# Holy Moly.  Marriott is acquiring Starwood [Hotel Business, not Timeshares]



## GreenTea (Nov 16, 2015)

http://news.marriott.com/2015/11/ma...rldwide-creating-the-worlds-largest-hote.html


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## GrayFal (Nov 16, 2015)

*Marriott International to Acquire Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide,*

http://news.marriott.com/2015/11/ma...rldwide-creating-the-worlds-largest-hote.html


http://news.marriott.com/2015/11/ma...rldwide-creating-the-worlds-largest-hote.html

Marriott International to Acquire Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Creating the World's Largest Hotel Company
Marriott and StarwoodCombined Company Will Have 1.1 Million Rooms in More Than 5,500 Hotels,

Spanning the Globe in Over 100 Countries

30 Leading Brands Will Provide Guests Unmatched Choices  

Transaction Offers Substantial Economies of Scale  

Combined Company Should Deliver Significant Capital Returns to Shareholders  

Conference Call with Investment Community at 9:00 am ET, Today, November 16, with Simultaneous Webcast  

Marriott and Starwood infographic_R3Bethesda, MD, and Stamford, CT, November 16, 2015 – Marriott International, Inc. (NASDAQ: MAR) and Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. (NYSE: HOT) announced today that the boards of directors of both companies have unanimously approved a definitive merger agreement under which the companies will create the world’s largest hotel company.  The transaction combines Starwood’s leading lifestyle brands and international footprint with Marriott’s strong presence  in the luxury and select-service tiers, as well as the convention and resort segment, creating a more comprehensive portfolio.  

.  The merged company will offer broader choice for guests, greater opportunities for associates and should unlock additional value for Marriott and Starwood shareholders.  Combined, the companies operate or franchise more than 5,500 hotels with 1.1 million rooms worldwide.  The combined company’s pro forma fee revenue for the 12 months ended September 30, 2015 totals over $2.7 billion.  

Download video b-roll, logos, images and infographic.

Transaction Highlights and Strategic Benefits 

Summary of Transaction: Under the terms of the agreement, at closing, Starwood shareholders will receive 0.92 shares of Marriott International, Inc. Class A common stock and $2.00 in cash for each share of Starwood common stock. On a pro forma basis, Starwood shareholders would own approximately 37 percent of the combined company’s common stock after completion of the merger using fully diluted share counts as of September 30, 2015.  Total consideration to be paid by Marriott totals $12.2 billion consisting of $11.9 billion of Marriott International stock, based on the 20-day VWAP (volume weighted average price) of Marriott stock ending on November 13, 2015, and $340 million of cash, based on approximately 170 million fully diluted Starwood shares outstanding at September 30, 2015.  

Based on Marriott’s 20-day VWAP ending November 13, 2015, the merger transaction has a current value of $72.08 per Starwood share, including the $2 cash per share consideration.  

Starwood shareholders will separately receive consideration from the spin-off of the Starwood timeshare business and subsequent merger with Interval Leisure Group, which has an estimated value of approximately $1.3 billion to Starwood shareholders or approximately $7.80 per Starwood share, based on the 20-day VWAP of Interval Leisure Group stock ending November 13, 2015.  

The timeshare transaction should close prior to the Marriott-Starwood merger closing.


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## falmouth3 (Nov 16, 2015)

Thanks for posting.  I wonder how this will affect Starwood owners.  I'm hoping it will be a good thing.


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## Sugarcubesea (Nov 16, 2015)

GreenTea said:


> http://news.marriott.com/2015/11/ma...rldwide-creating-the-worlds-largest-hote.html



Wow, Marriott is going to be the largest out there


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## Beaglemom3 (Nov 16, 2015)

Just saw this, too !

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/16/marriott-to-buy-starwood-for-122b-in-cashstock.html







=


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Nov 16, 2015)

Note - this is Marriott International, the hotel company, not MVC. 

So what will Marriott International do with the Timeshare arm of Starwood?

Keep it? Spin it off? Sell it to MVC or somebody else? They just can't merge into MVC. They are separate companies. . .


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## NJDave (Nov 16, 2015)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Note - this is Marriott International, the hotel company, not MVC.
> 
> So what will Marriott International do with the Timeshare arm of Starwood?
> 
> Keep it? Spin it off? Sell it to MVC or somebody else? They just can't merge into MVC. They are separate companies. . .



It was previously announced that the timeshare arm of Starwood would be acquired by Interval.


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## sb2313 (Nov 16, 2015)

There is a line in the linked article about the spinoff of Vistana(Starwood timeshares) to interval international as the timeshare section of starwood has already been spun off.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Nov 16, 2015)

This has nothing to do with the Marriott timeshare business.  In other words, the Starwood timeshares will NOT become part of the MVCI portfolio. To stay at a Sarwood timeshare you will continue to use II etc.......


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## bazzap (Nov 16, 2015)

Remembering this is separate from the
"previously announced sale of Starwood vacation ownership business to Interval Leisure Group"
It will be interesting to see how this develops and what impact it has both on Marriott and the MVCI relationship with Interval


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## Jason245 (Nov 16, 2015)

This will mean the end of the spg loyalty program 

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## steve b (Nov 16, 2015)

I think it is unlikely that the spg loyalty program will end for a long time.  Marriott will want to make all those new Starwood customers happy and make sure they do not send their business elsewhere


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## pedro47 (Nov 16, 2015)

steve b said:


> I think it is unlikely that the spg loyalty program will end for a long time.  Marriott will want to make all those new Starwood customers happy and make sure they do not send their business elsewhere



I agree Marriott enjoys having a loyal customers data base.


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## Lansdowne (Nov 16, 2015)

Wow - this will be very interesting for those of us who own both Starwood and Marriott! Starwood has sold their timeshare operation while keeping their SPG link - whatever that means now. Marriott has also separated their timeshare operation from their main operations as well. The next few years will probably require some tough decisions for many.


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## Jason245 (Nov 16, 2015)

steve b said:


> I think it is unlikely that the spg loyalty program will end for a long time.  Marriott will want to make all those new Starwood customers happy and make sure they do not send their business elsewhere


Look at the United Continental merger or American /us airways..

Since there is even less government regulations, expect transition to be sooner..



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## Antny (Nov 16, 2015)

*Rebrand?*

Just curious.  Will the Starwood hotels be rebranded as Marriott or a subsidiary like Starwood by Marriott?


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## johnrsrq (Nov 16, 2015)

http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Marriott-buys-rival-hotel-chain-Starwood-for-6635051.php

I still have some old 50% rack  room rate SPG  coupons, not used in years. Available for $10 each


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## thinze3 (Nov 16, 2015)

*NICE!*

I like many Starwood Hotels (especially Westins) and now they will become part of my search when looking for rooms. Also, there is a great Sheraton in Frisco, TX right down from my DD's home.


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## GrayFal (Nov 16, 2015)

http://thepointsguy.com/2015/11/marriott-to-acquire-starwood-hotels/

What does this mean for you?

While the deal is absolutely fantastic news for Marriott Rewards members, who will eventually have access to Starwood’s arguably higher-end portfolio, the implications aren’t so positive for the Starwood Preferred Guest program — and its 21 million members. SPG is significantly more rewarding than Marriott Rewards, which only last month announced plans to up its game a bit in order to catch up with the competition.

We can of course hope for Marriott to adopt the SPG program, but with fewer than half the members of Marriott Rewards, that certainly isn’t likely. And there is some hope that Marriott could operate the Starwood Preferred Guest program alongside its own, as IHG is currently doing with Kimpton, though with less competition in the lodging industry there may be little incentive to do so in the long term.



Read more: http://thepointsguy.com/2015/11/marriott-to-acquire-starwood-hotels/#ixzz3rfASCuxl


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## JEPASVC (Nov 16, 2015)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-vistana-timeshare-unit-to-interval-leisure

According to the above article Starwood retained 55% of the new timeshare company. So will that mean that Marriott will also own parts of Sheraton and Westin timeshare unit? That will be interesting.


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## VacationForever (Nov 16, 2015)

I wonder how the 2 reward systems will be combined... hopefully something like a 2:1 conversion.


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## GreenTea (Nov 16, 2015)

I love that some of these properties will now be eligible for MR.  I do wonder if eventually the timeshares could be paid with MR points or the nights in them eligible for MR points.   I understand this is the hotels, not the timeshares, but we currently can book the timeshares with points and earn points in them and they are separate from Marriott hotels.  Will that carry over into the Starwood timeshares?


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## JIMinNC (Nov 16, 2015)

jimfaria said:


> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-vistana-timeshare-unit-to-interval-leisure
> 
> According to the above article Starwood retained 55% of the new timeshare company. So will that mean that Marriott will also own parts of Sheraton and Westin timeshare unit? That will be interesting.



Under the terms of the spinoff, Starwood will *not* retain 55% of Vistana. The Bloomberg article says that Starwood _*shareholders*_ will own 55% of Vistana (and Interval presumably the other 45%). So if you are a current Starwood shareholder, the spinoff (which will close prior to the sale to Marriott) will simply result in you owning shares of both Starwood and Vistana - two totally separate companies - and the Starwood shareholders as a whole will then own 55% of the Vistana entity. The current Starwood management (and eventually Marriott) will have no control over the Vistana/Interval owned company other than whatever marketing control they get through the continued licensing/franchise of the Starwood brands - Westin, Sheraton, etc. Day-to-day management control will rest with the Interval/Vistana Board and their management team.


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## Ken555 (Nov 16, 2015)

sptung said:


> I wonder how the 2 reward systems will be combined... hopefully something like a 2:1 conversion.




I haven't been impressed with many Marriott hotels, though I'm prepared to hope for the future. Even with a 2:1 exchange I'm not sure that's enough for value. I'm spending all my SPG points today (I have 297,000 left at the moment, as I slowed acquiring them this year) with reservations late next year or further which I can cancel if the terms of the acquisition look better than expected for us.

<music> This is a dark day for SPG members. </music>


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## Mr. Vker (Nov 16, 2015)

On to Tahiti and Bora Bora! FINALLY!


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## WalnutBaron (Nov 16, 2015)

Antny said:


> Just curious.  Will the Starwood hotels be rebranded as Marriott or a subsidiary like Starwood by Marriott?



Marriott's CEO announced in his press conference this morning that all Starwood brands would be retained, meaning Marriott would be managing over 30 hotel brands after the merger is completed in mid-2016.


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## bazzap (Nov 16, 2015)

Mr. Vker said:


> On to Tahiti and Bora Bora! FINALLY!


And back to Mauritius and the Seychelles, but now with Marriott brand benefits.
Plus another Indian Ocean option we have not yet had a chance to try, The Maldives


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## Luvtoride (Nov 16, 2015)

*A win for Marrriott Rewards loyalists*

As stated by many above, I see this as a positive for us MR members with more access to more and higher end resort hotels in many nice locations.  I'm would think that Marriott will handle the transition of SPG members into MR as quickly and fairly as possible.  They do not want to alienate this 50% increase in MR members to their program out of the gate.  I can see Chase rushing to issue millions more MR Visa cards too. 
I would also be interested to see how MVCI tries to bring this new brand into its Explorer collection.  I bet there will be some new opportunities for additional travel options for DC points members with this acquisition as well. 
I guess I'm more positive than some about Marriott's intentions.


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## Mr. Vker (Nov 16, 2015)

bazzap said:


> And back to Mauritius and the Seychelles, but now with Marriott brand benefits.
> Plus another Indian Ocean option we have not yet had a chance to try, The Maldives



Great! Now I can be more jealous of your travels via Facebook.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 16, 2015)

Luvtoride said:


> As stated by many above, I see this as a positive for us MR members with more access to more and higher end resort hotels in many nice locations.  I'm would think that Marriott will handle the transition of SPG members into MR as quickly and fairly as possible.  They do not want to alienate this 50% increase in MR members to their program out of the gate.  I can see Chase rushing to issue millions more MR Visa cards too.
> I would also be interested to see how MVCI tries to bring this new brand into its Explorer collection.  I bet there will be some new opportunities for additional travel options for DC points members with this acquisition as well. ...



SPG's Senior VP says this morning that they're not looking for a swift integration, that SPG members can plan on SOP for the near future:

_"Today is the first day of a long journey as we combine our two companies. For now, we remain separate, and there is no change to your SPG program status, your Starpoints® or your existing reservations. You will continue to earn Starpoints and elite stay/night credit for your stays, as well as bonus Starpoints for any promotions in which you are participating. There is no change to how you manage your SPG account or book reservations."_

(Thanks to LisaRex who posted the entire statement in Post #13 in the Starwood forum thread.)



Luvtoride said:


> I guess I'm more positive than some about Marriott's intentions.



I'm positive about this as a Marriott Rewards member.  If I were an SPG member, not so much based on the overall sentiments on flyertalk.com threads.


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## Sicnarf (Nov 16, 2015)

Despite what others say, I'm holding on to my 500,000+ SPs.  I'm quite hopeful that Marriott will adopt the best of the two rewards programs benefiting both current Starwood and Marriott rewards members alike.  And having access to lots more hotel locations is definitely a huge bonus!

I may be overly optimistic but I'm hoping that ILG can somehow expand the use of my SOs to lots of other locations as well!


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## Jason245 (Nov 16, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> SPG's Senior VP says this morning that they're not looking for a swift integration, that SPG members can plan on SOP for the near future:
> 
> _"Today is the first day of a long journey as we combine our two companies. For now, we remain separate, and there is no change to your SPG program status, your Starpoints® or your existing reservations. You will continue to earn Starpoints and elite stay/night credit for your stays, as well as bonus Starpoints for any promotions in which you are participating. There is no change to how you manage your SPG account or book reservations."_
> 
> ...


Once the deal is closed. ..spg vp gets his pink slip and his promise goes with him..give. how airlines merger intigrated the ff programs..expect the worst of both..after all.. when you are the largest, your need to spend money to retain and compete goes down...

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## Werner Weiss (Nov 16, 2015)

Antny said:


> Just curious.  Will the Starwood hotels be rebranded as Marriott or a subsidiary like Starwood by Marriott?


Marriott currently claims 19 brands. That includes Marriott Vacation Club, but not The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club or Grand Residences by Marriott. If you count those two, Marriott has 21 brands.

Starwood currently claims 11 brands.

Marriott is already touting a combined company with "30 Leading Brands."

Chances are the corporate Starwood name will go away (there are no hotels with giant Starwood signs on them). But St. Regis, Luxury Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Le Méridien, Design Hotels, W Hotels, Westin, Sheraton, Four Points, Aloft, and Element will give Marriott more brands to franchise.

I could see Tribute Portfolio merged into Autograph Collection. But a downtown with a Westin, Sheraton, Le Méridien, Marriott, and Renaissance is likely to still have those hotels branded the same way after the merger closes.


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## jd2601 (Nov 16, 2015)

*Barony Beach*

I am sure this thought is premature but wonder if this may have a positive effect on Barony Beach?  I know many of the MVC are situated with Marriott properties on site and have enjoyed amenities at Lakeshore and Canyon Villas.  Is Barony the only property with a Starwood property?

It would be nice if the Westin would be integrated and some amenities at the Westin Resort were made available to Barony guests.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 16, 2015)

jd2601 said:


> I am sure this thought is premature but wonder if this may have a positive effect on Barony Beach?  I know many of the MVC are situated with Marriott properties on site and have enjoyed amenities at Lakeshore and Canyon Villas.  Is Barony the only property with a Starwood property?
> 
> It would be nice if the Westin would be integrated and some amenities at the Westin Resort were made available to Barony guests.



It's nice to think about shared amenities but somebody has to pay for them.  DSVI's MF's increased 15% in 2012 when that board re-negotiated limited reciprocal benefits with the adjacent JW Marriott, and continuing annual increases are guaranteed to the JW by the agreement.  Here are the ongoing cost details from the Desert Springs Villas 1 - Spa benefit returns! 2011 thread:



> •	The cost of the new license fee is $57.50 per unit week owned. This is about a $12 per unit week increase from the license fee in effect during 2009, when DSV last had a license agreement to use the hotel's facilities. Currently, without a license agreement DSV owners have to pay $175 per week for a pass to use the hotel's facilities good for two adults and up to four children under 18 years old.
> 
> •	The new license agreement allows for an annual increase in the license fee, which is pegged at CPI plus 1%. This is the same arrangement as was under the now expired agreement. There is a difference however. If the license agreement's renewal option is taken, then in year 6 there is a onetime 10% license fee increase. In the following years, the annual fee increase reverts to CPI plus 1%.
> 
> •	While DSV Owners will again have access to the hotel's spa, exercise room, pool areas and tennis courts, the license agreement will not include access to these facilities on Saturday or Sunday. On those days, if any DSV Owner wishes to use the hotel's facilities, the Owner will have to pay the same amount as hotel guests are charged.



So as a Barony Beach owner, I want no part of an agreement with the adjacent Westin Hotel unless the fees for it are charged outside of Barony's MF's.  Pay-per-use is okay, being held hostage to fees for offsite amenities that I may not use is not okay.


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## pedro47 (Nov 16, 2015)

Look liked the major players in the hotel industry will be Marriott's, Hilton and Wyndham after this purchase.


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## Helios (Nov 16, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> I haven't been impressed with many Marriott hotels, though I'm prepared to hope for the future. Even with a 2:1 exchange I'm not sure that's enough for value. I'm spending all my SPG points today (I have 297,000 left at the moment, as I slowed acquiring them this year) with reservations late next year or further which I can cancel if the terms of the acquisition look better than expected for us.
> 
> <music> This is a dark day for SPG members. </music>
> 
> ...




I agree with this one.  I would love to see ILG but MVC and merge SVN, MVC, and Hyatt timeshares...:hysterical:


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## Werner Weiss (Nov 16, 2015)

pedro47 said:


> Look liked the major players in the hotel industry will be Marriott's, Hilton and Wyndham after this purchase.


InterContinental Hotels Group (IHG) is also huge, with its major brands: InterContinental, Crowne Plaza, Holiday Inn Hotels & Resorts, Holiday Inn Club Vacations, Holiday Inn Express, Hotel Indigo, Candlewood Suites, and Staybridge Suites.

Here are the ten largest hotel companies in the world, by room count (pre-merger):

http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Article/15510/10-largest-hotel-companies-by-room-count

Of course, you can measure "largest" in a number of ways, including revenue, market cap, number of properties, number of rooms, and even number of loyalty program members.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 16, 2015)

Antny said:


> Just curious.  Will the Starwood hotels be rebranded as Marriott or a subsidiary like Starwood by Marriott?



I suspect limited rebranding of properties as others have said. The Starwood name will go away, but no hotel carries that name.



jimfaria said:


> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-vistana-timeshare-unit-to-interval-leisure
> 
> According to the above article Starwood retained 55% of the new timeshare company. So will that mean that Marriott will also own parts of Sheraton and Westin timeshare unit? That will be interesting.



I believe Starwood shareholders will retain 55% ownership of the old Starwood timeshare company. I understand that to mean that Interval Leisure Group will issue new shares to current Stawood shareholders that equal 55% of the Interval Leisure Group after the completion of the deal.

It is likely that the ILG/Starwood deal will be done long before the Marriott/Starwood deal, so then when Marriott acquires Starwood, they will issue 0.92 shares of Marriott International plus $2 per share for each current share to all Starwood shareholders. So current Starwood shareholders will end up some combination of Marriott shares, Interval shares and $2 cash. Many of those Marriott shareholders are also owners of MVW shares due to the divestiture of that business from MI several years ago. In the end they are both two different companies with two different boards. Though there may be some of the same people sitting on each board.


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## Quilter (Nov 16, 2015)

I wonder if yesterday's system trouble at Owner Services and the website being down had anything to do with today's announcement.  I began calling at 9:45 a.m. yesterday and it was down all day.   The first rep said maybe back in 10 mins. and even offered to call me back when it was working.   The rest of the reps during the day all said they doubted it would get fixed that day.   Glad to get through this morning.   First call a recording said things were too busy and said I would have to call back later.   I did call back. . .right after I disconnected and got through to an 8 min. hold time.   Rep was great but the system was very s-l-o-w.


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## Quilter (Nov 16, 2015)

Years ago I thought the spg program was fine.   The annual fee on the credit card was low and the bonus for points to air miles was nice.   Then the fee kept increasing, the annual hotel certificate was difficult to worthless.   The Marriott Rewards/ Chase Ultimate Rewards combo was much better.   

I also thought the comparison of Fairfield Inns on my route from MI to HHI or FI was much better than Four Points.   Finding Four Points was difficult and the one I did find was shabby.

Why do people think the spg program is superior?


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## dioxide45 (Nov 16, 2015)

Quilter said:


> I wonder if yesterday's system trouble at Owner Services and the website being down had anything to do with today's announcement.  I began calling at 9:45 a.m. yesterday and it was down all day.   The first rep said maybe back in 10 mins. and even offered to call me back when it was working.   The rest of the reps during the day all said they doubted it would get fixed that day.   Glad to get through this morning.   First call a recording said things were too busy and said I would have to call back later.   I did call back. . .right after I disconnected and got through to an 8 min. hold time.   Rep was great but the system was very s-l-o-w.



I doubt it, I don't know what kind of integration they would be doing between MVW system and anything to do with Starwood. The merger won't even impact MVW unless they add some Explorer Collection options.

I don't even know what if anything Marriott Hotels would be integrating with Starwood. The deal isn't even close to being closed. I suspect yesterday's issues are just the regular issues we see from time to time. We have seen the points reservation system down at times, sometimes for considerable lengths of time.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 16, 2015)

I would expect absolutely no integration between Marriott timeshares and Westin/Sheraton timeshares. Marriott International will be the winner in the end since they will earn a franchise fee from both Marriott Vacations World Wide and Vistana Signature Experiences for nothing more than them carrying their respective names on the properties. The only way to get in to each others properties is will to still trade through Interval International.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 16, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I would expect absolutely no integration between Marriott timeshares and Westin/Sheraton timeshares. Marriott International will be the winner in the end since they will earn a franchise fee from both Marriott Vacations World Wide and Vistana Signature Experiences for nothing more than them carrying their respective names on the properties. The only way to get in to each others properties is will to still trade through Interval International.



Vistana Signature Experiences is being spun off and acquired by Interval Leisure Group, and the acquisition of Starwood hotels by Marriott, Int'l is, "subject to Marriott International and Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide shareholder approvals, completion of Starwood’s planned disposition of its timeshare business, regulatory approvals and the satisfaction of other customary closing conditions." (See the paragraph just above the section, "Conference Call at 9:00 am ET ..." at the news.marriott.com link.)

How does MI earn franchise fees from Vistana if the ILG acquisition of Vistana has to be completed before MI can acquire the Starwood hotels?

jd2601 asked upthread about eventual agreements to share amenities between MVW timeshares and nearby Starwood hotels which will then be under MI's umbrella, which could be the case at Barony Beach Club and the Westin Hotel next door.  While I'm not in favor of those agreements any time they involve fees being included in the MF's, I can see how they could happen in ways similar to the few current agreements between MVW timeshares and MI hotels.

If I took your train of thought way off track into neverland or if you post was in reference to something other than jd2601's, just ignore me.  This is all a little bit confusing.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 16, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> How does MI earn franchise fees from Vistana if the ILG acquisition of Vistana has to be completed before MI can acquire the Starwood hotels?



VSE (Starwood) timeshare properties will continue to carry the Westin and Sheraton names. Those names will at some point be owned by Marriott International.

Just like MVW paying Marriott International a $50MM franchise fee, I recall reading at some point of a similar fee between VSE and Starwood. That deal will then be acquired by Marriott International in its acquisition of Starwood Hotels. So in the end Marriott International earns the franchise fee from MVW and VSE because it owns the brands that those timeshare properties carry. Who else would VSE/ILG be paying to carry the Westin and Sheraton names on their properties? Unless it rebrands them.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 16, 2015)

Quilter said:


> I wonder if yesterday's system trouble at Owner Services and the website being down had anything to do with today's announcement.  I began calling at 9:45 a.m. yesterday and it was down all day.   The first rep said maybe back in 10 mins. and even offered to call me back when it was working.   The rest of the reps during the day all said they doubted it would get fixed that day.   Glad to get through this morning.   First call a recording said things were too busy and said I would have to call back later.   I did call back. . .right after I disconnected and got through to an 8 min. hold time.   Rep was great but the system was very s-l-o-w.



Absolutely not. Today's announcement was just the announcement of the merger legal agreement. No integration work can even begin until all shareholder and regulatory approvals are received and the transaction closes. That will take months - then months or even years longer to integrate systems as needed. Plus, since this merger involves Marriott International and not Marriott Vacations Worldwide, even then, there will be minimal impact on the Marriott Vacation Worldwide timeshare systems - maybe just some additional Explorer Collection offerings. This is a hotel deal for Marriott, not a timeshare deal.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 16, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> How does MI earn franchise fees from Vistana if the ILG acquisition of Vistana has to be completed before MI can acquire the Starwood hotels?



Because franchise and licensing fees are often recurring, annual fees, not just up-front fees. So once Marriott owns the trademarks to the various Starwood brands sometime in 2016, any ongoing licensing fees that Vistana is obligated to pay to Starwood would then be paid to Marriott International instead as the new owner of those trademarks.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 16, 2015)

GrayFal said:


> http://thepointsguy.com/2015/11/marriott-to-acquire-starwood-hotels/
> 
> WSPG is significantly more rewarding than Marriott Rewards.....We can of course hope for Marriott to adopt the SPG program, but with fewer than half the members of Marriott Rewards, that certainly isn’t likely. And there is some hope that Marriott could operate the Starwood Preferred Guest program alongside its own, as IHG is currently doing with Kimpton.


In my opinion, SPG's best feature is the 25,000 airline miles for 20,000 points, but I actually think the Marriott Rewards program is overall much better than the SPG program.  As for keeping both programs, Arne Sorenson said on CNBC this morning that they would be keeping the Starwood brands but merging the loyalty programs.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 16, 2015)

pedro47 said:


> Look liked the major players in the hotel industry will be Marriott's, Hilton and Wyndham after this purchase.



Actually, I think IHG is currently the largest company in the hotel industry by room count.  After the Marriott acquisition of Starwood is complete, IHG will still be second biggest  by that measure.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 17, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> ... How does MI earn franchise fees from Vistana if the ILG acquisition of Vistana has to be completed before MI can acquire the Starwood hotels?





dioxide45 said:


> VSE (Starwood) timeshare properties will continue to carry the Westin and Sheraton names. Those names will at some point be owned by Marriott International.
> 
> Just like MVW paying Marriott International a $50MM franchise fee, I recall reading at some point of a similar fee between VSE and Starwood. That deal will then be acquired by Marriott International in its acquisition of Starwood Hotels. So in the end Marriott International earns the franchise fee from MVW and VSE because it owns the brands that those timeshare properties carry. Who else would VSE/ILG be paying to carry the Westin and Sheraton names on their properties? Unless it rebrands them.





JIMinNC said:


> Because franchise and licensing fees are often recurring, annual fees, not just up-front fees. So once Marriott owns the trademarks to the various Starwood brands sometime in 2016, any ongoing licensing fees that Vistana is obligated to pay to Starwood would then be paid to Marriott International instead as the new owner of those trademarks.



DOH!  Of course!  Thanks for putting me back on track.


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## Quilter (Nov 17, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> Absolutely not. Today's announcement was just the announcement of the merger legal agreement. No integration work can even begin until all shareholder and regulatory approvals are received and the transaction closes. That will take months - then months or even years longer to integrate systems as needed. Plus, since this merger involves Marriott International and not Marriott Vacations Worldwide, even then, there will be minimal impact on the Marriott Vacation Worldwide timeshare systems - maybe just some additional Explorer Collection offerings. This is a hotel deal for Marriott, not a timeshare deal.



Thanks, this makes more sense than my wanderings


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## Quilter (Nov 17, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> In my opinion, SPG's best feature is the 25,000 airline miles for 20,000 points, but I actually think the Marriott Rewards program is overall much better than the SPG program.  As for keeping both programs, Arne Sorenson said on CNBC this morning that they would be keeping the Starwood brands but merging the loyalty programs.



Yes, the extra 5,000 miles was a nice feature when I utilized it.   That's a 25% bonus.   But as I found out using Chase cards I could multiply my miles by 2 or 5.  The Ultimate Rewards points transfer to Marriott Rewards 1:1. 

A Cat 5/120K mile travel package costs 235,000 points.   The MR points that I accrue through maintenance fees or spending at resorts applies to the 115K points for the hotel.   The 120K points can come from UR points.   Therefore, the UR points are gathered through spending that buys miles at a 2x - 5x rate.


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## icydog (Nov 17, 2015)

Quilter said:


> Yes, the extra 5,000 miles was a nice feature when I utilized it.   That's a 25% bonus.   But as I found out using Chase cards I could multiply my miles by 2 or 5.  The Ultimate Rewards points transfer to Marriott Rewards 1:1.
> 
> A Cat 5/120K mile travel package costs 235,000 points.   The MR points that I accrue through maintenance fees or spending at resorts applies to the 115K points for the hotel.   The 120K points can come from UR points.   Therefore, the UR points are gathered through spending that buys miles at a 2x - 5x rate.




HUH!!! What are you saying? I have no idea what you mean.


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## Quilter (Nov 17, 2015)

icydog said:


> HUH!!! What are you saying? I have no idea what you mean.



Where does it get confusing?   I'll try to clear it up.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 17, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> DOH!  Of course!  Thanks for putting me back on track.



Okay, I found if over here in the Starwood/ILG thread on the Starwood forum. Vistana Signature Experiences will pay Starwood $30M annually plus 2% of vacation ownership interest sales. This is in addition to the $50M that MVW is paying. So annually, Marriott International will get at least $80MM annually from the two timeshare companies for them carrying their trademarks on their properties.


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## jme (Nov 17, 2015)

Starwood's email to owners 11/17/15:

"Dear Owner,
Earlier this week, Starwood Hotels & Resorts (Starwood) announced that they are joining with Marriott International to form the world’s largest hotel company, creating a marriage of the best in innovation and execution. 

We want to assure you that Starwood’s previously announced merger of Starwood Vacation Ownership (SVO) and Interval Leisure Group (ILG) will move forward as planned with an expected closing in the second quarter of 2016, creating a stronger, more integrated vacation ownership business. With our plans for accelerated growth and commitment to investing in new Westin® and Sheraton® properties, most notably, The Westin Nanea Ocean Villas in Maui, opening in 2017, the result will be a more robust portfolio of vacation offerings for Owners and Guests. 

With the combination of SVO and ILG, we will remain the exclusive provider of vacation ownership for the renowned Westin and Sheraton brands, and you will continue to enjoy your ownership as you always have, including Gold-level status in the industry-leading Starwood Preferred Guest® (SPG) program. 

Starwood and Marriott will remain separate companies until the transaction closes, which is expected by mid-year 2016. For now, there is no change to your SPG program status, Starpoints or existing reservations. SPG members will continue to earn Starpoints and elite stay/night credit for stays, and bonus Starpoints for any promotions in which they are currently participating. Members should continue to manage their SPG accounts and book reservations as normal. We will keep you updated as more information becomes available.

We are excited about what the future holds and invite you to click here to view the recent press release.
Best Regards, 
Stephen Williams
Stephen G. Williams 
Chief Operating Officer"


*I'm marginally interested at this point only because as existing Marriott owners, we also own 2 Sheraton Broadway Plantation weeks in Myrtle Beach, purchased RESALE.  Because of Starwood ownership via resale, we're not participants in the Starwood Points program, nor wish to be.  Probably won't affect us much other than "potential" enhanced opportunities as a Marriott owner and user of the Rewards and DC points via enrolled legacy weeks, MAYBE therefore giving us more hotel destinations from the Starwood system(???). That's my wish anyway. If we benefit also by easier trades Marriott>Starwood or Starwood>Marriott, that'll be great too, but that is highly questionable since the timeshare entities are and will remain separate----maybe a quasi-internal trade benefit, who knows. I'm sure they'll make it interesting, hopefully with some mutual relationship perks.*


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## dioxide45 (Nov 17, 2015)

jme said:


> I'm marginally interested at this point only because as existing Marriott owners, we also own 2 Sheraton Broadway Plantation weeks in Myrtle Beach, purchased RESALE.  Because of Starwood ownership via resale, we're not participants in the Starwood Points program, nor wish to be.  Probably won't affect us much other than "potential" enhanced opportunities as a Marriott owner and user of the Rewards and DC points via enrolled legacy weeks, MAYBE therefore giving us more hotel destinations from the Starwood system(???). That's my wish anyway. If we benefit also by easier trades Marriott>Starwood or Starwood>Marriott, that'll be great too, but that is highly questionable since the timeshare entities are and will remain separate----maybe a quasi-internal trade benefit, who knows. I'm sure they'll make it interesting, hopefully with some mutual relationship perks.



I wouldn't expect any additional trade benefits between Marriott and Starwood. I think the only gain that will come out of the Starwood/ILG deal is that we may see more Starwood weeks get deposited in to II. It seems that many of the Starwood bulks have dried up over the past few years. I would still expect each to continue to have their own internal II preferences.

I think Starwood started to lose a little direction. They have I think now three different systems at play. Some resorts are sold as weeks that have an SO value. Then they sell direct SOs in the new phase at the Westin St John. Then now they have their flex program that sounds more like the Marriott DC trust. They aren't keeping things simple. Of course, Marriott has two system, but they are only selling one of them, DC points. Starwood is trying to sell all three programs. Perhaps ILG can right the ship a little.


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## Wally3433 (Nov 17, 2015)

Bora Bora just skyrocketed to the top of our list to burn those MR points.  Could someone please make the earth shake when those properties come online with the MR program!


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## SMHarman (Nov 17, 2015)

jme said:


> Starwood's email to owners 11/17/15:
> 
> "Dear Owner,
> Earlier this week, Starwood Hotels & Resorts (Starwood) announced that they are joining with Marriott International to form the world’s largest hotel company, creating a marriage of the best in innovation and execution.
> ...


More likely to get Starwood > Hyatt timeshare benefits. Both falling into II ownership.


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## jme (Nov 17, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> More likely to get Starwood > Hyatt timeshare benefits. Both falling into II ownership.



That will be excellent as well.  Naturally I've had blinders on in staying within the Marriott system predominantly, so I'm not familiar with the many great Hyatt properties other than seeing photos occasionally.  But I never pursued them.  Opens up a lot of new and great opportunities to experience more than we have, though.  Sweet.



.


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## thinze3 (Nov 18, 2015)

*Marriott just sent out this email*

_As a valued member, we're excited to share the news that Marriott International will join together with Starwood Hotels & Resorts to create the world's largest hotel company. For our Marriott Rewards members, this will mean even more choices in even more places, giving you access to 1.1 million rooms across 5,500 hotels in more than 100 countries. 

Marriott Rewards and Starwood Preferred Guest (SPG) are among the industry's most-awarded loyalty programs, and they should be even stronger when the companies merge. Our programs and brands complement each other well, and we intend to draw upon the best of both programs to provide more value for our guests and hotels. 

This is the start of a long journey as we combine our two companies. For now, we remain separate, and there is no change to your Marriott Rewards program status, your Rewards points or your existing reservations. You will continue to earn Rewards points and elite stay/night credit for your stays, and bonus points for any promotions in which are you are participating. There is no change to how you manage your Rewards account or book reservations.

Over the coming months, as we have more to share we'll be sure to reach out to you by e-mail, at marriottrewards.com and via twitter (@MarriottRewards). In the meantime, we remain at your service wherever you need us—whether in our hotels, at marriottrewards.com, the Marriott mobile app, or via our Customer Care Centers. 

All my best, 


Arne Sorenson
President and Chief Executive Officer 
Marriott International, Inc. _


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## Quilter (Nov 18, 2015)

I would like it if MR adopted spg's method for tracking point credits and debits in the accounts online.   

I had a talk with MR today about a couple travel packages in both mine and hubby's accounts.   Earlier this month I had changed a reservation from my account to his and the MR rep canceled the award instead of "detaching" the award.   When it's canceled only a portion of the points goes back into your account.  The portion is only good for about 1 night's stay.   When it's detached a credit for the whole 5 nights goes back into your account.   It's hard to decipher what's going on when travel packages are deleted or credited to accounts.   Even the phone reps have trouble reading the activity.   

The same thing had happened in my husband's account.   The first MR rep I spoke with today said the award was canceled, only a portion was returned and so sorry, but there was nothing to be done to rectify the mistake.   I told him there was and asked for a supervisor.   I was glad when the supervisor told me "let me fix this mess and then we'll fix your husband's account".


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## icydog (Nov 18, 2015)

*Will MVCI reservations still count towards MR elite levels post Starwood?*

I get to be platinum elite pretty much every year due to my timeshare stays at Marriott Timeshare Resorts. 

I wonder if this benefit will go away when the Merger happens. I don't believe that Starwood offers it's owners the same benefit. Or do they?

 In any case, the Marriott Rewards Elite Level--earned with timeshare stays-- is very important to me!!


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## icydog (Nov 18, 2015)

Quilter said:


> I would like it if MR adopted spg's method for tracking point credits and debits in the accounts online.
> 
> I had a talk with MR today about a couple travel packages in both mine and hubby's accounts.   Earlier this month I had changed a reservation from my account to his and the MR rep canceled the award instead of "detaching" the award.   When it's canceled only a portion of the points goes back into your account.  The portion is only good for about 1 night's stay.   When it's detached a credit for the whole 5 nights goes back into your account.   It's hard to decipher what's going on when travel packages are deleted or credited to accounts.   Even the phone reps have trouble reading the activity.
> 
> The same thing had happened in my husband's account.   The first MR rep I spoke with today said the award was canceled, only a portion was returned and so sorry, but there was nothing to be done to rectify the mistake.   I told him there was and asked for a supervisor.   I was glad when the supervisor told me "let me fix this mess and then we'll fix your husband's account".




A very similar thing happened to me.  It was only after I spoke with a manager (not a supervisor) that I got the mess in my account sorted out.  It took an hour but she got it done.


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## Quilter (Nov 19, 2015)

icydog said:


> I get to be platinum elite pretty much every year due to my timeshare stays at Marriott Timeshare Resorts.
> 
> I wonder if this benefit will go away when the Merger happens. I don't believe that Starwood offers it's owners the same benefit. Or do they?
> 
> In any case, the Marriott Rewards Elite Level--earned with timeshare stays-- is very important to me!!



It is with me too!

I've scanned both Marriott and spg forums on flyertalk.   Seems members want to keep what they think is best about their favorite program.   The email notices we have received have said:

"Our programs and brands complement each other well, and we intend to draw upon the best of both programs to provide more value for our guests and hotels. "

We can only hope that when they're done it will be the best of both programs.  Since 1998 they have heard what customers value most about their programs:  http://freddieawards.com/2015-annual-freddie-awards-27th/


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## Werner Weiss (Nov 19, 2015)

Quilter said:


> It is with me too!
> 
> I've scanned both Marriott and spg forums on flyertalk.   Seems members want to keep what they think is best about their favorite program.   The email notices we have received have said:
> 
> ...



Nobody knows yet what the combined program will be like. However...

Marriott Rewards is the larger program. Marriott is the acquiring company. And, chances are, Marriott Rewards will be the surviving program and will look much as it does now.

Marriott will want to inherit the loyalty of current SPG members. That customer base is part of what Marriott is buying, along with Starwood's brands, franchise agreements, management contracts, and other assets. At the same time, Marriott needs to avoid alienating MR members.

I would expect a period of at least a year during which SPG members can redeem under the old SPG structure. 

MR points and SPG points are a different currency. It takes far more hotel spending to accrue the same number SPG points as MR points. However, Marriott's hotel redemptions typically require two to three times as many points as Starwood's hotel redemptions for similar hotels. So SPG members can reasonably expect a multiplier to be applied to their point balances before they are transferred over.

It remains to be seen if SPG members with lifetime elite status will have that status transferred over on a Gold-for-Gold and Platinum-for-Platinum basis. In any case, I would expect program-to-date Starwood nights to count toward toward Marriott lifetime status. I think we'll see a lot of newly minted Marriott Rewards lifetime elite members coming out of this merger.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 19, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> Nobody knows yet what the combined program will be like. However...
> 
> Marriott Rewards is the larger program. Marriott is the acquiring company. And, chances are, Marriott Rewards will be the surviving program and will look much as it does now.



It just dawned on me that with a larger Marriott Rewards program, the sales and marketing folks at Marriott Vacations Worldwide will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc. They must be literally salivating at the prospect of fresh new meat...


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## Werner Weiss (Nov 19, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> It just dawned on me that with a larger Marriott Rewards program, the sales and marketing folks at Marriott Vacations Worldwide will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc. They must be literally salivating at the prospect of fresh new meat...


Good point. But that there's more...

Just as Marriott Vacations Worldwide was spun off from Marriott International, Starwood Vacation Network (Interval Leisure Group) was spun off from Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc.

Starwood Vacation Network licenses the Sheraton and Westin brands from its former owner, just as Marriott Vacations Worldwide licenses the Marriott and Ritz-Carlton brands from its former owner.

After the Marriott-Starwood merger is complete, Sheraton and Westin will be in he same loyalty program as Marriott (and essentially Ritz-Carlton too).

So will the sales and marketing folks at Starwood Vacation Network (or whatever its new name might eventually be) also "will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc."? Are they also salivating?


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## jimf41 (Nov 19, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> So will the sales and marketing folks at Starwood Vacation Network (or whatever its new name might eventually be) also "will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc."? Are they also salivating?



No, I don't think so. Marriott hotels feed prospects to MVC. In the future that will include all the folks staying at former Starwood properties. The Starwood TS folks will have no associated hotel group to farm new customers from.


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## SueDonJ (Nov 19, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> Good point. But that there's more...
> 
> Just as Marriott Vacations Worldwide was spun off from Marriott International, Starwood Vacation Network (Interval Leisure Group) was spun off from Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc.
> 
> ...



Has the re-naming of Starwood's timeshare division to Vistana Signature Experiences been legally completed?  It was announced early this year with an expected completion date of 4th QTR '15 but I can't find anything that says it's a done deal.  Following that, the merger of the ILG subsidiary with VSE isn't expected to be completed until 2nd QTR '16, and, the press releases say that the MI acquisition of Starwood's hotel business is contingent on the ILG/VSE merger.

I'm so confused reading all these TUG posts because it's still unclear which transactions have been completed, and there hasn't been much talk at all about possible impediments in any of the processes.  It seems there are still too many moving parts to be able to get into minute details of how the respective customer loyalty programs will work, especially as they'll affiliate with the timeshare companies.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 19, 2015)

Werner Weiss said:


> So will the sales and marketing folks at Starwood Vacation Network (or whatever its new name might eventually be) also "will get a larger pool of Rewards members to solicit for tours/presentations, etc."? Are they also salivating?





jimf41 said:


> No, I don't think so. Marriott hotels feed prospects to MVC. In the future that will include all the folks staying at former Starwood properties. The Starwood TS folks will have no associated hotel group to farm new customers from.



I think it depends upon whether Marriott International shares the Marriott Rewards database with Vistana Signature Experiences. They clearly have a marketing agreement in place to allow Marriott Vacations Worldwide to mine the Rewards database. Will they have a similar agreement with Vistana? I would think the spinoff of Vistana from Starwood would logically have allowed Vistana to mine the SPG program. So when SPG is merged into Marriott Rewards it would be logical to assume that any such marketing agreement would transfer to the combined program, giving Vistana the right to mine Rewards as well.

To jimf41, the former Starwood timeshare folks (soon to be called Vistana Signature Experiences) _will_ have an associated hotel group - Marriott International - which will own the Sheraton and Westin brands just like they now own the Marriott, Courtyard, Ritz Carlton, AC, Gaylord, etc brands. Go to Marriott.com and look at the bottom of the home page - Sheraton, Westin, W, Aloft, etc will just be added to that already long list.

So...since Marriott Vacations Worldwide (a totally separate company from Marriott International) licenses the Marriott Vacation Club brand from Marriott International, and since Vistana Signature Experiences (also a totally separate company from Marriott International) will be licensing the Westin and Sheraton brands from that same Marriott International, once the two loyalty programs are combined, I would expect Vistana owners to get Marriott Rewards benefits for their timeshare stays (nights credit, spending, etc) just like Marriott Vacations Worldwide owners get Rewards benefits for their timeshare stays. As such, there would be no reason not to share the Marriott Rewards database with both Marriott Vacations Worldwide and Vistana Signature Experiences. I assume that both companies would have to pay Marriott International for access to that database (unless some pre-existing agreement gives the two timeshare spinoffs free access to the loyalty programs associated with their licensed brands).

Just theorizing, of course, but I think you have to think of Marriott Vacations Worldwide and Vistana Signature Experiences as two very similar companies - both operate timeshare systems, both will be licensing their branding from Marriott International, and both will likely be using the same Marriott Rewards loyalty program for their owners. Both of their relationships with Marriott International may wind up being very similar.


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## Quilter (Nov 19, 2015)

Please see comments in red.



Werner Weiss said:


> ...
> 
> Marriott Rewards is the larger program. Marriott is the acquiring company. And, chances are, Marriott Rewards will be the surviving program and will look much as it does now.  I hope. . .
> 
> ...


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## jimf41 (Nov 19, 2015)

Jim,

It would be nice for the VSE folks to have what you propose but as a practical manor I don't see it working. If I understand you correctly you are saying that when a VSE owner stays at his resort they will get MRPs and elite night credits? If that's true then I should be able to use MRPs to stay at a VSE resort and I will get MRPs and elite night credits when I stay there. I don't think that's in anyones business model.

 Functionally there would be no difference because the only way to make that scenario work would be to combine the reservation systems. Hyatt has done this with their sale of Hyatt TSs to ILG but Hyatt hotels is still an entity. Starwood is going away.

Marriott didn't sell their TS unit to another company they spun it off to it's own company. VSE is being sold outright to ILG with the agreement that they can still use the Westin and Sheraton name on the cocktail napkins but I've read nothing about VSE being incorporated into the MRP.


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## SMHarman (Nov 19, 2015)

jimf41 said:


> Jim,
> 
> It would be nice for the VSE folks to have what you propose but as a practical manor I don't see it working. If I understand you correctly you are saying that when a VSE owner stays at his resort they will get MRPs and elite night credits? If that's true then I should be able to use MRPs to stay at a VSE resort and I will get MRPs and elite night credits when I stay there. I don't think that's in anyones business model.
> 
> ...


Why not. 

SPG can redeem into SVO now. 
Starwood own week's / nights in VVE

Why wouldn't that  continue. It would certainly be weird to folks outside these forum walls to see a Starwood or Westin name on a property but not be able to book it or redeem miles for it on the Marriott website.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 19, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> Why not.
> 
> SPG can redeem into SVO now.
> Starwood own week's / nights in VVE
> ...



It probably comes down to what is still to be negotiated.  If the Starwood timeshare group wants to become part of Marriott Rewards that can probably be negotiated, but I doubt that it is something that will happen automatically.


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## SMHarman (Nov 19, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> It probably comes down to what is still to be negotiated.  If the Starwood timeshare group wants to become part of Marriott Rewards that can probably be negotiated, but I doubt that it is something that will happen automatically.


Depends on the legal agreements. 

IANAA but if I were writing the original VVE separation agreement the contract would say 'SPG program or its successor or any program the SPG program is merged into. '

I'd also write that SVO 5* elite get platinum in the same as above Or maybe even write it as second from top tier. Lest the innovative create a new unobtanium level. 

Especially as SVO retail / 5* have the transfer / conversion benefit and it is a big sales tool.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 19, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> It probably comes down to what is still to be negotiated.  If the Starwood timeshare group wants to become part of Marriott Rewards that can probably be negotiated, but I doubt that it is something that will happen automatically.



A lot may depend on what was in the licencing agreement that they put together for the new VSE to be able to utilize the Westin and Sheraton names going forward. Does that agreement only include naming rights, or did it also include ability to use the loyalty program and or reservation system.

Of course that deal would have been written by Starwood Hotels, just like the MVC licencing agreement was written by Marriott International before the spinoff. So I would expect the deal to be pretty one sided in Starwoods favor.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 19, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> Depends on the legal agreements.
> 
> IANAA but if I were writing the original VVE separation agreement the contract would say 'SPG program or its successor or any program the SPG program is merged into. '
> 
> ...



It all depends on the thought process when writing that agreement. That agreement should be there to add value to Starwood Hotels shareholders. Of course you want to make sure it is fair to the new company and creates value for the new shareholders. Of course, pre ILG those new shareholders would be all of the current Starwood shareholders.

We know that Starwood was looking to sell the hotel division when they were writing this agreement. So did they write it to make it look more attractive to a potential suitor? Were they looking to sell the timeshare division at that time? It is possible, but the plan was a spinoff. So did they perhaps write the agreement more in favor of Starwood and less in favor of the spinco?

We won't know since companies don't generally make these contracts public. Just the high level details, like the $30M annual fee plus 2% of sales. That sounds kind of inline with the MVCI agreement with Marriott, though it might be a little richer. MVCI has almost three times as many properties carrying the Marriott name and MVCI is only paying $50M for that plus a percent of sales.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 19, 2015)

jimf41 said:


> Jim,
> 
> It would be nice for the VSE folks to have what you propose but as a practical manor I don't see it working. If I understand you correctly you are saying that when a VSE owner stays at his resort they will get MRPs and elite night credits? If that's true then I should be able to use MRPs to stay at a VSE resort and I will get MRPs and elite night credits when I stay there. I don't think that's in anyones business model.
> 
> ...



Essentially Starwood is spinning off VSE into a separate company, just like Marriott did when they spun off MVW, but then that spun off company is immediately being acquired by ILG. So in that sense, it is more similar to the Marriott spinoff than not.

But as SMHarman and dioxide45 say above, it probably depends upon what was negotiated in the agreements between Starwood and VSE. But I know if I were running VSE and intended to keep the Sheraton and Westin names on my timeshares long term, I would want to be able to offer my owners/potential buyers a way to use a hotel loyalty program to book at the hotels that carry those same brands - that connection to the hotel network is a primary benefit of paying the huge licensing and royalty fees to that hotel company. And if I were running VSE, I would not want to try to compete with MVW and HGVC for sales without a hotel loyalty link since those competitors can offer that.

So, if we assume that VSE did, in fact, negotiate to continue to participate in SPG or any successor program, I would fully expect a VSE owner to get MRPs and elite night credits and be able to use their MRPs to stay at any Marriott brand - including the new brands acquired from Starwood. So if a VSE owner has MRP points, they should be able to book a Marriott hotel, Westin hotel, Westin/Sheraton timeshare unit, or Marriott Vacation Club timeshare unit that has been made available in the hotel reservation system. Remember the hotel reservation systems are usually separate from the timeshare reservation systems. Today, MVW maintains their own timeshare reservation system, but they also provide some inventory to Marriott International that goes into the hotel reservation system for nightly bookings for cash or MRPs at the MVW timeshare resorts.

MVW provides Marriott International this inventory at their Marriott Vacation Club timeshares to put into the Marriott International hotel reservation system (because of weeks/points conversions to MRPs and maybe some other corporate inventory sources), to be bookable on a nightly basis by anyone with cash or MRPs through the hotel reservation system. So once Marriott International owns the Westin and Sheraton brands, why couldn't VSE do the same, and provide limited inventory in the Westin/Sheraton timeshares to be listed alongside Westin/Sheraton hotels in the Marriott International hotel reservation system that, presumably, will eventually take over all Westin/Sheraton hotel reservations? If VSE wants to be listed in a hotel reservation system and play in a loyalty program, that will be their only choice due to the name out front on their sign. If they want to allow timeshare weeks to be exchanged for loyalty points, then I would expect VSE inventory to find its way into the hotel reservation system as compensation for the MRP exchange. If they do that, then why shouldn't you or I be able to use cash or MRPs to book nights at a VSE timeshare through the Marriott hotel reservation system?

For actual timeshare reservations, of course, VSE will likely maintain their own separate systems for those weeks/points reservations just like MVW maintains their own DC Points and Weeks reservations systems that are separate from the hotel systems. As a result, I would expect that II will continue to be the only way to do a timeshare exchange between the two systems. But for VSE or MVW to play in the hotel reservations system and loyalty program world - they have to look to Marriott International's systems (assuming that Marriott International will eventually consolidate Westin, Sheraton, W, Aloft, etc all onto the existing Marriott reservation system).

As long as the Westin and Sheraton brands are on the VSE timeshares, I would expect them to try to maintain some kind of linkage into the same loyalty program used by Westin and Sheraton hotels - which presumably will be Marriott Rewards - and that will likely mean that VSE inventory will find its way into the Marriott International hotel reservation system to be bookable by anyone with cash or MRPs as a hotel stay.

I guess there is also another direction that VSE could go due to their ownership by ILG. If they decide they would rather move to more closely associate with the other ILG timeshare brand - Hyatt - they could eventually take the Westin and Sheraton names off of the VSE properties and bring them under the Hyatt umbrella. That would allow them to participate in the Hyatt loyalty program and use the Hyatt reservation system for hotel-type stays. I know they say now that the intent is to maintain the Westin and Sheraton brands, but that can always change depending on the licensing contract termination provisions and merger agreement terms.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 20, 2015)

Does MVW really maintain their own reservation system or are they still using Marriott Internationals? I know that they have their own website for making a reservation, but as soon as you make a week or points reservation, it shows up instantly on Marriott.com. I suspect that MVW's reservation portal is just an overlay on the existing Marriott International reservation system. I don't know if Starwoods reservation system works similarly. I know when I made an exchange in to Westin Lagunamar, I couldn't find any way to add my SPG number to the stay (to see it online in the Starwood reservation system). I added it at checkin and did earn points on incidentals.

There is one difference today between Marriott Vacation Club stays and Starwood Timeshare stays. Starwood owners staying on a timeshare stay do not earn nights in SPG. Marriott timeshare owners staying in a timeshare property on an owner, points, or even II exchange stay do earn elite nights in Marriott Rewards. This has been a small gripe of Starwood owners. Will that change in the future if Starwood owners start using Marriott Rewards as their base loyalty program?

One question is how will ILG try to monetize inventory that they get from owners who convert their week to loyalty points. They could always list them as getaways on II. Of course, I think that they could get a better return to try to sell them through their brands website, in this case as indicated it would be Marriott.com. That inventory would then be available to be booked by the general public with cash and by Marriott Rewards members using points.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 20, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> Does MVW really maintain their own reservation system or are they still using Marriott Internationals? I know that they have their own website for making a reservation, but as soon as you make a week or points reservation, it shows up instantly on Marriott.com. I suspect that MVW's reservation portal is just an overlay on the existing Marriott International reservation system.



Based on what I've read in the MVW 10-K reports, they initially utilized Marriott systems, but have been working to separate from the Marriott International systems and convert the systems onto their own technology platform. Here's some text from the 2014 MVW 10-K that addresses this:



> Following the Spin-Off, Marriott International continued to provide us with certain information technology, payroll, human resources and other administrative services pursuant to transition services agreements, most of which we had ceased using as of the end of 2013. In connection with our continued organizational and separation related activities, we continue to incur certain expenses to complete our separation from Marriott International. These costs primarily relate to establishing our own information technology systems and services, independent payroll and accounts payable functions and reorganizing existing human resources, information technology, and related finance and accounting organizations to support our stand-alone public company needs. We expect these efforts to be substantially completed in 2015.



Because of the need to interface with MRPs and the hotel reservations systems, there are likely back-end interfaces back to the Marriott International systems to handle those tasks.

And as an aside, maybe that technology conversion to their own systems and servers was why their systems were down for maintenance over the weekend a couple weeks ago, and why the system seems to be having some challenges right now.




dioxide45 said:


> One question is how will ILG try to monetize inventory that they get from owners who convert their week to loyalty points. They could always list them as getaways on II. Of course, I think that they could get a better return to try to sell them through their brands website, in this case as indicated it would be Marriott.com. That inventory would then be available to be booked by the general public with cash and by Marriott Rewards members using points.



I wouldn't think ILG would have a choice. It would seem to me that any weeks that owners convert to loyalty points would be the "property" of the company that runs the loyalty program, not ILG. As I understand it, when a MVW owner exchanges for MRPs, Marriott International gets a unit from MVW to list in their hotel system. I assume VSE and Starwood would work the same way until the merger with Marriott international is concluded, after which time, Marriott would get the week in exchange for giving the loyalty points. The hotel company is giving the owner points in their loyalty program in exchange for the week, so that hotel company needs to get something in return for those points - so they would get the week to rent out in their similarly branded hotel network.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 20, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> I wouldn't think ILG would have a choice. It would seem to me that any weeks that owners convert to loyalty points would be the "property" of the company that runs the loyalty program, not ILG. As I understand it, when a MVW owner exchanges for MRPs, Marriott International gets a unit from MVW to list in their hotel system. I assume VSE and Starwood would work the same way until the merger with Marriott international is concluded, after which time, Marriott would get the week in exchange for giving the loyalty points. The hotel company is giving the owner points in their loyalty program in exchange for the week, so that hotel company needs to get something in return for those points - so they would get the week to rent out in their similarly branded hotel network.



I don't think this is how it works. It is my understanding that MVW converts a week to MR points. Then they pay Marriott International a fee to actually buy those points from Marriott Rewards to give to the owner (they probably buy them in bulk at the beginning of the year). Chase does the same thing when they buy points to give to card holders. Loyalty programs make huge money on just selling points to other companies to give away.

MVW then lists the week for rent on Marriott.com. Marriott International collects a fee/commission when the week rents. The same kind of thing happens with all reservations made on Marriott.com for their franchise hotels. MVC collects the difference in hopes that it covers the fees paid to buy those points. I suspect they do quite well given their rental income profits.

Marriott International isn't taking on that risk of if the week rents or not. They leave that on MVW.


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## JIMinNC (Nov 20, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think this is how it works. It is my understanding that MVW converts a week to MR points. Then they pay Marriott International a fee to actually buy those points from Marriott Rewards to give to the owner (they probably buy them in bulk at the beginning of the year). Chase does the same thing when they buy points to give to card holders. Loyalty programs make huge money on just selling points to other companies to give away.
> 
> MVW then lists the week for rent on Marriott.com. Marriott International collects a fee/commission when the week rents. The same kind of thing happens with all reservations made on Marriott.com for their franchise hotels. MVC collects the difference in hopes that it covers the fees paid to buy those points. I suspect they do quite well given their rental income profits.
> 
> Marriott International isn't taking on that risk of if the week rents or not. They leave that on MVW.



Yes, I think you are right. That makes a lot more sense than the way I was saying. Rental income is a line item on VAC's income statement, so that would mean they would have to retain those weeks until they rent to be able to book that income. Makes sense. I should have thought about that. Thanks for the clarification.

So based on that, your original question makes more sense. When VSE/ILG buys MRP loyalty points from Marriott in the future after the programs combine, would they rather keep the week in the II Getaway system or rent it through Marriott.com. I agree with your original opinion that there would likely be better monetary value from rentals on Marriott.com - unless they acquired more of a given week/time period than they thought they could rent that way, in which case they might throw some over to II Getaways.


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## Harry (Nov 20, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> ......
> 
> I'm so confused reading all these TUG posts because it's still unclear which transactions have been completed, and there hasn't been much talk at all about possible impediments in any of the processes.  It seems there are still too many moving parts to be able to get into minute details of how the respective customer loyalty programs will work, especially as they'll affiliate with the timeshare companies.


....

As one who knows a little about these mergers suggest you re-read posts by JI MinNC and dioxide45 .  They have pretty much nailed what most likely will occur. Bottom line there is still some negotiating to go and some serious issues to be resolved. 

Harry


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## dioxide45 (Nov 20, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> So, if we assume that VSE did, in fact, negotiate to continue to participate in SPG or any successor program,



I would wonder how much negotiating really went on. In reality, VSE is still part of Starwood hotels. So the deal was really written up while the company is still one. It would be like the division leader at a company negotiating with the division leader at another but the CEO has the ultimate call, and that CEO is going to remain with only one of the two companies. Which one would he/she side with?

However, they usually have advisors in there to assist with spinoffs like this. Those advisors are there to make sure that there is value added for the shareholders of both the original company and the spinco.


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## SMHarman (Nov 21, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> Yes, I think you are right. That makes a lot more sense than the way I was saying. Rental income is a line item on VAC's income statement, so that would mean they would have to retain those weeks until they rent to be able to book that income. Makes sense. I should have thought about that. Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> So based on that, your original question makes more sense. When VSE/ILG buys MRP loyalty points from Marriott in the future after the programs combine, would they rather keep the week in the II Getaway system or rent it through Marriott.com. I agree with your original opinion that there would likely be better monetary value from rentals on Marriott.com - unless they acquired more of a given week/time period than they thought they could rent that way, in which case they might throw some over to II Getaways.


But Starwood VVE deeds gift un rented inventory to HOT at 60 day's. 

That is deeded so should still happen.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 21, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> But Starwood VVE deeds gift un rented inventory to HOT at 60 day's.
> 
> That is deeded so should still happen.



Are you talking about unreserved inventory? Where owners fail to make a reservation? Marriott has something similar in their CC&Rs where unreserved inventory goes to MVCI at 75 days. If similar, I would think that unreserved inventory goes to SVO. SVO is being spunoff in to a new company that will become part of ILG. So that inventory won't go to HOT which will become part of MAR. Any unreserved inventory goes to ILG to do with as they wish.


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## SMHarman (Nov 21, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> Are you talking about unreserved inventory? Where owners fail to make a reservation? Marriott has something similar in their CC&Rs where unreserved inventory goes to MVCI at 75 days. If similar, I would think that unreserved inventory goes to SVO. SVO is being spunoff in to a new company that will become part of ILG. So that inventory won't go to HOT which will become part of MAR. Any unreserved inventory goes to ILG to do with as they wish.


Are you sure?  That inventory is often dribs and drabs of weeks and a lot less useful to ILG than to HOT/MAR. 

It's also unresolved (at least publicly) who takes ownership of the HOT owned VVE weeks that they used to provide baseline inventory into the hotel system. 
VVE inventory (in my thinking) parts out to. 
1. Used by owners at own resort. 
2. Used be owners through SVN
3. Converted to SO (which I historically understood to be a trade. HOT got the week. HOT paid in SO)
4.  Week's traded in II
5. Week's owned by HOT for hotel night stays. 
6. Residual days at 60 day's. 

1, 2, and 4 are known quantities. 

How 3, 5 and 6 are handled going forward are still not 100% clear. 

I think MAR confuses this. If the Chinese bought HOT 3 5 AND 6 would look clearly unchanged.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 21, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> Are you sure?  That inventory is often dribs and drabs of weeks and a lot less useful to ILG than to HOT/MAR.
> 
> It's also unresolved (at least publicly) who takes ownership of the HOT owned VVE weeks that they used to provide baseline inventory into the hotel system.
> VVE inventory (in my thinking) parts out to.
> ...



For 3, did you mean StarPoints not StarOptions? If SOs, isn't that the same as 2?

Right now HOT is VSE. So right now any week not reserved by an owner goes to HOT. After the spinoff, VSE will be on its own and I would highly suspect would take all related timeshare business with them. Why would HOT retain ownership of those weeks that owners don't reserve? I suspect it comes down to the wording in the CC&R, but it is likely worded to indicate that home user periods not reserved by an owner revert to the club manager or developer.

I am not sure I understand why it would be less confusing if HOT wasn't sold to MAR? Wouldn't the question still be there as to who owns unreserved intervals?

I suspect with 3, if you meant StarPoints, all that will happen in the future is that VSE will buy MR points and give those to people that convert their week to loyalty points. VSE will then list the week for rent to monetize the week to cover what they paid for the loyalty points.


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## SMHarman (Nov 21, 2015)

Yes I did mean starpoints. 

I think if Marriott and another loyalty program were not immediately muddying the water there would be less conflation of process. 

And if vse get those weeks then that creates the curiosity of a westin or Sheraton branded resort that cannot be booked on their website (or the Marriott website)  

Even now you can book nights and weekends and partial weeks in these resorts on their website and the same for the Marriott TS resorts on the Marriott site.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 21, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> Yes I did mean starpoints.
> 
> I think if Marriott and another loyalty program were not immediately muddying the water there would be less conflation of process.
> 
> ...



There is no reason that a week that ILG/VSE controls that carries the Sheraton or Westin name can't be rented on Starwood's website or in the future Marriott.com. Marriott Vacation Club controls a lot of inventory, their main outlet to rent those weeks is Marriott.com. Being part of the brand requires an affiliation agreement. All those hotels that carry the Marriott brands and Starwood brands are independently owned, yet they all list on Marriott.com and Starwood's website. Marriott Vacation Club is an independent company with an affiliation/licensing agreement.

All the unsold inventory, the inventory that owners convert to MR points and inventory not reserved by owners falls under the control of Marriott Vacation Club. They list it for rent on Marriott.com. When it rents, Marriott International take a fee and Marriott Vacation Club gets the remaining proceeds which are gross profit to the company. The hope is that the profit outweighs their cost to acquire that inventory (ie buying points).


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## SMHarman (Nov 21, 2015)

This is true. Just like another franchisee with the brand on the shingle. 
Actually this makes more sense in the asset light world.


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## BocaBoy (Nov 21, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> Depends on the legal agreements.
> 
> IANAA but if I were writing the original VVE separation agreement the contract would say 'SPG program or its successor or any program the SPG program is merged into.


Of course it depends on the legal agreements, but it is unlikely that this is locked in stone.  They still need to develop the joint loyalty program and companies always reserve the right to discontinue, change, etc.  Certain brands and certain properties are often excluded from loyalty programs or treated differently than other brands.  It will be interesting to see what happens, but I would be shocked if this has been pre-determined.  It certainly is not an automatic thing just because the timeshares carry a Westin or Sheraton name.  Heck, even a few MVCI properties do not participate in Marriott Rewards, and they carry the Marriott or Ritz Carlton name.


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## Werner Weiss (Nov 21, 2015)

Here's how I look at it...

For many years, Marriott and Starwood timeshares have each involved four major components:

The owners
The timeshare business entity
The hotel branding entity
The exchange company
The owners buy weeks or points, pay the annual maintenance fees, and take very nice vacations.

The timeshare business entity builds, markets, and operates branded timeshares. It can be a subsidiary of the hotel branding entity, or it can be a standalone company, or it can be owned by another company. Marriott and Starwood once thought it was good idea to own timeshare subsidiaries outright; now both companies think it's a better for those entities to have different shareholders. But the function of the timeshare business entity has not changed.

The hotel branding entity owns and markets hotels brands, operates a hotel reservation system, operates a guest loyalty program, and rents out timeshare inventory that, for one reason or another, has moved into its reservation system. Marriott and Starwood are on the path to becoming a single company.

The traditional exchange company for Marriott and Starwood has generally been Interval International, and that's likely to continue. But the move toward timeshare points has moved more exchange activity into the timeshare business entity.

For any of these major components, there can be all sorts changes — including spinoffs, new business names, management shakeups, and mergers and acquisitions. However, that doesn't change which component performs which function or the relationships between them.

Changing ownership does not change contractual obligations. Contracts are written with clauses that obligate new owners. Contracts can be renegotiated, but only if there's a good reason.

If there's a question of how things will work in the future, the simple answer is just as in the past. The company names and who owns what will be different, but otherwise nothing significant has changed.

Okay, I know there are more than four components, especially when you get into asset-light models. But subcontractors, investors, and other players are peripheral to the main components.


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## steve b (Nov 22, 2015)

*The Future Marriott/Starwood Timeshare,  What will it actually look like?*

Given the upcoming acquisition of the Starwood Hotel Company(HOT) by Marriott Worldwide International (VAC), and the various mergers of the companion timeshare spinoffs, I wonder what the future timeshare product will look like given all of the behind the scene cross-marketing agreements that are probably now taking place or have in all likelihood already taken place,
I believe that the future Marriott Destination Club Product will include all of the Starwood Star Option Timeshares (which are a great portfolio) and the ability to convert whatever the new named rewards point currency to all hotels of the new merged company.   I also believe there will be a small initial conversion fee for all Starwood Timeshare owners to be come part of the Marriott Destination Club Program and a huge round of new sales and new owners.   All owners should be able to rent their points to one another as the program now allows.   Owners from both companies probably will be allowed to merge their points associated with their units to head to the top tier elite status both in the hotel program and the Marriott Vacation Club system.   I think the merged product should be better and lead to more sales for the recently depressed Marriott Timeshare Company (VAC)
As an elite owner in both programs, and a major renter of MVC points which are easy rentals I hope I will now have many more points for rent and better new benefits to come.   What do all think of what's ahead for all of us?  Hopefully some good stuff to make buying the new hybrid timeshare worthwhile again


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## bazzap (Nov 22, 2015)

steve b said:


> Given the upcoming acquisition of the Starwood Hotel Company(HOT) by Marriott Worldwide International (VAC), and the various mergers of the companion timeshare spinoffs, I wonder what the future timeshare product will look like given all of the behind the scene cross-marketing agreements that are probably now taking place or have in all likelihood already taken place,
> I believe that the future Marriott Destination Club Product will include all of the Starwood Star Option Timeshares (which are a great portfolio) and the ability to convert whatever the new named rewards point currency to all hotels of the new merged company.   I also believe there will be a small initial conversion fee for all Starwood Timeshare owners to be come part of the Marriott Destination Club Program and a huge round of new sales and new owners.   All owners should be able to rent their points to one another as the program now allows.   Owners from both companies probably will be allowed to merge their points associated with their units to head to the top tier elite status both in the hotel program and the Marriott Vacation Club system.   I think the merged product should be better and lead to more sales for the recently depressed Marriott Timeshare Company (VAC)
> As an elite owner in both programs, and a major renter of MVC points which are easy rentals I hope I will now have many more points for rent and better new benefits to come.   What do all think of what's ahead for all of us?  Hopefully some good stuff to make buying the new hybrid timeshare worthwhile again


I am sure this has been covered before, but why would you say
"I believe that the future Marriott Destination Club Product will include all of the Starwood Star Option Timeshares"
when the proposed Marriott/Starwood deal is exclusively a hotel deal and it has already been announced that Interval Leisure Group is acquiring Starwood's Vacation Ownership business?
https://s1.q4cdn.com/483583335/files/doc_news/2015/ILG-Vistana-Press-Release-FINAL-10-28-15.pdf


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## Helios (Nov 22, 2015)

bazzap said:


> I am sure this has been covered before, but why would you say
> "I believe that the future Marriott Destination Club Product will include all of the Starwood Star Option Timeshares"
> when the proposed Marriott/Starwood deal is exclusively a hotel deal and it has already been announced that Interval Leisure Group is acquiring Starwood's Vacation Ownership business?
> https://s1.q4cdn.com/483583335/files/doc_news/2015/ILG-Vistana-Press-Release-FINAL-10-28-15.pdf



Personally, I would love it if that happened.  But I am not sure that is where things are going.  However, for that to happen, MVC would need to buy SVN  from ILG (assuming the sale goes through) or ILG would need to buy MVC and merge the program's together.  If that happens, they should merge Hyatt as well.

Just dreaming...:hysterical:


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## Helios (Nov 22, 2015)

Also, as a lifetime SPG Plat, I am very worried about how Marriott will address this situation.  No matter what they do, it will be bad news for SPG Plats IMHO.


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## steve b (Nov 22, 2015)

Barry it is just for that reason that the timeshare companies should eventually have cross-marketing agreements or further mergers. If you look at the recent stock performance of Marriott Worldwide International (VAC) it is down almost 30 percent in the last 3 months and many Marriott shareholders (MAR) are also owners off the spinned off stock which needs a big boost and this will be a way to create the much needed sales of timeshares to increase currently missing profits.  This is exactly the same rational for the merger of the hotel company


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## dioxide45 (Nov 22, 2015)

steve b said:


> Given the upcoming acquisition of the Starwood Hotel Company(HOT) by Marriott Worldwide International (VAC), and the various mergers of the companion timeshare spinoffs, I wonder what the future timeshare product will look like given all of the behind the scene cross-marketing agreements that are probably now taking place or have in all likelihood already taken place,
> I believe that the future Marriott Destination Club Product will include all of the Starwood Star Option Timeshares (which are a great portfolio) and the ability to convert whatever the new named rewards point currency to all hotels of the new merged company.   I also believe there will be a small initial conversion fee for all Starwood Timeshare owners to be come part of the Marriott Destination Club Program and a huge round of new sales and new owners.   All owners should be able to rent their points to one another as the program now allows.   Owners from both companies probably will be allowed to merge their points associated with their units to head to the top tier elite status both in the hotel program and the Marriott Vacation Club system.   I think the merged product should be better and lead to more sales for the recently depressed Marriott Timeshare Company (VAC)
> As an elite owner in both programs, and a major renter of MVC points which are easy rentals I hope I will now have many more points for rent and better new benefits to come.   What do all think of what's ahead for all of us?  Hopefully some good stuff to make buying the new hybrid timeshare worthwhile again



Starwood timeshares are not merging with Marriott Vacation Club. What you say is what I would expect from a Vistana Vacations Experiences and Marriott Vacations Worldwide merger. Certainly not from a Vistana Vacations Experiences and Interval Leisure Group merger. Even the title of this thread indicates that the merger is not related to the timeshare entities.

There will be no option for Starwood owners to convert to the Destinations Club and no option for DC points owners to convert to StarOptions. Different companies, different clubs. Vistana Vacations Experiences being owned by Interval may end up giving them better access to Hyatt Vacation Club, which is owned by Interval Leisure Group.

I do think that Marriott owners will have better access to Westin and Sheraton timeshare properties through the Marriott Rewards program. Though that doesn't make DC rented DC points more valuable since you can't use those to convert to Marriott Reward points.

I also think that Starwood owners will have easier access to Marriott timeshares when they merge the loyalty program. I highly expect that Starwood owners will still have the ability to trade their weeks for loyalty points. I don't buy the doom and gloom on that.

I think the real challenge will be with Vistana Vacations Experiences being able to market their properties outside of their existing 22. Currently MVW does a lot of marketing from Marriott hotel properties. How will that look when Marriott International owns the brands that both Marriott Vacations Worldwide and Vistana Vacations Experiences both sell? Especially when MVW is carrying the Marriott name and Vistana isn't carrying any name that the new Marriott owns.


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## SMHarman (Nov 22, 2015)

bazzap said:


> I am sure this has been covered before, but why would you say
> "I believe that the future Marriott Destination Club Product will include all of the Starwood Star Option Timeshares"
> when the proposed Marriott/Starwood deal is exclusively a hotel deal and it has already been announced that Interval Leisure Group is acquiring Starwood's Vacation Ownership business?
> https://s1.q4cdn.com/483583335/files/doc_news/2015/ILG-Vistana-Press-Release-FINAL-10-28-15.pdf





moto x said:


> Personally, I would love it if that happened.  But I am not sure that is where things are going.  However, for that to happen, MVC would need to buy SVN  from ILG (assuming the sale goes through) or ILG would need to buy MVC and merge the program's together.  If that happens, they should merge Hyatt as well.
> 
> Just dreaming...:hysterical:


Realistically this is a cross currency mash up. 

A retail SVN converts to Marriott Rewards and spends on a Marriott timeshare. 

Of course the exchange rate will be so bad you may as well rent yours and rent where you want to go.


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## steve b (Nov 22, 2015)

*The Best of SPG and Marriott Rewards*

I am also a lifetime Platinum at spg and a lifetime Gold at Marriott.  I think what is likely to happen is your elite nights with both programs should be merged creating Lifetime Marriott Platinum at 750 nights, and I believe a new even higher level will also be created that gives some extra perks like guaranteed suite upgrades based on availability at 72 hours before arrival like the airlines do for first class upgrades for their best customers.  I also believe that there will be systemwide suite upgrades for Platinum members of both programs rather than just a upgrade to a concierge room or better view as Marriot now promises for Platinums.  The new program will be the best industrywide for awhile to lure us all in enthusiastically in favor of the new program to build strong customer loyalty.  Once we are hooked benefits will dilute as the market competition will slowly allow.  But I think very smoothe sailing for all of us for awhile. HOPING!


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## dioxide45 (Nov 22, 2015)

steve b said:


> I am also a lifetime Platinum at spg and a lifetime Gold at Marriott.  I think what is likely to happen is your elite nights with both programs should be merged creating Lifetime Marriott Platinum at 750 nights, and I believe a new even higher level will also be created that gives some extra perks like guaranteed suite upgrades based on availability at 72 hours before arrival like the airlines do for first class upgrades for their best customers.  I also believe that there will be systemwide suite upgrades for Platinum members of both programs rather than just a upgrade to a concierge room or better view as Marriot now promises for Platinums.  The new program will be the best industrywide for awhile to lure us all in enthusiastically in favor of the new program to build strong customer loyalty.  Once we are hooked benefits will dilute as the market competition will slowly allow.  But I think very smoothe sailing for all of us for awhile. HOPING!



The difference between SPG and MR elite lifetime levels is that MAR tracks on nights and lifetime points, SPG tracks on nights and years at elite level. If they merge the two and just combine the total lifetime nights, they are still missing that other element. Does MR track years at an elite level? I also don't know if SPG tracks lifetime points. 

The best way to combine would be to just add the number of lifetime nights that SPG members have to whatever they have in MR. Then do the same with lifetime points. Then they could easily determine one's lifetime elite level is using MR current levels. Pretty easy. It would mean though that perhaps a lot of SPG folks may go from SPG lifetime gold down to MR lifetime silver if they don't also have a lot of Marriott activity. Though of course those that visit both properties pretty evenly would end up with a pretty healthy bump in lifetime nights and lifetime points.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 22, 2015)

steve b said:


> Given the upcoming acquisition of the Starwood Hotel Company(HOT) by Marriott Worldwide International (VAC)



I think this may be where you are getting confused. HOT is not being acquired by VAC. HOT is being acquired by MAR.


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## Ken555 (Nov 22, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I think this may be where you are getting confused. HOT is not being acquired by VAC.




Why let a little confusion interfere? The post was certainly entertaining, if not based in fact.


Sent from my iPad


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## SueDonJ (Nov 22, 2015)

This is like looking at a bowl of alphabet soup and trying to read it as a novel.  It helps me to keep all the parts in place by doing this:

Marriott, Intl. - Acronym MI - Stock Symbol MAR = the Marriott hotel business

Marriott Vacations Worldwide - Acronym MVW - Stock Symbol VAC = the Marriott-affiliated timeshare business which was spun off from MI in 2011

Marriott Rewards - Acronym MR = the Marriott customer loyalty program affiliated with MI and MVW

Starwood Hotels and Resorts Worldwide, Inc. - Acronym SW - Stock Symbol HOT = the Starwood Hotel business which it has been announced will be acquired by MAR sometime in 2016

Starwood Vacation Network - Acronym SVN = the Starwood timeshare business which is in the process of being re-named Vistana Signature Experiences - Acronym VSE, and spun off to Interval Leisure Group, Inc. - Acronym ILG - Stock Symbol IILG, expected completion Q2 2016

Starwood Preferred Guest - Acronym SPG = the Starwood customer loyalty program affiliated with SW hotels and timeshares until completion of the timeshare spin-off and hotel business acquisition, at which time the affiliations will come under the MR umbrella in as-yet-to-be-announced form

When all is said and done as it's been announced so far, it should shake out as others are theorizing that the current Marriott and Starwood timeshare owners will have access to each others inventory only through cash stays by way of MI and customer loyalty points redemption earnings/stays by way of MR.

IMO there's a very good possibility that when the SW hotel business comes under the MI umbrella then the MVW Destination Club owners/members will be able to access them through the DC Explorer Collection, and possibly an ILG portal can open for certain VSE owners/members to similarly access MI hotel inventory.

Integrating the two timeshare companies could be done more thoroughly through the DC Exchange Company because its governing docs as written allow for such an affiliation, but there are still way too many moving parts that have to be set in place before that can happen.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 22, 2015)

SueDonJ said:


> IMO there's a very good possibility that when the SW hotel business comes under the MI umbrella then the MVW Destination Club owners/members will be able to access them through the DC Explorer Collection, and possibly an ILG portal can open for certain VSE owners/members to similarly access MI hotel inventory.



I am not sure that using DC points through the Explorer Collection to get in to Westin and Starwood timeshares will be possible. Those Explorer Collection properties are available only because of special agreements between the property owner and VAC. I don't think there is an agreement with MAR and VAC to make those properties available.

I don't see IILG making an agreement for people to use their DC points to access a Westin or Starwood timeshare. Now it is very possible that some of the Westin and Sheraton (or other currently branded Starwood property) might be available to DC owners through the Explorer Collection. I just wouldn't count on it. The properties available in the Explorer Collection are pretty limited in the overall scheme of things. I would expect that if there is already say a Paris option in the Explorer collection at a Marriott brand, VAC won't rush out to create a new agreement with a Starwood brand.

It is possible that VSE will go out and start making new agreements with some of the hotel brands for people to use StarOptions to book hotel stays, but why haven't they done that already. I think because they expect people to use their week and convert it to StarPoints for the same access.


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## gkbiiii (Nov 22, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> Starwood timeshares are not merging with Marriott Vacation Club. What you say is what I would expect from a Vistana Vacations Experiences and Marriott Vacations Worldwide merger. Certainly not from a Vistana Vacations Experiences and Interval Leisure Group merger. Even the title of this thread indicates that the merger is not related to the timeshare entities.
> 
> There will be no option for Starwood owners to convert to the Destinations Club and no option for DC points owners to convert to StarOptions. Different companies, different clubs. Vistana Vacations Experiences being owned by Interval may end up giving them better access to Hyatt Vacation Club, which is owned by Interval Leisure Group.
> 
> ...




This is exactly my thought too (though much better presented): I believe what your saying, is the most likely outcome!


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## SueDonJ (Nov 22, 2015)

gkbiiii said:


> This is exactly my thought too (though much better presented): I believe what your saying, is the most likely outcome!



Over on the Starwood forum you said this about the affiliation between what is now the Starwood timeshares (which will be VSE under the ILG umbrella) and what is now the Starwood Preferred Guest loyalty program (which will be Marriott Rewards under the MI umbrella):


> As well, I believe that the interval sale will mean that their is NO longer ANY association to even a new hotel rewards program.



That is not at all what Dioxide is saying, which you're here claiming to be in agreement with.  I'm confused.


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## Wally3433 (Nov 23, 2015)

*The Best of Both Programs, AND THEN SOME!*

Straight from the horse's mouth.  We need to hold him to the "and then some" comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sg4WFo-Mfg


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## BocaBoy (Nov 25, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> The difference between SPG and MR elite lifetime levels is that MAR tracks on nights and lifetime points, SPG tracks on nights and years at elite level. If they merge the two and just combine the total lifetime nights, they are still missing that other element. *Does MR track years at an elite level?* I also don't know if SPG tracks lifetime points.



I don't know what Starwood tracks, but Marriott at least used to track years at elite levels and I would suspect they still do.  Until a few years ago when they made their lifetime elite levels official and published them, Marriott required 10 years of Marriott Rewards membership and at least one year at the elite level they were awarding you.  I suspect both companies track almost everything.


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## hhoope01 (Nov 25, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> Until a few years ago when they made their lifetime elite levels official and published them, Marriott required 10 years of Marriott Rewards membership and at least one year at the elite level they were awarding you.


Actually, I think Marriott used to require at least 12 years as a MR member (but your point that they tracked years of membership, not number of years in each elite level is valid).  I'm not sure if they have been tracking amount of time (years) at each elite level.  So while SPG tracks # of years at each elite level, I'm a bit doubtful Marriott has tracked that.


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## Werner Weiss (Nov 25, 2015)

Most likely, Marriott and Starwood capture and store the raw data for stays by their loyalty program members — along with "events" such as being awarded elite levels, making points redemptions, and earning promotional points.

Although we only see summaries such as "lifetime points" and "lifetime nights" on the web, the companies are probably in a position to analyze the data in many different ways.

Calculating such things as "years at an elite level" would just require IT to run jobs to generate those numbers.

There's a thread on FlyerTalk with Starwood Preferred Guest members expecting the worst from the merger and what it will mean to the SPG program and elite benefits. 

I expect the combined Marriott Rewards - Starwood Preferred Guest program to be much like the current Marriott Rewards program, but presented in a way that retains the loyalty of Starwood Preferred Guest members.

The merger won't actually happen until the middle of 2016. Then, it's likely to take at least 12 months, and probably longer, until there's a combined loyalty program. During that time, MR and SPG members will be able to earn and redeem under the current rules.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 21, 2016)

The Marriott/Starwood deal is back on again:

news.marriott.com link

_"*Marriott International and Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Sign Amended Merger Agreement*
*Bethesda, MD, and Stamford, CT, March 21, 2016* – Marriott International, Inc. (NASDAQ: MAR) and Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. (NYSE: HOT) announced today that the companies have signed an amendment to their definitive merger agreement that creates the world’s largest hotel company. ..."_


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## x3 skier (Mar 21, 2016)

SueDonJ said:


> The Marriott/Starwood deal is back on again:
> 
> news.marriott.com link
> 
> ...



It ain't over till it's over

Cheers


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## VacationForever (Mar 21, 2016)

This is the best news, period.  There are info security concerns in Chinese company acquisitions of US / International hotels.  Plus the Chinese government can change the wind and tide of their positions in foreign holdings, depending on who is their premier.  They can simply not honor existing SPG points.  The list goes on.  

The golf membership we have, which we just terminated, was part of Pacific Links, a China company.  Their business model was to sell expensive memberships to their locals, and then offer to send them overseas to play at their courses.  The Chinese government came down hard  on the model, due to change in their leadership, defining golf as elitist and the company  had to shut down the business model, which meant that they now have to sell off their overseas courses.  It is a mess.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 21, 2016)

And more from Arne Sorenson's email to MAR employees that's been posted at viewfromthewing.com:

_"... Could Anbang or others still attempt to make another bid for Starwood? Yes, because Starwood is a public company, that’s possible and is inherent in the transaction process, but no bids can be made or considered after Starwood’s shareholder vote takes place.  We’ve made it clear to Starwood that this offer is aligned with the value we see in Starwood – particularly after months of due diligence through our integration process.  The revised agreement includes a break-up fee of $450 million due to Marriott should Starwood ultimately decide to accept another bid.  But our focus right now is on continuing the process of integration and completing the closing conditions, and we and Starwood believe this revised bid offers the best course for Starwood and Marriott shareholders. ..."_


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## lizap (Mar 21, 2016)

I fully expect another offer from Anbang.


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## pedro47 (Mar 21, 2016)

Sounds like a biding war may start.


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## lizap (Mar 21, 2016)

The Chinese have bottomless pockets.  Marriott does NOT want to overpay and overextend itself...



pedro47 said:


> Sounds like a biding war may start.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 21, 2016)

lizap said:


> The Chinese have bottomless pockets.  Marriott does NOT want to overpay and overextend itself...



But no companies stay successful by overbidding/spending on anything, so it doesn't matter which company has more to spend.  Why would Anbang want to overpay any more than Marriott would?


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## dioxide45 (Mar 21, 2016)

As much as I like Marriott, consolidation in any industry is generally bad for consumers. I would like to see Anbang, or another company successfully out bid Marriott on this one. Just look at what consolidation has done in the airline industry, low fuel prices but air fare rates sure haven't dropped in comparison.


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## GaryDouglas (Mar 22, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> As much as I like Marriott, consolidation in any industry is generally bad for consumers. I would like to see Anbang, or another company successfully out bid Marriott on this one.



Although I agree this this sort of consolidation should be discouraged, it's equally or even worse that a company owned by the Communist Chinese should be allowed to buy it.

National security?


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## VacationForever (Mar 22, 2016)

...deleted


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## mj2vacation (Mar 22, 2016)

GaryDouglas said:


> Although I agree this this sort of consolidation should be discouraged, it's equally or even worse that a company owned by the Communist Chinese should be allowed to buy it.
> 
> National security?



Unfortunately, companies are not patriotic.   Just look at the tax strategies and employment practices of many "American" companies and the relentless push to offshore work.  

Disney is publicly taking it on the chin for abusing the H1B program, yet, they continue to use it.  They even have the outgoing American employees train the replacements. 

Carrier just moved a factory from The US to Mexico.  They are a part of United Technologies, one of the largest defense contractors.  It does not matter to them...

It is sad.


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 1, 2016)

Starwood Hotels Lost Its Chinese Suitor.  Now It's Marriott's Challenge. - by Geoff Colvin/ Leadership/ Starwood/ Fortune/ fortune.com

"Investors fear that Marriott is paying too much for Starwood.

The fight for Starwood HOT -4.85% is apparently over, but the story of what happened has yet to be told. We’ve been following this saga since Wu Xiaohui, CEO of China’s mysterious Anbang Insurance Group, disrupted a friendly deal for Marriott International MAR -5.69% to buy Starwood Hotels and Resorts just a few weeks before shareholders were scheduled to vote on it last Monday. Wu offered to pay a higher price than Marriott was paying; Marriott CEO Arne Sorenson then topped Wu’s bid; Wu topped Sorenson – and then late on Thursday withdrew his offer. It appears that Sorenson’s last offer, which the Starwood board under chairman Bruce Duncan had accepted, is now good enough to buy Starwood. Unless some entirely new bidder jumps in...."





 Pedestrians pass in front The Westin New York, a Starwood Hotel Bloomberg via Getty Images 

Richard


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## SueDonJ (Apr 9, 2016)

Letter today from Arne Sorenson:

_"We're excited to announce that we've secured shareholder approval for Marriott International to join together with Starwood Hotels & Resorts—a significant milestone towards creating the world's largest lodging company and strongest loyalty program in the industry. Since we announced our plans to merge with Starwood, you've raised questions about the impact of the merger on your membership and the Marriott Rewards® program. I want to take this opportunity to provide an update on where we stand.

Serving our valued guests has always been our priority at Marriott, and your feedback is important to us as we collaborate with Starwood on the vision for our loyalty programs.

After we become one company, we expect to run parallel loyalty programs while we engage in the complicated work of integration. During this period, there is no change to how you manage your Marriott Rewards account or book reservations, and you will maintain your existing member benefits for some time.

The good news is that we have many possibilities ahead of us because Marriott and Starwood both have great loyalty programs. We intend to draw upon the very best of both Marriott Rewards and Starwood Preferred Guest® (SPG®) to provide even more value to our members.

Here are just a few of the future opportunities we're excited about:
•	Giving our members access to our collective portfolio of 5,500 hotels and resorts in more than 100 countries.
•	Offering even more unique benefits to help members pursue their passions and greater opportunities for exclusive, once-in-a-lifetime experiences.
•	Personalized and relevant service before, during and after the hotel stay.
In the meantime, we're actively exploring ways to build bridges between the two programs to further enhance your experience.

Marriott remains committed to evolving our Marriott Rewards member benefits. Our recent announcement of Marriott Rewards Member Rates is the latest way we're showing our loyalty to our members. These new rates are exclusively designed to reward members with the lowest rates available across our portfolio when booking directly on Marriott.com, our easy-to-use app, our call centers or through select corporate travel professionals.

We are grateful for your loyalty, and we are listening to you and taking your input into consideration. Our merger is on track to close midyear, and as we have more news to share, we'll reach out to you. In the meantime, we will continue to provide you with the exceptional service and travel experience you have come to expect from us at Marriott. You can find the latest updates on Marriott.com and via Twitter (@marriottrewards), and as always, reach out to us through our hotels, at our website, in our Marriott Rewards Insiders community, on the Marriott app or via our call centers.

Thank you for your continued loyalty, and happy traveling! 


Arne Sorenson
President and Chief Executive Officer 
Marriott International, Inc."_


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## x3 skier (Apr 9, 2016)

The Similar Starwood Letter said nothing's going to happen to merge the MR and SPG programs until 2018. 

Cheers


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## Werner Weiss (Apr 9, 2016)

x3 skier said:


> The Similar Starwood Letter said nothing's going to happen to merge the MR and SPG programs until 2018.


Here's the full paragraph from Starwood:
Getting answers to these complicated, important questions will take time. In fact, we don’t anticipate launching a newly combined program until 2018. This means SPG will continue to run separately until then. In the meantime, we’re actively exploring ways to build bridges between the two programs to further enhance your experience.​Although there won't be a single, combined program until 2018, the merged company will "build bridges between the two programs" before then.

To me, the most obvious first step would be some sort of reciprocal recognition of elite status between the two programs.


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## bazzap (Apr 19, 2016)

*Marriott’s Integrating Some SPG Benefits Long Before the Merger*

If confirmed, this could offer some worthwhile early benefits of the merger, albeit primarily targeted at Marriott hotels.
Marriott’s Integrating Some SPG Benefits Long Before the Merger

http://thepointsguy.com/2016/04/mar...ail&utm_term=0_2b0b8ee2b7-5efbaef171-38463509


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## SueDonJ (Apr 19, 2016)

Here's the link from marriott.com:  Enhanced Benefits / Get More Rewards

Here's today's press release from news.marriott.com:  Members Get It — Introducing a New Experiences Marketplace and Elite Benefits


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## billymach4 (May 11, 2016)

*Lawsuit filed against Merger*

http://www.internationalmeetingsrev...filed-against-marriott-starwood-merger-102783

Marriott International’s acquisition of Starwood Hotels & Resorts has hit another speed bump: Owners of hotels in two major hub cities have filed a lawsuit claiming that the acquisition would violate their exclusivity agreements, Bloomberg reports.


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## Werner Weiss (May 11, 2016)

billymach4 said:


> http://www.internationalmeetingsrev...filed-against-marriott-starwood-merger-102783
> 
> Marriott International’s acquisition of Starwood Hotels & Resorts has hit another speed bump: Owners of hotels in two major hub cities have filed a lawsuit claiming that the acquisition would violate their exclusivity agreements, Bloomberg reports.



It's not surprising that there are a few hotels operating under franchise agreements from when Sheraton and Westin were single-brand hotel companies, not just brands of a multi-brand hotel company. I can imagine old contracts with exclusivity clauses that don't differentiate between the company and the brand.

The owners of those hotels might have some leverage to renegotiate with the combined Marriott-Starwood company. But I can't imagine a scenario where that would result in the merger falling through entirely.


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## bazzap (Sep 20, 2016)

It seems that with approval now from China, the conclusion of this deal is only a few days away.
Interesting times and exciting new possibilities.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...es-antitrust-approval-in-china-300330889.html
Marriott's Acquisition Of Starwood Receives Antitrust Approval In China
Starwood Anticipates Delisting of its Shares from Trading on the NYSE Before Market Open on September 23


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## Wally3433 (Sep 21, 2016)

I want access to Bora Bora!  Let's go!


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## pharmgirl (Sep 21, 2016)

Going to china again in March
Assume we will have choice of more hotels for points! Previously just st stayed at marriot family hotels, which are very nice


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## Werner Weiss (Sep 21, 2016)

According to Marriott CEO Arne Sorenson earlier this year, Marriott Rewards and Starwood Preferred Guest will be combined into a single program in 2018, but there will be "bridges" between them before then.

Here's my speculation regarding how the two systems will come together:

For the rest of 2016, nothing will change.

At some point in 2017, both programs will provide a mechanism to register for reciprocal elite status. There may also be a way to transfer points between the two programs, but this seems less likely, especially because the two point systems are not equivalent currencies — SPG points have two-to-three times the value per point but are harder to earn with hotel says. Marriott will have to deal with this difference, but not right away. Before the end of 2017, Marriott will announce the details of the combined program.

At some point in 2018, but probably not on January 1, the two systems will be combined. Point reservations made under the two old programs will be honored, even if the stays will be after the programs are combined. The new system will be a lot like Marriott Rewards, but there may be a new name and a new graphic look to recognize the significance of the SPG program and the loyalty of its members. SPG balances will be multiplied by 2.5 or 3 as they are moved into the combined system. Marriott's quasi-separate Ritz-Carlton Rewards program is likely to be fully incorporated into the combined program. The system of Marriott categories, SPG categories, and Rtz-Carlton/Edition tiers will be combined. The new categories are likely to be based on the current Marriott Rewards categories, but with a number of higher categories for luxury properties and future "category creep."

Again, this is all just speculation.


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 21, 2016)

Werner Weiss said:


> At some point in 2017, both programs will provide a mechanism to register for reciprocal elite status.



This alone would be a very nice perk for MR Platinum elite members.  I guess if there is going to be only one system how else could you manage it but this could bring some really nice upgrades at the higher end Starwood properties. It will be interesting how that is handled.


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