# there I go again



## ronparise (Sep 11, 2012)

Ive been saying that the ebay auctions with closing and transfer fees paid by the seller usually get bid up too high. and the better buys are often the auctions with high fees and closing costs, because there is often little or no competition 

I pleased to say, at least tonight,  I was wrong, I placed a bid on 308000 points mf $5.12/1000 and I won at just over a half a years mf


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## rrlongwell (Sep 11, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Ive been saying that the ebay auctions with closing and transfer fees paid by the seller usually get bid up too high. and the better buys are often the auctions with high fees and closing costs, because there is often little or no competition
> 
> I pleased to say, at least tonight,  I was wrong, I placed a bid on 308000 points mf $5.12/1000 and I won at just over a half a years mf



Congatulations.


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## slip (Sep 12, 2012)

Ron

Are you even keeping track of how many points you own anymore?


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## Sandy VDH (Sep 12, 2012)

yeah, and I thought you were not buying anymore. 

If you find some deals that you like but decide you really don't need anymore points let me know.  I am considering some more points.


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## Ridewithme38 (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm guessing Ron's Wyndham points amount is slowly catching up to the Population of the US...Even with all the kids being born everyday


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2012)

slip said:


> Ron
> 
> Are you even keeping track of how many points you own anymore?



I knew an engineer years ago that carried a notebook with him wherever he went. You could ask him what he did on a particular day two years before and he could go to his bookshelf, pull out the notebook for that day and tell you....Ive never been so anal but recently (due to my advanced age and the number of balls I have in the air at any one time) have begun to mis-trust my memory.  So yesterday I bought a notebook....Page one has a list of what I own, what Im buying and my maintenance fees....If everything Ive contracted for and made offers on come to be, Ill have just under 5 million Wyndham points by New Years, page 2 has a list of reservations made and rented, and page 3 has a list of reservations made and not yet rented (the difference between page two and three is where In going to be vacationing myself)


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2012)

Sandy VDH said:


> yeah, and I thought you were not buying anymore.
> 
> If you find some deals that you like but decide you really don't need anymore points let me know.  I am considering some more points.



I wasnt.  But people kept calling to rent and I didnt have anything to offer them. It bugs me that you might have some money ready to spend, and I cant get it...So I jumped back in with both feet


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## Sandy VDH (Sep 12, 2012)

I should send you my workbook with several spreadsheet that I track Wyndham points with.  Are you excel savvy at all?  If so it might be helpful.


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## cotraveller (Sep 12, 2012)

ronparise said:


> I knew an engineer years ago that carried a notebook with him wherever he went. You could ask him what he did on a particular day two years before and he could go to his bookshelf, pull out the notebook for that day and tell you....Ive never been so anal but recently (due to my advanced age and the number of balls I have in the air at any one time) have begun to mis-trust my memory.  So yesterday I bought a notebook....Page one has a list of what I own, what Im buying and my maintenance fees....If everything Ive contracted for and made offers on come to be, Ill have just under 5 million Wyndham points by New Years, page 2 has a list of reservations made and rented, and page 3 has a list of reservations made and not yet rented (the difference between page two and three is where In going to be vacationing myself)



You realize that if you want to be like us engineers (retired in my case) you need the proper uniform to go with that notebook.  White shirt with a pocket protector full of pens, blue pants, and brown shoes. That's the best of the best in engineering attire. It gives you a professional look when you meet with your clients.


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## antjmar (Sep 12, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Ill have just under 5 million Wyndham points by New Years,


5 MILLION!!!   thats gotta  be a record!  good luck with the rentals!


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2012)

antjmar said:


> 5 MILLION!!!   thats gotta  be a record!  good luck with the rentals!



thats no record...Ive met folks here that have more than that, they just keep a lower profile than me


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## jjmanthei05 (Sep 12, 2012)

Sandy VDH said:


> I should send you my workbook with several spreadsheet that I track Wyndham points with.  Are you excel savvy at all?  If so it might be helpful.



I built one as well showing me the point cost for each reservations, what the points would have been with no discount/upgrade, HK credits that would have been required, who rented it, if they paid, and if I issued guest certificate. It figures out my profit along with how much VIP is making me vs if I would have done resale only. 

Jason


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## rrlongwell (Sep 12, 2012)

ronparise said:


> I wasnt.  But people kept calling to rent and I didnt have anything to offer them. It bugs me that you might have some money ready to spend, and I cant get it...So I jumped back in with both feet



Maybe you should have gone the manage a account for others route.  Less maintance fees that way.


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## slip (Sep 12, 2012)

Congratulations, I bet you never thought you would be a millionaire. 
Well kind of. 

You must be doing something right. You have more demand than points and
with what your doing that's important. I wish you continued success.


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Maybe you should have gone the manage a account for others route.  Less maintance fees that way.



Im a little bit too selfish and too greedy for that

I thought about it but realized that when I had a choice...to present something from my own account or from a client account..Id choose mine every time

That doesnt make for a good client relationship, so I opted to service only my own account


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## rrlongwell (Sep 12, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Im a little bit too selfish and too greedy for that
> 
> I thought about it but realized that when I had a choice...to present something from my own account or from a client account..Id choose mine every time
> 
> That doesnt make for a good client relationship, so I opted to service only my own account



Understand, however, one question as it relates the client relations issue, your primary client appears to be yourself, from your posts I am not sure that department is in any particularly better shape.


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2012)

jjmanthei05 said:


> I built one as well showing me the point cost for each reservations, what the points would have been with no discount/upgrade, HK credits that would have been required, who rented it, if they paid, and if I issued guest certificate. It figures out my profit along with how much VIP is making me vs if I would have done resale only.
> 
> Jason




Im not nearly so organized...and I really dont care how much I could be making if only I was a Gold VIP or how much less I would have made except for the Silver VIP, 

I dont have a payroll to meet, nor do I have office rent or in fact, any overhead except mf 

I know my cost  per point and I make a go or no go decision each time I rent a reservation.. Almost always the decision is "Go" if its profitable and "No Go" if not... and I dont need a complicated formula in a spreadsheet to make that decision

My biggest concern is ending the year with unused points so I use the points credit pool and let Wyndham keep track


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## jebloomquist (Sep 12, 2012)

*Tax question*



ronparise said:


> My biggest concern is ending the year with unused points so I use the points credit pool and let Wyndham keep track



Do you have any concerns about the taxman? Are you keeping enough information to show any profit or loss?

I spent a bit getting Platinum this year and I have rented points to guests. The net would be a fair loss for 2012. But I am not sure if I even want to think about it. 

How do you or any other TUGGER who rents and guests others handle the profit and loss data for tax purposes?


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2012)

jebloomquist said:


> Do you have any concerns about the taxman? Are you keeping enough information to show any profit or loss?
> 
> I spent a bit getting Platinum this year and I have rented points to guests. The net would be a fair loss for 2012. But I am not sure if I even want to think about it.
> 
> How do you or any other TUGGER who rents and guests others handle the profit and loss data for tax purposes?



First of all there is no loss. If there was a loss, one year there will be no business the next.  

There are two reasons to keep good records, one is to satisfy the IRS and the second is so you can make informed decisions about operating your business, 

All thats important to the IRS is "money in" and "money out" Some years ago I confirmed that when I went through an IRS audit, of my rental realestate business (slum landlord) ... I had good records of the money I spent and rent I collected (money in vs money out) and I walked out of that audit with my return accepted as filed

So Im doing the same thing with timeshares..i know my income (and paypal keeps great records) and I know my expenses ( a drawer full of mf bills) and will pay taxes on the difference... I account for my own use by paying myself fair market rent..


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## gdunn (Sep 12, 2012)

So Ron has all kinds of points and rents them out?


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## Sandy VDH (Sep 12, 2012)

gdunn said:


> So Ron has all kinds of points and rents them out?



gdunn

Gee, why would you think that?  You must be new to these parts.

He has stated so much, so why the need to ask if that is the situation. 

Ron

Can you pay yourself as an expense in terms of hours.  That would increse your expenses?


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## ronparise (Sep 12, 2012)

Sandy VDH said:


> gdunn
> 
> Gee, why would you think that?  You must be new to these parts.
> 
> ...



Sure but it doesnt make any difference. if I pay myself, it may be an expense on the business side but its income on the personal side and very much subject to tax. 

In fact when you consider the self employment tax (social security and medicare) is roughly 15%, I think Im better off leaving it on the  business side


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## gdunn (Sep 13, 2012)

Sandy VDH said:


> gdunn
> 
> Gee, why would you think that?  You must be new to these parts.
> 
> ...



Actually, I am new to these parts. I'm still learning things. Bear with me.


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## simpsontruckdriver (Sep 13, 2012)

One idea if a person runs out of points and has renters: asking others. For instance, if a Platinum (or VIP) owner has used up all his/her points, he can ask another owner. The Platinum takes the $$$ from the renter, takes his cut, forwards the rest to the other owner with the renter's information. The Platinum doesn't have to buy more points, gets some profit, and the other person gets his points rented out. "Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".

Just an idea, but if the Platinum/VIP has the resources to buy more for his rental company, go for it!

TS


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## am1 (Sep 13, 2012)

What do you feel is a good return on your costs?


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## rrlongwell (Sep 13, 2012)

am1 said:


> What do you feel is a good return on your costs?



I am assuming this was addressed to Ron?  I have heard rental companies want 20-33 percent of gross rental.  Wyndham Extra Holidays wants 40 percent.  Since Ron primarily rents his own, I am assuming his expected profit margins would approximate these ranges.  I am assuming he does not keep buying timeshares to rent for maintance fees.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 13, 2012)

I need to get such a notebook.  I have so many things going on at once, and most of it is related to timeshare.  I have points to bank by a certain date, and weeks that are expiring in II, and I need to call Starwood and figure out what weeks ARE expiring in II at the same time.  I also have a week the closing company left our son's name off, and Starwood wants a separate II account for it, so I am getting that fixed, but it requires notary signatures for four of us, all in different places.  I have a deed to get from our safe deposit box, which I sold a few days ago.  Geesh, it goes on and on.  My head is spinning.   

Everything I am doing has an "urgent" message in my head, but I get sidetracked.

I have been rearranging the entire house, and Rick asked where the parts to the steamer were, so he could clean the shower grout.  I couldn't remember for the life of me, so I went through about half the house and made a spreadsheet, alphabetical order, where things are, and I sent it to him, still incomplete, but it had the steamer parts listed as utility room, cabinet one, second shelf.  I need to finish that the next few days.  He goes nuts trying to find things.  

Today I moved all of the lightbulbs into one drawer.  That would make him nuts to see them gone from the spot he is used to, so I added it to the spreadsheet just now.


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## ronparise (Sep 13, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I need to get such a notebook.  I have so many things going on at once, and most of it is related to timeshare.  I have points to bank by a certain date, and weeks that are expiring in II, and I need to call Starwood and figure out what weeks ARE expiring in II at the same time.  I also have a week the closing company left our son's name off, and Starwood wants a separate II account for it, so I am getting that fixed, but it requires notary signatures for four of us, all in different places.  I have a deed to get from our safe deposit box, which I sold a few days ago.  Geesh, it goes on and on.  My head is spinning.
> 
> Everything I am doing has an "urgent" message in my head, but I get sidetracked.
> 
> ...



The notebook is write down my "to do list" and to record the events of the day...or at least those things that I think Ill want to remember later,,,like a journal or a young girls girls diary

A lot of what goes in the notebook is added to my online calendar or spreadsheets later

As far as the stuff around the house....I moved from 2700 sq feet to 1500 
and filled up a dumpster or two in the process...I rent what I dont have own anymore, and pay someone to do the really dirty jobs....and Im happier for it


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## jjmanthei05 (Sep 13, 2012)

jebloomquist said:


> Do you have any concerns about the taxman? Are you keeping enough information to show any profit or loss?
> 
> I spent a bit getting Platinum this year and I have rented points to guests. The net would be a fair loss for 2012. But I am not sure if I even want to think about it.
> 
> How do you or any other TUGGER who rents and guests others handle the profit and loss data for tax purposes?



My accountant lol But honestly that's what I have the spreadsheet for. So I can show sales, points used, money spent, Guest certificates purchased, ect. It has become much more useful once i started renting points from other owners. It helps me keep everything straight and where my reservations are.

Jason


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## am1 (Sep 13, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I am assuming this was addressed to Ron?  I have heard rental companies want 20-33 percent of gross rental.  Wyndham Extra Holidays wants 40 percent.  Since Ron primarily rents his own, I am assuming his expected profit margins would approximate these ranges.  I am assuming he does not keep buying timeshares to rent for maintance fees.



Addressed to Ron or others.  But still no response.  ???????


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## rrlongwell (Sep 13, 2012)

am1 said:


> Addressed to Ron or others.  But still no response.  ???????



*CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET ?*

If I were a cynic, I might think the profits come from upfront fees or similar other Timeshare Relief company type tactics.

I will be on first:

Phase I:  Asest aquision (this is where I am now).  Rental price free to near cost for family and friends to introduce timeshares  to them.
Phase II:  Explore and Test the market (am entering this phase now, looking for $6 dollars per thousand points to $8 dollar per thousand points.  My cost per thousand points
              is a little under $6 per thousand points with asests in Myrtle Beach (four locations), Atlantic City (1 contract), and Smokey Mountain (2 contracts).
Phase III:  Determine pricing policy I will use and identify which public rental sources will be used, if any.  May just stay on the private market with a multi-tier pricing system.

Bear in mind I work for free on behalf of a privetly held family LLC and am personally aborbing all red ink associated with this project.  Projected profits for the LLC and related entities are expected to be realized through capital apprication of the portifio as a whole and not any indivual or group of properties.  This is a multi-generational business plan.


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## ronparise (Sep 14, 2012)

am1 said:


> What do you feel is a good return on your costs?




I dont think too much about profit margin.  The idea is to keep the cash register ringing and make money on volume. buy more winners and sell the losers.   I learned a long time ago working for tips at a restaurant owned by JW Marriott, that a person can make a lot of money, a little bit at a time. My tips averaged about 20 cents each, but that summer job payed my way through college


And no, RR Im not making anything yet as a wanna be PCC. It seems that the only timeshare owners I know are TUG members and they arent willing to pay me to take out their trash. But I am available for that service.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 14, 2012)

It's no one's business how much Ron profits.  It's actually a rude question.  Ron needn't have answered.  

For two of us, our house is too big, and we have way too much storage space.  I need to condense stuff and have some empty cupboards.  I hear my friends talk about the nightmare of their folks dying or moving, and so it's very much on my mind.  

Yeah, the notebook would work well for the timeshare stuff.  I am in way over my head with timeshare and loving every minute, but I have a to do list every day.  For example, TCS is saying I never returned notarized documentation four months ago, and if I kept a log of some kind, writing it down somewhere, I would be able to say when I sent it back.  I am sure I did send it back because I do things as immediately as possible.


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## csxjohn (Sep 14, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> ...  I hear my friends talk about the nightmare of their folks dying or moving, and so it's very much on my mind...



This is very much on my mind lately after losing a 3 friends in one week.  So cleaning out the house and getting rid of some of my timeshares has become a priority.  I'm making progress on both fronts.

Then along comes Ron with his success stories and I wonder if I shouldn't just change the way I timeshare.

And then I come down here to Ron's state and have a wonderful time on the Atlantic coast and want to buy here.  I hope I can get home before I find one down here to buy.

Good luck on your cleaning out project and congratulations Ron for finding another good deal.


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## am1 (Sep 14, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> It's no one's business how much Ron profits.  It's actually a rude question.  Ron needn't have answered.



Relax, its just a question.  A % of costs is not giving away anything.


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## Cheryl20772 (Sep 14, 2012)

am1 said:


> Addressed to Ron or others.  But still no response.  ???????


Ron has mentioned several times in other threads how fortunate his discovery of renting has been.  The fact that he can specialize in very high demand dates at fortunate locations is what allows him to get high rents.  He said he covered all his annual expenses after only one rental at the beginning.  It does make a huge difference to now have to pay Extra Holidays their commission.  He's milking NOLA for all it's worth.  I'm sure there are other cities that are hiding such opportunities.


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## cruzad3r (Sep 14, 2012)

I just want to say that I love Cheryl and all of her responses; Even i don't know or have met her in person.


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 14, 2012)

Ron has been helpful to many TUG members, and I am so glad he found all of us.  I still think his profit is his business.  Don't give away all of your secrets, Ron.  Don't give away any of my secrets, either.


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## ronparise (Sep 14, 2012)

Cheryl20772;1359797 He's milking NOLA for all it's worth.  I'm sure there are other cities that are hiding such opportunities.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> not all, at least not yet, and Im always looking for those other opportunities...Any hints, anybody?


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## csxjohn (Sep 14, 2012)

Well Ron, it looks like escaped again.  I'm shutting the computer down and will be back on when we get to our next Ts in Beech Mountain NC.

I'm still studying those Wyndham plans but I don't think I have the nerve to take that plunge.

I was actually seeking units on Craig's List here in Daytona and the Keys but luckily I could not find a unit where I'm staying.  When I get away from here it won't be so tempting.  It's funny how tempting it is to take the plunge when you're enjoying the sun and surf.


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## Cheryl20772 (Sep 15, 2012)

ronparise said:


> not all, at least not yet, and Im always looking for those other opportunities...Any hints, anybody?



Only one I can think of right now is Fiesta in San Antonio. http://www.fiesta-sa.org/events/date/

They were getting ready for it when we stayed at LaCascade in April 2011 and the decorations were beautiful.  I don't have any idea what effect it has on lodging demand though.

(cruzad3r... I think you're nice too! :whoopie: )


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## ronandjoan (Sep 29, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> For two of us, our house is too big, and we have way too much storage space.  ......  the nightmare of their folks dying or moving, and so it's very much on my mind.
> 
> .



Yep!  After returning from my mother's house after she went into a home and helping to clean out my MIL's house, I went home with "New Eyes" and saw all our Stuff (aka junk?)    I didn't want  my kids to haveto go through all that....and since we were timesharing more and more anyway.....

It took us 2 years (of course, we were gone 8 months of both those years as we had been before too) to repair (the 1890 Victorian house) and downsize (all those rooms and an attic and large shed of Stuff), we made the plunge and sold the house and are now, as you know,   full timers, and into our 5th year.......

We had thought two years and we would know where we would want to settle down....nope!  not yet!

Our BLOG chronicles our experiences....


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