# Incorrect 2007 MF bill



## GLL92 (Dec 23, 2006)

It appears that my 2007 MF bill is incorrect .  The bill I received for a biennual contract for IV Deluxe at WKORV has an item listed as the Vacation Ownership Assessment (VOA) that includes half of the $103.30 SVN membership fee.  (A biennual contract owner can verify this from the accompanying VOA table - the correct formula should be half of the total maintenance & reserve fee plus $20 for biennual use.)  In addition, the bill has another $103.30 SVN membership fee as a separate item.  Am I being double-charged for the SVN membership fee?  Because of this error, my bill increases from a more reasonable annual rate of 6.85% to 11.87%.  Did anyone notice the same problem?  I went back to my 2005 and 2006 bills, the VOA amount did not include the SVN membership fee in its calculation.


----------



## Denise L (Dec 24, 2006)

You can call Portfolio Services and ask them about the bill. If there is a mistake, I'm sure that they will fix it.

Do you own one EOY at WKORV-N and one EY at WKORV? Are the contracts/deeds in exactly the same names?  When you log into mystarcentral, do all of your ownerships show up together?


----------



## GLL92 (Dec 24, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> You can call Portfolio Services and ask them about the bill. If there is a mistake, I'm sure that they will fix it.
> 
> Do you own one EOY at WKORV-N and one EY at WKORV? Are the contracts/deeds in exactly the same names?  When you log into mystarcentral, do all of your ownerships show up together?



I have EOY contracts at both WKORV and WKORV-N.  (The WKORV-N EOY contract begins from 2009 so no MF is assessed for 2007.)  The contracts/deeds are in exactly the same names and they show up separately in mystarcentral.  I tried to reach Portfolio Services yesterday but it was too late in the late afternoon.  I'll try again after Xmas to find out why they did their calculation differently this year.  In the meantime, I just hope to remind TUG readers to double check their bills before paying them.


----------



## Denise L (Dec 24, 2006)

Just back from WKORV opened my WKORV EOY bill while reading your post:

Master Assn Assessment               43.21
Apartment Ownership Assessment 165.25
VOA                                         572.31
SVN                                         103.30
ARDA                                           5.00

TOTAL:                                     889.07

What does yours say?


----------



## GLL92 (Dec 24, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> Just back from WKORV opened my WKORV EOY bill while reading your post:
> 
> Master Assn Assessment               43.21
> Apartment Ownership Assessment 165.25
> ...



Mine is different from yours since I have a deluxe unit.  However, your VOA amount has the same error as mine.  You can find this by taking a look of the Approved Budget of Vacation Owners Association, specifically for the bold figures on the last three lines of the table.  In your case, the Total Maintenance & Reserve Fee for an EY contract is $1001.33, which translates into an EOY assessment of (1/2)*1001.33+20=520.67.  Instead, they used the Total Maintenance, Reserve Fee & Club Dues figure to get (1/2)*1104.63+20=572.31 as VOA on your bill.  Since you already have the SVN ($103.3) as a separate item on your bill, you are over-charged by half of the difference of 1104.63 and 1001.33, or (1/2)*103.3=51.65.  If you have your bills for prior years, you should be able to compare and see the problem.


----------



## jerseygirl (Dec 24, 2006)

Last year they sent completely incorrect bills for the PGA resort (switched the small one-BR with the large one-BR, or something like that).  Then, they sent letters apologizing for the error and advising that new bills would be forthcoming.  

The "bad" information never came off the mystarcentral website.  I sent emails challenging the information and basically received a response that said, "The info on the website is incorrect.  Just trust us that what you paid was correct."  (What we paid was more than what was reflected as the "amount due" on the website.)  

I could understand this type of error from an independent timeshare run by a volunteer Board (we all make mistakes from time to time), but these are unacceptable errors from paid employees.  Wouldn't you expect there to be some sort of checks and balances before the invoices are mailed and the financial information is posted to the mystarcentral website?  And, more importantly, once it was pointed out that the info on the website was incorrect, wouldn't you expect it to be corrected?  It never was.

I love their timeshares, but this type of stuff definitely decreases my confidence in their ability to spend our money wisely.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Dec 24, 2006)

Heck, I would be happy to receive my paper bill.  Knowing how messed up the SVO/SVN computer systems are - they probably sent it to the previous owner.


----------



## TheUnitrep (Dec 24, 2006)

GLL92 said:
			
		

> Instead, they used the Total Maintenance, Reserve Fee & Club Dues figure to get (1/2)*1104.63+20=572.31 as VOA on your bill.  Since you already have the SVN ($103.3) as a separate item on your bill, you are over-charged...51.65.



Excellent catch!

Have you contacted Starwood??  I'll be interested to hear what they say.

Thanks for letting us know!!

Merry Christmas,

Jerry


----------



## duke (Dec 26, 2006)

Also, for multiple ownership weeks....if you do not have all your weeks "linked" on "mystarcentral" you can get charged SVO fees for each week.  I Found out, that to be linked, each ownership week must have same SS number.  In my case, one of our weeks had my SS and another had my wife's SS number listed first so for some reason they were both charged SVO membership fees.

Took me awhile to figure this out because when I called they told me that they were still linked.  But, I kept complaining that they all did not show up on "mystarcentral".  Finally, a very helpful SVO customer rep saw it and is in the process of correcting the SS linking.

Next I will have to get the SVO fees corrected.

Duke


----------



## GLL92 (Dec 26, 2006)

*Incorrect WKORV MF assessment - confirmed*

Finally got back and called Starwood this morning.  They've already been aware of the problem and apologize for the mistake.  Each biennial contract was over-billed by $51.65, exactly half of the SVN membership fee.  They will update mystarcentral web page and issue credit for refund, however, no corrected paper bill will be re-issued.  According to the representative, the problem does not affect other SVN resort. 

Again, I just want to remind TUG readers to double check their bills for this problem before paying them, no matter the contracts are annual or biennial, WKORV or other SVN resorts.


----------



## TheUnitrep (Dec 26, 2006)

GLL92 said:


> Finally got back and called Starwood this morning.  They've already been aware of the problem and apologize for the mistake.  Each biennial contract was over-billed by $51.65, exactly half of the SVN membership fee.  They will update mystarcentral web page and issue credit for refund...



Thank you very much for the update.  

Starwood's mistake makes the MF increase a little less painful!

Jerry


----------



## Stefa (Dec 26, 2006)

Can someone tell me what are the SVN dues for a biennial ownership?   Is it half of the annual SVN membership fee or do we have to pay the full amount each year?  From the discussion here it sounds like it is only half, but thought I'd make sure.   Thanks


----------



## Denise L (Dec 26, 2006)

GLL92 said:


> Finally got back and called Starwood this morning.  They've already been aware of the problem and apologize for the mistake.  Each biennial contract was over-billed by $51.65, exactly half of the SVN membership fee.  They will update mystarcentral web page and issue credit for refund, however, no corrected paper bill will be re-issued.  According to the representative, the problem does not affect other SVN resorts.



Thanks for calling, I was going to do it today but you saved me the trouble!

Since I own two EOYs at WKORV, both bills are incorrect.  It looks like they billed us the same VOA for both (even though the SVN fee is $31.30 for the second one, so in theory the mistake should have been 1/2 of that fee).

I'll check the website first, and then call if it is still incorrect.

Thanks again!


----------



## Denise L (Dec 26, 2006)

Stefa said:


> Can someone tell me what are the SVN dues for a biennial ownership?   Is it half of the annual SVN membership fee or do we have to pay the full amount each year?  From the discussion here it sounds like it is only half, but thought I'd make sure.   Thanks



SVN fees are due each year with your MF bill. In our case, we own two biennials, so we pay $103.30 each year for the first, and $31.30 each year for the second.

If you owned an EY, you'd pay $103.30 each year for SVN for that interval.

By owning 2 EOYs, I am paying $31.30 more per year, plus some administrative fee of $20 each (I think).  I know that when we purchased, we were told that there would be only one SVN fee, but since we have two deeds, it is billed this way.


----------



## Denise L (Dec 26, 2006)

deniselew said:
			
		

> I'll check the website first, and then call if it is still incorrect.



The website was still incorrect, so I called and verified the correct amounts, $832.42 for my first and $760.43 for the second, so $1592.85 total.

Can someone with a WKORV 2 bedroom lockoff EY interval post their total? Just curious how much I am overpaying (at least $31.30 + $20 + $20) by having two deeds?!?!

Updated: Looks like I finally have my numbers correct. I am paying an additional $71.30 per year in fees for the privilege of owning two EOYs versus one EY. Is it worth it?!


----------



## glenn1000 (Dec 26, 2006)

deniselew said:


> Can someone with a WKORV 2 bedroom lockoff EY interval post their total? Just curious how much I am overpaying (at least $62.60 + $20 + $20) by having two deeds?!?!



We own a 2-bedroom annual lockoff island view and a 1-bedroom annual ocean view. Seems funny that the MF are almost the same for both units. Here's the breakdown:

2-bedroom:
Master Association Assessment: $86.42
Apartment Ownership Assessment: $330.50
Vacation Ownership Assessment: $1,104.63
SVN membership fee (additional): $31.30

Total: $1,552.85

1-bedroom:
Master Association Assessment: $72.90
Apartment Ownership Assessment: $278.87
Vacation Ownership Assessment: $948.14
SVN membership fee: $103.30

Total: $1,403.21


----------



## DavidnRobin (Dec 26, 2006)

I was told by SVO that for WKORV (I called to ask where my paper bill was...) everyone was charged twice for their SVN Club dues so the amount due will be corrected by $103.30 (annual).

So - if my calculation is correct - this is an increase of ~7.8% over 2006 (w/o SVN fee) vs. the previous increase of ~13.5%.  That is a bit easier to take.

The MFs are based on the unit size and not view type or season.

Follow-up: 
Found the WKORV billing - turns out that on MyStarCentral that we are being charged our SVN fee twice since it is contained in the Vacation Owners Association breakdown already - And MyStarCentral charges for it again.

Also realized that for owners in Hawaii - we are charged a tax on the SVN fee and that is why the fee is $103.30 (instead of $99) -and why it is posted differently.  I wonder if I can switch fees between and save the $4.30?


----------



## BradC (Dec 31, 2006)

blujahz said:


> ... everyone was charged twice for their SVN Club dues....


I closed on a resale Vistana Villages 2-bedroom lockout unit earlier this year (my second SVO unit) and just got my first maintenance fee bill.  I was surprised to notice that I was NOT charged for the SVN Membership Fee for my new Vistana Villages unit.  I was charged $99 for my Kierland unit.

My new VV is an even-year EOY, but I expected to be charged the $30 SVN fee yearly.

Now I'm wondering if they messed up my VV bill as well.  Maybe that's where the WKORV double-billing came from -- you're paying the fees that got left off of the VV statements!


----------



## Henry M. (Jan 2, 2007)

I just called to pay my maintenance fees today and as stated previously, they took off $103.30 off the price quoted on my paper bill and on mystarcentral. 

I do not get charged the club fees because I am 5 Star Elite (may already be waived for 4 Stars too, I can't remember), so there was no separate line item for that. However, the cost had been included in the original vacation ownership assessment and the lady that answered the phone took it off before charging my credit card.

The bottom line for a 2BR Oceanview LO is $1,418.25. 

To that you need to add $103.30 for the SVN membership fee for the first unit you own and $31.30 for the second unit. These membership  fees are waived at higher elite levels.

Glenn1000: I had the same fees as you for the 2BR lock off. When I called they told me there was a mistake and the SVN fees were already included in the $1104.63. If you call them they should take out the $103.30 and $31.30 from your bills.


----------



## skim118 (Jan 11, 2007)

We received a letter yesterday from SVO about this :  "In an imperfect world we at Starwood do strive for perfection,.....blah blah....

Now they are refunding the $103.30 back to our account;  I guess we will ask them send us back the money.

Thanks to all you eagle-eyed TUG'ers for spotting the overcharge on 2007 WKORV annual fees.


----------



## rsweeney (Feb 10, 2007)

*2007 MF's WKORV*

Finally closing escrow for 2bd dlx. IV at WKORV I was told MF for 2007 was 2057.57 which I believe is a lot more than 2006. I am a skeptic so I called the management Co for WKORV they told me the same price exactly and that included the club dues. Good thing cause these high MF's Make me think Starwood is making us pay too much.... Is anyone elses MF's this high for WKORV as I thought it might be closer to 1500-1600 when I bought??


----------



## DeniseM (Feb 10, 2007)

catman said:


> Finally closing escrow for 2bd dlx. IV at WKORV I was told MF for 2007 was 2057.57



That's about $500 more that what others are paying for a 2 bdm....could they be charging that much more for a deluxe unit?   

2-bedroom:
Master Association Assessment: $86.42
Apartment Ownership Assessment: $330.50
Vacation Ownership Assessment: $1,104.63
SVN membership fee (additional): $31.30

Total: $1,552.85


----------



## Denise L (Feb 10, 2007)

Deluxe is more, I just don't know how much more. And if catman owns one interval, the SVN fee will be $103.30, so add $72 to DeniseM's total. The rest must be the difference between the standard 1450 square feet villas and the 1750 square foot villas.

The OP owns a EOY Deluxe unit, but I don't see the exact fees the OP was charged. I'm sure a Deluxe owner will chime in to compare fees.


----------



## nell (Feb 10, 2007)

DeniseM said:


> That's about $500 more that what others are paying for a 2 bdm....could they be charging that much more for a deluxe unit?
> 
> 2-bedroom:
> Master Association Assessment: $86.42
> ...



Yes, they definitely are!  We pay dearly for the extra lanai and a few sq ft.  My unit would be a little more than the OP because we own 2 EOY.  The MF for a 2Br Deluxe would be $2057.57.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Feb 10, 2007)

nell said:


> Yes, they definitely are!  We pay dearly for the extra lanai and a few sq ft.  My unit would be a little more than the OP because we own 2 EOY.  The MF for a 2Br Deluxe would be $2057.57.



The MFs for the Deluxe are: $1954.27 (w/o SVN) and $2057.57 (w/ SVN) - they are based on the difference in size. The %MFs to be paid are listed in the WKORV OM - and from these percentages - if you know the MF for one type, then you can calculate the MFs for the others.  They will be the same proportionally (w/o SVN fee) between the units types every year - and therefore if there is a % increase in one - the same relative % increase will apply to the others.


----------



## duke (Feb 10, 2007)

DavidnRobin said:


> The MFs for the Deluxe are: $1954.27 (w/o SVN) and $2057.57 (w/ SVN) - they are based on the difference in size. The %MFs to be paid are listed in the WKORV OM - and from these percentages - if you know the MF for one type, then you can calculate the MFs for the others.  They will be the same proportionally (w/o SVN fee) between the units types every year - and therefore if there is a % increase in one - the same relative % increase will apply to the others.



I thought Princeville was high but seems they are same as WKORV Deluxe.  And Princeville fees include payment to the Princeville Hotel for use.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Feb 10, 2007)

duke said:


> I thought Princeville was high but seems they are same as WKORV Deluxe.  And Princeville fees include payment to the Princeville Hotel for use.



The MFs are indeed about the same - the same ~MF as WKORV-N - the Deluxe LO at WKORV are ~1750sqft - includes wasted space.  The Deluxe 1Bd have an ~25 x 7.5 ft lanai - and a ~100sq ft lanai for the studio.  Both have king-size beds - while WPORV has a king and queen.


----------



## DeniseM (Feb 10, 2007)

duke said:


> I thought Princeville was high but seems they are same as WKORV Deluxe.  And Princeville fees include payment to the Princeville Hotel for use.



What privileges do owners received at the Princeville Hotel?


----------

