# Today’s owner update



## rjlafferty (Jul 8, 2019)

My husband and I attended an owner update today.   They were originally only offering to all the owners a 400k package at the developers rate of $191 per thousand and you were given until 12/31 to accept or decline.  As my husband and I already own over 800k of resale we immediately told them we were not interested.   And so it began...

The sales pitch...
In the future there will no longer be availability for Wyndham select owners because most of the owners and inventory is earmarked for CWA.  So if I don’t buy CWA, I won’t be able to see or book inventory at resorts ( including home resorts).  

Anyone like us who own fixed weeks will not be guaranteed our room because VIP reservations will take priority. 

Finally check in times will be delayed and we should not expect to get in a room until closer to 7 pm because our status does not say VIP.  

The sales department offered to rectify our troubles for the small charge of $26k.  They would take my Hilton Marco island resort for a PIC (154k Wyndham points), convert a fixed week and let us buy 134k CWA points.  We would have VIP silver.  But we needed to decide now. 

My answer... NO!


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## HDiaz1 (Jul 8, 2019)

I think everyone should start reporting this to Wyndham’s CEO. I have Jeff’s email too (Senior Vice President Club and Owner Services) he could actually be the one to look into this. 

Wyndham is a great product but it does gets a bad rep because of their nasty sales practices. 

I don’t think I had ever been lied to so much on my face as I did when I attended my first Wyndham presentation. I knew better than to buy from developer but they were really pushing trying to get me to buy. Would just not take a no for an answer.


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## rjlafferty (Jul 8, 2019)

Perhaps you could share the email.  Myself and others might find it handy to share our experiences.


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## HDiaz1 (Jul 8, 2019)

rjlafferty said:


> Perhaps you could share the email.  Myself and others might find it handy to share our experiences.



*Jeff Zorovich*
Senior Vice President Club and Owner Services – Wyndham Vacation Clubs
office: 407-626-5528
jeff.zorovich@wyn.com


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## Herbaltees (Jul 14, 2019)

I too attended a sales meeting today and I had a hard time trying to understand what I was being sold. 

At first they said Wyndham was rebranding and we would have access to 4 different types of membership programs.

Then something, something about privileges makes... which the name made me very uncomfortable.

Last I was told my 77k resale contract needed to be “fixed” because of a special
Assessment after hurricane Sandy.

Does any one know what the new program is all about??


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## kaljor (Jul 15, 2019)

In general in my life, anytime I'm presented with way too many options to evaluate quickly, I know I'm dealing with a very smooth and professional salesman.  I then just shut down mentally, and don't even try to figure it out, I just try to figure out how to get out gracefully. And that's not just for timeshares, that's for anything.


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## Herbaltees (Jul 15, 2019)

kaljor said:


> In general in my life, anytime I'm presented with way too many options to evaluate quickly, I know I'm dealing with a very smooth and professional salesman.  I then just shut down mentally, and don't even try to figure it out, I just try to figure out how to get out gracefully. And that's not just for timeshares, that's for anything.





This is true for anything in life.
However, I was looking for information on whatever the “new and improved” is that should have been presented.

Thanks anyway.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 15, 2019)

Herbaltees said:


> I too attended a sales meeting today and I had a hard time trying to understand what I was being sold.
> 
> At first they said Wyndham was rebranding and we would have access to 4 different types of membership programs.
> 
> ...



It's honestly hard to say what they meant by the different membership programs, but having just attended an update yesterday morning myself, I believe they are simply referring to:

Club Plus (CWP - Wyndham)
Club Pass (Worldmark)
Shell Vacation Club (SVC)
Margaritaville Vacation Club (MVC)

Whatever marketing-esq words they use - all they are really doing is putting lipstick on a pig so to speak - meaning they are coming up with new marketing slogans and names to describe the same programs that have been around for years (except for SVC of course - which is a relatively new acquisition).


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## paxsarah (Jul 15, 2019)

See, and here I thought I had seen it described in the past as:

Select
CWA
Margaritaville
PR


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## CO skier (Jul 15, 2019)

Herbaltees said:


> I too attended a sales meeting today and I had a hard time trying to understand what I was being sold.
> 
> At first they said Wyndham was rebranding and we would have access to 4 different types of membership programs.
> 
> ...


Wyndham is rebranding the VIP membership program as "Privileges" and introducing a fourth level.

It is impossible to understand what the salesperson was blathering about.

The sales pitch was a collection of lies and exaggerations, as usual.  Do not worry.  You are not missing out on anything with your resale credits.


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## Nomad34 (Jul 16, 2019)

Really anything to confuse and hype sales is their intention. Some caught on early but others have suffered through rescinsions.  Thankfully some are being nicer to older members and releasing them before the time promised.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

.


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## dgalati (Jul 16, 2019)

.


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## Baby Jane (Jul 18, 2019)

Herbaltees said:


> I too attended a sales meeting today and I had a hard time trying to understand what I was being sold.
> 
> At first they said Wyndham was rebranding and we would have access to 4 different types of membership programs.
> 
> ...


I hate the name privileges. In today’s society being privileged isn’t something you want to be. It implies something you haven’t earned and trust me the money we have given Wyndham we earned our own VIP. We didn’t backdoor into it. We worked hard and paid developers prices all the way to platinum so no I am not privileged


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## HitchHiker71 (Jul 18, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Wyndham is rebranding the VIP membership program as "Privileges" and introducing a fourth level.
> 
> It is impossible to understand what the salesperson was blathering about.
> 
> The sales pitch was a collection of lies and exaggerations, as usual.  Do not worry.  You are not missing out on anything with your resale credits.



Actually it's five levels as follows:

Advantage - 300k-499k
Ambassador - 500k-799k
Champion - 800k-1.099M
Legends - 1.1M - 1.399M
Founders - 1.4M+


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## dgalati (Jul 18, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Actually it's five levels as follows:
> 
> Advantage - 300k-499k
> Ambassador - 500k-799k
> ...


To buy into this privilege how much for each level?  Developer purchases only. Asking for a friend.  Thanks in advance


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## dgalati (Jul 18, 2019)

HitchHiker71 said:


> Actually it's five levels as follows:
> 
> Advantage - 300k-499k
> Ambassador - 500k-799k
> ...


Would it be cheaper to buy one level at a time or go all in and become a Flounder at the start?


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## dgalati (Jul 18, 2019)

CO skier said:


> Wyndham is rebranding the VIP membership program as "Privileges" and introducing a fourth level.
> 
> It is impossible to understand what the salesperson was blathering about.
> 
> The sales pitch was a collection of lies and exaggerations, as usual.  Do not worry.  You are not missing out on anything with your resale credits.



Yea but a sales person told me once I wasn't really a owner and with resale points. I would only be able to book at places like Star Island but not be able to book at the nicer resorts  like Bonnet Creek. He could help me out it If I made one small developr purchase of 28,000 points for $8000. You see the logic in his strategy?


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## Herbaltees (Jul 18, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yea but a sales person told me once I wasn't really a owner and with resale points. I would only be able to book at places like Star Island but not be able to book at the nicer resorts  like Bonnet Creek. He could help me out it If I made one small developr purchase of 28,000 points for $8000. You see the logic in his strategy?



That’s what they told me, too. That I needed to wyndham-Ize the account.  I don’t care what they say. The bills etc say dear OWNER! 




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## dgalati (Jul 18, 2019)

Herbaltees said:


> That’s what they told me, too. That I needed to wyndham-Ize the account.  I don’t care what they say. The bills etc say dear OWNER!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea but your member #starts with a 00999 and that is how they know your a resale buyer. It helps them call you out as being wise to their game. This is where they attack you from another angle. They will belittle you into thinking privileges is for you. If you have 2 million points they will sell you 5 million. You can always book and re book to rent and cover your maintenance fees or Its so easy to pay maintenance fees with letting Extra holidays rent the points for you or use. The best one is use your rewards card to pay the maintenance fees. You just don't understand how to spend money to make $$$$$


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## Braindead (Jul 18, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yea but your member #starts with a 00999 and that is how they know your a resale buyer. It helps them call you out as being wise to their game. This is where they attack you from another angle. They will belittle you into thinking privileges is for you. If you have 2 million points they will sell you 5 million. You can always book and re book to rent and cover your maintenance fees or Its so easy to pay maintenance fees with letting Extra holidays rent the points for you or use. The best one is use your rewards card to pay the maintenance fees. You just don't understand how to spend money to make $$$$$


Well that’s how my member number starts!! 
I was also told that if you inherited your ownership your member number starts 00999 & no I didn’t inherit mine


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## Pathways (Jul 18, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yea but your member #starts with a 00999 and that is how they know your a resale buyer.



Not accurate.


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## dgalati (Jul 18, 2019)

Pathways said:


> Not accurate.


Well that was what I was told by sales and you know it has to be truth if I heard it from them. But they will still try to sell you 5 million points and tell you how much you can save in maintenance fees buying more and more. They will come up with new names for VIP and tell you the Privileges you will have to own and pay maintenance fees.


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## Herbaltees (Jul 18, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yea but your member #starts with a 00999 and that is how they know your a resale buyer. It helps them call you out as being wise to their game. This is where they attack you from another angle. They will belittle you into thinking privileges is for you. If you have 2 million points they will sell you 5 million. You can always book and re book to rent and cover your maintenance fees or Its so easy to pay maintenance fees with letting Extra holidays rent the points for you or use. The best one is use your rewards card to pay the maintenance fees. You just don't understand how to spend money to make $$$$$



No one has to wear their member number like a Scarlett letter, so I’m not sure why Sales thinks this would matter to people?



Next time I go, I’ll just skip the presentation. 




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## silentg (Jul 18, 2019)

I never go to presentations anymore, I like what we have and don’t need to waste time listening to sales pitches and ridiculous promises.
Silentg


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## dgalati (Jul 19, 2019)

Herbaltees said:


> That’s what they told me, too. That I needed to wyndham-Ize the account.  I don’t care what they say. The bills etc say dear OWNER!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Until your account has been wndham-ized you will never be able to walk tall and use all the member benefits. Only solution to correct this is buy from Wyndham to make your ownership complete with all the Privilege's.


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## Herbaltees (Jul 19, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Until your account has been wndham-ized you will never be able to walk tall and use all the member benefits. Only solution to correct this is buy from Wyndham to make your ownership complete with all the Privilege's.






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## jwalk03 (Jul 19, 2019)

The only thing the sales weasels are interested in Wyndhamizing is your bank account!


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## dgalati (Jul 19, 2019)

jwalk03 said:


> The only thing the sales weasels are interested in Wyndhamizing is your bank account!


From your bank account to theirs. Sounds like your not buying into the privilege's and status that go with purchasing from Wyndham?


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## JudiZ (Jul 19, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Until your account has been wndham-ized you will never be able to walk tall and use all the member benefits. Only solution to correct this is buy from Wyndham to make your ownership complete with all the Privilege's.


I think I'll just slither in as a second-class owner and keep the thousands of dollars in my own bank account. I went to one Wyndham "update" years ago before I was an owner and literally (I mean physically) became ill. Not a diversion I would recommend to anyone but it was horribly effective. It had nothing to do with the presentation, just perfect...ahem...bad timing.


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## Crafty71 (Jul 20, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Would it be cheaper to buy one level at a time or go all in and become a Flounder at the start?


 I think you nailed it...!! Anyone who goes "all in" is definitely a flounder...perfect typo...

Cheers!


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## dgalati (Jul 22, 2019)

JudiZ said:


> I think I'll just slither in as a second-class owner and keep the thousands of dollars in my own bank account. I went to one Wyndham "update" years ago before I was an owner and literally (I mean physically) became ill. Not a diversion I would recommend to anyone but it was horribly effective. It had nothing to do with the presentation, just perfect...ahem...bad timing.


I agree but I will not condone anyone if they want to go all in on becoming a VIP and it works for them?


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## chapjim (Jul 22, 2019)

dgalati said:


> I agree but I will not condone anyone if they want to go all in on becoming a VIP and it works for them?



Maybe "criticize" instead of "condone?"


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## dgalati (Jul 22, 2019)

chapjim said:


> Maybe "criticize" instead of "condone?"


Haha.  You caught that one?


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## chapjim (Jul 22, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Haha.  You caught that one?



What?  Was that a test?


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## dgalati (Jul 22, 2019)

chapjim said:


> What?  Was that a test?


Only a trained litigator would pickup on that one.


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## chapjim (Jul 22, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Only a trained litigator would pickup on that one.



Not hardly!  Never tried a case in my life.


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## Tom4FL (Aug 1, 2019)

rjlafferty said:


> My husband and I attended an owner update today.   They were originally only offering to all the owners a 400k package at the developers rate of $191 per thousand and you were given until 12/31 to accept or decline.  As my husband and I already own over 800k of resale we immediately told them we were not interested.   And so it began...
> 
> The sales pitch...
> In the future there will no longer be availability for Wyndham select owners because most of the owners and inventory is earmarked for CWA.  So if I don’t buy CWA, I won’t be able to see or book inventory at resorts ( including home resorts).
> ...



Great answer, they probably didn’t tell you the whole story!  You can only use your PIC for five calendar years ( probably/usually means only three PICs based on month you upgrade (first year too late or used) and the month you get credit for you PIC in PIC system (last year)).  Also PIC points will no longer apply to VIP (Privileges) status in 2020 and new reservation will only show you availability for directly purchases WYNDHAM Points, therefore like me you will have plenty of points but not be shown all inventory.  The new base for seeing inventory for 1br is 166k points per year - not your available points but your directly purchased annual awarded points.  The new Wyndham Destinations programs are designed to reduce/avoid any use of PIC or resale points by limiting access to inventory based on directly purchase points. Will happily take your points back to sell again after you have paid for in full.


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## jwalk03 (Aug 1, 2019)

Tom4FL said:


> Great answer, they probably didn’t tell you the whole story!  You can only use your PIC for five calendar years ( probably/usually means only three PICs based on month you upgrade (first year too late or used) and the month you get credit for you PIC in PIC system (last year)).  Also PIC points will no longer apply to VIP (Privileges) status in 2020 and new reservation will only show you availability for directly purchases WYNDHAM Points, therefore like me you will have plenty of points but not be shown all inventory.  The new base for seeing inventory for 1br is 166k points per year - not your available points but your directly purchased annual awarded points.  The new Wyndham Destinations programs are designed to reduce/avoid any use of PIC or resale points by limiting access to inventory based on directly purchase points. Will happily take your points back to sell again after you have paid for in full.



You must have gone to a sales presentation recently.  This sounds like lots and lots and lots of sales lies were fed to you.  Take all of this with a bucket full of salt.  They were lying to you to sell you something like always.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 1, 2019)

Tom4FL said:


> Great answer, they probably didn’t tell you the whole story!  You can only use your PIC for five calendar years ( probably/usually means only three PICs based on month you upgrade (first year too late or used) and the month you get credit for you PIC in PIC system (last year)).  Also PIC points will no longer apply to VIP (Privileges) status in 2020 and new reservation will only show you availability for directly purchases WYNDHAM Points, therefore like me you will have plenty of points but not be shown all inventory.  The new base for seeing inventory for 1br is 166k points per year - not your available points but your directly purchased annual awarded points.  The new Wyndham Destinations programs are designed to reduce/avoid any use of PIC or resale points by limiting access to inventory based on directly purchase points. Will happily take your points back to sell again after you have paid for in full.



This is all BS from sales.  I have it direct from the SVP of Sales/Marketing and two regional directors that PIC stays intact with Privileges - this conversation has had and decided months ago that PIC stays intact with Privileges.  PIC Plus is permanent as well, only PIC Express is limited to five years.  The concept that you won't see availability with resale points, or PIC points, or anything else is also BS and a common lie from sales.  There's no priority and within the standard 10 month booking window, everyone sees the same inventory within CWP (exceptions are only for PR and MVC inventory).


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## wynBob (Oct 10, 2019)

Herbaltees said:


> That’s what they told me, too. That I needed to wyndham-Ize the account.  I don’t care what they say. The bills etc say dear OWNER!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





rjlafferty said:


> My husband and I attended an owner update today.   They were originally only offering to all the owners a 400k package at the developers rate of $191 per thousand and you were given until 12/31 to accept or decline.  As my husband and I already own over 800k of resale we immediately told them we were not interested.   And so it began...
> 
> The sales pitch...
> In the future there will no longer be availability for Wyndham select owners because most of the owners and inventory is earmarked for CWA.  So if I don’t buy CWA, I won’t be able to see or book inventory at resorts ( including home resorts).
> ...


That’s the standard In-House (owner upgrade) pitch. Whatever the problem (typically a fake one created by the sales rep) the solution is always to buy more points.


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## wynBob (Oct 10, 2019)

I worked for Wyndham. There is only one valid reason to buy more points - because you want more vacation. Any other narrative they present is pitching heat (misrepresentation). 

Your current Wyndham product - regardless of the club, where your seeded, or whether you bought it resale, dies not need to be converted or fixed, or traded to avoid some alleged special assessment. 

Also - you don’t lower maintenance fees by buying more and trading into another resort. Your maintenance cost per thousand points may be less, but you’re obviously paying much more in total since you’ve added points. Over the years I was always amazed at how many people spent another $30K and doubled their maintenance fees just to say they paid less fees per thousand points owned.


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## Grammarhero (Oct 10, 2019)

wynBob said:


> I worked for Wyndham. There is only one valid reason to buy more points - because you want more vacation. Any other narrative they present is pitching heat (misrepresentation).
> 
> Your current Wyndham product - regardless of the club, where your seeded, or whether you bought it resale, dies not need to be converted or fixed, or traded to avoid some alleged special assessment.
> 
> Also - you don’t lower maintenance fees by buying more and trading into another resort. Your maintenance cost per thousand points may be less, but you’re obviously paying much more in total since you’ve added points. Over the years I was always amazed at how many people spent another $30K and doubled their maintenance fees just to say they paid less fees per thousand points owned.


Glad you seemed to have reformed.  Did you ever feel bad working for Wyndham?


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## wynBob (Oct 10, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> Glad you seemed to have reformed.  Did you ever feel bad working for Wyndham?
> 
> No reform was necessary. No industry is perfect. Name yours, or any other, and it only takes a minute before you can drill down to the crazy.


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## wynBob (Oct 10, 2019)

HDiaz1 said:


> I think everyone should start reporting this to Wyndham’s CEO. I have Jeff’s email too (Senior Vice President Club and Owner Services) he could actually be the one to look into this.
> 
> Wyndham is a great product but it does gets a bad rep because of their nasty sales practices.
> 
> I don’t think I had ever been lied to so much on my face as I did when I attended my first Wyndham presentation. I knew better than to buy from developer but they were really pushing trying to get me to buy. Would just not take a no for an answer.



The CEO, and all senior leaders, are aware of this and other pitches. When it is brought to the appropriate level the behavior is often addressed. Not always. Your heat bet is to send it to Wyndham’s legal/compliance department. They follow up on all reports and forward it to the appropriate sales and marketing leaders with a reply requested regarding the resolution provided to the customer.


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## wynBob (Oct 10, 2019)

E


HitchHiker71 said:


> This is all BS from sales.  I have it direct from the SVP of Sales/Marketing and two regional directors that PIC stays intact with Privileges - this conversation has had and decided months ago that PIC stays intact with Privileges.  PIC Plus is permanent as well, only PIC Express is limited to five years.  The concept that you won't see availability with resale points, or PIC points, or anything else is also BS and a common lie from sales.  There's no priority and within the standard 10 month booking window, everyone sees the same inventory within CWP (exceptions are only for PR and MVC inventory).



Correct. Any time a sales rep, or T.O., tells you that you are about to lose a previously-held right or privilege, they are pitching heat and simply trying to coerce you into an upgrade. 

But if you go to these owner updates (a.k.a. Sales Presentations) you only have yourself to blame. You will be pitched and many/most times you won’t like what you hear. If the free dinner or gift is worth the time and aggravation then have at it. Personally, I think 3,4,5 hours of vacation time is worth a lot more. 

Wyndham also has a telesales group. For all brands. There isn’t as much pressure, you control the conversation, and you’ll have time to think about everything. They will be more than glad to take an inbound call so if you ever feel a burning need for a sales pitch, call their 800 number.


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## dgalati (Oct 11, 2019)

wynBob said:


> I worked for Wyndham.
> 
> Also - you don’t lower maintenance fees by buying more and trading into another resort. Your maintenance cost per thousand points may be less, but you’re obviously paying much more in total since you’ve added points. Over the years I was always amazed at how many people spent another $30K and doubled their maintenance fees just to say they paid less fees per thousand points owned.


Yes I have heard many say this. I compare this to someone that justified spending $1000 on a shopping spree by saying the saved $1000 because it was 50% off.


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## dgalati (Oct 11, 2019)

wynBob said:


> That’s the standard In-House (owner upgrade) pitch. Whatever the problem (typically a fake one created by the sales rep) the solution is always to buy more points.


I call this Wyndham math. The numbers never add up.


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## wynBob (Oct 11, 2019)

dgalati said:


> Yes I have heard many say this. I compare this to someone that justified spending $1000 on a shopping spree by saying the saved $1000 because it was 50% off.



Exactly, but in this case they spend the extra $1,000 every year.


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## 55plus (Oct 11, 2019)

Some people will buy a bucket of dung if it's on sale for 50% off. I would do it, but only if I needed a bucket.


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## Jan M. (Oct 11, 2019)

55plus said:


> Some people will buy a bucket of dung if it's on sale for 50% off. I would do it, but only if I needed a bucket.



Dung, aka manure and fertilizer, is sold in bags by Lowes and Home Depot so no need to buy the bucket. Landscapers and farmers will sell it to you by the truckload.


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## Braindead (Oct 11, 2019)

When I was in Alaska many years ago they sold moose droppings attached to many objects like key rings & they still do today


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## 55plus (Oct 11, 2019)

New version of the "Pet Rock."


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