# 2023 MF's Discussion Thread



## dioxide45 (Oct 13, 2022)

Has the Trust not reported maintenance fees on DC/Abound Club Points yet for 2023? I thought they usually come out much earlier than any weeks ever do.


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## kozykritter (Oct 13, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Has the Trust not reported maintenance fees on DC/Abound Club Points yet for 2023? I thought they usually come out much earlier than any weeks ever do.


Their meeting to approve the 2023 budget for the trust was Sept 8th but I have no idea how to find the outcome.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 13, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> Their meeting to approve the 2023 budget for the trust was Sept 8th but I have no idea how to find the outcome.


Thanks. I always thought they came out super early. I know Vistana sent out bills for the Flex trusts back in August or early Sept. Looking at 2021, it wasn't reported for DC points until early December. So I guess I was wrong on my thinking about how early they send out the MF bill on points.


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## kozykritter (Oct 14, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Thanks. I always thought they came out super early. I know Vistana sent out bills for the Flex trusts back in August or early Sept. Looking at 2021, it wasn't reported for DC points until early December. So I guess I was wrong on my thinking about how early they send out the MF bill on points.


They can take their time as far as I'm concerned   Proposed trust budget with fully funded reserves would result in 72 cents pp. Sample budget they included with reduced reserves was 68.3 cents pp. I hear they usually go for the reduced reserves. Not sure if there are minutes online anywhere to know the outcome of the meeting.


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## VacationForever (Oct 14, 2022)

In the other thread, it listed that club dues remain the same as current year.  I haven't seen those in my account yet.  I would assume that would be the last thing that would be released, i.e. after Abound "merger" is implemented.


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## Fasttr (Oct 14, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> In the other thread, it listed that club dues remain the same as current year.  I haven't seen those in my account yet.  I would assume that would be the last thing that would be released, i.e. after Abound "merger" is implemented.


I believe the proposed budget had the Dues going up $15 for 2023.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 14, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> In the other thread, it listed that club dues remain the same as current year.  I haven't seen those in my account yet.  I would assume that would be the last thing that would be released, i.e. after Abound "merger" is implemented.


That's just my poor edit/copy/paste of last year's MF's thread first post. It's blank in the current sticky thread now and will be updated when the first official notice of the approved fees is posted. 

I don't know why you'd expect them to delay releasing the 2023 Club Dues fee until the Vistana resorts are finally integrated, though, because for Marriott Abound members the change is simply a name change. Adding Vistana resorts is effectively no different for us than any of the new resort additions have been over the years.


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## VacationForever (Oct 14, 2022)

@SueDonJ, I just don't know if they are going to increase the club dues by more than in the past because of the combined system.  For those who had been paying both Vistana and MVC club dues, it will be significant savings regardless of the increase.  I looked at my proposed SVR maintenance fees, it is going up by 16%, gulped, and that is without the "fully funded" reserves.  I console myself that part of that increase will be covered by the eliminated Vistana club dues.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 14, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> @SueDonJ, I just don't know if they are going to increase the club dues by more than in the past because of the combined system.  For those who had been paying both Vistana and MVC club dues, it will be significant savings regardless of the increase.  I looked at my proposed SVR maintenance fees, it is going up by 16%, gulped, and that is without the "fully funded" reserves.  I console myself that part of that increase will be covered by the eliminated Vistana club dues.


None of us knows if or how much they'll increase until official notice comes out. Historically, the Club Dues fee increases every couple/few years and conforms to the amounts on the Trust Points proposed budgets. @Fasttr says up there that this year's shows a $15 increase so that's what I'm expecting will be approved and what I'll see on my Club Dues invoice. It'll be interesting for all of us to see how the billing fleshes out for you Vistana owners with Abound and your existing club dues (whatever they're called) melding.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 17, 2022)

The 2023 club fee is disclosed in the Abound Exchange Procedures posted in the Abound FAQ. I believe they are on the last page.


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## BigDawgTUG (Oct 17, 2022)

2023 Club Points (determined on a per point basis):

2023 Property Tax Fee:  $0.00592
2023 Operating Fee:     $0.678

Total:  $0.68392

Note:  Does not include Club Dues, which are based on ownership level achieved

Also posted in Sticky


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## VacationForever (Oct 18, 2022)

BigDawgTUG said:


> 2023 Club Points (determined on a per point basis):
> 
> 2023 Property Tax Fee:  $0.00592
> 2023 Operating Fee:     $0.678
> ...


I calculated 2023 dues against 2022 and it came to 8.911 percent increase.


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## BigDawgTUG (Oct 18, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> I calculated 2023 dues against 2022 and it came to 8.911 percent increase.


Yes, I was just looking up the historical and I agree with your math.  It's $0.68392 vs. $0.62796


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## igopogo (Oct 18, 2022)

Given the labor challenges in the service sector and inflation in general, that seems reasonable. I was bracing for something higher.


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## kozykritter (Oct 18, 2022)

BigDawgTUG said:


> 2023 Club Points (determined on a per point basis):
> 
> 2023 Property Tax Fee:  $0.00592
> 2023 Operating Fee:     $0.678
> ...


This matches their sample budget with reduced reserves so they must have passed that at their September meeting. Have you been billed for these MF's already?


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## dioxide45 (Oct 18, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> This matches their sample budget with reduced reserves so they must have passed that at their September meeting. Have you been billed for these MF's already?


If it is a final bill, it seems they are expecting reduced reserves to pass at all the resorts? We haven't even voted yet at Grande Vista or Harbour Lake.


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## TravelTime (Oct 18, 2022)

BigDawgTUG said:


> 2023 Club Points (determined on a per point basis):
> 
> 2023 Property Tax Fee:  $0.00592
> 2023 Operating Fee:     $0.678
> ...



Where did you get this information? Isn’t this the same as last year? Could this really be 2022’s MF?


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## kozykritter (Oct 18, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> Where did you get this information? Isn’t this the same as last year? Could this really be 2022’s MF?


This is about 6 cents higher than 2022's MF of $0.62796.


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## BigDawgTUG (Oct 18, 2022)

Sorry to be the bearer of "bad" news, but this is the amount that was billed to my account.  I suspect everyone with Club Points was billed at the same time?  Check your account.


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## mbstn6254 (Oct 18, 2022)

I just paid my MF.

4,000 points for $2,965.68

$.74142 per point.

Can someone who knows more than me about MVC dues explain the disparity between $.68392 and what I paid?

Thanks


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 18, 2022)

mbstn6254 said:


> I just paid my MF.
> 
> 4,000 points for $2,965.68
> 
> ...


Club dues.  Take off $230 from your number (Club dues), divide by 4000 (# of points), and the discrepancy is resolved.


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## Fasttr (Oct 18, 2022)

mbstn6254 said:


> I just paid my MF.
> 
> 4,000 points for $2,965.68
> 
> ...


Your Dues?


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## jmhpsu93 (Oct 18, 2022)

BigDawgTUG said:


> Sorry to be the bearer of "bad" news, but this is the amount that was billed to my account.  I suspect everyone with Club Points was billed at the same time?  Check your account.


The billing is there for me as well.


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## mbstn6254 (Oct 18, 2022)

My 2023 maintenance fees came out to a little more than $.74 per point. That includes the club dues, which, as afar as I am concerned is part of the maintenance fees because I do not have a choice to opt out. I am not even sure what the club dues are for. I own 4,000 points.


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## mbstn6254 (Oct 18, 2022)

Thank you all for your information.

When I added up all of the various fees including $230 for club dues the number tied out.

What do club dues pay for?


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## bazzap (Oct 18, 2022)

mbstn6254 said:


> Thank you all for your information.
> 
> When I added up all of the various fees including $230 for club dues the number tied out.
> 
> What do club dues pay for?


MVC’s FAQs give some examples of what they pay for
“Q. What are Club Dues?
A. “Club Dues” (sometimes referred to as Exchange Company Dues) refers to the consolidated annual fee payable by both Enrolled Owners and Points Owners for their membership (or enrollment) in the Marriott Vacation Club DestinationsTM Exchange Program. For Enrolled Owners, payment of Club Dues ensures your continued enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club DestinationsTM Exchange Program for the following year. This annual fee replaces many of the a la carte fees otherwise payable for various reservation and usage options such as locking off, membership with Interval International® and trading for Marriott Bonvoy® points.”


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## kozykritter (Oct 18, 2022)

I see a potential big mess coming with the Club dues billing, particularly for some dual owners (or maybe just me ). They billed trust owners for the dues before they have finished syncing up recognition levels based upon combined Vistana and Marriott Abound points/Vistana elite level mapping. In my case I should be Select on combined points and Executive on Vistana 3* mapping but my MVC account remains at Owner and they billed me the $230 Owner fee.

So what will happen when they eventually raise me up where it should be? Also we dual owners are only supposed to be paying one Club dues across both programs but they've already billed me the wrong amount in one program. How will this coordinate with Vistana when they bill owners, especially since Vistana will likely bill me $270 instead as a 3* there since they aren't recognizing my combined ownership?  Madness could be ahead!


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## dioxide45 (Oct 18, 2022)

mbstn6254 said:


> Thank you all for your information.
> 
> When I added up all of the various fees including $230 for club dues the number tied out.
> 
> What do club dues pay for?


Every Abound member pays a Club Fee. The reason is is best to not calculate it for the purpose of these threads is because it is different based on your ownership level and it impacts the price per point depending on how many points you own. What the fee is actually for is to help Marriott's profits. It is simply a membership fee.


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## bazzap (Oct 18, 2022)

Although we have some of our MVC Resort Week(s) MFs posted now on the Owner website - Grand Chateau and St Kitts, the corresponding Statements and Budgets Package Inserts have not been added yet.


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## SueDonJ (Oct 18, 2022)

bazzap said:


> Although we have some of our MVC Resort Week(s) MFs posted now on the Owner website - Grand Chateau and St Kitts, the corresponding Statements and Budgets Package Inserts have not been added yet.


For those of us who are only Exchange Members (don't own Trust Points) the Club Dues invoices are also NOT posted yet.


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## mbstn6254 (Oct 18, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Every Abound member pays a Club Fee. The reason is is best to not calculate it for the purpose of these threads is because it is different based on your ownership level and it impacts the price per point depending on how many points you own. What the fee is actually for is to help Marriott's profits. It is simply a membership fee.


Silly me. I thought the $45,000 I spent to be  in the MVC was my membership fee.


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## Superchief (Oct 18, 2022)

My Trust Points increased from .622 to .684, including property tax. This is an increase of 9.9%, with a 5.4% increase in my chairman club dues. The proposed budget for Mountainside included an 11+% increase. I think it is time for Owner boards to start looking for areas to cut expenses. Activity fees have increased more than inflation in all of my resorts and I don't use most of them. These can easily be reduced and should be self funding. Why should owners be paying for free booze for mostly non-owners. Oceana Palms has exhorbitant activity costs. These reductions would also lower HR and management overhead costs.


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## sponger76 (Oct 18, 2022)

mbstn6254 said:


> Silly me. I thought the $45,000 I spent to be  in the MVC was my membership fee.


That was the cover charge to get in. Gotta keep paying the Club Dues to stay in.


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## DanCali (Oct 18, 2022)

BigDawgTUG said:


> 2023 Property Tax Fee:  $0.00592
> 2023 Operating Fee:     $0.678
> 
> Total:  $0.68392



This is pretty much equivalent to the going rental price of points which, unfortunately, implies that MVC has driven the intrinsic value of their points product to near-zero. 

Anyone who can rent points, and is minimally informed, has very little incentive to buy more (even on the resale market).

This is fixable if they start ROFRing prime weeks with high Points/MF ratios, but they are unlikely to do that because the profit margins on those weeks are much lower. This is how we got here to begin with - they ROFR 2000 points weeks with high Fs for near-nothing, and resell those as points for $30K+


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## TravelTime (Oct 18, 2022)

kozykritter said:


> This is about 6 cents higher than 2022's MF of $0.62796.



About a 10% increase. Makes sense due to inflation. I do not see MFs posted in my account.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 27, 2022)

We were told at a presentation on Tuesday that there was no increase in Trust Point maintenance fees in 2021 or 2022 and there would be no increase in 2023. That along with a few other whoppers...


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## VacationForever (Oct 27, 2022)

TravelTime said:


> About a 10% increase. Makes sense due to inflation. I do not see MFs posted in my account.


Seems earlier post. Increase is 8.8911 percent.


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## jmhpsu93 (Oct 27, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> We were told at a presentation on Tuesday that there was no increase in Trust Point maintenance fees in 2021 or 2022 and there would be no increase in 2023. That along with a few other whoppers...


I was told that same garbage at our last one in Hilton Head.


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## pspercy (Oct 27, 2022)

Today I received an email saying MF etc posted to website so I went there and nothing at all is posted, a blank page !

A few days ago I looked and DC points MF were posted in the normal style so I guess IT strikes again.


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## VacationForever (Oct 27, 2022)

pspercy said:


> Today I received an email saying MF etc posted to website so I went there and nothing at all is posted, a blank page !
> 
> A few days ago I looked and DC points MF were posted in the normal style so I guess IT strikes again.


Yes, the link from the email gives you a blank page.  You can get there through the lower right hand link for maintenance fees and dues.


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## l0410z (Oct 28, 2022)

Club Dues is a saver for enrolled owners.  I have a 3 bedroom in my II account and one enrolled.  In my II account $99 lock-off fee, $219 time 2 exchange fee, $89 times 2 ePlus (re-trade. I take out for every exchanged week at exchange time because it allows 3 re-trades) and finally II membership of $99….. totals $814.  Club dues $230.  I would pay a one time $1000 to have my II account folded into my enrolled account with no exchange for points benefit on the non enrolled weeks.   I personally would do it if with that $1000 I would lose the enrolled status of my MGC and just get the trading benefit for all my weeks.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 28, 2022)

l0410z said:


> Club Dues is a saver for enrolled owners.  I have a 3 bedroom in my II account and one enrolled.  In my II account $99 lock-off fee, $219 time 2 exchange fee, $89 times 2 ePlus (re-trade. I take out for every exchanged week at exchange time because it allows 3 re-trades) and finally II membership of $99….. totals $814.  Club dues $230.  I would pay a one time $1000 to have my II account folded into my enrolled account with no exchange for points benefit on the non enrolled weeks.   I personally would do it if with that $1000 I would lose the enrolled status of my MGC and just get the trading benefit for all my weeks.


I agree. The Club Fee is much better than paying those a la cart transaction fees. Only one correction to your numbers. The Marriott to Marriott exchange fee is only $164 and you still have to pay the fee for EPlus if you want it, but I guess that kind of goes away if you trade Marriott to Marriott anyway as those retrades are $0. Marriott currently charges tens of thousands to people to buy points in order to enroll otherwise ineligible post 6/20/2010 weeks. I am sure many would jump at paying $1000 to do the same.


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## l0410z (Oct 28, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I agree. The Club Fee is much better than paying those a la cart transaction fees. Only one correction to your numbers. The Marriott to Marriott exchange fee is only $164 and you still have to pay the fee for EPlus if you want it, but I guess that kind of goes away if you trade Marriott to Marriott anyway as those retrades are $0. Marriott currently charges tens of thousands to people to buy points in order to enroll otherwise ineligible post 6/20/2010 weeks. I am sure many would jump at paying $1000 to do the same.



Here is current fee list.  ePlus is only required for Marriott to no Marriott.  You do not need it to retrade from Marriott to a Marriott


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## dioxide45 (Oct 28, 2022)

l0410z said:


> Here is current fee list.  ePlus is only required for Marriott to no Marriott.  You do not need it to retrade from Marriott to a Marriott.


For unenrolled weeks, there is a $55 discount from the exchange fee when trading Marriott to Marriott or Marriott to Vistana.


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## l0410z (Oct 28, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> For unenrolled weeks, there is a $55 discount from the exchange fee when trading Marriott to Marriott or Marriott to Vistana.



everything is so automatic to me, I never paid attention.  Looked at charge card and you are 100% correct, it is 164.  So 814 - 110 -230= 474 savings for the cost of the club dues.


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## disnefile (Nov 1, 2022)

mbstn6254 said:


> Thank you all for your information.
> 
> When I added up all of the various fees including $230 for club dues the number tied out.
> 
> What do club dues pay for?


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## Safti (Nov 7, 2022)

Still waiting on Lakeshore. They are so slow

_[*Moderator Note*: Moved from MF's sticky thread.] <-- SueDonJ_


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## RManochio (Nov 8, 2022)

Purchased a bundle that closed summer 2022, so this is my first year paying maintenance fees. Got the property tax bill for Desert Springs II. I see my points maintenance fees for 2023 on the MVC site. But still shows $0 for the week. Any ideas when they usually post?

_[*Moderator Note*: Threads merged.] <-- SueDonJ_


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## SueDonJ (Nov 8, 2022)

RManochio said:


> Purchased a bundle that closed summer 2022, so this is my first year paying maintenance fees. Got the property tax bill for Desert Springs II. I see my points maintenance fees for 2023 on the MVC site. But still shows $0 for the week. Any ideas when they usually post?



The TUG MF's sticky threads are archived/linked in the Weeks FAQ sticky. For what it's worth last year the first post with DSVII MF's was dated 11/3/21 and the first post with DSVI MF's was dated 11/20/21, and for this year the DSVI MF's were just posted last night in the current MF's sticky thread.


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## michael49 (Nov 8, 2022)

RManochio said:


> Purchased a bundle that closed summer 2022, so this is my first year paying maintenance fees. Got the property tax bill for Desert Springs II. I see my points maintenance fees for 2023 on the MVC site. But still shows $0 for the week. Any ideas when they usually post?
> 
> _[*Moderator Note*: Threads merged.] <-- SueDonJ_


 If I remember correctly, DS II maintenance fees will post later this month or early December. Make sure that you pay the separate property tax bill that comes directly from Riverside County. We have already paid our property tax bill as it arrived late last month.


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## Safti (Nov 8, 2022)

Lakeshore is coming out with their fees on Nov. 30 and Canyon Villas on Nov. 14.


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## hcarman (Nov 8, 2022)

Superchief said:


> My Trust Points increased from .622 to .684, including property tax. This is an increase of 9.9%, with a 5.4% increase in my chairman club dues. The proposed budget for Mountainside included an 11+% increase. I think it is time for Owner boards to start looking for areas to cut expenses. Activity fees have increased more than inflation in all of my resorts and I don't use most of them. These can easily be reduced and should be self funding. Why should owners be paying for free booze for mostly non-owners. Oceana Palms has exhorbitant activity costs. These reductions would also lower HR and management overhead costs.


Ouch on the Trust Points increase and I remember them telling us that was a benefit of the Trust Points -  they have very minimal increases.  And why the increase in the club dues?  I guess I never did understand what exactly the club dues cover.


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## aka Julie (Nov 8, 2022)

Superchief said:


> My Trust Points increased from .622 to .684, including property tax. This is an increase of 9.9%, with a 5.4% increase in my chairman club dues. The proposed budget for Mountainside included an 11+% increase. I think it is time for Owner boards to start looking for areas to cut expenses. Activity fees have increased more than inflation in all of my resorts and I don't use most of them. These can easily be reduced and should be self funding. Why should owners be paying for free booze for mostly non-owners. Oceana Palms has exhorbitant activity costs. These reductions would also lower HR and management overhead costs.


Agree with the activities budget. We rarely go to any of them. Some of them are so lame. At Shadowridge one year they had a chocolate tasting. There was a total of less than 10 people and that is a huge property. And sometimes they are at very inconvenient hours.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 9, 2022)

WOW. The 15.32% increase at Harbour Point  is staggering to me, it jumped out as soon as I looked at the MF's thread this morning. It turns out it follows a year when the increase was less than the typical.

@rsackett, first, thanks for contributing to the MF's sticky threads. Second, can you provide any info that may have been shared by the HP board to explain the 15%, both as a wild swing in consecutive years as well as the particular focus on Reserves?? Is this a case of a mandated Fully-Funded Reserves waiver vote not passing??

Copying from MF's threads:

*2023*
_*Marriott's Harbour Point (2 Bedroom)*
Operating Fee – $1008.98
Replacement Reserve - $592.41
Property Taxes - $93.37
*TOTAL - $1694.76*_

*Increase over 2022 MF's - $224.32 (15.32%)*

and

*2022*
_*Harbour Point week 26*
Marriott's Harbour Point, 2 bedroom week 26
Operating Fee: ..................$956.53
Replacement Reserve: ...$423.26
Property Taxes: ...................$90.65
*TOTAL: .....................$1,470.44*_

*Increase/decrease over 2021 MF's: $50.44 0r 3.56%*


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## VacationForever (Nov 9, 2022)

I got a sticker shock with DSV I as well.  It had never gone up by more than $100 per year in the past.  DSV I MF + property tax is now almost $2K.  Never did I think that the maintenance fees would hit $2K so soon.


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## rsackett (Nov 11, 2022)

SueDonJ said:


> WOW. The 15.32% increase at Harbour Point  is staggering to me, it jumped out as soon as I looked at the MF's thread this morning. It turns out it follows a year when the increase was less than the typical.
> 
> @rsackett, first, thanks for contributing to the MF's sticky threads. Second, can you provide any info that may have been shared by the HP board to explain the 15%, both as a wild swing in consecutive years as well as the particular focus on Reserves?? Is this a case of a mandated Fully-Funded Reserves waiver vote not passing??
> ...


 This is a quote from the maintence fee packare:

_"Financial Attached to this letter is the budget established for 2023. Inflation has been in the news for most of the year, and our expenses have not been immune to its effects. While we have managed to keep the increase in the operating expense portion of the maintenance fee low for several years, inflation has made it necessary to increase that part of the budget to offset the rise in labor and utility costs, and other commodity prices. Also, due to the timing of several significant projects as discussed above, the Board decided it was that it was necessary to make a significant increase the Reserve portion of the maintenance fee for 2022. The Board also voted to transfer $900,000 from the Operating Capital line item to the Reserve Fund to reduce the overall increase to the maintenance fee. 

After taking into account other revenues that offset some of our expenses, the maintenance fee increase as shown on the second line of the table on the attached “2023 Estimated Operating Budget” sheet is 15.3%. In context, the change in the maintenance fee has been an average of 5.6% for the past six years. "

Ray_


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## SueDonJ (Nov 11, 2022)

rsackett said:


> This is a quote from the maintence fee packare:
> 
> _"Financial Attached to this letter is the budget established for 2023. Inflation has been in the news for most of the year, and our expenses have not been immune to its effects. While we have managed to keep the increase in the operating expense portion of the maintenance fee low for several years, inflation has made it necessary to increase that part of the budget to offset the rise in labor and utility costs, and other commodity prices. Also, due to the timing of several significant projects as discussed above, the Board decided it was that it was necessary to make a significant increase the Reserve portion of the maintenance fee for 2022. The Board also voted to transfer $900,000 from the Operating Capital line item to the Reserve Fund to reduce the overall increase to the maintenance fee.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## dougp26364 (Nov 12, 2022)

It seems to me that MVC fees have always come in over the rate of inflation. The average of 5.6% over the last 6 years seems considerably higher than the rate of inflation during that period. 15% is definitely higher than the current rate of inflation.
At these rates MVC will eventually price themselves out of business. We’ve managed to keep up with the increases for over 20 years, but we’re not on a fixed income yet.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 12, 2022)

_[*Moderator Note*: Moved from MF's sticky thread.] <-- SueDonJ_



Foggy1 said:


> Shadow Ridge - Villages  Unit      2023 $       2022 $Increase  % IncEY Gold   Operating$  1,463.67  Replacement$      476.92     Total$  1,940.59$   1,684.78$255.8115.2%​Prop Tax Extra


Holy crap!  Huge increase.  What is the reason for that?


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## Foggy1 (Nov 12, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Holy crap!  Huge increase.  What is the reason for that?


At the Annual Meeting they blamed Inflation, Cost of Goods and Increased Labor due to Minimum Wage requirements and other standard excuses. 

They are also undertaking a Remodel of all the rooms over a 3-4 year period.  MAJOR remodel to the tune of $65,000/Unit.  They have a "Mock up" of the new room in the 1000 Building.  My opinion of the new configuration is  If you visit the property, you might try to schedule a viewing of the new rooms.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 12, 2022)

My owners' account doesn't work.  There is always an apology when I try to do anything.  I cannot see maintenance fee packages, even for those resorts who have announced fees for 2023, like Shadow Ridge.  I made a payment a while back, two months ago or so, of basically what fees were for 2022, just to get things aligned with my budget.  Seeing the > 15% increase of Shadow Ridge is a bit of a shock.  I hope they fix my ability to pay and book online.  I am pretty disappointed in their website, and the Vistana website, which doesn't allow me to pay my second WKORV payment because the statement is not listed.  Just one is listed.  I have to call to pay that.  

I thought websites were supposed to be easier for the company.  It's nice to have less people on the phones, right?  

I assume they will get everything fixed by the due date for our maintenance fees.  I want to pay everything by 12/31 for tax purposes, since we have quite a bit of rental income for 2022.


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## aka Julie (Nov 12, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> My owners' account doesn't work.  There is always an apology when I try to do anything.  I cannot see maintenance fee packages, even for those resorts who have announced fees for 2023, like Shadow Ridge.  I made a payment a while back, two months ago or so, of basically what fees were for 2022, just to get things aligned with my budget.  Seeing the > 15% increase of Shadow Ridge is a bit of a shock.  I hope they fix my ability to pay and book online.  I am pretty disappointed in their website, and the Vistana website, which doesn't allow me to pay my second WKORV payment because the statement is not listed.  Just one is listed.  I have to call to pay that.
> 
> I thought websites were supposed to be easier for the company.  It's nice to have less people on the phones, right?
> 
> I assume they will get everything fixed by the due date for our maintenance fees.  I want to pay everything by 12/31 for tax purposes, since we have quite a bit of rental income for 2022.



I can’t see my Shadowridge bill either.  Have been checking several times a day.  Definitely not happy with the huge increase.  $65,000 remodel in each unit.  OMG. I bet the furniture will still be uncomfortable + no ceiling fans in bedrooms in a desert climate.  We have not stayed there in several years due to splitting and getting 2 week trades in II.  We will have to continue doing this to maximize our now over $2,000 cost (MF + property taxes).  It may soon be time to chuck it.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Nov 12, 2022)

aka Julie said:


> I can’t see my Shadowridge bill either.  Have been checking several times a day.  Definitely not happy with the huge increase.  $65,000 remodel in each unit.  OMG. I bet the furniture will still be uncomfortable + no ceiling fans in bedrooms in a desert climate.  We have not stayed there in several years due to splitting and getting 2 week trades in II.  We will have to continue doing this to maximize our now over $2,000 cost (MF + property taxes).  It may soon be time to chuck it.


I just bought, so chucking is not something I am going to do, but the fees are out of control.  I wonder if Enclaves is going to be that high as well?  

Lakeshore Reserve is something I would love to own, it's a favorite of my kids, but the fees kept me from buying a resale on ebay.  I can pay the upgrade fee and use Shadow Ridge to trade in.  It's going to be cheaper for me over owning a 2 bedroom at Lakeshore.  

My ongoing searches for Maui for our 50th anniversary are not coming through with Shadow Ridge.  I was sure I would have gotten a trade for March by now.  Our kids were all going to join us on Maui for that special day.  I don't see our daughter and oldest son making the trip with airfare so high now.  We are going to do a trip to Wisconsin Dells instead, which will be so fun, too.  That will be early June.


----------



## klkaylor (Nov 14, 2022)

This thread made me go back and look hard at the data I had for 2019-2023 (changed system to manage points better)
I removed taxes as I the boards do not control that so...
Kept the Club fee in my trust points as I think the club fee/trust MF are fungible methods by which MVC gets it budget/profit
Here is my report so far - Timberlodge up 13.1% (6 units avg), Wiaohai up 22.3% Grand Chateau up 6.8%(two units averaged)
My trust points went up 18% but most of that was due to an increse in my dues to 295 
Still waiting on Kolina, and Grand Residence in Tahoe.
One interesting point is that my points from weeks avg .43/pp - much less than the points from the trust - not including taxes.
Glad my points come from weeks - I could not afford that MF/pp if they were all from the trust.


----------



## Red elephant (Nov 14, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I just bought, so chucking is not something I am going to do, but the fees are out of control.  I wonder if Enclaves is going to be that high as well?
> 
> Lakeshore Reserve is something I would love to own, it's a favorite of my kids, but the fees kept me from buying a resale on ebay.  I can pay the upgrade fee and use Shadow Ridge to trade in.  It's going to be cheaper for me over owning a 2 bedroom at Lakeshore.
> 
> My ongoing searches for Maui for our 50th anniversary are not coming through with Shadow Ridge.  I was sure I would have gotten a trade for March by now.  Our kids were all going to join us on Maui for that special day.  I don't see our daughter and oldest son making the trip with airfare so high now.  We are going to do a trip to Wisconsin Dells instead, which will be so fun, too.  That will be early June.


I had a great price on a 2 bedroom lockoff at Lakeshore but turned it down due to fees of $2300 and that does not include the increase for 2023. It’s ridiculous and with the merger I can use my SVR abound points to go there.


----------



## jwalk03 (Nov 14, 2022)

Red elephant said:


> I had a great price on a 2 bedroom lockoff at Lakeshore but turned it down due to fees of $2300 and that does not include the increase for 2023. It’s ridiculous and with the merger I can use my SVR abound points to go there.



The problem with Lakeshore was failing to build it out more.  With only 85 units its just so small that just makes the cost per week so much higher for the resort amenities.

Great resort to visit but I would never buy a week there with such high costs.


----------



## Red elephant (Nov 14, 2022)

jwalk03 said:


> The problem with Lakeshore was failing to build it out more.  With only 85 units its just so small that just makes the cost per week so much higher for the resort amenities.
> 
> Great resort to visit but I would never buy a week there with such high costs.


Then they really should just build it out as people will not continue to pay those fees. It’s still Orlando.


----------



## jmhpsu93 (Nov 14, 2022)

Red elephant said:


> Then they really should just build it out as people will not continue to pay those fees. It’s still Orlando.


They sold the property that was originally going to be the next phase.  I'd have been SAL-TY if I had bought with the understanding that MFs would reflect a larger resort footprint.


----------



## Red elephant (Nov 14, 2022)

jmhpsu93 said:


> They sold the property that was originally going to be the next phase.  I'd have been SAL-TY if I had bought with the understanding that MFs would reflect a larger resort footprint.


Omg!!! That is terrible.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 14, 2022)

jmhpsu93 said:


> They sold the property that was originally going to be the next phase.  I'd have been SAL-TY if I had bought with the understanding that MFs would reflect a larger resort footprint.


I am not aware that they sold the adjacent land at Lakeshore Reserve. It is part of the larger Grande Lakes property. As far as I know, Marriott still owns it. It isn't like they could really sell it to some third party investor to build apartments.


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## bazzap (Nov 14, 2022)

jwalk03 said:


> The problem with Lakeshore was failing to build it out more.  With only 85 units its just so small that just makes the cost per week so much higher for the resort amenities.
> 
> Great resort to visit but I would never buy a week there with such high costs.


Several MVC resorts were never fully built out.
Playa Andaluza in Spain is another and this must have negatively impacted MFs for owners with fewer units than initially planned.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 14, 2022)

bazzap said:


> Several MVC resorts were never fully built out.
> Playa Andaluza in Spain is another and this must have negatively impacted MFs for owners with fewer units than initially planned.


It seems to impact Harbour Lake as well. The fees there are $100+ than the fees at Grande Vista.


----------



## Foggy1 (Nov 15, 2022)

In reading about buildouts, I was reminded that during Shadow Ridge’s annual meeting last month, the subject was briefly discussed about the vacant land on site.

The vacant parcel (about 20 acres) along Shadow Ridge Rd. that goes out the back gate to Gerald Ford Dr. has been for sale for a few years.  It sounds like they don’t have definite plans, or aren’t saying.  Yes, it is, or might be for sale.  Could be Condos, Single Family(?) or???  Didn’t give a real answer.

However, the second vacant parcel, the fenced property by the Enclaves, will be built out.  Maybe starting in 2023.  It did look like there was new activity in that area.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 15, 2022)

Foggy1 said:


> In reading about buildouts, I was reminded that during Shadow Ridge’s annual meeting last month, the subject was briefly discussed about the vacant land on site.
> 
> The vacant parcel (about 20 acres) along Shadow Ridge Rd. that goes out the back gate to Gerald Ford Dr. has been for sale for a few years.  It sounds like they don’t have definite plans, or aren’t saying.  Yes, it is, or might be for sale.  Could be Condos, Single Family(?) or???  Didn’t give a real answer.
> 
> However, the second vacant parcel, the fenced property by the Enclaves, will be built out.  Maybe starting in 2023.  It did look like there was new activity in that area.


There is a for sale sign on the Gerald Ford entrance of the property. Canyon Villas is another property, similar to Lakeshore Reserve where their hands may be tied on selling the undeveloped land. It seems that MVC has no appetite for completing these builds. They can make much more money by flipping some urban hotel where they allocate a lot of points to small units. The points product has killed any new timeshares in overbuilt locations like Vegas, Orlando or Palm Desert.


----------



## daviator (Nov 15, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> There is a for sale sign on the Gerald Ford entrance of the property. Canyon Villas is another property, similar to Lakeshore Reserve where their hands may be tied on selling the undeveloped land. It seems that MVC has no appetite for completing these builds. They can make much more money by flipping some urban hotel where they allocate a lot of points to small units. The points product has killed any new timeshares in overbuilt locations like Vegas, Orlando or Palm Desert.


Westin Desert Willow (Palm Desert) is another property (Vistana, so only marginally off-topic here) that was never finished.  There is room for (IIRC) 5 more buildings.  During construction of previous phases, they built a lot of the infrastructure, including parking, curbs, and I assume they have plumbing and electric (conduit at least) running to the sites, it would have made sense to do that before they poured all the concrete and asphalt.  They also built all the pools, I think, so the property actually has at least one more pool than it really needs for its current size.  That impacts MFs as owners are paying for amenities that should have been divided among more VOIs.  But once the sale to Marriott happened, they seem to have lost interest in finishing.

But the WDW land is landlocked and could not be developed for any other purpose, the only access is through the property, so they will have to develop them as timeshare units eventually, or just leave the land undeveloped.


----------



## jmhpsu93 (Nov 15, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not aware that they sold the adjacent land at Lakeshore Reserve. It is part of the larger Grande Lakes property. As far as I know, Marriott still owns it. It isn't like they could really sell it to some third party investor to build apartments.


I swear we (the greater we here on TUG, not just the two of us) had a conversation about that property being for sale like 3 years ago.


----------



## dioxide45 (Nov 15, 2022)

jmhpsu93 said:


> I swear we (the greater we here on TUG, not just the two of us) had a conversation about that property being for sale like 3 years ago.


That would have been Harbour Lake. They had a deal to sell that land, it was under contract. The deal fell through though when the state of Florida said they would be using eminent domain to take what I think was 60 feet in order to support the I4 Ultimate Project through that section of I4.


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## winger (Nov 15, 2022)

klkaylor said:


> ...
> I removed taxes as I the boards do not control that so...
> Kept the Club fee in my trust points as I think the club fee/trust MF are fungible methods by which MVC gets it budget/profit..
> .
> ...


Why not include taxes?  Most resorts include that in the same MF statement, thus the increases reported here and on similar threads also includes property taxes. You not including property taxes, makes it comparing apples to oranges when looking at MF changes across all properties.


----------



## winger (Nov 15, 2022)

rickandcindy23 said:


> .. .
> 
> My ongoing searches for Maui for our 50th anniversary are not coming through with Shadow Ridge.  I was sure I would have gotten a trade for March by now.  Our kids were all going to join us on Maui for that special day.  I don't see our daughter and oldest son making the trip with airfare so high now.  We are going to do a trip to Wisconsin Dells instead, which will be so fun, too.  That will be early June.


The airfare uncertainty is the MAIN reason my idea of movimv to Hawaii got shot down. Also, we cancelled our upcoming spring break Ko Olina trip because of the insane airfare prices.

And can you imagine the real cost of a Hawaiim vacation if you did not have your timeshares to help with accommodations?


----------



## klkaylor (Nov 15, 2022)

winger said:


> Why not include taxes?  Most resorts include that in the same MF statement, thus the increases reported here and on similar threads also includes property taxes. You not including property taxes, makes it comparing apples to oranges when looking at MF changes across all properties.


Fair comment - I guess the issue is what the data is being used for-
If using them to look at how the board of your unit is controlling cost then striping taxes makes sense - they can only control the things they control and property taxes is not one of them. This is especially true in CA where the tax value (assessment) is far above the resale value of the unit and taxes are also relatively high.
If we are just comparing for discussion sake then doing them all the same is important.  I would caution that if you are comparing CA MF as billed from MVC those do not contain any property taxes as those are billed directly to the owner. I will go see if the 2022 MF for Grand Residence or Timberlodge for CA include taxes.  Still good for comparison.  

I went back a couple of years an all of the CA properties I found do not include property taxes in their numbers - some added a small note at the bottom that there were property taxes but they dont make their way to the main list.  Maybe this post should serve as a question for all of us - should all MF posts include a line for taxes - the CA owners just have to add them in for a fair comparison.


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## LUVourMarriotts (Nov 15, 2022)

I really wish MVC would give me a realistic option to get rid of my MFV (Fairway Villas) week.  I have it enrolled, and I haven't visited the resort in several years, probably never will again.  The MF increases significantly every year, this year was 9.7%.  The MF to point conversion is at $0.84/point this year.  
I did reach out to my sales guy and asked him about this.  He said MVC won't touch it, because its already enrolled in points, so they could care less.  If it weren't enrolled, he said they'd offer me the option to "convert" my ownership from week to points, but I'd have to basically pay for a majority of those points, minus a small buyback sum they give me.  
I wish this resort would just be sold or something like that.  (yearly frustration occurring now)


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## Fasttr (Nov 15, 2022)

LUVourMarriotts said:


> I really wish MVC would give me a realistic option to get rid of my MFV (Fairway Villas) week.  I have it enrolled, and I haven't visited the resort in several years, probably never will again.  The MF increases significantly every year, this year was 9.7%.  The MF to point conversion is at $0.84/point this year.
> I did reach out to my sales guy and asked him about this.  He said MVC won't touch it, because its already enrolled in points, so they could care less.  If it weren't enrolled, he said they'd offer me the option to "convert" my ownership from week to points, but I'd have to basically pay for a majority of those points, minus a small buyback sum they give me.
> I wish this resort would just be sold or something like that.  (yearly frustration occurring now)


Perhaps they would do a direct deed back from you.  You would get $0 for it, and likely have to pay for cost to re-title the deed, but at least you would be out from under it.

Give the MVC Exit folks a call.  https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/exit/


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## aka Julie (Nov 16, 2022)

For the first time I am experiencing difficulties paying maintenance fees on-line.  

I have tried for several days and most of the time I can’t even get to the screen that displays the amounts.  I now know what a lot of you have put up with in past years.  I’m certainly glad they did the recent major upgrade to the website.

So I had to call in since I pay with my Marriott Chase credit card.  To add insult, the recorded message tells you that you can pay on their website.

After a wait of several minutes, I was connected.  I conveyed my frustrations, and I was told that their website works best with Google Chrome.  I told him that I use Safari and Firefox and have no intentions being forced to download/use Google Chrome.  A company their size should make their website function properly across many platforms.

It’s a shame that owners have to put up with such a poor website.  I’m so glad my exorbitant MF contribute in a small way to MVC’s operations.  Guess it’s all about selling.  Good luck after you’re an owner.


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## jmhpsu93 (Nov 16, 2022)

aka Julie said:


> So I had to call in since I pay with my Marriott Chase credit card.  *To add insult, the recorded message tells you that you can pay on their website.*



I scream at the phone in profanity during the greeting.  The fact that you have to wait for the syrupy voice stating that you can do something online that doesn't work so you had to call, to finish before you can start navigating the phone tree is infuriating.


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## aka Julie (Nov 16, 2022)

jmhpsu93 said:


> I scream at the phone in profanity during the greeting.  The fact that you have to wait for the syrupy voice stating that you can do something online that doesn't work so you had to call, to finish before you can start navigating the phone tree is infuriating.



I do the same thing.  It helps me to vent.  Duh if I could do it online, I wouldn’t be calling in.


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## naka4 (Nov 20, 2022)

Haven't seen any comments on the large maintenance fee increases. Shadow Ridge is up 19% and many others are at least 9 to 13%. They are absurd!


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## rthib (Nov 21, 2022)

Did you check the MF Stick Thread?


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## jwalk03 (Nov 21, 2022)

Whole thread bout it- here.









						2023 MF's Discussion Thread
					

Has the Trust not reported maintenance fees on DC/Abound Club Points yet for 2023? I thought they usually come out much earlier than any weeks ever do.




					tugbbs.com


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## LUVourMarriotts (Nov 21, 2022)

Fasttr said:


> Perhaps they would do a direct deed back from you.  You would get $0 for it, and likely have to pay for cost to re-title the deed, but at least you would be out from under it.
> 
> Give the MVC Exit folks a call.  https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/exit/


Oh yes, they will definitely allow me to do this.  I have called to ask in the past.  But, as you say, I have to pay some sort of transfer fee, so it is actually me paying MVC to give back the deed.  I don't feel like that makes sense.  I do get the use of the points each year, just at a higher cost per point.  From a resort perspective, I've been told many times, by the different GM's there, that this resort has a much higher default rate than any other property in the portfolio.  One GM told me it was close to 10x more than the next property.  This is just part of the reason MF's are higher at this location, taxes being another big hit.  It always makes me mad when I get a yearly update email that says they are adding all sorts of new amenities, or updating/rebuilding different amenities.


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## naka4 (Nov 21, 2022)

Thanks appreciate it. I did see that but thought it was all about club points and I am still just a week owner. 

Guess we all fall under that category now!


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 22, 2022)

Some interesting number from the Desert Springs Association related to MF, what items went up the most from 2022:

Income Tax (1027% increase though not a big number)
Gas 50.9% increase
Electric 43.5% increase
Water and Sewer 40.5% increase

So, basically, utilities as far as percentage increses, some pretty astounding numbers to me, though it is California. The biggest expense increase (in dollars) line item:  Housekeeping, $37.67 per timeshare interest, which is 14.2%.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 23, 2022)

igopogo said:


> Given the labor challenges in the service sector and inflation in general, that seems reasonable. I was bracing for something higher.


It is interesting hear this said.  In the many years of no inflation, i kept hearing here how labor costa were going up so fast that the large increases were justified.  Now se finally have inflation (so far for less than a year) and labor costs re still being blamed.  Do you have any idea what the housekeepers are being paid.  If the labor costs were primarily to blame over the years, the housekeepers would be receiving very llarge salaries now and they are not.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 24, 2022)

Add Willow Ridge Lodge, where only three of possibly 12 buildings were ever finished, and Grand Chateau where only 3 of 4 planned towers has been built.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 24, 2022)

BocaBoy said:


> It is interesting hear this said.  In the many years of no inflation, i kept hearing here how labor costa were going up so fast that the large increases were justified.  Now se finally have inflation (so far for less than a year) and labor costs re still being blamed.  Do you have any idea what the housekeepers are being paid.  If the labor costs were primarily to blame over the years, the housekeepers would be receiving very llarge salaries now and they are not.


First it was labor costs due to rising healthcare, now it is due to rising wages. At least that is what they claim…


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## pedro47 (Nov 25, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> First it was labor costs due to rising healthcare, now it is due to rising wages. At least that is what they claim…


Maybe the new federal minimum wages law is the cause ?


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## Foggy1 (Nov 25, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Maybe the new federal minimum wages law is the cause ?


SR did mention minimum wage costs.  Calif. is currently $15/Hr. and they anticipate going to $17/Hr.  Much higher than the the Fed minimum.  The labor factor varies from local to local.


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## BreakingAway (Nov 25, 2022)

Foggy1 said:


> SR did mention minimum wage costs.  Calif. is currently $15/Hr. and they anticipate going to $17/Hr.  Much higher than the the Fed minimum.  The labor factor varies from local to local.


Extra cleaning and sanitizing due to Covid 19 has increased the amount of work housekeeping has to do. So I would expect housekeeping expenses to increase for that reason alone. I appreciate the extra cleaning and comfortable paying for it.


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## aka Julie (Nov 25, 2022)

BreakingAway said:


> Extra cleaning and sanitizing due to Covid 19 has increased the amount of work housekeeping has to do. So I would expect housekeeping expenses to increase for that reason alone. I appreciate the extra cleaning and comfortable paying for it.


I think the ”extra” cleaning is more talk than action.  I still find light switch plates dirty, desk phone, etc., crumbs on rug.  I feel housekeeping has deteriorated over the years.


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## petersmaze (Nov 26, 2022)

I see a potential big mess coming with the Club dues billing, particularly for some dual owners (or maybe just me ). They billed trust owners for the dues before they have finished syncing up recognition levels based upon combined Vistana and Marriott Abound points/Vistana elite level mapping. In my case I should be Select on combined points and Executive on Vistana 3* mapping but my MVC account remains at Owner and they billed me the $230 Owner fee.


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## needvaca (Nov 26, 2022)

pedro47 said:


> Maybe the new federal minimum wages law is the cause ?



the “rising labor costs” includes executives compensation. The MVC CEO’s compensation has doubled over the last 5 years to $13,000,000.  And their other management as well. 
This equates to $6,500/hour.


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## aka Julie (Nov 28, 2022)

Will MVC ever get their act together?

I have yet to receive any notification that our 3 MF bills are ready.  I have to go look for them and find out 2 of them were dated November 11 (it's now November 28).  How long does it take them to notify us?  I have been signed up for ebilling for many years. The bill for the Club Dues has not appeared yet, but the amount shows up in my payment area.

I bet the Vistana folks are so glad to be a part of Abound.  If MVC didn't have their act together, they should have delayed the launch.

This is the first year I've been thoroughly disgusted with paying my MF.

Rant over.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 28, 2022)

aka Julie said:


> Will MVC ever get their act together?
> 
> I have yet to receive any notification that our 3 MF bills are ready.  I have to go look for them and find out 2 of them were dated November 11 (it's now November 28).  How long does it take them to notify us?  I have been signed up for ebilling for many years. The bill for the Club Dues has not appeared yet, but the amount shows up in my payment area.
> 
> ...


I noticed the same thing with Barony Beach Club's MF's, Julie. This is the first year that it was posted to the website without the email notifications going out simultaneously, and it is strange that the invoice is dated Nov 11 but it wasn't posted to the website until yesterday. I was able to get the invoice and Operating Budget by signing in and clicking on "Maintenance Fees/Club Dues" in the dropdown box under "ACCOUNT," then wait through a bit of lag until the amount shows up, then click on "View Statements and Budgets."

************ Something Else ************

There's an ongoing thread related to ARDA-ROC fees in the Vistana forum, ARDA fees seem to be not voluntary ... It was started by a Vistana owner but it covers all the systems so if you want to talk about it, please do it there. There reason I'm putting a comment here is because Marriott owners who don't read the Vistana forum might want to pay attention to the amount that's being suggested as an optional contribution this year - my Barony amount increased from $5.00 to $10.00. Again, I just want to call attention to the amount for Marriott owners, but if you want to discuss the topic I'm asking you to go to the linked thread. More importantly, remember that this is a totally voluntary contribution.


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## DRH90277 (Nov 28, 2022)

Newport Coast maintenance fees - Has anyone seen anything on these?  Seems pretty late.


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## Seagila (Nov 29, 2022)

vol_90 said:


> *Marriott Phuket Beach Club*
> 
> 2023 Thai Baht 36,124.48 (2022 - 35,078.69) inclusive of 7% VAT
> 
> *An increase of 2.98%*



With a strong USD and the current exchange rate, the increase for US-based owners is effectively lower than 2.98%.


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## vol_90 (Nov 29, 2022)

Seagila said:


> With a strong USD and the current exchange rate, the increase for US-based owners is effectively lower than 2.98%.


It will be negative for those converting USD to THB this year.  I paid close to 30 THB to the $ in 2022.  Right now the THB is just above 35.  Just remember there are times when this flips and the THB has strengthened against the USD in a given year.  Owners of the Phuket Beach Club weeks need to be aware of exchange rate risk as all MF's must be paid in THB.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 30, 2022)

mjm1 said:


> Newport Coast Villas 2BR (all units are 2BR):
> 
> Condo reserves                    77.35
> Master reserves                    82.13
> ...


This is the resort with the highest increase for me. Disappointing.


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## mjm1 (Nov 30, 2022)

MOXJO7282 said:


> This is the resort with the highest increase for me. Disappointing.



We are disappointed too. Our Desert Springs Villas I increased just over 10% and NCV over 12%. I attribute both larger increases to being in California with higher salaries as a large component of the increase.

Best regards.

Mike


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 1, 2022)

mjm1 said:


> We are disappointed too. Our Desert Springs Villas I increased just over 10% and NCV over 12%. I attribute both larger increases to being in California with higher salaries as a large component of the increase.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


That being said,  NCV with taxes is still cheaper than any of my HHI Marriotts.


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## VacationForever (Dec 1, 2022)

MOXJO7282 said:


> That being said,  NCV with taxes is still cheaper than any of my HHI Marriotts.


...and way cheaper and smaller absolute dollar increase compared to my 2 Desert Springs Villas 1 (red) weeks.


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## GetawaysRus (Dec 1, 2022)

VacationForever said:


> ...and way cheaper and smaller absolute dollar increase compared to my 2 Desert Springs Villas 1 (red) weeks.


I've always thought that the lockoff feature at DSV was worth something, especially compared to NCV (which doesn't lock off), and that should figure in when comparing maintenance fees. But I've never known what sort of value to place on it.

Anyone care to make a guess about that? Any TUG wisdom on this?

Clearly if you use your 2BR unit at each resort for your own stay, that value is zero. But I doubt that we all do that, especially the DSV weeks owners.


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## VacationForever (Dec 1, 2022)

GetawaysRus said:


> I've always thought that the lockoff feature at DSV was worth something, especially compared to NCV (which doesn't lock off), and that should figure in when comparing maintenance fees. But I've never known what sort of value to place on it.
> 
> Anyone care to make a guess about that? Any TUG wisdom on this?
> 
> Clearly if you use your 2BR unit at each resort for your own stay, that value is zero. But I doubt that we all do that, especially the DSV weeks owners.


You are absolutely right and thank you for reminding me that the 2BR L/O is why we chose DSV I over NCV.  I have always locked off the 2BR at DSV, since we bought in 2013.  We had initially used it to trade in II but for the past 3 years, we rented out the 1BR side and deposited the studio side into II and traded back into DSV I for 2BR for when we travel in winter.


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## aka Julie (Dec 14, 2022)

dioxide45 said:


> Has the Trust not reported maintenance fees on DC/Abound Club Points yet for 2023? I thought they usually come out much earlier than any weeks ever do.


I finally got an email today (12/14) that my invoice was ready for Club dues.  The invoice is dated 11/19.  On the ball as usual. Also they are finally acknowledging on their website that there may be issues accessing via Apple devices.  Earlier they told me Chrome works best.  I don’t use Chrome and refuse to download it just for them.  Funny even the smallest on-line business works on most platforms.  Why cant MVC?


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## winger (Dec 14, 2022)

aka Julie said:


> ... Funny even the smallest on-line business works on most platforms.  Why cant MVC?


BECAUSE MVC is in the travel &  hospitality business, and technology is not their thing


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## bazzap (Dec 15, 2022)

winger said:


> BECAUSE MVC is in the travel &  hospitality business, and technology is not their thing


Presumably though they do pay a huge sum of money to outsource their IT to a company whose business is technology?


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## timsi (Dec 15, 2022)

winger said:


> BECAUSE MVC is in the travel &  hospitality business, and technology is not their thing


Hospitality is not just about the resorts, it is a whole experience that starts with booking and customer service before, during and after the trip. If they do not understand that we interact with the company a lot more than just during our vacations, we have bigger problems. Aside from that, today you can’t be in any business with a large number of customers and NOT be in IT.


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## winger (Dec 15, 2022)

bazzap said:


> Presumably though they do pay a huge sum of money to outsource their IT to a company whose business is technology?


Do you know when that outsourcing started? If recent, maybe it's taking time to get things rolling.  Or maybe Marriott chose the wrong company and/or being cheap with things (and you know that saying).


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## bazzap (Dec 15, 2022)

winger said:


> Do you know when that outsourcing started? If recent, maybe it's taking time to get things rolling.  Or maybe Marriott chose the wrong company and/or being cheap with things (and you know that saying).


I have been trying to find out (hopefully someone on here knows?)
I had thought that it started a long while ago, but I did see someone suggest that it was more recent.
It would certainly be good to know when and who.


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