# 2 interesting things in latest Travel & Leisure



## Kagehitokiri (Aug 15, 2007)

Tides South Beach condohotel owners will receive 70% of rental income. 
(Usually 40-50% from what I've seen)

Fairfax South Beach 1/4 fractions start at $250K.

Seems like fairly aggressive marketing to me, wonder if there might be more properties, even if just in the South Beach market, following suit.



The RC SOBE's new condohotel pricing I mentioned in the potential HCC destinations thread seems just as good.


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## travelguy (Aug 15, 2007)

Kagehitokiri said:


> Tides South Beach condohotel owners will receive 70% of rental income.
> (Usually 40-50% from what I've seen)
> 
> Fairfax South Beach 1/4 fractions start at $250K.
> ...



Fairly aggressive pricing for now; will probably go lower as the market continues to implode.

The Tides property has some troubles and may not be a good purchase.  It's the typical "Landmark" property that has a horrible reputation and reviews and is considered way overpriced by travelers in the know.  It's time as a place "to be seen" is over.  It's also an art-deco building that requires a phenomenal amount of maintenance.  However, the location is one of the best in SoBe!


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## Steamboat Bill (Aug 19, 2007)

I stayed at the Tides way back in 2002 and it was awesome, but minimalistic. I am sure the buy-it-now prices are still outrageous, but the 70% revenue is the highest I have ever seen for a hotel-condo. Finally someone is breaking the 50% barrier.


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## TomCayman (Aug 31, 2007)

Umm... prices from $189k for a quarter share, 75% income to owners... who said Cayman was expensive


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## pwrshift (Sep 15, 2007)

While I've never seen a condo-hotel payout as low as 40%, apparently Trump Fort Lauderdale (next to Atlantic) is 70% too...and they managed to get the city fathers to permit their owners to stay all year if they chose to do so...reversing the decision they put in to limit Condo-Hotel owners to something like 21 days a year so they would bring in lots of tourists.   

Trump apparently said he wouldn't build otherwise and they caved in wanting The Donald in Lauderdale. Don't know whether the change was passed on to those who purchased condo-hotels in Hilton and W. Starwood Atlantic was the first and the restrictions were put in after.

Brian


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 15, 2007)

ive never seen a condohotel limit as low as 21 days.. cant imagine it would be very smart.

interesting trump is going that high. 

there are a number ive seen at 40% IIRC, also banyan tree residences for example offer 6% guaranteed/fixed for a couple years, or 30% of rental - in their case theyre all limited to 60 days.


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## pwrshift (Sep 15, 2007)

The JW Marriott going in 2 hours north of Toronto is up to 55% depending on the amount of time you put into the rental loop.  If owners take the full 9 weeks a year allowance at this one, the percent is lower.  This is an interesting situation too, however as it is a rental pool for owners -- you don't just make rental income if your own suite rents, you make it on the total rental pool even if your suite isn't rented.  The buy in for a studio is $308k Cdn.  It opens next year.

Brian

www.redleavesmuskoka.com


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## Larry (Sep 16, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I stayed at the Tides way back in 2002 and it was awesome, but minimalistic. I am sure the buy-it-now prices are still outrageous, but the 70% revenue is the highest I have ever seen for a hotel-condo. Finally someone is breaking the 50% barrier.




OK for now but what's to stop them from changing the formula once they are sold out and going to 50-50% split like other condo hotels???? Sorry but I just don't trust developers and their marketing schemes when they are having trouble selling.


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## Kagehitokiri (Sep 16, 2007)

if they had the ability - it would be in the contract.


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## GregGH (Jun 20, 2008)

*update on condo hotels?*

bump to thread --

I searched forum and this was only condo-hotel thread? -so I thought I would show this link .... from Sherpa report on unhappy ( and now law suits flying ) owners

http://www.sherpareport.com/prc/condo-hotel-owners-uproar.html

They site three papers = the Palm Beach, Las Vegas & Wall Street Journal (links in Sherpa )  ... the last paragraph in the WSJ cites a multiple unit owner as saying his value is 40% of original for one property ... 

Have we seen enough price decline in re-sales to smell like a good value yet?

Has anyone seen a good way to search MLS or ??? for just condo-hotels??  Or Fractionals for that matter?

Regards

Greg


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## vivalour (Jun 20, 2008)

GregGH said:


> bump to thread --
> 
> I searched forum and this was only condo-hotel thread? -so I thought I would show this link .... from Sherpa report on unhappy ( and now law suits flying ) owners
> 
> ...



You could google "fractionals for sale". I did come across one site of listings, in Mexico mainly, but did not bookmark it.

What do you consider a "good value"? Is this for your own use as a vacation property -- or are you looking for an investment? 

I have done some superficial research and come to the conclusion that the only "safe" buys in fractionals and condo/hotels that have some hope of holding value are five-star luxury developments by brands like Ritz and Four Seasons -- in top destinations like New York, for instance -- which have a steady, well-heeled clientele.  Then you are talking very major $$ for both purchase and annual fees. 

As well, there's is no guarantee of rental income and/or "profit".  As the WSJ article points out, markets like Vegas and Florida have been overbuilt and are glutted with condo/hotels. So the purchasers are now crying foul because they fell for the developer's sales pitch. 

Maybe there are distress sales by owners, but I couldn't find any organized listing service as such (maybe a good business idea, though).


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## pwrshift (Jun 20, 2008)

Here are a few:

http://www.condohotels.com/

http://www.condohotelcenter.com/

http://www.andyweiser.com/newcon/il_lugano.htm

http://www.gvshp.org/trump.htm

http://www.andyweiser.com/newcon/w/W_Ft_Lauderdale_aerial-photos.htm


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