# Westin St. John Owners



## Henry M. (Mar 5, 2007)

Is there any place where a lot of Westin St. John owners congregate and where direct exchanges can be discussed? I know there's a classified section here on TUG and there's redweek.com but those do not permit any discussion. St. John owners are usually shortchanged by the number of StarOptions they have to exchange but perhaps more equitable arrangements would be possible if there way some way to connect with other SVO owners.

I heard there was a group of St, John owners but it was not very active. I don't remember the link anymore. If anyone has it, please send it to me. I did get registered to use it some time ago but lsot the URL.


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## JMS (Mar 5, 2007)

I would be more than willing to discuss trading with other Westin St. John owners.  We own one week at the Westin St. John.


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## johnmfaeth (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi All,

It may be worth looking at setting up a Westin St. John owners group on Yahoo Groups. About 5 years back, one was setup for the Wyndham Bluebeach's Beach Club on St. Thomas and we now have over 520 owners -20%+ of the total number as members. It's an incredible resource.

John


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## Bill4728 (Mar 5, 2007)

Timeshareforums has also offered a space for TS owners to setup a private page for owner groups .

PS I'm moving this to the hotel based board were Starwood owner hang out.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

I would be interested - while I was at WSJ - I told a few owners about TUG, but I don't think any ever explored when they got home.  Many WSJ owners have a lifestyle priority that doesn't include internet groups.  There are a couple of dozen on TUG - at least in the search field.

I know of some interest in setting up a group to discuss issues (e.g. the failed refurbish project - unit problems).  Perhaps, if this discussion group is set-up, we could let other WSJ owners know while we are there.

I doubt SVO/SVN would ever let other owners know about this - but that would be useful.

I would like to find other WSJ owners of unit #3410 (I know of one other).


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## Henry M. (Mar 5, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> I know of some interest in setting up a group to discuss issues (e.g. the failed refurbish project - unit problems).  Perhaps, if this discussion group is set-up, we could let other WSJ owners know while we are there.



Why don't you talk about those here? Anything other than setting up or advertising exchanges seems to be acceptable.


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## JMS (Mar 5, 2007)

I agree that would seem to be fine.  I know the last time we went, Oct. 2006, the furniture was looking a little worn out etc.  It was still a great time.  We often had the entire beach to ourselves in the early evening so that was really nice for our family.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 5, 2007)

You are welcomed to talk about WSJ here on TUG. But if you wanted to do ads for direct exchanges, rental, ect   they aren't allowed in this part of the BBS. That why I suggested TS4ms


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## JMS (Mar 5, 2007)

Are we allowed to PM each other about possible direct exchanges as long as we do not post that on the bbs?


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

emuyshondt said:


> Why don't you talk about those here? Anything other than setting up or advertising exchanges seems to be acceptable.



They have been discussed here - unfortunately, the WSJ TUG representation is a very small percentage of the WSJ owners (not even a blip).

When I bought WSJ - I had some very helpful advice from other WSJ owners (heck, I thought I was buying float week/unit when I ended up with a fixed week/unit), but otherwise it just becomes an issue discussion without impact with such low representation.

btw, A few WSJ owners hang out on the Carribbean board.

As to using TUG - 
First, I have found that even signing up for TUG (even for free) is a difficult step for some.  I have a workmate here (WKORV-N buyer) - and computer-saavy - who I have told about TUG repeatedly - and I doubt they ever showed.  Some peoples priorities are just different.  I am a researcher by profession - so I enjoy researching things.

I really do not like TUG's policy on the discussion for direct exchanges (or what has been set-up for exchanges - it is just not useful).  Sorry, but I just do not agree with it.  I also do not agree with the LMR being set at $700 and 45 days..., but  that is another story.  Howvere, the LMR example is a fair one - like many groups that are entrenched, change is very difficult - and I hear that there is some legal arguments about an open exchange forum - and I love to challenge those... but I don't bother.

As you are probably aware there was an attempt to set-up a direct exchange board outside of TUG, but it did not produce a direct exchange.

I am not sure of the solution here - to me it doesn't matter in perspective to other things - we love our WSJ unit, even with a couch that is unusable.  A Tugger put me in contact with a WSJ rep - and I along with another #3410 owner wrote letters to complain - we will see if it gets resolved by June (hopefully).

That is the value of TUG for us (information).  I wish i could say something like - 'I have a WSJ unit that I would like to direct exchange, and here are the details...' (I don't - so please don't delete...).


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## DeniseM (Mar 5, 2007)

There was a private Starwood exchange Board that a Tugger, set up a couple of years ago, and there were lots of requests for St. John exchanges, but there were no actual exchanges that ever occured (that I know  of - I haven't checked for awhile.)  

St. John owners usually seem to use, or rent their weeks, and you can't blame them for that.  St John weeks can be rented for so much $$$ that many owners probably don't consider an exchange a good value.  Even Harborside and Maui owners were unable to arrange private exchanges with St. John owners.  Also, many of the exchange requests were owners of lower demand resorts, requesting exchanges for high demand resort, and there wasn't much market for that.  There were a lot of exchange request posted - but little or no action.

*In a post below, it's reported that this board is no longer active.


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## DeniseM (Mar 5, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> I really do not like TUG's policy on the discussion for direct exchanges (or what has been set-up for exchanges - it is just not useful).



Dave - I agree, and about a mo. ago when I paid my TUG dues for the year I volunteered to help with some kind of an inter-active exchange board on TUG that would get more activity than the current TUG exchange "board."  The powers-that-be responded that something better for private exchanges was in the works, but they weren't ready to make an announcement yet.  I suspect that they will work on it once the new Ads board is fully operational.


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## JMS (Mar 5, 2007)

Was that exchange board set up here or somewhere else?


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## DeniseM (Mar 5, 2007)

JMS said:


> Was that exchange board set up here or somewhere else?



It is a private board set up by a Tugger - it wasn't part of TUG.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

JMS said:


> Are we allowed to PM each other about possible direct exchanges as long as we do not post that on the bbs?


Yes - and I get them from time-to-time, but we plan on using ours for the next few years at least.

As the OP said - the WSJ SOs are almost useless for exchanging within SVN (likely the worse).  Only renting (of which much more can be recouped as compare to the MFs), and direct exchanges are reasonable.

The SVO WSJ model for fixed weeks/units for the Hillside (VG) villas, with low SO values, really creates an interesting gridlock when it comes to exchanging within or into WSJ.  This is one reason why the new BV villas are float and fixed (and Voluntary btw).


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## JMS (Mar 5, 2007)

thanks, I wish we had known that WSJ was so in demand before we rented our 2007 week.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> There is a private Starwood exchange Board that Tugger, --------- set up a couple of years ago, and there were lots of requests for St. John exchanges, but there were no actual exchanges that ever occured (that I know  of - I haven't checked for awhile.)
> 
> St. John owners usually seem to use, or rent their weeks, and you can't blame them for that.  St John weeks can be rented for so much $$$ that many owners probably don't consider an exchange a good value.  Even Harborside and Maui owners were unable to arrange private exchanges with St. John owners.  Also, many of the exchange requests were owners of lower demand resorts, requesting exchanges for high demand resort, and there wasn't much market for that.  There were a lot of exchange request posted - but little or no action.



Denise - you may want to edit your post - The direct board went belly-up (due to no exchanges) - I am not sure that person wants to advertise it was him (if I recall correctly).


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

JMS said:


> thanks, I wish we had known that WSJ was so in demand before we rented our 2007 week.



It depends on unit type and week.  I have seen late summer - studios go cheaply. Why would this have been useful - to get higher rent value?  What do you own - how much did you get for rent (if you don't mind me asking)?.  We own a 2Bd TH - week 24 (disclosure for fairness).  We have no plans for renting or exchanging for a few years at least, but it would be good info to know what the units rent for.

With the new BV units - I would think that getting an exchange into WSJ will be easier (supply and demand) - and this is likely to be reflected in the rental prices.


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## JMS (Mar 5, 2007)

We own a one bedroom, in week 40, and it was rented out by us for less than our $1100 MF because we just ran an ad in our local paper.  We did not know about TUG then or all the other websites, like: redweek.com etc.  I would hope next time to get more than the $900 which we got.  At least enough to cover the MF.  Maybe I am dreaming.  We have not decided what to do with our 2008 week yet.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

JMS said:


> We own a one bedroom, in week 40, and it was rented out by us for less than our $1100 MF because we just ran an ad in our local paper.  We did not know about TUG then or all the other websites, like: redweek.com etc.  I would hope next time to get more than the $900 which we got.  At least enough to cover the MF.  Maybe I am dreaming.  We have not decided what to do with our 2008 week yet.



Yes - I agree - you likely could have gotten more ($1400? - assuming $200/day would be a reasonable price for WSJ).  Be aware - that there are STJ villas (non-WSJ) that can be rented relatively inexpensively - so that offers some competition.  But TS-wise - I think there is only one other TS on STJ, and WSJ has a great reputation.

We can't wait for our next week in a few months - but first... Kierland and Spring Training in a few weeks!


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## Loriannf (Mar 5, 2007)

*WSJ may not rent/exchange that easily*

I consider myself a fairly well-informed person on WSJ and SVO.  However, I've been trying to rent/exchange my 3 bedroom WSJ for a couple of months, now.  (Please don't construe this as an ad; I'd just like to relate my experience).

We own 2 3 bedroom weeks at WSJ, week 17 and week 18.  Due to my sister-in-law's family's desire to go to Harborside this summer after school lets out in NY, we've been trying to trade/exchange our unit.  As 8 people are traveling (family of 3 and family of 5) we need at least a 2 bedroom lockout. This is what I've tried so far with no luck

1)  Gave up our week 17 reservation for 2007 to waitlist for 2007 Thanksgiving week; was afraid of being totally shut out of WSJ with no week to rent, so last month took a week 47 WSJ (starts Saturday after Thanksgiving);

2)  Started calling at 8:00 a.m. (now 9:00 a.m.) every morning since 8 months out from our first possible arrival date (June 22, so started calling in November); no availability so far thru SVO;

3) Posted direct exchange ads here on TUG, Redweek, VRBO, MyresortNetwork, etc.

4) Posted rental ad here on TUG in the hope that we would be able to rent our WSJ week and use the funds to rent a Harborside week.

5) Emailed many Harborside owners with rental listings asking about the possibilities for exchange.

So far, WSJ is batting 0 for 0.  We thought we had an exchange, but the owner at Harborside appears to have decided to rent instead.  I spent about a week not calling SVO waiting for her to confirm, my mistake.  So, I'm still calling every morning trying to get in on points.

YES, I'd love to do a dedicated WSJ board and I've tried logging in to the other board mentioned by Dave, but for some reason, they don't like my browser (AOL), and I'm never able to get on.  Therefore, I can't start a WSJ blog/site.  I'd be happy to organize one if anyone would like to offer suggestions.

Lori


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi Lori -

No luck so far... sorry to hear.

First suggestion - get rid of AOL - not just for the reason you state.  There are so many better ISP providers out there.  I know you probably have had your account for a while - but AOL lacks in so many ways - you would probably do better with another (almost any other) provider.

I went to the other board - and I couldn't find the place that a WSJ would best fit, but I didn't spend a lot of time exploring.

It seems that because of your situation - and the constraints of exchanging (direct or SVO) are certainly an issue.  

I am not sure what resolve to your issue you could best expect - I guess that going the rental route up front (weeks 17-18 together) and risking that the villa could be rented for a fair price - would have worked best (outside of TUG).  Unfortunately that takes some faith because most renters are less likely to rent out really far in advance.

This is a great example that even for a WSJ owner of a sweet (and very hard to come by) villa during good weeks is constrained due to limited ability to exchange within your season - and/or the low relative low WSJ SOs as compared to other properties.

Another problem - as I see it - is due to the uniqueness of your 3Bd villa that the potential renter pool is smaller. I would guess that most people would want a 2-4 person rental.  I say these in realistic numbers of renters - meaning for our 2Bd TH - I believe it best fits 4 adults (not 6) - with a couple of potential rugrats thrown in.

I wonder if the new BV will help or hinder your (our) situation in the future?

Good luck - I have faith that it will work out for you.


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## DeniseM (Mar 5, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> Denise - you may want to edit your post - The direct board went belly-up (due to no exchanges) - I am not sure that person wants to advertise it was him (if I recall correctly).



Thanks Dave - I edited it.


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## Transit (Mar 5, 2007)

*Use Starpoints*

If getting to Westin St. John is really on your list to do and you can't get a trade why not use some starpoints 48,000 will get 5th night free on SPG in the summer non-peak and 64,000 peak or 12000-16000 per night with no blackout dates. You'll be staying at the hotel part but if you need to be there why not spend some starpoints.The Hotel part is right on the beach.


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## Henry M. (Mar 5, 2007)

Transit said:


> If getting to Westin St. John is really on your list to do and you can't get a trade why not use some starpoints 48,000 will get 5th night free on SPG in the summer non-peak and 64,000 peak or 12000-16000 per night with no blackout dates. You'll be staying at the hotel part but if you need to be there why not spend some starpoints.The Hotel part is right on the beach.


 
8 people would need 3 or 4 rooms at those rates. That is pretty high!

What is "LMR" mentioned above?

I think a real discussion place would allow better deals for everyone. It could (should?) be limited to owners (no brokers) and perhpas just for exchanges to leavee profit concerns out. I know many people would be willing to do better exchanges (Staroptions wise) such as say a 2BR Maui for a 2BR WSJ, regardless of season, three way exchanges to other high Staroption places, or the like. I could get 3 1BR in Harborside in the summer with sufficient forethought (too late this year for Lori so I am not trying to gain anything here!) , but both parties would have to work hard and have a place to even find each other. 

I am searching for a place to do discuss something like that but haven't had the time to set something up myself. Perhaps a Yahoo group would be easy enough. I'm on a business trip but when I get back I may look into it if no one beats me to it. 

There are two problems with St. John - one is the number of StarOptions and the other is the fixed weeks. I may have something to trade, but not for the particular weeks an owner has. Hopefully the new units will alleviate the issue.

Does anybody know what is the reasonig for forbidding direct echange discussions on this board? Other boards, like the Disney board, have them so I doubt it is something of a legal nature.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

LMR - Last Minute Rentals

There was a thread about changing the $/day and increasing the time period for listing in LMR.  Nothing happened - and it stayed the same.

To me in was a good example of an 'entrenched' group syndrome.  The $100/day hadn't changed for a very long time on LMR - although the cost of renting has increased.  And 45 days too short for many people - especially in today's world post-9/11.

I did not chime into this thread because it was easy to see which way it was going - log jam...


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## grgs (Mar 5, 2007)

emuyshondt said:


> What is "LMR" mentioned above?



Last Minute Rentals


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## Transit (Mar 5, 2007)

I think most people are leary about direct exchanges because of the lack of warranty that a stay would be honered.This is why I believe direct exchanges really havn't taken off. If websites were to offer some kind of insurance that these types of exchanges would be honered it would probably go over well.Redweek is trying to charge 30 bucks for this and your on your own if anything goes wrong.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

Transit said:


> I think most people are leary about direct exchanges because of the lack of warranty that a stay would be honered.This is why I believe direct exchanges really havn't taken off. If websites were to offer some kind of insurance that these types of exchanges would be honered it would probably go over well.Redweek is trying to charge 30 bucks for this and your on your own if anything goes wrong.



In general -  I agree with this between 2 dissimiliar systems.

However, within the SVO/SVN system - I would think that if both parties were to put the reservations in the others name (along with appropriate documentation that states the agreement in writing) - it would be easy to check that the reservation confirmation number via SVO/SVN because an owner can call SVO/SVN and gain access to this info.  Whereas - a non-SVO owner cannot.


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## DeniseM (Mar 5, 2007)

Transit said:


> I think most people are leary about direct exchanges because of the lack of warranty that a stay would be honered.This is why I believe direct exchanges really havn't taken off. If websites were to offer some kind of insurance that these types of exchanges would be honered it would probably go over well.Redweek is trying to charge 30 bucks for this and your on your own if anything goes wrong.



A "warranty" from RCI or II makes you feel safe???  :hysterical: Have you read the recent posts about the big exchange companies cancelling people's exchanges at the last minute?  Not to mention all the deposited weeks that expire because the exchange companies gladly accept valuable deposits and then can't come up with a decent exchange?

Yeah, Starwood "exchanges" seem to be a better deal, but some exchanges seem to be nearly impossible!

A direct exchange is no more risky than a rental, and there seems to be a lot more rentals than direct exchanges.  I don't think a private exchange with an an established tugger is any riskier - maybe less risky!  

I think the real problem on TUG is that the "Exchange Board" is simply a list -  it's hard to read and there are relatively few exchanges listed.  I think a well-designed, highly-visible, interactive exchange board, on TUG, would get a lot of attention.


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## Transit (Mar 5, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> A "warranty" from RCI or II makes you feel safe???  :hysterical:


Those are horror stories  I do think that there would be a higher level of trust amoung established tuggers.I do think that "the List" is kinda stale and a interactive exchange board would be much better This would be great for SVO owners especialy at the big 3 where there is not much to trade into to achive an equal (fair ) exchange.  If this is done here I would suggest it be open to all not just Starwood. Direct exchange is a great idea. Implementing it well will be difficult.


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## DeniseM (Mar 5, 2007)

Transit said:


> Those are horror stories  I do think that there would be a higher level of trust amoung established tuggers.I do think that "the List" is kinda stale and a interactive exchange board would be much better This would be great for SVO owners especialy at the big 3 where there is not much to trade into to achive an equal (fair ) exchange.  If this is done here I would suggest it be open to all not just Starwood. Direct exchange is a great idea. Implementing it well will be difficult.



My understanding is the TUG is going to implement an interactive exchange board for all Tuggers - I think it's going to be great!  I have rented to a Tugger, and I have one private exchange all scheduled with another, and I'm working on exchanges with a 2 other  Tuggers - so far, the transactions have been painless.  I LOVE knowing EXACTLY what week I am going to get for my exchange, not paying fees, and not have to work with the darn exchange companies!


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## jerseygirl (Mar 5, 2007)

WSJ (and "prime" gold Harborside) owners should lobby starwood for a StarOption adjustment.  They've adjusted them at least once since I've been paying attention .... 2004, I think.  All were "upward" adjustments at certain resorts only -- but I don't remember the details.

For now, Starwood continues to sell units to people who believe it will be no problem to trade into WSJ.  Sooner or later, word will get out on a larger scale.  And, the only way they're going to get more WSJ and other undervalued units deposited for internal exchange is to ensure that owners can obtain a truly equivalent exchange, from a demand point of a view.


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## DavidnRobin (Mar 5, 2007)

Hey - how about somethng as simple as...

I have Week X at Resort Y - and I am looking for week x at resort y.

I have never understood the issue about this on TUG (with guidelines/rules of course) - and being a TUG member required to view/post.


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## JMS (Mar 6, 2007)

Is there no place on the bbs for doing exchanges at all?  Or am I missing something.


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## DeniseM (Mar 6, 2007)

JMS said:


> Is there no place on the bbs for doing exchanges at all?  Or am I missing something.



It's not allowed in the forums.  The only place you can post for a direct exchange is linked through the classified ads and it's just a list - It's not interactive, interesting, or visible.

Click on CLASSIFIED ADS and the scroll down to DIRECT EXCHANGE


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## mabelline7 (Mar 22, 2007)

It was a big shame that the Starwood direct trading board did not work.  It seemed that there were too many Westin Kanap and not enough Westin St. John Owners.  All of Hawaii wanted to trade into WSJ.  I personally could not afford the airfare to get to Hawaii to even consider it right now, although the airfare is now sky high to St. John also.  Renting is also not as easy as one thinks, so I personally believe that if you are going to buy at WSJ, that you can NOT buy thinking that you can rent and make up enough money to pay the HIGH mf's and have extra money to go somewhere else.  Other major disappointment is if you can't use your week, GOOD LUCK trying to trade in for another.  You have a fat chance, unless you want hurricane season.


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