# [ 2008 ] SVO eBay Sales



## DavidnRobin

*Recent eBay auction sales for Westin SVO VOIs that have been successfully completed.*
Please note - that even though these are successfuly completed auctions, it does not mean that the sale went through.  Also, price may not reflect usage year, whether MFs are included, or closing costs. Caveat Emptor
{Note: I don't track Sheraton or Harborside eBay sales - if anyone wants to contributes these - please feel free.  Please do not put ongoing or unsuccessful eBay sales here. Also, do not put sales from other venues since these do not have final offer listed - as this is for eBay sales only}

*WKORV 1Bd (81K SO) - $16,5000* (2/25/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320212203911&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

*WKORV-N 2Bd LO OF (148.1K SO) - $50,000* (2/20/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260205602715&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016

*WKV - 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $9,500* (2/15/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350023869638&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=022

*WKV - 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $8,256* (2/14/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310021359404&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021

*WKORV-N 2Bd LO IV (148.1K SO) - $20,000* (2/9/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320206077126&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

*WSJ - 2Bd Prem, Week 42 (67.1K SO) - $17,100* (1/30/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250209611254&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015

*WKORV 2Bd LO IV (148.1K SO) - $24,500* (1/23/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290198897349&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019

*WKV 2Bd LO (148.1K SO) - $20,000* (1/21/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330205575198&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014

*WMH 2Bd LO Plat - $10,012* (1/17/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140197510036&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004

*WKV - 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $5,325* (1/8/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190187772437&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

*WKV 2Bd LO (56.3K SO) - $3,650* (1/4/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350010619654&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=022

*WSJ Studio Week 26 - $7,050* (1/1/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150190924821&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005

*WKV 1Bd Dlx (25.8K SO) - $2,500* (1/31/07)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190185951677&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

*WKV 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $8,850* (1/26/07)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190185121108&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009


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## SDKath

Nice list!  Thanks for taking the time to put this up.  I may have a few to add on as well from January.  I will look when I get home tonight.  K


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## DavidnRobin

*WKORV-N IV (148.1K SO) - $27, 606* (2/25/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320212343282&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

* WSJ Studio Week 28, Unit 3311 - $10,000* (2/25/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180217041124&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008


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## SDKath

*Here are a few.  I will clean up the titles when I have a bit more time*

*SDO 1BR smaller unit deeded week 15 $505*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=200201251181&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

*SBP Platinum 2BR (not lockoff) $2056*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=220200401103&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

*SDO large 1BR EY Platinum deeded week 16 $1836*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=280200731133&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

*SVV 2BR LO Platinum (95k SOs) $14,300*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=290204128053&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI


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## SDKath

*SVV 2BR LO Bella Platinum 84,000 SOs*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=190195576639&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

*SBP 1BR EY Platinum $2700*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=270211818808&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI


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## rocky

This is fabulous data.  Thanks for all the hard work!


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## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO Gold - $4800 *(2/15/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-MISSION-...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## DavidnRobin

Selected eBay Auctions from before April 2007

WKV (56.3K SO) - $5,350
WKV 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $11,550
WKV 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $10,200
WKV 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $10,999
WKV 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $8,751
WSJ 3Bd Week 18 - $39,500
WKV 2Bd LO (148.1K SO) - $21,000
WKV 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $11, 211


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Studio, Weeks 19&20 - $7,800* (2/27/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Beautiful-St-Jo...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Fantastic Deal by Tugger! :whoopie:

Perfect example as to why it is important to advertise your TS correctly, and know its worth...


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## GrayFal

DavidnRobin said:


> *WSJ Studio, Weeks 19&20 - $7,800* (2/27/08)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Beautiful-St-Jo...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> Fantastic Deal by Tugger! :whoopie:


YIKES, do we know the winner?????


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## DavidnRobin

Perhaps I shouldn't have said this... but I did want to post the eBay ad to be inclusive.


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## DeniseM

DavidnRobin said:


> *WSJ Studio, Weeks 19&20 - $7,800* (2/27/08)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Beautiful-St-Jo...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> Fantastic Deal by Tugger! :whoopie:
> 
> Perfect example as to why it is important to advertise your TS correctly, and know its worth...



Interesting-

The Ad is confusing - is it a 1 bdm. or a studio?

Are you referring to weeks 19 & 20 being Gold, and not Plat?


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## DavidnRobin

In that it didn't state Westin in the Title (why my search missed it - otherwise I may have bid...) and had a 'soft' description.

It is a studio, but that sales price is for 2 weeks (thus an incredible deal - WSJ studio for $2900/week - wow!).

In my tracking of eBay - it is really telling that if a seller sets a reserve, a Buy It Now, or a high starting price - they usually go unsold (lots of examples).  Also,being very clear about what you are selling - you can tell the sellers that have found TUG in that they know about M resorts - how SVN works - and the difference between SOs and SPs.

The weeks being WSJ Gold, Plat or Plat+ doesn't mean that much - it comes down to the SO worth - also not mentioned.


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Studio, Week 18, Unit 3216 - $10,300* (3/1/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180219025677&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008


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## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO, Gold - $5100 *(11/1/07)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sid=m37&satitle=140171971923&category0=&fvi=1
Note: SVO reported to have exercised ROFR (12/3/07)


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## DavidnRobin

_[Info. about unsold resale deleted - thanks for understanding. DeniseM]_

I stated in the 1st post that this was only for completed (and successful) eBay ads.
I did this for a couple of reasons...
1) It opens for people to advertise their units indirectly - and that is against TUG rules, and...
2) There are alot of eBay ads (many more than listed) that I have not listed here because there were no bids or reserve wasn't meant.

This is an example of the reserve not being hit - and therefore wouldn't make this list.  If an eBay auction hits its reserve - I will post Westins - if someone wants to add VV or HRA - feel free.


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## DavidnRobin

_[Information about an unsold week deleted - DeniseM]_



> This one belongs to a friend of mine--buyer got cold feet and walked--I think she is going to put back on but waited till she sold her week 18.
> __________________



Thanks for the update - I did state that it is possible that while this were completed/successful ads - there is no easy way to know if the transaction actually went thru - so goes to show to be careful of this data - like the WMH that had a ROFR.


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## RLG

DavidnRobin said:


> I have no issue with showing unsuccessful ads - it is just that I didn't want to complie and list because there are alot of them.  If someone want to - go ahead, but please be inclusive as to be complete.  You can see them by searching on completed ads (at least for the last 30 days).




I would strongly prefer that this thread NOT contain "unsuccesful" auctions.  

Are we going to include all the auctions where people set ridiculously high minimum bids and which never sell?


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## SDKath

DavidnRobin said:


> Thanks for the update - I did state that it is possible that while this were completed/successful ads - there is no easy way to know if the transaction actually went thru - so goes to show to be careful of this data - like the WMH that had a ROFR.



There was a WMH that had ROFR???  I didn't know that?  Any info on that?  Thanks.  Katherine


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## DeniseM

I agree - let's comply with the intent of this thread and stick to completed auctions.

I'm going to remove the ones that did not sell, because they could be perceived as Ads - thanks for understanding.


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## RLG

DavidnRobin said:


> SVO reported to have exercised ROFR (12/3/07)



To be very clear, the buyer reported that SVO "apparently" exercised right of first refusal.

Given that the seller is in the business of selling timeshares (a PCC?), I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the seller lied to the buyer about the ROFR.


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## DavidnRobin

All of these eBay sales have potential for not correctly representing accurate sales - for reasons too numerous to list - caveat emptor

btw, that would be risky - there is a specific process for SVO has for doing this - it would be easy to find out and risky business practice {i would eat them alive if it were me...}


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## DavidnRobin

RLG said:


> I would strongly prefer that this thread NOT contain "unsuccesful" auctions.
> 
> Are we going to include all the auctions where people set ridiculously high minimum bids and which never sell?



I agree to a point.  But there is a lot of important info to be gleened from the realistic eBay auctions that don't sell - for example - a reserve price that doesn't hit gives info as to what people looking are willing pay (...and not like that idiot selling WPORV as a 3Bd for more than SVO...  )  

There are many out there where someone sets a price that is just too high - or ad is poorly described.  As noted - 'no reserve', high start, and poorly described ad are the killer for getting as much as possible.

oh yeah - and absolutely nothing by eBayer timesharebyowner  

but I am not listing


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## RLG

DavidnRobin said:


> btw, that would be risky - there is a specific process for SVO has for doing this - it would be easy to find out



Yes, it's true that it could be verified. Just check the public records and see if Starwood was the buyer of the unit which was subject to the contract.

The buyer is unlikely to do that.  I would be unlikely to do that as well since the seller would just point out that Ebay real estate sales are non-binding.  

If the seller told me that, I would react the same as when (as frequently has happened) Ebay buyers tell me they can't pay right away because of a "funeral".  I assume they're lying and act accordingly (i.e. I relist the item.).  I haven't been proven wrong yet.


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## RLG

DavidnRobin said:


> I agree to a point.  But there is a lot of important info to be gleened from the realistic eBay auctions that don't sell - for example - a reserve price that doesn't hit gives info as to what people looking are willing pay (...and not like that idiot selling WPORV as a 3Bd for more than SVO...  )
> 
> There are many out there where someone sets a price that is just too high - or ad is poorly described.  As noted - 'no reserve', high start, and poorly described ad are the killer for getting as much as possible.
> 
> oh yeah - and absolutely nothing by eBayer timesharebyowner
> 
> but I am not listing




I assume we can all agree that auctions which attract no bids have no information value.  

The question of whether reserve auctions generate bids which are lower than non-reserve auctions has always been a subject of heated debate in the Ebay world.  Since I'm much less likely to bid on a reserve auction, I believe that they do.

I'd would agree that unsuccesful reserve auctions which attract bids might contain valuable market data.  However, I think they should be in their own thread so that they aren't mixed together with the generally more useful info about auctions which appear to have actually matched a buyer and seller.


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## DavidnRobin

RLG said:


> I assume we can all agree that auctions which attract no bids have no information value.
> 
> The question of whether reserve auctions generate bids which are lower than non-reserve auctions has always been a subject of heated debate in the Ebay world.  Since I'm much less likely to bid on a reserve auction, I believe that they do.
> 
> I'd would agree that unsuccesful reserve auctions which attract bids might contain valuable market data.  However, I think they should be in their own thread so that they aren't mixed together with the generally more useful info about auctions which appear to have actually matched a buyer and seller.



We are going to have to agree to disagree on the point that auctions that attract no bids have no information value.  There are many examples where a high starting bid auction with no bidders tell you what the VOI is not likely worth (if described sufficiently/accurately).  e.g. a WKORV 2Bd LO OV listed (properly) with a starting bid of $32K and no bidders tells me that the value of this VOI is likely less than that.

Alternatively, there are eBay ads with zero value (many from timesharesbyowner) in that they set a price that is twice the resale price - but they are just ripping people off desparate to sell their TSs and charging upfront fees with no real intention to sell.

I DO agree that this thread is not the place for them, and also agree that it is very apparent (from watching for >2 years now) that if someone is looking to sell on eBay that they are better off not setting a reserve, or high starting bid - AND importantly describing what they have accurately (along with a good eBay rating with lots of sells/buys) has a major impact on the final auction price.  There is a lot to learn from these auctions that are both successful and unsuccessful.

As stated above - a Tugger just got a fantastic deal on a VOI from the eBay ad not listing it as a Westin TS in the title (and no eBay rating) and having a confusing ad.  I myself got somewhat of a deal on our WSJ purchase because the seller was somewhat shady and listed a poor ad.

Because of this tracking of successful and unsuccessful eBay ads over the last couple of years - I have a very good idea what WKORV, WKORV-N, WKV and WSJ VOIs are worth on the resale market. Also, if I were to ever sell - and if I used eBay - what I need to get the best price.

I have even written to a few sellers on eBay to help them (and always to find TUG) - some have heeded this advice while others must have thought I was a scammer (or a lunatic - which is more likely) - and some have written back to justify their price - like the WPORV guy selling his 2Bd LO as a 3Bd at a higher price than SVO.   

Also, I have advised some Tuggers in listing with eBay to not set a reserve or a high starting price (as well to describe the TS properly and completely) - and if they are nervous that they are going to get undercut - then to bail out and risk a bad eBay rating (other Tuggers have strongly disagreed with this approach) unless they use eBay as part of their regular business since they have little to lose - other than a negative eBay rating.  IMO - IMO - IMO - so let's not argue this point.

Now... back to our original programming...


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## RLG

DavidnRobin said:


> We are going to have to agree to disagree on the point that auctions that attract no bids have no information value.  There are many examples where a high starting bid auction with no bidders tell you what the VOI is not likely worth (if described sufficiently/accurately).  e.g. a WKORV 2Bd LO OV listed (properly) with a starting bid of $32K and no bidders tells me that the value of this VOI is likely less than that.



I stand corrected.  I agree that an auction which gets no bids does provide the information that the market value is less than the starting bid.

Unfortunately, so many of the auctions have starting prices which are so much more than the market value, that the information value is low.

BTW, I've been an Ebay buyer and seller for more than 11 years and I agree with everything you said about reserve prices.


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## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO Plat - $10,300* (3/3/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140210698917&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004


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## SDKath

Forgot to add that when a seller lists a week for sale on eBay and puts a reserve on it, it drives me nuts when they are unwilling to disclose the reserve via email at least.  I have had replies like, "that would not be fair to the other bidders" as if we all want to be surprised in those last few minutes of auction when it comes to spending thousands of dollars!

I feel like people need to plan ahead with these purchases.  So if someone is going to sell that awesome WKORV OV timeshare for $30,000 with a reserve, for all of our sanity put the reserve price INTO the auction's description so that everyone is aware of about how much you want for it and can plan their finances ahead of time.  Or at the least say "reserve emailed upon request," like many of the regular eBay timeselling companies do.

JMHO.  Katherine


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## rocky

ok..... I don't know anything about Ebay, but I used to spend hours on the buying and selling TUG forums to learn about the strategies used by experienced timeshare traders.  There was a MAJOR bias towards NEVER sharing the reserve price if you were a seller, and if you were a buyer you were supposed to do whatever you could to get the seller to give you the reserve price.  But....  I remember clearly that one should NEVER tell the reserve price when selling.  So I'm not surprised you can't get it .


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## sjuhawk_jd

*Another mistake was to combine the MFs for two weeks*



DavidnRobin said:


> In that it didn't state Westin in the Title (why my search missed it - otherwise I may have bid...) and had a 'soft' description.
> 
> It is a studio, but that sales price is for 2 weeks (thus an incredible deal - WSJ studio for $2900/week - wow!).
> 
> In my tracking of eBay - it is really telling that if a seller sets a reserve, a Buy It Now, or a high starting price - they usually go unsold (lots of examples).  Also,being very clear about what you are selling - you can tell the sellers that have found TUG in that they know about M resorts - how SVN works - and the difference between SOs and SPs.
> 
> The weeks being WSJ Gold, Plat or Plat+ doesn't mean that much - it comes down to the SO worth - also not mentioned.



My experience with ebay is that lot of folks will not bid if they see a high(er)number for MF. Therefore, properly stating MF is also a key to get more bids (thereby higher price). This seller should have listed maintenance fee for 1 week and then stated in the auction that since this auction is for two weeks, you will be paying twice of that each year. 

Also, just because the auction ended at this price, does not mean the sale went through. The seller may have changed his/her mind.


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## SDKath

rocky said:


> ok..... I don't know anything about Ebay, but I used to spend hours on the buying and selling TUG forums to learn about the strategies used by experienced timeshare traders.  There was a MAJOR bias towards NEVER sharing the reserve price if you were a seller, and if you were a buyer you were supposed to do whatever you could to get the seller to give you the reserve price.  But....  I remember clearly that one should NEVER tell the reserve price when selling.  So I'm not surprised you can't get it .



That is ideal if you are a seller.  But if you are a bargain hunting buyer, I don't think you do "whatever it takes" to get to the reserve.  You just say ah, well, I will try for the next auction.  Especially since so many reserves are so much higher than reasonable (and most of the reserve auctions GO UNSOLD, as David also noted.  When I see a reserve I am turned off by the auction immediately.  That is why so many sellers put into the tag line "no reserve".  Again, just my thoughts.


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## Robert D

My observation in buying a lot of stuff on Ebay over quite a few years is that reserve auctions don't generate as many offers or as high of offers as no reserve auctions and I don't understand why people use reserves. I think a much better alternative is to put a minimum price of what you're willing to sell it for instead of a reserve.  If your price is reasonable, I think you'll end up getting a higher price versus a reserve and have a better chance of selling it. Has anyone had success doing reserve auctions?  I agree that if you do have a reserve, you should disclose it in the verbage so people will know if it's worth their time to bid.  Seems like a lot of people won't bid on reserve auctions.


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## nodge

*Lakeside Terrace (Avon)**, 2 BR, Annual, Plat - $4675.00 (March 4, 2008)*

*Sheraton Broadway Plantation (Myrtle Beach)**, 2 BR, Annual, Plat - $2325.00 (March 4, 2008)*


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## nodge

*Sheraton Mountain Vista (Avon)**, 2 BR L/0, Annual, Plat - $9,900.00 (March 5, 2008)*


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## Robert D

Interesting that a 2BR lockoff ski week at Mountain Vista would sell for twice as much as a regular 2BR ski week at Lakeside Terrace which is right next door.  I bet M&T are less at Lakeside Terrace.  I'd take the LT deal at less than half price!


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## myip

If you look at the lakeside terrace ads, it doesn't mention anything about manage by starwood.  I think that may be a factor for low price.


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## DeniseM

I've been asked to divide this thread into 2 parts - one for _discussion_ of the thread and one just for SVO ebay Sales.  Or I could just copy and past the sales info. (only) to a sticky, which would be easier...

ANY OPINIONS?


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## SDKath

I'd say discussion thread and a separate list of eBay sales results.

 K


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## DavidnRobin

Hi DM I guess I would have to understand the reasons before responding.  I do not want tangents here - but some discussion is very educational in terms to the specific eBay successful sale, and having them separate threads would lose the context - thus the value.


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## nodge

*Sheraton Desert Oasis (Scottsdale)**, EOY-even, small one bedroom (460 Sq ft), pre-Starwood Plat (week 1-52 floater) - $311.50  (March 6, 2008)*


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## DeniseM

DavidnRobin said:


> Hi DM I guess I would have to understand the reasons before responding.  I do not want tangents here - but some discussion is very educational in terms to the specific eBay successful sale, and having them separate threads would lose the context - thus the value.




I think the intent was to have a separate record of the auctions, without the discussion.  That is why I suggested putting the auctions in an on-going list in a sticky.  I think I will leave this thread as it is, but start a sticky to keep the sales info. only for future review.


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## DavidnRobin

Cool beans...


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## nodge

*Sheraton Broadway Plantation (Myrtle Beach)**, 2 BR-L/O, EOY-Even, Silver (weeks 2-6, 49-50)  - $611 (March 8, 2008)*


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## DJmonkey

*WKV $8256 Didn't go through*

Sorry. This some how ende dup posted in the wrong forum.
FYI 
That kierlands $8256 sale was me. When I went to pay ofr it they said sorry it is actually silver and only 56,000 points. 

I did not buy it.


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## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO Gld- $4150 *(3/10/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140212594831&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004


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## DavidnRobin

DJmonkey said:


> FYI
> That kierlands $8256 sale was me. When I went to pay for it they said sorry it is actually silver and only 56,000 points.
> 
> I did not buy it.



Thanks for letting us know - too bad - it would have been a great price.  Is tochoa25 (eBay TS broker) getting a negative eBay rating - or compensating you in some way? They do tend to relist a number of WKV 2Bd Gold's alot.


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## saluki

DJmonkey said:


> That kierlands $8256 sale was me. When I went to pay ofr it they said sorry it is actually silver and only 56,000 points.
> 
> I did not buy it.



Hmmm...I guess that's one method to avoid setting a reserve price!


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## nodge

*Sheraton Desert Oasis (Scottsdale)**, 2 BR-L/O, Annual, Pre-Starwood Plat (Weeks 1-52 floater) - $4550.00* (March 11, 2008)

*Sheraton Desert Oasis (Scottsdale)**, Small one bedroom, Annual, Pre-Starwood Plat (Weeks 1-52 floater) - $580.00 *(March 11, 2008)

*Sheraton Desert Oasis (Scottsdale)**, 2 BR-L/O, EOY-Odd, Post-Starwood Gold (Weeks 22-27 & 36-49) - $800 *(March 9, 2008)

*Sheraton Mountain Vista (Avon)**, Large one-bedroom, Annual, Gold (Summer weeks 21-39) - $202.50 *(March 10, 2008)


_
[Thank you!  Posted in permanent sticky - DeniseM]_


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## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO, Slvr (56.3K SO) - $2124* (3/12/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320225675003&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011




_[Thank you!  Posted in sticky - DeniseM]_


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## nodge

*Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort (Port St. Lucie, FL)**, 2 BR-L/O, Annual, Plat (Weeks 1-17, 40-47, 51-52) - $1075.03* (March 13, 2008)

This is the first PGA for our TUG database.  If trading power for PGA is as good as has been reported here, this 2 BR Lock-off, with its two platinum trade-able weeks per year, was a very good deal.

-nodge



_[Thank you!  Posted in sticky - DeniseM]_


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## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO Float wk1-52 - $7080* (3/18/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260219643501&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016







Thanks!  Posted in sticky.  (I think someone we know and love bought this TS! :ignore - DeniseM


----------



## trader14

nodge said:


> *Sheraton PGA Vacation Resort (Port St. Lucie, FL)**, 2 BR-L/O, Annual, Plat (Weeks 1-17, 40-47, 51-52) - $1075.03* (March 13, 2008)
> 
> This is the first PGA for our TUG database.  If trading power for PGA is as good as has been reported here, this 2 BR Lock-off, with its two platinum trade-able weeks per year, was a very good deal.
> 
> -nodge
> 
> 
> 
> _[Thank you!  Posted in sticky - DeniseM]_



maybe so but this looks like the same item 2 BR Lock-off Platinum week and it didn't even get a bid for $100

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sheraton-PGA-Va...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2 Bd LO Gold - 81K SOs - $7540* (3/25/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200209477429&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010




[Thank you! - Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


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## DavidnRobin

*WKORVN 2Bd LO OV EOYe - 148.1K SO - $23,067 *(3/25/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140216017261&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004

Note: The eBay auction did not state that this is an EOY (even) OV unit.  At this price, the buyer will hopefully realize that they paid too much.  This transaction is being discussed in another thread.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67848

[Thank you! - Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WLOR (Lagunamar) 2Bd LO EOYe Plat+, $12,500 *(3/26/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290215797496&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019



[Thank you! - Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


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## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2 Bd LO Gold - 81K SOs - $7870 *(4/3/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190210386040&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009



[Thank you! - Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


----------



## SDKath

DavidnRobin said:


> *WKV 2 Bd LO Gold - 81K SOs - $7870 *(4/3/08)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190210386040&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009



That is the lowest I have seen for WKV Gold!   The prices seem to be free-falling right now.  WMH for $7000, now this.  Kath


----------



## DavidnRobin

This could be the same listing as another one listed a few posts above - remember that just because they are completed eBay auctions doesn't mean that they go though. Plus - I wouldn't call it a free fall - prices around this price have been seen before.  Prices for Platinum VOIs at WKV are probably more representative since this season is a much higher value.


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> This could be the same listing as another one listed a few posts above - remember that just because they are completed eBay auctions doesn't mean that they go though. Plus - I wouldn't call it a free fall - prices around this price have been seen before.  Prices for Platinum VOIs at WKV are probably more representative since this season is a much higher value.



It was a relisted auction.


----------



## trader14

SDKath said:


> That is the lowest I have seen for WKV Gold!   The prices seem to be free-falling right now.  WMH for $7000, now this.  Kath



ebay auction number 200209477429 wkv sold for $7,540.00 on march 25, annual with 81k, so the one that recently sold is actually a bump up in price
http://cgi.ebay.com/STAROPTIONS-Wes...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2 Bd LO Gold - 81K SOs - $9100 *(4/10/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350044130638&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=022








[Thank you! - Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


----------



## stevens397

Thanks to a very kind and generous TUGGER, I'm on contract for the WMH Platinum 2 BR for $7,080.  I still have no idea where I'm going with it in terms of requalification and the road to 5*, but at that price, hell, when my wife retires we'll go there every year!  No we just have to see if it has a chance in hell of making it through ROFR.

I love this country and the economic pains we're going through concern me, but the fact is this will be an extraordinary opportunity for some people to pick up some incredible values.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2 Bd LO Gold - 81K SOs - $9500* (4/10/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160224980089&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006






[Thank you! - Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


----------



## Denise L

stevens397 said:


> Thanks to a very kind and generous TUGGER, I'm on contract for the WMH Platinum 2 BR for $7,080.  I still have no idea where I'm going with it in terms of requalification and the road to 5*, but at that price, hell, when my wife retires we'll go there every year!  No we just have to see if it has a chance in hell of making it through ROFR.
> 
> I love this country and the economic pains we're going through concern me, but the fact is this will be an extraordinary opportunity for some people to pick up some incredible values.



Wow! Great price  !

Just curious, the ebay ad said floats 1-52, which I don't think is even possible at WMH, so is it really Plat, and the ad just wrong with the weeks it lists?


----------



## stevens397

I had the same question but my sense is that in the absence of StarOptions, I'm free to schedule any week I want.  It was within SVN, booking during the summer would mean I had leftover Options - not an issue for a resale.

Either that or I'm getting screwed!


----------



## SDKath

Actually, it's neither.  WMH is 3 seasons with a Platinum, Gold and Silver week.  This was deeded in the Platinum season sooooo it's Platinum.  I believe you CAN'T reserve Gold or Silver time -- only your own season.  If you retro it and get the 148,100 SOs, you will be able to use the SOs to reserve anything at any time though.  But for now, as a resale, you can't pick a Gold time to go with a Platinum season week.  PM me if it doesn't make sense (before it's too late).  

Kath


----------



## Ken555

Yup, I believe the only way to reserve outside your season is via depositing to II and exchanging... to the same resort but at a different seaons and with II's exchange fee.


----------



## Ken555

WKR 2bd Gold EY 81k - $7,122 (4/13/08)






[Thank you! - Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


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## DavidnRobin

*WKV 1Bd Platinum 81K SOs - $9450* (4/18/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150235630410




[Thank you! - Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO Gold EOY odd 81K SOs - $5300 *(4/21/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280218141329&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018





[Thank you! Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


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## twz

I didn't see this in the list, so I thought I'd add it (a unit I picked up as a trader)...

*SDO Small one bedroom, Annual, Pre-Starwood Plat (Weeks 1-52 floater) - $777.77* (March 16, 2008)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140213443152&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=004




[Thank you! Posted in sticky - DeniseM]


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## DavidnRobin

I am only tracking Westin SVO's - if someone wants to pick-up Sheraton and HRA eBay SVO sales - feel free.  There was some effort a while back - but it dropped off.


----------



## twz

Sorry -- saw some Sheraton's on this thread and lost my head


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## DavidnRobin

twz said:


> Sorry -- saw some Sheraton's on this thread and lost my head



Posting SVO Sheraton's is great -(just not by me) - please feel free to list.


----------



## DeniseM

twz said:


> Sorry -- saw some Sheraton's on this thread and lost my head



It's absolutely fine to post any and all Starwood ebay sales data here.  David just tracks Westin, but a lot of people are interested in Sheraton as well.


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## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO - Gold - $4050 * (4/22/08)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140224984209&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO EOY odd - Gold - $2750* (4/22/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140224985932&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004



[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO Gold (81K SO) - $9500* (4/23/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190215845010&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## Ken555

These prices are ridiculous! Has something happened to WMH that I'm not yet aware of? Special assessment coming soon? This is a bargain!


----------



## SDKath

I think the economy has happened to timesharing and real estate in general.   

Washington Mutual just announced that they are closing every single one of their home loan offices across the country.  This from the largest and most powerful home loan lender in the US.  Not good.   

K


----------



## DavidnRobin

Tell me about it - if I waited 2 months more I could have saved over a grand on a resale purchase via eBay - oh well... WSJ and STJ in less than 2 months and then WKORV... and we bought our plane tix well in advance.  Always a silver lining...


----------



## DavidnRobin

oops - mistake... sorry.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 1Bd Plat Premium - 81K SO - $10,100* (4/28/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190217088853&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009




[Thanks! - Posted in sticky! - DeniseM]


----------



## clsmit

DavidnRobin said:


> *WKV 1Bd Plat Premium - 81K SO - $10,100* (4/28/08)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190217088853&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009



This one is ours (the DH is shopping AGAIN!  ). Since it wasn't really 81K SO (it was 67,100) we negotiated a lower price.

I think the DH is on his way to 5* with his own version of sdKath's method...

(Wishing I were back at the St Regis Monarch Beach, since it's only 40 today in northeast OH  )

Carol


----------



## DavidnRobin

Interesting - IMO the 67.1K SO units do not have as much value as the 81K SO units (because of SVN exchange flexibility) - I hope you negotiated a great price.


----------



## clsmit

DavidnRobin said:


> Interesting - IMO the 67.1K SO units do not have as much value as the 81K SO units (because of SVN exchange flexibility) - I hope you negotiated a great price.



We got a price both us and the seller agreed upon . The DH is using kind of an average price per option method, so he knew what he was willing to pay based on that. We'll use the options to go visit there once in a while but more often to combine with our other options to get into larger places 8 months out. Requals will also be part of the process, or perhaps an upgrade if SVO gets random WKV inventory.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I understand - but resale SOs cannot be combined - unless retro'd.

Also FWIW - I would argue that a $/SO is not equilvalent between 81K SOs and 67.1K SOs.  81K (and 148.1K SOs) have more $/SO value because of the flexibility of exchanging within SVN - and more value if/when you sell the VOI.  Bottom-line - not all SOs are equal.

For example - If 81K SOs at WKV is worth $8,100 - that doesn't mean 67.1K SOs at WKV are worth $6,710.  They are worth less than this.

I was almost in contract at WKV for 67.1K SOs when I luckily found this out from another Tugger - thought I would pass along.  Take from it whatever you want - just trying to help out.

Best.


----------



## clsmit

DavidnRobin said:


> I understand - but resale SOs cannot be combined - unless retro'd.



I meant retro instead of requal. But perhaps both, depending on what else we can pick up.



DavidnRobin said:


> Also FWIW - I would argue that a $/SO is not equilvalent between 81K SOs and 67.1K SOs.  81K (and 148.1K SOs) have more $/SO value because of the flexibility of exchanging within SVN - and more value if/when you sell the VOI.  Bottom-line - not all SOs are equal.
> 
> For example - If 81K SOs at WKV is worth $8,100 - that doesn't mean 67.1K SOs at WKV are worth $6,710.  They are worth less than this.


Good point. I'll bring that up with the DH, as it might factor into future purchases.


----------



## SDKath

clsmit said:


> We got a price both us and the seller agreed upon . The DH is using kind of an average price per option method, so he knew what he was willing to pay based on that. We'll use the options to go visit there once in a while but more often to combine with our other options to get into larger places 8 months out. Requals will also be part of the process, or perhaps an upgrade if SVO gets random WKV inventory.



This is a good plan but check what the original purchase price was on the 67,000 SO unit.  You need a $10,000 difference.  They currently have some inventory in gold time (2BR LO I think for about $27,000) so the 1BR you bought has to be less than $17,000 purchase price to make the upgrade possible.  They no longer have 2BR platinums (sold for about $38,000) so I would not count on being able to purchase that.  They are much more likely to get a Gold week back from owners than a Platinum so be careful that the price spread is there!

Katherine


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> I would argue that a $/SO is not equilvalent between 81K SOs and 67.1K SOs.  81K (and 148.1K SOs) have more $/SO value because of the flexibility of exchanging within SVN - and more value if/when you sell the VOI.  Bottom-line - not all SOs are equal.



Absolutely correct. 81 & 148.1 are worth more $$/SO than 67k.

I was also watching this auction, as 1Bd Premium Plat WKR are rare. It's a shame the seller didn't know what they had when it was originally posted (a common eBay trait...).


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## DavidnRobin

*WKV 1Bd Prem - Silver - 30,500 SO - $2550 *(4/30/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180236275822&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO - Gold - 81,000 SO - $9300 *(4/30/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290225153071&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019




[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 1Bd Prem - Gold - 44,000 SO - $3605 *(4/30/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190217561446&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009




[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO - Gold - $4050 *(4/30/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140227171907&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKORV 2Bd LO IV EOY odd (148.1 K SOs) - $10,000* (5/6/08)http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290226421371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO Gold (81K SOs) - $8,200* (5/7/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270233503263&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017







[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

It appears that this thread should be called SVO-*Westin* eBay sales... since I am sure there are lots of Sheraton SVO VOIs being sold on eBay.


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## DavidnRobin

Wow - 'Top of the Line' WMH for a mere $14,500...  better hurry up with those bids... :hysterical: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-Mission-...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem






[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> *WKORV 2Bd LO IV EOY odd (148.1 K SOs) - $10,000* (5/6/08)http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290226421371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019




WOW! 148k SOs for $10k


----------



## DavidnRobin

Ken555 said:


> WOW! 148k SOs for $10k



It was an EOY, but yes...


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## DavidnRobin

*WKV 1Bd Premium - Gold (44K SO) - $3550 *(5/10/08)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110250232139&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001






[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO - Gold (81K SO) - $7100 *(5/12/08)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290228284742&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019

I think this is the lowest price yet...






[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd LO Gold - $3800 *(5/14/08)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140231177580&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004






[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO Silver, 56.3K SOs - $5100* (5/22/08)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270237854633&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 1Bd Prem - Silver - $2551 (44K SOs) * (5/24/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110254471015&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## Denise L

*SDO 2BD LO EY $4500.00 (5/27/2008)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250250954570





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## Denise L

DavidnRobin said:


> *WKV 2Bd LO - Gold (81K SO) - $7100 *(5/12/08)
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290228284742&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019
> 
> I think this is the lowest price yet...



Or this might be the lowest yet....

*WKV 2BD LO - Gold (81K SOs) - $6100.00*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=380028488848




[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

Denise L said:


> Or this might be the lowest yet....
> 
> *WKV 2BD LO - Gold (81K SOs) - $6100.00*


Looks that way.
Since they did not put Westin in the eBay Titles - my search would not catch it.  What a disservice by the broker to the seller (to not have Westin in the eBay Titles).


----------



## Troopers

Denise L said:


> Or this might be the lowest yet....
> 
> *WKV 2BD LO - Gold (81K SOs) - $6100.00*
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=380028488848



Only if Arizona was a vacation destination for us....


----------



## harzim

*"no reserve" ebay auction*

Did you see the recent ebay auction for Mission Hills?  The description says "no reserve", but the opening bid has to be $11,500.  I would call this a reserve, wouldn't you?


----------



## saluki

harzim said:


> Did you see the recent ebay auction for Mission Hills?  The description says "no reserve", but the opening bid has to be $11,500.  I would call this a reserve, wouldn't you?



I would go with "delusional".


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WMH 2Bd - Gold (Floats 22-27, 36-49) $3049 *(5/31/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140235476518&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004




[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 1Bd Premium Gold (44K SO) - $4200 *(6/2/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=360056629952&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=023





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## thinze3

Ken555 said:


> WOW! 148k SOs for $10k
> 
> .
> 
> 
> DavidnRobin said:
> 
> 
> 
> *WKORV 2Bd LO IV EOY odd (148.1 K SOs) - $10,000* (5/6/08)http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290226421371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019
Click to expand...




*At least the buyer was a Tugger!* *jjlovecub* 
.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO Silver (56.3K SO) - $3050* (6/4/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350064794893&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=022






[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## mchinsky

I paid about $27k for 148,000 staroptions on ebay at Harborside Atlantis, Phase 1 Deluxe 2 bedroom lockoff, Week 2 Fixed, with maintenance paid for the year.

Seemed like a good deal considering PHase II has worse views and no 2 bedrooms this big and they were about $45 to 50k for Platinum from the builder.


----------



## Denise L

*WKV Gold 2BD LO EY (81K SOs) -- $9100* (6/11/08)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290236268726






[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


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## luv_maui

WKORV, 1br, OV EY: $14,600, 6/11/08

http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-KAANAPAL...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem





[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## myip

*Westin Kierland $4250*

Westin Kierland $4250 - 67100 staroption 1 bedroom (small) platinum week 

http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-KIERLAND...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem






[Thanks! - Posted in sticky]


----------



## trader14

myip said:


> Westin Kierland $4250 - 67100 staroption 1 bedroom (small) platinum week



http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-KIERLAND...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


This wkv is eoy



Good catch !  I will edit the sticky - thanks! DeniseM


----------



## DeniseM

A poster asked about this so I thought I'd bump up the thread. - If you are interested in providing ebay sales data to update Owner Resources - this is the place to do it.


----------



## SDKath

At this point I would recommend not doing this thread.  Prices are so unreasobably low on eBay right now due to the economy that I think it would seriously hurt everyone's chances of resale if these freefalling prices are preserved on a TUG thread forever and ever.

My advice to those buying right now is to watch ebay for about a month and record the prices of similar units on a simple spreadsheet.  Then you can make an "educated guess" about what the going price is at a particular resort.

Just my thoughts of course.

Katherine


----------



## DavidnRobin

I would tend to disagree - the purpose was for final sales on eBay - not ones sitting out there unsold (e.g. didn't meet reserves, zero bids).  It would  be good info to track this info since it is the ONLY source of resale SVO TS prices (albeit somewhat unreliable) - outside of those here willing to share their prices (uncommon).  btw, for those reading this far - we paid ~$15K for our last (and final) one.

I was tracking WKV, WSJ, and WKORV because those the ones that were of interest to me (but as stated in the other thread) - we're topped out (+1).


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> btw, for those reading this far - we paid ~$15K for our last (and final) one.
> 
> I was tracking WKV, WSJ, and WKORV because those the ones that were of interest to me (but as stated in the other thread) - we're topped out (+1).



You said you were done three units ago?


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> You said you were done three units ago?




Not true... two units ago... 
but we are done.

The 2nd WSJ - I just couldn't pass up - it was either buy this one - or sell ours.   Two weeks in STJ/WSJ cannot be beat - especially travelling so far.

The WKV (1Bd. Plat/Prem)... is just a great value as a SVN exchanger (next year into WKORV or WPORV), for renting (twice now - easily - for ~$1K over MFs), and a great resort to stay at (why we own two weeks at WKV).

We have 11 weeks of vacation in 2009 :whoopie:


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Not true... two units ago...
> but we are done.
> 
> The 2nd WSJ - I just couldn't pass up - it was either buy this one - or sell ours.   Two weeks in STJ/WSJ cannot be beat - especially travelling so far.
> 
> The WKV (1Bd. Plat/Prem)... is just a great value as a SVN exchanger (next year into WKORV or WPORV), for renting (twice now - easily - for ~$1K over MFs), and a great resort to stay at (why we own two weeks at WKV).
> 
> We have 11 weeks of vacation in 2009 :whoopie:



I am with you, we were done too. But life sometimes will present you with an oppurtunity that you just can't refuse. 

I have the same thoghts about Hawaii. When we go back, its for two weeks next time. Its too far to travel and expensive, for 7 days.


----------



## thinze3

DavidnRobin said:


> ....We have 11 weeks of vacation in 2009 :whoopie:




WHAT??  Geez, boy I do have a ways to go yet!  
Good for y'all!  




tomandrobin said:


> I am with you, we were done too. But life sometimes will present you with an oppurtunity that you just can't refuse....



In this market, at these prices, you can never say never.


Terry


----------



## SDKath

Don't you people ever work???????   

Katherine


----------



## Fredm

Ken555 said:


> WOW! 148k SOs for $10k



There is a better deal than that on the new TUG classifieds. 
It's an annual IV at KOR North.


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> I am with you, we were done too. But life sometimes will present you with an oppurtunity that you just can't refuse.
> 
> I have the same thoghts about Hawaii. When we go back, its for two weeks next time. Its too far to travel and expensive, for 7 days.



You are right - especailly when evaluated as in $/day for the entire trip.



thinze3 said:


> WHAT??  Geez, boy I do have a ways to go yet!
> Good for y'all!
> 
> In this market, at these prices, you can never say never.
> Terry



We get an additional 6 weeks every six years (and that is next year) - otherwise 3 weeks per year.



SDKath said:


> Don't you people ever work???????
> 
> Katherine



Sometimes... but thinking, posting about and planning vacations helps me survive - the true selling point for TSing.


----------



## tomandrobin

thinze3 said:


> In this market, at these prices, you can never say never.
> 
> Terry



My Robin has said no more! (at least for a couple of years). 

The only timeshare I have been given the "Green Light" for is if disney adds a timeshare section to the Grand Floridian in WDW.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Fredm said:


> There is a better deal than that on the new TUG classifieds.
> It's an annual IV at KOR North.



Better hope that DeniseM doesn't see this post - it cuts a very fine for TUG rules.  Sorry, but it is one that I often complain about - especially after I was trying to make OF WKORV Tuggers aware that I had a potential direct exchange into WSJ that I thought was pretty good deal - but was deleted according to so-called TUG rules.  Yet... others use less direct approaches (e.g. this one) to advertise their TSs.

btw - I think (within reason) they should be allowed.

also - What a good price!  (I know someone who bought from SVO for almost 3x this amount - yikes!) but I would still buy WKV and exchange into WKORV/N unless I could only travel during the highest demand weeks in HI (like 3 of the 50 weeks)


----------



## clsmit

I should have the DH do this (see my constantly updated list of TS's....) but here are some (hope the format is OK). I have put more locations in than lots of sales of the same location.

Vistana Lakes 2BR Floating $320
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-SHERATON-VI...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Vistana Lakes 2BR LO EOY $861
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-SHERATON-VI...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Vistana Spa 2BR Deeded week 45 $501
http://cgi.ebay.com/Orlando-Florida...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

WMH Gold 2BR LO $3500
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-LOCKOFF-WES...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

WMH 2BR LO Platinum 1-21, 50-52 $5201 (this one is now ours)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-Mission-...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

SDO 1BR Floating $410 
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-DESERT...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

WKV 2BR LO EOY Gold weeks 22-27, 36-49 $5500
http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-KIERLAND...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

SMV 1BR Summer weeks 21-39 $103.50
http://cgi.ebay.com/FIVE-STAR-Shera...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

WKORV Ocean view 2BR LO $21,280.17 (sold by questionable seller)
http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-KAANAPAL...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## CanadianLawyer

*WMH and SVV Sales*

I have been watching sales of WMH and SVV units. Here are the recent transactions that are still viewable on eBay(no promises that I've got them all!):

WMH Plat 2BR LO - $4,200
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200261253044

WMH Plat 2BR LO - $5,201
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=370108615037 

WMH Gold 2BR LO - $3,500
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250320547577 

WMH Silver 2BR LO - $1,000
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300265036638

WMH Silver 2BR LO - $1,225
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110300841790

WMH Silver 2BR LO - $1,026.01
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180299276420

WMH Silver 2BR LO - $1,151
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=360105045313 

SVV Plat 2BR LO - $7,963.05
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330279305762

SVV Plat 2BR LO - $4,500
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250321251739 

SVV Odd Plat 2BR LO - $2,675
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180300660996 

SVV Plat 2BR - $4,751
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180302874859 

SVV Gold 2BR - $305 (this one I bought!  )
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=400005032874 

SVV Gold 2BR - $3,050
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=370105055121 

SVV Gold 2BR - $2,169
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260307712844 

SVV Gold 2BR – $3,754
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260305949967 

SVV EOY odd Gold 2BR - $2,325
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=390002771202

Interesting to note the range even in identical units sold at near the same time.
*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


----------



## SDKath

Many of these units were being sold by questionable sellers with either no feedback or already known troubled seller who decided to start new eBay accounts (Wanted Weeks).  I think that explains the huge difference in prices.  

Katherine


----------



## CanadianLawyer

SDKath said:


> Many of these units were being sold by questionable sellers with either no feedback or already known troubled seller who decided to start new eBay accounts (Wanted Weeks).  I think that explains the huge difference in prices.
> 
> Katherine



Kath, none of the sales I listed were offered by new eBay accounts. Some had as few as 15 transactions but most had hundreds of transactions and feedback ratings between 90% and 100%. I usually ignore offerings by zero rated sellers.

Mark


----------



## abdibile

Kath,

what does the "(almost) done" in your profile mean?

That was not there until recently, correct?

Are you on the hunt again?


----------



## SDKath

CanadianLawyer said:


> Kath, none of the sales I listed were offered by new eBay accounts. Some had as few as 15 transactions but most had hundreds of transactions and feedback ratings between 90% and 100%. I usually ignore offerings by zero rated sellers.
> 
> Mark



Well I won one of those auctions and believe me, at the time, the seller had 0 feedback.  So I KNOW it for a fact.  There were also mistakes in the ad which made the price about $3000 less than what it should be.  Good for me.  

I am almost done because I need to revise my 5* plan thanks to Starwood messing with the SO requirement.  I am not really hunting resales at this point as much as trying to find some sort of purchase opportunity from Starwood direct that won't cost me an arm and a leg.  Maybe Starwood will eventually put their weeks on eBay for me too.  :hysterical: 

Katherine


----------



## DeniseM

Thanks to those of of you who recently posted ebay sales data.

A couple of suggestions:

As you probably know, the ebay link eventually expires, so it's important to have the date and condensed version of the sale in the description.

Something like this works nicely:

*WKORV 2Bd LO IV EOY odd (148.1 K SOs)-$10,000*-(5/6/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290226421371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019

In this format, even when the ebay link expires, the date and pertinent info. are still available.

If a resort has different phases, it's helpful to have the name or number of the phase in the description, as well.

Thanks again!


----------



## CanadianLawyer

DeniseM said:


> Thanks to those of of you who recently posted ebay sales data.
> 
> A couple of suggestions:
> 
> As you probably know, the ebay link eventually expires, so it's important to have the date and condensed version of the sale in the description.
> 
> Something like this works nicely:
> 
> *WKORV 2Bd LO IV EOY odd (148.1 K SOs)-$10,000*-(5/6/08)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290226421371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019
> 
> In this format, even when the ebay link expires, the date and pertinent info. are still available.
> 
> If a resort has different phases, it's helpful to have the name or number of the phase in the description, as well.
> 
> Thanks again!



Thanks for the heads-up Denise. As soon as I get a bit of time, I will go back and fix the sales I posted before, as well as add the new ones.

Mark


----------



## CanadianLawyer

Here are the WMH and SVV sales since November 16:

WMH 2BR LO Plat week 50 (11/17/08) - $5,468.53
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200274224063

WMH 2BR LO Silver (11/18/08) - $997.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300273364021

WMH 2BR LO Silver (11/20/08) - $1205.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220311520250

WMH 2BR LO Silver (11/20/08) - $152.50   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260315717810

SVV Bella EOY Gold 2 BR 67K SO (11/19/08) - $2000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270303176842

Mark


----------



## SDKath

So when are you buying, CanadianLawyer???  Seems like those WMH Platinum weeks are just begging to be picked up by someone like you!

Katherine


----------



## CanadianLawyer

SDKath said:


> So when are you buying, CanadianLawyer???  Seems like those WMH Platinum weeks are just begging to be picked up by someone like you!
> 
> Katherine



Kath, that sounds like a challenge!

I'm not sure things have bottomed out yet. I did pick up the one gold SVV week that went very cheap on election day. I think there will be other opportunities, but I may wait until everyone gets their MF invoices.


----------



## Ken555

I was reviewing the latest few on eBay and thought I'd update this thread a bit with some current sales prices. Some friends & family are considering a purchase in the near future, so I'm trying to become familiar again with recent sale prices, as one method of indicating market value. 


WMH 2BR Silver (2/3/09) - $793.25
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260353380452

WMH 2BR EOY Gold (2/12/09) - $1,355
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290294414604

WMH 2BR EOY Gold (2/13/09) - $1,136
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220357371257



WKORV 1BR Plat Ocean View (2/3/09) - $11,802
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300289737168

WKORV-N 2BR Plat Island View (2/11/09) - $15,200 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350162405145



WLR Studio EOY Plat Plus (2/13/09) - $2,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180326728070

WKR 2BR Gold (2/11/09) - $8,025.83
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280311007994




*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

A few more... 

WKORV EOY 2Bd LO OV (2/3/09) - $12,200
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220339628538

WKORV 1Bd OV 81K SO (1/4/09) - $7,903
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350147205491

WKV 2Bd Gold 81K SO (1/11/09) - $10,100
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350149988186

WKV 2Bd Gold 81K SO (1/3/09) - $8,100
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350146662555

WKV 2Bd Gold 81K SO (12/29/08) - $6,405
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=150317434252

WSJ Studio 3314/18 37K SO (1/6/09) - $8,850
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350147216812

WSJ 3Bd 4410/30 104.1K SOs - $30,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-St-John-...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:13|39:1|240:1318




*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


----------



## DavidnRobin

WSJ 2Bd/3Ba 3328/22 81K SO (2/15/09) - $16,322
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190285666998

I had to laugh at this ad - I wonder if it will be re-listed... (although it did make me feel good about the price we just paid for week 23)

No mention of the MFs - which are >$2400 for the next 3 years.
No mention of the 3 years of back taxes that will be due at some point.
Uses stock photos (yet claim as part of their families' vacation experience) in which other units are shown - like the jacazzi tub that doesn't exist in the 2bd units.

Sellers' moniker is 'no_hassles_please' - too funny...

Appears to be the same villa on RedWeek - asking $19,200




*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


----------



## silverpen38

*SDO 1-52 EY Large 1BR $598.00*

Hi Guys,

Don't know if I'm posting this correctly, but I completed a Ebay sale on 2/13/09 for the above listed unit from vacation innovations.  Usage don't start until 2010, but that suits me just fine.  (I just finished paying our maintenance fees on our other units and taxes on my parent's home so I'm pretty tapped out anyway.)

I have been watching these weeks for a couple months now at they have been selling for between $800 and $1000.  I don't know if not being able to use it until next year was the deciding factor in my successful bid but I'm very happy.  Our goal it to get 4 weeks at this resort and spend a month there visiting the grandchildren.  This is much cheaper than renting weeks or purchasing another home.  Two down and two to go.

Diane Jones

:whoopie:


----------



## amundson

*ebay sale*



DavidnRobin said:


> WSJ 2Bd/3Ba 3328/22 81K SO (2/15/09) - $16,322
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190285666998
> 
> I had to laugh at this ad - I wonder if it will be re-listed... (although it did make me feel good about the price we just paid for week 23)
> 
> No mention of the MFs - which are >$2400 for the next 3 years.
> No mention of the 3 years of back taxes that will be due at some point.
> Uses stock photos (yet claim as part of their families' vacation experience) in which other units are shown - like the jacazzi tub that doesn't exist in the 2bd units.
> 
> Sellers' moniker is 'no_hassles_please' - too funny...
> 
> Appears to be the same villa on RedWeek - asking $19,200



I don't see the problem with this... feedback of 80 and it is 100%.  Seems authentic to me.


----------



## DavidnRobin

amundson said:


> I don't see the problem with this... feedback of 80 and it is 100%.  Seems authentic to me.



I did not intend to make it sound non-authentic, or wasn't a real seller.  It was about the info (and lack of).  As I own a 2Bd week 23+24 - I am interested in comparibles - and these are diverse at WSJ VG (more than other SVO resorts) since they are fixed weeks (eventhough claimed as float).

Most ads for WSJ have poor info - the 1st week we bought has a very misinformed ad (and at the time caused it to be a great deal - now just a good deal).

I was joking about the 'no_hassles_please' name because lack of info will lead to hassles.

The Tax Stamp will tell them that taxes have only been paid to 2005, and smart buyer (e.g. one that finds TUG) will find out that they have doubled.

There is a 3-year special assessment of almost $800+ over the MFs (~$2400 + $99 SVN fee if 1st SVO TS) - MFs not even listed.

Pictures used are stock photos - it is easy to get your own photos since it is claimed to be their family vacation place - or download others (link here on TUG with some clever searching) - photos show a jacuzzi tub - nope...


----------



## DavidnRobin

silverpen38 said:


> Don't know if I'm posting this correctly, but I completed a Ebay sale on 2/13/09 for the above listed unit from vacation innovations.



Perfect - it is good to hear about real eBay sales (and other resale purchases) since we do not know if the eBay ones ever get finalized.  Congrats - great strategy and usage as a vacation investment.

Most owners feel uncomfortable about listing the price paid for a variety of understandable reasons (and others are uncomfortable with this thread since eBay sales may not be representative )


----------



## SDKath

Great deal on your SDO!  Congrats.

Katherine


----------



## thinze3

DavidnRobin said:


> .... The Tax Stamp will tell them that taxes have only been paid to 2005, and smart buyer (e.g. one that finds TUG) will find out that they have doubled...




Just curious as to how you know this.


----------



## DavidnRobin

thinze3 said:


> Just curious as to how you know this.



Do you mean how do I know that the taxes are doubling? Because I keep up on VI news from a few sources - and the Tax Recorders Office attempted to send out Property Tax bills (illegally) last Fall that had the TS taxes doubling.  I spoke to a person at the Tax Assessors Office when I was researching the costs for buying our 2nd WSJ week recently and was told verbally what the property tax was increased to - it was briefly listed on the tax Recorders web-site.  The sellers compensated us for the back taxes (which was nice). 

It is still in the courts however (due to unfair assessments) - the USVI Gov't hasn't collected taxes since 2005.  STJ overall is getting screwed - and TS owners in the VI also since it is essentially taxation w/o representation since TS owners have no vote.

This should be in the WSJ Thread.


----------



## DavidnRobin

WKORV 1Bd - 81K SO (2/17/09) - $11,900
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110349692297




*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 2Bd LO Gold - 81K SO (2/18/09) - $6,200
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300292907001

This is a drop of about $2K compared to around 1 year ago.




*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 2Bd LO Platinum - 148.1K SO (2/24/09) - $17,590
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=310123858418
{coming down...}






*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 1Bd Deluxe (small) - 67.1K SO (2/28/09) - $5,101
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170304570831

WKV 2Bd LO Platinum - 148.1K SO (2/28/09) - $15,712
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270347500725
{...and down...}





*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

WKORV 2Bd LO (Premium-small) IV - 148.1K SO (3/3/09) - $17,200
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260367321397

Harborside 2Bd LO (Platinum - Phase I) - 148.1K SO (3/3/09) - $20,100
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110353964312

WSJ 2Bd/3Ba (Virgin Grand) Week 33, Unit 3310 - 81K SO (3/3/09) - $12,400
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280316608869

WMH 2Bd LO EOY-odd Gold (3/3/09) - $680
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260367793871



*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 2Bd LO Gold - 81K SO - (3/7/09) - $5,391
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320346399777




*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> WKV 1Bd Deluxe (small) - 67.1K SO (2/28/09) - $5,101
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170304570831



This may have been a fraudulent seller - I received an email from eBay about this seller and the closed ad has been removed.

Buyer beware on eBay...


----------



## DavidnRobin

WKV 2Bd LO - Gold - 81K SO (3/11/09) - $6,202
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300298280648




*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 1Bd Premium - Silver - 30.5K SO (3/16/09) - $1,750
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320349069351




*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

WKORV 2Bd LO (IV - Deluxe) - 148.1K SO (3/18/09) - $18,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300299828392



*
Posted to sticky - THANKS!*


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## DavidnRobin

A bit of a tangent for this thread - but not really...

I have been noticing more and more real Owners (not PCCs) attempting to sell their units on eBay - where they are asking for what they believe to be reasonable prices based on what they paid and were probably told by SVO salespeople, but are far above the real selling prices (on eBay or other sites).  A WKORV OF for $56K, WKORVs for $30-35K, WPORVs for $35-40K, WSJ (low) for $30K, WKV (67.1K SO) for $15K.  I really feel bad for these folks when/if they discovery the awful truth.


----------



## LisaRex

Check out Tug and Redweek ads. There are similar listings right below listings for the exact same season/view for 50% less.  I wonder why they bother listing it.


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## Twinkstarr

DavidnRobin said:


> A bit of a tangent for this thread - but not really...
> 
> I have been noticing more and more real Owners (not PCCs) attempting to sell their units on eBay - where they are asking for what they believe to be reasonable prices based on what they paid and were probably told by SVO salespeople, but are far above the real selling prices (on eBay or other sites).  A WKORV OF for $56K, WKORVs for $30-35K, WPORVs for $35-40K, WSJ (low) for $30K, WKV (67.1K SO) for $15K.  I really feel bad for these folks when/if they discovery the awful truth.



I have noticed that too, as I've set up to get an email on new Westins that show up. I've seen the big buck WKORV showing up recently and shake my head.


----------



## DavidnRobin

WSJ studio (week 27,unit 3213) 37K SO - $6205 (3/21/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280321716461
had incorrect info in auction
STJ carnival week



*
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## DavidnRobin

WMH 2Bd LO (Silver) - EOY even - $150 (3/26/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=370175382238




*
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## DavidnRobin

WKORVN 2Bd LO IV - 148.1K SO - $15,600 (4/2/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350183395600

I had a work-friend who paid~$48K from Starwood for this same unit-type about 2 years ago. Needless to say - I will not be mentioning this to them (they did not heed my warning to rescind and buy resale since they wanted the SPs - I hope they got a lot of value from those SPs...).




*
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## thomasro3

DavidnRobin said:


> WKORVN 2Bd LO IV - 148.1K SO - $15,600 (4/2/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350183395600
> 
> I had a work-friend who paid~$48K from Starwood for this same unit-type about 2 years ago. Needless to say - I will not be mentioning this to them (they did not heed my warning to rescind and buy resale since they wanted the SPs - I hope they got a lot of value from those SPs...).



I bought one EOY IV WKORV for 10k from the developer .  I think the orignial purchase EOY WKORV was 19k?  mine was not North. This was back in 2005 though.  Then I purchsed an annual and deluxe with better views.

Was this an annual?  Maintenance fees look like it is. You just never know.


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 2Bd LO Gold (81K SO) - $4,250 (4/6/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180343257158

I believe this is the lowest eBay price for this unit-type at WKV
(close to a $4K drop from a year ago)

WKORV 2Bd LO Deluxe IV or OV? (148.1K SO) - $16,100 (4/5/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=130297034881
Based on MFs - this unit is likely a Deluxe unit - auction did not state whether is is an IV or OV units (incredibly bad not to include this info)





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## DavidnRobin

WSJ 1Bd - Week 25 (#3425/Sat-Sat) - (44K SO) - $7600
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300305023726

Auction had SOs incorrectly listed as 51.7K - typical misinfo from this TS broker (even after sending email about this error - it was not corrected)



*
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## grgs

DavidnRobin said:


> WKORV 2Bd LO Deluxe IV or OV? (148.1K SO) - $16,100 (4/5/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=130297034881
> Based on MFs - this unit is likely a Deluxe unit - auction did not state whether is is an IV or OV units (incredibly bad not to include this info)



Don't the Deluxe units only come in IV or OF?  I'm assuming IV for my spreadsheet!

Glorian


----------



## LisaRex

grgs said:


> Don't the Deluxe units only come in IV or OF?  I'm assuming IV for my spreadsheet!
> 
> Glorian



No, apparently the upper floors of Bldg 4 (units 01/03) are coded OV deluxe.

If the owner hasn't seen a map, he may be sorely disappointed because his "ocean view" first overlooks a parking lot.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77371


----------



## DavidnRobin

B4 has both IV and OV - the OVs are the ones overlooking the public beach )over the parking lot)


----------



## DavidnRobin

catching up...

WMH 2Bd LO - Silver - $150 (4/9/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180342904648
{dodgy eBay seller - I believe this is a relist}

WSJ -1Bd - week 26 - $7550 (4/15/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300307097082
{I believe I have seen this one before}

WMH 2Bd - Plat - $6100 (4/16/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300306799048




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## DavidnRobin

WSJ 1Bd, Villa 3425, Week 27 (4th July week) - $8,501 (4/22/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300308244770
(seller lowered reserve)


WKORV 2Bd LO IV Dlx (148.1K SO) - $14,302 (4/21/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350190485424





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## DavidnRobin

WKV 2Bd LO - Gold (81K SO) -$6301 (4/27/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350192879660





*
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## DavidnRobin

WKV 2Bd LO Silver EOYe (56.3K SO) - $2100 (4/30/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220401897333

WKV 1Bd Dlx/small Plat. EOYo (67.1K SO) - $1997 (4/28/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110381131580



*
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## thinze3

SDO 2BR LO annual (1-52) - $1,525 (4/30/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160330468744

I sure wanted to nibble of this, but didn't. 




*
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## DavidnRobin

thinze3 said:


> SDO 2BR LO annual (1-52) - $1,525 (4/30/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160330468744
> 
> I sure wanted to nibble of this, but didn't.



There seems to be quite a bit of SDO weeks on eBay - make sure you look at the current eBay sales link on Owner Resourses sticky - and maybe check other search terms not captured.


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## DavidnRobin

WSJ Studio villa 3213 week 27 (37K SO) - $6350 (5/1/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280336820351

4th of July week
2009 MFs included in bid (incl special assessment)



*
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## thinze3

DavidnRobin said:


> There seems to be quite a bit of SDO weeks on eBay - make sure you look at the current eBay sales link on Owner Resourses sticky - and maybe check other search terms not captured.





I don't see any SDO sales within the last year listed on the sticky.


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## DavidnRobin

As I wrote a while ago - I am only tracking WKV, WSJ, WKORV/N (and a few others on occausion) for my own interest - right now the listings have dropped (as normal) relatively.  I am interested really over-time sales and not short term.  If anyone else wants to contribute feel free.

I am not looking unless I can find a 1Bd WKV (P/P) for a killer bargain (purely for renting or future use...), but should broaden my search since nodge found one a while back that was listed poorly.

The completed and ongoing eBay sales that is listed in the Owner Resources shows most of the SVO sales (unless seller lists incorrectly - which are often the best deals) but you have to click on and go to eBay (the search terms are set).  The completed only go back 30 days.  Lots of sales on WMH, SDO, SVV, and SVR - some very cheap.


----------



## DeniseM

Just to clarify David's post - everything that is in the ebay list in Owner Resources gets pulled from this thread and David is the biggest producer.  (Thanks Dave!!!)      If you like to search ebay, feel free to post your SW finds here.  Please see this post for the preferred format.

Thanks!


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 1Bd Prem/Gold (44K SO) - $2160 (5/4/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180351344794

wow-o-wow....
seller eBay=0
no SOs listed
somewhat confusing ad (e.g. discussed 2Bd)
sounded like they wanted payment to them (no PayPal?) - eventhough seller responded that they use a respectable Title Co. - but why not state that?

? auction stated MFs paid for 2009 - usage available in 2009 - not stated in auction was if this was to be reimbursed?  if not - what a deal!

winner likely 'sniped' at end - how do I know...?  I put a bid in with 5 sec to go at $1803 - it was at $1575 - with immediate multiple bids.  I was okay with ending up with it for that price - and since an eBay TS auction is not a contract to buy... (which I would have if auction was on the up&up (eBay seller=0) Still... what a great price.

Be careful seller (and buying) on eBay - do not do yourself a disservice in making eBay seller auction mistakes if you ever plan on selling on eBay.  If I had time - I would write a thread on this for SVO TSs is I had time (someday?)  If you cannot do this correctly - get a good broker (in Scottsdale - SmartChoice does a great job since they are located there - NOT to say there are not others that would do fine -I would use SC for TSs located there... IMO only YMMV) and sell cheap (in this case - they still would have made more - most likely - even with the broker comission).

sorry - trying to be careful what I say here... since seller/buyer beware... YMMV - all of the above is open for argument and IMO IMO IMO

added: btw - I used the eBay sales thread to look at many eBay prices for WKV to place a bid - I knew I underbid by alot, but you never know...


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## clsmit

DavidnRobin said:


> WKV 1Bd Prem/Gold (44K SO) - $2160 (5/4/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180351344794





Looks like it was removed or cancelled? What's the next chapter in the story?


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## DavidnRobin

clsmit said:


> Looks like it was removed or cancelled? What's the next chapter in the story?



DM - based on this - do not put this WKV sale in the stickie... tx

Interesting - I have seen this for ongoing auctions, but never for a completed auction - maybe they decided to bail since this VOI went pretty cheaply - or they were frauds (see thread on main buying page on TUG about the name choice of their TS company...)
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97039


As often stated here - be careful when buying on eBay - or believing every auction is correct and finalized - DO NOT send money directly to seller - only to a reputable Title Co - otherwise - bail...  {also true for non-eBay sales...}

I see many auctions that are completed - only to have an identical VOI show up again.

That was my plan if my bid was successful (no $ directly to seller...).


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 2Bd LO (81K SO) - $6300 (5/6/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270382130646


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## DavidnRobin

WKORV 2Bd LO IV Dlx (148.1K SO) - $15,101 (5/10/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260405766262

First use 2010
eBay seller had no rating (0)


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## Transit

SPB 1 bed annual (9-43,47)- $405.00 (05/09/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338830557


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## vacationtime1

WKV 1 bd Deluxe (small side) 67.1K SO's; $4,735; 5/12/09
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110387204710


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## catlady

Hi 

I've been tracking Sheraton Desert Oasis SDO for the last few weeks and have these to add if it's any use to anyone!

SDO 1 bed deluxe Annual starts 2010 (1-21, 50-52) - $721.00 (5/12/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120415807072

SDo 1 bed deluxe EOY even starts 2010 1-52 floating - $511.00 (5/12/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250418857531

SDO 1bed standard EOY odd starting 09 1-52 floating- $99.00 (5/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=250419451496

SDO 1bed Deluxe EOY even starting 2010 1-52 floating- $425.00 (5/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350198527549

Where are all the 2 beds?


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## catlady

Also these for SBP (Sheraton Broadway Plantation),

SBP 1 bed annual use starts 09 (9-43 & 47) - $405.00 (05/10/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200338830557

SBP 2bed LO EOY odd starts 2011 99-43 & 47- $203.50 (05/09/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200338830557


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## thinze3

catlady said:


> Hi
> 
> I've been tracking Sheraton Desert Oasis SDO for the last few weeks and have these to add if it's any use to anyone!
> .....
> Where are all the 2 beds?



They don't come around as often. I have been watching as well.
As posted above, here's the last one I saw.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160330468744


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## DavidnRobin

Westin Lagunamar - not seen often (yet)
*WLR 1Bd Gold+, EOYo - $2025 (5/13/09)*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180354324658

eBay seller(s): snownsun4ever is representative of Tarpey Bros. TS business out of Bozeman MT (TS broker and Title Co {Resort Closings Inc.} that has to be used for this transaction)


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## DavidnRobin

WKORV 1Bd OV (81K SO) - $9202 (5/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290315166791

2009 usage
These were selling for $15-16K resale not too long ago.


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## rickandcindy23

Those two are the same link.  Do you have the link to the SBP 2 bed EOY Odd?



catlady said:


> Also these for SBP (Sheraton Broadway Plantation),
> 
> SBP 1 bed annual use starts 09 (9-43 & 47) - $405.00 (05/10/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200338830557
> 
> SBP 2bed LO EOY odd starts 2011 99-43 & 47- $203.50 (05/09/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200338830557


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## catlady

Whoops! sorry wrong link, my right hand doesn't know what my left is doing!!

Here's what it should have been!


SBP 2bed LO EOY odd starts 2011 99-43 & 47- $203.50 (05/09/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270383227549


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## malyons

catlady said:


> Whoops! sorry wrong link, my right hand doesn't know what my left is doing!!
> 
> Here's what it should have been!
> 
> 
> SBP 2bed LO EOY odd starts 2011 99-43 & 47- $203.50 (05/09/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270383227549



interesting....I wonder if the voluntary resorts resale prices will drop even more as people discover the new policy on retro-ing a unit into SVN


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## DavidnRobin

WKV 1Bd Premium (44K SO) - $2750 (5/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180354380622

I would deem this as suspect because auction looks very similar to listing discussed in posts 187-189 (the auction was removed by eBay).
(warning: never send money directly to seller - only to reputable Title Co)


----------



## catlady

> interesting....I wonder if the voluntary resorts resale prices will drop even more as people discover the new policy on retro-ing a unit into SVN



Sorry, could you explain what this means please? Many thanks


----------



## DavidnRobin

catlady said:


> Sorry, could you explain what this means please? Many thanks



Perhaps better in the thread that discusses this issue (vs. this eBay sales thread)
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97109


----------



## Transit

malyons said:


> interesting....I wonder if the voluntary resorts resale prices will drop even more as people discover the new policy on retro-ing a unit into SVN



I picked up the 1 bed plat SBP for 405 .I never had any thoughts of retroing. It's just for trading.SVO rules change like the weather.


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## catlady

Really wanted to go for this but what I'd read about the seller on TUG (redweeks4less) put me off. 

SDO 2 bed LO Annual floating 1-52 - $2,551 - (05/19/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350200736581


Just noticed this has been relisted?


----------



## thinze3

catlady said:


> Really wanted to go for this but what I'd read about the seller on TUG (redweeks4less) put me off.
> 
> SDO 2 bed LO Annual floating 1-52 - $2,551 - (05/19/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350200736581
> 
> 
> Just noticed this has been relisted?



This auction went for about $1000 more than a similar unit last month.


----------



## vacationtime1

catlady said:


> Really wanted to go for this but what I'd read about the seller on TUG (redweeks4less) put me off.
> 
> SDO 2 bed LO Annual floating 1-52 - $2,551 - (05/19/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350200736581
> 
> 
> Just noticed this has been relisted?



No, it shows as a different unit.  But unfortunately, the same seller.


----------



## catlady

Went for much less than the last one........I guess another neg didn't help!


SDO 2bed LO Annual floating 1-52 - $1776.01 (5/26/09)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350203645338


----------



## heckp

catlady said:


> Went for much less than the last one........I guess another neg didn't help!
> 
> 
> SDO 2bed LO Annual floating 1-52 - $1776.01 (5/26/09)
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350203645338



I think it has a lot to do with the seller's and closing company's reputation.


----------



## vacationtime1

heckp said:


> I think it has a lot to do with the seller's and closing company's reputation.



I don't think so.  eBay prices for the same resort vary greatly even on auctions closing within a couple of days of each other. I have watched lots of eBay auctions for Waiohai units (I own there) and there is little rhyme or reason about the closing prices.   

Not all bidders are timeshare nerds like many of us are, and I suspect that very few have even considered let alone understand the issues surrounding unreliable sellers, inaccurate descriptions, and captive closing companies.

But enough digression.


----------



## vacationtime1

Two bedroom SDO annual 1-52 (6/21/2009):  $1,577.67

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270407671714

Identical units have recently sold for $1,375, $2,114, and $2,136, all within the past four weeks, not in this sequence.  Unfortunately, I did not keep the auction numbers


----------



## K2Quick

vacationtime1 said:


> Two bedroom SDO annual 1-52 (6/21/2009):  $1,577.67
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270407671714
> 
> Identical units have recently sold for $1,375, $2,114, and $2,136, all within the past four weeks, not in this sequence.  Unfortunately, I did not keep the auction numbers



I've been posting the sales history for SDO ebay sales in the resort database because I was researching buying there (auction numbers are included there):

http://www.tug2.com/RnR/TabSalesHistory.aspx?Tab=S&ResortGUID=cc44b540-b126-4303-b893-736b3455fb74


----------



## FlyKaesan

For trading purposes, isn't it better to buy SBP (less expansive) and reserve summer week than buying SDO (higher price) and try to reserve spring training week?


----------



## Redrosesix

I'm following SVR on eBay.  Could somebody tell me if this is the right place to post, and if I'm doing it right?

*SVR  Fountains I 2 Bd prime weeks - $455.00* - (5/18/2009)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270389287978


----------



## DeniseM

This IS the right place - thanks!  

A couple of suggestions:

As you probably know, the ebay link eventually expires, so it's important to have the date and condensed version of the sale in the description.

Something like this works nicely:

*WKORV 2Bd LO IV EOY odd (148.1 K SOs)-$10,000*-(5/6/08)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290226421371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019

In this format, even when the ebay link expires, the date and pertinent info. are still available.

If a resort has different phases, it's helpful to have the name or number of the phase in the description, as well.

Thanks again!


----------



## Redrosesix

Thanks Denise.  I'll keep posting them, then.  I included auctions which closed without any bids if the starting bid was low.

*SVR Lakes 2Bd High - $631.00 -* (07/07/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290328060283

*SVR Lakes 1Bd EOY - $97.00 (0 bids) *- (07/09/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE-Deed_W0QQitemZ200358701966QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea64f2b8e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Lakes 2BdLO EOY - $199.00* - (07/14/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-LOCKOFF-SHERATON-VISTANA-LAKES-ORLANDO-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ290329778906QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item439900dada&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Springs 2Bd Wk. 50 - $76.00* - (07/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300328892367

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk. 3 - $1.00 (0 bids)* - (07/02/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-DISNEY-ORLANDO-FLORIDA-TIMESHARE-DEED_W0QQitemZ270415465333QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item3ef6048b75&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk. 39 - $97.00* - (07/03/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-BR-Sheraton-Vistana-RED-WEEK-Florida-TIMESHARE-Deed_W0QQitemZ270415010131QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item3ef5fd9953&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2 Bd Wk. 49 - $1.00* - (07/03/03)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200357711827QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6400fd3&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2 Bd Wk. 41 - $1.00* -  (07/07/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200359056689QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6549531&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2 Bd Wk. 45 - $102.50* - (07/11/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200360408420QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6693564&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk 3 - $1.00 (0 bids) * - (07/12/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-DISNEY-ORLANDO-FLORIDA-TIMESHARE-DEED_W0QQitemZ270420230343QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item3ef64d40c7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk. 34 - $1.00 (0 bids)* - (07/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200360410979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6693f63&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk. 49 - $1.00 * - (07/14/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200361250026QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6760cea&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk. 39 - $1.00* - (07/14/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BD-SHERATON-VISTANA-ORLANDO-DISNEY-FLORIDA-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ220448932982QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item3353c7c476&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk. 12 - $1.00 (0 bids)* - (07/15/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200361395008QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6784340&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Falls 2Bd Wk. 44 - $1.00 (0 bids, 1/2 MF for 09 paid)* - (07/05/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-FALLS-ORLANDO-FLORIDA-DISNEY-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ220442869610QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item33536b3f6a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Falls 2Bd Wk. 44 - $202.50 (2009 MF's paid) * - (07/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-FALLS-ORLANDO-FLORIDA-DISNEY-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ220448418524QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item3353bfeadc&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Cascades 1Bd - $63.00 (Seller paid closing) * - (07/01/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-Disney-5-STAR-Orlando-TIMESHARE-DEED_W0QQitemZ360165711584QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item53db8c9ee0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Cascades 2Bd - $322.00* - (07/09/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Bedroom-SHERATON-Disney-FLOAT-RED-WEEK-Timeshare-DEED_W0QQitemZ310152817412QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item48368c6b04&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Cascades 1Bd - $167.09* - (07/12/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-Disney-FIVE-STAR-Florida-ORLANDO-Timeshare_W0QQitemZ200360413101QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea66947ad&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Cascades 2Bd - $98.00* - (07/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Bedroom-SHERATON-Disney-FLOAT-RED-WEEK-Timeshare-DEED_W0QQitemZ310153669006QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item483699698e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Cascades 2Bd Prime - $1901.50* - (07/15/09) * this auction was for 2 weeks
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-Sheraton-Vistana-Cascades-Timeshare-Orlando-Florida_W0QQitemZ390066414100QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item5ad1c52214&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A2|294%3A50

*SVR Courts 2Bd Wk. 35 - $1.00 (0 bids, 2009 MF's paid) *- (07/08/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-DISNEY-ORLANDO-FLORIDA-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ250452943962QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item3a5028a45a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Courts 2Bd Wk. 1 - $51.00* - (07/07/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vistana-Disney-Florida-5-Star-2-Bedroom-RED-Timeshare_W0QQitemZ270418427313QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item3ef631bdb1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Courts 2Bd Wk. 35 - $1.00 (0 bids, 2009 MF's paid) * - (07/13/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-DISNEY-ORLANDO-FLORIDA-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ250459438839QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item3a508bbef7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Courts 2Bd Wk. 49 - $242.50 (2009 MF's paid) * - (07/14/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vistana-Disney-Florida-5-Star-2-Bedroom-RED-Timeshare_W0QQitemZ300328260767QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item45ecf5949f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Fountains II 2Bd EEY Prime - $304.99* - (07/03/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sheraton-Vistana-Fountains-II-Orlando-FL_W0QQitemZ310152357191QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4836856547&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A15|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


----------



## DeniseM

Now you are going to make me do some work....   

Actually, I need to catch up in transferring data to the sticky, anyway!


----------



## Redrosesix

LOL  I've been seeing a lot of posts recently about people wanting to pay too much for SVR -- I know there are some listed in the marketplace, but even those don't truly reflect the prices that SVR is actually selling for these days, esp. the ones that got no bids when the starting price was $1.

BTW, thanks for doing this thread -- it will help me in my research too 

One more:
*SVR Courts 2 Bd Wk. 12 - $1.00 (0 bids) * - (07/15/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200361395008QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6784340&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A13|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


----------



## Redrosesix

I think I'm starting to see a trend here -- some sellers get much higher prices, some can't seem to sell anything

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk. 18 - $415.00* - (07/17/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sheraton-Vistana-Timeshare_W0QQitemZ320396423495QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4a991d7147&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A13|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


----------



## Redrosesix

duplicate post - sorry


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## Redrosesix

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk.34 - $10.50* - (07/20/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200363100757QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6924a55&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A13|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


----------



## Redrosesix

*SVR Spas 2Bd Wk. 6 (53K RCI pts) - $172. 51* - (07/22/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/RCI-Points-SHERATON-Disney-5-STAR-2BR-Orlando-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ110414932467QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item19b53e29f3&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A13|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Cascades 2Bd - $1425.00 (2009 MF's paid) * - (07/22/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vistana-Disney-Florida-5-Star-2-Bedroom-RED-Timeshare_W0QQitemZ380139378419QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item58821296f3&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A13|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

*SVR Falls 2Bd Wk.45 - $1.25 (2009 MF's paid) *- (07/21/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-Disney-5-STAR-2-BR-Orlando-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ360171441285QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item53dbe40c85&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A13|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


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## DeniseM

Did you notice that TUG is not abbreviating (parsing) the ebay links for you?  

To fix that, the next time you post (anything) scroll down below the message window and click on *Automatically parse links in text*.  That should take care of it.


----------



## Redrosesix

DeniseM said:


> Did you notice that TUG is not abbreviating (parsing) the ebay links for you?
> 
> To fix that, the next time you post (anything) scroll down below the message window and click on *Automatically parse links in text*.  That should take care of it.



Funny, I was just trying to figure that out.  

Thanks.


----------



## Redrosesix

*SVR Courts 2Bd Wk. 12 - $364.09 (use and MF's beginning 2010)* - (07/22/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200363729597QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea69be2bd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A13|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Sorry, Denise -- the links still aren't parsing -- I'm obviously doing something wrong.


----------



## DeniseM

It's not really a problem, when I move them they will parse automatically.


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## Redrosesix

DeniseM said:


> It's not really a problem, when I move them they will parse automatically.



Thanks Denise -- I do have the box checked, but they're still not parsing.  I'll keep adding to the list. BTW, have you noticed that there haven't been any Fountains weeks since May (figures, it's the one I'm looking for).  Any thoughts on why that might be?

*SVR Falls 2Bd Wk.45 - $1.00 (0 bids, MF's and use begin 2010)* - (07/28/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-VISTANA-Disney-5-STAR-2-BR-Orlando-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ110417059441QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item19b55e9e71&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

*SVR Spas 2 Bd Wk.49 - $1.00 (0 bid, MF's and use begin 2009)* - (07/28/09)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-DISNEY-Sheraton-Vistana-5-STAR-Red-Week-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ200366226118QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item2ea6c1fac6&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


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## DeniseM

*$4,999 WKORV 2bdm. EOY Deluxe IV*

I can't believe that this went for $5K!

WKORV 2bdm. EOY Deluxe IV 9/22/09 $4,999 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_9695wt_909


----------



## Ken555

DeniseM said:


> I can't believe that this went for $5K!



Wow! A new low. An unbelievable low. At this price, it may be worth paying more MFs and dealing with special assessments, etc. Somehow I think this is an anomaly.

BTW, did you notice that the image the seller used was for the Deluxe units?


----------



## DeniseM

Yes - I listed it as a Deluxe unit in my post, but I'm not sure if it is or not.  They listed it as UNIT SIZE:	1,550 Square Feet, which is deluxe, but I am sure the MF was off.  The phrase "ocean view possible," also hints at a deluxe unit.


----------



## Ken555

Another couple of auctions to watch...

WKORV 1 Bed - buyout at $6789

WKORV 2 Bed Deluxe (Building 4) - buyout at $16,900


----------



## DeniseM

Ken!  Are you _watching_ WKORV auctions?


----------



## Ken555

DeniseM said:


> Ken!  Are you _watching_ WKORV auctions?



LOL - no. I am definitely not in the market for more weeks. I'm scheduling a trip to Africa for next year and it's going to be difficult to use the weeks I have already, much less all the SPG points I try to use each year. I think I have the optimal number of weeks for me, though depending on how the II trading ends up I may give away my SVR weeks and get something else. 

I do have friends who are considering a purchase so look around now and then (they're not in a rush)... but even they aren't serious about Maui. I'm just as amazed at the prices as you are. I would normally think they would be lower in November and December, but I just don't see how they could be much less than than are now. I'm hoping these are simply signs of the times and are the exceptions.


----------



## DeniseM

Ken555 said:


> it's going to be difficult to use the weeks I have already, much less all the SPG points I try to use each year.



I'm so sorry for your troubles...  Just remember that unpaid TUG Mod's accept tips....


----------



## apples23

*Ebay*

Strange thing about the WKORV 1 bdrm auction is that the seller lists it as an annual, then states near the bottom that it's an even year usage....but is asking for 2009 mf?


----------



## DeniseM

apples23 said:


> Strange thing about the WKORV 1 bdrm auction is that the seller lists it as an annual, then states near the bottom that it's an even year usage....but is asking for 2009 mf?



There are MF every year, for an every other year deed.  1/2 the MF is paid in 2009 and half is paid in 2010, and the total pays for the 2010 usage.

This is what the Ad says:

_Bi-Annual Deeded Property, Does not Expires 
Bi-Annual Even Year Usage WEEKS: 1-52(Floating); - Friday, Saturday, Sunday Check-In/Out 
An Interval International Affiliated Resort 
Maintenance Fees to be Paid Annually are $946.51 
Usage starts 2010. A guest reservation can be made for you at auction's end to ensure 2010 usage. 
_


----------



## apples23

*WKORV Ebay*



DeniseM said:


> There are MF every year, for an every other year deed.  1/2 the MF is paid in 2009 and half is paid in 2010, and the total pays for the 2010 usage.
> 
> This is what the Ad says:
> 
> _Bi-Annual Deeded Property, Does not Expires
> Bi-Annual Even Year Usage WEEKS: 1-52(Floating); - Friday, Saturday, Sunday Check-In/Out
> An Interval International Affiliated Resort
> Maintenance Fees to be Paid Annually are $946.51
> Usage starts 2010. A guest reservation can be made for you at auction's end to ensure 2010 usage.
> _



The 1 bdrm listing stated an annual fee of $1684 for an EOY unit (even year), with the first mf due for 2009.

I just emailed the seller and they corrected the listing.  It is in fact an annual usage.  The seller also agreed to bank the 09 week and give me first  usage in 2010 if I purchase it.  I might bite here.  I've wanted a WKORV from the beginning here, and $6700 for an annual 1 bdrm seems like a steal...especially if I dont have to pay the MF this side of the year.

My hesitation is this new tax assessment.  Does anyone know what the fee increase will be on the 1 bdrm units?  Its at $1684 now...is that inclusive?


----------



## DeniseM

apples23 said:


> The 1 bdrm listing stated an annual fee of $1684 for an EOY unit (even year), with the first mf due for 2009.



I'm sorry - I thought you were talking about my original post.



> My hesitation is this new tax assessment.  Does anyone know what the fee increase will be on the 1 bdrm units?  Its at $1684 now...is that inclusive?




No one know - the quoted MF would have been from last year.  The 2010 MF bills won't be out until Nov. - Dec.  I would expect the MF to go up 10% or more + the tax increase of $200 or more.


----------



## apples23

Yikes...I could be look at an annual fee of $2000 ish on a 1 bdrm?

I just did the buy it now on the auction at $6700...first question is whether or not this is a good price given the current situation with the resort?

Im definitely having 2nd thoughts on this one.


----------



## Ken555

apples23 said:


> Yikes...I could be look at an annual fee of $2000 ish on a 1 bdrm?
> 
> I just did the buy it now on the auction at $6700...first question is whether or not this is a good price given the current situation with the resort?
> 
> Im definitely having 2nd thoughts on this one.



Is it really an Ocean View unit, or IV? I don't like that it said "possible ocean view" in the description.

Either way, I have to think that $6798 is a great price for a 1 bed unit there. And yeah... the MF is *expensive. *And, it will only go up.

Keep in mind that t/s sales on eBay aren't binding (though I don't know if that's also true with buy it now purchases). Good luck with your decision.


----------



## apples23

Its not binding....there was a little msg when I hit the buy it now button saying that it's not binding, and that it just means that im interested in exploring a deal.

Ill call SVO re: the view....and IV would kill it for me.


----------



## DeniseM

apples23 said:


> Its not binding....there was a little msg when I hit the buy it now button saying that it's not binding, and that it just means that im interested in exploring a deal.
> 
> Ill call SVO re: the view....and IV would kill it for me.



Do you have the deeded unit number?  (I'm curious about what you are going to ask SVO?)


----------



## apples23

Cant Starwood tell me if its OV or IV if I give them the contract #?


----------



## DeniseM

apples23 said:


> Cant Starwood tell me if its OV or IV if I give them the contract #?



I don't know if they will - the contract info. is confidential owner info.  If you have the deeded unit number, they should.  Did the seller send you their contract number?


----------



## apples23

The broker provided me with the contract #, and SVO verified that it is an Oceanview unit and that there are no owning balances on the unit.

Still on the fence whether to move forward...$6700 really seems like a no brainer price...but that annual fee with the possible assessment is really making me flinch.


----------



## DavidnRobin

not intended to be nit-picky - but this thread was intended for closed eBay auctions... (due to the potential of violating TUG advertising rules)

keeping in mind - just because they closed does not mean they were successfully completed.


----------



## K2Quick

SDO Two Bed Annual 1-52 closed at $2,025:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350259245390&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

This is the first to close above $2k in a while.


----------



## DanCali

K2Quick said:


> SDO Two Bed Annual 1-52 closed at $2,025:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350259245390&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> This is the first to close above $2k in a while.



Is this one that can be requalified for $148K Staroptions?


----------



## tschwa2

DannyM said:


> Is this one that can be requalified for $148K Staroptions?



No and it was sold by Redweeks4less.  Not a company with a stellar reputation.


----------



## DeniseM

DannyM said:


> Is this one that can be requalified for $148K Staroptions?



At SDO, only the weeks deed Plat can be requalified for 148K SO's.


----------



## Stefa

K2Quick said:


> SDO Two Bed Annual 1-52 closed at $2,025:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350259245390&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> This is the first to close above $2k in a while.



This is why it is a good idea to decide what you are willing to pay well before the auction ends.   It sounds like one or two bidders got carried away here.


----------



## thinze3

*Very tempting indeed.*

Boy this was a dandy. Just a little too much talk about the high taxes in Maui.  

WKORV annual 2BR (standard) Oceanview for *$18,500*.

Getting close to Kierland prices.


----------



## clsmit

thinze3 said:


> Boy this was a dandy. Just a little too much talk about the high taxes in Maui.
> 
> WKORV annual 2BR (standard) Oceanview for *$18,500*.
> 
> Getting close to Kierland prices.



This is the lowest I've seen for WKORV. The DH wanted to get this one real bad (like we need another one!!! :annoyed: ) and I had to tell him to back away from the keyboard. Very emphatically.


----------



## SDKath

Speaking of WKV, here is one that just closed on eBay yesterday, and is the lowest price I have ever seen at $15,100.  Platinum 2br LO...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140350686694&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT

Katherine


----------



## vacationtime1

SDKath said:


> Speaking of WKV, here is one that just closed on eBay yesterday, and is the lowest price I have ever seen at $15,100.  Platinum 2br LO...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140350686694&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT
> 
> Katherine



Yeah, but the seller was redweek4less.  That, and its not-so-lofty eBay feedback rating of 94.7% (including 2 negatives out of 24 transactions within the past month), might have been enough to scare away even non-Tuggers.

eBay has a new seller rating or certificate: "Top Rated Seller", complete with medal and ribbons posted next to the sellers' name on listings.  How eBay could permit a system that would permit a seller with a 94.7% feedback rating to display any type of commendation is a bit scary.


----------



## SDKath

vacationtime1 said:


> Yeah, but the seller was redweek4less.  That, and its not-so-lofty eBay feedback rating of 94.7% (including 2 negatives out of 24 transactions within the past month), might have been enough to scare away even non-Tuggers.
> 
> eBay has a new seller rating or certificate: "Top Rated Seller", complete with medal and ribbons posted next to the sellers' name on listings.  How eBay could permit a system that would permit a seller with a 94.7% feedback rating to display any type of commendation is a bit scary.



I purchased 3 of my resale weeks from redweek4less with absolutely no problems.  Many of the TS sellers don't have perfect feedback.  Not saying to ignore feedback, but I don't think you can attribute a $5000 price drop to a feedback of 95%.

Katherine


----------



## PamMo

How about Harborside Atlantis (2BR Annual - Wk 8 - 148,100 Staroptions)  that sold for *$12,988 *on eBay yesterday!!     These prices are unbelievable.


----------



## Troopers

Time to go shopping....


----------



## tomandrobin

PamMo said:


> How about Harborside Atlantis (2BR Annual - Wk 8 - 148,100 Staroptions)  that sold for *$12,988 *on eBay yesterday!!     These prices are unbelievable.



Holy Cow!!!!  

That is ridiculously low!


----------



## thinze3

PamMo said:


> How about Harborside Atlantis (2BR Annual - Wk 8 - 148,100 Staroptions)  that sold for *$12,988 *on eBay yesterday!!     These prices are unbelievable.



At double the annual fees of Kierland, I can understand why.


----------



## DanCali

PamMo said:


> How about Harborside Atlantis (2BR Annual - Wk 8 - 148,100 Staroptions)  that sold for *$12,988 *on eBay yesterday!!     These prices are unbelievable.



Interestingly there is a July 4 Gold week (only 95,700 SO) currently getting bid higher (item 280399080053) but seller has a reserve price. Unlike SVV and WKV where season (i.e., number of StarOptions) mostly determine difference in sales prices between units at the same resort, it looks like the actual week here does have some value.


----------



## PamMo

Yeah, I've been watching that one, too. A summer week at Atlantis is hard to get into - that fixed week is an awesome family week. I'm not surprised to see a lot of bidding on it.

Even with high MF's, I still think that winter week was a great buy! I hope a TUGger got it.


----------



## tomandrobin

PamMo said:


> Yeah, I've been watching that one, too. A summer week at Atlantis is hard to get into - that fixed week is an awesome family week. I'm not surprised to see a lot of bidding on it.
> 
> Even with high MF's, I still think that winter week was a great buy! I hope a TUGger got it.



A two bedroom in July is next to impossible to get a SVN trade. I have tried every year since becoming an owner. Calling at 8 months out, then wait listing....nada.


----------



## thinze3

The seller states the option of fixed or floating. Is that true?


----------



## DeniseM

thinze3 said:


> The seller states the option of fixed or floating. Is that true?



I believe that HRA weeks can either be used as a fixed week, or float within their season, but it can be difficult to reserve a different week.


----------



## malyons

wow, I was watching this one for my mother last night (who i'm trying to convince to buy a timeshare).....I know it's only a 1BR and in the older section, but it's platinum season....seriously, 1 bid, $97 for a SBP?  what am I missing here?  I almost bought it just because.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370271938935&_trkparms=tab=Watching


----------



## tomandrobin

thinze3 said:


> The seller states the option of fixed or floating. Is that true?



Its sort of true, but don't ever plan on floating a week that is sold as fixed. 

WSJ weeks are also fixed/float weeks and the float aspect never works.


----------



## James1975NY

DannyM said:


> Interestingly there is a July 4 Gold week (only 95,700 SO) currently getting bid higher (item 280399080053) but seller has a reserve price. Unlike SVV and WKV where season (i.e., number of StarOptions) mostly determine difference in sales prices between units at the same resort, it looks like the actual week here does have some value.



With the Harborside Resort and the intricacies of the phase I units (all fixed/float) there is definitely a relationship between sales price and the actual week number (from my experience)

Knowing that it is difficult to change your week in the same season (phase I) and you wanted to travel in mid-July would you purchase a week 20? Lets put it this way, if I knew your travel needs (which I always ask), I would not sell you the week 20 on the pretense that you would try to float the week into mid-summer. 

Phase II is a different animal and is sold mostly as float.


----------



## K2Quick

Another 2 bed SDO 1-52 floater closed at $2,325:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230387698875&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## Aussiedog

malyons said:


> wow, I was watching this one for my mother last night (who i'm trying to convince to buy a timeshare).....I know it's only a 1BR and in the older section, but it's platinum season....seriously, 1 bid, $97 for a SBP?  what am I missing here?  I almost bought it just because.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370271938935&_trkparms=tab=Watching



SBP is a great resort but I don't think the 1 bedrooms are a popular choice.  It is a real family resort, lots of parents and/or grandparents and children so the 2 bedroom units are much more popular for owners and renters.

Ann


----------



## vacationtime1

malyons said:


> wow, I was watching this one for my mother last night (who i'm trying to convince to buy a timeshare).....I know it's only a 1BR and in the older section, but it's platinum season....seriously, 1 bid, $97 for a SBP?  what am I missing here?  I almost bought it just because.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370271938935&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching



There was nothing wrong with the deal:  good development, platinum season, great trader, reasonable MF's, honest seller, great price.

If your mom only needs a one bedroom, it was a fine deal, but only if your mom understands and really wants a timeshare.


----------



## malyons

vacationtime1 said:


> There was nothing wrong with the deal:  good development, platinum season, great trader, reasonable MF's, honest seller, great price.
> 
> If your mom only needs a one bedroom, it was a fine deal, but only if your mom understands and really wants a timeshare.



yeah, she understands, and is in the market....we're in the SVN system and will now be trading into SBP for the 2nd year in a row, so she's thinking she'd use it when we're there to go on vaca w/ her grandkids (my children) and it'd be a good trader for her when she decided to go elsewhere.  her youngest (my sister) is graduating HS this yr and so they won't be tied to the school schedule any longer, therefore a TS makes as much sense now as ever.  plus w/ the depressed prices in this market.....

I think they'd be very satisfied w/ something in the starwood system, even relying on the II pref to trade and not getting so's.


----------



## vacationtime1

*Westin Princeville (WPORV) annual OV sold for $13,300*

eBay auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180419139043&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Seller was somewhat confused; the ad states that StarOptions will transfer (he quoted "Starwood supervisors" who told him it was "mandatory"; he also said other supervisors told him it was "voluntary", so he knew the lingo).  

Otherwise the ad was well constructed.  The seller had 100% positive feedback.


----------



## DavidnRobin

to clarify - it was a successful eBay auction - whether it will actually complete the sale is another question.

WPORV is Voluntary
SVO has a ROFR for WPORV


----------



## DanCali

vacationtime1 said:


> eBay auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180419139043&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Seller was somewhat confused; the ad states that StarOptions will transfer (he quoted "Starwood supervisors" who told him it was "mandatory"; he also said other supervisors told him it was "voluntary", so he knew the lingo).
> 
> Otherwise the ad was well constructed.  The seller had 100% positive feedback.



I'm pretty sure he managed to confuse the buyer too... $13K+ for a voluntary resort (with $2600 MFs) that you can get with an II exchange?


----------



## keepgoing

*to be added to the ebay sale database - St John*

3BR Westin St John Week 26 Unit 4113 Gold Plus Annual SO-104.1K (Oct 22,09) $21,711
http://cgi.ebay.com/3BR-Westin-St-J...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item19b6956a80

1BR Westin St John Week 40 Unit 3423 Gold Plus Annual SO-44K (Oct 22, 09) $5,610
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110437355412&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## tomandrobin

Good prices for both, just hate to pay those "inflated" maintenance fees right now.


----------



## DavidnRobin

a 3Bd for $22K is amazing - week 26 is carnival week on STJ (most times) - after that the island goes into hibernation mode.  Of course - whether it the sale actually goes thru is another matter considering the inaccuracies in the auction (and the low price - ~$10K below).

There is no ROFR for WSJ.


----------



## DanCali

I tend to look at this more as $22K IS the market price for a 3BR rather than $22K is $10K below market... IMO markets can be inefficient, but not THAT inefficient. There are just too many people watching these auctions to create a $10K arbitrage for a buyer.

IMO  - the value of these expensive mandatory resorts (WSJ, WKORV, HRA) will untimately be determined by their MFs. Everything else - view, location, decor, will become meaningless as MFs rise. I would even venture to say that a rough approximation of the decay in value (at these market prices) is an increase of $100 in MFs translates to a loss of $1500-$2000 in market value. It sounds like a lot but if you think about it carefully you will see that it's been pretty close to the way resale values changed. Sure, you can blame some of it on the economy if you really want to (although MFs were rising and resale prices dropping even before the recession) - so maybe it's $1200-$1500 per $100 increase in MFs, but you get the idea.


----------



## tomandrobin

I think that both of those resale prices are below market, but I also think that the current maintenance fee/assessment is severely effecting those prices.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Reminder to read 1st post regarding eBay sales (just because an auction is successful does not mean that the sale finalized)

If one goes to the USVI Recorders site (and use some clever searches) - it will show what purchase prices have actually been...


----------



## Westin5Star

shopfordeal said:


> 3BR Westin St John Week 26 Unit 4113 Gold Plus Annual SO-104.1K (Oct 22,09) $21,711
> http://cgi.ebay.com/3BR-Westin-St-J...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item19b6956a80


I wish that I would have caught this one.  It is exactly the week and unit that I am interested in.


----------



## DanCali

DavidnRobin said:


> Reminder to read 1st post regarding eBay sales (just because an auction is successful does not mean that the sale finalized)
> 
> If one goes to the USVI Recorders site (and use some clever searches) - it will show what purchase prices have actually been...



If one were truly to rely on USVI recorders site purchase prices to determine market value, then they would buy on eBay for $22K and flip it... If I had enough conviction to believe something was underpriced by 5 figures (or 40-50%), I know that's what I would do!


----------



## DeniseM

Westin5Star said:


> I wish that I would have caught this one.  It is exactly the week and unit that I am interested in.



If I were you, I'd contact the seller and tell him you want to buy it if the sale doesn't go through.  Since ebay TS auctions are not binding, I think a fair number of them are never completed.


----------



## Westin5Star

DeniseM said:


> If I were you, I'd contact the seller and tell him you want to buy it if the sale doesn't go through.  Since ebay TS auctions are not binding, I think a fair number of them are never completed.



Great Idea-  Thanks.


----------



## Ken555

WKORV-N 2-Bed IV - $14,100


----------



## DanCali

Ken555 said:


> WKORV-N 2-Bed IV - $14,100



Held up nicely but seller listed it with 2009 MFs... Let's see where this one ends up in 5 days.


----------



## sjuhawk_jd

DanCali said:


> ...
> IMO  - the value of these expensive mandatory resorts (WSJ, WKORV, HRA) will untimately be determined by their MFs



In the case of HRA, the resale value is also determined by the rental values. As long as units are renting over two times the MFs, there is no stress. In the case of WSJ, and even WKOV, the rental market is not as strong as HRA (to easily get over two times the MFs).


----------



## Ken555

DanCali said:


> Held up nicely but seller listed it with 2009 MFs... Let's see where this one ends up in 5 days.



Chances are that one won't even sell, since it's got a reserve.

And, wow, I don't think $14,100 is holding up nicely at all. I was watching it this evening and it was at $8,400 for a while, then jumped to $12 then $13, and only in the last few seconds did it go to $14... I'm sure two or three bidders were using programs to snip at the end.


----------



## DanCali

Ken555 said:


> Chances are that one won't even sell, since it's got a reserve.
> 
> And, wow, I don't think $14,100 is holding up nicely at all. I was watching it this evening and it was at $8,400 for a while, then jumped to $12 then $13, and only in the last few seconds did it go to $14... I'm sure two or three bidders were using programs to snip at the end.



I am not sure this one sells either when the buyer finds out MFs are 30% higher that advertised...

By "held up nicely" I meant that this is not too much below a similar unit that got bid up to $15K  about 2 months ago, before 2010 MFs were public. You could interpret this as a bid of about $17K because the seller wanted 2009 MFs reimbursed for a transaction that would have closed in December... - in that case $14.1K is substantially less already.

Even if the other one doesn't pass reserve it'd be interesting to see how high it gets bid up compared to this benchmark. I would have expected a much larger impact for such a big difference in MFs - even below $10K wouldn't surprise me at this point...


----------



## Captron

How about the SBP 2BR that got NO BID at $1 the other night! (It is relisted the icon is a green $.)


----------



## Ken555

Captron said:


> How about the SBP 2BR that got NO BID at $1 the other night! (It is relisted the icon is a green $.)



Wow - this auction even includes closing fees. It seems the seller does this for all his timeshare auctions - I wonder how much he charges people to list their timeshare...


----------



## SDKath

Just as an aside, there is some poor guy on redweek trying to sell a week 52 OFD for $115,000.  I emailed him saying that with that price, one would expect to buy directly from Starwood and get retro privileges as well as loads of bonus SPs.  He emailed me back saying that his price is $5000 less than what Starwood is charging currently for that event week.   

Katherine


----------



## vacationtime1

Captron said:


> How about the SBP 2BR that got NO BID at $1 the other night! (It is relisted the icon is a green $.)



This is what they used to call a gold week (may have been renamed to something sounding better) -- weeks 1, 7-8, 44-46, 51-52.  It was never worth much.  With the "new and improved" Starwood trading system + the 20% increase in MF's, it is worth even less.  I'm not surprised that no one wants it at any price.


----------



## jw0

Another SBP just sold on ebay for $77, with closing costs paid by seller.

This one was the best season for the old phase, 9-43/47.

Wow, that's a good price.  I understand that there are many issues with SVN, (II, MFs) but even at the higher current MF, it's still a good value for a week vacation in myrtle beach for 8 (at least I think so).

And I thought I bought at the bottom of the market.  Guess not.   

-John.


----------



## yumdrey

I have been watching that auction too. There was no bidding until the last moment, and it was done at $77. That price includes closing cost.
A few weeks ago, there was an auction on ebay for SBP, seller had reserve and the starting bidding was $500. It was a 2BR unit for week 9-47 (gold plus), and of course there was no bidding. After the auction was done with no bidding, I contacted seller and asked what was reserve and how much the seller wants. He/she said, Sheraton sells it for over $14,000 now, and he/she wants at least $10,000. I didn't reply to seller.


----------



## Captron

That SBP Gold week went through AGAIN without a $1 bid. It has been relisted for the third time at $1 with a buy it now for $75.

Also of note WKORVN annual went for $11100 and the biennial went for $5877.

Scary that I could not talk anyone out of a biennial for $12k less than a year ago. Welcome to MF season with BIG jumps.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!


----------



## thinze3

Captron said:


> ... Also of note WKORVN annual went for *$11,100* and the biennial went for $5877.
> 
> Scary that I could not talk anyone out of a biennial for $12k less than a year ago. Welcome to MF season with BIG jumps.
> 
> HAPPY THANKSGIVING!



... with the retail price of the annual OV 2BR units at WKORVN at about *$75,000*.


----------



## bryanphunter

*I just purchased EOY 2BR at SDO*

I won 2 bedroom lock-off for $735.00 yesterday.  EOY (Even), I have 3 weeks of odd year in Maui and was looking for someplace nice for my even years.  

With all the complaints about SVO, I was hesitant, but I decided my investment of $1300 plus $465 MF was worth having a lock-off.

I don't plan on exchanging this unit.  In fact I may exchange one of my maui weeks for an additional week either at SDO or similar duiring our vacation to Arizona.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-Sheraton-De...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item56372e18a6

Did I get a good deal?


----------



## grgs

bryanphunter said:


> Did I get a good deal?



I think so.  I like the resort and for Starwood the mf aren't bad.  If you're buying to use, you'll be fine.  Even with the new rules trading in II, it still seems to trade decently.

Glorian


----------



## vacationtime1

bryanphunter said:


> Did I get a good deal?



You did fine.  As increasing numbers of posts are noting, the real cost is the ongoing maintenance fees, not the acquisition cost.

You bought an even year -- i.e. starting in 2010.  It is imperative that you take immediate steps to have the seller reserve your use week for next year, especially if you want a prime week, such as March.  Those weeks may already be unavailable, but the sooner you try, the better.


----------



## Simon007

I just won the auction for the 1 BR Premium at HRA (Gold season).  Final price was 3320$ + Closing.   I very happy about this purchase.  A few days ago, I got another one for 999$ but for the Silver.
Cant wait to go back.


----------



## tomandrobin

Simon007 said:


> I just won the auction for the 1 BR Premium at HRA (Gold season).  Final price was 3320$ + Closing.   I very happy about this purchase.  A few days ago, I got another one for 999$ but for the Silver.
> Cant wait to go back.



Very good price, great season for HRA....IMO.....See you at Aquaventure.


----------



## thinze3

Who would have ever believed this price a couple of years ago?
WKORV annual 2BR OV just sold on eBay for $12,000.

Item #200411735906


----------



## mtnpilot

Well, with these insanely increasing maintenance fees, the bottom is dropping on Starwood properties....  Are we in a death spiral?


----------



## ondeadlin

I wouldn't say death spiral, but a fundamental revaluation of timeshares.

And one in which higher MF and changes in trading power will quickly drive values down.


----------



## Stefa

mtnpilot said:


> Well, with these insanely increasing maintenance fees, the bottom is dropping on Starwood properties....  Are we in a death spiral?



If they can get the MFs under control, WKORV and WKORVN will be fine.  A week at the Maui Westin is still worth the MFs.  It just isn't worth the high MFs (with the risk of higher fees in the future) plus a large buy-in price.


----------



## jarta

mtn,   ...   "Are we in a death spiral?"

You were commenting on a sale at WKORV for $12K.  In case you haven't noticed, the prices on all timeshares are way, way down.  It's either a death spiral or a tremendous buying opportunity if the bottom can be determined.

From an eBay ad this morning - Marriott Waiohai - Poipu, Kauai (ranked #13 by TUG) - 2 weeks - annual assessment $1.2K each - $15K each - no bidders while active.  Supposedly purchased from the developer years ago for $32K each.   ...   eom


----------



## ocdb8r

ondeadlin said:


> I wouldn't say death spiral, but a fundamental revaluation of timeshares.
> 
> And one in which higher MF and changes in trading power will quickly drive values down.



I think maint. fees are the bottom line.  $2500 every year, just for the pleasure of stepping foot into the door isn't the "bargain" many owners were sold on.  Tack on airfare, food, and activities for a family for 4 or more, and suddenly you realize that having and obligation to take a + or - $10K vacation each year isn't all it is cracked up to be.

I think we will continue to see bargain prices for some time...eventually HOA's, even developer controlled, are going to have to dump non-paying inventory into the market somehow just to get maint. fees paid.  I just wonder how the quality of the resorts will hold up...Starwood is likely to penny pinch anyplace necessary to keep their fees rolling in.



Stefa said:


> If they can get the MFs under control, WKORV and WKORVN will be fine.  A week at the Maui Westin is still worth the MFs.  It just isn't worth the high MFs (with the risk of higher fees in the future) plus a large buy-in price.



I think even this is a tenuous statement.  $350/night goes a long way, especially in a down economy with options such as priceline and hotwire.  Add to those vacation package pricing and it's starting to be a questionable value proposition.  While I agree that right now it might JUST be worth maintenance fees, given the cost of entry (even at only $12k) and the ongoing obligation that you pay for that week every year, plus the possibility of maintenance fees continuing to increase beyond inflation, I think it's a losing proposition.


----------



## DanCali

jarta said:


> mtn,   ...   "Are we in a death spiral?"
> 
> You were commenting on a sale at WKORV for $12K.  In case you haven't noticed, the prices on all timeshares are way, way down.  It's either a death spiral or a tremendous buying opportunity if the bottom can be determined.
> 
> From an eBay ad this morning - Marriott Waiohai - Poipu, Kauai (ranked #13 by TUG) - 2 weeks - annual assessment $1.2K each - $15K each - no bidders while active.  Supposedly purchased from the developer years ago for $32K each.   ...   eom



Maintenance fees at Waiohai are more like $1500 these days (from RedWeek postings). Here is the history of MF increases... and feel free to compare that trend with Starwood's. It's actually pretty steep increases too but still makes you wonder why WPORV is $2600 and counting.

I wouldn't really use developer prices as a benchmark for anything related to the resale market. The trend in resale prices would be interesting but there is limilted data in Marriott's ROFR database to infer too much, especially since I think these villas have deeded views so you need to compare apples to apples.

The problem is that a resale buyer who wants to buy a high end timeshare on these islands is asking "Do I want to pay MFs of $1500 for a Marriott TS or MFs of $2500 for a Starwood one, where the MF increases for the latter are more uncertain?" - the answer to that question is reflected in resale price declines for SVO properties. Snorkel reef on Maui or not, or however nicer WPORV may be than the Marriott in Poipu, I would pick Marriott in a heartbeat these days.


----------



## jarta

DanCali,   ...   Very interesting points about developer v. resale prices and Maui v. Kauai.

But, does that mean that the point of my post (*all* timeshare resale prices are plummeting) is somehow wrong.

2 Marriott weeks in Hawaii.  Resort ranked #13 among all resorts by TUG.  Sunny, sandy Poipu, not rainy Princeville.  Assessments of about 1/2 of WKORV.  No bidders at $15K for either or $30K for both.

If you and everyone else would pick Marriott, where were the bidders?   ...   eom


----------



## Stefa

The Waiohai weeks are garden view and are dedicated 2br units.   Also, I've noticed that auctions with a high starting bid, even when it is realistic, get less response.

I agree with the basic point that ts values are down no matter what system you are talking about.  I'm just not sure this is the best example since I'm not surprised they didn't sell.  

It is also worth noting that neither of these acutions were by the larger, more established ebay timeshare resellers.  This would also discourage some potential bidders.


----------



## jarta

Stefa,   ...   "It is also worth noting that neither of these acutions were by the larger, more established ebay timeshare resellers. This would also discourage some potential bidders."

Yes, some bidders.  But, if the price ($15K) was right a dedicated eBay purchaser would bid and get the details straightened out later.  Winning a bid on eBay does not bind you to purchase if the contract or deed is not "right" or the units are not what is advertised.

I just thought that the people who are mad at Starwood because a Hawaiian unit sold for $12K were forgetting to look at other plummeting timeshare values.  I still think they don't get the proposition that in this economy values are plummeting for all timeshares - not just the SVO ones.

There is a 148,100 Staroption 2-br at WKV that has 2 days left and the price is only $8,900.  (And, this is so even though I belileve the seller is engaging in automatic shill bidding to drive up the price and disguise the fact that there really are few actual bidders bidding.)   ...   eom


----------



## DanCali

jarta said:


> DanCali,   ...   Very interesting points about developer v. resale prices and Maui v. Kauai.
> 
> But, does that mean that the point of my post (*all* timeshare resale prices are plummeting) is somehow wrong.
> 
> 2 Marriott weeks in Hawaii.  Resort ranked #13 among all resorts by TUG.  Sunny, sandy Poipu, not rainy Princeville.  Assessments of about 1/2 of WKORV.  No bidders at $15K for either or $30K for both.
> 
> If you and everyone else would pick Marriott, where were the bidders?   ...   eom



No, your point is no wrong. I just think prices are plummeting at different slopes and Starwood is among the very worst in terms of loss of equity for owners. WKORV OV from $40K on the resale market to $11K on the resale market in about two years - it's hard to find a Marriott in the Platinum season with that level of value destruction.

Why do you think $15K is a fair price for Marriott Waiohai? Have you been following these a lot? There are 3 units posted on RedWeek asking $15K so $15K is too high... There is no reason to bid $15K if you can wait for the next auction and get the same item for $12K... If someone is savvy enough to bid on a timeshare on eBay they probably know the right price. I personally wouldn't bid on an auction that had a starting price which was greater than 75% of what I was willing to pay... - just in case my valuation was too high I'd want to avoid the "winner's curse".

Start an auction at $1 and the bidders will come...


----------



## DanCali

jarta said:


> There is a 148,100 Staroption 2-br at WKV that has 2 days left and the price is only $8,900.  (And, this is so even though I belileve the seller is engaging in automatic shill bidding to drive up the price and disguise the fact that there really are few actual bidders bidding.)   ...   eom



WKV has always been the "value" within Starwood (and still is). However, even there the fees doubled over 5 years and if that trend continues you can be sure the resale prices will not last. I like the property and would even consider buying there but the trend is scary.

Can you justify why it is now 70%+ more expensive to maintain a timeshare in the AZ desert than it was in 2004 - at least in the Starwood world? I can't... By the way Marriott Canyon Villas in the same area had operating fee declines over a 5 year period! (their MFs overall had relatively modest increases but it was due to elimination of developer contributions). Marriott MFs are around $900, WKV MFs are around $1300. They were a lot closer 5 years ago...

That said, the WKV auction you are referring to should end much higher - most of the price moves come in the last 5 minutes anyway for highly desired items.


----------



## Stefa

jarta said:


> Stefa,   ...   "It is also worth noting that neither of these acutions were by the larger, more established ebay timeshare resellers. This would also discourage some potential bidders."
> 
> Yes, some bidders.  But, if the price ($15K) was right a dedicated eBay purchaser would bid and get the details straightened out later.  Winning a bid on eBay does not bind you to purchase if the contract or deed is not "right" or the units are not what is advertised.
> 
> I just thought that the people who are mad at Starwood because a Hawaiian unit sold for $12K were forgetting to look at other plummeting timeshare values.  I still think they don't get the proposition that in this economy values are plummeting for all timeshares - not just the SVO ones.



jarta

I meant that both the WKORV and the Waiohai were being auctioned by private sellers.    The WKORV might have sold for more had it been offered by a more established seller.

While it is true that you can bid and negotiate later, I have noticed that low-volume sellers get less action.  This matters because you only need two bidders (or 1 bidder + one shill) to bid up an auction.  The winning bidder of the Maui week may have been willing to pay $15k, but they didn't have to because there was no one else willing to pay more at this particular time to buy from that particular seller.  The exact same unit may sell for $15,000 next week.

As for the Waiohai week.  I'm not surprised it didn't get any action at that price for a garden view, especially given that the seller seemed convinced they were offering the deal of the century.   Lets just pretend, though, that I thought $15,000 was a fair price.  I still may choose not to bid because I am hoping it will be relisted for a lower price.   If I thought it was worth significantly more than $15k, it would make sense to jump in at the last minute with a minimum bid, otherwise, I'd hope for a better deal.


----------



## jarta

Stefa,   ...   So, I guess, the concensus is that $15K is too much for a 2-br at Marriott's Waiohai with a $1.5K assessment and, even though everyone prefers owning at Marriott, it should have been advertised for lower to attract any bids.  

But, the $12K bid price at for a 2-br at WKORV was relatively OK and shows Starwood prices are plummeting due to the  annual assessment of about $2.8K.  (There is a WKV with 148,100 Staroptions and a $1.3K assessment that is at $8.9K on eBay with 2 days left on a 7 day listing by a timeshare resale company.)

It's OK with me that you believe your logic.  I just don't.  

I think that the "death spiral" possibility is something that is an existential threat to timesharing in general.  It's just how steep the spiral is (or will become).  There seem to be far more timeshares out there than the present vacation market demand is able or willing to support.  It may be only temporary; then, again, it may be permanent or long-lasting enough to put a lot of timeshare resorts under.  Those associated with the stronger chains (Starwood, Marriott, Disney and Hilton), IMO, have a better chance of being there when the smoke clears.    ...   eom


----------



## DanCali

DanCali said:


> Can you justify why it is now 70%+ more expensive to maintain a timeshare in the AZ desert than it was in 2004 - at least in the Starwood world? I can't... By the way Marriott Canyon Villas in the same area had operating fee declines over a 5 year period! (their MFs overall had relatively modest increases but it was due to elimination of developer contributions). Marriott MFs are around $900, WKV MFs are around $1300. They were a lot closer 5 years ago...



jarta - So Stefa gets an answer and I don't?... I am jealous!

I guess you probably need to get a hold of your WKV Board golfing buddy to come up with a good answer ifor this one...

I'll give you an incentive to figure it out - if you can convince me that there is a good reason why Canyon Villas operating expenses can be down to flat over a 6 year period and Starwood MFs at WKV double over the same period, I may even admit Starwood is ripping owners off probably no worse than Marriott. Until then they are the worst in my books.


----------



## jarta

DanCali,   ...   Your envy is showing.  Why does one off-chance pairing my wife and I had with a president of a well-managed, low assessment Starwood resort and his wife set you off so much.

I mentioned the chance encounter to show that the president of WKV is an ex-IRS collections supervisor and that I learned this when sitting around after playing my only round of golf with him.  When I first posted this information, the anti-Starwood TUG Gospel was that every member of every SVO board was a Starwood employee or a Starwood flunky.  It's just not true and that baloney has now thankfully ceased.  (Bella which had large 2010 assessment increases has the Episcopal Bishop of Dallas as its HOA president.)

BTW, do I always have to answer your question?  Is what you say that important?  However, the answer to your question is found in the accounting statements of Marriott and Starwood resorts in Arizona.  Any owner can get access to them to find out the differences.  Why don't you look before you speak?

But, I can tell you this.  I'd rather own and stay at WKV than almost every other timeshare resort in the world.  That includes Aviara, or Troon, or Harborside.  I haven't yet been to Hawaii or St. John (and many, many more timeshare places) so I may not know what I'm missing.  But, for amenities, ease of getting to the location, surrounding things to do, large, automatic discounts at the stores and restaurants in the Kierland Commons shopping center, use of the facilities at the Kierland hotel and friendliness of the WKV staff, WKV (except for the oven-like summer) is hard to beat.  And, I'm not saying this because I once played golf with a boring, but competent and honest, duffer and WKV big shot.

Obviously, you have never stayed at WKV.   ...   eom


----------



## DanCali

Jarta - Since I don't golf, I don't have a reason to envy you  (besides, it's not like you were paired with Tiger Woods or Annika Sorenstam...)

And no, I have not stayed at WKV but that is irrelevant. I imagine that many buyers at WKV buy there to trade via SVN to other locations anyway.

Getting back to the main point of low resale prices and high MFs. My conjecture is that Starwood is artificially inflating MFs to enhance their bottom line at the expense of owners. You call MFs of $1300 at WKV low (and they are - relative to Hawaii), but those MFs were sub-800 in 2005 (see 2nd post here). MFs here do not have to escalate to $3000 for resale values to go to zero - this is not Hawaii. Marriott's Canyon Villas property in the Phoenix area managed to contain MFs, despite eliminating a developer contribution. If you look at the "operating fee" column, they are running the resort for less money now than they did 6 years ago... pretty unvelieveable given energy prices and all the other "good stuff" we hear from Starwood.

Given that Marriott's incentives are actualy similar to Starwood's (they also get a cut off the top), what does this tell us about Starwood's MF increases at a resort only a few miles away?


----------



## Stefa

jarta said:


> Stefa,   ...   So, I guess, the concensus is that $15K is too much for a 2-br at Marriott's Waiohai with a $1.5K assessment and, even though everyone prefers owning at Marriott, it should have been advertised for lower to attract any bids.
> 
> But, the $12K bid price at for a 2-br at WKORV was relatively OK and shows Starwood prices are plummeting due to the  annual assessment of about $2.8K.



jarta

I clearly stated why these auctions may not be representative of typical sales at these resorts.  I also said that the WKORV might sell for more next week.  If you want to interpret everything anyone says on these boards as an attack on Starwood, be my guest.

There is no concensus about the value of Waiohai.  I just stated my opinion.  We are comparing two different views and two different islands.  I don't think two isolated ebay auctions provide enough evidence to draw any conclusions.


----------



## Stefa

Dan

It's been several years since I stayed at Canyon Villas, but WKV is a much nicer property, imo.   Also, MCV has 1br + studio while WKV has 1br + 1br configuration.  I wouldn't necessarily say the quality and configuration difference justifies the fee difference, but it can't be ignored either.


----------



## Ken555

DanCali said:


> You call MFs of $1300 at WKV low (and they are - relative to Hawaii), but those MFs were sub-800 in 2005 (see 2nd post here).



I just checked my records, and this is what I have.

2006: approx $850 
2007: $956.30 (includes taxes (anyone know how much they were in 2007?))
2008: $1044.58 
2009: $1086.37 (3.85%)
2010: $1179 (7.86%)

+ SVN & Taxes (and no ARDA $5)

I haven't double checked these numbers so they might be off a bit...


----------



## DanCali

Ken555 said:


> I just checked my records, and this is what I have.
> 
> 2006: approx $850
> 2007: $956.30 (includes taxes (anyone know how much they were in 2007?))
> 2008: $1044.58
> 2009: $1086.37 (3.85%)
> 2010: $1179 (7.86%)
> 
> + SVN & Taxes (and no ARDA $5)
> 
> I haven't double checked these numbers so they might be off a bit...



And my post said sub-800 in 2005, so that looks right...

And since you excluded taxes and SVN fees that's pretty much all operating expenses increases (unless a developer contribution was buried in there). 

Looks pretty bad compared to Canyon Villas. I'd even say worse things but I don't wan't to be accused of making irresponsible accusations... Everyone can judge for themselves.


----------



## thinze3

Jarta, there is no question that both Marriotts and Westins in Hawaii have had drastic reductions in value, but from what I have seen, these 'super fees' imposed on the Westins appear to be the driving force behind their very recent freefall.

I purchased my EOY IV at Waiohai about three and a half years ago for about $10.5K and have probably now lost about 35% of my value. These Westins appear to have lost nearly 50% or more in less than one year. Trust me, I have been watching for a bargain WKORV, but I am not sure I want one at any price with $2400 mf's.

Now that airfares are creeping back up again, I can't imagine that the prices for both will do anything but continue their downward trend.


----------



## DanCali

Stefa said:


> Dan
> 
> It's been several years since I stayed at Canyon Villas, but WKV is a much nicer property, imo.   Also, MCV has 1br + studio while WKV has 1br + 1br configuration.  I wouldn't necessarily say the quality and configuration difference justifies the fee difference, but it can't be ignored either.



I've never had a problem with fee differences betwen Marriott and Starwood. My problem is the annual *percentage* increases. 

If Starwood was $800 and Marriott was $600 and a year later Starwood increases by $40 to $840 and Marriott by $30 to $630 that's a 5% increase for both (although Starwood's increase was $10 more because they started with a higher base). I can live with that. 

It looks suspect when Starwood has 5%-10% (10%-15% in Hawaii) annual increases and Marriott operating expenses at resorts in the same areas increase by a much lesser percentage (in the case of Canyon Villas, their operating expenses actually decline).

Recall that 7% per years means fees double every 10 years (and at 10% a year they double every 7 years). Neither at 7% not at 10% can you even think about leaving these VOIs to your heirs. If the reality is increases consistently greater than inflation (average 2%-3% a year in the US) this is like a pyramid scheme where the last person who owns thetimeshare loses (except all the owners who owned in between lose out also because their equity losses + MFs would cost more than rentals).


----------



## Captron

Captron said:


> How about the SBP 2BR that got NO BID at $1 the other night! (It is relisted the icon is a green $.)




Just to close this issue. The unit closed for the THIRD time tonight and got bid up to....... $5.50 with a handful of bids. OUCH!!! Although better than closing without ANY bids I guess. I hope the owner REALLY wanted out!


----------



## olivias dad

Even tho it's not the most demanded week of the year, this is still a steal at WSJ - MF's are higher than what is listed tho, which is such a deterrent....

http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-ST-JOHN-STARWOOD-POINTS-CARIBBEAN-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ350287274968QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item518ebfa3d8


----------



## James1975NY

olivias dad said:


> Even tho it's not the most demanded week of the year, this is still a steal at WSJ - MF's are higher than what is listed tho, which is such a deterrent....
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-ST-JOHN-STARWOOD-POINTS-CARIBBEAN-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ350287274968QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item518ebfa3d8



WOW! I am at a loss of words. I hope there was'nt a tragedy behind that price.


----------



## Stefa

olivias dad said:


> Even tho it's not the most demanded week of the year, this is still a steal at WSJ - MF's are higher than what is listed tho, which is such a deterrent....
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-ST-JOHN-STARWOOD-POINTS-CARIBBEAN-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ350287274968QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item518ebfa3d8



The sad part is the owner didn't even get the full sale price, since they would have had to pay redweeks4less to list the week.  I hope they didn't pay someone $$$$ to take the timeshare off their hands.


----------



## DanCali

olivias dad said:


> Even tho it's not the most demanded week of the year, this is still a steal at WSJ - MF's are higher than what is listed tho, which is such a deterrent....
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-ST-JOHN-STARWOOD-POINTS-CARIBBEAN-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ350287274968QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item518ebfa3d8



This lists MFs of $2500 for a 1BR. That's over $350/night. Is that right?


----------



## jerseygirl

DanCali said:


> This lists MFs of $2500 for a 1BR. That's over $350/night. Is that right?



My records show it's $2293, plus SVN fee ... plus taxes whenever they're settled so $2500 was a good quote.  But, it includes the 3-year special assessment (2009, 2010, 2011).

Yes -- it's high, but compared to rentals at the resort, it's a bargain.  To rent this same room from Westin:

Average est. room total per night** Estimated total for your stay**
1 room(s) for 7  night(s) 
Room rate: USD 1,350.00 USD 9,450.00 
Room rate excludes the following: 
Room Tax:  USD 108.00 USD 756.00 
8.00 % Per Room / Per Night  
Resort Charge:  USD 40.00 USD 280.00 
USD 40.00 Per Room / Per Night  
Estimated total*: USD 1,498.00  USD 10,486.00 

They run specials from time to time, but it's a high rental, no matter what the discount.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ-Hillside 2Bd/3Ba (81K SO) - week #25*

*WSJ-Hillside 2Bd/3Ba (81K SO) - Week #25 - Villa #3410 - $20,252*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180442835671&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## LisaH

DavidnRobin said:


> *WSJ-Hillside 2Bd/3Ba (81K SO) - Week #25 - Villa #3410 - $20,252*
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180442835671&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



I was watching that one as well. I was tempted to bid-it was only at $8K or so late last night. Glad he got a decent price in today's market-the ad was well written.


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## DavidnRobin

I am also very glad that he got this price since it is well over what these villa-types have been selling for (and what we paid)

The ad may have been well-written, but when the auction winner finds out that the MFs are $2800, and taxes have not been paid since 2006 - they will have reason to back out.

With the real check-in date of Fri (I actually like Fri check-in better since STT is a zoo on Sat) and not Sat - unlikely that the auction winner will find out that it is very difficult to move within season (e.g. move to a Sat check-in) until it is too late (unless they find TUG).  also - no mention of whether 2010 was reserved - and what the dates are (?)

so from this aspect (giving the winner a reason to back out because of bad info) - the ad which made the resort and island sound inticing - has many holes which may negate the sale.  I would opt for and inticing ad that had correct and transparent info (for the most part)


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## thinze3

WOW! It is indeed nice to see any timeshare sale for over $20K on eBay. It has been a while since I have seen that.


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## LisaH

I was thinking that the M/F was lower than it should be. Someone asked about this and he had a convoluted explanation...Anyway, I said it's well-written, just didn't mention that it's also somewhat misleading


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## DavidnRobin

*WKORV-N IV LO (148.1K SO) - $14,100 (Jan 6, 2009)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270508230707&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

SVO sold these for around $48K just a few years ago...


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## olivias dad

If only the pictures matched the unit, these are for the new development....

http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-ST-JOHN-STARWOOD-POINTS-CARIBBEAN-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ350301870089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item518f9e5809

Although I would say the MF's for the most part are accurate..


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Studio - Week 36, Villa 3314 - 37.5K SOs - $4050 (Jan 13, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350301870089&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO - Gold - 81K SO - $4450 (Jan 14, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390140561634&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## olivias dad

Wow, and i thought i got a good deal for my week (even though this is prime slow season - which some people enjoy).

http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-ST-JOHN-STARWOOD-POINTS-CARIBBEAN-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ350306450286QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item518fe43b6eQQautorefreshZtrue


----------



## DanCali

*WKV 2Bd LO - Gold - 81K SO - $5208 (Jan 17, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300386316538


----------



## thinze3

*Lakeside Terrace 2BR - platinum Plus (week 7) - EOY odd - $2550 (Jan 22, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370320836920#ht_5686wt_1158


----------



## DanCali

*WKV EY 2Bd LO - Gold - 81K SO - $5,158 (Jan 25, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260541072515


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## DanCali

*WKORVN EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Island View $14,100 (Jan 6, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270508230707


----------



## DanCali

*WKORVN EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Ocean View $14,795 (Jan 15, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150404897047


----------



## DanCali

*WKORVN EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Ocean Front $16,800 (Jan 26, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350307161885


----------



## jarta

(Reply posted on wrong thread)


----------



## DanCali

*WKORVN EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Island View $9600 (Jan 26, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120518657901


----------



## Ken555

DanCali said:


> *WKORVN EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Island View $9600 (Jan 26, 2010)*
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120518657901




I was wondering what this one would sell it, with the high closing costs (~$775, with a $25 Westin transfer fee (huh?)).


----------



## DanCali

Ken555 said:


> I was wondering what this one would sell it, with the high closing costs (~$775, with a $25 Westin transfer fee (huh?)).



Not sure why it sold so much less than the one from a few days ago. Certianly it's not just the $200 extra in fees...


----------



## DanCali

*WKV EY 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148K SO - $17,100 (Dec 3, 2009)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320454410331

----------------------------------------------------------------------
*WKV EOY 2Bd LO - Silver - 56K SO EOY - $1660 (Dec 7, 2009)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350287864249

----------------------------------------------------------------------
*WKORV EY 1BR Platinum (1-50) 81K SOs Ocean View $5251 (Dec 16, 2009)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370304369138

----------------------------------------------------------------------
*WKORV EY 1BR Platinum (1-50) 81K SOs Ocean View $5100 (Dec 19, 2009)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350293472240

----------------------------------------------------------------------
*WKORV EOY 1BR Platinum (1-50) 81K SOs EOY Ocean View $4050 (Dec 8, 2009)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290376415704

----------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## RLOGO

Stefa said:


> The sad part is the owner didn't even get the full sale price, since they would have had to pay redweeks4less to list the week.  I hope they didn't pay someone $$$$ to take the timeshare off their hands.



It appears the sale did not go through as the unit is relisted on eBay.


----------



## thinze3

DanCali said:


> *WKORVN EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Ocean Front $16,800 (Jan 26, 2010)*
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350307161885



This would have been double 1-1/2 years ago. Incredible unit.


----------



## LisaRex

thinze3 said:


> This would have been double 1-1/2 years ago. Incredible unit.




Plus it included July 4th week (though you have to pay 2010 MFs).


----------



## DavidnRobin

Please remember - as stated in post #1 - that just because an eBay auction goes through does not mean the sale completed.  In tracking these over the years - many end up getting relisted, or the same seller puts the same unit up for sale.


----------



## DanCali

DavidnRobin said:


> Please remember - as stated in post #1 - that just because an eBay auction goes through does not mean the sale completed.  In tracking these over the years - many end up getting relisted, or the same seller puts the same unit up for sale.



But even if the sale doesn't go through, does that mean the price at the end of the auction is biased in either direction?

If the auction is competitive enough I don't think it really matters if the sale closed. And if anything, it's probably a buyer who is more likely to walk away if they think they overpaid (sellers are generaly motivated to close the deal, and can always have a reserve price) so the prices may be biased upwards in those auctions that don't close.

Am I missing something?


----------



## vacationtime1

DanCali said:


> But even if the sale doesn't go through, does that mean the price at the end of the auction is biased in either direction?
> 
> If the auction is competitive enough I don't think it really matters if the sale closed. And if anything, it's probably a buyer who is more likely to walk away if they think they overpaid (sellers are generaly motivated to close the deal, and can always have a reserve price) so the prices may be biased upwards in those auctions that don't close.
> 
> Am I missing something?



Certain unscrupulous sellers are believed to list timeshares with low starting prices and no reserve with the expectation of starting a spirited bidding war (evidence suggests that low starting prices and no reserve encourages bidding).  If the auction closes at a low price, these sellers are believed to tell the lucky buyer that the item was not described correctly or is no longer available, but will frequently list an identical unit shortly thereafter (identical down to the same unit number and week).  

To the outside world, the eBay result appears to be a very low price, but no one was able to buy at that price.

Of course it is impossible to verify that this actually happens, but eBay is a strange place -- even stranger with private bidding.


----------



## DanCali

vacationtime1 said:


> Certain unscrupulous sellers are believed to list timeshares with low starting prices and no reserve with the expectation of starting a spirited bidding war (evidence suggests that low starting prices and no reserve encourages bidding).  If the auction closes at a low price, these sellers are believed to tell the lucky buyer that the item was not described correctly or is no longer available, but will frequently list an identical unit shortly thereafter (identical down to the same unit number and week).
> 
> To the outside world, the eBay result appears to be a very low price, but no one was able to buy at that price.
> 
> Of course it is impossible to verify that this actually happens, but eBay is a strange place -- even stranger with private bidding.



I guess that can happen. Didn't think of that...

But on second thought - shouldn't that be reflected in a seller's feedback?


----------



## DavidnRobin

DanCali said:


> I guess that can happen. Didn't think of that...
> 
> But on second thought - shouldn't that be reflected in a seller's feedback?



Does happen - especially with a few sellers.

Perhaps a reason the certain common eBay sellers do have low ratings - but there are ways to wiggle out w/o a buyer giving a bad rating.

tbh - If I sold a VOI on eBay - I would not set a reserve, nor a high starting price - they just do not sell (history clearly shows this - I don't even bother tracking them anymore) However - if I got lowballed - as a seller - I would back out. I would not take a large $ hit - I wouldn't care about my eBay rating.  But of course - I would make sure the auction had correct info and was appealing, and I would have reasonable expectations of its worth.


----------



## krj9999

*SBP 1BR week 26 (9-43 float) went for $484*

The smallest unit with low maintenance fees.  I bid on, but wasn't going to press too far and closing costs were high.  Decent deal though, IMHO.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110490185757


----------



## DanCali

*WPORV (Voluntary) EOY 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148K SO - $7650 (Feb 7, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380201794922


----------



## yumdrey

DanCali said:


> *WPORV (Voluntary) EY 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148K SO Ocean View - $7650 (Feb 7, 2010)*
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380201794922



This is a voluntary resort, so staroption doesn't transfer to a new owner.
And it is every other year (odd years) use.
This auction was ended higher price than I thought.


----------



## DanCali

yumdrey said:


> This is a voluntary resort, so staroption doesn't transfer to a new owner.
> And it is every other year (odd years) use.
> This auction was ended higher price than I thought.



Copy and paste... fixed to EOY in my original post. Also removed the OV (no deeded views at WPORV)

Yes, a bit surprisingly high for an EOY. Not much different from WKORV. Just shows the "value" of these comes from usage, not SVN trading (unlike the price difference between SDO and WKV)


----------



## Fredm

The ad misstates (misleads) fess. Says fees are payable January 1st, every other year in the amount of $1,185.


----------



## DavidnRobin

To be clear the MF for an EOY WPORV (as of Jan'10) is $ 1,147.68 *and is paid annually*.  This includes a $50 Princeville resort fee (includes use of St Regis facilities - except for the pools and hot tubs).  This MF does not contain the SVN fee (if any).

There have been 2 completed eBay auction for EOY WPORV - at around $8K.  These are being sold by SVO for ~$36K with around 80K SP incentives.

I paid ~$25K for ours and got around 225K SPs at the end - back in March 2007 (used our SPG AMEX, and a same-day Explorer Package) - plus I retro'd our WKORV VOI and got 3* (no big deal).


----------



## Fredm

DavidnRobin said:


> To be clear the MF for an EOY WPORV (as of Jan'10) is $ 1,147.68.  This includes a $50 Princeville resort fee (includes use of St Regis facilities - except for the pools and hot tubs).  This MF does not contain the SVN fee (if any).




To be clear, clear, the 1147.88 is paid *annually*.

The closed auction represents the fees as payable every other year in the amount of $1185.


----------



## DanCali

*WMH 2BR EOY Gold < $1*

Zero bids on this auction... 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350312932923


----------



## DavidnRobin

DanCali said:


> Zero bids on this auction...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350312932923



Hi - this thread is intended only for the eBay auctions that were successful.  There are 100s of non-successful auctions.  Please refer to post #1.


----------



## saluki

WKV 2BR Gold - 2 bids with winning bid of $1005 + 2010 MF's

   

I assume this won't close, but yikes.


----------



## jerseygirl

saluki said:


> WKV 2BR Gold - 2 bids with winning bid of $1005 + 2010 MF's
> 
> 
> 
> I assume this won't close, but yikes.




Wouldn't a gold be worth 81000 SOs?  The ad says 56300 -- is that silver?  (Sorry -- I just got a new laptop and haven't transferred my files -- too lazy to log into myripoffcentral to access the SO chart.)


----------



## saluki

jerseygirl said:


> Wouldn't a gold be worth 81000 SOs?  The ad says 56300 -- is that silver?  (Sorry -- I just got a new laptop and haven't transferred my files -- too lazy to log into myripoffcentral to access the SO chart.)



Yes, gold would be 81000. Either it's a silver unit or a poor "cut & paste" job that possibly kept confused bidders away.


----------



## jerseygirl

saluki said:


> Yes, gold would be 81000. Either it's a silver unit or a poor "cut & paste" job that possibly kept confused bidders away.



Thanks -- that's what I thought.  56K is a worthless # of SOs to have, in my opinion -- doesn't really "mesh well" with any of the other popular resale mandatory units.  Although, it does gets you a one-BR premium at HRA in the summer .............. if you can find one.


----------



## saluki

jerseygirl said:


> Thanks -- that's what I thought.  56K is a worthless # of SOs to have, in my opinion -- doesn't really "mesh well" with any of the other popular resale mandatory units.  Although, it does gets you a one-BR premium at HRA in the summer .............. if you can find one.



Just looked at the listing again. Even though it says Gold, it is in fact Silver based on the deeded week & home usage weeks shown. Nice job there "greattimesharebargains".


----------



## jerseygirl

And well-deserved price!


----------



## DanCali

*WKV EY "small" 1Bd - Gold - 37K SO - $1199 (Feb 20, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180465223253


----------



## saluki

jerseygirl said:


> Wouldn't a gold be worth 81000 SOs?  The ad says 56300 -- is that silver?  (Sorry -- I just got a new laptop and haven't transferred my files -- too lazy to log into myripoffcentral to access the SO chart.)



This WKV 2BR has been relisted on eBay. I wrote the seller that they had it mislabeled as Gold Season. They responded saying there is no Silver Season at WKV. I checked the StarOptions chart & technically they are correct. The old Silver Season is now Gold & the old Gold is "Gold Plus". I must have missed this "upgrade" notice.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Wow - I just went onto to eBay and looked at my Westin SVO search - there are a lot of Westin SVO VOIs that have suddenly popped-up - mainly WKORV/N.

things to come? watch out below!


----------



## jerseygirl

saluki said:


> This WKV 2BR has been relisted on eBay. I wrote the seller that they had it mislabeled as Gold Season. They responded saying there is no Silver Season at WKV. I checked the StarOptions chart & technically they are correct. The old Silver Season is now Gold & the old Gold is "Gold Plus". I must have missed this "upgrade" notice.




And, a fine upgrade it was!    Thanks for the explanation -- trying to match the new II designations, I guess.  Although, I think they did a similiar "re-name" to my WSJ unit a year or so ago ...  from gold to platinum (vs. platinum plus) and from what I can tell all WSJs are coded WSJ-ALL in II ... no distinction between seasons.  I think the real motivation had to do with making their colors look prettier on the SO Chart.  Gold says so much more than silver, don't you think?


----------



## saluki

It reminds me of the upset Russian men's figure skater who decided to award himself a "Platinum Medal" after losing out on the gold in Vancouver.

I guess he did not know about "Gold Plus"!


----------



## DanCali

*WKORV EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Ocean Front Center (unit 253031) $22,100 (Feb 24, 2010)*

seller was redweeks4less

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350319390896


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKV 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148.1K SO - $19,357 (2/25/10)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557082686&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Interesting - WKV appears to be holding it's low-end price from sales during the last couple of years - whereas - WKORV S/N continue to drop


----------



## vistana101

*SVV 2 BD-platinum-81K SO-$2,026.01 (2/23/10) *

Seller was tochoa25


----------



## DanCali

DavidnRobin said:


> *WKV 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148.1K SO - $19,357 (2/25/10)*
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557082686&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Interesting - WKV appears to be holding it's low-end price from sales during the last couple of years - whereas - WKORV S/N continue to drop



FWIW, I posted a reasonable explanation not too long as as to why, in my opinion, this should be the case.

Of course if WKV MFs start to spiral out of control and it's becomes cheaper to rent comparabe accomodations in Hawaii than exchange there by owning WKV, then any value from the option to exchange will evaporate pretty quickly... If Marriott can run Canyon villas at less than $1000/year I hope Starwood can manage to keep a lid on MFs at least at this location.


----------



## Fredm

jerseygirl said:


> I think they did a similiar "re-name" to my WSJ unit a year or so ago ...  from gold to platinum (vs. platinum plus) and from what I can tell all WSJs are coded WSJ-ALL in II ... no distinction between seasons.  I think the real motivation had to do with making their colors look prettier on the SO Chart.  Gold says so much more than silver, don't you think?



I pine for the good old days of red, white and blue.
Granted, precious metals are sexier.
But precious stones are sexier yet. 
How about emerald, diamond, and ruby seasons?
They say so much more than the metals 

Are emeralds or diamonds the most precious?


----------



## bizaro86

Why stop at metals or gemstones. Think of the marketing power you could get out of being the only timeshare with kryptonite, or unobtanium seasons!

Michael


----------



## DanCali

*WKORV EOY (Odd) 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Ocean View $8300 (Feb 25, 2010)*

seller was seizethedayvacations

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557249954


----------



## DanCali

*WSJ Annual 3BR Pool Villa Week 28 104,100 SOs $15,401 (Feb 28, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270535551639

sold by owner


----------



## yumdrey

*SVV 3BR Key West*

*Sheraton Vistana Village, 3BR, Key West section, 118,000 StarOption, Odd years*
sold for $3,650 on ebay. Seller is sellingtimeguys


----------



## DanCali

yumdrey - can you please include a link to the auction? thanks!


----------



## yumdrey

*WKV, 2BR gold, 81000 SO*

*Westin Kierland Villas, 2BR gold season, 81000 staroption, annual*
sold for $3,250 on ebay.
Wow, it is going down!


----------



## yumdrey

DanCali said:


> yumdrey - can you please include a link to the auction? thanks!



item number is 330406713400
and here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/STAROPTIONS-SHE...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4cedc65838


----------



## amundson

DavidnRobin said:


> *WKV 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148.1K SO - $19,357 (2/25/10)*
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557082686&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Interesting - WKV appears to be holding it's low-end price from sales during the last couple of years - whereas - WKORV S/N continue to drop



I have some experience with this seller and I believe that the seller was bidding on his own auction on this one.  The winner had zero (0) feedback.  The same seller had another auction that had numerous bids by buyers with zero (0) feedback, but on the other auction the winner had a feedback of 1. So, two auctions and they both happened to be won by buyers with no feedback who are only interested in his timeshares.

Anyway, this seller is "siezethedayvacations" and what I believe the seller does is bid up the price to as high as possible with these fake accounts with no feedback.  They essentially top your highest offer and win their own auction.  I suppose they can give themselves feedback and pay the small fee to eBAy for selling a timeshare too.  But in the end, since they still have a TS to sell, they then come back to the next highest bidder with a "second-chance" offer.  This bidder gets offered a "similar, everything the same" timeshare because the seller happens to have a second one and by the way, the seller will sell it to you for the price of your highest bid.  That is what they did to me anyway, as I was the second high bidder on one of the auction listings sold by "siezethedayvacations".  I actually still wanted the timeshare, but still would not buy it, really only because it left a bad taste in my mouth and I am stubborn enough not to accept this practice.


----------



## Pita

*WKV ebay overpriced?*

I think the price for this unit was surprisingly high but 3 experienced buyers bid a max of: 16,700, 19,007 and 19,257.
Apparently, there are still some demand for WKV!


----------



## jarta

amundsun,   ...   This is an old eBay trick that is called "shill bidding."  It is supposed to be against eBay policy.  But, eBay does absolutely nothing to police "shill bidding."

The most egregious abuse is when a seller sets up a very high bid to be made at the last second on a luxury item.  It is made automatically.  Whatever you bid, the bidding machine bids more.

Another element is that "to protect the bidders' privacy" (lol!), the bidders full aliases are not visible.

You can see the automatic bids and when they were made by clicking to see additional bidding information.

Then, sometimes you are sent a "second offer" at the last shill bid price.  But, most of the time, the "buyer" refused to complete the deal and the property is merely relisted.

It's just another way of setting a reserve and talking to the bidders about how much they will go up to.  But, the reserve is not disclosed.  It's the biggest scam on eBay and one that someday a State Attorney General will bust wide open to eBay's embarrassment and dismay.   ...   eom


----------



## amundson

jarta said:


> amundsun,   ...   This is an old eBay trick that is called "shill bidding."  It is supposed to be against eBay policy.  But, eBay does absolutely nothing to police "shill bidding."
> 
> The most egregious abuse is when a seller sets up a very high bid to be made at the last second on a luxury item.  It is made automatically.  Whatever you bid, the bidding machine bids more.
> 
> Another element is that "to protect the bidders' privacy" (lol!), the bidders full aliases are not visible.
> 
> You can see the automatic bids and when they were made by clicking to see additional bidding information.
> 
> Then, sometimes you are sent a "second offer" at the last shill bid price.  But, most of the time, the "buyer" refused to complete the deal and the property is merely relisted.
> 
> It's just another way of setting a reserve and talking to the bidders about how much they will go up to.  But, the reserve is not disclosed.  It's the biggest scam on eBay and one that someday a State Attorney General will bust wide open to eBay's embarrassment and dismay.   ...   eom



Jarta, this is exactly how it was.  I hadn't heard the term shill bidding, but from your description of shill bidding, that is what it was, to a tee and all in the name of charity too.


----------



## DanCali

amundson said:


> I have some experience with this seller and I believe that the seller was bidding on his own auction on this one.  The winner had zero (0) feedback.  The same seller had another auction that had numerous bids by buyers with zero (0) feedback, but on the other auction the winner had a feedback of 1. So, two auctions and they both happened to be won by buyers with no feedback who are only interested in his timeshares.
> 
> Anyway, this seller is "siezethedayvacations" and what I believe the seller does is bid up the price to as high as possible with these fake accounts with no feedback.  They essentially top your highest offer and win their own auction.  I suppose they can give themselves feedback and pay the small fee to eBAy for selling a timeshare too.  But in the end, since they still have a TS to sell, they then come back to the next highest bidder with a "second-chance" offer.  This bidder gets offered a "similar, everything the same" timeshare because the seller happens to have a second one and by the way, the seller will sell it to you for the price of your highest bid.  That is what they did to me anyway, as I was the second high bidder on one of the auction listings sold by "siezethedayvacations".  I actually still wanted the timeshare, but still would not buy it, really only because it left a bad taste in my mouth and I am stubborn enough not to accept this practice.



I disagree that it happened in this case. 

First, IF this practice is employed, a seller can do this in a private auction where you can't see the bidders at all. Compare this list of bidders:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=220557082686

To this one:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=350319390896

Second, as other pointed out, there were quite a few experienced (counted by number of feedback) bidders in this auction who bid relatively close to the winning bid.

Third, the final price, although somewhat high for eBay sales for WKV, is not unusually out of line with resale prices in general and also a similar unit which sold on eBay a few months ago for around $17.1K. In my opinion, most resale buyers probably do not buy WKV just to vacation there all the time. If they liked Scottsdale that much they can buy SDO for a fraction of the price and lower MFs. Think of it this way, if you can use WKV to trade into WKORVN and WPORV most weeks out of the year at 8 months out and pay 1/2 of the maintenance fees then shouldn't it worth much more than WKORV and WPORV (assuming you don't need the prime view)? As long as these trading opportunities exist its basically a much cheaper way to own Hawaii (measured by MFs). And as long as those trading opportunities exist this should be reflected in the upfront purchase price. 

The reality is that these days there are only 3-4 WKV 2BR Platinum auctions each year and it's hard to infer what the "right" price should be because the sample is small. There is just not a lot of supply in general... 3 2BR units on RedWeek versus dozens of Hawaii units. The supply of 1BR Platinum units is even lower... Low supply and high demand translates to high prices. 

Moreover, the fact that WKV is now the unequivocal "best value" (in terms of SO/MF ratio) for StarOptions traders wheras 6 months ago SVV was a pretty reasonable alternative also means that some SVV buyers are now in the market for WKV. Again more demand should translate to higher prices.



jarta said:


> This is an old eBay trick that is called "shill bidding."  It is supposed to be against eBay policy.  But, eBay does absolutely nothing to police "shill bidding."



Lastly, unlike what jarta said, I happen to know that eBay puts significant effort in catching schill bidders. 

See, for example, this link:

http://www.aspkin.com/forums/ebay-s...ed-shill-bidding-any-chance-reinstatment.html

In addition, I know at least one person firsthand caught by eBay. A friend of mine from grad school who was scalping tickets to an NBA game was caught by eBay shill bidding using his brother's account (which had quite a bit of positive feedback). So to say they do nothing about it is simply incorrect.

That said, this practice probably continues to go on and is more likely to happen in the private auctions. I just don't think it happened in this case... I truly think a couple of people got a bit carried away and had a small bidding war which resulted in the item selling for maybe $1000 more that it otherwise would have. The favorable closing terms (low cost and 2011 first usage) may have also been a factor in people's willingness to bid high.


----------



## jarta

amundson,   ...   Here's a link to eBay's policy about shill bidding:

"Shill bidding 
Bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to other bidders. Shill bidding is not allowed on eBay." 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/account/glossary.html#S

Yet, it goes on and on and on.

That's one reason why not very many people trust eBay.  Good deals are possible, but there is too much trickery for most people to venture into the swamp.  

eBay, IMO, is merely a place for panic or liquidation sales of timeshares and bottom feeder purchasers (like me).  eBay does not make the market in timeshares.  Guys like JAMES1975NY or Fredm do.  The 5-10 Starwood forced or panicked sales a week on eBay are a tiny part of the timeshare market.  If you think Starwood is slimy, you should try dealing with some of the postcard companies on resales.  That's real slime.   ...   eom


----------



## jarta

DanCali,   ...   "most resale buyers probably do not buy WKV just to vacation there all the time. If they liked Scottsdale that much they can buy SDO for a fraction of the price and lower MFs.

I doubt you have ever been to either WKV or SDO.

SDO is old, tired, sleepy and good for trading.  The drab lobby is populated by what appear to be nursing home residents.  SDO is located close to nothing and is in the middle of and surrounded by new car dealerships.  You must have a car there to go anywhere or do anything.  However, SDO has a quaint charm that seems to appeal to people seeking absolute peace and quiet.

WKV is also good for trading.  But, it is much newer, better furnished, better designed, better views, has a hotel and a very upscale shopping center within walking distance of the resort where you can go shopping or find a restaurant (the resort will shuttle you to either), has better pools, a spa, golf, tennis and people own to go there.  WKV is in a league with WKORV, Lagunamar, Desert Willow, Riverbend and Harborside.

My wife took one walk around SDO, became depressed and said: "let's get out of here."  In a pinch it would do as basic, no-frills lodging.  But, side by side, there is no comparison.

There is a reason for the disparity in resale prices and it is not just that WKV is mandatory.   ...   eom


----------



## gmarine

jarta said:


> amundson,   ...   Here's a link to eBay's policy about shill bidding:
> 
> "Shill bidding
> Bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to other bidders. Shill bidding is not allowed on eBay."
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/account/glossary.html#S
> 
> Yet, it goes on and on and on.
> 
> That's one reason why not very many people trust eBay.  Good deals are possible, but there is too much trickery for most people to venture into the swamp.
> 
> eBay, IMO, is merely a place for panic or liquidation sales of timeshares and bottom feeder purchasers (like me).  eBay does not make the market in timeshares.  Guys like JAMES1975NY or Fredm do.  The 5-10 Starwood forced or panicked sales a week on eBay are a tiny part of the timeshare market.  If you think Starwood is slimy, you should try dealing with some of the postcard companies on resales.  That's real slime.   ...   eom




Not many people trust EBAY ?  Yes, as shown by the small amount of people who buy and sell on EBAY.   Seriously, you obviously dont have a lot of experience with EBAY which I understand, but EBAY does do a good job to try to prevent shill bidding.

Any EBAY seller with a good rating and good feedback isnt likely to risk suspension over shill bidding anyway.

EBAY has several ways in which they try to prevent shill bidding. They track IP addresses to try to prevent sellers from bidding on their own items with a different account and EBAY tracks bidders who have a history of bidding with only one or two sellers. Not to mention EBAY will check the history of all bidders on any auction with as little as one tip that shill bidding may have occurred.

If a seller is determined to have been shill bidding their account will be suspended from putting up auctions. They will also lose any Power Seller Discount as well as Top Seller status. Power Seller Discount on a timeshare seller could be several hundred dollars per month and up depending on how many are sold and the final selling price. Not something that a seller is going usually risk losing.

Abnormal selling prices happen all the time. It doesnt mean a shill bidder was at work. Uninformed buyers as well as buyers who refuse to be outbid account for many abnormal selling prices. Also keep in mind that on EBAY real estate auctions carry a disclaimer that they are not binding, so you will also get bidders who knowing it is not binding, will not follow through with the purchase. 

Shill bidding does happen but it is more likely to happen with a new seller than with an established seller.


----------



## DanCali

jarta said:


> I doubt you have ever been to either WKV or SDO.



True. And that is why I qualified my statement with "In my opinion" which I am sure you noticed but omitted when you quoted me...



DanCali said:


> *In my opinion,* most resale buyers probably do not buy WKV just to vacation there all the time...





jarta said:


> There is a reason for the disparity in resale prices and it is not just that WKV is mandatory.   ...   eom



And even though I have not been to either resort I'm still entitled to my opinion... 

If you didn't like the SDO comparison, then we compare with Marriott Canyon Villas, which, from what I read, is maybe a small step down from WKV but certainly better than SDO. You can buy the Marriott at much less than WKV, and pay 25% lower maintenance fees, and get the 24 day Marriott priority in II... So, in my opinion, it's hard to justify WKV Platinum prices unless you view it as a substitute for Hawaii properties, which comes from its mandatory aspect.

Can we at least agree that SVV is 200,000% more expensive than SVR, despite much higher maintenance fees, mainly because the former is mandatory and the later voluntary? I believe this is analogous. Yes, WKV is much nicer than SDO - I've been to other Westins and Sheratons and can imagine the difference. That said, I still believe (again, my opinion) that if WKV was a voluntary resort the resale price would be similar to SDO. Any difference in quality would is already accounted for by the WKV owner paying 80% more in maintenance fees - probably in perpetuity. I sincerely doubt you'd see much difference in the resale price. 

In any case, it's a counterfactual at this point so we'll probably never know...


----------



## DanCali

gmarine said:


> Not many people trust EBAY ?  Yes, as shown by the small amount of people who buy and sell on EBAY.   Seriously, you obviously dont have a lot of experience with EBAY which I understand, but EBAY does do a good job to try to prevent shill bidding.
> 
> Any EBAY seller with a good rating and good feedback isnt likely to risk suspension over shill bidding anyway.
> 
> EBAY has several ways in which they try to prevent shill bidding. They track IP addresses to try to prevent sellers from bidding on their own items with a different account and EBAY tracks bidders who have a history of bidding with only one or two sellers. Not to mention EBAY will check the history of all bidders on any auction with as little as one tip that shill bidding may have occurred.
> 
> If a seller is determined to have been shill bidding their account will be suspended from putting up auctions. They will also lose any Power Seller Discount as well as Top Seller status. Power Seller Discount on a timeshare seller could be several hundred dollars per month and up depending on how many are sold and the final selling price. Not something that a seller is going usually risk losing.
> 
> Abnormal selling prices happen all the time. It doesnt mean a shill bidder was at work. Uninformed buyers as well as buyers who refuse to be outbid account for many abnormal selling prices. Also keep in mind that on EBAY real estate auctions carry a disclaimer that they are not binding, so you will also get bidders who knowing it is not binding, will not follow through with the purchase.
> 
> Shill bidding does happen but it is more likely to happen with a new seller than with an established seller.



A couple of Finance Ph.Ds did some research and estimate that somewhere between 1%-2% of eBay bids are shill bids, so it's not an inconsquential amount. 

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=616782 (forthcoming in Journal of Economic Behavior and Organization)

A "good" shill bidder doesn't shill bid to win the auction and offer a second chance to the next bidder. Their goal actually is to bid in small increment just high enough to uncover the highest bidder's highest bid. Since people bid in round numbers, this can work as long as they don't get caught.

However it is true that, due to reputation and trust issues, this is something eBay wants and works hard to prevent.


----------



## jarta

DanCali,   ...   The article is over 3 years old.  Whatever shill bidding was in November of 2006, it's very rampant now.  Perhaps other sellers read the article and decided to use it.   

Here's the title of the llinked article:  "*EBay's Proxy System: A License to Shill*."  Sort of James Bond-like?  lol!

But, in your link, here's what the abstract of the article says:

"Abstract:      
We introduce a bidding strategy which allows the seller to extract the full surplus of the high bidder in eBay auctions. We call this a Discover-and-Stop bidding strategy and estimate that 1.39% of all bids in eBay auctions are placed by sellers (or accomplices) who execute this strategy. *We argue that this kind of shill bidding is unnecessarily effective due to eBay's proxy system and the predictability of other bidders' bids. We show that eBay could slightly modify its auction mechanism to reduce the shilling we describe. We also model eBay auctions with shill bidding and find that, in equilibrium, eBay's profits are higher with shilling than without it*. "

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=616782

Here's a Forbes article from 2000 about shill bidding on "Sleaze Bay":  http://www.forbes.com/asap/2000/1127/134.html

Read the first comment in this 2008 blog.  It talks about eBay's allowing hiding bidders identities, exactly what happens in recent shill bidding:  http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/law-wiki/5971-ebay-auction.html

It's gotten much worse since 2006.  It's changed and morphed.  It's become more sophisticated.  But, eBay's a great place to pick up a timeshare for cheap - as long as you're careful and realize the scams are out there.   ...   eom


----------



## Fredm

bizaro86 said:


> Why stop at metals or gemstones. Think of the marketing power you could get out of being the only timeshare with kryptonite, or unobtanium seasons!
> 
> Michael



WOW! Kriptonite. I can feel the power. 
Plutonium has punch also.


----------



## DavidnRobin

perhaps this discussion would be better in a eBay buying/selling thread - this is suppose to be focused on completed eBay auctions (see post #1) - with the caveat (of many) that some of these can be (and are) shill bids...


----------



## alexadeparis

I'm convinced that shill bidding took place in the auction of Westin Mission Hills I won last night. It's a Gold (low) season Eoy Odd 2 Bed L/O. I won it for $51.00, closing costs of $224. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...74976&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...74976&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1

Total price w/ all closing costs was $275.00. I suspect shill bidding because earlier in the week, I had lost the auction to another bidder, who a day or so later, retracted due to "wrong amount". Since the auction was private, I have no idea who bid, but I have a gut feeling that the "bid" and the subsequent "retraction" were simply to find out what my max bid was. It was 75 bucks, and, what do you know, a few hours before the auction ends, a bidder,again private, most likely the seller again, makes a bid that pushes my bid to exactly $275 w/ closing costs. 

I have over 500 feedback on Ebay,99% of which came from purchases (I rarely sell on Ebay), so I have a lot of experience. I told my husband about it and we agreed it was likely a shill. BTW, that was before I opened this thread and saw all this stuff about shill bidding. I only clicked on this thread to see if I got a good deal or not, I Still think I did.


----------



## jarta

amunson,   ...   "Jarta, this is exactly how it was. I hadn't heard the term shill bidding, but from your description of shill bidding, that is what it was, to a tee and all in the name of charity too."

Here is a recent example of shill bidding on eBay.

This seller sells luxury watches.  Most sellers are lucky in this economy to get any bids at all.  This seller, theprestigeboutique, always gets 20-35 bids on every item auctioned.  The item is a Pierre Kunz high grade watch.  It has been listed several times and high bids have been made - always by the automatic bidder at the end.

Here's the listing that expired on February 28.  Auction price; $9,850 with 24 bids:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280466521442&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Here's the relisting on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pierre-Kunz-18K...ViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item439dbe087a

Please note that the watch has now been relisted as a "Buy Now or Best Offer."

Here's a list of all the seller's current items:  

http://shop.ebay.com/theprestigeboutique/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 

He lists them as "No Reserve" auctions, but the automatic shill bidding is the reserve.  Then, if he can't get people to meet his "second offer" due to "a buyer who won't close the deal," he will reoffer and reoffer and reoffer the watch in another "No Reserve" auction.  If, after a few months, the watch doesn't sell, he switches to a "Buy Now or Best Offer" listing.

eBay will never get full accepatnce by the public until these type of scams are better policed by eBay.

But, eBay's a good place to pick up a panic or liquidation sale of a timeshare.   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

AGAIN... perhaps this discussion on eBay shill bidding would be better in a different thread...


----------



## gmarine

jarta said:


> amunson,   ...   "Jarta, this is exactly how it was. I hadn't heard the term shill bidding, but from your description of shill bidding, that is what it was, to a tee and all in the name of charity too."
> 
> Here is a recent example of shill bidding on eBay.
> 
> This seller sells luxury watches.  Most sellers are lucky in this economy to get any bids at all.  This seller, theprestigeboutique, always gets 20-35 bids on every item auctioned.  The item is a Pierre Kunz high grade watch.  It has been listed several times and high bids have been made - always by the automatic bidder at the end.
> 
> Here's the listing that expired on February 28.  Auction price; $9,850 with 24 bids:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280466521442&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Here's the relisting on eBay:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Pierre-Kunz-18K...ViewItemQQptZWristwatches?hash=item439dbe087a
> 
> Please note that the watch has now been relisted as a "Buy Now or Best Offer."
> 
> Here's a list of all the seller's current items:
> 
> http://shop.ebay.com/theprestigeboutique/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
> 
> He lists them as "No Reserve" auctions, but the automatic shill bidding is the reserve.  Then, if he can't get people to meet his "second offer" due to "a buyer who won't close the deal," he will reoffer and reoffer and reoffer the watch in another "No Reserve" auction.  If, after a few months, the watch doesn't sell, he switches to a "Buy Now or Best Offer" listing.
> 
> eBay will never get full accepatnce by the public until these type of scams are better policed by eBay.
> 
> But, eBay's a good place to pick up a panic or liquidation sale of a timeshare.   ...   eom



A seller will not be able to get away with shill bidding consistently, especially on high value items. As I said previously, EBAY tracks IP addresses among other things to control shill bidding. A seller could not consistenly use the same account to shill bid on his own auctions. And a seller with perfect feedback is not going to risk account suspension and policy violations that will affect the final values he pays. The final values fees of the seller you reference would amount to thousands per months, of which they would risk a 20% discount every month by shill bidding.

Shill bidding is mainly done by inexperienced sellers who have nothing to lose and dont know any better.  Experienced sellers with perfect feedback are not the ones to worry about.

And its called a Second Chance Offer. If your going to pretend you know something about the way EBAY works at least get the terms right.


----------



## DavidnRobin

wow - this sounds like a thread that should be on TUG Buying/Selling or TUG Lounge...


----------



## jarta

george,   ...   "If your going to pretend you know something about the way EBAY works at least get the terms right."

OK, OK, it's "Second Chance Offer," not "second offer."

Did you even look at what the links bring up?  IMO, shill bidding (automatic or no) is rampant on eBay.  We will just have to disagree about this.

And, as I keep saying, eBay is a great place to pick up a timeshare for an extremely low price because of panic or liquidation selling.   ...   eom


----------



## cdn_traveler

I agree with David, the bidding and shills discussion should be moved to the buying forum with its own thread.


----------



## K2Quick

WKV EOY Even Platinum 148k SO  Buy-It-Now at $5,499:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-Westin-Kier...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item19ba9b94d0

This one's still active, but seems like a really good bargain considering the last two annual units went for $17k and $19k.  I'm guessing this one goes quickly.  Alas, I'm not in the market.


----------



## DavidnRobin

K2Quick said:


> WKV EOY Even Platinum 148k SO  Buy-It-Now at $5,499:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-Westin-Kier...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item19ba9b94d0
> 
> This one's still active, but seems like a really good bargain considering the last two annual units went for $17k and $19k.  I'm guessing this one goes quickly.  Alas, I'm not in the market.



Well... it is now - lol - you were right - and they got free extra advertisment


----------



## DanCali

K2Quick said:


> WKV EOY Even Platinum 148k SO  Buy-It-Now at $5,499:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-Westin-Kier...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item19ba9b94d0
> 
> This one's still active, but seems like a really good bargain considering the last two annual units went for $17k and $19k.  I'm guessing this one goes quickly.  Alas, I'm not in the market.



Damn - I saw this one hour too late...

I'm not in the market too but I would have snapped it without even thinking twice and probably fliped it. It's as close as you can get to an arbitrage opportunity. Where else can you make an (almost guaranteed) 50%+ return in two months?


----------



## K2Quick

DanCali said:


> I'm not in the market too but I would have snapped it without even thinking twice and probably fliped it. It's as close as you can get to an arbitrage opportunity. Where else can you make an (almost guaranteed) 50%+ return in two months?



If I didn't have to answer to my wife, I probably would have done just that.  This particular seller seems to price a lot of inventory at buy-it-now prices that are half what typical auctions go for.


----------



## jarta

K2Quick,   ...   I won an eBay auction for a greattimesharebargains property last Fall.  It was for a Platinum week at Bella.  I bid because Bella is mandatory.

Jessica Miltier handles the money collection after the auction is completed.  She works for the selling agent, not the closing company.  The procedure was very mechanized.  However, because (then) the seller's closing company would not arrange for title insurance and the seller wanted all money to be sent to the selling agent, I backed out of the deal.  

greattimesharebargains tried to initiate a "non-payor" strike against me through eBay.  However, when I said to eBay that the money went to the selling agent (not the closing company) and that the closing company was not licensed in Washington and could not provide title insurance, the non-payment complaint was dropped.

greattimesharebargains is the selling agent (and obviously related) to a purchaser of timeshares in foreclosure proceedings and by deed in lieu of foreclosure or "post card."  Callahan & Zalinsky Associates, LLC.  It was on the estoppel letter I obtained from Jessica (actually a nice lady) for the Bella property.

The problem with foreclosures is that you have to be careful about the proper steps being taken in the foreclosure process.  If the proper steps have not been taken, the deed may later be set aside.  So, IMO, it's important to get title insurance with a purchase from someone who acquired title in a foreclosure proceeding.

The fact that foreclosures can be picked up cheaply is the reason greattimesharebargains can sell so cheaply.  The buyer is in (and out) very quickly so that the money can be recirculated into the next foreclosure buying opportunity.  It's a "rate of return" business where the worth of the timeshare is really irrelevant if the price set in the eBay auction gives an acceptable return on the investment.

The ads now say that title insurance can be purchased for a fairly high fee from the closing company.  The fee is probably higher than normal because of the risk of claims from the foreclosure.

Bid and buy.  But, be very careful.   ...   eom


----------



## jarta

Somebody at Callahan & Zalinsky Associates, LLC has a sense of humor.  The characters are right out of the movie "Tommy Boy."

Chris Farley played Tommy Callahan; Dan Akroyd played Ray Zalinsky.  lol! 

http://www.bcgov.net/MasterInEquity/foreclosureWebDisplay.php

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1T9TJFRTYZQDG


----------



## abdibile

K2Quick said:


> WKV EOY Even Platinum 148k SO  Buy-It-Now at $5,499:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-Westin-Kier...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item19ba9b94d0
> 
> This one's still active, but seems like a really good bargain considering the last two annual units went for $17k and $19k.  I'm guessing this one goes quickly.  Alas, I'm not in the market.



The quoted MFs of $1350 are per  use, so half of it billed every year, correct? (wrong info in the ad)

But they want reimbursement of the full $1350 for 2010 usage where getting a good wek is probably hard as 51/52 probably booked out so not much left in Platinums season.

Adding this "lost" 2010 usage, the price is still low, but nothing like a sure 50% flipping profit or what do I get wrong?


----------



## Ken555

abdibile said:


> But they want reimbursement of the full $1350 for 2010 usage where getting a good wek is probably hard as 51/52 probably booked out so not much left in Platinums season.



It is common to pay for the current year usage costs with a new purchase. And, as a mandatory resort, the 148,100 StarOptions for this years usage can be used at any other SVN property within 8 months of arrival date. So, the use is actually quite good for this year, though it all depends on where you would want to visit. And with SVNs recent announcement that you can reserve a short (less than a week) stay now up thru end of November, it makes this a particularly good year to try a SVN ownership.


----------



## DavidnRobin

An entertaining discussing - reminder - do not post open eBay auctions on this thread - this was intended for completed auctions
{and could be construed as skirting TUG rules for advertisements of TS selling... even though I understand this was not the case in this instance...}

btw (as my papa used to say...)  - if it sounds to good to be true - then it probably is...
Buyer beware (caveat emptor)


----------



## DanCali

DanCali said:


> *WKORV EY 2BR Platinum (1-50) 148,100 SOs Ocean Front Center (unit 253031) $22,100 (Feb 24, 2010)*
> 
> seller was redweeks4less
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350319390896



Looks like this one didn't close... relisted a couple of hours ago.


----------



## oneohana

DanCali said:


> Looks like this one didn't close... relisted a couple of hours ago.



This will be the second time it is relisted. The last one ended on 3/10/10 with a final bid of $16.2K


----------



## DanCali

oneohana said:


> This will be the second time it is relisted. The last one ended on 3/10/10 with a final bid of $16.2K



I wonder if the buyers are backing out or the seller is unhappy with the price...


----------



## jarta

Shill bidding?   ...   eom


----------



## Fredm

Or pimping inventory they do not control.


----------



## K2Quick

Lakside Terrace Platinum Float 1-15, 48-50, Annual 2 Bed  $1,832

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370344083084&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

If these units locked off, I would have been all over this auction.  I think a poor title on the auction led to a lower final bid price.


----------



## okwiater

Vistana Villages Bella phase - $1 + free closing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380212301048


----------



## DanCali

okwiater said:


> Vistana Villages Bella phase - $1 + free closing
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380212301048



This item was listed as "5-Star 2 Bedroom LockOff Disney Timeshare For Sale!!"

With no "Vistana Villages" and/or "Shetaton" and/or "Staroptions" in the title this one probably went under the radar. Despite the high maintenace fees, these still have some value greater than zero.


----------



## Robert D

K2Quick said:


> Lakside Terrace Platinum Float 1-15, 48-50, Annual 2 Bed  $1,832
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370344083084&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> If these units locked off, I would have been all over this auction.  I think a poor title on the auction led to a lower final bid price.



The other factor is you had to pay the 2010 $922 maintenance fee (it should be about $100 less than that) and closing costs of over $500.  Even though you have to pay the 2010 maintenance fee you won't be able to use it for a prime ski week this year and the closing costs are inflated by at least $200.  So, considering this I think the real selling price is about $3,000 which might still be a decent price for an annual 2BR ski week but not a steal.


----------



## DanCali

*WKV EY 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148K SO - $17,100 (March 16, 2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220557088925

seller: seizethedayvacations (not a "private" auction)


----------



## tschwa2

Westin Kaanapali Ocean Villas EY 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148K SO - $3,823.77 (March 19, 2010)  deeded as 8211/12

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320499347779&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

seller:cherishthetime

EBay Title:Exotic PREMIER 2 Bedroom Hawaii LockOff Timeshare!!
NO Reserve-Plus Optional FREE Timeshare - No Gimmicks!!


----------



## DeniseM

If the unit number in the Ad is correct, this is an ocean front unit at WKORVN

8 = bldg. 8
2 = 2nd floor
11/12 = units 11 & 12

That's amazing, if true.


----------



## DanCali

tschwa2 said:


> Westin Kaanapali Ocean Villas EY 2Bd LO - Platinum - 148K SO - $3,823.77 (March 19, 2010)  deeded as 8211/12
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320499347779&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> seller:cherishthetime
> 
> EBay Title:Exotic PREMIER 2 Bedroom Hawaii LockOff Timeshare!!
> NO Reserve-Plus Optional FREE Timeshare - No Gimmicks!!



IMO the price is a reflection of a poor listing rather than the true value of the unit. Title didn't include any of the words "Westin," " Kaanapali," "Starwood" or "Staroptions". Based on recent sales prices, the buyer could probably flip it tomorrow for at least a $10K profit.


----------



## Maui55

*Experience with eBay seller siezethedayvacations*



amundson said:


> I have some experience with this seller and I believe that the seller was bidding on his own auction on this one.  The winner had zero (0) feedback.  The same seller had another auction that had numerous bids by buyers with zero (0) feedback, but on the other auction the winner had a feedback of 1. So, two auctions and they both happened to be won by buyers with no feedback who are only interested in his timeshares.
> 
> Anyway, this seller is "siezethedayvacations" and what I believe the seller does is bid up the price to as high as possible with these fake accounts with no feedback.  They essentially top your highest offer and win their own auction.  I suppose they can give themselves feedback and pay the small fee to eBAy for selling a timeshare too.  But in the end, since they still have a TS to sell, they then come back to the next highest bidder with a "second-chance" offer.  This bidder gets offered a "similar, everything the same" timeshare because the seller happens to have a second one and by the way, the seller will sell it to you for the price of your highest bid.  That is what they did to me anyway, as I was the second high bidder on one of the auction listings sold by "siezethedayvacations".  I actually still wanted the timeshare, but still would not buy it, really only because it left a bad taste in my mouth and I am stubborn enough not to accept this practice.



I wanted to give some feedback from my actual experience with siezethedayvacations which was referenced on some recent sales in the forum.  Particularly, post #395 where the author stated his belief that this seller is conducting bad faith auctions with a  shill.  I will provide you with my experience and you can decide if siezethedayvacations should be assumed to be doing anything other than legitimate business.  I was the 2nd highest bidder in the sale referenced in post #389 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220557249954).  I received a 2nd chance offer a couple of days later.  I emailed the seller stating in part: "... At best the bidding was artificially inflated by an invalid bidder.  At worst a shill was used."  siezethedayvacations phoned me to address my concerns.  They provided what to me is more than a satisfactory response.  I have seen the eBay communications with the winning bidder after the auction.  The winning bidder refused to accept the auction's stated payment terms and was insisting on only paying 20% down.  In my cordial and open discussion with siezethedayvacations they also rolled back the price to the point where the other bidder entered the auction.  I felt that the candid nature of their disclosure and their rolling back my price to exclude the raised bids of the high bidder were more than fair.  This is my experience.  You decide if there is evidence to question their honesty via this forum.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Post #395 was not my post - it was amundson - please retract.*
I was not the one discussing shill auctions - I asked to move  the discussion to another thread as this thread is for completed eBay auctions...

I have no horse in this race... however, I do warn everyone to exercise caution in eBay auctions (I have purchased a TS via eBay, and used caution).  I do believe that some eBay auctions do have shills - I have witnessed it in watching auctions, and they are used as a tactic in 2nd offers.


----------



## LisaRex

Maui55 said:


> This is my experience.  You decide if there is evidence to question their honesty via this forum.



Welcome to Tug.  I hope you stick around and become an active member here.  But, I have to tell you, when someone with no posting experience comes into a forum to give a glowing review of some little-known company, my first reaction is most certainly not, "Wow, that makes me feel better about this company."  In fact, it's quite the contrary.  It makes me feel as if someone who has a vested interest in the company has done a simple Google search and is going about the web sprinkling happy dust on any and all criticisms in order to assauge legitimate doubts. 

I've interacted with DavidnRobin for about 3 years now.  And I'll trust his judgment over yours for no other reason than because he has proven his legitimacy over the long-term.   If you'd like to be taken more seriously, I'd suggest you stick around and comment on things OTHER than "seizethedayvacations."  Because your post has made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.  And my hairs have rarely led me astray.


----------



## Maui55

LisaRex said:


> It makes me feel as if someone who has a vested interest in the company has done a simple Google search and is going about the web sprinkling happy dust on any and all criticisms in order to assauge legitimate doubts.



Lisa, I understand your skepticism.  You have no reason to trust me.  I have no vested interest in this company and my experience with them is real.  I am curious as to what evidence might help you form a more educated judgement as to the honesty of my post.  I have the ebay & paypal communications verifying me as the purchaser of said timeshare.  I would be happy to provide copy of title upon receipt.  I was hoping to only add value and some experiential evidence related to an unsubstantiated claim earlier.

To DavidNRobin - I am sincerely sorry that I referenced you in error in my original post.  This error has been corrected.  Thank you for bringing it to my attention.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Thanks.

Also - I agree with Lisa's post - based on experience here on TUG - these types of posts are all too common - and therefore skepticism...
(I am not make that claim - just an observation)

It may have been better just to state that you purchased a TS off of ebay from 'siezetheday' - what the SVO VOI was - the details where pertainent - and how the transaction went... instead it comes off as a defense of 'std' and therefore... skepticism of the intent of the post.

just saying...
(not much different when people post eBay auctions that are still open... what is their intent?}

best.


----------



## LisaRex

Maui55 said:


> I am curious as to what evidence might help you form a more educated judgement as to the honesty of my post.



Lots of things, but most importantly you should stop pre-occupying yourself with defending "SiezeTheDayVacations" because, remember, you have no vested interest in the company.


----------



## jarta

Maui55,   ...   Welcome to TUG.  lol!  For some people there is no evidence you could ever produce that would change their mind about your 2 post preoccupation.

They see corporate shills and plants under their beds all the time.

BTW, the end result of automatic "shill bidding" is usually a "second chance offer."  If you took it, you probably were the highest true bidder and, after reflecting on the bids, the seller decided that relisting wouldn't generate a higher bid.  However, if you had a rewarding experience and are happy with the price you paid, it's all good.  

Enjoy your timeshare!  Like I do, use it to get out of the Chicago winters.  I was at WKV last week.  It's a great place to vacation.   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> Lots of things, but most importantly you should stop pre-occupying yourself with defending "SiezeTheDayVacations" because, remember, you have no vested interest in the company.



[x] exactly

[ ] sees corporate shills/plants under bed


----------



## mkfisher

Westin 2-BR LockOff 5 STAR Cancun MEXICO Golf TIMESHARE
Sale date: 03/21/10       $4,250.00   EOY  Platinum Plus $604 MF
Not listed as Lagunamar

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360244137437&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


----------



## DavidnRobin

mkfisher said:


> Westin 2-BR LockOff 5 STAR Cancun MEXICO Golf TIMESHARE
> Sale date: 03/21/10       $4,250.00   EOY  Platinum Plus $604 MF
> Not listed as Lagunamar
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360244137437&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT



Ouch - I had a work colleague (whose husband didn't listen to my rescind advice) that paid $20K more than this for a lesser unit at Lagunamar.

...but at least that get the benefit of coverting their SOs to SPs... that should be worth the extra $20K they spent...


----------



## Ken555

[ ] exactly

[ ] sees corporate shills/plants under bed

[x] agrees with all conspiracy theories regardless of evidence at all times


----------



## ginja

*I feel sick....recent Ebay sale WKORV 3/24/10*

148K Staroptions MAUI Hawaii WESTIN KAANAPALI Timeshare
Two Bedroom LOCK-OFF GardenView NORTH BUILDING:

Winning bid:	US $4,850.00


----------



## DanCali

ginja said:


> 148K Staroptions MAUI Hawaii WESTIN KAANAPALI Timeshare
> Two Bedroom LOCK-OFF GardenView NORTH BUILDING:
> 
> Winning bid:	US $4,850.00



I think I saw this one. It was an EOY ownership (odd years).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360244472225

(useful to include a link)


----------



## ginja

your right it was ODD years WKORV that sold for US $4,850.00, but that still means every year would sell for less than $10K

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360244472225&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## DanCali

ginja said:


> your right it was ODD years WKORV that sold for US $4,850.00, but that still means every year would sell for less than $10K
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360244472225&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



That's pretty much the price these days on eBay for an Island View. An OV may sell for around $15K. 

The thing is that when the news regarding the Maui tax came out last year everyone knew prices would tank but they had a 4-5 month window before the news got fully priced and MFs became public to sell for 50% more. Most people get anchored to what they bought for and refuse to take a large loss, but sometimes taking a large loss is better than taking a larger loss... (or effectively paying $8K for the 2010 vacation).

I wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel for the WKORV/N resorts. Getting Jeff on the board would have been a great start...


----------



## DeniseM

*WPORV EOY 2 bdm. Buy it now - $8,500*

WPORV EOY 2 bdm. L/O Buy it now - $8,500 4/13/10

http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-Princevi...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item414e7b4012

Usage starts this year.  They are asking for the 2010 MF - but not 2009 (in other words, you'd get to use 2010 for half the MF.)


----------



## RLOGO

DeniseM said:


> WPORV EOY 2 bdm. L/O Buy it now - $8,500 4/13/10
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-Princevi...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item414e7b4012
> 
> Usage starts this year.  They are asking for the 2010 MF - but not 2009 (in other words, you'd get to use 2010 for half the MF.)




I know this is a Starwood board but for comparison, this 2BR Marriott Maui EOY sold for ($16,000), double or 3X what the WKORV are selling for.  Starwood is self destructing with the high MF's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Timeshare-at-Ma...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item25596ad909


----------



## amundson

I thought WKV was a sought after resort because just 2 months back the platinums were selling for $17k and $19k.  But, this auction just recently closed and there were no takers even for a dollar.

Granted the buyer would have had to pay 2009 Maintenance fees, but still 81,000 staroptions for a dollar and the lowest ongoing MFs at a mandatory resort.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350336288361&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## RLOGO

> Granted the buyer would have had to pay 2009 Maintenance fees, but still 81,000 staroptions for a dollar and the lowest ongoing MFs at a mandatory resort....




It is the 2010 MF's but you still have use for this year.


----------



## Ken555

amundson said:


> I thought WKV was a sought after resort because just 2 months back the platinums were selling for $17k and $19k.  But, this auction just recently closed and there were no takers even for a dollar.



There's a big difference in value between Platinum and Gold weeks at WKV. The savvy buyer won't buy a 2-bed Gold week unless the intent is to use in that season at that resort. The best value for 81K SOs at WKV is a Platinum small large 1-bed. 

And the occasional eBay listing can't be used as an indication of the market in general. If this is the start of a trend and we see a number of auctions end with no bidders like this, even though this particular auction has some negatives, then it would be a different matter.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I concur with Ken (except the value is more for the large 1Bd).  WKV Gold is not of high value - especially compared to Platinum.  It is very hard to find reasonably priced WKV 1Bd Prem (large)/Plat - I have watched for them for years (not extensively) - I own two of them - and not many pass thru the major resale sites (note - I said reasonably priced).  Someone did find a super deal on one from eBay (but they failed to list it was a Westin).

I say the large 1bd (Prem) is a better value than the small 1Bd (Dlx) because it comes with 81K SO (vs. 67.1K SO) - and as a SO amount has more options within SVN - and this allows for SVN exchange into a 1Bd in HI (vs. a studio).  The eBay price difference between the small and large 1Bd reflects this.

If you buy WKV resale - I would recommended Plat only, and a minimum of 81K SO.  btw, SVO does not have a ROFR for WKV.


----------



## amundson

I am buying WKV right now.  It is building 4.   2 BR/LO.  148,100 Staroptions.  annual use, platinum.

I thnk I am getting a good deal.  Buying from craigslist from a guy named Brandon Hill, using JRA Services out of Florida.  Any experience with either of them?

I have been watching WKV 2BRs on eBay for about a year and found this on Craigslist by accident one day...


----------



## jarta

My suggestion is to get an estoppel letter concerning this purchase.  That document will show who the HOA and Starwood show as the "owner of record" of the week and whether the MF are current.

Price is up to you.  But, if the week is a 2-br lockoff at WKV in Platinum season, I would recommend purchasing title insurance to protect your investment.  GLTY.   ...   eom


----------



## amundson

$16,500.  i am thinking i will do title insurance and let JRA do the rest.  I saw some other posts on here saying they were reputable and even recommending them so I am not too worried.  sound right to you jarta?


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> I concur with Ken (except the value is more for the large 1Bd).



Oops! Corrected, thx.


----------



## jarta

amundson,   ...   $16,500 is a good price today.  I paid $3,500 more on eBay about 2 years ago.

Today's good price can be tomorrow's very good price.  It can also be tomorrow's bad price.

I buy TS for the vacation enjoyment.  Worrying about whether $16,500 or $15,000 is the best price or about the money I have "lost" by buying at WKV is something I just do not do.  

Buy where you want to go in the season you want to visit there and never, ever overbuy.  If you proceed that way, the price you pay can include some wiggle-room.

Even if you are only getting 2011 first use, it's time to have the buyer call for a reservation you want.  Right now we are in week 14.  Time's a wastin' for making Platinum 2011 reservations at WKV.  Don't wait to reserve until you actually are the owner.  However, as soon as you are, call Starwood to make your own reservation or to be sure the name change has not triggered a cancellation of the 2011 reservation made for you (usually it does not - at least right away).

If you have never been to WKV, I am sure you will love it when you get there.  If you have been there before, you know what I am talking about.  I was there 4 weeks ago.  GLTY.   ...   eom


----------



## jarta

Ken,   ...   How the heck do you get the overstrike to work for corrections?  TIA.   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

amundson said:


> $16,500.  i am thinking i will do title insurance and let JRA do the rest.  I saw some other posts on here saying they were reputable and even recommending them so I am not too worried.  sound right to you jarta?



I am of the opposite mind when it comes to Title Insurance (this is different than a Title Search), but that of course depends on the circumstances. If it looks clean-cut, then TI is expensive for the value added. You can look at the Mariposa County Recorders Office for the Title History, and SVO Title can tell you about outstanding loans and MFs.  TI is only as good as the Insuring Company.  YMMV and JMO

JRA is reputable - discuss TI with them.


----------



## brigechols

jarta said:


> Ken,   ...   How the heck do you get the overstrike to work for corrections?  TIA.   ...   eom




Look at your tool bar for the icon ABC  to overstrike selected text.


----------



## jarta

Thank you.      ...   eom


----------



## DanCali

amundson said:


> I thought WKV was a sought after resort because just 2 months back the platinums were selling for $17k and $19k.  But, this auction just recently closed and there were no takers even for a dollar.
> 
> Granted the buyer would have had to pay 2009 Maintenance fees, but still 81,000 staroptions for a dollar and the lowest ongoing MFs at a mandatory resort.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350336288361&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



Even a Gold 2BR is worth about $4K these days.

The reason you see zero bids is because the seler ended the auction early... The highest bid at the time was $2550.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=350336288361

The auction was supposed to end at 9:40pm (I know this from the eBay new items alert email I got) but the seller ended it about 30 minutes early.


----------



## DanCali

amundson said:


> i am thinking i will do title insurance and let JRA do the rest.  I saw some other posts on here saying they were reputable and even recommending them so I am not too worried.  sound right to you jarta?



I wouldn't hesitate to get title insurance for this purchase price. It should cost you about $300-$350... (about 2% of purchase price)


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WKORVN 2Bd OF (EY) - $8989*

*WKORVN 2Bd OF (EY) - $8988.88 *(4/9/10)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390177424398

ouch...

however - seller (vaca4life2) rating is low (93.9%)
This eBay ad style looks like the typical Resort Closings Inc. (Tarpey Bros.) TS offer - not sure they would use one of their poorer seller ratings eBay IDs on this auction?

The auction has a few flaws (normal for these guys) - the resort and address in the Items Specifics (top of ad) is wrong - listed as Kaanapali Beach Club.  The ad description has the correct address for WKORVN.

The unit is listed as deeded as 5317/19 - this is not a OF villa.

[comment deleted.]Not surprised that the eBay seller rating is low - what does it take to get teh auction info correct - 5 minutes?

These are good reasons to be careful when buying on eBay - this auction will return (mark my words...).

2010 usage and associated MFs still to be used.


----------



## PamMo

DavidnRobin said:


> *WKORVN 2Bd OF (EY) - $8988.88 *(4/9/10)
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390177424398
> 
> ouch....



Sale was cancelled. It was island view and I really want at least oceanview. Oceanfront at that price would have been great, though!

Pam


----------



## timesharepro

DavidnRobin said:


> *WKORVN 2Bd OF (EY) - $8988.88 *(4/9/10)
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390177424398
> 
> ouch...
> 
> however - seller (vaca4life2) rating is low (93.9%)
> This eBay ad style looks like the typical Resort Closings Inc. (Tarpey Bros.) TS offer - not sure they would use one of their poorer seller ratings eBay IDs on this auction?
> 
> The auction has a few flaws (normal for these guys) - the resort and address in the Items Specifics (top of ad) is wrong - listed as Kaanapali Beach Club.  The ad description has the correct address for WKORVN.
> 
> The unit is listed as deeded as 5317/19 - this is not a OF villa.
> 
> [comment deleted]
> Not surprised that the eBay seller rating is low - what does it take to get teh auction info correct - 5 minutes?
> 
> These are good reasons to be careful when buying on eBay - this auction will return (mark my words...).
> 
> 2010 usage and associated MFs still to be used.





Dear DavidnRobin,

Please accept my apologies on behalf of the new sales agent that we have. Everyone makes mistakes. It was his second listing, and I will take responsibility for the error, as I was in charge of looking over the listings.  The negative feedback was from a sales person, before the most recent, that did not work out (lasted a little over a month). Training is continuing with the new agent and I am making sure his auctions are up to your standards.

[comment deleted] 
We do make mistakes, and we do everything in our power to correct those mistakes when they happen. I personally have been selling on ebay for 27 months and there are still properties that I do not know everything about. Some people are gracious when they know more about the property and  let me know. Others are not... and those few people generally are not sold to following their comments. We know much about many resorts, but know everything about very few resorts. We strive to make everything as correct as possible, as that makes our job easier, buyers happier, transfers done quicker. However sometimes things happen. 

[comment deleted]
In the future, if you (or anyone reading this) see a mistake on any of our auctions (ebay ids:  timesharepro2, snownsun4ever, vaca4life2) please let us know.  

Right now, I am going to put some ads up on ebay, and go breathe some clean Montana air.[comment deleted]

John Kushman (timesharepro2, snownsun4ever) 
on behalf of Keith Hart (vaca4life2)


----------



## DeniseM

I have edited 2 posts in this thread that had comments that were not courteous.  Please let it go now.


John - please be very careful not to promote your company on TUG.  We have a very strict no-advertising rule.  I know you were responding to a specific post, so I will cut you a little slack, but usually, posting your eBay ID's would violate our no-advertising rules.


----------



## Fredm

DanCali said:


> I wouldn't hesitate to get title insurance for this purchase price. It should cost you about $300-$350... (about 2% of purchase price)



Gee, that seems high for TI.

Max, it should not be more than $250 for a purchase under $70,000, if not padded by the broker or escrow company.

Most of our transactions come in between $180-200, with Chicago or Stuart Title underwriting.
California is a bit higher, but not over $250.


----------



## DavidnRobin

timesharepro said:


> Dear DavidnRobin,
> 
> Please accept my apologies on behalf of the new sales agent that we have. Everyone makes mistakes. It was his second listing, and I will take responsibility for the error, as I was in charge of looking over the listings.  The negative feedback was from a sales person, before the most recent, that did not work out (lasted a little over a month). Training is continuing with the new agent and I am making sure his auctions are up to your standards.
> 
> [comment deleted]
> We do make mistakes, and we do everything in our power to correct those mistakes when they happen. I personally have been selling on ebay for 27 months and there are still properties that I do not know everything about. Some people are gracious when they know more about the property and  let me know. Others are not... and those few people generally are not sold to following their comments. We know much about many resorts, but know everything about very few resorts. We strive to make everything as correct as possible, as that makes our job easier, buyers happier, transfers done quicker. However sometimes things happen.
> 
> [comment deleted]
> In the future, if you (or anyone reading this) see a mistake on any of our auctions (ebay ids:  timesharepro2, snownsun4ever, vaca4life2) please let us know.
> 
> Right now, I am going to put some ads up on ebay, and go breathe some clean Montana air.[comment deleted]
> 
> John Kushman (timesharepro2, snownsun4ever)
> on behalf of Keith Hart (vaca4life2)



wow - I seem to have hit a sore spot.

*I did send an email to the seller regarding the inaccurate aspects of an auction (most importantly that it was not OF and the resort address was wrong)* - as I will sometimes do when I see glowing inaccuracies in an eBay auction.  Some sellers are appreciative - most do not respond, or respond to tell me that I am wrong (lol). First time one showed up here to bash me for doing so.  I have no obligation to contact the seller - as my purpose is to inform Tuggers (number 1) in cases such as Ebay ads gone astray (in an eBay sales thread that I started).  I have sent messages before to your sellers about inaccurate auctions for WSJ.

As a Tugger - I was letting my TUG colleagues know in case they were looking at bidding (which one did apparently...).  This is something that will not stop while I contribute to TUG whether (or not) I feel compelled to notify the steller (given the timing and effort - and clear lack of gratitude - lol)

I welcome you joining TUG discussion (although DeniseM will make you follow guidelines) - your group could learn a lot here - as well as us from you (hopefully).  We have 2 well-informed TS brokers here on the SVO forum (Fred and James) and they are great contributors and well as learning from us as well (and I assume get a few leads here and there from TUG).

btw - it may be good to tell your sales people to post a question on TUG if they are unsure - to get an answer quickly (w/o promoting of course) - in this case... "What is the view catagory for villa xxxxx at WKORVN?" Two mins of time for a VOI valued at$1000s may be worthwhile...

btw - I bought a WSJ TS from your group (Donate-for-a Cause, Go Vacations, Resort Closings) that had an inaccurate descriptions - luckily that worked out for me due to the likelihood that it lowered the bid.

PS to Denise M - I am not sure of what comment I made (on the fly) that was not following TUG guidlines for courtesy.  Please let me know next time and I will happily edit.  I was not intending to offend - I was merely stating an observation based on years of perusing eBay ads for Westin VOIs.


----------



## mkfisher

DavidnRobin- I believe you are seeing this issue correctly and I appreciate your value-added contributions!


----------



## timesharepro

DavidnRobin,

Thanks for the reply . The sore spot was just the quick remark on the Montana air and the IQ. It hits a chord, personally and professionally, especially when speaking about a company I work for and have helped grow in the 3 years I have been here. I appreciate the email to Keith about the inaccuracy of the auction.  

Please let me know if there is something I can do to make our auctions more friendly for Tuggers as well as others, and I will continue to contribute to the tug forums.

I see that you purchased the WSJ, a couple of years before I was here, and I can tell you I wish we were still getting those prices.

Thanks,
John Kushman


----------



## DavidnRobin

timesharepro said:


> DavidnRobin,
> 
> Thanks for the reply . The sore spot was just the quick remark on the Montana air and the IQ. It hits a chord, personally and professionally, especially when speaking about a company I work for and have helped grow in the 3 years I have been here. I appreciate the email to Keith about the inaccuracy of the auction.
> 
> Please let me know if there is something I can do to make our auctions more friendly for Tuggers as well as others, and I will continue to contribute to the tug forums.
> 
> I see that you purchased the WSJ, a couple of years before I was here, and I can tell you I wish we were still getting those prices.
> 
> Thanks,
> John Kushman



Sorry for the comment - I was being sarcastic (and writing too quickly) - I honestly didn't recall the deleted comment (DeniseM said it had to do with IQ, but I thought she was joking... that of course is over the top) - I must have been having a bad day at work and the overt inaccuracy of the auction set me off.

I edited my post above with a suggestion - and that is to tell your sales people about TUG and feel free to ask questions (as long as you are not promoting).  However, you are allowed to put a link to your company in your signature (one of those weird grey-area TUG rules).

The posts here are dynamic - meaning (like in this instance) the auction was about to end when the comments were made.  I just happened to open my saved searches on eBay - and thought 'What a Deal - an OF WKORVN for under $10K!' (heck - I almost bid...), but upon further review found the faults - and posted them.

My eBay WSJ auction years ago was pretty much what they are currently selling for - unfortunately the MFs have doubled causing an Owner revolt that is getting nasty.

You should note that WSJ Virgin Grand (Hillside) VOIs are actually fixed weeks (including checkin day) and fixed units (even though SVO states they can float - factually true, but rare)  Also, the current MFs has a Special Assessment (ending in 2011) that is about 50% over the base MFs.

Understanding what SVO resorts are SVN Voluntary and Mandatory (and the implications) would also be useful in auctions as too many buy resale V+M resorts thinking thay maintain SO to SP conversion.  Plus V resorts do not allow for use of SVN exchanging.  Many eBay auctions do not capture this accurately.

Now go enjoy that fresh air...


----------



## DeniseM

To add to what David said - if you haven't already, you might want to read the Starwood FAQ at the top of the forum, or have your new sales person read it.  It is a fairly concise summary of the main points of Starwood ownership.

You and your staff are more than welcome to post here.  We appreciate hearing from the dark side  as long as you aren't promoting your business.


----------



## PamMo

*A pretty stand up guy from my experience*

My two bits worth. I was the winning bidder on that oceanfront/island view unit at WKORV-N for $8988.88. I was thrilled and surprised that I won the bid, and was hoping that it was at least an oceanview. I am well aware that eBay ads are often full of errors - even when the actual owner does the listing (mistakes are definitely not unique to resellers). Yes, the ad was wrong. Confusing. But that's why buyers need to do due diligence. When it was confirmed to be an island view through the resort, I spoke with the obviously new salesman, and then John, who was very cordial. The sale was cancelled and we moved on. I was out nothing. He was out his listing fee.

There are sellers I wouldn't touch with the proverbial ten foot pole, but I would buy from John in the future if he had what I want. I thought he was a pretty stand up guy. (But, oh!!! How I wish that WKORV-N unit was oceanview!!!!!!!!    ) Heck, it's looking like $9,000 is a very good price for island view now - maybe I _should _have gone through with the sale?  (No. I like seeing the water out my window...)


----------



## DavidnRobin

I would definitely agree that many Owners know less about their Ownership than TS brokers (especially the lack of SO-SP conversion, and V resorts losing SVN upon resale).


----------



## trader14

I won the following, called the title company and they verified all information, 2 bd lockoff annual with island view.  It's a lot of money and i'm still nervous based on what i have read here.  can the thetimesharecompany.com be trusted?

WKORVN 2Bd Island View (EY) - $6,156.51 (4/7/10) plus $435 closing plus2010 maint

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&view=all&item=220579204212&tid=0&ssPageName=ADME:X:UPIOB:US:1123


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## trader14

DavidnRobin said:


> I would definitely agree that many Owners know less about their Ownership than TS brokers (especially the lack of SO-SP conversion, and V resorts losing SVN upon resale).



hopefully that doesn't apply to tuggers - but in general most don't know that s.o won't transfer from "voluntary" resorts but then again they don't know what the term voluntary would even mean


----------



## DavidnRobin

trader14 said:


> hopefully that doesn't apply to tuggers - but in general most don't know that s.o won't transfer from "voluntary" resorts but then again they don't know what the term voluntary would even mean



I could only hope that Tuggers would know better - but we likely represent <1% of SVO VOI Owners (sadly).

Congrats on your purchase - hopefully, MFs will come back to a reasonable level - and that you bought where you intend to go.  I had a work-friend who paid ~$47K for the same VOI just a few years ago (ouch!), but at least they got 80K SPs as an incentive...


----------



## PamMo

trader14 said:


> I won the following, called the title company and they verified all information, 2 bd lockoff annual with island view.  It's a lot of money and i'm still nervous based on what i have read here.  can the thetimesharecompany.com be trusted?
> 
> WKORVN 2Bd Island View (EY) - $6,156.51 (4/7/10) plus $435 closing plus2010 maint
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&view=all&item=220579204212&tid=0&ssPageName=ADME:X:UPIOB:US:1123
> 
> Is that for every year or even years? If every year, I'd definitely be concerned about ROFR at that price!  Good luck with a smooth and successful closing! I LOVE that resort (both WKORV and WKORV-N)!
> 
> Hey, Trader14 - why aren't you a TUG member?


----------



## DavidnRobin

PamMo said:


> My two bits worth. I was the winning bidder on that oceanfront/island view unit at WKORV-N for $8988.88. I was thrilled and surprised that I won the bid, and was hoping that it was at least an oceanview. I am well aware that eBay ads are often full of errors - even when the actual owner does the listing (mistakes are definitely not unique to resellers). Yes, the ad was wrong. Confusing. But that's why buyers need to do due diligence. When it was confirmed to be an island view through the resort, I spoke with the obviously new salesman, and then John, who was very cordial. The sale was cancelled and we moved on. I was out nothing. He was out his listing fee.
> 
> There are sellers I wouldn't touch with the proverbial ten foot pole, but I would buy from John in the future if he had what I want. I thought he was a pretty stand up guy. (But, oh!!! How I wish that WKORV-N unit was oceanview!!!!!!!!    ) Heck, it's looking like $9,000 is a very good price for island view now - maybe I _should _have gone through with the sale?  (No. I like seeing the water out my window...)



As mentioned - I did buy from this group as well (Tarpey Bros.) - in the long-run I had no issues and the deal went thru quickly.  I was not happy that I was forced to use their Closing Company (a practice I do not like...) - especially when I discovered (via due diligence) that James was not licensed to practice law in Montana (at the time was listed as Legal Representative for Resort Closings).  This has been discussed ad naseum on the Buying thread (with James stating his position) - as said - no issues. And they do sale a lot of TSs and most buyers/sellers seem to be happy (in a biz where a lot can go wrong).

Pam - if you are looking for full-on OF (and can afford it) -> WKORV over WKORVN - and a center villa if you want lower MFs. Plus you get a full oven.


----------



## PamMo

DavidnRobin said:


> Pam - if you are looking for full-on OF (and can afford it) -> WKORV over WKORVN - and a center villa if you want lower MFs. Plus you get a full oven.



We've spent three weeks there in the last six months, and enjoyed both sides of the resort, but I would definitely agree with you about the OF villas at WKORV. That full-on view of the ocean is truly spectacular! Surprisingly, we used the oven a lot in the south villas - we took the suggestion of another Tugger and baked fresh cookies (using store bought cookie dough) everyday. It was a perfect way to get our grandson out of the sun. 

I'm afraid I'm one of those Tuggers who already has several timeshares and would buy another one, if the price was right. When I can trade into, or rent a week at low cost (one II Getaway week in a 2BR oceanview at WKROV-N was only $1,000, booked almost a year out) - there is _very _little incentive to pay a lot extra for ownership. Those ridiculously low rents won't continue as the economy picks up, but I'm sure MF's are going to go up, too. Starwood has been increasing MF's at an alarming rate on Maui. Marriott not so much...

But, then I think about our grandson playing in the Pirate Pool and dragging us by the hand down to the beach so he can point out the whales offshore. My heart has been able to push my brain into a compromise, "OK, go ahead and buy IF the price is right!" So, I'll keep on looking.


----------



## trader14

PamMo said:


> trader14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I won the following, called the title company and they verified all information, 2 bd lockoff annual with island view.  It's a lot of money and i'm still nervous based on what i have read here.  can the thetimesharecompany.com be trusted?
> 
> WKORVN 2Bd Island View (EY) - $6,156.51 (4/7/10) plus $435 closing plus2010 maint
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&view=all&item=220579204212&tid=0&ssPageName=ADME:X:UPIOB:US:1123
> 
> Is that for every year or even years? If every year, I'd definitely be concerned about ROFR at that price!  Good luck with a smooth and successful closing! I LOVE that resort (both WKORV and WKORV-N)!
> 
> Hey, Trader14 - why aren't you a TUG member?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is every year, hopefully they won't want the unit.  re being a tug member, I don't know what that means.  I am a on again/off again member of the forum.
Click to expand...


----------



## DeniseM

TUG "member" means that you have paid $15 and joined TUG.  Under your name it says "guest" so either you haven't joined, or you haven't changed your membership status.


----------



## RLOGO

DeniseM said:


> TUG "member" means that you have paid $15 and joined TUG.  Under your name it says "guest" so either you haven't joined, or you haven't changed your membership status.




.........and it helps support this fantastic BBS.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Westin Lagunamar - EOY Studio - Plat Plus - $1375 *(4/16/10)
seller: snownsun4ever

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200459694512&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## Transit

DavidnRobin said:


> *Westin Lagunamar - EOY Studio - Plat Plus - $1375 *(4/16/10)
> seller: snownsun4ever
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200459694512&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



All I can say is WOW.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Westin Desert Willow (WDW)*

I wanted to post this because I cannot recall a WDW (a new resort) having a completed auction eBay.

*Westin Desert Willow EOY (even) 2Bd LO - float (deeded as week 23) - $2026* - (4/13/10)
eBay seller: vaca4life2
closing costs paid by seller.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390179443799&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

If I recall correctly... this VOI was originally priced at ~$18K by SVO


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ 3Bd (Virgin Grand) - week 28*

...and because the value of 3Bd pool villas were recently being discussed (here and on another thread)... as a reminder (DanCali originally posted this)

*WSJ 3Bd Pool Villas (Virgin Grand - Hillside) Week 28, Villa #4313 (104.1K SO) - $15401 *(2/28/10)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270535551639&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## gores95

*Looks like someone is going to get a good deal on a lockoff ski season unit*

We have stayed in the Sheraton Mountain Vista and they are nice lockoff units.   Even the lockoff side has a w/d and full kitchen...not a typical studio.  I was actually thinking of bidding on this one but the seller's feedback seems just a bit low.  I wonder if this has stronger trade value in II than my Aruba Surf Club Gold?  Anyway hopefully a TUGger wins this!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280492489480&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## vacationtime1

*Westin Princeville EOY $4,400*

Westin Princeville (WPORV) EOY (even) closed 4/22/2010 for $4,400

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300418199852&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## vacationtime1

gores95 said:


> We have stayed in the Sheraton Mountain Vista and they are nice lockoff units.   Even the lockoff side has a w/d and full kitchen...not a typical studio.  I was actually thinking of bidding on this one but the seller's feedback seems just a bit low.  I wonder if this has stronger trade value in II than my Aruba Surf Club Gold?  Anyway hopefully a TUGger wins this!
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280492489480&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



Closed for $7,100.  If the MF's really are $1,270 as advertised, this platinum week will provide some reasonably priced ski weeks for someone.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*SVV-Amelia (2Bd EY, non-LO, Gold Plus)*

*SVV-Amelia (2Bd EY, non-LO, Gold Plus) - $1026* (4/28/10)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110513397748&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

do not see many of these as they are somewhat new - this is a monster discount to SVO pricing


----------



## DeniseM

DavidnRobin said:


> *SVV-Amelia (2Bd EY, non-LO, Gold Plus) - $1026* (4/28/10)
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110513397748&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> do not see many of these as they are somewhat new - this is a monster discount to SVO pricing



IMNSHO, it's because of the poor maintenance fee to Staroption ratio for this phase.


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> IMNSHO, it's because of the poor maintenance fee to Staroption ratio for this phase.



I agree - and it is a Voluntary resort - what did/does SVO sell these for?


----------



## DeniseM

In 2008, they were asking $25,900 for Plat Season and $20,900 for Gold - http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/DeniseMM/SVV_PRICING_January2008.jpg


----------



## DavidnRobin

So only about a 95% loss buying from SVO...
{ouch}


----------



## RLG

vacationtime1 said:


> Closed for $7,100.  If the MF's really are $1,270 as advertised, this platinum week will provide some reasonably priced ski weeks for someone.




I agree.  That's an unbelievable deal.  They were going for 50-100% more than that on ebay when I bought mine less than 3 years ago.  I wonder if this auction is an anomaly.

The correct maintenance is actually LOWER than stated.  I paid 1162 for each of my units in 2010.  (It looks like the auction counted the SVN fee in the maintenance.) 

Of course it gets even better if the buyer is going to retro the unit since the maintenance cost per staroption and starpoint are the best in the SVO system.


----------



## K2Quick

Lakeside Terrace 2 BR Even Years $2,515

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260594381561&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

This fits my theory that the last one closed lower (around $1,800 for an annual) because it was poorly described in the listing.  Only two bidders on this one, though.  If the second hadn't have come in at the last second, this one would have gone for $499.


----------



## DanCali

K2Quick said:


> Lakeside Terrace 2 BR Even Years $2,515
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260594381561&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> This fits my theory that the last one closed lower (around $1,800 for an annual) because it was poorly described in the listing.  Only two bidders on this one, though.  If the second hadn't have come in at the last second, this one would have gone for $499.



LY gets only 129.8K SOs if retroed and doesn't lockoff for II depsoits, so that probably explains some of the price difference relative to SMV.


----------



## Robert D

DanCali said:


> LY gets only 129.8K SOs if retroed and doesn't lockoff for II depsoits, so that probably explains some of the price difference relative to SMV.



True but the maintenance fees at LT are a lot less than SMV.


----------



## Robert D

K2Quick said:


> Lakeside Terrace 2 BR Even Years $2,515
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260594381561&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> This fits my theory that the last one closed lower (around $1,800 for an annual) because it was poorly described in the listing.  Only two bidders on this one, though.  If the second hadn't have come in at the last second, this one would have gone for $499.



It wouldn't have gone for $499 - I put in an offer quite a bit higher than that with 5 seconds left but by the time my offer was received I got a message that the current bid was $2,515 which was way over what I was willing to pay.


----------



## Weimaraner

http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-ST-JOHN-...md=ViewItem&pt=Timeshares&hash=item519263eb8b

any idea why this didn't even make the $1.00 starting bid? Says it's Staroptions Platinum Plus at Westin St. John week 13. I'm not a Starwood owner (maybe someday), but looks like a good deal. Are the MFs scaring people away? Is it the seller? unit size? Just wondering what to be on the lookout for.


----------



## Fredm

Weimaraner said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTIN-ST-JOHN-...md=ViewItem&pt=Timeshares&hash=item519263eb8b
> 
> any idea why this didn't even make the $1.00 starting bid? Says it's Staroptions Platinum Plus at Westin St. John week 13. I'm not a Starwood owner (maybe someday), but looks like a good deal. Are the MFs scaring people away? Is it the seller? unit size? Just wondering what to be on the lookout for.



My guess is that it is the "seller".
Recent reports here have not been good.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83698

You should be aware that many ebay sellers with a decent track record engage in similar activity. Their track record is good until it  turns. As it will, given their method of operation.  Just be careful.


----------



## DanCali

Fredm said:


> My guess is that it is the "seller".
> Recent reports here have not been good.
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83698
> 
> You should be aware that many ebay sellers with a decent track record engage in similar activity. Their track record is good until it  turns. As it will, given their method of operation.  Just be careful.



This has nothing to do with the seller or their track record (which, outside of TUG, doesn't look bad at all)

Seeing zero bids doesn't mean there were no bids if the seller ends the auction early for some reason (like mislisted item, or selling on a different platform etc). I've had event tickets listed on both Stubhub and ebay and then cancelled one if they sold on the other... it happens all the time. None of these sites forces you to be exclusive...

Click on the "0 bids" to se the history.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=350348372875


----------



## DavidnRobin

It was ended early - there was a bid higher than $1000.  I contacted the seller about the auction inquiring about a potential problem with the auction(week # - inconsistancy) when there was a bid in the $100s - they wrote that it was for a specific week that was week 17 and not week 13 (as in the auction) - after my inquiry - the bid immediately went over $1000 - then soon after the auction was listed as 'ended' with a bid of $1.
strange, but this redweeks4less afterall.

btw - be aware that the redweeks4less thread is from 2008.


----------



## Fredm

DanCali said:


> This has nothing to do with the seller or their track record (which, outside of TUG, doesn't look bad at all)
> 
> Seeing zero bids doesn't mean there were no bids if the seller ends the auction early for some reason (like mislisted item, or selling on a different platform etc). I've had event tickets listed on both Stubhub and ebay and then cancelled one if they sold on the other... it happens all the time. None of these sites forces you to be exclusive...
> 
> Click on the "0 bids" to se the history.
> 
> http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=350348372875



My guess was based on their BBB rating of D- and their "escrow" company's BBB rating of "F".

As I said, track record can be good until it isn't.

 Just a guess, and a note of caution. Weimaraner asked for issues to be aware of.


----------



## Fredm

DavidnRobin said:


> ll.
> 
> btw - be aware that the redweeks4less thread is from 2008.



Right. The last two posts were yesterday, and the day before yesterday.


----------



## DanCali

Fredm said:


> My guess was based on their BBB rating of D- and their "escrow" company's BBB rating of "F".
> 
> As I said, track record can be good until it isn't.
> 
> Just a guess, and a note of caution. Weimaraner asked for issues to be aware of.



I don't disagree that their feedback is less than stellar both on TUG and with the BBB. But not all eBay bidders are tuggers and most don't go the check the BBB before they bid; they probably take a look at the 97% positive rating (inflated by selling baseball cards) with almost 600 auctions and assume it'll be fine. 

Personally, I wouldn't deal with them (well - maybe if I saw a real steal) but I've tried in the past to see if their auctions generate lower selling prices than some more reputable sellers and couldn't really see a noticeable difference. My conclusion was that most people just don't know or don't care.

These people are in business because they fill a void in the market. They practices are questionable - maybe it will catch up with them at some point... but they'll probably just change the name of the business and start over, or be replaced by someone else...


----------



## vistana101

St. Augustine SVV, Gold Annual-499.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-SHERATON-VI...md=ViewItem&pt=Timeshares&hash=item483a54a7fb

Wow, I was offered this same unit from Starwood for only 20,900!:rofl:


----------



## DavidnRobin

Fredm said:


> Right. The last two posts were yesterday, and the day before yesterday.


I meant the thread in Buying was bought back from 2008.

The specifics on the WSJ eBay was that I contacted seller (RW4L) and asked for the specific deeded week/ck-in day (not for me...) and they responded via eBay almost immediately.  The days they responded with was week 17 and not week 13.  I responded that their week was incorrect.  Within the hour of my return response (auction still had many days to go ) the bid went up $1000+, then auction ended with a $1 bid (at least from what I saw).   I assumed it was cancelled.

I would not deal with RW4L unless it was too good to pass up (very limited list of SVO VOIs - IMO) - and I had everything checked out 100% before sending money.


----------



## Fredm

DanCali said:


> These people are in business because they fill a void in the market. They practices are questionable - maybe it will catch up with them at some point... but they'll probably just change the name of the business and start over, or be replaced by someone else...



I agree with you. 

ebay now requires rental auctions to prove that they own the week, and have a valid reservation for what is being rented (or have owner authorization). I assume the exchange companies have applied pressure on ebay.

If ebay would do this for sale auctions, it would at least go part way to controlling some of the illegal activity. Not the PCC variety, but the outright trolling for buyers without legal control of the auctioned inventory.


----------



## K2Quick

*Westin Kierland 2 BR Gold 81,000 StarOptions Annual $9,600*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300425119108&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Seems a bit on the high side to me.


----------



## RLOGO

K2Quick said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300425119108&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Seems a bit on the high side to me.



Yes, these guys were going for 4.5K-6K a few months ago.


----------



## yumdrey

*Harborside Atlantis 1BR deluxe, annual, gold season phase 2*

Just sold for $399.
Here's link :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110531909731&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


----------



## DanCali

K2Quick said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300425119108&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Seems a bit on the high side to me.



Sale did not go through - this has been relisted (as item: 300429289343)


----------



## duke

I am in Maui now.  Have Timeshare listing for WKORV (south) Ocean FRONT DELUXE for $25,000.  Is that a good price?????


----------



## DeniseM

duke said:


> I am in Maui now.  Have Timeshare listing for WKORV (south) Ocean FRONT DELUXE for $25,000.  Is that a good price?????



The MF is too high:  Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas (2 bdm. Dlx) - *$3,076.69*


----------



## DavidnRobin

The MFs suck (they were less than $2K not long ago), but...

As Tugger Syed - who sells these (Tuggers FredM and James1975 also sell these) - once told me... WKORV OF Dlx tends to sell to a certain segment of TSers who are specifically looking for what WKORV OF offers over others.

DeniseM is not one of these types.  DnR and Westin5Star are... (I am speaking for W5S here based on past posts...)  I think SDKath is also - she just hasn't had that realization yet  

If you are the type - then $25K is fair.


----------



## DeniseM

Dave - I am TOTALLY the ocean front type!  I own two ocean front weeks on Kauai that I paid less than $1,500 for and the MF is still less than $1,000!


----------



## DavidnRobin

I meant OF at WKORV (didn't I say that?) - I know you own OF in Kauai.


----------



## DeniseM

I know that you know.   

But when you compare the difference in price, I just can't justify owning OF at WKORV.


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> I know that you know.
> 
> But when you compare the difference is price, I just can't justify owning OF at WKORV.



Exactly my point - I know that you cannot justify - and I know that you know that I know... 

DnR and W5S (likely) can justify WKORV OF (because we have to...  )- although I wish I had only paid $25K... AND that the Dlx MFs were not >$3K (or that we got the service that went along with these MFs)


----------



## tinkerbell2

*WKV 148 SO for 13200$*

I just saw this auction that ended last night on ebay. No reserve. What a drop in price !


----------



## DavidnRobin

tinkerbell2 said:


> I just saw this auction that ended last night on ebay. No reserve. What a drop in price !



Keep in mind - the seller of this auction is Redweek4less ('nuff said)


----------



## DanCali

tinkerbell2 said:


> I just saw this auction that ended last night on ebay. No reserve. What a drop in price !



There was one a week ago that ended at $17.5K sold by lss2838.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300426876572

I wouldn't read too much into a single auction from a disreputable seller... If I was looking for another unit, that would have been a price much lower than recent auctions, but, like David said - it's redweeks4less - not sure I need the headache...


----------



## RLOGO

DanCali said:


> There was one a week ago that ended at $17.5K sold by lss2838.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300426876572
> 
> I wouldn't read too much into a single auction from a disreputable seller... If I was looking for another unit, that would have been a price much lower than recent auctions, but, like David said - it's redweeks4less - not sure I need the headache...



Here is the BBB rating for the closing company...it says it all

http://www.bbb.org/knoxville/busine...-timeshare-closing-in-sevierville-tn-90005226


----------



## vacationtime1

*WKORV sold for $8,000; WPORV (eoy) sold for $760*

These eBay auction closing prices are scary low:


*(1)*  WKORV; 2 bd; annual; ocean view; 6/8/2010; $8,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300433498630&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


*(2)*  WPORV; 2 bd; eoy; 6/8/2010; $760

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220612908730&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


Blame it on the MF's; blame it on the economy; blame it on the sellers.  It doesn't matter.  Someone paid $33,000 for this WPORV and lost over 97% of his/her "investment" within a couple of years.  

It Starwood were better managed, it would be a wake-up call.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ BV 2Bd EOY-even (float: wk34-50) - $4050*

Since there are not many WSJ BV (Bay Vista) villas showing up on the resale market (yet) - I thought this one is of interest.

*WSJ BV 2Bd EOY-even (float: weeks 34 -50) - $4050 (6/2/2010)*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150440154573&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

greattimesharebargains seems to be a reputable seller

ps - also wanted to bump the eBay sales thread to make sure separate threads are not started.


----------



## DavidnRobin

tinkerbell2 said:


> I just saw this auction that ended last night on ebay. No reserve. What a drop in price !



one recently (5/18/10) had a completed auction for $17450 from a reputable seller (lss2838)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300426876572&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

this price is pretty much in-line with historic values.


----------



## jerseygirl

Did you post these two David?  Sorry if redundant.

Week 20, One-BR/Two-Bath, Annual, Saturday check-in, Sold for $2377

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260586076674&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I wanted it ... had a snipe ready at auctionstealer.com .... thought it bumped up against our Memorial week unit ... but I was off by a week so pulled the bid.   


Week 19, Studio, Annual, Sold for $1676

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370391285619&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> Did you post these two David?  Sorry if redundant.
> 
> Week 20, One-BR/Two-Bath, Annual, Saturday check-in, Sold for $2377
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260586076674&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> I wanted it ... had a snipe ready at auctionstealer.com .... thought it bumped up against our Memorial week unit ... but I was off by a week so pulled the bid.
> 
> 
> Week 19, Studio, Annual, Sold for $1676
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370391285619&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



No - I don't think I did (of course I seem to have 'rum-induced amnesia') and not sure if someone else had - but I was tracking at one point.

WSJ was selling a studio (week 27) for the asking price >$20K (maybe $30K?) - what a bargain. I told her that these are going for just a few thousand on ebay - she discounted of course.  I should have taken notes during the owners update - but wasn't in the mood to deal with closer lady - and she wouldn't give them to me.


----------



## jerseygirl

*WKV EOY 2-BR Gold*

WKV EOY 2-BR Gold (81000 SOs)
2012 First Usage
$1876  
Reputable Seller (Tom Ochoa)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310228517275&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## SDKath

DavidnRobin said:


> Keep in mind - the seller of this auction is Redweek4less ('nuff said)



Just an FYI, I have bought about 5 weeks from this company (IA Vacations) and have never had problems.  I just closed on a WKV and it was done within about 2 weeks with no issues.  I am going to post feedback as soon as SVN transfers it to my name.

Katherine


----------



## jarta

Last week, same seller, EY 2-br at Four Seasons Aviara - $5,840.  1 1/2 years ago it would have sold for $15,000+.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260625655297&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Last week, deluxe 1-br at Starwood's SDO, $1 to open - No bidders.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370401358694&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

In May new home sales were down 33% from April.  Worst drop ever.  

http://consumerist.com/2010/06/new-home-sales-drop-to-record-low-down-33.html

It's the economy.  Most people are sitting tight and holding on to their cash in case it gets worse.  ...   eom


----------



## DanCali

SDKath said:


> Just an FYI, I have bought about 5 weeks from this company (IA Vacations) and have never had problems.  I just closed on a WKV and it was done within about 2 weeks with no issues.  I am going to post feedback as soon as SVN transfers it to my name.
> 
> Katherine



DONE -- REALLY this time!!!


----------



## SDKath

DanCali said:


> DONE -- REALLY this time!!!



Yeah, yeah, yeah...  You are starting to sound just like my DH!   


Katherine


----------



## DavidnRobin

SDKath said:


> Just an FYI, I have bought about 5 weeks from this company (IA Vacations) and have never had problems.  I just closed on a WKV and it was done within about 2 weeks with no issues.  I am going to post feedback as soon as SVN transfers it to my name.
> 
> Katherine



Hi Kath - I just saw this - are you saying IA Vacations is RedWeeks4less on eBay?  {did I miss this link?} Interesting - RW4L has their own thread in the Buying forum that is not positive (as well as my personal observations of their eBay auctions over the years).  Glad it worked out for you...


----------



## K2Quick

DavidnRobin said:


> Hi Kath - I just saw this - are you saying IA Vacations is RedWeeks4less on eBay?  {did I miss this link?} Interesting - RW4L has their own thread in the Buying forum that is not positive (as well as my personal observations of their eBay auctions over the years).  Glad it worked out for you...



I've bought through RW4L - it's the same.  I wasn't at all thrilled with the end-to-end experience, but they got the job done.  I think I gave them a "C" in the ratings.


----------



## DavidnRobin

who put the 'bump' in the 'su-be-do-be-do-bump' - I did...
{Chuck Prophet}


----------



## Cstreet

*WKORV 1bd EOY - $1k*

Just picked this up tonight bad listing title resulted in little competition.  Special thanks to a tugger for pointing me at this one. WKORV 1bd EOY OV - $1k

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270610066658&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Hopefully Starwood does not use their ROFR.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Cstreet said:


> Just picked this up tonight bad listing title resulted in little competition.  Special thanks to a tugger for pointing me at this one. WKORV 1bd EOY - $1k
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270610066658&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> 
> Hopefully Starwood does not use their ROFR.



wow - what a deal - if auctions is correct. 
Are they going to make you take the other 'free' TS to close the deal?  If not, what a bargain price - not a bargain MF though...
gl


----------



## Cstreet

Other free timeshare is not required.


----------



## DavidnRobin

congrats - not to long ago 1bd WKORV EY were selling for mid-$10Ks

eBay broker really did the seller a disservice with poor auction headers


----------



## DavidnRobin

WSJ 1Bd - week 41 - auction ended w/o bid (start bid = $250) - ouch
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140437557157&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## PamMo

*Annual 2BR Deluxe (Island View) at WKOR*

Buy It Now Price is $7,500 or Make Offer! I wonder what it will end up selling for? I love those corner units, but $3,200/yr MF's are brutal - especially for island view!

http://cgi.ebay.com/2BR-WESTIN-KAAN...OPTIONS-TIMESHARE-/330460037740?pt=Timeshares


----------



## grgs

*WMH 2 bd EY Plat for $1,009--ouch!*

Went for $1,009:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260657955378&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I saw this one about an hour before the auction's end and assumed it would go up.  Probably a good thing I was unavailable to watch the last few minutes, or I would have been tempted.

Glorian


----------



## nodge

*EY WMH Platinum 2 BR L/O $595.55*



grgs said:


> Went for $1,009:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260657955378&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> I saw this one about an hour before the auction's end and assumed it would go up.  Probably a good thing I was unavailable to watch the last few minutes, or I would have been tempted.
> 
> Glorian



That's a "relisting" of this ebay listing where I suspected shill bidding was involved.  The seller made me, the second place finisher in that auction, a "second chance" offer of $2850, and refused my counter-offer of $2200.  Now I'm really, really glad that deal fell through. 

Oh yeah, this 2BR L/O Platinum Annual WMH's auction just ended too ($595.55).

How low will they go?

-nodge


----------



## vacationtime1

*WKORV-North OCEAN FRONT Annual - $14,000*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160483881235&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

This unit was mis-labeled as ocean view.  If it truly was unit 530506 as advertised, it is ocean front and someone got a steal.

It was a "buy it now/best offer".  The first time it was listed, no one bid and the listing expired.  This was a relisting.


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## PamMo

$14,000 annual OF at WKORVN? Yes, that was the unit and it was an oceanfront 2BR. I wasn't the buyer, but I was interested in it and verified the information with the seller. FYI, several oceanfront units have passed ROFR at that price (and even lower) lately. Bad news for people trying to sell now, neutral for buyers. The question still remains...how low will prices go?


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## CanadianLawyer

grgs said:


> Went for $1,009:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260657955378&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> I saw this one about an hour before the auction's end and assumed it would go up.  Probably a good thing I was unavailable to watch the last few minutes, or I would have been tempted.
> 
> Glorian



Right now anything without StarOptions is going for practically nothing unless the buyer just doesn't know what they are doing. Anything with Staroptions is going for slightly above nothing, but not much above.


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## DeniseM

Just to clarify - no Starwood resales have Starpoints (hotel points.)

A handful have Staroptions.

Most timeshares with Staroptions are still selling for thousands of dollars, except for Sheraton Vistana Villages - which has a poor MF to SO ratio.


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## DanCali

DeniseM said:


> Most timeshares with Staroptions are still selling for thousands of dollars, except for Sheraton Vistana Villages - which has a poor MF to SO ratio.



If MF/SO ratio was the only criterion determining resale prices, WKORV would sell for less than SVV because it has a worse ratio... 

Other things like the location of the resort, MF stability, and the cost to rent comparable accommodations at that location (relative to MF) also affect the value. The latter probably hurts SVV most since II getaways are much cheaper than the cost of MFs and they are available for most weeks of the year. The only reason to pay anything for SVV is its mandatory status and making Staroptions exchanges. The value of usage of the resort itself is negative given the high MFs... (an owner can always rent for less in Orlando, and not just from another owner)


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## DeniseM

I'm sure you are right Dan, but if the MF - Staroptions ratio was comparable to say, WKV, these weeks wouldn't be going on ebay for $1 - with no bids.  If the MF wasn't out of line, people would buy them just to use for traders and never visit the resort, or care about rent, etc.

Bella/Key West - 2 bdm. lock-off = *95,700* staroptions - MF = *$1,543*.  

WKV - 2 bdm. lock-off = *148K* staroptions - MF =  *$1,237*​


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## vaterp37

Just out of curiosity - does anyone have any idea why SVV MFs are so out of line compared with the Orlando area?  Trying to understand SVO's rationale.  I imagine the fixed costs like running and maintaining the property are all relatively comparable across resorts in the area.  Are there variable costs at SVV that make the increased MFs logical?


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## DeniseM

Mostly because Starwood has a strangle hold on the Board of Directors.  In a new phase like this, 4 out of 5 of the directors will be Starwood employees.


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## DanCali

vaterp37 said:


> Just out of curiosity - does anyone have any idea why SVV MFs are so out of line compared with the Orlando area?  Trying to understand SVO's rationale.  I imagine the fixed costs like running and maintaining the property are all relatively comparable across resorts in the area.  Are there variable costs at SVV that make the increased MFs logical?



The odd thing is that different phases at the same Starwood resort have very different MFs. In particular, the (mandatory) Bella and Key West phases have MFs much higher than the (voluntary) Amelia and St. Augustine phases. Makes you wonder  ...

Until 2009 SVV Bella and Key West MFs were growing relatively fast, but were not that much higher than comparable Marriotts, especially the non-lockoff 2BR which is a bit smaller. In 2010 there was a big jump in MFs at many resorts of 30%+ which Starwood attributed mainly to the economy and MF delinquencies. SVV Bella and Key West were hit among the worst and resale values plunged accordingly...


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## pathways25

PamMo said:


> $14,000 annual OF at WKORVN? Yes, that was the unit and it was an oceanfront 2BR. I wasn't the buyer, but I was interested in it and verified the information with the seller. FYI, several oceanfront units have passed ROFR at that price (and even lower) lately. Bad news for people trying to sell now, neutral for buyers. The question still remains...how low will prices go?



I actually got this one.  Unfortunately, Starwood has exercised its ROFR.

Oh well...


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## PamMo

pathways25 said:


> I actually got this one.  Unfortunately, Starwood has exercised its ROFR.
> 
> Oh well...



So sorry to hear you didn't get that one. I was able to squeak through ROFR with a similar unit under $14,000, but had to pay 2010 MF's. Luckily, I was able to use a week at Harborside and a week at Princeville this year. I think passing ROFR all depends on if Starwood has a buyer when the paperwork comes across their desk. They sure took their time giving me their decision on ROFR when we bought.


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## DavidnRobin

*WKORV and WSJ sales*

The thread discussing PCCs on eBay - made me take a recent look on eBay for completed sales (Westin).

WKORV 1Bd (81K SOs) EOY with 2010 MFs due -$1525 - Sept 30, 2010
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180565013676

This was from a reputable TS broker/closing company (and DNFC)
this resale price is 10% of the resale price just a couple of years ago - and much much less that the original SVO price.  This has a ROFR, and unknown if SVO picked it up.

also from same seller...

WSJ-VG studio (week 44, #3314, 44K SO) - $152.50
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...b%2F1DA%3D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

No ROFR for WSJ-VG. It appears like the seller listened to advice here on TUG and actually had correct info for this WSJ villa (including check-in day, taxes...) - good job


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## mstoyanov

DavidnRobin the first auction is for 1BR Even year usage and requires payment of 2010 MFs with almost no way to use that ownership this year so in reality the price is ~$2600 (not that it matter that much but still $1525 is misleadingly low). On top of that there is no way to know if Starwood will exercise ROFR at that price.  
As for the WSJ - that is simply a function of out of control MF. $2k yearly (plus back taxes) is excessive for studio no matter where. MFC has less MF for 2BR (different island I know but still in the same area). 



DavidnRobin said:


> The thread discussing PCCs on eBay - made me take a recent look on eBay for completed sales (Westin).
> 
> WKORV 1Bd (81K SOs) -$1525 - Sept 30, 2010
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180565013676
> 
> This was from a reputable TS broker/closing company (and DNFC)
> this resale price is 10% of the resale price just a couple of years ago - and much much less that the original SVO price.  This has a ROFR, and unknown if SVO picked it up.
> 
> also from same seller...
> 
> WSJ-VG studio (week 44, #3314, 44K SO) - $152.50
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...b%2F1DA%3D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> No ROFR for WSJ-VG. It appears like the seller listened to advice here on TUG and actually had correct info for this WSJ villa (including check-in day, taxes...) - good job


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## DavidnRobin

sorry - I missed that - should have more closely check - I will update.  Still a good price, and these were selling for $15K not that long ago...
It is possible to get 2010 usage since the sale closed Sept30, but I hear what you are saying - and I did mention the ROFR - this is always unknown unless the very small chance mentioned here in TUG.

of course someone is renting a WKORVN OF for $700 on the LMR board - that is truly a great bargain for those that can travel soon...

btw - I own 2 weeks at WSJ... both resale... and I pay my MFs - the MFs have gotten out of control BUT the current MFs reflect a 50% increase in the RR (for 3 years) that went to a complete refurbish (which was too costly, but worth IN OUR OPINION - esp Robin).  I would call it a SA, but afraid to get my head bit off... lol


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## TheUnitrep

Deleted by The Unit Rep after it was no longer relevant to thread


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## K2Quick

SDO 2-Bed 1-52 Annual First Use 2012 - $1,458

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...pItT3Ys%3D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Prices seem to have recovered for 2-bed SDO units.  This price is consistent with other recent 2-bed 1-52 auctions.  I recently sold my 2-bed unit through the TUG classified for a bit less than that.  Maybe I should have just rolled the dice on ebay (actually I'm happy with what I got since it was sold to a very reputable broker who made the process effortless for me).


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## K2Quick

K2Quick said:


> SDO 2-Bed 1-52 Annual First Use 2012 - $1,458
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...pItT3Ys%3D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> Prices seem to have recovered for 2-bed SDO units.  This price is consistent with other recent 2-bed 1-52 auctions.  I recently sold my 2-bed unit through the TUG classified for a bit less than that.  Maybe I should have just rolled the dice on ebay (actually I'm happy with what I got since it was sold to a very reputable broker who made the process effortless for me).



Okay, so the pricing is a little random.  Yesterday, the same unit (except usage and fees start 2011) ended with one bid and $197 plus closing.  Even if the MF for 2011 were thrown away, this is still cheaper.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...witem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_3399wt_905


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## ada903

The MF are not thrown away at all - you can lock it off and deposit it with II until Dec 31st, and have two years to get two exchanges.



K2Quick said:


> Okay, so the pricing is a little random.  Yesterday, the same unit (except usage and fees start 2011) ended with one bid and $197 plus closing.  Even if the MF for 2011 were thrown away, this is still cheaper.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...witem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_3399wt_905


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## tschwa2

Westin Kierland 1-Bed Platinum 81,000 SO's Annual First Use 2012 - $6,100 +$499 closing cost.   5/31/11 ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=330568626771&si=kK2pY3Zln%252F24vba8r5yhU2mVou8%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT


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## VacationForever

ada903 said:


> The MF are not thrown away at all - you can lock it off and deposit it with II until Dec 31st, and have two years to get two exchanges.



YEP!  Guess who bid on this one! :whoopie:


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## vacationtime1

tschwa2 said:


> Westin Kierland 1-Bed Platinum 81,000 SO's Annual First Use 2012 - $6,100 +$499 closing cost.   5/31/11 ebay
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=330568626771&si=kK2pY3Zln%252F24vba8r5yhU2mVou8%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT



This one is mine -- but only if and when the estoppel checks out.  They have given me two incorrect documents so far.  Although the seller (sellingtimeguys) checks out as honest on this board, they also appear to be somewhat sloppy.  Because they have a captive escrow company, every "i" will be dotted and every "t" will be crossed before I fund this escrow.


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## TheViking

*Bump this for updates?*

Can any of the above posters with Doctorate Level experience and know how give me an indication of the current state of STARWOOD resale prices.
Specifically: 
Kierland
Sheraton Vistiana Villages 
and the Voluntary Property in magical Westin Princeville

I just want to extend my sincere thanks to all of you as I've been reading through many posts and threads.  I can't imagine considering a time share purchase without this forum. 

Admittedly after extensive reading and searching for 4 plus days I barely qualify for a Associates Level education in TS.  I have focused mostly on Starwood and Marriott VO as well as TS in Sint Marteen.

Again Thanks in advance for any and all replies
V


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## DeniseM

I'd check sales on ebay:  

1)  go to the TS auctions:  http://www.ebay.com/sch/items/Timeshares-for-Sale_?_catref=1&_sacat=15897

2)  Scroll all the way down and click COMPLETED LISTINGS on the left

3)  put the exact name of your resort in the search box

4)  click search


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## vacationtime1

If you are searching for comparables for *platinum *Kierland units, I don't think closed eBay auctions provide useful information.  There are few sales and many of the listings were by redweek4less, a seller with a less-than-sterling reputation (I am being polite here; I am not convinced that their "sales" actually close). 

I would benchmark current prices for the 148100 2bd platinum Kierland at about $18,000 and the 81000 1bd platinum Kierland at $8,500.  Some report buying for less, but I think they are outliers.  (I realize that these numbers are internally inconsistent; if the two bedroom sells for $18K, the one bedroom should be selling for about $10K, but the market is what it is.)

btw--My deal described three posts up never closed; I ended up paying a bit more than that eighteen months later from a different seller.


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## OKPACIFIC

*princeville resale*

You would probably need a price of 12k for a Princeville annual 2br float to clear Starwood's right of first refusal. Also, we just bought an annual 2br Princeville fixed week 7/ fixed hammerhead unit view for 20.5k and it cleared the ROFR.


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## blahblah18

vacationtime1 said:


> I would benchmark current prices for the 148100 2bd platinum Kierland at about $18,000 and the 81000 1bd platinum Kierland at $8,500.  Some report buying for less, but I think they are outliers.  (I realize that these numbers are internally inconsistent; if the two bedroom sells for $18K, the one bedroom should be selling for about $10K, but the market is what it is.)



If one was to buy a Premium 1BR and a standard 1BR in separate (resale) transactions . . . would the combined purchase effectively act as a 2BR Lockoff?   For both 12 month home resort bookings, and for 8 month SVN exchanges?

If they're available in separate purchases, is there any downside or disadvantage to 'creating' a 2BR LO with 148100 SO in this way?


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## okwiater

WPORV was only sold as 2br lockoffs. You can't purchase a 1br.


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## DeniseM

okwiater said:


> WPORV was only sold as 2br lockoffs. You can't purchase a 1br.



At WPORV, a 2 bdm. is a one bdm. + studio - so the OP is describing WKV, or another resort.


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## DeniseM

blahblah18 said:


> If one was to buy a Premium 1BR and a standard 1BR in separate (resale) transactions . . . would the combined purchase effectively act as a 2BR Lockoff?   For both 12 month home resort bookings, and for 8 month SVN exchanges?
> 
> If they're available in separate purchases, is there any downside or disadvantage to 'creating' a 2BR LO with 148100 SO in this way?



When you make a *home resort reservation*, you would have to make two separate reservations for the two one bedrooms, because they are on separate deeds.  Starwood will not guarantee that you can attach two two separate reservations.  The two reservations may even be in different buildings, and you won't know until check-in.

When you make a *Staroption reservation*, you can combine the 148,100 Staroptions to reserve a 2 bdm. on one confirmation, so they would definitely be attached.


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## abdibile

blahblah18 said:


> If one was to buy a Premium 1BR and a standard 1BR in separate (resale) transactions . . . would the combined purchase effectively act as a 2BR Lockoff?   For both 12 month home resort bookings, and for 8 month SVN exchanges?
> 
> If they're available in separate purchases, is there any downside or disadvantage to 'creating' a 2BR LO with 148100 SO in this way?



Isn't the sum of the maintenance fees of the 2 seperate 1BR Units significantly higher than the 2BR lockoff maintenance fee?

This is the case at Sheraton Desert Oasis, not sure about WKV.


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## okwiater

abdibile said:


> Isn't the sum of the maintenance fees of the 2 seperate 1BR Units significantly higher than the 2BR lockoff maintenance fee?
> 
> This is the case at Sheraton Desert Oasis, not sure about WKV.



No, at WKV the MFs for the 2 bedroom are the same as for both 1 bedroom units.


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## clotheshorse

okwiater said:


> No, at WKV the MFs for the 2 bedroom are the same as for both 1 bedroom units.



I have a similar question that I have been researching.  Full disclosure as I know many on the board advocate buying only the highest point value/platinum - but that may not work for everyone.   With that said, for WKV, will a silver 2br pay more in MF than two I BR gold?  Wondering if a 2BR silver is a good deal.


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## okwiater

clotheshorse said:


> I have a similar question that I have been researching.  Full disclosure as I know many on the board advocate buying only the highest point value/platinum - but that may not work for everyone.   With that said, for WKV, will a silver 2br pay more in MF than two I BR gold?  Wondering if a 2BR silver is a good deal.



All WKV VOIs pay the same MFs regardless of "season." A 2br Platinum pays the same as a 2br Gold pays the same as a 2br Silver. The only distinction from an MF perspective is unit size: 2br Lockoff, 1br Premium, or 1br Deluxe.


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## clotheshorse

okwiater said:


> All WKV VOIs pay the same MFs regardless of "season." A 2br Platinum pays the same as a 2br Gold pays the same as a 2br Silver. The only distinction from an MF perspective is unit size: 2br Lockoff, 1br Premium, or 1br Deluxe.



Thank you, I was trying to figure out by what was posted in the SVO maintenance database in the sticky.   You answered my question, I will pass on the 2bd silver as I don't need it (was after a few more SOs), not worth the high maintenance fee.  Will keep looking and be patient.


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## tschwa2

abdibile said:


> Isn't the sum of the maintenance fees of the 2 seperate 1BR Units significantly higher than the 2BR lockoff maintenance fee?
> 
> This is the case at Sheraton Desert Oasis, not sure about WKV.



It depends how the original offering statement was written.  This is the case for SDO and Harborside, and it may be the case for Hawaii.  For WKV it is not the case nor is it at SBP.  The two halves separately are the same as the whole.


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## DeniseM

abdibile said:


> Isn't the sum of the maintenance fees of the 2 seperate 1BR Units significantly higher than the 2BR lockoff maintenance fee?
> 
> This is the case at Sheraton Desert Oasis, not sure about WKV.



This is only true at SDO.


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## blahblah18

DeniseM said:


> When you make a *home resort reservation*, you would have to make two separate reservations for the two one bedrooms, because they are on separate deeds.  Starwood will not guarantee that you can attach two two separate reservations.  The two reservations may even be in different buildings, and you won't know until check-in.
> 
> When you make a *Staroption reservation*, you can combine the 148,100 Staroptions to reserve a 2 bdm. on one confirmation, so they would definitely be attached.



Makes sense!  (Thanks so much for the info, Denise.)

I assume it's possible to reserve using StarOptions at your *home* resort, within the 8 month window, to make reservations that differ from your deeded unit(s) (ie different than what an owner could reserve at 12 months)?  I.e. If an owner had two 1BR deeds at their home resort, but wanted to combine the value of the two deeds in order to get a 2 BR L/O, that could be done at the 8 month window (assuming villas are still available, of course)?

(Awesome info and support here, by the way.  TUG, thanks to everyone here, is a fantastic resource!  We're in the middle of closing our first ever purchase -- a resale 1BR Premium at WKV.  Can't wait to close so we can get our first reservation in and get this all figured out!)


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## DeniseM

Yes - you can make Staroptions reservations at your home resort from 0-8 mo. before check-in, for what ever is available at that point, but you will have no owner's priority for view, etc.  Staroption reservations always have a "floating" view, assigned by the front desk at check-in.


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