# Current Advice from Real Estate Agents



## stmartinfan (Apr 4, 2021)

Clifffaith's post about cleaning a cooktop in advance of selling their home reminded me about a recent article in the Wall Street Journal (not posting link because it's unlikely It's accessible) that offered some advice about home sales in today's market,

The three take aways that struck me:

Don't bother with the usual fixes and decluttering recommended prior to listing a home for sale.  Demand in most markets is so high buyers are overlooking all the little things that might have been seen as discouraging offers before.  

Don't buy a fixer upper, because the cost of materials and shortage of qualified contractors can make the costs higher than in the past.

if you're a senior looking to downsize and don't already have a second home you're moving to, you may be better waiting until the market cools a bit.  Finding a new home will be challenging and if you end up having to rent, you may eat up extra dollars you could get selling now.

We're at the downsizing stage and have been looking at stuff we might need to do, so the thought of selling without bothering is appealing, but there is definitely a shortage of homes in the senior development we're Interested in for the future,  

Anybody actually in the market right now?


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## easyrider (Apr 4, 2021)

stmartinfan said:


> Anybody actually in the market right now?



Friends of our just bought a house. They were early in the building process of building their house while the material prices escalated to unbelievably high. They decided to stop the building and sell the lot. The house they bought was right up the hill from their lot. They paid full price and have to wait until summer to move in as part of the sales agreement. 

Houses have been selling pretty fast in our area for the last few years.

Bill


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## heathpack (Apr 4, 2021)

Our neighbors just listed their house and within 48hr got an offer $95k over asking price.      

My Mom just sold her house in NY- 15 offers in a week!

A friend here in town didn’t want a bunch of people traipsing through her house. She did something unusual, I forget what she called it- maybe “previewing” the house.  She had three offers over asking price before it got listed.  Took the best one and called it a day.

Its crazy out there.

PS My Mom did not spruce up her house, the others had nicely decorated houses that showed well.


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## controller1 (Apr 4, 2021)

We have friends who purchased their current home for $400K in June 2020. In March 2021 he got a job offer out of state and placed their house on the market for $450K to test the price. Four days later it sold for the $450K. He had done absolutely no improvements to the house since purchase 8 months earlier.


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## am1 (Apr 4, 2021)

Hopefully the market drops.


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## MICROZE (Apr 4, 2021)

Almost all homes for sale around Seattle switch to "Pending" within 1-2 days of listing and almost all go or well over asking.
A friend who has been trying to purchase failed for over 6 months as every home ended up in a bidding war with "no conditions".
Last month, he finally closed on a home in a neighborhood on the outskirts of Seattle. This was listed at $950K and it took $1.2M for him to win the bid.
This was $1.2M for a cookie-cutter 2000-Sqft home sitting on a 3900-Sqft lot.

Even new-home builders have gotten in on the bidding wars and only release 2-3 homes at a time inviting bids from potential buyers.

This has got to be the next bubble waiting to burst.
However, all the money being printed [combined with low interest-rates] means that the bubble will only get bigger for a while before making for for a real big pop.


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## TravelTime (Apr 4, 2021)

I just sold a condo on the SF Bay for almost $400,000 than we paid 2 years ago.


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## Magus (Apr 4, 2021)

There is not going to be a correction anytime soon - Fed Gov and Fed Reserve combined have added around $5T in new money in the last twelve months. Its going in to real assets. RE, stocks are the primary examples. The real question, IMO, is when this spills over into everything else. If it does, anyone's timeshares may appreciate quickly here.


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## bizaro86 (Apr 4, 2021)

stmartinfan said:


> Clifffaith's post about cleaning a cooktop in advance of selling their home reminded me about a recent article in the Wall Street Journal (not posting link because it's unlikely It's accessible) that offered some advice about home sales in today's market,
> 
> The three take aways that struck me:
> 
> ...



We are the process of helping my father in law downsize. His detached house sold at asking price (which was 15% more than I thought he'd get when we started the process a month ago) in 1 day.

But the senior living condo he bought had been on the market for nearly a year. Others in the same building sold for much more than he paid. I think its very likely the original (very ugly) carpet was an issue for buyers, and the discount he got will more than cover replacing the flooring (with enough to buy a new sedan left over).

I think part of the issue is the people selling a seniors condo are either usually moving into LTC or its the family of a deceased resident. In either case not a group that wants to do a reno before they sell. But buyers are also less likely to want to do a reno. So the premium for units that were already updated was very high.


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## Chrispee (Apr 5, 2021)

We just sold our place in Vancouver off-market by casually mentioning we were going to sell to our realtor.  He sells most of the houses in our neighbourhood so we knew it would only be a matter of days before he had a client who would be interested.  I hated to sell without publicly listing it and finding out exactly how crazy the market was, but we got what we wanted.  No fixing up, no staging, no open houses, and no seller's agent commission.


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## Bucky (Apr 5, 2021)

Construction cost and the resale market are indeed crazy right now.

I just paid to have our 20x28 deck tore down because it was much cheaper to have done than if I had bought the needed lumber to repair it and fixed it myself!

We also bought a vacation home in Myrtle Beach last August. Just a couple of days ago another resale one in the same sub hit the market with the exact same floor plan as ours for more $100K more than what we paid! Crazy.


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## Big Matt (Apr 5, 2021)

House prices are based on supply (not demand).  There will be a continued shortage of new housing stock until logistics get back to normal and developers can build again without shortages of materials and labor.   Just think about how musical chairs works.  That's what the sales process is right now in neighborhoods like mine.  A friend has bid on 9 houses and lost every one even bidding above list price.  

My advice in this type of market is to consider selling without a realtor.   Put it on Zillow/Realtor.com and see what happens.


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## joestein (Apr 5, 2021)

We are in the process of buying a new home.   We got very lucky and purchased a home that was not listed.  Our agent had a friend who was a friend of the seller.   We went to look at the house and offered them what we THOUGHT they wanted on the spot.      They wanted $30K more.    They agreed to split the difference.   We still got to have an inspection.   Many offers today are no inspection.  I think we got lucky.  I think we are paying a fair price.  However, it is not a steal as the roof and windows need to be repaired, which I didn't realize at the time of offer.

We are also selling our house.  We put it on Zillow on Thursday and now have about 2100 view and 112 saves.   We are hoping for a story similiar to the above like $95K over asking.  

I told my wife I am going to dance in the street in front of the house if we get over a certain amount.


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## stmartinfan (Apr 5, 2021)

joestein said:


> I told my wife I am going to dance in the street in front of the house if we get over a certain amount.



Sounds Like you're in a good position.  Maybe a video for TUG if you're dancing!


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## DaveNV (Apr 5, 2021)

When we sold our home in Washington state last Summer, (a small town 75 miles north of Seattle) I had already spent time cleaning it up, moving everything out, touching up a few things, and making it as show-ready as possible.  (My Mother sold real estate, and she'd have killed me if I didn't do that sort of thing, regardless of the market.)  We listed it completely vacant (no staging) on July 4th weekend, and it hit the market at exactly the right time.  We had nine showings the first day, and five offers to buy - two at list price, and three above list.  We ended up closing at $33K over what the agent suggested would be a good list price.  If we had held out, we could have gotten even more, perhaps up to $50K over, but I didn't want to hassle with it. We accepted the best and strongest offer, and closed escrow 34 days later. Done and done.

Dave


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## AndySamuels (Apr 6, 2021)

I turned down a job offer in Tampa metro in February. There are no affordable / quality houses available in my price range. Plus Tampa metro is now on par with Miami metro for home pricing. It used to be 20% cheaper but salaries are still 15% lower. So it makes no sense to move.

Houses priced to market sell the same day they are listed in our HOA. Except for houses where people lost their mind and are asking $75K to $100K above market. My neighbor right across the street tried that and removed the listing last week.

Realtors are pretty desperate for listings here: lots of events, flyers and emails for months now.

There is still a lot of inventory: but mostly condos and homes in bad school districts (most are in Miami metro).

Cleaning, repainting, fixing a home is always the better choice: will likely boost offers & interest. Plus decluttering is always good: less to move / unpack.

Homes in excellent school districts usually sell super fast in Miami metro anyway. Most realtors have waiting lists. In 2018 we sold our home before it was listed $10K over. There is very little to no land to build HOAs. Most builds that do occur are townhomes (small lots with density: profitability for developer) or $1M+: also profitability. Large HOA development in the $400 to $700K range is now virtually impossible.

You have to move pretty far N (Palm Beach County) or pretty far S (Homestead) for cheaper new developments. Which is very peripheral from the MIA/FLL core.









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Another issue are HOA fees and abysmal performance of HOA boards, management companies, landscaping companies and so on. Filed 20 forms for violations / needed repairs last weekend. I also forced the landscaper to do their job yesterday. They tried to blow debris / leaves onto my yard again instead of cleaning it up as they are required to.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 6, 2021)

We have a townhouse we are fixing up to sell.  If we had sold it last year, we would have gotten $335K, maybe, but this year, one just like it sold for $380K.  I think low interest rates are driving the market.


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## Snazzylass (Apr 6, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> House prices are based on supply (not demand).  There will be a continued shortage of new housing stock until logistics get back to normal and developers can build again without shortages of materials and labor.   Just think about how musical chairs works.  That's what the sales process is right now in neighborhoods like mine.  A friend has bid on 9 houses and lost every one even bidding above list price.
> 
> My advice in this type of market is to consider selling without a realtor.   Put it on Zillow/Realtor.com and see what happens.


Naw, it is supply & Demand! It is low rates, too, like @rickandcindy23 said.

If you are serious about selling, definitely contact a realtor! Just like 2 posts here, they were able to sell without putting their home on the market because the realtors have buyers. I have a friend who just bought a 2nd home that never went on the market. Her realtor was contacted by a seller and put the two together. It was the same for me when I was selling real estate. Once I left my office to meet with a seller and had the buyer in mind - who paid well over her asking price. I had that happen more than once and that was 10 years ago in a less than hot market. It's all about who you know


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## Big Matt (Apr 6, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> Naw, it is supply & Demand! It is low rates, too, like @rickandcindy23 said.
> 
> If you are serious about selling, definitely contact a realtor! Just like 2 posts here, they were able to sell without putting their home on the market because the realtors have buyers. I have a friend who just bought a 2nd home that never went on the market. Her realtor was contacted by a seller and put the two together. It was the same for me when I was selling real estate. Once I left my office to meet with a seller and had the buyer in mind - who paid well over her asking price. I had that happen more than once and that was 10 years ago in a less than hot market. It's all about who you know



It is not about demand.  If you said quantity demanded, I would agree with you.  I know it's geeky econ stuff...... price moves along the supply curve

I'll give you an example: Let's say there are ten houses on the market and 15 buyers.  Also assume that all 15 buyers have to find a house because they are relocating for work.  All 15 know that there are only 10 houses, and some may start picking specific houses that they are interested in.  At first the houses will sell for market value, but as they all start selling, buyers will start to realize that they are being outbid and start to raise their offers.  When there is only one house left and there are six bidders the price will go up because there is no more supply.  Quanty demanded stayed the same the entire time (there are five more buyers than houses), but as supply decreases, the prices go up.

Your example overemphasizes my point.  The closed system with many buyers and one property is why it sold above market.


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## AndySamuels (Apr 6, 2021)

Low rates enable more demand.


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## Snazzylass (Apr 8, 2021)

Big Matt said:


> It is not about demand.  If you said quantity demanded, I would agree with you.  I know it's geeky econ stuff...... price moves along the supply curve
> 
> I'll give you an example: Let's say there are ten houses on the market and 15 buyers.  Also assume that all 15 buyers have to find a house because they are relocating for work.  All 15 know that there are only 10 houses, and some may start picking specific houses that they are interested in.  At first the houses will sell for market value, but as they all start selling, buyers will start to realize that they are being outbid and start to raise their offers.  When there is only one house left and there are six bidders the price will go up because there is no more supply.  Quanty demanded stayed the same the entire time (there are five more buyers than houses), but as supply decreases, the prices go up.
> 
> Your example overemphasizes my point.  The closed system with many buyers and one property is why it sold above market.


I did not provide an example. You did, and you proved my point. Initially you have 15 buyers & 10 houses. As time goes on, you have say, 10 buyers and 5 houses. Thus, the demand for the remaining houses has increased. Simple math.

It's really about markets and emotion and irrational responses. People do get caught up in the frenzy.


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## Sugarcubesea (Apr 8, 2021)

stmartinfan said:


> Clifffaith's post about cleaning a cooktop in advance of selling their home reminded me about a recent article in the Wall Street Journal (not posting link because it's unlikely It's accessible) that offered some advice about home sales in today's market,
> 
> The three take aways that struck me:
> 
> ...


We are in the downsize mode. 
We secured all of our contractors in mid-2019 to update our present home as our 3 kids had done a number on the home.  due to demand our jobs got pushed back to late 2019 / 2020 and then COVID hit.

Our contractors finished in late 2020 and we started making bids on small site homes and condos since June of 2020.  All of our offers have been over asking price and we have lost out on every last one.  We have placed over 20+ bids.  

We are now tired and discouraged


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## klpca (Apr 8, 2021)

Sugarcubesea said:


> We are in the downsize mode.
> We secured all of our contractors in mid-2019 to update our present home as our 3 kids had done a number on the home.  due to demand our jobs got pushed back to late 2019 / 2020 and then COVID hit.
> 
> Our contractors finished in late 2020 and we started making bids on small site homes and condos since June of 2020.  All of our offers have been over asking price and we have lost out on every last one.  We have placed over 20+ bids.
> ...


I don't blame you. Can you just sit tight for another year or two? According to my broker/friend our local market is supposed to level off. 

 We would like to downsize but I don't have the stomach for getting in a bidding war so we are staying put for now. Our nephew moved out a few months ago so most of the upstairs is empty and I keep the doors closed. We live in half of our house.


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## Sugarcubesea (Apr 8, 2021)

klpca said:


> I don't blame you. Can you just sit tight for another year or two? According to my broker/friend our local market is supposed to level off.
> 
> We would like to downsize but I don't have the stomach for getting in a bidding war so we are staying put for now. Our nephew moved out a few months ago so most of the upstairs is empty and I keep the doors closed. We live in half of our house.


That is what we are thinking we will do.


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## Talent312 (Apr 8, 2021)

Bucky said:


> I just paid to have our 20x28 deck torn down because it was much cheaper to have done than if I had bought the needed lumber to repair it and fixed it myself!



I tore out a ground level deck (16x24) and was going to replace it with Trex.
That is, until our contractor said a concrete slab would be half as much.
He said that concrete is one the few things still reasonably priced.
.
.


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## JanT (Apr 8, 2021)

When we sold our house in Texas last year we rented an apartment - initially for 3 months so we could wrap up a few things and also to see how Covid shook out.  Our plan after that was to do a fair amount of traveling if Covid was under control.  Well, we all know how that's worked out.  So, we extended our apartment lease for 6 months thinking that would give us some time to do some travel planning and to continue to see how Covid was going.  Then in February our apartment was flooded during the big storm there when an upstairs apartment's pipe broke.  We headed to a hotel for awhile and decided with interest rates so low (and Covid still playing havoc with travel, maybe we should go ahead and buy another house....somewhere.  Because they didn't have another apartment for us they let us out of our lease and we headed out to see what we could find.

We checked out Florida and Arizona and quickly scratched them off the list for various reasons.  We headed to Henderson, NV (suburb of Vegas) and have looked and looked and looked - until I am ready to SCREAM!  It is crazy out here and builders/developers are playing all kinds of games - only releasing two or three lots at a time, allowing people to bid lot premiums up, outrageous lot premiums period (think $30K - $160K for pretty much standard lots).  Housing prices are escalating like crazy (new and resale homes) and they're trying to get $600K for a house that in normal times would be priced around $450K.  Calls to sales agents don't even get returned because they are so busy with sales they don't care if they lose one.  The one area we are really interested in is not releasing any more lots until mid-May and I can only imagine what prices will be like then.  On top of that the sales woman was so snotty and snooty it pissed us off.

So....we're heading to Arizona for 7 weeks where we'll be staying at Sheraton Desert Oasis on Getaway weeks I scored when they were on sale.  After that, we'll have to decide what we're doing.  But right now, we've put the brakes on buying a new house period.  We're thinking we're going to probably just get another apartment in Texas, go through our storage units again deciding on what we can get rid of, and just ride this crazy housing market out.  It's going to settle out at some point and we'll be ready then.  But, hopefully by then we'll be able to travel internationally which is what we wanted to do anyway.

Bottom line is things are just too crazy right now and we're not going to invest in a house that in a year will appraise for less than what we paid for it (most likely).


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## klpca (Apr 8, 2021)

JanT said:


> When we sold our house in Texas last year we rented an apartment - initially for 3 months so we could wrap up a few things and also to see how Covid shook out.  Our plan after that was to do a fair amount of traveling if Covid was under control.  Well, we all know how that's worked out.  So, we extended our apartment lease for 6 months thinking that would give us some time to do some travel planning and to continue to see how Covid was going.  Then in February our apartment was flooded during the big storm there when an upstairs apartment's pipe broke.  We headed to a hotel for awhile and decided with interest rates so low (and Covid still playing havoc with travel, maybe we should go ahead and buy another house....somewhere.  Because they didn't have another apartment for us they let us out of our lease and we headed out to see what we could find.
> 
> We checked out Florida and Arizona and quickly scratched them off the list for various reasons.  We headed to Henderson, NV (suburb of Vegas) and have looked and looked and looked - until I am ready to SCREAM!  It is crazy out here and builders/developers are playing all kinds of games - only releasing two or three lots at a time, allowing people to bid lot premiums up, outrageous lot premiums period (think $30K - $160K for pretty much standard lots).  Housing prices are escalating like crazy (new and resale homes) and they're trying to get $600K for a house that in normal times would be priced around $450K.  Calls to sales agents don't even get returned because they are so busy with sales they don't care if they lose one.  The one area we are really interested in is not releasing any more lots until mid-May and I can only imagine what prices will be like then.  On top of that the sales woman was so snotty and snooty it pissed us off.
> 
> ...


Our friends are moving to Texas and just sold their house. It is a fine house, but nothing special. No special view/landscaping/decor. A vanilla house. It was listed, sold within a few days, and just closed for 60k over asking. I can't even imagine. We would love to downsize but we can't move away - we have family to care for. So here we will sit. But goodness it is tempting. The only issue is finding another place to land and truly that is the issue.


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## VacationForever (Apr 9, 2021)

We just sold our condo and closed on a single family home in January.  If we had waited to sell now we could have gotten another $300k on the condo.   Our agent got a buyer 4 days after we told her to sell our home and without a listing.  The market had not moved up too much when we accepted the offer on our home in October.  When we started looking for a home in November we saw signs of supply shortage.  We made a full price offer on a home the day it hit the market.  They had 5 offers on the same day and the selling agent picked another offer with the same price.

At the beginning of December, our agent just learned of a couple who were thinking of selling their home, but without listing it.  She called us and we jumped on it and offered their full asking price.  It is a beautiful home and we knew going in that we would need to spend another $100k or more to fix the swimming pool and the DIY leaking master shower, and remodel of 2 bathrooms.

We are glad we now own the home.  For the past 3 months,  MLS lstings in the community go straight into pending sale after a day or two with much inflated price.  Our friend who lives down the street from us told us that she gets a ton of solicitation calls to sell her home.  One of the agents asked her to name a price and she said $1.2m to get the agent off her back. The agent said done as he had a ready buyer!  Before the run up, her house would have gone for about $650k.  The majority of the buyers are from California.  Definitely crazy.


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## klpca (Apr 9, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> We just sold our condo and closed on a single family home in January.  If we had waited to sell now we could have gotten another $300k on the condo.   Our agent got a buyer 4 days after we told her to sell our home and without a listing  The market had not moved up too much when we accepted the offer on our home in October.  When we started looking for a home in November we saw signs of supply shortage.  We made a full price offer on a home the day it hit the market.  They had 5 offers on the same day and the selling agent picked another offer with the same price.
> 
> At the beginning of December, our agent just learned of a couple who were thinking of selling their home, but without listing it.  She called us and we jumped on it and offered their full asking price.  It is a beautiful home and we knew going in that we would need to spend another $100k or more to fix the swimming pool and the DIY leaking master shower, and remodel of 2 bathrooms.
> 
> We are glad we now own the home.  For the past 3 months,  MLS lstings in the community go straight into pending sale after a day or two with much inflated price.  Our friend who lives down the street from us told us that she gets a ton of solicitation calls to sell her home.  One of the agents asked her to name a price and she said $1.2m to get the agent off her back. The agent said done as he had a ready buyer!  Before the run up, her house would have gone for about $650k.  The majority of the buyers are from California.  Definitely crazy.


Because our vanilla houses are selling for ridiculous prices. It is breathtaking really.


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## rapmarks (Apr 9, 2021)

My daughter bought a house in South Dakota  in 2014 for $450 and was forced to sell in 2016 for $400
that house is back on the market, the new people haven’t done a thing, not even planted a bush, and  it is $589.  She wants to move back to that area, and I was hoping to find one with a mother in law set up.  At that price for a smaller house , no way


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## am1 (Apr 9, 2021)

Just a matter of time for a crash.   Hopefully people see it coming and are preparing.


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## Sugarcubesea (Apr 9, 2021)

am1 said:


> Just a matter of time for a crash.   Hopefully people see it coming and are preparing.


How can you prepare for a housing crash?


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## Gypsy65 (Apr 9, 2021)

My wife is a manager for a real estate company and out of state buyers were putting in offers on several homes before ever setting foot in the State and getting them under contract
Then once in town they would pick the one they wanted and find a reason to cancel the rest

We also purchased a home for my wife’s dad about 10 years ago for $60,000 ( we did do some upgrades )
Realtor came and looked at it and feels around $300,000 would be a fast sale

The making $$$ on a sale only works though if you have a place to ride it out or change zip codes to a less demand area
otherwise the profits you made on your sale will be spent on the person selling you your next home for an increased sale price


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## mdurette (Apr 9, 2021)

Sugarcubesea said:


> How can you prepare for a housing crash?



I would say if you own a house and don’t want to be upside down, don’t go pulling cash out via refinancing or heloc. Especially smart if you think you may need to sell in a few years.

I find it strange mortgage lenders haven‘t started to tighten equity requirements yet.


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## Brett (Apr 9, 2021)

Sugarcubesea said:


> How can you prepare for a housing crash?



I guess by living in an inflated price house


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## joestein (Apr 11, 2021)

So, our house went on the Market on Thursday.    We had 54 parties come to the house through Sunday to tour the house.     

So far, we have 2 offers. 1 at asking and 1 that is 4% over.    We are hoping to get more offers later today or tomorrow.   Then we will decide on Tuesday.


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## Snazzylass (Apr 11, 2021)

mdurette said:


> I find it strange mortgage lenders haven‘t started to tighten equity requirements yet.



ehemmmm...can't speak for all lenders but the big ones shut down their HELOC departments a year ago along with significant reductions in programs available. The smart shops really got out in front of what is still expected to flush out. This will not be like 2008. Some lenders are approaching this completing differently.


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## VacationForever (Apr 11, 2021)

We have not taken a mortgage in the previous 2 homes which we owned.  With the home we just closed in January, we decided to take a mortgage to make use of the low interest rates.  The bank was very thorough and intrusive and we almost decided that it was not worth the angst and just pay for our home in full and not take up a loan.  What we are seeing in the run up in real estate prices feels very different from 2008.


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## Snazzylass (Apr 11, 2021)

JanT said:


> builders/developers are playing all kinds of games - only releasing two or three lots at a time,



uhmmmm...doubtful that anyone is playing games. On the other hand, the price of lumber has skyrocketed a 1000% over the last 6 mos or so, and then there is labor. Labor has been an issue since the previous collapse of the housing industry.

I would guess even if labor is not a problem, it makes sense to be careful about limiting the number of builds when the price of materials is uncertain. I've been around builders for 40 years. They are either rolling in the dough or bk. It's always been that kind of business. Worse, most builders have no idea where they stand on each house, ie if they are making a profit.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Apr 11, 2021)

Right now certain building supplies are not only hard to find, but at substantially higher prices to buy if you're lucky enough to find them.  This leads to delays in completion of projects.

With that said, Covid has brought out higher per square footage costs to build or remodel a home, and that is just one of many reasons that is currently causing housing prices to escalate.   Add this to the fact that city folks now want to move out to the 'burbs and you have a perfect scenario for a supply/demand caused issues.

Supply/demand issues are definitely evident in housing prices all over the country.  When will it end?  Who knows.  New history is being written......

Buckle up!


.


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## bizaro86 (Apr 12, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> We are the process of helping my father in law downsize. His detached house sold at asking price (which was 15% more than I thought he'd get when we started the process a month ago) in 1 day.
> 
> But the senior living condo he bought had been on the market for nearly a year. Others in the same building sold for much more than he paid. I think its very likely the original (very ugly) carpet was an issue for buyers, and the discount he got will more than cover replacing the flooring (with enough to buy a new sedan left over).
> 
> I think part of the issue is the people selling a seniors condo are either usually moving into LTC or its the family of a deceased resident. In either case not a group that wants to do a reno before they sell. But buyers are also less likely to want to do a reno. So the premium for units that were already updated was very high.



The sale of my father in laws house fell through, as the buyers couldn't get their financing lined up. So it went back on the market. Multiple offers this time, now 10k above asking.


----------



## mdurette (Apr 12, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> ehemmmm...can't speak for all lenders but the big ones shut down their HELOC departments a year ago along with significant reductions in programs available. The smart shops really got out in front of what is still expected to flush out. This will not be like 2008. Some lenders are approaching this completing differently.



True....I have seen HELOCs tighten up this past year.   But, I think some of it had to do with the insane amount of refinancing going on.   Needing to slow down the HELOC business in order to handle the refi business and move personal around.    The refi boom is starting the end.....will be interesting to see if these lenders open back up the HELOCs and at what loan to value.


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## JanT (Apr 12, 2021)

There is certainly truth to what you have said, however, developers *are* playing games.  KB announced that its housing gross *profit* margin excluding inventory-related charges increased to 21.1% in the first quarter, compared with 17.9% in the same quarter last year. Their stock is up 300% from its low during the pandemic.  Developers aren't hurting and they are sticking it to people.  Even our realtor friend admits it's what developers are doing.  What they're doing is in direct correlation with what you said is true of the business - they roll in the dough or go bankrupt.  They're raking it in now while they can and they're looking to score as much as they can.  And if builders have no idea where they stand on each house in terms of profit they're not very good business people in my mind.

Bottom line is there are several things driving housing prices right now but eventually there's going to be a correction and for most people buying at the top of their particular market it may not end well.  If people are comfortable with a 10-15% correction (my guess), then good on them.  We're not going to get into that game.



Snazzylass said:


> uhmmmm...doubtful that anyone is playing games. On the other hand, the price of lumber has skyrocketed a 1000% over the last 6 mos or so, and then there is labor. Labor has been an issue since the previous collapse of the housing industry.
> 
> I would guess even if labor is not a problem, it makes sense to be careful about limiting the number of builds when the price of materials is uncertain. I've been around builders for 40 years. They are either rolling in the dough or bk. It's always been that kind of business. Worse, most builders have no idea where they stand on each house, ie if they are making a profit.


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## DebBrown (Apr 12, 2021)

We're in the trying to downsize group.  Unfortunately, we really don't like smaller homes and we have dogs so condos aren't going to work.  For the last few months, I've been stripping wallpaper and repainting.  We're in the midst of a sump pump installation.  But maybe we should just get it listed. We have a lake house in Michigan that we can move to. We were planning a room addition there but the building costs have skyrocketed.

This is super stressful for me!


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## Gypsy65 (Apr 12, 2021)

DebBrown said:


> We're in the trying to downsize group.  Unfortunately, we really don't like smaller homes and we have dogs so condos aren't going to work.  For the last few months, I've been stripping wallpaper and repainting.  We're in the midst of a sump pump installation.  But maybe we should just get it listed. We have a lake house in Michigan that we can move to. We were planning a room addition there but the building costs have skyrocketed.
> 
> This is super stressful for me!



I would talk to a realtor
With the madness I’m sure you can get above market and not update a thing

We were in the construction trades and in a slow market you need the granite tops while you neighbors identical home was Formica to sell
Now?
Not so much as the demand is still ridiculous

You obviously want to make as much as you can
But you also don’t want to miss this opportunity 
If you can sell them ride it out you will buy low on the other side


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## Snazzylass (Apr 13, 2021)

JanT said:


> There is certainly truth to what you have said, however, developers *are* playing games.  KB announced that its housing gross *profit* margin excluding inventory-related charges increased to 21.1% in the first quarter, compared with 17.9% in the same quarter last year. Their stock is up 300% from its low during the pandemic.  Developers aren't hurting and they are sticking it to people.  Even our realtor friend admits it's what developers are doing.  What they're doing is in direct correlation with what you said is true of the business - they roll in the dough or go bankrupt.  They're raking it in now while they can and they're looking to score as much as they can.  And if builders have no idea where they stand on each house in terms of profit they're not very good business people in my mind.
> 
> Bottom line is there are several things driving housing prices right now but eventually there's going to be a correction and for most people buying at the top of their particular market it may not end well.  If people are comfortable with a 10-15% correction (my guess), then good on them.  We're not going to get into that game.


It's a feast or famine business. Got to make hay while the sun is shining.

The thing is, right now there are buyers lining up! If you don't want to be in the market right now, that's your choice. However, as long as buyers are lining up, expect the current conditions to continue. It's not a game. It's an opportunity. Things will change when demand dwindles.


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## Snazzylass (Apr 13, 2021)

mdurette said:


> True....I have seen HELOCs tighten up this past year.   But, I think some of it had to do with the insane amount of refinancing going on.   Needing to slow down the HELOC business in order to handle the refi business and move personal around.    The refi boom is starting the end.....will be interesting to see if these lenders open back up the HELOCs and at what loan to value.


HELOC's will return - when it makes sense. Maybe 2022 at the soonest? Right now, for most folks, they are better off doing a cash out refi. That will change when they have their 1st at a rock bottom rate which they would not want to disturb, but still want to tap into their equity.


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 13, 2021)

Home prices are climbing alright, but not for the reason you might think.










						Home prices are climbing alright, but not for the reason you might think
					

We've plenty of homes. Rents have barely moved for half a decade




					theconversation.com
				



.


Richard


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## joestein (Apr 13, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Home prices are climbing alright, but not for the reason you might think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your article is about home prices in Australia and is centered around the tax policy of Australia.    Really not applicable to this conversation.


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## joestein (Apr 13, 2021)

joestein said:


> So, our house went on the Market on Thursday.    We had 54 parties come to the house through Sunday to tour the house.
> 
> So far, we have 2 offers. 1 at asking and 1 that is 4% over.    We are hoping to get more offers later today or tomorrow.   Then we will decide on Tuesday.



An update... We ended Monday with 4 offers.  The one we accepted  - waived the appraisal and will limit the inspection to structural.   It was also 8% over asking.


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## bogey21 (Apr 13, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> HELOC's will return - when it makes sense. Maybe 2022 at the soonest? Right now, for most folks, they are better off doing a cash out refi. That will change when they have their 1st at a rock bottom rate which they would not want to disturb, but still want to tap into their equity.


Makes sense to me...

George


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## littlestar (Apr 13, 2021)

We are having national companies swoop in and outbid home buyers in our Midwest area.  The first thing they check is if your neighborhood allows rentals.  Then they bid $30,000 and $40,000 over list and afterwards they rent the houses out. I am worried about my neighborhood changing because of this trend.  Also worried about affordability for young families.


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## Snazzylass (Apr 14, 2021)

Gypsy65 said:


> My wife is a manager for a real estate company and out of state buyers were putting in offers on several homes before ever setting foot in the State and getting them under contract
> Then once in town they would pick the one they wanted and find a reason to cancel the rest


Where is the Earnest Monies? What agent would write a contract without a deposit and a real one? My dad used to tell me that local agents would write contracts with a $50 check from the buyer. No way! Sounds like the local agents in your area are doing something just as dumb.


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## Snazzylass (Apr 14, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> We have not taken a mortgage in the previous 2 homes which we owned.  With the home we just closed in January, we decided to take a mortgage to make use of the low interest rates.  The bank was very thorough and intrusive and we almost decided that it was not worth the angst and just pay for our home in full and not take up a loan.


Yup! Since 2010, documentation for retired and self-employed is extensive! In the past year, rates have never been lower. Also, in the history of mortgages, documentation has never been more intense...especially for the 2 above groups, and especially for Jumbo mortgages 

Still, it was likely your trouble! You likely locked up an amazingly low fixed rate in what will soon become a very inflationary environment. Good move!


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## Snazzylass (Apr 14, 2021)

littlestar said:


> We are having national companies swoop in and outbid home buyers in our Midwest area.  The first thing they check is if your neighborhood allows rentals.  Then they bid $30,000 and $40,000 over list and afterwards they rent the houses out. I am worried about my neighborhood changing because of this trend.  Also worried about affordability for young families.


Grrrr....I hate hearing this and I know it is true! Historically, only about 10% of single-family homes were investor-owned. Currently, it is 25% and this has been ruining the affordable end of the market for years. Worse, it does hurt the neighborhood! That's why lots of HOA's have limits on non-owner occupied and how many properties an investor can own in a community.

There are maybe 3 million homes with delinquent mortgages. It is expected that many of these will come on the market starting at the end of the year. That sounds like a good thing! Unless they are scooped up by more investors


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## VacationForever (Apr 14, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> Where is the Earnest Monies? What agent would write a contract without a deposit and a real one? My dad used to tell me that local agents would write contracts with a $50 check from the buyer. No way! Sounds like the local agents in your area are doing something just as dumb.


These days the agents use a link for the buyers to enter their bank account info for the earnest money.  Since buyers are given a specific period for due diligence, in our state it is 14 days, they can back out without giving a reason and get their money back.


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## joestein (Apr 14, 2021)

bogey21 said:


> Makes sense to me...
> 
> George


We currently have a HELOC.     We will be closing it with the sale of our home, but we will get a HELOC in the new home.   I discussed this with my bank and they said they will not be a problem.   We don't have any immediate needs for money, but use it as a overdraft account plus for emergency.


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## joestein (Apr 14, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> These days the agents use a link for the buyers to enter their bank account info for the earnest money.  Since buyers are given a specific period for due diligence, in our state it is 14 days, they can back out without giving a reason and get their money back.



I would NEVER provide my bank account information in this manor.


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## Gypsy65 (Apr 14, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> Where is the Earnest Monies? What agent would write a contract without a deposit and a real one? My dad used to tell me that local agents would write contracts with a $50 check from the buyer. No way! Sounds like the local agents in your area are doing something just as dumb.


They’re getting the money but they are also able to cancel for any reason either seen before or after inspection and get the deposit back
These are higher end homes ( some in to the millions ) so putting money down and paying the inspection fee is a small cost in the bigger picture of getting the house you want in the current market


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## Snazzylass (Apr 14, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> These days the agents use a link for the buyers to enter their bank account info for the earnest money.  Since buyers are given a specific period for due diligence, in our state it is 14 days, they can back out without giving a reason and get their money back.


Ugh! That is utterly pointless


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## Snazzylass (Apr 14, 2021)

Gypsy65 said:


> They’re getting the money but they are also able to cancel for any reason either seen before or after inspection and get the deposit back
> These are higher end homes ( some in to the millions ) so putting money down and paying the inspection fee is a small cost in the bigger picture of getting the house you want in the current market


That doesn't sound like Earnest Monies. Same with @VacationForever's post. Sounds like a prescreening method to make sure someone is qualified.


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## VacationForever (Apr 14, 2021)

joestein said:


> I would NEVER provide my bank account information in this manor.


This is standard practice in Nevada.  The link is created by the escrow lawyer.


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## joestein (Apr 14, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> This is standard practice in Nevada.  The link is created by the escrow lawyer.



still wouldn't do it.  Either they accept a check or a wire.


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## VacationForever (Apr 14, 2021)

joestein said:


> still wouldn't do it.  Either they accept a check or a wire.


They get your bank info when you wire or write a check anyway.  I bet you won't be buying a home here in Nevada.


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## Gypsy65 (Apr 15, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> That doesn't sound like Earnest Monies. Same with @VacationForever's post. Sounds like a prescreening method to make sure someone is qualified.



What do I know?
My wife manages a real estate company and I know this is a problem
I’m not sure it’s at their company as they deal with a different bracket of clients

I do know. Money is put down on more than one home which is legal and they cancel the ones they don’t want which is also legal


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## VacationForever (Apr 15, 2021)

Snazzylass said:


> That doesn't sound like Earnest Monies. Same with @VacationForever's post. Sounds like a prescreening method to make sure someone is qualified.


Pre-screening only establishes whether the person can afford the home.  Due diligence period allows the buyers to back out with no penalty.  Every state is different but as a seller, I hang on the edge of my seat counting down due diligence period and HOA review period, which is another 5 days after HOA is given 10 days to send the package to the buyers.  When both periods have passed, the buyers are obliged to complete the purchase.


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## joestein (Apr 15, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> They get your bank info when you wire or write a check anyway.  I bet you won't be buying a home here in Nevada.



Actually my in-laws would like to buy a retirement home near Las Vegas and we are pretty close, so I wouldn't write it off completely.  However, who knows what our plans will actually turn out to be 10-15 years when we both retire.


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## PamMo (Apr 15, 2021)

For the not so good news, if you’re trying to buy a home and keep losing out to other offers, you might be competing with foreign investors. An interesting read/podcast in the Wall Street Journal this week discussed how foreign investors have stepped into the single family home market big time. It’s weird to think your next door neighbors’ homes could be owned by a sovereign fund.

This is behind a pay wall, but you can hear the podcast for free.

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/that-suburban-home-buyer-could-be-a-foreign-government-11618306380





__





						Google Podcasts
					






					podcasts.google.com


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## VacationForever (Apr 15, 2021)

PamMo said:


> For the not so good news, if you’re trying to buy a home and keep losing out to other offers, you might be competing with foreign investors. An interesting read/podcast in the Wall Street Journal this week discussed how foreign investors have stepped into the single family home market big time. It’s weird to think your next door neighbors’ homes could be owned by a sovereign fund.
> 
> This is behind a pay wall, but you can hear the podcast for free.
> 
> ...


At least in our city, realtors told us that most buyers are from California, Oregon and Washington states and are people making the move into our state.  They have not seen evidence of foreign investors.


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## Gypsy65 (Apr 15, 2021)

I’m not saying the foreign investors thing isn’t happening but it seems that a scenario like that would take place when the market drops and foreclosures rise
Which is what I expect to happen in about a year 
So many people who have hung on with hope are not going to be able to recover

The World for the most part went on hold, at some point the banks are going to want to be paid


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## PamMo (Apr 16, 2021)

If you're interested in a broad perspective on real estate, there are some good articles in The Real Deal - therealdeal.com

There are several articles on who's investing billions of dollars in single family homes for rent. It's everyone from California State Teachers' Retirement System and Canada's Public Sector Pension Board, to Singapore's sovereign fund, Germany's Allianz, to Brazilian investment firm Leste, and beyond.

While foreign investors are not the main reason for high home prices, the competition for limited supply doesn't help families hoping to get a good deal in this market.

_While the shortage was exacerbated by pandemic-related moratoriums and investors turning starter homes into single-family rentals, the main problem stems from a lack of housing production over the past decade, according to the report. “This is what you get when you underbuild for 10 years,” said Sam Khater, Freddie Mac’s chief economists._​​_While demand for homes usually decreases during a recession, giving builders more time to build, the pandemic had the opposite effect. Some people fled the city, opting for more space where they could work remotely. The pandemic also led to supply chain delays that slowed down construction of new homes. Now, home builders would need to construct as many as 1.2 million single-family homes per year to meet long-term demand, a National Association of Home builders chief economist told the publication._​


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## joestein (Apr 16, 2021)

PamMo said:


> For the not so good news, if you’re trying to buy a home and keep losing out to other offers, you might be competing with foreign investors. An interesting read/podcast in the Wall Street Journal this week discussed how foreign investors have stepped into the single family home market big time. It’s weird to think your next door neighbors’ homes could be owned by a sovereign fund.
> 
> This is behind a pay wall, but you can hear the podcast for free.
> 
> ...



I am in the real estate fund biz.   Generally, we only purchase single family homes when they are next to or in between a investment we already own.   Often the reason is so that we can control (stop) any development next to our investments.    Very occasionally we want to build out an existing investment and we buy a SFH to expand.

However, we have yet to buy SFH as investments themselves.  I can only imagine the record keeping that must be done for all these entities.  When we buy an apartment building or a Multi-Family it is generally one legal entitiy.    Imagine 200 SFHs instead of one Multi-Family developement.    200 sets of RE taxes, utilities, monthly bills, etc.  200 seperate legal entities.  200 tax returns - depending on how set up.    How about an audit?  200 separate entities consolidated?     The scope of the work is insane.    No thank you!

Joe


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## joestein (Apr 16, 2021)

I do see a lot of foreign investment in RE.    However, I see it in large commercial or multi-family investments funds.     There is so much foreign money coming in that some domestically controlled partnerships can't accept any more foreign money.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jan 25, 2022)

I'm still trying to buy a place in FL, we wanted to downsize in MI, but after 38 failed bids and with only 5 years left till I retire, we have decided to stay where we are at.  In the last year I have bid on 43 properties in FL and all have gone so far over asking price that I can not stomach paying $75K to $100K over asking.  I really hope things start to slow down just a bit...


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## JanT (Jan 25, 2022)

Some of you will remember we sold our house in 2020. There were a couple of reasons we sold - one of them was we wanted to travel and the other was our neighborhood had a couple of lunatics in it.  That house was our dream house but the neighborhood was just volatile because of them.  We decided to get out. (And glad we did because it’s worse now).  We thought we’d travel and ultimately look for another house down the line. Well obviously traveling is much more difficult due to Covid so we’ve been searching for places we might want to live.

Thankfully, our house hunting saga has come to an end.  After traveling here, there, and everywhere, we decided to stay in this “little” town that we love here in Texas.  I can’t count the number of houses and developments we looked at in Nevada, Arizona, Florida, and Texas.  We’ve made several trips again and again, trying to find somewhere we felt was right.  Nothing ever felt like the right decision and/or nothing lined up the right way - until about 2 weeks ago.

We were at lunch, still running ideas through our heads, when I looked around and said, “I really love it here.”  My husband said, “Me, too.”  We both looked at each other and said, “Well duh!!”  We finished lunch, went over and looked at two houses under construction that we’d looked at several times that week, went home, and called the developer’s realtor and made an appointment for the next day.  We’d made up our minds to make an offer on their home and agreed that if it was sold before our appointment it just wasn’t meant to be.

We met with her the next day, talked about a reduced price since we didn’t come in with a realtor to which she said they wouldn’t do.  We went over a bunch of info on what was going on the house and I wrote down our offer price on a piece of paper, waited for her to take a breath and slid the paper over to her.  I told her it was our one and only offer and if they accepted it we’d sign the contract right then.  She didn’t think they would accept it so, we just said “Ok.”  She had to call the developer and she was surprised when they made a counteroffer that met us halfway.  So, we accepted that with the condition we could change the kitchen countertops and the ugly tile they’d chosen for the bathrooms.  LoL  The house will be done in May and I feel so much better just knowing we made the decision where we want to live.  I feel like a thousand pound weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

Our dream of traveling significantly is a little muted due to Covid and I’m ok with that.  I’ll be busy enough getting the new house together and we’ll work in the trips we want to take along with some general U.S. travel. 

The hunt is over, life is good, and I feel more relaxed than I have in two years.


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## Big Matt (Jan 25, 2022)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I'm still trying to buy a place in FL, we wanted to downsize in MI, but after 38 failed bids and with only 5 years left till I retire, we have decided to stay where we are at.  In the last year I have bid on 43 properties in FL and all have gone so far over asking price that I can not stomach paying $75K to $100K over asking.  I really hope things start to slow down just a bit...


The prices that houses sell at is the market value.  You need to change your expectations.  When there is low supply (like everywhere now) people will pay more than list, but it eventually raises the value of other homes in the area and will increase listing prices too.  Don't get left out if you really want a house.  Unless we have a housing bubble, prices are going to rise and then plateau.


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## rapmarks (Jan 25, 2022)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I'm still trying to buy a place in FL, we wanted to downsize in MI, but after 38 failed bids and with only 5 years left till I retire, we have decided to stay where we are at.  In the last year I have bid on 43 properties in FL and all have gone so far over asking price that I can not stomach paying $75K to $100K over asking.  I really hope things start to slow down just a bit...


Friend in my subdivision in Florida just put her 1200 square foot with one car garage up for sale. Had 100 lookers in a day and a half, got nine bids, and sold for 100 thousand over asking price


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## joestein (Jan 25, 2022)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I'm still trying to buy a place in FL, we wanted to downsize in MI, but after 38 failed bids and with only 5 years left till I retire, we have decided to stay where we are at.  In the last year I have bid on 43 properties in FL and all have gone so far over asking price that I can not stomach paying $75K to $100K over asking.  I really hope things start to slow down just a bit...



Keep looking.  Don't bid over what you think is the right price for you.   You have a home you are in now and you have no pressure.  In this market, you can turn around and sell your home immediately.


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## Patri (Jan 25, 2022)

rapmarks said:


> Friend in my subdivision in Florida just put her 1200 square foot with one car garage up for sale. Had 100 lookers in a day and a half, got nine bids, and sold for 100 thousand over asking price


Around here the frenzy is over. Houses are sitting much longer. They are still listed quite high though. It will be interesting to see what the spring brings.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jan 25, 2022)

If the stock market continues down (like in the recent week) then at some point it will likely cause a pause in increasing Real Estate prices.  Matter of fact, it may cause buyers to pause and sales prices may go down.

Real Estate prices may also stabilize or dip as mortgage rates increase.


.


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## JudyH (Jan 25, 2022)

My DH is taxed with settling his late cousin’s estate including selling her house north of Orlando. A 30 yr old 2 bed duplex house, never had any improvements except a new AC system. She was a major hoarder, the dog wasn’t house-broken, it had not been cleaned in years. We found a good realtor, a person to strip the carpeting and clean out the house, put it on the market for 3 days, had 25 offers, and we took the highest cash only offer, no inspection, as is condition,  $210,000. A flipper bought it and can fix it up himself.


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## dmharris (Jan 25, 2022)

For four decades I was in the field of Market Research and now I'm a full-time Realtor.  Combining my knowledge in both arenas and listening and observing actual buyers in the market place, I have come to the conclusion that the sellers market is going to stay strong for awhile.  In my market reserch work I dig deep into the why behind the consumer's behavior.  I've done the same in Real Estate.  

So why is this such a strong and potentially long sellers market?  One thing I've observed is the demographics of the marketplace have a deep effect on the sellers market.  Based on four years of working with buyers and sellers I can safely say that what we have is a collision of the two largest population pools in the marketplace.  The Baby Boomers, who many have not bought or sold in 30 years are now in the market for the similar property as the Millennials, who are now the largest demographic age-wise and have come of age where they are now buying real estate.  Both generations are often looking for the same property, i.e. homes in the Pittsburgh area between $200K to $400K.  

Also the low interest rate is a definite motivator for buying.  Until we get more inventory, either through new builds or established homes, it will continue to be a sellers market.  Covid did us no favors on many fronts.  Also, many buyers are moving out of the city and want to disperse from others, and working from home has created the need for a bigger home with a home office and the price of materials and slow supply has caused delays and price escalations.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jan 25, 2022)

JudyH said:


> My DH is taxed with settling his late cousin’s estate including selling her house north of Orlando. A 30 yr old 2 bed duplex house, never had any improvements except a new AC system. She was a major hoarder, the dog wasn’t house-broken, it had not been cleaned in years. We found a good realtor, a person to strip the carpeting and clean out the house, put it on the market for 3 days, had 25 offers, and we took the highest cash only offer, no inspection, as is condition,  $210,000. A flipper bought it and can fix it up himself.




A lot of homes like these are now considered "tear downs" and people buy them for just the building lot and will do a new build.  Not sure if that is the case here but it is happening all over the Country these days (especially in valuable, leafy neighborhoods).



.


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## joestein (Jan 26, 2022)

I also don't see housing prices going down anytime soon.   I think that the market was down and flat for many years and it has been catching up - though getting a little too hot recently.   Plus with interest at the current rate - the 80% mortgage on the house I sold for over 2X what I paid for it has a lower payment than what I had in 2001 at the prevalent rates.    Not to mention inflation, reduction in value of the USD and the huge increase in the market.

By me, the market is SUPER HOT.   As many of you know I sold my home and bought a new one this past spring.    I paid $865K for my new home - I did get a bit of a steal in this market.    Within 2 months of my closing - 2 houses in my development closed - for $950K and $970K.   Recently within the last 4 weeks - 2 more houses in my development closed - for $1,070,000 and $1,120,000.   During the slow winter months, no less. 

Based upon these sales - my house has appreciated approximately 35% in 8 months.  That is just obscene.  Not that it makes any difference to me - I am not selling for many years.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 26, 2022)

IMHO - a major factor in many areas is growth boundaries that have been imposed in many urban.  Population continues to grow, but the amount of land available fur urban and suburban development.  The natural result is increasing prices as increases in demand are not met with commensurate increases in supply.

The effect is particularly pronounced with land.  Our house is pushing toward $1.4 million.  3400 sf on two levels, 4 bedrooms, 3 bath, full family room, full rec room, and 2 bonus rooms that could easily be converted to bedrooms (we use them as offices). Built in 1972. The lot is a little over 1.4 acre, with partial view of Lake Washington. 

Virtually all of the value of the house is the real estate, not the house, Whomever buys our house is going to tear it down and build a new house.  The price they offer is based entirely on the land.  In fact, if we were to tear down the house ourselves and list the property, we would probably increase the value of the property. Go figure.


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## Snazzylass (Jan 26, 2022)

Patri said:


> Around here the frenzy is over. Houses are sitting much longer. They are still listed quite high though. It will be interesting to see what the spring brings.


Where are you? Where is "around here?"


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## Sugarcubesea (Jan 26, 2022)

joestein said:


> Keep looking.  Don't bid over what you think is the right price for you.   You have a home you are in now and you have no pressure.  In this market, you can turn around and sell your home immediately.



That is what we are doing, we are continuing to look and we will find something, and since I'm close to retirement, I'm going to find something that is the right price for me...Thanks so much for the encouragement.


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## Brett (Jan 26, 2022)

rapmarks said:


> Friend in my subdivision in Florida just put her 1200 square foot with one car garage up for sale. Had 100 lookers in a day and a half, got nine bids, and sold for 100 thousand over asking price




on Florida's west coast house prices are crazy high

Florida’s West Coast Cities Top WSJ/Realtor.com’s Housing Index

https://www.wsj.com/articles/florid...op-wsj-realtor-coms-housing-index-11643106606

Naples, Fla., was the top ranked market for the quarter, followed by North Port, Fla.; Kahului, Hawaii; San Luis Obispo, Calif.; and San Jose, Calif. Three other Florida markets—Cape Coral, Punta Gorda and Sebastian, a city on the state’s east coast—also made the top 20. U.S. home sales rose to a 15-year high in 2021 as homebuyer demand surged because of low mortgage-interest rates. As more employees opted to work remotely, they were willing to move farther from their jobs in search of a lower cost of living or different lifestyle. Florida has been a major beneficiary of this migration, and economists expect homebuying demand in the state t


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## Sugarcubesea (Jan 26, 2022)

Patri said:


> Around here the frenzy is over. Houses are sitting much longer. They are still listed quite high though. It will be interesting to see what the spring brings.



In my neighborhood in MI, the 3 homes that went on the market in the last 5 months have been on the market for 52 Avg. Days on Market (according to the report I just got for my neighborhood). Back in early 2021, the homes were going in one day and all over asking price...The average list price and average sold price are now the same. All of the homes have been priced at least $75K higher then what the previous house sold for in our neighborhood but they are sitting on the market longer...


$229 Avg. listing price per sq.ft.​|​$229 Avg. sold price per sq.ft.​


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## Sugarcubesea (Jan 26, 2022)

Brett said:


> on Florida's west coast house prices are crazy high
> 
> Florida’s West Coast Cities Top WSJ/Realtor.com’s Housing Index
> 
> ...



@Brett --- Naples, North Port, Bonita Springs and Punta Gorda, FL are all the areas we are trying to buy a condo at, we will keep making offers in FL and hope that one of them will stick...


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 26, 2022)

Patri said:


> Around here the frenzy is over. Houses are sitting much longer. They are still listed quite high though. It will be interesting to see what the spring brings.


Around hear (Puget Sound) the breathtaking situation continues.  Though it's not a frenzy; prices are being driven up by collision of increasing population, rapid growth of tech sector with lots of high-paying jobs, and urban growth boundaries that constrain the amount of land that can be developed.  On a more local scale, our city is becoming an escape for people who are fed up with City of Seattle politics and policies, but don't want to leave the area. 

I can't call it a frenzy because there are sound reasons why things are going the way that they are.


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## joestein (Jan 26, 2022)

Houses are still flying off the shelves around here.  I was chatting with the real estate agent we used this spring, and she said the market has not slowed down at all around here.     I also noticed a lot of postings on Facebook and nextdoor with stories that go something like - 'We sold our home and have been looking for a home for over a year.  We are living with my in-laws.  If anybody knows somebody who wants to sell their house, please let us know.  We are looking for a ........'.


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## DaveNV (Jan 26, 2022)

Here in this small desert community an hour north of Las Vegas, the market is insane.  New home construction is all over town, and there are many new-builds still happening in our Sun City development.  They aren't building anything on spec - it's all pre-sold homes, with lot prices absolutely through the roof.  There is no shortage of people who want to move to this little town.  (Yes, I know, it's all my fault for moving here first - I'm jokingly told that I'm responsible for starting this rush to build new homes here. The same thing happened in the town we moved from. Apparently I have great power, or at least a good eye of where to live. )  I have a real estate friend here who sold more than 50 houses last year. That's closing escrow on a sale at a rate of nearly one a week.  He's doing really, really well.

The amazing thing is the resale market in this development.  I've been watching homes and home prices here for a number of years.  The developer started with a dozen floor plans back about 2007, one of which is the benchmark I've watched most.  It's the floor plan we liked best, and the one we ended up buying in July 2020.  Resale prices for this plan historically have been between about $275K and $325K.  When we bought, the market was just ramping up, and we paid closer to $350K.  Yesterday a home of this floor plan came on the resale market.  It is the same age as our home, finished in much the same way as ours, and with similar landscaping.  It's located about two blocks from my house.  A good comparable to use.  It is listed for $495K.  That's an increase of $150K in about 18 months.  Resale homes here are mostly selling within a few days, at list price, or slightly over, and most are closing escrow at those prices.  They're listing homes at increasingly higher and higher prices.  And this is in a 55+ retirement development, with a very specific target demographic.  This place is much in demand, with many new-builds still under construction, and a local market that is hotter than hell in sales and resales.

Maybe I need to get my real estate agent's license?  

Dave


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## PigsDad (Jan 26, 2022)

Sugarcubesea said:


> @Brett --- Naples, North Port, Bonita Springs and Punta Gorda, FL are all the areas we are trying to buy a condo at, we will keep making offers in FL and hope that one of them will stick...


We have seen that area just explode in the past year.  We bought a home in Bonita Springs exactly one year ago: detached 4BR, 3BA, pool, in a planned development (not a 55+, but definitely geared toward that) for $525K.  It is very easy to get comparables for this house, since the developer only built a few different models in the development, and the same company developed at least three other subdivisions that are almost exactly the same, so we can easily track and compare when when a house that is the same floor model goes up for sale in the Naples area. 

Looking at recent sales at the time that we bought (one year ago), we paid about $50-75K more that what those houses were selling for about a year earlier.  Now it is just nuts.  All of the recent listings for our house model are now in the $775-850K range.  So in just a year, the value of our house has gone up ~$300K, or over *55%*.  We were very lucky we got in when we did!

Kurt


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## JudyH (Jan 26, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> We have seen that area just explode in the past year.  We bought a home in Bonita Springs exactly one year ago: detached 4BR, 3BA, pool, in a planned development (not a 55+, but definitely geared toward that) for $525K.  It is very easy to get comparables for this house, since the developer only built a few different models in the development, and the same company developed at least three other subdivisions that are almost exactly the same, so we can easily track and compare when when a house that is the same floor model goes up for sale in the Naples area.
> 
> Looking at recent sales at the time that we bought (one year ago), we paid about $50-75K more that what those houses were selling for about a year earlier.  Now it is just nuts.  All of the recent listings for our house model are now in the $775-850K range.  So in just a year, the value of our house has gone up ~$300K, or over *55%*.  We were very lucky we got in when we did!
> 
> Kurt


We were lucky too. Paid 230 for  2200 sq ft 4 bed 3 bath in a mixed age community in Venice. Now about 400+


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## rapmarks (Jan 26, 2022)

JudyH said:


> We were lucky too. Paid 230 for  2200 sq ft 4 bed 3 bath in a mixed age community in Venice. Now about 400+


Add 100000$.  That’s how much a home has gone up in a year. 1200 square foot home went for 375000, 1400 square feet got 400000


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## Krteczech (Jan 26, 2022)

Crazy!!!! Even is small mountain town where we live now prices increased dramatically. In exact one year since we purchased our two bedroom, 2.5 bathroom, 2070sqft house with big views, price increase about 120k or 22%.
Grateful that we walked by and noticed the sign the day it went on marker. Our “old”, totally remodeled house, just a half mile away also sold for $$$ we never expected, but surely appreciated.


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## VacationForever (Jan 26, 2022)

Home prices have gone up everywhere around us, but one community which stands out is where our friends moved into. They bought their home, closed in January 2021, for $1.35 M.  They can now sell their home for $2M easily. Homes in their community which are smaller, double storey and/or not updated are going for $2M and up.


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## joestein (Jan 27, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> Here in this small desert community an hour north of Las Vegas, the market is insane.  New home construction is all over town, and there are many new-builds still happening in our Sun City development.  They aren't building anything on spec - it's all pre-sold homes, with lot prices absolutely through the roof.  There is no shortage of people who want to move to this little town.  (Yes, I know, it's all my fault for moving here first - I'm jokingly told that I'm responsible for starting this rush to build new homes here. The same thing happened in the town we moved from. Apparently I have great power, or at least a good eye of where to live. )  I have a real estate friend here who sold more than 50 houses last year. That's closing escrow on a sale at a rate of nearly one a week.  He's doing really, really well.
> 
> The amazing thing is the resale market in this development.  I've been watching homes and home prices here for a number of years.  The developer started with a dozen floor plans back about 2007, one of which is the benchmark I've watched most.  It's the floor plan we liked best, and the one we ended up buying in July 2020.  Resale prices for this plan historically have been between about $275K and $325K.  When we bought, the market was just ramping up, and we paid closer to $350K.  Yesterday a home of this floor plan came on the resale market.  It is the same age as our home, finished in much the same way as ours, and with similar landscaping.  It's located about two blocks from my house.  A good comparable to use.  It is listed for $495K.  That's an increase of $150K in about 18 months.  Resale homes here are mostly selling within a few days, at list price, or slightly over, and most are closing escrow at those prices.  They're listing homes at increasingly higher and higher prices.  And this is in a 55+ retirement development, with a very specific target demographic.  This place is much in demand, with many new-builds still under construction, and a local market that is hotter than hell in sales and resales.
> 
> ...



The question is what will it close at?  If it gets listing that means the price of homes in your development has increased 43% in just 1.5 years.   If they get 10% under or over listing that means a 28% or 58% increase.  It is more likely that it will gov over than under these days.   Let us know when it closes.

Of course, unless you want to take money out with a refi, it doesn't really mean much for you.


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## DaveNV (Jan 27, 2022)

joestein said:


> The question is what will it close at?  If it gets listing that means the price of homes in your development has increased 43% in just 1.5 years.   If they get 10% under or over listing that means a 28% or 58% increase.  It is more likely that it will gov over than under these days.   Let us know when it closes.
> 
> Of course, unless you want to take money out with a refi, it doesn't really mean much for you.



There isn't much inventory here, so there is little room for a low-ball offer. These homes are moving very quickly.  

I agree the increase in value is really only useful if one wants to sell or pull equity.  There is no advantage to selling in this market unless someone wants to leave town.  There's a good chance they'd have nowhere to live until they happened to find another home.  For me, it's helpful to have the higher value because I'm working on a refi after our improvements are done.

There are presently about 2000 homes in my development, and only 7 houses are Active listings for resale. It's a steadily increasing price point, proving this is a viable market for potential buyers and sellers.

Dave


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## joestein (Jan 27, 2022)

DaveNV said:


> There isn't much inventory here, so there is little room for a low-ball offer. These homes are moving very quickly.
> 
> I agree the increase in value is really only useful if one wants to sell or pull equity.  There is no advantage to selling in this market unless someone wants to leave town.  There's a good chance they'd have nowhere to live until they happened to find another home.  For me, it's helpful to have the higher value because I'm working on a refi after our improvements are done.
> 
> ...


It works great if you are nearing retirement and you already own a retirement home.   If I was in that position and my home could go for 50% higher - maybe it is time to retire.


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## DaveNV (Jan 27, 2022)

joestein said:


> It works great if you are nearing retirement and you already own a retirement home.   If I was in that position and my home could go for 50% higher - maybe it is time to retire.



Given the value of your home, I certainly agree with you.  For me, it's about quality of life in retirement.  Living here, we have no regrets of leaving our previous home, (which we sold when the Covid lockdown was still happening.) The home we bought here is the model we wanted, with enough "good bones" to make the investment since worthwhile.  

Once our pool and backyard makeover is completed, we'll refi to pay us back for all the investments, and we'll enjoy having that semi-instant equity that has occurred.  The light at the end of the tunnel is in sight, and it doesn't appear that the light is an oncoming train. 

Dave


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## Sugarcubesea (Jan 27, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> We have seen that area just explode in the past year.  We bought a home in Bonita Springs exactly one year ago: detached 4BR, 3BA, pool, in a planned development (not a 55+, but definitely geared toward that) for $525K.  It is very easy to get comparables for this house, since the developer only built a few different models in the development, and the same company developed at least three other subdivisions that are almost exactly the same, so we can easily track and compare when when a house that is the same floor model goes up for sale in the Naples area.
> 
> Looking at recent sales at the time that we bought (one year ago), we paid about $50-75K more that what those houses were selling for about a year earlier.  Now it is just nuts.  All of the recent listings for our house model are now in the $775-850K range.  So in just a year, the value of our house has gone up ~$300K, or over *55%*.  We were very lucky we got in when we did!
> 
> Kurt



Kurt,  I'm so happy you were able to purchase a year ago, I'm kicking myself that we didn't do that in early 2021. We had to fly home mid trip due to a family emergency and then other family members had issues we had to deal with, so we did not buy the condo we were looking at and loved on that trip in late January 2021.  I'm determined one way or another I will land in FL


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