# MVC cost per night over the long term?



## GoodTimes (Sep 15, 2020)

We are trying to budget for our long-term vacation needs.   With 2 young children 4/8 - and living in Virginia - MVC looks like a good option.

Does anyone have a good estimate of what to expect in today's dollars - buying resale and MFs?  Would $250 - $350 per night be a reasonable estimate for a 2br?  We may rent it out occasionally but don't want MVC ownership to become a side business.  Thanks!


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## vacationtime1 (Sep 15, 2020)

Maintenance fees will be less than $250-$350/night (except in Hawaii).  The question will be the capital (buy-in) cost -- and how you amortize it for cost purposes.

A resale week almost anywhere will keep the overall cost within your proposed budget; a points purchase, even on the secondary market, probably will not.  If you were to pay $30K for points (which I do not recommend), it will be impossible to spread out this cost and stay within your parameters.


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## Dean (Sep 15, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> We are trying to budget for our long-term vacation needs.   With 2 young children 4/8 - and living in Virginia - MVC looks like a good option.
> 
> Does anyone have a good estimate of what to expect in today's dollars - buying resale and MFs?  Would $250 - $350 per night be a reasonable estimate for a 2br?  We may rent it out occasionally but don't want MVC ownership to become a side business.  Thanks!


Yearly most weeks options should get you near the $250 per week even with ancillary costs.  Points will be more at the higher end of your estimate.  There are cheaper ways to travel but I think a well planned MVC purchase can be a great value for the right family.  My view of the situation where timeshare ownership can make sense is if one can plan a year or more in advance, pay cash, is OK without the hotel extras like daily housekeeping, and values space including a kitchen.  Specific to MVC you have to want to go to the locations that are included as part of the timeshare system.  If MVC still makes sense then you have to decide the volume you need, how and where you want to travel.  Do you need points or is a week with or without exchanging best for that person.  Just spend a few months getting thoroughly educated and the answers will become fairly clear.  Read including the stickies above and ask questions.  The more information you give us, the better recommendations we can make.


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## ljmiii (Sep 15, 2020)

If there is someplace you want to stay year after year then buying a MVC resale week at that location would be an inexpensive way to go. For example, the MFs for a week at Royal Palms (our favorite Orlando MVC resort) are $1487/yr (or $212/day). You can find MVC MFs in a sticky thread in this forum, on https://vacationpointexchange.com/ under 'Historical MFs', and even on Redweek (if you are careful).

Depending on location you might do better to buy a 3BR. While your kids are still young sharing a bedroom isn't a big deal but our experience has been that kids on vacation become a grandparent magnet. And now that they have almost left the nest we've done a couple of vacations with each bringing a guest. At the Imperial Palms (Royal Palm's sister 3BR resort) MFs are $1707 (or $243/day). Also, on those years you want to rent the unit a 3BR is more likely to hold value - 2BR timeshares are comparatively very common.

Left unsaid is the issue of trading your MVC week via Interval International. We have found II to be completely worthless when constrained by both school calendar and location but others swear by it.

As others have said above, buying points...even on the resale market...will be more expensive. They do provide much greater flexibility...but that doesn't seem to be your primary consideration.


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## BJRSanDiego (Sep 15, 2020)

My own cost-per-night is lower (I own 4 Marriotts).  That is because they are lock-offs and I split them and exchange them.  I have been successful in exchanging them for 1 and 2 BR units and pay the $59 upcharge to get a BR size upgrade.  Also, I try to make use of buying Getaways and using Accommodation certificates.  Getaways and A/Cs are a way to stretch your budget.

I am retired though so that makes it easy for me to travel on shoulder seasons.  Also, I enjoy enjoy "drive-to" vacations and I'm located in an area where I am a day's drive (or less) from about a half dozen timeshare areas.


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## rthib (Sep 15, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> We are trying to budget for our long-term vacation needs.   With 2 young children 4/8 - and living in Virginia - MVC looks like a good option.
> 
> Does anyone have a good estimate of what to expect in today's dollars - buying resale and MFs?  Would $250 - $350 per night be a reasonable estimate for a 2br?  We may rent it out occasionally but don't want MVC ownership to become a side business.  Thanks!


Depends are where you want to go and when you want to go.
Folks who have lots of success are ones who have lots of success are ones who can travel at off times.
Remember you are going to be competing with everyone else if you can only travel during school breaks.

Also, as you figure out costs don't forget to include initial cost and also lost opportunity costs.

For instance, if you initial cost was $30,000 during the recent gift card promotion you could have bought $37,000 worth of gift cards for that amount.
Even without that At $300/night that's 100 nights worth of stays or 14 years.
Now if you can work the lock-off., getaway, trade up, cheap airfare angle timeshares can work but it take flexibility.

For me it was not about savings but knowing I could go where I wanted (where I bought) for the next 30+ years. The fact that I have been able to do much more is just a bonus.


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## dansimms (Sep 15, 2020)

The Interval International 'Getaways', will be another option at or below your budget, if you can be flexible in considering non-Marriott Vacation Clubs. Some are considerably less than your budget. You are not limited to just 1 per year either.


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## MICROZE (Sep 15, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> We are trying to budget for our long-term vacation needs.   With 2 young children 4/8 - and living in Virginia - MVC looks like a good option.
> 
> Does anyone have a good estimate of what to expect in today's dollars - buying resale and MFs?  Would $250 - $350 per night be a reasonable estimate for a 2br?  We may rent it out occasionally but don't want MVC ownership to become a side business.  Thanks!


*Marriott: *We own Every-Year 2BR Lock-Off Units at Marriott Ko'Olina + Marriott Shadow Ridge + DCP-Points.
*Vistana: *We also own multiple 2BR Lock-Off Units at Westin Lagunamar [EOY] + Westin Kierland [Every-Year] + Aventuras-Points.

We find doing the following is the best way to lower our Cost/Night.

Lock-Off 2BR into Studio + 1BR
Deposit 2-Weeks [Studio + 1BR] with Interval
Exchange into 2BR-Units with Interval by paying a Size-Upgrade + E-Plus-Fee
Have done this for 12+ years and have always had success exchanging into 2BR/3BR/4BR units via Interval.

Following is a snippet from my XLS that I use to track costs. It is accurate down to the last cent. Includes the following:

Maintenance-Fees
Club-Dues [Marriott/VIstana]
Lock-Off Fees [Zero]
Interval Membership-Fees [Marriott/Vistana: Zero]
Interval Platinum-Fees [Marriott: 50%-Off]
Exchange-Fees [Marriott: M-M-Zero]
Size-Upgrade Fees
E-Plus [Marriott: Zero]
*



Notes*

*7-Nights: *Internal-Exchanges within MVCI Ko'Olina [$363/Night] is much more expensive than Shadow-Ridge [$237/Night] as Hawaii-MF are higher.
*14-Nights: *Exchanging Marriott-Units [MKO: $197/Night] [MRD: $134/Night] via Interval is good value [Lower Cost/Night] after including all Interval-Fees
2 x Weeks For 1
No Exchange Fees: M-M
Unlimited Changes: M-M [No need for E-Plus]
Size-Upgrade-Fees: $177 [$59 x 3] [Studio -> 2BR + 1BR -> 2BR]

Vistana-Units have much lower MF but exchanging via Interval is expensive due to higher Interval-fees.
DCP-Points have a higher Per-Night cost.
The above does not include amortizing upfront purchase cost.
*Summary: *We exchange all of our weeks [Marriott + Vistana] via Interval which averages ~$165/Night in a 2BR/3BR-Unit [Mostly Marriott/Westin/Hyatt].
Some locations we have visited include Maui, Kauai, Oahu, St. Thomas, St. John, St. Kitts, Aruba, Nassau, Cayman, Puerto Rico, Orlando, Vegas, Tahoe, Avon, Vail, Aspen, Colorado-Springs, Palm-Springs, Miami, Key-West, Canada [Whistler, Radium, Fairmont, Banff] Paris, Malaga, Bangkok, Phuket, Brisbane, Mexico [Cancun, Playa Del Carmen, Cabo, Puerto Vallarta, Ixtapa].


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## frank808 (Sep 15, 2020)

Dean said:


> Yearly most weeks options should get you near the $250 per week even with ancillary costs. Points will be more at the higher end of your estimate. There are cheaper ways to travel but I think a well planned MVC purchase can be a great value for the right family. My view of the situation where timeshare ownership can make sense is if one can plan a year or more in advance, pay cash, is OK without the hotel extras like daily housekeeping, and values space including a kitchen. Specific to MVC you have to want to go to the locations that are included as part of the timeshare system. If MVC still makes sense then you have to decide the volume you need, how and where you want to travel. Do you need points or is a week with or without exchanging best for that person. Just spend a few months getting thoroughly educated and the answers will become fairly clear. Read including the stickies above and ask questions. The more information you give us, the better recommendations we can make.


Also love the in room washer and dryer for most 1br and larger room sizes. Really helps in packing just a carry on if flying. Also when going to a TS after a cruise it is great to be able to wash your clothes.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk


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## liongate88 (Sep 15, 2020)

MICROZE said:


> *Marriott: *We own 1 x Every-Year 2BR-Unis at Marriott Ko'Olina + Marriott Shadow Ridge + DCP-Points.
> *Vistana: *We also own multiple 2BR Lock-Off Units at Westin Lagunamar [EOY] + Westin Kierland [Every-Year] + Aventuras-Points.
> 
> We find doing the following is the best way to lower our Cost/Night.
> ...


Hi,   Can you add resale weeks (voluntary) in your IL membership in corporate Vistana account? It mentioned in your post Interval membership fees (Marriott/Vistana Zero). Like I have WKV , can I add resale SDO and don’t have to pay another IL membership for IL exchange? Thanks!


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## vacationtime1 (Sep 15, 2020)

liongate88 said:


> Hi,   Can you add resale weeks (voluntary) in your IL membership in corporate Vistana account? It mentioned in your post Interval membership fees (Marriott/Vistana Zero). Like I have WKV , can I add resale SDO and don’t have to pay another IL membership for IL exchange? Thanks!



Off topic, but the short answer is "no".

Many of us have multiple Interval accounts as a result (and aren't happy about having to pay twice or thrice for them).


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## davidvel (Sep 15, 2020)

BJRSanDiego said:


> My own cost-per-night is lower (I own 4 Marriotts).  That is because they are lock-offs and I split them and exchange them.  I have been successful in exchanging them for 1 and 2 BR units and pay the $59 upcharge to get a BR size upgrade.  Also, I try to make use of buying Getaways and using Accommodation certificates.  Getaways and A/Cs are a way to stretch your budget.
> 
> I am retired though so that makes it easy for me to travel on shoulder seasons.  Also, I enjoy enjoy "drive-to" vacations and I'm located in an area where I am a day's drive (or less) from about a half dozen timeshare areas.


Our experience has been the same. We almost always lock off and retrade  to 2 bedroom units.  We generally travel spring break, ski season, summer and a week here and there off season, to Tahoe, Park City, Hawaii, Palm Desert and Newport.   Our average nightly cost, including upfront resale cost (over 15 years) is under $175/night. Cost has actually stayed the same over time since we enrolled.


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## BJRSanDiego (Sep 15, 2020)

@davidvel, we travel to many of the same places.  But, we haven't been to Park City yet.  I'll have to put that location on my list.  Besides the places you mentioned, we also travel annually to Sedona and Phoenix and occasionally to Tucson and Carmel.  So, we both have a nice location for drive-to vacations.


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## Dean (Sep 16, 2020)

IMO cost per night isn't that important.  Total cost up front and yearly is important from a budgeting process and to judge affordability.  Cost per night should be compared to what you would pay otherwise which will vary quite a bit from say Orlando to Aruba to HI.


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## Big Matt (Sep 16, 2020)

Agree with Dean.  

Also, you need to identify a strategy for how you are going to play the Marriott game.  If you are buying a resale, you should buy a lock off so that you can split it and trade both halves into II and get 2 2BRs back.  Of course you now pay membership and fees to II, but overall, you pay a little more to get a lot more for your money.  To get a good/decent trader, you won't need to spend more than $1000.  Expect MFs to be around $1500.  With II fees, you are looking at around $2100 per year or $150 per night for 14 nights.  If you just buy a 2BR to stay there every year, it will be around $215 per night.


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## GoodTimes (Sep 16, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> Agree with Dean.
> 
> Also, you need to identify a strategy for how you are going to play the Marriott game.  If you are buying a resale, you should buy a lock off so that you can split it and trade both halves into II and get 2 2BRs back.  Of course you now pay membership and fees to II, but overall, you pay a little more to get a lot more for your money.  To get a good/decent trader, you won't need to spend more than $1000.  Expect MFs to be around $1500.  With II fees, you are looking at around $2100 per year or $150 per night for 14 nights.  If you just buy a 2BR to stay there every year, it will be around $215 per night.



First of all thanks everyone for helping me understand planning my MVC investment.

The closest lock off to where we live would be Manor Club Sequel at Ford's Colony - does this trade well?

Also how can I find out more details about *Accommodation Certificates and Getaways*?  I have searched the forums and read the faqs - but I am still unclear about how easy it would be to pickup extra weeks in the Marriott System - if we are flexible on dates.  For example - during the low season is it easy to book places like hawaii or aruba for multiple weeks?  Do places like the Grande Ocean, OceanWatch, Barnoy Beach show up frequently?

Basically in the off season can retired owners hop MVC to MVC on Accommodation Certificates and Getaways?  Are they that plentiful?  Or would we have to buy additional weeks to stay frequently?


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## Pamplemousse (Sep 16, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> First of all thanks everyone for helping me understand planning my MVC investment.
> 
> The closest lock off to where we live would be Manor Club Sequel at Ford's Colony - does this trade well?
> 
> ...



If you are buying a week to lock off and deposit into II to exchange for 2 weeks it doesn’t matter how close the resort is to your home since you will be exchanging. I have never stayed at my home resort by direct booking- I deposit into II and exchange back if I want to, usually upsizing my unit. If you are buying a unit to stay in your ownership then you want to buy someplace you love.

Many (most?) AC’s are given for really no reason- II calls them valued customer AC’s. If you are not super picky you could certainly use them for off season trips. Redemption fee is usually around $300. I have 3 ACs sitting in my account right now- 2 expire in December and one in March. Of the places you mentioned only Oceanwatch is available in December and January- none of the others show for Dec- Mar.

Getaways vary in price and availability. Right now there is a availability in Hawaii and Aruba for the winter but not Marriotts and prices are generally $1000 a week. HHI Has Marriotts available in January for around $400-$500 per week.

I‘m not sure what you mean by “picking up extra weeks in the Marriott system”- do you mean by with AC’s and getaways?
I have friends who spent the month of January in orlando this year on a combo of getaway, AC and 2 6-day short stays.

If you go to interval world.com you can look around some, including reading the faq and buyers guide (legal) at the bottom of the page.

Hope this helps- we bought our week when our kids were in elementary school and have had many great vacations- the youngest is about to graduate college and they still like time sharing with us.


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## GoodTimes (Sep 16, 2020)

Pamplemousse said:


> If you are buying a week to lock off and deposit into II to exchange for 2 weeks it doesn’t matter how close the resort is to your home since you will be exchanging. I have never stayed at my home resort by direct booking- I deposit into II and exchange back, usually upsizing my unit. If you are buying a unit to stay in your ownership they you want to buy someplace you love.
> 
> Many (most?) AC’s are given for really no reason- II calls them valued customer AC’s. If you are not super picky you could certainly use them for off season trips. Redemption fee is usually around $300. I have 3 ACs sitting in my account right now- 2 expire 1 December and one in March. Of the places you mentioned only Oceanwatch is available in December and January- nome of the others show for Dec- Mar.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the insight - this gives me a good idea.  Basically I am trying to see how difficult it is to turn 1 week or 2 with a lock off into many weeks throughout the year with AC's and getaways.

I will look at lock offs further away.


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## Pamplemousse (Sep 16, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> Thanks for the insight - this gives me a good idea.  Basically I am trying to see how difficult it is to turn 1 week or 2 with a lock off into many weeks throughout the year with AC's and getaways.
> 
> I will look at lock offs further away.



What I do is reserve the highest trading power lock off week in my ownership season, deposit it into II  and place a request for the trip I want as far in advance as possible (since we travelled on school vacations this was easy since I knew when vacation was). I have certainly been reasonable about what I requested- not expecting my Orlando studio unit to get me a 2 br in Maui- but I have always had my request come through with an option I was happy with. Your deposit expires 2 years from your original reservation date so you have plenty of time to use the weeks. You can purchase a guest certificate for friends or family to use your week, but once deposited into II you can’t rent it out. You can also exchange to non Marriott resorts through II, but the exchange fee is higher.

Timeshare ownership was great for us to travel as a family- it forced us to take a trip or 2 every year and being able to cook meals, do laundry, and spread out was key.  We don’t have enough vacation time to need getaways or ACs and also find that some trips just really aren’t suited to timeshare so the week worked well for years.  We enrolled our week a few years ago and the points option gives us some added flexibility now that the kids are grown.


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## MICROZE (Sep 17, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> Thanks for the insight - this gives me a good idea.  Basically I am trying to see how difficult it is to turn 1 week or 2 with a lock off into many weeks throughout the year with AC's and getaways.
> 
> I will look at lock offs further away.


I have never managed to use AC's [too restrictive with very little choice for the places and resorts we would like to stay at].
In 12+ years we may have 1-2 Getaways. However, this is primarily because we own more than we can use.
Getaways have better options than AC's but can be more expensive [e.g. Marriott-Studio in Hawaii is usually over $1000] if available.

*CAUTION*: The current availability is not a good indication of future availability due to COVID.
E.g. currently people are exchanging AC's for 2BR/3BR-units at Westin/Marriott in Maui, Kauai, Oahu. This is not normally the case.
E.g. right now there is availability at Atlantis, Bahamas for the next 3 months straight. In the last 5-Years I saw 2-Studios show up for Exchange using a Westin.
E.g. last month I saw multiple units available at Westin St. John, USVI. In 12+ years I saw ZERO units at this resort.

In order of probability here is what you can expect for a successful exchange into a Marriott/Westin/Hyatt

Exchanges
Getaways
AC's


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## CPNY (Sep 17, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> Thanks for the insight - this gives me a good idea.  Basically I am trying to see how difficult it is to turn 1 week or 2 with a lock off into many weeks throughout the year with AC's and getaways.
> 
> I will look at lock offs further away.


I own vistana only in interval. Ive never exchanged, I use getaways and AC’s. I use them for whatever I can get. Although Have only ever stayed in Marriott properties in Orlando with them until COVID.


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## Dean (Sep 17, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> First of all thanks everyone for helping me understand planning my MVC investment.
> 
> The closest lock off to where we live would be Manor Club Sequel at Ford's Colony - does this trade well?
> 
> ...


Unless you'll use it part of the time, the location doesn't matter.  Manor Club for the best weeks should trade roughly as well as the other "trading Marriott's".  I don't own there but I do think there are better choices as a trading option since you have the ability to plan up front.  I too have never been able to use an AC and haven't seen much for getaways.  Some make good use of them for very short notice travel esp to higher volume places like Orlando.  One thing to consider is that when people say off season they often mean different things.  For example, some may use the term off season for Hilton Head to refer to anything but summer but the reality is that there's not a single one of my AC's that I can use for HHI and that the only truly low season for HHI is Dec to Jan minus the 2 weeks of the holidays.  You can trade in other times with planning but the weeks are not going to normally just be sitting there.  

I wouldn't buy with those as a critical part of my plan, esp for higher demand areas.  If you move forward consider a plan that works without the getaways and AC usage and one that works including them.  Then the part that is the same you could go ahead and proceed with and see how they work for you and if they don't work out, then you could add the additional components.  Also remember a lot of the Getaways aren't that cheap and even with an AC, there's still a decent cost that's higher than the exchange cost (ignoring underlying maintenance fees).


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## Big Matt (Sep 17, 2020)

Dean, I own Grande Vista and Manor Club Sequel, both platinum.  Grande Vista is a better trader.  The studio regularly pulls 2BRs in shoulder and high season.


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## Dean (Sep 17, 2020)

Big Matt said:


> Dean, I own Grande Vista and Manor Club Sequel, both platinum.  Grande Vista is a better trader.  The studio regularly pulls 2BRs in shoulder and high season.


Matt, I've formulated an opinion that MC, LV & WR all trade roughly the same if you have the best week and that Orlando, Gold Desert top weeks trade modestly better.  However, for most things and internal trading I doubt it makes much difference.  I have multiple things to compare to mostly WR, Orlando, Legend's Edge and high end like HI & HHI and I always get the top weeks both for exchanging and usually for usage.  My information and experience supports my opinions and is c/w yours as well.  But many don't share the same opinion and feel it doesn't make any difference and for many options done otherwise appropriately it probably doesn't truly make a difference.  In other words you may get the same exchange with any of them though it might be later with some than others.


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## Big Matt (Sep 17, 2020)

To add, but wasn't clear.......Manor Club trades like a champ.  It's just that GV is better comparing studios.  I never have any problem reserving the best weeks with MVC.  People consider Williamsburg and Orlando to be overbuilt, and therefore poor traders.   Simply not the case.


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## GoodTimes (Sep 17, 2020)

Dean said:


> Matt, I've formulated an opinion that MC, LV & WR all trade roughly the same if you have the best week and that Orlando, Gold Desert top weeks trade modestly better.  However, for most things and internal trading I doubt it makes much difference.  I have multiple things to compare to mostly WR, Orlando, Legend's Edge and high end like HI & HHI and I always get the top weeks both for exchanging and usually for usage.  My information and experience supports my opinions and is c/w yours as well.  But many don't share the same opinion and feel it doesn't make any difference and for many options done otherwise appropriately it probably doesn't truly make a difference.  In other words you may get the same exchange with any of them though it might be later with some than others.



You guys really know the system - based on all of this what would be the best lock off trader with a reasonable resale cost?  A resale in the 0-10k or 10-20k ranges?  Or maybe that should be kept a secret.


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## Dean (Sep 17, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> You guys really know the system - based on all of this what would be the best lock off trader with a reasonable resale cost?  Maybe with a resale in the 0-10k or 10-20k?


My opinion is "it depends".  Probably the best of the usual traders is Grande Vista (esp in FL club) with Harbour Lake and Gold Desert second.  The best if one plans to enroll or look at a 3 BR is likely Grande Chateau and it's the second cheapest yearly.  The cheapest is going to be Willow Ridge likely both up front and yearly.  The reality is that all should do what one needs in a trader if they get a top week then deposit and request ASAP so taking the cheapest one that comes along might be the best answer.  None will consistently get top options during high demand times like HHI 4th of July but GV will likely give a leg up for that type of option.  I would not buy a trader at anywhere near $10K though one might buy something to use part of the time and trade part of the time in that range, say Ocean Pointe.  No one size fits all though.


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## aamarquez8 (Sep 18, 2020)

We recently purchased a 3bed Marriott Grand Chateau so we could hopefully get a staycation in Hawaii out of it; if not, we can vacay in the West Coast.  Our MGC lock-offs into a 1br + 2br.

Per my calculation, the current cost per night per room tallied between $102 up to $130  So, a 2 bedroom would minimally be $236.  Buy in for 25yrs, MF, LO & II fees were considered.  Hope this helps with your decision.


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## Big Matt (Sep 18, 2020)

You should first look for platinum weeks at the places that were mentioned and buy one for no money if you can.  I just looked at Redweek for grins and you can find a 2BR Grande Vista for under $2500.  Manor Club lock off for $2000.  Willow Ridge $1500.  Those are the posted prices.  If you do buy make sure the fees are paid up and the use year isn't way far out.


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## jont (Sep 19, 2020)

I know this doesn't answer your original question, but my philosophy is to, at firs,t buy where you would be happy going every year. It is also better to select a place which is in driving distance, to avoid the cost of airfare if possible.  I know its easy to get caught up in the trading /lockoff game and try to maximize your vacation nights and upgrading villa sizes and many people are very successful at this. However,in your situation, living in the east with 2 young school children I would seriously consider buying a resale South Carolina timeshare in the platinum season.  If during some years, you want a change they trade, very well, but they are not lockoffs, so you would only get one week for yours. They also rent out very well, some at 2x maintenance fees, should you be inclined to do so.  Before you decide, I would run these numbers and see how they stack up. you might be suprised, esp when considering airfare, car rentals, etc. Good luck with your decision.


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## heathpack (Sep 19, 2020)

jont said:


> I know this doesn't answer your original question, but my philosophy is to, at firs,t buy where you would be happy going every year. It is also better to select a place which is in driving distance, to avoid the cost of airfare if possible.  I know its easy to get caught up in the trading /lockoff game and try to maximize your vacation nights and upgrading villa sizes and many people are very successful at this. However,in your situation, living in the east with 2 young school children I would seriously consider buying a resale South Carolina timeshare in the platinum season.  If during some years, you want a change they trade, very well, but they are not lockoffs, so you would only get one week for yours. They also rent out very well, some at 2x maintenance fees, should you be inclined to do so.  Before you decide, I would run these numbers and see how they stack up. you might be suprised, esp when considering airfare, car rentals, etc. Good luck with your decision.



I agree with the spirit of this post, although I don’t have the Marriott expertise to get into the nitty gritty of what’s best to own.

But I am most comfortable with TS ownership that meets the following criteria:
1.  If all the current trading paradigm changes, I’d be happy to visit my TS every time.  Or, if my intended use of my timeshare falls through, I’m ok using it myself.  
2.  I can use it without paying fees beyond my MF- ie I don’t need a Redweek account to rent it, or an II exchange fee to use it
3.  I can get there inexpensively and bring a ton of stuff, including groceries from home if need be.  IE it’s a driveable location.
4.  I can rid myself of the timeshare easily when I’m done with it (most good season Marriotts fit the bill).

The basic idea is that if costs escalate beyond expectation, you’re not stuck in a TS you can’t use or recoup your annual costs by renting.

Lock offs are really nice (because they add a big layer of flexibility to TS ownership), and generally speaking I prefer them.  But sometimes you specifically want to own at a resort that doesn’t have lock off units.

Dont get me wrong- I have a pure trader (SBP) that I never want to go to, I’d have to fly to use it, and someday I might have trouble getting rid of it.  So sometimes you break your own rules and still find yourself hanging onto a timeshare you really should part with.

But I agree with JonT that there’s a few other factors to consider that might decrease the hassle factor of TS ownership.  If Marriott Hilton Head resorts were lock offs, they’d be perfect for you.  Maybe Florida is close enough for you to drive to, esp as the kids get older- so those might be good choices.  If Williamsburg Marriotts are lock offs, Id consider one of those too.


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## Big Matt (Sep 20, 2020)

If you have enrolled weeks, you pretty much hedge all of the negatives that you mention and limit the fees.  I agree with everything you posted BTW.


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## alexadeparis (Oct 14, 2020)

Remember that getaways in II are pretty much leftovers in overbuilt areas and usually has higher end resorts blocked out. Generally, buy where you would be happy going most of the time and learn to deposit early for best trading power, locking off can double your vacation time for not much more money, and learn as you go. Conventional wisdom is that MGV and MGC are the best 3 bedrooms to buy, no matter the size platinum is best, and book the best week to deposit that you can. Those are all good starting points.


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## jmhpsu93 (Oct 16, 2020)

Using II with a lockoff drastically reduces your per night cost.  Let's just pick a unit I have MGV 2 BR Gold season lockoff that I basically got paid to take so no acquisition cost, ~$1500/year MFs.

Using only that week puts my per night cost around $215.  Locking off, depositing, and trading with upgrade to 2 2 BRs (and I can easily get trades into summer month Orlando and Palm Beaches MVC resorts, plus Christmas/New Years and Easter/Spring weeks in Orlando), even with the ~ $500 in lockoff, trade and upgrade fees puts me under $150/night.  Trading into Hilton Head summer is a non-starter for Gold, not sure about Platinum.

Only drawback is that gold season doesn't have any non-school season weeks, unless you include Thanksgiving.  Platinum season trades better and gives you much better "use as is" options, but there is an acquisition cost to amortize.


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## davidvel (Oct 16, 2020)

jmhpsu93 said:


> Using II with a lockoff drastically reduces your per night cost.  Let's just pick a unit I have MGV 2 BR Gold season lockoff that I basically got paid to take so no acquisition cost, ~$1500/year MFs.
> 
> Using only that week puts my per night cost around $215.  Locking off, depositing, and trading with upgrade to 2 2 BRs (and I can easily get trades into summer month Orlando and Palm Beaches MVC resorts, plus Christmas/New Years and Easter/Spring weeks in Orlando), even with the ~ $500 in lockoff, trade and upgrade fees puts me under $150/night.  Trading into Hilton Head summer is a non-starter for Gold, not sure about Platinum.
> 
> Only drawback is that gold season doesn't have any non-school season weeks, unless you include Thanksgiving.  Platinum season trades better and gives you much better "use as is" options, but there is an acquisition cost to amortize.


Another drawback is you lose any view designation a week may have.


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## jmhpsu93 (Oct 16, 2020)

davidvel said:


> Another drawback is you lose any view designation a week may have.



True, but doesn't matter with inland resorts that are good traders (MGV, MWR, MGC), as we don't have view designations.   I'm actually happy losing my at best golf course view Grande Vista unit for an oceanview Ocean Pointe.  Generalizing a bit, but most units that have desirable view designations are going to have a much higher acquisition cost anyway.


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## jwalk03 (Oct 16, 2020)

I just bought a 2BR Harbour Lake off eBay for $300 all-in to trade.  Here is how I would calculate my per night cost to exchange for (2) 2BR week stays.  (I didn't include the buy-in cost since it will really depend on how many years I own it, but since it was only $300 its not a large expense broken out over several years.)  When I joined II they were running a special of 3 years for the price of 1 for new Marriott owners.


2021MF $   1,505.00Lock-off $       90.00II Membership $       33.00Exchange Fee 1- Aruba Ocean Club $      119.00Exchange Fee 2- TBD $      119.00Upsize Fee 1 $       99.00Upsize Fee 2 $      198.00Total Cost $   2,163.00Nights14Cost/Night $      154.50

The rack rate on Marriott.com for the one week in the 2BR in Aruba is $652 per night.  Obviously it could be had for less renting from an owner, but that would still be more than $154.50 per night I'm sure!


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## GoodTimes (Oct 16, 2020)

jwalk03 said:


> I just bought a 2BR Harbour Lake off eBay for $300 all-in to trade.  Here is how I would calculate my per night cost to exchange for (2) 2BR week stays.  (I didn't include the buy-in cost since it will really depend on how many years I own it, but since it was only $300 its not a large expense broken out over several years.)  When I joined II they were running a special of 3 years for the price of 1 for new Marriott owners.
> 
> 
> 2021MF$   1,505.00Lock-off$       90.00II Membership$       33.00Exchange Fee 1- Aruba Ocean Club$      119.00Exchange Fee 2- TBD$      119.00Upsize Fee 1$       99.00Upsize Fee 2$      198.00Total Cost$   2,163.00Nights14Cost/Night$      154.50
> ...



Those are great numbers.  Are those prime weeks you are getting or off season?  How likely is it to get the upsize?  Is it difficult to get back to back weeks?

Thanks!


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## dioxide45 (Oct 16, 2020)

jwalk03 said:


> I just bought a 2BR Harbour Lake off eBay for $300 all-in to trade.  Here is how I would calculate my per night cost to exchange for (2) 2BR week stays.  (I didn't include the buy-in cost since it will really depend on how many years I own it, but since it was only $300 its not a large expense broken out over several years.)  When I joined II they were running a special of 3 years for the price of 1 for new Marriott owners.
> 
> 
> 2021MF$   1,505.00Lock-off$       90.00II Membership$       33.00Exchange Fee 1- Aruba Ocean Club$      119.00Exchange Fee 2- TBD$      119.00Upsize Fee 1$       99.00Upsize Fee 2$      198.00Total Cost$   2,163.00Nights14Cost/Night$      154.50
> ...


You would save some money to upgrade to II Platinum on a 2 for 1 deal. Two years for $139. You would get 6 discounted upgrade fees for that. Would save you $240 in upgrade fees.


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## frank808 (Oct 16, 2020)

jwalk03 said:


> I just bought a 2BR Harbour Lake off eBay for $300 all-in to trade.  Here is how I would calculate my per night cost to exchange for (2) 2BR week stays.  (I didn't include the buy-in cost since it will really depend on how many years I own it, but since it was only $300 its not a large expense broken out over several years.)  When I joined II they were running a special of 3 years for the price of 1 for new Marriott owners.
> 
> 
> 2021MF$   1,505.00Lock-off$       90.00II Membership$       33.00Exchange Fee 1- Aruba Ocean Club$      119.00Exchange Fee 2- TBD$      119.00Upsize Fee 1$       99.00Upsize Fee 2$      198.00Total Cost$   2,163.00Nights14Cost/Night$      154.50
> ...


You are a little low on the Marriott to Marriott exchange fees.  They are $159 a trade IIRC.  Wonder if there will be an increase in exchange fees this year with II?


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## jwalk03 (Oct 17, 2020)

GoodTimes said:


> Those are great numbers.  Are those prime weeks you are getting or off season?  How likely is it to get the upsize?  Is it difficult to get back to back weeks?
> 
> Thanks!



I have only made one exchange so far.  But it was for Aruba the last week of April.  Which was the exact thing and week I was trying to get as it’s my wife and I anniversary.  I got a match in 2 days.  I’m sure it may not always be that easy though.


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## pedro47 (Oct 17, 2020)

in the beginning ( during my 30 years of using timeshare stays) I tried to average the cost Per Night between $29 to $49 dollars per night.

Now I tried to average the cost per night between $69-$79 per night  depending on the resort  location and the time of the year.

I maybe low or high on both projections. This is based upon the top of my head projections.


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## DeeCee (Oct 17, 2020)

I didn't read through the entire thread, but I can share how I figure out my costs of owning a Marriott legacy week at Surfwatch. I'm sure I'm off on my calculations, but not by much. We paid $6500 in 2017 (too much for a resale, even direct through Marriott) and with averaging out our MF (including increases each year) over 10 years, I come up with about $320 per night for a 2 bed/2 bath/sleep 8 garden view villa/gold season. Averages $2240 per year for a 7 night stay.

I guess that's not so bad for the week we usually go (Spring Break), I have seen the rentals through booking.com, etc. at $450 a night.  As a relatively new owner of MVC and being an owner of DVC for 20 years, I can say owning Marriott isn't as cost effective as I thought it would be. Of course, this past year didn't help with COVID causing loss of money and vacation options for so many people, including us. Even so, I find there's a charge for everything with Marriott. If I want to change my 2021 Spring Break week (daughter having a baby!) and try to book the Fall instead, there's a change fee to use our week at our home resort during our gold season. There's a membership fee to Interval International if we want to deposit our week and if I understand correctly, a fee to book a different place within Interval (besides the membership fee).  

We bought with the purpose of only using our time at our home resort, but due to Covid, this year we had to use it as a certificate through II so we had to pay a membership and then pay for booking a resort with the certificate. I added that to 2020's maintenance fees we paid and compared it to what the rental prices of the resort/week we were able to get with the certificate would be. It comes out to a loss of approximately $900 for this year and it turns out we will only be able to use 3 nights of the week we were able to get with Interval, so there's a loss in that as well.

We did wind up putting our 2021 week up for rent due to our not being able to use it since our daughter is due that week, but hopefully this will be the only time we have to rent it out. We are hoping to be able to use it with our children and grandchildren going forward. Surfwatch is absolutely gorgeous, and I have only wonderful things to say about the resort and location itself.

Good luck with your decision and happy timesharing!


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## Bearster (Oct 17, 2020)

One point of information is that Manor Club is due to be renovated starting in 2021.  I have no information about how the pandemic will affect this timetable.  If the owners' association returns to the classic Manor Club style, the trading value of this timeshare should increase.  The most recent renovation was not what many owners wanted and has depressed trading value for the past six years, although the trading value is still exceptionally good for all seasons.  (There is a platinum week on ebay for which the auction expires today).  Separately, I have found that the II A/C weeks for MVCI are regularly available for shoulder seasons at Manor Club, Grand Vista, and for Hilton Head and Orlando properties.  I have seen many families taking three-day weekend trips during these times, especially on Hilton Head.


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