# Hawaii



## Citygal (Apr 27, 2021)

The Maui property looks like paradise.  I have some questions for you wonderful people in the know.  First, why are so many available (for sale on Redweek)?  Second, what do you think would be a good price for a two-bedroom oceanfront EOY?  The assessments are $3,000/year, but my thinking is that it is worth it if I would use it because it would be hard to trade into for the weeks that I want.  Sounds like it is hard to trade into period, and I'm stuck with the school schedule for vacation planning.  Thank you wonderful people.  I'm new to timeshares.  Always thought/heard they were a bad investment.  But, it seems to me to be a good way to have a washer/dryer at a reasonable price... and, again, that Maui property looks like paradise.


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## Kal (Apr 27, 2021)

I just attended the Maui presentation 2 weeks ago.  Their pricing highly favors existing Hyatt RC owners with the discounts.  For owners the price for Week 13, 14 or 15, mid-band 2 BR, EOY was $30,000. The "list price" for non-HRC owners is about $37,000 ($43,250 - $4,325 - $1,800).  I believe the price would be higher for winter weeks when all the whales are present.  The 10% Covid discount won't last long. Don't let the idea of renting your unit be a factor.  The rental rates they use are meaningless.  Units are generally not available thru HRC as Hyatt pushes hard on owners renting the units themselves.

Keep in mind a timeshare is NOT AN INVESTMENT.  It's prepaid vacation.  And the resort is indeed magnificent!


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## echino (Apr 27, 2021)

First, all 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom units are "ocean view". There are no "oceanfront" or any other views, and there are no fixed units.

If you buy the fixed week you know you will use, then it may be an OK deal. Expect the resale value to go down in time.


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## Kal (Apr 27, 2021)

There are also "floating week" units where you have the option to select any week (except for a few) during the year.  You only compete with other floating week owners, rather than the entire population of all week owners.  The prices for floating weeks are about $1,000 higher.


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## Citygal (Apr 27, 2021)

echino said:


> First, all 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom units are "ocean view". There are no "oceanfront" or any other views, and there are no fixed units.
> 
> If you buy the fixed week you know you will use, then it may be an OK deal. Expect the resale value to go down in time.


Can I ask how you like your Westin St. John compared to your Westin Maui?


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## echino (Apr 27, 2021)

Citygal said:


> Can I ask how you like your Westin St. John compared to your Westin Maui?



Both are great!


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## csodjd (Apr 27, 2021)

Citygal said:


> The Maui property looks like paradise.  I have some questions for you wonderful people in the know.  First, why are so many available (for sale on Redweek)?  Second, what do you think would be a good price for a two-bedroom oceanfront EOY?  The assessments are $3,000/year, but my thinking is that it is worth it if I would use it because it would be hard to trade into for the weeks that I want.  Sounds like it is hard to trade into period, and I'm stuck with the school schedule for vacation planning.  Thank you wonderful people.  I'm new to timeshares.  Always thought/heard they were a bad investment.  But, it seems to me to be a good way to have a washer/dryer at a reasonable price... and, again, that Maui property looks like paradise.


I can't comment on price because I don't know. I own next door at Marriott. We spent a fair amount of time at the Hyatt last month because, well, they had a lot more open than Marriott. It's a really nice property. Great pool. Bars. Food. Etc. The residence works together with the hotel, sharing the amenities. Not much bad to say about the Hyatt.


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## Citygal (Apr 27, 2021)

For those of you who have made lots of purchases.  Comments on RedWeek (the legit RedWeek as I got through the website).  Would it make sense for me to pay the $1,000 deposit as well as this year's maintenance of $3,000, in order to make sure that I get an August reservation?  Apparently, I need to make this down payment so that my name will be put on the reservation in case the closing is not completed in time for the August booking.  I don't have a problem with this, as long as I am protected.  The reason why the sale might take longer is that there is a mortgage.  I don't think this is a scam, but I have never been through the timeshare process before.  This is why I would not go through eBay.  Also, we haven't passed Hyatt's ROFR yet but I think we will.  If we don't, I guess the deal is off.  Just want advice in case anyone has any.


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## dmelcher13 (Apr 27, 2021)

Citygal said:


> For those of you who have made lots of purchases. Comments on RedWeek (the legit RedWeek as I got through the website). Would it make sense for me to pay the $1,000 deposit as well as this year's maintenance of $3,000, in order to make sure that I get an August reservation? Apparently, I need to make this down payment so that my name will be put on the reservation in case the closing is not completed in time for the August booking. I don't have a problem with this, as long as I am protected. The reason why the sale might take longer is that there is a mortgage. I don't think this is a scam, but I have never been through the timeshare process before. This is why I would not go through eBay. Also, we haven't passed Hyatt's ROFR yet but I think we will. If we don't, I guess the deal is off. Just want advice in case anyone has any.



It sounds like you are already at the point of an accepted purchase agreement. I would have included terms in the purchase agreement that the seller is to pay the current years maintenance fee and they are to book the owned week. You should also request your name to be added on a guest certificate. Your purchase price would then be adjusted to include the maintenance fee reimbursement. I assume the deposit you are referring to is your escrow payment? IMO you shouldn’t be paying anything except the minimum escrow payment at this point. All other expenses (maintenance fee) should be part of the purchase and subject to the agreed upon terms.

I did this same thing on another purchase earlier this year.

ROFR is 15 days I think at Maui. The actual transfer process takes near 90 days to get through Hyatt.


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## Kal (Apr 27, 2021)

You need to make sure there is a clause in the sales agreement which precisely specifies all the elements of Refunding.  That's generally the difference between renting a hotel room and renting a timeshare unit.  The hotel could likely provide a full refund for a period longer than maybe 24-48 hours before occupancy.  It is difficult to cancel a timeshare rental less than 6 months out.

If you have already executed an agreement, but have not paid any money, I would go back to the seller and add an addendum to the agreement which specifies refunding provisions.


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## PerryKing (Apr 28, 2021)

Kal said:


> I just attended the Maui presentation 2 weeks ago.  Their pricing highly favors existing Hyatt RC owners with the discounts.  For owners the price for Week 13, 14 or 15, mid-band 2 BR, EOY was $30,000. The "list price" for non-HRC owners is about $37,000 ($43,250 - $4,325 - $1,800).  I believe the price would be higher for winter weeks when all the whales are present.  The 10% Covid discount won't last long. Don't let the idea of renting your unit be a factor.  The rental rates they use are meaningless.  Units are generally not available thru HRC as Hyatt pushes hard on owners renting the units themselves.
> 
> Keep in mind a timeshare is NOT AN INVESTMENT.  It's prepaid vacation.  And the resort is indeed magnificent!
> 
> View attachment 34998


Units are generally not available thru HRC *as Hyatt pushes hard on owners renting the units themselves.   ???*


Wondering if you could expand on this statement.  Just what do you mean that Hyatt pushes hard on ?  And how and who do they push ?


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## Kal (Apr 28, 2021)

PerryKing said:


> Units are generally not available thru HRC *as Hyatt pushes hard on owners renting the units themselves.   ???*
> 
> 
> Wondering if you could expand on this statement.  Just what do you mean that Hyatt pushes hard on ?  And how and who do they push ?


During the presentation, a handout was provided showing the rack rates to rent the 2 BR timeshare unit (see image).  Then they offer at least two ways for the owner to rent the unit - Hyatt and a local rental agent.  Renting the unit would quickly off-set the MF and purchase price.  Then they compare the daily rates at the Hyatt Regency next door.  A basic room (garden view) goes for $550/night before all the add-ons.  Thus an owner could receive up to $11,000 for the week rental.  Subtract the $3,000 MF and the ROI makes the price attractive.  This information is also readily made available on the internet to owners.  I would assume this would be covered during "owner update" meetings.


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## PerryKing (Apr 28, 2021)

Thank You.   I see  then, I guess you mean it as a sales technique,  i.e. The Sales people are  telling potential buyers how they could easily rent their units .  Which I'm sure would be  much harder than they claim and at very inflated rates  which probably are not realistic.  Iven run into that type of pitch other  times in other brand time she presentations, (especially Mexican ones) but never during a Hyatt one.

  They should know better to do that.  Makes me wonder if in their disclosure documents Hyatt Resident Club  still tells buyers and potential buyers that *" buying a Times share is not an investment" ??  *


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## Kal (Apr 29, 2021)

When I sat down for the presentation, I told the huckster that I DO NOT make a 5-figure decision in short order. I said at best I would have to go away and think about it and maybe get back to him in a few days or a week.  And yes, I understand any immediate discounts would evaporate when I walked out the door.  I also commented that if those discounts are real, they would still be good in a week or so.  To my surprise, he agreed, but continued to pester me by email and text messaging for the next 5 days.

I actually ran the numbers for renting using my own estimates, but would have liked to chat with the "local outside rental guy" to see what he is seeing and his FEE$.  Of course I would need to include the "opportunity cost" of making the initial purchase.  The numbers didn't come close to penciling out even if I assumed MF would remain at $3,000 and I used a very modest opportunity cost.  Even then, why even consider a timeshare as a money making proposition????

Going in, my wife made me promise it wouldn't be a sporting event where I could engage the guy and turn him upside down with his own arguments.  He did score some points when he told me the Welk/Hyatt deal would not be finalized until Welk's contract with RCI expires in 2 years.  He also scored when he told me never to let Hyatt rent your unit.  It's a black hole with no communications, a high fee and no guarantee.

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 29, 2021)

I love this resort. We had a promotional stay in a 2bdrm several years ago (would love to get that promo again).  We also heard the pitch on rentals. I was intrigued about having Hyatt manage it but now I know better based on this thread. We had reasonable sales people. Not high pressure.

Would love to buy at this resort if resale prices decline. The Hyatt doesn't seem as crowded as the Marriott or Westins. We ultimately opted to buy at the Westin up the road because we could get it resale for less than half the cost of the Hyatt.  The beach at the Westin is larger and nicer. We weren't sure we could commit to fixed weeks at Hyatt.


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## Kal (Apr 29, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> .... We weren't sure we could commit to fixed weeks at Hyatt.


Hyatt Maui is also pushing "float week ownership".  My guess is this is in response to buyers not wanting to be tied to a particular fixed week in Hawaii.  The program separates float owners from weeks owners.  For float, you can request any week of your choice on a first-come, first served basis.  You would only be competing with float owners.  IMHO, the float sounds interesting, but not sure of how many weeks would be in the float pool.  He said Hyatt had recently released another 60 float weeks and would release another 60 after those are sold. There are 5700 unit-weeks at the resort, so the addition of 60 is about 1 unit per week per year.  The resort is segregated into 3 bands by floor level.  So if you are looking for a 2 BR float week in the mid-band (floors 5-8) it would be slim pickings.


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## Citygal (Apr 29, 2021)

1) The contract I received states, Because the transfer of ownership may not be completed in time for Buyer’s 2021 usage, the seller will add the buyer’s name to the fixed week 22 reservation once the full deposit is in Escrow. *Question*:  Can they just as easily take me off?  What, if anything, is to prevent them from doing so (perhaps I need to add something to contract...?).  The contract contains the standard language that if the seller defaults, the buyer receives refund of the deposit as buyer’s sole remedy.  But, of course, if we pass ROFR, I'm spending thousands on airfare and will need a place to stay...

2) First American Vacation Ownership Title and Escrow Services, Inc. will be the escrow service company.

Any thoughts?


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## Citygal (Apr 29, 2021)

dmelcher13 said:


> It sounds like you are already at the point of an accepted purchase agreement. I would have included terms in the purchase agreement that the seller is to pay the current years maintenance fee and they are to book the owned week. You should also request your name to be added on a guest certificate. Your purchase price would then be adjusted to include the maintenance fee reimbursement. I assume the deposit you are referring to is your escrow payment? IMO you shouldn’t be paying anything except the minimum escrow payment at this point. All other expenses (maintenance fee) should be part of the purchase and subject to the agreed upon terms.
> 
> I did this same thing on another purchase earlier this year.
> 
> ROFR is 15 days I think at Maui. The actual transfer process takes near 90 days to get through Hyatt.


Per the contract, my name will be put on the reservation.  But, could they easily remove it?  If so, and my only recourse is my deposit, I'd be out thousands in air fare.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 29, 2021)

Kal said:


> Hyatt Maui is also pushing "float week ownership".  My guess is this is in response to buyers not wanting to be tied to a particular fixed week in Hawaii.  The program separates float owners from weeks owners.  For float, you can request any week of your choice on a first-come, first served basis.  You would only be competing with float owners.  IMHO, the float sounds interesting, but not sure of how many weeks would be in the float pool.  He said Hyatt had recently released another 60 float weeks and would release another 60 after those are sold. There are 5700 unit-weeks at the resort, so the addition of 60 is about 1 unit per week per year.  The resort is segregated into 3 bands by floor level.  So if you are looking for a 2 BR float week in the mid-band (floors 5-8) it would be slim pickings.


It's in the contract, so no, they couldn't take your name off of the reservation, if you proceed with buying it.  

@Kal what price were you quoted for a purchase and MF's?


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## Citygal (Apr 29, 2021)

Kal said:


> You need to make sure there is a clause in the sales agreement which precisely specifies all the elements of Refunding.  That's generally the difference between renting a hotel room and renting a timeshare unit.  The hotel could likely provide a full refund for a period longer than maybe 24-48 hours before occupancy.  It is difficult to cancel a timeshare rental less than 6 months out.
> 
> If you have already executed an agreement, but have not paid any money, I would go back to the seller and add an addendum to the agreement which specifies refunding provisions.


Thank you.  I wonder if you could elaborate as I don't understand this.  Per the current agreement, which I have not yet signed, the reservation will be put in my name.  But, what guarantees do I have if the seller backs out and takes my name off of the reservations?  I'd be stuck with thousands in air fare and nowhere to stay.  Unless, of course, they do not have the option of taking my name off of the reservation.  I don't know how this works and I suppose that it is the same situation with rentals, and, of course, I have no experience with rentals yet.


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## Pathways (Apr 29, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> It's in the contract, so no, they couldn't take your name off of the reservation, if you proceed with buying it.
> 
> @Kal what price were you quoted for a purchase and MF's?




Yes - they can take your name off the reservation.  The seller has TOTAL control over the week and any reservations tied to it until the day it is actually placed into your account. Your only recourse is what is stated clearly in the contract.

The reverse is also true.  I purchased a week with the seller having 2021 occupancy.  Once the week transferred into my name, I now have THEIR reservation in MY account.  It is up to me to honor the contract and keep their reservation for them, which of course I will.  But there is no language in the contract stipulating specific damages should I cancel it.  They would have to file an action against me for damages.


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## Pathways (Apr 29, 2021)

Citygal said:


> Per the contract, my name will be put on the reservation.  But, could they easily remove it?  If so, and my only recourse is my deposit, I'd be out thousands in air fare.



Yes they could - You are correct


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## Kal (Apr 29, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> ... what price were you quoted for a purchase and MF's?


Here are the price quotes 2 BR ocean view, in the mid-floor band (Floors 5-8), EOY for existing HRC owners:
Fixed Week (13, 14) = $34,192
Fixed Week (15) = $29,692
Float Week (1-50) = $40,000
MF = $3,000/yr
Non HRC owners:
Fixed Week (13, 14) = $43,192
Fixed Week (15) = $36,892
Float Week (1-50) = $44,752


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## Citygal (Apr 29, 2021)

Thank you everyone.  I've signed the contract.  Fingers crossed that I'll be joining you all as a Hyatt Vacation Club member.  I'm buying an EOY.  My understanding is that I pay around 3K every other year (so 3K per use year).  If I'm understanding timeshares, Hilton would charge around $180 even for the year that I do not use the timeshare as part of their membership fee, but Hyatt does not.  Also, again if I'm understanding the figures I see, Hilton does not quote the membership fee in the MF, but Hyatt includes everything (all fees, taxes, etc.) in the MF.  I'm new so tell me if I'm missing anything.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 29, 2021)

Well, it would be in the contract, so they couldn't take your name off because Redweek does have attorneys.  If this closing is through Redweek, then as long as you follow through, the seller should leave the reservation in your name.  I would force Redweek to get involved via lawyers, should that happen to you.  Let's not forget that Redweek is doing the closing.  That provides protection over any other means of buying.  

I still wouldn't pay that much for a week.  That sounds very high.  I would buy an oceanfront 2 bedroom Westin lockoff via resale through advantagevacation.com


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## dmelcher13 (Apr 29, 2021)

Citygal said:


> Thank you everyone. I've signed the contract. Fingers crossed that I'll be joining you all as a Hyatt Vacation Club member. I'm buying an EOY. My understanding is that I pay around 3K every other year (so 3K per use year). If I'm understanding timeshares, Hilton would charge around $180 even for the year that I do not use the timeshare as part of their membership fee, but Hyatt does not. Also, again if I'm understanding the figures I see, Hilton does not quote the membership fee in the MF, but Hyatt includes everything (all fees, taxes, etc.) in the MF. I'm new so tell me if I'm missing anything.



Hyatt charges dues every year regardless of ownership type. I believe they were around $158 this last year.


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## GTLINZ (Apr 29, 2021)

Yes you pay a club fee every year whether your have ANNUAL or EOY - with both HGVC and HYATT.

But there is a difference. HGVC charges you ONE club fee every year no matter how many units you own.  Hyatt charges you one club fee every year FOR EACH UNIT you own.


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## Mongoose (Apr 29, 2021)

Citygal said:


> The Maui property looks like paradise.  I have some questions for you wonderful people in the know.  First, why are so many available (for sale on Redweek)?  Second, what do you think would be a good price for a two-bedroom oceanfront EOY?  The assessments are $3,000/year, but my thinking is that it is worth it if I would use it because it would be hard to trade into for the weeks that I want.  Sounds like it is hard to trade into period, and I'm stuck with the school schedule for vacation planning.  Thank you wonderful people.  I'm new to timeshares.  Always thought/heard they were a bad investment.  But, it seems to me to be a good way to have a washer/dryer at a reasonable price... and, again, that Maui property looks like paradise.


Its to rich for my blood.  But its a very nice resort and hard to get into if you don't own there.


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## Mongoose (Apr 29, 2021)

Kal said:


> I just attended the Maui presentation 2 weeks ago.  Their pricing highly favors existing Hyatt RC owners with the discounts.  For owners the price for Week 13, 14 or 15, mid-band 2 BR, EOY was $30,000. The "list price" for non-HRC owners is about $37,000 ($43,250 - $4,325 - $1,800).  I believe the price would be higher for winter weeks when all the whales are present.  The 10% Covid discount won't last long. Don't let the idea of renting your unit be a factor.  The rental rates they use are meaningless.  Units are generally not available thru HRC as Hyatt pushes hard on owners renting the units themselves.
> 
> Keep in mind a timeshare is NOT AN INVESTMENT.  It's prepaid vacation.  And the resort is indeed magnificent!
> 
> View attachment 34998


I only buy resale, however $30K seems like a great price from a developer for this quality and location.


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## Mongoose (Apr 29, 2021)

Kal said:


> During the presentation, a handout was provided showing the rack rates to rent the 2 BR timeshare unit (see image).  Then they offer at least two ways for the owner to rent the unit - Hyatt and a local rental agent.  Renting the unit would quickly off-set the MF and purchase price.  Then they compare the daily rates at the Hyatt Regency next door.  A basic room (garden view) goes for $550/night before all the add-ons.  Thus an owner could receive up to $11,000 for the week rental.  Subtract the $3,000 MF and the ROI makes the price attractive.  This information is also readily made available on the internet to owners.  I would assume this would be covered during "owner update" meetings.


They can offer the rack rate, that doesn't mean the actually put heads in beds for that price.  I would be very skeptical of $11,000.  I'm sure you could get $3K for it.


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## vacationtime1 (Apr 29, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> I only buy resale, however $30K seems like a great price from a developer for this quality and location.


It would be a great price for an annual unit (comparable to WKORV-OF prices), but OP is buying an eoy for $30K.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 29, 2021)

Kal said:


> Here are the price quotes 2 BR ocean view, in the mid-floor band (Floors 5-8), EOY for existing HRC owners:
> Fixed Week (13, 14) = $34,192
> Fixed Week (15) = $29,692
> Float Week (1-50) = $40,000
> ...


Holy moly that is expensive for EOY.  I couldn't do it.  The maintenance fees are high too.  But it's Hyatt.  We stayed there on a free night with hotel points.  It was a one bedroom OF.  Beautiful units.


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## Citygal (Apr 29, 2021)

GTLINZ said:


> Yes you pay a club fee every year whether your have ANNUAL or EOY - with both HGVC and HYATT.
> 
> But there is a difference. HGVC charges you ONE club fee every year no matter how many units you own.  Hyatt charges you one club fee every year FOR EACH UNIT you own.


Did not know that (not that I would buy more than one with the 2K closing costs...).  I don't see where there is a club fee for the non-use years.  As I read it, I pay 3K every odd year and nothing in the even years.  It appears that the annual owners pay 3K every year.  So, I don't see where I am forced to pay during non-use years.  Maybe I am missing it though.


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## Kal (Apr 30, 2021)

The MF includes a fee to cover HRC which includes use of points for other than your owned week.  That runs about $125/year.  The points can be used every year thru the HRC.  That's why you pay that additional amount in non-use years.


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## Mongoose (Apr 30, 2021)

I pulled this from the The Bay Club which is a HGVC Affiliate.  These prices are from 2010.  Very similar to the current Hyatt prices.


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## Pathways (Apr 30, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> I pulled this from the The Bay Club which is a HGVC Affiliate.  These prices are from 2010.  Very similar to the current Hyatt prices.  View attachment 35110


Those are less than half the Hyatt price.  HRC prices quoted above are EOY, not annual


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## Mongoose (Apr 30, 2021)

Pathways said:


> Those are less than half the Hyatt price.  HRC prices quoted above are EOY, not annual


Ah, you're right.  The EOY is 60% of what is listed above.


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