# Trying to verify Worldmark salesmen's promises



## wadefromutah

I am totally new to timeshares in general.

I have a Worldmark resort near me, and I am interested in getting a large number of points/credits for my company where about 14 people would share.

I've seen where I can get 65k points for about 20k dollars (not sure if that is a good deal, and if not, where can I get better?) from a third party seller, but the worldmark salesmen (of course) say that it is a huge mistake to get those, and I should buy the points from them for 4 times the price.

They say that:

1- if I have travel share (that I can only get through them) I can exchange 4000 points for last minute travel plus a fee to go anywhere in the RCI network which I get for free if I buy from them (of course, the membership is cheap, so I dont care about that). 

I have called RCI and verified that this claim is partially true. The fee was higher than I was told, and they said that "hot" properties like Hawaii are NEVER only 4k points...but that this was fairly accurate.

Is it true that third party points will be treated differently in this scenario? 

2- If I have over 63k points, I dont have to pay housekeeping fees...

If I bought the 65k points from a third party do I still get "platinum elite" status and get those benefits?

I really just want to get enough points that each of my 14-16 employees can take a vacation every other year or so to more than just one location. It feels like, when I talk to the sales guys, I will regret not getting them from the company, but I cant tell what is true and what isnt. 

Does anyone on this forum have third party worldgate points, and do you get treated like a second class citizen by the company?

What is the best scenario for me? Help!!

And thanks!


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## ronparise

wadefromutah said:


> I am totally new to timeshares in general.
> 
> I have a Worldmark resort near me, and I am interested in getting a large number of points/credits for my company where about 14 people would share.
> 
> I've seen where I can get 65k points for about 20k dollars (not sure if that is a good deal, and if not, where can I get better?) from a third party seller, but the worldmark salesmen (of course) say that it is a huge mistake to get those, and I should buy the points from them for 4 times the price.
> 
> They say that:
> 
> 1- if I have travel share (that I can only get through them) I can exchange 4000 points for last minute travel plus a fee to go anywhere in the RCI network which I get for free if I buy from them (of course, the membership is cheap, so I dont care about that).
> 
> I have called RCI and verified that this claim is partially true. The fee was higher than I was told, and they said that "hot" properties like Hawaii are NEVER only 4k points...but that this was fairly accurate.
> 
> Is it true that third party points will be treated differently in this scenario?
> 
> 2- If I have over 63k points, I dont have to pay housekeeping fees...
> 
> If I bought the 65k points from a third party do I still get "platinum elite" status and get those benefits?
> 
> I really just want to get enough points that each of my 14-16 employees can take a vacation every other year or so to more than just one location. It feels like, when I talk to the sales guys, I will regret not getting them from the company, but I cant tell what is true and what isnt.
> 
> Does anyone on this forum have third party worldgate points, and do you get treated like a second class citizen by the company?
> 
> What is the best scenario for me? Help!!
> 
> And thanks!




First of all do you have any job openings. You sound like the kind of guy that I would like to work for

I own 66000 Worldmark credits bought on the secondary market at prices similar to what you have been quoted. And no I dont feel like a second class citizen

Resale buyers do not get travelshare. So whatever benefit travelshare offers you wont get....

Regarding travelshare and the 4000 credit exchanges. All Worldmark owners can open an rci account and take advantage of the 4000 credit exchanges. The difference is that a Travelshare owner gets his rci account paid for saving about $100 a year

Regarding travelshare and housekeeping fees. Remember you get one housekeeping  for every 10000 credits you own,. You could run out and have to buy more if a lot of your reservations turn out to be short stays. So I can see how free housekeeping might be a nice benefit. The question is how much will it cost 

Lets assume all your reservations are weekends (lets say 4000 credits each)  that would work out to about 15 reservations a year Since you  only will have 6 housekeeping credits, you will need to buy 9 more. Depending on the size of the unit it will me more or less but lets assume a 2 bedroom at $80...or $720 a year

Buying from the developer will cost you close to $100000 more than buying from a broker....You tell me; is it worth it?

I assume however that most of the time your employees will use this a week at a time, in which case your housekeeping allocation should be enough

My advice is to run from the salesman and run to one of the several brokers that specialize in Worldmark resales..PM me and Ill send you two that have helped me a lot


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## Rent_Share

IF I DUPLICATED ANY OF RON"S POINTS I APOLOGIZE - I DO NOT READ POSTS FROM MULTI MILLION POINT MEGARENTERS

I am totally new to timeshares in general. - TAKE YOUR TIME THERE IS ABSOLUTELY *NO NEED* TO RUSH

I have a Worldmark resort near me, and I am interested in getting a large number of points/credits for my company where about 14 people would share. NEAR WHICH WM RESORT DO YOU LIVE ?

I've seen where I can get 65k points for about 20k dollars (not sure if that is a good deal, and if not, where can I get better?) from a third party seller, but the WorldMark salesmen (of course) say that it is a huge mistake to get those, and I should buy the points from them for 4 times the price.

They say that:

1- if I have travel share (that I can only get through them) I can exchange 4000 points for last minute travel plus a fee to go anywhere in the RCI network which I get for free if I buy from them (of course, the membership is cheap, so I don't care about that). 

RESALE POINTS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR (4000 POINT) LAST MINUTE RESERVATIONS WITH RCI AND II.* IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRAVELSHARE*. TRAVELSHARE BENEFITS MAY BE CHANGED WITHOUT NOTICE SINCE IT IS NOT PART OF WORLDMARK THE CLUB's BYLAWS BUT A WYNDHAM DEVELOPER SALES PROGRAM. Travelshare does not transfer to a resale buyer.

I have called RCI and verified that this claim is partially true. The fee was higher than I was told, and they said that "hot" properties like Hawaii are NEVER only 4k points...but that this was fairly accurate.

WITH II I BOOKED WESTIN KAANAPALI AT 4000 POINTS, RCI IS 30 (Was 45) DAYS FROM CHECK IN II IS 59 DAYS, THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID HARDLY EVER, NOT NEVER

Is it true that third party points will be treated differently in this scenario? 

2- If I have over 63k points, I don't have to pay housekeeping fees...

CURRENTLY THERE IS AN ELITE PROGRAM 

DIVIDE 63,000 * 1.65 {2.00-.35} $ 103,950 by $ 75 {AVG Housekeeping Fee} = 1,386 EXTRA "CHECK INS" BEYOND 6 a year that you would have to have in order to break even on the premium of buying from the developer vs resale.


If I bought the 65k points from a third party do I still get "platinum elite" status and get those benefits?

NO YOU DO NOT - SO FAR THE ONLY TRURTHFUL STATEMENT RELAYED, however you can but almost 1400 Housekeeping tokens for the difference in price.

I really just want to get enough points that each of my 14-16 employees can take a vacation every other year or so to more than just one location. It feels like, when I talk to the sales guys, I will regret not getting them from the company, but I cant tell what is true and what isn't. 

All I hear is employers are going broke because the government s going to require them to provide basic health care and you are trying to pre pay vacation lodging. . . . .

YOU WILL REGRET SPENDING $ 140,000 for something that is worth 20,000 as soon as the rescission period is over, you will be glad you didn't buy Club Wyndsham Access since for the same $ 140,000 your investment will be zero as soon as the recision period is over

Does anyone on this forum have third party worldgate points, and do you get treated like a second class citizen by the company?

Its *Worldmark*, the only time we are treated as second class citizens is when we agree to go to an owners update and the salesman realizes we are to smart for him/her to make a commission on and begins to belittle what we own with lies pulled out of his ass

What is the best scenario for me? Help!!

RESALE 10 - 20 K Account AND RENT THE EXTRA POINTS AND HOUSEKEEPING TOKENS FROM ANOTHER OWNER TO MAKE SURE THE LEAD TIME AND GENEROUS CANCELATION POLICY WORKS FOR YOUR UNBELIEVABLE PURPOSE


And thanks![/QUOTE]


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## lcml11

wadefromutah said:


> I am totally new to timeshares in general.
> 
> I have a Worldmark resort near me, and I am interested in getting a large number of points/credits for my company where about 14 people would share.
> 
> I've seen where I can get 65k points for about 20k dollars (not sure if that is a good deal, and if not, where can I get better?) from a third party seller, but the worldmark salesmen (of course) say that it is a huge mistake to get those, and I should buy the points from them for 4 times the price.
> 
> They say that:
> 
> 1- if I have travel share (that I can only get through them) I can exchange 4000 points for last minute travel plus a fee to go anywhere in the RCI network which I get for free if I buy from them (of course, the membership is cheap, so I dont care about that).
> 
> I have called RCI and verified that this claim is partially true. The fee was higher than I was told, and they said that "hot" properties like Hawaii are NEVER only 4k points...but that this was fairly accurate.
> 
> Is it true that third party points will be treated differently in this scenario?
> 
> 2- If I have over 63k points, I dont have to pay housekeeping fees...
> 
> If I bought the 65k points from a third party do I still get "platinum elite" status and get those benefits?
> 
> I really just want to get enough points that each of my 14-16 employees can take a vacation every other year or so to more than just one location. It feels like, when I talk to the sales guys, I will regret not getting them from the company, but I cant tell what is true and what isnt.
> 
> Does anyone on this forum have third party worldgate points, and do you get treated like a second class citizen by the company?
> 
> What is the best scenario for me? Help!!
> 
> And thanks!



Step 1:  Reconsider going with Worldmark.  With the recent shift of some former western units from Worldmark to Club Wyndham Plus/Access, Wyndham Club Plus/Access now has a stronger Western presence in addtion to their large East Coast presence.

Step 2:  Reveiw earlier threads on this board on Developer Points v. re-sale points.  

Step 3:  If you decide to go re-sale, Wyndham Club plus/access are going for very great prices on the E-Bay at great resorts and some have real low maintance fee costs.  Review these v. the Worldmark entries on E-Bay.

Step 4:  If you have a block of people as large as you indicated, I am sure Platinum owners might be interested in giving you access to the Wyndham Club Plus/Access system at great rates per thousand point (i.e. as low as 7 or 8 dollars per thousand points) where you keep the upgrade benifits, if they are available, within a 60 day booking window.  They may even toss in some free guest passes.  

Step 5:  Send some of your group to representative samples of both Worldmark, the Club, and Club Wyndham Plus/Accesss resorts to check them out.  If you buy into a Club based model like Worldmark, the Club or Club Wyndham Access, it could get nasty as the resorts continue to age that are in their systems.  This could result in out year maintance cost problems.

Step 6:  Decide if you want a certificate based system or deed based system.

Step 7:  If you go with a deeded based system, if your group does not need Summer bookings, go with the lower maintance fee based resorts.

Step 8:  If your group prefers summer systems go with the resorts in areas they want for the Advanced Reservation Priority or do this in combination with Step 7.  In other words own some for ARP rights and some for low maintance fees.

If you want me to run some numbers for you with the Wyndham Club Plus/Access points needed, send me a privet message with the resorts of interest and I can run the numbers for non-VIP members and VIP Platinum members with the discounts for bookings within 60 days.  Maybe one of the Worldmark members can do the same for you with their system.  Wish you well.  Do not forget to vist some of the resorts in both systems before you jump in.

Another concern with Worldmark, the Club, I do not believe it, but you may want to check out the WMowners site on the DRI rumored takeover of Worldmark by Wyndham.  If this is true, who knows what would happen to Worldmark the Club.


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## DAman

*Questions to ponder*

Several other things to consider in WM:

1. Should the OP have one large account or several 10K to 12 K accounts?

2. OP should consider whether his employees could use bonus time stays(thereby needing less annual credits)

3. OP should consider inventory specials(again needing less annual credits).

4. Does OP know he can rent one-time use credits and HK tokens(again needing fewer annual credits)?


I have a 12k account(since last April). I am happy with WM.  I have used bonus time and inventory specials to stay a WM's Oceanside, Running Y, Windsor, Dolphin's Cove, and Angels Camp. I made my 1st credits reservation for next Christmas at Marina Dunes.

Bonus time and IS are what make WM for my family.  OP really needs to crunch the numbers to see if his projected purchase makes sense.  My take on it is he should start off with fewer credits than he needs and build from there. 

Also no reason whatsoever to purchase from WM.

Just my thoughts on a rainy No. Cal. day.


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## wadefromutah

*good info everyone!*



wadefromutah said:


> Several other things to consider in WM:
> 
> 1. Should the OP have one large account or several 10K to 12 K accounts?
> *
> The smaller accounts would have higher marginal MF, correct? So I lean towards a larger account*
> 
> 2. OP should consider whether his employees could use bonus time stays(thereby needing less annual credits)
> 
> *The idea was that I would give them enough for 1 trip every other year, but then let them use bonus time (where you pay 40-50 dollars per night, right?) for any other trip they wanted to take in between.*
> 
> 3. OP should consider inventory specials(again needing less annual credits).
> 
> *I did not know they had those. Good to know.*
> 
> 4. Does OP know he can rent one-time use credits and HK tokens(again needing fewer annual credits)?
> 
> *Yes (Also, I am OP? Owner "P"? Other Person?) I did...and I agree that it is totally worth it not to pay full price JUST to get the HK tokens...*
> 
> 
> I have a 12k account(since last April). I am happy with WM.  I have used bonus time and inventory specials to stay a WM's Oceanside, Running Y, Windsor, Dolphin's Cove, and Angels Camp. I made my 1st credits reservation for next Christmas at Marina Dunes.
> 
> Bonus time and IS are what make WM for my family.  OP really needs to crunch the numbers to see if his projected purchase makes sense.  My take on it is he should start off with fewer credits than he needs and build from there.
> 
> Also no reason whatsoever to purchase from WM.
> 
> Just my thoughts on a rainy No. Cal. day.



So you raise some good points...in fact, with 14 people, I would only need 28k points in order to give them 2k per year which would add up to 4k every other year...so I could do that. 

My biggest worry was that the 4k per week was some sort of exclusive benefit if you bought from WM (clearly not, I have learned)...and that people would really need more points than that per year.


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## rhonda

wadefromutah said:


> So you raise some good points...in fact, with 14 people, I would only need 28k points in order to give them 2k per year which would add up to 4k every other year...so I could do that.
> 
> My biggest worry was that the 4k per week was some sort of exclusive benefit if you bought from WM (clearly not, I have learned)...and that people would really need more points than that per year.


Bonus time for guests (any named individual other than the owner) may only be booked 5 days from travel.  The other cash rate programs (Inventory Specials, Monday/Holiday Madness, FAX time, etc) have more generous windows.

The reservations using 4k WM Credits per week are only for exchanges booked through RCI Weeks inside 45-days from travel.  Don't expect to use these to trade back into either Worldmark or Wyndham properties.  In fact, the work of getting these reservations will burn up quite a bit of your employee's free time ... or perhaps even the time they were s'posed to be _working_.  Doubt that ...?  Just ask TUGGERS how often they might sneak a few moments running searches on RCI at various points in the day/night ....


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## 55plus

*Check eBay before you buy from a developer...*

Checkout eBay. Enter "Worldmark timeshares" and search. You'll save a lot of money, trust me...


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## presley

There are many highly esteemed WM resellers who will tell you the truth and the good and bad of buying through them vs. buying from WM.  Travelshare will cost you more in annual dues than not having it and from any math I've seen, it ends up costing more than it is worth.  

I recommend contacting some of these (there are more):
wmcredits.net - my personal favorite as both a buyer and seller
timeshareliquidationservice.com
besttimeshare.net
timeshareangels.com


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## Rent_Share

wadefromutah said:


> So you raise some good points...in fact, with 14 people, I would only need 28k points in order to give them 2k per year which would add up to 4k every other year...so I could do that.
> 
> My biggest worry was that the 4k per week was some sort of exclusive benefit if you bought from WM (clearly not, I have learned)...and that people would really need more points than that per year.


 
Although not exclusive to developer sales, it is really a way of booking last minute cancellations, so it cannot be depend on for regular travel unless the person/family has no work or school commitments to work around


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## DAman

wadefromutah said:


> So you raise some good points...in fact, with 14 people, I would only need 28k points in order to give them 2k per year which would add up to 4k every other year...so I could do that.
> 
> My biggest worry was that the 4k per week was some sort of exclusive benefit if you bought from WM (clearly not, I have learned)...and that people would really need more points than that per year.



OP=Original Poster

As others have posted the 4K amount may not be realistic due to booking at 45/60 days out in RCI/II.  It is easier to do if the people traveling are not bound by school schedules or can travel at the absolute last minute(book Wednesday then travel Saturday).

You can rent credits *and HK tokens* from others to add to your account.  To rent a HK token you must rent at least 5K credits.  

You don't need your account too full of annual credits or then you would have to be a seller-unless you think you would personally use the excess credits for your own travel.

Depending on the size of unit required and season of travel, for *most* places in WM you can get a week in a one bedroom unit for 8k credits(or less in off season).


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## PassionForTravel

No one else has mentioned it. To out everything about worldmark go to wmowners.com. Lots of people who are happy to share there knowledge and are passionate about the club.


Ian


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## LLW

lcml11 said:


> Step 1:  Reconsider going with Worldmark.  With the recent shift of some former western units from Worldmark to Club Wyndham Plus/Access, Wyndham Club Plus/Access now has a stronger Western presence in addtion to their large East Coast presence.
> .............
> Another concern with Worldmark, the Club, I do not believe it, but you may want to check out the WMowners site on the DRI rumored takeover of Worldmark by Wyndham.  If this is true, who knows what would happen to Worldmark the Club.



I disagree. The units that went from WM to CW are the underutilized units in WM (even Anaheim often has plenty of availability because of high credit values). It's good that WM has gotten rid of them.

I think we have agreed that DRI is not going to take over WbW - it was just a lie by DRI salemen. Besides, WbW is not WM - it's just Wyn. How can WbW do better than WM if Wyn is taken over by DRI??


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## LLW

rhonda said:


> Bonus time for guests (any named individual other than the owner) may only be booked 5 days from travel.  The other cash rate programs (Inventory Specials, Monday/Holiday Madness, FAX time, etc) have more generous windows.
> 
> The reservations using 4k WM Credits per week are only for exchanges booked through RCI Weeks inside 45-days from travel.  Don't expect to use these to trade back into either Worldmark or Wyndham properties.  In fact, the work of getting these reservations will burn up quite a bit of your employee's free time ... or perhaps even the time they were s'posed to be _working_.  Doubt that ...?  Just ask TUGGERS how often they might sneak a few moments running searches on RCI at various points in the day/night ....



I agree with Rhonda. The 4K RCI weeks are going to take your vacationers time to search. Also, if your business is such that a certain number of employees have to provide coverage all the time, or if the employees have young school age children and have to go by the school calendars, the last minute-4 K weeks would not be a good fit. Firstly, they wouldn't know when to go on vacation until within the last 45 days (often just days before); Secondly, when there is availability within 45 days, it's often gone within hours or minutes because everybody is looking for the good deals all the time.

One other thing: the salesmen would tell you that RCI is free for TravelShare members (while you have to pay $2 per credit from them whereas resale goes for about 35 cents if you pay cash), but they would not tell you that there is a larger TravelShare dues, that you would have to pay, out of which the RCI dues are paid. I think you know not to believe in most of the things that the Salesmen told you.

I agree wish Passion for Travel that www.wmowners.com/forum is where many knowledgeable, and passionate WM owners are. They are very generous with their time and honest with answering questions from potential WM buyers.


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## ChrisandBeth

Travel share benefits can be cancelled or amended by Wyndham at any time. Travel share accounts have higher maintence fees. RCI and II don't care if you are travel share or not. As Wyndham owns RCI it is possible they will try and make it harder for a non travel share account to trade or change some rules but many of us believe II is the superior exchange company. And as far as access to the Worldmark resorts go there is no difference between resale and developer credits


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## rleigh

It sounds like your original goal is providing a vacation place close by that is a Worldmark property. If that is the case, I would keep that in focus. I agree with others saying that you or your employees searching and doing exchanges for them could get complex and take up time. 

Many people buy into WM just for their properties alone, and not for the exchanges. Although it's a nice bonus should you decide to take advantage of it. (WM is a great trader. Countless owners will attest to successful exchanges.) I've owned WM since 2006 and haven't exchanged yet, but just the possibility of doing so has led me to spend way too much time at the RCI site! 

"Word on the street" is there is no reason to buy retail from developer. And I agree with those who say go to wmowners.com for more info. 

Happy researching! 

///


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## sue1947

Another vote for wmowners.com as the best source of info on Worldmark. 

The key here is which resort you want to use.  You can use your credits at any resort in the system, but if you are focused on the one near you, then it would help to know how difficult it is to book.  There are some that book up a year in advance (which means you would need to use credits) and others that aren't used as much.  Some of the latter are regularly on Inventory special which is a cash option available for under utilized resorts at 60 days out.  i.e. you would not need as many credits.  

Sue


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## easyrider

14 employees in a 2 bedroom wm unit = at least 140,000 points
in a 1 bedroom unit = 112,000 points

Resale wm contracts no longer include wm affiliated resorts so it cuts out wm south pacific and wyndham.

The rci instant exchange is easy for really nice mexico resorts. Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach is one of the exchanges in Cabo that is really nice.

I like multiple 7k accounts. This give you a good point cost , housekeeping token and the ability to use bonus multiple bonus times. All points can be transfered into your other accounts for larger reservations.

Its easy to sell a 6k or 7k account verus a large account.

Bill


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## Rent_Share

Personal Opinion REDACTED


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## ronparise

Rent_Share said:


> Buying timeshares for your employees to vacation as a benifit is a road to business failure



and I wonder why


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## sue1947

If you are in Utah (from your user name) then WM makes a lot of sense.  You would be able to use Inventory specials in drive to locations frequently.  The Utah resorts, except Midway, are frequently on the IS list.  IS allows you to rent at .052 cents per credit with a minimum of $40 per night.  That is the same rate as bonus time.  Check www.worldmarktheclub.com and click on the Inventory special list to see what is available for Dec, Jan and Feb.  IS allows you to book 60 days in advance and make as many as you want.  This is ideal for your purposes.  Note, that the resorts available change each year and are only announced 2 months out but if you look at past history, you can get an idea of what might be available in the future.  IS is for under utilized times and places so you should not count on this being an option for school holidays.  But I'm also surprised that Wolf Ck is on it for ski season so who knows.  

Bonus time:  you can only have 1 bonus time reservation at a time and are limited on the number of weekend reservations per quarter so you may run into scheduling issues here.  Use bonus time as a bonus; don't count on it being there.  BT is for whatever is available 14 days out.  Weekends are not as likely to be there.  Cost is .052/credit (this has been steadily increasing year by year) so the $40-55 rate you quote is a midweek one.  Weekends are likely more than that.  www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts has the credit values for each resort and you can calculate for yourself.   Most people that own more than one account (and pay the extra maintenance fees) do so to be able to book additional bonus time reservations.  

I would keep it simple and start with a small account and try it out.  Educate your employees on using the system so they understand what is available and when so they have reasonable expectation, but then have one person who can make the reservations.  You can rent in additional credits (see www.wmowners.com for a thread on renting credits as well as a list of known reputable renters and sellers) as needed.  Once you see how many credits you need, you can always buy another account and merge the two together.   

Once things are set up and running smoothly, exchanging might be an option, but I would keep that to setting up an ongoing request rather than having an employee spending lots of time searching.  Note that with WM, you can have an account with either II (Interval International) or RCI with II being cheaper.  The other, smaller systems are also an option, but do not have an official relationship with WM.  

Again, your best source of answers to how to use the system is at www.wmowners.com.  You will get answers from actual WM owners.  Here on tug, you will get answers from some WM owners, but more likely Wyndham owners who think, but don't really, know anything about WM.  

Sue


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## Rent_Share

sue1947 said:


> . Here on tug, you will get answers from some WM owners, but more likely Wyndham owners who think, but don't really, know anything about WM.
> 
> Sue


 
Isn't the same, they are both Wyndham


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