# Grand Tour of the West



## janroel (Sep 27, 2007)

Hello

We (my wife and me) live in Belgium and next year (April-May) we plan a 'grand tour of the west'.

We booked a fly and drive. with the next stops. Any suggestions? Are things I should know? It will be my first visit to the States.

Thank you very much for jour comments !

Jan-Roel

day 1   SF
2   SF
3   SF- Santa Maria
4   Santa Maria - LA
5   LA
6   LA - Palm Springs
7   Palm Springs - Flagstaff
8   Flagstaff - Mesa Verde
9   Mesa Verde - Moab
10   Moab - Vernal
11   Vernal - Yellowstone
12   Yellowstone
13   Yellowstone - Salt Lake City
14   Salt Lake City - Capitol Reef
15   Capitol Reef - Bryce
16   Bryce - Zion
17   Zion - Las Vegas
18   Las Vegas
19   Las Vegas -  Death Valley
20   DV - Yosemite
21   Yosemite - SF
22   SF


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## Werner (Sep 27, 2007)

Did you leave out the Grand Canyon on purpose?  Since you will be on both the north and south sides of the canyon on your trip the Canyon should be seen.  I would pick the north rim since It is less crowded and just as spectacular.  The National Park has a places to stay right at the north rim.  The view from the tip of Bright Angle Point is an experience not too be missed.  The canyon view is nearly 360 deg.  

On your way to Yellowstone you will pass through Teton National Park.  A short walk into one of the side canyons would be a great experience.  

Death Valley is more than just Badwater.  The mountains around the valley are beautiful.  Take a  short hike in Mosaic Canyon, a narrow, colorful slot canyon.  On the way out toward Yosemite, take Wildrose Road and climb to Auguerberry Point, a far better overview of Death Valley than the Dante's View overlook on the other side of the valley.  We spent 4 or 5 days there in February and still didn't see it all.

On your way to Flagstaff you might swing down to Sedona, the ultimate "red rock" experience.  Then drive through Oak Creek Canyon to Flagstaff.


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## janroel (Sep 27, 2007)

This pdf (in Dutch) gives more information about the tour. If I am correct we pass the Grand Canyon day eight.  

http://www.connections.be/pdf/selfdrive/grandtourofthewest_nl.pdf

I know the whole trip is very tight planned, but that's how it was. 

I also checked the hotels on tripadvisor.com. Well, if I read those comments.... It looks like we will have to sleep in stables.


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## ricoba (Sep 27, 2007)

That sounds like a great trip! 

You will be doing lots and lots of driving, so you will see a lot of the open west.  Unfortunately though most interstates are devoid of real scenic beauty.  For that many times you have to get off the interstate and travel the back roads or state highways.  But still you are going to see a lot of things that you won't see back home! 

Welcome to the USA, just don't be too hard on our beer though, Belgium beer is far superior to most US brands!


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## Werner (Sep 27, 2007)

Yes, definitely Bring Your Own Beer!


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## kwilson (Sep 27, 2007)

When driving from SF to Santa Maria be sure to take the coastal route, US-1.
It is spectacular!
And I also say you MUST see the Grand Canyon.


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## sml2181 (Sep 27, 2007)

Hi Jan-Roel,

I am from the Netherlands and I am planning a trip to the West for my friends as well.

In fact - this is exactly the same trip that my friends want to do - I asked about suggestions in another thread as well since we were asked to join them - we decided we will pass as we truly want to see everything but not in just 1 trip.

One of the disadvantages you'll have booking this whole trip with a travel agent is indeed that the hotels seems to be... . But since you have booked it already - just enjoy it and I am sure you will be fine.

I just asked around on this board and got great advice - it was not so long ago and you should be able to find it. 

Enjoy your trip though and maybe you will meet my friends along the way! 
(although they did not exactly book the same trip as they asked me to look at alternatives for the hotels.)


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## janroel (Sep 27, 2007)

Yes of course !! I'll bring my Duvel, Grimbergen and Leffe. If these pass customs ! Anyone interested, haha?

Thank you very much for the advice !


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## bobh (Oct 1, 2007)

*Grand Canyon*

I noticed that you have 3 days in Las Vegas.  There are flights & tours to the Grand Canyon South Rim that are available from Las Vegas if you want to sacrifice a day Las Vegas. It would be worth considering. I am sure you can find information but here is a link to one of them.

http://www.scenic.com/saws1gc_deluxe.htm


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## saltmaier (Oct 1, 2007)

*PNW*

Why are you leaving out the coasts of Washington and Oregon?:whoopie: The San Juan Islands and Cannon Beach are magnificent and deserve a place in the Grand Tour


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## DanM (Oct 1, 2007)

*Lots of driving*

This is a very ambitious trip for the time available. I don't know if the planners really understand the distances. Some days you may be driving to a special place like Mesa Verde or Bryce and not even have time to explore them properly.

Not to throw cold water on the trip, I am sure the distances themselves will be amazing if you've never been to the West before, but you should talk to the organizers about early morning starts and late evening departures to make sure your day time isn't all spent on the road. It might be exhausting, but worth it.


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## DeniseM (Oct 1, 2007)

If it were me, I would cut out half the stops and spend at least two nights in each place.  You are going to spend far more time driving, than sight-seeing.  You are going to have to spend so much time getting to each destination, that you will have little or no time at your one night stops to do or see anything. I think you will regret just blowing through some beautiful areas with no time to stop and explore, and get sick and tired of driving long distances.


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## Bob P (Oct 2, 2007)

Absolutely no reason to stop in Santa Maria, nothing but an overgrown truck stop. Try to go another 20 miles to Solvang and the Santa Ynez Valley or go another 50 miles an stay in Santa Barbara.  You should have a wonderful trip, as there is much to see on your route,  Enjoy.  Bob


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## John Cummings (Oct 2, 2007)

I definitely agree with Bob on Santa Maria. We have traveled up and down the coast from Southern California to the San Francisco Bay area many many times. We always stop for the night at Solvang. Santa Barbara is also a good choice though we prefer stopping at Solvang.

I would try to squeeze in a couple of days in San Diego. It is much nicer than Los Angeles.


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## Hoc (Oct 2, 2007)

Personally, on the trip from SF to LA, I might spend a day in Carmel/Monterey first, and take a tour of Hearst Castle the next day on the trip from Carmel down to LA.  I notice that you are stopping in Flagstaff, so my presumption is that you are doing that to see the Grand Canyon.  If not, then take the advice of the others above and see it.


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## vetteguy (Oct 2, 2007)

Hello, fellow Belgian!
As others said, it's a lot of driving you'll do. Have you booked a fly&drive or are hotels also already booked with Connections.be? My suggestion if it's not to late, is just book the airline tickets and car rental with the TA(connections)and make yourself an itinerary at your own path(I could give you some of my itineraries as suggestions).
We did this year a tour of the West, but we stayed as DeniseM suggested at least 2 nights at each place, sometimes 3(at Moab), this was perfect. No ruch, time to make some great hiking.


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## Hoc (Oct 2, 2007)

vetteguy said:


> My suggestion if it's not to late, is just book the airline tickets and car rental with the TA(connections)and make yourself an itinerary at your own path(I could give you some of my itineraries as suggestions).



That's actually a really good idea (except that you should reserve your place in San Francisco, since you will be too exhausted to look for a place when you get there).  If you don't already belong to the American Automobile Association, you can join and go to their club in San Francisco on your first day.  They will give you what is called a "trip tick" which is a map of your route, including a booklet with more detailed maps of each part of it.  They can give you suggestions on where to stop, etc.  They will also give you a booklet of each state and area that has recommendations and ratings on accommodations, restaurants, and recommendations regarding sightseeing.  These are all free.  Then, you will find that there are usually decent places to stay that are available all the way along your route, and you can stop when you want, where you want.  

A much better way to travel than, for example, being in Vegas at 3 pm and exhausted, not wanting to drive that day, but needing to get to Flagstaff by nighttime because that is where your next prepaid motel room is located.


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## PStreet1 (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm a bit confused by your itinerary.  I see that you have driven to Flagstaff from Palm Springs (390 miles--7 or 8 hours depending on food/fuel stops. The next day you are driving to Mesa Verde.  There are two problems here.  
1)  Flagstaff could be your gateway to the Grand Canyon--which would take a day to drive to and see and return to Flagstaff, which you apparently aren't doing.  Flagstaff to Grand Canyon is 80 miles; it will take two hours.  Flagstaff is surrounded by Native American ruins, which you apparently aren't seeing.  I don't know why you would drive to Flagstaff.  It definitely isn't possible to catch more than a fleeting glimpse of the Grand Canyon and make it to Mesa Verde that night; I'm not sure it's possible to catch a fleeting glimpse.  From Flagstaff to the entrance of Mesa Verde is 280 miles if you take the road from Grand Canyon to Mesa Verde, it will take no less than 6 hours, and you'll probably need to stop for food/fuel somewhere.
     You could, as an alternative, drive from Palm Springs to Grand Canyon and stay overnight there.  It's 493 miles from Palm Springs to Grand Canyon.  You would, again, need reservations long in advance; most people make their reservations a year in advance.  At least you would be "in place" to take a quick look at the canyon before heading out to Mesa Verde.
2)  You have scheduled a night at Mesa Verde.  There are some additional problems here.  The first is that it is not easy to secure lodging in Mesa Verde National Park; you need the reservations long in advance; a year in advance is not unusual.  The second is that Mesa Verde is a very large park.  To see even one cliff dwelling, you will need several hours.  The cliff dwellings are not located right at the entrance to the park; you'll have to drive into the park for 20 miles.  Then you'll need several hours there to get to EVEN ONE of the dwellings, see it and get back.  The better cliff dwellings to see require reservations to be part of a ranger-led group to go to them; you can't go unless you are part of the ranger-led group.  By the time you arrive, it is highly unlikely you can get a reservation for anything that day--if you glimpse the Grand Canyon on the way to Mesa Verde, it will be after the park closes when you arrive there, so you won't even have reservations for the next day.  You could get up early and be among the first in line for the tickets the next day, but your schedule shows you are leaving that day and heading for somewhere else.  (If it's already too late to get reservations in Mesa Verde, you could stay at Durango, Colorado, but it's 55 miles from Durango to the ruins, so again, getting there to get early morning tickets would require starting very early.)

I think there is another problem with the route.  Death Valley to Yosemite to San Francisco requires the use of Tioga pass--I think.  If that's so, you simply may not be able to do it.  The pass didn't open until May 11th this year; because of the heavy snow pack, it often opens late.

As you look at seeing the American West, you have similar problems all along your route.  Many of the spots you are driving through are very remote:  no gas stations, no restaurants, no hotels.  You can't plan to just stop when you want to.  The places you are planning on driving by are very beautiful (and most are large parks that would require several hours to just drive through, not stopping).  It looks as though you haven't allowed time to even drive through the places you have scheduled.

I think you need to look at the time required at each of the attractions, then see whether being there overnight is required, then look at the driving distance.  For example, the traffic in Yellowstone park would probably prevent you from being able to simply drive around the park with a couple of stops for mud volcanoes, gysers, etc., in one day.  Yellowstone requires two days of sightseeing (full days on ranger-led walks) to even hit the highlights.

You're going to need to get reservations in the National Parks NOW if you intend to stay in them, and staying in the parks is definitely the way to maximize the time you have allowed.  You are, I think, going to discover that you're going to have to cut down on the number of attractions if you are to hope to see them.


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## Red Rox (Oct 7, 2007)

I don't want to spoil your plans, but this trip is insane! As previously mentioned by other responders, you will be spending all of your time in your car or in bed. You have not allowed youself any time to see the places that you're spending all of your time getting to! I strongly urge you to reconsider your itinerary. For every destination that you want to see, you've got to allow yourself a full day there at a minimum. You can't possibly have an enjoyable trip with all that you're trying to do!


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## applegirl (Oct 8, 2007)

I couldn't agree more about this itinerary being completely not feasible. You need to cut your destinations in half or you will be very exhausted and not seen much, just the pavement and your bed. The Grand Canyon is probably the most unforgettable stop not to be missed. You should spend at least half a day at the canyon, have lunch, etc.

If you stay the night near the canyon, you have two good choices if staying AT the canyon is out of the question (it's very expensive and not necessary). You can stay in Tusayan, about 10 minutes from park entrance (on Hwy 64) or you can stay in Williams, a cute town about 45 minutes from the park entrance on Interstate 40.  Lots of choices so the competition brings down the price.

Good luck in your planning, and PLEASE reconsider your overly ambitious trip. I want you to enjoy your time here, not just be totally exhausted. Most international tourists underestimate the enormity of this country and driving times!


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## janroel (Oct 8, 2007)

Thank you very much for your comments and your worries. But I'm afraid it's already too late. We already payed for this trip. It's a package deal: flight, car and accommodations are included. And it was not too expensive. Actually: the price was correct.

The travel agency that sells this trip (www.connections.be) has a very good reputation over here in Belgium. I believe they buy this trip in America and sell in Belgium. They told us it is sold everywhere.

Okay, it will be very, very busy. But we also want to see as much as possible, even if we can only catch a glimpse of things. We will have to make the best out of it.


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## bugzapper (Oct 9, 2007)

*Busy Trip*

Janroel,

Have fun on your vacation! I've taken similar trips throughout the west and, yes, you will be seeing a lot in a very short time. It's really not so very different from we North Americans who do three week tours of Europe--nine countries in 21 days--or something of the sort. When you only have a day to visit Paris, you know you're only seeing a small part of what the city has to offer! People who take trips like this do so because they figure it is the only opportunity they will ever have to see a place, so they might as well see all the highlights.

You'll be able to see a lot of what the west has to offer--but to truly experience the west, you'll have to take a more leisurely vacation.


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 11, 2007)

I've lived in California over 40 years, visited 90% of the places on your itinerary, and agree with all of the previous posts warning that your plans are far too ambitious.

You should pay special heed to your Day 20 (Death Valley to Yosemite).  The only direct road between these two places goes through Tioga Pass which is almost always 2-3 meters deep in snow in early May.  The detour is hundreds of kilometers.


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## beejaybeeohio (Oct 11, 2007)

*What is your obligation?*

Can you skip parts of your itinerary, losing the hotel accomodations, and make your own reservations for places you wish to linger longer and then catch up to your prepaid itinerary?

In other words, can you take charge of your trip once you are here, doing the driving and deciding that it is probably not very pleasant to drive, drive, drive, take a peek at a park, spend the nite and drive, drive, drive, if you adjust the itinerary, lose a little bit of money by not using the prepaid hotels, and spendi a little more on hotels you reserve yourself.

Yes, we Americans "do" Europe in roughly the same timeframe, but we are usually on fully guided bus tours where we don't have the stress of getting places ourselves.

In July we drove from western Switzerland to south of Salzburg in a day.  The scenic route we chose was supposed to be an 8.25 hour drive per Mapquest and it turned out to be 12.5!  Luckily we were staying a week at the timeshare in Austria and could take some time to relax before getting back in the car to sightsee.


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## gmarine (Oct 11, 2007)

I have to agree with the majority of posters. Your itinerary is going to have you spending very little time seeing anything and alot of time driving. 

Your day 13 drive from Yellowstone to SLC is 7-8 hours minimum, further if you are leaving from northern Yellowstone areas such as Mammoth or Canyon. In addition some Yellowstone roads are still closed in late April-early May.

Yellowstone is enormous. Spending one day there will afford you little time to see much of the park.

The drive from Palm springs to Flagstaff is around 6 hours as well. I would seriously consider changing your trip. You should check to see what the change/cancellation policy is for this trip. It is far too ambitious an itinerary. 

Good luck.


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## Blues (Oct 11, 2007)

vacationtime1 said:


> You should pay special heed to your Day 20 (Death Valley to Yosemite).  The only direct road between these two places goes through Tioga Pass which is almost always 2-3 meters deep in snow in early May.  The detour is hundreds of kilometers.



Yes, in early May, it's a virtual guarantee that Tioga Pass will be closed.  The only feasible route will be south on US395 to Inyokern, west to Bakersfield, north to Fresno, then north on CA41 to approach Yosemite from the southern entrance.  This is a very long drive, though.  I'd guess (and it's only a guess) that it would be at least 300 miles / 500 km; and perhaps further.  Doable in a day, but it's a pretty long day.

Count me as another Californian that thinks this trip is too ambitious by far.


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## susieq (Oct 11, 2007)

janroel,

Your trip is very ambitious ~ but I'm sure you'll both have a wonderful time. Think of it as an overview ~ then you'll just have to come back and visit whatever makes the biggest impression on you!!   Checking over the tour site, I couldn't believe the good deal you got!  Enjoy yourselves, take lots of pictures, and come back soon, ya'hear!!  

Sue


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## John Cummings (Oct 12, 2007)

I have driven just about every route you are planning on except for Yellowstone. I can pretty well guarantee you that the Tioga Pass ( Eastern entrance to Yosemite will be closed due to snow. The Tioga Pass reaches an elevation of 10,000 feet. It usually doesn't open until June at the earliest. The alternate route from Death Valley - Barstow - Bakersfield - Fresno - Yosemite is 765 km ( 478 miles ) vs 486 km ( 304 miles ) via Tioga Pass. Both distances are from Death Valley to Yosemite Village. The alternate route is also pretty boring. The Tioga Pass route is pretty scenic but that is academic if the pass is closed.


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## hjp (Oct 14, 2007)

*Distances will be a problem*

Driving from Flagstaff to Mesa Verde and from Mesa Verde the following day will not allow  sufficient time to see Mesa Verde.  Ditto for the drive from Mesa Verde to Moab and on to Vernal:  you'll simply not have enough time to explore the red rock country around Moab.

I'm not sure how much mountain scenery you want to see.  The drive from Moab to Vernal is quite stark.  From Mesa Verde, the drive over the "million dollar highway", from Durango to Ouray is one of my favorite.

The enormity, vastness, variety and stark beauty of the west will amaze you and by all means see the Grand Canyon, preferably the north rim.

I'd also be inclined to bypass Capitol Reef, allowing more time to explore Bryce and Zions, the latter being my favorite.  In fact, I prefer Lake Powell to Capitol Reef.

Personally, unless you like to gamble, I'd bypass Las Vegas.  It is one of my least favorite cities in the U.S.  I'd far rather spend my time seeing the west, there is so much of it to see and enjoy.


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## John Cummings (Oct 14, 2007)

I beg to differ on Las Vegas. It doesn't matter whether you gamble or not. Las Vegas is spectacular and there is no other place like it on the face of the earth. You will see man made splendor at its best. Even if you only take a few hours to drive down the strip, it is well worth it.


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## taffy19 (Oct 14, 2007)

janroel said:


> Hello
> 
> We (my wife and me) live in Belgium and next year (April-May) we plan a 'grand tour of the west'.
> 
> ...


Someone here mentioned the American Automobile Association (AAA).  That is a great suggestion as they will map the best tour for you for the time you have available.  If I were you, I would have a look at this website here as it may save you time and money.

If you cannot or don't want to change your schedule, drive safely and enjoy your trip!


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## DaveNV (Apr 13, 2009)

_[*This thread was dug out of moth balls by a spammer - the post has been removed and the posted banned. - DeniseM Moderator]_


Umm, this thread is two years old.  Your comments may be a bit too late, I'm afraid.  Their vacation was last year.   

Dave


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## Red Rox (Apr 14, 2009)

It's actually a fair look at the (rip off) Skywalk and grand canyon west. But I have to wonder what motivated rocha to post such a reply to an old thread...


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