# Ex-Wyndham salesperson awarded 20million in lawsuit for exposing dirty sales tactics



## TUGBrian (Nov 18, 2016)

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Fired-Wyndham-timeshare-fraud-whistleblower-gets-10623793.php


----------



## am1 (Nov 18, 2016)

Great news.  She deserves the money and I am sure coming forward can be difficult but did she not know about any of this in the 3 years working in Virginia?  

Who will end up paying for all of this?


----------



## BigRedNole (Nov 19, 2016)

This is why I hate timeshares. For educated people that know what they are getting into, can afford it, and make a little money on the side, it is great. I went to a timeshare "survey" this past summer. Turns out a "survey" is a sales pitch. Loaded with my last 5 rental agreements just in case, we went. Sure enough, a survey is a sales pitch. It was my wife and I along with 6 other low income families. They got them hook, line, and sinker. 

We make a very decent middle class income. These others were definitely on the upper lower class or lower middle class. My guess is less than $50k a year in income. Our "survey supervisor" started his private spiel for us. I stopped him in his tracks. I asked him for the number of points for our unit for the 7-nights, how much the MFs were for those points annually, and then showed him our rental agreements. He said he needs to talk to his supervisor and he was certain he could get us in on that. Well, supervisor came over and said he could get us 500,000 points for $75,000. I just paid $409 for 7-nights. The MFs for that was $600 if I bought from them. I asked how the math worked in my favor. Some reason, these people are stupid. I told him I will buy the points and MFs at a rate I got for the room we had. All the points would need to be given free, MFs were to be $1,000 a year for 500,000 points. Yeah, he didn't like real math and it was over from there. Then, we were getting our free voucher for any Wyndham 2BR unit for any week we wanted. Oh boy was that a fight. I had the agreement slip from where we stayed. They insisted it was for the low end stuff. I showed them the sheet and it did not state that at all. It is in clear print, on their paper work, and states "ANY". My courses on corporate law for my MBA and annual legal garbage at work made it clear who had this one won. I told them not to worry, I will just file a small claims lawsuit against them in the amount of $5,000. Some Wyndham manager would have to show up to try to defend what they have printed on paper. It would never work in their favor and I would get $5,000. That would get me more than a 2BR at any Wyndham resort. They quickly caved and gave me the correct voucher.

Well, back at the resort I see some of the people. One of them sucked in and signed for 500,000 points at $90,000. I told them they offered it to me for $75,000. They were not happy. I asked them what they paid for their unit for the week and it was 4x what I paid for it.


----------



## pedro47 (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks for sharing this important article and information.


----------



## whitewater (Nov 19, 2016)

am1 said:


> Great news.  She deserves the money and I am sure coming forward can be difficult but did she not know about any of this in the 3 years working in Virginia?
> 
> Who will end up paying for all of this?


we will as owners.  we pay legal, upkeep, new investments, salaries for sales weasels, and anything else via our MF.  

glad this was brought to light and hopefully stopped.


----------



## nicemann (Nov 19, 2016)

Really wish the sales people could be honest.  They will tell you anything they can to get you to sign the dotted line.  Heck my wife really wanted me to pay $35,000 for 200k points.  Did my research here on TUG before knew no way that was going to happen.  If I was not educated I may have given in.  They make it sound like a dream and how to can actually make money on that little bit of points.  Really funny and sad at the same time.


----------



## cgeidl (Nov 19, 2016)

I am glad that someone had the perseverance to go all the way to trial and won a big verdict. I hope the appeal and legal fees do not diminish the settlement awarded by a large amount.Many years ago I filed against a timeshare company in Texas and the investigation went on for a couple years. Just before trial the agent who was actually going to testify in our favor passed away and the case was dropped. The company had made a couple offers to settle before court but we refused this as our evidence was very clear and our thoughts were we would prevail.


----------



## gottashiner (Nov 19, 2016)

Glad the ex salesman did something but no way should she receive 20 million.  For what- doing what was right?  I think Platinum Owners need to get together and take a united stand.  I am ready.


----------



## paxsarah (Nov 19, 2016)

gottashiner said:


> Glad the ex salesman did something but *no way should she receive 20 million.  For what- doing what was right?*  I think Platinum Owners need to get together and take a united stand.  I am ready.



Punitive damages mean that it's not primarily an award for her losses (in this case, wages); it's a punishment for the company that fired her for calling out the fraud.


----------



## whitewater (Nov 19, 2016)

gottashiner said:


> Glad the ex salesman did something but no way should she receive 20 million.  For what- doing what was right?  I think Platinum Owners need to get together and take a united stand.  I am ready.



she used to make 300k annually.  no wonder the sales weasels tell everything under the sun to get deal/$$$,$$$.$$

thats crazy money for peddling lies.


----------



## ddavid1073 (Nov 23, 2016)

I think it's despicable what Wyndham sales reps do to make sales, especially to the vulnerable.  Wyndham sets the system up as a "zero sum game".  Either the sales reps eat or the buyer does.  Sales reps get no base salary so the only way they "eat" is to make sales and get their commissions.  I think it reflects the new state of America - selfishness and greed are the new sacrifice for the greater good.


----------



## Roger830 (Nov 23, 2016)

ddavid1073 said:


> I think it reflects the* new* state of America - selfishness and greed are the new sacrifice for the greater good.



What's *new*? It's been like that for the last 50 years in the timeshare universe.


----------



## windje2000 (Nov 25, 2016)

Also covered in the NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/b...a-whistle-blowers-20-million-vindication.html


----------



## Sandi Bo (Nov 26, 2016)

Do you think they'll do anything for the elderly people they took advantage of?  Good for her but what about the people that were scammed?


----------



## TUGBrian (Nov 26, 2016)

highly unlikely unless those folks have already filed complaints with the state AGs office and the AG brings a case.


----------



## 55plus (Nov 26, 2016)

Didn't the courts recently award money to an elderly couple who were lied to, pressured to buy, etc., to purchase at Glacier Canyon?


----------



## ronparise (Nov 26, 2016)

Does anyone think Wyndham wont appeal this decision


----------



## whitewater (Nov 26, 2016)

ronparise said:


> Does anyone think Wyndham wont appeal this decision


yep they will continue to fight this.  they have deeper pockets....


----------



## theo (Nov 28, 2016)

gottashiner said:


> Glad the ex salesman did something but *no way should she receive 20 million*.  <snip>



I take great pleasure in the public exposure of (and the administration of severe punishment for) deceitful sales weasel practices, but I don't believe that Ms. Williams (or anyone else) will be holding their breath while awaiting a $20 million payout.

Like Westgate cases of smaller scale, company appeals will surely drag this case out for years to come. Westgate has taken appeals through to the highest courts (...before losing) for a very small fraction of this amount of money. Wyndham has lawyers too --- and they will be going right to work on the appeal processes.

I'd be inclined to bet there is little chance that the $20 million award amount will stand; it seems quite excessive by any reasonable standard or measure.


----------



## WinniWoman (Dec 3, 2016)

http://www.advisen.com/tools/fpnproc/fpns/articles_new_45/P/270640770.html?rid=270640770&list_id=45

_[Threads merged.]_


----------



## whitewater (Dec 3, 2016)

_[Link disabled after threads merged.]_


----------



## RLS50 (Dec 3, 2016)

theo said:


> I take great pleasure in the public exposure of (and the administration of severe punishment for) deceitful sales weasel practices, but I don't believe that Ms. Williams (or anyone else) will be holding their breath while awaiting a $20 million payout.
> 
> Like Westgate cases of smaller scale, company appeals will surely drag this case out for years to come. Westgate has taken appeals through to the highest courts (...before losing) for a very small fraction of this amount of money. Wyndham has lawyers too --- and they will be going right to work on the appeal processes.
> 
> I'd be inclined to bet there is little chance that the $20 million award amount will stand; it seems quite excessive by any reasonable standard or measure.


I agree that this will be appealed and seeing that $20M may never happen for Ms. Williams.

However, I respectfully disagree that $20M is excessive.  Just like the judgments for Wall St. firms who get hit with $1B or $2B in fines for a scheme that made them 10-20 times that amount, unless and until fines are large, final, painful, and enforced...that is the only thing that would ever force change.   As it stands now, too often these fines and judgments are so rarely enforced and so small on a relative scale by the time anything gets paid out, they are just viewed as a cost of doing business for many companies that engage in these practices.  

Companies whose only driving principle is revenue generation (by almost any means), have to get hit so hard in the mouth that the taste of their own blood makes them think twice about doing it again.  Unfortunately it rarely happens.  So while we are a country of laws, too frequently those laws don't seem to have any correlation to actual justice. JMO.


----------



## ecwinch (Dec 3, 2016)

RLS50 said:


> I agree that this will be appealed and seeing that $20M may never happen for Ms. Williams.



I agree that she probably wont see $20M. Diving into the court filings, the jury awarded her $126k for lost wages, $1.3m for emotional distress, and $18.570m for punitive damages. It settles out for a fraction of that. 

And while a lot is being made about the sales practices angle, the jury only found that Wyndham violated the CA labor code by unlawfully terminating her. That she complained about those sales practices, and was fired solely for that reason.


----------



## TUGBrian (Feb 10, 2017)

appears more of these ex employees are filing similar lawsuits....cant say im surprised!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...ham-whistleblower-lawsuit-20170209-story.html


----------



## nicemann (Feb 11, 2017)

TUGBrian said:


> appears more of these ex employees are filing similar lawsuits....cant say im surprised!
> 
> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...ham-whistleblower-lawsuit-20170209-story.html



Saw that last night and was thinking the same thing.  I am really surprised there is not a ex employee on this forum giving us all the dirty secrets they were told to do.


----------



## BellaWyn (Feb 13, 2017)

nicemann said:


> Saw that last night and was thinking the same thing.  I am really surprised there is not a ex employee on this forum giving us all the dirty secrets they were told to do.


Probably because there are too many owners in this forum that have already revealed their actual experiences which are reflective of those unethical practices.  Here in TUG that information is kind of redundant and is usually met with "don't sit with sales in the first place" responses.  

TUGGERS don't do that out of being overtly aggressive, but usually just posturing that it doesn't happen if you don't sit down in the first place.  It's an unintentional smack at the OP's just wanting to vent their frustrations with the WYN sales practices.  However, the beauty of TUG is that the information gets captured, over and over again, as a fore-warning for other owners wanting to understand what just happened to them in a sales meeting gone ugly and realizing they are not alone in the process.


----------



## TUGBrian (Jun 30, 2017)

appears the 2nd case fell apart....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...m-timeshare-whistleblower-20170630-story.html


----------



## 55plus (Jul 1, 2017)

After reading the following in the article, "The plaintiffs in the Orlando case had tried to file in California first, but Wyndham had the case transferred to Orlando, where U.S. District Judge Gregory Presnell has handled many cases against locally-based timeshare companies," it appears U.S. District Judge Gregory Presnell is in the tank with Wyndham. Once he's gone maybe owners and employees will get a 'fair shake' and receive justice. But most likely Wyndham is grooming other judges to side with them for future lawsuits after Presnell leave the bench.


----------



## Larry M (Jul 8, 2017)

ecwinch said:


> I agree that she probably wont see $20M. Diving into the court filings, the jury awarded her $126k for lost wages, $1.3m for emotional distress, and $18.570m for punitive damages. It settles out for a fraction of that.
> 
> And while a lot is being made about the sales practices angle, the jury only found that Wyndham violated the CA labor code by unlawfully terminating her. That she complained about those sales practices, and was fired solely for that reason.


Does anyone know the status of the appeal?
Has the case been docketed?
Date?


----------



## ecwinch (Jul 9, 2017)

The appeal has not yet been filed, only the notice of appeal. So nothing has been docketed.


----------

