# Distinctive Holiday Homes, competes with HCC



## Kagehitokiri

http://www.distinctiveholidayhomes.com/

~$3MM homes (6) and yachts (2)

includes things like vehicles, F&B credit, cell phones, etc

until Sept 30 lowest plan is $25K deposit / $7K annually 
(deposits double after Sept 30)
for >
7 nights advanced reservations
*unlimited* space available (from 1 to 4 weeks out) @ *$300/night*



IMHO its a pretty strong competitor to HCC, especially before Sept 30 deposit doubling. (and 20% of $25K is only $5K. similar to HCC's lowest plan, these do not involve much risk at all compared to other clubs with the same 80% refund, but MUCH higher deposits)

also, resignation is 1 in 1 out, which appears to be fairly uncommon. (usually 3 in 1 out, HCC is 2 in 1 out)


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## saluki

The 15 night HCC membership involves a $30k initiatiion fee & $3500 annual dues.

The 14 night DHH membership requires a $50k initiation & *$14,000 annual fee*.

If you subtract out the $1000 per week food & beverage allowance, you would still be paying more than 3 times the annual fee with DHH as compared to HCC.


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## Steamboat Bill

I don't know anything about this club other than they have a nice web site and appear to be a non-US company.

The three boats are awesome and worth the price of the club alone.

They only have 2 US properties, 2 Pacific properties, 3 European, and 3 boats (Europe).

Currently, this club is probably a 5% competitor for HCC as 95% of people comparing the two clubs will probably join HCC as they offer better US locations and a much LESS cost per night.


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## Kagehitokiri

*if* you use the space available @ $300/night, you can compare the lowest DHH plan to the *highest* HCC plan.

homes have 3-7BR and yachts have 3-4 cabins (sail and motor)

yachts also include US, Caribbean, and South Pacific itin

price range for yachts per week (not including fuel)
advanced - $3000 > $8000
space available - $900 > $2400


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## saluki

Kagehitokiri said:


> if you use the space available @ $300/night, you can compare the lowest DHH plan to the *highest* HCC plan.
> 
> homes have 3-7BR and yachts have 3-4 cabins
> 
> yachts also include US, Caribbean, and South Pacific itin
> 
> price range for yachts per week (fuel is additional)
> advanced - $3000 > $8000
> space available - $900 > $2400



Two things would scare me about this: 1) Counting on space being available on short notice when you want to travel & 2) Yacht fuel expense!

I don't doubt the quality of the product. I just don't really see this as a direct competitor to HCC given the pricing differences & current shortage of properties.


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## Kagehitokiri

i guess i should rephrase.. its pretty much the only direct competitor to HCC in terms of approximate *entry price*. but thats the only thing they have in common.

there appear to be 16 members right now, according to helium report.

sailing yachts wouldnt use TOO much fuel.

also IIRC i saw some charter rates for the yachts they have, in the $35K+ per week range.


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## Steamboat Bill

Kagehitokiri said:


> there appear to be 16 members right now, according to helium report.
> 
> also IIRC i saw some charter rates for the yachts they have, in the $35K+ per week range.



16 members for this level of club at these prices is unsustainable and I would be very concerned about how they are structured. I would venture to say that the combined membership could not support even one of their properties or boats, let alone the entire collection.

TUGers raked HCC over the coals last year about their business model and sustainability yet this club is "WAY MORE" riskier.

You are correct about the weekly "charter" price of these yachts as the "average prices" of a sailboat charter is in the $12-25k range and the motor boat is in the $25-50k range depending on location, time, supplies, etc.

Thus, if this club is "legitimate" then it is an incredible bargain. 

Who bought all these properties? 
Are they owned or leased?
Are they renting out unused spaces?

Unlike real estate (that can appreciate), yachts depreciate about 10-15% per year, thus in 5 years, your yacht is probably worth only 40-50% what you paid...this is a dangerous cycle for the members as all other Destination Clubs are built upon the premise that real estate can double in 10-15 years in a hot market, while these boats will loose 90% of their value in that time. Additionally, yachts have very large maintenance fees.


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## Kagehitokiri

IIRC $35K+ was the charter rate for one of the EXACT sailing yachts they have. for more general comparison purposes, the cheapest offered by Fraser (American Express Platinum/Centurion partner) for example are around $18K per week.

the yachts seem to be more in the ~$1MM+ range, and sailing does make a difference in maintenance cost, although i have no idea how much.

DHH says they have a $25MM cash reserve right now.
(100% owned, no leasing)

and even though they _start_ competitive to HCC, notice the top plan is currently $125K / $35K, and will become $250K / $35K. that does make it seem more feasible to me, but i did not do any complex analysis.

i was also off, 2 properties launch in the coming months, meaning 2:1 ratio currently (according to helium report)


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## NeilGoBlue

Besides everything everybody has already said... they are in the charter phase and more than likely are offering substantial discounts to sign members up.  Nothing wrong with that, all the clubs have done it... but those prices probably won't be around long.. even the doubling of prices probably won't be around long... 

It kind of strikes me as a similar scenario to bellehavens.. Bellehaven's isn't the biggest club, and might not be around in 5 years... But the price/value was very good and since they had reached 100 members..I felt good about it..

This is obviously a much better value proposition right now, but there is more risk.. will they get to 100 members?

Do you feel lucky today?


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## puffpuff

NeilGoBlue said:


> Besides everything everybody has already said... they are in the charter phase and more than likely are offering substantial discounts to sign members up.  Nothing wrong with that, all the clubs have done it... but those prices probably won't be around long.. even the doubling of prices probably won't be around long...
> 
> It kind of strikes me as a similar scenario to bellehavens.. Bellehaven's isn't the biggest club, and might not be around in 5 years... But the price/value was very good and since they had reached 100 members..I felt good about it..
> 
> This is obviously a much better value proposition right now, but there is more risk.. will they get to 100 members?
> 
> Do you feel lucky today?


At 50,000 for one week membership ( after Sept 30, 2007) and a 300 day (40 weeks) sell out per property, they will need 40 Lite members  or 8 deluxe members ( one deluxe member is equal to one member equivlantto cover one property. Even without the boats ( which adds financial burden), given the 6 houses on hand ( excluding the boat) , they will need a lot of member ( say 25 delux  members and 100 elite members ) equivalent to break even on current properties before new ones can be comtemplated. They currently have 16 members, and not all are member equivalents. Perhpas only about 8 real member equilvants. 

The founders also also deveopers of the Octopus resort in Fiji where one of the houses are located. I look at the internet and Octopus resort appears to be a value two star destination resort ( with dormatories ) with cost per week at $499 per person , and you can get a dail three meal package per person at $ 39 . I am not sure this is an enviroment that that can command 3-4 million dollar homes.

There is a lot promised,and the $1000 a night is not high after you take off the $150 per night food allowance, BMW car in the garage, the airport transfer etc. The $300 a night charged after allot nights are used up is cheap if you can get the booking. 

I am not sure how this model can be sustained unless there is a very deep pocket behind .  I hope I am wrong, as I may join if I am proven wrong. Any thoughts ???


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## Kagehitokiri

if you look at the site, it seems clear that the home at the octopus resort was built by the owners for their own use.

who knows which other properties were already owned. for any club for that matter. even though the value is said to be X, acquisition cost is a completely different number. ER for example buys them in bulk, im sure at a hefty discount.


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## NeilGoBlue

puffpuff said:


> At 50,000 for one week membership ( after Sept 30, 2007) and a 300 day (40 weeks) sell out per property, they will need 40 Lite members  or 8 deluxe members ( one deluxe member is equal to one member equivlantto cover one property. Even without the boats ( which adds financial burden), given the 6 houses on hand ( excluding the boat) , they will need a lot of member ( say 25 delux  members and 100 elite members ) equivalent to break even on current properties before new ones can be comtemplated. They currently have 16 members, and not all are member equivalents. Perhpas only about 8 real member equilvants.
> 
> The founders also also deveopers of the Octopus resort in Fiji where one of the houses are located. I look at the internet and Octopus resort appears to be a value two star destination resort ( with dormatories ) with cost per week at $499 per person , and you can get a dail three meal package per person at $ 39 . I am not sure this is an enviroment that that can command 3-4 million dollar homes.
> 
> There is a lot promised,and the $1000 a night is not high after you take off the $150 per night food allowance, BMW car in the garage, the airport transfer etc. The $300 a night charged after allot nights are used up is cheap if you can get the booking.
> 
> I am not sure how this model can be sustained unless there is a very deep pocket behind .  I hope I am wrong, as I may join if I am proven wrong. Any thoughts ???



My point is that the fees and initial deposits might triple over the next 18 months to make the club sustainable... so if you get in now, and the club is successfull...you'll make out big time.. if it goes belly up, well.. you're screwed.. 

So, it seems to me there is a point in a club's development that a potential member needs to be comfortable with the risk... for example, if I had several million.. I might join that club (who cares if I lose the money).  If I only have a networth of a few hundred thousand it might be too risky.

I felt comfortable with Bellehaven's and my networth when they got to 100 members. It was a risk to join, but I got in before waves of price increases, but enough stability that I felt comfortable with.


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## puffpuff

NeilGoBlue said:


> My point is that the fees and initial deposits might triple over the next 18 months to make the club sustainable... so if you get in now, and the club is successfull...you'll make out big time.. if it goes belly up, well.. you're screwed..
> 
> So, it seems to me there is a point in a club's development that a potential member needs to be comfortable with the risk... for example, if I had several million.. I might join that club (who cares if I lose the money).  If I only have a networth of a few hundred thousand it might be too risky.
> 
> I felt comfortable with Bellehaven's and my networth when they got to 100 members. It was a risk to join, but I got in before waves of price increases, but enough stability that I felt comfortable with.


I tend to submit that the "fair" market price with what they have at this time ( assuminging  3 million dollar homes and all the amenities ) for 7 days membership is about $125000-150000 initiation fee and about $ 8000 annual dues max. If that is correct, they will have limted options to increase further both the initiation and annual dues unless the market as a whole goes up. I think Bellehavens pricing for 7 days is very competitive in this respect and yes, it is far more secure at this juncture. So 

The major draw and selling point at this charter period is inthe initial fee discount from what I  can see. The annual dues is already at market price. The $300 a day for extra days is a nice perk but it is clear taht the model calls for selling a lot of 7 and 14 day packages, in which case the avilablity of homes to be reserved at $300 a day ( last minute) will be quite limited if the model succeed. Most other DC also have such a program, and they benefit only those who live close to the destinations most of the time as a drive to destination.  For those that live inthe US, majority of the desinations of  DHH  homes  are target locations outside the country  and 30 days booking is not very accomodating. Also since the refund is 80% of amount paid, there is no tangible upside, unlike Bellehavens or UR . 

Having said the above, the current 25,000 initiation fee is highely discounted ( 75% off market). The "max" loss is $5000 from cash on cash basis, and if you can enjoy 7 days a year , the average price is about $ 1240 per night after factoring in opportunity cost for the 25000 and depreciation over time of the non refundable portion of $ 5000. If one can use it for 14 days ( 7 reserved and 7 as available), the cost per night drops to $775 per night. At 21 nights, its $600 per night, and at 28 nights, its $540 a night app. Last minute availableity at this time is exclllent at this moment as the houses are only posing under 20% occupancy. Christams 07 in Brekenridge is still available as of today. For the frequent traveller with lots of time who can take advantage of last minute travel at this particular time where member usage is minimal, signing up for the 7 days and use last minute reservation more days makes a lot of sense. The more you use, the lower the average cost per night. In fact, if you can use 50 nights, the average cost goes down to $433 per night. If it takes the club 2-3 years to ramp up , there is a tremendous window of bargain at this time for those who can take advantage of it and only have to fork out $25000 . EVen if the club went bellyup and the whole 25000 is lost, if you can use 50 nights a year, then over three year time, the average cost per night goes up to $626 per night all in, still a good deal - esp for the boat. 

Too Good to be True???


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## NeilGoBlue

puffpuff said:


> Too Good to be True???



I think your analysis is good.. keep doing your due diligience.. talking to management, looking at operating agreements..etc..


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## travelguy

puffpuff said:


> Too Good to be True???



The most important thing during due diligence of this start-up DC is the question of a sustainable business model.  They appear to have deep pockets to start with but are attempting a somewhat unique approach for a new DC (not necessarily a bad thing).  On the surface it seems extremely risky, IMHO, as indicated by the analysis of previous posts.  However, the real question is what is Management's plan to make this DC work.

Those of us who became involved in High Country Club in the early stages were in a similar situation.  The HCC business plan was different and the target demographic was different than the generally accepted DC business plan.  Most of us made the decision to join HCC after reviewing their 10 year plan, projections, and frank discussions with their financial exec.  Their business model made sense once it was presented and explained.  The result is that many of us joined and HCC has exceeded their projections so far.  I believe that a big reason that they are successful is their openness with their business plans.

By comparison, DHH may have a unique business model that makes perfect sense.  The question will be how open they are with providing the information on the financial aspects of their plan to give potential members some intellectual assurance of their decision to join.  Then the question will be how many potential members are comfortable enough with the DHH biz model to join and provide DHH with enough momentum to survive.

Unfortunately for DHH, the DC market is maturing fast and there appear to be other options that may make more sense and provide more security for potential members.


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## mjs

$1000/day for any of the yachts seems like a good deal.  But after looking at the houses, I am not sure that they are as nice as HCC, and weekly 7,000 seems too much.  
Can I find homes like these to rent for $7,000 per week?
Help me see the lightl
Mark


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## Kagehitokiri

the homes are much more valuable than HCC, but youre still right, im not sure how many nights i would personally want at $1000, instead of $300. (thats more like ER pricing than HCC)


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

*Happy to answer any questions*

Hi All,

I am am happy to answer any questions you have about the club. As to it's structure etc ....and i hope you don't mind me joining this forum....

I response to the main questions :

- the price is low at present purely as an introductory offer.
- We do own all the property outright, we do not and will not lease any property.
- Our Business model worked just fine at $25,000 per week, and at $50,000 we will be able to enhance the quality of the properties, and also  add more value to the membership in terms of other add on services ...
- the company is US based. Just some of the shareholders are from New Zealand.
- one of our key differences are that our membership is spread globally, so we don't have everyone trying to vacation at the same time , with different holiday periods from country to country ...
-As we own the property outright we do not need to sign up a lot of new members before adding more property so we will continue to add another destination for every 30 weeks we sign up ... so the member to property ratio will remain very low far into the future ...
- the resort in Fiji caters for guests from backpackers to wealth adventurers,  this property is so popular that it is 99 % full  365 days a year, which is one of the reasons it won editors choice from "Lonely Planet"  and also why the beach was voted one of the top 10 in the world by Conde Naste ...
- As we add members in each area we add more property in that region , so as we add more US members we will add more property in the US & Caribbean.

Cheers

Nick Wood


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## Steamboat Bill

Nick

Welcome to TUG and I would love to hear some yacht stories as this is a unique draw of your club.


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

*The Boats etc*

Thanks for the friendly welcome ....

We currently have 2 an 86 ft Mangusta motor yacht and a 53' Hanse Sailing yacht. 

Both were launched a in July this year, they are based in the south of France this year, and will start going further a field next year e.g. Greek Islands, or Croatia ... we will add another yacht and motor yacht or the same type in the Florida/Caribbean soon ...and we have a 63 ft yacht organized to be in New Zealand during its summer and then Fiji for the rest of the year ...

The 86 ft yacht's normal charter rate is 35,000 euros per week and the 53 ft around 9,000 euro this translates to $50,000 and $12,000 per week respectively ... however as a club member you have access to the vessels for $8,000 per week for the 86' motor yacht, and $3,000 per week for the sailing yacht... fuel consumption for the small yacht is negligible, for the 86' yacht ranges from $200 - $400 per hour of actual sailing time depending on how fast you go. 

DHH has a close affiliation with a Yacht Brokerage & Management Company which is owned by two of the shareholders of DHH, we have over 20 years of industry experience.

I personally have stayed with my family on both yachts, and they are just fantastic, the sailing yacht, is very spacious due to its 4.5 mtr beam, it was designed by the same people that did the design work for the America's cup challenger Alinghi, she is very easy to sail, with self furling sails, and a self tacking jib, and Sam the captain is just a great at making your stay perfect , and is  great at teaching people to sail ....

The 86 ft Mangusta was a great buy, a very spacious yacht and very well made, it has 4 cabins, a separate dinning room ( which is rare on a boat this size ) along with a walk up bar and 2 separate sitting areas in the salon. There is a crew of 4 including a chef ...she can comfortably do 20 knots , but is much more economical at around 12 ...it was owned by the head of the Toyota formula 1 racing team and has been well looked after ...there is lots of outside space both up on the fly bridge and forward and to the stern ...

Many of the shareholders have a love of the sea, so we are keen to maintain the planned 15 % ot the total as water based destinations... 

Answering the question re concerns about depreciation on boats, we are able to buy well, and also have dealer pricing for many brands, so we pay below retail, and also purchase boats, after their early heavy depreciation cycle, so the depreciation impact will be very low if any, in fact after refitting the 86 ft yacht, we had a walk up purchase offer of 400,000 euros more than we paid for the yacht ....which we refused of course ...

Hope this answers some of your questions ....

Note: you can try the club before you join, which does include the yachts, so you can check us out at a nightly rate, and then decide if you think we are good enough .. FYI every single person who has done this to date has joined the club within 7 days ..with no pressure from us to purchase ... you won't find us doing any hard sell, we figure if we do our job well, we will have no problem getting new members, hence the reason we offer a 1 in 1 out policy vs the other clubs doing 3 in 1 out ... 

We have also made some new rule changes that will take place on the 30th September , thanks to some member suggestions :

- you will be able to move one week of your membership on any plan forward to the next year, if you don't want to use it this year, or bring one week from next year to the current year. 

- you will be able to book more than one destination for the same dates ...

- we will be changing the shared membership options so you can share any of the plans ( we are also adding a 5 week plan for Individual members ) and you can share it with up to 3 other friends or family , for an additional Membership Deposit of $5,000 per name added)  which is 80 % refundable as well ..


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## Kagehitokiri

Wow... first CEO of DC to join Tug?   



> which does include the yachts,


 really??  might have to do that! 



> We have also made some new rule changes that will take place on the 30th September , thanks to some member suggestions :
> 
> - you will be able to move one week of your membership on any plan forward to the next year, if you don't want to use it this year, or bring one week from next year to the current year.
> 
> - you will be able to book more than one destination for the same dates ...
> 
> - we will be changing the shared membership options so you can share any of the plans ( we are also adding a 5 week plan for Individual members ) and you can share it with up to 3 other friends or family , for an additional Membership Deposit of $5,000 per name added) which is 80 % refundable as well ..


 VERY interesting, and IMHO positive changes.


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## puffpuff

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Thanks for the friendly welcome ....
> 
> We currently have 2 an 86 ft Mangusta motor yacht and a 53' Hanse Sailing yacht.
> 
> Both were launched a in July this year, they are based in the south of France this year, and will start going further a field next year e.g. Greek Islands, or Croatia ... we will add another yacht and motor yacht or the same type in the Florida/Caribbean soon ...and we have a 63 ft yacht organized to be in New Zealand during its summer and then Fiji for the rest of the year ...
> 
> The 86 ft yacht's normal charter rate is 35,000 euros per week and the 53 ft around 9,000 euro this translates to $50,000 and $12,000 per week respectively ... however as a club member you have access to the vessels for $8,000 per week for the 86' motor yacht, and $3,000 per week for the sailing yacht... fuel consumption for the small yacht is negligible, for the 86' yacht ranges from $200 - $400 per hour of actual sailing time depending on how fast you go.
> 
> DHH has a close affiliation with a Yacht Brokerage & Management Company which is owned by two of the shareholders of DHH, we have over 20 years of industry experience.
> 
> I personally have stayed with my family on both yachts, and they are just fantastic, the sailing yacht, is very spacious due to its 4.5 mtr beam, it was designed by the same people that did the design work for the America's cup challenger Alinghi, she is very easy to sail, with self furling sails, and a self tacking jib, and Sam the captain is just a great at making your stay perfect , and is  great at teaching people to sail ....
> 
> The 86 ft Mangusta was a great buy, a very spacious yacht and very well made, it has 4 cabins, a separate dinning room ( which is rare on a boat this size ) along with a walk up bar and 2 separate sitting areas in the salon. There is a crew of 4 including a chef ...she can comfortably do 20 knots , but is much more economical at around 12 ...it was owned by the head of the Toyota formula 1 racing team and has been well looked after ...there is lots of outside space both up on the fly bridge and forward and to the stern ...
> 
> Many of the shareholders have a love of the sea, so we are keen to maintain the planned 15 % ot the total as water based destinations...
> 
> Answering the question re concerns about depreciation on boats, we are able to buy well, and also have dealer pricing for many brands, so we pay below retail, and also purchase boats, after their early heavy depreciation cycle, so the depreciation impact will be very low if any, in fact after refitting the 86 ft yacht, we had a walk up purchase offer of 400,000 euros more than we paid for the yacht ....which we refused of course ...
> 
> Hope this answers some of your questions ....
> 
> Note: you can try the club before you join, which does include the yachts, so you can check us out at a nightly rate, and then decide if you think we are good enough .. FYI every single person who has done this to date has joined the club within 7 days ..with no pressure from us to purchase ... you won't find us doing any hard sell, we figure if we do our job well, we will have no problem getting new members, hence the reason we offer a 1 in 1 out policy vs the other clubs doing 3 in 1 out ...
> 
> We have also made some new rule changes that will take place on the 30th September , thanks to some member suggestions :
> 
> - you will be able to move one week of your membership on any plan forward to the next year, if you don't want to use it this year, or bring one week from next year to the current year.
> 
> - you will be able to book more than one destination for the same dates ...
> 
> - we will be changing the shared membership options so you can share any of the plans ( we are also adding a 5 week plan for Individual members ) and you can share it with up to 3 other friends or family , for an additional Membership Deposit of $5,000 per name added)  which is 80 % refundable as well ..


1. Many of us already have our vacations planned going foward for the next 12-24 months. Also because of the international nature of the destiantion, advance planning is required. The ability to allow one week of the membership of any plan to move forared to the nextyear, o bring one week from the next year to the current year makes a lot of sense. If I subscribe to the 7 day play on Sept 15, 2007, are you saying that the 7 days does not have to be used until sept 14, 2009?  If that is the case, how would the booking be affacted?  CAn I book now for Sept 2009 usage? Also , Question: are members joining now on or before Sept 31, 2007will be able to take advantage of these amendments or are these rules enhancesment applicableto those paying a higher rate ?


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

*when you can use it ...*

Hi

You will be able to move a week forward to the next year up to 6 months from your anniversary date so if you joined on the 15th Sept you would have until 15th March 08 to move it forward, but can move it or a week from next year back up until 1 week before 15th of Sept 08. If you move it forward to the next year then yes you have until the 15th of Sept 09 to use it , however the weeks are not distinct , so you can still move another week forward in the 08 /09 year so in effect you can keep moving one week in total forward forever if you like ...

Cheers

Nick Wood


Many of us already have our vacations planned going forward for the next 12-24 months. Also because of the international nature of the destination, advance planning is required. The ability to allow one week of the membership of any plan to move forward to the next year, o bring one week from the next year to the current year makes a lot of sense. If I subscribe to the 7 day play on Sept 15, 2007, are you saying that the 7 days does not have to be used until sept 14, 2009? If that is the case, how would the booking be affected? Can I book now for Sept 2009 usage? Also , Question: are members joining now on or before Sept 31, 2007will be able to take advantage of these amendments or are these rules enhancement applicable to those paying a higher rate ?


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## myip

How many members does Distinctive Holiday Homes have?


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

*number of members*



myip said:


> How many members does Distinctive Holiday Homes have?



We currently have 19 Members , we have another 10 or so pending ... we expect to have about 40 by the end of September before the price rise, we only started actively taking members from the Public in May this year ...our goal is 70 Members by May 2008 ...once we get to this point we will have added another 4 destinations ...this will give us a max occupancy rate of 26 % ( which is very low ) so there will be no issue of availability problems for our members ...

They are also spread all around the world, so we also will not have everyone rushing to use the houses for 4th July or Memorial Day etc ...

Cheers

Nick Wood


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## Steamboat Bill

How are you able to stay in business with these expensive homes/boats and only 20-30 members or even 100 members at your low prices?


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

*How do we do it*



Steamboat Bill said:


> How are you able to stay in business with these expensive homes/boats and only 20-30 members or even 100 members at your low prices?



Firstly we own all the current homes and yachts outright, we have almost no debt at all, we have also invested working capital to operate the business from start up ...the Resort the club owns in Fiji is very profitable and can cover 100 % of the operating overheads for the Club from its profits even if we signed zero Members. 

When we get to around 150 Members or approx 300 weeks of Membership, the club will cover all of its own opex without any contribution needed from the Resort and we will have a max occupancy of approx 30 % ( so you will still not have any problems booking a property ) and we will have added a further 7 - 8 destinations overall ...

Our business model worked at $25,000 per week just fine, we used Member deposits to put a 30 % down payment on the new destination and furnish it, and the annual dues covered the staff, all the opex food & beverage and the mortgage on the homes/yachts ... 

At $50,000 per week we will have almost zero mortgage on the new properties we acquire, so we have even more funds available from the annual dues to provide more service and other options which we are working on now.. 

While the average value of our properties are around 3 mill USD, we buy very well and renovate most of the homes, so our cost price is less than $3 mill ... 

You will notice if you compare our locations and homes to other clubs, that the quality of our homes and locations are much better than many of the higher priced clubs ..

We are very focus on the smallest details of our Members vacation , and we include yachts etc , as we are a holiday business , which as a side effect will build a property portfolio. Many of the other clubs are solely focused on building a property portfolio , and are taking short cuts , and putting 20 plus homes in the same place side by side , all the same , which for them works really well , but for the Member reduces the choice of locations , and also "Mc Donaldizes" their holidays ...

When we have 10 properties in Italy they will be in 10 different locations eg Venice, Florence, Capri, several in different parts of Tuscany, Rome , Sicily , Sardinia etc ...not 10 houses all in one spot in the middle of nowhere in Tuscany ... 

Our goal is to have 1000 destinations within the next 15 years in over 100 different countries so our Members will have a huge range of choice , so they can never say , where do i go this year ?

Cheers

Nick Wood


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## Kagehitokiri

at the $50K/week level, what % of the deposit are you going to use toward property acquisition?

one suggestion - go for more truly beachfront homes (detached single family) with pools etc - as beachfront homes are extremely rare right now in the Destination Club market. (so that would be a major additional competitive edge)

i hope you have continued success


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

Kagehitokiri said:


> at the $50K/week level, what % of the deposit are you going to use toward property acquisition?
> 
> one suggestion - go for more truly beach front homes (detached single family) with pools etc - as beach front homes are extremely rare right now in the Destination Club market. (so that would be a major additional competitive edge)
> 
> i hope you have continued success



95 % goes towards property purchase at this stage and the other 5 %  approx to furnishings etc ....

I agree we will be having waterfront home in Miami on one of the islands in South Beach, beach Front home in St Marteen, Caribbean, Hawaii will be very near the beach with close seaviews as this market is very expensive to buy.

Fiji we have beach front already , and will add several more there over time ...

We can do beach front and lake front in New Zealand ...and also in Greece & Sardinia ...

All summer destinations will have a pool by default , even if beach front ...

Cheers

Nick


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## Kagehitokiri

> beach Front home in St Marteen...Sardinia


 excellent 

are you exploring any Southeast Asian markets?


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## myip

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> When we get to around 150 Members or approx 300 weeks of Membership, the club will cover all of its own opex without any contribution needed from the Resort and we will have a max occupancy of approx 30 % ( so you will still not have any problems booking a property ) and we will have added a further 7 - 8 destinations overall ...
> 
> Our business model worked at $25,000 per week just fine, we used Member deposits to put a 30 % down payment on the new destination and furnish it, and the annual dues covered the staff, all the opex food & beverage and the mortgage on the homes/yachts ...
> 
> At $50,000 per week we will have almost zero mortgage on the new properties we acquire, so we have even more funds available from the annual dues to provide more service and other options which we are working on now..


I am confused in turn of financing and viable of the business model.

$50,000 per week with no mortgage.
$50,000 * 50 = $2,500,000 - for the home acquistion price
However, you mentioned that 30% occpancy rate.  
== $2.5 million * .30 = $750,000.

How can this work 30% occpancy rate and price at $50000 per week?  What am I missing?


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

Kagehitokiri said:


> excellent
> 
> are you exploring any Southeast Asian markets?



We will do , at present, we are focusing on safe haven property markets , so we provide the most protection for our members money, we will allow for a % of the portfolio to be in more interesting places which come with higher ownership risk , as time goes by ..

Nick


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

myip said:


> I am confused in turn of financing and viable of the business model.
> 
> $50,000 per week with no mortgage.
> $50,000 * 50 = $2,500,000 - for the home acquistion price
> However, you mentioned that 30% occpancy rate.
> == $2.5 million * .30 = $750,000.
> 
> How can this work 30% occpancy rate and price at $50000 per week?  What am I missing?



The occupancy rate i referred to is what we would have if all members were using their full allocation of weeks at that point in time, as we have invested over $25 million in destinations and infrastructure ahead of signing members, we will have a much lower occupancy rate from the beginning as we have homes which did not require members deposits. We intend to this sustain this rate out into the future, for as long as possible.  

The long run occupancy will be approx 65 % or 35 weeks per year to deliver 100 % of our Members vacations ... this generates $50,000 x 35 = $1,750,000 in deposits. The average purchase price of our homes to date over the last 2 years has been just under $2 million dollars we spend around 100,000 on furnishings so we will have at this level $350,000 in debt but on a home that is worth once renovated around $3 million so we carry around 10 % debt on the new properties going forward, and zero on the ones we have to date ..

If you took a very simplistic snap shot forward where we had added 20 more homes, we would have approx $85,000,000 of homes all together and around $7,000,000 of loans so overall debt gearing of approx  8 %.  Refundable Member Deposits of $29,000,000, so our net asset to Member deposits and debt is 2.36 i.e. we cover the debt and Member liability 2.36 times .. even if the property market took a dump and the property values dropped 30 % we still have 1.63 times the Member deposits and bank loans.

We collect $245,000 a year in annual dues per home ($35 x 7,000) which taking a simple view allows for the following:

Mortgage $25,200
Concierge $45,000
Food & Bev $34,000
Cleaners  $15,000
Property Tax ( this only applies in the US) $25,000
Insurance $10,000
Car lease $9,000
Car Ins $3000
Power $12,000
Cable & Internet $2400
Transportation $10500
Consumables $7000

Which leaves an additional $47,000 per year for maintenance , replacement of  furniture due to ware and tear head office costs etc ....

The above is a very simple view, as we have different costs in each market to provide the same solution so our actual average is a lot lower ...when you take into account lower interest rates in Europe, and lower costs of doing business in the Pacific and Europe etc ...but this at least proves that the basic system works ...

I hope this clears up some of your questions about the sustainability of Destination Clubs as a whole ...

Cheers

Nick


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## LTTravel

Nick Wood,

It is impressive that you are on this discussion forum and you have provided so much information. I am very tempted to join DHH and with the new rules which allow "borrowing" and "banking" one week and having friends sign on for a reasonable $5000 fee it makes it even more tempting. I just wish that you had a more enticing upgrade path from Lite to higher levels and incentives to bring in more members. Just wondering, since 95% of the membership deposit goes into acquisition and you already have $25 million positive in the LLC, How are the membership deposits treated in the secured vs unsecured creditor chain? Other DC's have set up Depost Trust LLC's (Lusso) or have equity memberships(BH) or have a significant track record(ER) to make us comfortable. Or they have had some more disclosure. The Santa Monica office is only a PO Box which makes me a little nervous. I showed a friend the  pictures of the Paris Apartment and the 86 ft yacht and is ready to sign on if I do.


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> Nick Wood,
> 
> It is impressive that you are on this discussion forum and you have provided so much information. I am very tempted to join DHH and with the new rules which allow "borrowing" and "banking" one week and having friends sign on for a reasonable $5000 fee it makes it even more tempting. I just wish that you had a more enticing upgrade path from Lite to higher levels and incentives to bring in more members. Just wondering, since 95% of the membership deposit goes into acquisition and you already have $25 million positive in the LLC, How are the membership deposits treated in the secured vs unsecured creditor chain? Other DC's have set up Depost Trust LLC's (Lusso) or have equity memberships(BH) or have a significant track record(ER) to make us comfortable. Or they have had some more disclosure. The Santa Monica office is only a PO Box which makes me a little nervous. I showed a friend the  pictures of the Paris Apartment and the 86 ft yacht and is ready to sign on if I do.



Hi 

This forum is very cool , it is a great place to see things from the Members perspective in a much clear way , which will help us react better to our Members overall needs , lots of good ideas ....

The best way for you to be certain , is to try us out before you join. The only down side to this is you may miss the cut off for our price rise and have to pay more , but we do have availability at most properties in September ... 

We are in the process of joining the DCA , and will be after our year end this year in December having an independent audit of the company's accounts , and also we will continue to publish the net asset to Membership deposits Ratio which at  the moment is just ridiculously high. 

Members are the very next person in line for money after any Mortgages we might have, this is clearly stated in our club rules.

We do have more than a PO BOX in Santa Monica , we have an office with staff   , as well as in France , and New Zealand ...

There are no 100 % bets in life , we have tried to make the risk as low as possible for our members, it is then up to them to decided if we stack up, i nor can any other club give you a 100 % money back guarantee.

The reality is we have less than $1 million in Membership Deposits to date and we have $25 million of Net property Assets , so you cover today is over 25 : 1.

The DCA ( Destination Club Association) currently advocates .66:1 ie less than one times cover ... we will have a much higher cover than what is advocated by many other clubs for the foreseeable future ...  

Hope this helps you to decided, we would of course love for you guys to join us, we want to add some more Destinations soon


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## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Hi
> 
> This forum is very cool , it is a great place to see things from the Members perspective in a much clear way , which will help us react better to our Members overall needs , lots of good ideas ....
> 
> The best way for you to be certain , is to try us out before you join. The only down side to this is you may miss the cut off for our price rise and have to pay more , but we do have availability at most properties in September ...
> 
> We are in the process of joining the DCA , and will be after our year end this year in December having an independent audit of the company's accounts , and also we will continue to publish the net asset to Membership deposits Ratio which at  the moment is just ridiculously high.
> 
> Members are the very next person in line for money after any Mortgages we might have, this is clearly stated in our club rules.
> 
> We do have more than a PO BOX in Santa Monica , we have an office with staff   , as well as in France , and New Zealand ...
> 
> There are no 100 % bets in life , we have tried to make the risk as low as possible for our members, it is then up to them to decided if we stack up, i nor can any other club give you a 100 % money back guarantee.
> 
> The reality is we have less than $1 million in Membership Deposits to date and we have $25 million of Net property Assets , so you cover today is over 25 : 1.
> 
> The DCA ( Destination Club Association) currently advocates .66:1 ie less than one times cover ... we will have a much higher cover than what is advocated by many other clubs for the foreseeable future ...
> 
> Hope this helps you to decided, we would of course love for you guys to join us, we want to add some more Destinations soon




I am impressed at how fast your replyed. I would like to join at the corporate level but may just join at the Lite level to try it out (at least to save $25,000) The new destinations that you mention in the previous post. I understand that the Mageve home is in contract and the 63 ft Yacht is in process. You mention other beach front homes. Have they been identified and in process or are you "just looking" at this point? With real estate prices droping, you may be able to get some better deals now in some of the markets.


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## Kagehitokiri

> We are in the process of joining the DCA , and will be after our year end this year in December having an independent audit of the company's accounts



fantastic news 

Miami/South Beach would be the only beach market he mentioned where i would consider prices dropping.. or am i not current on downtrends in Europe/Caribbean/Hawaii?

Megeve >
This property is being renovated and will be open in January 2008.

63' Hanse >
Present - 15 Oct 2007 - Under Construction
16 Oct 2007 - 3 Nov 2007 - in transit
4 Nov 2007 - 6 Apr 2008 - Hauraki Gulf & Bay of Islands , New Zealand


hmm, in list by type i see >
*City*
London
New York
Sydney

*Mountain*
Queenstown

*Beach*
Bay of Islands	
Greece	
Hawaii	
Miami
St Maarten	
St Tropez	

*Oceans*
The World

you mentioned some of those earlier in this thread - but regarding The World, my understanding was that the only destination club that was going to be permitted to own was Exclusive Resorts. is this not accurate?


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> I am impressed at how fast your replyed. I would like to join at the corporate level but may just join at the Lite level to try it out (at least to save $25,000) The new destinations that you mention in the previous post. I understand that the Mageve home is in contract and the 63 ft Yacht is in process. You mention other beach front homes. Have they been identified and in process or are you "just looking" at this point? With real estate prices droping, you may be able to get some better deals now in some of the markets.



Just caught me at a good moment ...happy for you to join at whatever level suits you, we are not into heavy sales methods ...we just expect our service and Destinations to do the selling so to speak, for us ....

Yes Megeve is in the process of being renovated , it is taking longer than we would like to get it just right, so looks like it will be ready end of January instead fo for Christmas ...

We have been looking in Hawaii, Miami & New York for a few years been to both places over 5 times looking but have yet to find something that matches our high standards at a fair price  , we wanted to wait until the market softened , which we predicted it would do, we think that there will be good buying very soon. We are researching the Caribbean, have visited a few locations , and have settled on St Martin as it has international flights in from Europe direct , and also from the US ... and we can get beach front with a pool there in our budget range ...

We don't buy unless the property is just right , and fits the budget , so in some places this means lots of visits, in Megeve in the French Alps , we went 5 times before we actually put an offer in on a property as we wanted ski in/out  but also walking distance to the town center ( 300 meters ) as parking in winter is a bitch ....and it is a small village with limited number of these properties...

Our aim is to have in the first round of property , a few sunny beach destinations, a city destination, and a few ski destinations and a boat in each  region ie Americas, Europe & Pacific ... and then to add where members what the property next ...


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## puffpuff

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Just caught me at a good moment ...happy for you to join at whatever level suits you, we are not into heavy sales methods ...we just expect our service and Destinations to do the selling so to speak, for us ....
> 
> Yes Megeve is in the process of being renovated , it is taking longer than we would like to get it just right, so looks like it will be ready end of January instead fo for Christmas ...
> 
> We have been looking in Hawaii, Miami & New York for a few years been to both places over 5 times looking but have yet to find something that matches our high standards at a fair price  , we wanted to wait until the market softened , which we predicted it would do, we think that there will be good buying very soon. We are researching the Caribbean, have visited a few locations , and have settled on St Martin as it has international flights in from Europe direct , and also from the US ... and we can get beach front with a pool there in our budget range ...
> 
> We don't buy unless the property is just right , and fits the budget , so in some places this means lots of visits, in Megeve in the French Alps , we went 5 times before we actually put an offer in on a property as we wanted ski in/out  but also walking distance to the town center ( 300 meters ) as parking in winter is a bitch ....and it is a small village with limited number of these properties...
> 
> Our aim is to have in the first round of property , a few sunny beach destinations, a city destination, and a few ski destinations and a boat in each  region ie Americas, Europe & Pacific ... and then to add where members what the property next ...


Could you pleasea respond to the issue about ER and no one else can have units on the World?


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## puffpuff

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Hi
> 
> You will be able to move a week forward to the next year up to 6 months from your anniversary date so if you joined on the 15th Sept you would have until 15th March 08 to move it forward, but can move it or a week from next year back up until 1 week before 15th of Sept 08. If you move it forward to the next year then yes you have until the 15th of Sept 09 to use it , however the weeks are not distinct , so you can still move another week forward in the 08 /09 year so in effect you can keep moving one week in total forward forever if you like ...
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Nick Wood
> 
> 
> Many of us already have our vacations planned going forward for the next 12-24 months. Also because of the international nature of the destination, advance planning is required. The ability to allow one week of the membership of any plan to move forward to the next year, o bring one week from the next year to the current year makes a lot of sense. If I subscribe to the 7 day play on Sept 15, 2007, are you saying that the 7 days does not have to be used until sept 14, 2009? If that is the case, how would the booking be affected? Can I book now for Sept 2009 usage? Also , Question: are members joining now on or before Sept 31, 2007will be able to take advantage of these amendments or are these rules enhancement applicable to those paying a higher rate ?


The maximum stretch out period is acatually 2.5 years from date of joining and not two years from your description . if you join now, you have 6 months to decide if you want to roll forward,and hvae two years from that 6 months date to roll. Thus if I join on Sept 1, I have until March 1, 2008 to decide to roll forward, and if I so desire, I can book thru Sept 1, 2010. Is that correct??


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## LTTravel

puffpuff said:


> The maximum stretch out period is acatually 2.5 years from date of joining and not two years from your description . if you join now, you have 6 months to decide if you want to roll forward,and hvae two years from that 6 months date to roll. Thus if I join on Sept 1, I have until March 1, 2008 to decide to roll forward, and if I so desire, I can book thru Sept 1, 2010. Is that correct??



I think that the wording of the rules and regulations need to be looked at closely. If you book an advanced reservation more than one year out, you use your advanced reservation token from this year but your useage days from next year. You can move forward both your advanced useage token and useage days till next year, but then next year you can only do this for one week indicating that you will have to use at least one weeks useage days, either with an advanced token or on a space available basis. I would think that though they give you six months to decide whether or not to move your days or your token to next year, they mean to move it to a membership year with your membership anniversary. Every club has a different set of rules. It can get very confusing.  Also look at the cancellation rules. They are pretty stiff. Still think DHH sounds good. The homes, boats, destinations, food, car, airport transfers sound good. But with restrictions as would be expected.


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## Kagehitokiri

IMHO its also been great to hear about property selection, because thats the most important factor for me.

with the other clubs im watching, im just looking at their current properties, and lists of future destinations. in other words i like what i see, but havent actually heard how they got there.


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

puffpuff said:


> The maximum stretch out period is acatually 2.5 years from date of joining and not two years from your description . if you join now, you have 6 months to decide if you want to roll forward,and hvae two years from that 6 months date to roll. Thus if I join on Sept 1, I have until March 1, 2008 to decide to roll forward, and if I so desire, I can book thru Sept 1, 2010. Is that correct??



You have 6 months in your current year to decide if you want to move a week forward, however it can only be used inside of your next year ... ie if you joined in September 07 and waited until Feb 08 to move the week it could be used between Sept 08 and Sept 09 so up to 2 years from when you joined ...

Cheers

Nick


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

puffpuff said:


> Could you pleasea respond to the issue about ER and no one else can have units on the World?



As i said in the last post , the last time i check with them they were happy for us to come on board , but it is possible ER have done a swifty on everyone , they like doing that .....

Either way there are many more options , i saw the world first hand when we did an inspection to see if we wanted to have it in the club, and i was impressed, but i have recently hear that it is a bit of a ghost town , as not many owners are on board at any one time , which is not the best when you are on a cruise ship , so we have started to look at several options that are similar as well , but create a better night life environment etc ...its all about making sure our Members have a great holiday ( hope that was not to soppy  )


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## Kagehitokiri

first i wanted to clarify my last post - i dont just like hearing about the property selection, i liked hearing things i agree with, including the comparison to other clubs - IMHO your strategies/values are an asset/strength for your club.

i didnt see your earlier response re The World?

regarding ER, it may well have been purely marketing. but if it is indeed the case, there are other options. not sure theyre as appealing for the price though. ER's floorplans are fairly nice.

http://www.heliumreport.com/archives/535-quick-guide-to-residential-cruise-ships

Orphalese launches next year and is half residential / half regular, so bigger and lots more people, also very low annual fees. but floorplans arent great, except at the top.

Magellan's floorplans might be a little better than Orpheus, but annual fees might be more than The World. theyll also have more people, because of the fractional and club options, whereas The World is full ownership only, like the Four Seasons ship.

personally i would not mind having less people at all, and would definitely prefer to have the ship be smaller rather than larger.

maybe a larger private yacht would make a good multi-member destination


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## LTTravel

I have been on "The World" and it is absolutely beautiful and luxurious. But, it is VERY quiet and not very kid friendly. They have kid quieting rules but also do have some kid activities. You can't even take any photos in the public areas. The other problem with "The World" is that over a period of a week, it may make only two stops. It is basically a hotel in the port for three or four days. You really need to be on it for two weeks to be able to see several destinations. Much of the time it is less than desireable destinations (Jordan, East African Coast, etc) while it is moving to the next destination.
Common charges are also astronomical, I think about $160,000 per year for a 2 bedroom last I checked about 18 months ago. So I am mixed on my opinion of it. In the right location with the right people, it is unbeatable. I would still like to go on it when in the right place.


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

Yes i agree 100 % a larger private yacht is on my wish list for DHH , something around 150 ft ....


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> I have been on "The World" and it is absolutely beautiful and luxurious. But, it is VERY quiet and not very kid friendly. They have kid quieting rules but also do have some kid activities. You can't even take any photos in the public areas. The other problem with "The World" is that over a period of a week, it may make only two stops. It is basically a hotel in the port for three or four days. You really need to be on it for two weeks to be able to see several destinations. Much of the time it is less than desireable destinations (Jordan, East African Coast, etc) while it is moving to the next destination.
> Common charges are also astronomical, I think about $160,000 per year for a 2 bedroom last I checked about 18 months ago. So I am mixed on my opinion of it. In the right location with the right people, it is unbeatable. I would still like to go on it when in the right place.



Yes , that was my worry ... i would even prefer to charter year round for the club a Penthouse Suite on the Crystal Cruise Line which is very cool ( we have sued them quite a bit  in the past ) , they are kid friendly, and there is a good night life , and enough people around to have a great time, along with 6 star silver service ....

As a club we are not just focused on making money out of Property ... our focus is on great holiday experiences for everyone, even if they don't involve purchasing an asset ...


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## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> i would even prefer to charter year round for the club a Penthouse Suite on the Crystal Cruise Line which is very cool ( we have *sued* them quite a bit  in the past ) ,  ...



I hope that was a typo.


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## Kagehitokiri

> i would even prefer to charter year round for the club a Penthouse Suite on the Crystal Cruise Line which is very cool


 thats not really feasible is it? 

if it were these might be interesting
- NCL - 3BR garden villa
- RCI - 4BR presidential family suite
- magellan - 2BRs - palma/florence (sale prices seem high)

- the world - 2BRs (rental prices seem ridiculous)


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> I hope that was a typo.



 yes major typo .....


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## LTTravel

I have been reviewing the membership rules and am very close to making a decision (I've got 30 days left) There are a few things I don't understand, some may be bad, some, very good.
1. It appears from the rules and regulations that the dues and fees are exclusive of all "taxes", except income taxes for the club. I don't understand what those taxes are. Does that also include real estate taxes??? For some of these destinations, this may be $30,000 + per property. If there is 50% occupancy (26 weeks) this can amount to over $1000 (or even more) per week in additional fees. And then what other taxes are there? That's bad.
2. If you are a lite member, you cannot make a reservation in the 30-90 day window, even using and advanced reservation token. That's bad.
3. You can't make a reservation for the first 8 weeks after membership. I don't understand this rule. That's bad
4. It appears that your children (immediate family includes only children, not parents or siblings- they are considered extended family) can be on the vacation alone as long as they are at least 23 years of age for ALL of the weeks. Extended family need to use the extended family tokens. That's good
5. It appears that if you find someone to take over your membership, you can transfer it to them for a cancellation administrative fee, currently $5,000. You may be able to transfer  you membership without losing the 20% if you can find someone to transfer it to. That's very good.

I think that I am reading this correctly. I still am confused about the tax thing. Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## vineyarder

*DHH as competitor with HCC*

I looked over DHH reasonably closely, but in the end went with HCC as a 2nd DC membership.  While I liked alot of what I saw with DHH, there were several downsides in our particular situation:

PRO DHH


International emphasis
The Yachts!!
The expanded services, such as maid and/or butler on-site, RT airport transfers, and luxury car on-site.

CONS


Reservation must be Sunday to Sunday; this is really hard, especially with international destinations, where you either have to send the kids back to school with jet-lag or have them miss the Monday... Why sit around twiddling your thumbs on a Saturday, then leave on Sunday, and get back with no time to catch up before Monday morning?  IMHO, Sat-Sat is infinately preferable.
"Lite" members (the $25K entry point) cannot use the 86' motoryacht, as it requires 8 days plus two advanced booking credits... Other future homes may also require more than one day per night of usage.
Cost per night is substantially higher than HCC, PE, etc., even after accounting for F&B credit, car, etc.

Just my thoughts... Do others agree that a Sun-Sun is difficult, esp. for international travel?


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## LTTravel

vineyarder said:


> I looked over DHH reasonably closely, but in the end went with HCC as a 2nd DC membership.  While I liked alot of what I saw with DHH, there were several downsides in our particular situation:
> 
> PRO DHH
> 
> 
> International emphasis
> The Yachts!!
> The expanded services, such as maid and/or butler on-site, RT airport transfers, and luxury car on-site.
> 
> CONS
> 
> 
> Reservation must be Sunday to Sunday; this is really hard, especially with international destinations, where you either have to send the kids back to school with jet-lag or have them miss the Monday... Why sit around twiddling your thumbs on a Saturday, then leave on Sunday, and get back with no time to catch up before Monday morning?  IMHO, Sat-Sat is infinately preferable.
> "Lite" members (the $25K entry point) cannot use the 86' motoryacht, as it requires 8 days plus two advanced booking credits... Other future homes may also require more than one day per night of usage.
> Cost per night is substantially higher than HCC, PE, etc., even after accounting for F&B credit, car, etc.
> 
> Just my thoughts... Do others agree that a Sun-Sun is difficult, esp. for international travel?



I totally agree with the Saturday to Saturday preference. Exclusive and Ultimate also have the Sunday to Sunday. Their argument is that you can book a Friday/Saturday on a space available basis with this scenario. I would book Sunday to Saturday and just forego the last night. That way I could tighten loose ends before leaving and recover when I got back. I would still prefer Saturday to Saturday, guess I am rationalizing. 
You will be able to book the Yacht and holidays on DHH when they change the rules to be able to "bank" and "borrow" weeks. If you forward your advanced reservation token and days to next year, you will then have two advanced reservation tokens and 14 days next year, opening up more options. Not ideal, but that offers much more flexibility, and only because of that am I considering membership. HCC is totally different kind of DC but a great deal in my opinion.
If I can clear up this "tax" charge I think that the cost per night is VERY reasonable. 
$7000 per week cost minus the following benefits
$1000 per week in food
$800-$1000 (estimate) per week in car rental (remember they are giving you a luxury SUV)
$250-$350 (estimate) airport transfers. (Reno airport to Lake Tahoe for example should cost at least that much)
$250-$500 (estimate) Daily maid service with breakfast preparation and laundry service

So I estimate the weekly cost at $4150-$$4750 for a $3million property. Two to three times the cost of HCC but the properties are also valued at 2-3 times the HCC homes. Then as a bonus they offer you the space available at $300 per day, which has probably been estimated as their daily variable cost. I think that they are both good.


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## Kagehitokiri

in addition to banking, lite members can book the 86' yacht ~30 days out for $2400/week.


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> I have been reviewing the membership rules and am very close to making a decision (I've got 30 days left) There are a few things I don't understand, some may be bad, some, very good.
> 1. It appears from the rules and regulations that the dues and fees are exclusive of all "taxes", except income taxes for the club. I don't understand what those taxes are. Does that also include real estate taxes??? For some of these destinations, this may be $30,000 + per property. If there is 50% occupancy (26 weeks) this can amount to over $1000 (or even more) per week in additional fees. And then what other taxes are there? That's bad.
> 2. If you are a lite member, you cannot make a reservation in the 30-90 day window, even using and advanced reservation token. That's bad.
> 3. You can't make a reservation for the first 8 weeks after membership. I don't understand this rule. That's bad
> 4. It appears that your children (immediate family includes only children, not parents or siblings- they are considered extended family) can be on the vacation alone as long as they are at least 23 years of age for ALL of the weeks. Extended family need to use the extended family tokens. That's good
> 5. It appears that if you find someone to take over your membership, you can transfer it to them for a cancellation administrative fee, currently $5,000. You may be able to transfer  you membership without losing the 20% if you can find someone to transfer it to. That's very good.
> 
> I think that I am reading this correctly. I still am confused about the tax thing. Please correct me if I am wrong.




Answers

1. This is just a cover all just in case due to the country/state you come from there are any sales taxes in relation your Membership Joijning Deposit or annual dues, this so far has not applied to any US state or Western country we have accepted members from to date , just our lawyers being ultra conservative ...so not something you have to worry about ...

2. Yes that is correct under the current rules ( until 30th ) after the 30th , you will be able to book at any time using your advanced token, and also Deluxe members will have a SAB window of 90 days vs the 60 at present , leaving standard & Lite with a 60 & 30 day window. However you will still only be able to book SAB vacations within your normal window ...

3. This rule actually means you can't have a first arrival date sooner than 8 weeks from when you join you however can make a booking from the day you join. Also this rule is currently waived for all new memberships, but as we get busier this time window allows us time to open property to cover membership growth.

4. your interpretation is correct ...

5. You can find someone to take your place , not your membership , you are refunded the 80 % , and they pay what you were refunded to join, they can also take over any bookings you had in the system at the time. However they are on a new membership , and yours is canceled. Eg say in 10 years a 4 week membership is $400,000 and you wanted to leave and were owed 80,000 back ( 80 % of 100,000 ) you could invite a friend to take your place , they would pay $80,000 and you would get back your $80,000. Now your friend if he had have joined of the street, just his non refundable part would have been $80,000. You have saved him a bunch of money , while he would still only get $80,000 back when he leaves ....you would no doubt have a discussion about what it was worth for him to save all that money ....


Cheers

Nick


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

Kagehitokiri said:


> in addition to banking, lite members can book the 86' yacht ~30 days out for $2400/week.



This is correct , also when you get down to 30 days or less , you can use your days plus one day at $300 to book the yacht .... and yes you can bring a week from next year to this year, so you can book it in advance so you make sure you get the week you want ...

There will not be very many properties or yachts that will be more than 7 days for 7 days ..... the yacht is more just due to the costs ... the normal charter price is $50,000 a week , so at $8,000 to members inclusive of transfers & food/Bev to $1000 it is very good value to normal retail ...

The smaller boats we have in the 53 ft to 65 ft are very good value . I personally prefer the 53' yacht to the 86 ft yacht, as the running costs are almost zero, and i can go for a week for just 3 membership days ...which includes transfers, food & bev ....which makes the real cost of the yacht very little ...

Re the Sunday to Sunday , you have to do it this way, and Members don't have to take a 7 day vacation , the issue is the advance booking credit is used inside this window, you can go for less days, the days you don't use then become Space Available booking daysfor you to use in the future ...

You also have to remember for international travel .. if you go to Europe they are ahead of the US , so you arrive the next day usually , and when you come back you will arrive the same day you left on the Sunday generally, due to the dateline .... also if you go to the pacific from the US they are 19 hours ahead, and when you come back you arrive the day you left there ... so there is more to it than just Sunday to Sunday ... 

If we made it Sat / Sat you will annoy Members who want to "last minute" go for the weekend , and find that someone has booked until Sat, so they have to arrive on Sat ... the idea is to break it into Sun - Sun  and then Mon - Thurs or Friday - Sun , or any number of days that a Member wants ....

We want members to have as much flexibility as possible so are continually reviewing the rules , and taking advice from active members .... so i will be feeding all of the above feedback into the mix as well, so we can continually improve the access ...

So much appreciated the above commentary ....

Cheers

Nick


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

vineyarder said:


> I looked over DHH reasonably closely, but in the end went with HCC as a 2nd DC membership.  While I liked alot of what I saw with DHH, there were several downsides in our particular situation:
> 
> PRO DHH
> 
> 
> International emphasis
> The Yachts!!
> The expanded services, such as maid and/or butler on-site, RT airport transfers, and luxury car on-site.
> 
> CONS
> 
> 
> Reservation must be Sunday to Sunday; this is really hard, especially with international destinations, where you either have to send the kids back to school with jet-lag or have them miss the Monday... Why sit around twiddling your thumbs on a Saturday, then leave on Sunday, and get back with no time to catch up before Monday morning?  IMHO, Sat-Sat is infinately preferable.
> "Lite" members (the $25K entry point) cannot use the 86' motoryacht, as it requires 8 days plus two advanced booking credits... Other future homes may also require more than one day per night of usage.
> Cost per night is substantially higher than HCC, PE, etc., even after accounting for F&B credit, car, etc.
> 
> Just my thoughts... Do others agree that a Sun-Sun is difficult, esp. for international travel?



Appreciate the list of pluses  thanks ...

Re the costs , you really can't compare us to HCC, our homes are a better standard of almost every ER home and currently we are technically a fraction of the ER price to join and our annual dues are less, with many more benefits included such as cars, food & Bev etc ...

I accept of course everyone has different needs and we are not going to meet them all, i tried when i first set out to do this to aim for homes in the $1 Million dollar range, but you just cant get the standard that will impress at that budget level ... 

We wanted people to stay in Destinations which would blow them away , both in location , and in the size and quality of the property , along with the furnishings and amenities , and sadly to deliver this , we found we needed to spend over $2 mill a home ,and after experimenting , we felt we had to deliver the level of amenities we do , to make it really work for our Members , so that  it really is a vacation , for the whole family , including Mom ... hence the laundry service, Food & Beverage already taken care of , daily housekeeping, breakfast prepared daily , car ready to go , etc etc ...


----------



## LTTravel

Nick,

Your responses are truly impressive.(Even on a holiday weekend-just joking, I know that it is not labor day weekend in New Zealand) I do not think that I will be able to resist the temptation to join. I was going to join at Lite to try it but now I will have to think some more about it. You are clearing my original doubt about DHH being able to deliver.


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> Nick,
> 
> Your responses are truly impressive.(Even on a holiday weekend-just joking, I know that it is not labor day weekend in New Zealand) I do not think that I will be able to resist the temptation to join. I was going to join at Lite to try it but now I will have to think some more about it. You are clearing my original doubt about DHH being able to deliver.



It's Fathers Day here today ( Sunday ), should be chilling, but i looked at my email ( dumb move  ) and so couldn't help myself .... i have staff all around the world, on all different time zones , so i find my job is a little 24 hours a day anyway ....( i secretly love it anyway, it is my hobby and my job, you can't bet that  .... ) 

Happy to have you aboard at what ever level suits you .....this forum is so very useful for gaining real time feedback on things ... i am glad it was brought to my attention .....

Ethan my 7 year old wants to kick a soccer ball ... so i am done for now


----------



## puffpuff

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> It's Fathers Day here today ( Sunday ), should be chilling, but i looked at my email ( dumb move  ) and so couldn't help myself .... i have staff all around the world, on all different time zones , so i find my job is a little 24 hours a day anyway ....( i secretly love it anyway, it is my hobby and my job, you can't bet that  .... )
> 
> Happy to have you aboard at what ever level suits you .....this forum is so very useful for gaining real time feedback on things ... i am glad it was brought to my attention .....
> 
> Ethan my 7 year old wants to kick a soccer ball ... so i am done for now


1. It takes 8 days and two reseravaton to use the 86 yacht, those with 7 days per year plan will be excluded , am I right ?

2. The yachts are stationed in Europe and south pacific, but none in the America, is taht correct? If not, where and when?

3. Food allowance is based on grocery cost of purchase?  As a vegetarian and not a drinker. 

4. All  clubs starting out give their charter members the option to upgrade to more extensive plans within a time window where the upgrade diffenece is based on current prevailiing rate. Is this being contemplated. I believe this is a major draw to overcome and instill confidence in DHH as a bonus to those who take chances today. The downside to DHH is zero. EArly adopters take chances and should be rewarded heavily.


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

puffpuff said:


> 1. It takes 8 days and two reseravaton to use the 86 yacht, those with 7 days per year plan will be excluded , am I right ?
> 
> 2. The yachts are stationed in Europe and south pacific, but none in the America, is taht correct? If not, where and when?
> 
> 3. Food allowance is based on grocery cost of purchase?  As a vegetarian and not a drinker.
> 
> 4. All  clubs starting out give their charter members the option to upgrade to more extensive plans within a time window where the upgrade diffenece is based on current prevailiing rate. Is this being contemplated. I believe this is a major draw to overcome and instill confidence in DHH as a bonus to those who take chances today. The downside to DHH is zero. EArly adopters take chances and should be rewarded heavily.



Response:

1. Not excluded , as you can bring a week from next year and use it this year , or wait until it is 30 days from your stay , and book it using your week plus 1 SAB day at $300 or use your week elsewhere and then just wait until 30 days out , and then use 8 x $300 SAB days to go for a week ....

2. Yes , but we are working on a 86 ft yacht for the Caribbean which we hope to have in place for this season ....

3. Yes , cost of purchase, and you choose what you want , and how much , we provide an allowance to stock the home ahead of arrival ... some people use more or less than the allowance , depends on the number of people staying and what you prefer to eat / drink ....

4. We will take this under consideration , as it is a valid point , however we are exceedingly inexpensive at the moment ...i will respond to this within the week ....


----------



## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Response:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. We will take this under consideration , as it is a valid point , however we are exceedingly inexpensive at the moment ...i will respond to this within the week ....


Nick
If this is in place, it will be an absolute no brainer to join.  

Just want to make a comment about your web site, since you do look at this thread for useful feedback
1. The main photos of the destinations are great. The thumbnails in the bottom right corner are not clear and do not give your destinations justice. I think that most people who consider DC's are internet savvy and will scour the web sites, I think that full size pictures will offer a better representation of your wonderful destinations. Perhaps even a link to a PDF of your brochure.
2. There is an error in calculation under your column, Membership, Dollars and Sense, Review the Figures in Detail.  Under Rental property you have;  
Motor Vehicle      $4200      (OK, conservative figure)
Vacation Costs    $3600      (To be fair to DHH, it should be $4000)
Nightly Charges    $70,000   ($2500/day, a fair figure for this quality)

Total                 $77,800 for 28 days

Daily Cost            $1691    (Where did this come from? Should be:
                                       $77,800/28 or $2779)


Hope this is helpful

Those fuel costs for an 86ft motor yacht are a killer($400 for every 20 nautical miles, ) . How about another sailboat in the Carribean? I will try to convince others to join.


----------



## LTTravel

puffpuff said:


> 3. Food allowance is based on grocery cost of purchase?  As a vegetarian and not a drinker.



puffpuff,

The club ends in 2037, man, you're gonna live forever.


----------



## Kagehitokiri

nick said:
			
		

> Deluxe members will have a SAB window of 90 days vs the 60 at present


 very good! i presume you mean premium, correct? (#1) deluxe is currently 90 days.



			
				nick said:
			
		

> allows us time to open property to cover membership growth.


 instead of waitlisting, very interesting.



			
				nick said:
			
		

> You have saved him a bunch of money , while he would still only get $80,000 back when he leaves ....you would no doubt have a discussion about what it was worth for him to save all that money ....


 VERY interesting! so you just pay a $5K fee to the club to transfer the membership? (#2)



			
				nick said:
			
		

> I personally prefer the 53' yacht


 value is great, although IMHO the interior design of the 65' is better. too bad its the one farther away. OTOH gives me another reason to make a trip over there 



			
				LTTravel said:
			
		

> Those fuel costs for an 86ft motor yacht are a killer($400 for every 20 nautical miles, ) . How about another sailboat in the Carribean? .


 agreed - i also like the "romance" of sailing  (as in the feeling of tradition/history/etc)

-----

i definitely like what im hearing about your property/destination selection strategies, many of your policies, and your pricing.  

-----

one clarification - re use by children - can they also use the space available(SAB?) nights? (#3)

also, correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt one of the yachts either in Martha's Vineyard/Bahamas earlier this year, or scheduled to be later this year until a scheduling change? (#4)


----------



## puffpuff

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Response:
> 
> 1. Not excluded , as you can bring a week from next year and use it this year , or wait until it is 30 days from your stay , and book it using your week plus 1 SAB day at $300 or use your week elsewhere and then just wait until 30 days out , and then use 8 x $300 SAB days to go for a week ....
> 
> 2. Yes , but we are working on a 86 ft yacht for the Caribbean which we hope to have in place for this season ....
> 
> 3. Yes , cost of purchase, and you choose what you want , and how much , we provide an allowance to stock the home ahead of arrival ... some people use more or less than the allowance , depends on the number of people staying and what you prefer to eat / drink ....
> 
> 4. We will take this under consideration , as it is a valid point , however we are exceedingly inexpensive at the moment ...i will respond to this within the week ....


1. to avoid confusion, when I say the "current and prevailing" rate, I  mean the rack rate at the time of joing membership. 

I believe that a three year  window for members joining now to upgrade is fair. Most clubs offer this now when it comes down to closing the deal as there is simply no down side.  


2. The other clincher is to offer some upside appreciation in membership fee, provided that the member stays in the club for a certain period of time. Statistics show that those who stay around for three years and happy do not leave. That is already proven. On the contrary ,they act as the best salesman for you to recruit new members because they already know the system and they want their friends to do things together within the same system. Members are thus lock in for you over time and you can count on their repeat annual dues. UR and Cresendo have similar packages. The days of 80% straight refund without upside is something of the past unless you are ER. Too much competition out there. 

 I would suggest something like:

90% of prevailing membership price for members in the club  five or more years
80% of prevailing membership price for memebrs in the club 3-5 years 
80% of price paid for membersship  under three years as you currently have unchanged. 

as the club gets stronger, you can choose to stop this in time or simply extend the time period out longer to have a carrot out there for new members, but not as good as charter members. Its a win win for club and members. Now you can also label yourself as a "equity" type club- another good sales point. 

I belivee if you   adopt the above , togehter with a three  year upgrade window. you are giving away nothing in practical terms, but gaining confidence and overcome and cover all the basis of why people dont want to joinn. As well, and most important,  you are locking in long term members without maketing cost and eliminate drop out , but  guarantees you recurrent and rising  annual dues revenue stream in this early phase. This type of carrot you throw out does not affact cash flow . This is not the same as offering too much service you cannot deliver which affact cash flow. 

THese two suggestions are cash flow neutral to positive, annual fee positive. Almost all clubs all have done similar programs when they started out. No one complaint then and no one complain now. Only people who miss it kicks themselvs, and those who have it stay on as members and will never leave. Win win for operator and member. 

Because DHH is so new and DC as a whole is still a young concept, you are not goign to get 200 people to join even before SEpt 30, 2007 even if you offer the two suggestions. So the max you have is say 30-50   members, but this will be your core group to start spreadinig the word for you. So in the worse worse case senerio, and say you have a redemption rate of of one in four, your down side is 10 members taking "advantage" of this 5 years down the line, when you arleady would have hundreds of members, making this  redemption, even if carried out en mass,  meaningless in the overall scheme of things. But you have locked in 5 years of annual dues in a stroke, so in the worse case, you still come out ahead in cash flow while any redempton may or may not happen until 5 years out. 

The bottom line is that whatever you do in this charter period is only going to affact a small number of people. But this is the key group taht will be your ambassador . They will save you a  lot of $$$ in markting cost. That alone is worth hundreds times more  $$$$$$. The more carrot you throw out provide that it is not immedaite cash flow negative, the better it is for you over time in my  opinion. 

The complete charter package :

1. 25k joing fee for 7 days unchanged
2. $1000 a day with all the amenties you promised unchanged 
3. Ability to roll foward as you already have in place now
4. Abiliy to upgrade within 3 years
5. participate in the appreciation of membership fee with lock in period

Who would not join if they are half way serious? All this done at practically no down side to you.


----------



## Kagehitokiri

IMHO their model for "equity" is very interesting, as it takes it out of their hands and puts it in your own - allowing you to "resell" your membership. >



			
				nick said:
			
		

> 5. You can find someone to take your place , not your membership , you are refunded the 80 % , and they pay what you were refunded to join, they can also take over any bookings you had in the system at the time. However they are on a new membership , and yours is canceled. Eg say in 10 years a 4 week membership is $400,000 and you wanted to leave and were owed 80,000 back ( 80 % of 100,000 ) you could invite a friend to take your place , they would pay $80,000 and you would get back your $80,000. Now your friend if he had have joined of the street, just his non refundable part would have been $80,000. You have saved him a bunch of money , while he would still only get $80,000 back when he leaves ....you would no doubt have a discussion about what it was worth for him to save all that money ....


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> Nick
> If this is in place, it will be an absolute no brainer to join.
> 
> Just want to make a comment about your web site, since you do look at this thread for useful feedback
> 1. The main photos of the destinations are great. The thumbnails in the bottom right corner are not clear and do not give your destinations justice. I think that most people who consider DC's are internet savvy and will scour the web sites, I think that full size pictures will offer a better representation of your wonderful destinations. Perhaps even a link to a PDF of your brochure.
> 2. There is an error in calculation under your column, Membership, Dollars and Sense, Review the Figures in Detail.  Under Rental property you have;
> Motor Vehicle      $4200      (OK, conservative figure)
> Vacation Costs    $3600      (To be fair to DHH, it should be $4000)
> Nightly Charges    $70,000   ($2500/day, a fair figure for this quality)
> 
> Total                 $77,800 for 28 days
> 
> Daily Cost            $1691    (Where did this come from? Should be:
> $77,800/28 or $2779)
> 
> 
> Hope this is helpful
> 
> Those fuel costs for an 86ft motor yacht are a killer($400 for every 20 nautical miles, ) . How about another sailboat in the Carribean? I will try to convince others to join.




My fault , you can click on the thumb nails and they become big pictures , just not that obvious is it ....will see what we can do to make it more obvious ...

And yes a typo re the numbers should be $2779 ....must of happened when we change the site recently , thanks for the heads up , i will get programmers to change ...

The plan is to have at least 1 of each size yacht in each region , so there will be more choices in that area as soon as we add enough members in the US ..


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

Kagehitokiri said:


> very good! i presume you mean premium, correct? (#1) deluxe is currently 90 days.
> 
> instead of waitlisting, very interesting.
> 
> VERY interesting! so you just pay a $5K fee to the club to transfer the membership? (#2)
> 
> value is great, although IMHO the interior design of the 65' is better. too bad its the one farther away. OTOH gives me another reason to make a trip over there
> 
> agreed - i also like the "romance" of sailing  (as in the feeling of tradition/history/etc)
> 
> -----
> 
> i definitely like what im hearing about your property/destination selection strategies, many of your policies, and your pricing.
> 
> -----
> 
> one clarification - re use by children - can they also use the space available(SAB?) nights? (#3)
> 
> also, correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt one of the yachts either in Martha's Vineyard/Bahamas earlier this year, or scheduled to be later this year until a scheduling change? (#4)




Sorry , i am not quite getting the question re children ?

No the yachts were not going to be in Martha's / Bahamas ... but they will be in the future


----------



## Kagehitokiri

removed and moved


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

puffpuff said:


> 1. to avoid confusion, when I say the "current and prevailing" rate, I  mean the rack rate at the time of joing membership.
> 
> I believe that a three year  window for members joining now to upgrade is fair. Most clubs offer this now when it comes down to closing the deal as there is simply no down side.
> 
> 
> 2. The other clincher is to offer some upside appreciation in membership fee, provided that the member stays in the club for a certain period of time. Statistics show that those who stay around for three years and happy do not leave. That is already proven. On the contrary ,they act as the best salesman for you to recruit new members because they already know the system and they want their friends to do things together within the same system. Members are thus lock in for you over time and you can count on their repeat annual dues. UR and Cresendo have similar packages. The days of 80% straight refund without upside is something of the past unless you are ER. Too much competition out there.
> 
> I would suggest something like:
> 
> 90% of prevailing membership price for members in the club  five or more years
> 80% of prevailing membership price for memebrs in the club 3-5 years
> 80% of price paid for membersship  under three years as you currently have unchanged.
> 
> as the club gets stronger, you can choose to stop this in time or simply extend the time period out longer to have a carrot out there for new members, but not as good as charter members. Its a win win for club and members. Now you can also label yourself as a "equity" type club- another good sales point.
> 
> I belivee if you   adopt the above , togehter with a three  year upgrade window. you are giving away nothing in practical terms, but gaining confidence and overcome and cover all the basis of why people dont want to joinn. As well, and most important,  you are locking in long term members without maketing cost and eliminate drop out , but  guarantees you recurrent and rising  annual dues revenue stream in this early phase. This type of carrot you throw out does not affact cash flow . This is not the same as offering too much service you cannot deliver which affact cash flow.
> 
> THese two suggestions are cash flow neutral to positive, annual fee positive. Almost all clubs all have done similar programs when they started out. No one complaint then and no one complain now. Only people who miss it kicks themselvs, and those who have it stay on as members and will never leave. Win win for operator and member.
> 
> Because DHH is so new and DC as a whole is still a young concept, you are not goign to get 200 people to join even before SEpt 30, 2007 even if you offer the two suggestions. So the max you have is say 30-50   members, but this will be your core group to start spreadinig the word for you. So in the worse worse case senerio, and say you have a redemption rate of of one in four, your down side is 10 members taking "advantage" of this 5 years down the line, when you arleady would have hundreds of members, making this  redemption, even if carried out en mass,  meaningless in the overall scheme of things. But you have locked in 5 years of annual dues in a stroke, so in the worse case, you still come out ahead in cash flow while any redempton may or may not happen until 5 years out.
> 
> The bottom line is that whatever you do in this charter period is only going to affact a small number of people. But this is the key group taht will be your ambassador . They will save you a  lot of $$$ in markting cost. That alone is worth hundreds times more  $$$$$$. The more carrot you throw out provide that it is not immedaite cash flow negative, the better it is for you over time in my  opinion.
> 
> The complete charter package :
> 
> 1. 25k joing fee for 7 days unchanged
> 2. $1000 a day with all the amenties you promised unchanged
> 3. Ability to roll foward as you already have in place now
> 4. Abiliy to upgrade within 3 years
> 5. participate in the appreciation of membership fee with lock in period
> 
> Who would not join if they are half way serious? All this done at practically no down side to you.



I get your point .....and i understand your request ....

However i am not having any problem signing Members at present, nor does it matter to us how quickly we sign them, as our Resort in Fiji covers 100 % of our opex ... so we can run forever so to speak ...

We did not want to be in the "same box" as other clubs , with some crazy need to had members quickly ...

Our original business model called for membership appreciation in value, unfortunately after extensive legal advice , we are very clear that anything that returns you more money than you started with "from the club" is an investment, and then is caught by the Securities Requirements of every country you operate in, and this requires a whole different way of doing things. Many of the clubs currently offering this option are incorrectly structured for this , and will run into serious issues in the near term...

I am open to the idea of allowing a time window for upgrade to people who are early adopters , so they can pay the same amount , for some time in the future ... will be back with a response re this within the week ...


----------



## Kagehitokiri

thats odd, i would have sworn i saw those destinations on a yacht schedule originally.. 
(when i made this post http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=368369&postcount=4)

can members' children book SAB nights @ $300 rate?

it is the premium membership SAB window that is changing from 60 to 90 days, correct?

and so there is a $5K fee when transferring membership?


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

Kagehitokiri said:


> thats odd, i would have sworn i saw those destinations on a yacht schedule originally..
> (when i made this post http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=368369&postcount=4)
> 
> can members' children book SAB nights @ $300 rate?
> 
> 
> it is the premium membership SAB window that is changing from 60 to 90 days, correct?
> 
> and so there is a $5K fee when transferring membership?



No , must have been wishful thinking  , but we will have that on the agenda.

No Adult children of members can only stay without the member Present using family Days , which can only be used with your actual days....

Yes Premium , my mistake ...


----------



## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> I am open to the idea of allowing a time window for upgrade to people who are early adopters , so they can pay the same amount , for some time in the future ... will be back with a response re this within the week ...



Am looking forward to your decision on this.


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> Am looking forward to your decision on this.



We are having a vote about this , should have a response within the next 48 hours ...

Cheers

Nick


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> Am looking forward to your decision on this.



It has been decided that anyone member joining before the 30th September will have 12 months from the day they joined to upgrade to another plan at the same rate per week as the rate they joined ie $25,000 per week.

Cheers

Nick Wood


----------



## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> It has been decided that anyone member joining before the 30th September will have 12 months from the day they joined to upgrade to another plan at the same rate per week as the rate they joined ie $25,000 per week.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Nick Wood



Definately a good plan. Thanks.


----------



## LTTravel

DHH
$3 million dollar homes
currently 6 homes, 2 boats (including 86ft yacht and 7000 sq foot home in Beaver Creek and other nice choices)
International destinations(with local holiday periods)
$25,000 per week membership deposit (doubling at the end of the month)
80% refundable
$7000 per week membership dues
1-5 week plans 
Add up to three friends for $5000 each
Transfer membership for $5000 (potential increase in value of membership!)
Adult children can use the days
$300 per day space available
$1000 per week food allowance
Luxury SUV(some destinations have 2)($800+ value)
Motor boats at some destinations
Airport Transfers($300 value)
Daily maid service, including breakfast preparation and laundry($250 Extra Value)
Concierge services
$7000 per week for the homes
$3000-$8000 per week for the boats
Bank or borrow one week per year
12 months to upgrade at current pricing
$25 million in the black
CEO will chat with you online, talks and listens.

I have no free time (or money) left but I don't think I can resist
I think that I could sell this idea.
Any other thoughts by Tuggers?


----------



## Kagehitokiri

the value is great, especially with the yachts - although moreso with the space available days than the plan days.

and the destination/property selection criteria that nick discussed sounded great to me.

IMHO the ability to transfer to anyone is the most interesting benefit.

incentives to join before sept 30 
- deposit pricing will double ($25K/wk > $50K/wk)
- ability to upgrade at current deposit pricing within 12 months


----------



## Steamboat Bill

My #1 concern is their long term survivalability as these prices seem way too low, but perhaps this is simply the benefit to being an early adopter.

Are they planning on joining the DCA and have a net asset test?


----------



## LTTravel

Steamboat Bill said:


> My #1 concern is their long term survivalability as these prices seem way too low, but perhaps this is simply the benefit to being an early adopter.
> 
> Are they planning on joining the DCA and have a net asset test?



They say they will have an independant audit and are currently $25 million in the black.


----------



## Steamboat Bill

LTTravel said:


> They say they will have an independant audit and are currently $25 million in the black.



Thanks...I feel MUCH better now. But as they say in Jerry McGuire...."Show me the money"


----------



## Kagehitokiri

nick did say they are trying to join the DCA. also said independent audit by December. >
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=381143&postcount=35

$25MM reserve was indicated on their website. nick emphasized the cash flow from Octopus Resort. also talked about the model some in response to questions >
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=381143&postcount=33


----------



## PerryM

*Sounds promising....*



LTTravel said:


> DHH
> $3 million dollar homes
> currently 6 homes, 2 boats (including 86ft yacht and 7000 sq foot home in Beaver Creek and other nice choices)
> International destinations(with local holiday periods)
> $25,000 per week membership deposit (doubling at the end of the month)
> 80% refundable
> $7000 per week membership dues
> 1-5 week plans
> Add up to three friends for $5000 each
> Transfer membership for $5000 (potential increase in value of membership!)
> Adult children can use the days
> $300 per day space available
> $1000 per week food allowance
> Luxury SUV(some destinations have 2)($800+ value)
> Motor boats at some destinations
> Airport Transfers($300 value)
> Daily maid service, including breakfast preparation and laundry($250 Extra Value)
> Concierge services
> $7000 per week for the homes
> $3000-$8000 per week for the boats
> Bank or borrow one week per year
> 12 months to upgrade at current pricing
> $25 million in the black
> CEO will chat with you online, talks and listens.
> 
> I have no free time (or money) left but I don't think I can resist
> I think that I could sell this idea.
> Any other thoughts by Tuggers?



I’ve been out of the DC discussion for a while – I like what I’m hearing here:
1)	Transfer membership
2)	Cars/boats included
3)	Daily maid service including breakfast and laundry
4)	Bank and borrow weeks
5)	$1,000 food allowance (I don’t know what it is but sounds delicious)
6) 100% owned - NO debt to service

I just don’t understand why these DCs aren’t Point oriented and allow you to buy as much or as little as you want and feel "Creative" in the usage of the DC.

But hopefully this DC will cause others to break from the original mold which is getting moldy to me.

P.S.
So if they can do it for $25k what's the reason existing DC's can't offer these goodies too?

Sounds like these guys are not overgrown timeshare folks - they seem to be selling a great dream vacation to their members and not a little fancier timeshare.


Now if they had just picked Points as a currency instead of weeks they could easily outrun a lot of DCs that seem to be stuck in Yesterday.


----------



## Kagehitokiri

and i dont understand why people dont understand the whole point of DCs (and fractional ownership) is to *not* have points  its not "weeks" its NIGHTS. different clubs have different min/max nights set.

- HCC allows unlimited last minute(1 week out?) for free. (private members)

- DHH allows unlimited space available use @ $300/nt. (others charge between $1000-$2500 for additional space available or plan nights.)

- worldwide private residences allows "at least" 35 nights, with no annual fee.

- solstice allows unlimited space available for free.

- lusso and ciel allow virtually unlimited use.

other clubs didnt have the same reserve/cash flow (as a parallel hospitality venture). some did have the "reserve" like yellowstone club world and ciel. they launched with huge portfolios, although they do recoup faster with the higher pricing. ciel also tried to get more of a cash flow, by bidding on the tanner haley sell off.

perry and bill, id recommend taking a look at nick's comments on the business model. id be interested in hearing your thoughts.


----------



## Steamboat Bill

I think DHH has a lot of potential, just using the yachts alone is worth the cost of membership. I have chartered yachts in the BVI and it is VERY expensive. One of the reasons I like PE is that they have a yacht in the BVIs, yet the DHH yachts seem nicer.

My main concerns are:

1. This is still a new and unproven club with only 18 or so members.

2. If all 18 members paid $25k, then they brought in only $450k total, yet they have $25m in the bank....seems strange. If I was an investor/owner, I would want a buy-in in the $100k or more range.

3. Most of their properties are located FAR away from me.

Yes, the current price seems to be a bargain, but this is probably the riskiest club to join as they are still new. In a year or two, if they expand the club and add more properties, these initial concerns will dissapear.

I remember looking at HCC when they only had 9 Colorado properties and passed on joining. When they had 20 properties and 120 members, I joined, but ended up sepnding $20k MORE than I would have if I joined when I first heard of them. Oh well, at least I saved $10k as compared to joining now.


----------



## Kagehitokiri

i agree. its not just about # of properties, its about type/destination. thats another reason why i would wait to consider DHH, WPR, ciel - lack of beach properties right now. ill be fine paying more later. 

and its also that i want to really make use of the club when i buy, but thats another issue, and why i dont buy lusso, which has more beach properties, right now.

also agree PE's yacht isnt that appealing IMHO.



nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> The occupancy rate i referred to is what we would have if all members were using their full allocation of weeks at that point in time, as we have invested over $25 million in destinations and infrastructure ahead of signing members, we will have a much lower occupancy rate from the beginning as we have homes which did not require members deposits. We intend to this sustain this rate out into the future, for as long as possible.
> 
> The long run occupancy will be approx 65 % or 35 weeks per year to deliver 100 % of our Members vacations ... this generates $50,000 x 35 = $1,750,000 in deposits. The average purchase price of our homes to date over the last 2 years has been just under $2 million dollars we spend around 100,000 on furnishings so we will have at this level $350,000 in debt but on a home that is worth once renovated around $3 million so we carry around 10 % debt on the new properties going forward, and zero on the ones we have to date ..
> 
> If you took a very simplistic snap shot forward where we had added 20 more homes, we would have approx $85,000,000 of homes all together and around $7,000,000 of loans so overall debt gearing of approx  8 %.  Refundable Member Deposits of $29,000,000, so our net asset to Member deposits and debt is 2.36 i.e. we cover the debt and Member liability 2.36 times .. even if the property market took a dump and the property values dropped 30 % we still have 1.63 times the Member deposits and bank loans.
> 
> We collect $245,000 a year in annual dues per home ($35 x 7,000) which taking a simple view allows for the following:
> 
> Mortgage $25,200
> Concierge $45,000
> Food & Bev $34,000
> Cleaners  $15,000
> Property Tax ( this only applies in the US) $25,000
> Insurance $10,000
> Car lease $9,000
> Car Ins $3000
> Power $12,000
> Cable & Internet $2400
> Transportation $10500
> Consumables $7000
> 
> Which leaves an additional $47,000 per year for maintenance , replacement of  furniture due to ware and tear head office costs etc ....
> 
> The above is a very simple view, as we have different costs in each market to provide the same solution so our actual average is a lot lower ...when you take into account lower interest rates in Europe, and lower costs of doing business in the Pacific and Europe etc ...but this at least proves that the basic system works ...
> 
> I hope this clears up some of your questions about the sustainability of Destination Clubs as a whole ...
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Nick


----------



## LTTravel

Bill,
You were wise to do your due diligence, but at #120, you may have just missed the "equity" membership in HCC (which unofficially ended at member 100) Still a great deal. My friend just spent over $10,000 for one week in a 1 BR at LaCosta. 

K,
Lusso is also a good buy if it remains viable, with 100% plus 50% of increase in membership fee refund on exit and virtually unlimited use, however, I think the increase in membership fee policy may end this month.(They were talking about ending it after 100 members and they will probably pass that this month) They also have very nice homes, SUV on site, Airport transfers, accessable CEO. 

Ciel, Solstice, both probably very good, but very expensive
Quintess, also very good, impressive $4 million homes, more expensive than ER
ER has the widest portfolio and greatest selection, also very expensive
PE IMHO also a very good DC, good selection, well thought out
UR now with 100 homes after purchase of T & H, 80% current price on exit, may be worth looking at. 
Bellehavens 90% on exit, equity membership, happy member on this forum, also appears to be a good DC
HCC, definately the value leader
just to name a few that were mentioned. 


DHH is the only one that allows you to get a true membership with a commitment of only one week, and now, Nick has offered to let the memberhship be able to be upgraded at the same price for 12 months (though 24 months would have been even better) Yes, the homes  are far away, but you can limit your commitment and they have an outline for expansion which includes NYC, South Beach and St. Maarten. And, it is the only one that allows you to transfer your membership. And they give you 90 days to think about it. 

No, I don't work for DHH, (unless Nick wants to hire me) but $3000 for one week on a 53 foot sailboat in the mediteranean with a captain ($17.86 an hour, they want $120+ per hour for a jet ski when I go on vacation), with other extras, and all the other things we have discussed; please don't tell my wife, but I think I will be in for at least one week by the 30th.


----------



## travelguy

Kagehitokiri said:


> and i dont understand why people dont understand the whole point of DCs (and fractional ownership) is to *not* have points  its not "weeks" its NIGHTS. different clubs have different min/max nights set.



Uh oh ..... I sense a classic TUG "weeks vs. points" debate coming...


----------



## travelguy

*DHH Due Diligence*

A few quick comments on DHH and the due diligence involved in making a purchase decision:

1. I believe they are New Zealand based.  As a potential purchaser, I have no idea of that country's standards of business & accounting, legal recourse and if they are even legally authorized to sell memberships in the US (I'll assume that they are).

2. It seems that the $25Mil is the standard answer to membership RISK.  Where is the $25Mil located, who put it there, how are memberships secured by it, are there any other "liens" or secured positions on it (do memberships have a perfect, first position lien?) and what's to keep someone from taking the $25mill back?  Has anyone done the actual legal searches to find out these questions?

3. The Fiji resort is also said to provide cash flow for the DHH DC.  Why??  If the Fiji resort throws off so much cash, and is presumably very profitable, why take the business risk of funding a DC for the YEARS it may take before the DH is cash positive?  What is the corporate relationship between the Fiji Resort and DHH?  What's to keep the Fiji resort from stopping the funding to DHH if times get rocky for EITHER the Fiji resort or DHH?

I have other concerns about DHH but I'll leave it at these comments for now.  Personally, I would not consider a DC membership unless I could review the spreadsheets of a long-term (5 to 10 yr) business plan including detailed business model, P&L, Balance Sheet and, most importantly, cash-flow projection.

I understand that Nick will address these issues and appears to be forthcoming with the appropriate answers BUT remember that anything can be said by anyone on an internet board (or as PerryM likes to say "some guy on the other end of the phone").  With all due respect to Nick and DHH, has anyone done the actual due diligence?


----------



## LTTravel

travelguy said:


> A few quick comments on DHH and the due diligence involved in making a purchase decision:
> 
> 1. I believe they are New Zealand based.  As a potential purchaser, I have no idea of that country's standards of business & accounting, legal recourse and if they are even legally authorized to sell memberships in the US (I'll assume that they are).
> 
> 2. It seems that the $25Mil is the standard answer to membership RISK.  Where is the $25Mil located, who put it there, how are memberships secured by it, are there any other "liens" or secured positions on it (do memberships have a perfect, first position lien?) and what's to keep someone from taking the $25mill back?  Has anyone done the actual legal searches to find out these questions?
> 
> 3. The Fiji resort is also said to provide cash flow for the DHH DC.  Why??  If the Fiji resort throws off so much cash, and is presumably very profitable, why take the business risk of funding a DC for the YEARS it may take before the DH is cash positive?  What is the corporate relationship between the Fiji Resort and DHH?  What's to keep the Fiji resort from stopping the funding to DHH if times get rocky for EITHER the Fiji resort or DHH?
> 
> I have other concerns about DHH but I'll leave it at these comments for now.  Personally, I would not consider a DC membership unless I could review the spreadsheets of a long-term (5 to 10 yr) business plan including detailed business model, P&L, Balance Sheet and, most importantly, cash-flow projection.
> 
> I understand that Nick will address these issues and appears to be forthcoming with the appropriate answers BUT remember that anything can be said by anyone on an internet board (or as PerryM likes to say "some guy on the other end of the phone").  With all due respect to Nick and DHH, has anyone done the actual due diligence?



1. I believe that the company was actually set up in Santa Monica
2. The web site and membesrhip agreement state that crediters are paid first(i.e. remaining mortgages, etc), then members and then owners. I presume that the owners have already commited the first $25 million as start up
3. The Fiji resort appears to span from budget to luxury, 95% occupied, but not a very large resort. I don't quite understand how it is generating that much money also

But I would let Nick answer these questions for you. Those who took a risk with almost all current  DC's (except Tanner and Haley) are very happy they did, at least for now. I see this as relatively low risk ($25,000 per week as opposed to a $400,0000+ investment in some of the other DC's)


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

Steamboat Bill said:


> My #1 concern is their long term survivalability as these prices seem way too low, but perhaps this is simply the benefit to being an early adopter.
> 
> Are they planning on joining the DCA and have a net asset test?



Yes we are in the process , and we will have audited accounts after YE 07 , and will publish net asset numbers every 6 months ...

Current ratio of Net assets to deposits is 25:1 , DCA expectation is .66:1 which is a lot worse than our current ratio ...


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> 1. I believe that the company was actually set up in Santa Monica
> 2. The web site and membesrhip agreement state that crediters are paid first(i.e. remaining mortgages, etc), then members and then owners. I presume that the owners have already commited the first $25 million as start up
> 3. The Fiji resort appears to span from budget to luxury, 95% occupied, but not a very large resort. I don't quite understand how it is generating that much money also
> 
> But I would let Nick answer these questions for you. Those who took a risk with almost all current  DC's (except Tanner and Haley) are very happy they did, at least for now. I see this as relatively low risk ($25,000 per week as opposed to a $400,0000+ investment in some of the other DC's)



We are a Delaware LLC , so a US corporation, with our Head office in Santa Monica, we have shareholders from all around the world, the main ones are from NZ.

We did commit over $25 million at the start.

The resort is very profitable, and runs full all the time, it more than covers the overheads.

Our membership count should be around 40 Members by months end, based on the number of applications we are processing, our main marketing only started in July/August worldwide , the mix of Members are spread all around the world , to help occupancy ...we now have some US Members.

When we get to 150 Members ( aim is by next May) the club will have at least another 5 Destinations, and they will probably be Hawaii, Caribbean , boat in Caribbean,   Chateaux in France, New York.


----------



## PerryM

*Q & A*



nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> We are a Delaware LLC , so a US corporation, with our Head office in Santa Monica, we have shareholders from all around the world, the main ones are from NZ.
> 
> We did commit over $25 million at the start.
> 
> The resort is very profitable, and runs full all the time, it more than covers the overheads.
> 
> Our membership count should be around 40 Members by months end, based on the number of applications we are processing, our main marketing only started in July/August worldwide , the mix of Members are spread all around the world , to help occupancy ...we now have some US Members.
> 
> When we get to 150 Members ( aim is by next May) the club will have at least another 5 Destinations, and they will probably be Hawaii, Caribbean , boat in Caribbean,   Chateaux in France, New York.



Ok, what can you do to convince me to become a member now?  I snowboard and love the beach.  I don't want to go to Europe but love the Caribbean area.

Here are my concerns - and they don't have anything really to do with just your DC:

1) The membership fee - how do I know that I can get it back when I want out?

2) MFs - all DCs are eye watering to begin with, what will I be paying in 10 years?

3) How do I know I can get out if I want out?

4) I'm all booked up for the next 13 months - couldn't squeeze another vacation in if I tried

Thanks for any insight.


Good luck with your DC.


----------



## LTTravel

PerryM said:


> Ok, what can you do to convince me to become a member now?  I snowboard and love the beach.  I don't want to go to Europe but love the Caribbean area.
> 
> Here are my concerns - and they don't have anything really to do with just your DC:
> 
> 1) The membership fee - how do I know that I can get it back when I want out?
> 
> 2) MFs - all DCs are eye watering to begin with, what will I be paying in 10 years?
> 
> 3) How do I know I can get out if I want out?
> 
> 4) I'm all booked up for the next 13 months - couldn't squeeze another vacation in if I tried
> 
> Thanks for any insight.
> 
> 
> Good luck with your DC.



I looked into this also and had the same concerns. From what I see

1., 3. They have a 1 in 1 out policy
2. They limit increases to CPI + 3.5% per year, assume the worst, but to remain a viable club, they should be reasonable.
4. You can bank one week from this year to next year, if you buy in for one week. You have up to 12 months to upgrade, which I assume, if you upgrade in 11 months 29 days, means that the membership at the higher level actually starts next year.


----------



## PerryM

LTTravel said:


> I looked into this also and had the same concerns. From what I see
> 
> 1., 3. They have a 1 in 1 out policy
> 2. They limit increases to CPI + 3.5% per year, assume the worst, but to remain a viable club, they should be reasonable.
> 4. You can bank one week from this year to next year, if you buy in for one week. You have up to 12 months to upgrade, which I assume, if you upgrade in 11 months 29 days, means that the membership at the higher level actually starts next year.




Thanks,


I remember having the same conversation with HCC.  There you can't roll forward your week.  Here I guess I pay $7,000 to postpone my vacation for 1 year - seems pretty stiff but I understand they have tried to at least address the problem.  HCC let me postpone MFs for 1 year to accommodate my existing vacation structure.

So, would this DC all me to join and not use the DC for 13 months while I work off my reservations and NOT pay the MF?


----------



## Kagehitokiri

and their "equity" model takes it out of the club's hands and puts it in your own >



			
				nick said:
			
		

> 5. You can find someone to take your place , not your membership , you are refunded the 80 % , and they pay what you were refunded to join, they can also take over any bookings you had in the system at the time. However they are on a new membership , and yours is canceled. Eg say in 10 years a 4 week membership is $400,000 and you wanted to leave and were owed 80,000 back ( 80 % of 100,000 ) you could invite a friend to take your place , they would pay $80,000 and you would get back your $80,000. Now your friend if he had have joined of the street, just his non refundable part would have been $80,000. You have saved him a bunch of money , while he would still only get $80,000 back when he leaves ....you would no doubt have a discussion about what it was worth for him to save all that money ....



so instead of selling your resigned membership for a lot more, they allow you to do so, as a potential benefit. no promises or sales effort required by them, and they might get people who wouldnt have paid current list price. works for them since the profits come from the annual fees, as the deposits are supposed to be used for property acquisition.


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

PerryM said:


> Ok, what can you do to convince me to become a member now?  I snowboard and love the beach.  I don't want to go to Europe but love the Caribbean area.
> 
> Here are my concerns - and they don't have anything really to do with just your DC:
> 
> 1) The membership fee - how do I know that I can get it back when I want out?
> 
> 2) MFs - all DCs are eye watering to begin with, what will I be paying in 10 years?
> 
> 3) How do I know I can get out if I want out?
> 
> 4) I'm all booked up for the next 13 months - couldn't squeeze another vacation in if I tried
> 
> Thanks for any insight.
> 
> 
> Good luck with your DC.



Hi , and thanks ....

So long as members are joining , there is no problem getting your Membership fee back. But nobody can give you a 100 % iron clad guarantee .. if people stop liking the destination/s ( even with time share ) then you will have trouble getting out of either ... 

The costs are higher with DC per year , but you get a lot for this , and we are talking about amazing property with 6 star service , so this costs real money no way around this ...the reality is the annual dues will only go up with inflation .....

We will add properties in the Caribbean & Hawaii as our next US destinations along with a 86 ft Yacht for the region, just requires American Members to join ... if things go as planned we will have these properties in place sometime next year ...

You hard working Americans never seem to get much vacation time .... you need to copy the rest of us and take 4 - 8 weeks a year  

Cheers

Nick


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

Kagehitokiri said:


> and their "equity" model takes it out of the club's hands and puts it in your own >
> 
> 
> 
> so instead of selling your resigned membership for a lot more, they allow you to do so, as a potential benefit. no promises or sales effort required by them, and they might get people who wouldnt have paid current list price. works for them since the profits come from the annual fees, as the deposits are supposed to be used for property acquisition.



Just to clear something up , we don't make profits from annual dues , we only charge what it costs to run the properties, our profit comes from the non-refundable part of the joining fee, and the capital gains over time of the property ...


----------



## GOLFNBEACH

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Just to clear something up , we don't make profits from annual dues , we only charge what it costs to run the properties, our profit comes from the non-refundable part of the joining fee, and the capital gains over time of the property ...



I don't understand.  If the only profit comes from the non-refundable part of the joining fee, and the capital gains over time on the property...you can't realize profits until members leave or you sell the properties.  

How is this a sustainable business model?


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

GOLFNBEACH said:


> I don't understand.  If the only profit comes from the non-refundable part of the joining fee, and the capital gains over time on the property...you can't realize profits until members leave or you sell the properties.
> 
> How is this a sustainable business model?



Well as the non refundable part is just that non-refundable you can take profits from this on a regular basis once you are up to a level of members that cover your baseline opex and head office & Marketing costs ...

And the reality is at some point in the future the shareholders will take some of the capital gains off the table, by listing the group on the stock market as a property trust ...

We love providing this very cool service we offer , but we don't get out of bed every day to work 15 hour days for free just because we love what we do , so we have made sure we are covered


----------



## puffpuff

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Well as the non refundable part is just that non-refundable you can take profits from this on a regular basis once you are up to a level of members that cover your baseline opex and head office & Marketing costs ...
> 
> And the reality is at some point in the future the shareholders will take some of the capital gains off the table, by listing the group on the stock market as a property trust ...
> 
> We love providing this very cool service we offer , but we don't get out of bed every day to work 15 hour days for free just because we love what we do , so we have made sure we are covered


To recup 5% of 25,000,000 invested so far, about 125 membershp week needs to be sold at 50,000 per week per year. This number will go up if you add in opertion and marketing expenses which is not part of the dues accordingly. I am not a finance person but it seems like you have to sell a lot of membership weeks before the owners see some cash flow benefit. At the interim, I suppose the the membership fee will pay for the opertional cash flow and marketing. Shareholders will need ongoing appreciation on properties to realize paper gain and sell of properties to "cash out". REIT structure has been considered by many DC as an exit stretegy in the US but it is not workable due to regulatory constraints. Perhaps it is different elsewhere.  I could be wrong.


----------



## LTTravel

puffpuff said:


> To recup 5% of 25,000,000 invested so far, about 125 membershp week needs to be sold at 50,000 per week per year. This number will go up if you add in opertion and marketing expenses which is not part of the dues accordingly. I am not a finance person but it seems like you have to sell a lot of membership weeks before the owners see some cash flow benefit. At the interim, I suppose the the membership fee will pay for the opertional cash flow and marketing. Shareholders will need ongoing appreciation on properties to realize paper gain and sell of properties to "cash out". REIT structure has been considered by many DC as an exit stretegy in the US but it is not workable due to regulatory constraints. Perhaps it is different elsewhere.  I could be wrong.



125 membership weeks is only 25 5 week memberships. I think that though many may join initially at only 1-3 weeks, there will be some 4 and 5 week memberships sold. I don't think 125 membership weeks is alot. ER got lucky (sponsorship by a billionaire, bankruptucy of #1(which later became #2 when ER was bought out by a billionaire)) I think those two factors were the most important in its success yet they have over 3000 members, the majority of which are at the six week level. (I don't know the exact breakdown but when they were at 2500 members I enquired and was told that more than 50% were elite members) I think that if they do it right, DHH will succeed. But I think that they will realize that there best customers are current satisfied customers, so those who buy in at one week are the most likely to buy a second week. That is why I think that it was very important for them to allow upgrade at currently pricing for up to a year. I think that current members are still the best customers and other incentives, even after a year will be their best bet. Just look how DVC, and other timeshares do it.


----------



## LTTravel

DHH just added the new home in Queenstown to their web site as well as new photos of the 53 foot boat. Very Nice! Sure, Queenstown is probably the last place I will go to but if that is the quality of their homes, I look forward to seeing their other new destinations as they come up. The boat also looks very nice. I am going to Turks this weekend and A sailboat is well over $1000 per day(probably not as nice as this one). I will pass on it for now and if I do join DHH (getting very close) I'll use it then for $3000 for a week.


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## Kagehitokiri

cool news.

the queenstown pics dont seem to be loading for me at the moment.

speaking of which, im honestly not the biggest fan of sites designed the way DHH's is, with scripts/flash/etc that require processing/rendering time, instead of just loading time. http://www.winvian.com (resort) is definitely one of the worst ive seen. at least DHH isn't that bad, and has a lot more info.


----------



## puffpuff

Major consolidation is happeing in the industry, with UR and PE merging . I personally find DHH a value play at this time if you like yachts, as that is the main draw.  Other than that, I have a hard time seeing how DHH can compete going forward in terms of depth and breadth. Other players will come out with yachts too. There is no magic to this. 

DHH may be a niche player. DHH may have a lot of cash on hand and cash flow may not be a issue, , and I wish them the best, but I find the business model difficult to sustain if I am the owner and have to leverage to fund this project. I could be wrong of course.


----------



## vineyarder

> Sure, Queenstown is probably the last place I will go to



Just as an aside, Queenstown is one of the most beautiful areas I've ever been to... However we were able to rent (in high season) an incredible condo with phenomenal views at a very reasonable rate (around $400 USD/nt), so I wouldn't want to pay $1000 per day for a DC home there, even if it came with a luxury SUV and $150 F&B allowance...


----------



## Kagehitokiri

how large was the condo??

while i would agree $1000/nt is high for some of the properties, it sounds like in Queenstown its NOT from that comparison.


----------



## vineyarder

> how large was the condo??
> 
> while i would agree $1000/nt is high for some of the properties, it sounds like in Queenstown its NOT from that comparison.



It was about 2200 sq ft, 3 bdrm, with unbelievable views, and my wife just reminded me that it was $400 NZD, not $400 USD, which at that time (3 yrs ago) was $240 USD... and it was a 5 min walk to downtown, not out in the suburbs.

But whether or not you join DHH, go to Queenstown!


----------



## travelguy

puffpuff said:


> DHH may be a niche player. DHH may have a lot of cash on hand and cash flow may not be a issue, , and I wish them the best, but I find the business model difficult to sustain if I am the owner and have to leverage to fund this project.



I agree with your assessment.


----------



## Kagehitokiri

property list >

mountain
beaver creek - 6BR home
lake tahoe - 4BR home

beach
noosa - 4BR home
octopus resort, fiji - 3BR home

mediterranean
86' motor yacht -  4 cabins (8 plan days for 1 week + fuel)
53' hanse sailing yacht - 3 cabins (3 plan days for 1 week + fuel)

city 
paris - 3BR condo

leisure
tuscany - 7BR home

south pacific
63' hanse sailing yacht - 3 cabins (5 plan days for 1 week + fuel)

<upcoming>
queenstown - 5BR home - december 2007
megeve - 3BR home - january 2008


----------



## LTTravel

vineyarder said:


> It was about 2200 sq ft, 3 bdrm, with unbelievable views, and my wife just reminded me that it was $400 NZD, not $400 USD, which at that time (3 yrs ago) was $240 USD... and it was a 5 min walk to downtown, not out in the suburbs.
> 
> But whether or not you join DHH, go to Queenstown!



VRBO has a listing of a beautiful 5 BR apartment $520-590 per night and an estate at $1500 per night. Guess this Queenstown home is good for extra space available days at $300 per night.


----------



## LTTravel

The deadline for the price increase to double the membership fee is only 11 days away. Any new thoughts on DHH? THe UR/PE merge and the ER marketing fiasco has diverted my attention from this. I still am considering joining. I love their boats, homes, ancillary features and plans. And it is the only club where you can enter at such a low level (except for HCC trial, PE is a two week trial)


----------



## NAL

First off, I just found this forum and am really excited; what a great resource. 

I investigated nearly every Destination Club early this year but I wish I had known about DHH in January when I joined HCC. This is exactly what I was looking for. HCC is great but the properties are smaller and the service component is not there as I was looking for the bling but without the huge deposit. Plus, I usually travel internationally and have family and friends in Australia so that emphasis is great. Also, HCC said they would have a Tahoe property around April but still nothing and no properties near me (SF Bay Area). So I am left with 7 nights that I won't be able to use before my year is up since I was planning to do some local last minute trips when Tahoe/Napa/whatever close came online. Makes my per night charge much higher.

Any others planning to do HCC *and *DHH? I don't think I have that much travel time so I'm not sure keeping both makes sense but I also don't like taking the 20% loss on HCC since I've only been a member for a year. 

Anyone seen any of the DHH properties in person? I have a weekend in October and would love to check out the Tahoe property but that is after the price increase.  

Ugh, what to do??

Incidentally, I'm not sure why HCC decided on two tuscany units in the *same *complex (and HCC is not alone in this). The ideal would be to do two locations and offer a week split between the two. Offer up 4 days in one and 3 days in the other and vice versa to a second traveler. How come no one has come up with this booking concept yet? Does everyone want to stay 7 days in the same spot? I liked that DHH said they would not be getting multiple units in the same location since variety is important but booking policies would need to change since I don't have 3-4 weeks to go to multiple locations. I wish we Americans had the ability to vacation like Europeans, Kiwis and Aussies.


----------



## Steamboat Bill

NAL

You are the first person I have heard from with complaints about HCC and quite honestly, I am a little confused.

1. HCC NEVER promised Tahoe to anyone ever! It is on the wish list.

2. DHH is an interesting club, but is NEW and has NOT stood the test of time and the jury is still out on this club. I LOVE the fact that they have great yachts, but their business plan needs scrutiney.

3. Only a handful of HCC properties can be considered small. Some are quite large. They have 30 to choose.

4. If you joined HCC in January, you are only 9 nonths into the plan. Call Heath and tell him you want out and I am reasonably sure you can get a 100% refund. Use my name as a referral and I will try to get this for you if you want.

5. How about Mexico in Ortober?

6. Ask HCC to extend your week for a few months, I find them very accomidating.

7. Tuscany is one of their MOST popular resorts.


----------



## vineyarder

> Anyone seen any of the DHH properties in person? I have a weekend in October and would love to check out the Tahoe property but that is after the price increase.



I'm pretty sure that they (DHH) have a 'try before you buy' program, so if you ask, they may well let you join before the price increase, but contingent on liking the Tahoe property when you go there...  PE did that for me; let me join before a price increase, but with a clause inserted that I would immediately get a full refund if I wasn't happy with my first stay...


----------



## travelguy

Steamboat Bill said:


> NAL
> 
> You are the first person I have heard from with complaints about HCC and quite honestly, I am a little confused.
> 
> 1. HCC NEVER promised Tahoe to anyone ever! It is on the wish list.
> 
> 2. DHH is an interesting club, but is NEW and has NOT stood the test of time and the jury is still out on this club. I LOVE the fact that they have great yachts, but their business plan needs scrutiney.
> 
> 3. Only a handful of HCC properties can be considered small. Some are quite large. They have 30 to choose.
> 
> 4. If you joined HCC in January, you are only 9 nonths into the plan. Call Heath and tell him you want out and I am reasonably sure you can get a 100% refund. Use my name as a referral and I will try to get this for you if you want.
> 
> 5. How about Mexico in Ortober?
> 
> 6. Ask HCC to extend your week for a few months, I find them very accomidating.
> 
> 7. Tuscany is one of their MOST popular resorts.



NAL,

First, welcome to TUG.  Glad you found us.

I agree with Bill on all his points.  Call Heath and tell him what you need for the HCC membership to work for you OR tell him that the logistics of HCC simply are not a good fit for you.  I'm sure that they will make whatever accommodations you need or give you a refund.

Also, the last two HCC properties that I stayed in were stand-alone homes at 5,000 sq ft. and 2,500 sq. ft., hardly "smaller".  You might consider jumping to ER instead of DHH if you need larger homes.


----------



## Kagehitokiri

now im confused.. the only "complaints" i saw from NAL were regarding service (standards really depend on how youre used to traveling) and the supposed delay of a Tahoe property. (perhaps an overzealous rep?) they seemed fairly happy with HCC to me. OTOH, some of HCC's current properties certainly wouldnt be THAT far from SFO for a last minute trip.

anyway, welcome to the non-traditional forum NAL 

DHH does have a try before you buy - $1K per night for up to 7 nights, i believe at a single property. or $3K > $8K to try the yachts for a week, not including fuel. (nick said the yachts ARE available to try even though the website says they are not)

personally, im keeping my eye on DHH and 3 other clubs, and am not particularly interested in HCC.

IMHO one of the real advantages for DHH is _if_ you use the $300 space available nights.


----------



## NAL

Steamboat Bill,

1. You are right, HCC never promised Tahoe but they say that it was planned for April before I joined and when I checked back after I joined, for this ski season. Since they are not in contract on anything yet, it seems less and less likely that it will be this ski season. When I joined I was very concerned about not having anything close by since I can do only 1 or 2 longer vacations so was counting on a couple of weekends within driving distance.

2. Every club has been new at some point and I guess that is why they are initially cheap to join. At least with a deposit of only $25K per week, while not pocket change, it is not the end of the world if they couldn't pay you back. Not so for the clubs with deposits costing several hundred thousand. 

3. This is probably more of a personal issue in that the places that I want to go or have gone have been two bedrooms (Turks, Mammoth, La Costa, Tuscany). But you are correct in that they do have a variety and bigger places if those spots are where you want to go. That is part of why I liked them since I don't have kids now. And as we start to have a family (I'm a newlywed), the kid friendly places in the US may become more important for me. 

4. Good call. I'll let you know if I need some help on that  

5. October has a required trip to Australia for a family wedding and December is booked too. May try to get something in for November if possible, especially now that we are in the short term window and I don't have to go for 7 days.

6. Good call again.

7. Yes, Tuscany does looks lovely and seems to be fairly well booked in summer. I have a booking there for August next year. All I'm saying is that it would have been nice if they got a different location for the second place instead of a one bedroom in the same complex.

I think ideally I would like to keep both memberships but I don't know that I would use all the time and that my husband would like that much since he's not into travel as much as I am. And I really do like HCC but also like the lure of the yachts, cars, manor houses, etc. and the fact that they have a place within driving distance that *currently* has availability all ski season. If I lived in Colorado, we wouldn't even be having this discussion


----------



## Kagehitokiri

HCC property list >
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54953

DHH property list >
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=391972&postcount=111


----------



## LTTravel

Helium has an interesting story on Yacht fractionals and mentions Seanet. They have an 82 ft yacht (2005) for $4.395 million (not including tax), $4881 monthly operating cost, not including fuel or port charges. The 82 ft from Seanet looks nicer than DHH's 86 ft Mangusta (not that I know anything about yachts) but it makes DHH look even nicer. Oh, I saw a 107 ft Mangusta available in the French Riviera for $107,000 per week if anyone is interested.


----------



## Kagehitokiri

i think i saw ~$30K for DHH's, and nick said something like ~$35K.

it seems like the sailing yachts are nowhere near the same savings though. but there is still the $1000/wk F&B credit.


----------



## vineyarder

*Just Curious...*

So with a week to go before the price increase, has anyone here gone ahead and joined DHH?


----------



## travelguy

*Due Dilligence?*

More importantly, has anyone done any significant due diligence?  I don't believe I've seen anything other than the information available on the DHH web site and postings by Nick from DHH.  Has anyone received and reviewed the DHH financials and corporate package?


----------



## Kagehitokiri

i agree thats the real question - to confirm what nick posted here, and discuss anything else that he/website did not mention.

also, is anyone besides LTTravel and NAL even considering joining before increase? personally ill wait, if only for some more beachfront properties.


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

*New Members*

Hi All,

Sorry for not posting sooner ...

Yes we have had a significant amount of new members join in the last few weeks and some American members as well which is nice some from viewing this forum which is also great, so much so we have started to speed up our focus on Hawaii, St Martin & Miami , now that we are seeing a steady flow of US Members joining.

Nick


----------



## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sorry for not posting sooner ...
> 
> Yes we have had a significant amount of new members join in the last few weeks and some American members as well which is nice some from viewing this forum which is also great, so much so we have started to speed up our focus on Hawaii, St Martin & Miami , now that we are seeing a steady flow of US Members joining.
> 
> Nick



Your membership agreement does not have the new proposed rules in it. Will you be able to revise the agreement or add an addendum. The ability to bank and borrow a week, transfer membership, upgrade at the old fees within a year and other proposals  are important for me to join.


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

*Club Rules*

I can email you a copy of the new rules which are now complete which cover all of the new rules ...


----------



## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Sorry for not posting sooner ...
> 
> Yes we have had a significant amount of new members join in the last few weeks and some American members as well which is nice some from viewing this forum which is also great, so much so we have started to speed up our focus on Hawaii, St Martin & Miami , now that we are seeing a steady flow of US Members joining.
> 
> Nick



Anyway we can pay for any of the membership/ membership dues with a credit card?


----------



## Kagehitokiri

LTTravel, you got a copy of their materials?


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

*Payment etc*

You can pay ongoing annual dues by c/c but the first payment of Joining Deposit and Annual Dues needs to be wired to us.

We have just released our New Club Rules which can be emailed.


----------



## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> I can email you a copy of the new rules which are now complete which cover all of the new rules ...



I have a copy of the new rules. Everything that was discussed in the forum is now present in the new rules, except for one(Unless I am missing it) I thought you had decided that if we join by September 30, we can upgrade to a higher level within one year at the current price levels. I do not see that in the new rules. All the other principles; bank an borrow weeks, add associate members, are included. Great. Though it does say that you cannot transfer a membership, it allows you to have someone take your place in your membership for a transfer fee. These are great. I have looked it over twice but have not seen the 1 yr upgrade window, am I missing it?


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> I have a copy of the new rules. Everything that was discussed in the forum is now present in the new rules, except for one(Unless I am missing it) I thought you had decided that if we join by September 30, we can upgrade to a higher level within one year at the current price levels. I do not see that in the new rules. All the other principles; bank an borrow weeks, add associate members, are included. Great. Though it does say that you cannot transfer a membership, it allows you to have someone take your place in your membership for a transfer fee. These are great. I have looked it over twice but have not seen the 1 yr upgrade window, am I missing it?



No that is being done by way of a side letter ....as this only applies to people who join prior to the end of the month , we did not want it in the rules going forward. However it does apply to all Charter Members , and they will have 12 months from the date they join and pay to upgrade one time to which ever new level they would like.


----------



## LTTravel

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> No that is being done by way of a side letter ....as this only applies to people who join prior to the end of the month , we did not want it in the rules going forward. However it does apply to all Charter Members , and they will have 12 months from the date they join and pay to upgrade one time to which ever new level they would like.



Great. Now to send in my membership material without my wife's knowledge (Until I surprise her with the first trip- though maybe I'll invite some of these Tuggers to join me for a weekend trip to Beaver Creek, with six bedrooms, I could invite 5 of them)


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

LTTravel said:


> Great. Now to send in my membership material without my wife's knowledge (Until I surprise her with the first trip- though maybe I'll invite some of these Tuggers to join me for a weekend trip to Beaver Creek, with six bedrooms, I could invite 5 of them)



I am sure she wont complain when you surprise her with a holiday ....welcome aboard so to speak  

We spent last Christmas in Beaver and it was a blast ...there is still no bookings for that destination yet for the ski season so you could even go for Christmas ....


----------



## vineyarder

> Now to send in my membership material without my wife's knowledge (Until I surprise her with the first trip)



That's what I had planned to do when I joined HCC as a second DC, but then the paperwork required spouses signatures if married... ah, well; maybe I'll surprise her if I join a third!


----------



## NAL

OK, what are others thinking? Any takers on joining? I just started looking at this about a week ago and am really hesitant about joining without seeing a property in person. Unfortunately, that only gives me 5 more days and I am out of town for 4 of those. So unless I can drive to Tahoe tomorrow, I won't make the deadline and I've received no offers to do a try before you join extending the current deadline. Nick, you there ;-)

They have added the rescission period required by the DCA to the agreement which is good for 30 days. However, that becomes null and void once you make a booking so doesn't really help much.

I actually decided against Ultimate Resort after having visited their Tahoe property so I think it is important to take a trial run. I have to admit that the property had just come on line and they were still working out the kinks (example: the non-dedicated concierge showed up late to meet us and couldn't really help arrange babysitting). Also, I didn't like the location on a golf course and I thought the interior finishes were not even on par with what I've seen at some of the High Country properties I've visited. This was early days for UR and I'm sure a lot has changed since then (don't want to offend any UR members). 

I know it isn't really in the best interest for DCs to give a trial but rather to rope you into a membership. However, it probably isn't in their best interest to have members who are unhappy, especially with forums like this in existence. 

I too have the problem with the spousal approval as my husband isn't too keen on putting down any money on anything but since we are considering having kids soon, DCs seem ideal and I can even see my HCC membership becoming more valuable then. Unfortunately I don't think my husband will fall for the "surprise trip after I've joined without telling him" plan. Darn.

I like that DHH has a property within driving distance to my house and probably no one in the Bay Area right now so last minute opportunities would be good. 

I very much like the ability to add affiliates since I may not want to use more than one long term reservation but would like to have 60-90 days space available window vs. only 30 days for the one week plan. Trying to talk a friend into it but hasn't worked so far but great that I have a year to change that. The SA at $300 per day is key benefit, especially while the availability is good.


----------



## LTTravel

NAL said:


> I actually decided against Ultimate Resort after having visited their Tahoe property so I think it is important to take a trial run. I have to admit that the property had just come on line and they were still working out the kinks (example: the non-dedicated concierge showed up late to meet us and couldn't really help arrange babysitting). Also, I didn't like the location on a golf course and I thought the interior finishes were not even on par with what I've seen at some of the High Country properties I've visited. This was early days for UR and I'm sure a lot has changed since then (don't want to offend any UR members).
> 
> .



I am surprised that you did not like the UR property in Tahoe. I have not seen it but from the description and photos, it looks very nice, except that it is on a golf course rather than a ski slope or lakeside.

Ultimate Resort ELITE

5 bedrooms, 4 1/2 baths, sleeps 12; master bedroom with king bed, 2nd bedroom with king bed, 3rd bedroom with twin bunk-beds and 4th bedroom with two twins (convertible to king) 
5,000 sq ft 
Located on the 13th fairway of a scenic mountainside golf course, this stunning two-story residence offers breathtaking mountain and golf views from every room 
Large game room with foosball and pool table 
Large plasma screen and LCD televisions, DVD players, surround-sound audio system, pre-programmed iPod, video gaming systems 
Computers with high-speed Internet, Wi-fi throughout the home, fax machine 

I only know of one HCC home that sounds like that and that is the leased property in Breckenridge. I know this property was sold for about $2 million aover a year ago and fixed up and furnished. If you didn't like this property, you may be tough to please.

compared to the DHH home description:

Shoshone Court, Squaw Valley, CA 
This 3700 sq ft four bedroom and three bathroom home is located in Squaw Valley, a short distance from the resort village and ski lifts. The interior is absolutely stunning, from the floor to ceiling "honey onyx" master bathroom, to the detailed hand finished woodwork throughout the house. 

It boasts an enormous gourmet kitchen located within the modern log cabin style of this very comfortable home. 

On the second floor you will find three of the bedrooms, two of which can be configured as singles or doubles. 

On the ground floor there is a separate dining room and a spacious living area with a welcoming stone fireplace, gourmet kitchen, spacious master bedroom, laundry and access to the double garage.


----------



## NeilGoBlue

I've never visited UR's properties, but when I looked hard comparing property to property... I thought the FF&E (furniture, fixtures and equipment), and over all interior design was substantially inferior to other clubs in it's class.


----------



## LTTravel

NeilGoBlue said:


> I've never visited UR's properties, but when I looked hard comparing property to property... I thought the FF&E (furniture, fixtures and equipment), and over all interior design was substantially inferior to other clubs in it's class.



I think that if  you look at the original UR properties, for the $2million range, they were very nice. In fact, three of them were bumped up into UR elite after the buyout of Tanner and Haley. Looking at the UR Elite collection, I think that some of the Tanner and Haley Homes are very nice, but they were not well kept up during the bankruptcy proceedings so some were not redone or furnished well. After the buyout, UR set aside several million dollars to bring them up to par (new furniture, computers, etc) One of these are the homes that they have in Nevis. From what I have heard, these homes are excellent and are being upgraded prior to being released. They have homes at the Trump in NY and Abaco, which have the same furnishings as any of the homes there. They have excellent homes in Scottsdale and Park City, and Jackson Hole, etc. The homes in Cabo are in an excellent location, on a cliff, plus several homes in the Esperanza. They probably need a little touch up though, if it has not already been done. The PE Pinnacle homes will be a nice addition. However, I believe the city of Charleston is sueing PE to close down its home to avoid any other DC's from entering. I personally don't understand why they would have chosen Charleston as a location for only a handful of homes and it would probably be better if they could sell it and get a home in a more desireable location. Even so, it is very nicely appointed.


----------



## NeilGoBlue

LTTravel said:


> I think that if  you look at the original UR properties, for the $2million range, they were very nice. In fact, three of them were bumped up into UR elite after the buyout of Tanner and Haley. Looking at the UR Elite collection, I think that some of the Tanner and Haley Homes are very nice, but they were not well kept up during the bankruptcy proceedings so some were not redone or furnished well. After the buyout, UR set aside several million dollars to bring them up to par (new furniture, computers, etc) One of these are the homes that they have in Nevis. From what I have heard, these homes are excellent and are being upgraded prior to being released. They have homes at the Trump in NY and Abaco, which have the same furnishings as any of the homes there. They have excellent homes in Scottsdale and Park City, and Jackson Hole, etc. The homes in Cabo are in an excellent location, on a cliff, plus several homes in the Esperanza. They probably need a little touch up though, if it has not already been done. The PE Pinnacle homes will be a nice addition. However, I believe the city of Charleston is sueing PE to close down its home to avoid any other DC's from entering. I personally don't understand why they would have chosen Charleston as a location for only a handful of homes and it would probably be better if they could sell it and get a home in a more desireable location. Even so, it is very nicely appointed.



Most of the homes I was looking at were in the lower level, not the elite level.


----------



## NAL

I didn't really want to get into the specifics and I'm sure a lot has changed as I reiterate that I was one of the first people to use it. The place seemed like an older update when I was there. Kind of like an 80s/90s high end remodel of a 70s golf course home rather than a mountain home. Wireless music wasn't working nor were there video games onsite (again, understandable). But the late arrival of the concierge, groceries in tow, wasn't a good sign.

I was not comparing the house itself but the decorations were not as well thought out or as nice as many at some of the HCC properties (many still had Target or Ross tags on them). The carpet installation was poorly done and a couple of us puctured our feet on hidden tacks while walking barefoot. Again, I'm sure this has changed. I will grant that it is a really large property. My friends remarked that they would rather have something smaller and plusher. Actually, I really like the pictures of the UR non-Elite property which seems more appropriate to the mountain location and less dated. In their website, the first 4 interior pix are the property I stayed in and the log home is a different place. However, I still maintain that the location was not ideal being on a golf course and not that close to skiing. It just wasn't the kind of place that made sense for us. But remember this was pre-merger and a year ago so everything is different now. 

I actually really like the HCC properties I have been to (Turks and Caicos, La Costa, Mammoth) and don't compare the two clubs since one specializes in larger multi-million dollar properties and the other in value. I just thought it was interesting that the UR property didn't seem as luxe as it should be given the price point. 

Interesting to note that I was also one of the first people to stay at the HCC Turks property and there were some bugs but the place was really nicely furnished and comfortable (and no Target tags  ) and they even sent me an email to let me know what wouldn't be there by the time I arrived. When I recently stayed there a second time, it was even better. And the little details were great like having a first aid kit and snorkel sets. Oh, and a Vonage phone so you could call for free back to the US!

Looking at the pix, to me the DHH property seems very nice and more appropriate to a mountain home but I'd like to see it in person as pictures can be deceiving. But the location is great (for me) being very close to Squaw and Alpine, and the finishes appear to be more high-end IMHO.

As I'm sure several of you have been, I have been investigating the DC industry for quite some time now. I even considered joining My Global Playground as a charter member if any of you remember that one. Ended up with HCC mainly because I am interested in capital preservation for real estate investing. That is why DHH is appealing to me.


----------



## nick@ihug.co.nz

NAL said:


> OK, what are others thinking? Any takers on joining? I just started looking at this about a week ago and am really hesitant about joining without seeing a property in person. Unfortunately, that only gives me 5 more days and I am out of town for 4 of those. So unless I can drive to Tahoe tomorrow, I won't make the deadline and I've received no offers to do a try before you join extending the current deadline. Nick, you there ;-)
> 
> They have added the rescission period required by the DCA to the agreement which is good for 30 days. However, that becomes null and void once you make a booking so doesn't really help much.
> 
> I actually decided against Ultimate Resort after having visited their Tahoe property so I think it is important to take a trial run. I have to admit that the property had just come on line and they were still working out the kinks (example: the non-dedicated concierge showed up late to meet us and couldn't really help arrange babysitting). Also, I didn't like the location on a golf course and I thought the interior finishes were not even on par with what I've seen at some of the High Country properties I've visited. This was early days for UR and I'm sure a lot has changed since then (don't want to offend any UR members).
> 
> I know it isn't really in the best interest for DCs to give a trial but rather to rope you into a membership. However, it probably isn't in their best interest to have members who are unhappy, especially with forums like this in existence.
> 
> I too have the problem with the spousal approval as my husband isn't too keen on putting down any money on anything but since we are considering having kids soon, DCs seem ideal and I can even see my HCC membership becoming more valuable then. Unfortunately I don't think my husband will fall for the "surprise trip after I've joined without telling him" plan. Darn.
> 
> I like that DHH has a property within driving distance to my house and probably no one in the Bay Area right now so last minute opportunities would be good.
> 
> I very much like the ability to add affiliates since I may not want to use more than one long term reservation but would like to have 60-90 days space available window vs. only 30 days for the one week plan. Trying to talk a friend into it but hasn't worked so far but great that I have a year to change that. The SA at $300 per day is key benefit, especially while the availability is good.



I have spoken to Robert in LA about this today , and we have decide that it is important for you to be sure. So we will offer the following option:

- If you want to join now during the Charter Phase we will allow you a 100 % refund of your Membership Joining Deposit and a refund of any unused Membership days with no waiting in a queue, if you vacation at one of our properties within 90 days of joining and are not satisfied. After 90 days we will assume you are happy to continue either way if you have not asked to cancel.

We will also extend this offer to any of the Tugbbs members.

We don't want any unhappy Members, ever.

Cheers

Nick


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## nick@ihug.co.nz

*Tahoe Home*

Also if you really want to see the Tahoe home before joining, we are happy to make our Concierge "Kelly" available to show you the property sometime between now and the end of this Month as well ...


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## valhala

nick@ihug.co.nz said:


> Also if you really want to see the Tahoe home before joining, we are happy to make our Concierge "Kelly" available to show you the property sometime between now and the end of this Month as well ...




I too have been following this thread for a week now. I am considering HCC versus DHH. Very informative thread.
I was in Tahoe on the weekend and was compelled to visit the DHH Tahoe property in Squaw Valley.  It was a short distance to the ski lifts.  It was located in the midst of expensive houses in the interior of a semi private development.  There was al ot of construction vehicles iin surrounding homes as construction was still visible in neighboring homes.  Looks good from the outside.  To water lovers, it is about 20 - 25 minutes drive to North Shore Lake Tahoe.


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## Steamboat Bill

I am creating a new thread to focus on DHH only

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55624


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