# Bought DC points at sales presentation Pulse San Fran.



## frank808 (Aug 2, 2019)

Hi there everyone.  Just returned from our summer vacation trip.  I was lucky to get an exchange for the new Marriott Pulse in San Fran this past week.  On side note, sorry to not responding to the others that wanted the extra nights I did not need.  It was taken within minutes of me posting the free nights.  I was on vacation and not really bothering with internet.

Got a call to do a 90min presentation for $150 Amex gift card while at the Pulse.  Asked wife and she agreed which surprised me.  Called the body snatcher back and set up a 930 appointment for Wed July 30.  Figure would be like the last presentation 4 years ago and they would let us go after seeing our resale portfolio of non eligble weels.  

Went down and was asked to fill out the standard questionnaire to I figure give the salesperson something to sell us.  Saleswoman introduced herself 5 min later and said that she would be doing our presentation.  Went to her office and she looked over our questionnaire and said how we could do many things with the new DC points system.  She told some half truths and out right lies and I had to bite my tongue to not correct her as this would only make the presentation longer.  What was funny was she did not have paperwork on what we owned with marriott. She finally asked what we would like to purchase at the cheap price of $14.36 per point (or there abouts).  Told her we had no use for points as we owned 42 weeks with marriott.  She was shocked and excused herself from the room.

5 minutes later a gentleman came in with a printout that listed all our MVC weeks.  He also brought a paper saying that if we bought 5500 DC points he would let us enroll 7 weeks into the points program.  I said not interested as I am happy with our weeks ownership and 97% trading via II.  He then asked what would get to buy DC points.  I replied that I would buy 5000 points if they would enroll my 38 non eligible weeks into the points program.  He said he would ask but he didnt think it was possible.  Came back 10 minutes later and asked if I bought the Grand Residence units from thier authorized resalers.  I said yes and he told me that I could buy 5000 points and pay $5k to enroll one quartershare (13 weeks).  The offer he presented is the standard enrollment for grand residence quarter share owners that bought after the cutoff.  I said no thanks and thought I would be on my way.  I countered that I would do it if he would enroll both quartershares (26 weeks) and 7 of my non eligible weeks.  To make a long story short, I was able to enroll two quartershares at grand residence (26 weeks) and two units into the dc points program for a purchase of 5000 dc points.  There is no language saying that if I sold the dc points the weeks would be unenrolled in the program.  Now I can also enroll my 2 eligible weeks also into the program.  This would save me about $6k a year in exchange and lock off fees.  I figure it would take 14 years in exchange and lock off fee savings to recoup the $58k purchase if I keep the 5000 dc points. In my calculations, I took into account the 3% interest I would get if I kept the $58k in savings.   

Now I ask the knowledgeable tug community for your opinions on this.  I am still within my rescission period so would like to know your thoughts.  I have only bought resale for our MVC and HGVC units (thanks to finding TUG over a decade ago before buying our first timeshare).  Have only bought direct from DVC and am happy with that purchase.  The purchase is not a hardship on our finances.  Also have been staying at MKO 38+ weeks a year for the past 4/5 years and will continue to do so hopefully.  So those exchange fees are a real expense for us.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading.  Sorry for the long winded post.


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## kds4 (Aug 2, 2019)

Wow. I have no idea, but I think we just found the first owner to qualify for whatever new level above Chairman's Club they come up with. Based on the number of accessible points you must now have access to, maybe they'll follow the United Airlines model and you'll be MVC's first '1K' owner.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 2, 2019)

Not sure. You said at one point you liked your weeks, but then you purchased to enroll. Which is it? I guess later you mention tradeoff being lower exchange fees.

I don't see why they would care if you sold those points. They got the sale. If you sell for $4/pt, now your cost is 38k which is 9 years to get your money back. Assuming you are not very old, seems like a good deal to me.


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## Fasttr (Aug 2, 2019)

Wait... aren’t we always supposed to recommend to rescind.


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## StevenTing (Aug 2, 2019)

I think you know what you are doing.  If I was in your situation.  I would have done the same.  However I would have pushed for more weeks.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 2, 2019)

Fasttr said:


> Wait... aren’t we always supposed to recommend to rescind.



Maybe so according to everyone else, but I disagreed so I am allowed.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 2, 2019)

I'm just dying to know how many total enrolled points you have with this...


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 2, 2019)

Yeah, I asked in another thread if there is a chart showing the different grand residence unit sizes and how many elected points you get for studio, 1br, whatever sizes they have.


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## CPNY (Aug 2, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I'm just dying to know how many total enrolled points you have with this...


Geez, I feel tiny looking at buying a week here and there lol. It seems like this person is doing retirement right! That’s how I’d want to be spending my time. Timesharing for almost the whole year. Stay with family for holiday weeks then back on the travel road. I can only imagine the amount of points. In other news, I called MVC sales today and they were looking for Aruba weeks for me. They told me that only Aruba resales would come enrolled. Is that true? I was under the impression it was am marriott intl weeks, not only Aruba.


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## CPNY (Aug 2, 2019)

frank808 said:


> Hi there everyone.  Just returned from our summer vacation trip.  I was lucky to get an exchange for the new Marriott Pulse in San Fran this past week.  On side note, sorry to not responding to the others that wanted the extra nights I did not need.  It was taken within minutes of me posting the free nights.  I was on vacation and not really bothering with internet.
> 
> Got a call to do a 90min presentation for $150 Amex gift card while at the Pulse.  Asked wife and she agreed which surprised me.  Called the body snatcher back and set up a 930 appointment for Wed July 30.  Figure would be like the last presentation 4 years ago and they would let us go after seeing our resale portfolio of non eligble weels.
> 
> ...


I’d push for more unenrolled weeks to be enrolled. How many points in total are your enrolled weeks worth combined?


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 2, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Geez, I feel tiny looking at buying a week here and there lol. It seems like this person is doing retirement right! That’s how I’d want to be spending my time. Timesharing for almost the whole year. Stay with family for holiday weeks then back on the travel road. I can only imagine the amount of points. In other news, I called MVC sales today and they were looking for Aruba weeks for me. They told me that only Aruba resales would come enrolled. Is that true? I was under the impression it was am marriott intl weeks, not only Aruba.



It is not true. Spain, for example, comes enrolled too.


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## CPNY (Aug 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> It is not true. Spain, for example, comes enrolled too.


The sales rep said only Aruba (I figured since I led with I want Aruba) lol. He said Thailand you cannot buy resale you have to buy there and the way Spain is set up it does not come enrolled when buying through them. Luckily I recorded the conversation over the phone.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 2, 2019)

CPNY said:


> The sales rep said only Aruba (I figured since I led with I want Aruba) lol. He said Thailand you cannot buy resale you have to buy there and the way Spain is set up it does not come enrolled when buying through them. Luckily I recorded the conversation over the phone.



Since I bought a developer Spain week, I know it came enrolled. Usual sales stuff! In fact, you don't even have to go to Spain to buy.


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## CPNY (Aug 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Since I bought a developer Spain week, I know it came enrolled. Usual sales stuff! In fact, you don't even have to go to Spain to buy.


The rep didnt say I had to go to Spain to buy but he did. Say I would have to go to Thailand to buy the TS at that resort. But he did say only a resale week purchased through them at Aruba would come enrolled. No US weeks come enrolled and no Spain or other Caribbean weeks come enrolled


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## csalter2 (Aug 2, 2019)

If you buy Aruba and a resale week direct from Marriott both weeks can be enrolled. I did that.


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## frank808 (Aug 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Not sure. You said at one point you liked your weeks, but then you purchased to enroll. Which is it? I guess later you mention tradeoff being lower exchange fees.
> 
> I don't see why they would care if you sold those points. They got the sale. If you sell for $4/pt, now your cost is 38k which is 9 years to get your money back. Assuming you are not very old, seems like a good deal to me.


I love using weeks.  Purchase was mainly to save on the trade and lock off fees. I am in my late 40's so hope to have at least another 20-30 years use of these weeks.  My son at the age of 13 is learning how to use these MVC, HGVC and DVC points and the enrolled weeks will pass onto him if he wants it.  So this could potentially save the next generation some money.



StevenTing said:


> I think you know what you are doing.  If I was in your situation.  I would have done the same.  However I would have pushed for more weeks.


Thanks, I am pretty sure of my purchase but wanted to get some opinions from the TUG community that have no emotion in purchase.  I tried to get more weeks enrolled with this bundle.  My basis was knowing that it would have cost me 10000 DC point purchase to enroll both quarter shares.  



JIMinNC said:


> I'm just dying to know how many total enrolled points you have with this...


The MGR 1br quarter share converts to about 31-35k DC points.  Quarter share 2br gets about 50-53k DC points.  While a 3br gets you 60-72k DC points.  This is if you convert all 13 weeks to DC points.  The variations in point conversions changes every year as you will get the prime weeks every 4 years.

The willowridge, grand vista and harbour lake weeks that I own are definitely not worth converting to DC points as they get under 3k points per week.  Much more valuable to me as traders with II.  I did enroll my grand chateau and a grand vista week as they convert to the most points but much more valuable as traders.


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## CPNY (Aug 2, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> If you buy Aruba and a resale week direct from Marriott both weeks can be enrolled. I did that.


Aruba and a resale week? Do you mean a resale week in another resort along with Aruba?


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## frank808 (Aug 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Yeah, I asked in another thread if there is a chart showing the different grand residence unit sizes and how many elected points you get for studio, 1br, whatever sizes they have.


I have the chart for this year.  If you want, I can email it to you.  It lists the points for the different quarters and from studio to 3 br units.  Has charts for the 3 and 5 week interval conversions also.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 2, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Geez, I feel tiny looking at buying a week here and there lol. It seems like this person is doing retirement right! That’s how I’d want to be spending my time. Timesharing for almost the whole year. Stay with family for holiday weeks then back on the travel road. I can only imagine the amount of points. In other news, I called MVC sales today and they were looking for Aruba weeks for me. They told me that only Aruba resales would come enrolled. Is that true? I was under the impression it was am marriott intl weeks, not only Aruba.



I'm not sure if US central sales can sell the Spain weeks; those may have to be bought on site there. US central sales definitely can and do sell Aruba. Not sure if they can do St Kitts. Some of those international weeks may only be sold at the sales offices at those locations. I have no idea about the Asia locations, as those are technically part of the Asia/Pacific Destination Club, so they may only be salable over there.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 2, 2019)

A friend of mine bought Spain without leaving the US. Merely communicated with a Spain salesman.


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## TXTortoise (Aug 2, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Aruba and a resale week? Do you mean a resale week in another resort along with Aruba?



Yes

Aruba, St. Kitts and Spain weeks are the point purchase component in a hybrid deal, bundled with the best high point/low MF resort week you can find.


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## csalter2 (Aug 2, 2019)

I bought a resale week directly from Marriott and an Aruba week directly from Marriott. It was like a hybrid but my Aruba week functioned like a points purchase. Marriott had both weeks enrolled. They allow St. Kitts, Aruba Surf and Spain weeks  act as points purchases. There have been a couple of weeks owners here who have enrolled 7+ resale weeks with an Aruba purchase. They had already purchased those weeks resale from a third party. I purchased my resale from Marriott.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> A friend of mine bought Spain without leaving the US. Merely communicated with a Spain salesman.



So that may explain what CPNY was told...Central MVC Sales can sell Aruba weeks, but if you want to buy Spain or Asia, you have to work through those sales offices, either on site or via email/phone. Not sure where St Kitts fits in the mix.


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## CPNY (Aug 2, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I'm not sure if US central sales can sell the Spain weeks; those may have to be bought on site there. US central sales definitely can and do sell Aruba. Not sure if they can do St Kitts. Some of those international weeks may only be sold at the sales offices at those locations. I have no idea about the Asia locations, as those are technically part of the Asia/Pacific Destination Club, so they may only be salable over there.


That seems to be what was communicated as far as buying in Asia. When I asked about Spain he said even if I bought it wouldn’t come enrolled. 


Steve Fatula said:


> A friend of mine bought Spain without leaving the US. Merely communicated with a Spain salesman.


It seems this is what @JIMinNC was saying. Central sales can’t sell Spain and that’s why your friend had to speak to a rep in Spain. But the story of it not coming enrolled doesn’t make sense if your friends week come enrolled. Is that the case or did I assume that?


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 3, 2019)

Spain weeks come enrolled, not doubt about it. If you are interested, send pm.


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## CPNY (Aug 3, 2019)

TXTortoise said:


> Yes
> 
> Aruba, St. Kitts and Spain weeks are the point purchase component in a hybrid deal, bundled with the best high point/low MF resort week you can find.


That’s for a hybrid deal with purchasing points in addition to a week purchase. I can also purchase an enrolled Aruba week without a points purchase correct? 



csalter2 said:


> I bought a resale week directly from Marriott and an Aruba week directly from Marriott. It was like a hybrid but my Aruba week functioned like a points purchase. Marriott had both weeks enrolled. They allow St. Kitts, Aruba Surf and Spain weeks  act as points purchases. There have been a couple of weeks owners here who have enrolled 7+ resale weeks with an Aruba purchase. They had already purchased those weeks resale from a third party. I purchased my resale from Marriott.



So would you recommend picking up resale weeks first THEN pick up a resale week through MVC and enroll the resale weeks purchase if/when they offer an enrollment promo?


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## mjm1 (Aug 3, 2019)

frank808 said:


> Hi there everyone.  Just returned from our summer vacation trip.  I was lucky to get an exchange for the new Marriott Pulse in San Fran this past week.  On side note, sorry to not responding to the others that wanted the extra nights I did not need.  It was taken within minutes of me posting the free nights.  I was on vacation and not really bothering with internet.
> 
> Got a call to do a 90min presentation for $150 Amex gift card while at the Pulse.  Asked wife and she agreed which surprised me.  Called the body snatcher back and set up a 930 appointment for Wed July 30.  Figure would be like the last presentation 4 years ago and they would let us go after seeing our resale portfolio of non eligble weels.
> 
> ...



Frank, I know you have been thinking about this for a long time. They didn’t give you everything you wanted, but it sounds pretty good. Given your long term plans it sounds like a good deal. Enjoy.

Best regards.

Mike


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## hangloose (Aug 3, 2019)

Clearly well thought out by you and positioned properly by Marriott.  If the financials aren't a burden, I'd say the value is well worth enabling your enrollment of what is a very large chunk of your portfolio.  That enables a lot of opportunity via DC Pts in future....and as you indicated, does save on fees.   Kudos to you for pushing back on Marriott and getting some of what you wanted, even if not all.

I would also love to see the chart you have for Marriott Grand Residence quarter shares.   Appears you and GoldenVIKE have found ways to use that to your advantage for a very large scale enrolled DC Pts option.    I'm intrigued by this and need to learn more on it.


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## csalter2 (Aug 3, 2019)

CPNY said:


> That’s for a hybrid deal with purchasing points in addition to a week purchase. I can also purchase an enrolled Aruba week without a points purchase correct?
> 
> 
> 
> So would you recommend picking up resale weeks first THEN pick up a resale week through MVC and enroll the resale weeks purchase if/when they offer an enrollment promo?



I would say buy a resales week(s} and then buy one of those Aruba, St. Kitts or Spain weeks or even points. I like the weeks because high value points weeks have a lower maintenance fee per point. My two weeks of points are .395 this year.

Also, those Aruba, St. Kitts and Spain weeks cannot be placed in the trust. That’s why they still sell them as weeks. Also those properties are RTU’s right to use, not deeded weeks.

I would caution about the purchase because I hear Marriott may be stopping hybrid deals and although they have offered these specials over the past several years,  they could discontinue them. Just an FYI.i heard about the hybrid discontinuing from a salesman this weekend as he was unsuccessfully trying to sell me more.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 3, 2019)

CPNY said:


> That’s for a hybrid deal with purchasing points in addition to a week purchase. I can also purchase an enrolled Aruba week without a points purchase correct?
> 
> So would you recommend picking up resale weeks first THEN pick up a resale week through MVC and enroll the resale weeks purchase if/when they offer an enrollment promo?



There are several different transactions that can be structured with MVC Sales:

1) Buy an Aruba (or Spain, maybe St Kitts) week from Marriott Central Sales (or International office). That week comes enrolled and can be elected for points. If the week is worth 3750 points, that is your points available to elect.
2) Do the same as in #1, but then also buy another U.S. resale week from Marriott at the same time, and both weeks will be enrolled. So, lets say you bought the 3750 Aruba week in #1, and also bought a Gold OF resale at Hilton Head Grande Ocean worth 3850 points; both come enrolled and you have 7600 points.
3) Buy the same Gold Grande Ocean week in #2 worth 3850 from Marriott Sales (or any other US resale week they have), but also buy at least 3000 Trust points from them within 12 months (they might require you to buy at least 4000 to match the point value of Grande Ocean - I've seen it done both ways - sometimes they require matching points other times 3000 is enough). By buying the points, the Grande Ocean week becomes enrolled, and you have 6850 points (or 7850 if you have to buy 4000).
4) If you already own unenrolled resale weeks bought after June 2010, from time-to-time they will offer promos to enroll them by buying Trust points - 3000 points to enroll 1 week, 4000 to enroll 2, or 5500 to enroll 7.

Items 1, 2, 3 are offered all the time; #4 only at certain times. Which to do? You have to look at the numbers and see which generates the best cost per point. Each deal is different.


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## CPNY (Aug 3, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> I would say buy a resales week(s} and then buy one of those Aruba, St. Kitts or Spain weeks or even points. I like the weeks because high value points weeks have a lower maintenance fee per point. My two weeks of points are .395 this year.
> 
> Also, those Aruba, St. Kitts and Spain weeks cannot be placed in the trust. That’s why they still sell them as weeks. Also those properties are RTU’s right to use, not deeded weeks.
> 
> I would caution about the purchase because I hear Marriott may be stopping hybrid deals and although they have offered these specials over the past several years,  they could discontinue them. Just an FYI.i heard about the hybrid discontinuing from a salesman this weekend as he was unsuccessfully trying to sell me more.


The sales rep today when I inquired about hybrid said it’s a great way to “buy in” its all so confusing.


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## CPNY (Aug 3, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> There are several different transactions that can be structured with MVC Sales:
> 
> 1) Buy an Aruba (or Spain, maybe St Kitts) week from Marriott Central Sales (or International office). That week comes enrolled and can be elected for points. If the week is worth 3750 points, that is your points available to elect.
> 2) Do the same as in #1, but then also buy another U.S. resale week from Marriott at the same time, and both weeks will be enrolled. So, lets say you bought the 3750 Aruba week in #1, and also bought a Gold OF resale at Hilton Head Grande Ocean worth 3850 points; both come enrolled and you have 7600 points.
> ...


That helps a lot actually. Thank you. Naturally, I’m looking for the best deal with lowest annual fee. It’s either an MVC or switch gears and go HGVC. Although I’d prefer the locations available through MVC.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 3, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> I would caution about the purchase because I hear Marriott may be stopping hybrid deals and although they have offered these specials over the past several years,  they could discontinue them. Just an FYI.i heard about the hybrid discontinuing from a salesman this weekend as he was unsuccessfully trying to sell me more.





CPNY said:


> The sales rep today when I inquired about hybrid said it’s a great way to “buy in” its all so confusing.



People have been reporting on TUG for years that some sales reps use the "Hybrids are going away soon" pitch. So far, it hasn't happened; although as they say, "past performance is no guarantee of future results."


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 3, 2019)

They used the hybrids are going away this past Monday here at Summit Watch.


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## frank808 (Aug 3, 2019)

CPNY said:


> I’d push for more unenrolled weeks to be enrolled. How many points in total are your enrolled weeks worth combined?


Grand residence about 62k points on the low end plus about 5500 points for 2 enrolled weeks and another 3600 for the eligible Willowridge units equals about 71k electable points and the 5k trust points makes it around 76k DC points.  

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 3, 2019)

If you rented half of those at 60 cents, you'd have $22k towards MF. Probably funding all of it.


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## scpoidog (Aug 3, 2019)

While not perfect, this is probably as good an offer as you'll get as I know you've been trying to do this for a while.  As you're a master at trading, giving up that many weeks that you can split up and retrade shouldn't impact your "residence" at MKO.  Enjoy your options!


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## frank808 (Aug 3, 2019)

hangloose said:


> Clearly well thought out by you and positioned properly by Marriott.  If the financials aren't a burden, I'd say the value is well worth enabling your enrollment of what is a very large chunk of your portfolio.  That enables a lot of opportunity via DC Pts in future....and as you indicated, does save on fees.   Kudos to you for pushing back on Marriott and getting some of what you wanted, even if not all.
> 
> I would also love to see the chart you have for Marriott Grand Residence quarter shares.   Appears you and GoldenVIKE have found ways to use that to your advantage for a very large scale enrolled DC Pts option.    I'm intrigued by this and need to learn more on it.


Pm me your email and i will forward the 2019 chart.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## frank808 (Aug 3, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> There are several different transactions that can be structured with MVC Sales:
> 
> 4) If you already own unenrolled resale weeks bought after June 2010, from time-to-time they will offer promos to enroll them by buying Trust points - 3000 points to enroll 1 week, 4000 to enroll 2, or 5500 to enroll 7.
> 
> Items 1, 2, 3 are offered all the time; #4 only at certain times. Which to do? You have to look at the numbers and see which generates the best cost per point. Each deal is different.



MVC was offering #4 as of this past Wednesday.   This was the first thing offered to me by the sales person/manager.  There was no way I am buying 33k dc points for $350,000 to enroll my weeks.  

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## frank808 (Aug 3, 2019)

CPNY said:


> That helps a lot actually. Thank you. Naturally, I’m looking for the best deal with lowest annual fee. It’s either an MVC or switch gears and go HGVC. Although I’d prefer the locations available through MVC.


Or do what I did and own both HGVC and MVC weeks.  They complement each other very well.  Between the two systems there are quiet a few resorts in the major cities and tourist destinations.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


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## bazzap (Aug 3, 2019)

Picking up on some earlier posts, in Asia it makes no difference whether you are on site or not, MVC have not sold weeks for many years and you cannot buy a resale week even as part of a hybrid package.
Currently they only sell Asia Pacific (AP) points, although there is a a suggestion that they may be able to sell Destination Club (DC) points in future.
It is a little more complicated than this as for Indonesia and Australia they have separate points entities, but these are just variants of AP.


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## CPNY (Aug 3, 2019)

frank808 said:


> Grand residence about 62k points on the low end plus about 5500 points for 2 enrolled weeks and another 3600 for the eligible Willowridge units equals about 71k electable points and the 5k trust points makes it around 76k DC points.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


That’s a ton!! Good for you


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## CPNY (Aug 3, 2019)

frank808 said:


> Or do what I did and own both HGVC and MVC weeks.  They complement each other very well.  Between the two systems there are quiet a few resorts in the major cities and tourist destinations.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


I already own VSE. I’d think it would be the natural progression to own MVC just because of the parent company ownership. HGVC resorts look top notch but I’d think MVC wins out on more destinations


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## Dean (Aug 3, 2019)

frank808 said:


> Hi there everyone.  Just returned from our summer vacation trip.  I was lucky to get an exchange for the new Marriott Pulse in San Fran this past week.  On side note, sorry to not responding to the others that wanted the extra nights I did not need.  It was taken within minutes of me posting the free nights.  I was on vacation and not really bothering with internet.
> 
> Got a call to do a 90min presentation for $150 Amex gift card while at the Pulse.  Asked wife and she agreed which surprised me.  Called the body snatcher back and set up a 930 appointment for Wed July 30.  Figure would be like the last presentation 4 years ago and they would let us go after seeing our resale portfolio of non eligble weels.
> 
> ...


Personally I'd probably do it as you'll likely use points more than you think you would getting more guaranteed reservations.  Even better would be a purchase of a good Aruba, St.Kitt's or Spain week instead of the 5000 pts but I think only those locations and the central sales office can do it that way.


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## Ann in CA (Aug 3, 2019)

CPNY said:


> The sales rep said only Aruba (I figured since I led with I want Aruba) lol. He said Thailand you cannot buy resale you have to buy there and the way Spain is set up it does not come enrolled when buying through them. Luckily I recorded the conversation over the phone.


Our Marbella came enrolled when we bought a hybrid package a couple of years ago.


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## pchung6 (Aug 3, 2019)

CPNY said:


> I already own VSE. I’d think it would be the natural progression to own MVC just because of the parent company ownership. HGVC resorts look top notch but I’d think MVC wins out on more destinations



I’m not sure about the quality between HGVC and MVC. I stayed at Elara and Carlsbad Palisades before, I like both a lot. Hope someone has more details between HGVC vs Marriott.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 3, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> I’m not sure about the quality between HGVC and MVC. I stayed at Elara and Carlsbad Palisades before, I like both a lot. Hope someone has more details between HGVC vs Marriott.



Start a thread? Such questions are typically very subjective.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 3, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> I’m not sure about the quality between HGVC and MVC. I stayed at Elara and Carlsbad Palisades before, I like both a lot. Hope someone has more details between HGVC vs Marriott.



Based on the few that we've stayed at from both systems, at the aggregate, I would say they are comparable. As in anything, there are some design/styling differences from property-to-property, but overall, I would consider HGVC and MVC to be roughly comparable.

Our experience is based on:

MVC
Barony Beach Club, Hilton Head
Grande Ocean, Hilton Head
Maui Ocean Club, Hawaii
Waiohai Beach Club, Kauai, Hawaii
Grand Chateau, Las Vegas
Desert Springs Villas, Palm Desert

HGVC
Kohala Suites, Big Island, Hawaii
Lagoon Tower, Oahu, Hawaii
Elara, Las Vegas
Ocean Oak, Hilton Head
Sea World, Orlando
Tuscany Suites, Orlando


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## Quilter (Aug 3, 2019)

frank808 said:


> Hi there everyone.  Just returned from our summer vacation trip.  I was lucky to get an exchange for the new Marriott Pulse in San Fran this past week.  On side note, sorry to not responding to the others that wanted the extra nights I did not need.  It was taken within minutes of me posting the free nights.  I was on vacation and not really bothering with internet.
> 
> Got a call to do a 90min presentation for $150 Amex gift card while at the Pulse.  Asked wife and she agreed which surprised me.  Called the body snatcher back and set up a 930 appointment for Wed July 30.  Figure would be like the last presentation 4 years ago and they would let us go after seeing our resale portfolio of non eligble weels.
> 
> ...



Don’t you wish you knew the conversation between the sales staff after you left?  They must love seeing 30-40 y/o’s in a high income bracket walk into the room.  You, GregT’s friend (another thread), GoldenVike.  Seems to be a pattern forming here.......

This is a lot of number crunching and I got hooked.  There’s still too much unknown for any of us to understand the full picture.  Obviously you already have a major investment and a hunk of m/f’s.   

What you seem to be asking is ... is a $58k purchase, that you hope to recoup in 14 years because you assume you’ll be spending that much or more in fees, worth the gamble?  It is a gamble because you may change your travel habits.  This is a purchase, not for the use/value of the points, but to save potential fees.

Wouldn’t it be better to look at all you will have invested, along with the annual m/f’s, and ask yourself if it’s worth what you’re doing with it?   Then ask yourself if life had some major changes would you still be able to salvage what you’ve put in?

Even though you’ll have the possibility for lots of DC points it doesn’t sound like you want to use the purchase for the use of exchanging your weeks to points.  Seems you’d lose value as, in many instances, points reservations are the most premium way to book a room.  

When you made your calculations for the 14 years did you take into account the m/f’s you’ll be paying on the 5000 points?  You’ll be saving $6K in fees but spending nearly $3K in new m/f’s plus the annual DC fee.  

If you’re spending $58K to save $6K annually for 14 years, couldn’t you just rent some of your portfolio annually to cover the $6k?

I’ve got to ask about the 38 weeks at MKO.  How many weeks at a stretch?  Do you have to change rooms while you’re there?


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## ilene13 (Aug 4, 2019)

Frank if you are in your 40’s with a 13 year old son what do you do with all of you weeks?  You can’t be constantly traveling.  Does your son go to school? Or are you using all of these weeks as a business and renting them out?


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## frank808 (Aug 4, 2019)

Dean said:


> Personally I'd probably do it as you'll likely use points more than you think you would getting more guaranteed reservations.  Even better would be a purchase of a good Aruba, St.Kitt's or Spain week instead of the 5000 pts but I think only those locations and the central sales office can do it that way.


How many points is a good week worth and how much will these weeks cost?  I would have to purchase at least 5000 dc equivalent points to enroll my weeks.   

Thanks for the recommendation.   I am still in the recission period.  

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## frank808 (Aug 4, 2019)

Quilter said:


> Don’t you wish you knew the conversation between the sales staff after you left?  They must love seeing 30-40 y/o’s in a high income bracket walk into the room.  You, GregT’s friend (another thread), GoldenVike.  Seems to be a pattern forming here.......
> 
> This is a lot of number crunching and I got hooked.  There’s still too much unknown for any of us to understand the full picture.  Obviously you already have a major investment and a hunk of m/f’s.
> 
> ...



Ohh my wife and I hate writing that check in January paying our MF for our MVC, HGVC and DVC timeshares that were paid in Dec.   But we do it every year for the past decade, so we like these TS for sure.   

We went in buying all these TS with thr knowledge that it would be worth $0 when we are done.  If our son wants them or we can sell for anything we consider it a bonus.

Thanks for your advice and unbiased look to my post about spending $58k to save $6k a year.  We use all our weeks and am looking at a long term path to save on the exchange fees.  I am fine with paying the exchange and lock off fees for the past 5 years but if there is a chance to prepay my fees.....

Am always looking for a way to save (its like the thrill of trading my willowridge studio for a week in a 2 or 3 bedroom at MKO).

I do not like to rent and deal with the hassel of being a timeshare landlord.  Any how, we use all our weeks and points to stay at various timeshares but mainly at MKO. 

Debating weather to just turn around and sell the 5000 dc points and recoup 20k.  That will take the break even point down to about 9 years or so.  Don't want to sound entitled or snobbish but the extra 3k in mf a year wont bother us at all if we decide to keep the 5000 dc points.  I am sure we will find a way to use them up.  Probably just divest 1 or 2 HGVC weeks to free up some time to use the dc points.


Now back to the most important question about staying at MKO continuously.  The longest we have stayed in the same villa is about 12 weeks or so.  This was in years past when BQ was the resort manager and before the DC points program.  Didnt matter what unit we got trading, room allocation would try to keep us in the same villa.  Better for my family and I and definitely better for the housekeeping staff. 

Nowadays, to stay in the same villa, the unit codes have to match exactly.  Example, if we are in a 2br single entrance ocean view and the next stay was a 2br dual entrance ocean view, we would have to move.  I have mentioned to FD that we would be fine staying in the same island view the following week instead of our ocean view and have been politely told no.  We dont stay at mko for the view and would be glad to give our OV to stay in the same unit for another week.  The longest we have stayed in one villa this year is 8 or 9 weeks iirc.

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## frank808 (Aug 4, 2019)

ilene13 said:


> Frank if you are in your 40’s with a 13 year old son what do you do with all of you weeks?  You can’t be constantly traveling.  Does your son go to school? Or are you using all of these weeks as a business and renting them out?


I live here on Oahu and he goes to school down the road from MKO.  Wife and I are usually off island for about 9-12 weeks annually.  Our son is off island during his spring, fall and summer breaks(about 7-9 weeks depending on where we are going).  

We use our weeks and have no interest in renting.  

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## Dean (Aug 4, 2019)

I bought a week and enrolled 7.5 weeks a couple of months ago, Aruba Surf Club 3 BR Platinum at $48K rounding off, 5225 pts and dues of 48¢ pp, 10¢ pp less or around $500 a year less.  For my situation it saved me around $13K going in and the $500 yearly on dues.  They first offered 2 gold weeks and i said no, then it was a 2 BR OC plus 250 trust points for around $49K out the door which I agreed to do but then they offered me to change to the deal I quoted for the 3 BR which fits far better our situation as we prefer SC and the 3 BR will be perfect for our situation.  I was already chairmans club but this will give me the ability to set up for legacy transfers and to break it into 2 accounts both Chairman's with 2 Bonvoy status upgrades which makes far more sense in our situation than a trust.  BTW, it wasn't the points amount but the dollar amount that qualified with our purchase.  We'd have only been at 4675 points with the OC + 250 pts option.  They quoted $48K to qualify and we didn't quite hit that with closing costs but I guess we were close enough.  They did have to get approval on the 7.5 weeks but I'm sure they would on yours as well.


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## GregT (Aug 4, 2019)

Frank,

Congratulations on your purchase and I've spent enough time with you and know exactly what you are doing.   I would have done the same and what I find most interesting is that Marriott deviated from their strict promotions.  I don't think I've seen them do that before, but maybe I missed it from others.  That's very interesting to see....thanks again for posting!

Best,

Greg


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 4, 2019)

Frank the good thing about points is it's a simpler transaction to rent out than weeks, no landlord situation.  If it ever comes to that.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Aug 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Frank the good thing about points is it's a simpler transaction to rent out than weeks, no landlord situation.  If it ever comes to that.





This may be true, but the profit margin isn't nearly as great (depending on what week you own).

If you own a juicy ski week (or week 7 in a warm environment) you can get some very high rent on those particular weeks.  However, you would need mega points to reserve those very same weeks to rent out.





.


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## Quilter (Aug 4, 2019)

GregT said:


> Frank,
> 
> Congratulations on your purchase and I've spent enough time with you and know exactly what you are doing.   I would have done the same and what I find most interesting is that Marriott deviated from their strict promotions.  I don't think I've seen them do that before, but maybe I missed it from others.  That's very interesting to see....thanks again for posting!
> 
> ...



Oh no.....more mystery.  Frank’s part of this thread already has its share of the unusual.  Now there’s the question of what exactly is he doing?????


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## JIMinNC (Aug 4, 2019)

TheTimeTraveler said:


> This may be true, but the profit margin isn't nearly as great (depending on what week you own).
> 
> If you own a juicy ski week (or week 7 in a warm environment) you can get some very high rent on those particular weeks.  However, you would need mega points to reserve those very same weeks to rent out.
> .



Why would you want to reserve a high point week like that to then rent out the week? It seems the best way to rent points is to rent the points themselves. Then the person who buys the points can make their own reservation and then the point owner doesn't have to act as a landlord.

People with high value/high point enrolled weeks and the fractional quarter share owners have very low maintenance fee costs per point as I recall - often $0.25 to $0.35/ per point. They can then turn around and rent them for $0.60 to $.70/point. That seems like a good margin to me, and no need to be a landlord. Once the transaction is done, it's done. The buyer makes their own reservation.


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## GregT (Aug 4, 2019)

Quilter said:


> Oh no.....more mystery.  Frank’s part of this thread already has its share of the unusual.  Now there’s the question of what exactly is he doing?????


I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to make it sound that mysterious or exciting — I met Frank at one of our Ko Olina trips and he’s constructed the ability to live at Ko Olina (and HGVC) properties pretty much year round.  We talked about the value of enrolling but he was pretty much blocked out.  He described a willingness to pay a pretty penny to enroll his best weeks and he found a way to do it.

Sorry if I made it sound more intriguing — I’m glad he found the path he and I talked about (in 2014?).

Best,

Greg


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## frank808 (Aug 4, 2019)

Dean said:


> I bought a week and enrolled 7.5 weeks a couple of months ago, Aruba Surf Club 3 BR Platinum at $48K rounding off, 5225 pts and dues of 48¢ pp, 10¢ pp less or around $500 a year less.  For my situation it saved me around $13K going in and the $500 yearly on dues.  They first offered 2 gold weeks and i said no, then it was a 2 BR OC plus 250 trust points for around $49K out the door which I agreed to do but then they offered me to change to the deal I quoted for the 3 BR which fits far better our situation as we prefer SC and the 3 BR will be perfect for our situation.  I was already chairmans club but this will give me the ability to set up for legacy transfers and to break it into 2 accounts both Chairman's with 2 Bonvoy status upgrades which makes far more sense in our situation than a trust.  BTW, it wasn't the points amount but the dollar amount that qualified with our purchase.  We'd have only been at 4675 points with the OC + 250 pts option.  They quoted $48K to qualify and we didn't quite hit that with closing costs but I guess we were close enough.  They did have to get approval on the 7.5 weeks but I'm sure they would on yours as well.



I'll be giving the sales team a call and see if I can get a better deal with the Aruba 3br plat week.  Pay $10k less, get 225 more DC points and save $500 a year on MF seems like a no brainer to see if I can buy that week instead.  Do you pay MF in US dollars or is it considered a foreign transaction subject to currency exchange rates?

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## frank808 (Aug 4, 2019)

GregT said:


> Frank,
> 
> Congratulations on your purchase and I've spent enough time with you and know exactly what you are doing.   I would have done the same and what I find most interesting is that Marriott deviated from their strict promotions.  I don't think I've seen them do that before, but maybe I missed it from others.  That's very interesting to see....thanks again for posting!
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post.  Just want to ask opinions that do not have an emotional attachment to this.  I have been trying to enroll these weeks for years.  The offer surprised me as I was definitely not willing to buy 10k DC points to enroll my weeks.  Getting 26 grand residence weeks enrolled and two more non qualified weeks made sense to me.  Now being able to enroll my other 2 qualified weeks leaves me with 8 un enrolled weeks left.  Will be seeing how to being those into the trust where it will not take me 24+ years to break even.





Steve Fatula said:


> Frank the good thing about points is it's a simpler transaction to rent out than weeks, no landlord situation.  If it ever comes to that.


Never thought of actually converting weeks to points to transfer.  This points transfer is something I would be open to.  Thanks for the help.

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## Dean (Aug 4, 2019)

frank808 said:


> I'll be giving the sales team a call and see if I can get a better deal with the Aruba 3br plat week.  Pay $10k less, get 225 more DC points and save $500 a year on MF seems like a no brainer to see if I can buy that week instead.  Do you pay MF in US dollars or is it considered a foreign transaction subject to currency exchange rates?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


US


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## JIMinNC (Aug 4, 2019)

frank808 said:


> I'll be giving the sales team a call and see if I can get a better deal with the Aruba 3br plat week.  Pay $10k less, get 225 more DC points and save $500 a year on MF seems like a no brainer to see if I can buy that week instead.  Do you pay MF in US dollars or is it considered a foreign transaction subject to currency exchange rates?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Please report back what they say. Other folks have been told that only Central Sales and the local sales office in Aruba can offer the Aruba weeks as a qualifying purchase, and the other offices can only offer points.

Also, as a point of interest, they offered you the post-2010 enrollment promo that was originally scheduled to expire on July 7. Another poster in another thread said the promo was extended to at least July 30. Was your purchase in July or after July 31?


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## frank808 (Aug 5, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Please report back what they say. Other folks have been told that only Central Sales and the local sales office in Aruba can offer the Aruba weeks as a qualifying purchase, and the other offices can only offer points.
> 
> Also, as a point of interest, they offered you the post-2010 enrollment promo that was originally scheduled to expire on July 7. Another poster in another thread said the promo was extended to at least July 30. Was your purchase in July or after July 31?



They offered enrollment promo to me on July 31 last week Wednesday morning.

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## tshd (Aug 6, 2019)

Hi Frank
Have you made a final decision or were you able to switch to a week's purchase?  I'm new to this board but not to ts'ing.  I came here looking for advice on how to increase my points holding in the most effective manner.  After recently reading many posts on this topic, it seems like you got a really good deal to me.  Being able to enroll 30 weeks for one 5000 point purchase?  It seems the most others have been able to do is 7.5 weeks and you got in 4 weeks plus two GRC quarters!!  The MFs on the new points would be a wash if you just turned around and sold them for .60 every year.  So you would just be amortizing the initial purchase cost v savings on other fees you mentioned.  I hope you kept the deal as it seems really good to me and to have the added flexibility of points just in case.  Especially since it doesn't seem to be a financial burden and is just a way to lower your expenses year after year.  I would double check the idea of turning around and reselling the points though because when I was reading another post from around February time, GRCTahoe said that she had done something similar and that she thought that the contract said that you would be disenrolled if you sold the "points" that qualified you, but she never confirmed that.  It appears to me that GRC is a bit unique in that there is a standing offer to get an owner into DC with a minimum purchase and a $5000 enrollment fee.  Do you have to pay that enrollment fee for each of your intervals or was that waived?  Can I ask what size units you have at GRC and would you mind sharing the points chart with me?  You've really sparked my interest!!
Thanks
Alex


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## frank808 (Aug 7, 2019)

tshd said:


> Hi Frank
> Have you made a final decision or were you able to switch to a week's purchase?  I'm new to this board but not to ts'ing.  I came here looking for advice on how to increase my points holding in the most effective manner.  After recently reading many posts on this topic, it seems like you got a really good deal to me.  Being able to enroll 30 weeks for one 5000 point purchase?  It seems the most others have been able to do is 7.5 weeks and you got in 4 weeks plus two GRC quarters!!  The MFs on the new points would be a wash if you just turned around and sold them for .60 every year.  So you would just be amortizing the initial purchase cost v savings on other fees you mentioned.  I hope you kept the deal as it seems really good to me and to have the added flexibility of points just in case.  Especially since it doesn't seem to be a financial burden and is just a way to lower your expenses year after year.  I would double check the idea of turning around and reselling the points though because when I was reading another post from around February time, GRCTahoe said that she had done something similar and that she thought that the contract said that you would be disenrolled if you sold the "points" that qualified you, but she never confirmed that.  It appears to me that GRC is a bit unique in that there is a standing offer to get an owner into DC with a minimum purchase and a $5000 enrollment fee.  Do you have to pay that enrollment fee for each of your intervals or was that waived?  Can I ask what size units you have at GRC and would you mind sharing the points chart with me?  You've really sparked my interest!!
> Thanks
> Alex



Couldn't switch to a weeks purchase.  The reply from the sales manager was that offer for the two quarter shares and two 2br post 2010 weeks.  I have two qualified weeks that were qualified to enrollable.

No wording in paper work that states the interests must be kept to make the weeks enrollable for points.  Does have language I must own 4 beneficial interests to have full use of my points.

I did not have to pay the $5000 so that I can convert DC points to bonvoy points at 1:40 ratio.  I have 1br units as I bought them for trading purposes and 1br mf was the sweet spot.  

Send me a PM and I will email you the points chart for 2019.

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## Dean (Aug 7, 2019)

frank808 said:


> Couldn't switch to a weeks purchase.  The reply from the sales manager was that offer for the two quarter shares and two 2br post 2010 weeks.  I have two qualified weeks that were qualified to enrollable.
> 
> No wording in paper work that states the interests must be kept to make the weeks enrollable for points.  Does have language I must own 4 beneficial interests to have full use of my points.
> 
> ...


I'm not surprised but it was worth a shot.  With the 5000 instead of 5500 and not having to pay the $5K extra, it's not as much difference for you as was was for me anyway.  I still think it's a good deal if you want points in your situation and I think many enjoy them more than they think they will.


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## bizaro86 (Aug 7, 2019)

Given where you're starting from I think this is a good deal and I would keep it. 

The extra flexibility of points will add significant value if MKO trades ever get harder on interval.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 7, 2019)

@frank808 Thanks for sharing. Your approach to TS is eye-opening and unique. Congrats on finding a deal that works well for your family.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 7, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Based on the few that we've stayed at from both systems, at the aggregate, I would say they are comparable. As in anything, there are some design/styling differences from property-to-property, but overall, I would consider HGVC and MVC to be roughly comparable.
> 
> Our experience is based on:
> 
> ...



+1 Agree. MVC and HGVC overall are comparable quality-wise although each system prob. has a few properties that are outliers on the high and low end of the quality spectrum - but they net out to be the same quality.

I find that MVC and Vistana studio units tend to be larger and can sleep 4 whereas the trend in HGVC is to move toward a maximum of 2 in the studio even if it can accommodate more. So if you prefer studios, I would stick with MVC/Vistana. Otherwise, the 1 bdrms and 2 bdrms are about the same size and amenity-wise in both systems.

On the service side, I find HGVC staff more friendly and willing to go the extra mile. However, this could be a result of being recognized as an HGVC owner, whereas our stays at MVC have been promo visits so we might be treated better if we owned MVC.


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## uaremymuse (Aug 8, 2019)

What is your average cost per night?


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## kds4 (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> What is your average cost per night?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



There are a lot of different ways to calculate that. If you are excluding the upfront purchase cost and looking at it only from an an ongoing cost perspective, I would take the number of points per night it costs to stay at a particular property (since the price per night varies per property, by room size, view, and season) and multiply that by the maintenance fee price per point. You could then compare that to the best cash rates available through Marriott.com as one example.


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## uaremymuse (Aug 8, 2019)

Well, I don’t think one can exclude the purchase cost as that’s part of the cost.  So what do you think it cost per night on average?  $3-$400/night?


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 8, 2019)

I doubt he is anywhere close to that number. For 2019, and most of my stuff is developer purchased, mine is $120.58 including purchase costs spread over 20 years (@0%) for the 79 nights I have reserved. And I've been in it for over 20 years, but a few purchases are newer. So, the old purchases are no longer included of course.


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## kds4 (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> Well, I don’t think one can exclude the purchase cost as that’s part of the cost.  So what do you think it cost per night on average?  $3-$400/night?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If you mean a general valuation of the nights 'owned' by the OP, he could take his total expenditures and divide it by the total points value he has at his disposal to get his total average cost per point owned (excluding the ongoing cost of annual MFs), or he could could calculate the cost of his owned nights the same way by just dividing total monies spent by the number of nights owned. If you are asking how much it will cost him per night to stay somewhere using points, it will vary based on all of the factors previously posted - property, season, unit size, view type, timeframe (since he has access to a 30% discount by booking 60 days or less from his desired check-in date), etc.


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## uaremymuse (Aug 8, 2019)

I didn’t realize it was such a complicated question. I think most people have an idea of what their average cost is per night during the year.  I realize that every place charges different points based on the place and the time of year which is why it was a general question.  You have your purchase cost for the points plus your annual maintenance fees.  Is there any other part of the equation that I’m missing?


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> I didn’t realize it was such a complicated question. I think most people have an idea of what their average cost is per night during the year.  I realize that every place charges different points based on the place and the time of year which is why it was a general question.  You have your purchase cost for the points plus your annual maintenance fees.  Is there any other part of the equation that I’m missing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Probably not. I just take (purchase cost / some period of years) + MF + any other expenses (II, etc. ) / # of nights stayed.


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## davidvel (Aug 8, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Probably not. I just take (purchase cost / some period of years) + MF + any other expenses (II, etc. ) / # of nights stayed.


Yes. Ignoring the purchase price and interest is like saying you compute your average price per mile of your car by only including annual gas and maintenance expense.


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## Dean (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> I didn’t realize it was such a complicated question. I think most people have an idea of what their average cost is per night during the year.  I realize that every place charges different points based on the place and the time of year which is why it was a general question.  You have your purchase cost for the points plus your annual maintenance fees.  Is there any other part of the equation that I’m missing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's complicated because people look at things in different lights.  Personally I look at it as a balance sheet and where applicable, include up front costs where significant, Time Value of Money/Opportunity cost and dues as well as the value of the item if used for rentals.  Not everyone is as detailed and while I disagree, some ignore the previous and acquit ion costs just focusing on dues.  Personally I think even dividing your acquisition costs by a long timeframe is too lenient, I generally use 10 years for ROI so to speak.  But again, not everyone wants to pay attention to this detail and as long as they know and decide it's not something they want to worry about, that's fine and their option.


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## frank808 (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> What is your average cost per night?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If this post was for me I will try to answer it.  This does not take into account the purchase of the trust points.  Just all the MVC weeks I have bought resale.  The weeks i bought resale are from 6 to 10 years old.  So purchase price averaged over 20 years makes it negligible. 

Avg MF for 2br unit on high end is about $1200.  So will calculate this to $600+$45 lock off fee +$154 exchange fee+$118 upsize fee at worst going from studio to 2br unit = $917 for week and around $131 a night for a 2br unit at MKO.

MGR 1br would be about $653 mf a week+$154 exchange fee+$59 upsize fee going from 1br to 2br = $866 for week and about $124 a night at mko in a 2br.

Does not take into account the yearly II fee and the platinum fee. That costs about $260 a year divided by 40 weeks so will round it up and add another $1 per day. 

Hope this answers your question.

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## frank808 (Aug 8, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Probably not. I just take (purchase cost / some period of years) + MF + any other expenses (II, etc. ) / # of nights stayed.





Dean said:


> It's complicated because people look at things in different lights.  Personally I look at it as a balance sheet and where applicable, include up front costs where significant, Time Value of Money/Opportunity cost and dues as well as the value of the item if used for rentals.  Not everyone is as detailed and while I disagree, some ignore the previous and acquit ion costs just focusing on dues.  Personally I think even dividing your acquisition costs by a long timeframe is too lenient, I generally use 10 years for ROI so to speak.  But again, not everyone wants to pay attention to this detail and as long as they know and decide it's not something they want to worry about, that's fine and their option.


I just figure out the cost using the method Steve posted.  

Though I know I should be using Deans method on time value of money.  Since I bought resale, the costs are almost negligible for the 2br units.  Have paid anywhere from $0 to $2000 for a week.  I have used these units from 5 to 10 years already.  God willing I will be around to use it for another 30 years.  I see purchase price of each week as what I would have spent on a few days in a hotel room on our trips. 

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## Dean (Aug 8, 2019)

frank808 said:


> I just figure out the cost using the method Steve posted.
> 
> Though I know I should be using Deans method on time value of money.  Since I bought resale, the costs are almost negligible for the 2br units.  Have paid anywhere from $0 to $2000 for a week.  I have used these units from 5 to 10 years already.  God willing I will be around to use it for another 30 years.  I see purchase price of each week as what I would have spent on a few days in a hotel room on our trips.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


And I would agree where the cost going in  is negligible, that's the way I look at it for my Bluegreen points which were 12¢ a point qualified 20 years ago but not my Grande Ocean weeks or DVC for example which were quite a bit more.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 8, 2019)

Time value of money, opportunity cost can also be irrelevant to some. Everyones situation is different. 10 years for us is WAY too short. We've owned for over 20 years already. We can definitely look at the same thing differently, but we may also BE in fact different as far as situations.

But I actually include a lot more than I said, things undoubtedly many others would not. For example, owning TS gives me access to getaways, bonus weeks, etc., I include those. I go to every presentation possible, so, I include those points and their associated trips. I try and capture what I believe to be the fairest valuation. There are many savings and costs I do not include. For example, free food due to Bonvoy status, airlines upgrades, etc. All of these are benefits given as a result of ownership. Were I to use hotels, I would not have said benefits most likely. Therefore, for me, it is fair to include some of them at least.


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## uaremymuse (Aug 8, 2019)

Thanks. If I wanted to buy enough points to be able to live full time in Marriott resorts and hotels for the entire year, year after year, how much would my initial investment be and what would my operating expenses be in maintenance fees for each year?   1 or 2 bedroom units. 


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## uaremymuse (Aug 8, 2019)

Dean said:


> It's complicated because people look at things in different lights.  Personally I look at it as a balance sheet and where applicable, include up front costs where significant, Time Value of Money/Opportunity cost and dues as well as the value of the item if used for rentals.  Not everyone is as detailed and while I disagree, some ignore the previous and acquit ion costs just focusing on dues.  Personally I think even dividing your acquisition costs by a long timeframe is too lenient, I generally use 10 years for ROI so to speak.  But again, not everyone wants to pay attention to this detail and as long as they know and decide it's not something they want to worry about, that's fine and their option.



I agree with your way of looking at it. Cost is cost regardless of the item or when or what. 


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## kds4 (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> Thanks. If I wanted to buy enough points to be able to live full time in Marriott resorts and hotels for the entire year, year after year, how much would my initial investment be and what would my operating expenses be in maintenance fees for each year?   1 or 2 bedroom units.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



To determine that easily, you would need to calculate the mean property in the MVC portfolio (based on points costs) as well as the mean annual cost to reserve a 1BR or 2BR unit at that property for a year (and I cannot even guess what the margin of error is on that calculation).


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## Dean (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> Thanks. If I wanted to buy enough points to be able to live full time in Marriott resorts and hotels for the entire year, year after year, how much would my initial investment be and what would my operating expenses be in maintenance fees for each year?   1 or 2 bedroom units.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, that's be a bunch.  I can't imagine it's be worth it at a $1M going in or more for most items for resale points and maybe half that if one got aggressive with resale purchases plus purchase/enrollments.  And for higher cost locations like HI it'd be a lot more.  Clearly there are better alternatives such as fully owned condo's or fractionals.


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## uaremymuse (Aug 8, 2019)

I’m surprised that no one has done this. 


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 8, 2019)

Doesn't Frank808 come close to owning enough to do this?


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## JIMinNC (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> I’m surprised that no one has done this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Isn't the OP sort of doing that? He said he spends like 38-40 weeks a year at KoOlina, his child goes to school near KoOlina, and then he travels the other 12 weeks or so a year.


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## TXTortoise (Aug 8, 2019)

A year or so ago I did a quick look at owning 52 weeks, not points, of 2BR OF at Maui Ocean Club, original buildings.  I think I assumed $20-22K/week which probably wouldn't pass ROFR now.  The buy-in was actually better than buying a full OF condo ownership, but the MFs kept it from being close to feasible.

That said, I did not include the calculated return of being able to rent the studio each week to offset the MF.  There are some weeks, even on Maui, where I expect the return for the studio would not cover MF.

This would have to be the highest cost sample, though Hilton Head or Newport might be similar.

It would seem that buying quarter-shares in Tahoe, enrolling them and renting the excess points, as previously described, would come closest to being able to do it. I expect Frank808 could extrapolate his ownership to see how a full 52 weeks might look.


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## frank808 (Aug 8, 2019)

Dean said:


> And I would agree where the cost going in  is negligible, that's the way I look at it for my Bluegreen points which were 12¢ a point qualified 20 years ago but not my Grande Ocean weeks or DVC for example which were quite a bit more.



We are the same.  I have used time value of money on our DVC purchases.  Plus there is only a finite use to them as they are RTU.

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## uaremymuse (Aug 8, 2019)

So maybe $1,000,000 to buy 52 weeks and $60,000 a year in MF more or less.  I suspect one might negotiate a better deal if you’re buying 52 weeks. 


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## JIMinNC (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> So maybe $1,000,000 to buy 52 weeks and $60,000 a year in MF more or less.  I suspect one might negotiate a better deal if you’re buying 52 weeks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Not if you are buying resale. You would be negotiating many separate deals, so each seller wouldn't care if you were buying 52; only that you were buying theirs. Buying 52 weeks from a developer would cost way more than $1 million.


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## TXTortoise (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> So maybe $1,000,000 to buy 52 weeks and $60,000 a year in MF more or less.  I suspect one might negotiate a better deal if you’re buying 52 weeks.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Closer to $130k/year MF using 2020 projection.  Guess after year one it would be pretty easy to book your weeks, but a bit tedious. ;-)

Now getting a fixed week for every week in Lahaina or Napili, in the same unit... ($2M a bit more in MF, but virtually impossible to do).  Something at Whalers starts looking pretty good.


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## uaremymuse (Aug 8, 2019)

So in the end, it would be less expensive, less of a headache and more flexible just to negotiate monthly rates with resorts and hotels directly and to forget about buying points or TS weeks. 


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## TXTortoise (Aug 8, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> So in the end, it would be less expensive, less of a headache and more flexible just to negotiate monthly rates with resorts and hotels directly and to forget about buying points or TS weeks.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



For mere timeshare mortals, probably.  Somewhat living on a cruise ship I suppose.  But Frank808 would be the one to answer that question.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 9, 2019)

Buying multiple quarterly fractionals in Ritz would be far cheaper than a million. I've seen 1BR for under 30K.


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## frank808 (Aug 9, 2019)

I could probably stay at MKO every week except for weeks 51&52.  Have been lucky to  trade into MKO for 26 plus weeks for at least the past 6 years.  I have kind of figured it out to cost me about $140 a night in a 1br or 2br unit.  This includes MF, exchange fee, upsize fee and lock off fee.  This does not take into account the TAT that is collected in the state of Hawaii.  

Let's say 280 days at about $140 a night runs me about $39k plus $4k for the TAT so $43k a for 9 months or so.  $4700 a month for minimum 1br unit.  The other 12 weeks or so we are using our HGVC units, on the mainland US using our TS or cruising. 

In Hawaii, mortgage, utilities, insurance, maid service and such will run about the same for me.  So if I rented my main home, it would be a wash.

I bought into TS as a proxy for our retirement home in the mainland US.  This let's me enjoy the retirement home now while we have not officially retired. 

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## frank808 (Aug 9, 2019)

TXTortoise said:


> For mere timeshare mortals, probably.  Somewhat living on a cruise ship I suppose.  But Frank808 would be the one to answer that question.


Definitely cheaper to live on a cruise ship.  Room, food and entertainment are included when sailing. 

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## Dean (Aug 9, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> I’m surprised that no one has done this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I suspect there are those that have.  Because of tax rules and the like, hotels & timeshares are not thrilled if you stay too long in one place but I don't know that I've even seen them actually block anyone.



frank808 said:


> We are the same.  I have used time value of money on our DVC purchases.  Plus there is only a finite use to them as they are RTU.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I look at the all as a RTU in a sense or maybe worse, a liability that may not be desirable in 40 years.  



uaremymuse said:


> So maybe $1,000,000 to buy 52 weeks and $60,000 a year in MF more or less.  I suspect one might negotiate a better deal if you’re buying 52 weeks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As noted, likely not and as you ate up the market availability the prices would tend to go up for resale esp once the brokers figured out what was going on because the higher the price the better the commission.  The fractional would be the way to go here.

I do know of one person who has lived in a timeshare for over a year after retirement (and still going I believe) but it's not at one resort.  My wife and I have discussed doing the same when we retire, selling our home (or downsizing) using our timeshares to live for a couple of years and travel but maybe staying a few weeks here and there with an occasional overseas trip and cruise.  Then when we're done moving in to a retirement community.  But you can do this for a LOT less with exchanges plus timeshares and I have the advantage of having bought at a time when it was overall cheaper and gives more options than one would be able to do today.


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## uaremymuse (Aug 9, 2019)

Thanks from everyone for your thoughts on this topic. The cruise ship idea is certainly an interesting one. I wonder how many have done that and what the cost is. 


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## kds4 (Aug 9, 2019)

uaremymuse said:


> Thanks from everyone for your thoughts on this topic. The cruise ship idea is certainly an interesting one. I wonder how many have done that and what the cost is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.thebalance.com/how-to-retire-on-a-cruise-ship-4589917


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## uaremymuse (Aug 9, 2019)

Thank you for Cruise info. Called and left a message. Sounds very intriguing. Hopefully they can give an option to include a proper Navy burial at sea when the day comes. 


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 9, 2019)

I heard that it is cheaper for retirees to live on a cruise ship than a retirement home. Round the clock medical staff, gourmet food, activities, see the world. What's not to like?


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## jtp1947 (Aug 9, 2019)

Norovirus


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 9, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I heard that it is cheaper for retirees to live on a cruise ship than a retirement home. Round the clock medical staff, gourmet food, activities, see the world. What's not to like?



It's a cruise, that's what's not to like! Lol. They aren't for everyone. But they seem to be for many. DW and I both very much dislike cruises.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 9, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> It's a cruise, that's what's not to like! Lol. They aren't for everyone. But they seem to be for many. DW and I both very much dislike cruises.



You are right - not for everyone - but just out of curiosity, what is it about cruising that you don't like?


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 9, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> You are right - not for everyone - but just out of curiosity, what is it about cruising that you don't like?



Name it. We like LAND activities and stuff, mountains, dirt, rocks, sights (not water). Don't like to be around that many people, don't like eating out so to speak (even if it's "free"), don't like being "stuck on a boat" (the way we view it), like to be driving around seeing things, want to do things when we want to not when anyone else says we want to, for us it feels like a prison because of this, etc. etc. We'd be bored stiff. Just not our thing. Apologies to those who like cruises, not saying you're wrong or anything else. Yes, I realize there are land excursions, etc. We just prefer always being on land for the most part, and still see the world of course.


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## JIMinNC (Aug 9, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Name it. We like LAND activities and stuff, mountains, dirt, rocks, sights (not water). Don't like to be around that many people, don't like eating out so to speak (even if it's "free"), don't like being "stuck on a boat" (the way we view it), like to be driving around seeing things, want to do things when we want to not when anyone else says we want to, for us it feels like a prison because of this, etc. etc. We'd be bored stiff. Just not our thing. Apologies to those who like cruises, not saying you're wrong or anything else. Yes, I realize there are land excursions, etc. We just prefer always being on land for the most part, and still see the world of course.



Yeah, we kind of felt the same way for a long time, and like you, still prefer land travel. But we did a Mediterranean cruise last fall on a smaller ship - Azamara (600-700 passengers) - because we didn't know the area and wanted to use the cruise as a way to sample and see where we might want to go back for independent land visits (we're planning to go back to Tuscany/Italy fall 2020 as soon as we can try to reserve the HGVC in Tuscany). We loved the small ship experience and then did the even smaller Paul Gauguin (300 passengers) for French Polynesia a couple months ago. We're booked on Azamara again for Greek Isles and Amalfi Coast in 2021. After experiencing the uncrowded, laid-back experience on these smaller ships, I don't think we could ever do a mainstream mega-ship. Both Azamara and Paul Gauguin tend to stay in the ports longer (Azamara often until 10 or 11pm and we stayed in Tuscany two full days; Paul Gauguin spends two days each on Bora Bora and Moorea), so both are more like a hotel that moves every day or two than the bang-bang, hurry-up, over-scheduled experiences I've heard about on the larger ships. I've heard both described as cruises for people who don't like cruises!


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 9, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Yeah, we kind of felt the same way for a long time, and like you, still prefer land travel. But we did a Mediterranean cruise last fall on a smaller ship - Azamara (600-700 passengers) - because we didn't know the area and wanted to use the cruise as a way to sample and see where we might want to go back for independent land visits (we're planning to go back to Tuscany/Italy fall 2020 as soon as we can try to reserve the HGVC in Tuscany). We loved the small ship experience and then did the even smaller Paul Gauguin (300 passengers) for French Polynesia a couple months ago. We're booked on Azamara again for Greek Isles and Amalfi Coast in 2021. After experiencing the uncrowded, laid-back experience on these smaller ships, I don't think we could ever do a mainstream mega-ship. Both Azamara and Paul Gauguin tend to stay in the ports longer (Azamara often until 10 or 11pm and we stayed in Tuscany two full days; Paul Gauguin spends two days each on Bora Bora and Moorea), so both are more like a hotel that moves every day or two than the bang-bang, hurry-up, over-scheduled experiences I've heard about on the larger ships. I've heard both described as cruises for people who don't like cruises!



I am sure you are right. For DW, anything more than say 5 people is too many.


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## Dean (Aug 9, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Name it. We like LAND activities and stuff, mountains, dirt, rocks, sights (not water). Don't like to be around that many people, don't like eating out so to speak (even if it's "free"), don't like being "stuck on a boat" (the way we view it), like to be driving around seeing things, want to do things when we want to not when anyone else says we want to, for us it feels like a prison because of this, etc. etc. We'd be bored stiff. Just not our thing. Apologies to those who like cruises, not saying you're wrong or anything else. Yes, I realize there are land excursions, etc. We just prefer always being on land for the most part, and still see the world of course.


Have you been on a cruise, one that should be a good one?  I've seen lots of people who thought they would hate it but ended up loving them.  We like both, I wouldn't want to just do cruising, we want variety.  But I've also seen people that have given it a college try and it's not for them.  Sometimes I see people who have a not great experience that isn't representative and they aren't willing to give it another try.  I have an Aunt that was on Regency cruises during the time they went bankrupt and were trying to get the ship back to home port.


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