# I'm a new "involuntary" Diamond Resorts owner through acquisition of my resorts



## Egret1986 (May 23, 2016)

One of my resorts is affiliated with RCI Points and a few of my deed fixed weeks are in RCI Points.  Therefore, I have to reserve my Home Weeks (deeded weeks) through RCI 12-13 months prior to check-in.  There is no exchange fee because this is a reservation and not an exchange.  Last Friday, I was told by another owner that the daily DRI amenity fee will be charged to any guests that use my deeded fixed weeks.  Here is the response I got to my email query from a Diamond Resorts Owner Services Reservation Specialist (formerly a Resort Owner Services Manager at the resort in question).

*I apologize for the confusion  you are experiencing regarding the resort fees here at the resort.

To clarify, if an owner is using their traditional deeded week, there is no resort fee. Guests staying on property with said owner do not have to pay the fee.

If an owner is exchanging through RCI via a home week or home resort  reservation this is considered an exchange and  there is a resort fee of $25.00 per night.  However, all reservations made prior to March 5th of this year will not be assessed the resort fee. Due to the fact RCI requires a home week or resort reservation to be made months in advance, you are probably ok for the reservations you have in place for this summer. Just remember reservations made March 5th forward, you will want to inform your renters of the fee."*

None of this makes sense to me.  Why would my guest be charged amenities when staying during my deeded fixed week, which is noted on the 2016 Usage Request Form as a deeded week?

Why would my guests have to have me as the owner at the resort during my deeded fixed week in order to avoid being charged the daily amenity fee?

Any RCI Points owners that were acquired by Diamond have issues with guests having to pay amenity fees if the owner isn't there at check-in?

Is this just misinformation or what?  It does not sound right.   This is my deeded fixed week we're talking about.

Thus far, this DRI acquisition is nothing but a nightmare.  It's non-stop follow-ups by me, misinformation given, delays on transfers (over four months), etc.


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## Bill4728 (May 23, 2016)

It sounds like all non owners upon check-in will be charged the fee. Since everyone has to check-in  the resort will be able to tell who is an owner and who is a guest.


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## tschwa2 (May 23, 2016)

I don't think that is true.  Does DRI charge resort fees to those renting from an owner either on a DRI points reservation or a deeded week reservation?  I think the problem is DRI doesn't know how to distinguish a guest on a home week reservation through RCI points and a guest or anyone else on an RCI points reservation.  Since this resort may be unique in their system having owners with RCI points, in which RCI administers all points reservations including the deeded home week, they are just clueless and are erring on the side of charging too much rather than charging too little. 

 If you plan to regularly use the home week, you might do best to remove it from RCI points.


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## RLS50 (May 23, 2016)

I still don't understand how those that have booked in RCI points for years, would even find themselves in a situation where they have to pay the daily resort fee to use what is really their deeded week?  That makes no sense to me.

Since RCI converts those weeks to points like 13 months in advance, one would think that DRI would have given owners a heads up and would have phased this program in while giving owners a chance over the next 12 months to get their weeks out of RCI if they wanted?   

If I understand it correctly, I think any owners that had weeks converted to points have no way to get out of paying the daily resort fees for 2017?    

I am not personally impacted, since we are not RCI customers, but fairness matters or should.


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## RLS50 (May 23, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> If you plan to regularly use the home week, you might do best to remove it from RCI points.


This.

From my understanding all RCI points owners that want to use their deeded week and not get charged the daily resort fee will need to do this.

The problem to me is that DRI did not give RCI Points owners enough time to adjust to this.   2017 weeks have already been taken and converted to points by RCI.


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## Egret1986 (May 24, 2016)

*That looks like what I'm going to have to do.*



tschwa2 said:


> I don't think that is true.  Does DRI charge resort fees to those renting from an owner either on a DRI points reservation or a deeded week reservation?  I think the problem is DRI doesn't know how to distinguish a guest on a home week reservation through RCI points and a guest or anyone else on an RCI points reservation.  Since this resort may be unique in their system having owners with RCI points, in which RCI administers all points reservations including the deeded home week, they are just clueless and are erring on the side of charging too much rather than charging too little.
> 
> If you plan to regularly use the home week, you might do best to remove it from RCI points.



This resort used to have a fantastic points-to-maintenance fee ratio.  However, now it's just under a penny a point.  No big deal to remove it.

I agree, DRI doesn't know how to handle it.  As you said, they would rather charge too much than too little.


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## tschwa2 (May 24, 2016)

You shouldn't have to take it out of points.  DRI should take the time to learn and program their system to work with all the various types of owners.  Vistana/Starwood has a few RCI points owners from some of their Orlando resorts and that represents a very small percentage of their overall owners but they work with RCI points for those owners.  

You are paying MF to cover those amenities that DRI is charging the resort fees for.  It is bad enough they are charging non owners (unless they are putting in one heck of a line item reimbursement into the budget), there is no reason to charge owners using their home week just because at some owner paid for the conversion to RCI points.  I know you bought already converted but can you imagine if you paid several thousand and now you are having to undo that to prevent getting double charged for amenities you already paid for through MF's.


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## RLS50 (May 24, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> You shouldn't have to take it out of points.  DRI should take the time to learn and program their system to work with all the various types of owners.  Vistana/Starwood has a few RCI points owners from some of their Orlando resorts and that represents a very small percentage of their overall owners but they work with RCI points for those owners.
> 
> You are paying MF to cover those amenities that DRI is charging the resort fees for.  It is bad enough they are charging non owners (unless they are putting in one heck of a line item reimbursement into the budget), there is no reason to charge owners using their home week just because at some owner paid for the conversion to RCI points.  I know you bought already converted but can you imagine if you paid several thousand and now you are having to undo that to prevent getting double charged for amenities you already paid for through MF's.


Well stated, but it's even a little worse than that IMO.   For DRI to start charging these amenity fees right out of the gate, one would at least expect those amenities to be first rate for those charges to be justified.   That isn't always the case.  For example the WiFi at some of these former Gold Key resorts is at best spotty to at worst practically non-existent.   Another example is that DRI started charging those fees even though at some resorts they didn't even have the pools staffed beyond 5pm or things completely open, so people were really getting charged an amenity fee for almost nothing tangible.

If you are going to charge those types of daily fees it becomes imperative that you are actually providing top amenities and things at any resort are running smoothly so customers actually have access to the amenities you are charging for.  If you are not, it basically becomes a form of price gouging.

We are staying at the Marriot hotel in Myrtle Beach in a few weeks, next door to Oceanwatch (Oceanwatch is sold out).  They also have a daily amenity fee of $18 per day, but I bet the WiFi coverage is really good to outstanding and of course, the other amenities I am expecting to be up to usual Marriott standards.

DRI has the right to set up the daily amenity fee (for non-owners).   They are not the only big company that does this.   But they should then be obliged (or committed) to making sure the amenities they are charging people for work, work well, and are actually available when customers need or want to use them. 

What makes the situation above even worse is making RCI points owners pay the fee for what is in effect their deeded week of use.   Without even giving them the time they need to get out of RCI points if that is what they need to do.   It just seems wrong, really wrong.


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## tschwa2 (May 24, 2016)

It's (resort fee for non owners) is a sales tool to get people to buy points and to book with points.  I really liked gold key.  In 2015 we had 2 units at Beach quarters for Easter.  We picked that one (over ocean club) because although it only had the partial kitchen, all rooms are ocean front and no extra fees for parking.  We only had one car.  If we book again, we would be looking at $140 in resort fees in addition to our exchanges and exchange fees.  As nice as that is, I am willing to go back to the VSA resorts like Ocean Key or Sands.  I don't like the Atrium.  Same with Beachwoods, we stopped for 2 or 3 nights (threw away the rest of the RCI week) and they initially charged us the resort fee even though I had booked months prior and later removed it although all of the communication by email was that they would not be removing it that the resort fee stands for everyone who books through RCI.  The outdoor pool was closed.  The main slide was closed for most of the time and only open about 1 hr while we were there. The clubhouse completely shut down by 5pm (not just the pool).  but the lake, the game room, the activity room.  

In the summer with all the amenities open hopefully most until at least 8pm, wifi at the rec center but not in the rooms, I think $10 a day would be reasonable.  With the more limited rec options and more restricted hours paying more than $5  a day seems unreasonable.  It was nice but it was small and in no way is it worth $175 plus tax extra for the week.


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## Egret1986 (May 24, 2016)

*No, I shouldn't have to do this.  I have 6 RCI Points contracts, all at this resort.*



tschwa2 said:


> You shouldn't have to take it out of points.  DRI should take the time to learn and program their system to work with all the various types of owners.  Vistana/Starwood has a few RCI points owners from some of their Orlando resorts and that represents a very small percentage of their overall owners but they work with RCI points for those owners.
> 
> You are paying MF to cover those amenities that DRI is charging the resort fees for.  It is bad enough they are charging non owners (unless they are putting in one heck of a line item reimbursement into the budget), there is no reason to charge owners using their home week just because at some owner paid for the conversion to RCI points.  I know you bought already converted but can you imagine if you paid several thousand and now you are having to undo that to prevent getting double charged for amenities you already paid for through MF's.



I could only get an RCI Vacation Guide and was told that I have to work through the resort to remove these contracts.  I haven't been able to properly view and use my RCI Points account in over two years.  I have worked with so many RCI staff in different departments to rectify this issue. I can't view Home Weeks or make Home Week reservations.  I can't see inventory for my Home Resort or Home Group.  I can see very little or do very little, except complete exchanges.  The excuse has been that I have so much activity.  

I wanted to put a guest on one of my Home Week reservations and this will be an additional fee ($69) for each side of each unit that I put a guest in.  I could have sworn that this was waived for Home Week reservations.  

With the messed up RCI Points account and RCI's total inability to fix it, the costs of guest certificates for my owned weeks and the DRI amenity fees for these reservations; I believe it's time to drop RCI Points.

I love RCI Points because I get most of my great exchanges through Points.  I just don't see the availability in Weeks that I do in Points.  I guess once I'm only a Weeks owner, I'll have to start using the OGS feature to get those great exchanges.

After 30+ years in timesharing and in RCI, it's time to do things differently cause this ain't working anymore.


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## RLS50 (May 25, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> It's (resort fee for non owners) is a sales tool to get people to buy points and to book with points.  I really liked gold key.  In 2015 we had 2 units at Beach quarters for Easter.  We picked that one (over ocean club) because although it only had the partial kitchen, all rooms are ocean front and no extra fees for parking.  We only had one car.  If we book again, we would be looking at $140 in resort fees in addition to our exchanges and exchange fees.  As nice as that is, I am willing to go back to the VSA resorts like Ocean Key or Sands.  I don't like the Atrium.  Same with Beachwoods, we stopped for 2 or 3 nights (threw away the rest of the RCI week) and they initially charged us the resort fee even though I had booked months prior and later removed it although all of the communication by email was that they would not be removing it that the resort fee stands for everyone who books through RCI.  The outdoor pool was closed.  The main slide was closed for most of the time and only open about 1 hr while we were there. The clubhouse completely shut down by 5pm (not just the pool).  but the lake, the game room, the activity room.
> 
> In the summer with all the amenities open hopefully most until at least 8pm, wifi at the rec center but not in the rooms, I think $10 a day would be reasonable.  With the more limited rec options and more restricted hours paying more than $5  a day seems unreasonable.  It was nice but it was small and in no way is it worth $175 plus tax extra for the week.


We liked Gold Key as well.

It makes a lot of sense to book at Beach Quarters, especially if one is coming thru II. ​ ​ You will always be guaranteed oceanfront and even if you exchange in, I am pretty sure you are still allowed access to the facilities across the street at Turtle Cay.   OBC can be a beautiful property overall and place to stay, but they also have room types that travelers who book thru II can get stuck with that they will likely not enjoy. ​ There is too much risk IMO trading into OBC via II. ​ ​ One has a chance of getting a better ocean view in Oceanaire via II, but even then you may not have real privacy because if you are put on the south side of the building your balcony might have an ocean view but could be directly across from another balcony at OBC.

One resort that I think is really under appreciated in VB is Four Sails.  Older resort but they have a number of upgrades in the works that should make a difference and make the place feel more modern.  They get consistently great reviews for service and location on Trip Advisor, and I believe the King suite double balconies are the largest balconies in VB (for non-Penthouse units).   In fact, I think the location is the best part because you can stay OF with a double balcony, and are still near all the outdoor restaurants, bars, and seating areas between 30th and 34th streets.

The situation you describe that you experienced at Beachwoods would be unacceptable to me.  I can deal with daily amenity fees (for my non-owner week), but in return for that I expect top shelf service and amenities to be available for use.  And I expect stuff like WiFi to work well (I always need to be able to connect due to my job).   I am hoping that Beachwoods gets better as they move out of major upgrade mode and back into normal mode.  I don't think people would balk at the daily amenity fee (as much) if the amenties were excellent and available every day from 8am-10pm.

I think they did a very good job overall with the improvements at Beachwoods, but now they need to get their daily operations running smoothly and make sure all that great stuff they added (pools, indoor water park, clubhouse, poolside grill, etc) is open and made available to the public.   Most quality East Coast resorts have those kinds of amenities online and available to customers by the time Spring Break weeks hit in April, if not earlier.   In the summer all that stuff should be staffed and open until 10pm (especially if you are paying a daily fee).

To me the Beachwoods refurb, while great in many respects, dropped the ball in 2 areas IMO.   They should have addressed the known WiFi issues and they should have heated the really nice outdoor pool they installed / upgraded and that would have extended the usage time another 3-4 months every year.  That's what Marriott would have done (and does).   

I think the Beachwoods response is that they have the indoor water park, but many people like to be outside in a heated pool in April, May, October, and early November.   The weather outside can still be nice during those months and many people want to be in the sun, not stuck indoors.  That is why Marriott usually has at least 1 outdoor heated pool at most of their timeshare resorts, and some of their resorts have multiple outdoor heated pools (and many are even farther south than NC).

Again, all JMO.


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## tschwa2 (May 25, 2016)

The wate rpark was also very noisy.  Kids were screaming but it seemed just the design. To talk to someone who isn't directly next to you, you would have to yell in order for them to hear you.  My older son is 14, I wasn't swimming and couldn't stand the noise so I watched through the glass in the sitting area.  Adults are not going to enjoy the water park area for extended periods of time.


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## RLS50 (May 25, 2016)

tschwa2 said:


> The wate rpark was also very noisy.  Kids were screaming but it seemed just the design. To talk to someone who isn't directly next to you, you would have to yell in order for them to hear you.  My older son is 14, I wasn't swimming and couldn't stand the noise so I watched through the glass in the sitting area.  Adults are not going to enjoy the water park area for extended periods of time.


The issue you state above is pretty typical with indoor water parks, especially ones that are not inside cavernous enclosures (that can better absorb the sound).   I think Beachwoods right now is tailor made for families with smaller / younger children.   If you have smaller or younger kids they will probably love it (assuming everything is open and available).

I think the most frustrating thing for many Beachwoods owners is that the resort has such tremendous potential, and they have been waiting since 2014 to see it fully realized.    The chaos introduced by the DRI acquisition has only exaggerated those frustrations...just as many were feeling that 2016 was finally going to be the year when everything came together.

I believe many Beachwoods owners, after getting hit with significant Special Assessments by Gold Key as the project launched, and having to put up with a bad 2015 travel season due to all the major construction, now to be hit by a 15% MF increase this year compounded by what feels to be a bunch of heavy handed additional charges being implemented by DRI, are just worn out.   They are getting tired of having to keep paying today for the promise of tomorrow, when tomorrow still hasn't arrived for them yet.

When you consider how enormous the footprint of the resort is (over 100 acres next to an additional 700 acres of nature reserve) if upgraded and run correctly I have no doubts the property could be one of the most in demand locations on OBX.    If it was run exceptionally well, and the right additional upgrades were made, the property even has the potential to someday rival a Marriott / Starwood (Vistana) type product.

But that will depend on the quality (and experience) of the resort management going forward and whether DRI actually invests the money required to make some still needed upgrades / improvements.


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