# Buying VS Renting Points: Why do you love DVC?



## SunsetMaven (Nov 14, 2019)

Hi All, 

We have been considering a DVC resale for about a year now. We have owned SBP (Vistana) owners for about 6 years and use it as a trader on Interval. It has worked out great for us but we want to think about adding since we don't have access to RCI to pick up SSR via a trade.

I am considering renting points in perpetuity VERSUS owning. We go to WDW about once every 12-18 months. This year we went twice but that was just a special treat!

Let's say I purchase Polynesian for $150/pt and pay their MFs (rounding it to $7/point for this post). My kids hopefully have at least a good 10 years left of traveling to WDW with us so let's say worst case, I sell it back out for $75/pt in 10 years (hopefully it retains more value than that and DVC ROFR's way higher but just for calculation purposes, please bear with me). Assuming time value of money is 0 (again, not realistic but just for quick and dirty calculations) - I'm paying $7.50/pt plus $7/pt so $14.50/pt per year versus $18/pt when I rent (through David's). 

So if we own, it's still about $2,146 (148pts) for a week in a studio with fireworks view out of Poly or GF. This is versus buying an II getaway or something for say Sheraton Vistana for $700 for the week in a 1 or 2 bedroom unit.

The reason why I think DVC is superior and why we want to stay there (and pay more) versus paying less at other resorts are:
- monorail access
- the very convenient shuttle system for all the parks
- fireworks views out of our balcony
- the animals out of the balcony at AKL
- magical express and the handling of our luggage

Can you all tell me what I'm missing? What else? Why do you own at DVC even though it's significantly more expensive than other resorts? I love that DVC owners are so passionate.

Please help me decide before we spend $$ trying to rent. I don't want to waste the money renting once if I'm just going to turn around after our first stay and buy! THANKS!


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## chalee94 (Nov 14, 2019)

other perks (which can come and go) currently involve things like:

-AP discounts
-onsite WDW fast pass booking at 60 days
-access to the Bay Lake Tower - Top of the World Lounge for MK fireworks
-Epcot lounge for free soft drinks and respite from the midday sun in central FL
-10% dining and shopping discounts
-pool hopping is an option (not a big deal for me)
-other membership "perks" like moonlight magic and similar events (a Frozen 2 preview this weekend) are theoretically nice (but I have been unable to book any so far, due to timing and extremely limited booking windows, so don't count on this


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## JohnB3 (Nov 14, 2019)

60 day fast passes
extra magic hours 
free parking at the resorts and parks and airport transportation

at the biggest reasons we stay on property when we go to disney.  

Some of the other items Charles lists are not available to resale buyers (which is really the best financial choice if buying IMHO) like epcot lounge, and dining discounts as well as the member perks like moonlight magic


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## elaine (Nov 14, 2019)

we had very good trips at 2BR TS near WDW for 5 years before we bought a resale DVC contract. What we love about DVC:
fabulous community halls with engaging activities for my kids. they're' just different form any other kids club (think daycare vs/ montessori-not exact but you get the idea).
buses everywhere--we didn't even have a car
fp at 60 days (didn't exist when we bought)
great pools--heated to decent temp in winter
good food courts
now that kids are older teens, we esp. love that they can stay out late and take a WDW bus back--no shuttle driver status for DH at midnight or later.
When we need a big space, we still get a 2 or 3 BR at Marriott or HGVC, but otherwise DVC rocks, IMHO.


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## JulieAB (Nov 15, 2019)

Because I want to be in the disney bubble.  We've been going to disneyland for 22 years, long before we had kids, and we know we'll continue to go after they've gone.  We're on the west coast, so we own at grand californian.  I don't want to wait in another line for the tram, walk through the long parking garage, wait for the shuttle, or make the trek through anaheim to get to my hotel.  I want to walk directly to my disney room at the end of the night and when I wake up in the morning, I want to look outside my window and see I'm still in the disney bubble.  

It took us a long time to get to this place to be able to afford such a luxury purchase.  And yes, that's exactly what it is, it doesn't save me any money at all.  But after 20 years of waiting in end of the night transportation lines, I was happy to say, I'm DONE with them!


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## littlestar (Nov 15, 2019)

We own DVC to stay in the Disney bubble in Orlando. We treat the grand kids and family and friends with nights here or there - one of the teens from my church (who has suffered a lot due to her birth mother’s mental illness) hugged me and thanked me profusely for booking her family a few nights at Animal Kingdom Lodge during fall break.  She said it was amazing and she absolutely loved it.  I could not do things like that without DVC.

The bulk of our points are at SSR. I have been able to book Polynesian standard view studios easily at the 7 month window. Also have had great availability in 1 bedrooms for all resorts at the 7 month window. I am a big fan of Sheraton Vistana Resort in Orlando and we like to book it and tack on a few days at Disney with our DVC points.


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## chalee94 (Nov 15, 2019)

JohnB3 said:


> Some of the other items Charles lists are not available to resale buyers (which is really the best financial choice if buying IMHO) like epcot lounge, and dining discounts as well as the member perks like moonlight magic



Oops. Yes, I got caught up in the "why do I own?" question and not the "should the OP buy resale?" question...

It's really all about how important the onsite bubble is for you. It's much cheaper for me to stay for a week in a 2BR Marriott or Sheraton nearby than onsite in a studio (even at lower cost OKW) for 5 nights. If you are committed to staying onsite at least once a year in a moderate or deluxe, my historical advice is to buy DVC.

I would hold off a little to see if the new point charts for 2021 include higher per-night costs across the board. DVC management was threatening increases last year but held off. If they start increasing the point charts every year (assuming the change survives litigation), it will blow up any value proposition DVC still has.

If you don't already know, I would also add that you do need to plan well in advance whether renting or owning DVC. Booking at 11 months is often necessary during peak DVC booking season (for stays in Sept through mid-January or so). If you are traveling in the summer, you will find more options at 7 months out (but you should still plan to book exactly when the window opens, if possible).

Renting has a lot of limitations (no refunds along with early commitment) but ownership is increasingly risky. Take your time in deciding whether to commit or not...


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## TheHolleys87 (Nov 15, 2019)

We've been owners for 20+ years, not as long as Charles but long enough to have amortized our buy-in and feel that we stay now for the cost of dues.  So we plan to just go with the flow, as long as we can still book the DVC vacations we want, but I wouldn't say we're "enthusiastic" about our DVC - at least, we're not as enthusiastic as we used to be.

Over the years we've often suggested to families during casual conversations in line, etc., that they look into buying DVC, but I don't think we're going to do that anymore due to the changes DVC management is making or trying to make (as noted above by Charles), not to mention the cost of points both resale and direct.  I too would recommend waiting until the 2021 points charts are released (they usually come out in late December or early January, must come out by late January when people can begin making reservations that include January 1, 2021) to see what they do.  The bottom line is that I no longer trust them to act in best interests of the membership; there are too many conflicts of interest in the overall DVC organization.

While you're waiting for the new points charts and contemplating what to do, you might find the charts in this DIS thread useful.  It's a historical look at booking patterns that can give you some idea of how easy it would be to book Poly at 7 months (owning elsewhere, like SSR, where the buy-in and member fees are cheaper) vs. at 11 months as a Poly owner.  https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...tember-2019-2-bd-added.3689931/#post-59393062

And the 2020 member fees were just released too - find them, and discussions thereof, here: https://www.disboards.com/threads/2020-dvc-annual-dues.3778630/


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## JohnB3 (Nov 15, 2019)

chalee94 said:


> Oops. Yes, I got caught up in the "why do I own?" question and not the "should the OP buy resale?" question...
> 
> It's really all about how important the onsite bubble is for you. It's much cheaper for me to stay for a week in a 2BR Marriott or Sheraton nearby than onsite in a studio (even at lower cost OKW) for 5 nights. If you are committed to staying onsite at least once a year in a moderate or deluxe, my historical advice is to buy DVC.
> 
> ...



Charles, mine was not a critical comment so much as a bit of additional info.  BTW I agree that what DVC management did with Riviera resale restrictions leaves me feeling like I doubt I'd take a Riviera resale contract for free and under no circumstances would i suggest anyone buy one from disney.  I'm a post 2016 pre 2019 resale buyer and I'm up about $10 a point on the transaction today were I to sell.  My girls are all disney nuts so we go to WDW more often that our points allow so I trade in at least once a year.  We generally want at least a 1 bedroom so some of the booking difficulties are mitigated since its much tighter if you want a studio and we are quite happy in SSR or AKL.   However if DVC management manages to get that breakage fee nonsense into the points charts I may have to sell and rely on trading in when we want to go.  Perhaps last years backlash was enough to stop the nonsense on wholesale messing with the points charts.


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 15, 2019)

Thanks for that! Out of @chalee94 's  list, these are the most attractive ones to me:
-onsite WDW fast pass booking at 60 days
-access to the Bay Lake Tower - Top of the World Lounge for MK fireworks
-pool hopping is an option (not a big deal for me)

Would we get those 3 on resale?

Thanks also to @chalee94 for the list!



JohnB3 said:


> 60 day fast passes
> extra magic hours
> free parking at the resorts and parks and airport transportation
> 
> ...


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 15, 2019)

Thanks! Those are great reasons. I never thought about the autonomy it will give my kids when they're older. We have only done character dining (almost all of them) at the WDW resorts. I wasn't even aware they have food courts on site!



elaine said:


> we had very good trips at 2BR TS near WDW for 5 years before we bought a resale DVC contract. What we love about DVC:
> fabulous community halls with engaging activities for my kids. they're' just different form any other kids club (think daycare vs/ montessori-not exact but you get the idea).
> buses everywhere--we didn't even have a car
> fp at 60 days (didn't exist when we bought)
> ...


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 15, 2019)

Thanks, that makes sense. We are in Colorado so I've considered Grand Californian too but I didn't want to pay the premium to only trade into FL resorts some years. GC would be a killer purchase if we planned on only staying at GC every year. 

Also I'm not sure if we would continue going when the kids age out and who knows if we then all age back in with grandkids (decadesssss later haha!) So that's a good consideration point too, thanks!



JulieAB said:


> Because I want to be in the disney bubble.  We've been going to disneyland for 22 years, long before we had kids, and we know we'll continue to go after they've gone.  We're on the west coast, so we own at grand californian.  I don't want to wait in another line for the tram, walk through the long parking garage, wait for the shuttle, or make the trek through anaheim to get to my hotel.  I want to walk directly to my disney room at the end of the night and when I wake up in the morning, I want to look outside my window and see I'm still in the disney bubble.
> 
> It took us a long time to get to this place to be able to afford such a luxury purchase.  And yes, that's exactly what it is, it doesn't save me any money at all.  But after 20 years of waiting in end of the night transportation lines, I was happy to say, I'm DONE with them!


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 15, 2019)

THAT IS A GREAT POINT!! I never thought about that; thanks for bringing it to my attention. That is one hesitancy I have with any points-based program and not a deeded week program is when points are inflated! Hyatt is on our list of MAYBE ADD FOR FUTURE as well and I would never touch their Portfolio Points program for this very reason. I figure if we own a deeded week and points inflate, the points you own would also inflate. 

So I remember asking a DVC booth person at WDW this question and their comment was that DVC wouldn't inflate the points chart but they would increase the $/pt over time. I found that to be reasonable but given the insider knowledge here, I'm so glad you guys brought it back up to my attention and consideration.

How is the DVC program as far as borrowing from future years or a temporary add if you're short like 1-10 points?

In this case I will def hold off at least until new chart is released. But even if so, like you all are saying, there's no guarantee they don't turn around in near future years and inflate the points chart. Does that have to be voted in by members or is that purely a DVC decision?

Also - yep I am well aware of the 7/11 month booking windows and how availability goes quickly especially for the prized ones and how some, if not home resort, are basically impossible even at the 7 month mark. Correct me if I'm wrong but it would be extremely tough/almost impossible to get GC, GF, AKL value @ the 7 month mark. Studios are generally tougher than 1/2/+bdrms.





chalee94 said:


> Oops. Yes, I got caught up in the "why do I own?" question and not the "should the OP buy resale?" question...
> 
> It's really all about how important the onsite bubble is for you. It's much cheaper for me to stay for a week in a 2BR Marriott or Sheraton nearby than onsite in a studio (even at lower cost OKW) for 5 nights. If you are committed to staying onsite at least once a year in a moderate or deluxe, my historical advice is to buy DVC.
> 
> ...


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 15, 2019)

Those links were super helpful, thank you! Interesting about the 8% increase - that is HUGE! I actually had an 8% increase on my Vistana SBP this year too but that's after quite a few years of steady increases. Regardless though, ugh!

It's a bit disappointing to hear that DVC is no longer reputable for acting in member's best interests. I have always found that DVC owners are all sooo passionate about their ownership (compared to other owners I've met) and I always thought that part of it was how wonderful the overall DVC customer service is both on the backend and in the resorts. 

As I wrote above, I will def wait til the 2021 points chart comes out to decide on a contract or not.





TheHolleys87 said:


> We've been owners for 20+ years, not as long as Charles but long enough to have amortized our buy-in and feel that we stay now for the cost of dues.  So we plan to just go with the flow, as long as we can still book the DVC vacations we want, but I wouldn't say we're "enthusiastic" about our DVC - at least, we're not as enthusiastic as we used to be.
> 
> Over the years we've often suggested to families during casual conversations in line, etc., that they look into buying DVC, but I don't think we're going to do that anymore due to the changes DVC management is making or trying to make (as noted above by Charles), not to mention the cost of points both resale and direct.  I too would recommend waiting until the 2021 points charts are released (they usually come out in late December or early January, must come out by late January when people can begin making reservations that include January 1, 2021) to see what they do.  The bottom line is that I no longer trust them to act in best interests of the membership; there are too many conflicts of interest in the overall DVC organization.
> 
> ...


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 15, 2019)

I was doing a decent job following along until this LOL. Lots of questions, please extend your patience 

1. What did DVC management do with the Riviera resale restrictions?
2. When you say you go to WDW more often than your points allow so you trade in at least once a year, what do you mean you trade in? So you have some additional points you have access to? RCI?
3. What is the breakage fee nonsense?
4. Why do you think the resale capital cost has gone up $10/point the last 3 years? Macro Economy better? Less inventory? I read some past posts on BLT and they were using $90/pt in calculations. I was surprised to see how much it has gone up!
5. What was the backlash from last year?
6. What was the wholesale messing with points chart??

Thanks in advance!



JohnB3 said:


> Charles, mine was not a critical comment so much as a bit of additional info.  BTW I agree that what DVC management did with Riviera resale restrictions leaves me feeling like I doubt I'd take a Riviera resale contract for free and under no circumstances would i suggest anyone buy one from disney.  I'm a post 2016 pre 2019 resale buyer and I'm up about $10 a point on the transaction today were I to sell.  My girls are all disney nuts so we go to WDW more often that our points allow so I trade in at least once a year.  We generally want at least a 1 bedroom so some of the booking difficulties are mitigated since its much tighter if you want a studio and we are quite happy in SSR or AKL.   However if DVC management manages to get that breakage fee nonsense into the points charts I may have to sell and rely on trading in when we want to go.  Perhaps last years backlash was enough to stop the nonsense on wholesale messing with the points charts.


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## JohnB3 (Nov 15, 2019)

SunsetMaven said:


> Thanks for that! Out of @chalee94 's  list, these are the most attractive ones to me:
> -onsite WDW fast pass booking at 60 days
> -access to the Bay Lake Tower - Top of the World Lounge for MK fireworks
> -pool hopping is an option (not a big deal for me)
> ...


yes as well as airport transport and free parking


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## JohnB3 (Nov 15, 2019)

SunsetMaven said:


> I was doing a decent job following along until this LOL. Lots of questions, please extend your patience
> 
> 1. What did DVC management do with the Riviera resale restrictions?
> 2. When you say you go to WDW more often than your points allow so you trade in at least once a year, what do you mean you trade in? So you have some additional points you have access to? RCI?
> ...


1 - If you buy a riviera contract resale you may only use it at riviera thats will really eliminate most of the value in the points system
 2 - yes I own RCI points and use those to book SSR 1 beds
3 - While the total number of points sold at the resort is fixed the management co can and does realign them.  up until last year if a room type was increased some place at a resort there was an equivalent reduction somewhere else to offset the increase.  Last year te management co tried to increase the cost of both studios and 1 bedrooms and justified as a fee to the management co for breaking up a two bedroom.  the effect was based on normal rental patterns for disney (lots of studios get booked) the total number of points to book the resort increased
4 - Disney increases prices regularly and the legacy resorts resale generally follow those increases
5 - the members threatened to sue and the management co backed off the proposed changes
6 - see item 3


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 15, 2019)

Awesome - that clarified it all. THANKS! 

#3 is nuts. It's concerning that it was even proposed. I have heard about the points shift but did understand, as you wrote below, that total # of points at a resort should remain constant. I am shocked that they tried to go at it but increasing total # of points as a whole. AND JUSTIFIED THE EXTRA AS A FEE TO THE MGMT CO - WHAT?!??? 

This area is one of concern to me for Poly as well. Their villas cost so many points and since the only other product are studios, I see the studios absorbing more of those points during realignment than any other resort where 1 bdrms would also bear the weight of 2bdrms and their relative unpopularity.




JohnB3 said:


> 1 - If you buy a riviera contract resale you may only use it at riviera thats will really eliminate most of the value in the points system
> 2 - yes I own RCI points and use those to book SSR 1 beds
> 3 - While the total number of points sold at the resort is fixed the management co can and does realign them.  up until last year if a room type was increased some place at a resort there was an equivalent reduction somewhere else to offset the increase.  Last year te management co tried to increase the cost of both studios and 1 bedrooms and justified as a fee to the management co for breaking up a two bedroom.  the effect was based on normal rental patterns for disney (lots of studios get booked) the total number of points to book the resort increased
> 4 - Disney increases prices regularly and the legacy resorts resale generally follow those increases
> ...


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 15, 2019)

You could still just buy a trader and trade into SSR as a guarantee (it really is almost a guarantee for almost every week of the year with an ongoing search).  You get all of the benefits of owning, especially now that they took away so many benefits of resale, anyway. 

I did advise our kids to buy a small contract retail because they can use those benefits.  They love Disney cruises for their little girl, and they get AP's most years.  I have no idea if they would even consider buying anything resale.

I love DVC because I can book when I want, even at 7 months out, and I can rent my points for a good deal over MF's.  But I also paid $50 per point resale about 10 years ago.


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## JohnB3 (Nov 15, 2019)

SunsetMaven said:


> Awesome - that clarified it all. THANKS!
> 
> #3 is nuts. It's concerning that it was even proposed. I have heard about the points shift but did understand, as you wrote below, that total # of points at a resort should remain constant. I am shocked that they tried to go at it but increasing total # of points as a whole. AND JUSTIFIED THE EXTRA AS A FEE TO THE MGMT CO - WHAT?!???
> 
> This area is one of concern to me for Poly as well. Their villas cost so many points and since the only other product are studios, I see the studios absorbing more of those points during realignment than any other resort where 1 bdrms would also bear the weight of 2bdrms and their relative unpopularity.


I think with poly, since its all studios and bungalows and there is nothing to lock off the only thing (and in my mind a likely change) is points for the bungalows go down a bit and studios go up a bit but the management co has less opportunity to play there.  As a result if you wanted to buy one now poly has little real risk regarding points inflation.  I've heard that the bungalows book slowly due to the high cost and that has been a driver of points reallocation.  The purchase advice you usually get is to buy 10% to 15% more points than you plan to used based on current point charts to ensure you will be able to book the vacations you want.   I have a fair number of points and I generally stay in 1 bed rooms but I find I could use more.  I know I sound like I might be unhappy but the issue is that DVC was nothing like other timeshares and many of the noises coming out of disney make it feel like its becoming a "normal" timeshare


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## JulieAB (Nov 15, 2019)

Personally, it seemed like people freaked out about the point allocation more than seemed "appropriate."  Everyone's always known the points can be reallocated, so the advice has always been to buy a little more points than you think you'll need.  I can kinda understand if you pinched your pennies to buy exactly 1 week in an AKV value studio during choice season, and the charts changed.  But that was a gamble purchase, and if you're that tight you didn't buy some buffer points, maybe this is not quite the luxury purchase for you?   So one's own personal finances and willingness to gamble should be taken into consideration.  

You can buy up to 24 "one time use points" per year for currently $19 per point, but they can only be purchased over the phone within 7 months.  So if you're trying for a tough reservation that books up in seconds, there's no chance of buying OTU points for it because those have to be in hand when booking.  Everyone that booked online with their own points will likely beat you.

The resale value of the original 14 resorts is very good, however, so if you purchased a resale contract at one of the more reasonably-priced resorts and was willing to stay where available, you could recoup your money and then some 10 years down the road when you no longer want to vacation there.  Disney also has a healthy rental market at the moment, so you could rent your points out during years you don't want to use it if you want to hang on until you have grandkids.

If you have to have the disney bubble, it think a DVC purchase is worth it.  If you're just fine off-site, just rent when you want a change.


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## elaine (Nov 15, 2019)

I think DVC got a lot of backlash and reverted back to 2019 allocation in the end. Only a few resorts which had fewer studios and 1BRs were affected, I believe. AKV did not change.


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 15, 2019)

OP here. (Not an owner...yet but) I wouldn't be upset about a points reallocation since that is always a possibility but I think I would take exception to a reallocation that resulted in an increase in total points per resort post reallocation. Isn't that what people were mad about and not the reallocation itself? I have no idea - just learned about the reallocation issue and trying to learn more about what went on.

Thanks!




JulieAB said:


> Personally, it seemed like people freaked out about the point allocation more than seemed "appropriate."  Everyone's always known the points can be reallocated, so the advice has always been to buy a little more points than you think you'll need.  I can kinda understand if you pinched your pennies to buy exactly 1 week in an AKV value studio during choice season, and the charts changed.  But that was a gamble purchase, and if you're that tight you didn't buy some buffer points, maybe this is not quite the luxury purchase for you?   So one's own personal finances and willingness to gamble should be taken into consideration.
> 
> You can buy up to 24 "one time use points" per year for currently $19 per point, but they can only be purchased over the phone within 7 months.  So if you're trying for a tough reservation that books up in seconds, there's no chance of buying OTU points for it because those have to be in hand when booking.  Everyone that booked online with their own points will likely beat you.
> 
> ...


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## JohnB3 (Nov 16, 2019)

take a look at this thread on DISboard on the topic.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/wondering-about-the-lock-off-premium.3144772/#post-60080863

 I'm happy with my resale DVC contract and tend to agree with JulieAB that the conversation generated more noise than its worth but as a 2nd class marriott resale owner I really did not want to see DVC move in Marriott's direction (I am happy with my Marriott as well but I "bought it" very cheap and knew I was second class going in).  When I bought my resale DVC contract I spent a bit of money and I felt the difference between resale and direct was minor and not really important to me.  I'd hate to see a trend where that difference moved in Marriotts direction.  Because one of the reasons I felt OK spending some real cash was I felt like there was a real chance I'd preserve much of the value I put in were I to sell in 10 years.  If that starts to change the finance guy in me will likely swap into some more cheap marriott or hilton resale contracts and miss out on the bubble experience when I can't trade into SSR via RCI


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## TheHolleys87 (Nov 16, 2019)

JulieAB said:


> Everyone's always known the points can be reallocated, so the advice has always been to buy a little more points than you think you'll need.



The issue was not that they simply reallocated points.  They've done that in the past - increased weekday points costs with corresponding weekend points cost for the same size unit, divided SSR into Preferred and Standard areas with reallocations of points costs for each size unit, etc.  The issue with the initial 2020 points charts was that they increased points costs for studios and 1 bedrooms and decreased 2 bedrooms, and that violated the POS documents not to mention the advertising materials from past years, which always stated that points for a given size unit could be reallocated but did not allow points to be reallocated from one size unit to another.  DVC's claim that 1 bedroom units were increased because they were in such high demand compared to 2 bedroom units was laughable!



JohnB3 said:


> take a look at this thread on DISboard on the topic.
> 
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/wondering-about-the-lock-off-premium.3144772/#post-60080863
> 
> I'm happy with my resale DVC contract and tend to agree with JulieAB that the conversation generated more noise than its worth but as a 2nd class marriott resale owner I really did not want to see DVC move in Marriott's direction (I am happy with my Marriott as well but I "bought it" very cheap and knew I was second class going in).  When I bought my resale DVC contract I spent a bit of money and I felt the difference between resale and direct was minor and not really important to me.  I'd hate to see a trend where that difference moved in Marriotts direction.  Because one of the reasons I felt OK spending some real cash was I felt like there was a real chance I'd preserve much of the value I put in were I to sell in 10 years.  If that starts to change the finance guy in me will likely swap into some more cheap marriott or hilton resale contracts and miss out on the bubble experience when I can't trade into SSR via RCI



I think that the reason the points charts reverted to 2019 was because of the noise and also the letters/emails that DVC received that led to conversations with DVC officials (Yvonne Chang in particular).  Now that they've had a year to review and revise and set their talking points, I think many of us are waiting with some degree of angst to see what the 2021 charts look like.

I do believe the direct vs. resale trend is moving in the Marriott direction, although I also believe it remains to be seen whether when Reflections goes on sale DVC creates a DVC 2 within which Riviera and Reflections and future resorts can trade (whether direct or resale) but only direct points can trade to DVC 1 (the legacy 14) and whether they also impose some additional trading restrictions between the legacy 14 and DVC 2 resorts that affect resale and possibly also direct buyers.  The way the Riviera contracts are written leads me to believe they have full powers to do whatever they want (i.e., whatever they believe will make them the most money) with Riviera, Reflections and any new resorts going forward.


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## Deb & Bill (Nov 16, 2019)

So many guests were upset when Disney decided to charge for overnight parking at the resorts.  However, DVC member staying at their resort or another DVC resort don't have to pay the overnight parking charge.  If they stay on a cash reservation at a non-DVC resort, they do have to pay the overnight parking fee. 

With the changes to Epcot, the DVC member lounge could disappear next year if they do vast renovation there.  Top of the World Lounge has been slowly adding member only events that charge for the privilege of going to the lounge. And the event is pretty costly.  So far July 4th and NYE have been taken over by DVC for these events.


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 16, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> You could still just buy a trader and trade into SSR as a guarantee (it really is almost a guarantee for almost every week of the year with an ongoing search).  You get all of the benefits of owning, especially now that they took away so many benefits of resale, anyway.
> 
> I did advise our kids to buy a small contract retail because they can use those benefits.  They love Disney cruises for their little girl, and they get AP's most years.  I have no idea if they would even consider buying anything resale.
> 
> I love DVC because I can book when I want, even at 7 months out, and I can rent my points for a good deal over MF's.  But I also paid $50 per point resale about 10 years ago.



Yep - I still need to check out your recommendation on Grandview at Las Vegas from my other post - thanks again for that. I was just thinking if I would truly feel the DVC experience at SSR. It seems like the perks that excite me are going to be more of the resorts on the monorail line.


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## SunsetMaven (Nov 16, 2019)

Deb & Bill said:


> So many guests were upset when Disney decided to charge for overnight parking at the resorts.  However, DVC member staying at their resort or another DVC resort don't have to pay the overnight parking charge.  If they stay on a cash reservation at a non-DVC resort, they do have to pay the overnight parking fee.
> 
> With the changes to Epcot, the DVC member lounge could disappear next year if they do vast renovation there.  Top of the World Lounge has been slowly adding member only events that charge for the privilege of going to the lounge. And the event is pretty costly.  So far July 4th and NYE have been taken over by DVC for these events.



Do resale owners have top of the world lounge access?


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## TheHolleys87 (Nov 17, 2019)

SunsetMaven said:


> Do resale owners have top of the world lounge access?



Yes they do. You need to be staying at any onsite Disney resort (not limited to DVC) and show your member card (online or printout) and let them scan your MB. Anyone staying on the same reservation with you can go up too.


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## blondietink (Nov 23, 2019)

We bought in to SSR 15 years ago and within 2 years of staying onsite 3 times each year as AP holders, we broke even on our investment. At that time the minimum points to buy in was 160 and we bought 175 points. We also own Sheraton Vistana Villages and stay there sometimes when we want to go to Universal Studios or add a few extra days at the parks.  Over the years we have become less Disney focused and have gone to Hawaii and used our points at Aulani 3 times now, with a 4th hopefully next fall.  Last October we stayed at BLT for the first time and loved it so much we are staying again next January. The walk to MK can't be beat and the bus service from Contemporary was the best we have encountered.  As we age, we find that we cannot do rope drop to closing the parks anymore.  Staying on-site allows us to take our time more than staying off-site when we have to figure in travel time and parking costs.  Two of us have special diets and I end up cooking most of our meals so the convenience of having a kitchen is priceless to us and saves us a ton of money compared to eating at the parks. We no longer see the value of holding AP's because we are down to going every 18 months or 2 years.  We save our points to stay longer or go to Hawaii.


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## famy27 (Nov 27, 2019)

The only regret I have about DVC is that I didn't buy sooner. We had Wyndham points and exchanged in through RCI, so it was very low cost for us to do DVC using Wyndham. However, RCI costs have increased, the $95 Disney fee went to $190, and the number/variety of resorts deposited was severely reduced, so we decided the time was right to buy DVC. We are so happy with our purchase. But DVC works particularly well for us for a few reasons. One is that we take frequent, short trips. We're going in December, and it will be our 7th trip this year (a new record for us!). We own at BLT and CC so that we can get discounts and all the benefits. I particularly bought CC because I didn't want to be stuck with the Riviera limitations. In some years, we've rented out half of our DVC points to cover all of our MFs. But this year, we just used the heck out of our points. 

Here's where we've stayed this year:
SSR studio for three nights in January (45 points)
AKV savanna studio for two nights in February (38 points)
BLT studio for three night in March (63 points) 
BWV studio for two nights in April 58 points)
SSR one-bedroom for seven nights in July (RCI exchange using Wyndham points). Rented out 79 BLT points for 4th of July to cover some costs 
Poly studio for two nights in October (48 points)
SSR two-bedroom for two nights in December and one night at a Poly studio (86 points total)

We used 338 points and rented out 79 points for $1400. The rental covered my Wyndham MFs and RCI fees with a little left over. Our DVC MFs are about $2300 for the year. So we spent 22 nights in DVC units for about $100 per night. To us, that's a great value.  Also, our BLT points have gone up so much that if we sold them tomorrow, we'd basically have vacationed for free for the past few years. We're extremely happy with our DVC investment.


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## CPNY (Jan 22, 2020)

So much amazing information here. I recently went on a sales presentation. I currently own vistana villages and have been getting great deals on interval getaways. Just got back this week, got a 2 bedroom for $550. We rented a car for 100 bucks. I toured riviera and would love to stay there. It is exactly the type of accommodations I would want to stay at. However, with the resale restrictions I wouldn’t never buy there but i would try to use my points there. So I was offered SSR for a contract. Ultimately I didn’t buy as I had more questions. First, I wouldn’t want a studio ever. I would require a one bedroom at the very least, a two bedroom would be ideal. I wouldn’t go for a full week but most likely for 4-5 nights at a time. I’d be open to staying at other resorts since I tend to book less than 7 mo out. Usually 5 mo or less. My questions are:

1. with riviera restrictions, is there Any value owning there booking less than 7 months? Or is it actually worse due to inventory being limited?
2. Considering I’d be looking at resorts like OKW and SSR booking last minute, is it worth it buying a trader unit in RCI and trying to get availability that way? I tend to travel early to mid December or the fall for FW festival and Occasionally/rarely in the spring.

general question on FastPasses. If I book a week in DVC and only decide on going to the parks the last three days and I make my fast passes, then decide to cut the trip in half last minute would I lose those fast passes? My schedule with work changes so frequently which is why I need to book less than 7mo. I’d hate to lose the FP i have booked for the last 3 days of the reservation that I’m in the park because the first 4 days relaxing in the resort is being Cancelled


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## littlestar (Jan 22, 2020)

Inventory during the fall frenzy time is some of the hardest times to book DVC, along with the first part of December.  Spring is easier.  I would not purchase something to specifically trade into DVC with - things change and about the only thing that ever turns up are SSR 1 bedrooms.

You could buy a small resale points package at SSR.  Or if the annual pass discount is something you would like, buy 100 SSR points direct from Disney to get the discounts/benefits realizing that it is not guaranteed but so far has been available.

Riviera has high dues, high point chart and resale restrictions to only staying at Riviera which would mean as more and more of it is resold you would need to book early to get anything or risk being shut out completely.


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## CPNY (Jan 22, 2020)

littlestar said:


> Inventory during the fall frenzy time is some of the hardest times to book DVC, along with the first part of December.  Spring is easier.  I would not purchase something to specifically trade into DVC with - things change and about the only thing that ever turns up are SSR 1 bedrooms.
> 
> You could buy a small resale points package at SSR.  Or if the annual pass discount is something you would like, buy 100 SSR points direct from Disney to get the discounts/benefits realizing that it is not guaranteed but so far has been available.
> 
> Riviera has high dues, high point chart and resale restrictions to only staying at Riviera which would mean as more and more of it is resold you would need to book early to get anything or risk being shut out completely.


Yeah I think buying at riviera is completely out. SSR is an option and I think could be the way to go. I wonder if I can enroll my current ownerships I have in II into RCI as well. Then I would just pay the RCI fee and book when I can, although I don’t think my resort is in RCI. Maybe I’ll look for a small 100 point contract on resale. I wonder what that will get me


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## littlestar (Jan 22, 2020)

Take a look at the DVC point charts.  Disboards have all the point charts listed. How many points depend on time of year, size of unit, and Friday and Saturday nights require more points.


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## TheHolleys87 (Jan 22, 2020)

CPNY said:


> general question on FastPasses. If I book a week in DVC and only decide on going to the parks the last three days and I make my fast passes, then decide to cut the trip in half last minute would I lose those fast passes? My schedule with work changes so frequently which is why I need to book less than 7mo. I’d hate to lose the FP i have booked for the last 3 days of the reservation that I’m in the park because the first 4 days relaxing in the resort is being Cancelled


@littlestar has given you good information in answering your other questions.  Re the FPs, my understanding is that if you book FPs at 60 days and then cancel your resort stay, you have roughly 48 hours to link a different Disney resort stay to MDE in order to retain those FPs.  (The general advice is to book and link the replacement stay first, then cancel the original one.)  So I believe that if you cancelled just the first several days of a reservation and kept the last few, the FPs you booked for those last days would remain.

For more information, you could post your question on this thread: https://www.disboards.com/threads/fastpass-frequently-asked-questions.3491680/


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## JohnB3 (Jan 23, 2020)

CPNY said:


> So much amazing information here. I recently went on a sales presentation. I currently own vistana villages and have been getting great deals on interval getaways. Just got back this week, got a 2 bedroom for $550. We rented a car for 100 bucks. I toured riviera and would love to stay there. It is exactly the type of accommodations I would want to stay at. However, with the resale restrictions I wouldn’t never buy there but i would try to use my points there. So I was offered SSR for a contract. Ultimately I didn’t buy as I had more questions. First, I wouldn’t want a studio ever. I would require a one bedroom at the very least, a two bedroom would be ideal. I wouldn’t go for a full week but most likely for 4-5 nights at a time. I’d be open to staying at other resorts since I tend to book less than 7 mo out. Usually 5 mo or less. My questions are:
> 
> 1. with riviera restrictions, is there Any value owning there booking less than 7 months? Or is it actually worse due to inventory being limited?
> 2. Considering I’d be looking at resorts like OKW and SSR booking last minute, is it worth it buying a trader unit in RCI and trying to get availability that way? I tend to travel early to mid December or the fall for FW festival and Occasionally/rarely in the spring.
> ...



I own post 2016/pre 2019 resale points at SSR (I don't have a blue membership card but can book the new resorts). I don't see much (or any) value in the rivera product I think DVC is making a long term mistake with the changes related to Rivera and reflections  but different folks have different views.  I don't think I'd take a rivera resale contract if someone offered it to me for free given the restrictions and cost.  

I've had good luck trading into SSR with an RCI trader but if you want to be sure of staying at DVC trading has risk.

I think for short notice travel SSR & OKW are your most likely options and 1 bedrooms are the most available categories.  Littlestar pointed you to disboards and there is a lot of great info on DVC over there  take a look at this great resource from Skier_pete https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-bd-charts-september-2019-2-bd-added.3689931/. this can help you decide if DVC will work for the way you travel.  I'd not buy direct from Disney but many folks do, I'm happy with my DVC and my family love staying on sight when we go to WDW.  We have used our points at a number of resorts and don't have too much trouble booking (we usually book 1 bedrooms) and my girls love Disney Springs so SSR is not a hardship for us.


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## CPNY (Jan 23, 2020)

JohnB3 said:


> I own post 2016/pre 2019 resale points at SSR (I don't have a blue membership card but can book the new resorts). I don't see much (or any) value in the rivera product I think DVC is making a long term mistake with the changes related to Rivera and reflections  but different folks have different views.  I don't think I'd take a rivera resale contract if someone offered it to me for free given the restrictions and cost.
> 
> I've had good luck trading into SSR with an RCI trader but if you want to be sure of staying at DVC trading has risk.
> 
> I think for short notice travel SSR & OKW are your most likely options and 1 bedrooms are the most available categories.  Littlestar pointed you to disboards and there is a lot of great info on DVC over there  take a look at this great resource from Skier_pete https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-bd-charts-september-2019-2-bd-added.3689931/. this can help you decide if DVC will work for the way you travel.  I'd not buy direct from Disney but many folks do, I'm happy with my DVC and my family love staying on sight when we go to WDW.  We have used our points at a number of resorts and don't have too much trouble booking (we usually book 1 bedrooms) and my girls love Disney Springs so SSR is not a hardship for us.


Thank you for the insight. Riviera restrictions are difficult to swallow. If you don’t book at 11 Mo I’m sure there will be nothing at 7 or even less making your points useless. I’ve been checking disboards and trying to get info. I hear some people having success with RCI trading but I agree I don’t want to be stuck with a trader I can’t get rid of.


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## JohnB3 (Jan 23, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Thank you for the insight. Riviera restrictions are difficult to swallow. If you don’t book at 11 Mo I’m sure there will be nothing at 7 or even less making your points useless. I’ve been checking disboards and trying to get info. I hear some people having success with RCI trading but I agree I don’t want to be stuck with a trader I can’t get rid of.


To be clear about RCI trading if you are flexible there are good deals at SSR often, OKW occasionally and AKL rarely.  Ive done 3 RCI DVC trades in the last 2 years and all of them on school holidays (2 MLK week and 1 spring break) but trading require careful attention and some flexibility.  I think I've seen you over at the sighting board so you know what's happening.  Your short notice scheduling might be no worse with a cheap RCI trader (I use a Grandview Las Vegas points contract) than it would be with SSR points.  I think about my DVC points as the way I book AKL (although I have gotten that with RCI) BCV, BWV etc but all of those require me to have a plan in place and to book when the 7 month window opens. The other opportunity RCI opens up is the Hilton properties good luck deciding what to do


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## CPNY (Jan 23, 2020)

JohnB3 said:


> To be clear about RCI trading if you are flexible there are good deals at SSR often, OKW occasionally and AKL rarely.  Ive done 3 RCI DVC trades in the last 2 years and all of them on school holidays (2 MLK week and 1 spring break) but trading require careful attention and some flexibility.  I think I've seen you over at the sighting board so you know what's happening.  Your short notice scheduling might be no worse with a cheap RCI trader (I use a Grandview Las Vegas points contract) than it would be with SSR points.  I think about my DVC points as the way I book AKL (although I have gotten that with RCI) BCV, BWV etc but all of those require me to have a plan in place and to book when the 7 month window opens. The other opportunity RCI opens up is the Hilton properties good luck deciding what to do


Yeah the HGVC was on the back of my mind. However, having VSE and access to MVC has been nice. I guess with RCI fees plus the DVC 190 fee is it really saving that much?  Is it possible to buy a 50 or 75 point resale contract as a new owner? The idea there would be to go over other year or every 3 years a few nights in a 2 bedroom.


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## littlestar (Jan 23, 2020)

Resale contracts come in all sizes usually starting at 25 points and up. You usually pay a premium for a small one, though.


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## elaine (Jan 23, 2020)

yep. I did just that 10 years ago and it worked great for us! I did the borrow/banking to get up to 150 points every 3 years. We eventually sold our 50 point contract and just bought another resale 160 DVC points. No regrets. would do the same again.


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## JohnB3 (Jan 23, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Yeah the HGVC was on the back of my mind. However, having VSE and access to MVC has been nice. I guess with RCI fees plus the DVC 190 fee is it really saving that much?  Is it possible to buy a 50 or 75 point resale contract as a new owner? The idea there would be to go over other year or every 3 years a few nights in a 2 bedroom.


Yes it's easy enough to buy a small contract.  The thing is all two bedrooms at Disney are made up of a studio and a 1 bedroom (all lockoffs) and Studios book up first due to low point requirements, so unless you can also book in your home resort window (11 to 7 months out) you are not likely to find a 2 bed available.  I think you said you would likely book later than 7 months if I had that restriction it would discourage me from buying a DVC contract unless I could live with a 1 bedroom


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## TheHolleys87 (Jan 23, 2020)

JohnB3 said:


> The thing is all two bedrooms at Disney are made up of a studio and a 1 bedroom (all lockoffs)


This is true for BWV but not for all the other DVC resorts.  BCV, BLT, BRV, AKL-K, CCV, VGF all have dedicated 2-bedrooms - I'm pretty sure there are others but don't have time to look them all up right now.  But despite that, 2-bedroom villas do book up faster than 1-bedroom villas pretty uniformly across the WDW resorts, so it's best not to count on booking a 2-BR at 7 months, especially at the most popular times for DVC members (late September through January Marathon weekend as well as runDisney weekends).


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## CPNY (Jan 23, 2020)

TheHolleys87 said:


> This is true for BWV but not for all the other DVC resorts.  BCV, BLT, BRV, AKL-K, CCV, VGF all have dedicated 2-bedrooms - I'm pretty sure there are others but don't have time to look them all up right now.  But despite that, 2-bedroom villas do book up faster than 1-bedroom villas pretty uniformly across the WDW resorts, so it's best not to count on booking a 2-BR at 7 months, especially at the most popular times for DVC members (late September through January Marathon weekend as well as runDisney weekends).


Ah these are all great points, I can live with a one bedroom but then I’d need two lol. Hmm def makes things difficult to process. Maybe renting for the time being or just stick with the MVC getaways when I want to go. Then not worry about changing hotels when I go to universal.


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## JohnB3 (Jan 23, 2020)

TheHolleys87 said:


> This is true for BWV but not for all the other DVC resorts.  BCV, BLT, BRV, AKL-K, CCV, VGF all have dedicated 2-bedrooms - I'm pretty sure there are others but don't have time to look them all up right now.  But despite that, 2-bedroom villas do book up faster than 1-bedroom villas pretty uniformly across the WDW resorts, so it's best not to count on booking a 2-BR at 7 months, especially at the most popular times for DVC members (late September through January Marathon weekend as well as runDisney weekends).


my bad. should check myself before I talk.  Thanks for the correction


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