# Question about Renting/Borrowing Points



## akfoss (May 12, 2010)

Thank you in advance for answering my question!

I have 112k points that expire at the end of September 2010.  The reservation I have in mind will cost 85k points.  I would then like to make a 28k deposit to RCI.  This totals 113k points, so I will be 1k short.  

Will I be able to purchase the 1k points from Wyndham when I make the RCI deposit, or will I be able to "borrow" from 2011 points.  

In the past, I have deposited future year points into the credit pool as a way to "pull them forward" into the currently use year.  However, it does not seem practical to do this for just 1k points.  Nonetheless, is this an option consider the need for so few points?

Allan


----------



## Jya-Ning (May 12, 2010)

Both are workable.

Jya-Ning


----------



## janej (May 12, 2010)

You can only borrow from next year to make reservations for the next 90 days.  If you know your September reservation will be available by then.  You can wait.  Otherwise, you will have to make another reservation for the next 90 day, cancel it and hope the points stays in this use year.  When I did that, the points  were returned back to next year.  I had to call twice to get it straighten out.

Since you only need 1k, I would just pay Wyndham $10 for it.  I paid $70 for 7k points to make an RCI deposit.  It was very easy.


----------



## hjtug (May 12, 2010)

janej said:


> Since you only need 1k, I would just pay Wyndham $10 for it.  I paid $70 for 7k points to make an RCI deposit.  It was very easy.



Can you "rent" points directly to use for an RCI deposit or do you have to make a reservation and cancel it like you must if you borrow the points from the following year?


----------



## Goofyhobbie (May 12, 2010)

> *Allan said:* I have 112k points that expire at the end of September 2010. The reservation I have in mind will cost 85k points. I would then like to make a 28k deposit to RCI. This totals 113k points, so I will be 1k short.
> 
> Will I be able to purchase the 1k points from Wyndham when I make the RCI deposit, or will I be able to "borrow" from 2011 points.
> 
> In the past, I have deposited future year points into the credit pool as a way to "pull them forward" into the currently use year. However, it does not seem practical to do this for just 1k points. Nonetheless, is this an option consider the need for so few points?




Your options:

Assuming you have determined what you want, have at least *two*  complimentary reservation transactions remaining and sufficient House Keeping points, recommend that you go ahead and make the desired 85K Internal Reservation as soon as possible using Regular Use Year points available in your account.

Do it while the inventory is still available. With the prime season now upon us, availability may disappear soon

Unless, you have an immediate need to make an Exchange using your Exchange Company wait until the first week of September to deposit the 28K. 

*Note:* You will need the extra reservation transaction mentioned above when you make the 28K deposit transaction.  By waiting, until the first week of September you extend the additional travel opportunity until September 30, 2012 so that you will have until September 30, 2012 to actually complete the travel. (You do not have to deposit the 28K on September 30, 2010 to extend until September 30, 2012.)

To get the needed extra 1K points you can simply borrow the points from your 2012 allocation; but you cannot do that prior to July 1, 2010.

You can also Rent the 1K from Wyndham for $10.00 as another poster has advised above.


----------



## Goofyhobbie (May 12, 2010)

> *hjtug asked*: Can you "rent" points directly to use for an RCI deposit or do you have to make a reservation and cancel it like you must if you borrow the points from the following year?



You do not have to make a reservation and then cancel the reservation to borrow points from the next Use Year.

Yes, you can "rent points;" but the points can only be rented from Wyndham. 

Prior to March 1, 2009 a Club Wyndham Plus Member could "rent" or transfer  points to another member's account; but that option no longer exist.


----------



## hjtug (May 12, 2010)

Goofyhobbie said:


> You do not have to make a reservation and then cancel the reservation to borrow points from the next Use Year



Are you thinking about borrowing points from the next use year in order to get enough points to trade?  I know I have read several times in various threads that it is necessary to convert the borrowed points to cancelled points in the current year before using them as part of a trade deposit.  I thought this process is what janej referred to above: 



janej said:


> Otherwise, you will have to make another reservation for the next 90 day, cancel it and hope the points stays in this use year. When I did that, the points were returned back to next year. I had to call twice to get it straighten out.



I just read your post in the other thread and understand that you are talking about borrowing  points for exchanging.  It seems that many folks think you must go the cancelled points route.


----------



## hjtug (May 13, 2010)

From the Wyndham website:

On borrowing points for exchange;
"Points may not be borrowed to complete an exchange deposit.
Points from different Use Years may not be combined to make an exchange company deposit"

On renting points from Wyndham for exchange;
"What if I do not have enough points, Housekeeping Credits, or a Reservation Transaction to complete my deposit?
You can still make a Worldwide External Exchange deposit. Just contact Vacation Planning at 1-800-251-8736 option 1 and then option 1 and one of our Vacation Planning Counselors will be happy to assist you. Please have a credit card available for additional charges."


----------



## Goofyhobbie (May 18, 2010)

*Clarification*

If you own one contract or several contracts with the same USE YEAR start dates you cannot reach into the next USE YEAR of one of those contracts and borrow points to combine with points you have left over in the current USE YEAR when the goal is explicitly to create a deposit for RCI. 

However, if you own contracts with different USE YEAR start dates the contracts are considered to be overlapping by Wyndham and borrowing from an overlapping USE YEAR contract is permitted. 

*Example: *An owner has a 105K contract with a USE YEAR start date of January 1 and an end date of December 31. The owner also has a 154K contract with a USE YEAR start date of April 1 and an end date of March 31. 

The contracts overlap. However, getting this done with the help of a Wyndham VC may or may not work for you depending on the VC's experience and willingness to help the member conserve points.

If at the end of the "current USE YEAR" (December 31, 2010) the member has 3K points left over, the member can borrow 25K from the "current USE YEAR" that ends March 31, 2011 to create a 28K deposit; but the deposit has to be created and deposited with the exchange company before the end of the "current USE YEAR" of December 31, 2010." 

In other words the transaction should take place before December 31, 2010 or the 3K left over points would simply expire.


----------



## hjtug (May 19, 2010)

Goofyhobbie said:


> However, if you own contracts with different USE YEAR start dates the contracts are considered to be overlapping by Wyndham and borrowing from an overlapping USE YEAR contract is permitted.


Yes, this is a good point.  I saw a post somewhere recently where the poster pointed out that having contracts with different use years makes it much easier to deal with a small amount of points that otherwise might be left over and lost at the end of a use year.



Goofyhobbie said:


> but the deposit has to be created and deposited with the exchange company before the end of the "current USE YEAR" of December 31, 2010."



Unless I misunderstand what you say here, I believe it is not quite correct, at least for our trading with II.  In your example, I believe that once we have Wyndham create the 28K deposit before December 31, we will have two years to deposit and use it with II.


----------



## Goofyhobbie (May 19, 2010)

> Unless I misunderstand what you say here, I believe it is not quite correct, at least for our trading with II. In your example, I believe that once we have Wyndham create the 28K deposit before December 31, we will have two years to deposit and use it with II.



hjtug,

My experience is limited to RCI.  But, deposits with II work the same way.

You say "...we will have two years to deposit..."

Unfortunately that part of the statement is wrong. See page 296 of the current Club Wyndham Plus Member's Directory 2009-2010 where it says:



> You may use your points to deposit a week with your exchange company up to the last day of your Use Year.  You will receive a deposit for a full week stay that can be used for an exchange reservation up to 2 years from the date of deposit.



Once you create the 28K deposit you must follow-through and actually have Wyndham deposit the 28K with RCI or II before the end of the "current USE YEAR" which in the example would be before December 31, 2010.

The second part of the statement is correct. ("...we will have two years...to...use it with II.")  But, the deposit has to be final before the end of the "current USE Year" or the left over points and the borrowed points will expire unused.


----------



## hjtug (May 19, 2010)

Goofyhobbie said:


> hjtug,
> 
> My experience is limited to RCI.  But, deposits with II work the same way.
> 
> ...



Which of the above words are on P. 296?  Am I overlooking them?

Here is my recent experience:  Late in 2009 I called Wyndham and had my remaining 2009 points converted to several deposits for use with II.  I did not contact II in 2009 to let them know and as far as I know neither did Wyndham.  I have made a couple of exchange reservations online and initiated one ongoing search in 2010.  With each one of these II gave me a tentative confirmation.  Because they were unaware of my exchange deposits, they then contacted Wyndham to confirm that I had an exchange deposit available of the correct number of points.  Once Wyndham confirmed this, I received the final confirmation from II.  I see no indication that II was in any way aware of my deposits until I actually requested an exchange in 2010.


----------



## Goofyhobbie (May 19, 2010)

> Which of the above words are on P. 296? Am I overlooking them?



hjtug,

In my post above, I was simply pointing out that it is wrong to think that you as an owner *"...have two years to deposit..." *the left over points and/or the borrowed points.  The two years *to use *applies to the deposit AFTER it is given to your exchange company.

The deposit to RCI or II has to be completed by the end of the USE YEAR. In your case, Wyndham made it right; but, the deposits should have reached II before the end of the Use Year. 

The words as stated in the Directory are not your words.  What was quoted from the Directory is restated in the following Quote box and can be found in the second paragraph on the top left quadrant of page 296.



> You may use your points to deposit a week with your exchange company up to the last day of your Use Year. You will receive a deposit for a full week stay that can be used for an exchange reservation up to 2 years from the date of deposit.



You did what you were suppose to do when you contacted Wyndham and asked that they make separate deposits of your left over points. You asked that the "deposits" be made before the Use Year came to a close and Wyndham should have made the deposits when you requested them. 

You are fortunate that after January 1, 2010 the deposits were found by Wyndham and eventually reached II.

To any Wyndham points owner reading this, be aware that it is a good idea to follow-up with your exchange company to make sure the deposits were made by Wyndham.  Don't assume that the "deposit(s)" were made only to find out many months later that your points expired on the last day of the USE YEAR.


----------



## alexadeparis (May 19, 2010)

Goofyhobbie said:


> To any Wyndham points owner reading this, be aware that it is a good idea to follow-up with your exchange company to make sure the deposits were made by Wyndham.  Don't assume that the "deposit(s)" were made only to find out many months later that your points expired on the last day of the USE YEAR.



And I have HAD THIS HAPPEN! It took forever to straighten out.


----------



## hjtug (May 20, 2010)

Goofyhobbie said:


> hjtug,
> 
> In my post above, I was simply pointing out that it is wrong to think that you as an owner *"...have two years to deposit..." *the left over points and/or the borrowed points.  The two years *to use *applies to the deposit AFTER it is given to your exchange company.
> 
> ...



I am very surprised to hear this.  Wyndham recently told me that Wyndham keeps track of my available II deposits and that II does not keep track.  This was not a surprise to me because II told me the exact same thing in the past.  II has never indicated the necessity or even interest in knowing the number and type of II deposits I had available until I tried to make an exchange or start an ongoing search.  Then, all they were interested in knowing was whether I had a deposit of the correct size available for that transaction.  No one at Wyndham or II complained that the way our 2010 exchanges with 2009 deposits were handled was in any way out of the ordinary.  We still have one more deposit from 2009 that we have not yet used for an exchange with II.  I sure hope that one goes as smoothy as the others.


----------

