# A huge thanks!!!



## jharris8567 (Nov 26, 2013)

I just wanted to say THANK YOU TUG! Count my partner and I as a lucky couple that found this site in time to rescind our contract at Welk Resort Branson saving us $19,000. 

We haven't given up on timeshare, we just now know they're are much better deals to be had than retail. 

If anyone can give us any advice on where to go who to use I would greatly appreciate it. 

We are looking to do 1 big (7days) trip a year and several (4 or more) shorter trips (3-4 days) locally. We live in Saint Louis and would consider locally within a few hours drive. Two of our fav places would be Lake of the Ozarks or Chicago ($100 round trip 2 person train ticket is awesome) Our week long trip could be anywhere really but would love Mexico, Caribbean, California, or Hawaii. 

Since we like more shorter trips, usually planned no more than a few days/weeks in advance, it doesn't seem like timeshare wouldn't be too beneficial for us.... but i would love some advice!!

Thank you!!!
Josh


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## Rent_Share (Nov 26, 2013)

Welcome and Congratulations 

Read about Wyndham - Rent a get away from a "MEGA RENTER" (not me, my name was picked because I rented for use my first couple of years here)  try out a week - Both should be able to be done for less than what a new owner would pay in maintenance fees, unless it is for a premium date (Week 52, Beach 4th of July etc . . .) 


 IMHO Wyndham (the only Chicago Timeshare) has priced Chicago and New York out of a reasonable point ratio.  

Then you can decide if you need ARP or can look for the cheapest on-going costs lowest maintenance fees - You will find the lowest costs after handing here, it won't be a broker, but you will be knowledgeable enough to not need one, you will most likely buy directly from an owner who can't or won't learn how to use the system after making a developer purchase at pennies on the dollar of a developer sale.

 Timeshares are easy to buy but can be difficult to unload, so rent before you buy


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## FL Guy (Nov 26, 2013)

Welcome to TUG Josh!  

Glad you were able to rescind before it was too late.  

I didn't find TUG until after attending a couple of timeshare presentations.  But thankfully, due mostly to the salesperson's pushiness that I HAD to make a decision right then & there, I declined as I rarely ever make a purchase over a $100 or so without contemplating and researching it extensively.  

After much research and reading on TUG, I cautiously got into ownership through the resale market (actually, through a TUG member from the Marketplace) on a small scale.  The Wyndham points I now own, 166k, will give me and my partner 1 to 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom unit in most locations, depending upon time of year.  

Wyndham is not very conducive to multiple short trips as the number of reservation transactions and housekeeping credits are limited and you end up paying extra for those with shorter trips.  My understanding is that Bluegreen is "friendlier" in that regard.  Others here might be able to suggest others.

My plan is to use my Wyndham points for a big trip every year to two years, and in between I can supplement with either renting points through a TUG member or taking RCI sale vacations.  That way I'm not locked into paying maintenance fees on something I might not be able to use, since we both still work full-time.  As I get closer to retirement, I may decide to pick up more points then......resale, of course.  RCI has frequent sales where you can pick up a week's vacation for $200-$250 for travel within the next few months.  Granted, they are not prime demand time, but typically nice resorts nonetheless, and we generally prefer to travel in more off-season anyway.  The RCI membership included with Wyndham ownership are for weeks only, but there is nothing to preclude reserving a week and only staying a portion of the week.  For $200, you're still staying cheaper than a decent hotel, even if you only stay 3-4 nights.  

Again, welcome to TUG.  Take your time, learn, and decide if timeshare ownership is right for you.

Rodney


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## Rent_Share (Nov 26, 2013)

FL Guy said:


> My plan is to use my Wyndham points for a big trip every year to two years, and in between I can supplement with either renting points through a TUG member



In the olden days you could actually rent points and transfer them to your own account and manage your own reservation(s) - Currently you are renting a reservation from the [mega]renter - You don't have to have a Wyndham ownership to rent a Wyndham reservation



FL Guy said:


> or taking RCI sale vacations. That way I'm not locked into paying maintenance fees on something I might not be able to use, since we both still work full-time.



You have to own a timeshare to rent an RCI vacation - Keep in mind RCI rentals are primarily leftovers in off seasons or last minute cancellations

See Below 



FL Guy said:


> RCI has frequent sales where you can pick up a week's vacation for $200-$250 for travel within the next few months. Granted, they are not prime demand time, but typically nice resorts nonetheless, and we generally prefer to travel in more off-season anyway. The RCI membership included with Wyndham ownership are for weeks only, but there is nothing to preclude reserving a week and only staying a portion of the week. For $200, you're still staying cheaper than a decent hotel, even if you only stay 3-4 nights.



 Great minds AGREE



FL Guy said:


> Take your time, learn, and decide if timeshare ownership is right for you.
> 
> Rodney


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## jharris8567 (Nov 26, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> ...Then you can decide if you need ARP or can look for the cheapest on-going costs lowest maintenance fees



What is ARP?


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## jharris8567 (Nov 26, 2013)

So I think one thing that is confusing me with the point system is the point values and how they are used. 

It seems that the number of points used on the trip is determined by the location, size of room, length of stay, and time of year. 

Is this true?

Also, is point "inflation" a huge deal. 100k points buys you XYZ this year, but in 5 years that now cost 120k points?


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## FL Guy (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> So I think one thing that is confusing me with the point system is the point values and how they are used.
> 
> It seems that the number of points used on the trip is determined by the location, size of room, length of stay, and time of year.
> 
> ...



ARP= Advanced Reservation Priority.  The resort where your ownership is located is where you have this (or multiple resorts through Club Wyndham Access).  You can make reservations 13 months in advance at your home resort, other Wyndham resorts are 10 month ahead.  So if there was a specific week you wanted to have access to at the resort where you owned, this would be important.

You are correct that the number of points used is determined by the location, size of room, length of stay and time of year.  The lower the demand period (off season) for the resort, the less points.  

Point inflation is not that a specific resort's point costs for a reservation will increase.  The point requirements, once set (at least to my understanding) cannot change.  Point inflation is that newer resorts built costs more points to make a reservation there.  Case in point are the newest resorts in Chicago & NY where the points to stay there are, in my opinion, cost prohibitive.  Over time, as new resorts are built, it will cost more points to stay in those newer properties than in the older resorts.


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## pedro47 (Nov 26, 2013)

Welcome, now can you share the information about the TUG community and this web site.


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## FL Guy (Nov 26, 2013)

You should be able to access and review the various Wyndham resorts point requirements in their directory here: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/2013657298WMD/index.php#/0


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## Rent_Share (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> What is ARP?



Part of your learning process :whoopie: I am not a Wyndham Vacation Ownership Owner (WVO), I own Worldmark another product managed by Wyndham, which is West Coast focused. PLEASE EDIT MY ERRORS - 

By my understanding, with WVO you have an underlying deed to a specific property/points (1) which accomplishes two things:



Establishes your maintenance fees per point
Gives you a 90 day Priority for reserving time at that specific property (13 -10 months+1 Day prior to check)  = ARP
All points owners have an equal opportunity at 10 months for reservations.

(1) Oversimplified to explain ARP, there are exceptions based on other ownerships types 1. Non Converted Weeks (to Points) There reservations are limited to the actual resort for the season indicated in their original deed, typically these will be referred to as a "Fairfield Week"

2. Converted Weeks - Originally deeded as the membership above, the ARP only applies to their original season, but delineated in points so, the points can be used at any resort at the 10 month mark.

3. CWA Weeks - Some Defaulted weeks are placed in a trust and sold as strictly "Club Wyndham Access" points, maintenance fees are averaged for the entire portfolio, and they are advertised as having ARP at all 50+ resorts that have weeks in the trust. The problem is the ARP only applies to weeks owned by the trust - So if the trust only has 3 weeks at a resort, ARP only applies to those 3 weeks
​Every system has similar convoluted exceptions based on the evolution of the products from weeks based to point based and partial conversions of various owners.

Your venture through TUG unfortunately cannot be a linear one, just based on the asked and answered topic based format. Many of us recommend a time line of hanging around, observing and asking - trying to research backwards can be tedious and has a tendency to be repetitious, moving forward, you gain a sense of what/who to ignore.

However you never know when a thread will turn 540 degrees


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## csxjohn (Nov 26, 2013)

Rent_Share said:


> Welcome and Congratulations
> 
> ..- Rent a get away from a "MEGA RENTER" ...  try out a week - Both should be able to be done for less than what a new owner would pay in maintenance fees, unless it is for a premium date (Week 52, Beach 4th of July etc . . .)
> 
> ...



It's even possible to rent cheaply on these kinds of dates.  I rented from an ad in the TUG classifieds for next July 5th thru 12Th on the beach on Edisto Island.

Check the Wyndham points rentals by doing a search in the classifieds here on TUG.  Some of the points are being rented very cheaply.

http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplac...roomsMin=&BathroomsMax=&SleepsMin=&SleepsMax=

I rented from the tugger with the last ad on that page. $3/1,000 points plus $130.  The earlier you book the better choices you will have.


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## jharris8567 (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks @FL Guy --- good info!

So does Wyndham have like a discount on hotel stays (outside of TS/points/etc), since Chicago is a place we frequent & love & would go back all the time if the cost of hotels wasn't so expensive. 

If we own points in Wyndham wouldn't that be an option for for our short trips? Then use our points for Mexico or longer trips etc? 

Can you split points up with Wyndham for shorter trips? 

Can someone give me and example of how many points a 1br/eff studio (sleeps 4) 
For 4th of July Weekend (7/3 - 7/6) in Wyndham Grand Chicago, Wyndham Lake of Ozarks, Wyndham Palm Aire.  

Sorry for the 1000 questions this whole idea is very new, exciting, and scary.... 

Thanks again for the help...

EDIT: i'm guessing u could replace "Wyndham" with any number of companies and get the same answers? Or maybe not?


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## Rent_Share (Nov 26, 2013)

So, you are going to get your education 1 post at a time :whoopie:

Spend some time reading through the posts in this section

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128302





jharris8567 said:


> Thanks @FL Guy --- good info!
> 
> So does Wyndham have like a discount on hotel stays (outside of TS/points/etc), since Chicago is a place we frequent & love & would go back all the time if the cost of hotels wasn't so expensive.



Technically yes, but in reality no better than any other promotion on their hotel site for their loyalty program members - You will do better through a travel aggregator like Price Line, Kayak, Expedia etc . . . 



jharris8567 said:


> If we own points in Wyndham wouldn't that be an option for for our short trips? Then use our points for Mexico or longer trips etc?
> 
> Can you split points up with Wyndham for shorter trips?



Yes they can be split - What the other posted was suggesting was to use your owned points for 7 day stays and rent a reservation for shorter stays, since a small ownership is charged some fees that are waived for larger point holders, which can make a rented shorter stay cheaper than a 2nd short stay using owned points from a small membership.



jharris8567 said:


> Can someone give me and example of how many points a 1br/eff studio (sleeps 4)
> For 4th of July Weekend (7/3 - 7/6) in Wyndham Grand Chicago, Wyndham Lake of Ozarks, Wyndham Palm Aire.



Homework Assignment

You can find that out yourself, the resorts are grouped by state

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wynd...D/index.php#/0 

{Previously Provided by FLGuy}

Be sure to read the program rules too . . . 

There will be a POP quiz on your next visit


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## FL Guy (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> Thanks @FL Guy --- good info!
> 
> So does Wyndham have like a discount on hotel stays (outside of TS/points/etc), since Chicago is a place we frequent & love & would go back all the time if the cost of hotels wasn't so expensive.
> 
> ...



According to the owner website, Club Wyndham owners get "....up to 20% off the Best Available Rate at participating locations....."  This would be for hotels in the Wyndham Hotel Group.  I've never utilized it, so no idea as to the availability of the discounts.  

The Wyndham points can be split up for shorter stays, but as I stated in a previous post, the problem comes with Reservation Transaction fees and Housekeeping Credits fees.  You get 1 Reservation Transaction per calendar year for every 77,000 points you own.  Once you surpass that, they charge $30 to make an online reservation.  For Housekeeping Credits, you get 1 credit for every 1,000 points you own.  When you reserve a 1 bedroom unit for *UP TO* 7 days, you are charged 63 credits.  So if you only reserve for 3 days, you still are charged 63 credits (they consider it costs them the same to clean & reset the unit after 1 day use or 1 week).  In booking short stays, you will run out of Housekeeping Credits before you run out of points for the stay and would have to buy additional Housekeeping Credits.  Housekeeping Credits cost $2.25 each, so if you were out of them and had to pay for them for a 1 bedroom for a stay, it would cost $141.75 to buy them.  

I posted a link to the Wyndham Directory in post #9.  You can look up the various resorts and point charts in that.  

You should ask questions and read a lot prior to deciding to buy, or not.  As previously posted, timeshares are easy to buy, but sometimes not so easy to get rid of.  You can find countless postings of people on TUG who were/are stuck with a worthless timeshare and continuously paying maintenance fees on something they no longer want and cannot use.  Personally, a primary criteria for me deciding where to buy was after watching several eBay ads and seeing what sold for a few bucks and what went un-sold.  I wanted to buy something I thought I would be able to get rid of, at the point I decided I didn't want to own it any longer.


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## FL Guy (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> EDIT: i'm guessing u could replace "Wyndham" with any number of companies and get the same answers? Or maybe not?



Definitely NOT!!!  Every company is unique and has their own set of rules and quirks.


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## jharris8567 (Nov 26, 2013)

fan-freaken-tastic 

so the consensus would be to "rent" out points for our shorter 2-4 day stays... 

I'm not sure I understand how that would work exactly.... maybe it is in that link. 

u guys r awesome!


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## FL Guy (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> fan-freaken-tastic
> 
> so the consensus would be to "rent" out points for our shorter 2-4 day stays...
> 
> ...



There are "stickys" at the top of the "Buying, Selling, Renting" forum that discuss renting.  Ultimately, renting is a transaction between you and the renter and whatever terms the two of you agree upon.  There are numerous ads in the Marketplace section of TUG for owners interested in renting, both fixed weeks and point system renters.  There is also a "Last Minute Rentals" forum for more last-minute rentals at reduced prices on fixed/reserved weeks.  (Renting of points postings are not permitted in that bargain forum.)


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## jharris8567 (Nov 26, 2013)

wow that link to wyndham points is amazing... 

any idea where i can find other links like this?

EDIT... 

Other as in other companies points listings. 

the Chicago resort w/ Wyndham is really expensive (130k pts for 3 day prime weekend).... i would need like a 500k + points  hmmm...


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## Rent_Share (Nov 26, 2013)

Sub-Forums : Timeshare Resort Systems


http://tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=53


Advice Articles

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/tug_timeshare_advice.shtml

Lastly All Ads

http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/


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## jharris8567 (Nov 26, 2013)

awesome thansk Rent_Share... 

just as i think i'm starting to understand i start seeing stuff about RCI and II, which confuse me a bit. 

My main question is those are just "out of network" place you can go if you exchange (for a fee) your points to RCI or II correct? most TS comapines work with one or both? 

Thanks again!


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## jharris8567 (Nov 26, 2013)

FL Guy said:


> Renting of points postings are not permitted in that bargain forum.



so u can't rent points? or this site just doesn't allow it?


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## Rent_Share (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> so u can't rent points? or this site just doesn't allow it?



Wyndham does NOT allow it ANYMORE - But rental prices are quoted in points, and Wyndham's point system is the multiple


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## FL Guy (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> so u can't rent points? or this site just doesn't allow it?



You can rent points.....from Marketplace ads:  http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/

Specifically, points ads are here:  http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/ClassifiedSearchResultsDetails.aspx?ResortName=&ResortArea=&ResortGroup=&ForSale=False&ForRent=True&ForExchange=False&AdTypeFixed=False&AdTypeFloating=False&AdTypeOther=False&AdTypePoints=True&PointsMin=&PointsMax=&PointsProgram=&WeekYearAvailable=&StartDayFri=True&StartDaySat=True&StartDaySun=True&StartDayFriSatSun=True&StartDayNA=True&PriceMin=&PriceMax=&SeasonRed=True&SeasonWhite=True&SeasonBlue=True&SeasonOther=True&SeasonNA=True&BedroomsHotel=True&BedroomsStudio=True&BedroomsOne=True&BedroomsTwo=True&BedroomsThree=True&BedroomsFour=True&BedroomsOneLockout=True&BedroomsTwoLockout=True&BedroomsThreeLockout=True&BedroomsFourLockout=True&BedroomsFourPlus=True&BedroomsNA=True&BathroomsMin=&BathroomsMax=&SleepsMin=&SleepsMax=

Points for rent just can't be posted in the "Last Minute" bargain rentals forum on TUG:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=16


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## FL Guy (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> awesome thansk Rent_Share...
> 
> just as i think i'm starting to understand i start seeing stuff about RCI and II, which confuse me a bit.
> 
> ...



Most timeshare companies only work with either RCI or II.  I believe it is resort-specific as to which exchange company.  

I'm far from an expert on RCI, but my understanding is the exchange companies are essentially for timeshare weeks that someone else didn't want, couldn't use, or wanted to trade in exchange for somewhere someone else deposited into the exchange company.  An exchange company is also used as a last-chance to save points or weeks that would otherwise be expiring.  (I'm getting ready to deposit my 2013 expiring Wyndham points into RCI because I can't use them by year end.  By depositing them into RCI, I can book something I see in RCI I want (and my points will cover) up to two years after they would have otherwise expired in Wyndham.)


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## Rent_Share (Nov 26, 2013)

jharris8567 said:


> awesome thansk Rent_Share...
> 
> just as i think i'm starting to understand i start seeing stuff about RCI and II, which confuse me a bit.
> 
> ...



Exchanges are a complete separate subject, 

The prior recommendation for Wyndham is based on the fact that it is the largest "mini system" and they have substantial options close to where you live, that can be accessed without requiring a flight. 
A mini system timeshare ownership delineated in points that can be used at multiple resorts, the one you rescinded "Welk" is a micro system trying to imitate the "mini systems". The costs of exchanging within a mini system are built into your ongoing maintenance fees.
​Prior to the chains entering into the timeshare market a company named Cendant for RCI (Now Owned by the same Corporate parent as Wyndham) to facilitate exchanges of time share weeks between owners. With Wyndham the annual cost of the RCI membership is included with your maintenance fees, there are similar arrangements for the other Branded systems, some use an alternative called Interval International

In addition to an annual membership fee ~ $90 (if not included with your ownership - primarily branded are included) there is an exchange fee which will range $135 - $175 for exchanging, once you have exchanged for all intents and purposes your cancellations rights are severely limited.

Many Independents are dual affiliated, the majority of the chains are single exchange company associated.

I honestly cannot think of any domestic destination you cannot get to using Wyndham, if you want to go to Europe, Diamond Resorts {Internal Exchanges to Europe will require a developer purchase that is not saleable in the resale market} and Marriott have better options there


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## Rent_Share (Nov 26, 2013)

FL Guy said:


> You can rent points.....from Marketplace ads: http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/
> 
> Specifically, points ads are here: http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplac...roomsMin=&BathroomsMax=&SleepsMin=&SleepsMax=
> 
> Points for rent just can't be posted in the "Last Minute" bargain rentals forum on TUG: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=16




Either way you are NOW renting a reservation as a guest of the rentor, 

In the old days Prior to March 2009 {and currently with Worldmark} you rented the points, they were transferred to your account and you made the reservation yourself.


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## csxjohn (Nov 26, 2013)

FL Guy said:


> Most timeshare companies only work with either RCI or II.  I believe it is resort-specific as to which exchange company.
> 
> I'm far from an expert on RCI, but my understanding is the exchange companies are essentially for timeshare weeks that someone else didn't want, couldn't use, or wanted to trade in exchange for somewhere someone else deposited into the exchange company.  An exchange company is also used as a last-chance to save points or weeks that would otherwise be expiring.  (I'm getting ready to deposit my 2013 expiring Wyndham points into RCI because I can't use them by year end.  By depositing them into RCI, I can book something I see in RCI I want (and my points will cover) up to two years after they would have otherwise expired in Wyndham.)



I'm not sure this is accurate, it is a little misleading.

Many resorts that I know of that are affiliated with RCI or II or both of them also work with the independent companies such as Dial an Exchange, VRI and others.

The resort I own is affiliated with both II and RCI and they use DAE.  

Just like the different developer points systems, the exchange companies are all different with different rules and it will take some time to get familiar with  them.


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## jharris8567 (Dec 4, 2013)

Ok, 

So I have been doing some HW and it looks like the only place that really has points avaliable for hotel stays is HGVC. Now i'm not sure if I have all the details correct, but that is what I need help with. 

If I understand correctly I can buy HGVC points, lets say 5000 (which appears I can buy for a few thousand $ with a HOA and other fees for $1000/yr). I can then convert those points to hhonors points. From what I can tell the 2013 conversion was 20:1. So if i conver all of my 5000 points, they would become 100,000 HH points. Here is the part I don't understand....

My 5000 HGVC points can buy 2 weeks at resort in Cancun. But if I convert them to 100k HH points (according to the hhonors.com site) a 3 night stay (July 3 thru July 6) in Chicago would cost 120,000 points. So I can stay 2 weeks in Cancun, but not 3 nights in a DoubleTree in DT Chicago? 

It doesn't add up! What am I missing? Are there different HHonors Point tables for timeshare members???

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks


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## Rent_Share (Dec 4, 2013)

Have you searched the Hilton Sub Forum about Points


http://tugbbs.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6034893


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## jharris8567 (Dec 4, 2013)

i can't find much of anything... but i'll post there... 

thanks!


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## Rent_Share (Dec 4, 2013)

Re-read the chain - Where did the Timeshare Points for Hotel Stays come into the equation ?

 In most cases usage of timeshare points for anything besides timeshare lodging (Hotels, Airfare. Cruises) is not cost effective, when you consider what you pay each year for the maintenance fees for those points.

When I had a million Hilton Honors (hotel) points I was always frustrated that I couldn't use them with their timeshare products in Hawaii


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## talkamotta (Dec 6, 2013)

You could try timeshare for rent on this site.  Some of the prices are  half what mfs would be..so it would work for less than week travels.  

You could request the other site.  Timeshare wanted. I for one, plan my vacations out a year in advance and more timeshares than I can use.  

Also try SFX-resorts for thier specials.  Good places at a good price if you can use them.


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