# Looking at buying a Starwood TS, would love advice!



## Deesquared (Mar 24, 2015)

Hi Tuggers!
I have been visiting the board since 2013 when we got a great deal at WKORV, and took their timeshare tour.  We got another deal this year, and are now looking more seriously at purchasing something.

Just for background info, we have been to WKORV twice, and we love it.  Our kids love the pool, and we like relaxing poolside and snorkeling at the beach. I love how close it is to Lahaina, with lots of restaurants and shopping nearby.  
The only other TS we have experience with is WorldMark, which my parents and my in-laws both own.  I'm not a big fan, as I much prefer the 'resort' feel of the Westin property.
I am super cheap, and would be happy to get a freebie from the Bargain Basement as a trader, but my husband is more willing to invest the cash to get a mandatory resort with the StarOptions and ability to book at 12 months.

I am curious what you would recommend?  I have seen many 2 BR Westin Desert Oasis resales that I was interested in.
I also saw a 1BR Island view at WKORV for $8000 that seemed like a great deal if we wanted the StarOptions.

Here's my answers to the survey, to give you more info:

1) Where do you want your home resort to be? Not sure...either Maui if we spend the $$$ on a mandatory, or Desert Oasis for a trader

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?If Maui, we'd visit our home resort 90%. If Arizona, it would be a trader 80% of the time.

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?Maui, Atlantis Harbourside, and Orlando (Walt Disney World). Maybe Princeville

4) How many people do you usually travel with?2 Adults 2 teens

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule? School schedule, so travel during March Break and Summer Holidays most likely

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?Yes
7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?Yes

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars? What is the Westin? 4 or 5?  I love Westin and Fairmont properties for the luxury feel, but I'm more concerned about how much space we have for everyone, and the pool amenities.

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?I'm not sure, but hubby didn't really balk too much when I showed him the $8000 WKORV resale.  We are not looking to spend $25,000 though...

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?For Maui - maybe $2000?  Maybe an EOY would be better for us.  For Arizona I would spend around $1200 a year.

11) Are you a detail oriented planner?Very Much!

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do? Yep, that is why I'm interested in a cheap or free trader that I can give away when we don't want it anymore. However, I would hope that if we bought a Maui resale it would retain most of it's value.

Thank you all for any advice!
Dianna
________________


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## Deesquared (Mar 24, 2015)

Oops...the WKORV resale that is $8000 is a 2BR EOY, not a 1BR.  Still Island view though!


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## DeniseM (Mar 24, 2015)

The limiting factors are:

*School holidays*:  

• Christmas and New Years are not available at the resorts you named as Staroption exchanges - they were either sold as event weeks, or the number of weeks available is extremely limited, and impossible to get with Staroptions.  

• Other school holidays such as President's week, and Easter week are also difficult to get with Staroption reservations.  Owners making home resort reservations often book them solid at the 12 mo. mark - leaving nothing for Staroption reservations.

• Summer is not as difficult, as long as you are flexible about when you go, but if you can only go 4th of July week, you may not find any availability for a Staroption reservation.

*View*:

• When you make a Staroption reservation, you get a "floating view," which means that your unit will be assigned by the front desk.  Most people want a good view in Hawaii, so if you would use a Hawaii Home resort 90% of the time, then you should definitely buy Ocean View or Ocean Front at the resort, to guarantee your view AND the ability to make your reservations at 12 mos. before check-in.

*Price*:

For $8,000 you are not going to get Ocean View or Oceanfront at WKORV-N/S.  You and your spouse need to sit down and figure out how important it is to you to lock in the view, and to be able to make a reservation at 12 mos.  If it's important, you will have to pay more than $8,000.

One option is to buy an every-other-year Ocean View deed.  That will lock in your view and 12 mo. reservation priority, and reduce your cost.


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## DeniseM (Mar 24, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> Oops...the WKORV resale that is $8000 is a 2BR EOY, not a 1BR.  Still Island view though!



I would not even consider buying an Island View.  An Island View at WKORV is most likely a parking lot view.   Yes - it gives you the priority to make your reservation at 12 mos. out, but do you really want to look at a parking lot year after year?


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## Deesquared (Mar 24, 2015)

Ahh...parking lot view!
Yes, on our past two visits we were in dreaded building 4 with a lanai over the parking lot.
We didn't care too much, as we were getting such a good deal, but yes...if I bought something I don't think I'd want the Island View.

Are the Maintenance Fees for for Ocean View units than Island View, or is it just based on unit size?

Also, because we're in Canada our holidays are a bit different.  We wouldn't be travelling on President's Day or 4th of July Holidays, so that might impact our decision too.  We rarely travel at Christmas, so I'm not planning to use a Timeshare for Christmas vacations.

Thanks Denise!


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## Henry M. (Mar 24, 2015)

Island views at WKORV-N are not bad, though. I would stay in most rooms at that resort. Of course I prefer a high floor in building 8, but the IV rooms are acceptable.

Maintenance fees are determined by unit size, not view.


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## DeniseM (Mar 24, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> Also, because we're in Canada our holidays are a bit different.  We wouldn't be travelling on President's Day or 4th of July Holidays, so that might impact our decision too.  We rarely travel at Christmas, so I'm not planning to use a Timeshare for Christmas vacations.



So it sounds like you would be traveling during summer vacation.  If you are flexible, and can go any week of the summer, and you don't care about the view, then making a Staroption reservation is very doable.

If you are locked into one week of the summer, and can't be flexible, then it would be better for you to own at the resort, so you can reserve at 12 mos. out.

You need to decide how important the view is to you - the maintenance fee is the same for a bad view or a good view.


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## mjm1 (Mar 24, 2015)

Deesquared, I would first like to congratulate you on probably the most organized initial post/request for insight. Well done!

We bought a mandatory resort at Westin Kierland Villas, so we would have the ability to use StarOptions. The cost and MFs are less than Hawaii and you can make reservations in Hawaii/other non-home resorts at 8 months. As noted by others, it would be floating as far as room assignments, but it can work well.

You might want to consider that resort.

Mike


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## Deesquared (Mar 24, 2015)

mjm1 said:


> Deesquared, I would first like to congratulate you on probably the most organized initial post/request for insight. Well done!



Awww..thanks!  I've been doing the research for 2 years now, but I still have so many questions!

I will definitely look into Kierland, and I had someone else recommend looking into a mandatory at Vistana, but I'm worried about the overloaded Florida market.
Arizona is closer to us, here in BC, so we would be more likely to use it occasionally.

I assume that by buying a resale week at a voluntary resort, there is no way to split the studio and 1-bedroom to trade for two weeks at another resort?  You would just deposit the entire thing into II, and get one week back?

Thanks again everyone!
Dianna


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## DeniseM (Mar 24, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> I assume that by buying a resale week at a voluntary resort, there is no way to split the studio and 1-bedroom to trade for two weeks at another resort?  You would just deposit the entire thing into II, and get one week back?



You can split a 2-Bdm. lock-off in II.  

But getting a II trade at a prime resort during school holidays is much more difficult.  In general, Starwood avoids depositing school holidays in II.


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## LisaRex (Mar 24, 2015)

I think you should also consider other options.  No way would I buy an IV at WKORV as its resale value is poor.  If you can't afford an upgraded view, then I'd personally either exchange or rent. 

Right now, there are over 500 rentals listed on Redweek.com for WKORV and WKORV-N.  Membership costs $15/year.  With that many rentals, it's a buyer's market.  If you are willing to be patient and contact a lot of people, you should be able to rent for the cost of MFs + a few hundred bucks. No contract required. 

If that doesn't appeal to you, if view isn't essential, and if you can be somewhat flexible with your dates, then do what others have suggested and consider buying a mandatory resort such as WKV, and use SOs to exchange in.  Exchangers often get better views than deeded IV owners. 

Also, be aware that Maui is going ahead with its plans to build a third phase. This will most assuredly mean that exchanging will be easier, especially in the years that the resort is in active sales, as the new phase will significantly increase inventory. 

Theoretically, this will also decrease the resale/rental value of WKORV and WKORV-N because more sellers are competing for the same number of buyers/renters.  And Starwood usually subsidizes the MFs when it's in active sales to lure new buyers in, so the difference in MFs may mean more people will buy from Starwood because they are fooled by the lower MFs. 

So it may behoove you to rent now, and then wait to see what happens in a few years after the NN phase is built.  You'd kick yourself if in 3 years, you can pick up a 2 bdrm for 25 or 50% less than what you paid today.


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## capjak (Mar 24, 2015)

Based on the information it appears like the best options would be:

1.  Westin Kirland (expect to pay $16000+ upfront but it will have resale value),

2.  WKORV-N (Island view $14000 upfront or Oceanfront $20,000 upfront for an annual) or South Oceanview ($18,000 up front for an annual) both of these currently have resale value

Personally I prefer to control my reservations and therefore renting & II exchanges is not my preferred method as I sometimes change dates based on airfare availability.

If I knew I was going to Maui every year or even every other year, I would buy there (actually I did buy there twice) to guarantee my room.   Making star option reservations for Feb/March timeframe can be difficult at the 8 month mark especially for a 2 bedroom if that is what you need.


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## LisaRex (Mar 24, 2015)

capjak said:


> Personally I prefer to control my reservations and therefore renting & II exchanges is not my preferred method as I sometimes change dates based on airfare availability.



I used to own at WKORV-N and one of the reasons I sold was because I didn't like the pressure to book at 12 months out to guarantee the best view.  12 months is before award flights are released, which means I couldn't look for airfare bargains.  I cannot tell you how stressful it was to give up a reservation made at 9am at 12 months out because I couldn't find cheap/award airfare to match. 

If you're traveling with a family of 4, airfare can be the most expensive component of a Hawaii vacation, especially if you don't live on the West Coast.  From Ohio, airfares to Maui hover around $1100 (though lately I've finally seen fares in the $800s).   So for a family of 4, we're talking $3200-4400 just in travel costs, which makes airfare as expensive, or more so, than lodging.  

So, for me, renting is actually less stressful than owning there.


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## sjsharkie (Mar 24, 2015)

I am going to exclude the rental options, since the OP stated they wish to purchase.

If view is important to you, then you should buy at WKORV / WKORVN.  Expensive in both up front and MF cost, but you know what you are getting yourself into.  Keep in mind that MFs at this property have increased disproportionately (IMO) to other locations and that Maui county seems increasingly intent on taxing those who do not have voting power to stop them (namely, timeshare owners).

If upfront cost and maintenance fees are more of a concern, I would look to SVN mandatory properties.  You can generally get a summer week if you are flexible and sit on your computer ready to pounce 8 months out.  WKV has a higher up front cost, with lower maintenance fees; SVV has a much lower up front cost with higher maintenance fees.

Also note that maintenance fee increases and residual values of TS fluctuate every year -- if they changed rules of the program, this could dramatically impact the investment you have.

Good luck!

-ryan


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## SMHarman (Mar 24, 2015)

LisaRex said:


> I think you should also consider other options.  No way would I buy an IV at WKORV as its resale value is poor.  If you can't afford an upgraded view, then I'd personally either exchange or rent.
> 
> Right now, there are over 500 rentals listed on Redweek.com for WKORV and WKORV-N.  Membership costs $15/year.  With that many rentals, it's a buyer's market.  If you are willing to be patient and contact a lot of people, you should be able to rent for the cost of MFs + a few hundred bucks. No contract required.
> 
> ...


This is very important. 

Starwood may effectively reduce the floor price on the old inventory by reducing ROFR pricing when they have shiney New NN inventory to sell. 

Buying in WKORV right now should probably add more patience.


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## VacationForever (Mar 24, 2015)

sjsharkie said:


> I am going to exclude the rental options, since the OP stated they wish to purchase.
> 
> If view is important to you, then you should buy at WKORV / WKORVN.  Expensive in both up front and MF cost, but you know what you are getting yourself into.  Keep in mind that MFs at this property have increased disproportionately (IMO) to other locations and that Maui county seems increasingly intent on taxing those who do not have voting power to stop them (namely, timeshare owners).
> 
> ...



I believe you meant 8 months, not 12 months out.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 24, 2015)

*Canadian twists*

Things to remember:

- flying can cost a lot more from Canada, unless (I'm going to assume you're in the lower mainland) you're able to cross the border to Bellingham, or make your way to Seattle.  And factor in AC Rouge is taking over most of the leisure destinations, and our personal experience with them has been horrible compared to AC mainline.  I'm sure WJ is going to do the same over time...

- your MFs are in USD, so on top of the constant ~5% annual rise in costs, factor in currency fluctuations.  Our MFs went up 3.7% last year, but actually cost us 10.1% more after the drop in CAD vs USD was added.

I'm sure there's other stuff, but those are the two biggies.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 24, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> Also, because we're in Canada our holidays are a bit different.  We wouldn't be travelling on President's Day or 4th of July Holidays, so that might impact our decision too.



We've never had too much issue in booking with SO's at exactly 8mos out.

We just got back from Maui, and the place was packed with lots of Canadians on Spring Break, so just because our holidays don't align with the American's doesn't mean that everyone else from Canada didn't decide to come during those same few weeks

From the west coast, there are only a handful of places that are relatively easy to get to.


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## Deesquared (Mar 24, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> We just got back from Maui, and the place was packed with lots of Canadians on Spring Break,



We were some of those Canadians! We were the ones swimming in the pool when it was raining. 
Maybe we crossed paths!  I wish I could have met up with you and picked your brain.  You have so many timeshares!

As for the new Westin Nanea being built, is the general feeling that it would be wise to wait until it opens before buying anything at WKORV?  Is the thought that prices might go down with the increased availability of units?

Thanks for everyone for their input.  I didn't know much about Kierland, but it does look appealing. 
I've also looked on Redweek, and, goodness gracious...there are so many rentals out there!  I'm happy to rent, but hubby seems to want to purchase something at some point.

Thanks so much!!


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## YYJMSP (Mar 24, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> We were some of those Canadians! We were the ones swimming in the pool when it was raining.



I'm sure someone will shoot me for being a fool, but I just spent 12 days in Hawaii and never set foot in the water 

Unfortunately, I had to work through pretty much my entire holiday, so for me, it was just a change of office location.  Between work and holidays, I think I spend more than a third of my time in hotels...


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## sjsharkie (Mar 25, 2015)

sptung said:


> I believe you meant 8 months, not 12 months out.



Yes -- I edited my post.


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## Ken555 (Mar 25, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> I'm sure someone will shoot me for being a fool, but I just spent 12 days in Hawaii and never set foot in the water
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I had to work through pretty much my entire holiday, so for me, it was just a change of office location.  Between work and holidays, I think I spend more than a third of my time in hotels...




You're not alone. When I was there earlier this month I only got in the water a few times over nine days...and had go work long weeks while there.

But, I did meet lots of Canadians!


Sent from my iPad


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## jordathyspg (Mar 25, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> We've never had too much issue in booking with SO's at exactly 8mos out.



Fellow lowermainlander here.  I've been lurking on the site for a while, and my wife and I have settled on the idea of a 2 Bedroom Platinum WKV resale.  We want the 148k options and Scottsdale is a place we would be happy to visit at least every other year. We will probably be looking to purchase next year, after baby number two comes.

I see you own in Maui, but do you (or any other locals) have any experience in booking via staroptions at 8 months out during our March spring break in either Maui, Kauai, or Lagunamar? Or should we expect to be looking at shoulder season for these resorts?


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## DeniseM (Mar 25, 2015)

jordathyspg said:


> I see you own in Maui, but do you (or any other locals) have any experience in booking via staroptions at 8 months out during our March spring break in either Maui, Kauai, or Lagunamar? Or should we expect to be looking at shoulder season for these resorts?



When is your spring break?   Feb. through Easter is high season in Hawaii.  

At the Maui resorts, the majority of the weeks book solid at 12 mos., and the rest book solid at 8 mos.  - Although there may be a few studios that are still available.

To get a reservation during this time frame, you need to be ready to make your reservation online, right at the 8 mos. + 1 day mark (at midnight Eastern) the night before the phone lines open, and you need to be flexible, because most weeks are booked by owners at 12 mos.

Maui is a much harder reservation to get than Kauai or Lagunamar.


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## jordathyspg (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks Denise.  Spring break here varies based on the city and private vs. public school, but seems to largely be sometime between the first and third week of March.  Sounds like that is a no go for Maui, but a possibility for Kauai or Lagunamar at 8 months out?

For Maui, it sounds like if we were to book right at 8 months out and were flexible on the dates, we would have a decent shot of getting into Maui during shoulder season


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## DeniseM (Mar 25, 2015)

jordathyspg said:


> Thanks Denise.  Spring break here varies based on the city and private vs. public school, but seems to largely be sometime between the first and third week of March.  Sounds like that is a no go for Maui, but a possibility for Kauai or Lagunamar at 8 months out?
> 
> For Maui, it sounds like if we were to book right at 8 months out and were flexible on the dates, we would have a decent shot of getting into Maui during shoulder season



March is going to be tough -it's usually booked solid by owners at 12 mos., but other seasons have availability - even summer, if you make the reservation the very second the window opens at the 8 mo. mark, and you are flexible.


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## Ken555 (Mar 25, 2015)

jordathyspg said:


> Thanks Denise.  Spring break here varies based on the city and private vs. public school, but seems to largely be sometime between the first and third week of March.  Sounds like that is a no go for Maui, but a possibility for Kauai or Lagunamar at 8 months out?
> 
> 
> 
> For Maui, it sounds like if we were to book right at 8 months out and were flexible on the dates, we would have a decent shot of getting into Maui during shoulder season




I used my WKV plat week for Maui this year in March without any difficulty. But, I reserved the moment the check-in day became available.


Sent from my iPad


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## Deesquared (Mar 25, 2015)

Well, I told my husband all the good info I got from the Tuggers, and he is interested in purchasing something at Westin Kierland  in the next couple years!  We might even see how things go with the opening of Nanea, and see if resales at WKORV drop in price at all.

The one thing I'm still unsure about it how the points are used for trading.  There are some WKV that come with 37,000 - 81,000 Star Options, and some that come with 148,000 Star Points. ???

I thought StarOptions were the 'hotel' type points, and that they were only available on purchases from the developer?

How many StarPoints are necessary to trade into Maui?  Is it a straight one week from WKV trades to one week in WKORV, or ???

Thanks!
Dianna


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## DeniseM (Mar 25, 2015)

Starpoints are Hotel points and you do NOT get them with a resale.  However, many people don't know that, so you often see it in Ads.  

It's no great loss - the conversion rate to Starpoints is horrible - you wouldn't want to do it.  Plus - they never raise it, so even though the MF has doubled at many resorts, we still get the original number of Starpoints.

The timeshare points are Star*options*, and you will get them with a mandatory resale.


> How many Star[Options] are necessary to trade into Maui? Is it a straight one week from WKV trades to one week in WKORV, or ???



It depends on the *season* and *unit size* you buy at WKV - to trade for a 2 bdm. at the Maui resorts, you need a 2 bdm. Platinum week at WKV, which is 148,100 Staroptions.  

The Gold and Silver weeks at WKV have far fewer Staroptions, BUT you pay the same maintenance fee, as you would for a Plat week.


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## YYJMSP (Mar 25, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> But, I did meet lots of Canadians!



It's our secret evil plan to take over Maui by sending all those people there, infiltrate key organizations like Starbucks and then convert them all to Timmies and only serve double-doubles in extra large metric sized mugs for a toonie...


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## alexadeparis (Mar 25, 2015)

YYJMSP said:


> It's our secret evil plan to take over Maui by sending all those people there, infiltrate key organizations like Starbucks and then convert them all to Timmies and only serve double-doubles in extra large metric sized mugs for a toonie...



You Can convert starbucks to Timmies anytime in my book.


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## Henry M. (Mar 26, 2015)

+1

Starbucks is terrible if all you want is a decent cup of coffee.


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## taterhed (Mar 26, 2015)

Mmmmmmmh...  donuts. 

Sent from my Kindle...pls forgive errors and brevity


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## jordathyspg (Mar 30, 2015)

We were also curious how difficult it has been of late to trade into Westin Mission Hills, during March spring break or otherwise, via staroptions. 

PS At the risk of being asked to leave the country, I really don't get the appeal of Tim Horton's coffee. Tastes like brown water.


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## Rsauer3473 (Mar 30, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> Well, I told my husband all the good info I got from the Tuggers, and he is interested in purchasing something at Westin Kierland  in the next couple years!  We might even see how things go with the opening of Nanea, and see if resales at WKORV drop in price at all.
> 
> The one thing I'm still unsure about it how the points are used for trading.  There are some WKV that come with 37,000 - 81,000 Star Options, and some that come with 148,000 Star Points. ???
> 
> ...


We purchased two ANNUAL 2 bdrm units at Vistana Villages last Spring in Bella and Key West phases through TUG marketplace for $1000 total plus 2014 MFs. Each had 67,100 Staroptions. We did not use them in 2014 so we banked them both and made a reservation in August for Jan 2015 at WKORVN in a studio for two weeks. We got an ocean view unit. As we are retired the studio works fine and going in less busy seasons works for us. We value these resales more than the Lagunamar EOY that we wish we hadn't purchased.


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## VacationForever (Mar 30, 2015)

Rsauer3473 said:


> We purchased two ANNUAL 2 bdrm units at Vistana Villages last Spring in Bella and Key West phases through TUG marketplace for $1000 total plus 2014 MFs. Each had 67,100 Staroptions. We did not use them in 2014 so we banked them both and made a reservation in August for Jan 2015 at WKORVN in a studio for two weeks. We got an ocean view unit. As we are retired the studio works fine and going in less busy seasons works for us. We value these resales more than the Lagunamar EOY that we wish we hadn't purchased.



That is alot of MF (around 2.8k to 3k including SVN fees) to pay for 134,200 SO.


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## Rsauer3473 (Mar 30, 2015)

sptung said:


> That is alot of MF (around 2.8k to 3k including SVN fees) to pay for 134,200 SO.



About $2200 actually. Considering initial cost (Bella was $1000, Key West was $0), a bargain. My WKORV initial cost was $47.5 K for 148,100 SOs. And MFs are about $2.3K.


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## Deesquared (Apr 19, 2015)

Hello again!  I'm back!

Just checking in, having a look at the Marketplace every now and then.  Another question for you...

If I was able to get a Westin Kierland resale that came with 81,000 Staroptions, can I bank them, and use them to trade to WKORV every other year? 

Thanks!


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## LisaRex (Apr 19, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> If I was able to get a Westin Kierland resale that came with 81,000 Staroptions, can I bank them, and use them to trade to WKORV every other year? [/SIZE]
> 
> Thanks!



Yes, for $99 you can bank unused SOs for 2 yrs.  You have to bank no later than June 30.  So for 2015, you have a few months left to bank, and the SOs will be good til 12/31/2017. 

Only target platinum weeks for the best dollar to SO ratio.


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## Deesquared (Apr 20, 2015)

Thanks LisaRex.

The TS I was looking at has disappeared from the Marketplace now, so it must have already been snapped up.
It was a free Kierland week, just the cost of transferring.  Wasn't Platinum, but for free, I thought it would have been a good way to try out ownership!
Oh well...I'll keep looking!


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## DeniseM (Apr 20, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> Thanks LisaRex.
> 
> The TS I was looking at has disappeared from the Marketplace now, so it must have already been snapped up.
> It was a free Kierland week, just the cost of transferring.  Wasn't Platinum, but for free, I thought it would have been a good way to try out ownership!
> Oh well...I'll keep looking!



I would not adopt a week that isn't Platinum:

-I will have fewer Staroptions
-You will pay the same MF as for a Plat week

Not a good value


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## Deesquared (Apr 20, 2015)

Even if it was free?  A platinum week would be expensive to buy.  There's one in the Marketplace selling for $19,500 right now.
Wouldn't I be saving $19,500 by getting a free week, even though I wouldn't get as many Staroptions?  I know the value isn't as good, but it wouldn't be a terrible thing to get 81,000 SO a year for $1500 with no huge initial investment!

(I hope I don't sound argumentative...I'm just wondering if it would really be so bad.  The nice thing is I could always give it away for free if something better comes up)


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## DeniseM (Apr 20, 2015)

You should be able to find a Plat 1 bdm. at WKV for much less than 19,500, and it will have 81,000 Staroptions, and a lower MF than a 2 bdm./off-season.

Have you tried ebay?  http://www.ebay.com/sch/items/Timeshares-for-Sale_?_catref=1&_sacat=15897

*I would not count on being able to give away an off-season week - the high MF to Staroption ratio is a negative.


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## Deesquared (Apr 20, 2015)

I didn't even think about 1 bedroom units!  I was always looking at 2 bedrooms, so that it could be potentially split into two weeks.
Thanks for all the ongoing advice!


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## DeniseM (Apr 20, 2015)

Deesquared said:


> I didn't even think about 1 bedroom units!  I was always looking at 2 bedrooms, so that it could be potentially split into two weeks.
> Thanks for all the ongoing advice!



If you are buying for the Staroptions - the 1 bdm. Plat is a much better deal.

If you are buying to trade in II, then adopt a free 2 bdm. lock-off at a voluntary resort.

They are different strategies.


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## 303timesharenewb (Apr 21, 2015)

*Voluntary for trade strategy*

I've read through many old postings on the trade value of voluntary resorts and came up with the following options on the best combo between upfront cost, MFs, trade value and availability:
1. SDO true plat - rare
2. SBP palmetto plat - rare
3. SDO 1-52 "gold plus"
3. SBP plantation gold plus long summer
4. SBP Palmetto gold plus spring/fall 

Based on a 2bdrm LO:
I've read that they seem to all have a similar trade value on II and the only difference observed would be any ongoing requests would fill that plats first. 

Would you say that more readily available #3-5's the gold pluses above "see" the same properties? Theoretically they're all gold pluses but the "average" of their season does probably produce a difference "appeal" factor?

Does anyone own different combinations of the above? How much would you be willing to pay for each?


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## LisaRex (Apr 21, 2015)

The problem with reading old posts is that the data may be unreliable now.  For instance, a few years ago Starwood was bulk banking WKORV into II and a savvy owner could end up exchanging one 2 bdrm lockoff into 2 2-bdrms at WKORV.  You can't do that anymore as bulk banking has dried up entirely, and if you are able to exchange into a place like WKORV, it's during shoulder or low season and booked via an Ongoing Search...meaning no more trade ups in size. 

I'd love to offer up something useful for you, but I can't reliably predict anything about Starwood and II anymore.


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## DeniseM (Apr 21, 2015)

Actually, we don't know if there are deposits being made or not - but it's pretty clear that it's not what it used to be.  

The online inventory that is visable is the leftovers, after all Ongoing Searches are matched, and I suspect that most of the deposits are being taken with OGS, and so we see nothing online.


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 21, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Actually, we don't know if there are deposits being made or not - but it's pretty clear that it's not what it used to be.
> 
> The online inventory that is visable is the leftovers, after all Ongoing Searches are matched, and I suspect that most of the deposits are being taken with OGS, and so we see nothing online.



LisaRex's point was that bulk banking of WKORV/N into II has ended.

303TSnewb - I would not own SBP, however would consider SDO (2Bd) for II exchanging.  YMMV 
Waiting until retirement however to consider SDO for II, as we already have enough TSs.


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## DeniseM (Apr 21, 2015)

DavidnRobin said:


> LisaRex's point was that bulk banking of WKORV/N into II has ended.



I believe it's still happening (probably reduced), but since Ongoing Searches are filled BEFORE anything goes online, and they are matched behind the scenes, there is no way to know what Ongoing Searches are snagging - the deposits that are matched to OGS's are never visible.

Let's say that Starwood bulk space banks 50 weeks, and there are 75 ongoing searches in place.  The ongoing searches would match all the inventory behind the scenes, and we would never "see" it.

Before, when supply exceeded OGS demand, after the OGS's were filled, the leftover deposits would go online, and we could "see" them.

Now that deposits have been reduced, I think ALL deposits are getting snagged with OGS's.


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## PassionForTravel (Apr 21, 2015)

I think Denise it correct. There were reports last September of people getting matched. I didn't at that time so I changed the week that I was requesting (a combination of circumstance and I thought my new week had a better chance of hitting). It got fulfilled in January, November 2015 week at WKORV 1 bd using SDO 1 bd. It's possible it was a cancellation of a week that originally filled in September but historically Starwood has done a mini bulk bank in January.

Ian


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## DavidnRobin (Apr 21, 2015)

OK - how about this…? none has shown up in TUG Sightings - that is how I took it from LR (as a non-II user, that is how I track bulk deposits. So we will now have large bulk, bulk, and mini-bulk definitions (and Dodgers' pitcher just balked…).  There used to be bulk deposits large enough to cover OGS and show in TUG sightings - haven't seen one of those in a while.

I am still a few years away from II usage - but who knows what the exchange situation will be then?


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## DeniseM (Apr 21, 2015)

It has definitely changed - and I'm interested to see if we will see more deposits when the new phase starts active sales, because you know that Starwood will be looking for fresh meat to feed the sales machine.


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## LisaRex (Apr 22, 2015)

We knew it had to change once Starwood started allowing banking of SOs.  There was no way that they could do bulk bankings like they used to do, where they deposited what appeared to be hundreds of units into II, because they had to come up with extra inventory to fulfill increased internal demand. 

However, even I've been surprised at the lack of inventory seen in II compared to just a few years ago.  If it's true that II exchanges are coming only in low season and only to those who input an OGS, then that's a significant shift which should be brought to the attention of new buyers.


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## PassionForTravel (Apr 22, 2015)

I don't think it's just SO banking. Yes that's having an effect but it's also that the economy is doing significantly better than it was during those years that the huge bulk banks were occurring. In 2009 we flew from San Diego to Honolulu for $249 it's averaging almost twice as much now. We got a hotel room for $100 a night at the Marriott. Now a friend who booked for this summer is paying $180 at a non descript hotel 3 blocks from the beach and their current price is $230. I just read an article and their bargain hotel pick was mid $200 a night on Maui. Which all points to higher demand.

Which means that rental prices are up. So owners are probably able to rent for much more than they could so they don't need to exchange. Starwood is probably able to rent their units at WKORV/N for a lot more so doesn't need to deposit except what their contract with II requires and what's been exchanged. Then there's SO banking. Which all point to less supply.

Heck my WM property on Maui is getting harder to book. 

Add it up and there is more demand and less supply. They are doing the banks they just are a lot smaller. Which means an OGS is mandatory, which also means that up-trades aren't happening.

Since they control the inventory it makes sense that it's mostly low season weeks that are getting deposited. But it definitely changes the equation for II traders unless you can go on low demand weeks. If you need a higher demand week then you need SO's. If you need the highest demand weeks then you need to own there.

Ian


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## hypnotiq (Apr 22, 2015)

As someone that monitors WKORV/WKORVN closely, I can definitely say *bulk banking that has made it past OGS has gone down. *

Typically (the past 5 years) we have seen one in Sept/Oct and another one in Feb/Mar time frame. Like I said, these are deposits that we saw show up beyond what OGS picked up.

The latter one (Feb/Mar) definitely didn't happen this year. I had OGS pick up a couple of units in December (about a week apart) but another OGS I setup in Jan has yet to pick anything up.

It could be a fluke (it'll take another year to determine that) but I will say at this point, if you want into WKORV/WKORVN you're going to need to do it via OGS.

The biggest downside to this is no instant exchanging up to a bigger unit with a 1bd.  Oh well, it still a good deal using the 2bd.


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## gtm2011 (Apr 22, 2015)

Is anyone getting 2 BD matches at WKORV/WKORVN with 2 BD OGS?  I hear about 1 BD OGS matches.  I am just curious.


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## DeniseM (Apr 22, 2015)

gtm2011 said:


> Is anyone getting 2 BD matches at WKORV/WKORVN with 2 BD OGS?  I hear about 1 BD OGS matches.  I am just curious.



The best place to ask that questions in the TUG Sightings and Distressed Forum.


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## hypnotiq (Apr 22, 2015)

gtm2011 said:


> Is anyone getting 2 BD matches at WKORV/WKORVN with 2 BD OGS?  I hear about 1 BD OGS matches.  I am just curious.



Yes, I have (last one back in Dec).

*edit* delete post if this isnt ok to say in here Denise


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## DeniseM (Apr 22, 2015)

hypnotiq said:


> Yes, I have (last one back in Dec).
> 
> *edit* delete post if this isnt ok to say in here Denise



It's fine - no worries.


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## BradC (Apr 23, 2015)

I also wonder if the new SVN reservation rules haven't changed the game somewhat, too.

Now that we can make StarOptions reservations at 8 months out for any length stay and with any check-in day, it seems like the reservation system might not be as friendly towards the typical weeklong, weekend-check-in-date reservation that gets passed through to II.


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