# Cancellation - Misrepresentation



## echad (Sep 15, 2011)

The last retail timeshare we bought 6 months ago has not gone well. It has taken us these months to experience all the various misrepresentations. We wish we had been familiar with TUG before purchasing. For those who have pursued timeshare misrepresentation through legal channels, what is your experience that would help my wife and I? What constitutes misrepresentation? What kind of evidence is acceptable? What degree of due diligence is required on the part of my wife and myself? What is the typical cost? How long is the typical process? My wife and I are elderly; is this a factor legally? Do you have a legal professional you have used and would recommend? What is a reputable company that is experienced in timeshare misrepresentation?

Thank you very much for your help.


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## Karen G (Sep 15, 2011)

It would be helpful to know more details in order to answer your questions. What and where did you buy? What specifically do you feel was fraudulent?


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## Passepartout (Sep 15, 2011)

Your post is a little unclear. Please describe 'misrepresentation.' What is your goal? Are you trying to 'get out' of the purchase? Are you saying there was fraud? Did you read your contract within the legal rescission (cooling off) period, find that the terms differed between the contract and what you were told, and do nothing? That's about normal. Salespeople lie, and the only thing that matters is what's written in the contract.

Every day, we advise people (a) to buy timeshares resale for pennies on the dollar. (b) to NEVER buy from a developer's sales team. (c) to rescind whenever they find us shortly after they have made an impulsive timeshare purchase. And (d) unfortunately, after the rescission period has ended, that they are very likely owners of their timeshare and their best option is to learn how to use what they have bought.

From what I understand of your post, it seems to me than you fall into the (d) category. Too much time has passed (6 months) since you signed the contract to be eligible to rescind. You are adults who went into this with your eyes open.

Don't feel too badly. Many- if not most- members of TUG got here exactly the same way. So study your contract so that you know exactly what you own- regardless of what a salesman told you. Then read the stickies at the top of the 'Newbies' forum. This way you'll understand what to do if you own a 'fixed week', 'floating week', some sort of points, which season your ownership entitles you to book, how far in advance of use you can- or should reserve your week. You should find out if you are or should join an exchange company- only necessary if you want to go to different resorts than the one where you bought.

Anyway, I've said far too much, and gone waaay beyond the questions you asked. I do that sometimes.

You may want to post more of the details if you are comfortable doing so.

Best wishes, and Welcome to TUG.

Jim Ricks


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## Margariet (Sep 15, 2011)

echad said:


> The last retail timeshare we bought 6 months ago has not gone well. It has taken us these months to experience all the various misrepresentations. We wish we had been familiar with TUG before purchasing. For those who have pursued timeshare misrepresentation through legal channels, what is your experience that would help my wife and I? What constitutes misrepresentation? What kind of evidence is acceptable? What degree of due diligence is required on the part of my wife and myself? What is the typical cost? How long is the typical process? My wife and I are elderly; is this a factor legally? Do you have a legal professional you have used and would recommend? What is a reputable company that is experienced in timeshare misrepresentation?
> 
> Thank you very much for your help.



With 'misrepresentation' do you mean you were mislead? I would not look for a 'reputable company that is experienced in TS misrepresentation'. That would be fight fire with gasoline and losing more money. The best thing you can do IMHO is talk to the company or person who sold you the TS. Settle it and see what comes out of it. But do tell the members over here more about your experience.


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## presley (Sep 15, 2011)

I would imagine anything written that can prove your point would be useful.  Did you sign a contract and then the terms changed?  Do you have copies of emails. etc. that show what you were buying isn't what you ended up getting?

Tell us more about what type of evidence that you have.  Black and white evidence will be very helpful.


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## echad (Sep 15, 2011)

Thank you all for sharing your insight and also so quickly. Am I am hearing that the salesperson can pretty much embellish what your timeshare can do for you, in other words not give you all the information you need to make a sound decision and lie to you, and if it is not in writing, you have no recourse for cancellation, legal or otherwise, open to you? We can only expect what our contract states and no more.


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## Karen G (Sep 15, 2011)

echad said:


> if it is not in writing, you have no recourse for cancellation, legal or otherwise, open to you? We can only expect what our contract states and no more.


 That's pretty much how it is.


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## Margariet (Sep 15, 2011)

echad said:


> Thank you all for sharing your insight and also so quickly. Am I am hearing that the salesperson can pretty much embellish what your timeshare can do for you, in other words not give you all the information you need to make a sound decision and lie to you, and if it is not in writing, you have no recourse for cancellation, legal or otherwise, open to you? We can only expect what our contract states and no more.



Yes, more or less but there is always some 'space' if you really can make your case clear and really can show that you were mislead, and if you are persistent enough. I mean you can contact the company and just explain your issues. Just tell them clearly what you were promised and what you don't get or what the lies were. And have in mind what you want from the company. Try to settle with them but be patient. It will take time, you might need to contact them 3 or 4 times but persist. It might lead to something if they are willing. It might be useful if you have some proof of misleading by the sales person. Good luck.


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## presley (Sep 15, 2011)

echad said:


> Thank you all for sharing your insight and also so quickly. Am I am hearing that the salesperson can pretty much embellish what your timeshare can do for you, in other words not give you all the information you need to make a sound decision and lie to you, and if it is not in writing, you have no recourse for cancellation, legal or otherwise, open to you? We can only expect what our contract states and no more.



Yes.  Very sorry that salesmen are allowed to lie and it seems like they do 99% of the time.


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## Passepartout (Sep 15, 2011)

echad said:


> if it is not in writing, you have no recourse for cancellation, legal or otherwise, open to you? We can only expect what our contract states and no more.



You are given something between 5-and 7- or more days- never less- to either get your contract modified to reflect whatever the salesperson promises, or rescind. That cancels the contract and gives you all your money back. It's the law. And it's spelled out in your contract. Maybe not in the boldest typeface, but you can bet it's in there.

Beyond that legally outlined time frame, the purchase is valid. Fraud becomes very difficult to prove after that.

About the only recourse available to an owner is to sell (not much market for timeshares these days) or give them away. Sometimes the family of elderly owners want the timeshare. Sometimes not. 

I see that you are TUG members. If you want to list your timeshare for rent or sale, your membership allows you to post in the TUG marketplace at no additional cost. Just follow the basic format you'll see there. For information on what price to ask, sign in to eBay, enter the description of your timeshare in the search window, hit enter. Down the left side, you'll see- 'Completed Auctions'. That will show you what similar timeshares to yours have sold for. Warning. It isn't pretty.

Of course the best thing to do is USE the timeshare. You saw value in the purchase when you bought it. Those reasons didn't change.

Again, We wish you well.

Jim


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 15, 2011)

echad said:


> Thank you all for sharing your insight and also so quickly. Am I am hearing that the salesperson can pretty much embellish what your timeshare can do for you, in other words not give you all the information you need to make a sound decision and lie to you, and if it is not in writing, you have no recourse for cancellation, legal or otherwise, open to you? We can only expect what our contract states and no more.


Almost all timeshare purchase documents incorporate provisions saying that the written documents comprise the entire agreement, that anything that was stated orally during the presentation is not binding and is not part of the agreement, and that the purchaser is not relying on any oral representations in making your decision to purchase.  The language might be in the purchase agreement itself, or in another piece of paper executed during the sales process.  In any case, it will always be included in a document signed by the purchaser.  

If you examine your paperwork closely you will almost surely find language to that effect somewhere.  And since this will be in a document that you signed, it will be much more difficult for you to assert misrepresentation.


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## DeniseM (Sep 15, 2011)

echad - Now that you have posted that you want out of this timeshare, you are going to be contacted by a lot of "recovery companies," that will promise to get your money back.

Here is the rule of thumb - *if there is an upfront fee - it's a scam.*

Can you please post exactly what you bought?  I bet we can help you get more out of your timeshare.


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## ronparise (Sep 15, 2011)

Heres a true story

My friend...the one that introduced me to Wyndham bought a small "discovery package" to start...on her next visit, and this one was easy for the salesperson, she upgraded to a regular purchase. On her third visit she voiced some concern about the high interest rate on her mortgage. This is where the salesman sprung into action....He was going to do what ever was necessary to reduce that interest rate.

An hour or so later she had traded in her one contract for another one with a better interest rate and they threw in some bonus points besides....She was happy until the bills started to arrive. Bills from RCi, bills for a mortgage payment and maintenance fees about 3 times what she expected...Instead of being cut in half, he monthly payment went up by 50%

She was convinced that some mistake had been made. Perhaps she was being billed for the old contract and the new contract by mistake

Turns out that what she signed was a contract to purchase another 300000 points and and they got the down payment on this with a new RCI credit card

The overall interest rate was less than the initial contract but the amount owed was more. . She got exactly what was on the papers she signed. 

I dont know that this is misrepresentation but she pitched a bitch. and they rolled back to the first contract


So it can be done, and it has been done

Good luck


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## Margariet (Sep 16, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Heres a true story
> 
> My friend...the one that introduced me to Wyndham bought a small "discovery package" to start...on her next visit, and this one was easy for the salesperson, she upgraded to a regular purchase. On her third visit she voiced some concern about the high interest rate on her mortgage. This is where the salesman sprung into action....He was going to do what ever was necessary to reduce that interest rate.
> 
> ...



Yes, it definitely can be done, especially with existing clients. Even though there are contracts they might be willing to negotiate changes or roll things back.


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## cbm32 (Sep 16, 2011)

I first 800,000+ Wyndham points were resale contracts.  

I have twice since then purchased points from the developer based on bald faced lies.  In both cases it was after the rescission period when I found out that the lies I had based the purchases on were in fact lies. Both times I was able to get the contracts cancelled, all monies refunded, and my accounts restored to their original parameters.

I had nothing in writing to prove what I ad been told but I did write detailed emails to Wyndham outlining the situation and that was sufficient to get the job done

IF I ever buy another contract from Wyndham, I will do so only after getting whatever is offered that leads me to do so in writing and/or on tape.  Should this happen and I have to again take steps to have a contract rescinded, I will not settle for being made whole as before but will insist on punitive damages and sue if need be.

I will also tell the sales person AND his/her supervisor of this plan prior to signing and give them every opportunity to admit their lies and withdraw the contract prior to my signing.

Of course if this happens I will make sure that Wyndham knows that it happened and what lies were told.


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## Patri (Sep 18, 2011)

Get it in writing. A tape may not be admissible in court.


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## Karen G (Sep 18, 2011)

cbm32 said:


> I have twice since then purchased points from the developer based on bald faced lies. . . .
> IF I ever buy another contract from Wyndham, I will do so only after getting whatever is offered that leads me to do so in writing and/or on tape.


Why on earth would you even contemplate a third purchase from the developer after being lied to twice before?  That reminds me of the saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I don't know of a saying for fool me three times.


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## BocaBum99 (Sep 18, 2011)

echad said:


> The last retail timeshare we bought 6 months ago has not gone well. It has taken us these months to experience all the various misrepresentations. We wish we had been familiar with TUG before purchasing. For those who have pursued timeshare misrepresentation through legal channels, what is your experience that would help my wife and I? What constitutes misrepresentation? What kind of evidence is acceptable? What degree of due diligence is required on the part of my wife and myself? What is the typical cost? How long is the typical process? My wife and I are elderly; is this a factor legally? Do you have a legal professional you have used and would recommend? What is a reputable company that is experienced in timeshare misrepresentation?
> 
> Thank you very much for your help.



You are pretty much out of luck.  It's yours now.  Learn from TUG how best to use your points and have a great time on vacation.

Whatever you do, DO NOT fall for the next scan which is someone who tells you for an upfront fee that they can get you out of your contract.  Once the industry learns that you are a sucker, they will get you again and again.  Prove to them you are not by never paying an upfront fee to anyone for information, advice or services in timesharing.


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## cbm32 (Sep 18, 2011)

Karen G said:


> Why on earth would you even contemplate a third purchase from the developer after being lied to twice before?  That reminds me of the saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I don't know of a saying for fool me three times.




I may not buy a third time, but if I see something that I think makes sense for me I might.  I see nothing wrong with that as long as they come through with what they promise and if I were to do it I would be sure I was in a position to force them to follow through or pay punitive damages.

Who are you to tell me what I should consider doing or how I should spend my money???


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## Karen G (Sep 18, 2011)

cbm32 said:


> I may not buy a third time, but if I see something that I think makes sense for me I might.  I see nothing wrong with that as long as they come through with what they promise and if I were to do it I would be sure I was in a position to force them to follow through or pay punitive damages.
> 
> Who are you to tell me what I should consider doing or how I should spend my money???


You're absolutely right! Please accept my apologies. Sorry about that.


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## cbm32 (Sep 18, 2011)

Karen G said:


> You're absolutely right! Please accept my apologies. Sorry about that.



Accepted.  Not a problem and I should probably have reacted differently.  But I see posters in here making assumptions a lot and trying to make decisions for other people based on their own financial situation or timeshare goals.  I think we all need to be careful in that regard.  Sharing knowledge is helpful.  Making assumptions and being rigid is not.


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## DeniseM (Sep 18, 2011)

cbm32 said:


> I may not buy a third time, but if I see something that I think makes sense for me I might.  I see nothing wrong with that as long as they come through with what they promise and if I were to do it I would be sure I was in a position to force them to follow through or pay punitive damages.
> 
> Who are you to tell me what I should consider doing or how I should spend my money???



cbm32 - We love to debate the ins and outs of buying and selling.  It's not personal.  But if you post your opinion, you have to accept that fact that people may respond, and they may not agree with you. 

Many people feel that buying from the developer is a poor value, and you are going to see that advice posted often.  Again - it's nothing personal.  

If you honestly don't want people to respond, the only way to avoid it is not to post about your past or future purchases.  As long as people don't violate the posting rules, they absolutely can offer a critique of any given purchase.  That's what we do here.


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## Scott&Laura (Sep 19, 2011)

I'm not an attorney but as I understand your DEAL and the contract.

There were two acts. 

1) The salesperson did and said whatever they could to entice you to look at the deal.

2) You were presented the True Deal defined by the 4 corners of the White Paper document, and asked to review --i.e.read carefully the document and if you accepted the True deal---sign it.

Your deal is what you accepted. Fraud is hard to prove--you have to know explicitly what "EXACTLY" was Fraud and Exactly what that was fraud

Your True deal is the White four cornered Document

It appears you are dismayed over being misled into reading the document. However like most people when they read contracts they cloud them with preconceived thoughts and ideas, albeit planted by others. The Company's deal with you is the document.

The Document has to contain Fraud otherwise its a He said She said and salespeople lie, to benefit themselves, not the company.


Maybe Jarta will weigh in here. He is very knowledgeable about these things.


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## GTStone (Sep 19, 2011)

*Misrepresentation*

You still never provided any details of the misrepresentation.  Its hard to reply with any truly helpful information.

As for the person who had a problem with the interest rate:  You can get your own financing.  Most timeshare contracts contain a loan buyout clause that allows you to pay off the deal at anytime with no additional fee.  You should never accept their financing.  If your credit is so bad you can't get your own loan, don't buy.  Of course, cash is the cheapest way to go !

It is likely if you had walked out of the meeting with the intent to think it over, and you told them to call you back in two weeks, you could do your research, and might even get a better offer.


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## theo (Sep 21, 2011)

*Well said and exactly correct...*



Scott&Laura said:


> You were presented the True Deal defined by the 4 corners of the White Paper document, and asked to review --i.e.read carefully the document and if you accepted the True deal---sign it.
> 
> Your deal is what you accepted.....Your True deal is the White four cornered Document
> 
> Maybe Jarta will weigh in here. He is very knowledgeable about these things.



Whoever Jarta may be, he / she could not possibly express the facts and the truth any better than you have already done as quoted above.

A sales weasel's verbal babble, whatever it may have been, was just completely meaningless noise floating around in the air of the sales venue. The content of the written contract signed (...even if never actually read) by the buyer is all that really matters in the final analysis.

A contract rescission period (a.k.a. "cooling off") period for developer-direct timeshare sales is provided by all state's laws and varies from 3 -15 days (with most states being around 5-7 days). If the buyer didn't read and / or understand the contract before signing it, then still didn't read or undertand the content in the "cooling off" days thereafter, provided by law (...which included specific, written  cancellation instructions), it's certainly a *very* steep (and likely insurmountable) uphill climb to later attempt to make a case for "fraud".


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## cbm32 (Sep 21, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> cbm32 - We love to debate the ins and outs of buying and selling.  It's not personal.  But if you post your opinion, you have to accept that fact that people may respond, and they may not agree with you.
> Many people feel that buying from the developer is a poor value, and you are going to see that advice posted often.  Again - it's nothing personal.
> If you honestly don't want people to respond, the only way to avoid it is not to post about your past or future purchases.  As long as people don't violate the posting rules, they absolutely can offer a critique of any given purchase.  That's what we do here.





I did not express an opinion. I stated the facts of what I have done and what I plan on doing in the future.  Those are not opinions.  The way the response was worded made it personal.  Implying pretty clearly that I must be an idiot.  You cant when using this form of communication but I did not get emotional or angry....but I did want to ask the question I asked.

I agree with the view that purchasing from the developer is nearly always a poor value.  However, IF I am offered something that is NOT a poor value for ME why would I not consider it?  What is poor value for other people might be a great value for ME depending on what I want to accomplish.  The next problem is making sure that what I was offered is what I get and I said in the post how I plan on doing that.  I will then get what I was offered or get compensatory damages awarded.

Of course people are free to respond.  But if they respond to ME in a fashion that I feel is inappropriate I will call them on it.  That, I believe, is my right as long as I do so in an appropriate fashion.  I believe I did.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Sep 21, 2011)

theo said:


> A contract rescission period (a.k.a. "cooling off") period for developer-direct timeshare sales is provided by all state's laws and varies from 3 -15 days (with most states being around 5-7 days). If the buyer didn't read and / or understand the contract before signing it, then still didn't read or undertand the content in the "cooling off" days thereafter, provided by law (...which included specific, written  cancellation instructions), it's certainly a *very* steep (and likely insurmountable) uphill climb to later attempt to make a case for "fraud".



At our first sales presentation, in which we bought at Marriott's Kauai Beach Villas, we received the purchase documents while sitting at the sales person desk. I lined them up in front of me, and made sure I understood what each document was for.  Then I proceeded to start reading each and every one of them.  The sales person started getting anxious - because by now we had been with him for 2-1/2 hours and he needed to get back on the sales floor so he could meet his quota - and started pressuring me to go ahead and sign. 

I gave him a very cold look and made it extremely clear that I wasn't signing off on documents that I hadn't read.  When he realized he was going to lose the sale if he pressed me, he then pointed out the rescission provisions and suggested that perhaps I might be more comfortable reviewing the documents in my room or around the pool while I confirmed the contract details.

That seemed reasonable to me, and I did so.  A couple of days later, while we were still in Kauai, I discovered the resale market.  The rest, as they say, is history.


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## theo (Sep 22, 2011)

*A minor correction...*



Passepartout said:


> You are given something between 5-and 7- or more days- never less- to either get your contract modified to reflect whatever the salesperson promises, or rescind.



Actually, the contract rescission period is only *3* days in several (i.e., in at least three) states. 
One such state is Massachusetts; I can't recall the several others right off the top of my head... 

Rescission period is 15 days in Alaska (but are there any timeshare facilities there in the first place?)


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