# [2008] Your Opinions - WKORV vs WKORV-N



## jasonb (May 12, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

We are long-time lurkers and first time posters. We have been to WKORV twice now and have resisted the tempation to buy from the developer. We found TUG and are now in a place where we are able to consider a (resale) purchase.

I would love to hear everyone's opinions on the following scenario.

We have around 30k +/- to invest. We are relatively sure that we want 2br/Lock-off with annual usage. (I like the option of using the whole thing, not using it (rental $$$) and/or splitting and renting half and using the other side)

Given the scenario (30k +/-) - what would TUG'gers recommend?

WKORV-OV versus WKORV-N IV?

30K seems to be a solid number for WKORV 2br/Annual OV and/or WKORV-N 2br/Annual IV.

WKORV-N 2br/Annual OV being slightly higher than that. Is it worth it?

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

Jason (Soon to be owner!!!!  )


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## DeniseM (May 12, 2008)

Welcome to TUG!    

Here is a recent thread on that very topic:  Which Maui Resort?

My choice is definitely WKORV Ocean View!  Most owners have had great views at the WKORV as long as they reserve at exactly 12 mos. out at 9 a.m. Eastern time.  If I'm in Hawaii, I want to see the ocean!






Let us know if you have any more questions.


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## glenn1000 (May 12, 2008)

Easy one- WKORV OV.


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## jasonb (May 12, 2008)

Thanks Denise - very helpful.

Glen - care to expand on why?


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## dss (May 12, 2008)

No question WKORV OV in my opinion. The units are a bit larger, the maintenance fees are a touch lower (as of now) and the view should be reasonable as long as you book in advance. I would prefer most any OV at WKORV to IV at WKORV-N. That being said, since you are planning to go every year, if you can swing/justify the additional expense (probably close to an additional 20k) to go OF at WKORV, I think it's worth the upgrade and will likely hold it's value over time as well. 

Good luck!


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## DeniseM (May 12, 2008)

What DSS said - If I had it to do all over again, I would buy a resale, ocean front unit, at WKORV!


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## Lewis (May 12, 2008)

*Comparison*

We have stayed at WKORV twice and toured WKORV-N.  Some ideas if you do not want to spend the extra $$ to get an OF unit:

* If only the large 1 bedroom is needed, WKORV has the large one bedroom units (OV) as an ownership option (most likely resale unless the resort has foreclosed on some).

* If using for separate stays, the studio side of WKORV-N is much nicer in that it has a usable balcony.

* As others have noted, the large side of WKORV has more square footage, but the WKORV-N is newer.

* If your plan is to use the entire 2BR unit the same week, the WKORV would be better for 2 couples (due to the foyer which separates the spaces) and the WKORV-N would be better for 1 couple with kids as there is the standard lockoff connecting door.

* If you are able to travel offseason, a more economical way to gain access to both WKORV and WKORV-N is to buy at a mandatory property in the mainland.  We have been successful at using StarOptions from our Kierland unit for Hawaii ... The only "risk" to this plan is that your view priority will be behind all of the owners.  However, we have been happy with our view both stays.

Best of luck ... both WKORV and -N are beautiful properties.


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## jasonb (May 12, 2008)

Thanks for the great advice everyone....

I wish we had the extra for an OF! But that is not an option at this point.

BTW - we are a young couple travelling with a young child - plus the option of adding extended family members on some trips.


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## Westin5Star (May 12, 2008)

My suggestion is to rent this year and buy next year.  Fuel costs and Hawaiin airfare are on the rise.  I believe that many WKORV-N OV units will go on sale during the next year causing resale values to drop dramatically.  Right now, you could probably land a WKORV OV 2BR for about $26-28k.  I think that next year you will be able to buy a WKORV-N OV for less than $30k (please remind me of this post in a year).  North is newer with flat panels TVs and studio balconies.  If they build the 3rd phase, North will also be in the middle which will be very convinient.  Good luck with your decision.


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## jasonb (May 12, 2008)

Thanks Westin5*.

You touch on two questions I was going to ask:

My research (Tug Classifieds, MyResortNetwork, RedWeek) seems to show that the asking price for a 2br/LO Annual OV at WKORV is at 30K (one at 28.5k). Does anyone have any thoughts on what the asking price will translate into when it comes to the selling price? (how much less?) 

What would be a reasonable offer on 30k? (ie: not offensive to the seller)

Next question:

Firstly - to all the Americans in the room - sorry that your ecomony is in a downturn! (North of the border - we may not be far behind):annoyed: 

Anyone have any thoughts (in addition to Westin5*'s) on whether now is a good time or whether we should wait to see if things continue to decline? If so - what could the upside be?

Thanks everyone for your input!

Jason


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## DeniseM (May 12, 2008)

If you can wait until  next fall that might be a good time, because historically we see people "dumping" their timeshares in Nov./Dec. because (high) maintenance fees are due in Jan.   If I was you I would start tracking prices every day for the next few months to get a real feel for the trends.  

Did you see the link in our owner resources sticky for Starwood Timeshares on ebay? - Both active and completed auctions.

Also - 

ebay data base WKORV

ebay database WKORVN


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## ocdb8r (May 12, 2008)

Isn't there a difference between the kitchens at the two resorts?  I think WKORV-N only has convection/microwave combos while WKORV villas have full stove/ovens.  

Believe it or not, to me this might be a deal breaker....the kids love frozen pizzas for a snack!

Oh yeah, I also read the WKORV-N buildings are open air hallways, while WKORV is closed and air conditioned....another minus for -N to me.

C.


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## LisaRex (May 12, 2008)

Personally, I'd take the one where I could negotiate the best deal.  You have a much better chance at getting a good ocean view at the -n property simply because more rooms have ocean views. However, if you ever want to rent or exchange, a guaranteed ocean view will fetch you more money. 

From a thread a few months ago:

If you're trying to figure out if you want to purchase at WKORV or WKORV-N, here are some of the differences:

WKORV
Resort is older, with its first building in 2003
Bigger units when comparing 1 bdrm -> 1 bdrm, etc.
They offer a handful of OF "deluxe" units that are a few hundred feet larger than the standard 2 bdrm, with an equally impressive lanai (25 x 7.5'), but also cost a few hundred $ higher in MFs
Pool has slides
Buildings are perpendicular to the ocean, which gives the OF units a better view, but at the expense of OV and IV units.
The lock-out shares a small common foyer, which might be awkward if you give up or rent out one side or if you have young children who might lock their side.
The lanai only comes with the 1 bdrm side, not the studio villas except the OF villas. (The studio side of OF villas is approx. 90 sq.ft.) The standard lanais are bigger than at the sister property.
The decor is a neutral pallet (reminds me of Floridian interior design)
There are lots of big windows to let in natural light
The table seats 6
Each side of the lock-out has a King bed
2 data ports and wireless capability
Lighted tennis courts
Workout room
Kitchen offers a full oven in the 1bdrm side and a micro/convection oven on the studio side
Hallways are more like hotel hallways (inside/air-conditioned)

WKORV-N
Resort is newly built, with occupancy beginning mid-2007 and being complete in early 2008.
Units are smaller (1 bdrm side is 150 sq. ft smaller than original property and studio is 79 sq. feet smaller), with the living room and master bedroom taking the biggest reduction.
There are no "deluxe" units at all
Kiddie pool has a pirate ship but no slide (and no lazy river)
Buildings are angled, which give OV and IV owners a better view but a lesser view for OF when compared to original
Each side of the lock-out has a door leading directly to the hallway, plus a common door (think of adjoining rooms in a hotel), which might or might not be preferable for parents with young kids.
Each side of the lock-out has its own lanai, with the studio being smaller than the 1 bdrm side, though the lanais are smaller than its sister property
The decor is darker, with cherry wood and black stained furniture (reminds me of "W" hotels - stark lines and "clean" vs. "warm.")
The windows are much smaller and let in less natural light
Dining room table seats four
There's a king in the 1 bdrm side and a queen in the studio side.
Flat screen tv's and four data ports (vs. 2), plus high speed internet
No tennis courts, but you can use the sister property's. There will be a full service spa on the north property. I don't think its sister property has one.
Not sure if they'll have a workout room.
Kitchen has a micro/convection oven (e.g. the 1 bdrm side does NOT have a full oven.
Open air hallways


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## Westin5Star (May 12, 2008)

*WKORV-N Prices Already Coming Down*

UPDATE-
I just looked at myresortnetwork and found and EY WKORV-N 2BR *OF* for $39,900= WOW!  There is also an OV for $34,900.  I would offer the OV $25k and the OF $30k and see what happens.  If they really want to sell then they will counter.  

To answer your most recent question, I think that it is acceptable to offer 20-30% less than the asking offer for your opening bid.  I wouldn't offer much more at first.  I would find 5-10 units for sale and put in all low ball bids to see what happens.  If they haven't been receiving much action on their posting they just may accept it or come in with a very low counter offer.  

With that said, I am glad to see that WKORV is already holding its true OF value better than the not so true OF value at WKORV-N.


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## DeniseM (May 12, 2008)

Westin5Star said:


> UPDATE-
> I just looked at myresortnetwork and found and EY WKORV-N 2BR *OF* for $39,900= WOW!



I guess this is reflective of the fact that WKORVN ocean front owners have been very unhappy with some of the poor views from ocean front units.


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## DavidnRobin (May 12, 2008)

OR...

The advertisment is incorrect... many sellers say OF because it is an "OF" resort... I am skeptical $39K is for OF (but you never know) - make sure you have deeded unit# in hand to verify view class.

BUT...

I agree - show patience and buy OF at WKORV for as little as possible - otherwise,  buy WKV (cheaper and low MFs) and exchange into HI during low season (exactly 8 months in advance) into either WKORV or WKORVN --- or WPORV --- or someday Poipu and WKORVNN -or other SVN resorts.

If you need to travel during high seasons - then buy where you want to go...


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## Denise L (May 12, 2008)

Well, if you are really torn between the two resorts, buy an EOY at each resort  . That way, you can mix it up a bit each year, and then if you ever need to sell, you can sell one at a time  .

We love the original flavor WKORV. Bigger villas, nice pool, great ocean views. There is something so soothing about walking into the lobby and seeing the beautiful ocean and all the palm trees and the lovely pool. I haven't stayed at the newer North, but it seemed that all the North owners with kids were over at the original during Easter Week this year.  So if you don't want crowds, head over to North.

Since both resorts share facilities, either will do in those areas.  If you want an oven (I do, I do!), then WKORV.  If you want a balcony on your studio lanai, then North.  If you want something 4 years younger, then North.

Like I said, buy an EOY at each  !


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## jasonb (May 12, 2008)

*High season dates?*

Sorry for my ignorance - I have looked around and gotten a few different answers...

Exactly what time period is considered high season in Maui - specifically at WKORV/WKORV-n?


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## glenn1000 (May 12, 2008)

jason_stn21 said:


> Glenn - care to expand on why?



Sorry I got busy and did not elaborate earlier. To me, even if I had a choice of OV at each resort I would pick the original WKORV. I like the wide open feeling you get when you look out from the lobby. It's a beautiful view overlooking the pool and the beach and it's all relatively level. At the north property I feel like the resort is narrower and there is less open space between the buildings. Plus you have to go down to the pool level, pools I don't care for as much, though the pirate ship seems great for young kids. 

We own an island view 2-bedroom and an OV 1-bedroom at WKORV and recently traded the studio to stay at the north resort, getting a terrible view. Just because many IV rooms at the north property have decent views does not mean that you will be in those rooms. I believe that resale prices are higher at the north property because it's newer and there are fewer resales right now. The new factor will wear off over time and resale pricing will probably be similar over time. I wish our 2-bedroom was an OV (or OF) but that is our only regret. There is no way I would take an island view over an ocean view to stay in one phase or the other. That's why I say it's easy.

One more thing- the 1-bedroom deluxe OV WKORV units might be plenty big for your use if you have one child. There are a lot of these on the resale market and pricing is a lot lower than when we bought resale.


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## DeniseM (May 12, 2008)

jason_stn21 said:


> Sorry for my ignorance - I have looked around and gotten a few different answers...
> 
> Exactly what time period is considered high season in Maui - specifically at WKORV/WKORV-n?



On the Starwood charts, Maui is high season all year round - Staroption exchanges require the same number of options for all seasons.  The Staroption charts can be found in the Owner Resources sticky at the top of the page.

The most busy seasons in Maui are any time the kids are out of school - summer and all holidays.

The slowest season is Sept. - Mid-Nov.


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## DavidnRobin (May 12, 2008)

Also Late Apr-Early June


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## jasonb (May 12, 2008)

We would most likely be travelling between mid-January and mid-March due to our schedules and the weather here in our part of the world.

The sense I get is that this may be a somewhat busy time?


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## DeniseM (May 12, 2008)

jason_stn21 said:


> We would most likely be travelling between mid-January and mid-March due to our schedules and the weather here in our part of the world.
> 
> The sense I get is that this may be a somewhat busy time?



Yes - you see east coast/mid-west people escaping from the snow this time of year.


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## capjak (May 12, 2008)

we were just at WKOR and had an ocean view.  We looked at WKOR-N island view and it had more ocean view than the WKORV ocean view.. 

WKORV is wider and lobby has a better feel/view than North, North pool area seem closed in.

The North units are newer and IMO look better.  The North pool was alot less crowed as I assume a lot of people perferred the orignal area pool better?

North seemed less crowed on the beach as well and more laid back feel compared to the Original.

Also the North does not have screens on the sliding doors and the kitchen has a convection microwave no oven.

Also I would keep in mind that most people looking to rent will request ocean view even if the view might be better or equal to Island View North.

Both are very nice and you can use either pool that you want we used both over springbreak and had no issues with this so I wouldn't fret over I like this pool better than that pool or this lobby better than that  

We bought North due to newer resort and what I considered too good a deal to pass up (24,000 including 2008 week for 1/2 the dues) and I believe the dues/MF are actually less at the North property.


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## Lawlar (May 12, 2008)

*Whale season*



jason_stn21 said:


> Sorry for my ignorance - I have looked around and gotten a few different answers...
> 
> Exactly what time period is considered high season in Maui - specifically at WKORV/WKORV-n?



I believe that a lot of us enjoy going between December and March/April because that is when the whales are at Maui.  Its a real joy to see.  

Summer is more crowded and airfares more pricey because school is out.

The weather is wonderful all year long.


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## taffy19 (May 12, 2008)

I agree with you  and to see the whales, is a very big plus for us. You hardly need any A/C either but the ocean is cooler than in late summer.  That is one drawback early in the season, at least for me.


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## jasonb (May 13, 2008)

*Current thinking...*

So, based on all the advice so far - here is what I am thinking. Let me know if you think this is realistic.

I know we want 2BR/LO Annual Usage - that is a given.

Based on the postings above and my research, my first preference would be WKORV (but I am not discounting WKORV-N if the price is right - as 2nd preference).

I will go with OV - because anything better is out of the budget that I have set and anything less may hurt when it comes time to rent (or sit on the lanai... )

I guess the main question for me now is whether or not to go ahead with the purchase now or wait until the fall... 

Our plan was to travel in Jan-Mar 2009 time period all along, and use either the studio or 1br side and rent the other out. (If we buy now'ish the 2008 usage would be rented as we have other travel planned in '08).

I would expect that if we closed now'ish - that Jan-Mar 2009 travel would not be a problem as everything should be in order by then?

Say we decide to wait and play the market a bit in hopes of a price decline in the Nov/Dec timeframe: Given a Nov/Dec '08 purchase date + Closing/Escrow/Etc/Etc is it realistic to expect to use the timeshare in Jan-Mar 2009? (I am thinking no...)

Is it theoretically possible that an arrangement could be made with the seller to secure usage in this period? Is that too short of notice for this season?

Thoughts?


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## Troopers (May 13, 2008)

I was in same exact position last year.  We’re a young couple with a two year old and wanted a 2 bdrm lockout (for future kids, extended family and friends).  I purchased an annual 2bdrm lockout OV at WKORV for < $30k last fall with the first year use in 2008.  During escrow, I had the seller make reservations for me for March 2008.  Since the reservation was made only 6+/- months out, I did not expect a great unit but it ended up to be a fabulous unit.  I couldn’t have been more pleased.

Be sure to account for the first year use in the purchase price.


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## vacationtime1 (May 13, 2008)

I would either rent or do a preview package in early 2009.  If Starwood is still offering the preview package, you would get something like 5 nights + car + about $100 of food credits for about $799; you would have to sit through a very  high pressure sales pitch, so be prepared.  Make sure you get put up at WKORV or WKORV-N rather than at a nearby hotel.  Either way, you would be able to check out both properties and see if either is the right choice for you.

*The comments in the previous posts are probably the best collective wisdom you will get anywhere, but that doesn't substitute for your own two feet on the ground.*

My own vote (based on your criteria) would be WKORV OV for about $27,500, but not until you look it over yourself.  No one here is suggesting that prices will be higher a year from now; many believe they will be lower.  So time is on your side; use it to make the best decision for you and your family.


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## DeniseM (May 13, 2008)

capjak said:


> I believe the dues/MF are actually less at the North property.



Actually, they are a bit more:

MF for WKORV 2BR LO Premium:
2006 $ 1,315.84
2007 $ 1,418.27 (7.8% increase)
2008 $ 1,599.29 (12.7% increase)

WKORVN:
2008 $1,653.05


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## LisaRex (May 13, 2008)

I would wait until late summer/early fall to buy.  People will be more apt to negotiate when they are anticipating a $1700 MF bill.  And if gas prices continue to stay high, more people will dump their Hawaii timeshares because they can't afford to fly their family out there.  No sense paying $1700 in MFs if you can't use it. 

And note that you'll soon be out of the home resort priority window in order to lock in your view for January/February '09 anyway.


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## gomike (May 13, 2008)

Do guests have access to each others pools at both resorts?


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## LisaRex (May 13, 2008)

gomike said:


> Do guests have access to each others pools at both resorts?



Yes. Guests have reciprocity arrangements between the two timeshare locations, but not at the Starwood hotels nearby.


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## guse1234 (May 14, 2013)

*WKORV-N has King beds on the Studio side now*



LisaRex said:


> WKORV-N
> There's a king in the 1 bdrm side and a queen in the studio side.



Apparently, this is no longer true.  Both the Studio and 1BR sides of at WKORV-N have King beds.  This was a deal-breaker for me at the North side, until the resort confirmed that all the beds (except the sofa bed) are King now.


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