# Chat with Diamond Sr VP



## Fried_shrimp (Mar 24, 2021)

I want to share a conversation I had this evening with Maria Kalber regarding the expected purchase by HGVC of Diamond Resorts (I also posted this on the HGVC thread about the takeover of Diamond as there is a lively discussion over there as well). She is the Senior VP of Customer Service Operations for Diamond Resorts. Very nice lady and we had a good chat. This is in reference to an email I sent to the CEO's office.

Maria stated that they are trying to be transparent and is going to check on two of my concerns in the underlying documents to see if they can be changed or not by HGVC (number of nights minimum and reservations fees). She stated that just as Diamond did not force people to move from whatever system they were in when Diamond took over a company, HGVC will not force people to move to HGVC when/if they take over (meaning the HGVC way of doing business). The takeover is not guaranteed as it still has to be approved but expected closing date is the second week of June. If the sale is completed, Diamond will be a sub-division of HGVC and will continue to operate under the rules of the Trust we are in. That cannot be changed. Rules for The Club benefits can change (as they always could be in the past). This is where my sticking point with 2 night minimum and reservation fees comes into play as I don't no which document supports that, they have just always been in place. She is going to find those out for me. Obviously, HGVC is going to give folks the chance (probably numerous times) to somehow become part of HGVC (most likely convert your DRI points to HGVC points), for a price of course, but just as people still own fixed weeks in Gold Key or points in Monarch, we will effectively be allowed to exchange as we always have in the past unless we "upgrade". This was the basic gist of the conversation. I hope this puts everyone a little more at ease and I will post any additional info I receive though I don't expect to see anything truly concrete about what will change and what won't change until after the sale is compete in June (if it goes through that is).


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## sarahsliefie (Mar 24, 2021)

It will definitely be interesting to see what they offer. I have several "dirty" accounts and one club account. I would gladly pay a fee to roll them all into one and transfer them to the new system. But who knows what they'll be willing to offer


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## Fried_shrimp (Mar 29, 2021)

Received a response from Maria today. She didn't answer all of the questions I had asked (and answered one I didn't ask) so I sent a follow up email and will report back with that when I get a response. Here is her email.


Robbie,

This is a follow-up to our recent conversation and your inquiries.

The reservation rights for existing members can't be altered to less than 13 months as set forth in the governing documents by Collection. Regardless of any future changes, your priority access to the Collection Accommodations as set forth will remain 13 months. The two (2) night minimum is not a guaranteed reservation right. If the transaction does go through, any modifications to Diamond’s existing programs would seek to expand the members’ use and enjoyment of their membership, not restrict it. There is nothing to suggest that the two (2) day minimum nightly stay would be disrupted or that core elements of membership would be negatively altered. 

Please let me know if you have further questions.

Regards,

Maria


*Maria Kalber *| Senior Vice President of Customer Service and Club Operations


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## dougp26364 (Mar 29, 2021)

Fried_shrimp said:


> Received a response from Maria today. She didn't answer all of the questions I had asked (and answered one I didn't ask) so I sent a follow up email and will report back with that when I get a response. Here is her email.
> 
> 
> Robbie,
> ...



That sort of surprises and disappoints me that the 2 night minimum booking isn’t guaranteed, but Diamond was good at non-guaranteed things. At Polo Towers there was a beautiful owners lounge on the top floor with great views of the strip. It was heavily sold as a benefit of ownership. A few years and it was no longer just an owners lounge, they made it an ultra club open to the public. After that they closed it and turned it into office space. It might have been sold as a benefit, but not guaranteed as a benefit. 

I think it would be a mistake for Hilton to make substantial changes to a program owners have enjoyed, unless there is clear evidence that very few owners book as few as two nights.


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## Fried_shrimp (Mar 29, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> That sort of surprises and disappoints me that the 2 night minimum booking isn’t guaranteed, but Diamond was good at non-guaranteed things. At Polo Towers there was a beautiful owners lounge on the top floor with great views of the strip. It was heavily sold as a benefit of ownership. A few years and it was no longer just an owners lounge, they made it an ultra club open to the public. After that they closed it and turned it into office space. It might have been sold as a benefit, but not guaranteed as a benefit.
> 
> I think it would be a mistake for Hilton to make substantial changes to a program owners have enjoyed, unless there is clear evidence that very few owners book as few as two nights.



The club at the top is part of the sales center now and is also used for EOLs.

I would think it would be a mistake to if Hilton did that but many companies have made many mistakes in the past.


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 30, 2021)

Hilton has historically been slow to change owner reservation policies but if they do, it is usually to create better alignment across properties and they are usually tweeks, not massive change. Who knows? maybe they would reduce HGVC to two days.  Why assume only one scenario?

OTOH they may treat it like bHC portfolio and say "this is a different set of rules.' The By Hilton Club properties (NYC, DC) and a few Hawaii properties have different club reservation windows. By Hilton Club offers one night options with a housekeeping fee to cover less than 3 nights stays.  IMO as an owner who stays more than 3 nights because we travel from the west coast, we don't want to subsidize housekeeping costs that others incur in our MF. So this is the fairest way to handle this and keeps our MF low.


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## Fried_shrimp (Mar 30, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Hilton has historically been slow to change owner reservation policies but if they do, it is usually to create better alignment across properties and they are usually tweeks, not massive change. Who knows? maybe they would reduce HGVC to two days.  Why assume only one scenario?
> 
> OTOH they may treat it like bHC portfolio and say "this is a different set of rules.' The By Hilton Club properties (NYC, DC) and a few Hawaii properties have different club reservation windows. By Hilton Club offers one night options with a housekeeping fee to cover less than 3 nights stays.  IMO as an owner who stays more than 3 nights because we travel from the west coast, we don't want to subsidize housekeeping costs that others incur in our MF. So this is the fairest way to handle this and keeps our MF low.



First, I make the assumptions based on what Diamond has done after it acquired numerous properties. Second, I make assumptions based on who is making the purchase. There were a LOT of nervous HGVC owners a year ago when the was talk of Apollo/Diamond acquiring HGVC. Lucky for y'all, that didn't pan out and now the shoe is on the other foot.

Diamond has no housekeeping costs. It is inclusive in our maint fees. We have always been a nightly based system and there is no expectation of spending a full week (and many people stay longer than a week. We can have a reservation as long as 84 nights).


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## CalGalTraveler (Mar 31, 2021)

Fried_shrimp said:


> First, I make the assumptions based on what Diamond has done after it acquired numerous properties. Second, I make assumptions based on who is making the purchase. There were a LOT of nervous HGVC owners a year ago when the was talk of Apollo/Diamond acquiring HGVC. Lucky for y'all, that didn't pan out and now the shoe is on the other foot.
> 
> Diamond has no housekeeping costs. It is inclusive in our maint fees. We have always been a nightly based system and there is no expectation of spending a full week (and many people stay longer than a week. We can have a reservation as long as 84 nights).



Thanks for sharing the conversation with Diamond exec. I understand your fears. Their intention to run this as a separate division makes sense. IMHO...HGVC management is well trusted and respected by TUG owners (sales reps no so much but hey this is the TS industry.)

I thought Diamond has deeded owners too? Are those owners able to book per night?

My point is the HGVC system is not uniform 3 night minimum and already has resorts with one night as well as discounted last minute stays for all properties which are minimum of two nights. Their system MO is set up to handle these differences. Similar to you as an elite Diamond, I do not pay reservation fees for my HGVC reservations.

HGVC historically has been efficient with MF relative to competitors - especially MVC and Vistana in the same location. For example:


Vegas, MF can be $900 - 1100 (Elara, Blvd, Paradise), MVC (Grand Chateau) 1200+ Polo Towers was more expensive per a Tugger.
Hawaii HGVC ($1500 - $1800 most units), Vistana/MVC $2400 - 2800), KBC, Point at Poipu (same or more???)

Yet HGVC quality is consistent with MVC/Vistana at most resorts. They should be able to bring these efficiencies,  volume buying power, and scale to the Diamond relationship. In addition, they are positioning Diamond as a Hampton Inn vs. a Full Hilton, so they will not have as much pressure from Hilton brand to spend as much to raise quality as they would properties that will be HGVC portfolio. This will have less of an effect on MF if any (especially if Diamond was inefficient with MF which some Tuggers reported.)

As with any acquisition there will be some consolidation of resources for cost efficiency and I expect that some less efficient, less desirable, or excess resorts from Diamond and HGVC will be sold or spun out.

I also anticipate that some low season hard to sell HGVC units will be added to the Trust, just as some Diamond deeded weeks and possibly Embarc will be added to HGVC.

What will be new to mgt will be trust point systems like Diamond. Although HGVC has points system it is set up like Vistana or MVC enrolled deeds where points are assigned a specific unit at a resort.  Because it is so different, the company will look like MVC which has their trust points system, and their separate deeded systems (Vistana/staroptions), Hyatt etc..  (and MVC after several years still hasn't integrated the programs and still has many weeks deeded owners.) Based on this, I don't expect any major integration for many years if at all.

As we share across HGVC/Diamond forums, maybe we can figure this out.   Thanks for sharing this info.


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## Fried_shrimp (Mar 31, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thanks for sharing the conversation with Diamond exec. I understand your fears. Their intention to run this as a separate division makes sense. IMHO...HGVC management is well trusted and respected by TUG owners (sales reps no so much but hey this is the TS industry.)
> 
> I thought Diamond has deeded owners too? Are those owners able to book per night?
> 
> ...



There are still legacy owners who are week owners. While they pay their maint fees to Diamond, that's really the only connection they have with Diamond. They can exchange through DEX, RCI, or II depending on what their legacy status allowed. No, those owners cannot book nightly unless they purchase a points package in addition to their deeded week.

No Diamond owner pays reservation fees within Diamond, not just Platinum (equal to your Elite Premier). And HGVC is definitely not going to give me Elite Premier status just because I'm Platinum with Diamond. If they keep the systems separate then that won't matter anyway which would be fine with me.


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## Fried_shrimp (Mar 31, 2021)

To add to this thread, I did receive an email from the Sr VP stating that Diamond owners would not have to pay reservation fees to book within Diamond after the merger for Diamond managed resorts. How it affects booking with an affiliate resort is up to negotiation. That makes me feel a lot better (effectively I should be able to continue using my Diamond points as I have in the past).


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## cd5 (Apr 4, 2021)

"I also anticipate that some low season hard to sell HGVC units will be added to the Trust, just as some Diamond deeded weeks and possibly Embarc will be added to HGVC."

Embarc is in a trust as well and won't be "added" to HGVC except perhaps as an affiliate or exchange partner as per our previous "relationship" when Intrawest was the developer. Diamond certainly would have modified the way Embarc operates had they been able to but to paraphrase Mark Nuzzo in our most recent BoD meeting "the walls around the Embarc trust are pretty solid". No question that Embarc is up to HGVC standards and that they may want to take advantage of that somehow, however I expect it will be through developer "benefits" such as Extraordinary Escapes (EE). Embarc's trust points are 97% member-owned, the developer currently has about 3%. There are about 22,000 members in Embarc, 9 clubs. Members can only exchange outside the 9 clubs by being members of DEX (which has replaced II in EE --> the Embarc equivalent of "The Club), II or another exchange company. Previous to the Diamond acquisition of Embarc, members could reserve directly with HGVC (and vice versa) if they were EE members. All are hoping this resumes...


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## dayooper (Apr 4, 2021)

I think some sort of exchange with Embarc is probable. What the requirements for the ability to exchange will be, that’s the question. I’m sure HGVC sales would love a chance to sell to more existing owners. Use exchanges to get existing Embarc members into presentations and, to quote Randolph Duke in the 80’s movie Trading Places, Sell, Sell, Sell!


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 4, 2021)

cd5 said:


> "I also anticipate that some low season hard to sell HGVC units will be added to the Trust, just as some Diamond deeded weeks and possibly Embarc will be added to HGVC."
> 
> Embarc is in a trust as well and won't be "added" to HGVC except perhaps as an affiliate or exchange partner as per our previous "relationship" when Intrawest was the developer. Diamond certainly would have modified the way Embarc operates had they been able to but to paraphrase Mark Nuzzo in our most recent BoD meeting "the walls around the Embarc trust are pretty solid". No question that Embarc is up to HGVC standards and that they may want to take advantage of that somehow, however I expect it will be through developer "benefits" such as Extraordinary Escapes (EE). Embarc's trust points are 97% member-owned, the developer currently has about 3%. There are about 22,000 members in Embarc, 9 clubs. Members can only exchange outside the 9 clubs by being members of DEX (which has replaced II in EE --> the Embarc equivalent of "The Club), II or another exchange company. Previous to the Diamond acquisition of Embarc, members could reserve directly with HGVC (and vice versa) if they were EE members. All are hoping this resumes...



I hope they connect HGVC and Embarc like the past. We loved staying at the Whistler property and had other Embarc properties on our bucket list before Diamond acquired.

IMHO...I don't believe they will require an upcharge for affiliate access because HGVC needs the additional Embarc properties to create upsell for Diamond Trust owners. As many Diamond owners indicated here, HGVC quality alone would not be considered for upsell because of limited locations. Perhaps they may want to upsell if it included access to the Embarc properties as well as better access to Diamond deeded weeks at top resorts. If Diamond deeded owners know they can freely exchange and get short stay s in HGVC and Embarc similar to HGVC owners this would make these properties more fluid and available as HGV club is today.


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## cd5 (Apr 4, 2021)

*CalGal Traveler:* I will repeat again since it doesn't seem to be clear from my other post - Diamond members can't exchange into Embarc whether deeded or points unless an Embarc member relinquishes their unit using an exchange company or because they own both and are members of The Club (and give up their Embarc points to go to a Diamond property - giving a Diamond member access). There is a complete wall around Embarc and Diamond members have no access - because of the terms of the Embarc Master Declaration (governance documents). They're not going to be able to upsell that way - the points are 97% sold - points are tied to current accommodation/beds and they're not something that can be added to in the trust unless properties of equal "quality" are added to the trust. Changes of the nature you describe are virtually impossible - Mark Nuzzo admitted as much in our board meeting last week.


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## dayooper (Apr 4, 2021)

cd5 said:


> *CalGal Traveler:* I will repeat again since it doesn't seem to be clear from my other post - Diamond members can't exchange into Embarc whether deeded or points unless an Embarc member relinquishes their unit using an exchange company or because they own both and are members of The Club (and give up their Embarc points to go to a Diamond property - giving a Diamond member access). There is a complete wall around Embarc and Diamond members have no access - because of the terms of the Embarc Master Declaration (governance documents). They're not going to be able to upsell that way - the points are 97% sold - points are tied to current accommodation/beds and they're not something that can be added to in the trust unless properties of equal "quality" are added to the trust. Changes of the nature you describe are virtually impossible - Mark Nuzzo admitted as much in our board meeting last week.



The access to Embarc from HGVC is the selling point. HGVC being able to being exchange with Embarc gives more locations One of the biggest issues with HGVC is lack of locations. The thought process is the additional Embarc locations would give help give HGVC more locations.


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## nuwermj (Apr 4, 2021)

cd5 said:


> *CalGal Traveler:* I will repeat again since it doesn't seem to be clear from my other post - Diamond members can't exchange into Embarc whether deeded or points unless an Embarc member relinquishes their unit using an exchange company or because they own both and are members of The Club (and give up their Embarc points to go to a Diamond property - giving a Diamond member access). There is a complete wall around Embarc and Diamond members have no access - because of the terms of the Embarc Master Declaration (governance documents). They're not going to be able to upsell that way - the points are 97% sold - points are tied to current accommodation/beds and they're not something that can be added to in the trust unless properties of equal "quality" are added to the trust. Changes of the nature you describe are virtually impossible - Mark Nuzzo admitted as much in our board meeting last week.



I wonder whether HGV's management might be thinking about making Embarc their primer HGVC trust product. Diamond's Club can be rebranded and sold separately as "HGV". But the HGVC deeded product might be sold as a deed and trust product. Here are few things Mark Wang said in his presentation.

"We’ve been exploring the development of our own trust product internally, but the addition of Diamond’s trust allows us to accelerate that launch at scale and capitalizes on the advantages of both products [trust and deed] immediately."  The term "Diamond's trust" is ambiguous, as Diamond has about ten of them.

"Now, as far as what inventory can move around, we can move HGV product that we have into a trust if we want. We were looking at developing our own
trust. The benefit we’re getting here is we’re going to be able to roll out a new trust at scale. I think, over time, the market is really going to tell us what
percentage of our business will be sold trust and what percentage will be sold deed. So, we’re excited that we have both products, they’re both proven, and
we think it’s going to give us the best opportunity to capture the strongest market demand."

I don't think HGVC (upscale inventory) sold as a deed only product and HGV (lower level inventory) sold as a trust only product will be the business model after four or five years of transition. It seems that HGV corporate would like both deed and trust products sold to HGVC level customers. I don't see this as a "phase 1" goal, but maybe something in "phase 2." After all, properties of equal quality can be added to the Embarc trust. So, maybe the Embarc trust will be used to accelerate the launch of an HGVC trust "at scale."


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## dougp26364 (Apr 4, 2021)

nuwermj said:


> I wonder whether HGV's management might be thinking about making Embarc their primer HGVC trust product. Diamond's Club can be rebranded and sold separately as "HGV". But the HGVC deeded product might be sold as a deed and trust product. Here are few things Mark Wang said in his presentation.
> 
> "We’ve been exploring the development of our own trust product internally, but the addition of Diamond’s trust allows us to accelerate that launch at scale and capitalizes on the advantages of both products [trust and deed] immediately."  The term "Diamond's trust" is ambiguous, as Diamond has about ten of them.
> 
> ...



this should be interesting, but I suspect more difficult than HGVC is imagining.

Marriott has a blend of trust/deeded owners, but the trust product is of their own design, so moving deeds into trust or deeds into points that can reserve in the trust hasn’t been an issue. That is until they acquired SVN. It’s been a few years now and they still haven’t made significant progress to blend the programs.

I do look forward to the sales presentations and all the stories we’re going to have to listen too. Especially the “buy more now and be grandfathered in”. Of course no one will know what we’re being grandfathered into, but that’s not going to stop them from using that terminology.


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## cindyc (Apr 5, 2021)

Fried_shrimp said:


> There are still legacy owners who are week owners... No, those owners cannot book nightly unless they purchase a points package in addition to their deeded.



I am a deeded week owner at Sedona Summit. It is true that I cannot book nightly with my deeded week, but I can "split" my week into a 3 night (Fri/Sat/Sunday) and 4-night (M - Thur) stay. I don't know if that it true at other DRI resorts for deeded week owners. 



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## Fried_shrimp (Apr 6, 2021)

cindyc said:


> I am a deeded week owner at Sedona Summit. It is true that I cannot book nightly with my deeded week, but I can "split" my week into a 3 night (Fri/Sat/Sunday) and 4-night (M - Thur) stay. I don't know if that it true at other DRI resorts for deeded week owners.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk



Are you able to split your week through the resort or is it a mechanism through DEX or II?


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## Ernie McClellan (Apr 17, 2021)

sarahsliefie said:


> It will definitely be interesting to see what they offer. I have several "dirty" accounts and one club account. I would gladly pay a fee to roll them all into one and transfer them to the new system. But who knows what they'll be willing to offer



Can you help a novice? What makes it a “dirty” account?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dayooper (Apr 17, 2021)

Ernie McClellan said:


> Can you help a novice? What makes it a “dirty” account?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If I’m not mistaken, dirty points are those that were bought resale. They can only be used in the collection they belong in and don’t come with the perks that developer bought points do.


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## Ernie McClellan (Apr 17, 2021)

Got it!  Makes sense.


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## pedro47 (Apr 18, 2021)

Have you used the new DEX Exchange system.  Pro and cons comments.


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## cindyc (Apr 18, 2021)

Fried_shrimp said:


> Are you able to split your week through the resort or is it a mechanism through DEX or II?


I split my deeded week either online or through Owner Services. I own a 2 BR lockout and more specifically, when I go to make a reservation for my deeded week the system asks if I want to book the studio, 1 BR or 2 BR. I typically use the 1 bedroom and deposit the other in DEx. DEx for deeded owners is quite good.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## Rich S (Apr 18, 2021)

cindyc said:


> I am a deeded week owner at Sedona Summit. It is true that I cannot book nightly with my deeded week, but I can "split" my week into a 3 night (Fri/Sat/Sunday) and 4-night (M - Thur) stay. I don't know if that it true at other DRI resorts for deeded week owners.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


I am a deeded floating week owner at Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort.  I too can split my week (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) and (Monday thru Thursday).  There is a small fee for splitting the week (I think it's something like $50.00 05 $90.00 each time)


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## Chika (Jun 2, 2021)

Fried_shrimp said:


> I want to share a conversation I had this evening with Maria Kalber regarding the expected purchase by HGVC of Diamond Resorts (I also posted this on the HGVC thread about the takeover of Diamond as there is a lively discussion over there as well). She is the Senior VP of Customer Service Operations for Diamond Resorts. Very nice lady and we had a good chat. This is in reference to an email I sent to the CEO's office.
> 
> Maria stated that they are trying to be transparent and is going to check on two of my concerns in the underlying documents to see if they can be changed or not by HGVC (number of nights minimum and reservations fees). She stated that just as Diamond did not force people to move from whatever system they were in when Diamond took over a company, HGVC will not force people to move to HGVC when/if they take over (meaning the HGVC way of doing business). The takeover is not guaranteed as it still has to be approved but expected closing date is the second week of June. If the sale is completed, Diamond will be a sub-division of HGVC and will continue to operate under the rules of the Trust we are in. That cannot be changed. Rules for The Club benefits can change (as they always could be in the past). This is where my sticking point with 2 night minimum and reservation fees comes into play as I don't no which document supports that, they have just always been in place. She is going to find those out for me. Obviously, HGVC is going to give folks the chance (probably numerous times) to somehow become part of HGVC (most likely convert your DRI points to HGVC points), for a price of course, but just as people still own fixed weeks in Gold Key or points in Monarch, we will effectively be allowed to exchange as we always have in the past unless we "upgrade". This was the basic gist of the conversation. I hope this puts everyone a little more at ease and I will post any additional info I receive though I don't expect to see anything truly concrete about what will change and what won't change until after the sale is compete in June (if it goes through that is).


I am one who feels like running for another change with Diamond.  But I also own HGVC and prefer their business model.  Right now I would give them my Hawaii Platinum for anything they would give me...comments?


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## Chika (Jun 2, 2021)

Ernie McClellan said:


> Can you help a novice? What makes it a “dirty” account?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is the way they convince you to exchange for 'real points' and they do make life easier to be an 'owner'


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## Fried_shrimp (Jun 2, 2021)

Chika said:


> I am one who feels like running for another change with Diamond.  But I also own HGVC and prefer their business model.  Right now I would give them my Hawaii Platinum for anything they would give me...comments?



If it eventually comes down to where that can be done, it won't be done for free. You will have to make some sort of HGVC purchase in conjunction with exchanging your Diamond points in HGVC, just like Diamond does with old fix week or point owners in systems they took over.

That being said, why do you like HGVC business model better when everything I have seen shows HGVC nickel and diming their owners to death?


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