# Does Worldmark have the most expensive timeshare resort in the U.S.?



## cruisin (Oct 2, 2007)

Need some help.

Some friends who own Worldmark and I were discussing some of the nicer timeshares and their cost, Hyatt/Marriott/Hilton/Disney etc, and the WM downtown San Diego resort was brought up in the discission. A 1 bedroom averaging 475 square feet with no pools, spas, or parking cost $27,000 at 15,000 credits X $1.80 per credit developer cost when usage started. Are there any Mainland U.S. timeshares being sold in a similar unit with similar amenities for more than $27,000?

Manhatten Club in New York was brought up, but we did not know how much they sell for?


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## kewanee (Oct 2, 2007)

WOW - that does sound hard to beat!   Assuming you only wanted to use that San Diego week every year (so giving no value to the fact you could
turn those 15000 credits into 2 weeks at other locations) - you could still factor in that most of the other high priced ones cannot be purchased on the resale market for less than half while WM is easily done so.  Also, the maintenance fees for that San Diego unit would be about $800 and I'm pretty sure the other high priced ones are way more than that.


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## DaveNV (Oct 2, 2007)

Just did a quick Google search.  According to this website ( http://www.vacationtimesharerentals...shares/New-York/New-York/Manhattan-Club,-The/ ) the resale prices at The Manhattan Club run the gamut from as low as $5250.00 to as high as $40,000, depending on size and week.  But those are asking prices, and only on one reseller website.

Either way, $27K for a studio sounds pretty pricey.  When I attended a TS pitch from Consolidated Resorts in Hawaii last spring for Tahiti Village in Las Vegas, one of the couples in attendance were delighted to have spent $29K pus turning in two other timeshares for whatever it was they bought.  They were thrilled.  I was appalled.  

Dave


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## cruisin (Oct 2, 2007)

I was just looking for developer prices, it was really an eye opener looking at the cost for these units.


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## mshatty (Oct 2, 2007)

Doesn't the new Marriott being built at Marco Island have some units in excess of $100,000?


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## cruisin (Oct 2, 2007)

kewanee said:


> WOW - that does sound hard to beat!   Assuming you only wanted to use that San Diego week every year (so giving no value to the fact you could
> turn those 15000 credits into 2 weeks at other locations) - you could still factor in that most of the other high priced ones cannot be purchased on the resale market for less than half while WM is easily done so.  Also, the maintenance fees for that San Diego unit would be about $800 and I'm pretty sure the other high priced ones are way more than that.



Good point on the maintenence fees  I know that Four seasons Aviara is around $2000 for the 2 bedroom, for arguments sake, $1200 for the 1 bed side and $800 for the studio side. I am guessing that the studio at FSA is at least as big, and the amenities are crazy better. 
I have not been to the Sandiego resort, I have a friend that is going in 2 weeks and will report back.

I agree also in getting more out of 15,000 credits than Sandiego, but just looking at the cost to buy in developer for the purpose of staying at this resort really is amazing compared to what $27,000 developer can get you, I would hate to be in sales at San diego


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## cruisin (Oct 2, 2007)

mshatty said:


> Doesn't the new Marriott being built at Marco Island have some units in excess of $100,000?



Does the Marriott Marco Island have any pools or spas?


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## Steamboat Bill (Oct 2, 2007)

mshatty said:


> Doesn't the new Marriott being built at Marco Island have some units in excess of $100,000?



yes they do, and it will be a nice resort with pools and everything...


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## somerville (Oct 2, 2007)

cruisin said:


> Some friends who own Worldmark and I were discussing some of the nicer timeshares and their cost, Hyatt/Marriott/Hilton/Disney etc, and the WM downtown San Diego resort was brought up in the discission. A 1 bedroom averaging 475 square feet with no pools, spas, or parking cost $27,000 at 15,000 credits X $1.80 per credit developer cost when usage started. Are there any Mainland U.S. timeshares being sold in a similar unit with similar amenities for more than $27,000?


What about PerryM's timeshare in Las Vegas?  Wasn't it around $100K?

Condo prices in San Diego have tanked.  Did Worldmark buy the property before the decline in prices?


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## cruisin (Oct 2, 2007)

I do not think Perry's is 475 square feet, and it probably has pools and spas. I got the 475 square feet by averaging the 395-555 square feet 1 bedrooms at the San Diego resort.  I can't even imagine the amenities associated with Perry's Vegas timeshare.


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## Jya-Ning (Oct 3, 2007)

If you insist, I guess it maybe most expense 475 sq ft, no amenities TS.  Although, have you check the close by sister company Wyndham (FF)'s resort, I believe it is 203K for stdio, abut same size or 100 sq ft bigger, with quote $175 per 1k, it is about $35k per red week.

Jya-Ning


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## Steamboat Bill (Oct 3, 2007)

somerville said:


> What about PerryM's timeshare in Las Vegas?  Wasn't it around $100K?



I believe that was a 4 bedroom corner penthouse unit.


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## cruisin (Oct 4, 2007)

Jya-Ning said:


> If you insist, I guess it maybe most expense 475 sq ft, no amenities TS.  Although, have you check the close by sister company Wyndham (FF)'s resort, I believe it is 203K for stdio, abut same size or 100 sq ft bigger, with quote $175 per 1k, it is about $35k per red week.
> 
> Jya-Ning



Good info, that is very close, I guess one would have to average the FFs 52 weeks,  to compare since the worldmark has no seasons. Since Worldmark is not deeded. We had never really thought about the cost of this individual resort. The cost  is surprising considering the almost total lack of amenities. We always thought of Worldmark as moderately priced. This one sure wasn't.


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## PerryM (Oct 4, 2007)

cruisin said:


> Need some help.
> 
> Some friends who own Worldmark and I were discussing some of the nicer timeshares and their cost, Hyatt/Marriott/Hilton/Disney etc, and the WM downtown San Diego resort was brought up in the discission. A 1 bedroom averaging 475 square feet with no pools, spas, or parking cost $27,000 at 15,000 credits X $1.80 per credit developer cost when usage started. Are there any Mainland U.S. timeshares being sold in a similar unit with similar amenities for more than $27,000?
> 
> Manhatten Club in New York was brought up, but we did not know how much they sell for?



The other way to look at this is to rent 15,000 credits at 6 cents each = $900 for the week with NO purchase of WM credits.  Out of that 6 cents 4.5 cents is MF so you pay just 1.5 cents more than if you bought the credits resale for no more than 70 cents each.


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## thinze3 (Oct 4, 2007)

Perry, it looks like you killed another perfectly good thread. :hysterical:


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## cruisin (Oct 4, 2007)

PerryM said:


> The other way to look at this is to rent 15,000 credits at 6 cents each = $900 for the week with NO purchase of WM credits.  Out of that 6 cents 4.5 cents is MF so you pay just 1.5 cents more than if you bought the credits resale for no more than 70 cents each.



I agree 100%, your rental method is excellent, 

My friends and I were  just looking at the cost of buying developer to stay at this resort, compared to other developer costs at other resorts


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## Rent_Share (Oct 4, 2007)

Trendwest (I believe) has killed the point rental opportunities



> eBay eBay Listing Removed (=PS &12363 JM144077453) Sep-21 Oct-21
> eBay eBay Listing 150164247547 Cancelled - Results Null and Void Sep-23 Oct-23
> eBay eBay Listing Removed (=PS &12363 JM148622088) Oct-02 Nov-01
> eBay eBay Listing Removed (=PS &12363 JM148622088) Oct-02 Nov-01
> ...



These are just ones I bid on, If they are watched they just dissapear

Taking them out of the eBay market place increases the risk and availability of points


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## RichM (Oct 4, 2007)

Actually, it's an E-bay Square Trade thing.. I forget the reasoning, but E-bay has decided to disallow credit rental listings by non Square Trade verified members (or something like that).

There was a long discussion of this new policy on wmowners.com here: 
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11895


___________________
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      - www.wmowners.com


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## Rent_Share (Oct 5, 2007)

Two more cancelled today  - from the major resellers - who are square trade verified.

Must be Square Trade Verified - A Pain if not impossiblefor the One time Renter adding to the cost and inconvenience

Must state a specific location and date 

This is not consistent with the points, yet the points are being held to the same standard as a travel certificate.

I believe there is a mole at Trendwest with an ongoing search reporting the auctions daily.

The open availability of rental points was a critical part of my purchase decision, with the "protections" of the eBay Market Place, I am now being *protected* from renting the points effectively doubling my required investment and contractual obligation on an annual basis


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## cotraveller (Oct 5, 2007)

You can rent credits on the WorldMark Forum, either as a seller or buyer.  http://forums.trendwest.com/ubb-threads/ubbthreads.php

You need to be registered as an owner to access the rental board, which takes a few days to get verified after you initially sign up.  With only verified owners having access it provides a little security against possible scams.  I don't think that is a big problem though, I have not heard of many people having problems with credit rentals anywhere.


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## mtribe (Oct 5, 2007)

You can also rent at www.wmowners.com It is terrible that ebay will allow this to happen.  There had been quite a good market there and the value of points was doing quite well for owners.  I think there probably is someone closely associated with WVO keeping their eyes on it.  If you keep close attention on ebay you can sometimes catch them before it is yanked and then communicate with the seller to try and negotiate a purchase


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## PA- (Oct 5, 2007)

That is disgusting.  But fortunately, if the mood of the owners at the owner's meeting is any indication, the owners are just about done putting up with Wyndham's (and our Worldmark board's) antics.  I thought during the owner's meeting that someone was gonna produce a rope and look for a branch.  That's how angry and upset the owners seem to be with the bandits.  I don't know how our board can sleep at night.


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## Rent_Share (Oct 5, 2007)

cotraveller said:


> You can rent credits on the WorldMark Forum, either as a seller or buyer.  http://forums.trendwest.com/ubb-threads/ubbthreads.php
> 
> You need to be registered as an owner to access the rental board, which takes a few days to get verified after you initially sign up.  With only verified owners having access it provides a little security against possible scams.  I don't think that is a big problem though, I have not heard of many people having problems with credit rentals anywhere.



I have never been able to get the illusive "rental section? to show up.

The censorship of public discussion of pricing on that forum, is rumored to create rental pricing that is based on the sales lies from the presentation, I must rely on what is posted on wmowners since I cannot see points for rent on the official 4m

My 2 cents


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## cotraveller (Oct 6, 2007)

Rent_Share said:


> I have never been able to get the illusive "rental section? to show up.
> 
> The censorship of public discussion of pricing on that forum, is rumored to create rental pricing that is based on the sales lies from the presentation, I must rely on what is posted on wmowners since I cannot see points for rent on the official 4m
> 
> My 2 cents



The Rental Board on the WorldMark Forum is the last one on the list.  As I said, you need to be registered as an owner to access it.  That means you supply your owner number in your registration and it is verified before you can access that board.

The pricing there is reasonable for the most part and if you are comparing it to eBay prior to their recent restrictions, was nearly always considerably lower.  However, if you wish to shop elsewhere that is your choice.  It leaves more credits there for the rest of us.


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## PA- (Oct 6, 2007)

While there are other, harder to find sources for rental credits, Ebay is most readily available to the average owner who doesn't read the forums.  

I think I can hazard a pretty accurate guess as to the identity of the busybodies that are notifying Ebay.  Why should Wyndham pay somebody to do what a few misguided owners will do for free?  Nobody's interests are served other than Wyndham's by doing this.


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## PerryM (Oct 6, 2007)

Is this for sure - a WM owner can't use eBay anymore to list WM credits for rent?

If so, why?  I don't understand this.


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## roadsister (Oct 6, 2007)

Wyndham has employees that check Ebay along with other sites.....and then of course there are the Ebay employees that are searching their own site for those not adhearing to their rules.

It is too bad indeed that they have disallowed rentals of credits as some do buy there.

As to the rentals....the Worldmark forum has the lowest prices in my searches. I have rented credits there from 2 cents per to 5.5 cents... there are other sites but they are asking 7-9 cents per credit....

I have 2 friends that have been scammed from E-bay....that would make me nervous about renting there.


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## PerryM (Oct 6, 2007)

roadsister said:


> Wyndham has employees that check Ebay along with other sites.....and then of course there are the Ebay employees that are searching their own site for those not adhearing to their rules.
> 
> It is too bad indeed that they have disallowed rentals of credits as some do buy there.
> 
> ...




What did I miss here?  Is this not a restraint of trade and opening WM/WN and eBay to massive lawsuits?

How can eBay be singled out and not other sites.

Somehow I don't think I've got the whole picture on this.

If it is I would encourage all of you to immediately try to rent 100 WM credits on eBay to be included in the lawsuit.

I am.


-Or-

Are we saying that this is just eBay's policy and since WM credits are not tied to a deed that eBay has decided to do away with this and WM/WN are silent on this issue?  

This sounds like something the WM BOD should be getting into - this affects ALL WM owners.  The BOD needs to contact eBay and explain the situation and allow members to rent again.

The next logical step is to ban ALL WM credit resales completely on eBay for the same reason.

This is no small matter.


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## roadsister (Oct 6, 2007)

oops, double post


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## roadsister (Oct 6, 2007)

Perry,

I think if Ebay sets up their rules and people participate there with knowledge of those rules there couldn't be a lawsuit...my guess would be that the Ebay rule applies to other timeshare companies rentals of points/credits/whatever they are called.

p.s. Let me know how much those 100 credits rent for....


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## PerryM (Oct 6, 2007)

roadsister said:


> Perry,
> 
> I think if Ebay sets up their rules and people participate there with knowledge of those rules there couldn't be a lawsuit...my guess would be that the Ebay rule applies to other timeshare companies rentals of points/credits/whatever they are called.
> 
> p.s. Let me know how much those 100 credits rent for....





Ok, so this seems to be just an eBay policy and not the work of WM/WN.

Since you must provide proof of ownership to eBay, via Square Trade, this should be a simple thing to overcome - fax a copy of the 4 page WM ownership documents to Square Trade.

I find it hard to believe that eBay is finding these listings and then investigates the ownership documents in Square Trade.  But, maybe that's all they have time to do anymore.


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## PA- (Oct 6, 2007)

It may be a Ebay policy, but someone other than ebay is monitoring auctions and reporting them.  Ebay might catch some, but not as quickly and completely as they are unless someone was monitoring.

THe only possible reason Wyndham would have for doing so is they want to shut down the rental of credits, without appearing to be the bad guy.  I can't imagine the motivation of owners reporting it, other than some misguided belief that they'll be better liked by the Wyndham employees for being their "hall monitor".


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## roadsister (Oct 6, 2007)

PA- said:


> It may be a Ebay policy, but someone other than ebay is monitoring auctions and reporting them.  Ebay might catch some, but not as quickly and completely as they are unless someone was monitoring.
> 
> I wouldn't be so naive to think that they DON'T have Ebay employees monitoring the site...afterall, they must have the public trust in order to do the kind of business that they do.  I think that would be an absurd idea to imagine people calling them with something they've seen on Ebay and tell them to take it off now!...lol
> 
> THe only possible reason Wyndham would have for doing so is they want to shut down the rental of credits, without appearing to be the bad guy.  I can't imagine the motivation of owners reporting it, other than some misguided belief that they'll be better liked by the Wyndham employees for being their "hall monitor".



I'm not sure what your last paragraph meant    but found it amusing...I am sure there are other reasons possible that perhaps you or I haven't thought of.....but by Trendwest, and now Wyndham...checking ebay *I *am refering to trademarked pictures, etc. (which they have done for years and caught people)....you must have assumed I meant credit rentals.


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## roadsister (Oct 6, 2007)

Perry wrote; "Since you must provide proof of ownership to eBay, via Square Trade, this should be a simple thing to overcome - fax a copy of the 4 page WM ownership documents to Square Trade."


Perry,

I hear what you are saying here, BUT... just because WM says YOU can sell your one time credits doesn't mean that Ebay MUST abide by that and let them do it on THEIR site, right?  Ebay makes their own rules and if you don't like them you have the ability to go elsewhere would be my take.
Again, for Ebay to do the volume of business they do they HAVE to have the public's confidence and trust so to have people on their payroll checking out the accuracy and honesty in ads doesn't seem like an extraodinary step.


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## PerryM (Oct 6, 2007)

roadsister said:


> Perry wrote; "Since you must provide proof of ownership to eBay, via Square Trade, this should be a simple thing to overcome - fax a copy of the 4 page WM ownership documents to Square Trade."
> 
> 
> Perry,
> ...




I'd bet that the listings pulled did not have the eBay member showing that they owned WM credits.  You are supposed to do that with Square Trade when you buy or sell a timeshare that will then be rented on eBay.

So it should be a simple fax to solve the problem.  If not eBay needs to explain what is going on.

If other WM owners want to rat out other owners and turn them in (for not violating ANY eBay rule) then I suspect an owner controlled WM BOD is in for a rocky ride.


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## PA- (Oct 6, 2007)

roadsister said:


> I'm not sure what your last paragraph meant    but found it amusing...I am sure there are other reasons possible that perhaps you or I haven't thought of.....but by Trendwest, and now Wyndham...checking ebay *I *am refering to trademarked pictures, etc. (which they have done for years and caught people)....you must have assumed I meant credit rentals.



Now who's being naive.  Ebay doesn't give a rip about the public trust.  They OWN squaretrade, it's all about money.  Squaretrade is a joke, it doesn't ensure anything.  All you have to do is verify you own ANY timeshare, they only check once.  Then you're certified as long as you pay them.

I'm sure Ebay monitors, but the fact that these credit rental auctions are all pulled immediately indicates they're getting help.


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## roadsister (Oct 6, 2007)

Perry,

Have you talked to Ebay and actually ASKED what is going on?  They might enlighten you and you can share with the rest of us...they may even give you a way around it .... never hurts to ask rather than go on someone elses assumptions.  You know what assume means right???


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## roadsister (Oct 6, 2007)

Ebay could very well have temp help...who knows...everyone has a opinion on what is going on I guess.  Even I have one 

Call and ask them. *You could get a fact based answer.*


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## drguy (Oct 6, 2007)

Ebay allows WM credit rentals if they are being listed by a SquareTrade Travel Verified member, or so it appears.
Hope this is helpful.  
Guy


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## PA- (Oct 6, 2007)

This issue is being discussed at wmowners.com, and people HAVE reported the answers they got from Ebay.  Ebay does NOT allow credit rentals anymore, regardless of squaretrade


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## PerryM (Oct 6, 2007)

roadsister said:


> Perry,
> 
> Have you talked to Ebay and actually ASKED what is going on?  They might enlighten you and you can share with the rest of us...they may even give you a way around it .... never hurts to ask rather than go on someone elses assumptions.  You know what assume means right???



Well, I could care less.  I don't rent WM credits.  Just wanted to make sure the WM/WN folks haven't decided to take away another right we have.


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## cruisin (Oct 6, 2007)

Many have tried to reason with Ebay, and point out that wm credits really should be allowed to be sold, and even a few ebay representatives agree, but until they change the policy, no go. Ebay is not hunting these  listings down, they are turned in by other ebayers for whatever reason. Square trade does not matter, can't rent points from any timeshare system , you must book a week and rent out a specific week, and of course be sqauretrade. This policy sure seems to have raised the price of credit rentals outside of ebay. Definitely a plus for Wyndham, they obviously want credit costs higher. It is true that the Wyndham site worldmarktheclub.com has cheaper prices. Without the free flow of information there, the owners renting credits are at a great disadvantage, and very often rent their  credits for far less than they are actually worth. 4-6 cents a credit have been had in the last 30 days...


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