# Paying Marriott MF



## samara64 (Nov 8, 2017)

Getting ready to pay MF for MVCI. Should I use Sapphire Reserve 3/$ or Marriott Visa card.

Will Marriott visa give me 5 points/$ or just 3/$ when paying MF to MVCI.

Any feedback is appreciated.


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## Saintsfanfl (Nov 8, 2017)

It counts as a Marriott purchase so you get 5/$. Even slightly better is the SPG Amex which after converted to MRP gives 6/$.


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## samara64 (Nov 8, 2017)

Thanks Saintsfan. Do not have SPG so will use Marriott visa.


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## jeepie (Nov 8, 2017)

Samara, I would definitely use the Sapphire Reserve. Ultimate Rewards points are 2-3x more valuable than Marriott Rewards points. Ymmv. Cheers.


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## Saintsfanfl (Nov 8, 2017)

jeepie said:


> Samara, I would definitely use the Sapphire Reserve. Ultimate Rewards points are 2-3x more valuable than Marriott Rewards points. Ymmv. Cheers.



That depends on how you use them. If you maximize the MRP value it is nowhere near 2-3x more valuable. With a travel package you can get 1 to 1 airlines miles to mrps and at 6 points per dollar there really isn't another reward program that comes close. Ultimate reward transfers at 1:1 so that flips your value. The SPG Amex is 2x more valuable than Saphire Rewards and the Marriott Chase Visa is close behind but again it all depends on how you plan to utilize the points.


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## breezez (Nov 8, 2017)

Saintsfanfl said:


> That depends on how you use them. If you maximize the MRP value it is nowhere near 2-3x more valuable. With a travel package you can get 1 to 1 airlines miles to mrps and at 6 points per dollar there really isn't another reward program that comes close. Ultimate reward transfers at 1:1 so that flips your value. The SPG Amex is 2x more valuable than Saphire Rewards and the Marriott Chase Visa is close behind but again it all depends on how you plan to utilize the points.



Can you explain the 1 for 1 under MRP.  I thought I understood the travel packages as for years I have been doing the 1 week deal for 120K miles and a week stay certificate for 275K reward points.   I would do them under South West and get Instant Companion Pass for 2 years.   SW just plugged this loop hole March this year, but I beat the deadline and got another one a year early that lasts all this year and next.

But I don’t see how you can exchange MRP for 1:1 ratio with airlines.  Please explain you have peaked my interest.


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## breezez (Nov 8, 2017)

For you MRP collectors if I buy a resale Marriott do you also get points for paying your fees above the amount you can earn paying with their branded card?

I.e. 10 points per $ of fees like a stay, and do you get stay credit on the stays at the resorts when using your TS?


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## Saintsfanfl (Nov 8, 2017)

breezez said:


> Can you explain the 1 for 1 under MRP.  I thought I understood the travel packages as for years I have been doing the 1 week deal for 120K miles and a week stay certificate for 275K reward points.   I would do them under South West and get Instant Companion Pass for 2 years.   SW just plugged this loop hole March this year, but I beat the deadline and got another one a year early that lasts all this year and next.
> 
> But I don’t see how you can exchange MRP for 1:1 ratio with airlines.  Please explain you have peaked my interest.



For the travel package you receive the normal 5 or 7 nights for the required category but the airline miles are 1:1. Some airline miles are not valued the same and might be higher but I believe SW is still 1:1.

The caveat to my valuation is you need to get the 5 or 7 nights and obviously be able to utilize it. Some 5 night redemptions are worth less than desirable but others are much more than 1 penny per point. For example my spouse goes to a convention every year and the room is about $280 per night. The 5 nights only costs 80,000 points which is a great value compared to the $1,400 and then on top of this I can get the airline miles at 1:1.


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## breezez (Nov 8, 2017)

Got it..


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## Saintsfanfl (Nov 8, 2017)

breezez said:


> For you MRP collectors if I buy a resale Marriott do you also get points for paying your fees above the amount you can earn paying with their branded card?
> 
> I.e. 10 points per $ of fees like a stay, and do you get stay credit on the stays at the resorts when using your TS?



From what I understand from your question it is no. You do not get credit for the dollars spent on maintenance fees above what was charged on the card for maintenance fees. You do get elite nights credit for Marriott timeshare stays but nothing more on what was spent on the maintenance fees. You do get additional points for most of the spend at the resorts like food and beverage. This can be up to 21 points per dollar at vacation club properties.


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## Helios (Nov 8, 2017)

Definitely the Sapphire Reserve.  YMMV.


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## samara64 (Nov 8, 2017)

Well, my wife just got the Marriott card and we have to spend $3,000 to get the 80K. So best value would be MF for sure at 5/$1

I was thinking to spend $5,000 for MF to get 112,000 MRP (80,000 + 25,000 + 7500 (adl. user bonus)) . Transfer these to United for 50,000 miles and get 30% more so total of 65,000 united miles.

Am I understanding this correctly.

Sam


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## rrazzorr (Nov 8, 2017)

Saintsfanfl said:


> The caveat to my valuation is you need to get the 5 or 7 nights and obviously be able to utilize it. Some 5 night redemptions are worth less than desirable but others are much more than 1 penny per point.



How does one get a five night package certificate? I heard that it exists but only see 7 night packages advertised on marriott.com


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## VacationForever (Nov 8, 2017)

rrazzorr said:


> How does one get a five night package certificate? I heard that it exists but only see 7 night packages advertised on marriott.com


You need to own a Marriott timeshare to be able to get a 5-night travel package.  It is exclusive to Marriott timeshare owners only.


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## VacationForever (Nov 8, 2017)

In this order: 1) SPG Amex card 2) Marriott Visa 3) Chase Sapphire Reserve.  I have all 3 cards, so using SPG Amex is a no brainer.


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## rrazzorr (Nov 8, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> You need to own a Marriott timeshare to be able to get a 5-night travel package.  It is exclusive to Marriott timeshare owners only.


Right; I heard that too. Thanks. 
Was anyone actually able to get a package?
Just trying to verify the validity of the info.


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## rrazzorr (Nov 8, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> In this order: 1) SPG Amex card 2) Marriott Visa 3) Chase Sapphire Reserve.  I have all 3 cards, so using SPG Amex is a no brainer.



Sorry; can you also elaborate why SPG is no brainer, when compared to CSR? TY


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## VacationForever (Nov 8, 2017)

rrazzorr said:


> Right; I heard that too. Thanks.
> Was anyone actually able to get a package?
> Just trying to verify the validity of the info.


I have converted 4 5-night packages todate.  This month I plan on converting another 2 5-night packages to take advantage of the United promotion.  I will be converting another 5-night package in May 2018 for Delta points.  I am not quite "The Points Guy" but pretty close to being almost as good as being "The Points Gal".


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## VacationForever (Nov 8, 2017)

rrazzorr said:


> Sorry; can you also elaborate why SPG is no brainer, when compared to CSR? TY


SPG = 2X points for SPG and Marriott timeshare.  1 SPG point = 3 MRPs.  2 SPG points = 6 MRPs.  Chase only gets you 3 Chase UR points.


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## mjm1 (Nov 9, 2017)

rrazzorr said:


> How does one get a five night package certificate? I heard that it exists but only see 7 night packages advertised on marriott.com



We have used MRP’s for at least three five night travel packages. It’s a very good deal and most beneficial use of reward points. I have always called the Rewards Program to buy the package via reward points, and I believe that is the only way to do it. 

It may have been mentioned earlier, but if not, you don’t have to use the airline miles and five night stay during the same trip.

Enjoy!

Best regards

Mike


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## jeepie (Nov 9, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> SPG = 2X points for SPG and Marriott timeshare.  1 SPG point = 3 MRPs.  2 SPG points = 6 MRPs.  Chase only gets you 3 Chase UR points.


Sigh...

A point is not a point. Look at some knowledgeable bloggers’ valuations. For example, The Points Guy:

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/october-2017-monthly-valuations/

His OPINION is MRs are worth $.009 and URs are worth $.022, or about 2-1/2 Times (hence my ballpark 2-3x stated above). And yes, I have all the cards and do buy the Marriott vacation packages. To repeat...ymmv!


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## VacationForever (Nov 9, 2017)

jeepie said:


> Sigh...
> 
> A point is not a point. Look at some knowledgeable bloggers’ valuations. For example, The Points Guy:
> 
> ...


We are talking about paying MF for Marriott timeshare.  It does not matter how much a point is valued by TPG.  What is real is that by using SPG Amex, $1 Marriott MF gives you 6 MRPs.  If you use Marriott Visa, you only get 5 MRPs.  If you use Chase, you get 3 URs. 3 URs when transferred to MRPs only give you 3 MRPs.  So SPG Amex (6 MRPs), trumps Marriott Visa (5 MRPs) which in turn trumps Chase Sapphire Reserve (3 MRPs).  Simple Math - if you want to use the points to buy Marriott travel packages.


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## jeepie (Nov 9, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> We are talking about paying MF for Marriott timeshare.  It does not matter how much a point is valued by TPG.  What is real is that by using SPG Amex, $1 Marriott MF gives you 6 MRPs.  If you use Marriott Visa, you only get 5 MRPs.  If you use Chase, you get 3 URs. 3 URs when transferred to MRPs only give you 3 MRPs.  So SPG Amex (6 MRPs), trumps Marriott Visa (5 MRPs) which in turn trumps Chase Sapphire Reserve (3 MRPs).  Simple Math - if you want to use the points to buy Marriott travel packages.


First, the OP didn’t state his objective as buying Marriott travel packages. Granted, if that is his objective, I agree with you 100%. In MY case, I pay the MFs with the CSR and use the very valuable points for high value transfer to frequent flyer programs. Oh, did I say ymmv. Peace.


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## VacationForever (Nov 9, 2017)

jeepie said:


> First, the OP didn’t state his objective as buying Marriott travel packages. Granted, if that is his objective, I agree with you 100%. In MY case, I pay the MFs with the CSR and use the very valuable points for high value transfer to frequent flyer programs. Oh, did I say ymmv. Peace.


Yes UR can give high value transfer to airlines like Singapore Airlines.  But for an airline like United, you are better off getting Marriott's 5-night package as it is equivalent to about 1 point of United miles to 1 MRP.  Unfortunately UR does not transfer to Delta as I find that Delta's mileage redemption is very reasonable unlike United's very inflated numbers.


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## Born2Travel (Nov 9, 2017)

Saintsfanfl said:


> It counts as a Marriott purchase so you get 5/$. Even slightly better is the SPG Amex which after converted to MRP gives 6/$.



Thanks for the reminder.  I have all 3 cards, but SPG Biz card is new and I need to meet minimum spend so I will use SPG.  I wasn't thinking about using that one because I always just use the Marriott card for MF.  Great timing for this thread.


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## Saintsfanfl (Nov 9, 2017)

jeepie said:


> First, the OP didn’t state his objective as buying Marriott travel packages. Granted, if that is his objective, I agree with you 100%. In MY case, I pay the MFs with the CSR and use the very valuable points for high value transfer to frequent flyer programs. Oh, did I say ymmv. Peace.



Hence why I said from the beginning that it depends on how you use them.

Even if you do not do a travel package taking your math blind of .009 vs .022 it is actually .018 vs .022 because you get 6 points with SPG and 3 only UR points with CSR. One would only need to nudge the value a little to break even or come out ahead.

If you look at it closer you could book a 5 night travel package, never even use the 5 nights, and you still come out a little better than 1:1 miles when compared to UR. This is of course assuming 6 points per dollar on the maintenance fee spending.


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## bazzap (Nov 9, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> You need to own a Marriott timeshare to be able to get a 5-night travel package.  It is exclusive to Marriott timeshare owners only.


And if you are an Owner, you can sign in and see it here
https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials


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## jeepie (Nov 9, 2017)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Hence why I said from the beginning that it depends on how you use them.
> 
> Even if you do not do a travel package taking your math blind of .009 vs .022 it is actually .018 vs .022 because you get 6 points with SPG and 3 only UR points with CSR. One would only need to nudge the value a little to break even or come out ahead.
> 
> If you look at it closer you could book a 5 night travel package, never even use the 5 nights, and you still come out a little better than 1:1 miles when compared to UR. This is of course assuming 6 points per dollar on the maintenance fee spending.


Not sure I follow the “math blind” so here is how I look at it:

MR: 5x@.09=$.045
SPG: 2x@.027=$.054
UR: 3x@.022=$.066

Analyses comparing the “best” use of MRs vs. the assumed value of URs are incomplete and misleading, imho. Reasonable people can differ and it really does depend on one’s travel objectives, minimum spend, favorite Airlines, etc...Aloha.


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## Saintsfanfl (Nov 9, 2017)

jeepie said:


> Not sure I follow the “math blind” so here is how I look at it:
> 
> MR: 5x@.09=$.045
> SPG: 2x@.027=$.054
> ...



The issue is your assumption that MR equals .09 per point. That is the blind math I was referring to. Both MR and UR can be more valuable than your assumptions. Again it all depends on how someone uses them. If one is taking advantage of a 5-night travel package then it is a no-brainer, which you agreed.

It is a waste of time using someone else's assumption on the value of a point. Each individual can simply calculate their own based on their use.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 9, 2017)

rrazzorr said:


> How does one get a five night package certificate? I heard that it exists but only see 7 night packages advertised on marriott.com





VacationForever said:


> You need to own a Marriott timeshare to be able to get a 5-night travel package.  It is exclusive to Marriott timeshare owners only.





rrazzorr said:


> Right; I heard that too. Thanks.
> Was anyone actually able to get a package?
> Just trying to verify the validity of the info.





bazzap said:


> And if you are an Owner, you can sign in and see it here
> https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/marriottRewardsOwnerSpecials



I know there's a long thread on PointsGuy where people question the validity of the 5-Night TP's for timeshare owners (and many PG members have done anything and everything to try to get them as non-owners,) but it's very odd to me that someone would question it here.  This is an ownership benefit that's been around for ages with many TUGgers successfully ordering them.

In my experience the Owner Services reps are also able to process these, although it's been a few years so I don't know if it's now required to order them via a Marriott Rewards rep.


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## VacationForever (Nov 9, 2017)

samara64 said:


> Well, my wife just got the Marriott card and we have to spend $3,000 to get the 80K. So best value would be MF for sure at 5/$1
> 
> I was thinking to spend $5,000 for MF to get 112,000 MRP (80,000 + 25,000 + 7500 (adl. user bonus)) . Transfer these to United for 50,000 miles and get 30% more so total of 65,000 united miles.
> 
> ...


If you have the ability to accumulate more MRPs or transfer from a card like Chase to MRPs, and I see that you own at Marriott, at 235K MRPs, it will net you 132K United Miles plus 5 nights stay at cat 1-5 hotel (we normally book Cat 9 at 345K or Cat 8 at 300K).  With the current United promotion, you get 157K instead of 132K.  If you are only using the Marriott card now and do not already have the MRPs, you may not be in time to make use of the United promotion of 30% bump up to a max of 25K United miles as the deadline is on Nov 30th 2017.  The credit card monthly bill needs to close before you get those points in your MRP account, and even then it takes several days after the close.

I prepaid my Vistana and Marriott MF last month because of the United promotion so that when my SPG card closed (yesterday), those points were captured as I am needing as many MRPs as I can to make it for the United promotion.  I try not to touch my Chase UR points for this as it is a good place to hold the points and move them to whichever point system as needed.  Looking at it right now, I will be able to get 2 full Marriott 5-night packages within a week.


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## VacationForever (Nov 9, 2017)

SueDonJ said:


> In my experience the Owner Services reps are also able to process these, although it's been a few years so I don't know if it's now required to order them via a Marriott Rewards rep.



I had called owner services for several of the packages, the reps did them without issue, and then the last time when I called, the Owner Services rep said she could not do it and transferred me to a Marriott Rewards rep and the MR rep did it.  I do not know if Marriott streamlined their operations for travel packages.


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## Quilter (Nov 9, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Yes UR can give high value transfer to airlines like Singapore Airlines.  But for an airline like United, you are better off getting Marriott's 5-night package as it is equivalent to about 1 point of United miles to 1 MRP.  Unfortunately UR does not transfer to Delta as I find that Delta's mileage redemption is very reasonable unlike United's very inflated numbers.



Can you give details how the travel package gives you an equivalent of 1:1 for United miles?

I think my last travel package cost 235K MRP.  If I subtract the miles (120K) it would seem I'm still paying 115K for 5 nights at the hotel.   I agree that the miles portion is a good deal, but you're also committing a chunk of points for a hotel stay.

Do you have Marriott convert the hotel certificate back into points?


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## VacationForever (Nov 9, 2017)

Quilter said:


> Can you give details how the travel package gives you an equivalent of 1:1 for United miles?
> 
> I think my last travel package cost 235K MRP.  If I subtract the miles (120K) it would seem I'm still paying 115K for 5 nights at the hotel.   I agree that the miles portion is a good deal, but you're also committing a chunk of points for a hotel stay.
> 
> Do you have Marriott convert the hotel certificate back into points?



With United, the normal conversion on the 235K package is 132K, not 120K.  When you subtract 132K United miles from 235K MRPs, you are getting a 5-night stay at a Marriott Cat 1-5 hotel for 103K MRPs, which brings to about 20K per night and roughly $200 per night including taxes.  Right now the promotion gets better, for 235K MRPs, you get 157K United miles, which now brings you to 78K MRPs for 5 nights, which is 15.6K per night... roughly $156 per night including taxes.  I would say it depends on the hotel, many are closer to the $156 than the $200 per night for Cat 1-5.

I personally prefer the conversion to Delta even though it only nets 120K but Delta also requires much fewer miles for their business class.  However, United flights are more direct to/from Asia and our trip for the 2 of us in Dec 2018 will cost us 720K United miles round trip.  I cringe whenever I think about it but that's what our conversion next week will help us towards that number.  I already have 360K+ miles in my United account. We fly DeltaOne to/from Europe and United Polaris to/from Asia.  With Delta, I can normally get 160-200K round trip per person, bringing to 320K to 400K for the 2 of us.

I do not convert the hotel portion of the points back to MRP.  I just try to use them.  For instance, in Dec 2018, we had initially planned to only use a 5-night stay in Singapore (Cat 8), and use points (UR points) in Hong Kong for 3 nights.  But since we need the extra miles for our United account, we sucked it up and decided to convert a 2nd 5-night package for our stay in Hong Kong (Cat 9) and make that a 5-night stay.  We will be on a cruise from Singapore to Hong Kong and plan to use the hotel nights to add on to our trip.


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## l0410z (Nov 9, 2017)

The Chase Sapphire Reserve will get you 3 percent back when used for MF's.  My MF is 3800 so 3 percent back gets me $114.  When used for travel this goes 1.5 more or becomes $171.  I am not including the 300 credit that goes towards the card fee because I would earn that credit during the year anyway.  My MR signature card gets 5X 3800 or 19,000 MRP.   I will take  the $171 used for travel.


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## Saintsfanfl (Nov 9, 2017)

l0410z said:


> The Chase Sapphire Reserve will get you 3 percent back when used for MF's.  My MF is 3800 so 3 percent back gets me $114.  When used for travel this goes 1.5 more or becomes $171.  I am not including the 300 credit that goes towards the card fee because I would earn that credit during the year anyway.  My MR signature card gets 5X 3800 or 19,000 MRP.   I will take  the $171 used for travel.



A $171 travel voucher or 19,000-25,000 airline miles. Again it all depends on how you plan to utilize. Some people fly first class to Asia and some never fly at all.


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## samara64 (Nov 9, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> If you have the ability to accumulate more MRPs or transfer from a card like Chase to MRPs, and I see that you own at Marriott, at 235K MRPs, it will net you 132K United Miles plus 5 nights stay at cat 1-5 hotel (we normally book Cat 9 at 345K or Cat 8 at 300K).  With the current United promotion, you get 157K instead of 132K.  If you are only using the Marriott card now and do not already have the MRPs, you may not be in time to make use of the United promotion of 30% bump up to a max of 25K United miles as the deadline is on Nov 30th 2017.  The credit card monthly bill needs to close before you get those points in your MRP account, and even then it takes several days after the close.
> 
> I prepaid my Vistana and Marriott MF last month because of the United promotion so that when my SPG card closed (yesterday), those points were captured as I am needing as many MRPs as I can to make it for the United promotion.  I try not to touch my Chase UR points for this as it is a good place to hold the points and move them to whichever point system as needed.  Looking at it right now, I will be able to get 2 full Marriott 5-night packages within a week.



Actually we should have it before Nov 30 as card closes Nov 12 but we will wait. I just applied for SPG card and it should be here soon. We should have the 235,000 points in no time. We will use it in Europe in 2019.
We will wait until United has a promo like it and do the transfer. Have tons of miles (over 1 Mil in UR alone) so not in a hurry at all. Will transfer from UR if needed only as I do not think it is a good ratio.

Thanks all for the great advice and feedback.


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## l0410z (Nov 9, 2017)

Saintsfanfl said:


> A $171 travel voucher or 19,000-25,000 airline miles. Again it all depends on how you plan to utilize. Some people fly first class to Asia and some never fly at all.



I missed something..... you get 1 for 1 MRP to airline reward points or better yet you are getting 1.3 airline miles for every 1 MRP.  You take  that 19000 (or 25000) points and fly first class to Asia with that.  I will tell you what... I have 400K MRP ..you get me 20 to 16 first class tickets to Asia and I will not only give you 4, I will stop taking greyhound  with my 171 when I travel and and maybe start flying.  Who Knew.


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## VacationForever (Nov 9, 2017)

l0410z said:


> I missed something..... you get 1 for 1 MRP to airline reward points or better yet you are getting 1.3 airline miles for every 1 MRP.  You take  that 19000 (or 25000) points and fly first class to Asia with that.  I will tell you what... I have 400K MRP ..you get me 20 to 16 first class tickets to Asia and I will not only give you 4, I will stop taking greyhound  with my 171 when I travel and and maybe start flying.  Who Knew.


Now you are just are being ridiculous.  What Saintsfanfl was referring to is that for folks like me, every MRP counts towards helping me get the travel packages.  I have 2 round trip DeltaOne tickets for my Europe trip in April 2018 and will have 2 round trip United Polaris tickets in Dec 2018 for my Asia trip.  Small amount of cash does not get me those tickets.  Accumulation of various credit card points, airline points and hotel points get me there.  I am also putting in my plan to get us the DeltaOne tickets back from Europe in April 2019 - we are cruising to Europe from the US.


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## l0410z (Nov 9, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Now you are just are being ridiculous.  What Saintsfanfl was referring to is that for folks like me, every MRP counts towards helping me get the travel packages.  I have 2 round trip DeltaOne tickets for my Europe trip in April 2018 and will have 2 round trip United Polaris tickets in Dec 2018 for my Asia trip.  Small amount of cash does not get me those tickets.  Accumulation of various credit card points, airline points and hotel points get me there.  I am also putting in my plan to get us the DeltaOne tickets back from Europe in April 2019 - we are cruising to Europe from the US.



While I will agree with  "it all depends on how you plan to utilize"  after my quote, not sure I appreciated "Some people fly first class to Asia and some never fly at all".    Today has been a tough day, so maybe it touched a nerve and yes I was purposely  being ridiculous. 

I had my reservation from Feb 19th the 24th cancelled at the Ritz Carlton in San Juan cancelled last month for obvious reasons.  With my work discount the cost per night was coincidentally 170 per night, government tax 22.07 and resort fee of 30.60. The room rate would have been over 600 a night plus tax and fees.  If you do the math each 3800 in MF got me a 600 room.      I will gladly send anyone the confirmation email that validates the 170 per night  if they private message me their email address.  I was taking Southwest utilizing the companion pass.  So with the 100,000 points for for getting the reserve card ($1000 or $1500 used for traveling) and the southwest points from the travel package, travel cash is king for me.   In 2017, It funded 4 RT tickets to Aruba, 2 RT tickets to Punta Cana, 2 RT tickets to New Mexico, 2 RT to Florida for December Key West trip  (cancelled)  and until cancelled, San Juan.   All documented in posts this year.    

If you look I have posts discussing a 7 night travel package to Barcelona in 2016 when AA was offering a bonus and a  5 day travel package this year to get the Southwest companion pass.  I even discussed what the $ value of the packages were worth.   I referenced in a post  a 2001  travel package Marriott had that included 4 round trip tickets anywhere in the world AA flew.      So there are many tools we all have to try and accomplish what we are looking to accomplish at any given point in time and often it changes.  It all  depends on how you plan to utilize it.


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## Quilter (Nov 10, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> With United, the normal conversion on the 235K package is 132K, not 120K.  When you subtract 132K United miles from 235K MRPs, you are getting a 5-night stay at a Marriott Cat 1-5 hotel for 103K MRPs, which brings to about 20K per night and roughly $200 per night including taxes.  Right now the promotion gets better, for 235K MRPs, you get 157K United miles, which now brings you to 78K MRPs for 5 nights, which is 15.6K per night... roughly $156 per night including taxes.  I would say it depends on the hotel, many are closer to the $156 than the $200 per night for Cat 1-5.
> 
> I personally prefer the conversion to Delta even though it only nets 120K but Delta also requires much fewer miles for their business class.  However, United flights are more direct to/from Asia and our trip for the 2 of us in Dec 2018 will cost us 720K United miles round trip.  I cringe whenever I think about it but that's what our conversion next week will help us towards that number.  I already have 360K+ miles in my United account. We fly DeltaOne to/from Europe and United Polaris to/from Asia.  With Delta, I can normally get 160-200K round trip per person, bringing to 320K to 400K for the 2 of us.
> 
> I do not convert the hotel portion of the points back to MRP.  I just try to use them.  For instance, in Dec 2018, we had initially planned to only use a 5-night stay in Singapore (Cat 8), and use points (UR points) in Hong Kong for 3 nights.  But since we need the extra miles for our United account, we sucked it up and decided to convert a 2nd 5-night package for our stay in Hong Kong (Cat 9) and make that a 5-night stay.  We will be on a cruise from Singapore to Hong Kong and plan to use the hotel nights to add on to our trip.



We live close to DTW so it would seem Delta would be my first choice in airlines.   However, I've had the opposite experience as you and most of the time the Delta flights I've looked for have the highest requirement for miles.  Your post peaked my interest.   

Asia isn't one of our destinations.  Business class to Europe is our primary use of miles.   I have found that using UA miles for Lufthansa flights to be a decent option (when there are no strikes).  70K for Business class one way.  

I tried doing a trial purchase to compare Delta to United.  DTW-VCE.   I couldn't find business class on Delta.   Does Delta call their Business Class by another name?

While I generally dump my travel package miles in either United or AA, this past March I got the Southwest package to get the Companion Pass.

Travel packages have worked well for us.  However, in order to get the airline miles bargain, you do need to commit a chunk of MRP to a hotel stay.   in 2000 we began with the higher end hotels.   The Champs Elysee was a Cat. 6 at that time.   As hotel points inflated we changed our search to properties in lower categories.   In the most recent years we have favorite Cat. 6 properties.


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## VacationForever (Nov 10, 2017)

Quilter said:


> We live close to DTW so it would seem Delta would be my first choice in airlines.   However, I've had the opposite experience as you and most of the time the Delta flights I've looked for have the highest requirement for miles.  Your post peaked my interest.
> 
> Asia isn't one of our destinations.  Business class to Europe is our primary use of miles.   I have found that using UA miles for Lufthansa flights to be a decent option (when there are no strikes).  70K for Business class one way.
> 
> ...


If you go to Delta website directly, you can check off award flights and business class it should return the results to you.  Business class is called DeltaOne.


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## kds4 (Nov 10, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> If you have the ability to accumulate more MRPs or transfer from a card like Chase to MRPs, and I see that you own at Marriott, at 235K MRPs, it will net you 132K United Miles plus 5 nights stay at cat 1-5 hotel (we normally book Cat 9 at 345K or Cat 8 at 300K).  With the current United promotion, you get 157K instead of 132K.  If you are only using the Marriott card now and do not already have the MRPs, you may not be in time to make use of the United promotion of 30% bump up to a max of 25K United miles as the deadline is on Nov 30th 2017.  The credit card monthly bill needs to close before you get those points in your MRP account, and even then it takes several days after the close.
> 
> I prepaid my Vistana and Marriott MF last month because of the United promotion so that when my SPG card closed (yesterday), those points were captured as I am needing as many MRPs as I can to make it for the United promotion.  I try not to touch my Chase UR points for this as it is a good place to hold the points and move them to whichever point system as needed.  Looking at it right now, I will be able to get 2 full Marriott 5-night packages within a week.


Where can I find the details of the current United promotion you refer to above (that is ending on 11/30/17)?


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## VacationForever (Nov 10, 2017)

kds4 said:


> Where can I find the details of the current United promotion you refer to above (that is ending on 11/30/17)?


https://promotions.united.com/offers/p2m


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## kds4 (Nov 10, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> https://promotions.united.com/offers/p2m


Thanks. Can you get this bonus with redeeming a travel package or is it restricted to direct points to miles redemptions at this website only? If you can get this bonus with a travel package, that would be pretty appealing.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 10, 2017)

kds4 said:


> Thanks. Can you get this bonus with redeeming a travel package or is it restricted to direct points to miles redemptions at this website only? If you can get this bonus with a travel package, that would be pretty appealing.


I'm hoping so. Usually they do but sometimes they don't. I'll let you know when they hit my account. It's been a week since I did 3 travel packages for 396k United miles and haven't seen the extra 25k miles yet. I think it does say miles will post by January.


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## VacationForever (Nov 10, 2017)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm hoping so. Usually they do but sometimes they don't. I'll let you know when they hit my account. It's been a week since I did 3 travel packages for 396k United miles and haven't seen the extra 25k miles yet. I think it does say miles will post by January.


Please do report back.  I am travelling this week and somewhat busy and I intend to call in to convert 2 packages next week when I am back.


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## jeepie (Nov 10, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Please do report back.  I am travelling this week and somewhat busy and I intend to call in to convert 2 packages next week when I am back.


From the Terms and Conditions:
(d) Bonus Miles will be credited into the member's account on or before January 30, 2018.


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## kds4 (Nov 10, 2017)

jeepie said:


> From the Terms and Conditions:
> (d) Bonus Miles will be credited into the member's account on or before January 30, 2018.



I seem to recall some people having posted that miles were showing up in their accounts very quickly. However, I cannot recall if that was just the base miles for the travel package or bonus miles as well.


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## VacationForever (Nov 10, 2017)

kds4 said:


> I seem to recall some people having posted that miles were showing up in their accounts very quickly. However, I cannot recall if that was just the base miles for the travel package or bonus miles as well.


I was whoring (LOL!!!) for more United miles recently and got an United Chase card (again) and spent 3K on it the first month and the bonus showed up immediately.  We will see about this one.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 11, 2017)

Quilter said:


> We live close to DTW so it would seem Delta would be my first choice in airlines.   However, I've had the opposite experience as you and most of the time the Delta flights I've looked for have the highest requirement for miles.


My experience has been the same as yours, with Delta having much higher mileage requirements and more limited availability.  We used to live in the Twin Cities (a large Delta hub) and now we are not near a hub.  It was the same in both places and we have essentially quit trying to use them.  We still have 75,000 Delta miles remaining and when we burn them I doubt I will ever fly this airline again.  Our experiences have been so much better with American, United and Southwest that there is really no comparison.


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## VacationForever (Nov 11, 2017)

Maybe it is a East Coast (or mid-west) vs. West Coast thing?  United requires 150K each way to Europe (they may have increased further when they adjusted everything upwards on Nov 1 2017) for Polaris class, 180K each way to Asia. 

Delta requires 70K to 110K on DeltaOne for one way to/from Europe.  So I can get a round trip business class on Delta for 1-way ticket on United.


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## jeepie (Nov 11, 2017)

kds4 said:


> I seem to recall some people having posted that miles were showing up in their accounts very quickly. However, I cannot recall if that was just the base miles for the travel package or bonus miles as well.


My last travel package, earlier this month, resulted in the 132,000 United miles posting in 48 hours (a bit faster than advertised). I expect the 25,000 additional miles before the end of January.


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## rrazzorr (Nov 14, 2017)

As an update, last week I converted 250K MRP for a Category 6 five-night certificate and 120K Delta SkyMiles; hotel certificate posted to my account instantly, Delta SkyMiles posted on the following day. I had a bit of a run-around, when I called Marriott Reservations line they referred me to MVCI Representative, which in turn pointed me to Marriott Rewards line; Marriott Rewards specialist was able to do this fairly quickly.
Hotel certificate expires one year after it has been issued. This is an excellent deal.


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## rrazzorr (Nov 14, 2017)

SueDonJ said:


> I know there's a long thread on PointsGuy where people question the validity of the 5-Night TP's for timeshare owners (and many PG members have done anything and everything to try to get them as non-owners,) but it's very odd to me that someone would question it here. This is an ownership benefit that's been around for ages with many TUGgers successfully ordering them.
> 
> In my experience the Owner Services reps are also able to process these, although it's been a few years so I don't know if it's now required to order them via a Marriott Rewards rep.



Why is it odd; I've never done this conversion in the past, now that I've acquired enough points and started researching the topic it has come to my attention (via TPG) that an MVCI owner can claim a five-night certificate (instead of widely advertised seven-night package, so naturally, I turned to MVCI owners for additional info.

PS: Owner Services reps are not able to process these, it had to be done through a Marriott Rewards department.


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## ArubaOwnsRoytman (Dec 1, 2017)

rrazzorr said:


> Why is it odd; I've never done this conversion in the past, now that I've acquired enough points and started researching the topic it has come to my attention (via TPG) that an MVCI owner can claim a five-night certificate (instead of widely advertised seven-night package, so naturally, I turned to MVCI owners for additional info.
> 
> PS: Owner Services reps are not able to process these, it had to be done through a Marriott Rewards department.



PS: These 5 night owner exclusive category specific travel packages are most definitely processed daily by competent advisors at Owner Services.


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## ArubaOwnsRoytman (Dec 2, 2017)

rrazzorr said:


> As an update, last week I converted 250K MRP for a Category 6 five-night certificate and 120K Delta SkyMiles; hotel certificate posted to my account instantly, Delta SkyMiles posted on the following day. I had a bit of a run-around, when I called Marriott Reservations line they referred me to MVCI Representative, which in turn pointed me to Marriott Rewards line; Marriott Rewards specialist was able to do this fairly quickly.
> Hotel certificate expires one year after it has been issued. This is an excellent deal.



The hotel portion of the certificate says one year but will actually never expire. Marriott rewards will extend these as many times as needed at no additional cost.


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## bazzap (Dec 2, 2017)

ArubaOwnsRoytman said:


> The hotel portion of the certificate says one year but will actually never expire. Marriott rewards will extend these as many times as needed at no additional cost.


They may do, but there is no guarantee and it would be rather risky to depend on this.
My personal experience is that I have extended for one year on a number of occasions and for two years on one occasion when I did need to speak to a supervisor who said they would agree to do it as an exception.
They certainly have no obligation to do so, even if they generally do.


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## Saintsfanfl (Dec 2, 2017)

I agree. When I extended mine it took so long to get the approval that it did not give me any confidence that I could do it indefinitely.


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## pedro47 (Dec 2, 2017)

We have only two (2) credit cards and needed are Marriott credit cards. We have been given/offer some excellent incentives lately from Marriott and Ritz Carlton to open a credit card.
Should we try it.  Please share your advice good & negative. Thanks a very frugal senior citizen.


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## jeepie (Dec 2, 2017)

pedro47 said:


> We have only two (2) credit cards and needed are Marriott credit cards. We have been given/offer some excellent incentives lately from Marriott and Ritz Carlton to open a credit card.
> Should we try it.  Please share your advice good & negative. Thanks a very frugal senior citizen.


Since Marriott bought Starwood, I suggest you also consider the SPG AmEx. They offer, in essence, the same points because once you set up and link your Marriott Rewards and SPG accounts, the points are freely interchangeable at a ratio of one SPG point=three MR points. Most knowledgeable observers suggest using the SPG card over the other two (except in special situations such as Ritz stays with free club lounge access), as long as the merchant accepts AmEx. I have all three cards btw. I rarely put “spend” on the Marriott or Ritz cards though. Finally, keep in mind the programs are expected to merge in 2019 and nobody knows what will happen then. Happy travels. Cheers.


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## samara64 (Dec 2, 2017)

We did just that. Opened 2 x Marriott and SPG Amex. You can make close to 360,000 MRP on the spot if you do it right.


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## pedro47 (Dec 2, 2017)

Thanks samara64 & jeepie for your suggestions.


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 2, 2017)

samara64 said:


> We did just that. Opened 2 x Marriott and SPG Amex. You can make close to 360,000 MRP on the spot if you do it right.


I tell so many people how to do this. It's easily a $4500 value in my estimation.


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## WBP (Dec 2, 2017)

Hopefully, neither Marriott or JP Morgan Chase force the Starwood Preferred Guest American Express card to extinction. It is conceivable that if JP Morgan Chase has or negotiates an "exclusive" credit card arrangement with Marriott, that Marriott or JP Morgan Chase could force the SPG American Express card to extinction. And hopefully, American Express doesn't blow it, as they or Costco did with Costco warehouses, and the Costco American Express card.

In my experience, the Starwood Preferred Guest program, and American Express, represents the best of both worlds.

I don't know this for a fact, but I'd speculate that whatever bank or lending institution backed the Marriott Rewards credit card, at the time, forced Marriott to withdraw from American Express' Membership Rewards program - - another loss to Marriott Rewards members.

It seems to me that Marriott will continue to use every opportunity they have to "Spin Sell" the Marriott Rewards program. That represents a whole lotta spinning.


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 2, 2017)

WJS said:


> In my experience, the Starwood Preferred Guest program, and American Express, represents the best of both worlds


Please tell me why you think this is so? Better than the value from a Marriott travel package?  I know someone said SPG has travel packages. Can someone do a value comparison?  Always looking for the best value out there.


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## dima (Dec 3, 2017)

if I understand this right, SPG card brings 1 more MR point on spending then Marriott Visa CC.
But what I value with MR card is that it has yearly free night certificate.
So, it really depends on how much you spend on particular credit car within Marriott and Starwood system. If one spends a lot, probably SPG card is better, if not much, MR card might work better.
Please correct me or suggest your ideas for getting more value from each card.


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## pedro47 (Dec 3, 2017)

I liked the yearly free night certificate idea.


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## m61376 (Dec 3, 2017)

Joe- I'd love a breakdown on the cards. We've been using the Marriott Visa, but I'm surmising that we may do better with the SPG card? I'd appreciate the info.


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## MOXJO7282 (Dec 3, 2017)

Well until the SPG ends the 3 to 1 exchange to MAR points it a no brainer to use the SPG as much as possible and there really isn't a need to use the Marriott Visa at all until they stop the 3 for 1.  Even for Marriott MFs, using the SPG you get SPG 2 points per dollar on Marriott spend then that 3 to 1 conversion to MAR points gives you the 6 points per dollar vs the 5 points that you get for the Marriott Visa.


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## samara64 (Dec 3, 2017)

By the way, can we transfer SPG points from one account to the other. I know we can do it with Marriott up to 50K per year.

P.S. I think I see it under Give Starpoints. Works if both share same address so only for Family members which is fine.


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## VacationForever (Dec 3, 2017)

samara64 said:


> By the way, can we transfer SPG points from one account to the other. I know we can do it with Marriott up to 50K per year.
> 
> P.S. I think I see it under Give Starpoints. Works if both share same address so only for Family members which is fine.


Yes we do that regularly with my husband's SPG account and mine.


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## Saintsfanfl (Dec 4, 2017)

The only possible exception with using Marriott Visa vs SPG is lifetime points accumulation. The points stay as SPG accumulation when if you transfer them to Marriott. I am not sure if we know that the SPG points will eventually count towards Marriott lifetime points. SPG does not use total points for lifetime status. I still use the SPG but if someone was close or wanted to make sure they are accumulating Marriott lifetime it is worth considering.


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## Quilter (Dec 4, 2017)

I'm pondering the credit cards we have.  I'd appreciate any insight.

SPG was good when we got it earlier this year because of the high sign up bonus (35K).   It's downfalls are it doesn't give a free night to offset the annual fee and doesn't have a wide range of bonus categories.  Besides m/f's and incidentals we rarely pay for a night at SPG or Marriott hotels.   On the one occasion this year where I had a significant charge at a Renaissance I pulled out the MR Visa by habit.   It wasn't until I was doing some reading on TUG that I realized I should have used the SPG AmEx.

Bottom line:  Because it doesn't get high bonus on everyday spend my annual spend on the card is low relative to others.   

The MR is good for the annual night certificate.   I can't see any other benefit.

For most of our everyday spend we use  cards with bonus categories.   These can be shuffled through various ways to combine with SPG or MR, besides other airline accounts.

Those include Chase Sapphire Reserve (restaurants; travel), Freedom (bonus categories),  Southwest and Hyatt (free night) and the American Express Everyday (grocery which can be 4.5 pts with the 50% bonus for 30 transactions) and Hilton Surpass (grocery, gas).

AmEx just let me know the Hilton card is getting an increase on annual fee.   Will possibly downgrade that to the no fee card.


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## jeepie (Dec 4, 2017)

Quilter said:


> I'm pondering the credit cards we have.  I'd appreciate any insight.
> 
> SPG was good when we got it earlier this year because of the high sign up bonus (35K).   It's downfalls are it doesn't give a free night to offset the annual fee and doesn't have a wide range of bonus categories.  Besides m/f's and incidentals we rarely pay for a night at SPG or Marriott hotels.   On the one occasion this year where I had a significant charge at a Renaissance I pulled out the MR Visa by habit.   It wasn't until I was doing some reading on TUG that I realized I should have used the SPG AmEx.
> 
> ...


I have most of the same cards, and now Pay MFs and Marriott stays with the Chase Sapphire Reserve (although I often use the Citi Prestige for 4 night stays). For me, having waaay too many Marriott Rewards points already, I now am building up my Ultimate Rewards balance. I will be planning some international travel and want as much flexibility as possible, fwiw. Everyone’s situation is unique. Cheers.


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## Eli Mairs (Dec 4, 2017)

Quilter said:


> I'm pondering the credit cards we have.  I'd appreciate any insight.
> 
> SPG was good when we got it earlier this year because of the high sign up bonus (35K).   It's downfalls are it doesn't give a free night to offset the annual fee




We have a Canadian SPG Amex card and receive a free night annually after spending $40,000.
With our cruises and other travels, we have no difficulty spending more than that amount.
We also have a Chase Marriott Visa card which we use for Marriott stays, maintenance fees and international spending, as it does not have foreign transaction fees.


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## Steve A (Dec 4, 2017)

Also the SPG card trades 1 to 1 for many airline miles. MR doesn't.  And if you transfer 20,000 Starwood points to an airline, I did this with AA, you get an extra 5,000 airline miles. At the time I did it AA added another 5,000 frequent flyer miles. So 20,000 SPG points equaled 30,000 AA ff miles. 

I'm working on getting enough ff miles to fly business/1st class to London. I already have 430,000 MR points for the hotels. Starwood hotels require more points that Marriotts and I don't thing the difference is justified by the value.


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## rrazzorr (Dec 4, 2017)

Quilter said:


> The MR is good for the annual night certificate. I can't see any other benefit.



it is also good when you're chasing status and you need those annual anniversary 15 nights.


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## Quilter (Dec 4, 2017)

Steve A said:


> Also the SPG card trades 1 to 1 for many airline miles. MR doesn't.  And if you transfer 20,000 Starwood points to an airline, I did this with AA, you get an extra 5,000 airline miles. At the time I did it AA added another 5,000 frequent flyer miles. So 20,000 SPG points equaled 30,000 AA ff miles.
> 
> I'm working on getting enough ff miles to fly business/1st class to London. I already have 430,000 MR points for the hotels. Starwood hotels require more points that Marriotts and I don't thing the difference is justified by the value.



I've gotten good value when booking spg hotels with cash and points.


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## Quilter (Dec 4, 2017)

rrazzorr said:


> it is also good when you're chasing status and you need those annual anniversary 15 nights.



Thanks.   We did that for years.  Now both Lifetime Platinum.


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## Steve A (Dec 4, 2017)

Quilter:

I'm thinking of the level 9 Marriott hotels in London booked solely with points. They're pretty high end and well located. The Starwood hotels may be great but why pay extra for them?


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## Fasttr (Dec 4, 2017)

Steve A said:


> I'm thinking of the level 9 Marriott hotels in London booked solely with points. They're pretty high end and well located. The Starwood hotels may be great but why pay extra for them?


We stayed at the Marriott County Hall this summer...great hotel and great location.  A perfect spot from which to explore London.  As for airline and hotel points, have you considered a travel package combining both....these usually allow you to transfer airline points in a 1:1 (for a 7 night, or close to a 1:1 for a 5 night) ratio.


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## Steve A (Dec 4, 2017)

The 120,000 ff miles that come with the 7 day will not be enough for business/1st. Even with the 120,000 in aa ff I have, I'll still need more for a summer trip for two.

Our favorite London Marriott is the Park Lane. I know most prefer other level 9s, but but it's smaller hotel with a great location.


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## VacationForever (Dec 4, 2017)

Steve A said:


> The 120,000 ff miles that come with the 7 day will not be enough for business/1st. Even with the 120,000 in aa ff I have, I'll still need more for a summer trip for two.
> 
> Our favorite London Marriott is the Park Lane. I know most prefer other level 9s, but but it's smaller hotel with a great location.



I try to book 5-night travel packages as much as I can but I always need more miles than nights.  The way I make up the difference is either transfer from other credit card points if they transfer to that particular airline and if not, I bite the bullet and transfer SPG points directly to airline miles.


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## WBP (Dec 5, 2017)

WJS said:


> Hopefully, neither Marriott or JP Morgan Chase force the Starwood Preferred Guest American Express card to extinction. It is conceivable that if JP Morgan Chase has or negotiates an "exclusive" credit card arrangement with Marriott, that Marriott or JP Morgan Chase could force the SPG American Express card to extinction. And hopefully, American Express doesn't blow it, as they or Costco did with Costco warehouses, and the Costco American Express card.
> 
> In my experience, the Starwood Preferred Guest program, and American Express, represents the best of both worlds.
> 
> ...




Marriott comes through!

Nice to see today's news that Marriott has renewed their existing relationships with BOTH JP Morgan Chase AND American Express for their co-branded credit cards. 

http://news.marriott.com/2017/12/ma...d-agreements-jpmorgan-chase-american-express/

The door is wide open for changes in 2018, as it relates to Marriott's co-branded credit cards (inclusive of American Express SPG), and there is a rather peculiar reference to ".....enhanced member benefits – super-premium consumer and small business co-branded products from American Express and mass consumer and premium consumer co-branded products from JPMorgan Chase." I'm not sure what that reference may be to a "super-premium consumer" co-branded product from American Express. The first thought that crossed my mind is a new American Express SPG card with benefits, and an Annual Fee, like the American Express Platinum card.

In any case, it's nice to see that American Express is still in, and that neither Marriott or JP Morgan Chase opted to negotiate American Express out.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 5, 2017)

Based on the statement above, it seems that perhaps the AE card will be targeted to those willing to perhaps pay a huge annual fee? Like those with a fee of $450 that come with a lot of added perks? AE will go after "Super Premium" and "Business" and Chase will go after "Premium" and "Consumer". Not sure what all that means, but they must have negotiated that they can't really target the same market?


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## WBP (Dec 5, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Based on the statement above, it seems that perhaps the AE card will be targeted to those willing to perhaps pay a huge annual fee? Like those with a fee of $450 that come with a lot of added perks? AE will go after "Super Premium" and "Business" and Chase will go after "Premium" and "Consumer". Not sure what all that means, but they must have negotiated that they can't really target the same market?



Very astute observation. They seem to have segregated markets and products to avoid duplication/competition, and turned to American Express for what may be a luxury-tier offering. If AE models their Marriott/Starwood credit card(s) off of the AE Platinum and Centurion cards, that gives cardholders many perks, including AE's network of airport lounges, and growing network of AE branded airport Centurion Lounges.


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## Quilter (Dec 5, 2017)

Steve A said:


> Quilter:
> 
> I'm thinking of the level 9 Marriott hotels in London booked solely with points. They're pretty high end and well located. The Starwood hotels may be great but why pay extra for them?



When I booked at the Grand Salzburg the cash and points was less points than strictly points.   I'm having difficulty logging into the spg website so I can't give an example.  As I remember it the points increased because of the season when using points only but it was a basic category rate if using cash and points.   Years ago I found that spg cash and points worked well for me in Rome and Florence at the Westin's.   The rate in Rome was better than what I could get at the Marriott down the street.


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## jeepie (Dec 5, 2017)

WJS said:


> Very astute observation. They seem to have segregated markets and products to avoid duplication/competition, and turned to American Express for what may be a luxury-tier offering. If AE models their Marriott/Starwood credit card(s) off of the AE Platinum and Centurion cards, that gives cardholders many perks, including AE's network of airport lounges, and growing network of AE branded airport Centurion Lounges.


(Apologies if I’m contributing to this thread veering off topic. Mod, feel free to move it or start a new thread).
I’m thinking AmEx will model their Super Premium Card after their new Hilton Card, with some tweaks, of course. From AmEx:
“Frequent travelers seeking premium services and elevated experiences will find the *Hilton Honors American Express Aspire Card* is their complete travel partner - providing instant Diamond status, lounge access, airline credits, free nights and 24/7 concierge access. This new Card offers the richest Hilton Honors earn rate ever. The full benefits include:


14X Hilton Honors Bonus Points at hotels and resorts in the Hilton portfolio worldwide 
7X Hilton Honors Bonus Points on flights booked directly with airlines or amextravel.com, car rentals booked directly from select car rental companies and at U.S. restaurants
3X Hilton Honors Bonus Points on other purchases
Complimentary Hilton Honors Diamond status 
One Weekend Night Reward at a hotel or resort in the Hilton portfolio with your new Card and each year of Card Membership
A second Weekend Night Reward at a hotel or resort in the Hilton portfolio after spending $60,000 in purchases on the Card in a calendar year 
Unlimited Priority Pass™Lounge passes to ease the airport experience
$250 Airline incidental fee statement credit
$250 Hilton resort statement credit
$100 on-property credit at Waldorf Astoria Hotels & Resorts and Conrad Hotels & Resorts when booking the exclusive Aspire Card package
Access to 24/7 American Express concierge 
No foreign transaction fees
$450 annual fee”


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