# When do you plan to retire and first trip



## Fredflintstone (Oct 28, 2019)

Almost everyone I know who has retired go on their dream trip shortly afterwards.

In my case, I do plan to retire by 62. It could be later or earlier depending on how I feel about working. Currently, I love what I do but also want to ensure I get in some healthy retirement years to travel too. I have had some friends that retire late and then get sick and die shortly after. I really don’t want that to be me. I know...not my choice.

My first trip? Well, it’s not really the first trip there but it’s where I want to spend the winters. In Canada, the winters can wear you down along with the shorter daylight hours. When I was a kid, it didn’t bother me....not anymore. I think what has sustained me to keep surviving the winters here is that I go to the Sunny States often. Without that, I think I would be a basket case.

So, I plan to buy a condo in Puerto Vallarta in Old Town and then stay there for 4 months or more per year. Why Puerto Vallarta? The people are wonderful and THE COST OF LIVING is very affordable. Also, health care is affordable. Not to mention, I can get a direct flight there from where I live so I can see my kids easily and they can visit easily too.

My first pick frankly is Hawaii. I love the place but refuse to pay the crazy prices. The cost of living is just nuts. I know, I can afford it but I was raised very poor and I think the stinginess from childhood never left me. I can’t get the cost conscience out of my being.

So, 

1. When do you plan to retire if all goes to plan?
2. Where will be your first trip? Is it a dream vacation or just a place you love? Do you plan to live there one day? If you do, why?

Here’s the Melacon in PV.









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## bluehende (Oct 28, 2019)

12 yrs ago at 51 and We went to Boston a month later.  I was dealing with a mother at the end of her life so the first real trip was skiing at MRG about 1month after she passed.


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## Passepartout (Oct 28, 2019)

I retired at 62- 10 years ago, but have been traveling since I was a teen. The DW did too. Our parents must've had itchy feet and passed them off to us.  We utilize the several TS weeks and points we have, and only now are some seemingly more trouble than they are worth. We cruise 2-3 times a year and have a second home. I can't begin to count how many 'Trips-of-a-Lifetime' we've taken. Not usually luxurious, because our parents, all were 'children of the Depression', but there was always money to travel. The DW does what you do for work, and finds it rewarding, so she has cut back on office commitments to allow for the travel. It works for us, and probably will for you too.

I can't fault your choice of Puerto Vallarta. Nice place. I similarly 'adopted' Mazatlan about 40 years ago, and most winters spend some time there. We don't own there, but have some favorite haunts.

Enjoy your retirement. Stay active and keep your brain engaged and you will.

Jim


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## Carta (Oct 28, 2019)

I retired 16 years ago at 53 yo..Quite young, but couldn't refuse offer.....We considered becoming "snow birds" in Florida..But realized we wouldn't be able to vacation several times per year in different areas; which we love.. (we're not rich)
But when we travel, it's gotta be hot, sunny and on beach..

Whatever you choose will be fantastic I'm sure ....Good Luck


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## x3 skier (Oct 28, 2019)

Retired on a 15 Jan day.  Three days later, I was in Steamboat Springs with a season ski pass, moved into a rented place to live and was skiing on the mountain.  Eventually bought three time shares that I used for 12 weeks every year.

Wash, rinse, repeat annually and the 23rd time coming up in January 2020.

Go for it, my favorite warm weather place is PV. I usually head there for a week after the ski season ends. 

Cheers


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## Luanne (Oct 28, 2019)

We retired in 2012.  No "dream" trip, but we do travel more, and for longer periods, than we did before we were retired.


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## DaveNV (Oct 28, 2019)

If it goes as planned, I'll retire 60 days from today. (This may be delayed until the first few months of next year, but for sure by the end of March.)  I have a couple of short trips planned (Holiday Weekend in Las Vegas, Valentines weekend in Vancouver, BC.)  The first "official" trip as a retiree will be three weeks in Hawaii next Summer.  I am SO ready!

Dave


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## elaine (Oct 28, 2019)

No big trips for DH who retired at 60, but still fills in for others at small business 5 days a month. Next year, planning a European cruise, then meeting friends in Italy for 10 days. We enjoy Europe. It's in our comfort zone and the countries are so varied that we can mix it up.
Winter 2021, I hope to cobble together 4 weeks of various Carib/S. Fl timeshares. We have a PT retirement home with endless renovation projects to keep him busy for at least 5+ years!


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## bogey21 (Oct 28, 2019)

Retired at 65 and traveled extensively for about 10 years mostly using the 6 TS Weeks I owned.  A couple of TIA Events (mini strokes) resulted in me curtailing travel around age 75.  I think I had a good run and the TS Weeks are long gone...

George


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## VacationForever (Oct 28, 2019)

When we retired, me at 53, the first thing we did was get on a weeklong cruise to Alaska.  Up to that point we were tied to our business which required reliable internet and be contactable at all times and as well as no more than 3 hours of timezone away.

After the Alaska cruise, we took transatlantic cruises, Europe and Southeast Asia land tours and cruises.

Three years later we are back to mainly timesharing in North America resorts.  We also rejoined the country club here and we are both playing lots of golf.

Life is good.


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## pedro47 (Oct 28, 2019)

I retired from a 8:15 - 5pm job on paper ( more liked working 7:00AM to 6pm) Eighteen (18) years ago and our first trip was a Trans Atlantic cruise from Fort Lauderdale to Southampton, England on the Celebrity Century Cruise ship.


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## artringwald (Oct 28, 2019)

I retired on 2/29/2008, and next February 29th, I'll be celebrating my 3rd anniversary. I took the last week off, so we would be in Hawaii on the 29th. I invited all my friends and coworkers to celebrate my retirement, and even offered to buy free drinks, but nobody except DW showed up for the party at the Royal Hawaiian's Mai Tai Bar.


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## geist1223 (Oct 28, 2019)

We retired at 58.75. That was about 7 years ago. Our first trip was a month in San Jose del Cabo. Our 1 to 2 week trips have become 3 weeks to a month about twice a year with a bunch of 1 week trips scattered during the year. No cruising for us. Patti gets sea sick on a Dock. About 21 months ago we spent 4 weeks in New Zealand and Australia (Rotorua, Pahia in Bay of Islands, Hobart Tasmania, and Sydney). This February we are going back to Australia (Hobart for 2 weeks and Melbourne for 1 week). Next September we are spending 3 weeks on Kaua'i (2 weeks in Poipu and 1 week in Kapa'a).


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## PamMo (Oct 28, 2019)

We weren't sure how we would "take" to retirement, so we planned travel from Day One so we wouldn't have second thoughts about, "Was it the right decision to retire early?" Like others in this thread, we love Puerto Vallarta, so headed down there for awhile, then on to Sedona to look for a home (didn't find it), then off to Vietnam for a couple of months. We haven't looked back. There is always a new place we want to explore, or a favorite spot we want to revisit and share with family and friends.

I have a brother who died in his early fifties. He and his wife had a wonderful retirement plan, that never happened. I count my blessings EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.


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## Fredflintstone (Oct 28, 2019)

All these posts are awesome. All of you went to the next chapter in life with grace and style. Thank you for sharing.

Funny, I am 55 now and really have changed my thoughts. I used to be all career, now I’m all family. I used to be all about acquiring stuff, now I don’t care about that. Heck, I used to be terrified of death. Now I see it as a progression of life. I wonder if my changing thoughts are just natural aging. I am unsure.

I look forward to 62 or sooner. Yup, maybe be a copycat and celebrate in some bar in Hawaii.

Aren’t memories priceless?


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## davemy (Oct 28, 2019)

I am going to be 56 in January. My goal is 62.  Haven't thought about our first trip but now I'm gunna!


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## geist1223 (Oct 28, 2019)

Unfortunately we have pets. This cuts into long term trips because the $25 per day for our House/Per Sitter cuts into travel funds. We were down to 1 old cat but then 18 months ago we made the mistake of visiting the Willamette Humane Society. Patti brought home a cat and I brought home Felix (a large GSP). Felix is a pure joy and the first pet I have actually missed when we travel. Almost every day we go for a 1.5 mile walk in a dog park that has open fields, high grass, and trails in the woods.


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## rapmarks (Oct 28, 2019)

I retired at 55.  We had five timeshare weeks planned in the Carolinas that fall, but hurricane warnings cut it to four.   then we went on a five month trip, combo of time shares and rentals to Arkansas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. When we returned home we spent two weeks in Hawaii and then went to Wisconsin Dells for about four months.  Spent a month in Missouri and Arkansas in timeshares then did three months in Arizona and California.  Back to Illinois and then Wisconsin Dells again. Left in September, and spent 12 weeks New Orleans, Biloxi, and Florida.  Then two more long trips to Florida where we finally settled.  Then our timeshare trips were mostly on the way up and back between Florida and Wisconsin, u til we started flying back and forth.  Now we don’t travel much, my biggest regret.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 28, 2019)

I've been retired for over a year (I am 63), but hubby(65) doesn't retire until 12/31. We never looked at retirement as the time to take a trip(s). We took trips as we lived our lives all along. Sure- I have a short list of places we have not been yet that we might like to visit (like Italy), but they are on the back burner for now.

We did go to Cape Cod for a week through an exchange BEFORE my last week of work. Hubby will be on "vacation" for XMAS week which will technically be his last week employed, but we will just be spending a few days in our future home state to be with our son, and it is possible we could be closing on our new home shortly thereafter.

We look at retirement as simply not working for an employer and no longer receiving a paycheck.

For retirement we are focusing on the new area where we will be living, downsizing, simplicity, and the lifestyle we want. We are concerned about the long winters where we are headed, though we have weathered them (pardon the pun) all our lives here in NY. It is, however, a place we have vacationed for years (and been to in all seasons) and closer to another state that we have vacationed in as well. We have timeshares in both places. Closer to drive to, which is nice as we get older, and we could exchange any of the three weeks to go elsewhere if we want.

This all said, my first year of retirement has been almost nothing but work (though we did have a nice trip to Utah this past Sept. - which was almost exactly a year after my retirement) and going into the New Year there will be more work for me and my husband to attain what we want. Once we move we do not anticipate any big trips for at least two years as we settle into our new home (which will still need a bit of work). We want to get to know our neighbors, participate in activities, pursue our hobbies, enjoy the area around us, etc.

In other words our priority is getting back into living in our own home again and starting the next phase of our lives so we can eventually really feel retired. We need to do this work now while we still can because we ain't getting any younger. Then we maybe will think about a bucket list type trip again. Or maybe not. Who knows?


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## PamMo (Oct 28, 2019)

rapmarks said:


> ... Now we don’t travel much, my biggest regret.



But, wow, Rapmarks, it sounds like you had great adventures!


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## Fredflintstone (Oct 28, 2019)

mpumilia said:


> I've been retired for over a year (I am 63), but hubby(65) doesn't retire until 12/31. We never looked at retirement as the time to take a trip(s). We took trips as we lived our lives all along. Sure- I have a short list of places we have not been yet that we might like to visit (like Italy), but it is on the back burner for now.
> 
> We did go to Cape Cod for a week through an exchange BEFORE my last week of work. Hubby will be on "vacation" for XMAS week which will technically be his last week employed, but we will just be spending a few days in our future home state to be with our son, and it is possible we could be closing on our new home shortly thereafter.
> 
> ...



Knowing a bit of your past from your posts, you were kind of pushed into retirement because of workplace challenges.

Everything you are planning is a Awesome as well. I am sure the next chapter will go well for you.

I have come to learn a simple life is a good thing. I made mine complicated with career at all costs and regretted that when my parents passed away as well as other loved ones. It was then that I realized I was chasing the wrong dream. The money I made didn’t matter as much anymore but the freedom to live how I want did.

Vacationing to me used to be trying to maintain my sanity and recharge for the next work challenges. I used to stay at 5 star resorts. Now, I cherish the simplicity of being in a shack on the beach, grilling fish on the campfire, watching the stars glisten in the sky and have wonderful conversations with friends and family. One can vacation simply and have the best memories ever.

I think we are brain washed to work harder, rat race up, make more money and buy stuff....as I get older my wisdom finally came to the fore and all that matters is the people and environment we cherish.

Saying that, your simple life thinking will produce a wonderful life. You don’t need to be rich to do that.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 28, 2019)

I am in my mid - late 50s and my DH just turned 60. What is retirement? Not sure when we will retire. It looks like we will slow down the pace but keep our fingers in the pie. We both work although I have been curtailing projects at my business and working part-time in a new encore career which doesn't pay as well but has intrinsic rewards. After the kids graduate from college perhaps we will retire - or not.  I would like flexibility to travel more. My job now has flexibility, his doesn't.


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## amycurl (Oct 28, 2019)

Y'all are *adorable.* I'm a GenXer, and, like most of my generation, expect to work until I am dead.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Oct 28, 2019)

Target date is Dec 15th, 2020. First trip will be to Big Island for 4 weeks. Booking soon . . .


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## Icc5 (Oct 28, 2019)

Retired at 62 in 2013 but had to wait for my wife to retire 2 years later.  She's 5 years younger and wanted to see how my retirement went.  We've traveled throughout the USA,Canada, and Mexico for the past 30 years.  We saved Europe until 2 years ago.  We also have taken about 15 cruises.
Europe has always been her dream vacation so we have several more trips planned for different parts of Europe.
I love to travel but always like coming back home.  We both love the area we live in and so far we have been lucky enough to have our son still able to afford to live in the area.  I guess our next two trips we'd both really enjoy is a cruise with our granddaughter and taking her to Hawaii.  We've taken both our kids there several times.
Bart


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 28, 2019)

Fredflintstone said:


> ........... I know, I can afford it but I was raised very poor and I think the stinginess from childhood never left me. I can’t get the cost conscience out of my being......
> 
> Here’s the Melacon in PV.
> 
> ...



Frugal -

My wife is 3rd generation Canadian of  partly Scottish background .
Her grandmother came to Canada at 16 by herself , about 1910 -from Scotland .
She brought lots of those frugal genes with her.

Good picture of the malecon
PV is top of our list of repeat winter vacations .


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## pianodinosaur (Oct 28, 2019)

I plan to retire in about 6-7 weeks.  We have four trips planned already.  In January 2020 we will spend a week at The Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch in San Antonio.  In May 2020 we will spend a week at Marriott’s a Ocean Point at Palm Beach Shores.  In April 2021 we will spend a week at The Trapp Family Guest Lodges in Vermont.  We will fly out to Rome, Italy, in August 2020 for a five day stay at the Rome Cavalieri followed by a nine day Royal Caribbean Greek Island Cruise paid with Hilton Honors points and HGVC points.  This will be our dream vacation.  We could not do such a thing with me working.


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## VacationForever (Oct 28, 2019)

We did buy our retirement home out of state 2.5 years before we retired.  We moved and sold our home in California after we retired. We love our retirement home and city and feel like we are in paradise each day.


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## Krteczech (Oct 28, 2019)

We retired exactly two years ago, both at 66. Put house in MN on market in September, loaded Budget truck with few necessities and arrived to out second home in CO mountains on Halloween 2017. No time to rest since we moved. Three trips to CA and UT National Parks, one transatlantic cruise followed by two months in Europe and Morocco.  Florida and Minnesota short visits,  several week long TS stays in CO, five weeks skiing using TS and ski condo. We are getting ready to take off for 23 days Panama Canal cruise next Sunday. Hiking in RMNP regularly and watching wildlife from our balcony is therapeutic. Retirement as I envisioned it... hope it will last for many years.
Renovations on our house don’t progress at fast as we planned, but there is really not much time we spend at home anyway.
How could I forget to mention our 12 day trip to Taiwan exactly one year ago?


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## turkel (Oct 29, 2019)

We will retire Nov 2020 at 54 for me and 53 for spouse. We then will happily move back home to SoCal. Since we have deferred our 5 weeks of timeshare a year to just 1 week for 2 years we will have a glut of weeks to use. Since we will have 8 weeks expiring by Nov 2021 the current plan is 4 weeks on 2 islands ( Maui and Kauai ) in March/April 2021 and 4 weeks in St. Martin in July 2021. We have waited to go to Europe till retirement. Traveling is the goal and we hope to see many new places. 

We like exploring new areas on our own via car, DH can drive anywhere but won’t in Mexico so Mexico is not on our list of places to go. Glad I enjoyed Mexico earlier. We love St Martin but definitely don’t return each year. We will repeat places we enjoyed but at least 3 years apart. Too many places we haven’t been.

I got the travel bug from dear Dad who passed away at 58. Life is too short to not explore the world while you can in my book.


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## klpca (Oct 29, 2019)

Wow - a lot of young retirees! I'm 58 and still working but only part time. My husband is 61 and plans on working at least until 63.5 to be assured that between work/cobra he will have access to health care despite his pre-existing conditions. But we recently started really talking about it and we may just keep on working as long as we can take about 4 weeks of vacation per year. The money is good so why not? We have been traveling a lot for about the last 10 years and have crossed a lot of places off of our bucket list and have started to not enjoy it quite as much as we used to, sad to say. Both of us like our jobs (not love - I wish!) but I enjoy the structure that it provides. No grandchildren yet, and it looks like maybe never, so we're not sure what we would do anyway. I know that when I stop getting paid to work I will just shift to volunteering.

We just got back from France and the trip (husbands bucket list) wore me out. We had no down days for two solid weeks, and on a few days in Paris we walked about 7 miles per day, and a minimum of 3 miles per day on the others. I'm not out of shape at all and it still kicked my butt! The bottom of my feet are still sore from the cobblestones and because we were up for 24 hours on our return day, I am still tired and my sleep schedule is messed up. So for now, Europe is off of the list for future trips. We're going to try staying within one time zone when traveling for the next year or two, just to ease up a bit. So I am thinking that our next trip to Europe will be post retirement.


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## slip (Oct 29, 2019)

I plan on retiring at 62 so give and a half more years. But if things go well I may go at 60 when my wife did. She retired this year at 60. No trips planned, we'll probably just head over to our condo in Molokai. 

I'm surprised also by how many here have retired in their low to mid fifties. I'd be very happy at 60.


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## easyrider (Oct 29, 2019)

Been more or less retired since I was 50. Way more retired at 57. Really like Mexico and Hawaii in our winter months. We fall into the snowbird category. Even though we have been going to Hawaii and Mexico for decades it was about 20 years ago that we started timesharing. Our first trip after I realized I was actually retired was Nuevo Vallarta with a group of friends and family. 

We know what we like so I think Europe , Asia and Africa are not on our lists. Neither are the beautiful deserts. We like warm weather,palm trees and beaches next to the Pacific Ocean. If I have a " thing ", it is staying at resorts on the ocean. These next couple of weeks my view is the Pacific Ocean through fluttering palm trees and flowers. This morning I had coffee with a dove on the other side of the deck table. I have to be careful because I could get used to this, lol.

Bill


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## jackio (Oct 29, 2019)

I will retire in June 2021 at age 62. Looking forward to an Alaskan cruise and then getting out of cold winters. Nor being tied to the school schedule anymore will make traveling much easier and way less expensive.


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## VacationForever (Oct 29, 2019)

I never thought I would retire at 53 as I loved working and wanted to work for another 9 years until I am 62.  My husband who is a little older than me was tired and wanted to retire many years before.  Our compromise was to sell the business so that he could retire and for me to take a year off to see if I could adjust to not working.  In the first 18 months, there were times when I thought of going back to the work force.  Now I am "heck no, I am not going back to work".


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 29, 2019)

Similar to @klpca we are not retired but started traveling a lot in the past 5 years. We still have places to visit on the bucket list but because we are able to fly to NYC, Asia and Europe for business frequently, we often mix business with pleasure because it's nice to have the airfare for one spouse and some of the hotels covered by someone else so we can add a week of vacation.


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## Luanne (Oct 29, 2019)

Just to add to my "story".  We retired when I was 62 and dh 67.  He retired and we moved from California to New Mexico the next day.  That was November 2012.  I worked through the end of the year.  Dh's idea was that we would both need to get part time jobs in order to stay busy.  We haven't worked a day since retiring and moving.  Too much to do.  We love where we live now, there is alot to do and see just in our area.  We plan to stay home during the summer because that is when a lot of the activity is.  The last few years we have been going to Maui in March for two weeks and then NYC and another city for two weeks in the Fall.  We usually manage at least one other trip out of state. This year it was Carmel, CA, next year we're planning to go to Seattle.


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## controller1 (Oct 29, 2019)

I retired seven years ago when I was 55.75.  Had planned on retiring at 58 but circumstances caused me to pull the trigger earlier. I haven't looked back and I don't regret it.  My advice is retire as soon as you can afford it!  I see too many people retire with great plans but either die or become disabled prior to achieving any of their retirement plans.  We travel for a week or more every other month through September (during the fall we have college football).  In 2020 we have scheduled a 23-day South American cruise, four weeks in Maui (two trips) and 10 days in Colorado.


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## turkel (Oct 29, 2019)

I think health insurance is a large obstacle for most people who desire to retire early. Although I have saved diligently since starting my career at 26 it is my current husbands pension and retire healthcare that is enabling us to retire next year. DH could have gone at 50 but loves his job. I pester him incessantly about retiring, 2020 is the date whether I like it or not.

I have to admit my fathers early death and his family history have made me acutely aware that retiring early was really important to me.

We plan on long trips to Europe so no running around non stop. We have even talked about living abroad for 6 months to a year and seeing that side of the world at our own pace.  My mother went to Europe 2 years ago at 76. She said never again. The pace was too much for her and she was aghasted long after.


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## Passepartout (Oct 29, 2019)

turkel said:


> We plan on long trips to Europe so no running around non stop. We have even talked about living abroad for 6 months to a year and seeing that side of the world at our own pace.  My mother went to Europe 2 years ago at 76. She said never again. The pace was too much for her and she was aghasted long after.


I agree that in Europe, one MUST pace themselves. When we started going, my DW would research to the n'th degree what to see and museum hours and how to avoid lines, etc. etc. She honestly layed it out with a clipboard full of notes and maps and schedules and brochures. I carried a video camera and tried to capture it 'for the future when we were old and couldn't travel anymore'. After a few of these trips, I said ENOUGH! I was tired of seeing the sights through a viewfinder, and running willy-nilly to make it to the next site. We would come home exhausted and sick as often as not.

So now, we still go on extended trips to faraway places a couple of times a year, but no clipboard. And no video camera. And we build in some relax, enjoy the place and bond with the local culture time. Learn some of the language. Shop the local market- not so much to buy stuff, but to rub shoulders with local people. Eat what they eat, drink what and where they drink.

Funny thing, slow down and see more. Travel is so much more than seeing one more museum or ancient church.

Off shortly to a liesurely jaunt through Japan, Taiwan and China. we have carved out some temple and garden visits, but it's mostly a cultural exchange.

Jim


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## Sugarcubesea (Oct 29, 2019)

I’m retiring at 65, basically because of medical insurance.  It will eat up too much of my 401K if I go out sooner. 

I’m going back to Maui for 3 weeks.  Then I will be in my new retirement home of Florida


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## VacationForever (Oct 29, 2019)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I’m retiring at 65, basically because of medical insurance.  It will eat up too much of my 401K if I go out sooner.
> 
> I’m going back to Maui for 3 weeks.  Then I will be in my new retirement home of Florida


Have you bought your retirement home in Fl?  If so, congrats!


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## isisdave (Oct 29, 2019)

We retired in early 2015 at 66-ish [delayed entirely by cost of health insurance], and ran away.  https://seniorgapyear.wordpress.com/  We're currently on a 2-week drive around New Zealand after cruising here. There'll be pics on the blog in about three weeks.

We still have a house, but its days are numbered.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 29, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> I agree that in Europe, one MUST pace themselves. When we started going, my DW would research to the n'th degree what to see and museum hours and how to avoid lines, etc. etc. She honestly layed it out with a clipboard full of notes and maps and schedules and brochures. I carried a video camera and tried to capture it 'for the future when we were old and couldn't travel anymore'. After a few of these trips, I said ENOUGH! I was tired of seeing the sights through a viewfinder, and running willy-nilly to make it to the next site. We would come home exhausted and sick as often as not.
> 
> So now, we still go on extended trips to faraway places a couple of times a year, but no clipboard. And no video camera. And we build in some relax, enjoy the place and bond with the local culture time. Learn some of the language. Shop the local market- not so much to buy stuff, but to rub shoulders with local people. Eat what they eat, drink what and where they drink.
> 
> ...




I so agree. People think I am crazy when I say if we ever get to Italy we are staying in one place for a week or two and traveling out from there as a base. Maybe it will be Tuscany or Cinque Terre- not sure. I hate crowds and lines and big cities. When we went to Scotland for the first and only time that is what we did also.

And we do the USA states  that way also.

I am into the somewhat slow travel. I like to get to know a place (as much as you can in a week or two). Sure I would love to see everything. But- you cannot see a whole country in a short amount of time and I don't want to anyway. I want to feel like I am on vacation because I am. I don't want to come home exhausted.


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## geist1223 (Oct 29, 2019)

As for Health Insurance I did my 20 years on Active Duty and Reserves for the Military Health Insurance that kicked in at 60. Then at 65 Medicare as Primary and Military as Secondary. So we do not have to worry about all the Medicare Supplement Plans.


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## controller1 (Oct 29, 2019)

geist1223 said:


> As for Health Insurance I did my 20 years on Active Duty and Reserves for the Military Health Insurance that kicked in at 60. Then at 65 Medicare as Primary and Military as Secondary. So we do not have to worry about all the Medicare Supplement Plans.



AND thank you for your service!


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## bizaro86 (Oct 29, 2019)

mpumilia said:


> I so agree. People think I am crazy when I say if we ever get to Italy we are staying in one place for a week or two and traveling out from there as a base. Maybe it will be Tuscany or Cinque Terre- not sure. I hate crowds and lines and big cities. When we went to Scotland for the first and only time that is what we did also.
> 
> And we do the USA states  that way also.
> 
> I am into the somewhat slow travel. I like to get to know a place (as much as you can in a week or two). Sure I would love to see everything. But- you cannot see a whole country in a short amount of time and I don't want to anyway. I want to feel like I am on vacation because I am. I don't want to come home exhausted.



I agree with this plan. We spent 5 nights in Venice on SPG points (5th night free) and spent 80% of the time wandering around, eating and browsing the shops. I could have done another week of the same easily. Many people I talk to are aghast - "you can see the sites in 2 days easily!" I always say that is true but not relevant - if my goal was to compile a bunch of pictures of famous sites, I could do that online from my house and save the cost of travelling...


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## Fredflintstone (Oct 29, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> I agree with this plan. We spent 5 nights in Venice on SPG points (5th night free) and spent 80% of the time wandering around, eating and browsing the shops. I could have done another week of the same easily. Many people I talk to are aghast - "you can see the sites in 2 days easily!" I always say that is true but not relevant - if my goal was to compile a bunch of pictures of famous sites, I could do that online from my house and save the cost of travelling...



Totally agree. Vacationing is about forgetting the clock for a change.

Loved Venice but loved Firenze more.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





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## rapmarks (Oct 29, 2019)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I’m retiring at 65, basically because of medical insurance.  It will eat up too much of my 401K if I go out sooner.
> 
> I’m going back to Maui for 3 weeks.  Then I will be in my new retirement home of Florida


Did you find something?


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## Sugarcubesea (Oct 29, 2019)

rapmarks said:


> Did you find something?



Not yet, but I will be looking at the complex’s I’m very interested in when I’m down in December.  I’ve meet with my financial planner and I’m on track to be able to retire at the end of the year of my 65th birthday. 

I’m hopeful that all goes as planned. I plan for the worst and hope for the best.


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## alwysonvac (Oct 29, 2019)

Wow, a lot of early retirees.

I would love to hear how the early retirees are managing healthcare insurance? Any tips?
I’m 55 years old and DH is 59 years old. I guess I should look into how much it would actually cost us . We would love to retire early.


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## bluehende (Oct 29, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> Wow, a lot of early retirees.
> 
> I would love to hear how the early retirees are managing healthcare insurance? Any tips?
> I’m 55 years old and DH is 59 years old. I guess I should look into how much it would actually cost us . We would love to retire early.



I get insurance from my old company.  It is subsidized but still not cheap.....800 a month for wife and I.  My company health insurance was decreased for the early retirement.  I looked into Obamacare and the policy that I have is about 1900 a month.  Since my income is low I could have saved a lot of money going there but once I declined the company policy I could not get back on.  I spent a lot more money for the security of that plan.


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## Luanne (Oct 29, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> Wow, a lot of early retirees.
> 
> I would love to hear how the early retirees are managing healthcare insurance? Any tips?
> I’m 55 years old and DH is 59 years old. I guess I should look into how much it would actually cost us . We would love to retire early.


I wasn't that early, I was 62, but I wasn't eligible for Medicare yet.  I was one of the lucky ones in that I had a fairly generous retirement package from AT&T.  I still got medical for me, and for dh, at a reasonable price per month.  Don't quote me on this, but I think it was around $200/month.  And it could have been that mine was free and I was just paying for dh.


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## controller1 (Oct 29, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> Wow, a lot of early retirees.
> 
> I would love to hear how the early retirees are managing healthcare insurance? Any tips?
> I’m 55 years old and DH is 59 years old. I guess I should look into how much it would actually cost us . We would love to retire early.



My previous company provides Pre-65 health care benefits.  The policies are the same as for active employees with less of a subsidy.  The health care benefits are medical, dental and vision. I'm able to choose any or all however once I decline coverage under one of the three policies I am never able to sign up again for that particular coverage.


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## Passepartout (Oct 29, 2019)

It was a little scary at first (at 62). I'd been carrying DW on my company policy, and to continue with COBRA was waaay high. We were in pretty good health then, so we rolled the dice and gambled with a succession of 6-month high deductible policies that would have bacically kept us out of the poor house if we had an accident or sudden illness before Medicare kicked in.

You just have to make the decision for what is best for your individual situation as the time approaches. Sometimes this is the thing that keeps people working. One thing the Canadian OP won't have to worry about.

Jim


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## Fredflintstone (Oct 29, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> It was a little scary at first (at 62). I'd been carrying DW on my company policy, and to continue with COBRA was waaay high. We were in pretty good health then, so we rolled the dice and gambled with a succession of 6-month high deductible policies that would have bacically kept us out of the poor house if we had an accident or sudden illness before Medicare kicked in.
> 
> You just have to make the decision for what is best for your individual situation as the time approaches. Sometimes this is the thing that keeps people working. One thing the Canadian OP won't have to worry about.
> 
> Jim



Yes, health care is covered here in Canada. Many years ago, my employer wanted me to move to the US and I declined. They wanted to know why and I told him the social benefits are affordable here. I didn’t want to plant roots (like a home) in LA and then pull up once the job was over.

It’s really sad, IMO, that all my American friends have to factor in Health Care. Many of my American friends rationalize why they should pay for someone else. In my view, helping each other is what a country is about. I respect their thinking but it saddens me when they get screwed on health care. Heck, I have a colleague/friend in the LA office get cancer and if it wasn’t for his company plan, he said his insurance would have skyrocketed to the point he would have to get “welfare” coverage as he puts it. He’s a Lawyer but says even a lawyer salary cant keep pace with specialized medical costs.

Good Health care is a right for everyone in my view whether they have the money or not.


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## VacationForever (Oct 29, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> Wow, a lot of early retirees.
> 
> I would love to hear how the early retirees are managing healthcare insurance? Any tips?
> I’m 55 years old and DH is 59 years old. I guess I should look into how much it would actually cost us . We would love to retire early.


The year after we retired, I got on an ACA plan with subsidies since we had hardly any income that year.  After that year I buy my plan from the private individual market.  It is something that just has to be a budget line item for each month/year.  I have 1 year of ACA plan and 10 years of private individual plan until Medicare kicks in.


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## Rolltydr (Oct 29, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> Wow, a lot of early retirees.
> 
> I would love to hear how the early retirees are managing healthcare insurance? Any tips?
> I’m 55 years old and DH is 59 years old. I guess I should look into how much it would actually cost us . We would love to retire early.


Early retirement is great. I would highly recommend it if you can afford to.

My DW retired from a federal law enforcement job at 57 (mandatory due to nature of job and physical requirements) and I retired at 58 from a major insurance company. Her insurance was better and cheaper than what I could get so we maintained Federal BC/BS Standard Option. She went on Medicare in January of this year and I will go on in January of 2020. We will also change to BC/BS Basic Option during this open season saving us a couple hundred dollars in premiums each month. Medicare and BC/BS coordinate coverage and we will have little or no out of pocket expenses. For those, I also get $2400 Health Reimbursement account from my retirement so we can file for any drug or doctor co-pays that aren’t covered by Medicare or BC/BS. We both will have original Medicare only. With the BC/BS there is no need for a Medigap or Medicare Advantage plan.


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## DaveNV (Oct 29, 2019)

Being retired military has a few perks I greatly appreciate.  One is insurance.  Before I was Medicare-eligible, my primary insurance since my military retirement in 1993 was Tricare Prime.  Last year when I became Medicare-eligible, things switched around, and Medicare kicked in as my primary payor, and Tricare Prime became Tricare For Life, as the secondary payor.  Tricare For Life covers Medicare part B and D, no need for a separate insurance policy.  The monthly policy premium for Tricare For Life is the same as everyone else pays.  

For the 20 years I served, and all the physical damage the military did to me, it's good to know I don't have to worry about proper medical care for the rest of my life.  I had my second knee replaced four weeks ago, and my out-of-pocket cost so far is $Zero.  You have to like that level of coverage.

Dave


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 29, 2019)

One of the reasons we have not considered retiring is the cost/lack of health care options until we are both 65...What sucks is that I don't work enough hours at the large org that I joined to qualify for health care benefits; they make sure I stay under the threshhold, and my small business can barely afford it.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 30, 2019)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Not yet, but I will be looking at the complex’s I’m very interested in when I’m down in December.  I’ve meet with my financial planner and I’m on track to be able to retire at the end of the year of my 65th birthday.
> 
> I’m hopeful that all goes as planned. I plan for the worst and hope for the best.



Best of luck! Exciting new phase of life!


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## WinniWoman (Oct 30, 2019)

If I didn't get forced out of my job at age 62 I would have hung in there until age 65 for Medicare, since my husband, who is 2 years older than me, planned to retire at age 66. (I could not get SS until age 66 and 4 months but we could deal with that and husband was not planning to apply for SS until age 70.)

Fast forward hubby has had enough of work and is retiring the end of this year at age 65 with Medicare. (No real company retiree health insurance- it is only for those under age 65 and the employee would have to pay for it! And it is expensive and very high deductible. Yeah- thanks a lot).

So this leaves me taking either the retiree health insurance or Cobra until June 2021 when I will be Medicare eligible. I will find out in a couple of weeks which is less expensive- it's the same insurance plan either way. High deductible and premiums and all that good stuff. I was going to try the ACA plans, but decided they were not that great and with moving and everything the easiest thing to do is to take hubby's employer insurance, which will also cover me in another state.

Between hubby's Medicare premiums and my health insurance, it is going to put a big hurting on our budget for the first year of no paycheck. That and the fact that even when we close and move to our new home we still have to continue to pay the rent and heating/utility expenses for the rental for several months due to the lease provisions. Budget redo # 3 coming up.

(First redo was in Fall, 2018 for my missing paycheck. Next one was just last month for this expensive rental we are in until our house is built.)

It's not easy. I so wish we had big pensions and paid health insurance, but that is not the realty.

Calling our FA next month for the game plan.


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## capjak (Oct 30, 2019)

Retired in July at 57, DW retired 2 years ago at 54.  Planned a trip to Europe then canceled due to Mother's passing.  Had short trip after to Vegas and Florida than Aruba.


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## rapmarks (Oct 30, 2019)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Not yet, but I will be looking at the complex’s I’m very interested in when I’m down in December.  I’ve meet with my financial planner and I’m on track to be able to retire at the end of the year of my 65th birthday.
> 
> I’m hopeful that all goes as planned. I plan for the worst and hope for the best.


We spent many a timeshare stay looking at houses


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## geekette (Oct 30, 2019)

Inadvertently semi retired already.  First trip was a couple months ago, next in a few weeks - I am going to a camp being built by a friend of mine in NC wilderness.   Perfect de-stress for me, a nature girl.


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## klpca (Oct 30, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> I agree that in Europe, one MUST pace themselves. When we started going, my DW would research to the n'th degree what to see and museum hours and how to avoid lines, etc. etc. She honestly layed it out with a clipboard full of notes and maps and schedules and brochures. I carried a video camera and tried to capture it 'for the future when we were old and couldn't travel anymore'. After a few of these trips, I said ENOUGH! I was tired of seeing the sights through a viewfinder, and running willy-nilly to make it to the next site. We would come home exhausted and sick as often as not.
> 
> So now, we still go on extended trips to faraway places a couple of times a year, but no clipboard. And no video camera. And we build in some relax, enjoy the place and bond with the local culture time. Learn some of the language. Shop the local market- not so much to buy stuff, but to rub shoulders with local people. Eat what they eat, drink what and where they drink.
> 
> ...


We are usually relaxed travelers - one set "thing to see" per day and the rest is whatever seems good at the moment. This trip became way more scheduled than I would like because of tours (D-Day, bicycle, Versailles) and museums that required set times (Louvre, Giverny). We missed our first bicycle tour (location mix up) and rescheduled so that was another morning with a fixed time requirement. Normally I am a morning person, but since sunrise was around 8:00, I struggled to get out of bed and had to set an alarm, which is a terrible way to start a vacation day if you ask me. Also we stayed in Normandy at the timeshare in Connelles which required way more driving than I had anticipated, which in turn led to more early mornings. (Paris was at the Royal Regency - awesome location). My husband had quite a to-do list (good thing that we got it all done because I don't see a return trip in our future, lol). Also, there were many tour groups that caused a lot of chaos - truly a lot of very rude behavior, mostly with pushing and bumping. After we saw the Mona Lisa (big whoop, btw) I told my husband that I wasn't going to get through this visit without a glass of wine . Luckily it's France and they have wine everywhere, so we eventually found the museum cafe and life was good again. Actually, once we left the room with the Mona Lisa, there were no crowds at all.  I'm not sure how it turned into such a march, the itinerary didn't look that busy on paper, but it wore me out, and yes I am sick, lol. 



CalGalTraveler said:


> One of the reasons we have not considered retiring is the cost/lack of health care options until we are both 65...What sucks is that I don't work enough hours at the large org that I joined to qualify for health care benefits; they make sure I stay under the threshhold, and my small business can barely afford it.


Isn't it the truth? If it wasn't for the health insurance issue, we may have already retired.


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## PamMo (Oct 30, 2019)

For those trying to figure out early retirement, factoring in healthcare costs is an important piece of the puzzle. We're fortunate, and have always enjoyed excellent health, so bought the cheapest ACA plan with a high deductible. It was still expensive, partly due to limited plans in our area (this year there was only one). Annual cost for insurance has run $20-28K/yr for the two of us, which pays for an annual physical and flu shot. After premiums, we've been on the hook for the next $8,000 before insurance kicks in. We're glad we have insurance though, as I blew w-a-y past that this year!


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## klpca (Oct 30, 2019)

PamMo said:


> For those trying to figure out early retirement, factoring in healthcare costs is an important piece of the puzzle. We're fortunate, and have always enjoyed excellent health, and bought the cheapest ACA plan with a high deductible. It was still expensive, partly due to limited plans in our area (this year there was only one). Annual cost for insurance has run $20-28K/yr for the two of us, which pays for an annual physical and flu shot. After premiums, we've been on the hook for the next $8,000 before insurance kicks in. We're glad we have insurance though, as I blew w-a-y past that this year!


We are way more worried about access to health care than the cost (although that is very important). If the pre-exisitng condition protection goes away, we're screwed. So we are doing what we have to do to stay on a company plan.


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## tompalm (Oct 30, 2019)

alwysonvac said:


> Wow, a lot of early retirees.
> 
> I would love to hear how the early retirees are managing healthcare insurance? Any tips?
> I’m 55 years old and DH is 59 years old. I guess I should look into how much it would actually cost us . We would love to retire early.



I was in a job I loved and had planned to work until age 65.  Than Aloha Airlines shutdown and a few days later there was a meeting for all the pilots and the biggest gripe was that people did not have health care. On that day, I remembered that I did have health care from a 20 year Navy retirement and started using my Tricare insurance. I was 54 years old and found myself unemployed and later I decided to call it early retirement and was able to get by on my Navy pension and some rental income that we had. A lot of the pilots took any job they could find that had health insurance. It was a major issue for most folks, but people did what they had to get insurance. That is something people overlook or take for granted when job hunting. There should be more information about that. But what 20 year old is going to worry about something 40 years away and something that might change. I feel lucky that I have it.  My neighbor taught school for 30 years for the state of Hawaii and got that as part of his retirement.  I don’t think anyone can truly appreciate having that benefit until it is time for retirement.


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## tompalm (Oct 30, 2019)

Regarding trips, there were no big trips to celebrate retirement.  But not working and being flexible helps save a lot of money.  Last year, Hawaiian had a sale for flights to Japan at $450 RT and we bought tickets. I had enough Hilton points to stay for free and bought a seven day rail pass for $255 pp. The entire trip cost about $2000 for DW and I for eight days. We also found a deal on a Panama Canal cruise and spent two weeks traveling on the east coast after that. There is no need to hurry up and take a big trip. Look for the deals and save money to take more trips.


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## PcflEZFlng (Oct 30, 2019)

*Health insurance:* Retired just shy of age 61, went on COBRA for 3 years at $650 per month. When COBRA runs out next April, I'll have one year to bridge to Medicare, so I'll buy the same plan on the state exchange (ACA) where my monthly cost will go up to about $850, unsubsidized. DW is still teaching so she's on her employer's plan (no cost) until she retires two years from now. Then either COBRA or ACA for her until Medicare.

*Travel:* We took an awesome Mediterranean cruise about 5 years ago. We loved it so much we're planning to take another one to the Aegean in two years for our 40th wedding anniversary. Two years ago, we took a trip with family to New England, Montreal and New York, and then I took a tour of Israel. I would also like to go back to Spain, Italy, and the Balkan peninsula. Meanwhile, we'll continue enjoying timeshares, mainly the desert and occasionally Hawaii, like we've been doing for the past 15 years.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 31, 2019)

If they lowered the US Medicare age to 55, many more people would retire. We probably would.


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## isisdave (Oct 31, 2019)

We ooze out of bed at the crack of 9:30 or so, have a little breakfast, hit the street about 11, typically see one thing, walking to it if possible. Lunch/dinner about 4, relax at the apartment or wherever, make some little supper snack. If there's a nearby free concert, like there usually is in Florence, great! Early to bed. Rinse, repeat.

Rick Steves often points out that the places inundated by tourists by day are often empty at night. This is true of all the Italian hill towns, and they are just SO pleasant after 6pm on a fine summer evening.

We petsit a lot and so stay in one place for a week or more, but even when on our own, it's always at least three days per stop.

Brother-in-law, 8 years younger, is still on the spreadsheet-guided go-go-go mode. We can only join him for about two days of that mode.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 31, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> If they lowered the US Medicare age to 55, many more people would retire. We probably would.



I will tell you, after seeing the Medicare rates for my husband yesterday. Medicare with the supplements are no bargain.

Example: $135 per month for Part B; $210 per month for Part G; $14.00 per month for part D (cheapest plan). Then Part B has a $185 per year deductible; Part A has a $1364 per BENEFIT PERIOD- NOT ANNUAL- deductible. If you're a couple, double that.

When I factor in health insurance for me at somewhere about $500- $600 per month- we are looking at a total of close to $1000 per month coming out of the household just for health insurance.

Retirement? What are we thinking? This is crazy.


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## WinniWoman (Oct 31, 2019)

PcflEZFlng said:


> *Health insurance:* Retired just shy of age 61, went on COBRA for 3 years at $650 per month. When COBRA runs out next April, I'll have one year to bridge to Medicare, so I'll buy the same plan on the state exchange (ACA) where my monthly cost will go up to about $850, unsubsidized. DW is still teaching so she's on her employer's plan (no cost) until she retires two years from now. Then either COBRA or ACA for her until Medicare.
> 
> *Travel:* We took an awesome Mediterranean cruise about 5 years ago. We loved it so much we're planning to take another one to the Aegean in two years for our 40th wedding anniversary. Two years ago, we took a trip with family to New England, Montreal and New York, and then I took a tour of Israel. I would also like to go back to Spain, Italy, and the Balkan peninsula. Meanwhile, we'll continue enjoying timeshares, mainly the desert and occasionally Hawaii, like we've been doing for the past 15 years.



I was told by my husband's employer that Cobra is for 18 months. How did you manage 3 years?


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## maddog497 (Oct 31, 2019)

Being Canadian, I have a hard time getting my head around the health care numbers, wow, just wow.

We retire in 2023, my wife 1 month before me. I could retire 1 year sooner but will not. I will be 60 and my wife 55.

We both will have good pensions, and feel very fortunate for that. I was the spender and she was the saver before marriage. She won the battle and I am so thankful for that now.

We plan on a 10-12 week trip the first winter retired.  Starting down the east coast of the USA, then a month in Mexico, then a month around the Sedona area and then back up the west coast to British Columbia and then home to Ontario.

I'm sure this could all change, but that's been the conversation so far.

We both have jobs we love and 20 years ago I couldn't imagine day dreaming about retirement but now I know the years/months/days to that day, lol. 

Sent from my SM-G975W using Tapatalk


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## turkel (Oct 31, 2019)

Honestly no matter what happens with healthcare in the US I don’t ever see the preexisting cause or coverage until 26 going away. 

We are very fortunate to have health coverage until Medicare kicks in, my DH complains bitterly that they switched to Medicare half way through his career. I guess it’s all about expectations. He specifically chose his career looking for a pension and early retirement. He is a lucky man that he loves his job so much so that he will do an extra 3.5 years with no further retirement accumulation while paying in an extra 20k/yr towards his pension.

I would prefer he retire yesterday but I am starting to get excited about making plans for our future travels.


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## PcflEZFlng (Oct 31, 2019)

mpumilia said:


> I was told by my husband's employer that Cobra is for 18 months. How did you manage 3 years?


California provides an 18-month extension, called Cal-COBRA. Other states have extensions as well.


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## turkel (Oct 31, 2019)

PcflEZFlng said:


> California provides an 18-month extension, called Cal-COBRA. Other states have extensions as well.



Good to know. I wonder how long California has had this law. I seem to remember my mom got an extended Cobra coverage when my dad passed away 19 years ago. How she got coverage after Cobra I don’t know since she had a stroke 9 months after my dad passed. Certainly a preexisting condition back then. I do remember she paid 1.1 k a month after cobra. So her insurance was expensive back then too!

On Medicare she pays $2.00 a month for Kaiser and it annoys her that they won’t take the full years payment as one. Her Kaiser coverage includes Dental too which is interesting since I believe most Medicare does not cover Dental.


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## geekette (Oct 31, 2019)

I am generally an oddball, I'm used to it, but probably will freak some people out:  I'm going uninsured.  It is better for me to keep insurance dollars in my pocket and pay as I go and 600/mo isn't reasonable.  I have a great set of doctors all based in a hospital system attached to a university.   I get a cash discount for visits (less than "my part" after insurance!) and for major stuff, 0% payment plans.   I still have money in HSAs and will part with it as I go. 

I expect many to think that I'm enormously foolish, but what I'm doing is minding the pennies so the dollars stay with me until actually needed to pay for health care.  I don't need health insurance, I need health care.  Massive difference, and I'm cutting out the middleman.  If something catastrophic occurs, I'll deal with it, probably from the 600/mo I'm not pre-paying.  I will not allow fear of Something Happening to coerce me into further bolstering insurance co profits.


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## rapmarks (Oct 31, 2019)

geekette said:


> I am generally an oddball, I'm used to it, but probably will freak some people out:  I'm going uninsured.  It is better for me to keep insurance dollars in my pocket and pay as I go and 600/mo isn't reasonable.  I have a great set of doctors all based in a hospital system attached to a university.   I get a cash discount for visits (less than "my part" after insurance!) and for major stuff, 0% payment plans.   I still have money in HSAs and will part with it as I go.
> 
> I expect many to think that I'm enormously foolish, but what I'm doing is minding the pennies so the dollars stay with me until actually needed to pay for health care.  I don't need health insurance, I need health care.  Massive difference, and I'm cutting out the middleman.  If something catastrophic occurs, I'll deal with it, probably from the 600/mo I'm not pre-paying.  I will not allow fear of Something Happening to coerce me into further bolstering insurance co profits.


I could have done that at your age. Not after 64.  My insurance is around six hundred a month, but pays out well over ten thousand a year.


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## Big Matt (Oct 31, 2019)

I'm 56 and own a business so I may never really retire (don't tell my wife).  She's already retired from teaching at 54.  We've got good healthcare through her school system.  If I do retire, I'm going to take a 30 day adventure driving across country and back stopping along the way for a couple days at a time.  My son is in Oakland, so that's a logical end point.  I think I will do the northerly track on the way and hit places like Chicago, the Dakotas, and Seattle, down to Portland, and down the coast.  Come back through Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, South Carolina, Asheville and back to the DC metro area.  I've got 1.5 million Marriott points that need to get spent at some point.


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## Passepartout (Oct 31, 2019)

Big Matt said:


> I'm 56 and own a business so I may never really retire (don't tell my wife).  She's already retired from teaching at 54.  We've got good healthcare through her school system.  If I do retire, I'm going to take a 30 day adventure driving across country and back stopping along the way for a couple days at a time.  My son is in Oakland, so that's a logical end point.  I think I will do the northerly track on the way and hit places like Chicago, the Dakotas, and Seattle, down to Portland, and down the coast.  Come back through Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, South Carolina, Asheville and back to the DC metro area.  I've got 1.5 million Marriott points that need to get spent at some point.


56 is pretty young, but road trips like you are envisioning are pretty stressful and tiring, and require some planning. Don't wait too long. My wife still maintains some office hours and we travel extensively, so being self-employed doesn't require you to be chained to a desk. You won't regret that you traveled when you were young enough to enjoy it.

Jim


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## WinniWoman (Oct 31, 2019)

geekette said:


> I am generally an oddball, I'm used to it, but probably will freak some people out:  I'm going uninsured.  It is better for me to keep insurance dollars in my pocket and pay as I go and 600/mo isn't reasonable.  I have a great set of doctors all based in a hospital system attached to a university.   I get a cash discount for visits (less than "my part" after insurance!) and for major stuff, 0% payment plans.   I still have money in HSAs and will part with it as I go.
> 
> I expect many to think that I'm enormously foolish, but what I'm doing is minding the pennies so the dollars stay with me until actually needed to pay for health care.  I don't need health insurance, I need health care.  Massive difference, and I'm cutting out the middleman.  If something catastrophic occurs, I'll deal with it, probably from the 600/mo I'm not pre-paying.  I will not allow fear of Something Happening to coerce me into further bolstering insurance co profits.




I love this and I have said this for years. How about if NO ONE buys health insurance? We all keep our money? Invest it or put it in a savings account. (kind of like the HSA concept is for high deductible plans, except no rules or regulations for using your own money). That is a way to collapse the existing status quo and maybe some real positive change would happen! (of course, almost everyone would have to participate in the health insurance ban). One reason healthcare is so expensive is due to insurance! And to liability- attorneys and lawsuits. And government inefficiency. And high administrative costs.  And the high cost of health care university education- due to government subsidies (Pell grants, etc.) resulting in high tuition. And.....well- you name it...

I wish I had the courage that you have! Kudos!

PS And considering what you went through health wise not too long ago- you really are brave! Joan of Arc!


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## klpca (Oct 31, 2019)

turkel said:


> Honestly no matter what happens with healthcare in the US I don’t ever see the preexisting cause or coverage until 26 going away.


They go away automatically if Obamacare goes away. There would have to be legislation to reinstate them, I believe.


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## Big Matt (Oct 31, 2019)

Mary Ann, healthcare insurance is expensive for a number of reasons.  1) all of the medical R&D somehow needs to get paid for.  That's why MRI machines are so expensive and why some drugs are $1000 per dose.  2) Hospitals charge a fortune and then break even (what?).  3) Insurance subsidizes those in poor health by those with good health.  Same with Medicare/Medicaid.  4) Then  there is my favorite......having people pay for things that they don't really need and charging them a fortune.  Like when I _*HAD *_to get custom orthotics that cost $150.  

If everything was a Chinese menu, people would go to doctors and hospitals a lot, lot less.  Maybe people would try to be more healthy too if they new that they had to pay for everything out of pocket like it was 100 years ago.


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## Big Matt (Oct 31, 2019)

geekette said:


> I am generally an oddball, I'm used to it, but probably will freak some people out:  I'm going uninsured.  It is better for me to keep insurance dollars in my pocket and pay as I go and 600/mo isn't reasonable.  I have a great set of doctors all based in a hospital system attached to a university.   I get a cash discount for visits (less than "my part" after insurance!) and for major stuff, 0% payment plans.   I still have money in HSAs and will part with it as I go.
> 
> I expect many to think that I'm enormously foolish, but what I'm doing is minding the pennies so the dollars stay with me until actually needed to pay for health care.  I don't need health insurance, I need health care.  Massive difference, and I'm cutting out the middleman.  If something catastrophic occurs, I'll deal with it, probably from the 600/mo I'm not pre-paying.  I will not allow fear of Something Happening to coerce me into further bolstering insurance co profits.


....And furthermore, if you have a catastrophic event, the hospital will work out a reasonable payment option or write most of it off.  They really don't like it when patients declare bankruptcy and they get nothing.


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## klpca (Oct 31, 2019)

mpumilia said:


> I love this and I have said this for years. How about if NO ONE buys health insurance? We all keep our money? Invest it or put it in a savings account. (kind of like the HSA concept is for high deductible plans, except no rules or regulations for using your own money). That is a way to collapse the existing status quo and maybe some real positive change would happen! (of course, almost everyone would have to participate in the health insurance ban). One reason healthcare is so expensive is due to insurance! And to liability- attorneys and lawsuits. And government inefficiency. And high administrative costs.  And the high cost of health care university education- due to government subsidies (Pell grants, etc.) resulting in high tuition. And.....well- you name it...
> 
> I wish I had the courage that you have! Kudos!
> 
> PS And considering what you went through health wise not too long ago- you really are brave! Joan of Arc!


I can't begin to imagine what out total cost has been for the past few years. Surgeries (2), eight weeks of radiation, an ambulance ride (that was something like $1k), an emergency stent placement. Numerous labs, numerous drug therapies. No matter how much money we had saved over the past 37 years of working, I think that it wouldn't have been enough. When you are only minimally accessing health care, the cost of the premiums seems high. When you need it, you are glad that you have it.

We have been paying $1k +/- for homeowners insurance for 32 years, just one small claim about 20 years ago. Same with our auto insurance. I am still happy to have it to protect our assets. I feel the same way about health insurance.


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## klpca (Oct 31, 2019)

Big Matt said:


> ....And furthermore, if you have a catastrophic event, the hospital will work out a reasonable payment option or write most of it off.  They really don't like it when patients declare bankruptcy and they get nothing.


Then those written off costs get spread out among those who are paying with health insurance. The expenses don't go poof. They have to be paid by someone.


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## Big Matt (Oct 31, 2019)

klpca said:


> Then those written off costs get spread out among those who are paying with health insurance. The expenses don't go poof. They have to be paid by someone.


Not true.  I'm close friends with someone who runs two hospitals in a big hospital group.  It happens all the time.  Many of the expenses are "phantom".  If the hospital isn't full, the marginal cost of the room is near nothing.  Labor is cheap.  It's the huge charges by the doctors, and use of medical equipment.  How much does it cost to do an MRI.  Not much.  The equipment is expensive up front, but marginally cheap unless the hospital leases it.


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## amycurl (Oct 31, 2019)

The number one reason why folks declare bankruptcy in this country is medical debt. And 100 years ago, a lot of people died because they couldn't afford to pay straight out of pocket (if they could even access care.)


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## PcflEZFlng (Oct 31, 2019)

The obscenely high cost of medical procedures (and don't forget prescription drug costs!) seems to be unique to this country among the developed nations. There are specific reasons why our politicians aren't aggressively tackling this, and those reasons are uniformly green.

A book I read last year (_Tailspin: The People and Forces Behind America's Fifty-Year Fall - and Those Fighting to Reverse It_, by Steven Brill) gives a pretty credible explanation of the causes.


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## clifffaith (Oct 31, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> I agree with this plan. We spent 5 nights in Venice on SPG points (5th night free) and spent 80% of the time wandering around, eating and browsing the shops. I could have done another week of the same easily. Many people I talk to are aghast - "you can see the sites in 2 days easily!" I always say that is true but not relevant - if my goal was to compile a bunch of pictures of famous sites, I could do that online from my house and save the cost of travelling...



We discovered when we got a "we are enjoying Montreal" email from my cousin that, guess what, "we're here too!" They were on the last of three days when we met for a dinner cruise. We'd been there two days and they couldn't figure out how we were going to spend five more! Some how we managed to fill the time!


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## klpca (Oct 31, 2019)

After the day I had at work today, retirement is looking better and better.


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## Luanne (Oct 31, 2019)

klpca said:


> After the day I had at work today, retirement is looking better and better.


After I retired I wondered why I hadn't done it years earlier.


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## geekette (Oct 31, 2019)

amycurl said:


> The number one reason why folks declare bankruptcy in this country is medical debt. And 100 years ago, a lot of people died because they couldn't afford to pay straight out of pocket (if they could even access care.)


Medical debt itself is not the bankruptcy cause.  It is trying everything to erase it that harms people.  I might not have my radiation paid off for another 2 years, or, I could sell stock and settle it right now, but harm my future.  I can co-exist with the payments for years better than I can co-exist with my sister if I sold my house to settle all costs I have and will incur.

I am fully willing to pay a fair price for care I need, I just might not always be able to pay the whole thing immediately.  Finding a hospital system that cares about the people more than prompt in full payment has been beneficial to me in being able to continue treatment, and payments.  My most important doctor writes all of my appointments off.  there are no supplies used, and she is salary.  No real cost to hospital, just not a profit.   At some point after I have everything paid off, I know exactly where donation dollars are going:  that hospital.  Cutting me a break when I needed it is massive reason to return the favor later.   Way better use of my funds than continuing insurance payments.

Not sure about 100 years ago, but certainly large quantities of women died needlessly since we were not economically necessary and not seen as physically different from men (where all the research was).  We still lose far too many to childbirth.   

Seems to me that if your town had a doctor, he might accept a chicken in payment.   Insurance companies weren't in the health market so there was no middleman between person and doctor.   Not sure that doctors were wealthy back then, they wanted to heal people and weren't under threat of lawsuit.  Costs have piled in from areas not related to direct treatment of patients.


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## geekette (Oct 31, 2019)

klpca said:


> After the day I had at work today, retirement is looking better and better.


From the other side, it stresses me out to think about returning to my career, so I'm not doing it.  Sending you sweet evening Peace.


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## geekette (Oct 31, 2019)

klpca said:


> They go away automatically if Obamacare goes away. There would have to be legislation to reinstate them, I believe.


I think you are correct, it's there now by law, not by generosity of insurers.  However, public pressure could do it without legislation, and would be my plan if law reverses.  We have a lot of insurance companies here with massive beautiful campuses.   They would look great with sign carriers.   

Lifetime caps need to stay out, too, as infants born sick were royally screwed forever after.  There should never ever be a cap on getting the care a body needs.  We are all a bag of pre-existing conditions on the basis of being Human.   I would like the phrase "pre-existing condition" to disappear.  It came in with insurers wanting to protect their dollars from people that might cause them to pay out and can go out with them, too.


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## geekette (Oct 31, 2019)

Big Matt said:


> Not true.  I'm close friends with someone who runs two hospitals in a big hospital group.  It happens all the time.  Many of the expenses are "phantom".  If the hospital isn't full, the marginal cost of the room is near nothing.  Labor is cheap.  It's the huge charges by the doctors, and use of medical equipment.  How much does it cost to do an MRI.  Not much.  The equipment is expensive up front, but marginally cheap unless the hospital leases it.


Yes, this is my understanding, too.   each hospital has a carefully guarded "Chargemaster" that dictates what is charged for each procedure.  It will always be to the patient's benefit to shop around because an xray here doesn't cost the same as an xray there.  

Just like a retail store, they charge what the market will bear.   "Reasonable and customary" costs in your area dictate what insurance pays and it does not at all sync up with Chargemasters.


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## Passepartout (Oct 31, 2019)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The USA would be a far better place to live when universal health care becomes a right and is not treated as a privelege. And again- No nation that provides universal health care's people have EVER petitioned or voted to go back to 'fee for service'.

Just look at the number of TUGgers who have delayed retirement or travel so that they can afford to provide for their own- or a family's health care.

So see, it IS about timeshareing.    (I DO know the rules)

Jim


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## Rolltydr (Oct 31, 2019)

turkel said:


> Honestly no matter what happens with healthcare in the US I don’t ever see the preexisting cause or coverage until 26 going away.
> 
> We are very fortunate to have health coverage until Medicare kicks in, my DH complains bitterly that they switched to Medicare half way through his career. I guess it’s all about expectations. He specifically chose his career looking for a pension and early retirement. He is a lucky man that he loves his job so much so that he will do an extra 3.5 years with no further retirement accumulation while paying in an extra 20k/yr towards his pension.
> 
> I would prefer he retire yesterday but I am starting to get excited about making plans for our future travels.



Why do you not see pre-existing and age 26 going away? A federal appeals court may any day now uphold a lower court ruling that the ACA is unconstitutional. Then, it presumably would go to the Supreme Court for final adjudication with a ruling possible by next summer. If they uphold the prior rulings, about 21,000,000 people will be without healthcare, immediately. Many of those will be unable to get replacement healthcare due to pre-existing conditions or they will simply not be able to afford the cost. This isn’t getting much press right now due to everything else that’s in the news, but if it happens, it is going to be catastrophic. 

I hope you’re right but I don’t share your optimism.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Rolltydr (Oct 31, 2019)

turkel said:


> Honestly no matter what happens with healthcare in the US I don’t ever see the preexisting cause or coverage until 26 going away.
> 
> We are very fortunate to have health coverage until Medicare kicks in, my DH complains bitterly that they switched to Medicare half way through his career. I guess it’s all about expectations. He specifically chose his career looking for a pension and early retirement. He is a lucky man that he loves his job so much so that he will do an extra 3.5 years with no further retirement accumulation while paying in an extra 20k/yr towards his pension.
> 
> I would prefer he retire yesterday but I am starting to get excited about making plans for our future travels.



Why do you not see pre-existing and age 26 going away? The Supreme Court may rule any day now that the ACA is unconstitutional. If they do, about 21,000,000 people will be without healthcare, immediately. Many of those will be unable to get replacement healthcare due to pre-existing conditions or they will simply not be able to afford the cost. This isn’t getting much press right now due to everything else that’s in the news, but if it happens, it is going to be catastrophic. 

I hope you’re right but I don’t share your optimism.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## turkel (Oct 31, 2019)

Rolltydr said:


> Why do you not see pre-existing and age 26 going away? The Supreme Court may rule any day now that the ACA is unconstitutional. If they do, about 21,000,000 people will be without healthcare, immediately. Many of those will be unable to get replacement healthcare due to pre-existing conditions or they will simply not be able to afford the cost. This isn’t getting much press right now due to everything else that’s in the news, but if it happens, it is going to be catastrophic.
> 
> I hope you’re right but I don’t share your optimism.
> 
> ...



Well, I just don’t. Call it optimism or pessimism. No matter where you stand on the issue I believe there would be such a universal out cry if either of these where rolled back that it won’t happen.

Plenty of people purchased Health Insurance prior to the ACA and IF it is repealed I am sure they will again. We still have plenty of uninsured in this country.


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## Rolltydr (Oct 31, 2019)

turkel said:


> Well, I just don’t. Call it optimism or pessimism. No matter where you stand on the issue I believe there would be such a universal out cry if either of these where rolled back that it won’t happen.
> 
> Plenty of people purchased Health Insurance prior to the ACA and IF it is repealed I am sure they will again. We still have plenty of uninsured in this country.


I heard an interview with Seema Verma (CMS Director) today and she was asked directly several times if there was a plan to deal with the millions of uninsured if the ACA is struck down and she did not have an answer. So, there is no plan. I assume the court would allow a timeframe for congress to pass a substitute but do you actually think this congress and president can actually agree on something? I don’t. This is probably getting close to breaching the TUG rules, so I’ll stop now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## geekette (Oct 31, 2019)

Rolltydr said:


> Why do you not see pre-existing and age 26 going away? The Supreme Court may rule any day now that the ACA is unconstitutional.* If they do, about 21,000,000 people will be without healthcare, immediately.* Many of those will be unable to get replacement healthcare due to pre-existing conditions or they will simply not be able to afford the cost. This isn’t getting much press right now due to everything else that’s in the news, but if it happens, it is going to be catastrophic.
> 
> I hope you’re right but I don’t share your optimism.
> 
> ...



This is not accurate.  First, no one is ever without healthcare, it is always a matter of Who Pays.

Second, there is no immediate loss of coverage.  Every insurance plan is calendar year; it's a contract bound by the policy and continued payment on that policy.   I know of no insurance company that would suddenly refuse premiums already agreed to be paid.   It is also not quite possible for insurers to suddenly change their policies, here at open enrollment time.   Whatever is being bought now, is the deal for 2020.   

Nobody should fear suddenly not being able to go to the doctor because that will never be true.  There is also no big rush to "lock down" an insurance policy for 2020 just in case laws change.  If anything, you'd see a sudden emergence of very cheap plans covering very little for young people, and very pricey slim coverage for older folks.   Buyer beware.  Insurance is tricky and is designed to profit the company, not the insured.


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## SmileLynn (Oct 31, 2019)

Jan 1, 2015, just turning 64, DH retired after 42 1/2 years. 7 days later we were in Kauai for 13 weeks. It was a hard decision to retire being 8 12 years younger, but after DH was diagnosed with Parkinsons Disease a few years prior, we didnt know how well we could travel if we waited 9 more years. So we had a plan. Travel now, take pictures, and relive the memoreis when we no longer could travel. Fortunately, we were offered good health insurance as part of his retirement  package for less than $500/mo combined.
We are Wyndham owners and visited 56 of their properities since retirement. The memories piled up and we met so many wonderful Wyndham owners and Tuggers! The places were great but the people were outstanding! We looked forward to meeting up with different couples all over the country. We attended the annual Wyndham meetings and the annual Tugger get togethers in January in Orlando.
Thanksgiving Day 2018, DH unexpectedly passed away, not from PD, but a pulmonary embolism. Its been a rough year. I never thought Id be a widow before 60. I dont know what I would have done without the wonderful friends we made in those 3 3/4 years. They picked me up & put me back in motion instead of letting me become dormant this past winter in Iowa and the rest of the year. 
So... dont wait, plan that vacation/retirement and go at it with gusto and no regrets! Who knows what tomorrow brings.
Oh, by the way, Ill be at the Annual Wyndham meeting in Austin and the TUG get together in Orlando in January. Introduce yourself. I love meeting new people!


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## turkel (Nov 1, 2019)

So sorry for your loss.

My mother was widowed at 58. She is 78 now and very busy. I call her the Social Butterfly because she is never home.

I am so glad you have those wonderful memories. 

All my best.


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## joestein (Nov 1, 2019)

My wife and I turned 49 this year.  I am not sure when we will retire.   We are in good financial health.    We just paid off the mortgage.   We max out our 401K contributions.  We basically live very nicely on my take home pay and bank my wifes.

However, we have 2 kids who are juniors in HS and will be starting college in 2021.    One of them wants to be a Dentist and the other one Virologist(wants to work for the CDC).  Schooling will be expensive.  We have saved money in a 529 plan to cover a 4-year college, but not post graduate.

So, I don't think we can retire before schooling ends which will probably be 2029.    We will be 59 at that time.   I guess we will have to see what we have in investments and what is the status of health insurance (medicaid for all?)

I don't really have any sort of trip planned to celebrate our retirement.   There are a bunch of trips I would like to make while I am still working.   Trying to convince the wife to go on safari.

All we can do now is to continue on our path and try to make good decisions.

Joe


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## Makai Guy (Nov 1, 2019)

Now that we're finally back on topic...

First trip after retirement: shakedown 'cruise' for our new 5th wheel trailer, 17 years ago this month.


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## presley (Nov 1, 2019)

I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?

It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.


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## geekette (Nov 1, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.


I'm looking forward to responses to this question, and I think it all boils down to how one defines "work". 

While I do not currently have an employer, I am busy finishing a faux fur coat (and other items) for a craft fair in one week.  I am toiling with expectation of financial reward, but it's kind of fun, except when it's not (ugh, so many seams I've had to rip...)   I will be very careful to say, I am not building a business, it is monetizing a hobby.  There will be no empire nor employees, and while I don't fear getting fired, I do fear getting too many custom orders.  My objective is to reduce stress and replace with art therapy.  If I get over-deadlined, I'm right back in the pressure-cooker that I seek to avoid.  I already have 2 custom orders, one that will be quick, the other more complicated.  I have decided to not put up a sign about accepting custom orders at the show but depending on audience engagement, I may come out of there with a few.  If someone loves this piece but it's wrong size, I would absolutely remake one in correct size.  I think I could like that deadline of "someone likes my stuff!"  

I may at some time pick up a part time job at grocery store, SBUX or fabric store.  If I do that, there will be benefits involved, plus a discount.  At this point in my life, there is no reason to work for someone else unless there is more than money to it.   Many people want me to do Etsy or put my stuff on my own website, etc., but I am not doing that.  I want to spend the bulk of my time doing what I want and reducing administrative overhead as much as possible.  For what I'm making, every piece unique, web selling would be a massive time suck.  And I honestly do not at all want to be a shipper or deal with returns.  

I'm 54 and calling this semi-retirement.   I don't think I want my career back but I reserve the right to change my mind.


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## bluehende (Nov 1, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.



We have different philosophies here.

Me    Never worked a day after retirement and do not plan to after 12 1/2 yrs

wife   Had a daycare in the house.  She substitutes at a local daycare.  She works two days a week unless physical problems or trips interfere.

We do not need the cash.  She says she would miss working with kids.


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## Luanne (Nov 1, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.


When dh and I retired his theory was that we'd both need to take part time jobs, not for the money, but to keep busy.  His idea is that you have to have a reason to get up in the morning.  Fast forward 7 years and neither one of us has held a paying job since then.  We've found so much to do to keep us busy that we haven't needed the jobs.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 1, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.



I feel the same way, although I'm well short of retirement age so maybe in a few decades I'll feel differently. I expect to slowly slow down over a period of years working less and less until I'm down to "hobby" levels. I can work remotely as well, so it doesn't interfere with travelling.


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## controller1 (Nov 1, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.



I retired a little over seven years ago but not before checking with our financial advisor as to whether we afford to retire _and_ do the travel we wanted to do.  The answer was positive.

I have not worked a paying job since I walked out the door and have turned down two very lucrative short-term (6-8 weeks) assignments in my field of expertise.  Part of retiring is not having work-related stress and IMO as long as I had a work-related responsibility I was going to have work-related stress/anxiety.

Now I volunteer at our church, an elementary school and a retiree association but I know I can walk away from those at any time if I desire.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 1, 2019)

geekette said:


> Medical debt itself is not the bankruptcy cause.  It is trying everything to erase it that harms people.  I might not have my radiation paid off for another 2 years, or, I could sell stock and settle it right now, but harm my future.  I can co-exist with the payments for years better than I can co-exist with my sister if I sold my house to settle all costs I have and will incur.
> 
> I am fully willing to pay a fair price for care I need, I just might not always be able to pay the whole thing immediately.  Finding a hospital system that cares about the people more than prompt in full payment has been beneficial to me in being able to continue treatment, and payments.  My most important doctor writes all of my appointments off.  there are no supplies used, and she is salary.  No real cost to hospital, just not a profit.   At some point after I have everything paid off, I know exactly where donation dollars are going:  that hospital.  Cutting me a break when I needed it is massive reason to return the favor later.   Way better use of my funds than continuing insurance payments.
> 
> ...



Based on your rationale I assume you also don't by home insurance?

This is rolling the dice. Costs can easily reach a million or more if something unforeseen occurs. $600/month savings will go nowhere near the ability to cover this - especially if you contract a disease that requires specialists at another hospital that don't "trade chickens." 

And youth doesn't help. We had a healthy teen relative who had complications of an illness where the costs ran to a million dollars. Thank goodness there was insurance. His family, who was financially secure, would have drained their retirement, lost their home and their lives would have been completely altered if there was no insurance. (The teen is better now.).

So if you are willing to protect your home, why would you put off saving your life? or are you expecting the taxpayers to bail you out after you go bankrupt?


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## VacationForever (Nov 1, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.


We don't work for money at all after we retired 3.5 years ago.  We still wake up at around 6am 7 days a week.  My days are filled with golf a couple of times a week, volunteering at a non-profit, gym, cards with a couple of ladies groups and cooking dinners.

I made sure that our financial health on paper is good before retiring.  I have on Excel our 30+-year budget, i.e. income vs expenses.  We have money in buckets and include a bucket that won't be tapped for 3 decades until I need it or if I die before, it goes to my estate.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 1, 2019)

turkel said:


> Well, I just don’t. Call it optimism or pessimism. No matter where you stand on the issue I believe there would be such a universal out cry if either of these where rolled back that it won’t happen.
> 
> Plenty of people purchased Health Insurance prior to the ACA and IF it is repealed I am sure they will again. We still have plenty of uninsured in this country.



There has been a universal outcry on many issues (e.g. guns after mass shootings) but nothing has changed. Why do you think this will be any different?

The biggest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was unpaid medical costs.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 1, 2019)

I have not been employed in over a year now and just like I always said when I did work- "I have no time to work".

Actually- just living life and dealing with day to day responsibilities is enough work for me. And obviously with just selling our home and moving I have been crazy busy above and beyond what I normally am.

If I ever get to the point where I have a a true "retired" type lifestyle, I might- and that is a BIG MIGHT- do a very part-time per diem type gig in the tourism industry where we are moving. Like a tour guide at a museum or something like that. MAYBE.

But I will have enough to do for a very long time with moving to a new home in a new area.


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## turkel (Nov 1, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> There has been a universal outcry on many issues (e.g. guns after mass shootings) but nothing has changed. Why do you think this will be any different?
> 
> The biggest reason for bankruptcy prior to the ACA was unpaid medical costs.



I am not interested in a political debate here but your example is flawed, your definition of universal is strictly one sided. I will leave it at that.

I will add I have no dog in any fight on ACA. I only stated that I believed certain pieces would never be rolled back because they are now universally excepted. Just an opinion not meant to be a needle in anyone’s eye or a political view.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 1, 2019)

turkel said:


> I am not interested in a political debate here but your example is flawed, your definition of universal is strictly one sided. I will leave it at that.



The fact you accept that ACA provisions are *Universally* agreed upon and therefore will be protected speaks volumes. Suggest you stop wasting your time reading Fakebook news stream filter bubbles and get an outside perspective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

(I have stopped using Fakebook and added tracking blockers to my searches for this reason...)


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## Makai Guy (Nov 1, 2019)

Ahem..  let's leave the contentious issues alone, shall we?


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## turkel (Nov 1, 2019)

This is a nice thread on retirement plans and travel, let’s get back to that topic please.


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## joestein (Nov 1, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.



My wife thinks that she will get a job at Starbucks to have some spending money.  I told her she is crazy.  At even $20/hr it doesnt pay when it will taxed at higher bracket on top of our income.   I however would consider a consulting gig with my current firm.   Since they would probably pay me on 1099 basis, it would have to be at 2X my hourly salary rate to make sense.  Of course you know what they say about best laid plans.


----------



## Luanne (Nov 1, 2019)

joestein said:


> My wife thinks that she will get a job at Starbucks to have some spending money.  I told her she is crazy.  At even $20/hr it doesnt pay when it will taxed at higher bracket on top of our income.   I however would consider a consulting gig with my current firm.   Since they would probably pay me on 1099 basis, it would have to be at 2X my hourly salary rate to make sense.  Of course you know what they say about best laid plans.


My plan was to get a job at Chico's because I love their clothing.  And funny thing, I was offered a job there when I wasn't even looking.  I was in the store shopping and was talking to one of the area managers.  I thought about it for about a minute, then decided "No".


----------



## Passepartout (Nov 1, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.


I have not drawn a paycheck in the 10+ years since I retired. We have traveled. I took on being chief cook- which is fine as I get to eat what I like. DW and I have had some health challenges that have forced her to slow down, but she's back to helping clients, mostly long term people whose families she has provided legal work to for years.

Life has been very good and we stay active. I walk, sing in a local chorale. DW plays horn in the symphony, paints and makes jewelry. We travel- not as actively as we once did, but still a half dozen or more cruises, TS vacay's a year and a second home if we get bored.

Jim


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## Sugarcubesea (Nov 1, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> One of the reasons we have not considered retiring is the cost/lack of health care options until we are both 65...What sucks is that I don't work enough hours at the large org that I joined to qualify for health care benefits; they make sure I stay under the threshhold, and my small business can barely afford it.



that is the same thing that keeps us working.  The day we retire from our jobs is the day our healthcare ends. So hitting 65 will be a banner day.


----------



## PcflEZFlng (Nov 1, 2019)

controller1 said:


> I have not worked a paying job since I walked out the door and have turned down two very lucrative short-term (6-8 weeks) assignments in my field of expertise.  Part of retiring is not having work-related stress and IMO as long as I had a work-related responsibility I was going to have work-related stress/anxiety.
> 
> Now I volunteer at our church, an elementary school and a retiree association but I know I can walk away from those at any time if I desire.



Exactly this. After retiring from my full-time job in 2017, largely because of work-related stress, I actually did go back to work part-time last year, for the same employer. I retired *again* in October 2018. The PT work was a nice gig, and it didn't have the stress of the FT job, but even at that, I don't miss it. The volunteer and leisure time that I now enjoy, and not having a boss, is like a dream.


----------



## Sugarcubesea (Nov 1, 2019)

mpumilia said:


> I will tell you, after seeing the Medicare rates for my husband yesterday. Medicare with the supplements are no bargain.
> 
> Example: $135 per month for Part B; $210 per month for Part G; $14.00 per month for part D (cheapest plan). Then Part B has a $185 per year deductible; Part A has a $1364 per BENEFIT PERIOD- NOT ANNUAL- deductible. If you're a couple, double that.
> 
> ...




I will only pay $60 per month to cover our whole family in 2020 in the HSA plan.  Our company has 3 plans with the HSA being the least expensive.  I’m for sure working now till 65


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Nov 1, 2019)

Once our kids finish college, we could retire and pay for healthcare especially if we sold our home in California and moved to Nevada and lived off of the proceeds. However we love our home, and I still enjoy the intellectual stimulation of my encore job even though it doesn't pay well. Not sure what I would do otherwise. Would still bring my business with me because that could be done anywhere, but would probably travel back to where we live today for meetings...so why move?


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 1, 2019)

I'm 55 and hope to retire in 5 years or less from the corporate world. We have a plan that if we can pull it off it will be a life long dream fulfilled and hope it becomes our life in retirement.  We have enough Maui weeks, (12) 2BDRM units in the even years and 10 during odd years, and HHI weeks (8) that the plan is to  spend 6 weeks in Maui in the winter and 4 weeks in the spring or fall on HHI.   

With the Maui weeks we will stay 6 weeks in either a studio or 1BDRM, have friends and family come a few weeks and then rent the rest.  The LOs will really bring amazing value when we can use and rent them in this way.   

We will look to do the same on HHI for June or Sept.   This will be the culmination of why I did what i did with all the Marriotts I've bought over the years now counting 27.

I've had this dream for sometime but lately I've been wondering how I will feel when the time comes.

*For those that retired from a rewarding career did you end up missing the energy and successes you had?*

*Did you feel differently 3 months, 6 months after you retired?*

In 5 years I really won't need to work for the money and year after year I become more and more tire of the Corp BS so I dream of the day I don't have to deal with the high pressure but at the same time it has been very good to my family so as much as I want this dream retirement I'm wondering if I will miss what is now a big part of my life where I'm very successful and not want to be retired but only realize this 3 months after I do retire.

*Any regrets?*


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## controller1 (Nov 1, 2019)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm 55 and hope to retire in 5 years or less from the corporate world. We have a plan that if we can pull it off it will be a life long dream fulfilled and hope it becomes our life in retirement.  We have enough Maui weeks, (12) 2BDRM units in the even years and 10 during odd years, and HHI weeks (8) that the plan is to  spend 6 weeks in Maui in the winter and 4 weeks in the spring or fall on HHI.
> 
> With the Maui weeks we will stay 6 weeks in either a studio or 1BDRM, have friends and family come a few weeks and then rent the rest.  The LOs will really bring amazing value when we can use and rent them in this way.
> 
> ...




For my first year of retirement I would have the blues on Sunday evening because psychologically I was gearing up for another week of work.  It was nice when those feelings went away.  

Do I miss the energy and successes of my career?  Yes, but that is more than overridden by the time freedom and ability to not have all the things I wanted to do in my personal life have to be done in the evenings or on the weekends.

*NO* regrets!


----------



## VacationForever (Nov 1, 2019)

MOXJO7282 said:


> *For those that retired from a rewarding career did you end up missing the energy and successes you had?*
> 
> *Did you feel differently 3 months, 6 months after you retired?*
> 
> ...


For the longest time, my identity was my career(s) - I had 2 very successful careers in the last 25 years before my retirement, and I was afraid that I would lose my identity when I retired.  It was especially so when some of my closest friends were in top corporate positions and we would get together for dinner once in a while.

I quickly learned that I did not lose my identity when we retired.  I am still the same person as I was.  For a few months I did miss the recognition and perks that came with my work but those were not enough to want to go back to work.  I am very happy to be retired.  The other interesting observation in my interactions with other retirees in my community, whether it is golf, cards or volunteering, many of the retirees had similar illustrious careers.

You will enjoy your retirement.  It is another phase in life and the sooner you retire the longer the time you get to enjoy the things that do not feel like work.


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## Rolltydr (Nov 1, 2019)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm 55 and hope to retire in 5 years or less from the corporate world. We have a plan that if we can pull it off it will be a life long dream fulfilled and hope it becomes our life in retirement.  We have enough Maui weeks, (12) 2BDRM units in the even years and 10 during odd years, and HHI weeks (8) that the plan is to  spend 6 weeks in Maui in the winter and 4 weeks in the spring or fall on HHI.
> 
> With the Maui weeks we will stay 6 weeks in either a studio or 1BDRM, have friends and family come a few weeks and then rent the rest.  The LOs will really bring amazing value when we can use and rent them in this way.
> 
> ...



I retired 6 years ago and I have enjoyed it from the minute I walked out of the building for the last time. No regrets whatsoever. My life is more rewarding now than ever. I spend it with my wife and family doing the things we want to do. I don’t miss the pressure at all. I’ve lost weight and got in better shape. My cholesterol is down and I sleep better because I’m not rerunning today in my head or worrying about tomorrow. I know some people retire, don’t like it and then go back to work. I just don’t understand that. I can be very productive on my own. I don’t need a company and a boss for that.






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PcflEZFlng (Nov 1, 2019)

MOXJO7282 said:


> *For those that retired from a rewarding career did you end up missing the energy and successes you had?
> Did you feel differently 3 months, 6 months after you retired?
> Any regrets?*


No.
Nope.
Absolutely not.


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## itradehilton (Nov 1, 2019)

i'm not ready to retire yet, but my first will be anywhere but home during the beginning of a school year. Just to prove I don't have to be at school.


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## Linda74 (Nov 2, 2019)

Fredflintstone said:


> Almost everyone I know who has retired go on their dream trip shortly afterwards.
> 
> In my case, I do plan to retire by 62. It could be later or earlier depending on how I feel about working. Currently, I love what I do but also want to ensure I get in some healthy retirement years to travel too. I have had some friends that retire late and then get sick and die shortly after. I really don’t want that to be me. I know...not my choice.
> 
> ...


I retired at 57, two years after my husband. Our first trip was to


Fredflintstone said:


> Almost everyone I know who has retired go on their dream trip shortly afterwards.
> 
> In my case, I do plan to retire by 62. It could be later or earlier depending on how I feel about working. Currently, I love what I do but also want to ensure I get in some healthy retirement years to travel too. I have had some friends that retire late and then get sick and die shortly after. I really don’t want that to be me. I know...not my choice.
> 
> ...


----------



## Linda74 (Nov 2, 2019)

I retired at 57, two years after my dear husband.  Our first timeshare trip after retirement was to Greece, a week in Rhodes, a week in Crete and some days in Athens.   That was followed by season ski passes in Vermont, a trip to Tuscany and a Mediterranean cruise, and our annual two weeks in PV.  Two years of living like rock stars....and then out of the blue, my 62 year old husband had terminal cancer, right before our daughter’s wedding.  So my advice is:  retire when you can and travel your socks off.  Life is unpredictable.  A few years ago, I met a widowed gentleman who shares my love of travel.  We take several trips a year, always PV but Europe often, especially river cruises.  Have unloaded two of the timeshares as they just don’t work for me as well anymore...and travel (especially by air) is increasingly unpleasant. But am so thankful for timeshares as they allowed us to travel widely with our children....and really fortunate to have been able to travel well into retirement.


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## geist1223 (Nov 2, 2019)

Neither Patti or I have worked a single day since we retired. Patti has several charities with which she is involved - St. Francis Family Shelter, Gardening in the City Park across the Street from our house, and Warming Centers for the Homeless during the Winter. I help with the first two but I do not formally belong.


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## kckaren21 (Nov 2, 2019)

Big Matt said:


> Mary Ann, healthcare insurance is expensive for a number of reasons.  1) all of the medical R&D somehow needs to get paid for.  That's why MRI machines are so expensive and why some drugs are $1000 per dose.  2) Hospitals charge a fortune and then break even (what?).  3) Insurance subsidizes those in poor health by those with good health.  Same with Medicare/Medicaid.  4) Then  there is my favorite......having people pay for things that they don't really need and charging them a fortune.  Like when I _*HAD *_to get custom orthotics that cost $150.
> 
> If everything was a Chinese menu, people would go to doctors and hospitals a lot, lot less.  Maybe people would try to be more healthy too if they new that they had to pay for everything out of pocket like it was 100 years ago.



This has been a very interesting and enjoyable thread!

In the healthcare parts of this thread, no one has mentioned medical sharing plans.

I rec’d my first notice that my health insurance was canceled… 75 days earlier. A rude surprise from my husband’s employer! I was not eligible for Obamacare because it was over 60 days since I had had coverage. I scrambled and ended up choosing a medical sharing plan, which is saving me a lot of money. It was recommended by someone I respect, and a good friend has been on a medical sharing plan for several years and had a good experience. I chose a high deductible plan, and since it is not ACA compliant, I don’t get any wellness visits or tests. So, I signed up for a new concept here where I can go to a particular doctor office (and/or call in to a doctor 24/7) at no additional charge (I also got a blood panel and flu shot free).

For the medical sharing plan I pay monthly ~$250 + $150 for the local doctor, and I am saving $100/month for similar coverage to what I paid before.


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## Luanne (Nov 2, 2019)

kckaren21 said:


> This has been a very interesting and enjoyable thread!
> 
> In the healthcare parts of this thread, no one has mentioned medical sharing plans.
> 
> ...


I've never heard of medical sharing.


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## elaine (Nov 2, 2019)

DH 60 just retired but works 5 days a month at former business, filling in for others, but on his schedule. He's become a maniac for home renov projects. Fine with me. We need 2 kitchen and 5 bathroom renov between our house, retirement home, and now my Moms house! I plan to retire in 2 years at 58. I will probably work a bit on consulting basis. 
On my list: making scrapbooks, online photo albums from shutterfly (never had much time when working with 3 kids-I've got all the photos shoved in a box), reading (I read all day at work--never any real leisure time reading excerpt a few novels), exercising more, learning how to cook (DH is an excellent cook and I never had the time/inclination to learn anything other than basics), and planning out home decor of retirement home (current decor is thrift store and/or beige pieces).
For travel-a big Europe trip EOY and additional US destinations via trading 2 TS. Thinking Pacific NW, SW FL/Keys, Palm Springs/CA, and Hawaii.


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## VacationForever (Nov 2, 2019)

Luanne said:


> I've never heard of medical sharing.


It is actually called health sharing. You can search on the internet for more information @Steve Fatula can elaborate as he is on it.  I have looked at it and after checking with my doctors about its acceptance or not, I decided to still with regular medical insurance.


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## Luanne (Nov 2, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> It is actually called health sharing. You can search on the internet for more information @Steve Fatula can elaborate as he is on it.  I have looked at it and after checking with my doctors about its acceptance or not, I decided to still with regular medical insurance.


I probably never heard of it, or needed to look into it, since I was always covered through my employer, even after retirement, until I reached Medicare age.


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## kckaren21 (Nov 2, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> It is actually called health sharing. You can search on the internet for more information @Steve Fatula can elaborate as he is on it.  I have looked at it and after checking with my doctors about its acceptance or not, I decided to still with regular medical insurance.



Google medical sharing plans for more info. Dave Ramsey recommended one, which I chose. I also looked into RV'er insurance and other travel insurance  for a portable plan, because we plan to travel a lot. There were more options than I expected!


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## Passepartout (Nov 2, 2019)

How is 'medical sharing' different than traditional insurance. With insurance, the premiums collected from healthy subscribers pays the bills of those with claims. Isn't that 'sharing' the risk among a large pool?


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## geekette (Nov 2, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Based on your rationale I assume you also don't by home insurance?
> 
> This is rolling the dice. Costs can easily reach a million or more if something unforeseen occurs. $600/month savings will go nowhere near the ability to cover this - especially if you contract a disease that requires specialists at another hospital that don't "trade chickens."
> 
> ...


Assume anything you want about me.  equating home ins to health ins is loony.  not at all the same.  

Meanwhile, tell me which insurance plan will cover that pricey treatment and at what cost/month and at what point they quit paying.   And then tell me why I should fear devastating illness for myself just because you live in fear?

Next, tell me which people that went bankrupt via med debt that are being bailed out by taxpayers?  You assume a lot of motivations that I don't have.  It's probably best to speak for yourself vs hurl accusations at people guilty of not thinking of things exactly like you do.


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## geekette (Nov 2, 2019)

mpumilia said:


> I have not been employed in over a year now and just like I always said when I did work- "I have no time to work".
> 
> Actually- just living life and dealing with day to day responsibilities is enough work for me. And obviously with just selling our home and moving I have been crazy busy above and beyond what I normally am.
> 
> ...


Mary Ann, your new chapter in life is very exciting!  I agree, you have no time for a job!  Agree, you already have "work" lined up.


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## geekette (Nov 2, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> How is 'medical sharing' different than traditional insurance. With insurance, the premiums collected from healthy subscribers pays the bills of those with claims. Isn't that 'sharing' the risk among a large pool?


Yeah, seems very similar, just smaller pool.  

If my ship comes in, I could see going the Concierge route but I don't think that is in the cards for me.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 2, 2019)

geekette said:


> Assume anything you want about me.  equating home ins to health ins is loony.  not at all the same.
> 
> Meanwhile, tell me which insurance plan will cover that pricey treatment and at what cost/month and at what point they quit paying.   And then tell me why I should fear devastating illness for myself just because you live in fear?
> 
> Next, tell me which people that went bankrupt via med debt that are being bailed out by taxpayers?  You assume a lot of motivations that I don't have.  It's probably best to speak for yourself vs hurl accusations at people guilty of not thinking of things exactly like you do.



I never assumed anything about you. You projected the questions onto yourself. 

It's true that many of those that went bankrupt ended up on public assistance. Sounds like you have an alternative plan to avoid this (Which was the basis of my question: How to avoid bankruptcy/public assistance/wiping out your retirement funds if something catastrophic happens?)

Kaiser covered the more than $1 million for that kid to get well. No hassles. No hidden fees. Honest organization.


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## Passepartout (Nov 2, 2019)

geekette said:


> Yeah, seems very similar, just smaller pool.
> 
> If my ship comes in, I could see going the Concierge route but I don't think that is in the cards for me.


Yep. And by having no preventatives and tests covered by the group and having a high deductible, they sidestep the rules under ACA. It has no appeal to me, but as a 'bridge' while a relatively healthy retiree waits to qualify for Medicare, it might beat no coverage at all.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 2, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> How is 'medical sharing' different than traditional insurance. With insurance, the premiums collected from healthy subscribers pays the bills of those with claims. Isn't that 'sharing' the risk among a large pool?



It's cheaper.


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## VacationForever (Nov 2, 2019)

Health sharing co-op members share similar values for healthy living, and some are affiliated with Christian groups.  Lower administrative costs, healthier members and high deductibles.  When I looked at these plans, they cost $160 to $220 per month.


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## easyrider (Nov 2, 2019)

MOXJO7282 said:


> *For those that retired from a rewarding career did you end up missing the energy and successes you had?*
> 
> *Did you feel differently 3 months, 6 months after you retired?*



Yes. I really missed my business. I started my business in 1980 and was at the top of the game when I quit. I'm still missing it but have found other things to keep me busy. It is odd to me that I find satisfaction in tasks as simple as mowing the lawn. I use to make fun of my father in law after he retired and started gardening. I get it now, lol.

Bill


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## Passepartout (Nov 2, 2019)

mpumilia said:


> It's cheaper.


Non insurance will ALWAYS be cheaper than insurance that actually covers loss.


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## VacationForever (Nov 2, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> Non insurance will ALWAYS be cheaper than insurance that actually covers loss.


Steve and his family had a million dollar claim and the bills were paid by the health share organization.


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## controller1 (Nov 2, 2019)

easyrider said:


> Yes. I really missed my business. I started my business in 1980 and was at the top of the game when I quit. I'm still missing it but have found other things to keep me busy. It is odd to me that I find satisfaction in tasks as simple as mowing the lawn. I use to make fun of my father in law after he retired and started gardening. I get it now, lol.
> 
> Bill



Funny you should say that.  Every few weeks I would take an afternoon off and would be asked what I was going to do.  I would remark "mow the lawn".  People thought I was crazy.  In my field of expertise there were so many decisions that I would make each day that would take 10-20 years before I would know if it had been a good decision.  I received immediate satisfaction from mowing the lawn!


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## geekette (Nov 2, 2019)

controller1 said:


> Funny you should say that.  Every few weeks I would take an afternoon off and would be asked what I was going to do.  I would remark "mow the lawn".  People thought I was crazy.  In my field of expertise there were so many decisions that I would make each day that would take 10-20 years before I would know if it had been a good decision.  I received immediate satisfaction from mowing the lawn!


Similar yet different.  Most of my work product via career was intangible.  I am appreciating hands-on creative arts for getting to see and feel the results of my work.   Lawn and garden care is similar - I can see it and it feels good to make it look good.  Yes, more satisfaction in toiling for my own life than there ever was in a job.


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## DaveNV (Nov 2, 2019)

geekette said:


> Similar yet different.  Most of my work product via career was intangible.  I am appreciating hands-on creative arts for getting to see and feel the results of my work.   Lawn and garden care is similar - I can see it and it feels good to make it look good.  Yes, more satisfaction in toiling for my own life than there ever was in a job.



Im looking forward to retiring just so I _CAN_ take on yardwork and gardening. I have a self-written honey do list of home projects I want to tackle, but that have been too much to want to take on while working full time.

Dave


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> How is 'medical sharing' different than traditional insurance. With insurance, the premiums collected from healthy subscribers pays the bills of those with claims. Isn't that 'sharing' the risk among a large pool?



For profit vs no profit is the main difference. Thus, while coverage differences do exist, sharing is typically way cheaper premium wise. Early last year, two of us had identical rotator cuff surgeries. My friend, with insurance (ACA) was out around 30 grand (including premiums). I, with health sharing, was out $2,500 including premiums for the year. His premiums were vastly higher than mine. But my part of the surgery was $500 (annual deductible and 0% copay after that), and that included physical therapy. I was therefore extremely pleased I did not have an ACA plan. 

Now, that's one example, and people with expensive prescriptions are typically not candidates unless something like GoodRx is cheap for same medications, which happens sometimes. Definitely takes some care to research and figure out. Most things are covered under sharing, but, maintenance prescriptions are the biggest non covered. And that's a non starter for some.


----------



## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> Yep. And by having no preventatives and tests covered by the group and having a high deductible, they sidestep the rules under ACA. It has no appeal to me, but as a 'bridge' while a relatively healthy retiree waits to qualify for Medicare, it might beat no coverage at all.



Hmm, what tests are you speaking of? I've had many tests covered. They are not sidestepping, in fact, they were part of the final law and in the discussion when it was crafted. Perhaps different companies do it differently. 

For me, my choice is/was ~$800/month for far worse ACA coverage, or, just over $200/month for much better coverage. But every situation is different for sure. I have yet to have any situation that was medical and not covered.


----------



## Passepartout (Nov 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Hmm, what tests are you speaking of? I've had many tests covered. They are not sidestepping, in fact, they were part of the final law and in the discussion when it was crafted. Perhaps different companies do it differently.
> 
> For me, my choice is/was ~$800/month for far worse ACA coverage, or, just over $200/month for much better coverage. But every situation is different for sure. I have yet to have any situation that was medical and not covered.


I'm happy that it works for you. I have not needed to check what's available where I live. My Medicare Advantage is in the $200/mo neighborhood and has covered me through heart & lung disease, skin cancers, DWs leukemia & chemo drugs that are $5,000 a month and she'll be on as long as she lives. Mine works for me and apparently you're happy with yours. Keep traveling and enjoy the bounty. Life is good!

Jim


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 2, 2019)

controller1 said:


> Funny you should say that.  Every few weeks I would take an afternoon off and would be asked what I was going to do.  I would remark "mow the lawn".  People thought I was crazy.  In my field of expertise there were so many decisions that I would make each day that would take 10-20 years before I would know if it had been a good decision.  I received immediate satisfaction from mowing the lawn!


I was just saying to a friend that I'm an odd ball and like yard work and have done all my own for 26 years of home ownership. That is all the mowing and trimming, gardening and every leaf picked up over that time.  To me it's work that gets you outside, saves you alot of money and the visual satisfaction of a nicely manicured lawn really is something i enjoy accomplishing. Just in from 3 hours today of backyard clean up.


----------



## Brett (Nov 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> For profit vs no profit is the main difference. Thus, while coverage differences do exist, sharing is typically way cheaper premium wise. Early last year, two of us had identical rotator cuff surgeries. My friend, with insurance (ACA) was out around 30 grand (including premiums). I, with health sharing, was out $2,500 including premiums for the year. His premiums were vastly higher than mine. But my part of the surgery was $500 (annual deductible and 0% copay after that), and that included physical therapy. I was therefore extremely pleased I did not have an ACA plan.
> 
> Now, that's one example, and people with expensive prescriptions are typically not candidates unless something like GoodRx is cheap for same medications, which happens sometimes. Definitely takes some care to research and figure out. Most things are covered under sharing, but, maintenance prescriptions are the biggest non covered. And that's a non starter for some.



actually the difference for religious health sharing ministries is more than "profit"  vs "no profit"

"when it was time to pay the bills, they learned that the products they bought through health care sharing ministry (HCSM) — faith-based co-ops in which members agree to pay one another’s medical bills weren’t insurance at all — and that the cost of their care wasn’t covered."

*https://khn.org/news/sham-sharing-ministries-test-faith-of-patients-and-insurance-regulators/
*


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> I'm happy that it works for you. I have not needed to check what's available where I live. My Medicare Advantage is in the $200/mo neighborhood and has covered me through heart & lung disease, skin cancers, DWs leukemia & chemo drugs that are $5,000 a month and she'll be on as long as she lives. Mine works for me and apparently you're happy with yours. Keep traveling and enjoy the bounty. Life is good!
> 
> Jim



The main use of a sharing or aca plan is pre medicare, was not suggesting it is for Medicare eligible folks. I am not Medicare age yet, and therefore am in need of some type of health insurance. For early retirees who have no company insurance benefits, were self employed, etc., that gap can be very expensive and prevent one from retiring early. It most certainly would have caused me to work longer, instead, I was able to retire well before Medicare age, which definitely makes life good as you mentioned. Those are who my information was intended for, thought you were one of those by your comment.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

Brett said:


> actually the difference for religious health sharing ministries is more than "profit"  vs "no profit"
> 
> "when it was time to pay the bills, they learned that the products they bought through health care sharing ministry (HCSM) — faith-based co-ops in which members agree to pay one another’s medical bills weren’t insurance at all — and that the cost of their care wasn’t covered."
> 
> *https://khn.org/news/sham-sharing-ministries-test-faith-of-patients-and-insurance-regulators/*



i have debunked your information previously. I understand you are very much against this product, that's fine. Keep trying to tell me it doesn't work for me and many others, lol. I feel you do a great dis-service though for those who cannot possibly pay absurd ACA rates.

In this example, an organization claimed it was something it was not. That does not in any way have anything to do with health sharing being bad. It has to do with a company mis-representing itself. I have always maintained the product is not for everyone. But neither is any specific medical plan either. And it's not difficult to find thousands of examples of insurance companies who do not serve their members, deny claims, etc. But that doesn't mean go without insurance either, does it?


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## Brett (Nov 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> i have debunked your information previously. I understand you are very much against this product, that's fine. Keep trying to tell me it doesn't work for me and many others, lol. I feel you do a great dis-service though for those who cannot possibly pay absurd ACA rates.
> 
> In this example, an organization claimed it was something it was not. That does not in any way have anything to do with health sharing being bad. It has to do with a company mis-representing itself. I have always maintained the product is not for everyone. But neither is any specific medical plan either.



the previous "debunking" !!

even the *Wall Street Journal* cautions against religious health sharing
https://www.wsj.com/articles/groups...-drawing-more-membersand-scrutiny-11560177134

.
"Then came the financial shock: about $50,000 in medical bills and it was ineligible for treatment under the ministry’s guidelines."
*https://www.huffpost.com/entry/christian-health-ministry-obamacare_n_5a9d66fee4b0a0ba4ad6754b*


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

Brett said:


> the previous "debunking" !!
> 
> even the *Wall Street Journal* cautions against religious health sharing
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/groups...-drawing-more-membersand-scrutiny-11560177134
> ...



Brett, I understand you have a problem with one of the words in "religious health sharing". As you should realize, there is zero point to saying I have an article that says it's bad, but another has an article that says it is good. Surely you realize this is just like political arguments, no? You are welcome to believe all the bad news you want, I certainly don't mind. It's useful for people to hear competing views of course. There are plenty of counter articles, but it's a pointless exercise. Only bad articles count for you as you want to believe as you do. Unlike you, I have extensive experience and am an actual user too, and, am aware of many folks in various such programs. So, instead of saying I'm right you're wrong, let's just leave it at that.

To me, an almost perfect match is timeshare discussions or "news". You have a very large vocal group of people, media, etc. in this world that say how terrible timeshares are. And, you have many if not most Tuggers who would claim otherwise. You will (almost) never convince the naysayers they are wrong. And they will continue on. But that's ok. They do serve some purpose and hopefully at a minimum cause people to be more vigilant.


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## Brett (Nov 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Brett, I understand you have a problem with one of the words in "religious health sharing". As you should realize, there is zero point to saying I have an article that says it's bad, but another has an article that says it is good. Surely you realize this is just like political arguments, no? You are welcome to believe all the bad news you want, I certainly don't mind. It's useful for people to hear competing views of course. There are plenty of counter articles, but it's a pointless exercise. Only bad articles count for you as you want to believe as you do. Unlike you, I have extensive experience and am an actual user too, and, am aware of many folks in various such programs. So, instead of saying I'm right you're wrong, let's just leave it at that.
> 
> To me, an almost perfect match is timeshare discussions or "news". You have a very large vocal group of people, media, etc. in this world that say how terrible timeshares are. And, you have many if not most Tuggers who would claim otherwise. You will (almost) never convince the naysayers they are wrong. And they will continue on. But that's ok. They do serve some purpose and hopefully at a minimum cause people to be more vigilant.



 ... fake news media ...  "political arguments"   ...   


yes, people should be vigilant   

https://www.wsj.com/articles/groups...-drawing-more-membersand-scrutiny-11560177134
https://khn.org/news/sham-sharing-ministries-test-faith-of-patients-and-insurance-regulators/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/christian-health-ministry-obamacare_n_5a9d66fee4b0a0ba4ad6754b


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## slip (Nov 2, 2019)

After using timeshares over the years, I knew that I would retire to a condo and watch others do the maintenance and yard work while I watch from the lanai.


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## bogey21 (Nov 2, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> Health sharing co-op members share similar values for healthy living, and some are affiliated with Christian groups.  Lower administrative costs, healthier members and high deductibles.  When I looked at these plans, they cost $160 to $220 per month.



My ex-wife came with a Son age 5 who lived with us most of the 20 years we were married.  He is now roughly 50 years old, doesn't work and lives with her.  Over the years I have paid for Health Insurance for him.  The cost of insurance for him is getting so expensive I am considering buying a "Catastrophic Coverage" Policy from one of these Co-Ops, a well rated one.  They offer $5,000 and $10,000 deductible policies that pay either 70% or 80% on everything above the deductible at a cost of somewhere around $200 to $250 per month.  I need to dig into this more before I pull the trigger but there is a chance I will.  I'm sure some of you will ask why I am willing to do this.  The answer is simple.  Number One is that because he has no income ObamaCare forces him into Medicaid which in their State in next to worthless.  And Second, I can easily afford it and it helps me maintain a good relationship with my ex-wife, the Mother of our 3 kids...

George


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 2, 2019)

I wonder if it would be cheaper to buy an annual travel policy for around $600/year and travel continuously around the U.S. in Timeshares, mobile homes, or stay at your second home? Kind of like those people who live on cruise ships that find it cheaper than care facilities. I know you have to be a certain number of miles away from your primary home, but I wonder if it excludes second homes or mobile homes?  If you are retired, there is no reason to stay at home.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

Brett said:


> yes, people should be vigilant



On this we agree, people should take care when making major decisions. As they should for any health insurance company they might use, and possibly a little extra. When a semi major Texas HMO went bankrupt (from memory) about 20? years ago, we had nothing but trouble from bill collectors, etc. trying to get us to pay what they did not and were obligated to pay. Your other words are not accurate, I never employed the term fake news. Biased news perhaps or maybe misleading headline news, or maybe cherry picked news, or maybe even accurate news for a specific outlier where someone messed up, fake, certainly not! I seriously doubt any specific example was made up. But I will not start posting pro articles, they are simple to find from a wide variety of publications from all persuasions. I find such discussions useless, they have infected social media for years now.

Your logic is to gloss over anything that anyone says like they paid my bill, etc. I presume that means you agree and are not disputing that. I seriously doubt you would say my friend who paid around 30 times my out of pocket for the same surgery from the same doctor at the same hospital and at the same PT office mind you, made the better choice? I assume you agree that they do help some people (at a minimum me, perhaps I am special somehow). I presume you would agree that having no insurance is likely a bad choice for the most part. I assume you would agree people with ACA insurance or pre ACA insurance have had claims denied, and articles written about it. And I assume you agree with every other point I have made that you have not explicitly countered.

I of course would agree there are bad examples as well. I will just continue to point out, you have zero experience in this area, an outsider. But, this means you are reflective of a view some or many hold. I do appreciate you are at least pointing out nothing in healthcare is simple, and when making a major change, definitely talk to people, etc.

I almost get the impression you might think I work for one of those companies, or sell, or whatever lol. Several here on TUG have met me in person, including 2 on my last trip. I think you will find I am just a person who admittedly is passionate about saving money, who actually really does do well with a health sharing company. But at a minimum, please note I have repeatedly agreed it's not for everyone.


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## VacationForever (Nov 2, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I wonder if it would be cheaper to buy an annual travel policy for around $600/year and travel continuously around the U.S. in Timeshares, mobile homes, or stay at your second home? Kind of like those people who live on cruise ships that find it cheaper than care facilities. I know you have to be a certain number of miles away from your primary home, but I wonder if it excludes second homes or mobile homes?  If you are retired, there is no reason to stay at home.


Most travel insurance policies limit travel up to 30 days continuous.


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## VacationForever (Nov 2, 2019)

Brett said:


> ... fake news media ...  "political arguments"   ...
> yes, people should be vigilant


I have met Steve and his wife.  They are real people and Steve is sharing his experience with Health Sharing.  You need to get over your personal bias and accept that there are legitimate health share organizations.  Everyone needs to evaluate what works for them and be vigilant in whatever they select.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> I have met Steve and his wife.  They are real people and Steve is sharing his experience with Health Sharing.  You need to get over your personal bias and accept that there are legitimate health share organizations.  Everyone needs to evaluate what works for them and be vigilant in whatever they select.



Yep, you were one of them (we'll be @ DSV Jan30-Feb14, you?). At Marco, met Steven Ting and Superchief (Bill). Met others as well.

I do get overly passionate about being cheap at times. Ok, most of the time. And I do like to think out of the box many times. But I try not to unless someone asks something, lol.

Ok, I'll edit to state we found VacationForever (love that name on so many levels) to be a very intelligent person on a wide variety of topics. We enjoyed meeting you guys. No clue if you guys have the same anything quite honestly, and couldn't care less. It's about people. SuperChief was very good to talk to and informative on some timeshare issues, and Steven we had a little less time with, but, he was super nice and generous too. Thanks Steven!


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## VacationForever (Nov 2, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Yep, you were one of them (we'll be @ DSV Jan30-Feb14, you?). At Marco, met Steven Ting and Superchief (I think Rob?). Met others as well.
> 
> I do get overly passionate about being cheap at times. Ok, most of the time. And I do like to think out of the box many times. But I try not to unless someone asks something, lol.


We will be at DSV immediately after Thanksgiving for 2 weeks.  We just decided that we would like to be there again around the same time frame when you will be there.  We are late in making the decision and there are no 2BR available at DSV. We have gone ahead and try Shadow Ridge and it is in mid-Jan.  We will do an ePlus if another 2BR pops up towards the end of January.


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> We will be at DSV immediately after Thanksgiving for 2 weeks.  We just decided that we would like to be there again around the same time frame where you will be.  We are late in making the decision and there are no 2BR available at DSV I.  There is one week available at DSV II and we are trying to decide to take it or not.



It's quite possible more will come up, wouldn't give up yet. We're actually at Shadow Ridge the first 4 nights. That would be great if we could meet again!


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## Steve Fatula (Nov 2, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I wonder if it would be cheaper to buy an annual travel policy for around $600/year and travel continuously around the U.S. in Timeshares, mobile homes, or stay at your second home? Kind of like those people who live on cruise ships that find it cheaper than care facilities. I know you have to be a certain number of miles away from your primary home, but I wonder if it excludes second homes or mobile homes?  If you are retired, there is no reason to stay at home.



There's SOME reason (at least for us) to stay at home at least sometimes. People we know who live here, relatives, hobbies that necessitate being here, and some others come to mind. But yeah, it's not awful! We built our home to be what we always wanted, and our final home. It has features we greatly enjoy and would be very difficult to replicate like our home theater room (not name only....). Not for everyone for sure, and I doubt the things we have done with our home would make it easy to sell. But that's ok, don't care. I enjoy working outside on the property, which again is not what everyone wants to do but it is me. 

But I get the meaning here. It was enjoyable traveling wide and far this year. But since we didn't really stay anywhere for too long, it was also hard, the constant traveling. That's likely different than what you are saying. We have an even dozen resorts this year, most widely separated. We enjoy the non US traveling while we still can.


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## Brett (Nov 3, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> I have met Steve and his wife.  They are real people and Steve is sharing his experience with Health Sharing.  You need to get over your personal bias and accept that there are legitimate health share organizations.  Everyone needs to evaluate what works for them and be vigilant in whatever they select.



I'm a real person too !

I was pointing out that the differences between religious health sharing ministries and health insurance are not simply "profit" vs "non-profit" differences.  And equating it to timeshares - I'm not sure about that analogy.
But if you think that is a personal bias I am sorry - but yes, I suppose we can all agree that everyone needs to be vigilant


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## tomt73 (Nov 3, 2019)

Fredflintstone said:


> Almost everyone I know who has retired go on their dream trip shortly afterwards.
> 
> Our first trip after my retirement was five months long! The day I retired (at 60, BTW) we closed on the sale of our 24-year-residence house. Over the next five months, we traveled to and stayed with family, fraternity brothers, friends, and several timeshares as we made our way from upstate New York across the nation (south to Florida, then west) toward our under-construction retirement home in New Mexico. Along the way, we jetted around for a couple of weddings, visited wineries in Virginia, bought new furniture in High Point, NC, saw the Marines assault the beaches of Jacksonville, Florida, joined my parents for what became my mother's last Thanksgiving, took a swing lesson at the World Golf Hall of Fame, and saw how grand and diverse the American land really is.
> 
> Nearly nine years later, I sometimes feel like we're still on that first trip into retirement. The scenery and culture of New Mexico are unlike any other state, and our forays into ski country and around the West are simply side trips on our long, strange journey.


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## easyrider (Nov 3, 2019)

DaveNW said:


> Im looking forward to retiring just so I _CAN_ take on yardwork and gardening. I have a self-written honey do list of home projects I want to tackle, but that have been too much to want to take on while working full time.
> 
> Dave




One of our properties was my old construction yard. The goat heads took over the entire acre. The EPA will not let me burn these so I planted grass. I use a riding lawn mower on this property and figured out how to leave patterns. Just stripes for now but I think I could make anything if I used a combination of the riding mower, walk behind mower and weed eater. I haven't been bored enough to try this yet, lol.

I actually felt I was working harder in retirement than in real life but the reality is when you start at 10 am and quit at 2 pm things take longer to complete. 

Bill


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## senorak (Nov 3, 2019)

I recently retired from teaching, (after the '18-19 school year), in June.  My husband and I had a "summer vacation" planned for San Francisco soon after the school year ended.  (It would be his first trip there in over 30 years.  I try to get there at least once a year.)  I didn't really consider that my "retirement trip" bc for me, it was still the traditional "summer break".  My first official retirement trip was taken the end of August/beginning of Sept, (when the first official start of the '19-20 school year began).  I was very emotional not be "going back to work" after more than 33 years of teaching.  So....when a last minute exchange to my favorite city of San Francisco popped up, I booked it!  I went alone, (as DH is still working full time).  As I had hoped....visiting my favorite city, (when less crowded), was just what I needed.  
I visited the "Legion of Honor" museum, which I hadn't been to in years.  Being a French/Spanish teacher, this was perfect, since many of the works of art are from those artists.  Plus, the views from the walk along the "Land's End" trail were just spectacular!!!  Yes, I still teared up when I passed local schools,  (especially my "favorite spot" in Mission Dolores Park), but I enjoyed visiting the city at a time when in the past, I had been unable to do so....due to working.  
I do plan to travel more often, (other than summer/holiday breaks), but as others have posted.....my husband is still working FT, and we have 3 dogs.  ***I also should mention that not only did I retire.....but we became true "empty nesters" as our oldest married, (he had been living w/ fiancee/wife for several years), youngest graduated college & moved out to work in Philly, and our daughter who had lived at home since graduating college 2 years ago, moved in with her boyfriend.  These are all very positive events.....but I'm still trying to adjust to my "new normal".***

Deb


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## mas (Nov 3, 2019)

I retired in Jan. 2008, I am 67 and so is my wife. I am somewhat of a bike (non motorized) enthusiast and am a member of a senior bike club in our area. I have done quite a few bike trips with a company called VBT mostly in Europe but world wide. My wife is not a bike enthusiast and not a fan of long plane rides. Having said that I did manage to talk her into coming with me on the current trip to China with another travel company called OAT ( overseas adventure travel). We are currently in Shanghai where the sun is shining brightly and the temp is a comfortable 70 degrees. I already have two more OAT trips planned, one for Nepal-Bhutan and the other for Egypt-Jordan. Gotta do these things while you still can ☺. We are fortunate that we are both physically and financially able to afford these types of trips.

We use our timeshares to winter in Phoenix/California and Florida. Life in retirement is good!


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## Passepartout (Nov 3, 2019)

mas said:


> Having said that I did manage to talk her into coming with me on the current trip to China with another travel company called OAT ( overseas adventure travel). We are currently in Shanghai where the sun is shining brightly and the temp is a comfortable 70 degrees. I already have two more OAT trips planned, one for Nepal-Bhutan and the other for Egypt-Jordan. Gotta do these things while you still can ☺. We are fortunate that we are both physically and financially able to afford these types of trips!


Glad you are well! We have been on a few OAT trips as well, and they ae probably our favorite  group travel trips- though like all in this genre, you can only go at the pace of the slowest guest. Anymore that's likely to be US.

Later. . . . Jim


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## joestein (Nov 4, 2019)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I'm 55 and hope to retire in 5 years or less from the corporate world. We have a plan that if we can pull it off it will be a life long dream fulfilled and hope it becomes our life in retirement.  We have enough Maui weeks, (12) 2BDRM units in the even years and 10 during odd years, and HHI weeks (8) that the plan is to  spend 6 weeks in Maui in the winter and 4 weeks in the spring or fall on HHI.
> 
> With the Maui weeks we will stay 6 weeks in either a studio or 1BDRM, have friends and family come a few weeks and then rent the rest.  The LOs will really bring amazing value when we can use and rent them in this way.
> 
> ...



Having all those weeks to live in Hawaii sounds great.   Isn't the maintenance a bit overwhelming?     How does paying the maintenance compare with owning a 2nd residence.    I am thinking that there is little to no investment in the TS, but the annual maintenance might be higher in cost than owning a condo.  Of course with the condo there is an intial investment but also an exit value.  Very curious.

Joe


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## jd2601 (Nov 4, 2019)

"I have done quite a few bike trips with a company called VBT mostly in Europe but world wide."

I have done the VBT bicycle tours also.  I really enjoyed their tours.  I have only done the US tours mainly in Vermont.  They do a great job!


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## pittle (Nov 4, 2019)

When I retired December 31, 2001, we moved to our condo at the Lake of the Ozarks, but on February 1 - we flew to Acapulco and spent a month at the Mayan Palace there.  It was an awesome escape from the cold in central Missouri.  We had often done 2 weeks in February before retirement, but the month was awesome! For the next 6 years we went to one of the Mayan Palace or Grand Mayans for the month of February.  In 2007, we moved to AZ and did go to Mazatlan in February 2008, but the temps there were pretty much the same as the ones in Phoenix, so we now go somewhere cooler in the summer and do 2-3 weeks in Puerto Vallarta in November.  Our family loves to go for Thanksgiving there.


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## BigRedOne (Nov 4, 2019)

I'm retireing at the end of the year and have a cruise out of New Orleans booked.  Then I'll start the next chapter in my life at age 66.


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## bluehende (Nov 4, 2019)

joestein said:


> Having all those weeks to live in Hawaii sounds great.   Isn't the maintenance a bit overwhelming?     How does paying the maintenance compare with owning a 2nd residence.    I am thinking that there is little to no investment in the TS, but the annual maintenance might be higher in cost than owning a condo.  Of course with the condo there is an intial investment but also an exit value.  Very curious.
> 
> Joe



We owned a beach house.  By beach house we mean a house a couple miles back.  Entrance and exit costs and values are hard to quantify.  You lose the time value of the cash used for the house and hope the increase in value is better than other investments.  With closing costs both ways that would be a crap shoot.  Look at our house.  If it were on the beach I would have beaten the markets by a little.  Where we were the markets beat it over 30 yrs easily.  Our house had well septic and cheap taxes.  With this we certainly owned for far less than maintenance fees would have been.  However my timeshare has never called me to tell me I have a branch sticking out of the roof or the house has been broken into (a real problem with seasonal homes).  My best guess is that if you enjoy tinkering around the house then having 2 is worth it.  To me those are chores so spend the money and enjoy your time at your timeshares with no stress.

There are 100 other factors that may or may not apply to you.  My parents moved into the house so we are happy with our decision.  When they passed it became more of a burden.


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## Sugarcubesea (Nov 4, 2019)

isisdave said:


> We retired in early 2015 at 66-ish [delayed entirely by cost of health insurance], and ran away.  https://seniorgapyear.wordpress.com/  We're currently on a 2-week drive around New Zealand after cruising here. There'll be pics on the blog in about three weeks.
> 
> We still have a house, but its days are numbered.



I totally get the delaying retirement.  I’m monitoring my investments and if I don’t hit my number that I need I might have to stay till 66.


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## Sugarcubesea (Nov 4, 2019)

SmileLynn said:


> Jan 1, 2015, just turning 64, DH retired after 42 1/2 years. 7 days later we were in Kauai for 13 weeks. It was a hard decision to retire being 8 12 years younger, but after DH was diagnosed with Parkinsons Disease a few years prior, we didnt know how well we could travel if we waited 9 more years. So we had a plan. Travel now, take pictures, and relive the memoreis when we no longer could travel. Fortunately, we were offered good health insurance as part of his retirement  package for less than $500/mo combined.
> We are Wyndham owners and visited 56 of their properities since retirement. The memories piled up and we met so many wonderful Wyndham owners and Tuggers! The places were great but the people were outstanding! We looked forward to meeting up with different couples all over the country. We attended the annual Wyndham meetings and the annual Tugger get togethers in January in Orlando.
> Thanksgiving Day 2018, DH unexpectedly passed away, not from PD, but a pulmonary embolism. Its been a rough year. I never thought Id be a widow before 60. I dont know what I would have done without the wonderful friends we made in those 3 3/4 years. They picked me up & put me back in motion instead of letting me become dormant this past winter in Iowa and the rest of the year.
> So... dont wait, plan that vacation/retirement and go at it with gusto and no regrets! Who knows what tomorrow brings.
> Oh, by the way, Ill be at the Annual Wyndham meeting in Austin and the TUG get together in Orlando in January. Introduce yourself. I love meeting new people!



your post is inspiring me to figure out how I can save more so I can retire at 65 as life is a gift an no one knows when that gift goes alway.  

I’m so sorry for your loss.


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## Makai Guy (Nov 4, 2019)

Sugarcubesea said:


> life is a gift an no one knows when that gift goes alway.


So true.  I'm now of an age where the end of life is no longer such an abstract concept.


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## Passepartout (Nov 4, 2019)

Makai Guy said:


> So true.  I'm now of an age where the end of life is no longer such an abstract concept.


True indeed. That vow we took, 'til death do us part', has deeper meaning, like, which.of us will spend some time alone? It's all a little discomforting. Not something to dwell on, but to be prepared for to the extent possible.


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## Rolltydr (Nov 4, 2019)

Jason Isbell has a great song “If we were Vampires” about that very subject. If you haven’t heard it, I highly recommend it. It’s a great song about love.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Passepartout (Nov 4, 2019)

Rolltydr said:


> Jason Isbell has a great song “If we were Vampires” about that very subject. If you haven’t heard it, I highly recommend it. It’s a great song about love.


One of my VERY favorites! Here it is from Austin City Limits: 



Tears running down my cheeks. Listen to it with a loved one.

Jim


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## geekette (Nov 4, 2019)

easyrider said:


> One of our properties was my old construction yard. The goat heads took over the entire acre. The EPA will not let me burn these so I planted grass. I use a riding lawn mower on this property and figured out how to leave patterns. Just stripes for now but I think I could make anything if I used a combination of the riding mower, walk behind mower and weed eater. I haven't been bored enough to try this yet, lol.
> 
> I actually felt I was working harder in retirement than in real life but the reality is when you start at 10 am and quit at 2 pm things take longer to complete.
> 
> Bill


I definitely like the work hours better!


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## BarbmC (Nov 5, 2019)

Next year I will turn 60 - hoping to retire at 65, my husband is 10 years older than me - and I'd like us to travel while we still can!  On the list, Hawaii (I was there 35 years ago on my honeymoon with my ex husband) Europe - including a river cruise, Panama Canal Cruise, Alaska Cruise with my kids and grandkids.  I could go on and on - hoping that I can retire then


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## Fredflintstone (Nov 5, 2019)

joestein said:


> Having all those weeks to live in Hawaii sounds great.   Isn't the maintenance a bit overwhelming?     How does paying the maintenance compare with owning a 2nd residence.    I am thinking that there is little to no investment in the TS, but the annual maintenance might be higher in cost than owning a condo.  Of course with the condo there is an intial investment but also an exit value.  Very curious.
> 
> Joe



Personally, Joe, I think buying a condo is better IF that’s the place you want to be at. Yes, Hawaii is super expensive in many areas, but there are a few gems left that are still affordable. As an example @slip bought a beautiful condo on Molokai and actually lives on Oahu after making a job transfer from WI. He, in my opinion bought right. Just for fun, I looked at what the rent is on Molokai on Airbnb and it averages to 120 a night so slip could rent it out if he ever wanted to.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Passepartout (Nov 5, 2019)

BarbmC said:


> Next year I will turn 60 - hoping to retire at 65, my husband is 10 years older than me - and I'd like us to travel while we still can!  On the list, Hawaii (I was there 35 years ago on my honeymoon with my ex husband) Europe - including a river cruise, Panama Canal Cruise, Alaska Cruise with my kids and grandkids.  I could go on and on - hoping that I can retire then


BarbmC, I'd hope that you can perhaps fulfill at least some of those Bucket List items before you retire. You don't say, but when you are 65 and dealing with all those 'age 65' items, retirement, Medicare and all, that 75 y.o. guy you want to share your travels with may be slowing down. Only you know your exact situation, but my teeny tiny bit of advice is. . . DON'T WAIT! You won't regret it.

Jim


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## Fredflintstone (Nov 5, 2019)

Sugarcubesea said:


> your post is inspiring me to figure out how I can save more so I can retire at 65 as life is a gift an no one knows when that gift goes alway.
> 
> I’m so sorry for your loss.



You are so right. The one thing you cannot buy is more time. I have seen so many folks work hard all their lives, save and dream of a beautiful retirement. They keep delaying it to get just a few more dollars. Then...time is up and their kids feast on the money they worked so hard to accumulate to fulfill their dreams.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BarbmC (Nov 5, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> BarbmC, I'd hope that you can perhaps fulfill at least some of those Bucket List items before you retire. You don't say, but when you are 65 and dealing with all those 'age 65' items, retirement, Medicare and all, that 75 y.o. guy you want to share your travels with may be slowing down. Only you know your exact situation, but my teeny tiny bit of advice is. . . DON'T WAIT! You won't regret it.
> 
> Jim


Agree Jim!  We've been together 7 years, married for 2!  We have already been on some major trips AND became timeshare owners.  I love to travel, and before me, he didnt travel much - but has really come to love it too!!


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## slip (Nov 5, 2019)

Fredflintstone said:


> Personally, Joe, I think buying a condo is better IF that’s the place you want to be at. Yes, Hawaii is super expensive in many areas, but there are a few gems left that are still affordable. As an example @slip bought a beautiful condo on Molokai and actually lives on Oahu after making a job transfer from WI. He, in my opinion bought right. Just for fun, I looked at what the rent is on Molokai on Airbnb and it averages to 120 a night so slip could rent it out if he ever wanted to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks, and yes, we do rent it out. I get between $100 and $125 a night.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 6, 2019)

joestein said:


> Having all those weeks to live in Hawaii sounds great.   Isn't the maintenance a bit overwhelming?     How does paying the maintenance compare with owning a 2nd residence.    I am thinking that there is little to no investment in the TS, but the annual maintenance might be higher in cost than owning a condo.  Of course with the condo there is an intial investment but also an exit value.  Very curious.
> 
> Joe


For the 1st time my MFs for all of our Marriott weeks exceeds $50k this year but the rental income exceeds MFs by 2X+ for my Maui weeks and my other weeks all have positive profit margins so the MFs are actually more than just manageable but profitable. 

I really can't compare what I do to owning a 2nd residence because first off I could never afford even a down payment for a 2nd residence on Kaanapali Beach, or waterfront on Hilton Head Island, nor any of the other locations our amazing Marriott resorts we own are on.  What is unique about the 2BDRM LOs we own is we could rent a portion of my units and actually stay for free or even put money in my pocket. I'm still doing the calculations but depending on what we stay in we could stay in a studio for free for 8 weeks, rent the rest of our intervals and still put a few $1000 above our MFs in our pocket so that will be pretty amazing if I can pull it off in a few years.

Not sure what you mean about Maui TSs having no investment because I've spent a considerable amount of money for the 12 even weeks and 10 odd usage periods we have (8 annual, 4 EY, 2OY) but again that is much cheaper than buying a whole unit.  What is interesting is I actually used different major bank's money to fund all of my TS purchases early on when I didn't have 2 nickels to rub together by using revolving free bank transfers and 0% interest credit cards something that would be hard to duplicate today with the balance transfer fees they charge now and something you could never do with a 2nd residence.  Wouldn't have more than few TSs now if I didn't use the Bank's money because I certainly didn't have the money I spent to create our portfolio but had the ingenuity and the will and the rest is history. 

We purchased our Maui units over 18 years with only 2 being direct from Marriott.  I've done the math to compare what we've paid ($276k - doesn't include incentives we received so actually overall spend was less) to what I think the current value is ($216k - very conservative) so on the surface there isn't the appreciation you see in Real Estate but really if you remove the 2 I bought direct at $85k total back in 2002 there is some appreciation when you buy good resale deals and with the rental income being so  good it is like owning an OF property on Kaanapali.

And a huge added bonus of the major MFs fees is every year by just paying my MFs we get 300k in Bonvoy points which we convert into more free travel.  

Different than owning a 2nd residence but in some ways the same.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 6, 2019)

Fredflintstone said:


> Personally, Joe, I think buying a condo is better IF that’s the place you want to be at. Yes, Hawaii is super expensive in many areas, but there are a few gems left that are still affordable. As an example @slip bought a beautiful condo on Molokai and actually lives on Oahu after making a job transfer from WI. He, in my opinion bought right. Just for fun, I looked at what the rent is on Molokai on Airbnb and it averages to 120 a night so slip could rent it out if he ever wanted to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly, buying anything similar to what we enjoy would be well beyond what something on Molokai costs and while what slip is doing is inspiring but not something we would want because we like being on the best beach with resort like pools and amenities in areas with a good amount of activity so what we do is perfect for us and really no down side because I make a nice profit from my portfolio and get multiple free trips along the way. Again what I do is different than owning a 2nd residence and really something very hard to duplicate without spending millions if 2nd residence was the goal.


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## joestein (Nov 6, 2019)

Second Residence is my goal.  I think I will probably live in FL or Las Vegas for my primary residence.   But I will want to get away for the Summer when it is too hot.  I have thought about a secondary residence, but maybe a bunch of timeshares might be the way to go.    I am curious how the costs would work out for each.

Of course, where my kids end up will be a factor.  

Joe


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## clifffaith (Nov 6, 2019)

presley said:


> I'm curious if those of you who are retired really don't work at all?
> 
> It may be different for us, because we have a business, but we cannot imagine ever not working at all. My husband has scaled down and he thinks that when he does "retire", he will work about half time. His long term plan is to take a full week off each quarter and a long weekend per month, but never close his business and stop working.



We sort of retired before we retired. We'd go away for up to three weeks at a time, just checking the answering machine once a day. Stopped all advertising except phone book (which pulled a number we hadn't advertised since 1999 out of their asses last year; luckily it was still available since I'd only disconnected it and stopped the call forwarding only two years prior). Each "milestone" that came up we'd decide "do we want to register the truck again? Yes, then we are still in business". "Do we want to renew our bond again? Yes, I guess we are still working". Then this time last year when we asked ourselves "Do we want to renew our Contractor's License?" The answer was NO. By the end of the following month I got our customer who was still painting to pay us, gave her our home phone number in anticipation of turning the phones off, and by the end of the year we were done. Don't miss it in the least, but wish the bi-weekly dreams of measuring and showing fabric samples would stop!


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## Bxian (Nov 8, 2019)

Somewhat late to the party here..I will be 64 in January and plan to cut back to semi-retired status as of March 1st.  It will be interesting since I am a lawyer with long-time clients and can't totally walk away. However, after losing 3 friends in the past 2 years, I realized that I need to take more time for myself and my husband and started strategizing my exit plan. 
Right now, we are at our beloved home timeshare where we have enjoyed 2 weeks of beautiful weather, some nice meals out, a couple of movies and ....way too much work and work check-in for me.  I long for the day when I won't have to check my e-mails multiple times per day.  About the only way for me to totally escape is to go on cruises.  We return to our timeshare for 2 weeks in January, and then have a Panama Canal cruise planned for March, a Mediterranean cruise planned for late fall, and a 27 day cruise from Singapore to Tokyo planned for January of  2021.  
I plan to gradually transition clients to my colleagues over the next year.  I am really looking forward to ending my commute, which is more than an hour each way.  Getting rid of the commute alone will give me an extra day's worth of hours each week.  I told my husband that in my first week home, I plan on staying in my sweats and binge-watching many of the tv shows that I hear people talking about so that I can stop being culturally illiterate


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## klpca (Nov 9, 2019)

Bxian said:


> Somewhat late to the party here..I will be 64 in January and plan to cut back to semi-retired status as of March 1st.  It will be interesting since I am a lawyer with long-time clients and can't totally walk away. However, after losing 3 friends in the past 2 years, I realized that I need to take more time for myself and my husband and started strategizing my exit plan.
> Right now, we are at our beloved home timeshare where we have enjoyed 2 weeks of beautiful weather, some nice meals out, a couple of movies and ....way too much work and work check-in for me.  I long for the day when I won't have to check my e-mails multiple times per day.  About the only way for me to totally escape is to go on cruises.  We return to our timeshare for 2 weeks in January, and then have a Panama Canal cruise planned for March, a Mediterranean cruise planned for late fall, and a 27 day cruise from Singapore to Tokyo planned for January of  2021.
> I plan to gradually transition clients to my colleagues over the next year.  I am really looking forward to ending my commute, which is more than an hour each way.  Getting rid of the commute alone will give me an extra day's worth of hours each week.  I told my husband that in my first week home, I plan on staying in my sweats and binge-watching many of the tv shows that I hear people talking about so that I can stop being culturally illiterate


My boss was on a cruise this week. Checked his email every day. I had easy internet access all over France. You just can't get away from it anymore.


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## WinniWoman (Nov 9, 2019)

Bxian said:


> Somewhat late to the party here..I will be 64 in January and plan to cut back to semi-retired status as of March 1st.  It will be interesting since I am a lawyer with long-time clients and can't totally walk away. However, after losing 3 friends in the past 2 years, I realized that I need to take more time for myself and my husband and started strategizing my exit plan.
> Right now, we are at our beloved home timeshare where we have enjoyed 2 weeks of beautiful weather, some nice meals out, a couple of movies and ....way too much work and work check-in for me.  I long for the day when I won't have to check my e-mails multiple times per day.  About the only way for me to totally escape is to go on cruises.  We return to our timeshare for 2 weeks in January, and then have a Panama Canal cruise planned for March, a Mediterranean cruise planned for late fall, and a 27 day cruise from Singapore to Tokyo planned for January of  2021.
> I plan to gradually transition clients to my colleagues over the next year.  I am really looking forward to ending my commute, which is more than an hour each way.  Getting rid of the commute alone will give me an extra day's worth of hours each week.  I told my husband that in my first week home, I plan on staying in my sweats and binge-watching many of the tv shows that I hear people talking about so that I can stop being culturally illiterate



Sounds like you have a good plan.

My husband is 65 and one of the big reasons I supported him retiring sooner than planned (at 67 so as to keep health insurance for me) was the commute with the winter coming up. Very wearing.

Yeah- he could work from home on bad storm days but it was less than ideal as he does not have his files or a work phone at home. Also- the job went from too crazy busy to a major slowdown and boring. The company made more changes and there were recently some layoffs and consolidations. We were hoping he would be one of them so as to maybe get a little severance pay, but he wasn't that lucky- lol!

So 12/31 it is (actually he will be on vacation for the holidays, so his last day actually working is 12/20). As our new home closing is scheduled for 12/31, ( and though I am sure it will really be after that date- maybe sometime in January) I think it will coincide nicely.

Right now he counts the days. He went from liking his job/work to dreading it, though right now there is nothing for him to do at home as we are in limbo land here in our temporary house, so it is best for him to be working whether he realizes it or not.

In 2 more weeks we will be at our timeshare (and also finally seeing our new house) and he will be off the second week after that at home. Then he works a couple of more weeks and then he is done. Then hopefully we will be moving out of state after that at some point soon.

Enjoy your life while you can! No time like the present!


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## PigsDad (Nov 12, 2019)

klpca said:


> My boss was on a cruise this week. Checked his email every day. I had easy internet access all over France. *You just can't get away from it anymore.*


No, you *can *get away from it.  Sounds like your boss *chose *not to.  Sad, IMO.

Kurt


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## geekette (Nov 12, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> No, you *can *get away from it.  Sounds like your boss *chose *not to.  Sad, IMO.
> 
> Kurt


Completely agree.  CHOICE.   I started travelling internationally to avoid calls from work while on vacation time.  Everyone deserves down time.  I am a reformed workaholic, living my life for me, not my employer.  Life is stressful enough without bringing work on vacation.  A company that can't do without me for a week is a place with no disaster plan which is clearly bad planning.   

It is about 2 years since I last worked.  I expected to be back in 2 weeks.  I have taken absolutely no work calls, never checked that email.  I will assume that they got along without me fine, but I really don't care, I'm healing myself because I am a higher priority to me than that workplace.  They terminated me at first legal chance, after one year of FMLA.  This is how much my employer cared about me.


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## klpca (Nov 12, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> No, you *can *get away from it.  Sounds like your boss *chose *not to.  Sad, IMO.
> 
> Kurt


My point was more along the line that in the past, you got on the ship and it was difficult and expensive to get on the internet. Not any more. It was a piece of cake.

I have to admit that when we were in Tahiti last year on a Tradewinds cruise, we were the only ones without cell service (odd that Verizon had no service even for a price) and it was the best week ever. We were just in France and of course we had service so I stayed in touch with the rest of the world, which somewhat diminished the pleasure of the trip. Are you guys disciplined enough to stay off of the internet when you travel? I just couldn't do it. I checked my home email (left an away message for work and never checked that). I read my local newspaper, and checked in briefly on social media. My phone is my camera so I can't just leave it at home.


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## SmithOp (Nov 12, 2019)

klpca said:


> My point was more along the line that in the past, you got on the ship and it was difficult and expensive to get on the internet. Not any more. It was a piece of cake.
> 
> I have to admit that when we were in Tahiti last year on a Tradewinds cruise, we were the only ones without cell service (odd that Verizon had no service even for a price) and it was the best week ever. We were just in France and of course we had service so I stayed in touch with the rest of the world, which somewhat diminished the pleasure of the trip. Are you guys disciplined enough to stay off of the internet when you travel? I just couldn't do it. I checked my home email (left an away message for work and never checked that). I read my local newspaper, and checked in briefly on social media. My phone is my camera so I can't just leave it at home.



Its simple really, just push that Airplane Mode button when you leave and resist all temptation to press it until you return.

Going on a cruise in 12 days, they want $99 for unlimited social media, no thanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## turkel (Nov 12, 2019)

klpca said:


> My point was more along the line that in the past, you got on the ship and it was difficult and expensive to get on the internet. Not any more. It was a piece of cake.
> 
> I have to admit that when we were in Tahiti last year on a Tradewinds cruise, we were the only ones without cell service (odd that Verizon had no service even for a price) and it was the best week ever. We were just in France and of course we had service so I stayed in touch with the rest of the world, which somewhat diminished the pleasure of the trip. Are you guys disciplined enough to stay off of the internet when you travel? I just couldn't do it. I checked my home email (left an away message for work and never checked that). I read my local newspaper, and checked in briefly on social media. My phone is my camera so I can't just leave it at home.



If we are out of the country we turn our phones off and don’t think twice about it. We have never even checked on international service.

My mom is on our plan and just went to Mexico. She was shocked when I told her she didn’t have service out of the US. Next thing ya know I am getting a call from my brother telling me to turn on international service.  NO! 

I told him if she didn’t like it she could get her own plan!

We are actually shocked by the number of people using their cell on vacation. I just think People put the damn thing down and enjoy your partner,family, surroundings your on vacation.

My husbands office literally turns into a sh*t show without him, everybody miserable and complaining due to highly stressed screwed too tight manager. So sorry folks, He’ll smooth everyone’s feathers when he gets back.


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## DaveNV (Nov 12, 2019)

It’s standard practice at my company to set up Out of Office notifications on phones and email, advising that the person will be away, with “limited to zero access to email and calls,” returning on (whatever date), and referring to a backup person or the company Help Desk. I have never once had somebody try to reach me away from work, unless it was an immediate coworker I’d asked to let me know if such-and-such occurred. And even that is rare.

Now having said that, it doesn’t mean that *I* want to be totally off the grid from friends and family, too. Those Facebook cat videos aren’t going to post themselves! 

Dave


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## VacationForever (Nov 12, 2019)

Many years ago I had a manager who expected us to not only read and respond to emails but also to call into important meetings when we were out on our own vacation time.  Most of us were all type A personalities and it did not bother us.  We all wanted to stay on top of what was going on, made decisions etc even while we were away from the office.

We went on to start our own business and continued with the same work ethics of working and being connected 365 days a year.

Now that I am retired, I still read and respond to (personal) email throughout the day.  When we travel internationally or out on a cruise, we also want to be always connected by phone and email.  We don't see it as hardship.


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## rapmarks (Nov 12, 2019)

Bxian we attended my husband’s 60 year reunion, and all the lawyers were still working!

Clifffaith, I still have teacher nightmares and back to school nightmares and it will be twenty years


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## klpca (Nov 12, 2019)

I just don't have the discipline to stay off of the phone completely. We used maps (sometimes the offline maps were problematic), used yelp to find restaurants in unfamiliar neighborhoods, used the metro planner all the time, stayed in touch with tour groups by email etc. I didn't spend a bunch of time on social media - that's the easiest to let go - but we posted pics to our private family group. I didn't check work email (but a client who I also work with for real estate) texted me with an issue. Grrr. Luckily it referred to an attachment that I never received, so I texted her back and told her to call the office and speak to my boss. Not her fault, she didn't know that we were out of the country, but it was still jarring to get the text - at 2am. 

I admire those of you who can just disconnect but sadly, I am not one of them.


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## CalGalTraveler (Nov 12, 2019)

It's different when you run your own small company...You can put people in place to respond to calls and the out of the office message, but sometimes things arise such as customer issues or a major client asking for new business that cannot wait two weeks.


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## Passepartout (Nov 12, 2019)

Anyone who thinks they are irreplaceable should stick their hand into a bucket of water, then pull it out and see how long it takes the water to fill the space where their hand was. 

Jim


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## Luvtoride (Nov 12, 2019)

Bxian said:


> Somewhat late to the party here..



Even later to the party here.  My wife and I both turned 62 this year.  She recently retired from her "Corporate job" as a nurse (running a large homecare agency) to spend more time with our newest grandchild and slow down a bit.  She was constantly "on call" and responding to emails, texts and phone calls about work, even while on vacations.    
She has started her own healthcare consulting company, working from home and has the time the help our daughter with childcare when she needs some fill-in time (she has regular day-care lined up for most times).  My wife also spends more time at our 2nd home at the Jersey shore, only about 70 minutes from where we live full-time.  Joestein, it is definitely worth realizing the dream of a 2nd home if you can manage it.  That is one of the reasons why I continue to work, as supporting 2 homes and our TS MF's is still pretty costly.  Eventually, when I retire we could give up one of the residences.  

I understand the strategy some have discussed here of using multiple TS weeks as a 2nd home but I don't think there is any comparison in enjoyment, logistically or financially.  The travel costs and planning to go to those resorts alone has to be exhausting, not to mention expensive.  When you go, you still need to pack, unpack and repack to return (too bad you can't rent storage space to keep your stuff there).  And financially, I don't spend $50k in housing costs to service my mortgage, property taxes and HOA fees for my condo (although its not far from that amount, MOXJO).  We don't rent out our condo, but if we needed to, we could.  We've owned it for 2 years and it has already appreciated in value almost 10% from what our purchase price was.


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## slip (Nov 12, 2019)

My company is much like Dave’s. We leave out of office messages and the only thing I do is move emails to a file folder. Otherwise, I would have hundreds to move when I get back to work. 

So, I unplug from work but I do enjoy posting and messaging friends. I get many messages and comments from them about how much they enjoy my posts. I don’t feel it’s bragging as I enjoy their posts also. 
I get messages from many who can’t or won’t travel for many reasons but they love seeing the pictures and hearing about our adventures.


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## VacationForever (Nov 12, 2019)

Passepartout said:


> Anyone who thinks they are irreplaceable should stick their hand into a bucket of water, then pull it out and see how long it takes the water to fill the space where their hand was.
> 
> Jim


I don't for one second believe we were irreplaceable.  On the contrary, we knew we were replaceable but it was about having a say in what and how things needed to be done at work.  Type A personalities don't like to relinquish their control.


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## PigsDad (Nov 12, 2019)

klpca said:


> I just don't have the discipline to stay off of the phone completely. We used maps (sometimes the offline maps were problematic), used yelp to find restaurants in unfamiliar neighborhoods, used the metro planner all the time, stayed in touch with tour groups by email etc. I didn't spend a bunch of time on social media - that's the easiest to let go - but we posted pics to our private family group. I didn't check work email (but a client who I also work with for real estate) texted me with an issue. Grrr. Luckily it referred to an attachment that I never received, so I texted her back and told her to call the office and speak to my boss. Not her fault, she didn't know that we were out of the country, but it was still jarring to get the text - at 2am.
> 
> I admire those of you who can just disconnect but sadly, I am not one of them.


I think there is a big difference between being disconnected from work / home while on vacation vs. using your phone while on vacation for navigation, looking up restaurants, tours, etc.  The latter enhances one's vacation time, and to me, that is still being "disconnected" while on vacation.

Kurt


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## PcflEZFlng (Nov 12, 2019)

We also had an Out Of Office setting for email at work, and co-workers were generally pretty good at honoring the fact that I was out. Nevertheless, my boss would usually text me once during my vacation to ask a question, such as where a particular document was located. I didn't mind the brief interruption. But what was hilarious was when he texted me, while I was on vacation yet again, _after I had retired!_ But in that case he was just letting me know that the project I launched right before retiring had won an award!


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