# Shell Vs. Worldmark



## PearlCity

Bah. I'm so confused. When I started looking at Timeshares I wanted HGVC and Marriott and DVC--I got my EOY Marriott, probably still will get DVC after we get our taxes and Xmas bills all figured out,  but I think I need one more then I'll be good (yeah I know I've been warned I would want more than one).  I don't think I want HGVC anymore only because of the limited places to use them at outside of Oahu, the Big Island, Vegas and Orlando...and  but after reading through the boards here I discovered Worldmark and Shell.  Worldmark looks like the most econmical and appears to be a good trader, but some of the resorts when looking at reviews online appear to be run down--and I probably would only use Worldmark in Anahiem, San Diego, Phoenix and Maui.  All are on the expensive side in terms of points required to use. 

Then I discovered Shell.. my son's preschool teacher loves her Shell.  Anahiem, Phoenix, Vegas, San Francisco, Kauai, Big Island, all of those resorts look great.. I looked up their resorts and they all have rave reviews, but the maintence fees are so much higher--I mean almost comperable to Marriotts and HGVC--are Shell resorts really up to par with Marriott and HGVC?  

Is there anyone out there who owns both? If you have to pick one which would you pick?


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## rickandcindy23

We have stayed at a few Shell resorts now, having owned over two years.  The fees for 10K points average to about .20 each.  The fees are lower as you add more contracts to a single account.  The West Club is cheaper than the Americana and the Hawaii, but Hawaii is a close second.  

There are housekeeping fees, and I think I have six per year for the 12,225 points we own.  The threshold was 12K, I believe, for six.  

The stays aren't cheap in San Francisco, that's for sure, unless you want to make use of weekday stays. That helps the cost considerably.  Peacock Suites in Anaheim costs us $520 for a 1 bedroom for a full week during the most prime seasons.  This is our total cost + $10 per day parking.  A two or three bedroom is around $780 per week's stay.  That's a good deal.  Weekday stays are very reasonable, and we can do those, so we can save half the points by staying Mon-Fri.  

Important things we considered:

1. Buy in one club, because you pay a minimum fee for the first so many points, and it's high.  I don't have the numbers right here.  Then additional points are less than .17 each.  Also, you pay for an II account, and that fee is around $150 per club.  So we bought in the California Club (West), because we love San Francisco, Napa, and Anaheim.  You do get an advance reservation window for your own club.  For prime seasons, that is important.  But you can only book 7 nights > 7 months out.  So you cannot take all of the weekends that far out.  

2. If you are close to a particular threshold to get more free housekeeping, get enough points to surpass that threshold. 

3. There are reservation fees, which are called transaction fees by Shell, you only get two free per account.  So every reservation you make online, you have to pay $17.50 after the first two.  You also have to pay that money if you cancel.  

The better deal: Shell charges a $20 transaction fee to call a guide to book or cancel.  That fee covers as many transactions that you can do in a single day.  So if you want to book six reservations and cancel six reservations, it's $20 for that day.  So if you want to book a bunch of stays, book them at once with a guide and cancel what you don't need with a guide.  

4. Shell is being taken over by WorldMark or Wyndham, one of the two, or both, and we don't know what changes will occur to our ownership.  The owners of those two systems may get inventory from the Shell resorts.  This could be less inventory for Shell owners.  It's an unknown.  

5. The Shell resorts we have visited will do a daily towel change, unless you put out your "Do Not Disturb" sign.  I think that is a waste of money, personally.  I don't need fresh towels every day, nor do I need a new supply of soaps and coffee.  

6. Some Shell properties have a breakfast included.  This is a nice amenity in places like San Francisco and Anaheim, where there are no kitchens.  Peacock Suites has a great continental breakfast.  I mostly ate oatmeal, but they had hard-boiled eggs, toaster waffles, lots of donuts, etc.  The coffee was really good, so I didn't brew coffee in the unit.  They had International Delight creamers. Not important to most, but it was to me.  I didn't have to seek out a grocery store.


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## ronparise

I think rundown may be the wrong word to use to describe the Worldmark resorts..."older" or "basic" perhaps.   Worldmark never tried to outdo the marriotts and hiltons with granite and stainless steel. Worldmark started as a collection of drive-to resorts, primarly on the west coast. Although recently they have added some resorts for us east coasters. A second big deal feature with Worldmark that you dont get in most other timeshare systems is the flexibility of short stays (with some restrictions, a night at a time if you like) and long stays. And since you can easily transfer credits from owner to owner there are lots of folks that buy a small account and buy onetime use credits from other owners.

So you dont get all the bells and whistles....Workdmark maintenance fees are among the lowest in the industry. And worldmark credits trade well in either RCI or II

visit http://www.wmtsinfo.com/  for lots of how-to info  wmowners.com to ask questions


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## PassionForTravel

I've never seen a Worldmark resort that was run down and I've been to most of the ones ones on the West Coast. Even the ones I don't care for (Kona, Tahoe) were very clean, some are older but always in good shape. What reviews might have been commenting on is that in a lot of cases Worldmark doesn't own the whole complex so in that case they are not in control of the grounds. 

Yes some of the newer ones (San Diego, Anaheim, etc) are more expensive that's a big issue that allot of long time owners have with Wyndham who bought out the original developer Trendwest. BTW - There are two locations in Ahaheim and the older one (Dolphins Cove) is cheaper.

I have to disagree about Maui though, it takes 12K to stay in a 2 bedroom at Kihei if you had a 12K account (not the most efficient) your MF would be $753 per year.  If you have a 20K account (more efficient) that same unit would cost you $667 in MF. A week in a 2 bedroom in Hawaii for < $100 a night seems like a smoking deal to me.

As Ron mentioned the flexibility is better than any other system that I've found. No reservation fee. Very flexible cancellation policy. In red season it's 13 months for a week or 90 days for >= single day. Any other season you can book a single day at 13 months. Large internal network that any owner can book into. Bonus time (within 2 weeks or 30 days for Hawaii) you can book for cash, that 1 week in a 2 bedroom in Maui would cost you $624 for a week.

Ian


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## easyrider

We love our worldmarks. Many of the resorts are within driving distance for us. Worldmark trades really well into RCI. You end up with confirm first meaning you can browse available inventory with out depositing. Some of best resorts show up on RCI this way and if the reservation is within 45 days the point cost is only 4000 for ant available unit. This means you can score a 2 - 3  bed unit for 4k points + exchange fee when available.

Shell was purchased by Wyndham. Wyndam is the developer for Worldmark. 


http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/media/press-releases/press-release?wwprdid=1302


Bill


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## PearlCity

HI Everyone! Thanks for the replies! Yes I'm leaning towards worldmark but I sure wish there was a worldmark on Oahu I could use!  Thanks for the feedback on the units. It's hard to tell what reality is in terms of condition having not actually stayed in one. So your feedback is really appreciated! 

RickandCindy, thanks for the info on Shell too.  I see your posts throughout the tugbbs and you seem to enjoy your Shell points like my son's preschool teacher does.  

Ahhh I'm still a bit confused.. lol the numbers really make sense for Worldmark though.. like you folks said, Kihei is a deal at 12,000 points. Not  smoking deal like the 10k point resorts, but still cheap considering it IS Maui..


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## PassionForTravel

Yup I agree I think Oahu is the missing piece in WM Hawaii portfolio.

Ian


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## rhonda

PearlCity said:


> Yes I'm leaning towards worldmark but I sure wish there was a worldmark on Oahu I could use!


But you'll soon have your DVC to use at Aulani?


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## GregT

Pearl,

Worldmark absolutely rocks -- its reservation system is the most flexible of any that I own and its trading power is tremendous in both II and RCI.

The properties themselves are very functional -- they are not destination resorts.  But I enjoy staying at Worldmark Big Bear and Tahoe South Shore, and will stay at Indio if I can't trade into one of the Marriotts in Palm Desert.   

I also love the Kihei property and will often stay there as a transition property before going up to the Marriott.   I do think Kihei will be a good Maui option for you --- but the WMs are definitely not destination resorts.

I do wish there was a WM on Oahu, which is why I purchased HGVC -- specifically for Big Island and Oahu.   But there are enough bulk banks of HGVC (that don't have a preference) that I can sometimes get to those properties by trading the WM.   I specifically keep the RCI membership so that I can trade WM into HGVC bulk bank.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide!

Best,

Greg


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## PearlCity

rhonda said:


> But you'll soon have your DVC to use at Aulani?



That's true, Actually my Canyon Villas trades well into Ko Olina I see a lot.. but Waikiki would be nice. Which makes shell attractive even though the occupancy is only 4. I can see DH and I doing a little Waikiki getaway once a year.


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## PearlCity

GregT said:


> Pearl,
> 
> Worldmark absolutely rocks -- its reservation system is the most flexible of any that I own and its trading power is tremendous in both II and RCI.
> 
> The properties themselves are very functional -- they are not destination resorts.  But I enjoy staying at Worldmark Big Bear and Tahoe South Shore, and will stay at Indio if I can't trade into one of the Marriotts in Palm Desert.
> 
> I also love the Kihei property and will often stay there as a transition property before going up to the Marriott.   I do think Kihei will be a good Maui option for you --- but the WMs are definitely not destination resorts.
> 
> I do wish there was a WM on Oahu, which is why I purchased HGVC -- specifically for Big Island and Oahu.   But there are enough bulk banks of HGVC (that don't have a preference) that I can sometimes get to those properties by trading the WM.   I specifically keep the RCI membership so that I can trade WM into HGVC bulk bank.
> 
> Good luck, and let us know what you decide!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg




Greg, Thanks for the insight. For HGVC are you able to get summer/spring break times or mostly low season times when you trade with Worldmark. It's mostly waikiki I would love to stay at some of the time, but HGVC has a high buy in which i why I'm looking at alternatives...That and the limited places I could use HGVC at as opposed to Worldmark and Shell.


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## GregT

PearlCity said:


> Greg, Thanks for the insight. For HGVC are you able to get summer/spring break times or mostly low season times when you trade with Worldmark. It's mostly waikiki I would love to stay at some of the time, but HGVC has a high buy in which i why I'm looking at alternatives...That and the limited places I could use HGVC at as opposed to Worldmark and Shell.



The bulk banks typically avoid the summer time, most of the bulk banks are Spring and Fall...I do see some June weeks for the Big Island, but haven't seen it for Oahu...

It is still a great benefit!

Best,

Greg


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## JohnPaul

*Oahu*

With regard to Oahu, you can use your Worldmark points to stay at two Vacation Internationale resorts on Oahu - Royal Kuhio and Fairway Villa.

This is a reciprocal agreement between VI and Worldmark so it isn't gauranteed to last forever but has been around for 10+ years at least.

I own both Worldmark and Shell and they are just different.

Shell maintenance fees are much higher but you get daily maid service (change towels, empty trash, make bed with existing linens).  We love staying in San Francisco and Napa.

Worldmark has much more reasonable fees but you will get formica instead of granite and white appliances instead of stainless steel. 

I think they are both great for what they are.


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## Marcia3641

PassionForTravel said:


> I have to disagree about Maui though, it takes 12K to stay in a 2 bedroom at Kihei if you had a 12K account (not the most efficient) your MF would be $753 per year.  If you have a 20K account (more efficient) that same unit would cost you $667 in MF. A week in a 2 bedroom in Hawaii for < $100 a night seems like a smoking deal to me.
> Ian



Hi, just wondering why a 20K account is more efficient than a 12K account? I was looking at http://www.wmtsinfo.com/item/81 and the MF get higher the larger the account. I've been reading the board a lot lately as I am interested in purchasing WM credits. Been checking out ebay trying to figure out which package makes more sense to purchase given the fact that it's an additional ~$750 closing costs/transfer fee plus the final bid. I would love to get the most bang for my buck.

Marcia


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## PassionForTravel

Marcia3641 said:


> Hi, just wondering why a 20K account is more efficient than a 12K account?



Marcia You are confusion total MF with MF efficiency.  So you are right a 20K account would have higher MF than a 12K account. But MF go up for every 2500 credits that are in the account. Therefore 10001 credits and 12500 credits would have the same MF($753) , and 17501 and 20000 would have the same MF ($1113). So 12K would work out to be $.06275 per credit but 20K would work out to be $.05565 per credit.

The reason it's more efficient is that 20K falls on a MF boundary i.e. you are getting the maximum number of credits for that MF, but 12000 does not (12500 does and no you can't have an account of 12500). The other reason is that there is a flat fee charged (somewhere around $150 never can remember) for every account so the drag of that flat fee would be less on a 20K account than on a 12K account since it's being spread over more credits. Extrapolate this out and a 100K account would cost $4948 and the per credit cost is $.04948.

Ian


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## BocaBum99

PassionForTravel said:


> I have to disagree about Maui though, it takes 12K to stay in a 2 bedroom at Kihei if you had a 12K account (not the most efficient) your MF would be $753 per year.  If you have a 20K account (more efficient) that same unit would cost you $667 in MF. A week in a 2 bedroom in Hawaii for < $100 a night seems like a smoking deal to me.
> Ian



You are comparing apples to oranges.  It's not meaningful to compare maintenance fee efficiency if it doesn't include all costs of ownership.  You cannot compare maintenance fees per credit for a 20000 credit account vs. a 12000 credit account without factoring in a cost of capital and depreciation for the extra 8000 credits you must purchase.

If you can purchase WorldMark credits at $.20/credit, then with a cost of capital of 4%, an extra 8000 credits in the initial purchase would cost you an additional $64 per year.  In addition, WorldMark credits are likely to depreciate in value over time.  Let's say you lose half its value in 10 years.  Straight line depreciation would be another $80 per year.

The difference in annual maintenance fees for a 20000 credit account vs. a 12000 credit account is ($1113.46 - $753.88) = $359.58.  Add in depreciation and cost of capital and you are paying an additional ($360 + 64 + 80 = $504 for 8000 credits and 1 hk token.

You can rent 8000 credits and 1 HK token easily for $490.   That's a difference of $14 or less than 2%.  Well within the margin of error for this analysis.

So, the total cost of ownership required for a 12000 credit reservation at Kihei is about the same if you purchase a 20000 credits account or if you purchase a 12000 credit account.


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## Marcia3641

PassionForTravel said:


> Marcia You are confusion total MF with MF efficiency.  So you are right a 20K account would have higher MF than a 12K account. But MF go up for every 2500 credits that are in the account. Therefore 10001 credits and 12500 credits would have the same MF($753) , and 17501 and 20000 would have the same MF ($1113). So 12K would work out to be $.06275 per credit but 20K would work out to be $.05565 per credit.
> 
> The reason it's more efficient is that 20K falls on a MF boundary i.e. you are getting the maximum number of credits for that MF, but 12000 does not (12500 does and no you can't have an account of 12500). The other reason is that there is a flat fee charged (somewhere around $150 never can remember) for every account so the drag of that flat fee would be less on a 20K account than on a 12K account since it's being spread over more credits. Extrapolate this out and a 100K account would cost $4948 and the per credit cost is $.04948.
> 
> Ian




Thank you for the explaination. Just wondering if you have any insights on what would be a good cost per point purchase as I've been looking at several ebay bids but the cost vary so much even with the same point accounts, not to mention I know it's an additional $700 in closing costs/transfer fees.

Marcia


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## BocaBum99

Marcia3641 said:


> Thank you for the explaination. Just wondering if you have any insights on what would be a good cost per point purchase as I've been looking at several ebay bids but the cost vary so much even with the same point accounts, not to mention I know it's an additional $700 in closing costs/transfer fees.
> 
> Marcia



I think the best value is purchasing a 5000 credit account and renting the rest of the credits you need as you need them.   However, since there aren't many 5000 credit accounts, get a 6000 or 10000 credit account.  There is no need to own more than that.  What matters is total cost of ownership, not maintenance fee efficiency.

If you want to own a larger account, it's okay given how low the acquisition cost is for WorldMark credits now.  You would own a larger account for convenience only meaning you don't have to rent credits.


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## PearlCity

Marcia3641 said:


> Thank you for the explaination. Just wondering if you have any insights on what would be a good cost per point purchase as I've been looking at several ebay bids but the cost vary so much even with the same point accounts, not to mention I know it's an additional $700 in closing costs/transfer fees.
> 
> Marcia



Marcia I've been stalking as well. The cheaper costs are with less reputable sellers. And the prices to vary between $.24-$0.40 a point. I think.average is about $.27-$.30 a point.But you need to look at how loaded the account is with banked points as that affects prices as well. Goodluck.


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## lcml11

PearlCity said:


> Marcia I've been stalking as well. The cheaper costs are with less reputable sellers. And the prices to vary between $.24-$0.40 a point. I think.average is about $.27-$.30 a point.But you need to look at how loaded the account is with banked points as that affects prices as well. Goodluck.



That was a very broad statement and not necessarily true.  I believe using the lowest cost per thousand points or variations of it is the world's worst basis to use in selecting a timeshare or re-seller to use.  I would absolutly use where you want to go if a resort dis-affiliates from their parent system, a quality resort, and secondarily the price per thousand points or equilvant.  

Buying for exchange power is risky and should be left to the pros.

If you think a re-seller is shakey, then due your due dilagence and make sure it is what you think it is.  If the re-seller will not provide this information move on.

On the main point, use which ever system has the most resorts located where you want to go and do not limit the search to Shell Vacation Club and Worldmark the Club.  Both apparently are ungoing significant changes.  Shell Vacation Club with the takeover by Wyndham Vacation Resorts (as far as I can tell, a good thing) and Worldmark the Club, a bad thing with the lawsuit that was recently resolved and what appears to be an on-going revolt by some of the owners against Wyndham.  Both of these systems probably are high risk until time tells the outcome.


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## BocaBum99

lcml11 said:


> That was a very broad statement and not necessarily true.  I believe using the lowest cost per thousand points or variations of it is the world's worst basis to use in selecting a timeshare or re-seller to use.  I would absolutly use where you want to go if a resort dis-affiliates from their parent system, a quality resort, and secondarily the price per thousand points or equilvant.
> 
> Buying for exchange power is risky and should be left to the pros.
> 
> If you think a re-seller is shakey, then due your due dilagence and make sure it is what you think it is.  If the re-seller will not provide this information move on.
> 
> On the main point, use which ever system has the most resorts located where you want to go and do not limit the search to Shell Vacation Club and Worldmark the Club.  Both apparently are ungoing significant changes.  Shell Vacation Club with the takeover by Wyndham Vacation Resorts (as far as I can tell, a good thing) and Worldmark the Club, a bad thing with the lawsuit that was recently resolved and what appears to be an on-going revolt by some of the owners against Wyndham.  Both of these systems probably are high risk until time tells the outcome.



I completely disagree with your assessment of WorldMark.  First of all, nobody owns an individual resort in WorldMark so you can't own where you want to travel.  You own a piece of all the resorts.

Second, I think WorldMark is low risk because of the success that owners have had in winning law suits against the board.   The original bylaws were very favorable to owners and Wyndham is having a hard time mucking it up.  If anything, Wyndham is the problem.  Just look at how much VIPs have lost over the last 5 years.


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## BocaBum99

JohnPaul said:


> With regard to Oahu, you can use your Worldmark points to stay at two Vacation Internationale resorts on Oahu - Royal Kuhio and Fairway Villa.
> 
> This is a reciprocal agreement between VI and Worldmark so it isn't gauranteed to last forever but has been around for 10+ years at least.
> 
> I own both Worldmark and Shell and they are just different.
> 
> Shell maintenance fees are much higher but you get daily maid service (change towels, empty trash, make bed with existing linens).  We love staying in San Francisco and Napa.
> 
> Worldmark has much more reasonable fees but you will get formica instead of granite and white appliances instead of stainless steel.
> 
> I think they are both great for what they are.



There are 3 resorts in Waikiki to which I travel several times per year.

Wyndham Waikiki because I am a platinum VIP and I can travel there on short notice.  My cost per night for a 2br unit there is usually between $80-100/night based on the platinum VIP discount and if I get an upgrade.

Hilton Hawaiian Village.  I am an HGVC owner and I can get Open Season in most months.  2br oceanview unit is around $140-160 plus tax.

Ilikai managed by Shell, but available through the Bluegreen side of Select Connections.  It is 9000 points which has maintenance fees of about $450 for a week.

With a WorldMark ownership, it would be very easy to trade with an owner in any of these resort groups.  Or, you can even rent from them after renting out your own credits.


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## PearlCity

lcml11 said:


> That was a very broad statement and not necessarily true.  I believe using the lowest cost per thousand points or variations of it is the world's worst basis to use in selecting a timeshare or re-seller to use.  I would absolutly use where you want to go if a resort dis-affiliates from their parent system, a quality resort, and secondarily the price per thousand points or equilvant.
> 
> Buying for exchange power is risky and should be left to the pros.
> 
> If you think a re-seller is shakey, then due your due dilagence and make sure it is what you think it is.  If the re-seller will not provide this information move on.
> 
> On the main point, use which ever system has the most resorts located where you want to go and do not limit the search to Shell Vacation Club and Worldmark the Club.  Both apparently are ungoing significant changes.  Shell Vacation Club with the takeover by Wyndham Vacation Resorts (as far as I can tell, a good thing) and Worldmark the Club, a bad thing with the lawsuit that was recently resolved and what appears to be an on-going revolt by some of the owners against Wyndham.  Both of these systems probably are high risk until time tells the outcome.



I'm sorry what did I say that is not true? I'm.simply stating what I have observed. I made a speardsheet.  The sellers that have less than reputable feedback on tug igve had lowere selling prices than the ones that do.  I was looking into these systems because both have resorts in Hawaii and the west coast where I would travel most. I simply wanted feedback from owners who own in both or folks who have been to both.


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## BocaBum99

PearlCity said:


> I'm sorry what did I say that is not true? I'm.simply stating what I have observed. I made a speardsheet.  The sellers that have less than reputable feedback on tug igve had lowere selling prices than the ones that do.  I was looking into these systems because both have resorts in Hawaii and the west coast where I would travel most. I simply wanted feedback from owners who own in both or folks who have been to both.



Your numbers are in the right range.  What you said is fine.  Most of his comments regarding WorldMark demonstrate that he doesn't really understand the system.


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## lcml11

BocaBum99 said:


> Your numbers are in the right range.  What you said is fine.  Most of his comments regarding WorldMark demonstrate that he doesn't really understand the system.



What you said or implied about me may or may not be true.  However, it is based on what I have read or heard about the Worldmark, the Club system.  The classaction suit by some owners was real.  The loss of availabity at Worldmark the Club to Wyndham Club Plus/Access was real.  There are many posts available on the Internet discussing or mentioning the class action suit.  

The wmowners site that was also referenced in at least one of the threads in the Wyndham forum here discussed a rumored takeover by DRI of Worldmark by Wyndham.

Additionally, on my recent trip to Old Time Alexandria, from the staff members I talked the ones I believe are the ones I made on a posting on a new resorts thread.  There was one staff member that I did not believe that said the long term goal of Wyndham was to eliminate Shell Vacation Club and Worldmark the Club and offer them an option to come into Club Wyndham Plus/Wyndham (this person was a salesperson).


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## Marcia3641

PearlCity said:


> Marcia I've been stalking as well. The cheaper costs are with less reputable sellers. And the prices to vary between $.24-$0.40 a point. I think.average is about $.27-$.30 a point.But you need to look at how loaded the account is with banked points as that affects prices as well. Goodluck.



Thanks for the information. I hope I can find a loaded account for a decent price but I'm not in a hurry so I will take my time looking. If I knew back then what I know now I would of bought WM versus Wyndham since I live on the west coast. Oh well, I've been enjoying all my vacations that last 7 years and at least I bought resale. 

Marcia


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## lcml11

Marcia3641 said:


> Thanks for the information. I hope I can find a loaded account for a decent price but I'm not in a hurry so I will take my time looking. If I knew back then what I know now I would of bought WM versus Wyndham since I live on the west coast. Oh well, I've been enjoying all my vacations that last 7 years and at least I bought resale.
> 
> Marcia



And, if you already own Wyndham Club Plus/Access, as post on another thread observed, Wyndham Club Plus/Access's West Coast presence is expanding over time.


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## CatLovers

PearlCity said:


> Then I discovered Shell.. my son's preschool teacher loves her Shell.  Anahiem, Phoenix, Vegas, San Francisco, Kauai, Big Island, all of those resorts look great.. I looked up their resorts and they all have rave reviews, but the maintence fees are so much higher--I mean almost comperable to Marriotts and HGVC--are Shell resorts really up to par with Marriott and HGVC?



We too love our Shell points (we own in the Hawaii Club).  To answer your specific question about whether the Shell resorts are up to par with Marriott and HGVC, in our opinion, a resounding yes.  In some cases, better.  When we bought (about five years ago and resale), that was one of our criteria, and we picked Shell over Marriott and HGVC because we felt the value proposition was greater for Shell.  As someone else has pointed out, Shell has now been bought by Wyndham and even though they have assured owners that they will continue to be operated separately, I don't think that will be true for ever.  As to what that means for the quality/cost ratio, I think we will just have to wait and see!


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## LLW

lcml11 said:


> That was a very broad statement and not necessarily true.  I believe using the lowest cost per thousand points or variations of it is the world's worst basis to use in selecting a timeshare or re-seller to use.  I would absolutly use where you want to go if a resort dis-affiliates from their parent system, a quality resort, and secondarily the price per thousand points or equilvant.
> 
> Buying for exchange power is risky and should be left to the pros.
> 
> If you think a re-seller is shakey, then due your due dilagence and make sure it is what you think it is.  If the re-seller will not provide this information move on.
> 
> On the main point, use which ever system has the most resorts located where you want to go and do not limit the search to Shell Vacation Club and Worldmark the Club.  Both apparently are ungoing significant changes.  Shell Vacation Club with the takeover by Wyndham Vacation Resorts (as far as I can tell, a good thing) and *Worldmark the Club, a bad thing with the lawsuit that was recently resolved and what appears to be an on-going revolt by some of the owners against Wyndham. * *Both of these systems probably are high risk until time tells the outcome*.





lcml11 said:


> What you said or implied about me may or may not be true.  However, it is based on *what I have read or heard about the Worldmark, the Club system.  The classaction suit by some owners was real.  The loss of availabity at Worldmark the Club to Wyndham Club Plus/Access was real.  There are many posts available on the Internet discussing or mentioning the class action suit.  *
> *The wmowners site that was also referenced in at least one of the threads in the Wyndham forum here discussed a rumored takeover by DRI of Worldmark by Wyndham.*
> 
> Additionally, on my recent trip to Old Time Alexandria, from the staff members I talked the ones I believe are the ones I made on a posting on a new resorts thread.  There was one staff member that I *did not **believe** that said the long term goal of Wyndham was to eliminate Shell Vacation Club and Worldmark the Club and offer them an option to come into Club Wyndham Plus/Wyndham (this person was a salesperson)*.



I have been a WM owner for over 10 years. I think it's the best timeshare there is. That's just an opinion based on my own vacation and life style. But much of what you said are your opinions anyway.

The fact that there is an activist owner base at WM is a good thing. It's good to have checks and balances. Corporations exist to make profits. Prospective buyers should be happy that there are volunteer owners who spend their own time and money to fight for owners' benefits. As Boca said, Wyndham has been trying to muck it up. It's the strong governing documents and strong owner-protecing owner community that's been stopping Wyndham from doing some of the things that it's been doing to Wyn Vacation Resorts.

You seem to like to quote rumors that DRI and WVR salesmen spread. (The "rumor" about DRI was also spread by a DRI saleman. I believe that has been brought out to you in another thread.) It's your choice to believe what timeshare salemen told somebody who's repeated it on the Internet. But why quote something in which you "did not believe?" What was your point - that salesmen are spreading untrue rumors?

In any case, much of the units "lost" by WM to Club Wyndham was underutilized units that Wyn built that they shouldn't have. So the removal of the units _and the corresponding credits_ was a good thing.

So far the things that you have pointed out that you thought was cause for concern for WM are all good. As Boca said, you really don't understand WM but have been trying to spread a rumor that it's not a good system.

BTW, I have not been there, but I believe it's Old *Town* Alexandria, not Old *Time* Alexandria.


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## Bill4728

lcml11 said:


> The wmowners site that was also referenced in at least one of the threads in the Wyndham forum here discussed a rumored takeover by DRI of Worldmark by Wyndham.
> 
> Additionally, on my recent trip to Old Time Alexandria, from the staff members I talked the ones I believe are the ones I made on a posting on a new resorts thread.  There was one staff member that I did not believe that said the long term goal of Wyndham was to eliminate Shell Vacation Club and Worldmark the Club and offer them an option to come into Club Wyndham Plus/Wyndham (this person was a salesperson).


IF (and it is a big IF) Wyndham want to get rid of Shell (svc)  & Worldmark (wm) They likely do not want to get rid of the wm & svc resorts but the way that the WM & SVC systems work. Basically they want all the resorts under the Wyndham brand to run under the same rules. The problem with that is the by laws of WM don't allow wyndham to do that.

I would not believe for a second that WM will be take over by another TS system and certainly not DRI.


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## lcml11

Bill4728 said:


> IF (and it is a big IF) Wyndham want to get rid of Shell (svc)  & Worldmark (wm) They likely do not want to get rid of the wm & svc resorts but the way that the WM & SVC systems work. Basically they want all the resorts under the Wyndham brand to run under the same rules. The problem with that is the by laws of WM don't allow wyndham to do that.



You are right, they want the resorts.  I found a Wyndham document that indicated where they are going, will try to find it again.  

Update:

"We're pleased to announce that we've added a significant amount of new inventory into our CLUB WYNDHAM Plus (CWP) portfolio! As of Jan. 11, 2013, more than 400 units at 11 former Associate Resorts, will officially become part of our CLUB WYNDHAM Access (CWA) product. This means new dots on the map for our owners!."

Note:   They are stressing the adding of new dots on the map for owners.

https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/resort/search.do

https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/resort/resortreport.go

Wyndham from my viewpoint, is doing very very very well over time getting availability and access to WM resorts for its Wyndham Club Plus members, just take a peek at the growing number of Worldmark locations that are ending up under the Wyndham Club Plus brand.  At this point, saying they are primarily on the East Coast and Worldmark on the West is not real accurate.  A more accurate description is Club Wyndham Plus is primarily a U.S. based group with strong East and West Coast presence.  Worldmark, the Club, is apparently primarily a West coast operation with some availablity through Wyndham Vacation Resorts on in the Eastern part of the country.

By comparison:

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/

The good news is I see that the Wyndham Worldwide website now is mentioning the Shell system in small print on their site.

http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/about-wyndham-worldwide/wyndham-vacation-ownership

Main billing still goes to Wyndham Club Plus, Worldmark, and Wyndham Asia Pacific.  Note the large print on the bottom of the page with the very small print making reference to Shell buried in the word description.  Take note of paragraph 2, they do not even rate a underline. In the rotating ads on the very bottom of the page, note, they do not even get honorable mention where the hotels and vacation resort systems are being pitched.


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## Bill4728

Since all these resort systems are part of Wyndham, I'm moving this thread to the wyndham board.


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