# Buying in Scotland



## chum94555 (May 11, 2009)

Now that we have decided to buy resale HGVC, we have found a good deal on one of the HGVC resort in Scotland. We now know it is all about points and not location but question we have is , is it safe to buy in Scotland and can title search etc be done to ensure clean title? What about taxes?

 anyone who has any experience, we would appreciate your feedback please

 thanks

ks


----------



## nonutrix (May 11, 2009)

chum94555 said:


> Now that we have decided to buy resale HGVC, we have found a good deal on one of the HGVC resort in Scotland. We now know it is all about points and not location but question we have is , is it safe to buy in Scotland and can title search etc be done to ensure clean title? What about taxes?
> 
> anyone who has any experience, we would appreciate your feedback please
> 
> ...



I don't know what you are looking to pay, but you might contact the sales office at HGVC in Scotland before you do anything.  I was at Craigendorrach (sp) in July/Aug. 2007 and spoke to Colin in the onsite sales office.  He gave me list of resales that he could sell.  It was very long AND the prices were dirt cheap (in a good economy).  As I recall, they were all fixed units, fixed weeks.  I decided at that time that if I ever wanted to buy there, I would check with them first.  If you buy that way, you will have no worries about a clear title.  

I know this advice flies in the face of everything we read on TUG, but it might be worth a look anyway.  Can't hurt...and you won't have to sit through a sales pitch...I hope.  

Hope this helps.

nonutrix


----------



## chum94555 (May 11, 2009)

Thanks. I got this from Judy of REMAX . Yes I also noticed fixed week and I will clarify what that means as well but price is very cheap .

ks


----------



## nonutrix (May 11, 2009)

chum94555 said:


> Thanks. I got this from Judy of REMAX . Yes I also noticed fixed week and I will clarify what that means as well but price is very cheap .
> 
> ks



The HIGVC properties in Scotland are mostly, if not all, fixed week/fixed unit.  So you will need to know which week it is.  Personally, I wouldn't buy a week I'd never use, but then maybe you never plan to travel there - in that case it doesn't matter what the week is.  As has been said, point are points.  Which property are you looking at?  I've stayed in two of the three HIGVC timeshares.

nonutrix


----------



## Bill4728 (May 11, 2009)

The interaction between H*I.*GVC and HGVC isn't quite as seemless as it may seem. There have been reports of people having a little trouble using their HIGVC pts at HGVC when the reservations have been for the following year. 

Just be aware.


----------



## chum94555 (May 11, 2009)

*Craigendarroch*

The HG IVC resale we are considering in Scotland is

 Craigendarroch 

However we will need to do due diligence 

ks


----------



## nonutrix (May 11, 2009)

chum94555 said:


> The HG IVC resale we are considering in Scotland is
> 
> Craigendarroch
> 
> ...



Of the two HIGVC timeshares we stayed in Scotland, Craigendarroch was by far our favorite.  We stayed in a recently renovated one bedroom that was gorgeous.  The nearby town was quaint and very walkable.  Lots to do in the area.  

You might want to check, but I _think_ that Craigdarroch might also have the option of II membership as well as RCI.  I would consider that a plus.

Keep us informed,

nonutrix


----------



## alexb (May 11, 2009)

ownership transfer is done by the craigendarroch and costs £149
it is very hard to find exchanges into this resort in ii
i have had ac from ii for this resort 3 out of 4 years including 2010
i have a week for sale in timeshare marketplace


----------



## chum94555 (May 11, 2009)

*what is option 2*

hello Nonutrix


what is option 2? 

ks


----------



## chum94555 (May 11, 2009)

*Hgvc Vs Hgivc*



Bill4728 said:


> The interaction between H*I.*GVC and HGVC isn't quite as seemless as it may seem. There have been reports of people having a little trouble using their HIGVC pts at HGVC when the reservations have been for the following year.
> 
> Just be aware.



____

Thanks Good you brought it up. I am checking buy do any US based members have any experience ? ir if they own in foreign HGVIC and any experience making reservation in HGVC domestic resorts?

 Thanks


----------



## nonutrix (May 11, 2009)

chum94555 said:


> hello Nonutrix
> 
> 
> what is option 2?
> ...



Sorry, II stands for Interval International which is another exchange company like RCI.  Many people prefer it to RCI.  I can't say, since none of my timeshares have that trading option.  However, if I could, I would love to be in II as well as RCI.

nonutrix


----------



## nonutrix (May 11, 2009)

chum94555 said:


> The HG IVC resale we are considering in Scotland is
> 
> Craigendarroch
> 
> ...



BTW, you should know that very few Craigendarroch owners are HIGVC members - it is an option for owners.  I was told this by Colin in the sales office.  I met an owner while there.  She said that she owned several weeks at different times of the year, had them for years, and she was not a Hilton member.  She confirmed that of all of the owners she knew, none of them were Hilton members.  In fact my, stay here was on an RCI exchange with HGVC points.

IMHO, none of this would be a negative for purchase, but it is something you should be aware of.

nonutrix


----------



## chum94555 (May 11, 2009)

*Scotland and prepaid fees*

I am told by my Realtor the following on being different in owning HGVC in Scotland.thought it may help others as well

ks
___________

 Hi Ken,

The problem with the reservations in Scotland is that they require the maintenance fees to be paid prior to reservations being made.

The Bay Club does the same thing so I am sure you are familiar with that process.  With the other Hilton locations you can make reservations

prior to paying your fees for next year.  According to my contact at the Club that is the only problem. Basically making the members understand

that the policy is different.  Other than that there are no obstacles in owning the Scotland property.


----------



## Talent312 (May 11, 2009)

One of the other issues with H-I-GVC is the fluctuating currrency exchange rate.  Over the years, this can significantly affect how much annual MF's cost in USD, even if stable in GBP.  It wasn't to long ago that we had posts from U.S. owners grousing about how expensive their Scottish T/S had become.

The Pound to Dollar range over the last 52-weeks is 2.0171 - 1.3501.  The Pound is currently near a 5-year low, but charts shows that it may be on the way back up.  Think what a 50% increase in the strenth of the Pound would do to your USD MF's.


----------



## catlady (May 12, 2009)

> BTW, you should know that very few Craigendarroch owners are HIGVC members - it is an option for owners. I was told this by Colin in the sales office. I met an owner while there. She said that she owned several weeks at different times of the year, had them for years, and she was not a Hilton member. She confirmed that of all of the owners she knew, none of them were Hilton members. In fact my, stay here was on an RCI exchange with HGVC points.



Does this mean you can automatically join HIGVC if you buy from an owner who is not a member? Is the $300+ fee a one off or do you pay it every year?

I live in the UK and have seen resales listed here without mentioning points, so how do you know how many points you would get if you joined HIGVC. Most of the weeks are fixed weeks not listed in floating seasons etc 

Many thanks


----------



## Talent312 (May 12, 2009)

catlady said:


> Does this mean you can automatically join HIGVC if you buy from an owner who is not a member? Is the $300+ fee a one off or do you pay it every year?
> 
> I live in the UK and have seen resales listed here without mentioning points, so how do you know how many points you would get if you joined HIGVC. Most of the weeks are fixed weeks not listed in floating seasons etc.



Those are excellent questions.
To join with a previously unaffiliated-TS, AFAIK, there is a one-time activation fee for the first year and an annual membership fee thereafter.  But I suggest that you contact a sales office at one of the Hilton resorts in Scotland for an authoritative answer.


----------



## nonutrix (May 12, 2009)

catlady said:


> Does this mean you can automatically join HIGVC if you buy from an owner who is not a member? Is the $300+ fee a one off or do you pay it every year?
> 
> I live in the UK and have seen resales listed here without mentioning points, so how do you know how many points you would get if you joined HIGVC. Most of the weeks are fixed weeks not listed in floating seasons etc
> 
> Many thanks



Here's the contact info:
_Contact Hilton Craigendarroch  
Hilton International Grand Vacations Company
Hilton Craigendarroch
Braemar Road 
Ballater 
Royal Deeside 
AB35 5XA. 

Time Ownership Information Office 

John Pringle 
Colin Sabey

If you would like to contact us directly please click here 

Tel: (013397) 55558,  Fax: (013397)56077 
E-mail: john.pringle@hilton.com   or 
colin.sabey@hilton.com_


I think a lot of us would be interested in hearing the answers to these questions.

nonutrix


----------



## catlady (May 12, 2009)

> I think a lot of us would be interested in hearing the answers to these questions.



Thanks guys  

I will ring the sales office tomorrow and report back    Didn't get in early enough this evening to ring.

Anything else you want me to ask? 

Kate


----------



## Blues (May 12, 2009)

catlady said:


> I live in the UK and have seen resales listed here without mentioning points, so how do you know how many points you would get if you joined HIGVC. Most of the weeks are fixed weeks not listed in floating seasons etc



Yes, weeks are fixed, not floating.  I own a 2BR week 10 at Craigendarroch, which is gold, worth 5000 HGVC points.

The points chart is in the online member guide, which doesn't help you if you're not already an owner.  But here it is:

Platinum:  weeks 1, 14-15, 21-35, 40-43, 51-52
Gold:       weeks 7-13, 16-20, 36-39
Silver:      weeks 5-6, 44-47
Bronze:    weeks 2-4, 48-50

For 1BR/2BR, platinum is 4800/7000 points, gold is 3400/5000, silver is 2400/3500, and bronze is 1700/2500.

Recommendation: buy platinum or gold.  Silver and bronze cost too much in maintenance fees for the number of points you get.

Edited to add:
These are the point values for Craigendarroch.  Dunkeld and Coylumbridge are similar but slightly different.


----------



## catlady (May 12, 2009)

> Yes, weeks are fixed, not floating. I own a 2BR week 10 at Craigendarroch, which is gold, worth 5000 HGVC points.
> 
> The points chart is in the online member guide, which doesn't help you if you're not already an owner. But here it is:
> 
> ...



Thanks Blues, thats great info.


----------



## catlady (May 13, 2009)

Hi,

I spoke to a guy in the sales office this morning, (I have to say he was the most laid back salesman I've ever spoken to! I had to fight to get information out of him!)  Didn't even give me his name!

Anyway, what little I did find out was that (he said!) regardless of whether you buy a resale week which has joined the HIGVC or not, you have to pay the joining fee again, I was quoted £325 which is around $497, for this you get 2 years membership as well. You then pay every year after that (approx £70-£100). You can join both II or RCI aswell.

Blues is correct with his breakdown of dates and what they equal in points.  'He' said there is no difference to owning points here to owning points in the usa properties. I asked about the reservation issues with regard the advance reservations and he said he had not heard of that being a problem (but I guess he would say that!).

'He' does have a lot of weeks for sale. I asked what I would expect to pay for a summer school holiday week in a 2 bed (21-35) and he said around £9,000 (approx $13,700) (worth 7000 points). I've seen a UK resale through an agent for £4,999 (weeks 34 & 35), so they are alot more expensive.

MF's are £463 ($700) a year for a 2bed and there is a resort transfer fee of £142 (i.e closing costs).

He was such hard work to get info out of I didn't ask anything much else! He didn't sell the idea of buying there much to me at all, infact he put me off

Kate


----------



## Blues (May 13, 2009)

catlady said:


> regardless of whether you buy a resale week which has joined the HIGVC or not, you have to pay the joining fee again, I was quoted £325 which is around $497, for this you get 2 years membership as well. You then pay every year after that (approx £70-£100). You can join both II or RCI as well.



This is my understanding as well.  Each new owner has to pay for HGVC membership.  The membership does not transfer with the property.  The fee sounds a little high (in the US, it's $399), but in the ball park.  The yearly HGVC membership fee in the US is $99, so 70 GBP sounds a little high as well.

I purchased my week from eBay, only to discover that I was dealing directly with HIGVC in Scotland.  They included the transfer fee and 2 years membership in the price I paid.



> Blues is correct with his breakdown of dates and what they equal in points.  'He' said there is no difference to owning points here to owning points in the usa properties. I asked about the reservation issues with regard the advance reservations and he said he had not heard of that being a problem (but I guess he would say that!).



My comments on this issue are here.

-Bob


----------



## larsok (May 13, 2009)

I like to transfer my HGVC points to HHonors. If I would add another 7000 "scotland HIGVC points" to my existing HGVC points - are they treated the same?
Specifically, in order to get the 25:1 conversion rate you have to use next year points for conversion. Can you do this with your points from scotland? Any info appreciated.
Best Regards
Lars


----------



## Conan (May 13, 2009)

nonutrix said:
			
		

> I was at Craigendorrach (sp) in July/Aug. 2007 and spoke to Colin in the onsite sales office. He gave me list of resales that he could sell. It was very long AND the prices were dirt cheap


 


catlady said:


> I spoke to a guy in the sales office this morning, I asked what I would expect to pay for a summer school holiday week in a 2 bed (21-35) and he said around £9,000 (approx $13,700) (worth 7000 points). I've seen a UK resale through an agent for £4,999 (weeks 34 & 35), so they are alot more expensive.
> 
> MF's are £463 ($700) a year for a 2bed and there is a resort transfer fee of £142 (i.e closing costs).


 
That's not "dirt cheap!" If you're patient, I'm sure a better resale deal will come along.


----------



## nonutrix (May 13, 2009)

rklein001 said:


> That's not "dirt cheap!" If you're patient, I'm sure a better resale deal will come along.



When I was there two years ago, I didn't see anything, even 3 bdrs, over L5000.  I thought that was dirt cheap at the time, but maybe I was just comparing it to the HGVC developer prices I had seen.  I remember being amazed at the resale inventory they had, and also that Hilton was selling resales at all!

nonutrix


----------



## catlady (May 13, 2009)

> I remember being amazed at the resale inventory they had, and also that Hilton was selling resales at all!



They certainly still have a lot of inventory, I believe he said 3,000+  , I'm sure I heard that correctly!  Mind you I really had to ask and ask to get any resale info. so I'm not surprised they still have tons for sale, I guess they're not working on commision  !


----------



## Blues (May 13, 2009)

larsok said:


> I like to transfer my HGVC points to HHonors. If I would add another 7000 "scotland HIGVC points" to my existing HGVC points - are they treated the same?
> Specifically, in order to get the 25:1 conversion rate you have to use next year points for conversion. Can you do this with your points from scotland? Any info appreciated.
> Best Regards
> Lars



Yes.  When I said that you don't get your points until your use-year, I was being slightly inaccurate.  In fact, the bill for MFs generally comes out in November, and you can pay them any time before Dec 31.  I generally pay the MFs and then call HGVC to convert the week to HGVC points, sometime in December.  In the same phone call, you can then convert to HHonors.

-Bob


----------



## MattnTricia (May 15, 2009)

We currently own 4 weeks in Scotland. Reading through this post I want to make a few things clear:

1)Maintenace Fees in Scotland will vary with the exchange rate and have varied wildly over the last few years.

2)If you are going to buy in Scotland to get a low price per point purchase you should also consider the maintenace fees. If the purchase is strictly for points I would look in to Coylumbridge as they have significantly lower maintenace fees with pricing that has been about the same or lower than other Scotland properties.

3)Scotland resorts are all affiliate resorts and could end up being not affiliated with HGVC at some point.

4)Your purchase price per point should be less than $1 per point in Scotland for platinum weeks. I was recently quoted ~$6000(4000 GBP) for a 7000 point week at Coylumbridge. 

I would highly suggest caliing Cath at Coylumbridge direct and she would be happy to quote you current inventory and pricing.

I for one am a very happy Scotland owner who lives every day by the points are just points theory.


----------



## larsok (Jul 16, 2009)

I just purchased an annual platinum 2bd week at Coylumbridge (worth 7000 HGVC points) for GBP 2900 including legal fees.
The purchase is from the Hilton resales office (Cath). Given this price level, I think it is an excellent alternative to a LV property.


----------



## Talent312 (Jul 16, 2009)

larsok said:


> I just purchased an annual platinum 2bd week at Coylumbridge (worth 7000 HGVC points) for GBP 2900 including legal fees.
> The purchase is from the Hilton resales office (Cath). Given this price level, I think it is an excellent alternative to a LV property.



Congrats.  It sounds like a good deal.
BTW, I stayed at the Coylumbridge Hilton last May and they have major problem... The place is overrun with rabbits.  As dusk settles, the rabbits come out and just about anuywhere you look, are rabbits.  I don't have an issue with 'em, myself, but anyone with a rabbit-phobia should stay away.

Do buyers in Scotland have to pay the $395 initiation fee to join HGVC?


----------

