# Best place to find resale Worldmark points?



## jules54

Want to stay in Northwest and Worldmark has the most resorts. I own over 1 million Wyndham points, but don't have Club Pass and don't want to spend anymore money with Wyndham. 
Of course until about 2 years ago Wyndham owners had access to the Worldmark resorts without Club Access. Another screwing over from Wyndham.


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## bbodb1

Jules54, 

Recently, I asked a similar question in this thread: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index....ght-proper-forum-to-discuss-worldmark.259551/

You may find that helpful.


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## ronparise

4 brokers I can recommend

Marc Talley and Bill Stephan of Smartshare.com

Mike Murphy of TLS timeshares

Henri Moreau of wmcredits.net

Timeshare angels 

There are others but I don't have direct knowlege 

Or just go to eBay

Also folks sell on a Facebook page and on wmowners.com


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## VacationForever

I used Timeshare Angels.


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## rhonda

We've enjoyed smooth WM purchase transactions through RedSeason.com



jules54 said:


> Want to stay in Northwest and Worldmark has the most resorts. I own over 1 million Wyndham points, but don't have Club Pass and don't want to spend anymore money with Wyndham.
> *Of course until about 2 years ago Wyndham owners had access to the Worldmark resorts without Club Access. Another screwing over from Wyndham.*


Yes!  I feel your pain ... and had said the same thing re: WM > Wyndham reservations.  Thankfully, the Wyndham resort I use most frequently, as a Worldmark owner, gained some native-WM inventory soon after Club Pass was introduced.  So, my frustration was, somewhat, set aside.


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## geist1223

I have made several purchases of WM on EBay.


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## bbodb1

If I may ask a question of those more familiar with Worldmark on the resale market: In looking about a bit on some of the websites mentioned above by Ron, it is starting to appear that a price of 35 - 40 cents per WorldMark point is a given in the resale market.  Should that be considered the HIGHEST one should pay for WorldMark?  

I am going to spend some time reading more about WorldMark because it seems to be quite different than RCI and Wyndham and I may ask some more questions but as I am looking at ads on the various resources, I'd at least like to start with some idea of what constitutes a reasonable price.  Thanks!


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## rhonda

@bbodb1, the top-end resellers often list at higher prices compared to recently completed sales on eBay.  However -- I consider that a guarantee of really great service as compared to an owner-listing on eBay.  The experienced reseller knows how to read the contract for current status (# of annual points, banked points, dues, etc.) and, perhaps most importantly, has personal contacts inside of WM's Transfer Department to get the job done.

If this is your first WM transaction, I'd suggest sticking with one of the known/recommended resellers.  Once you've gone through the process, and taken good notes, you'll be better prepared to navigate the same system on your own with a private seller transaction with, one hopes, a smidge of savings.


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## ronparise

World mark contract prices can vary based on how close they are to being "fully loaded"   And how close it is to the next anniversary. 

You may find a contract with current years credits  and last years credits in it, as well as next years available to borrow (fully loaded) or  you my find contracts with no credits available. Or something in between.  Fully loaded contracts are worth more. And a contract with the next allocation next month is worth more than one with an anniversary 10 or 11 months away

Mike Murphy has a really good way to compare contracts on his website


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## kukenan

Contact Judi judi@judikoz.com http://www.judikoz.com, known broker for Hilton, also sells Worldmark.


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## bbodb1

Thank you, Ron.  Just to confirm I didn't land on the wrong page, are you referring to: http://www.tlstimeshares.com/inventory.asp
I know that is what you listed above, but these days in cyberspace, it never hurts to verify.


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## ronparise

bbodb1 said:


> Thank you, Ron.  Just to confirm I didn't land on the wrong page, are you referring to: http://www.tlstimeshares.com/inventory.asp
> I know that is what you listed above, but these days in cyberspace, it never hurts to verify.




Yes that's the murphy's site

Mike Murphy runs the company now but it was stared by his parents. They have been dealing in Worldmark timeshares from the very beginning of Worldmark, then known as Trendwest


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## geist1223

Also check out www.wmowners.com/forum. Many Owners have their own accounts for sale. I have seen empty current accounts list for 30 to 40 cents per Point. I have seen fully loaded (2 years worth Points) accounts listed for 25 to 35 cents per Point. It all varies. No one but EBAY actually posts the final selling price.

3 years ago (times they are a changing) I bought a fully loaded 7,000 Point Account for 10 cents per Point and a fully loaded 15,000 Point Account for 21 cents per Point on EBAY.

Read here and ask questions here. Read the Forum and ask questions on www.wmowners.com.


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## bbodb1

Okay, so this was interesting.  I took a run at a few Worldmark listings through one of the resellers listed here.  To be fair, I did make an offer MUCH lower than what they were asking for and they (the sellers) were certainly within their rights to refuse any offer.  I'm slightly surprised someone did not come back with some counter offer - in fact the only response I got was a restatement of the original offer.  No lowered price at all. 

To be clear - I am NOT relating this story to complain rather I wanted to see if the Worldmark resale market would negotiate down from the posted prices.  If my offer was conveyed to the sellers, none of them budged.  

Is it a fair statement to say that resale listing companies produce listings that are less likely to negotiate from a posted price?  That would seem at odds with the idea that a timeshare is not worth much.  

Again, just to be clear, I am not complaining but rather questioning the value of Worldmark on the resale market.


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## VacationForever

bbodb1 said:


> Okay, so this was interesting.  I took a run at a few Worldmark listings through one of the resellers listed here.  To be fair, I did make an offer MUCH lower than what they were asking for and they (the sellers) were certainly within their rights to refuse any offer.  I'm slightly surprised someone did not come back with some counter offer - in fact the only response I got was a restatement of the original offer.  No lowered price at all.
> 
> To be clear - I am NOT relating this story to complain rather I wanted to see if the Worldmark resale market would negotiate down from the posted prices.  If my offer was conveyed to the sellers, none of them budged.
> 
> Is it a fair statement to say that resale listing companies produce listings that are less likely to negotiate from a posted price?  That would seem at odds with the idea that a timeshare is not worth much.
> 
> Again, just to be clear, I am not complaining but rather questioning the value of Worldmark on the resale market.


Worldmark timeshares are valued between 30cents to 40cents per point, higher end for fully loaded contracts.  Not worth much is a relative phrase.


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## bbodb1

VacationForever said:


> Worldmark timeshares are valued between 30cents to 40cents per point, higher end for fully loaded contracts.  Not worth much is a relative phrase.



That is sort of what I was trying to understand - we hear so often that timeshares are not worth what you think (always less, if any value at all).  Why is Worldmark able to hold at the 30 to 40 cent per point level when other timeshares seem not to be anywhere close to that?  Again, please understand I am not complaining but rather trying to understand the market.  Why is WorldMark able to better retain value in the resale market compared to others?  

I'm going to keep looking for sure and who knows, maybe a -really- good deal is out there.......


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## VacationForever

Low maintenance fees, fair to resales owners, no guest fees, no penalty for changes up to a month before the stay, 90 to 100 locations, cash bookings... the list is long.  The quality of most resorts is excellent, not quite Marriott, Hyatt or Vistana level, but definitely way above what we often think of 3 star..they are like 3.5 stars.


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## ronparise

bbodb1 said:


> That is sort of what I was trying to understand - we hear so often that timeshares are not worth what you think (always less, if any value at all).  Why is Worldmark able to hold at the 30 to 40 cent per point level when other timeshares seem not to be anywhere close to that?  Again, please understand I am not complaining but rather trying to understand the market.  Why is WorldMark able to better retain value in the resale market compared to others?
> 
> I'm going to keep looking for sure and who knows, maybe a -really- good deal is out there.......



I wonder how you determined how much to offer. I mean how would you know if the brokers asking price is fair or not

Here's how I decided how much a Worldmark timeshare was worth to me

A 2 bedroom week at one of the legacy Worldmark resorts is 10000 credits and the maintenance fees on 10000 credits is about $700. So if I pay $3000 to buy those credits my cost for the first 10 years will be $1000 a year. That seems fair to me. Obviously I'd like to get it cheaper but $3000 seems fair

Compare that to a Wyndham contract. A 2 bedroom week at a legacy resort in the Wyndham  system is 154000 points and the annual mf  on a 154000 point contract will be about $1000. $1000 a week seems fair but there is no room to offer anything for that Wyndham contract. 

Your analysis of value will be different than mine. My advice is to determine how you intend to use the timeshare, figure out what it's worth to you and then bid accordingly


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## LisaH

Unlike most of the timeshares, a Worldmark account actually is worth something and is relatively liquid to sell. I have owned WM since maybe 2000. At that point, I paid about .70 cents per point. Today, I can easily resell for about .40 cent. Considering all the vacations and bonus time we took, I am totally OK with the lost in value. I have given away a few weeks but have not considered to part with my WM account. In addition to what Vacationforever has listed, WM will even let you cancel with the 30 days window, and you may get all or part of the points back if someone book the days you cancelled. It's the most owner friendly timeshare I have owned to this day.


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## VacationForever

Also, just do not use a broad brush to paint "a timeshare is not worth much". The resale market is typically below developers' prices.  When you look at several big names timeshare systems, Marriott, Vistana (formerly Starwood), Hyatt, Hilton... many of these properties in highly desirable locations like Hawaii in the resale market are still worth quite a bit of money.  For Hyatt, they had been friendly to resale buyer (past tense because now they have a new point system after ILG bought Hyatt timeshare... which I do not know how it affects the old model) like Worldmark and their timeshare held pretty good value.


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## bbodb1

Thanks to each of you for your insights on this.  I'll admit that I have not performed a mental calculus similar to what Ron is suggesting and with my timeshare background consisting of RCI and Wyndham, I likely do view all timeshares as similarly valued.  Until my recent St. George stay, I had not stayed at a WorldMark resort nor have I stayed at any of the systems VacationForever listed.  My past experience suggests Wyndham resorts are usually nicer than RCI resorts but after reading more on TUG, I see how such an observation can be flawed (distorted may be a better word) since RCI is comparatively large versus Wyndham in the number of properties offered and (if I understand correctly) how the properties become a part of each system (Wyndham and RCI).  My first reaction to Worldmark was pretty much 'this is a Wyndham West' and I valued Worldmark similar to Wyndham.     

Bottom line: I'm still learning.  I do heartedly agree with Lisa's point as it is similar to how I view my timeshare purchase decisions.  Some were good, some not but one thing they all gave us is a reason and a means to vacation to places my family likely would never have vacationed to without timeshare.  Hard to put a value on that....


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## jules54

jules54 said:


> Want to stay in Northwest and Worldmark has the most resorts. I own over 1 million Wyndham points, but don't have Club Pass and don't want to spend anymore money with Wyndham.
> Of course until about 2 years ago Wyndham owners had access to the Worldmark resorts without Club Access. Another screwing over from Wyndham.


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## jules54

Thanks everyone for your replies. I obviously have much more research to do.
Another questions when buying Worldmark do you have a home resort? Are the fees different for each resort?
Thanks again.


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## mash84121

jules54 said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies. I obviously have much more research to do.
> Another questions when buying Worldmark do you have a home resort? Are the fees different for each resort?
> Thanks again.



Worldmark is purely a points based system, so you do not have a home resort.  MFs are based on the number of points you own.


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## geist1223

Also MF's are in 2,500 block increments. So a person with 7,501 Points might pay the exact same total dollar amount in MF's as a person with 10,000 Points. Also normally the more Points you own the less MF's you pay per Point. You get one House Keeping Token from 6,000 Points to 19,999 Points. Then at 20,000 you get a second House Keeping Token and then an addition House Keeping Token for each 10,000 Points. You can also rent Points from other Owners but you can not Transfer House Keeping Tokens. There are other ways to use Money for Reservations - Bonus Time, Monday Madness, and Inventory Specials.


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## rhonda

Link to 2017 Annual Maintenance Fee Schedule (a PDF file on the official WM website)


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## spackler

VacationForever said:


> The quality of most resorts is excellent, not quite Marriott, Hyatt or Vistana level, but definitely way above what we often think of 3 star..they are like 3.5 stars.



How would the typical Worldmark resort compare to the average Wyndham resort?


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## VacationForever

spackler said:


> How would the typical Worldmark resort compare to the average Wyndham resort?



We have not stayed at any Wyndham resorts but from previous TUG postings, it appears that quality is similar.  Quality also varies by resort.  Worldmark rooms are always very comfortable, clean and nice.  The locations cannot be beaten.  Worldmark provides common used spices in small packets in the kitchen which I think is the only system that does that.


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## rhonda

spackler said:


> How would the typical Worldmark resort compare to the average Wyndham resort?


As a long-time Worldmark owner, I've had a few Wyndham stays through various channels: renting through an owner; booked as WM owner through WM>Wyndham affiliate programs; or RCI exchange into Wyndham property.  I find the two fairly similar in quality level except that WM is a bit more "uniform" across the product.  _Some_ Wyndham stays have been "a notch higher" in unit quality, especially the counter tops.  However most of my Wyndham stays have not been as _consistent_ in appliance branding / condition, cooking pots and pans, etc. 

I'm pleased to say that I've experienced better Wyndham units in recent years than earlier.  Seems the Wyndham trend is on a slow upgrade cycle including Cuisinart small kitchen appliances and better pots/pans.  (Maybe the Wyndham pots/pans are being replaced with the same sturdy set we've been using in WM units for ages?  )

Odd comments of differences:

Wyndham: We've always preferred Wyndham coffee mugs (taller, larger!) over Worldmark coffee mugs (short, small).
Wyndham: Might include a package of microwave popcorn.  Nice.
Wyndham: Kitchen countertops may be laminate -- but are often a more solid, pleasing, material.
Wyndham: Living room couch is usually leather or leather-like material.  (Pleather?)

Worldmark: Kitchen stocked with salt, pepper and a collection of spice packets.  Love these!
Worldmark: _Usually_ offers a murphy bed vs fold-out couch for those sleeping in the living room.
Worldmark: Kitchen counter top is usually laminate.
Worldmark: Unit configurations / layouts are highly consistent.  You'll know exactly where to find something in the kitchen ... almost w/out looking.
Worldmark: Living room couch is usually fabric (not leather).
Worldmark: (Just my personal finding ... but the mattresses _seem_ firmer, newer, fresher than those of Wyndham.  Maybe WM does a more rapid refresh cycle given their long commitment to "Just like new, every time" ?)
Worldmark: (Again, personal finding ... more constant housekeeping than Wyndham.  I've found some really strange, even disturbing, things overlooked by Wyndham's housekeeping.  Ewww.)


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## bbodb1

We have stayed at a good number of Wyndham Resorts and have (in general) found them to be nice - certainly nicer than most RCI resorts.   But that wasn't your question of course...We just recently stayed at WorldMark St. George and it does compare quit favorably with much of my Wyndham experience.  If WorldMark St. George is typical of the WorldMark experience, I too agree with the notion that the quality of Wyndham and Worldmark should be quite comparable for the most part.

It is worth noting that WorldMark is more common in the Western U.S. while Wyndham is more common in the Eastern U.S..


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## TheHappyWanderer

Do not look at asking prices on Ebay in an attempt estimate the going rate on Worldmark accounts.  You must log in to eBay do an advanced search and look at "Completed Listings" for a better estimate.


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## ronparise

spackler said:


> How would the typical Worldmark resort compare to the average Wyndham resort?



It looks like wyndham is step by step, property by property, bringing Worldmark up to the same standards as Club Wyndham. For example when I first visited a Worldmark resort several years ago, I was surprised to see that they had no curtains on the windows. Club Wyndham has black out curtains on the windows (important to me for my afternoon naps, and my wife who likes to sleep late), also only one TV (none in the bedrooms), and no shampoo etc.  like Club Wyndham.  Counter tops were formica

so now you can visit some worldmark resorts , and see no difference between them and Wyndham


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## JohnPaul

I find that Worldmark units are pretty consistent.  Probably laminate counters and white appliances (vs maybe granite and stainless steel).  Non standard properties (such as urban) typically make clear what you are getting.  If you compare standard units (as opposed to a standard in one place and a presidential in another), you are unlikely to have a palace in one place and a dump in another.

I've only experienced two Wyndhams and they were wildly different.  The Wyndham Canterbury in San Francisco was lovely.  The Wyndham Pagosa in Colorado was a disaster.  (Clean but not WM quality).  However, even the Wyndham Pagosa varies a great deal based on which of the 7 HOA's you end up in.

Because WM is one entity that owns all WM inventory it is much simpler to offer a consistent product.  Wyndham is made of a zillion resorts, each with a BOA and it's own MF and decisions on when to renovate and how.


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## Stephanie Cecil

Looking to purchase a small Worldmark TS, but inventory seems expensive for aftermarket prices. Does anyone have any contacts?

RNcecil


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## WManning

ronparise said:


> 4 brokers I can recommend
> 
> Marc Talley and Bill Stephan of Smartshare.com
> 
> Mike Murphy of TLS timeshares
> 
> Henri Moreau of wmcredits.net
> 
> Timeshare angels
> 
> There are others but I don't have direct knowlege
> 
> Or just go to eBay
> 
> Also folks sell on a Facebook page and on wmowners.com


I will second LTD. Just great people to work with!


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