# Credit Card Rental Car Insurance (split from airport screamer thread)



## "Roger" (Apr 7, 2016)

Be careful  before  you sign up for  one of these expensive cards to make  sure  that  they include  access to lounges that you will  actually  use. The   Amex card,  for example, gives you  access  to  Delta lounges and a few generic  lounges found at  scattered  airports. I'm  not  sure, but  I  think  the CitiBank card is primarily  tied to  one airline  also.  Good deal if you fly the right airline, but  otherwise not.

With regard to  another discussion  on TUG, the AmEx preferred card  gives you  primary  insurance  on car rentals.


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## Luanne (Apr 7, 2016)

"Roger" said:


> In regards to  another discussion  on TUG, the AmEx preferred card  gives you  primary  insurance  on car rentals.



Other less expensive cards also provide this.  The Capital One card I have has no fee and provides coverage on rental cars.


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## PigsDad (Apr 7, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Other less expensive cards also provide this.  The Capital One card I have has no fee and provides coverage on rental cars.


Just a clarification: Roger said *primary *rental insurance, which kicks in _instead _of your personal insurance, not _in addition to_.  The Capital One card does not provide that.

Kurt


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## DeniseM (Apr 7, 2016)

We signed up for the AMEX primary insurance program.  No sign up fees, or membership fees.  

When we use our AMEX card for a car rental, it automatically kicks in, and we are automatically charged $17.95 for primary coverage for the duration of the rental.  Good for up to 42 days per rental:

https://www295.americanexpress.com/...+metroCode=862,+timeZone=America/Los_Angeles]


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## Luanne (Apr 7, 2016)

PigsDad said:


> Just a clarification: Roger said *primary *rental insurance, which kicks in _instead _of your personal insurance, not _in addition to_.  The Capital One card does not provide that.
> 
> Kurt



Well, we'll see.  We currently have a claim in with Capital One right now.  It is the only claim we filed on a small accident we had with a recent rental.  Sounds like this would be primary coverage.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> We signed up for the AMEX primary insurance program.  No sign up fees, or membership fees.
> 
> When we use our AMEX card for a car rental, it automatically kicks in, and we are automatically charged $17.95 for primary coverage for the duration of the rental.  Good for up to 42 days per rental:
> 
> https://www295.americanexpress.com/...+metroCode=862,+timeZone=America/Los_Angeles]


So we pay $24.95 for the coverage, but CA residents pay $17.95 for the same thing, according to the link.  Didn't you move out of CA?  :rofl:Now you have to pay what we pay.


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## "Roger" (Apr 8, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Well, we'll see.  We currently have a claim in with Capital One right now.  It is the only claim we filed on a small accident we had with a recent rental.  Sounds like this would be primary coverage.


I didn't check  their premium  cards, but  their  Web site  clearly  states that their  other  cards provide  secondary  coverage .


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## Luanne (Apr 8, 2016)

"Roger" said:


> I didn't check  their premium  cards, but  their  Web site  clearly  states that their  other  cards provide  secondary  coverage .



This is what I had found under the Benefits section of my Visa Signature Capital One card.  It doesn't say primary or secondary coverage.
-----

Auto Rental Insurance 

Go ahead. Drive your rental car with confidence. With Auto Rental Collision Damage Waiver* you may be covered for up to the cash value of the vehicle for damage due to collision or theft when you rent a car with your eligible Capital One Visa credit card. Call 1-800-397-9010 to submit a claim. 

 Here’s how it works: 
1.Pay for the entire transaction with your Capital One card.
2.Decline the rental insurance.
3.Within 45 days, notify Visa of the incident.
*Certain terms, conditions and exclusions apply. Check your guide to benefits for further details.


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## csxjohn (Apr 8, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Other less expensive cards also provide this.  The Capital One card I have has no fee and provides coverage on rental cars.



Does it provide primary coverage or secondary coverage?  Big difference it it's not primary coverage as the AMEX card is.

Also the free AMEX cards can provide this with a per rental fee of $20 or $25 when you sign up for the service.


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## Luanne (Apr 8, 2016)

csxjohn said:


> Does it provide primary coverage or secondary coverage?  Big difference it it's not primary coverage as the AMEX card is.
> 
> Also the free AMEX cards can provide this with a per rental fee of $20 or $25 when you sign up for the service.



Maybe I need someone to explain to me what the difference is between primary and secondary coverage.

As I said, we had a small accident with our last rental.  We paid for the repair and submitted the claim to Capital One.  Since we did NOT submit this to our insurance company as well, nor were we told to do so by Capital One, to me this would be primary insurance.

I'm not arguing whether this is the same benefit you're paying for with the AMEX card. I'm just saying I'm getting an insurance benefit that I'm paying nothing for with my Capital One card.  Of course we're still waiting to see if/what they pay out to us.


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## csxjohn (Apr 8, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Maybe I need someone to explain to me what the difference is between primary and secondary coverage.
> 
> As I said, we had a small accident with our last rental.  We paid for the repair and submitted the claim to Capital One.  Since we did NOT submit this to our insurance company as well, nor were we told to do so by Capital One, to me this would be primary insurance.
> 
> I'm not arguing whether this is the same benefit you're paying for with the AMEX card. I'm just saying I'm getting an insurance benefit that I'm paying nothing for with my Capital One card.  Of course we're still waiting to see if/what they pay out to us.



I'm not trying to argue either, just trying to find the facts.  I have coverage with my Discover card but it is secondary, will pay what my insurance doesn't cover  My AMEX policy is primary, I make to claim to my insurance co. and pay no deductible.

If a "no fee" card provides this same benefit, I'll be getting that card.


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## Luanne (Apr 8, 2016)

csxjohn said:


> I'm not trying to argue either, just trying to find the facts.  I have coverage with my Discover card but it is secondary, will pay what my insurance doesn't cover  My AMEX policy is primary, I make to claim to my insurance co. and pay no deductible.
> 
> If a "no fee" card provides this same benefit, I'll be getting that card.



We opted not to involved our primary car insurance for this.  Since it didn't appear we were required to do so when filing the claim with Capital One, we didn't.  If Capital One denies payment we'll just be paying out of pocket.


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## "Roger" (Apr 9, 2016)

Like John, I have been reluctant to reenter this discussion in that my interest is not to argue. Let me just say that until recently I accepted my insurance agent's advise to never buy the rental car insurance when renting a car in that I am already covered by my own car insurance.  That is still good advice in that rental car companies charge outrageous fees for their insurance.  Recently, however, several events came together in a perfect storm that made me look into having my credit card become my primary insurance when renting a car. In the end, like several poster's in this thread, I chose to sign up for a program available to all AmEx card holders (not tied to their platinum card) that makes their card the primary insurer at a cost of $20 per car rental.

As far as the (secondary) rental card insurance offered with most credit cards, this is a description of what is actually covered (taken from a Capital One Signature card terms of service, but typical of all secondary card insurance):

_ If you do have personal automobile insurance or other insurance covering this theft or damage, the Auto Rental CDW benefit reimburses you for the deductible portion of your personal automobile insurance and any unreimbursed portion of valid administrative and loss-of-use charges imposed by the auto rental company, as well as reasonable towing charges resulting from covered theft or damage of the rental vehicle while it is your responsibility._

In other words, you will have to arrange to have your personal auto insurance cover the costs for any theft or damage (can be more or less burdensome) and they will cover the deductible.  You will then, in all likelihood, be rewarded with an increase in your insurance premiums for having made a claim.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 9, 2016)

My stepdad backed his rental car, a Toyota RAV4, into a pole in Atlanta (he is 81).  

He rarely rents cars and I told him not to pay for the extra insurance because I wouldn't think he would ram a pole, for heaven's sake.  He went to my stepsister's deathbed (his oldest daughter who is my age).  He had to get to the hospital quickly, so he was probably more upset and flustered than he would be otherwise.  This incident added to his stress.  He stayed for her funeral, and when he went to return the car, he hit the pole in the airport lot for Alamo.  They were so understanding, and he was crying and visibly upset over Colleen's death....so sad to lose a daughter at the age of 58.

Anyway, he said the damage was $450, and so he called Wells Fargo, his credit card company, and they paid the entire amount.  His own insurance didn't come into play at all, and he was very grateful because he is on a very fixed income.


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## Luanne (Apr 9, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Anyway, he said the damage was $450, and so he called Wells Fargo, his credit card company, and they paid the entire amount.  His own insurance didn't come into play at all, and he was very grateful because he is on a very fixed income.



This is what we are doing with Capital One.  Accident was reported to them, NOT to our insurance.  According to the Capital One website, we didn't have to report it to our insurance.


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## easyrider (Apr 9, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Maybe I need someone to explain to me what the difference is between primary and secondary coverage.
> 
> As I said, we had a small accident with our last rental.  We paid for the repair and submitted the claim to Capital One.  Since we did NOT submit this to our insurance company as well, nor were we told to do so by Capital One, to me this would be primary insurance.
> 
> I'm not arguing whether this is the same benefit you're paying for with the AMEX card. I'm just saying I'm getting an insurance benefit that I'm paying nothing for with my Capital One card.  Of course we're still waiting to see if/what they pay out to us.



Primary auto rental insurance covers the car without using your regular auto policy for damage to the rental car. There is no liability insurance benefit regarding the credit card insurance weather it is primary or secondary . 

Secondary auto rental insurance covers the car after your insurance pays the primary, which means secondary auto rental insurance regarding damage to the rental car is almost worthless. 

In foreign countries where your personal auto insurance can not be applied  the secondary auto rental credit card insurance becomes primary. An example is Mexico where your personal auto insurance will not cover the rental car but the credit card will. 

Some credit cards will not cover loss of use by the rental car company.

It is a good idea to look at the terms and conditions and call the credit card company to understand the auto rental coverages. Amex is the best and is primary if you enroll into the Amex auto rental insurance program. There are also a few other benefits when using Amex for car rentals.

I was looking at the Citi Bank car rental insurance page the other day because of the Costco dealio and couldn't see what it covered. I guess my Costco Amex is turning into a Citi Bank card eventually. 

We dumped Capitol One about 8 years ago. The coverage for rental cars is secondary. 



> How does this coverage work with other insurance?
> Within your country of residence, this benefit supplements, and applies
> excess of, any valid and collectible insurance or reimbursement from
> any source. This means that, subject to the terms and conditions of this
> ...



Bill


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## Luanne (Apr 9, 2016)

easyrider said:


> Primary auto rental insurance covers the car without using your regular auto policy for damage to the rental car. There is no liability insurance benefit regarding the credit card insurance weather it is primary or secondary .
> 
> Secondary auto rental insurance covers the car after your insurance pays the primary, which means secondary auto rental insurance regarding damage to the rental car is almost worthless.
> 
> ...



From the Capital One website:

Auto Rental Collision Damage Waiver – Receive coverage, at no additional cost, for damage due to collision or theft. Just charge your entire rental transaction to your eligible Visa Signature card and decline the rental company’s collision damage waiver.
-----
This does not state that the coverage kicks in only after my primary auto insurance has paid.


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## bogey21 (Apr 9, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> When we use our AMEX card for a car rental, it automatically kicks in, and we are automatically charged $17.95 for primary coverage for the duration of the rental.  Good for up to 42 days per rental...



Back when I was traveling a lot I always used the AMEX card insurance as described by Denise.  Reason is that it was primary and the price was right as most of my rentals were for a week or more.  Fortunately I never had to make a claim but I felt well covered with it.

George


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## philemer (Apr 9, 2016)

Here is an awesome thread on Primary Auto Ins: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...best-cc-primary-rental-car-cdw-insurance.html  I moderate the thread so contact me if you see any errors.   Almost all cards that offer *primary* coverage, w/o an extra fee, are issued by Chase.

@Luanne: Here is some info about your auto ins. benefits:
*Within your country of residence, this benefit supplements, and applies excess of, any valid and collectible insurance or reimbursement from any source. This means that, subject to the terms and conditions of this benefit, Auto Rental CDW applies to eligible theft or damage or expenses that are not covered by insurance or reimbursement.* It's secondary coverage.  Just needed to read a little further. 

See: https://www.capitalone.com/media/do...ww.capitalone.com/credit-cards/benefits-guide


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## Luanne (Apr 9, 2016)

philemer said:


> Here is an awesome thread on Primary Auto Ins: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...best-cc-primary-rental-car-cdw-insurance.html  I moderate the thread so contact me if you see any errors.   Almost all cards that offer *primary* coverage, w/o an extra fee, are issued by Chase.
> 
> @Luanne: Here is some info about your auto ins. benefits:
> *Within your country of residence, this benefit supplements, and applies excess of, any valid and collectible insurance or reimbursement from any source. This means that, subject to the terms and conditions of this benefit, Auto Rental CDW applies to eligible theft or damage or expenses that are not covered by insurance or reimbursement.* It's secondary coverage.  Just needed to read a little further.
> ...



Since we have a claim pending, we'll see what happens.


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## philemer (Apr 9, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Since we have a claim pending, we'll see what happens.



Please let us know. Personally, we use a Chase United Airlines MP Explorer card for primary auto coverage. You also get 30K UA miles the first year + two United Club passes. See offer at www.united.com/


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## BocaBoy (Apr 10, 2016)

If the damage is less than your own insurance deductible, the credit card insurance would cover you  regardless of whether it is primary or secondary.  Very few cards have primary insurance.  We have used the United Mileage Plus Explorer Card from Chase, which has primary coverage included (no per rental extra charge).  Most Chase cards do NOT have primary coverage.


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## philemer (Apr 10, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> If the damage is less than your own insurance deductible, the credit card insurance would cover you  regardless of whether it is primary or secondary.  Very few cards have primary insurance.  We have used the United Mileage Plus Explorer Card from Chase, which has primary coverage included (no per rental extra charge).  Most Chase cards do NOT have primary coverage.



The short list is here, in the WIKI: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...best-cc-primary-rental-car-cdw-insurance.html


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## dioxide45 (Apr 10, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> If the damage is less than your own insurance deductible, the credit card insurance would cover you  regardless of whether it is primary or secondary.  Very few cards have primary insurance.  We have used the United Mileage Plus Explorer Card from Chase, which has primary coverage included (no per rental extra charge).  Most Chase cards do NOT have primary coverage.



That was my thought as well. The credit card company may also ask for a declaration page of your auto insurance to see what your deductible is and then pay out in full without needing to file a claim against your own insurance if the damage is less than the deductible. I would suspect with damage of less than $500, they wouldn't even bother asking to see your insurance declaration.

If the amount of the damage is not much higher than your deductible they may just pay the car rental agency the amount of your deductible, leaving you to either pay the difference or file a claim with your insurance company.

I also think the comment was that most cards that offer primary CDW are offered by Chase. Not that most Chase cards offer primary CDW. We also always use the United MileagePlus Explorer card for car rentals.


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## Luanne (Apr 10, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> That was my thought as well. The credit card company may also ask for a declaration page of your auto insurance to see what your deductible is and then pay out in full without needing to file a claim against your own insurance if the damage is less than the deductible. I would suspect with damage of less than $500, they wouldn't even bother asking to see your insurance declaration.
> 
> If the amount of the damage is not much higher than your deductible they may just pay the car rental agency the amount of your deductible, leaving you to either pay the difference or file a claim with your insurance company.
> 
> I also think the comment was that most cards that offer primary CDW are offered by Chase. Not that most Chase cards offer primary CDW. We also always use the United MileagePlus Explorer card for car rentals.



At this point we have not been asked for a declaration page from our auto insurance company.  Total amount of damage, which has been paid, was around $800.  

Since this is only the second time we've ever had any kind of incident with a rental car we really hadn't thought about how we'd handle an accident.  I only came across the benefit from Capital One when I was looking for something else.  We'd already decided not to involve our own insurance company with this claim.  So I guess this is more of an experiment to see exactly what, if anything, Capital One will pay out on this claim.


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## Iberim (Apr 10, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> If the damage is less than your own insurance deductible, the credit card insurance would cover you  regardless of whether it is primary or secondary.  Very few cards have primary insurance.  We have used the United Mileage Plus Explorer Card from Chase, which has primary coverage included (no per rental extra charge).  Most Chase cards do NOT have primary coverage.



This is correct. Though I managed to get the one with the primary insurance!


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## Icc5 (Apr 10, 2016)

*Master Card and our experience*

We use a Master Card for our travel costs including car rentals.  After about 150 times of renting cars we had a turkey hit the rental car.  We have AAA Insurance with a $1,000 deductible.  The accident cost was $1,500+.  The way it went is :
AAA paid $500+
We paid $1,000 then after much paperwork Master Charge reimbursed us the $1,000.  So, we ended up not paying anything out of pocket.  Both companies were very helpful and easy to deal with.  
The only part we disliked is it happened the very first day of a two week vacation and our right headlight worked but wasn't in the proper spot anymore and didn't shine where it needed to and we had driven into the next state.  Enterprise told us to just keep the car until our time was up.  We would have liked to exchanged it because we worried about getting a ticket.
Bart


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## dioxide45 (Apr 10, 2016)

Icc5 said:


> We use a Master Card for our travel costs including car rentals.  After about 150 times of renting cars we had a turkey hit the rental car.  We have AAA Insurance with a $1,000 deductible.  The accident cost was $1,500+.  The way it went is :
> AAA paid $500+
> We paid $1,000 then after much paperwork Master Charge reimbursed us the $1,000.  So, we ended up not paying anything out of pocket.  Both companies were very helpful and easy to deal with.
> The only part we disliked is it happened the very first day of a two week vacation and our right headlight worked but wasn't in the proper spot anymore and didn't shine where it needed to and we had driven into the next state.  Enterprise told us to just keep the car until our time was up.  We would have liked to exchanged it because we worried about getting a ticket.
> Bart



I guess the question is, did your AAA premium go up because of the claim? This is what it seems many here are concerned about. I suppose it would have also been possible for you to just pay the $1500 and have Master Card reimburse the $1000 and you would have been out $500 without a claim on your personal auto insurance?


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## Luanne (Apr 10, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> The credit card company may also ask for a declaration page of your auto insurance to see what your deductible is and then pay out in full without needing to file a claim against your own insurance if the damage is less than the deductible.



I did a little more checking on some of the documentation I've gotten from Capital One on our claim.  What we were required to submit:
- Claim form
- Copy of credit card statement showing rental and repair amounts
- Copy of initial auto rental agreement (this has been the hardest to provide since we are Avis Preferred and there is no initial rental agreement)
- Copy of correspondence from the rental car company outlining charges
- Itemized estimate of repair bill
- Photograph of damage

Then it goes on to say if you are using a personal card (not business) and you are traveling within your country of residence, a copy of your Auto Insurance Declaration Page.  We were traveling in Canada, so this did NOT apply to us and may explain why we were never asked for it, or for information about our car insurance.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 10, 2016)

Luanne said:


> I did a little more checking on some of the documentation I've gotten from Capital One on our claim.  What we were required to submit:
> - Claim form
> - Copy of credit card statement showing rental and repair amounts
> - Copy of initial auto rental agreement (this has been the hardest to provide since we are Avis Preferred and there is no initial rental agreement)
> ...



That makes sense. I believe most if not all of the credit card CDW becomes primary on international rentals.


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## Luanne (Apr 10, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> That makes sense. I believe most if not all of the credit card CDW becomes primary on international rentals.



And I want to add that Avis in Canada has been absolutely wonderful through all of this.  They have been providing us with the documentation needed and have been really helpful.  They have even offered to reimburse us any "fees" that the insurance doesn't cover.  I think this may be a $20 fee that I saw somewhere, but still, I was impressed.


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## classiclincoln (Apr 10, 2016)

Interesting this topic came up.  I've never purchased the rental car coverage because it was covered by the credit card. I've only had to use the credit card coverage twice.  Once back in 2012 when we were in Maui.  Was backing up while driving on the Road to Hana (one of those single lane bridges) and tapped the stone bridge.  Submitted it to the credit card company and they paid the entire thing.  Didn't pay attention to the details since they paid.  Last week while in Kauai, bottomed out the car while pulling into a parking spot at one of the beaches while on the way back from Ke'e beach.  Reported it to my credit card company (pretty sure it is the same one) and got the details.  They pick up your deductible (as noted in a previous post) and any excess you are responsible for (IE: report to your personal auto insurance company).  So, since I have a $1,000 deductible, they'll end up paying the first $1,000.  Not sure what the estimate is (hasn't heard back from the rental company), so we'll see.  I do remember that the damage from the Maui trip was under $1,000.

So, the lesson? 

Don't drive in Hawaii!  

Will look into the Amex coverage since I do have one of them too.


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## Luanne (Apr 10, 2016)

classiclincoln said:


> So, the lesson?
> 
> Don't drive in Hawaii!
> 
> Will look into the Amex coverage since I do have one of them too.



My lesson is, don't let dh drive. :hysterical:  The two accidents we've had with rental cars have both been him.  Neither have been horrible, one was in San Diego at the Coronado Beach Resort where he cut the turn into the parking garage too wide and scraped the side of the car.  I think with that one we didn't even think about using the credit card coverage, we may have submitted it to our insurance.

This most recent one was in, guess what, a parking garage.  Dh had pulled into a spot that was really too small.  As he was backing out he scraped the side of the car on a post.


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## csxjohn (Apr 10, 2016)

classiclincoln said:


> Interesting this topic came up.  I've never purchased the rental car coverage because it was covered by the credit card. I've only had to use the credit card coverage twice.  Once back in 2012 when we were in Maui.  Was backing up while driving on the Road to Hana (one of those single lane bridges) and tapped the stone bridge.  Submitted it to the credit card company and they paid the entire thing.  Didn't pay attention to the details since they paid.  Last week while in Kauai, bottomed out the car while pulling into a parking spot at one of the beaches while on the way back from Ke'e beach.  Reported it to my credit card company (pretty sure it is the same one) and got the details.  They pick up your deductible (as noted in a previous post) and any excess you are responsible for (IE: report to your personal auto insurance company).  So, since I have a $1,000 deductible, they'll end up paying the first $1,000.  Not sure what the estimate is (hasn't heard back from the rental company), so we'll see.  I do remember that the damage from the Maui trip was under $1,000.
> 
> So, the lesson?
> 
> ...





Luanne said:


> My lesson is, don't let dh drive. :hysterical:  The two accidents we've had with rental cars have both been him.  Neither have been horrible, one was in San Diego at the Coronado Beach Resort where he cut the turn into the parking garage too wide and scraped the side of the car.  I think with that one we didn't even think about using the credit card coverage, we may have submitted it to our insurance.
> 
> This most recent one was in, guess what, a parking garage.  Dh had pulled into a spot that was really too small.  As he was backing out he scraped the side of the car on a post.



I never was comfortable in a rental car being extra careful and worrying about theft.  Not worried enough to pay the rental company fees for insurance and just relying on my insurance and the back up coverage from Discover.

The $24 per rental that I pay to AMEX has lifted a burden.  I've only had it once for our trip to Phoenix but will use it every time I rent. 

As discussed in the Costco CC thread, I will get another AMEX card to keep this perk if the new CITI card does not offer it.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 10, 2016)

Knock on wood, we have never had to file any claim on a rental car.  We do have the Amex coverage for the extra $24.95 and pay that fee about 8X per year.  I never consider it a waste, even when it gets up to 200 rentals, and we are at about 60 now.  I like knowing we are covered.  

Along those lines....I am sick and tired of the pushy, grouchy people at the airport rental car counters, who literally yell at you for not paying for the extra insurance.  Rick is a calm guy, believe me, the kids think he is Mr. cool and I am Mrs. hothead, but not really.   Anyway, in February at SNA, the Budget guy told Rick, practically yelling, "Okay, you are just plain nuts, thinking your credit card covers loss of use, because it doesn't.  The little bit of money the insurance costs will be well worth it, but you turned it down, so too bad you don't know what you are doing."  I turned on my phone and recorded him saying this, as I stood there with my mouth wide open: "You had better bring that car back in perfect condition because they go over the cars with a fine-tooth comb."  Rick said, "If I wreck it, it's covered," with a big smile back that I knew was phony, but the guy didn't.  Rick was angry about it.  The creep assigned us the junkiest car in the lot with 59K miles.  Never has Alamo done that to us.  Rick wrote a letter to Costco because we reserved through them, and our insurance premium of $24.95 was through Amex from Costco.  Mr. Cool can write a nasty letter.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 10, 2016)

csxjohn said:


> I never was comfortable in a rental car being extra careful and worrying about theft.  Not worried enough to pay the rental company fees for insurance and just relying on my insurance and the back up coverage from Discover.
> 
> The $24 per rental that I pay to AMEX has lifted a burden.  I've only had it once for our trip to Phoenix but will use it every time I rent.
> 
> As discussed in the Costco CC thread, I will get another AMEX card to keep this perk if the new CITI card does not offer it.



I would expect the new Citi card for Costco to offer some kind of CDW coverage, but it just may not be primary. I am not sure why so many people are big on the Amex coverage. Sure it is primary, but there are other cards out that that give you primary coverage for unlimited number of rentals a year for only the annual fee. That annual fee comes with many other benefits though too. The Chase United MileagePlus card includes free checked bags on United, two lounge passes as well as primary CDW. Since we fly United most often, it is a better choice for us.

Why pay Amex $24 when you probably have another credit card in your wallet offering similar coverage?


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## classiclincoln (Apr 10, 2016)

My first claim did cover loss of use.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 10, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Knock on wood, we have never had to file any claim on a rental car.  We do have the Amex coverage for the extra $24.95 and pay that fee about 8X per year.  I never consider it a waste, even when it gets up to 200 rentals, and we are at about 60 now.  I like knowing we are covered.



It looks like you are paying $200 a year to Amex for that coverage. Why not go for another card like the United Mileage Plus from Chase that offers primary CDW and the annual fee is only $95.


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## Icc5 (Apr 11, 2016)

*Not Due to Accident*



dioxide45 said:


> I guess the question is, did your AAA premium go up because of the claim? This is what it seems many here are concerned about. I suppose it would have also been possible for you to just pay the $1500 and have Master Card reimburse the $1000 and you would have been out $500 without a claim on your personal auto insurance?



We just paid our auto insurance and it was up only a few dollars so no, it didn't go up because of the claim.  They also had told me at the time that this type of claim has no affect on our rates (I didn't ask but they told me this anyway I guess most people ask). 
We also have 2 cars and 2 houses insured by AAA and we have been with them since1967.

Bart


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## bogey21 (Apr 11, 2016)

Luanne said:


> At this point we have not been asked for a declaration page from our auto insurance company.  Total amount of damage, which has been paid, was around $800.
> 
> Since this is only the second time we've ever had any kind of incident with a rental car we really hadn't thought about how we'd handle an accident.  I only came across the benefit from Capital One when I was looking for something else. * We'd already decided not to involve our own insurance company with this claim.*  So I guess this is more of an experiment to see exactly what, if anything, Capital One will pay out on this claim.



I don't know the answer to this so I am asking the following question.  How do you know Capital One won't ask your insurance company to come up with their share of the cost?

George


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## csxjohn (Apr 11, 2016)

Posted in error.


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## csxjohn (Apr 11, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I would expect the new Citi card for Costco to offer some kind of CDW coverage, but it just may not be primary. I am not sure why so many people are big on the Amex coverage. Sure it is primary, but there are other cards out that that give you primary coverage for unlimited number of rentals a year for only the annual fee. That annual fee comes with many other benefits though too. The Chase United MileagePlus card includes free checked bags on United, two lounge passes as well as primary CDW. Since we fly United most often, it is a better choice for us.
> 
> Why pay Amex $24 when you probably have another credit card in your wallet offering similar coverage?



I seldom fly and pay no fees for any of the cards I have.  None of them have the primary coverage.  For me, the per use fee for the CDW and additional accident insurance give me a lot of peace of mind.

I have looked into many other cards that were suggested to me in the other threads and so far the per use charge from AMEX is the best fit for me.  If I flew and rented more then some others with annual fees and CDW included would be better.  Thank you for the help with that.

The few time I've flown in the past 20 years, United has never been the most economical so a card that gives rewards for just one airline does not work for me.


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## Luanne (Apr 11, 2016)

bogey21 said:


> I don't know the answer to this so I am asking the following question.  How do you know Capital One won't ask your insurance company to come up with their share of the cost?
> 
> George



Because we never provided them with the name of our insurance carrier.


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## bogey21 (Apr 11, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Because we never provided them with the name of our insurance carrier.



Good news.  Sometimes when renting I was asked to provide name of my Insurance Carrier at the airport counter when signing the contract.

George


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## Luanne (Apr 11, 2016)

Here's the follow up on our claim from the email I received this morning:

I am writing to alert you that your claim has been paid. The check, per your request, has been issued to yourself in the amount of $843.95 USD.


•This represents full settlement of the claim, including all reasonable Loss of Use and Administrative fees.



You will receive the check within approximately 7-10 business days.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 11, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> It looks like you are paying $200 a year to Amex for that coverage. Why not go for another card like the United Mileage Plus from Chase that offers primary CDW and the annual fee is only $95.



I don't fly United.  We fly only Southwest to/from Denver.  I used to have that card and had a heck of a time finding flights with awards.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 11, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Here's the follow up on our claim from the email I received this morning:
> 
> I am writing to alert you that your claim has been paid. The check, per your request, has been issued to yourself in the amount of $843.95 USD.
> 
> ...



Which Capital One card is it?

I would use My Venture card more, if that was covered.


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## Luanne (Apr 11, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Which Capital One card is it?
> 
> I would use My Venture card more, if that was covered.



It's the Visa Signature.  NO annual fee.  I found the information about the coverage in the Benefits section on the Capital One website.

Remember, this was for a rental in Canada. I used that card primarily because it also doesn't have any foreign transaction fee.  If the rental had been within the U.S. it looks like I would have had to provide information on our car insurance and the Capital One coverage may have become secondary at that point.


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## easyrider (Apr 11, 2016)

bogey21 said:


> Good news.  Sometimes when renting I was asked to provide name of my Insurance Carrier at the airport counter when signing the contract.
> 
> George



Same here. Last time it was the Thrifty in Kona that wanted this info. In Maui, I didn't need to provide Budget with this info at all.

Bill


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## Luanne (Apr 11, 2016)

easyrider said:


> Same here. Last time it was the Thrifty in Kona that wanted this info. In Maui, I didn't need to provide Budget with this info at all.
> 
> Bill



We always carry our insurance card with us but I don't think I've ever been asked for the information.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 11, 2016)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I don't fly United.  We fly only Southwest to/from Denver.  I used to have that card and had a heck of a time finding flights with awards.



Even if you don't fly United, why pay $200 when you can pay $95? Even if you never use the card for anything but rental cars, I would think that the savings on CDW coverage more than makes up for the few points you lose by sending them to United? Is the miles or points you would earn on the car rental spend through Amex worth $105?


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## dioxide45 (Apr 11, 2016)

bogey21 said:


> I don't know the answer to this so I am asking the following question.  How do you know Capital One won't ask your insurance company to come up with their share of the cost?
> 
> George



Worst case is that the credit card company pays for the damage and the car rental company comes after the renter for the difference. In that case the renter could just settle up with the rental company. In the case of minor damage, the renter usually pays the car rental company for the damage and is then reimbursed by the credit card CDW. So if the renter paid the damage in cash, the credit card company would't care about personal auto insurance.


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## Luanne (Apr 11, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Worst case is that the credit card company pays for the damage and the car rental company comes after the renter for the difference. In that case the renter could just settle up with the rental company. In the case of minor damage, the renter usually pays the car rental company for the damage and is then reimbursed by the credit card CDW. So if the renter paid the damage in cash, the credit card company would't care about personal auto insurance.



Since the rental car company had the repairs done AND charged us for them (on the credit card used for the rental) I don't think they'd be coming after us for any difference, since they already had their money.

How would the renter pay for the damage in cash?


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## dioxide45 (Apr 11, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Since the rental car company had the repairs done AND charged us for them (on the credit card used for the rental) I don't think they'd be coming after us for any difference, since they already had their money.
> 
> How would the renter pay for the damage in cash?



I meant exactly what you said. By cash, I mean the renter already paid for the damages. Usually charged automatically to the same card used for the rental. Then the credit card CDW is just reimbursing the renter.


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## Luanne (Apr 11, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I meant exactly what you said. By cash, I mean the renter already paid for the damages. Usually charged automatically to the same card used for the rental. Then the credit card CDW is just reimbursing the renter.



Okay, so you're saying the credit card reimbursement may not be for the entire amount.  Got it.....I think.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 11, 2016)

Luanne said:


> Okay, so you're saying the credit card reimbursement may not be for the entire amount.  Got it.....I think.



Correct. If you had a domestic rental and you submitted your auto policy declaration and your claim was for more than your deductible, I would have expected that they would only reimburse you for your deductible, leaving you to file an additional claim with your personal auto. If you so desired. For a couple hundred dollars, I wouldn't bother filing an auto insurance claim.


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## csxjohn (Apr 11, 2016)

Luanne said:


> We always carry our insurance card with us but I don't think I've ever been asked for the information.



we also carry a card from our insurance company but not for the rental company but in case I get stopped for a traffic violation.  Here in Ohio if you have the registration and proof of insurance you can waive a court appearance for minor traffic offenses.  If you can't produce either, you have to appear in person.


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## Luanne (Apr 11, 2016)

csxjohn said:


> we also carry a card from our insurance company but not for the rental company but in case I get stopped for a traffic violation.  Here in Ohio if you have the registration and proof of insurance you can waive a court appearance for minor traffic offenses.  If you can't produce either, you have to appear in person.



As I said, I can't remember if we've ever had to show proof of insurance when we've rented a car, but I had a friend who was asked when renting a car at SFO.  They hadn't brought anything with them and were only able to get the car by calling their agent and having him fax something.


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## dreamin (Apr 12, 2016)

In Manitoba we have government car insurance, not private.  When we rent a car in the US we get a rental car policy through the public insurance that covers CDW, no deductible, loss of use, and 5 million third party liability (costs $15 registration fee plus $8 per day).  If your credit card companies cover CDW, does your primary insurer cover you for personal injury claims?  Some of my family believe that their credit cards will cover them if they are sued for causing injury or death.  I understand these claims can be extremely high so I can't imagine a credit card company paying for this.  Can someone clarify?


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## isisdave (Apr 12, 2016)

BocaBoy said:


> If the damage is less than your own insurance deductible, the credit card insurance would cover you  regardless of whether it is primary or secondary.  Very few cards have primary insurance.  We have used the United Mileage Plus Explorer Card from Chase, which has primary coverage included (no per rental extra charge).  Most Chase cards do NOT have primary coverage.



In the only "opportunity" I ever had to try this out, the damage was less than the deductible stated on my evidence of insurance, so Hertz worked with Visa directly and didn't even notify my insurance carrier. I was impressed. They only claimed one day of loss of use. (This was like 1992 and people are less generous now, though.)


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## isisdave (Apr 12, 2016)

No, dreamin, this whole thread is about damage to the car.

Rental companies in the US are required to provide the minimum third-party liability coverage, but this may be woefully inadequate ... like in California, it's only $30000 and I don't think it's been raised since 1956. Of course it DOES obligate the insurer to defend a claim, but if you don't own a car and have insurance that provides coverage on whatever car you drive, you need to get non-owner liability coverage instead.

Also, none of this will cover damage to YOU or your family if you're in an accident, so your own health coverage will have to pay that. There MIGHT be coverage for a non-family-member in your car (say you're driving your child's teammate to a game) but they (their health insurer) might have to sue you to collect.


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## csxjohn (Apr 12, 2016)

isisdave said:


> ...
> Also, none of this will cover damage to YOU or your family if you're in an accident, so your own health coverage will have to pay that. There MIGHT be coverage for a non-family-member in your car (say you're driving your child's teammate to a game) but they (their health insurer) might have to sue you to collect.



Not true, the AMEX per rental coverage does have personal injury coverage.  I opted for the higher priced option to get better and higher injury coverage.


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## "Roger" (Apr 12, 2016)

Let me start by noting that I never have had to file any sort of claim on a rental car, and, the more I read, the more I hope I never have to ...


dreamin said:


> ... Some of my family believe that their credit cards will cover them if they are sued for causing injury or death.  I understand these claims can be extremely high so I can't imagine a credit card company paying for this.  Can someone clarify?


The credit card companies, regardless of whether providing primary or secondary coverage, only cover CDW. They do not include liability. As someone mentioned, the rental car companies provide some liability coverage, enough for fender benders, but you could be in trouble if you run over a billionaire. You need to check to see what your own personal auto insurance covers with regard to liability with rental cars.


csxjohn said:


> Not true, the AMEX per rental coverage does have personal injury coverage.  I opted for the higher priced option to get better and higher injury coverage.


Just to add, this personal injury coverage is listed as secondary.

*****

One further note, and this comes from a TUG thread eons ago.  Someone either totaled a car or had a car stolen (can't remember which) while in Ireland. He had primary insurance on his credit card and was covered, but ...

The insurance division was separate from the credit card division (and I think this is always true, not sure), so the insurance division ran up a charge against his credit card and this was not removed until the insurance claim was settled.  That meant he was fully covered, but his credit card was maxed out for several months while the claim was being processed. Bottom line, when you travel, carry two credit cards.


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## Gaozhen (Apr 12, 2016)

"Roger" said:


> ... Bottom line, when you travel, carry two credit cards.



This. And not just for car insurance purposes…always good to carry several just in case you lose a wallet, or get mugged, or something else unfortunate happens. I usually keep one in my wallet, one in my suitcase, and one in whatever additional bag(s) we have (backpack, carry-on, etc). I just feel better having a backup, and usually keep it - along with a back up debit card for cash access - hidden in my bag somewhere with a copy of my passport/ID.


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## LisaRex (Apr 12, 2016)

FYI, Chase Sapphire offers primary coverage as part of its $95 annual fee, and in order for it to be in effect, I have to decline the Collision Damage Waiver/Loss Damage Waiver offered by the rental agency:

Answer:  Your Sapphire PREFERRED® credit card offers Auto Rental Collision Damage insurance. Your card provides primary insurance coverage both inside and outside of the United States for damage due to collision or theft up to the actual cash value of most rental cars. You must secure and charge the entire eligible rental to your card, and decline the Collision Damage Waiver/Loss Damage Waiver offered by the rental agency. Coverage is provided to you and other authorized drivers as permitted by the rental contract. Additional terms and conditions apply.

I love my Chase Sapphire.  It has a great signing bonus now, 50,000 too, if you spend $4000 in 3 months. It has excellent rates (in terms of points or cash and points) for rental cars. 

https://creditcards.chase.com/credit-cards/sapphire-preferred-card.aspx?CELL=6TKX


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## Born2Travel (Apr 13, 2016)

LisaRex said:


> FYI, Chase Sapphire offers primary coverage as part of its $95 annual fee, and in order for it to be in effect, I have to decline the Collision Damage Waiver/Loss Damage Waiver offered by the rental agency:
> 
> Answer:  Your Sapphire PREFERRED® credit card offers Auto Rental Collision Damage insurance. Your card provides primary insurance coverage both inside and outside of the United States for damage due to collision or theft up to the actual cash value of most rental cars. You must secure and charge the entire eligible rental to your card, and decline the Collision Damage Waiver/Loss Damage Waiver offered by the rental agency. Coverage is provided to you and other authorized drivers as permitted by the rental contract. Additional terms and conditions apply.
> 
> ...



Do you need to  book through Chase for it to cover a rental?


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## dioxide45 (Apr 13, 2016)

Born2Travel said:


> Do you need to  book through Chase for it to cover a rental?



Any time you want credit card CDW coverage to be in effect, you have to use that credit card for all parts of the rental process. Usually that just means you use it to pay for the rental. But don't use one card when you check in for the rental and another when you return the car. If you do that, CDW on either card won't cover you.


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## LisaRex (Apr 13, 2016)

Born2Travel said:


> Do you need to book through Chase for it to cover a rental?



No. You have to pay for the rental with your Chase credit card.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 16, 2016)

I was just reading through the benefits guide for my wife's AAdvantage card from Citi. In it it indicated the following;



> This means that if you have another insurance policy that will cover the cost of damage or theft to your rental car, this benefit will cover only the amount your other policies do not. *Worldwide Car Rental Insurance does cover deductibles you may have to pay under your other insurance policies* (or that your employer may have to pay, if you rented the car for business reasons).



The bolding is mine. So if you are in an accident and paid for your rental with this card, it would basically be useless in the United States where its coverage is secondary?


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## bogey21 (Apr 16, 2016)

Luanne said:


> As I said, I can't remember if we've ever had to show proof of insurance when we've rented a car, but I had a friend who was asked when renting a car at SFO.  They hadn't brought anything with them and were only able to get the car by calling their agent and having him fax something.



My recollection is that this happened to me once picking up a car at the  Orlando Airport.  After that I always carried proof of insurance with me.  I don't recall how many times I had to produce it but it was more than once.

George


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## "Roger" (Apr 16, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I was just reading through the benefits guide for my wife's AAdvantage card from Citi. In it it indicated the following;
> 
> 
> 
> The bolding is mine. So if you are in an accident and paid for your rental with this card, it would basically be useless in the United States where its coverage is secondary?


Just got an email about changes with regard to my Hilton Citibank card. Same wording. I read it the same way -- no benefit if you are in the US (presuming your personal auto insurance covers rentals).

Even before this posting, I was wondering if credit cards might change their terms.  When they first started offering car rental insurance, people commonly had deductibles of $100 or $250. Now you see $500 and $1,000 deductibles.  That had to have been costing them a lot more money than when they initiated the coverage.

On a different topic, both of my credit cards offer trip insurance that looks pretty much what people are paying separately for.  I wonder is some people are paying for unnecessary trip insurance.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 17, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I was just reading through the benefits guide for my wife's AAdvantage card from Citi. In it it indicated the following;
> 
> 
> 
> The bolding is mine. So if you are in an accident and paid for your rental with this card, it would basically be useless in the United States where its coverage is secondary?





"Roger" said:


> Just got an email about changes with regard to my Hilton Citibank card. Same wording. I read it the same way -- no benefit if you are in the US (presuming your personal auto insurance covers rentals).
> 
> Even before this posting, I was wondering if credit cards might change their terms.  When they first started offering car rental insurance, people commonly had deductibles of $100 or $250. Now you see $500 and $1,000 deductibles.  That had to have been costing them a lot more money than when they initiated the coverage.
> 
> On a different topic, both of my credit cards offer trip insurance that looks pretty much what people are paying separately for.  I wonder is some people are paying for unnecessary trip insurance.



I think I read it too fast or something. Have another regular Citi card and it indicated does cover deductibles. I went back and re-read my post and it is the same. So it would cover any deductible my personal auto insurance would not. I was somehow reading does not.


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## easyrider (Apr 17, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think I read it too fast or something. Have another regular Citi card and it indicated does cover deductibles. I went back and re-read my post and it is the same. So it would cover any deductible my personal auto insurance would not. I was somehow reading does not.



The deductible being paid by your regular auto insurance means that your regular auto insurance pays the first portion of the claim. So that would mean your regular auto insurance pays the entire claim and the credit card insurance reimburses you for the deductible, which means this isn't even really secondary. 

AMEX pays the entire claim as primary.

Bill


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## elaine (Apr 17, 2016)

Our Delta AMEX is secondary unless you sign up for the $24.95 per rental coverage (which we did) and then it is automatic.


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## csxjohn (Apr 19, 2016)

elaine said:


> Our Delta AMEX is secondary unless you sign up for the $24.95 per rental coverage (which we did) and then it is automatic.



Correct, automatic as long as you use the AMEX card for the entire rental and refuse the CDW at the rental agency counter.  

You can get the $25 or the $20 coverage if you wish.  I also chose the $25 option.


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## jhoug (Apr 25, 2016)

*Amex*

We went to a bowl game during a Christmas week in SFO at Giants Stadium.
Luckily my husband asked at the last minute which CC we should use and we put on AMEX due to our premium insurance and I had to be the primary renter because only I had brought the card. 
Had several smash and grab of bags/valubles of 5-6 cars in out parking lot. 

AMEX was the Primary insurance for the AUTO, so paid for the window, but not for the BELONGINGS they were secondary--that had to go through the HOME OWNERS insurance. 
The AMEX only covered the $500 deductible that the HOME OWNERS had that we were responsible for.  The bag stolen had my computer and several other electronics, some were gifts, so I had no receipts.  I had to produce several receipts for AMEX to cover the deductible, so I ended up finding receipts for several accessories and the bag itself which I had bought on Amazon in my account history to total up to $350 of the lost belongings.  Did not get the full deductible back. 

We had contacted our primary AUTO insurance, we had 100% coverage for windows and they would have covered, but ended up not paying anything due the AMEX was Primary.

Oh and I might add we had to drive around 2 days with a busted out back/side window since that week that had no other cars for us to exchange, and we couldn't get the window fixed ourselves, everything had to go through the insurances and they needs claim numbers before anything would be done.


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## DeniseM (Apr 25, 2016)

I'm guessing you mean AT&T Park in San Francisco?   Unfortunately, leaving valuables unattended in a car in a large city is an invitation to get robbed.

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk


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## jhoug (Apr 25, 2016)

*Yes*

Unfortunately it took them 2-3 hours to even find us a car that fit 6 people when we had reserved well in advance due to the week that it fell it. 
Other companies were all out of cars as well. 
And then we didn't have time to visit our timeshare first which was at the Worldmark in Windsor, so too far to drive and unload as we had planned. 
Was just glad they hadn't taken my husband's cpap machine that cost even more. 
Don't think I'll travel by plane to a big city like that during that week again. 
Lessons learned.


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## Luanne (Apr 25, 2016)

On the Big Island of Hawaii.  Some %#@$% scraped the side of our rental car and left no note.   This rental is on dh's Chase United card.

It looks like his card might include CDW.  Sure hope so.


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## DeniseM (Apr 25, 2016)

jhoug said:


> Unfortunately it took them 2-3 hours to even find us a car that fit 6 people when we had reserved well in advance due to the week that it fell it.
> Other companies were all out of cars as well.
> *And then we didn't have time to visit our timeshare first which was at the Worldmark in Windsor, so too far to drive and unload as we had planned. *
> Was just glad they hadn't taken my husband's cpap machine that cost even more.
> ...



When you made this plan, were you aware that is is 84 miles from SFO to Windsor and with Bay Area traffic it could easily be 4 hours round trip?


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## dioxide45 (Apr 25, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> When you made this plan, were you aware that is is 84 miles from SFO to Windsor and with Bay Area traffic it could easily be 4 hours round trip?



84 miles is just a little over an hour around these parts...


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## DeniseM (Apr 25, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> 84 miles is just a little over an hour around these parts...



That's pretty much my point - this route isn't in Ohio.    It's a long way to go to drop luggage off.


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## VacationForever (Apr 25, 2016)

When a cc says it provides secondary coverage, does it mean it will pay for the deductible (the first $X where the auto insurance policy does not cover)?


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## easyrider (Apr 26, 2016)

sptung said:


> When a cc says it provides secondary coverage, does it mean it will pay for the deductible (the first $X where the auto insurance policy does not cover)?



Yes and No. The cc should have a section on what they actually cover. If you can't find the info in writing I would assume no. You could call and get a verbal but I think its better to see this in the terms and conditions area in writing.

Bill


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