# Engineered Hardwood floor popping



## Teresa (Sep 26, 2009)

THIS IS A WARNING for those who are thinking about doing this.

We installed pre-engineered hardwood flooring over concrete with glue specifically designed for this.   About a month after we installed, one spot - and then a second spot a week later - starting 'popping' after stepping on it.   Step on it, remove your foot and a 'pop'.   At first this was a soft pop and now it's pretty loud.

Did some research.   Seems this has been a problem since at least 2002 (maybe when pre-engineered flooring became popular?).   A company has even developed a kit to fix this specific thing.    

Most of the mentions I found of this were people complaining that the contractor who had put their floor in just said, 'that's the way it is'.  Some said it was the humidity.   Some did come back and fix (the complaintants didn't say how).   Some 'experts' said it was because the boards hadn't been acclimated enough (not in our case).

To install pre-engrd hardwood over concrete you notch-trowel on the glue, lay down the flooring and then roll it (per the instructions) with a 100 lb. roller for floors (I think this is what creates the problem - but I wouldn't recommend not doing it).   If there is ANY variation in the floor surface (concrete in our case) the wood will lift to be 'straight' (the way it was engineered) and separate from the glue - in our case about a month later.  I'm guessing the pop is coming from the board hitting the glue and sticking to it while your foot is on it and then it becomes unstuck when you take your foot off.  The 'fix kit' involves a syringe, drilling holes (small) and a quart of 'filler/adhesive' (f/a).   Drill the hole, fill the syringe with the f/a and squirt it between the wood and concrete.  Fill the hole with wood putty.  The f/a is supposed to fill the void and so the wood won't move anymore (thus no chance to pop).  I think (grin).  Kit costs $60 (haven't found it in local stores - this is the price on the internet).  Have no clue if it will work or if a quart is for one spot or two or more.

LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKE.   Consider this a word of warning if you are considering gluing down a pre-engineered hardwood floor.   In all my research of what I could put on a concrete floor this 'issue' never came up on any pre-engineered hardwood installation info places.   I'm going to say all the instructions said to make sure the floor was level but, heck, they say the same thing about putting down ceramic tile too.   No mention of what would happen if it wasn't (not that I'm blaming the instructions).  We did NOT take a level around the room and check for small dips.  We couldn't feel any when we walked the room.   We're thinking this is about 1/16" based on how much we see the board move.  That floor was so smooth and nice.  No nicks or anything.  Had previously been glued down tile from the 1950's (easily removed).  The only areas with problems are doorways so the floor must be just worn down there.

Next time (there may not be a next time) I guess we'll throw some water down and see if there are puddles.

Hope this helps someone.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 26, 2009)

Teresa said:


> THIS IS A WARNING for those who are thinking about doing this.
> 
> We installed pre-engineered hardwood flooring over concrete with glue specifically designed for this.   About a month after we installed, one spot - and then a second spot a week later - starting 'popping' after stepping on it.   Step on it, remove your foot and a 'pop'.   At first this was a soft pop and now it's pretty loud.
> 
> ...


You make no mention of applying a layer of self-leveling mortar to the concrete before placing the floor down. The purpose of the self-leveling mortar is to eliminate those types of dips and unevenness in the floor. When I've installed laminate the instructions have been very clear that the self-leveling mortar application is one of the necessary steps.


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## Patri (Sep 26, 2009)

Would this be the same as floating hardwood? Friends did it on the main floor and it wasn't level either. Now the floor rolls in that section. They said they should have laid a shingle in the low spot.


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## ScoopKona (Sep 26, 2009)

+1 for floor leveler.

Mix it to the consistency of cake batter and pour it on the low spots.

If your concrete floor has high spots, they have to be ground down.

Prepping the subfloor is 99% of a good installation job.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 26, 2009)

ScoopLV said:


> If your concrete floor has high spots, they have to be ground down.
> 
> Prepping the subfloor is 99% of a good installation job.



Or you place battens that allow you to create a level surface with the self-leveling mortar.

I adjust the consistency of the self-leveling mix for the requirements of the job. If the job requires a truly flat surface, then I use a thin mix that will flow to create a perfectly level surface. But when I'm only trying to partially fill in some low spots to reduce the maximum slopes, then I use a stiffer mix that doesn't flow and I use a large (36-inch minimum) float to smooth the surface just as the mortar starts to set.  I've found that to be a pretty easy way to handle flooring irregularities in prep for installing a *floating* floor, which does not require a perfectly flat surface.

You can get away with a surface that isn't perfectly level if there is an underlayment below the laminate, i.e., if it's a floating floor.  But if you glue to the underlayment (i.e., it's not a "floating floor") then you need a surface that is perfectly flat.  It doesn't have to be level, but it must be flat.

Laminate and similar engineered wood products are not like ceramic tile that way. You can lay ceramic on a surface that has minor bumps and depressions by controlling the depth of the mastic and by letting the joints between the tiles accommodate the irregularities.  With a adhesive bonded interlocking flooring, such as glued tongue-and-groove laminate, you don't have that flexibility.


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## Andy Mc'See (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re:*

Dear Teresa, after reading your post I've done some research on how to install engineered hardwood flooring as I plan to redecorate my living room and I found this really interesting and comprehensible video on how to do the job right: http://www.youtube.com/user/Theflooring . For all those interested in engineered hardwood floors, hope this helps.


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## wackymother (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm confronting the problem of what kind of flooring to put over a basement concrete slab. The floor is pitted and way off level and, although there's no moisture coming up off the slab now, that could always change. 

I'm coming to the conclusion that carpet tiles are really my only realistic choice in flooring down there. Even prepping the floor to be painted would be quite an effort, since there's old paint on there and the floor is so pitted. 

Any suggestions? I thought of epoxy paint, the kind they make for garages, but the prep would be the same as for painting, I think.


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## Rose Pink (Oct 5, 2009)

I've seen some beautiful stained concrete floors.  The pitting just adds to the charm.  Not an easy process and I would hire a professional if it were me.  Done right, they look like beautful stone.

I was discussing basement floors with a friend the other day and she said she used cork planks.  I'm thinking this installation would be similar to putting down engineered wood or laminates.  Although the cork is a natural product, it is the backing that you need to worry about as far as moisture is concerned.  She said the cork is quiet, warm and forgiving.  Again, that is just the cork--the backing may be another matter.


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