# Low-balling Guests on Last Minute rentals



## sjuhawk_jd (May 23, 2011)

Every time I post a last minute rental, I hear from the same couple of individuals (they are TUG guests and not paid members, do not have any posts, and they make low-ball offers on already reduced $100 per night rates for 5 star resorts that I advertise). They also ask all types of questions about rentals that a regular TUG members usually knows (i.e., an owner does not have to go to the resort to let a guest check in). 

Have others experienced the same


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## vacationhopeful (May 24, 2011)

I don't have 5 star rentals which I post, but I do get low-ball rentals. And from my other rentals, I get low-ball offers also.

Some are looking to "re-rent" your unit to others via "Craig's List" or another TS rental site. I had that happen. 

In YOUR OP, ask for the PM reply to include a phone number. Most PMs do anyway due to the short timeframe of LMRs.  I send back a PM stating that the offer is too low. 

It seems to be the nature of the ecomony, where some feel $100 for the week is a great offer.


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## ronparise (May 24, 2011)

I dont think its the economy. 

These are folks that no matter what the price, dont consider it a good deal unless the other party is hurt

How about this one on the rentals wanted forum

_"I figure at this point if you guys haven't rented your locations, your either about to give up and take a loss or stay there yourself...."_

He wants it for nothing

I watch the rentals wanted section to see if I might be able to help someone with a last minute weekend with some of my uncommitted wyndham points...and make a few bucks at the same time.  Im not in a use it or lose it position. If I was, Id post it for free 

I dont like to compromise on my price, not because Im unwilling to take less, but rather because the folks that are looking for the best price are often times the biggest complainers or the ones that try to stuff 10 people in a studio


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## Twinkstarr (May 24, 2011)

ronparise said:


> I dont like to compromise on my price, not because Im unwilling to take less, but rather because the folks that are looking for the best price are often times the biggest complainers or the ones that try to stuff 10 people in a studio



:rofl: Isn't that the truth.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 24, 2011)

Thing is....if people are offering you a price, it doesn't matter if YOU think its low-balling or not...if thats the only offer your getting, its what the market will allow....then thats the price you should be selling/renting for...in the real world prices are dictated by ALOT of factors, most of which being what the consumer will pay

So before you guys criticizes consumers...realize that you owe them a favor for handing over their money to you...that if it wasn't for those 'low-ball' offers in todays market you'd never realize how ridiculously high your rental is prices and be able to correct the problem or rent anything at all

Remember guys just because you CAN charge $700 for a week or you have high MF's doesn't mean you week is worth anywhere near that amount....


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## jlwquilter (May 24, 2011)

I make 'low ball' offers. The person renting is free to say no. Saying yes to my offer - low ball or not, then changing their mind isn't exactly on the up and up on their part, but I've experienced that too.

FYI, my offers are actually in line with what I pay via RCI per night so really, I do not even think of them as low ball, but competitive with my other options.

Point of view/reference is important and some can't see any view but their own. Renters are not all perfect but neither are the people doing the renting.


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## AwayWeGo (May 24, 2011)

*You Typed A Mouthful.*




Ridewithme38 said:


> Thing is....if people are offering you a price, it doesn't matter if YOU think its low-balling or not.


Shux, anybody can buy something for what it's worth.  Ditto for renting timeshare weeks. 

The fun is in buying it, renting it, whatever, at discount -- ranging from a few bux off all the way down to a small fraction of actual value. 

That's why they have eBay & Craig's List & yard sales & PriceLine & flea markets & the bargain-giveaway-last-minute sections of TUG-BBS, etc.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2 (May 24, 2011)

Low ball offer is in the eyes of the beholder.  A low ball offer to the seller may be a top dollar rate to the buyer.  You can always say no.


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## geekette (May 24, 2011)

what does guest vs member have to do with it?


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## sjuhawk_jd (May 24, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> Low ball offer is in the eyes of the beholder.  A low ball offer to the seller may be a top dollar rate to the buyer.  You can always say no.



The issue is not the low ball offer or member vs guests. The issue is the people who are lurking just to make these offers and they do nothing else on TUG. If they also spend some time on TUG to understand basic ABC of timeshares, then make low-ball offers, I am OK with that. Not only they are offering $200 for the week, but I have to answer questions as if they are renting a $3500 ski week from me.


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## am1 (May 24, 2011)

There are a few people that have offered $1 to $100 for Thanksgiving for a resort inside the gates of Disney but not owned by Disney.  They should not even be a response to those. Others will offer half of what it is worth and the few that finally do accept my price end up paying more than if they started with a more reasonable offer.  

In timeshare systems like Wyndham what the market will pay does not dictate the price.  The guest fee, other variable costs, the cost of points dictate most of the price.  The secondary factor is how close to check in and how good of unit/week it is.   

There are a lot of people who want something for nothing and then there are a lot of people who want to sell nothing for a lot.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 24, 2011)

am1 said:


> There are a few people that have offered $1 to $100 for Thanksgiving for a resort inside the gates of Disney but not owned by Disney.  They should not even be a response to those. Others will offer half of what it is worth and the few that finally do accept my price end up paying more than if they started with a more reasonable offer.
> 
> In timeshare systems like Wyndham what the market will pay does not dictate the price.  The guest fee, other variable costs, the cost of points dictate most of the price.  The secondary factor is how close to check in and how good of unit/week it is.
> 
> There are a lot of people who want something for nothing and then there are a lot of people who want to sell nothing for a lot.



Yah, maybe right there is your problem...the market ALWAYS dictates the price...Cost and profit is underlying factor in WHY you rent...if you can't rent for more then you pay, its not worth it to continue doing it, thats the COST of business, not the value of the week or even the Market Value....BUT thats NOT the price the market will bare...you can factor in guest fees, variable costs, points, MF etc. but if your trying to rent a ski in-out resort in the summer, or a beach resort in the dead of winter or even ANY resort during a bad economic time...it doesn't matter what those fees are....The ONLY thing that matters is what people are willing to pay

What it comes down to is would YOU rather eat the MF's and fees from booking a room and not renting it...or renting it for substantially less then you paid for it...therefore eating LESS of the MF's and fees


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## AwayWeGo (May 24, 2011)

*I Resemble 1/2 Of That Remark.*




am1 said:


> There are a lot of people who want something for nothing and then there are a lot of people who want to sell nothing for a lot.


Shux, I want something for nothing -- I rarely get it, but that does not stop me from trying. 

Meanwhile, there is no obligation to respond to any lowball offers.  If they are completely out of the ball park, or they have all the earmarks of scams & hornswoggles, or if you just plain don't like'm, then don't even bother with a counteroffer Shux upon'm. 

_Bonus Feature*:*_ Click here for _Money For Nothing_.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Pens_Fan (May 24, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> What it comes down to is would YOU rather eat the MF's and fees from booking a room and not renting it...or renting it for substantially less then you paid for it...therefore eating LESS of the MF's and fees



Personally, I'd rather eat the entire cost than give it away to someone.

That's just me, though.


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## Sea Six (May 24, 2011)

Isn't this ironic?  One member complains about low-ball rent offers, while other members brag about buying time shares for $1 on e-Bay.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 24, 2011)

Pens_Fan said:


> Personally, I'd rather eat the entire cost than give it away to someone.
> 
> That's just me, though.



Right well me too...if it came down to me enjoying a vacation and eating the costs VS me eating the costs and someone else enjoying the vacation...i'd go too

Thing is, thats not what we're talking about...we're talking about Market price offers on TS Rentals that are extremely overpriced...You wouldn't be eating the Entire cost, you'd be renting it for less then cost, or in some cases just less then *you* believe the inflated value is

So maybe i need to rephrase that..

Would you rather eat the entire cost of the TS, or rent it for whats its Truely Worth?

Heres an example:

I'm going to *hopefully* own a fixed week 27 2br lockoff at Patroits place by the end of the day...the MF is $780 a Guest fee is around $99...If i rent this, my cost is $880 atleast....Do i think its Worth that amount to rent? Absolutly not! How about if i just rent one side and use the other?  Well the Small side, we'll say is a 1/3rd the size of the big side...so $880/3=$293, but looking through the Tug classifieds, i see it for rent for $179 for a week....

Now am i giving it away if i have to rent it at $150 for a week to keep up with market value? Maybe...but thats still $150 less i have to pay to my MF if i hadn't rented it...(And no i won't be renting it...the small side is reserved for rci trades, until my daughter is old enough to need her own side)


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## am1 (May 24, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> What it comes down to is would YOU rather eat the MF's and fees from booking a room and not renting it...or renting it for substantially less then you paid for it...therefore eating LESS of the MF's and fees



With Wyndham I always have the option of cancelling and trying to rent another week.  In that sense it is different than fixed weeks.


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## Ken555 (May 24, 2011)

I think what the OP is really saying is that there is a lack of respect shown to those who have good (or excellent) resorts/weeks for rent here on TUG by a few certain individuals. It's those individuals who are causing the perception of the problem, though it's clear it's endemic in our society, and not basic market conditions which I am certain the OP understands, given previous posts. 

I get it. I respect it. I'm sorry others do not.


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## DeniseM (May 24, 2011)

I don't get offended, but I do often chuckle.

"Can I rent your $3,600 timeshare for $500? - it's all we can afford."

I'd like to respond, "If $500 is all you can afford, you probably shouldn't be going to Maui on vacation - it's very expensive."


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## ronparise (May 24, 2011)

I think we landlords are talking about the market deciding whats a fair price and whats not.  If Im asking too much, shame on me, but if you come in significantly under market, shame on you. 

My costs, mf, guest fees, cleaning fees etc do not enter into the discussion...They are my costs and my problem if they are too high;  not yours. I need to price things at market value. If Ive made a mistake Ill be out of business

Nobody is doing anyone a favor here. You are not doing me a favor by renting from me and Im not doing you a favor by making my stuff available to you. Ideally we will be able to enter into an agreement where everybody is happy.


I advertised a Mardi Gras week this past year for $1000 and the phone rang off the hook. The person I rented it to was concerned that I was trying to scam her because the price was so low. It sounded too good to be true.  Clearly I didnt ask enough.....I am asking more this year because the market says I  can.  But how much more is still a question.  I will say that if Im offered $700 Ill say no and Ill consider that potential renter a low baller un-deserving of my respect and someone to be feared, after all they are trying to steal something from me.  By the way Ive already told last years renter she can have whatever I have for the $1000 she paid last year (for what its worth, I paid $1 for this timeshare..exactly what the seller asked, and exactly market value)


If Im 30 days out and still havent rented it, Ill cancel and try the Jazz Festival, or Essence fest, or Southern Decadence, or Voodoo, or Newyears Eve, or the Sugar Bowl....I have choices to exhaust before I have to give it away.

Back to favors....I troll the rentals wanted listings here on TUG. I have a few orphan points (Wyndham) that I could reserve a weekend with, but I ask the maximum allowed on these boards; $100 a night. I figure thats the market, at least thats what the powers that be here on TUG think....and I feel like Im doing someone a favor when do I offer. I know you've seen the sign.... "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine"  I will say however, that I felt like a bastard when the family made homeless by the tornados  was looking for a place. I should have given that one away.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 24, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I don't get offended, but I do often chuckle.
> 
> "Can I rent your $3,600 timeshare for $500? - it's all we can afford."
> 
> I'd like to respond, "If $500 is all you can afford, you probably shouldn't be going to Maui on vacation - it's very expensive."



Our daughter gets these emails with her timeshare rental business.  She gets people who want Bonnet Creek and say, "I am a military wife and mom, and my husband is in Afghanistan.  I need a vacation and don't have much money, but I can get a 4 star hotel for $59 per night.  If you match that price, I will stay at your place." 

Our daughter says, "Hey that is a great deal on a 4 star hotel.....better take it."


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## MOXJO7282 (May 24, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I don't get offended, but I do often chuckle.
> 
> "Can I rent your $3,600 timeshare for $500? - it's all we can afford."
> 
> I'd like to respond, "If $500 is all you can afford, you probably shouldn't be going to Maui on vacation - it's very expensive."



I've had a certain week listed for sale just as a test and have turned down $9k, $11,250 and  $12.5k. 

I just received an offer for $800 for the same unit, which happens to be an OF in a primo beachfront location.

I sent an e-mail back saying I assume you meant $8k and thanks but no thanks. He responded that he did in fact mean $800. I told him about the other offers and he was incredulous about it said he sees them in his range all the time. 

That's where I ended the exchange because I knew he was either clueless or a scammer and either way not someone I wanted to deal with. So sometimes you do run into people like that.


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## MOXJO7282 (May 24, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Our daughter says, "Hey that is a great deal on a 4 star hotel.....better take it."



I use this one all the time to. I know the market for my units so when someone says "I have this other option at X but would rent from you for this", I say "You should rent what you have because that's much better than my price."


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## pwrshift (May 24, 2011)

For sure, eBay users are out for the lowest price they can get.  It's a buyers market.

But outside eBay, even on Tug rentals, you constantly see rentals way overpriced in comparison to what is available elsewhere.  Those owners don't have a hope.  And while low-ball offers may be annoying the reality is the price renters are willing to pay.

If I haven't been able to rent my week on eBay I just turn it into Interval before the cutoff date for a full deposit.

Brian


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## dioxide45 (May 24, 2011)

The thing is that a low offer isn't necessarily a low ball offer. I often look in the last minute forum where people are putting up a week for $700 because that is the max the forum allows. What percentage of weeks are listed for that $700? Probably fairly high.

Plueezzze, this is last minute stuff. If the limit was $1000 you would see all the initial asking prices go up to $1000. If it were $1200, then... well you get the picture. If you have it listed for $700 and there are no offers coming in over $500 and the only ones you get are $200, then the $700 listing price is probably too high and $500 probably is also.

I see it mentioned all the time that people want the maximum price raised. TUG didn't set the $700 price to be the market price for the forum as one person indicated. $100 a night is about the max anyone should have to pay if they are willing to take something off your hands at the 45 day mark.

If it is points reservations that you can cancel and get all your points back, it really isn't a last minute. IMO, last minute means you will either rent it or lose it.


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## jlwquilter (May 24, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> The thing is that a low offer isn't necessarily a low ball offer. I often look in the last minute forum where people are putting up a week for $700 because that is the max the forum allows. What percentage of weeks are listed for that $700? Probably fairly high.
> 
> Plueezzze, this is last minute stuff. If the limit was $1000 you would see all the initial asking prices go up to $1000. If it were $1200, then... well you get the picture. If you have it listed for $700 and there are no offers coming in over $500 and the only ones you get are $200, then the $700 listing price is probably too high and $500 probably is also.
> 
> ...



Exactly. And if the unit for rent is such a steal at the asking price then it'll be snapped up very quickly and those low ball offers won't even have a chance to be made. But if the unit is sitting around long enough that all these low offers come in, then maybe, just maybe, the asking price is higher than the market is willing to pay. No?

If you place an ad selling something and price negotiation is a routine part of the process, then you have to expect low offers as also part of the process. I don't know why this is so shocking, insulting, etc.

I particularly like the comment that people looking for the lowest price are often times the biggest complainers and rule breakers. Wow.

Chuckling at the absurdity (to you) of the offer is one thing, deriding the person for making the offer is another.


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## pjrose (May 25, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I don't get offended, but I do often chuckle.
> 
> "Can I rent your $3,600 timeshare for $500? - it's all we can afford."
> 
> I'd like to respond, "If $500 is all you can afford, you probably shouldn't be going to Maui on vacation - it's very expensive."



Great response - I wouldn't hesitate!


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## pjrose (May 25, 2011)

I sometimes get them after I've already rented and I'll just respond that it's already been rented for the full price.  

If I haven't rented by 60 days prior I deposit with II; then invariably I get inquiries, often for the full price.  That's frustrating...not their fault of course, but I would have far rather rented than deposited!


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## am1 (May 25, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> The thing is that a low offer isn't necessarily a low ball offer. I often look in the last minute forum where people are putting up a week for $700 because that is the max the forum allows. What percentage of weeks are listed for that $700? Probably fairly high.
> 
> Plueezzze, this is last minute stuff. If the limit was $1000 you would see all the initial asking prices go up to $1000. If it were $1200, then... well you get the picture. If you have it listed for $700 and there are no offers coming in over $500 and the only ones you get are $200, then the $700 listing price is probably too high and $500 probably is also.
> 
> ...



TUG members miss out on a lot of great deals because the maximum is too low.  If you are renting a 1 or 2 bedroom in mid time then maybe $100 is the maximum one should pay but for a 3 or 4 bedroom presidential in prime time the maximum could be higher and everyone would be happy.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 25, 2011)

am1 said:


> TUG members miss out on a lot of great deals because the maximum is too low.  If you are renting a 1 or 2 bedroom in mid time then maybe $100 is the maximum one should pay but for a 3 or 4 bedroom presidential in prime time the maximum could be higher and everyone would be happy.



So why wouldn't someone just list the rental in some other forum that doesn't have such a restrictive minimum? TUG is hardly the only forum for listing rentals.  In fact it's not nearly the best forum for listing rentals of any type, let alone last minute rentals

*******

I hope you are not implying that TUGgers would think that TUG is the only the place they should list or look for minute rentals. Because, you know, that would indicate that you think most of us are pretty stupid.  And I"m sure that's not what you're suggesting, is it?


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## DeniseM (May 25, 2011)

TUG can accommodate rentals of any price in the TUG Marketplace - and it's free to members.  No need for anyone to miss out on a good deal.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

am1 said:


> TUG members miss out on a lot of great deals because the maximum is too low.  If you are renting a 1 or 2 bedroom in mid time then maybe $100 is the maximum one should pay but for a 3 or 4 bedroom presidential in prime time the maximum could be higher and everyone would be happy.



Do you really believe anything is worth more then $100 a night with less then 45 days notice? Doesn't RCI even rent things out for under $300 at that point? thats less then $50 a night...and we know how greedy they are!

I'm of the opposite belief, i think having the maximum set as high as it is is causing people to automatically price their weeks WAY too high and because of that all of TS just get passed right by...look through the rentals offered section right now...90% of the ad's lists at $700 won't be rented...simply because they're twice as high as they should be


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## am1 (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Do you really believe anything is worth more then $100 a night with less then 45 days notice? Doesn't RCI even rent things out for under $300 at that point? thats less then $50 a night...and we know how greedy they are!



Yes.  I do not rent anything out for less than $125/night.


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## tschwa2 (May 25, 2011)

RCI has 571 units at (153 resorts) for rent in June 2011 for $1000+.  This includes several 3 and 4 night stays for over $1000.  I'm not sure how many of these are exchanges (if any) and how many are developer deposits that aren't available for exchange and won't allow RCI to discount.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

tschwa2 said:


> RCI has 571 units at (153 resorts) for rent in June 2011 for $1000+.  This includes several 3 and 4 night stays for over $1000.  I'm not sure how many of these are exchanges (if any) and how many are developer deposits that aren't available for exchange and won't allow RCI to discount.



Clicking on 'Last Calls' on RCI...i see 2008 available units for June 2011(385 resorts)...with my limited knowledge and experience with RCI...i *believe* all the last call listings are under $300 for 7 nights...


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

am1 said:


> Yes.  I do not rent anything out for less than $125/night.



theres no point in your opinion...where the value of a TS drops to below the $125/night? 6 months out? 3 Months? 1 week? 3 days?


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## tschwa2 (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Clicking on 'Last Calls' on RCI...i see 2008 available units for June 2011(385 resorts)...with my limited knowledge and experience with RCI...i *believe* all the last call listings are under $300 for 7 nights...



Not everything gets moved to Last Calls.  Some always stays in Extra Vacations.  Besides RCI didn't pay any MF's on the units it is renting for its own profit.  I would discount "free" weeks to under $300 for last minute exchanges too.


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## am1 (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> theres no point in your opinion...where the value of a TS drops to below the $125/night? 6 months out? 3 Months? 1 week? 3 days?



Okay you are right.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

tschwa2 said:


> Not everything gets moved to Last Calls.  Some always stays in Extra Vacations.  Besides RCI didn't pay any MF's on the units it is renting for its own profit.  I would discount "free" weeks to under $300 for last minute exchanges too.



Yah, but you don't think RCI is a good gauge of rental value of a week? I mean they charge about as much as they can get away with for everything else, too much in most cases...if they thought the market would allow it...they'd rent those weeks for much much more...but because those weeks are only worth less then $300...thats what they rent them for....

Now i agree with you...not all weeks at all resorts drop in value so significantly with short notice rentals...some are worth $400-$600, some even close to $1000...but the majority...are at most $50 a night when under 90 days..under 45 days...well thats much much lower


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> theres no point in your opinion...where the value of a TS drops to below the $125/night? 6 months out? 3 Months? 1 week? 3 days?





am1 said:


> Okay you are right.



haha...it was before 8am...i think i totally phrased that wrong....:rofl: 

*IS* there no point *COMMA* in your opinion....where the value of a TS drops to below the $125/night value?

It was meant to be a question...re-reading it, it sounds like i was saying your opinion didn't matter, thats really not what i meant!


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## skj62 (May 25, 2011)

Why are all these rentals not going into exchange. If the volume of rentals dramatically increases I don't think RCI or the others could unload them and they  would become great exchanges or better yet they should go on the TUG exchange first.


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## sjuhawk_jd (May 25, 2011)

Sea Six said:


> Isn't this ironic?  One member complains about low-ball rent offers, while other members brag about buying time shares for $1 on e-Bay.



How is your example relevant or applicable here, when the starting bid on the ebay auction was $1 and the buyer was the only bidder!! 

The weeks I am talking about are being advertised for $100 per night, usually goes for $300 per night, and somebody wants to give $100 for the week. Again, I do not mind the offer, I do mind that these individuals do not have any posts on TUG and come again and again just for making these offers. If you accept the offer, then the PMs/Emails start for their lengthy "due diligence" as if they are buying a house.


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## sjuhawk_jd (May 25, 2011)

*Well said*



Ken555 said:


> I think what the OP is really saying is that there is a lack of respect shown to those who have good (or excellent) resorts/weeks for rent here on TUG by a few certain individuals. It's those individuals who are causing the perception of the problem, though it's clear it's endemic in our society, and not basic market conditions which I am certain the OP understands, given previous posts.
> 
> I get it. I respect it. I'm sorry others do not.



Well said Ken (or is it Professor Ken the way you worded your post?)


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> The weeks I am talking about are being advertised for $100 per night, usually goes for $300 per night, and somebody wants to give $100 for the week. Again, I do not mind the offer



Let me ask you a question...if you get an offer like this....do you just flat out ignore it...or do they get a response like 'if i don't get any higher offers, its yours'

Now $100 for a week is a bit low...but what if they offered you $350($50 a night?)


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## vacationhopeful (May 25, 2011)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> ...The weeks I am talking about are being advertised for $100 per night, usually goes for $300 per night, and somebody wants to give $100 for the week. Again, I do not mind the offer, I do mind that these individuals do not have any posts on TUG and come again and again just for making these offers. If you accept the offer, then the PMs/Emails start for their lengthy "due diligence" as if they are buying a house.



It is a hobby to them. I call it 20 questions. If they had to pay for a toll phone call or put a stamp on each inquiry, they would find something cheaper as their entertainment/attention getting activity. Usually the last emails become: "Oh, my plans have changed" or "It is only the two of us, will you take $100 as we will only be there 2 days (or was only part of the week?); best I can offer".

Yes, it is frustrating ...


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## vacationhopeful (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Now $100 for a week is a bit low...but what *if they offered you $350($50 a night*?)



$350, I might take. $100-125 is the usually maximum and FINAL offer.


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## ronparise (May 25, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I see it mentioned all the time that people want the maximum price raised. TUG didn't set the $700 price to be the market price for the forum as one person indicated. $100 a night is about the max anyone should have to pay if they are willing to take something off your hands at the 45 day mark.
> 
> If it is points reservations that you can cancel and get all your points back, it really isn't a last minute. IMO, last minute means you will either rent it or lose it.



I see it differently. I see people that will take the maximum price set by TUG, subtle difference perhaps, but a very different point of view

If its true that a post on the last minute 'for rent" forum means I will use it or lose it. What does it mean when someone posts on the "rentals wanted" at the last minute?  Is it fair for me to understand that as  "I have to have it" certainly these folks have to be expected to pay a fair price. perhaps more than market because of their special needs. TUG  prevents price gouging with their artificial $700 limit, but Im not obligated to follow it. (ie i dont have to rent it at all))

Im negotiating now with someone that wants a week in June. There happens to be availability at a Wyndham resort, and I happen to have a reservation in place for later in the year that I can cancel and re book for them. The reservation i would cancel is a high demand week that I plan to ask at least $1500 for. On the theory that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, I will do it, but I do want my bird in the hand. ie paid in advance, no cancel policy  and I asked for $1000. I dont care if I get it or not, I am under no pressure to make this deal. I dont know how bad this person wants this reservation, and I dont care if she finds someone that is under pressure to make a deal, and I dont even care if she stays home...All I know is that her failure to plan ahead is not my problem


As far as posting something for rent on the Bargain forum for rent I agree, some of these are in the use it or lose it category. But certainly not all of them. To avoid this issue I dont buy fixed weeks, only points and floating weeks. (You see, I planned ahead) I may have made a reservation  for someplace special, but at the 45 day mark be forced to change those plans. rather than cancel I make this "something special" available on the Bargain Boards. Ill leave it there for 15 -30 days and if no one wants it (or if Ive priced it to high, Ill cancel. 

It seems that the old saying: "Where you stand depends on where you sit" is true.  Renters see the world differently than landlords.

My last comment has to do with the definition of "low ball offer" vs "market value" and how those values can change with time.  My definition of lo ball is an offer thats more than 20% below market value. and of course market value can change over time. For the weeks I book, I think market value rises the closer we get to the event and I will gradually raise the price I ask, the closer we get, not reduce it.


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## ronparise (May 25, 2011)

sorry I hit the enter button twice

deleted


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## DeniseM (May 25, 2011)

skj62 said:


> Why are all these rentals not going into exchange. If the volume of rentals dramatically increases I don't think RCI or the others could unload them and they  would become great exchanges or better yet they should go on the TUG exchange first.



Because many people can't use another deposit, but they can use the cash to cover their maintenance fees.


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## am1 (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> haha...it was before 8am...i think i totally phrased that wrong....:rofl:
> 
> *IS* there no point *COMMA* in your opinion....where the value of a TS drops to below the $125/night value?
> 
> It was meant to be a question...re-reading it, it sounds like i was saying your opinion didn't matter, thats really not what i meant!



There may be a time where the value of my reservations drop below $125/night.  I choose not to rent lower than that as I will just wait to book a better week.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

am1 said:


> There may be a time where the value of my reservations drop below $125/night.  I choose not to rent lower than that as I will just wait to book a better week.



Noticed your all Wyndham rentals...there is definatly a point where Wyndham resorts do go way below $125 a night...but with the point system..and there rather simple cancellation policy...you never really have 'last minute' rentals...nothing is rent now, or your stuck with it


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## laurac260 (May 25, 2011)

Every once in awhile I log into Redweek and see if  I can snag a concurrent week at Grande Ocean in summer.  There are lists of TS's available for rent all year long, including platinum season.  People ask for $2000-$3000.   I am amazed at the "audacity" of people to ask that much, as much or more than twice what they pay in MF's.  Sometimes I contact them with a "lower" offer.  Last year I was turned down each and every time.  And the weeks disappear anyway, and the place is completely full when I get there. 

Which tells me this...what the heck do I know about FMV?


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> Every once in awhile I log into Redweek and see if  I can snag a concurrent week at Grande Ocean in summer.  There are lists of TS's available for rent all year long, including platinum season.  People ask for $2000-$3000.   I am amazed at the "audacity" of people to ask that much, as much or more than twice what they pay in MF's.  Sometimes I contact them with a "lower" offer.  Last year I was turned down each and every time.  And the weeks disappear anyway, and the place is completely full when I get there.
> 
> Which tells me this...what the heck do I know about FMV?



Alot of those weeks just expire without being rented...Odds are, if you think its too much....it is, thats the VERY VERY basics behind FMV


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## laurac260 (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Alot of those weeks just expire without being rented...Odds are, if you think its too much....it is, thats the VERY VERY basics behind FMV


I'd bet dollars to donuts they get rented.  Grande Ocean Platinum at HHI is one of Marriott's top locations, and many people who go there(HHI) have expendable income (not saying ME, but many).  We just go because it's a laid back, family oriented place.  We don't run in the golf set.


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## aliikai2 (May 25, 2011)

*I do*



DeniseM said:


> I don't get offended, but I do often chuckle.
> 
> "Can I rent your $3,600 timeshare for $500? - it's all we can afford."


Respond exactly like that to someone that is offering so little, so what if they are offended, the offended me.  

There is a point where I will let a unit sit empty before I will let some ****head :ignore: stay there for 10% of the annual fees.

For those that can't afford to be landlords and have vacancies, don't buy more than you can use. 

fwiw, Greg



> I'd like to respond, "If $500 is all you can afford, you probably shouldn't be going to Maui on vacation - it's very expensive."


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## sjuhawk_jd (May 25, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I'd bet dollars to donuts they get rented.  Grande Ocean Platinum at HHI is one of Marriott's top locations, and many people who go there(HHI) have expendable income (not saying ME, but many).  We just go because it's a laid back, family oriented place.  We don't run in the golf set.



+1. Many people have no idea about the demand of high value/high season reservations. Some people here on TUG can not understand how somebody can pay $6K for a 1 week 2 bed reservation at Atlantis, but people do pay that amount.


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## ada903 (May 25, 2011)

If I am a month away and I have not rented my unit for a decent price, or I have an exchange I won't use, I will typically give it away to someone who could really appreciate a vacation and could not afford it otherwise.  Right now we have a couple of newly weds at royal sands in a two bedroom, who otherwise would have spent honeymoon somewhere within driving distance of their home and have never been away from the US.  They have been blogging on facebook every day about their time there and I feel happy I could do this for them.  Yes I could have gotten couple of hundred dollars on tug last minute forum, but when you give, God gives back double.  

I do rent some of my weeks on eBay. I have a few regulars there who will do the same - offer 
a ridiculous price for a peak season week, even a year out.  I decline the offer and move on.

My latest chuckle was a few weeks ago when I woman contacted me on tug and offered to buy my Westin Maui week for $500, generously offering to get me out of my maintenance fees!


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## markel (May 25, 2011)

Ron,

Sorry, but I can't agree with you here. 

I see nothing wrong with a low ball offer, in fact I can't imagine someone not trying it. I'm looking for a few nights in early August (won't mention area until I can via last minute board rules) but I intend to seek the LOWEST rate that I can, if available. I've already been in contact with some Tuggers about this and have the opportunity at RCI exchanges. I will go this route if I need to but why wouldn't I try to "beat down" someone to secure a rental?? I think the economy has alot to do with it and for what it's worth, I want a 2 BR for my wife & I and our three daughters and don't mind "negotiating" with someone to get my best price. I don't think your being fair when you mention "stuffing 10 people in a studio". That sounds to me like you are being very judgemental. You can stand firm on your price, but others may be more negotiable in order to rent their unit.

Mark





ronparise said:


> I dont think its the economy.
> 
> These are folks that no matter what the price, dont consider it a good deal unless the other party is hurt
> 
> ...


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> +1. Many people have no idea about the demand of high value/high season reservations. Some people here on TUG can not understand how somebody can pay $6K for a 1 week 2 bed reservation at Atlantis, but people do pay that amount.



Yup! i'm one of those many people...Priceline has rooms at Atlantis for $353 a night...get two connecting rooms(Most hotels have this) and its still less then $800

I don't understand why people would pay more then the going rate...its too much...the Point of timeshares is getting Better accomidation for cheaper then a hotel room...if its not cheaper then a hotel room...then there is no point to timesharing


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## DeniseM (May 25, 2011)

Ride - you can't really compare 2 hotel rooms to a timeshare with all the amenities of a home.  Your hotel rooms won't have a complete kitchen, a living room, or a washer and dryer.  Those things have a lot of value to us.

Also - not everyone who timeshares is on a budget - some people want the amenities of a condo + the amenities of a resort, and the top timeshares fit that bill.  That's why the resorts like Harborside Atlantis and Westin Ka'anapali can command such high rental prices on a regular basis.  There is a market for luxury accommodations, and it is far less affected by the economy.  I rent my Westin Ka'anapali (Maui) 2 bdm. ocean view TS, every year for $3,600 - months in advance, with no problem.   I've already rented the 2012 week!


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Ride - you can't really compare 2 hotel rooms to a timeshare with all the amenities of a home.  Your hotel rooms won't have a complete kitchen, a living room, or a washer and dryer.  Those things have a lot of value to us.
> 
> Also - not everyone who timeshares is on a budget - some people want the amenities of a condo + the amenities of a resort, and the top timeshares fit that bill.  That's why the resorts like Harborside Atlantis and Westin Ka'anapali can command such high rental prices on a regular basis.  There is a market for luxury accommodations, and it is far less affected by the economy.



Maybe thats why we see things differently...a kitchen and washer/dryer are nice to have...but really nonessential to me....honestly...the main reason i got into timesharing is i want to be able to travel with my daughter(me and her mom aren't together)...and i know it will soon get uncomfortable for her and daddy to be sharing a studio with two queen beds in it, like how a standard hotel room is setup...i'm thinking from 12 up(she's 5 now)...for her...she's going to want her own place to keep her stuff, get changed, personal bathroom space, sleep etc.....so it was between renting out two hotel rooms every time i go anywhere and hope i can get adjoining rooms...or looking into TS type accommodation with actual bedrooms 

Now don't get me wrong...i love the planned activities that these TS's have on site, places like kingsgate with daily movie nights, campfire events and decent gamerooms....or places like in SC with lazy rivers and or TN timeshares with waterpark *type* pools....but those aren't the resorts that rent for obscene amounts of money...i can get 2-3br TS at any of those three for under $100 a night

So its hard for me to understand $2000-$4000 rentals and why they cost so much


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## laurac260 (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Maybe thats why we see things differently...a kitchen and washer/dryer are nice to have...but really nonessential to me....honestly...the main reason i got into timesharing is i want to be able to travel with my daughter(me and her mom aren't together)...and i know it will soon get uncomfortable for her and daddy to be sharing a studio with two queen beds in it, like how a standard hotel room is setup...i'm thinking from 12 up(she's 5 now)...for her...she's going to want her own place to keep her stuff, get changed, personal bathroom space, sleep etc.....so it was between renting out two hotel rooms every time i go anywhere and hope i can get adjoining rooms...or looking into TS type accommodation with actual bedrooms
> 
> Now don't get me wrong...i love the planned activities that these TS's have on site, places like kingsgate with daily movie nights, campfire events and decent gamerooms....or places like in SC with lazy rivers and or TN timeshares with waterpark *type* pools....but those aren't the resorts that rent for obscene amounts of money...i can get 2-3br TS at any of those three for under $100 a night
> 
> So its hard for me to understand $2000-$4000 rentals and why they cost so much



To have my own kitchen, w/d, separate bathrooms, a balcony to see the ocean, separate bedrooms, I can't imagine staying long term in a hotel ever again.  Everyone has different needs, but for me, I'd much rather prepare meals when we travel than eat every meal in restaurants.  We eat dinner maybe 3 nights, TOPS in a restaurant when timesharing.  Breakfast maybe once, if at all, and lunch is 50/50 either sandwiches from the condo or the cantina by the pool.  So when you consider how much you spend at a hotel restaurant vs eating in, that to me is a cost savings.  Call me a food snob, but I would rather cook my own food than spend my money at probably 80% of the restaurants that exist.  We tend to eat 80-90% organic at home, we have allergies to be concerned with, and we don't eat fast food with the exception of the occasional pizza joint.  And we don't camp .   So timesharing offers my family the ability to vacation in a nice place with all the comforts of home.  There, my commercial is over, now please tune in to your regular broadcast.


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## DeniseM (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> So its hard for me to understand $2000-$4000 rentals and why they cost so much



The Westin that I rent for $3,600 has a maintenance fee of over $2,200 a week, so my cost is much higher than most timeshares.

As far as laundry goes, we take carry-ons ONLY on every vacation - even for 2 weeks.  Why drag around a big suitcase when there is a washer and dryer in the unit?  I take clothes that are all in the same color family, so I can do one load every 2 or 3 days while I am sitting around in the evening.


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## am1 (May 25, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> So its hard for me to understand $2000-$4000 rentals and why they cost so much



Stay at a 4 bedroom Presidential inside Disney or in Daytona, Las Vegas and Atlantic City.  10 - 12 people staying in the same unit can be great as long as there are separate bedrooms and its not a studio.  4 bathrooms, top floor.  Makes cooking per person a great price.  Everyone can prepare a meal and the other meals you feel you are at a restaurant but with cheaper drinks.  

An extra hotel room for a 12 year old? That is steep.  

The honeymooners in Mexico cannot be having that much fun if they are blogging on Facebook every day.  But seriously that is a nice thing you have done.  I do the same for people that I know in real life.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

am1 said:


> An extra hotel room for a 12 year old? That is steep.



I've never been a little girl and no matter how old i get i never seem to understand women of any age...so really i'm just guessing on the age thing...i figured at 12 she'll want privacy, she'll be in that awkward stage and the privacy will be good for her..and by 15 she'll hate me so much that she won't want to travel with me unless she can bring a friend, so the extra room will be good...But i'm just a dumb man....i have no idea...In real life, if it wasn't for her, i'd probably be working part time just making enough to get by...not worrying about job title or prestige so i owe her alot...her own room is the least i can do


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## DeniseM (May 25, 2011)

I agree - no later than 12 she should have her own room, and if she develops before that, sooner.  Probably sooner - 12 is late for puberty these days.


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## LAX Mom (May 25, 2011)

markel said:


> ....but why wouldn't I try to "beat down" someone to secure a rental?? I think the economy has alot to do with it and for what it's worth, I want a 2 BR for my wife & I and our three daughters and don't mind "negotiating" with someone to get my best price.
> 
> Mark


Seriously? You're posting the fact that you will "beat down" someone to get a good price on a rental? I definitely won't be "negotiating" with you.

I don't rent weeks on a regular basis, but if I have nights I won't be using I offer them to friends or family, no charge.

When Denise charges $3,600 for her 2 bedroom on Maui she not only has the MF's to consider but also the return on her original investment. When you consider the money could have been invested and earning money she isn't making a big profit. And of course this is just over $500 per night, a great price compared to what Westin charges for a 2 bedroom.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 25, 2011)

LAX Mom said:


> When Denise charges $3,600 for her 2 bedroom on Maui she not only has the MF's to consider but also the return on her original investment. When you consider the money could have been invested and earning money she isn't making a big profit. And of course this is just over $500 per night, a great price compared to what Westin charges for a 2 bedroom.


When I book an airline ticket I don't give one bit of thought as to how much the air carrier has invested in the aircraft, what the cost of fuel is to fly the airplane, and what labor costs are for the crew and ground support. 

As a buyer, the only thing that matters is the price charged for the item or service provided or rendered.  I will certainly pay more for better quality, but again I don't care a bit how much it might cost the seller to provide that added quality; the only thing that matters is what I will receive and how much I will pay for it.

Equally valid is that as the seller I don't care one bit about what the sellers income is, how much the reservation will mean to their failing grandmother for whom this will be the last vacation together,  about how much the vacation is costing them overall, or any of that.  The buyer's economic situation is as irrelevant to the seller as is the seller's to the buyer.

*****

There is simply no reason for a purchaser not to try to negotiate the best deal for themselves that they can.  Similarly, there is no reason for the seller not to negotiate the best deal they can get for themselves.

*****

I have rented units to people knowing that the same unit could be had elsewhere for half my rate.  I have felt no obligation to inform them that my unit was overpriced.  Had they asked, I might have dropped my price. Similarly, when I've purchased timeshares in the past I've sent out inquires to every unit of the type I wanted asking absurdly low prices, and working my way up to see where the market starts to open. I've gotten some angry replies back about insulting "low ball" offers - funny thing though is that other owners getting the same offer have been interested in following through.

But, what one person perceives as an insulting lowball offer can be perceived by another person as their best opportunity to salvage something from a sunk cost.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

This is a very openminded and logical way to think about it...




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> When I book an airline ticket I don't give one bit of thought as to how much the air carrier has invested in the aircraft, what the cost of fuel is to fly the airplane, and what labor costs are for the crew and ground support.
> 
> As a buyer, the only thing that matters is the price charged for the item or service provided or rendered.  I will certainly pay more for better quality, but again I don't care a bit how much it might cost the seller to provide that added quality; the only thing that matters is what I will receive and how much I will pay for it.
> 
> ...


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## LAX Mom (May 25, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> When I book an airline ticket I don't give one bit of thought as to how much the air carrier has invested in the aircraft, what the cost of fuel is to fly the airplane, and what labor costs are for the crew and ground support.
> 
> As a buyer, the only thing that matters is the price charged for the item or service provided or rendered.  I will certainly pay more for better quality, but again I don't care a bit how much it might cost the seller to provide that added quality; the only thing that matters is what I will receive and how much I will pay for it.
> 
> ...


Steve, 

Of course the buyer/renter doesn't care how much the owner paid for MF or other costs associated with owning a timeshare. However these costs do matter to the timeshare owner. If someone is paying $2,200 for MF they will hope to get at least that much when they offer the unit for rent. Some people might be willing to take a lowball offer to salvage something from a sunk cost. Others (like ada who sent some lucky honeymooners to Mexico) would rather offer the unit to friends or family. I prefer this approach, to help out someone who otherwise might not be able to travel.


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## ronparise (May 25, 2011)

markel said:


> Ron,
> 
> Sorry, but I can't agree with you here.
> 
> ...



I dont stand firm on my price, I do negotiate and I firmly believe a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush...I would rather take your $500 than wait and hope for $1000 later. You guys are absolutely right that if comes to a choice of lose it or lose it Ill give it away. I know I will make money on some deals, break even on others and lose on some too...But I will make a deal most of the time. I am  a terrible negotiator, I want the other side to feel good about our deal, tell his friends and come back to me next time I would rather make $100 each on ten deals than hold out for $1000 on one

What upsets me is the prospective renter that doesn't play by the same rules
The guy for whom its not a good deal unless the other side is hurt. I dont play with bullies Ill give it away to you before ill rent to him. And this is the guy I was thinking of when I responded to the op

I also believe that a person loses all negotiating power if they give the sense, that they need this thing. if I sense that you have to have what Im selling...Im sorry, you are screwed. I will get your money. And the flip side of that is true too, If I have to sell now and you know it; you can set your price. If you are playing to win you have to be prepared to walk away. If you are going to hold out for what I think is a too low offer, you better have a back up plan. My preference is for the win/win

my biggest competitor is the person that has gotten themselves into a use it or lose it situation..or is renting to offset just some of their mf. I usually cant beat their price and I usually dont try.  I lost a deal today because I wouldnt rent a split week, They wanted the weekend (July 4th) for half the price of the week. I could have done it but didnt. and they found someone who would. Surprise surprise, he called back later and has a friend that will take the whole week. As I said above the only way you can win at a negotiation is if you are prepared to walk away


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 25, 2011)

LAX Mom said:


> Steve,
> 
> Of course the buyer/renter doesn't care how much the owner paid for MF or other costs associated with owning a timeshare. However these costs do matter to the timeshare owner. If someone is paying $2,200 for MF they will hope to get at least that much when they offer the unit for rent. Some people might be willing to take a lowball offer to salvage something from a sunk cost. Others (like ada who sent some lucky honeymooners to Mexico) would rather offer the unit to friends or family. I prefer this approach, to help out someone who otherwise might not be able to travel.
> 
> ...



If you agree with me, then what was your point in scolding _markel_ for not considering what Denise's cost might be when trying to negotiate his best price???


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## DeniseM (May 25, 2011)

My experience is that the people who try to bargain me down the most, are the least likely to actually rent.  

Many of them aren't very good at bargaining, either.  Last week, one gentlemen pointed me to a website where the same unit was available "for a lot less."  

The base price was lower, but they charged 14% tax  and he thought he was going to get the 7th night free, but that was only for select units, so their  price was actually $300 MORE!   

I pointed that out, but after more than 20 emails he simply disappeared, and I wasn't a bit sorry!  

Most of the time, I just say, "I'm sorry - the price is firm."


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## am1 (May 25, 2011)

I am guessing the people supporting low ball offers do not really know what low ball offers are.  Until you rent out lots of prime units it is hard to understand.  Someone offering $100 for $1000 reservation.  Wyndham guest fee is $99.  

I fully support your daughter having her own bedroom at a timeshare and you having your own as well.  I am just not sure how many father-daughters would get two hotel rooms at that age.  I would say there are a lot of kids stay free promotions to back this up.


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## sjuhawk_jd (May 25, 2011)

ronparise said:


> I dont stand firm on my price, I do negotiate and I firmly believe a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush...I would rather take your $500 than wait and hope for $1000 later. You guys are absolutely right that if comes to a choice of lose it or lose it Ill give it away. I know I will make money on some deals, break even on others and lose on some too...But I will make a deal most of the time. I am  a terrible negotiator, I want the other side to feel good about our deal, tell his friends and come back to me next time I would rather make $100 each on ten deals than hold out for $1000 on one
> 
> What upsets me is the prospective renter that doesn't play by the same rules
> The guy for whom its not a good deal unless the other side is hurt. I dont play with bullies Ill give it away to you before ill rent to him. And this is the guy I was thinking of when I responded to the op
> ...



Well said. Now what do you say in this situation: You have advertised a week for $1800, a prospect seems to be able to get the same week somewhere else (such as resort's website) for $1400 and they want you to match that. Now, how stupid is this, why in the world they want you to match that rate, when they can just get that week from this other place. Asking to beat that rate would be smart, but "match" My simple answer is: take it from this other place. Many times, the prospect comes back to take the week.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 25, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> My experience is that the people who try to bargain me down the most, are the least likely to actually rent.
> 
> Many of them aren't very good at bargaining, either.  Last week, one gentlemen pointed me to a website where the same unit was available "for a lot less."
> 
> ...


Totally agree, Denise. 

In any negotiation you need to know going in what your bottom line is before you start.  The party who is ready to walk away is usually the party is the party that is in the strongest position.  

And my experience in more than 30 years of providing professional services matches precisely with your observation; the customers that make the most noise about cost are the easiest to outplace.  As a rule, not only do they try to drive the hardest bargain, they also expect the most hand-holding after the contract is signed.  And they are also the most likely to threaten to withhold payment or sue if a problem arises.  

Generally, when I sniff out that I'm only being price shopped, I get out the picture as gracefully as I can.  It's no longer worth any effort.  I try to refer the person to other firms whom I know do compete primarily on price.  I'm often glad to pick up clients later when they've gone through the ringer and realized they get what they pay for.


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## SueDonJ (May 25, 2011)

I was still fairly new to TUG (and a whole lot more timid about participating, especially speaking my mind!) when we first considered exchanging through II for a 2-week/2-unit trip to Hawaii.  I put up a post asking whether folks thought it would be doable and what was the best way for us to go about setting up such a trip.  You wouldn't believe the private responses!  The most ridiculous (but not the only one) was from a TUG member with a good amount of posts who suggested that the exchanges would be "definitely empossible," and that if we went the private exchange route we could only expect to get 1BR Hawaii units for our Hilton Head 3BR's.  "Hawaii is the cream of the crop if u don't know."  And no surprise, s/he had a 1BR that s/he'd be willing to "sacrifice" if we'd trade "a July 4th at SurfWatch oceanfront. Get back to me soon."

Thank goodness for the TUGgers who responded to my post with some constructive advice and in one particularly appreciated PM, a warning to watch out for lowball offers.  Eventually II came through with 2 units for 2 weeks and we had a great trip.   

I'll tell you, the experience turned me off of private exchanges.  The reason I'm putting it here is because I think the OP is saying what I was thinking then - that some offers are just ridiculous no matter who makes them, but it's surprising to find there are TUGgers who try to take advantage of another's possible inexperience or misfortune.  Sad but true.


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## timeos2 (May 25, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I'd bet dollars to donuts they get rented.  Grande Ocean Platinum at HHI is one of Marriott's top locations, and many people who go there(HHI) have expendable income (not saying ME, but many).  We just go because it's a laid back, family oriented place.  We don't run in the golf set.



Based on what often truly are low cost prices offered right here on the LMRB that go unclaimed (often without so much as a single reply/inquiry) many DO go unrented. They may still get used as the owner may decide to use it or send a (free) guest rather then let it go to waste. But don't kid yourself - if the price is high it takes the right renter to come along or it will go begging. 

And no matter how low you go you can never be 100% sure it will rent.  I got two bedroom units at two different Super Bowls for under $200 FOR THE WEEK! In one case the time was advertised at over $1000 but two weeks away from the use date they had not rented it. I offered $150 for the three nights I really wanted and they took it - for the whole week!   Meanwhile there were stories in the local press (Miami once and New Orleans the other time) about people paying $1000+ PER NIGHT for a hotel room!  It's all in finding the buyer and that isn't easy for timeshare rentals.  Sometimes you get a true bargain basement deal if you know where to look and what to offer. 

In 1992 - Pasadena I tried to rent a timeshare for that Super Bowl and couldn't.  Just couldn't find one for rent. Yet that same game the local papers had a tale of woe about an owner looking to rent (for over $1000) his 1 bedroom unit and he got no takers. I would have been happy to offer on that but in my searches it did not pop up.  I don't know where he had it offered but at least my search didn't find it so it didn't work.  A lot of it is luck and proper exposure.  Price is only one part.


----------



## Ridewithme38 (May 25, 2011)

You guys have given a new timeshare owner like me some interesting ideas...i own in a rather over developed area...but its during a time when even with the over development everything around it is fully booked(july 4th week)...and i'd kinda enjoy using it

So my thoughts are...even if i do want to use it....i can put it up for a high rental price...if it doesn't get picked up because of the ridiculous price i put up, i'll happily use it....if someone is willing to pay that amount...hell i'll happily make some money too

Maybe thats why some people put up such high prices? They don't really want to rent the week?


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## ronparise (May 26, 2011)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> Well said. Now what do you say in this situation: You have advertised a week for $1800, a prospect seems to be able to get the same week somewhere else (such as resort's website) for $1400 and they want you to match that. Now, how stupid is this, why in the world they want you to match that rate, when they can just get that week from this other place. Asking to beat that rate would be smart, but "match" My simple answer is: take it from this other place. Many times, the prospect comes back to take the week.



Several possibilities depending how low that other rate is, and how hungry I am

1) "Done"

2))   "If you can direct me to the website or ad and I can see it for myself Ill beat the price. If you cant you'll agree to my price. Or we can quit playing around and split the difference right now."

3) "I cant match that but thanks for the opportunity to compete for your business. Call me  next time, I might be able to do better"

4) "buzz off"


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## DeniseM (May 26, 2011)

Someone just emailed me - Another owner beat your price, they will rent to me for XYZ, but I want to rent from you (because you are more established) at their price.  (The lower price.)

I said - That's a better deal, you should rent from them.  (Thanks for the suggestion above.)  I suspect that at lot of these type of offers are not for real.

Ron - with your real estate experience you should be good at the bargaining part - I'm sure you've heard it ALL!


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## rickandcindy23 (May 26, 2011)

As a real estate broker myself, I would say the offers buyers have wanted me to submit are sometimes embarrassing.  For my sellers, I feel it's degrading to present them with an offer that is ridiculously low.  

I am not currently associated with a RE office at this time and am not missing it one bit.  My broker license is inactive.


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## BocaBum99 (May 26, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Totally agree, Denise.
> 
> In any negotiation you need to know going in what your bottom line is before you start.  The party who is ready to walk away is usually the party is the party that is in the strongest position.
> 
> ...



I agree.  As soon as I determine they are a Motel 6 customer, I whip out my sign:


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 26, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Someone just emailed me - Another owner beat your price, they will rent to me for XYZ, but I want to rent from you (because you are more established) at their price.  (The lower price.)
> 
> I said - That's a better deal, you should rent from them.  (Thanks for the suggestion above.)  I suspect that at lot of these type of offers are not for real.
> 
> Ron - with your real estate experience you should be good at the bargaining part - I'm sure you've heard it ALL!


Reminds me of the time I made a job offer to a candidate.  They accepted the offer and we had a start date.  Three days before the person was to start I got a phone call saying they had received an offer from a competitor for 10% more money, and they were going to take that offer unless we matched.  

I wished the person good luck with their new job.  There was dead silence on the other end of the phone for about ten seconds before they said "goodbye".

About six weeks later  the person was back in touch with me, asking if we were still looking to fill the slot.  Actually we still were, but I had a measure of satisfaction in telling the person that they were not among the candidates we were considering, nor did I have any interest in adding their name to the list of candidates I was considering for the position.


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## DeniseM (May 26, 2011)

> I agree. As soon as I determine they are a Motel 6 customer, I whip out my sign:



That's a pretty scary wall - where is it?


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## BocaBum99 (May 26, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> That's a pretty scary wall - where is it?



I just got it from Google.  But, it is the exact words that my Dad had in his Shop.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 26, 2011)

BocaBum99 said:


> I agree.  As soon as I determine they are a Motel 6 customer, I whip out my sign:



One of the best pieces of professional advice I ever received was from a professor (civil engineering) who had actually spent time in the real, non-academic world.  

He told me that in the real world 20% of the employees create 80% of the management and technical problems, and those same employees are almost always the least productive employees.  When we had my degree and left school, the most single most important thing I needed to do was to be sure I was not among those 20%.

One of the greatest pieces of advice I've ever received.  I also recalled his words when one time I realized I was part of the 20%.  And thinking about that I realized that was because the company I was working for and me were no longer a good fit.  We parted ways, and we are both better off for having done so.


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## Egret1986 (May 26, 2011)

*Doing that myself on a week I really want to use coming up in three weeks in VA Beach*



Ridewithme38 said:


> You guys have given a new timeshare owner like me some interesting ideas...i own in a rather over developed area...but its during a time when even with the over development everything around it is fully booked(july 4th week)...and i'd kinda enjoy using it
> 
> So my thoughts are...even if i do want to use it....i can put it up for a high rental price...if it doesn't get picked up because of the ridiculous price i put up, i'll happily use it....if someone is willing to pay that amount...hell i'll happily make some money too
> 
> Maybe thats why some people put up such high prices? They don't really want to rent the week?




It's 40 minutes from home.  But this week is a brand spanking new purchase and the first timeshare that I have bought in many, many years that I can actually see myself keeping because I love this resort and the week always coincides with the annual Boardwalk Art Show (a 4-day extravaganza of art, food, music, amusements, etc).  This year it also happens to include Father's Day and it includes a wedding that we will be attending on the beach.  

However, it is my nature to put everything I buy up for sale/rent.  In this case, the rent and purchase price are way higher than I would normally list.  I received two emails today from one person, who has a definite interest.  I ran it past my hubby.  He doesn't care one way or the other if we stay at the beach or commute back and forth for the wedding and art show.  His thoughts are that if we use the week, it's essentially costing us $1300 (rental amount).  True, but I'm really anticipating using that week now.  I know that I won't back down on pricing, that's for sure.  I'm not even sure now if I'll accept that amount because the closer it gets, the more I'm looking forward to using it.


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## markel (May 26, 2011)

*Agree*

Ron,

Well said, especially the parts about wanting the other side to feel good about the deal & hopefully come back and making $100 on ten rentals instead of wait and hope for $1000 on one rental. 



ronparise said:


> I dont stand firm on my price, I do negotiate and I firmly believe a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush...I would rather take your $500 than wait and hope for $1000 later. You guys are absolutely right that if comes to a choice of lose it or lose it Ill give it away. I know I will make money on some deals, break even on others and lose on some too...But I will make a deal most of the time. I am  a terrible negotiator, I want the other side to feel good about our deal, tell his friends and come back to me next time I would rather make $100 each on ten deals than hold out for $1000 on one
> 
> What upsets me is the prospective renter that doesn't play by the same rules
> The guy for whom its not a good deal unless the other side is hurt. I dont play with bullies Ill give it away to you before ill rent to him. And this is the guy I was thinking of when I responded to the op
> ...


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## vacationhopeful (May 26, 2011)

ronparise said:


> I also believe that a person loses all negotiating power if they give the sense, that they need this thing. ... And the flip side of that is true too, If (LMR poster) have to sell now ... you know it.



I do believe many who respond to the LMR board's posts believe this is the situation. Posters _NEED_ to get some/any amount of rent; anything is better than nothing; so my offer is fair. 

Is that polite (I know you) behavior? Is that yard sale (I will never see you again) behavior? 

At a yard sale, I never expect to see the buyer again or for the buyer to become a return buyer. Buyer beware; it is yours now.  

Is your behavior different between buying from a friend verses a stranger?


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## DrBopp (May 26, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> So before you guys criticizes consumers...realize that you owe them a favor for handing over their money to you...that if it wasn't for those 'low-ball' offers in todays market you'd never realize how ridiculously high your rental is prices and be able to correct the problem or rent anything at all
> 
> Remember guys just because you CAN charge $700 for a week or you have high MF's doesn't mean you week is worth anywhere near that amount....



By the same token, if you are willing to pay $150/day to stay in a cramped hotel, no matter how plush and not to stay in a 1 or 2 BR condo, then I am for letting the prospective renter make that choice. I know what I prefer and what I am willing to pay. I just hope and pray that I am not caught in the situation where I  FEEL I have to rent at an uncomfortably low price.  

Gordon


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## DeniseM (May 26, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Someone just emailed me - Another owner beat your price, they will rent to me for XYZ, but I want to rent from you (because you are more established) at their price.  (The lower price.)
> 
> I said - That's a better deal, you should rent from them.  (Thanks for the suggestion above.)  I suspect that at lot of these type of offers are not for real.



Their "other deal fell through" now they want to rent at full price from me....


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## vacationhopeful (May 26, 2011)

:hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical: :rofl: 





DeniseM said:


> Their "other deal fell through" now they want to rent at full price from me....



:hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical: :rofl: 

Did you say the cost is as quoted with PAYPAL costs to be added onto the invoice? Oh, did I forget to mention the PP costs before?


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## DeniseM (May 26, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> :hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical: :rofl:
> 
> :hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical: :rofl:
> 
> Did you say the cost is as quoted with PAYPAL costs to be added onto the invoice? Oh, did I forget to mention the PP costs before?



I include PP in the cost - less resistance that way.


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## vacationhopeful (May 26, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I include PP in the cost - less resistance that way.



I figure you would collect an additional PP "set of fees" for being such upstanding folks and you helping them out and such.


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## markel (May 26, 2011)

*Sorry Lisa*



LAX Mom said:


> Seriously? You're posting the fact that you will "beat down" someone to get a good price on a rental? I definitely won't be "negotiating" with you.
> 
> I don't rent weeks on a regular basis, but if I have nights I won't be using I offer them to friends or family, no charge.
> 
> When Denise charges $3,600 for her 2 bedroom on Maui she not only has the MF's to consider but also the return on her original investment. When you consider the money could have been invested and earning money she isn't making a big profit. And of course this is just over $500 per night, a great price compared to what Westin charges for a 2 bedroom.



I think your argument has no merit. As a potential renter, do I care what Denise's MF's are?  NO.  Do I care about the price of her original investment? NO. Do I care about anything but getting the best rental price I can? NO. 

Get with it. I'm not in it to pay for someone's MF's or mortgage on their TS. (Not saying anyone has one). I'll make an offer and go from there. If the renter doesn't like it, so be it. Keep in mind, I will find something. With all of the internet sites out there, it isn't that hard to find something.

Mark


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## DeniseM (May 26, 2011)

Just to clarify - the reason I posted about my MF vs rental price, is because a couple people ASKED how anyone can ask over $2,000 to rent a week of timeshare.  If your MF is over $2,000 a week, you are not go to start your rental price at $700 a week.  (Or at least I'm not.)

So why do I ask $3,600?  Because that's what the market will bear.  I'm in it for a profit - pure and simple.  YMMV


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## markel (May 26, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Just to clarify - the reason I posted about my MF vs rental price, is because a couple people ASKED how anyone can ask over $2,000 to rent a week of timeshare.  If your MF is over $2,000 a week, you are not go to start your rental price at $700 a week.  (Or at least I'm not.)
> 
> So why do I ask $3,600?  Because that's what the market will bear.  I'm in it for a profit - pure and simple.  YMMV



Not sure whether your post was in response to mine, but if so I only mentioned you because of what Lisa quoted. It doesn't matter to me who it is; Denise, Tom, Mickey Mouse, or Wonder Woman. A potential renter should not consider what the owner's MF's are or how much they paid for their unit, plain and simple.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 26, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Just to clarify - the reason I posted about my MF vs rental price, is because a couple people ASKED how anyone can ask over $2,000 to rent a week of timeshare.  If your MF is over $2,000 a week, you are not go to start your rental price at $700 a week.  (Or at least I'm not.)
> 
> So why do I ask $3,600?  Because that's what the market will bear.  I'm in it for a profit - pure and simple.  YMMV



Precisely correct.  And one of the beauties of the internet is that it makes it so much easier for renters and owners to find each other, which works to the advantage of both particularly in the last minute rental arena.

Owners need not feel compelled to take an extreme lowball offer because they know there will be other people who will see the ad.  Renters have a greater ability to scout out the market and to find someone who is has something available.

Works for both parties.  The internet lubricates the transaction process.


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## wackymother (May 26, 2011)

I'm having the opposite problem. I'm trying to rent a week at a particular timeshare this summer, in late July/early August (so we're approaching last minute!). 

I've now responded to four ads on Redweek and Craigslist. Only one guy has gotten back to me, and over two weeks he's put me off twice, saying that he is waiting for a response from another renter. 

I'm not trying to dicker with these owners; their prices are reasonable. What's up with not answering responses?


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## bjones9942 (May 26, 2011)

wackymother said:


> I'm having the opposite problem. I'm trying to rent a week at a particular timeshare this summer, in late July/early August (so we're approaching last minute!).
> 
> I've now responded to four ads on Redweek and Craigslist. Only one guy has gotten back to me, and over two weeks he's put me off twice, saying that he is waiting for a response from another renter.
> 
> I'm not trying to dicker with these owners; their prices are reasonable. What's up with not answering responses?



Maybe they're on vacation?


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## aliikai2 (May 26, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Maybe thats why we see things differently...a kitchen and washer/dryer are nice to have...but really nonessential to me....honestly...the main reason i got into timesharing is i want to be able to travel with my daughter(me and her mom aren't together)...and i know it will soon get uncomfortable for her and daddy to be sharing a studio with two queen beds in it, like how a standard hotel room is setup...i'm thinking from 12 up(she's 5 now)...for her...she's going to want her own place to keep her stuff, get changed, personal bathroom space, sleep etc.....so it was between renting out two hotel rooms every time i go anywhere and hope i can get adjoining rooms...or looking into TS type accommodation with actual bedrooms
> 
> 
> or places like in SC with lazy rivers and  waterpark *type* pools....but those aren't the resorts that rent for obscene amounts of money...i can get 2-3br TS at any of those three for under $100 a night


You may find an off season 2 bedroom at the Sheraton Broadway Plantation for under $100 per night, you won't get a prime summer week as we routinely get $1199-$1399 per week for these,  and more for the 2 one bedrooms that a 2 bedroom lock out splits into. :whoopie: 


> So its hard for me to understand $2000-$4000 rentals and why they cost so much


----------



## geekette (May 26, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Yah, but you don't think RCI is a good gauge of rental value of a week?



NO!  RCI doesn't give a flip about value nor the ts nor the owner.  That's why they have so much one-size-fits-all pricing.


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## wackymother (May 27, 2011)

bjones9942 said:


> Maybe they're on vacation?



Maybe...but the ads all went up within the week or ten days before I answered them, so you would think the people might anticipate that renters might be trying to contact them.


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## sjuhawk_jd (Jun 29, 2011)

*Example of low-balling guest*

This is what I was talking about when I started this thread (see post #3 in the thread below):

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1132886

Only time these guests appear on TUG is to make these offers.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 29, 2011)

aliikai2 said:


> You may find an off season 2 bedroom at the Sheraton Broadway Plantation for under $100 per night, you won't get a prime summer week as we routinely get $1199-$1399 per week for these,  and more for the 2 one bedrooms that a 2 bedroom lock out splits into. :whoopie:



i guess i wouldn't be staying at that one resort....During those one or two prime weeks


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## dioxide45 (Jun 29, 2011)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> This is what I was talking about when I started this thread (see post #3 in the thread below):
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1132886
> 
> Only time these guests appear on TUG is to make these offers.



The "low ball" offer as a full week after the initial ad, and after it had also been bumped once. While it was a guest with only one post before posting in the thread, I wouldn't take offense to it.


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## timeflies (Jun 30, 2011)

I had listed a Wyndham studio unit in Panama city beach.  Here is a message I received from an ebayer,

 "hey , my family and i are looking for a place in this area . i am 34 years old and have 3 kids all under 6 ... budget is very tight and was wondering if you could take 300 for the whole week since its a short notice. we are looking right now all day to see if we can come up with a deal ......thanks for your time"

I mentioned that a studio unit was for only 2 and that I would not rent it that low.  I also said that I had already given to charity as I donate 2 weeks a year to the wounded warriors project.  The ebayer then asked if I had a 1 or 2 bedroom I would be willing to rent to hin for $350.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 30, 2011)

So we don't like capitalism?


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## Twinkstarr (Jun 30, 2011)

timeflies said:


> I had listed a Wyndham studio unit in Panama city beach.  Here is a message I received from an ebayer,
> 
> "hey , my family and i are looking for a place in this area . i am 34 years old and have 3 kids all under 6 ... budget is very tight and was wondering if you could take 300 for the whole week since its a short notice. we are looking right now all day to see if we can come up with a deal ......thanks for your time"
> 
> I mentioned that a studio unit was for only 2 and that I would not rent it that low.  I also said that I had already given to charity as I donate 2 weeks a year to the wounded warriors project.  The ebayer then asked if I had a 1 or 2 bedroom I would be willing to rent to hin for $350.



Kind of sounds like some of the "sob stories" that used to show up on the Rent/Trade board for DVC.  

We need a 2br at Wilderness Lodge cheap because Grandpa is getting up in years and he used to be a lumberjack and we want him to relive his youth. We need to go Xmas/NYE and can only pay $7per point(going rate for rentals is higher to start with, then throw in VWL is the resort to stay at for that time of year). Of course this was posted only a few months out.


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## logan115 (Jun 30, 2011)

Twinkstarr said:


> Kind of sounds like some of the "sob stories" that used to show up on the Rent/Trade board for DVC.
> 
> We need a 2br at Wilderness Lodge cheap because Grandpa is getting up in years and he used to be a lumberjack and we want him to relive his youth. We need to go Xmas/NYE and can only pay $7per point(going rate for rentals is higher to start with, then throw in VWL is the resort to stay at for that time of year). Of course this was posted only a few months out.



At times I've seen similar posts/requests like that where the potential guest makes it seem like you're a jerk if you don't want to rent your points at 1/2 price...........

Chris


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## timeflies (Jun 30, 2011)

I do like capitalism.  What I don't like is people that make up crap to try and make you feel guilty for not letting them have something for nothing.  If you want to make a a low offer, that is fine.  I can either accept it or decline.  I have no problem doing one or the other.  It is the "story" that many of these people tell.  If you are in that bad of a shape then you need to keep your money and use it for necessities.  

I have been young and broke.  If money was that tight we stayed home.  I didn't expect other people to pay for my vacations.


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## Twinkstarr (Jun 30, 2011)

logan115 said:


> At times I've seen similar posts/requests like that where the potential guest makes it seem like you're a jerk if you don't want to rent your points at 1/2 price...........
> 
> Chris



Seen those also, like the renter is your only hope to use the points and is really helping you out.  


There is one woman on the DIS R/T board who shows up in a month or so looking for an October reservation. I remember her because her kids "model/act" (all this is on her profile/signature) and she's always looking for something on the cheap. I think she must book CRO and then trolls for a naive DVC'er to get a low ball studio mid-October. She never gets many replies to her thread, always bumping to the 1st page.

I look every so often at the R/T board for a good laugh.


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## timeflies (Jun 30, 2011)

It's the sob stories that get me.  I could never tell a person such sad sob stories to try and get something for nothing.  Maybe some of the stories are true, but I have no way of knowing.  I will consider lower offers if presented correctly but I really hate the sob stories.  These people try to make others feel guilty as a way of getting what they want.

I donate 2 weeks a year to the wounded warriors project.  I'm retired military myself and live close to an army post.  If I have a week that is use or lose and I haven't been able to rent it for a decent price I often give it away.  I will drive to post and offer it to some soldier that has just come home from a 12 or 15 month deployment.  I won't give it to a wife or husband whose husband or wife is deployed.  The soldier must be going as well.


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## Bellatrix (Jun 30, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I see it mentioned all the time that people want the maximum price raised. TUG didn't set the $700 price to be the market price for the forum as one person indicated. $100 a night is about the max anyone should have to pay if they are willing to take something off your hands at the 45 day mark.
> 
> If it is points reservations that you can cancel and get all your points back, it really isn't a last minute. IMO, last minute means you will either rent it or lose it.


well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, your definition of last minute doesn't seem to be the accepted one.  I've been trying to figure out how long $700 has been in place because it seems very artificial and even so, the cost of living has gone up considerably since it was set, just saying.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jun 30, 2011)

Bellatrix said:


> well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, your definition of last minute doesn't seem to be the accepted one.  I've been trying to figure out how long $700 has been in place because it seems very artificial and even so, the cost of living has gone up considerably since it was set, just saying.



Ahh but unemployement has also gone up, heck even gas prices went down recently...i think we should lower it to something like $75 a night


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## ronparise (Jun 30, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Ahh but unemployement has also gone up, heck even gas prices went down recently...i think we should lower it to something like $75 a night


...so stay home

Have you ever seen the sign that says "your failure to plan ahead is not my problem"

In my opinion the dollar limit should be removed altogether. My assumption when I see a post on the last minute rentals wanted board, is that this person needs me....I see dollar sighs.  A potential renter, that needs a place to sleep, and failed to plan for it, should be able to offer what ever he wants to get it. And as someone that rents, I think I should be able to take advantage of that need (or not) as I see fit.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 30, 2011)

ronparise said:


> ...so stay home
> 
> Have you ever seen the sign that says "your failure to plan ahead is not my problem"
> 
> In my opinion the dollar limit should be removed altogether. My assumption when I see a post on the last minute rentals wanted board, is that this person needs me....I see dollar sighs.  A potential renter, that needs a place to sleep, and failed to plan for it, should be able to offer what ever he wants to get it. And as someone that rents, I think I should be able to take advantage of that need (or not) as I see fit.



There is a difference here between last minute rentals and last minute want ads. However it isn't always about desparation and ill planning. Someone could have a backup reservation and are just trying to work a better deal with a last minute rental.

If the limit were to be removed, everyting should just be listed "best offer". That is really what it is anyway, right? Someone throws out a $700 rental and everyone offers less.


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## tombo (Jun 30, 2011)

ronparise said:


> ...
> In my opinion the dollar limit should be removed altogether. My assumption when I see a post on the last minute rentals wanted board, is that this person needs me....I see dollar sighs.  A potential renter, that needs a place to sleep, and failed to plan for it, should be able to offer what ever he wants to get it. And as someone that rents, I think I should be able to take advantage of that need (or not) as I see fit.



There is a place on TUG where people can charge whatever they want for their week. It is the TUG rentals. If TUG allows people to charge whatever they want on last minute rentals the forum loses it's appeal. The reason most  people look at those rentals all the time is because EVERY week is $700 or less no matter where or when the week is. Nobody forces anyone to place an ad for their week on LMR. Very few TUGGERS (if any) list their week on LMR first. Most if not all of the LMR weeks (including mine) have not rented using other sites and now are listed on LMR because something beats nothing. 

Anyone who feels that their week should rent for more than $700 can and by all means should offer it for rent on the regular TUG rentals,Redweek, Myresortnetwork etc for whatever the market will bear. LMR's are $100 a night or less to give TUGGERS who rent those LMR's good deals, and they are cheap to help generate interest in weeks that are getting close to the check-in date. 

Because LMR is a low price rental forum you get some bargain hunters who offer a really low price for your week. The thing is that sometimes a lowball offer you really don't want to take might be your only offer. As I said in some cases something beats nothing. I would rather make a counter offer to a lowballer than have no offer at all. JMO


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## sail27bill (Jun 30, 2011)

timeflies said:


> I have been young and broke.  If money was that tight we stayed home.  I didn't expect other people to pay for my vacations.



Amen  

I have the opposite problems though.  I have family who give me sob stories about not having money and wanting me to "gift" them my harborside unit for free.  The thing is, they are not poor in the least...they probably have more money than I do.  I have also had co-workers offer less than my MF when they know how much 2 bedroom units at Harborside rent for.  I don't mind a lowball offer as much as I mind the fact that they are trying to take advantage.  I have gifted vacations to certain family members that I knew could use it, but people trying "to get over" really upsets me.

Anita


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## pranas (Jun 30, 2011)

I have not tried to rent anything listed on the last minute rental thread. I have looked and been tempted a few times to make a low ball offer if a week was about to expire and the location was within a few hours driving distance.  I have some flexibility in my working hours and can get some of my work done as long as I have access to the Internet.  If the price is right and it is place I would like to spend a few days, what is wrong with trying to get a good deal.  Making up sob stories is a different thing.  Anyway. I am glad I never  did make an offer and now know not to bother doing so.


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## Mel (Jul 1, 2011)

sail27bill said:


> Amen  I have the opposite problems though.  I have family who give me sob stories about not having money and wanting me to "gift" them my harborside unit for free.  The thing is, they are not poor in the least...they probably have more money than I do.  I have also had co-workers offer less than my MF when they know how much 2 bedroom units at Harborside rent for.  I don't mind a lowball offer as much as I mind the fact that they are trying to take advantage.  I have gifted vacations to certain family members that I knew could use it, but people trying "to get over" really upsets me.


Personally, I would not reduce my rent for a "sob story" unless it was someone I know, or a friend of a friend.  If life is truly that bad, and they can't afford a vacation, they probably qualify for one of the many programs that will send them on a vacation.

If they just have different priorities on where to spend their money, that is their problem, not mine.  My 16YO DD has friends who have never been on a family vacation of more than 2 days, but who have every electronic device available.  They can't _afford_ a longer vacation because they are paying for their toys.  That's their choice, they can learn to live with it.  

I would be more inclined to accept a late low ball offer if it is NOT accompanied by a sob story.


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## timeflies (Jul 1, 2011)

I feel the same way.  I am more inclined to consider an offer if it is not accompanied by a sob story.  I am a compassionate person.  I do what I can to help people.  I simply have no way of verifying these sob stories.  

I have no problem with people offering me a lower price. I just don't want the sob stories.


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## ronparise (Jul 1, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> There is a difference here between last minute rentals and last minute want ads. However it isn't always about desparation and ill planning.



And from the owners perspective posting something for rent on these boards  doesnt imply that I need to use it or lose it.

Vacancies are a fact of life in any real estate rental business. In fact if I dont have a vacancy rate of about 10%, I figure Im not charging enough.


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## ronparise (Jul 1, 2011)

tombo said:


> There is a place on TUG where people can charge whatever they want for their week. It is the TUG rentals. If TUG allows people to charge whatever they want on last minute rentals the forum loses it's appeal. The reason most  people look at those rentals all the time is because EVERY week is $700 or less no matter where or when the week is. Nobody forces anyone to place an ad for their week on LMR. Very few TUGGERS (if any) list their week on LMR first. Most if not all of the LMR weeks (including mine) have not rented using other sites and now are listed on LMR because something beats nothing.
> 
> Anyone who feels that their week should rent for more than $700 can and by all means should offer it for rent on the regular TUG rentals,Redweek, Myresortnetwork etc for whatever the market will bear. LMR's are $100 a night or less to give TUGGERS who rent those LMR's good deals, and they are cheap to help generate interest in weeks that are getting close to the check-in date.
> 
> Because LMR is a low price rental forum you get some bargain hunters who offer a really low price for your week. The thing is that sometimes a lowball offer you really don't want to take might be your only offer. As I said in some cases something beats nothing. I would rather make a counter offer to a lowballer than have no offer at all. JMO



The title of this section of TUG is "Last Minute Rentals "  Its not cheap rentals or bargain rentals...I understand that the rules limit price, but Im suggesting the rules be changed, or re-title the section to "Bargain Rentals"

I assume that folks come to this section on TUG, because they need a place to sleep, not because they might want to travel if its cheap enough


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## vacationdoc (Jul 1, 2011)

*Let's stay with what works ----- LMR*

"I assume that folks come to this section on TUG, because they need a place to sleep, not because they might want to travel if its cheap enough[/QUOTE]

I disagree.  I rented a week at the Donatello in San Francisco last week for $249.00, although I live less than 3 miles from the Donatello! I had no intention of renting but the price was too good not to rent it.  Yes,  that was the seller's original offer; I would never dream of offering so little.  However, I would not have rented for more. I check LMR frequently and sometimes do decide to "travel if it is cheap enough." I check into the Donatello this afternoon, and can't wait.  I can watch the fireworks; then walk "home" without the mob scene of driving or riding the muni Monday night.  Thanks, last minute rentals for another great vacation.  Judy


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 1, 2011)

Maybe thats where i'm seeing the LMR section wrong...I never thought of it as a way for a business to advertise...To me it always felt like friends helping friends out

For instance, if i'm a rental company, i'm renting not what would be my personal use, but inventory that i own specificly for rental, not to friends or people, but to customers...theres no real reason for me to accept anything less then the highest possible dollar, because its just a business transaction

I always thought the LMR section was more people saying 'hey i have this week that i wanted and planed to use, but something came up and  i can't use it....Do you want it? I need a few bucks to help cover the MF's though"

Am i wrong? is the LMR section all just private businesses offering up expiring stock instead of forum members, offering vacations they can't use?


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## ronparise (Jul 1, 2011)

vacationdoc said:


> "I assume that folks come to this section on TUG, because they need a place to sleep, not because they might want to travel if its cheap enough



I disagree.  I rented a week at the Donatello in San Francisco last week for $249.00, although I live less than 3 miles from the Donatello! I had no intention of renting but the price was too good not to rent it.  Yes,  that was the seller's original offer; I would never dream of offering so little.  However, I would not have rented for more. I check LMR frequently and sometimes do decide to "travel if it is cheap enough." I check into the Donatello this afternoon, and can't wait.  I can watch the fireworks; then walk "home" without the mob scene of driving or riding the muni Monday night.  Thanks, last minute rentals for another great vacation.  Judy[/QUOTE]

So my suggestion of renaming the section...Bargain rentals makes sense...

or better yet create two new sections.."Bargain Rentals" and "Last Minute Rentals"   because as we have disccussed ....they are different

and maybe to satisfy Ride...a third.. "Free to a good home"


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## ampaholic (Jul 1, 2011)

vacationdoc said:


> "I assume that folks come to this section on TUG, because they need a place to sleep, not because they might want to travel if its cheap enough - snip-



People buy things they otherwise wouldn't all the time because they are "cheap enough"

Heck I bought the house I live in because it was "cheap enough" - and very likely so did you.

We have to remember travel is an *option* for most people to whom the LMR is addressed - sometimes people need an incentive to exercise their option.

IMHO


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## am1 (Jul 1, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> M
> 
> I always thought the LMR section was more people saying 'hey i have this week that i wanted and planed to use, but something came up and  i can't use it....Do you want it? I need a few bucks to help cover the MF's though"



But you wanted $700 (to start with) for the small side of your 2 bedroom lockoff and I believe got the use for free.

The LMR Board is a mix of things.  The limit is too low for me to be able to offer some very good weeks to the TUG Community.  But that is the powers that be's choice.


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## tombo (Jul 1, 2011)

am1 said:


> But you wanted $700 (to start with) for the small side of your 2 bedroom lockoff and I believe got the use for free.
> 
> The LMR Board is a mix of things.  The limit is too low for me to be able to offer some very good weeks to the TUG Community.  But that is the powers that be's choice.



Actually that is your choice. If you want to rent it bad enough and it is getting close to check-in you can offer it for $700 on LMR, or you can refuse to offer it for $700 or less and use other sites or bank it.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 1, 2011)

am1 said:


> But you wanted $700 (to start with) for the small side of your 2 bedroom lockoff and I believe got the use for free.



The MF are $776 i would have taken $350 for it...shh, don't tell anyone 



am1 said:


> The LMR Board is a mix of things.  The limit is too low for me to be able to offer some very good weeks to the TUG Community.  But that is the powers that be's choice.



Is this a MF issue? i wouldn't be against the LMR board changing the limit to that of the maintenance fees for that unit...it makes sense when renting to/for friends and family to pay/rent for what it cost them


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## am1 (Jul 1, 2011)

The limit being what it is (too low) is not my choice.   Me not wanting to rent for under the current limit is my choice. 

Based on MF's would never work.  Who would verify?  This years MF's or last years which was actually for this year?  Some rooms I rent out have a MF of $2225 plus a $99 guest fee.  How about a lock off.

It is the owners of this sites choice.  $100 a night is an easy number to use.


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## tombo (Jul 1, 2011)

ronparise said:


> I assume that folks come to this section on TUG, because they need a place to sleep, not because they might want to travel if its cheap enough



When I need a place to sleep I look everywhere for a good deal. TUG, Redweek, Travelocity,etc, etc, etc. I plan my trips I know I am going to make far in advance and LMR would never be my choice for a major vaction because i am not waiting until 45 days out to plan it. I have had my room for 6 months or more for a regular vacation. I also don't own a week I would list for rent for $700 or less 1 year to 6 months in advance. If TUG let us post for $100 or less a night 6 months in advance I wouldn't list my week on LMR. It is where I list my week when I am getting close to banking it and some money beats none IMO.

I look all the time at LMR BECAUSE IT IS CHEAP and I KNOW THAT IT IS LAST MINUTE BEFORE LOOKING. I have rented a couple of last minute weeks from others that I couldn't use for more than 3 or 4 days for no reason other than it was cheap. If something within driving distance from my house is cheap enough I will plan and make a trip I never would have otherwise. $300 for a week in New Orleans where I can stay for only 3 or 4  nights is a deal worth creating a trip for. That is not me reserving a room to take a trip I was planning on, but one I did just because of the price. $500 for a beach week in May that I can only spend 4 nights is still a good deal. I have done that too. I would never wait until 30 to 45 days out to plan a major trip, but a LAST MINUTE low priced rental spur of the moment trip is a different story.


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## tombo (Jul 1, 2011)

am1 said:


> The limit being what it is (too low) is not my choice.   Me not wanting to rent for under the current limit is my choice.
> 
> It is the owners of this sites choice.  $100 a night is an easy number to use.



If your week/rental requirements don't fit the LMR rules, why should TUG change them? If you don't like the price restriction advertise on any of hundreds of web sites that allow you to charge whatever you want including the regular TUG rentals. This forum is for Last Minute Rentals offered for $100 a night or less. No one makes anyone post their weeks on LMR,it is a free option using the listing rules. A couple of TUGGERS like to complain the price is too low but there is no shortage of weeks being posted on LMR every day for $100 a night or less. In fact if you listed a week for rent on LMR yesterday morning you are probably no longer on the first page there are so many new listings. Looks like plenty of TUGGERS feel like it is worth taking a chance on $700 or less once it hits the 45 day mark. If you are not one of those who would take $100 or less a night last minute for your week, don't list your week on LMR.
__________________


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## am1 (Jul 1, 2011)

tombo said:


> If your week/rental requirements don't fit the LMR rules, why should TUG change them? If you don't like the price restriction advertise on any of hundreds of web sites that allow you to charge whatever you want including the regular TUG rentals. This forum is for Last Minute Rentals offered for $100 a night or less. No one makes anyone post their weeks on LMR,it is a free option using the listing rules. A couple of TUGGERS like to complain the price is too low but there is no shortage of weeks being posted on LMR every day for $100 a night or less. In fact if you listed a week for rent on LMR yesterday morning you are probably no longer on the first page there are so many new listings. Looks like plenty of TUGGERS feel like it is worth taking a chance on $700 or less once it hits the 45 day mark. If you are not one of those don't list your week.
> __________________



Dude you should relax its the weekend. 

 I do not have a problem with TUG being able to set the max at $700. I even said in the post that you quoted that it is the owners choice to set the limit they want.  It is their website.   I did not ask TUG to change them.    I do not complain that the price is too low. I am saying it is too low for me to post my weeks.  So I post them elsewhere with success.


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## ronparise (Jul 1, 2011)

tombo said:


> If your week/rental requirements don't fit the LMR rules, why should TUG change them? If you don't like the price restriction advertise on any of hundreds of web sites that allow you to charge whatever you want including the regular TUG rentals. This forum is for Last Minute Rentals offered for $100 a night or less. No one makes anyone post their weeks on LMR,it is a free option using the listing rules. A couple of TUGGERS like to complain the price is too low but there is no shortage of weeks being posted on LMR every day for $100 a night or less. In fact if you listed a week for rent on LMR yesterday morning you are probably no longer on the first page there are so many new listings. Looks like plenty of TUGGERS feel like it is worth taking a chance on $700 or less once it hits the 45 day mark. If you are not one of those who would take $100 or less a night last minute for your week, don't list your week on LMR.
> __________________



I understand the rules and I follow them (most of the time) but when I think something is wrong and say so, Id like  to be taken seriously

This "Its my ball you play by my rules"  attitude is what dislike the most here on TUG

The powers that be and "in crowd" here refuse to consider  suggestions from the rest of us

It would be nice to find a place where there could be open discussion of ideas without the old guard taking constructive criticism as a personal insult...but its not here


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 1, 2011)

ronparise said:


> This "Its my ball you play by my rules"  attitude is what dislike the most here on TUG
> 
> The powers that be and "in crowd" here refuse to consider  suggestions from the rest of us
> 
> It would be nice to find a place where there could be open discussion of ideas without the old guard taking constructive criticism as a personal insult...but its not here


In the time that I have been on TUG this issue has been hashed out thoroughly at least three times, with ample participation from a wide variety of parties. 

To say that "the powers that be and "in crowd" here refuse to consider  suggestions from the rest of us" simply doesn't jibe with my observations and experience.

What often does happen is that when an issue is thrashed out and the decision doesn't go the way some people like, those people accuse those who did the make the decision of being closed-minded because the decision didn't go the way they wanted.  Those prior discussions on occasion descended into name calling, accusations of being obtuse, simple-minded, out-of-touch with reality, and similar.  All of which required a fair amount of effort to police and clean up by the moderators.  Which understandably leads to a certain reticence to reopen the subject every time someone comes along and says the don't like the rules and they think the rules should be changed.

Ron - all of the points you raised have been thoroughly aired in past discussions, and after a full airing of the issues the decision was made to have the current rules.  That certainly doesn't mean it can't be revisited, but as I have noted above these is reluctance to continually revisit past decisions without their being something new added to the picture that wasn't previously considered.

And I hope that you will recognize this as simply constructive criticism of how things have played out in the past.


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## geoand (Jul 1, 2011)

I am always amazed that some new members or some new posters on Tug think that they have original ideas and think Tug should allow for those new ideas.  As Trog has stated, this issue and so many others have been visited time and time again.  There is a lot of wisdom represented by those who post on Tug including those who have been here for many years.


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## ronparise (Jul 1, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> In the time that I have been on TUG this issue has been hashed out thoroughly at least three times, with ample participation from a wide variety of parties.
> 
> To say that "the powers that be and "in crowd" here refuse to consider  suggestions from the rest of us" simply doesn't jibe with my observations and experience.
> 
> ...



I appreciate the history lesson but if every discussion was ended with a comment like ..."we've discussed that before" we would have little to talk about indeed..There would be no need for the form letter thats posted ever time someone brings up selling their timeshare

and I respect the rules, and I like that there is a place to give away my week if I want to and advertise it for rent if I would rather do that.

Im not trying to change the rules, but I do enjoy a lively discussion. All I was trying to do is to point out how one feels about pricing depends on where you are coming from. 

Are a landlord, by design or accident, 

or a tenant in need or someone that can be tempted by a bargain....(Ive never understood impulse buyers..if I go in a store to buy underwear, I dont come out with sox too.)

To end the discussion with a "its my sandbox, you play by my rules or go home" comment is maddening

as am1 said.. "Dude you should relax its the weekend"


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 1, 2011)

geoand said:


> I am always amazed that some new members or some new posters on Tug think that they have original ideas and think Tug should allow for those new ideas.  As Trog has stated, this issue and so many others have been visited time and time again.  There is a lot of wisdom represented by those who post on Tug including those who have been here for many years.



Sometimes a new perspective can change the whole direction of previous discussions, every person has different experiences, which leads to a different opinions and expertise people and their 'reality' are as different as snow flakes ...It's understandable not wanting to re-hash things that have been discussed before...but i don't think new people and their thoughts, ideas and/of beliefs should be discouraged or shut down because some has been talked about

I wasn't around for previous discussions on this topic...but with everyone's experiences differing so much....why not always keep the conversation open...who knows what can be learned?


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## tombo (Jul 1, 2011)

ronparise said:


> I understand the rules and I follow them (most of the time) but when I think something is wrong and say so, Id like  to be taken seriously
> 
> This "Its my ball you play by my rules"  attitude is what dislike the most here on TUG
> 
> ...



Who is the in crowd? There are 2 sides to every discussion and I have been on the opposite side of almost everyone on TUG in one discussion or another. So I would have to have agreed with the in crowd sometimes, and disagreed and debated them other times. I don't take a debate as an insult unless someone calls me names or otherwise makes it personal. To disagree with me is fine.I am not always right even though I think I am or I wouldn't argue my point.

I dislike ROFR and argue that it doesn't prop up prices one penny. Many old time members vehemently disagree. We have debated that many times

I do not personally like Disney parks and consider the Disney rides boring. Many old TUG members vehemently disagree. I have posted that several times and have made some people mad even though that was not my intention. My intention was to say that some people don't like Disney, but I agree most here do.

Not a big fan of II. Many here love II. I think Mariott mmbers get too many breaks with II and non Marriott owners are second class members. Many old timers here disagree strongly.

I really like the new RCI weeks program. Many old timers disagree strongly.

Which of my above opinions are part of the in crowd's views and which are in opposition? I sure don't know. 

I listened to your suggestion about raising the limit on LMR's and disagreed with you. I took you seriously enough to state why I think it is a bad idea. Should I have capitulated when you posted and said great idea even though I disagree? Should I have ignored your post and said nothing because I disagreed and didn't want to argue? When you post a suggestion to change something is any opposing response personal, taking a ball and going home,or simply a dissenting view. I did not take your post personal, i just disagreed with it strongly. I hope you don't take my posts as personal.

Back to the original debate. I still feel that keeping the maximum price on LMR's fairly low increases interest from the general public and many TUGGERS. That same interest would not occur if LMR weeks were allowed to be listed for $1000, $2000, or any price someone chose. If that happens LMR becomes another web site with timeshares for rent just like dozens of other web sites. Yawn. Why do you think RCI has bargain basement prices on their last minute getaways no matter when/where they are located? They price them cheap to generate interest and help move inventory with short shelf life of course. If the prices were as high as their extra vacations why would anyone rent the last minute stuff?

No disrespect. No old guard. JMHO which like you I have the right to state.


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## timeos2 (Jul 1, 2011)

*It works so lets leave it alone*

And I'll add this observation. The intent of the Last Minute Rental Board was to be a value area for anyone to post an offer - no more than 45 days away and for a limited dollar amount. If yours doesn't fall in those areas then it may not be a good fit. 

It has been very successful in getting owners a few dollars to as much as their annual fee (if it's $700 or less) for time they were having a hard time finding a standard taker for.  I've used a 1/2 dozen myself and got great values. 

As for the price that always amuses me. We have some truly great weeks / resorts show quite regularly within the $700 max ($100/night) limits - most of those are at a considerable discount from the annual fee paid. Yet what often happens? They don't rent!  In fact it is very common to see posts cutting the price even further - often for prime, Holiday use - and STILL no takers!  Since they don't rent at the current limit how does it make sense that they would be more likely to at even higher asking prices? While we used to have an active member that said if your week didn't sell raise your price that advice didn't really seem to work well. 

So my decision is once again to keep a winning process as it is.  I appreciate the well expressed opinions as to why it should change but after careful reading and consideration do not find them compelling.  As always I'm open as the Moderator of the LMRB to any and all suggestions at any time as things do change. The name has taken on a meaning of its own so I would hesitate to change that.  The day will come when new rules are in order and, provided that Brian agrees as he holds the ultimate say, it will be changed.  Now is not that time.


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## ampaholic (Jul 1, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> So my decision is once again to keep a winning process as it is.  I appreciate the well expressed opinions as to why it should change but after careful reading and consideration do not find them compelling.  As always I'm open as the Moderator of the LMRB to any and all suggestions at any time as things do change. The name has taken on a meaning of its own so I would hesitate to change that.  The day will come when new rules are in order and, provided that Brian agrees as he holds the ultimate say, it will be changed.  Now is not that time.



I agree it works for many as is - but ....

I would suggest periodic adjustments for inflation, $700 bucks just isn't what it used to be.

Just curious how long has it been at that $700 level?


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## timeos2 (Jul 1, 2011)

ampaholic said:


> I agree it works for many as is - but ....
> 
> I would suggest periodic adjustments for inflation, $700 bucks just isn't what it used to be.
> 
> Just curious how long has it been at that $700 level?



That was the original amount when we got serious about the idea (around 2001 as I recall).  Back then it was on the high end of fees but it wasn't based on that but rather the idea of a "value" rental.  We never anticipated so many being offered at the maximum amount - early on there were many at $300-$400. regularly.  

There will be a time when we need to raise it (I'd still like an easy to deal with number like $875 - $125 per night) but really, as I said, we still have so many that go unclaimed that raising now during a period of deeply depressed rental values throughout the timeshare world doesn't seem to make sense. But when things (hopefully) at least stabilize and maybe even recover a bit that may be the next number to move to.  In any case I want it to stay a true value for those that take it and a help in recovering at least some of their costs for those that make the offers.  That, not the average maintenance fee, is the driver.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 2, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> As for the price that always amuses me. We have some truly great weeks / resorts show quite regularly within the $700 max ($100/night) limits - most of those are at a considerable discount from the annual fee paid. Yet what often happens? They don't rent!  In fact it is very common to see posts cutting the price even further - often for prime, Holiday use - and STILL no takers!  Since they don't rent at the current limit how does it make sense that they would be more likely to at even higher asking prices? While we used to have an active member that said if your week didn't sell raise your price that advice didn't really seem to work well.



What it comes down to is people want to think what they are offering is worth more than it really is. Go to a garage sale or check out classified adds. Some (most?) of the asking prices are absurd. People want to make as much as they can, but as you pointed out much of it goes unsold (unrented). Is it better to sell 20 items for $1 or one for $10?

If someone can rent something for more than $700 at 45 days out, more power to them. There are plenty of places to do so. The draw of the LMR board is the low rates. If it were a free for all or even a $1000 limit, you would see many units listed at $1000 and even more would go unrented.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 2, 2011)

ronparise said:


> I appreciate the history lesson but if every discussion was ended with a comment like ..."we've discussed that before" we would have little to talk about indeed..There would be no need for the form letter thats posted ever time someone brings up selling their timeshare
> 
> and I respect the rules, and I like that there is a place to give away my week if I want to and advertise it for rent if I would rather do that.
> 
> ...





Ridewithme38 said:


> Sometimes a new perspective can change the whole direction of previous discussions, every person has different experiences, which leads to a different opinions and expertise people and their 'reality' are as different as snow flakes ...It's understandable not wanting to re-hash things that have been discussed before...but i don't think new people and their thoughts, ideas and/of beliefs should be discouraged or shut down because some has been talked about
> 
> I wasn't around for previous discussions on this topic...but with everyone's experiences differing so much....why not always keep the conversation open...who knows what can be learned?





ampaholic said:


> I agree it works for many as is - but ....
> 
> I would suggest periodic adjustments for inflation, $700 bucks just isn't what it used to be.
> 
> Just curious how long has it been at that $700 level?


If you want to reopen discussion I suggest you open a thread in the "About TUG BBS" forum.  I don't think anyone is stopping you from initiating discussion of the topic, save yourselves.


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## geoand (Jul 2, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Sometimes a new perspective can change the whole direction of previous discussions, every person has different experiences, which leads to a different opinions and expertise people and their 'reality' are as different as snow flakes ...It's understandable not wanting to re-hash things that have been discussed before...but i don't think new people and their thoughts, ideas and/of beliefs should be discouraged or shut down because some has been talked about
> 
> I wasn't around for previous discussions on this topic...but with everyone's experiences differing so much....why not always keep the conversation open...who knows what can be learned?



I don't see anyone trying to discourage discussion of this subject.  However, when I read statements such as the following, I see someone trying to discourage disagreeing the person making these statements
"This "Its my ball you play by my rules" attitude is what dislike the most here on TUG." or
"The powers that be and "in crowd" here refuse to consider suggestions from the rest of us" or
"It would be nice to find a place where there could be open discussion of ideas without the old guard taking constructive criticism as a personal insult...but its not here".

This thread has gone on for several weeks.  So, this is an example of not having an open discussion?

Ride, one of the things you have learned is not to take cheap shots at posters.  If all would post as you have learned, their points might carry more weight.


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## am1 (Jul 2, 2011)

I would think that raising the limit would benefit people in 3 ways.

Better inventory would be added to the LMR board.  I am sure we can all agree on that.

The good inventory that is currently added to the LMR Board would be added earlier.  I am sure most people with very good weeks now do everything they can to rent elsewhere for more than $700. Then at the real last minute add it to the LMR board.  What good is adding a great week/resort with a few days to check in.  The sooner inventory is added the better.  

The last thing is once better inventory is added and added sooner it would push down the prices people are asking for a lot of the stuff that is currently listed.  If people currently are listing a 2 bedroom at a resort for $700 and I am able and do list a 3 bedroom for the same week at the new max of $875 that is going to put pressure on the person with the 2 bedroom at $700.  They will have to lower their price to be competitive with mine.  That way Ride can get his Motel 6 price for a motel 6 quality room.  

Best solution is to set the max based on room size.  Not prefect but better than the not broken way it currently is.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 2, 2011)

am1 said:


> That way Ride can get his Motel 6 price for a motel 6 quality room.
> 
> Best solution is to set the max based on room size.  Not prefect but better than the not broken way it currently is.



Who wan't motel 6 quality? i expect 4 seasons or marriot quality for, at or below $700...that is, if you don't want to have your timeshare go to waste not being used....

I never understood the logic behind, 'well if i can't get this price for it, i might as well get nothing and let the room stay empty' isn't getting even $50 that you can apply to your MF better then getting nothing?

you guys have to understand with LMR, we are doing *you* a favor by renting it...people aren't looking there because they have a vacation planned and need a room...they are looking for low prices that they can build a vacation around...if the prices aren't low enough to drop everything and go...nothings ever going to be rented from there....i'm not against raising it to match MF's(with the amount of members here....we pretty much know most MF's or can look them up)...but thinking you should be making a profit off of LMR is just silly


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## MOXJO7282 (Jul 2, 2011)

ampaholic said:


> I agree it works for many as is - but ....
> 
> I would suggest periodic adjustments for inflation, $700 bucks just isn't what it used to be.
> 
> Just curious how long has it been at that $700 level?



I have never considered listing my weeks or using LMR but this to me is the most salient point IMHO. What other price anywhere since 2001 has stayed flat? This in itself should dictate an adjustment.


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## timeos2 (Jul 2, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I have never considered listing my weeks or using LMR but this to me is the most salient point IMHO. What other price anywhere since 2001 has stayed flat? This in itself should dictate an adjustment.



Rental values of timeshares have followed a path closer to the prices of LCD flat screen TV's  since 2001 (sharply downward) than gasoline (dramatically up).  So if the price trend sets the rate we should be lowering the threshold not raising it. Since maintenance fees were not the basis what they have done (see gasoline) doesn't apply.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 2, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I have never considered listing my weeks or using LMR but this to me is the most salient point IMHO. What other price anywhere since 2001 has stayed flat? This in itself should dictate an adjustment.





> What Causes Inflation?
> 
> Monetary inflation happens when the amount of money in circulation increases faster than the quantity of goods in circulation.



The thing is, hotel rooms and vacation lodging have actually been going through a period of DEFLATION....the demand just hasn't been keeping up with the inventory so hotels and other vacation lodging prices have been going DOWN in price in the last few years....With timeshares it harder to measure this....but you can tell the demand is down just by looking at the number of rentals on LMR that don't get rented...even the amount of $1 timeshares that don't get sold on Ebay...We even had a thread about this recently....

I still think we should lower the price...but i understand people not wanting to rent for less then MF's (they would be admiting they are paying more then their place is worth) thats why i've put that up as an option


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 2, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> we pretty much know most MF's or can look them up)...but thinking you should be making a profit off of LMR is just silly


Is that you that I hear you volunteering to assemble data on maintenance fees for resorts, update the list to ensure that the information is current,  and then police the LMR board to ensure that the prices asked are no more than the maintenance fees??


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 2, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Is that you that I hear you volunteering to assemble data on maintenance fees for resorts, update the list to ensure that the information is current,  and then police the LMR board to ensure that the prices asked are no more than the maintenance fees??



You don't think the members themselves will police the board? IF the rule of the LMR is that you can't charge more then the MF's...i think if people see a post where the Rent is too high...they'll report it...i know i would...i don't see any reason why a specific list needs to be made, or keep updated...the lists are held in bits and pieces between every member of this forum


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## tombo (Jul 2, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I never understood the logic behind, 'well if i can't get this price for it, i might as well get nothing and let the room stay empty' isn't getting even $50 that you can apply to your MF better then getting nothing?
> 
> you guys have to understand with LMR, we are doing *you* a favor by renting it...people aren't looking there because they have a vacation planned and need a room...they are looking for low prices that they can build a vacation around...if the prices aren't low enough to drop everything and go...nothings ever going to be rented from there....



Hold on a minute. I am in agreement with Ride? I must be asleep and can't wake up. Did someone slip me a Mickey? Am I having an allergic reaction?

Apparently not. We are in agreement.


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## tombo (Jul 2, 2011)

am1 said:


> I would think that raising the limit would benefit people in 3 ways.
> 
> Better inventory would be added to the LMR board.  I am sure we can all agree on that..



I agree there might be some better inventory added, but why change it to get more inventory. There are more weeks going unrented there than TUGGERS will ever snap up. I am talking Aruba, Maui, Marriotts, etc, etc, etc listed on LMR with many never receiving an offer. Supply is already exceeding demand. More supply would lower prices even further for those listing on LMR.



am1 said:


> The good inventory that is currently added to the LMR Board would be added earlier.  I am sure most people with very good weeks now do everything they can to rent elsewhere for more than $700. Then at the real last minute add it to the LMR board.  What good is adding a great week/resort with a few days to check in.  The sooner inventory is added the better.  .



LMR is 45 days or less. Anyone serious about renting their weeks ahve listed them for months prior to 45 days before check in on other sites, and the week has not rented. Any of us looking to rent a week for more than $700 know where to look. Quick list of places you can list a week for rent for any price you want as far ahead of ceck in as you want: TUG rentals, Redweek, Myresort network, VRBO, Craigs list, E-bay,regional boards, mini boards, Travelocity, Priceline, etc, etc, etc, etc. Places I know of where you can offer weeks for rent or rent weeks for $100 or less no sooner than 45 days in advance is ONLY LMR. That is the draw. To raise the listing price to current MF's, $150 a night, etc, etc, takes away it's main attraction.



am1 said:


> The last thing is once better inventory is added and added sooner it would push down the prices people are asking for a lot of the stuff that is currently listed.  If people currently are listing a 2 bedroom at a resort for $700 and I am able and do list a 3 bedroom for the same week at the new max of $875 that is going to put pressure on the person with the 2 bedroom at $700.  They will have to lower their price to be competitive with mine.  That way Ride can get his Motel 6 price for a motel 6 quality room. .



You want to raise limits so you can list your last minute weeks for high prices pushing every one else's prices down? If your week is in that much demand it will not still be available for rent 45 days in advance. I don't know where you own but the fact is that in this rental market your week might not rent for $700 even if it is a 3 bed room at 45 days out or less. Rental prices in this economy are way down, last minute rentals mainly rent from bargain hunters looking for a deal. If it isn't cheap they simply pass.  



am1 said:


> Best solution is to set the max based on room size.  Not prefect but better than the not broken way it currently is.



See to most LMR is not broken. It was set up long before I joined TUG when rental prices were HIGHER than they are now at most locations. If they were following the trends the max allowed would be reduced.

I own and rent out close to 20 weeks a year. The last 2 years have been the lowest prices I have received for MOST of my weeks in the 10 years I have been doing this. Renters DO NOT CARE how much our MF's are or how much we think our week is worth. They are looking for the cheapest price they can find. If you look at Redweek there are owners offering their weeks for rent for "cheap" prices at virtually every resort and virtually every location. 

Bargain hunters do not have to wait until 45 days or less for bargains, they are available 6 months to a year in advance on Redweek, Craigslist, E-bay, etc, etc, etc. With very little effort I can rent weeks from owners at almost any location and almost any resort for the cost of annual MF's or less, and so can anyone else by simply doing a little computer searching and simply by making low offers to owners until one accepts it. 

There are plenty of web sites where renters can comparison shop and make offers. The singularly unique site that only has listings for $100 a night max and no sooner than 45 days out is LMR . To change either of those requirements would take away the only things separating LMR from the 100 other web rental sites and reduce viewings and rentals in MHO.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jul 2, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> You don't think the members themselves will police the board? IF the rule of the LMR is that you can't charge more then the MF's...i think if people see a post where the Rent is too high...they'll report it...i know i would...i don't see any reason why a specific list needs to be made, or keep updated...the lists are held in bits and pieces between every member of this forum



FWIW - the price limit on the LMR board was $500 when I joined TUG 11 years ago.  It's was raised to $700 about six years ago, after a discussion very similar to this one.


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## ronparise (Jul 2, 2011)

tombo said:


> There are plenty of web sites where renters can comaprison shop and make offers. The unique site that only has listings for $100 a night max and no sooner than 45 days out is LMR . To change either of those requirements would take away the only things separating LMR from the 100 other web rental sites and reduce viewings and rentals.  JMHO.



Im convinced

My assumptions have been corrected..I now see the LMR forum for what it is, not for what I wanted it to be


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 2, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> FWIW - the price limit on the LMR board was $500 when I joined TUG 11 years ago.  It's was raised to $700 about six years ago, after a discussion very similar to this one.



IF the MF thing isn't possible, or brings in too many possible problems....I'm also in support of bringing it back down to $500 or $525($75 a night)


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## ampaholic (Jul 2, 2011)

*hummmmmm*



timeos2 said:


> Rental values of timeshares have followed a path closer to the prices of LCD flat screen TV's  since 2001 (sharply downward) than gasoline (dramatically up).  So if the price trend sets the rate we should be lowering the threshold not raising it. Since maintenance fees were not the basis what they have done (see gasoline) doesn't apply.



Maybe I should revise my statement in light of John's insightful comment:



ampaholic said:


> .... I would suggest periodic adjustments for inflation, $700 bucks just isn't what it used to be....



I would suggest periodic adjustments for inflation/deflation, $700 bucks just isn't what it used to be....

Or - how about a split (like a stock split) into two halves. one half stays at $700 limit (or even lower to $600).

The other half goes "unlimited" as to price asked. Both retain the 45 day limit. 

I for one would like a last minute week at Ko'olina or WKORV


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## scrapngen (Jul 2, 2011)

ampaholic said:


> Maybe I should revise my statement in light of John's insightful comment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would you REALLY?? want a last minute week at Ko'olina or WKORV at an "unlimited" price??  I bet there are several TUGgers willing to accommodate you!!  :rofl: :rofl:


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## JudyS (Jul 2, 2011)

I just recently found this thread!  Not sure why it is in the TUG Lounge rather than on the Buying, Selling, Renting forum.



Ridewithme38 said:


> Do you really believe anything is worth more then $100 a night with less then 45 days notice? Doesn't RCI even rent things out for under $300 at that point? thats less then $50 a night...and we know how greedy they are!


I want to clear up a misconception for Tuggers who maybe don't rent often. The rental market is very, very different from the exchange market in that renters tend to plan much later than exchangers. Unless a resort is on an island (in which case people plan ahead and buy airfare), a LOT of renters book less than 30 days out. 

For my points & floating week resorts, I get swamped with requests I can't fill because the renter wants to check in within the next few weeks (or even the next few days) and the resort is fully booked. In fact, just today I had a potential renter who was upset when I told him that nothing was available for the rest of July. "But your Redweek ad says your ownership floats all year!" (This was at a resort with such demand for July that owners line up in person at 5 am, exactly a year in advance, to book July 4th weeks. There have even been fist-fights over who was in line first!  )  I've started putting a notice in my ads saying that I probably can't get anything in peak season less than 30 days out. Lots of people write and ask anyway. (Including the guy who wrote today -- my ad said clearly that summer weeks are very unlikely to be available at this point.) 

While RCI does rent some inventory very cheaply less than 45 days out, this is mostly surplus inventory to begin with. You'll see a lot of Orlando and Branson on Last Call, but you won't see prime summer beach weeks (at least, I never have.) 

I actually think many timeshare weeks would rent for WAY more than what owners ask, if only there were a more efficient market for timeshare rentals and more of the general public knew they were available. Perhaps this will happen in the future. (Not that I'm holding my breath, although I AM holding a lot of deeds!  :rofl: ) Saying "Your week must only have  a fair market value of $300 if that's all it rents for" really isn't true, because that statement assumes an efficient market, and the timeshare rental market is far from efficient. 

As for low ball offers, I tend to be bothered more by the TONE of some of them than I am by the amount. If I'm advertising something at $700 and someone says, "Sounds like a nice place, but I can only offer $300," I generally don't mind. (Although I also generally won't rent it to them for that price, either. If I was willing to take $300 at that point, I would have already dropped the asking price to $450 or below.) 

What bugs me are people who send an email implying that my condo isn't worth much, and maybe my time isn't worth much, either. A few years back, I had a primo California summer week still empty the day of check-in. I had dropped the price to around $400. A guy emailed and said, "I'll give you $150," and when I countered with $300 he said, "You have to take my $150 offer, or else your condo will sit empty." Actually, no, I didn't HAVE to take his offer. I let it sit empty. 

There is in fact good evidence that people who don't pay much don't value what they receive, which I think is a risk when it comes to renting. (Plus, I think rude people are more likely to trash a place.) I generally won't rent anything for less than $200 a week unless the person asking is very, very nice. This goes even for places where my MF is only $325 a week.


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## am1 (Jul 2, 2011)

JudyS I agree with everything you have said.


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## ampaholic (Jul 2, 2011)

*long ball home run*



am1 said:


> JudyS I agree with everything you have said.



me too, I would ad that before you let one sit empty consider donating it to the wounded warriors:



> WARRIORS AND CAREGIVERS: CONTACT US TODAY!
> To contact the Resource Center, call 888.WWP.ALUM (997.2586) or email us at  resourcecenter@woundedwarriorproject.org. Please note that the Center is open Monday - Thursday from 9:00am to 5:00pm EST and Friday from 10:00am to 5:00pm EST. If this is a crisis, please contact the VA Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255) and press 1 for veterans assistance.
> 
> Read more: http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/content/view/1203/1165/#ixzz1Qz72n5wC


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## ronparise (Jul 2, 2011)

JudyS said:


> a LOT of renters book less than 30 days out.
> 
> For my points & floating week resorts, I get swamped with requests I can't fill because the renter wants to check in within the next few weeks (or even the next few days) and the resort is fully booked.
> 
> ...




Thanks for confirming with your vast experience what has been my limited experience

A more efficient market is what I had in mind (in my dreams) for tug to help provide


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## stevedmatt (Jul 2, 2011)

JudyS said:


> I want to clear up a misconception for Tuggers who maybe don't rent often. The rental market is very, very different from the exchange market in that renters tend to plan much later than exchangers. Unless a resort is on an island (in which case people plan ahead and buy airfare), a LOT of renters book less than 30 days out.



I don't fully buy this either. I have done some condo rentals. Weekly summer rentals at the NJ shore book 2+ months in advance. I had every prime summer week at one condo rented by March 1st this year, well over 3 months in advance. And I guarantee none of them are booking airfare to come here. 

While this is still a much shorter term than timeshare exchanges, I have never rented a prime week less than 30 days in advance, and have rarely rented a non prime week in that time frame. 

I also rarely make concessions off of my starting price.


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## regatta333 (Jul 2, 2011)

I also am with Judy on this one.   This year has been my best ever for rentals, and with the exception of one repeat renter, everything else has rented within 30 days of check-in.  Just today, I got two inquiries for someone looking for a 4th of July check-in.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jul 2, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> Rental values of timeshares have followed a path closer to the prices of LCD flat screen TV's  since 2001 (sharply downward) than gasoline (dramatically up).  So if the price trend sets the rate we should be lowering the threshold not raising it. Since maintenance fees were not the basis what they have done (see gasoline) doesn't apply.



MFs have not. I think a reasonable adjustment would be max rental is MFs fees. This would be more acceptable to the owner and the renter would still be getting a great deal.  Why should it be the renter who only makes out. It should be more balanced.

Also many of the LMR weeks I see don't even have MFs of $700 so some renters are profitting from the $700 limit.

If you made it MFs it would be very easy to police as well as there would always be another tugger who could validate the MFs

I would bet that is you asked most they would agree with that but TUG is not a democracy (not saying it should be) where things are voted on so it is what it is.


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## timeos2 (Jul 2, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> MFs have not. I think a reasonable adjustment would be max rental is MFs fees. This would be more acceptable to the owner and the renter would still be getting a great deal.  Why should it be the renter who only makes out. It should be more balanced.
> 
> Also many of the LMR weeks I see don't even have MFs of $700 so some renters are profitting from the $700 limit.
> 
> ...





tombo said:


> There are plenty of web sites where renters can comparison shop and make  offers. The singularly unique site that only has listings for $100 a  night max and no sooner than 45 days out is LMR . To change either of  those requirements would take away the only things separating LMR from  the 100 other web rental sites and reduce viewings and rentals in  MHO.



That second quote sums it up best. The uniqueness and the intent of the LMRB.  It is not, never was, meant to a money maker, a regular place to rent  your time, a place to get at least the annual fee back or anything other  than a place to find a good value (deal) on a rental that very well may  be too close to the use date to command full value.  No one has to post  there and it seems we get plenty of great offers to rent within the  current set of rules. 

The last poll we did do supported the current status and the use level,  based on total posts, has never been higher. All in all it is working as  designed and thus needs no tweaks at this time IMO.


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## JudyS (Jul 3, 2011)

ampaholic said:


> me too, I would ad that before you let one sit empty consider donating it to the wounded warriors:


Thanks for the information you posted, Rick. I'm also thinking The Wounded Warriors project might be a good use for extra exchange credits, since exchanges can be donated but not rented. 



I said that lots of timeshare rent less than 30 days out, and Stevedmatt said:





stevedmatt said:


> I don't fully buy this either. I have done some condo rentals. Weekly summer rentals at the NJ shore book 2+ months in advance. I had every prime summer week at one condo rented by March 1st this year, well over 3 months in advance. And I guarantee none of them are booking airfare to come here.
> 
> While this is still a much shorter term than timeshare exchanges, I have never rented a prime week less than 30 days in advance, and have rarely rented a non prime week in that time frame.
> 
> I also rarely make concessions off of my starting price.


Stevedmatt, where do you advertise your rentals? I'm guessing the difference here is that there are better developed markets for Jersey Shore condos than there are for timeshares. For decades, there have been newspaper ads and rental agencies that handle Jersey Shore houses and condos, and a lot of people know where to look. Timeshare rentals by private owners seem to mostly have become available in the past few years, and many people don't know they exist. I suspect a lot of my rentals are to people who looked for a hotel last-minute, couldn't find anything (at least not in their price range) and checked Craigslist or eBay in desperation for any sort of place to stay, without previously realizing it was possible to even rent a timeshare. Clearly, a lot of the people I rent to are unfamiliar with timeshares. I've had people ask if the units are cleaned between guests, and whether they need to bring their own sheets. Just today, I had one of my renters call me and ask if they needed to bring their own pots & pans. 

Also, do you list your condos anywhere that would also be suitable for timeshares? Do you use VRBO? (I've been thinking of using them, but their listing price is steep if you just own a few weeks at a particular place.) I would love to find other places to list my timeshares that cater more to people who plan in advance. Currently, I'm using TUG (regular and LMR), Craigslist, eBay, and Redweek. I do get some people asking in advance off of Redweek, but I don't get that many inquiries from them.


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## timeflies (Jul 3, 2011)

When I rent a week for cheap I always worry that the guest will not take care of the unit.  I take care of the things I buy.  I was always taught that by my parents and I try to instll that into my daughter.  However, I have noticed a lack of care in taking care of their things by some folks.

For instance, there was this lady that worked in the school system.  She and her family were very poor.  The husband and kids each received social security checks.  The lady was a hard worker.  I sold her my mother in laws car 2 years ago.  It was a 1986 model with 21,000 miles on it.  The interior was mint condition and it ran good.   I sold it to her for less than it was worth because the family needed a car.  I was trying to help her out.  In less than 2 weeks the interior of the car was tore up and the outside was all banged up.  It was never serviced.   They were very rough on the car and in less than a year it was destroyed.  I always worry some will do the same with the units.


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## stevedmatt (Jul 3, 2011)

JudyS said:


> Stevedmatt, where do you advertise your rentals? I'm guessing the difference here is that there are better developed markets for Jersey Shore condos than there are for timeshares.



You bring up a valid point. VRBO is a great resource for us. It is also a source for low ballers. I am often solicited in the middle of winter by people trying to low ball a 3, 4 or 5 week stay during prime season. I refuse to reduce the cost of my prime weeks more than the housekeepers fee as I know these weeks will rent for full price eventually. 

We also advertize though local realtors but raise the price through them to cover the 12% commission. I have had no luck through Craigslist, have never tried EBay and have had 2 last last minute rentals (within 30 days) in the off season through TUG.


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## Egret1986 (Jul 3, 2011)

*I agree, this is also a concern of mine.*



timeflies said:


> When I rent a week for cheap I always worry that the guest will not take care of the unit.   I always worry some will do the same with the units.



Rather than rent for a crazy-low price, I'll come up with another option.

I know this is probably flawed thinking.  Folks can pay your listed price and still not take care of it.


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## Bellatrix (Jul 3, 2011)

Egret1986 said:


> Rather than rent for a crazy-low price, I'll come up with another option.
> 
> I know this is probably flawed thinking.  Folks can pay your listed price and still not take care of it.


that can happen but, as a rule if they're spending a larger amount of money - they are generally more respectful of property.  In 4 years of renting my vacation property for $1600 per week I have had only one 'family' desecrate my condo.


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