# Closing costs in Maui (Marriott Maui Ocean Club)



## NTP66 (Feb 10, 2015)

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm currently looking to purchase an EOY resale unit at this location, but haven't had much luck searching for closing costs. I recently contacted TRI West about some units, and we got to talking about the closing costs. I was told the following:


Escrow: $300
Title/Insurance: $300-350
Marriott Fees: $120
Other (recording, etc.): $100

These seem a bit high to me, but being Hawaii, they could very well be accurate. I'm not terribly keen on overpaying for closing costs if I can avoid it, so I'm looking to see if these fees seem right to those of you who have purchased in Hawaii.


----------



## Bill4728 (Feb 10, 2015)

Most TS purchases do not include title insurance with a resale closing because the purchase prices don't make it reasonable.  BUT I'd assume that your purchase price is high enough to justify title insurance. 

Good Luck


----------



## NTP66 (Feb 10, 2015)

Honestly, it's pretty low. I'm looking at around $4500 for the unit, and that's only if I can't find another oceanfront for $6500 (I've seen a few recently). I've always thought that title insurance was a must regardless.


----------



## vacationtime1 (Feb 10, 2015)

Hawaii has a law that requires that companies holding funds (i.e. escrow companies) must be resident in Hawaii or have some kind of a working relationship with a Hawaii escrow company.  It drives up the costs.

The prices OP quoted are consistent with what I have paid, but if the purchase price is "only" $5,000 or so, title insurance may not be cost/effective.


----------



## NTP66 (Feb 10, 2015)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the responses. The only thing I'm stuck on are the maintenance fees. I've been looking at purchasing for 2-3 years now, and the MFs are not that much higher now for similar units than they were in 2012. However, I keep reading that I should expect them to go up 4% annually. I'm having a hard time believing that this is the case.


----------



## BocaBoy (Feb 11, 2015)

NTP66 said:


> Thanks everyone, I appreciate the responses. The only thing I'm stuck on are the maintenance fees. I've been looking at purchasing for 2-3 years now, and the MFs are not that much higher now for similar units than they were in 2012. However, I keep reading that I should expect them to go up 4% annually. I'm having a hard time believing that this is the case.



I don't know what you mean by not much higher than in  2012.  I own at MOC and I think the maintenance fees are out of control.  Remember that we have had almost no inflation or wage growth in the economy during that period, so why are the fees going up so much?  Even 2% increases in maintenance fees (often it is a lot more) are a lot in this environment.  Now energy costs are way down, but not the maintenance fees.  If energy costs remain low, the maintenance fees in 2016 should go DOWN.  Don't hold your breath on that one!


----------



## NTP66 (Feb 11, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> I don't know what you mean by not much higher than in  2012.  I own at MOC and I think the maintenance fees are out of control.  Remember that we have had almost no inflation or wage growth in the economy during that period, so why are the fees going up so much?  Even 2% increases in maintenance fees (often it is a lot more) are a lot in this environment.  Now energy costs are way down, but not the maintenance fees.  If energy costs remain low, the maintenance fees in 2016 should go DOWN.  Don't hold your breath on that one!



I meant that, in the EOY 1BR units that I've looked at over the past two years, the MFs were within $50 of one another. Granted, I have no idea if what was posted on Redweek was accurate or not, but I'd like to think it was. I would personally never expect the fees to go down in Maui just based on how timeshares are treated there.

I know this started as a closing costs thread, but I'm at the point where I'm trying to figure out if it's worth owning a unit there knowing that MFs could rise 3-4% each year, or even higher. Rentals have most definitely gone up in price, and I've got to assume that they'll continue to do so as owners charge more to cover those fees. If I look at the cost 25 years down the line, it's about $3k more to own vs. rent, but at the same time, being an owner would allow me to book the times that I want to book and not pay the crazy rates for whale season, so I do factor that into things.

Basically, I'm procrastinating at the last second. The only thing I know for sure is that the MOC is the only location I'd want to purchase at, so I don't need the flexibility of staying at other locations on the island.


----------



## BocaBoy (Feb 11, 2015)

NTP66 said:


> I meant that, in the EOY 1BR units that I've looked at over the past two years, the MFs were within $50 of one another. Granted, I have no idea if what was posted on Redweek was accurate or not, but I'd like to think it was. I would personally never expect the fees to go down in Maui just based on how timeshares are treated there.
> 
> I know this started as a closing costs thread, but I'm at the point where I'm trying to figure out if it's worth owning a unit there knowing that MFs could rise 3-4% each year, or even higher. Rentals have most definitely gone up in price, and I've got to assume that they'll continue to do so as owners charge more to cover those fees. If I look at the cost 25 years down the line, it's about $3k more to own vs. rent, but at the same time, being an owner would allow me to book the times that I want to book and not pay the crazy rates for whale season, so I do factor that into things.
> 
> Basically, I'm procrastinating at the last second. The only thing I know for sure is that the MOC is the only location I'd want to purchase at, so I don't need the flexibility of staying at other locations on the island.



I do not want to discourage you from purchasing at MOC.  I personally own oceanfront there is the new towers and I love the island and the resort.  Based on your needs and desires, I think it could be a good purchase for you, especially if you are buying ocean view or ocean front.  My only point is that even the numbers you cite translate into rather significant maintenance fee increases in a no inflation economic environment.  MVCI actually did a better job of controlling these costs in earlier years when inflation was higher.  It is a systemwide problem, not just a Maui problem.


----------



## NTP66 (Feb 11, 2015)

Yeah, I think I'm sold on just moving forward with a purchase for the reasons mentioned in my previous post. Now, if I could get one of these knuckleheads to actually call me back, I might be able to make a decision. I guess business is good right now?


----------



## kalima (Feb 11, 2015)

*Closing costs*

I recently bought an oceanfront unit in Maui (different resort) and this is what I was told by the seller:....".Just talked with the document company.  They said that if the property is gifted that first right of refusal does not apply.  The fees for gifting are markedly less at $351 with a resort transfer fee of $250.  We will pay all fees.  Escrow fees run around $1500 if it is a sale.  Would much prefer gifting it"................So I took it as a gift and the seller had lower closing costs....


----------



## NTP66 (Feb 11, 2015)

What are the odds that an agent/broker goes along with that, though? I'd be okay with it personally, but this particular unit is represented by a broker, and I'm not sure what they'd lose on the deal if we went that route. This particular broker told me that the closing costs would wind up being about $200 cheaper than the other unit.

On the topic, the previous agent told me that Marriott is exercising their ROFR on EOY units right now, saying that they just gave an owner $6k for a unit he had listed on Redweek for $3500. I'm most likely going to move forward with the agreed upon $4k purchase and see if it gets past Marriott, unless the broker would actually entertain the gifting idea. At this point, I can always wait until another unit pops up and just go through the motions again.


----------



## kalima (Feb 11, 2015)

*No*

I wouldn't expect a broker to do that at all....but I have listed the escrow costs etc in that post Good luck


----------



## NTP66 (Feb 11, 2015)

On a related note, I wish the ROFR database were actually online right now, because I'd love to see some of the more recent data. The most recent 1BR sale that passed that I can see was for $2500 on the same unit, but that was back in 2013.


----------



## NTP66 (Feb 12, 2015)

I should have the contract tomorrow, so the process has begun. I opted to go without title insurance on this, but will be getting a copy of the deed and an estoppel letter from Marriott. I was pointed to the ROFR DB that's hosted on Google, and from what I see, I'm thinking that I have a good shot at getting this unit. We'll see!


----------



## kalima (Feb 12, 2015)

*Fingers crossed!*

I was just now reading another thread about Marriott excerising their ROFR on a unit! Good luck


----------



## kalima (Feb 12, 2015)

*link*

here's the link   http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223367


----------



## NTP66 (Feb 12, 2015)

I've come across a few from the past 6 months or so, but most of them were REALLY low offers on units that probably should have sold for much higher. 1BR OV units at MOC routinely go for $2500-4500 from what I've seen on Redweek, and the figures in the DB back that up.

Yes, I'm trying to convince myself that there's no way Marriott exercises their option...


----------



## kalima (Feb 12, 2015)

*Fingys crossed!*

Hope you get it!


----------



## titan7 (Mar 11, 2015)

Did you get it?


----------



## NTP66 (Mar 11, 2015)

I'm still waiting to hear back. The clock started on 2/23, and I believe Marriott's got 30 days to respond, so I have another week and change before it's mine. I assume Marriott can just ignore it (and it'd be seen as a waiver) and let it go through? The wait is driving me nuts.


----------



## NTP66 (Mar 19, 2015)

I can't find a definitive answer on this, but does anyone know if Marriott's 30 days are business days or not? If so - and I'm guess that is the case, given that I haven't heard anything yet - they've got until April 6th. This is taking longer than it just did to refinance my house.


----------



## NTP66 (Mar 19, 2015)

I'm happy to report that Marriott has waived their ROFR, so the unit is mine for $4k! I was told by the agent I was working with that Marriott hired a new guy to handle ROFR's, and that he has seen an average of 10-20 days lately for these to be completed. All I know is that I'll be returning to Maui in 2016 as an owner.


----------



## Southerngirl528 (Mar 19, 2015)

Congratulations, NTP66!!! 

We bought 2 wks EOY in Napili when it just opened and we really love the resort. So much so we are also now looking for a resale week EY to add to what we bought from MVC! Let us know how your booking and first stay goes! Again, congrats!!


----------



## NTP66 (Mar 19, 2015)

Thanks! We've been staying at the MOC for years, so I'm very familiar with it at this point. We generally go in mid-September, so I don't foresee many issues booking out 12 months in advance. That being said, I will be using multiple computers a multiple browsers the first time around just to be safe.


----------



## silentg (Mar 19, 2015)

Congratulations, now join Tug!


----------

