# Did we get ripped off? Give it to me straight. Grand Luxxe Residence Nuevo Vallarta



## 2stinkers (Nov 1, 2016)

Though seemingly totally on-board with our timeshare purchase 10 days ago, my husband has now completely unraveled.  I imagine there is no "going rate" for these places but here's what we got.  LMK if we got totally hosed.

Grand Luxxe Residence in Nuevo Vallarta
Master Villa plus adjacent Jr. Villa unit to make 2 bed 2.5 bath
Corner location
Time classification: Red
2 weeks/year for $2200/week
Also, got an additional 10 year contract for an additional week per year
2 - for-1 massage
50% off greens fees
Equity trade-in for real estate of $70K

All for the bargain price of $85,900. 

Gave them $21,745 down payment and had them take our Sol Melia timeshare off our hands for equity credit of $21,900 - about what we paid for it.

Should I start throwing up now?  I guess we only had 5 days to rescind and didn't.  I suppose I could just let them have the $21K and have my credit ruined for non-payment of the balance.  Might be worth it versus a divorce.  Not really kidding about that.


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## buzglyd (Nov 1, 2016)

Well you paid more than most.

Not much you can do now but enjoy your vacations.

That place is gorgeous. We loved it when we stayed there.


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## VacationForever (Nov 1, 2016)

If it comes to that, if your husband does not want to go through the rest of the commitment with the purchase of this timeshare, then walk away rather than risk a divorce.  The "honorable" thing would be make good on the financial commitment but sometimes "honorable" is not everything...

Truth hurts... but yes, you guys paid too much for this.


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

sptung said:


> The "honorable" thing would be make good on the financial commitment but sometimes "honorable" is not everything...



I have to disagree - the Mexican timeshares sales people are known for being the most corrupt in the business.   

First - go over your purchase documents with a fine tooth comb - and make a list of everything that is different from what you were told verbally.  You will be shocked by what you find.

Then, based on the discrepancies that you will find, IMMEDIATELY, dispute the credit card payment for $21,745, and close the account, so no further charges can be made to the card. 

Also - contact Profeco - the Mexican consumer protection agency.


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## VacationForever (Nov 1, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> I have to disagree - the Mexican timeshares sales people are known for being the most corrupt in the business.
> 
> First - go over your purchase documents with a fine tooth comb - and make a list of everything that is different from what you were told verbally.  You will be shocked by what you find.
> 
> ...



You are assuming there is discrepancy.  OP did not indicate discrepancies, just buyers' remorse.


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## happymum (Nov 1, 2016)

Denise has given you excellent advice. Take it.


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

sptung said:


> You are assuming there is discrepancy.  OP did not indicate discrepancies, just buyers' remorse.



If they sit down and go through their Docs - there will be discrepancies.


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## 2stinkers (Nov 1, 2016)

I'll contact Profeco but what's the worst the resort can do to me?


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

2stinkers said:


> I'll contact Profeco but what's the worst the resort can do to me?



They can keep your $21,745 deposit.  Disputing that should be your first priority!


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## mikenk (Nov 1, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> If they sit down and go through their Docs - there will be discrepancies.



Well maybe and maybe not. Yes they paid too much but all the things they listed will not have any discrepancies. They seem to understand what they bought.

Now if they would have listed as a feature the promise that Vidanta would guarantee a rental income that would pay for their maintenance fee, then yes, they will find that is not in the contract - but they did not list that as something they think they bought. 

That said, I do suggest that they read the contract to understand what all they bought; they might find some positive features of Vidanta ownership that they didn't understand. For example, a lot of grand Luxxe owners have in their contract that you only pay the MF if you use it which is a huge benefit. I would look for those types of benefits as well as any discrepancies.

The bottom line, even if you paid too much, IMHO you have a great quality resort that will return great vacations for you and your family. We go 2 or 3 times a year and enjoy it immensely. In five years, my guess is you will have forgotten how much you paid but remember how much you enjoy it.

Mike


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

There is no timeshare that is worth $85,900 - they should pull out all the stops to get out of this.

IMNSHO, it is a disservice to newbies to frame this as an OK deal - it's not.


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## Karen G (Nov 1, 2016)

2stinkers said:


> Gave them $21,745 down payment and had them take our Sol Melia timeshare off our hands for equity credit of $21,900 - about what we paid for it.
> .





DeniseM said:


> If they sit down and go through their Docs - there will be discrepancies.



Most likely, based on what others have reported about similar deals, your Sol Melia timeshare will still be yours and you'll be stuck with the maintenance fees on it. Rarely are these trade-ins ever sold or transferred out of your name because they likely put you in contact with a third party who won't really sell your timeshare. Go through your contract and see what it says, if anything, about the selling of your old timeshare or transferring it out of your name. There probably is nothing about that transfer anywhere in your written contract.


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## Karen G (Nov 1, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> They can keep your $21,745 deposit.  Disputing that should be your first priority!



Contact your credit card company.  Someone reported that their credit card had a longer than 10-day rescission period for getting out of a contract made with a credit card payment.  They were able to dispute the charge and get out of the deal with the credit card company's help.


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

Karen G said:


> Contact your credit card company.  Someone reported that their credit card had a longer than 10-day rescission period for getting out of a contract made with a credit card payment.  They were able to dispute the charge and get out of the deal with the credit card company's help.



Agreed - Clarification:  You are not "rescinding" the timeshare purchase - it is too late for that.  

You are *disputing the credit card payment* because the verbal promises do not agree with the purchase documents.


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## Karen G (Nov 1, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Agreed - Clarification:  You are not "rescinding" the timeshare purchase - it is too late for that.
> 
> You are *disputing the credit card payment* because the verbal promises do not agree with the purchase documents.


As I recall there was some time period involved with the credit card purchase. They may have called it a "cancellation" clause or something like that.


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

Karen G said:


> As I recall there was some time period involved with the credit card purchase. They may have called it a "cancellation" clause or something like that.



With all credit cards, there is a period when you can dispute any kind of payment.  But this applies to all purchases - not just timeshares.  Generally, it's 60 days after the charge appears on your statement.


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## mikenk (Nov 1, 2016)

You are *disputing the credit card payment* because the verbal promises do not agree with the purchase documents.[/QUOTE]

You are assuming that the verbal promises do not agree with the purchase documents. I am quite certain that the all of the features in the original post will be in the contract. You might be right that there are other discrepancies, but all I am saying you are suggesting to get Profeco involved when you really don't know the specifics of what was promised and what is in the contract.

Mike


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

> You are assuming that the verbal promises do not agree with the purchase documents.



I am absolutely assuming this, because the Mexican timeshare sales people are notorious for promising one thing, and putting something else in the contract.

That is why I wrote:


> *First* - go over your purchase documents with a fine tooth comb - and make a list of everything that is different from what you were told verbally. You will be shocked by what you find.



*Karen has already pointed out the most obvious flaw which IS listed in the first post.  They turned in another timeshare as part of their down payment, but we know from previous reports that this timeshare will never be transferred out of their name.  So now they have 2 timeshares and double MF.


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## mikenk (Nov 1, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> There is no timeshare that is worth $85,900 - they should pull out all the stops to get out of this.
> 
> IMNSHO, it is a disservice to newbies to frame this as an OK deal - it's not.



This is probably worth some discussion. I assume the price is actually $64,000 assuming they actually get you out of the contract with the other timeshare. Regardless what else you do, you need to make sure you get out of the other MF unless you actually want both.

So what is a particular timeshare actually worth? There is actually a couple of ways to look at it. Certainly, the obvious is if you can buy a specific TS on ebay for basically zilch - than that is what it is worth - no more; no less. To be Honest, I'm not sure the price of the villa on resale or whether they can even be found. If they are available, then that is what they are worth. Does anyone know this?

Assuming they are not available except through the developer, then the price is what someone is willing to pay for that quality of a timeshare. We have several friends who have traditional timeshares; we take them to the Luxxe; they take us to theirs. Frankly, I would rather stay at home than spend the week at theirs; so to me owning their timeshares are worth absolutely nothing to us. They always apologize for taking us to their exchanges compared to what they get at ours.

A couple of weeks ago during a trip to Houston, we took my nephew and wife out to dinner for his birthday. We took them to a great steak place in Houston; the price was outrageous but worth it for us - and they will remember it for years. What does that have to with our villa? Everything, actually. We always take family and friends and they always get one of the best if not the best vacation of their lives - same for us. The resort is top notch, the golf courses are top notch, and the service is top notch. The experience with our family and friends is priceless to us as that is why we own.

With all that said, I think 2stinkers (cool name) could have gotten a better price although I have seen people pay more than that. The key is what to do next; the conventional wisdom on this forum is get out of it at all cost and go buy something cheap on ebay. 

My suggestion is to make an evaluation of what you really want from the timeshare; if you want out - then follow all of the advice to get out. If you really want the villa, then I would raise your issues with Member Services and negotiate to get what you want. They will negotiate and have a lot of amenities to work with. As I said earlier, many of us have the no MF unless we use; you actually might have it - worth checking. I would certainly raise hell with them if they did not transfer the timeshare - unless of course you want it also.

Anyway, I thought I would throw a different perspective out for consideration.

Mike


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 1, 2016)

*TuG members have posted to the contrary*



DeniseM said:


> I am absolutely assuming this, because the Mexican timeshare sales people are notorious for promising one thing, and putting something else in the contract.
> 
> That is why I wrote:
> 
> ...



There is more than one Vidanta owner who has posted that their trade in 
is no longer owned by them .

I will add

*****
See  my post (# 24 )


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## Karen G (Nov 1, 2016)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> There is more than one Vidanta owner who has posted that their trade in
> is no longer owned by them .
> 
> I will add


I would be interested to know the details if anyone cares to elaborate because we usually hear from people who ended up still owning the timeshare they thought was being transferred out of their name.


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## mikenk (Nov 1, 2016)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> There is more than one Vidanta owner who has posted that their trade in
> is no longer owned by them .
> 
> I will add



Thanks; I had thought I had remembered that also. IMO, making assumptions and recommendations without really understanding is not fair to the 2stinkers. They need to pause, read, understand, evaluate options and then act. To me, acting before truly understanding has never worked out well.

Mike


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## mikenk (Nov 1, 2016)

Karen G said:


> I would be interested to know the details if anyone cares to elaborate because we usually hear from people who ended up still owning the timeshare they thought was being transferred out of their name.



While I don't have any experience on this  personally, one thing that is true for Vidanta contracts is they vary tremendously - I would believe that there are cases of both situations. All I am trying to point out is jumping to conclusions and recommending action without knowing the specifics makes little sense to me. 

Mike


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 1, 2016)

*Vidanta trade in details*

here are 2 threads:

Purchased Grand Luxxe yesterday , question - should I keep or rescind
started Nov 15 2015 started by TUG member Seema .

The OP bought with trade in and kept .
( and received good TUG advice to help make it a good buy - for them )

************

Post #8  March 2 2016 
Need advice at Grand Mayan , Nuevo Vallarta .
The Tug Member- DrGuy- discusses how his traded in  TS resorts were sold .

**********

I also had a PM conversation with a TUG member who exchanged into Grand Luxxe and was given a trade in offer( and did not - that visit )  to get rid of
Marriott's with total MF's over $6000 yr. The no go / no pay Vidanta addendum on a RTU - TS  can be a tempting concept, and useful exit strategy when you get too old to travel .

Most Vidanta contracts can be transferred with all the good benefits / addendum to family ( children , grandchildren ) without a resale transfer cost .

If you are Vidanta and you get a high value Grand Luxxe sale why risk having  the bad PR (at the swimming pool next year) ?  -  in a world full of $1 ebay disposals 

While the " deal " may not be that much better than a no trade in "deal" - getting rid of high value and high MF resorts can appeal to some , and not everyone 
wants to " do it themselves " .


There are others posts
 and yes -  it can depend on the " value " of the trade in . 



There is also at least one TUG member who liquidates trade in TS in the bargains sub -forum . I believe I read that the TS's come from Mexican resort(s) - so (if my memory is correct) -
whoever/ wherever those trade in's come from - someone no longer owns what they no longer wanted . 


< full disclosure - in 2006 we traded in a Canadian based TS to Grupo Mayan- AND STILL OWN IT - because it had limited resale ability through Holiday in Seattle Washington .> Today- I am happy we still own it .

FYI - We are quite happy at Vidanta's Mayan Palace and Sea Garden brands . Daily maid service and full towel service , great staff 
( and yes I tip  because the staff work hard so that we have a wonderful vacation ) my MF is $ 700 ( approx. ) 

Vidanta has great quality resorts at all their brand levels and Grand Luxxe is their most expensive and most luxurious brand .
AND the resort are not All Inclusive ( AI ) .  I suspect the Sol Melia (trade in) may be AI .

I too feel that the OP - 2 stinkers spend time reading TUG , discuss together  , and contact Vidanta Member Services and negotiate .

$ 21,745 is a lot to walk away from ,( but not worth a divorce )
 AND there are also TUG posts were the credit card company decided  a signed contract may mean that charges are NOT reversed .

.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 1, 2016)

*If you want to see - RIPPED OFF - read the Valarta Gardens  thread*

Thread : In the Mexican Timesharing Forum 

Beware of Vallarta Gardens - started Jan 17 2014 
.


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## 2stinkers (Nov 1, 2016)

How does one know if one paid too much?  Do people post anywhere what they purchased?

If timeshares are such a bad deal, then why does anyone buy them?  It seemed like a good deal when we did the math.  Yeah, it's $85K and then $2200 to stay in a fab place every time you go. But to rent a place like this (when we looked online) was really expensive. (Though I know now we were looking in the wrong place!)


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 1, 2016)

*You paid retail - from the developer*



2stinkers said:


> How does one know if one paid too much?  Do people post anywhere what they purchased?
> 
> If timeshares are such a bad deal, then why does anyone buy them?  It seemed like a good deal when we did the math.  Yeah, it's $85K and then $2200 to stay in a fab place every time you go. But to rent a place like this (when we looked online) was really expensive. (Though I know now we were looking in the wrong place!)


 
*****
TUG member Mikenk - who posted in this thread is very knowledgeable on Grand Luxxe details and is an owner . 

85 K won't buy you much of a condo in Nuevo .- and there are condo fees etc

Grand Luxxe rarely resells since Vidanta has a 10 x MF transfer fee .They do not wish to compete with themselves on ebay  That is also  why the MF on use only is important .
The extra benefits like massages , golf discounts etc - do not transfer if sold . So most Grand Luxxe owners bought from Vidanta .
and either did a trade in of existing Vidanta contracts( upgraded to GL )  or a outside resort as you did .

Please reread  posts and go read  the threads I listed .

Vidanta has a very persuasive sales organization . 
Member Services is separate - since they administer already signed  contracts .

the resorts are all top quality - as you saw .

.


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## mikenk (Nov 2, 2016)

2stinkers said:


> How does one know if one paid too much?  Do people post anywhere what they purchased?
> 
> If timeshares are such a bad deal, then why does anyone buy them?  It seemed like a good deal when we did the math.  Yeah, it's $85K and then $2200 to stay in a fab place every time you go. But to rent a place like this (when we looked online) was really expensive. (Though I know now we were looking in the wrong place!)



The underlying problem is the timeshare market totally tanked over the last decade or so. There were too many; the relentless MF's were making it seem as an obligation, and the timeshares were slowly deteriorating due to lack of renovation capital. ebay (and similar) provided a way for people to dump them for basically nothing in return. Of course, that opened the way for bargains on decent timeshares for using & trading; TUG is a great site for exploiting this. I bought my original Grand Mayan contract off of a TUG member.

Vidanta has a different business model based around aggressive sales and offering a superb continually evolving product. They have also allowed owners to customize their contracts (at a price) for optimizing vacations. We have upgraded three times and have a contract we feel is optimized for our family and the future - our total cost is well under what you paid but we were upgrading pre-construction. 

Two questions: did you actually pay 85K or 65 based on your other timeshare. Vidanta doesn't want your other timeshare, but often will discount the price based on what you had paid.

Have you checked your contract as to whether you only pay the MF if you use?

I agree with the way you are looking at the cost analysis as a prepaid vacation. What does it realistically cost you to take vacations the way you want with or without the timeshare and when will the benefits out weigh the cost. Of course, this is easier with the no pay unless you use as it takes the relentless obligation out of the equation.

In my case, it was an easy justification as we use so frequently. We never trade as we can never get equal value - we just use. We go back in two weeks with two couples that we have never taken. That is what it is all about for us.

T-dot gave a lot of good advice; there is a lot of great info on Vidanta on TUG threads - both the good and the bad; Pittle's posts are a great source of info.

Mike


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 2, 2016)

*Just re read your original post - " Equity trade in for real estate  of 70 K "*

Dear 2Stinkers,
I just re read you original post and you mention :
Equity trade in for real estate 70 K 

Does this mean that if you later buy a condo from - Grupo Vidanta Real Estate-
you essentially have a $ 70,000 down payment already made ?

This could be a very significant addendum .

Mayan Island Siebel  Nuevo Vallarta are full ownership condos 
as is  Mayan Lakes and probable future development in the Cabo East Cape .

.


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## John Cummings (Nov 2, 2016)

mikenk said:


> So what is a particular timeshare actually worth? There is actually a couple of ways to look at it. Certainly, the obvious is if you can buy a specific TS on ebay for basically zilch - than that is what it is worth - no more; no less. To be Honest, I'm not sure the price of the villa on resale or whether they can even be found. If they are available, then that is what they are worth. Does anyone know this?
> 
> Assuming they are not available except through the developer, then the price is what someone is willing to pay for that quality of a timeshare. We have several friends who have traditional timeshares; we take them to the Luxxe; they take us to theirs. Frankly, I would rather stay at home than spend the week at theirs; so to me owning their timeshares are worth absolutely nothing to us. They always apologize for taking us to their exchanges compared to what they get at ours.
> 
> ...



I agree 100%. We have spent many weeks at the Grand Mayans in both Nuevo Vallarta and Riviera Maya. The Vidanta resorts are awesome. We aren't owners as we have always been able to exchange into them through SFX during prime time.

The point is that the Vidanta resorts are definitely high class. We have stayed in HGVC, Wyndham, Marriott, etc. and they don't come close to the Vidanta resorts for elegance, amenities, and service.

Like anything else, they are worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. I would rather stay in a 4* Hotel than some TS condo like most are in the US. 

There are folks that spend $10,000 /night for a hotel suite which is worth it to them.


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## pittle (Nov 2, 2016)

You say that you have 2 weeks.  Do you have one week that is called Registered and the other called Residence?  That gives me more of an idea as to what you have.  Yes, you paid full price, but most of us have at some time.    They start really high and negotiate down trying to make you feel like you got a great deal.  They do have a lowest point they can sell a unit for, but only the sales managers have that information.  You just have to feel OK with your purchase.  It is an awesome resort. 

We bought our first Mayan Palace unit in 1999 and loved Mayan World (what I call Vidanta) so much that a few years ago, we owned a total of 4 MP weeks & 2 GM weeks - each also had a Vacation Fair week that was like a bonus week you could use if you paid the MF for any time except Christmas/New Years, Easter, and February - mid-April.  We have gone to a Mayan World resort pretty much every year since 1999 and have used some weeks to exchange into other resorts.   We have loved every one of the Vidanta Resorts and do not hesitate to invite family or friends to go there because the experience is awesome.  Our family & friends have enjoyed going with us and often offer to pay the MF for a unit of their own. 

We traded in all 6 weeks for an upgrade to 2 Grand Luxxe 2-bedroom units that also came with extra weeks that we can use for additional weeks. We wanted fewer weeks and the cost to upgrade was reasonable once we factored in the cost for the 5 year renovation fees that we were obligated to pay for those 6 weeks.  Now we have a nicer place and lots more benefits than we had before.


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## MuranoJo (Nov 3, 2016)

Off topic so I removed it.


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## saabman (Nov 3, 2016)

2stinkers said:


> I'll contact Profeco but what's the worst the resort can do to me?



Profeco has no enforcement powers. File if you want but know it will NOT be the way for you to get your money back or contract cancelled.

The comments that you should look for discrepancies between what they told you and what's in the contract is a good exercise in futility. It's the contract that matters not what promises they told you outside of the contract you signed. And don't forget, they have attorneys and with very deep pockets.

re: Visa timeshare cancellation period link. See page seven. Know that you still must submit a cancellation letter to the resort.
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/downl...-management-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf


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## Karen G (Nov 3, 2016)

saabman said:


> re: Visa timeshare cancellation period link. See page seven. Know that you still must submit a cancellation letter to the resort.
> https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/downl...-management-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf



Thanks so much for posting this link.
Visa specifically addresses timeshares with this statement:  *Timeshare
You must provide a full credit when a transaction receipt has been processed and the cardholder has cancelled the transaction within 14 calendar days of the transaction date.
*
I hope the OP sees this as she may still be within the 14-day period if she acts today!


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## pianoetudes (Nov 4, 2016)

I bought Vidanta Grand Bliss timeshare last year and I am happy with it.

The good thing about Vidanta is no yearly maintenance fee like Wyndham. You pay only the week(s) you want to stay.

You know how beautiful the place is. I have 2-week vacation in Grand Bliss Nuevo Vallarta in January 2017 for my father's 80th birthday. 

I think the price $85K for Grand Luxxe Residence is reasonable. The Residence is higher class than standard Grand Luxxe and you have two bedroom villa.


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## tmm (Nov 5, 2016)

I can't add much to the question of how to cancel the purchase, but I can chime in as a Grand Luxxe owner and say that our family has loved it.

We originally bought a Grand Mayan unit (about 10 years ago) and upgraded to the Grand Luxxe (the Villa master suite; same as the original poster).  We have the same 2 "vacation fair" weeks, and 1 registered week for 10 years.  We use it every year; this past summer we booked 2 rooms for 1 week and brought along family (12 of us total), and the kids all had a blast.

We didn't pay as much as the $85k (we were about half that when accounting for the original Grand Mayan purchase and Luxxe upgrade), and though some have questioned the expense, we love it.  We look forward to Cancun and NV every summer, and it's not "vacation" unless we're sitting on the beach or pool-side.

The employees at the Mayan (Grand Luxxe especially) are always extremely friendly and helpful and make our vacations there perfect.

If you do get-out of your purchase, I hope that's what you want.  If you stay with the Luxxe, focus on the "forced" vacations, the beautiful locations, the warm people, the yummy food, and the sheer bliss of no stress (leave those laptops at home!).  Soon you'll wonder how you ever lived without Mexico!


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## lawduck (Nov 5, 2016)

2stinkers said:


> How does one know if one paid too much?  Do people post anywhere what they purchased?
> 
> If timeshares are such a bad deal, then why does anyone buy them?  It seemed like a good deal when we did the math.  Yeah, it's $85K and then $2200 to stay in a fab place every time you go. But to rent a place like this (when we looked online) was really expensive. (Though I know now we were looking in the wrong place!)



Buying retail is almost always a bad deal. While there is no resale market for Grand Luxxe because of the high transfer fee, it is an easy exchange for much less. We have Christmas week and the following week this year for less than $1000 a week (two bedroom villa) by exchanging using our Worldmark account. All we miss out on are the free rounds of golf.


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## vermut (Nov 5, 2016)

*Great timeshare if you use to go and to exchange*

I have been an owner now for over 12 years and have upgraded through the levels to now own a 3br spa tower and 2br condo grand luxxe.  We have gone on and off over the years and this year are going thanksgiving week and are able to put up my family and my wife's family using two units of the 2br grand luxxe which costs me just $3,000 in maintenance fees.  To me no matter what I have paid over the years just the use alone has been great.

However, we have also used the time share so many other ways between exchanges and renting the unit that there has been a clear savings over the years in what we have been able to do.  We have gone to resorts where the average rental rate was $700 a night for a 3br and we were able to use a 3br spa as an exchange.  

In addition we have used Vida dollars to get cruise discounts that really did bring down the price of the cruise below what the lowest rates were by over $1000.

My point is that in the end we know that we all pay different prices and while the price quoted up at the start of the thread may seem high to some, if they use it and enjoy it, then over time it all evens out.

I for one while originally a bit upset at what I had paid, have realized over the years that we have actually done just fine and one way or another have probably received in rent or in other savings at least 50% of what we paid out to begin with.

The fact that they continue to expand, grow and come up with creative ways to draw people to the resorts as well as keep the resorts in 5* shape means a lot to me as well.

Just my thoughts.


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## terminator (Nov 5, 2016)

At the Grand Bliss we pay usage fees, no MF. 

Regarding Visa refunds, in cases involving a notorious resort north of PV...refundable if the product and or service is not delivered as per contract. Verbal promises are irrelevant; otherwise, fraud (by misrepresentation for example) justifies a refund...and must be proven to their satisfaction.
Do research "fraud" definitions, but I have not heard of Vidanta ever going down this path.


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## Larry M (Nov 5, 2016)

*You did notice...*



DeniseM said:


> There is no timeshare that is worth $85,900 - they should pull out all the stops to get out of this.
> 
> IMNSHO, it is a disservice to newbies to frame this as an OK deal - it's not.



Denise, You did notice this was for two weeks, right?

Larry


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## drguy (Nov 5, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> *Karen has already pointed out the most obvious flaw which IS listed in the first post.  They turned in another timeshare as part of their down payment, but we know from previous reports that this timeshare will never be transferred out of their name.  So now they have 2 timeshares and double MF.



This is a false statement.  It contradicts my personal experience.  I expect honesty from a Moderator of the forum.


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## Karen G (Nov 5, 2016)

drguy said:


> This is a false statement.  It contradicts my personal experience.  I expect honesty from a Moderator of the forum.



I *honestly* have read more reports from people who said their timeshares were never transferred out of their name than reports from people who reported that their timeshares were successfully transferred. Perhaps those who were successful have not reported as much as those who were unsuccessful.  I have no reason to lie about that.


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## drguy (Nov 6, 2016)

Karen G said:


> I *honestly* have read more reports from people who said their timeshares were never transferred out of their name than reports from people who reported that their timeshares were successfully transferred. Perhaps those who were successful have not reported as much as those who were unsuccessful.  I have no reason to lie about that.


Your statement is true.  The other individual falsely stated that the timeshare will never be transferred.  I personally had 5+ transferred out of my name.  People rarely post their positive outcomes, but do post their unsuccessful outcomes.


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## Passepartout (Nov 6, 2016)

Don't you suppose that it's possible that Vidanta is more successful in marketing the 'brand name' TSs that people trade in than smaller, independent ones in Podunk somewhere? If Vidanta can't sell the traded-in unit, or even give it away to transfer it out of the original buyer's name, they're not going to sit on it forever and pay MFs on something they can't get rid of.

Jim


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## rpennisi (Nov 6, 2016)

drguy said:


> Your statement is true.  The other individual falsely stated that the timeshare will never be transferred.  I personally had 5+ transferred out of my name.  People rarely post their positive outcomes, but do post their unsuccessful outcomes.



What does "5+" mean?  Was it 6, 7...?
Were they as Jim mentions, "brand names"?
Did you have to pay a fee to a company to get rid of them?


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## mikenk (Nov 6, 2016)

lawduck said:


> Buying retail is almost always a bad deal. While there is no resale market for Grand Luxxe because of the high transfer fee, it is an easy exchange for much less. We have Christmas week and the following week this year for less than $1000 a week (two bedroom villa) by exchanging using our Worldmark account. All we miss out on are the free rounds of golf.



At this point in time, you seem to be correct. For people who don't wan't the amenities (like free or cheap golf), from many comments, it would appear that folks can find exchanges that are cheaper than what it costs owners even with the exchange costs and resort fees. From that perspective, it would seem hard to justify paying the Vidanta prices to own.

Digging a little deeper does raise some interesting questions.
1: I believe the fundamental reasons for reasonably cheap exchanges is that these exchanges are actually deposits by Vidanta to fill vacancies - not real exchanges. I believe these will dry up significanly over the next few years as the resorts develop out. 
2: For people wanting to rent their units, full ownership rentals that include the amenities like free golf should not be discounted as a reason for ownership. It can be quite lucrative if renting out is your goal.
3: Vermut also makes some good points. Vidanta ownership really contains a bunch of benefits that while singularly might not seem like much - but collectively as you use them, you start realizing some significant value.

In reality, this TUG forum is a very traditional timeshare forum seeking to buy cheap  timeshares on resale that trade well. Vidanta is not a traditional timeshare model. Ownership is a lot more complicated with all the options and possibilities. Personally, one thing I like about ownership is feeling  a part of all the growth. Every time we go, it is fun the first day just to walk around and marvel at the changes.

Mike


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## dioxide45 (Nov 7, 2016)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> There is more than one Vidanta owner who has posted that their trade in
> is no longer owned by them .
> 
> I will add
> ...





Karen G said:


> I *honestly* have read more reports from people who said their timeshares were never transferred out of their name than reports from people who reported that their timeshares were successfully transferred. Perhaps those who were successful have not reported as much as those who were unsuccessful.  I have no reason to lie about that.



Don't forget that purchaser a few weeks ago that was offered to be able to keep the week that they had done an equity trade in on. Basically, the plan all along was to be able to offer the week back to the owner and the price the buyer paid was what they could have gotten even without the equity trade in. There are very few weeks that have any equity in them and the developer is just using the "equity trade in" to make it look like a good deal when in reality is still isn't

I am aghast that anyone would suggest that a $85K timeshare purchase for something that can be bought resale for $0 is a good deal. Even if you had to pay the transfer costs, which are excessive, it would be way cheaper than $85K. Especially seemingly when everything I have read, Mexican properties don't tend to discriminate against resale buyers in the benevits they offer owners like some other timeshare systems.


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## mikenk (Nov 7, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> Don't forget that
> 
> I am aghast that anyone would suggest that a $85K timeshare purchase for something that can be bought resale for $0 is a good deal. Even if you had to pay the transfer costs, which are excessive, it would be way cheaper than $85K. Especially seemingly when everything I have read, Mexican properties don't tend to discriminate against resale buyers in the benevits they offer owners like some other timeshare systems.



Maybe you're right that you can buy a Grand Luxxe villa for $0 if one pays the transfer fees - but I have not seen it. Where is you data on that?

Realistically, the only logical way for a GL owner to sell or transfer ownership is a direct personal transfer as that is the only way the benefits transfer. Since almost all GL owners have no MF unless they use, what is the logic for selling cheap since it costs little to nothing to keep? Remember, when you buy, you are buying the ability to use (generally 3 weeks or more per year) and a bunch of other benefits including the no pay unless you go. Vidanta contracts are not your typical TS contract.

I do agree that 85k was high and could have been negotiated lower - even though I think the real cost was $65 K as I think the OP got the 25K from the other timeshare as basically a price cut - but we really don't know what other benefits were or weren't included. Without knowing that, it is really impossible to judge the contract worth.

Personally, I wouldn't except any "free" timeshare that had a forced yearly MF; that's why people give these things away at 0 cost.

Mike


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## Karen G (Nov 7, 2016)

mikenk said:


> Since almost all GL owners have no MF unless they use, what is the logic for selling cheap since it costs little to nothing to keep? Remember, when you buy, you are buying the ability to use (generally 3 weeks or more per year) and a bunch of other benefits including the no pay unless you go. Vidanta contracts are not your typical TS.


I have always wondered about the feature that if you don't use the timeshare you don't pay the maintenance fee. That sounds good at first, but it seems a bit illogical.  Why pay thousands of dollars to buy something because you will save so much more if don't use it? It seems the same as buying a fancy car but never driving it so you can save on gasoline. I guess at least with a car you could go out to the garage and sit in it and listen to the radio.

I know that as someone gets older or their life circumstances change and they don't want to travel any more, not having that maintenance fee to worry about is a good thing. But, not spending thousands of dollars for something you don't use sounds like a better thing.


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## rpennisi (Nov 7, 2016)

Karen G said:


> I have always wondered about the feature that if you don't use the timeshare you don't pay the maintenance fee. That sounds good at first, but it seems a bit illogical.  Why pay thousands of dollars to buy something because you will save so much more if don't use it? It seems the same as buying a fancy car but never driving it so you can save on gasoline. I guess at least with a car you could go out to the garage and sit in it and listen to the radio.
> 
> I know that as someone gets older or their life circumstances change and they don't want to travel any more, not having that maintenance fee to worry about is a good thing. But, not spending thousands of dollars for something you don't use sounds like a better thing.



I completely agree with your statement.  Paying anywhere from 65-85 thousand dollars or anything close for a GL timeshare and then feeling good about no required annual MF of 2 thousand seems like an awful waste of the initial purchase price.

It seems on this forum that many present GL owners used their MP, GM timeshares as "equity' to trade up to Grand Luxxe with negotiated perks.  If one bought those MP and GM units for close to $0 that may make sense, if the deals for GL were really that good as many have written.  Using MP and GM weeks to trade up also have the added benefit of not having to worry about Vidanta not liquidating those TS's as others have found that they still own them (non Vidanta).

Personal circumstances do change, but maybe because I still do a lot of traveling,  having TS's that require an annual MF and reno's periodically have not been a personal hinderance.  Especially true when my deposited TS's for 2017 get me 2 weeks in CSL in January (Playa Grande 1 bdrm and PB SB 2 bdrm), a FL week in February (2 bdrm Grand Villas), a 3 bedroom Grand Hilton Tuscany near DW in July with the whole family, a GL 1 bdrm in RM in August.  And there are still deposits leftover for more travel going forward.

I love Mayan World (credit to Phyllis) but variety is good.  Not paying annual MF's on a large GL purchase, not so good imo.

I think Phyllis and Mikenk get a lot out of their GL timeshares, but they are using what they bought.  

Ron


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## drguy (Nov 7, 2016)

rpennisi said:


> What does "5+" mean?  Was it 6, 7...?
> Were they as Jim mentions, "brand names"?
> Did you have to pay a fee to a company to get rid of them?



I believe that there were 7 or 8.  WorldMark (35000 credits), MGV (several accounts totaling 1220 credits) and a Pahio Bali Hai week.  Yes, a fee of $500 per contract was required and I learned that after I returned home.  Saved me around $8000 per year in mfs.
Instead of paying $500 to transfer the MGV account, it ended up being $3000 so Vida refunded the additional $2500 to my credit card.
For the actual details, you can look up the posting I made on TUG a few years ago.  It has been referenced by another poster in this thread.
MGV, now Diamond, Pahio, now Wyndham and WorldMark are well known brand names I believe.


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## drguy (Nov 7, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> Don't you suppose that it's possible that Vidanta is more successful in marketing the 'brand name' TSs that people trade in than smaller, independent ones in Podunk somewhere? If Vidanta can't sell the traded-in unit, or even give it away to transfer it out of the original buyer's name, they're not going to sit on it forever and pay MFs on something they can't get rid of.
> 
> Jim



Vida does not sell them themselves.  They are sold by a company named Global Transfers or something similar to that.  Vida uses a source similar to Kelley Blue book for valuing the timeshares is what I was told.  An independent TS would likely have lower value than a more well known brand.
I believe that I saw my MGV account for sale on eBay due to the large size and it sold for very little.


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## Karen G (Nov 7, 2016)

rpennisi said:


> I love Mayan World (credit to Phyllis) but variety is good.  Not paying annual MF's on a large GL purchase, not so good imo.
> 
> I think Phyllis and Mikenk get a lot out of their GL timeshares, but they are using what they bought.
> 
> Ron


I think it is great when people know exactly how to use what they bought and how each system works, and I know everyone appreciates them sharing their knowledge.  

Timeshares do seem to work out best when owners are able to use what they bought rather than buying something with the intention to always exchange it for something else. There are no guarantees for successful exchanges every time!


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## mikenk (Nov 7, 2016)

Karen G said:


> I have always wondered about the feature that if you don't use the timeshare you don't pay the maintenance fee. That sounds good at first, but it seems a bit illogical.  Why pay thousands of dollars to buy something because you will save so much more if don't use it? It seems the same as buying a fancy car but never driving it so you can save on gasoline. I guess at least with a car you could go out to the garage and sit in it and listen to the radio.
> 
> I know that as someone gets older or their life circumstances change and they don't want to travel any more, not having that maintenance fee to worry about is a good thing. But, not spending thousands of dollars for something you don't use sounds like a better thing.



The first sentence in your second paragraph is the total answer; it really doesn't matter at all how much you use it - not having the obligation to have to use it year after year changes the timeshare from a long term financial obligation to simply a prepaid vacation. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much you use it; we use it multi weeks per year and hopefully can continue to do so. We never exchange - just use, but if we decide one year to do an around the world cruise instead; no big deal, we will just skip a year and double up if we want the next year.

The reason people dump (or want to) timeshares is that ongoing MF obligation to them and their family - family situations will always change; having a yearly MF as an ongoing family obligation that you or your family will eventually dump makes no sense to me. 

We have three kids; we have already added them to the contract as they can use or not use as they wish in the future - with no real financial obligation; they love that we own. My bet is most kids will not want any part of their parents TS due to the relentless MF.

Hopefully, that makes sense.

Mike


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## VacationForever (Nov 7, 2016)

Curious about you don't pay MF until/unless you want to stay there.  What is there to prevent the resort from overselling ownership since the model only works when they have more owners than usage, and then when you want to book weeks, you are told that the desired weeks have been fully booked and the only weeks available are shoulder season or none at all?


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## Karen G (Nov 7, 2016)

mikenk said:


> The first sentence in your second paragraph is the total answer; it really doesn't matter at all how much you use it - not having the obligation to have to use it year after year changes the timeshare from a long term financial obligation to simply a prepaid vacation.


That would obviously be a great deal if one were able to buy a resale unit and not have the huge initial purchase price paid to the developer to begin with. Looking at the annual maintenance fee as a prepaid vacation is really more in line with actual vacation costs. $2000 for a week in a nice timeshare is a good deal, and maybe renting from an owner for about the cost of the maintenance fee is ideal. But if one paid $45,000 to buy the week and then paid the maintenance fee when using the unit, that certainly drives up the cost of that "prepaid" vacation. 

But, as always, different strokes for different folks.  It's great when anyone is happy with what they have.


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## mikenk (Nov 7, 2016)

sptung said:


> Curious about you don't pay MF until/unless you want to stay there.  What is there to prevent the resort from overselling ownership since the model only works when they have more owners than usage, and then when you want to book weeks, you are told that the desired weeks have been fully booked and the only weeks available are shoulder season or none at all?



RTU contracts ( versus deeded ownership) always have that problem regardless whether you have obligatory MF's or not. There is never any guarantee you will get a specific unit or specific time - always depends on availability.

Vidanta, with an always aggressive sales force selling and an always expanding resort system, really has a delicate balancing act of inventory availability to owners. As an owner, it is always a concern, but so far has not been a problem after 10 years of active use.


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## mikenk (Nov 7, 2016)

Karen G said:


> That would obviously be a great deal if one were able to buy a resale unit and not have the huge initial purchase price paid to the developer to begin with. Looking at the annual maintenance fee as a prepaid vacation is really more in line with actual vacation costs. $2000 for a week in a nice timeshare is a good deal, and maybe renting from an owner for about the cost of the maintenance fee is ideal. But if one paid $45,000 to buy the week and then paid the maintenance fee when using the unit, that certainly drives up the cost of that "prepaid" vacation.
> 
> But, as always, different strokes for different folks.  It's great when anyone is happy with what they have.



I actually did buy a Grand Mayan on resale and upgraded to Grand Bliss and Grand Luxxe through Vidanta (well less than 45K) in order to get more time, free golf, free massages, no MF unless you use, Senior Discount, and a few more things. My golf savings alone for me and guests average about 2K per week in real money; resort golf is expensive. 

Based on our multi week yearly usage, we have already paid off our upgrade investment. We go next week at half price on Sr discount; in two years free - just icing on the cake.

My point is all the Vidanta posters here have generally chosen the approach that works well for their case - but at least, they all have had the opportunity to customize the Vidanta ownership the way that works for them. For me, that is much better than an obligatory MF and a resort stay at often a deteriorating timeshare. 

But as you say, different folks for different folks.

Mike


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## VacationForever (Nov 7, 2016)

mikenk said:


> RTU contracts ( versus deeded ownership) always have that problem regardless whether you have obligatory MF's or not. There is never any guarantee you will get a specific unit or specific time - always depends on availability.
> 
> Vidanta, with an always aggressive sales force selling and an always expanding resort system, really has a delicate balancing act of inventory availability to owners. As an owner, it is always a concern, but so far has not been a problem after 10 years of active use.



There is a difference between RTU ownership for committed MF vs. Pay on use. If I buy at Westin Lagunamar, technically, the number of weeks that are available for booking during the ownership season should match ownership/committed MF.  

I am glad it has worked well for you.  I have not stayed at Grand Luxxe and now it makes me want to try it out!


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## mikenk (Nov 7, 2016)

sptung said:


> There is a difference between RTU ownership for committed MF vs. Pay on use. If I buy at Westin Lagunamar, technically, the number of weeks that are available for booking during the ownership season should match ownership/committed MF.
> 
> I am glad it has worked well for you.  I have not stayed at Grand Luxxe and now it makes me want to try it out!



I assume it would be the same; in the contract, it shows clearly what I have the right to use - regardless what I actually use. TBH, Vidanta doesn't really care whether I actually use it or not as they will make it available to others - that they can then sell to. 

I really have no clue how Vidanta balances via law or just availability what they sell versus what owners need. Inventory availability has always been my largest concern as they are a selling machine. It is interesting that the owner only builds when he actually has the cash - never borrows. I think this is how it all balances - sales slow; construction slows, and vice versa.

But so far so good - after 10 years. The new amusement park and associated hotels for that just complicates things. It is actually quite fascinating to observe.

Mike


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 7, 2016)

sptung said:


> Curious about you don't pay MF until/unless you want to stay there.  What is there to prevent the resort from overselling ownership since the model only works when they have more owners than usage, and then when you want to book weeks, you are told that the desired weeks have been fully booked and the only weeks available are shoulder season or none at all?



Vidanta builds ( and staffs ) for peak snowbird season . They build in pesos and receive MF in dollars . The properties are pretty well full from Christmas week until early April . 

There is always shoulder season availability and if they keep growing it will remain this way - IMO .

I believe they are working towards "filling " more summer weeks by increasing sales to the growing Mexican middle class . They have a separate sales force for the Mexican National market .
 Historically  the 4 Mexican Holliday weeks were sold to Mexican Nationals or as " Elite" week contracts and these weeks are not in most contracts .
( Christmas ,New Years and the (2) weeks on either side of Easter .) 

My contract has a 6 month ARP and carryover . ie I can book a February 2017 week by calling in August 1 , 2016 .( using my 2016 week )
< 2nd / bonus week reservation time line works slightly differently- 45 day ARP for Feb & March  >

If I was looking to book Feb 2017 now (Nov .2016 ) - Nuevo Vallarta , RM , PV & Cabo may be full in February - but Acapulco and Mazatlan  probably have availability ( .Puerto Penasco is probably available also - but has Phoenix temp weather) 

.


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## pittle (Nov 7, 2016)

mikenk said:


> We go next week at half price on Sr discount; in two years free - just icing on the cake.
> 
> My point is all the Vidanta posters here have generally chosen the approach that works well for their case - but at least, they all have had the opportunity to customize the Vidanta ownership the way that works for them. For me, that is much better than an obligatory MF and a resort stay at often a deteriorating timeshare.
> 
> ...



We are counting down to our Sr. Cert use too - 4 years!!!  

We purchased quite a few MP weeks on eBay and used some to upgrade to 2 Grand Mayan weeks, but kept others because of family & friends wanting to join us.  We did upgrade to Grand Luxxe and have two 2-bedroom weeks (not the Villa) plus lots of extra weeks that we can use if we need them and pay MF.  I think the grand total of all weeks we have available is 12 since that is what we had (counting VF weeks) before we upgraded.  We would never need that many units in a year.  But, with everything we have paid for units and upgrades (not counting MF & Renovation Fees) it is not anywhere close to $85,000.

When you sell a GL (or any newer Mayan world contract), the transfer fee is 10x the current MF.  The special deals/bebefits and bonus weeks do not go with the contract either.  That is why you do not see them on the re-sale market.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 7, 2016)

*Equity trade-in for real estate of 70 K*



2stinkers said:


> Though seemingly totally on-board with our timeshare purchase 10 days ago, my husband has now completely unraveled.  I imagine there is no "going rate" for these places but here's what we got.  LMK if we got totally hosed.
> 
> Grand Luxxe Residence in Nuevo Vallarta
> Master Villa plus adjacent Jr. Villa unit to make 2 bed 2.5 bath
> ...



******
Equity trade in for real estate 70 K  - this could be the " value " in the contract .

Google Grupo Vidanta  Real Estate- and then go to the 5th listing after clicking on .

La Jolla de Los Cobos 

This sounds like a full ownership Condo development in the East Cape ( coming ) Vidanta project .
< listings 1-4  are existing / previously introduced full ownership Vidanta projects.>

If the "equity " in this contract allows the a purchaser a 70 K "deposit" against a condo purchase - and it is a true equity ( not TS smoke and mirrors ) then maybe the purchase price " makes sense ".

Does anyone else who owns Vidanta have this in their contract ?

Or is it a new twist / addendum that they are rolling out to help close sales on Grand Luxxe ?
 ( Sort of like when they introduced MF on use only in 2006 )

.


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## pittle (Nov 8, 2016)

Our contract has an Addendum page with a statement about Trade-in Privilege.  Trade-in value is 65% of the amount they say our contract is worth  - in writing on that page.  But - the fine print says that the trade-in allowance may not exceed 20% of the Mayan Island property purchased.  It is good for 10 years from the date of purchase.

Our original MP contract had this too.


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## shoegal (Nov 8, 2016)

*Signed in Mexico*

"...and have my credit ruined for non-payment of the balance"

Remember that you signed the contract in Mexico, thus your credit would be ruined in MEXICO. Unless you're planning to move down south I could live with this. 

Have you contacted your CC company yet? Or the resort? 





2stinkers said:


> Though seemingly totally on-board with our timeshare purchase 10 days ago, my husband has now completely unraveled.  I imagine there is no "going rate" for these places but here's what we got.  LMK if we got totally hosed.
> 
> Grand Luxxe Residence in Nuevo Vallarta
> Master Villa plus adjacent Jr. Villa unit to make 2 bed 2.5 bath
> ...


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## pittle (Nov 8, 2016)

*Try  Grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com*

Have you contacted Karen Rose with Grupo's Customer Service team for support: grupomayanblog@grupovidanta.com  Email them as they have helped many people with issues such as this.


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