# Kauai  County Council Members



## Kauai Kid (Sep 7, 2008)

Just in case you'd like to contact them about the proposed increase in property tax for time-share owners.  "The proposal is to increase the property tax on buildings from the current rate of $3.44 per $1,000 of value to $6.00 for $1,000 (an increase of 74%).  Kauai residents are protected from the brunt of this change since their homestead exemption will increase from $48K to $300K and taxes on land value will decrease by an average of 31%".:  From Time Sharing Today

Mel Rapozo, Council Vice Chair                          mfrapozo@kauai.gov 

Tim Bynum, Councilmember                               tbynum@kauai.gov 

Jay Furfaro, Councilmember                                jfurfaro@kauai.gov 

Shaylene Iseri-Carvalho, Councilmember              scarvalho@kauai.gov 

Ronald Kouchi, Councilmember                           rkouchi@kauai.gov 

JoAnn Yukimura, Councilmember                        jyukimura@kauai.gov


If they absolutely must increase property taxes  on time-shares I'd like to see the increase phased in over several years rather than a whopping big 74% increase in a single year.  Public hearing was scheduled on July 30th  Public hearing was adjourned to mid Aug..Unknown when the Council will act.

If my property taxes are going to be increased shouldn't the Council have directly informed me and every other time-share owner on the Island?

But, I don't vote, so they don't care.


Sterling


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## Mimi (Sep 7, 2008)

Hey Sterling,

It was my letter that Belinda Breen sent to TST as a model, which many people disliked because I threatened to reduce the number of family travelers to Kauai and boycott local businesses as a consequence of the unfair tax increase. At least my name was withheld. :hysterical:


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 7, 2008)

First of all:  Mahalo

What irritates me most of all is the fact that Kauai County didn't notify me personally--darn it I own property and pay taxes.  Seems like the person whose taxes are going to be increased should be notified.

Also, I'm not happy that the management companies for our Hawaii Time Shares are so incompetent that can 't notify their "customers" of  the impending tax increase.  

The Point at Poipu, The NaPali Kauai Club, or the Alii Kai II Management.

Lets see:  An increase of 75% on my $5/gallon Hawaii gas=$8.75

Guess I better stop complaining about gasoline increases.

As a Texas property tax payer I'd be delighted if my taxes stayed the same.

When was the meeting held?  2am on a Sunday morning?  Why didn't the county notify me?

Bah Humbug,


Sterling 

old Hawaiian sayings: "May the fleas of a thousand pigs invade their pubic hair during re-election time"  "May their mother and father finally marry".


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## Mimi (Sep 8, 2008)

Well, since Bluegreen manages our Pono Kai timeshares, I guess they could care less, since they may be acquired Diamond Resorts. No one bothered to let us know about that, either! :annoyed:


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## timeos2 (Sep 8, 2008)

*Do what you can to offset it at the locals expense*



Mimi said:


> Hey Sterling,
> 
> It was my letter that Belinda Breen sent to TST as a model, which many people disliked because I threatened to reduce the number of family travelers to Kauai and boycott local businesses as a consequence of the unfair tax increase. At least my name was withheld. :hysterical:



I liked the part where you (or someone) wrote to TST that they would withhold tips. Why not? If the people of the Town/County are going to rip timeshare owners off for an unfair share of taxes then those owners have "tipped" them through that extortion process. Since they will save on taxes they are getting "tipped" upfront. No need to pay again when those timeshare owners visit a restaurant or spa or have a bag carried. They can't have it both ways IMO.


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 8, 2008)

I won't withhold tips because the wait staff didn't raise my taxes, the commissioners did.  Wish I could figure out how to put the hurt on the top dogs rather than the little people.

Sterling


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## Dave*H (Sep 8, 2008)

Kauai Kid said:


> Wish I could figure out how to put the hurt on the top dogs rather than the little people.


The way to put the hurt on is to not go there and send an email or letter to every business owner you might otherwise patronize a letter explaining why.  Until the voters of Hawaii realize this is costing them money, nothing is likely to change.


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## Mimi (Sep 9, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> I liked the part where you (or someone) wrote to TST that they would withhold tips. Why not? If the people of the Town/County are going to rip timeshare owners off for an unfair share of taxes then those owners have "tipped" them through that extortion process. Since they will save on taxes they are getting "tipped" upfront. No need to pay again when those timeshare owners visit a restaurant or spa or have a bag carried. They can't have it both ways IMO.



Yes Sir...that was part of my letter to board members. 

I was annoyed at the time I wrote it!    First Maui...now Kauai!


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## reddiablosv (Sep 9, 2008)

*Class action lawsuit.*

Both what is happening in Kauai, and what has already happened in Maui deserve a class action lawsuit! We are protected under the equal protection addmendment of the US constitution!  The US constitution trumps the local bull shit!


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 9, 2008)

*Synoposis of letter to Kauai Council*

To Kauai County Council Members:

My wife and I have been going to Kauai for over 25 years almost every year and lately twice a year.  Over the years we purchased 6 weeks, 2 at   Poipu and 4 at Princeville.  We were really looking forward to being able to spend 6 weeks a year on Kauai during our retirement.

We have friends on the island, I sing Hawaiian at Waioli Huiia Church and send my monthly pledge to the church.  We sent funds to help Kauai recover from Inkik and friends from Kauai sent us money to help us recover from Katrina.  They are friends who have really become family over the years.

I was shocked to learn of the proposal to increase property tax on time shares 75%.  I was more than irritated to have discovered this from Time Sharing Today magazine.  I was never notified by the Kauai Government or the "management companies" of our resorts about the pending tax increase.

Our property taxes here in Texas usually go up every year, more than inflation.

Rather than decrease kamahina property tax rates 31% and increase time share property taxes 75% I'd propose something more realistic like increase kamahina rates 5% a year and time share rates 15% a year.  If it absolutely has to be 75% at least phase it in over several years.

If you are not really careful, you'll kill the goose that laid the golden egg and every one will suffer--tourists won't come, locals won't have the tourist industry bringing in funds, and we won't get to see our beloved Kauai as often as we would like.  Remember there is just a limited amount of money most of us have for vacations.  Round trip airfare from Austin Texas to Lihue was around $750 coach four years ago and now it is over $1100 (a 47% increase)!


Respectfully,

Sterling (Kelina)


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## Werner (Sep 9, 2008)

Sterling, We've been down this road before.  What we are forgetting is that we (timesharers) are known to be cheapskates so no body cares if we don't show up in Hawaii.  We search high and low for discount cards, even suffering though endless timeshare sales presentations just to get a $100 "reward", shop at Costco or Walmart rather than in the "boutiques" at the big resorts, eat at McD's rather than Roy's, cause traffic jams and crowd the locals off the public beaches on weekends instead of spending $500/day at the resort spa.   

Remember a couple of years ago Mayor Battista of Maui made it clear that timesharers were a plague on his beautiful money machine of an island that could only be eradicated with taxes.  

Send your letter if you want to but I suspect that the next sound you hear will be loud cheering coming from Hawaii.


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 9, 2008)

Werner:  I will and I did.

So do you also think Diamond Resorts are properly managing "Our" resort when they can't even notify the owners of a 75% tax increase?

By the way, do you know of anything else that increases 75% in one year?

What is next?  Revaluing the time-shares so we get a double whammy like Maui did to their timeshares?

Sterling


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 9, 2008)

Problem with a class-action law suit is that the lawyers get the majority of the money.  I'm sure it was discussed when Maui jacked up their property tax rates.

It is indeed taxation without representation.  Perhaps when the Monarchy is re-established Hawaiians will look with sympathy on Haole Time-Share owners and allow us Representation in Hawaiian Government so our  taxes are reasonable.  :hysterical: 

Sterling


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## Jim Bryan (Sep 10, 2008)

There will be no "cheering" coming from Hawaii once they realize the mainlanders aren't visiting. I have many friends in Hawaii and they all depend on the tourists to visit, spend money, and stabilize the economy. They are already suffering. It's true, some want us gone and those are now seeing what will happen when the mainlanders don't come. Not all that visit are cheapskates. Some spend all their time in the big Hotels. That's not cheap. I don't use any cards when I go. What I and my Wife do is become friends with the locals and go where they go. We have found them to be very friendly when they know you. We rarely do tourist things. Granted we have met some "Mokes" but we have the same here in Florida. Overall we treat them with respect and get the same back. There are enough problems in Hawaii that their Government can tackle. Unemployment, crime, drugs. 
I'm not sure how adding to the problem of unemployment will help.


Not everyone that visits Florida are desirable either. I worked in the tourist industry and some are real jackasses. Tourism is part of our economy also. A big part. Plus we have a couple of timeshares here too


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## Werner (Sep 10, 2008)

Jim,  the mayor of Maui's issue a couple of years ago was with timesharers, not hotel visitors.  He made it very clear that what they want are visitors who pay full freight.  The tax that Sterling is concerned about appears to be a timeshare tax only.  Hotel visitors are OK.  

The local Gov'ts measure $ spent/visitor/day.  Maui leads the pack and Kauai is trying to catch up.  Timesharers are near the bottom of the spending list, maybe a bit above hippies.    Basically, according to him, we are not paying enough to cover costs of infrastructure needed to support us.  (There was discussion about this on TUG about 2 or 3 years ago when the mayor of Maui proposed his first timeshare tax).  Whether he is right or wrong may be a worthwhile debate, but that thinking appears to be what's behind this recent spate of Gov't imposed timeshare-only fees and taxes.

Sure we are individually all nice people and make friends there but that's not the issue.  You don't have to be a bad person to contribute to traffic jams and crowd the public beaches.  Hawaiian officials see all the Islands as a high-end destination and timesharers get to visit without paying high-end prices.  Basically, we're expendable.


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## UWSurfer (Sep 10, 2008)

It's about balancing the budget on the backs of those who aren't around enough to have a say or a vote in the matter.   IF we were voters, we'd have a stronger dog in fight.

A unit which is occupied by a different family a week at a time is going to have the same foot print as any other resident who is there 52 weeks out of the year.   In fact we still rent cars, buy food, go out and support the economy.   We add to the tourist base and pay for all sorts of things which support the local economy.

The primary difference is since we own, they don't have to attract us to come as we already have a stake there.   However since we only own a week, we're not there long enough to have a vote in government.    It truely is taxation without representation unless our property management companies could cast proxy votes on behalf of the HOA, which could be interesting under the right circumstances.

It's always easier to place taxes on folks who don't vote.  Unfortunately, they seem to do so at a disporportional rate.


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 10, 2008)

*Embarassed*

I pulled out the 2008 maintenance fee paperwork.

Total due per week was $1181.15 and in that total was the real estate tax of $102.84

A 75% increase in real estate taxes would cost us a whopping $77.13 more. 

Wish I hadn't complained to the Council.:ignore: 


Sterling


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## Icarus (Sep 10, 2008)

I was going to ask you how much the difference was going to be, but decided not to. Your actual figures are at the high end of what I thought they might be.

-David


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 10, 2008)

IMHO - a timeshare is going to provide a bigger financial boost to the local economy than a whole ownership condo that is used for vacation rental because that timeshare is going to be occupied almost every day of the year.  A rental condo, though, will have quite a few days when it is not occupied.


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## valbo97 (Sep 10, 2008)

*Kauai taxes*

When they talk about raising taxes remember that the county also has the power to re-assess the property. If Kauai raises tax rates and values the way Maui did the taxes will increase much more than 75% of $100.
Examples of taxes at Sands of Kahana in Maui are:	
3 Bedroom	$535.10 
2 Bedroom	$445.80 
1 Bedroom	$191.30 
These were my tax bills for my 3 weeks in Maui. 
Taxes could increase to similar rates with a combination of increased tax rates and re-assessed values.


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## Hawaiibarb (Sep 10, 2008)

*Wyndham said they knew nothing!*

I'm just back from Kauai, but I heard about the increase in taxes through Timesharing Today, as many of us did.  I wrote a letter to everyone on the council and did not get an acknowledgment from anyone.  I know quite a fe people over there, and at least some of them agreed with me that visitors are important for the local economy (what a concept!).  However, I tested Wyndham about it, when I did the "owner update", and they claimed to know nothing about the increase in taxes.  If they really didn't know, they should have been.  While the poeple on Kauai are as nice as ever, the administration is certainly not welcoming.  First their resistance to the Super Ferry , and now this!


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 11, 2008)

valbo97 said:


> When they talk about raising taxes remember that the county also has the power to re-assess the property. If Kauai raises tax rates and values the way Maui did the taxes will increase much more than 75% of $100.
> Examples of taxes at Sands of Kahana in Maui are:
> 3 Bedroom	$535.10
> 2 Bedroom	$445.80
> ...



Lets hope that the Kauai Council doesn't read TUG and get the idea to reassess time-shares like Maui did.

Sterling


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## Wishiwasatthebeach (Sep 11, 2008)

The Cliffs Timeshare sent us a form letter that is almost a duplicate of Mimi's. I sent it and the only person that replied was Shaylene Carvalho. This her response on July 23:

"Thank you for your comments. I have been away on a National Association of County Officials conference for the past two weeks. The tax reform bill was submitted by the administration. My understanding is that Councilmembers Bynum, Furfaro, and Yukimura have participated in the meetings that led to the proposal. I have not seen the bill as of yet and therefore, do not have an opinion as to the benefits or costs of the proposal.  I will consider your position in evaluating the proposal and after hearing from the administration on its reasoning as to the amendments proposed.

Mahalo,
Shay"


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## Mimi (Sep 12, 2008)

That's very interesting because I received an identical reply from Shaylene Carvalho to my letter.  

"Thank you for your comments. I have been away on a National Association of County Officials conference for the past two weeks. The tax reform bill was submitted by the administration. My understanding is that Council members Bynum, Furfaro, and Yukimura have participated in the meetings that led to the proposal. I have not seen the bill as of yet and therefore, do not have an opinion as to the benefits or costs of the proposal. I will consider your position in evaluating the proposal and after hearing from the administration on its reasoning as to the amendments proposed."

I received no other replies.


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## Wishiwasatthebeach (Sep 12, 2008)

Mimi,
Same here. That was all I heard. No more.


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## talkamotta (Sep 12, 2008)

Kauai Kid said:


> Mel Rapozo, Council Vice Chair                          mfrapozo@kauai.gov
> 
> Tim Bynum, Councilmember                               tbynum@kauai.gov
> 
> ...



Sent letters to each of the Coucil members.  Probably wont do any good.  Sent letters to Maui when they were raising taxes there too.  

Might not do any good but it felt good.  

Hawaii is a beautiful place, thats for sure.  (Thats why I bought 2 1/2 weeks there and want to  buy another week on the BI. )  But Hawaii isnt the only place that has alot to offer.  They have competition at least for my vacation dollar and if things keep going the way they are,  price will begin playing a bigger part.


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## hibbert6 (Sep 20, 2008)

Werner said:


> Jim,  the mayor of Maui's issue a couple of years ago was with timesharers, not hotel visitors.  He made it very clear that what they want are visitors who pay full freight.  The tax that Sterling is concerned about appears to be a timeshare tax only.  Hotel visitors are OK.
> Hawaiian officials see all the Islands as a high-end destination and timesharers get to visit without paying high-end prices.  Basically, we're expendable.



Let's compare: Family of 4

7 nights at a mid-range (?!!?) Poipu hotel = $2100
4x7 breakfasts @ $10                           =    280
4x7 lunches @ $10                               =    280
4x7 dinners @ $25                                =    700
Car Rental 1 week inc. gas                     =    500
TOTAL                                =$3860

Timeshare owner:

1 WEEK  Maint. Fees at Lawai Beach Resort  = $911
Groceries                                                =   250
4x2 lunches out @ $10                              =     80
4x2 dinners out @ $25                               =   200
Car rental + gas                                        =   500
Total                                     = $1941

Therefore, we timeshare owners do spend almost exactly HALF what the high rollers spend.  However, they don't return every year - few can afford to.  Maybe once every 5 years:   Over 20 years = 5 visits x $3860= $19,300 spent.  The T/S owner, however, returns EVERY year: 20 visits x $1941 = $38,820 spent - -   almost exactly DOUBLE what the high end guests spend!  

Sure, if the island's tourist trade was immune to economic and political problems around the world, they might fill their nice hotels every night.  But that can't happen.  So, in the long run, it's the Timeshare owners who bring in (maybe the bulk of) the tourist dollars, because we are consistent, even if we cook our own meals.  

Let all who have ears take heed.

Dave


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## UWSurfer (Sep 20, 2008)

...plus as is noted with all this, ts owners PAY taxes.


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## california-bighorn (Sep 20, 2008)

I agree with the analyse by Dave, but there are a lot more vacation dollars spent than just meals eaten out and rental cars.  Think of the activities that both TS owners and non-owners spend. Example; scuba diving @ $100 to $125 per day. When you factor these kind of expenses, the timeshare owners look even better as it helps even out the costs per visit and is a huge increase in the amount spent over many years.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 21, 2008)

Kauai Kid said:


> First of all:  Mahalo
> 
> What irritates me most of all is the fact that Kauai County didn't notify me personally--darn it I own property and pay taxes.  Seems like the person whose taxes are going to be increased should be notified.
> 
> ...



Wouldn't it make more sense to use absolute values instead of percentage changes?

A $15,000 timeshare would have taxes change from $51.60 to $90.  That is an increase of $38.40.

This thread seems to be an over reaction to such a change.  

Rather than fighting the battle to change win the property tax rate battle, I would be fighting the assessed value.  That $15,000 timeshare is probably worth $2000 now.  If you are assessed the new rate on the lower value, your taxes would be:  $12.

Assessed value is the much more valuable issue to fight rather than tax rate.


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## Icarus (Sep 21, 2008)

BocaBum99 said:


> Assessed value is the much more valuable issue to fight rather than tax rate.



I've said the same thing, but it's easier for people to get POed at the issue and concentrate on the rhetoric and not the facts.

If your assessments are out of line, your associations should be following the county's procedure for appealing them.

For better or worse, Maui and now Kauai have decided to shift tax burden to the tourist industry, and yes that includes hotels too. In theory, it will help some locals stay in their homes, and make tourists pay for the infrastructure needed to support them. Yes, you will pay a higher tax rate than locals do.

If you really want to screw them, buy a house and move here. Your tax rate will be low and you'll get a huge homeowners exemption, and you can pay the high cost of living here that all the locals do.

-David


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## Cathyb (Sep 21, 2008)

David:  If all us timeshare owners in Maui and Kauai decided to sell, your economy in Maui (and Kauai) would suffer immensely.  It's true your taxes would be lower, but not many jobs available for the residents in the hotel/timeshare industry.


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## Icarus (Sep 22, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> David:  If all us timeshare owners in Maui and Kauai decided to sell, your economy in Maui (and Kauai) would suffer immensely.  It's true your taxes would be lower, but not many jobs available for the residents in the hotel/timeshare industry.



I'm sorry, Cathy. I don't see what that has to do with anything in this thread or what I posted here. My post was intended to convey the idea that Jim mentioned first, that your associations should be monitoring the assessed values of your units and appealing them if they are out of whack with reality.

If you want to concentrate on rage that the tax portion of your MFs might go up as much as $40 - $100, feel free to do so. But that's misplaced rage and you aren't going to get anywhere by doing that. On the other hand, if the county has overvalued your units value, your association can get somewhere by following the county's procedure for appealing their assessment.

If you sell your unit, somebody will buy it. Either way somebody will occupy it and somebody will pay the taxes. Unless, of course, you decide to screw yourself financially and let your weeks go unused.

I sold my KBC unit and I'm glad I did. If selling is what makes sense to you, then by all means, feel free to sell it. Selling was the right option for me, and it had nothing to do with the taxes.

Cooler heads will prevail once you realize that the dollar amount of the change isn't that much. And you can still appeal the valuation if they have overvalued your unit.

-David


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 22, 2008)

That is exactly what happened at the Maui Schooner.  The owners appealed, had a law firm represent us, presented good data to the county, and they had no choice but to lower the assessment. 

Sterling


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## McFail (Sep 23, 2008)

To consider a $50/week tax hike not much is not looking at the big picture. Thats a $2600/yr hike per unit. 52 grand a year for a 200 unit resort. Imagine a resort needing an emergency 52 grand repair starting next year and every year after that.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 23, 2008)

Northern Willy said:


> To consider a $50/week tax hike not much is not looking at the big picture. Thats a $2600/yr hike per unit. 52 grand a year for a 200 unit resort. Imagine a resort needing an emergency 52 grand repair starting next year and every year after that.



I completely understand the big picture.  The big picture is stop worrying about the tax rate and start worrying about the assessed value.  If an HOA gets the assessed value down to where it actually is, then the overall tax will go down almost independently of what the tax rate becomes.  What do you not understand about that concept?


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 23, 2008)

hibbert6 said:


> Let's compare: Family of 4
> 
> 7 nights at a mid-range (?!!?) Poipu hotel = $2100
> 4x7 breakfasts @ $10                           =    280
> ...



Dave:  There is another side to this issue not easily quantified.  Since a timeshare vacation is cheaper than a hotel we use the monies saved and are able to go multiple times per year.  At least  in our case, for this year,  it seems like the county is ahead money wise with us as timeshare owners since we will have gone to Maui for 2 weeks and Kauai for 4 weeks.

Next year it doesn't appear we will be going as often, but we have been going to the Islands over 25 years!!

I think some of the $700 Billion bailout should go to us destitute TUG time-share owners.   

Sterling


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