........and that is usually good for business and whatever lies beyond our time on earth.


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## SCSTWG (May 3, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> One thing you have to understand is that the OP is renting as a small business.  You can't just give away the week, every time the renter doesn't want to proceed.
> 
> The rental business is not for everyone...



I don't own and rent timeshares, but I have owned what most would consider a significant amount of rental property and have seen and heard it all.  That said, renting a primary residence is significantly different than renting a vacation week as much as a year in advance. Owning any form of business is not for most people.  Most people do better with letting someone else worry about everything.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 3, 2014)

SCSTWG said:


> By the way, I am not calling out anyone specifically in this thread. I am just taken aback by the majority taking the position that the OP should tell this renter to pound salt.  I get that there are a few here that are dealing in higher volume rentals and conducting it as a business. However, all I am saying is that when a renter has a legitimate hardship and asks for help, I think it is kind to make an effort to help as opposed to citing contract language.  Of course, if they are demanding, threatening, etc., then you reciprocate in kind.  But good people help good people.........and that is usually good for business and whatever lies beyond our time on earth.



Taken aback? I just adopted 3 kids and I can barely afford it. It's a true story. Will you send me $1k? I really need it. No? I am taken aback. Yes, it is the same thing. I just find this point of view nonsensical. Are you assuming the renter is having a hardship but the landlord isn't? Are you assuming the renter is telling the truth? How would you know? This logic only applies if the renter is personally known, otherwise you are just holding up a sign that says "sucker". I have dealt with this type of thing far too many times to be sympathetic. Fool me twice....


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## SCSTWG (May 3, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> To each their own, but I find this point of view nonsensical. Are you assuming the renter is having a hardship but the landlord isn't? Are you assuming the renter is telling the truth? How would you know? This logic only applies if the renter is personally known, otherwise you are just holding up a sign that says "sucker". I have dealt with this type of thing far too many times to be sympathetic. Fool me twice....



OP clearly stated there is no doubt the issues are legitimate.  The owner/landlord is not having a hardship because they have already been paid.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 3, 2014)

SCSTWG said:


> OP clearly stated there is no doubt the issues are legitimate.  The owner/landlord is not having a hardship because they have already been paid.



You obviously didn't read all the posts. The OP did state that they are struggling financially. The fact that they have been paid is irrelevant. Giving the money back can hurt. Also, the OP is going on the word of the renter. The OP cannot possibly know their story to be facts since they do not personally know the renter. 

It's still irrelevant. I understand you want to be a kind heart but get burned on a few deals and you will quickly change your tune.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 3, 2014)

SCSTWG said:


> The owner/landlord is not having a hardship because they have already been paid.



This statement puts serious doubt in your claim that you have owned a significant amount of rental property.


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## Wally3433 (May 3, 2014)

The story is either ignorance or a lie - neither should be rewarded with a refund.

If you disclose your rental business properly on your tax return, then go with your heart.  Otherwise, why develop a conscience now?


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## SCSTWG (May 3, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> This statement puts serious doubt in your claim that you have owned a significant amount of rental property.



You are right, I made it up to impress you.....lol.  OP is not a sucker and I know the sucker isn't me because I am renting at a cost that would make ownership foolish (including resale). _[Deleted._]


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## dioxide45 (May 4, 2014)

SCSTWG said:


> OP clearly stated there is no doubt the issues are legitimate.  The owner/landlord is not having a hardship because they have already been paid.



We really do not know the OPs financial situation. Just because they have already been paid doesn't mean that money isn't spent.


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## puckmanfl (May 4, 2014)

good morning

scstwg....  TUG is a warm and friendly place.  Often we have differences of opinion.  That is what keeps it fun and interesting.  I am not a moderator, but I feel your comment about those that MVCD sold the unit to in the first place is a bit inappropriate.  

I am a retail purchaser. Yes, Wish I purchased resale but I have still maximized my ownership and stand willing to help others.  There is no need for "name calling" on this site..

please sign up as a member and make helpful contributions...  love to have you on board!!!


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## swditz (May 4, 2014)

SCSTWG said:


> I am a renter, not an owner (by design), so I have a different perspective than some. My preferred way to rent is to get confirmation of the unit being in my name and then to send full payment.  More often than not, there is no rental agreement but well established terms documented in e-mail correspondence.  I have never had to cancel, but if I did, I would contact the seller, explain the situation, and see what my options were.  I would be extremely disappointed and surprised if the owner wouldn't try to re-rent and refund the new rental amount (if less).  Perhaps a small fee for the extra effort.  To take an approach that is unwilling to help is unnecessarily harsh especially when the vast majority of owners are not dependant on this money as a primary source of income.  Then again, I am the type that helps people when I can.  Saying it is "just business" is basically saying you have no sympathy for people who find themselves in a tough spot. Yes, you don't have to be a kind person, but maybe you should try it some time........you just might like it.  There might come a time where you need help from someone (maybe not financial) and that someone may not be required to help you.



sorry but I have tried it sometimes and no I did not always like it! I have no problem helping people. It is however usually help for people I know. Even then it can have bad results. If you find your self in a bad spot certainly it doesn't hurt to ask for relief, but it is not the other persons responsibility to comply. If you feel that is what you need/want to do it then go for it. Don't however feel everyone else should need to do likewise. The fact that people treat business  as business does not make them unsympathetic.


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## Egret1986 (May 4, 2014)

*Wow, you summed things up very well.*



swditz said:


> The fact that people treat business  as business does not make them unsympathetic.



You said a mouthful.


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## jont (May 4, 2014)

This is a great thread and one which I have been following very closely. As a novice in the renting game I have been inspired and gleaned a great deal of info from fellow tuggers such as Joe, Denise and Ron. Although I have never found myself in this situtation, I'm sure I will someday. I think I would do what most people have said so far which is try to help out the renter by re-listing the unit, most likely at a reduced rate. I would also expect the renter to put forth a serious effort to find another renter. Ultimately though I would make it clear to the renter that any loss suffered is theirs and theirs alone. Although I want to be a "nice" guy I would not be willing to sacrifice my own money. After all we all have our own expenses and financial obligations.
 Good luck Joe, I hope this works out for both you and your renter. Please let us know the outcome


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## Egret1986 (May 4, 2014)

*I stated we were never meant to be landlords.*



Egret1986 said:


> The first caused so much damage by the time we were able to get her out that we had to spend a long time and lots of money to get things repaired to get the next tenant in (roof, kitchen, walls, etc).  The last tenant before we finally said "that's it, no more" had to be evicted also for non-payment of rent.  Fortunately, the family did not destroy the property.
> 
> Both these renters had issues and determined that because of their issues that we should take them on.  We should provide them with a place to live and they shouldn't have to pay.
> 
> ...





jont said:


> This is a great thread and one which I have been following very closely. As a novice in the renting game I have been inspired and gleaned a great deal of info from fellow tuggers such as Joe, Denise and Ron. Although I have never found myself in this situtation, I'm sure I will someday. I think I would do what most people have said so far which is try to help out the renter by re-listing the unit, most likely at a reduced rate. I would also expect the renter to put forth a serious effort to find another renter. Ultimately though I would make it clear to the renter that any loss suffered is theirs and theirs alone. Although I want to be a "nice" guy I would not be willing to sacrifice my own money. After all we all have our own expenses and financial obligations.
> Good luck Joe, I hope this works out for both you and your renter. Please let us know the outcome



I don't consider renting timeshares for 7 day periods of time as the same thing.  I've been renting timeshares since 2006.  Most times ezzy pezzy.  Some renters take more effort than others.  I give when I can.  

It's not personal, it's business.  We had a hard time sticking to this mantra and following it.  It was ultimately our undoing.  Many tenants that know you have a weak spot because you've given in before will keep going with it.  No matter what you've done for them, they see it as a weakness that they can manipulate.  It is tough removing a tenant like this, no matter what you may offer to get them out.  

Two stayed until it ran its course.  One of those trashed the place.

I have toughened up over the years and stick more to Agreements.  I had to or there would be no business.  I think most on here that responded similar to me, have been renting for some time and most will make some effort to re-rent the unit and return some funds whether or not they have a cancellation policy of no refund.

If this couple gets their money back, it may  reinforce an idea that is becoming more and more prevalent that a rental agreement is only for the benefit of the renter.  What is the purpose of collecting deposits or full amounts with a signed rental agreement with a no cancellation policy?  It serves no purpose whatsoever.  The agreement is meant to protect both parties.  I've got sunk costs in my unit for rent.  I need to rent it.  The closer it gets to check-in, the more necessary it is to follow the agreement.

Most renters that have "high" expectations of having their money refunded because..............................................(you fill in) aren't willing to make an effort to get it rented.  Most wouldn't know where to start.  I'm their best bet for getting the unit re-rented because this is what I do and I have control over the transaction.  For those that apprise me of their situation and ask me to see what I can do to get it rented, that they understand the agreement says no cancellation and are understanding that there may be no refund at all or a lesser amount than they paid; why wouldn't I try to help out?  Repeat business is the name of the game.  It's the sweet spot.  Usually for both sides.

Good luck, Joe.  You've got a vibe on your renters and experienced folks have chimed in here on TUG.  It will be a good learning experience for you and your business.  Be happy that this is the first time in 113 rentals; second, you're better prepared now for the next time and third, you've got TUG members and guests who are here with opinions, experience and knowledge to help you with this bump.


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## BocaBoy (May 4, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think anyone is suggesting that Joe not try to rerent and refund any amount he can collect from the new renter. He seems to be willing to help the original renter out and no one is faulting him for that.



I think some in this thread are faulting Joe for that.  There seems to be a lot of venom in this thread directed toward the renters (not  from you).  I don't understand this assumption that the renters are bad guys.  They notified Joe months ago of their problem.  He believes them.  As far as I can tell, their "crime" is asking for some consideration of their circumstances.  I did not read that they felt they were entitled to it.  They don't seem to be demanding or antagonistic.  I find nothing wrong with the  way Joe is handling the situation.  I agree that he does not owe them a refund, but what is wrong with trying to help if possible?


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## NboroGirl (May 4, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I think some in this thread are faulting Joe for that.  There seems to be a lot of venom in this thread directed toward the renters (not  from you).  I don't understand this assumption that the renters are bad guys.  They notified Joe months ago of their problem.  He believes them.  As far as I can tell, their "crime" is asking for some consideration of their circumstances.  I did not read that they felt they were entitled to it.  They don't seem to be demanding or antagonistic.  I find nothing wrong with the  way Joe is handling the situation.  I agree that he does not owe them a refund, but what is wrong with trying to help if possible?



Ditto (what BocaBoy said).


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## vacationhopeful (May 4, 2014)

BocaBoy said:


> I think some in this thread are faulting Joe for that.  There seems to be a lot of venom in this thread directed toward the renters (not  from you).  I don't understand this assumption that the renters are bad guys.  They notified Joe months ago of their problem.  He believes them.  As far as I can tell, their "crime" is asking for some consideration of their circumstances.  I did not read that they felt they were entitled to it.  They don't seem to be demanding or antagonistic.  I find nothing wrong with the  way Joe is handling the situation.  I agree that he does not owe them a refund, but what is wrong with trying to help if possible?



BocaBoy,

The problem is our general population has learned to whine - getting (almost) daily phone calls from the renters wanting a refund sent due to their personal degrading financial or medical hardship(s). Joe set about trying to re-rent the unit and I suspect he invested MORE money to advertise to get a new client. He knows he will have to lower the rent and continue trying - he is doing WHAT he can. But it may NOT HAPPEN. He will be out money for the new advertising costs and for his MFs not fully paid via the money from the first clients.

Joe, getting messages or talking on the phone, is using part of his day to reassure this woman EVERYDAY that he is trying to re-rent his unit. How much time is lost? This is stress on Joe - just like a 8 yo asking can "they please just have ONE MORE COOKIE?" Again and again.

I read OP's first post as to reaffirm his position --- Joe knew what to do. Was he being reasonable? He has been trying to re-rent the unit. Yes ... he is still out (some) of his MFs and advertising costs not covered by payment he has received to date. He may or may NOT get it re-rented. 

I have started similar threads here on TUG ...to re-affirm my position or if I am "wrong" on my point of view.


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## MOXJO7282 (May 4, 2014)

I think most if in my shoes would try to help this couple because although they made the ultimate mistake by not buying the insurance all this was bad timing and bad luck for them and I wouldn't feel right profiting when someone else is struggling. 

I was able to independently confirm what they're telling me was unexpected on both counts, the troubled pregnancy and the husband losing his job.  

To answer the obvious question, this couple I met through a frequent renter who I'd almost consider a friend.  They're co-workers and he wouldn't have a reason to lie for them so I'm 99% sure this couple is being truthful about their misfortune. 

Under these circumstances I wish I could return all their money but returning any refund won't be fun under my current finances. I'm lucky to have a fair amount of income but I have an equal amount of debt so its a balancing act as I'm sure many can appreciate.

As it stands now I'm only refunding funds if I get something beyond this point so I'm not sure what if anything they will be getting.


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## DeniseM (May 4, 2014)

Joe - I think you have gone above and beyond with your renters.   It is unreasonable for your renters to expect you to finance their poor planning (no travel insurance) no matter how nice they are about it.  When you are in the rental business, you simply cannot afford to shoulder other peoples poor financial decision making, nor should you feel bad about it.


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## Beefnot (May 4, 2014)

I have done many in my relatively short side career, and I have had probably five or so cancellation attempts. In all cases, I have been very polite but firm upholding the terms, although on a couple of occasions I did refund what I could (e.g., I was able to re-rent). In the OP's case, they may want to establish, and enforce, an even longer cancellation window if they decide that they want to shoulder less risk.


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## benyu2010 (May 5, 2014)

Joe,

I totally agreed with your thinking and you have done all you can at the moment. I just hope that unit gets rented in the end, and more or less a happy happy ending for both parties after exhaustive efforts, it has probably consumed a lot of your time and energy... Good luck


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## Saintsfanfl (May 5, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> To answer the obvious question, this couple I met through a frequent renter who I'd almost consider a friend.  They're co-workers and he wouldn't have a reason to lie for them so I'm 99% sure this couple is being truthful about their misfortune.



This changes things quite a bit. An unknown is one thing but having a mutually known customer or "friend" adds a wrinkle. Good relationships are hard to find and should be protected. Hopefully it works out for both sides.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 5, 2014)

I once arranged for a rental from a well-known & well-liked (deservedly so in my book) Tugger. Got a great place for a very fair price.

Then, my Mum with advanced Alzheimer's took one of her sudden & seemingly never-ending downward spirals.

I explained the situation to this Tugger who was supportive. He tried very, very hard to work out various options for me, but due to Mum's condition and other obligations I had (law school) , I just could not find a good date. He even went so far as to find other dates, but still, they did not work. He did this a few times, too, trying to find other places and dates. Wow !

I never asked for money back as I owned this, period. Sometimes, you just have to own your losses. Maybe it's my generation. I don't know.

This wonderful Tugger,* Djyamyam *(great guy) went out of his way for me, bent over backwards and I appreciate it to this day, but in the end, it was a business deal that I could not uphold my end of and there were no legal or ethical reasons for a refund, nor did would I ask. He is a pleasure to deal with and I'd do business with him any day of the week (and twice on Sunday) because of it.

Just my story and I commend the OP for his empathy and going the extra mile. 


-


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## MOXJO7282 (May 19, 2014)

So the first offer since I've re-listed has come in. Not a ridiculously low ball offer a tad under MF, but one I wasn't willing to accept at this point.  I think an offer like that will be there at 30 days so I'm taking a chance. 

I'm kinda of gambling with the first renters money but I think I have 2 weeks before I have to accept an offer this low and I'm trying to get us much as I can for first renter and perhaps make me close to whole.


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## PamMo (May 19, 2014)

Joe, you are so nice. I don't think you're gambling with your ex-renter's money. You are trying to make the best financial decision based on available information, your knowledge and experience.

I'm taking a guess where this rental is located, and maybe this will help? When renting my summer OF and OV units in Hawaii the last two years, they were either booked around the 10-month mark - or 2 months out. I just rented my last week at the 65-day mark, at full price. I had several "legitimate" inquiries the same week. I delusionally started thinking about buying more weeks!  Hang in there - and good luck!


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## SCSTWG (May 19, 2014)

You really have gone above and beyond.  Your renters are very fortunate to be dealing with someone so kind.


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## LisaH (May 19, 2014)

PamMo said:


> Joe, you are so nice. I don't think you're gambling with your ex-renter's money. You are trying to make the best financial decision based on available information, your knowledge and experience.
> 
> I'm taking a guess where this rental is located, and maybe this will help? When renting my summer OF and OV units in Hawaii the last two years, they were either booked around the 10-month mark - or 2 months out. I just rented my last week at the 65-day mark, at full price. I had several "legitimate" inquiries the same week. I delusionally started thinking about buying more weeks!  Hang in there - and good luck!



where are you listing? Redweek?


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## MOXJO7282 (May 19, 2014)

LisaH said:


> where are you listing? Redweek?


Yes Redweek, but also I have an ebay listing and also Flipkey.


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## pacheco18 (May 21, 2014)

it's a contract
Binding on the owner and the renter.
Stick to the terms agreed upon.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 21, 2014)

pacheco18 said:


> it's a contract
> Binding on the owner and the renter.
> Stick to the terms agreed upon.



It's not always that simple. If you know a renter cannot go, you can't rent it out again and keep both monies. At least not legitimately. It would also not be ethical to sit and not even try to rent it out. It's a bad idea to include this wording in the contract so it should be done outside of the formal agreement if a renter cannot go.


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## pacheco18 (May 21, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> It's not always that simple. If you know a renter cannot go, you can't rent it out again and keep both monies. At least not legitimately. It would also not be ethical to sit and not even try to rent it out. It's a bad idea to include this wording in the contract so it should be done outside of the formal agreement if a renter cannot go.



I'm am attorney
It is that simple to me.

The renters rented early at a coveted resort at a coveted time -- got what they wanted -- the owner got a renter in place (what he wanted).  That is the bargain.  The contract makes clear what the penalty for cancellation is.  It should be strictly adhered to.  That's why we have contracts if we rent.  Takes the uncertainty out of the deal.  Why would anyone want to insert uncertainty into the bargain?

There is no emotion involved in contracts.  The terms govern.  Very simple.

Let me put it another way
Suppose the OP decided he wanted to use the unit himself.  Could he call the renter and say sorry -- we have a family issue and we really need to go the resort -- here's your money back?  Of course not.  And what if the renter had paid for flights?

That's why we have contracts.


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## Beefnot (May 21, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> It's not always that simple. If you know a renter cannot go, you can't rent it out again and keep both monies. At least not legitimately. It would also not be ethical to sit and not even try to rent it out. It's a bad idea to include this wording in the contract so it should be done outside of the formal agreement if a renter cannot go.


 
If the contract calls for forfeiture of some or all monies upon notification of cancellation, then a renter can re-rent and keep both monies.


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## MOXJO7282 (May 21, 2014)

Contracts should be black and white and I think in this case in terms of what was agreed to it is but life isn't black and white and I choose to try to have some understanding because I would want the same if the roles were reversed.

With that said I also need to look after my family so the latest I've offered to the renter is anything I get from this point on they will get.  

Not really sure what I will get if anything because very surprised haven't gotten a solid offer since I relisted a few months ago now.  I turned down $1500 because I just didn't think I should accept so low an offer yet but if another doesn't materialize they won't get any money back.

I've already received payments to at least cover MFs and a few pennies more so I'm ok with basically making no profit if it means helping out someone in need. 

I'll keep everyone posted. The clock is ticking to find a legit renter as opposed to someone who just wants to pay 50% MF.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 21, 2014)

Beefnot said:


> If the contract calls for forfeiture of some or all monies upon notification of cancellation, then a renter can re-rent and keep both monies.



No, that would actually be illegal. I believe collecting double rent is illegal in most if not all states. Here is an excerpt from the Florida tenant rights:



> However, the landlord has a duty to try to rent your unit to someone else. The landlord
> cannot collect double rent, so when a new person signs a lease, your obligation to pay rent
> will end.


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## Beefnot (May 21, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> No, that would actually be illegal. I believe collecting double rent is illegal in most if not all states. Here is an excerpt from the Florida tenant rights:


 
But I challenge that. The full text reads below. I would argue that, at minimum, it depends on how the agreement is written. In the case of a short-term vacation rental, the rental amount (or some portion thereof) is also the deposit, either implicitly or explicitly if written into the agreement. Also, I do not define a short-term rental as a lease. It is a rental agreement. A lease is a long-term arrangement between tenant and landlord.



> If you want to break your lease by leaving early, you can move out, _[FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]but [/FONT][/FONT]_you may lose your deposit. You may also be responsible for rent or an amount specified in your written lease, like an "early termination fee" or liquidated damages. That amount does not include lost rent the landlord also may be entitled to collect. If the lease does not say anything, you may still be responsible for the rent after you move out. However, the landlord has a duty to try to rent your unit to someone else. The landlord cannot collect double rent, so when a new person signs a lease, your obligation to pay rent will end. The best thing to do is try to negotiate with your landlord for a release or buy-out from the lease agreement, and get this agreement in writing and signed by both you and the landlord.


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## SMHarman (May 21, 2014)

Huh, rent and lease in this use are synonyms, even used interchangebly in the quote you used.



> You may also be responsible for *rent *or an amount specified in your written *lease*


Would a rental have rental payments and a lease have lease payments.  Or do you sign a lease and then pay your rent?

On a building lease or something similar when you basically take mid-term ownership you have a point, say a company leases a building for 20 years and as part of that lease is also responsible for maintaining the building fabric (roof, walls, car park).

A one week lease, a 30 day lease or a 2 year lease are all leases or rents however you look at it.


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## Beefnot (May 21, 2014)

"Rent" and "lease" are not necessarily synonyms.  In that sentence, rent is the payment, lease is the written agreement.  Also, I cannot speak legalese, but the definition of rental agreement vs. lease can differ. 

So a question: In the Shell system, if I cancel a points rental within 14 days of check-in, the full amount is non-refundable.  I presume something like that exists with II and RCI for that matter.  If they are able to re-rent it out, are they required to refund me the amount that I had forfeited?


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## Saintsfanfl (May 21, 2014)

The length of the lease term has absolutely no bearing on the legality of collecting rent from multiple parties for the same days. It simply isn't legal. A deposit also has no bearing because by definition a deposit is to be returned if rent is not owed. Non refundable administrative expenses would need to be stated but like I said I think it's best to leave this stuff out and deal with the issues as they come up.

There is nothing wrong with non-refundable prepayments. But, if the unit is re-rented to someone else, you cannot "legally" keep all of the money.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 21, 2014)

Beefnot said:


> So a question: In the Shell system, if I cancel a points rental within 14 days of check-in, the full amount is non-refundable.  I presume something like that exists with II and RCI for that matter.  If they are able to re-rent it out, are they required to refund me the amount that I had forfeited?



You could be owed a refund with a reservation system but how would you ever know? If they had even one unit not occupied it would be labeled yours and no refund would be owed.

With II and RCI it is probably different because they are charging exchange fees. The unit itself is already paid for.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 21, 2014)

Collecting rent from multiple people has come up many times in the legal system. Every state has different technical aspects of their tenant / landlord laws but all have some type of measure in place to prevent landlords from taking advantage of collecting multiple rents for the same space and time periods. Some things are allowed, especially when the landlord has management burdens of preparing the space. A timeshare landlord has almost no burden since we don't even manage the property.


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## SMHarman (May 21, 2014)

Beefnot said:


> "Rent" and "lease" are not necessarily synonyms.  In that sentence, rent is the payment, lease is the written agreement.  Also, I cannot speak legalese, but the definition of rental agreement vs. lease can differ.
> 
> So a question: In the Shell system, if I cancel a points rental within 14 days of check-in, the full amount is non-refundable.  I presume something like that exists with II and RCI for that matter.  If they are able to re-rent it out, are they required to refund me the amount that I had forfeited?



In such a situation you hit the last room conundrum, unless the destination is 100% full then it is your room that is not rented.  So they do rent it then you likely have a claim against them for financial betterment.
Many systems get around this by returning restricted points (e.g. Starwood) that can only be used for booking space at close in dates.


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## travelplus (May 21, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> So a renter whose paid me $1700 of $2425 for a high demand week contacted me several months ago and says they're pregnant and its a little problematic and they were told they couldn't travel so they wanted a refund. They weren't smart enough to get travel insurance.
> 
> My rental agreements do say in fine print if you need to cancel for any reason I will re-list an IF I can get your money back I will give a full refund but it clearly states there is no guarantee.
> 
> ...



I feel for you and I'm so sorry you are  in this dilemma. If I may try and help you then here it goes.

Let's say you booked a Hotel on Hotwire and it says there are absolutely no refunds period and you did not buy trip insurance well then tough luck. The same goes for your renter you clearly spelled out the rules. While she is pregnant and her husband is out of work I'm sorry but if you know you may get pregnant and your husband's job may be on the line then who could be so dumb to not buy travel insurance?

I think you are being too easy to refund them money and be  $400 below the MF. You need to hold to your word as the renter did not purchase trip insurance. Let's say I was on a vacation and got injured and had no trip insurance well that was my mistake and not the vendor's.

I would advise your future renters that its their responsibility to purchase Travel Insurance that covers pre-existing conditions and if they fail to do so you are not responsible.  If you can't find a renter you should keep the money. If you do find a renter then refund the money. It's not your fault that these circumstances took place. Well as they say ship happens. 

My point is what if you rented a week and had no insurance and the people you were renting it from did not return your money would you expect them to if it clearly sates in the contract that if you cancel and can't find a renter no refund will be issued. 

I would stick to your original contract and not give them any refund. Perhaps you can give them a credit where they can use a week at a later date but thats being a bit too nice.

Hope my advice helps you in your situation.


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## travelplus (May 21, 2014)

Egret1986 said:


> someone has tried to put their issues on my shoulders.  Business is simply business.  I will always do more than is required when someone needs to cancel.  But after this past month and getting this from unexpected sources, I've had to toughen up.  My rental agreement has always stated no cancellation, but that if another suitable renter is found, a refund will be provided less a $125-$200 administrative fee based on what was rented. Everyone has a "story"; true or otherwise.  I don't try to lay my personal issues on others when its a business deal.  It should not come into play period.  I am fed up with this.  My husband says I'm too nice.  I prefer to be nice and help out, but it will eventually suck you dry.  It's ridiculous how bad it has gotten.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree there is a time and place for Business and Family.  Even if I were to rent an apartment to a relative am I going to be nice when their bill comes late all the time? Heck no but just because your family does not mean you will be treated extra special. If there was something really bad such as the death of their Father or Mother then ok I of course will take it into consideration and do the best that I can.

I love Family but when its comes to business sometimes its best to keep it separate. 

In business you have to be feisty. When you made up a contract then don't go easy and allow your renters to pay you late. Why do you think there is a contract? If you have to evict them so be it. One day your renter will come to you and say "My car got broken into last night"  the next excuse will be"I just lost my job so can I pay you 20 days late for no interest"? Sorry but this is just part of living.  

How do you think Donald Trump makes millions? By sticking to his word. You  have a contract and if you change it or are shifty then you can lose tons of money.


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## Beefnot (May 21, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> The length of the lease term has absolutely no bearing on the legality of collecting rent from multiple parties for the same days. It simply isn't legal. A deposit also has no bearing because by definition a deposit is to be returned if rent is not owed. Non refundable administrative expenses would need to be stated but like I said I think it's best to leave this stuff out and deal with the issues as they come up.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with non-refundable prepayments. But, if the unit is re-rented to someone else, you cannot "legally" keep all of the money.


 
I am definitely not in a position to competently debate the legality of the issue, however there are at least two established vacation rental sites with which I'm familiar that have zero requirement for monies to be refunded if a cancellation is re-rented to another party. I know this for a fact, because with one of these sites I did just that.

I also found an information site that suggests refunding non-refundable monies on a vacation rental cancellation when another renter is found to be good relationship practice, but not once mentions a legal requirement to do so. This leads me to believe that (at least other than Florida?) traditional Landlord/Tenant law is not as cut and dried when applied to short term vacation rentals.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 5, 2014)

So the end result is after running 2 ebay auctions and getting nothing I received an offer for $1500 from my RW ad just tonight which I accepted.  I also had received another at $1300 last week that I reluctantly rejected so I'm glad this one came in or I would have really felt bad.

I decided to give back $1000 so they ended up losing $700 and I ended up bringing in $2200 minus additional advertising so I probably ended up $300+ short of my original deal that was agreed at $2425.

All in all I learned a lesson for the experience that I won't allow to happen again and it didn't cost me too much. I was also able to help out someone who needed it. Believe me the relief that I heard from them over the phone that they were at least getting back $1000 was worth the hit I took. The woman was actually in tears so either she was a good faker or it was heart felt. I choose to believe the latter.


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## LisaH (Jun 6, 2014)

You are a good man! I'm sure they appreciate your effort and conduct.


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## Chrispee (Jun 6, 2014)

although it sounds like i'm in the minority, i think you did the right thing.  it sounds like you went through a bit of extra work, but you can hold your head high knowing you did all that you could in the circumstance.


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## Aviator621 (Jun 6, 2014)

Joe, wish there were more people like you in this world. You had every moral and legal right to just keep the money, but you didn't, and you helped a fellow man. Bravo for doing a good thing.


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## GregT (Jun 6, 2014)

Joe,

I'm glad this ended well for both you and the renter -- they are lucky you were the counter-party and your conscience is clear.   You were very fair to them and helped them when they put themselves into a tough spot.

Now, go enjoy your next vacation!

Best,

Greg


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 6, 2014)

GregT said:


> Joe,
> 
> I'm glad this ended well for both you and the renter -- they are lucky you were the counter-party and your conscience is clear.   You were very fair to them and helped them when they put themselves into a tough spot.
> 
> ...



Now I can enjoy our next Maui trip in a few weeks.  I would have been very disappointed had this not worked out because I was giving back at least $700 and if I hadn't rented I would've have been out $700. 

Some probably think with my portfolio I'm doing very well financially, but the truth is I'm just a hard-working middle class guy with a disabled wife (Lupus) and daughter in college and son close to that who stumbled into this Marriott use/rent model that is working even beyond my initial dreams but the loss would have hurt significantly so I'm glad it worked out for both sides as I was just doing what I'd hope someone would do for me if I were in a tough spot.

Its the power of Marriott and Redweek that always gets it done for me.


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## jont (Jun 6, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> So the end result is after running 2 ebay auctions and getting nothing I received an offer for $1500 from my RW ad just tonight which I accepted.  I also had received another at $1300 last week that I reluctantly rejected so I'm glad this one came in or I would have really felt bad.
> 
> I decided to give back $1000 so they ended up losing $700 and I ended up bringing in $2200 minus additional advertising so I probably ended up $300+ short of my original deal that was agreed at $2425.
> 
> All in all I learned a lesson for the experience that I won't allow to happen again and it didn't cost me too much. I was also able to help out someone who needed it. Believe me the relief that I heard from them over the phone that they were at least getting back $1000 was worth the hit I took. The woman was actually in tears so either she was a good faker or it was heart felt. I choose to believe the latter.



Glad it worked out for you Joe, at the end of the day you did the right thing. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Enjoy your trip to Maui


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 6, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Some probably think with my portfolio ......



Since I am not a Marriott owner I don't always pay attention/track what Marriott's people own, I know the Hilton and Wyndham crowd.

But I must say that is  a serious Marriott collection...
Maui MOC 2BD OF(2)OV(2),Myrt Bch MOW Pl OF(2),Grande Ocean Gold OF(2),Kauai Bch 2BD OV,Newp Bch CA Pl(2),Monarch w40,Bos


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## PamMo (Jun 6, 2014)

Thanks for the update, Joe. I think this thread has been valuable to a lot of landlords and renters here on TUG. It has reminded everyone to be very, very clear on rental refund policies. I know I've made an extra effort to be absolutely certain that my customers understand my refund policy when we discuss a rental, and I now bold that section in my rental agreements. I used to mention travel insurance, but have added that recommendation to my contract.

I'm glad you came up with an amicable solution. You have handled this situation with a lot of grace.


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## Michigan Czar (Jun 8, 2014)

Joe, you are a great man! Enjoy your vacation in Maui.


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## GaryDouglas (Jun 8, 2014)

In LinkedIn,, you'll have to add Property Management...




Sandy VDH said:


> Since I am not a Marriott owner I don't always pay attention/track what Marriott's people own, I know the Hilton and Wyndham crowd.
> 
> But I must say that is  a serious Marriott collection...
> Maui MOC 2BD OF(2)OV(2),Myrt Bch MOW Pl OF(2),Grande Ocean Gold OF(2),Kauai Bch 2BD OV,Newp Bch CA Pl(2),Monarch w40,Bos


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## taffy19 (Jun 8, 2014)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Now I can enjoy our next Maui trip in a few weeks. I would have been very disappointed had this not worked out because I was giving back at least $700 and if I hadn't rented I would've have been out $700.
> 
> Some probably think with my portfolio I'm doing very well financially, but the truth is I'm just a hard-working middle class guy with a disabled wife (Lupus) and daughter in college and son close to that who stumbled into this Marriott use/rent model that is working even beyond my initial dreams but the loss would have hurt significantly so I'm glad it worked out for both sides as I was just doing what I'd hope someone would do for me if I were in a tough spot.
> 
> Its the power of Marriott and Redweek that always gets it done for me.


I am so glad that it worked out well for you and the renters. You were very kind to them and what goes around comes around (good karma), I hope.

Enjoy your vacation at one of your favorite resorts!

I put my hat off to you to make this a successful home-based business and have your long vacations at your favorite locations all in place for when you retire. Smart thinking.


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