# London this December!



## suesam (Oct 27, 2009)

I have been so busy the past month I have not done my usual amount of preplanning for our trip to London in Dec. We have never been to Europe so need all available advice. I have read the posts on here over and over again. I have Rick Steves book, London and Frommers, London 2009. I am still confused. I would like to be as organized as humanly possible to make the trip as smooth as possible. So... do I get the Oyster Card in advance? We are staying at the Blades Hotel, Victoria Westminster. I found this hotel through Rick Steves website. Do I get theatre tickets in advance? Where do we want to have tea? 
What else do I need to plan before we arrive to make this an enjoyable, stressful trip?  I am feeling a little out of my league here.................

Sue


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## Conan (Oct 27, 2009)

suesam said:


> What else do I need to plan before we arrive to make this an enjoyable, stressful trip?


 
Probably you meant stress-free?
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Here's a very short list of my London favorites:

Transit - - Underground is best

Theatre - - if there's a show you feel you must see, order in advance; otherwise you can line up at the Leicester Square half-price booth (in the park, not one of the clip-joint storefronts).

Museums - - British Museum, National Gallery, maybe National Portrait Gallery, maybe Tate and/or Tate Modern (in different locations), maybe Victoria & Albert

Other sights - - Tower of London, lots of pubs, St. Paul's Cathedral, Westminster Abbey, maybe Churchill War Rooms

Try to avoid the tourist traps, e.g. Madame Tussauld, London Dungeon...

Shopping -- Harrods Food Hall, Fortnum & Mason etc.

Restaurants - - Ethnic offers best value, especially Indian, Chinese, etc.


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## Larry (Oct 27, 2009)

I am also interested in as much information regarding London as we are going Nov/December, for 10 days arriving, Thanksgiving day 11/26-December 6, 2009. Staying at Marriott for two nights near airport and Windsor Castle, then a week at Allen House. I have not made any other reservations for Oyster card, touring or Theater and thought we could do everything through concierge once we get there?????? 

Is there anything that would be better to get prior to our trip through the internet?


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## Luanne (Oct 27, 2009)

Dd went to the UK over her Spring break this year.  The only thing I remember she got ahead of time was a Britrail pass. She purchased the Oyster card when she got there.


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## nonutrix (Oct 27, 2009)

suesam said:


> I have been so busy the past month I have not done my usual amount of preplanning for our trip to London in Dec. We have never been to Europe so need all available advice. I have read the posts on here over and over again. I have Rick Steves book, London and Frommers, London 2009. I am still confused. I would like to be as organized as humanly possible to make the trip as smooth as possible. So... do I get the Oyster Card in advance? We are staying at the Blades Hotel, Victoria Westminster. I found this hotel through Rick Steves website. Do I get theatre tickets in advance? Where do we want to have tea?
> What else do I need to plan before we arrive to make this an enjoyable, stressful trip?  I am feeling a little out of my league here.................
> 
> Sue



Sue, 

It looks like you are off to a good start with your guidebooks.  Read Rick Steves thoroughly - his advice is excellent and he will steer you away from the tourist traps.  Pay attention to the days and times he tells you to visit the major sites, such as the Tower of London, it will save you a lot of time and crowds.  

Oyster card - if there is anyway you can get one in advance, do it.  It will be one less hassle you will have to deal with when you get there.  However, they can be purchased at the airports or any tube station.  Which airport are you arriving at?  This is important to determine the best way to get into London from the airport.

London Pass - I like to get this one.  Go to the LondonTown.com website and have a look at it.  LondonTown.com is offering the cheapest price for a London Pass that I have found.  (I'm also researching London for a trip in Dec.)  See if you think you would use it enough.  It is very helpful for the major sites because you can jump the ticket lines that can be very long.  Remember that if you are in London over Christmas almost all of the sites are closed Dec. 24, 25, and 26.  Since the London Pass is for consecutive days use, manage your pass so that it is not in force over those dates.  

I like to buy my show tickets in advance so that I can get the seats I want.  I use theatremonkey.com to check out the shows, seat plans, and venues. When I decide what I want to see, I go to the website of the venue and purchase the tickets "will call" to save a little money. I don't want to take a chance on a nosebleed seat, or one behind a beam.  If it is not important what you see or where you sit, then wait until you get there and get your tickets in the Leister(sp) Square ticket office or through your hotel concierge.  

How long will you be in London, and what are your dates...I ask this because London from Dec. 24 until Dec. 27 is dead, dead, dead.  I don't say not to be there, but you have to plan in advance for there being no public transportation, AND most things are closed, including restaurants (except for those who have booked ahead).

This is all I can think of at the moment.  Hope this helps!

nonutrix


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## suesam (Oct 27, 2009)

I certainly did mean stress free!!! 
Thank you all for your responses. We will be in London the 5th through the 12th of December.  Main reason we are traveling this time of year is because we love to see all of the Christmas decorations. 

I really am quite picky about my theater seats, etc. so I think I need to order in advance. I have been researching the internet ALL afternoon and am actually more confused about theater than I was before! So many awesome options! How do we decide? Has anyone seen We Will Rock You? Or Billy Elliott? I am thinking maybe we could squeeze in 3 shows. I love musicals.  I have seen Wicked twice and would love to see it again but the problem is I want to see everything! Anyone have any other suggestions?

I am thinking the London Pass is a good idea. 

I think I will order my Oyster pass in advance as well. 
Keep up the suggestions! I really appreciate it!


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## Conan (Oct 27, 2009)

I don't think I would buy the London Pass, but if I did (and leaving aside the out-of-town attractions) I'd use it for:
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Tower of London

Kensington Palace

Churchill Museum and Cabinet War Rooms

St. Paul's Cathedral

Courtauld Gallery

Banqueting House

Tate Britain

Tate Modern


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## Luanne (Oct 27, 2009)

suesam said:


> Or Billy Elliott?



Dd saw Billy Elliott and loved it.  I believe she got the tickets before she went over.  She got them online, and I can't remember where.


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## x3 skier (Oct 27, 2009)

*Trip Advisor London Forum is a good source*

Two Shows I really liked on my last visit a couple of weeks ago were Oliver and The 39 Steps.

You can get good deals on www.lastminute.com. UK Site including theater, dining and others. If you don't have specific show in mind, they have many tickets available.

One thing to also note is you can get a paper Travel Card (instead of an Oyster Card) at any rail station that also gives you many two for one deals. There are many threads on Trip Advisor describing the differences. The Oyster is more handy but if you check out the other version of the travel card issued by the Railroads, it can help make a choice.

Finally, one very good way to see London is by walking tours from London Walks, www.walks.com.

Cheers


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## DeniseM (Oct 27, 2009)

I *highly* recommend London Walks, too. www.walks.com  We did several of their city walks and an all day tour to Salisbury and Stongehenge with them.  The basic city walks are £7 and the all day tours are about £12 + transportation, which is discounted.  All tours meet at the exit to public transportation - we took the train (with the group) to Salisbury and Stonehenge - this was a fantastic trip!

If you go to their website you can request a free brochure which lists tons of tours.  Or you can get the info. on their website.  If you are going to do several tours, get their discount card (Walkabout card) when you pay for the first tour, for a nice discount on all their tours.  I loved the London Walk tours, because they are very reasonably priced, and it was an easy way to see a lot in a short time, without having to worry about transportation or getting lost.

Here are DD and I on the Stonehenge London Walk:


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## suesam (Oct 27, 2009)

We are really interested in some easy day trips but are wondering if it will be fun since it will be in December, chilly and the days will be short? 
I definitely want to look into the London walks. Those look very interesting. 

Sue


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## nonutrix (Oct 27, 2009)

Sue,

Look at this article on Frommer's website with some good advice on theatre tickets in London.

http://www.frommers.com/articles/6280.html#ixzz0UxXc13Rf

nonutrix


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## MULTIZ321 (Oct 27, 2009)

nonutrix said:


> Sue,
> 
> Look at this article on Frommer's website with some good advice on theatre tickets in London.
> 
> ...



Nonutrix,

Thanks for the link. 


Richard


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## Carolinian (Oct 28, 2009)

There are also some easy out of town trips you should do by rail.  The top two would be Windsor Castle and Hampton Court Palace.  A couple that are a bit longer but definitely doable as day trips are Bath and the historic ships at Portsmouth, which includes the wreck of Henry VIII's HMS Mary Rose, the well preserved HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship at Trafalgar, and the restored HMS Warrior, launched in 1860 and the UK's first ironclad.

The one big drawback of the time of year you are going is that it gets dark awful early in the afternoon that time of year in the UK.


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## suesam (Oct 28, 2009)

The Frommer's link is great! Thanks so much for everyone's help! I am starting to get my head wrapped around this.......


Sue


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## x3 skier (Oct 28, 2009)

Larry said:


> A week at Allen House. I have not made any other reservations for Oyster card, touring or Theater and thought we could do everything through concierge once we get there??????
> 
> Is there anything that would be better to get prior to our trip through the internet?



I seldom get anything before leaving since it is easy to get a Rail or Oyster Travel Card. I also have always booked show tickets using either my or the accommodation's computer when I got to London. One thing I have done is book a Tour occasionally at Viator before departure. Never used a Concierge but I have simple tastes. 

Since you are staying at The Allen House, the No. 9 Bus travels down High Street toward the major attractions Like Royal Albert Hall, near the V&A, Green and Hyde Parks, through Piccadilly Circus, Trafalgar Square, near Covent Garden and others. The No. 10 also travels right past you, turns at Wellington's Arch onto Park Lane and then goes down Oxford Street for Shopping. The Stop is about a half a block from the Junction of Allen Street and High Street. Just turn left at the Starbucks on High Street.

I usually take the bus unless I am in a hurry or have a great distance to cover, then its the Tube. The Bus allows you to see a great deal more than tunnels and stations on the Tube. 

Cheers and say high to the Front Office Ladies for me (Mr. Abell to them,  )


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## Larry (Oct 28, 2009)

*Broadway Box- Good deal?*



nonutrix said:


> Sue,
> 
> Look at this article on Frommer's website with some good advice on theatre tickets in London.
> 
> ...



Thanks very good article. The one that I have been considering is here http://www.broadwaybox.com/london

The deals for show and dinner seem very good. Anyone use this and are the restaurants OK for a quick meal before the theater? We are considering seeing Jersey Boys and one other musical while in London and will probabley use the combo discount with dinner 60 pounds per person for two tickets and dinner, two course meal looks like a pretty good deal  ??????


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## nonutrix (Oct 28, 2009)

Sue,

When deciding whether or not you plan to leave London for day trips, it will be important to keep in mind that the days in Dec. are very, very short (think dusk at 3:30)!  Personally, even though I've been to London many times, I've never found a shortage of things to do.  I guess the main consideration is: Will be this be your only trip ever to England, or is the first of several?  If the answer is the former then research carefully and go for broke and maybe even consider a day trip to Paris.  If the answer is the latter, then stay in London and savor, knowing that you will not possibly be able to taste everything London has to offer in only a week!    

Reasonable, close-in day trips you might want to consider are Windsor/Windsor Castle, Hampton Court, or Greenwich (the London Pass will get you in all of the places where there is a charge).  These are easily manageable on the outskirts of central London type trips and will take up most if not all of your daylight.  The towns of Windsor and Greenwich will give you a good idea of what an English town is like, and are great places to explore on their own without the accompanying sites (think pubs and cobblestone streets).

I'll second someone else's mention of the buses.  They are very easy to use, the oyster card will work on them, they are best for general orientation to the city, and it is the best way to see the lights in the main shopping districts.  Don't miss going to at least one Christmas Market - look at LondonTown.com for locations.  Also, check out the ice- skating even, if it is only to look.  They are all over town:  Somerset House, Hyde Park Christmas Market, the Natural History Museum to name a few.

BTW, if you are arriving at Heathrow, you can use your oyster card for the tube ride into London - it is the cheapest way to get into town.  Be sure to bring roller luggage to make this possible.

Hope this helps!

nonutrix


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## x3 skier (Oct 28, 2009)

Larry said:


> Thanks very good article. The one that I have been considering is here http://www.broadwaybox.com/london
> 
> The deals for show and dinner seem very good. Anyone use this and are the restaurants OK for a quick meal before the theater? We are considering seeing Jersey Boys and one other musical while in London and will probabley use the combo discount with dinner 60 pounds per person for two tickets and dinner, two course meal looks like a pretty good deal  ??????



I would compare the prices and selection to www.lastminute.com (the UK version). I have done both just tickets and combo of tickets + pre-dinner meal deals and have been happy both ways. Most restaurants in the theater (and other) districts have a set price pre-theater menu. I prefer to walk about or use the last minute site to find what suits us the day before the show.

We saw Jersey Boys in London last year and it was great!

Cheers


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## Larry (Oct 28, 2009)

x3 skier said:


> I would compare the prices and selection to www.lastminute.com (the UK version). I have done both just tickets and combo of tickets + pre-dinner meal deals and have been happy both ways. Most restaurants in the theater (and other) districts have a set price pre-theater menu. I prefer to walk about or use the last minute site to find what suits us the day before the show.
> 
> We saw Jersey Boys in London last year and it was great!
> 
> Cheers



Thanks one more question if I get tickets now will I have a better chance of getting better seats than waiting for last minute tickets?


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## x3 skier (Oct 28, 2009)

Larry said:


> Thanks one more question if I get tickets now will I have a better chance of getting better seats than waiting for last minute tickets?



Unless a show is occasionally sold out leading to a situation where all that is left is very expensive or in nose bleed territory, I have been happy with my tickets even getting them the day before. In fact, when I got the tickets for Jersey Boys either two or three days before the show, I actually was upgraded for free from the Dress Circle (Balcony) to the Stalls (Main Floor) when I picked the tickets up at the Theater.:whoopie: 

Cheers


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## eal (Oct 28, 2009)

x3 skier said:


> I usually take the bus unless I am in a hurry or have a great distance to cover, then its the Tube. The Bus allows you to see a great deal more than tunnels and stations on the Tube.



Ditto regarding the advantage of the bus over the tube in London


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## Krystyna (Oct 29, 2009)

*theatre/musicals/London*

I sent you a PM but I also agree with another Tugger, the play 39 Steps is excellent. It's on at the Criterion Theatre.  39 Steps is John Buchan's classic novel - the acting is superb.  Try to see "Carousel" by Rodgers and Hammerstein at the Savoy Theatre - also well done. 
Krystyna/Richard/..Canada


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## nonutrix (Oct 29, 2009)

We saw 39 Steps last Thanksgiving and loved it!  We booked in advance through the London Pass website and got our tickets for half-off.  Kinda the best of both worlds - we got cheap tickets and got to pick our seats.  Lots of shows are offering good prices in advance for the days you will be in London.  Unfortunately, the discounts are not good late in December.

nonutrix


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## suesam (Oct 30, 2009)

You have all been so incredibly helpful. I have researched and researched for two afternoons now.... going to the websites you posted etc. I think I am ready to order a few tickets and the Oyster pass. I am feeling much more confident. 

Has anyone gone to any of the Castles at Christmas? I saw the Leeds castle has a night time Christmas tour that looks kind of neat. 

The food prices are really amazing. My diet may go well in London! That would be a really good thing!! 

Sue


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## Carolinian (Oct 30, 2009)

If any of your party is interested in naval history, I would highly recommend taking the train to Portsmouth to see the Historic Ships.  The entrance is close to the train station, and you can easily see the closest of the ships, _HMS Warrior_ tied up to a dock, from the station itself.

The ships are:

_HMS Mary Rose_, built as the flagship of Henry VIII's navy, she was topheavy and capsized within sight of land on her maiden voyage as she sailed off to fight the French, much like the _Vasa_ in Stockholm, within sight of the king and officials which had just given her a send off.  The very substantial remains of the ship are under conservation and were still being constantly sprayed with preservatives when I was there and are enclosed in a special building.

_HMS Victory_, a ship of the line of the first rate which was Lord Nelson's flagship at the Battle of Trafalgar in the Napoleanic Wars, one of the most decisive naval battles of all time.  She sits is a drydock but very well preserved.  She is still carried on the active duty rolls of the Royal Navy.  The guided tour is fascinating.

_HMS Warrior_ launched in 1860 as the Royal Navy's first ironclad, she far surpasses the _Monitor_ and _Virginia_ which were launched almost two years later.  Unlike the American pair, she was a blue water ironclad capable of projecting British power anywhere in the world, and at the time was the longest, fastest, and most powerfully armed warship afloat.  Unlike the oldfashioned muzzle loading smoothbore guns of Monitor, she was armed with rifled breechloaders.  She was also the first warship built with individual watertight compartments to prevent sinking if her hull was breached.  After being found in a secondary British harbor being used as a fuel hulk some years ago, she underwent what is probably the most comprehensive ship restoration ever undertaken and is now back like she was when she first went into service.  She is the only one of the ships which is actually in the water.  You are free to explore _HMS Warrior_ on your own.


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## Pompey Family (Nov 3, 2009)

Carolinian said:


> If any of your party is interested in naval history, I would highly recommend taking the train to Portsmouth to see the Historic Ships.  The entrance is close to the train station, and you can easily see the closest of the ships, _HMS Warrior_ tied up to a dock, from the station itself.
> 
> The ships are:
> 
> _HMS Mary Rose_, built as the flagship of Henry VIII's navy, she was topheavy and capsized within sight of land on her maiden voyage as she sailed off to fight the French, much like the _Vasa_ in Stockholm, within sight of the king and officials which had just given her a send off.  The very substantial remains of the ship are under conservation and were still being constantly sprayed with preservatives when I was there and are enclosed in a special building.



The Mary Rose is now closed due to a new building being built to re-house it.  When it's completed it will be on display without constantly being sprayed with water.  In my opinion it was always the most disappointing of all the ships as there was little to see and the glass in the viewing galley was always dirty.  The Victory is the most impressive and you can go onboard.

The train to the dockyard takes around an hour from London Waterloo and the station is literally a five minute stroll from the dockyard entrance.  You can then pop next door to Gunwharf Quays http://www.gunwharf-quays.com/ for some discount shopping, lunch and the Spinnaker Tower.

London can be too much after a while so it's nice to get away to the seaside for some clean air and space.


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## nonutrix (Nov 3, 2009)

While I have never been to Leeds at Christmas, I have taken several castle and country house night Christmas tours in England.  They were all wonderful!  I'm thinking that Leeds will be good as well.

nonutrix


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## tlwmkw (Nov 3, 2009)

We went to the Gunwharf Quays also and enjoyed it very much.  Lots of nice restaurants there and shopping if you are interested in that.  There is also a Charles Dickens birthplace museum quite close by that may interest you.

tlwmkw


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## x3 skier (Nov 3, 2009)

nonutrix said:


> While I have never been to Leeds at Christmas, I have taken several castle and country house night Christmas tours in England.  They were all wonderful!  I'm thinking that Leeds will be good as well.
> 
> nonutrix



If you want to combine a POSH trip with a castle visit, check out the Orient Express Day trips from London. We have done two of them, one to Warwick Castle and one to Folkestone. http://www.orient-express.com/web/uktr/journey_types.jsp

Cheers


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## dmorea (Nov 3, 2009)

*London Walks*



DeniseM said:


> I *highly* recommend London Walks, too. www.walks.com  We did several of their city walks and an all day tour to Salisbury and Stongehenge with them.  The basic city walks are £7 and the all day tours are about £12 + transportation, which is discounted.  All tours meet at the exit to public transportation - we took the train (with the group) to Salisbury and Stonehenge - this was a fantastic trip!
> 
> If you go to their website you can request a free brochure which lists tons of tours.  Or you can get the info. on their website.  If you are going to do several tours, get their discount card (Walkabout card) when you pay for the first tour, for a nice discount on all their tours.  I loved the London Walk tours, because they are very reasonably priced, and it was an easy way to see a lot in a short time, without having to worry about transportation or getting lost.
> 
> ...


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