# lifetime spg platinum status



## polarbear (May 17, 2008)

Hi,

I'm a big fan of the starwood points program (gold level), but never worked with timeshares before and am pretty new to all this on the villa/vacation network side of things. We went to a presentation at the Westin Maui, and they mentioned a lifetime platinum status for spg which would give you best room upgrades for life (suites).

They were saying it would take four weeks @ $55k a week for the westin kauai to get the platinum and elite status, and that one week would translate into 95k starwood points each year per week (plus an incentive of 600k points signing bonus).

For us, the idea of going to kauai year after year isn't that appealing, but getting ~400k starwood points and platinum status is very appealing (and still going to hawaii every now and then).

I'd be interested in any feedback or thoughts on this. Specifically if you can rent the rooms and make any decent return, and what sort of appreciation/depreciation you could expect on the investment? Very new to timeshares in general, so not sure how it all works.

Thanks!


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## DeniseM (May 17, 2008)

Welcome to TUG!     For an overview of Starwood, please see the FAQ at the top of the forum.  

Buying timeshare weeks from the developer just to reach Plat status would not be worth it in my opinion.  Timeshares depreciate dramatically -  We paid about $45K for our Maui 2 bdm. preconstruction, and now the same unit is selling for less then $30K resale.  Our unit is virtually identical to the one they want to sell you for $55K!  

We can rent it for about $3,500, but that's far less than what Starwood gets, and our maintenance fee is $1,600 a year.  The maintenance fee on the new units is $1,775, per year, so you would be paying $7,100 per year, just in maintenance fees!  

WKORV-N chart 

Maintenance fees in Hawaii have increased dramatically every year that we have owned our timeshare:

WKORV:
2006 $ 1,315.84
2007 $ 1,418.27 (7.8% increase)
2008 $ 1,599.29 (12.7% increase)

I wouldn't buy any timeshare unless I was primarily interested in _timesharing_ - buying with the intention of converting to Starpoints all the time doesn't make economic sense.  

The people who have reached 5 Star Plat for the least amount of money bought resale weeks and requalified them with developer weeks.  I believe SDKath did it for around $55K* total* - 1/4 the price that Starwood offered to you!


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## pointsjunkie (May 17, 2008)

welcome to TUG.this subject is spoken of very often here. just browse through all the threads and you will get the knowledge you need to make a decision.

you do not need to spend all that money purchasing from the developer. there are many other resorts in the starwood system that can be bought resale. 
if you bought 2 resale weeks each worth 148100 staroptions and then purchased 2 weeks from starwood and you tell the, to requalify them you will save tons of money and it will get you to 5* elite. you will only get starpoints for the 2 developer weeks as a sales incentive but then the others would be in the SVN and you would have all the benefits as if you purchased all of them from the developer.

first , do you have the starwood american express? if you do then when you purchase the developer weeks and pay the maintenance fees with the card you will get double starpoints. if you don't have the card and you are seriously considering purchased items over $15000 in a 6 month period then there is a special amex card which you can find the thread on under starwood amex.


these places all have resales and have units worth 148100 staroptions.

westin mission hills 2 br lock-out platinum week in palm springs
westin kierland village 2 br l/o  platinum week in scottsdale az
hawaii mauii and princeville
harborside at the atlantis 2 br l/o plat week in the bahamas
westin st john
sheraton desert oasis 2 br l/o starwood platinum ( not 1-52)
westin lagunamar in cancun 2 br l/o platinum
sheraton mountain vista 2 br l/o platinum week in colorado

as you can see you have choices. you have to decide where you would like to go most often. buy where you want to go.

timeshares do not appreciate in value. they will sell pennies on the dollar.
so if you purchase 2 from a resale you will save thousand of dollars and then you can requalify them with the high priced developer week. 

another suggestion is to ask sdkath how she got to 5 * for a very reasonable amount of $$$.she is the queen.

the program is great. i have owned with starwood since 2001 and it changed the way we travel for ever. we just became 5*  and we have had 3 great upgrades so far. 3 for 3. not bad.

the people here are very knowledgeable and will save you thousand of dollars.









westin mission hills in palm springs


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## Troopers (May 17, 2008)

Yeah, ask SDkath.

SDkath, can you write a cliff note's guide to become 5* for cheap?


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## DavidnRobin (May 17, 2008)

Our esteemed Mod is getting WPORV and WKORV/N mixed up (too much fun?)
The OP was talking about buying Maui (not Kauai).
I just saw on MSC for the first time our projected MFs for WPORV (EOY odd) - $1009 - different than posted - not sure which is correct - or if SVN fees have anything to do with the difference (or they are just wrong on MSC).  Or... the special resort fee for being in Princeville and Hotel usage...

I don't recall soemone mention what their MFs at WPORV were (for those EOY even or EY owners - was it in the MF thread?

I will be very happy if they are $1009 - maybe the difference is the lack of swim up bar...


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## DeniseM (May 17, 2008)

Oh Geez - I am goofy today!  Thanks David - I will take all the help I can get!

Unfortunately I am not having any fun at all - I'm grading papers and I'm just about cross-eyed! 

And I will edit my post! 

Duh-nise


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## SDKath (May 17, 2008)

R Chen said:


> Yeah, ask SDkath.
> 
> SDkath, can you write a cliff note's guide to become 5* for cheap?



Ok, ok, I will work on one this weekend since there seems to be such popular demand.     In the meantime though, search the boards for Maria's (myip) and Barbra's (pointsjunkie) posts.  They are the TRUE queens of 5* for cheap.  I am just a well studied pupil.  I didn't do anything radical or different -- just took their advice.

  Katherine


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## pointsjunkie (May 17, 2008)

SDKath said:


> Ok, ok, I will work on one this weekend since there seems to be such popular demand.     In the meantime though, search the boards for Barbra's posts (myip).  She is the TRUE queen of 5* for cheap.  I am just a well studied pupil of hers.  I didn't do anything radical or different -- just took her advice.
> 
> Katherine



that's maria's post(myip) barbra is pointsjunkie


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## SDKath (May 17, 2008)

OOOOOPs.  Sorry!  To both of you.   

I think we will just have to meet in person sometime so I can keep everyone straight.     I corrected my post above.   

So Barbra, can I email you what I wrote up about 5* and see what you think?  PM me your addy if it's ok.  

Katherine


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## pointsjunkie (May 18, 2008)

sent it to you.


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## duke (May 18, 2008)

If you want to get to 5*ELITE and SPG Platinum for Life for the purpose of converting to SPG StarPoints then I would start with purchasing 2 SMV 2B/R L/O Platinum RESALE.  SMV offers the highest StarPoints conversion (plus 10%) for 5*ELITES at the lowest Maintenance Fees.

When you consider the low Resale purchase price and the low Maintenance Fees along with the highest number of StarPoints for conversion plus the extra 10% for Elites and the SPG additional 25% for transferring to airline points ....... Sheraton Mountain Vista 2 b/r L/O Platinum is your best purchase.

Calculate how many airline points you get per maintenance fee dollar and you will be very surprised at what a great deal it is!

(85,800 starpoints plus 10% = 94,380 StarPoints times 1.25 = 117,975 frequent flyer miles)
(Maintenance fees = $1,050)
--> $0.009 per mile  **Less that 1 cent per mile**
flyertalkers would love that!

duke


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## LisaRex (May 18, 2008)

Some things to keep in mind:

1) Platinum for Life is a bit of a misnomer - it's really platinum for as long as you keep your TSs.  

2) Starwood can always add tiers (e.g. Diamond) above Platinum which could diminish the value of being platinum. 

3) SVO does not adjust StarPoints for inflation so the years immediately following your becoming a 5* elite are the years you'll realize the max value from the program.  If you can convert 500k StarOptions to 250k StarPoints today, in 10 years you will STILL only receive 250k StarPoints.  And that will buy you less and less each over time as both hotel and airlines increase the number of points required to book rooms and flights.  So the return on investment will DECREASE over time, while your MFs will INCREASE.  

4) SVO owners can only convert to StarPoints every other year. (Or do elite members get that waived? ETA - Never mind. 3,4 and 5* elites can convert every year.)  Something to keep in mind.

5) Starwood is aggressively marketing our resorts to SPG members, for cash & points or StarPoints.  So people who hope to rent out their units for cash are coming against some real competition from Starwood itself.  When I can book a 2 bdrm villa in Orlando or a studio in Maui direct from Starwood for 12k StarPoints a night with the ability to cancel the reservation 48 hours before arrival, why in the world would I rent from an owner?  So if you do intend to rent out your unit, my advice is buy something unique (e.g oceanfront during high season) that only owners can offer. 

5)Starwood recently announced that they could limit the number of StarOption ->StarPoint conversions if they receive too many requests.  So they reserve the right to deny your request to convert to StarPoints.  That is another reason why buying at one of the cheaper properties might not be a great idea. 

If you travel a LOT, esp. to Europe, working the SVO system to become PfL could actually make financial sense, especially in the short term.  However, I would definitely crunch some numbers, using realistic models (e.g building in 10% increase in MFs each year, building in 25% StarPoint inflation every 4-5 years, building in financing costs associated with buying 5 TSs) to consider whether the outlay of cash would be worth the benefits you may or may not receive (remember that suite upgrades are subject to availability). 

Good luck with your decision and happy traveling.


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## twz (May 18, 2008)

LisaRex said:


> Some things to keep in mind:
> 
> 4) SVO owners can only convert to StarPoints every other year. (Or do elite members get that waived?)  Something to keep in mind.



Elite members can convert every year.


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## SDKath (May 18, 2008)

What is the 10% bonus, duke?  Is that only at SMV?  Why is there a bonus?  I have not heard of this before but then again, you learn something new here everyday.  

Katherine


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## LisaRex (May 18, 2008)

SDKath said:


> What is the 10% bonus, duke?  Is that only at SMV?  Why is there a bonus?  I have not heard of this before but then again, you learn something new here everyday.
> 
> Katherine



10% conversion bonus is one of the benefits of being a 4 or 5 star elite. 

https://www.mystarcentral.com/elite/chart.html


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## LisaRex (May 18, 2008)

twz said:


> Elite members can convert every year.



Thanks twz.  I changed my post accordingly.


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## SDKath (May 18, 2008)

No kidding!  I missed that nice little bonus.    That chart should be a sticky for owner resources, I would think.  It's easy to read.

Did I read incorrectly that the $109 II SVN fee is also waived for 5*?  I don't see that on the table.

Katherine


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## DeniseM (May 18, 2008)

SDKath said:


> That chart should be a sticky for owner resources, I would think.


*
DONE!*  

Now I have to write more, because my post was too short...


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## Henry M. (May 18, 2008)

SDKath said:


> No kidding!  I missed that nice little bonus.    That chart should be a sticky for owner resources, I would think.  It's easy to read.
> 
> Did I read incorrectly that the $109 II SVN fee is also waived for 5*?  I don't see that on the table.
> 
> Katherine



The fee is indeed waived.


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## pointsjunkie (May 18, 2008)

we had to pay $129 for 2 of the ownerships the rest were not charged the $129.


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## polarbear (May 18, 2008)

duke said:


> If you want to get to 5*ELITE and SPG Platinum for Life for the purpose of converting to SPG StarPoints then I would start with purchasing 2 SMV 2B/R L/O Platinum RESALE.  SMV offers the highest StarPoints conversion (plus 10%) for 5*ELITES at the lowest Maintenance Fees.
> 
> When you consider the low Resale purchase price and the low Maintenance Fees along with the highest number of StarPoints for conversion plus the extra 10% for Elites and the SPG additional 25% for transferring to airline points ....... Sheraton Mountain Vista 2 b/r L/O Platinum is your best purchase.
> 
> ...



Wow, thanks everyone for the detailed replies, very helpful! I didn't realize the quick drop in resale price, that really changes things. 

A couple questions:

1. Why do people consider converting to spg points a bad deal? Taking the example above, for one week I could get 95k points which could be four to six nights at a good hotel, and if you are platinum, then you are staying in a suite, potentially a $1k a night room. That sounds pretty good for a $1k maint fee (although it depends on depreciation of your initial investment). 

2. How does the platinum for life works? Is it just tied to a 5* elite status (i.e. once you reach 5* elite then you get spg platinum)? 

3. In order to get the 5* elite, is it true I need to buy a single week from the developer, and then three weeks resale, and ensure that the developer retro's those three weeks into the program? Or is their another way to go?

Thanks again, lots more reading to do! =)


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## polarbear (May 18, 2008)

Oh, one more thing. Is there a system to rent weeks out? Or is it up to the owner to rent it out themselves. If I rent it out to a stranger via craigslist or something, am I responsible for that person, or is it just like a regular hotel visit? Do people see a good rate of return from rentals after taking maint into consideration?


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## DeniseM (May 18, 2008)

polarbear said:


> Wow, thanks everyone for the detailed replies, very helpful! I didn't realize the quick drop in resale price, that really changes things.
> 
> A couple questions:
> 
> 1. Why do people consider converting to spg points a bad deal? Taking the example above, for one week I could get 95k points which could be four to six nights at a good hotel, and if you are platinum, then you are staying in a suite, potentially a $1k a night room. That sounds pretty good for a $1k maint fee (although it depends on depreciation of your initial investment).



The top Starwood hotels are 20K points a night, and they keep raising them yearly, but the timeshare owners don't get any increase to keep up with the hotel Starpoint "cost."  So every year, Starpoints are worth less.

Then there is the life style question - many people (me) will never stay in a $1K a night hotel, but I love the Starpoints I earn for free with my AMEX and convert to airfare for tickets to Hawaii every summer.  Since I  just own one SVN week, converting it to 80K Starpoints doesn't make any sense for me, a single SVN week owner.  I get more value out of renting, or using the week.  

In other words, I can stay in my Maui timeshare for 2 weeks, or in a top hotel for 4 or 5 nights.  It makes more sense to convert to Starpoints when you own lots and lots of weeks and travel to Europe regularly.



> 2. How does the platinum for life works? Is it just tied to a 5* elite status (i.e. once you reach 5* elite then you get spg platinum)?



Yes - for a long as you OWN the Starwood timeshares - not really for life.  However, Starwood could do away with this program in the blink of an eye - so who knows...  They have already taken a major perk away from 5 Star owners since the program started 2 or 3 years ago.



> 3. In order to get the 5* elite, is it true I need to buy a single week from the developer, and then three weeks resale, and ensure that the developer retro's those three weeks into the program? Or is their another way to go?



There are MANY ways to do it.  SDKath just wrote up her method and will be "publishing" it on TUG, soon.  BTW - I think she wins the prize for lowest investment to reach 5 Star!  But basically - if you buy 2 weeks resale, you will probably have to up grade them with two developer weeks as well.  There is a long discussion about it posted at the top of the board (Requalifying.)


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## DeniseM (May 18, 2008)

polarbear said:


> Oh, one more thing. Is there a system to rent weeks out? Or is it up to the owner to rent it out themselves. If I rent it out to a stranger via craigslist or something, am I responsible for that person, or is it just like a regular hotel visit? Do people see a good rate of return from rentals after taking maint into consideration?



Some resorts have a Starwood rental program for owners (not Maui.)  It's a rip off - Starwood gets half the rent, and any expenses come out of the owner's half as well, and there are no guarantees that it will be rented.  Most of us rent our units ourselves.  I can rent my Maui 2 bdm. for $3,500.  

There has been a lot of speculation about how responsible owners are for renters.  The renter does have to submit a credit card at check-in.  No one has had a problem with a renter so far.  My guess is that if the damages maxed out the renter's credit card, they would probably go after the owner.  But again, I don't think it happens much in timesharing.

*
This is the cheap timeshare owner perspective*:  Right now we own 6 timeshare weeks.  We are renting all but 2 weeks and we earn enough from rent to cover the MF of all 6 weeks+.  All our TS's are paid for, so at this point, timesharing is costing us nothing on a yearly basis.  This summer we will be spending 2 weeks in our ocean front unit on Kauai - I bought these weeks on ebay and paid $1,300 and $1,500.  I used my AMEX Starpoints for the airline tickets, so the airfare and accommodations for the trip are costing us virtually nothing.  So when someone asks me if I wouldn't like to pay $7K a year in MF's to stay in 5 star hotels, it doesn't work for me.  

If you have the disposable income to make the upfront investment, and pay the yearly MF's, and staying in 5 Star hotels is important to you - then it may be perfect for you.  It is definitely a personal decision.

Let me just add that there are several 5 Star Elite owners on the board that love being Plat, and I know they will chime in to give you the other perspective.  

Just to clarify - I mean no disrespect to the owners who are 5 Star Elite - in fact SDKath has my total admiration for doing it for $50K!  It's just not for everyone.


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## pointsjunkie (May 18, 2008)

polarbear said:


> Wow, thanks everyone for the detailed replies, very helpful! I didn't realize the quick drop in resale price, that really changes things.
> 
> A couple questions:
> 
> ...



 when i cash my units in for starpoints i make sure i will get a better value at a hotel than my cost of my maintenance fees.
i wil lnever trade in my svv because i am only going to get 22000 starpoints and then it is not worth it to me , i then use that unit to get a timeshare at a resort that will rent well in the SVN and i rent it out.
 it is not important for me to stay in a 20000 starpoint per night, 7000,10000, 12000-16000 are just fine for us. as a platinum the club floor is a guarantee and any other upgrade is an extra perk. as a 5* we get 10% extra on our conversion and we are not chargerd the $99 to convert. i might not get a 7 day vacation but i always get 5 nights (5th night is free). we have been to amazing resorts and we go on vacations 6-8 times a year and have made 2/3's of  my MF"s back in rentals.

we would not have bought any starwood timeshares without the option to convert to starpoints, that was the best selling feature for us. in the past we have only used the option 2 or 3 times but now that we own so many , we will be converting a certain portion each year. it is wonderful knowing that i never have to pay for a hotel again. we have 6 vacations using starpoints planned for the rest of the year. 

if i paid extra money to have a certain view i know i would not be converting to starpoints but a view is not an issue with any of our units so i get to use this conversion option to go to places where there is no timeshare.


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## Henry M. (May 18, 2008)

I also like the option to convert to Starpoints. While I have been using all my time every year, and I do agree that renting is sometimes more profitable, it is also a bigger hassle. With 88,000 Starpoints from a week in Maui, I can stay almost 11 nights in a 200 to 300 Euro ($300-$450) per night hotel in Europe (and that is before a good suite upgrade that happens fairly often). Depending on the hotel and exchange rate, this is more than a typical rental fee and more than covers the maintenance fee. I typically get a minimum value of $0.04/Starpoint and often times much more than that.

Sure, the room won't be a 2BR villa and may be smaller. You probably don't want to exchange for the Sheraton Maui except to make your frequent flyer trip line up with the days you're stayin at WKORV. However, if you travel to other locations, Starpoints could be worth a lot of money when you stay at a hotel you'd be using anyhow when traveling abroad. If you like accommodations that have at least the same level of luxury that Westin timeshares have, Starpoints are not as poor a deal as many on TUG make them out to be. It all depends on how you like to travel.

On the requal question, you should first buy the resales and then buy a week from the developer for each week you want to requalify. It doesn't work the other way around.


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## SDKath (May 18, 2008)

See my new post entitled: SDKath's guide to 5* platinum 

It will hopefully answer a lot of the questions.


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## polarbear (May 19, 2008)

DeniseM said:


> Let me just add that there are several 5 Star Elite owners on the board that love being Plat, and I know they will chime in to give you the other perspective.



Thanks so much! I really appreciate all the feedback here!

If there are any platinum members, i'd love to hear their feedback. Do you always get upgraded, do you get suites, do you find it worthwhile?

We are SPG gold, and find getting upgraded quite hit or miss (hate how you have to wait till check in to find out).

Thanks again!


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## polarbear (May 19, 2008)

Thanks! Going through this now. =)


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## LisaRex (May 19, 2008)

polarbear said:


> Thanks so much! I really appreciate all the feedback here!
> 
> If there are any platinum members, i'd love to hear their feedback. Do you always get upgraded, do you get suites, do you find it worthwhile?



You should also check out Flyertalk.com.  That is the quintessential website for people who love to get the most out of points/status.  There are entire threads devoted to "What kind of upgrades did you get as Platinum?" on the Starwood folder. From my recollection, platinum upgrades in the U.S. are hit-and-miss (with perhaps a 2 out of 3 success ratio), however platinum upgrades overseas are consistent and great.  So if you plan to travel to Europe a lot, the suite upgrades may well be worth the price you'll pay to achieve 5* status with SVO.


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## Westin5Star (May 19, 2008)

In the last year since we got PFL, we have been upgraded all but 2 times out of 9 or 10 stays (I am starting to lose count).  Most of the upgrades have been to nice suites while a couple were to better view / club level rooms.  

I also encourage you to read on Flyertalk about other's experiences as Platinum guests.


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## Henry M. (May 19, 2008)

I have had the same experience as Westin5Star. Dozens of upgrades, mostly to suites, but a few to club level rooms. I've gotten suite upgrades every time I've needed a hotel in Hawaii (Moana Surfrider, Sheraton Kauai and Sheraton Maui - sometimes need extra days on the island to match up availability for my frequent flyer tickets with my WKORV stays). Several suite upgrades in European hotels.

Many might say you could pay for those upgrades with what you save in buying from the developer, and that is true if you only use SPG hotels once in a while. However, SPG Platinum is a nice perk to have if you travel frequently to locations with nice Starwood properties. It greatly enhances the value of any Starpoints you collect (whether by converting or using the SPG Amex card).


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