# SPG Hotel Catagory Changes



## DavidnRobin (Feb 22, 2011)

see FlyerTalk thread for 2011 SPG hotel changes.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...annual-hotel-category-adjustments-2011-a.html

WKORV is changing from Cat 5 to Cat 6


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## YYJMSP (Feb 22, 2011)

If you're using SPG points for hotel reservations:

Remember to book *before* Mar 1st for any property that is *going up* in value, to make sure you get in at the old lower rate for any 2011 date.

Remember to book *after* Mar 1st for any property that is *going down* in value, to make sure you get in at the new lower rate for any 2011 date.


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## K&PFitz (Feb 23, 2011)

I see a good deal.  Four Points Chicago is going from a 4 to a 3.  I much prefer this hotel to the Sheraton on the river, or the other Starwoods.  But usually when I want to go to Chicago, it's full.  Friendly and efficient staff, and good location.


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## spuppy (Feb 23, 2011)

I found these changes interesting:

Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas from 5 to 6
Westin River Front Mountain Villas from 4 to 5
Sheraton Steamboat Resort Villas from 4 to 6


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## gravitar (Feb 23, 2011)

Starwood's yearly categories and their changes are based on the average daily rate charged during the prior year at the properties


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## jnsywg (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks for this, I just booked WKORV for January 2011 using SPG points. It is going to be hard for us to earn enough points for future years.



YYJMSP said:


> If you're using SPG points for hotel reservations:
> 
> Remember to book *before* Mar 1st for any property that is *going up* in value, to make sure you get in at the old lower rate for any 2011 date.
> 
> Remember to book *after* Mar 1st for any property that is *going down* in value, to make sure you get in at the new lower rate for any 2011 date.


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## YYJMSP (Feb 23, 2011)

jnsywg said:


> Thanks for this, I just booked WKORV for January 2011 using SPG points. It is going to be hard for us to earn enough points for future years.



I assume you meant January 2012.

How's the weather in Winterpeg?  We've actually accumulated 30cm+ of snow today (with forecast for that much more tonight) in Victoria.  Makes we wish we were heading somewhere warm and sunny right about now...


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## pianodinosaur (Feb 23, 2011)

DavidnRobin said:


> see FlyerTalk thread for 2011 SPG hotel changes.
> http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...annual-hotel-category-adjustments-2011-a.html
> 
> WKORV is changing from Cat 5 to Cat 6



Thank you for the information.  I have now acculated over 80,000 spg points through starwood preferred.  We will be planning a redemption in the next year.


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## LisaRex (Feb 23, 2011)

So....for the 80,000 SPs they'll give a 2 bdrm owner for converting their WKORV TS to SPS, one could turn around and book 2 nights or less in a 1 bdrm for the same place?

Category 6 20-25,000 per night + 20,000 points for a suite upgrade


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 24, 2011)

Hard to find a better bargain... and if you are 5* you get 10% more. :0
please sir! - may I have another!


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## J&JFamily (Feb 24, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> So....for the 80,000 SPs they'll give a 2 bdrm owner for converting their WKORV TS to SPS, one could turn around and book 2 nights or less in a 1 bdrm for the same place?
> 
> Category 6 20-25,000 per night + 20,000 points for a suite upgrade



YES!!!  It really is embarrassing that they advertise the receipt of SPG points as a perk for buying from the developer.


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## YYJMSP (Feb 24, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> So....for the 80,000 SPs they'll give a 2 bdrm owner for converting their WKORV TS to SPS, one could turn around and book 2 nights or less in a 1 bdrm for the same place?



I'm pretty sure that there is a rule that you can't use SO to SPG point conversion to book back at the original property...


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## YYJMSP (Feb 24, 2011)

J&JFamily said:


> YES!!!  It really is embarrassing that they advertise the receipt of SPG points as a perk for buying from the developer.



The best value of using SPG points is outside North America, and with booking "Specialty Select" rooms instead of a normal room -- quite often, you'll get a REALLY nice room or even suite for just an extra 1000-2500 points/night over the standard room.


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## sail27bill (Feb 24, 2011)

David--thanks for the link.  There were two properties I was looking to stay at using SPG points so it was really helpful.  FWIW--I noticed that there seems to be more places now using the cash and points feature.  This has given me the most bang for my buck in the past, so I hope this new trend continues.  

Anita


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 24, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> I'm pretty sure that there is a rule that you can't use SO to SPG point conversion to book back at the original property...



LisaRex was indirectly saying {sarcasm alert} - who in their right mind would want to?
2+ nites with 148.1K SO to SP conversion of 80K SPs vesus 7-14 nites no SO conversion of 148.1K SOs

Why would there be a rule? SVO/SVN wins in this scenerio.
(actually it is a win-win, but that is another thread...)


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## BluEyezNSC (Feb 24, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> Category 6 20-25,000 per night + 20,000 points for a suite upgrade



My question is: If a property will now be considered a Cat 6 but only has 2 and 3 BR units (Sheraton Steamboat Villas, where I own ski season, but only every odd year) would that be considered a "suite upgrade" for points redemption purposes? Does anyone know the answer? Thanks in advance!


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## YYJMSP (Feb 24, 2011)

DavidnRobin said:


> LisaRex was indirectly saying {sarcasm alert} - who in their right mind would want to?
> 2+ nites with 148.1K SO to SP conversion of 80K SPs vesus 7-14 nites no SO conversion of 148.1K SOs



Agreed, it makes absolutely no sense to do this...



DavidnRobin said:


> Why would there be a rule? SVO/SVN wins in this scenerio.
> (actually it is a win-win, but that is another thread...)



Really, there is a rule.  You are not allowed to convert your SOs to SPG points and then turn around and use those same points at the property you converted from.

There's a thread somewhere that discussed it -- I think the original thread topic was about how they track when points expire or something like that.


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## YYJMSP (Feb 24, 2011)

BluEyezNSC said:


> My question is: If a property will now be considered a Cat 6 but only has 2 and 3 BR units (Sheraton Steamboat Villas, where I own ski season, but only every odd year) would that be considered a "suite upgrade" for points redemption purposes? Does anyone know the answer? Thanks in advance!



Yup.  You would pay double SPG points for a 1BR suite, and even more (if they let you) for a 2BR or 3BR.

For example, WKORV is (was?) available for SPG booking for 12K SPG points for a studio, 24K SPG points for a 1BR, or 36K SPG points for a 2BR.  This is PER NIGHT.  So, a 2BR for a week would be 216K SPG points (the 5th night is free), while the unit would only convert to 80K SPG points.

The site listing all of the properties is at http://www.starwoodpreviews.com/svospg/


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## LisaRex (Feb 24, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Really, there is a rule.  You are not allowed to convert your SOs to SPG points and then turn around and use those same points at the property you converted from.



I'll back you on this. I recall seeing this very rule a few months ago.  Trouble is, despite looking for it on both MSC and SPG.com, I can't find it anymore.  Converted points also expire after 6 years.  How SPG keeps track of all this is beyond me.  

However, David was correct that I was merely pointing out the imbalance of SPs received for converting vs. SPs needed to book a stay.  It's one of the things that makes buying from the developer look even more absurd, especially at a mandatory resort such as WKORV.


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## LisaRex (Feb 24, 2011)

BluEyezNSC said:


> My question is: If a property will now be considered a Cat 6 but only has 2 and 3 BR units (Sheraton Steamboat Villas, where I own ski season, but only every odd year) would that be considered a "suite upgrade" for points redemption purposes? Does anyone know the answer? Thanks in advance!



As YYJMSP explained, yes, it would be considered a suite upgrade.  It's  explained on SPG.com: 

"Starpoint rates listed and no blackout dates are for standard rooms only (as defined by each property). Upgraded rooms, including upgrades based on size, view, services, suites, are available at a higher Starpoint cost, as determined by each property, and must be booked through your local customer contact center."


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## YYJMSP (Feb 24, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> I'll back you on this. I recall seeing this very rule a few months ago.  Trouble is, despite looking for it on both MSC and SPG.com, I can't find it anymore.



It says in the terms and conditions from the site I posted:

_Starpoints acquired through conversion of a vacation ownership interest may not be redeemed at a Starwood villa resorts _

I'm sure I've see it somewhere else as well, perhaps in the SVN membership docs in our purchases?



LisaRex said:


> Converted points also expire after 6 years.  How SPG keeps track of all this is beyond me.



That should be pretty easy -- every transaction in the SPG account is coded for the source it came from, along with the date, so it would be relatively simply to run an expiry routine against the accounts matching dates and sources (which would give you the terms/conditions of those points).



LisaRex said:


> However, David was correct that I was merely pointing out the imbalance of SPs received for converting vs. SPs needed to book a stay.  It's one of the things that makes buying from the developer look even more absurd, especially at a mandatory resort such as WKORV.



I think it's completely ludicrous what they charge to stay at the various villas (and some hotel properties) using SPG points.


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## YYJMSP (Feb 24, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> I'll back you on this. I recall seeing this very rule a few months ago.  Trouble is, despite looking for it on both MSC and SPG.com, I can't find it anymore.



Looks like you see the following under Special Conditions on SPG.com for each SVN properties (I just checked a few as a sample):

_Starwood Preferred Guest Information

Although this is a villa property, with fully equipped units, a unique exception has been made to allow this location to participate in the Starwood Preferred Guest program. Due to the nature of this exceptional villa, this location is unable to offer upgrades, late check-out, or daily newspaper. This location will credit Starpoints on all eligible dollars spent and will allow free night award stays but with the following restrictions:

•May only book within 365 days of arrival
•Inventory may be limited
•Starpoints acquired through conversion of a vacation ownership interest may not be redeemed at a Starwood Vacation Ownership property._


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## BluEyezNSC (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks YYJMSP & LisaRex. I knew that you could use additional points to upgrade a standard room but wasn't sure how that worked for a Villa that doesn't actually have a "standard room".

I absolutely love the Sheraton Steamboat Villas - they are luxuriously appointed, service at the resort is always top-notch, and the location can't be beat for skiing - but the amount of SPG points that will now be required for a room there is absolutely ridiculous!


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## LisaRex (Feb 25, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> That should be pretty easy -- every transaction in the SPG account is coded for the source it came from, along with the date, so it would be relatively simply to run an expiry routine against the accounts matching dates and sources (which would give you the terms/conditions of those points).



Yes, but they also have to match them up with spending.  I cannot imagine that there are many people whose SP bank is solely comprised of SPs earned by SO conversion.  So folks will inevitably have a mish-mash of restricted and non-restricted SPs with various expiry dates.  

For instance, if I traveled to a non-SVN hotel, I'd want them to use the restricted SPs that I earned from convertion my SOs first, even if their expiration date was later than other SPs I earned.


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## Transit (Feb 25, 2011)

Not as bad as past SPG hotel changes.I hope one day the allotted TS SP's will be adjusted upwards.


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## YYJMSP (Feb 25, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> Yes, but they also have to match them up with spending.  I cannot imagine that there are many people whose SP bank is solely comprised of SPs earned by SO conversion.  So folks will inevitably have a mish-mash of restricted and non-restricted SPs with various expiry dates.
> 
> For instance, if I traveled to a non-SVN hotel, I'd want them to use the restricted SPs that I earned from convertion my SOs first, even if their expiration date was later than other SPs I earned.



I would assume that they will use points closest to expiring (i.e. oldest) first.

Not sure if they can select which points they would use for a specific booking.


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## YYJMSP (Feb 25, 2011)

Transit said:


> Not as bad as past SPG hotel changes.I hope one day the allotted TS SP's will be adjusted upwards.



Has there ever been an adjustment of SO to SPG point conversion values?


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## DeniseM (Feb 25, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Has there ever been an adjustment of SO to SPG point conversion values?



There is no SO to SP value - the conversion is from your deeded week to SP's and no, there never has been an increase in SP's.  

I bought pre-construction at WKORV in 2002 and get the same SP's that I did then.


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## Ken555 (Feb 25, 2011)

It's actually good to see Starwood optimistic (again) about hotel occupancy and average daily rates. Perhaps it's a good sign about the economy.

Like many of you, I will no longer ever stay at WKORV using points. It's just not worth it at Cat 6, given the other methods we have to reserve there.


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## DeniseM (Feb 25, 2011)

The demand for Maui rentals has sky-rocketed this spring, so I'm not surprised about the increase in SP's.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 25, 2011)

WKORV may be bad for the amount SPG charges and the SO-SP conversion rate (80,000 for 148.1K SOs), but WSJ is way worse.

We would get 22,000 SPs for our 2Bd TH WSJ villa (81K SO) - that is less than 1 nite that SPG charges (at least 36,000 per nite!).  If ever there were a case to increase SPs - this is it.


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## Transit (Feb 25, 2011)

DavidnRobin said:


> WKORV may be bad for the amount SPG charges and the SO-SP conversion rate (80,000 for 148.1K SOs), but WSJ is way worse.
> 
> We would get 22,000 SPs for our 2Bd TH WSJ villa (81K SO) - that is less than 1 nite that SPG charges (at least 36,000 per nite!).  If ever there were a case to increase SPs - this is it.



That's insane  . Std 2 bed VV (81K SO) gets 42000.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Feb 25, 2011)

I would use 80,000 points for airfare. That will get both DH and myself to Hawaii and back on Hawaiian Air.
Liz


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## Ken555 (Feb 25, 2011)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> I would use 80,000 points for airfare. That will get both DH and myself to Hawaii and back on Hawaiian Air.
> Liz



Liz,

Are you really stating that you think converting a WKORV week into 80,000 StarPoints for use on two flight tickets (in coach) to go to Hawaii is an equitable trade?


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## YYJMSP (Feb 25, 2011)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> I would use 80,000 points for airfare. That will get both DH and myself to Hawaii and back on Hawaiian Air.
> Liz



Ouch, isn't that saying you spent ~$2000 on 2 tickets to Maui from California?

I was under the impression that tickets from there were in the ~$500ea range, or are prices there like from the Canadian west coast (~$800+ ea)


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Feb 27, 2011)

Hawaiian Air cost 17500 pt. each way. When I get 60,000 from Starwood, they add 15,000 more, so that is 75,000, which gets us round trip to Hawaii. I don't really compare that to room costs, I have the points so today it makes our Hawaii trip much less of an expense and then I don't have hesitations about the cost of going there every year. Yes, I could probably spend $1200 for round trip tickets, but this way it is $1200 I don't have to pay. With my timeshare pre-paid, airfare covered, and with us mostly living cheaply for our time there, all the extra expense really is just for car rental, a few nights out for dinner and buying presents.
Liz


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## LisaRex (Feb 27, 2011)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> Yes, I could probably spend $1200 for round trip tickets, but this way it is $1200 I don't have to pay.



Well, you do pay it, since you have to pay ~$2400 in MFs each year (I assume you're converting a Hawaii week.) 

And if you convert your TS to SPs, where do you stay when you go to Hawaii?  Or do you own two TSs? 

Not being argumentative.  Just curious.


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## Ken555 (Feb 27, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> Well, you do pay it, since you have to pay ~$2400 in MFs each year (I assume you're converting a Hawaii week.)
> 
> And if you convert your TS to SPs, where do you stay when you go to Hawaii?  Or do you own two TSs?
> 
> Not being argumentative.  Just curious.



I have the suspicion Liz is referring to using SPs obtained in other ways than conversion from timeshare ownership.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Feb 28, 2011)

Oh yes, just points not timeshare conversion.
Liz


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## sb2313 (Mar 1, 2011)

*WPORV is cat 6*

Didn't see this on the list, but Princeville also got bumped up a category. It is now a category 6 also, same category as the St Regis next door.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 1, 2011)

sb2313 said:


> Didn't see this on the list, but Princeville also got bumped up a category. It is now a category 6 also, same category as the St Regis next door.



You are correct - WPORV is not on list of SPG catagory changes, and it was not mentioned in the recent Owner's Newsletter of Cat changes (while WLORV, Steambost and Riverfront were...)

Was this because it was already a Cat 6?  It is listed in SPG as a Cat 6 (as of Mar1, 2011) - so it looks as if it has been a Cat 6 already... ?


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## sb2313 (Mar 1, 2011)

I only noticed it because I had been thinking about booking a room for my parents there and it had been a category five but now is a category 6 as noted on the spg page
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=5648
I was also surprised it had not been noted anywhere.  It had been 4800 points plus $90 for cash and points, but is now 8000 and $150.


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## jnsywg (Mar 1, 2011)

This is really too bad for those of who use SPG points for stays. We were planning this resort for 2012, not sure if that will be possible now.

I know that you owners have no sympathy, but...



sb2313 said:


> Didn't see this on the list, but Princeville also got bumped up a category. It is now a category 6 also, same category as the St Regis next door.


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## sb2313 (Mar 1, 2011)

*starwood probably changed wrong hawaii villa*

The other category changes are in effect(such as westin riverfront and steamboat springs) but wkorv is still listed as a category 5,instead of a 6 as it should be, so maybe starwood has changed the wrong property.  I really wouldn't care this much if I wasn't thinking about booking this for my parents, but this is kind of odd.  I'm sure it will be corrected in a couple of days...


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## melclark1 (Mar 2, 2011)

I tried booking WKORV last week for 2012 using starpoiints and it had already been converted to Cat 6.  I called 2 times and spoke with a manager and they were not able to help me.  They said because it was an SVO property their hands were tied.  Anyway, they wanted to charge me 36,000 starpoints/night for a 1 bdrm.  Needless to say we did not do it   I will trade into it or wait for a decent rate and pay for it instead.  That amount of points is crazy!


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## mscarboroughusa (Mar 2, 2011)

thanks for posting this -  I was able to cancel my rez at the SLS hotel in L.A. I had booked in May, rebook, and save 8K points / nt -  this property went from cat 6 to cat 5 -   I would not have caught the change  -  Cheers


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## LisaRex (Mar 2, 2011)

Hopefully this will bolster rental prices for owners who cannot use their villa!


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## bdogma (Mar 2, 2011)

We had booked a category 4 hotel in Puerto Rico for 2 nights to extend our timeshare stay in May. I was going to re-book it at the lower rate (category 3) and it was already adjusted in our account! It saved us 3400 points and about 35.00. Not a huge amount but we were surprised, pleased, and amazed


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## LisaRex (Mar 3, 2011)

*So what category is WKORV?*

So we just got this email from Starwood:

"Dear (LisaRex's husband), 

Recently, we invited you to earn Starpoints® faster with The Starwood Preferred Guest Credit Card from American Express.

If you haven't already applied, you can still earn up to 25,000 Starpoints —enough for 2 free nights 4 at a Category 5 hotel like the Sheraton New York Hotel or the Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas in Hawaii."

So....which category is it?


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## YYJMSP (Mar 3, 2011)

LisaRex said:


> So we just got this email from Starwood:
> 
> "Dear (LisaRex's husband),
> 
> ...



Weird, it's still showing at SPG.com as an SPG5 (12K - 16K per night depending on season).

The category change to SPG6 should have already gone in to effect as of Mar 1st.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 3, 2011)

bdogma said:


> We had booked a category 4 hotel in Puerto Rico for 2 nights to extend our timeshare stay in May. I was going to re-book it at the lower rate (category 3) and it was already adjusted in our account! It saved us 3400 points and about 35.00. Not a huge amount but we were surprised, pleased, and amazed



Nice, no work for you.

We manually changed our reservation at Le Meridien San Francisco (went from SPG5 to SPG4) to get the difference in points back...


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 4, 2011)

Re: SPG Catagories for Westin SVO resorts in HI.
{per SPG Hotel Directory as of Mar 4,2011}

WKORV = Cat 6
WPORV = Cat 5


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## sb2313 (Mar 4, 2011)

DavidnRobin said:


> Re: SPG Catagories for Westin SVO resorts in HI.
> {per SPG Hotel Directory as of Mar 4,2011}
> 
> WKORV = Cat 6
> WPORV = Cat 5


So starwood made a mistake?? how can that be????  
Thank you for the update on the corrected category levels for the hotels, its appreciated!


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## YYJMSP (Mar 11, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> Weird, it's still showing at SPG.com as an SPG5 (12K - 16K per night depending on season).
> 
> The category change to SPG6 should have already gone in to effect as of Mar 1st.



SPG.com is now showing the correct higher category for WKORV at SPG6, requiring 20K-25K SPG points/night depending on season.


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