# Several small packages or one bigger one?



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 26, 2008)

I have the desire to buy Disney points, probably through Seth Nock, wearing my Realtor/ broker hat (may save a few bucks). 

Anyway, Rick and I have considered this for a good long time--at least three years now.  We see the benefit of tacking five days to the beginning or end of a Disney exchange, which would really maximize our ownership.  

We have three grown children (even starting to get those grandkids), all of whom love Disney, but at least two of the kids won't go to Disney very often because vacation time is sparse and the expense of Disney is just too much.  But I want the kids to have the benefit of the savings of the annual passes.

This brings me to my questions:

1_. Would you buy a large package, like 200 points, and forget the kids?  

*Or,*
2. Would you buy four smaller packages (at a slightly higher cost per point) to give the kids the annual pass discounts and other benefits? _ 

I was doing the math here: 

50 points X 4.50 (We would buy Saratoga, probably) = $225.00 in fees.  Two people would save $100 each for annual passes.  Of course, the kids wouldn't use the discount every year.  

If we bought four of these small packages (they are out there), I can see the value in owning the small ones for these very reason.  

Rick and I would definitely get the value from the passes, but I don't know if the kids would use them much right now.  

Our goal is to own 200 points or a little more. 

Buying the big package directly from Disney--any benefits?  

Anything that I am overlooking in my analysis?  Any hidden expenses?  

Thanks for brainstorming with me!


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## elaine (Mar 26, 2008)

*buy in increments of 50, 75 or 100*

I, personally, would want an easy exit strategy, should my vacationing style or finances change. 50 and 75 are very easy to resell, should you need to.  100 is the biggest batch I would buy.  Once you get over 100 points, most people just buy from DVC directly.
Also, you can always sell a part (or give to a kid) and retain the others--with 200, it's all or nothing.  With smaller contracts, closing costs will be at a higher ratio per point.  For a 50 point contract, closing was $322 with The Timeshare Store. 
Also, if you are buying and putting in kids' names, you need to consider gift tax implications in your planning.  You can also have kids' names on the contracts, along with your name and 4-5 people can get AP discounts at same address (I think)--so, you might be able to structure 2 100 point contracts to cover some of the kids.
Also, I'm sure you know about home resort---if you plan to travel at peak times, this should be a big consideration--you can't buy SSR and assume you'll get into VWL for Christmas (extreme example).
good luck!  We love our DVC! Elaine (ps-- we go 1-2X a year, but found the AP, even with DVC discount to not be a good value for us--the 10 day non-expire with water parks works well---esp. for those who can't go as often--for a 1 week stay, we use 2-3 days in the parks, 2 days waterparks--this makes a very full week and we are able to get 3 or 4 week-long trips out of the passes).


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## luv2vacation (Mar 26, 2008)

I second the 10-day passes.  We use 2 or 3 days at a time.  With the no-exp. and the plus visits, it's very reasonable.

Also, we put both my daughters' names on our contract so that they are entitled to all benefits and can use the points along with us.  We did this when we bought so there was no extra cost involved.  BTW, neither one lives at home.


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## SuzanneSLO (Mar 26, 2008)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Buying the big package directly from Disney--any benefits?
> 
> Anything that I am overlooking in my analysis?  Any hidden expenses?
> 
> Thanks for brainstorming with me!



AT SSR and AKV, there will be discounts and other incentives for buying all 200 or so points at once.  You can still break this into more than 1 contract, but at elast 1 contract will need to have the minimum of 160 points.

There is no incentive based on the size of cotnract if you buy any of the other resorts from Disney.  There will still be a 160 minimum point buy-in.

An advantage to buying from Disney is that you can make reservations right away (instead of 2-4 months from signing the purchase contract). Also, it is generally easier to get contracts will current year points from Disney by buying a UY that starts later in the year, although "loaded" contacts with banked points as well current can be found resale if you are patient. 

We plan 2 10 day trips during each AP year, so we get our money's worth from the AP discount.

-- Suzanne


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 26, 2008)

I wanted to make sure the kids got the discounts on annual passes.  Is that a benefit lost in buying a large points package? 

Rick and I go to Orlando about 5-7 weeks per year, so for us, the annual passes are a must.  But for the kids, I think they will make sure they go at the beginning of the pass and again at the last possible week before they expire.  If you think about it, those ten-day non-expiring passes are not much cheaper than an annual pass, especially with the $100 discount for DVC owners.  I wonder if that will last, or if they will get rid of that benefit at some point?


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## laxmom (Mar 26, 2008)

I read today on the disboards that there is a killer incentive for the new section of AK lodge with an owner referral.  I believe it was $8 off per point, then 2 - sets of developer points equaling 400 - 200 that must be used this UY and 200 for later.  I'm guessing because of the occupancy date. There is also a $500 gift card that it appears they are letting people use toward their downpayment.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1764593

I am not sure if that benefit only applies to large contracts or not.  I would be surprised if it did, though.

The one advantage that I have heard and found while looking for contracts is that the small ones sell easier than the larger ones should you decide to resell.


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 26, 2008)

I just looked at the disboards thread.  I don't understand why no one ever said what the actual COST per point is.....

I would love to buy points, but I do need some clarification on the cost.  I guess I can call my guide tomorrow, but I hate to get his hopes up.


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 26, 2008)

I would only buy DVC points in contracts of 160 points or less.

I think it is silly to buy a bunch of 25 point contracts.

I think that 100 points is a nice round number.


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## laxmom (Mar 26, 2008)

I saw several 50 point listings today on a resellers website for Saratoga Springs.  All had the same UY.  Guess someone must have bought a boat load of those small contracts to reach their total points.

Is it true that the smaller points demand a higher price per point to pass ROFR?  Or is it that the demand drives the price up?


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 26, 2008)

Bill, did you see my reasoning?  I wanted to get small packages for the kids, that we would pay the maintenance fees for an will use ourselves, specifically for annual pass discounts.  I was doing this because you can only buy annual passes with the discount for those in your household.  

I thought it was a good plan because there is no benefit for the kids for us to have a larger package.   

I was thinking of buying the kids each 50 points, then ourselves a little more.  The incentives are great right now, but what is the actual net cost per point.  Bill, you are the numbers guy--the BocaBum of Disney points.  What price is it right now?


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## laxmom (Mar 26, 2008)

Here is a link for current pricing.  It states $104 for AKV before the discount.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1241943&page=48


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 26, 2008)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Bill, did you see my reasoning?  I wanted to get small packages for the kids, that we would pay the maintenance fees for an will use ourselves, specifically for annual pass discounts.  I was doing this because you can only buy annual passes with the discount for those in your household.
> 
> I thought it was a good plan because there is no benefit for the kids for us to have a larger package.
> 
> I was thinking of buying the kids each 50 points, then ourselves a little more.  The incentives are great right now, but what is the actual net cost per point.  Bill, you are the numbers guy--the BocaBum of Disney points.  What price is it right now?



ok...I see what you are trying to do. I am a Florida resident and the AAA/Florida resident rates are the best for Disney tix and much better than the DVC discount.

The problem with buying four separate contracts with four separate names (member numbers) is that you can't combine them easily into one reservation and it may be a nightmare for you in booking rooms.

I would probably buy 3-4 separate contracts in the 50-75 point range under one member number for you and your husband. Then you can easily spin off one of two contracts to your kids as they want them. You might want to bend the rules and tell Disney all your adult kids and grandkids live with you at home to get the passes, but I am not up on the rules.

I would buy SSR as they have the lowest annual dues $4.21pp and have a resale value of about $80-84 per point. But the small contract prices do get a premium vs the larger contracts, so your price may actually approach $90pp.

Also, you might want to call Disney to find out if you have to buy contracts with the same use year (actually use month) for your one meber number as all my 7 DVC contracts have an August use year. This too will get confusing with trying to buy multiple small contracts.

Thus, if you can find four 50-point SSr contracts with the same use year (month) at a price of $80pp, then it would be a great deal.

You may find it easier to buy directly from Disney and ask for a 200 point SSR contract broken up into four 50 point contracts.

Make sure to compare TOTAL costs for resale vs direct. I am not up on closing costs, title searches, insurance, etc. 

Also Disney may let you pay with a credit card and you would get 20,000 miles (almost a free trip) vs resales usually want a check.


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## laxmom (Mar 26, 2008)

Cindy, I searched Disboards for you and had trouble finding current pricing.  Looked here on Tug and found it.  Here is the link;

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66847 

Steamboat knows his DVC. I am so glad this forum is here!


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## EAM (Mar 27, 2008)

You might want to consider your estate plans in deciding whether to purchase one or several groups of points.  One DVC owner told me that her only regret was buying one large contract rather than three smaller ones, so that she could leave one contract to each of her three children.


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## laxmom (Mar 27, 2008)

No sure why I didn't think of that.   That is why we have 2 Marriotts.  We bought DVC for DH and I .  Guess we may need to look for an add on...once we close on this one!! (any excuse will do!)


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 27, 2008)

EAM said:


> You might want to consider your estate plans in deciding whether to purchase one or several groups of points.  One DVC owner told me that her only regret was buying one large contract rather than three smaller ones, so that she could leave one contract to each of her three children.



It is NEVER wise to buy only one huge DVC contract.

The maximum I would advise is 250 points and actually prefer 160 points or less per contract. You can have several thousand points in one membership number.


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 27, 2008)

What about adding the names to the contracts?  I think it would be wise to have the married kids' and spouses' names on the contracts, too, along with their mailing addresses.  I am trying to make sure that each kid has the ability to get discounts on annual passes.  That could save a bunch of money.  Our kids love the water parks, so they may opt for the premium annual passes.  Does the $100 off apply to premium passes?  

So use year and month are important for making reservations and need to be the same for that reason?  

Thanks for your help, everyone.   

Bill, I hadn't thought of buying a large number of points at once and breaking them into four contracts.  That might be a good solution, going through Disney for the bonuses right now.  I need to ask my sales guy about it.  He is such a nice guy, and talk about low pressure!  I told him to let me know when the deals are too good to pass up, but he never calls.  I don't know if he is just so busy selling, or if he thinks we are looking and not buying.


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 27, 2008)

My guide calls me all the time...I have bought over 7 contracts and over 1350 points in total.

The current prices are not the best (that was in december) but there is never a bad time to buy DVC (IMHO).


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## tomandrobin (Mar 27, 2008)

One thing about Disney, the prices never go down. And since its a point based system, its very easy for them to control the buy-in price. 

The promotions change all the time. So its really hard to gauge when the best deal is going to happen. There is alot of talk of a price increase of $3-$5 a point soon, but we'll just have to wait and see. 

Use Year is important for canceling reservations. If you normally vacation at a certain time of year, you will want your use year to be prior to that. We travel all your long to WDW, so the use year is not important. 

Also, buy where you want to stay. All the deals right now are on SSR and AKV. But if you want one of the other resorts, you definately should buy resale.


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 27, 2008)

tomandrobin said:


> Use Year is important for canceling reservations. If you normally vacation at a certain time of year, you will want your use year to be prior to that. We travel all your long to WDW, so the use year is not important.
> 
> Also, buy where you want to stay. All the deals right now are on SSR and AKV. But if you want one of the other resorts, you definately should buy resale.



I have an august use year and it has not been a factor for me in the past 8 years as I can bank this year or borrow from next year or simply rent the points.

The idea of buy where you want to stay only applies if you make reservations 7 (plus one day) to 11 months in advance as once you make a reservation 7 months or sooner to your planned date of travel, all DVC points are the same. Home resorts do give you a 4 month jump on reservations like holidays.


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## laxmom (Mar 27, 2008)

Do you own all of your points at one resort?  If not, have you had problems booking inside that 7 month window?


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 27, 2008)

laxmom said:


> Do you own all of your points at one resort?  If not, have you had problems booking inside that 7 month window?



yes, I own all SSR points now (sold all my VWL) and always book within the 7 month window. However, I avoid holidays and do not always get the exact property I want. No problem as I am happy with OKW and SSR anytime, but I really like BWV and BCV in the summer, VWL in Winter and AKV in October.


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## laxmom (Mar 27, 2008)

Wow.  I haven't stayed in any of the DVC so I would care where they put me.  I did stay in WL and loved the hotel so I am sure I would really love the villas.  That is good to know.

We just put in a contract on a small 50 point contract at HHI.  We want a getaway for just DH and I.  The Marriotts are for traveling with the kids.  I have to admit that you, Steamboat Bill, have been a great source of info as I have been studying DVC for about a year.  Your excitement is contagious.

50 points is just a start and when we save up again, we will add on....of course!


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## tomandrobin (Mar 27, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I have an august use year and it has not been a factor for me in the past 8 years as I can bank this year or borrow from next year or simply rent the points.
> 
> The idea of buy where you want to stay only applies if you make reservations 7 (plus one day) to 11 months in advance as once you make a reservation 7 months or sooner to your planned date of travel, all DVC points are the same. Home resorts do give you a 4 month jump on reservations like holidays.



We have gone the past three years at New Years, and will be going again this year at New Years. This is the only time will press the 11 month window. 

Now we did buy a 175 points at AKV and have booked two reservations, conceirge level, which we also had to book at 11 months. 

All of all our other reservations, including 7 rentals were 7 months or less.


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