# Kauaii Diamond Resort now a Hilton - Not up to par



## TimeshareTraveller (Oct 4, 2022)

We're staying in the Resort at Poipu which is one of the Diamond to Hilton transfers, 2 BR, garden view.

We've been here about 9 hours, and I already want to leave --now. It's the Air Conditioning - there is none in the central living room that I can find and the bedrooms have these older room units that are set down to 60 degrees F right now and are blowing about 75 degrees F.  I can put up with a lot, but a stifling hotel room in lowland Hawaii is not on my "put-up" list.

The AC was the first problem. It's Hawaii so you put up with some bugs no matter if it is 1 star or 4 star. I found a winged ant-like insect (termite?) crawling on one of the beds in the second bedroom. I wonder about the door seals around the sliding glass door and main door into the room. We've sealed all food or put it in the refrigerator to make sure.

The cleanliness in here is very iffy. When we walked in, there is some sort of spotting on the floor that my spouse looked at and mildly said, "That looks like a murder happened by the table." I think it's mop water spots, and when it's later in the morning I'll try to deal with it.

And, if Hilton is serious about keeping this place then they not only have to deal with the AC units, but also a few luggage carts at every building would not be amiss. We hauled in all of the suitcases ourselves from the parking lot without one. This would not be a big deal but the buildings here are interconnected and the parking lot is a very long distance from the room itself and involves at least a football field length and one floor down from the parking lot entrance. The case of water that we never travel without was the piece that broke our backs. Really, this place needs luggage carts.

We're stuck here for the next 4 nights, I'm afraid. It's not the way to end the vacation that I'd hoped. We just came from a short stay in Honolulu at the Hilton Grand Waikikian. In contrast, this hotel is really not going to be up to an HGVC standard, maybe ever.


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 4, 2022)

I'd go to the office, explain the problem, and ask to be moved to a different room.

Dave


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 4, 2022)

To me, it's a beautiful place, but maybe it's gone downhill and Hilton needs to step things up a bit.  

The AC units are old, but they worked okay for nighttime sleeping.  I have only stayed there in cooler months, so AC wasn't really necessary.


----------



## Sandy VDH (Oct 4, 2022)

Is that location not flagged as HVC and NOT HGVC?  Therefore not up to HGVC standards.


----------



## TimeshareTraveller (Oct 4, 2022)

True, probably not HGVC but HVC. The problem is that we booked this room through the Hilton.com site using a good portion of our Hilton Hotel points that we've accrued over the years through business travel. It's 7:44 am Hawaii time and warm (75-80 degrees F) in here.  Once people are up and start stirring, I'm going to go to the front desk and have a discussion with them about the AC. The resort is supposedly completely booked up this week. (We're Diamond members, and usually if there is an upgrade available we can get it.) I'm ready to discuss this with Hilton and see if we can move to the Hilton Garden Inn down the road. 

Look, on the Big Island we stayed at the Wyndham Moana Loa Village right after staying at HGVC Kings Land for a few days. That was a very clean family condo, but not the luxury of the Kings Land, of course. It wasn't an issue at all.  I found it comfortable and charming. No serious bugs other than an occasional refugee from the outside when the door was left open while moving luggage in. 

This Resort at Poipu is really run down. It looks like there have been furniture changes made, and the linen stock here is admirable. I haven't seen the pool or grounds yet as we arrived after dark. But the AC issue and the cleanliness issue is a total deal breaker for me. 

We nearly bought at this resort back in 2002 when it was new. It was an Embassy resort then.  The chain of ownership is:
Embassy -> Sheraton -> Starwood (rebranded Sheraton) -> Something else -> Diamond -> Hilton
I loved the pool area and the resort was lovely then. This was a bit of a shock when we came in last night.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 4, 2022)

> We nearly bought at this resort back in 2002 when it was new. It was an Embassy resort then.



We were there in 2000 and attended the Embassy timeshare presentation.  The guy was so pushy, I wanted to slap him.  I don't remember it ever being Sheraton.  Maybe it was Sunterra, which was taken over by Diamond.


----------



## TimeshareTraveller (Oct 4, 2022)

I did forget to mention one of the most important parts of the Resort at Poipu cleanliness standards. The second bedroom has an extreme musty odor in it. So much so that my spouse is worried about allergies. I think it's from being shut up for a long time without the HVAC running, so mildew accrued.


----------



## TimeshareTraveller (Oct 4, 2022)

"We were there in 2000 and attended the Embassy timeshare presentation. The guy was so pushy, I wanted to slap him. I don't remember it ever being Sheraton. Maybe it was Sunterra, which was taken over by Diamond."

It was a Sheraton for a while. My brother owned a Sheraton resort and this was one of the resorts in their group. This resort and the one that was the Embassy at Kaanapali in Maui were both part of the Sheraton system at one point early in the 2000s. 

And yes, it was a pushy presentation. We were almost swayed by the pool area and did buy but rescinded within a day.


----------



## jrb916 (Oct 4, 2022)

We were there in March and the A/C worked well & was located in both bedrooms.  The ceiling fan in the living room along w/ keeping the balcony slider open a crack created a very nice environment for us.   We didn’t spend much time in the room, instead we did daily local adventures, went to poipu beach or the pool/hot tub area.

Highly recommend the buffet at the nearby Hyatt & tour the rum plantation.  Enjoy!


----------



## Emi (Oct 4, 2022)

Some units do have ac in the dining area depending on the layout of the unit. I believe the corner units with two sided glass sliding doors cannot accommodate an AC unit. The property is spread out and not every building is adjacent to the parking lot. The bell staff is very accommoddating and will take and pick up your luggage from your unit. My husband had a sprained knee on one of our trips and the bell took us and picked us up from our unit in a golf cart daily. Perhaps you are on ground floor if there is an insect problem. It is the garden isle and much more humid, unlike the dryness of the Big Island. Your best bet is to ask to be moved to another unit, perhaps on a higher floor and ac in dining area.

It is an older resort and has not have big funds to do extensive renovations like Hilton Resorts. There is a planned renovation starting next year and hopefully with dramatic upgrades.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Oct 4, 2022)

I wonder of P@P has similar maintenance policies to other Diamond properties i.e. owner units are well maintained and up-to-date. Trader units or lower level wing (Hilton Honors, RCI) are the non-renovated less desirable units? This is why we sometimes see two stories for the same Diamond properties (great/terrible).

IMHO...this was clearly cutting corners by Diamond. I hope HGV gets all units up to par. We have an RCI trade coming up next summer for P@P and hope we get a decent unit.


----------



## wilma (Oct 4, 2022)

They’ve been promising to renovate the units for years and have collected the funds to do it. The cupboards in the kitchen are grimy and one fell off when I opened it. The tiles are broken and carpet was dirty and stained. Great views and grounds but the units are way overdue for a refurb. Who knows what diamond did with all the maintenance fees.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Oct 4, 2022)

Emi said:


> It is an older resort and has not have big funds to do extensive renovations like Hilton Resorts. There is a planned renovation starting next year and hopefully with dramatic upgrades.



When are the renovations planned? Hopefully before mid-May.


----------



## JIMinNC (Oct 4, 2022)

TimeshareTraveller said:


> "We were there in 2000 and attended the Embassy timeshare presentation. The guy was so pushy, I wanted to slap him. I don't remember it ever being Sheraton. Maybe it was Sunterra, which was taken over by Diamond."
> 
> It was a Sheraton for a while. My brother owned a Sheraton resort and this was one of the resorts in their group. This resort and the one that was the Embassy at Kaanapali in Maui were both part of the Sheraton system at one point early in the 2000s.



That is not correct. We owned at the old Embassy Maui for 16 years from 1998 through 2014. The ownership of Embassy Maui and Embassy Kauai have always been by the same company, and neither have ever carried a Sheraton flag. There were a couple other Embassy Resorts that became Sheratons in the early 2000s, but not Kauai or Maui.

Sunterra originally developed both the Embassy Vacation Resort Kauai and the Embassy Vacation Resort Maui under a license from Promus Corp., who was the operator of the Embassy Suites/Embassy Vacation Resort (EVR) brands. When Hilton Hotels bought Promus back in the early 2000s, they kept the Embassy Suites hotels as part of Hilton but opted to sunset the entire Embassy Vacation Resort brand. As a result, both EVR Kauai and EVR Maui (as well as Sunterra-managed EVR resorts in Lake Tahoe and Orlando) were rebranded as part of Club Sunterra. Sunterra eventually became part of Diamond when Diamond acquired Sunterra. There were two other Embassy Vacation Resort licensees - EVR Scottsdale and EVR Myrtle Beach - that were developed and managed for EVR by Vistana back when Vistana was an independent company. Those two resorts - Scottsdale and Myrtle - did become Sheratons after Starwood Corp bought Vistana and created the Sheraton Vacation Club branding. Those Sheraton flags have remained at those two through Starwood's transition to ILG and now as a part of Marriott Vacations Worldwide.

As an aside, I once had a meeting at EVR Maui with one of the senior resort management executives from Sunterra Hawaii. I found out that after Hilton Hotels bought Promus/Embassy Suites, HGVC had very serious discussions with Sunterra about acquiring the Embassy Maui and doing a major upgrade to bring it up to full HGVC standards. The terms were all agreed to and financing was being finalized, but unfortunately, the dot com bust and 9/11 happened, so the ensuing recession killed the deal before it closed. Things have now come full circle and HGV now controls the old Embassy Maui.


----------



## dayooper (Oct 4, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> As an aside, I once had a meeting at EVR Maui with one of the senior resort management executives from Sunterra Hawaii. I found out that after Hilton Hotels bought Promus/Embassy Suites, HGVC had very serious discussions with Sunterra about acquiring the Embassy Maui and doing a major upgrade to bring it up to full HGVC standards. The terms were all agreed to and financing was being finalized, but unfortunately, the dot com bust and 9/11 happened, so the ensuing recession killed the deal before it closed. *Things have now come full circle and HGV now controls the old Embassy Maui.*



Except that is would be on the HGVC side of Max instead of the HVC side.


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 4, 2022)

I wonder if the P@P location has fully recovered from the cost of the seawall and beach erosion repairs, and if that contributed to the sale to Hilton? Are the missing upgrade funds somehow lost in the mix?

A number of years ago, the Kauai Bach Villas timeshare in Lihue collected a massive amount of extra money from owners to pay for upgrades to the property.  Through what I still think were underhanded backroom deals, Wyndham sucked away the funds, and used them to pay for the Bali Hai in Princeville instead.  KBV ended up with a shadow of its planned improvements and upgrades, while Bali Hai got the full Wyndham treatment.  KBV has never really been the same, and now is going through some tremendous issues.  I think if they had managed the place as intended all along, whether it would be in as bad a condition as it is.

So then I wonder if P@P has had similar problems, where funds were "reallocated" to other things, and what is there now is the best they could do with the leftovers?

Dave


----------



## Dollie (Oct 5, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I wonder if the P@P location has fully recovered from the cost of the seawall and beach erosion repairs, and if that contributed to the sale to Hilton? Are the missing upgrade funds somehow lost in the mix?



P@P has no beach and no seawall.  Are you thinking of Kaanapali Beach Club on Maui?

Air conditioning - we never use the air conditioning; we prefer to open the windows and use the ceiling fans.

Updating the suites - major update was planned:  replacement of the kitchens; almost all new furniture; painting and carpets, floors; new bathrooms including major changes to the master shower and tub arrangement.  But then COVID hit and put a hold on this.  Renovations are still planned.  They will take time.  They will close off a column of units at a time (ground, 2nd, 3rd, 4th floors, one on top of the other) so they will not be disturbing the suites above or below as they work.  They will work a building at a time.

I don't know what "Hilton standards" are.  I have always been pleased with the P@P standards.  I hope they don't turn it into a resort-sy/country club type of place.  I didn't buy it for that.  I bought it for its beautiful location and comfortable accommodations.


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 5, 2022)

Dollie said:


> P@P has no beach and no seawall.  Are you thinking of Kaanapali Beach Club on Maui?



I could easily be mistaken, and probably am.  But wasn't there a big Special Assessment at this resort a few years ago to repair damage to the structure closest to the ocean?  My recollection was that it was at this resort, and was several thousand dollars per interval owned. There was quite a dustup on Tug about it.  I may be thinking of somewhere else nearby.  If I'm incorrect, disregard my comment.

Now I'm curious about which resort that was...

EDIT:  A little TUG searching brought up this result.  There are other pages, but apparently it was P@P, about ten years ago: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/pt-at-poipu-special-assesment.156633/#post-1184139

Dave


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 5, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I could easily be mistaken, and probably am.  But wasn't there big Special Assessment at this resort a few years ago to repair damage to the structure closest to the ocean?  My recollection was that it was at this resort, and was several thousand dollars per interval owned. There was quite a dustup on Tug about it.  I may be thinking of somewhere else nearby.  If I'm incorrect, disregard my comment.
> 
> Now I'm curious about which resort that was...
> 
> Dave


You are right, Dave.  Diamond allowed people to either get out of their ownership or pay $4,000 or more for a SA for water intrusion.  Many TUGgers posted about it.


----------



## JIMinNC (Oct 5, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I could easily be mistaken, and probably am.  But wasn't there a big Special Assessment at this resort a few years ago to repair damage to the structure closest to the ocean?  My recollection was that it was at this resort, and was several thousand dollars per interval owned. There was quite a dustup on Tug about it.  I may be thinking of somewhere else nearby.  If I'm incorrect, disregard my comment.
> 
> Now I'm curious about which resort that was...
> 
> ...





rickandcindy23 said:


> You are right, Dave.  Diamond allowed people to either get out of their ownership or pay $4,000 or more for a SA for water intrusion.  Many TUGgers posted about it.



Yes, there was a P@P special assessment as you have discovered, but it was not about a beach or seawall, it was about moisture/water intrusion into the building structures.


----------



## Talent312 (Oct 5, 2022)

This makes me want to buy into Max... not.
.


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 5, 2022)

JIMinNC said:


> Yes, there was a P@P special assessment as you have discovered, but it was not about a beach or seawall, it was about moisture/water intrusion into the building structures.



Thanks, Jim.  I knew it was something to do with water eroding things. I was thinking it was ocean-related.

The larger question still applies though:  Did the money received for these repairs get reallocated for something else, resulting in unimproved units within the resort?  OP describes a unit that is worn and needs to be upgraded.  I would have expected it would have been done prior to Hilton accepting reservations.

Dave


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Oct 5, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Thanks, Jim.  I knew it was something to do with water eroding things. I was thinking it was ocean-related.
> 
> The larger question still applies though:  Did the money received for these repairs get reallocated for something else, resulting in unimproved units within the resort?  OP describes a unit that is worn and needs to be upgraded.  I would have expected it would have been done prior to Hilton accepting reservations.
> 
> Dave


I don't know because we stayed in a unit right after that SA and it was gorgeous, clean, everything was new, and the carpets had just been cleaned.


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 5, 2022)

Its quite possible that not all of the units "required repairs" as part of the special assessment..   In any event it definitely sounds like a disappointing experience..


----------



## pedro47 (Oct 5, 2022)

I would put your concerns in writing to the resort managerand to someone in upper management with Hilton Vacation Club.
Good Luck


----------



## TimeshareTraveller (Oct 5, 2022)

Update on the Maintenance Woes in Resort at Poipu:
Yesterday morning, 12 hours after arriving to the unit with poor Air Conditioning and the musty floor in the room with the broken AC, the front desk moved us to a new unit. We moved house, set up, and checked it out.  The AC was working well -both units in the bedrooms pumped cold air.

Well, we had to call maintenance back on the new unit to deal with:
1. The sliding door lock was broken and would not stay locked. We're ground floor, so that had to be fixed.
2. The toilet was running constantly, so the flapper had to be replaced.
3. The washing machine spin cycle sounded like someone was pounding to get out (loose belt).

They fixed everything yesterday, but by the time we could decently leave and get out to Barking Sands MWR office (military tickets), we lost our possibility for the luau we wanted (they had filled it that morning probably while we were running the stupid maintenance issues). The sliding glass door involved the rollers underneath and required three men to remove the door and replace it (300 lb door)

This morning (day 2), we had to call Maintenance in yet again because the dishwasher just stopped on our second load in it. It was a fuse blown. The fuse was replaced, but the maintenance guy casually mentioned that there are no more fuses of that type in his office. They're on order. But it's Hawaii, so ...someday my fuse will come.

The pool area is lovely and wonderful. The grounds are beautiful. The maintenance issues are nightmarish. We've seen the maintenance guy so often that he's on our Christmas Card list now.

I think that the visitors here do not actually cook or do laundry in the units. We are because the food costs in the restaurants would blow our food budget up if we weren't cooking in.


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 5, 2022)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Its quite possible that not all of the units "required repairs" as part of the special assessment..   In any event it definitely sounds like a disappointing experience..



I agree - not at all what one would expect under the circumstances.

Dave


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 5, 2022)

TimeshareTraveller said:


> Update on the Maintenance Woes in Resort at Poipu:
> Yesterday morning, 12 hours after arriving to the unit with poor Air Conditioning and the musty floor in the room with the broken AC, the front desk moved us to a new unit. We moved house, set up, and checked it out.  The AC was working well -both units in the bedrooms pumped cold air.
> 
> Well, we had to call maintenance back on the new unit to deal with:
> ...



Glad you got things sorted out, and moved to a new unit, new maintenance issues notwithstanding.

Any chance to get a different luau day while you're there?  The drive to Barking Sands is far enough to not have to deal with that twice. Been there, done that.

Dave


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Oct 5, 2022)

TimeshareTraveller said:


> Update on the Maintenance Woes in Resort at Poipu:
> Yesterday morning, 12 hours after arriving to the unit with poor Air Conditioning and the musty floor in the room with the broken AC, the front desk moved us to a new unit. We moved house, set up, and checked it out.  The AC was working well -both units in the bedrooms pumped cold air.
> 
> Well, we had to call maintenance back on the new unit to deal with:
> ...



Sorry to hear about your issues. Please report these issues to HGV corporate. When they do their inspections they probably do not see these types of issues. You certainly should not have to explain why you eat in the unit and need to do laundry. And the guest should not be the one finding these issues. You are paying handsomely for these services and these are game stakes for an enjoyable stay. Enjoy Kauai.


----------



## singlemalt_18 (Oct 5, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Thanks, Jim.  I knew it was something to do with water eroding things. I was thinking it was ocean-related.
> 
> The larger question still applies though:  Did the money received for these repairs get reallocated for something else, resulting in unimproved units within the resort?  OP describes a unit that is worn and needs to be upgraded.  I would have expected it would have been done prior to Hilton accepting reservations.



The "water intrusion" SA was in 2011. The issue (as I remember) was due to a lack of integrity that was discovered to the vapor barrier construction that affected all units. This deficiency over time, allowed moisture from the ocean air, as well as the salt, to permeate the buildings causing internal water and mold damage, as well as corrosion from salt. The entire resort required remediation and repair that was extensive and down to the studs. When we were there in fall of 2015, the last of all units were cordoned off and sealed, undergoing the necessary repairs. To assume monies were misappropriated is nonsense.

Our unit was pristine. In fact, every unit had a shoe "tray" just inside the entry, with a sign asking to remove shoes upon entry. Some of this current discontent seems more likely a function of Apollo Group and the pandemic disruption periods of vacancy; the state of Hawaii chose to be rather heavy handed. That is why we cancelled our 2 week 2020 reservation in celebration of our 25th anniversary.

Interestingly, and much to the chagrin of "deed only" folks, the benefits of trust ownership was front and center. The average trust owner of a "week" in the Hawaii Collection was assessed appx $3,600 in addition to the annual MF. Meanwhile, deeded week owners were hit with something double that.

BTW - long time Hawaii owner who bought under Embassy, converted to points in 2010 under Diamond, and newly migrated to HVC Max with no regrets despite all the naysaying found in these threads.


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 5, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> The "water intrusion" SA was in 2011. The issue (as I remember) was due to a lack of integrity that was discovered to the vapor barrier construction that affected all units. This deficiency over time, allowed moisture from the ocean air, as well as the salt, to permeate the buildings causing internal water and mold damage, as well as corrosion from salt. The entire resort required remediation and repair that was extensive and down to the studs. When we were there in fall of 2015, the last of all units were cordoned off and sealed, undergoing the necessary repairs. To assume monies were misappropriated is nonsense.
> 
> Our unit was pristine. In fact, every unit had a shoe "tray" just inside the entry, with a sign asking to remove shoes upon entry. Some of this current discontent seems more likely a function of Apollo Group and the pandemic disruption periods of vacancy; the state of Hawaii chose to be rather heavy handed. That is why we cancelled our 2 week 2020 reservation in celebration of our 25th anniversary.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your clarifying explanation.  My question about funds possibly being reallocated as a way to explain units that were not upgraded is hardly nonsense.  It has happened in other resorts.  If it didn't happen at P@P, then the simple answer is No. If that unit was upgraded, and is in the condition OP is reporting, then it sounds like it may be time to do it again. OP says they were moved to a unit in generally better condition, but there are maintenance issues in the new unit, too.  So at this point, I don't know what the proper answer would be, other than to say that all in, it sounds like maybe P@P isn't yet truly ready for occupants under the Hilton brand. 

Dave


----------



## pedro47 (Oct 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues. Please report these issues to HGV corporate. When they do their inspections they probably do not see these types of issues. You certainly should not have to explain why you eat in the unit and need to do laundry. And the guest should not be the one finding these issues. You are paying handsomely for these services and these are game stakes for an enjoyable stay. Enjoy Kauai.


What is HGV corporate address Thanks


----------



## singlemalt_18 (Oct 5, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> ...all in, it sounds like maybe P@P isn't yet truly ready for occupants under the Hilton brand.



That may be true, but not many today realistically buy a property expecting zero work is required. I did not mean anything directly with the "nonsense" description; you were not the first to begin that supposition. It seemed as if that was where this thread was quickly heading... conspiracy and malfeasance.

As for P@P, it is a remarkable destination at a truly, globally unique location. From the navigation marker just off property at the point, sunrises and sunsets are both on water.


----------



## artringwald (Oct 5, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> Interestingly, and much to the chagrin of "deed only" folks, the benefits of trust ownership was front and center. The average trust owner of a "week" in the Hawaii Collection was assessed appx $3,600 in addition to the annual MF. Meanwhile, deeded week owners were hit with something double that.


We've been deeded owners since 2004, and have never regretted it. The water intrusion problem was tough, but the deeded week maintenance fees are about 50% less that what you'd pay for the 15,500 Diamond points it takes to book a 2 bedroom oceanfront. We do have to book a year in advance, but we've always been able to get oceanfront.

When they did the water intrusion repairs, they did some good updates to the units, but they kept the original kitchens and bathrooms. Upgrades for those were planned to start about the same time the pandemic hit. They've been delayed even more by the Hilton acquisition. It will take time to do all the units because they don't want to reduce the number of units available. We did get a look at the one unit they remodeled as a trial, and it was a huge improvement.

We've found that due to the excellent management of the property, any complaints or maintenance issues have been handled quickly. Prior to COVID, the property manager would hold weekly meetings. She was very receptive to suggestions and very transparent about planned improvements. I hope those meetings will resume sometime in the future. The staff is treated fairly and there's little turnover. It's nice to see the same smiling faces year after year. When we arrive, it feels like we're coming home. Since we normally go in the winter, we don't often need the AC, but when it gets hot and humid, we have to run all 3 ceiling fans and both bedroom AC units to keep the living room and kitchen cool.

I've been retired for 14 years, so we've had time to visit many other vacation destinations. The Point at Poipu may have it's flaws, but it remains our favorite by far. While you're there, look for the small blowhole to the east of the light beacon. On the west of the light beacon, you'll find a sea arch. Whale season is just starting, and the light beacon is a good place to sit to spot them. In front of building 8 is a small cove that always has sea turtles. Hopefully, the activities center will soon resume the resort walks to point out the wide variety of flowers and vegetation on the property. Here's some of the pictures I took last time I took a the resort walk.









						Point at Poipu Resort Walk - Art & Jo Ringwald
					

Every Wednesday, the resort offers a guided walk with a local expert named Aloha.




					artringwald.smugmug.com
				




Here's some more pictures of the property.









						The Point at Poipu - Art & Jo Ringwald
					

Our favorite pictures from several stays at The Point at Poipu




					artringwald.smugmug.com


----------



## slip (Oct 5, 2022)

artringwald said:


> We've been deeded owners since 2004, and have never regretted it. The water intrusion problem was tough, but the deeded week maintenance fees are about 50% less that what you'd pay for the 15,500 Diamond points it takes to book a 2 bedroom oceanfront. We do have to book a year in advance, but we've always been able to get oceanfront.
> 
> When they did the water intrusion repairs, they did some good updates to the units, but they kept the original kitchens and bathrooms. Upgrades for those were planned to start about the same time the pandemic hit. They've been delayed even more by the Hilton acquisition. It will take time to do all the units because they don't want to reduce the number of units available. We did get a look at the one unit they remodeled as a trial, and it was a huge improvement.
> 
> ...



You know it's good when you feel like tou are returning home.


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 5, 2022)

singlemalt_18 said:


> That may be true, but not many today realistically buy a property expecting zero work is required. I did not mean anything directly with the "nonsense" description; you were not the first to begin that supposition. It seemed as if that was where this thread was quickly heading... conspiracy and malfeasance.
> 
> As for P@P, it is a remarkable destination at a truly, globally unique location. From the navigation marker just off property at the point, sunrises and sunsets are both on water.



I wasn't rendering a supposition.  I was wondering if maybe that was a reason why OP found their unit lacking.  I've never stayed at P@P, but from all reports I've ever heard, it's a pretty nice place.  But it's curious why there would be so many issues in one unit, if it had been upgraded after the SA happened.

No harm, no foul.  It was just my curiosity.

Dave


----------



## artringwald (Oct 6, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I wasn't rendering a supposition.  I was wondering if maybe that was a reason why OP found their unit lacking.  I've never stayed at P@P, but from all reports I've ever heard, it's a pretty nice place.  But it's curious why there would be so many issues in one unit, if it had been upgraded after the SA happened.
> 
> No harm, no foul.  It was just my curiosity.
> 
> Dave


There's no beach. The waves crash on the rocks. (I love watching the waves crash on the rocks.) The salt mist blows into the air and tends to corrode things in its path. Doors, light fixtures, electronics, etc. The buildings closest to the ocean, like 6, 7, 8, 9 probably need the most maintenance. We've stayed there about 20 times. The only time I remember having to call maintenance was when the garbage disposal broke. We called at 4 PM, and they had a new one installed by 6 PM. When we found a cockroach one year, they arranged a time the next day when we'd be gone for several hours so they could spray. In any tropical climate, it's good to keep the food sealed and to empty the kitchen trash each night.

I can't explain why all those things happened in one unit. It's been several years since they finished the water intrusion repairs. They did one building at a time. The contractor that built the resort didn't use the proper materials for an ocean front property. They had to strip off the stucco and the roof tiles, and installed salt water durable materials. New windows, doors, AC units, carpeting, furniture, and kitchen appliances were installed at the same time. The budget didn't include remodeling the kitchen and bathrooms.


----------



## BJRSanDiego (Oct 6, 2022)

Someone else commented that maybe the exchangers get a lower quality unit or "hanger queen".  
We stayed at P@P several years ago and had multiple problems with the first unit:  one 1/2 bath had no light and the room smelled like sewage (when I smelled by the light switch it really stunk -- perhaps part of the water intrusion problem).  The other bathroom lacked a working "wax closet seal" (that's the thing that keeps the water and solids from the toilet from leaking all over the floor).  We'll when the toilet was flushed, about 2 cups of liquid would ooze out from unit the toilet and across the floor.  I noticed that the tile floor in that bath hadn't been mopped because I could see a coffee ring on the floor next to the toilet in an area where the ooze didn't hit.  So - - we made a big stink and after 3 hours of arguing, and waiting, they finally moved us.  The second unit had either 1 or 2 AC units that were non-functional.  After a few hours they were replaced.  Then the light in the kitchen was inoperative and apparently "rusted out".  The fixture had to be replaced.  There was sand on the floor in the unit and the fridge was dirty inside.  When everything was finally finished we went down to the pool to get a burger and beer.  But because of a sting related to selling alcohol to a minor the pool bar was closed.  It was 8 or 9 at night.  So, we lost an entire day.

So, maybe the external exchangers get one quality of room and owners get a higher tier.  But that is just a guess based on my own experience.  I would think that if either the housekeepers would make note of stuff that wasn't working or if engineering would do a brief monthly inspection of units while they were being cleaned that they could have caught these things.   

I think that the P@P has high potential and is in a beautiful location.  We were just unfortunate people who had a poor experience.


----------



## artringwald (Oct 6, 2022)

BJRSanDiego said:


> Someone else commented that maybe the exchangers get a lower quality unit or "hanger queen".
> We stayed at P@P several years ago and had multiple problems with the first unit:  one 1/2 bath had no light and the room smelled like sewage (when I smelled by the light switch it really stunk -- perhaps part of the water intrusion problem).  The other bathroom lacked a working "wax closet seal" (that's the thing that keeps the water and solids from the toilet from leaking all over the floor).  We'll when the toilet was flushed, about 2 cups of liquid would ooze out from unit the toilet and across the floor.  I noticed that the tile floor in that bath hadn't been mopped because I could see a coffee ring on the floor next to the toilet in an area where the ooze didn't hit.  So - - we made a big stink and after 3 hours of arguing, and waiting, they finally moved us.  The second unit had either 1 or 2 AC units that were non-functional.  After a few hours they were replaced.  Then the light in the kitchen was inoperative and apparently "rusted out".  The fixture had to be replaced.  There was sand on the floor in the unit and the fridge was dirty inside.  When everything was finally finished we went down to the pool to get a burger and beer.  But because of a sting related to selling alcohol to a minor the pool bar was closed.  It was 8 or 9 at night.  So, we lost an entire day.
> 
> So, maybe the external exchangers get one quality of room and owners get a higher tier.  But that is just a guess based on my own experience.  I would think that if either the housekeepers would make note of stuff that wasn't working or if engineering would do a brief monthly inspection of units while they were being cleaned that they could have caught these things.
> ...


There's no excuse for a room being dirty. Sorry to hear that. The pool bar has always closed at 8 PM, I'm pretty sure the exchangers get the least desirable units. All the units have reasonably nice views, except for the 4 that have lanais facing the entrance. There are 4 view categories, garden, partial ocean view, ocean view, and oceanfront. When people come with children, they try to put them on ground level units because there's not much sound insulation between floors (a common complaint).


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Oct 6, 2022)

BJRSanDiego said:


> Someone else commented that maybe the exchangers get a lower quality unit or "hanger queen".
> We stayed at P@P several years ago and had multiple problems with the first unit:  one 1/2 bath had no light and the room smelled like sewage (when I smelled by the light switch it really stunk -- perhaps part of the water intrusion problem).  The other bathroom lacked a working "wax closet seal" (that's the thing that keeps the water and solids from the toilet from leaking all over the floor).  We'll when the toilet was flushed, about 2 cups of liquid would ooze out from unit the toilet and across the floor.  I noticed that the tile floor in that bath hadn't been mopped because I could see a coffee ring on the floor next to the toilet in an area where the ooze didn't hit.  So - - we made a big stink and after 3 hours of arguing, and waiting, they finally moved us.  The second unit had either 1 or 2 AC units that were non-functional.  After a few hours they were replaced.  Then the light in the kitchen was inoperative and apparently "rusted out".  The fixture had to be replaced.  There was sand on the floor in the unit and the fridge was dirty inside.  When everything was finally finished we went down to the pool to get a burger and beer.  But because of a sting related to selling alcohol to a minor the pool bar was closed.  It was 8 or 9 at night.  So, we lost an entire day.
> 
> So, maybe the external exchangers get one quality of room and owners get a higher tier.  But that is just a guess based on my own experience.  I would think that if either the housekeepers would make note of stuff that wasn't working or if engineering would do a brief monthly inspection of units while they were being cleaned that they could have caught these things.
> ...



Uh-oh I am stunned by this as we have an RCI exchange next year into P@P. Although we've been allocated less desirable placements by HGVC as an RCI exchanger eg parking view, the rooms have not had cleanliness or major maintenance issues.

FWIW...I am going to call in advance and have them add to our res. that we are HGVC Elite members. I do not expect priority over owners, but might get a functioning, clean unit (is that too much to ask?) I hope HGV brings all rooms up to par.


----------



## klpca (Oct 6, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Uh-oh I am stunned by this as we have an RCI exchange next year into P@P. Although we've been allocated less desirable placements by HGVC as an RCI exchanger eg parking view, the rooms have not had cleanliness or major maintenance issues.
> 
> FWIW...I am going to call in advance and have them add to our res. that we are HGVC Elite members. I do not expect priority over owners, but might get a functioning, clean unit (is that too much to ask?) I hope HGV brings all rooms up to par.


We had a recent exchange into a less than acceptable unit (not P@P) on our Glacier/Yellowstone trip. I provided a TUG review. In a conversation with another tugger they had received the *exact* same unit a couple of months prior. We figured it was because we were exchanging in. There is no way that an owner would put up with that unit. There was a ton of deferred maintenance. All of the nice reviews on TUG were from happy owners. I understand and am not unhappy that we received a "lesser" unit, but things like filthy walls and a filthy bath tub (old adhesive residue on the bottom) are unacceptable for anyone staying there.  I noticed that a recent review mentioned upgrades that were not in the unit where we stayed. I would not be surprised to learn that certain units are reserved for exchangers and are the last to be fixed up. 

My husband's favorite thing about timesharing is calling maintenance because they come right away and don't leave a bill. We almost always have to call about something. At one place the dishwasher was not secured to anything, so that when you opened the door the whole unit tipped forward (DSVII). If no one reports this no one knows to fix it, so be like my husband and have maintenance on speed dial. We usually don't stay while they are there, unless it is the evening.

It sounds like P@P is at that stage when everything is reaching the end of its useful life, and of course since it was all completed at the same time, it's wearing out at the same time. It is a bummer for those who are staying in the oldest units. Glad to hear that a refurbishment is on the calendar.


----------



## SeattleAl (Oct 9, 2022)

I just got back from a week in the 3 Bedroom Presidential Suite at P@P. This is unquestionably the best room in the place as it is on the top floor of Building 6 and in the corner facing the ocean on two sides.  I had a lot of DRI points to use or lose by the end of the year, and I came across this in the Reservation Calendar. It was 39000 points so I grabbed it.

After a few days, I noticed that the eaves on the roof were seriously worn and in need of refurbishment or replacement. This is building right on the ocean so it probably gets more weather wear than some other buildings.  The second bedroom does have a musty smell, but I never went in there if I didn't have to. The kitchen cabinets smell woody inside them, so they are probably in need of replacement. The master bedroom is huge, and has a huge master bathroom with a large spa-like bathtub.  It took a long time to get hot water in the master bathroom so I opened up both of the sink faucets for a few minutes to get to the hot water. The sound on the living room TV crapped out one night and I called them to fix it the next day. They just swapped it out with another TV.

I was working remotely from there and noticed during an early morning remote meeting that the ocean facing view from the living room faces east and has an uninterrupted view of the sunrise over the ocean.

I agree that Hilton has its work cut out for it to get this truly up to what we expect from Hilton standards, but there are also rooms that are truly extraordinary. (Hint- get one of the upper level ocean facing corner rooms in Buildings 3, 4, or 6). I'm a Gold Level Diamond member so I can request one of these in my reservation. I don't think you can't get these as an exchanger.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 9, 2022)

Incoming exchangers can get be assigned any rooom in any view category, though I think it is most likely that they will receive partial ocean view.  The way the reservation system works at Poipu is as follows. 

First, bear in mind that every unit has an assigned view category, and reservations by owners and Club Members are made based on view category. So when an owner or Club member checks availability on a given check in day, a particular view category is shown only when there is a unit in that view category for that check-in day.
When a week is deposited with an exchange company, no particular view category is assigned to the week.  The reservation system, however, notes that a generic week needs to be retained for that exchange.
The system will stop taking reservations for a one-week stay in ALL view categories for a given check-in day when the number of available one-week stays across all view categories matches the number of incoming exchanges for that check-in day.
When the system stops taking reservation per #3, the unassigned weeks could be in any view category - it will simply be the weeks in whatever view category have not been booked by owners or Club members at the time at the time one-week reservations shut down for that check-in day.  Hence, exchangers could wind up in any view category.
As I mentioned, I think exchangers are most likely to receive partial ocean view.  That's because the highest demand units are Ocean Front, Garden View, Ocean View, and Partial Ocean View, in about that order.  That is based on what view categories show up for me when I'm doing searches less then 10 months in high demand times.

Garden view is second most popular because it requires the fewest points.  There are many Club members outside the Hawaii Collection who want to exchange into Hawaii, but don't have a lot of points to burn.  So when the 10-month home resort advantage period ends, those Garden View units disappear. along with the Ocean Front Units and Ocean View Units.

That leaves the partial Ocean View as the view category most likely to be unreserved when the system stops taking owner reservations for those days.

I would add that it never hurts to put in a request a higher view category.  If the note is in your record, and a unit is available, you just might get what you ask for.


----------



## artringwald (Oct 9, 2022)

We like the oceanfront units at P@P in building 8. They also face east so almost every day in has amazing sunrise, and always different. Here' just a couple of them from last February.












Building 8 is also good for watching the moonrise.





From the top floors of building 8 you can watch the turtles in the turtle cove too.


----------



## jacknsara (Oct 9, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> I wonder if the P@P location has fully recovered from the cost of the seawall and beach erosion repairs, and if that contributed to the sale to Hilton? Are the missing upgrade funds somehow lost in the mix?
> 
> A number of years ago, the Kauai Bach Villas timeshare in Lihue collected a massive amount of extra money from owners to pay for upgrades to the property.  Through what I still think were underhanded backroom deals, Wyndham sucked away the funds, and used them to pay for the Bali Hai in Princeville instead.  KBV ended up with a shadow of its planned improvements and upgrades, while Bali Hai got the full Wyndham treatment.  KBV has never really been the same, and now is going through some tremendous issues.  I think if they had managed the place as intended all along, whether it would be in as bad a condition as it is.
> 
> ...


Aloha Dave,
We've had this conversation before.








						Wyndham. No longer. In charge [Pahio Resorts going to Grand Pacific?]
					

Grand pacfic. Take over  Thanks, Dave for clarifying.  -ryan  I have ask different. People in the office why the. Board wanted. The. Grand. Pacfic. To take over,  no one. Had any answers.




					tugbbs.com
				



Jack


----------



## youppi (Oct 9, 2022)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Incoming exchangers can get be assigned any rooom in any view category, though I think it is most likely that they will receive partial ocean view.  The way the reservation system works at Poipu is as follows.
> 
> First, bear in mind that every unit has an assigned view category, and reservations by owners and Club Members are made based on view category. So when an owner or Club member checks availability on a given check in day, a particular view category is shown only when there is a unit in that view category for that check-in day.
> When a week is deposited with an exchange company, no particular view category is assigned to the week.  The reservation system, however, notes that a generic week needs to be retained for that exchange.
> ...


Silver members & up can get a free accommodation upgrade when requested within 72 hrs of arrival date. So, this could also reduce the availability of best views to exchangers if rooms assignment to exchangers is done at the last minute.


----------



## DaveNV (Oct 9, 2022)

jacknsara said:


> Aloha Dave,
> We've had this conversation before.
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Jack.  I do remember the discussion.  But I must not have convinced myself that there still wasn't some kind of shenanigans going on, because whenever I think of the great plans the Front Office was touting for the KBV pool about 2007 or 2008, and then the backpedaling when the first pool remodel was so much less than they'd bragged about, and then the second pool remodel a few years later that was needed to make it better - it just all seemed really fishy.  All of it makes me wonder whether the current situation with conditions at KBV is related to a lack of proper management over time. 

Full disclosure:  I sold my ownership there right about the time Grand Pacific took over, before Wyndham cheated owners to force GP out to take over the management again.  More shenanigans.  I've watched from a distance, but hoped all would work itself out.

It's such a great location.  I really hope things can be fixed, and let everyone go back to enjoying being there.

Dave


----------



## echino (Oct 9, 2022)

When I exchanged into Point at Poipu via II, I was informed at check in that my reservation is for Oceanfront, and that's what I actually got. Not that they could assign any unit, and just happen to assignan Oceanfront, but that the Oceanfront was actually in the reservation.


----------



## Harry (Oct 10, 2022)

We were there in February. There was considerable work going on. I was informed that this was all a short and long term Hilton upgrade project. No question a beautiful resort. Actually went to a sales presentation with Embassy after they acquired it.


----------



## Redrambo1978 (Dec 4, 2022)

Just stayed there ourselves and agree the rooms need some tlc. Definitely not worth the price paying the nightly hilton rate.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Dec 4, 2022)

Redrambo1978 said:


> Just stayed there ourselves and agree the rooms need some tlc. Definitely not worth the price paying the nightly hilton rate.


Thank you for sharing your feedback. We have a trip planned early summer via RCI exchange. 

Could you share how you booked the room and what type of room? For example was it a DRI Club, DeX, Max or RCI reservation?


----------



## Redrambo1978 (Dec 10, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thank you for sharing your feedback. We have a trip planned early summer via RCI exchange.
> 
> Could you share how you booked the room and what type of room? For example was it a DRI Club, DeX, Max or RCI reservation?


We were already in Kauia and just stayed there one night. We were really just checking to see if it was a nice place that we would be interested in coming back to. We booked on the Hilton app because we couldn't book through hgvmax. We had an ocean view 2 bedroom corner unit. Nice location but the rooms just aren't worth the price paid. Definitely not up to hgvc standards. Yes we would return, but would not spend the cash or a lot of points to stay there.


----------



## Nowaker (Dec 10, 2022)

Sandy VDH said:


> Is that location not flagged as HVC and NOT HGVC? Therefore not up to HGVC standards.



We got used to HGVC standards, which are very high ones.

However, a lower HVC must adhere to Hilton brand standards. And I don't think what was described adheres to these standards. OP should report it to Hilton Corp, so the pressure comes from Hilton as that's the only real way to make HGVCorp listen and do something about these issues.


----------

