# Insurance for foreign travel



## Passepartout

Right at the outset, i don't know how this will work out. I'll post as it does.

DW and I have been in Germany for a week. We flew in on United from Chicago. No broken guitars or dead dogs. We stayed in Munich 4 days, saw the sights, drank some biers, went to 'Mad King Ludwig's' Neuschwanstein castle. Climbing up to it, I became winded. Going down we were caught in.a summer, monsoon-like rain deluge. We had the sense to be inside a horse drawn carriage.

Next day, we went by train to the city of Ulm, where in 1966-68, I was stationed in the US Army. I.haven't been back since, and saw that 50 years even.makes a difference in a medieval city. Still some shortness of breath.

Next day to Nuremburg, leisurely visit the old parts and huge parade grounds where some world changing speeches transpired. We boarded AMAWaterways AMADANTE for Luxembourg.

I still couldn't keep up and was convinced to 'Go get a scan' in Wurzburg at 'Germany's best hospital - even if it was built in 1520. Long story short(er) the ER triage doc took me right to a cardiologist who said, "You're not leaving- that will be 33 Euros".

This about 4pm Saturday. The ship would only be there another half hour. The tour manager had accompanied us until English speaking docs took over, then took my wife to the shop to pack for both of us and depart the ship. The AMA local agent took her and our bags to a hotel near the hospita!. Meanwhile, they located a pacemaker, assembled a team and prepped me for surgery!

Overnight, AMA had alerted Global Alert (Insurance), and when I awoke, with new pacemaker, I had a shief of papers to fill out, and the doc and to put already reserved flight info.

So, that's where it stands now. Ins. Is in direct with the hospital and cruise line for transport home.

Bottom line: you don't know when your good health will come crashing down. But you can insure that when it does (and eventually will for everyone) it doesn't take your assets with it. We have more timeshare trips booked, and another European trip coming up.

I'll update this as it develops.

Jim


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## WinniWoman

Passepartout said:


> Right at the outset, i don't know how this will work out. I'll post as it does.
> 
> DW and I have been in Germany for a week. We flew in on United from Chicago. No broken guitars or dead dogs. We stayed in Munich 4 days, saw the sights, drank some biers, went to 'Mad King Ludwig's' Neuschwanstein castle. Climbing up to it, I became winded. Going down we were caught in.a summer, monsoon-like rain deluge. We be sense to be inside a horse drawn carriage.
> 
> Next day, we went by train to the city of Ulm, where in 1966-68, I was stationed in the US Army. I.haven't been back since, and saw that 50 years even.makes a difference in a medieval city. Still some shortness of breath.
> 
> Next day to Nuremburg, leisurely visit the old parts and huge parade grounds where some world changing speeches transpired. We boarded AMAWaterways AMADANTE for Luxembourg.
> 
> I still couldn't keep up and was convinced to 'Go get a scan' in Wurzburg at 'Germany's best hospital - even if it was built in 1520. Long story short(er) the ER triage doc took me right to a cardiologist who said, "You're not leaving- that will be 33 Euros".
> 
> This about 4pm Saturday. The ship would only be there another half hour. The tour manager had accompanied us until English speaking docs took over, then took my wife to the shop to pack for both of us and depart the ship. The AMA local agent took her and our bags to a hotel near the hospita!. Meanwhile, they located a pacemaker, assembled a team and prepped me for surgery!
> 
> Overnight, AKA had alerted Global Alert (Insurance), and when I awoke, with new pacemaker, I had a shief of papers to fill out, and the doc and to put already reserved flight info.
> 
> So, that's where it stands now. Ins. Is in direct with the hospital and cruise line for transport home.
> 
> Bottom line: you don't know when your good health will come crashing down. But you can insure that when it does (and eventually will for everyone) it doesn't take your assets with it. We have more timeshare trips booked, and another European trip coming up.
> 
> I'll update this as it develops.
> 
> Jim



Wow, Jim! So sorry this happened to you! As you said- just when you least expect it! And- right- this is why you must have good travel and health insurance. Safe trip back!

PS Maybe you should take it easy for awhile instead of jumping to the next trip overseas.


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## klpca

Jim - sorry that this happened to you. I hope that you are feeling better now. It's scary when it hits. We did an overnight at the ICU on the Big Island - they ruled out stent failure and diagnosed a reaction to meds so we were able to stay - but the vacation was over. 

Good idea to share your experience with the insurance. Thank goodness you had it.


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## x3 skier

Best wishes for a sound recovery.  

German Medical Staff and Hospitals are excellent.  My wife came down with Pneumonia enroute to Bonn in 2004.  She was treated in the ICU because that had the largest English speaking staff.  Excellent care and a full recovery after a three day stay. Insurance covered everything including a 500€ payment out of pocket to “ransom” my wife. 

Cheers


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## CalGalTraveler

Hope you will be on your feet soon for your next travel adventure.  Sorry to hear about your mishap.

Thanks for sharing your story. A good wake-up call.

Can you share some details as to the brand of insurance you had and what kind of coverage? Did they cover your medical evacuation back to the U.S.?

My DH and I need to be more vigilant about health and the travel insurance options out there are confusing.

I believe we would be covered by Kaiser if it was in the U.S. Have been to several ERs in the U.S. for various family maladies and Kaiser always picked up the bill with no questions asked.  International not covered so need to consider options.


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## Passepartout

Thanks all. There are still a lot of moving parts. How long they will keep me? whether we can use original long haul flight even if missing a flight to catch it? Who pays what? There is excellent English speaking staff, and the hospital is a former convent and palace on beautiful grounds


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## MULTIZ321

Passepartout said:


> Thanks all. There are still a lot of moving parts. How long they will keep me? whether we can use original long haul flight even if missing a flight to catch it? Who pays what? There is excellent English speaking staff, and the hospital is a former convent and palace on beautiful grounds


Best Wishes for a speedy recovery and good luck going through the insurance hoops.

Warm regards,

Richard


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## Passepartout

CalGalTraveler said:


> Can you share some details as to the brand of insurance you had and what kind of coverage? Did they cover your medical evacuation back to the U.S.?



Brand is in OP. We don't know the rest. Stay tuned.


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## Luanne

Jim, so sorry this happened. Thank goodness you have had access to good medical care.  Take care of yourself.


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## VacationForever

All the best to a speedy recovery.  I thought you have GeoBlue Trekker and MedJet, is this Global Alert insurance in addition to these 2 or instead of these 2?


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## Passepartout

VacationForever said:


> All the best to a speedy recovery.  I thought you have GeoBlue Trekker and MedJet, is this Global Alert insurance in addition to these 2 or instead of these 2?


Hello, all-- Jim's DW here to answer a few questions.  This will be our third travel insurance claim.  First was last minute cancellation due to my medical issues (100% recovery).  Second was loss due to flight cancellation (full recovery as well).  Both claims were made after the trip, and neither situation required carrier assistance (just send the check, please).  I buy our insurance at squaremouth.com.  I have no loyalty to any one carrier.  They are all underwritten by the same 3 companies, and the policy and carrier names seem to be always changing.  The coverages are all similar (and easy to compare) but curiously the prices vary dramatically.   Square mouth has a zero complaint policy.  Now we are finding out what the carrier does beside sending a check.  Our cruise manager while moving me off the boat to a hotel called the carrier and started the claim so I would have a claim number for expedited service.  By this morning Jim had paperwork to fill  out indicating that a company named On Call was already working with the hospital.  Ama also called to verify that had happened (all on a Sunday).  They will both follow the case and get us home when Jim can travel.  The policy I bought this time is Global Alert.  More later.
Paula


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## WinniWoman

Passepartout said:


> Hello, all-- Jim's DW here to answer a few questions.  This will be our third travel insurance claim.  First was last minute cancellation due to my medical issues (100% recovery).  Second was loss due to flight cancellation (full recovery as well).  Both claims were made after the trip, and neither situation required carrier assistance (just send the check, please).  I buy our insurance at squaremouth.com.  I have no loyalty to any one carrier.  They are all underwritten by the same 3 companies, and the policy and carrier names seem to be always changing.  The coverages are all similar (and easy to compare) but curiously the prices vary dramatically.   Square mouth has a zero complaint policy.  Now we are finding out what the carrier does beside sending a check.  Our cruise manager while moving me off the boat to a hotel called the carrier and started the claim so I would have a claim number for expedited service.  By this morning Jim had paperwork to fill  out indicating that a company named On Call was already working with the hospital.  Ama also called to verify that had happened (all on a Sunday).  They will both follow the case and get us home when Jim can travel.  The policy I bought this time is Global Alert.  More later.
> Paula




Thanks for the info., Paula! And nice to meet you here on TUG!


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## uop1497

I hope you will have a very quick recovery .


Passepartout said:


> Hello, all-- Jim's DW here to answer a few questions.  This will be our third travel insurance claim.  First was last minute cancellation due to my medical issues (100% recovery).  Second was loss due to flight cancellation (full recovery as well).  Both claims were made after the trip, and neither situation required carrier assistance (just send the check, please).  I buy our insurance at squaremouth.com.  I have no loyalty to any one carrier.  They are all underwritten by the same 3 companies, and the policy and carrier names seem to be always changing.  The coverages are all similar (and easy to compare) but curiously the prices vary dramatically.   Square mouth has a zero complaint policy.  Now we are finding out what the carrier does beside sending a check.  Our cruise manager while moving me off the boat to a hotel called the carrier and started the claim so I would have a claim number for expedited service.  By this morning Jim had paperwork to fill  out indicating that a company named On Call was already working with the hospital.  Ama also called to verify that had happened (all on a Sunday).  They will both follow the case and get us home when Jim can travel.  The policy I bought this time is Global Alert.  More later.
> Paula



I hope Jim will have a very quick recovery . 

Thanks for information about travel insurance. If you do not mind, I like to know if you buy the insurance per trip .
I checked squaremouth.com and it show the whole list of travel company name, not sure which one to select. I do not see Global Alert company in the search list.


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## silentg

Sorry this happened on your trip Jim. We are going to France in October, bought travel insurance and we are going on the AMA Lyra. Going with some other TUG members. Looking forward to it. You are right to advise all to get travel insurance, you never know what can happen.
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
Silentg


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## Passepartout

More... Rough night Sunday. Little sleep. Expected near 90 today and no a/c. Cardiologist came in pronounced that I have pneumonia. They are experienced at dealing with these things for people around the world - and importantly -getting them on airplanes. Hospital admin is in touch w/travel insurance for direct payment. They put me in a semi private deluxe room, then said for the next few days it'll be 78 € a day. We will submit English invoice to our Advantage carrier.

I am on full time O2 , so I got an extension hose so I can roam in the room a little. So far my best clue is that their pneumonia plan is 5 days. I am swelled up like a grape- or maybe blowing up a rubber glove.  They can't just tank me up on water pills because that would flush electrolytes.

More as it happens.

Jim


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## Passepartout

uop1497 said:


> I hope you will have a very quick recovery .
> 
> 
> I hope Jim will have a very quick recovery .
> 
> Thanks for information about travel insurance. If you do not mind, I like to know if you buy the insurance per trip .
> I checked squaremouth.com and it show the whole list of travel company name, not sure which one to select. I do not see Global Alert company in the search list.



Yes, I buy by the trip.  I use the squaremouth compare utility to select the policy with the coverage I want at the best price.
Paula


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## BagsArePacked

Dear Jim and Paula,
Wishing you much rest and a full recovery. A very difficult situation to be in but you both are handling it so well.  Thank you for sharing so that we may all benefit.  You are such a valued member here on Tug and I appreciate your posts. 

With Aloha 
Christine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Passepartout

More.... Today, 7/23 I attempted a shower and ended up staggering back to the bed, naked, soaped and wet, to shove the O2 into my nose before I went back. Paula came in and soon the hospital admin came in, we did the papers for them to be paid by insurance directly. They also said that mine is a deluxe room w/extra snacks & tea. And would be 78€ a day. I could go to a ward, but they couldn't show us one, so I'm staying.

By and by the US trained (LA's Cedars Sinai) head of Cardio came in and said that I have congestive heart failure (chf), and that I will be here at least another week before I can fly. Remember that shower episode at the top of this thread? Well by this afternoon, I took off the O2 and my breathing is the best since leaving home. They have me an IV diuretic, and cut my water intake to 1.5 l- it will be 90 by Wed. He upped water to 2 full liters!!! Did I mention the part about no a/c? I see some changes in life going forward.

Anyway we hope to talk to insurance's  travel coordinators. To get a feel for what to expect. We are covered up to $1/4 m. So it ought to cover lie down business class and maybe a nurse.

But first, I have to get well enough to be released to fly. Airplanes are only pressurized to 8,000ish feet, so maybe a concentrator can be rented or provided. Or not needed in a week.

Thats today's update. More as something happens.

Jim


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## wilma

Sorry this is happening to you away from home. Rest up and get better!


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## WinniWoman

Passepartout said:


> More.... Today, 7/23 I attempted a shower and ended up staggering back to the bed, naked, soaked and wet, to shove the O2 into my nose before I went back. Paula came in and soon the hospital admin came in, we did the papers for them to be paid by insurance directly. They also said that mine is a deluxe room w/extra snacks & tea. And would be 78€ a day. I could go to a ward, but they couldn't show us one, so I'm staying.
> 
> By and by the US trained (LA's Cedars Sinai) head of Cardio came in and said that I have congestive heart failure (chf), and that I will be here at least another week before I can fly. Remember that shower episode at the top of this thread? Well by this afternoon, I took off the O2 and my breathing is the best since leaving home. They have me an IV diuretic, and cut my water intake to 1.5 l- it will be 90 by Wed. He upped water to 2 full liters!!! Did I mention the part about no a/c? I see some changes in life going forward.
> 
> Anyway we hope to talk to insurance's  travel coordinators. To get a feel for what to expect. We are covered up to $1/4 m. So it ought to cover lie down business class and maybe a nurse.
> 
> But first, I have to get well enough to be released to fly. Airplanes are only pressurized to 8,000ish feet, so maybe a concentrator can be rented or provided. Or not needed in a week.
> 
> Thats today's update. More as something happens.
> 
> Jim



Holy cow, Jim! What a fiasco for you (and Paula) to have to go through! So sorry! This is so crazy but I guess it shows how fragile a person's health can be! One thing after another suddenly. Yikes! I hope you get well enough soon to get back to the USA, but thankfully it sounds like you are getting excellent care in Germany for now. 

Keep us posted.


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## VacationForever

Jim, hope you feel better soon.  Do you have both CHF and pneumonia?  Is the lack of a/c where you are due to pneumonia?


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## Passepartout

VacationForever said:


> Jim, hope you feel better soon.  Do you have both CHF and pneumonia?  Is the lack of a/c where you are due to pneumonia?


Yep. Both. But my pneumonia has nothing to do with the hospital 's not having air conditioning. The palace/convent that became this place was started in 1520. It generally is not needed, but right now Europe is in a heat wave. Near 90 expected.


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## VacationForever

Passepartout said:


> Yep. Both. But my pneumonia has nothing to do with the hospital 's not having air conditioning. The palace/convent that became this place was started in 1520. It generally is not needed, but right now Europe is in a heat wave. Near 90 expected.


Ah.  Hang in there and get better soon!


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## billymach4

Paula, Jim,

I know you both have been looking forward to this trip now for months. Sorry to hear this happened smack in the middle of your River Cruise. 
Sounds like you are in good hands in Germany. 

All I wish is for a Speedy Recovery for you Jim. Also for a safe trip back to Idaho!

Bill


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## Passepartout

*The whole reason for posting all this is as a cautionary tale* of what CAN happen when traveling, along with accidents and unexpected occurances. We, along with lots of TUGgers are just on Medicare - that doesn't cover medical outside the US. My supplement SAYS they will ' cover up to what Medicare covers as long as you provide itemized invoice in English.' Great! Just try to get that translation done across medications and procedures with different names.

This care I am getting would be entirely at my expense without travel medical insurance. For this trip, it was about $720, for two, to cover $14,000 of trip cost. Then you have to dig for the medical and evacuation benefits. When done, they may pay many hundreds of thousands.

When planning a trip, and buying insirance, it's about more than the low cost.

Jim


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## philemer

Rest up my friend. Sorry to hear about this experience. We also buy travel ins when taking trips outside the US. We use insuremytrip.com  So happy you have it. Give Paula a hug from us.

Phil/Sue

PS I lived in Wurzburg from 1962>1964. If you need a translator I know a guy who lives there.


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## Passepartout

philemer said:


> Rest up my friend. Sorry to hear about this experience. We also buy travel ins when taking trips outside the US. We use insuremytrip.com  So happy you have it. Give Paula a hug from us.
> 
> Phil/Sue
> 
> PS I lived in Wurzburg from 1962>1964. If you need a translator I know a guy who lives there.


I have met a lot of former GIs here. And my roomie is a retired doc from Kitzington just upriver. He remembers well when whole units here (looking for the evil empire- times change!?!) Shipped out to Ft Bragg and Viet Nam and the folks never saw their friends and neighbors again. I paid a revisit to where I was stationed in Ulm. Not far away.


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## x3 skier

Jim, my wife flew with a portable Inogen O2 concentrator.  Worked fine for her on flights of up to 6 hours on two sets of batteries.  I’m sure Biz Class has a power outlet so a longer flight home (including milling around time to/from/in terminals, customs etc, etc) can be handled. 

I doubt your German expenses will be in the 100000€+ level.  Total for my wife’s hosipital stay of three or four days for pneumonia in Bonn ICU were around $5000 total IIRC, covered by my health insurance.  Of course the heart complications will add up but not until you get home 

Best wishes for a safe trip home and recovery. 

Cheers


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## Glynda

Whoa Jim and Paula!  What an experience!  So sorry you missed the rest of your river cruise but thankful that you landed in good hands. If this had to happen, at least it happened in a medically advanced country even if there is no A/C in the old building.  I always go home from my travels being thankful for American plumbing and heat and air! Thanks for the reminder of how important travel insurance is.  Need to check on our upcoming trip. I know we have some but not sure that it extends beyond the cruise portion of our trip.  Hope all goes well and you'll get to go home soon.


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## Passepartout

Maybe we should call this Jim 's foreign health fiasco or something. Today, I started with a heart CT scan to be followed by a heart ultrasound. I am on diuretics and there was a small incident on the CT cradle you lay on. Don't ask. 

Meanwhile, Paula is working the insurance side. These companies are all separate, and their claims are handled by other 3rd party companies. For instance as soon as I left the AMA ship their claims outfit was notified, a claim number was assigned. But we had not bought travel insurance from them. Remember, we bought from squaremouth.com, a policy issues by Global Alert. So after hearing from some of these over the last 4 days, it's apparent that there is a communication kerfuffle. She tells me that now she has spoken with a nurse who understands the diagnosis and treatment, and agreed that a nurse accompaniment all the way home is appropriate. Our policy limits are $250,000 medical and $250,000 evacuation. We will make a dent in this, I think.

More as it develops

Jim


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## Passepartout

x3 skier said:


> Jim, my wife flew with a portable Inogen O2 concentrator.  Worked fine for her on flights of up to 6 hours on two sets of batteries.  I’m sure Biz Class has a power outlet so a longer flight home (including milling around time to/from/in terminals, customs etc, etc) can be handled.
> 
> I doubt your German expenses will be in the 100000€+ level.  Total for my wife’s hosipital stay of three or four days for pneumonia in Bonn ICU were around $5000 total IIRC, covered by my health insurance.  Of course the heart complications will add up but not until you get home
> 
> Best wishes for a safe trip home and recovery.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks. This is good information. I had been concerned about getting a concentrator that would only work on 230v European power. Now, it seems like I may have a nurse with who would be equipped.

I was asked by my retired German doctor room mate (here for a stent) if I came here to save money? I said it was just luck. He told me that this is the pre-eminent heart teaching center in Germany. The head is my doc, all his underlings call him, "The Professor" and he has American patients who fly to Europe every couple years for a checkup. He trained at LA's Cedars Sinai hospital.


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## Glynda

We had a retired couple who rented our rental home for a month. They told us what had happened to them when they traveled to Israel, which was top on their bucket lists, more than a year after the wife had open heart surgery. Once there, she experienced some problems and was taken to one hospital only to be transported to the top one in the country. The doctors told the husband that his wife was in critical condition and needed a difficult open heart surgery with only a small chance of success. He said that if there was anyone who would want to see her before she passed away, the husband should send for them immediately. Her children, spouses and grandchildren were flown to Israel. On Medicare, they had no insurance for foreign travel and her husband was told that he must pay up front, no credit cards, no checks. A cash money transfer was the only thing they would accept. And there was little time if she was to survive. I can't remember the exact amount we were told, but it was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars initially with more to come. He came up with it and the surgery was successful but she had a long rehab in front her and they would not let her travel home. She remained in Israel for a month or longer. Her husband had to rent an apartment for himself. When the time came that she could return, they were told that a doctor must accompany her. They had to fly doctor and patient in first class and reserve first class for the doctor's return. Her husband sat back in economy. I don't know many people who could come up with the cash in a matter of hours plus pay for the long recovery and stay.  

I'm so glad that you have insurance, Jim, and I hope that the companies work all out to your benefit without squabbling.


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## Passepartout

Boy, Glenda, you really know how to get a fella's attention. We are holding our fingers crossed, but the hits just keep coming. 

more news..... The head of cardio in this prestigious hospital was just here, and said that significant calcium was found by  CT earlier today. I have echocardiogram set for tomorrow, and he said that he would not OK travel until a possible balloon, and/or stent, and/or bypass clears the plaque. That would be Friday if I can get rid of 4 ltrs of water. I'm still pretty puffy. It's hard at over 90 not to reach for water!

Today is almost over, the hospital is quiet. Paula is with me. She has a nearby hotel, but it is over $1000 a week, and she is starting to run out of her prescriptions.

As Gilda Radner said, " It's always SOMETHING! "


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## VacationForever

Passepartout said:


> Boy, Glenda, you really know how to get a fella's attention. We are holding our fingers crossed, but the hits just keep coming.
> 
> more news..... The head of cardio in this prestigious hospital was just here, and said that significant calcium was found by  CT earlier today. I have echocardiogram set for tomorrow, and he said that he would not OK travel until a possible balloon, and/or stent, and/or bypass clears the plaque. That would be Friday if I can get rid of 4 ltrs of water. I'm still pretty puffy. It's hard at over 90 not to reach for water!
> 
> Today is almost over, the hospital is quiet. Paula is with me. She has a nearby hotel, but it is over $1000 a week, and she is starting to run out of her prescriptions.
> 
> As Gilda Radner said, " It's always SOMETHING! "


Oh dear. Does travel insurance also cover your wife's hotel stay?  It is small money but I am just wondering.  Getting her prescription is going to be challenging but I can imagine with this day and age she can get her doctor to send over her prescription order over to Germany, after finding out from a local pharmacy what sort of paperwork it would need from her doctor.

We were given a tour of a local brand new hospital recently and we were very impressed that every room was setup as a 1-person room with a single sofabed in one corner, intended for a family or friend to sleep in the same room.


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## Elli

Passepartout said:


> Boy, Glenda, you really know how to get a fella's attention. We are holding our fingers crossed, but the hits just keep coming.
> 
> more news..... The head of cardio in this prestigious hospital was just here, and said that significant calcium was found by  CT earlier today. I have echocardiogram set for tomorrow, and he said that he would not OK travel until a possible balloon, and/or stent, and/or bypass clears the plaque. That would be Friday if I can get rid of 4 ltrs of water. I'm still pretty puffy. It's hard at over 90 not to reach for water!
> 
> Today is almost over, the hospital is quiet. Paula is with me. She has a nearby hotel, but it is over $1000 a week, and she is starting to run out of her prescriptions.
> 
> As Gilda Radner said, " It's always SOMETHING! "


So sorry to hear about your health problems, Jim, but it looks like you are in good hands.  Too bad that Germany is suffering through a heat wave with high temps unusual for Germany.  Wishing you a speedy recovery, and a safe trip home for you and Paula.


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## Passepartout

VacationForever said:


> Oh dear. Does travel insurance also cover your wife's hotel stay?  It is small money but I am just wondering.  Getting her prescription is going to be challenging but I can imagine with this day and age she can get her doctor to send over her prescription order over to Germany, after finding out from a local pharmacy what sort of paperwork it would need from her doctor.
> 
> We were given a tour of a local brand new hospital recently and we were very impressed that every room was setup as a 1-person room with a single sofabed in one corner, intended for a family or friend to sleep in the same room.


We expect the insurance to pay for her room. It may be by reimbursement after we get home. So far nobody has stepped up and committed. Her meds otoh may be more hassle. Most are common generics, but one, her oral chemo, is just new, and is very expensive. Like $400 per pill. The big Cahuna doc says they have it here. Stay tuned!


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## Laurie

Jim, I've been following this and you are in my thoughts. 

btw your comments about Curacao awhile back got me there earlier this year and I loved it, so thank you for that.



Glynda said:


> On Medicare, they had no insurance for foreign travel and her husband was told that he must pay up front, no credit cards, no checks.


As I understand it, Medicare Supplement plans do cover 80% of medical expenses during foreign travel, and that was a big reason we chose that route instead of Medicare Advantage. As-of-yet untested by us.


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## easyrider

Bummer Jim !!!  Good thing you caught the blockage before it broke loose. Get better !!!

Bill


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## Glynda

Passepartout said:


> Boy, Glenda, you really know how to get a fella's attention. We are holding our fingers crossed, but the hits just keep coming.
> 
> more news..... The head of cardio in this prestigious hospital was just here, and said that significant calcium was found by  CT earlier today. I have echocardiogram set for tomorrow, and he said that he would not OK travel until a possible balloon, and/or stent, and/or bypass clears the plaque. That would be Friday if I can get rid of 4 ltrs of water. I'm still pretty puffy. It's hard at over 90 not to reach for water!
> 
> Today is almost over, the hospital is quiet. Paula is with me. She has a nearby hotel, but it is over $1000 a week, and she is starting to run out of her prescriptions.
> 
> As Gilda Radner said, " It's always SOMETHING! "



I'm so sorry it keeps escalating!


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## philemer

Laurie said:


> ...............
> 
> As I understand it, Medicare Supplement plans do cover 80% of medical expenses during foreign travel, and that was a big reason we chose that route instead of Medicare Advantage. As-of-yet untested by us.



Not usually but will cover some emergency situations. Get your policy out and read all of it.  See https://www.medicareresources.org/blog/2015/07/21/a-medicare-enrollees-guide-to-travel-coverage/


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## Laurie

philemer said:


> Not usually but will cover some emergency situations. Get your policy out and read all of it.  See https://www.medicareresources.org/blog/2015/07/21/a-medicare-enrollees-guide-to-travel-coverage/


Phil, I just clicked on that link, which does state that yes, most Medigap plans (ie Medicare Supplement plans, the route we chose) do cover foreign travel, with $250 deductible, 20% coinsurance and $50,000 lifetime limit - which doesn't include everything - here's what it says:

*"So what are my options?*
"If you’re adding a Medigap plan to supplement your Original Medicare, six of the Medigap plan design options provide coverage for medical emergencies outside the United States. Plans C, D, F, G, M, and N cover medical emergencies while traveling, as long as medical care starts within 60 days of leaving the United States.

"Medigap plans are only available with no medical underwriting during your initial enrollment period (and very limited special enrollment periods), so it’s wise to plan ahead and choose Medigap coverage with international emergency benefits if you think you might travel during retirement.

"(Four older Medigap plans (E, H, I, and J) also provide coverage for emergencies outside the United States. They are no longer for sale, but enrollees who already have them can continue to use them.)

"With a Medigap plan that covers foreign travel, the patient pays a $250 deductible plus 20 percent coinsurance, and there’s a lifetime benefit maximum of $50,000.

"Some Medicare Advantage plans cover medical emergencies that arise during foreign travel. If you’re considering Medicare Advantage and are planning to travel outside the United States, check with the carrier to see if they cover emergency care outside the United States. Medigap plans cannot be used in conjunction with a Medicare Advantage plan."


----------



## maturesparrow

This is something new to me. I want to learn more about this. Thanks for sharing it to us!


----------



## MULTIZ321

Laurie said:


> Phil, I just clicked on that link, which does state that yes, most Medigap plans (ie Medicare Supplement plans, the route we chose) do cover foreign travel, with $250 deductible, 20% coinsurance and $50,000 lifetime limit - which doesn't include everything - here's what it says:
> 
> *"So what are my options?*
> "If you’re adding a Medigap plan to supplement your Original Medicare, six of the Medigap plan design options provide coverage for medical emergencies outside the United States. Plans C, D, F, G, M, and N cover medical emergencies while traveling, as long as medical care starts within 60 days of leaving the United States.
> 
> "Medigap plans are only available with no medical underwriting during your initial enrollment period (and very limited special enrollment periods), so it’s wise to plan ahead and choose Medigap coverage with international emergency benefits if you think you might travel during retirement.
> 
> "(Four older Medigap plans (E, H, I, and J) also provide coverage for emergencies outside the United States. They are no longer for sale, but enrollees who already have them can continue to use them.)
> 
> "With a Medigap plan that covers foreign travel, the patient pays a $250 deductible plus 20 percent coinsurance, and there’s a lifetime benefit maximum of $50,000.
> 
> "Some Medicare Advantage plans cover medical emergencies that arise during foreign travel. If you’re considering Medicare Advantage and are planning to travel outside the United States, check with the carrier to see if they cover emergency care outside the United States. Medigap plans cannot be used in conjunction with a Medicare Advantage plan."


I th


Laurie said:


> Phil, I just clicked on that link, which does state that yes, most Medigap plans (ie Medicare Supplement plans, the route we chose) do cover foreign travel, with $250 deductible, 20% coinsurance and $50,000 lifetime limit - which doesn't include everything - here's what it says:
> 
> *"So what are my options?*
> "If you’re adding a Medigap plan to supplement your Original Medicare, six of the Medigap plan design options provide coverage for medical emergencies outside the United States. Plans C, D, F, G, M, and N cover medical emergencies while traveling, as long as medical care starts within 60 days of leaving the United States.
> 
> "Medigap plans are only available with no medical underwriting during your initial enrollment period (and very limited special enrollment periods), so it’s wise to plan ahead and choose Medigap coverage with international emergency benefits if you think you might travel during retirement.
> 
> "(Four older Medigap plans (E, H, I, and J) also provide coverage for emergencies outside the United States. They are no longer for sale, but enrollees who already have them can continue to use them.)
> 
> "With a Medigap plan that covers foreign travel, the patient pays a $250 deductible plus 20 percent coinsurance, and there’s a lifetime benefit maximum of $50,000.
> 
> "Some Medicare Advantage plans cover medical emergencies that arise during foreign travel. If you’re considering Medicare Advantage and are planning to travel outside the United States, check with the carrier to see if they cover emergency care outside the United States. Medigap plans cannot be used in conjunction with a Medicare Advantage plan."


Hi Laurie,

The only thing about the Medigap plan coverage with a lifetime benefit maximum of $50,000 is that amount is low and often would amount to insufficient coverage, especially if one had to be medevaced(sp?) home.  Good to check with www.squaremouth.com to learn about better coverage options.

Best Regards,

Richard


----------



## Passepartout

All well and good and those Medigap plans can surely help. I haven't seen any bills yet, but have burned through $50K. Our PRIMARY is the travel insurance, and is zero deductible. I have had a pacemaker installed. Had inpatient treatment for pneumonia, so far at least 5 EKGs, 2 CT scans, upgraded semi private room, I will get angioplasty tomorrow and my wife has been in an over $200/night hotel. We will get a limo to Frankfurt with upgraded seating, (I think just for me, but I'll see about upgrading Paula), a rescue nurse w/O2 all the way home.

Jim


----------



## Laurie

This thread is a good wakeup call, and I'll definitely be checking the squaremouth website for the future.  

This year for the first time, on 2 trips out-of-country, which I actually paid $$ for, I took those allianz plans offered when I booked flights, just because they do include medivac, tho maybe not to the higher limits provided by travel plans. (In the past I haven't, partly due to using a lot of AA FF miles, booking each flight as a 1-way as soon as flights open up - turns out those allianz plans don't cover you while you're over there, if you don't have a return trip on the same ticket!! Finally after about 5 trips overseas, used up most of those miles tho.) 

Just this year I've started taking various insurance plans when offered - travel, overseas auto rental - never ever do this til this last UK trip and we had an incident for the first time ever - even electronics and appliances). We're older and more aware (or superstitious) of all that can potentially go wrong, and want to go to as few places as possible to have the problems covered, as completely and hassle-free as possible, if/when they occiur.


----------



## VacationForever

For many years, we had been buying Allianz travel insurance that included pre-existing conditions within first 14 days of our initial deposit.  Then this year we switched to GeoBlue which covers only medical and evacuation.  We rely on Chase Sapphire Reserve card to cover trip interruption loss.

We had claimed against Allianz in the past and had no issues.  I claimed against CSR for a minor medical incident this year and also had no issues.


----------



## Steve Fatula

Take care Jim and we wish you a speedy recovery, that is just terrible news but it sounds like you are doing ok at least considering...


----------



## Glynda

Passepartout said:


> All well and good and those Medigap plans can surely help. I haven't seen any bills yet, but have burned through $50K. Our PRIMARY is the travel insurance, and is zero deductible. I have had a pacemaker installed. Had inpatient treatment for pneumonia, so far at least 5 EKGs, 2 CT scans, upgraded semi private room, I will get angioplasty tomorrow and my wife has been in an over $200/night hotel. We will get a limo to Frankfurt with upgraded seating, (I think just for me, but I'll see about upgrading Paula), a rescue nurse w/O2 all the way home.
> 
> Jim



Good to hear from you, Jim.  Thanks for the updates.  Have they given you any idea of when you could expect to travel home or is it too soon?  Definitely a wake-up call! i'm searching policies for the second half of our trip now.


----------



## Passepartout

Glynda said:


> Good to hear from you, Jim.  Thanks for the updates.  Have they given you any idea of when you could expect to travel home or is it too soon?  Definitely a wake-up call! i'm searching policies for the second half of our trip now.


I think we are here at least over the weekend- barring complications. After the docs release me, the travel ins has to book transport to Frankfurt- likely by limo- we have luggage, and a rescue nurse with more baggage. Then flights. Doc has recommended lie flat seating. Paula may just get coach unless we upgrade her ourselves. I'm thinking Mon or Tue, but that's a guess. Ins for evac is limited to $250K, so it shouldn't be a rubber dinghy.


----------



## Passepartout

Well, FINALLY I see light down the tunnel. They came and got me one swallow into a cuppa. We went down to the cardiac catheter lab. I had gone over all this with the doc. I was prepped, shaved, annointed with BetaDyne. By and by a German Woman introduced herself and the whole place hummed to life. They entered my right arm to check for plaques in the left heart. Some sort of snafu later & another catheter was inserted in my groin.

Long story short, I think they have ruled out any cardiac involvement in the original shortness of breath issue. Not saying I didn't need a pacemaker, I probably did. One of life's mysteries we can't know.

We have not heard as of this time about travel plans, but have talked to the responsible insurance claims rep. When asked if I could be released and spend a night in my wife's hotel room, the answer was that my rescue nurse would take custody of me AT THE HOSPITAL and not leave my side until we are either home or at a medical facility near there.


----------



## Passepartout

Yay!! The cardiologist just visited and said that I will be discharged on Monday! Boy, am I READY!


----------



## WinniWoman

Passepartout said:


> Yay!! The cardiologist just visited and said that I will be discharged on Monday! Boy, am I READY!




Great news! good luck on the trip back, Jim!


----------



## Glynda

Passepartout said:


> Well, FINALLY I see light down the tunnel. They came and got me one swallow into a cuppa. We went down to the cardiac catheter lab. I had gone over all this with the doc. I was prepped, shaved, annointed with BetaDyne. By and by a German Woman introduced herself and the whole place hummed to life. They entered my right arm to check for plaques in the left heart. Some sort of snafu later & another catheter was inserted in my groin.
> 
> Long story short, I think they have ruled out any cardiac involvement in the original shortness of breath issue. Not saying I didn't need a pacemaker, I probably did. One of life's mysteries we can't know.
> 
> We have not heard as of this time about travel plans, but have talked to the responsible insurance claims rep. When asked if I could be released and spend a night in my wife's hotel room, the answer was that my rescue nurse would take custody of me AT THE HOSPITAL and not leave my side until we are either home or at a medical facility near there.



That's very good news!


----------



## Glynda

Passepartout said:


> Yay!! The cardiologist just visited and said that I will be discharged on Monday! Boy, am I READY!



It gets better and better as I read on!


----------



## 1Kflyerguy

Glad to hear your on the mend and getting better.

I have always relied on my primary health insurance while traveling, and maybe a basic travel policy.  My policy with work does cover us worldwide, but i don't think it included any evacuation coverage or other stuff you may need while traveling.  I am definitely going to check the benefits and check into specific travel policy!


----------



## Passepartout

Now, we are down to the waiting, waiting, waiting. It's the end of the day on Saturday. The hospital is pretty quiet as only emergency patients are admitted. I hardly expect a call until at best Monday, but surmise that as soon as flight info can be put together and a rescue nurse recruited, it will go quickly.

A little more about this place. It was originally a church, the Prince Bishop's palace. Then a convent, and it was surrounded by vinyards. The second largest in Germany. One wing is all wine cellars, and this high-end wine supports the nursing home, assisted living and memory care wings. It was here that the X-Ray was invented, and they use the name Roetgen as a verb. You go get a Roetgen.

Sorry I can't post a few photos, but maybe later. It's quite a place. At the oldest building on the beautiful, leafy grounds there are statues in niches. One is of a medieval doctor holding a human heart, and pointing to the cardiac arteries. This is where new, aspiring doctors come to begin learning anatomy.




Jim


----------



## northwoodsgal

Jim,

I'm glad to see you're getting discharged and on the mend.

Your post prompted me to look in to travel insurance for our upcoming trip to South Africa.  We have never purchased travel insurance before and I didn't realize that if you don't purchase it almost immediately after making the first purchase for a trip, most plans will exclude pre-existing conditions.  It is imperative to look into to this right away!   Below is part of chat conversation I had with an InsureMyTrip.com rep last night.  He came up with only 2 policies that would cover pre-existing conditions at this point in our trip.  I'm early in my research so it may get better.


_(Me) If I have an existing medical condition, such as diabetes, and it has been under control, it is considered a pre-existing medical condition?

(Rep)A Pre-Existing Condition is any treatment, diagnostic tests or exams, any recommendations for diagnostic test or exams, or any adjustments in medication up or down within the pre-existing condition period stated (depending on the company, 60 - 180 days prior to the effective date).

(Me) So, if I were to suddenly go in to diabetic shock, it would not be covered?

(Rep) If there have been any changes to your diabetes, in the past 60-180 days, such as a change in your medication, or a change in your treatment, or new tests done, then it would be excluded from coverage.

(Me) It's good medicine to get my A1C tested every 6 months. So a routine test would exclude me from coverage?

(Rep) Possibly. Most Comprehensive Plans will offer a waiver of pre-existing conditions if you meet the following conditions: You purchase the policy within 10 - 21 days of making your first trip payment; insure ALL prepaid non-refundable expenses prior to your departure date; and be medically fit to travel the day you purchase the policy. If you have the waiver, they cannot deny a claim just because it is related to a pre-existing condition._


The second thing I learned is their definition of medical repatriation is different than what I had thought.  What I had thought was medical evacuation (a flight back to the U.S.) is really medical repatriation. 


_(Me) Let's assume something happens and my husband is treated at a hospital in South Africa. We want to return to the USA but he will require a nurse escort. He isn't returning out of medical necessity, more that we want to return home and continue treatment here. Is this considered medical evacuation?

(Rep) Emergency medical evacuation will only take place in the event the treating hospital cannot adequately treat you for your condition. Typically you will be transported to the nearest appropriate facility. If it is determined that you need to seek further care back home or to recover there these companies can arrange for that as well. It is known as a medical repatriation.

(Me) Is medical repatriation included in these policies?

(Rep) It is.  Here is what the GeoBlue plan states:

If it is Medically Necessary that Your transportation needs to be medically supervised a qualified medical attendant will escort You. Additionally, if We and/or Our designee determine a mode of transport other than economy class seating on a commercial aircraft is required, We or Our designee will arrange accordingly and such will be covered by Us.  That wording is straight from there policy_


----------



## Passepartout

Yep. We cannot stress strongly enough that you buy travel health insurance THE SAME DAY that you put a deposit on a trip. It just is not worth trying to argue if a condition is pre existing, or when you paid for insurance. Not having coverage for a pre existing condition is very nearly not having insurance at all. If you file a claim, they will ask in every way possible if you had any test or suggestion about your condition.

Jim


----------



## philemer

Passepartout said:


> Yep. We cannot stress strongly enough that you buy travel health insurance THE SAME DAY that you put a deposit on a trip. It just is not worth trying to argue if a condition is pre existing, or when you paid for insurance. Not having coverage for a pre existing condition is very nearly not having insurance at all. If you file a claim, they will ask in every way possible if you had any test or suggestion about your condition.
> 
> Jim



Hey Jim,
Good to hear that this loooong journey will be ending soon.

One thing that has always confused me is the "deposit" language. It makes sense if you make a deposit for a cruise. But what about non-cruise trips? I don't make deposits for anything. I usually use miles to book airfare & hotels/condos and then pay for a rental car with my cr. card.  Anyone asked the insurance co. reps about this situation?


----------



## Blues

philemer said:


> One thing that has always confused me is the "deposit" language. It makes sense if you make a deposit for a cruise. But what about non-cruise trips? I don't make deposits for anything. I usually use miles to book airfare & hotels/condos and then pay for a rental car with my cr. card.  Anyone asked the insurance co. reps about this situation?



It's difficult to pin down exactly what it means.  But I've always assumed that you need to buy travel insurance as soon as the first payment for anything associated with the trip leaves your hands.  Of course, you may not know the total amount to insure for at that point; but I've always just estimated.  E.g., if I'm purchasing a plane ticket, I'll buy travel insurance, and estimate the amount I'll need for the rest of the trip -- lodging, additional transportation, etc.

Note though (and this has been emphasized to me by an agent), you only need to buy enough insurance for the *non-refundable* amounts spent.  For example, if you reserve hotels, but don't pre-pay (normal case, you'll pay at checkout), then at most you'll need to add the first-night deposit that most hotels charge.  Not the amount for the entire stay.  Similarly for rental cars, trains, etc.  If you haven't (and don't need to) pre-pay, then you don't need to add that into the trip amount for insurance purposes.

So, in fact they really do mean deposits.  If you don't need to pay until later, and won't be charged if you cancel, then you don't need to insure for it.


----------



## philemer

A reasonable way to approach the issue.


----------



## Passepartout

Blues said:


> Note though (and this has been emphasized to me by an agent), you only need to buy enough insurance for the *non-refundable* amounts spent.  For example, if you reserve hotels, but don't pre-pay (normal case, you'll pay at checkout), then at most you'll need to add the first-night deposit that most hotels charge.  Not the amount for the entire stay.  Similarly for rental cars, trains, etc.  If you haven't (and don't need to) pre-pay, then you don't need to add that into the trip amount for insurance purposes.
> 
> So, in fact they really do mean deposits.  If you don't need to pay until later, and won't be charged if you cancel, then you don't need to insure for it.


This is correct. You just need to insure the non-refundable cost, but in order to make the medical benefit have the best value, insurance must be purchased almost immediately upon making a deposit on the travel. Total cost can be estimated and modified up until departure, but the all-important waiver for pre-existing conditions stays locked in by the original insurance purchase. FWIW we insured this river cruise/pre & post stay & air for $14,000. The premium was $720, for both of us.


----------



## VacationForever

We buy annual GeoBlue Trekker Choice for multi-trips which covers $250K for Medical and Accident, $500K for medical evacuation outside of the US.  It covers all pre-existing conditions.  Their condition is that you must have primary health insurance in the US.

https://www.geobluetravelinsurance.com/products/multi-trip/trekker-5-overview.cfm

We select this plan because our Chase Sapphire Reserve credit card provides trip insurance and we really want a high value coverage for medical and evacuation.

They have a network of doctors worldwide which direct bills GeoBlue.


----------



## beejaybeeohio

Jim, I am so grateful you pm'd me!  My heart goes out to you and Paula and all you've been through.  Tomorrow should be the day you leave the hospital and head home to Idaho.  Fred & I wish and pray that all remains well for you both and safe travels.
Barb


----------



## easyrider

Good Luck getting home. May you have an uneventful trip back. 

Bill


----------



## Passepartout

beejaybeeohio said:


> Jim, I am so grateful you pm'd me!  My heart goes out to you and Paula and all you've been through.  Tomorrow should be the day you leave the hospital and head home to Idaho.  Fred & I wish and pray that all remains well for you both and safe travels.
> Barb


Thanks. It means a lot to us. We got the first call about 11 local from a doc with the insurance asking how medically necessary WE feel having someone else accompanying or if We can handle normal in flight stuff (bathroom, etc) outselves, and authorizing me going to the hotel Paula 's been at until a car comes for us.

So, it starts. Discharge should be in just over an hour.

Jim


----------



## Glynda

Passepartout said:


> Thanks. It means a lot to us. We got the first call about 11 local from a doc with the insurance asking how medically necessary WE feel having someone else accompanying or if We can handle normal in flight stuff (bathroom, etc) outselves, and authorizing me going to the hotel Paula 's been at until a car comes for us.
> 
> So, it starts. Discharge should be in just over an hour.
> 
> Jim


Safe travels Jim and Paula!


----------



## myoakley

I add my prayers for a safe return.


----------



## x3 skier

Safe travels

Cheers


----------



## CalGalTraveler

Blues said:


> It's difficult to pin down exactly what it means.  But I've always assumed that you need to buy travel insurance as soon as the first payment for anything associated with the trip leaves your hands.  Of course, you may not know the total amount to insure for at that point; but I've always just estimated.  E.g., if I'm purchasing a plane ticket, I'll buy travel insurance, and estimate the amount I'll need for the rest of the trip -- lodging, additional transportation, etc.
> 
> Note though (and this has been emphasized to me by an agent), you only need to buy enough insurance for the *non-refundable* amounts spent.  For example, if you reserve hotels, but don't pre-pay (normal case, you'll pay at checkout), then at most you'll need to add the first-night deposit that most hotels charge.  Not the amount for the entire stay.  Similarly for rental cars, trains, etc.  If you haven't (and don't need to) pre-pay, then you don't need to add that into the trip amount for insurance purposes.
> 
> So, in fact they really do mean deposits.  If you don't need to pay until later, and won't be charged if you cancel, then you don't need to insure for it.



This is a very helpful thread.

I am most interested in the Medical repatriation and evacuation coverage. So if my non-refundable amount is minimal because I am paying only taxes with airfare/hotel points and TS exchange fees, then I can only list those but still get the $250k+ of medical coverage?

Is there any way to get coverage of lost Airfare or TS points?


P.S. Glad you are on the mend. Safe travels home.


----------



## philemer

Fly safe, Jim & Paula. So. Idaho is supposed to be ~106 F by tomorrow. Thank God for A/C.


----------



## Passepartout

We are getting frustrated. We were told I'd be discharged at 1 pm. A German doc called and asked if I REALLY thought I needed a nurse for assistance on the plane (ever try to put 2 people in an airplane bathroom?) Then after several hours, and no calls, we call them, and they say they are waiting on paperwork. But wait, how did we get called it they didn't have papers?. Oh, they DO have it and someone is working on flights, (48-72 hours) but we haven't heard from them. My gut feeling is that they get you so frustrated that you buy your own seats and flights and they can refuse to pay because you go against medical advice.

Jim.... Still sweating in Germany.


----------



## Steve Fatula

Passepartout said:


> We are getting frustrated. We were told I'd be discharged at 1 pm. A German doc called and asked if I REALLY thought I needed a nurse for assistance on the plane (ever try to put 2 people in an airplane bathroom?) Then after several hours, and no calls, we call them, and they say they are waiting on paperwork. But wait, how did we get called it they didn't have papers?. Oh, they DO have it and someone is working on flights, (48-72 hours) but we haven't heard from them. My gut feeling is that they get you so frustrated that you buy your own seats and flights and they can refuse to pay because you go against medical advice.
> 
> Jim.... Still sweating in Germany.



Tell them you will need a nurse due to all the calls and all the stress of leaving. I can't imagine how a nurse could possibly help on a plane bathroom. Well, don't let them pressure you, answer as you feel is necessary. Take care, and, hope to hear from you soon from back home! I for one am glad you posted all of this, it's all good to know and we wish you well.


----------



## Passepartout

Steve Fatula said:


> Tell them you will need a nurse due to all the calls and all the stress of leaving. I can't imagine how a nurse could possibly help on a plane bathroom. Well, don't let them pressure you, answer as you feel is necessary. Take care, and, hope to hear from you soon from back home! I for one am glad you posted all of this, it's all good to know and we wish you well.


Thanks Steve. I thought it might give them some relief if just Paula and I travel without O2, because TSA wants 48 hours notice if you have it, so the nurse may be a requirement. We don't even know where to get it and we are close to 100 mi. from Frankfurt. All we hear from ins is 'save receipts'. We have lots of non medical expenses. Paula's hotel, meals, transport to FRA. We hope we don't get home to a 100,000€ medical bill. This is an education. I don't know how people, less well traveled, and not being a lawyer, as Paula is, would do under expensive and stressful pressure like a medical emergency.

Anyway, FWIW, I feel much better than I did coming. A pacemaker will do that for ya.

Jim


----------



## Steve Fatula

Passepartout said:


> Thanks Steve. I thought it might give them some relief if just Paula and I travel without O2, because TSA wants 48 hours notice if you have it, so the nurse may be a requirement. We don't even know where to get it and we are close to 100 mi. from Frankfurt. All we hear from ins is 'save receipts'. We have lots of non medical expenses. Paula's hotel, meals, transport to FRA. We hope we don't get home to a 100,000€ medical bill. This is an education. I don't know how people, less well traveled, and not being a lawyer, as Paula is, would do under expensive and stressful pressure like a medical emergency.
> 
> Anyway, FWIW, I feel much better than I did coming. A pacemaker will do that for ya.
> 
> Jim



I can tell you how DW would do if it were me, total and complete panic and chaos. She would say yes to anything they asked.


----------



## Passepartout

I asked Paula if she wouldn't rather go home and I'd follow when I could. She said that would be the worst possible thing she could do. No, I stuck with her through her cancer diagnosis & treatment. She feels this is only fair. We're a team.

Jim


----------



## sun starved Gayle

Safe travel Jim and Paula. So sorry for all your troubles. Best wishes to you both.


----------



## taffy19

Jim, good luck flying home and that you may feel well enough to continue making your favorite trips to your bucket list.

My husband flew home once with a Registered Nurse sitting next to him and they sat me somewhere else on the plane.  

The flight went well for him.  The hospital prepped him with whatever he needed (catheter, air, etc).  The nurse assisted him to our hospital at home and flew back the next day.

We now travel with a yearly policy in place with AirMed.com and they take care of everything by dialing an 800 number.  We had no travel insurance then so learned our lesson.

Believe me, it is peace of mind for the spouse so we will keep using it as long we keep driving or flying more than 150 miles away from home.

We have been lucky enough to not have to use it but the peace of mind for the other spouse is worth the premium to us.  You can read more on their website.


----------



## VacationForever

Steve Fatula said:


> I can tell you how DW would do if it were me, total and complete panic and chaos. She would say yes to anything they asked.


I hope she is not reading this TUG thread!


----------



## Steve Fatula

VacationForever said:


> I hope she is not reading this TUG thread!



She would give it a like! She knows this!


----------



## Passepartout

After much back and forth, phone, Skype, email, etc, it looks like our rescue nurse will pick us up, take us to Frankfurt, and fly out Thursday, me in Business and Paula in Econ Comfort. My doc is notified- Oh, and the pet kennel. So, HOME BY THURSDAY NIGHT! (Well, a VERY long Thursday.)

Thanks everyone for your support and good thoughts. As this irons out, I will post about our dealings with insurance.

Jim


----------



## Luanne

Jim, I'm looking forward to your post saying "We're home!".


----------



## Passepartout

At Frankfurt Airport United Business lounge. Liftoff in an hour or so. WooHoo!


----------



## philemer

Passepartout said:


> At Frankfurt Airport United Business lounge. Liftoff in an hour or so. WooHoo!



Great news, Jim.


----------



## Krteczech

Have a safe trip home!


----------



## Passepartout

We are home. Thanks everyone, for the well-wishes. Now to dig into the 'why'. Oh, and catch up on some sleep. The insurance provided Rescue Nurse handled ALL the details. Checked my vitals every hour or two. Arranged for transportation from private cars to wheelchairs, shepherded us through two TSA 'pat downs', got us both upgraded seats, and generally became a new friend.

She said our 4 days together was fairly typical of her assignments. Some are much tougher. This woman is retired 27 year Air Force Veteran, Lt. Colonel, who brought lots of soldiers home on flying hospital, C-17 airplanes from the Middle East. She earned my respect, BIGLY!

Jim


----------



## Glynda

Passepartout said:


> We are home. Thanks everyone, for the well-wishes. Now to dig into the 'why'. Oh, and catch up on some sleep. The insurance provided Rescue Nurse handled ALL the details. Checked my vitals every hour or two. Arranged for transportation from private cars to wheelchairs, shepherded us through two TSA 'pat downs', got us both upgraded seats, and generally became a new friend.c
> 
> She said our 4 days together was fairly typical of her assignments. Some are much tougher. This woman is retired 27 year Air Force Veteran, Lt. Colonel, who brought lots of soldiers home on flying hospital, C-17 airplanes from the Middle East. She earned my respect, BIGLY!
> 
> Jim


So glad it all worked out!


----------



## WinniWoman

Passepartout said:


> We are home. Thanks everyone, for the well-wishes. Now to dig into the 'why'. Oh, and catch up on some sleep. The insurance provided Rescue Nurse handled ALL the details. Checked my vitals every hour or two. Arranged for transportation from private cars to wheelchairs, shepherded us through two TSA 'pat downs', got us both upgraded seats, and generally became a new friend.c
> 
> She said our 4 days together was fairly typical of her assignments. Some are much tougher. This woman is retired 27 year Air Force Veteran, Lt. Colonel, who brought lots of soldiers home on flying hospital, C-17 airplanes from the Middle East. She earned my respect, BIGLY!
> 
> Jim




Wow, Jim! Very glad to hear you are finally home. What an ordeal! That nurse sounds spectacular. Best wishes for a speedy full recovery.


----------



## philemer

Yahoooo...


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## Magic1962

Welcome home Jim,  I have been following your story from beginning to end!!!   Travel Insurance is a must when going out of the country....  I go to Africa and Europe every couple of years and would NEVER travel without a plan....  again welcome home... and get better.    Dave....


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## Passepartout

A second Travel Health Insurance thought. Just looking through our home Medicare Advantage insurance- for those tempted to just travel on this and be reimbursed later. Average hospital stay for a pacemaker is 8 days. Our M/A co-pay is $300 per day. The travel insurance we bought is $ ZERO co-pay, ZERO deductible, PRIMARY insurance. No one has asked for any payment AT ALL. We agreed to pay the German hospital for an upgraded semi-private room (78€/ day), but there was no bill when we left. 

I don't know that we will ever see an accounting of what the insurance has-or will pay, but the fact that it's primary and how they handled the evacuation speaks volumes. All the travel health insurance we've ever bought is now well paid for!


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## Passepartout

Deleted [duplicate]


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## Luanne

Jim, so glad to hear you are safely home!


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## silentg

Glad you and your wife arrived home safely. Nothing like sleeping in your own bed.
Rest up and get well soon.
Silentg


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## taffy19

Happy to read that you are home safe and sound, Jim.


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## Passepartout

I feel good. Better in fact than when we left for this trip. I will be following up with a cardiology team. All the release papers and test results are in German. Typing it into Google Translate works pretty well, but I suspect the local docs will have more questions than I have answers.

I just can't stress enough- especially if you are on Medicare, BUY TRAVEL INSURANCE! It must be PRIMARY.  Otherwise  if you have a medical emergency, payment will first be sought from your home insurance, and it may just not be enough. For instance, my Medicare supplement has told me that they will pay up to what Medicare pays. AND you MUST submit itemized billing IN ENGLISH- Something we found impossible in our circumstance. But I would have been subject to $300/day co-pay in the hospital, and a fee for ER admittance. Plus 20% co-pay on procedures. SO FAR I have paid just 36€ to be admitted. PERIOD. Nothing for 9 days hospitalization.. Nothing for the Pacemaker. Nothing for Pneumonia treatment. Nothing for Echocardiogram. Nothing for cardiac Catheritization. Nothing for the Rescue Nurse. Nothing for Business and First Class airfare & limos to get home. NOTHING. (yet). Stay tuned.

As I said above. I feel good. I also feel very lucky. To have fallen ill exactly where some of the best care anywhere could be provided. To have had a wife who stuck with me and to have had the good fortune to have bought enough PRIMARY insurance to pay for it humbles me. This could very easily have resulted in a very different outcome.

More as treatment- and billing- continues.

Jim


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## Passepartout

Just a quick update after a week at home. I FEEL GREAT! More stamina, sleeping better. I've been to my 'regular' doctor. He agrees 100% with the diagnosis and care I got in Germany. He DID order a repeat of a blood panel and set me up with a local cardiologist- and get this- a 'pacemaker group' or clinic or something. Who knew there is such a thing. That's next week, so stay tuned.

One group I've neglected to mention that I think deserves high praise. AMAWaterways and 'Friends of Dave' https://www.rivercruiseking.com/. We were on their river cruise called 'Castles and Wine' when I just ran out of breath and couldn't keep up. The Cruise manager INSISTED that I 'Just go get a scan' and assured me that he'd stick with me as long as necessary and get me to and from the hospital. He said this was the best medical facility we would be close to and that we were moving into an area with not as good care. As soon as I was admitted, he took Paula back to the boat to pack up for both of us and the local agent (you know that person who is on your local papers every time a cruise ship docks- that you ignore- well this is what they do) picked Paula and our bags and got her into a hotel near the hospital. AMA called EVERY DAY. The local agent and his wife came to the hospital to visit 3-4 times including taking us to an excellent 'Weinstuben'- gourmet restaurant IN the hospital grounds (it has the second largest winery in Germany- and endows their nursing home and hospice care).

Today, the doorbell rang and there was a guy with a beautiful bouquet of flowers for us from AMAWaterways President and owner. If we ever consider another European- or S.E. Asian river cruise, there is no doubt in my mind that AMAWaterways is one we would more than just consider.

Still no bills.

Jim


----------



## Helaine

Passepartout said:


> Today, the doorbell rang and there was a guy with a beautiful bouquet of flowers for us from AMAWaterways President and owner. If we ever consider another European- or S.E. Asian river cruise, there is no doubt in my mind that AMAWaterways is one we would more than just consider.



That is truly amazing! You just don't see that kind of caring from the head of a large business - or his people - very often any more.

I really want to try AMAWaterways now! I had heard they were good - now they sound fabulous.


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## Icc5

My tablet started acting up as I was starting to write questions.  Can you condense above and please answer a few questions since you seem to have found a great company to work with.  
Name of company,cost, is it per trip or per year?
Thank you and glad you are doing so much better.
Bart


----------



## Passepartout

Icc5 said:


> My tablet started acting up as I was starting to write questions.  Can you condense above and please answer a few questions since you seem to have found a great company to work with.
> Name of company,cost, is it per trip or per year?
> Thank you and glad you are doing so much better.
> Bart


All the details are in post #1, and in #11. Global Alert, through www.squaremouth.com per trip based on trip cost. The cost of this trip policy was $720 for both of us.

Jim


----------



## Glynda

Passepartout said:


> Just a quick update after a week at home. I FEEL GREAT! More stamina, sleeping better. I've been to my 'regular' doctor. He agrees 100% with the diagnosis and care I got in Germany. He DID order a repeat of a blood panel and set me up with a local cardiologist- and get this- a 'pacemaker group' or clinic or something. Who knew there is such a thing. That's next week, so stay tuned.
> 
> One group I've neglected to mention that I think deserves high praise. AMAWaterways and 'Friends of Dave' https://www.rivercruiseking.com/. We were on their river cruise called 'Castles and Wine' when I just ran out of breath and couldn't keep up. The Cruise manager INSISTED that I 'Just go get a scan' and assured me that he'd stick with me as long as necessary and get me to and from the hospital. He said this was the best medical facility we would be close to and that we were moving into an area with not as good care. As soon as I was admitted, he took Paula back to the boat to pack up for both of us and the local agent (you know that person who is on your local papers every time a cruise ship docks- that you ignore- well this is what they do) picked Paula and our bags and got her into a hotel near the hospital. AMA called EVERY DAY. The local agent and his wife came to the hospital to visit 3-4 times including taking us to an excellent 'Weinstuben'- gourmet restaurant IN the hospital grounds (it has the second largest winery in Germany- and endows their nursing home and hospice care).
> 
> Today, the doorbell rang and there was a guy with a beautiful bouquet of flowers for us from AMAWaterways President and owner. If we ever consider another European- or S.E. Asian river cruise, there is no doubt in my mind that AMAWaterways is one we would more than just consider.
> 
> Still no bills.
> 
> Jim



That's amazing and though I had already chosen AMA for when we do a river cruise, that just cements my decision.


----------



## Passepartout

Glynda said:


> That's amazing and though I had already chosen AMA for when we do a river cruise, that just cements my decision.


Not least of which was the handwritten note from the Owner/President personally wishing me well and speedy recovery. They didn't miss a day contacting Paula from Basel Switzerland (their head office) while I was hospitalized, and stuck with us until we were safely headed home. And we hadn't even bought their insurance!! Amazing, family owned company. I can't say enough good things for our care. Had it not been for the AMA cruise manager, Raul, and the rest of the AMA team, the outcome may have been very different. I am beyond grateful.

Jim


----------



## Icc5

Passepartout said:


> All the details are in post #1, and in #11. Global Alert, through www.squaremouth.com per trip based on trip cost. The cost of this trip policy was $720 for both of us.
> 
> Jim


Thank you Jim.


----------



## JudyH

Thanks so much for all this. Glad you are healing well.


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## Passepartout

Thanks everyone for the good wishes. I feel GREAT. The pacemaker seems to be doing exactly what it is supposed to. My new local Cardiologist looked over the notes from Germany and just said, "See you in 6 months".

Came home yesterday to the first bill from the German hospital. I was put in a 'deluxe' semi-private room initially. I chose to stay in that room instead of a 4 bed 'ward' for 73 Euros a day extra. It had snacks, bottled water/juices, coffee, kuchen every afternoon, a fridge and table and chairs. Much nicer. The travel insurance said they wouldn't cover it. We have turned it into our home Medicare Advantage insurance. Their claims agent said it looks like they would cover it. I'm OK either way. We've also turned in the bills for Paula's hotel room and meals to the travel insurance. Stay tuned. More as this develops.

Jim


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## 47vampire

Glad to see you made it home and for sharing so much.  I learned a few years back when injured on a dock in the Bahamas how hard it could be to get care outside of the US and how basically I had to pay and submit for reimbursement which covered some but not all.  Covered far less than if I had been in the US.  Now my husband is on Medicare and I didn't really realize all of this but had been buying travel insurance when making travel reservations but now I will look a little deeper.  We next 2 trips are out of the US.  Again, such a great travel education from fellow tuggers.  THANKS


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## MLR

Have read these posts with interest. So sorry to hear of your health issues and happy that you are feeling better and that you had the travel insurance. We always purchase it for our trips - ever since we turned 65 and know that Medicare and supplement is not enough in foreign countries. 

We traveled to MX for our son's destination wedding in May WITHOUT travel insurance. We were BOTH sick with the flu the entire trip - got propped up with meds for the ceremony and went right back to bed. Decided we would never travel without the ins. again.  Just happened that hubs was hospitalized for stuck kidney stones and a huge pecan sized bladder stone. Spent two agonizing days in hospital. Better now. But afterwards we realized that it could have easily happened in MX with no travel insurance. That would have been awful. So, never again.

Appreciated all the comments on experiences and we buy the insurance and never know if it really 'pays when needed' or not. Dealt with Squaremouth as well but will look into the one the poster mentioned since we have the Chase Sapphire travel card as well. 

Again, hoping for a full recovering to good health for you.


----------



## MLR

I agree with 47vampire. TUGgers are a great help when it comes to travel. Yes, we buy the medical (no out of pocket and what we call 'bag and tag' which will airlift us home if needed). Otherwise, in MX esp., you can be held hostage until someone pays - and not everyone has a credit card limit high enough to handle it. :0(  So, if you are uninsured OR on Medicare - buy the insurance. It seems like a lot of money but not if you need the insurance as the original poster did.


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## TXTortoise

Excellent thread and so happy you were where you were in Germany. 

This is probably the best summary I’ve read that speaks to medical vs evac policies.  While most travelers on TUG are doing more traditional types of trips, having an event in any third world country or remote location can be complicated. 

https://expeditionportal.com/buyers-guide-travel-insurance-rescue-and-medical-evacuation-services/


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## melow

Hello Jim...thank you for the travel insurance education you provided me (and, of course, others) during such a stressful time of your life. Amazing you managed to carry on a conversation while all that was going on. I am from Okemos, MI and am new to TUG but not to timeshare, first purchasing in 1982.  I've always subscribed to Timeshare Today and found TUG by accident. Gracias a dios that I happened to find your thread on this subject. How fortunate I have been not to have had any medical problems during all my traveling years, especially since I never took out insurance! And am happy I traveled so much in my younger years since joint problems are impeding my current travel. I  refuse to have knee replacements. However, I am just getting ready to book flights to Panama City, Panama, for a week's worth of stem cell treatment at the Stem Cell Institute; and because of you, I will perform my due diligence and obtain the proper insurance coverage. Thank you again. So happy you are home safe and sound...or maybe even sounder?

By the way, anyone interested in Stem Cell info should go to cellmedicine.com for a discussion of Dr. Neil Riordan's ( Dr. Riordan also has offices in South Lake, Texas) treatment of the degenerative and autoimmune diseases (Osteoarthritis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, M.S., Heart Failure, Cerebral Palsy, Spinal Injury, Lupus) which is done in Panama with adult stem cells...which can't yet be used in the U.S. The US requires the Stem cells be only taken from your own bone marrow. This is the clinic where Mel Gibson's Dad was treated. He turned 100 last month..the video is on UTube...he was at Mayo, needed heart surgery...valve replacement....but with stem cells, the heart valve healed itself..Dr. Riordan believes this will be standard treatment in 20 years...but I don't have 20 years and I have more traveling to do. 

And another quirk here..the gentleman at the Institute who arranges patients' hotel accommodations is an Irishman who used to work near my timeshare resort, Fitzpatricks Castle Holiday Homes in Kiliney outside of Dublin. 

And one more "By The Way"... thanks for remembering Gilda. We went to school together...24 girls in our class at the Liggett School in Detroit...and then on to Michigan for undergrad til she took off for Toronto. GO BLUE. But young people today don't even know who she was.. so they took her name off Gilda's Clubs because of this. It's always something!!

Anyway..after this little epistle...my best to you and your better half (I'm also a lawyer, but lost the one who watched over me 4 years ago.).
Mary Elizabeth Low


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## Karen G

Jim, I just now read through this whole thread and I'm so thankful for your successful outcome, health wise and insurance wise! I was on a trip myself when this whole saga began and I wasn't aware of what you were going through. I'm glad TUG Brian mentioned it in the TUG Newsletter. So glad you are feeling better than you were before you went on this trip and I so appreciate all the good information you've shared. Best wishes for continued good health and travels.


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## topcop400

I’m so glad you were seen before you had a cardiac event that took your life.   Things could have been so much worse!  I bet you are glad to be home.


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## GrayFal

I also read thru your thread.  Tom and I just purchased yearly travel insirance as he is now on medicare   
When did we get sooooo old?


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## Passepartout

Thank you all for your kind thoughts and well wishes. Today, after Brian linked my thread in the weekly newsletter, I re-read some of my posts. It was clear that I was not at my best. Mis -spellings, typos, just sloppy typing, but please understand, I was NOT at my best and was on a tablet with a virtual keyboard.

The important points are, (a) buy your travel insurance immediately when you put down your FIRST deposit on travel. This will ensure that pre-existing conditions are covered, and (b) make sure that the medical portion of your coverage is PRIMARY. This way the travel insurance can be billed directly by the provider, and you won't have to have forms translated, declined, re-submitted to another carrier and ultimately you having to pay.

So far I don't know what will be paid on my claim, but I'm fully repaired, got great care, and what could easily have caused my earlier than necessary departure has been postponed for a while, a good, long while, I hope.

Again, THANKS!

Jim


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## skimeup

Good heavens what a saga!  So glad it all has a happy ending and so wonderful of you to share your experience with the hospitals and especially, for tuggers benefit, the experience with the insurance company and medicare.  Please keep us updated as bills come in and get paid.  Especially interested in what medicare and medigap covers.  Do they consider themselves secondary and your travel insurer primary or how does that work?  What was maximum coverage?

This caused me to review the Global Emergency Travel Insurance I bought through Interval International.  It covers emergency travel over 100 miles from home, concierge services to locate doctors, and emergency evacuations to local hospitals (think if you are in the mountains) or to get you home from somewhere that doesn't have adequate medical care if need be.  Nice but doesn't cover any medical itself.  Some coverage for travel for companion or family.  You can read it here:  https://www.skymed.us/SkyMedService...spx?mn=492486221585246924&msav=GETSii20120201   All the same, I am glad I have it for travel in the USA over 100 miles.  Accidents and illnesses can happen here, too, and medicare will cover the medical stuff!

Somehow I had thought it covered more - I thought it covered me for illness when I was in Mexico not too long ago.  Glad I didn't get sick!  Off to Barcelona in October - I'll definitely purchase coverage.  After all, at 75 I do have to consider not just my mortality but the possibilities of illness and broken bones.  So glad to have gotten information on various insurance companies through this thread.  

Speaking of broken bones, my friend was on a trip on the Silk Route in China and managed to fall and break his femur (thigh bone).  The guide got him to a local hospital three hours away (over bumpy roads - so you can imagine how much morphine they gave him.)  Local hospital treated him and helicoptered him to a state of the art facility in Beijing.  After he was stabilized, he was sent home with a travel nurse and Kaiser took over.  All covered by his travel insurance.  I am checking on who the insurer was but he tells me he didn't pay a thing and his docs said his care could not have been better.  Guess I'll need to check out squarepoint.  Fortunately my only pre-existing condition is hypothyroidism.


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## acaseyc

We have On Call International travel insurance always included in our MF payment every year from our timeshare in Mexico. It applies only on travel to that timeshare.  Includes 12 pages of benefits, which I have printed out and goes everywhere we go in my carry on suitcase. They have 24 hour worldwide assistance.  It is a requirement that they must be notified before care is given.  For an extra $15 a year for both of us, their coverage includes ALL our trips 100 miles or more away from home !  What a buy! We have only had to use it once, and not for a big emergency, thank goodness.
We too are on MediCare, which does not cover foreign travel.  A word of warning to the wise:  be protected !
Best wishes to you Jim for return to good health, and to Paula who is supporting you.


----------



## Passepartout

acaseyc said:


> We have On Call International travel insurance always included in our MF payment every year from our timeshare in Mexico. It applies only on travel to that timeshare.  Includes 12 pages of benefits, which I have printed out and goes everywhere we go in my carry on suitcase. They have 24 hour worldwide assistance.  It is a requirement that they must be notified before care is given.  For an extra $15 a year for both of us, their coverage includes ALL our trips 100 miles or more away from home !  What a buy! We have only had to use it once, and not for a big emergency, thank goodness.
> We too are on MediCare, which does not cover foreign travel.  A word of warning to the wise:  be protected !
> Best wishes to you Jim for return to good health, and to Paula who is supporting you.


On Call Int'l was who apparently was who was notified by AMAWaterways as I was enroute to the hospital. The hospital had their claims forms by the next morning, and it was On Call that provided the Rescue Nurse and arranged our flights home. We had bought the insurance from Global Alert, (through squaremouth.com) but they apparently use On Call to provide services. Interesting.
You get into this and it's like peeling an onion. Lots of layers of responsibility.

On Call just handled the medical and evacuation portion of my claim. All other, TRAVEL related stuff, the trip cancellation, trip delay, trip interruption, if there had been lost luggage or a myriad of other travel loses are covered by other entities.

Thanks for posting.


----------



## marijalas

Passepartout said:


> *The whole reason for posting all this is as a cautionary tale* of what CAN happen when traveling, along with accidents and unexpected occurances. We, along with lots of TUGgers are just on Medicare - that doesn't cover medical outside the US. My supplement SAYS they will ' cover up to what Medicare covers as long as you provide itemized invoice in English.' Great! Just try to get that translation done across medications and procedures with different names.
> 
> This care I am getting would be entirely at my expense without travel medical insurance. For this trip, it was about $720, for two, to cover $14,000 of trip cost. Then you have to dig for the medical and evacuation benefits. When done, they may pay many hundreds of thousands.
> 
> When planning a trip, and buying insirance, it's about more than the low cost.
> 
> Jim



 Your situation sounds like Worst Case Scenario. So sorry for your trouble. Glad you had excellent care and are healing. Thank you for your information.


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## Passepartout

marijalas said:


> Your situation sounds like Worst Case Scenario. So sorry for your trouble. Glad you had excellent care and are healing. Thank you for your information.


Nope. Worst Case would have been if this happened in some 3rd world country, or if I had had my way and done nothing, saying I'll just rest and my heart, just chugging along at 40 BPM with pneumonia, had stopped. How many times have we heard, "So and so said he didn't feel good and went to bed & died in his sleep of an 'apparent heart attack'"?

On many levels, I was very lucky and was surrounded by people who cared. 

Jim


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## Coach Boon

Glad to hear everything and I do mean everything worked out well for you Jim. I've read your comments on TUG many times. More importantly is your story on travel insurance.

I'm curious to know if not buying travel insurance is an American thing. Canadians never leave home without travel insurance. This could be down to the fact that sooo many of us travel to the US or stay for long periods of time (snowbirds anyone)? We're well aware of the high costs of a US hospital stay.

I'm no insurance expert perhaps we could get one to do an article for TUG members?

Rule #1 is always have travel insurance regardless of your age. I think Jim's experience clearly demonstrates that.
Rule #2 be aware of what you're buying. Pre-conditions may exclude your coverage completely. 

I don't buy travel/health insurance for specific trips. I have a yearly plan bought from CAA (AAA) to cover my business trips which can happen on short notice. Its good for 10 day stretches but easy to extend for longer stretches. My son who is traveling the world for about a year has a special travel/health insurance just for those kind of travelers.

Certain Amex cards also have travel/health insurance. I don't rely on it but its nice to have just the same. You have to book your tickets through them. They even have a list of English speaking doctors in just about every country. I'm sure other premium cards offer the same.

Last points:
Read Rule #1
Safe travels to eveyone.


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## gsedlock

Jim, thank you so much for taking the time to write this thread and respond to all of the posting.    I have, at times, been cavalier about travel insurance.   No more!   

So glad that you have recovered and are doing well.

Greg


----------



## LauriBuck

Has anyone used the travel insurance offered through Veteran's Advantage.  It's available to Veteran's and their family members.  You have to have a membership to Veterans Advantage - available to Veterans and family members.  My husband has had a membership for a while to Veteran's advantage.  We haven't used it much, but we have gotten a few discounts on United Airlines (5%).  I'm thinking about getting their TravelProtection policy.  It's only $20/year per family member and covers $50,000 Medivac insurance if you're more than 100 miles away from home.  It costs around $60/year to be a member of Veteran's Advantage and half of that for each family member added.


----------



## Passepartout

Today, we submitted a bit over $10,000 in claims for non-medical losses. 5 days of the cruise, Paula's hotel, meals, loss of the original airfare home, and some other odds and ends. I'll post with the outcome.

Jim


----------



## Sandy VDH

Insurance is a tricky business.  There are so many conditional situations.  On purchasing based on where you live what kind of coverage does your state allow.  It also depends on the situation that happens, where it happens.  When we sell travel insurance, we are advised NOT to act as an expert, we are to utilize the insurance providers and let them answer the question.  All insurance policies sold also give you a 10 day review period.  When you get the insurance coverage document, that is when you need to review it.  I just went through this trying to purchase an annual policy.  Depending on their state of residency, coverage is normally Secondary but some states will only let Primary coverage be sold in that state (eg NY), a similar policy has different riders depending on residency of the individual who purchases the product.  

ADVICE, Read your Coverage within the cancellation period, usually 10 days.  Make sure you review it and it provides the coverage and the limits you require.  If not cancel it and purchase something else.


----------



## dreamin

I just wanted to add that you must contact your travel insurance provider within 24 hours of seeking medical assistance or they may not cover your expenses (according to the small print in the policy).  In an emergency situation the hospital will provide the care but they will be asking for insurance coverage as soon as you are non-critical or by contacting family members.  In Jim's case, he said AMA contacted the insurance company enroute to hospital.

I had to be treated for bronchitis twice while travelling in Portugal in February.  The hospital would not direct-bill the insurance company so I had to pay around 500 euros and was reimbursed in full when I submitted the expenses on my return home.  I was well enough to phone my insurance provider and had pre-approval from them.

Not ALL Canadians get travel insurance, although they should.  It was publicized after the Las Vegas shootings that some young Canadians who were hospitalized due to their injuries did not have medical insurance and were struggling to pay the US hospital bills.  Some had GoFundMe accounts set up.  Accidents can happen to all ages, not just us 65+ travellers!

Best wishes, Jim, during your rehab and full recovery.  Your posting was so valuable to all travellers.


----------



## lvhmbh

Glad to hear things worked out for your Jim.  We didn't guy insurance one year and, of course, I needed it as we were unable to travel due to illness.  TG we always purchase now.  Just got our check for the cruise we had to cancel due to my husband's diagnosis of cancer.  It had to be treated right away and we were just a little over the 30 days out.  Regent paid what was due and then our insurance company paid the rest promptly.  We had a lot of documentation and actually faxed 17 pages of info lol!  DH is doing well but is in treatment.  Outcome is predicted to be very good as it was caused by HPV.  That's a story for another thread I'm going to start.


----------



## Passepartout

lvhmbh said:


> Just got our check for the cruise we had to cancel due to my husband's diagnosis of cancer.  It had to be treated right away and we were just a little over the 30 days out.. . . .   DH is doing well but is in treatment.  Outcome is predicted to be very good as it was caused by HPV.



Travel insurance is an absolute necessity. Traveling without it is simply playing Russian Roulette. Glad your husband's cancer was found and in time for effective treatment. Wishing you more safe travels.

Jim


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## lvhmbh

Thank you!


----------



## philemer

Wife and I had a beer with Jim & Paula a few days after they returned and they BOTH looked* GREAT*. I'm a firm believer in travel ins too!


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## Passepartout

We got notified by email yesterday that one adjuster had received our larger claim ($10,000ish for trip interruption and to cancel another trip) and that they settle them in order, and a number to call and check progress. Today a letter comes in the mail from a different entity that THEY have passes it on to another outfit. Also I got my medical bill from the German hospital. ($12,500) They said that OnCall had said that they (the hospital) should have ME pay them by bank transfer then submit to them for reimbursement. 

Anyone who thinks a travel insurance medical claim will ALL be taken care of easily and automatically is sorely mistaken. Carriers change, policies are updated, different entities suddenly emerge. It's like everyone is standing in a circle saying that it's someone else's responsibility.

OTOH, the cost of getting a pacemaker installed where I did, all-in, is less than half the cost of the lowest price I've seen in the USA. And that for a top-line, American made unit. The problem is the insurance, not the medical care.

Jim


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## billymach4

Jim.

Glad you are continuing to stay healthy. 

Crazy maze tangled web of insurance partners under the covers. 


Passepartout said:


> We got notified by email yesterday that one adjuster had received our larger claim ($10,000ish for trip interruption and to cancel another trip) and that they settle them in order, and a number to call and check progress. Today a letter comes in the mail from a different entity that THEY have passes it on to another outfit. Also I got my medical bill from the German hospital. ($12,500) They said that OnCall had said that they (the hospital) should have ME pay them by bank transfer then submit to them for reimbursement.
> 
> Anyone who thinks a travel insurance medical claim will ALL be taken care of easily and automatically is sorely mistaken. Carriers change, policies are updated, different entities suddenly emerge. It's like everyone is standing in a circle saying that it's someone else's responsibility.
> 
> OTOH, the cost of getting a pacemaker installed where I did, all-in, is less than half the cost of the lowest price I've seen in the USA. And that for a top-line, American made unit. The problem is the insurance, not the medical care.
> 
> Jim


----------



## VacationForever

Passepartout said:


> We got notified by email yesterday that one adjuster had received our larger claim ($10,000ish for trip interruption and to cancel another trip) and that they settle them in order, and a number to call and check progress. Today a letter comes in the mail from a different entity that THEY have passes it on to another outfit. Also I got my medical bill from the German hospital. ($12,500) They said that OnCall had said that they (the hospital) should have ME pay them by bank transfer then submit to them for reimbursement.
> 
> Anyone who thinks a travel insurance medical claim will ALL be taken care of easily and automatically is sorely mistaken. Carriers change, policies are updated, different entities suddenly emerge. It's like everyone is standing in a circle saying that it's someone else's responsibility.
> 
> OTOH, the cost of getting a pacemaker installed where I did, all-in, is less than half the cost of the lowest price I've seen in the USA. And that for a top-line, American made unit. The problem is the insurance, not the medical care.
> 
> Jim


Hence in posts in other thread is to look at something like GeoBlue in the future.  GeoBlue has network of doctors and hospitals that bill GeoBlue directly.  We have not used them yet, touch wood, but I did look up list of doctors when I went to Singapore in March and found 30+ doctors in their network.


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## Passepartout

VacationForever said:


> Hence in posts in other thread is to look at something like GeoBlue in the future.  GeoBlue has network of doctors and hospitals that bill GeoBlue directly.  We have not used them yet, touch wood, but I did look up list of doctors when I went to Singapore in March and found 30+ doctors in their network.


That may be closer to a seamless coverage, but at a cost. GeoBlue is a BCBS outfit. No doubt that going to a pre-approved, in-network provider would be preferable- but sometimes you just don't have the time to look in a manual or website to find out who to call. I looked at their website, and on filling out an application, the first question asked was 'Do you have Primary Coverage?' I didn't pursue it further as I was just filling out a 'trial' to compare. Am I happy with the way we are being shunted around and mislead by the current 'nest of thieves'. I'm confident that in the end it will work out. Paula is tenacious at dealing with this type thing, but we wonder how people who are not lawyers and may be unused to standing their ground and demanding satisfaction would deal with the bureaucracy.

We bought the insurance we have through www.squaremouth.com who says they have a 'Zero Complaint' policy. So far we haven't turned in a report or review on our satisfaction. Time will tell. We are only about 6 weeks into this entire ordeal, and the claims have only left our hands within the past week- in fact I just got the medical bill today.

I'll keep the thread going as things develop.

Jim


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## barongan

Thanks for sharing your story,following


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## Passepartout

It's been about six weeks since the outset of our 'adventure' through overseas trip interruption and healthcare, and the insurance payoff is trickling in. The first was the direct payment to the airlines to get us home. That included the Rescue Nurse accompaniment with oxygen for me, car and driver hire for her from Frankfurt and for us back to the airport. My (and the nurse's) Business class flights from Frankfurt to final destination at home, and Paula's economy ticket- we upgraded her to Economy Comfort at our expense. We haven't seen the cost of that but estimate those last-minute tickets at $20,000.

We were just notified by the travel insurance's claim adjuster that his portion (trip interruption) of the bills had been approved. They are refunding us half the cost of our round-trip airfare (we didn't use the return portion). They are refunding 6 days of our 7 day river cruise. They are refunding us the maximum ($1,000) for trip interruption to apply to Paula's hotel bill while I was in the hospital. Approx. $8,300. I said in post 130 that the first claim submitted was about $10,000 but some of that was moved over to the medical claim, so the trip interruption was educed to $8300ish.

We still have the medical portion of the bill to submit and be paid for. We expect to get a call from the medical claims adjuster next week. I just got the hospital bill last week. (+-9,600 Euros + about 700 Euros for my 'Deluxe' semi-private room) It will be about $12,500 when all said and done. It may not be settled for several more weeks, and I'll post when the checks come in. Interestingly, the lowest price I've seen in the US for a pacemaker installation, angiography (with balloon or stents) and echocardiogram looks to be about $50K to $105,000. No wonder this hospital in Germany has a good number of American patients!

So if you think you want to look at bills like these for an unexpected medical problem that could pop up on your overseas trip, just keep that ($360 each) premium in your travel wallet. And it could be a whole lot worse if one is beset with a serious medical emergency in a 3rd world country without state-of-the-art medical care.

Jim


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## philemer

Thanks for the update, Jim. Looks positive so far. We're doing a Caribbean cruise this winter and just purchased our Ins. through squaremouth.com site. $170 total for 2 of us.


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## glypnirsgirl

I am so glad that you are okay. 

I stumbled across this thread while looking for information on travel insurance. Ian has a heart condition and we are traveling to Cuba on a three day cruise in November. I have already made one major mistake in not getting the travel insurance when I paid the deposit for the cruise.

The information that you have included in invaluable!

elaine


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## Passepartout

glypnirsgirl said:


> I am so glad that you are okay.
> 
> I stumbled across this thread while looking for information on travel insurance. Ian has a heart condition and we are traveling to Cuba on a three day cruise in November. I have already made one major mistake in not getting the travel insurance when I paid the deposit for the cruise.
> 
> The information that you have included in invaluable!
> 
> elaine


Thanks, Elaine.
Yeah, it's a pretty good read- if a bit lengthy. It has worked out great. I'm better than I was in early July leaving. There were some signs I may have missed, but after the 'Pro's from Wurzburg' got hold of me, they weren't about to let me out of there until they were sure I wouldn't be back for anything they might have neglected.I

Yes, you should have checked two boxes as regards travel insurance. One, you are buying it anyway, so you'd just as well buy it at the same time as you commit, and pay the deposit. And two, that you make sure the medical coverage is PRIMARY. Then you don't get in any argument about who pays what. And no reimbursement hassles. 

I expect to get with my medical insurance claims person this week (just got the hospital bill in German last week) and a time frame on when I can expect the hospital to be paid. The hospital said I should bank transfer them payment then get reimbursed by insurance. I told them I didn't have $12,000 just laying around to send them.  We'll see how it works out.

Good luck on your Cuba trip. It should be a lot of fun. We went to Prague, Warsaw, Berlin and Budapest right after the collapse of Russia and E. Germany. Very memorable!

Jim


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## Passepartout

Well, the check came! Finally. We are still waiting for my medical bill ($11,500ish) to be paid. The insurance carrier told us that they 'usually' have the patient just pay the provider directly then reimburse from insurance. In my case, sure, I COULD pay it, but since all my 'ready cash' from which to make this large a payout would come from IRA funds, it would create a fairly major tax consequence (we won't be itemizing this year due to the rejiggering of the tax tables) So at last report, the adjuster was going to her supervisor to get authorization to pay the hospital directly. Stay tuned.

So we have received what we are getting for the whole adventure. We submitted a claim for 7- of the 9 days of the river cruise we were unable to use, and the unused return flights. The total was $8300ish, and they paid us $7300ish. We got dinged $500 each because 'medical' is not an allowable reason for trip interruption.

In the end, for our $720 of insurance premiums, I got a new pacemaker, 9 days hospitalization, Angiography, CT scans of heart & lungs, Echocardiogram, upgraded room, Business class, flat bed and first class flights home accompanied by a rescue nurse Upgraded economy flights for my wife, Limo transfers in Germany and at home. We don't know what they paid for the flights and nurse, but estimated it at $20,000, unless something changes drastically, $11,500 to the hospital (in case you need heart surgery, I can recommend a great deal here) and $7300 reimbursement of prepaid travel expenses. So, a tad over $50,000.

That's about it. I figure I got a great checkup and the treatment probably bought me a few more years of time to annoy people on TUG.

Jim


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## Karen G

Passepartout said:


> We got dinged $500 each because 'medical' is not an allowable reason for trip interruption.


That seems really odd that "medical" is not an allowable reason for trip interruption, yet they paid all the expenses for medical costs!


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## Passepartout

Karen G said:


> That seems really odd that "medical" is not an allowable reason for trip interruption, yet they paid all the expenses for medical costs!


We thought so too, but compared to the 'nickel and dimeing' one gets from medical providers here this was refreshing. My medical bill was a half a page. No breakout for the room or individual tests or anything. Our Medicare Advantage would have charged me $300 a day for hospitalization here, yet in Germany it was included. Curiously, the second day there, the 'office lady' came to the room and said that the insurance wouldn't pay for my 'upgraded' room and said I could pay an extra 76 Euros a day or move to a 4 bed 'ward'. I opted to stay and pay, but when we turned in the bill, the insurance adjuster said, there was nothing in the bill about the room, so they would pay it.


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## Helaine

I look forward to being "annoyed" for many more years!


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## uop1497

@Jim,

If you do not mind, I like to ask a few questions before I buy to buy travel insurance for my coming trips ( 1/2019 and 4/2019), one insurance policy per trip.
a)  I was told  I can  buy the  trip interruption insurance with medical evacuation coverage any time until  right right before my trip start date. Not sure if it is true. Will it too late since I already done with my travel arrangement ( hotel + air ticket).
b) I will choose to include medical evacuation for each trip.  For your case, how can you choose to let insurance to pay the hospital directly. And did you have to purchase the new air ticket for you and your wife upfront and filling reimbursement late

Reading your post, I am not sure if the part you travel home accompany by travel nurse is cover under Medical evacuation or trip interruption. Can you please confirm it.

c) Do travel insurance accept pre exiting medical condition.

Please advise and thank you


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## Passepartout

uop1497 said:


> @Jim,
> 
> If you do not mind, I like to ask a few questions before I buy to buy travel insurance for my coming trips ( 1/2019 and 4/2019), one insurance policy per trip.
> a)  I was told  I can  buy the  trip interruption insurance with medical evacuation coverage any time until  right right before my trip start date. Not sure if it is true. Will it too late since I already done with my travel arrangement ( hotel + air ticket).
> b) I will choose to include medical evacuation for each trip.  For your case, how can you choose to let insurance to pay the hospital directly. And did you have to purchase the new air ticket for you and your wife upfront and filling reimbursement late
> 
> Reading your post, I am not sure if the part you travel home accompany by travel nurse is cover under Medical evacuation or trip interruption. Can you please confirm it.
> 
> c) Do travel insurance accept pre exiting medical condition.


No problem. That's why I've been so open about a REAL WORLD account of how it worked- at least in my case.
*a*) Yes, you can buy travel insurance right up to (at least) the time you pay the final payment. Maybe later- up until departure, it may vary by the insurance.  Skipping to your (*c*) pre-existing conditions are covered IF you buy the insurance soon after you make the FIRST down payment on the travel. Ours was within 2 weeks, but we ALWAYS buy the travel insurance within a day or two of making a deposit on a trip.
*b*)I am not sure how to get them to pay directly. Our insurance was PRIMARY- meaning we didn't have to turn the claim over to our other insurance first before the travel insurance paid, but they still made us pay the hospital first then be reimbursed. (I know, because we paid the hospital yesterday after much argument with the insurance carrier by both us AND the hospital) It was about $11,500 and had to be wire transferred in Euros.

Medical and evacuation and trip interruption were handled by separate claim companies. (a pain in the tush) Evacuation paid for our flights home and the rescue nurse and limos and all tips and baggage handling. We never saw a bill for any of that and don't know how much it cost. Trip interruption, we submitted a claim for 7-of the 9 day river cruise, the hotel where Paula stayed while I was in the hospital, meals, taxis the cancelled flights home that we had pre-paid. We had to show documentation that we actually had paid all the things we put in a claim for. That claim was about $8300. They disallowed $1000 of it, claiming that 'medical' was not one of the listed causes of trip interruption.

We also have another claim in to a different insurance company for cancellation of another trip we had planned and paid for to Italy 3 weeks ago and cancelled after we finally got home and my doctor thought it wouldn't be a good idea to get back on a plane to Europe so soon after this 'adventure'. That's covered under trip cancellation and we are expecting the check later this week for that one.

Jim


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## Passepartout

For those paying attention, the final checks from the insurance companies arrived 10/18/2018 from claims started in July. 3 1/2 months. We did get 'whole' to the tune of almost $15,000 for reimbursement of medical, 7/9ths of the river cruise, the unused flights home, and another trip we had planned to Italy and it's required flights that we canceled due to my doc not recommending any long flights so soon.

This is a wrap, as they say. We'll never leave the USA without travel insurance including pre-existing conditions.

Jim


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## WinniWoman

Passepartout said:


> For those paying attention, the final checks from the insurance companies arrived 10/18/2018 from claims started in July. 3 1/2 months. We did get 'whole' to the tune of almost $15,000 for reimbursement of medical, 7/9ths of the river cruise, the unused flights home, and another trip we had planned to Italy and it's required flights that we canceled due to my doc not recommending any long flights so soon.
> 
> This is a wrap, as they say. We'll never leave the USA without travel insurance including pre-existing conditions.
> 
> Jim




Fantastic, Jim! If we are ever able to travel abroad again, I am going to consult you regarding the travel insurance! Hope you are feeling much better now as well!


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## Passepartout

mpumilia said:


> Fantastic, Jim! If we are ever able to travel abroad again, I am going to consult you regarding the travel insurance! Hope you are feeling much better now as well!


Thanks. I don't know that I have any advice. Dealing with insurance companies and claims agents is frustrating. They try every kind of disputing and delaying and changing claims payers they can. I'm sure that Paula filing EVERY bit of information they asked for on her law office letterhead cut through a lot of their bureaucracy. But several things helped. Right off the bat, we notified them of the medical situation- the very day I was admitted, and we got a claim number right then. Then she wrote a timeline of what happened and when. The claims were handled by 3 different companies. One company, OnCall, covered the trip interruption and evacuation home. We have never seen a bill for that. Another company, Broadspire, handled the medical portion, and they kept shuffling us off to different adjusters and not returning calls and requiring us to pay the hospital bill upfront by bank transfer in Euros and acquiring proof of payment before they would reimburse us. Yet another company- because it was a different insurance policy- reimbursed us for the later cancelled trip.

As to feeling better, I didn't feel bad when we left, but that went downhill fairly fast. I'm confident that had I had my way and not gone to this hospital for a 'quick scan', I very likely would have been one of those 'so and so, was found dead of an apparent heart attack' things we all see. Once the heart stops, there is really no way to tell what causes it, and I was having major electrical problems within my heart and a pulse of 40 bpm when checked at the hospital. I feel very lucky and have resumed traveling and dog walking and all my normal activities. I feel that the care I got in Germany probably bought me several more years. It was my '71 year checkup and tuneup'.

In case anyone wants/needs some great cardiac care, I can't recommend Juliusspital Wurzburg highly enough. My bill was 1/2 page long. The care was state of the art, the facility was beautiful and modern. Many Americans come there for urgent and ongoing cardiac and stroke care for a small fraction of it's cost in the USA.

Jim


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## northwoodsgal

Uop1497, yes, you can get travel insurance if you have pre-existing conditions and made your first travel payment awhile ago.  I was able to get coverage for our recent trip to South Africa under those conditions through GeoBlue.  BUT, we have primary care already and had not made our LAST travel payment.  I skipped the trip cancellation/delay insurance but got good medical coverage.  The total cost for 3 weeks was around $200.  I would NEVER had thought about buying the coverage if it hadn't been for Jim's posts.  All went well, but with my husband's medical history, I was glad to have it just in case.


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