# [2006] SVO Resale: Yes you can requalify/retro [MERGED]



## duke

YES..YOU CAN REQUALIFY/ Retro A SVO RESALE (voluntary OR mandatory) WITH FULL BENEFITS INCLUDING: 1)Exchange, 2) StarOptions, 3) StarPoints, and 4) Elite Status!  

I had read the TUG svo advise and all the posts.  These need to be updated with correct info.  So, here is what I found out and got accomplished.

I found out that my calls to svo directly each time got differing answers.  So, I asked the Sales Director of one of the resorts to READ ME THE POLICY.  Here it is:  SVO will requalify a resale purchase with membership in the SVN network if the owner makes a purchase directly from the developer.  This is in the SVO policy manual.  There is no specific requirement on what resort or what week or how much the developer purchase must be.  As well, I found that there are specific forms the developer has to use to requalify the resale.

The idea here is that the developer wants to make a sale and if so they will requalify one of your resale weeks for each week purchased.  They do not have to be the same Price, StarOption or StarPoint value.

I had purchased several resale weeks at a Voluntary resort.  I then purchased the same number of weeks from the Developer.  I had all my resale weeks "retro" as if I had purchased from the developer.  My resale weeks now have StarOptions and can be exchanged, StarPoints for conversion, and I am in the Elite Program.

Here is the procedure I recommend:

1)  You need to first make the resale purchase and then have it recorded by SVO.  For Voluntary resorts this will NOT give you StarOptions, StarPoints, or Elite status.  For Mandatory resorts this will only give you ability to exchange.

2)  After SVO makes the entry you can check your ownership on MyStarCentral.com

3.  Contact a salesperson at the resort you want to purchase from the developer.  Make sure they agree that if you purchase from the developer they will "retro" your specific resale week with StarOptions, StarPoints, and Elite Status.  DO NOT SIGN THE CONTRACT WITHOUT THIS AGREEMENT IN WRITING.  It may be an addendum to your contract (not in my case) or, for me, they provide you with copies of the documents used by the original owner of the resale with your name to sign.  See next...

4.  The documents I was provided with were copies of the original 1)SVO Notification, 2) SVN Owner Membership Agreement, 3) StarPoints Disclosure Statement, 4) II Membership Application, and 5) SVN Elite Level Enrollment Form.  Again, these forms are for the RESALE and were copies that had been signed by the original owner with MY name and old contract number inserted.  You need to sign these at the same time as your Developer purchase.

I made my purchase over the phone and received the developer purchase documents in the mail.  I waited to sign until I had the documents to requalify my resales.  As well, the process was documented in e-mails.

I must say SVO, my salesperson, and the district manager had to approve the purchase and retro in advance.  They were very helpful, friendly, and made the process easy.

If you think about it, it is in SVO's advantage to do this so that you will make another direct purchase.

I had a great salesperson who made this all happen.  If you call and the saleperson can not get it done for you....call another.  I do not recommend calling SVO as they are not the one making the new sale.  Call a salesperson and find someone who has the time to help you.

Good luck and I hope this makes everyone look more positively at the value of Voluntary resales.




> this was posted in a different thread on Oct 11th 2007 but I thought it should be here./Bill4728 moderator
> 
> 
> 
> posted by Vacationtime
> The memo attached below purports to be Starwood's requalification / Retro procedure effective 6/15/07. I have no idea of its authenticity, but it does explain contradictory posts I have seen (and posted myself). According to this memo, a Hawaii or Caribbean purchase used to requalify another unit must be $40,000  $27,500 or more; a US Mainland or Mexico purchase of over $20,000   $15,000  (** see the next paragraph)  is sufficient for that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted by Vistana101 & FredM Posted ON MARCH 2010
> 
> A couple things to know:
> Starwood just lowered the Mainland price to $15,000 (from $20,000) to retro a resale.
> They are trying to take away SP as incentives to buy
> -----------------------
> Starwood lowered the Hawaii retro qualifying price to $27,500, from $40,000, as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> STARWOOD VACATION OWNERSHIP Number: 01.07
> Eff. Date: 6/15/07
> Revision Date:
> 
> 
> Resale Policy
> Transfer of SVN/SPG with Resale VOI
> All departments must adhere to the business rules of the Starwood Vacation Network to ensure that all owners are being treated equally.
> 
> Gift/Transfer VOI deed:
> • Owners who wish to transfer a VOI with SVN/SPG “without consideration” to immediate family members may do so at no cost. SVO will monitor as needed.
> 
> SVN/SPG Transfer:
> • Voluntary Resort - To maintain the value of the SVN as an incentive to purchase from SVO directly, Starwood Vacation Ownership will not allow the transfer or purchase of SVN or SPG benefits with the resale of a VOI at SVN voluntary resorts. Membership in the Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) or Vistana Plus (VTP) is a benefit unique to the individual ownership. Under the SVN Rules and the Owner Membership Agreement, a membership in SVN and or VTP and the Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), along with access to the SPG Conversion Program, cannot be transferred to a resale purchaser.
> • Mandatory Resort - At mandatory resorts, Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) membership must automatically transfer with ownership; however, access to SPG membership and ability to convert to Starpoints will be withheld. This means that the use of the SVN Resorts is available; however, under the SVN Rules and the Owner Membership Agreement, the Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), along with access to the SPG Starpoints Conversion Program, cannot be transferred to a resale purchaser. Resale may only be enrolled into the SPG Program by SVO as Preferred level.
> 
> SVN/SPG Retro:
> • SVN will enroll “resale” weeks into either SVN or VTP so long as the person owning the “resale” week purchases a new week of inventory directly from the developer.
> • For each new SVO interval purchased at or greater than the minimum price ($20k for US mainland & Mexico projects; and $40k for Hawaii and Caribbean projects), SVO will “retro” one SVN eligible resale week on a one to one basis into SVN, including SPG membership at no cost (at the original resale SVN level for the resale week).
> o If a new owner is purchasing a US mainland or Mexico VOI and wishes to retro one previously purchased eligible resale week into SVN/SPG, the new VOI purchase price must be at least $20k (regardless of the location the VOI is being purchased).
> o If a new owner is purchasing a Caribbean or Hawaii VOI and wishes to retro one previously purchased eligible resale week into SVN/SPG, the new VOI purchase price must be at least $40k (regardless of the location the VOI is being purchased).
> o Minimum purchase prices set are based on the product purchased NOT on the property from which they are purchased
> o *This is a one-for-one retro…for each resale week to be “retro’d”, a new developer VOI must be purchased (at or above the minimum purchase price) *
> 
> Document reviewed on 10.2.07kp/yw
> 
> 
> Robert
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it looks like the best way to get value for your money is to buy a Hawaii and/or Caribbean TS resale and then requalify them with the developer purchase of ~$20K from a US mainland & Mexico resort.  ( but IMHO, I'd always want to buy a Mandatory resort because of the much greater resale value)
> 
> Bill4728
Click to expand...


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## Henry M.

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Congratulations, Duke! This is good to know. Buy one resale, one developer and if you do the right paperwork both can count as if you had purchased directly from SVO. It costs a little more than buying strictly resale but the Elite status and Starpoints can be valuable in my experience.


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## DeniseM

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Great information!  Do you mind sharing the $$$ info. with us?  I'd like to know what you paid and where you bought.  Am I correct in understanding that you can only convert *one* resale week, per developer week?


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## plead.5th

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Do I need to buy the same size unit from the developer?  I own a 2 bedroom Vistana Resort, are they still selling through the developer and does Vistana Villages qualify as the same resort?


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## djp

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

do they have to be at the same resort....i.e resale desert oasis and develope desert oasis, or could it be resale desert oasis and developer kanaapali?


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## Henry M.

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

"There is no specific requirement on what resort or what week or how much the developer purchase must be"


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## sunami

*Attempting to qualify a resale with benefits*

Duke, thank you for such useful information. I just read your post the day before we planned to buy from the developer (I wish I had known earlier). 

But, armed with your info, we made it a condition of the purchase that the salesperson would help us qualify a future resale week with benefits.
He seemed familiar with the process and said he would do his best to help us with the request. The only difficulty is that we didn't own the resale week at the time of purchase.  

Now, I have purchased a resale week within 1 week of the developer purchase.  Hopefully it will go through quickly so that they can make good on their promise.

Will keep you posted.

Edwin


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## plead.5th

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Can someone refer me to their salesperson who was familiar with the process so that I can move forward and purchase another unit and get my Vistana registered.


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## plead.5th

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Duke or Sunami.

Thanks Again.


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## duke

*Re: Attempting to qualify a resale with benefits*



			
				sunami said:
			
		

> Duke, thank you for such useful information. I just read your post the day before we planned to buy from the developer (I wish I had known earlier).
> 
> But, armed with your info, we made it a condition of the purchase that the salesperson would help us qualify a future resale week with benefits.
> He seemed familiar with the process and said he would do his best to help us with the request. The only difficulty is that we didn't own the resale week at the time of purchase.
> 
> Now, I have purchased a resale week within 1 week of the developer purchase.  Hopefully it will go through quickly so that they can make good on their promise.
> 
> Will keep you posted.
> 
> Edwin



Edwin:
You say you read my post the day before you made your purchase from the Developer.  Since my post was just a couple of days ago you should still have time to RESCIND your Developer purchase.  Here is why I recommend you immediately cancel your purchase.

1)  It will take a couple of months for your escrow on the resale to close.
2)  It will take up to a month for SVO to record your resale purchase into the SVO system.
3)  Because the salesperson said they will try and help you have the resale requalified does not mean it can be done.

Please read my original post and follow the procedure exactly or your MAY not be able to get this done.  Do not rely on what you are told. GET IT IN WRITING.

I congratulate you on your purchase and know you will enjoy the use but caution anyone on believing something can be done without having a written contract.

Duke


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## duke

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				plead.5th said:
			
		

> Can someone refer me to their salesperson who was familiar with the process so that I can move forward and purchase another unit and get my Vistana registered.



Plead.5th:

PM me with your contact info and I will forward it to someone who would be glad to get this done.

Again, make sure you have the Resale purchase completed and recorded in advance.

Duke


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## plead.5th

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Duke,

I don't really know what a PM is but my email address is

robm325@msn.com

Thanks Again for the info and the contact.


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## sunami

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Duke, 
Thanks for the advice. I did get it in writing in our contract that the salesperson would help convert the resale. We are moving quickly on closing escrow, should be closed within another week.
I realize it will take some time for SVO to record the transfer, I am hoping to speed it along as I read in another post that I can call the central office once the deed is recorded to alert them to the sale.

The salesperson I spoke with said to keep him posted along the way; like I said, I will let you know.

Edwin


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## Bill4728

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

For more info on Starwood Vacation Ownership -SVO and Starwood Vacation Network -SVN,  read the TUG advice article  on the TUG advice page  LINK


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## duke

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Seems this strategy has gotten the attention of SVO.  They have recently issued a memo to salespersons:  The policy is still in effect that the requalification of resales can be done, however you must purchase an Annual for each resale Annual.  You can purchase an EOY for each resale EOY.
All the best!


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## plead.5th

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Duke,

Nobody has contacted me yet.


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## sunami

*YES - Qualified as a direct sale!*

Just an update to all,
We finally got notification that our resale week was requalified as a direct sale, thus eligible for starpoints, 3* elite status and all the associated perks.

I have to agree with Duke that a resale should be purchased beforehand and recorded in the system, prior to buying from the developer.  Though we were able to do it afterwards, it was touch and go for a while. 

Anyhow, if anyone is interested in purchasing direct from WKORV-N, I can give you the name of our salesperson, who was instrumental at getting our resale qualified.

Ed


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## duke

*Re: YES - Qualified as a direct sale!*



			
				sunami said:
			
		

> Just an update to all,
> We finally got notification that our resale week was requalified as a direct sale, thus eligible for starpoints, 3* elite status and all the associated perks.
> 
> I have to agree with Duke that a resale should be purchased beforehand and recorded in the system, prior to buying from the developer.  Though we were able to do it afterwards, it was touch and go for a while.
> 
> Anyhow, if anyone is interested in purchasing direct from WKORV-N, I can give you the name of our salesperson, who was instrumental at getting our resale qualified.
> 
> Ed



Ed:

Please post the steps you went through and the documents signed to requalify.  I would like to compare to my process.  What was the resale you had purchased also?

Thanks,
Duke


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## sunami

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

These are the steps that I have taken thus far.  Keep in mind that I bought developer week first, which I would not recommend.

During the purchase from the developer, I specified that I would be purchasing a resale week, and I wanted it requalified for all the perks. After some hemming and hawing, the sales manager finally agreed to put it in the contract. To keep it reasonable, he said I would have to purchase the resale within 30 days.  The salesperson and team manager had to confer with the "sales manager" to ensure that this had a reasonable chance of happening.

I purchased the very next day, a resale week at Vistana Villages, a 2BR in Platinum season, worth 81k staroptions.  I received a copy of the old deed and faxed it to my salesperson to get the contract number so he could begin the paperwork

I was in touch with the resale company frequently, asking them to close ASAP.  I closed in 12 days, and had the deed recorded in 16 days.  By 22 days after the purchase, I had it transfered to the SVO headquarters.

All the while, I was in contact with my salesperson to keep them apprised of the situation.  At the end, it almost did not happen, but the salesperson said he went to bat for us, and assured that it would go through. I don't know in particular who he had to talk to or what paperwork he had to do.

I'm interested in hearing if your process differed.

Ed


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## armlem2

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

I have spoken to reps at Desert Oasis and PGA this week about buying 
the cheapest EOY and getting the starpoints and staroptions reassigned to a Sheraton Broadway that I am in the process of closing on.  Both were very familiar with the process and very willing to put it in contract.  The only thing other thing, I did find out was that if you try to do it with a platinum week from Desert Oasis you need to be careful.  Evidently, when Sheraton took over, some the units were classified as gold  and others as platinum for points and options, so that you need to verify whether or not you get 148100 or 81000 options on reassignment, most get trated as gold for 81000 regardless of current season.  They can tell by original contract number or possibly unit and week number, just more work.


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## duke

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				sunami said:
			
		

> During the purchase from the developer, I specified that I would be purchasing a resale week, and I wanted it requalified for all the perks. After some hemming and hawing, the sales manager finally agreed to put it in the contract.
> Ed



Ed:

What was actually written in the contract?  Can you quote the words?

Duke


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## taipan

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

In this scenarion, how would the conversion to starpoints work:

The rule is no consecutive year conversions to starpoints.  I assume you couldn't convert each timeshare (resale + developer) separately over two consecutive years?  

You would probably have to do one or both at the same time and then wait two years to do this again.

TIA,

George


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## sunami

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				duke said:
			
		

> Ed:
> 
> What was actually written in the contract?  Can you quote the words?
> 
> Duke


Sorry for the delay in responding, didn't see your message until recently.

The words written were " Will attempt to requalify a resale week purchased within 30 days for elite status and starpoint conversion. "

I am still assuming that it went through, but to be honest, I don't know how I can tell it was officially done.

Do you get notification that you are now 3* elite?

Ed


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## duke

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				sunami said:
			
		

> Sorry for the delay in responding, didn't see your message until recently.
> 
> The words written were " Will attempt to requalify a resale week purchased within 30 days for elite status and starpoint conversion. "
> 
> I am still assuming that it went through, but to be honest, I don't know how I can tell it was officially done.
> 
> Do you get notification that you are now 3* elite?
> 
> Ed



Hi Ed:

Actually, I was requalified as 4* since I had two resales.

In my case, there was paperwork for the Elite status that was filled out during my Developer purchase transaction.  This is a form that is filled out to notify SVO of the new Elite status and it iw mentioned in my first post.  Also, there were forms that were filled out for the requalification of my resales that actually were the original sale forms with my name on it.

You can easily find out your status by logging onto www.mystarcentral.com with your Resale contract numbers.  If the "what I own" section shows StarOptions and StarPoints then your resale has been requlaified.

You can also find out about your Elite status by calling member services directly.

Please post what finally happened.

All the best,
Duke


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## jmohatt

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

To All -

Has anyone requalified a "SHERATON DESERT OASIS" week and know what their Starwood point values (StarOption & StarPoint) ?  I am looking at a 2-bdrm L/O on the resale market that I would want to requalify, but do not have any idea what its point values would be.  It was formally the Embassy Vacation Resort so this unit was not sold as a SVO originally and was never assigned a SVO point value.  How will this be handled by Starwood on the requalify?  Does anyone know?  I may just have to call a salesman at the resort.  The 2-bdrm I want to buy is a floating week good from week 1-52 so I would think it would be the same as the Platinum weeks currently being sold.

Thanks for the help -
Jon in AZ


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## vfollett

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Hi Duke--

This is great news about requalifying an SVO sale...not something you hear about at all!

While I understand all of what you said, there is one more part of requalifying that is very important.  When they requalify your resale resort, do they also then treat it as your "home resort", which will then get you the very real and important ability to reserve 12 months in advance, as opposed to the usual 8 months in advance for non-home resort owners?

An example would be that I had bought Westin Kaanapali in the resale market, then buy a unit anywhere from the developer, then ask the developer to requalify my Westin Kaanapali with full benefits, including designation as a HOME RESORT, allowing me to reserve at Westin Kaanapali 12 months in advance?

Thanks so much for your help!


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## grgs

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				vfollett said:
			
		

> An example would be that I had bought Westin Kaanapali in the resale market, then buy a unit anywhere from the developer, then ask the developer to requalify my Westin Kaanapali with full benefits, including designation as a HOME RESORT, allowing me to reserve at Westin Kaanapali 12 months in advance?



Even if you didn't get it requalified you would still have the owner's preference at from 12-8 months out.  If you own that resort, you always have the right to reserve is at 12 months--even if you bought it resale.

Glorian


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## seenett

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				jmohatt said:
			
		

> To All -
> 
> Has anyone requalified a "SHERATON DESERT OASIS" week and know what their Starwood point values (StarOption & StarPoint) ?  I am looking at a 2-bdrm L/O on the resale market that I would want to requalify, but do not have any idea what its point values would be.  It was formally the Embassy Vacation Resort so this unit was not sold as a SVO originally and was never assigned a SVO point value.  How will this be handled by Starwood on the requalify?  Does anyone know?  I may just have to call a salesman at the resort.  The 2-bdrm I want to buy is a floating week good from week 1-52 so I would think it would be the same as the Platinum weeks currently being sold.
> 
> Thanks for the help -
> Jon in AZ



I believe that pre-SVO sales, sold as year round float 1-52, are considered "gold" by Starwood.  Seems they are splitting the difference between Platinum and Silver.  See the StarPoint chart.


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## grgs

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				seenett said:
			
		

> I believe that pre-SVO sales, sold as year round float 1-52, are considered "gold" by Starwood.  Seems they are splitting the difference between Platinum and Silver.  See the StarPoint chart.



That's what I guessed they would do.  It would be nice if that could be confirmed officially.

Glorian


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## bender18

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

I am thinking of buying at Vistana Village so I just wanted to know if I buy Resale can I still get SVN and II?  Also if I buy an additional week can I still requalify as a direct Sale or have the change the policy?

Thanks.

BTW since this is my first post to TUG BBS... http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/images/smilies/wave.gif
  A Big Hello....


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## DeniseM

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				bender18 said:
			
		

> I am thinking of buying at Vistana Village so I just wanted to know if I buy Resale can I still get SVN and II?  Also if I buy an additional week can I still requalify as a direct Sale or have the change the policy?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> BTW since this is my first post to TUG BBS... http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/images/smilies/wave.gif
> A Big Hello....



Vistana Villages is a mandatory resort - in other words, resales are automatically included in the SVN and you can do external exchanges anyway, whether or not you're in the SVN.  The only thing you don't get with an SVN Mandatory resale, is  the option to convert to Starpoints, which isn't a good value anyway.


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## DeniseM

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				vfollett said:
			
		

> Hi Duke--
> 
> This is great news about requalifying an SVO sale...not something you hear about at all!
> 
> While I understand all of what you said, there is one more part of requalifying that is very important.  When they requalify your resale resort, do they also then treat it as your "home resort", which will then get you the very real and important ability to reserve 12 months in advance, as opposed to the usual 8 months in advance for non-home resort owners?
> 
> An example would be that I had bought Westin Kaanapali in the resale market, then buy a unit anywhere from the developer, then ask the developer to requalify my Westin Kaanapali with full benefits, including designation as a HOME RESORT, allowing me to reserve at Westin Kaanapali 12 months in advance?
> 
> Thanks so much for your help!



You don't have to requalify a WKORV week - it's a mandatory resort and SVN membership is included on a resale.  And with ANY Starwood resale, owners can reserve at 12 mos. out.  Doesn't matter that you bought resale.


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## duke

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				DeniseM said:
			
		

> You don't have to requalify a WKORV week - it's a mandatory resort and SVN membership is included on a resale.  And with ANY Starwood resale, owners can reserve at 12 mos. out.  Doesn't matter that you bought resale.




If you do requalify a mandatory resort like WKORV you will 1) have StarPoints and 2) Elite status.
Duke


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## nodge

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				jmohatt said:
			
		

> To All -
> 
> Has anyone requalified a "SHERATON DESERT OASIS" week and know what their Starwood point values (StarOption & StarPoint) ?  I am looking at a 2-bdrm L/O on the resale market that I would want to requalify, but do not have any idea what its point values would be.  It was formally the Embassy Vacation Resort so this unit was not sold as a SVO originally and was never assigned a SVO point value.  How will this be handled by Starwood on the requalify?  Does anyone know?  I may just have to call a salesman at the resort.  The 2-bdrm I want to buy is a floating week good from week 1-52 so I would think it would be the same as the Platinum weeks currently being sold.
> 
> Thanks for the help -
> Jon in AZ



Starwood just confirmed the “requalification” into the Starwood Vacation Network (“SVN”) of my pre-Starwood (Phase I) Sheraton Desert Oasis (“SDO”) 2-Bdrm Lock-Off year round float week 1-52  that I purchased re-sale.  (Thanks Duke!).   As noted by Seenett (above), it was “requalified” as a “Gold” unit (81,000 StarOptions / 44,000 StarPoints).

Starwood’s sales staff was all over the map on this issue during the purchase of the corresponding developer week, which I purchased via the phone and mail.  I eventually learned that Starwood assigned every interval unit at SDO, including pre-Starwood sold units, a StarOption and a StarPoint value when it took over the development.  If you know the contract number for a particular interval unit, I was told that any salesperson at any SVO property can look-up the StarOption & StarPoint values assigned for that unit.  I was also told that these pre-assigned values are not negotiable.  

My biggest concern with bringing my SDO unit into SVN at the 81,000 StarOptions level was whether I could still book a week in a 2 bedroom L/O unit at SDO during platinum season (which “costs” 148,100 StarOptions).  I was told that StarOptions apply only for exchanges into other Starwood Vacation Ownership (SVO) properties (and/or exchanges into a different season at your home property), so I could still book a week in a 2 bedroom L/O unit during platinum season at SDO under the original SDO contract terms. 

Hope this helps.  - Nodge


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## duke

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				nodge said:
			
		

> Starwood just confirmed the “requalification” into the Starwood Vacation Network (“SVN”) of my pre-Starwood (Phase I) Sheraton Desert Oasis (“SDO”) 2-Bdrm Lock-Off year round float week 1-52  that I purchased re-sale.  (Thanks Duke!).



Nodge,
Congrats!  What developer unit did you purchase?  What was the process to requalify?  How did SVO document your requalification?
Duke


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## nodge

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				duke said:
			
		

> Nodge,
> Congrats!  What developer unit did you purchase?  What was the process to requalify?  How did SVO document your requalification?
> Duke



Duke,

Our new developer unit is at the Westin Kierland.  (We have family in Scottsdale. Like the fact that the Westin Kierland is a “mandatory” resort that is an easy and cheap flight from home.  It has relatively low maintenance fees when compared to other top tier SVO properties.  It is in a stable jurisdiction with well established and enforceable timeshare ownership laws (i.e. fee simple ownership instead of the relatively new “renewable trust” offered in Cancun).  Also, being in the middle of a suburban desert, it will not likely get hit by a hurricane or other natural disaster.)

The process to requalify the SDO unit was as follows:

My salesperson tracked down internally the necessary approvals and then confirmed to me via email that my SDO would be “requalified” into SVN at 81,000 StarOptions / 44,000 StarPoints.  She then mailed me the necessary purchase and sale documents for the developer unit, which were completely silent about this requalification issue.  

Accordingly, I printed out her email and attached it to the purchase and sale agreement. In the section of the agreement that lists all of the documents that are part of the agreement (Section 4, “Your Acknowledgment”),  I hand wrote in a reference to the e-mail.  Specifically, I wrote “(g)  E-mail dated [date redacted] from [SVO salesperson’s name redacted] (copy attached).”

I also hand wrote in the following language at the end of the agreement:

“19. Contract No. [redacted] (Sheraton Desert Oasis) will be brought into SVN (81,000 StarOptions) per [SVO Salesperson’s name redacted] E-mail dated [date redacted]”.

I then signed the agreement and mailed it back to SVO.  SVO initially balked at my modifications to the agreement, and told me that I would have to re-sign everything without those terms added.  They express mailed me a new agreement to sign.  However, shortly thereafter, I received an SVO signed copy of my original agreement that included the hand written additions.  In other words, SVO signed off on my modifications to the Westin Kierland purchase and sale agreement that specifically listed the requalification of my SDO unit as a term of the new developer week purchase.

About a week later, I received another express mail from SVO with paperwork associated with requalifying my SDO property.  It included the original SVN enrollment paperwork dated the day the original owners bought the property in 1998.  Their names had been crossed out and my name was written in.  I signed it and mailed it back to SVO, and my SDO was “requalified.”

Just for fun, armed with my 81,000 staroptions I called SVN to see if I could use ‘em to get into the Westin Maui (WKORV) next February.  Even though I didn’t call at the crack of dawn 8 months out, they had availability!   Very cool.

-Nodge


----------



## saluki

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*

Way to work 'em, nodge!

Did you buy a Premium 1BR Platinum Season or 2BR Gold Season @ Kierland? Do you mind telling us the price?


----------



## nodge

*Re: SVO Resale:  Yes you can requalify as direct sale*



			
				saluki said:
			
		

> Did you buy a Premium 1BR Platinum Season or 2BR Gold Season @ Kierland? Do you mind telling us the price?



Saluki,

The specific details of my developer week purchase can’t help folks much since inventory changes regularly.

I should note that despite the Starwood internal memo floating around (reported earlier in this thread) that apparently requires an annual developer week purchase in order to requalify an annual resale, the folks at Westin Kierland repeatedly told me that ANY developer purchase is sufficient to requalify an annual resale.  Accordingly, the purchase of a cheap every-other-year (EOY) developer week is sufficient to requalify an annual platinum resale week (at least if the developer week is purchased from the salespeople at Kierland).

To save folks a phone call, I just called the Westin Keirland to inquire about its current (as of July 17, 2006) inventory and pricing.  Here is what they told me.

The following inventory is currently available:

Platinum Season:  Nothing available (They may have one one-bedroom premium (big unit – 81,000 StarOptions) available for $22,900 (annual usage), but the sales rep didn’t know for sure at the time of the call and wasn’t willing to find out without me submitting a written offer for it).

Gold Season:   
2-Bedroom L/O (81,000 StarOptions) ($22,400-Annual usage or $14,995-EOY usage) (3 units available)
1-Bedroom deluxe (small unit – 37,000 StarOptions) ($13,995-Annual usage or $9495-EOY usage)

Silver Season:
2-Bedroom L/O (56,300 StarOptions) ($15,400-Annual usage or $10,495-EOY usage)
1-Bedroom Premium (large unit – 30,500 StarOptions) ($11,995-Annual usage or $8195-EOY usage)

If you purchase an EOY unit, you have a year to purchase the other half at a discounted price.  The discounted price for the second half would be the difference between the above-noted annual usage price and the price paid for the EOY usage.  However, the second purchase is subject to having inventory available at that time, which could be unlikely in most categories if you actually waited a year to make the second purchase.   

The sales reps I spoke with confirmed that purchasing the second half would entitle a second resale to be brought into the SVN.  If you want to go this route, however, I strongly suggest getting all of this IN WRITING at the time of purchasing the FIRST developer unit.  I’ve learned that what sales reps promise can differ significantly from what appears on the final paperwork.

Hope this helps.  -Nodge


----------



## formerhater

Will all this work for existing owners who then make a resale purchase and requilify it by making a developer purchase?  Just curious...


----------



## duke

formerhater said:
			
		

> Will all this work for existing owners who then make a resale purchase and requilify it by making a developer purchase?  Just curious...



Yes, you need to make the resale purchase first then a new developer purchase.


----------



## conkyjoe

*Reselling the DEV week after retro week qualified*

Greetings,

Are there any contract pre-conditions which revert a "retro-ed" week back into a "non-qualifing StarPoints week", if at a later date the DEV week were to be sold?   

Gratefully,


----------



## nodge

Conkyjoe,

Both my developer week purchase paperwork AND my “requal” week paperwork are silent about what happens to my “requaled” week’s SVN status if I sell my corresponding developer week.  

Since you apparently haven’t bought your resale week yet, and since it can take several months to close on a resale, I suggest getting an SVO salesperson on-board now (with lots of emails back and forth documenting your intentions) so that there are no surprises as SVO “interprets” this policy down the road.  

-Nodge


----------



## conkyjoe

*Two Bedroom LO question...*

Hmm,

If  I had two resale weeks (1BR from x and 1BR Premium from y), then bought a 2BD LO dev week, could both 1BD resale weeks be "retro'ed" since a 2BR LO could be considered two seperate weeks? 

Just curious...

Gratefully,


----------



## jerseygirl

I think you'd have to buy your 2-BR lockoff one EOY at a time.  That's what they told me a couple of years ago -- not sure if the rules are still the same.


----------



## Bill4728

conkyjoe said:
			
		

> Hmm,
> 
> If  I had two resale weeks (1BR from x and 1BR Premium from y), then bought a 2BD LO dev week, could both 1BD resale weeks be "retro'ed" since a 2BR LO could be considered two seperate weeks?
> 
> Just curious...
> 
> Gratefully,



Nice try but my guess would be NO. If you bought 2 resale weeks (any size) they would each need a developer week to allow "requalify" (also any size)
Note the sizes do not need to match, a 2 bd resale can be requalified with a studio developer purchase.


----------



## Drageamon

Hi people,

I have just bought a resale week at Sheraton Vistana Resort. I have been told by Starwood that it cannot be requalified because it is a voluntary resort. From what I can gather from you guys is that if I purchase a developers week then I can requalify my resale week? Is this correct because this is not what Starwood are telling me.

Thanks
Kelly


----------



## Bill4728

If you purchase a developer week (anywhere in the SVN system) and ask that they "requalify" your resale week at Vistana Resort as part of the deal, Starwood has told several people on this board, that you CAN do this. It doesn't matter if the resort is a mandatory resort or not.


----------



## jerseygirl

Did you buy Lakes or Cascades?


----------



## msweaver

Drageamon said:
			
		

> Hi people,
> 
> I have just bought a resale week at Sheraton Vistana Resort. I have been told by Starwood that it cannot be requalified because it is a voluntary resort. From what I can gather from you guys is that if I purchase a developers week then I can requalify my resale week? Is this correct because this is not what Starwood are telling me.



The answer depends.  Some resorts will requalify other SVN resort weeks, although I tried to do this with a developer purchase at Kierland and requalify my Mountain Vaist week and they would not do it.  I would check with the sales folks at the resort you're interested in.


----------



## nodge

msweaver said:
			
		

> The answer depends.  Some resorts will requalify other SVN resort weeks, although I tried to do this with a developer purchase at Kierland and requalify my Mountain Vaist week and they would not do it.  I would check with the sales folks at the resort you're interested in.



MSWeaver,

I had no problem requalifying my Sheraton Desert Oasis resale with the purchase of a developer week from Kierland earlier this year. It's possible, but I doubt SVO has recently rescinded this policy. 

Did Kierland deny your requal request over the phone, or were you face-to-face with a salesperson in Kierland at the time?

During my initial searching (all via phone calls to the various SVO properties), I found salespeople all over the map on this issue.  The salesperson that I spoke with at Vistana Villages told me that requalifying a resale could NEVER be done.  He was also extremely pompous and arrogant when telling me this, which I found downright offensive.  The salesperson I spoke with at Westin Mission Hills told me it could be done, but gave me incorrect information as to how many staroptions, etc. my resale would qualify for.  At Kierland, I was lucky enough to find a salesperson that was both helpful and knowledgeable about this issue.  SHE spearheaded the internal approvals and made it happen.

I suspect folks that are striking out with Starwood are just speaking with new, lazy, or misinformed salespeople. Alternatively, if you've been CALLING salespeople, they may just not be ALLOWED to sell a timeshare to you over the phone based on your specific state's (or your case “district’s”) timeshare sales laws.  For example, upon further questioning, the guy in Vistana Villages eventually told me that since I was in Oregon, he wasn't allowed to sell to me over the phone.  He was really just using the "never been done" argument to get me off the phone.  Since he was precluded by law from selling to me in Oregon, and since I wasn’t willing to fly to Orlando to meet with him, I was wasting his time and he gave me the brush-off.

Accordingly, if you really want to requalify a resale, it CAN be done.  Find another salesperson.  

If you still strike out and still want to pursue requalification of your resale, send me a Private Message and I'll give you the name and phone number of my SVO sales agent at Kierland.  If SHE says that requals can no longer be done, THEN you can believe it.  

-Nodge


----------



## myip

After 4 weeks struggling of getting the valid documentations, I finally got the correct contract and retr'd doc.  The key is getting a knowledgable saleperson.


----------



## ssharpey

*Deleted*

_You have posted this in a number of locations.  Please review the rules for posting on these boards.  Duplicate postings are not allowed._


----------



## myip

*How long?*

How long does it take before your mystarcentral shows your resales  is  in SVN network?


----------



## vic714

myip said:
			
		

> How long does it take before your mystarcentral shows your resales  is  in SVN network?



My WMH resale took about a week after it closed. I did have to call the Starwood to confirm that they rec'd the updated title.

Victor


----------



## ssharpey

*Staroption points*

If already bought a resale week from the VV worth 81,000 staroption points and then went to the developer at VV and bought another week based on them retro my prior resale week would I then have a total of 162,000 staroption points to use each year?


----------



## ssharpey

*Hello*

Does anybody know how much a 2br -81,000 SO at Vistana Villages would sell for from the developer?


----------



## nodge

Hi ssharpey,

Post #9 on the following thread reports the current developer pricing for Vistana Villages.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33436

It reports that the developer sells a 2 bedroom at Vistana Villages valued at 81,000 StarOptions for $22,900 for annual usage and $14,900 for every-other-year (EOY) usage.

But a larger issue arises from your earlier post.  Vistana Villages is a MANDATORY resort, meaning StarOptions (SVN Internal Exchange Currency) automatically transfer to the purchaser on resale.  You do not have to buy a developer unit to “requal” a Vistana Villages resale if all you want are the resale’s StarOptions.  In other words, if you bought two Vistana Villages resale and each one were worth 81,000 StarOptions, you would have a total of 162,000 StarOptions even without buying anything from the developer.

However, requalifying a resale purchase of a mandatory resort like Vistana Villages will give you other, arguably less valuable, benefits.  Namely, 1) your resale’s StarOptions will be used in the calculation of elite status; 2) you’ll be able to convert your resale Vistana Villages into StarPOINTS (hotel points – also known as SPG Points); 3) You are given automatic "gold" status in SPG; and 4) you’ll be able to combine your StarOptions to make a single reservation.  For example, you can book a 2 bedroom lock-off at WKORV for 148,100 StarOptions.  Otherwise, to do the same thing with re-sale StarOptions you’d be forced to book a large 1 bedroom unit for 81,000 StarOptions using one of your VV’s StarOptions and then separately book the studio for 67,100 StarOptions using your second VV’s StarOptions.  You would then hope that Starwood would honor your “request” to make them adjoining when you get there. 

Many Starwood Tuggers do not think requalifying a mandatory resort like Vistana Villages just to obtain these four benefits justifies paying the inflated price of a developer purchase.  

If any of this is confusing to you, I suggest you read Seenett’s awesome and recently updated overview of Starwood Vacation Network to get up to speed on these issues before you part with any cash, especially to a developer.

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm

Good Luck!
-nodge


----------



## ssharpey

*2 Seperate VV weeks*

Thanks Nodge-

If I had 2 resale weeks worth 81K each would I be able to book (2) 1br at WKOR?


----------



## nodge

ssharpey,

Yes. Subject to availability at WKORV, if you owned two weeks at a mandatory resort like Vistana Villages that you purchased resale, and each week was valued at 81,000 StarOptions, you would have enough StarOptions to book two large 1 bedroom units at WKORV since they "cost" 81,000 StarOptions each.

Since WKORV would not be your "home resort," the soonest you could book WKORV would be 8 months before your planned arrival date. 

In contrast, if you purchased a voluntary resort (like Vistana RESORT) resale, and you didn't requalify it by also purchasing another unit from the developer, you would not have any StarOptions to exchange within SVN.

-nodge


----------



## Denise L

nodge said:
			
		

> Since WKORV would not be your "home resort," the soonest you could book WKORV would be 9 months before your planned arrival date.



Just wanted to clarify that you book at resorts other than your home resort at *8 months* out  .


----------



## nodge

Right 8 months out.  Just fixed it above.  Sorry for the typo -nodge


----------



## nodge

*Vistana Villages Update*

The newest phase of Vistana Villages, called the "Amelia" phase, appears to be a voluntary SVN resort.  The original and "key west" phases of Vistana Villages still appear to be mandatory SVN resorts.  

Please see this link for info on which phases of which resorts are "voluntary" resorts as Starwood appears to have recently allowed different phases within the same resort to have different SVN status. 

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35399

-Nodge


----------



## myip

> Starwood Voluntary Resorts in SVN
> 
> CAS – Sheraton Vistana Resort – Cascades Section
> LKS – Sheraton Vistana Resort – Lakes Section
> LST - Sheraton Lakeside Terrace
> PGA – Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort
> WMH – Westin Mission Hills
> SMV – Sheraton Mountain Vista
> SDO – Sheraton Desert Oasis
> SBP – Sheraton Broadway Plantation
> CAN – Westin Lagunamar (Cancun)
> POR – Princeville Ocean Resort (Kauai)
> BV – Westin St. John – Bay Vista Section
> AR – “Amelia Resort” (listed as being located at Vistana Village’s address with an “estimated completion date for Phase 1 [of] June, 2007.”
> 
> Starwood Mandatory Resorts in SVN
> 
> By elimination, the following remaining resorts identified as SVN resorts in Document R-14 must be “mandatory” resorts that are not subject to SVN Document R-14’s “voluntary” membership provisions:
> 
> Vistana Villages – Original “Bella” Phase
> Vistana Villages - Key West Phase
> Westin St. John – Original Phase referred to in Document R-14 simply as “Westin St. John.”
> Harborside Resort Phases I and II
> Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas
> Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas North
> Westin Kierland Villas


Don't want to loose this info.


----------



## pointsjunkie

*requal*

hi i am NEW TO TUG, I READ THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO REQUALIFY YOUR RESALE, WHICH IS GREAT. WHICH RESORT ARE THE SALES PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH THIS PROCEDURE. I WILL BE BUYING A RESALE AND THEN A DEVELOPER PROPERTY BUT I WANT THIS TO GO SMOOTHLY. PLEASE TELL ME TO I TALK TO SOMEONE IN KIERLAND,VV OR WHERE? :


----------



## pointsjunkie

*Missing Info*

How Do I Get The Info About What I Own And Where I Am From Underneath My Username? Help!!!!


----------



## saluki

pointsjunkie said:


> How Do I Get The Info About What I Own And Where I Am From Underneath My Username? Help!!!!



Go to "User CP" in the upper left of the screen. You may need to join TUG to use this function, not sure. Either way, I would encourage you to spend the minimal fee to join TUG.


----------



## pointsjunkie

*requal*

thanks for the info, i was able to update my TUG account. can someone please guide me : who do i speak with to get a requal? i want to make the procedure as easy as possible. is the person at VV or keirland? has anyone heard any info on the pre-sales for aruba? los cabos or the new colorado
of the palm springs? are the new ones going to be mandatory or voluntary?


----------



## duke

pointsjunkie said:


> can someone please guide me : who do i speak with to get a requal?



What developer resort, unit type, and season are you planning on buying?


----------



## pointsjunkie

*requal*

I am probably going to buy a resale in hawaii and buy a new one in aruba.i will be doing this by phone so who do i speak with VV or Kierland? i want to requal the hawaii.


----------



## Bill4728

pointjunkie said:
			
		

> are the new ones (resorts) going to be mandatory or voluntary


From everything I've heard all the new resorts are going to be voluntary.


> I am probably going to buy a resale in hawaii and buy a new one in aruba.i will be doing this by phone so who do i speak with VV or Kierland? i want to requal the hawaii.


If you buy from the developer in Arbura, they will take care of requalifing your resale. No need to speak to anyone at VVor Kierland.

PS: The people who benifit most from requalifing are those people who have bought a resale at a voluntary resort. It is debatable if requalifing a mandatory resale is worth it. (unless you just have to buy from starwood at one of their new resorts)


----------



## Henry M.

Requalifying a mandatory resort is useful if that enables you to get to Starwood Elite levels. It also gives you the ability to combine StarOptions when reserving larger or more expensive units at other SVN resorts. Furthermore, it gives you the ability to convert to Starpoints. Some say the latter is not the best use of your StarOptions (you should rent out your unit if you can't use it), but it is nice to have the flexibility and it is better than losing them if you don't want to go through the hassle of renting.


----------



## duke

emuyshondt said:


> Requalifying a mandatory resort is useful if that enables you to get to Starwood Elite levels. It also gives you the ability to combine StarOptions when reserving larger or more expensive units at other SVN resorts.



Very true and very valuable !!

Please, Please, Please, make sure that you reread post 1 and do not sign anything until you have the 4 RETRO documents in hand regarding the resale.

And, It's less expensive (and a better deal) to buy and requalify a Voluntary resort.


----------



## pointsjunkie

*requal*

let me get this straight---- if i bought at desert oasis from an owner who did not belong to svn i would then be able to requalify that resort with all the benefits, staroptions,II ,starpoints, and elite status? or at any other voluntary resort? thanks for all the imput.


----------



## Transit

duke said:


> YES..YOU CAN REQUALIFY
> 
> I found out that my calls to svo directly each time got differing answers.  So, I asked the Sales Director of one of the resorts to READ ME THE POLICY.  Here it is:  SVO will requalify a resale purchase with membership in the SVN network if the owner makes a purchase directly from the developer.  This is in the SVO policy manual.  There is no specific requirement on what resort or what week or how much the developer purchase must be.


  I understand the procedure you've taken to get your resales requalified.It seems that this may be the only route that actually works.I would like to know if an upgrade such as 2bed to a 2bed L/O would count as a developer purchase towards requalifing a resale.


----------



## myip

Transit said:


> I understand the procedure you've taken to get your resales requalified.It seems that this may be the only route that actually works.I would like to know if an upgrade such as 2bed to a 2bed L/O would count as a developer purchase towards requalifing a resale.


No... If you brought a 2 bedroom resales and use it for upgrade.  They won't allow you to do it since the original unit is a resale.


----------



## Transit

The original 2 bed was a developer purchase .I'm talking about upgading that to a  bedroom L/O .Would this count as a developer sale enough to requalify a resale unit


----------



## duke

*A report on a recent requal....*

Additional Requal info and experience in this thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43598


----------



## myip

*Another method*

Another way to get staroptions.



> There is another way, one that we just did. First, what I am about to tell you we considered a luxury decision. Second, since we did this just to get to 5*, SVO may have treated us differently since we were 4* to begin with. We needed (wanted) 123850 Options to get there. In looking at the "duke" model he got 121000 and that would have left us short (see his sticky).
> 
> We called SVO and the alternative was buy 3br VV for 38K -139000 Options(not going to happen), then I mentioned "resale".
> 
> It turns out SVO does sell resale (you have to ask), focusing mostly on Vistana Resort. After several calls and e-mails we were told we could buy 2 VR Cascades resale and they would let us requalify them and we could use them as any other options, convert them (yes I know...), and have them count toward 5*.
> 
> We bought two 2br VR Cascades for 8.5 each- worth 67100/ea or 134200 total options. With closing 18K. They faxed me the contract details and for 599 each requalified and we are now 5* and platinum. The customer service was excellent. On the phone they did all the computer work. Same day we had our 5* in the system and platinum on the SPG site, very cool. The MF's were already paid for in 2007 so we have the options to use this year (probably weekends at MH's).
> 
> I am willing to give anyone the sales reps name as her service was great, and it played out just as she said it would. This whole process took about 4 weeks. You can buy the resort cheaper, but we did not have to buy reasle independently and then buy a new developer unit and then requal. The only downside is the MF's will be a little higher that we would have liked, but overall it met our needs.
> 
> I do not know if they will do this for just anyone, but it worked for us. One last note, the gentleman at SVO owner services told me he regularly reads this site (thanks for your help) and spends a fair amount of time talking to folks that do not understand the process. Hope this helps.


----------



## Kagehitokiri

just called SVO

the rep i spoke with said you do have to be an owner in order to buy resales from SVO


----------



## pointsjunkie

have there been any changes in  requalifying in the recent months? 
1- can you requalify an EY with an EOY?
2- does it matter how many staroptions it is worth?
    can i requalify a unit worth 81000 staroptions with a developer week  worth 37000 staroptions?
3- can i requalify 2units with 2br l/o? would the price have to  be for separate
units for example:  requal a 1 br worth 81000 and a 1 br worth 37000 with a 2 br l/o worth 95700 staroptions ( 1-44000 and the other 51700)
4- do the staroptions have to be equal in a requal.ex( 81000 with a developer worth 81000)?
any input would be appreciated. all the resales are almost finalized so in august i can start the requal process.


----------



## Westin5Star

pointsjunkie said:


> have there been any changes in  requalifying in the recent months?
> 1- can you requalify an EY with an EOY?
> 2- does it matter how many staroptions it is worth?
> can i requalify a unit worth 81000 staroptions with a developer week  worth 37000 staroptions?
> 3- can i requalify 2units with 2br l/o? would the price have to  be for separate
> units for example:  requal a 1 br worth 81000 and a 1 br worth 37000 with a 2 br l/o worth 95700 staroptions ( 1-44000 and the other 51700)
> 4- do the staroptions have to be equal in a requal.ex( 81000 with a developer worth 81000)?
> any input would be appreciated. all the resales are almost finalized so in august i can start the requal process.



1.  Yes you can if you work with the right person.  I was able to do this twice last month.
2.  Staroptions do not matter.
3.  The only way that you could requal two units with a 2BR LO is if you get split deeds; in other words split the purchases (ie one 1BR and one studio separately).  Of course you could always set new precedent but I have not heard of reqaualifying 2 units with one purchase.
4.  See #2 above.

Good luck with your requals.  I would check after everything closes as 2 of mine went perfectly and I had to follow up to make sure that the last one went through.


----------



## ak4ever

*Inherited Week*

My father passed away a year ago and we inherited the timeshare at Vistana.  It is fixed week 7 at Falls.  Can we qualify for the StarPoints or StarOptions and how do we go about it.  We also just bought a resale week that was converted into RCI points already it is in The Shores at Lake Travis in Texas, I don't think is a Starwood Hotel.  So I can only exchange the Vistana for Staroptions/points.  Right???

Also I can turn this fixed week into RCI points when I become an RCI points member??

We bought this resale at Ebay and we are very pleased with the price we payed for the 39,600 points we will get anually.

Ana


----------



## Henry M.

ak4ever said:


> My father passed away a year ago and we inherited the timeshare at Vistana.  It is fixed week 7 at Falls.  Can we qualify for the StarPoints or StarOptions and how do we go about it.  We also just bought a resale week that was converted into RCI points already it is in The Shores at Lake Travis in Texas, I don't think is a Starwood Hotel.  So I can only exchange the Vistana for Staroptions/points.  Right???
> 
> Also I can turn this fixed week into RCI points when I become an RCI points member??
> 
> We bought this resale at Ebay and we are very pleased with the price we payed for the 39,600 points we will get anually.
> 
> Ana



I would call Starwood Ownership Portfolio Services at 800-743-7654 to figure out the exact status of your Starwood property. I'm not sure what happens when you inherit it. Did your father buy this property from Starwood or as a resale?

I'm not familiar with Vistana (I own in Maui), but Starwood is converting all their properties to exchange with Interval International so there will be no affiliation with RCI. You can use the Staroptions to exchange with other SVN resorts or you can convert to Starpoints to be used for hotel stays. Conventional wisdom around here is that the latter is not usually a good deal. You can also exchange your week through Interval International.


Where is The Shores at Lake Travis? I live in Austin and go to for a weekend at the lake.


----------



## ak4ever

I did not know that Starwood wanted to elimimate RCI as an exchange agent, this is the main reason we bought this points Time Share in Texas, to become points members and be able to deposit our fixed week at Vistana as well.  Vistana was bought about 25 years ago by my Dad directly from them.

The address for the Texas resort is 1917 American Drive, Lago Vista.  We have not been there but it really looks good.


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## pointsjunkie

ak4ever said:


> I did not know that Starwood wanted to elimimate RCI as an exchange agent, this is the main reason we bought this points Time Share in Texas, to become points members and be able to deposit our fixed week at Vistana as well.  Vistana was bought about 25 years ago by my Dad directly from them.
> 
> The address for the Texas resort is 1917 American Drive, Lago Vista.  We have not been there but it really looks good.


as far as i know the falls section will still be with RCI, only lakes and cascades are with II. you will definitely have to call starwood to find out if they will let you join the svn system. i do not think so, it will be their call because your dad was an original owner and they might let you.good luck


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## ak4ever

I called and they told me that this unit cannot be turned to points, and if it could, it would be $499 to start with, add $99 to the maintenance fee  per year and $99 everytime I wanted to turn a week into StarPoints.  So I am better off with RCI as long as Vistana will accept it.

Thank you for your time to answer my questions.

Ana


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## vacationtime1

ak4ever said:


> I called and they told me that this unit cannot be turned to points, and if it could, it would be $499 to start with, add $99 to the maintenance fee  per year and $99 everytime I wanted to turn a week into StarPoints.  So I am better off with RCI as long as Vistana will accept it.
> 
> Thank you for your time to answer my questions.
> 
> Ana



IF Starwood will requalify your father's timeshare for you on the terms you describe, you should consider it very carefully.  You would have StarOptions (different from StarPoints) which give you the ability to exchange internally within the Starwood system at no cost, i.e. no RCI membership, no exchange fees, only the $99 annual addition to the maintenance fee).

You should check out the SVN advice article for details:  http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm


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## ak4ever

vacationtime1 said:


> IF Starwood will requalify your father's timeshare for you on the terms you describe, you should consider it very carefully.  You would have StarOptions (different from StarPoints) which give you the ability to exchange internally within the Starwood system at no cost, i.e. no RCI membership, no exchange fees, only the $99 annual addition to the maintenance fee).
> 
> You should check out the SVN advice article for details:  http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm


Very helpful, Thank you!!!!


----------



## sharktzu

*New changes to re-qualificaiton policy?*

I spoke with a sales rep at WMH yesterday who has seemed to be a straight shooter with me in the past. He said that the re-qualification policy from SVN has changed in the last month. According to the new guildlines/rules:
1. No re-qualification of mandatory units
2. Developer purchased units must be equal to the unit being re-qualified; 2bedroom EOY platinum for 2 bedroom EOY platinum.
3. In order to re-qualify a resale unit, the developer purchase must exceed $20,000 in sales price.

I don't know for certain if all of this is true, but IMHO it seems likely. You folks like Duke that pulled the re-qualifications early were smart to do so. With the changes in elite benefits and the additional costs, I'm just not sure its worth it to become 5*.


----------



## Bill4728

sharktzu said:


> I spoke with a sales rep at WMH yesterday who has seemed to be a straight shooter with me in the past. He said that the re-qualification policy from SVN has changed in the last month. According to the new guildlines/rules:
> 1. No re-qualification of mandatory units
> 2. Developer purchased units must be equal to the unit being re-qualified; 2bedroom EOY platinum for 2 bedroom EOY platinum.
> 3. In order to re-qualify a resale unit, the developer purchase must exceed $20,000 in sales price.
> 
> I don't know for certain if all of this is true, but IMHO it seems likely. You folks like Duke that pulled the re-qualifications early were smart to do so. With the changes in elite benefits and the additional costs, I'm just not sure its worth it to become 5*.


I'm not saying that your source isn't a straight shooter but why would starwood not requalify a mandatory resale? It seems to me that it would be even better for Starwood to requalify these over voluntary resorts.
Maybe the info was :
for Voluntary units to be requalified you must:
2. Developer purchased units must be equal to the unit being re-qualified; 2bedroom EOY platinum for 2 bedroom EOY platinum.
3. In order to re-qualify a resale unit, the developer purchase must exceed $20,000 in sales price.

And these rules don't apply to a mandatory requalify.??


----------



## sharktzu

I said the same thing. He said it didn't make any sense to him either, but that the rules were the rules.


----------



## Bill4728

*Starwood corporate input needed.*

Boy, it would sure be nice if we could get a straight answer about these kind of things from the corporate people at Starwood.


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## Kagehitokiri

removed, sorry


----------



## Larry315

I find it frustrating trying to learn what the rules are for requalifying a resale. 

It seems a matter of who says what: A salesman says one thing, his director says another, and TUG may or may not agree.

I am afraid to buy a resale timeshare for the purpose of requalifying it without access to the written corporate rules.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Dt. Chicago said:


> I find it frustrating trying to learn what the rules are for requalifying a resale.
> 
> It seems a matter of who says what: A salesman says one thing, his director says another, and TUG may or may not agree.
> 
> I am afraid to buy a resale timeshare for the purpose of requalifying it without access to the written corporate rules.



I highly doubt if there are stated rules that SVO/SVN would share. 

As someone who successfully went thru this process (see thread mentioned above) - I would not buy resale with the sole intent of requalifying.  I would buy resale because that is what you want to own - the benefits of Elite status are not worth the extra cost in buying from SVO in most cases.

My advice (and others) is to buy (resale) where you want as your Home Resort.  At this point - if you decide to go thru the requal process (like we did), then work out a deal with the salesperson that includes the requal - because only then will you know whether or not it will happen (because it is a moving target).  Also, make sure it is 100% on your terms and not theirs.

Remember that they are in the business of selling TSs and salepeople (with their trophies on their selves) sometimes will do a lot to get in their quota - even if it bending certain so-called rules.

If you do decide to go thru with it - make sure your follow duke's and negma's (and I guess mine) advice above.


----------



## vacationtime1

sharktzu said:


> I spoke with a sales rep at WMH yesterday who has seemed to be a straight shooter with me in the past. He said that the re-qualification policy from SVN has changed in the last month. According to the new guildlines/rules:
> 1. No re-qualification of mandatory units
> 2. Developer purchased units must be equal to the unit being re-qualified; 2bedroom EOY platinum for 2 bedroom EOY platinum.
> 3. In order to re-qualify a resale unit, the developer purchase must exceed $20,000 in sales price.



Less than a month ago, at WKORV, I was told that it did not matter whether the newly purchased unit was EY or EOY; what mattered was the purchase price, which had to be over $40,000.  But by the end of the sales pitch, they would have requalified an annual mandatory unit (Kierland) if I purchased an EOY WKORV-N ocean front for $37,450.  I passed.

At one point in the discussion, the salesperson left to talk to a supervisor; later, the supervisor left to talk to corporate.  Obviously that was part of their negotiation strategy, but just as obviously, Starwood's rule on the subject is that there is no rule on the subject.  Requalification is always a subject for negotiation.


----------



## rockdocs

*Initial Purchase*

Can this be done on an initial purchase thru SVO and qualify for all the exchange benefits?
How is it done, We like Westin Properties.


----------



## saluki

rockdocs said:


> Can this be done on an initial purchase thru SVO and qualify for all the exchange benefits?
> How is it done, We like Westin Properties.



You need to purchase a resale unit first & then requalify that purchase with a developer unit. The first post in this thread lays out the process in great detail.


----------



## ck1

sharktzu said:


> I spoke with a sales rep at WMH yesterday who has seemed to be a straight shooter with me in the past. He said that the re-qualification policy from SVN has changed in the last month. According to the new guildlines/rules:
> 1. No re-qualification of mandatory units
> 2. Developer purchased units must be equal to the unit being re-qualified; 2bedroom EOY platinum for 2 bedroom EOY platinum.
> 3. In order to re-qualify a resale unit, the developer purchase must exceed $20,000 in sales price.
> 
> I don't know for certain if all of this is true, but IMHO it seems likely. You folks like Duke that pulled the re-qualifications early were smart to do so. With the changes in elite benefits and the additional costs, I'm just not sure its worth it to become 5*.



My sales person just confirmed this post in a e-mail except he told me the developer purchase must exceed $40,000.  He also said it could change again for better or worse.  

I already went through the process once with him and it went perfect.  I was thinking about it again down the road so I was just checking with him on the changes.

CK


----------



## shockdoct

With all of these changing rules (40k developer purchase....yow!.just buy kierland or something) and the process becoming much more difficult...any chance the mandatory resales start to go up in price?


----------



## duke

Please Re-read the first post and the steps necessary to do a requalification:

1.  You need to purchase the resale first and get it transferred.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:

2.  YOU NEED TO SIT DOWN (or Telephone) AT AN SVO SALES OFFICE AND BE READY TO MAKE A DEVELOPER PURCHASE.  Phone calls, questions, discussions in advance DO NOT WORK!  Their answers will be inconsistant and unreliable.

You need to be ready to make a deal to get the deal you want with requalification.

In addition you can get:

1.  Waive closing costs
2.  Additional starpoint incentives over those offered to everyone else.

Read the DavidandRobin post on how they did it a few months ago.

PS:  My recommendation:  Get to 5* ELITE with the SPG Platinum for life (hotels) before they reach 2000 and end that benefit.  There is still time......


----------



## pointsjunkie

can any of the negotiations be done over the phone or does it have to be done at an owners update?

do we have to bring the closing papers for the resale or can they look up all the info ar the owners update?

does anyone know if i can requalify a 1small br and 1 large br( different deeds) with a 2 br l/o? will i have to separate the sale or will they be able to do it as a 2 br l/o?


----------



## nodge

Pointsjunkie,

I did my requal entirely over the phone.  It took a while to find a salesperson that was both knowledgeable and willing to work with me over the phone.  That salesperson can answer your other questions in your post, and if you don't like his/her answers, just find another salesperson.

I've PM'd you the name and number of my salesperson at Kierland.  She would probably be a good starting point/reality check.

If you do call her, please post here whether she confirms the recently reported changes to the requal program.

Good Luck,
-nodge


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## pointsjunkie

thank you. not ready yet still waiting for 2 more deeds from maricopa county.


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## tth6133

another wrinkle...was told by a saleperson (who was informed by his manager) that to requal a hawaii or caribbean resort, one needs to spend at least $20,000 for a new purchase from starwood. not sure if it's a new policy or he and his manager is simply mistaken.


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## oneohana

tth6133 said:


> another wrinkle...was told by a saleperson (who was informed by his manager) that to requal a hawaii or caribbean resort, one needs to spend at least $20,000 for a new purchase from starwood. not sure if it's a new policy or he and his manager is simply mistaken.



The one that I've heard is $40,000 to requalify Hawaii or Caribbean. $20,000 for other locations. This came from *wood corporate.


----------



## IML726

*Requal update?*

Has anyone received any updated info regarding changes in the requalification?

I have been reading the forum for the last month or so and am new to world of timeshares.  My wife and I spent our honeymoon in Maui last year and went to a TS presentation at the WKORV and purchased the Explorer package.  

We came back to Hawaii on the Explorer Package and were upgraded to a 1bedroom IV at WKORV-N.  We are definitely interested in purchasing a TS in Hawaii, but have learned from this forum that it is best to buy resale.  However, I do want the option of having StarPoints to exchange for hotels.  My plan was to find a resale in Maui and then purchase a developer TS at Kierlands or another place and have the Maui TS requalified.

I am curious as if there is a change to the requal, b/c that may change what I decide to purchase, etc.

Lots of questions, lots of reading to do.


----------



## cooldj23

Just got back from Vistana Villages and heard about the "new" rules regarding requalification.  I own two 44K Staroption properties and since I cannot combine the points, I thought it was worth the discussion about buying or upgrading to bring myself "into the fold".  I was first told that as long as my total upgrade cost for either propety was greater than $7,000, I could get both weeks requalified.  Then he came back and said that in a few months that will not be true and that only the property I upgraded became a fully qualified week. Then he went on to say that if I spent a total of $20,000, that both could be rolled into the program even if I just upgraded one of them.  They pushed the Starpoints conversion as the big selling point, since I don't get that with my resale weeks.  But my calculations based on using what would be a total of 26,500 starpoints (the tradein for the 44,000 *options)  at a place like Atlantis gets me only two nites vs the 7 nites I will be enjoying in May of 2008 with my 44,000 staroptions.  So if I had known all of this when I first bought resale, I would have bought one 81,000 or 95,700 lockoff to give me the splitting and combining capability that I am missing now.


----------



## duke

cooldj23 said:


> I was first told that as long as my total upgrade cost for either propety was greater than $7,000, I could get both weeks requalified.  Then he came back and said that in a few months that will not be true and that only the property I upgraded became a fully qualified week. Then he went on to say that if I spent a total of $20,000, that both could be rolled into the program even if I just upgraded one of them.
> 
> 
> So if I had known all of this when I first bought resale, I would have bought one 81,000 or 95,700 lockoff to give me the splitting and combining capability that I am missing now.




I think they are just "making the deal as it comes to them".  I don't believe that there is any policy other than what is listed in the "sticky" post #1 and later revised by DavidnRobin experience.  Again.....your best bet is to first buy the resale and then make the deal on the Developer unit when you are actually ready to buy.

It's always best to buy a resale week with 148,100 staroptions like Platinum 2 br l/o WMH.
Also, make sure that when you buy your VV developer unit ... you buy the resort section that is Mandatory like VV - Key West (not Amelia)


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## Bill4728

this was posted in a different thread but I thought it should be here.



vacationtime1 said:


> The memo attached below purports to be Starwood's requalification procedure effective 6/15/07.  I have no idea of its authenticity, but it does explain contradictory posts I have seen (and posted myself).  According to this memo, a Hawaii or Caribbean purchase used to requalify another unit must be $40,000 or more; a US Mainland or Mexico purchase of over $20,000 is sufficient for that purpose.
> 
> 
> *
> STARWOOD VACATION OWNERSHIP 	Number:            01.07
> Eff. Date: *         6/15/07
> *Revision Date: *
> 
> 
> Resale Policy
> Transfer of SVN/SPG with Resale VOI
> All departments must adhere to the business rules of the Starwood Vacation Network to ensure that all owners are being treated equally.
> 
> Gift/Transfer VOI deed:
> •                                             Owners who wish to transfer a VOI with SVN/SPG “without consideration” to immediate family members may do so at no cost.  SVO will monitor as needed.
> 
> SVN/SPG Transfer:
> •                                             Voluntary Resort - To maintain the value of the SVN as an incentive to purchase from SVO directly, Starwood Vacation Ownership will not allow the transfer or purchase of SVN or SPG benefits with the resale of a VOI at SVN voluntary resorts. Membership in the Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) or Vistana Plus (VTP) is a benefit unique to the individual ownership. Under the SVN Rules and the Owner Membership Agreement, a membership in SVN and or VTP and the Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), along with access to the SPG Conversion Program, cannot be transferred to a resale purchaser.
> •                                             Mandatory Resort - At mandatory resorts, Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) membership must automatically transfer with ownership; however, access to SPG membership and ability to convert to Starpoints will be withheld.  This means that the use of the SVN Resorts is available; however, under the SVN Rules and the Owner Membership Agreement, the Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), along with access to the SPG Starpoints Conversion Program, cannot be transferred to a resale purchaser. Resale may only be enrolled into the SPG Program by SVO as Preferred level.
> 
> SVN/SPG Retro:
> •	SVN will enroll “resale” weeks into either SVN or VTP so long as the person owning the “resale” week purchases a new week of inventory directly from the developer.
> •         For each new SVO interval purchased at or greater than the minimum price ($20k for US mainland & Mexico projects; and $40k for Hawaii and Caribbean projects), SVO will “retro” one SVN eligible resale week on a one to one basis into SVN, including SPG membership at no cost (at the original resale SVN level for the resale week).
> o        If a new owner is purchasing a US mainland or Mexico VOI and wishes to retro one previously purchased eligible resale week into SVN/SPG, the new VOI purchase price must be at least $20k (regardless of the location the VOI is being purchased).
> o        If a new owner is purchasing a Caribbean or Hawaii VOI and wishes to retro one previously   purchased eligible resale week into SVN/SPG, the new VOI purchase price must be at least $40k (regardless of the location the VOI is being purchased).
> o        Minimum purchase prices set are based on the product purchased NOT on the property from which they are purchased
> o        This is a one-for-one retro…for each resale week to be “retro’d”, a new developer VOI must be purchased (at or above the minimum purchase price)
> 
> Document reviewed on 10.2.07kp/yw
> 
> 
> Robert



So it looks like the best way to get value for your money is to buy a Hawaii and/or Caribbean TS resale and then requalify them with the developer purchase of ~$20K from a US mainland & Mexico resort.  ( but IMHO, I'd always want to buy a Mandatory resort because of the much greater resale value)


----------



## pointsjunkie

with all the new rules,i need some opinions. they say we have to have $40000 in caribbean(aruba) to requalify but my question is: if i want a package such as purchase a 2 br prime at svv priced around $24000 and a 2br unit plat in aruba at $26000 and requalify 2 units, do you think they would go for it?  DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD TURN AWAY A DEFINITE SALE?

i don't want or need the 2br l/o in aruba in plat plus seaSON.

LOOKING FOR YOUR OPINIONS. THANKS


----------



## oneohana

I thought it depended on which property you wanted to requal. Not on which property you were going to buy.
Requal Hawaii or Caribbean =$40k in developer purchases.


----------



## grgs

oneohana said:


> I thought it depended on which property you wanted to requal. Not on which property you were going to buy.
> Requal Hawaii or Caribbean =$40k in developer purchases.



Based on the Starwood memo listed above, I think you have it backwards.  It's the new Starwood purchase that has to be $20K (US Mainland/Mexico) or $40K (Hawaii/Caribbean).  I don't think what you're requaling/retroing matters.

Glorian


----------



## grgs

pointsjunkie said:


> with all the new rules,i need some opinions. they say we have to have $40000 in caribbean(aruba) to requalify but my question is: if i want a package such as purchase a 2 br prime at svv priced around $24000 and a 2br unit plat in aruba at $26000 and requalify 2 units, do you think they would go for it?  DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD TURN AWAY A DEFINITE SALE?
> 
> i don't want or need the 2br l/o in aruba in plat plus seaSON.
> 
> LOOKING FOR YOUR OPINIONS. THANKS



Don't know--you can certainly try to negotiate that.  I don't see any harm in trying.  

If you don't specifically want/need Aruba, I'd probably stick to the less expensive Orlando option (or consider the new Westin Desert Willow in Palm Desert).

What is your goal for requaling?  How many options do you already have, and how many more do you want? 

Glorian


----------



## pointsjunkie

i need to purchase 2 units worth 81000 each,requalify 2 units and i will be at 5*.
they take platinum away and i will be so not happy. anyone who is 5*, is it worth having the platinum ? or am i wasting my money.

i could just purchase 81000 and requalify 1 unit and i will get to 4*. 

just to preface: we use starpoints alot to go to hotels.


----------



## arlene22

Just thought I'd let you guys know. My retro finally came through today. It took a long time but my $995 resale Vistana Resort week is now in SVN and I am 4* now :whoopie: Thank you to all to who took the time and effort to post all of this information.


----------



## grgs

arlene22 said:


> Just thought I'd let you guys know. My retro finally came through today. It took a long time but my $995 resale Vistana Resort week is now in SVN and I am 4* now :whoopie: Thank you to all to who took the time and effort to post all of this information.



Congratulations!  What did you buy to requal the Vistana unit? 

Glorian


----------



## arlene22

We bought a developer resale (phase 1) Harborside week that they had in inventory. Oddly enough, it was a lot cheaper than phase 2. I think the explanation for that is that they stopped publishing higher prices for phase one when it officially sold out some years ago, but they continue to come in inventory as people trade them in to buy phase 2's.


----------



## tomandrobin

Congrats on your requal and making it to 4 star elite! 

How many more points do you need to make 5 star? Since you are that close.


----------



## arlene22

I think this is where I get off the train. I just barely made 4* with 363,000 SO. 4* is what I wanted, because I really value the ability to keep a reservation while being on the waiting list. 5* would be nice, but I don't see that in my future.


----------



## tomandrobin

arlene22 said:


> I think this is where I get off the train. I just barely made 4* with 363,000 SO. 4* is what I wanted, because I really value the ability to keep a reservation while being on the waiting list. 5* would be nice, but I don't see that in my future.



So four star was the goal for you. Five star would be nice to have, but there is no way we could ever use all those weeks. Maybe in about 10 years when the kids are coompletely gone and we can see retirement in the road ahead.


----------



## myip

arlene22 said:


> We bought a developer resale (phase 1) Harborside week that they had in inventory. Oddly enough, it was a lot cheaper than phase 2. I think the explanation for that is that they stopped publishing higher prices for phase one when it officially sold out some years ago, but they continue to come in inventory as people trade them in to buy phase 2's.


Congrat for 4*.  Did you have to spend $40,000 to requalify for Vistana Resort?  IIs the new purchase is also a 2 bedroom?


----------



## arlene22

Yes and yes.


----------



## pointsjunkie

just spoke to someone at starwood direct sales and she gave me some very interesting info pertaining to requals. if you are on the mainland when you are making a purchase, hawaii, or caribbean and there are prices under the $40000 mark then you can requalify a resale. so if you only wanted to purchase an eoy that would be acceptable to requalify a resale.

but if you are in hawaii or the caribbean and purchase from the sales center there then you would have to purchase a minimum of $40000 to requalify a resale.

thought you would all be interested.


----------



## ccy

pointsjunkie said:


> just spoke to someone at starwood direct sales and she gave me some very interesting info pertaining to requals. if you are on the mainland when you are making a purchase, hawaii, or caribbean and there are prices under the $40000 mark then you can requalify a resale. so if you only wanted to purchase an eoy that would be acceptable to requalify a resale.
> 
> but if you are in hawaii or the caribbean and purchase from the sales center there then you would have to purchase a minimum of $40000 to requalify a resale.
> 
> thought you would all be interested.



Is this true?  Could they requalify with an EOY purchase?

We just got back from Harborside and we attended the update.
They offered us 1 br deluxe in the gold season for 20k or eoy for 10k (discounted from $12,800).  They did tell us that we can combine the staroptions with our resale, I wasn't sure if they were talking about requalification, I didn't ask a lot of questions having no intention to buy.


----------



## pointsjunkie

from what i was told, this is correct. must spend $20000.


----------



## SDKath

*So is this a risky idea?  Newbie help please.*

My head is spinning after reading all these posts of requal.  Let me get this right.  I can buy a resale Mission Hills (no Desert Willow resale yet, right?) this month.  Then in a few months, we can purchase the new Poipu property or possibly Cancun and requal the Palm Springs properties as long as it's like for like (2BR for 2BR)?

Where is the $40,000 limit fitting into this?  Is it the property we purchase from the developer directly (new)? 

Not sure I understand the m/v debate.  I think the Palm Springs properties are voluntary?!

And it sounds like I'd need to go to the site in person to make the purchase since they won't tell you over the phone all this?  I don't mind going to Desert Willow but we don't have time for a Hawaii trip till end of 2008 at earliest.

I'd hate to "waste" a lot of money if I can't get the requal but if we can, that would be a GREAT deal for me and my family.  

Thanks!  Katherine


----------



## pointsjunkie

SDKath said:


> My head is spinning after reading all these posts of requal.  Let me get this right.  I can buy a resale Mission Hills (no Desert Willow resale yet, right?) this month.  Then in a few months, we can purchase the new Poipu property or possibly Cancun and requal the Palm Springs properties as long as it's like for like (2BR for 2BR)?
> 
> Where is the $40,000 limit fitting into this?  Is it the property we purchase from the developer directly (new)?
> 
> Not sure I understand the m/v debate.  I think the Palm Springs properties are voluntary?!
> 
> And it sounds like I'd need to go to the site in person to make the purchase since they won't tell you over the phone all this?  I don't mind going to Desert Willow but we don't have time for a Hawaii trip till end of 2008 at earliest.
> 
> I'd hate to "waste" a lot of money if I can't get the requal but if we can, that would be a GREAT deal for me and my family.
> 
> Thanks!  Katherine


 
hi, i just requalified 2 units, so i will try to go through it step by step.
yes, you can requalify a resale at wmh. it does not have to be a 2br for a 2 br.

my head was spinning also . i had just come home from a trip and accidentally found TUG and boy i got a quick education.

they did not allow requals when i purchased my first 3 starwood timeshares.

this is the most significant change: if you purchase in hawaii or cancun they say you have to spend $40000 and then you can requalify. when i called starwood sales center they said it only applies if you are in hawaii or cancun at the time of the sale. so as i made her repeat to me many times: if i am on the mainland and i purchase hawaii or cancun from my house or at a mainland sales center then i don't have to spend $40000 to have a resale requalified. and she confirmed this. do i know if it is true, your guess is as good as mine.

wmh is voluntary and when requalified it will give you all the benefits as if you purchased from starwood directly.

i did not purchase hawaii so i do not know if they are allowed to do all this over the phone.

my advice is to go on starwood site and press the icon for vacation ownership. get the phone number for sales and speak to someone about the $40000 thing. that's how i got my info on that. because if you don't have to spend $40000 then you can save some money. 

but of course if the unit you want is $40000 then this is a non issue.
do all your homework first and you must purchase the wmh resale before you can actually get the ball rolling with starwood.

DO NOT BUY with starwood until your resale is complete and title has passed and they have you in the system. you do not want any hassles from your end.

keep me up to date on your progress. 
happy new year


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## SDKath

Thanks for the reply!  It all makes perfect sense.  

My only debate now is: buy lower resale like Mission Hills and then buy a more expenisve property from the developer (like Hawaii) OR buy Hawaii resale and requal it and then buy less pricy from developer new (like Desert Willow).

Any suggestions?

Thanks and happy new year!  Katherine


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## pointsjunkie

SDKath said:


> Thanks for the reply!  It all makes perfect sense.
> 
> My only debate now is: buy lower resale like Mission Hills and then buy a more expenisve property from the developer (like Hawaii) OR buy Hawaii resale and requal it and then buy less pricy from developer new (like Desert Willow).
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks and happy new year!  Katherine



if you bought a resale in hawaii and then a developer week in desert willow, i think that will cost you a heck of alot less money.

if hawaii is definitely what you want i would go the resale route, make sure you get the view you want. in hawaii it is very important from all i have read.


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## SDKath

Thanks.  Here is our newest thought.  Buy WMH resale EY 2BR LO.  (I am getting the abbreviation lingo down, ).

Then, buy EOY at one of the new places from developer.  As long as it's over $20,000, I could requal WMH, right?  Or do I need to spend $40,000 since we are interested in the Hawaii/Cancun properties??

Thank you!  Katherine


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## pointsjunkie

SDKath said:


> Thanks.  Here is our newest thought.  Buy WMH resale EY 2BR LO.  (I am getting the abbreviation lingo down, ).
> 
> Then, buy EOY at one of the new places from developer.  As long as it's over $20,000, I could requal WMH, right?  Or do I need to spend $40,000 since we are interested in the Hawaii/Cancun properties??
> 
> Thank you!  Katherine



that is correct, they want you to spend $20000. do you alreadt oen with starwood? make sure you get the exploere package before you contact starwood about the resale. this way you oprtimize your starpoints.

as i was told (verfy this with starwood) if yoy purcahse hawaii or cancun on the mainland you only have to spend $20000 . verify this first before you go ahead with the process.


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## DeniseM

Kathrine - one question:  What is your goal in requalifying? 

Because....you can buy two resale weeks for a fraction of the cost of buying a resale + a developer week.  

If you buy resale weeks at 2 Mandatory resorts, you don't have to requalify to exchange them within the SVN, and you will save a heck of a lot of money!  Mandatory resort resales automatically qualify for SVN exchanges, without having to buy from the developer to requalify a resale.

Resales that are Mandatory (include Staroptions with resales)
# Harborside Resort
# Vistana Villages
# Westin St. John
# Westin Ka'anapali
# Westin Kierland Villas

So - if you buy a resale at WKV and WKORV, you will:
1.  own in the 2 areas you are interested in 
2.  be able to exchange within the SVN
3.  save a lot of money by not buying from the developer at all

Unless you plan to purchase enough weeks ($$$) to achieve 5 Star Elite and get Platinum SPG for life, there is virtually no reason to buy from the developer at all.  There is nothing wrong with that, if that's your goal, but it's a major investment.  Notice that pointsjunkie had to buy 8 Starwood weeks to achieve 5 Star Elite and she posted that her MF are over $7K a year.  This is not a criticism, I'm just pointing out what kind of investment it requires.

*Just to add some figures:

In Dec. a Kierland 2 bdm. worth 148,100 Staroptions sold on ebay for $22,090, and we have seen a number of WKORV OV 2 bdms. worth 148,100 Staroptions, sell for less than $30K.

So you could buy 2 Mandatory - 2 bdm. units resale, for around $52K and maybe a bit less if you took your time and shopped around. 

In the other post, where you asked about buying Hawaii resale ($30K) and Desert Willow ($39K) from the developer, that would cost you $69K total, and you really wouldn't have achieved anything by spending $17K more.  And because Desert Willow is not a mandatory resort, it won't hold it's resale value as well as WKV either...


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## SDKath

*Thanks!*

Good point about the mandatory resorts.  Here are my thoughts (which are changing continuously).  Our inlaws live in Phoenix 1/2 the year so as my wise husband pointed out, not much use in getting a TS where we can already stay with them (at the Boulders no less).

I would like one week to be a "guaranteed" holiday week for us.  And with 2 little kids, that means probably buying an event week at one of the places, preferrably HI.  That way when we can't go, we can almost guarantee a good rental.  If we can, well, then it'll be the best New Year ever!

I am noticing that the event weeks are expensive no matter which way we look at it.  But places like WMH are totally cheap right now (esp with the remodel coming up; I found a number of people willing to sell a resale for $13000 as Platinum 2BR LO).  If I requal that, the price can't be beat.

And finally, parents are splitting one of the TS with us.  They want StarPoints to go to hotels too.  They want quick 3-4 day get aways in as many areas close to their home as they can find.

So basically we are not sure.   Need to do more research.  If there was a mandatory resort in CA where we can drive easily, we'd be done with this decision in no time.  Thanks for the great points though.  I am learning so much!

Katherine in San Diego


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## DeniseM

SDKath said:


> And finally, parents are splitting one of the TS with us.  They want StarPoints to go to hotels too.  They want quick 3-4 day get aways in as many areas close to their home as they can find.



The thing with StarPoints is that you just don't get a get an equal value when you exchange your timeshare for points.  

Let's say you buy at a resort worth 80K Starpoints  That's about the norm for a 2bdm. lock-off worth 148,100 Staroptions like the WKORV.  Then you covert the lock-off into Starpoints for your parents.  That would give them  33,800 Starpoints, which would only get them 2 or 3 nights per year in a standard room in a Starwood Hotel.  

At best, even if you converted both sides of your TS to points, they might get 2 - 3 day weekends out of it.  2 weekends in a standard hotel room is just NOT an equal trade for a 2 bdm. Maui TS!

It's just not a good value to convert to StarPoints.  And it's certainly not worth $17K more to buy from the developer.  I wouldn't let the Starpoints influence my buying decision at all, because the conversion rate is so unfair.

With your goals, buying 2 resales makes good sense.


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## pointsjunkie

i do agree with denise, but if you purchase a developer week you can get the explorer package as well as the sales incentive starpoints which will get the parents the 3-4 day trip that they want as part of the program. that's is why we went developer 2 times. i use this option all the time. 

but i would nor use it for hawaii or harborside because the mf's are too high. but  i will use them to convert my sdo, wkv and my svv.   when added to my other starpoints it let's us go to many beautiful resorts where there are no timeshares.


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## SDKath

Thanks.  That's our thinking also.  We'd like the flexibility to go to more places than just a ski, desert and tropical location.  So with the hotel points, we can pick up some much needed short breaks.  And so can my parents.  The developer incentives for new purchases sound like about 400,000 points, which would last us a while.  Who knows.  

I look at it kind of like Weight Watchers.  I know to lose weight I have to eat less.  But now that I am paying $55 a month, I am finally accountable to eat less or lose the money (and I have reached my goal).  LOL.  K



pointsjunkie said:


> i do agree with denise, but if you purchase a developer week you can get the explorer package as well as the sales incentive starpoints which will get the parents the 3-4 day trip that they want as part of the program. that's is why we went developer 2 times. i use this option all the time.
> 
> but i would nor use it for hawaii or harborside because the mf's are too high. but  i will use them to convert my sdo, wkv and my svv.   when added to my other starpoints it let's us go to many beautiful resorts where there are no timeshares.


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## pointsjunkie

SDKath said:


> Thanks.  That's our thinking also.  We'd like the flexibility to go to more places than just a ski, desert and tropical location.  So with the hotel points, we can pick up some much needed short breaks.  And so can my parents.  The developer incentives for new purchases sound like about 400,000 points, which would last us a while.  Who knows.
> 
> I look at it kind of like Weight Watchers.  I know to lose weight I have to eat less.  But now that I am paying $55 a month, I am finally accountable to eat less or lose the money (and I have reached my goal).  LOL.  K



make sure you have the amex starwood card so you can pay for it and get double starpoints.
pm me and i will give you the code to get extra starpoints and i will give you the guys name for the explorer program.


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## DavidnRobin

Kath - This is getting long and it is tough to follow what you really are attempting here (your main goals...), but I will make some suggestions (as quickly as possible)

The matter of retro/requaling a resale is very complicated - and there are many things to consider.  Basically, you need to establish what your goals are (which may be very different than others).

If getting to 5*/Plat-4-Life (PFL) is your goal - then I would use duke's approach and buy as cheaply as possible the resales and SVO properties needed to reach 5*/PFL.  This means that you are not buying these mainly for you Home Resort, but to get to PFL in order to use the Starwood Hotel system to its fullest.  If you do not intend to do ALOT of travelling via Starwood Hotels (or major flexibility for using SVN exchanges), then you need to consider whether PFL is right for you.   Because this will mean buying SVO VOIs that are not in prime locations, nor will have as much value if you ever decide to sell (again - a major consideration).

If you want better Home Resort value and care about future value - then getting to 5*/PFL is going to be more expensive, because that entails buying the more prime resort locations.

Regardless of how this fits into your goals - it is important to consider the resorts that you are buying, what their current values are, and what their future values may be (crystal ball vision).  The best thing may be to buy as many SOs as you can for as cheaply as you can resale (first) and then buy a SVO to retro/requal that you can find the best deal on - with the best SP incentives.  This is where V vs. M resorts really become important, and the quality of the resort from a value perspective - both in current costs(purchase price and MFs) and future costs (MFs and reasle vaue).  SVO is no longer buiding M resorts, and they are more expensive, but tend to have better resale value.

This is not easy (as you are finding out).  Our retro goal was not to get to PFL.  We wanted premier resorts, and the deal they offered us was really good - but we paid a premium to do this.   duke managed to do it amazingly inexpensively, but the some of the resorts owned - we would not consider (Orlando for example).  But, it does come down to cost and personal TS goals versus the value you get.  Our vacation time is limited, if we were in retirement mode - it may make sense to be PFL, and get there as cheaply as possible.

I am not sure if it is still possible to use duke's approach in getting to PFL so inexpensively - as buying 'cheap' resorts from SVO seems to be drying up.  If you have lots of disposible income, then your flexibilty increases.  If you do not need the hotel side of Starwood - then why bother?  Just buy Mandatory resorts resale in places you want to go - or even look into the Marriot program (or others) to increase you TS experience.

Again, it comes down to what you TS goals are, and how much income you have to get to these goals.

I don't think I added any clarification, but hopefully food-for-thought.  If you are going to go the retro/requal route - set-up a clear plan and be willing to negotiate hard.  First buy resale as many SOs you can get (and consider a M resorts), then negotiate with SVO in buying a VOI from them as cheaply as possible - for the best current/future value - with as many SPs as you can squeeze.  IMO - buy where you want to go in case things change in this venture

An EY requal with an EOY purchase will be best here.   Try and use a same day ExpPkg to do this - which means that you likely need to walk out of the first negotiation. And get an SPG AMEX card - use this to purchase (and pay off immediately). 

Good luck.


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## SDKath

*Thank you!*

I appreciate all the time everyone is taking to answer my questions.  Our goals change daily right now.   

I think my husband and I have come up with a good plan, albeit not the cheapest.  We'd like a home resort we can drive to.  We live in San Diego.  So that means Palm Springs or Newport (although we live in the Del Mar area so Newport is not that much of a change for us).  We'd probably use that resort most years as a get away week.

Then, we'd like a really nice place at an exotic location with great trading power, the ability to rent it out well.  We are thinking Hawaii, St John or CO ski.  We'd need high season as we can only travel with the kids during the usual breaks.  Also, we probably won't go there yearly so we'd like to be able to rent it out, which I am assuming will keep us even on the expenses.  I have no delusions about making $ off our "investment."  

So plan right now is buy WMH resale and requal it with a development purchase EOY or EY, likely during an event week, likely Hawaii or St John.

THat's the best I got after a month of reading these boards 24/7 and thinking of what would work best for our lifestyle.

(OH, and parents are splitting the development purchase and want it 1/2 time.  And of course I want to be able to have my kids use it when they get older too, making Hawaii a more practical choice as we are on the West COast).

Katherine


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## DavidnRobin

I did read that your folks live in the PHX area - mine do to - BUT I would still consider WKV since it is a Mandatory resort (therefore always in SVN - resale or not) - and a great resort.  You can get 148.1K SOs (2Bd LO Plat) for about $21K at WKV.  What does WMH cost resale for 148.1K SOs?

As to an exotic location - we bought WSJ VG resale (M).  The new WSJ BV units are way expensive (V) - and a very long trip - I have heard that WSJ-SVO  does still sale some WSJ VG units, but don't know the specifics.  I would consider WPORV (we bought EOY and requaled our EY WKORV) - or even WKORV-N, but it appears these prices may have gone thru the roof.  Perhaps even Cancun WLOR (V) since they appear cheap and come with lots of SOs.

then there is also Aruba (WAV)...


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## SDKath

Thanks.  I have person willing to sell WMH Platinum 2BR LO for $14,000 with use in 08 or 09.  Is that sounding reasonable?  Asking prices are all over the map ($15,000 to $22,000).

Quick question -- why did you requal WKORV.  Wasn't that Mandatory to begin with?  Katherine

Also, looking at Poipu if and when that comes out.  I love Kauai but would like to be on the beach for the kids.  I just hope they don't do away iwth the requal deals by the time that property is for sale.


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## DavidnRobin

I have no idea what WMH is worth - SO-wise (if it is 148.1K SOs) - seems pretty good, but it is a V resort.

All of our SVI VOIs were Mandatory - we requaled WKORV because it had the most SOs associated with it - but you are correct in thinking what would be the use of doing a M resort (?).  But remember - upon resale it is still within SVN (where a V resort is not).  Our 'deal' was more about the entire package (EY requal with EOYodd purchase, 50% for EOY, same-day ExpPkg, 200K+ SPs, 3*), and we wanted WPORV. 

Poipu is a long way off still - and will be branded as a Sheraton.  Princeville has no direct beach, but the area is unique in the world.

Some of your questions (WMH value) should be asked in the Starwood forum - and not in the requal thread/sticky.


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## Henry M.

Some reasons to requalify a resale Mandatory resort:

- Staroptions can be converted to Starpoints
- Staroptions count towards SVO Elite status
- Staroptions from developer purchases/requalified units can be combined towards exchanges (e.g. you want to use the points from two low Staroption units to exchange into one that requires more Staroptions)

You can't do any of the above with a mandatory resale property if you don't go through the requalification process. Voluntary resale property loses the ability to exchange within the SVN system in addition to losing the above.


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## LisaRex

SDKath said:


> Then, we'd like a really nice place at an exotic location with great trading power, the ability to rent it out well.  We are thinking Hawaii, St John or CO ski.



Just remember that the flight to the Caribbean is going to be much longer (and more expensive) than a flight to Hawaii. 

Or, you buy St. John and I'll trade you every other year for my WKORV ocean front unit!!  (The flight to Hawaii from the Midwest is a killer, too.)


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## duke

SDKath said:


> Thanks.  I have person willing to sell WMH Platinum 2BR LO for $14,000 with use in 08 or 09.  Is that sounding reasonable?  Asking prices are all over the map ($15,000 to $22,000).



WMH resale Platinum 2 br L/O price should be between $10k - $12k.  Don't pay more.

Also, you should know that you cannot rent via SVN rental services units that you traded into.  You can only rent units you own.  This does not apply to renting yourself...which you can do with traded into units.

Also, note that you cannot combine staroptions for mandatory resorts that have not been requalified.

duke


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## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> Just remember that the flight to the Caribbean is going to be much longer (and more expensive) than a flight to Hawaii.
> 
> Or, you buy St. John and I'll trade you every other year for my WKORV ocean front unit!!  (The flight to Hawaii from the Midwest is a killer, too.)



Listen to duke...

This is off topic, but...

Our flights to STT (from SFO) have been cheaper than our flights to OGG (Maui).  We just paid $625pp (AA) to fly to STT - our flights to OGG have cost $700pp (UA).

We may not be using our WSJ unit in 2009...   :ignore:


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## SDKath

D&R: I just looked at your list of properties.  WOW!  You have everything we want!  And more.   

So I am back to requaling a "cheap" resort like WMH that I can possibly get for $10-12,000 and is going to be renovated.  Then buy developer (was quoted $63,000 for fixed Week 52 in Princeville today!) with requal of WMH.  OF Week 52 in Maui is $104,000! EEK.  OF Week 52 is $76,000.

One interesting thing OT today is that they tell me the Princeville property has only 1 level of "views", and that's an OV.  No OF obviously.  But you can be in the building right by the water or behind 10 other buildings if I am looking at this all right on the map!?!?!


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## DeniseM

Katherine - You are correct, in that some building will have better views that others, but they are all being sold as ocean view.  Also, since the resort is up on a cliff, there is quiet a bit of setback, and a long drop down, so nothing is right on the water.  My guess is that owners who call at exactly 9 a.m. ET, at 12 mos. out will get the units closest to the cliffs.  Unless, of course, you pay a premium to fix your unit.

Did you see this artist's rendering?  The first picture of the slide show gives you a good idea of the setback and relationship to the cliffs.


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## DavidnRobin

How about the video on this page?
http://www.westinvacationownership...._resort_villas/index.html?IM=SVO_WEB_EOI_WPOR

Hey... lets' take this to the main forum and not on the requal thread.


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## SDKath

OK, back to the requal topic.  I have 2 quick questions.  

1) If I purchase a resale (let's say WMH) EY.  Then I buy an EOY property from Westin, I can still requal WMH as long as the developer's property is over $20,000, right?

2) If I purchase a resale WMH EOY and then buy EOY with the developer, can I requal my resale if the EOY from the developer is LESS than $20,000?  If I can, do I get 1/2 the staroptions each year for each property or do I get the full staroptions for each property every other year. Finally, once I requal the resale, can I combine 2 staroptions from 2 properties into one big staroption and go to Hawaii or the like??  That's what it sounds like from one of the posts above.

Ok, that was more than 2 questions.  Thank you!  Katherine


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## Denise L

I can help with #2. If you own EOY(s), you get your full Staroptions for your use year only. And yes, requal/developer week Staroptions can be combined, whereas resale Staroptions cannot be combined.  

Sounds like you are getting really close to figuring this all out! Good luck!


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## LisaRex

I believe you can take an advance on the following year's StarOptions, too, but the following year's MFs have to be paid in advance and you can only do it every other year.   And I think you use your view, too.  

Great perk, huh?!


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## DavidnRobin

For #1 - there is nothing in writing - only policy (at best) - everything can be negotiated.  SVO can do (or not do) anything they want - and they can change policy at any time.  This is one reason to buy where you want to go - - and mandaory... if the deal collapses, or isn't to your liking  - you still have a nice M TS (resale) to start your TS portfolio.


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## vacationtime1

SDKath said:


> If I purchase a resale (let's say WMH) EY.  Then I buy an EOY property from Westin, I can still requal WMH as long as the developer's property is over $20,000, right?



If your developer purchase is on the U.S. Mainland or Mexico, you are correct.  However if your developer purchase is in Hawaii or in the Carrribean, it must be $40,000 or more.  See post #110 in this thread where Starwood's new, "official" policy was posted.

But that is Starwood's official policy.  My own recent experience is to the contrary.   Starwood would have retro'ed one of my resale purchases with a $37,500 developer purchase.  Therefore, DavidnRobin's post immediately above is the soundest advice.


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## Denise L

LisaRex said:


> I believe you can take an advance on the following year's StarOptions, too, but the following year's MFs have to be paid in advance and you can only do it every other year.   And I think you use your view, too.
> 
> Great perk, huh?!



Is this different than "borrowing" from the next year, but only being able to book 90 days out?  If not, then booking 90 days out could be a problem because of availability, and trying to book back to back weeks with an existing reservation made at 12 months out.


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## DeniseM

Denise L said:


> Is this different than "borrowing" from the next year, but only being able to book 90 days out?  If not, then booking 90 days out could be a problem because of availability, and trying to book back to back weeks with an existing reservation made at 12 months out.



Hi Denise - Isn't the 90 days out rule just for partial weeks?  I thought you could borrow a full week's worth of Staroptions a year in advance and use the Staroptions to reserve a full week at any time - not just 90 days out?


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## pointsjunkie

i think you can only borrow next years staroptions 90 days out.


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## DeniseM

You're right - it is 90 days out according to mystarcentral.com - thanks!


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## RLG

*Subsidizing someone else's developer purchase to requalify mine?*

I realized this should be it's own thread, so I moved it:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=454886#post454886


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## mirish

Thanks to all that have given great insight.  I hope to put it all to use next month.  I just bought a resale and had planned on buying from developer when there for w/e next month.  Now I can hopefully requal my resale at VV and purchase a unit from the developer.  this with my current week should put me well on my way for the elite status perks.

Marilyn


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## DeniseM

mirish said:


> Thanks to all that have given great insight.  I hope to put it all to use next month.  I just bought a resale and had planned on buying from developer when there for w/e next month.  Now I can hopefully requal my resale at VV and purchase a unit from the developer.  this with my current week should put me well on my way for the elite status perks.
> 
> Marilyn



Hi Marilyn!  Welcome to TUG!  

What are your goals in reaching Elite Status?  In other words, what do you hope to get from it?


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## mirish

Thanks Denise.

I hope to over the next year or so work up to 5* elite.  The benefits at this level are what I am interested in, especially the early/late check in and the platinum instead of gold status.  We enjoy travel and with our youngest only a 2 years from leaving for college the extra weeks for travel will be great.  my husband also travels a little for work and at least once a year he (I always go with him) goes to a conference in Europe and the hotel upgrade will be great at those times!  Through conferences, a starwood property is usally a hotel choice, but we often do not get credited the nights as we use the conference rates, we do  get perks afforded gold members but the platinum perks are much better!


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## stans2000

*Mandatory Resort*

How do I ensure that a purchase of a resale Mandatory Resort qualifies for the ability earn or exchange Staroptions?


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## Henry M.

A mandatory resort always has the ability to earn StarOptions. Voluntary resorts have to be requalified.

What you don't get witha resale is the aility to get StarPOINTS. If you buy a resale mandatory resort you wuld subsequently have to buy another resort (mandatory or voluntary) from Starwood and make the requalification a part of your purchase negotiations.


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## bajohnsons

Does anyone have any recent experience with requalifying a mandatory resort with regards the SPG points. Earlier posts (e.g. post 89) had indicated that this could not be done.  If that is in fact the case can staroptions be combined on a mandatory requalify?  I was considering Harborside and wil probably do it any way, but want to know what I can expect regarding the other benefits.


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## DeniseM

If you requalify a resale, it gets back ALL the rights of a developer week including Starpoints and the ability to combine the Staroptions from one or more weeks.  It would be treated exactly like a developer week, once you requalify it.



> Does anyone have any recent experience with requalifying a mandatory resort with regards the SPG points. Earlier posts (e.g. post 89) had indicated that this could not be done.



Post 89 was from the statement of one salesman at one resort.  In the posts that follow it, you will see that others disagree and generally state that Starwood makes up the rules as the go along.  Also, many times Tuggers are more knowledgeable than salesmen...


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## jramat

*Trying to understand and make a decision*

Need help please! We bought at Vistanna Villages-Key West 2 br lockoff float from the developer a little over a year ago. Maybe should have bought resale, but too late now! If we want more StarOptions primarily, should we buy resale somewhere to get them? If we do,  can we get it "requalified" somehow from SVO? Seems like we should have done the resale first and then from the developer if I understand what I've read here???? But we didn't so what can I do now? We'd like the greater number of options but is there a way to get the other perks too at this point or do I just buy from the develper again and get the 3-star elite deal they are offering us. We are being offered Princeville, eoy, 2 br-lockoff for $25,000 right now. And yes, we did get the "price will increase on Feb. 15th speech.

Thanks!!

John


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## pointsjunkie

you have to buy a resale first, have title clear before you can requalify it with a new developer week. it must go in that order.


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## pointsjunkie

your SVV is worth 95700 or 81000, the EOY new purchase would be worth 74050. that will get you to 3* elite. to get to 4* you will need a total of 359,000 staroptions. if your intention is to get to 3* purchasing a resale would be nice but not neccesary to get to 3*. if your ultimate goal is to get to 5* then purchase a resale worth 148100 staroptions.

did you ask the salesperson if they would requalify a resale with the $25000 hawaii purchase?


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## jramat

*thanks but still confused*

Points junkie...I'm trying not to buy from the developer and still get to 3* elite. It is true that I have 95700 right now and need to get to 159000 for 3*. Also true that eoy will be 74050 which would work and that offer is on the table for $25000 right now.

I did not ask the developer about requalifying a resale with the $25000 because I don't have one. If I do buy a resale somewhere I would try to acquire enough options to get me the necessary 63300 to  get to 159000, 3*. Is my thinking correct on that? 

Also, after I purchase a resale, I don't get some of the other perks (points, etc) that come with a developer deal. Is that correct??

Further, after that, it doesn't seem like there are any requalification possibilities unless I make a third purchase, which would have to be from a developer, to attempt a requalification. True?

Any other ideas??

Sorry for all the questions but thanks a ton!!!!!!!!!

John


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## tomandrobin

jramat said:


> Points junkie...I'm trying not to buy from the developer and still get to 3* elite. It is true that I have 95700 right now and need to get to 159000 for 3*. Also true that eoy will be 74050 which would work and that offer is on the table for $25000 right now.
> 
> John



You can only get to 3* with developer purchaes or resales that have been requalified with a new developer purchase.


----------



## jramat

Got it!!  Thanks!!


----------



## Bill4728

jramat said:


> Also, after I purchase a resale, I don't get some of the other perks (points, etc) that come with a developer deal. Is that correct??
> 
> Further, after that, it doesn't seem like there are any requalification possibilities unless I make a third purchase, which would have to be from a developer, to attempt a requalification. True?
> 
> Any other ideas??
> 
> Sorry for all the questions but thanks a ton!!!!!!!!!
> 
> John


If you want more points, you can buy a cheap resale and then the cheapest developer week and get the resale "retro'd"/requalified.

OR you can buy a large unit at a mandatory resort which has a lot of Staroptions and buy it resale (Saving yourself lots of $$). You'd not get elite but are you sure you want 3* elite that much? If later on you do whan elite, you can retro your resale purchase and likely have enough SO to be a 4*.


----------



## duke

jramat said:


> We bought at Vistanna Villages-Key West 2 br lockoff float from the developer a little over a year ago.
> 
> We are being offered Princeville, eoy, 2 br-lockoff for $25,000 right now. And yes, we did get the "price will increase on Feb. 15th speech.



Are you saying that the Developer price for Princeville 2brL/O (SVO owner price) is now $25,000 for EOY and therefore $50,000 for EY?

By the way....If you purchase a Mandatory Resale you will NOT be able to combine StarOptions.  This is important.

You should first purchase a resale and then purchase your Developer.

WMH is least expensive resale with high StarOptions.


----------



## Kildahl

duke said:


> Are you saying that the Developer price for Princeville 2brL/O (SVO owner price) is now $25,000 for EOY and therefore $50,000 for EY?......



That's the price until the 15th.


----------



## stevens397

Help me here.

I own Kierland (developer purchase pre-construction).

If I buy two WMH resale for a total of about $25,000 that brings me to about 444,000 SO.  So I would need another 115,000 to reach 5* elite, but I would need two separate developer purchases to qualify my two WMH resales, right?  

What I'm getting here is that I could buy a 2 bedroom lockoff as two separate units (1 Premium and 1 Deluxe) and that would do it.  Right?

How would the SO be calculated if I bought 2 EOY units?  What if they are 1 BRs?

To be more succinct, what's the least I would have to spend with Starwood to get the 115,000 SO and get to 5*?  Many thanks!


----------



## grgs

stevens397 said:


> Help me here.
> 
> I own Kierland (developer purchase pre-construction).
> 
> If I buy two WMH resale for a total of about $25,000 that brings me to about 444,000 SO.  So I would need another 115,000 to reach 5* elite, but I would need two separate developer purchases to qualify my two WMH resales, right?
> 
> What I'm getting here is that I could buy a 2 bedroom lockoff as two separate units (1 Premium and 1 Deluxe) and that would do it.  Right?
> 
> How would the SO be calculated if I bought 2 EOY units?  What if they are 1 BRs?
> 
> To be more succinct, what's the least I would have to spend with Starwood to get the 115,000 SO and get to 5*?  Many thanks!



Well, you have to spend a minimum of $20,000 to requalify a week.  Since you'd want to requalify 2 weeks, you'd have to spend $40,000.  

What happened to the second home in Florida?  

Glorian


----------



## pointsjunkie

stevens397 said:


> Help me here.
> 
> I own Kierland (developer purchase pre-construction).
> 
> If I buy two WMH resale for a total of about $25,000 that brings me to about 444,000 SO.  So I would need another 115,000 to reach 5* elite, but I would need two separate developer purchases to qualify my two WMH resales, right?
> 
> What I'm getting here is that I could buy a 2 bedroom lockoff as two separate units (1 Premium and 1 Deluxe) and that would do it.  Right?
> 
> How would the SO be calculated if I bought 2 EOY units?  What if they are 1 BRs?
> 
> To be more succinct, what's the least I would have to spend with Starwood to get the 115,000 SO and get to 5*?  Many thanks!



if you purchased eoy's each one would have half the staroption value. so you would need to purchase 2 2 br l/o eoy to get where you need to be. but each one must cost $20000. the least amount you can purchase is 125300 staroptions eoy. 

you will be paying more in MF"s if you buy eoy for 2  cpmpared to ey for 1.

the new places such as cancun ,desert willow,princeville are not selling as 1 br's, you must buy the l/o's.

so you are looking at a minimum of $40000.


----------



## grgs

pointsjunkie said:


> the new places such as cancun ,desert willow,princeville are not selling as 1 br's, you must buy the l/o's.



Actually, Starwood is selling the Westin Lagunamar (Cancun) 1 bedrooms & studios separately.

Glorian


----------



## Kildahl

stevens397 said:


> Help me here.
> 
> I own Kierland (developer purchase pre-construction).
> 
> If I buy two WMH resale for a total of about $25,000 that brings me to about 444,000 SO.  So I would need another 115,000 to reach 5* elite, but I would need two separate developer purchases to qualify my two WMH resales, right?
> 
> What I'm getting here is that I could buy a 2 bedroom lockoff as two separate units (1 Premium and 1 Deluxe) and that would do it.  Right?
> 
> How would the SO be calculated if I bought 2 EOY units?  What if they are 1 BRs?
> 
> To be more succinct, what's the least I would have to spend with Starwood to get the 115,000 SO and get to 5*?  Many thanks!



My recent experiences confirm PJ  and Glorian's reponses to you. However, if there is any wiggle room for retro negotiation it would be in connection with a purchase at Lagunamar. All sales efforts at this time are focused on this project.


----------



## pointsjunkie

grgs said:


> Actually, Starwood is selling the Westin Lagunamar (Cancun) 1 bedrooms & studios separately.
> 
> Glorian



thanks didn't know that. still sick.


----------



## stevens397

Glorian-

Wow - someone was listening.

Long story short.  I know that at some point I want a place there and it seems that prices right now are very, very reasonable.  So my thoughts were that my wife had two years left till she retired from teaching and then we could use it.  

But I would insist on a golf community and I'm not ready to take quite so much time off to make it useful - maybe a week a month for a number of years.  Buying the home, paying the membership in the club and keeping it going for what would probably be at least 5 years until I truly take advantage of it just seemed like a bad, bad financial move.  But a week a month (during the winter especially) seems possibly right for a timeshare situation.

Besides, we're all always thinking about this stuff!  I got Starwood Platinum from my Centurion card and had a blast with it.  Requalified once but this will be my last year.  Getting it for life - well I could see it being very valuable.  And the sense I have from this board is that I could get 2 WMH for no more than $25,000 and another $40,000 for units to requalify them.  So that $65,000 might be a very reasonable investment.  We'll see.


----------



## myip

stevens397 said:


> .
> 
> Besides, we're all always thinking about this stuff!  I got Starwood Platinum from my Centurion card and had a blast with it.  Requalified once but this will be my last year.  Getting it for life - well I could see it being very valuable.  And the sense I have from this board is that I could get 2 WMH for no more than $25,000 and another $40,000 for units to requalify them.  So that $65,000 might be a very reasonable investment.  We'll see.



I just did upgrade and retr'd at the same time.  It can be a lot cheaper than $40K to requalify them.  see this thread.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66979


----------



## grgs

stevens397 said:


> Glorian-
> 
> Wow - someone was listening.
> 
> Long story short.  I know that at some point I want a place there and it seems that prices right now are very, very reasonable.  So my thoughts were that my wife had two years left till she retired from teaching and then we could use it.
> 
> But I would insist on a golf community and I'm not ready to take quite so much time off to make it useful - maybe a week a month for a number of years.  Buying the home, paying the membership in the club and keeping it going for what would probably be at least 5 years until I truly take advantage of it just seemed like a bad, bad financial move.  But a week a month (during the winter especially) seems possibly right for a timeshare situation.
> 
> Besides, we're all always thinking about this stuff!  I got Starwood Platinum from my Centurion card and had a blast with it.  Requalified once but this will be my last year.  Getting it for life - well I could see it being very valuable.  And the sense I have from this board is that I could get 2 WMH for no more than $25,000 and another $40,000 for units to requalify them.  So that $65,000 might be a very reasonable investment.  We'll see.



Based on quick math, 559,000 options would be enough for 6-7 weeks in prime season at various resorts, so that I think your proposal is reasonable.  Of course, you wouldn't see the appreciation (in fact, likely would see depreciation) that a second home probably would.  On the other hand, mf-wise you'd only be paying for what you would use, and wouldn't need to worry about upkeep/maintenance.

I don't know if you saw this current thread or not:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67937

Glorian


----------



## stevens397

*Help me hone my argument.*

Okay everyone - please indulge me once again.  Let me explain my newest rationale and tell me what you think.  If I can get it past you folks, I might be ready to try it on my wife!

1. I WANT SPG Platinum for Life.  I crave it.

2. There are many, many places in the world I have yet to see.  On the other hand, I could also go back to Paris every year.  In two more years, when my wife retires from teaching, we will do much more travelling.  My wife (and I) would never want to be tied down to loads of destinations from timeshares.  But one more might not be bad.

3. I get loads of Starwood points from using their AMEX in my business.  As I too wind down, that will end.

4. So here goes - buy one more Starwood timeshare - possibly Cancun.  But also purchase two weeks in Mission Hills for about $20-22,000.  Yes, maybe some years I'd go there but that would not be the reason for purchasing.  Once I get them requalified, I can turn them in for points every year.  Forgetting the purchase price, the maintenance fee and conversion fee would mean that I'd be paying about 1.7 cents per point and I still manage to usually get in excess of 5 cents per point.  The two timeshares each year could get me two Business Class tickets to Europe - every year!

So in my mind, I'd have two Starwood timeshares plus a points machine.  The only downside I see is should Starwood continue the rapid depreciation, but it has to stop at some point, I  would think, or it would be a meaningless program.  I'd have fees of about $5,000 per year for two weeks in two 2 bedroom units plus a net of 144,000 points per year.

Okay - knock yourselves out and tell me why I'm crazy (or brilliant!).  Thanks!


----------



## myip

stevens397 said:


> 4. So here goes - buy one more Starwood timeshare - possibly Cancun.  But also purchase two weeks in Mission Hills for about $20-22,000.  Yes, maybe some years I'd go there but that would not be the reason for purchasing.  Once I get them requalified, I can turn them in for points every year.  Forgetting the purchase price, the maintenance fee and conversion fee would mean that I'd be paying about 1.7 cents per point and I still manage to usually get in excess of 5 cents per point.  The two timeshares each year could get me two Business Class tickets to Europe - every year!
> 
> Thanks!



Not crazy except I would buy Sheraton Mountain Vista or Lakeside Terrace.  Mission Hills has a high maintenance fees and taxes.  You get better conversion rate starpoints for SMV and LT.

-- IF hotel is all you are looking for, you may also consider Hilton.  Resales is also allow to convert to Hilton Honors Points.


----------



## DMSTWO

*At last someone who values the starpoints conversion*

I'm relatively new to TUG and appreciate all the info and good advise that can be found here.  I am, however, in the minority when it comes to my perception of the value of Starpoints.  I think one of the major benefits to the Starwood system is the ability to convert to Starpoints.

I travel  a lot internationally and have an unpredictable schedule, so pre-planning a timeshare reservation 8-12 months in advance is a bit dicey.  

By using Starpoints I have been able to enjoy some great opportunites and accommodations all over Asia and Europe.  I bring my wife along on some trips and then extend my stays oversees for some R&R using Starpoints.

I'm still in the research stage and haven't invested in any Starwood properties yet.  So I'm certainly no expert.  The way I see it however, is if you choose your TS units properly, the MF to Starpoints ratio can yield some very good bargains.  In addition you have the benefit of nice home resorts, as well as, SVN and II exchanges.

I do understand the arguments against Starpoints conversion but see a common thread throughout the posts that question their value.  In particular, those who post against the value of Starpoints seem to be approaching Starwood resorts as more of a high end traditional type TS.  By this I mean they more often than not appear interested in returning frequently to their home resort and feel that the internal (if SVN members) and external exchanges are more than enough flexibility.

If I were in their shoes I would support their argument, but for me flexibility has its own value.

To me Starwood means...Great properties to use when I want, good external exchange value, the flexibility to expand into the hotel network through starpoints, and finally a solid company that should have the staying power to support the resorts well into the future.

Unfortunately, to realize all of the benefits you have to purchase at least some of your units from the developer....flexibility does have a cost.


----------



## stevens397

And even tho I agree with you (and place much, much more than 1-2 cents value per point that some do), the fly in the ointment is the fact that I have seen, over the last four years, a drastic reduction in the value of my points.

There was a time four years ago, when I first got into this program, that I thought I would set up a second retirement account in Starwood points!  Build up a million or two and use them during my retirement.  To do so would have meant an absurd loss of value - so earn em and burn em is the way to go. 

I may go ahead and still try to reach 5* but I'm well aware of the risk.


----------



## pointsjunkie

DMSTWO said:


> I'm relatively new to TUG and appreciate all the info and good advise that can be found here.  I am, however, in the minority when it comes to my perception of the value of Starpoints.  I think one of the major benefits to the Starwood system is the ability to convert to Starpoints.
> 
> I travel  a lot internationally and have an unpredictable schedule, so pre-planning a timeshare reservation 8-12 months in advance is a bit dicey.
> 
> By using Starpoints I have been able to enjoy some great opportunites and accommodations all over Asia and Europe.  I bring my wife along on some trips and then extend my stays oversees for some R&R using Starpoints.
> 
> I'm still in the research stage and haven't invested in any Starwood properties yet.  So I'm certainly no expert.  The way I see it however, is if you choose your TS units properly, the MF to Starpoints ratio can yield some very good bargains.  In addition you have the benefit of nice home resorts, as well as, SVN and II exchanges.
> 
> I do understand the arguments against Starpoints conversion but see a common thread throughout the posts that question their value.  In particular, those who post against the value of Starpoints seem to be approaching Starwood resorts as more of a high end traditional type TS.  By this I mean they more often than not appear interested in returning frequently to their home resort and feel that the internal (if SVN members) and external exchanges are more than enough flexibility.
> 
> If I were in their shoes I would support their argument, but for me flexibility has its own value.
> 
> To me Starwood means...Great properties to use when I want, good external exchange value, the flexibility to expand into the hotel network through starpoints, and finally a solid company that should have the staying power to support the resorts well into the future.
> 
> Unfortunately, to realize all of the benefits you have to purchase at least some of your units from the developer....flexibility does have a cost.



i am one of the crazy people who loves the starpoint benefit, use them all the time. but if i owned in hawaii i would probably feel the way they do but i own at relatively less expensive resorts minus harborside that i would change to starpoints and go to beautiful resorts at places that are on my must see list.

without that added benefit we would not have owned our first starwood timeshare, that was a major reason we purchased in the first place. we liked the added flexibility just in case life happens and we can't go away we have an option to convert to starpoints and use in the future. it works well for us.


----------



## LisaRex

If I planned on traveling internationally a lot, I think Platinum for Life could actually make fiscal sense.  Acc to the fine folks on FlyerTalk, platinum benefits abroad are really great.  

And if it doesn't work out for you, you can always sell them or simply rent them out.


----------



## grgs

stevens397 said:


> 4. So here goes - buy one more Starwood timeshare - possibly Cancun.  But also purchase two weeks in Mission Hills for about $20-22,000.  Yes, maybe some years I'd go there but that would not be the reason for purchasing.  Once I get them requalified, I can turn them in for points every year.  Forgetting the purchase price, the maintenance fee and conversion fee would mean that I'd be paying about 1.7 cents per point and I still manage to usually get in excess of 5 cents per point.  The two timeshares each year could get me two Business Class tickets to Europe - every year!



Just want to clarify--are you thinking of 2 EOY purchases in Cancun?  You'll need two separate Starwood purchases to bring in both Mission Hills units.

Glorian


----------



## capjak

Does anyone know if WLOR falls under the 20K rule for requal or 40k rule for requalifcation purchase?


----------



## SDKath

capjak said:


> Does anyone know if WLOR falls under the 20K rule for requal or 40k rule for requalifcation purchase?



I don't think you can requal WLOR due to some strange exceptions to the Cancun deeds and foreign laws.  I would check with Starwood on this one!

You can, however, use a Cancun purchase from Starwood to retro WMH or another resale property.  If the property being retro'd is on the mainland, you have to spend $20,000.  If the property is HI or Carrib (ie you bought WKORV resale and want to retro it with a Cancun purchase), you need $40,000 purchase from Cancun to retro it.

Katherine


----------



## capjak

SDKath said:


> If the property being retro'd is on the mainland, you have to spend $20,000.  If the property is HI or Carrib (ie you bought WKORV resale and want to retro it with a Cancun purchase), you need $40,000 purchase from Cancun to retro it.
> 
> Katherine



Thanks, WKORV-N resale, 40K Cancun retro that hurts.


----------



## pointsjunkie

it is $20000 for cancun.


----------



## stevens397

Glorian-

My proposal would be to buy the one BR premium EY and the one BR deluxe as 2 separate transactions - paying a bit more buy being able to then requal 2 properties.


----------



## grgs

stevens397 said:


> Glorian-
> 
> My proposal would be to buy the one BR premium EY and the one BR deluxe as 2 separate transactions - paying a bit more buy being able to then requal 2 properties.



Ok, that should work.  Thanks for the clarification!

Glorian


----------



## avelox

*Anything New To Add To This Thread?*

It's been a while since anybody posted to this thread!
Kinda wondering if anybody has anything new to add....specifically...has anybody actually, successfully, concluded the process of requalifying a Starwood resale...lately?
Maybe a few of you took notice of the offer on E-Bay lately for a 2BR unit at the Sheraton Vistana Resort Lakes Section that included the staroptions value in the description.....and then added a mention that this value could be added to an owner's existing portfolio.
Re-sale buyer beware.


----------



## DavidnRobin

avelox said:


> It's been a while since anybody posted to this thread!
> Kinda wondering if anybody has anything new to add....specifically...has anybody actually, successfully, concluded the process of requalifying a Starwood resale...lately?
> Maybe a few of you took notice of the offer on E-Bay lately for a 2BR unit at the Sheraton Vistana Resort Lakes Section that included the staroptions value in the description.....and then added a mention that this value could be added to an owner's existing portfolio.
> Re-sale buyer beware.


Yes - alot is new - and alot of people have used the requal/retro and the upgrade - see SDKath's thread...  
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71543

Why must the "re-sale buyer beware"?  Did we miss something...?


----------



## taffy19

David, I believe it is only a Caveat Emptor to a new buyer as you have to know what you are doing when buying a resale unit.  If you don't know all the facts, you may do yourself a big disfavor so that's why the "Let the Buyer Beware!" notice.  There is so much to read and know before you buy resale or from a developer.  JMHO.

For newbies at this forum, I would read all the notes under the stickies at the top of this thread for starters.  It would help a lot.


----------



## DavidnRobin

iconnections said:


> David, I believe it is only a Caveat Emptor to a new buyer as you have to know what you are doing when buying a resale unit.  If you don't know all the facts, you may do yourself a big disfavor so that's why the "Let the Buyer Beware!" notice.  There is so much to read and know before you buy resale or from a developer.  JMHO.
> 
> For newbies at this forum, I would read all the notes under the stickies at the top of this thread for starters.  It would help a lot.



Of course - Research is key - and I didn't see the offending eBay ad since I don't track Sheraton's on eBay (and the link wasn't given - so I do not know what is specifically stated - and there are TONS of them) I was just responding to the post itself.  Which sort of stated off questioning  'requaling' and whether it occurs  "_specifically...has anybody actually, successfully, concluded the process of requalifying a Starwood resale...lately_?"

It is true that resale SOs can be requaled - if someone bought a resale with the intention of doing it then they would have to find out about how to do it - and hopefully had a plan in hand.  But it would not be the most incorrect thing placed in an eBay ad.  There are tons I see all the time like those that state they have SOs that can be exchanged via SVN - yet are V resorts.
Or stating that the VOI is OF because the resort is...

For someone to take on requaling a resale VOI - they would have to be 'in the know' pretty much.  Hopefully if they intended to buy the one in the ad - they would hopefully find out what it meant instead of  moving forth blindly.

Those on TUG would have access and hopefully knowledge - those buying blindly on eBay - caveat emptor... {for all aspects}

tbh - I was sort of questioning the intent of the poster (w/ 4 posts...) and the associated text... peace.


----------



## MaryH

For those that are looking at Cancun, please beware that Mexico timeshare are not deeded by are RTU.   not sure what cycle SVO has on Cancun but some are 25 year renewables.


----------



## DeniseM

MaryH said:


> For those that are looking at Cancun, please beware that Mexico timeshare are not deeded by are RTU.   not sure what cycle SVO has on Cancun but some are 25 year renewables.



The Starwood timeshare in Cancun is not RTU with an end date - it is perpetual.

From an earlier post:

8/1/2005
I also found out that it is an "equity ownership" in the form of a 50 year trust. There is an automatic renew for another 50 years in perpetuity.


----------



## MaryH

And they will not be able to change the terms of the trust on renewal?  

In Mexico, only Mexicans can own property so not sure how ownership of the trust stands up legally if there are any issues down the road.


----------



## DeniseM

MaryH said:


> And they will not be able to change the terms of the trust on renewal?
> 
> In Mexico, only Mexicans can own property so not sure how ownership of the trust stands up legally if there are any issues down the road.



That's a good question, but a corporation the size of Starwood would have all that figured out long before they sold timeshares or built the resort.

Here is more information about the resort and the discussions from 2005:  http://www.freewebs.com/denisetravels/starwoodnews.htm


----------



## Larry315

*Every Other Year Requalify*

I'm looking for advice as we consider buying.

If I purchase an every-odd-year resale that receives 81,000 points, and then requalify that purchase by buying an annual use property that has 81,000 points per year from the developer, what is the effect?

Do I receive 162,000 points every odd year and 81,000 per even year?

What if I purchase an every-odd-year property from the developer and requalify and annual use resale? Is the effect different.

If anyone has expereince doing this or knows how it will work, I would  appreciate your help.

Thanks


----------



## DavidnRobin

For both options - you get 81,000 + (81,000/2) = 121,500 StarOptions towards Elite Status with usage of your 2 weeks in odd years (162K SOs), and 1 week usage (81K SOs) for your even year.

The 2nd option is generally a better value.
Neither will get you to 3* Elite.

The question is why wouldn't you just buy all as resales?

In general the best usage for requaling a resale unit is to bring it into the SVN system and/or to build Elite status -and some strategies for being able to convert the SOs to StarPoints (hotel stays).


----------



## DeniseM

Hi!  Have you had a chance to read the Starwood FAQ at the top of the Page and SDKath's guide to 5 Star Plat in the Owner Resources sticky?  That's a good place to start.



Dt. Chicago said:


> I'm looking for advice as we consider buying.
> 
> If I purchase an every-odd-year resale that receives 81,000 points, and then requalify that purchase by buying an annual use property that has 81,000 points per year from the developer, what is the effect?
> 
> Do I receive 162,000 points every odd year and 81,000 per even year?



Yes, but you would actually own the weeks and you have the option to  convert to Star*options* - the exchange value of Starwood timeshares in the Starwood system.  (Star*points* are Starwood Hotel Points.)  You can only convert to Staroptions every other use year, unless your are an Elite Owner.



> What if I purchase an every-odd-year property from the developer and requalify and annual use resale? Is the effect different.



There isn't a short answer to that question, because is depends on where you buy and the price difference.

(Where are you Kath?)

Also - What are your GOALS in requalifying?  What do you hope to achieve?  That will help us answer your questions.


----------



## pointsjunkie

you can requalify an annual with an eoy but you must spend $20000. if you do it as an upgrade then katherine is the one to ask. i do know you have to spend $10000 for them to do an upgrade.


----------



## SDKath

Dt. Chicago said:


> I'm looking for advice as we consider buying.
> 
> If I purchase an every-odd-year resale that receives 81,000 points, and then requalify that purchase by buying an annual use property that has 81,000 points per year from the developer, what is the effect?
> 
> Do I receive 162,000 points every odd year and 81,000 per even year?
> 
> What if I purchase an every-odd-year property from the developer and requalify and annual use resale? Is the effect different.
> 
> If anyone has expereince doing this or knows how it will work, I would  appreciate your help.
> 
> Thanks



I think I am confused by your question.  I assume you mean SO's not SP's.  If you own EOY property that you bought on resale, you can retro it (bring it into SVN) with ANYTHING over $20,000 right now.  So you can buy an EY or EOY and bring in your EOY property easily.  You'd get the SO's for both (so in your example, 81,000+81,000).

But if you are going to spend $20,000 anyway, why retro an 81,000 SO resale property (unless you already own it and like it).  It's best to bring in a resale that is worth 148,000 SOs since you are spending a LOT with Starwood anyway.  So my advice would be to buy any resale worth 148,100 (or as close to it as possble) and then go to Starwood and purchase something that is over $20,000.  That could be an EOY or EY purchase.  

I did hear rumors that eventually you may not be able to retro an EY with an EOY but so far, that has not been the case for me.  As long as it's over $20k....

Katherine


----------



## pointsjunkie

if you own an EOY or are purchasing an EOY the staroptions per year are cut in half. 

hopefully you buy an EOY even and an EOY odd so then of they are both worth 81000 staroptions then that's what you will have per year.

if owned an EOY  even worth 81000 and then purchase an EY worth 81000 for accounting purposes only to qualify for elite status you would own 121500 staroptions per year.


of course in the even years you would have 2 weeks vacation and in the odd years you would have 1 week vacation. if you used 81000 staroptions per each vacation week.

hope that clarifies it for you.

barbra


----------



## capjak

Also if you purchase a resale from Hawaii or carribean you need to spend $40,000.


----------



## Larry315

Thanks to all of you for explaining this to me.


----------



## jarta

*"Upgrading/Retroing" a Starwood Timeshare*

I own 3 Starwood timeshares.  I purchased my 2-bedroom lockoff at LagunaMar directly from Starwood.  After joining this board, I purchased a 2-bedroom lockoff at Kierland and a 3-bedroom at Harborside.  Those two purchases were not through Starwood but from recent purchasers who had to sell their timeshares due to the downturn in the economy.  All are floating annual use in Platinum Season.

I now have a ton of "options" (not a bad thing).  The options from Harborside and Kierland are tradeable within the SVO network because those resorts are "mandatory" resorts.  However, I understand unless I "retro" them I cannot combine "left over" options from my Kierland (148,100 options) or Harborside (196,900 options) reservations to reserve somewhere else.  Moreover, the "options" from those two resorts cannot be converted into banked "points" for use at a Starwood hotel or resort unless I "retro" the purchases when I buy some other week from Starwood.  (I understand how retroing works.  That's not what I need to know.)

I have 2 questions.  First, in the "sticky" about requalifying, there is a statement that if your property is shown on mystarcentral as having both a staroptions and a starpoints value, the options are convertible into points.  All 3 of my purchases have a staroptions and starpoints value listed.  Is that correct?  Since my first purchase was through Starwood and I already was a member of SPG, could it be that there is no need to retro either timeshare?  Or, did I just slip through the Starwood system?  (I don't want to ask Starwood if I just slipped through.  I have received no notice saying: welcome to 4 star elite.)

Second, assuming I must do something further, is there another way to accomplish getting 4 star elite and the ability to combine "left over" options other than buying another week from Starwood?  It crossed my mind that my purchases at Harborside and Kierland were from recent purchasers at high purchase prices (for them) from Starwood.  I remember reading about "upgrading" a purchase at your "home resort" using the price of the purchase from Starwood as the "base price" for the upgrade.   Could I upgrade to a "fixed" week and unit at Harborside or Kierland using the original owners' purchase price/base price to get the timeshare at that resort into Starwood's good graces and/or use that "purchase" to "retro" the other?

Any answers or information on both issues would be appreciated.


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## pointsjunkie

i don't think an upgrade would work since you are already  are at platinum in the largest units both places have.

the amount of staroptions you have is 148100+148100+196900=493100 which is so close to 5* elite.

the way to do this is going to cost you ar least $60000. $40000 to requalfy Harborside and $20000 for westin kierland.

i don't think there are any other alternatives with the properties you have.


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## DeniseM

Welcome back, Jarta!   

I'm going to move your post to the ongoing thread on this topic.


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## pointsjunkie

when i purchased at svv resale it stated on my star central that  listed the staroptions and the starpoints but could not access them. when you call they know you bought resale. i was excited that starwood made a mistake, but they didn't.


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## SDKath

As far as the upgrading is concerned, the answer is YES, you can upgrade a platinum to another platinum week via Starwood as long as the price difference is at least $10,000.  So, let's say your resale Harborside plat week costs $30,000 to the original owner (who sold it to you).  You can upgrade to another Harborside plat week as long as you buy it from Starwood and it is more than $40,000.  You would then get the $30,000 credit and pay the $10,000 difference.  By doing that, you also get your unit into SVN and can then combine options.

At Kierland, no upgrades are allowed anymore (and there is no inventory either) so that would not be doable right now.  There is talk of another phase of Kierland opening sometime (2009 maybe?) but no solid info is out there yet.  Plus, it would likely be voluntary.  But perhaps if you can wait it out, you would have the upgrade option then with your WKV week!

Katherine


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## pointsjunkie

but if they own the largest unit in platinum week what can they upgrade to? i am sure there are no event weeks to upgrade to.harborside platinum 3 br's are sold out according to the salesman. but that might not be true.


----------



## jarta

*Thanks for the Info*

Thank you for the responses!

I will have to decide what I want to do.  I am really quite happy going where I own in the Platinum Season.  Also, all the Staroptions are tradeable in the SVO network.

So, I will have to weigh further flexibility against the added cost to retro and the added MFs.  Also, I already have the equivalent of 6 weeks of use during the Winter and I am worried about trying to find time for more vacations.  But, it's a good predicament to be in.

I'd like to thank all Tuggers for maintaining this board.  It is a great resource.  Without the information posted here I would have spent a lot more money to get what I have.  WKV and Harborside would have cost a lot more than the total of $58K.  Again, thank you.


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## Joshadelic

I have been waiting now for over 1 month for my SDO week to be brought into SVN.  How long should this be taking?  Could anyone else here who has done a retro please let me know???

Thanks!!!

~Josh


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## lars158

Joshadelic said:


> I have been waiting now for over 1 month for my SDO week to be brought into SVN.  How long should this be taking?  Could anyone else here who has done a retro please let me know???
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> ~Josh



From my experience, between 2-3 months...

This is the lead time for my retro's:
* Mission Hills ~ 2 months
* Ka'anapali ~ 2 months
* Mountain Vista ~ 3 months   

I have no idea why it takes such a long time, but it seems there is a lot of red-tape and many departments involved to get this done.

Good luck!


----------



## DavidnRobin

Joshadelic said:


> I have been waiting now for over 1 month for my SDO week to be brought into SVN.  How long should this be taking?  Could anyone else here who has done a retro please let me know???
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> ~Josh



Our retro (that I wrote extensively about) was essentially immediate, but we already held the deed for the unit that was retro'd.


----------



## Joshadelic

A fellow TUGGER gave me some advice and I had my retro completed today within minutes.  Amazing.  They sat on it for over 30 days until I had to call and ask them to do it.


----------



## lars158

Joshadelic said:


> A fellow TUGGER gave me some advice and I had my retro completed today within minutes.  Amazing.  They sat on it for over 30 days until I had to call and ask them to do it.



Who did you call to get it done ?   I worked with the Sales office and it was painful (pointing fingers on other departments within Starwood).


----------



## Joshadelic

I spoke to the SVN Admin department.  They did a search for my documents.  Once they found them, my unit was in SVN within minutes.


----------



## silkey21

*SVO Retro was there a charge*



Joshadelic said:


> I spoke to the SVN Admin department.  They did a search for my documents.  Once they found them, my unit was in SVN within minutes.


was there a $599 charge to retro your unit into SVO ?


----------



## DeniseM

silkey21 said:


> was there a $599 charge to retro your unit into SVO ?



That sounds like the fee that Starwood is charging the voluntary owners that are being invited to join SVO.  Several sections of Sheraton Vistana Resort have been invited to join Starwood for a fee.  That is different than requalifying a resale.  These are voluntary weeks that were never in the SVN,  and all of them are being invited to join the SVN.  However, recent purchases don't qualify.

Also, if an owner bought at a resort like SDO before Starwood bought it from the original developer, they can pay a fee and join the SVN.  But that is a different scenario than requalifying, as well.

Note that the above offers cannot be transferred to a new resale owner that just recently bought at the resort.  However, we sometimes see Ads where the original owner thinks they can transfer this option when they sell their TS - it doesn't transfer.


----------



## Joshadelic

silkey21 said:


> was there a $599 charge to retro your unit into SVO ?



Nope.  It was part of the deal.  All they did was take the old owner's paperwork and replaced their names with ours.  We signed the docs as if we were the original owners.


----------



## pointsjunkie

Joshadelic said:


> Nope.  It was part of the deal.  All they did was take the old owner's paperwork and replaced their names with ours.  We signed the docs as if we were the original owners.


are you sure you are in the SVN? you have starpoints and staroptions?


----------



## Joshadelic

pointsjunkie said:


> are you sure you are in the SVN? you have starpoints and staroptions?



Yes.  Absolutely sure.


----------



## silkey21

Joshadelic said:


> Nope.  It was part of the deal.  All they did was take the old owner's paperwork and replaced their names with ours.  We signed the docs as if we were the original owners.



Why does this option not transfer to the new owners ?.


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## Joshadelic

silkey21 said:


> Why does this option not transfer to the new owners ?.



What option?  Every option that the original owners had transferred to me.  I can't think of one that didn't.


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## DeniseM

silkey21 said:


> Why does this option not transfer to the new owners ?.



When a resale week is requalified, it is treated exactly as if it was a week that was bought from the developer, so it has both Staroptions and Starpoints.

A resale week from a MANDATORY resort automatically (without requalifying) has StarOPTIONS, but not StarPOINTS.

A resale week from a VOLUNTARY resort does not have Staroptions or Starpoints, unless it's requalified.

Why? - Because those are Starwood's rules.

See the Starwood FAQ at the top of the page for more info.


----------



## Fcast

*Requalifying Weeks*

I have 3 weeks purchased as resales.  I was told by starwood that to requalify you need to spend $20M on a new developer purchase to requalify a domestic location and $40M for Hawaii or other international locations.  This is for each unit you want to requalify.  She said the rules changed on May 1 and it is likely that Starwood would stop all requalifications in the future.:annoyed:


----------



## Bill4728

Fcast said:


> I have 3 weeks purchased as resales.  I was told by starwood that to requalify you need to spend $20M on a new developer purchase to requalify a domestic location and $40M for Hawaii or other international locations.  This is for each unit you want to requalify.  She said the rules changed on May 1 and it is likely that Starwood would stop all requalifications in the future.:annoyed:


I'm not an SVN expert like some of the others but :
_"I was told by starwood that to requalify you need to spend $20M on a new developer purchase to requalify a domestic location and $40M for Hawaii or other international locations. "_ This was and still is the rule.

I understand the rule change in May was you can't requalify/retro a resale week by "up-grading" that week any more. People were able to buy a 1 bd gold season unit resale, then trade that unit in (at the full developer price)  for an "up grade" And they were able to get their new unit in SVN *and *. retro a second unit at the same time. This option went away.


----------



## xbanker

*Plain English for Newbies*

Hello all,
I found this thread to be extremely interesting and valuable for a SVO newbie like myself.  I purchased Westin Princeville 2bd EY last month through the developer.  I am looking to add by purchasing another 2bd EY at another SVO property if I can get it prequal so that I can enjoy the same advantage as purchasing through the developer. 

I'd like to get input on what is the best stategy for purchasing the next resale SVO prop that'll give me 148.1k points for the lowest price and MF and get it prequal'd. Given that i already purchased and closed on my Princeville prop, would that disqualify me from getting my resale prequal'd if i go that route?

And would love to get some step by step on what to do to get resale prop prequal'd for someone in my situation.  

Thx Much!!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

xbanker said:


> Hello all,
> I found this thread to be extremely interesting and valuable for a SVO newbie like myself.  I purchased Westin Princeville 2bd EY last month through the developer.  I am looking to add by purchasing another 2bd EY at another SVO property if I can get it prequal so that I can enjoy the same advantage as purchasing through the developer.
> 
> I'd like to get input on what is the best stategy for purchasing the next resale SVO prop that'll give me 148.1k points for the lowest price and MF and get it prequal'd. Given that i already purchased and closed on my Princeville prop, would that disqualify me from getting my resale prequal'd if i go that route?
> 
> And would love to get some step by step on what to do to get resale prop prequal'd for someone in my situation.
> 
> Thx Much!!!



There is no short answer here - thus the various ways and reasons people have requaled.

Main problem is that you have already purchased a very costly SVO TS (VOI) at WPORV, and then that would have been the best time to requal.

I wrote my experiences on buying an EOY WPORV (SVN Mandatory) from SVO and requaling our WKORV - and that describes in detail one approach.  However, these is more benefit in requaling a SVN Voluntary resort that is cheap, has low MFs, and gives the best SO-SP conversion

In order to requal now - you will need to 1st buy a resale (meeting the above criteria) and then buy another SVO VOI that qualifies in order to requal the resale.

At this point - I would only see a benefit (IMO) if you intend to get to 5*Elite/Plat for life - otherwise the benefit of SO-SP conversion w/o 5*/PFL is questionable?  This is commonly argued here, but mainly from those who are already 5*/PFL - where the optimal benefit is attained.


----------



## LisaRex

xbanker said:


> Hello all,
> I found this thread to be extremely interesting and valuable for a SVO newbie like myself.  I purchased Westin Princeville 2bd EY last month through the developer.  I am looking to add by purchasing another 2bd EY at another SVO property if I can get it prequal so that I can enjoy the same advantage as purchasing through the developer.
> 
> I'd like to get input on what is the best stategy for purchasing the next resale SVO prop that'll give me 148.1k points for the lowest price and MF and get it prequal'd.



I'm afraid you've done it backward.  You should have bought the resale unit FIRST.  Then you go to the developer and say that you'll buy from them directly ONLY if they agree to requalify your resale purchase.  In this case, you have the leverage because they want you to buy from them at a significant mark up.  Requalifying your resale purchase is really no skin off their teeth, so it's a win-win. 

There is absolutely no incentive for them to prequalify a resale unit.  They've already been paid their huge markup when you bought from them at Princeville.  

My advice is to forget about requalifying altogether unless you really, really want to own three properties.  Instead, buy a mandatory unit which will automatically be in SVN or buy a cheaper voluntary unit and enjoy II for all it has to offer.


----------



## xbanker

Yes, I did it backwards...   
But I didn't know of this tugbbs.com site/forum until i had made the purchase.  Someone actually pointed me to this site which is how i'm getting so much info...after the fact.  I'm learning that requal has a lot of advantages, including the status upgrade...for me the only advantages i'm looking for is the ability to trade staroptions for other SVO villas and to trade to starpoints....not too keen on the status upgrade (at least for now).  Is there a way to achieve this without requal?  Again, sorry if i'm not stating things properly as i do have a lot to learn as being a newbie..   

and one more...according to the owner docs i received, there is no way to bank staroption points for use in future years...is there a way around this?  





LisaRex said:


> I'm afraid you've done it backward.  You should have bought the resale unit FIRST.  Then you go to the developer and say that you'll buy from them directly ONLY if they agree to requalify your resale purchase.  In this case, you have the leverage because they want you to buy from them at a significant mark up.  Requalifying your resale purchase is really no skin off their teeth, so it's a win-win.
> 
> There is absolutely no incentive for them to prequalify a resale unit.  They've already been paid their huge markup when you bought from them at Princeville.
> 
> My advice is to forget about requalifying altogether unless you really, really want to own three properties.  Instead, buy a mandatory unit which will automatically be in SVN or buy a cheaper voluntary unit and enjoy II for all it has to offer.


----------



## calgarygary

Starwood is currently allowing the combining of Staroptions from mandatory resorts purchased resale.  So if you purchase a resale at any of the mandatory resorts (most would point you in the direction of WKV) you could combine those staroptions with your developer purchase.  However, there is a huge caveat - there is nothing in writing that assures you that Starwood will allow you to combine those options.  They are currently doing it but that ability could disappear at a moment's notice.  So, if you want the temporary ability to combine options, buy a mandatory resale.


----------



## Politico

calgarygary said:


> Starwood is currently allowing the combining of Staroptions from mandatory resorts purchased resale.  So if you purchase a resale at any of the mandatory resorts (most would point you in the direction of WKV) you could combine those staroptions with your developer purchase.  However, there is a huge caveat - there is nothing in writing that assures you that Starwood will allow you to combine those options.  They are currently doing it but that ability could disappear at a moment's notice.  So, if you want the temporary ability to combine options, buy a mandatory resale.



With all the Starwood chagnes and lack of employee training on SVN rules, seems to me this feature would be an utter waste unless you got your right to combine SOs in writing.


----------



## DavidnRobin

xbanker said:


> Yes, I did it backwards...
> But I didn't know of this tugbbs.com site/forum until i had made the purchase.  Someone actually pointed me to this site which is how i'm getting so much info...after the fact.  I'm learning that requal has a lot of advantages, including the status upgrade...for me the only advantages i'm looking for is the ability to trade staroptions for other SVO villas and to trade to starpoints....not too keen on the status upgrade (at least for now).  Is there a way to achieve this without requal?  Again, sorry if i'm not stating things properly as i do have a lot to learn as being a newbie..
> 
> and one more...according to the owner docs i received, there is no way to bank staroption points for use in future years...is there a way around this?



Do not fret - you are not the first - nor will be the last to find TUG too late.  Focus on making the most of it.

You can buy a M resort resale and have the ability to exchange via SVN.
With resale - you will not be able to a SO-SP convert, but as stated (and not without disagreement by some) this benefit is not a good value (generally - although some find it to be good - and those are likely 5*/PFL because of the perks).

Look at it this way - for WPORV - worth 148.1K SOs - can be converted to 84K SPs - the MFs for WPORV are >$2000 - this means that for >$2000 you are getting 84K SPs upon conversion (unless you are 5*/PFL, then there is a bump in the amount of SPs). While you could certainly maximize your converted SP usage to make it worth >$2000 - you are giving up 14 nites at WPORV by separating the units (7 nites in the 1Bd and 7 nites in the studio) or 7 nites in the 2Bd LO.  I (and others) would argue that that is not a good deal.

HOWEVER - if you requal a cheap V resort that has low MFs and good conversion - and if you are 5*/PFL - then it works out better.

This is a simplification, but IMHO - do not bother requalifying unless you have a clear plan (like getting to 5*/PFL) and have tons of vacation time and money to spare (because owning enough VOIs to become 5*/PFL means that you will have many weeks to use - along with yearly MFs).

Therefore - in most cases - buy a V resort resale to use II, or buy a M resort resale to use SVN.  Forget about the benefit of converting SOs to SPs - unless you want to achieve the 5*/PFL.  Otherwise - you will be using fuzzy math to make it seem worthwhile.  (fuzzy math is what TS salespeople use to convince those unsuspecting vacationers to buy a TS from them)


----------



## pcandpetunia

*New Starwood Reactivate Rules*

I just spoke with Starwood.  They implemented a rule that if you want to grandfather in a unit purchased through resale, you must spend at least $20k with the developer.

PLUS...  you only get "home" advantage for each property you buy.  That is, if you purchase in Orlando in resale and purchase in AZ from the developer, you can't combine your Star Options from the two properties during the 12-10 month window.


----------



## LisaRex

pcandpetunia said:


> PLUS...  you only get "home" advantage for each property you buy.  That is, if you purchase in Orlando in resale and purchase in AZ from the developer, you can't combine your Star Options from the two properties during the 12-10 month window.



The home priority window is 8-12 months.  The StarOption exchange period is 3-8 months.  Owners have NEVER been able to use SOs during the home priority period, whether they are a resale owner or a developer owner.


----------



## Bill4728

Fcast said:


> I have 3 weeks purchased as resales.  I was told by starwood that to requalify you need to spend $20M on a new developer purchase to requalify a domestic location and $40M for Hawaii or other international locations.  This is for each unit you want to requalify.  She said the rules changed on May 1 and it is likely that Starwood would stop all requalifications in the future.:annoyed:





pcandpetunia said:


> I just spoke with Starwood.  They implemented a rule that if you want to grandfather in a unit purchased through resale, you must spend at least $20k with the developer.





Bill4728 said:


> I'm not an SVN expert like some of the others but :
> *"I was told by starwood that to requalify you need to spend $20M on a new developer purchase to requalify a domestic location and $40M for Hawaii or other international locations. " *This was and still is the rule.
> 
> I understand the rule change in May was you can't requalify/retro a resale week by "up-grading" that week any more. People were able to buy a 1 bd gold season unit resale, then trade that unit in (at the full developer price)  for an "up grade" And they were able to get their new unit in SVN *and *. retro a second unit at the same time. This option went away.



 petunia. As I said in the quote above: This is and has been the rule for some time.


> PLUS...  you only get "home" advantage for each property you buy.  That is, if you purchase in Orlando in resale and purchase in AZ from the developer, you can't combine your Star Options from the two properties during the 12-10 month window.


THis also has always been the rule, no matter how you bought your SO.


----------



## DeniseM

pcandpetunia said:


> I just spoke with Starwood.  They implemented a rule that if you want to grandfather in a unit purchased through resale, you must spend at least $20k with the developer.
> 
> PLUS...  you only get "home" advantage for each property you buy.  That is, if you purchase in Orlando in resale and purchase in AZ from the developer, you can't combine your Star Options from the two properties during the 12-10 month window.



When you combine Staroptions, you are, by definition, making an exchange, and the home advantage no longer applies.  Staroptions are only used for exchanging into a resort/season/or unit that is different than the one you own.  Exchanges can only be made from 0 - 8 mos. out.

Please see the Starwood FAQ at the top of the page for a lot of info. about how Starwood works.


----------



## pathways25

*Owner discount for requal*

I'm starting the process of buying a developer week from Starwood to requalify a resale.  I'm interested in getting an EOY Platnum week at WDW.  The current price list shows $25,300, but the salesman indicated that as an existing owner in Starwood, I qualify for 1/2 of the EY price which is $19,450 ($38,900 / 2).  Unfortunately, that is below 20K so he said I would need to forgo the discount in order to requalify the resale.

My question is, has anyone managed to work something out where you get most of the discount, say 5K leaving you above 20K or gotten Starwood to let something close to the limit slide by for requal purposes?  I'm having a lot of heartburn paying 6K more for being $550 short of 20K.


----------



## DeniseM

I would tell the salesman I'd pay $20K for the WDW week - take it or leave it, and be prepared to walk away. 

What are your goals in requalifying?

Since this is a voluntary resort, if you are a little patient, you will be able to buy it on the resale market for less than 50% of retail.


----------



## Joshadelic

If you actually do this, you should buy an Explorer Package.  Also, you should ask them to "fix" the week you're buying.  They charge more money for a fixed week and that should be enough to put you over $20k.


----------



## pathways25

Joshadelic said:


> If you actually do this, you should buy an Explorer Package.  Also, you should ask them to "fix" the week you're buying.  They charge more money for a fixed week and that should be enough to put you over $20k.



Are fixed weeks available EOY?  Also, how/where do you buy Explorer packages?


----------



## SDKath

Joshadelic said:


> If you actually do this, you should buy an Explorer Package.  Also, you should ask them to "fix" the week you're buying.  They charge more money for a fixed week and that should be enough to put you over $20k.



Great advice.  If you are close to the $20k mark, just ask them to "fix" the week for you (here is great chance to fix a week that is in high demand for rentals, ie NY, Xmas, Spring Break, Thanksgiving, etc).  They charge 10% more for that feature and not only will it push you above the spending limit, it will also allow you to avoid calling to make reservations year after year.  You can still "float" the week but you are guaranteed to have the fixed time available.  I had to do this on an SVV week I bought so I fixed a late March timeframe.  I know it rents well during that time but so far I have been using the StarOptions for it instead.

And no, you cannot "bank" SOs in any way.  Bummer, huh?  One of the biggest advantages to being 5* I just noticed though is that you can convert to SPs until October of the year!  So if for some reason I don't get around to using all my SOs one year, I can convert them to SPs up to Oct. and use for up to 7 years in hotels, airlines, giftcards, etc.  This little perk has come in handy this year already!

Katherine

Katherine


----------



## SDKath

jeromechen said:


> Are fixed weeks available EOY?  Also, how/where do you buy Explorer packages?



Yes, they are available to fix.  

EPs are tricky.  You need to get all the details.  There seem to be West Coast and East Coast EPs.  You need to ask the sales person when you purchase the EP if it would be applied towards your EOY purchase (if that's what you are planning) or for that particular resort (ie WDW EPs are different than EPs issued on the East for the FL properties...).  Also, there is supposed to be a "wait time" from when you buy the EP and when you can use it.  Many sales staff ignore this last rule. If you are informed, you can as a last resort pull the "if you sell me and EP and give me all these extra points, I will do this deal right now" type of a line....  More than likely they will wave the rule to make the sale in the end.  This I found harder to do over the phone!  It's easier to negotiate face to face.  Some rules can be bent (and some cannot no matter what you do -- the $20k limit seems to be firm right now).

Katherine


----------



## DavidnRobin

jeromechen said:


> I'm starting the process of buying a developer week from Starwood to requalify a resale.  I'm interested in getting an EOY Platnum week at WDW.  The current price list shows $25,300, but the salesman indicated that as an existing owner in Starwood, I qualify for 1/2 of the EY price which is $19,450 ($38,900 / 2).  Unfortunately, that is below 20K so he said I would need to forgo the discount in order to requalify the resale.
> 
> My question is, has anyone managed to work something out where you get most of the discount, say 5K leaving you above 20K or gotten Starwood to let something close to the limit slide by for requal purposes?  I'm having a lot of heartburn paying 6K more for being $550 short of 20K.



Everything is negotiable - I assume that you already have a resale that you want to requal (and are within ~$500 of the SVO established target) - call the salesperson's bluff - turn it around - state that you will buy this EOY WDW only if you can requal your resale - if they say 'No' - then threaten to walk away.  I bet that they will change their mind... why?  Because TS sales are seriously hurting - and it is no issue for them to allow your resale into SVN.  If this is a M resort that you are trying to requal - then even more reason to allow that requal because it is alredy in SVN (lesson learned...).

In addition - tell them you want to use a same-day EP - or get additional incentive SPs - to close the deal.  YOU control the negotiation - do not let THEM control it.

I think those who have done this will agree - if they come back with SVO Corp won't let it go thru - then walk away and see how quickly they change their stance for $500 (tell them you will walk away).

Whether you should be doing this in the first place (buying WDW and requaling) is another topic...


----------



## pathways25

SDKath said:


> Great advice.  If you are close to the $20k mark, just ask them to "fix" the week for you (here is great chance to fix a week that is in high demand for rentals, ie NY, Xmas, Spring Break, Thanksgiving, etc).  They charge 10% more for that feature and not only will it push you above the spending limit, it will also allow you to avoid calling to make reservations year after year.  You can still "float" the week but you are guaranteed to have the fixed time available.  I had to do this on an SVV week I bought so I fixed a late March timeframe.  I know it rents well during that time but so far I have been using the StarOptions for it instead.
> 
> And no, you cannot "bank" SOs in any way.  Bummer, huh?  One of the biggest advantages to being 5* I just noticed though is that you can convert to SPs until October of the year!  So if for some reason I don't get around to using all my SOs one year, I can convert them to SPs up to Oct. and use for up to 7 years in hotels, airlines, giftcards, etc.  This little perk has come in handy this year already!
> 
> Katherine
> 
> Katherine



That is an excellent idea!  I've read many complaints about WMH owners never being able to get in on weeks 51 and 52 so perhaps I'll just buy a WDW fixed week in that period to get me over the 20K threshold.

Regarding your comment about exchanging to SP's, are you allowed to exchange any amount of SO's to SP's or does it have to be exactly the amount of a 2BR lockoff or one of its subdivisions?  That is, can you just convert whatever amount you have leftover at the same ratio?  For example, at WMH, 148,100 SO's = 72,000 SP's, does that mean you can convert a left over 10,000 SO's to 4,861 SP's?


----------



## pathways25

DavidnRobin said:


> Everything is negotiable - I assume that you already have a resale that you want to requal (and are within ~$500 of the SVO established target) - call the salesperson's bluff - turn it around - state that you will buy this EOY WDW only if you can requal your resale - if they say 'No' - then threaten to walk away.  I bet that they will change their mind... why?  Because TS sales are seriously hurting - and it is no issue for them to allow your resale into SVN.  If this is a M resort that you are trying to requal - then even more reason to allow that requal because it is alredy in SVN (lesson learned...).
> 
> In addition - tell them you want to use a same-day EP - or get additional incentive SPs - to close the deal.  YOU control the negotiation - do not let THEM control it.
> 
> I think those who have done this will agree - if they come back with SVO Corp won't let it go thru - then walk away and see how quickly they change their stance for $500 (tell them you will walk away).
> 
> Whether you should be doing this in the first place (buying WDW and requaling) is another topic...



I realize that the timeshare market is in the dumps, but I'm not that good at this type of negotiation.  I should send you in as my agent!


----------



## SDKath

jeromechen said:


> That is an excellent idea!  I've read many complaints about WMH owners never being able to get in on weeks 51 and 52 so perhaps I'll just buy a WDW fixed week in that period to get me over the 20K threshold.
> 
> Regarding your comment about exchanging to SP's, are you allowed to exchange any amount of SO's to SP's or does it have to be exactly the amount of a 2BR lockoff or one of its subdivisions?  That is, can you just convert whatever amount you have leftover at the same ratio?  For example, at WMH, 148,100 SO's = 72,000 SP's, does that mean you can convert a left over 10,000 SO's to 4,861 SP's?



Nope.  It's all or nothing.  No partials unfortunately.

Oh, and WE ALL should send David as our agent!   

Katherine


----------



## DeniseM

jeromechen said:


> That is an excellent idea!  I've read many complaints about WMH owners never being able to get in on weeks 51 and 52 so perhaps I'll just buy a WDW fixed week in that period to get me over the 20K threshold.
> 
> Regarding your comment about exchanging to SP's, are you allowed to exchange any amount of SO's to SP's or does it have to be exactly the amount of a 2BR lockoff or one of its subdivisions?  That is, can you just convert whatever amount you have leftover at the same ratio?  For example, at WMH, 148,100 SO's = 72,000 SP's, does that mean you can convert a left over 10,000 SO's to 4,861 SP's?



With both Starpoints and Staroptions, you have to convert a whole week.  There is no transfer between points and options.  

So if you own a 2 bdm. lock-off, you can convert one side or the other, or you can convert both sides to Staroptions, every year.  

You can convert to Starpoints every other year, but that kind of defeats the purpose of buying a TS...

With left over Staroptions you have to use them by the end of the year or lose them.  Starpoints can roll over to the next year.

What are your goals for requalifying?


----------



## pointsjunkie

when i was ready to buy from starwood to requalify i tried to offer them the extra money to come up to the $20000 and they wouldn't do it.


----------



## LisaRex

pointsjunkie said:


> when i was ready to buy from starwood to requalify i tried to offer them the extra money to come up to the $20000 and they wouldn't do it.



Did you walk away? 

My father walked away over $100 when buying a truck.  Then he went to another dealer and bought a truck from them.  By the time he got home, the salesperson, and his manager, had called and left several msgs offering not only the $100 difference, but free carwashes for a year.


----------



## pathways25

DeniseM said:


> With both Starpoints and Staroptions, you have to convert a whole week.  There is no transfer between points and options.
> 
> So if you own a 2 bdm. lock-off, you can convert one side or the other, or you can convert both sides to Staroptions, every year.  You can convert to Starpoints every other year, but that kind of defeats the purpose of buying a TS...
> 
> With left over Staroptions you have to use them by the end of the year or lose them.  Starpoints can roll over to the next year.



If you are an elite SVN member, can you convert the same half of a 2BR lockoff ever year?  I see myself using the 81K half of a 2BR lockoff every year and wanting to convert the 67K half.  Is that allowed?


----------



## DeniseM

jeromechen said:


> If you are an elite SVN member, can you convert the same half of a 2BR lockoff ever year?  I see myself using the 81K half of a 2BR lockoff every year and wanting to convert the 67K half.  Is that allowed?



Elite members can convert every year.  Here is the Elite Member Chart.

Is your ultimate goal to reach 5 Star Elite?  Because it's not worth buying from the developer just to reach 3 Star.


----------



## tlpnet

DavidnRobin said:


> Everything is negotiable - I assume that you already have a resale that you want to requal (and are within ~$500 of the SVO established target) - call the salesperson's bluff - turn it around - state that you will buy this EOY WDW only if you can requal your resale - if they say 'No' - then threaten to walk away. I bet that they will change their mind... why? Because TS sales are seriously hurting - and it is no issue for them to allow your resale into SVN. If this is a M resort that you are trying to requal - then even more reason to allow that requal because it is alredy in SVN (lesson learned...).
> 
> In addition - tell them you want to use a same-day EP - or get additional incentive SPs - to close the deal. YOU control the negotiation - do not let THEM control it.
> 
> I think those who have done this will agree - if they come back with SVO Corp won't let it go thru - then walk away and see how quickly they change their stance for $500 (tell them you will walk away).
> 
> Whether you should be doing this in the first place (buying WDW and requaling) is another topic...


 
Guaranteed - they WILL let you walk away for the $500 difference. They will not make an exception to this rule. I tried to do the same thing, and my difference was only $5 - $40,000 vs. $39,995 (WSJ). You can try it, but don't expect a phone call from them making a special exception. On the flip side, you'll be able to get the same deal in a few weeks when you conclude that they're not going to call you back and offer it up. You can then fix the week as Josh and Katherine suggested if you still want to do the purchase/retro. If you can get a great fixed week, this is all that much better of a plan, and it is the least expensive way to do what you are attempting to do.

Starwood does not negotiate prices, only incentives. There are also a few rules that they will not break, and this is one of them. I've heard that retro/requalifications are being scrutinized more than ever by SW Corporate. I agree that seems silly given the current economic condition, but Starwood and logic don't always seem to be on the same path.

-tim


----------



## SDKath

I am almost certain you cannot convert only 1/2 of a 2br LO to Starpoints.  Or are we talking about SOs now?  Lost track...  K


----------



## DeniseM

SDKath said:


> I am almost certain you cannot convert only 1/2 of a 2br LO to Starpoints.  Or are we talking about SOs now?  Lost track...  K



You definitely can convert one side of a 2 bdm. lock-off to either Starpoints or Staroptions.


----------



## Henry M.

I am also certain you can convert either half of a lock-off to Starpoints. For WKORV, for instance, it is something like 33,000 Starpoints for the Studio and 47,000 for the 1BR. I don't know the exact number of Starpoints, but I do know it can be done.


----------



## LisaRex

emuyshondt said:


> I am also certain you can convert either half of a lock-off to Starpoints. For WKORV, for instance, it is something like 33,000 Starpoints for the Studio and 47,000 for the 1BR. I don't know the exact number of Starpoints, but I do know it can be done.



You are correct.  Acc. to the User Guide:

https://www.mystarcentral.com/reference/userguide/starpoints/sp_ex5.jsp

When to Convert Your Week   

Lockoff Owner: Non-consecutive Use Year
You can convert your week to Starpoints in non-consecutive use years. This means that after converting your week to Starpoints, you must wait at least 1 use year before converting again.

However, since you own a 2-Bedroom Lockoff Villa, you have the unique ability to utilize the Starpoints conversion feature every year by alternately converting a 1-Bedroom side of your villa.

For example, in the use year 2004, you could vacation in the 1-Bedroom side of your 2-Bedroom Lockoff Villa and convert the 1-Bedroom Premium side to Starpoints. Then in 2005, you could vacation in the 1-Bedroom Premium side and convert the 1-Bedroom side to Starpoints.


----------



## pathways25

SDKath said:


> Yes, they are available to fix.
> 
> EPs are tricky.  You need to get all the details.  There seem to be West Coast and East Coast EPs.  You need to ask the sales person when you purchase the EP if it would be applied towards your EOY purchase (if that's what you are planning) or for that particular resort (ie WDW EPs are different than EPs issued on the East for the FL properties...).  Also, there is supposed to be a "wait time" from when you buy the EP and when you can use it.  Many sales staff ignore this last rule. If you are informed, you can as a last resort pull the "if you sell me and EP and give me all these extra points, I will do this deal right now" type of a line....  More than likely they will wave the rule to make the sale in the end.  This I found harder to do over the phone!  It's easier to negotiate face to face.  Some rules can be bent (and some cannot no matter what you do -- the $20k limit seems to be firm right now).
> 
> Katherine



I just spoke with a SVO sales rep and he told me they categorically do not fix weeks for EOY intervals.  They offer fixed weeks for EY intervals only. :annoyed: 

Are there any other ideas on how to raise the price of a EOY WDW from $19,450 to 20K plus for a retro (without going all the way to $25,300)?


----------



## gravitar

LisaRex said:


> However, since you own a 2-Bedroom Lockoff Villa, you have the unique ability to utilize the Starpoints conversion feature every year by alternately converting a 1-Bedroom side of your villa.



If you happen to be elite at any level, the requirement to alternate what side you convert goes away


----------



## grgs

jeromechen said:


> Are there any other ideas on how to raise the price of a EOY WDW from $19,450 to 20K plus for a retro (without going all the way to $25,300)?



I sent you a PM.

Glorian


----------



## DavidnRobin

Sorry to hear - I would inform them that it is too bad that you will need to walk away over this over a few dollars and that in today's economy you are surprised that SVO wouldn't step forward to accomadate you - and wait for a response - if not - then walk away - IMO


----------



## SDKath

jeromechen said:


> I just spoke with a SVO sales rep and he told me they categorically do not fix weeks for EOY intervals.  They offer fixed weeks for EY intervals only. :annoyed:
> 
> Are there any other ideas on how to raise the price of a EOY WDW from $19,450 to 20K plus for a retro (without going all the way to $25,300)?



You need a different sales rep.  PM me and I can give you info for the 2 I have worked with who both have fixed EOYs for me without a problem.

Avoid the Orlando (mail 800#)  sales office.  Lots of newbies there who drown from all the little rules...

Katherine


----------



## philyphan

According to a friend of mine, the reps that you have worked with are no longer with the company and you only have 1 eoy and it IS NOT fixed.  You need to be more responsible when posting.  Your 5 Star Elite process is also outdated and cost many people lots of money who are now stuck with resale weeks that can't be upgraded.  

The company is no longer playing games with people trying to beat the system, and it is because of this site.  I hope you are all happy.


----------



## tomandrobin

philyphan said:


> I hope you are all happy.



I am Happy! :whoopie:


----------



## pointsjunkie

philyphan said:


> According to a friend of mine, the reps that you have worked with are no longer with the company and you only have 1 eoy and it IS NOT fixed.  You need to be more responsible when posting.  Your 5 Star Elite process is also outdated and cost many people lots of money who are now stuck with resale weeks that can't be upgraded.
> 
> The company is no longer playing games with people trying to beat the system, and it is because of this site.  I hope you are all happy.



can you be specific as to what they are not allowing? we don't want to keep any info that is not relevant. this site is to help people not to cause them to spend extra money or to guide them down the wrong path.

we can only give the info that we have experienced and at the time was helpful to many people. anyone who is going down the path to 5* and has more updated info we would love to hear from you.

once you get to 5* there is no way to find out how Starwood changes the path to get there. a person who reads the requalifying thread should ask a sales person many question to see what is allowed now and what is not before you take the plunge, so just in case, as you stated the info that worked for us is no longer allowed then you would know how to proceed.


----------



## DavidnRobin

appropriate monikor phillyphan.

i too am happy...
{wtf?}


i would certainly make sure i read the entire thread before doing anything - and still the rules may change - so caveat emptor


----------



## DeniseM

philyphan said:


> According to a friend of mine, the reps that you have worked with are no longer with the company and you only have 1 eoy and it IS NOT fixed.  You need to be more responsible when posting.  Your 5 Star Elite process is also outdated and cost many people lots of money who are now stuck with resale weeks that can't be upgraded.
> 
> The company is no longer playing games with people trying to beat the system, and it is because of this site.  I hope you are all happy.



First of all, it sounds like you got your info. from someone at Starwood and it's heavy on the sour grapes side.  If I was a TS salesman, I'd be whiney too - resales have to be killing their high commissions!

Secondly, you are telling us that *someone at Starwood disclosed confidential owner info. to you and you posted it here* - that is appalling! 

I really hope Starwood is reading this post.

If you are so unhappy with the info. we provide here, then I suggest that you vote with your feet, or mouse in this case....

***After browsing back through your old posts, I am very suspicious about who you really are and what your connection to Starwood is.  For someone who isn't an owner, you have a very strange preoccupation with defending everything Starwood does.


----------



## DeniseM

Guess what!  This poster works for Starwood!  She (or someone else with Starwood)  registered another user name from the same IP address and used her Starwood email address in her registration.   :hysterical: 

You are SO BUSTED!


----------



## pointsjunkie

DeniseM said:


> Guess what! This poster works for Starwood! She (or someone else with Starwood) registered another user name from the same IP address and used her Starwood email address in her registration.   :hysterical:
> 
> You are SO BUSTED!



are you kidding me, and i was feeling bad that people bought resales that they could not requalify because the rules had changed.


----------



## DeniseM

The plot thickens:

There are 15 registered users on TUG using that IP address, and half of them listed their SVO email address on their registration.  It must be their IP address at work.

However, Philyphan is the only one who has actually posted - the others are just lurkers...

Here is a link to her other posts:  [The link didn't work - see below.]


----------



## Politico

Hmm. Denise, the link does not work for me.   But, now I take it that Starwood (at least some employees there) has read our posts about the II non-SVN deposit issue (Starwood wants to control the week we deposit), yet has done nothing about it.  Sadly, I can only conclude that thier inaction on the issue is purposeful.  Shame on you Starwood.


----------



## pathways25

DeniseM said:


> The plot thickens:
> 
> There are 15 registered users on TUG using that IP address, and half of them listed their SVO email address on their registration.  It must be their IP address at work.
> 
> However, Philyphan is the only one who has actually posted - the others are just lurkers...
> 
> Here is a link to her other posts:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2266374



That link doesn't seem to work for me.  Do you need to be an admin to use it?


----------



## DeniseM

Politico said:


> Hmm. Denise, the link does not work for me.



Ok try this - go here and click "find all posts by Philyphan."


----------



## nodge

DeniseM said:


> The plot thickens:
> 
> There are 15 registered users on TUG using that IP address, and half of them listed their SVO email address on their registration.  It must be their IP address at work.
> 
> However, Philyphan is the only one who has actually posted - the others are just lurkers...



Did any of them pony up the $15 to actually join TUG?

When can we expect the poll asking if TUG should publish their email addresses?  I vote "YES!!!!!"

-nodge


----------



## DeniseM

nodge said:


> Did any of them pony up the $15 to actually join TUG?
> 
> When can we expect the poll asking if TUG should publish their email addresses?  I vote "YES!!!!!"
> 
> -nodge



Nope - they all registered as guests....

I'll get to that poll right away!  :rofl:


----------



## SDKath

philyphan said:


> According to a friend of mine, the reps that you have worked with are no longer with the company and you only have 1 eoy and it IS NOT fixed.  You need to be more responsible when posting.  Your 5 Star Elite process is also outdated and cost many people lots of money who are now stuck with resale weeks that can't be upgraded.
> 
> The company is no longer playing games with people trying to beat the system, and it is because of this site.  I hope you are all happy.



Okaaay, I just reread this guy's post (and I am now wondering if this person actually looked up my account to know that I only have 1 EOY.  He/she works for Starwood right?  And if that is the case, I am going to do my darnest to report this lurker because it is a breach of privacy to just go looking up people's accounts and then proceeding to post them on a board.  How exactly do you know that I only have one EOY and it's not fixed??????????  Pray tell, because nowhere at TUG do I actually post my ownership info to that detail. 


Katherine


----------



## nodge

philyphan said:


> I hope you are all happy.



Johnny?!?  Is that you?

-nodge


----------



## pathways25

philyphan said:


> According to a friend of mine, the reps that you have worked with are no longer with the company and you only have 1 eoy and it IS NOT fixed.  You need to be more responsible when posting.  Your 5 Star Elite process is also outdated and cost many people lots of money who are now stuck with resale weeks that can't be upgraded.
> 
> The company is no longer playing games with people trying to beat the system, and it is because of this site.  I hope you are all happy.



Why do you say people are trying to "beat the system"?  Starwood makes the rules and we follow them.  As buyers, it is our responsibility to obtain the best possible price while conforming to the rules that have been laid out.  After all, why would you pay 30K for a car when (without resorting to illegal or unethical behavior) you could pay 20K for it?

Are you saying that SDKath has violated an established rule or acted unethically?


----------



## Ken555

Denise,

Thanks for posting this info. While we knew Starwood employees frequented this forum, it's good to have confirmation. 

Their stupidity in registering their accounts with a Starwood email address (and doing so at work) simply illustrates their lack of vision with their inability to provide a thorough product to their customers. Their thoughts are always on the sale, and not on the customer service. 

Of course, I'm sure there are more intelligent Starwood employees with accounts on TUG. They're probably just using a gmail, hotmail, or other free email account (and registering at their home).

And with Kath's confidential info published online, it's clear at least one Starwood employee doesn't know the meaning of liability exposure. 

All TUG members should be aware that their posts are being read by the timeshare companies themselves. And, at least in this instance with SVO, they are identifying us. Your guess is as good as mine what they then do what that info.

If only SVO put as much effort into implementing an online reservation system...


----------



## Politico

Kath--

I think you should take this issue up to the highest level.  This i sa serious breach of privacy.  Flagrant abuses like this should not go unaddressed. By the way, is the poster correct that your rep is no longer there? I believe I worked with the same rep. You can PM me on that if you prefer.


----------



## tomandrobin

Politico said:


> Kath--
> 
> I think you should take this issue up to the highest level.  This i sa serious breach of privacy.  Flagrant abuses like this should not go unaddressed. By the way, is the poster correct that your rep is no longer there? I believe I worked with the same rep. You can PM me on that if you prefer.



There was an article in the news this morning of another State Department employee pleading guilty of snooping into passports of others, violating their rights. 

News Article

 	  WASHINGTON (AP) - A fifth State Department worker has been convicted of snooping into the passport files of famous Americans.

Kevin Young, a 22-year veteran of the State Department from Temple Hills, Md., pleaded guilty Monday to illegally accessing more than 125 confidential passport applications for celebrities, professional athletes and a politician.

An investigation began in March 2008 after officials discovered unauthorized access of the files for then-presidential candidates Barack Obama, John McCain and Hillary Rodham Clinton.
The applications contain a photograph and personal information and are protected under federal privacy laws.


----------



## LisaRex

SDKath, you need to contact Starwood and ask them for their Privacy Policy.  Any company that collects data is required to have one.  What Philyphan has done almost certainly violates Starwood's Privacy policies because he/she has disclosed confidential information without your permission.  

The fact that he/she did it on a public forum makes the violation more egregious.

We are required to take Privacy Training each year at my company and take it very seriously.  If one of us went onto a bulletin board and divulged PII (Personally Identifiable Information) about one of the posters without their explicit permission, _even if it was to say something positive_, the employee would be dismissed.


----------



## philyphan

LisaRex said:


> SDKath, you need to contact Starwood and ask them for their Privacy Policy.  Any company that collects data is required to have one.  What Philyphan has done almost certainly violates Starwood's Privacy policies because he/she has disclosed confidential information without your permission.
> 
> The fact that he/she did it on a public forum makes the violation more egregious.
> 
> We are required to take Privacy Training each year at my company and take it very seriously.  If one of us went onto a bulletin board and divulged PII (Personally Identifiable Information) about one of the posters without their explicit permission, _even if it was to say something positive_, the employee would be dismissed.


Everyone is quick to get someone fired and noone has addressed the root of the issue.  The information posted to innocent people looking for help is getting lied to by the people on this site, telling people they can buy fixed eoys and spending less than 20 k to retro.  When you all know this is untrue.  This has cost a lot of people lots of money who are now stuck with weeks they didnt want.  Who wants to apologize to those folks?????


----------



## Politico

philyphan said:


> Everyone is quick to get someone fired and noone has addressed the root of the issue.  The information posted to innocent people looking for help is getting lied to by the people on this site, telling people they can buy fixed eoys and spending less than 20 k to retro.  When you all know this is untrue.  This has cost a lot of people lots of money who are now stuck with weeks they didnt want.  Who wants to apologize to those folks?????



Wow. You are only digging the hole deeper buddy.  Although I entirely disagree with the premise of your response, let me tell you that if those folks who purpotedly are stuck with weeks they don't want knew that Starwood employees posted customers' personal information on public boards, the privacy breach would be far more concerning.  And I suspect that you will learn that soon.....

What you did here is egregious and likely grounds for dismissal. I don't wish that upon you. But, why don't you start with an apology to SDKath first? Then maybe you could work with TUG to make sure that timeshare customers have the most accurate information available.


----------



## gravitar

philyphan said:


> Everyone is quick to get someone fired and noone has addressed the root of the issue.  The information posted to innocent people looking for help is getting lied to by the people on this site, telling people they can buy fixed eoys and spending less than 20 k to retro.  When you all know this is untrue.  This has cost a lot of people lots of money who are now stuck with weeks they didnt want.  Who wants to apologize to those folks?????



Why don't you

Publicly identify those people you know have been "lied to"
Publish a thread that shows at what point these people made decisions on what and how to buy linking that to the timeline of information published here and also to the dates of the SVN rules changes about retro, etc.

As with everything else, anything posted on the internet should be verified. Anyone who did not do their own due diligence has only themselves to blame. There is always the risk in any transaction that the rules may change before it completes.

The biggest risk is that the implied promise of Starwood, SPG, and the SVN being available to us forever is unsustainable. Given the current economic climate, what happens if Starwood sells SVN. It's within their rights. Who will apologize to all those people who bought without understanding this could happen?

Does SVN want to apologize to those who they took money from for the Cabo project who are now out tens of thousands of dollars?

Nobody is perfect. Keep your eyes open and verify everything.

As far as violating privacy laws, you are on your own.


----------



## gravitar

Oh, and I own multiple weeks, they are developer purchases and I am happy with them! :whoopie:


----------



## rickandcindy23

I think Starwood would be interested that an employee is spending time here, rather than WORKING!  If it's a salesperson, he/she is just bitter about slow sales right now.  I would think Starwood would OPEN UP the possibilities of getting 5 star and not close them down, if they can sell something.


----------



## LisaRex

philyphan said:


> Everyone is quick to get someone fired and noone has addressed the root of the issue.  The information posted to innocent people looking for help is getting lied to by the people on this site, telling people they can buy fixed eoys and spending less than 20 k to retro.  When you all know this is untrue.  This has cost a lot of people lots of money who are now stuck with weeks they didnt want.  Who wants to apologize to those folks?????



First of all, you could have made the point you made without divulging information that you had no business knowing, let alone divulging on a public message board.  In my company, that would be a cause for termination.  If that is cause for your termination, and that of your friend who assessed a client's personal information and blabbed it to you, then you can only blame yourselves. It's not nice, it's not professional, and it's probably illegal.  

Secondly, I certainly don't know whether or not people can buy fixed eoy's and/or at what price, because I have no interest in such matters, so I don't KNOW what is true or untrue.  I will say that anyone who plans to sink tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars into a scheme had darn well better have more to go on than the well-intentioned advice of a message board poster.  

I think the two biggest rules for retroing remain the same: 1) Get it in writing; and 2) Know upfront that the rules for achieving status, and the benefits associated with status, can change at any time.


----------



## nodge

philyphan said:


> Everyone is quick to get someone fired and noone has addressed the root of the issue.  The information posted to innocent people looking for help is getting lied to by the people on this site . . . ..



Philyphan,

I think it is fair to say that the information posted on TUG by us regular posters is accurate as of the time of posting, but the accuracy of that information tends to change over time because SVO changes its policies and procedures faster than a speeding bullet, except without that whole superhero thing.  Because of this, we TUGGERS routinely advise potential requallers to get their requal deals IN WRITING  (See, here, here, and here, for example).

For an SVO employee to blame TUG and its members for failing to keep up with SVO’s random, non-published, nonsense, screw existing owners to make a buck, changes is nothing more than SVO attempting to blame the messenger for its own bad acts.

Thank God you have arrived PhilyPhan to set the record straight on behalf of SVO!  In addition to updating the current requal rules, would you please be so kind as to explain SVO’s reasoning behind (and of course letting us know what appropriate notice SVO gave to owners and potential new SVO customers for) these changes to SVO’s system too?  My records are missing any information regarding that whole “notice from SVO” thing, except of course for the email from the SVO VP of “Owner Services” killing the elite villa upgrade benefit while the ink was still drying on my elite member enrollment form.

Oh yeah, please add to that list an explanation as to why Starwood corporate is hiding its major hotel business losses by "pull[ing] cash out of the [timeshare] business," and what the long term plan and survivability of SVO, including your precious job, can really be under such circumstances.

We wait with baited breath for SVO’s explanation of these issues, and you PhilyPhan are just the man/woman to finally set the record straight on behalf of your most noble and respected company that, apparently so far as you think, has nothing to hide.

-nodge


----------



## Politico

philyphan, 
And we're also waiting on an explanation on why Starwood insists it can select the week deposited for non-svn weeks deposited in II (e.g. resale SDO week).  Thank you very much.


----------



## jarta

Philyphan,   ...   Really, you need to take your comments elsewhere.

I have found Starwood has, by lack of supervision or design, allowed its salespeople and supervisors of salespeople discretion to "bend the rules" at times to close a sale.  Then, when the "bending" for a particular sale hits TUG, 2 things happen.

First, TUGGERS broadcast it as a new "rule" in effect for all Starwood purchases.  Thus, anyone who reads this BB naturally wants the same treatment under the "rules."  They bombard Starwood with requests for equal treatment and, if denied, blame Starwood for not knowing or complying with its own "rules."  Starwood loses prestige, not to mention credibility that the price of the week is actually the price.

Second, Starwood gets wind that TUG is advertising a "favor" that was done outside the "rules" to make a sale as a new Starwood "rule."  Starwood undoubtedly resents the publication of a sales technique meant to close an individual sale as a new "rule" that's applicable to everybody.  Starwood knows that if everybody gets a "bending of the rules," the price of the unit has effectively dropped.  So, Starwood reacts by "changing the rule" back to what it was and plugging what it considers to be a loophole.

I'm sure Starwood is not happy that the "rules" have been bent in so many cases.  And, when they are, that the instances turn up here.  Is that your problem?  Did someone in Starwood management bark at you or your friends?

So, whose fault is it?  This is a BB and TUG is designed to let people know about how to use the Starwood "rules" to their best advantage.  (But, TUG is not limited to posting information about Starwood.)  BTW, you are not making things easier for your soon to be ex-employer.  Defending the indefensible is itself indefensible.  lol!

Better you should take a hike.      ...   eom


----------



## calgarygary

I disagree with Jarta - stay & play Philyphan.  I happen to believe that no one in this labour market is dumb enough to jeopardize their job by posting on this bb so like the Starwood posters at flyertalk, I think you have been sent here on a mission.  Your mission has been busted and now it is time to fess up and start answering the many posts that will fly your way.  Let's begin with some of the same problem solving that goes on at flyertalk.  How about getting Starwood to accept the non SVN contracts as they are written and allow those Starwood owners to deposit their selected weeks into II.


----------



## nodge

calgarygary said:


> stay & play Philyphan.



Indeed Philyphan!  We have both a soapbox and a shovel for you to borrow.  Your choice on which to use.  

(Hint, hint . . . Put down the shovel.  You've already dug yourself in deep enough . . . ..)

-nodge


----------



## DeniseM

calgarygary said:


> I disagree with Jarta - stay & play Philyphan.  I happen to believe that no one in this labour market is dumb enough to jeopardize their job by posting on this bb so like the Starwood posters at flyertalk, I think you have been sent here on a mission.



Gary, you may be right, but if you read back through the poster's other posts you will see a significant lack of good will, and not much sophistication as far as writing or reasoning.  I can't imagine Starwood "sending" someone like this  to represent their company.  I'll bet you a Mai Tai that this person is acting independently - especially since they posted confidential info. from an owner's Acct.


----------



## James1975NY

*Wow!*

That is all that I have to say


----------



## Weez

DeniseM said:


> Gary, you may be right, but if you read back through the poster's other posts you will see a significant lack of good will, and not much sophistication as far as writing or reasoning.  I can't imagine Starwood "sending" someone like this  to represent their company.  I'll bet you a Mai Tai that this person is acting independently - especially since they posted confidential info. from an owner's Acct.



DeniseM,

I have to ask the question, are you pursuing this further? (I hope)


----------



## LisaRex

Weez said:


> DeniseM,
> 
> I have to ask the question, are you pursuing this further? (I hope)



DeniseM has no standing (e.g. she was not harmed in any way).  It would be SDKath who has a cause of action.


----------



## DeniseM

LisaRex said:


> DeniseM has no standing (e.g. she was not harmed in any way).  It would be SDKath who has a cause of action.



Lisa is correct...


----------



## Bill4728

DeniseM said:


> Gary, you may be right, but if you read back through the poster's other posts you will see a significant lack of good will, and not much sophistication as far as writing or reasoning.  I can't imagine Starwood "sending" someone like this  to represent their company.  I'll bet you a Mai Tai that this person is acting independently - especially since they posted confidential info. from an owner's Acct.





Weez said:


> DeniseM,
> 
> I have to ask the question, are you pursuing this further? (I hope)





LisaRex said:


> DeniseM has no standing (e.g. she was not harmed in any way).  It would be SDKath who has a cause of action.


No, I think Weez is asking if Denise is pursing her Mai Tai?


----------



## Weez

LisaRex said:


> DeniseM has no standing (e.g. she was not harmed in any way).  It would be SDKath who has a cause of action.



She would need to be involved,  DeniseM has access to the ip address(s) and the email address(s) that registered each account. I wouldnt really want to see those names emails and ips released to SDKath that would be on par with what has already taken place.


----------



## Weez

Bill4728 said:


> No, I think Weez is asking if Denise is pursing her Mai Tai?



lol that too


----------



## calgarygary

Bill4728 said:


> No, I think Weez is asking if Denise is pursing her Mai Tai?



Give me a break!   Let me first agree to the bet before she chases me down for payment.   I think it is still quite possible that Starwood threw our bbs at some new hire that was not just drinking the kool aid but mixing it for those around him/her.  Enthusiasm may have replaced common sense but I still can't imagine someone coming to the defence of their company at the risk of their job.  I can believe that some one was given a job to do and did it incompetently.  Maybe this is one of the new jobs created by the good cop.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Just got back from a biz trip to Boston - and must just LOL at this thread (good to see some pick-up).  I wish I knew about this before because my response to PP would have been harsher. (in case you were not aware - Philly fans are well-known for being rude and obnoxious).

Dude - you are an idiot - post here or don't - I do not give a flying [Frito].  However, who was ever lied to on TUG?  Link a single post of a lie - other than yours of course.


----------



## DeniseM

philyphan seems to be lying low today, but he/she did visit TUG early this morning.  My guess is that he/she is tied up with personnel meetings today!


----------



## duke

*From the OP*

I am the original poster of this thread and if you go back and read the first post you will see that the same rules apply now.

It's important to point out that the idea of Retro or Requalifing a resale was given to me by a SVO sales manager.  He was helpful and, of course, wanted to sell a timeshare, but also was trying to help me.  Nobody was gaming the system.  The deal had to work out best for each party.  You know the drill.

I welcome the many persons from SVO who Denise found were registered.  Their ability to get input from us only makes the system better.  Moreover, the actual posting by this SVO person provides us additional information to make a better decision.

Even better would be a person like "Starwood Lurker" on FlyerTalk.  I can't even explain the value he has brought to that forum.

Lighten up on comments.  It's to our advantage to have SVO persons monitoring and posting on this board.

And by the way, I welcome SVO looking me up in their system to figure out who I actually am. Then please send me a big fruit plate and some champagne when I check in instead of the crappy candy and form letter from the resort manager.

duke


----------



## DavidnRobin

I too welcome SVO to post on TUG.   However, I will not tolerate lies and misinformation by anyone - just as I will not tolerate them during an Owner's update.  I am still trying to figure out what lies PP was referring too.

Everyone who has read this seminal resale thread (all the way thru) - along with Katherine's thread - would also know that the rules change over time (whether or not they were changed by SVO in response to these threads) - and it is SVO who controls the rules.  The 'Negma' clause clearly states that one should not take the verbal word of a salesperson - and get it in writing - as we did for our 'deal'.

SVO TUG plays an advisory role in this TS game - what ever is stated on TUG should also be used with caution - since the SVO rules can change at anytime unless it is in the signed VOI contract.


----------



## DeniseM

duke said:


> Lighten up on comments.  It's to our advantage to have SVO persons monitoring and posting on this board.
> 
> And by the way, I welcome SVO looking me up in their system to figure out who I actually am. Then please send me a big fruit plate and some champagne when I check in instead of the crappy candy and form letter from the resort manager.
> 
> duke



No one has criticized the SVO lurkers - I wish they would post!  

But there is no way that philyphan's behavior is acceptable.


----------



## n2fc

*Questions & info...*

I would appreciate some knowledgeable person to attempt answers to the following...

1) We own 2 weeks in Vistana Fountains (developer purchased) that were brought in to SVN post-refurb for a total of 152,000 SO

2) I am interested in achieving Elite status (minimum 159,000 SO for 3*)

3) I have 4 (resale) Vistana Courts weeks that will probably be brought into SVN after refurb (maybe)...

QUESTIONS:
1) Does mere ownership of the requisite SO total get you Elite status?
2) If I purchase a resale at a mandatory resort will thet get me Elite or is something else necessary?
3) If the Courts weeks get brought in to SVN after the refurb also, will those SO get me Elite without the need for additional developer purchases?

Inquiring minds want to know...
TIA and Happy New Year!

PS: Latest Starwood site shows they raised the req. for 5* Elite to 649,000 SO! What is to stop them from perpetually raising the requirements?


----------



## pointsjunkie

n2fc said:


> I would appreciate some knowledgeable person to attempt answers to the following...
> 
> 1) We own 2 weeks in Vistana Fountains (developer purchased) that were brought in to SVN post-refurb for a total of 152,000 SO
> 
> 2) I am interested in achieving Elite status (minimum 159,000 SO for 3*)
> 
> 3) I have 4 (resale) Vistana Courts weeks that will probably be brought into SVN after refurb (maybe)...
> 
> QUESTIONS:
> 1) Does mere ownership of the requisite SO total get you Elite status?
> 2) If I purchase a resale at a mandatory resort will thet get me Elite or is something else necessary?
> 3) If the Courts weeks get brought in to SVN after the refurb also, will those SO get me Elite without the need for additional developer purchases?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know...
> TIA and Happy New Year!
> 
> PS: Latest Starwood site shows they raised the req. for 5* Elite to 649,000 SO! What is to stop them from perpetually raising the requirements?



good question. if the courts are brought in then the amount of staroptions you will have will determine 3 or 4*.


----------



## Ken555

n2fc said:


> Latest Starwood site shows they raised the req. for 5* Elite to 649,000 SO! What is to stop them from perpetually raising the requirements?



Nothing. Starwood has unilateral right to change, or even discontinue, SVN and membership levels (and benefits...) at any time.


----------



## DeniseM

n2fc said:


> I would appreciate some knowledgeable person to attempt answers to the following...
> 
> 1) We own 2 weeks in Vistana Fountains (developer purchased) that were brought in to SVN post-refurb for a total of 152,000 SO
> 
> 2) I am interested in achieving Elite status (minimum 159,000 SO for 3*)



What are you goals in reaching Elite status?  i.e. - what do you hope to achieve?



> 3) I have 4 (resale) Vistana Courts weeks that will probably be brought into SVN after refurb (maybe)...



Did you buy these weeks recently or some time in the past?  It's hard to say, but the word on this has been that only people who bought previous to a certain date will be allowed to join the SVN.  (Not current resale owners.)



> QUESTIONS:
> 1) Does mere ownership of the requisite SO total get you Elite status?



*Correction (sorry) - Yes - if purchased from the developer or requalified.
*


> 2) If I purchase a resale at a mandatory resort will thet get me Elite or is something else necessary?



*Correction - (my error-sorry) - the correct answer is no, they must be requalified  (thanks grgs) - 
*


> From the SVN Elite Terms & Conditions listed on MSC:
> 
> 4. Only authorized SVN Resorts may offer and enroll SVN Members into SVN Elite. Starwood VOIs purchased through an unauthorized third party broker or on the resale market do not qualify for SVN Elite Membership.4. Only authorized SVN Resorts may offer and enroll SVN Members into SVN Elite. Starwood VOIs purchased through an unauthorized third party broker or on the resale market do not qualify for SVN Elite Membership.


 
See the other requalifying thread for SDKath's strategy.



> 3) If the Courts weeks get brought in to SVN after the refurb also, will those SO get me Elite without the need for additional developer purchases?



I would think so.



> Inquiring minds want to know...
> TIA and Happy New Year!
> 
> PS: Latest Starwood site shows they raised the req. for 5* Elite to 649,000 SO! What is to stop them from perpetually raising the requirements?



There is nothing to stop them - in fact, there is nothing to stop them from eliminating  any Elite perk, or eliminating the program all together.  They have already eliminated one of the most attractive features (automatic timeshare upgrades for Elite owners.)


----------



## rani

*Hra Timeshare*

Hi all,

I own two 3 bed lock-offs at hra which i bought in 2008 from starwood directly and have a 3* elite status. I'm in the process of buying a 1 bed in the
platinum season privatlely, my lawyer in the Bahamas is dealing with the harbourside lawyers directly.Would my new purchase be counted towards
my elite status?


----------



## Bill4728

rani said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I own two 3 bed lock-offs at hra which i bought in 2008 from starwood directly and have a 3* elite status. I'm in the process of buying a 1 bed in the
> platinum season privatlely, my lawyer in the Bahamas is dealing with the harbourside lawyers directly.Would my new purchase be counted towards
> my elite status?



NO  unless you want to buy yet another TS direct from starwood (after this resale closes) you can't get this resale to count toward elite. 

If you really wanted to do it , basically, after buying resale, you buy more direct from Starwood and as part of the deal, ask them to "retro" your resale into SVN


----------



## SDKath

n2fc said:


> PS: Latest Starwood site shows they raised the req. for 5* Elite to 649,000 SO! What is to stop them from perpetually raising the requirements?



Just to clarify, they can't raise the SO requirements on someone who is already 5*.  So if you have 649,000 SOs and are now 5* platinum, you will be that as long as you maintain that many SOs, even if they decide to raise the requirement to 700k SOs in a year or two...

If you have Courts, hang in there and wait to see if your purchase date will allow you membership into SVN.  I think though that Starwood was using a very old purchase date (must own by 1/2008 if I recall correctly) when they brought Springs and Falls into the system.  That means if you didn't own those weeks before that time, you would not be allowed into SVN.  Someone posted an internal memo to Redweek last year confirming that this date would be the cutoff for all the SVR units eventually.

How long have you been the owners of those Courts weeks?

Katherine


----------



## Ken555

SDKath said:


> I think though that Starwood was using a very old purchase date (must own by 1/2008 if I recall correctly) when they brought Springs and Falls into the system.



Yes, it was purchased by 1/1/08 and registered as an owner with Starwood by 3/1/08 (or 3/31, I forget).


----------



## vistana101

Just want to clarify, a U.S. mainland developer must be at least 20,000 dollars in order to get a resale retroed.


----------



## jarta

vistana101,   ...   "Just want to clarify, a U.S. mainland developer must be at least 20,000 dollars in order to get a resale retroed."

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you were saying in your post.  However, the $20K is for a new purchase from Starwood at a resort that is not in the Caribbean or Hawaii.  Or, you can state it as mainland US and Mexico.

The size and season and location of the unit retroed does not matter.

You can retro a 3-br lockoff in Platinum season at Harborside which you purchased on eBay by buying a EY or OY 2-br lockoff in Platinum season for $21,450 at Lagunamar.  Or, if you purchase something at St. John or Hawaii, you can retro the same Harborside unit - but you have to spend $40,000+ for your St.John or Hawaii purchase.

In September of 2008,  I retroed a Platinum 3-br at Harborside that I bought resale (and another Platinum 2-br resale at WKV) by buying 1 EY and 1 OY 2-br units at Lagunamar because I wanted to add the 196,900 Harborside StarOptions (and the 148,100 StarOptions at WKV) to my elite status to get to 5 Star Elite.  And, I wanted the ability to reserve the Harborside 3-br lockoff at 12 months, stay at the 1-br part of the lockoff (a larger pie-shaped deluxe unit at the building corner that has a real balcony) in Platinum Season, cancel the reservation for the 2-br portion and use those StarOptions returned to me for a reservation elsewhere (or convert them into StarPoints).

It made sense for me but might not for others.  Generally, unless you are going for 5 Star Elite, retroing a mandatory resort makes little sense since you already can use the StarOptions for internal trades.  

Anyway, going for 5 Star Elite (even with retroing units bought on eBay), is a horribly expensive endeavor/commitment.  To get there you have to have the money to purchase the necessary units, the money to pay the 5-6 MF on 2-br units and the ability to use the StarOptions to take vacations 5-6 weeks a year (maybe 10-12 if you go in lesser seasons).

BTW, because of my Elite status, I am staying at Lagunamar in building 5 (dead center) on the top floor and looking straight out at the pools and the ocean for the next 2 weeks.  It's exactly the view I requested.

Think hard and long about the benefits and detriments before buying something from Starwood directly just to do a retro.  It does not make sense in very many cases.   ...   eom


----------



## vistana101

jarta said:


> vistana101,   ...   "Just want to clarify, a U.S. mainland developer must be at least 20,000 dollars in order to get a resale retroed."
> 
> I'm not sure I exactly understand what you were saying in your post.  However, the $20K is for a new purchase from Starwood at a resort that is not in the Caribbean or Hawaii.  Or, you can state it as mainland US and Mexico.
> 
> The size and season and location of the unit retroed does not matter.
> 
> You can retro a 3-br lockoff in Platinum season at Harborside which you purchased on eBay by buying a EY or OY 2-br lockoff in Platinum season for $21,450 at Lagunamar.  Or, if you purchase something at St. John or Hawaii, you can retro the same Harborside unit - but you have to spend $40,000+ for your St.John or Hawaii purchase.
> 
> In September of 2008,  I retroed a Platinum 3-br at Harborside that I bought resale (and another Platinum 2-br resale at WKV) by buying 1 EY and 1 OY 2-br units at Lagunamar because I wanted to add the 196,900 Harborside StarOptions (and the 148,100 StarOptions at WKV) to my elite status to get to 5 Star Elite.  And, I wanted the ability to reserve the Harborside 3-br lockoff at 12 months, stay at the 1-br part of the lockoff (a larger pie-shaped deluxe unit at the building corner that has a real balcony) in Platinum Season, cancel the reservation for the 2-br portion and use those StarOptions returned to me for a reservation elsewhere (or convert them into StarPoints).
> 
> It made sense for me but might not for others.  Generally, unless you are going for 5 Star Elite, retroing a mandatory resort makes little sense since you already can use the StarOptions for internal trades.
> 
> Anyway, going for 5 Star Elite (even with retroing units bought on eBay), is a horribly expensive endeavor/commitment.  To get there you have to have the money to purchase the necessary units, the money to pay the 5-6 MF on 2-br units and the ability to use the StarOptions to take vacations 5-6 weeks a year (maybe 10-12 if you go in lesser seasons).
> 
> BTW, because of my Elite status, I am staying at Lagunamar in building 5 (dead center) on the top floor and looking straight out at the pools and the ocean for the next 2 weeks.  It's exactly the view I requested.
> 
> Think hard and long about the benefits and detriments before buying something from Starwood directly just to do a retro.  It does not make sense in very many cases.   ...   eom


I think I am going to simply stick with purchasing a mandatory resort. Thank you for your advice.


----------



## J4all

*Retro from an agreement in '06*

What a great site, looking forward to getting the most of our ts's by snooping around.  My question/plea for help, has to do with the original thread by Duke.  We had purchased a wmh 2/2 eoy in '04/'05.  In '06 went to a presentation for the LM and the deciding factor in purchasing a studio eoy was that they(William/Bill, we think) told us they would retro our wmh.  He did mention it was something that they normally "don't do".  We bought it, they sent us the paper work to sign(old owners purchase papers. etc..) we sent them back and didn't think too much of it. Recently we've discovered nothing was ever done and a person named Chase from wmh's, refuses to do anything about it. He "believes" us, but that's not how "they" do things now.  It's very frustrating knowing what we were told, what we signed and then being turned out on our ears.  What should our next step be?  We've just filed a complaint with the bbb in our area and are very tempted to picket out front of the wmh.  Any help from the sages on this forum?


----------



## Captron

J4

You should have gotten a retro sheet in your paper work. Check your file IF you can find it. (I don't know if I could in a weeked) If you did, I would tell them to honor their obligation or you could consider the whole contract null and void based on a breach on their part.

If you did not get in writing.."X Y Z will be added to SVN with XXXX Star Options..." then I am afraid you got bit by the "if it isn't in the contract in writing" bug and may have to live and learn from this one. I am sorry if this is the case.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I worried about the same issue when I did my retro during our stay at WKV (I wrote a long thread about my experience that is imbedded in one of the posts on the requal thread).  I made sure I got something in writing in case 'Corporate' did not allow the retro - I was breaking a few so-called rules at the time.  I also followed-up all the way through the process, and must give kudos to the SVO sales at WKV for knowing what they were doing.

I mention the document that I had about the retro in my thread - I cannot recall what the document was called - but get it in writing (always) - for all contracts.

Of course - while I got a 'deal' from SVO at the time - my EOY WPORV is worth 1/3 of what I paid just 2-3 years ago. 
Luckily I got ~225K SPs from the WPORV purchase - so I can now use 'fuzzy math' to feel better about the purchase (YES!  that 5 nite stay at the Westin Paris was really worth $1100 per nite... lol)


----------



## J4all

Thanks for the replies, unfortunately, I did not copy the paperwork that I signed and sent back to them.  I may have to work my way up the ladder and see how many feathers I can ruffle... The only paperwork I have from the presentation is a paper that shows how many points we would get for our 1 week at the wmh and how many we would get the other year with the LM week.


----------



## DanCali

J4all said:


> Thanks for the replies, unfortunately, I did not copy the paperwork that I signed and sent back to them.  I may have to work my way up the ladder and see how many feathers I can ruffle... The only paperwork I have from the presentation is a paper that shows how many points we would get for our 1 week at the wmh and how many we would get the other year with the LM week.



Before you ruffle any feathers, I'd call owner services and ask for someone in the document administration department. Ask to speak to someone on the phone directly rather than leave a voice mal and then tell them you think you misplaced the copies you had, and ask them to send you a copy of everything you signed.


----------



## Fredm

*In the words of Forrest Gump*

Stupid is as stupid does.

A  Starwood owner wishes to attain Five Star. 
They must retro a 148,100 resale to get there.

Starwood wants to sell them an annual at Princeville. The owner wishes to buy it.

The owner wants to purchase 2  resale eoy's (an even and an odd) at WKORVN to get the needed 148,100.

Starwood won't let them retro the 2 eoy's. They will only qualify one of them, leaving the owner short.

Of course, the owner could buy an annual instead. But, they want 2 eoy's for their own reasons.  Starwood says "too bad".

I'm amazed.


----------



## jerseygirl

Fredm said:


> I'm amazed.



I'm not!  Nothing they do amazes me anymore.
:hysterical:


----------



## DavidnRobin

Sorry to ruin it for all those following me...


----------



## DanCali

Fredm said:


> Stupid is as stupid does.
> 
> A  Starwood owner wishes to attain Five Star.
> They must retro a 148,100 resale to get there.
> 
> Starwood wants to sell them an annual at Princeville. The owner wishes to buy it.
> 
> The owner wants to purchase 2  resale eoy's (an even and an odd) at WKORVN to get the needed 148,100.
> 
> Starwood won't let them retro the 2 eoy's. They will only qualify one of them, leaving the owner short.
> 
> Of course, the owner could buy an annual instead. But, they want 2 eoy's for their own reasons.  Starwood says "too bad".
> 
> I'm amazed.



Unless you retro in two HRA 3BR Plat (2*196K + 2*148K), you have to do 3 developer purchases to get there (4*148K < 649K and 3*148K + 196K < 649K). Hence, you don't have to retro 148K on each occasion, especially if you also buy 148K from the developer...

In fact, you can get there with (2*148K) + (2*95.7K) + (2*81K).

Retroing using Hawaii or Bahamas developer purchases is not among the cheapest ways to get there anyway.

I actually respect that Starwood has the same rules for everyone. Silly or not, it's one retro for 1 retail purchase. It's our job to find the optimal path for us within those contraints. I'd be pretty upset if Starwood told me "no" but made an exception for the next guy...


----------



## Fredm

DanCali said:


> Unless you retro in two HRA 3BR Plat (2*196K + 2*148K), you have to do 3 developer purchases to get there (4*148K < 649K and 3*148K + 196K < 649K). Hence, you don't have to retro 148K on each occasion, especially if you also buy 148K from the developer...
> 
> In fact, you can get there with (2*148K) + (2*95.7K) + (2*81K).
> 
> Retroing using Hawaii or Bahamas developer purchases is not among the cheapest ways to get there anyway.
> 
> I actually respect that Starwood has the same rules for everyone. Silly or not, it's one retro for 1 retail purchase. It's our job to find the optimal path for us within those contraints. I'd be pretty upset if Starwood told me "no" but made an exception for the next guy...



Dan,

The owner is not looking for an "optimal" path. They want to own Maui. As mentioned, they could buy an annual instead (for less money). Problem solved. They simply want to buy 2 eoy's to represent the annual use.

I get the one retro for 1*"equivalent"* purchase part. If it were the other way around Starwood would permit it. They would sell 2 eoy's to retro an annual. So, it really is semantics.

The owner can now decide to buy an annual for retro (instead of 2 eoy's), or tell Starwood to shove it.
If the later, Starwood loses the sale. As I said, Stupid is as stupid does.


----------



## oneohana

Fredm said:


> Dan,
> 
> The owner is not looking for an "optimal" path. They want to own Maui. As mentioned, they could buy an annual instead (for less money). Problem solved. They simply want to buy 2 eoy's to represent the annual use.
> 
> I get the one retro for 1*"equivalent"* purchase part. If it were the other way around Starwood would permit it. They would sell 2 eoy's to retro an annual. So, it really is semantics.
> 
> The owner can now decide to buy an annual for retro (instead of 2 eoy's), or tell Starwood to shove it.
> If the later, Starwood loses the sale. As I said, Stupid is as stupid does.



So they want to be special and retro "2 weeks" with 1 developer?
They should have done this a few years ago, and they might of had a chance.

Should Starwood make an exception here? Would you tell us if they did?

Retroing has always been a crap shoot with *wood. I couldn't get some deals others did. I was even dealing through the corporate office. But, I know I got some deals others didn't.


----------



## Fredm

oneohana said:


> So they want to be special and retro "2 weeks" with 1 developer?



No. They want to retro 2 half weeks for one full week.


----------



## DanCali

Fredm said:


> I get the one retro for 1*"equivalent"* purchase part. If it were the other way around Starwood would permit it. They would sell 2 eoy's to retro an annual. So, it really is semantics.



It doesn't have to be an equivalent unit... In fact you can retro a 3BR Annual HRA for 1 EOY retail purchase as long as you spend 20K (mainland or mexico). E.G WLR EOY Plat is listed at $27,900 so that could retro 196K Annual SOs (I think this is what jarta did)

By the way- would they really let you retro a week if you were to buy 2 EOY mainland units for say $12K each? Is that verified or just speculation? If that's right, I can see the argument because as I understand it that shouldn't qualify for a retro. 



Fredm said:


> No. They want to retro 2 half weeks for one full week.



"Half week" is a semantic that suits this particular owner.

You can equally argue that thay should also allow retroing 1 EY 81K SOs and 1 EY 67K SOs as part of 1 retail purchase. That would be 2 EY 1BRs instead of 1 EY 2BR Lockoff... it also "makes sense" if someone were to have that particular situation. 

I guess the way I see it is that the rules are what they are... retroing is not an owner entitlement - it's meant to promote sales. At least they give the option to retro, which Marriott doesn't.


----------



## Ken555

DanCali said:


> "Half week" is a semantic that suits this particular owner.
> 
> You can equally argue that thay should also allow retroing 1 EY 81K SOs and 1 EY 67K SOs as part of 1 retail purchase. That would be 2 EY 1BRs instead of 1 EY 2BR Lockoff... it also "makes sense" if someone were to have that particular situation.



Well said. Yet another verification that Starwood's purchasing policies aren't balanced consistently. I absolutely agree that one 2-bed purchase should equal a similar value in retro... could be 2, 1-bed units EY, or even 4 1-bed units EOY. And it doesn't hurt SVN to offer this... if an existing owner has weeks they want to retro there's no practical difference (other than perhaps a few $$ per year on SVN dues, but after 3 it's no add'l cost anyway). I agree with Fred, there's no reason other than a perceived sales value (which, in TUGs consensus opinion, appears to be zero) in encouraging existing buyers to purchase more than they need, or want. 

It's just crazy in these times for any sales outfit to let a potential buyer walk for any reason.


----------



## jerseygirl

Ken555 said:


> It's just crazy in these times for any sales outfit to let a potential buyer walk for any reason.



Yes, but Starwood has proven time and time again that they're a spiteful organization.  For some sadistic purpose (not shared by their more successful competitors -- Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton), they target their policies to "stick it to" the small minority of resale buyers.  But, it's a very short-sighted practice -- little or no marketability of voluntary weeks leads to increased delinquencies .... which leads to increased maintenance fees ....  which leads to more delinquencies ..... AND DECREASED DEVELOPER SALES (it's hard to make those little arrows work when the maintenance fee exceed comparable rental rates).

Three words:  Deck chairs, Titanic.


----------



## DeniseM

In this market you would think they would really ramp up their requal program and make it easy and accessible.  Why else would anyone buy from the developer?????


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## jerseygirl

Ah .... but they're just not that smart Denise!


----------



## Fredm

jerseygirl said:


> Ah .... but they're just not that smart Denise!



Exactly what I have been saying. THAT was my entire point.

Starwood can make whatever rules it wants. It's their system.

The ONLY motivation for buying the annual Princeville from Starwood is the retro of WKORVN.  The owner has thus far purchased neither (although they already own  developer purchased KORN).

All this gobbledygook about permitting the retro of an annual KORN, but not permitting the retro of 2 eoy's (worth exactly the same thing) is stupid.  

And, yes, Dan. You can bet the ranch that Starwood would allow the purchase of 2 eoy's in the same contract to retro an annual. All they have to do is spend 40k.

So, the owner is free to make their choices.  One of which is to tell Starwood to keep the annual Princeville they were willing to buy for way too much money.


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## Bill4728

New info on price to retro



> Posted by Vistana101
> A couple things to know:
> Starwood just lowered the price to 15k(mainland) to retro a resale.
> They are trying to take away SP as incentives to buy





> posted by Fredm
> Starwood lowered the Hawaii retro qualifying price to $27,500, from $40,000, as well.


----------



## trader14

so i was going over the last few pages and for a while starwood wasn't letting you combine staroptions however i think that changed a little while ago.  does starwood allow you to combine staroptions to gain elite still?


----------



## DeniseM

trader14 said:


> so i was going over the last few pages and for a while starwood wasn't letting you combine staroptions however i think that changed a little while ago.  does starwood allow you to combine staroptions to gain elite still?



I think you are talking about 2 different issues.

"Combining Staroptions" usually refers to using both resale and developer  Staroptions on the same Starwood reservation - yes, it's allowed.

However, to count towards Elite status, all weeks must either be purchased from the developer, or requalified by buying a matching week from the developer, at full price.  You cannot use a resale towards Elite Status, unless you requalify it.


----------



## James1975NY

trader14 said:


> so i was going over the last few pages and for a while starwood wasn't letting you combine staroptions however i think that changed a little while ago.  does starwood allow you to combine staroptions to gain elite still?



They will allow you to combine the StarOptions but any StarOptions that have transferred through resale will NOT contribute towards your Elite status unless you were to retro-activate them with direct purchase(s) through SVO.


----------



## Ken555

James1975NY said:


> They will allow you to combine the StarOptions but any StarOptions that have transferred through resale will NOT contribute towards your Elite status unless you were to retro-activate them with direct purchase(s) through SVO.



And as with all things Starwood, this can change at any time without notice.


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## James1975NY

Ken555 said:


> And as with all things Starwood, this can change at any time without notice.



Very true but I will add that the initial reason why they did not allow combination of StarOptions was because their PMS (property management system) did not have the logic to prevent someone from reaching Elite status with mandatory resale purchases.

Now that they have the logic (for some time now), they are not so concerned with it. At the end of the day, if they did not allow them to be combined, the Vacation Counselors in owner services would spend a day and a half working with owners and multiple StarOptions "buckets". It is in their best interest to allow the combination of Options to reduce the impact of longer talk times.


----------



## James1975NY

James1975NY said:


> Very true but I will add that the initial reason why they did not allow combination of StarOptions was because their PMS (property management system) did not have the logic to prevent someone from reaching Elite status with mandatory resale purchases.
> 
> Now that they have the logic (for some time now), they are not so concerned with it. At the end of the day, if they did not allow them to be combined, the Vacation Counselors in owner services would spend a day and a half working with owners and multiple StarOptions "buckets". It is in their best interest to allow the combination of Options to reduce the impact of longer talk times.



High talk time bad!


----------



## Ken555

James1975NY said:


> Very true but I will add that the initial reason why they did not allow combination of StarOptions was because their PMS (property management system) did not have the logic to prevent someone from reaching Elite status with mandatory resale purchases.
> 
> Now that they have the logic (for some time now), they are not so concerned with it. At the end of the day, if they did not allow them to be combined, the Vacation Counselors in owner services would spend a day and a half working with owners and multiple StarOptions "buckets". It is in their best interest to allow the combination of Options to reduce the impact of longer talk times.



It would be great if SVN actually announced this rationale. I believe you, since it makes sense, but you cannot seriously suggest anyone make a purchase decision based on this assumption unless the company itself makes an announcement and commits to this as a permanent policy. And even then, we wouldn't believe them, since they always retain the right to make unilateral changes, etc etc.


----------



## YYJMSP

Bill4728 said:


> New info on price to retro



The sales person at WMH today said $20K for a mainland purchase as being the current requirement.

Not sure I trust him, given that he didn't know what I was talking about until I explained what "retroing" was, and then he went away for a good 5mins before coming back with that info...


----------



## caterina25

I just purchased Haborside II resale 2 bedroom L/O gold season.What would be the least costly resort I could purchase to be able to retro my timeshare.


----------



## TomH

paulaf52 said:


> I just purchased Haborside II resale 2 bedroom L/O gold season.What would be the least costly resort I could purchase to be able to retro my timeshare.



As of today, my contact at telephone sales confirmed 20K purchase to qualify for retro.  The 15K figure promotion has expired.

Tom


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## vistana101

paulaf52 said:


> I just purchased Haborside II resale 2 bedroom L/O gold season.What would be the least costly resort I could purchase to be able to retro my timeshare.


15k is definitely the mainland purchase requirement-so maybe SPB or SVR?

EDIT: just saw the 20k post by Tom-A Lagunamar Studio might be good


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## DavidnRobin

paulaf52 said:


> I just purchased Haborside II resale 2 bedroom L/O gold season.What would be the least costly resort I could purchase to be able to retro my timeshare.



Please make sure (whatever the retro cost) to ask yourself about what the true value of retroing a resort like HRA - HRA already has access to SVN (since it is Mandatory).  There is much more benefit to retro a Voluntary resort.

So the gain is only two-fold for retroing a M resort... 1) the ability to convert your SOs to SPs - is this really something you would do with HRA?, and 2) gaining SVO Elite status - unless you plan to get to 5* Elite (and Plat for Life - if available) eventually and can maximize the benefits -  it is questionable whether the cost is worth the Elite benefit (at any level).

JMO - YMMV
btw - I did retro a M resort.  In hindsight - a poor decision.


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## DeniseM

paulaf52 said:


> I just purchased Haborside II resale 2 bedroom L/O gold season.What would be the least costly resort I could purchase to be able to retro my timeshare.



Hi Paula - what are you goals in wanting to retro this timeshare?

If it's so you can convert your week to Starpoints, that's a really bad value.  You can actually BUY Starpoints from Starwood for less than converting your week to Starpoints.  Why?  Because the maintenance fee is so high, that it costs you more to convert your week to points, that it would to simply buy them.

Unless you intend to go all the way to 5 Star Elite (a proposal that will cost you over $100K up front and about $10K a year in maintenance fees) there is no reason to requalify.


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## caterina25

I love to travel to Europe but lately the prices are out of reach,I was thinking of the possibility of trading for the hotel points to use for hotels in Europe.After reading some of the post the points may not be a good trade.Thanks for your help.


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM brings up an excellent point in the cost to buy SPs openly compared to the amount of SPs attained for the MFs.  I would not think that HRA fits this scenerio - more like a place to buy to go (like WSJ).

Get an AMEX SPG card - we have racked up many SPs using our card (almost exclusively) - we have 250K SPs, and we just used 225K SPs during our Europe vacation (using the 5th nite free) for London, Amsterdam, and Paris


----------



## DeniseM

paulaf52 said:


> I love to travel to Europe but lately the prices are out of reach,I was thinking of the possibility of trading for the hotel points to use for hotels in Europe.After reading some of the post the points may not be a good trade.Thanks for your help.



Here is another negative aspect of converting to  Starpoints:

Every year your maintenance fee will go up.  (My maintenance fee at the Maui resort has gone up $1,100 since 2004.)

Every year Starwood raises the number of Starpoints they charge for hotel stays.

*But Starwood has NEVER increased the number of Starpoints they give timeshare owners who convert their weeks to Starpoints.  *

In 2004 when I paid $1,200 in maintenance fees, it was worth 80K Starpoints if I converted to points.  This year, with my maintenance fee now over $2,300 - I would still only get 80K Starpoints.  So my maintenance fee has doubled - but the Starpoint exchange rate hasn't changed.

Personally, I would never convert Hawaii, St. John, or Harborside, or any of the other new resorts with high MF's to Starpoints.  It's just not a good value, when you can buy the points for less!


----------



## jerseygirl

It really is a double whammy when you think about it.  Your maintenance fees go up AND most hotel systems increase the points required for stays periodically.  So, you're getting the shaft on both sides.

Hilton raised the points for conversion after their last devaluation.  I think they're the only major to have ever done that.  I've never really figured out whether the increase was "fair" or "token," but I appreciated the goodwill it showed.

I try to plan my Hilton vacations a full year in advance so that I can convert the excess points prior to year-end (e.g., if you want to convert 2011 points, you need to let Hilton know by 12-31-2010).  This year I had enough "extra" points to get a free airline ticket .... but, again, I've never really analyzed the full monetary value.  I just knew I didn't need the extra unused points (espcially since Hilton's Open Season rates are a wonderful thing), so I thought why not just convert my extra HGVC points to HH points, then to airline miles -- worked for me!


----------



## SDKath

I do want to add that the SP requirement for many of the nicest hotels has actually been LOWERED this past year (probably because of the sluggish economy).  Not saying that it will stay that way, but for the last 2 years my family and I have been to some incredibly hotels and have stayed with much fewer SPs than in the past.

My mom is going to Venice and staying at the Westin Europa for 12,000 SPs a night! The cost to get a room there is 900 EUROS!

Last year it was the same in Greece.  Just saying....  

Katherine


----------



## jerseygirl

Thanks Kath -- I didn't realize that.  I really don't pay too much attn to SP requirements as I primarily use "cash and points" (I find that to be the best deal for me, primarily because I use another hotel's loyalty card and really don't rack up a ton of SPs).  Did you mom stay at the Hotel Grande Bretagne in Greece?  Just got back from there last month and spent a weekend in Athens (and a week in Rhodes -- absolutely wonderful!).  The Hotel Grande Bretagne was FABULOUS.  As lowly gold members, we were thrilled to be upgraded to a junior suite which had a HUGE balcony from which we could catch glimpses of the protestors (a bunch of Greek men standing in the street, smoking, and plotting the following week's strikes -- no violence!)  

We had both breakfast and dinner at their rooftop restaurant so we could enjoy both the daytime and evening views of the Acropolis/Parthenon.  I felt like I was sitting in a postcard!  That hotel deserves every bit of its rating!  I think we paid 8000 SPs and $150 -- a great deal (less than $400/night if one didn't have the points and took advantage of the current 20% SP cash sale).


----------



## DavidnRobin

SPG did not change there SP requirements from 2009-2010
SPG had many downward SP requirments from 2008-2009
{both were discussed on TUG - but see FlyerTalk for details}

of course - over the long haul - up, up, and away

the cost per room - as we know - is very dynamic - and the cause of a lot of fuzzy math (as has been discussed) - for example: we stayed 5 nites at the Westin Paris for about 84K SPs - the 'back of the door price' of the room per nite was 750 euros (~$1100 per nites) - did we really save $5500 minus the cost of 84K SPs (~$1700) = $3800 for those 5 nites?  Only if I would ever actually spend $1100/nite (ah...nope).

However - SPs are a great way to stay at nice European hotels for cheap... saved us $1000s not even using fuzzy math (that would have saved over $10K - which feels good - but certainly overexagerated - IMO YMMV)


----------



## mwinikoff

Denise,

How/Where are you buying Starpoints at a "good price"?

Thanks,

M



DeniseM said:


> Here is another negative aspect of converting to  Starpoints:
> 
> Personally, I would never convert Hawaii, St. John, or Harborside, or any of the other new resorts with high MF's to Starpoints.  It's just not a good value, when you can buy the points for less!


----------



## LisaRex

mwinikoff said:


> Denise,
> 
> How/Where are you buying Starpoints at a "good price"?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> M



You can buy them directly off the SPG website.  There is a maximum you can buy is 20k at $.035 per point.  They also occasionally offer discounts.  They ran a year-end promo in '09.  If you're married, I believe each spouse can buy 20k and then you can combine them for an award.


----------



## DeniseM

mwinikoff said:


> Denise,
> 
> How/Where are you buying Starpoints at a "good price"?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> M



What Lisa said - but I would never "buy" Starpoints - that was just one of the reasons that converting is a poor value most of the time.  We are generating "free" Starpoints with our Starwood AMEX.


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> What Lisa said - but I would never "buy" Starpoints - that was just one of the reasons that converting is a poor value most of the time.  We are generating "free" Starpoints with our Starwood AMEX.



We also use our SPG AMEX card to gather SPs, but they are not free.  There is a annual fee (easy to overcome) - but more importantly you need to compare the value of having a SPG AMEX card compared to having other types of 'cash-back' or other award cards.


----------



## Pindento

*?? *Wood Sales over the phone - no REQUAL, no UPGRADE for resale units ??*

I just called SVO direct sales for information, and spoke with someone named Don - I was looking to get info about inventory on where active sales were occuring.  I also asked a few questions while I was at it about re-quals/upgrades on resales.  The emphatic responses was that there was no longer any options available to take a resale of any kind and get it qualified into the Starwood Vacation network - no way, no how.  Not through re-qualification, nor through upgrade.

Was I just talking to the wrong guy, a direct sales guy attempting to guard turf, or is this a new reality?  He indicated that all these options were eliminated about a year and a half ago - he said that if you bought something on resale, neither upgrade nor requal with another unit was an option.  Not "let me see", or "let me talk with my manager", just "this no longer exists".

For my motivations as a potential new buyer, this would stop me completely in my tracks from buying a unit ... resale or otherwise, seems like this would reduce current owners resale market options to unload if needed.

Anyone have definitive sources out there that could confirm or correct this message I got over the phone?

Vincent


----------



## Fredm

Pindento said:


> I just called SVO direct sales for information, and spoke with someone named Don - I was looking to get info about inventory on where active sales were occuring.  I also asked a few questions while I was at it about re-quals/upgrades on resales.  The emphatic responses was that there was no longer any options available to take a resale of any kind and get it qualified into the Starwood Vacation network - no way, no how.  Not through re-qualification, nor through upgrade.
> 
> Was I just talking to the wrong guy, a direct sales guy attempting to guard turf, or is this a new reality? * He indicated that all these options were eliminated about a year and a half ago -* he said that if you bought something on resale, neither upgrade nor requal with another unit was an option.  Not "let me see", or "let me talk with my manager", just "this no longer exists".
> 
> For my motivations as a potential new buyer, this would stop me completely in my tracks from buying a unit ... resale or otherwise, seems like this would reduce current owners resale market options to unload if needed.
> 
> Anyone have definitive sources out there that could confirm or correct this message I got over the phone?
> 
> Vincent



The comment I emphasized is not true. I have been involved in several Requals in the past 6 months. However, none in the past month. So, cannot say for certain that it is not a new policy.


----------



## YYJMSP

Pindento said:


> Anyone have definitive sources out there that could confirm or correct this message I got over the phone?



Our last requalification was done about 10 months ago -- just fired off a note to our corporate sales rep and post once I have a response...


----------



## Pindento

Thanks Fredm and YYJMSP!

I have to admit that I didn't read every page of this thread until today, just scanned it again to find the PhilyPhan post in Aug of '09 - very suspicious stuff.  I've been really interested in buying a couple resales to consider options for the upgrade and requal approach along with a developer purchase, and this mornings conversation took the wind out of the sails.

Hasn't taken the option completely out of consideration without a developer purchase ... but I sure do agree with responses to PhilyPhan post - no harm in buyers working within whatever "the rules" are to find the optimal value.  Gives existing owners additional options to sell, and gives buyers additional motivation to enter the market.  There's little chance I'd consider a developer purchase without this option.  If they have buyers beating down the door for a direct purchase without a resale re-qual/upgrade option, more power to 'em ... but I wouldn't be able to understand turning down a segment of the market.

Regards and thanks again,
Vincent


----------



## Fredm

Pindento said:


> Thanks Fredm and YYJMSP!
> 
> I have to admit that I didn't read every page of this thread until today, just scanned it again to find the PhilyPhan post in Aug of '09 - very suspicious stuff.  I've been really interested in buying a couple resales to consider options for the upgrade and requal approach along with a developer purchase, and this mornings conversation took the wind out of the sails.
> 
> Hasn't taken the option completely out of consideration without a developer purchase ... but I sure do agree with responses to PhilyPhan post - no harm in buyers working within whatever "the rules" are to find the optimal value.  Gives existing owners additional options to sell, and gives buyers additional motivation to enter the market.  There's little chance I'd consider a developer purchase without this option.  If they have buyers beating down the door for a direct purchase without a resale re-qual/upgrade option, more power to 'em ... but I wouldn't be able to understand turning down a segment of the market.
> 
> Regards and thanks again,
> Vincent



My experience has been that Starwood sales reps will work with you to retro-qualify a secondary market purchase, if that is the only way they will make a direct sale.

I agree that the retro-qualification program is a source of secondary market buyers, and discontinuing it will have an adverse impact on demand.


----------



## SCMom

*We were offered the possibility of retro on Saturday*

We just spent a week at Westin Mission Hills (purchased a cheap Getaway.). It was our first trip to a Westin property since we bought our SDO last summer.  We did the Owner's Update and, of course, they were blown away by how much I know about the system (thanks to TUG!). Both the saleswoman and her manager were dying to sell us a Gold Plus WDW week worth 81,000 SOs and try to retro my SDO.  Price would have been about 21K.  They were not sure if my SDO could be retroed and I didn't have them do all the research because we weren't really going to buy.  They were certainly not talking about no more retro.  Incentives were bonus 148,000 SOs plus 80,000 SPs.  Problem is that WDW MFs are $1,500 a year.  When the closer guy offered me a 3 night return plus 50,000 SPs for 1,400, it wasn't too hard to say no as I had just stayed for a week on a 375 Getaway.


----------



## jerseygirl

I think the retro process still exists as evidenced By SCMom's recent experience  but I think the upgrade opportunities may be gone.


----------



## YYJMSP

SCMom said:


> We just spent a week at Westin Mission Hills (purchased a cheap Getaway.). It was our first trip to a Westin property since we bought our SDO last summer.  We did the Owner's Update and, of course, they were blown away by how much I know about the system (thanks to TUG!). Both the saleswoman and her manager were dying to sell us a Gold Plus WDW week worth 81,000 SOs and try to retro my SDO.  Price would have been about 21K.  They were not sure if my SDO could be retroed and I didn't have them do all the research because we weren't really going to buy.  They were certainly not talking about no more retro.  Incentives were bonus 148,000 SOs plus 80,000 SPs.  Problem is that WDW MFs are $1,500 a year.  When the closer guy offered me a 3 night return plus 50,000 SPs for 1,400, it wasn't too hard to say no as I had just stayed for a week on a 375 Getaway.



We had a similar experience back in March this year, but they were trying to get us to buy Lagunamar as Desert Willow was "sold out" for now...

I think the only difference in what they offered was price was a tiny bit higher and the return incentive ("Explorer package") was for 5 days instead of 3 days.


We did an Owner's Update in Maui in July, and the sales guy was a bit poo-poo on the whole requalification thing, but I think it was just him not getting a sale of an "upgrade" to our WKORV property -- they wanted us to buy a OF unit at today's developer prices if we traded in our IV Deluxe at 2005 prices.  Um, no thanks...


----------



## oneohana

jerseygirl said:


> I think the retro process still exists as evidenced By SCMom's recent experience  but I think the upgrade opportunities may be gone.



Upgrades with a retro as of 2 weeks ago are still there.


----------



## jerseygirl

oneohana said:


> Upgrades with a retro as of 2 weeks ago are still there.



Upgrade of a resale?  If yes, very nice!  Pls detail (whatever you're comfortable with).


----------



## YYJMSP

Cut-and-paste from our sales rep:

_We are still selling all of the resorts (since most locations do have off season weeks available); but if you are speaking of the top platinum plus season, the resorts that we mainly have some sort of inventory for right now are The Westin Lagunamar and The Westin St. John Resorts.  The Westin Desert Willow Resort, The Westin Riverfront Mountain Resort and The Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort were all out of available inventory for the Platinum Plus Season, but we just recently released more for the Cancun Resort and the Colorado Resort.  However, there are some contingencies on the way they are selling the Platinum Plus Season at the Colorado Property.  They are only selling Ski Season with the purchase of a 2nd week (2 week package).  As for The Westin Desert Willow Resort, they do not have any Platinum Plus Season inventory currently available; they will have more once they wrap up some more building and register the villas to be sold, but for now they only have the other seasons available.   

In regards to the retro guidelines (re-qualification of resale inventory), below you will find the current retro guidelines as they currently exist.

To retro a resale purchase of one of our existing properties into the Starwood Vacation Network for FULL membership privileges, you must purchase an interest directly from Starwood (Developer) as follows:

**If the new purchase (Developer Purchase) is for inventory within the continental U.S. or Mexico, the purchase price must meet a minimum of $20,000.  

**If the new purchase (Developer Purchase) is for inventory in Hawaii or The Caribbean (Bahamas or St. John), the purchase price must meet a minimum of $40,000.

At the present time, there are no other options available with regards to resale inventory.  _


----------



## Pindento

Thanks YYJMSP !

Good info ... I'll try not to be a pest , but as for the final comment "At the present time, there are no other options available with regards to resale inventory." .... do you get the impression he's suggesting an upgrade of a resale is not an option?


----------



## YYJMSP

Pindento said:


> Thanks YYJMSP !
> 
> Good info ... I'll try not to be a pest , but as for the final comment "At the present time, there are no other options available with regards to resale inventory." .... do you get the impression he's suggesting an upgrade of a resale is not an option?



As far as I know, upgrades to resales weren't an option -- when we were in Hawaii this summer, they offered to let us use the original purchase price (from 5+ years ago) of our units against a new purchase, but they had put down $0 as the original price on the resale unit in our account.


----------



## pathways25

Pindento said:


> Thanks YYJMSP !
> 
> Good info ... I'll try not to be a pest , but as for the final comment "At the present time, there are no other options available with regards to resale inventory." .... do you get the impression he's suggesting an upgrade of a resale is not an option?



I believe the option to retro on upgrade was taken away about 18 months ago.  You can look over this lengthy thread that talks about it:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96596


----------



## YYJMSP

jerseygirl said:


> Upgrade of a resale?  If yes, very nice!  Pls detail (whatever you're comfortable with).



I'm going to speculate that this is the same as what we were offered in July.

You can upgrade your existing unit (any property it sounded like) to a more expensive developer unit at the same resort, and they would credit your original purchase price against the cost of the new unit.  The catch seemed to be that they put down an original purchase price of $0 on our previously requalified unit.

If the difference was greater than the requalification threshold ($20K mainland, $40K elsewhere), you could retro an existing resale.


----------



## Pindento

pathways25 said:


> I believe the option to retro on upgrade was taken away about 18 months ago.  You can look over this lengthy thread that talks about it:
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96596




Thanks, I read the thread.  One thing I struggled with ... if the requirement is $20K "new" money on the upgrade, and they're filling in $0 on the upgrade ... to Katherine's point, they're not upgrading anything, they're just selling a new developer purchase without anything in return for the unit being "upgraded" from.  Well, I guess the only value you're getting is relief from the MF obligation - so, in essence ... this formula suggests that SVO values the existing week you have as a burden rather than an asset ...


----------



## jerseygirl

YYJMSP said:


> I'm going to speculate that this is the same as what we were offered in July.
> 
> You can upgrade your existing unit (any property it sounded like) to a more expensive developer unit at the same resort, and they would credit your original purchase price against the cost of the new unit.  The catch seemed to be that they put down an original purchase price of $0 on our previously requalified unit.
> 
> If the difference was greater than the requalification threshold ($20K mainland, $40K elsewhere), you could retro an existing resale.



Thanks YYMSP.  That's similar to what I've been told as well.


----------



## YYJMSP

jerseygirl said:


> Thanks YYMSP.  That's similar to what I've been told as well.



The sales guy had drawn a great big line right through the requalified unit listing on our "portfolio sheet" that he had with him -- a not so subtle hint that it was worthless from his point-of-view...


----------



## DanCali

YYJMSP said:


> The sales guy had drawn a great big line right through the requalified unit listing on our "portfolio sheet" that he had with him -- a not so subtle hint that it was worthless from his point-of-view...



Did you draw a line through their unit listed on their pricing sheet and tell them it would be worthless from the market's POV in 7 days?


----------



## SDKath

DanCali said:


> Did you draw a line through their unit listed on their pricing sheet and tell them it would be worthless from the market's POV in 7 days?



LOL!  Now that's funny...

Katherine


----------



## YYJMSP

DanCali said:


> Did you draw a line through their unit listed on their pricing sheet and tell them it would be worthless from the market's POV in 7 days?



Nah, I did worse than that  

After his upgrade pitch didn't work (I explained to him how it would take 20+ years for me to break even on the new money I would give him for absolutely no increase in benefit), he went in to the "let's get you the last step up to 5 Star Elite".

I then explained to him that the only benefit that would gain me (from my personal point-of-view) would be SPG Platinum, and I could go "stay" at my local Four Points 25 single nights in the year (which would qualify me for SPG Platinum from nothing if necessary) for less than the cost of the additional MFs for the 2 new units he was trying to sell me.

The look on his face was priceless as he promptly lead me down the hallway to collect my $$ incentive...


----------



## rebrewer

Any recent experiences with upgrades and/or retros?


----------



## clsmit

In Maui they are buying back selected properties to upgrade into WKRORV/N but a pretty substantial additional payment is required (~$75K (not in finance, don't use M for 000). As the remaining original inventory (WLR, WDW, SVV) decreases they will continue to try to get inventory through a variety of means.


----------



## boisebruin

*Just returned from WKORVN update*

they are still doing the retro, except my sales lady called it legitimizing my resale purchase.  They would give you full rights for the resale week if you bought any unit there, including EOY 1bedroom or lagunamar at $29K.  It would take me to 3* elite, which I'm not sure helps me that much.  It would basically give me SPG points.  Not sure it's worth buying from the developer.


----------



## DeniseM

boisebruin said:


> they are still doing the retro, except my sales lady called it legitimizing my resale purchase.  They would give you full rights for the resale week if you bought any unit there, including EOY 1bedroom or lagunamar at $29K.  It would take me to 3* elite, which I'm not sure helps me that much.  It would basically give me SPG points.  Not sure it's worth buying from the developer.



"Legitimizing"  :hysterical: What a load of do-do!  

Don't do it - 3 Star Elite has no real value.  Unless you are going clear to 5 Star Elite, there is no reason to buy from the developer.



*If you are a newbie that stumbled upon this thread, please note that it is from 2006, and the "requalifying" rules have changed significantly.


----------



## Ken555

DeniseM said:


> "Legitimizing"  :hysterical: What a load of do-do!



I agree with Denise, but I'd use a different four letter word to describe it.


----------



## ada903

I am not sure if this is old news or new news, but a friend of mine who is at Lagunamar said they are now offering upgrades cross-property - so you can upgrade from Vistana Villages to Lagunamar, for example.  Not all properties are eligible, it seems.  They also still do the retro of existing properties with an upgrade purchase, including the "cross-property" upgrades.


----------



## KACTravels

Yes, at Lagunamar last week they offered us a "potential cross property" upgrade for our EOY WPOR - but they wanted $30K new money and would have sold us an Annual WLR and Even EOY WLR.  They also said the "cross property" deals had "business rules" and they were not sure if the specific offer would be approved.


----------



## jarta

"They also said the "cross property" deals had "business rules" and they were not sure if the specific offer would be approved."

Approval has to come from the other resort because inventory has to be traded.  I've heard Orlando gets involved, too.

But, you should not sign anything until the approval is sought and granted.  

And, you should not retro a resale week and purchase any developer week for $20K+ unless you want to get to 5 Star Elite and understand what that entails - lots and lots of timeshare-related expenditures and lots of travel planning to use up, convert or bank those 649,000+ StarOptions each year.     Salty


----------



## Danjos

So if I get this right requalifing is not an option any longer it is just best to purchase a mandatory resale and call it a day?


----------



## DavidnRobin

Danjos said:


> So if I get this right requalifing is not an option any longer it is just best to purchase a mandatory resale and call it a day?



Not quite correct - more complex than that.
You responded to a thread that hasn't had a response since 2012.
jarta - where are you?

Requalifications can still happen. The biggest problem (among others) is that you have to purchase from VSE to Requal and that most commonly involves >$20K in new money.

If going the Requal route - it is best to maximize the SOs of a V resort at a low cost and low MFs (resale M resorts already comes w/ SOs, but always best to maximize SO requal). As the SDO Plat (2Bd) mentioned in other post. Also, buy the resales(s) first.
The main goal should be too reach the 5* Elite /SPG Platinum level (w/ many caveats - 4* is not high enough) - it should be done by requalification unless money is unimportant. 

IMO  <---- note


----------



## bizaro86

Danjos said:


> So if I get this right requalifing is not an option any longer it is just best to purchase a mandatory resale and call it a day?


It depends what your goal is. If it's to have 5* elite then requal of voluntary is still the best way. If you just want star options, then mandatory resales are better.


----------



## Danjos

I guess my goal is to have the ability to take advantage of going to different locations with the sco system.  If I buy a mandatory unit that should allow me to travel to California,Hawaii, Arizona etc. Using options. I also own Sheraton Oasis 2L in platinum plus season.  So since I am close to retirement I am looking to have a place fro 4 to 6 weeks in the winter to get away from the cold.  
Thank you for the contributions so far I am educati. Myself as to how much I want to spend how much I need to spend.


----------



## VacationForever

DavidnRobin said:


> jarta - where are you?



He has not checked in since 2015.  I am one of those who read obituaries and there was a notice for someone by his name, and it is a rather common name, in either 2015/2016 (I forgot the year).  If it was him, rest in peace.


----------



## Danjos

If your asking me I am in Niagara Falls canada


----------



## VacationForever

Danjos said:


> If your asking me I am in Niagara Falls canada


No.  We are wondering where is our old friend Jarta, see post #401.


----------



## darius

DavidnRobin said:


> Not quite correct - more complex than that.
> You responded to a thread that hasn't had a response since 2012.
> jarta - where are you?
> 
> Requalifications can still happen. The biggest problem (among others) is that you have to purchase from VSE to Requal and that most commonly involves >$20K in new money.
> 
> If going the Requal route - it is best to maximize the SOs of a V resort at a low cost and low MFs (resale M resorts already comes w/ SOs, but always best to maximize SO requal). As the SDO Plat (2Bd) mentioned in other post. Also, buy the resales(s) first.
> The main goal should be too reach the 5* Elite /SPG Platinum level (w/ many caveats - 4* is not high enough) - it should be done by requalification unless money is unimportant.
> 
> IMO  <---- note



Just to confirm,  we just had a requalification close last week and this option is still available.    We did a requalification of a 3 bedroom Nanea oceanfront unit - but first purchased a week for a few thousand but had trade in value of about 30+K,  and bought an explorer package (for an extra bunch of Starpoints) - and wound up paying 27-28K (net) on the Westin Advenuras program (176,700 SO's).   Now we are 4* Elite but our main goal was to get our Nanea requalified and we are looking forward to trying the new Cabo property.    If done like this I feel it's still a great deal (of course it's a lot of $$) but you can absolutely still requalify or trade in weeks (even weeks purchased resale).    Lots of valuable information here and I highly recommend reading the sticky notes in this forum.   Good luck !


----------



## bizaro86

darius said:


> Just to confirm,  we just had a requalification close last week and this option is still available.    We did a requalification of a 3 bedroom Nanea oceanfront unit - but first purchased a week for a few thousand but had trade in value of about 30+K,  and bought an explorer package (for an extra bunch of Starpoints) - and wound up paying 27-28K (net) on the Westin Advenuras program (176,700 SO's).   Now we are 4* Elite but our main goal was to get our Nanea requalified and we are looking forward to trying the new Cabo property.    If done like this I feel it's still a great deal (of course it's a lot of $$) but you can absolutely still requalify or trade in weeks (even weeks purchased resale).    Lots of valuable information here and I highly recommend reading the sticky notes in this forum.   Good luck !



How much did you pay for the Nanea 3 bedroom resale?


----------



## duke

OP - Duke is here!


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## darius

bizaro86 said:


> How much did you pay for the Nanea 3 bedroom resale?



With closing costs, etc - $42K~.   The good news is, that through a broker which has a booth in Whalers Village sold our WKORV-N OF for $30K in one day.   After commissions to the selling broker, etc - it worked out to a ~17K "upgrade".   Our family truly loves the 3 bedroom layout at Nanea and overall feel of the resort.  Of course, now we have a voluntary resort which may not hold much value but sure beats paying $120K~ from the developer and we will use it for many, many years.


----------



## Palmtreelady1

I bought a resale in Vistana courts in 2006 and in 2008 there was a program that i bought to get requalified so I could be gold status and starpoints ect. I can not for the life of me remember what the program was or how much I paid to get it. Does anyone remember?? I am looking to get another resale but want to make sure I don't loose that status that i currently have. I do not have any paperwork on it because i didn't know what i was doing then!
Thanks!


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## VacationForever

Palmtreelady1 said:


> I bought a resale in Vistana courts in 2006 and in 2008 there was a program that i bought to get requalified so I could be gold status and starpoints ect. I can not for the life of me remember what the program was or how much I paid to get it. Does anyone remember?? I am looking to get another resale but want to make sure I don't loose that status that i currently have. I do not have any paperwork on it because i didn't know what i was doing then!
> Thanks!


You must be referring to a one-time offer for SVR resale owners, all phases except Cascades and Lakes, to enroll into SVN after the special assessment fees were paid.  I think it was an additional $599.  It was a one-off.


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## Palmtreelady1

VacationForever said:


> You must be referring to a one-time offer for SVR resale owners, all phases except Cascades and Lakes, to enroll into SVN after the special assessment fees were paid.  I think it was an additional $599.  It was a one-off.


Yes!! That was it! Thanks It was an awesome deal!!! Wish I could do that again


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## bonsai27

This thread is great but is it still accurate in 2018?  I haven’t seen anything recently on this.  I believe the $20k minimum still applies.  Please confirm the policies and concepts are accurate 7 years later.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Markus

I just traded in a week and only had to pay slightly over $10K. They also took and explorer package and retroed a week. I also got a bunch of SPG points. The product I bought was Westin Flex, and I traded Lagunamar Gold week. I think this type of transaction is very resort and salesperson specific. I don’t know whether they would have done this everywhere. Hope it helps.

Markus


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## okwiater

I, too, have traded and retroed with a $10K "new money" Flex purchase.


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## pbaby

okwiater said:


> I, too, have traded and retroed with a $10K "new money" Flex purchase.



Hi, can you share more details how this trade/retro worked?  Were you able to trade and retro 2 different weeks with $10k new money, or are you referring to the same week?  I currently own 2 weeks @148,100 StarOptions/week, bought directly from the developer.  That’s before I knew about the possibility of retro.  I am trying to make up the difference to get to 5 star elite via the most cost effective way.


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## DeniseM

pbaby - With the Marriott merger looming, I certainly wouldn't do this now, because when the 2 programs merged, we don't know what is going to happen to Elite Status. Elite Status is not guaranteed - it can change radically, depending on what Marriott wants to do.


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## DavidnRobin

I wouldn’t put in any new money for the Flex product. Buy Mandatory resale that has value.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## okwiater

pbaby said:


> Hi, can you share more details how this trade/retro worked?  Were you able to trade and retro 2 different weeks with $10k new money, or are you referring to the same week?  I currently own 2 weeks @148,100 StarOptions/week, bought directly from the developer.  That’s before I knew about the possibility of retro.  I am trying to make up the difference to get to 5 star elite via the most cost effective way.



I traded a single week and retroed a single week. I don't believe you can do two retros with a single purchase; I've only heard of it being 1:1. That's why people generally recommend retroing weeks worth 148K SOs or more. (I retroed a WSJ BV for 257K SOs).


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## okwiater

DavidnRobin said:


> I wouldn’t put in any new money for the Flex product. Buy Mandatory resale that has value.



Different strokes for different folks. Flex isn't a great product but it does provide Home Reservation Priority for the east coast properties, including SBP, which is driving distance for us. It has also had the lowest "new money" threshold for upgrade/retro transactions. A mandatory resale doesn't have value if your goal is to get to 5*.


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## okwiater

DeniseM said:


> pbaby - With the Marriott merger looming, I certainly wouldn't do this now, because when the 2 programs merged, we don't know what is going to happen to Elite Status. Elite Status is not guaranteed - it can change radically, depending on what Marriott wants to do.



I disagree. With or without a merger, none of the benefits of SVN or Elite status are guaranteed, and they never have been. Whether or not it makes sense to do this is subject to the same calculations as always, namely, can you afford the investment, can you make use of the Elite status benefit, are you comfortable with the risk that the benefits will go away, etc. I could even make the opposite argument, that historically existing owners have been grandfathered in whereas new owners are subjected to higher thresholds. It's entirely possible that after the Marriott merger is completed, that the thresholds for obtaining Elite status will go even higher. Standard disclaimers apply, e.g. caveat emptor, past performance is no guarantee of future results, etc.


----------



## YYJMSP

okwiater said:


> I traded a single week and retroed a single week. I don't believe you can do two retros with a single purchase; I've only heard of it being 1:1. That's why people generally recommend retroing weeks worth 148K SOs or more. (I retroed a WSJ BV for 257K SOs).



Closest you can get in my experience is to retro each against a separate developer EOY.  We "split" a WDW into odd/even once to do this.  if you do this end of calendar year, you might be able to apply an Explorer against each transaction for the bonus points, one dated in late Dec and one dated in early Jan, as you could only hold one Explorer per calendar year.


----------



## duke

YYJMSP said:


> Closest you can get in my experience is to retro each against a separate developer EOY.  We "split" a WDW into odd/even once to do this.


Yup, I did the same.  Split a Developer EY into 2 EOY and RETRO'ed Two EY.


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## LobsterHunter

Just wanted to provide a data point for retro info.  Some may agree or disagree with our choice, but my eyes were wide open (unlike when I first bought from developer, before finding TUG!!)
So we just purchased Westin Flex (BIG MF's!) and here are our specifics:

Bought:  2 Westin Flex 148,100 packages for a total of $106,632 with annual MF of approx. $2,695/each

Traded in: WKORN EY IV     - $44,900 (developer purchase)
                WKORN EOY IV   -$22,500  (developer purchase)
       2X Vistana Beach Club   -$22,320 (purchased for $1/ea resale 4 yrs ago, and enjoyed every year since in an oceanfront unit)

Retroed in: 1 SDO true Plat for 148,100 and 1 SMV ski week for 148,100

Current MF's for traded in units = approx. $6,450, New WF MF's= approx. $5,400

Purchase price (out of pocket) was $16,912 + $945 closing cost, minus a $1,692 explorer package credit (purchased in Cancun last yr), so a total of $16,165

Starpoints received = 50,000 purchase incentive + 110,000 from explorer package (used corporate sales instead of visiting resort) + approx. 32,000 for using SPG Amex

Who knows what Westin Flex resale will be, but I imagine for a 148,100 package it won't be a whole lot less then a WKORN IV 2br L/O.  Even a resale Plat WDW or WMH is a couple thousand w/no option to trade into Hawaii...so who really knows?


----------



## jimwu921

I feel this is a great deal. Just the spg points are worth at least 4k plus you get all the elite benefit. 



LobsterHunter said:


> Just wanted to provide a data point for retro info.  Some may agree or disagree with our choice, but my eyes were wide open (unlike when I first bought from developer, before finding TUG!!)
> So we just purchased Westin Flex (BIG MF's!) and here are our specifics:
> 
> Bought:  2 Westin Flex 148,100 packages for a total of $106,632 with annual MF of approx. $2,695/each
> 
> Traded in: WKORN EY IV     - $44,900 (developer purchase)
> WKORN EOY IV   -$22,500  (developer purchase)
> 2X Vistana Beach Club   -$22,320 (purchased for $1/ea resale 4 yrs ago, and enjoyed every year since in an oceanfront unit)
> 
> Retroed in: 1 SDO true Plat for 148,100 and 1 SMV ski week for 148,100
> 
> Current MF's for traded in units = approx. $6,450, New WF MF's= approx. $5,400
> 
> Purchase price (out of pocket) was $16,912 + $945 closing cost, minus a $1,692 explorer package credit (purchased in Cancun last yr), so a total of $16,165
> 
> Starpoints received = 50,000 purchase incentive + 110,000 from explorer package (used corporate sales instead of visiting resort) + approx. 32,000 for using SPG Amex
> 
> Who knows what Westin Flex resale will be, but I imagine for a 148,100 package it won't be a whole lot less then a WKORN IV 2br L/O.  Even a resale Plat WDW or WMH is a couple thousand w/no option to trade into Hawaii...so who really knows?


----------



## tarahsu

Hi All:
I have 2 SDO resales.  What does re qualifying mean and should I do it?


----------



## vistana101

LobsterHunter said:


> Starpoints received = 50,000 purchase incentive + 110,000 from explorer package (used corporate sales instead of visiting resort) + approx. 32,000 for using SPG Amex



Sounds like a great deal, congrats! How did you get so many points from the explorer package? We just got one for 4 nights + 80,000 points hm.


----------



## LobsterHunter

vistana101 said:


> Sounds like a great deal, congrats! How did you get so many points from the explorer package? We just got one for 4 nights + 80,000 points hm.


We bought a $2,545 explorer package last year in Cancun, thinking we might retro in 1 unit, it was 80k SO after we returned & did tour, but by buying w/out returning to resort it is actually 110k SO (the difference is they charge you those 30K SO for your 4 night stay).  We only got a $1,692 credit because it is 10% of purchase price.  We could have got full $2,545 credit for Explorer, but we would have to put in $25K+ in new money.


----------



## LobsterHunter

Also, I thought it was a min of $10k new money per retro, but not the case.  Because each purchase was over $50k (regardless of trade-in properties) we were able to retro in two 148,100 properties for only $16K new money.

We really wanted a deeded property instead of WF, but that offer was:
Take back 2 VBC prop & WKORN EY & WKORN EOY in exchange for 2 annual Ocean View units (WKORN) with new money of $46,080 + $945 closing, $2,545 explorer credit, 110k SP (explorer package) + 40k SP purchase incentive....NOT worth an extra $30K out of pocket for us!


----------



## dioxide45

LobsterHunter said:


> We bought a $2,545 explorer package last year in Cancun, thinking we might retro in 1 unit, it was 80k SO after we returned & did tour, but by buying w/out returning to resort it is actually 110k SO (the difference is they charge you those 30K SO for your 4 night stay).  We only got a $1,692 credit because it is 10% of purchase price.  We could have got full $2,545 credit for Explorer, but we would have to put in $25K+ in new money.


Just to clarify, you mean SPG points not SOs.


----------



## LobsterHunter

dioxide45 said:


> Just to clarify, you mean SPG points not SOs.


My bad, yes 110k SP instead of 80K SP, 30K SP is what they deduct for the 4 night stay


----------



## SteveS1

Just wondering if anyone has retroed/requalified Sheraton Flex FO or know if it can be done?

I currently have 206K Sheraton FO, requaled LT ski week 129K so and Harborside 1br premium winter week 81K..all resale then  requaled , (thanks to learnings from this thread!) so I’m 4* elite.

I use all the SO/FO for travel or rental and have been short in recent years . Also 4* isn’t terribly valuable.

Now may not be the right time to go for 5* but if it can be done may think about picking up some FO resale.

Thanks!


----------



## KACTravels

LobsterHunter said:


> Just wanted to provide a data point for retro info.  Some may agree or disagree with our choice, but my eyes were wide open (unlike when I first bought from developer, before finding TUG!!)
> So we just purchased Westin Flex (BIG MF's!) and here are our specifics:
> 
> Bought:  2 Westin Flex 148,100 packages for a total of $106,632 with annual MF of approx. $2,695/each
> 
> Traded in: WKORN EY IV     - $44,900 (developer purchase)
> WKORN EOY IV   -$22,500  (developer purchase)
> 2X Vistana Beach Club   -$22,320 (purchased for $1/ea resale 4 yrs ago, and enjoyed every year since in an oceanfront unit)
> 
> Retroed in: 1 SDO true Plat for 148,100 and 1 SMV ski week for 148,100
> 
> Current MF's for traded in units = approx. $6,450, New WF MF's= approx. $5,400
> 
> Purchase price (out of pocket) was $16,912 + $945 closing cost, minus a $1,692 explorer package credit (purchased in Cancun last yr), so a total of $16,165
> 
> 
> Did this make you  4* Elite?


----------



## tomandrobin

LobsterHunter said:


> Bought:  2 Westin Flex 148,100 packages for a total of $106,632 with annual MF of approx. $2,695/each
> 
> Traded in: WKORN EY IV     - $44,900 (developer purchase)
> WKORN EOY IV   -$22,500  (developer purchase)
> 2X Vistana Beach Club   -$22,320 (purchased for $1/ea resale 4 yrs ago, and enjoyed every year since in an oceanfront unit)
> 
> Retroed in: 1 SDO true Plat for 148,100 and 1 SMV ski week for 148,100
> 
> Current MF's for traded in units = approx. $6,450, New WF MF's= approx. $5,400
> 
> Purchase price (out of pocket) was $16,912 + $945 closing cost, minus a $1,692 explorer package credit (purchased in Cancun last yr), so a total of $16,165
> 
> Starpoints received = 50,000 purchase incentive + 110,000 from explorer package (used corporate sales instead of visiting resort) + approx. 32,000 for using SPG Amex



Very nice! I like the creative trade-in/retro deal you made.


----------



## LobsterHunter

5* w/other units we already owned


----------



## ERDoc74

Is this still an option?   I am very interested in doing this if so, but curious why it’s been since 2018 sine a post on this thread was made….?


----------



## CPNY

ERDoc74 said:


> Is this still an option?   I am very interested in doing this if so, but curious why it’s been since 2018 sine a post on this thread was made….?


Yeah you can purchase a flex plan from vistana right now to retro/enroll a resale. One thing I wouldn’t do If I were you is give back your WSJ unit. If you purchased that unit resale and want to retro the unit, you can buy a flex point package.


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