# How is this possible?  My home resort is not available but with star options it is!



## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

So I call to book my Sheraton Desert Oasis home resort week.  No availability for March or first week in April.  HOWEVER, if I want to use my star options from my other weeks - eight months out - there is plenty of availability!

How can I be denied booking my home resort when there is availability, while owners from other resorts can book it?!!


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## mommaO3 (Aug 8, 2012)

Try to talk to a different starwood rep.
It is weird that home week is not available to owners...


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## timeos2 (Aug 8, 2012)

In other systems - and I don't know if this is how Starwood works - there are two "pools" of inventory. One for points (options) owners and one for weeks. If the total number of weeks owners draw the available from the weeks pool & it is full they cannot access the points/options side even if time is still in that pool.  This is done to make sure one group doesn't take, for example, all holidays or summer weeks, and instead each pool get only the percentage that the respective type of ownership represents. That's one possible explanation.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 8, 2012)

I have been told when reserving my home resort at less than 10 months that there is different inventory for SO's and full weeks.  

During Home resort period the weeks are available to both SVN and non-SVN.  For every SVN who uses Star Options instead the home resort, a full week is moved into the SVN bucket (to borrow from Marriott terminology).  This would be the same if someone converts to Star Points but instead of moving the week to the SVN bucket it can get moved to Starwood's rental bucket.


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## PamMo (Aug 8, 2012)

Or...since Starwood controls all deposits into the exchange companies, they could simply swap out a developer owned "junk" week for the deposit, and assign a prime week to the StarOption pool.


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## jarta (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> So I call to book my Sheraton Desert Oasis home resort week.  No availability for March or first week in April.  HOWEVER, if I want to use my star options from my other weeks - eight months out - there is plenty of availability!
> 
> How can I be denied booking my home resort when there is availability, while owners from other resorts can book it?!!



I'm having trouble following the timing sequence and the resorts used for your post.  But, ....

1.  Home resort reservations are made 12-8 months from arrival.  If you call at less than 8 months, it is not a home resort reservation.  You lose any ownership priority and compete against all SVN traders.  Did you call in the 12-8 month window for your "home resort" reservation?  Were you asking about using a week that could be used at 12-8 months from March-April to make a home resort reservation?

2.  If you are delinquent in paying your annual MF, you will be locked out and not be able to use any StarOptions from that resort to make a home resort reservation (or any other reservation).  Were you delinquent for 2012 at SDO when you called to reserve your week for 2013?  

3.  Also, people cancel their 12-8 month home resort reservations because it can be done for no charge if they find something elsewhere at 8 months from arrival.  It happens often.  So, there may not be availability at 8-12 months, but that can always change.

But, it seems odd that SDO would be completely booked if you called in the 12-8 month window and were current with your MF.  There is plenty of availability right now for any sized unit for the 1st 3 weeks of March and the 1st week of April.  The only limited availability right now is for 2-br units at SDO the last week of March.

So, why not make your reservation right now?    Salty


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

There is plenty of availability for March and first week in April but I am told that inventory is only available to me if I want to book it with my star options from mandatory weeks. It is not available to me as a home resort out of network resale owner. 

All my accounts are current, that is not the issue. 

Basically Starwood has carved out all the peak season inventory for usage within the network, leaving nothing for home resort resale owners to book.  I can't book my home resort although there is availability.

I think this is not admissible.  It appears there are two pools of inventory at my home resort - one for the folks who trade in network and one for home resort owners out of network.  And all the good weeks have been conveniently placed by Starwood in the first pool.


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## lily28 (Aug 8, 2012)

I have tried to book a large 1 bedroom at SDO for march for the past 2 months several times but I was told no availability


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## LisaRex (Aug 8, 2012)

Even though you own at this particular resort, unfortunately, you missed the Home Resort priority window, which is 8-12 months out.  Once that window closes, bookings can only be done via StarOptions.   This has always been the case.  For instance, I own an oceanfront view in Maui, but if I wait until after 8 months, I lose the view. That's because it's technically a SO exchange.

This is a huge distinction between Starwood and Marriott.  With Marriott, you can book at your home resort at any time and preserve your view, provided there is inventory. 

I don't like this particular aspect of Starwood, but it's in the rules. 

P.S. You might look at II to see if you can exchange into SDO with SDO.


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## YYJMSP (Aug 8, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> Even though you own at this particular resort, unfortunately, you missed the Home Resort priority window, which is 8-12 months out.  Once that window closes, bookings can only be done via StarOptions.



If I understand correctly, she doesn't have SO's on the particular SDO unit she wants to book with, it's a resale.

Does Home Resort Priority apply on a resale?

Does that mean on a resale she has to book by a particular time to get a week in her season at all, even though weeks in that season are available to a different class of owner (I.e. those with SO's?)


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## PamMo (Aug 8, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> Even though you own at this particular resort, unfortunately, you missed the Home Resort priority window, which is 8-12 months out.  Once that window closes, bookings can only be done via StarOptions.



That would mean resale owners at non-mandatory resorts can only reserve at the 8-12 month mark - otherwise they HAVE to trade through an exchange company????


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

If that was true, then I would never be able to book anything less than eight months prior to checkin because I have no star options - but I was able to book a non mandatory resale week less than eight months out -
so it's not true.  

Simply there are two different inventories - one for home resort resale owners which has nothing but junk in it, and another for mandatory in network owners from all resorts, who can "buy" in a spring break week for $148,100 star options.




LisaRex said:


> Even though you own at this particular resort, unfortunately, you missed the Home Resort priority window, which is 8-12 months out.  Once that window closes, bookings can only be done via StarOptions.   This has always been the case.  For instance, I own an oceanfront view in Maui, but if I wait until after 8 months, I lose the view. That's because it's technically a SO exchange.
> 
> This is a huge distinction between Starwood and Marriott.  With Marriott, you can book at your home resort at any time and preserve your view, provided there is inventory.
> 
> ...


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## tschwa2 (Aug 8, 2012)

You can reserve at voluntary resorts later than 8 months, it just may not be prime weeks.

With SDO being sold 1-52 and 1-17ish,51,52, you have a lot more competition for the March weeks.  Starwood needs to take out weeks for II and RCI- they get some prime weeks but more off season weeks.  Most people who have the platinum weeks in SVN probably use them in SVN.  There are probably weeks 1-8 available in SVN too.  Starwood can't take out only the January and early February weeks to give to SVN.  Even in the 12-8 month mark you have more people that can potentially take the March weeks than are available both the platinum and gold plus.  The gold plus even in SVN would need to grab a week only during the 12-8 month mark because they wouldn't have enough SO's to grab one later.

I think it is better that Starwood take out a finite number of weeks (based on SVN, RCI, II, and starpoint usage) then to open up every week to SVN members at 8 months.  The weeks that are available in SVN are probably still sitting in the SVN inventory because it is high points to use SO's to trade into those weeks.


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

I think we have no clue how Starwood divides this inventory between weeks in the network and weeks out of network - and how fair and equitable this division is.  It sure feels unreasonable to me that I can't book my home resort although it is available for owners from other resorts.

Someone told me that this is the first year that they did this - segmenting the inventory between resale non-SVN owners and Starwood in-network owners.  I would love to know how they made that decision and how many weeks went into each pool.  I am
sure locked out of booking my home resort, while there is plenty availability... For the right price.


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## jarta (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> There is plenty of availability for March and first week in April but I am told that inventory is only available to me if I want to book it with my star options from mandatory weeks. It is not available to me as a home resort out of network resale owner. ...





LisaRex said:


> Even though you own at this particular resort, unfortunately, you missed the Home Resort priority window, which is 8-12 months out.  Once that window closes, bookings can only be done via StarOptions.   This has always been the case.  For instance, I own an oceanfront view in Maui, but if I wait until after 8 months, I lose the view. That's because it's technically a SO exchange.
> 
> This is a huge distinction between Starwood and Marriott.  With Marriott, you can book at your home resort at any time and preserve your view, provided there is inventory.
> 
> ...



It seems you own a "true Plat" (1-21, 50-52) at SDO.  And, that's at the root of your "problem."  If you had purchased a 1-52 week you could reserve all year long.

I believe LisaRex is correct and you were given accurate information.  Since most of Plat season is over now, you are SOL - unless you can find something in week 50, 51 or 52 .

People should be aware that resale 1-52 weeks at SDO have an advantage over resale "true Plat" weeks in their flexibility.  It's not all about trading power.    Salty


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## tschwa2 (Aug 8, 2012)

The thing they do that burns me the most is they deposit into RCI before the 12 month mark.  How in the world can they justifying taking inventory (be it crappy or good- and they usually take some of both) out before owners at that resort can reserve?  Every bulk deposit I see that contains inventory 12+ months out I send a complain email.

And we don't see the behind the scene's numbers so they could be manipulating inventory beyond what they should be doing. But to an extent I don't see this as much different then the person who complains that they can't book with Staroptions but there is availability on Starwood.com to rent.  Starwood has the right to control some of the inventory because they are owners too and can control some inventory for SVN members but are they controlling more than they should?  -They can probably justify it with some kind of _fuzzy_ math spreadsheet.

 I think there was a thread earlier about even at 11-12 month (but not necessarily at 9am on the first day reservations opened) that some owners were having difficulty getting the check in day they wanted.


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

I was calling in to make a reservation with a regular 1-52 float.  And even if someone calls who owns true plat, March is true plat season.

I think this is an important change to what Starwood does with inventory and it should be of concern to all Starwood owners of weeks outside of network who plan to use their home resort week.

This is another major Starwood move to control the best inventory.  First they took away our ability to deposit our week of choice into Interval, decreasing our trading power.  Now, they are segregating inventory into resale out of network owners and mandatory in network owners,
cherry picking all the good weeks for the latter and locking resale out of network owners out of their home resort, when there is availability!

Yes, I bet there is a fuzzy math spreadsheet somewhere, I'd love to see its logic.


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## LisaRex (Aug 8, 2012)

A) If what you're wanting to book is NOT in the same season that you own, per the Starwood User's guide on MSC:

*Reserving Your Home Resort in a Different Season*
With the Starwood Vacation NetworkSM program, you have the flexibility to reserve your Home Resort in a different season than you purchased. You can request to change your season at your Home Resort, or any other Starwood Vacation Network resort, *using your StarOptions beginning eight months in advance of your requested check-in date*. 

B) If what you're wanting to book IS in the same season that you own, these rules apply:

*Home Resort Preference Period: *
Reservations confirmed twelve (12) to eight (8) months prior to your requested arrival date may only be requested for your Home Resort in the villa type and season purchased and require a seven (7) consecutive night stay with the arrival and departure occurring on one of the Home Resort's established check-in days. 

*Starwood Vacation Network Float Period*
*Reservations confirmed eight (8) months to three (3) months prior to your requested arrival date can be requested for your Home Resort or any Starwood Vacation Network resort in any villa type and season using StarOptions* and can be reserved for seven (7) or more consecutive night stay and require an arrival or departure occurring on an established check-in day of the resort reserved.

(bolding mine)

Mandatory owners are under the same rules as voluntary owners, but since we have SOs, we might not have realized that we were doing an SO exchange.  But, trust me, if I try to book WKORV-N after the 8 month window is closed, they tell me up front that I lose my view, because it's considered a SO exchange.


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

An issue with reserving March weeks came up earlier in this thread:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169733

Note post #10 which discusses a new "predictive model" for inventory management.

Also, note my post #9 noting the difficulty I had reserving specific check-in dates one year out for my small one bedroom units.

While I understand Ada's frustration, she is outside of the 12-8 month home resort priority period.  Of much greater consider to me is the possibility of being locked out of one's home resort during the home resort priority period not because other owners called earlier, but because of a new "predictive model" shutting one out.

Glorian


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

Today I booked a small one bedroom in March (that was the only week they had as a home resort reservation), which is within the eight month window, without using star options.  However if I wanted a large one bedroom or the whole two bedroom lockoff, it was only available in the separate pool where I had to give up star options.  So I made a reservation less than eight months out using my out of network week, without star options.

So I am still booking under home resort and not under SVO 8-month rule (I am out of network anyway).

You are right it is sad you lose your home resort preference within eight months of booking and your view category - they should preserve that preference.




LisaRex said:


> A) If what you're wanting to book is NOT in the same season that you own, per the Starwood User's guide on MSC:
> 
> *Reserving Your Home Resort in a Different Season*
> With the Starwood Vacation NetworkSM program, you have the flexibility to reserve your Home Resort in a different season than you purchased. You can request to change your season at your Home Resort, or any other Starwood Vacation Network resort, *using your StarOptions beginning eight months in advance of your requested check-in date*.
> ...


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## tschwa2 (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> Now, they are segregating inventory into resale out of network owners and mandatory in network owners,
> cherry picking all the good weeks for the latter and locking resale out of network owners out of their home resort, when there is availability!



If there are no week 1-7 SDO inventory in SVN while there are weeks 8-12, it would be more obvious cherry picking.  I can't see the inventory because as resale owner I don't get an online look (beta or otherwise).  I bet they are taking a smattering of weeks but are including prime weeks.  At 8 months they are entitled to reserve weeks for SVN members.  To counter this you just need to reserve earlier.  I agree with Glorian that the problem is when they do this before the 12 month mark.


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

I am not upset that there is no availability less than 8 months out,
I am upset that there is availability and I am locked out of it.


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## LisaRex (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> Today I booked a small one bedroom in March (that was the only week they had as a home resort reservation), which is within the eight month window, without using star options.  However if I wanted a large one bedroom or the whole two bedroom lockoff, it was only available in the separate pool where I had to give up star options.  So I made a reservation less than eight months out using my out of network week, without star options.
> 
> So I am still booking under home resort and not under SVO 8-month rule (I am out of network anyway).



Since March is 7 months out, the home resort preference period has closed, and they were actually being nice to allow you to book anything at all without using SOs -- at least under their published rules.  (Which, like you, I don't like or agree with, but that's another discussion.)  It's not really "under home resort" because your home resort ONLY comes into play during the Home Resort Preference period.  After that, where you bought doesn't come into play at all.  To get it straight in my head, I think that if it's closer than 8 months out, I'm technically homeless.  

If they ever start blocking owners from booking inventory during the Home Resort Priority period, then I foresee a mutiny.  But that didn't happen here.  What happened is that you wanted to book your home resort outside of the Home Resort preference period.  And you can't do that.  Now, if you have SOs, you can book back into your home resort, subject to availability, but it's not guaranteed.  It's important for all owners to plan ahead and book within 8-12 months, if they can, but it's especially important for voluntary owners.   

The fact that they finally capitulated and allowed you to book a small bedroom, but wouldn't budge on the larger unit, is fair.  (I wish they'd give me the same consideration with my view!) Remember, it's within the rules to prohibit you from booking ANYTHING.  So good for them for throwing you a bone.


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## LisaRex (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> I am not upset that there is no availability less than 8 months out, I am upset that there is availability and I am locked out of it.



I think you're being hung up on the fact that it's your "home resort."  If it helps, just imagine you're trying to book a resort that you don't own.  If you wanted to book, say, Westin Riverfront for March 2013, what would your options be?  Those are the same options that are available to you booking SDO once the 8 month window shut.


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

Since I am out of network, I can only book where I own, so the eight month window doesn't mean anything other than the fact that my home resort priority period is gone and other owners from other resorts are now competing with me to book where I own.

So are you saying that I can never book where I own my out of network week eight months or less prior to checkin?!

I have just booked December 2012 as well using the 2012 ownership - so five months out.


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> Since I am out of network, I can only book where I own, so the eight month window doesn't mean anything other than the fact that my home resort priority period is gone and other owners from other resorts are now competing with me to book where I own.
> 
> So are you saying that I can never book where I own my out of network week eight months or less prior to checkin?!
> 
> I have just booked December 2012 as well using the 2012 ownership - so five months out.



Hmmm, you may have a point here.  I'm not sure the 12-8 months home resort priority period limits *non-SVN* owners to only making home resort reservations in this time frame.  The fact that you were able to make a Dec. 2012 reservation supports this.  

Here are the SDO Rules & Regs:

https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/en_US/svo_media/CMSMedia/PDF/misc/sdo_rules_regs.pdf

2.A. (p. 2) states: _A reservation for an Interval Week may not be made more than one year (three hundred sixty five days) or less than thirty days before the first day of intended use._

Of course this is subject to availability.  The question is at what point is Starwood allowed to move weeks from the SDO owner pool to the SVN pool?  I would think that if an SDO owner has made an SO reservation elsewhere, then an SDO week could be moved over to the SVN side.  In that case, it seems Starwood has a right to move those weeks over beginning at 8 mos. out.  If an SDO owner decides to deposit their week in Interval, I assume Starwood could also move an SDO week over to the SVN side.  In that case, I would think they are more likely to move a prime March week over than a lesser demand week.



ada903 said:


> So are you saying that I can never book where I own my out of network week eight months or less prior to checkin?



So no, I would not say that.  But certainly, at 8 months out or less, your chances of reserving a prime March week are likely diminished.

Glorian


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## LisaRex (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> I have just booked December 2012 as well using the 2012 ownership - so five months out.



Was this at SDO, or one of the mandatory/developer resorts that you own?


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## djyamyam (Aug 8, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> Since March is 7 months out, the home resort preference period has closed, and they were actually being nice to allow you to book anything at all without using SOs -- at least under their published rules.  (Which, like you, I don't like or agree with, but that's another discussion.)  It's not really "under home resort" because your home resort ONLY comes into play during the Home Resort Preference period.  After that, where you bought doesn't come into play at all.  To get it straight in my head, I think that if it's closer than 8 months out, I'm technically homeless.
> 
> If they ever start blocking owners from booking inventory during the Home Resort Priority period, then I foresee a mutiny.  But that didn't happen here.  What happened is that you wanted to book your home resort outside of the Home Resort preference period.  And you can't do that.  Now, if you have SOs, you can book back into your home resort, subject to availability, but it's not guaranteed.  It's important for all owners to plan ahead and book within 8-12 months, if they can, but it's especially important for voluntary owners.
> 
> The fact that they finally capitulated and allowed you to book a small bedroom, but wouldn't budge on the larger unit, is fair.  (I wish they'd give me the same consideration with my view!) Remember, it's within the rules to prohibit you from booking ANYTHING.  So good for them for throwing you a bone.



Your discussion of home resort preference has absolutely no bearing in this situation as you're talking two different things.  Your reference is relevant only for SVN bookings.  ADA is talking about a straight weeks ownership (non SVN) where I can book any week floating in weeks 1-52 (ie. all year).  

In a non-SVN SDO booking, I can book any week, any time as long as there is availability (no more than 12 months out from the date I'm calling - and as little as 2 weeks before).  As has been pointed, out Starwood changed how they allocated inventory this year as it seems more inventory has been allocated to SVN inventory as opposed to regular owners at SDO.  

A few of us that are owners had previously posted about non-availability of March 2013 weeks at the 12 month mark when we've preiously been able to reserve something as late as summer.


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks Glorian.  I think it is clear now that a non-SVN owner can book their home resort weeks anytime a year out, including during the 8-month or less period.  I also agree that I expect there will be less inventory at eight months or less because I am out of the home resort preference.  But I am not ok with other owners having plenty of inventory eight months out at my home resort, while I am locked out of it.  And there is no transparency about which weeks are "moved" to the SVN pool and based on what criteria.


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## LisaRex (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> So are you saying that I can never book where I own my out of network week eight months or less prior to checkin?!



Let's consider a case where an owner purchases a 2 bdrm platinum lockoff at a resort where there are true seasons, such as SBP (plantation).  

Platinum season is weeks 9-43 and 47 (Thanksgiving).  

I've always assumed that if a resale owner hadn't booked something for weeks 9-43 before the home resort preference period ended, then he had once choice: book week 47 before that window closed.  If he didn't, he'd be out of options altogether.  

Is this not the case?   

If so, I wonder if resale WLR owners get to keep their view if they book at their home resort AFTER the 8 month window closes.


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## LisaRex (Aug 8, 2012)

djyamyam said:


> In a non-SVN SDO booking, I can book any week, any time as long as there is availability.



Interesting.  I did not know that this was the case.  Thanks for the clarification.


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## jarta (Aug 8, 2012)

Glorian,   ...   From the linked Rules:  "2-C. *An Owner whose Interval is within the Three Season Plan may seek a reservation in that Interval’s designated Season and within Unit Type that is within the Three Season Plan. **An Owner whose Interval is in the One Season Year-round Plan may seek a reservation for any Interval Week within the Use Year within any applicable Unit Type that is in the One Season Year-round Plan*. An Owner may seek other reservations only through an exchange network."

Seems to me like the above is how the inventory is split up.  One Season (1-52) owners are limited to the inventory of One Season weeks.  Three Season owners are limited to the inventory of weeks in their specific season.  Each type of owner has a different plan and different inventory.  For any Season (One or Three), inventory may be available - but only to a certain type of owner.  

So, at SDO a Platinum Three Season week in a 2-br could be available to Three Season Plat owners (and SVN StarOption traders), but would not be available to a One Season owner or Three Season Gold or Silver owners.

These restrictions seem rather unique to SDO and are not the norm at the rest of the SVO resorts.   Salty


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## djyamyam (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> Thanks Glorian.  I think it is clear now that a non-SVN owner can book their home resort weeks anytime a year out, including during the 8-month or less period.  I also agree that I expect there will be less inventory at eight months or less because I am out of the home resort preference.  But I am not ok with other owners having plenty of inventory eight months out at my home resort,
> while I am locked out of it.  And there is no transparency about which weeks are "moved" to the SVM pool and based on what criteria.



This issue happens in a number of resorts where you have both legacy (original weeks) ownerships as well as points ownership at the same resort (e.g. Kaanapali Beach Club - Diamond points owners, Marco Island - HGVC, Palm Aire - Wydham).  You have it with Starwood and soon wil have with Mariott when more DC points get sold.  What I don't like was that the change in how they allocated inventory was not communicated to owners.  I've been on the positive end of things at some of my resorts of how the inventory was allocated.  This time at SDO, I, like you, have been negatively impacted.


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

Jarta, that's an interesting observation.  The real test to that would be if an owner of a true plat week who owns plat season would call in to check if they can book those March weeks. I don't own any more true plat one season weeks...

Does anyone have a true plat SDO that is out of network and has 2013 use available? And some time on their hands to call Starwood?


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

jarta said:


> Glorian,   ...   From the linked Rules:  "2-C. *An Owner whose Interval is within the Three Season Plan may seek a reservation in that Interval’s designated Season and within Unit Type that is within the Three Season Plan. **An Owner whose Interval is in the One Season Year-round Plan may seek a reservation for any Interval Week within the Use Year within any applicable Unit Type that is in the One Season Year-round Plan*. An Owner may seek other reservations only through an exchange network."
> 
> Seems to me like the above is how the inventory is split up.  One Season (1-52) owners are limited to the inventory of One Season weeks.  Three Season owners are limited to the inventory of weeks in their specific season.  Each type of owner has a different plan and different inventory.  For any Season (One or Three), inventory may be available - but only to a certain type of owner.
> 
> ...



Good point--this would further limit the weeks available in any particular owner pool.

Glorian


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## jarta (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> Jarta, that's an interesting observation.  The real test to that would be if an owner of a true plat week who owns plat season would call in to check if they can book those March weeks. I don't own any more true plat one season weeks...
> 
> Does anyone have a true plat SDO that is out of network and has 2013 use available? And some time on their hands to call Starwood?



You just won't get off the "Starwood is stealing weeks from me" bandwagon - will you?


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## djyamyam (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> Jarta, that's an interesting observation.  The real test to that would be if an owner of a true plat week who owns plat season would call in to check if they can book those March weeks. I don't own any more true plat one season weeks...
> 
> Does anyone have a true plat SDO that is out of network and has 2013 use available? And some time on their hands to call Starwood?



Been there and tried that but stll am not able to book those weeks


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> Let's consider a case where an owner purchases a 2 bdrm platinum lockoff at a resort where there are true seasons, such as SBP (plantation).
> 
> Platinum season is weeks 9-43 and 47 (Thanksgiving).
> 
> ...



I think this would depend on the SBP Rules & Regs.  Does anyone have access to that info?  An SBP owner should be able to find it on MSC. 



LisaRex said:


> If so, I wonder if resale WLR owners get to keep their view if they book at their home resort AFTER the 8 month window closes.



I would think there is no guarantee.  Here are the WLR govering docs (it might take a bit of time to open since it's a large doc):

https://www.mystarcentral.com/CMS/e...s_Association/WLR/2383_Lagunamar_Gov_Docs.pdf

Section 13.1. (a) discusses a required "Home Resort Reservation Period."  I would think outside of that period, nothing would be guaranteed.

Of course, with WLR, Starwood created the governing docs with SVN already in place.  They didn't get to do that with SDO.

Just in case anyone is interested: 12.4 discussed the Ocean Side Unit Type & on p. 38, the actual unit numbers are listed.

Glorian


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

Really? So you own a true plat and are not able to book those weeks either? Then they really moved them to the SVN pool only! 



djyamyam said:


> Been there and tried that but stll am not able to book those weeks


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

I guess I have to keep an eye on them  I always wonder what they will do next and what it means to us owners.



jarta said:


> You just won't get off the "Starwood is stealing weeks from me" bandwagon - will you?


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## Beefnot (Aug 8, 2012)

Why does two pools of inventory mean that Starwood cannot pull from one pool of inventory to make sure that owners always have access to their home resort if there is availability in either pool?  Seems like a basic right.


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Why does two pools of inventory mean that Starwood cannot pull from one pool of inventory to make sure that owners always have access to their home resort if there is availability in either pool?  Seems like a basic right.



I don't agree that this as a basic right in all cases.  Let me give you an example: I own an SDO unit that is in SVN.  At 12 mos. out, I reserved a March 23, 2013 check-in date at SDO.  On July 23, 2012, I called Starwood to see if I could make a StarOptions exchange for a different resort for a March 23, 2013 check-in.  There was availability, and so I gave up my SDO reservation, and reserved at the other resort.

So my March 23 week at SDO is now available.  Who should get this week?  A non-SVN SDO owner?  Or, another SVN owner?  I think it should go to the SVN pool and be available to an SVN owner.

Glorian


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2012)

grgs said:


> I don't agree that this as a basic right in all cases.  Let me give you an example: I own an SDO unit that is in SVN.  At 12 mos. out, I reserved a March 23, 2013 check-in date at SDO.  On July 23, 2012, I called Starwood to see if I could make a StarOptions exchange for a different resort for a March 23, 2013 check-in.  There was availability, and so I gave up my SDO reservation, and reserved at the other resort.
> 
> So my March 23 week at SDO is now available.  Who should get this week?  A non-SVN SDO owner?  Or, another SVN owner?  I think it should go to the SVN pool and be available to an SVN owner.
> 
> Glorian



From what I understand, this is exactly correct. I believe the overall issue is a lack of transparency, which only increases potential confusion. If Starwood would make inventory available for review and oversight by owners (perhaps using an online reservation system...) I think this issue could be resolved by most.


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

Glorian, I respectfully disagree. SVN is an internal exchange system that Starwood developed for its members, it's a privilege secondary to home resort ownership.  Weeks should be made available to home resort owners first, and then to some secondary exchange system.  Or at least be available to both - without locking owners out of their home resort.


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## jarta (Aug 8, 2012)

Starwood should not follow the rules because you don't like them and they interfere with your "basic rights."  Is that what you are advocating?  

Good grief!  Let me know where these "basic rights" come from.   Salty


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> Glorian, I respectfully disagree. SVN is an internal exchange system that Starwood developed for its members, it's a privilege secondary to home resort ownership.  Weeks should be made available to home resort owners first, and then to some secondary exchange system.  Or at least be available to both - without locking owners out of their home resort.



Really? Here's how I believe it works:

Non-SVN (resale) owner scenario:

1. Reserve at home resort (SDO)
2. Deposit at exchange company

Weeks owned by non-SVN owners are not available to SVN members.

SVN owner scenario:

1. Reserve at home resort 
2. Deposit at exchange company
3. Exchange to another SVN resort using SOs

If the SVN owner exchanges to another SVN property, the SVN club should get their deeded usage week - otherwise, there is no balance and the club wouldn't have sufficient weeks for the owners.


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## RLG (Aug 8, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> Since March is 7 months out, the home resort preference period has closed, and they were actually being nice to allow you to book anything at all without using SOs -- at least under their published rules.




Lisa, you've already been told that this is NOT CORRECT.  I don't know where you got this idea, but please stop repeating it.  People who own non-SVN weeks can reserve at the resort they own if there's availability anytime up until the check in date.


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## Beefnot (Aug 8, 2012)

jarta said:


> Starwood should not follow the rules because you don't like them and they interfere with your "basic rights."  Is that what you are advocating?
> 
> Good grief!  Let me know where these "basic rights" come from.   Salty



The rules are what they are.  Doesn't make them fair.  The "basic right" to which I was referring was theoretical rather than conferred.


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> The rules are what they are.  Doesn't make them fair.  The "basic right" to which I was referring was theoretical rather than conferred.



I think the only SVN basic right is to pay $$$ for developer weeks and get fancy luggage tags. :hysterical:


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

So Ken, you are saying all those March weeks available for SVN owners only are all in-network weeks - none of them are units owned by non-SVN owners? They are all units that owners who are SVN members released into the network?

Ok, but since all these weeks are floating and not fixed, how does Starwood decides which inventory to assign to each pool? Take an extreme scenario. Assume for example everyone who owns at SDO but me all of a sudden joins SVN, I am the only out of network owner at this resort.  There should only be one week available for me to book in my pool of inventory.  What week is that? Who decides and how?


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

I am loving this thread. 

Thanks all for the input, it's very interesting conversation - this is like a puzzle I am really trying to grasp. 

That's funny Ken.



Ken555 said:


> I think the only SVN basic right is to pay $$$ for developer weeks and get fancy luggage tags. :hysterical:


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> So Ken, you are saying all those March weeks available for SVN owners only are all in-network weeks - none of them are units owned by non-SVN owners? They are all units that owners who are SVN members released into the network?



Yes, though Starwood may also have some developer weeks they use in this pool of weeks.



> Ok, but since all these weeks are floating and not fixed, how does Starwood decides which inventory to assign to each pool? Take an extreme scenario. Assume for example everyone who owns at SDO but me all of a sudden joins SVN, I am the only out of network owner at this resort.  There should only be one week available for me to book in my pool of inventory.  What week is that? Who decides and how?



This is exactly the issue I mentioned earlier re lack of transparency and resulting confusion. Trust SVN. Trust Starwood. They are your friends. Really.


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## jarta (Aug 8, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> From what I understand, this is exactly correct. I believe the overall issue is a lack of transparency, which only increases potential confusion. If Starwood would make inventory available for review and oversight by owners (perhaps using an online reservation system...) I think this issue could be resolved by most.



The confusion (and it's not just potential confusion) comes from Vistana's hare-brained system I posted that everyone's now stuck with.  At SDO, unlike most timeshare resorts, there is not one inventory pool.  There are four separate inventory pools to administer.

It would be nice if - just once - someone posted a verifiable situation where Starwood was caught stealing weeks from an inventory pool.  But, all we get here on TUG are unsupported allegations of fraud by management and the HOA boards.   Salty


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2012)

jarta said:


> The confusion (and it's not just potential confusion) comes from Vistana's hare-brained system I posted that everyone's now stuck with.  At SDO, unlike most timeshare resorts, there is not one inventory pool.  There are four separate inventory pools to administer.
> 
> It would be nice if - just once - someone posted a verifiable situation where Starwood was caught stealing weeks from an inventory pool.  But, all we get here on TUG are unsupported allegations of fraud by management and the HOA boards.   Salty



Facts would be helpful. 

I think most who post about this and other related issues are doing so out of frustration of not understanding how the overall process works. That many of the SVN operators often don't relay the complete story on the phone (either they aren't aware of the myriad of rules and policies at each resort or simply don't think it's worth being exact) simply increases the confusion. Being told "no availability" is never a good thing, and a lot can be said about a company based on how they deal with these type of situations. Most SVN operators I've spoken with seem to be knowledgable, but when I ask a question about inventory management I only get a generic answer in response...which only feeds the overall confusion amongst those of us who want an exact and accurate answer.


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

I think an informed owner should ask such questions and not assume that if something looks funny, it's because we the owners don't understand Starwood's kind workings.

Bottom line here is that the weeks that are currently available to book in March should be available to non SVN-owners as well. If the week in that SVN pool was released by a true plat season owner, that week should be made available to an SDO true plat owner that's out of network. SVN and non-SVN distinctions should be secondary to home resort ownership distinctions.  SVN is a paid secondary privillege - an internal exchange system - it should not come before home resort ownership.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 8, 2012)

I think it is better to move one week for each week being used in SVN than to allow more people trading in through SVN than out. 

Example (very simplified- ignores RCI and II and starpoints:  Lets say only 10% of owners exchange out using SVN.  20% of owners are staying at SDO make there reservation to use at 10-12 months.  The other 70% of owners all wait until 6 months or less to make reservations.  In the mean time SVN members start booking at 8 months and take up the equivalent of  50% of SDO's inventory.  In this scenario not only are the late bookers blocked out of certain weeks the resort but up to 40% of the owners would have no weeks available because they are all booked by SVN members.

Unless there are 0 low season weeks in SVN, Starwood is making somewhat of an effort to blending the weeks it removes from non SVN owners.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> SVN is a paid secondary privillege - an internal exchange system - it should not come before home resort ownership.



As a resale owner I have always been made to feel that to Starwood, SVN comes first.  To starwood resale owners at voluntary resorts are second class citizens lucky to get the scraps that they allow us to have.


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> I believe the overall issue is a lack of transparency, which only increases potential confusion.



I agree.  I wish we had a better understanding of how inventory is managed among different pools.


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## l2trade (Aug 8, 2012)

What happened to all the March inventory for this non-SVN resale, 2BD SDO 1-52 owner?

1. Start with giant pool of ALL SDO 2 Bedroom villas x 52 weeks.
2. Remove all seasonal deeds (villas & owners)
3. Remove all SVN deeds (villas & owners)
4. *Remove II/RCI weeks based on inventory forecasts for bulk banking to generate generic seasonal values*
5. Reserve developer owned weeks, not included in #3 above
6. Reserve foreclosed weeks, not included in #3 above
7. Forecast lockout split of remaining 2 bedroom villas

As you can imagine, what is left over for home resort reservations is not much and it is also spread throughout the 52 weeks, with #5 & #6 grabbing some of the best weeks (i.e. March) from that pool. Then, you have those early morning, 365 days in advance reservation phone calls from resale owners who rent out spring training weeks as a business fighting for the few remaining weeks. For every March home resort reservation, in theory, there should be 11 other owners in this pool reserving during other months... lol! Why reserve summer at SDO home resort when you can exchange for something better and pick up a cheap summer getaway at SDO instead?


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## pathways25 (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> I think an informed owner should ask such questions and not assume that if something looks funny, it's because we the owners don't understand Starwood's kind workings.
> 
> Bottom line here is that the weeks that are currently available to book in March should be available to non SVN-owners as well. If the week in that SVN pool was released by a true plat season owner, that week should be made available to an SDO true plat owner that's out of network. SVN and non-SVN distinctions should be secondary to home resort ownership distinctions.  SVN is a paid secondary privillege - an internal exchange system - it should not come before home resort ownership.



As I believe Ken previously mentioned, keeping the inventory separate between SVN weeks and non-SVN weeks is necessary to maintain balance in the system.

SDO is one of the resorts where I think it's very likely that more SVN owners trade out than trade in.  After all, for SVN owners looking to reserve in Scottsdale, most would probably opt for WKV over SDO, at least until there was no more inventory at WKV.  This makes it easy to envision a situation where SVN inventory piles up at SDO even as non-SVN weeks become depleted.

The opposite situation probably exists at HRA where more SVN owners are trying to trade in rather than trade out.  If HRA were not mandatory and Starwood didn't keep separate inventory between SVN and non-SVN weeks, at 8 months inventory would be cleaned out by SVN trades leaving owners there nothing to reserve at less than 8 months.  That wouldn't be fair, right?


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## timeos2 (Aug 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Why does two pools of inventory mean that Starwood cannot pull from one pool of inventory to make sure that owners always have access to their home resort if there is availability in either pool?  Seems like a basic right.



Because in a properly & fairly run system, which cannot be verified when a developer/management/system operator are all in one, the percentage of different types of ownerships is the basis for the reservation assignments. So if there are 40% weeks owners, 45% points owners and 15% delinquent (thus eligible for HOA renting) then any individual week should be assigned in those percentages to each pool. Once the pool that a specific owner is in runs dry then that week is "sold out" to them even if there are more units available to the other pools of users. 

If you don't do that then one group or another can get an unfair claim to the best times. Unfortunately history says that when you give all the control to one source rather than independent management then the split tends toward favoring whatever group the management feels will benefit them most. And it usually isn't the owners. Another big reason not to own in a developer controlled resort or system.


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> Bottom line here is that the weeks that are currently available to book in March should be available to non SVN-owners as well. If the week in that SVN pool was released by a true plat season owner, that week should be made available to an SDO true plat owner that's out of network. SVN and non-SVN distinctions should be secondary to home resort ownership distinctions.  SVN is a paid secondary privillege - an internal exchange system - it should not come before home resort ownership.



I respectfully disagree with this.  Once an SDO owner makes an SO reservation, that week should move to the SVN pool.  However, I absolutely believe *all* SDO owners should have an opportunity to make SDO reservations before SVN owners try to make SO exchanges.

What concerns me is that at 12 months, SDO owners reported having trouble making reservations (including myself).

Glorian


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## bogey21 (Aug 8, 2012)

Can we all agree that it shouldn't be this complicated?

George


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## Beefnot (Aug 8, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Because in a properly & fairly run system, which cannot be verified when a developer/management/system operator are all in one, the percentage of different types of ownerships is the basis for the reservation assignments. So if there are 40% weeks owners, 45% points owners and 15% delinquent (thus eligible for HOA renting) then any individual week should be assigned in those percentages to each pool. Once the pool that a specific owner is in runs dry then that week is "sold out" to them even if there are more units available to the other pools of users.



Granted, I'm not all that savvy with understanding point system machinations, but in your scenario, how would the pool ever run dry for a weeks owner?  I can only see a pool running dry when less inventory is allocated to the pool than can accommodate total participants of that pool.


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## YYJMSP (Aug 8, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> I think the only SVN basic right is to pay $$$ for developer weeks and get fancy luggage tags. :hysterical:



Luggage tags?  Did someone say luggage tags?  Gotta get me some more luggage tags...  

They should give them out for attending an Owner's Update.


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## YYJMSP (Aug 8, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Because in a properly & fairly run system, which cannot be verified when a developer/management/system operator are all in one, the percentage of different types of ownerships is the basis for the reservation assignments. So if there are 40% weeks owners, 45% points owners and 15% delinquent (thus eligible for HOA renting) then any individual week should be assigned in those percentages to each pool. Once the pool that a specific owner is in runs dry then that week is "sold out" to them even if there are more units available to the other pools of users.



Wouldn't you also have to factor seasons in as well?  So the 40% weeks owners would really break down further to 4 separate groups at SDO?

The more you analyze it, the more complex it gets...


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## YYJMSP (Aug 8, 2012)

grgs said:


> However, I absolutely believe *all* SDO owners should have an opportunity to make SDO reservations before SVN owners try to make SO exchanges.



But don't all SDO owners have their shot at a reservation of their choice (first come, first served, subject to availability) at 12-8 months out, regardless of resale vs. SVN?


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## Beefnot (Aug 8, 2012)

YYJMSP said:


> But don't all SDO owners have their shot at a reservation of their choice (first come, first served, subject to availability) at 12-8 months out, regardless of resale vs. SVN?



Ok, so does that mean that at 7 months, Starwood collects any unclaimed weeks and dumps them over into the SVN pool and tells the weeks owners "too bad, you had your chance"?  If so, then yeah, them's the rules, but seems like some screwy rules.  If the weeks owner wants to book at 7 months, or 5 months, or 3 days out, whatever, if the inventory that was dumped over the fence into the SVN pool is still available, why can't they book it?  Because once it is dumped over the fence, the source is no longer trackable?


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## jarta (Aug 8, 2012)

"Bottom line here is that the weeks that are currently available to book in March should be available to non SVN-owners as well. If the week in that SVN pool was released by a true plat season owner, that week should be made available to an SDO true plat owner that's out of network."

ada,   ...   You still don't seem to get that there are 4 seasons and 4 separate pools of weeks at SDO because that's how Vistana set it up.  The 4 pools are One Season (1-52), Three Season Platinum, Three Season Gold and Three Season Silver.

The weeks that are available in a particular season's pool are available to both SVN and non-SVN SDO owners in that season during the 12-8 month window​.  But, if an SDO owner owns in a season, that owner will only be able to reserve an available week in that season's pool.  That owner will not be able to reserve a week in another season's pool - unless through an SVN StarOption reservation.

SVN StarOption reservations can only be made within 8 months from arrival.  So, if a particular SDO week is not available in the 12-8 month window for home resort reservations of a particular type of unit, it's *not* due to a reservation having been made using StarOptions.  Any reservations made that fill up the availabilty for that week from that season's pool for a particular type of unit have to have been made by float owners of that type of unit in that season or owners in season who have fixed their week.

Prior to the II changes made a few years ago, these prime weeks in March and April were reserved by SDO owners who would then deposit them in II.  That has ended.  Since the persons who will deposit the SDO week in II don't gain an advantage by depositing a prime week in II, they no longer ask to reserve them.  Those who want those prime weeks now rent them to keep them and go to SDO or, if in SVN, sometimes to hold something good at SDO as insurance in case they can't find a better place using their StarOptions.

The fact that a particular week is now easier to reserve for those who want to go to SDO during the week reserved or use it as a placeholder does not mean that the weeks will not fill up early during the 12-8 month window (sort of like a deposit of a specific Starwood week in II with a request for something in HI).

The One Season SDO owners still compete with all Other One Season SDO owners for the prime weeks in March and April.  Same for the true Plat SDO owners competing with the other true Plat SDO owners.  A prime week is a prime week, no matter where the resort is located.

I assume the SDO prime weeks that become available at less than 8 months from arrival primarily result from SDO owners who are in SVN making their prime SDO week reservation early but cancelling the SDO reservation if they find an opening at the more desirable WKV for the same week. Or, they reserve at places like WDW, or WMH, or HRA, or WKORV/N, or WPORV in the less than 8 month window.

I agree that 4 months to make a reservation is all that need be offered for home resort owners.  If you can't make your reservation by 8 months from arrival, other ways of filling up the resort should occur.  That's the point of the SVN pool.  When SDO owners take an SVN pool unit, I agree that they should replace the unit taken from the SVN pool.  

However, I would not prevent reservation access to SDO owners in the season where the SDO week originated.  If they are the first to call for an open unit, I believe it should go to whomever calls first.  But, I'm not on the SDO board.  And, in truth, SDO (and its owners) need Starwood and the Starwood preference much more than Starwood needs SDO.  So, I wouldn't expect any change - assuming there is no access now.     Salty


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## ada903 (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes, I am totally getting that, and that is exactly why I referred in my example to one of the four pools - the three season platinum.  

When an owner purchases a week in one of these buckets - assume my example for the three season platinum - that owner should have the right to book a floating week in his platinum season pool.  Starwood is locking the owner out of his right eight months prior to check-in by coming up with an additional designation that some of the weeks in this pool are now "SVN" and are no longer available to the three season plat owner, only to other owners who are in the network.

An owner's deed states the owner's right to book units in his float season, and the declaration of condominium lists all those units by unit numbers.  There is nothing in there about SVN - just an owner's right to book the units listed on the declaration of condo, in his season and unit size.  Why should those units be no longer accessible to an owner in his season and his pool, while they are accessible to other resort owners?  

Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining there is no availability at booking eight months out, I am ok if it's too late and there is no availability - I have to book most of my books 12 months out and I am ok with that - but the fact that there is availability but owners are locked out of reaching it in their own season and inventory pool - I find that bothersome. 



jarta said:


> "Bottom line here is that the weeks that are currently available to book in March should be available to non SVN-owners as well. If the week in that SVN pool was released by a true plat season owner, that week should be made available to an SDO true plat owner that's out of network."
> 
> ada,   ...   You still don't seem to get that there are 4 seasons and 4 separate pools of weeks at SDO because that's how Vistana set it up.  The 4 pools are One Season (1-52), Three Season Platinum, Three Season Gold and Three Season Silver.
> 
> ...


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

YYJMSP said:


> But don't all SDO owners have their shot at a reservation of their choice (first come, first served, subject to availability) at 12-8 months out, regardless of resale vs. SVN?



Yes, that's what I thought until this past March--when I (and others) reported not being able to get our units reserved at 12 mos. out.  At first I thought I missed out because I didn't call first thing in the morning, but waited until the afternoon.  But then another Tugger reported that it was due to a new "predictive model" of inventory management being implemented.   Admittedly, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with SVN owners making reservations--unless Starwood's new model transferred weeks to the SVN pool in advance of the 8 mo. window.

Glorian


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## tschwa2 (Aug 8, 2012)

ada903 said:


> An owner's deed states the owner's right to book units in his float season, and the declaration of condominium lists all those units by unit numbers.  There is nothing in there about SVN - just an owner's right to book the units listed on the declaration of condo, in his season and unit size.  Why should those units be no longer accessible to an owner in his season and his pool, while they are accessible to other resort owners?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining there is no availability at booking eight months out, I am ok if it's too late and there is no availability - I have to book most of my books 12 months out and I am ok with that - but the fact that there is availability but owners are locked out of reaching it in their own season and inventory pool - I find that bothersome.



Think of SVN as an exchange company.  Once a week is removed from the owners pool it is no longer available to the owners.  When an SVN owner uses options or fails to reserve at the home resort and the unit is automatically converted to options (at 8 or whatever month it happens) for the owner it is gone.  There is nothing about II or RCI in the owners manual but owners who belong to those companies have access to those weeks deposited that others do not.


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## l2trade (Aug 8, 2012)

Those II and RCI deposits are held back before 12 months based on predicted inventory assignments.  Starwood even bulk banks some weeks > 1 year out, just look at recent sightings for proof.  This is the only way to establish an average seasonal value with the exchange company.  If owners got first crack at all the units 12 months out, the average seasonal values would become way below average seasonal values. If you own resale SDO and want March week, you may have better odds placing an II pending request 18 months out in the coming years.


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## LisaRex (Aug 8, 2012)

RLG said:


> Lisa, you've already been told that this is NOT CORRECT.  I don't know where you got this idea, but please stop repeating it.  People who own non-SVN weeks can reserve at the resort they own if there's availability anytime up until the check in date.



Didn't mean to pass along bad information.  It was an honest mistake.  I thought everyone operated under the same set of rules, with the only difference being voluntary resale owners had to use II for exchanges after the 8 month window closed because they were shut out of SVN. I understand now that there's a different set of rules for voluntary resale owners.   They can reserve anytime, but only if there's availability in the non-SVN pool.  

Honestly, I don't know how anyone keeps this all straight.


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2012)

l2trade said:


> Those II and RCI deposits are held back before 12 months based on predicted inventory assignments.  Starwood even bulk banks some weeks > 1 year out, just look at recent sightings for proof.  This is the only way to establish an average seasonal value with the exchange company.  If owners got first crack at all the units 12 months out, the average seasonal values would become way below average seasonal values. If you own resale SDO and want March week, you may have better odds placing an II pending request 18 months out in the coming years.



Good point, but this is only for those who want to use the week. If you want to rent it, you can't reserve via an exchange company and must reserve your week direct.


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## Ken555 (Aug 8, 2012)

LisaRex said:


> Honestly, I don't know how anyone keeps this all straight.



Now we're on to something. Who do you think the complexity helps? Hint: it's not us.

OMG: I just noticed I have 4000 posts on TUG. I need to find a new hobby.


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## grgs (Aug 8, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> OMG: I just noticed I have 4000 posts on TUG. I need to find a new hobby.



Congrats!  That's quite a milestone!


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## alexadeparis (Aug 9, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> As a resale owner I have always been made to feel that to Starwood, SVN comes first.  To starwood resale owners at voluntary resorts are second class citizens lucky to get the scraps that they allow us to have.



Which is exactly why I deeded back my voluntary resale unit and bought "retail".


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## jkrischt (Aug 9, 2012)

grgs said:


> Yes, that's what I thought until this past March--when I (and others) reported not being able to get our units reserved at 12 mos. out.  At first I thought I missed out because I didn't call first thing in the morning, but waited until the afternoon.  But then another Tugger reported that it was due to a new "predictive model" of inventory management being implemented.   Admittedly, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with SVN owners making reservations--unless Starwood's new model transferred weeks to the SVN pool in advance of the 8 mo. window.
> 
> Glorian



I may be in the minority here, but I think the predictive model is the best way to ensure the system works correctly.

The only way to make trading within SVN fair is that when someone trades using StarOptions their week goes back in to SVN for another StarOptions trade.  That seems completely fair to me.  Quite frankly, if I used my SDO unit to trade in to another resort using SVN I would NOT want a resale owner to snag the week I gave up.  I would want someone else who gave up their resort to SVN to have my week.  Its nothing against resale owners (I am myself), its just that I want to make sure what gets put in to SVN stays there.

Furthermore, as someone who is part of SVN, I want that pool to be predicted.  Think about this scenario where someone wants to book a week in March through SVN.  8 months out from March would be July.  How many people have truly traded their SDO unit to a different resort in SVN?  Maybe 25% since March is about 25% in to the year?  Its probably more like 10% since most people realistically don't call 8 months out.  That means they don't have a fair amount of weeks available in SVN yet for trades in to March unless they predict it.

I'd like to think they have the statistics for the percentage of people who end up converting to SVN.  And now they can predict that for each year and spread out the units that get deposited to SVN evenly across all the weeks.  They probably have been collecting that for years (but maybe thats a bad assumption through considering we still don't have an online booking system.)

The key word is transparency...are they distributing all those units predicted to be traded in to SVN evenly to all the weeks?  For example, if they predict 104 weeks will be traded in to SVN from SDO, will each week 1 through 52 get 2 units each for SVN trades?  Or are they unfairly giving extra weeks in March to make owners in SVN more happy?

Brad


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## grgs (Aug 9, 2012)

jkrischt said:


> The only way to make trading within SVN fair is that when someone trades using StarOptions their week goes back in to SVN for another StarOptions trade.  That seems completely fair to me.  Quite frankly, if I used my SDO unit to trade in to another resort using SVN I would NOT want a resale owner to snag the week I gave up.  I would want someone else who gave up their resort to SVN to have my week.  Its nothing against resale owners (I am myself), its just that I want to make what gets put in to SVN stays there.



I don't disagree with this.



jkrischt said:


> Furthermore, as someone who is part of SVN, I want that pool to be predicted.  Think about this scenario where someone wants to book a week in March through SVN.  8 months out from March would be July.  How many people have truly traded their SDO unit to a different resort in SVN?  Maybe 25% since March is about 25% in to the year?  Its probably more like 10% since most people realistically don't call 8 months out.  That means they don't have a fair amount of weeks available in SVN yet for trades in to March unless they predict it.



I wouldn't have as much of an issue with Starwood moving inventory into the SVN pool* right before the 8 month* mark to accommodate anticipated SO requests.  My issue is that *at 12 months out* SDO owners were getting locked out.  That says to me the predictive model was off (at least for this year).

For the record, I currently own SDO units that are both in and out of SVN (although, soon all my SDO units will be in SVN).  Regardless, it seems to me that all SDO owners should only have to compete with other SDO owners for reservations at 12-8 months out; they should not have to compete with _anticipated_ SO reservations.



jkrischt said:


> The key word is transparency...are they distributing all those units predicted to be traded in to SVN evenly to all the weeks?  For example, if they predict 104 weeks will be traded in to SVN from SDO, will each week 1 through 52 get 2 units each for SVN trades?  Or are they unfairly giving extra weeks in March to make owners in SVN more happy?



Yes, that would be very good to know. 

Glorian


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## Beefnot (Aug 9, 2012)

jkrischt said:


> Quite frankly, if I used my SDO unit to trade in to another resort using SVN I would NOT want a resale owner to snag the week I gave up.  I would want someone else who gave up their resort to SVN to have my week.  Its nothing against resale owners (I am myself), its just that I want to make what gets put in to SVN stays there.



I think I see where you're going, although realistically speaking you probably wouldn't technically care who snagged your week.  One would really only care about what you allude to in the last sentence, that if they are an SVN owner, they know they have access to inventory deposited by SVN owners and not have it gobbled up by non-SVN owners.  Somewhat semantic, but I think I understand your point.



> Furthermore, as someone who is part of SVN, I want that pool to be predicted.  Think about this scenario where someone wants to book a week in March through SVN.  8 months out from March would be July.  How many people have truly traded their SDO unit to a different resort in SVN?  Maybe 25% since March is about 25% in to the year?  Its probably more like 10% since most people realistically don't call 8 months out.  That means they don't have a fair amount of weeks available in SVN yet for trades in to March unless they predict it.



Agreed.  However, is there a mechanism in the current system that allows for predictive flaws to be managed around?  If deeded owner demand outstrips the supply allotted per Starwood's predictive modeling, is there a way for them to pull weeks back from somewhere (e.g., II, SVN, etc.) to accommodate that owner?  If the answer is no, then some folks might take exception.



> The key word is transparency...are they distributing all those units predicted to be traded in to SVN evenly to all the weeks?  For example, if they predict 104 weeks will be traded in to SVN from SDO, will each week 1 through 52 get 2 units each for SVN trades?  Or are they unfairly giving extra weeks in March to make owners in SVN more happy?



Good point.  Transparency would allow folks not only to better understand, but to also have a basis of knowledge rather than speculation from which to challenge policy around pool administration.


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