# Which Marriott to buy resale?



## momeason (Jun 5, 2014)

We are considering buying a Marriott week to add to our Starwood week.
My nephew is interested and we may go in together. I want Marriott priority to add to my Starwood priority.

Which resorts have 2 or 3 bedroom lock-offs, good trade value and reasonable maintenance fees?

Not in any hurry, just considering options at this point.

Thanks!


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## vacationtime1 (Jun 5, 2014)

Marriott trading is not what is used to be.  Since its Destination Club started, many of us believe Marriott has manipulated the availability of weeks in Interval by placing the DC at the front of the line to trade for desired weeks (the DC has the right to swap its inventory for "comparable" inventory from Interval). 

Check out this current thread in which few are getting the super-prime weeks Marriott exchangers used to get:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210054

What Marriott now appears to be doing is to hold onto the prime properties for its DC members and depositing them into Interval only a few weeks in advance.  That makes trading dicey and transportation costs high, at least  if airplanes are required.

Since you say you are not in a hurry in any event, I would sit on the sidelines for a bit longer and see how this shakes out.


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## siesta (Jun 5, 2014)

Robert gives you great advice. Something else you could consider is buying a small points contract, and then rent the difference from tugger Greg's website.  Then you'll have DC access, and II access with priority.

Here is a 1000 point contract

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-MARRIO...91162296064?pt=Timeshares&hash=item43caa00f00


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## Fasttr (Jun 5, 2014)

siesta said:


> Robert gives you great advice. Something else you could consider is buying a small points contract, and then rent the difference from tugger Greg's website.  Then you'll have DC access, and II access with priority.
> 
> Here is a 1000 point contract
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-MARRIO...91162296064?pt=Timeshares&hash=item43caa00f00



Although an option....I believe for a new Trust point owner, purchasing 1,500 points as a minimum is crucial as unless I am mistaken, 1,500 is considered a Base Interest in the program, to enable you to have unfettered access to all program benefits.


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## icydog (Jun 5, 2014)

siesta said:


> Robert gives you great advice. Something else you could consider is buying a small points contract, and then rent the difference from tugger Greg's website.  Then you'll have DC access, and II access with priority.
> 
> Here is a 1000 point contract
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-MARRIO...91162296064?pt=Timeshares&hash=item43caa00f00



If she buys a DC contract how does it help with getting resorts in II?  I'm really serious.  I have my Lakeshore Reserve weeks showing in my II account but no points.  If I deposit my weeks into II will they go in as points?  I thought points were only used for Marriott resorts using their trading system.   



Fasttr said:


> Although an option....I believe for a new Trust point owner, purchasing 1,500 points as a minimum is crucial as unless I am mistaken, 1,500 is considered a Base Interest in the program, to enable you to have unfettered access to all program benefits.


 
Benefits I know about: free II account, free deposit to Marriott Reward Points, free cancelation of vacations.  Is that correct?


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## Fasttr (Jun 5, 2014)

icydog said:


> Benefits I know about: free II account, free deposit to Marriott Reward Points, free cancelation of vacations.  Is that correct?



I would have to review the docs again to be sure, but if memory serves, if you own less than a Base Interest (1,500 points as a pure Trust owner), your access to making ressies could be limited to the window 60 days before check in.  I believe you need to have a Base Interest in order to book in the normal windows (10, 12 and 13 months) as well as to have access to the other "collections" (trading points for ressies in II, Explorer Collection, etc).


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## Big Matt (Jun 5, 2014)

I don't think that Marriott is holding them out, I just think that the demand for those weeks is so high that they are using them all up.  Marriott's goal is to have people spend their DC points as inefficiently as possible.  For example, I wanted a five night stay in the summer in HHI.  That sounds easy, but it isn't. Get on a wait list and give a huge window and maybe you get lucky.  I was able to get a seven night stay, but that used up way more points. 

I'm totally convinced that the reason Marriott isn't updating the online system to be able to show everything is because they want to keep it difficult to find the short stays and good values.  Just my opinion.



vacationtime1 said:


> What Marriott now appears to be doing is to hold onto the prime properties for its DC members and depositing them into Interval only a few weeks in advance.  That makes trading dicey and transportation costs high, at least  if airplanes are required.


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## momeason (Jun 5, 2014)

We were trying to get Miami for summer with the help of Greg and Dioxide and only one week was available on a golf course in Miami in the summer. It does smell fishy. I thought it would be a piece of cake. 
I did not know if DC contracts transferred. Glad to know they do. 
I was thinking weeks but if that is not going well, then I do not know what to do.

I like the idea of a small contract, pay as you go deal. If I do not have many points though, will I be able to "see" inventory?


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## Fasttr (Jun 5, 2014)

momeason said:


> I like the idea of a small contract, pay as you go deal. If I do not have many points though, will I be able to "see" inventory?



You can only see inventory up to the points value you have in your current use year + whatever points you have available to be banked from prior use year or available to be borrowed from future use year.  That said, there are tricks you can use such as looking at single days using the "Flexible" toggle which will show you 7 day windows of single day availability and assuming you have enough points to see the highest priced single day in that window, you have visibility.

Alternatively, you can always call a VOA to inquire about availability and you don't need to have enough points in your account to have them tell you if there is availability or not.  Many will do this.....then go rent whatever additional points they need to secure the ressie.

Hope that helps in your understanding of the points ressie system.


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## pipet (Jun 5, 2014)

momeason said:


> We were trying to get Miami for summer with the help of Greg and Dioxide and only one week was available on a golf course in Miami in the summer. It does smell fishy. I thought it would be a piece of cake.
> I did not know if DC contracts transferred. Glad to know they do.
> I was thinking weeks but if that is not going well, then I do not know what to do.
> 
> I like the idea of a small contract, pay as you go deal. If I do not have many points though, will I be able to "see" inventory?



Were they searching points availability for you? Because if so, maybe the week you were looking for didn't have good availability in II or DC.

If you're looking for bargain trades, IMO you are still better owning a good II trader week but with the caveat that you might be making some plans in flex, and peak weeks are hard to get unless you buy them.  

I'd compare the cost of renting weeks vs 1) the yearly MFs associated with the DC points if you decide to buy DC points or 2) the cost of renting DC points.  For some weeks, you can rent a traditional week for much less than the cost with DC points.  Some weeks cost about the same no matter the source, and others are a bargain in DC points in comparison to MFs (most Aruba weeks, many shoulder & most off-season weeks, etc), so which is the better deal depends a lot on where & when you want to travel.  I am using DC for an upcoming stay because it was a better deal than renting a traditional week.


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## GregT (Jun 5, 2014)

momeason said:


> We are considering buying a Marriott week to add to our Starwood week.
> My nephew is interested and we may go in together. I want Marriott priority to add to my Starwood priority.
> 
> Which resorts have 2 or 3 bedroom lock-offs, good trade value and reasonable maintenance fees?
> ...




I wrote this awhile back when someone was looking for a Platinum trading property that also had good rental potential.  I think it still holds true and I hope it helps!

Best,

Greg


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## dioxide45 (Jun 5, 2014)

momeason said:


> We are considering buying a Marriott week to add to our Starwood week.
> My nephew is interested and we may go in together. I want Marriott priority to add to my Starwood priority.
> 
> Which resorts have 2 or 3 bedroom lock-offs, good trade value and reasonable maintenance fees?
> ...



I don't think you need to buy points. Based on our conversations, it seems that you can travel in the low seasons and on short notice. Weeks in II is by far superior to DC points for off season exchanges. Points is simply too expensive, both in upfront costs and ongoing MFs. Our two weeks get us a little over 4000 DC points. However, to get the equivalent in DC that we get out of II, it would cost us over 10,000 DC points.

There is still lots of shoulder season availability in Marriott properties 6-12 months out. It is really just the prime stuff that doesn't get deposited until the last minute.

Our two Orlando 2BR gold weeks work great. Though I wouldn't suggest buying anything less than a platinum.


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## momeason (Jun 5, 2014)

Yes, we do love to travel in the shoulder seasons. We do not travel much in the summer. We prefer less crowds and less kids. We are flexible and can travel last minute much of the time.

Greg, 

Your information was just what I wanted. Thank you so much!

Sherry


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## dioxide45 (Jun 5, 2014)

momeason said:


> Yes, we do love to travel in the shoulder seasons. We do not travel much in the summer. We prefer less crowds and less kids. We are flexible and can travel last minute much of the time.



Then a Marriott week will be great. The preference is especially helpful as you were able to see. I don't see any reason to buy/rent points.

Here is our exchnage history using our 2013 deposits/weeks.


Traded Harbour Lake Studio in to 2013 2BR Aruba Surf Club in May - This would have cost 2,400 DC points.
Traded Harbour Lake 1BR in to 3BR Grande Vista in September - This would have cost 3,400 DC points.
Traded Grande Vista 1BR in to 3BR Ocean Pionte in September - This would have cost 3,700 DC points.
Traded Grande Vista Studio in to 1BR Custom House - This would have cost 3,175 DC points.

These transactions would have cost us 12,675 DC points. Much more than the 4,125 that we get if we elected points on our enrolled weeks. Renting points for those would cost about $6,000 at $0.50 per point. MFs on DC trust points are $0.45 per point. Still much more than the $2150 that we pay each year on our two weeks.

Of course, if you don't need 2BR or larger units, you can use DC points for smaller units and save a lot of costs with fewer DC points. Though still exchanging in to 1BR units, you will come out ahead with weeks in II vs DC trust points.


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## TRAVELING FOOL (Jun 5, 2014)

In response to Matt's comment on the difficulty of getting 5 night stays in HH, yes it is hard because the system wants you to use more points for a 7 night stay in high season. We were very lucky in 2013 to get 5 nights at Grande Ocean in July and this year 5 nights at Barony in July as well.  Both were booked approximately 6 mo prior and was amazed to have found them available. Not sure how this came about but made us very happy.


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## siesta (Jun 5, 2014)

icydog said:


> If she buys a DC contract how does it help with getting resorts in II?  I'm really serious.  I have my Lakeshore Reserve weeks showing in my II account but no points.  If I deposit my weeks into II will they go in as points?  I thought points were only used for Marriott resorts using their trading system.


 This should help your understanding, particularly post #9 and #16:


http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197374



Fasttr said:


> Although an option....I believe for a new Trust point owner, purchasing 1,500 points as a minimum is crucial as unless I am mistaken, 1,500 is considered a Base Interest in the program, to enable you to have unfettered access to all program benefits.


 This would be a very important caveat. I will definitely take your word for it;however, it would be nice to see some verification.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 5, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> I would have to review the docs again to be sure, but if memory serves, if you own less than a Base Interest (1,500 points as a pure Trust owner), your access to making ressies could be limited to the window 60 days before check in.  I believe you need to have a Base Interest in order to book in the normal windows (10, 12 and 13 months) as well as to have access to the other "collections" (trading points for ressies in II, Explorer Collection, etc).



A base interest is definitely 1,500 DC trust points. I recall an issue where someone on Redweek bought a 1,000 point deed and MVCI was telling them that they could only make reservations within 60 days with those points. They were also a legacy week owner. They were able to push the issue and get Marriott to open those points up. But I think it was only because they were also legacy owners with legacy points.

As a non Marriott owner, i would not recommend buying anything less than 1,500 DC points.


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## Fasttr (Jun 5, 2014)

siesta said:


> This would be a very important caveat. I will definitely take your word for it;however, it would be nice to see some verification.



Verification attached.  These are excerpts from the Trust Documents.  Without a Base Interest, you can only reserve inside of 60 days before check in.


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## Fasttr (Jun 5, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> A base interest is definitely 1,500 DC trust points. I recall an issue where someone on Redweek bought a 1,000 point deed and MVCI was telling them that they could only make reservations within 60 days with those points. They were also a legacy week owner. They were able to push the issue and get Marriott to open those points up. But I think it was only because they were also legacy owners with legacy points.
> 
> As a non Marriott owner, i would not recommend buying anything less than 1,500 DC points.



It appears from the excerpts posted in the previous post, a Base Interest for a Legacy owner is only 500 points, which is likely why the Legacy Owner was successful in the end.


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## siesta (Jun 5, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> Verification attached.  These are excerpts from the Trust Documents.  Without a Base Interest, you can only reserve inside of 60 days before check in.


Thank you much for taking the time to post that.  You were spot on.

Also, as to dioxides last comment, according to this document, if someone is a legacy owner a base interest is 500 points. Therefore, if they were a legacy owner that didn't convert, but bought a <1500 point contract, they should not be restricted to the 60 days or less reservation period.  Thus, it seems in his recollection of that redweek event, they weren't in fact doing the legacy owner a favor, but likely rectifying a system error.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 5, 2014)

siesta said:


> Thank you much for taking the time to post that.  You were spot on.
> 
> Also, as to dioxides last comment, according to this document, if someone is a legacy owner a base interest is 500 points. Therefore, if they were a legacy owner that didn't convert, but bought a <1500 point contract, they should not be restricted to the 60 days or less reservation period.  Thus, it seems in his recollection of that redweek event, they weren't in fact doing the legacy owner a favor, but likely rectifying a system error.



That legacy owner I referred to did enroll their weeks. I don't know if Marriott would consider an un-enrolled owner as a legacy owner for Base Interest purposes. It would be good to know though. Also, for arguments sake, Is someone who bought a post 6/20/2010 resale week considered a legacy owner?


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## Fasttr (Jun 5, 2014)

siesta said:


> Therefore, if they were a legacy owner that didn't convert, but bought a <1500 point contract, they should not be restricted to the 60 days or less reservation period.



You say a "Legacy Owner" who didn't convert.  By "convert" I am assuming you mean "Enroll".  By definition in the Trust docs, a "Legacy Owner" is an owner of week(s) who enrolled those week(s) in the program....so to be a Legacy Owner, you would have had to at least enroll 1 of your weeks.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jun 5, 2014)

If I really wanted a LO it would be a Beachplace platinum 2BDRM or non-LO it would be Newport Coast plat. both could be had for around $7-8k I think and both will trade exceptionally and be super nice to experience when you don't want to trade.


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## siesta (Jun 6, 2014)

Fasttr said:


> You say a "Legacy Owner" who didn't convert.  By "convert" I am assuming you mean "Enroll".  By definition in the Trust docs, a "Legacy Owner" is an owner of week(s) who enrolled those week(s) in the program....so to be a Legacy Owner, you would have had to at least enroll 1 of your weeks.


Yes, I meant to type enroll.

Ok, if thats the definition, and an owner is only considered a legacy owner if they enrolled their week(s) in the program, is your interpretation that if that person purchased a 250 point contract that those particular points could only be used 60 days or less? I'm just trying to determine the extent here.




dioxide45 said:


> Also, for arguments sake, Is someone who bought a post 6/20/2010 resale week considered a legacy owner?


 Apparently Fasttr says the docs read no.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 6, 2014)

siesta said:


> Yes, I meant to type enroll.
> 
> Ok, if thats the definition, and an owner is only considered a legacy owner if they enrolled their week(s) in the program, is your interpretation that if that person purchased a 250 point contract that those particular points could only be used 60 days or less? I'm just trying to determine the extent here.



That would make sense, but I think one has to buy at least a base interest. So there would be no points deeds out there for less than 500 points. For non enrolled owners, they would have to buy at least 1,500 points. While one can transfer only a portion of their BIs, I believe the docs also indicate that they can never sell or transfer points that would make them an owner of less than a base interest. The same would go for the person they are selling points to.


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## Fasttr (Jun 6, 2014)

siesta said:


> Ok, if thats the definition, and an owner is only considered a legacy owner if they enrolled their week(s) in the program, is your interpretation that if that person purchased a 250 point contract that those particular points could only be used 60 days or less? I'm just trying to determine the extent here.





dioxide45 said:


> That would make sense, but I think one has to buy at least a base interest. For non enrolled owners, they would have to buy at least 1,500 points. While one can transfer only a portion of their BIs, I believe the docs also indicate that they can never sell or transfer points that would make them an owner of less than a base interest. The same would go for the person they are selling points to.



Not to make things even more confusing, but we use the term Legacy Owner here on the TUG Marriott Board to mean any enrolled owner in the DC whether they own Trust points or not.  But the actual "Legacy Owner" terms is only defined as such in the Trust Docs, and as mentioned above, it has to be an enrolled owner, but it adds an additional requirement of *also* owning a *base interest *of Trust points.  

An enrolled owner who owns no Trust points is seemingly only covered by the Exchange Company docs and is called an Exchange Member.  

Just wanted to add that clarity to the discussion in case somebody is diving into the docs to follow all of this crappola.  

And sorry to the OP for high jacking the hell out of this thread with this boring document stuff, but as we all know, threads take a tangent on occasion.


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## Big Matt (Jun 6, 2014)

I got five nights at Grande Ocean in July of 2013 also.  Mine was right at the 10 month mark.  This year nothing ever showed up and the representative said that the wait list for seven days was already a mile long.  I never thought about looking for Barony and Surf Watch.



TRAVELING FOOL said:


> In response to Matt's comment on the difficulty of getting 5 night stays in HH, yes it is hard because the system wants you to use more points for a 7 night stay in high season. We were very lucky in 2013 to get 5 nights at Grande Ocean in July and this year 5 nights at Barony in July as well.  Both were booked approximately 6 mo prior and was amazed to have found them available. Not sure how this came about but made us very happy.


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## momeason (Jun 13, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> Then a Marriott week will be great. The preference is especially helpful as you were able to see. I don't see any reason to buy/rent points.
> 
> Here is our exchnage history using our 2013 deposits/weeks.
> 
> ...



Are all of these size upgrades during flex change? My question is does Marriott have automatic free size upgrades for instant exchange in II inventory like Starwood. If the 2 BR is in II inventory, I can pick it up with a 1 BR in or outside of Flexchange.
Still learning about Marriott.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 13, 2014)

momeason said:


> Are all of these size upgrades during flex change? My question is does Marriott have automatic free size upgrades for instant exchange in II inventory like Starwood. If the 2 BR is in II inventory, I can pick it up with a 1 BR in or outside of Flexchange.
> Still learning about Marriott.




Traded Harbour Lake Studio in to 2013 2BR Aruba Surf Club in May - This would have cost 2,400 DC points.
Traded Harbour Lake 1BR in to 3BR Grande Vista in September - This would have cost 3,400 DC points.
Traded Grande Vista 1BR in to 3BR Ocean Pionte in September - This would have cost 3,700 DC points.
Traded Grande Vista Studio in to 1BR Custom House - This would have cost 3,175 DC points.

The first and third ones on my list were outside of flex. The second and fourth inside flex. Though as you know, I recently picked up a Custom House outside of flex, though I used a 1BR to do it. The second one, we had initailly traded in to a 2BR outside of flex, then retraded in to the 3BR about two days before checkin.

Like your experience with Starwood, I can very often see larger units than the one I am trying to exchange with well outside of flex in II. 1BR units often see almost the exact same inventory as a 2BR in instant exchange. Studios are a little weaker. At 12-10 months out, they tend to only see other studios. Perhaps even a little longer. At about 6 months, they loosen up significantly and can usually see 1BR and 2BR units.

A good example of this. Our Ocean Pointe trade (item 3 on my list), we had intially traded the 1BR in to a 2BR about 12 months out. We couldn't pull off the trade with a studio in to the 2BR at the 12 month mark. When the 3BR popped up about three months out, I was also able to retrade in to it with the initial 1BR, but another studio we had on deposit was able to see the 3BR unit. I ended up doing the retrade as not to end up with a cancellation replacement and the 1BR deposit actually expired earlier anyway.


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## GreenTea (Jun 13, 2014)

You are all a wealth of information.  

How are ski resorts as traders?  Would a platinum week in a ski resort studio get us where we wanted to go?  Traveling in summer or over spring break is not required.  We could hit Hawaii most anytime of the year; same with other destinations.  We like a lot of places and have a child that skis, but for the most part we are not snow folk.

Are any of the Marriott ski places bad? (I realize some might be better)


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## momeason (Jun 13, 2014)

When you do retrades, do you have to pay more fees in the Marriott weeks system? Do you use e-trade?

I have never re-traded, but I do not own any studios. I used to have Wyndham studios with my points but i only used during flex.

I love the cost efficiency of my Starwood but I want Marriott priority also to complete my portfolio. I am facing sticker shock since the Starwood I bought and my previous Wyndham cost me almost nothing upfront. 

So far, I have been able to do anything I wanted in Marriott with some help from my friends..lol. Except of course what i needed for my nephew which just is not available. 

Difficult decision. I am taking it slow.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jun 13, 2014)

GreenTea said:


> You are all a wealth of information.
> 
> How are ski resorts as traders?  Would a platinum week in a ski resort studio get us where we wanted to go?  Traveling in summer or over spring break is not required.  We could hit Hawaii most anytime of the year; same with other destinations.  We like a lot of places and have a child that skis, but for the most part we are not snow folk.
> 
> Are any of the Marriott ski places bad? (I realize some might be better)



Studios don't do well no matter how powerful the trader unless it is shorter notice. For example no Marriott studio will get you a 2BR one year out except for very rare occasions that appears to be glitches.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jun 13, 2014)

momeason said:


> When you do retrades, do you have to pay more fees in the Marriott weeks system? Do you use e-trade?



For a normal II account you do have to pay to retrade Marriott to Marriott so adding E-Plus is the way to go. I add it to almost everything.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 13, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Studios don't do well no matter how powerful the trader unless it is shorter notice. For example no Marriott studio will get you a 2BR one year out except for very rare occasions that appears to be glitches.



It will get you a 2 br out at very nice but off season locations.  Studios have difficulty pulling 2 br even in shoulder season.

I can pull 2br Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, Williamsburg, Orlando (some Orlando's even in summer) in the dead of winter with a studio.  I live on the East Coast so I don't check out west too often.  You can go up to 1 br during shoulder/mid season without too much difficulty.  For example Nov-Feb no problem to use a M studio for a 2 br SC but there is usually such availability that you don't even need a Marriott to get these.  During the Spring and Fall (and off course summer) you can only pull 2 br during flex.  

I have pulled 2 br Hyatt;s during shoulder season with an M studio outside of flex.  It can also pull 2 br non Marriott's during summer but only in places with a lot of availability.  So even though it can't pull a 2 br Marriott in Williamsburg in the summer outside of flex it can pull other 2 br summer Williamsburg units outside of flex.


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## Pompey Family (Jun 13, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Studios don't do well no matter how powerful the trader unless it is shorter notice. For example no Marriott studio will get you a 2BR one year out except for very rare occasions that appears to be glitches.



Ah, that's not what I wanted to hear. We were considering locking off our Harbour Lake in an attempt to secure two weeks at Fords Colony next August which would necessitate booking well in advance in order to get a good flight deal. Would this be a tall order?


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## tschwa2 (Jun 13, 2014)

How many are travelling?  I think you have a good chance to get a 2 br with the 1 br and a 1 br with the studio in advance that you could probably (eplus if not enrolled) retrade into a 2 br during flex.  You could book a cancel able studio for the second week with a mod discount if available.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 13, 2014)

momeason said:


> When you do retrades, do you have to pay more fees in the Marriott weeks system? Do you use e-trade?
> 
> I have never re-traded, but I do not own any studios. I used to have Wyndham studios with my points but i only used during flex.
> 
> ...



The Marriott to Marriott exchange fee is $134. There is a $10 discount for performing the exchange online. If you do a retrade, you pay another exchange fee. Now that you can do retrades online, I suspect it would be at the discounted $124 fee.

However, as pointed out, if you think you will be retrading you can add EPlus to your trade. This is $49 and allows for up to three retrades. Though there are restrictions if you retrade inside the 59 day window.

Adding EPlus is an option with an individual II account with Marriott weeks in it where in a DC account it isn't. Since you own a non mandatory Starwood resort that you purchased resale, I suspect you have an individual II account that you pay for. With that, you can add the Marriott week to the same account.


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## momeason (Jun 14, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> The Marriott to Marriott exchange fee is $134. There is a $10 discount for performing the exchange online. If you do a retrade, you pay another exchange fee. Now that you can do retrades online, I suspect it would be at the discounted $124 fee.
> 
> However, as pointed out, if you think you will be retrading you can add EPlus to your trade. This is $49 and allows for up to three retrades. Though there are restrictions if you retrade inside the 59 day window.
> 
> Adding EPlus is an option with an individual II account with Marriott weeks in it where in a DC account it isn't. Since you own a non mandatory Starwood resort that you purchased resale, I suspect you have an individual II account that you pay for. With that, you can add the Marriott week to the same account.



Yes, I have an individual account.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 14, 2014)

momeason said:


> We are considering buying a Marriott week to add to our Starwood week.
> My nephew is interested and we may go in together. I want Marriott priority to add to my Starwood priority.
> 
> Which resorts have 2 or 3 bedroom lock-offs, good trade value and reasonable maintenance fees?
> ...



Unlike others, I don't buy into the salesmens scare tactic that weeks exchanges will dry up secondary to the advent of trust points. I also don't recommend paying MVCI's ridiculous price to buy a small trust points contract.

As to your question of which to buy, Grand Chateau has probably the best 3 bedroom units in the system. Their location at the resort is as the end of the wing and offers panoramic views of Las Vegas when you reserve the entire 3 bedroom unit or, better yet, it locks-off into a full 2 bedroom and full 1 bedroom unit. The fact the 3rd bedroom locks off and exchanges as a full 1 bedroom is the main reason we own there. Trading a 1 bedroom is easier than trying to trade up from a studio unit to a larger unit. Having that full 1 bedroom also allows us to use the ongoing search option with I.I. rather than relying on online searches to find something larger with the studio unit.

MF's are a little cost prohibitive at Grand Chateau. Last year they were a little north of $1,600. You also will have to take into consideration Grand Chateau is a Las Vegas resort. Many feel Las Vegas is "over developed" but we've always had good luck trading our Vegas weeks. A couple of years ago we traded Grand Chateau for Waiohi in Kuai. The exchange took less than a week to confirm. We've also exchanged the 1 bedroom unit for May weeks in Boston twice and traded up to a 2 bedroom Barony Beach on HHI using the 1 bedroom lockoff.

IMHO, the 3 bedroom units at Grand Chateau are some of the better units to own for exchange purposes within the MVCI system.


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## dougp26364 (Jun 14, 2014)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Studios don't do well no matter how powerful the trader unless it is shorter notice. For example no Marriott studio will get you a 2BR one year out except for very rare occasions that appears to be glitches.



Studio's do fine in online searches BUT, it depends on what you're looking to get. If you're wanting a larger unit in high season you'll be out of luck. We have, OTOH, used our studio unit to successfully trade up in size with online searches for shoulder season weeks. 

Examples would be: 2 bedroom unit at Willow Ridge for December in Branson (Christmas is still a busy time in Branson), 1 bedroom Sept. week at DSV II, retrades back into Ocean Pointe for 1, 2 and even 3 bedroom hurricane season weeks and the occasional 1 bedroom summer week and we've exchanged into 1 bedroom units for the summer at Mountain Valley Lodge in Breckenridge CO. 

The thing is you can't really do much as far as deposit and request. You have to search online and take what passes through all the pending requests. That said I wouldn't necessarily plan on buying a MVCI resort week with the intention of always being able to get something decent with the studio as an exhcanger.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jun 14, 2014)

In truth, MVCI has extorted MVCI Owners to benefit of their "Developer sales."


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## SueDonJ (Jun 14, 2014)

EducatedConsumer said:


> In truth, MVCI has extorted MVCI Owners to benefit of their "Developer sales."



See, this is the kind of thing that makes me think people have gone off the rails completely!  You can't just go to the extreme and say that Marriott has committed extortion without at least a minimal explanation.  I know when they sold their products to me, it wasn't under duress and there were no "buy it or ___" threats involved.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 14, 2014)

dougp26364 said:


> Studio's do fine in online searches BUT, it depends on what you're looking to get. If you're wanting a larger unit in high season you'll be out of luck. We have, OTOH, used our studio unit to successfully trade up in size with online searches for shoulder season weeks.
> 
> Examples would be: 2 bedroom unit at Willow Ridge for December in Branson (Christmas is still a busy time in Branson), 1 bedroom Sept. week at DSV II, retrades back into Ocean Pointe for 1, 2 and even 3 bedroom hurricane season weeks and the occasional 1 bedroom summer week and we've exchanged into 1 bedroom units for the summer at Mountain Valley Lodge in Breckenridge CO.
> 
> The thing is you can't really do much as far as deposit and request. You have to search online and take what passes through all the pending requests. That said I wouldn't necessarily plan on buying a MVCI resort week with the intention of always being able to get something decent with the studio as an exhcanger.



We still do quite well with our studios. Though like I indicated, it seems to require trading early and then retrading when the trade power on the larger units loosens up closer to checkin. So it may take a retrade or two now to get those larger units.


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## wesley (Jun 14, 2014)

*base interest*

We bought 1000 points in 2010.  We reserved Aruba in October 2014 well before a sixty day window.  How does this square with the "base interest" discussion earlier in this thread?


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## dioxide45 (Jun 14, 2014)

wesley said:


> We bought 1000 points in 2010.  We reserved Aruba in October 2014 well before a sixty day window.  How does this square with the "base interest" discussion earlier in this thread?



A Base Interest for a non legacy owner is 1,500 points. However, you own legacy weeks. A Base Interest is only 500 for legacy owners.


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## Ron98GT (Jun 15, 2014)

EducatedConsumer said:


> In truth, MVCI has extorted MVCI Owners to benefit of their "Developer sales."


Strange statement.  I'm a MVC Owner, but have never been "extorted" in any manner, directly or indirectly.  And I'm not sure what you mean by "to benefit of their "Developer sales.""

Are you a MVC owner?  When have you been "extorted"?


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## bogey21 (Jun 15, 2014)

I sold my Marriott's years ago.  The only one I would consider buying back is Monarch on HHI.  Last I looked it trades with *both* RCI and II and *annually* into MRP (although I hear this has recently been devalued].

George


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## Pompey Family (Jun 15, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> How many are travelling?  I think you have a good chance to get a 2 br with the 1 br and a 1 br with the studio in advance that you could probably (eplus if not enrolled) retrade into a 2 br during flex.  You could book a cancel able studio for the second week with a mod discount if available.



There will be four of us travelling, two adults, two kids. I've always seen Ford's Colony available when looking at possible trades with our two bedrooms but having never locked off I have no idea of the type of trades to expect.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 15, 2014)

I live about 5 hours from Williamsburg so I kind of know the availability.  You will have no problem getting a 2 br at Ford's Colony with your 1 br.  My suggestion is to grab a 1 br with the studio if you can't get a 2 br and add eplus (if you are not enrolled).  The problem is the 2 br's there don't sit in inventory to make it to flex and I don't see every week pop up last minute.  So probably by early May you would need to decide whether you would prefer a 1 br for the second week at M's Ford Colony or would prefer a 2 br non Marriott in Williamsburg- which there will still be several in all likelihood to choose from (this option only works if you are not enrolled and had eplus for the week).  Then you can continue to look and if a 2br pops up at Fords Colony you can switch back.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 15, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> I live about 5 hours from Williamsburg so I kind of know the availability.  You will have no problem getting a 2 br at Ford's Colony with your 1 br.  My suggestion is to grab a 1 br with the studio if you can't get a 2 br and add eplus (if you are not enrolled).  The problem is the 2 br's there don't sit in inventory to make it to flex and I don't see every week pop up last minute.  So probably by early May you would need to decide whether you would prefer a 1 br for the second week at M's Ford Colony or would prefer a 2 br non Marriott in Williamsburg- which there will still be several in all likelihood to choose from (this option only works if you are not enrolled and had eplus for the week).  Then you can continue to look and if a 2br pops up at Fords Colony you can switch back.



It still works if you don't have EPlus because you are enrolled. By being enrolled, you can still do retrades for no additional cost. You still end up paying close to the same.


Unenrolled Onwer using EPlus - Initial Trade $124+$49=$173, retrade $0.
Enrolled Owner - Initial Trade in to Marriott $0. Retrade in to Non Marriott $164.

So an enrolled owner saves a little over an unenrolled owner using EPlus. You just have to be content with the non Marriott since a trade back in to MMC/MSE will cost another trade fee.

The standard exchange fee will go up as of July 1, 2014. Not sure if the Marriott to Marriott fee will go up also or not. So that increase may change these number slightly.


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## Beefnot (Jun 15, 2014)

SueDonJ said:


> See, this is the kind of thing that makes me think people have gone off the rails completely! You can't just go to the extreme and say that Marriott has committed extortion without at least a minimal explanation. I know when they sold their products to me, it wasn't under duress and there were no "buy it or ___" threats involved.





Ron98GT said:


> Strange statement. I'm a MVC Owner, but have never been "extorted" in any manner, directly or indirectly. And I'm not sure what you mean by "to benefit of their "Developer sales.""
> 
> Are you a MVC owner? When have you been "extorted"?



My guess, maybe the creation of the DC and/or the distortions, lies--maybe even truths to some extent--from sales people that have owners experiencing, either real or perceived, diminishment of their ability to exchange into other Marriott's via II. And thus they must now purchase points in order to enjoy their membership in the same way as they had previously.


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## tschwa2 (Jun 15, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> It still works if you don't have EPlus because you are enrolled. By being enrolled, you can still do retrades for no additional cost. You still end up paying close to the same.
> 
> 
> Unenrolled Onwer using EPlus - Initial Trade $124+$49=$173, retrade $0.
> ...



Yes but if you are enrolled you are much less likely to pay the $174  and then you are stuck without paying another $174.  I actually think the $49 with the multiple in and out of M works better in a situation like this.


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## aka Julie (Jun 15, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> The standard exchange fee will go up as of July 1, 2014. Not sure if the Marriott to Marriott fee will go up also or not. So that increase may change these number slightly.



Where did you see the II fee increase published?

Last time the M to M fee didn't go up.  Bet we're not so lucky this time around.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 15, 2014)

aka Julie said:


> Where did you see the II fee increase published?
> 
> Last time the M to M fee didn't go up.  Bet we're not so lucky this time around.



Check out post #21 of this thread.


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## Pompey Family (Jun 16, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> I live about 5 hours from Williamsburg so I kind of know the availability.  You will have no problem getting a 2 br at Ford's Colony with your 1 br.  My suggestion is to grab a 1 br with the studio if you can't get a 2 br and add eplus (if you are not enrolled).  The problem is the 2 br's there don't sit in inventory to make it to flex and I don't see every week pop up last minute.  So probably by early May you would need to decide whether you would prefer a 1 br for the second week at M's Ford Colony or would prefer a 2 br non Marriott in Williamsburg- which there will still be several in all likelihood to choose from (this option only works if you are not enrolled and had eplus for the week).  Then you can continue to look and if a 2br pops up at Fords Colony you can switch back.



It all sounds like a bit of a hassle. I think we'll stick to using two 2br weeks and try and book at the 12 month window as we need to have our holiday arrangements sorted well in advance. Thanks for the advice from everyone.


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## momeason (Jun 16, 2014)

*Is Florida club worth paying a lot more upfront?*

I am considering 3 br Grande Vista as an option but it appears that it is difficult to get thru ROFR at a low price. How much value does the Florida Club have? I honestly do not expect to use it every year so I am considering purchasing a property with a lower upfront cost than this one. Also, since we do not travel much in peak season, I may not need the extra trade value of the 2 bedroom. We can usually do with a one bedroom unit, we just enjoy taking friends when I score a 2 bedroom.
Of course, we do not know what the future will hold with married children and possible grandkids. Lots of considerations!!
I have never paid much for any of my TS purchases so it will take a lot to get me to put down close to $10,000. ( I know, I am cheap. i always have been )
Being cheap has helped us arrive to where we are today. We can afford to spend a little more now but a lifetime of saving is, fortunately, a difficult habit to break.
I drive a 2006 Prius also. It fits, doesn't it?


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## dioxide45 (Jun 16, 2014)

I recall seeing an EOY Harbour Lake gold 2BR end on EBay at either $1 or with no bids. I don't know what would get past ROFR, but if you want to be cheap, a gold MGV or MHZ unit fits the bill. All of my trades are with gold Harbour Lake or gold Grande Vista. Everyone will tout the 3BR GV, but this was a much better deal a couple years ago when they sold for $3000-$5000. Getting in the $7000 range puts them out of my reach too, even though we paid that much for our gold GV 2BR back in 2007.

Since you can travel in shoulder or off season, a 3BR Grande Vista is overkill IMO.

I certainly wouldn't pay any extra to get the Florida Club. It is a nice perk if you ever use it. In all of our years of ownership we haven't used it once.


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## taterhed (Jan 15, 2015)

momeason said:


> I am considering 3 br Grande Vista as an option but it appears that it is difficult to get thru ROFR at a low price. How much value does the Florida Club have? I honestly do not expect to use it every year so I am considering purchasing a property with a lower upfront cost than this one. Also, since we do not travel much in peak season, I may not need the extra trade value of the 2 bedroom. We can usually do with a one bedroom unit, we just enjoy taking friends when I score a 2 bedroom.
> Of course, we do not know what the future will hold with married children and possible grandkids. Lots of considerations!!
> I have never paid much for any of my TS purchases so it will take a lot to get me to put down close to $10,000. ( I know, I am cheap. i always have been )
> Being cheap has helped us arrive to where we are today. We can afford to spend a little more now but a lifetime of saving is, fortunately, a difficult habit to break.
> I drive a 2006 Prius also. It fits, doesn't it?





dioxide45 said:


> I recall seeing an EOY Harbour Lake gold 2BR end on EBay at either $1 or with no bids. I don't know what would get past ROFR, but if you want to be cheap, a gold MGV or MHZ unit fits the bill. All of my trades are with gold Harbour Lake or gold Grande Vista. Everyone will tout the 3BR GV, but this was a much better deal a couple years ago when they sold for $3000-$5000. Getting in the $7000 range puts them out of my reach too, even though we paid that much for our gold GV 2BR back in 2007.
> 
> Since you can travel in shoulder or off season, a 3BR Grande Vista is overkill IMO.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't pay any extra to get the Florida Club. It is a nice perk if you ever use it. In all of our years of ownership we haven't used it once.




Can anyone shed some lite on what price I might expect to get a 3br GV or 2br GV (plat lockoff) past FROR?

I'm looking for a good trader too!

Thanks


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 15, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Can anyone shed some lite on what price I might expect to get a 3br GV or 2br GV (plat lockoff) past FROR?
> 
> I'm looking for a good trader too!
> 
> Thanks



With plentiful units like GV you should completely ignore ROFR. The reasons are because 1) you can't know and nobody can tell you exactly what the ROFR threshold is, 2) there will always be more to buy if it fails, 3) mass sellers many times pump up the ROFR price to account for total paid by both buyer and "seller" (this is legitimate because commision paid by seller should be part of the "purchase price"), and 4) sometimes mass sellers are holding unpaid maintenance fees that won't be released if Marriott exercises. The best method is to pay as little as possible and see how it goes. 

The only time you possibly want to factor in ROFR is on a rare unit that doesn't come up often and you really want it.


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## bogey21 (Jan 15, 2015)

EducatedConsumer said:


> In truth, MVCI has extorted MVCI Owners to benefit of their "Developer sales."


"Extorted" is a strong word.  I prefer "Bait and Switch". My beef with Marriott (which caused me to sell) is the way they devalued MRP and their Rental and  Resale Programs which were keys to my buying.

George


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## kds4 (Jan 15, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Can anyone shed some lite on what price I might expect to get a 3br GV or 2br GV (plat lockoff) past FROR?
> 
> I'm looking for a good trader too!
> 
> Thanks



I can tell you that I recently sold one of my Grande Vista 3BR L/O Gold Season units for $4,500 and Marriott took it ROFR.


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## taterhed (Jan 15, 2015)

Yeah, I  would think so.  I'm thinking some where around $7500 (platinum)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 15, 2015)

kds4 said:


> I can tell you that I recently sold one of my Grande Vista 3BR L/O Gold Season units for $4,500 and Marriott took it ROFR.



You should have sold through Marriott's broker department and gotten $5,700. That unit sells like hotcakes. I sold my EOY through them and got $2,850. The sale was immediate, no wait list. The resale department has no 3BR units of any kind so they are just waiting for someone wanting to sell.

My guess on ROFR threshold for platinum is $5,500 for 2BR and $8,500 for 3BR.


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## kds4 (Jan 15, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> You should have sold through Marriott's broker department and gotten $5,700. That unit sells like hotcakes. I sold my EOY through them and got $2,850. The sale was immediate, no wait list. The resale department has no 3BR units of any kind so they are just waiting for someone wanting to sell.
> 
> My guess on ROFR threshold for platinum is $5,500 for 2BR and $8,500 for 3BR.



We did speak with MVCI Resales, and while the math is correct we were told that there were more than 40 MGV 3BRs for sale ahead of us, but they could certainly add us to the list. We declined and sold ours through Redweek.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 15, 2015)

kds4 said:


> We did speak with MVCI Resales, and while the math is correct we were told that there were more than 40 MGV 3BRs for sale ahead of us, but they could certainly add us to the list. We declined and sold ours through Redweek.



That's odd but I know they don't always provide current info. I know that right now the list is zero. I called them in September on my EOY and there was no wait. I had a contract less than a week later.

On sometimes not providing current info. I was on the waitlist to sell some Ocean Pointe 2BR OF Silver units. I was checking their listings one day and noticed that my unit type was no longer listed as an option to buy. I called and they said that there is still a wait. I questioned why it wasn't listed for someone to buy and I got a runaround answer. I pushed the issue and was placed on hold. When the rep returned they apologized and said they were working off an old list. There was no wait. They sent listing agreements and I had contracts on both units in just a few days.

When I sold the MGV EOY I also sold a DSVII White EOY. Also no wait list and had a contract in a few days.

I think they sometimes give bogus answers on brokered sales because they want to do a direct buyback. That or the reps are just lazy and unmotivated on brokered sales. 

Once the economy turned around and they started moving brokered units those wait lists that contained hundreds of names evaporated because it wasn't current. Many owners had already sold elsewhere or had been foreclosed.


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## kds4 (Jan 15, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> That's odd but I know they don't always provide current info. I know that right now the list is zero. I called them in September on my EOY and there was no wait. I had a contract less than a week later.
> 
> On sometimes not providing current info. I was on the waitlist to sell some Ocean Pointe 2BR OF Silver units. I was checking their listings one day and noticed that my unit type was no longer listed as an option to buy. I called and they said that there is still a wait. I questioned why it wasn't listed for someone to buy and I got a runaround answer. I pushed the issue and was placed on hold. When the rep returned they apologized and said they were working off an old list. There was no wait. They sent listing agreements and I had contracts on both units in just a few days.
> 
> ...



That's good to know should we ever decide to sell another week.


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