# Signed paperwork with WestGate yesterday... Trying to rescind...



## nzyy912

Hello all, I've been reading rescission processes on TUG. Thanks to lots and lots of useful posts. I finally realized how stupid yesterday I was at Orlando. I sign all those paperwork without knowing and even googleing Westgate timeshare.

Now I learned from here that I have 10 days (Florida) to rescind this. But I got one serious problem, which is I don't see the rescission processes in the document copies. I saw some people say Westgate never put copies of rescission procedures to our hand. So the problem is that I don't the exact address to send my rescission letter to. 

Below is a photo I just took for my funny contract copy. Please have a look.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gzyezv5ghkzopp/default.png?dl=0

I just noticed that my contract copy is shown above and apparently the lower part is covered with the waiver for loss of life. This is ridiculous!:annoyed::annoyed:

Which address do you guys think I need to send my rescission letter to? The top left one (Westgate town center, a Time share resort, 2770 Old lake wilson road, Kissimmee, Florida 34747) or the top right one (Seller/Developer Westgate vacation villas, LLC, A Florida limited liability company, 2801 old winter garden road ococee, Florida 34761)?


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## Passepartout

nzyy912 said:


> Westgate vacation villas, LLC, A Florida limited liability company, 2801 old winter garden road ococee, Florida 34761)?



It's this address. The contract is in a hidden pocket inside the back cover of the binder you got. The letter needn't be complex or legalese. Just, I, we wish to cancel the purchase of contract number xxxxxxx, dated 1/2x/2015. We expect return of all funds and dissolution of the contract for future payments. Promotional materials to be returned under separate cover.

Signed________ Husband, __________Wife. Date_______

Send their junk back where you got it by cheapest means.

Congratulations on finding TUG.

Jim


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## nzyy912

Thank you so much, Jim. You know what, I forgot to ask that I called the closing officer today and he says he can help me out with losing only $300, and I will walk out like a clean man. He's gonna send email tomorrow to walk me through on how to do it. Do you think I still need to use his service? 

BTW, I'm planning to call my lawyer tomorrow about this. Does this seem to be unnecessary anymore?


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## DeniseM

nzyy912 said:


> Thank you so much, Jim. You know what, I forgot to ask that I called the closing officer today and he says he can help me out with losing only $300, and I will walk out like a clean man. He's gonna send email tomorrow to walk me through on how to do it. Do you think I still need to use his service?



Do NOT talk to him - he is not your friend - he will do everything in his power to keep you from rescinding.  They have to give you all your money back - you should not lose $300.  



> BTW, I'm planning to call my lawyer tomorrow about this. Does this seem to be unnecessary anymore?



You don't need a lawyer - rescinding your your legal right - just follow the procedure exactly and you will be fine.


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## nzyy912

Thank you so much, Denise. You remind me that he could have been trying to delay my rescission, saying that he will cancel all the payment and all the contract.

BTW, I almost forgot again. I'm sorry. 

I applied the Westgate credit card and put down $3000 with that and $127 with my own credit card. Do I proceed with the exact same rescission process as others? How do I deal with the Westgate credit card later on?


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## DeniseM

Yes - You proceed with the exact same process, regardless of the payment source.  

If you have the CC info., I'd call and cancel the Westgate Credit card immediately, and also call your credit card and let them know you are exercising  your legal right to cancel your contract with Westgate, and that Westgate may not charge any additional charges to your card.

What is the $300 for?


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## nzyy912

Don't know. The closing officer just said I'm gonna have to lose that, which he later said covers service fee and court fee or whatever I didn't follow well.

Alright, I'll call my bank tomorrow after I go to USPS. And call to cancel Westgate CC. What if they refuse to cancel CC for me?


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## DonnaD

*Call both credit cards tonight*

I would call both credit cards tonight ASAP. Maybe the charges have not gone through yet. Block them before they get a penny, if you can, It gives you better negotiating position.
DonnaD


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## DeniseM

nzyy912 said:


> Don't know. The closing officer just said I'm gonna have to lose that, which he later said covers service fee and court fee or whatever I didn't follow well.
> 
> Alright, I'll call my bank tomorrow after I go to USPS. And call to cancel Westgate CC. What if they refuse to cancel CC for me?



You are going to call whoever issued the card to cancel it - Visa, or Mastercard, or whoever.  They will allow you to cancel the card - that won't eliminate the charges already made, but Westgate will have to refund you for that.  It will keep them from charging any additional fees on the card.

Donna has a good point - most cards have round the clock service available.


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## sue1947

nzyy912 said:


> Don't know. The closing officer just said I'm gonna have to lose that, which he later said covers service fee and court fee or whatever I didn't follow well.
> 
> Alright, I'll call my bank tomorrow after I go to USPS. And call to cancel Westgate CC. What if they refuse to cancel CC for me?



Sounds like the 'closing officer' is the sales person trying to keep at least some commission.  
In any case, pay no attention to him.  Send in the letter, cancel the credit cards and then come back and learn what you need here before putting any money down on a timeshare.   Westgate has the reputation for being the sleaziest operation in a pretty sleazy business (when it comes to timeshare sales).  
Congratulations on finding us in time.

Sue


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## RX8

sue1947 said:


> Sounds like the 'closing officer' is the sales person trying to keep at least some commission.



Either that or the closing officer is making money on the side without Westgate's knowledge by charging $300 for his "services" in telling you how to rescind.


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## nzyy912

Alright. Thank you all. I just called Westgate mastercard department and cancel the card (just googled westgate credit card and called the number for application). It was smoothie... But my Chase bank told me that only after the charge is posted (now is still pending) I can call the dispute department to file a dispute. Does all this sound good to you all?

Thanks and good night, guys!

Nan


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## nzyy912

Actually probably you are right. Cuz the closing officer was telling and reminding me not to contact Westgate any more. And mentioned that this is gonna be only between me and him.


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## Karen G

nzyy912 said:


> But my Chase bank told me that only after the charge is posted (now is still pending) I can call the dispute department to file a dispute. Does all this sound good to you all?
> 
> Thanks and good night, guys!
> 
> Nan


Yes, I think that's standard procedure that you can dispute a charge only after it has posted.


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## Passepartout

Do not talk to this closing agent or anyone else at wastegate. They are not your friends. They will try to save their commission by any means. Lying. Delaying you. Making promises. Reducing the inflated cost. 

Rescission means,'putting it back the way it was before starting'. No $300. No credit card. No Wastgate commission. No sale, nothing. Just lige their product is worth. Nothing.

Jim


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## TUGBrian

you are absolutely being conned out of $300 dollars.


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## theo

nzyy912 said:


> <snip> ...*I called the closing officer today and he says he can help me out* with losing only $300, and I will walk out like a clean man. He's gonna send email tomorrow to walk me through on how to do it. Do you think I still need to use his service?
> 
> BTW, I'm planning to call my lawyer tomorrow about this. Does this seem to be unnecessary anymore?



Rescinding is a legal right specifically provided by applicable state law. You do *not* need attorney assistance to exercise that straightforward legal right.
Any post-contract execution phone conversations and / or emails are completely meaningless, legally speaking. Don't be fooled into thinking otherwise.

Don't talk to these lying parasites again. Your properly submitted letter of rescission will do all the talking necessary. *100%* of your deposit must be refunded, with no penalty, no fees or *any* other cost to you (except that they can and will charge you $50 if you fail to return any "new owner" binder materials provided at purchase).


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## vacationhopeful

Theo is absolutely right -- do not talk to ANYONE from Westgate or the sales staff ... even if they say they are from Quality Assurance or an independent closing company ... THEY LIE!

Look everywhere on the "bag"/"soft briefcase" for the "hidden" compartment ... other posters have found it AFTER much searching ... that is HOW slick Westgate is ... legal (but just barely).


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## nzyy912

Thank you all again and again. 

Today I'm going to send the mail. But when do you guys think I need to send the binding materials? And also they gave me some gift (one is from the Travel Plan person), and also a $300 gift card for Cruise in the end after I finished my closing right before I left from the salesperson. Do you guys think I need to return all these gifts with the binding material to them? (I'm kinda still thinking if I can keep them since they voluntarily offered me, especially as to the $300 gift card. But if you guys agree that I should return it, I will do it without any doubt.)


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## csxjohn

nzyy912 said:


> Thank you all again and again.
> 
> Today I'm going to send the mail. But when do you guys think I need to send the binding materials? And also they gave me some gift (one is from the Travel Plan person), and also a $300 gift card for Cruise in the end after I finished my closing right before I left from the salesperson. Do you guys think I need to return all these gifts with the binding material to them? (I'm kinda still thinking if I can keep them since they voluntarily offered me, especially as to the $300 gift card. But if you guys agree that I should return it, I will do it without any doubt.)



If it were me I would not use any gift they gave me and send it back when they ask for it.


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## DeniseM

> Do you guys think I need to return all these gifts with the binding material to them?



Yes - they can charge you if you don't return them.


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## nzyy912

Alright. Thank you all. This is not the right time and occasion to gain that little bit of money. 

How about when should I mail the material to them? After they receive the letter, suggested by constant annoying phone calls from them? Or send it today as well?


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## Karen G

nzyy912 said:


> Do you guys think I need to return all these gifts with the binding material to them?


Return the binder via the cheapest shipping method you can find. But, any gifts they initially offered you in return for attending their sales presentation are yours to keep. You completed your end of the deal by attending and they need to keep their end of the deal by giving you whatever they said they would. That's a separate transaction from the signing of a contract and the rescinding of it.


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## Passepartout

Send back their promotional junk- you don't want it, do you? Wastegate has charged people $50 for it. As to gifts, they're yours. If they promised you something for attending the presentation, it's yours. They may call and try to badger you. Don't answer their calls. EVER! Nothing good can come of your having anything to do with them.

Re-read my post #2

Jim


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## DeniseM

Send the materials right away, so it doesn't delay the refund - in your rescinding letter, state that you are returning everything you received at the presentation, in a separate package.  

You can probably send the materials back less expensively using "media mail."  Include an itemized list of the contents, and a copy of your other letter.  I'd take a picture with my phone of the stamped and addressed pkg. at the post office window for my records.


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## nzyy912

Thank you all!

Alright, probably the last batch of questions before I go to USPS.
1. Do I need to make a copy of all the contracts they give me and send them together with the rescission letter? 
2. Can I use computer to print the words and sign by hand? (Really ugly handwriting)
3. Should I keep a copy of all the contracts until they refund me?


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## DeniseM

nzyy912 said:


> Thank you all!
> 
> Alright, probably the last batch of questions before I go to USPS.
> 1. Do I need to make a copy of all the contracts they give me and send them together with the rescission letter?



Just the main page or 2 of the contract



> 2. Can I use computer to print the words and sign by hand? (Really ugly handwriting)



Yes, definitely use the computer - it's a business letter.



> 3. Should I keep a copy of all the contracts until they refund me?



Just the main pages.


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## nzyy912

Sorry, more questions.

There is actually no main page. They hid the contract details in a super dirty way. Check out the link in my first post, which is a photo I took of the modified copy of the contract. They only left the top title part of the contract and covered the bottom part with "waiver for loss of life" and made a copy to me. What a dirty trick! Do you mean send a copy of this page to them? Or do you mean the "warranty deed and lien on real property"? Or the "truth in lending disclosure"? I'm so confused by these legal terms.


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## nzyy912

Whoops. That link is bad. Let me modify a little. Sorry~~~


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## nzyy912

Just fixed with a dropbox link... Please have a look.


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## DeniseM

The page that describes what you bought.  Did you find the "hidden" paperwork in the back of the pocket?


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## nzyy912

I think it's the "Contract for purchase and sale". But as what I said, that page only shows very limited information, whose bottom part is covered by the "waiver for loss of life". Check out the photo I took. You will see how dirty their trick is.


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## DeniseM

Do the best you can to find the pages that show what you bought.

Just to clarify - the Westgate materials have what others describe as a "hidden" pocket inside it with the most important Docs. - *did you find that pocket?*


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## Rent_Share

There is no need, 

 but in your case, 

 I might suggest you consult a real estate attorney for your peace of mind. 

 Keep in mind most of your documents have been scanned and are on a CD hidden in a pocket in your binder.


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## LannyPC

nzyy912 said:


> And also they gave me...a $300 gift card for Cruise ...



FWIW, a lot of these cruise vouchers are barely worth the paper on which they're written.  There are usually a lot of restrictions and conditions that must be followed.  You can usually find the same cruise on a reputable travel website (eg. Travelocity, Expedia, etc.) or even the cruise lines' web sites.

They also don't include the famous port charges and taxes.  Once all these are added up, you might even come out farther ahead using the travel or cruise lines' websites than using the gift card for a cruise.

But of course the real issue of this thread is rescinding your purchase and doing so exactly as instructed.  Once you have done that, we always recommend spending several months her on TUGbbs studying the ins and outs, ups and downs of timeshares.  That would include retail vs. resale
(resale almost always wins out ), points vs. weeks, floating vs. fixed, owning vs. renting, and even (yeah, I know this might seem sacrilegious to say on these boards but...) hotels vs. timeshares.  The key though is take your time to study everything and figure out what works best for you and your family before making any TS purchase including freebies.


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## nzyy912

I think, I think I found the hidden pocket. It has all the paperwork, but again, as to the contract, like what I said, it's a merged copy of the title of the contract and another document at the bottom that covers the rescission details and contract details. It only showed the title of the contract. I just talked with a lawyer online and he said it's not uncommon for these guys and he has the right way to access the full contract. But it's $200 per hour for the reviewing process. I'm trying to make a decision now.


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## nzyy912

Totally agree with you. Will never do anything without any research on it.


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## Passepartout

You are overthinking this. You said you found the hidden pocket and rescission istructions. Follow them exactly. No attorney necessary.  Sheesh!


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## csxjohn

nzyy912 said:


> I think, I think I found the hidden pocket. It has all the paperwork, but again, as to the contract, like what I said, it's a merged copy of the title of the contract and another document at the bottom that covers the rescission details and contract details. It only showed the title of the contract. I just talked with a lawyer online and he said it's not uncommon for these guys and he has the right way to access the full contract. But it's $200 per hour for the reviewing process. I'm trying to make a decision now.



From what I've read in the past that hidden pocket will contain a CD which you will put in your computer and it should have all the pertinent documents which you can then print out.  The rescission instructions should be on that CD.


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## DeniseM

You don't need an attorney - follow the rescission process, and just get it done.  It's your legal right to rescind and it does not require the assistance of an attorney.


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## nzyy912

On the way to USPS. Also my friend suggested me to cc to Florida Attorney General.

Just double check that I don't have to have the full contract right? I just included the photocopied modified contract first page and the warranty deed page and the rescission letter.

Does this sound good to you all?


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## DeniseM

Did you find a DVD?


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## Rent_Share

nzyy912 said:


> On the way to USPS. Also my friend suggested me to cc to Florida Attorney General.
> 
> Just double check that I don't have to have the full contract right? I just included the photocopied modified contract first page and the warranty deed page and the rescission letter.
> 
> Does this sound good to you all?



Your full name and signatures of all purchasers as well as the property name and date of signing should be specific enough if you cannot find a unique transaction number.

IMHO there is no need to copy any regulatory agency, just make sure you have proof of mailing via certified mail. Do not concern yourself about proof of delivery or acknowledgement from Westgate, they are not necessary for a valid rescission.

This is something a person can do for themselves and the law makes is very easy, unfortunately you ran into a sales organization that goes out of their way to hide the information. Since you seemed so nervous in the tone of your posts, I suggested that you might find peace of mind by using a hour of attorney's time since you initially seemed to be prepared to turn over $ 300 to Westgate. You seem to be comfortable with the process so I will retract that advice,

Within your documentation you should find a separate credit agreement for the credit card. Contact them to close the account If you receive a statement with any charges dispute them. They can charge you for the binder and their documentation, Return that to them, the cheapest postage is Media Mail (Printed or Magnetic Media), I so believe you can get tracking information for very little extra. 

Good Luck And Welcome toTUG


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## Passepartout

nzyy912 said:


> On the way to USPS. Also my friend suggested me to cc to Florida Attorney General.
> 
> Just double check that I don't have to have the full contract right? I just included the photocopied modified contract first page and the warranty deed page and the rescission letter.
> 
> Does this sound good to you all?



That is far more than you  need to  show that your intentions are to rescind. But nevermind, and just send it certified, w/return receipt.


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## nzyy912

Thanks to all of you! Just came back from USPS. Took a photo of the postmark. Instead of using a certified mail, I used overnight express mail that has a return receipt. It would be the same as certified mail according to USPS people. 

Thanks for your understanding. I indeed need a peaceful mind. I probably can get it by talking to that attorney. What I did is that I made an appointment with a lawyer on Friday afternoon (Friday will be the 5th day after my signature at Westgate). But if from tomorrow on upon the receipt of the rescission letter, they probably will start to call me again and again, which means I probably did the right thing for rescission. In this case, I'll probably feel peaceful without talking to a lawyer and then I can cancel the appointment.


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## DeniseM

You really don't talk need to talk to an attorney at this point.  They will tell you the same thing we did (and we're free.)  Unless you are preparing to sue Westgate, an attorney can't do anything for you, at this point.

Take a deep breath and be prepared to wait 30 - 45 days to get your money back.

If you don't get it back - then consider talking to an attorney - but not now. 

Also - *Don't talk to Westgate - period* - you talking to them, or them talking to you has no impact on rescinding.  If they call, let the answering machine pick up, and listen to the message.  

*I'm sorry if I missed this - but did you find the DVD?*


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## bogey21

Passepartout said:


> You are overthinking this. You said you found the hidden pocket and rescission istructions. Follow them exactly. No attorney necessary.  Sheesh!



Agree 100%.

George


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## nzyy912

Thank you! I agree with you. 

No, I haven't found any CD or DVD. Do you think there is any problem here?


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## nzyy912

Here is the sample I used (of course with my information), and I added and highlighted that "I will mail back all the binding materials in time" in the end. What do you guys think?



Timeshare Owner Name
XXXX Address Lane
City, ST Zip Code
Contact Phone Number
Fax Number
E-mail Address 

Timeshare Company
 XXXXX Address Place
 City, ST Zip Code
 Contact Phone Number
 Fax Number
Current Date

Attention Customer Service, 

The purpose of this letter is regarding the required cancellation of my timeshare contract. My name is (enter your name here) and I purchased a timeshare with (enter timeshare company) on (enter purchase date). Per the contract regarding this timeshare, I am contacting you within the rescission period in order to cancel this timeshare contract. 

Timeshare: Generic Name Resorts
 Owner: Timeshare Owner Name
 Contract Number: XXXXXXXX
 Date of Purchase: XX-XX-XXXX 

I’ve made the decision to cancel my contract for the following reasons:

1. Upon my initial investment into the timeshare I felt this was an opportunity I could afford. Now that I have taken the time to properly analyze my financial situation, I feel this is no longer a smart investment.

2. While there are many unique opportunities found at this location, there are many other expenses associated with owning a timeshare that I did not account for.

To clarify, I need to cancel my timeshare contract immediately. Please provide me with a written response showing you have received this letter within the rescission period. Additionally, please provide me with the information I will require to receive my initial deposit.

Sincerely,

Timeshare owner name


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## DeniseM

nzyy912 said:


> Thank you! I agree with you.
> 
> No, I haven't found any CD or DVD. Do you think there is any problem here?



No - but as others have posted, it's usually in a *hidden pocket* and it has a *copy of your contract* on it.


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## nzyy912

Really? Is it always like that? I tried to find the hidden pocket. But didn't see it. I'll ask my wife to help tonight to see if there is such pocket. Would it be illegal if they don't give me the contract or modified the photocopy of the contract?


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## Passepartout

Did all signors of the the contract sign the  recission letter? This is most important!!! 

And it is completely unnecessary to provide any reason for rescinding. Doing so only a gives them ammunition to address your complaints.

You should not  send  that letter. Follow my simple template in #2

Jim


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## csxjohn

I'm glad you sent the letter but I see that you are not following much of the advice here.  You did not have to overnight it because the only thing that matters is the day you sent it.  You did not keep it simple as suggested, no need to give them reasons.  Because as someone pointed out, you are over thinking this you've decided to add to what you need to do.

You will definitely be hearing from Westgate to tell you why your reasons to rescind are all wrong and why you should still buy from them.

Please follow this advice to the letter.  

DO NOT TALK, WRITE, OR HAVE ANY CONTACT AT ALL WITH THEM FROM THIS POINT ON.

If you do, you may inadvertently cancel your rescission.  

Remember also, if anyone else signed the agreement, they have to sign the rescission also.


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## theo

*Don't unnecessarily complicate that which is really quite simple...*



nzyy912 said:


> Here is the sample I used (of course with my information), and I added and highlighted that "I will mail back all the binding materials in time" in the end. What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> 
> Timeshare Owner Name
> XXXX Address Lane
> City, ST Zip Code
> Contact Phone Number
> Fax Number
> E-mail Address
> 
> Timeshare Company
> XXXXX Address Place
> City, ST Zip Code
> Contact Phone Number
> Fax Number
> Current Date
> 
> Attention Customer Service,
> 
> The purpose of this letter is regarding the required cancellation of my timeshare contract. My name is (enter your name here) and I purchased a timeshare with (enter timeshare company) on (enter purchase date). Per the contract regarding this timeshare, I am contacting you within the rescission period in order to cancel this timeshare contract.
> 
> Timeshare: Generic Name Resorts
> Owner: Timeshare Owner Name
> Contract Number: XXXXXXXX
> Date of Purchase: XX-XX-XXXX
> 
> I’ve made the decision to cancel my contract for the following reasons:
> 
> 1. Upon my initial investment into the timeshare I felt this was an opportunity I could afford. Now that I have taken the time to properly analyze my financial situation, I feel this is no longer a smart investment.
> 
> 2. While there are many unique opportunities found at this location, there are many other expenses associated with owning a timeshare that I did not account for.
> 
> To clarify, I need to cancel my timeshare contract immediately. Please provide me with a written response showing you have received this letter within the rescission period. Additionally, please provide me with the information I will require to receive my initial deposit.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Timeshare owner name



1. You do not need to offer *any* reasons or explanations or extraneous, irrelevant commentary to exercise your legal right to rescind (cancel).  

2. Your rescission letter need only say "I hereby exercise my legal right to rescind the contract (copy attached for reference) executed on (insert contract date). 
Then affix original signature(s) of any and all persons who signed the original contract. Period, amen, done. Return *all* of the relatively worthless trinkets and gifts issued to you too, either separately or simultaneously, unless you received (and retained)  something in writing *before* the "presentation", very clearly stating that the gifts / trinkets were yours to keep for merely attending the "presentation". Westgate simply can *never* be trusted --- do you really want a later fight over some trinkets and baubles of little or no real value?  

3. Regardless of any request you make, the developer (Westgate, in this instance) is under *no* obligation to provide you with *any* later confirmation or verification regarding your rescission. They must cancel your contract and issue you a *100%* refund within a maximum of 45 days. No more, no less. You *might* see your refund sooner than 45 days, but Westgate has been known to take most of that 45 days maximum.  Do *not* answer any phone calls or emails you receive on this matter and do not initiate any phone calls or emails on this matter either. 

This is not a moon launch; it's very simple and straightforward. Don't complicate it unnecessarily --- just follow the clear and specific advice provided to you here.


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## LannyPC

I'll repeat what John said in that you do not need to supply reasons for your rescission.  These salespeople know what your reasons are.  They know that they sell overpriced worthless property.  But you've already sent it in.  Now just sit back and wait for your rescission request to be procesed.  

The money might take up to 45 days to refund so, if you do not receive your refund immediately, don't go calling anyone involved with Westgate.  Stay off the phone with them.


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## nzyy912

Thank you all very very much. I really appreciate all the help I got from TUG. I'm kinda overthinking it.

But I just wanna make sure that this won't hurt me much right? As long as I don't answer any phone call from Orlando? I got several already from the closing officer and another unknown Orlando number.

Like LannyPC just said, I can pretty much relieve and sit back and wait for the refund. Right?

BTW, I canceled the Westgate credit card last night according to the suggestions and now waiting until my own Chase credit card processed the leftover money ($127), and I'll file a dispute through Chase.

Does all these sound alright to you all?

Thanks a lot! I just don't know how much thanks I'd say to you all. If any of you need a little bit commission, I'd love to offer as long as all these stressful processes are over.


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## DeniseM

*By law, they must give you a full refund - they have no option.*

It doesn't matter what they say on the phone - phone conversations change nothing.

If you talk to them:
- they are going to lie to you (again)
- they are going to harass you
- you may accidentally cancel your rescission

These people are not your friends - talking to them will only cause you aggravation, and confusion because YOU CAN'T BELIEVE A WORD THEY SAY.

Cut them off, and wait for the refund - period.


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## nzyy912

Nice. I just hope I did the rescission in a pretty much proper way. I'm not going to answer any phone call from Orlando.

I didn't know that as csxjohn said the day I sent out the mail matters rather than the day they received.

Thank you all and hopefully everything is gonna be solved smoothly.


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## pedro47

DeniseM said:


> *By law, they must give you a full refund - they have no option.*
> 
> It doesn't matter what they say on the phone - phone conversations change nothing.
> 
> If you talk to them:
> - they are going to lie to you (again)
> - they are going to harass you
> - you may accidentally cancel your rescission
> 
> These people are not your friends - talking to them will only cause you aggravation, and confusion because YOU CAN'T BELIEVE A WORD THEY SAY.
> 
> Cut them off, and wait for the refund - period.



Please follow DeniseM suggestions and wait in the mail for your refund. Please Do not talk them for .0001 second.


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## Passepartout

nzyy912 said:


> Thanks a lot! I just don't know how much thanks I'd say to you all. If any of you need a little bit commission, I'd love to offer as long as all these stressful processes are over.



If you buy or use timeshares, just join TUG ($15yr)


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## theo

nzyy912 said:


> <snip> I sent out the mail...<snip>



When you say "sent out" I hope that specifically means *by certified mail* for which you now have in your possession a date stamped *postmark* receipt. 
That *postmark date* on your hand-stamped receipt from the USPS counter represents your documentary proof of having met the state law deadline, in the event that any such proof should ever become necessary in the future. With sleazy and slimy Westgate, you can just really never be *too* careful.

If you have followed the specific advice provided to you here you have nothing more to worry about. Westgate is *required by law* to process a timely and properly submitted rescission. They are not doing you a personal favor and they have absolutely no other choice or option available to them --- *it's the law*. Period, amen.


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## DeniseM

pssssst Theo - she posted the mailing details above


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## nzyy912

Yes I did. As I mentioned, I didn't use certified mail because I didn't know that it's the day you sent out that should be within 10 days. I thought it has to arrive there within 10 days. Therefore, I used overnight shipping with return receipt, and I also took a photo of the postmark.


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## theo

DeniseM said:


> pssssst Theo - she posted the mailing details above



Sorry, my oversight. Tired brain (and body) --- just in from several hours of snow blowing / shoveling well over two feet of new snow and it's still falling steadily.


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## Rent_Share

IMHO you should send a copy by CERTIFIED MAIL  IMMV


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## nzyy912

Rent_Share said:


> IMHO you should send a copy by CERTIFIED MAIL  IMMV




You think I need to resend a certified mail, and overnight mail with the return receipt and postmark is not sufficient?


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## csxjohn

Rent_Share said:


> IMHO you should send a copy by CERTIFIED MAIL  IMMV





nzyy912 said:


> You think I need to resend a certified mail, and overnight mail with the return receipt and postmark is not sufficient?



Rent_Share, I'm thinking that overnight mail through the US Post Office is as good as certified since there was a return receipt given.  I'd hate to see the OP worry about this aspect of it.  I'm thinking it's just as good but since you brought it up you may have missed where a return receipt was issued.  ???


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## nzyy912

csxjohn said:


> Rent_Share, I'm thinking that overnight mail through the US Post Office is as good as certified since there was a return receipt given.  I'd hate to see the OP worry about this aspect of it.  I'm thinking it's just as good but since you brought it up you may have missed where a return receipt was issued.  ???



I'm sorry I don't understand your last sentence. What do you mean by where a return receipt was issued? It's just a green card from USPS, isn't it?


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## csxjohn

nzyy912 said:


> I'm sorry I don't understand your last sentence. What do you mean by where a return receipt was issued? It's just a green card from USPS, isn't it?



When you send something certified and request a return receipt, you will get notice when the item is delivered.

I think when you overnight something with the post office you get a receipt showing you mailed it and you can track it to know when it's delivered.


The important thing is a receipt from the post office showing you mailed the letter.  

If you every need that receipt to prove you mailed something, never ever send the original.  Make a copy and send that, if it's ever needed.  In fact anything you may have to sent to Westgate from here on out should not be an original but a copy.

I'm looking for others to weigh in but I don't think you need to send another letter but if you are uneasy, take your time, compose a simple letter and send it out certified with a return receipt.

I don't think you need it but let's see what others say.  You have a few days so no panic.


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## Rent_Share

Some contracts are  specific as to the method of delivery, certified mail being the most common for any notices required under a contract, based on it's legacy of being independently verifiable as to the sending date and receiving date.  If anyone would challenge a rescission based on the type of envelope used Segal's gang would

 Lacking the contract copy I looked up the Florida Statute:



			
				721.06 said:
			
		

> 3. You may cancel this contract without any penalty or obligation within 10 calendar days after the date you sign this contract or the date on which you receive the last of all documents required to be given to you pursuant to section 721.07(6), Florida Statutes, whichever is later.
> 
> If you decide to cancel this contract, you must notify the seller in writing of your intent to cancel. *Your notice of cancellation shall be effective upon the date sent* and shall be sent to   (Name of Seller)   at   (Address of Seller)  .
> 
> Any attempt to obtain a waiver of your cancellation right is void and of no effect. While you may execute all closing documents in advance, the closing, as evidenced by delivery of the deed or other document, before expiration of your 10-day cancellation period, is prohibited.​



​ Since the Florida Statute doesn't specify Method of delivery as long as their is *proof of sending  *you should be fine.


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## nzyy912

Rent_Share said:


> Some contracts are  specific as to the method of delivery, certified mail being the most common for any notices required under a contract, based on it's legacy of being independently verifiable as to the sending date and receiving date.  If anyone would challenge a rescission based on the type of envelope used Segal's gang would
> 
> Lacking the contract copy I looked up the Florida Statute:
> 
> 
> 
> [/INDENT] Since the Florida Statute doesn't specify Method of delivery as long as their is *proof of sending  *you should be fine.



Thanks a lot! This seems to be very convincing! I'm just curious. How do you guys find these stuff? Are you guys all lawyers? It's too much jargon and too many words. Anyway, thank you very much!


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## davidvel

nzyy912 said:


> Thanks a lot! This seems to be very convincing! I'm just curious. How do you guys find these stuff? *Are you guys all lawyers?* It's too much jargon and too many words. Anyway, thank you very much!


Practically.


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## vacationhopeful

Whether ANYONE is a lawyer or not, no lawyer will admit to providing legal advice a BBS on the internet.

MANY of us are giving you advice based on our own personal experiences and personal opinions.

I use Certified Mail, Return Receipt weekly in my real life world --- it is the way written legal notice and demands are given.


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## Rent_Share

vacationhopeful said:


> Whether ANYONE is a lawyer or not, no lawyer will admit to providing legal advice a BBS on the internet.
> 
> MANY of us are giving you advice based on our own personal experiences and personal opinions.
> 
> I use Certified Mail, Return Receipt weekly in my real life world --- it is the way written legal notice and demands are given.



Me too, there is a little known way to get proof of mailing and only spending 47 additional cents instead if the ~ $7.00 for Certified / Return Receipt

 Certificate of Mailing USOS (PS Form 3817


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## theo

vacationhopeful said:


> I use Certified Mail, Return Receipt weekly in my real life world...



Linda, I am prompted by the above statement to wonder what *other* world you inhabit and operate within --- other than your "real life world" referenced above?


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## TUGBrian

when making a decision worth potentially tens of thousands of dollars that you only get one small window to make....most folks are thankful that so many take the time to be as detailed and to the point as possible to ensure you dont make a huge mistake that costs you all that money which is so easily avoided!


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## vacationhopeful

theo said:


> Linda, I am prompted by the above statement to wonder what *other* world you inhabit and operate within --- other than your "real life world" referenced above?



Theo,
My day job ... the world in which timesharing does not exist. Where people have never gone on a vacation and sometimes, have never been anywhere more than a 30 minute drive from their place of birth --- unless they were drafted into the military or cuffed & placed in custody.


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## csxjohn

theo said:


> Linda, I am prompted by the above statement to wonder what *other* world you inhabit and operate within --- other than your "real life world" referenced above?



I know she's often stuck here in Timeshare World with the rest of us.:hysterical:


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## nzyy912

Do you guys get a return receipt as a paper or an email? I'm trying to request a return receipt on USPS tracking page. There is an error. But it already shows that it's signed and received by Westgate people. Do you guys think it's good enough already?


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## nzyy912

TUGBrian said:


> when making a decision worth potentially tens of thousands of dollars that you only get one small window to make....most folks are thankful that so many take the time to be as detailed and to the point as possible to ensure you dont make a huge mistake that costs you all that money which is so easily avoided!





I super appreciate my friend help on the first day after I purchased the Westgate timeshare. Without her searching for me, I even couldn't find TUG and you guys here. Of course, I just don't know how to thank you guys.

Now my rescission letter has been signed and received by Westgate people. Let's see what they do later on.


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## billymach4

You found tug. The land of milk and honey.

Happy for you:whoopie:


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## Rent_Share

nzyy912 said:


> I super appreciate my friend help on the first day after I purchased the Westgate timeshare. Without her searching for me, I even couldn't find TUG and you guys here. Of course, I just don't know how to thank you guys.
> 
> Now my rescission letter has been signed and received by Westgate people. Let's see what they do later on.



Your anxiety and inexperience was coming through in your posts, with my lack of patience in carefully explaining things in type, I initially suggested that you might be more comfortable hiring a professional than worrying about it for the 45 - 60 days Westgate is going to drag you out to complete the reversal.

 Except for arguing against the need for a professional, the message from all of the contributors was prompt and consistent.

 The scary thing is I believe TUG is less than 5 % of all timeshare owners, many of the other 95 % know nothing if the resale market and valuation.


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## Cheryl20772

nzyy912 said:


> Do you guys get a return receipt as a paper or an email? I'm trying to request a return receipt on USPS tracking page. There is an error. But it already shows that it's signed and received by Westgate people. Do you guys think it's good enough already?



If you had sent your letter by certified US mail with return receipt requested, it might have taken 3 or 4 days to be delivered and another couple of days for a return receipt to come back to you with the signature of the person who accepted the letter. 

I think you opted to send your letter by Express (overnight) mail? That method provides you with a receipt showing that you mailed the letter, tracking and digital verification, but I don't think it provides you with a return receipt... unless you paid for one extra.

Ultimately for you, the most important thing for you from the postal service is the receipt you got when you mailed the letter. You're done with the Post Office now. All you can do for now is wait a week or so and see if you get your money back. Others here will tell you how long to expect to wait.

Welcome to TUG


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## nzyy912

Cheryl20772 said:


> If you had sent your letter by certified US mail with return receipt requested, it might have taken 3 or 4 days to be delivered and another couple of days for a return receipt to come back to you with the signature of the person who accepted the letter.
> 
> I think you opted to send your letter by Express (overnight) mail? That method provides you with a receipt showing that you mailed the letter, tracking and digital verification, but I don't think it provides you with a return receipt... unless you paid for one extra.
> 
> Ultimately for you, the most important thing for you from the postal service is the receipt you got when you mailed the letter. You're done with the Post Office now. All you can do for now is wait a week or so and see if you get your money back. Others here will tell you how long to expect to wait.
> 
> Welcome to TUG



Yes. I used overnight mail and bought an extra return receipt. Here is the link of USPS tracking.
https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?qtc_tLabels1=EK532747671US

I've never used return receipt. What am I expecting to get from USPS?


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## nzyy912

Rent_Share said:


> Your anxiety and inexperience was coming through in your posts, with my lack of patience in carefully explaining things in type, I initially suggested that you might be more comfortable hiring a professional than worrying about it for the 45 - 60 days Westgate is going to drag you out to complete the reversal.
> 
> Except for arguing against the need for a professional, the message from all of the contributors was prompt and consistent.
> 
> The scary thing is I believe TUG is less than 5 % of all timeshare owners, many of the other 95 % know nothing if the resale market and valuation.



You are totally right man, I mean about me. Like you said, I may end up getting a peaceful mind after talking with an attorney. But now I'm still kinda in a good shape listening to you guys opinion.

Thank you all!

Nan


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## davidvel

Someone stated that all buyers must sign rescission. Assuming this is true,  was this done? If not,  and is required,  still time to send second letter.


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## nzyy912

davidvel said:


> Someone stated that all buyers must sign rescission. Assuming this is true,  was this done? If not,  and is required,  still time to send second letter.



What?! You are saying I need to send a second rescission letter to them?


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## Passepartout

nzyy912 said:


> What?! You are saying I need to send a second rescission letter to them?



Only if not every person who signed the original contract signed the rescission letter. It absolutely must be signed by every buyer, or  will surely be disallowed. You gotta understand, these thieves play hardball.

I told you this in #2 and in #52. You are well on your way to being your own worst enemy.

Jim


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## nzyy912

Passepartout said:


> Only if not every person who signed the original contract signed the rescission letter. It absolutely must be signed by every buyer, or  will surely be disallowed. You gotta understand, these thieves play hardball.
> 
> I told you this in #2 and in #52. You are well on your way to being your own worst enemy.
> 
> Jim



Thanks Jim. Yeah, I understand this. When we were buying the timeshare, my wife only signed one or two paperwork. Then because they found out that she doesn't have social security number, so they put this under my name. At least, on the modified contract, it shows only my name in the buyer. I'm kinda thinking to send another one with my wife's signature tomorrow, just in case.


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## Passepartout

nzyy912 said:


> Thanks Jim. Yeah, I understand this. When we were buying the timeshare, my wife only signed one or two paperwork. Then because they found out that she doesn't have social security number, so they put this under my name. At least, on the modified contract, it shows only my name in the buyer. I'm kinda thinking to send another one with my wife's signature tomorrow, just in case.



Wastegate has no scruples about selling to foreigners (non US citizens). that your wife has no SSN won't slow them a second from not allowing you to rescind. Send another letter. Both signatures, and no reasons they can argue about.

Don't give them a chance to do anything but process the rescission. It is your RIGHT, and no reason is required.

Jim


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## nzyy912

Passepartout said:


> Wastegate has no scruples about selling to foreigners (non US citizens). that your wife has no SSN won't slow them a second from not allowing you to rescind. Send another letter. Both signatures, and no reasons they can argue about.
> 
> Don't give them a chance to do anything but process the rescission. It is your RIGHT, and no reason is required.
> 
> Jim



Alright. I'll send another one tomorrow. This time I know that I'll just need a slow certified mail, and it doesn't have arrive there within 10 days.

Thank you Jim.


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## theo

*Yessa!*



Passepartout said:


> <snip> *Send another letter. Both signatures, and no reasons...* <snip>
> 
> Don't give them a chance to do anything but process the rescission. It is your RIGHT, and no reason is required.



Well said. This is good advice. Follow it, or fail to do so at your peril. Use certified mail this time too --- and save the original date-stamped USPS counter receipt.


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## Cheryl20772

nzyy912 said:


> Yes. I used overnight mail and bought an extra return receipt. Here is the link of USPS tracking.
> https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?qtc_tLabels1=EK532747671US
> 
> I've never used return receipt. What am I expecting to get from USPS?



The return receipt is usually in the form of a green postcard. It will come back to you by first class mail; so can take a few days from when the person receiving the mail signed it.

If you don't get it by one week, then the post office dropped the ball. The PO probably has a digital copy of the signature and should be able to provide that. They have updated their system since I worked there and I think they store digital credentials now.


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## nzyy912

Just give you guys an update. I used certified mail today with the second rescission letter that has both mine and my wife's signature on it, using Jim's short and simple version, although my wife didn't sign any of the closing document. But just in case, as you all agreed.


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## DeniseM

nzyy912 said:


> Just give you guys an update. I used certified mail today with the second rescission letter that has both mine and my wife's signature on it, using Jim's short and simple version, although my wife didn't sign any of the closing document. But just in case, as you all agreed.



Good move!

Curious - Has the guy who was going to "help you out" for $300 called?


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## nzyy912

DeniseM said:


> Good move!
> 
> Curious - Has the guy who was going to "help you out" for $300 called?




Of course he did. But just like what you guys told me, I never answered his call, and he also texted me "call me asap, please". I just laughed and deleted the message.


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## 55plus

It appears you are now well schooled on buying a timeshare. Take the knowledge you acquired from this website and go prosper with an extra tens of thousands of dollars in your pocket...


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## csxjohn

morrisjim said:


> It appears you are now well schooled on buying a timeshare. Take the knowledge you acquired from this website and go prosper with an extra tens of thousands of dollars in your pocket...



I agree, you seem to have settled down and are now thinking clearly.  Good luck with you future endeavors in Timeshare World.


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## nzyy912

Thank you all and TUGgers... Basicall saved my life... I don't have to end up being thrown onto street.


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## LannyPC

nzyy912 said:


> I don't have to end up being thrown onto street.



I don't know if you *literally* mean that or if that's hyperbole (exaggeration).  If you literally mean that, then I have an even lower view of TS sales people.  

They don't check to see if potential buyers have the means to purchase and keep up with the MFs.  All they care about is making a sale.  So you break the bank buying an interval but, because you're now homeless and probably jobless, you can't afford the MFs and, hence, can't afford to use the interval that you just paid tens of thousands for.


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## nzyy912

LannyPC said:


> I don't know if you *literally* mean that or if that's hyperbole (exaggeration).  If you literally mean that, then I have an even lower view of TS sales people.
> 
> They don't check to see if potential buyers have the means to purchase and keep up with the MFs.  All they care about is making a sale.  So you break the bank buying an interval but, because you're now homeless and probably jobless, you can't afford the MFs and, hence, can't afford to use the interval that you just paid tens of thousands for.



It's an exaggeration. But it's a huge money to me cuz I'm a only a graduate student with monthly stipend. I have some savings but after paying all the timeshare money, I'll lost 50% of all my savings, and I got a wife, too.


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## DeniseM

nzyy912 said:


> It's an exaggeration. But it's a huge money to me cuz I'm a only a graduate student with monthly stipend. I have some savings but after paying all the timeshare money, I'll lost 50% of all my savings, and I got a wife, too.



You should not be in the market for a timeshare - WAIT until you are established in your career, and have purchased some of the more important things in life, and socked some money away.


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## csxjohn

nzyy912 said:


> It's an exaggeration. But it's a huge money to me cuz I'm a only a graduate student with monthly stipend. I have some savings but after paying all the timeshare money, I'll lost 50% of all my savings, and I got a wife, too.



If you think that timeshare is going to cost a chunk of your savings, wait until you see what a wife can do to it.:hysterical:


Before you all jump on me this is totally a joke but I agree with Denise, this hardly seems the time to be looking at timeshares.


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## nzyy912

DeniseM said:


> You should not be in the market for a timeshare - WAIT until you are established in your career, and have purchased some of the more important things in life, and socked some money away.



Yeap. Feel like I'm changed a lot mentally after this timeshare accident. Many thanks to you all!


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## nzyy912

csxjohn said:


> If you think that timeshare is going to cost a chunk of your savings, wait until you see what a wife can do to it.:hysterical:
> 
> 
> Before you all jump on me this is totally a joke but I agree with Denise, this hardly seems the time to be looking at timeshares.



Fortunately, I got a pretty economical wife... Hahaha... She's learning sewing instead of buying from mall. I was telling her we should go out to have a big celebration meal this weekend.


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## Passepartout

nzyy912 said:


> Fortunately, I got a pretty economical wife... Hahaha... She's learning sewing instead of buying from mall. I was telling her we should go out to have a big celebration meal this weekend.



Celebrate after your cash is back in your accounts. It might take 45 days, and they are under no obligation to keep you informed of the progress. Can you say, 'stressed'.

Jim


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## nzyy912

Passepartout said:


> Celebrate after your cash is back in your accounts. It might take 45 days, and they are under no obligation to keep you informed of the progress. Can you say, 'stressed'.
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim, I just thought of a question about the refund process.

Since I've already cancel their credit card and filed a dispute on the $127 through my own Chase credit card. What would be the sign for their refund to me?

Thanks,

Nan


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## DeniseM

nzyy912 said:


> Hi Jim, I just thought of a question about the refund process.
> 
> Since I've already cancel their credit card and filed a dispute on the $127 through my own Chase credit card. What would be the sign for their refund to me?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nan



Just because you cancelled the card, doesn't mean you don't owe the money that was charged on the card - it's still owed on the closed acct., and the funds will be refunded to the closed Acct.  

The CC Co. should send you a statement, but if they don't, you can still call and verify that it's been refunded.  In fact, you may receive a bill for a payment on this Acct., before you receive the refund - which is why it's important to formally dispute the charges.

Closing the Acct. only prevents FUTURE charges on the Acct.  It's still your Acct. - it's just closed.


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## nzyy912

DeniseM said:


> Just because you cancelled the card, doesn't mean you don't owe the money that was charge on the card - it's still owed on the closed acct., and the funds will be refunded to the closed Acct.
> 
> The CC Co. should send you a statement, but if they don't, you can still call and verify that it's been refunded.  In fact, you may receive a bill for a payment on this Acct., before you receive the refund - which is why it's important to formally dispute the charges.
> 
> Closing the Acct. only prevents FUTURE charges on the Acct.  It's still your Acct. - it's just closed.



Alright. That makes things easier. I'll just call them to confirm zero balance on that credit card after 45 days.


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## nzyy912

Hi guys, got one more question here.

I mailed back all the materials from Westgate. But I kept all the contract paperwork. I was thinking that at any rate those are all photocopies. So just wanna confirm this with you guys. Do I have to send all the copies of the contract back to them also?

Thank you all!


----------



## Karen G

nzyy912 said:


> Do I have to send all the copies of the contract back to them also?
> 
> Thank you all!


No, that's not necessary.


----------

