# [2009] Buying a clarinet? Any advice?



## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

A while back I asked about buying a cello. Well, predictably, that kid ended up dumping the lessons and moving on. 

Now my youngest is taking clarinet lessons and actually seem to enjoy them. The rental on the clarinet is surprisingly high, and I'm thinking about buying a clarinet for her. 

Any advice? Do you think it's safe-ish to buy one on eBay? If a clarinet needs refurbishing, is that expensive? Is it difficult to find a place that does it competently? 

Thanks for any info!


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 12, 2009)

*Clarinets Are Outstanding.*




wackymother said:


> Now my youngest is taking clarinet lessons and actually seem to enjoy them. The rental on the clarinet is surprisingly high, and I'm thinking about buying a clarinet for her.
> 
> Any advice? Do you think it's safe-ish to buy one on eBay? If a clarinet needs refurbishing, is that expensive? Is it difficult to find a place that does it competently?
> 
> Thanks for any info!


Best advice is to stay away from the no-name _el cheapo_ clarinets (also saxophones, flutes, etc.) -- I mean the kind that flood eBay and that have slowed the progress of young music students because those _el cheapo_ no-name horns are so difficult to play, not to mention virtually impossible to repair.  Those _el cheapos_ are so bad that some music teachers call them "instrument-shaped objects" rather than real instruments -- even though the shiny new _el cheapos_ start off looking great. 

It's not necessary to buy a brand-new clarinet, but you can pretty much count on needing repairs -- pads, springs, keywork adjustments, etc. -- on used clarinets.  It may take some digging to find a good woodwind instrument technician locally, but it's worth it.  I'd guess a complete clarinet overhaul with new pads & new corks & new springs & everything would cost in the neighborhood of $200.  (That's just a guess.  I play horn, not clarinet -- not that there's anything wrong with clarinets.)

A used clarinet that is has cracks, breaks, missing parts, etc., is no good for playing -- making a lamp, maybe, but that's about it. 

The "good" names in clarinets include Noblet & Yamaha & Conn & Leblanc & Selmer (_not_ Selman -- Selman is an _el cheapo_ knock-off), etc.  Selmer's student-line clarinets for a long time carried the Bundy brand & student Leblanc clarinets carried the Vito brand.  

The Big Three USA instrument companies have had their business eroded so badly by sales of those eBay _el cheapo_ no-name instruments that Conn & Selmer & Leblanc have all 3 shrunk drastically & now are all owned by the same parent company, which also owns the Steinway piano works.  It's as if Honda & Toyota & Nissan were all taken over by a single owner.

Many if not most student clarinets are plastic (resin, ebonite, etc.).  Professional clarinets are typically wooden.  Wood clarinets don't automatically play better than plastic clarinets & plastic clarinets don't automatically play worse than wood clarinets.  

Your daughter's clarinet teacher should be able to offer some practical guidance about selecting a good instrument. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Corman (Jun 12, 2009)

We have purchased musical instruments  for our kids off eBay. A few years back we bought a brand new flute for my daughter for I think $125 with shipping and taxes. When she decided she no longer wanted to play it we sold it on Craig’s list for $120.  
 The manufacturer was based in the USA and sold many other instruments on eBay. The music teacher was impressed with the quality and sound of the flute. 
I say get them started off with one from eBay and when you belive it's the instrument the kid will stick with then look into upgrading.   


                               Good luck


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 12, 2009)

*eBay Is. O. K.*

No problem buying eBay clarinets -- just skip the no-name _el cheapos_ & stick with Yamaha & Selmer (Bundy) & Leblanc (Vito) & Conn & Noblet, etc. 

Also, be prepared to spend a little $$$ to get your eBay clarinet put in great playing condition after it's delivered. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

Thanks! This is just the kind of info I'm looking for. So, to summarize, 

Good names are....
Selmer
LeBlanc
Noblet 
Yamaha
Conn 
Bundy
Vito

Bad names are...
Selman
and anything that sounds like a knockoff of one of the better brands

Other tips: 
Wood is not automatically good
Plastic is not automatically bad
Avoid cracks, breaks, missing parts
Be prepared to spend about $200 for overhaul 

All okay? Thank you again! 

I'm waiting for Sfwilshire to weigh in, I know she has a musical family.


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

Here's a handy list of bad brands (or CSOs, Clarinet-Shaped Objects), from a board about woodwinds. Anybody disagree with any of these? 

Laval, Rex, Diamond, Monique, Wexler, Weimer, Heinse, Gruskin, Parrot, Bestler, BandNow, Cecilio, Simba, First Act, Harmony, Lindo, Selman, Bentley, Hawk, Iolite, Sky, Schill, Bridgecraft, Wernburg, Jinyin, Heimer, Maxtone, Artemis, Venus, Cibaili, Grand, Blue Moon, Steuben, Top Tone, Earlham, Lark, Palatino, Elkhart Series, Johnson


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 12, 2009)

*Public Service Award.*

Whoever compiled that list has done a major serious public service & deserves an award. 

That list, BTW, covers not just Clarinet Shaped Objects.  Many of the same brand names appear on Horn Shaped Objects & Trumpet Shaped Objects & Saxophone Shaped Objects & Trombone Shaped Objects & Flute Shaped Objects & so on & so forth right on down the line. 

Forewarned is forearmed. 

Keep in mind also that some uncommon brand names go with extreme high-end professional wind instruments, but none of those unfamiliar names are anywhere on the _el cheapo_ list. So just because it's not Yahama, Conn, etc., that doesn't mean it's automatically cheap junk.  But for student instruments sticking with the quality names & avoiding the Selmans, etc., remains good advice. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

I feel like, if I 'm going to spend $200 or so on refurbing it, I don't want it to be a hunk of junk. Same clarinet board says Henkin is good, Epoch bad. Here's the link--I would post to the board, but it doesn't seem to be very active. 

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/archive/index.php/t-34124.html


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## Luanne (Jun 12, 2009)

I know nothing about clarinets, in fact I know nothing about choosing a good musical instrument. We bought our older dd's first flute in NYC without her even trying it.  I guess that was a *bad* thing to do.   A few years later when we got her a better one we went to our local music store, worked with them, and had her try out a few flutes.

Just realize that if you dd sticks with it, this will most likely be her first instrument and you will be replacing it several years down the line.  The good thing was that dd used her old flute for marching band since she didn't care if it got beat up or wet.


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

Luanne said:


> A few years later when we got her a better one we went to our local music store, worked with them, and had her try out a few flutes.



That's what I really should do, support a local business, but one of the local stores specializes in strings, to the point where they couldn't even give us advice about what kind of reeds to buy, and the other leans heavily toward guitars and drums.


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## Luanne (Jun 12, 2009)

I think someone suggested asking her music teacher for advice?  I'd ask for their input on where to buy.

We have a few music stores in the area who sell all kinds of instruments. Those are also the stores that handle the rentals, and where our dds have taken some of their music lessons.  When older dd was in high school the band director had someone from one of the stores come to a band boosters meeting to talk to us about buying instruments.  It was very helpful.


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

Luanne said:


> I think someone suggested asking her music teacher for advice?  I'd ask for their input on where to buy.



Already asked her--not helpful. Nice, but not helpful.


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## Luanne (Jun 12, 2009)

wackymother said:


> Already asked her--not helpful. Nice, but not helpful.



So, back to square one.  But, you said you are renting a clarinet for her now.  Does that store sell them as well?


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

Luanne said:


> So, back to square one.  But, you said you are renting a clarinet for her now.  Does that store sell them as well?



Maybe, but they're really far away--shockingly far in densely packed northern NJ. They seem to just have the contract with our school district to provide band instruments. (The local store with the strings provides the orchestra instruments.) I'm not even sure if the far-away store does sell instruments; they seem to be rentals only. 

There's also a Sam Ash, where we ended up renting the cello. We have to bring it back this weekend, so I can look at clarinets there.


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## Hoc (Jun 12, 2009)

Buffet Crampon S-1 if you can get it at a reasonable price.  Otherwise go for an R-13.


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## Luanne (Jun 12, 2009)

wackymother said:


> There's also a Sam Ash, where we ended up renting the cello. We have to bring it back this weekend, so I can look at clarinets there.



That may be where we bought older dd's first flute.  I know we bought younger dd a used Gibson Les Paul electric guitar when we were in NYC several years ago.  She *loves* that guitar.


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## pjrose (Jun 12, 2009)

I have bought my kids' instruments used from a small local music store.  The kids got to try the instruments, quality was good, price reasonable, and service and advice top-notch.

Summer is a pretty good time to buy it, as they've probably just gotten back rentals from the school year.  Ask them to go through the returned rentals as they clean and service them, and pick a good one for you.

Re the cheapos that everyone above says to stay away from, several of the repairmen we've talked to says that besides poor quality, parts are difficult if not impossible to get, so when it needs service, forget it.

Stick with a quality used instrument.


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

pjrose said:


> Summer is a pretty good time to buy it, as they've probably just gotten back rentals from the school year.  Ask them to go through the returned rentals as they clean and service them, and pick a good one for you.



Oh, that's a good idea! I'll chitchat with the Sam Ash guy when we take the cello back. 



> Re the cheapos that everyone above says to stay away from, several of the repairmen we've talked to says that besides poor quality, parts are difficult if not impossible to get, so when it needs service, forget it.
> 
> Stick with a quality used instrument.



It's my curse that I have to feel like I got something really nice for a moderate price. My father played the clarinet, so of course in my heart of hearts I want one just like his.


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## BSQ (Jun 12, 2009)

I'm partial to Selmer.  Within the brands there are many different models, so even just saying look for a Selmer, Bundy, etc  could still make the task confusing. 

For a used student horn I like the Selmer Signet series.  It has good tone ... but that's the other caveat about buying one that you haven't seen in person ... the same model can sound slightly different when played.

If you are shopping used instruments in person, having your daughter play a chromatic scale will give you an indication if there are any bad keys or pads. (not 100% since there are alternate fingerings for some notes, but it will cover just about every key).


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## Stressy (Jun 12, 2009)

Hi Wacky,

I have used this company to purchase a beginning trumpet for my son some years ago http://www.1800usaband.com/ It was recommended by our band director. They had nice beginner packages that included the book he used, etc. They let you make payments no problem. Payments were less than rental-so I felt like if he abandoned it-at least I still owned the instrument.

When he bumped up to playing Baritone-I bought on Ebay-but I knew what I was looking for. Bought Yamaha from a guy who basically played in HS and then let it sit in a closet. Great deal and only a minor pad-issue that was resoved at the local music store.

DD played my flute (Bundy) still in great shape after all these years.

Good luck in your search!


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

BSQ said:


> I'm partial to Selmer.  Within the brands there are many different models, so even just saying look for a Selmer, Bundy, etc  could still make the task confusing.
> 
> For a used student horn I like the Selmer Signet series.  It has good tone ... but that's the other caveat about buying one that you haven't seen in person ... the same model can sound slightly different when played.
> 
> If you are shopping used instruments in person, having your daughter play a chromatic scale will give you an indication if there are any bad keys or pads. (not 100% since there are alternate fingerings for some notes, but it will cover just about every key).



Good to know. There are indeed a wide range of styles for every brand name--it's a little overwhelming!


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

Hoc said:


> Buffet Crampon S-1 if you can get it at a reasonable price.  Otherwise go for an R-13.



Can I ask you--is "Buffet" a different brand than "Buffet Crampon"? Because I'm seeing professional quality "Buffet Crampons" and then ordinary-looking "Buffets."


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## Conan (Jun 12, 2009)

Hoc said:


> Buffet Crampon S-1 if you can get it at a reasonable price.  Otherwise go for an R-13.



I second the vote for Buffet Crampon R-13.

If buying used, you need a qualified player or repair person to test it for you (worthwhile if buying new too).

Older violins and saxophones are often better than what you can buy new.  Not so clarinets:  fortunately top quality clarinets cost maybe 5% of what top quality strings cost, because tp clarinets tend to break down with age.


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## luvsvacation22 (Jun 12, 2009)

I just bought a Yamaha Flute made in Japan for my daughter. I paid three hundred dollars for an eight hundred dollar flute. I found a reputable music teacher who sells instruments on Ebay. 

Here is his ad  "I am a high school band director that worked 7 summers in a band instrument repair shop specializing in flutes and clarinets, so this instrument has been professionally disassembled, cleaned and polished, adjusted, and play tested to ensure it is ready to play. It plays easily to low C with a light touch. Perfect for a student enrolled in band. Get out from under expensive monthly payments! FREE TUNING/CLEANING ROD AND FREE SHIPPING WITH BUY IT NOW!  (Wait for adjusted invoice to be sent so shipping can be deducted).  100% positive feedback on over 700 transactions - bid/buy with assurance of a worry free purchase "

 He sells Clarinets too! We were very, very happy with the flute we purchased! We would highly recommend him!

Here is the link, but at the moment he has no instruments for sale! I would check daily! http://myworld.ebay.com/ready-to-play/


Here is another one I would have purchased! They provided musical instruments for schools that can't afford them and Ebay is a side business for them. I have not purchased from them but I spoke to them over the phone. Feedback is 100% 1684! http://myworld.ebay.com/hyson-music/

For $239.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/CERTIFIED-YAMAH...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

Or this one for $279.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/CERTIFIED-YAMAH...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

Good Luck! 
Dorene


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 12, 2009)

*The Real McCoy.*




wackymother said:


> Can I ask you--is "Buffet" a different brand than "Buffet Crampon"? Because I'm seeing professional quality "Buffet Crampons" and then ordinary-looking "Buffets."


Buffet Crampon (Paris) is the real deal. 

Just plain "Buffet," not so much. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## wackymother (Jun 12, 2009)

Thanks to everybody! I'm continuing the search. I didn't know that clarinets break down with age. Does everybody agree with that? I'm of the "older is better" school of thought, so it's a little shocking to me. I thought an older instrument, properly refurbished, would be a good bet. No?


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## 3kids4me (Jun 13, 2009)

This is an interesting thread.  I have an old Buffet Crampon (Paris) clarinet which is from around 1979, I think...unless my parents bought it used at the time.  I remember they used to tell me what a great instrument it was.  I don't play the clarinet (my son started to play it in school band many years ago,  but gave up...he is a drummer now) and at one time was thinking of getting it refurbished and selling it...but don't even know how to go about that or if it is worth it!  Nice to know it's a good brand!


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## wackymother (Jun 13, 2009)

From what I'm seeing online, you probably don't need to get it refurbished yourself. Some musicians seem to like to get the refurbishing done themselves, to their own specs.


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## wackymother (Jun 13, 2009)

Look, Sharon. It's Benny Goodman's clarinet! He played a Buffet Crampon, and it's in the Smithsonian. Click on the little pic at right for more info on the clarinet.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/The-Object-at-Hand-1967-Buffet-Crampon.html#


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## BSQ (Jun 13, 2009)

wackymother said:


> Thanks to everybody! I'm continuing the search. I didn't know that clarinets break down with age. Does everybody agree with that? I'm of the "older is better" school of thought, so it's a little shocking to me. I thought an older instrument, properly refurbished, would be a good bet. No?



Yes they can.  It depends on how well the owner took care of it.  If it's wood, and not taken care of, the wood can dry out and eventually begin to crack.  Refurb usually takes care of pads, springs, cork and keys.  Occasionally a section will be replaced like the barrel (the short section the mouth piece connects to).  

Is buying an older horn always a risk, not necessarily.  Kinf of like a car, it just depends on how well a person took care of it.  I've not played regularly for close to 20 years, but I still oil and maintain my horns.  At a swap meet I bought a silver clarinet for $40.  It's in immaculate shape and I do play that one a little more often than the others.  It was made in 1930.

This may go without saying, but if you buy used, do buy a new mouth piece.


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## 3kids4me (Jun 13, 2009)

wackymother said:


> Look, Sharon. It's Benny Goodman's clarinet! He played a Buffet Crampon, and it's in the Smithsonian. Click on the little pic at right for more info on the clarinet.
> 
> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/The-Object-at-Hand-1967-Buffet-Crampon.html#



Yeah...somehow I think mine might not be as valuable...lol....


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## wackymother (Jun 13, 2009)

BSQ said:


> Yes they can.  It depends on how well the owner took care of it.  If it's wood, and not taken care of, the wood can dry out and eventually begin to crack.  Refurb usually takes care of pads, springs, cork and keys.  Occasionally a section will be replaced like the barrel (the short section the mouth piece connects to).
> 
> Is buying an older horn always a risk, not necessarily.  Kinf of like a car, it just depends on how well a person took care of it.  I've not played regularly for close to 20 years, but I still oil and maintain my horns.  At a swap meet I bought a silver clarinet for $40.  It's in immaculate shape and I do play that one a little more often than the others.  It was made in 1930.
> 
> This may go without saying, but if you buy used, do buy a new mouth piece.




Okay, just back from Sam Ash. Among their student clarinets, they had a used Selmar 1400 for $250 including case and mouthpiece and a used Selmar Sigmet for $300 without case or mouthpiece. The girl didn't really seem to know anything about them, but she said they had been refurbed. BTW, rental for a year is $90 from Sam Ash. I think we're paying a bit more through the school supplier.

Not to be gross, but do I really have to get a new mouthpiece? I mean, you rent them and the mouthpiece comes with, presumably cleaned. No?


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## pjrose (Jun 13, 2009)

Yes, mouthpieces can be cleaned and presumably are before the horns are rented again.

If renting for a whole year is $90, which looks like about 1/3 of buying a used one, I'd consider renting instead.  If you are renting it, they have to fix it and adjust it, and it will come with a case.  If you buy it you're responsible for the repairs. Even without repairs, it'd take 2-3 years to break even - by that time she may have lost interest.  If she's become really interested after 2-3 years, you may want to get a better one then.

We rented a sax for a year, then when it became clear DD was really into it we bought one, then another, then a third, and all the stuff that went along with them.  Being in various bands was a central part of her life for 4-5 years.  (She was even in the Macy's Parade!)

I don't think I'd buy till after a year or so of renting first, though.


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## Mel (Jun 13, 2009)

If you can rent for $90 for the year, do so.  Wow, that's a low price.  Our rentals are $30 for the first 3 months, then $20 per month, so the school year would be $170.  Around here, they will let you apply a portion of that to the purchase price, but if you stop renting over the summer, you start again with a new contract.

And yes, you can purchase good instruments on eBay, but you need to know what you're looking for.  I purchased DD's clarinet about 18 months ago for $90 - a Vito - but had to put about $300 of work into it last month, for a full refurb.  Going in, I expected to have to do a rehaul, so I factored that cost into my bid.  DD's music teacher at school is a Clarinetist herself, and was impressed with this clarinet, so I know we did well. 

If you buy used, make sure you have a decent case.  A bad case can cause plenty of damage, resulting in more repairs down the road.


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## wackymother (Jun 13, 2009)

I know the $90 seemed like a low price...because I think we're paying at least $150 through our school district's supplier. I'll check my check register and tell you what it cost. It included the book, a hard case, and a teaching CD. 

The low rental prices are why we rented the cello from Sam Ash. The elementary school didn't have any cello players in the orchestra, so middle DD got the cello for free for three years. It was quite a shock paying a rental fee for 7th and 8th and 9th grade! But the rental price was quite good from Sam Ash. It was $260 for the year, including the bow and a soft case. The school district supplier was well into the $300s for a nine-month rental. 

I dunno, I do feel like this kid is going to keep up with the clarinet, and somehow I wouldn't mind having one....


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## wackymother (Jun 13, 2009)

luvsvacation22 said:


> I just bought a Yamaha Flute made in Japan for my daughter. I paid three hundred dollars for an eight hundred dollar flute. I found a reputable music teacher who sells instruments on Ebay.
> 
> Here is his ad  "I am a high school band director that worked 7 summers in a band instrument repair shop specializing in flutes and clarinets, so this instrument has been professionally disassembled, cleaned and polished, adjusted, and play tested to ensure it is ready to play. It plays easily to low C with a light touch. Perfect for a student enrolled in band. Get out from under expensive monthly payments! FREE TUNING/CLEANING ROD AND FREE SHIPPING WITH BUY IT NOW!  (Wait for adjusted invoice to be sent so shipping can be deducted).  100% positive feedback on over 700 transactions - bid/buy with assurance of a worry free purchase "
> 
> ...



Dorene's guy has a nice-looking Yamaha 20. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-Clarinet-YCL20-20-Free-Priority-Shipping-w-BIN_W0QQitemZ170344322409QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a9501569&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Which is recommended by this website.

http://www.clarinetcloset.com/choosingaclarinet.html

Dorene, was everyone happy with the flute you bought from him?


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## luvsvacation22 (Jun 13, 2009)

wackymother said:


> Dorene's guy has a nice-looking Yamaha 20.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-Clarinet-YCL20-20-Free-Priority-Shipping-w-BIN_W0QQitemZ170344322409QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a9501569&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
> 
> ...



Most definitely! We are very happy; my daughter loves it! I would buy from him again! It was just as described and beautiful!

Good luck! 
Dorene


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## wackymother (Jun 14, 2009)

I missed out on Dorene's guy's clarinet--talked to DH about it this morning and someone else had grabbed it. Fooey. But I have all summer...

In the meantime, I thought Alan would enjoy this picture, from an eBay auction.


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## luvsvacation22 (Jun 16, 2009)

Just keep checking his site! Good luck! 

Dorene

I just checked his site and he has another clarinet for sale now! It looks like the same model you were looking at before, this model $179.00.

Either way, when you do find something please let us know what you ended up buying!


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## BSQ (Jun 16, 2009)

wackymother said:


> Not to be gross, but do I really have to get a new mouthpiece? I mean, you rent them and the mouthpiece comes with, presumably cleaned. No?



Yes they _should_ be cleaned when you purchase one, but how well? hmmm who knows.  Also,  everyone's teeth are different.  Your two front teeth do put some wear on the mouth piece.  YMMV based on your teeth.


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## wackymother (Jun 16, 2009)

BSQ said:


> Yes they _should_ be cleaned when you purchase one, but how well? hmmm who knows.  Also,  everyone's teeth are different.  Your two front teeth do put some wear on the mouth piece.  YMMV based on your teeth.



She's a very tough ten-year-old.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 17, 2010)

*Genuine Selman Trombone.*




wackymother said:


> Bad names are...
> Selman
> and anything that sounds like a knockoff of one of the better brands


I saw a _Genuine Selman_ trombone up close & in person in Florida last January at 1 of those Orlando-Kissimmee fake flea markets. 

We were strolling down the main aisle looking for nothing in particular when I spied what I thought might be a trombone case sitting across the aisle from a stand featuring cookware, hardware, & miscellaneous practical items.  

I went over & opened up the case, noticing as I undid the latches that even the carrying case for the instrument seemed shoddy. 

Inside the case, sure enough, there was a truly nasty looking & extremely cruddy trombone.  What a hunk of junk _!_ 

Further inspection revealed the trombone to be a _Genuine Selman_.  The price tag was $50 or so as I recall, which would have been a decent price for a low-end trombone in so-so condition from any of the recognized quality instrument companies. 

The lady running the stand begged me to make an offer on the trombone.  "No, thanks," I said. "Not interested in it enough even to make a lowball offer." 

I (carefully) closed up the fragile-looking trombone case & put it back where it was when I 1st noticed it, then I headed down the aisle to catch up with The Chief Of Staff. 

Twenty minutes or so later, as we came back past the same booth from the opposite direction on our way out, the lady running the stand with the _Genuine Selman_ trombone semi-shouted that she would take $10 for it. 

"Sorry, no," I said.  "Still not interested -- not for $10, not even for $5.  I don't want it, period." 

Before that, the only _Genuine Selman_ horns, trombones, clarinets, saxophones, etc., that I had ever seen were all those eBay specials, & I viewed those only in pictures on the computer display.  

The fake Florida flea market experience confirmed my suspicion that it's better to buy any wrecked Conn, Selmer, Yamaha, Holton, Getzen, etc., than to buy a pristine _Genuine Selman_ -- & a _used_ _Genuine Selman_ is not worth having at any price. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## wackymother (Jun 17, 2010)

I never posted about this? I'm so sorry--thought I did! 

We ended up buying a Yamaha from Dorene's guy, seller ready-to-play on eBay, back in October. It wasn't the bottom-of-the-line one, it was maybe one step up; I think I paid about $240 for it, shipped, because I doozled around so long that DD really needed the clarinet to start with band lessons. 

It seems to be a nice sturdy student model; DD's teacher approved of it. It was kind of stiff and squeaky at first, and then it seemed to get broken in more, so it sounds good now. 

Thanks for everyone's help! DD has signed up to take lessons again next year, so that will be the break-even year and after that we'll be ahead of the game.


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## AwayWeGo (Jun 17, 2010)

*Yamaha Is Dependable.*




wackymother said:


> We ended up buying a Yamaha from Dorene's guy, seller ready-to-play on eBay, back in October.


It amuses me that the same Yamaha company that makes pianos, saxophones, clarinets, flutes, oboes, drums, trombones, euphoniums, tubas, trumpets, horns, & cornets, etc., also makes motorcycles & outboard motors. 

No doubt the power equipment & the musical instruments are made by different different divisions in separate factories. 

All the Yamaha instruments I'm familiar with are dependable & good quality.  

I now have 2 Yamaha horns (YHR-666N via eBay & YHR-321 via Craig's List) & 1 Yamaha trumpet (YTR-232, Craig's List).  They range from OK to outstanding.  I don't think Yamaha makes any bad instruments. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 28, 2010)

*Fitting Use For Genuine Selman Trombone.*




AwayWeGo said:


> I saw a _Genuine Selman_ trombone up close & in person in Florida last January at 1 of those Orlando-Kissimmee fake flea markets.
> 
> We were strolling down the main aisle looking for nothing in particular when I spied what I thought might be a trombone case sitting across the aisle from a stand featuring cookware, hardware, & miscellaneous practical items.
> 
> ...


Click here for what it is (including demo video) -- but for heaven's sake don't try that at home (at least not indoors). 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## jlwquilter (Aug 28, 2010)

Thank you Alan for posting today and bringing this thread to my attention!

DD is taking band this year (kids had a choice between band all year or split year of Phys.Ed and computer lab).

She was just approved for the clarinet so I need to buy/rent one. I am a 'buy" person naturally and after a quick review of rental prices, I won't be paying much more to buy than rent anyway - and it may be cheaper.

My question is: what style/model/?? should I be looking at for a rank beginner? On Yamaha ebay listings there are clarinets listed as 20, 34, 200, 400, etc. Do the other brands (Vito, etc.) use a similar numbering to identify beginner clarinets?

The only info I have - other than a list of a few good brands - is this: use stock mouthpiece and #2 reeds and switch to a B-45 mouthpiece as soon as possible.

Ebay seller ready-to-play doesn't have a clarinet listed right now but I will keep checking.

All help appreciated! I know nothing about this stuff at all.


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 28, 2010)

*Clarinets Are Outstanding -- Wonderful Instuments.*




jlwquilter said:


> All help appreciated! I know nothing about this stuff at all.


I know just enough about clarinets to be dangerous -- well, maybe just a touch more than that, but not lots more.  

My older son plays clarinets & saxophones & really knows his onions about those & you could have confidence in any advice you got from him.  He's on TUG-BBS, but an infrequent participant by contrast with the old man. 

Known good clarinet brands are Leblanc (including their Vito student line), Selmer (including their Bundy student line), Buffet Crampon, Yamaha, Conn, Noblet.  That list is not exhaustive -- it's just off the top of the head of a non-clarinetist who has a clarinetist in the family.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo (Aug 29, 2010)

*Geuine Selman Not So Bad After All?  (Dissenting Opinion.)*




AwayWeGo said:


> The fake Florida flea market experience confirmed my suspicion that it's better to buy any wrecked Conn, Selmer, Yamaha, Holton, Getzen, etc., than to buy a pristine _Genuine Selman_ -- & a _used_ _Genuine Selman_ is not worth having at any price.


My disparaging view of _Genuine Selman_ band instruments notwithstanding, my old friend from army band days, who's also a retired school music teacher as well as a fine player & community band musician, says his _Genuine Selman_ tenor horn is OK --  plays well in tune, has fast valves, etc.  It's a cheap horn all right, he says, but how it plays mostly depends on the player.  

The only _Genuine Selman_ example of any kind that I've seen up close & in person is that hunk of junk trombone I saw at the Florida flea market.  My blanket condemnation is based not just on that, but also on the reported experiences of my music-teacher friends up here who regard _Genuine Selman_ clarinets & trumpets, saxophones, etc., as "instrument-shaped objects" rather than the real thing because _Genuine Selmans_ & the like are difficult to play & next to impossible to repair (they say).  

That situation might well improve in the future as the mainland China manufacturers gain production quality control experience.  Could happen.  After all, many Japanese products today are regarded world-wide as top-quality (cars, cameras, electronics, etc.).  Yet for 20-25 years following the end of WW2, _Made In Japan_ was virtually synonymous with cheap junk.  I even read an internet article by a (British) symphony principal clarinetist relating his highly positive experience with a semi-pricey pro-quality Chinese mainland clarinet made of resin (i.e., not wood).  Who'd a-thunk ? 

Even though I am semi-reassured by my old friend's positive experience with his decent quality _Genuine Selman_ tenor horn, I am not ready to offer a blanket endorsement of the _Genuine Selman_ product line.   For 1 thing, I am convinced that the company picked the brand name -- _Selman_ -- because of how easy the company expected it to be for all the moms & dads out there buying school instruments for Junior & Sis to spring for _Genuine Selman_ while thinking they're buying a brand they've heard of (i.e., Selmer).  That is to say, by me it's a deceptively similar-sounding brand name & that's no accident.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## AwayWeGo (Oct 8, 2010)

*So, What Kind Of Clarinet Is DD Playing Now That School Has Started ?*




jlwquilter said:


> The only info I have - other than a list of a few good brands - is this: use stock mouthpiece and #2 reeds and switch to a B-45 mouthpiece as soon as possible.


Yamaha ? 

Selmer ? 

Leblanc ? 

Buffet Crampon ? 

Noblet ? 

Bundy ? 

Vito ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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