# won a bid on ebay for Orange Tree Golf resort



## burgundyna (Apr 17, 2007)

GOLD CROWN Scottsdale ARIZONA Red Week GOLF Timeshare - summer from late May to early September.  MF is 552.  Bid was $26. EOY, deeded (not part of SVC).

Is this a good resort?
Will I have problems later trying to unload it?
What do you think about the resort - in general and during the season mentioned above?
What is its trading power?


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## mshatty (Apr 17, 2007)

It's a little bit warm in Arizona that time of year.


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## burgundyna (Apr 17, 2007)

*LOL*

You are absolutely right.  The description said it was "red-high." I guess even though it is hot, it is the summer and the only time when families can travel together.


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## Spence (Apr 17, 2007)

burgundyna said:


> GOLD CROWN Scottsdale ARIZONA Red Week GOLF Timeshare - summer from late May to early September.  MF is 552.  Bid was $26. EOY, deeded (not part of SVC).
> Is this a good resort?
> Will I have problems later trying to unload it?
> What do you think about the resort - in general and during the season mentioned above?
> What is its trading power?



Is this a good resort? No, not an especially good resort
Will I have problems later trying to unload it? Yes, you will.
What do you think about the resort - in general and during the season mentioned above?Not much, hot isn't the word for the season you bought.
What is its trading power? Not very good, 1BR isn't exactly a family sized unit.

I have a friend who owns here, loves it, but only because he lives in Scottsdale and uses it for the golf privileges.  I think you jumped in way too fast, these are questions you should ask before you bid or buy.


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## Sandy (Apr 17, 2007)

While the previous posters gave accurate info, how bad can this be for only $26??  Am I missing something? 

You can't even buy a decent meal for $26, and to get a timeshare for this price has to be good. 

$552 MF is not too high, considering some that I have seen. 

Am I missing something?


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## AzMin (Apr 18, 2007)

burgundyna said:


> GOLD CROWN Scottsdale ARIZONA Red Week GOLF Timeshare - summer from late May to early September.  MF is 552.  Bid was $26. EOY, deeded (not part of SVC).
> 
> Is this a good resort?
> Will I have problems later trying to unload it?
> ...



Have you ever been to Scottsdale in the summer? It's just north of Phoenix and by Memorial Day, that area has already reached 100+ degrees and generally stays that way until way past Labor Day. 

I don't understand why this is considered a red week when it's really low season. As the temps rise, hotel and resort room prices drop.  

It's a good resort if you're an avid golfer and live near there. Just try and tee off by 6AM before it gets too hot. 

Min


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## burgundyna (Apr 18, 2007)

*What golf privileges?*



Spence said:


> I have a friend who owns here, loves it, but only because he lives in Scottsdale and uses it for the golf privileges.



What golf privileges?  Are those golf privileges available to me even outside of my TS week?  Actually, my husband is from AZ - Phx and his whole family still lives there.  His dad just retired and LOVES to golf.  If there are golf privileges that I can pass along to my "guests" it might be worthwhile.

I know AZ is hot but the mornings are lovely - all the way up to 10 a.m. or so.  And the MF is only due on the use years NOT annually.  

AZMin --> Isn't it "dry heat"...? 

So the real question here I guess would be, in this sale is consummated, would I have a difficult time unloading this TS even if I were to give it away?

Anyhow, I am the winning bidder but I asked the seller to give me information to verify his representations but have not heard from the Seller yet.  Seller required payment within 5 days of close of the auction.  Tomorrow will be the 5th day.  While they did send me the contract, I told them that I wanted permission to contact the resort to verify the info, a copy of the title information their retained title company purportedly reviewed to guarantee that it is a clear and free title, and the actual legal description (I am going to transfer it into our family trust).  I just emailed them this morning but they have not responded.  Actually, they have not been the most responsive.  For your reference, the ebay seller is 43namal.  They might be a 100% seller but I am not impressed.

So the real question is - later, would I have a problem unloading it even if I gave it away?  (I still would like info on the golf privileges.)


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## barndweller (Apr 18, 2007)

Just FYI

I purchased from 43namal a few years ago an agent named Jimmy Pappas. He was very responsive & even reserved a week in my name before closing. 43namal is one of the e-bay names for a huge TS reseller Vacation Innovations, Inc. They get lots of inventory from people who just want to unload their TS & often pay something like $3000 to VI to take it off their hands. The company then sells these units on e-bay for pennies because they have already made money. We Tuggers call them "post card" companies because they solicit business by sending out bulk mailings. They are usually very easy to deal with as a purchaser of the units they sell. You really should call the number you were given at time of purchase & talk to the particular salesman who offered this unit. Although this TS is not a great trader, it is a fairly nice place & for the price could be a nice utility unit for either your own use or for decent trades. If you find you want to get rid of it down the road, you can sell it for cheap just like you bought it.

Just be sure the description on your contract matches what you purchased. VI & their self-run closing service tends to mess up little details. Closing, however, is usually swift & painless, other than being over priced.

Call the salesman.


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## UWSurfer (Apr 18, 2007)

Hmmm...I had a different salesman associated with the "43namal" name for different property I purchased a couple  months ago on ebay for few dollars.  VI is the company associated and the closing company shares the same address in Orlando. 

I had them offer to reserve a week for me as well, but they dropped the ball and let it slip.  I was offerred a week at the end of October...I was looking for a summer week.  They offered to deposit it in RCI and transfer it to me once the resort has me down as the new owner.   I've not heard more from them on this, but they basically said this happens sometimes, but the savings on the purchase price should makeup for the missed week this year.  I generally agreed as the entire purchase and closing was less than $1000.

I received a letter that the unit closed a week ago and am now waiting for the recorded deed.  Once that gets back they notify the resort.   I would have defined closed as having a recorded deed and the resort ownership change completed...but it appears the t/s industry doesn't work that way.

In any event, with these exceptions noted, it took them about 4 - 5 weeks and I'm ok with it.


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## Spence (Apr 18, 2007)

burgundyna said:


> So the real question is - later, would I have a problem unloading it even if I gave it away?  (I still would like info on the golf privileges.)


I already answered this.
Call the resort about the golf, I expect it is just for the owner, how that translates to a Family Trust is not my expertise.


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## tashamen (Apr 18, 2007)

If you're worried about being able to unload it before you even bought - why would you even buy it when there are so many better resorts out there?

$26 may sound like a bargain, but if you think you may want to trade it rather than use it you may want to think again.  This resort is one that I would never consider trading into as it has a very low quality rating in II (which I can tell because my high quality resorts never can see it), and all the untis are 1br but only sleep 2 privately.  Add to that that you're talking about the summer.  Maybe it trades better in RCI, but considering the number of better resorts in that area the supply (in summer at least) is probably more than demand.


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## Bill4728 (Apr 18, 2007)

I agree that this isn't a great time to visit AZ but I'm not as worried as the others. It will trade for the TS areas which are over built. So although you'll never trade this for a ski week or Hawaii, you'll likely be able to trade into Orlando, Williamsburg or maybe LV. 

The resort may also have owner "bonus time" were you can get super cheap rentals at the resort which they only give to the owners. So if your visiting AZ in Nov, you maybe able to take advantage of this. 

Good Luck


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## barndweller (Apr 18, 2007)

> So although you'll never trade this for a ski week or Hawaii, you'll likely be able to trade into Orlando, Williamsburg or maybe LV.



I was thinking along the same lines as Bill on the trading issue. Why use a prime trader for those easy exchanges? There's something to be said for having a good little mediocre unit in the portfolio for those. We must remember that all of us have our own ideas when judging the overall quality of a resort. I read the reviews to get other's comments & then decide if their expectations are similar to mine before crossing some of the lesser rated places off my personal list. For some of us the flash & glitter isn't as important as roomy & quiet. Give me a small pool with plenty of shadey lounges over a mega-pool full of inebriated chair hoggers anyday. No amount of flat screen tvs or in room internet access or on- site full service spa will ever make up for paper thin walls or indifferent staff or rock hard beds in my book. What is a 9 in one persons catelogue could very easily be a 5 in mine & vice versa. 

And since the OP has family in the area, it would be convenient for visits. He should call the resort and ask about owner priviledges such as bonus time & day use, etc. Some of these smaller independent places have all sorts of perks that make them a great bargain.


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## burgundyna (Apr 18, 2007)

*Orange Tree Golf Resort*

I called the resort and found out a few things...

As a deeded owner, the owner has access to the resort pool and 25% off tee time, and 20% off food, and 20% off private catering all year round which are perks available to SVC owners.

The only thing - they are saying that only the owner's immediate family will have access to the pool.  That won't work for us because the whole point of going to AZ is to visit my husband's family.  Does anyone know how this TS would work in a family trust context if I were to name myself, my father-in-law, and my brother-in-law as trustees?

Also, this is an EVERY YEAR with annual maintenance fee of 552 NOT every other year.  Does it make this TS more valuable.


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## Sandy (Apr 18, 2007)

Is it possible to put all names on the deed, that way everyone will have access as owners?


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## burgundyna (Apr 18, 2007)

Yes, but I was thinking that putting it into a trust would give me more flexibility - something like - Myself, Husband, Father, and Brother in Law acting as trustees and as immediate beneficiaries, where only myself and husband has authority to borrow against, sell, or encumber, and upon the death of Father and Brother, their rights as beneficiaries lapses and their position as trustee terminates.

With a deed - you simply cannot disallow the owner from selling, encumbering, or borrowing against their rights in the property.


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## Spence (Apr 18, 2007)

burgundyna said:


> Yes, but I was thinking that putting it into a trust would give me more flexibility - something like - Myself, Husband, Father, and Brother in Law acting as trustees and as immediate beneficiaries, where only myself and husband has authority to borrow against, sell, or encumber, and upon the death of Father and Brother, their rights as beneficiaries lapses and their position as trustee terminates.
> 
> With a deed - you simply cannot disallow the owner from selling, encumbering, or borrowing against their rights in the property.


Sounds like you know more about Trusts than you do about TS, keep up the effort.


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## barndweller (Apr 18, 2007)

Burgundya
I am wondering if this is your first timeshare purchase. It is unfortunate that you didn't do a little more research before purchasing but that is really a moot point now. You now have the means at hand to learn how to maximize your use of your purchase. Since you bought a deeded week you are not a part of the Shell Club. Do a search for Shell Vacation Club here and at at TS4Ms. Learn everything you can about your timeshare. The collective knowledge available on the forums will help you to make the  best use of it based on your needs. Check the points forums for information about the Shell Vacation Club. Some folks think the fees are too high to belong and you would give up your deed to join. On the other hand, you might consider the club to give you more flexability. You need to do some additional homework rather than relying on the opinions of others.

Getting an EVERY year purchase means you have doubled your yearly committment for maintanence fees but of course you also get to use it twice as much. And most people are surprised to learn that Interval often gives ACs for summer desert locations. I received one this year for a summer week where it is scorching hot but the golfers love it for the bargain rates. Different strokes as they say! Works for me since I got 2 weeks where I want to go for my 1 week deposit.


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## burgundyna (Apr 18, 2007)

What is a TS4Ms?


Barndweller - actually, yes this was my first TS.  The deal is not totally done.  The seller is giving me an option to go forward or back out because his description was not accurate - he said EOY when it was actually EY.

I tried calling the resort but they would not give details of how the system works - whether as an owner, when I visit the resort to dink in the pool, if I can bring a guest.  And, apparently, the rights conferred to me as a deed owner is different from the rights I woudld be entitled to as a SVC points owner who happens to use this club.


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## Harry (Apr 19, 2007)

*You did well*

We are owners and have been for many years.  So, there is the bias. We use it strictly to trade and have never stayed there.  However, we do use it for golf, and day visits.  Also, the restaurant is decent and we have spent many happy hours there.  As owners, we get a good break on the convention rooms, and I have used that for meetings and business purposes.  It is probably the most centrally located timeshare in Phoenix.  

The rooms are small but well decorated.  I would not recommend the resort for families with more than one child.

Orange Tree is part of the Shell family of resorts.  We converted to points and I probably would have jumped on your purchase if I had seen it.  I buy and sell Shell Points for around $1.00 a point.  So, you stole it but I think even Spence above would agree to that.

It trades well within II.  We have traded all over the country very well with Orange Tree.  Within Shell, we have traded into much nicer resorts in Hawaii (all three Shell properties on the BI, and Beachboy in Kaua i).  Currently we have a request for Napa.  

The golf course is good and a local favorite.  As owners, you do get a considerable discount on green fees.  

Your purchase was during the off season.  Good news is that you can get even more discounts for golf.  Bad news, is it can be hot to normal people.  We who live here think nothing about being out in 110 degree heat.  

I would submit you will be able to unload it for much more than you paid for it.  If you use it to trade, you probably will not want to let it go.  Way to go on your purchase.


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## Bill4728 (Apr 19, 2007)

burgundyna said:


> What is a TS4Ms?



TS4Ms ( www.timeshareforums.com ) is another TS owners website . It is smaller, with less activity but lots of very knowledgable posters. Many Tuggers belong to both. 



> - actually, yes this was my first TS.  The deal is not totally done.  The seller is giving me an option to go forward or back out because his description was not accurate - he said EOY when it was actually EY.


The price is great and the MF are good too. Be happy you did well for a newbie. :whoopie: 

Again this isn't the best resort and it will not be a GREAT trader but it will trade into lots of nice places.


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## burgundyna (Apr 19, 2007)

*got cold feet*

If I had read the last two posters comments earlier perhaps I would have changed my mind.  I had Just emailed the ebay seller saying I am not going to buy it.  We don't have as much vacation time as all you sophisticated TUGGERS and a EY TS versus an EOY TS is too much for us, especially given that MF is annual and that we are presently trying to conclude a purchase of Worldmark points.  I'm sure you will see it posted on ebay soon.

Wish me luck in concluding the Worldmark deal.  I'm getting 9000 at $.40 per share and with all of the 10,000+ banked credits.


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## Spence (Apr 19, 2007)

burgundyna said:


> Wish me luck in concluding the Worldmark deal.  I'm getting 9000 at $.40 per share and with all of the 10,000+ banked credits.


Now that's a super deal, I need to find one like that and I'd probably be a WM owner.


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## Bill4728 (Apr 19, 2007)

burgundyna said:


> Wish me luck in concluding the Worldmark deal.  I'm getting 9000 at $.40 per share and with all of the 10,000+ banked credits.



9000 WM pts at $0.40 pt ($3600) that is some great deal !!


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## barndweller (Apr 19, 2007)

You will be much happier. Much better bang for the buck and with the flexability you need. You can even use it for exchanges to Phoenix if you want! Good decision.


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## Harry (Apr 19, 2007)

*I will check Ebay*

We all will be happy because I am interested in buying what you did not.  I am not a big Worldmart fan.


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## Hoc (Apr 20, 2007)

Spence said:


> What is its trading power? Not very good, 1BR isn't exactly a family sized unit.



Spence, I disagree with your statement above.  I own a 1-br. there, and I have consistently gotten good trades, including Paris over July 4th, Custom House in May, and a 2-br. Hyatt High Sierra Lodge in January.


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## Spence (Apr 20, 2007)

Harry said:


> We all will be happy because I am interested in buying what you did not.  I am not a big Worldmart fan.


Get the contact info from OP and get it for $26 before it goes back on eBay, it'll save the lister the posting fee, they'll most probably accept your offer.


Hoc said:


> Spence, I disagree with your statement above.  I own a 1-br. there, and I have consistently gotten good trades, including Paris over July 4th, Custom House in May, and a 2-br. Hyatt High Sierra Lodge in January.


I bow to your expertise.


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## Hoc (Apr 20, 2007)

Spence said:


> I bow to your expertise.




And I to yours. 

BTW, my unit is also summer, but I book a holiday week, one year out, and that is probably part of what gets me the good trades.


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