# [2011] DRI to Buy Monarch Grand Vacation



## Bill4728

This letter was just sent to all Monarch Grand (MGV) owners.  

So it looks like MGV is no more and DRI has bought out another TS company.  




> Dear Monarch Grand Vacations Owner:
> 
> As a valued owner of Monarch Grand Vacations, we feel it is important for you to hear from us this important news about Pacific Monarch Resorts, Inc.
> 
> On October 24, 2011, Pacific Monarch Resorts Inc., the developer and sales organization for Monarch Grand Vacations, entered into an agreement to sell a substantial portion of its assets to a subsidiary of Diamond Resorts International (“Diamond Resorts”).  To affect the sale, Pacific Monarch voluntarily commenced Chapter 11 proceedings.  The sale is subject to the approval of the U.S. bankruptcy court and certain other conditions.  Assuming court approval is obtained and all conditions have been satisfied, Pacific Monarch Resorts anticipates the sale will close in the first quarter of 2012.
> 
> Diamond Resorts is one of the largest and most successful timeshare companies in the world with destinations throughout the continental United States and Hawaii, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa.
> 
> Monarch Grand Vacations, Monarch Owner Services, and Resort Services Group are not part of the bankruptcy or the sale to Diamond Resorts, and will continue normal operations at our headquarters in Laguna Hills California, and our resort properties in California, Utah, Nevada and Mexico.  In addition, the resort owner associations are not part of the bankruptcy or the sale, and will continue to act on behalf of all our owners.  Central reservations as well as resort operations, maintenance, and management will continue as normal and will not be affected.
> 
> The Pacific Monarch Resorts sale to Diamond Resorts will have no effect on your rights, privileges or ownership, and you are encouraged to take advantage of our continued resort hospitality.  You should also understand that your obligation to pay your annual resort ownership dues continues and if you have an outstanding loan, your monthly loan payments as well.
> 
> Please be aware that you may receive calls from unscrupulous timeshare resale companies attempting to scare you with information that is not true.  It is important to remember that your ownership and rights have not changed and that all resorts are fully operational.
> 
> We will make every effort to keep you informed as we go forward with periodic updates, and we look forward to continuing to provide outstanding hospitality you have come to expect from Monarch Grand Vacations.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Monarch Grand Vacations Board of Directors


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## Bill4728

Now I'll need to learn about DRI ;(


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## timeos2

Interesting as the letter seems to say the sales functions are being sold to DRI but the management will stay with MGV.  That doesn't sound too good as management is a cash cow & they have not shown any signs of quality or value in that role as most Developer based managements don't tend to be good at in the owners view.  The owners would likely be better off with an independent management rather than continuing with MGV in that spot. The sales portion really doesn't affect current owners.  They are already done with sales (except for upgrades which don't tend to be a good deal no matter who is offering it).  That may also mean that owners will not get "regular" access to DRI propertied without some type of additional purchase into that system.  As I read this it sounds like MGV plans to keep operating their rather sparse internal trade system even after the potential sale is complete.


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## pgnewarkboy

The letter is intentionally cryptic.   The clearest part is "that a substantial portion of assets have been sold".


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## jbercu

*How to split Siamese twins*



timeos2 said:


> Interesting as the letter seems to say the sales functions are being sold to DRI but the management will stay with MGV.  That doesn't sound too good as management is a cash cow & they have not shown any signs of quality or value in that role as most Developer based managements don't tend to be good at in the owners view.  The owners would likely be better off with an independent management rather than continuing with MGV in that spot. The sales portion really doesn't affect current owners.  They are already done with sales (except for upgrades which don't tend to be a good deal no matter who is offering it).  That may also mean that owners will not get "regular" access to DRI propertied without some type of additional purchase into that system.  As I read this it sounds like MGV plans to keep operating their rather sparse internal trade system even after the potential sale is complete.



John:
You are suggesting that MGV is not run by the independent owners.  The letter from MGV suggests that they are independent of the sale organization and a non-profit organization representing the owners where the owners vote for a Board.

The sales organization which is being sold owns units at the same resorts that are currently run by the MGV non-profit organization.  The non-profit organization holds its deeds in a trust.  The sales organization is not in the trust but owns enough units to control the resort.  Diamond is not in the business of owning units in resorts they do not manage.  Diamond would not have touched this deal if they did not have the full cooperation of the “Independent” MGV club.  The future is clear.  The MGV club will be rolled into the DRI club.  The deal will close in 2012, and the MGV 2012 maintenance is due in 2011.  The MGV statement is self-serving.  They do not want the owners to walk away before the DRI deal unfolds and the DRI-MGV merger is pitched.

In addition, MGV owns units in resorts they do not own or manage.  DRI will have to take control of these resorts or make a deal to spin the residual units.

In short, DRI is taking over.  There is no independence.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

So was/is MGV on the edge of bankruptcy?


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## dougp26364

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> So was/is MGV on the edge of bankruptcy?



apparently, enough so that they can file for chapter 11 to facilitate a quick buyout. This looks a lot like the deal with Mystic Dunes in Orlando. 

Sunterra has a great system for themselves. The problem was, Sunterra managed itself into bankruptcy by not maintaining their resorts, which was secondary to not charging MF's high enough to maintain the resorts which was secondary to their philosophy on encouraging sales and not concentrating on their management contracts. The difference between Sunterra and DRI is DRI appears to pay more attention to the management contracts and the bottom line. DRI is not afraid to charge higher MF's and maintain the resorts.


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## rjreichert

*Takeover*

I know that DRI will take over the development, but for us Monarch Grand Vacation owners, does that mean our ownership will be transfered to Diamond Resorts? Does that mean Monarch Grand will be no more and we will be Diamond Resort owners? Or will Monarch Grand Vacations remain independent from Diamond and continue as we were?

Thanks for answering!!

By the way, Bill, did you get a letter in the mail? I found out by just looking at the MGV web site.


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## NPetris

*Pacific Monarch sale to DRI*

I received notice in an e-mail from MGV of the bankruptcy and sale of PMR to DRI. I was not surprised by the bankruptcy as it appeared that construction projects were stalled at both the Las Vegas(Cancun)and Cabo Azul resorts. I was hoping Worldmark/Wyndham would be the buyer. I e-mailed both MGV and DRI asking what changes may be in store for MGV owners. They both said that operations will continue with MGV. I wonder if this will be like Wyndham's takeover of Trendwest keeping Worldmark as the owner's association. Oh well, I guess we can only speculate at this point.


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## csalter2

*DRI is your new owner*

If DRI is taking over then Monarch will become a part of DRI. This will give DRI a whole new base of prospective owners to purchase points in the DRI system. When I stayed at Los Abrigados this summer, I was asked to attend a presentations for DRI. I have noticed this pattern at all DRI resorts that have been taken over. Don't be surprised by this. You have a new king.  

More than likely Monarch owners will have increased maintenance fees. When DRI took over Sunterra the maintenance fees increased significantly, but the properties' maintenance also improved and rooms were renovated. I did not have a problem with this since I could see the improvements. The increases have not been as significant as when DRI first took over. In fact last year the increase was less than my Marriott increase. I am hoping this year's won't be too bad either. 

For me, I still feel a little lucky with the DRI takeover. No, I did not like the maintenance fee increases like everyone else. However, I originally owned when it was Epic Resorts. They let the properties go down the tubes. Then Sunterra bought Epic and I had some new choices. I liked that. I stayed at the Point at Poipu when Sunterra took over and loved that property.  When DRI took over, I began taking advantage of Polo Towers, Grand Beach, Cypress Point and other properties that DRI either owned or were affiliated with. In any case, I love DRI's options. 

Yes, many people complain about stuff. I know the Europeans complain a lot, but they have a different Club than we do in the US. However, once the maintenance fees shock was absorbed, many have not complained as much about DRI.  Now that special assessment of almost $6000 that the Point at Poipu has been hit with has them up in arms and likely so.  If someone wanted me to pay that much at one time, I would have a heart attack. The other issue that owners are having is that DRI's maintenance fees for owners are higher than what DRI is renting them for to non owners. You place that alongside seemingly limited availability and complaints will come. 

However, those who wait until late to make reservations in very popular places can expect to see limited availability.  In most cases, if you have the 13 month home collection advantage, you can get a reservation where you would like except southern California.  That is why getting Monarch will be good because it will give DRI members access to some resorts in southern California which is valuable during summer. 

I would advise Monarch owners to be careful if they are turning their owned units into Club points. First, make sure that if you go to points that you receive enough points so that you can at least stay in your resort in the units that you currently have whenever you can today. That is a mistake that I made when I went from Epic Resorts to Sunterra and I actually thought I had covered that. When I was with Epic, I could stay in a 2 bedroom villa during prime time/Christmas and New Years week with the points I had. However, when I joined Sunterra, I was not able to get those two weeks in a 2 bedroom because my transfer of points was enough for most weeks but not all weeks. Thus, I lost value.  You want to pay close attention to that. 

Also, I would advise Monarch owners who want to join the Club to look at the point values in various seasons prior to going into a sales presentation so you will know how much your unit will be worth and how many points you may need to stay at various properties in the DRI collection. Please note that DRI Hawaii properties require a lot of points to stay for a week particularly the nice ones like Ka'anapali Beach Club and the Point at Poipu.  

I still like the DRI system, I love the options. However, I would advise Monarch owners to really review this site and the DRI website prior to going into any sales presentation as DRI salesman will give heavy pressure for you to buy when you first go in to see them about your new owner. Don't rush into anything. Take your time and know what you want. If you want flexibility to stay for shorter amounts of time and you own a week, learn about the system and what it will take for you to benefit from it. 

There are many of us who have had different experiences positive and negative or both with DRI, use us for information. 

Just a few words to newcomers who have no choice in the new owners.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

NPetris said:


> I received notice in an e-mail from MGV of the bankruptcy and sale of PMR to DRI. I was not surprised by the bankruptcy as it appeared that construction projects were stalled at both the Las Vegas(Cancun)and Cabo Azul resorts. I was hoping Worldmark/Wyndham would be the buyer. I e-mailed both MGV and DRI asking what changes may be in store for MGV owners. They both said that operations will continue with MGV. I wonder if this will be like Wyndham's takeover of Trendwest keeping Worldmark as the owner's association. Oh well, I guess we can only speculate at this point.


I would be amazed if that did not happen.

I expect that it will play out almost identically with how the DRI collections work. Which is, if you are a MGV member you can reserve within the MGV system with exactly the same rights, privileges, and obligations that you have now.

Meanwhile, DRI will try to sell DRI club memberships to to MGV owners.  What DRI will sell is that MGV owners swap their MGV ownerships for an interest on one of the DRI trusts - I would imagine that would be the "US Collection".  After the swap, the DRI trust would take over ownership of that MGV membership.

Thus the MGV ownership base would include both the traditional MGV ownerships as well as ownership by whichever DRI trust acquires the ownerships. Over time, as more MGV owners convert to the Trust, the trust becomes a steadily increasing ownership bloc.  It will not take long until the DRI trust controls enough votes that it can effectively set policy. Given that about 80% of owners never bother to submit proxies,the Trust will generally be able to dominate the resort when it comprises as little as 5% to 10% of the ownership base.


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## csalter2

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I would be amazed if that did not happen.
> 
> I expect that it will play out almost identically with how the DRI collections work. Which is, if you are a MGV member you can reserve within the MGV system with exactly the same rights, privileges, and obligations that you have now.
> 
> Meanwhile, DRI will try to sell DRI club memberships to to MGV owners.  What DRI will sell is that MGV owners swap their MGV ownerships for an interest on one of the DRI trusts - I would imagine that would be the "US Collection".  After the swap, the DRI trust would take over ownership of that MGV membership.
> 
> Thus the MGV ownership base would include both the traditional MGV ownerships as well as ownership by whichever DRI trust acquires the ownerships. Over time, as more MGV owners convert to the Trust, the trust becomes a steadily increasing ownership bloc.  It will not take long until the DRI trust controls enough votes that it can effectively set policy. Given that about 80% of owners never bother to submit proxies,the Trust will generally be able to dominate the resort when it comprises as little as 5% to 10% of the ownership base.



It looks like you and I were thinking similar thoughts at the same time.


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## timeos2

csalter2 said:


> It looks like you and I were thinking similar thoughts at the same time.



Looking at past "integration's" one by DRI and others it is rare that they combine an existing group into the main system without any additional cost. They may offer some limited access or simply keep the group as an external system that operates within itself and only gets limited access to the larger DRI system(s).


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## rjreichert

*Thanks All!*

Thanks for your comments and info. I want to learn as much as possible. We are with points with MGV. We own a significant amount of points. Do you think we will have to pay extra to get under the DRI ownership, a transfer fee, etc.??

Since we own a lot of points, does DRI have premier benefits-owning certain amount of points getting you more priveledges at different levels?

We are going to a Diamond Resort in Sedona on a getaway right before Christmas and plan to go to a sales presentation to learn about DRI. I want to go in with as much knowledge as possible so I can ask the right questions. I know I won't always get a truthful answer, so that's why I'm leaning on you TUG people to help me.

How much are your maintance fees per point. Some that I've seen posted are anywhere from .09-.15 cents per point. Also if owning in the US collection, gives you the same priveledges to reserve say in Hawaii and Europe? Or is it like an exchange? Can the MF fees be paid annually or quarterly?

What is your estimate for 155 MGV points, 2 bdrm in peak season or a garden view rm in Cabo Azul vs, DRI points. Just wondering how many points I may get with DRI with my MGV points.

Thanks again with all your info!! You are all a great help.


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## dougp26364

rjreichert said:


> Thanks for your comments and info. I want to learn as much as possible. We are with points with MGV. We own a significant amount of points. Do you think we will have to pay extra to get under the DRI ownership, a transfer fee, etc.??
> 
> Since we own a lot of points, does DRI have premier benefits-owning certain amount of points getting you more priveledges at different levels?
> 
> We are going to a Diamond Resort in Sedona on a getaway right before Christmas and plan to go to a sales presentation to learn about DRI. I want to go in with as much knowledge as possible so I can ask the right questions. I know I won't always get a truthful answer, so that's why I'm leaning on you TUG people to help me.
> 
> How much are your maintance fees per point. Some that I've seen posted are anywhere from .09-.15 cents per point. Also if owning in the US collection, gives you the same priveledges to reserve say in Hawaii and Europe? Or is it like an exchange? Can the MF fees be paid annually or quarterly?
> 
> What is your estimate for 155 MGV points, 2 bdrm in peak season or a garden view rm in Cabo Azul vs, DRI points. Just wondering how many points I may get with DRI with my MGV points.
> 
> Thanks again with all your info!! You are all a great help.



We actually owned with DRI before they purchased Sunterra. The points system is Sunterra's, not DRI's. DRI charged us $2,995 to join the "new" points overlay system. 

If we'd have purchased trust points and converted our deeded weeks to one of their trusts, they'd have waved that joiner fee.........but we'd have bought another $5,000 worth of points and we'd have had to pay the trust fund management fee in addition to the points overlay annual membership fee, which is now up to $277/year. That membership fee covers all internal exchanges in THE Club (points membership) and includes the DRI coporate Interval Gold membership for external exchanges. Interval's current exchange fee's apply to all external exchanges.


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## Bill4728

I'm not looking at converting my MGV pts to the DRI system at all. I believe that DRI will want way too much money and that if I wanted DRI I'd be smarter to buy into the US collection resale.

I still think with 2 resorts on the SoCal coast that MGV should have some value but recent auctions show that isn't true.


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## jbercu

*Will you have a choice?*



Bill4728 said:


> I'm not looking at converting my MGV pts to the DRI system at all. I believe that DRI will want way too much money and that if I wanted DRI I'd be smarter to buy into the US collection resale.
> 
> I still think with 2 resorts on the SoCal coast that MGV should have some value but recent auctions show that isn't true.



Pacific Monarch Resorts, Inc. owned by Carlton A. Post and Mark D. Post filed for Bankruptcy.  The largest named creditor in the filing is Monarch Grand Vacation Owners Association for $753,062.00.  Who is representing MGVOA in Bankruptcy court to make sure the buyer makes up the deficit?  Is it Mark D. Post?  Will there be a Special Assessment to cover the $750,000?  Oh, wait: If you join Diamond Resorts International point System, you can avoid paying the SA!  Sounds familiar?


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## WALLstAL

*Sounds Like A Complete Takeover!*

http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/111028/Diamond-Resorts-Corp_8-K/d247292dex101.htm

I am not a Lawyer but this appears to be a complete take over opposite of what the letter stated.  I know nothing good can come form this for Monarach owners, just look for to increased fees.  All resorts will be taken over and there will be a policy change, I pay $1500 a year in maints fees, I hate to this how much this will go up.

The letter states: Below, I just don't understand how this can be possibe with the sale of all real property.

*{Monarch Grand Vacations, Monarch Owner Services, and Resort Services Group are not part of the bankruptcy or the sale to Diamond Resorts, and will continue normal operations at our headquarters in Laguna Hills California, and our resort properties in California, Utah, Nevada and Mexico. In addition, the resort owner associations are not part of the bankruptcy or the sale, and will continue to act on behalf of all our owners. Central reservations as well as resort operations, maintenance, and management will continue as normal and will not be affected.}*


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## rjreichert

*Maints fees up!*

 I am not a Lawyer but this appears to be a complete take over opposite of what the letter stated. I know nothing good can come form this for Monarach owners, just look for to increased fees. All resorts will be taken over and there will be a policy change, I pay $1500 a year in maints fees, I hate to this how much this will go up.

Yep-9%!!


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## rjreichert

> I am not a Lawyer but this appears to be a complete take over opposite of what the letter stated. I know nothing good can come form this for Monarach owners, just look for to increased fees. All resorts will be taken over and there will be a policy change, I pay $1500 a year in maints fees, I hate to this how much this will go up.
> 
> 
> Yep-9%!!
> 
> (Sorry-don't know how you did that copy and paste thing)


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## csalter2

*Comes with the DRI territory*



rjreichert said:


> I am not a Lawyer but this appears to be a complete take over opposite of what the letter stated. I know nothing good can come form this for Monarach owners, just look for to increased fees. All resorts will be taken over and there will be a policy change, I pay $1500 a year in maints fees, I hate to this how much this will go up.
> 
> Yep-9%!!



Yes. It seems to go with the turf with DRI. However, in time they will be spiffing up the properties. That's what they have done with the others. They have refurbished rooms, renovated bathrooms, redone pools, etc. In tiime, that's what you will see with of course annual increases in your maintenance fees. They won't always be 9% though.


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## NPetris

*MGVOA BOD Elections*

I am grateful for TUG and for all the posts on the subject of the Pacific Monarch sale to DRI and the repercussions to MGVOA owners. In point of interest, I received an owner's newsletter (12/6/11) stating that applications are being accepted for MGVOA Board of Directors until 12/12/11 for the 3/12/12 election. I have especially been impressed by Bill 4728's posts and link information and  would like to see him run for a MGVOA BOD position. Is that something you would be interested in? Sorry, there wasn't much notice.


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## robcrusoe

I'm just sad that I didn't get any DRI stock when they took my Sunterra stock.  I'd be rich[er].


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## WALLstAL

Last year (2011) maintainance fees went up 10%, in 2012 they are going up 9% with this economy I see no end in site.  I just received my bill for 2012 and the total is now $1790 a year, this is never going to end.  I hate to say it but this was the worst purchase I have every made with no way out.


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## Bill4728

NPetris said:


> I am grateful for TUG and for all the posts on the subject of the Pacific Monarch sale to DRI and the repercussions to MGVOA owners. In point of interest, I received an owner's newsletter (12/6/11) stating that applications are being accepted for MGVOA Board of Directors until 12/12/11 for the 3/12/12 election. I have especially been impressed by Bill 4728's posts and link information and  would like to see him run for a MGVOA BOD position. Is that something you would be interested in? Sorry, there wasn't much notice.


Generally with point based TS systems the developer owns so much of the inventory that only those people who the the developer wants to be on the board are on the board.  No independent board members are ever elected.


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## drguy

According to the update we attended this morning at Cabo Azul, the trust is being closed in the next few weeks and 4 of the 8 completed buildings will remain in the trust, the rest will be DRI as will the former hotel which will be finished as timeshare condos.  4.25 per credit per year maintenance fees is what we were quoted.
Internet in the room has been repaired at least 4 times since we arrived 24 hours ago.
Quite a few renovations are underway, replacing structural items built in the past couple of years.  Salesman was not impressed with the CA resorts, calling them average and worn, expecting DRI to raise prices and fees across the board.  Heck of a pitch to get us to buy more...


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## dougp26364

drguy said:


> According to the update we attended this morning at Cabo Azul, the trust is being closed in the next few weeks and 4 of the 8 completed buildings will remain in the trust, the rest will be DRI as will the former hotel which will be finished as timeshare condos.  4.25 per credit per year maintenance fees is what we were quoted.
> Internet in the room has been repaired at least 4 times since we arrived 24 hours ago.
> Quite a few renovations are underway, replacing structural items built in the past couple of years.  Salesman was not impressed with the CA resorts, calling them average and worn, expecting DRI to raise prices and fees across the board.  Heck of a pitch to get us to buy more...




DRI will make the necessary upgrades/repairs and, owners will pay for those upgrades, including DRI for the unit weeks they still own in their sales inventory. 

The bad news, owners will be putting more money into their resorts. 

The good news is the resorts will improve in quality. Once the initial MF shock is over, they'll level out. 

Our ownership at Polo Towers had fallen behind some (financiall wise) when Mr. Cloobeck had stepped away from an active role in management. After a stiff SA and some 7% increases in MF's for a couple of years, things have leveled out. This year one timeshare had a 0% increase and the other was 4.9%. The resort no longer looks dated but fresh and now compares with the better resorts in Las Vegas.


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## rjreichert

*Update?*

Has anyone heard anything yet? Has the sell gone through?


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## jbercu

*The Sale is Complete!*



rjreichert said:


> Has anyone heard anything yet? Has the sell gone through?



The Sale is Complete!

The Bankruptcy Court judge ruled in favor of the sale on Friday the 13th. (January 13, 2012)
If you send me a PM with you e-mail address, I can send you a PDF of the Court order titled:
“ORDER PURSUANT TO BANKRUPTCY CODE SECTIONS 105, 363 AND 365 AUTHORIZING THE DEBTORS TO SELL CERTAIN ASSETS TO DPM ACQUISITION, LLC OR TO THE SUCCESSFUL BIDDER”

There was no other bidder since the bankruptcy was a formality to get rid of the unsecured creditors.  The unsecured creditors, including MGV will have to recover peanuts on the dollar from the sale of the Pacific Monarch headquarters building, if it is sold for an amount that exceeds the mortgage and selling fees. (Doubtful)


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## cgartly

The problem with MGV is the maintenance fee's are already through the roof in comparison to other timeshare systems.  I own 576 points and the MF for is 8.60/pt.  If I lived closer to my timeshare's I could get good value by just staying Mon-Thu.  

For example a Friday night stay at Cancun is 42 points for 2 br, which equates to $361.20 for a night.  I can buy the same night on Expedia for much less, although there is currently no availability on 2br units for the night I want.  Escape time if available is only $126.00 for the same night.

I'm just not sure I could afford to keep paying my maintenance fee's if they went up 7% for the next couple of years, not with the value I am currently receiving. 

Perhaps if MGV quit selling weeks to Expedia for less than what it costs an owner and passed some better getaway deals to owners I'd feel I was getting a good value for my dollar but currently it feels like as an Owner I am being taken advantage of.


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## Grandmonarch_ClassAction

*Want out of Monarch Grand Vacation TS? - Class Action Lawsuit*

I am trying to find other victims of Monarch Grand Vacation timeshares who may be interested in a Class Action Lawsuit.

I have set up the following email for this purpose: grandmonarch_ClassActionLawsuit@yahoo.com

Please email there is you are also a victim and want to do something about it or want out. Please feel free to pass along this email address to others you may know who have also fallen victim to their unscrupulous business practices. 

Thank you,
Burned by the Monarch


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## WALLstAL

Back in May I attened an owners update meeting at palm Canyon.  The entire nine resorts have been taken over by DRI, they stated they would give me credit for my ownership. For only $10,000 and give them my existing plan with points, I would be eligible to use all of DRI's properties. Under their points plan I would  only be eligible for one weeks use per year. Under my current plan with 421 pts, depending on how I use it, I have almost 42 weekdays at Palm Canyon every other year. They want me to through all that away, for one week at DRI, they said with their plan I can go all over the world with just one phone call. I told them I was not interested, they gave me a $75 Visa debit card for my time.


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## TNSexton

*Mgv Owners: Do Not Transfer To Diamond!!!*

Let me first share the experience my wife and I had at our recent "Owner's Update" at the Palm Canyon Resort in Palm Springs this past week, then I’ll share my thoughts on that experience.

When we checked in, we signed up for an Owner’s Update as we were curious to learn how Diamond’s new ownership of MGV would affect our Monarch points etc. When we sat down with a sales rep, he didn’t even bother to butter us up at all, he just went right in with how the program we’d bought into would no longer be available. When we last purchased points, Monarch had sold us on a program that would give us numerous extras and benefits once we got to 600 total points. We are currently at 399 and had planned to reach the 600 points in the next 4-5 years.  Now, that was no longer available.

Next, he explained what our options would be if we wanted to transfer our points to the Diamond system. This is where things got really weird. He first informed us that our points would transfer at an exchange rate BETWEEN 15 & 30x as Diamond operates on thousands while Monarch operates on hundreds. When we asked why there wasn’t a fixed rate of transfer for the points, he said "I don't know." We then immediately asked, what is the variable in the exchange rate based on, credit, length of time as owners or something else. His answer again was, “I don’t know.” 

He then showed us a couple of examples of their points system and what would be required to stay at certain resorts. Right now, our 399 points are good for 3 weeks total in a one bedroom at Cabo Azul where the time was originally purchased over two years. At the low end 15x exchange rate, we’d have 5,985 points in the Diamond program for one year, but a number of the resorts we were shown required close to 7,000 points for a week in a one bedroom. We were less than thrilled.

So, our next question was how many points in the Diamond system would it take to stay in a one bedroom at Cabo Azul for a week. He couldn’t answer this question either. His response was, “we won’t know until January 1st, 2013 when Diamond takes control of their portions of the MGV properties." At this point, we were pretty unimpressed and somewhat perturbed by this whole situation and so the saleman asked his supervisor over to help clarify some of the points. She basically went through the same exact pitch, unable to answer the same questions, but instead of approaching the exchange from the low end, she used examples of the 30x exchange ratio. When we asked her what the exchange ratio was based on, she said, “I don’t know.”

WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?  This is like a crap shoot or a lottery. *I’m not gambling with the value of our existing timeshare*, hoping it will work out in our favor! Who would take this offer, it’s INSANE! 

So, then they said, “we’ll be willing to waive the new member fee of $2,995 if you sign up with us today, but you’ll need to purchase a minimum of 2,500 points with us as well.” We told them there was no way we’d gamble with our Monarch points when they couldn’t tell us what the exchange rate was based on and because there is no example of how many Diamond points will be needed to stay at any of the Monarch resorts, there is no way for us to quantify the value of Diamond’s points system. To this, the woman supervisor said, “I just showed you a number of examples of how many points would be required to stay at different Diamond resorts.” I retorted, “I haven’t stayed at any of these places, I haven’t seen the stats on these rooms, a list of the amenities, or more than one picture of the front of the resort. I cannot possible assess the value of a one bedroom at these resorts we’ve never been to or had the chance to research. 

With that, we said we would not be switching to Diamond at this time and they asked us to sign a form that said we acknowledged we were offered the deal where they’d waive the $2,995 entrance fee and it would not be available to us again. *We refused to sign it.* I told them it was not fair to be given an ultimatum when we only wanted an update on the goings on of the company. Especially when there were so many unanswered questions and we had not been given substantial time to review the Diamond program or their many properties. 

*They did not make us sign it and neither should anyone else.* This sales pitch was the worst I’ve ever heard, we were literally floored by the unprecedented approach they took in trying to convince us to switch with minimal information being provided. Why would anyone make a decision of that magnitude based on hearsay and speculation?!?!?  Until Diamond can offer rock solid information about how they are converting Monarch owners and are able to give comparison points rates for the existing Monarch properties using their points system, it is absurd that anyone would even consider switching over. 

Don’t be fooled by their pitch, don’t buy into something where a company is asking you to gamble with the value of your existing timeshare and they have no way to give you a quantified value to compare your existing points to.


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## dougp26364

I didn't read much past the line where the salesman told you your original ownership wasn't worth anything...........that is a big 'ol LIE! Anytime a TS salesman tells you what you were originally sold is worthless, just stop listening at that point. 

The salesman has you upset with what amounts to a pack of lies in his attempt to make a few bucks off you. Give it two or three years and let DRI clean these clowns out off the sales floor, then go back to see what they say. 

Your ownership as you own it now won't change. Look around TUG and see how many complaints you can find from those who were in systems before Sunterra bought those systems out. Find some legitimate complaints from owners of recent systems or resorts purchased by DRI. I believe you'll have trouble finding any where owners report actually issues getting what they own. 

You will find reports of salesmen telling owners what they were sold isn't worth anything. So, you can find salesmens lips flapping but no evidence that their threats ever come to reality. That should tell you that jumping off a bridge based on a TS salesmens lies isn't worth doing.


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## csalter2

*Wise Move!*



TNSexton said:


> Let me first share the experience my wife and I had at our recent "Owner's Update" at the Palm Canyon Resort in Palm Springs this past week, then I’ll share my thoughts on that experience.
> 
> When we checked in, we signed up for an Owner’s Update as we were curious to learn how Diamond’s new ownership of MGV would affect our Monarch points etc. When we sat down with a sales rep, he didn’t even bother to butter us up at all, he just went right in with how the program we’d bought into would no longer be available. When we last purchased points, Monarch had sold us on a program that would give us numerous extras and benefits once we got to 600 total points. We are currently at 399 and had planned to reach the 600 points in the next 4-5 years.  Now, that was no longer available.
> 
> Next, he explained what our options would be if we wanted to transfer our points to the Diamond system. This is where things got really weird. He first informed us that our points would transfer at an exchange rate BETWEEN 15 & 30x as Diamond operates on thousands while Monarch operates on hundreds. When we asked why there wasn’t a fixed rate of transfer for the points, he said "I don't know." We then immediately asked, what is the variable in the exchange rate based on, credit, length of time as owners or something else. His answer again was, “I don’t know.”
> 
> He then showed us a couple of examples of their points system and what would be required to stay at certain resorts. Right now, our 399 points are good for 3 weeks total in a one bedroom at Cabo Azul where the time was originally purchased over two years. At the low end 15x exchange rate, we’d have 5,985 points in the Diamond program for one year, but a number of the resorts we were shown required close to 7,000 points for a week in a one bedroom. We were less than thrilled.
> 
> So, our next question was how many points in the Diamond system would it take to stay in a one bedroom at Cabo Azul for a week. He couldn’t answer this question either. His response was, “we won’t know until January 1st, 2013 when Diamond takes control of their portions of the MGV properties." At this point, we were pretty unimpressed and somewhat perturbed by this whole situation and so the saleman asked his supervisor over to help clarify some of the points. She basically went through the same exact pitch, unable to answer the same questions, but instead of approaching the exchange from the low end, she used examples of the 30x exchange ratio. When we asked her what the exchange ratio was based on, she said, “I don’t know.”
> 
> WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?  This is like a crap shoot or a lottery. *I’m not gambling with the value of our existing timeshare*, hoping it will work out in our favor! Who would take this offer, it’s INSANE!
> 
> So, then they said, “we’ll be willing to waive the new member fee of $2,995 if you sign up with us today, but you’ll need to purchase a minimum of 2,500 points with us as well.” We told them there was no way we’d gamble with our Monarch points when they couldn’t tell us what the exchange rate was based on and because there is no example of how many Diamond points will be needed to stay at any of the Monarch resorts, there is no way for us to quantify the value of Diamond’s points system. To this, the woman supervisor said, “I just showed you a number of examples of how many points would be required to stay at different Diamond resorts.” I retorted, “I haven’t stayed at any of these places, I haven’t seen the stats on these rooms, a list of the amenities, or more than one picture of the front of the resort. I cannot possible assess the value of a one bedroom at these resorts we’ve never been to or had the chance to research.
> 
> With that, we said we would not be switching to Diamond at this time and they asked us to sign a form that said we acknowledged we were offered the deal where they’d waive the $2,995 entrance fee and it would not be available to us again. *We refused to sign it.* I told them it was not fair to be given an ultimatum when we only wanted an update on the goings on of the company. Especially when there were so many unanswered questions and we had not been given substantial time to review the Diamond program or their many properties.
> 
> *They did not make us sign it and neither should anyone else.* This sales pitch was the worst I’ve ever heard, we were literally floored by the unprecedented approach they took in trying to convince us to switch with minimal information being provided. Why would anyone make a decision of that magnitude based on hearsay and speculation?!?!?  Until Diamond can offer rock solid information about how they are converting Monarch owners and are able to give comparison points rates for the existing Monarch properties using their points system, it is absurd that anyone would even consider switching over.
> 
> Don’t be fooled by their pitch, don’t buy into something where a company is asking you to gamble with the value of your existing timeshare and they have no way to give you a quantified value to compare your existing points to.



You made a wise move by not buying in that situation. I would not have either, and you are talkiing with a very happy DRI owner. You need to get more information as you stated. At the very least, you want to make sure that the value of the points you have now will have the same transfer value in DRI points.  You want to make sure you can not only get those three weeks in a one bedroom, but you also want to make sure you can get the same three weeks in the same seasons you could get it in your Monarch system.  For example, when my original timeshare points from Epic Resorts allowed me to get a two bedroom unit during peak season, Christmas & New Years, in Scottdale, Arizona. However, when Sunterra (pre DRI) bought Epic Resorts and implemented their points system on the surface it looked as if I would still have 2 bedrooms all year. However, I did not realize that there was a high season and a peak season in the Sunterra system. Epic had a red season which was their peak season and I did not realize that red season did not include Sunterra's peak season. It was not until I tried again to make reservations at Christmas time a few years later that I learned I did not have enough points and I was very, very upset with them and myself for missing that detail. 

The salesman will do just about anything to get you to sign on the dotted line. There is no way you can make an informed decision on switching until DRI has put together a conversion matrix for you to compare their point values to what you currently have.  That will happen within a year. I would just be patient and as Doug suggested enjoy what you have and in time you will be able to compare what DRI has to offer. There are many happy DRI owners that look to maximize their ownership. There are some that are unhappy right now at the Kauai Resort at Poipu because a major special assessment was placed upon them for almost $6000 last year. The resort had major damage. A water intrusion problem that was not handled prior to DRI's buying the company that owned it. I believe the damage was caused by a hurricane a while back. The owners are suing DRI because of that assessment.  On a positve note, DRI does offer lots of flexibility, opportunities to get a lot out of your points, lots of choices to take advantage of DRI resorts and others, and a variety of locations. I don't live far to Monarch resorts in Capistrano and DRI in time will give them a much needed face lift and refurbishment.  Your maintenance fees may go up as well, but when you see the improvements in time you may find it worth it.  With that said, continue to be vigilante before making your next move.


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