# Contract cancellation (2017)



## kambc (Feb 23, 2017)

hey all, super newbie here.
Fiancé and I purchased a timeshare from OVC in Cozumel in January. 
I am laid off as of Friday and will not be able to pay my fees.  I have not yet paid a loan payment as it's due March 1. I have paid $2500 CAD for my down payment.
OVC has told me that they can cut my price in half and that's it so far.
Is it possible (has anyone managed) to have a cancellation agreement where I can basically walk away from it and they keep my downpayment?
I'm basically forced to default on them as I have to attempt to pay mortgage and housing related bills first now.
Also, should I have posted this in the Mexican timeshare section?

You know when you wish there was the power to see into the future to avoid bad decisions....

Any help is appreciated, thanks everyone!


----------



## theo (Feb 23, 2017)

kambc said:


> hey all, super newbie here.
> Fiancé and I purchased a timeshare from OVC in Cozumel in January.
> I am laid off as of Friday and will not be able to pay my fees.  I have not yet paid a loan payment as it's due March 1. I have paid $2500 CAD for my down payment.
> OVC has told me that they can cut my price in half and that's it so far.
> ...



I am genuinely sorry for your current plight. Unfortunately, you are long past the time frame in which that club contract could have been cancelled (5 days to rescind in Mexico, I believe).

They are going to keep your down payment in *any* scenario. It's not clear to me from your post whether a loan was involved. If so, you might want to have at least a free initial consultation with a local attorney regarding your options and any protective measures that you might be able to initiate. The potential *good* news here is perhaps that OVC, just a vacation club with no actual "ownership" of anything, just a "membership", *might* just choose to go away on their own once you make it very clear that you are not paying them any more money.

Whatever you do, please do *not* fall for *any* "exit / escape / relief / rescue" operation offering false hope and empty promises. Despite requiring significant upfront money, they cannot and will not actually do anything useful for you when all is said and done. Just don't go there.

I wish you luck.


----------



## Passepartout (Feb 23, 2017)

Basically, I'm just seconding Theo's sage advice. I think that all you can do is express to them that due to circumstances beyond your control that you are unable to pay them anything. Not half, not a quarter, zilch, NOTHING. It may take some letters, phone calls, maybe even turning you over to collection. but eventually they will give up. You won't EVER get your down payment back, so kiss it goodbye. Sorry for the expensive lesson, but honestly it wasn't worth anything if you DID pay it off, so maybe this dark cloud has a silver lining.

Jim


----------



## kambc (Feb 23, 2017)

Yeah no worries about getting the downpayment back.
And it's not like I hate the timeshare, I love it, but I'm a broke ass now that has to take two minimum wage jobs to scrape by til I find a good job again hah.

In my credit card payment agreement it states 
"This authority shall remain in full force and effect until the loan balance is paid in full or OVC has received written notification from me if it's termination in such time as to afford OVC as reasonable opportunity to act on it. I have the right to cancel this authorization by written notification received by OVC at least five days prior to my next payment."

Am I just reading that wrong or can I, in writing, cancel my payments with OVC?
Technically they don't have my visa anymore because the bank changed my card to a rewards type after we got back from Mexico.

Theo- it states that I have a membership, not ownership or anything like that. And the contract has mentioned "loan" so I am guessing this is one? I was told at the club that I was paying monthly to "purchase" my timeshare. Obviously I misunderstood that I was taking a loan.
Thanks for your input already!


----------



## vacationhopeful (Feb 23, 2017)

Cancel the credit card ... and don't open a new/any account with that bank (the issuer) again. Cancel the wife's credit card (if she has one with the same bank) ... you don't want to find any CC/bank account with that bank suddenly getting zapped by the 'timeshare' company.


----------



## kambc (Feb 23, 2017)

The credit card was already cancelled and it was only my credit card. 
You're saying to not use a visa through my bank now?


----------



## vacationhopeful (Feb 23, 2017)

kambc said:


> The credit card was already cancelled and it was only my credit card.
> You're saying to not use a visa through my bank now?



To be SAFE ... ask a bank supervisor at your local branch. You are not the FIRST or ONLY customer .. who does NOT want to be charged/zapped for a disputed charge. And that is WHY I prefer to not use my ATM card for recurring bills.. I write & mail checks when I have the money in the account.


----------



## kambc (Feb 23, 2017)

So I've found Default and Appeal Recourses- In case of default or breach by the member, of any term or condition in this membership sale-purchase contract, including, for example, that the member stopped paying any monthly instalment toward the purchase price or interests thereon immediately after the due date, and that said default continued for a period longer than 60 days, in such case, developer will have the right, after notifying the member of the pending payments toward the purchase price: to (i) terminate this membership sale-purchase contract, applying in any case all amounts paid to closure and damages, as well as the membership week, all parties being thus released of all obligations. Or (ii) demand performance of this membership sale-purchase contract and execute the promissory note to collect the total amount owed by the member.


So (i) would be best case scenario, they keep any and all monies paid and maybe charge a fee for closing?
And (ii) is worst case, still have to pay in full.
Sorry for these questions, my brain is not working due to pounding the overtime in my last three days of employment.


----------



## theo (Feb 23, 2017)

kambc said:


> Theo- it states that I have a membership, not ownership or anything like that. And the contract has mentioned "loan" so I am guessing this is one? I was told at the club that I was paying monthly to "purchase" my timeshare. Obviously I misunderstood that I was taking a loan. Thanks for your input already!



There is no "ownership" of any form or flavor in a Mexican vacation club like OVC. You purchased a membership --- no more, no less.
You also apparently agreed to some sort of "payment plan" for that "membership". That membership merely provides you with a "right to use", but the only "purchase" here was that of the paper membership itself, evidently on a monthly payment plan.

You would be wise to do anything and everything possible to make absolutely *certain* that card gets permanently deactivated --- and do so *before* those parasites can possibly make any unauthorized charges upon it. Don't even think about "closing" charges --- there is no real estate involved and nothing on which to foreclose. All that can really happen is the cancellation of your "membership", which costs them *nothing*.

As far as the quoted legal mumbo jumbo goes, just firmly resolve in your mind to pay absolutely *nothing* further. Period, amen. In my opinion, the likelihood of Occidental Vacation Club pursuing anything more than just keeping whatever money of yours they already have and just cancelling the "membership" is pretty darn slim. After all, they are "out" absolutely nothing of any substance here --- it's basically just a paper membership. They will just wait for the next willing Gringo to come along to sell another paper membership ---and another and another. I don't know for certain, but I'd be willing to bet that OVC has no legal "presence" of any kind in the U.S. with which to facilitate any attempted collection efforts. They'll just move on --- and you should too. Pay them not one more penny.


----------



## kambc (Feb 23, 2017)

Thanks Theo, starting to make me feel a little better. 
I know they have collections in the states, but that may just be for American citizens. I'll wait for their reply tomorrow and see what happens. I was also given the new directors email address and told he can be a bit more help than the hotel folk.


----------



## theo (Feb 23, 2017)

kambc said:


> Thanks Theo, starting to make me feel a little better.
> I know they have collections in the states, but that may just be for American citizens. I'll wait for their reply tomorrow and see what happens. I was also given the new directors email address and told he can be a bit more help than the hotel folk.



It seems perhaps obvious to say this, but Mexico is a different country. The only way that OVC has any legal "reach" here in the U.S. is if they have some form of actual business presence *here*, thereby giving them legal standing in the U.S. to then be able take advantage of U.S. law and procedures (including as relates to collection efforts). If OVC has no legal presence *here* (I certainly do not claim to know), then what happened in Mexico can *stay* in Mexico. U.S. can't and doesn't apply or enforce U.S. law in Mexico --- and a Mexican vacation club has absolutely no "juice" here without having some U.S business or company presence *here*.

Be careful about any supposed "help" that might be offered by that "new director" south of the border. Stay firm in the position that you are paying *nothing* more. They can extend any "help" with that fact very clearly in mind. My guess is that there will be no real "help" (other than perhaps, if you're lucky, a voluntary and immediate cancellation of your membership) once they fully absorb that the bank is now *closed*.
Again, it's no skin off their nose to just cancel the paper "membership" right now if they fully understand and truly believe that they are not going to get so much as another dime from you anyhow. Good luck.


----------



## CarlaS1966 (Jun 11, 2017)

Is there similar advice for Vidanta? We bought their timeshare in mark and they advertised it as real estate, private residence but it is just a timeshare membership.
We had verbal promises not a specified on the contract. Confirmation package was never received.

We are in similar situation of not being able to pay due to a car accident and being away from work.

Any way to get part of down payment would be a great monthly relieve on bills. We are a family if 4.

Thank you
Carla


----------



## LannyPC (Jun 12, 2017)

CarlaS1966 said:


> Is there similar advice for Vidanta? We bought their timeshare in mark and they advertised it as real estate, private residence but it is just a timeshare membership.
> We had verbal promises not a specified on the contract. Confirmation package was never received.
> 
> We are in similar situation of not being able to pay due to a car accident and being away from work.
> ...



The advice most TUGgers would give to people in your situation is to look over you contract and see what would happen if you stop all payments.  The likely result would be that, although you would probably face a lot of collection calls and maybe a hit on your credit score, your membership would be terminated.  You would lose all the money you've sunk into this so far but at least you would not have to pay any more into MFs, etc.

Again, check your contract carefully.


----------



## CarlaS1966 (Jun 12, 2017)

I read my contract and it days cancellation after 5 days would loose initial deposit.

Thank for getting back to me.

Carla


----------



## theo (Jun 12, 2017)

CarlaS1966 said:


> We had verbal promises not specified on the contract. Confirmation package was never received.
> Any way to get part of down payment would be a great monthly relief on bills.



Verbal promises mean *nothing* --- it's just noise floating around in the air. Only what is expressed *in writing within the four corners of the contract* means anything at all, legally speaking. I don't know what that "confirmation package" you mention might be, but it's not a legal requirement and is likely little more than just marketing junk and / or a "welcome, new member" packet of some sort.

Please don't shoot the messenger, but your down payment is gone and you are not getting any of it back.  Focus now on just cutting your future losses.  The 5 days to cancel was provided to to you by law (not by the kindness of the seller), but once beyond that 5 days period you no longer have any legal right to a refund of your deposit.  You can however still choose to just turn around, walk away and pay them *not another penny*.

You can attempt to challenge the validity of the transaction with PROFECO, but PROFECO cannot and will not help you unless you can very convincingly articulate and demonstrate serious wrongdoing (e.g., they had you sign a "waiver" of cancellation rights, or got you blotto drunk before contract execution, or something equally egregious). Lying to you with a straight face is unfortunately o.k. --- and it's ultimately your word against theirs anyhow in the absence of any supportive documentation. Unless you can somehow prevail via PROFECO, you are essentially just plain out of luck regarding your deposit. Sorry.


----------



## theo (Jul 14, 2017)

slakad said:


> If you are still needing to get your money back/get out your contract, contact me i may be able to help. *i have myself just got out of an OVC*



Are you suggesting that you actually received a *refund* of any monies paid --- *after* expiration of the applicable contract rescission period?
I see in other posts of yours a claim to have been offered a partial refund, after expiration of rescission period. That alone is very unusual --- to say the least.
I am asking pointedly if you actually  *received* (never mind just reportedly being "offered") a monetary refund *in hand*.

Anyone can get "out" of a Mexican "club membership" by simply ceasing to pay their fees, soon enough resulting in termination of the "membership".
However, outside of the 5 days rescission period in Mexico, I've never actually heard of *any* instance in which anyone actually received any money *back*.
Are you now claiming otherwise? Please, do tell...


----------



## slakad (Jul 14, 2017)

Hi Theo,

Yes thats exactly what I am saying, a little bit of reading about on the internet can let you know exactly where to hit them, though i dont want to be too optimistic as my money is still awaiting return, But they have accepted what i have said and asked for my bank details. i will keep all informed.


----------



## theo (Jul 17, 2017)

slakad said:


> Hi Theo,
> 
> Yes thats exactly what I am saying, a little bit of reading about on the internet can let you know exactly where to hit them, though i dont want to be too optimistic as my money is still awaiting return, But *they have accepted what i have said and asked for my bank details.* i will keep all informed.



We will all be very interested here to see if you ever ultimately receive *any* money back (you would certainly be among the very first). As discussed elsewhere, if you give out any "bank account" info, please make sure it's info for a new, stand alone account in which there is little or no other money and one which you can (and should) close out immediately after the alleged imminent funds are received and "cleared".

I do not believe that you will ever see *any* money returned to you. Quite frankly, I smell a rat here somewhere, but will be delighted to be entirely mistaken.


----------



## slakad (Jul 17, 2017)

We will see, sounds very genuine so far,


----------



## Jaclyn (Aug 3, 2017)

Hi, I was wondering what your outcome was? I'm in a similar situation as yours but haven't made any payments yet to them and it's been 2 weeks since signing that stupid contract. I emailed the OVC for cancellation and once they called me for further details it was hell to stop their lies. I contacted the credit company and they told me they will hold that transaction and dispute my claim for 30 days. But is it possible to just cancel that credit card with a processing transaction attached to it? And how long did it take for you to cancel your membership?


----------



## Danica (Aug 3, 2017)

Hi--I'm in a similar situation. I got the Timeshare Liquidators (TLC resorts w/ Advantage Program) in Vegas last June 24. I paid the downpayment and first installment. Have not received the info on resorts yet but already having buyers remorse checking out the Advantage Program (I just got access to the site yesterday). I'm now beyond the rescission period and don't know what to do to cancel the contract. At this point, I'm probably okay with losing the deposit (I'll consider that an expensive life lesson) but would really like to get out of the contract. Looked into some companies that said they will help cancel the timeshare but at this point, I feel like I can't trust any of these people. Do I have any chance to get out of this?


----------



## Passepartout (Aug 3, 2017)

Danica said:


> Hi--I'm in a similar situation. I got the Timeshare Liquidators (TLC resorts w/ Advantage Program) in Vegas last June 24. I paid the downpayment and first installment. Have not received the info on resorts yet but already having buyers remorse checking out the Advantage Program (I just got access to the site yesterday). I'm now beyond the rescission period and don't know what to do to cancel the contract. At this point, I'm probably okay with losing the deposit (I'll consider that an expensive life lesson) but would really like to get out of the contract. Looked into some companies that said they will help cancel the timeshare but at this point, I feel like I can't trust any of these people. Do I have any chance to get out of this?


At this point, there is probably nothing- short of bankruptcy or default and foreclosure that will 'get you out' of this contract.  DO NOT sign up with anyone you pay an upfront fee to. Those are all scams. No law firm or amount of pixie dust will magically make a valid contract disappear. Sorry. But you are in good company here. About half of TUGgers bought their first TS from the developer. So stick around and learn to use what you bought.

Jim


----------



## Danica (Aug 4, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> At this point, there is probably nothing- short of bankruptcy or default and foreclosure that will 'get you out' of this contract.  DO NOT sign up with anyone you pay an upfront fee to. Those are all scams. No law firm or amount of pixie dust will magically make a valid contract disappear. Sorry. But you are in good company here. About half of TUGgers bought their first TS from the developer. So stick around and learn to use what you bought.
> 
> Jim


Jim: Thank you for your honest advice! I actually talked to a real estate lawyer this morning. He was surprisingly frank about his fees ($325/hr) and told me that the first thing he would do is just write a letter to TLC (which would cost around $1k), but he is pretty certain they will deny it claiming the contract was signed in Nevada and I would have to get a Nevada lawyer. I realized then that maybe it would be better to cut my losses and just pay my contract in full (~$5700) to avoid having them earn more money from me (@ 19% interest!). But before I do that, I'm going to check out Legal Action Workshop company in Glendale, CA which is a flat fee law firm. I doubt they will be able to help me get out of my contract, but maybe they can help me understand anything else in the contract I need to be aware of. Another lawyer reached out to me as well, but I have not talked to. His name is Mitchell Sussman (timesharelegalaction). His message to me sounds too good to be true saying his work is 100% guaranteed. I find it hard to believe any lawyer would do that. But he has a clean record and said the total fee he would charge me for this case is $1495 (flat fee pending more information from me--which is weird, because then it wouldn't be flat fee anymore right?). Has anyone in this group ever heard of him?

Also, when you say "half of TUGgers bought their first TS from the developer", are you referring to TLC as well? I thought these guys are more like brokers? Sorry--I'm such a newbie at this.


----------



## TUGBrian (Aug 4, 2017)

anyone trying to extract money from you is going to offer a "guarantee"...otherwise youd be less likely to fall for the pitch.


----------



## theo (Aug 4, 2017)

Danica said:


> Another lawyer reached out to me as well, but I have not talked to. His name is Mitchell Sussman (timesharelegalaction). His message to me sounds too good to be true saying his work is 100% guaranteed. I find it hard to believe any lawyer would do that. But he has a clean record and said the total fee he would charge me for this case is $1495 (flat fee pending more information from me--which is weird, because then it wouldn't be flat fee anymore right?). Has anyone in this group ever heard of him?



I'll first reiterate my personal belief that NO attorney, no matter how capable or energetic, possesses any "magic beans" or "secret processes" by which to magically extricate someone from a legally binding contractual obligation, most certainly including a voluntarily assumed loan debt. None. Period. The End.

To answer your specific question above, Mitchell Sussman is an attorney in California. I watched a videotaped interview with him in the not too distant past that I had inadvertently stumbled upon while doing some timeshare related "research". My own impression (perhaps mistaken) was that Mr. Sussman apparently believes that there are "loopholes" *in California law* that he believes himself able to somehow exploit on behalf of owners of timeshares *in California*. Whether his assertion has any merit or substance I certainly do not claim to know. Whether or not he professes to have similar "strategies" for timeshare ownerships in *other* states I also do not claim to know.  However, he made *no* references to possessing any magic beans or secret elixirs during the interview.


----------



## Passepartout (Aug 4, 2017)

Danica said:


> Also, when you say "half of TUGgers bought their first TS from the developer", are you referring to TLC as well? I thought these guys are more like brokers? Sorry--I'm such a newbie at this.


Forgive my ignorance. But exactly WHAT did you buy? Is TLC a broker of resales, or foreclosures, or do they market full retail developer weeks? If they market resales (timeshares that were previously owned by another private party), Nevada Real Estate law gave them a nice little gift. In Nevada, resale timeshares DO NOT have a 'Right of Rescission'. No cooling off period. All sales are final. That's why so many timeshare resale outfits have set up shop there.

But anyway, pray tell us what you bought. As in what resort, what week or season, size of unit, which exchange co. (RCI or II), and for how much are you on the hook?

I still don't think that signing up for ANY upfront fee outfit is wise. Our experience here is that as soon as you pay them, they, along with your money, disappear.

Jim


----------



## Danica (Aug 4, 2017)

theo said:


> I'll first reiterate my personal belief that NO attorney, no matter how capable or energetic, possesses any "magic beans" or "secret processes" by which to magically extricate someone from a legally binding contractual obligation, most certainly including a voluntarily assumed loan debt. None. Period. The End.
> 
> To answer your specific question above, Mitchell Sussman is an attorney in California. I watched a videotaped interview with him in the not too distant past that I had inadvertently stumbled upon while doing some timeshare related "research". My own impression (perhaps mistaken) was that Mr. Sussman apparently believes that there are "loopholes" *in California law* that he believes himself able to somehow exploit on behalf of owners of timeshares *in California*. Whether his assertion has any merit or substance I certainly do not claim to know. Whether or not he professes to have similar "strategies" for timeshare ownerships in *other* states I also do not claim to know.  However, he made *no* references to possessing any magic beans or secret elixirs during the interview.



Thanks for your input on Mitchell Sussman. I agree with your statement about the lawyers. Even if they can somehow find some small loophole to pursue, the risk and headache are not worth it.


----------



## Danica (Aug 4, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> Forgive my ignorance. But exactly WHAT did you buy? Is TLC a broker of resales, or foreclosures, or do they market full retail developer weeks? If they market resales (timeshares that were previously owned by another private party), Nevada Real Estate law gave them a nice little gift. In Nevada, resale timeshares DO NOT have a 'Right of Rescission'. No cooling off period. All sales are final. That's why so many timeshare resale outfits have set up shop there.
> 
> But anyway, pray tell us what you bought. As in what resort, what week or season, size of unit, which exchange co. (RCI or II), and for how much are you on the hook?
> 
> ...



They call themselves a "vacation club": TLC Resorts Vacation Club an RCI Global Points Affiliate. To my understanding, we purchased points to have access to over 4,000 resorts globally. The membership also includes the Advantage Program which the contract says is a service program and not a real estate or timeshare. They allow conversion of vacation ownerships to Advantage Credits to use on paying the maintenance fee/club fee, redeem credits for travel or cash. The principal sum of my loan at the time of signing was $5689.90, to bear interest at the rate of 19.9%. Annual member dues is $599.00 which can also be paid using Advantage Credits. Another page of the contract says that TLC is an authorized RCI points reseller. The contract gave a 5-day rescission period.

I guess I am out of luck here. Any advice anyone can give on making the most out of this purchase would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Passepartout (Aug 4, 2017)

Danica said:


> I guess I am out of luck here. Any advice anyone can give on making the most out of this purchase would be greatly appreciated.


OK, so $5689 and $599/yr. mf. Any idea how many annual RCI Points this membership translates to? It could honestly be worse. For starters, travel clubs are not well thought of here, as they simply have access to leftovers from- in this case, RCI. Yeah, RCI has something like 4,000 resorts, but believe me, you won't see Disneys or Hiltons, or other top end resorts in the online catalog. You also can't (I don't think) 'reserve in advance' certain better resorts or more desirable weeks. 

At this stage, about all you can do is try it. Save the (gulp) 19% by paying it off. This, nor darn near ANY TS has much if any resale value, so that's about a wash. The 'good' news is that if/when you decide it's time to move on, here's no deed, hence no legal ties. It should be easy to simply quit. You'll get some (hopefully) nice vacations and build some great family memories.

Good Luck. I don't know how much experience you'll find here with the travel club, but there might be some like me who have RCI Points experience, though I'm not sure how well it translates.

Best wishes, and we're glad you found us, anyway.

Jim


----------



## Danica (Aug 4, 2017)

Thank you, Jim! You and the others who responded have been so helpful. We will get 20,000 RCI points per year. It says I can use the points on airfare, rental car, cruises, hotels (but would maximize it if used on resorts). I can stay by the night or by the week. The deeds are held by TLC. No escalating HOA dues or Special Assessments, Membership dues are fixed for life of the membership. In addition to RCI points, I get 2 extra vacation bonus weeks (which I guess increases the point value to 40,000?). They told me (at the presentation) that I can keep the points accruing up to 4 years, so I guess if I only do 2 weeks of vacation per year, I can just use the bonus weeks for those. I can book my bonus weeks up to one year in advance based on availability, excluding major holidays. No annual fees related to bonus weeks, only a reserving fee of $249. It also says my reservation is guaranteed. In addition, I can use my points to cover the membership fees by converting the points to advantage credits.

Any here seem unbelievable? Still trying to understand the relationship between RCI and the Advantage Program. Thanks again!


----------



## Passepartout (Aug 4, 2017)

I think the Advantage program is a TLC thing. Nothing to do with RCI. First. 20k is not a big stash of points. It will take 2 year's worth to book a 'better' 1 bedroom for a prime time week. Only use these for vacation stays. They are not worth the MF you pay for them on all that other stuff. Is there any mention of Last Calls? Those are cash paid weeks for under $300/wk. There can be some nice catches if your needs are flexible. If you are tied to a school schedule, not so much.

Best advice to maximize the value will be to travel in off, or shoulder season.

Another question, can you book directly with RCI, or are all bookings through the travel club?

That's about it for now. We wish you'd found us before you spent the money, by that's water under the bridge. Stick around, and read ad re-read the stuff they gave you. If they have phone reps, call and see if you can actually book something, like Hawaii, or Puerto Vallarta then just cancel or tell them you have to clear it with your significant other. That's how you'll find out whether it's useable.


----------



## Danica (Aug 4, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> I think the Advantage program is a TLC thing. Nothing to do with RCI. First. 20k is not a big stash of points. It will take 2 year's worth to book a 'better' 1 bedroom for a prime time week. Only use these for vacation stays. They are not worth the MF you pay for them on all that other stuff. Is there any mention of Last Calls? Those are cash paid weeks for under $300/wk. There can be some nice catches if your needs are flexible. If you are tied to a school schedule, not so much.
> 
> Best advice to maximize the value will be to travel in off, or shoulder season.
> 
> ...



Jim: Thanks for the tips! I will call their customer care for more info. I haven't received the RCI info in the mail yet. They said it will take 90 days from the time I signed. I'll let you know what happens. Also, my schedule is pretty flexible so I'll definitely take advantage of that. Thanks again!


----------



## Dani.D (Sep 10, 2017)

Hi there,

My parents (who are from Canada) have a timeshare in Mexico through the Sunset Beach Clubs, which supposedly can be used at the Hacienda Tres Rios, Sunset Lagoon or the Royal Sunset in Cancun. After reading over the contract and doing lots of research, it's clear they have become victims of an insanely expensive scam. They made a down payment and have made a few monthly payments to FINCO, as well as paying maintenance fees, but the payments are way more than they realized, especially being that they have to be paid in US funds and the Canadian to US exchange rate has been terrible for the past while. Not only that, they are making the payments on credit cards, which obviously have ridiculous interest. They have missed a couple payments to FINCO and after months of them trying to get money from my parents, the timeshare people are now saying they will not delay the payments any longer and are going to send a collections agency after them. 

I contacted a Consulate of Mexico office here in Canada and they gave me the information to get in touch with Profeco, but before I go ahead and do that, I'm hoping that someone here might be able to give us some advice. I need to get my parents out of their contract asap, I'm just not sure what the best way to go about it would be at this point. If anyone has been in a similar situation and/or can shed some light on what to do, as well as if legally they are allowed to send debt collectors being that it's a foreign country, any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!


----------



## Passepartout (Sep 10, 2017)

I wouldn't pay them another penny. There is no deed. They might file a derogatory  report with a credit agency, but that can be refuted. Your parents will lose what they've paid, but if they paid it off, they would lose that too, as Mexican timeshares have zero value, except in their use and the memories you get from that. They should cancel any credit cards this outfit can debit, and not answer any of their calls. I honestly doubt there is any legitimate claim against them.

As usual, my advice comes with a money back guarantee. It may well be worth what it costs.

Jim


----------



## Dani.D (Sep 10, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> I wouldn't pay them another penny. There is no deed. They might file a derogatory  report with a credit agency, but that can be refuted. Your parents will lose what they've paid, but if they paid it off, they would lose that too, as Mexican timeshares have zero value, except in their use and the memories you get from that. They should cancel any credit cards this outfit can debit, and not answer any of their calls. I honestly doubt there is any legitimate claim against them.
> 
> As usual, my advice comes with a money back guarantee. It may well be worth what it costs.
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim,

Thank you for your advice. I agree that they shouldn't pay anything more. They haven't paid it off, and because they are not current with their payments, they can't even use the timeshare. The maintenance fees alone are between $949-1499 US (they have a flex program for different unit types), as well as the loan fees owing to FINCO which is apparently almost $8500 US, and a total balance owing on the timeshare of $56,000 US, financed over 84 monthly with a 4.9% interest rate. On top of that, there is a mandatory all-inclusive package that they have to pay for, per-person, if they did use any of their weeks. From my perspective, with interest rates and exchange rates and all of these fees, there is no way this timeshare is worth what the resort and timeshare company has "valued" it at. It's heartbreaking to know that they don't actually own anything for which they've poured their hard earned money into, and that they won't be able to recoup any of those funds. 

I will be sure to tell them to cancel any credit cards they've given to the timeshare company. Do you think I should contact/get involved with Profeco to help deal with the situation? Or do you think we should contact the resort/timeshare company to firmly state they want their contract cancelled? Or should we just cut off communication with them altogether? My parents aren't good with this stuff, so they haven't taken any steps to deal with the situation. I'm just nervous about what step to take next, as I would hate to see a collections agency actually come after them, or for their credit score to be ruined because of this. 

Again, Thank you so much for your input!


----------



## Passepartout (Sep 10, 2017)

I don't think PROFECO can/will do anything since there was no fraud or anything, and your parents are simply deciding that the product is not worth the price and they are defaulting.

I know that people consider their credit very important, but often older folks who have everything paid off, and are secure, actually have no real need for credit. And actually, $56,000 will go a long way towards making them feel better.

I might be tempted to write, or have an attorney write a 'pound sand' letter and tell the finance company to do whatever they want to do, but they won't see another cent. The credit will repair itself in time, and the reporting agencies allow a letter of explanation in their file. Subsequent credit check will probably look more favorably on defaulting a Mexican TS than paying $56,000 on a worthless luxury good.

Jim


----------



## LannyPC (Sep 11, 2017)

I will add to Passepartout/Jim's good advice.  Do *not *go seeking the assistance of any of these companies or firms that claim they can help your parents cancel their contract and/or loan.  There are many out there waiting to pounce on people like those in the situation in which your parents find themselves.

They will charge a large upfront fee and many of them either do nothing or do something that you (or your parents) can do yourself for a lot less money.


----------



## theo (Sep 11, 2017)

> Do you think I should contact/get involved with Profeco to help deal with the situation? Or do you think we should contact the resort/timeshare company to firmly state they want their contract cancelled? Or should we just cut off communication with them altogether?



As already noted, Profeco can't / won't help them. Profeco would only be of any use or assistance if there had been actionable impropriety in the contract execution --- and likely only then if assistance had been promptly sought within a brief time period after the contract was initially executed.  Frankly, their best bet now is to simply and immediately *cease* any and all future payments (and communications). Their "membership" will ultimately be terminated and they will have no further access to the property. So what?  Seems smarter than continuing to pump good money into something of literally zero resale value.

Frankly, I wouldn't worry about collection efforts being initiated in Canada for a worthless RTU contract in Mexico. There is no actual ownership of anything anyhow and the Mexican operation knows that plenty of other willing gringos are right around the corner ready to "sign up". The Mexicans will simply keep whatever money they have collected so far and just move on. Don't let your parents be intimidated by empty, meaningless  threats emanating from Mexico.


----------



## Dani.D (Sep 13, 2017)

Jim, Lanny and Theo,
Thank you all so much for your advice! It's been very helpful and has eased a bit of the anxiety that we've been dealing with. 

I've stumbled upon a contract and promissory note with the financing company that perhaps you could help me with? 
FINCONPRO (FINCO), the company with which they have the outstanding loan amount that went toward part of the down payment, seems to be affiliated with Sunset Group, but I'm not sure if it's a completely separate company or just in the finance department of Sunset. On the contract with FINCO, there is a section that reads: 
"*Loan Guarantee *- The recipient agrees that if the Credit Line is not paid on the payment due date, the recipient authorizes the RESORT and FINCO to add FINCONPRO S.A. de C.V.'s name and/or its assigns as principal owner(s) to the contract # xxxx being purchased from the RESORT, giving FINCO and/or its assigns the right to cancel the above mentioned contract without notice." "*Special Consideration* - The recipient of the credit line authorizes the RESORT that, in the case of a cancelation of the contract, for any reason, to return directly to FINCO the full amount of the credit line."
"*Note Acceptance* - ....Recipient of credit line agrees that, in the event legal action arises in connection with this credit line, the successful party shall recover from the other, responsible and actual legal costs and attorney fees, as governed by the state of Quintana Roo, Mexico."

I'm not sure if I'm reading that correctly, but it sounds to me like if the payments are in default, FINCO has the authority to cancel the contract and take the full amount of the loan back from the resort? If that's the case, I'm guessing the only reason why the people from the resort/sunset are threatening my parents would be because they would lose that down payment? Please correct me if I have misinterpreted that information. 

At this point, I think my only concerns are:
-If FINCO is a separate company from Sunset, then I would be more concerned about the threat of collections. 
-If my parents continue to cease all payments and communication, and basically avoid the whole situation, would it potentially affect their future ability to vacation in Mexico? Theo, I know you had mentioned about not being able to use the specific resort, which would be fine. I would just hate to see them book a vacation at a different resort in the future and they get flagged or something as soon as they enter the country. 

Thanks again everyone!


----------



## Passepartout (Sep 13, 2017)

Dani.D said:


> At this point, I think my only concerns are:
> -If FINCO is a separate company from Sunset, then I would be more concerned about the threat of collections.
> -If my parents continue to cease all payments and communication, and basically avoid the whole situation, would it potentially affect their future ability to vacation in Mexico? Theo, I know you had mentioned about not being able to use the specific resort, which would be fine. I would just hate to see them book a vacation at a different resort in the future and they get flagged or something as soon as they enter the country.


There will be noises made about legal ramifications, but (in my *opinion* and nothing more than that) I don't think they can bring suit in any American court, and the only leverage they have is to cancel the membership- which is what your parents want anyway.

There will be NOTHING that flags your parents from entering Mexico, or staying at the resort next door to where they default. Nobody checks your (or their or anybody else's) credit rating before stamping a visa into a passport.

As I may have mentioned in this thread, your parents (or a friendly lawyer) might want to write whoever holds this promissory note that they are welcome to whatever collateral  is the surety of this loan, but that they have paid ALL they are paying, and they are not paying a single cent more.


----------



## famy27 (Sep 14, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> There will be noises made about legal ramifications, but (in my *opinion* and nothing more than that) I don't think they can bring suit in *any American court*, and the only leverage they have is to cancel the membership- which is what your parents want anyway.



From what Dani said about the exchange rate, I'm gathering they are Canadian. I suspect that the chances of FINCO bringing suit in a Canadian court are even lower.


----------



## Karl Villarosa (Aug 6, 2019)

Good day danny my name is karl and i live in canada.. i have the same situation with your parents however i am only 30 years old and i have 2 kids.. How did your parents escape sunset group and finco?


----------



## MarnieC333 (Feb 11, 2020)

Karl Villarosa said:


> Good day danny my name is karl and i live in canada.. i have the same situation with your parents however i am only 30 years old and i have 2 kids.. How did your parents escape sunset group and finco?


Sadly we fell for the same scam in December 2019. They promised we would have equity of $150,000 in 5 years. we just hired a lawyer (in B.C.) to get us out of the contract. This has been a costly mistake for us.
Did your situation get resolved?


----------



## LannyPC (Feb 11, 2020)

What exactly did you buy and for how much?  If you give a few more details, we might be able to help you avoid further costly mistakes.

Do you really think that a lawyer is going to get you out of your contract?


----------

