# MMC resale through Marriott Resales Dept.



## KathyPet (Oct 5, 2013)

A long, frustrating and depressing saga.  Signed a contract with MVCI resales dept for them to list my MMC platinum for sale in May.  A couple of weeks later we received a e mail that they had a buyer.  They sent a sales contract which we signed and returned promptly.  Received another E mail the first week of June advising that they had received the signed contract and we should have the I settlement package in about 8 weeks.  When the first week of August passed with no package I called MVCI and spoke to the service rep assigned to handle my re-sale.  She advised that Va law required a Va lawyer to prepare the paperwork and handle the settlement and the paperwork was still with the attorney's office in Williamsburg.  She stated she would call them and ask them to call me with a status update.  Three days go by, no call.  I call again and get the # for the attorney's office and contact name there.  I call contact at atty's office.  She says waiting for estoppel from MVCI but paperwork should go out by end of week.  No paperwork received by Wed of following week.  Contact again promises all is done and paperwork will go out within next two days.   Again nothing.  I called Consumer Advocacy at MVCI Corporate and reach manager of Consumer Advocacy Dept.  She promises quick investigation.  Calls me two days later.  It seems ther are close to 50 settlement files at this attorney's office and close to 40 are way past the time it should have taken to complete.  says she is very surprised that I am the first to contact her.  She is very unhappy with atty's office and with MVCI resale failure to follow up on these delays.  Says upper management is now aware of the issue.  I am in constant contact with her for the next two weeks.  Attorney's office continues to make and break delivery promises for settlement package.  Finally settlement package arrives. We sign and return Overnight express mail.  Customer Advocacy Mgr confirms with Atty's office that our paperwork and purchaser's paperwork Has been received and complete.  Closing date to be 9/13.  As of yesterday closing has not occurred.  Customer Advocacy Manager says "ongoing and continuing problems with settlement attorney".  Marriott Corporate Legal Dept is now seriously involved but meanwhile I have no check!!!!  Wonder what is going on here?   Financial misdoings by atty's office????


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## TheTimeTraveler (Oct 5, 2013)

I would give them a drop dead date to either pay you or cancel the transaction.

The market value is finally beginning to improve and you may be able to get more by selling it on your own, and if Marriott exercises ROFR then Marriott will be paying you more!

Let's hope they get their act together!



.


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## rsackett (Oct 5, 2013)

Kathy,

You and I are in the same boat.  I am also selling a MMC through Marriott started a few days before you and still NOTHING!  I will call Monday?

Ray


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## tschwa2 (Oct 5, 2013)

Just to put it in perspective.  About 13 months before you received your offers, I inquired and at the time Marriott was not repurchasing MMC platinum at all.  I had it listed at $2000 and found a buyer who was willing to pay $1100.  Marriott exercised ROFR and it still took just under 5 months total to get my $1100 from the time I received notice that it was ROFR'ed. 

So if you still manage to get the amount you first quoted of $4860, it is probably higher than you can get on the open market.  And at this point if you withdraw your week and accept something lower you still may be in for a long wait to get any money if Marriott decides to exercise ROFR.


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## KathyPet (Oct 5, 2013)

Ray,  I have sent you a Private Message


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## KathyPet (Oct 5, 2013)

At this point in time my DH wants to cancel the entire sale.  Don't know if that is a possible option considering the unholy mess this is in.

We just received a sales contract yesterday on a piece of land we own in SC.  settlement is to be Nov 3.    30 days to close on a piece of real property and 0ver 4 months to close on a Timeshare??  Give me a break!


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## VacationForever (Oct 5, 2013)

Give you a similar perspective, this time from a buyer's perspective.  I bought 2 resale weeks from Marriott (not MMC) at beginning of June.  Sale and purchase agreement and payment returned on June 12 2013.  I told them I wanted an expedited closing.  First promise was that I would receive closing paperwork end of August for a Sept 15 closing date.  Nothing received, and went back to First American Title who first claimed they (the title company) was backlogged.  The next enquiry came back with "Marriott was backlogged."  Finally received closing paperwork 3rd week of Sept which I immediately signed and got notarized and returned.  Credit card for final amount was charged 2 days later but then silence.  I followed up earlier this week and was told that it was closed on 9/27/13.  I just got off the phone with Marriott this morning because placeholder weeks have not shown up in II (part of the sale agreement) and was told that I will need to call back on Monday and it will take several more weeks.  So I am looking at a minimum of 5 months before I can deposit the weeks into II.  It appears to be standard Marriott practice.  It took 3.5 months for them to want to collect $ from the buyer so I am not surprised you are not getting your money as a seller.  Unbelievable.


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## answeeney (Oct 6, 2013)

I contacted marriott resales via there website no less than five times about three separate properties and never once had the courtesy of a reply (although they may have tried to phone but, if so, failed to leave a message - no use to us as we screen all calls).

They did rather give the game away when last time I visited Marbella beach resort I got a phone message from their sales office (after saying in advance that we didn't want the usual hassle from them) saying that they understood I was interested in buying a week but apparently clueless as to what weeks I had enquired about. By then I had already committed to a resale from elsewhere but even had I not I would not have risen to the bait - my vacation time is too precious. Basically it confirmed to me though that their resales operation is a sham it's main purpose being to generate hard-sell opportunities for the direct sales force. A bit disappointing for an outfit that pretends to represent quality.


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## BocaBoy (Oct 9, 2013)

answeeney said:


> ......it confirmed to me though that their resales operation is a sham it's main purpose being to generate hard-sell opportunities for the direct sales force.



I have bought one unit and sold two through MVCI Resales.  I don't agree at all that it is a sham, although I did find that their communications are rather weak.


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## MALC9990 (Oct 9, 2013)

I would guess that there is a geographical dimension here. The board at my home resort in Son Antem has been negotiating with MVCI to set up a Resales programme for owners. After 3 years there has been no real progress. Yes owners can ask Resales in the USA to list their week(s) but it does not work. So they seek 3rd party options. Personally, I think MVCI get enough weeks to resell through owners defaulting on their MFs. At Son Antem, failing to pay MFs for two years means that the week will be lost and revert back to MVCI to sell again. With this source of supply, it seems that there is no real incentive for MVCI to offer a resale service to owners at Son Antem. Since the other Euroopean resorts also have the same MF default rules, it probably applies to them all.


So why assist owners in Europe to sell their weeks through a Marriott Resales programme which would be in competition with their own direct sales operation which is in effect doing Resales but at full price with no cut going to the owner.


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## maph (Oct 9, 2013)

A couple weeks ago I contacted (by phone) the Resales Department about a unit that was listed on their website & was told that they will no longer sell to a person who doesn't reside in the US.  Canadians & Europeans are no longer welcome.


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## Saintsfanfl (Oct 9, 2013)

maph said:


> A couple weeks ago I contacted (by phone) the Resales Department about a unit that was listed on their website & was told that they will no longer sell to a person who doesn't reside in the US.  Canadians & Europeans are no longer welcome.



It has nothing to do with being "no longer welcome". I don't think they possess the legal authority. Timeshare sales has become a sticky business and I do not believe the resale department holds the proper licenses to do business with someone over the phone or mail that is not located in the US.


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## maph (Oct 9, 2013)

I think this is a very recent change & up until a short time ago I, for example, would have been able to make a resale purchase through them.  I'm sure this is just a business decision and not meant to tweak anyone's nose, but the net result is that if you are not living in the US, then they will not sell to you.


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## MALC9990 (Oct 9, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> It has nothing to do with being "no longer welcome". I don't think they possess the legal authority. Timeshare sales has become a sticky business and I do not believe the resale department holds the proper licenses to do business with someone over the phone or mail that is not located in the US.



So - MVCI now need to set up a European based resale operation or at least stop stringing along the board and owners at Son Antem. At present any owner approaching MVCI to sell their week as a resale is pointed to the resale team in the USA - what a farce.


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## maph (Oct 9, 2013)

You might still be able to sell a unit through them, just not buy one.  It may be worth a phone call to find out.


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## Saintsfanfl (Oct 9, 2013)

maph said:


> You might still be able to sell a unit through them, just not buy one.  It may be worth a phone call to find out.




Highly doubtful. This is right towards the bottom of the resale department website:



> All requests originating in Member States of the European Union will not be carried out by Marriott Vacation Club.


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## answeeney (Oct 9, 2013)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Highly doubtful. This is right towards the bottom of the resale department website:
> 
> All requests originating in Member States of the European Union will not be carried out by Marriott Vacation Club.



That explains a lot. Thanks for drawing my attention to it.


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## MALC9990 (Oct 10, 2013)

answeeney said:


> That explains a lot. Thanks for drawing my attention to it.



Yes it explains a lot to me too. It also tells me that the advisory Board members at Son Antem are wasting their time trying to persuade Marriott Vacation Club Management to establish a Marriott Resales programme for Son Antem Owners. It would perhaps be more productive if they were to look at establishing a programme locally in Europe with one or more Brokers who have a track record in resales.


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## suzannesimon (Oct 10, 2013)

When I bought my MFC timeshares in 2008, I made an inquiry online, not at a presentation.  I worked with  a great low-pressure Marriott rep.  What was interesting is he said they weren't licensed to do business in Virginia.  He actually got out a list to look if it was a allowed in Virginia.  Maybe it had something to do with selling real estate by mail.  I really don't know.  I asked him if we could do it from Maryland and he said he could, so he sent all the Marriott info to my son in Baltimore and I would pick it up.  Everything had to go to my son until after it settled.  I remember thinking it was strange since they had the Williamsburg property.  Meanwhile, my son can't buy wine mail order to Maryland so he has it shipped to me in Virginia.  Mail order timeshares banned in Virginia, but you can get 1 case of wine per month to any  address.  Other than that, the process went smoothly as far as settlement.


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## Fasttr (Oct 10, 2013)

suzannesimon said:


> When I bought my MFC timeshares in 2008, I made an inquiry online, not at a presentation.  I worked with  a great low-pressure Marriott rep.  What was interesting is he said they weren't licensed to do business in Virginia.  He actually got out a list to look if it was a allowed in Virginia.  Maybe it had something to do with selling real estate by mail.  I really don't know.  I asked him if we could do it from Maryland and he said he could, so he sent all the Marriott info to my son in Baltimore and I would pick it up.  Everything had to go to my son until after it settled.  I remember thinking it was strange since they had the Williamsburg property.  Meanwhile, my son can't buy wine mail order to Maryland so he has it shipped to me in Virginia.  Mail order timeshares banned in Virginia, but you can get 1 case of wine per month to any  address.  Other than that, the process went smoothly as far as settlement.



Reading between the lines....perhaps there is correlation between the quantity of wine needed and the quantity of timeshares owned??


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## gottspd (Oct 11, 2013)

I am also selling my MMC week through MVCI and like the OP, it's been less than a smooth process with the settlement attorney.  I did get the documents from them, but there were several typos, which they fixed.  I have sent the signed documents back so we'll see what happens next.  Fingers crossed that I get my check...


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## Steve (Oct 11, 2013)

Like several others here, I am selling my Marriott Manor Club week through MVCI.  I, too, have signed and sent back papers to the attorney and am waiting to close.  It has been several months since Marriott informed me they had a buyer for my week.

There may be a pattern here.  

I hope that all of our sales close soon!  Any updates would be appreciated.

Steve


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## answeeney (Oct 16, 2013)

Dusanka said:


> Why don't you look online at the european resales offices.
> 
> There is an office close to Playa Andaluza....they have very good prices...i bought my 3 bedroom ( lock - off ) there.
> 
> Fab it's called



I think the point here (certainly for me) is that buying direct from Marriott resales comes with the option of exchanging for Marriott reward points and also in some cases the option of enrolling in DC.


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## Foxtrotalphabravo (Oct 26, 2013)

*Resales*

I have worked for Marriott Vacation Club and sold millions of euros of Marriott Vacation Club memberships in Europe. Why would anybody be silly enough to pay around €1000 on average for a maintenance fee to get in most cases 90,000 to 100,000 Marriott Reward points when you can buy them at $625 per 50,000. Buying a resale from any broker if the price is right should make total sense. 

100,000 Marriott Reward Points doesn't even get you 3 nights in a hotel category 6 that would only cost you €250 a night for cash. 

As for the Destination Points, well firstly let me tell you most Europeans think it's a load of rubbish, for what amount you get for trading into them unless you are downgrading apartment size or travelling at the worst time of year you can't even do a full week.

It makes far more sense to buy a resale on the private market, use it at your home resort and exchange it through Interval International and with the 70% or in most cases €10,000 to €15,000 you have saved off the upfront costs if you really want to stay in Marriott hotels use that to buy Marriott Reward Points not your maintenance fee.


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## Foxtrotalphabravo (Oct 26, 2013)

Since the _[Re-seller name deleted]_ office opened in Marbella I hear they have sold more Marriott Vacation Club European memberships in 2013 that the whole European Marriott Sales Team. I'm glad I don't have to compete with Resales anymore as we used to lose around 40% of the sales we did to Resales as most intelligent people go on the internet and see the light and don't fall the the sales waffle we were trained to say about Resales. The fact that _[Re-seller name deleted]_ have sales offices where people can visit near the European Resorts and get told the truth about Resales from people who actually worked successfully for many years for Marriott Vacation Club clearly reassures potential new members of the benefits as well as shows they are not just another faceless internet timeshare Resales company that might be real or might be a rip off.

_[Please note TUG Posting Rules prohibit advertising.  <--- SueDonJ]_


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## answeeney (Oct 26, 2013)

Foxtrotalphabravo said:


> I have worked for Marriott Vacation Club and sold millions of euros of Marriott Vacation Club memberships in Europe. Why would anybody be silly enough to pay around €1000 on average for a maintenance fee to get in most cases 90,000 to 100,000 Marriott Reward points when you can buy them at $625 per 50,000. Buying a resale from any broker if the price is right should make total sense.
> 
> 100,000 Marriott Reward Points doesn't even get you 3 nights in a hotel category 6 that would only cost you €250 a night for cash.
> 
> ...



You make some valid points but miss the main one - that Europeans are apparently denied an option that is available to US residents. I suspect most on TUG are well aware of the relative merits of resale and direct purchase - I have bought via both means.

You deride the option of exchanging for MRPs and yet compare it with using member fees to purchase points. The two situations are not analogous. Certainly exchanging for MRPs is a last resort but if you really have no use for your week and have no inclination to advertise it for rent then it is a useful option to have as you can salvage some permanent value for an otherwise worthless week.

As for destination points, I have to disagree with 'most Europeans'. For me the scheme has worked well. There are few places that I would want to commit to going to every year and DC provides an extra option.

That said, if Marriott resales had been prepared to discuss a resale with me then I would have weighed up the terms offered against the alternatives and might well have chosen to buy elsewhere (which I did). It would have been nice to have had the choice.


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## Foxtrotalphabravo (Oct 27, 2013)

*Destination Points*

From my experience of personally speaking to over 30 existing Marriott Vacation Club European Owners every week for the last 4 years then the idea of Destination Points far outshines the reality of them. I haven been trained by Marriott Vacation Club on how to promote them and was there for the launch of the Destination Points overlay for European Owners in June 2012. We were even told not to go into Destination Points with new clients on previews as it just complicates the presentation and if they look in the book to see what 2400 destination points gets them (which is the amount you get for a 2 bed Gold Playa Andaluza) you will find you could only have 4 or 5 nights if you went to other resorts in medium season.

I agree if you have lots of weeks and struggle to use them all then turning them into points to do something else can make sense, IF the inventory is available. However when you compare the price you pay to get the points needed compared to what you could rent it for its no sense whatsoever. Just go on Colette holidays for the same explorer packages or ICE for the same cruises and you will find like for like its cheaper paying cash.

Destination Points in European Resorts will only work if the majority of existing owners enrol and convert to points when not using their home base. The fact Marriott Vacation Club only have 4 European Resorts and the amount of points to do a week at a decent time of year is more than what you get for trading in to them make good reading. Then to top it off I would guess at least 100 Resales happen every week in Europe and the new owner gets excluded from Destination Points option for trading.  So unless Marriott Vacation club allow new owners of resale weeks to participate in Destination Points it will never work properly and you will still have ithe same availability issues.

This is from both an owners (myself) opinion as well as somebody who speaks to European Owners on a daily basis.

Going back to Marriott Rewards Points the amount you pay in maintenance fee for the points you get in return makes no financial sense. Have you ever tried to use a travel package with flights and hotels. Unless you want to go to places at the least popular times of year good luck trying to book the flights! I have never not been able to rent any of my weeks out and cover the maintenance fee however I would always use a rental company not Marriott.


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## MALC9990 (Oct 27, 2013)

Foxtrotalphabravo said:


> From my experience of personally speaking to over 30 existing Marriott Vacation Club European Owners every week for the last 4 years then the idea of Destination Points far outshines the reality of them. I haven been trained by Marriott Vacation Club on how to promote them and was there for the launch of the Destination Points overlay for European Owners in June 2012. We were even told not to go into Destination Points with new clients on previews as it just complicates the presentation and if they look in the book to see what 2400 destination points gets them (which is the amount you get for a 2 bed Gold Playa Andaluza) you will find you could only have 4 or 5 nights if you went to other resorts in medium season.
> 
> I agree if you have lots of weeks and struggle to use them all then turning them into points to do something else can make sense, IF the inventory is available. However when you compare the price you pay to get the points needed compared to what you could rent it for its no sense whatsoever. Just go on Colette holidays for the same explorer packages or ICE for the same cruises and you will find like for like its cheaper paying cash.
> 
> ...



Well as an owner in Europe who did enroll all his weeks on day one I will disagree with some of what you say. Certainly if you only own a week or two then enrolling does not make sense but for me it did. My 5 weeks in Europe took me straight to premier plus status and this year I traded 3 weeks for DC points. Those points got me 2 nights at MMC to add on the end of an II EXCHANGE, 6 nights at Crystal Shores and 13 nights at Frenchman's Cove. Total 21 nights in exchange for my 3 weeks and 600 DC points left over banked into 2014.

I actually think that owners will start to see the benefit of using DC points rather than II for exchanges into the USA and Caribbean but it will take time and reduced II inventory for them to see the light. I have also exchanged into one of my Home resorts in Europe using DC points for a different season. That was easy and there was nothing available in II.

As for MR points - I do rarely exchange for them and use them for a package but never tie the FF miles to the hotel reservation - keeping them separate for use another day is the flexible way to go.


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## bazzap (Oct 27, 2013)

Foxtrotalphabravo said:


> From my experience of personally speaking to over 30 existing Marriott Vacation Club European Owners every week for the last 4 years then the idea of Destination Points far outshines the reality of them. I haven been trained by Marriott Vacation Club on how to promote them and was there for the launch of the Destination Points overlay for European Owners in June 2012. We were even told not to go into Destination Points with new clients on previews as it just complicates the presentation and if they look in the book to see what 2400 destination points gets them (which is the amount you get for a 2 bed Gold Playa Andaluza) you will find you could only have 4 or 5 nights if you went to other resorts in medium season.
> 
> I agree if you have lots of weeks and struggle to use them all then turning them into points to do something else can make sense, IF the inventory is available. However when you compare the price you pay to get the points needed compared to what you could rent it for its no sense whatsoever. Just go on Colette holidays for the same explorer packages or ICE for the same cruises and you will find like for like its cheaper paying cash.
> 
> ...


I will add my thoughts, as another Marriott Vacation Club European  Owner, to those of Malcolm as I have also had good results from the DC  Points Programme (and I was very sceptical initially) 
For sure, if  you wanted to use points to book like for like in Europe you would  suffer from the skim, but why would you want to consider this anyway?  
As  an example, we get 3375 Points for our Silver 3 bed Playa Andaluza week  and this has got us really good weeks in Gold season in a 2 bed in the  Caribbean with Points to spare confirmed immediately. 
We have also got European resorts, albeit after Waitlisting.
Is it perfect - no.
Am I happy about the skim - no.
Has it given me an additional option and flexibility to get a choice of Resort / Season / Villa size - yes definitely. 
Do I like being able to get immediate confirmation (sometimes) compared to my experience with II - you bet.  
Have I saved money on II fees for lock offs, exchanges...etc - yes many £hundreds already.
So  I think it would be more interesting to know how many Marriott Vacation  Club European Owners who have enrolled and actually used the DC Points  Programme value the reality.


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## thinze3 (Oct 28, 2013)

For the second time on the last 12 months, Marriott has sent me an email about listing my Waiohai unit with them.  I've been on the waiting list for quite a long time.  The sell price last year and this year is the same, so the net offer was the same.

I responded to their email stating that I was indeed interested in selling, but that I would require a "net" amount about $2300 more than what they offered.  I was surprised when I actrually got a response saying that they would leave me on the list and get back to me when they could meet my "net figure".


_



			Good Morning! We have re-registered your interest in selling on the waitlist. Once Marriott is able to meet your desired net figure, we will contact you.

Best regards,
		
Click to expand...

_


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## AndyB (Oct 29, 2013)

*Destination Points*



bazzap said:


> I will add my thoughts, as another Marriott Vacation Club European  Owner, to those of Malcolm as I have also had good results from the DC  Points Programme (and I was very sceptical initially)
> For sure, if  you wanted to use points to book like for like in Europe you would  suffer from the skim, but why would you want to consider this anyway?
> As  an example, we get 3375 Points for our Silver 3 bed Playa Andaluza week  and this has got us really good weeks in Gold season in a 2 bed in the  Caribbean with Points to spare confirmed immediately.
> We have also got European resorts, albeit after Waitlisting.
> ...



3 bed Silvers at Playa Andaluza only give 2475 destination points so you must own a Sea Front.

Saving hundreds on II fees, lock off fee´s loses me a little as the option of enrollment into Destination Points has only been available since June 2012 and you also have to pay club dues which equates to more or less the same each year as interval membership and one exchange. You also still have to pay for any exchanges outside the 52 Marriott Resorts so unless you are traveling outside of Europe other than Spain or the Disneyland Paris resort then the choice of 2800 II resorts is far more appealing to me.

As the two other posters Malcom & Barry have multiple weeks of 4 or more I can understand the benefit of having the option and agree with them. For owners with one or two weeks I dont see the benefit especially when you look at how many destination points it takes to do anything like for like and you find you generally always need more than you get.


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## bazzap (Oct 29, 2013)

Yes, AndyB you are correct I do have a sea front at Playa Andaluza. 
I didn't realise it gave so many extra DC points though - lucky me.
I agree also that the Programme is difficult to justify financially unless you are a multi week owner / lock off owner / exclusive or mostly MVC stayer..., especially since the initial enrolment cost significantly increased.


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## MALC9990 (Oct 29, 2013)

AndyB said:


> 3 bed Silvers at Playa Andaluza only give 2475 destination points so you must own a Sea Front.
> 
> Saving hundreds on II fees, lock off fee´s loses me a little as the option of enrollment into Destination Points has only been available since June 2012 and you also have to pay club dues which equates to more or less the same each year as interval membership and one exchange. You also still have to pay for any exchanges outside the 52 Marriott Resorts so unless you are traveling outside of Europe other than Spain or the Disneyland Paris resort then the choice of 2800 II resorts is far more appealing to me.
> 
> As the two other posters Malcom & Barry have multiple weeks of 4 or more I can understand the benefit of having the option and agree with them. For owners with one or two weeks I dont see the benefit especially when you look at how many destination points it takes to do anything like for like and you find you generally always need more than you get.



You are right the cutoff for me would be 3 weeks but ideally you need enough weeks to get points to take you to Premier Plus status. That gives great 13 month in advance reservation options.


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