# Ticked off with WiFi charges



## Dori (Mar 1, 2009)

We have been in Florida for 5 weeks.  For 3 of the weeks, WiFi was free.  Ironically, these were the 3 smallest resorts  ( Calini, Lahaina and Vistana's Beach Club).  Last week, at Silver Lakes, there were charges for it.  This week, at Grand Beach, they want to charge $9.99 per day!! Plus, they are working on upgrading their internet, so they can't even guarantee anything more than spotty reception! This is ridiculous!  I know this topic has been addressed before, just wanted to vent.

Dori


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## Big Matt (Mar 1, 2009)

Dori,
I know you are venting, but at least you are at a resort that has it.  I've been to some resorts that don't have it at all.  I would have paid $10 a day just to have it for sure.


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## riverdees05 (Mar 1, 2009)

It is a cash cow for the resorts that charge for it.  I have usually gotten a weekly rate that was far better than the daily rate x 7.


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## ausman (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm like you. I believe the resorts should be providing it as a service as they provide phone service, cable TV etc.

For those that don't, which are getting fewer, there seem to be enough free sites that with a little inconvenience can be utilised. I'm a Library person and most local libraries have free wifi and I visit them once a day to catch up.

There are the Starbucks and other places  that can be used also.


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 1, 2009)

*A Vacation From The Computer Rather Than Vacationing With A Computer.*

By the time we come round to the idea of taking an electric computer with us on vacation, either the timeshares will have progressed to the point of providing wi-fi (or something like it) on the same basis as cable TV, or the whole system of world-wide interconnectedness will have moved past wi-fi & on to the next nifty technological phenomenon, rendering wi-fi old hat. 

Before long -- if it's not here already -- there will be an affordable service that wirelessly provides portable computers with high-speed Internet access in a way that's comparable to how cell phones connect wirelessly to the conventional hardwired telephone network. 

Meanwhile, the progress of personal technology keeps on accelerating.  The younger crowd is moving past cell phones & on to pocket-size computer-like communication devices -- iPhones & Palm Pilot Blackberries & I don't know what-all.  Those devices work just fine as cell phones, but the younger generation rarely uses'm that way -- hardly ever uses the telephone feature except for calling up the old folks.  

I used to chuckle at the backward ways of the old folks.  Now I _am_ old folks, stuck in my own technically challenged rut & sinking deeper & deeper into backwardness with each passing day.  So it goes. 

( Don't try to call me.  I'll try to call you. )

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Sea Six (Mar 2, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> Before long -- if it's not here already -- there will be an affordable service that wirelessly provides portable computers with high-speed Internet access in a way that's comparable to how cell phones connect wirelessly to the conventional hardwired telephone network.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



It's already here in the form of a USB MODEM.  Just plug it into a USB port and get 1mb/s downloads wherever you can get a cell tower signal.  Cost for me as an existing customer = $0  ($50 for the part - $50 instant rebate).  It's all I need on vacation, just for paying bills, surfing the net, and checking e-mails.

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...t&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=3304


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 2, 2009)

*(More) Good News On The Technological Front.*




Sea Six said:


> It's already here in the form of a USB MODEM.  Just plug it into a USB port and get 1mb/s downloads wherever you can get a cell tower signal.  Cost for me as an existing customer = $0  ($50 for the part - $50 instant rebate).  It's all I need on vacation, just for paying bills, surfing the net, and checking e-mails.


OK, I'm holding out for something like that. 

Meanwhile, the rapid advance of those technological developments may well mean that savvy timeshare HOA-BODs do not need to rush into installing free wi-fi or any kind of wi-fi now that the advent of personal USB modems, etc., is about to leapfrog & bypass the whole concept of wi-fi. 

It's just 1 more reminder (as if any more were needed) that Alexander Pope (1688–1744) was on to something when he said *. . .* 

_Be not the first by whom the New are try'd,
Nor yet the last to lay the Old aside._​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Stu (Mar 2, 2009)

*Owners, not resort companies, are who usually pay*

When you say WiFi should just be free at any resort, remember in most cases it's not the "resort" Developer (Wyndham, Diamond etc.,) that pays for it, but the owners through their maintenance and reserve fees.  

(Separate but tangental issue: Many things at newer resorts like weekly pool lunch parties and other activities are "free" to owners and guest initially only because they are funded by Marketing fees from Developer Sales Operations, and get "paid" by the huge markup to the direct -from-Developer timeshare purchaser.  New owners assume or are led to believe these are all a part of their purchase package, but once most of the units are sold, goodbye freebies!)

Most Hotels/Motels now generally provide free internet, if not free WiFi, because they must attract and retain business clients who are their "cash cow".  But they just roll this cost up into the price of their room rates, so that every guest pays for it indirectly, whether they use it or not.

There is always the question at resorts as to who should pay.  Speaking from experience as being an Owner and a Director at Cypress Pointe Resort at Lake Buena Vista ("CPR"-a.k.a. "Phase 1"), one of the most progressively owner controlled and oriented resorts in America, this issue has come up frequently.

CPR has already upgraded its internet infrastructure at least 3 times at no small expense, and there is now WiFi in every suite, throughout the Clubhouse, and around the outdoor main Volcano Pool area including the entire outdoor Clubhouse balcony (the new recreation center service is TBD).  CPR has contracted with an outside ISP to provide the service which connects to the CPR infrastructure which is owned by the Owners Association.

The fees at CPR are currently just $4.95 per day or $18.95 per week, which most of those asked have agreed are fair prices to pay for the internet service received.  All complaints are handled toll-free by the ISP, not resort, personnel, and when there are unresolved connectivity problems, the ISP does give refunds as credits to the original charge card.  Most times the ISP walks the customer through the problem, even at 2 in the morning.  (The resort couldn't afford to have its own internet support staff on call 24/7, so that cost is also avoided.)

At CPR, there are guests and owners that sometime split their use weeks and don't need or want the weekly service as they may only be there Thurs - Sun, 3 nights or Sun - Thurs., 4 nights.  So they may only want service for 2 days.  (By the way, when splitting a week into 2 segments, the resort does charge an additional ceaning fee for the second use.  This additional housekeeping cost is tied to the user of this benefit, not spread out to all of the owners who might use a full week and wouldn't have incurred the additional fee.  Same goes for those who split thier 3 bedroom week into a studio week and a 2 BR week; the extra fees involved are only for those who split the usage, not charged to all owners, again pay as you go.)

Yes, the resort does make some money on the internet service, and that money received is only fair as it helps pay for the ongoing cost of maintenace, replacement or upgrading of the equipment.  I would not consider it a "cash cow."  It also places the cost burden on the users of the services, many of which are not resort owners, rather than having the owners having to pay for services they might not even want to use.  By not automatically making the owners pay for the ISP service, this helps the resort keep its maintenance fees down two ways.  First by lowering the maintenance fees directly and in doing so keeping bad debt reserves lower based on the lower maintenance fees.

When I stayed in Mexico at the Mayan Resorts in Nuevo Vallarta, I had to pay by the hour at the business center (which was not even in the Grand Mayan,  but the building next door, a moderate walk away) using a prepaid card with login code that: 1. frequently gyped you out of a minute or two every time you logged in, 2. cost about $5 - $10 per hour, and 3. was not very fast, even for direct hookup.  Or you had to go off-site into town to an internet cafe where the fees were somewhat lower.  I had this similar experience at the Casa Maya in Cancun, in other countries as wel, and in Kona, Hawai'i.

When the CPR Board takes polls on the issue at its Yahoo egroup site, the majority of the CPR owners agree that it should be charged separately from their maintenance fees, and let it be "pay as you go" for those who want it.  As a Board, we represent the owners and feel that by providing a state-of-the-art WiFi access, but on a "pay as you go" basis at a reasonable price, that this is the fairest way for all.

For the associations, there is no such thing as a free lunch or a free internet.

Best regards,
Stu Schwartz


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## jdetar (Mar 2, 2009)

Agreed on the Verizon solution. I have Verizon evdo card built into my laptop, and pay $60/mo for the service, unlimited usage. Coverage is great across the states so I bring my WiFi with me wherever we go. I even use it on the road trips to and from vacations and can get work done the whole time.

For me it makes sense as I need it for business, but even for personal use this is becoming more and more common and usable. Especially if you're paying a place $10/day for WiFi. This way, you can use it everywhere.. for the whole month, for $60.

WiFI at Starbucks isn't free anymore as they use AT&T (unless you're using it with your iphone, then it's free). But you can still find a lot of free hot spots like Panera Bread. Either way, Panera's is still pretty crap and slow so evdo is faster and more reliable yet again. I've been using it for nearly 3 years now and haven't found a better solution... yet! But 3G is here and once there is better coverage this will be a truly viable option.


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## cotraveller (Mar 2, 2009)

This is an issue that has been discussed among WorldMark owners too.  Most WorldMark resorts now have high speed internet access.  Wired, through a power line modem, not wireless.  You can buy a small wireless router to carry with you if you want wireless access.  They are readily available and relatively inexpensive.

It is not a free service.  The cost is $5.95 per day, with an option of 10 consecutive days access for $15.95 (good at multiple resorts) or an annual subscription for $49.95.  It seems like a fair approach, let those that use the service pay for it, and the cost is not unreasonable.  If your account includes the TravelShare option access is included as part of that option at no additional cost above the TravelShare dues.

For those non-WorldMark resorts we visit that insist on charging a high fee (I've seen $10 per day and up with no weekly or other discounts) I maintain a dial up account with Budget Dial-up service.  It's a pay as you go service, $9.95 for 20 hours access with other rates available for different amounts of time.  Dial-up is slow and painful when you're used to high speed access.  But when we're travelling I don't use it for much more than email and a little web access so it works for me.


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## Kozman (Mar 2, 2009)

jdetar said:


> Agreed on the Verizon solution. I have Verizon evdo card built into my laptop, and pay $60/mo for the service, unlimited usage. Coverage is great across the states so I bring my WiFi with me wherever we go. I even use it on the road trips to and from vacations and can get work done the whole time.
> 
> For me it makes sense as I need it for business, but even for personal use this is becoming more and more common and usable. Especially if you're paying a place $10/day for WiFi. This way, you can use it everywhere.. for the whole month, for $60.
> 
> WiFI at Starbucks isn't free anymore as they use AT&T (unless you're using it with your iphone, then it's free). But you can still find a lot of free hot spots like Panera Bread. Either way, Panera's is still pretty crap and slow so evdo is faster and more reliable yet again. I've been using it for nearly 3 years now and haven't found a better solution... yet! But 3G is here and once there is better coverage this will be a truly viable option.



Be careful if you try to download a lot of data.  I have the same $60 Verizon plan and it is essentially unlimited if you stay below 5 gig per month.  If you exceed your 5 gig monthly limit you are charged $0.25 per meg!  Download a gig file (approx. 20% of a dvd) over your limit and you owe an additional $250.

Also, be careful if you use your internet card near the Canadian (or Mexican) border.  While up in northern MI across the river from Canada I incurred a $450 bill since my card hit the Canadian tower instead of the US tower.  I got it reversed, but not without a hassle.


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## jdetar (Mar 2, 2009)

Kozman said:


> Be careful if you try to download a lot of data.  I have the same $60 Verizon plan and it is essentially unlimited if you stay below 5 gig per month.  If you exceed your 5 gig monthly limit you are charged $0.25 per meg!  Download a gig file (approx. 20% of a dvd) over your limit and you owe an additional $250.
> 
> Also, be careful if you use your internet card near the Canadian (or Mexican) border.  While up in northern MI across the river from Canada I incurred a $450 bill since my card hit the Canadian tower instead of the US tower.  I got it reversed, but not without a hassle.



wow.. good information, however I don't have a 5GB cap. My contract is older, before those newer limits are in place.. but still excellent point about the Canadian border!


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## Sea Six (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm not looking for huge file transfers while on vacation - just some web surfing and e-mail.  It's still a MUCH better solution than wifi when they want to charge you by the day, and the service is available just about anywhere-even in your car while you're driving ( and the wife is using the PC - not the driver!). Can't do that with wifi.  Helps pass the time on long trips, and makes up for the fact that most places don't offer free wifi, but do have cell coverage.  The wifi we've seen so far is not even as good as the G3 service due to congestion.


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## geekette (Mar 2, 2009)

Sounds like you're doing the right thing for the resort, the owners, and the guests!




Stu said:


> When you say WiFi should just be free at any resort, remember in most cases it's not the "resort" Developer (Wyndham, Diamond etc.,) that pays for it, but the owners through their maintenance and reserve fees.
> ......
> When the CPR Board takes polls on the issue at its Yahoo egroup site, the majority of the CPR owners agree that it should be charged separately from their maintenance fees, and let it be "pay as you go" for those who want it.  As a Board, we represent the owners and feel that by providing a state-of-the-art WiFi access, but on a "pay as you go" basis at a reasonable price, that this is the fairest way for all.
> 
> ...


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## bogey21 (Mar 2, 2009)

jdetar said:


> Agreed on the Verizon solution. I have Verizon evdo card built into my laptop, and pay $60/mo for the service, unlimited usage. Coverage is great across the states so I bring my WiFi with me wherever we go.



I do exactly the same thing.  Verizon at $60 per month where ever I may be, home or on the road, works beautifully for me.

George


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## dioxide45 (Mar 2, 2009)

Stu said:


> When the CPR Board takes polls on the issue at its Yahoo egroup site, the majority of the CPR owners agree that it should be charged separately from their maintenance fees, and let it be "pay as you go" for those who want it.  As a Board, we represent the owners and feel that by providing a state-of-the-art WiFi access, but on a "pay as you go" basis at a reasonable price, that this is the fairest way for all.
> 
> For the associations, there is no such thing as a free lunch or a free internet.
> 
> ...



I think the problem might be that the owners truly don't know what it will cost them in their MF. They think it will cost them ~$20 because that is what it costs them if they want to buy it a-la-carte. The thing is that only maybe 10-30% of the people pay for and use the fee a-la-carte Internet. Just a guess since I don't have actual numbers. If it were included, usage would likely be higher. If you take that and spread it out over 100% of the owners the cost maybe drops to $5 or less a week. You are probably also able to negotiate a better rate with the ISP if they know exactly what they will be getting each month/year from the resort. Right now it is a gamble for them and they have to build costs in to cover that. If no one pays they earn nothing, if everyone pays, they have a guarantied income and can offer a better deal over all.

At Marriott's Grande Vista we paid $2.97 for one week for 2009 for the high speed Internet provided by an outside company that also handles their own tech support. Marriott has probably been able to negotiate a good rate as many of their resorts use the same company.

That $5 is a small price to pay. Since not only will it give you Internet service for all but make the resort more desirable. Many people wouldn't even notice the amount in their MF.


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## timeos2 (Mar 2, 2009)

*Technology may preclude ever offering "free" high speed by resorts*



dioxide45 said:


> At Marriott's Grande Vista we paid $2.97 for one week for 2009 for the high speed Internet provided by an outside company that also handles their own tech support. Marriott has probably been able to negotiate a good rate as many of their resorts use the same company.
> 
> That $5 is a small price to pay. Since not only will it give you Internet service for all but make the resort more desirable. Many people wouldn't even notice the amount in their MF.



The amount would be around $3-$5 / week /year.  But if only 40% of owners want it (about the response we get in unscientific surveys) then 60% are paying $3-$5 for something they don't really want (yet).  

We have other, more universally desired uses for EVERY $3-$5 per week we can raise in the annual fees. While it seems small it isn't the only want or need that requires funding. I'll bet most would prefer a nicer or larger LCD TV or granite counter tops in the units vs "free" Internet service for their extra $5.  I also think the year will come when adding universal Internet may make sense IF services like Verizon (and others) 3G Broadband wireless doesn't take over that market like cell phones have basically replaced wired phones for most travelers.  If most users start using universal wireless then the need for a local source of WiFi or wired high speed may be moot.


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 2, 2009)

*Timeshare Free Amenities I'd Rather Have Than Free Wi-Fi.*




timeos2 said:


> I'll bet most would prefer a nicer or larger LCD TV or granite counter tops in the units vs "free" Internet service for their extra $5.


More complimentary coffee filter packs (enough for a whole week). 

Premium deluxe timeshare soap (e.g, Crabtree & Evelyn). 

More premium HBO channels on cable TV. 

Plenty of free computer terminals in the owners' lounge or business center. 

DVD library in the main lobby or game room (movies for owners & guests to sign out for viewing in the timeshare unit). 

High-quality fitted bottom sheets that _stay on_ -- i.e., with corners that don't pull off overnight.  

Plastic or laminated timeshare I.D. card for owners, with account & unit numbers, resort & reservation desk phone numbers, & photo of owner (optional).  Could double as unit room key card when appropriately coded by front desk staff at check-in using existing card-coding technology & equipment. 

Mini-golf. 

More than 1 of the above. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ausman (Mar 2, 2009)

What does providing basic phone service cost.

I'd rather have internet service, if that is the way the discussion is going.

Besides, eliminating phone service would cut down on those annoying sales calls for those who do not unplug the phones, in an active sales resort.


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 2, 2009)

*Great Idea -- But Needs 1 Low-Tech Refinement.*




basham said:


> What does providing basic phone service cost.
> 
> I'd rather have internet service, if that is the way the discussion is going.
> 
> Besides, eliminating phone service would cut down on those annoying sales calls for those who do not unplug the phones, in an active sales resort.


Taking out the phones will necessitate installing some means of emergency communication so owners & guests can call 9-1-1 in case of fire or serious accident or critical illness (e.g., heart attack, stroke, seizure, etc.). 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Sea Six (Mar 3, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> If most users start using universal wireless then the need for a local source of WiFi or wired high speed may be moot.



Absolutely.  I can't see every single building spending the money for a wifi network when a single cell tower will cover everything in a 5 mile radius.  The way things are changing in the wireless world, I see wifi as today's 8 track tape player.  Everyone wants it this year, but who will be sorry they spent money on one 3 years from now?


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## Happytravels (Mar 5, 2009)

*No Phones*

I happen to own at a resort that doesn't have any phones in the units.  To me it is a great feature. There is a pay phone on the premises.  There are know sales wheasles and nothing to wake up my family when they are asleep.  We take our cell phones if we need to use the phone.  





AwayWeGo said:


> Taking out the phones will necessitate installing some means of emergency communication so owners & guests can call 9-1-1 in case of fire or serious accident or critical illness (e.g., heart attack, stroke, seizure, etc.).
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## JeffW (Mar 5, 2009)

I see two different topics in this thread.

The first is "price for internet access".   I'm not opposed to paying for it, but there is a big difference between "$3-$5/wk", "$15 for 10 days", and much higher prices.  At Atlantis last Fall, I think it was $68 for the week (actually is was pay by the day, with odd prices).  While not a timeshare, on my annual Las Vegas trip, I'm always disgusted that I can stay at a Fairfield or La Quinta (sometimes for not that high a room rate), and get free internet, but then when I move to the Orleans Casino for the rest of my stay, it's $11/day for wireless internet (for some of our nights this year, about 25% of the room rate - ridiculous!)

The other issue is "...if $5 was added to the maintenence fee, what should it be for..."    I agree this could become a can of worms, as there could be good justifications for every additional or upgraded item or service.  What I can say is while I might _like _ more cable channels, an HD tv vs a standard definition tube one, or premium toiletries over standard ones, the service I _have _paid extra for, and will continue to do so, is internet access.  

I'd guess that probably 95%+ of timeshare travellers that have internet access at home have 'high speed internet', either thru their cable or phone company, that's restricted to their physical house.  Very few likely have 'portable' internet access: dialup or broadband internet (ie. a cellular modem), which means when they travel, they basically need their lodging provider to provide internet service for them.  It's interesting that "removing room phones" was mentioned, as which of us doesn't already travel with their own phone service (cell phones)?  

Jeff


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## Neesie (Mar 5, 2009)

JeffW said:


> I'd guess that probably 95%+ of timeshare travellers that have internet access at home have 'high speed internet', either thru their cable or phone company, that's restricted to their physical house.  Very few likely have 'portable' internet access: dialup or broadband internet (ie. a cellular modem), which means when they travel, they basically need their lodging provider to provide internet service for them.  It's interesting that "removing room phones" was mentioned, as which of us doesn't already travel with their own phone service (cell phones)?
> 
> Jeff



The last few vacations I've been on the concierge has given me a thumbs up on NOT bringing my laptop.  Judging by this thread I am probably in the minority of people who travel dis-connected.  I don't bring my cell phone, either, because my husband brings his.  I'd like to keep the calls to a minimum and have no e-mails that can't wait for my return.  Even though we have a cell phone I prefer using the condos hardwired phone for a clear connection.  I'm not technically challenged, just technically independant.


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 5, 2009)

*Getting Away From It All.*




Neesie said:


> I'm not technically challenged, just technically independant.


It's not much of a vacation if I'm still anchored to various routine concerns back home via electric computer & cell phone.  

Even so, we now make sure we have our cell phone along with us when we're away. 

Plus, when the timeshare resorts have (free) computer rooms with (free) Internet, we'll use'm if the waiting line's not too long. 

One time, we scored a bunch of Disney pins via Craig's List in Orlando for our grandnieces. 

Another time, we rented out our Orlando timeshare via E-Mail while we were vacationing in Orlando at somebody else's timeshare. 

Is this a great country or what ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## shmuggee (Mar 5, 2009)

*Reasonable rates*

I have no problem paying for services - but like most of us, I don't want to get taken for a ride.

Explain to me, if you can, why I can stay at the Extended Stay family of hotels, and pay a one time charge of $5 for my entire stay, and have all the wifi I need?


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## JeffW (Mar 5, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> It's not much of a vacation if I'm still anchored to various routine concerns back home via electric computer & cell phone...




What someone does on a vacation is very arbitrary.  If wireless internet access is frowned upon, because it might encourage web surfing, when you should be 'vacationing', is a resort that has premium cable channels, or a large/HD tv, any better?  If you don't have an HD tv at home, but do at your resort (with real HD programming), I bet you'll be watching TV more you normally would. 

I probably am on the web during a vacation more than I should be.  On the one hand, it is a vacation, a difference from your ordinary day.  On the other hand, some things in your life just don't stop.  Personally, I'd rather take some time everyday to read my emails (if I'm otherwise not doing anything) then to have a week or two worth of them to sift through when I get back home.  

I confess I also check my work email, but that's more because I'd rather take a few minutes to give a reply or straighten out a problem then have it sit for a week.  Especially in this climate, I'd rather not have someone say, "I'm waiting for Jeff to get back to me..."  It's not a requirement of my company that we do this, I'd just rather avoid any potential situation before it arises.

Jeff


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## Phill12 (Mar 5, 2009)

As a owner of two weeks I do understand wanting everything they can get free! We like free better than paying for anything.

 We have computers in our club house for a fee and this can take care of people that want to just touch base at home and take care of some business.

 When our daughter is up there she always has her own computer and has to pay the fee's if she wants to use it and she understands this. Doesn't like it but understands it.

 Why would owners be expected to pay this charge through their maintenance fee's like us for two weeks when we don't use a computer while on vacation.

 I feel its like smoking or gas taxes that if your using then pay the fee but others not using shouldn't have to pay for you to use free of charge. Many travelers even now days don't use their computer while on vacation.  

  PHIL


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## CharlesS (Mar 6, 2009)

*Why waste money on coffee?*



SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> Why would owners be expected to pay this charge through their maintenance fee's like us for two weeks when we don't use a computer while on vacation.


We don't drink coffee and the first thing we do is hide that crazy, tall coffee maker that takes up so much valuable counter space.  Why waste my maintenance fees paying for other people's coffee and sugar and shampoo and hair conditioner (we bring good stuff from home). 

I am glad I am not on an HOA BOD and have to put up with all of the different preferences of all of the owners and those who exchange in.  Thanks to John, Stu, and the rest of the BOD for surviving the ordeal and striking a good balance for CPI.

Charles


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