# Newbie .... Just bought n sdo



## Dodger4life (Jul 10, 2012)

We just bought this ts on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/280908951953?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 was looking for people's opionion . Is this a good unit for trading?


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2012)

No it's not a good trader - it is an off-season week:  Week of the Year: 22-27, 36-49

For a trader you want one of the following only:
Platinum - weeks 1-21 & 50-52
Gold Plus - weeks 1-52

Paypal TS auctions are not binding, you should notify the seller that you would like to rescind your bid, and offer to cover their listing fees.

Please feel free to vet your next purchase here, before you bid.


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## Beefnot (Jul 10, 2012)

I believe the seller's listing fees are refunded if the buyer reneges and the seller files a non-payment strike.


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## Downhill1 (Jul 10, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> For a trader you want one of the following only:
> Platinum - weeks 1-21 & 50-52
> Gold Plus - weeks 1-52



Are there any Tuggers out there who own both an SDO True Platinum week as well as a Golf Plus 1-52 week that could comment on II trading power between these two categories of weeks at SDO?

Thanks in advance.

Downhill1


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2012)

Downhill1 said:


> Are there any Tuggers out there who own both an SDO True Platinum week as well as a Golf Plus 1-52 week that could comment on II trading power between these two categories of weeks at SDO?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Downhill1



Trade tests have shown that in some cases the Platinum weeks have slightly better trading power in difficult trades, like Harborside Atlantis.

However, Plat weeks are much more difficult to find, and much more expensive, so for a trader, the Gold Plus weeks are considered to be almost as good and much easier to acquire.


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## scootr5 (Jul 10, 2012)

Downhill1 said:


> Are there any Tuggers out there who own both an SDO True Platinum week as well as a Golf Plus 1-52 week that could comment on II trading power between these two categories of weeks at SDO?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Downhill1



From what I've read, the True plats _might _have a _little _more power but are going to cost you a lot more since people buy them primarily to requalify them.

So far my gold plus small 1 bedroom has exchanged for a Marriott Manor Club 2 bedroom this past June and a Sheraton Lakeside Terrace 2 bedroom for next June.


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## Dodger4life (Jul 10, 2012)

Well we pretty much pd for the ts already , which we don't mind in some degree... Bcuz we can go durning those dates... Would a eoy floating 1-52 b good or consider gold season ? I don't think I would like to screw up my eBay acct by rescinding even if I can? Thanks


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## DeniseM (Jul 10, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> Well we pretty much pd for the ts already , which we don't mind in some degree... Bcuz we can go durning those dates... Would a eoy floating 1-52 b good or consider gold season ? I don't think I would like to screw up my eBay acct by rescinding even if I can? Thanks



You bought gold season - A 1-52 floating week is Gold Plus.

eBay auctions for timeshares are not binding.  If the deed hasn't been transferred to your name yet, I would do whatever it takes to get out of the deal - including forfeiting the money you've paid.   

This week literally has no resale value, and to be quite honest with you, it should have been completely free.  You will find that if/when you want to get rid of it, it will be virtually impossible - which means you will be stuck with the yearly maintenance fee whether you want it or not.


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## RX8 (Jul 10, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> Well we pretty much pd for the ts already , which we don't mind in some degree... Bcuz we can go durning those dates... Would a eoy floating 1-52 b good or consider gold season ? I don't think I would like to screw up my eBay acct by rescinding even if I can? Thanks



You shouldn't have to settle for a timeshare that isn't exactly what you want.  You should at LEAST inquire about backing out while you can.  Unlike Kim  Kardashian, this "marriage" with your timeshare will last more than 72 days (more like forever if you cant give it away) and will cost you a heck of a lot more with MF.  Get the "annulment" NOW if you can.


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## gnorth16 (Jul 10, 2012)

When I owned a 1BR Platinum SDO, the instant trades were the same as the gold plus every time I looked.  Ongoing searches are apparently better with the platinum.  I have since sold it and bought a second gold plus 2BR instead.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 10, 2012)

My SDO says One Season.  I am pretty sure it was 1-52.  Paid quite a bit more than I planned for it.  It's an EOY L/O, but we have owned it for about four years.  Prices were higher back then.  I cannot believe how cheap timeshares are right now.  It's a huge temptation for me.  I am not doing well at saying no, either.


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## gtm2011 (Jul 10, 2012)

If you are just buying a one bedroom, I would recommend a Platinum (50-52 and 1-21) week over a Gold Plus (1-52) week.  There is little or no premium on the one bedroom's, but there is a big premium on the two bedroom lock offs.  Just something to consider.


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## Dodger4life (Jul 11, 2012)

Ok I will call the seller 2 morrow n try to cancel.... Denise what exactly do u mean ts aren't binding on eBay? We wud prefer a two 2 bdrm since we have a large family.... 5 or more n family if all the kids come. I've been reading tug for a few weeks trying to absorb all this info on this site. Looking for a ts close to our location so we can travel by car n trade to longer distances every 2-4 yrs out. Maby Tahoe or palm springs or Arizona area.... Az is 8 hr drive for us. 

Thanks again for the responsives


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## Dodger4life (Jul 11, 2012)

By the way the money for the auction came out of my bank acct on 7/9 so does that mean I have 5 days to rescind ? Has anyone rescinded on a eBay auction 
B4? Thanks


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## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2012)

"Not binding," means that under the eBay rules, a winning bid on a timeshare auction is not a final purchase.  It is just an offer to enter negotiations to buy a timeshare.

Don't call the seller - that's just asking for an argument.   Instead, send them a polite but firm email.  Tell them that you are exercising your option to back out of the purchase.  Don't ask if you can.  

Scottsdale is a long drive from Central California.  I look at Tahoe instead - it's only 3-4 hours for you.

All of the Starwood timeshares are going to be long drives, or flights for you, so I'm not sure a Starwood trader will meet your needs for a home resort.

You don't have the "right to rescind," with an ebay purchase - that's the rule when buying from a developer.  The rule that lets you back out of the purchase is an eBay rule, but most people exercise it before they make any payments.

How much money did you pay?


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## Dodger4life (Jul 11, 2012)

I pd a dollar for the ts n 460 for closing n transfer fees .... I will send the email to the seller n closing company they having me use ...they have already taken my money out of my acct so I don't know if they will refund me or not? Are there any listing on this site for ts for sale that include financing.... I was just looking at the marketplace a min ago...


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## Dodger4life (Jul 11, 2012)

Where's a good resort in Tahoe ? Of friend of mine owns at the ridge! But I read some comments some people made bout that resort... What's a good trade resort since we wouldn't mind traveling some yrs 


Thanks


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## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> I pd a dollar for the ts n 460 for closing n transfer fees .... I will send the email to the seller n closing company they having me use ...they have already taken my money out of my acct so I don't know if they will refund me or not? Are there any listing on this site for ts for sale that include financing.... I was just looking at the marketplace a min ago...



You may lose the money - but that would be better then acquiring an  off-season timeshare that will be a poor trader, too far from home, and will be impossible to get rid of.

To be quite honest with you, if you can't buy a timeshare without financing, you should not buy one.  Most timeshares have no resale value, so it's not the kind of thing you should finance.  It doesn't make financial sense to finance something that has little or no resale value.

That being said, if you are patient, you can probably find a nice timeshare for $1, with no closing costs, but I strongly recommend that you run it by us before you bid.

The best advice I can give you is to do your homework on TUG for 6 mos. before you buy.  I guarantee that what you will buy in 6 mos. will be different than what you buy today.

A good place for you to LOOK, but not make any rash decisions, is the TUG Bargain Deals Forum, where people give timeshares away - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=55

Do some research there - but don't jump into another deal yet.


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## SDKath (Jul 11, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> I pd a dollar for the ts n 460 for closing n transfer fees .... I will send the email to the seller n closing company they having me use ...they have already taken my money out of my acct so I don't know if they will refund me or not? Are there any listing on this site for ts for sale that include financing.... I was just looking at the marketplace a min ago...



Alternatively, you can ask them to transfer the $1 and closing fees to a 1-52 SDO or a 1-21 1br if they have it.  I bet they will be able to find you one very easily!  They are all over the place, especially the 1-52 floats!

Katherine


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## LisaH (Jul 11, 2012)

Are we absolutely sure that there is a big difference in trading powers between Gold and Gold Plus? With RCI, all the weeks trade the same...Anyone who has a Gold week on II that we can compare?


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## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2012)

LisaH said:


> Are we absolutely sure that there is a big difference in trading powers between Gold and Gold Plus? With RCI, all the weeks trade the same...Anyone who has a Gold week on II that we can compare?



Unless something has changed, on RCI, the higher the season, the higher the TPU.  _Within_ a season, the weeks all trade the same - but not when comparing seasons.


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## RX8 (Jul 11, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> The best advice I can give you is to do your homework on TUG for 6 mos. before you buy.  I guarantee that what you will buy in 6 mos. will be different than what you buy today.



This is excellent advice.  I don't own a timeshare yet but have been studying/researching for a YEAR.  I've come close but obtained a refund after a seller made an error in the description of the TS.

Take your time and dig deep into this site and other sites.  For your next vacation, RENT a timeshare.  This allows you to try out locations AND will allow you to see if you don't mind paying $700, $800, $1000 or more for your vacation because even though you may one day OWN a vacation, these amounts are still going to be due each and every year as maintenance fees/exchange fees/special assessments.


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## LisaH (Jul 11, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Unless something has changed, on RCI, the higher the season, the higher the TPU.  _Within_ a season, the weeks all trade the same - but not when comparing seasons.



I just checked on RCI to see SDO's TPUs. EVERY WEEK (1, 10, 33, 45, 52) has the same TPUs.


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## Dodger4life (Jul 11, 2012)

Hey Denise here is the response I got... 



Andy,
*
Thank you for your email.* I regret to inform you that the deed for this ownership has already been recorded into your name in Maricopa County recorders office.* We can certainly process a refund minus the costs incurred thus far, but we would first need you to sign the title back to the seller.* Attached is a refund deed which, once sigfned and returned to our office, we will immediatly record out of your name.* Once the documents are received from you we will issue a refund of $461 minus the following costs incurred:
*
eBay Listing Fee:* $72.50
Recording Cost: $35
*
Total Refund:* $353.50
*
Once you have signed the attached deed, please feel free to return the deed to our office via email or fax to 866-594-8851.* If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
*
Thank you and best regards,
*
Customer Service Team
The Timeshare Company, LLC
-----Original Message----- 
From: "Andrew Burlingame" <begames8@yahoo.com> 
To: customerservice@thetimesharecompany.com 
Date: 07/11/12 10:38 
Subject: Online Inquiry 

We regretfully would like decline the purchase of the timeshare we purchased on eBay . Although we have paid for the closing and transfer fees, we would like to request a refund minus the cost for you to relist the auction . The reason for the decline is the available dates no longer work for
Us. If you have a floating week 1-52 in your inventory that would b a better timeshare for us . 

Thank you Andy Burlingame
I was wondering if I sign the deed back to the seller does that get me off the hook?


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## grgs (Jul 11, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> I was wondering if I sign the deed back to the seller does that get me off the hook?



It should.  You can always double-check on the county's website to make sure the deed does get out of your name:

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/

Note: it may take a couple of weeks to be able to search by name.

Best wishes,

Glorian


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## scootr5 (Jul 11, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> *
> Total Refund:* $353.50
> *



I would absolutely take that refund and look for a gold plus. You'll have a lot more flexibility should the trading game someday change, or you want to go when it's not blistering hot.

Did you ask them if they have a 1-52 in their inventory?


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## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2012)

LisaH said:


> I just checked on RCI to see SDO's TPUs. EVERY WEEK (1, 10, 33, 45, 52) has the same TPUs.



It's not accurate - when people have actually deposited their SDO weeks, there was a difference between seasons.  Since Starwood owners can no longer deposit a specific week, you can't use the calculator to find the TPU.


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## DeniseM (Jul 11, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> Total Refund:* $353.50



You dodged a bullet - I would absolutely accept their offer.

When did you win this auction?

If you still want to own at SDO (Plat or Gold Plus only) you may want to ask one more time if they have another week you can buy.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jul 11, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> You bought gold season - A 1-52 floating week is Gold Plus.
> 
> eBay auctions for timeshares are not binding.  If the deed hasn't been transferred to your name yet, I would do whatever it takes to get out of the deal - including forfeiting the money you've paid.
> 
> This week literally has no resale value, and to be quite honest with you, it should have been completely free.  You will find that if/when you want to get rid of it, it will be virtually impossible - which means you will be stuck with the yearly maintenance fee whether you want it or not.



I hate to admit this, but when I first decided to purchase weeks, I bought 3 different contracts that i paid for and did not accept the deeds ---. And I am glad that I didn't accept the deeds. I have a super positive ebay score and it was the worth the money I paid to not mess up my score. And it was really worth it to not get the deeds to the property. 

elaine


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## scootr5 (Jul 11, 2012)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I hate to admit this, but when I first decided to purchase weeks, I bought 3 different contracts that i paid for and did not accept the deeds ---. And I am glad that I didn't accept the deeds. I have a super positive ebay score and it was the worth the money I paid to not mess up my score. And it was really worth it to not get the deeds to the property.
> 
> elaine



Hey, I think most people on the board have a mistake of some sort under their belt!


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## nokaoi9 (Jul 11, 2012)

Can someone explain the various weeks at SDO?

I purchased a week at SDO in late 2011 and didn't do much research prior to purchasing.  When I log into II, it list my week as Gold Plus/Red. 

Any information is appreciated.


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## Dodger4life (Jul 12, 2012)

Did you ask them if they have a 1-52 in their inventory?


Yes I did ask them but they really didn't reply!!! I do have another question that's interesting? 

 How are ts deeded in my name, n recorded at say xxxxxx but they require a NOTARIZATION SIG.....? My wife does notarizing n she says the people need to be present when she signs off on the paper, to make sure people say who they are? Is this standard for ts ? Or is it diff for ts? 


We actually bought a ts in tenn frm a developer n las Vegas a few months ago n the notarized our sig.... But when we got home n read thru some paperwork n read thru this website we ended up rescinding ???? Thank goodness 

Thanks again ...


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

nokaoi9 said:


> Can someone explain the various weeks at SDO?
> 
> I purchased a week at SDO in late 2011 and didn't do much research prior to purchasing.  When I log into II, it list my week as Gold Plus/Red.
> 
> Any information is appreciated.



Gold Plus/Red = 1-52 floating week

This are the seasons in order:
Platinum
Gold Plus
Gold 
Silver


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## Dodger4life (Jul 12, 2012)

glypnirsgirl said:


> I hate to admit this, but when I first decided to purchase weeks, I bought 3 different contracts that i paid for and did not accept the deeds ---. And I am glad that I didn't accept the deeds. I have a super positive ebay score and it was the worth the money I paid to not mess up my score. And it was really worth it to not get the deeds to the property.
> 
> elaine



I too have a excellent score on eBay n was wondering what u meant by u paid to keep ur score good?


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## Dodger4life (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Gold Plus/Red = 1-52 floating week
> 
> This are the seasons in order:
> Platinum
> ...



Are the seasons the same if it's a fixed week?  

Is there a list of the best available dates to the worst dates for diff resorts on this site ? For instance what are platinum dates at sdo? 1-21?


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> Are the seasons the same if it's a fixed week?
> 
> Is there a list of the best available dates to the worst dates for diff resorts on this site ? For instance what are platinum dates at sdo? 1-21?



For the most part, it's common sense:  ski weeks at ski resorts, winter in the desert, March in MLB Spring Training areas, holiday weeks almost everywhere.

There are no fixed weeks at SDO.

To be a true Platinum week at Sheraton Desert Oasis the unit number must be in this range-

1064, 1072, 1081-1100, 2064, 2072, 2081- 2100, 3064-3072, and 3081-3100

AND

the deeded week must be in this range: 1-21, 50-52


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## jerseygirl (Jul 12, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> ?..
> How are ts deeded in my name, n recorded at say xxxxxx but they require a NOTARIZATION SIG.....? My wife does notarizing n she says the people need to be present when she signs off on the paper, to make sure people say who they are? Is this standard for ts ? Or is it diff for ts? ...



A notarized signature is only required by the grantor/seller .... But most professional dealers will require the buyer to sign a contract spelling out the terms.  Some eBay sellers just email a let of questions and use the response to complete the deed.


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## jarta (Jul 12, 2012)

Dodger4life said:


> How are ts deeded in my name, n recorded at say xxxxxx but they require a NOTARIZATION SIG.....? My wife does notarizing n she says the people need to be present when she signs off on the paper, to make sure people say who they are? Is this standard for ts ? Or is it diff for ts? ...
> 
> Thanks again ...



A deeded timeshare is an interest in real estate.  Deeds from sellers must be notarized under State law.  Some (many or most?) of the timeshare closing companies will notarize the signatures on a deed without the sellers being present.  Your wife is correct. A notary public is required to have the signers present and see proper identification before affixing the seal (now usually a stamp).  She is doing it the correct way.

Notarization is designed to have a licensed, bonded person certify the sellers are who they say they are in order to prevent fraud.  That's a reason that buying a timeshare where the seller's agent, the closing company, notarizes the seller's signature on the deed can be dangerous.  Usually, it all works out OK.  Sometimes, though, it doesn't.  And, you will never know there is a problem until both you and the sellers try to make a reservation the next year.  Salty


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## Dodger4life (Jul 12, 2012)

Thanks jarta .... That's what I thought ... On the deed they sent me it said we were getting 1/52 is that normal? 


If we r planning to travel to the palm springs, Arizona area, what is a good resort system? We live close to Fresno ca which is in middle of the state . 

We have a large family n wud need a 2 bdrm most likely .... Any help wud b thankful!!!


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Starwood has timeshares in both Palm Springs and Arizona, and SDO is considered to be the most cost effective II trader - so it would be a good trader for you - but you need to buy a Gold Plus week to have good trading power.  

However, you stated that you were looking for a home resort, and I would not consider Scottsdale to be within driving distance from Fresno.

A good option for you would be to buy a Tahoe timeshare as your home resort (every other year deed) and an SDO timeshare for a trader (every other year deed.)

Here are all the Starwood timeshares - http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/starwood_vacation_ownership_resorts.html

You would be able to trade into all of the Starwood timeshares (except for Harborside and Westin St. John) by trading SDO through Interval International, as long as you are flexible.

Note however that trading for the prime school holiday weeks is far more difficult (Christmas, New Years, Easter, etc.)  If you are flexible about when you travel - you will have a lot more options.

Be aware that exchanging is not like making a reservation - it requires some knowledge, skill, and persistence to be successful.  It's also not free - there are yearly II membership fees of about $100 and exchange fees of $120-$150 per exchange - on top of your maintenance fee.



> On the deed they sent me it said we were getting 1/52 is that normal?



That refers to the fact that you own one week out of 52 weeks in the year.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

Is there a specific time in which Starwood deposits weeks ? I just took over my SDO Plat, but thus far I have not seen anything with the Starwood priority that I can't see with my non-starwood TS. I have seen the difference with my Marriott on a daily basis and I assumed I would see that would Starwood as well ???


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Is there a specific time in which Starwood deposits weeks ? I just took over my SDO Plat, but thus far I have not seen anything with the Starwood priority that I can't see with my non-starwood TS. I have seen the difference with my Marriott on a daily basis and I assumed I would see that would Starwood as well ???



At any given time, there is little or no prime Starwood inventory just "sitting" in II.  The best  Starwood deposits are snagged behind the scenes with on-going searches, so very few deposits make it into the online inventory, and then the best ones get snatched up immediately.  

Your best bet is to put in an ongoing search - the best deposits never make it online.

Also - Starwood has far fewer resorts than Marriott, so you will never see the volume of deposits that you do with Marriott.

In addition to this, remember that except for true fixed weeks, Starwood has 100% control of what weeks are deposited, and they tend to deposit off-season weeks, so if a prime season week at a top resort gets deposited, an on-going search with get it - it won't see the light of day.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> At any given time, there is little or no prime Starwood inventory just "sitting" in II.  The best  Starwood deposits are snagged behind the scenes with on-going searches, so very few deposits make it into the online inventory, and then the best ones get snatched up immediately.
> 
> Your best bet is to put in an ongoing search - the best deposits never make it online.
> 
> Also - Starwood has far fewer resorts than Marriott, so you will never see the volume of deposits that you do with Marriott.



I do have an ongoing request in using my SDO, SR and Fairmont for, I know its difficult, Christmas and New Years in Maui. Last year we found one three weeks before and found a reasonable flight to get down there.

I was assuming that I would see at least some sign that there was a priority there, but nothing so far.


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I was assuming that I would see at least some sign that there was a priority there, but nothing so far.



It's not that you can't see any prime Starwood deposits with your SDO deposit, it's that they aren't there - the best deposits disappear immediately.

Did you get an exchange for the Westin Ka'anapali for Christmas/New Years????


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> It's not that you can't see any prime Starwood deposits with your SDO deposit, it's that they aren't there - the best deposits disappear immediately.
> 
> Did you get an exchange for the Westin Ka'anapali for Christmas/New Years????



I traded for MOC last year using my Fairmont TS, 1 br OF and it was beautiful as I was on the third floor, right above the owners lounge so I had the larger balcony. Would love to get that unit again. I have the Westin the first week of September in a 2 br OV.


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## VacationForever (Jul 12, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I traded for MOC last year using my Fairmont TS, 1 br OF and it was beautiful as I was on the third floor, right above the owners lounge so I had the larger balcony. Would love to get that unit again. I have the Westin the first week of September in a 2 br OV.



I may be confused.  If you are trading for Westin thru II how would you know that you actually have an OV unit in September?  II trades are at the bottom of the totem pole.  Unless you are renting...


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Yes, as sptung said - with Starwood, you don't get the unit on the confirmation - Starwood reserves the right to assign you to any unit that matches the description on your confirmation.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 12, 2012)

sptung said:


> I may be confused.  If you are trading for Westin thru II how would you know that you actually have an OV unit in September?  II trades are at the bottom of the totem pole.  Unless you are renting...



True - but Sept is beginning of low season and there are many more OVs than IVs (at least at WKORV).  Plus, IV owners get IV and not OV so that plays a role as well.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

sptung said:


> I may be confused.  If you are trading for Westin thru II how would you know that you actually have an OV unit in September?  II trades are at the bottom of the totem pole.  Unless you are renting...



I called the Westin after my trade went through to see what view and they had indicated it was OV. When I traded into a 1 br in May as I was getting on a plane that morning, I didn't check and when I arrived there, I was assigned one of the worst "island view" units - first floor facing the other building with trees in front of the balcony so the unit was dark. We did end up moving to another unit, again with trees but at least not in front of the the other building so you didn't get any light.


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I called the Westin after my trade went through to see what view and they had indicated it was OV.



Yes, but they do not honor the unit on the reservation - they can and do put you anywhere they want.  There is a pecking order and exchangers come after owners and Elite Owners, when they assign the units.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 12, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I called the Westin after my trade went through to see what view and they had indicated it was OV. When I traded into a 1 br in May as I was getting on a plane that morning, I didn't check and when I arrived there, I was assigned one of the worst "island view" units - first floor facing the other building with trees in front of the balcony so the unit was dark. We did end up moving to another unit, again with trees but at least not in front of the the other building so you didn't get any light.



What does 'calling the Westin' mean?  Calling the resort directly? For Sept? Villa locations are not set that far in advance (at least they didn't use to be...)


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Yes, but they do not honor the unit on the reservation - they can and do put you anywhere they want.  There is a pecking order and exchangers come after owners and Elite Owners, when they assign the units.



So even though I have an OV now, they can change it before I get there ? That is crap!


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

No, you don't have a specific unit, you just have an exchange for a specific TYPE of unit.  The unit number is basically just for inventory control.  If you check with II they will tell you that on an exchange the specific location of the unit is NEVER guaranteed - it's been that way forever...

Now it's possible that you could get an ocean view, but all of the owners at the resort, and Elite Owners, etc., will have higher priority than you do to get an ocean view.  Why? - because they paid a LOT of $$$$


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> What does 'calling the Westin' mean?  Calling the resort directly? For Sept? Villa locations are not set that far in advance (at least they didn't use to be...)



You are right, the unit is not assigned but according to the front desk, it is OV that is on the reservation for now.


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## VacationForever (Jul 12, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> So even though I have an OV now, they can change it before I get there ? That is crap!



I won't call it crap, just give priority to the folks who paid big bucks to the developer...


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

sptung said:


> I won't call it crap, just give priority to the folks who paid big bucks to the developer...



Still CRAP! Then they shouldn't have it in their file then if they aren't going to necessarily honor it.


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Still CRAP! Then they shouldn't have it in their file then if they aren't going to necessarily honor it.



Again - with II exchanges, the specific unit is never guaranteed.  I bet it says that on your confirmation.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Starwood is not alone in changing views.  Views are never guaranteed when exchanging.  For resorts without fixed weeks and fixed units exchangers almost always get the worst views.  

There is a reason people often say buy where you want to go and it is not always to save money but to ensure the availability and the view that you want.  When exchanging I always assume I am going to get the worst view/unit possible and ask for something more and if I get it I am pleasantly surprised.  If the worst possible view is unacceptable you should not trade into that resort.  There is also a reason that people prefer to exchange into wkorv-n so that when an island view is assigned it won't be the "dreaded parking lot view" at wkorv.  For some people it is all about the view.  For others it is about being on the trip at a resort with great amenities.  If they want a view they will have to skip the lanai and go to another part of the resort.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> No, you don't have a specific unit, you just have an exchange for a specific TYPE of unit.  The unit number is basically just for inventory control.  If you check with II they will tell you that on an exchange the specific location of the unit is NEVER guaranteed - it's been that way forever...
> 
> Now it's possible that you could get an ocean view, but all of the owners at the resort, and Elite Owners, etc., will have higher priority than you do to get an ocean view.  Why? - because they paid a LOT of $$$$



I did see that on II that there is no guarantee and I understand that but when the Westin resort itself is telling you that you have an OV, I would have assumed that to be what I would be assigned.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> Starwood is not alone in changing views.  Views are never guaranteed when exchanging.  For resorts without fixed weeks and fixed units exchangers almost always get the worst views.
> 
> There is a reason people often say buy where you want to go and it is not always to save money but to ensure the availability and the view that you want.  When exchanging I always assume I am going to get the worst view/unit possible and ask for something more and if I get it I am pleasantly surprised.  If the worst possible view is unacceptable you should not trade into that resort.  There is also a reason that people prefer to exchange into wkorv-n so that when an island view is assigned it won't be the "dreaded parking lot view" at wkorv.  For some people it is all about the view.  For others it is about being on the trip at a resort with great amenities.  If they want a view they will have to skip the lanai and go to another part of the resort.



That is reasonable enough. Maybe I was just lucky getting a great oceanfront view last time at the MOC, but I did not expect the view of the next building and trees in March. The view isn't everything, but when it looks like you are in a dungeon with no light, it does make a difference plus not having that much privacy as it was also right in front of the walkway between the buildings, thus the need for trees to give you a bit of privacy.

It was a nice unit inside though.


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I did see that on II that there is no guarantee and I understand that but when the Westin resort itself is telling you that you have an OV, I would have assumed that to be what I would be assigned.



Did you tell them you have a II exchange, and ask them if you will get the number on your exchange confirmation?



> Maybe I was just lucky getting a great oceanfront view last time at the MOC



Marriott and Starwood have different policies - with Marriott it's not guaranteed either, but you do usually get the unit on the confirmation.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Did you tell them you have a II exchange, and ask them if you will get the number on your exchange confirmation?
> 
> 
> 
> Marriott and Starwood have different policies - with Marriott it's not guaranteed either, but you do usually get the unit on the confirmation.



They did know that it was an II exchange and it was confirmed twice that it was an OV, so hopefully they will keep with that.


----------



## tschwa2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Marriott is also moving toward not assigning the better view to exchangers even at the resorts where in the past they have.  Part of the reason is the destination club and also paid reservations.  They would rather take more money or more points and assign guaranteed views to these customers because they know they haven't guaranteed views to exchangers they can take the good views and reassign them.

Unfortunately telling you that final assignments haven't been made and you have the view "for now" really means nothing.  What is on the confirmation is what was put in the exchange pool for your confirmation.  Most Starwood resorts make the final room assignments less than a week in advance.  Some take general request before hand, some don't.  Even the ones that do have a pecking order based on ownership and time of request.

edit: change exchange pull to exchange pool.   I am doing a unit on homophones with my son and all of the sudden I keep coming up with the wrong word.  Earlier today I was writing an email and wrote not your fought instead of not your fault.


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## Ken555 (Jul 12, 2012)

I've had great luck in obtaining OV units at WKORV in the past, with only one or two real IV units (at North). There is absolutely no way SVN, II or the resort will guarantee any type of view unit on an II trade. Don't be disappointed if you don't get a good location... Even calling the resort before arrival won't help. I have found being extremely courteous during checking occasionally results in a positive experience, though...


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

Some rude posts, and responses to the posts have been deleted.

Let's get back on topic, K?


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Some rude posts, and responses to the posts have been deleted.
> 
> Let's get back on topic, K?



Thanks, Denise.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Some rude posts, and responses to the posts have been deleted.
> 
> Let's get back on topic, K?



Fair enough. I apologize for my response, as it just rubbed me the wrong way at the right time.

I appreciate the responses that have enlightened me on what to anticipate.


----------



## nokaoi9 (Jul 12, 2012)

Denise,

Thank you for all the helpful posts and for the clarification on the weeks.

Can you explain how to tell by the week/unit whether or not a week is Gold Plus/Red?  I have a friend looking to buy SDO and would like to try to help them through the process.

Thank you,
James


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## scootr5 (Jul 12, 2012)

nokaoi9 said:


> Denise,
> 
> Thank you for all the helpful posts and for the clarification on the weeks.
> 
> ...



A Gold Plus will be a 1-52 float (Starwood does not use the term Red). These were sold by the original developer before Starwood bought them and changed to the Platinum/Gold/Silver seasons. They should look for that or a Platinum 1-21, 51-52.


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## DeniseM (Jul 12, 2012)

scootr5 said:


> A Gold Plus will be a 1-52 float (Starwood does not use the term Red). .



When you deposit a 1-52 week with II, it shows up at Gold Plus/Red in your II Acct.


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## scootr5 (Jul 12, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> When you deposit a 1-52 week with II, it shows up at Gold Plus/Red in your II Acct.



I stand corrected - I have not noticed that on mine!


----------



## lily28 (Jul 12, 2012)

I got an II exchange into Wkorv last month. My confirmation said building 2 oceanview. When I checked in, I got island view building 4 which looked directly into the side of another building with no view at all.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

lily28 said:


> I got an II exchange into Wkorv last month. My confirmation said building 2 oceanview. When I checked in, I got island view building 4 which looked directly into the side of another building with no view at all.



That sounds like the building I was in. Mine was right in the centre of the other building and we were on the main floor that made it worse, other than that the accommodations were fantastic and certainly for what I paid to trade into it, well worth it.


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## jarta (Jul 12, 2012)

lily28 said:


> I got an II exchange into Wkorv last month. My confirmation said building 2 oceanview. When I checked in, I got island view building 4 which looked directly into the side of another building with no view at all.



What makes you think that II traders should come before Starwood owners on room assigments at a Starwood resort?

Your confirmation is issued by II, not Starwood.  The above posts tell you what the general pecking order is - all based upon availability at the resort for the week reserved.

WKORV and WKORV-N owners first.
Starwood owners and Starwood Elites from other resorts next.
II traders and resort rentals at the bottom.

I happen to like the Starwood pecking order since I own 6 Starwood weeks.  If I ever deposit my weeks in II and trade, for example, into a Marriott timeshare, I would not expect to be assigned a room until all the Marriott owners staying at that resort are assigned rooms.  Would you like it if II assigned me a better room than you had at your own resort when I traded in?

If you have a complaint about what's placed on the II confirmation, bring it up with II.  Starwood does not generate the II confirmations.   Salty


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## LisaH (Jul 12, 2012)

jarta said:


> *What makes you think that II traders should come before Starwood owners on room assigments at a Starwood resort*?
> 
> Your confirmation is issued by II, not Starwood.  The above posts tell you what the general pecking order is - all based upon availability at the resort for the week reserved.
> 
> ...



Salty, did you run out of meds today or something? Geez, please calm down...All Lily28 did was to report that whatever states on the II confirmation may not be what you get assigned at the time of check-in. I do not sense complaint from her post.


----------



## Quadmaniac (Jul 12, 2012)

jarta said:


> What makes you think that II traders should come before Starwood owners on room assigments at a Starwood resort?
> 
> Your confirmation is issued by II, not Starwood.  The above posts tell you what the general pecking order is - all based upon availability at the resort for the week reserved.
> 
> ...



Not sure what your problem is, but you seem to have some anger issues you might want to deal with.

I would have thought that if an owner deposited an OV unit into the trading system, that this would be the unit available to the person it is traded to through II. If it is that an OV is deposited and Starwood steals it to replace it with an IV/MV, that would be kind of unethical. At the same stroke, if it is an IV/MV that is deposited then that is what a trader should receive.

No one is saying that we get preferential treatment, just fair treatment with what was given up and traded.


----------



## DeniseM (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I would have thought that if an owner deposited an OV unit into the trading system, that this would be the unit available to the person it is traded to through II.



I understand what you are saying, but that is not the standard practice in the industry - regardless of the timeshare or exchange company.  The standard practice is that the resort places the owners at the resort in the best units, and then exchangers are placed in the remaining units, after owners.  Owners would be very unhappy if that changed.


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## VacationForever (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I would have thought that if an owner deposited an OV unit into the trading system, that this would be the unit available to the person it is traded to through II. If it is that an OV is deposited and Starwood steals it to replace it with an IV/MV, that would be kind of unethical. At the same stroke, if it is an IV/MV that is deposited then that is what a trader should receive.
> 
> No one is saying that we get preferential treatment, just fair treatment with what was given up and traded.



I believe this is how it works.  Starwood does several bulk deposits into II throughout the year and while they do include IV and OV unit numbers, the units are not associated with named owners/units.  Bulk deposit is done as an estimation as to how many units would be deposited by owners as well as extra developer units.  When the actual assignment is done the week prior to check-in, Starwood assigns according to the pecking order as stated by Jarta.  There are many II traders who have gotten ocean view units through the assignment process but the unit on the II certificate is meaningless to Starwood as they do not even look at the assignment on the II certificate in their process.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> I understand what you are saying, but that is not the standard practice in the industry - regardless of the timeshare or exchange company.  The standard practice is that the resort places the owners at the resort in the best units, and then exchangers are placed in the remaining units, after owners.  Owners would be very unhappy if that changed.



So an owner of an IV/MV would get a free upgrade to an OV if it is available ? Isn't that a slap in the face of those paying the premium for an OV ?


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## LisaH (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> So an owner of an IV/MV would get a free upgrade to an OV if it is available ? Isn't that a slap in the face of those paying the premium for an OV ?



But if an exchanger using a cheapo week to exchange into a Starwood resort is placed in an OV unit, isn't that a slap in the face of those IV/MV owners who paid big bucks initially and then big M/Fs every year and end up in IV/MV units? If I were the OV owners, I would rather see the IV/MV onwers get OV units rather than exchangers (BTW, I am the one who use SDO cheapo week to exchange into WKORV ).


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2012)

LisaH said:


> But if an exchanger using a cheapo week to exchange into a Starwood resort is placed in an OV unit, isn't that a slap in the face of those IV/MV owners who paid big bucks initially and then big M/Fs every year and end up in IV/MV units? If I were the OV owners, I would rather see the IV/MV onwers get OV units rather than exchangers (BTW, I am the one who use SDO cheapo week to exchange into WKORV ).



But this is assuming they they used a cheapo week to get it. What if they didn't and used something like a MOC with equivalent fees ? I know the system won't change because of what we believe is right, but it is a bit unethical in my opinion if the resorts skims a good unit and replaces with a poor one. But it is what it is.


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## DeniseM (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> So an owner of an IV/MV would get a free upgrade to an OV if it is available ? Isn't that a slap in the face of those paying the premium for an OV ?



Let's look at it this way: Let's say the resort is assigning units for this coming Saturday, and that all of the ocean view and ocean front owners have been placed in their deeded units, and Elite Owners have been assigned, and there are still the following people to be placed - how would you rank them for priority for view?

[Staroptions exchanger] - edited to reflect other opinions in this thread
II exchanger - and a Starwood owner
II exchanger - but not a Starwood owner











The way I ranked them above, is how the resort ranks them.


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## LisaH (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> But this is assuming they they used a cheapo week to get it. What if they didn't and used something like a MOC with equivalent fees ?* I know the system won't change because of what we believe is right, but it is a bit unethical in my opinion if the resorts skims a good unit and replaces with a poor one. But it is what it is.*



You got it. Anyway, it really does not matter what you use to exchange. Once it goes through II or RCI, everything is equal as long as you get in. Few resorts will honor what's on the II confirmation with regard to views etc. One exception I believe is that many resorts try to get owners exchanging back or those who own within the network (Marriott, SW, Hilton, Hyatt, etc) the best units available. I know Wyndham/Pahio Shearwter does (where I own), and I believe others do that as well.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> So an owner of an IV/MV would get a free upgrade to an OV if it is available ? Isn't that a slap in the face of those paying the premium for an OV ?



With Starwood an IV owner who books in the owner priority period will almost always get an IV but will usually get the better IV's available.  SVN elite owners trading in with Staroptions have the best chance of being upgraded to a OV or OF unit.  Then SVN users who have the earliest time stamp for trading in using staroptions.  Finally comes II exchangers and being an elite SVN owner or multiple non starwood owner might help as would knowing the manager or the person who makes the room assignments.  A person booking a room through starwoodhotels.com and booking an ocean view or ocean front room would also get what they booked.  I am not sure where someone using StarPoints (hotel) points to book a room would rate.  Platinum and maybe even gold might be upgraded before II exchangers.  Silver and regular members might be in the same category at II exchangers.  

I believe an IV owner at a Marriott resort may be more likely to be upgraded in  view especially if they own multiple units, but only after the OF and OV owners and Destination points owners booking the better views are accommodated.  With Marriott, II exchangers who own at a particular resort and/or multiple units with Marriott also have a better chance than someone who doesn't own a MVCI property or who traded in with a non Marriott.  But with Marriott it also depends on the resort.  Some almost always give exchangers what is on the II exchange confirmation.  Others almost completely ignore the confirmation and base it on the priority system.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Let's look at it this way: Let's say the resort is assigning units for this coming Saturday, and that all of the ocean view and ocean front owners have been placed in their deeded units, and Elite Owners have been assigned, and there are still the following people to be placed - how would you rank them for priority for view?
> 
> Island View owner at the resort
> II exchanger - and a Starwood owner
> ...



I can appreciate what you are saying, it just seems a bit greasy. In the "ideal" world, if there were say 10 OV and 5 were give up to trade, they would belong to II and the other 5 OV would be available for deeded owners to book. 

If this is the case, what is preventing my resorts from converting my Platinum week I am depositing into a silver week to give to II ? Isn't that the same thing ? No wondering timesharing gets a bad rap with things like this going on, on top of everything else...jeeze. 

Well learn a new thing everyday....


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## DeniseM (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> If this is the case, what is preventing my resorts from converting my Platinum week I am depositing into a silver week to give to II ? I



Not a darn thing!     Starwood has a lot of control of the inventory, and we have no idea what really goes on behind the scenes.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Not a darn thing!     Starwood has a lot of control of the inventory, and we have no idea what really goes on behind the scenes.



Nice...lol 

On a side topic, do people find that SDO is a better trader or SR ? As you said Marriott has way more properties, as such we see more, so would you say SR therefore gives more options being Marriott ? I was planning on selling my Fairmonts and maybe adding another Marriott like Willow Ridge possibly if Marriott has more opportunities for trades.


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## Ken555 (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I can appreciate what you are saying, it just seems a bit greasy. In the "ideal" world, if there were say 10 OV and 5 were give up to trade, they would belong to II and the other 5 OV would be available for deeded owners to book.
> 
> If this is the case, what is preventing my resorts from converting my Platinum week I am depositing into a silver week to give to II ? Isn't that the same thing ? No wondering timesharing gets a bad rap with things like this going on, on top of everything else...jeeze.
> 
> Well learn a new thing everyday....



Actually, this is exactly what goes on at the resorts now and then. Once a Starwood unit is relinquished its up to SVN what to deposit with II. They can deposit a week at your resort in your deeded season, another season or even another resort within the network (within limits, which they don't tell us). 

You're getting a good understanding of how this works. It's not necessarily ethical in terms what you expect, but once you understand the system and start to use it to your advantage (which is very possible) then you will be ahead of most exchangers. 

As far as WKORV is concerned, I've always thought it a bit off base for IV owners to almost always get an IV unit while II exchangers can easily get OV. I once heard that they do this as a way to encourage exchangers to purchase by having a good view unit during their stay. But, we all know most don't.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> As far as WKORV is concerned, I've always thought it a bit off base for IV owners to almost always get an IV unit while II exchangers can easily get OV. I once heard that they do this as a way to encourage exchangers to purchase by having a good view unit during their stay. But, we all know most don't.



Sweet! That is the best news I've heard all day!!!!       

Oh god, please give me OV....


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## DeniseM (Jul 13, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> On a side topic, do people find that SDO is a better trader or SR ?



If you want to trade into Starwood, then SDO is better.  If you want to trade into Marriott, then a Marriott TS is better.  Each has priority for exchanges from their own system - but not the other system.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 13, 2012)

As mentioned - based on the number of OVs vs. IVs - AND - IV Owners are not upgraded to OV (they get what they own - to the point they should do an SVN exchange to go from IV to OV) - many II exchangers report getting OVs.

Quad - you call the front desk ('resort') and ask some dweeb working on the low side of the income scale who essentially gets hassled and harangued all day long by people staying at the resort expecting more - while this poor guy/girl is just trying to make customers fell 'refreshed' - and you what assurance about your II location in Sept knowing that II location stated as OV is not guaranteed  - and call it 'crap' and not fair... Hmmmmm... 

The best advice you have received here is to expect the minimal and be joyful if something better comes along (and it helps to be nice...). I have watched first hand the action at the Front Desk - with great sympathy to those Front Desk folks spending way too much time with people feeling entitled (often w/o that right) and keeping a smile on their face all the while (couldn't pay me enough...)


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 13, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> If you want to trade into Starwood, then SDO is better.  If you want to trade into Marriott, then a Marriott TS is better.  Each has priority for exchanges from their own system - but not the other system.



I am aware of that but just wondering if you have to choose between the two - Marriott or Starwood ? I know it is a hard question to answer and everyone has their preferences but is there anything that would favor one over the other ?


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## Beefnot (Jul 13, 2012)

Quality is the same, so variety of locations and which reward system you most care about might be key considerations.


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## SDKath (Jul 13, 2012)

I think Starwood's quality is actually better than the Marriott TS's I have been in, but I think it's personal preference and this debate rages on forever and ever.  Marriott is a lot harder to trade into using II, even with their preference.  And often owners don't get their owner's week at 12 months out even if they call at 6am sometimes.  That would drive me bonkers!

So I stick with Starwood (although I do own one Marriott at Shadow Ridge that I use to trade into Newport Coast off season).  Katherine


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## LisaH (Jul 13, 2012)

SDKath said:


> I think Starwood's quality is actually better than the Marriott TS's I have been in, but I think it's personal preference and this debate rages on forever and ever.  Marriott is a lot harder to trade into using II, even with their preference.  And often owners don't get their owner's week at 12 months out even if they call at 6am sometimes.  That would drive me bonkers!
> 
> So I stick with Starwood (although I do own one Marriott at Shadow Ridge that I use to trade into Newport Coast off season).  Katherine



I agree. I also own both Starwood and Marriott. I use SDO for exchange, and rent Marriott Canyon Villas week for money. It's much easier to exchange SDO week for other Starwod resorts with II, and it's a real pain to reserve a prime Marriott week within my usage period.


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## jarta (Jul 13, 2012)

LisaH said:


> Salty, did you run out of meds today or something? Geez, please calm down...All Lily28 did was to report that whatever states on the II confirmation may not be what you get assigned at the time of check-in. I do not sense complaint from her post.



Hi Lisa!  No, took my meds last night and today.   

But what irks me are II traders with an excessive sense of entitlement as to how they should be assigned rooms by Starwood.  Can you imagine the scenes at the front desk?  I don't have to.  Like David, I have seen them.  

I feel if you don't want to play by Starwood's (or Marriott's or HGVC's or Disney's) rules there is an easy solution other than banging away on this thread for days on end.     See last 75 posts here.

Go elsewhere with your II trading power.   Salty


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## Beefnot (Jul 13, 2012)

jarta said:


> Hi Lisa!  No, took my meds last night and today.
> 
> But what irks me are II traders with an excessive sense of entitlement as to how they should be assigned rooms by Starwood.  Can you imagine the scenes at the front desk?  I don't have to.  Like David, I have seen them.
> 
> ...



Jarta, is icydog your sister?


----------



## lily28 (Jul 13, 2012)

Jarta, when I was given building 4 as an exchanger last month, I did not argue with the front desk at all.  After all, I have read a lot about what to expect as an II exchanger on this forum. Disappointed yes, argue no.  On a side note, when I exchanged into marriott Maui MOC Christmas 2010, I got oceanview as indicated in my II confirmation.  When I was in Hilton Hawaiian village last month, I was upgraded from island view to oceanview. I don't own any Marriott or Hilton ts.  On the other hand, I own 7 Starwood ts all resales; I don't think that makes any difference in the room assignment.


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## kenie (Jul 15, 2012)

As of now, we will be at WKORN for 3 weeks in January because we used our SDO weeks to exchange in. If we had to rent, we wouldn't be going for 3 weeks 
Our confirmation numbers on our II certificates indicate that they are all resort view units.
To be honest, I would love to show up and be placed in an OF or OV unit, but I don't expect this to happen.
And really, it's just not that big of a deal.

We'll be on Maui and I can walk a few feet to have my Ocean view.


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## jarta (Jul 15, 2012)

kenie said:


> As of now, we will be at WKORN for 3 weeks in January because we used our SDO weeks to exchange in. If we had to rent, we wouldn't be going for 3 weeks
> Our confirmation numbers on our II certificates indicate that they are all resort view units.
> To be honest, I would love to show up and be placed in an OF or OV unit, but I don't expect this to happen.
> And really, it's just not that big of a deal.
> ...



Bravo!  

For some people, trading cheap SVO MFs for expensive WKORV MF rooms in Maui is just not reward enough.  

I hope the resort is sufficiently uncrowded in January that you can be assigned a OV room.  It happens.  Enjoy!   Salty


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 17, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> For the most part, it's common sense:  ski weeks at ski resorts, winter in the desert, March in MLB Spring Training areas, holiday weeks almost everywhere.
> 
> There are no fixed weeks at SDO.
> 
> ...



So what is the real difference between Gold Plus and Platinum ? Are they not close to equal if Gold Plus is floating 1-52 and Platinum 1-21, 50-52 ???? It seems like they both have the same access to the same weeks. I just figured mine must be Gold Plus instead of Platinum.

Thanks in advance


----------



## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> So what is the real difference between Gold Plus and Platinum ? Are they not close to equal if Gold Plus is floating 1-52 and Platinum 1-21, 50-52 ???? It seems like they both have the same access to the same weeks. I just figured mine must be Gold Plus instead of Platinum.
> 
> Thanks in advance



When you are making a home resort reservation, they do have access to the same weeks, but they are still different seasons, with different trading power.

Platinum is a higher season than Gold Plus, and has more Staroptions (if it is in the SVN) and it also has slightly higher trading power in II. Note that a resale will not be in the SVN.

Trade tests have shown, that for the most difficult trades, a Plat week has more trading power.

These are the seasons ranked from highest to lowest:
Platinum
Gold Plus
Gold
Silver

Platinum weeks are more expensive and far more difficult to find, so for a good trader, most people buy a Gold Plus (1-52 floating) week.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 17, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> When you are making a home resort reservation, they do have access to the same weeks, but they are still different seasons, with different trading power.
> 
> Platinum is a higher season than Gold Plus, and has more Staroptions (if it is in the SVN) and it also has slightly higher trading power in II. Note that a resale will not be in the SVN.
> 
> ...



Is it because they are averaging all the high value weeks in platinum vs gold plus which would average the high and low value weeks into the "value" of my deposit ? 

I didn't really consider Staroptions, but did I read something about re-qualifying ? Is that something I should consider to give me more trading options ? 

So far, I have to be honest, I haven't seen any real benefit of my SDO yet as none of my request have come through and I can't see any of the
priority that was described as you said that it usually doesn't show up as the requests usually get it.


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Is it because they are averaging all the high value weeks in platinum vs gold plus which would average the high and low value weeks into the "value" of my deposit ?



Yes



> I didn't really consider Staroptions, but did I read something about re-qualifying ? Is that something I should consider to give me more trading options ?



No - to requalify this week you'd have to spend a minimum of $20,000 on a developer purchase.  If you want Staroptions - just buy a resale at a mandatory resort (a resort that has Staroptions on a resale.)  Also, your week is not a good one to requalify, because it's not Platinum - it will have fewer Staroptions.  For requalifying, you need a Plat week, and that's why they are expensive and hard to find.



> So far, I have to be honest, I haven't seen any real benefit of my SDO yet as none of my request have come through and I can't see any of the
> priority that was described as you said that it usually doesn't show up as the requests usually get it.



The most successful strategy for a II exchange includes:

1)  Put in an on-going request as early as possible (12 or more mos. out) so it's in place BEFORE the deposits are made, and ahead of other exchangers.

2)  Request a wide-range of weeks.

3)  Request as many resorts as possible

4)  Even though the online inventory is the leftovers, sometimes gems pop up, so it's worthwhile to keep checking it, even when you have an on-going request in place.  If you see something you want, you can still grab it online, which will automatically cancel your on-going request.

5)  If you need a specific check-in day, you must call II after putting in your request online and specify the day of the week.  Otherwise, your on-going request automatically defaults to Thursday, so your check-in day could be Thurs., Fri., Sat., or Sun.

Strategies that will decrease your chances of getting a trade:

1)  Only requesting school holidays
2)  Only requesting one specific week
3)  Only requesting the very top resort in an area (which you may not have the trading power for)


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 17, 2012)

Sweet thanks!


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 17, 2012)

*Sorry one more*

I think I was reading for Staroptions, the biggest bang for your buck Staroptions vs MF is still Westin Kierland Villas ?


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I think I was reading for Staroptions, the biggest bang for your buck Staroptions vs MF is still Westin Kierland Villas ?



WKV has the best maintenance fee to Staroption ratio, but this makes it a popular resale, so a 2 bdm. Plat week (148,100 Staroptions) will run you $13-$15K.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 17, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> WKV has the best maintenance fee to Staroption ratio, but this makes it a popular resale, so a 2 bdm. Plat week (148,100 Staroptions) will run you $13-$15K.



Jeeze that does not seem worth it when the SDO can be had for under $1000. I searched a bit more and reading up on it. It seems like it is better to just go buy SDO and trade through II than Starwood and Staroptions. For the difference, not sure if it is worth it for a little extra flexibility unless there was some absolute need. For the difference, I guess I can suffer


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## DeniseM (Jul 17, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Jeeze that does not seem worth it when the SDO can be had for under $1000. I searched a bit more and reading up on it. It seems like it is better to just go buy SDO and trade through II than Starwood and Staroptions. For the difference, not sure if it is worth it for a little extra flexibility unless there was some absolute need. For the difference, I guess I can suffer



Some people really want Staroptions - it's not worth the extra cost to me.  If you want to go to Westin St. John, or Harborside every year, owning Staroptions will give you an advantage, but most other exchanges can be done through II, as long as you don't have to have holiday weeks.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 17, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Some people really want Staroptions - it's not worth the extra cost to me.  If you want to go to Westin St. John, or Harborside every year, owning Staroptions will give you an advantage, but most other exchanges can be done through II, as long as you don't have to have holiday weeks.



Never been to Westin St. John, or Harborside so I guess I don't know what I am missing at this point but currently I am addicted to Hawaii. I am having trouble wrapping my mind about the extra cost as well. At this point I don't need holiday weeks except Xmas/NY maybe but otherwise I can go just about anytime with advanced notice.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 17, 2012)

Quad - there is much more to it, and really depends on your travel objectives. 'Investment in Vacation" is about the only truth that comes out of the TS salesperson's mouth (IMO). There are some people who prefer having good reliability/predictability for location (etc), but comes at a price.

SDO is definitely a good value in many instances - especially for II, but WKV can be a good value as well (at least so far). As well as owning OF WKORV and WSJ... (IMO)


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 17, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> Quad - there is much more to it, and really depends on your travel objectives. 'Investment in Vacation" is about the only truth that comes out of the TS salesperson's mouth (IMO). There are some people who prefer having good reliability/predictability for location (etc), but comes at a price.
> 
> SDO is definitely a good value in many instances - especially for II, but WKV can be a good value as well (at least so far). As well as owning OF WKORV and WSJ... (IMO)



For me at least, I don't need it, but it is more of a "want" and I agree it has been a bit of work, I would have to say I have found mostly had everything I was searching for in trades and the resorts I was looking for, so "if it isn't broken....."

I love WKORV and I went on a presentation there, but could not justify the MF nor the price, even on resale when I can trade in at a fraction of the price. I am in the process of bidding on another Marriott platinum timeshare that I think I am getting for closing and transfer fees.

Can you share with me why you feel the other resorts are good value with its higher prices and MF ?


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## Ken555 (Jul 17, 2012)

I like having a mix of units - most in II with Starwood priority. I have one WKV platinum week that I use for Hawaii and elsewhere, and it's nice to have since I can get a one bed unit for ~13 nights at most resorts anytime of year as long as there is availability rather than deal with II for every reservation. And, let's not forget that over the last few years II exchange fees have increased as well... That cheap week now requires ~$120-160 to II in addition to membership and the MF. I don't mind paying II, but I'm beginning to wonder how high they can increase their fees...


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 17, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> I like having a mix of units - most in II with Starwood priority. I have one WKV platinum week that I use for Hawaii and elsewhere, and it's nice to have since I can get a one bed unit for ~13 nights at most resorts anytime of year as long as there is availability rather than deal with II for every reservation. And, let's not forget that over the last few years II exchange fees have increased as well... That cheap week now requires ~$120-160 to II in addition to membership and the MF. I don't mind paying II, but I'm beginning to wonder how high they can increase their fees...



Could I ask how much WKV platinum cost you ? Just wondering the economics of the difference in buying it and higher MF vs paying the 120-160 in trades ? I know it is harder to quantify the priority aspect of it vs having to trade in II, but with two trades and the MF of SDO I am just a bit less than WKV MF plus the difference of the price from SDO to WKV. 

I was looking at buying in Hawaii initially and then reconsidered after reading about other options that were less costly like WKV and then evolved to SDO. It is amazing how much great information there is from all the fantastic posts from members!


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## Ken555 (Jul 18, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Could I ask how much WKV platinum cost you ? Just wondering the economics of the difference in buying it and higher MF vs paying the 120-160 in trades ? I know it is harder to quantify the priority aspect of it vs having to trade in II, but with two trades and the MF of SDO I am just a bit less than WKV MF plus the difference of the price from SDO to WKV.
> 
> I was looking at buying in Hawaii initially and then reconsidered after reading about other options that were less costly like WKV and then evolved to SDO. It is amazing how much great information there is from all the fantastic posts from members!



I paid more than the current rate, and I bought resale in 2005 with first use in 2006. I've posted my use history elsewhere in this forum (search...) but I can say that from 2006 to 2011 I've used my Platinum WKV week with 148k SOs to stay a total of 114 nights (19 nights/year) at an average cost at $68.34 (which includes MF, Taxes and SVN fees), in a combination of 1-bed and studio (or small 1-bed units) in a variety of seasons at many of the resorts (though mostly in Hawaii or at Harborside). I've banked this year's SOs and am unsure what to do with 296k SOs next year, but I'm sure I'll figure it out... 

More to your point, I figure that if I had to (or wanted to) sell WKV now I'd probably realize ~13-15k, which would make my average nightly use closer to $125, which is still quite reasonable IMO. I think it's interesting to note that over the same time period (2006-2011) my II trades have an average nightly cost of $115.30, though many of those are in 2- or even 3-bed units. Availability and scheduling are markedly different with all II trades, and if the up front expense didn't concern me I would have simply bought several WKV Platinum units and be done. So, I think a mix of both II traders and SVN properties makes sense for me, and it sounds as perhaps it might for you as well.

Also, over the last year or so I've considered changing my ownership a bit, and only recently added a SDO 2-bed EOY and I intend to give away or sell my SVR units, and may even add another SDO. The reasons for my SVR purchase no longer apply (2-bed fixed, with a one-time option to enroll in SVN for SOs, but it didn't work out for me and I likely wouldn't keep them anyway at only 76k SOs each), so my average nightly II cost will be reduced in future years (barring MF increases...). However, my SVR 2-bed units got great results including two, 2-bed units in the same week at Harborside for a family reunion, a 2-bed unit at WPORV, several units in WKORV (1 & 2-bed units), a Marriott ski week 2-bed, and more. I expect to get the same, or better, results from SDO.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 18, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> I paid more than the current rate, and I bought resale in 2005 with first use in 2006. I've posted my use history elsewhere in this forum (search...) but I can say that from 2006 to 2011 I've used my Platinum WKV week with 148k SOs to stay a total of 114 nights (19 nights/year) at an average cost at $68.34 (which includes MF, Taxes and SVN fees), in a combination of 1-bed and studio (or small 1-bed units) in a variety of seasons at many of the resorts (though mostly in Hawaii or at Harborside). I've banked this year's SOs and am unsure what to do with 296k SOs next year, but I'm sure I'll figure it out...
> 
> More to your point, I figure that if I had to (or wanted to) sell WKV now I'd probably realize ~13-15k, which would make my average nightly use closer to $125, which is still quite reasonable IMO. I think it's interesting to note that over the same time period (2006-2011) my II trades have an average nightly cost of $115.30, though many of those are in 2- or even 3-bed units. Availability and scheduling are markedly different with all II trades, and if the up front expense didn't concern me I would have simply bought several WKV Platinum units and be done. So, I think a mix of both II traders and SVN properties makes sense for me, and it sounds as perhaps it might for you as well.
> 
> Also, over the last year or so I've considered changing my ownership a bit, and only recently added a SDO 2-bed EOY and I intend to give away or sell my SVR units, and may even add another SDO. The reasons for my SVR purchase no longer apply (2-bed fixed, with a one-time option to enroll in SVN for SOs, but it didn't work out for me and I likely wouldn't keep them anyway at only 76k SOs each), so my average nightly II cost will be reduced in future years (barring MF increases...). However, my SVR 2-bed units got great results including two, 2-bed units in the same week at Harborside for a family reunion, a 2-bed unit at WPORV, several units in WKORV (1 & 2-bed units), a Marriott ski week 2-bed, and more. I expect to get the same, or better, results from SDO.



I was considering WKV and may still change my mind, it is just the high initial cost that has me kind of waivering. I could probably go with a studio or 1 br most times as it is usually just me or one friend with me. When I score the 2 br units, I usually try to invite a few people to come. I am getting better with traveling alone, but it is so much better when I can have some company.

So would you buy WKV again if you did not have it in your portfolio ?

Thanks


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 18, 2012)

Quad - (re: WKV) as mentioned, it depends.  Buying a TS is not a one-size fits all situation.  For example - traveling by yourself or 1 other person has different vacation needs than a couple with 4 kids, or a retired couple (etc.).  So far, I like owning WKV (plat) because I use it to offset our vacation expenses (by renting out for the last 4-5 years) - plus it is a great resort which makes it an easier rental, and so far has maintained its resale value (relatively).

Overall - I would say of the TSs that we own (or know of) - I really think OF WKORV offers the best value- and before I get called out on the definition of 'value' - I mean value for us, and not others except for perhaps a small percentage of people.  Others probably think (or already know...) we are crazy to spend the money for location when Maui is a good enough location on its own and why spend anytime in the villa, versus sharing a dance with my lovely wife on a large private lanai while watching a warm beautiful sunset...
get my gist?


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 18, 2012)

DavidnRobin said:


> Quad - (re: WKV) as mentioned, it depends.  Buying a TS is not a one-size fits all situation.  For example - traveling by yourself or 1 other person has different vacation needs than a couple with 4 kids, or a retired couple (etc.).  So far, I like owning WKV (plat) because I use it to offset our vacation expenses (by renting out for the last 4-5 years) - plus it is a great resort which makes it an easier rental, and so far has maintained its resale value (relatively).
> 
> Overall - I would say of the TSs that we own (or know of) - I really think OF WKORV offers the best value- and before I get called out on the definition of 'value' - I mean value for us, and not others except for perhaps a small percentage of people.  Others probably think (or already know...) we are crazy to spend the money for location when Maui is a good enough location on its own and why spend anytime in the villa, versus sharing a dance with my lovely wife on a large private lanai while watching a warm a beautiful sunset...
> get my jist?



Good points and you are right it is different for everyone. What do WKV usually rent for ? 

I think Maui is a great location as well, but I prefer to get there more economically if possible through trades. Gotta stretch those dollars nowadays.


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## Ken555 (Jul 18, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> I was considering WKV and may still change my mind, it is just the high initial cost that has me kind of waivering. I could probably go with a studio or 1 br most times as it is usually just me or one friend with me. When I score the 2 br units, I usually try to invite a few people to come. I am getting better with traveling alone, but it is so much better when I can have some company.
> 
> So would you buy WKV again if you did not have it in your portfolio ?
> 
> Thanks



Yes, I would. In fact, I'm still considering buying another at some point in the future, but for now I'm better served with a mix of SVN & II traders. I think the current prices are low for WKV Plat, but that's just my opinion (and we have plenty of those on TUG!). However, it's worth noting that WKV has also seen MF increase over the years, though it's still the best SO:MF$ @ ~$1414; in 2006 MF was $950. Unless things drastically change, I have a difficult time believing WKV will be worth zero for resale, especially if it remains part of SVN. 

Now for some guesses.

When I bought, I wasn't sure how long I would keep it, but I estimated at least 10 years. I'm now seven years down the road and I still see it as a great part of my t/s's, and can see keeping it another 10 years from now. 

Assuming:
- The initial investment is zero upon resale 10 years from now (17 years after purchase).
- I keep my average 19/nights/year for it throughout those years.
- Over the last seven years the average MF increase has been 6.97%, so let's call it 7%.
- SVN membership fee remains $125 per year.
- No special assessments needed at WKV during this time.
- I would earn 0% interest on my initial purchase fee (of course, given recent history, I would have a good chance of losing the money, too...but that's another story altogether). Many would factor in a modest interest on the purchase price as part of the overall cost, for obvious reasons.

FYI, this means in 2021 MF will be $2,773 + $125 SVN fee.

If these assumptions are true (big assumption), then:

- I will have paid $31,448 over 17 years in MF and SVN membership fees. 
- My average nightly cost will be $97.36 (for just MF & SVN fees).
- My average nightly cost will be $164 for MF, SVN fees AND original purchase and associated fees. 
- If I am able to realize $10,000 for my WKV Plat in 10 years when selling it, then my nightly cost for all fees would be $134.

Hopefully, this will let you see the real cost (based on my poor assumptions) and price you will pay for having the flexibility of a unit in SVN, with all the advantages of it, etc. For myself, I don't like always having a week away at a time - sometimes (like next Spring) I'm able to get two consecutive weeks at WKORV via II, but usually not, and when I travel there and to Harborside I prefer to stay at least 9-11 nights, which is possible with SOs but not with II (other than consecutive weeks...). 

FWIW, I've only stayed at WKV twice using SOs; once in September for 30,500 SOs for a week in a premium 1-bed and another time in December for 59,400 SOs for 10 nights in a prem 1-bed. All other times I've stayed in Hawaii, Harborside, etc. 

Does this help you make a decision? If not, what info are you missing?


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 18, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> Good points and you are right it is different for everyone. What do WKV usually rent for ?
> 
> I think Maui is a great location as well, but I prefer to get there more economically if possible through trades. Gotta stretch those dollars nowadays.



based on what you have said - it appears SDO may be in your future


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## vacationtime1 (Jul 18, 2012)

Quadmaniac said:


> What do WKV usually rent for ?



A prime (March) week rents for about $3,000.  At least that is what I received each of the past two years.


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## Beefnot (Jul 18, 2012)

vacationtime1 said:


> A prime (March) week rents for about $3,000.  At least that is what I received each of the past two years.



Holy cow.  While summer WKV is obtainable for $500-$600 on II Getaway.  What a differential.


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## Downhill1 (Jul 18, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Holy cow.  While summer WKV is obtainable for $500-$600 on II Getaway.  What a differential.




Spring training baseball is a big draw.  So many Major League teams playing in close proximity to WkV and great Arizona spring time weather equates to strong demand.


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 18, 2012)

vacationtime1 said:


> A prime (March) week rents for about $3,000.  At least that is what I received each of the past two years.



Wow, that's better than some Hawaii weeks!


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## Quadmaniac (Jul 18, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> Does this help you make a decision? If not, what info are you missing?



Wow great calculations. When the money situations gets a bit better, it sounds like it is worth considering based on your numbers. Thanks


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