# Friends are going to Disney, staying at Westgate Vacation Villages



## teachingmyown (Dec 8, 2007)

...any suggestions?  

I've never been to this resort and so I've been reading the reviews to try to figure out what to tell them.  It looks like in a nutshell, they can expect...



middle range quality of unit...not the most luxurious, but not the worst


a strong effort to get them to participate in a high pressure sales tour in return for some reward


lots of activities, but few if any are free


very close to Disney, but congested traffic

Does this about sum it up?  They are a family of 10 and so have a 10/6 unit, 2 bedroom with loft.  She is hoping for an included laundry--is that a probable, a possible or a nothing-doin'?

Can anyone shed more light on the activities card that WVV offers?  The RCI rep said that it is $30/week/family of 6.  Since their family is 10, will they need to purchase two, or use it a few at at time, or what?

If they decide to take the sales tour (after all, breakfast for 10 may be tempting) what should they hold out for as far as incentive?

Any other tips or suggestions?  They are going in January.


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## EZ-ED (Dec 8, 2007)

We were at WVV last year in a two bedroom, two bath unit and it had a washer/dryer in the unit. We arrived around 7pm so we were able to skip the almost mandatory timeshare salesperson escort to the unit. 

Once we got into our unit it was quite spacious but other than that it was an ok experience but nothing exceptional. We unplugged the phone and did not look into any of the resort activities other than the pools. As I recall we traded in with an accommodation certificate.


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## bnoble (Dec 8, 2007)

Traffic will be non-existant if they head north on Entry Point as they leave the "main entrance" to the resort.  Cross US-192, and they'll be on Sherbeth, which is an unmarked "back entrance" to WDW property.  It will take them up to Osceola Pkwy near the Animal Kingdom Lodge.  Everything else Disney is to the right---including AKL, which has a legal U-turn coming up quick, so they'll need to get over to the left ASAP for that one.


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## timeos2 (Dec 8, 2007)

*Weasels to the left - Weasels to the Right.  Fight Fight Fight!*

Friends don't let friends stay at Wastegate. Not without arming them with full instructions on how to avoid the numerous weasel attacks. Please do your duty.

If they attend the sales meeting - a mistake - take the kids. Let them run around. Time them by laying a watch on the table and saying "Your XX minutes start now" and hold them to it.  Escalate the volume if they try to withhold the gift or take beyond the agreed to time. Remember the crap breakfast (and that may be literally what they serve)  time doesn't count toward the XX minutes so if you risk the food scarf it fast & start the clock.  NEVER buy from them. And be prepared to start talking - loudly - about how CHEAP RESALES ARE - WHY WOULD I BUY FROM YOU?  

And enjoy making the weasels squirm. It's the best part.


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## JLB (Dec 9, 2007)

I see my work has already been done here.

Weasels and Sherburth, that about sums it up.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 9, 2007)

Which resort is next to Westgate Lakes?  That resort is a DUMP!  The grounds look like they just gave up maintaining them.  I would never stay in an older Westgate.  The new ones, they do a good job of keeping nice, but the old are looking worse all the time.


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## JLB (Dec 9, 2007)

Would you stay at Vistana or Orange Lake?  

Those and Wastegate make up the original Big 3 in Orlando.



rickandcindy23 said:


> I would never stay in an older Westgate.


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 9, 2007)

We have stayed at Vistana Fountains, which needed major refurbishments.   We also stayed at Orange Lake, in the West Village, on So. Magnolia, which also needed major refurbishments.  I will never get Rick to Orange Lake again, unless I can promise a nicer unit, which I cannot.   I think he would be willing to go to Vistana again, but why go there?  I would much rather stay here at Vistana Villages again and again.  Of course, I would rather stay at Cypress Harbour than any other resort around.  Haven't tried the Hilton on International Drive yet.


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## JLB (Dec 9, 2007)

Having said it before, it seems timely to say it again, the final straw with us, as CFI owners, was several years ago now.  Through a minor mix-up, we were there through both II and RCI.  I opted for RCI at checkin because it was a very inexpensive Bonus Vacation.

Even as owners, that dumped us in the RCI bin.  We got a total crapped-out unit in one of the oldest buildings-B-and total rudeness (arrogance) from everyone who somehow knew what label we had.


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## AwayWeGo (Dec 9, 2007)

*Sheesh.*




JLB said:


> Through a minor mix-up, we were there through both II and RCI.  I opted for RCI at checkin because it was a very inexpensive Bonus Vacation.
> 
> Even as owners, that dumped us in the RCI bin.  We got a total crapped-out unit in one of the oldest buildings-B-and total rudeness (arrogance) from everyone who somehow knew what label we had.


If I were WestGate _Grand Pro_, I would instruct the front desk crew to treat all owners as owners -- _mox nix_ if they happened to check in as exchange guests on any particular visit. 

Not only that, I would tell'm to treat renters & RCI/I-I exchange guests with utmost courtesy as well, with the idea in mind that guests experiencing quality red-carpet treatment would be more apt to drink the full-freight koolaid than folks treated in a brusque, high-handed manner. 

How do they expect to make friends & loosen checkbooks by treating owners & exchange as 2nd class citz.? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## sfwilshire (Dec 9, 2007)

We stayed in one of the loft units that sleeps 10. The four of us sort of rambled around in it. 10 will be cozy, but they are probably use to that. As I recall, we had a full size washer and dryer, which was a nice change from the usual tiny ones.

We lucked into a very pleasant saleswoman and had a good experience. Their mileage may vary.

I didn't find the traffic to be a problem at all unless you left one of the Disney parks at closing when everybody else did. I think that would be true of any resort in the area.

We participated in none of the activities since pretty much all had charges. When we did our tour, they gave us a free activities pass. Unfortunately we were leaving the next morning.

Sheila


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## timeos2 (Dec 9, 2007)

*They will pounce given the slightest chance*



AwayWeGo said:


> I
> How do they expect to make friends & loosen checkbooks by treating owners & exchange as 2nd class citz.?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



Why act human when the weasel qualities of irritating pressure, half-truths,  intimidation, more pressure, misrepresentations, escalating pressure and then the big pressure push works so well?  

These are sub-humans and you must never show them any weakness.


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## JLB (Dec 9, 2007)

Prezactly.  

What has always worked is total arrogance, the you-are-not-worthy-if-you-are-not-one-of-us atttitude, then replaced by the you-are-a-fool-if-you-don't-want-more-weeks attitude.  

It is about intimidation and working on fear of loss.  Gee, those folks over on the other side of the VIP barrier sure look like they are better off, with their cooked-to-order breakfast and all.  

The payments continue long after the minor false warm feeling of being better than the others wears off.


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## Polly Metallic (Dec 10, 2007)

For more recent reviews go to any of the travel websites like Tripadvisor.com, Expedia, Travelocity, Igougo etc. Reviews there are mixed, to0. It seems most of the complaints stem from the fact that a lot of people come on discounted mini-vacations and don't like having to take a timeshare tour. OR, they rent rooms expecting the resort to be a hotel, then are mad when there is no daily maid service. 

Most of the units have been refurbished and all the buildings have recently been repainted on the exterior according to all the info I have read. I have stayed at about 30 resorts since I began timesharing and these are in the mid to upper end of the quality level. I don't think most people would complain. If they do, I have no idea what they are used to as most any Orlando resorts are nicer than resorts elsewhere due to the fierce need to compete for buyers. 

Activities include bumper boats, paddle boats, mini-golf, volley ball, tennis, crafts, water aerobics etc. etc. They have one of the best welcome parties I have ever been to. It ties only with the resort in Cabo we just went to. 

As you can see, unlike many others here, I like this resort. I haven't stayed there lately. We'll be going this coming November. We usually check it out to see how it is being maintained when we go to Orlando for shorter business trips. The last time we stayed there we traded for a different week and unit size. I asked for a unit overlooking one of the little lake/ponds and the woman gave us exactly what I asked for. The buildings around the original big lake are the oldest and apparently didn't have in-room whirlpool tubs, so she suggested the other lake would be better. 

I think I have a fairly well-balanced view. I'm not so in love with it that I'm blind to its flaws, but some people here hate the resort ownership so much that it seems to blind them to its good points. The Westgate bashing here got so annoying that I disappeared from TUG for a couple years. 

I have stayed at a lot of very nice resorts, but many of them don't have much if any activities, don't have nearly the amount of facilities such as tennis, volley ball, mini-golf, a boating lake for paddle boats etc. I think the Villas have quite a lot to offer.


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## JLB (Dec 10, 2007)

Polly Metallic 

Love your handle.  Sounds like a new process Callaway Golf came up with.   
- - - - - - -
You are so right!

CFI is the largest provider of discounted Orlando stuff.  When you google something like _discount Orlando _or _Disney_, just about every link will lead to Wastegate.  See how many of them are offering 2 Disney for $25.

That's them.  3 Days/2 Nights, 4 Days/3 Nights, plus 2 Disney tickets for $25.  Call any of the toll-free numbers and find out your only obligation, a 90-minute sales presentation. (From arrival to departure, more like 4 hours.)

More than 50,000 a year take them up on that.
- - - - - -
As far as the bashing goes, from what I've seen it appears to be coming from informed sources, owners or former owners, and folks also quite familiar with the rest of the timeshare industry.  It is very consistent, the bashers bashing the same points, mostly sales methods.

For me it is the _we-are-better-then-you_ attitude that permeates from top to bottom.  It just really rubs me the wrong way.  It is disrespectful and it compounds the situation when a person becomes a billionaire through disrespect (if that is the case). When I point out specifics, they are just manifestations of that attitude, that disrespect.

We bought vacation time, from CFI, to go on vacation, to be treated well, pampered, not to have someone copping a disrespectful attitude with us for a week.

You have to remember that a forum like this is a real-time, now-and-only-now, environment.  It does not matter what was said before.  Each thread is it's own little world, unrelated to previous threads, because those involved, those seeking information, may not have seen the previous one.

So, because of the nature of the beast, stuff gets repeated.  It always has been and it always will be.

I am surprised that in this particular case, those who provide the warnings have continued to do so for so long.  Normally they get tired of saying the same thing over and over.  Sorta a tribute to how pervasive the problem is.


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## teachingmyown (Dec 10, 2007)

*Thanks, everyone!*

Your posts are all appreciated.  My friends are super excited; this is the first trip to Disney for the kids and they can't wait.   They are accustomed to squeezing the whole family of 10 into one or two hotel rooms so even a small condo will be a welcomed change of pace.  

I'm not worried about them dealing with the sales tactics.  They have extremely thick skins when it comes to overly "persuasive" people.  As a featured family on "Wife Swap" a while back they gained more than ample experience dealing with the low-down and dirty, deceptive and manipulative tactics of people with an attitude and an agenda and after that experience even the lowest of the lowest sleaze tactics won't intimidate them!

So, those concerns aside, should they bother calling in advance to request a specific building or area or just wait until check-in to see what they get?


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## JLB (Dec 10, 2007)

Wow! deja vu.  Me and mine 20 years ago!   

Beats me on the latter.  Check-in at these vacation mills is a real treat!!!  None of them have the ability to be _accomodating_ at actual check-in time.  If you/they do wait until then, to see what they get, they will get what they got.  

Hey, is that horse dead yet?  Let me beat on it some more!  

It is a shame that being tough-skinned should be a requirement for going on vacation.  


teachingmyown said:


> Your posts are all appreciated.  My friends are super excited; this is the first trip to Disney for the kids and they can't wait.   They are accustomed to squeezing the whole family of 10 into one or two hotel rooms so even a small condo will be a welcomed change of pace.
> 
> So, those concerns aside, should they bother calling in advance to request a specific building or area or just wait until check-in to see what they get?


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## GregoryR (Jan 31, 2008)

JLB said:


> Wow! deja vu.  Me and mine 20 years ago!
> 
> Beats me on the latter.  Check-in at these vacation mills is a real treat!!!  None of them have the ability to be _accomodating_ at actual check-in time.  If you/they do wait until then, to see what they get, they will get what they got.
> 
> ...



Of the roughly 10 times that I have checked in at Westgate 
Town Center, I only had to wait more than 10 minutes once.  The staff are always plesant and courteous to me and always try to accommodate my requests if within reason.  I even get to check in early often and they provide me with a helper and a golf cart to check in if I have stored my luggage there earlier.  I have nothing but good things to say about most Westgate staff.  I agree that some of the salespeople can be overly agressive and rude, but I have also found that to be common among all timeshare development companies.

Greg


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## timeos2 (Jan 31, 2008)

*Wastegate. The cesspool of timeshares sales and operations*



GregoryR said:


> Of the roughly 10 times that I have checked in at Westgate
> Town Center, I only had to wait more than 10 minutes once.  The staff are always plesant and courteous to me and always try to accommodate my requests if within reason.  I even get to check in early often and they provide me with a helper and a golf cart to check in if I have stored my luggage there earlier.  I have nothing but good things to say about most Westgate staff.  I agree that some of the salespeople can be overly agressive and rude, but I have also found that to be common among all timeshare development companies.
> 
> Greg



In over 14 years of ownership at Wastegate EVERY time we have checked in during "normal hours" (we've learned not to show up until after 11PM when the weasels crawl off to hibernate) it has been worse than the last. Herded into the upstairs waiting room to be plied for a sales pitch - then ushered downstairs to actually get checked in and then the dreaded golf cart to the unit during which even more sales pitch occurs. It is not a one time thing. It is not an accident. It is by design and reflects the sales only attitude that permeates this organization like BO.  There certainly are some nice and helpful employees (thank heavens!) but they exist despite the corporate attitude not because of it.  

Don't forget to cross out your "contribution" to the Seigull Foundation (is that to pay for his cars?).  They will tack it on your bill and hope you don't notice. 

This is a terrible organization and it's at best avoided and if need be tolerated  if you can get a deal or its available as a trade. Just avoid the weasels.  Unplug the phones. DO NOT attend any sales pitches, "maintenance meetings" or whatever they try to lure you in with.  Sign up but don't show up.  If your deal requires you to attend then be prepared to say NO and don't let them keep you more than the promised 90 minutes.  Don't eat the slop they offer (doesn't count toward your 90 minutes) don't schmooze with them (again, they are setting you up).  Let them make their pitch and then say NO.  Even if you love it you can buy it resale far cheaper and its the same resort either way.  

Again take a look at the number of owners and guests who say stay away vs the one or two posts that say "it's a great place". The ratio has to be about 50 to 1 or higher. That says it all.


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## JLB (Jan 31, 2008)

To every generality there is an exception.  Early on I somehow befriended the one nice person I met at Westgate in 14 years.

Fortunately she was Mr. Seagull's assistant.  I even remember her name, and conversation we had from years ago.  And she was very helpful.   

I had been trying to work my way through their tangled mess to get to a person who could help me.  I had tried every day for about two weeks and went through the same process every phone call, "So-and-so is not available.  I can help you."  They never could and, yes, it kept leading to sales pitches.

The Sunday night at 9:00 PM call from the pushy wench (I polited up what I really want to say) offering to take our two weeks back in trade on a Wastegate Lakes unit, with $25000 boot, was the last straw.  Well, one of straws that led up to the last straw.

First thing Monday morning I called my friend (actually she had been promoted to Mr. Seagull's assistant).  A half hour later the mortgage administrator called (I remember her name, too) and 15 minutes later we agreed to swap our two weeks for two summer weeks, for $20 and a Quit Claim deed from us.

Even with that good will, we eventually good not stand the nickel and diming, the holier-than-thou attitude, and the constant harassment to buy more.  We shudder and look the other way when we drive by on 192.


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## talkamotta (Feb 1, 2008)

EZ-ED said:


> We were at WVV last year in a two bedroom, two bath unit and it had a washer/dryer in the unit. We arrived around 7pm so we were able to skip the almost mandatory timeshare salesperson escort to the unit.
> 
> Once we got into our unit it was quite spacious but other than that it was an ok experience but nothing exceptional. We unplugged the phone and did not look into any of the resort activities other than the pools. As I recall we traded in with an accommodation certificate.



I agree with everything above.  Last time I was there the service was wonderful and very accomodating with extras like high chairs, extra pots, etc. The  sales staff made a slight appearance.  I told them I could try to make it on my second to last day if possible ( being an owner it was a maintenance meeting-but same thing) but if something came up I wouldnt be there.  My unit is a 2 bedroom loft and still has the pelican design of 10 years but it was clean and very comfortable.  The units are large and with the loft it feels very open.  There are bikes to ride on property, paddle boats, tennis courts and a miniature golf course.  Owners get to use them free, traders have to pay.  If I had to pay, I wouldnt have used them, just the pools.  I would rather spend the non Disney/Universal Park days on the beach.  Clearwater (Tampa) and Cocoa Beach are great beaches and very different from one another and easy to get to.  

 I was able to get the Marriott Cypress Garden  last fall as a trade for my kids when they went to Orlando (thought it would be nice for them to try another place)   They all liked Westgate better.   

Dont worry your friends will have fun.


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## JLB (Feb 1, 2008)

This is a good post.

If someone posts the things they don't like about a resort or company, then post the things you do like.

Then everyone has a heads-up and the conversation stays on topic.
- - - - - - 
But . . .

It's to be expected that an owner speaks highly of their own resort.  

However, when longtime owners have numerous complaints, and try to warn others, that should set off an alarm.

Then, when you go to more independent sites like Tripadvisor, where the pro-timeshare/owner-bias element is lessened, and you see that it's Popularity Index is in the bottom half in it's area:

TripAdvisor Popularity Index:
 # 22 of 34 Specialty lodging in Kissimmee 

it's ranking is only a three out of five, and many of the reviews are scathing, echoing exactly the same things that have been said here, then even the most loyal owners, at least secretly, to themselves, should feel that something must be going on, perhaps something they have missed.

Timeshare accomodations are different than tradional accomodations, with less personal service and hospitality, more the guest being on their own.  You have to make your own beds, clean your own units, take out your own trash, wash and dry your own towels if you want fresh ones.  When someone accustomed to hospitality finds themself in a check-in line with 50 or 100 other people, they don't like it.  Even understanding that, when the public views timeshare resorts as less accomodating than traditional resorts, that is not good for timesharing.

If totally unrelated people independently said the same things about my resort as are being said about this resort, I would not take it personally.  I would want to know why, and if I could do something about it.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...stgate_Vacation_Villas-Kissimmee_Florida.html






talkamotta said:


> I agree with everything above.  Last time I was there the service was wonderful and very accomodating with extras like high chairs, extra pots, etc. The  sales staff made a slight appearance.  I told them I could try to make it on my second to last day if possible ( being an owner it was a maintenance meeting-but same thing) but if something came up I wouldnt be there.  My unit is a 2 bedroom loft and still has the pelican design of 10 years but it was clean and very comfortable.  The units are large and with the loft it feels very open.  There are bikes to ride on property, paddle boats, tennis courts and a miniature golf course.  Owners get to use them free, traders have to pay.  If I had to pay, I wouldnt have used them, just the pools.  I would rather spend the non Disney/Universal Park days on the beach.  Clearwater (Tampa) and Cocoa Beach are great beaches and very different from one another and easy to get to.
> 
> I was able to get the Marriott Cypress Garden  last fall as a trade for my kids when they went to Orlando (thought it would be nice for them to try another place)   They all liked Westgate better.
> 
> Dont worry your friends will have fun.


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