# Shanghai for a Family?



## hibbeln (Mar 26, 2006)

My husband is going to be travelling to Shanghai on business (with GM) several times between now and August.  I was thinking that MAYBE the kids and I (two boys, ages 11 & closing in on 9) would tag along for a week with him on one of the trips.  The company would be paying for his hotel room, so....?!.....if we could find tickets that weren't TOO outrageous...?!?!?  

But I know nothing about Shanghai.  Zero. Zip. Zilch.  Never even travelled in Asia.  My husband would be working the whole time, leaving the boys and I to do whatever we wanted.  Anyone have any thoughts on Shanghai and what there is to do there in a family sight-seeing kind of way?  I'm not even sure if this will work out with their school schedule and my office schedule, but before I delve any deeper I figured the experts at TUG would be the first place to stop!


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## DianeG (Mar 27, 2006)

*Shanghai for family*

I took my then-12-yr son to China and he really liked it. However, he was already well-travelled by then.

China is fascinating and quirky. If you all go with an open mind, *knowing* that you will certainly not be *at all* in a familiar environment, you should enjoy it as much as we did.

Getting around on your own can/will be a bit of a challenge. Gray Line tours offers some great excursions in Shanghai, I can recommend them highly.

http://www.grayline.com/franchise.cfm/action/details/id/182

Be also aware that getting there is a long travel day, crossing the int'l date line. For a week, only Shanghai would be just right. 

Hope this helps.


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## LisaH (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi Debi,

I grew up in Shanghai. Most of the hotels only have rooms for queen-sized bed or two twin-sized beds. JW Marriott and Renaissance have rooms for two double-beds. My family of four stayed at both hotels and enjoyed both, but JW Marriott has a better location. It usually also has corporate rate which makes it more reasonable. As for touring, you and the boys can walk to the People's Park, museum and go shopping on your own from the JW, and you can easily book English speaking tours at the hotel. Enjoy! You should try to avoid going there between July and August. The weather will be very hot and humid, and the airfare will be high as well, more in the $1K range/person from SFO. Departing from Detroit on NW might be a little better? If you have further questions, feel free to contact me.


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## Spence (Mar 27, 2006)

I've seen quite a few 'specials' to Shanghai in the past few weeks with fares in the ~$800 ballpark.  Can't remember exactly who they were with, probably United maybe Northwest.  

My brother is, right now, on his second GM sponsored trip to Shanghai this year.  As you said, it's definitely a work trip, he said he had little time for anything else.


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## hibbeln (Mar 28, 2006)

Thank you, everyone!  Your comments have been very helpful and make me feel better about the possibility.  We'll see what dates my husband ends up with and if any of those work as a family......   My boys have travelled internationally many times, so they'll be fine with the flight (it will drive me more nuts than them!).  I've lived in Africa in the past, so navigating through a completely foreign environment is OK with me.  Now that heat and humidity......yikes!  We would probably be looking at either June or late July.  Guess that puts us right in the middle of sticky and smoggy!


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## hibbeln (Apr 2, 2006)

Another question (hope someone's still reading this!).

What are reasonable daytrips (no more than 2 hours by whatever kind of transportation) from Shanghai?  I'm realizing I know nothing at all about Chinese geography.

Anyone have any idea how far these are from Shanghai (travel time)?
Xihu (West Lake)
Zhouzhuang (the "Venice" water town)
Tiger Hill, Hanshan Temple

I'm just starting to explore this, so feel free to chime in with other places to explore.  I have the Bund, Nanjing Road, Yu Garden and the Shanghai Museum on a list to research.  Thoughts?
THANKS!


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## JillChang (Apr 3, 2006)

hibbeln said:
			
		

> Another question (hope someone's still reading this!).
> 
> What are reasonable daytrips (no more than 2 hours by whatever kind of transportation) from Shanghai?  I'm realizing I know nothing at all about Chinese geography.
> 
> ...



West Lake is 2 hours drive from Shanghai, very lovely.  I recommend spending a day at West lake's Hyatt, just opened, fantastic seamless swimming pool overloking west lake.  Also the best food you will find nearby Hyatt.  West Lake you can do by hiring a car from your hotel to take you there.  Back the same way.  Not sure about the other two places, I wouldn't recommend you do it on your own.  Check with your hotel and join a local tour, or private tour.

Shanghai is a cosmopolitan city, but just outside shanghai, it is a different story.  Not even returning Chinese will venture outside on their own.  Shanghai is safe, because the shanghai government made it so, but outside shanghai district, you are not safe. 

Also remember, almost no one, outside of your hotel, speaks English.  

Again, do what the visiting Chinese do, join a tour, and make sure it is an upscale tour.  The best tour are the ones organized here in North America as they are catered to foreigners and have proper staff.


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## hibbeln (Apr 4, 2006)

Thank you for the advice, Jill!   Especially for the Hyatt recommendation at West Lake.  
Now I just need to check airfares......

So it sounds like you WOULDN'T recommend jumping on a train and "doing it yourself" (with kids in tow) once outside of Shanghai?

I was just told that lots of expats take August off on vacation, so we may be able to snag someone's idle car/driver while they're on vacation....


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## JillChang (Apr 4, 2006)

Taking trains?  you are kidding right?

Although I did take a train from Shanghai to Beijing, I would NOT try to go through either train stations by myself, and I am Chinese.

I had my driver accompany us all the way to the train cabin, and for that, I purchase an extra ticket for him.  In Beijing station, my Beijing cousin picked me up right at the train door, and he purchase station entry ticket to do that so I am escorted by 3 people out of train station.  The reason they do that?......there are all kinds and types of people at the train station, you will get a cultural shock, and it is NOT safe.  The train stations in China is the biggest melting pot of all kinds of people, you have to be careful.  Even my Chinese friends here in Canada were shocked that I took the train, they thought I was brave!

And the train that I took was a "soft sleeper", the highest class and only available on certain route.  I believe there is one between Shanghai and Hangzhou, but that is not the problem, the problem is navigating the stations on both ends.  I mean, even if you got on Shanghai train, how would you get to your hotel?  taxi?  please, do you trust them?  I wouldn't, I would only take them from the hotel.

I hired a private car in Hangzhou, escorted all the way.  The one occasion I walked 3 blocks to the restaurant for dinner, my 10 year old son was 1/2 inch away from being run over by a bus, I grabbed him last second, the bus driver didn't even stop or slow down, he just continue to plow through the pedestrian.  If my son was hit by that bus, the bus driver will get away with murder, he will get a fine at the most.  That is China.

Just so you know, owning a car in Shanghai is very expensive.  The car price is double what it costs here, and the license plate is very rare, they are auctioned every year, it cost approx. US $4000 a year to own a shanghai license plate.  On top of that, foreigners should not drive in Shanghai.  When my local driver got caught by the police for traffic violation, I stayed in the car (my sons are mixed, we are obviously foreigners), he negotiate the fine from 400 RMB down to 100 RMB.  But if it were foreigners that got caught, and in the unfortunate event that you hit something or someone, you are in deep trouble.  Please keep in mind China is still not a country where police understand human rights.  So hiring a car through your hotel is the best bet.  Do not hire a car on the street.  I have friends and relatives that own cars and drivers in Shanghai, I borrow them while I am in Shanghai, but I will not try for a trip outside Shanghai.  Most Shanghai drivers don't know how to drive outside Shanghai, most outside drivers don't know how to drive inside Shanghai.

It is crazy, I know, but that is what it is.  A private car to Hangzhou should not cost you more than 1000 RMB.  You should only take a train only if Hyatt will arrange for a pick up from train station, AND you can buy a "soft sleeper" seats, and make sure you are escorted to inside your train, (you can buy an entry ticket).  Of course, there are lots of foreignes that are comfortable taking trains, but only after you have live there for a while and know a few chinese words, and know what to watch out for.

It should be better by next year, Shanghai - Hanzhou is getting a new magnetic train.  It will be cool, I think it takes like 30 minutes or less.  The train does not touches ground, it approaches the flying speed.   There is already one working between airport and downtown shanghai, except the station inside Shanghai is inconvenient, and you really can not get around with luggage, so few people take them.  It might be fun to take your kids just to try for an experience.  One of a kind!  Now they are talking about one between Shanghai and Beijing, cuts travelling time down to 2 hours, from 12 hours traditional train, in time for the Olympics and 2010 Shanghai world expo.  I definitely want to try that


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## JillChang (Apr 4, 2006)

hibbeln said:
			
		

> Thank you for the advice, Jill!   Especially for the Hyatt recommendation at West Lake.
> Now I just need to check airfares......
> 
> So it sounds like you WOULDN'T recommend jumping on a train and "doing it yourself" (with kids in tow) once outside of Shanghai?
> ...



I don't know about vacation in August, I know that the biggest holiday in China is Chinese new year (feb) and labour day (oct. 1) people take off 2 weeks for that.


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## hibbeln (Apr 5, 2006)

Thanks, Jill!  Excellent information that I need to hear.  This is exactly what I'm looking for!  When you say dangerous (I believe you!), what kind of dangerous do you mean?  Petty theft, armed robbery, getting mowed down by drivers, people preying on or kidnapping foreigners, people cheating foreigners, or just simply getting completely lost with no way to communicate, OR ALL OF THE ABOVE?!  Tell me what to expect!

All right, you've convinced me, no trains unless it's on an escorted tour.    

We might "borrow" a car and driver that is sitting idle IN SHANGHAI while the employer is on vacation elsewhere.  I hold up my hand and solemnly promise to only hire cars through reputable agencies/hotels.

What should I tell my husband when he goes there alone next month?  Have his hotel get a taxi for him when he needs it?

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jill!


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## JillChang (Apr 5, 2006)

hibbeln said:
			
		

> Thanks, Jill!  Excellent information that I need to hear.  This is exactly what I'm looking for!  When you say dangerous (I believe you!), what kind of dangerous do you mean?  Petty theft, armed robbery, getting mowed down by drivers, people preying on or kidnapping foreigners, people cheating foreigners, or just simply getting completely lost with no way to communicate, OR ALL OF THE ABOVE?!  Tell me what to expect!
> 
> All right, you've convinced me, no trains unless it's on an escorted tour.
> 
> ...



How about holding a needle up to your neck and claims it has HIV so unless you pay him, he is going to stick in your neck?  

About 3 years ago, there are even pirates in parts of China.  An entire boat of Taiwanese (the other chinese) visitors were killed and burned.

Well, that is the worst case scenario.  But like I told you, my 10 year old nearly got struck by this big bus.  I don't feel safe outside Shanghai, and I speak fluent Mandarin.

Inside Shanghai you are very safe, that is because Shanghai is a special district, not part of the province, it is has the same power as provincial government, so taking a taxi from shanghai airport is not a problem.


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## iiderman (Apr 6, 2006)

Hi Jill and Debbi.. we too are in the planning stages of a 10 day trip to China this summer.  We are also doing it on our own.. We plan to fly into HongKong on United and then onto Shanghai on Dragon Air.  We are then planning to go from Shanghai to Beijing by the overnite train with the "soft sleepers".. Having read Jill's remarks, I'm having second thoughts about the the train part of the trip..

Has anyone else done this Shanghai-Beijing leg by train???  Are we crazy to go on with this?   

I'd appreciate any input!


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## hibbeln (Apr 6, 2006)

Jill, I'm passing this along to my husband who is leaving in about 4 weeks.  It will keep him on his toes and probably keep him handily inside the city limits of Shanghai!


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## Siocnarf (May 12, 2006)

My wife, two kids (daughter and son aged 10 and 12) and I have on three occasions in the past two years taken the train, subway, taxi, etc in and outside of Shanghai, un-escorted and we are caucasian and don't speak a word of Mandarin.  We've taken the train from Shanghai station to Wuxi (2 hours away) and Suzhou.   We've walked up and down the main streets of  Suzhou and Wuxi (if you go to Suzhou, consider the Sheraton....).

The worse experience we had was hawkers renegotiating a price after the service was delivered (e.g. shoe shine, bag porters), a taxi driver trying to keep the change (out of about 50 rides, it happened once).  Taxis have always taken us straight to the destination.  You need a card with the name of the destination written on it by the hotel concierge.  When you get in the cab though, check that it has a meter and write down the number of the cab in case something happens (like forgetting a camera, etc).

Yes, the stations are very crowded and there are all kinds of people in them but there is also a lot of security.   Most people in the train stations and on the train are commuters and travellers.  There are also people who want to carry your bags and you have to be careful about them trying to extort an "exorbitant" fee from you (i.e. 20 RMB per bag instead of the previously agreed 5RMB - this happens all the time..).  I have not run into unsavory characters inside the stations.   Outside might be a different matter.  Common sense applies.  Watch out for pickpockets, stay together, don't wear jewellry, hide your money belt and cameras (I've walked around places like Shenzhen with my brand new digital camera hanging around my neck....and I could feel the stares.....), don't walk down isolated streets or dark alleys, stay where people and shops are.  Use small change when buying or paying for things on the street.  Hide your large bills or keep them in the hotel safe. 

I was also surprised at how comfortable the trains were (soft  seats that is... but we've also been short distances on hard seats, with lots of luggage too... and didn't regret the experience).   I have not travelled the 14-18 hours or so between Shanghai and Beijing by train because I was never able to get the train tickets (buying train tickets in Shanghai and some other places is a nightmare because of the line-ups unless the hotel can do it for you, which is not always the case).

If you are concerned about safety, communicating, getting around, my parents (late 60s, who have also been to China twice in the past couple of years) have always hired a tour guide, in advance, from a reputable contact, before leaving home.  Everything is arranged for them, transportation, restaurants, etc. at a relatively reasonable cost.


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## hibbeln (May 12, 2006)

Thanks!  My husband is leaving on Sunday for his first trip, so you've made me feel better.  He will be escorted around most of the time (if not all the time) by Americans that live there or be given the use of their drivers (he works for General Motors and they have LOTS of folks living in and around Shanghai).  Previous posts have convinced him not to go wandering off by himself too much!


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## maiwah (May 13, 2006)

Definitely hired a car with driver if you are going on a long trip from Shanghai city to another city.  You will save a lot of time and hassle.  Taxi can be OK for traveling within Shanghai city.  However, always ask for how much before you get on the cab.  Some of the Taxi drivers even rid local Chinese off, if you don't instruct the driver to take the shortest route.  Definitely  I don't feel dangerous at all traveling in Shanghai.  Shanghai city is very civilized.  I took my kids around the city via subway from hotel to restaurants, or major destinations back and fro and felt just fine.  I am from New York city, and found the subway system in Shanghai is way way better than NYC.

However, I have to agree that people in China do not follow traffic law (if there is such thing).  You have to be really careful crossing the roads, and definitely, make sure that the driver you hired have great driving record.

Shanghai is a lovely city. I was bornt there.  I took my kids, and my brother's kids there couple of years ago.  We had really really great time.  It is very, very hot in the summer.   That is the only thing my kids complaint about.  Another complaints from my kids were food.  Chinese dishes have a lot more vegetable and seafood.  My older son actually was home sick for the big portion of meat dishes in U.S....

My mom has a very nice brand new upscale apartment there, if you are looking for 4 BR.  Send me a private mail if you are interested.


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