# I think I like this new TPU system...



## goofygirl17 (Jul 20, 2011)

Just exchanged for 2 weeks offsite at Disney.  Vacation Villages cost 5 tpu, Wyndham Cypress Palms cost 6.  Got a 1 br at both places.  I still have enough points to get 2 more weeks if I want  

I don't think we'll stay onsite for quite a while if this is the way things work.  I can't see "spending" that many TPU plus paying the extra $95 just to stay onsite.


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 20, 2011)

I agree the TPU to stay on site doesn't make sense, unless you really want to be immersed in Disney.

Remember RCI is loving this TPU system too. Before your 1 unit produced 1 trade for 179 dollars (or whatever it is).  Now your one unit (if it has good value) can produce 1 up to 10 trades, putting more money in RCI's pocket for each trade.  But it also makes you happy because you can provide units for friends / relatives / extended stays.

Everyone is happy.  Except Carolinian (but that is a different story)


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## antjmar (Jul 21, 2011)

goofygirl17 said:


> Just exchanged for 2 weeks offsite at Disney.  Vacation Villages cost 5 tpu, Wyndham Cypress Palms cost 6.  Got a 1 br at both places.  I still have enough points to get 2 more weeks if I want
> 
> I don't think we'll stay onsite for quite a while if this is the way things work.  I can't see "spending" that many TPU plus paying the extra $95 just to stay onsite.


Wow that sounds like a deal, 2 weeks 11TPUS!!! How many TPUS was Disney for the same weeks?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 21, 2011)

It would be 64 TPU's for 2 one bedrooms at DVC resorts.


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## goofygirl17 (Jul 21, 2011)

There was a studio available at Boardwalk- it would have been 22 TPU plus the $95 fee plus the exchange fee.  Just not worth it for us.  We loved staying at OKW in April but offsite is just such a better deal.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 21, 2011)

I hope more and more people stay off-site, now so DVC inventory lasts longer than a few seconds in RCI.  

I don't know why tuggers complain about that $95 fee so much?  I think tuggers are forgetting that most families don't go to Disney more that once or twice in their child's lifetime (or at least while the kids are still living at home).  For those families, I bet a good many of them fly and for $95, they get free transportation to and from the airport for everyone and then they don't need a car at Disney because there if free bussing.  That $95 fee is well worth it to me for the free airport transfer alone!

I get that no other resort except Manhattan Club charges an additional trade fee but what other resort beside Disney gives you free bussing and picks you up from the airport and drops you back off for FREE!!!

My biggest complaint with RCI is not the $95 extra fee for DVC, it's the $200 RCI charges for trades.  I'm a WM owners and have to call so I don't get the $10 or so internet booking discount.  I like II so much better.  Costs me $109 for a Marriott trade.  Only down side is no DVC in II but trading costs are so much more affordable.

I feel very indifferent about RCI these days with the new TPU system.  I like how many people can get more trades than before but I do not like the very high trade fees RCI has.


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## Bourne (Jul 21, 2011)

If you are at Disney, chances are you are at some park or other 5-7 days. That's $70-98. Think of it as prepaying 7 days of park parking with in/out privileges. 

In our case what you get is the flexibility of the shuttles. With little kids and families that want to split up, there is no other option.


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## goofygirl17 (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm not complaining about the $95 fee, we've stayed onsite twice now and paid it.  We always rent a car so we don't use buses- except for MK sometimes.  I just think it needs to be included in the calculations.  If I can stay offsite for up to 4 weeks for the price of 1 week in a studio- and save the $95 fee then that's what I'll do.

We really enjoy being on-property but it just doesn't work right now.  We get annual passes so we don't pay for parking anyway.  

Enjoy!


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## antjmar (Jul 21, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> It would be 64 TPU's for 2 one bedrooms at DVC resorts.


64 TPUS plus an extra $190 for disney vs 11 TPU'S.  To me thats a no brainer! Thats an amazing deal!


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## bnoble (Jul 21, 2011)

> Think of it as prepaying 7 days of park parking with in/out privileges.


I've mentioned this before, possibly in response to someone else, but *everyone* has in/out privileges at the WDW parking lots.  Offsite guests pay $14/day, but can come and go as many times as they please for just one charge each day (even to different parks, if they like).

The beauty of the TPU system *isn't* that offsite resorts are cheap, or that Disney resorts are worth it. The beauty of the system is that people can decide what something is worth to them, and get what they want without having a perverse incentive to take what they don't really need.

In the week-for-week system, if you wanted a Disney resort, you either had the trade power to see it, or you didn't.  Now, if it is important enough to you, you can combine units even if one week alone would not have been sufficient.  Likewise, if being onsite isn't super important to you, you have an incentive to take some other resort, and bank the leftovers for later.  In the week-for-week system, there was no such incentive, so people tended to take the best thing available, whether they really wanted it or not.  How many of us used to take 2BRs rather than 1BRs, "just in case"?  After all, the cost was the same, so why not?  Now, the difference isn't very large, but there *is* a difference.

I just confirmed a 2BR for summer '13 at the Royal Regency just outside of Paris.  I had to use "one and a half" of my good-but-not-quite-tiger weeks to do it, but it was worth it to me.  Some might say I'm a fool for using "more than a week."  But, prior to the TPU system, I would not have even had the option.


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 21, 2011)

I agree I love being able to combine to get something worth more, or being able to use one deposit for multiple vacations. The flexibility is great! Your choice.

The price - 180 or 200 - is not, but that is the price of doing business with the exchange company that has DVC and the most inventory.  Right now I am pleased with RCI, it has shed light on what thy deem good and what you can get for your trades.


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## timeos2 (Jul 21, 2011)

jdunn1 said:


> I hope more and more people stay off-site, now so DVC inventory lasts longer than a few seconds in RCI.
> 
> I don't know why tuggers complain about that $95 fee so much?  I think tuggers are forgetting that most families don't go to Disney more that once or twice in their child's lifetime (or at least while the kids are still living at home).  For those families, I bet a good many of them fly and for $95, they get free transportation to and from the airport for everyone and then they don't need a car at Disney because there if free bussing.  That $95 fee is well worth it to me for the free airport transfer alone!
> 
> ...



If you are being ripped off for $95 then crowded, hot & inconvenient buses etc are not free. Plus all transportation is free to everyone even with an expired ticket/pass.

It is a pure ripoff period.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 21, 2011)

It's a ripoff to you and I am sure it is a ripoff to a good many of the tuggers who vacation several weeks a year in Orlando, alone.

It's not a ripoff to me who can avoid the expense of a rental car by staying on-site and not having to pay for transportation to/from the airport.  And on top of that, I don't have to check-in my bags.

Sure the busses are pretty horrible, but I took my five year old to Disney two Springs ago.  It was just him and me and the busses were his favorite thing to do, especially sitting at the back of the bus.

Just remember, most people do not see the world as you do and that's okay.



timeos2 said:


> If you are being ripped off for $95 then crowded, hot & inconvenient buses etc are not free. Plus all transportation is free to everyone even with an expired ticket/pass.
> 
> It is a pure ripoff period.


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## antjmar (Jul 21, 2011)

jdunn1 said:


> Sure the busses are pretty horrible, but I took my five year old to Disney two Springs ago.  It was just him and me and the busses were his favorite thing to do, especially sitting at the back of the bus.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> :rofl:  My 2 year old enjoyed the foot shower at the pool more than anything else last year at MB! :hysterical:


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 21, 2011)

At the very least the 95$ covers your parking. Because when you stay on-site you get to park for free.  Not saying I stay on-site, because I usually don't.  But if you go in the parks for 7 days then it covers your parking - even if you do drive. That is something.

And if you don't drive, I guess you could find a resort with a free shuttle to the parks that is outside disney.  But you would have to get a cab to the resort and back to the airport, or catch a public bus or something - not sure how much that would cost?? And how many resorts have free transportation? Maybe Bonnet Creek does?


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## bnoble (Jul 21, 2011)

> My 2 year old enjoyed the foot shower at the pool more than anything else last year at MB!


The Unofficial Guide folks often say that the thing your kids will remember most about your Disney vacation is the hotel pool.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 21, 2011)

IMO, the Disney on-site resorts are those occasional, blowout type vacation...My daughters 5 now, i plan to take her to Disney ONCE before she's nine(maybe once more between 12-15) and i haven't been there is close to 20yrs....But because i'm only going once with her, i want to make the very most of the experience...i'm looking for a huge Savannah view room at AKV, going to do all the disney dinning, charactor meals, everything disney for all 168hrs of the vacation, its going to cost me a mint but for the experience IMO, its worth it.....The $95 to me, is worth it for the value of the blowout disney vacation

For people that go to disney several times a year or even every two years....the magic may have worn off a bit, staying off site is fine...you've already seen it all and done it all....If i went to disney more then twice in my lifetime, i may not need to stay on-site either


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## janej (Jul 21, 2011)

I think the new system is a huge success just because people can now choose what they want given the price tag.  Without the TPU difference, everyone who want to get DVC.    

The downside is there is hardly anything available for last minute travel.  I used to go to RCI for last minute steals, now I use II more and more.


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 21, 2011)

The magic hasn't worn off for those that keep going.  It's just we know how to have magic off-property and on-property. There are some amazing off-property resorts.

(I agree with everything else you said.)


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

goofygirl17 said:


> Just exchanged for 2 weeks offsite at Disney.  Vacation Villages cost 5 tpu, Wyndham Cypress Palms cost 6.  Got a 1 br at both places.  I still have enough points to get 2 more weeks if I want
> 
> I don't think we'll stay onsite for quite a while if this is the way things work.  I can't see "spending" that many TPU plus paying the extra $95 just to stay onsite.



The problem is RCI's reverse pump and dump at VV@Parkway when you compare the inflated values they give for deposits there, and at similar overbuilt / oversupply resorts to the real world values they have to take when someone trades in.  That is being made up for by undervaluing deposits from the hard to get resorts when they are deposited at RCI.

As to liking the new system, that depends a lot on what you have to deposit and what you want to trade for.  For example, the last edition of _Timesharing Today_ magazine however printed the comments submitted by their readers on whether they liked the new ''Points Lite''. The spread was 8 who liked the new system, 15 who did not like the new system, and 4 who had mixed feelings.


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## Margariet (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> The problem is RCI's reverse pump and dump at VV@Parkway when you compare the inflated values they give for deposits there, and at similar overbuilt / oversupply resorts to the real world values they have to take when someone trades in.  That is being made up for by undervaluing deposits from the hard to get resorts when they are deposited at RCI.
> 
> As to liking the new system, that depends a lot on what you have to deposit and what you want to trade for.  For example, the last edition of _Timesharing Today_ magazine however printed the comments submitted by their readers on whether they liked the new ''Points Lite''. The spread was 8 who liked the new system, 15 who did not like the new system, and 4 who had mixed feelings.



About those figures: are these totals? I mean did they interview 27 persons?? And what are the reasons for liking, not liking and mixed feelings? Since many TUGgers like the new system, because many of us now have much more weeks I would be highly interested in those reasons.


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 22, 2011)

Margariet - Just forget about it, if any one is ever happy about the TPU and RCI, Carolinian will figure out a way to rain on their parade.

By the way 27 is too small a sample size to get an accurate picture. There are over 3 million subscribing members in RCI.  To have a plus or mius 5% confidence that his assertion is correct they would need to interview 384 people: http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm   They also would need to poll random RCI subscribers and not just people who have a subscription to Timesharing Today.  His sample size and sample group skew the results.  Now could those be correct results maybe but they could just as well be incorrect results - no way of telling with that sample croup.

And really what does it matter what the 15 people think, What matters is what 1 person thinks - you.

Carolinian - Stop raining on people's parades.  You don't have to post in every thread about TPU, especially one where someone is just celebrating what they got!


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 22, 2011)

Margariet said:


> About those figures: are these totals? I mean did they interview 27 persons?? And what are the reasons for liking, not liking and mixed feelings? Since many TUGgers like the new system, because many of us now have much more weeks I would be highly interested in those reasons.



Good questions. But I find that most people take a much longer time frame to accept any type of change than the less than 7 months that Points Lite (TPUs) have been around. Tuggers are much better at playing the TS game, than a single person who either called into RCI or signed in online, who was looking at TPUs verses the old trade week for week. 

Look at how many Tuggers PAID to join RCI Platimum with the first month. PPs mention the DVC desirable trades; I snagged a Hyatt Regency exchange (7 TPUs) and went to Chicago for the first time for the July 4th week. We teach ourselves and we teach among each other. 

Would all timeshare owners become mini-Tuggers, if they knew to read here? IMHO, no. We all have family and friends who think someone else should "do" for them. I have a good retired friend who is very intelligent, computer literate, has the money and refuses to learn/plan his timeshare vacations. If I don't sit down and book his vacations (after I get out my baseball bat), his points would just expire - seems Sept thru Dec are his travel months - to avoid his points expiring. And, there is NO WAY, I will ever introduce him to the deposit to an exchange company to extend his points.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 22, 2011)

> disney dinning, charactor meals, everything disney



The food will be a huge expense, if you are doing the dining plan.  I think it's outrageously expensive for the DDP.  The $95 is a very minor expense.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 22, 2011)

> The problem is RCI's reverse pump and dump at VV@Parkway when you compare the inflated values they give for deposits



You keep saying this, and it's not the only resort where values are higher than the exchanges to get back into the resort.  MOST deposits are inflated to the cost of the same weeks, same resort.  It's okay with me.  I get some value back with all of my deposits.  

I feel badly for the people who own VV and have no idea that depositing a better week will net more vacations.  Those in the know are so few....and not that the information is not there for everyone, because it sure is.


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## vckempson (Jul 22, 2011)

Don't let carolinian keep spreading his falsehoods.  Several months back, I did extensive research on a couple dozen resorts in Orlando.  VV@P was no more inflated than any other Orlando resorts that have lockoffs.  They were all in the same neighborhood.


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## tombo (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> As to liking the new system, that depends a lot on what you have to deposit and what you want to trade for.  For example, the last edition of _Timesharing Today_ magazine however printed the comments submitted by their readers on whether they liked the new ''Points Lite''. The spread was 8 who liked the new system, 15 who did not like the new system, and 4 who had mixed feelings.



How many times did you vote? If it is like the threads here all 15 negative responses would have been made by you.


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## LadyBeBop (Jul 22, 2011)

bnoble said:


> I just confirmed a 2BR for summer '13 at the Royal Regency just outside of Paris.  I had to use "one and a half" of my good-but-not-quite-tiger weeks to do it, but it was worth it to me.  Some might say I'm a fool for using "more than a week."  But, prior to the TPU system, I would not have even had the option.



We've been trying for nearly 20 years to go to Myrtle Beach during the summer.  Finally able to exchange for Summer 2012 (actually Labor Day week).  We had to use a little over a week.  But it's worth it.  We're going to Myrtle Beach.  Can't wait.


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

tombo said:


> How many times did you vote? If it is like the threads here all 15 negative responses would have been made by you.



If you had bothered to be informed and read that headline story in _Timesharing Today_ you would know that each quote had mostly actual names and cities of those responding, and in a few cases first names only or assumed names like ''a satisfied 29 year timeshare owner who is disgruntled with RCI''.  How about doing your homework and trying to know something about what you are posting on before hitting the keyboard.


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

All inflated.  The values the OP gave to trade in are the REAL values there, not the inflated values RCI hands out like candy for deposits.  VV@P is the poster boy for all of it since it is the resort that longtime Tugger and RCI employee Bootleg identified as the resort with the biggest oversupply in the entire RCI network.

And Cullen, why don't you mention that you happen to be an owner at VV@P which certainly goes to your objectivity.



vckempson said:


> Don't let carolinian keep spreading his falsehoods.  Several months back, I did extensive research on a couple dozen resorts in Orlando.  VV@P was no more inflated than any other Orlando resorts that have lockoffs.  They were all in the same neighborhood.


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 22, 2011)

Why does every thread have to become about this. Yikes.


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

Oh, yes, RCI does indeed inflate other resorts, particularly in overbuilt areas.  But the reverse side of the coin is that in areas that are very hard to trade into, RCI often does the reverse and gives less for a deposit than they demand to exchange back in.  JLB found quite a bit of that in SW Florida, his area of expertise, and several respondants in the front page story in the last issue of _Timesharing Today_ magazine cited this as part of the reason they did not like the new Points Lite when they discovered the same situation at their own resorts.  I keep trying to find a summer week online for my UK resort to see how much more RCI is getting for trades in than they are giving for deposits, but it rarely shows up online any time of the year and so far not at all for summer.

In it the combined shell game of overpointing some deposits while underpointed others, and actually being straight up on some, that corrupts the whole system.




rickandcindy23 said:


> You keep saying this, and it's not the only resort where values are higher than the exchanges to get back into the resort.  MOST deposits are inflated to the cost of the same weeks, same resort.  It's okay with me.  I get some value back with all of my deposits.
> 
> I feel badly for the people who own VV and have no idea that depositing a better week will net more vacations.  Those in the know are so few....and not that the information is not there for everyone, because it sure is.


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## Margariet (Jul 22, 2011)

DavidnJudy said:


> Why does every thread have to become about this. Yikes.



 Because some people never see the good things in life! We are very happy with the new system but there are people who don't even join RCI but still don't like it.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> In it the combined shell game of overpointing some deposits while underpointed others, and actually being straight up on some, that corrupts the whole system.



How are we to know what determining factor RCI uses to point Resorts? Maybe over populated areas are Supposed to have more points within their system?  Maybe places that have Low MF, but high demand have lower TPU's because they're cheaper to buy then exchange? There are hundreds of different little things they could have decided internally when it comes to pointing these resorts...The main thing is though...They decide the TPU values based on what THEY deem is the TPU value of those resorts...

Over pointing and Under pointing is just based on YOUR assumption, not everyones...If RCI set TPU's by how YOU felt about the resorts and area's....What would happen with those thousands who disagree with your opinion?

I like the new RCI System, NOT because i own at an overpointed Resort(Which i do) But because of the transparency and ability to trade above and below what you own...If i get 28 TPU's for my TS, i can clearly looking up what 28 TPU's gets....i can 2 places for 14 each or deposit another year and rent a place for 56 TPU or just trade for another 28 TPU resort


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 22, 2011)

Royal Regency in paris is probably similar to what you have in London.

Someone spotted a 2 Bedroom July 6th 2013 for 54 TPU (to trade into)

If you deposited that same week you would get 56 TPU.

That seems correct.

--------------------

By the way your Manhattan Club example:

Someone spotted a Studio June 30th 2012 for 58 TPU (to trade into)

If you deposited that same week you would get 56 TPU.

That seems pretty close.

-------------------

They are definitely some skewed areas.

But the OP is celebrating because she got 2 nice weeks in Orlando very reasonably. Don't rain on her parade. If she is happy, she is happy.

Don't hate the game because you are sitting on the sidelines.


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 22, 2011)

Transparency too will make people complain. And people complaining and deciding to pull out of RCI could improve the system, so in the long run it might improve RCI as well.

If many owners call up and complain that they cannot trade back into their own resorts, than RCI will consider changing the system and making it more "correct".  Maybe they won't, but now you have the choice of not depositing - it is your choice.


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## vckempson (Jul 22, 2011)

At first I hated the changes.  It opened my eyes to how bad my existing TS's were.  But... it gave me the necessary information to make decisions about repositioning my TS holdings.  After getting rid of the old and replacing them with much better options, the portfolio has lot's of TPU's at a very low cost.

So, after coming full circle, I'm now tickled pink.  Nothing but positives from me on the new system.  With a known and variable cost of goods, we can all make the decision as to how many TPU's any given week is worth to us.  Even a blue week owner can now make something worthwhile out of what they have.  Just look at the OP's original post, two weeks vacation for 11 TPU's.  There's something for everyone.  And ladybebop is going to Myrtle Beach in the summer for the first time in over 20 years.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

I don't know that people SHOULD be able to trade back into their resorts...If you paying $900 for you MF, but you can rent it publicly for $1200 easy every year...it seems to make perfect sense to me that your only getting 18 TPU but it costs 24 TPU to trade into


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

There are objective standards that are easy enough to use to see where RCI moved the goalposts, and one of the easiest is to see if your week will still trade into the weeks it did under the old system.  For many, their weeks do not, so that is objective evidence, not assumptions.

Another key one is that an honest system would give the same value to a week at the same point in time, whether it was a deposit or taken as an exchange.  RCI is all over the waterfront on that, with typically overbuilt areas and areas still in developer sales given more points for a deposit than they take to get an exchange, and others, mostly sold out independent resorts in the reverse situation.  Indeed the term ''sold out resort'' has a sinister double meaning in the corrupt world of RCI valuations.  Again, it is not at all assumptions but an objective standard - does RCI consistently charge more, less, or the same as it gives for a deposit for certain types of weeks?

Until RCI lifts the curtain on how they conjure up their numbers and reveals the data supporting them, then all the new system can be is semi-transparent, and sometimes that is worse than not being transparent at all.

Oh, and MF's have never had a darn thing to do with exchange value, nor does purchase price.

Arbitrarily set value numbers not based on real supply and demand factors smacks of the way values were set in the command economies of the old Soviet block.  




Ridewithme38 said:


> How are we to know what determining factor RCI uses to point Resorts? Maybe over populated areas are Supposed to have more points within their system?  Maybe places that have Low MF, but high demand have lower TPU's because they're cheaper to buy then exchange? There are hundreds of different little things they could have decided internally when it comes to pointing these resorts...The main thing is though...They decide the TPU values based on what THEY deem is the TPU value of those resorts...
> 
> Over pointing and Under pointing is just based on YOUR assumption, not everyones...If RCI set TPU's by how YOU felt about the resorts and area's....What would happen with those thousands who disagree with your opinion?
> 
> I like the new RCI System, NOT because i own at an overpointed Resort(Which i do) But because of the transparency and ability to trade above and below what you own...If i get 28 TPU's for my TS, i can clearly looking up what 28 TPU's gets....i can 2 places for 14 each or deposit another year and rent a place for 56 TPU or just trade for another 28 TPU resort


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

A Tugger also spotted and reported a VV@P week 52 that RCI was offering for exchange over a year out for 10 points lite while at the same time they were offering 50 points lite for a deposit.  There were also Manhattan Club weeks spotted and reported on TUG for winter weeks where RCI wanted 58-60 points lite to trade in but was only offering ~30+ for a deposit.

And while I often use London as an example because it is the hardest place in the world to trade into in timesharing, my own English summer weeks are not in London.

Also, I am far from sitting on the sidelines. I just set up another trade with DAE and put in another request with SFX.  I just have shifted my exchanging to play with companies that play fair.




DavidnJudy said:


> Royal Regency in paris is probably similar to what you have in London.
> 
> Someone spotted a 2 Bedroom July 6th 2013 for 54 TPU (to trade into)
> 
> ...


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## bnoble (Jul 22, 2011)

> Why does every thread have to become about this.


Because everyone needs a hobby, and complaining about RCI is Steve's.


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## Margariet (Jul 22, 2011)

bnoble said:


> Because everyone needs a hobby, and complaining about RCI is Steve's.



Carolinians hobby you mean?


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

DavidnJudy said:


> Why does every thread have to become about this. Yikes.



Because a few people just cannot take off their rose colored glasses when it comes to a certain exchange company.  Heck some of them have even been and still are supporters of RCI's rentals to the general public.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Because a few people just cannot take off their rose colored glasses when it comes to a certain exchange company.  Heck some of them have even been and still are supporters of RCI's rentals to the general public.



What else should they do with TS Weeks that don't get exchanged?


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## Margariet (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Because a few people just cannot take off their rose colored glasses when it comes to a certain exchange company.  Heck some of them have even been and still are supporters of RCI's rentals to the general public.



But you are always promoting DAE or SFX! You seem to like those but lots of us don't care for them. Me, for instance. consider them as useless but I don't fight against those companies. You seem to have a personal crucade against RCI. That's not good. You better use your energy in a positive way. You are capable of much more.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 22, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> What else should they do with TS Weeks that don't get exchanged?



Ride,
That was the slippery slope that RCI went down years ago. Consider that the cost to rent 100 leftovers TS is much heavier than renting 100 diamond jems TS - more inquiries, bigger advertising budget, more cancellations, more compliants and lost of repeat business all for LESS revenue. 

The cost of accepting a TS for exchange is the same - a line or two of database information. But that diamond jem TS exchange is worth much more money in rental income in the real world. But if you let the members have a enough time to find the diamond gem TS and pay the "all exchanges same fee", the exchange company makes less money than renting the diamond jem TS and leaving the leftovers just sitting as a line or two of database info. Eventually, some of those leftovers, are accepted as exchanges.

And if you are the RCI wizzard hiding behind the cloak, saying "we have all these great resorts which we accept deposits on BUT this was not your year to get a great exchange. And we have all these other weeks still available!".

And remember, a company executive gets paid on the revenue they bring in - so what started as rent off the leftovers became rent the good stuff - make more money.


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> ..Also, I am far from sitting on the sidelines. I just set up another trade with DAE and put in another request with SFX.  I just have shifted my exchanging to play with companies that play fair.



Sorry I meant you are on the sidelines as far as RCI is concerned. Which is fine with me, that means one less person in RCI who know how to work the RCI system, it is better for us who know how to work the system, one less person taking good weeks we want. Of course I think you like to vacation abroad where as I like to vacation in the US. So RCI probably makes more sense for me than you.  (Of course RCI makes no sense to you because you hate them for rentals and unfair TPU values, etc.. etc.. etc..)


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## Margariet (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Also, I am far from sitting on the sidelines. I just set up another trade with DAE and put in another request with SFX.  I just have shifted my exchanging to play with companies that play fair.



Are you affiliated with those companies?


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## tschwa2 (Jul 22, 2011)

data from English country side- currently available in June/July 2013 RCI
Resort Name           size unit        RCI charges  (RCI gives)
Trewince Manor  (#3943) 3bd        30-33          (34)
Perran View Holiday Village(#2529) 2bd 33         (31)
Kingswear Park Club  (#7760) 2bd       31          (33)
Clowance Estate (#2828) 1bd            28-29     (31)
Barnsdale Country Club(#2932) 1-3bd 30-37      (35-40)
The Osborne Club (#0210) 2bd           30           (39)

In all but one case RCI gave a few more points than it charges.  Are these areas all underpointed?  Maybe, but if you do a little research you can find out and deposit it elsewhere.


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## DavidnJudy (Jul 22, 2011)

I know where Carolinian stands and I respect him for it, but I am no longer engaging in responding to his posts and getting sucked into the black hole.  No offense.

Peace out.


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## Margariet (Jul 22, 2011)

DavidnJudy said:


> I know where Carolinian stands and I respect him for it, but I am no longer engaging in responding to his posts and getting sucked into the black hole.  No offense.
> 
> Peace out.



It seems such a waste of energy to be so hateful towards RCI like Carolinian is. What's his or her problem? Was C working for RCI and kicked out? Or is C an affiliate for DAE? Otherwise I don't get it. It's only timeshare and it's only exchange ...


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

Margariet said:


> It seems such a waste of energy to be so hateful towards RCI like Carolinian is. What's his or her problem? Was C working for RCI and kicked out? Or is C an affiliate for DAE? Otherwise I don't get it. It's only timeshare and it's only exchange ...



I think Caroline bought a whole bunch of what were once considered tiger traders and RCI has since realized that they were just hollow shells...Now caroline is mad at RCI because it caught on to her scam


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

tschwa2 said:


> data from English country side- currently available in June/July 2013 RCI
> Resort Name           size unit        RCI charges  (RCI gives)
> Trewince Manor  (#3943) 3bd        30-33          (34)
> Perran View Holiday Village(#2529) 2bd 33         (31)
> ...



I wonder what the MF's are on those vs. what they are renting for on the open market


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

Margariet said:


> It seems such a waste of energy to be so hateful towards RCI like Carolinian is. What's his or her problem? Was C working for RCI and kicked out? Or is C an affiliate for DAE? Otherwise I don't get it. It's only timeshare and it's only exchange ...



Actually, it is not being hateful, but being realistic.  My background is as a former HOA president, and I have watched as RCI has rolled out a series of policies, starting with renting exchange deposits to the general public, that have undermined both HOA's and members.  When RCI does something right, which they do occaisionally, I will give the devil its due, or if some policy actually helps members, like the benefits to members of cheap rentals over the total cost of exchanges, I will mention that (although overall, I opposed those rentals as they are hurting HOA's and members themselves in other ways)

We have always had people on TUG who wear rose colored glasses when it comes to RCI and try to defend everything they do.  Many, especially those on the sidelines, eventually come around.  Like the RCI rentals.  I was the first one on TUG (actually two versions of the TUG BBS back from the current one) who pointed out that RCI was planning to go into rentals to the public of spacebank inventory, and boy was I piled upon by the RCI cheerleaders over that one.  But eventually all but the real diehards admitted they were doing that and it was harmful to timesharing.  The long thread on the attempt to stop the backroom deal to settle the class action lawsuit against RCI shows that eventually most Tuggers got the message on that one.  Unfortunately, since that loss, some of the RCI sceptics here have not been posting as much or at least not on RCI topics.

My biggest concern over Points Lite is that it is going to lead to bail outs of off season owners who exchange, which will be financially quite harmful to HOA's.  When it comes to members, I have always acknowledges that when RCI moved the goalposts, it created winners and losers, and naturally those who were overpointed or otherwise gained would be expected to defend their windfall to the hilt on these boards, and they do!  The fact that some of them take it to the extreme that they want to silence anyone who does not agree with their ''politically correct'' position on RCI is something that I find to be rather arrogant.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 22, 2011)

Margariet said:


> Carolinians hobby you mean?



Carolinian is Steve.  Great guy, smart, and he doesn't appreciate that RCI devalues his resort.  Been there myself!  I know how it feels, but I love the new system and get double the Orlando off-season vacations with one lowly Colorado week.  It's been good for us.


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I think Caroline bought a whole bunch of what were once considered tiger traders and RCI has since realized that they were just hollow shells...Now caroline is mad at RCI because it caught on to her scam



First of all, even though I am originally from North Carolina, my name is not Caroline.

It is easy enough to see the supply and demand curve by looking at what inventory RCI typically has availible.  My English resort usually has no weeks availible any time of year, and certainly not in the summer.  That clearly supports its previous trading power.  On the other hand PP@V is a dime-a-dozen, and usually has as much inventory by itself as all 180+ resorts in South Africa combined.  That shows that the low values RCI requires to trade in are its accurate value, not the higher values RCI gives for deposits.  The other two weeks were medium traders, not tiger traders, but they were also downgraded.

One of the most significant points in learning about the integrity or lack thereof at RCI is that they promised that the change to Points Lite would not impact trade values, but clearly it has for many people.  To put it succinctly, RCI lied.  Just like RCI lied for many years about renting out exchange deposits to the general public.  Eventually with the class action lawsuit they admitted it.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> It is easy enough to see the supply and demand curve by looking at what inventory RCI typically has availible.  My English resort usually has no weeks availible any time of year, and certainly not in the summer.  That clearly supports its previous trading power.  On the other hand PP@V is a dime-a-dozen, and usually has as much inventory by itself as all 180+ resorts in South Africa combined.  That shows that the low values RCI requires to trade in are its accurate value, not the higher values RCI gives for deposits.  The other two weeks were medium traders, not tiger traders, but they were also downgraded.



Carol, when looking at supply and demand you can't just look at supply...you also have to look at demand...Sure your english resort has no weeks available...thats because they never really built anything of substance, there will never be any supply...one or two resorts are going to fill up quickly with the same fools that thought England was somewhere ANYONE would want to vacation, its all about creating a false demand curve...toy companies do this all the time, they'll only produce a limited number of items, and when they sell out, they will anounce that the product was in such demand that it sold out immediatly....Your english weeks aren't under ANY type of demand(who would want to vacation in England??)...they just have a very limited supply, heck with such a limited supply, if there is ANY online, that means there is NO, NONE, NADA Demand

where as a place like PP@V is in an actual HIGH DEMAND area, but because it has such a large supply it is able to meet that HUGE demand easily...same with most resorts in that area 

RCI takes much more then the VERY limited demand for England into account though...


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

So somebody got Orlando for the equivalent of a blue week.  Blue weeks from anywhere traded easily into Orlando under the old system.  The equivalent of a blue week easily trades into Orlando in the new system.  Big deal.  Orlando, which is obviously a place close to your heart, has been overbuilt for years, and will always be an easy trade.  The issue there is not the ease of trading in.  That is a given.  The issue is the excessive number of points lite RCI gifts to owners there who deposit.  That corrupts the system.

If we look at the staunch defenders of Points Lite here, the common denominator of most of them is that they own or have some other connection to Orlando or some other overbuilt area.  One feature of the new system is the gross overpointing of overbuilt areas.  I can see why people with interests there would be highly motivated to staunchly defend their windfall on these boards and indeed they do.

As to the number of people in the article, it quoted their opionions.  A larger sample would be great for a poll, but when you are quoting people for a magazine article, 27 is a larger number than one would normally expect in a magazine article.  As to whether or not the average timesharer likes this system or not, one group that is not well represented on TUG is the off seaons owners who own to exchange.  The reason for that is simple.  If they come here they learn it is better to own better weeks and they change their portfolio.  However, that is one group that is devastated by RCI's changes and it is the group that is the Achilles heal of timesharing.  If they bail in mass, they will be hard to replace, and that will cause m/f's to shoot up dramatically.  In talking to one resort manager on the OBX, she told me she had already been deluged with calls from off season and even shoulder season owners who wanted out of timesharing due to the new system, and she expected more because she thought that it had not yet clicked with many of them.  The rentals and the degrading of the 45 day window by RCI has made owning these time periods no longer cost effective for exchanging.  With the rentals, that is also arguably true even for own to use.  

I did a comparision once between some Orlando numbers from VV@)P and those in a wide variety of rare locations, none of which I own in, ranging for St. John in winter to Bermuda in summer to Charleston in summer to French Riviera in August and a number of others.  It was obscene how much VV@P was overpointed compared to rare areas.




DavidnJudy said:


> Margariet - Just forget about it, if any one is ever happy about the TPU and RCI, Carolinian will figure out a way to rain on their parade.
> 
> By the way 27 is too small a sample size to get an accurate picture. There are over 3 million subscribing members in RCI.  To have a plus or mius 5% confidence that his assertion is correct they would need to interview 384 people: http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm   They also would need to poll random RCI subscribers and not just people who have a subscription to Timesharing Today.  His sample size and sample group skew the results.  Now could those be correct results maybe but they could just as well be incorrect results - no way of telling with that sample croup.
> 
> ...


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> I did a comparision once between some Orlando numbers from VV@)P and those in a wide variety of rare locations, none of which I own in, ranging for St. John in winter to Bermuda in summer to Charleston in summer to French Riviera in August and a number of others.  It was obscene how much VV@P was overpointed compared to rare areas.



Small supply doesn't mean high demand


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

Again, Little Red Riding Hood, my name is not Carol.

England happens to be a very high demand tourist area, especially the southern part of the country.  You might want to check out tourism statistics.  Yes, Orlando has a lot of demand too, but it is awash in supply, and that destroys its supply / demand curve.  If you want to look at where there is a strong supply / demand curve in Florida, look to Sanibel / Caprtiva or the Keys.  The availibility charts published in the European version of the RCI directory showed that South Africa, for instance, has a much better timeshare supply / demand curve (i.e tougher to trade into) than Orlando.

As to demand for England, London is actually the hardest trade to get in the world.  When I was an HOA board member, I enjoyed access to RCI's VIP program, under which HOA board members and resort managers and some other resort employees could trade for anything that RCI had availible and all they had to give in exchange was a week of the same size and color code from anywhere; i.e. trading power did not apply.  There was only one place in the world where the VIP program would not let you trade into, and that was London, England.  You could trade into Paris, New York, San Francisco, Sanibel, St. John, Venice or anywhere except London.  The VIP specialist I talked to on that said that RCI had such a huge demand for London and such a low supply, if they let VIP membes trade in  then nobody but VIP members would end up getting that trade.  So London was made the only place in the world that was off limits for VIP trades.  That speaks volumes.



Ridewithme38 said:


> Carol, when looking at supply and demand you can't just look at supply...you also have to look at demand...Sure your english resort has no weeks available...thats because they never really built anything of substance, there will never be any supply...one or two resorts are going to fill up quickly with the same fools that thought England was somewhere ANYONE would want to vacation, its all about creating a false demand curve...toy companies do this all the time, they'll only produce a limited number of items, and when they sell out, they will anounce that the product was in such demand that it sold out immediatly....Your english weeks aren't under ANY type of demand(who would want to vacation in England??)...they just have a very limited supply, heck with such a limited supply, if there is ANY online, that means there is NO, NONE, NADA Demand
> 
> where as a place like PP@V is in an actual HIGH DEMAND area, but because it has such a large supply it is able to meet that HUGE demand easily...same with most resorts in that area
> 
> RCI takes much more then the VERY limited demand for England into account though...


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Small supply doesn't mean high demand



The key to any supply / demand curve is demand RELATIVE to supply.  You cannot look just at one in isolation.


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## tschwa2 (Jul 22, 2011)

I think most people realize RCI overpoints some resorts and underpoints others.  RCI rents exchanges.  RCI does other less than desirable things.  Despite all that, a bunch of us get our money's worth and even like the new system.  We know other exchange systems are available and use other systems along with RCI.  We still like RCI.  

Personally I think DAE sucks.  I couldn't find anything other than crappy blue weeks or nothing at any time of year in many of the areas I would be interested in going.  I gave it a week I think RCI undervalues at 24 but what DAE offered was what 1/10 of the inventory that RCI offers that RCI makes available for 5-10tpu's.  I get 10 tpu's for a blue beach week.  I can still get more value in RCI with it than I could with DAE.  Maybe DAE has better service in Europe because I certainly got service that was worse than RCI and II and I don't think they either of them gives particularly good service.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 22, 2011)

> Again, Little Red Riding Hood, my name is not Carol.


This is just too funny.  Ride doesn't read what others' post, apparently.  I like your nickname for Ride, though.  I think I should use it.


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> First of all, even though I am originally from North Carolina, my name is not Caroline.





Carolinian said:


> Again, Little Red Riding Hood, my name is not Carol.





vacationhopeful said:


> As stated by a PP in this thread, his name real name was disclosed ...



I'm running out of forms of your name ma'am...So *DISCLOSED*, all you've named for your supply/demand curve locations are places with almost NO supply...its hard to use those as a reference because the supply is so low, they'd be booked up anyway even with a low or very low demand, like i believe they have

Can you think of any places with a decend supply of timeshares that has a good supply/demand curve? or does your arguement hinge on places with 1 ts that gets filled with family and friends from around the neighborhood?


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 22, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I'm running out of forms of your name ....



Ride,
I respect Carolinian very much regarding timesharing, the N.C. beaches and ts resorts, his legal opinion on deeds and particular, his superior knowledge of Eastern Europe and Europe in general.

As stated by a PP in this thread, his name real name was disclosed ... 

Thank you, 
Linda


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## Ridewithme38 (Jul 22, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> As stated by a PP in this thread, his name real name was disclosed ...
> 
> Thank you,
> Linda



This is a long thread though! 

Edited, i'm going to change my previous post above this


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

Well, ma'am, where I am from does not have the slightest thing to do with my name.

Well, you have to remember that supply is one of the two factors involved in supply and demand.  Large supply is negative to the supply demand curve and low supply creates a stronger supply demand curve.  Of course demand also has to be there.  If you build a resort on a smallish man made lake with a history of poor water quality in the middle of nowhere in Franklin County, NC, like Carriage Manor at Lake Royale, the fact that there is not that much supply still does not give a very good supply / demand curve because there are few people who want to go there.

The avaibility charts in the European version of the RCI directory were a great way to look at RCI's own data on supply and demand as they were broken down by month and had four categories; 1) very high demand / low supply 2) high demand / low supply, 3) good availibility 4) very good availibility.  Areas with few timeshares tended to score very well, In Scandanavia, for example, Finland has a lot of timeshare, and is indeed overbuilt, and by my recollection (I several times posted a lot of this stuff on TUG but don;t have the book handy at the moment), Finland was mostly if not all 3s and 4s, while Norway which had only one of two timeshares had mostly 1s and 2s.  As to an area with lots of timeshares with a good supply / demand curve, South Africa with 180+ resorts was largely 1s and 2s and no 4s in any month.  Orlando had some 4s, more 3s than South Africa and fewer 1s or 2s.

Unfortunately, RCI is not keeping that info up.  The last time European members were due a directory of resorts, we got an email saying that to lessen their ''carbon footprint'' they were not printing a directory so we should go online for the online directory, but that info on the avaibility did not seem to be there any more.  The last printed directory they sent out had the tables moved from one convenient place in the front of the directory and instead spread them out in each section, plus they changed the wording a bit about what each level meant.



Ridewithme38 said:


> I'm running out of forms of your name ma'am...So Carolina, all you've named for your supply/demand curve locations are places with almost NO supply...its hard to use those as a reference because the supply is so low, they'd be booked up anyway even with a low or very low demand, like i believe they have
> 
> Can you think of any places with a decend supply of timeshares that has a good supply/demand curve? or does your arguement hinge on places with 1 ts that gets filled with family and friends from around the neighborhood?


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## sandkastle4966 (Jul 22, 2011)

blah, blah, blah ....once again completely down the rat hole with C.....

back to the ORIGINAL POSTER - you did good ! and I too am quite happy with what I can do...and as always,  I look forwards to useful tidbits on information on how to best USE RCI....because I am not going to get it changed.  IT IS A BUSINESS !  so lets leverage what there is.


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## Bourne (Jul 22, 2011)

Is it right or wrong, I don't know...I just use it in my favor..

RCI rates a 3* 1000 room inventory with 80% fulfillment rate higher that a 5* boutique 20 unit with 100% fulfillment rate. Why...it's pure maths....800*~200= 160,000 exchange revenue vs 20*200=4000. The difference is huge. To keep the gravy train moving, RCI attracts those 1000 weeks by giving away high TPUs...which provides another benefit...more tpu mean more exchanges. 

If you are on the wrong side of the equation, it's a case of sour grapes.


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## Bourne (Jul 22, 2011)

And RCI has always maintained that value is a factor of demand, supply and fulfillment rate. On tug, we have always ignored the last factor. The ones who did are making a killing in today's market.


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## tombo (Jul 22, 2011)

I had Carolinian on ignore for a while now and decided today to take him off of ignore to see if he had quit complaining about RCI. The answer is no. Every exchange company but RCI is great. Donita is great. He remembers the good old days and how RCI used to work. Well knowledge of how RCI used to work and the zero deposits he has made into RCI will get him exactly zero exchanges. He complains non stop but he doesn't quit RCI.  

I have no use for SFX or DAE. I never post about them. Why would I? There is no reason to since I feel like they are almost worthless for the places I want to exchange for. 

Carolinian loves DAE, SFX, DOnita, the old RCI but spends most of his time complaining about the new RCI weeks system. It is sooo sad.



Carolinian said:


> SoIf we look at the staunch defenders of Points Lite here, the common denominator of most of them is that they own or have some other connection to Orlando or some other overbuilt area.  One feature of the new system is the gross overpointing of overbuilt areas.  I can see why people with interests there would be highly motivated to staunchly defend their windfall on these boards and indeed they do.
> 
> .



I don't own a single week in Orlando. I get most of the trades I want. I don't own a 3 bed lock-off or any weeks with less than $15 per TPU cost. Look for another reason why myself and many other here without Orlando weeks like the new program. I like the transparency, knowing what a week will cost to exchange for, and what I will get when I deposit. If i don't like what RCI gives me for my week i don't have to deposit it. If I think they are charging too many TPU's to exchange for a week I don't have to exchange for it. I can combine weeks (TPU's) which I couldn't do before allowing weak deposits to get good exchanges. i can combine and extend the life of my depsoits. I like so much about the new weeks program and yet I don't own a single week at any resort Carolinian feels is "overpointed". Perhaps I like the new program because I actually learned how to use the new system from people here who are doing it with great success rather than sitting around and complaining and whining while making zero deposits and zero exchanges.



Carolinian said:


> We have always had people on TUG who wear rose colored glasses when it comes to RCI and try to defend everything they do.
> .



Myself and most everyone here on TUG but Carolinian like the new program for the most part. If we have rose colored glasses on, Carolinian must have on a blindfold because he can't see anything good about the new program!



Carolinian said:


> Also, I am far from sitting on the sidelines. I just set up another trade with DAE and put in another request with SFX.  I just have shifted my exchanging to play with companies that play fair.



When you brag on your independents that is a good thing to you. Most of us could care less about DAE and SFX. I have NEVER made an exchange with either and probably never will. I do not search the TUG threads for references to SFX and DAE to tell everyone how little inventory they have and how limited their locations and resort pools are. For example in June 2012 DAE has availability of 8 units and 5 of the 8 are at the same Colorado resort. The other 3 are Daytona beach, central texas, and Reno. Like I am going to deposit one of my weeks to get some of that crappy inventory. For June 2012 RCI has 9182 units available in virtually every state. DAE is useless for places I want to go and in no way a substitute for RCI.

Why do you feel that if we like RCI we are wrong, cheerleaders, benefitting from the screwing of others, etc, etc, etc, but you have no problem singing the praises of SFX and DAE.  Why are you not labelling yourself an independent cheerleader with rose colored glasses who refuses to acknowledge that DAE has almost zero inventory available right now worth exchanging for and SFX doesn't have a single oceanfront resort on the entire Florida panhandle. How many Disney exchanges can you make through SFX or DAE? Zero sound about right? How about those of us who want locations they don't offer? You just ignore those facts and brag on the small independents that will not work for MOST of us. When you like something you feel you are correct, when we like something you don't we are wrong. Well that is narcissism at it's finest. If you want to see a cheerleader look in the mirror and cheer go SFX, go DAE.

You like to ignore facts like the fact that some exchangers are getting screwed with the independents too. It is impossible for every trade to be exactly even with regards to supply and demand, season, week, unit size, resort, etc, etc, etc. For example when you give a London week to SFX that none of us wants to exchange for and you get a Hawaii week many of us would want, that is screwing the majority of TUGGERS. What you call fair I call a rip-off. I don't want any week in Europe anytime in the foreseeable future. I would much rather have availability in Orlando or Branson than London. Of course you only see things like you want to see them. 

You live in Europe, travel in Europe, love Europe. Most TUGGERS are timeshare owners in America, we travel in America, and we could care less about Europe resorts or availability. A great place to discuss the supply and demand of Europe is with the 5 or 6 Tuggers who frequent the Europe forum rather than with the majority of us for whom the demand for Europe is non existent.

It was really nice to read threads and discussions about RCI without the never ending complaints about overpointing, supply and demand values being skewed, the good old days when gasoline was 25 cents a gallon and when RCI valued London deposits, how it was before I joined TUG, and anything else you can think of to complain about regarding RCI. The only way to enjoy the threads in such a manner is to put you on ignore. I have tried it both ways and ignoring your anti RCI posts beats the heck out of reading them and debating them. JMHO


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## ampaholic (Jul 22, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> This is just too funny.  Ride doesn't read what others' post, apparently.  I like your nickname for Ride, though.  I think I should use it.



How about Hoodie for short? :hysterical:


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## ampaholic (Jul 22, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Ride,
> I respect Carolinian very much regarding timesharing, the N.C. beaches and ts resorts, his legal opinion on deeds and particular, his superior knowledge of Eastern Europe and Europe in general.
> 
> As stated by a PP in this thread, his name real name was disclosed ...
> ...



A voice of reason - yet the bickering continues, it's starting to sound like the Congress is discussing points lite again :rofl:


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## tombo (Jul 22, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Ride,
> I respect Carolinian very much regarding timesharing, the N.C. beaches and ts resorts, his legal opinion on deeds and particular, his superior knowledge of Eastern Europe and Europe in general.
> 
> As stated by a PP in this thread, his name real name was disclosed ...
> ...



When discussing NC beaches, Europe, and deeds Carolinian might indeed have helpful input. This thread is discussing none of those things.


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## Carolinian (Jul 22, 2011)

Bourne said:


> And RCI has always maintained that value is a factor of demand, supply and fulfillment rate. On tug, we have always ignored the last factor. The ones who did are making a killing in today's market.



A rate is a percentage and not a raw number.  Madge's discussions of ''utilization'' do not square with this Orwellian redefinition of ''utilization'' (for newbies, Madge was an official RCI rep who used to have a Board on TUG).

There is also another factor that disproves this theory and that is that all overbuilt areas with a glut of timeshare do not profit from it.  Some like the Canary Islands, get the low numbers they deserve.  The difference is that it is not RCI's formula that gives some overbuilt areas more points than they deserve, it is insider politicking by developers with RCI.  Having been aware of some of the insider dealing between Barrier Island Station and RCI over their RCI Points numbers, I am well aware of what goes on.

You also have it quite wrong on what moves trades for an exchange company.  It was pointed out for years that high demand weeks trading like for like drive a chain of exchanges which is far more profitable to an exchange company.  When you overpoint something you already have a glut of in the spacebank and therefore languishes there, it does NOT drive a chain of exchanges and is therefore less profitable to an exchange company.

The factor that RCI does seem to look at with these overbuilt areas is not exchanges but new memberships, and thus one of the keys to the priveleged overpointed is that the developer at the resort is still selling, bringing in new memberships.  In the world of RCI published valuations, the term ''sold out resort'' has a sinister double meaning.  But all resorts will eventually be sold out, and then their gifted undeserved extra points will be very much at risk.

If RCI's policies over time, for whatever reason, become perceived to favor the overbuilt over the rare, then the rare will move elsewhere and you simply will not get them in RCI.  When RCI Points came in, for example it drove several timeshare chains to bail out to II.  Even independents have benefitted, like Sloane Garden Court in London dumping RCI in order to make SFX its principle exchange provider.  Eventually as people wake up, it will be SFX which gets the last laugh from RCI's foolish policies of favoring the overbuilt over the rare.


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## Bourne (Jul 23, 2011)

I know who Madge was...I go back a long time...

But the rci of today is not the rci of yesteryears...even in exchanging I have seen many things getting hot and cooling down...

Move on...this rci bashing is sounding like a broken record now. Nothing is perfect...you will always cling to straws when any adverse argument is presented. And everytime I give a reasonable answer that cannot be refuted in a sane logical discussion, out comes Madge. 

I miss perrym...atleast he played fair.


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## tombo (Jul 23, 2011)

Bourne said:


> I know who Madge was...I go back a long time...
> 
> But the rci of today is not the rci of yesteryears...even in exchanging I have seen many things getting hot and cooling down...
> 
> ...



Don't forget bootleg who was to RCI what deep throat was to Watergate. 

Don't forget that you have only been a member since 2005, so your knowledge is limited.

Don't forget that you are a member with less than 600 posts but that Carolinian is a perpetual GUEST with over 7600 posts (probably 7500 of them were bashing RCI).

Don't forget that Carolinian bought his first timeshare at Stonehenge when it was under construction.

Don't forget that bragging on SFX and DAE is enlightened thinking while bragging on RCI is being an ignorant, uniformed, uneducated RCI cheerleader with rose colored glasses on.

Don't forget that you DON'T understand supply and demand.

Don't forget that the 2 hardest to get exchanges in the world are the OBX and London.

Don't forget that the great exchanges you have gotten using RCI are not actually good exchanges. The RCI exchanges are skewed and "unfair". Only exchanges through SFX and DAE are "fair" exchanges.

Don't forget to put Carolinian on IGNORE so you don't have to listen to any more of his repetitive anti RCI bias.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 23, 2011)

*You Mean, Even If I Like'm, They Actually Suck Canal Water ?*




tombo said:


> Don't forget that the great exchanges you have gotten using RCI are not actually good exchanges. The RCI exchanges are skewed and "unfair". Only exchanges through SFX and DAE are "fair" exchanges.


So even if the trade bait I used was a timeshare I don't care to go to, & even if the exchange week I got was for a nice resort in a location I liked at just the perfect time I wanted to go, that even then I still got a bad exchange? 

Shux, if I had known that at the time then I could have gone around in a mopy funk of disappointment instead of enjoying myself on a really nice timeshare vacation experience. 

Live & learn, eh ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## chriskre (Jul 23, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> I did a comparision once between some Orlando numbers from VV@)P and those in a wide variety of rare locations, none of which I own in, ranging for St. John in winter to Bermuda in summer to Charleston in summer to French Riviera in August and a number of others.  It was obscene how much VV@P was overpointed compared to rare areas.



Let's see, in my life I've been to St. John once (on a cruise), never to Bermuda, Charleston once and the French Riviera twice.  Might as well add London in there too cause I've been there 5 times.  I'd consider myself a very well traveled person but yet.............

Guess how many times I've been to Orlando.  I don't even know anymore cause it's way more than 100 times in my lifetime so far.  

Guess where my most demanded vacations would be in RCI and in II and even DAE for that matter?  Yup, that nasty little swamp in the middle of the state with an ugly Mouse, stealing all my money in his well built Mousetrap.  
Yes I've even used the $79 DAE deals to go to the dreaded big bad Mousetrap.  :ignore: 



Ridewithme38 said:


> Small supply doesn't mean high demand



See above.  Finally I agree with you.   



AwayWeGo said:


> Shux, if I had known that at the time then I could have gone around in a mopy funk of disappointment instead of enjoying myself on a really nice timeshare vacation experience.
> 
> Live & learn, eh ?



Don't worry Allen, RCI's gonna still keep the light on at VVP for us so keep that dinky points ownership.  I know I'm not giving mine up yet either.   

It sure beats Motel 6 in Kissimmee.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 23, 2011)

*Motel 6 & Super 8 Aren't All That Bad.  (Comparatively Speaking.)*




chriskre said:


> It sure beats Motel 6 in Kissimmee.


The 1 to shun is Day's Inn, over by the convention center.  

( There's a reason it rates only 1 star on PriceLine Dot Com. )

_Full Disclosure*:*_  We actually stayed overnight at that dump.  Twice.  When our flights arrived 1 night before our resort reservations started, we put in 1-star PriceLine bids.  After getting stuck at Day's Inn that 1st time, we figured it's such a large area with lots & lots of hotels that chances were slim we'd get stuck at the same dump a 2nd time.  Wrong.  Around here, live & learn is an operative principle.  Therefore, we thenceforth never bid lower than 2 stars on PriceLine. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## goofygirl17 (Jul 23, 2011)

Wow- I didn't expect this whole debate!  I'm just excited that I got 2 nice weeks in Orlando at the last minute and still have TPU left over  

I have to admit I was frustrated when RCI first switched over to TPU.  We've stayed at DVC twice through a swap- once a studio at SSR and this past April in a 1BR at OKW.  When they first changed to TPU I realized I couldn't trade into DVC anymore without combining points which I think is a waste of money and points plus the extra fee.  Now I have some consolation in that I can stay for 2 weeks offsite and still have points left over for another vacation.

I don't know all the ins and outs of RCI and trading (that's why I come here  ).  We bought our timeshare without ever seeing the unit because we knew we'd never stay there.  We wanted a red week, sleeps 6 and that's what we bought.  It's a local resort and we use the pool summer and winter.  I figure our maintenance fees (@ $700) are worth it just to use the facilities regularly.  I like the fact that I can use that unit to get multiple vacations.  Right now we enjoy Disney and are getting multiple trips per year using our one week unit.  Pretty good deal for us.  I don't know if our resort is over or under valued but it works.

Okay... let the debate continue...


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 23, 2011)

> Wow- I didn't expect this whole debate! I'm just excited that I got 2 nice weeks in Orlando at the last minute and still have TPU left over



There are great resorts in Orlando.  It was smart of RCI and DVC to set the values higher for DVC, so everyone wouldn't "see" the inventory.  Most people with average deposits do not 

Back when DVC was with RCI, before it was with II, I saw a few studios online in RCI.  I couldn't see anything else with prime Colorado weeks.  I didn't know what I was missing, because my weeks limited what I could see.  We would never take a studio over the other offerings.  Rick likes having a nice big bathtub, preferably with jets, for his back. 

Now I have a choice: do I want to pay the high price of DVC to experience the "magic" of staying on property? Or do I care enough about the magic to pay so much more over the cost of the other great resorts nearby?  

With our grown kids and grandkids, we definitely want that magic and will pay to get it, two separate units, two weeks for November, so four total units, just to stay on property.  I am excited to have the choice.  But when our trips are just us, we won't bother with the DVC, because the magic isn't worth the cost.  It averages out just fine.  

We saw Cypress Palms and thought it was really nice. I would take an exchange there, into a larger 1 bedroom.


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## chriskre (Jul 23, 2011)

goofygirl17 said:


> Wow- I didn't expect this whole debate!  I'm just excited that I got 2 nice weeks in Orlando at the last minute and still have TPU left over
> 
> Pretty good deal for us.  I don't know if our resort is over or under valued but it works.
> 
> Okay... let the debate continue...



Glad we didn't scare you off goofygirl.   

I think you did fine just like RCI designed it to be in Orlando.  They obviously are giving Orlandophiles a bone or two, but why not?  It's a way that they can save face.  Not that it's an issue for me, I'm pretty happy so far with RCI once I learned how to work the website thanks to my fellow TUGgers.   I for one plan on exploiting it as much as I can and I'm sure they're just fine with me trading my 20 TPU week for 4 weeks of mousetime.

You were smart to buy at a resort that you can use the day privileges.  I own one of those too and it's great.  It's also nice that when you exchange back into your home resort the staff will usually upgrade you for free if they know you well.   

And don't worry about this debate continuing.  Once it get started well let's just say, it's like............:deadhorse:


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## timeos2 (Jul 23, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> A rate is a percentage and not a raw number.  Madge's discussions of ''utilization'' do not square with this Orwellian redefinition of ''utilization'' (for newbies, Madge was an official RCI rep who used to have a Board on TUG).
> 
> There is also another factor that disproves this theory and that is that all overbuilt areas with a glut of timeshare do not profit from it.  Some like the Canary Islands, get the low numbers they deserve.  The difference is that it is not RCI's formula that gives some overbuilt areas more points than they deserve, it is insider politicking by developers with RCI.  Having been aware of some of the insider dealing between Barrier Island Station and RCI over their RCI Points numbers, I am well aware of what goes on.
> 
> RCI's policies over time, for whatever reason, become perceived to favor the overbuilt over the rare, then the rare will move elsewhere and you simply will not get them in RCI.  When RCI Points came in, for example it drove several timeshare chains to bail out to II.  Even independents have benefitted, like Sloane Garden Court in London dumping RCI in order to make SFX its principle exchange provider.  Eventually as people wake up, it will be SFX which gets the last laugh from RCI's foolish policies of favoring the overbuilt over the rare.



As we should all know by now RCI wants to make money & its there for the taking when talking about high volume, high demand areas that turn over quickly - the same areas some love to call overbuilt. For every minute time someone looks for Outer Banks or London 100 or more are trying for Orlando or Vegas. They go where the action & thus dollars are not some twice a month, short season area that they'd go broke depending on.  

As for how its done it's now open for all to see. A great value & improvement over the backroom hidden days. Most like it some that benefitted from the hidden factor don't - so don't use them! At least they aren't charging $9000+ for some scam sounding system like some have done recently. Go play there if you like the old school.


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## Bourne (Jul 23, 2011)

Way back before 2005...enough to get impacted by the date reset issue many old timers are touchy about...

2000 to be exact...bought a hgvc seaworld and was researching online and stumbled on this forum. Lurked for years..

That aside, my apologies to the op for hijacking this thread with needless banter. Happy that things worked out for you with the new system.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 23, 2011)

*That's About The Size Of It.*




timeos2 said:


> As we should all know by now RCI wants to make money & its there for the taking when talking about high volume, high demand areas that turn over quickly - the same areas some love to call overbuilt. For every minute time someone looks for Outer Banks or London 100 or more are trying for Orlando or Vegas. They go where the action & thus dollars are not some twice a month, short season area that they'd go broke depending on.
> 
> As for how its done it's now open for all to see. A great value & improvement over the backroom hidden days. Most like it some that benefitted from the hidden factor don't - so don't use them!


That hits the nail right on the head. 

Rose-colored glasses are not needed to see that Orlando is the world timeshare capital.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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