# Worldmark questions



## Tacoma (Dec 16, 2007)

Although I would like to buy points can't see it happening in the forseeable future.  Two questions, can a non owner rent points on the wmowners forum?  If so where I took a quick look at the site and couldn't figure out where to go. Also can a non owner join the forum?  I would like to try a worldmark resort before I buy.  Also until we give up our seasonal RV rental site which our kids go ballistic when we even mention this I can not justify a fourth week.

Thanks
Joan


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## RichM (Dec 16, 2007)

Non-owners cannot rent points - you have to be an owner to hold credits and book a unit.  There are many WM units available for cash rental out there from owners who are willing to assume liability and through developer programs so you might be able to try out a resort that way.

Anyone can register on the wmowners.com forum.


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## mshatty (Dec 17, 2007)

Joan,

As Rich M says you have to be a WM owner to rent credits from another owner.  However, you could do a straight unit rental from any WM owner who is willing to book the unit for you.


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## PerryM (Dec 17, 2007)

*Suit up for battle.....*



Tacoma said:


> Although I would like to buy points can't see it happening in the forseeable future.  Two questions, can a non owner rent points on the wmowners forum?  If so where I took a quick look at the site and couldn't figure out where to go. Also can a non owner join the forum?  I would like to try a worldmark resort before I buy.  Also until we give up our seasonal RV rental site which our kids go ballistic when we even mention this I can not justify a fourth week.
> 
> Thanks
> Joan



It will cost you *$4,200 + $150 in closing fees to become a WM owner of 6,000 WM credits*.  (70¢ a WM credit to buy resale).  Takes a week or so from start to end to become a WM owner.

Once you’ve done that you can rent unlimited WM credits for 7¢ from other WM owners and need not buy anymore credits.

However, WM resorts are minimum II 5-star (or whatever they are going to call it) and minimum RCI Gold Crown.  I personally loath them and consider them second rate timeshares.

The true power of WM is NOT their resorts but the great advantage you have in II and RCI.  That’s where your $4,200 WM investment will get you into Marriott resorts that cost $50,000.

So if you should rent a WM unit be prepared for a disappointment – I personally don’t think its worth staying at these creaky old resorts that have a funky smell to them.  But maybe you’ll luck out.

Oh, buy the way the words “Renting WM weeks” is a very touching subject on other chat rooms.  Tug folks rent out their units all the time and it’s part of their strategy of maximizing their money invested in timeshares - no problem here.

So if you have access to some old football equipment or hockey equipment you might put it on before venturing into WM timeshare rentals outside of Tug.  Just a friendly word to the wise.  Renting of WM credits is ok but renting WM weeks sets off VERY hot debates - go figure.

Good luck,


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## ladycody (Dec 17, 2007)

Dont let Perry getcha down.  

I've been to 8 resorts myself and I've not been disappointed yet.   I've also sent family/friends to 8 other resorts that I havent been to yet and they all enjoyed it immensely (3 became owners and 1 more will when their house sells....the others are just not in a position to own it but would if they could.)  

Having said that, Perry is right in that WM can also get you in to some other beautiful resorts....and if you know how to accomplish it, you can get alot more vacation time out of what you own.

As for rentals...dont let Perry scare you on that count either.   As has been said earlier...you could rent from an owner and test drive it.  There are listings in here and at wmowners and you can sometimes find decent WM rentals in a few other locations as well.

Good luck!


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## PerryM (Dec 17, 2007)

*Ok, ok, there are a few I would stay at...*

LadyCody is right there are some nice WM resorts – they are really a few condos at a much larger resort owned by someone else.  One we like is Wyndham’s Ocean Walk where WM has a few floors in the complex.  It’s maintinaed by Wyndham and is very nice.  It has concrete construction. 

Lake Of The Ozarks is a place we’ve been to and I used to gift weekends to friends and associates until I got the “Funky odor” comment form one and have stopped sending friends there.  I do remember that they had a neat burglar alarm – as you lie in bed the room would shake as someone walked by outside down the corridor.  And, as a bonus you could listen to "pillow talk" from other condos - this was fun.

If you can reserve the Fairfield units (Wyndham now) they are generally Marriott quality too.


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## Tacoma (Dec 17, 2007)

*Thanks for all the advice*

I can always count on TUGGERS for good advice.  Perry I always enjoy your posts but have to be honest I'm more of a Worldmark girl than a Mariott girl.  I like great locations and really don't care about the upscale resorts, my stress level would be great if I could just book where I want to go when I want to go and not have to wait to see if I get offered what I want from an exchange company. Besides as a teacher I can only use the most popular weeks which I'm sure would be harder to get at the best resorts.  I would be more than happy at any of the resorts in BC, Washington or Oregon that I've seen in Worldmark.  Now to try and justify buying another timeshare to my husband.

Joan


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## PerryM (Dec 18, 2007)

*What I do...*



Tacoma said:


> I can always count on TUGGERS for good advice.  Perry I always enjoy your posts but have to be honest I'm more of a Worldmark girl than a Mariott girl.  I like great locations and really don't care about the upscale resorts, my stress level would be great if I could just book where I want to go when I want to go and not have to wait to see if I get offered what I want from an exchange company. Besides as a teacher I can only use the most popular weeks which I'm sure would be harder to get at the best resorts.  I would be more than happy at any of the resorts in BC, Washington or Oregon that I've seen in Worldmark.  Now to try and justify buying another timeshare to my husband.
> 
> Joan



You may not believe this but the easiest weeks to get in II are hot holiday weeks.  You need to learn why this is true and take advantage of it.

Here is how I use WM to avoid WM:

1)	I place ongoing searches for hot holiday weeks in II up to 3 years in advance and if Marriott dumps inventory into II more than 13 months in front of the check-in day I get it, even though I must wait 24 days before I can see it.  It costs me NO WM credits to place these long term searches – not 1 WM credit!

2)	I make a WM reservation at a WM resort near where I want to vacation 13 months in advance

3)	I wait 336 days (13 months – 59 days) and many times I get an II exchange in that time period

4)	At 59 days before check in my ongoing II exchanges allow me to not check the flexchange inventory daily – my ongoing searches do it for me automatically

5)	Many times I get the II exchange the week before or after the 59-day window

6)	Up until 14 days before check-in I can still get an II exchange and turn in the WM reservation and there is a good chance I can get back some or all my WM credits

7) I know that many Marriotts have lockoffs and I have multiple searches to snag the studio side in one exchange and the 1BR in another exchange.  Marriott will then merge the two together into a 2BR.  I do this all the time.

8) I just love the 59-day II window and just 4,000 WM credits will snag ANY size unit in the II inventory that WM can see

I do the above for 4 or 5 locations and times and we always seem to be staying at much nicer resorts than WM and there is little stress involved. 

That’s it.  I make a WM reservation and if I get the II exchange roll those credits from the WM reservation over to II.  Many times the II exchange costs much less in terms of WM credits.  ALL 2BR Red II exchanges cost 10,000 WM credits.  Many WMs cost much more than that to use.  Marriotts are much cheaper to stay at than WMs!  Go figure.


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## Debbyd57 (Dec 20, 2007)

We just sold our WM credits (only because we were moving to the south and needed to liquidate some money quickly).  We also own FF/Wyndham points.  I have only stayed in one WM resort that wasn't nice.  It was Tahoe III.  FF is nice, but not Marriott nice and not much nicer than WM.   FF has the whirlpool tubs that WM doesn't have and it has nice heavy drapes instead of the blinds that let all the light in.   It angers me to hear WM bashed like that.  We loved WM resorts and have stayed at most of them in the WA, CA, AZ, and OR areas.  Unlike Perry, our WM points were what we used and exchanged with our other resorts.  We often exchanged back into WM with our other resorts because we knew we would be guaranteed to get a clean, well maintained unit.  WM just doesn't have the glitz and the extras.  Debby


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## ladycody (Dec 20, 2007)

Pleased to meetcha Debby....and happy to say I agree with you wholeheartedly.


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## LLW (Dec 25, 2007)

Debbyd57 said:


> We just sold our WM credits (only because we were moving to the south and needed to liquidate some money quickly).  We also own FF/Wyndham points.  I have only stayed in one WM resort that wasn't nice.  It was Tahoe III.  FF is nice, but not Marriott nice and not much nicer than WM.   FF has the whirlpool tubs that WM doesn't have and it has nice heavy drapes instead of the blinds that let all the light in.   *It angers me to hear WM bashed like that. * We loved WM resorts and have stayed at most of them in the WA, CA, AZ, and OR areas.  Unlike Perry, our WM points were what we used and exchanged with our other resorts.  We often exchanged back into WM with our other resorts because we knew we would be guaranteed to get a clean, well maintained unit.  WM just doesn't have the glitz and the extras.  Debby




Debby:

I have stayed at 20 WMs, and have also never met a WM resort that is not nice - even Surfside which most say is not up to WM standard. The only WM that I don't like and am not planning to return to is the WM unit at Fairfield Dolphin's Cove.  

My memory is not what it used to be, but I remember Perry giving a 100% WM resort a rating of 10 one time. Perry is very purposeful in his comments. I don't know why he has been bashing WM in the recent past. Maybe some of the WMs he has ended up staying at are not up to Marriott standard, but we have to remember Marriott is much more expensive than WM in both purchase price and maintenance fee. In addition, using his method of exchanging into Marriott's, it costs 18,000 WM credits for a Marriott 2 Bedroom vs 10,000 for a WM one. And we can exchange into a Marriott 2BR with 5,000 WM credits a year in advance, using another method.  He is rich and can afford it. Some of us can't.  

We also know that there are big differences between WM resorts, and even between different unit types at the same resort that have the same cost, and it pays to be smart and knowledgeable about WM. 

That's why what we learn on www.wmowners.com is so valuable for WM utilization. If you don't learn it, either because you don't use it enough or it is not a high enough priority, you get to use WM the inferior way. There are many ways to use WM. It's that simple. But using WM the inferior way is still better than average when compared to the average or better-than-average timeshare. Those of us who are more frequent users of WM resorts and wmowners.com, than Perry, know that.


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## PerryM (Dec 25, 2007)

LLW said:


> Debby:
> 
> I have stayed at 20 WMs, and have also never met a WM resort that is not nice - even Surfside which most say is not up to WM standard. The only WM that I don't like and am not planning to return to is the WM unit at Fairfield Dolphin's Cove.
> 
> ...



Well, just remember that my exchanges into Marriott units, either on Maui or in Park City may have cost 2 * 10,000 WM credits for Christmas, New Years, or 4th of July weeks but at 4.7 cents in MF that results in $940 at WM but the Marriott's MF is about the same in Park City and $1,300+ in Maui.  These are 2BR units too.  That's 1 II exchange into a studio and 1 II exchange into a 1BR.  Marriott merges the units into a 2BR.  Just try to exchange into a 2BR any other way - it's very hard at holiday times and >59-days out.

I'm not bashing WM units - they are what they are - cheap plywood construction for the most part and Marriotts are generally steel and concrete like the Marriott MountainSide I'm at this very minute watching the folks going up PayDay lift, the main lift at Park City.

I just think that WM is a fantastic way to exchange into the II system and gives you probably the most bang for the buck with unbelievable flexibility.

However, some WM condos located in Wyndham resorts are just as nice as Marriotts - Ocean Walk is one we love to use and rent.  There are a few others that are great too.

Basically we use WM to exchange in II and rent out for cash.  I occupy them basically as a last resort - and there's nothing wrong with that - better than a Motel 6, for a little more.


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## LLW (Dec 25, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Well, just remember that my exchanges into Marriott units, either on Maui or in Park City may have cost 2 * 10,000 WM credits for Christmas, New Years, or 4th of July weeks but at 4.7 cents in MF that results in $940 at WM but the Marriott's MF is about the same in Park City and $1,300+ in Maui.  These are 2BR units too.  That's 1 II exchange into a studio and 1 II exchange into a 1BR.  Marriott merges the units into a 2BR.  Just try to exchange into a 2BR any other way - it's very hard at holiday times and >59-days out.
> 
> I'm not bashing WM units - they are what they are - cheap plywood construction for the most part and Marriotts are generally steel and concrete like the Marriott MountainSide I'm at this very minute watching the folks going up PayDay lift, the main lift at Park City.
> 
> ...




I agree that WM is a fantastic way to exchange - I just came back from Marriott's Marbella Beach in Spain, one of the top TUG-rated resorts in the world, having booked it with 5,000 WM credits a year in advance! It was not Christmas, but I actually don't like crowds. The Christmas decorations were nice.  

I don't ski, so I wouldn't like Park City either.  Also, I was in an Ocean Walk penthouse in September, but I actually think that the WM Seaside penthouses are nicer. Of course, the fact that they allow smoking at Ocean Walk in WM units (there was a very strong cigarette smell in our unit when we got there) doesn't help either. But basically, it's different strokes for different people!


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## PerryM (Dec 26, 2007)

LLW said:


> I agree that WM is a fantastic way to exchange - I just came back from Marriott's Marbella Beach in Spain, one of the top TUG-rated resorts in the world, having booked it with 5,000 WM credits a year in advance! It was not Christmas, but I actually don't like crowds. The Christmas decorations were nice.
> 
> I don't ski, so I wouldn't like Park City either.  Also, I was in an Ocean Walk penthouse in September, but I actually think that the WM Seaside penthouses are nicer. Of course, the fact that they allow smoking at Ocean Walk in WM units (there was a very strong cigarette smell in our unit when we got there) doesn't help either. But basically, it's different strokes for different people!



If I'm not mistaken ALL Marriott properties are now smoke free.  I just stayed at a Courtyard in Chicago and the difference was just fantastic.  Last time I was there it had the dull smell of stale cigarettes.  Now the place smelled great - just pine decorations for Christmas and coffee smells.


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## Judy (Dec 26, 2007)

LLW said:


> And we can exchange into a Marriott 2BR with 5,000 WM credits a year in advance, using another method.


Are you talking about the method of asking Worldmark to make a 5,000 credit deposit into II for you and then gambling that the unit Worldmark picks to deposit for you will have the  trading power and quality rating to exchange for something you want?

If so, what percentage of the time does this method work out well for you and how often do you find yourself with a dog deposit?  What do you do with the dogs?

If not, would you consider sharing your method?


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## roadsister (Dec 26, 2007)

Judy,

If you can travel off season you can get some great deals.  A lot of the time getting the wonderful resorts like Av. Four Seasons or Marriotts occur during off season, hurricane season (for the east coast).  
1. One example is I exchange into the Marriott in Palm Springs, 2 bedroom, 1700 square feet BUT it was in the middle of summer - HOT!  
2. Another was I exchange into the Marriott Grand Residence in Tahoe BUT it was mud season for ski places - after snow but before warm temps.  
3. Another was a RCI deposit of a Mariner Village blue 1 bedroom unit for Manhattan Club for May, 2008...off season for those with families or having only specific times to travel, usually around school schedules.
4. One more example is a Galena blue unit (one of the units some refer to as a DOG exchanged for Grand Mayan SJDC 2 bedroom for 6/14/08 BUT....it is hot at that time AND this was a new resort opening so there was a lot of units in a bulk deposit by the resort.

As you can see some of the deposits I have received WERE dogs but I got good results.  You have to keep constatnly checking for trades....I think if you ask people what their deposit was, what they traded for AND the dates the trade is, and how far in advance they got the trade you will see what I am saying.

That being said, if you don't care much about the weather but are looking at the destination you can get some great deals.

5. You can also book a unit in WM and then 59 days for II or 45 days for RCI out look for a flexchange and then cancel your WM reservation before the 30 day cancellation period...many people do this to get a trade during a good time season-wise.


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## kewanee (Dec 27, 2007)

PerryM said:


> You may not believe this but the easiest weeks to get in II are hot holiday weeks.  You need to learn why this is true and take advantage of it.
> 
> .....
> 8) I just love the 59-day II window and just 4,000 WM credits will snag ANY size unit in the II inventory that WM can see
> ...



Do you still get charged only 4000 WM credits if your ongoing search was 3 years in advance?  I thought the search itself had to be started in the 59 day window?  Thanks.


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## PerryM (Dec 27, 2007)

kewanee said:


> Do you still get charged only 4000 WM credits if your ongoing search was 3 years in advance?  I thought the search itself had to be started in the 59 day window?  Thanks.



Searches matched outside the 59 day window are charged their normal rates, e.g. 2BR Red week is 10,000 WM credits.

However, once the search enters the 59-day window they are ALL charged 4,000 WM credits no matter the size or season.  II does this automatically.

Sadly, Wyndham's IRIS system doesn't allow you to view individual exchange transactions so you must call and verify your exchanges.  Double check for the 59-day 4k exchanges to make sure II and Wyndham haven't screwed up.

I'm assuming that Wyndham will grab the oldest 4k credits but I have no way to double check on that.  Maybe I should go further and just have them do an audit every 6 months and maybe the auditor will check this.  Worth a try.

I believe this is a manual procedure and that IRIS is not involved - a Wyndham employee does it.


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## FLYNZ4 (Dec 27, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I'm assuming that Wyndham will grab the oldest 4k credits but I have no way to double check on that.


Perry,

I believe that when WM exchange services takes the 4000 credits, that the oldest credits that are "available" in your account will be used.    There could be older credits that are already assigned to reservations... but those credits would not be used for the exchange as far as I can tell.

/Jim


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## LLW (Dec 28, 2007)

Judy said:


> Are you talking about the method of asking Worldmark to make a 5,000 credit deposit into II for you and then gambling that the unit Worldmark picks to deposit for you will have the  trading power and quality rating to exchange for something you want?
> 
> If so, what percentage of the time does this method work out well for you and how often do you find yourself with a dog deposit?  What do you do with the dogs?
> 
> If not, would you consider sharing your method?



A WM dog will still get some nice exchanges for you, if, as roadsister said, you can travel off season. For example, currently I have a dog of the dogs (blue Galena studio limited kitchen 4000 credits) that is seeing 2BR Marriotts such as Marriott's Grande Ocean Resort and Marriott's Marbella Beach for November and December 08 and January 09. I probably get a dog about 40% of the time, but when I get one, I just hold on to it and only use it when I see something good, or use it for Flexchange, which normally cost 4000 credits anyway.

As a result, Deposit First has worked out well for me 100% of the time, no matter what week I get as a deposit. I have never paid full credits for an exchange, and all my exchanges have been good.


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## PA- (Dec 30, 2007)

LLW said:


> A WM dog will still get some nice exchanges for you, if, as roadsister said, you can travel off season. For example, currently I have a dog of the dogs (blue Galena studio limited kitchen 4000 credits) that is seeing 2BR Marriotts such as Marriott's Grande Ocean Resort and Marriott's Marbella Beach for November and December 08 and January 09. I probably get a dog about 40% of the time, but when I get one, I just hold on to it and only use it when I see something good, or use it for Flexchange, which normally cost 4000 credits anyway.
> 
> As a result, Deposit First has worked out well for me 100% of the time, no matter what week I get as a deposit. I have never paid full credits for an exchange, and all my exchanges have been good.



I once exchanged a Galena studio unit I had for a 2bedroom at Worldmark Wolf Creek for Christmas week, and I did it several months before checkin, not during flexchange.  It was on II, and they aren't supposed to give 2bedrooms for studios, so I don't know why it showed up.  Wolf Creek is a ski resort, so that was a really desirable week.  I'm actually at Worldmark Midway right now, and we got a lot of snow today, with clear weather forecast for the next few days, so I'm looking forward to some great conditions at Park City and the Canyons over the next few days.


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## rocketraj (Feb 13, 2008)

PerryM said:


> You may not believe this but the easiest weeks to get in II are hot holiday weeks.  You need to learn why this is true and take advantage of it.
> 
> Here is how I use WM to avoid WM:
> 
> ...


i am new to wyndham credits and am confused about what you said that for 10,000 credits it takes much more to book a 2br at wyndham resort. according to the following tug advice page a 12,000 credits is good for 3br peak season. am i not reading it right?

http://www.tug2.net/advice/worldmark.htm


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## PA- (Feb 13, 2008)

Wyndham has 2 brands of timeshares.  The old Fairfield Fairshare Plus  and Worldmark.  This thread has discussed Worldmark.  Methinks you are probably thinking Fairfield, which requires around 154,000 or more points for a 2bedroom during red season.


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## Judy (Feb 14, 2008)

rocketraj said:


> i am new to wyndham credits and am confused about what you said that for 10,000 credits it takes much more to book a 2br at wyndham resort. according to the following tug advice page a 12,000 credits is good for 3br peak season. am i not reading it right?
> 
> http://www.tug2.net/advice/worldmark.htm



In many Worldmark resorts, one week in a two-bedroom red season can be booked for 10,000 credits. Lately Wyndham has been building new resorts for the Worldmark system that cost many more credits than that. For example, West Yellowstone (two-bedroom red week 13,500 credits) and San Diego (one-bedroom red week 15,000 credits)


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## Aptman (Feb 14, 2008)

How much time do you all spend on hold calling up and getting these exchanges?  How much of this can be done online without having to wait?

I just went through some HGVC things and spent huge amounts of time on hold - sometimes 20 minutes at a time - which is thoroughly infuriating and a disincentive to doing this, especially since you're not guaranteed to get results each time you call in.

Are there easy ways to do this, because I've thought of buying into WM as well.


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## PA- (Feb 14, 2008)

Aptman said:


> How much time do you all spend on hold calling up and getting these exchanges?  How much of this can be done online without having to wait?
> 
> I just went through some HGVC things and spent huge amounts of time on hold - sometimes 20 minutes at a time - which is thoroughly infuriating and a disincentive to doing this, especially since you're not guaranteed to get results each time you call in.
> 
> Are there easy ways to do this, because I've thought of buying into WM as well.



Worldmark has an excellent on-line reservation system.  The only time it's necessary to call in is if you're putting together a multi-resort stay in which the individual reservations wouldn't meet the requirement of a 7 day stay during red season.

Hold times have been very long during some periods (like when training Fairfield reps to take Worldmark calls or whatever), but generally no more than a few minutes I think.  I don't call in much, maybe 3 or 4 times a year.  Mostly on-line.


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## LLW (Feb 14, 2008)

Aptman said:


> How much time do you all spend on hold calling up and getting these exchanges?  How much of this can be done online without having to wait?
> 
> I just went through some HGVC things and spent huge amounts of time on hold - sometimes 20 minutes at a time - which is thoroughly infuriating and a disincentive to doing this, especially since you're not guaranteed to get results each time you call in.
> 
> Are there easy ways to do this, because I've thought of buying into WM as well.



As far as exchanges:

With II, you can do reservations all on line - Request First or Deposit First. Although with Deposit First you first have to call WM to make the deposit. After that you can book all on line.

Cancellations have to be done by phone. 

I probably haven't called II for a couple of years.

With RCI, you can book on line only if you have a deposit with them. Otherwise, you have to call. I am not an RCI member, so I don't know what the hold time is like.


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## Judy (Feb 15, 2008)

Aptman said:


> How much time do you all spend on hold calling up and getting these exchanges?  How much of this can be done online without having to wait?


If by "exchanges" you meant through II and RCI, then LLW answered your question.  If however, you were asking about exchanges within Worldmark:  Worldmark owners own a portion of the entire club. We don't own a "home" resort like Wyndham/Fairfield and some others.  We can book directly into any Worldmark resort.  There is no need to exchange within Worldmark.


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