# DRI points perdicament. Need some opinions.



## uss2defiant (Sep 1, 2018)

Hi all,

Thank you in advance in reading this post. It's a long one.

At the DRI Vegas Cancun resort.
Wife met the customer relations rep, apparently not sales, to complain and do a review.

Apparently before they go public they are trying to make owners happy.

We are cureently silver level at 17,500.
Apparently with 7 different contracts (unbeknownst to us, we thought it waswjust one contract) as my wife, premarriage bought points at different times with the first one bought, maybe at 2011.

Problem they highlighted:
1.According to them, the cost analysis in 10 years with what we currently have is that we would be paying some total of  approx 350k.
2. Apparently 6 of 7 of the contracts have prepayment penalty.

Solution:
They brought in this equity trade program from last September which ended that since we would be paying as much as some one in gold tier we might as well restructure all 7 contracts into one and purchase additional 12,500 points to make it a total of 30k points. The purchasing of 12,500 points would be about 40k dollars. That is on top of our existing loan.
With this in 10 years we would only be paying $150k vs $350. Also, so called insurance is a new feature so special assessments would be passed to us. I wasn't there so I don't know the math behind it.

I don't like the timeshare as there is no value.

Here is where we are at.
1. We felt that this was a better option and went with the equity trade but we will be rescinding this new purchase.
2. We called the DRI finance on the phone directly as the people here gave excuse that they could not provide any information regarding our previous 7 contracts. We thought it was just one contract as there was only one loan contract. We found out, as we suspected, that there is only one loan from DRI and there is no prepayment penalty. We also found out directly that the maintenance fee is just the annual base + the associated maintenance fee per point would be.

Questions:
1. Is there such a thing as prepayment penalty with individual contacts even though it is just one loan?
2. Is the info from the finance department correct or the associates at the resort correct?
2. Does 7 contracts mean 7 different deeds? I don't think I can easily sell 30k points together as opposed to 7 smalled chunks if individual contracts mean individual deeds. I was able to reach someone at SMTSN today and she said that it is 7 separate deeds and it would be easier to sell as opposed to a single 30k points.

Thank you.

I just don't know who to believe anymore.


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## artringwald (Sep 2, 2018)

If you haven't created an account on their website, you should do it ASAP. If you log in you will be able to see if you have one contract or several. 
Points rarely have any resale value. People are paying DRI money to take them back because they can't give them away.
I can't see how buying more points is going to save you money. Besides the $40K they want you to pay, you'd be paying more in maintenance fees.
Sorry I can't answer all your questions, but if you haven't followed the written instructions for rescinding, I hope you do it soon. 
I would advise against borrowing money to buy a timeshare. If you don't have the cash for the purchase, it's a bad idea to get a loan.


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

Thank you for the reply.
My wife has an account but has no clue where to get that information.

Any help will be might appreciated.

Thank you.

We will be rescinding. I don't understand why our MF with the points we currently have will increase any different % wise. Any insight on that?


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

Also how do I get DRI to take it back? I was told that it has to be fully paid and all MF for ten years be paid.

Thank you.


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## nuwermj (Sep 2, 2018)

uss2defiant said:


> 1. Is there such a thing as prepayment penalty with individual contacts even though it is just one loan?
> 2. Is the info from the finance department correct or the associates at the resort correct?
> 2. Does 7 contracts mean 7 different deeds? I don't think I can easily sell 30k points together as opposed to 7 smalled chunks if individual contracts mean individual deeds. I was able to reach someone at SMTSN today and she said that it is 7 separate deeds and it would be easier to sell as opposed to a single 30k points.



1) A timeshare loan originating from Diamond Resorts will not have a prepayment penalty. 
2) Trust the finance department before trusting the sales associate. You can check yourself: Log into your account; follow the navigation button labeled "Ownership Summary." This screen will show you each contract you have and the corresponding points. 
3) You don't have deeds. You own shares of a pool of deeds. A trust fund owns the deeds and you own a share of the trust fund. Each point is a share. One can buy shares (points) in almost any block-quantity you'd like. 



uss2defiant said:


> I just don't know who to believe anymore.



Never believe a Diamond sales agent. I have seen, maybe, 15 different reports about this "equity trade program" pitch out of the two Vegas sales centers (Cancun and Polo Towers). No one understands what it is or how it works. No one can reproduce the math for the savings. It's a huge, systematic fraud.


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## artringwald (Sep 2, 2018)

uss2defiant said:


> Also how do I get DRI to take it back? I was told that it has to be fully paid and all MF for ten years be paid.
> 
> Thank you.


The loan has to be paid in full and the MF for the current year has to be paid in full before DRI will take it back. You do not have to pay ten years MF for them to take it back.


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## pedro47 (Sep 2, 2018)

Suggestion only please call DRI loan department on Tuesday morning and they should be able to tell you what you own, loan balances and about that the prepayment penalty. I do not feel the prepayment penalty  is true.

Monday is a holiday (Labor Day).  Their offices are closed.

However, to give your DRI timeshare back to Diamond your loan much be paid in full and your current MF must be paid in full. 
2019 Maintenance Fees are due in Jan 2019.

Good luck.


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

Thank you all for the replies.

Another question, the MF fee per point and base cost would be the same regardless of what status level, correct?

I think there are club fees too?

Thank you, I am trying to understand the MF. I didn't find or missed a post about it in the forum.


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## nuwermj (Sep 2, 2018)

uss2defiant said:


> Another question, the MF fee per point and base cost would be the same regardless of what status level, correct?
> 
> I think there are club fees too?



Diamond has a few different ownership pools, each with slightly different fees. The largest pool is the "US Collection," which you likely own. US Collection fees for 2018 are:

Base (or standard) point assessment = $230.00
Per point standard assessment = $0.15936

Club dues:
You own more than 15,000 points so your dues are two parts:
Base Club fee = $181
Per point Club fee = $0.00518

For those who have fewer than 15,000 points the Club dues are are a fixed amount of $245.


Everyone with points in the US Collection has their fees computed with this formula. There are some variations, like, for example, if you also own a deeded week. But if you have only points, and they are in only one collection (one ownership pool) then the above is the formula.


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## Iggyearl (Sep 2, 2018)

uss2defiant said:


> We will be rescinding. I don't understand why our MF with the points we currently have will increase any different % wise. Any insight on that?



Please note that your rescission rights in Nevada include 5 calendar days.  You need to write a letter to Diamond corporate expressing your desire to rescind your latest contract.  It needs to be postmarked by 5 days after the signed contract.  There should be instructions in the contract as to the mailing address.  That will reset your relationship with Diamond back to where you were before the signing.  You should send your letter from any full service postal facility which is open 24 hours, and can give you a receipt of mailing.  If you miss this deadline, you will have a heck of a time getting rid of this contract.


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

We will be faxing and mailing it.


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## Iggyearl (Sep 2, 2018)

For your future reference, there is a Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/groups/DiamondResortsOwnersAdvocacy/ - where Diamond owners can discuss topics like yours, and get help and advice regarding their timeshares.  I don't own Diamond, but the link was given to me by Irene Parker, who is a consumer activist in the timeshare industry.  Diamond has a reputation regarding high pressure and the veracity of their sales agents.  This site may help you separate the wheat from the chaff. Good luck.


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## youppi (Sep 2, 2018)

The 2018 MF on 17,500 pts in US Collection is $3,290.45.
If the MF increase by 5% annually over the next 10 years you will pay in MF a total of $43,456.27
How they arrive at $350K in 10 years with 17,500 pts ? Do you have over $300K of loan ?


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

Thank youfor that MF calculation.
I have no clue how they got to that, I wasn't there when they showed my wife number.
Even with my current loan at 10 years, it is not even $350k.


Possibly the different contracts have different MFs?

But from a previous post, if we already have points, the MF calculations are standard, correct?


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

Thank you that FB group link. I already see one of the first few posts that applies to my situation at the same resort and that owner is here as well.


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## nuwermj (Sep 2, 2018)

uss2defiant said:


> I have no clue how they got to that [$350k over 10 years number]



I do. A bold faced lie. Standard practice at a Diamond Resorts Sales Center. 

In the words of the Attorney General of Arizona:
"The State [of Arizona] believes that actions and statements by certain Diamond employees, including Vacation Counselors, Sales Managers, and Quality Assurance Officers, constitute deception, deceptive or unfair acts or practices, fraud, false pretenses, false promises, misrepresentations, or concealment, suppression, or omission of material facts in violation of the ACFA [Arizona Consumer Fraud Act]." 

The Attorney General lists five pages of specific actions and statements that lead to this conclusion.


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## youppi (Sep 2, 2018)

May be the 350K is the calculus for an acquisition of permanent points (30K points @ $9 per point + MF for 10 years). They didn't take in account that they have already 17500 pts.
and the 150K is the calculus for there new 10 years RTU only points (30K points @ $x per point + lower MF for 10 years but you have no points after 10 years).


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

That could be. Failed cost benefit employee.
Either way, there was someone else at the resort too who posted on the FB group similar lies.

We'll be taking care of the paperwork before we leave town.

Either way.... Sigh .... FML...

All of your replies were very helpful! Especially this holiday weekend.


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## DRIless (Sep 2, 2018)

Questions:  Answer to your 2nd #2

*2. Does 7 contracts mean 7 different deeds? I don't think I can easily sell 30k points together as opposed to 7 smalled chunks if individual contracts mean individual deeds. I was able to reach someone at SMTSN today and she said that it is 7 separate deeds and it would be easier to sell as opposed to a single 30k points.*

You most probably do not have deeds but Points in various "Collections" that are held in a Trust.  It's much easier for DRI to foreclose this way.  SMTSN is not your friend.  It won't be easy to sell anything, DRI devalues the resale purchase by not allowing transfer of The Club membership, your ownerships could only be used in their respective "Collection," and even if all sold to the same person could not be used together to make a single reservation.

You need to take stock of what you have and use it to its full advantage while you still have outstanding loans because you will never get what you owe for it, no matter how little.


BEWARE OF TIMESHARE MATH


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

Thank you.
Could you please clarify what you mean by various Collections? 
I thought the points are all the the US collection.


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## youppi (Sep 2, 2018)

Each time you buy from DRI, you have a new contract for the amount of points you bought.
Log on your account and go to Ownership Summary. All your contracts will be listed there with the number of points for each.
So, if you have 7 contracts for a total of 17,500 pts, that means that you have bought 7 times with an average of 2,500 pts each time (7*2,500=17,500).
The disadvantage of having multiple contract is if you want to give back all your points then you will need to pay 7*$250=$1,750.
The advantage is if you want to keep some points and give back the rest then you can.


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

Bummer. I was fearing that but that still beats $45k


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## DRIless (Sep 2, 2018)

uss2defiant said:


> Thank you.
> Could you please clarify what you mean by various Collections?
> I thought the points are all the the US collection.


There's a US Collection, a Hawaii Collection, maybe a California Collection, maybe more?


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## DRIless (Sep 2, 2018)

youppi said:


> Each time you buy from DRI, you have a new contract for the amount of points you bought.
> Log on your account and go to Ownership Summary. All your contracts will be listed there with the number of points for each.
> So, if you have 7 contracts for a total of 17,500 pts, that means that you have bought 7 times with an average of 2,500 pts each time (7*2,500=17,500).
> The disadvantage of having multiple contract is if you want to give back all your points then you will need to pay 7*$250=$1,750.
> The advantage is if you want to keep some points and give back the rest then you can.


I've recently heard that that program is not active now.


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## youppi (Sep 2, 2018)

DRIless said:


> I've recently heard that that program is not active now.


If Transitions program is not active then DRI should remove it from the web site because I just login and clicked on Transitions and it said that my contract is eligible to give back.


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## nuwermj (Sep 2, 2018)

DRIless said:


> There's a US Collection, a Hawaii Collection, maybe a California Collection, maybe more?



There are nine DRI collections.

Transitions remains active. There is quota (5% of last year's sales), so the cap may have been reached this year.


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## uss2defiant (Sep 2, 2018)

Faxed and fedex the resciccion form.


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## uss2defiant (Sep 24, 2018)

Resciccion completed. Finally received a letter from them.

I hope this is not againat the forum rules.
Anyone can recommend a bank/personal loan to refinance they have used?

Thank you.


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## Shaleen Cullors (Dec 3, 2019)

nuwermj said:


> 1) A timeshare loan originating from Diamond Resorts will not have a prepayment penalty.
> 2) Trust the finance department before trusting the sales associate. You can check yourself: Log into your account; follow the navigation button labeled "Ownership Summary." This screen will show you each contract you have and the corresponding points.
> 3) You don't have deeds. You own shares of a pool of deeds. A trust fund owns the deeds and you own a share of the trust fund. Each point is a share. One can buy shares (points) in almost any block-quantity you'd like.
> 
> ...



I had just went through the presentation with a "membership advisor" only a few days ago at Cancun in Vegas. The same things were said to me about restructuring and about how I would end up paying the same amount anyway. It has me going back and forth about how it could save me money when he just added an extra 6500 points to equal 30000 points which adds on  an extra $1,100 and maintenance fees  and another  $26,000 purchasing price. He told me that  he  would help  me to refinance my loan in order to decrease my monthly payments and now that I would have Equity it would be easier to sell. It all sounded great but different phrases also stuck in my mind about how only I would be the one to blame if I passed it up and how he is sticking out his neck for me (subliminal abusive phrases).  I have a few days left before my cancellation date expires. Is it best to rescind even if I am unhappy with the payments and want to sell without equity?


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## artringwald (Dec 3, 2019)

Shaleen Cullors said:


> I had just went through the presentation with a "membership advisor" only a few days ago at Cancun in Vegas. The same things were said to me about restructuring and about how I would end up paying the same amount anyway. It has me going back and forth about how it could save me money when he just added an extra 6500 points to equal 30000 points which adds on  an extra $1,100 and maintenance fees  and another  $26,000 purchasing price. He told me that  he  would help  me to refinance my loan in order to decrease my monthly payments and now that I would have Equity it would be easier to sell. It all sounded great but different phrases also stuck in my mind about how only I would be the one to blame if I passed it up and how he is sticking out his neck for me (subliminal abusive phrases).  I have a few days left before my cancellation date expires. Is it best to rescind even if I am unhappy with the payments and want to sell without equity?


There is no equity in owning DRI points. They're difficult to give away, and many pay $1000 to DRI to take them back. Do not be deceived. As many TUG members will tell you, rescind according to exact instructions in the contract, and don't talk to and DRI sales rep on the phone. You can't trust anything they say. Any deal they offered will still be available if you do the research and discover that you really want to buy more points. Don't wait to rescind!


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## Shaleen Cullors (Dec 4, 2019)

artringwald said:


> There is no equity in owning DRI points. They're difficult to give away, and many pay $1000 to DRI to take them back. Do not be deceived. As many TUG members will tell you, rescind according to exact instructions in the contract, and don't talk to and DRI sales rep on the phone. You can't trust anything they say. Any deal they offered will still be available if you do the research and discover that you really want to buy more points. Don't wait to rescind!


Wow...thank you for clarifying  this information for me.. I actually had the nerve to be uneasy and almost believe what he said (because you are so desperate to do something about your situation you would ignore  all the caution signs). I will rescind..
God bless you!


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## DRIless (Dec 4, 2019)

Shaleen Cullors said:


> now that I would have Equity it would be easier to sell. .... Is it best to rescind even if I am unhappy with the payments and want to sell without equity?


ALL B.S. and you won't be able to sell unless it's paid off anyway and you'll then be lucky to move it for $1.00


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## Grammarhero (Dec 5, 2019)

Shaleen Cullors said:


> Wow...thank you for clarifying  this information for me.. I actually had the nerve to be uneasy and almost believe what he said (because you are so desperate to do something about your situation you would ignore  all the caution signs). I will rescind..
> God bless you!


You should rescind.  I own Diamond.  What you bought can rebought for $1.


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## Shaleen Cullors (Dec 6, 2019)

Iggyearl said:


> Please note that your rescission rights in Nevada include 5 calendar days.  You need to write a letter to Diamond corporate expressing your desire to rescind your latest contract.  It needs to be postmarked by 5 days after the signed contract.  There should be instructions in the contract as to the mailing address.  That will reset your relationship with Diamond back to where you were before the signing.  You should send your letter from any full service postal facility which is open 24 hours, and can give you a receipt of mailing.  If you miss this deadline, you will have a heck of a time getting rid of this contract.


Can you send a letter and the "timeshare notice of cancellation" page that is in the contract booklet?


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## Shaleen Cullors (Dec 6, 2019)

Shaleen Cullors said:


> Can you send a letter and the "timeshare notice of cancellation" page that is in the contract booklet?


I sent both but would need to cancel one if it would "confuse" them into rejecting me.


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## DanZale2000 (Dec 7, 2019)

Shaleen Cullors said:


> I sent both but would need to cancel one if it would "confuse" them into rejecting me.



If you mailed them before the deadline, they cannot reject you. They are legally required to accept your cancellation. If you have proof you sent it you're fine.


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## Shaleen Cullors (Dec 16, 2019)

Thank you for the answer to that one. I got the confirmation email on 12/9 from Diamond assuring they are diligently working on reviewing the rescission terms of the purchase.
Today I received an email and a text message from the financial department and a text from the membership advisor seeing to call them about an outstanding loan. To my knowledge the credit cards that they have given me are  paid on time and the loan from them should be automatically taken from my bank account because it is an auto-pay I do not have any outstanding loans


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## pedro47 (Dec 16, 2019)

Suggestion only, please check your online DRI accounts now and look to see do you have any outstanding debts and print it and saved it on your computer?

I am praying all your accounts are reflecting  zero “0” balances.
Also, please retain all your maintenance fees and their Club statements for three (3) years. Showing you have paid them in full with zero “0” balances.

Do not tell DRI what you are doing.


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## DRIless (Dec 17, 2019)

Shaleen Cullors said:


> and the loan from them should be automatically taken from my bank account because it is an auto-pay I do not have any outstanding loans


  An outstanding loan is any loan at all, not whether it is paid on time.


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## Shaleen Cullors (Dec 18, 2019)

Update: since they are in the process of rescinding the contract, they are no longer sending the new loan payment. Instead they sent the bill for my normal loan payment with a late charge added. Their way of saying you very much for cancelling.


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## R.J.C. (Dec 20, 2019)

Grammarhero said:


> You should rescind.  I own Diamond.  What you bought can rebought for $1.



Paying a dollar would be overpaying.


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## Shaleen Cullors (Feb 14, 2020)

R.J.C. said:


> Paying a dollar would be overpaying.


I just wanted to check in and say that I received my letter saying the contract has been cancelled. Once again thank you all for your answers and information. I gratefully appreciate it all.


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## Grammarhero (Feb 14, 2020)

Shaleen Cullors said:


> I just wanted to check in and say that I received my letter saying the contract has been cancelled. Once again thank you all for your answers and information. I gratefully appreciate it all.


Glad it worked out for you


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