# At Marriott Ko Olina, Just not the same as HCC



## steve b (Dec 19, 2007)

We are now into mid week at our Marriott Ko Olina unit, and although the units are large and nice, I must say it is not quite the same vacation experience as our destination club membership with HCC.  And not to sound like a snob, but this whole Marriott timeshare experience is just so commercial in nature, catering to the masses as if it's a once in a lifetime vacation experience.  You are bombarded with vendors trying to get you to go to a preview or sell you another Luau package.  By contrast with High Country Club you get a real knowledgeable person (Like Kristy) as your vaction concierge, who literally cares that you have a great vacation as opposed to Marriott's so called concierge who's apparent main function is to get you to another sales presentation.  Yes I understand that Marriott is a business, but frankly the whole thing seems a bit cheesy.  By contrast High Country Club is a much more organized high end vacation experience which in my opinion is worth more than 5 times the price of a Marriott timeshare.
Once again high praises to High Country Club.
steve b


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 19, 2007)

steve b said:


> By contrast High Country Club is a much more organized high end vacation experience which in my opinion is worth more than 5 times the price of a Marriott timeshare.



Fortunately, HCC is less than 5x the cost of a Marriott timeshare in Hawaii, in fact, I would argue, that the cost may even be LESS.

Do us a favor and take a "quick" tour of the sales center only to get prices. They will only hold you up for 10 minutes or so if you tell them you are NOT interested in a free gift and will not be buying today and only want a price sheet.


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## steve b (Dec 19, 2007)

Will report back from Ko Olina with the current price list Friday am Hawaii time.
steve b


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## travelguy (Dec 20, 2007)

*High Country Club vs. Timeshare*

This is a continuing problem for me.  I book a week at a High Country Club property and then the following week at a timeshare.  There is always a letdown when we get to the timeshare and an overwhelming sense of inferior everything (residence, furnishings, service, etc.).  I'm scheduled to do this HCC/Timeshare tandem two more times next year as I burn off my remaining exchange weeks and HGVC points.  I really need HCC to take all my timeshare weeks as a trade-in on an additional membership!!


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 20, 2007)

travelguy said:


> This is a continuing problem for me.  I book a week at a High Country Club property and then the following week at a timeshare.  There is always a letdown when we get to the timeshare and an overwhelming sense of inferior everything (residence, furnishings, service, etc.).  I'm scheduled to do this HCC/Timeshare tandem two more times next year as I burn off my remaining exchange weeks and HGVC points.  I really need HCC to take all my timeshare weeks as a trade-in on an additional membership!!



Perhaps the solution could be:

1. Visit the timeshare first, then you will be happy with the HCC upgrade later.
2. Give your timeshare weeks as presents to family/friends
3. Sell your Timeshares ASAP
4. Just suck it up and remember a day on vacation is usually better than a  day working.
5. Try to upgrade your timeshare weeks to only include top tiered resorts like the Four Seasons, etc.

Although I know 100%  what you are referring to , I don't thing the TUGers will give you much sympathy on this problem.


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## vivalour (Dec 20, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Although I know 100%  what you are referring to , I don't thing the TUGers will give you much sympathy on this problem.



You're right. Let's see, while TG has been reviewing beaches, I've spent my leisure time split between the gym (getting into shape to shovel snow), and, shovelling 3-5 feet of snow from:

1. the driveway 2. the front path and porch 3. the back patio and porch (as an escape route in case of insanity) 4. the street, where my neighbor's car got stuck, and 5. the street in front of my driveway so that dh and I don't get stuck. Then I dipped into my slush fund for $1,000 worth of Swedish winter tires and steel rims. 

Other than a single scarlet Cardinal, perched like a wildlife carving on my neighbor's white-topped cedar hedge, I have not seen any attractive birds on our property. My son noticed some tiny imprints that could be the tracks of baby rabbits, or mice, in the backyard snow. The snow itself is very lush and white, but not quite like the beach sand in T&C. 

Really happy I don't have TG's problem: I'm sure I'd be bored witless and morph into a jelly-like mass after 45 days in the likes of Maui and T&C.


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## travelguy (Dec 21, 2007)

Steam & Viv,

Wow.  I went back and looked at my post and realized that I was totally serious when I wrote about the hardships of upper-end timeshares.  Maybe I'm taking this uber-travel thing too seriously.  Obviously I'm too stressed out and it's time to lighten up and take a vacation.


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## travelguy (Dec 21, 2007)

vivalour said:


> Really happy I don't have TG's problem: I'm sure I'd be bored witless and morph into a jelly-like mass after 45 days in the likes of Maui and T&C.



Have you not seen the "gymrat" section of my reviews?


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## vivalour (Dec 21, 2007)

travelguy said:


> Maybe I'm taking this uber-travel thing too seriously.  Obviously I'm too stressed out and it's time to lighten up and take a vacation.



For sure. Just have some glogg and make merry in that beach chair.  

Noticed your comment about the gymrats -- we three will probably join the pack. Don't want to be rich, spoiled, lazy AND fat ....


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## pwrshift (Dec 21, 2007)

vivalour said:


> Don't want to be rich, spoiled, lazy AND fat ....


 
Now I know where I fit in ... I have a service do my snow (on occasion twice a day this year so far), another service do all my grass cutting and landscaping, and my unused dusty treadmill does nothing more than blink its light at me as a reminder it's there. Different strokes.

Other than a shocking lack of east coast AND beachfront locations, my beef with HCC is that many of their beach locations are considerably more than an elevator ride away (no stairs for me) and to feel it's better to drive to a number of nearby beaches than to have 'your own' beach ain't for me. There are many multi million dollar condos on either side of my Marriott BeachPlace timeshare and there are many dumpy TS facing the beach too. Each morning for my 4 weeks in a row in prime time booked 13 months ahead so I've never ever missed getting the same weeks year after year, I have my OJ, greasy bacon & eggs, coffee and read the WSJ watching the sun rise and the urban location awaken.

To hear TG say it's a 20 min walk to the beach and loads of stairs to climb isn't my idea of a beach location ... far from it. I'd just stay in the HCC small apartment and play the X-Box.  At least BeachPlace has a pool an elevator ride away ... and they'll even bring me drinks and snacks while I watch the bikinis walk by.

The comparison of furnishings is perhaps not fair .. HCC is 2 years old and their locations about the same. It will be interesting to see how they compare to TS in wear & tear in 10 years to level the playing field.

Brian


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## travelguy (Dec 21, 2007)

pwrshift said:


> To hear TG say it's a 20 min walk to the beach and loads of stairs to climb isn't my idea of a beach location ... far from it. I'd just stay in the HCC small apartment and play the X-Box.  At least BeachPlace has a pool an elevator ride away ... and they'll even bring me drinks and snacks while I watch the bikinis walk by.



ummm ... I said "about a 5-10 minute walk" and I was being kind to folks of all persuasion.  It's less for us gym rats.  The distance is about the same as the back buildings at any of Marriott's oceanfront Hilton Head Island locations.  And I included the steps specifically to alert those with disabilities that the entrance wasn't wheelchair accessible.  There are not "loads to climb" and it shouldn't be a problem for anyone else.

And, you're going to have to trust me on this, the bikinis walking and surfing in Wailea are better than BeachPlace.  Now SoBe, not so much.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 21, 2007)

pwrshift said:


> There are many multi million dollar condos on either side of my Marriott BeachPlace timeshare and there are many dumpy TS facing the beach too. Each morning for my 4 weeks in a row in prime time booked 13 months ahead so I've never ever missed getting the same weeks year after year, I have my OJ, greasy bacon & eggs, coffee and read the WSJ watching the sun rise and the urban location awaken.



I prefer my bacon crisp and I can attest that the Marriott BeachPlace is a good "value" as compared to the Exclusive Resorts property located in the St Regis about 100 yards away that is significantly more expensive and would be hard to book for 4 weeks during the spring.

Also, the HCC Turks and Caicos property is so close to the beach/ocean, I was able to get their wi-fi signal on my laptop while in a lounge chair on the beach.


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## steve b (Dec 21, 2007)

*Prices from Ko Olina Today*

Powershift, As a guy that owns many, Marriott, HCC, Hyatt, Starwood, Sunterra, and Raintree units.  HCC is the clear winner.  I have enjoyed your posts and I know you enjoy the value of a business class plane ticket acquired on Marriott Points, and the value of a lifetime elite Platinum membership acquired on American Airlines after the conversion of 2 million frequent flyer miles after claiming multiple air/hotel package rewards with Marriott, and when you add the accommodations at an HCC property acquired at a bargain price you then have it all. Save the Marriott units for air tickets.  As far as beach HCC properties look at the Turks and look at Playa Del Carmen,  Marriott has no properties that have any units that even come close to being that close to the water.  I prefer the more upscale atmosphere of a destination club like HCC.  And as to Hawaii:
Today from Ko Olina
OCEANVIEW ANNUAL 46,700
MOUNTAIN VIEW      36,900
steve b


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 21, 2007)

steve b said:


> Today from Ko Olina - OCEANVIEW ANNUAL 46,700



What is the annual dies so I can do a cost per night comparison to HCC?

Also, Marriott BeachPlace is a very nice timeshare property, but it is NOT on the beach.

You must take an elevator down and depending on what elevator you use, sometimes walk thru a closed parking garage (not very scenic), walk thru the shops of BeachPlace (get tempted to visit Hooters) that can be crowded at certain times and either take an underground tunned (walk down steps, walk under US1, and then walk up steps) or take a very BIG chance of crossing a potentially dangerous street to get to the beach.

Also, when the sun hits 2pm, the swimming pool at the Marriott is 100% in the shade from the 19 story Marriott tower.....bummer for people that sleep in.

I am NOT picking on Marriott BeachPlace as I think it is a great property, but it is NOT in the same league of any Destination Clubs, especially the HCC Turks & Caicos property.


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## steve b (Dec 21, 2007)

I believe it is 1400.00 per annual week for a 2 bedroom.
steve b


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 21, 2007)

Here is the Steamboat Bill’s “Cost per Night Calculation” price breakdown:
Cost per night = lost income opportunity (5%) of deposit + annual dues / nights

The following data is organized likes:
Membership type – membership deposit, annual dues, total nights, cost per night

Marriott Hawaii - 2 bedroom
$46,700 cost to buy, $1,400 annual dues, 7 nights
Cost per night = 2,335 + $1,400 = $3,735 / 7 nights = $533.57 per night


HCC Pricing - new December 1, 2007 prices
Companion - $25,000, $2,100, 7 nights, Cost per night = $478
Associate - $40,000, $4,300, 15 nights, Cost per night = $420
Affiliate - $50,000, $6,600, 25 nights, Cost per night = $364 
Private - $70,000, $9,000, 35 nights, Cost per night = $357 

Also, note that HCC has 3 bedroom units on average and some 4-5 bedroom units.

It looks like HCC still represents TREMENDOUS value over buying a Marriott Hawaii.

Please don't bother cluttering up this thread with statements like "only buy Marriott resale" as the majority of people actually buy directly from Marriott, not resale.


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## pwrshift (Dec 21, 2007)

Bill, excuse the 'clutter' but most buyers on TUG for whom you did the analysis would investigate all ways of purchasing and that would include resale.  This one, for example would change your figures quite a bit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Marriott-Ko-Oli...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Re: Beachplace ... I've never had a problem crossing that street to the beach, even with my granddaughter...to the point, I never use the tunnel anymore.  The walk to the beach is great fun ... have a beer 50 steps from the elevator, have an ice cream another 50 steps, have some wings another 50 steps at Hooters, and then go to the beach another 100 steps if you're still up to it.  Many is the time I didn't get to the beach after starting out for it!     It won't be long that a 5-10 minute walk from BeachPlace will take you to the dining rooms of St. Regis, Hilton, W, Trump and Atlantic (as well as other exisiting restaurants).  There's no need for a car anymore ... just brief walks to a gourmet feeding frenzy.

For those late risers, they should face the Intracoastal instead of the ocean ... and get the glorious afternoon sun on their balcony and virtually no party noise from the bars at night.  I prefer the noise and activity.

When the HOA wakes up and gives Beachplace owners the decor they want instead of artificially keeping the MF at the $1000 level (incl taxes) they could really put the 'wow' in ownership there.  Even so, there are very few timeshares that provide just 2 views without premium - oceanfront and/or intracoastal waterway.  BTW the pool is twice the size of the Atlantic's and about the same size as the St. Regis pool -- the idea I guess is the best beach in the world (Bluewave) is right there ... a few steps away.  To have that in an urban centre is quite unique for that price.

I prefer my bacon crisp too ... but the doc tells me it's still a lot of grease...and recommends celery instead without salt.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 21, 2007)

ok...I will entertain a resale purchase for $20,000

Marriott Hawaii - 2 bedroom
$20,000 cost to buy RESALE, $1,400 annual dues, 7 nights
Cost per night = $1,000 + $1,400 = $2,400 / 7 nights = $342.85 per night

My point about Marriott BeachPlace (and I really like that property) is that it is NOT truly beachfront like the HCC Turks & Caicos property where you literally walk out the back patio door and step into the sand.


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## Bourne (Dec 21, 2007)

Now that resale prices are fair game, can I include the price at which I bought into HCC. If one is smart enough to buy Marriott resale, they should have purchased HCC membership already.......for calculation purposes.... 

Cost per night = $267.


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## steve b (Dec 22, 2007)

*Bill your resale comparison is not quite right, and Marriott is not HCC*

The ebay ad that Powershift posted was for an every other year Mountain View here at Ko Olina, so there would not be 7 days annually as the calculation indicates, hence INCREASING the nightly costs.  We are all friends here on Tug, sharing tidbits of knowledge.  I have no financial interest in seeing other members join HCC and merely benefit by increasing the number of properties for all of us.  I have learned much from Powershifts posts on usage of Marriott rewards points, ect. and have merely wanted to reciprocate in sharing some pretty cool stuff with him and other tug members.  Powershift, it sounds like you really like your Florida Marriott property and that's great but I really think you would enjoy some other really upscale properties and much lower price points.  Business class travel on AA to the Turks is close and comfortable and the drinks are great with free travel courtesy of Marriott Rewards Points, but best part is when you awaken in your first floor Kick A.... Beachfront condo at the Villa Renassaince with that gorgeous carribean blue water right in your face, and you know it's all yours with nobody to bother you.  No "Owner Orientations, no sweepstakes, no cheesy free backpacks, no discount cards, just peace.  And this is why I'm a member.
steve b


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 22, 2007)

steve b said:


> The ebay ad that Powershift posted was for an every other year Mountain View here at Ko Olina, so there would not be 7 days annually as the calculation indicates, hence INCREASING the nightly costs.



Correction:

Marriott Hawaii - 2 bedroom EOY on eBay

$20,000 cost to buy BI-ANNUAL RESALE, $1,400 annual dues (I assume it is $700 per year), 7 nights EOY

Cost per night = ($1,000 + $1,000 because it is EOY) + $1,400 (I assume this is a EOY price, but could be wrong) = $3,400 / 7 nights EOY = $485.71 per night (this is still higher than any HCC membership cost).

Also HCC has a contracted CPI + 2-3% max raise of their annual dues and Marriott will rise their fees to whatever they feel like charging (MMC went up 15% in one year)

I am NOT trying to win any debate here, I just am trying to compare MY out of pocket "cost-per-night" if I buy a Marriott or if I join HCC.

There are two wildcards here:
1. Resale value of the Marriott
2. Immediate 20% loss of HCC membership fee

I tend NOT to include the widlcards into my calculations (some others will try to include them) but my reasons are that if I am happy with the purchase (like I am with my DVC) then there will be  no reason to sell them and I can keep them until I get a one-way ticket to the BIG "Destination Club in the Sky"


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