# National Harbor; The town, the resort, and the sales pitch



## ronparise (Nov 24, 2011)

Im at National Harbor this week. Its Thanksgiving morning. Later today we'll drive to meet friends and family for dinner, 
Now I have some time to share my impressions of the place and their sales staff.

National Harbor is a "new town" on the Potomac, just down river from Washington DC. Historic "Old Town" Alexandria is just across the River and the Beltway crossing (Woodrow Wilson Bridge) is visible from my room.

As a DC native I can say National Harbor is a great location, convenient to everything in the area, by car, via the Beltway, or public transportation, bus water taxi and the Metro.

National Harbor is an enormous real estate development that had the misfortune of opening just as the real estate bubble was popping. There are shops, hotels, restaurants, offices, .condos and townhomes and of course a timeshare. So this is a place where you can live and work, shop and play; and walk to everything...I like it a lot; the concept, and the execution. If they can figure out how to sell and/or rent all the vacant space here, they'll really have something.

The downside...The streets are dead, the prices are high,everything seems to me to be priced in the upper middle, to very high price ranges...No fast food, no diners, no Bob Evans, Applebees, Dunkin Donuts etc places to eat. The grocery is the Potomac Gourmet Market, not the Giant. So either bring you own food, or lots of money.  And Parking: There is as I can see no free parking. I was told that Ill pay $10 a day when I check out. Parking meters are $3 an hour, 2 hour max. I dont see any cars on the street, They are all in Garages. We had guests here last night and they paid $11 to park. I think its too much

Bottom line...its difficult to do National Harbor on a budget

On the plus side.. The Wyndham resort is wonderful, plenty of activities, nice rooms (granite counters in the kitchen and baths. Id like to see the presidential units. I cant imagine the difference in quality would be worth the price. There is no washer and dryer in the room, but they are on the floor.

Some pictures at National Harbor

I attended the owner update. They did a good job of keeping to the 45 minutes promised. They did do a quick customer satisfaction survey of our ownership overall and of this stay. And they seemed genuinely interested in helping us get the most from our ownership. This was however a segue way to the "pitch" of the day. and I suspect everyone got the same pitch...He asked how much of our maintenance fees we actually paid. Seemed like a trick question because I pay all my maintenance fees. But he said most VIP owners were able to enjoy their ownership without paying and maintenance fees.  Of course I fell into the trap, and asked how.    Heres how:

1)Refer friends and family
2)Use the Barclays Visa card to earn windham rewards points that convert to dollars that can be applied to maintenance fees
3)exchange deeded points to rewards points to apply to maintenance fees.

None of these seemed to require the purchase of an additional contract, so I was waiting for the other shoe to drop...and it did.. 

Since none of the above three methods will pay all my fees, (for example I would have to charge more money than I make every year, to the visa card, to cover the fees for the points I own now.) I need to utilize all three methods, and of course the more points I exchange for maintenance fees the less i have to use, But since platinum owners get a 50% discount, the points I dont exchange go twice as far. I should buy enough new points to go platinum, or at the very least gold....and I should buy my new points here, because maintenance fees at National Harbor are among the lowest in the system.

None of this considered the cost of those new points which he quoted me at $220/1000 points, Even if I could cover maintenance fees as he suggested (and I dont think its possible) Id still be out the purchase price for new points.   And when I told him I rented time  that cost me half my points for enough to cover all my maintenance fees, last year...he said thanks and gave me my gift


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## rrlongwell (Nov 24, 2011)

ronparise said:


> 1) ... Refer friends and family



Do not count on this.  We refered a friend and they bought a retail purchase.  When I followed up on why this was not given, I was advised that Corportate uses this program but do not actually award the promised points.  Did they offer to take the re-sale contracts back in conjunction with a new purchase?  Their offer to me about a week ago was $127 per thousand points.


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## Cheryl20772 (Nov 25, 2011)

ronparise said:


> and I should buy my new points here, because maintenance fees at National Harbor are among the lowest in the system.
> 
> None of this considered the cost of those new points which he quoted me at $220/1000 points,


You mean they haven't sold out?  I was told a year ago that I needed to decide right away because National Harbor was selling out really fast.  In fact I was told before they were even open that they were already almost sold out.  You are so lucky to still have a chance to buy this prime real estate  

Hope you are having a nice holiday visit.  The weather sure is nice here today.


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## timeos2 (Nov 25, 2011)

Nice group of pictures.  They show the resort to be more or less the now typical & easily recognizable "cookie cutter" Wyndham tower resort layout (se it at Grand Desert, Old Town Alexandria, Bonnet Creek and many others from the past ten years) but in this case it appears to be shrunken in overall size & without the usual washer/dryer in the unit (a negative IMO) plus the usual smaller pools associated with high cost urban area timeshares. 

Overall it sound like Old Town Alexandria is the better featured/ located resort for that area.  Of course I'm sure you realize that like most newer Wyndham resorts they are lowballing the fees during sales and they will go up - as well as risking one or more special assessments - one the majority of sales are made as they have at virtually every other Wyndham in the past. I hope buyers have caught on to that part of the game by now. Even a resale purchase at the resorts still being heavily subsidized & under budgeted for reserves means a hefty annual fee jump before too long. Beware. NEVER buy retail Wyndham - buy or obtain for fee resale very selectively.


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## esk444 (Nov 25, 2011)

ronparise said:


> As a DC native I can say National Harbor is a great location, convenient to everything in the area, by car, via the Beltway, or* public transportation*, bus water taxi and the Metro.



I disagree with you there.  National Harbor was intentionally designed not to be public transportation friendly.  Though a nearby neighborhood is nice with McMansions (a part of Ft. Washington), the other surrounding areas are not nice (i.e. Oxon Hill).  So it was designed to be an isolated enclave for its guests and the few residential complexes.

The metro bus is designed to shuttle employees to and from home, not guests or tourists.  It's primary destination is the Branch Street metro station, which is not in a good neighborhood and then travels through the worst parts of DC.

They did this because they basically want to keep the riff raff out and prevent the area from being a teen hang out.  Since the primary target audience for National Harbor are business people and conventioneers on an expense account, they go out of there way to make it difficult and expensive for locals to hang out there.

Hardly any tourists ever use the public transportation system and most drive into DC, which is pretty convenient though a little tricky without a GPS.  So you have to pay parking both at the timeshare and then again in DC for the day.  The water taxi is a nice trip and amenity, but hardly something you'd use to commute into DC via Alexandria.  

Some hotels like the Gaylord operate a shuttle for a fee, but you'll have limited times.  A cab into or out of DC is around $20-25 each way.

I'd highly recommend getting a car if you intend to spend most of your time outside of National Harbor, particularly if you have children.


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## massvacationer (Nov 25, 2011)

Ron:

Nice update - and Pics - of National Harbor.  Very informative.  Looks like a nice resort that is in a location that will improve over time. 

I think we may take a family trip down to the DC area fairly soon and may stay there, because availability is generally better than the Wyndham in Alexandria.  I guess we'll plan to take the hit on the parking both at the resort and near the tourist attractions in DC, as we'll need to drive back and forth.


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## ronparise (Nov 26, 2011)

esk444 said:


> I disagree with you there.  National Harbor was intentionally designed not to be public transportation friendly.  Though a nearby neighborhood is nice with McMansions (a part of Ft. Washington), the other surrounding areas are not nice (i.e. Oxon Hill).  So it was designed to be an isolated enclave for its guests and the few residential complexes.
> 
> The metro bus is designed to shuttle employees to and from home, not guests or tourists.  It's primary destination is the Branch Street metro station, which is not in a good neighborhood and then travels through the worst parts of DC.
> 
> ...



I agree with everything you say about the public transportation..but would still argue that its convenient. not cheap, and depending on your perception, perhaps not safe. The  Metro does run through some "bad areas",  but if you thought Washington was only the Mall and the Monuments, Think again, this is a real city, not an attraction. There is an option, Take the water taxi across the river ($16 round trip) and you get the bonus of a boat ride on your way to a "better neighborhood" and the King St. Metro Stop. No question  Wyndham's  Old Town is better located for the Metro, but National Harbor works. I was surprised

There is no free parking in Natiional Harbor, The little street parking I saw, was metered, at $3 an hour, 2 hour minimum. The Wyndham has a deal with a garage across the street at $10 a day. I think the reason the locals dont come here as much as I would think they would is the parking. My wife's son came to see us and had to pay $11 to park.  Of course parking has been a problem in DC as long as I can remember. (my dad and I used to take the streetcar to Griffith Stadium to watch the Washington Senators in the 1950's because you couldnt find parking nearby) On this trip my wife and I drove into town to see the home she grew up in (some would say in a bad neighborhood) and to walk the halls of my high school at the corner on North Capitol and I Streets, (Gonzaga, class of 1964). It was in a bad neighborhood then; its not much better now). We had lunch at Luigi's (19th and M) A Washington Institution for pizza. where parking cost us $17

I would add to my original post..National Harbor is a great place to stay if you are visiting DC, and a destination in its own right; but bring money...it aint cheap...Oh and dont miss the Gaylord...I have some picture of that place that I will post later


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## ronparise (Nov 26, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> Nice group of pictures.  They show the resort to be more or less the now typical & easily recognizable "cookie cutter" Wyndham tower resort layout (se it at Grand Desert, Old Town Alexandria, Bonnet Creek and many others from the past ten years) but in this case it appears to be shrunken in overall size & without the usual washer/dryer in the unit (a negative IMO) plus the usual smaller pools associated with high cost urban area timeshares.
> 
> Overall it sound like Old Town Alexandria is the better featured/ located resort for that area.  Of course I'm sure you realize that like most newer Wyndham resorts they are lowballing the fees during sales and they will go up - as well as risking one or more special assessments - one the majority of sales are made as they have at virtually every other Wyndham in the past. I hope buyers have caught on to that part of the game by now. Even a resale purchase at the resorts still being heavily subsidized & under budgeted for reserves means a hefty annual fee jump before too long. Beware. NEVER buy retail Wyndham - buy or obtain for fee resale very selectively.



The "cookie cutter"  is what we like best. I know what to expect and I get it. 

We stayed at the Ocean Walk resort on our drive North (loved it) and on our way South, (hated it) Hated it enough that I didnt even unpack. We took one look at the room and left, never to return. I would have had a better experience at one of the $30 flop houses nearby.


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 26, 2011)

ronparise said:


> We stayed at the Ocean Walk resort on our drive North (loved it) and on our way South (hated it).



interesting....

what room did you have that you loved and what room did you have that you hated.  Was it room type and location that you hated.  Some of those small 1 BR with only a few of the hallway are horrible.

Just wondering if you could fill us in Ron?


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## timeos2 (Nov 26, 2011)

ronparise said:


> The "cookie cutter"  is what we like best. I know what to expect and I get it.
> 
> We stayed at the Ocean Walk resort on our drive North (loved it) and on our way South, (hated it) Hated it enough that I didnt even unpack. We took one look at the room and left, never to return. I would have had a better experience at one of the $30 flop houses nearby.



I agree about the "cookie cutter".  It is a surprise now if we get (usually an older or a resort Wyndham took over rather than built) a different style unit.  Just want people to realize that the only real difference in Wyndham units now tend to be, just like Disney, fancy lobby areas and maybe some bling on the walls.  The basics are more and more exactly the same regardless of where you decide to stay.  

Thankfully unlike many DVC's these aren't slightly enlarged hotel / suite units but full sized, fully equipped (usually) 1-2, 3 & more condos.  Only in the big urban areas do you find the situation of having a physically reduced uint and missing things like washer / dryers in the unit.  To get an urban location that isn't a bad trade off.


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## Cheryl20772 (Nov 26, 2011)

ronparise said:


> The "cookie cutter"  is what we like best. I know what to expect and I get it.
> 
> We stayed at the Ocean Walk resort on our drive North (loved it) and on our way South, (hated it) Hated it enough that I didnt even unpack. We took one look at the room and left, never to return. I would have had a better experience at one of the $30 flop houses nearby.



Wow!  What did they give you?  An interior with corridor windows?


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## AwayWeGo (Nov 26, 2011)

*Whoa!  The Cost Of Flop Houses Must Have Gone Up.*




ronparise said:


> I would have had a better experience at one of the $30 flop houses nearby.


Must be an example of location, location, location. 

By contrast, we paid $25 per night (+ tax & PriceLine fees) for a fantastic 1BR suite in a near-new StayBridge Suites.  (That was in Jacksonville FL, 2-3 years back.)  

Who knew it would be $30 for a flophouse ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## am1 (Nov 26, 2011)

Cheryl20772 said:


> Wow!  What did they give you?  An interior with corridor windows?



Probably what he booked. If it was just the room type/location someone has to stay there.  If the room was in poor condition it is best to ask for a  different room.  

Those 1 bedroom suites work great when it is part of a 2 bedroom lockoff.


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## ronparise (Nov 26, 2011)

Sandy Lovell said:


> interesting....
> 
> what room did you have that you loved and what room did you have that you hated.  Was it room type and location that you hated.  Some of those small 1 BR with only a few of the hallway are horrible.
> 
> Just wondering if you could fill us in Ron?



the one with the view of the hallway was the one we loved,,North Tower, 1625B, the small side of a lockoff, no jetted tub, which we use and enjoy a lot, but it had a full kitchen, with granite counters, a washer and dryer. Open the shades and our view was across the hallway through the hallway through a wall of windows to a view of the sunset (it was in the North Tower






I thought a did a good thing for the trip back and reserved a 1 bedroom deluxe, which if I read the points chart right as well as the floor plans on the Wyndham site, should have been half a lockoff with a balcony and I thought a view of the ocean. Our room was South Tower, 518 I think directly above the the check in desk. Our view was over the roof of the breezeway connecting the two towers to a wall. no balcony. This was a stand alone 1 bedroom, not like anything I see in the floorplans on the website.  I know this building has a 1950's art deco style, so Im not surprised the furniture had a 1950's feel to it. But honestly it didnt look like a reproduction it looked like the real thing, they found in a retro thrift store. 

Adding to our disappointment was that we had to park in the city garage across the street, in spite of the note on the website "Free parking for one vehicle per unit in our garages; additional vehicles can park across the street at the Ocean Walk Village Garage (connects to resort via overhead covered walkway; fee)"  (Ours wasnt an additional vehicle).  Im a big guy, and some have said "scary looking" Im getting old, but I dont admit it; and not much scares me.....but I was concerned for my safety, walking back to the lobby. Back at the lobby the desk clerk was renting a room, (cash transaction) to a young lady and her "date" for the rest of the evening. We were late checking in (midnight) and I believe another similar couple probably got our room, and the desk clerk the cash. (speculation to be sure, but an educated guess from my days as a slum landlord). There was no security at the building to curtail the street party in front of the building, and no securoty to prevent the party from moving into the lobby and pool area. While at the desk complaining, another gust was also complaining about the party on his floor

So it wasnt just the room, it was also "the whole place" but we probably would have stayed if we had been given the room we reserved.

The desk clerk either couldnt or wouldnt find another room, so we left


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## bamasteve (Nov 28, 2011)

ronparise said:


> The "cookie cutter"  is what we like best. I know what to expect and I get it.



I agree completely.  We stayed in the 4 Bedroom Presidential in the Spring 0f 2011.  It was excellent.  

Concerning the Branch Avenue Metro.  It is the best way into the city.  Our family Parked at the Metro Station each day (bus schedule just isn't practical).  Came back very late a few nights.  Although it did go through some rough neighborhoods, we always felt safe while on the metro, including while walking to our cars at Branch Street.  If you are a senior - it is worth it to get the senior discount metro card.


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## massvacationer (Nov 28, 2011)

*National Childrens Museum Coming to National Harbor 2013*

One other note on  Wyndham national Harbor

The National Children's Museum is supposed to be constructed just up the street from the Wyndham ... supposed to open in 2013... I think this is going to make the resort quite attractive to families with kids

www.ncm.museum


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## ronparise (Nov 28, 2011)

am1 said:


> Probably what he booked. If it was just the room type/location someone has to stay there.  If the room was in poor condition it is best to ask for a  different room.
> 
> Those 1 bedroom suites work great when it is part of a 2 bedroom lockoff.



they have three kinds of one bedroom units listed . and all three combine in various ways to make a lockoff... one bedroom, one bedroom suite and one bedroom deluxe. I had the one bedroom suite on the way north..and we liked that a lot. I thought I was moving up when I got the 1 bedroom deluxe for the trip back home. According to the floorplans on the website it should have been the large side of a lockoff. What they gave me was a one bedroom and I dont think it was part of a lockoff. In any case it wasnt what I reserved  and the desk clerk either wouldnt or couldnt find us another room. Im pretty sure it wasnt a Wyndham unit at all, but rather one of the condos in the building that are privately owned


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## am1 (Nov 28, 2011)

My apology.  The resort staff are usually very good at Ocean Walk.  They may have been overbooked.


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## chapjim (Nov 28, 2011)

am1 said:


> My apology.  The resort staff are usually very good at Ocean Walk.  They may have been overbooked.



Our experiences at Ocean Walk have been more like Ron's.  For the most part, front desk staff at Ocean Walk couldn't care less whether an owner or guest is even there let alone what they might want.  We've experienced indifference, surliness, insults, and outright hostility.  (And we own 1.5 million points at Ocean Walk!)

Ocean Walk definitely overbooks and only guarantees a guest (i.e., non-owner) a unit of the size in the reservation.  If an owner makes a reservation with a specific unit number, the owner will get that unit (barring something that renders the unit uninhabitable).

A few years ago, I reserved a 2BR ocean front unit with a unit number, rented it and my guest was given a "city view" unit at check-in.  I quit reserving specific units and quit representing any particular view in my listings since Ocean Walk will do whatever they feel like doing with a guest.


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## jont (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks for the update and pics Ron. I just bought a eoy points package there on ebay and I'm looking forward to using it for long weekend getaways.


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## Lardan (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks for the info and pictures, looked nice to us. I don't think one can go to a place like that and expect it to be cheap.

I blew it off, but I remember when we went to South Beach staying at a Marriott I had to pay for parking in adition to the rooms. I guess it was a good thing knowing next summer I'll have to pay for parking at BeachPlace Towers.


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 1, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Im pretty sure it wasnt a Wyndham unit at all, but rather one of the condos in the building that are privately owned



Regarding Ocean Walk units... we have stayed at OW several times.  We always were given a North tower unit.  Last time we got a South tower unit, and the desk clerk did apologize in advance that the room might not be up to standards of the North tower.  So, you may very well be right.  

We liked our room fine, but it was in the older decor.  What I didn't like was the roaches that lived around the kitchen sink.  I know those are very difficult to get rid of; so, aside from the ones I killed, they are probably still there!  I carried a dead one in a paper towel down to the front desk and they swore they would get rid of them! :hysterical: 

Note:  we did not ever yet see roaches at National Harbor.


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## ronparise (Dec 1, 2011)

I know I started this post about National Harbor but I got sidetracked  talking about Ocean Walk

Someone from Ocean Walk called me and said three things..1) they are sending me a complimentary 2 day stay there in a one bedroom deluxe, 2) the difference between my experience there from one week to the other was because Thanksgiving weekend is the Turkey Rod Run in Daytona, and like the Bike Weeks the town fills up with a different clientel than usual....They increase the security to deal with it. 3) the unit 518 in the South Tower is a Wyndham unit (and I confirmed this with the Volusia County Tax appraisors office) and The South Tower is scheduled for renovations soon

Im still not happy that I didnt get the room I reserved, but they are trying to make that right...so not happy, but ok

and Cheryl

I just noticed that you are a Maryland Girl.  Thats where I grew up and lived most of my life


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## Free2Roam (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheryl and i discovered (over on the wyndham forum) that we are practically neighbors!!:


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 2, 2011)

FreeIn2010 said:


> Cheryl and i discovered (over on the wyndham forum) that we are practically neighbors!!:


Hi, Juanita!  Yes, we are practically neighbors.  One day us Prince George's people need to circle our rockers and have a pow wow.


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## ronparise (Dec 2, 2011)

PG county was my home from 1950 - 1970....I dont recognize it now when I visit

Here are some of my memories 

Hot Shoppes & Mighty Moe
Tops Drive In
Tick Tock
Varsity Grill
the Voo 
Wilies Ice Cream
The tobacco auctions
Bladensburg Roller Rink
Marlboro Race Track  (and Marvin Mandel)
Parking lot #1 at the the University of Md
Blue Crabs, maryland style (and crab cakes)
Driving on Old Rt 1 before there was a Beltway or I95
Peace Cross

and just a short drive away
Slot Machines
Chesapeake Bay Beaches
sleeping on the Ocean City beach north of the boardwalk 
The Wilson Line boat rides to Marshall Hall
Glen Echo Park
The Tombs, (1789)


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## Free2Roam (Dec 3, 2011)

Wow! I remember some of those.  I've been here all my life and things change so much that I go to certain areas and I feel lost.


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## rrlongwell (Dec 3, 2011)

Update on the National Harbor Pitch.  Guy Devoy, identified by the front desk as a Sales Manager (works at the area that gives out the parking passes, does invatations for the Sales Pitches etc., invited my me to met with the sales staff.  I should up within the agreed upon time frame and was told by the Sales Staff that no one was available to meet with me.  The saleman I was talking to reconized from an earlier presentation that he had conducted and was arrogant and rude.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 3, 2011)

Robert,
Did you get your "loot" (gift, money)? Not your fault that they have you on the blacklist - you were invited and you can to listen to their pitch... Go back and get your "loot".


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## rrlongwell (Dec 3, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Robert,
> Did you get your "loot" (gift, money)? Not your fault that they have you on the blacklist - you were invited and you can to listen to their pitch... Go back and get your "loot".



Not only did not give me anything, which I would not do, the salesman wanted me to leave the resort immediately, which I would not do.  The sales staff here are very argonant and rude. P.S.  The room did not even come with wash cloths or dishwasher degerant.  The will not even do so when we asked for it.

P.S.  The alleged Sales Manager that works at the guest pass check-in area approached me as I was headed to the front door.  He indicated that I was being like this because of their Corporate Legal, he incidicated that they had a problem with me.  I also tried to talk to the duty manager.  He would not talk to me.


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## massvacationer (Dec 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Not only did not give me anything, which I would not do, the salesman wanted me to leave the resort immediately, which I would not do.  The sales staff here are very argonant and rude. P.S.  The room did not even come with wash clothes or dishwasher degerant.  The will not even do so when we asked for it.
> 
> P.S.  The alleged Sales Manager that works at the guest pass check-in area approached me as I was headed to the front door.  He indicated that I was being like this because of their Corporate Legal, he incidicated that they had a problem with me.



rrlongwell:
Just enjoy the resorts and stay away from the Sales Folks......as you know, they are a desperate lot and will say and do almost anything......I think if you avoid them, you will have a much better time


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## ronparise (Dec 3, 2011)

I met with a guy that also identified himself as a manager, I dont remember his name, but it wasnt Guy.. The salesman I met was named Steve. his sales approach was a little off putting looking down on me because I actually paid maintence fees...(his customers were smart enough to not pay and if I paid close attention to his presentation he would show me how) 

But he and the manager did take no for an answer, the first time and actually seemed to have some respect for me and the technique I use to offset my maintenance fees. (I rent my fixed weeks)


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## Joan-OH (Dec 3, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> Not only did not give me anything, which I would not do, the salesman wanted me to leave the resort immediately, which I would not do.



Am I missing something here?  I presume you were staying at the resort and the salesman had the audacity to ask you the leave the resort??????

Joan-OH


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## rrlongwell (Dec 3, 2011)

Joan-OH said:


> Am I missing something here?  I presume you were staying at the resort and the salesman had the audacity to ask you the leave the resort??????
> 
> Joan-OH



Yes and the resort Management will not intervien. I am going to check out at our regular time.  I do not think the Wyndham Sales Arm can make this stick.


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## antjmar (Dec 4, 2011)

My personal opinion is that the sales staff at National Harbor are the rudest and least educated group I have ever met! The rest of the staff was great!


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## am1 (Dec 18, 2011)

What do people think the demand is for National Harbor for Feb - July?  Specifically the 4 bedroom presidential units?  Demand for a week or just weekends?


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 18, 2011)

am1 said:


> What do people think the demand is for National Harbor for Feb - July?  Specifically the 4 bedroom presidential units?  Demand for a week or just weekends?



It depends on how many nights in a row you want and what day of the week.  There are lots of events planned around the Cherry Blossom Festival which begins March 25, and ends April 14th with the Cherry Blossom Parade and Sakura Matsuri Japanese Street Festival.

It's hard to get a 4 BR for the weekend of April 14th, but may not be impossible.  If you are willing to check in on the 11th, you can get 4 nights in a 4 BR.

When you say July, do you mean July 4th?  July 5th you can get 3 nights in a 4 BR, but aside from that, from the middle of June to the end of July, your chances are slim for a 4 BR.

Check in June 6 for 7 nights in 4 BR Presidential costs 700K points and I see 2 of them.


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## chapjim (Dec 18, 2011)

We were in a 4BR Presidential unit last 4th of July, top floor in a unit on the west end of the building, practically pointed at the National Mall.  However, the view of the fireworks was blocked by another building.  Had to stand on the furniture to see over the top!

National Harbor had a pretty nice fireworks show of its own and from our balcony we could see probably twenty little fireworks shows over in Virginia.

Went to the Nationals home game the afternoon of the 4th.  Took the Metro bus to the Branch Avenue rail station, then a few stops to Navy Yard.  The big advantage of going from Branch Avenue is you never get close to the National Mall.  Usually for Nationals' games, we drive to Crystal City and take Metro rail from there but that means going through the district -- not a good thing on the 4th of July unless you're actually going to the Mall.

Having stayed there three times since it opened, I'm sticking with my original opinion.  National Harbor the resort is fine for families.  National Harbor the development is fine for adults but way too expensive for families.


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## am1 (Dec 22, 2011)

I was more looking to find out the demand as far as renting out reservations goes.  

I have gone ahead and am giving it a try.  I am going to start with the 4 bedroom presidential units.  For both weeks, Sunday - Sunday, and weekends. I hope craigslist and Ebay will be able to reach enough customers.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 22, 2011)

chapjim said:


> ...National Harbor the resort is fine for families.  National Harbor the development is fine for adults but way too expensive for families.



Yee, sounds like DVC. I pack food in my second suitcase :ignore: for a DVC stay.


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## scootr5 (Dec 22, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Yee, sounds like DVC. I pack food in my second suitcase :ignore: for a DVC stay.



Have you tried Gardengrocer.com? I used them the last time we went to Disney and the prices/delivery were pretty reasonable. They did a nice job of picking out some fresh bananas and apples as well.


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## SusanRN (Dec 30, 2011)

*Another Marylander*

You can add this Columbia grandma to the pow wow. I just bought Wyndham in October and had my account set up yesterday, so I'll be reading this forum a lot.
Susan


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## Free2Roam (Dec 30, 2011)

SusanRN said:


> You can add this Columbia grandma to the pow wow. I just bought Wyndham in October and had my account set up yesterday, so I'll be reading this forum a lot.
> Susan



Howdy neighbor! Welcome to the Wyndham neighborhood.


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## rrlongwell (Jan 8, 2012)

Ron, you mentioned you now have a Club Wynhdam Access contract.  Do you want to run a test of availablity at National Harbor (or elsewhere for that matter) between a blended account like you have (Club Wyndham Select and Club Wyndham Access) and Club Wyndham Select only at the 10 month and under level?


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## ronparise (Jan 8, 2012)

I am still waiting to get the use of my CWA contract. Wyndham took forever to waive ROFR..so I cant do anything yet...But I dont see the need for a test at the ten month mark...Im pretty clear on how that will work..(Points are points at that point)

I will want to test this in the arp window at a few resorts


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## rrlongwell (Jan 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> I am still waiting to get the use of my CWA contract. Wyndham took forever to waive ROFR..so I cant do anything yet...But I dont see the need for a test at the ten month mark...Im pretty clear on how that will work..(Points are points at that point)
> 
> I will want to test this in the arp window at a few resorts



Let me know which ones.  Not sure how meaningful it will be.  Apparently ARP has changed recently.  When I would inquire about ARP rights before, you could use all home resort ARP rights that were associated with any given use year at the Home Resort in question.  As of this morning, Wyndham is advising that the ARP rights at a Home Resort are now limited to the points in any given contract even if the use years are the same.  If I read the member's directory correctly, the rule should be points at the home resort and not limited to the use years matching or limited to just one contract at the Home Resort when there are multiple ones in the Account.


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## nole9911 (Jan 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Im at National Harbor this week. Its Thanksgiving morning. Later today we'll drive to meet friends and family for dinner,
> Now I have some time to share my impressions of the place and their sales staff.
> 
> National Harbor is a "new town" on the Potomac, just down river from Washington DC. Historic "Old Town" Alexandria is just across the River and the Beltway crossing (Woodrow Wilson Bridge) is visible from my room.
> ...



    I work for Wyndham in Fairfield Glade.  National Harbour is awesome as are all of the new Wyndham Resorts.  Fairfield is one of the original Legacy Collection (Fairfield Resorts).  Even for existing owners I have deeds that sell for as little as 120.00 per 1000 points.


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## nole9911 (Jan 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> I am still waiting to get the use of my CWA contract. Wyndham took forever to waive ROFR..so I cant do anything yet...But I dont see the need for a test at the ten month mark...Im pretty clear on how that will work..(Points are points at that point)
> 
> I will want to test this in the arp window at a few resorts



CWA arp works great at the resorts and times that are typically hard to get...ie Myrtle Beach in July.  The ten month window seems to work at all other less high demand places and weeks.


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## vckempson (Jan 8, 2012)

nole9911 said:


> I work for Wyndham in Fairfield Glade.  National Harbour is awesome as are all of the new Wyndham Resorts.  Fairfield is one of the original Legacy Collection (Fairfield Resorts).  Even for existing owners *I have deeds that sell for as little as 120.00 per 1000 points*.



Such a deal!


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## rrlongwell (Jan 8, 2012)

vckempson said:


> Such a deal!



Actually, I am pleased there is a Wyndham person that identified himself as such on the thread.  I wonder if the Wyndham poster would let us know what the actual practice is for multiple contracts, same use year at a Home Resort is.  In other words if one owned a 154,000 thousand contract, a 77,000 contract, and a 266,000 contract what would the maxium points be, the total amount or 266,000 thousand points?

Also, if someone already had a bunch of VIP eligable points in their account, it could be.


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## ronparise (Jan 8, 2012)

nole9911 said:


> CWA arp works great at the resorts and times that are typically hard to get...ie Myrtle Beach in July.  The ten month window seems to work at all other less high demand places and weeks.



Can you answer the question that no one else will answer...of the 140 units at La Belle Maison and of the 254 units at Avenue Plaza; how many are available to CWA owners in the ARP window for the week  Feb 8 2013 to Feb 15 2013

A CWA owner I know called today...the first day of the ARP window for that date, and was told, "no availability"... why would anyone buy this stuff until you add more inventory to the CWA pool  

Until the CWA inventory reaches about 20% of the total at the CWA resorts...Illl pass


By the way yesterday I was offered a 100000 point contract by another Wyndham salesman for under $10,000...But considering I bought my 144000 point CWA contract for under $3 per 1000 points, you and he(she) will have a tough job convincing me to buy from you....However, I will offer you the same challenge Ive made to other Wyndham salesmen....I want to get from where I am, to Platinum. I want to have my total annual cost (maintenance fees, plus PIC fees, plus amortized purchase price(5yr) to be right around $5.50 per 1000 points...Figure out a way to do that and Ill buy


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## rrlongwell (Jan 8, 2012)

nole9911 said:


> CWA arp works great at the resorts and times that are typically hard to get...ie Myrtle Beach in July.  The ten month window seems to work at all other less high demand places and weeks.



Hey! You need to stay around for awhile, I think we have a lot of questions for you.


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## rrlongwell (Jan 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Can you answer the question that no one else will answer...of the 140 units at La Belle Maison and of the 254 units at Avenue Plaza; how many are available to CWA owners in the ARP window for the week  Feb 8 2013 to Feb 15 2013
> 
> A CWA owner I know called today...the first day of the ARP window for that date, and was told, "no availability"...



Do not know about next year, however, I checked Avenue Plaza and the following is available.

02/10/2012 4 Studio    81,000  40,500

Also, I just booked a 1 bedroom Suite for four nights starting 2-6-12, departs 2-10-12 for 26,000 points (this included the VIP discount and upgrade)

If I wanted both I would have Feb 6, 2012 departing February 14, 2012 for 66,000 points counting discounts and upgrades.  At $5.70 per 1,000 that works out to about $376.20 for the two bookings.


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## ronparise (Jan 8, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Do not know about next year, however, I checked Avenue Plaza and the following is available.
> 
> 02/10/2012 4 Studio    81,000  40,500
> 
> ...



Not relevant at all  2/10/2012 is the week before Mardi Gras.. next year Mardi Gras is Feb 12 2013.

My question is:  how much inventory is in the CWA pool vs the CWS pool


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## am1 (Jan 8, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Actually, I am pleased there is a Wyndham person that identified himself as such on the thread.  I wonder if the Wyndham poster would let us know what the actual practice is for multiple contracts, same use year at a Home Resort is.  In other words if one owned a 154,000 thousand contract, a 77,000 contract, and a 266,000 contract what would the maxium points be, the total amount or 266,000 thousand points?
> 
> Also, if someone already had a bunch of VIP eligable points in their account, it could be.



Someone selling will not know the answer.


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## rrlongwell (Jan 14, 2012)

I am at National Harbor now.  Check-in times for a handful of people is just under 1 hour.  This is being caused by their being down to one bellhop and not letting guests use the carts to get luggage to the rooms.  The VIP line is being manned, but will not take VIP guests.  The VIP guests have to wait until thel non-VIPguests are checked in then they are sent to a non-VIP check in line.  Also, going back everyday for a new parking ticket for the garage can get old very fast.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 14, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> I am at National Harbor now.  Check-in times for a handful of people is just under 1 hour.  This is being caused by their being down to one bellhop and not letting guests use the carts to get luggage to the rooms.  The VIP line is being manned, but will not take VIP guests.  The VIP guests have to wait until thel non-VIPguests are checked in then they are sent to a non-VIP check in line.  Also, going back everyday for a new parking ticket for the garage can get old very fast.




Thanks for the heads up. I’ve stayed there a lot in the past and usually go straight to the parking lot and park on my own. Unless something has recently changed it’s a public parking lot that simply charges $11 per day unless you choose to use Wyndam’s parking options that have served no advantage for me. 
Has something changed to where you can only park using tickets from Wyndham if you are self parking?

Thanks,
Ira


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## rrlongwell (Jan 14, 2012)

Explorer7 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I’ve stayed there a lot in the past and usually go straight to the parking lot and park on my own. Unless something has recently changed it’s a public parking lot that simply charges $11 per day unless you choose to use Wyndam’s parking options that have served no advantage for me.
> Has something changed to where you can only park using tickets from Wyndham if you are self parking?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ira



Wyhdham's fee at this point is 10 dollars per day come and go as you want.  The other parking, as I understand it, is you can not come and go as you want without a fee each times.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 14, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Wyhdham's fee at this point is 10 dollars per day come and go as you want.  The other parking, as I understand it, is you can not come and go as you want without a fee each times.



That’s a welcome change, looks like I’ll be using Wyndham’s $10 per day parking. During an owner update in Alexandria last year I was told that Wyndham was planning on taking over the parking this year and would be charging 8 dollars per day but $10 for in and out is pretty good as far as I’m concerned.

Thanks again


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## rrlongwell (Jan 14, 2012)

Explorer7 said:


> ... During an owner update in Alexandria last year I was told that Wyndham was planning on taking over the parking this year and would be charging 8 dollars per day but $10 for in and out is pretty good as far as I’m concerned.



Checked with the staff here.  St. George Garage (across the street where Wyndham Guests park) is now under the Management of Wyndham.  They did not actually buy the garage, according to staff.


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## rrlongwell (Jan 15, 2012)

The morning newspaper for Sundays at National Harbor did not happen.  Maybe one day this Wyndham Managed Resort will consistantly start offer VIP Benifits to the VIP guests.

Update:  Talked with the front desk supervisor.  The VIP Sunday newspapers are being given to CVS and VIP members have to walk down there and pay for them. Interesting, wonder what the business relationship between Wyndham and CVS is.  As I understand it, the Fairshare Trust pays for this VIP right yet at National Harbor, CVS gets the newspapers to sell to the VIP guest.


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## chapjim (Jan 15, 2012)

Interesting to note National Harbor continues to have management problems.  We've stayed there three times -- once a couple of weeks after it opened, once six months later, and last summer.  Each time we have noted incompetence, arrogance, and occasional hostility.

Much of the staff acts like Nat. Harbor is a social program.  Much of the staff acts like they are doing guests a favor by attending to them.

Our experiences with the ubiquitous parking pass lady and with the sales staff at "updates" or "surveys" have been the worst anywhere.  I have walked out (although my wife stays to collect the bribe).

We live twenty minutes from National Harbor and I don't know that we will ever go back.  Too expensive, too hard to do things, too much trouble.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 15, 2012)

chapjim said:


> Interesting to note National Harbor continues to have management problems.  We've stayed there three times -- once a couple of weeks after it opened, once six months later, and last summer.  Each time we have noted incompetence, arrogance, and occasional hostility.
> 
> Much of the staff acts like Nat. Harbor is a social program.  Much of the staff acts like they are doing guests a favor by attending to them.
> 
> ...




We also live about 20 min away which contributes heavily into why we will do several short stays per year. This combined with the ability to grab on short notice some great discounts and upgrades on short notice makes it pretty nice for us.

The proximity and discounts allow us to have nice dinner parties etc with local friends and family while taking advantage of 4br presidential units at bargain prices, especially this time of year. 

The non sales support staff has typically been pretty accommodating to us. 

The member updates have been challenging and sometimes painful. I thought I could skip the parking pass experience altogether if I just self parked and paid the lot directly but I discovered that you have to go to the desk for wrist bands in order to use the pools etc. I don’t know that anyone actually checks for wrist bands, none the less we stop and get them on the way to the room. 
Now that I have learned that Wyndham manages the parking lot and offers a $10 per day rate with in and out privileges that’s a good enough deal for me to go through Wyndham for my parking in the future.

Overall we’ve figured out how to make Nat Harbor work pretty well into our Wyndham experience.

Thanks,
Ira


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## chapjim (Jan 15, 2012)

Explorer7 said:


> We also live about 20 min away which contributes heavily into why we will do several short stays per year. This combined with the ability to grab on short notice some great discounts and upgrades on short notice makes it pretty nice for us.
> 
> The proximity and discounts allow us to have nice dinner parties etc with local friends and family while taking advantage of 4br presidential units at bargain prices, especially this time of year.
> 
> ...



The first two times there we parked in the garage across the street.  Last summer, we parked in a garage attached to and just uphill from the Gaylord facility.  I guess enough people complained.  (Having just paid $26/day at La Belle Maison in New Orleans, Nat Harbor parking doesn't seem so bad!)

We will go back I suppose.  But, there has always been some thing or things happen that sour the stay.  If we do go back, it will be as you say -- short visits, long weekends, events, etc.


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## rrlongwell (Jan 15, 2012)

chapjim said:


> ... We will go back I suppose.  But, there has always been some thing or things happen that sour the stay.  If we do go back, it will be as you say -- short visits, long weekends, events, etc.



May I suggest Old Town Alexandria (I do not own at either location so this is not a sales pitch).  Much better service than National Harbor.


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## chapjim (Jan 15, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> May I suggest Old Town Alexandria (I do not own at either location so this is not a sales pitch).  Much better service than National Harbor.



Yes, we've stayed there as well and I agree, except for availability, most everything is better there than at National Harbor.  Plus, I work in Crystal City, three Metro stops up the line.


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## rrlongwell (Jan 15, 2012)

chapjim said:


> Yes, we've stayed there as well and I agree, except for availability, most everything is better there than at National Harbor.  Plus, I work in Crystal City, three Metro stops up the line.



We are frequently in one or the other.  You are right, a lot of people apparently know this secret.  National Harbor is usally easy to get into on short notice.  Old Town Alexandria is a little harder.  However, if you want to try a 3 Bedroom Presidental with VIP status National Harbor cannot be beat.  Just booked a 3 Bedroom Presidental for 70,000 points for March, 2012


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## Explorer7 (Jan 17, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> We are frequently in one or the other.  You are right, a lot of people apparently know this secret.  National Harbor is usally easy to get into on short notice.  Old Town Alexandria is a little harder.  However, if you want to try a 3 Bedroom Presidental with VIP status National Harbor cannot be beat.  Just booked a 3 Bedroom Presidental for 70,000 points for March, 2012



We just checked out of 2 4br pres units using a sum total of 96K points for 2 nights (48k each). We had a great family dinner on Sunday with lots of family and friends and then just enjoyed the day Monday hanging out with those who stayed over a some who returned to hang out and eat some more.

The only sour note was member services who tried to convince my wife that we would get towed if we don’t pickup parking passes for the parking lot across the street which for all intents and purposes is open to the public to park at $11 per day if you don’t use the resorts $10 per day guest rate.

They also called after 10PM on Monday night trying to get us to an update.

None the less, we had a very memorable time with my DW’s family. This is the second year in a row we’ve done this on the Sunday and Monday tied to the MLK holiday. 

Ira


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## rrlongwell (Jan 17, 2012)

Congratulations on a great deal.


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## Explorer7 (Jan 18, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> Congratulations on a great deal.



Thank you and congratulations to you for the great deals you have been getting and sharing


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