# 2019 Maintenance fees



## cbyrne1174

I just received my year end update for one of my contracts. Royal Garden is now 5.07 per thousand. Has anyone seen what Access fees are next year? I like using that number for comparison so I can see how my fees compare to the average ^_^


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## OutSkiing

cbyrne1174 said:


> I just received my year end update for one of my contracts. Royal Garden is now 5.07 per thousand. Has anyone seen what Access fees are next year? I like using that number for comparison so I can see how my fees compare to the average ^_^


I have not received mine yet.

But oddly enough, we were at an owners update on Sunday and they ran off the usual sheet showing all our ownings and the fees for each.  The sales lady thought they were 2018 fees but in fact they are all higher than my 2018 fees so I think they are the 2019 fees!  Yes .. it says rate year 2019!  I happened to take a picture on my cell phone:

CWA fee :  $5.99 per thousand (up from $5.76 in 2018)

The program fee for all resorts is now $.60 per thousand (up from $.58 in 2018)

The HOA breakdown by Maintenance fee / Reserve Fee / Taxes are not on this sheet .. just total HOA and Program fees.

Bob


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## Jan M.

Grand Desert, Tower 3, when from $4.66 to $4.82 so up .16
Waikiki Beach Walk went from $4.71 to $4.84 so up .13
Panama City Beach, Presidential Reserve, went from $4.32 to $4.50 so up .18


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## Melder

Grand Desert Tower 2 is going up to $4.73 per thousand points, up from $4.60 in '18.


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## HitchHiker71

Jan M. said:


> Grand Desert, Tower 3, when from $4.66 to $4.82 so up .16
> Waikiki Beach Walk went from $4.71 to $4.84 so up .13
> Panama City Beach, Presidential Reserve, went from $4.32 to $4.50 so up .18



Do these rates include the program fee as well?  I didn't realize PCB was that low, nice.


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## Sandy VDH

HitchHiker71 said:


> Do these rates include the program fee as well?  I didn't realize PCB was that low, nice.



No program fees are on top of that. 

Program fees went up 2 cents per thousand across the board:
Members without Plus Partners now .58 per 1,000 points or $135 whichever is greater
Members with Plus Partners now .60 per 1,000 points or $155 whichever is greater
PR Members now $0.66 per 1,000 points for the first one million points, then $0.60 per 1,000 points for the remaining points owned under the membership


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## Sandy VDH

Bonnet creek when from 5.87 to 6.16 so up 0.29 per 1,000 points

That is nearly double the increase from some of the other locations.


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## Jan M.

HitchHiker71 said:


> Do these rates include the program fee as well?  I didn't realize PCB was that low, nice.



Presidential reserve points at PCB pay higher maintenance fees than CWS, Club Wyndham Select, points at PCB. I believe all presidential reserve points are higher maintenance fees at all the resorts that are part of the presidential reserve program because PR owners are paying for the Registry Collection.


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## Richelle

Bali Hai Converted float week even $4.03  7.2% decrease 

Branson UDI $6.31   3% increase 

National Harbor UDI $4.24   2.5% increase


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## schoolmarm

National Harbor $4.24 (up 10¢/1000, matches Richelle's)
Sedona $5.26 (up 16¢/1000)
Bali Hai $3.66 (up 12¢/1000--Doesn't match Richelle's)  Mine is a EOY Wyndham Bali Hai Villas

These are assessments without the Program Fee (up 2¢/1000 from 58¢ to 60¢)


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## drepublic

HitchHiker71 said:


> Do these rates include the program fee as well?  I didn't realize PCB was that low, nice.



This is interesting.  We love Panama City and I own 326,000 at Clearwater.  I eventually want to get to VIP Silver and if PCB Fees are that low, would it be worth considering buying the minimum difference at PCB to get to VIP long term?  I realize I'll pay a premium for PCB.  Someone looking to upgrade points with several Access Points may consider doing what I did at Clearwater moving them in there...though my reasoning wasn't specifically for lowering maintenance fees rather gaining ARP, at that rate it may work for someone.


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## Richelle

schoolmarm said:


> National Harbor $4.24 (up 10¢/1000, matches Richelle's)
> Sedona $5.26 (up 16¢/1000)
> Bali Hai $3.66 (up 12¢/1000--Doesn't match Richelle's)  Mine is a EOY Wyndham Bali Hai Villas
> 
> These are assessments without the Program Fee (up 2¢/1000 from 58¢ to 60¢)



Bali Hai is weird in they have multiple rates.  If you look at 2017 rates, you’ll see there were several different rates.  Also, part of suspects that Wyndham may have been overcharging me which is why such a large decrease


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## Richelle

schoolmarm said:


> National Harbor $4.24 (up 10¢/1000, matches Richelle's)
> Sedona $5.26 (up 16¢/1000)
> Bali Hai $3.66 (up 12¢/1000--Doesn't match Richelle's)  Mine is a EOY Wyndham Bali Hai Villas
> 
> These are assessments without the Program Fee (up 2¢/1000 from 58¢ to 60¢)



Tapatalk doesn’t let me copy and paste, so I had to take a screen shot.  This is 2017’s reported rates.  Mine is a converted float week which is different then typical UDI. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





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## scootr5

*Smoky Mountains - 2.8% increase*
Maintenance Fees $3.85 
Reserve Fund $1.46
 Property Tax $0.16
TOTAL $5.47

*South Shore - 5.3% increase*
Maintenance Fees $3.33
Reserve Fund $0.68
Property Tax $0.12
TOTAL $4.13


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## scootr5

Sandy VDH said:


> Bonnet creek when from 5.87 to 6.16 so up 0.29 per 1,000 points
> 
> That is nearly double the increase from some of the other locations.



That's 4.9%, so larger than most (but still less than my South Shore).


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## Sandy VDH

scootr5 said:


> That's 4.9%, so larger than most (but still less than my South Shore).



Yes, but....

BC is now over $2 more per K than South Shore.   Don't be complaining about South Shore.


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## scootr5

Sandy VDH said:


> Yes, but....
> 
> BC is now over $2 more per K than South Shore.   Don't be complaining about South Shore.



It wasn't meant as a complaint, merely an observation.


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## spackler

*La Belle Maison UDI - 4% increase*
Maintenance Fees: $4.26
Reserve Fund: $0.98
Property Tax: $0.24
TOTAL $5.48


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## OutSkiing

We should all use Scott's format:

*CWA - 4% increase*
Maintenance Fees $5.86
Reserve Fund $0.13
Property Tax 
TOTAL $5.99

*National Harbor - 2.4% increase*
Maintenance Fees $3.12 
Reserve Fund $.65
Property Tax $0.47
TOTAL $4.24

*Ocean Blvd - 3.7% increase*
Maintenance Fees $3.78
Reserve Fund $1.07
Property Tax $0.22
TOTAL $5.07

*Bali Hai AFLO - one cent increase  (had to divide total by points)*
Maintenance Fees $2.62
Reserve Fund $.84
Property Tax $0.28
Local Tax $.11
TOTAL $3.86


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## Melder

Melder said:


> Grand Desert Tower 2 is going up to $4.73 per thousand points, up from $4.60 in '18.



Updated with detail...

*Grand Desert Tower 2 - 2.8% increase*
Maintenance Fees $3.70 
Reserve Fund $.90
Property Tax $0.13
TOTAL $4.73


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## bendadin

WBC $6.16
CWA $5.99
Bay Club $616.95 for 140k = $4.41
Panama City Beach $4.35
Bali Hai $3.66
Grand Desert $4.73

So essentially $19.85/month higher.


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## geerlijd

*Canterbury UDI - 1.1% increase*
Maintenance Fees: $2.72
Reserve Fund: $0.50
Property Tax: $0.37
TOTAL $3.59

*Bali Hai UDI - 3.4% increase*
Maintenance Fees $2.62
Reserve Fund $0.61
Property Tax $0.27
Local Tax $.16
TOTAL $3.66


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## VegasBella

Just paid my Wyndham Avenue Plaza (New Orleans) legacy deeded week MF. They were $779.45


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## Sandy VDH

*Bonnet Creek - 4.9% increase*
Maintenance Fees $4.07
Reserve Fund $1.04
Property Tax $1.05
TOTAL $6.16


Any idea why property taxes in BC are so high compared to other places?


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## CCdad

Sandy VDH said:


> Any idea why property taxes in BC are so high compared to other places?



Someone suggested a long time ago that Florida tax assessors may only consider recent developer sales of a timeshare as more indicative of FMV than recent resales.  And if many TS's in FL are owned by non-residents, there's less likely to be folks willing to travel to the respective local taxing jurisdictions to challenge their assessments (which are collected at the resort level anyway).  So I just chalk it up as another tourism tax to offset their infrastructure costs.


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## bbodb1

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...e56aNQmOdqbtaQq-PwLyNXm2EK-p-63qLh40s/pubhtml

Is there not already something like this in existence?


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## Richelle

bbodb1 said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...e56aNQmOdqbtaQq-PwLyNXm2EK-p-63qLh40s/pubhtml
> 
> Is there not already something like this in existence?



We had one for 2017. Feel free to import that data into this spreadsheet. 


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## cbyrne1174

The list from 2017 helped me navigate which resorts to buy resale so much. I got a small CWA contract solely just to be able to book Bonnet Creek Thanksgiving and Easter during the value season, as well as week 22 in Myrtle Beach during the High season in summer since I had a feeling Bonnet Creek/Myrtle Beach would almost always be more expensive than CWA.


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## philemer

Sandy VDH said:


> *Bonnet Creek - 4.9% increase*
> Maintenance Fees $4.07
> Reserve Fund $1.04
> Property Tax $1.05
> TOTAL $6.16
> 
> 
> Any idea why property taxes in BC are so high compared to other places?



Supply and demand?


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## Richelle

philemer said:


> Supply and demand?



What does MF have to do with supply and demand?


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## paxsarah

Richelle said:


> What does MF have to do with supply and demand?



I think it was in response to a question of why property taxes are so high on BC.


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## jd5504

Jan M. said:


> Grand Desert, Tower 3, when from $4.66 to $4.82 so up .16
> Waikiki Beach Walk went from $4.71 to $4.84 so up .13
> Panama City Beach, Presidential Reserve, went from $4.32 to $4.50 so up .18



Do the


Jan M. said:


> Grand Desert, Tower 3, when from $4.66 to $4.82 so up .16
> Waikiki Beach Walk went from $4.71 to $4.84 so up .13
> Panama City Beach, Presidential Reserve, went from $4.32 to $4.50 so up .18



Do the prices on this page include Reserve fee?
My statement does not include taxes as a line item.


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## Richelle

jd5504 said:


> Do the
> 
> 
> Do the prices on this page include Reserve fee?
> My statement does not include taxes as a line item.



Do you mean the program fee?  No. It varies based on ownership, so for simplicity, they leave out the program fee.  


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## drepublic

Clearwater 2019 Maintenance per 1000 points.

Maintenance Fees: 3.65
Reserve Fund: $0.52
Property Tax: $1.15
-------------------------
Total: $5.32

Believe mine went up 3%.  Became UDI Owner around June 2018.


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## Richelle

drepublic said:


> Clearwater 2019 Maintenance per 1000 points.
> 
> 
> Maintenance Fees: 3.65
> Reserve Fund: $0.52
> Property Tax: $1.15
> Total without Partner's Plus: $5.32
> 
> Members with Partner's Plus: $0.60
> Total with Partner's Plus Included: $5.92
> 
> Believe mine went up 3%.  Became UDI Owner around June 2018.



We leave out the program fees.  Just want to know the assesment without the program fee.


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## philemer

*Bali Hai Villas*, U-OD, per 1000 pts.

Maintenance Fees: $2.62
Reserve Fund: .61
Local & Property taxes: .43
Total: $3.66

*Grand Desert,* UDI, per 1000 pts.

Maintenance Fees: $3.70
Reserve Fund: .90
Property taxes: .13
Total: $4.73

Plus $135 for program fee.​


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## Richelle

philemer said:


> *Bali Hai Villas*, U-OD, per 1000 pts.
> 
> Maintenance Fees: $2.62
> Reserve Fund: .61
> Local & Property taxes: .43
> Total: $3.66
> 
> *Grand Desert,* UDI, per 1000 pts.
> 
> Maintenance Fees: $3.70
> Reserve Fund: .90
> Property taxes: .13
> Total: $4.73
> 
> Plus $135 for program fee.​



Program fee varies by person.  Some pay more.  Retail owners have a minimum program fee of $155 per 1,000 I believe.  If resale owners have more then 233,000 points, they are charged at a rate of 58 cents per 1,000.  So a resale contract of 300,000 points would have a program fee of $174.  That same contract that was purchased retail and has Plus partners would have a maintenance fee of $180.

If it sounds confusing, now you know why we leave it out the program fee when quoting MF rates.  We just need to know the HOA dues, reserve fund, and property taxes.


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## kaljor

*Wyndham Nashville, TN
UDI*

Maintenance Fees $5.08
Reserve Fund $1.69
Property Tax $ .36
TOTAL $7.13

3.8% Increase


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## GRapuser

*Glacier Canyon Standard UDI
*
Maintenance Fees $4.86
Reserve Fund $1.07
Property Tax $0.66
TOTAL $6.59

2.8% Increase


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## philemer

Richelle said:


> Program fee varies by person.  Some pay more.  Retail owners have a minimum program fee of $155 per 1,000 I believe.  If resale owners have more then 233,000 points, they are charged at a rate of 58 cents per 1,000.  So a resale contract of 300,000 points would have a program fee of $174.  That same contract that was purchased retail and has Plus partners would have a maintenance fee of $180.
> 
> If it sounds confusing, now you know why we leave it out the program fee when quoting MF rates.  We just need to know the HOA dues, reserve fund, and property taxes.



Seriously? Can't you just ignore that line in my post? I'm sure no one really cares.


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## Richelle

philemer said:


> Seriously? Can't you just ignore that line in my post? I'm sure no one really cares.



Actually, we do care when misinformation is being spread. If no one cared, this place wouldn’t exist. I’m sorry you feel offended because I corrected you. I’m not sorry I corrected misinformation. 


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## philemer

Richelle said:


> Actually, we do care when misinformation is being spread. If no one cared, this place wouldn’t exist. I’m sorry you feel offended because I corrected you. I’m not sorry I corrected misinformation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The program fee is $135 so there is no incorrect information in my post. I see no rule that dictates what people post. Just ignore it.


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## Richelle

philemer said:


> The program fee is $135 so there is no incorrect information in my post. I see no rule that dictates what people post. Just ignore it.



YOUR program fee maybe $135, but it’s not for every one.  I included a photo of the 2019 fees.  As you can see, it depends on your ownership and how many points you have.  That is why we don’t include them in the maintenance fee posts  It seems you don’t like being corrected, so maybe you should ignore it.






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## Braindead

Richelle said:


> Retail owners have a minimum program fee of $155 per 1,000 I believe.
> If it sounds confusing, now you know why we leave it out the program fee when quoting MF rates.


I sure hope that’s misinformation $155 per 1,000. We’re going to have program fees as high as the purchase price on Wyndham direct point contracts


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## Jan M.

Richelle said:


> YOUR program fee maybe $135, but it’s not for every one.  I included a photo of the 2019 fees.  As you can see, it depends on your ownership and how many points you have.  That is why we don’t include them in the maintenance fee posts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



This should be prominently displayed on each year's maintenance fee sticky. Along with the explanation that it takes 233k points to get over the minimum program free without Plus Partners and 259k points with Plus Partners. I always thought it was some magic number of points Wyndham said you had to own. I didn't realize it was simple math. Divide the $135 by .58 to get 233k and $155 by .60 to get 259k. 

In the past some people added in their program fees and that made it very hard to compare the maintenance fees at different resorts. The other thing that I found confusing was when people didn't indicate they had a fixed week or in which building or association they owned. These numbers are very useful to a lot of people so it would be nice to have clarity.


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## ricknhsv

Majestic Sun - Destin, FL

HOA Rate per 1,000 Points:
Maintenance Fees: $5.34
Reserve Fund: $1.07
Property Tax: $0.20
Total: $6.61

EDIT: Just looked at my current bill and it's going up $4.44 per month next year.


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## Jan M.

jd5504 said:


> Do the
> 
> 
> Do the prices on this page include Reserve fee?
> My statement does not include taxes as a line item.



Sorry it took me so long to get the break down posted. I should have posted this the first time.

*Grand Desert, Tower 3 *
Maintenance Fees:  $3.74
Reserve Fund:  $0.93
Property Tax:  $0.15
Total:  $4.82
went from $4.66 to $4.82 so up $0.16

*Waikiki Beach Walk*
Maintenance Fees:  $3.44
Reserve Fund:  $0.80
Property Tax:  $0.38
Local Tax:  $0.22
Total:  $4.84
went from $4.71 to $4.84 so up $0.13

*Panama City Beach, Presidential Reserve*
Maintenance Fees:  $3.75
Reserve Fund:  $0.57
Property Tax:  $0.18
Total:  $4.50
went from $4.32 to $4.50 so up $0.18


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## folgema

*Williamsburg, Kingsgate*
Maintenance Fees $2.71
Reserve Fund $1.18
Property Tax $0.16
Total : $4.05
(just bought resale 
in 2018, so I don't have breakout from last year, but about $0.04 increase)


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## shorts

*Orlando International Resort Club *
(Converted fixed week - fees are for 2 BR units)

Maintenance fee:  674.47
Reserve fund:       223.89
Property tax:         99.99
Total:                 $998.35

(Bonnet Creek already posted)


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## bzw769

2019 Annual Assessment fees are now online.  After logging into your account on www.myclubwynham.com navigate the following menu path:

   Select:  My Ownership  =>  Financial Info  =>  scroll down the page the Assessment section to find the pdf versions for the last two years


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## Wainwright

*Royal Sea Cliff*
Maintenance Fees: $4.48
Reserve Fund: $1.11
Property Tax: $0.30
Local Tax: $0.26
Total: $6.15
went from $6.09 to $6.15 so up $0.06

Excluding program fees.


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## drepublic

EDIT:  This previously uploaded chart was incorrect for National Harbor.  Corrected below in another post.

I put this together while researching resale point properties and checking this thread for maintenance  and this really puts things into perspective, as to "how bad do you really want ARP?"  I wanted to know how many points I could get per $1000 spent in annual maintenance.  Yes I understand some pay 0.58 for program fee and others pay 0.6.  Just went with 0.6 as that's what I'm paying.  If you see any holes in my logic or thinking or any errors please let me know but this is an interesting chart.


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## CCdad

drepublic said:


> I put this together while researching resale point properties and checking this thread for maintenance  and this really puts things into perspective, as to "how bad do you really want ARP?"  I wanted to know how many points I could get per $1000 spent in annual maintenance.  Yes I understand some pay 0.58 for program fee and others pay 0.6.  Just went with 0.6 as that's what I'm paying.  If you see any holes in my logic or thinking or any errors please let me know but this is an interesting chart.
> 
> View attachment 10575



National Harbor is $4.24 per 1K per Richelle.

Ocean Blvd has the 4 different towers; the rate you've listed looks a bit low. I thought it was in the $6 range, but I see that Outskiing quoted that rate. That's a good MF rate for a MB property.


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## drepublic

Oops...sorry about that. Jumped the gun on Maintenance fees and not total. Corrected National Harbor.   OutSkiing reported 5.07 for Ocean Blvd.


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## Richelle

drepublic said:


> Oops...sorry about that. Jumped the gun on Maintenance fees and not total. Corrected National Harbor.   OutSkiing reported 5.07 for Ocean Blvd.
> 
> View attachment 10577



Bali Hai has different maintenance fee rates. Converted fixed weeks are different then UDI. The rate you quoted was for UDI. I would recommend you put a disclosure in there that the rates in the chart are for UDI points. 


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## drepublic

Richelle said:


> Bali Hai has different maintenance fee rates. Converted fixed weeks are different then UDI. The rate you quoted was for UDI. I would recommend you put a disclosure in there that the rates in the chart are for UDI points.



Sure no problem.  I am unable to edit that last post for some reason, so here is an updated chart with disclosure.


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## louisianab

*Wyndham Patriots Place*
(Fixed Week Doubleshare F/W)

Maintenance Fees: $4.32
Reserve Fund: $1.98
Property Tax: $0.27
Total: $6.57 excluding program fees

*Wyndham Branson - UDI*
Maintenance Fees: $4.68
Reserve Fund: $1.58
Property Tax: $0.13
Total: $6.39 excluding program fees

my others have already been shared.


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## Xcalibur

*Bali Hai FW-O - 5.7% increase*
Maintenance Fees $2.93
Reserve Fund $0.89
Property Tax $0.30
Local Tax $.11
TOTAL $4.23


Sandy VDH said:


> Bonnet creek when from 5.87 to 6.16 so up 0.29 per 1,000 points
> 
> That is nearly double the increase from some of the other locations.


- wasn't there a time when BC was considered one of the lower ones?  I vaguely remember that...


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## jjking42

Fixed converted week Wyndham flagstaff 7.2 % increase (time to vote out the board)
2018  4.98 
2019  5.34
154K points 

2018
MF    593.44
Res   147.00
Tax      26.88
total  767.32
program fee 131.00

2019
MF   643.41
Res  155.00
Tax    24.46
total 822.87
program fee 135.00


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## rubbub

*Bali Hai Presidential Reserve*
MF: $2.89 (+$0.08)
RF: $0.90 (+$0.08)
PT: $0.27 (+$0.02)
LT: $0.19 (+$0.03)

Total: $4.25 (+$0.21)


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## dgalati

CCdad said:


> Someone suggested a long time ago that Florida tax assessors may only consider recent developer sales of a timeshare as more indicative of FMV than recent resales.  And if many TS's in FL are owned by non-residents, there's less likely to be folks willing to travel to the respective local taxing jurisdictions to challenge their assessments (which are collected at the resort level anyway).  So I just chalk it up as another tourism tax to offset their infrastructure costs.


There is no personal *income tax* in *Florida which could be the reason for higher real estate taxes.*


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## Hecdiaz1

Wyndham Sapphire Valley - Converted F/W - 154,000 points ($4.364)

Maintenance Fees: 
$395.37
Reserve Fund: 
$263.13
Property Tax: 
$13.54
Total HOA Fee: 
$672.04


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## Mr. Phil

OutSkiing said:


> I have not received mine yet.
> 
> But oddly enough, we were at an owners update on Sunday and they ran off the usual sheet showing all our ownings and the fees for each.  The sales lady thought they were 2018 fees but in fact they are all higher than my 2018 fees so I think they are the 2019 fees!  Yes .. it says rate year 2019!  I happened to take a picture on my cell phone:
> 
> CWA fee :  $5.99 per thousand (up from $5.76 in 2018)
> 
> The program fee for all resorts is now $.60 per thousand (up from $.58 in 2018)
> 
> The HOA breakdown by Maintenance fee / Reserve Fee / Taxes are not on this sheet .. just total HOA and Program fees.
> 
> Bob


Access for 2021 will be $6.19/1000.


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## Richelle

Mr. Phil said:


> Access for 2021 will be $6.19/1000.



First, why are you posting 2021 dues in 2019 dues thread?  Second, how would you know this already?  The budgets for the resorts are not out yet for 2021.  The maintenance fees for access is the average of all the points in the system.  Without knowing what the budgets of the system are, they cannot know how much they are going to charge for 2021.

Also, the dues are currently $6.28 per 1,000.  Are you saying the maintenance fees are going down for the first time in the history of CWA?  That would require most of those 70+ resorts to have their fees go down.


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## Mr. Phil

cbyrne1174 said:


> I just received my year end update for one of my contracts. Royal Garden is now 5.07 per thousand. Has anyone seen what Access fees are next year? I like using that number for comparison so I can see how my fees compare to the average ^_^



Access Fess for 2021 are $6.20/1000.


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## Jan M.

Mr. Phil said:


> Access Fess for 2021 are $6.20/1000.



The correct 2021 maintenance fees for Club Wyndham Access points are $6.61 per thousand points.

There is a fantastic spreadsheet that HDiaz1 created on the third page of the 2020 maintenance fee sticky. Many of us have been updating it with the 2021 maintenance fees. I also started a thread asking people to update the spreadsheet.


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