# Vistana - Marriott Vacation Club Reciprical Reservations Coming?



## remowidget (Jan 17, 2020)

We did our owners update at the Westin Lagunamar and we were told some mechanism was coming to allow us to book Marriott Vacation Club and vice versa at 8 months. No details such as cost or how it would work were given. We were told it was supposed to be announced by the end of February.


----------



## SteelerGal (Jan 17, 2020)

Interesting.


----------



## clsmit (Jan 18, 2020)

I did an Owner's Update at SVV last week. You can no longer sell back your Vistana properties to buy into Flex. No more retros (that's not new). At some point (and the rep was clear that he didn't know) there will be a combined Vistana/Marriott/Hyatt program where you can buy into the opportunity to make reservations across all the locations. Kind of a mega-Flex. Current week (non Flex) and Flex owners will not have the opportunity to reserve earlier without buying into the new system. But it's coming. I'm guessing the IT teams are working overtime to make this happen.


----------



## SteelerGal (Jan 18, 2020)

They should be working on CS call system.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jan 18, 2020)

SteelerGal said:


> They should be working on CS call system.



Unfortunately, that doesn't generate revenue.


----------



## bizaro86 (Jan 18, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Unfortunately, that doesn't generate revenue.



I would encourage any vistana owner who goes to a presentation to say they can't buy more  because of the hold times/inability to get through on the phone.

"Vistana obviously doesn't care about its customers, how could I ever consider giving you guys more money"

If enough people do that the call center will get fixed.


----------



## blondietink (Jan 18, 2020)

Hopefully the IT guys will do better this time than when they merged the Starwood and Marriott hotel systems.  It was a mess and still isn't quite right.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 18, 2020)

We were told this summer for a merger by Westin and possibly this quarter by Marriott.. There seems to be a common thread with both Marriott and Westin/Vistana presentations that there will be a devaluation of SOs for trading into resorts like Hawaii. You would need a comparable resort to exchange . Not sure if Kierland winter weeks  will still be able to exchange. Time will tell.


----------



## jabberwocky (Jan 20, 2020)

blondietink said:


> Hopefully the IT guys will do better this time than when they merged the Starwood and Marriott hotel systems.  It was a mess and still isn't quite right.



Completely different companies.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jan 20, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> Completely different companies.


But they may outsource IT to a common 3rd party.


----------



## n777lt (Jan 20, 2020)

Ha! I'll have to ask the question at my Nanea presentation next week, but at Marriott Maui Ocean Club, where we stayed just before this (weeks owners there) we were told the integration would take TWO YEARS...it will be interesting to see.


----------



## DannyTS (Jan 20, 2020)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We were told this summer for a merger by Westin and possibly this quarter by Marriott.. There seems to be a common thread with both Marriott and Westin/Vistana presentations that there will be a devaluation of SOs for trading into resorts like Hawaii. You would need a comparable resort to exchange . Not sure if Kierland winter weeks  will still be able to exchange. Time will tell.


In a system with 3 Flex system overlapping individual resorts, it makes the most sense IMO to have a fixed conversion SO/DC points. Although not contractually, the StarOptions chart is what everything was based on when owners bought their timeshares.  Nobody can claim that it is not fair, it is what people have been using for many years.


----------



## dansimms (Jan 20, 2020)

I believe the 2 year clock started about 18 months ago with the aquisition, so Q4 of this year could be a time when an integration could legally begin to be possible.


----------



## CPNY (Jan 21, 2020)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We were told this summer for a merger by Westin and possibly this quarter by Marriott.. There seems to be a common thread with both Marriott and Westin/Vistana presentations that there will be a devaluation of SOs for trading into resorts like Hawaii. You would need a comparable resort to exchange . Not sure if Kierland winter weeks  will still be able to exchange. Time will tell.


If they devalue my SO I’ll be devaluing my annual fees.


----------



## DanTUG (Jan 22, 2020)

Just went to an owner's update meeting at Westin Desert Willow.  

Was told the following:

With few exceptions, they are basically only selling Flex (I was offered the "West Coast" Flex which included Ka'anapali, Princeville, Nanea, Desert Willow, Mission Hills, Riverfront, Kierland and the "promise" of Steamboat - sorry don't know all the shorthand codes off-hand)
Marriott does not do retros
Vistana may no longer be able to do retros soon as the merger moves ahead and Marriott imposes it's practices on the Vistana team
Incidentally, I did talk to some of the resort staff (outside of sales) and they said that Marriott was tightening up some of their practices 

Marriott is buying more defaults, resales, etc. - implying that it was getting harder to get well-priced resales to go through
They tried to get me to convert my resale EOY WKV to Flex - told them not interested (my MFption ratio is too good to give up)
They offered me the ability to retro by buying at a lower minimum Flex buy-in, $10k worth of Flex
Previously I had understood one had to buy a developer week, or a minimum of $20k in Flex points to retro

They said that by retro-ing, I would be able to use my Vistana points at Marriott properties (soon) and Hyatt properties (later) - 
They said the process would be seamless from the dashboard - not involve a trade into Interval, etc.  
The also said that this would obviously involve some type type of conversion factor between Vistana and Marriott points 
I know it is separate and I'm certainly not counting on this but I felt that the 1;3 SPG to Bonvoy ratio was more than fair so I'm not anticipating an "unfair" conversion factor


The $10k is for 44,000 EOY Flex - MF including VSN charge is under $500/year (so under $1,000 for use of the 44,000) - not great as a ratio but not going to break the bank in total
My conclusion is that if you like what you have and it's working keep it. It also makes sense to me that they are trying to create the mother of all networks with the merger (22 Westin/Sheraton properties, ~70 Marriott Vacation clubs plus about 20 Hyatt locations) so if you want "easy" access to all properties in the mega-network without doing exchanges, etc. we may have to pay up at some point. I know that peak weeks at best properties will be difficult (impossible?) to get, etc. but my wife and I will soon be entering a phase where we can be a bit more flexible. I took the offer plus the incentives but still within my CA rescission period so would love any input on my thinking. Other obvious approach to access all these properties would be at some point to buy a Marriott and/or Hyatt resale week and hope it goes through.  

BTW, WDW villa, pool facilities and grounds were immaculate, Staff friendly and restaurant food/service excellent. No degradation in the experience to-date.


----------



## SandyPGravel (Jan 22, 2020)

This almost makes me want to do an update the first week of March when I'm at WSJ...Just to get info see how it's spun from a property not in Flex.


----------



## CPNY (Jan 22, 2020)

DanTUG said:


> Just went to an owner's update meeting at Westin Desert Willow.
> 
> Was told the following:
> 
> ...


Hmm I’m getting from this they are eluding to the fact that in our vistana dashboard, ALL MVC properties will be added and only if your week is enrolled in the network by having access to bonvoy points (I know it has zero to do with options etc) but by having the ability to convert SO into bonvoy points is one way they can tell it is retroed or a developer purchase. (I have speculated that a while back). Anyway, by having the ability to book all properties would that be at the 8 month mark? If so that would be A LOT more people trying to book into vistana properties at 8 months, making inventory that much more scarce. I don’t think having these TS would be worth it any longer if that is the case for me


----------



## DannyTS (Jan 22, 2020)

SandyPGravel said:


> This almost makes me want to do an update the first week of March when I'm at WSJ...Just to get info see how it's spun from a property not in Flex.


please go if not too much trouble. This is going to be very revealing if the currency could be StarOptions or Flex (HomeOptions).


----------



## okwiater (Jan 22, 2020)

I just did an owners update at WSJ this week. They are selling it hard as the only way to avoid being locked out of WSJ once the door opens to all the MVC owners. It will supposedly be “impossible” to get in here... and I’m inclined to agree considering Caneel is gone and there are way more MVC owners than Vistana.

Interestingly, they are pushing fixed-to-float weeks in Coral Vista pretty hard, and selling them at the same price as traditional floaters.

The other interesting twist is they are only allowing trade-ins of units purchased from the developer. Even our retro’d weeks are marked resale and excluded from being traded in.

Anyway, we didn’t bite. The price of $71,100 for a Coral Vista 2-br and $3,800 in MFs seems like it would take several lifetimes to come out ahead. I also told the closer that I would never consider buying more from Vistana until the details regarding the MVC integration were decided and made official. I told them as of now the Vistana 5-star Elites are second class citizens compared to MVC Elites, both in terms of the timeshare booking window and the lifetime hotel status.


----------



## CPNY (Jan 22, 2020)

okwiater said:


> I just did an owners update at WSJ this week. They are selling it hard as the only way to avoid being locked out of WSJ once the door opens to all the MVC owners. It will supposedly be “impossible” to get in here... and I’m inclined to agree considering Caneel is gone and there are way more MVC owners than Vistana.
> 
> Interestingly, they are pushing fixed-to-float weeks in Coral Vista pretty hard, and selling them at the same price as traditional floaters.
> 
> ...


Honestly, if availability starts to go down worse than they are today due to the MVC owners booking into our originally purchased resorts, I’ll stop paying my HOA fees and just walk away. I’ll rent whenever I want to go, or keep one mandatory contract and go whenever whenever I can get availability. I really wished they kept things separate. I can get exchanges in interval or book getaways to MVC properties. I pray they never fully combine. But that won’t be the case.


----------



## SandyPGravel (Jan 22, 2020)

okwiater said:


> I just did an owners update at WSJ this week. They are selling it hard as the only way to avoid being locked out of WSJ once the door opens to all the MVC owners. It will supposedly be “impossible” to get in here... and I’m inclined to agree considering Caneel is gone and there are way more MVC owners than Vistana.
> 
> Interestingly, they are pushing fixed-to-float weeks in Coral Vista pretty hard, and selling them at the same price as traditional floaters.
> 
> ...




Thanx for the insight.  I'm not interested in the main resort I would only want something on the hill.  No way would we lay out 70k+.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jan 22, 2020)

Just a reminder that back in October at Marriott Vacation Worldwide's Investor Day Conference on Wall Street, Executive Management did disclose that a "common points currency" between Marriott Vacation Club, Sheraton Vacation Club, and Westin Vacation Club would be coming in the second half of 2020. They implied Hyatt will not be included. 

So the answer to the question posed in the OP is yes, some sort of reciprocal reservations system will be announced in the latter half of 2020 if all stays on schedule. The "February" announcement the OP was pitched seems questionable based on Executive Management's statements to the investor community. As far as the details being discussed in the subsequent posts, only time will tell. The sales reps have been using the acquisition of ILG by Marriott Vacations Worldwide ever since it was announced to create a sense of urgency to "buy now or you will be left out", but no one really knows - and that probably includes the resort-based sales reps - what the actual product form will be.

By the way, on the MVC site this morning they are now promoting a "New Enhancement" that MVC owners can now trade into Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club through Interval as an "Internal" trade vs. an "External" trade previously. I assume similar reciprocity is being extended to Westin/Sheraton owners into MVC through II.


----------



## DannyTS (Jan 22, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> By the way, on the MVC site this morning they are now promoting a "New Enhancement" that MVC owners can now trade into Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club through Interval as an "Internal" trade vs. an "External" trade previously. I assume similar reciprocity is being extended to Westin/Sheraton owners into MVC through II.


OMG!!!!! I just checked, the exchange cost Vistana into Marriott dropped to $154!!!! This is pretty new, my last Vistana/Marriott exchange was just 4 days ago. I think i will post it separately, this is important news


----------



## CPNY (Jan 22, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> Just a reminder that back in October at Marriott Vacation Worldwide's Investor Day Conference on Wall Street, Executive Management did disclose that a "common points currency" between Marriott Vacation Club, Sheraton Vacation Club, and Westin Vacation Club would be coming in the second half of 2020. They implied Hyatt will not be included.
> 
> So the answer to the question posed in the OP is yes, some sort of reciprocal reservations system will be announced in the latter half of 2020 if all stays on schedule. The "February" announcement the OP was pitched seems questionable based on Executive Management's statements to the investor community. As far as the details being discussed in the subsequent posts, only time will tell. The sales reps have been using the acquisition of ILG by Marriott Vacations Worldwide ever since it was announced to create a sense of urgency to "buy now or you will be left out", but no one really knows - and that probably includes the resort-based sales reps - what the actual product form will be.
> 
> By the way, on the MVC site this morning they are now promoting a "New Enhancement" that MVC owners can now trade into Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club through Interval as an "Internal" trade vs. an "External" trade previously. I assume similar reciprocity is being extended to Westin/Sheraton owners into MVC through II.


I wonder if the Sheraton vacation club and Westin vacation club refer only to the Sheraton and Westin flex plans. If only those programs have access to MVC and MVC has access to those clubs, what happens to those who own in resorts not in those clubs, I.e Harborside,WSJ, and Mexico? Are those owners excluded? If that’s the caveat then possibly buying into “the flex” plans as the “only way to play” sales pitch could have been right all along.

I just really really hope inventory at HRA isn’t even more difficult to book at 8 months. That’s the only reason I have my Mandatory VOI’s. If I lose booking there because nothing is available, I’m out lol.


----------



## CPNY (Jan 22, 2020)

DannyTS said:


> OMG!!!!! I just checked, the exchange cost Vistana into Marriott dropped to $154!!!! This is pretty new, my last Vistana/Marriott exchange was just 4 days ago


How much was it originally? 199? I think creating “currency” in interval with instant and live inventory then charging exchange fees is one way to make a buck off of us. Whenever cross booking comes, expect fees to come along with it.


----------



## dsmrp (Jan 23, 2020)

SandyPGravel said:


> This almost makes me want to do an update the first week of March when I'm at WSJ...Just to get info see how it's spun from a property not in Flex.



LOL, DH really dislikes going to updates, but I think we will at the end of March at our next stay at SDO.  Just to hear what they'll say for our particular situation.  We have one developer purchase and one retro'ed week. The retro was done before there were any Flex trusts.  Hopefully a month's elapsed time should be enough for Marriott to solidify their messaging.

We exchanged into Newport Coast Villas in December.  We were never asked to meet with sales staff.


----------

