# How are RCI TPU points assigned again?



## baby che (Mar 8, 2011)

Forgive me if this topic has been covered elsewhere but I have yet another question about RCI TPU values.

I own a 1 BD at Bougainvillea Beach Resort in Barbados, week 25. TPU assigned to my deposit is 24 or 25 points - actually 23 points for June, 2011 due to the ding for not depositing a full year out. Looking at current availability for BBR for a similar week (the week after or a few weeks out, not 4th of July, not that they care about that in Barbados!) RCI is charging 36 or 38 TPUs for a 1BR. How is that?? I could see a difference of a few points but a 13 point spread between what they give me and what they charge someone else?

Clearly I would not actually want to make that exchange, I was just looking at availability in general and saw the discrepancy.

In a similar vein, my 2BD week 26 unit at Orange Lake West got me 45 points a few months ago and 37 points more recently. Why the drop? And why so much for Orlando, even over a holiday week?

Overall I like the new TPU system. I can usually get 2 weeks or more for each week I own, so it is working to my advantage.


----------



## bnoble (Mar 8, 2011)

> How are RCI TPU points assigned again?


Those who know won't tell. Those who tell don't know.

But, it really doesn't matter.  The real question is: "If I'll be given X for a deposit, and it will cost me Y to get what I want, should I deposit with RCI?  Or, would I be better off if I deposit with an independent, use my time, or rent?"


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 8, 2011)

The answer is that RCI refuses to say what goes into their witches brew to conjure up the points lite numbers, and that raises serious questions about the integrity of the system and certainly makes it non-transparent.  That is especially true when we can see lots of weeks that are clearly overpointed or underpointed, or even worse in the situation you mention where they award substantially less points to the depositor than they charge to the exchanger who trades in to the same week at the very same point in time.  It stands to reason that values change over time, but having a double standard on the value at the same point in time is nothing less than a scam.  When a depositor cannot trade back into his own week, then RCI is skimming and that is just wrong.


----------



## baby che (Mar 8, 2011)

This may be a dumb question but how does one trade with an independent company? My understanding is the BBR only trades through RCI...


----------



## sandkastle4966 (Mar 8, 2011)

baby che - 


First half of june is not as popular as last week of June thru July and the first 2 weeks of august.  you will see a general theme that 'just about everything" is "more expensive" during the prime summer holidays.  Hence the big shift in what you saw.  There is then a shift back down the last 2 weeks of august.  Its not about what is going on in Barbados - but about who wants to go there and when.  4th of july week means one less vacation day to take in the summer

Sounds like you are trying to deposit the "last slow" week before the 'big demand" week.   I don't think is a scam, etc as Carolinian thinks. simple supply and demand  (why do you want to deposit a week and then get a week or two later..........usually its a case of a floating week resort, and this is what I COULD get,  but I really want a later more popular time)  

I have found with all of my prime time resorts,  that I actually am "rewarded" for depositing, and get a few more points, than it takes someone to get my EXACT week.

I agree with Brian - don't focus so much on the "why" - but "do I want to participate".  


INMHO - the big issue is that "supreme red" floating ownerhip at resorts, and the true supply demand "supreme red"  do not match up.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 9, 2011)

baby che said:


> This may be a dumb question but how does one trade with an independent company? My understanding is the BBR only trades through RCI...



The big exchange companies, RCI and II, operate through resorts affiliating with them.  Most of the independent exchange companies operate through individual members affiliating with them, so the resort does not have to affiliate for them to accept your week as a deposit.

SFX is very particular with the resorts and weeks they will accept but I think your week and your resort should pass muster with them.  Other independents are more open to accepting most weeks.

Some of the main independents are:

www.htse.net
www.sfx-resorts.com
www.daelive.com
www.platinuminterchange.com
www.tradingplaces.com

Most of them have free membership and they all have lower exchange fees.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 9, 2011)

Did you notice that this resort is in the Caribbean?  Many, but not all, like the early summer over the later summer due to be big factor in that area - hurricane season.  Having had a visit from a hurricane myself on a timeshare exchange to the Caribean some years ago, I would ALWAYS try for a June week over an August week.  But neither are really high season anyway.  In that area, high season is in the winter.

And the argument that one should not concern themselves about how RCI's numbers are set, just accept them, reminds me of the scene from the Wizard of Oz - "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, the Great and Powerful Oz (RCI) has spoken!''



sandkastle4966 said:


> baby che -
> 
> 
> First half of june is not as popular as last week of June thru July and the first 2 weeks of august.  you will see a general theme that 'just about everything" is "more expensive" during the prime summer holidays.  Hence the big shift in what you saw.  There is then a shift back down the last 2 weeks of august.  Its not about what is going on in Barbados - but about who wants to go there and when.  4th of july week means one less vacation day to take in the summer
> ...


----------



## cindi (Mar 9, 2011)

I had the same question.

A week I had deposited for 2011 received 49 points.  Using the points deposit calculator, for 2012 is says the max points is only 37.  

This is very difficult area and week to exchange into and yet they offer less points?


----------



## tombo (Mar 9, 2011)

cindi said:


> I had the same question.
> 
> A week I had deposited for 2011 received 49 points.  Using the points deposit calculator, for 2012 is says the max points is only 37.
> 
> This is very difficult area and week to exchange into and yet they offer less points?



That is why the new system is so great. You knew before you deposited that you would get 49 TPU's. If that wasn't enough for you, don't give your week to RCI. Since it was you can now look for deals. If you can trade back into your resort for 37 you will have 12 TPU's left over. It recently got a 3 bed 3 bath Cypress point June Week for 12 TPU's. You can get a 2012 week in your home your resort, plus a free week in a 3 bed 3 bath Orlando Silver Crown for a total outlay of one year's MF's and a $179 exchange fee. What a deal.

Now next year if your deposit value drops to 37 you will know before you deposit your week. It doesn't really matter why it dropped, that is simply what RCI says it is worth. You have the choice of agreeing with RCI's value and depositing your week for 37 TPU's or keeping it. They tell you what they will give you and it is either a good deal for you or not. The same as selling a car, renting your week to others, the same as anything you own. Someone offers you something of value for something you own, it you think it is a fair offer you accept, if not you decline.

If you offer your week for rent for $1500 and someone offers you $1000, that is waht they are offering you. It really doesn't matter whether they are offering that because they have found other rentals for similar prices, whether that is all they can afford, or whether they are trying to get it from you for below market value. The $1000 is what they are offering you. Take it or say no. The same with RCI, they will tell you what they will give you for your week. Take it or say no. Why they offered what they did really doesn't matter. Like the old adage states  (paraphrased) "God grant me the courage to change the things I can, the serenity to accept the things I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference".


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 9, 2011)

When they are pandering to certain developers who are still in sales to overpoint their weeks, that certainly does matter.  It means their numbers system has no integrity.  If they are deliberately underpointing others simply because they think they can get away with it, that also impacts the integrity of the system.  

You also overlook one thing.  Just because they only want to give her 37 points lite for her deposit, that does not mean that RCI would give it to her as a trade for that number.  Too many weeks are valued differently at the same point in time for deposit on one hand and exchange on the other.  If this were the case at different points in time, one could easily say that supply and demand factors shifted, as they often do, but supply and demand factors are exactly the same when it is at the same point in time.

You have an inordinate amount of trust in an organization that started unethically renting our exchange deposits to the general public, and initially denied they were doing it.  Such an organization cannot be trusted to honestly set trading values of weeks, especially when once those numbers are made public they can either benefit or hurt big developers who have a lot of pull with them.  Having RCI set trading power numbers is about like letting Enron set them. 




tombo said:


> That is why the new system is so great. You knew before you deposited that you would get 49 TPU's. If that wasn't enough for you, don't give your week to RCI. Since it was you can now look for deals. If you can trade back into your resort for 37 you will have 12 TPU's left over. It recently got a 3 bed 3 bath Cypress point June Week for 12 TPU's. You can get a 2012 week in your home your resort, plus a free week in a 3 bed 3 bath Orlando Silver Crown for a total outlay of one year's MF's and a $179 exchange fee. What a deal.
> 
> Now next year if your deposit value drops to 37 you will know before you deposit your week. It doesn't really matter why it dropped, that is simply what RCI says it is worth. You have the choice of agreeing with RCI's value and depositing your week for 37 TPU's or keeping it. They tell you what they will give you and it is either a good deal for you or not. The same as selling a car, renting your week to others, the same as anything you own. Someone offers you something of value for something you own, it you think it is a fair offer you accept, if not you decline.
> 
> If you offer your week for rent for $1500 and someone offers you $1000, that is waht they are offering you. It really doesn't matter whether they are offering that because they have found other rentals for similar prices, whether that is all they can afford, or whether they are trying to get it from you for below market value. The $1000 is what they are offering you. Take it or say no. The same with RCI, they will tell you what they will give you for your week. Take it or say no. Why they offered what they did really doesn't matter. Like the old adage states  (paraphrased) "God grant me the courage to change the things I can, the serenity to accept the things I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference".


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 9, 2011)

cindi said:


> I had the same question.
> 
> A week I had deposited for 2011 received 49 points.  Using the points deposit calculator, for 2012 is says the max points is only 37.
> 
> This is very difficult area and week to exchange into and yet they offer less points?



If you are in no hurry to deposit, I would wait until there is demand for the week.  The values still vary.  Depositing too early is still a mistake.  RCI didn't change in that way.


----------



## tombo (Mar 9, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Having RCI set trading power numbers is about like letting Enron set them.





Not true at all. RCI only gets my weeks if it is a good deal IMO.RCI can't make me do anything. RCI doesn't affect the overall economy.  RCI does not increase the price of goods, services, or oil consumers require to survive. They are not in my stock portfolio. Other than exchanging they don't affect anyone's lives at all. Enron impacted most Americans with their crooked ponzi scheme. RCI's TPU assignments is only importantif you deposit a week with them, and you do that of your own free will with full knowledge of how many TPU's you will receive.

If RCI raises or lowers the TPU's on my week(s) I can decide whether I like the value or not. RCI makes an offer. I accept or decline their offer with my week. I have the total control over what I own. RCI is at my mercy at to whether I deposit my week with them, use it myself,or rent it to others. They get ONLY what I want them to.


----------



## Texasbelle (Mar 9, 2011)

*RCI influences supply and demand*

TPU is based on "supply and demand"--this is understandable, BUT I think the TPU assigned will influence supply and demand.  Why would I deposit my unit for 2012 now at 23 when 2011 was 28 and is still 25?  And since I have 16 TPU for a different timeshare, I am not trading into a 12 because I would have worthless credits left, so the TPU influences my choices.  And might you be wary of a low TPU?


----------



## sandkastle4966 (Mar 9, 2011)

Yup - sure do know that this resort is in the carribean.  since I have visited a large number of islands,  my observation  is that most of the tourism is US based (at least a large percentage).  what drive tourism?  when folks can get off.  Retirees go when its crappy in the US - the winter,  the rest,  when the kids are off.  They don't give a rats *(&% about hurricane season - they go between end of june and mid august - when school is out - and hope for the best weather.

Everything I have seen so far, and I have done a lot of analysing which weeks to get and deposit from my floating weeks, makes sense from a supply/demand aspect.  

Should you blindly deposit -no - do your homework.  but dont except to get A+ points when you give a B+ or A- time.  the beauty of the new system, is you know before you deposit .  Make your own decision based on information available - there is certainly alot of FACTS out there, as well as opinions.

I am one of the users that LIKES the changes and the relative transparency compared to what it was.   It is very clear that Carolinian dislikes anything and everything that RCI does.   everyone needs to decide their own opinion, and deposit, trade or not as works best for them.   

I think Tombo and Cindy have valid points - weigh out do you need to deposit now?  are you willing to risk changes to TPU - both positive and negative?


----------



## tombo (Mar 9, 2011)

Texasbelle said:


> TPU is based on "supply and demand"--this is understandable, BUT I think the TPU assigned will influence supply and demand.  Why would I deposit my unit for 2012 now at 23 when 2011 was 28 and is still 25?  And since I have 16 TPU for a different timeshare, I am not trading into a 12 because I would have worthless credits left, so the TPU influences my choices.  And might you be wary of a low TPU?



So deposit this years for 25 and see if next year's TPU offering increases over time. If it doesn't don't deposit it. If you decide 23 plus the leftover points from this year will get you something you are interested in, deposit it. 

RCI can't make you take 23 points or 28 points. If you don't think the offer is fair, keep your week. If they don't get enough of your type of weeks deposited in 2012 they might increase the offer in 2013. Whatever they offer in 2013 you can decide what you want to do with your week then. You are not at RCI's mercy. You simply give them your week to get enough points to get trades you want or you keep your week because your week is worth more to you than what the points they are offering will get you.

As for worthless leftover TPU's, before the recent change you had nothing leftover after an exchange, ever. It was one week for one week with no change and no chance to get 2 or 3 weeks from one deposit. Now you might have enough TPU's left for another exchange, or even 2 or 3 exchanges from one week deposited. 4 "worthless" TPU's combined with 23 makes 27.  23 points for your 2012 deposit would not get you a DVC week, however 27 will. Those worthless points all add up, and in that example they are the difference between trading for DVC or not. Plus you can take 2 weeks that would never be able to exchange for something like the Manahattan Club, combine them for $99 and get an exchange that was out of reach using your weeks under the old program. In addition if you have points about to expire you can combine a week and all points are good for 2 more years. 

I have weeks that get a lot of TPU's and I have weeks that receive less than 20. I will typically only deposit a week that gets me 15 TPU's if I can't use it, can't rent it to others, and don't want to let it go to waste. My top TPU weeks I deposit, rent, or use myself depending on what I am looking to trade for and how many TPU's that week requires. I control my destiny with RCI trades because I know what they will give me for my deposit before I deposit it, and I know what a week I am looking for will cost me. I can give RCI my week(s) if it is of benefit to me, or keep them if it is not and use last call and extra vacations. 

I owe RCI nothing but my annual dues,and if I ever decide RCI no longer works for me I will no longer owe them even that.


----------



## krj9999 (Mar 9, 2011)

I expect numbers will fluctuate and not stay static.  I also expect average values to be slightly lower on average going forward, especially for higher TPU units.

I suspect over time the values will improve towards true value.  How many people want to commit 60 TPU for Manhattan Club in January/February?  Certainly not me.

My week 52 Vegas: 2010 deposit shows as 42 TPU (deposited before the changeover); 2011 deposit shows as 27 TPU; using calculator it says 2012 is worth 26.

When the TPUs were first provided; it took 28 TPU to trade back into the exact date for 2011.  Now, just 23.  For 2012, just 22 to trade in.



rickandcindy23 said:


> If you are in no hurry to deposit, I would wait until there is demand for the week.  The values still vary.  Depositing too early is still a mistake.  RCI didn't change in that way.


----------



## funtime (Mar 9, 2011)

*TPU value decreases closer to the check in time for deposits*

When you deposit 2 years to 9 months from check in you get 100 % of the value.  
At 6-9 months it is 95% value.  
At 3-6 months it is 90% value. 
At 1-3 months it is 80% value 
At 15-30 days 60% and 
At 14 days or less from check in is 45% value.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 10, 2011)

Nice.  Quote something out of context and then respond to it!

The part of the paragraph you deleted that led to my comparision with Enron pointed out that RCI was a company that was hard to trust in setting numbers due to their history of siphoning off exchange deposits to rent to the general public and then lying about the fact that they were doing it.  How does that history give you any confidence in RCI being honest in setting points like numbers by a totally non-transparent secret process?  Oh, and that also doesn't even mention RCI's former parent, Cendent's own accounting scandals for which execs were convicted.  Nice history for an entity you trust explicitly to set honest numbers!




tombo said:


> Not true at all. RCI only gets my weeks if it is a good deal IMO.RCI can't make me do anything. RCI doesn't affect the overall economy.  RCI does not increase the price of goods, services, or oil consumers require to survive. They are not in my stock portfolio. Other than exchanging they don't affect anyone's lives at all. Enron impacted most Americans with their crooked ponzi scheme. RCI's TPU assignments is only importantif you deposit a week with them, and you do that of your own free will with full knowledge of how many TPU's you will receive.
> 
> If RCI raises or lowers the TPU's on my week(s) I can decide whether I like the value or not. RCI makes an offer. I accept or decline their offer with my week. I have the total control over what I own. RCI is at my mercy at to whether I deposit my week with them, use it myself,or rent it to others. They get ONLY what I want them to.


----------



## tombo (Mar 10, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Nice.  Quote something out of context and then respond to it!
> 
> The part of the paragraph you deleted that led to my comparision with Enron pointed out that RCI was a company that was hard to trust in setting numbers due to their history of siphoning off exchange deposits to rent to the general public and then lying about the fact that they were doing it.  How does that history give you any confidence in RCI being honest in setting points like numbers by a totally non-transparent secret process?  Oh, and that also doesn't even mention RCI's former parent, Cendent's own accounting scandals for which execs were convicted.  Nice history for an entity you trust explicitly to set honest numbers!



I did not know you were a lawyer until someone else mentioned it. I now understand why you bring up irrelevant points and throw in ridiculous statements to prove your point. Malign RCI as a crooked company since your facts do not match the experiences of people actually exchanging under the new program WHO LIKE IT. Create a scenario where the execs at RCI are manipulating points to the detriment of all to remove focus from all the good things in the new program and make RCI seem nothing but bad. Find isolated examples and try to make them appear to be the norm. I now understand the point of view and strategy much better. 

To a lawyer a man found with the murder weapon in his hand, with 3 witnesses who saw him do it,and who admitted he did it is simply a bigger challenge to acquit. If the lawyer is told by his client that he did in fact murder the people, that is not important, all that is important is finding a way to get him off scott free, or with a reduced charge. Make every witness look bad to impugn their testimony. Attack them personally, their families,their character,anything to take the focus off of the simple facts that they saw him do it.  Try to blame the police for getting a false confession so you can get that out of focus. Blame the police rather than the man who killed someone. Attempt to create more doubt by saying that the defendant saw the gun lying there and picked it up for self defense because there is a murderer in the area.  For most lawyers winning is all that is important, not truth or the facts.  I assume that next you will be using the OJ argument against RCI:   If the points don't fit, RCI you must quit.

You like to bring up Enron because almost everyone hates Enron. Well for most of us lawyers are liked about as well as Enron. To top it off the other poster mentioned you are a politician. Another loved profession (sarcasm). If you dcide to sell used cars on the weekend then you will hit the trifecta for working in the 3 most hated careers.

Simple fact most people like RCI weeks changes. Most people don't care about the exact method RCI uses to determine TPU's assigned to resorts/weeks, only how many their week(s) receive for a deposit and what that number of TPU's will get them on exchanges. 

Since the new weeks program is working well, and from your long history as a GUEST on TUG it is obvious that you hate to see any good press about RCI.  You apparently feel that you must interject yourself into every discussion when RCI is praised to condemn RCI as the most evil company in the world, or join in if it is being maligned to revel in a thread where others feel similar to you.

So now in 2 different posts as you grasp at straws you interject what you feel is the most important historical corporation to relate to RCI weeks discussions, the ever relevant Enron. Really ENRON? Please note where ENRON ever made a timeshare exchange, set timeshare points values, had members that exchanged timeshares, or anything else that would possibly make throwing ENRON into the conversation something other than a red herring. What a great strategy. Enron is bad. People hate Enron. Tell all that will listen that RCI is just like Enron. All should now hate RCI since RCI and Enron are identical entities.  Give us a break! Enron has NOTHING to do with RCI! Could you not find a way to weave asbestos manufacturers and three mile Island execs into this malevolent RCI scheme to control the world's economy through TPU manipulations? 

In the future please present facts relevant to the discussion. Counselor, I object to many of your previous posts because Enron, and many of the ridiculous examples postulated by you are argumentative and irrelevant. I ask that they be stricken from the record so as not to falselly prejudice those engaged in a real discussions, using real facts, and who are actually trying to  figure out the pros and cons of the new program. If Enron or other ridiculous arguments are placed in the future I ask that TUG finds you in contempt. Many of us already have. 

Respectfully your number one cheerleader.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 10, 2011)

Well in all that blather you still did not manage to address my point. 

*Why trust a company to honesty set public valuation numbers for timeshares that has a known history of cheating members by renting their exchange deposits to the general public, lied about it, and further has a parent company (since divided) with a history of serious accounting violations that went to the courts?*

Lets skip the ad hominum arguments and talk about real issues here.  

Enron's accounting violations are much better known and therefore make a better example, but you overlook the fact that Cendent had its own problems with the courts over shady accounting practices.



tombo said:


> I did not know you were a lawyer until someone else mentioned it. I now understand why you bring up irrelevant points and throw in ridiculous statements to prove your point. Malign RCI as a crooked company since your facts do not match the experiences of people actually exchanging under the new program WHO LIKE IT. Create a scenario where the execs at RCI are manipulating points to the detriment of all to remove focus from all the good things in the new program and make RCI seem nothing but bad. Find isolated examples and try to make them appear to be the norm. I now understand the point of view and strategy much better.
> 
> To a lawyer a man found with the murder weapon in his hand, with 3 witnesses who saw him do it,and who admitted he did it is simply a bigger challenge to acquit. If the lawyer is told by his client that he did in fact murder the people, that is not important, all that is important is finding a way to get him off scott free, or with a reduced charge. Make every witness look bad to impugn their testimony. Attack them personally, their families,their character,anything to take the focus off of the simple facts that they saw him do it.  Try to blame the police for getting a false confession so you can get that out of focus. Blame the police rather than the man who killed someone. Attempt to create more doubt by saying that the defendant saw the gun lying there and picked it up for self defense because there is a murderer in the area.  For most lawyers winning is all that is important, not truth or the facts.  I assume that next you will be using the OJ argument against RCI:   If the points don't fit, RCI you must quit.
> 
> ...


----------



## sandkastle4966 (Mar 10, 2011)

tombo said:


> Since the new weeks program is working well, and from your long history as a GUEST on TUG it is obvious that you hate to see any good press about RCI.  You apparently feel that you must interject yourself into every discussion when RCI is praised to condemn RCI as the most evil company in the world, or join in if it is being maligned to revel in a thread where others feel similar to you.
> 
> 
> 
> welll said.....Tombo - can't agree with you more !


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 10, 2011)

My ski week is worth more points next year than this year.  As I always knew, RCI had Colorado all wrong, and they are constantly adjusting.  I noticed a few summer weeks are higher than before, too.  I watch these things closely, being a board member and on-site "exchange expert."  Hardly an expert, but I think I have most of it figured out.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 11, 2011)

I have no doubt that for some people, Points Lite is working well, and for some it has not been a big deal.  But for many that is not the case.  Some of you may have the illusion that you are the majority, but many have lost.  The off season owners who relied on the 45-day window have lost with the final demise of that RCI program, so it is definitely not working well for them.  Indeed a resort manager I spoke with described all the calls she was getting from people wanting to bail out of timesharing because of this change.  People who did internal trades within their home resorts have had the rules changed and now many cannot get the 1 for 1 internal trades they used to.  The new system is not working well for them.  It is also not working well for those owning in areas where trade value has been whacked.

A poll on another site asked if timesharers could still get the same one for one trades they had in the past under the new system or whether they had to combine weeks to get those trades.  The response split down the middle with about half saying they had to combine deposits to get the trades they used to get 1 for 1.  Some reported having to combine as many as three deposits to get what the same deposits used to get 1 for 1.  It is clearly not working well for the half that now has to combine weeks to get what they used to get one for one.

When RCI moved the goal posts, some won, some lost, and for some it was a wash.  It is easy to see which side you undoubtedly came out on.

As to ''hating'' RCI, I will repeat a statement I made made quite a few times over the years on these boards.  IMHO RCI created the best timeshare exchange system that has ever been created, and they deserve credit for that, but since Cendent took it over they have made so many negative changes that it is now only a pale ghost of what it used to be from a consumer standpoint, which is sad.  Personally, I would like nothing better than for RCI founder Crystal deHaan to take it back over and restore RCI's glory days when they were genuinely consumer-friendly.

Here is a post I made on another site setting out both the plusses and minuses of Points Lite:
http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/rci/112155-rci-weeks-points-lite-plusses-minuses.html





sandkastle4966 said:


> Since the new weeks program is working well, and from your long history as a GUEST on TUG it is obvious that you hate to see any good press about RCI.  You apparently feel that you must interject yourself into every discussion when RCI is praised to condemn RCI as the most evil company in the world, or join in if it is being maligned to revel in a thread where others feel similar to you.
> 
> 
> 
> welll said.....Tombo - can't agree with you more !


----------



## SteveChapin (Mar 11, 2011)

Texasbelle said:


> TPU is based on "supply and demand"--this is understandable, BUT I think the TPU assigned will influence supply and demand.  Why would I deposit my unit for 2012 now at 23 when 2011 was 28 and is still 25?  And since I have 16 TPU for a different timeshare, I am not trading into a 12 because I would have worthless credits left, so the TPU influences my choices.  And might you be wary of a low TPU?



They're not completely worthless.  For another fee (surprise!) RCI will combine deposits, including "change" from prior exchanges.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 11, 2011)

The upside of the $99 combine fee is your points never have to expire.  This is one of the best things about it.  You really don't have to do this with every point, and it's probably not a good idea to have one large bunch, simply because ongoing searches are easier against multiple deposits.


----------



## tombo (Mar 11, 2011)

SteveChapin said:


> They're not completely worthless.  For another fee (surprise!) RCI will combine deposits, including "change" from prior exchanges.



That is your OPTION under the new program which was NOT an option under the old program. You don't have to pay to combine unless it is good for YOU, not RCI. Would it be better if they wouldn't give you an option to combine the leftover points? If you couldn't combine, 3 TPU's would be worthless. Then everyone would be complaining that yes RCI gives you the change back, but often the change is worthless. Now for a fee every point can be used and it can be extended to where it never expires by combining points every year and a half or so.

In your example let the 3 leftover points remain in your account. Then 6 more from another trade. Then 6 more leftover points from another trade in the next 2 years. Then deposit your 23 point week 1 year and a half from now, pay $99 to add all of the leftover points from previous trades (15 in this example), deposit another week worth 20 points, and you can combine 2 deposits and 15 leftover points from 3 previous exchanges to have a trading power of 58, and extend the life of all TPU's for 2 more years (something you had to pay for under the old system). Now with combined weeks and leftover points you can get 2 DVC weeks or a Manhatten Club week with your 2 deposits anytime during the next 2 years even if some of the points are already almost 2 years old. Extend the life and combine leftover points and deposits to get things that were out of reach for $99. I like everyone else wish it was free, but it is not. If the combining of your points is worth $99 do it, it not don't. Simple as that. 

 Under the old system your 20 TPU week would not get you Manhattan Club or DVC, and neither would the 23 TPU week. In the old system you could deposit both a 23 TPU week and a 20 TPU week, and both DVC and Manhatttan Club would both be out of reach. Deposit 10 similar weeks and you could not exchange for either location. Under the old system you NEVER got change back from a trade, it was a week for a week. Now with high TPU weeks you often get enough change back to book another week or even 2 other weeks. Beats the old days when your deposit either was strong enough to exchange for another week or it was not, and if it did exchange it was one for one (never one deposit for 2 or 3 exchanges) even if you were depositing a stronger week than you were trading for.

I love that you get change back now and that you have the OPTION to  combine weeks. I recently combined a deposit with 2 unused previously deposited weeks that were about to expire for $99 and thanks to combining I have an ongoing search that has enough TPU's to get the Manahattan Club. I would not have been able to search for the MC with those deposits in the past. For $99 I have a chance at a resort I couldn't have gotten before and the $99 fee extended the life of 2 unused exchanges that were expiring this year. It was worth $99 to me in this case. If it is not worth $99 the next time I have some unused TPU's in my account, I won't pay the $99. 

At least now RCI gave me an option to combine deposits (for a fee) and in most exchanges they give me some TPU's change back from my deposit. I usually get change back because rarely is an exchange an exact even number of TPU's. It is a win-win for members. Use the leftover TPU's if you want/can, let them expire unused if you don't want to/can't. In the past there was never anything left in your account to even worry about.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 11, 2011)

After just taking a week at Aquamarine Villas during the cool season of February through an alternate exchange company, an exchange I could have gotten with 20 TPU's with RCI, I am a bigger RCI fan than ever.  You won't see me criticize RCI or trying other exchange companies.  

I deposited oceanfront Maui for the above exchange through Alderwood.  I am happy to get something, anything!


----------



## tombo (Mar 11, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> After just taking a week at Aquamarine Villas during the cool season of February through an alternate exchange company, an exchange I could have gotten with 20 TPU's with RCI, I am a bigger RCI fan than ever.  You won't see me criticize RCI or trying other exchange companies.
> 
> I deposited oceanfront Maui for the above exchange through Alderwood.  I am happy to get something, anything!



Just curious. How many TPU's would you have gotten if you had deposited your ocean front Maui week with RCI?


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 11, 2011)

Tombo, I should look at the numbers.  I believe it would have been at least 40.  I will look tonight.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 11, 2011)

The week I have reserved for 2012 is week 7, and it's worth 56 points.  September is worth 34 points, but it's a float, so I can get the week I want.


----------



## tombo (Mar 12, 2011)

rickandcindy23 said:


> The week I have reserved for 2012 is week 7, and it's worth 56 points.  September is worth 34 points, but it's a float, so I can get the week I want.



The reason I asked was to see how depositing your Maui week with RCI would have worked for you. You gave another exchange company your Maui week and got a single Aquamarine Villas Week for that Maui deposit, and nothing else. RCI would have given you 34 TPU points for the same deposit( minimum), and possibly 56 TPU's. In RCI you could have exchanged for the Aquamarine Villas week you got through another exchange company which would have cost you 20 RCI TPU's and you would have had 14 TPU's left over which could get you a second week through RCI. If you had received 56 TPU points you could have exchanged in RCI for the Aquamarine week for 20 TPU's and a 25 TPU DVC week, and still had 11 TPU's left over. You definetelly used the wrong exchange company.

With other exchange companies it is one week in for one week out. No 2 for 1 exchanges, no 3 for 1 exchanges, no change back, just one for one trades. Other exchange companies have limited inventort mainly in limited locatons. RCI exchanges with huge availability and gives you change back. RCI is far superior to the second best exchange company in many ways IMO.

If someone comes up with a better exchange company I would change, but until/if that happens you can't beat RCI and I am not depositing my weeks with anyone else.


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 12, 2011)

Where did you even find this Alderwood?  I have never seen them mentioned in any thread on any TS board until your recent post.  They are not one of the companies listed in Timesharing Today.  I would stick with the established independent exchange companies.

I joined SFX late last year to deposit one of my UK summer weeks, since they were degraded by RCI in the moving of the goal posts in Points Lite and have used DAE extensively for years, even before they had a US office.  In fact I got a call yesterday that one of my ongoing DAE searches had matched to a specific resort I had requested, a nice II property in southern England in the warm season.  Exchanges I have previously gotten through DAE include Smugglers Notch summer, coastal southern California summer, OBX summer, Myrtle Beach summer, Grand Cayman spring, Puerto Rico Thanksgiving, houseboat on St. Johns River Florida spring, UK canalboat summer, French Riveria seafront summer, Croatia seafront summer, Poland seafront summer, Ireland late spring, and northern England Fall.

Cindy, I also remember your posts about the good trades you had gotten through SFX.  Why did you not use an established independent exchange company like them?  The narrow one year trading window at Alderwood that you reported on your other thread should have been a huge red flag about them.   




rickandcindy23 said:


> After just taking a week at Aquamarine Villas during the cool season of February through an alternate exchange company, an exchange I could have gotten with 20 TPU's with RCI, I am a bigger RCI fan than ever.  You won't see me criticize RCI or trying other exchange companies.
> 
> I deposited oceanfront Maui for the above exchange through Alderwood.  I am happy to get something, anything!


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 12, 2011)

SteveChapin said:


> They're not completely worthless.  For another fee (surprise!) RCI will combine deposits, including "change" from prior exchanges.



So, instead of a trade you used to get one for one under the old system that allowed you to trade within a range or band, now you have to use exact numbers, which have often been changed, so you may now have to combine two or more weeks to make the same trade.  RCI makes their additional fee for that privelege.  That is a real step forward for the member!!!  A poll on another site showed about half of respondants having to use more than one week in the new system to get trades that they had gotten one exchange for one deposit in the old.  I think the most extreme example was a frequent poster reporting that the deposit he had been trading one for one for 20 years to SW Florida now took three of those deposits to get one of the weeks he used to get one for one.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 12, 2011)

> Where did you even find this Alderwood? I have never seen them mentioned in any thread on any TS board until your recent post. They are not one of the companies listed in Timesharing Today. I would stick with the established independent exchange companies.



Alderwood is our management company.  This is their own exchange company, and Alderwood supposedly gets inventory from all of the boutique exchange companies, so the gal told me that duplicating my exchanges with the other companies was a waste of everyone's time.  

I had to take the matter into my own hands and get an exchange myself.  I am not like other timeshare owners, who put in a request and then allow their week to expire. In the process, when I asked Alderwood about a San Francisco exchange I saw on TPMaui, she said, "that will probably go to one of TPMaui's customers."  (I am one of TPMaui's customers, so I could get it with my current deposit.) I asked early on for some weeks she couldn't get for me.  I admit they were difficult exchanges, but RCI and II came through with both already.  

The Alderwood exchange person was a bit perturbed and said it was demeaning that I contacted Platinum Interchange for the Aquamarine Villas.  I did what I had to do.  Letting a week expire was not going to happen.  

The week is supposed to expire in September, but the exchange I got was for February, the earliest possible time for us to go anywhere.  The date is past the expiration date of 9/2011. I knew if I waited longer to find something that would work, not only would everything be gone, but we would be past 9/2011, and she would just say, "That week is expired, so I cannot help you with it."  I had to act, and I was fully expecting her to say I am past the date.  She hasn't said anything yet.  

SFX works if you know someone.  Elena is great, but she hasn't emailed me back.  I got an exchange by talking with her in person, requesting a date, then depositing a week after I found out something was available.  She confirmed me to Powell Place in San Francisco for 7/1.  I asked her a question two weeks ago and haven't heard back.  I wonder if she is still there, or if she is on vacation.


----------



## tombo (Mar 12, 2011)

I am a member of DAE, RCI weeks, RCI points, and I was a member of II for years. MY best results time and time again are through RCI weeks for exchanges.  Sometimes II would get me a location and/or date that RCI couldn't, but not often. Except for trading for Marriotts I found that I rarely exchanged through II, so I quit II and I am down to only owning 2 II only resorts. RCI points is mainly only good to me for shorter than a week stays now that RCI changed the weeks program. RCI was the best for me before the change, now it is even better. If I could only be a member of one xchange company it would without a doubt be RCI weeks and the new Points the weeks program now uses. Second place is not even close.

Cindy you are a member of SFX, DAE, Alderwood, Platinum Interchange, RCI weeks, RCI points and II. Which program would you choose if you could only choose one?


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 12, 2011)

> Cindy you are a member of SFX, DAE, Alderwood, Platinum Interchange, RCI weeks, RCI points and II. Which program would you choose if you could only choose one?


I love RCI right now, and RCI Points get me into places I cannot get in RCI weeks, and not that I don't try to get something great in RCI weeks with ongoing searches, because weeks is so much cheaper.  I already have ongoing searches for Hawaii in September of next year, for example.  I know Shearwater banks at about 13 months, so well ahead of the window.  

II is my other choice for exchanges.  We just stayed in a 2 bed at Four Seasons Aviara and loved it.  SFX next, if you can get an exchange before you bank your week.  The other exchange companies have inventory online to view without paying, so if you want a week, deposit a week.  Inventory for Hawaii was better in previous years, and it's because owners are using their vacation time and not depositing.  That was what HTSE and TPMaui have both said.  I have deposits with both and feel confident I will get something.


----------



## tombo (Mar 12, 2011)

I checked into SFX a while back, and for most Eastern US TUGGERS it is not a real option. Look at the list of resorts they accept. Some here complain about the number of points RCI gives their resorts under weeks, well at least you can exchange your week in RCI. SFX won't accept most of the resorts that RCI will meaning that many of the weeks TUGGERS currently own or exchange for will be impossible using SFX.

On the entire Florida panhandle SFX accepts ONE RESORT TOTAL, and it is on the bay not the ocean. None in Panama City, none Gulf Shores, none on the ocean in Destin, only one on the bay. RCI has 37 resorts on the panhandle versus ONE with SFX. 

In the entire state of Tennessee they only accept 4 resorts for deposit, and only 2 in the entire  Gatlinburg area. RCI has 31 resorts in Tennessee, 24 of which are in the Gatlinburg area.

SFX has 15 resorts in HHI area. RCI has 37

SFX has 6 Myrtle Beach resort, RCI has 59.

SFX has a total of zero acceptable resorts in the entire state of Georgia. RCI has 20 resorts including availability on that hard to exchange for Tybee island.

In New Orleans they only accept 4 resorts. RCI has 17 resorts in the New Orleans area.

In all of the north Carolina Mountains SFX only accepts one resort. RCI has 19 resorts in the NC mountains.

SFX has a total of ONE resort on the OBX. RCI has 13 resorts.

Granted SFX is somewhat strong in California and Hawaii with numerous resorts on their list, however even in these areas they are not as strong as RCI. In the southeast where I live, own, and mainly exchange they are not even close to a viable alternative to RCI for exchanging. 

Before any here buy the SFX hype, see if the resort(s) you own or like to exchange into are even on SFX's list of resorts they will accept for deposit or trade. 15 TPU's for your week with RCI beats the heck out of SFX telling you they don't accept weeks at your resort for deposit period, or that the week you deposited won't get access to the resort you want to exchange for because it is not on their limited list of resorts. Check it out for yourself, facts is facts.

http://www.sfx-resorts.com/directory/index.asp


----------



## Carolinian (Mar 12, 2011)

Strange post for someone who was such a big Gold Crown advocate in another thread!  Don't you realize that SFX only deals in resorts that are Gold Crown or to Gold Crown standard?  To me that is a major limitation, which is why I also use DAE.  Getting into the hardest timeshare trade in the world, London, is easier with SFX's Sloan Garden Court resort than RCI's  resorts (which SFX also accepts).  Sloan Garden Court used to be affiliated with RCI but dumped them to work mainly with SFX, although I think they can also be deposited with DAE and UKRE.  (Oh, and BTW, although I argued strenuously in that other thread that location makes a whole lot more difference to timeshare demand than award status, my own resorts are all currently either Silver Crown or Gold Crown)

But RCI's current practices, particularly combining weeks is likely to really grow SFX's business.  Why?  The prime week owners who use RCI are going to be getting a lot more competition in getting like for like.  Since that is what SFX specializes in, that is where they are likely to turn as they get frustrated with RCI.  Combining weeks for an offseason week in RCI makes no economic sense with paying two m/f's and a combining fee.  It may make some sense for the middle level weeks, and that is where most of it is likely to occur.  Suddenly those people combining middle level weeks are going to be competing for the prime inventory formerly only availible to the rarified circle of owners of prime weeks.  That is going to put a lot more people chasing static inventory, and mean that prime week owners are suddenly not going to be getting the trades they used to.  They will be looking for options, especially those only owning one timeshare week instead of a portfolio, which is actually more common from my experience in the timeshare world than the multi-week owners.  RCI's new plan immediately kicks the off season owners in the teeth by effectively terminated the 45 day window.  Over a longer period as those members figure out what is happening to them, they are also slitting their own throat with the prime week owners.  Well, that will just leave us SFX members more to trade for.




tombo said:


> I checked into SFX a while back, and for most Eastern US TUGGERS it is not a real option. Look at the list of resorts they accept. Some here complain about the number of points RCI gives their resorts under weeks, well at least you can exchange your week in RCI. SFX won't accept most of the resorts that RCI will meaning that many of the weeks TUGGERS currently own or exchange for will be impossible using SFX.
> 
> On the entire Florida panhandle SFX accepts ONE RESORT TOTAL, and it is on the bay not the ocean. None in Panama City, none Gulf Shores, none on the ocean in Destin, only one on the bay. RCI has 31 resorts on the panhandle versus ONE with SFX.
> 
> ...


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 12, 2011)

Blue Ridge Village is Gold in II, and deservedly so (Premiere is the new designation, I believe?), and SFX will not accept it, because it is North Carolina mountains.  Apparently they have no demand.  Their site seems clear to me.  You need to check their resort directory to see what resorts they will take.  They really do not take anything Gold Crown, unless it's in certain areas.  

They take French Ridge in Breckenridge, which is not RCI gold or silver, but they won't take my resort a few miles down the road, which is Silver Crown. Val Chatelle is much better than French Ridge.   

I asked SFX if they wanted my oceanfront Hono Koa unit, and they said, "No."  It's silver with II and rarely seen in RCI.  There are only four units that are oceanfront in the resort, so apparently they don't put value on that.


----------



## tombo (Mar 12, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> Strange post for someone who was such a big Gold Crown advocate in another thread!  Don't you realize that SFX only deals in resorts that are Gold Crown or to Gold Crown standard? .




I don't feel like looking up resorts everywhere, but the SFX has the best resorts is a myth perpetuated by SFX for the good of SFX! Only Gold Crown resorts? Do you believe this stuff or just say it to deflect from the facts? Please look at the facts. SFX accepts many non rated resorts in areas where Gold crown resorts are available that they for some unknown reason do not accept. If you disliked SFX as much as you dislike RCI you would accuse them of having deals with developers. Why would they only accept ONE Silver crown resort as their only choice in the NC mountains when there are 7 other identically rated Silver Crowns and 2 Gold crowns they refuse to accept? If they only wanted one resort in the area you would expect it to be gold Crown, but it isn't. SFX must be making deals with developers, how else can some of their choices be explained? Lets look at some examples:

As I said in North Carolina mountains the only resort SFX accepts is Silver Crown. There are 2 gold crown resorts including the very high demand Chetola which is not on SFX's acceptable list. There are also 7 other equally rated Silver crown resorts that SFX won't accept. So if you use nothing but simlar rated resorts RCI offers 2 Gold Crown rated resorts that SFX does not, and 7 identically rated Silver Crown rated resorts that SFX doesn't.

In the Gatlinburg area SFX has one Gold Crown RCI reort and one that is in II. RCI has 4 additional gold Crown resorts not offered by SFX. 5 Gold crown in RCI, one in SFX. Do the math and see where I have a better chance to get a Gold crown resort. Combine Silver Crown to Gold Crown resorts RCI has in the areaI  and the available inventory blows SFX away!

In Tennessee SFX has 2 GoldCrown resorts out of 4 total resorts.  RCI has 11 Gold Crown resorts. Just counting Gold and Silver crown resorts (nothing lower rated which RCI also as), RCI has 16 Tennessee resorts as opposed to 4 total resorts of any kind offered by SFX. 

In Myrtle beach SFX has 6 resorts in Myrtle beach of which 4 are Gold crown and one is II. 4 gold Crown options using SFX on Myrtle beach but RCI has 11 Gold Crown resorts. SFX has one Silver Crown on Myrtle beach. RCI has 8 Silver Crown resorts.

When it is shown in black and white that RCI has many more locations and much more availability than SFX, you once again try to change the focus to some non point like well SFX has gold crown. So does RCI, in fact every Gold Crown resort IS AN RCI RESORT or it wouldn't be rated as gold crown, duh. In fact RCI not only has every Gold Crown resort that SFX offers, it has MANY Gold and Silver Crown resorts not available through SFX. In fact in some cases RCI has the ONLY Gold crown availability in certain areas where SFX has only Silver crown or lower. Which company offers more high quality resorts? RCI, so that argument is a non issue.

You think that RCI members will flock to SFX. Yes I am sure the new weeks program is going to make people who own resorts that SFX DOESN"T ACCEPT FOR DEPOSIT swap to SFX. The majority of TUGGERS OWN WEEKS SFX WON"T ACCEPT because SFX doesn't accept but a limited number of US resorts, not the 6200 RCI does. I am also sure that when people like myself want to go the the NC mountains that they will NEVER deposit an acceptable SFX week for their limited NC resorts/locations when RCI has many more (and better) resorts. I don't care how valuable my week is in SFX, if I want to go to the panhandle I can't get what I want using SFX. If I want New Orleans, nope. Tybee island, impossible with SFX. Myrtle Beach much beter in RCI, etc,etc,etc. People don't leave an exchange company that accepts their weeks for one that doesn't. people don't leavean exchange company for one that doesn't offer exchanges to resorts/areas they like to exchange in to.

As far as the new program hurting RCI, it will more likely hurt SFX. Once the prime week owners who used to deposit in SFX realize that they can get 2 to 3 weeks depositing with RCI over one week using SFX, why would anyone continue to throw their prime weeks into SFX? They won't. When Maui owners that want to go to HHI on exchange realize that they can exchange their week in Maui for 2 WEEKS ON HHI with RCI and get CHANGE BACK rather than one week in SFX, I am sure they will deposit with RCI. Who wouldn't? When they look at the TPU's they get and the amount of TPU's it will cost them to exchange for other places the choice will be clear. In the near future when you deposit a HHI week with SFX hoping for Maui, they won't be any availability because the owners that used to deposit with SFX will have taken advantage of the trading power of what they own by depositing it in RCI instead. 

I feel that that the new RCI weeks program will make the number of HIGH QUALITY PRIME WEEK deposits into SFX fall drastically as they realize it is stupid to exchange one for one with SFX when they can do better in RCI. When a two  bed unit in Maui can exchange for 2 two bed DVC units in RCI with change back versus one DVC week (if any are available) with SFX, the choice will be a no brainer. Once the prime weeks dry up in SFX, so will the company.


----------



## sandkastle4966 (Mar 12, 2011)

I am a "high demand" type trader - I ski every year for 4 weeks.  For the most part, I hold primo weeks - and had no trouble getting great exchanges.  I was afraid that "open RCI" would hurt that - with "medium" weeks being combined and "taking" the primo stuff.  I have NOT seen that at all.  I think traders are more about what it costs in real dollars and if they get 20,  they are trading 20, and not going up to the 30+ that I am using.  (and getting 45 - 60) for my weeks !

(next year I am doing both French Ridge and Val Chatelle back to back - so will be an interesting comparasion.  FR has the "advantage" of being right at Breck,  however, I consider it a disadvantage as I prefer to be residential location of VC (quiet), and having more ski choices about the same distance.


----------



## tombo (Mar 12, 2011)

sandkastle4966 said:


> I am a "high demand" type trader - I ski every year for 4 weeks.  For the most part, I hold primo weeks - and had no trouble getting great exchanges.  I was afraid that "open RCI" would hurt that - with "medium" weeks being combined and "taking" the primo stuff.  I have NOT seen that at all.  I think traders are more about what it costs in real dollars and if they get 20,  they are trading 20, and not going up to the 30+ that I am using.  (and getting 45 - 60) for my weeks !
> 
> (next year I am doing both French Ridge and Val Chatelle back to back - so will be an interesting comparasion.  FR has the "advantage" of being right at Breck,  however, I consider it a disadvantage as I prefer to be residential location of VC (quiet), and having more ski choices about the same distance.



For most traders I think you are hitting it right on the head. Most owners pay $500 to $1000 for each week they own in annual MF's. If they have to trade 2 weeks with $1200 total in annual MF's (on the 2 weeks), and a $99 fee to combine weeks, and $179 exchange fee they (we) will not combine weeks to exchange unless it will be cheaper than renting the week. For most locations you can rent from an owner for cheaper than $1500, so it it makes more sense for owners to keep their weeks and rent from others. Combining for no other reason than to trade for most weeks/resorts/locations does not make sense. 

If you have deposits already banked that are old and about to expire then combining makes sense to extend their life and not lose them. If you want to exchange for a hard to get week that requires high TPU's like a prime ski week or a Manhattan Club week that you can't get on trade unless you combine weeks, then it might be worth it because you can't rent a week in a one bed room in New York or a prime 2 bed ski week  for less than $2000. If you make several trades and have a lot of left over points it might be worth it to combine those left over points with another deposit or deposit(s) to create a pool to trade for high TPU weeks. If you have a week(s) paid for you can't use personally it might be worth $179 and $99 to get some value out of those weeks you would otherwise not want to or be able to use. In those cases once you combine you will be able to compete for high TPU weeks even though you might not have deposited one yourself. 

In most cases if your week is worth 20 TPU's that is what you will trade for because that is what makes the most financial sense.


----------

