# Embarc letter from HGVC - Some small news



## dayooper (Oct 22, 2021)

Saw this thread on a letter to the Embarc owners over on the DRI Forum. It has some small insights into the relationship between HGVC and Embarc

Some Highlights


HGV has recommended that Embarc be rebranded as Hilton Grand Vacation properties and the Embarc board approved the change, but the name change still must be approved through Hilton Hotels
HGV will pay for the branding change while each resort will be responsible for keeping to HGVC standards
Options are being looked for Embarc owners to access HGV properties and vice versa, but the costs for access are still being worked out.

This is as good of news as I can get from this acquisition. The Embarc properties are what interest me the most! Hopefully the cost to access the properties (both Embarc and HGVC) aren‘t prohibitive. While it sure seems that this would happen, it was mentioned in the letter that there was a relationship prior to DRI purchasing Club Intrawest/ Embarc.


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## GT75 (Oct 22, 2021)

Wow, that is great news.   I like HGVC approach.    I agree, this is what interests me also.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 22, 2021)

Same here, there is a limited number of Diamonds that interest me (Santa Fe), but other than that I want an Ontario option back in since the Wyndham offering decided to sell the resort out right, therefore no Wyndham option anymore.


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## dayooper (Oct 22, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> Same here, there is a limited number of Diamonds that interest me (Santa Fe), but other than that I want an Ontario option back in since the Wyndham offering decided to sell the resort out right, therefore no Wyndham option anymore.



Have you been to Blue Mountain (I think that’s what it’s called) in the summer? We are not skiers, but that property looks really nice. I can see us spending a couple of days in Toronto then traveling up for a week or so at Blue Mountain.

There’s a couple of DRI resorts (Kauai, Tahoe, Los Cabos), but the Embarc resorts look much better to me.


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## Smclaugh99 (Oct 22, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Saw this thread on a letter to the Embarc owners over on the DRI Forum. It has some small insights into the relationship between HGVC and Embarc
> 
> Some Highlights
> 
> ...



That is fantastic news. I loved having access to Club IntraWest before it was acquired by Embarc/DRI and stayed at the Whistler property a couple times and loved it. More ski resorts, please!

Sean


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 22, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Have you been to Blue Mountain (I think that’s what it’s called) in the summer? We are not skiers, but that property looks really nice. I can see us spending a couple of days in Toronto then traveling up for a week or so at Blue Mountain.
> 
> There’s a couple of DRI resorts (Kauai, Tahoe, Los Cabos), but the Embarc resorts look much better to me.



Yes, Blue Mountain / Collingwood / Wasagua Beach are all great summer places to visit.  Wasagua is the world largest freshwater Beach.  The beach is nearly 9 miles long.  The Main Bruce Trail (550 miles long) is a great hiking path, it winds its way along the top of the Niagara Escarpment, from Niagara falls up to Tobermory.   Plus there are a bunch of associated trails off that.    You are not far from the beaches on Lake Huron Side, or from the Georgian Bay side.  If you are a diver there is Fathom Five Marine Park in Tobermory, but it is dry suit or wet suit even in middle of summer. 

There is plenty to do and the summers are nice, but that will also be high season as Canadians all like to get their vacations in from May to September.  

I would highly recommend it.  

I grew up in London Ontario, I dated a guy in Collingwood for a while.


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## dayooper (Oct 22, 2021)

Sandy VDH said:


> Yes, Blue Mountain / Collingwood / Wasagua Beach are all great summer places to visit.  Wasagua is the world largest freshwater Beach.  The beach is nearly 9 miles long.  The Main Bruce Trail (550 miles long) is a great hiking path, it winds its way along the top of the Niagara Escarpment, from Niagara falls up to Tobermory.   Plus there are a bunch of associated trails off that.    You are not far from the beaches on Lake Huron Side, or from the Georgian Bay side.  If you are a diver there is Fathom Five Marine Park in Tobermory, but it is dry suit or wet suit even in middle of summer.
> 
> There is plenty to do and the summers are nice, but that will also be high season as Canadians all like to get their vacations in from May to September.
> 
> ...



Yes, that looks amazing! I live ~ 1 hour west of the Blue Water Bridge and spent a few nights between the ages of 19 and 21 in Sarnia.  How far of a drive from Sarnia is Blue Mountain? 

I‘m very familiar with the Great Lakes (even cliff dived into Lake Superior), so the Lakes will never surprise me. Looking at the pics of the Embarc resorts, they look so luxurious. I hope the entrance into the new membership (they hinted at that as well in the letter to Embarc owners) isn’t so large it prevents those that don’t purchase direct not to access.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 22, 2021)

I hope it costs no more than a reservation fee to access.


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## CanuckTravlr (Oct 22, 2021)

This is very encouraging news.  We will be glad to potentially have access to the Embarc (formerly Intrawest) properties once again.  When we bought into HGVC they were a significant factor in that decision, since HGVC had no other Canadian locations (and still doesn't).  We were very disappointed (as were a couple of friends who owned at Club Intrawest) when DRI purchased them.

We will enjoy being able to use them at places like Blue Mountain, Mont Tremblant, and Whistler, plus they had (still have?) a location at Palm Desert, California that we looked at, but never got to.  And if the border ever closes again, at least we will have some locations here we can use.  I am surprised that HGVC has not created an urban location (similar to Chicago or NYC) in either Toronto or Vancouver, or even Montreal.

P.S. -  A gentle correction to the spelling of Wasaga Beach (no "u").


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## CanuckTravlr (Oct 22, 2021)

dayooper said:


> ...I live ~ 1 hour west of the Blue Water Bridge and spent a few nights between the ages of 19 and 21 in Sarnia.  How far of a drive from Sarnia is Blue Mountain?...



It's roughly a 4-hour drive, wheels rolling, no stops, from the Blue Water Bridge to the Blue Mountain Resort.  It will vary a bit, depending upon the route you choose and how much traffic there is (e.g. weekend vs. weekday).  The routes are mostly secondary highways, so much more scenic and interesting than just driving along the 401.


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## Sandy VDH (Oct 22, 2021)

CanuckTravlr said:


> It's roughly a 4-hour drive, wheels rolling, no stops, from the Blue Water Bridge to the Blue Mountain Resort.  It will vary a bit, depending upon the route you choose and how much traffic there is (e.g. weekend vs. weekday).  The routes are mostly secondary highways, so much more scenic and interesting than just driving along the 401.



The drive up HWY 21 through a bunch of the Lake Huron beach communities could be a nice one. Grand Bend, Bayfield, Goderich, and Kincardine are all nice little beach towns that are busy in the summer.


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## GT75 (Oct 22, 2021)

Obvious to me anyways is what are going to be the booking windows for Club Interwest/Embarc into their resorts & into current HGVC resorts and also the other way around.   It needs to be fair to both groups.   We are use to  our "Home Week"  (12-9 months) and "club season" (<9 months) booking windows.    Hopefully, Club Interwest/Embarc also has something similar where they can book their normal resorts at 12-9 month mark (or whatever it is) and then during the club season (< 9 months) we can book each other.    To me that is fair and I believe would be beneficial to both groups.    @dayooper, please post if you find out any more details.    I would assume that HGVC would give thorough fair well thought out equitable offer to both groups.


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## dsmrp (Oct 22, 2021)

I hope the point values for booking Embarc properties will be reasonable compared to other HGVC locations.

We liked the Whistler resort. 
Hope the Mexico resorts are included, just for another option.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 23, 2021)

dsmrp said:


> I hope the point values for booking Embarc properties will be reasonable compared to other HGVC locations.
> 
> We liked the Whistler resort.
> Hope the Mexico resorts are included, just for another option.


What were the point requirements like back when Club Intrawest had an agreement with HGV?


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## dsmrp (Oct 23, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> What were the point requirements like back when Club Intrawest had an agreement with HGV?


Sorry I don't know. I hope someone else can answer. Intrawest got sold to Diamond not long after I got my HGVC  account.


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## Talent312 (Oct 23, 2021)

I believe that C-I resorts had point requirements like standard HGVC resorts.
They were treated in the directory as being equal to standard affiliates.
Use of the full H-G-V brand/standards suggests they'll have on-par treatment.
.


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## dayooper (Oct 23, 2021)

dsmrp said:


> I hope the point values for booking Embarc properties will be reasonable compared to other HGVC locations





dioxide45 said:


> What were the point requirements like back when Club Intrawest had an agreement with HGV?




They were slightly more than standard, if I remember correctly. Here’s a post from 2013 from our very own @Talent312 listing the points for one of the Embarc/Club Intrawest resorts (Temblant in Quebec). I think the points for all of the Club Intrawest resorts were similar if not the same.



Talent312 said:


> C-I cannot be booked thru the HGVC website. You have to call.
> Availability during the high-seasons is limited, but keep calling.
> 
> Point requirements vary widely. At Temblant, Quebec...
> ...


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## dayooper (Oct 23, 2021)

GT75 said:


> Obvious to me anyways is what are going to be the booking windows for Club Interwest/Embarc into their resorts & into current HGVC resorts and also the other way around.   *It needs to be fair to both groups. *  We are use to  our "Home Week"  (12-9 months) and "club season" (<9 months) booking windows.    Hopefully, Club Interwest/Embarc also has something similar where they can book their normal resorts at 12-9 month mark (or whatever it is) and then during the club season (< 9 months) we can book each other.    To me that is fair and I believe would be beneficial to both groups.    @dayooper, please post if you find out any more details.    *I would assume that HGVC would give thorough fair well thought out equitable offer to both groups.*



I absolutely hope that Embarc owners, along with DRI and us HGVC owners as well, get fair treatment in this acquisition. We all need to keep the rights we bought.


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## alwysonvac (Oct 23, 2021)

HGVC and Intrawest ended their previous affiliation in March 2016 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/hgvc-spin-on-losing-club-intrawest-affiliation.240616

Attached are the old Club Intrawest point charts from the 2013 HGVC Club Member Guide.
_NOTE: The CI resorts weren‘t bookable online, and Panorama & Ucluelet weren’t included._





*UPDATE : Also found references to some of the old Points charts on Seth’s website*
Sandestin (link)
Zihuatanejo (link)
Tremblant (link)
Whistler (link)
Palm Desert (link)


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## dayooper (Oct 23, 2021)

Thank you @alwysonvac!


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## alwysonvac (Oct 23, 2021)

Here are the number of units based on the 2014 HGVC Disclosure Agreement


alwysonvac said:


> From the May 2014 HGVC Disclosure Agreement.
> 
> Club Intrawest - Vancouver 29
> Club Intrawest - Sandestin 48
> ...



*UPDATE*: Adding link to Embarc website - https://embarcresorts.com/embarc-resorts.html



​


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## NOLA47 (Oct 23, 2021)

*I am so happy to see this acquisition moving along.  I too enjoyed Club Intrawest when managed by Hilton.  It was actually a major part of our decision to purchase additional points to allow early access to reservations each year.  While I don't think the Sandestin property is of the same caliber as the HGVC properties I have visited, it is all about location and amenities that we enjoy so much.  Hopefully, HGVC will come in and give it the little spruce up it needs to meet their standards.  I was always surprised that HGVC did not have a resort in the Destin, FL area.  Maybe they always had this idea in their back pocket to acquire one of the existing resorts.  I'm happy we are finally headed in that direction.*


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## bizaro86 (Oct 23, 2021)

Thanks for posting those! I'm assuming Panorama will be included this time. Maybe if its considered a "less desireable" location the required HGVC points will be less. We go to Panorama every summer and the embarc is one of the nicest buildings there.


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## dayooper (Oct 23, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> Thanks for posting those! I'm assuming Panorama will be included this time. Maybe if its considered a "less desireable" location the required HGVC points will be less. We go to Panorama every summer and the embarc is one of the nicest buildings there.



What/Where is Panorama?


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## alwysonvac (Oct 23, 2021)

dayooper said:


> What/Where is Panorama?


Added link to Embarc website on post #21 above.


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## dayooper (Oct 23, 2021)

alwysonvac said:


> Added link to Embarc website on post #21 above.



Thanks!


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## bizaro86 (Oct 23, 2021)

dayooper said:


> What/Where is Panorama?


It's a ski resort village in British Columbia, Canada. 

We go in the summer for swimming, water slides, hiking, mini golf, tennis etc with our kids.

Its a short drive from where we live.

Edited to add: I'm quite excited about this news actually, because I'll be able to book it with HGVC points, and presumably also with RCI, which is cheaper for me.


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## echino (Oct 23, 2021)

Is Embarc pulling out of Interval?


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## bizaro86 (Oct 23, 2021)

echino said:


> Is Embarc pulling out of Interval?



That is speculation on my part, as HGVC trades with RCI. I included "presumably" because while I think that change is likely it isn't a done deal, and they'll probably have to wait until the II contract expires.


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## dmurray007 (Oct 23, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Yes, that looks amazing! I live ~ 1 hour west of the Blue Water Bridge and spent a few nights between the ages of 19 and 21 in Sarnia.  How far of a drive from Sarnia is Blue Mountain?
> 
> I‘m very familiar with the Great Lakes (even cliff dived into Lake Superior), so the Lakes will never surprise me. Looking at the pics of the Embarc resorts, they look so luxurious. I hope the entrance into the new membership (they hinted at that as well in the letter to Embarc owners) isn’t so large it prevents those that don’t purchase direct not to access.


Figure about a 3 hr drive from Sarnia to Collingwood ( Blue Mountain).


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 24, 2021)

This is great news, i had been wondering if the old Club Intrawest resorts might be the first to be re-integrated.    We stayed at the Vancouver location many years ago and enjoyed it.  It definitely an urban location, so not a traditional resort..   But we still enjoyed it.  We have family that lives in Barrie Ontario and they took us to Blue Mountain resort area one afternoon.  I didn't see the timeshare units, but whole resort area seemed nice and I can see the attraction.


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## Bill4728 (Oct 24, 2021)

echino said:


> Is Embarc pulling out of Interval?





bizaro86 said:


> That is speculation on my part, as HGVC trades with RCI. I included "presumably" because while I think that change is likely it isn't a done deal, and they'll probably have to wait until the II contract expires.


DRI pulled Embarc out of II years ago BUT even with that said, owners can still trade their week reservations at three Embarc (whistler, Palm Desert & Mt Tremblant)  resorts within II.  

I think there is something with both RCI & II, that once owners at a resort can trade in an exchange company they can continue to trade in that company.  As an example  there are resorts in HGVC that trade in II (Florida gulf coast) and a few Marriott resorts in Palm Desert and Hilton Head can still trade in RCI even with Marriott owning II.


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## gnorth16 (Oct 27, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Have you been to Blue Mountain (I think that’s what it’s called) in the summer? We are not skiers, but that property looks really nice. I can see us spending a couple of days in Toronto then traveling up for a week or so at Blue Mountain.
> cabo
> There’s a couple of DRI resorts (Kauai, T9ahoe, Los Cabos), but the Embarc resorts look much better to me.



I'm at the Los Cabos location right now (Cabo Azul via RCI exchange) and it is really nice.  We love Cabo and this is our new favorite resort in the Cabo area. Everything is in really good condition, clean, well laid out, nice pools, pretty good food and a great location - walkable to old town, a couple good restaurants (La Fourchetta and Latino 8) across the street and La Comer or Chedraui are about a 15 minute walk for groceries or a 60 peso Uber.  Really nothing negative about the place.


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## dayooper (Oct 29, 2021)

gnorth16 said:


> I'm at the Los Cabos location right now (Cabo Azul via RCI exchange) and it is really nice.  We love Cabo and this is our new favorite resort in the Cabo area. Everything is in really good condition, clean, well laid out, nice pools, pretty good food and a great location - walkable to old town, a couple good restaurants (La Fourchetta and Latino 8) across the street and La Comer or Chedraui are about a 15 minute walk for groceries or a 60 peso Uber.  Really nothing negative about the place.



Everything I have heard about Cabo Azul has been great. I think it’s in the realm of possibility that it might wind up an HGVC resort. Only resort in the trust and already up to HGVC standards. Fits right in. 

Los Cabos is the place in Mexico I would love to go. The Mexican Embarc resort is also on my list.


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## buzglyd (Oct 29, 2021)

gnorth16 said:


> I'm at the Los Cabos location right now (Cabo Azul via RCI exchange) and it is really nice.  We love Cabo and this is our new favorite resort in the Cabo area. Everything is in really good condition, clean, well laid out, nice pools, pretty good food and a great location - walkable to old town, a couple good restaurants (La Fourchetta and Latino 8) across the street and La Comer or Chedraui are about a 15 minute walk for groceries or a 60 peso Uber.  Really nothing negative about the place.



Is Javier’s open? Also, there is a small place behind La Comer called Lateral. Really good food and cheap.


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## gnorth16 (Oct 29, 2021)

Javiers dining room is closed for renos, but some of the items are still on the room service, pool and Flor De Noche menu.

It is much nicer and better location than the Fiesta Americana that you can book with HGVC points. It would be a perfect addition to the HGVC brand but it might be too complicated cause the structure of DRI “collections” as opposed to deeds. I am just guessing.


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## GT75 (Oct 30, 2021)

gnorth16 said:


> It is much nicer and better location than the Fiesta Americana that you can book with HGVC points. It would be a perfect addition to the HGVC brand but it might be too complicated cause the structure of DRI “collections” as opposed to deeds. I am just guessing.


Looking at the information (pics, videos, and virtual tours), I would definitely agree with that (and most HGVC resorts also).   The resort does look truly amazing and also doesn't seem to fit what I have heard about the quality of most DRI resorts.   Maybe that is a reason that it is in its own separate trust.    I certainly wonder what the MFs are and also what HGVC would make the point structure if it was added to the HGVC system.    Honestly, we really like FA-Cabo both the location and the resort (but that is us).

Edited to add: In fact, Club Azul looks similar quality to HGVC The Crane in Barbados.     I would imagine the point structure would be similar also.


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## Arusso (Oct 30, 2021)

dayooper said:


> I absolutely hope that Embarc owners, along with DRI and us HGVC owners as well, get fair treatment in this acquisition. We all need to keep the rights we bought.


Exactly.  The question is what will be considered fair to owners in various ownership situations?  In a perfect world and because the quality of all resorts are not equal, equity could be achieved by bringing all of the various owners into one ownership system with a common points valuation for each property thereby allowing all owners who wish to participate via The Club , the opportunity to request an internal exchange.   The downside to this will be the perception that some properties have been devalued.  But, reality is that resorts that are marginal have already been devalued by the exchange companies.  Also, not everyone should be forced to participate either.  Deeded owners not wishing to participate in an exchange system would continue to enjoy their ownership as is.  But, a common currency is not likely to happen any time, if ever.   As commented by other knowledgeable members on this site,  whenever there has been an acquisition,  the developers seem to rollout monetization strategies targeting current owners to buy in to a new program that is offered to new buyers.  Nevertheless, I want to maintain an open mind and hope that ultimately everyone will be treated fairly.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 30, 2021)

Cabo Azul is also on my list and I hope we gain club access. My understanding is that you can walk to restaurants and grocery stores in town which is a plus.

Agree FA-Cabo is terrific (we've been twice) but the addition of the mandatory AI is a deal killer. We also don't like to rent a car in MX so the remoteness of this resort on the corridor is a downside.

Not sure how they will position Azul relative to the new HGVC Cabo resort. I hope the points are reasonable and there is not mandatory AI. If so, I will fare better trading in RCI. There are many nice Cabo resorts in RCI with lower point requirements and optional AI.

I can't wait to get to Cabo again. Just waiting for Covid to settle down.


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## geist1223 (Oct 30, 2021)

There is shopping and restaurants across the Street from Cabo Azul. Go out of Cabo Azul and turn right Downtown San Jose del Cabo is about a mile walk. If you turn left there are 2 large grocery stores about a 1 mile walk. Royal Solaris is on 1 side and Vidanta (formerly Grand Mayan) is on the other side.

We were in San Jose del Cabo for 3 weeks last February. We spent 1 week at Royal Solaris, 1 week at WM Coral Baja, and 1 week at Cabo Azul. At Cabo Azul we like the Rooms overlooking the quiet adult pool.


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## GT75 (Oct 30, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Agree FA-Cabo is terrific (we've been twice) but the addition of the mandatory AI is a deal killer. We also don't like to rent a car in MX so the remoteness of this resort on the corridor is a downside.


I also stopped going to FA-Cabo when it became mandatory AI for HGVC reservations.    But, I was able to rent points from an FA-Cabo member for next February (no mandatory AI). We are also investigating purchasing FA-Cabo resales pts when we find the right price.     I actually am very comfortable driving in that area of Mexico, but I certainly understand why some wouldn't like that situation.   Club Azul definitely seems to have some great advantages but I don't think that we want to wait until the dust settles either.   If it turns out that we could also easily book Club Azul in the future, we sure wouldn't have a problem staying in Cabo more often or for longer periods of time like @geist1223.


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## karibkeith (Nov 2, 2021)

dayooper said:


> Saw this thread on a letter to the Embarc owners over on the DRI Forum. It has some small insights into the relationship between HGVC and Embarc
> 
> Some Highlights
> 
> ...


The cherry-picking begins!


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## PigsDad (Nov 2, 2021)

karibkeith said:


> The cherry-picking begins!


Which I think is a good thing.  HGV is generally a higher-level product, so it doesn't make sense to merge all properties into a single product.  Combine those that are of similar quality and that will enhance the product for owners on both sides.

Kurt


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## dayooper (Nov 2, 2021)

karibkeith said:


> The cherry-picking begins!



Not sure I agree with this. When DRI bought out Club Intrawest, it changed what we HGVC owners had access to. If, and its a big if, Embarc gets merged into HGVC, DRI owners will have lost nothing. DRI owners had no access to Embarc. If anything, this restores what was cherry picked from us.


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## karibkeith (Nov 3, 2021)

dayooper said:


> I absolutely hope that Embarc owners, along with DRI and us HGVC owners as well, get fair treatment in this acquisition. We all need to keep the rights we bought.


My greatest fear is that DRI members will be excluded from HGVC and Embarc properties. I was promised twice that Embarc properties would be available to DRI Club members and that never happened. DRI was thrown under the bus by Apollo and the first we heard from the head of HGVC was not in the interests of DRI members who he made it clear they would be relegated to second class status. Read the posts about HGVC acquiring the properties that meet their vaunted standards and tell me what happens to DRI members who had access to those properties.  Will they be rebranded to HGVC too? HGVC commenters do not seem very concerned about what happens to DRI members. It is hard to wipe the drool from my screen as they discuss what they feel are the better properties.  Note that the quoted announcement did not mention DRI who owns the properties. Embarc properties were put into a separate collection and I suppose it had its own Board of Directors although none of this has been made clear. Some words of assurance from the new owner would help. Does anyone anticipate the coming of a class action suit?


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## dioxide45 (Nov 3, 2021)

karibkeith said:


> My greatest fear is that DRI members will be excluded from HGVC and Embarc properties. I was promised twice that Embarc properties would be available to DRI Club members and that never happened. DRI was thrown under the bus by Apollo and the first we heard from the head of HGVC was not in the interests of DRI members who he made it clear they would be relegated to second class status. Read the posts about HGVC acquiring the properties that meet their vaunted standards and tell me what happens to DRI members who had access to those properties.  Will they be rebranded to HGVC too? HGVC commenters do not seem very concerned about what happens to DRI members. It is hard to wipe the drool from my screen as they discuss what they feel are the better properties.  Note that the quoted announcement did not mention DRI who owns the properties. Embarc properties were put into a separate collection and I suppose it had its own Board of Directors although none of this has been made clear. Some words of assurance from the new owner would help. Does anyone anticipate the coming of a class action suit?


Did DRI even create a collection for Embarc like they have like their other DRI collections? Or was Embarc its own trust before DRI bought Club Intrawest? Or is each Embarc its own independant HOA?


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## SmithOp (Nov 3, 2021)

I wish I had a nickel for every cry of class action on the internet. It would probably amount to what people get if they win, only the lawyers get paid the big bux.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## dayooper (Nov 3, 2021)

karibkeith said:


> My greatest fear is that DRI members will be excluded from HGVC and Embarc properties. I was promised twice that Embarc properties would be available to DRI Club members and that never happened.



Who told you this twice? Salesman? I believe the original goal (I could be wrong) was for the Embarc properties to be merged into DRI, but the owners and HOA's of the resorts threw up a barrier. I think there was something in the way legally that allowed Embarc to prevent DRI access. The Embarc board  voted in favor of being rebranded HGVC. Somebody in the know can chime in here. 

As far as excluded from HGVC and/or Embarc, I believe that choice will be yours. From what it sounds like, there will be access in the form of a new membership that will link the two parts. In the 2nd quarter conference call, it was said that a new membership will be available and can be purchased as a stand alone, but will be included in every new upgrade. This will link those that want to reserve in the other system. It was also said that the purchased rights won’t be taken away. Not sure how far that goes, but it was said. 

Lastly, I remember when the rumors were going the other way. I was going to bail. The reputation of DRI was very negative. I understand the trepidation. I want to say that, excluding the sales department (which I won’t come in contact with), HGVC treats owners very well. They have to live up to the Hilton name and they do a pretty good job of it.


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## Talent312 (Nov 4, 2021)

dayooper said:


> ... From what it sounds like, there will be access in the form of a new membership that will link the two parts. In the 2nd quarter conference call, it was said that a new membership will be available and can be purchased as a stand alone, but will be included in every new upgrade...



You can rest assured that there will be a hefty price to be paid for such access.
You need to buy a park-to-park ticket, if you want to ride the Hogwarts Express.






.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 4, 2021)

karibkeith said:


> My greatest fear is that DRI members will be excluded from HGVC and Embarc properties. I was promised twice that Embarc properties would be available to DRI Club members and that never happened. DRI was thrown under the bus by Apollo and the first we heard from the head of HGVC was not in the interests of DRI members who he made it clear they would be relegated to second class status. Read the posts about HGVC acquiring the properties that meet their vaunted standards and tell me what happens to DRI members who had access to those properties.  Will they be rebranded to HGVC too? HGVC commenters do not seem very concerned about what happens to DRI members. It is hard to wipe the drool from my screen as they discuss what they feel are the better properties.  Note that the quoted announcement did not mention DRI who owns the properties. Embarc properties were put into a separate collection and I suppose it had its own Board of Directors although none of this has been made clear. Some words of assurance from the new owner would help. Does anyone anticipate the coming of a class action suit?


And we were told that when the two systems were brought together, it was likely that only DRI club members at Platinum level or higher would be able to reserve outside what is now the Diamond Club.  And that after the systems merged, the cost for added DRI points would increase to match HGVC point costs, which would be a substantial increase.  Therefore we should buy points now to get to Platinum level.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 4, 2021)

More sales lies.   Great lesson to only buy when they can back up a program enhancement in writing.

It seems to be the MO of sales to say, "Buy now it will be more expensive later."  IMHO I would rather wait and know the program for certain because I can be perfectly happy with what I already own if it ends up being too expensive, or the program is too convoluted.  This not only applies to HGVC/Diamond but to the years-in-the-making MVC Vistana integration program.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 4, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> More sales lies.   Great lesson to only buy when they can back up a program enhancement in writing.
> 
> It seems to be the MO of sales to say, "Buy now it will be more expensive later."  IMHO I would rather wait and know the program for certain because I can be perfectly happy with what I already own if it ends up being too expensive, or the program is too convoluted.  This not only applies to HGVC/Diamond but to the years-in-the-making MVC Vistana integration program.




In almost every sales contract there is a provision that says that the purchase contract is the total agreement between the parties and that anything that was presented in the sales presentation is not part of the agreement unless it is included in the purchase.  So typically the sales contract says:

the buyer will acquire _### _points in _yyy _Collection/Club/Group. Or it could reference some deeded ownership.
buyer's rights to use those points will be subject to Club rules, which can be changed or modified at any time.
In exchange for receiving the points, buyer will pay _$$$$_.
Buyer agrees to pay all fees and assessments assessed.
And that pretty much sums up the sales contract. It's about as one-sided as a contract can be.  The only thing that is certain is the buyers obligations to pay now and in the future.  All  usage rights are subject to change and modification. 

If people are thinking logically, (which the sales floor is totally constructed to discourage), a buyer would include in the contract all of the key portions of the sales that were material in persuading them to enter into the contract.  That's what occurs in most other commercial transactions.  Using Diamond as an example, if the sales pitch says that by attaining Gold status, you will get a certain set of perks, then the sales contract should guarantee that you get those perks, not that you are a Gold member, but the Gold member can be changed at any time. 

We did some incremental Diamond purchases to get to the Gold level, but I confess that we didn't get those items written into the contract.  One thing we did get, though, was when we used Club Combinations to reach Gold level, that was explicitly written into the contract.  A few years down the road a sales person told us that the points we received using Club Combinations were "soft" points, and those points would be taken away after five years, after which we would lose our Gold status.  So if we wanted to keep our Gold status we needed to buy "hard" points to replace those soft points. 

I disputed that, saying that there was nothing mentioned about any five year window.  After we got home I confirmed that our sales contract says that the Club Combinations points were used to get us to Gold level, and that the contract makes no mention of any five-year window.  That hasn't come up again in any further updates, so I haven't had to trot out the sales agreement.  But I remain prepared.


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## escanoe (Nov 4, 2021)

Talent312 said:


> You can rest assured that there will be a hefty price to be paid for such access.
> You need to buy a park-to-park ticket, if you want to ride the Hogwarts Express.
> 
> 
> ...



I suspect you are right, but with the access I have to the DRI resorts I might be interested in through RCI, it would be hard to justify too high of a fee. Of course, putting a high fee on this access might be useful on the sales floor to making an upgrade purchase sound like it is a real bargain. If this comes at a reasonable fee, I will think about it. If not, I don't see it being anything to want bad enough to pay an astronomical price for.


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## Talent312 (Nov 5, 2021)

escanoe said:


> ... If this comes at a reasonable fee, I will think about it. If not, I don't see it being anything to want bad enough to pay an astronomical price for.



A few years ago, I attended an update at an Exploria resort where they wanted us to buy a 2nd unit so we'd get access to their new point-system. We declined to pay for something we wouldn't use. However. HGVC's price for access to their system may turn out to be more attractive to DRI owners.
.


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## karibkeith (Nov 6, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Did DRI even create a collection for Embarc like they have like their other DRI collections? Or was Embarc its own trust before DRI bought Club Intrawest? Or is each Embarc its own independant HOA?


I have a copy of the announcement of the acquisition. There is no mention of a separate collection and it sure sounded like it was the same as other acquisitions implying integration into the Club system. Following a period of no information, the Embarc name came out with no explanation and the resorts appeared in the Diamond directory. However, going to the page for an Embarc resort showed "This resort is only available for reservations by our Embarc® members."  Later on, there was mention of an Embarc collection.

I wanted access to their property in Collingwood as it is only a couple of hours drive away. I have driven through this property and do not feel it is anything special so I do not know what is the level of Embarc standards and if Embarc standards are at the HGVC level.. I have never seen any of their other properties.


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## jmparker98223 (Nov 7, 2021)

Interesting!  
Good riddance to DRI!

To my knowledge Hilton never managed CI.  There was an exchange agreement of sorts that was handled by Extraordinary Escapes, a trading company wholly owned by CI.

Diamond point owners never had direct access to CI/Embarc inventory and CI/Embarc owners never had direct access to DRI properties. Nor was there any kind of a gateway other than an exchange via one of the exchange companies.  Diamond claimed to have ownership of the CI/Embarc properties but what they really had was the burden of management and the right to hold the trust properties in their portfolio.

It's not clear to me how HGVC can set aside contracts that original CI owners have concerning the use of the properties that are held in trust for the CI owners.  

When DRI moved to purchase management of CI  it caused a pretty big  uproar and the first ever general meeting of owners.  There was a CI Owners Group that started up that  has been quiescent for a while, however, should any cross booking be attempted it's sure to be met with resistance from CI owners.

The CI/EMBARC properties are superior when compared to many other high end timeshares and the locations are superior as well.  

We have used Whistler every year since 2001 when we first bought CI.  

The Panorama Resort is well into the Purcell mountain range and has the heli-skiing into the Bugaboos.  It's heavenly at the right time of year, at other times such as fall, it's very quiet -bears roam the streets.  The Grey Wolf Golf Course at Panorama  is one of those fantasy golf courses where you drive from the tee to a mountain top that's been clipped off 300yd.s distant. If you've got a 350yd drive, you'll just have to take a ball on your card.

The Palm Desert is really special and unique.  Very high end.  Hard to get into even as an owner, as the folks in LA book weekends and the mid-week days are most of what is available. Perhaps the best use lies along the path of booking midweek, checking out on Friday and checking in some other Palm Spring area resort.  We've done that and the week long stay elsewhere is sort of anticlimactic. Plan your activities accordingly.

Zihuantanejo is on a scale of 1 to 10, an 11.  

Haven't been to Blue Mountain, Tremblant  or San Destin


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## GT75 (Nov 8, 2021)

jmparker98223 said:


> To my knowledge Hilton never managed CI.


This is correct.    HGVC and CI had an exchange agreement between the two companies prior to CI being purchased by Diamond.


jmparker98223 said:


> Diamond point owners never had direct access to CI/Embarc inventory and CI/Embarc owners never had direct access to DRI properties. Nor was there any kind of a gateway other than an exchange via one of the exchange companies. Diamond claimed to have ownership of the CI/Embarc properties but what they really had was the burden of management and the right to hold the trust properties in their portfolio.


You obviously would know but that is what we had heard also.   I think that I did hear that Diamond wanted to integrate CI with Diamond but CI members of course didn’t agree to that.


jmparker98223 said:


> It's not clear to me how HGVC can set aside contracts that original CI owners have concerning the use of the properties that are held in trust for the CI owners.


On the HGVC side, we haven’t heard any news concerning this rebranding of CI.     The only news is via the communications on CI/Embarc side.   Past communications from HGV with former DRI & CI/Embarc members and HGVC has been consistent with the following statement:

​


Bill4728 said:


> Finally, rebranding of Embarc properties will be a multi-year, phased effort. As resorts are rebranded, we will share existing updates with you along the way. We would like to emphasize that access to your timeshare will remain the same and you will receive the same level of service you’ve come to enjoy.​​


​
So, right now I view this as a name change only.


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## echino (Nov 8, 2021)

Embarc resorts are great. I stayed in Whistler, Panorama and Palm Desert, all via II. Very impressed.


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## Talent312 (Nov 8, 2021)

HGVC is likely to offer owners voluntary membership in HGVC, as they do SW Florida
owners.  Those who join HGVC will give the club access to the resort.

Even if they don't take over management,  HGVC may still list them as "affiliates"
-- bookable becuz some owners participate in the club.
..


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## dayooper (Nov 8, 2021)

Talent312 said:


> HGVC is likely to offer owners voluntary membership in HGVC, as they do SW Florida
> owners.  Those who join HGVC will give access the club access to the resort.
> 
> Even if they don't take over management,  HGVC may still list them as "affiliates"
> ...



This is my thought. While it could be in name only like @GT75 says, I think there will be some sort of crossover. I go back to what Mark Wang said this summer, owners won’t lose their purchased rights. If any of us don’t want to play, we won’t have to. Same goes for DRI owners.


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