# So Angry!! Foreclosed on



## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

I can't explain the oversight here. I owned WKV and defaulted on my maintenance fees. I was notified of a sale date in March and put on a payment plan which I was advised cancelled the foreclosure. The last two payments didn't go through and I just called to see if I can pay those last two payments today and I was informed it was sold. I wasn't notified of a new sale date or anything!! I thought that I would get the notice of sale date in the mail like the first time. I am so angry but I guess I have no one else to be mad at but myself. Would an attorney help? Should I have been notified? I really miss it-even though I only used it once to trade.


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## SMHarman (Aug 5, 2013)

No Idea, but if they have sold a WKV platinium they should have got at least $13k which is slightly under what the last ebay trade went for.
So they pay off the $1600 of MF and where does the other $11,400 (less other fees) go?


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## Passepartout (Aug 5, 2013)

And an attorney is going to do what?


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 5, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> I can't explain the oversight here. I owned WKV and defaulted on my maintenance fees. I was notified of a sale date in March and put on a payment plan which I was advised cancelled the foreclosure. The last two payments didn't go through and I just called to see if I can pay those last two payments today and I was informed it was sold. I wasn't notified of a new sale date or anything!! I thought that I would get the notice of sale date in the mail like the first time. I am so angry but I guess I have no one else to be mad at but myself. Would an attorney help? Should I have been notified? I really miss it-even though I only used it once to trade.



You are correct.  You have no one else to be mad at but yourself.

Other than ruining your credit, look at the bright side.  It will probably be cheaper to rent the unit from an owner whenever you want to go in the future.   I'll bet that is much cheaper than the loan, the interest and the maintenance fees.


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## Saintsfanfl (Aug 5, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> I can't explain the oversight here. I owned WKV and defaulted on my maintenance fees. I was notified of a sale date in March and put on a payment plan which I was advised cancelled the foreclosure. The last two payments didn't go through and I just called to see if I can pay those last two payments today and I was informed it was sold. I wasn't notified of a new sale date or anything!! I thought that I would get the notice of sale date in the mail like the first time. I am so angry but I guess I have no one else to be mad at but myself. Would an attorney help? Should I have been notified? I really miss it-even though I only used it once to trade.



Arizona is fast but not that fast. Do timeshares work differently? If not, that foreclosure doesn't sound legal. First, they have to record notice. Within 5 days of recording the notice they have to mail a notice to the owner. Second, they cannot perform the foreclosure sale any less than 90 days from the recorded notice.

Did you have a mortgage on it?


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## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> And an attorney is going to do what?



I came here looking for assistance...if I knew what an attorney was going to do I would've called already.


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## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Arizona is fast but not that fast. Do timeshares work differently? If not, that foreclosure doesn't sound legal. First, they have to record notice. Within 5 days of recording the notice they have to mail a notice to the owner. Second, they cannot perform the foreclosure sale any less than 90 days from the recorded notice.
> 
> Did you have a mortgage on it?



I did not have a mortgage. I bought it cash. It sounded weird but I didn't get anything in writing which is why I came here to see if it sounded legit. I am just wondering if the first notice of which they said was cancelled is the only notice they needed to send.


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## czar (Aug 5, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> I did not have a mortgage. I bought it cash. It sounded weird but I didn't get anything in writing which is why I came here to see if it sounded legit. I am just wondering if the first notice of which they said was cancelled is the only notice they needed to send.



We're you only behind the current year's MF?


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## sjsharkie (Aug 5, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> I did not have a mortgage. I bought it cash. It sounded weird but I didn't get anything in writing which is why I came here to see if it sounded legit. I am just wondering if the first notice of which they said was cancelled is the only notice they needed to send.



This does sound weird that it happened so quickly.  If you were paid up on all mfs except for current year (2013), I would think that SVO would owe you the balance between the fmv and mfs in arrears.

Unless this differs from general real estate, SVO/HOA does not get to enrich themselves with the entire proceeds if all you were in arrears for was a year of mfs.  That being said, I'm not sure what you owned (season/size).

-ryan


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## lilpooh108 (Aug 5, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> I just called to see if I can pay those last two payments today and I was informed it was sold.



But you don't actually KNOW that it was sold.

Call back and ask them to fax you their file, including notices, etc.

Or, look up the deed/chain of title yourself with the county recorder and figure out how far it got in the process.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 5, 2013)

It does not sound as if just the 2013 MFs hadn't been paid - otherwise it would not have been foreclosed on quickly.  How many years were you behind?
And you stated that for the payment plan 'the last 2 payments didn't go through' - not sure what 'didn't go though' means?  Didn't pay in time - or paid, but somehow was not accounted for, or payment was not good (bounced), and did not check to insure that it went through?

not enough info to give useful feedback... other than speculation

as you are worried about this being a scam (being legit) - I would be as well... I would contact the HOA via SVO and inquire - and ask these questions of WKV-SVO (before asking on TUG).


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## Passepartout (Aug 5, 2013)

They had already notified you of a sale date. Then for reasons not entirely made clear, '2 payments didn't go through'. It looks to me like they simply carried on with a pre-set sale date. If the payments you made were not posted, it's the same as them not being made. Lack of payment would not 'cancel' the foreclosure, or even put it on hold.

Since you got the notice of foreclosure back in March, I have a hunch it was more than just the 2013 MF that is owed- well, WAS owed- it isn't owed anymore. I don't think there is any requirement for additional notification of sale after one is given and there is not a record of payment being made to bring the account up to date.

Sorry. Sometimes life is what happens when we're busy doing something else.

Jim


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## SMHarman (Aug 5, 2013)

sjsharkie said:


> This does sound weird that it happened so quickly.  If you were paid up on all mfs except for current year (2013), I would think that SVO would owe you the balance between the fmv and mfs in arrears.
> 
> Unless this differs from general real estate, SVO/HOA does not get to enrich themselves with the entire proceeds if all you were in arrears for was a year of mfs.  That being said, I'm not sure what you owned (season/size).
> 
> -ryan



Very smelly.  The week I bought was 5 months delinquent when it closed and the MF was paid from Escrow.  From what I could understand no such threats from the HOA, just late fees.  I was even advised that loss of use year was not something to worry about.


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## SMHarman (Aug 5, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> It does not sound as if just the 2013 MFs hadn't been paid - otherwise it would not have been foreclosed on quickly.  How many years were you behind?
> And you stated that for the payment plan 'the last 2 payments didn't go through' - not sure what 'didn't go though' means?  Didn't pay in time - or paid, but somehow was not accounted for, or payment was not good (bounced), and did not check to insure that it went through?
> 
> not enough info to give useful feedback... other than speculation
> ...


With no mortgage it would be the HOA not SVO that would foreclose.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 5, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> With no mortgage it would be the HOA not SVO that would foreclose.



Yes - you are correct - it is the HOA - what I meant really was to make sure you follow-up with the appropriate group and not assume...


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## Passepartout (Aug 5, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> With no mortgage it would be the HOA not SVO that would foreclose.



I agree. I don't think we have all the facts here. The laws governing how much notice, how long the arrearage has to go on before foreclosure is allowed are all state laws. I haven't read the OP's contract with the resort, so everything said here is pure speculation. 

Other people's experience with other resorts and associations in different states are immaterial.

On the surface of it, this thing stinks, but I'd make a small unspecified wager that the HOA conformed with state law before they foreclosed.

Jim


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## csxjohn (Aug 5, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> I agree. I don't think we have all the facts here. The laws governing how much notice, how long the arrearage has to go on before foreclosure is allowed are all state laws. I haven't read the OP's contract with the resort, so everything said here is pure speculation.
> 
> Other people's experience with other resorts and associations in different states are immaterial.
> 
> On the surface of it, this thing stinks, but I'd make a small unspecified wager that the HOA conformed with state law before they foreclosed.Jim



Maybe they did and maybe they didn't but I'd make the same wager that Arizona does not allow the HOA to keep the proceeds of the sale, but just enough to settle the debt.


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## SMHarman (Aug 5, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> Other people's experience with other resorts and associations in different states are immaterial.
> 
> On the surface of it, this thing stinks, but I'd make a small unspecified wager that the HOA conformed with state law before they foreclosed.
> 
> Jim


^
|
|<---I agree but my experience is with the same resort and the same association in the same state.  
(though admittedly I did not make that bit crystal clear in the original post).


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## VacationForever (Aug 5, 2013)

It is a shame that delinquent MF can result in the owner losing a timeshare that has quite a bit of value.  We do not know of the circumstances as to why OP let this happen and maybe he can't either as in his first sentence: "I can't explain the oversight here.".  

I am also wondering how many years of MF are being owed.  It appears that it would more than just 2013 MF fees.  OP had posted in 2010 that he was making an offer on a WKV.  I also think that the inability to pay is also not the cause of delinquent MF.


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## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

I did leave a lot out. I was pissed-so sorry. This is 2 years worth of maintenance fees and as Passepartout said this is what happens when I'm busy doing something else. 

I was notified last year that it would go into foreclosure. I made a move when I was notified of a sale date in February (sale date was in March) they put me on a payment plan which I thought at the time cancelled the foreclosure. Instead it postponed it. The last two payments of the payment plan didn't not process because the funds weren't available. So they proceeded with the sale. 

Here was my thought, I thought once they got a new sale date they should have notified me but now that I have had hours to think about it and I've actually spoken to as many people (knowledgeable) on the subject, they didn't have to. The postponement was just that...i thought they had to file for foreclosure all over again if I were to default on the payment plan. 

As it turns out, the HOA bought it, For the past due fees only. No one else bid on it. So I understand now that had it gone for more than that I would've received some money back but it didn't.

I thank you all for the input. I am still pissed but I understand the lesson here. I hit a rough patch and sometimes I have to learn to let go of what I can't hold on to. I didn't understand at the time what was going to happen. I own a few more. It won't happen again and hopefully I will find something  better out there or hit the powerball this week. Did I mention I'm pissed? 

Oh and there's no redemption period. I am still going to call the HOA tomorrow to see if they have something to add.


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## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

sptung said:


> It is a shame that delinquent MF can result in the owner losing a timeshare that has quite a bit of value.  We do not know of the circumstances as to why OP let this happen and maybe he can't either as in his first sentence: "I can't explain the oversight here.".
> 
> I am also wondering how many years of MF are being owed.  It appears that it would more than just 2013 MF fees.  OP had posted in 2010 that he was making an offer on a WKV.  I also think that the inability to pay is also not the cause of delinquent MF.



I think that's the part I can't really wrap my head around. I paid 17K and lost it for 2K. That ish hurts me to the core..but that's the nature of the game. I'm a she and didn't pay 2 years.


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## Passepartout (Aug 5, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> I think that's the part I can't really wrap my head around. I paid 17K and lost it for 2K. That ish hurts me to the core..but that's the nature of the game. I'm a she and didn't pay 2 years.



I don't know your contract or Arizona law, but feel that in fairness, you should be refunded the difference between what you owed, and what the proceeds of the sale were. The sale price should be public record in the county where the TS is. 

Sorry this happened, but does help us answer the question that has been asked many times here on TUG, "What happens if I just quit paying?" Oh, you might check your credit score, 'cause a foreclosure usually doesn't do them any good.

Jim


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## LisaRex (Aug 5, 2013)

If you couldn't afford MFs, you could have sold it for quite a bit of money.  That stinks.  It also stinks that other owners were left holding the bag for 2 years of your delinquent fees.  You do know that Starwood just passes along your delinquent fees to other owners, right?  And for that privilege, we get zippo, not even a few piddly SOs.

So I'm actually glad that the HOA foreclosed on you so that owner wouldn't be left holding the bag yet another year. I do think it would have been very nice  had they sold it on the open market and given you the proceeds of the sale minus delinquent MFs and a generous listing fee, but they're not in that game.

You learned quite a hard lesson, I'm afraid.  Hope things turn around for you.


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## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> I don't know your contract or Arizona law, but feel that in fairness, you should be refunded the difference between what you owed, and what the proceeds of the sale were. The sale price should be public record in the county where the TS is.
> 
> Sorry this happened, but does help us answer the question that has been asked many times here on TUG, "What happens if I just quit paying?" Oh, you might check your credit score, 'cause a foreclosure usually doesn't do them any good.
> 
> Jim



Jim, the sale price was 2K. They started the bid at what I owed and that was it.  Each time I come back here, I'm hurt. lol


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## DeniseM (Aug 5, 2013)

> I can't explain the oversight here. I owned WKV and defaulted on my maintenance fees. I was notified of a sale date in March and put on a payment plan which I was advised cancelled the foreclosure. *The last two payments didn't go through *



What happened with the last 2 payments?  That is undoubtedly what triggered the foreclosure and sale.  Since you were already in default, they probably did not have to give you a second warning.  If you got the first notice in March, I'm guessing that you made 1 payment on the repayment plan and then missed the next 2?


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## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> If you couldn't afford MFs, you could have sold it for quite a bit of money.  That stinks.  It also stinks that other owners were left holding the bag for 2 years of your delinquent fees.  You do know that Starwood just passes along your delinquent fees to other owners, right?  And for that privilege, we get zippo, not even a few piddly SOs.
> 
> So I'm actually glad that the HOA foreclosed on you so that owner wouldn't be left holding the bag yet another year. I do think it would have been very nice  had they sold it on the open market and given you the proceeds of the sale minus delinquent MFs and a generous listing fee, but they're not in that game.
> 
> You learned quite a hard lesson, I'm afraid.  Hope things turn around for you.



I didn't know this and it sucks that you're glad I was in foreclosure. In hindsight I should've sold it but I had tons going on and it never crossed my mind.


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## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

DeniseM said:


> What happened with the last 2 payments?  That is undoubtedly what triggered the foreclosure and sale.  Since you were already in default, they probably did not have to give you a second warning.



Exactly...the card I set up for the payments couldn't be charged for the second to last payment. They didn't even try to take two at the last month but the one didn't process and that set the wheels in motion.


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## Passepartout (Aug 5, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> Jim, the sale price was 2K. They started the bid at what I owed and that was it.  Each time I come back here, I'm hurt. lol



That's too bad. One could easily see it as thievery, because you can bet your bippie that the HOA doesn't want it to use and it will go into the pool of inventory that will be ultimately sold (again) for a handsome profit.

I'm sorry this happened to you, and hope you get your feet back under you. It was a tough and expensive lesson.


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## DeniseM (Aug 5, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> Exactly...*the card I set up for the payments **couldn't be charged for the second to last payment.* They didn't even try to take two at the last month but the one didn't process and that set the wheels in motion.



I'm still unclear on this - why couldn't the card be charged for the payments?  

Was this Starwood's error, or the credit card company's error, or did you Max out the credit card that you set up the payments on?


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## hypnotiq (Aug 5, 2013)

Insufficient funds I believe.



> didn't not process because the funds weren't available.


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## jarta (Aug 5, 2013)

I think you got everything you deserved.  You were 2 years behind, were notified of the impending foreclosure, couldn't come up with the money, were placed in a installment program to delay the sale (not the judgment) in order to show good faith by paying the 2-year (+ by then) delinquency, sent in NSF checks for 2 months, violated the installment program to pay of the delinquencies and so the sale to enforce the judgment went forward.

I own at WKV.  Now, I won't have to pay the MFs you have neglected to pay because you "were busy doing something else."

As you originally posted, you have nobody to blame but yourself.   Salty


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 5, 2013)

Could *also* have been the card expiration date was expired - OP could have gotten a new card, but the auto pay would have been denied as expiration date was wrong.

How do I know this so well? Wyndham has done this to me ... claimed I did not pay the MFs and profits from the notice & late charges. As wonderful and advanced the Wyndham computer systems are, it is amazing :hysterical: they can not and will not send an email notice to owners prior to their credit card's expiration dates. Wait, that would fall under customer service or is it under added revenue income?


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## DeniseM (Aug 5, 2013)

hypnotiq said:


> Insufficient funds I believe.



I missed that - thank you - I thought it was some kind of credit card processing error.


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## bogey21 (Aug 5, 2013)

Unfortunately Sugar Apple wasn't paying attention.  Once she was put on a payment plan and the payments didn't go through it was game, set. match.  I think the way it was handled by the Resort was both legal and proper.   Had she made sure the payments cleared she would still own her Week.

George


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## sugar apple (Aug 5, 2013)

vacationhopeful said:


> Could *also* have been the card expiration date was expired - OP could have gotten a new card, but the auto pay would have been denied as expiration date was wrong.



This is exactly what happened. The card expired. 

@jarta the comment "busy doing something else" was a quote I pulled from someone else that sounded better than "a boatload of financial pitfalls due to a horrible economic crisis I experienced in the last two years" I wasn't on an island sipping coladas while other owners ate my late fees or missed fees. I didn't come here seeking solace, I posted here right away thinking I had a recourse since it INITIALLY sounded strange to me. I admit my shortcomings and I could have done things differently starting with understanding that the foreclosure was postponed and not withdrawn. But don't come in my like you know my situation..you don't and at this point the post should serve as a reference for other owners who may find themselves in my predicament..cause I am almost positive I am not the only one it will happen to. I never sent in any NSF checks so post with some intelligence please. And since my neglected MFs are the only ones that you've had to pay, you can now breathe an even deeper sigh of relief. Can't you? Imps.


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## DeniseM (Aug 5, 2013)

Folks - I have deleted a post in this thread.  If you can't be civil, please don't post. 



> Be Courteous
> As we read and respond to others, disagreements are inevitable. Differing points of view are welcomed, and indeed the bbs would be a dull place without them. All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly.* Refrain from name calling and behavior lectures. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offenses could get you banned from the bbs. *Lively discussion is what the board is all about, but that is no excuse for boorish behavior or bad manners. We are assumed to all be adults. If you don't like a particular thread, stop reading it!


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## Saintsfanfl (Aug 6, 2013)

With Arizona, there really isn't a foreclosure "filing" like they do in most states. The court is not involved. It is really just a notice filing and then the public newspaper postings and public auction. These days people don't really notice the auction notifications especially for a timeshare and with Arizona it could be located anywhere so the HOA may have been the only party present at the auction.

If foreclosure auctions ever catch up to modern times instead of being stuck in the 1850's the final bids will end alot higher in many cases. These days it should be a simultaneous live and online auction.


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## Passepartout (Aug 6, 2013)

This entire thread will be a good one to have handy for those times when someone asks "What happens if I just quit paying my MF?" Except we still don't know if or how much damage Sugar Apple did to her credit, and of course time will tell how long it will take to repair it. From her narrative, it may have been less than perfect before the foreclosure.

Expensive lesson.

Jim


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## Ken555 (Aug 6, 2013)

Wow. Sorry to hear this happen to anyone, but good to know how it's done. I'm near WKV this week...I'd like to know where they advertise these sales... 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## SMHarman (Aug 6, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Wow. Sorry to hear this happen to anyone, but good to know how it's done. I'm near WKV this week...I'd like to know where they advertise these sales...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Was thinking the same thing. 


Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## Saintsfanfl (Aug 6, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Wow. Sorry to hear this happen to anyone, but good to know how it's done. I'm near WKV this week...I'd like to know where they advertise these sales...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Unfortunately since the HOA cannot legally keep the excess proceeds, they have no motivation to put forth much effort. That said it has to be available to the public and I believe that means the local newspaper. This is a good exercise because perhaps we can generate an information network of foreclosure sales.


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## jarta (Aug 6, 2013)

Ken555 said:


> Wow. Sorry to hear this happen to anyone, but good to know how it's done. I'm near WKV this week...I'd like to know where they advertise these sales...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Check the bulletin board in the resort.  Also recommended, getting to know the trustee.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/33/02211.htm&Title=33&DocType=ARS   Salty


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## margolism (Aug 6, 2013)

I would imagine the OPs credit may have already been impacted, even before the foreclosure, due to the late payments on the maintenance. 

Not sure how time share companies treat that and if they report missed or late maintenance payments to credit reporting agencies.  Does anyone know?

Also, can someone confirm whether or not Starwood sends or does not send notification of expired credit cards for payment of annual maintenance fees?


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## tschwa2 (Aug 6, 2013)

LisaRex said:


> If you couldn't afford MFs, you could have sold it for quite a bit of money.  That stinks.  It also stinks that other owners were left holding the bag for 2 years of your delinquent fees.  You do know that Starwood just passes along your delinquent fees to other owners, right?  And for that privilege, we get zippo, not even a few piddly SOs.
> 
> So I'm actually glad that the HOA foreclosed on you so that owner wouldn't be left holding the bag yet another year. I do think it would have been very nice  had they sold it on the open market and given you the proceeds of the sale minus delinquent MFs and a generous listing fee, but they're not in that game.
> 
> You learned quite a hard lesson, I'm afraid.  Hope things turn around for you.



I think some of this is a bit harsh considering it is a platinum 2 br.  I doubt anything got added to the other owners bills because Starwood can rent the inventory, take their commission and other fees and reimburse the HOA the remaining amount and would probably only have had to rent out 3 days to do so.  Not that it should have to do this and it certainly isn't a long term solution.  

It would also be nice if HOA's were involved enough that it could send out a note to delinquent owners within the first 6 months of missing MF's to send them info about TUG or some other resource that could really help owners understand their options when they can not or chose not to pay.


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## VacationForever (Aug 6, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> I think some of this is a bit harsh considering it is a platinum 2 br.  I doubt anything got added to the other owners bills because Starwood can rent the inventory, take their commission and other fees and reimburse the HOA the remaining amount and would probably only have had to rent out 3 days to do so.  Not that it should have to do this and it certainly isn't a long term solution.
> 
> It would also be nice if HOA's were involved enough that it could send out a note to delinquent owners within the first 6 months of missing MF's to send them info about TUG or some other resource that could really help owners understand their options when they can not or chose not to pay.



SVO rentals are for SVO owned units.  It does not get into renting out units that belong to other owners.  Delinquent MFs are passed on to other paying owners' MF bills. 

We all know there are consequences to not paying our bills.  If you don't pay utility bills you get your electricity shut off.  Where I am in California if you don't pay your water bills you get a lien put on your house.  Losing a timeshare because of not paying MF is an expected consequence.


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## momeason (Aug 6, 2013)

Sugar Apple,
I am sorry this happened. I understand that the timeshare would have been lower on your list than other pressing concerns and payments. It was very unfortunate that the credit card expired. I was unable to make reservations on my Wyndham account once and it was because the credit card expired. I called them and said..why did you not send me a notice? I was pissed. Any other company sends a notice if your card expires. I was able to correct it in time, but it is a bad system.
Timeshare companies do not operate in good faith. We all know that. They do everything they can to make money without blatantly breaking the law.
Here on TUG we learn how to uese our knowledge of how they operate to our advantage.
I, for one, am very sorry that you did not get the chance to catch up your fees and keep your investment.
It was a difficult pill to swallow and I am sorry. I hope things are improving for you otherwise.


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## jarta (Aug 6, 2013)

margolism said:


> I would imagine the OPs credit may have already been impacted, even before the foreclosure, due to the late payments on the maintenance.
> 
> Not sure how time share companies treat that and if they report missed or late maintenance payments to credit reporting agencies.  Does anyone know?
> 
> Also, can someone confirm whether or not Starwood sends or does not send notification of expired credit cards for payment of annual maintenance fees?



If the procedure in the statute I linked above is followed, no deficiency judgment is entered - only the order allowing the trustee to sell the delinquent property listed.  However, if information about the delinquency was sent to a credit agency, the delinquency will show.  I don't know what the procedure is.  It may depend on the amount owed and the preferences of the board of directors of the resort.

Deeds in lieu of foreclosure are also allowed as an alternative to foreclosure.  There is no indication the delinquent OP bothered to pursue this alternative.

The delinquent OP should pull a credit report.  But, given what has been disclosed in the OP's last posts, the delinquent MFs at WKV would not be the only adverse information that would show.

Timeshares are property.  Responsibilities come with ownership.  AZ law is not friendly and fuzzy for TS owners who fail to pay MFs.  The foreclosure can be started after 1 year.  WKV started after 2.   Salty


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## sugar apple (Aug 6, 2013)

jarta said:


> If the procedure in the statute I linked above is followed, no deficiency judgment is entered - only the order allowing the trustee to sell the delinquent property listed.  However, if information about the delinquency was sent to a credit agency, the delinquency will show.  I don't know what the procedure is.  It may depend on the amount owed and the preferences of the board of directors of the resort.
> 
> Deeds in lieu of foreclosure are also allowed as an alternative to foreclosure.  There is no indication the delinquent OP bothered to pursue this alternative.
> 
> ...



Just for clarification, what in my original post implies to you that there is adverse information on my credit report? Did I mention somewhere that my credit was poor? I am so curious as to how these assumptions are made...

And for the record, late fees nor the foreclosure are showing up on my credit report, as of last night at 11PM...for those that were asking.


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## Passepartout (Aug 6, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> And for the record, late fees nor the foreclosure are showing up on my credit report, as of last night at 11PM...for those that were asking.



No reason to get testy. We have had several people in similar situations to yours post here over the years. Most often, they have received letters or phone calls from collection agencies threatening credit ruination as a prelude to foreclosure. Your situation of simply going directly to foreclosure without a nasty credit report or turning you over to collection is unusual.

Jim


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## jarta (Aug 6, 2013)

sugar apple said:


> Just for clarification, what in my original post implies to you that there is adverse information on my credit report? Did I mention somewhere that my credit was poor? I am so curious as to how these assumptions are made...
> 
> And for the record, late fees nor the foreclosure are showing up on my credit report, as of last night at 11PM...for those that were asking.



The assumption did not come from anything you said in your original post starting this thread.  The assumption was made because you posted this in post #35 about not paying 2 years of MFs:



> @jarta the comment "busy doing something else" was a quote I pulled from someone else that sounded better than "a boatload of financial pitfalls due to a horrible economic crisis I experienced in the last two years" I wasn't on an island sipping coladas while other owners ate my late fees or missed fees



My apologies if your "horrible economic crisis" did not result in any adverse information getting on your credit report.  You would be an unusually lucky person if nothing is on the report.  Salty


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 6, 2013)

Sugar-apple - please remember that this is a diverse and often opinionated group (myself included) - don't let one 'bad apple' (that apparently prefers salt over sugar) ruin it for you, or set you off.  Most here are sympathetic - or at least understanding and reasonable in their social interactions.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 6, 2013)

Sugar Apple, 

I am sorry for what happened to you.  It was an expensive lesson for sure.  I would be angry, too, because the week with Staroptions was really quite valuable.  You could have reserved Harborside and rented it for the fees owed.  Too bad TUG members did not know your situation before the HOA foreclosed.  Someone would have found value in those SO's enough to rent them from you for what you owed.  I am pretty sure of it.  

I wish you the best.  

Don't let one caustic person keep you from TUG.  I usually have him on ignore, but I took that ignore off.  Some others have been abrasive more than usual, too.  Some have surprised me.  But sympathy doesn't come easily to everyone.


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## SMHarman (Aug 6, 2013)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Sugar Apple,
> 
> I am sorry for what happened to you.  It was an expensive lesson for sure.  I would be angry, too, because the week with Staroptions was really quite valuable.  You could have reserved Harborside and rented it for the fees owed.  Too bad TUG members did not know your situation before the HOA foreclosed.  Someone would have found value in those SO's enough to rent them from you for what you owed.  I am pretty sure of it.
> 
> ...


Erm, except that is not allowed, you can only rent a home resort reservation (and potentially a home resort reservation in the season you own).  
However a home resort reserving each side for the second or third week in March when spring training is on should have cleared one years MF with $ to spare for the second year past due.
Of course until the MF was brought up to date reserving a week was probably not possible thus creating a catch 22.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 6, 2013)

rickandcindy23 said:


> You could have reserved Harborside and rented it for the fees owed.  Too bad TUG members did not know your situation before the HOA foreclosed.  Someone would have found value in those SO's enough to rent them from you for what you owed.



Cindy - don't mean to be abrasive  - but renting non-HomeResort SOs are against SVO/SVN rules (similar to renting II exchanges).  SVO/SVN are aware of this, and stated that rules would be enforced if known or discovered.  It is unclear whether SVO/SVN is active in checking or enforcing.  Proceed at your own risk, but Tuggers should be aware and not openly endorse or encourage this (like what happens when the topic of renting II exchanges comes up...)


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## Passepartout (Aug 6, 2013)

At this stage, all the speculation and 'shoulda, coulda, woulda' talk is moot. Sugar Apple said she was busy. Too busy to make sure the card she put her late MF on hadn't expired. She was certainly too busy to rent a week, and probably would have had to be paid-up on MF to get a week to use or rent anyway. She got out of it with (she says and we assume) her credit intact, and now doesn't owe MF on this TS.

What we now know is that in Arizona, if your TS is a year behind, they can publish notice in some obscure- though public- newspaper, then hold a phony auction and buy it back to the HOA or management to sell again- and again. Only one letter of notice is required and in 60 days it's gone. I find this interesting because I own an Arizona TS week.

Her misfortune has been a learning experience for everyone. I'm sorry it happened but actually I think lots of us would happily forfeit our TSs for a clean credit report and no more MFs.

Jim


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## sugar apple (Aug 6, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Sugar-apple - please remember that this is a diverse and often opinionated group (myself included) - don't let one 'bad apple' (that apparently prefers salt over sugar) ruin it for you, or set you off.  Most here are sympathetic - or at least understanding and reasonable in their social interactions.



Thanks! I know that the world consists of the bad apples so I 'm ready for them. But I don't post much and when I do, I come here for advice. I already swallowed my pill (its stuck in my throat actually) but I know I won't be the first or the last in the situation so I said let me post on Tug in case someone out there finds themselves in the same position I'm in. I didn't expect to hear "oh I'm glad you lost it" or "I got everything I deserved" as if I've been on here dodging fees and laughing at my fellow owners at the fact that they have to cover my share. I am not terribly surprised though, misery loves to lurk on the internet and cackle at people's misfortunes. 

I own 3 other great timeshares and I will buy Starwood again (as soon as I stop wishing misfortune on the entire HOA)  and I guarantee it won't happen to me again.  I just really wanted to know if they were required to tell of the new sale date. That was really all I was wanting to know. I did find out a lot though. Again, thank you all for your input.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 6, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> Cindy - don't mean to be abrasive  - but renting non-HomeResort SOs are against SVO/SVN rules (similar to renting II exchanges).  SVO/SVN are aware of this, and stated that rules would be enforced if known or discovered.  It is unclear whether SVO/SVN is active in checking or enforcing.  Proceed at your own risk, but Tuggers should be aware and not openly endorse or encourage this (like what happens when the topic of renting II exchanges comes up...)



Well, I don't own any Staroptions, so I don't have to worry about it.  But I do know someone who owns SV Bella, several units, and he does just that.


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## timeos2 (Aug 6, 2013)

*Good management acts ASAP*

This whole thread has two significant points. One is that it is important that owners stay on top of their payment status. If the resort forgets to send a bill that still wouldn't mean you don't owe. And in many states now a general notice sent to all owners at billing can serve as the only required notice that if it goes unpaid you can have it rented out from under you and/or it can be foreclosed.  Yes there likely will be other notices, and in this case the OP clearly was notified that the action had begun as they had made partial payment but then failed to make the final 2.  

The second point is a well run HOA won't let debt get "stale". They will act as quickly as possible to collect and, if necessary and within the law, foreclose as that may minimize the expense to the Association (the Owners). Yes it's cold but it is the best business path. While we can feel sorry for the OP we should also applaud the Association / Management for being on top of payments and being aggressive doing so. 

All in all an important lesson for us and a costly one for the OP.  Those who think resorts won't act can see here that it can be and will be done by some. Assuming yours won't may turn out to be a bad bet.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 6, 2013)

sptung said:


> SVO rentals are for SVO owned units.  It does not get into renting out units that belong to other owners.  Delinquent MFs are passed on to other paying owners' MF bills.
> 
> We all know there are consequences to not paying our bills.  If you don't pay utility bills you get your electricity shut off.  Where I am in California if you don't pay your water bills you get a lien put on your house.  Losing a timeshare because of not paying MF is an expected consequence.



I haven't read the documents for all SVO resorts but I believe most allow SVO (but doesn't require them) to rent out any unreserved units at either 30 or 60 days.  Some of these are from owners who paid MF's and never bothered to reserve anything and some are from HOA controlled inventory like delinquent accounts or foreclosed accounts to which the HOA is still responsible)  SVO takes a commission and takes out for any other incurred fees (like extra housekeeping) and turns over the rest to the HOA to mitigate some of the lost fees by owners who don't pay.

At popular resorts in high season, it is generally not the platinum weeks that cause problems for the other owners.  First because there are many fewer who default during this season and second because they can be rented to cover the cost.  SVO will rent their own inventory first where they get to keep 100% of the profit but if they have weeks that they can access and still make some profit they are not going to turn down a potential renter and let the HOA controlled inventory sit empty.


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## DavidnRobin (Aug 6, 2013)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Well, I don't own any Staroptions, so I don't have to worry about it.  But I do know someone who owns SV Bella, several units, and he does just that.



It is well understood that this goes on (just like renting II exchanges goes on) - but what became an issue (with a few Tuggers getting pissed at me for following up with the SVP of SVN Owner Services for clarification of the rule in the CCRs) when it was becoming commonplace for certain Tuggers to recommend renting non-HomeResort SOs on this forum that is against the SVO/SVN CCRs (without mentioning this critical point...) - that specifically states that these types are rentals (using non-HomeResort SOs) are not allowed and the week could be subject to fortfeiture if discovered.  It is okay to rent SOs obtained from a Home Resort at the Home Resort - it is not okay to use those SOs to rent at another resort.

SVO/SVN is aware that this is going on.  They have specifically stated that it is not allowed (aligned with CCRs - what else can they say?), and will take action if aware.  Therefore, it is possible that a renter of these SOs could potentially be surprised when checking in.  Also, that some Tuggers doing this were also unaware that this practice is not allowed since this recommendation was becoming commonplace .  I wasn't aware until the topic arose and I found the specfic clause in the SVO/SVN Owner's Manual (as I was planning to reserve WKORV/N with WKV SOs).  It is unknown whether it is being enforced by SVO/SVN - or planned to be enforced - as they are some obvious logistic issues to enforcement.  I would be surprised if they don't enforce in the long run because this practice competes with their own rental pool which is a hefty profit generator..  

However, one of the issues around this (among a few) was the this activity was being openly recommended by Tuggers on this TUG forum as a tactic to maximize profit on their MFs without stating the important caveat that it is against SVO/SVN rules.  However, if anyone brought up the topic of renting II exchanges - they were immediately told that this was against II rules.  IMO - this was because a certain faction of people are using this process (renting non-Home SOs) for profit motive and nothing more - as it sounds that this SVV Bella Owner is doing - but I am certain they are not telling their renters this detail.


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## LisaRex (Aug 6, 2013)

tschwa2 said:


> I haven't read the documents for all SVO resorts but I believe most allow SVO (but doesn't require them) to rent out any unreserved units at either 30 or 60 days.  Some of these are from owners who paid MF's and never bothered to reserve anything and some are from HOA controlled inventory like delinquent accounts or foreclosed accounts to which the HOA is still responsible)  SVO takes a commission and takes out for any other incurred fees (like extra housekeeping) and turns over the rest to the HOA to mitigate some of the lost fees by owners who don't pay.



I believe you are mistaken.  Per, the Owners Agreement, SVO, NOT the HOA, gets to pocket the rental income (bolding mine):

"The Developer has the right to reserve any Use Periods that, *for any reason,* are not reserved as of sixty (60) days before the Check-In Day. *The Developer may keep the rent* but must reimburse the Association for any resulting increase in expenses for housekeeping expenses for housekeeping services in excess of the amount allocated for those services in the assessment for maintenance for the use or rental."

One of my beefs with the SVO system is that the HOA SHOULD, in fairness, get control of all delinquent inventory, so that they can make paying owners whole.  Instead SVO gets control of it. 

(Note that I am quote WKORV-N's OA. I don't have access to WKV's, but I assume it has similar language.)


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## SueDonJ (Aug 6, 2013)

*Moderator Note:*  I think now I've seen everything.  An old (2007) Marriott thread begun by this OP was brought out of mothballs today by a TUGger who is participating in this thread, presumably to call attention to the OP's past acts in light of her current unfortunate situation?  I don't know, but for whatever reason it's bad form.  Not necessary at all.  That thread has been locked and today's posts deleted from it.  Don't do it again.


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## Saintsfanfl (Aug 6, 2013)

SueDonJ said:


> *Moderator Note:*  I think now I've seen everything.  An old (2007) Marriott thread begun by this OP was brought out of mothballs today by a TUGger who is participating in this thread, presumably to call attention to the OP's past acts in light of her current unfortunate situation?  I don't know, but for whatever reason it's bad form.  Not necessary at all.  That thread has been locked and today's posts deleted from it.  Don't do it again.



I saw that. Talk about kicking someone while they are on the ground. What is the point?

:annoyed:


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## sugar apple (Aug 6, 2013)

*Where Am I When This Stuff Happens*

Seriously folks...apparently the thread was deleted, (thank you SueDonJ) but if there are questions stemming from 2007-2013 I will gladly answer them. I bought two properties Marriott & Starwood in cash. No loans and fell on hard times in 2011. Has this never happened to a TUGger? What is it that you'd like to know about my transaction that you needed to pull up the 2007 post? Ask me...send me a PM... let me go dig it out the grave and see what you could possibly assume. I swear....


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## sugar apple (Aug 6, 2013)

*Ahhh the sickness*

ahhh well what can I say, things were good back then.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 6, 2013)

SueDonJ said:


> *Moderator Note:*  I think now I've seen everything.  An old (2007) Marriott thread begun by this OP was brought out of mothballs today by a TUGger who is participating in this thread, presumably to call attention to the OP's past acts in light of her current unfortunate situation?  I don't know, but for whatever reason it's bad form.  Not necessary at all.  That thread has been locked and today's posts deleted from it.  Don't do it again.



I have no idea what the motives of that person were.  But it was in bad taste.  I commented that it was an old thread, six years old.


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## DeniseM (Aug 6, 2013)

I think we are done here...


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