# OCEAN CITY MD , Oceantime Non Compliant ADA Service Animal



## gumbow719 (Jul 7, 2019)

My last post about this was a year ago when Paradise Realty the management company charged myself and I am sure others with a Disability Service Animals a pet cleaning fee that is not allowed under ADA guidelines. In this past year , management has refused to understand the law and continues to charge a pet cleaning fee.My investigation into other timeshares in OC is ongoing pending my ADA and State filings. I can report that so far ALL of the timeshares that I have contacted to date in OC are compliant in NOT charging any fees, inclusive of pet cleaning fees for a Service Animal..they are somewhat hazy at times on what they can and can not require but are compliant for the most part. Paradise also manages Lighthouse Point Villas and Marlin Cove - Blue Marlin, also Charging pet cleaning fees for Service Animals..even states on their websites..an ADA violation
        I might add we have stayed at other timeshares totally 4 in the last year and have Never paid any fees for my Service Animal..They all recognized the ADA guidelines...
        MY advice if you have a disability and a Service Dog, call the timeshare ahead and ask the question, "what is your policy concerning Service Animals and are you charging any fees" if they are charging report them to ADA..in the long run with the money they will spend to fight ADA in a losing cause, would have been cheaper to comply with the law.. I hate to turn OC topsy turvy  with the ADA, State and Local violations, JUST COMPLY!!


----------



## e.bram (Jul 12, 2019)

Somebody has to pay to de flea the unit!


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 12, 2019)

I see this thread going down a rabbit hole...


----------



## gumbow719 (Jul 13, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> I see this thread going down a rabbit hole...


Wait for my ADA-DOJ AND STATE COMPLAINTS TO BE FILED..It will be a very costly rabbit hole for the timeshares in violation


----------



## gumbow719 (Jul 13, 2019)

e.bram said:


> Somebody has to pay to de flea the unit!


Not according to the law...it is not legally a dog it is a Service Animal with specifically trained functions for it's owner..not a pet thus not subject to any fees per ADA..My suits will cost aforementioned timeshares and their owners thousands of dollars to defend and ultimately loose,  the penalties will deplete their reserves..so warn the timeshares you own, if they charge fees, someone will file...


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 13, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Wait for my ADA-DOJ AND STATE COMPLAINTS TO BE FILED..It will be a very costly rabbit hole for the timeshares in violation


I guess I made that comment because someone will come along and mention that not all animals that people claim to be "emotional support" animals fall under ADA, then all heck will break loose.


----------



## e.bram (Jul 14, 2019)

Pets or service animals , dogs have fleas. Which will bite the next inhabitants.


----------



## gumbow719 (Jul 14, 2019)

e.bram said:


> Pets or service animals , dogs have fleas. Which will bite the next inhabitants.


Give it up..IT IS THE LAW ! It is the establishment's choice to clean it BUT can not charge for it


----------



## gumbow719 (Jul 14, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Give it up..IT IS THE LAW ! It is the establishment's choice to clean it BUT can not charge for it


Oops for got to mention in my post..Paradise charges 125 pet cleaning fee but you never see the cleaning of the unit thoroughly by a separate company after they charge for it. So they are possibly charging but not really cleaning, a great slush fund !!!


----------



## gumbow719 (Jul 28, 2019)

Heading to Oceatime and Paradise Management this Fri Aug 2nd..will hope against hope that Management has decided to abide by ADA law and not charge a fee for Serive Animals..we'll see...next stop if charged is US Dept of Justice ADA complaint against any/ all accommodations in Ocean City, Md violating the Law..stay tuned..


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 9, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Heading to Oceatime and Paradise Management this Fri Aug 2nd..will hope against hope that Management has decided to abide by ADA law and not charge a fee for Serive Animals..we'll see...next stop if charged is US Dept of Justice ADA complaint against any/ all accommodations in Ocean City, Md violating the Law..stay tuned..


Well was charged 125 for pet cleaning fee not allowed for Service Animal under ADA Law..Filed complaint with ADA today..Let the game begin,sadly it will cost Oceantime for non compliance ...will keep everyone posted as case progresses...


----------



## escanoe (Aug 9, 2019)

So if you tell them what the federal law is and probably show them a fact sheet, why are they so hard headed or think something makes them above complying with the law? I’ll bet you have left nice online reviews for them too. So short sighted on their part.


----------



## escanoe (Aug 9, 2019)

@gumbow719, just saw your review on Trip Advisor. You were more kind than I expected with your rating. As a relative newcomer to timesharing, I had intended to use some of my points for beach trips to Delmarva/Ocean City. But every time I start planning, it looks like I have better resorts and availability in VA beach. Mind if I ask what you like more about OC — if that is the case? Less urbanized area around it? I will eventually have a timeshare experience somewhere in the area just to satisfy my curiosity.


----------



## bbodb1 (Aug 9, 2019)

Among the problems you're likely to face here is this: our justice system is neither swift or predictable.


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 10, 2019)

escanoe said:


> @gumbow719, just saw your review on Trip Advisor. You were more kind than I expected with your rating. As a relative newcomer to timesharing, I had intended to use some of my points for beach trips to Delmarva/Ocean City. But every time I start planning, it looks like I have better resorts and availability in VA beach. Mind if I ask what you like more about OC — if that is the case? Less urbanized area around it? I will eventually have a timeshare experience somewhere in the area just to satisfy my curiosity.


Hello, Oceantime is a very clean 2bdrm beachy resort only 200 feet from the beach..it is on 136th street, the quiet end of OC..Ocean City is great because you can ride the bus for $3 all day, off n on if you wish. Over 55 get senior pass ,ride 1.50 a day at OC Vistor center in park at 125th street, bayside..It runs up n down coastal highway to the boardwalk n back again. Park your car n leave it parked for a week. Very conjested in summer, best times spring n fall after labor day. Lots of good restaurants reasonable..plenty to do..here is official website www.ococean.com..Ocean City schedule slot of events during the year..lots of fireworks too.  Nights may get a little crazy on the boardwalk in summer,many people, check live web CAMS on ocean city..
www.oceancitylive.com..take care, I hope I answered your questions, oh, lots of golf courses nearby. Be well, Bill


----------



## pedro47 (Aug 10, 2019)

gumbow719, Thanks You for mini review of the Oceantime Resort, it sounds nice.

I also just read your TripAdvisor review of your stay at that resort.


----------



## rainbows1957 (Aug 10, 2019)

Hi, Gumbow719--Could you copy and paste the part of the ADA law regarding this subject?  Since Ocean Time are timeshare condos that are owned by individuals, not a hotel, do you think that could be why they think the rules don't apply?


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 10, 2019)

It applies because we have stayed at other timeshares and have handled it correctly without charging any pet cleaning fees, a Service Animal by definition is not a pet but provides a Service, so no pet fees of any kind applies..By Law they cannot ask for any documentation, they can only ask 2 questions of the Service Animal owner, 1. Do you have a disability? Answer yes or no, 2. What Service or services is your Animal trained to perform?? Due to Pivacy of Information Laws that is it.....just Google ADA Laws regarding Service Animals..hope this helps..Oceantime is looking at possibility of some hefty fees from the DOJ ADA, all this because they have their heads in the sand..no pun intended..owe as to it is owned by individuals, timeshares rent units to non owners so it is a " hotel "


----------



## bbodb1 (Aug 10, 2019)

All timeshares are not the same.
ADA does not apply everywhere.


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 10, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> All timeshares are not the same.
> ADA does not apply everywhere.


Agree to disagree..I always call ahead and have never been charged any pet fees from all the timeshares we have traded into, including our own timeshares...I will post the ADA results and how much the "timeshare" has been sanctioned. Stay tuned !!!


----------



## rainbows1957 (Aug 10, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> It applies because we have stayed at other timeshares and have handled it correctly without charging any pet cleaning fees, a Service Animal by definition is not a pet but provides a Service, so no pet fees of any kind applies..By Law they cannot ask for any documentation, they can only ask 2 questions of the Service Animal owner, 1. Do you have a disability? Answer yes or no, 2. What Service or services is your Animal trained to perform?? Due to Pivacy of Information Laws that is it.....just Google ADA Laws regarding Service Animals..hope this helps..Oceantime is looking at possibility of some hefty fees from the DOJ ADA, all this because they have their heads in the sand..no pun intended..owe as to it is owned by individuals, timeshares rent units to non owners so it is a " hotel "



Thanks for the info.  I guess what I mostly was asking--what is the legal definition of "hotel" and if timeshares that are privately owned condo weeks would fall under the definition of "hotel"?  Have you seen ADA guidelines on this?  If so, can you copy and paste in here?  I really like Ocean Time and I would like to know what the actual law/guidelines say. What reason do they give for disputing your request?


----------



## bbodb1 (Aug 10, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Agree to disagree..I always call ahead and have never been charged any pet fees from all the timeshares we have traded into, including our own timeshares...I will post the ADA results and how much the "timeshare" has been sanctioned. Stay tuned !!!



@gumbow719 - Since you've peaked my curiosity on this subject, I came across this page: https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/factsheets/title3_factsheet.html

Might Summary item 9 apply?

@rainbows1957 - please see this as well..


----------



## rainbows1957 (Aug 10, 2019)

That 2010 Highlights Factsheet you linked is rather vague and I would rather see the actual regulation but I couldn't find it. In my view, Ocean Time does not "operate like a hotel".  Everyone owns their timeshare week like real property and pays real estate tax.  Some choose to rent their week out or trade their week through RCI, but I don't see that as operating like a hotel.
"Timeshares, Condominium Hotels, and Other Places of Lodging. The rule provides that timeshare and condominium properties that operate like hotels are subject to title III. The rule also provides guidance about the factors that must be present for a facility that is not an inn, motel, or hotel to qualify as a place of lodging. The final rule limits obligations for units that are not owned or substantially controlled by a public accommodation that operates a place of lodging."


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 10, 2019)

rainbows1957 said:


> That 2010 Highlights Factsheet you linked is rather vague and I would rather see the actual regulation but I couldn't find it. In my view, Ocean Time does not "operate like a hotel".  Everyone owns their timeshare week like real property and pays real estate tax.  Some choose to rent their week out or trade their week through RCI, but I don't see that as operating like a hotel.
> "Timeshares, Condominium Hotels, and Other Places of Lodging. The rule provides that timeshare and condominium properties that operate like hotels are subject to title III. The rule also provides guidance about the factors that must be present for a facility that is not an inn, motel, or hotel to qualify as a place of lodging. The final rule limits obligations for units that are not owned or substantially controlled by a public accommodation that operates a place of lodging."



Just a Funny thing every and I mean every timeshare we have stayed at were and are aware of ADA guidelines regarding bonafide, trained Service Animals..Any  RCI resort states in their fees section, "contact the resort regarding ADA pet policy..Everyone we have contacted accepted our Service Animal and when questioned and agreed by law, they could not charge any fees for the Service Animal....So the masses do not charge any fees....those that violate the law, will probably someday face a rather large fee for non compliance. You mentioned timeshare owners rent their week out, that is the keyword "rent"...the ADA also applies to homeaway, vrbo and Airbnb..


----------



## rainbows1957 (Aug 10, 2019)

I really don't think someone renting a timeshare week makes them equivalent to a "hotel" (public accommodation) under ADA.  If you come across the ACTUAL ADA law/guidelines, please share.  Did you know that Ocean Time only allows owners to bring a dog normally, not renters or RCI traders?  Are you an Ocean Time owner, or did they accommodate your service animal?  As an owner at Ocean Time, I want the management company to follow the law, but you haven't convinced me yet that they are in violation of anything for our timeshare situation.


----------



## tschwa2 (Aug 10, 2019)

This is a relatively recent change with Ocean Time- maybe 2 years.  Perhaps (hopefully) they consulted with an attorney and there have been recent changes on the way the law is interpreted for timeshares especially those with less than 20 units.  Gunbow filed his/her complaint and will keep us appraised of the result of the complaint.  I am not an attorney but fairly familiar with the ADA and how it applies to workplace accommodations but not so much on the nitty gritty as it relates to timeshares and what constitutes "operating like a hotel"    Hotel branded timeshares with 24 hr front desks and daily check in/outs certainly operate like a hotel.  I am not sure that a 20 unit timeshare with an off site check in with fairly limited hours that only allow check in's during certain days of the week constitute operating like a hotel.  

I guess we will find out.


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 10, 2019)

rainbows1957 said:


> I really don't think someone renting a timeshare week makes them equivalent to a "hotel" (public accommodation) under ADA.  If you come across the ACTUAL ADA law/guidelines, please share.  Did you know that Ocean Time only allows owners to bring a dog normally, not renters or RCI traders?  Are you an Ocean Time owner, or did they accommodate your service animal?  As an owner at Ocean Time, I want the management company to follow the law, but you haven't convinced me yet that they are in violation of anything for our timeshare situation.


We are owners but by they do accommodate Service Animals for the same pet fee they charge non service animals..there is the glitch you can not charge the same fees charged to pets because the Service Animal by definition is not a pet but provides a Service this is not an emotional support Animal which can and does require documentation, specifically a doctors letter. When the ADA charges Oceatime with the violations I will be glad to post..Please keep in mind I have tried for over a year to give Oceatime all the torts and I guess they do not know how to read..oh well..not my problem anymore..only owners or Service Animals and emotional support animals allowed but all get a pet cleaning fee, again Service Dogs are exempt from any fees..Rainbows I do not have to convince anyone of anything let the ADA settle this once and for all. The case has been filed...


----------



## pedro47 (Aug 10, 2019)

Sounds liked renters and exchangers can not bring service animals into this complex without paying for a special assessment to clean Ocean Time villas. IMO.

This is going to open up many various legal and non legal  opinions from many service organizations.


----------



## rainbows1957 (Aug 10, 2019)

Pedro47--Ocean Time Owners that bring a dog have to pay a cleaning fee.  Renters and exchangers are not normally allowed to bring a dog at all.  The question is whether the Ocean Time timeshares (a small condo) are covered by the ADA requirements as being equivalent to a hotel.  Gumbow will let us know the results of her complaint....


----------



## escanoe (Aug 10, 2019)

Here is an article on timeshares and the ADA. I am pretty sure @gumbow719 is right on this. If a place is not complying with ADA, that should have been listed on RCI or whatever exchange is being used.

The ADA generally applies to timeshares, and I will bet service dog stuff applies broader than the accommodations requirements described here.

https://www.thetimeshareauthority.com/2007/10/19/timeshares-and-the-americans-with-disabilities-act/


----------



## bbodb1 (Aug 11, 2019)

escanoe said:


> Here is an article on timeshares and the ADA. I am pretty sure @gumbow719 is right on this. If a place is not complying with ADA, that should have been listed on RCI or whatever exchange is being used.
> 
> The ADA generally applies to timeshares, and I will bet service dog stuff applies broader than the accommodations requirements described here.
> 
> https://www.thetimeshareauthority.com/2007/10/19/timeshares-and-the-americans-with-disabilities-act/



@escanoe - did you happen to note how old that article is?  To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that it is no longer valid, rather nearly 12 years have elapsed since your article was written and it is certainly a possibility there have been developments in this area. 

@gumbow719 (and others) - allow me a moment to comment further on what peaked my interest in this matter.  First of all, if you check out my avatar you'll see that traveling with my furry friends is something I'd love to be able to do more of.  I love dogs.  I have not followed a thread on this subject on TUG in quite some time (if ever), but there have been many discussions on service animals on TUG (mostly on airplanes but I think occasionally in timeshares as well).  The problems and issues surrounding people misusing and abusing the service animal designation are getting worse as days go by.  

Please correct this assumption if I am incorrect, but are you (Gumbow719) referring to a legitimate service animal - some examples would be leader dogs for the blind, medical detection dog (detects imminent seizures for example), balance assisting dogs, and/or other such legitimate service animal duties.  

When I first saw this thread 
*Oceantime Non Compliant ADA Service Animal*
please understand that title can be read more than one way.  Is the service animal not compliant with ADA regulations?  In reading this thread further, I don't believe that is what you mean - I'm assuming you believe the Oceantime resort is not in compliance with regulations with respect to ADA compliant service animals.  

So why my interest - 2 experiences with service animals at the school I work at.  Both animals were legitimate service animals performing a needed function for their human companion.  One was a vision assist dog, the other was a balance assist dog.  Both fantastic animals and served as inspirations for discussions with students.  

My other experience was in designing an ADA compliant access for several computer work stations.  

I say all of that to conclude with this - if your goal here is to ensure access for a legitimate service dog, more power to you and the best of luck.  I'll be interested in following the developments. 
The efforts by too many people to misuse the Service Animal designation have made legitimate efforts increasingly difficult.


----------



## escanoe (Aug 11, 2019)

rainbows1957 said:


> I really don't think someone renting a timeshare week makes them equivalent to a "hotel" (public accommodation) under ADA.



They are likely to have to comply regardless of this discussion about being "hotel" equivalent. That, said whoever manages the property is renting weeks commercially as "extra" vacations on RCI. That seems pretty close to being commercial to me.


----------



## joestein (Aug 12, 2019)

Maybe we can just have some consideration for families that stay in the unit after the OP.   Pay a cleaning fee to cover the cleaning of YOUR USE so they can enjoy their unit without any pests or dander.    How about someone who has serious allergic reactions or even worse, suffers a flea infestation.

Regardless of the law, it is the RIGHT thing to do.   Especially better than gloating how many thousands you are going to cost the resort.


----------



## davidvel (Aug 12, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> @gumbow719 - Since you've peaked my curiosity on this subject, I came across this page: https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/factsheets/title3_factsheet.html
> 
> Might Summary item 9 apply?
> 
> @rainbows1957 - please see this as well..


I don't  see anything about dogs (or mini horses), and the end of item 9 says:
Such units are not subject to reservation requirements relating to the "holding back" of accessible units nor are they subject to the rule's barrier removal and alterations requirements if the physical features of the guest room interiors are controlled by their individual owners rather than by a third party operator.


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 12, 2019)

Again,then why are most if not all timeshares are abiding by ADA rules and not charging pet cleaning fees..they are afraid of something aren't they ?   Violation of ADA carries some hefty fines...


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 12, 2019)

joestein said:


> Maybe we can just have some consideration for families that stay in the unit after the OP.   Pay a cleaning fee to cover the cleaning of YOUR USE so they can enjoy their unit without any pests or dander.    How about someone who has serious allergic reactions or even worse, suffers a flea infestation.
> 
> Regardless of the law, it is the RIGHT thing to do.   Especially better than gloating how many thousands you are going to cost the resort.


Not gonna happen....if  I do not bring the ADA somebody else will...the owner of Paradise , the management company of Oceantime once expressed his displeasure for the ADA and the rules he has to comply with at an annual meeting...Now he will hate them more...oh and the cleaning fee is for special cleaning which is never done after a pet occupies the units..5 dogs recently, stayed on site saw no special cleaning...so where is the money going, back into budget to balance the books..I have asked for who and what bills were submitted for this supposedly cleaning fee? Over a year later, no answer because there is no pet cleaning just routine turnover vacuming....


----------



## joestein (Aug 12, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Not gonna happen....if  I do not bring the ADA somebody else will...the owner of Paradise , the management company of Oceantime once expressed his displeasure for the ADA and the rules he has to comply with at an annual meeting...Now he will hate them more...oh and the cleaning fee is for special cleaning which is never done after a pet occupies the units..5 dogs recently, stayed on site saw no special cleaning...so where is the money going, back into budget to balance the books..I have asked for who and what bills were submitted for this supposedly cleaning fee? Over a year later, no answer because there is no pet cleaning just routine turnover vacuming....



I have quite a few questions...

1 - You are not an owner as you stated.  How do you know what he said at an annual meeting?  If posted online - please link.

2 - Why do you think that the management should show you bills for their expenses?   I am sure if I walked into a timeshare and asked to see the bills, they would tell me no.  Even I owned there.

3 - How do you know there was no special cleaning to units that had dogs?   Were all 5 units next to each other so you could view all 5 at one time?    5 units with dogs seems likes an awful lot of dogs for a timeshare that doesn't allow dogs.   I have never seen a dog at any timeshare I have stayed, yet 5 service dogs at one time at a timeshare that has only 30 units?


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 12, 2019)

joestein said:


> I have quite a few questions...
> 
> 1 - You are not an owner as you stated.  How do you know what he said at an annual meeting?  If posted online - please link.
> 
> ...


I never said  I was not an owner, if you read I referred to attending a Board yearly meeting only owners attend thus I am an owner therefore should have access to what is spent and to whom...this is not the case..no transparency you can not even send the Board anything unless addressed to the management company..by the way this management company also manages two other timeshares in Ocean City also in violation of the same ADA violations..see a pattern here? Interestingly all other timeshares in Ocean City do not charge pet fees for a Service Animal,, only Paradise Managing them...pattern....I noted at least 5 animals staying there..service animals or not no specialized cleaning or disinfecting any units was done after animals staying there so the special cleaning fees go into the general fund on the timeshare with no expenditure for special cleaning, notice a pattern again..I am done refutting..Wait for the ADA Sanctions they are coming and at what cost for not complying..really stupid management..the other timeshares are Lighthouse Point Villas and Marlin Cove -Blue Marlin both on RCI..It will cost them as well if the ADA pursues them as well as a Lateral  Investigation


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 12, 2019)

Anyone who reads this post and is an owner of Oceantime or the other two timeshares...if you know how to get the Boards of those timeshares advise them to make Paradise Management comply with the ADA regarding Service Animals not being charged a cleaning fee, then they can contact me via US mail and upon receipt of their declaration of compliance, I will consider dropping my ADA complaint , saving them alot of money..being an Oceantime owner they have my address and are aware of the recent filing with the ADA..I have always been open to compromise but apparently after trying for the past year..they have shown no desire..


----------



## escanoe (Aug 12, 2019)

joestein said:


> Maybe we can just have some consideration for families that stay in the unit after the OP.   Pay a cleaning fee to cover the cleaning of YOUR USE so they can enjoy their unit without any pests or dander.



Congress has said all of us have to pay a little more for accommodations to make sure the legally disabled will have reasonable accommodations. I think federal law prohibiting discrimination against the disable will afford @gumbow719 some protection here, and we will find out what happens to his complaint. Almost anyone relying on a service dog will be sure the animal is treated for fleas. It’s on all of us, under the law to make sure they have reasonable accommodations. 

You for charging people in wheel chairs that use ramps “for their use” so the rest of us don’t have to pay?


----------



## gumbow719 (Aug 15, 2019)

Update HUD representing ADA violation has begun their investigation initiating contact with this writer today . How quick was that for all the government doubters, it even surprised me....keep you all updated as things evolve..


----------



## Sandy VDH (Aug 15, 2019)

decide to start new tread....


----------



## escanoe (Aug 16, 2019)

rainbows1957 said:


> I really don't think someone renting a timeshare week makes them equivalent to a "hotel" (public accommodation) under ADA.



It does not look like the law, regulations, or agency guidance are explicit and you have to get into looking at court cases.

Here is what appears to be a solid article from a lawyer specializing in such matters titled: Housing Provider Obligations Under the FHA and ADA: Do I Need to Allow Service & Assistance Animals in My Short-Term Vacation Rental?

Based on the analysis in the article timeshares will be covered by the Fair Housing Act (FHA) which requires allowing service animals without charging a fee. The whole article speaks to what is required in relation to what accommodations the disabled have a right to, but here is the relevant passage on courts applying the FHA to timeshares:

Courts have found a number of temporary residences to be dwellings under the FHA including, without limitation, homeless shelters, timeshare units, summer bungalows to which one regularly returns, migrant farm worker cabins, a womens’ shelter, and a drug and alcohol treatment facility.​It still seemed like an open question to me after reading the whole article if a timeshare would be treated as a “hotel like accommodation” under the Americans With Disabilities Act. But that is a moot point and an academic exercise, the FHA should guarantee @gumbow719 the accommodation he is seeking in this case based on the article.


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 13, 2019)

Heading back to Oceantime on Friday 9/20..ADA case all filed, hopefully the ADA has contacted Oceantime and they, Oceantime has seen the light...I will post if I am charged another "pet cleaning fee " for my Service Animal....can't wait for sanctions and my refund of monies for the past two years..


----------



## pedro47 (Sep 13, 2019)

gumbow719, please keep us updated on the results. Please enjoy your week at Oceantime.
The key, everyone here want you to have Total R & R at Oceantime. IMHO.


----------



## hk4481 (Sep 13, 2019)

I am highly allergic to cats and dogs and have already had a vacation almost ruined by the lack of courtesy by a previous guest.  I do like animals, but feel hotels and timeshare resorts need to police and enforce their rules regarding pets.


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 14, 2019)

hk4481 said:


> I am highly allergic to cats and dogs and have already had a vacation almost ruined by the lack of courtesy by a previous guest.  I do like animals, but feel hotels and timeshare resorts need to police and enforce their rules regarding pets.


This resort does not allow cats..


----------



## davidvel (Sep 14, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Heading back to Oceantime on Friday 9/20..ADA case all filed, hopefully the ADA has contacted Oceantime and they, Oceantime has seen the light...I will post if I am charged another "pet cleaning fee " for my Service Animal....can't wait for sanctions and my refund of monies for the past two years..


I may have missed it, but where does the ADA state you don't have to pay a pet cleaning fee? If my special needs child vomits and defecates all over the room, am I exempt from paying for the cleaning under the ADA?


----------



## tschwa2 (Sep 14, 2019)

davidvel said:


> I may have missed it, but where does the ADA state you don't have to pay a pet cleaning fee? If my special needs child vomits and defecates all over the room, am I exempt from paying for the cleaning under the ADA?


Making excessive messes aren't covered but normal ware and tear from the accommodation is covered without addition fee.  You can't charge someone to install or use a pool lift or grab bars in the bath room.  You can't charge for the additional cleaning from simply having a trained service animal in the unit.


----------



## davidvel (Sep 14, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> Making excessive messes aren't covered but normal ware and tear from the accommodation is covered without addition fee.  You can't charge someone to install or use a pool lift or grab bars in the bath room.  You can't charge for the additional cleaning from simply having a trained service animal in the unit.


That may be the case, I was just wondering where it says this. The animal's presence can severely affect other guests with disabilities, who would consider the animal's air and dander excessively dirty.  Or the vomiting is not excessive given the child's medical conditions.


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 14, 2019)

davidvel said:


> That may be the case, I was just wondering where it says this. The animal's presence can severely affect other guests with disabilities, who would consider the animal's air and dander excessively dirty.  Or the vomiting is not excessive given the child's medical conditions.


Suggest you research ADA laws regarding Service Animals..the glitch is the Service Animal is trained and provides a Service to its owner, thus it is not a 'Pet" thus not subject to Pet fees..Any further clarification take it up with ADA or State of Md ,which has their own interpretations, but no fees for Service Animals.....I will post the results of my ADA complaint..it will take a while if Oceantime keeps their collective heads in the sand and wastes owners association money in a losing cause..All other, I repeat ALL other RCi timeshares in Ocean City, except 2 others managed by Paradise Realty Inc, all comply with ADA and charged no Pet Cleaning fees for Service Animals...so all 3 timeshares managed by Paradise, get ready to spend thousands of dollars unnecessarily...I guess everyone else is wrong???


----------



## tschwa2 (Sep 14, 2019)

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
*Q12. Can hotels charge a cleaning fee for guests who have service animals?*
No. Hotels are not permitted to charge guests for cleaning the hair or dander shed by a service animal. However, if a guest's service animal causes damages to a guest room, a hotel is permitted to charge the same fee for damages as charged to other guests.

The animal itself is the accommodation.  You can't charge for what the law considers reasonable accommodation- which is what a service animal is.


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 14, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Suggest you research ADA laws regarding Service Animals..the glitch is the Service Animal is trained and provides a Service to its owner, thus it is not a 'Pet" thus not subject to Pet fees..Any further clarification take it up with ADA or State of Md ,which has their own interpretations, but no fees for Service Animals.....I will post the results of my ADA complaint..it will take a while if Oceantime keeps their collective heads in the sand and wastes owners association money in a losing cause..All other, I repeat ALL other RCi timeshares in Ocean City, except 2 others managed by Paradise Realty Inc, all comply with ADA and charged no Pet Cleaning fees for Service Animals...so all 3 timeshares managed by Paradise, get ready to spend thousands of dollars unnecessarily...I guess everyone else is wrong???


Oh I forgot the monies collected for special pet cleaning are never done week to week like they should so where's that money going, makes you wonder!!!!!the units that contained dogs the week before never get cleaned before a next occupant..


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 14, 2019)

davidvel said:


> I may have missed it, but where does the ADA state you don't have to pay a pet cleaning fee? If my special needs child vomits and defecates all over the room, am I exempt from paying for the cleaning under the ADA?


Is your special needs child a Service animal don't think so..the law is the law...just wait for how much these timeshares get sanctioned ,on top of court costs,attorneys  fees etc..it would have been far cheaper to obey ADA..


----------



## tschwa2 (Sep 14, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Suggest you research ADA laws regarding Service Animals..the glitch is the Service Animal is trained and provides a Service to its owner, thus it is not a 'Pet" thus not subject to Pet fees..Any further clarification take it up with ADA or State of Md ,which has their own interpretations, but no fees for Service Animals.....I will post the results of my ADA complaint..it will take a while if Oceantime keeps their collective heads in the sand and wastes owners association money in a losing cause..All other, I repeat ALL other RCi timeshares in Ocean City, except 2 others managed by Paradise Realty Inc, all comply with ADA and charged no Pet Cleaning fees for Service Animals...so all 3 timeshares managed by Paradise, get ready to spend thousands of dollars unnecessarily...I guess everyone else is wrong???



I think they are waiting to see what the actual punishment is.  If the result of the complain is they have to refund your cleaning cost and pay something nominal- say $100 per incident.  My guess is they will continue and it might spread to other businesses.  Especially if currently they have 20 people yearly claiming service dog and only 2 or 3 go the step to file a complaint.    I remember when I was younger I saw a sign on an elevator about not smoking and the if prosecuted the person could be subject to a fee of up to $10.    For that a penalty like that, you might as well just smoke if you feel like it.  The ADA itself doesn't as far as I know specify specific punishment for violating and the fee could be very large or very small or not at all.  As I have been saying I would love to hear the result of your complaint.  You seem confident that you will make out well.  Paradise properties probably thinks they will make out ahead.  I guess we will see.


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 15, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> I think they are waiting to see what the actual punishment is.  If the result of the complain is they have to refund your cleaning cost and pay something nominal- say $100 per incident.  My guess is they will continue and it might spread to other businesses.  Especially if currently they have 20 people yearly claiming service dog and only 2 or 3 go the step to file a complaint.    I remember when I was younger I saw a sign on an elevator about not smoking and the if prosecuted the person could be subject to a fee of up to $10.    For that a penalty like that, you might as well just smoke if you feel like it.  The ADA itself doesn't as far as I know specify specific punishment for violating and the fee could be very large or very small or not at all.  As I have been saying I would love to hear the result of your complaint.  You seem confident that you will make out well.  Paradise properties probably thinks they will make out ahead.  I guess we will see.


Thanks for reply. Paradise has a scam going charging 125 for pet cleaning fees and then never cleaning the units properly..same old vacuuming by change over staff..Paradise puts over 7500 year into the coffers without doing anything special..owners are allowed dogs only, up to 2 at 125 each..Service animal population I do not know but the law is the law and no matter they can not charge a fee for a Service Animal..I wonder if I was not an owner would they turn me away so FHA is probably involved as well as ADA. I can file a private suit also can get State of MD involved if I wanted too. Giving Oceantime a break to defend just one suit at a time..multiple fronts would kill their budget...ADA sanctions will do enough damage and lesson to be learned ..info Paradise at an annual meeting of Oceantime years ago..expressed verbally how he hated to comply with all this ADA stuff,railings,tub bars etc..it costs money...well yeah now it is going to cost a bundle for non compliance with ADA....thanks again  penalty is thousands of dollars not just 100 per..just researched violation of Title III is 55,000 to 75,000  dollars, second offense 110,000 to 150,000 ...realy stupid on Oceantimes part..


----------



## ocowner (Sep 15, 2019)

Although I understand this thread is about an individual's pursuit of legal rights, I do question how the discussion of ADA issues is not political, and therefore not subject to being closed by a moderator?


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 15, 2019)

Because ADA is an ACT that we are posting .The clarification of what that Act says is not political...nice try !!


----------



## escanoe (Sep 15, 2019)

ocowner said:


> Although I understand this thread is about an individual's pursuit of legal rights, I do question how the discussion of ADA issues is not political, and therefore not subject to being closed by a moderator?



Legal rights/protections given by the government to timeshare owners users (including disabled ones) has to be about as relevant to issues discussed on TUG as any thread could be.


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 17, 2019)

escanoe said:


> @gumbow719, just saw your review on Trip Advisor. You were more kind than I expected with your rating. As a relative newcomer to timesharing, I had intended to use some of my points for beach trips to Delmarva/Ocean City. But every time I start planning, it looks like I have better resorts and availability in VA beach. Mind if I ask what you like more about OC — if that is the case? Less urbanized area around it? I will eventually have a timeshare experience somewhere in the area just to satisfy my curiosity.


Oops missed your post. Ocean City is best visited in spring and fall less crowded..install Google Earth on your computer and search Ocean city,md..best way to visit anywhere to get lay of the land..hope this helps..many restaurants..good beachy timeshares, not the Ritz but very comfortable


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 21, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> All timeshares are not the same.
> ADA does not apply everywhere.


Wrong they are for timeshares..latest info arrived early there were pets from previous week, no special cleaning as per pet fees...so beware allergy suffers management is collecting fee without providing service..that is fraud in my line of work..next stop States Attorneys office for Wicomico County...Now Oceantime will fight ADA on Service Dog violations and a separate fraud charge, when will they learn..???


----------



## pedro47 (Sep 21, 2019)

Dumb question why does the resort charged for pet cleaning and then do not do anything special after a pet had stay in the ts unit?


----------



## tschwa2 (Sep 21, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Dumb question why does the resort charged for pet cleaning and then do not do anything special after a pet had stay in the ts unit?



Apparently per a previous post it seems like the OP know nothing special is done because they have never seen anything special being done.  I own at Ocean time and I've never seen them do any cleaning because I check out by 10 and don't hide in the closet or stuck to the ceiling like spiderman watching to see what they do when they clean.  Apparently the OP has watched after a pet stay and after a non pet stay at the resort.



gumbow719 said:


> Not gonna happen....if  I do not bring the ADA somebody else will...the owner of Paradise , the management company of Oceantime once expressed his displeasure for the ADA and the rules he has to comply with at an annual meeting...Now he will hate them more...oh and the cleaning fee is for special cleaning which is never done after a pet occupies the units..5 dogs recently, stayed on site saw no special cleaning...so where is the money going, back into budget to balance the books..I have asked for who and what bills were submitted for this supposedly cleaning fee? Over a year later, no answer because there is no pet cleaning just routine turnover vacuming....





gumbow719 said:


> Oh I forgot the monies collected for special pet cleaning are never done week to week like they should so where's that money going, makes you wonder!!!!!the units that contained dogs the week before never get cleaned before a next occupant..





gumbow719 said:


> Thanks for reply. Paradise has a scam going charging 125 for pet cleaning fees and then never cleaning the units properly..same old vacuuming by change over staff..Paradise puts over 7500 year into the coffers without doing anything special..owners are allowed dogs only, up to 2 at 125 each..Service animal population I do not know but the law is the law and no matter they can not charge a fee for a Service Animal..I wonder if I was not an owner would they turn me away so FHA is probably involved as well as ADA. I can file a private suit also can get State of MD involved if I wanted too. Giving Oceantime a break to defend just one suit at a time..multiple fronts would kill their budget...ADA sanctions will do enough damage and lesson to be learned ..info Paradise at an annual meeting of Oceantime years ago..expressed verbally how he hated to comply with all this ADA stuff,railings,tub bars etc..it costs money...well yeah now it is going to cost a bundle for non compliance with ADA....thanks again  penalty is thousands of dollars not just 100 per..just researched violation of Title III is 55,000 to 75,000  dollars, second offense 110,000 to 150,000 ...realy stupid on Oceantimes part..


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 21, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Dumb question why does the resort charged for pet cleaning and then do not do anything special after a pet had stay in the ts unit?


Answer is simply to make money pretending to special clean after a pet is in a unit...Paradise put revenues estimated for 2019 in the budget to be 7500 dollars,  and they are special cleaning nothing. Pet units need to be steam cleaned or shampooed,  yet nothing other then normal weekly vacuuming is being done...$$$$$$ When I asked Paradise for documentation they ignored my request and I too am an owner..Paradise will not let you contact the Board or anyone about anything..At the March meeting somebody please bring this up.!!!!!!


----------



## davidvel (Sep 21, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Answer is simply to make money pretending to special clean after a pet is in a unit...Paradise put revenues estimated for 2019 in the budget to be 7500 dollars,  and they are special cleaning nothing. Pet units need to be steam cleaned or shampooed,  yet nothing other then normal weekly vacuuming is being done...$$$$$$ When I asked Paradise for documentation they ignored my request and I too am an owner..Paradise will not let you contact the Board or anyone about anything..At the March meeting somebody please bring this up.!!!!!!


Sad for whatever disability you have, it clearly consumes you.


----------



## escanoe (Sep 21, 2019)

davidvel said:


> Sad for whatever disability you have, it clearly consumes you.



To each his own. That is not my take away from this thread. To everyone with a disability that deserves to be treated fairly ... thank heavens society as a whole (through laws) has spoken and someone like @gumbow719 is there to make sure rights are protected.

It is not earth shattering to me that those seeking to make money in the hospitality industry would charge the rank and file a pet cleaning fee and not do any extra cleaning as a matter of routine for pets.

But said profiteer deserves a special place in hell that are in all likelihood illegally (and in all certainty, amorally) charging handicapped folks a pet fee for service animals just to line their pockets (they are not even entitled under the law to collect it if they do a special cleaning.)

I am all about using TUG to minimize my timeshare costs. But I draw the line at wishing for HOAs to save a buck or two by screwing over the handicapped.


----------



## Miss Marty (Sep 21, 2019)

Years ago,
We had two prime weeks reserved at Ocean Time..

One for the last week of June and the other for the week of 4th of July.
When we checked in, we found the carpet in the unit to be wet & slippery!

They had just cleaned the carpet
earlier that day and it was not dry.
I almost fell a couple of times.

The unit had a pet odor and a strong
odor from the carpet cleaning solution.

We contacted the office and was told the carpet had been cleaned
after a family with a pet stayed in the unit. It was a hot and humid
day and even with air conditioning everything still felt moist & wet.

Management was unable to move us
but offered to exchange the sheets & linens.

We checked out early the next morning, losing two weeks vacation.
I deeded my weeks back and only spent one miserable night there.


----------



## tschwa2 (Sep 21, 2019)

Miss Marty,Hopefully you got some money for prime deedback.  Even now you probably could have sold those deeds for $1000+ and several years back you probably could have gotten $2000-$4000 per deed.


----------



## pedro47 (Sep 22, 2019)

Dumb Question #2. Is it false advertising when a timeshare resort is stating that they will clean the villa / unit after someone with a pet have stay in the villa/unit?


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 22, 2019)

davidvel said:


> Sad for whatever disability you have, it clearly consumes you.


No the law and rules consumes me....these laws are to protect individuals...I would guess your game is breaking the law...that's sad !!


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 22, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Dumb Question #2. Is it false advertising when a timeshare resort is stating that they will clean the villa / unit after someone with a pet have stay in the villa/unit?


No they State in their Welcoming letter"This fee is to help with dander, hair, and extermination charge due to allergies of owners and other guests" but THEY DO NOT EXTERMINATE ANYTHING, they take the 125 fee and do just normal weekly cleaning of units..they DO NOT use the money for exterminating anything..Big Scam !!!


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 22, 2019)

Miss Marty said:


> Years ago,
> We had two prime weeks reserved at Ocean Time..
> 
> One for the last week of June and the other for the week of 4th of July.
> ...


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 22, 2019)

I realy doubt it !!!! I have done surveillances on the building and no steam cleaning what so ever..maybe just maybe they did a unit..Time does not allow them to properly steam clean where all pets are from week to week. They do not have spare units to assign waiting for rugs to dry..they are too small...Want definitive proof ask for cleaning bill's, then contact the cleaning company to make sure the invoices aren't bogus..To date I as an owner requested that information and they have not provided the information, if they had nothing to hide they would comply...interesting isn't it!!  It is a CASH COW !!


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 22, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Dumb Question #2. Is it false advertising when a timeshare resort is stating that they will clean the villa / unit after someone with a pet have stay in the villa/unit?


Not false advertising it is billing for services not rendered..just like you take your car in for oil change, you get car back ..you later check the oil it is black..they never changed it but billed for it. Billing for services not rendered is fraud..


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 22, 2019)

rainbows1957 said:


> I really don't think someone renting a timeshare week makes them equivalent to a "hotel" (public accommodation) under ADA.  If you come across the ACTUAL ADA law/guidelines, please share.  Did you know that Ocean Time only allows owners to bring a dog normally, not renters or RCI traders?  Are you an Ocean Time owner, or did they accommodate your service animal?  As an owner at Ocean Time, I want the management company to follow the law, but you haven't convinced me yet that they are in violation of anything for our timeshare situation.


Tired of posting the laws of ADA....explain this, every timeshare we have stayed at complies with ADA regarding Service Animals..no charge in anyway for that Animal. Have you read my posts Oceantime/Paradise charges pet cleaning fees for owners pets as well as illegal charging Service Animals BUT the catch is they are not exterminating the units that contained the pets on a weekly use basis thus they pocket the fee and do not clean for dander,pet hair etc..while charging 125 that is illegal because we are paying for a Service that was not rendered thus fraud, needless to mention not very healthy for an allergy sufferer...yes I am an owner and if you are as well I would ask at the March annual meeting for the accountability of charging and not cleaning per charge..by the way when Oceantime loses you can thank Paradise and the Board for burying their heads in the sand..by the way I do not have to convince anyone of anything..The ADA Will do that through its sanctions..


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 23, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Just a Funny thing every and I mean every timeshare we have stayed at were and are aware of ADA guidelines regarding bonafide, trained Service Animals..Any  RCI resort states in their fees section, "contact the resort regarding ADA pet policy..Everyone we have contacted accepted our Service Animal and when questioned and agreed by law, they could not charge any fees for the Service Animal....So the masses do not charge any fees....those that violate the law, will probably someday face a rather large fee for non compliance. You mentioned timeshare owners rent their week out, that is the keyword "rent"...the ADA also applies to homeaway, vrbo and Airbnb..


So every timeshare "rents" that is why they fall under ADA Guidelines


----------



## escanoe (Sep 24, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> So every timeshare "rents" that is why they fall under ADA Guidelines



This has been discussed to death in this thread if anyone wants to read the finer details. Not going to relitigate this, but my bet is the timeshare will be found to be in violation of the Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988 rather than the ADA. Not that it makes much difference. We will find out in time how the complaint reaches resolution.


----------



## tschwa2 (Sep 24, 2019)

escanoe said:


> This has been discussed to death in this thread if anyone wants to read the finer details. Not going to relitigate this, but my bet is the timeshare will be found to be in violation of the Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988 rather than the ADA. Not that it makes much difference. We will find out in time how the complaint reaches resolution.


I think the OP only filed the complaint under the ADA.  So the first answer will be: Yes with a big penalty, or yes with a slap on the wrist for the resort or letting off the resort completely.  At that point the Op would have to decide whether to go forward filing a complaint outside of the ADA enforcement branch of the dept of justice.


----------



## escanoe (Sep 24, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> I think the OP only filed the complaint under the ADA.  So the first answer will be: Yes with a big penalty, or yes with a slap on the wrist for the resort or letting off the resort completely.  At that point the Op would have to decide whether to go forward filing a complaint outside of the ADA enforcement branch of the dept of justice.



Maybe you are right. But I will bet on compliance folks at DOJ being able to coordinate enforcement with HUD.

It appears to me the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department is who is most likely to bring enforcement action against an entity violating either statute.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/us-department-housing-and-urban-development


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 25, 2019)

escanoe said:


> Maybe you are right. But I will bet on compliance folks at DOJ being able to coordinate enforcement with HUD.
> 
> It appears to me the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department is who is most likely to bring enforcement action against an entity violating either statute.
> 
> https://www.justice.gov/crt/us-department-housing-and-urban-development


Yes you file with ADA, then they coordinate with appropriate agency..DOJ    FHA is correct..


----------



## joestein (Sep 25, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> I realy doubt it !!!! I have done surveillances on the building and no steam cleaning what so ever..maybe just maybe they did a unit..Time does not allow them to properly steam clean where all pets are from week to week. They do not have spare units to assign waiting for rugs to dry..they are too small...Want definitive proof ask for cleaning bill's, then contact the cleaning company to make sure the invoices aren't bogus..To date I as an owner requested that information and they have not provided the information, if they had nothing to hide they would comply...interesting isn't it!!  It is a CASH COW !!



Can we get details on the exact nature of the surveillance that you have performed?


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 28, 2019)

joestein said:


> Can we get details on the exact nature of the surveillance that you have performed?


What do you think,watching all day the units that are vacated by animals..no special cleaning done..I use to follow NYC Police during corruption investigations..this was a breeze!!


----------



## gumbow719 (Sep 28, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> What do you think,watching all day the units that are vacated by animals..no special cleaning done..I use to follow NYC Police during corruption investigations..this was a breeze!!





joestein said:


> Can we get details on the exact nature of the surveillance that you have performed?


----------



## Miss Marty (Sep 29, 2019)

Ocean Time Timeshare Photos
136th St off Coastal Highway 
Ocean City,  Maryland 21842

http://www.oceantimeoc.com/pages/529225900


----------



## pedro47 (Sep 29, 2019)

Thanks Miss Marty for the photos.


----------



## gumbow719 (Oct 16, 2019)

Do not get me wrong..Oceantime is a nice stay at the beach resort, they just have some legal issues to deal with (ADA)..Stay there if you like the ocean....great location


----------



## pedro47 (Oct 16, 2019)

Looking at this resort as a fall getaway.


----------



## gumbow719 (Oct 18, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Looking at this resort as a fall getaway.


Yes but after certain date in fall, like October..a lot of restaurants close down and the Boardwalk is a ghost town...not a late fall winter place,everything is seasonal


----------



## wackymother (Oct 18, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Looking at this resort as a fall getaway.



We like it there in April. But we've never been there after August. Gumbow is probably correct that it gets very quiet after October.


----------



## gumbow719 (Oct 24, 2019)

wackymother said:


> We like it there in April. But we've never been there after August. Gumbow is probably correct that it gets very quiet after October.


Not quiet DEAD


----------



## taterhed (Oct 24, 2019)

FWIW in the 'dead horse' category:    Have questions?  Need answers?  What could happen?  How to file?  Where to file?  Legal References....

This (via links) should truly answer any question you might have that does not require a 'legal' opinion.

Is it ADA or FHEO?
===============================================================================
*ADA*
While this is 'professional opinion' from a DOJ recognized ADA advocacy firm, only a Judge/Court could rule on the matter....

      ...not all timeshares are considered residential, and this is an important note. What seems to be a complicated definition of what denotes a residential vs. resort-type timeshare is simple to decipher. Some timeshares are leased on a model similar to that of a hotel’s. Any disability advocate should be aware of the following information signifying a hotel-type timeshare:

1. *Short-term stays* which are leased or sold by the deed owners of timeshare units for _*individuals which are *_*not deed owners*, but simply guests.
2. A timeshare possessing laws that limit the ownership rights of any timeshare unit; these laws apply to *owners of a timeshare deed which states that they are able to exchange unit stays for other stays within units in a resort.*
3. _*Timeshares which are operated for public guests*_ (renters, NOT deed owners) in between the allotted stays for timeshare deed owners by timeshare company.

With this type of lodging, it is easy to violate ADA through lack of foresight, resulting in costly fines, and injustice to vacationers with disabilities


*How to File an Americans with Disabilities Act Complaint with the U.S. Department of Justice *
(Online, mail, fax, telephone assistance from specialists...)

Don't think the ADA will pursue a hotel for 'pet fees' or refusal etc...?  *ADA vs Budget Saver Motel*
Read about them all here:   *ADA Enforcement Activities*

Guidance for hoteliers.....

*Service Animals*

People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.
If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.

_*Note:  Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does*_. Information about such laws can be obtained from the State attorney general’s office.
================================================================================================================

FHEO

*For all accommodations which are (for resolution of the complaint) deemed residential:  FHEO*

*Learn About the FHEO Complaint and Investigation Process
How to File a Complaint*

Humane Society summary.....primarily directed at long-term residence
*
The Fair Housing Act and Assistance Animals*
You and your assistance animal have rights

*The Fair Housing Act*
The Fair Housing Act (FHA) is a federal law that prevents discrimination against tenants in their homes.

Under the FHA, a disability is defined as a physical or mental impairment which significantly limits a person’s major life activities. Even if a lease says "no pets" or restricts pets, landlords are required to make what is called a “reasonable accommodation” to allow pets who serve as assistance animals, which includes animals who provide emotional support.

Assistance animals are in a different legal classification than pets who are not assistance animals, which is why pet restrictions and fees are waived for them. They are animals that work, assist and/or perform tasks and services for the benefit of a person with a disability or provide emotional support that improves the symptoms of a disability.

There is no official certification or training for assistance animals, and they can assist in a wide variety of ways. Breed and weight restrictions do not apply to assistance or service animals.

*Differences between service animals and assistance animals*
Service animals are categorized as animals trained to do a specific task for their owner. The most common example is a guide dog. Service animals are allowed in public accommodations because of the owner’s need for the animal at all times.

An assistance animal can be a cat, dog or other type of companion animal, and does not need to be trained to perform a service. The emotional and/or physical benefits from the animal living in the home are what qualify the animal as an assistance animal. A letter from a medical doctor or therapist is all that is needed to classify the animal as an assistance animal.

The fact that the term “service animal” is often used by landlords and public housing authorities to refer to both service dogs and assistance animals often creates confusion.

*Some examples of assistance animals:*

A cat who can detect and alerts their companion of oncoming seizures .
A dog who alleviates a person’s depression or anxiety.
A cat who reduces a person’s stress-induced pain.
A bird who alerts their hard-of-hearing companion when someone has come to the door.
*Demonstrating your pet is an assistance animal*
You should provide your landlord with a letter from your doctor/therapist stating you have a disability and explaining how your pet is needed to help you cope with this disability and/or improves its symptoms. Attach a brief personal statement explaining to the landlord that you are asking for “a reasonable accommodation to keep your pet who functions as an assistance support animal.”

*If your landlord refuses to accommodate*
Landlords must agree to a reasonable accommodation request if the disability claim is true and if the request does not create a hardship on the landlord or other tenants. If your request for a reasonable accommodation is denied by the landlord, you have the right to request that a government agency investigate your claim that the landlord is discriminating against you.

*You have several options for filing a complaint:*

You can file a discrimination complaint electronically with the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Information about the process is located on the HUD website.
You can print and complete a HUD Discrimination Form and mail it to the appropriate HUD office.
Many states have a government agency that investigates discrimination claims. You can also file a complaint directly with your state’s agency.
*Housing covered by the Fair Housing Act*
All types of housing, including public housing, are covered by the FHA except: 1. Rental dwellings of four or less units, where one unit is occupied by the owner; 2. Single family homes sold or rented by the owner without the use of a broker; 3. Housing owned by private clubs or religious organizations that restrict occupancy in housing units to their members.

*Pet fees*
Service and assistance animals are not technically pets and owners do not have to pay pet fees. The landlord, however, can charge a security deposit and may still seek money from the tenant if there is any damage caused by the animal to the home. Also, if there is a nuisance issue the landlord does have the right to try to remove the assistance animal through legal proceedings.


----------



## pedro47 (Oct 24, 2019)

Taterhed, that was one me very detailed and very informative post.


----------



## taterhed (Oct 25, 2019)

Thanks.  Those who have service animals should not suffer for the many faults of others or ignorance. IMO


----------



## bbodb1 (Oct 25, 2019)

Rob, 

One of the reasons my interest in this topic was peaked earlier had to do with this:



> ....*not all timeshares are considered residential, and this is an important note*. What seems to be a complicated definition of what denotes a residential vs. resort-type timeshare is simple to decipher. Some timeshares are leased on a model similar to that of a hotel’s. Any disability advocate should be aware of the following information signifying a hotel-type timeshare:



Is this excerpt suggesting that all timeshares are EITHER residential OR resort? 

From your excerpt, FHEO covers (applies to) residential timeshares.
But nothing in your excerpt clearly states ADA covers resort timeshares...are you suggesting this should be assumed (that ADA covers timeshares considered resort type)?


----------



## gumbow719 (Oct 25, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> Rob,
> 
> One of the reasons my interest in this topic was peaked earlier had to do with this:
> 
> ...


May not have anything to do with your question but it may..for argument sake what does a hotel do ? Rents rooms or units...so do timeshares thus they fall under the guise of regulations protecting Service Animals and their Disabled owners..


----------



## taterhed (Oct 26, 2019)

bbodb1 said:


> Rob,
> 
> One of the reasons my interest in this topic was peaked earlier had to do with this:
> 
> ...




My apologies:  Sometimes you really can't see the trees when you're already deep in the forest....

ADA laws protect the rights and freedoms of persons with defined and protected disabilities in most areas where the general public has rights of access or freedom of use.  

Other statutes, directives and governmental agencies are responsible for ensuring equal opportunity for all persons.  in the case we're discussing, it's  equal opportunities for those who have an identified and protected disability (or less ability/challenge etc...).  The right to equal opportunity and fair housing is protected by the FHA and administered/enforced via HUD, the FHEO and (I think) Justice.

Here's the difference:  

*Housing covered by the Fair Housing Act*
All types of housing, including *public housing*, are covered by the FHA *except*: 1. Rental dwellings of four or less units, where one unit is occupied by the owner; 2. Single family homes sold or rented by the owner without the use of a broker; 3. Housing owned by private clubs or religious organizations that restrict occupancy in housing units to their members.
The *Americans with Disabilities Act* (*ADA*) prohibits discrimination against people with *disabilities* in several areas, including employment, transportation, *public accommodations*, communications and access to state and local government' programs and services.
FHA  is public housing (think primary, private residence with a lease)
ADA  is public accommodations (think hotel, resort, short term lodging)

Note that small owner-occupied duplex/apartments, single family home rentals (direct--no broker), private and religious clubs/organizations that restrict occupancy to their members (only) are not covered.

So, a timeshare that offers rentals to the general public is not private/restricted.  A timeshare that offers 'exchanges, points, extra rentals' to persons that are not deeded, not members or belong to another 'chain' resort or exchange.....are also not private/restricted.  This is a gross generalization, but you get the picture.  If the management group/staff rents to the public--they are ADA.  If the management/staff facilitates owner rentals/exchanges/point swaps etc.... to the general public or owners of another (separate) resort/system, then they are ADA.  Only when a timeshare is truly restricted to 'members only' (and their guests), could it reasonably be considered a 'restricted occupancy housing' and therefore partially or totally exempt from ADA/FHA.  Even then, certain elements  would still apply in regard to equal opportunity and fair treatment.

So, yes:  if Oceantime rents to the public, exchanges with outside 'public' non-deeded owners and generally carries on with public accommodations (or hotel trade),  then they are most certainly governed by the ADA to the extent that it applies to their operation.

In truth, based on state law, agreements between agencies and case management etc....  I suspect that many infractions might be investigated by both agencies and their enforcement arm (justice?). 

In this case, they are in violation of ADA, clearly, by enforcing a _routine_ cleaning fee for a service dog providing assistance to a person with an identified and protected disability.  That is, of course, assuming that the person we are discussing does have an identified and protected disability (management has limited ability to question this) and that the dog in question is a 'service animal' that provides a service to the disabled person with a protected disability.  Emotional support animals are NOT protected by ADA.  Persons with conditions or afflictions that are not protected by the ADA are not afforded the protections defined by the ADA.  

The FHA has much broader protections/accommodations than the ADA.  Transportation rights are covered under a different set of rules known as the Air Carrier Access Act.  Emotional support/psychiatric service animals and their handlers/owners have rights under this act.

I hope this answers your questions.....it's much too deep for the average conversation I think.


----------



## bbodb1 (Oct 27, 2019)

Thanks for that info and your time, Rob.  And it does indeed answer the questions I had on this.


----------



## Makai Guy (Oct 30, 2019)

The thread originator (gumbow719) informs us the ADA case has been dropped.  Closing this thread.


----------

