# Is One's Credit Rating Affected by Defaulting on a Mexican Timeshare Purchase?



## Karen G

The standard response to people who inquire about defaulting on a Mexican timeshare purchase is that it will affect one's credit rating.  Does anyone have any real actual experience of that happening?  Has anyone simply stopped paying either their maintenance fees (if their timeshare is already paid for) or stopped making payments on a loan for the purchase of the timeshare?  What happened?


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## Passepartout

That would be great info to have, but may be difficult to obtain. The vast majority of folks who default are first time buyers, and after the default they have no reason to hang around TUG.

Jim


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## oldbuyer

Karen, I have not had personal experience with a credit default but have talked to the VLO at Cabo Villas several times and asked what do they do. He said it's not worth chasing someone for one maintenance fee on a fully paid contract and CV offers a turn back option on fully paid contracts equal to a transfer fee (reasonable). They then take back all rights to the contract and can either resell the inventory or keep it as hotel inventory.

IF the contract is not paid in full, CV turns it over to a collection company and they can do whatever they want to do to try and collect the remaining unpaid balance. He contends the contract obligation is enforceable even though it is a RTU and has no equity. He said that they get 50 cents on the dollar but I have no knowledge if that is true.

I turned in two CV contracts for the cost of $100ea this winter instead of giving them away as it was better for me to know it was properly disposed of (toxic waste) that to risk the new owner did not execute the transfer.

Some of the other Cabo resorts also have "surrender options".


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## easyrider

There is no way for the Mexican timeshare rtu contract to be enforced in the USA. A person could just stop making payments and I doubt the resort would spend any time on the mater whether the contract obligations are paid or not. If a buyer gave a down payment, which is often the case, to get the down payment back after the rescission period has ended, could require a Mexican Court decision.

So the buyer from the USA can sue the Mexican Resort in Mexico but the Mexican Resort can not sue the American buyer in the USA to get a judgement without jumping through many hoops. If the Mexican Resort attempts to collect without a proper judgement they would be in violation of the USA's Federal Laws regarding collections.   

https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...ernl-judicial-asst/Enforcement-of-Judges.html



> *General*
> There is no bilateral treaty or multilateral convention in force between the United States and any other country on reciprocal recognition and enforcement of judgments



Bill


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## pittle

We have one that we quit paying on 2 years ago.  We had gone in November 2015 and the resort was going downhill and still was not completed.  They raised the MF by $200 for 2016 and we chose not to pay them - they were going to be higher than our Buganvilias Sky Suite that has tons of amenities.  In January 2017 we got an email that asked if we were still part of the _______ family and I responded that because they had not kept up their end to have a nice resort, we did not want to go there.  He responded - thank you for your answer, sorry you were disappointed we hate to see you go.  We did not get a MF notice this year.  

We went there 6 times and each year we could see that they were not keeping it up.  When new, the units were totally awesome, but wear and tear and deferred maintenance kept us from enjoying our visit. Things like only two chaise loungers at the rooftop pool, and one was broken is really irritating! I understand that they are converting all but 3 units to full ownership condos now and save 2 for the few timeshare owners who are still hanging in there.


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## oldxr

If they got a down payment or a payment in full they still got some money .If somebody quits paying the maintenance fee on a fully paid for unit they will just sell it again .But the company that handles the maintenance fees for my timeshare is also a collection agency here in the states .More than likely would show up on a credit report if I quit paying .Last 2 years I have rented it out to friends to cover the maintenance fee.


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## easyrider

oldxr said:


> If they got a down payment or a payment in full they still got some money .If somebody quits paying the maintenance fee on a fully paid for unit they will just sell it again .But the company that handles the maintenance fees for my timeshare is also a collection agency here in the states .More than likely would show up on a credit report if I quit paying .Last 2 years I have rented it out to friends to cover the maintenance fee.



There are no Federal Laws regarding enforcement of judgments from foreign countries. Any attempt to get around this to collect would likely be in violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because the foreign company would need a judgement from a US Court to attempt collection. Without a court judgement from a court in the USA there is no way the foreign company can report you to the Credit Reporting Companies to tarnish your credit report.

Bill


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## oldbuyer

easyrider said:


> There are no Federal Laws regarding enforcement of judgments from foreign countries. Any attempt to get around this to collect would likely be in violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because the foreign company would need a judgement from a US Court to attempt collection. Without a court judgement from a court in the USA there is no way the foreign company can report you to the Credit Reporting Companies to tarnish your credit report.
> 
> Bill


Many/most Mexican timeshares collect their MF and installment financing debt through US companies in CA and AZ.(PBS, Playa Grande,Hacienda Encantada, Cabo Villas)


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## easyrider

oldbuyer said:


> Many/most Mexican timeshares collect their MF and installment financing debt through US companies in CA and AZ.(PBS, Playa Grande,Hacienda Encantada, Cabo Villas)



Yes, I know this. I use resortcom.com to pay my MF for my Mexican timeshares. What matters is "where" the product was bought. If you bought a Mexican timeshare while in the USA then that company would be doing regular business in the USA and could easily get a judgement. Even so, that doesn't require the debtor to actually pay.

If you buy a product in Mexico and quit paying the company that owns that product, that company can not force a judgement in the USA. If they can't get a judgement then they can't get a collection company to call you or hit your credit report with a derogatory remark because they need the judgement to get a collection order. 

Bill


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## Jim in Cancun

The simple answer is "YES."
Of course it depends on the individual resort and its policies but, as mentioned, the U.S. collection companis WILL report you to the credit bureau.


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## easyrider

Jim in Cancun said:


> The simple answer is "YES."
> Of course it depends on the individual resort and its policies but, as mentioned, the U.S. collection companis WILL report you to the credit bureau.




How exactly can a Mexican company, doing business in Mexico, report you to an organization that they do not belong to ? The only companies in Mexico that can report anything to a US credit agency are those based in the USA. 

The process is the company in the USA would need to sue the debtor in the USA to get a judgement to turn you into collection. If this happens then it would be on a persons credit report. 

A company from a foreign country can not enforce a contract in the USA with out jumping through many hoops. Creditors that can report your credit have gone through an application process, pay a membership fee and buy software that allows them to obtain and send reports. Part of the application process is to have a representative from the credit bureau to do an onsite inspection. None of the credit bureaus in the USA will send a representative to a foreign country. This actually means that no foreign business can report to the credit bureaus in the USA without having their primary business that actually sells things in the USA. 

The simple answer is "no".

Bill


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## buzglyd

You do not need a judgement to report to a credit reporting agency. 

You just need verification of debt.


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## davidvel

easyrider said:


> How exactly can a Mexican company, doing business in Mexico, report you to an organization that they do not belong to ? The only companies in Mexico that can report anything to a US credit agency are those based in the USA.
> 
> The process is the company in the USA would need to sue the debtor in the USA to get a judgement to turn you into collection. If this happens then it would be on a persons credit report.
> 
> A company from a foreign country can not enforce a contract in the USA with out jumping through many hoops. Creditors that can report your credit have gone through an application process, pay a membership fee and buy software that allows them to obtain and send reports. Part of the application process is to have a representative from the credit bureau to do an onsite inspection. None of the credit bureaus in the USA will send a representative to a foreign country. This actually means that no foreign business can report to the credit bureaus in the USA without having their primary business that actually sells things in the USA.
> 
> The simple answer is "no".
> 
> Bill


Why do you keep saying you need a judgment to get a hit on your credit report. So if I pay my mortgage late every month (or stop) paying, this won't show up on my credit report until they sue and get a judgment? Of course it will. 

I don't know the answer to the OP's question, or the other jurisdictional issues you raise, but clearly you don't need a judgment to ding a credit report.


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## easyrider

davidvel said:


> Why do you keep saying you need a judgment to get a hit on your credit report. So if I pay my mortgage late every month (or stop) paying, this won't show up on my credit report until they sue and get a judgment? Of course it will.
> 
> I don't know the answer to the OP's question, or the other jurisdictional issues you raise, but clearly you don't need a judgment to ding a credit report.



In the USA, a company needs to be approved through an application process by the credit companies to extend credit , see reports and give reports. Your bank and all others companies that offer credit have been approved to do this. That is why they can report your missed payments and ding your credit score. These companies that extended credit in the USA make a debtor fill out a personal credit application which gives them permission to look at your credit. 

If a business has not been approved to run credit reports they would need to go to court to get a judgement. The judgement will show up as a derogatory on that persons credit report. With a judgement they can then try to collect. A judgement doesn't mean that the debtor will pay. 

When a person purchases, lets say a timeshare in Mexico, they do not fill out a credit application and no one checks their credit score because these international companies are not approved by the credit companies in the USA. Since they are not approved by the credit bureaus in the USA they can not report to the credit agencies in the USA.  I doubt that any international company can do anything other than get a judgement in their own country which is unenforceable in the USA. 

So yes, there needs to be a judgement to ding a persons credit if they are not affiliated with the credit bureaus. 

Bill


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## easyrider

buzglyd said:


> You do not need a judgement to report to a credit reporting agency.
> 
> You just need verification of debt.



Yes, this applies to many products bought on credit in the USA. 

This doesn't apply to international credit or any credit extended by a company or person in the USA that is not affiliated to the credit bureaus. 

Every one that isn't affiliated with a credit bureau needs to get a judgement to ding credit scores. An example is I rent a house and the renter doesn't pay. I take them to court and get a judgement. I have no way of calling the credit bureau to ding their credit even with the judgement but the judgement will show up on their credit report as a derogatory. With the judgement I can attempt a collection through a collection agency. This could also show up on their credit report. 

Bill


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## buzglyd

Well your lengthy explanation is totally wrong but you stick with it. 

A Mexican company with contracts written in US dollars could assign its debts to a US collection agency and it could be reported to the bureaus. 

You do not need a judgement and 99 percent of what agencies report do not have judgements backing them up.


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## davidvel

easyrider said:


> ...
> When a person purchases, lets say a timeshare in Mexico, they do not fill out a credit application and no one checks their credit score because these international companies are not approved by the credit companies in the USA. *Since they are not approved by the credit bureaus in the USA they can not report to the credit agencies in the USA*.  I doubt that any international company can do anything other than get a judgement in their own country which is unenforceable in the USA.
> 
> So yes, there needs to be a judgement to ding a persons credit if they are not affiliated with the credit bureaus.
> 
> Bill


You state the bolded part as fact, with no citation to any source. Then you say "I doubt". 

The whole question here is: Who (and how) is someone authorized, aka "approved" to report to the credit bureaus, and what is required by them to do so? What is the distinguishing factor between your bank, or your loan shark or your nail salon, or your landlord? What does "affiliated with the credit bureaus" mean? I'm not sure you or buzglyd have cited to anything that is definitive.


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## easyrider

buzglyd said:


> Well your lengthy explanation is totally wrong but you stick with it.
> 
> A Mexican company with contracts written in US dollars could assign its debts to a US collection agency and it could be reported to the bureaus.
> 
> You do not need a judgement and 99 percent of what agencies report do not have judgements backing them up.



How can a Mexican company enforce a judgement in the USA ? According to the State Department they can't.

https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...ernl-judicial-asst/Enforcement-of-Judges.html



> There is no bilateral treaty or multilateral convention in force between the United States and any other country on reciprocal recognition and enforcement of judgments



The only way a business can contact Equifax to report a delinquent payment is to actually be a member. Most small businesses in the USA are not affiliated with any of the credit reporting agencies and rely on judgments for collection. The credit reporting companies do monitor judgments and collections through court actions, not because a business owner who isn't affiliated with them reported the delinquent payment.

Bill


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## buzglyd

Debt Collection agencies are affiliated with the credit bureaus.


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## easyrider

davidvel said:


> You state the bolded part as fact, with no citation to any source. Then you say "I doubt".
> 
> The whole question here is: Who (and how) is someone authorized, aka "approved" to report to the credit bureaus, and what is required by them to do so? What is the distinguishing factor between your bank, or your loan shark or your nail salon, or your landlord? What does "affiliated with the credit bureaus" mean? I'm not sure you or buzglyd have cited to anything that is definitive.



A company needs to go through an application process to become a member of the credit bureaus. Here is some of what is required.

https://www.tsbsoftware.com/how-to-report-credit.jsp

A physical inspection of the business is a requirement. These credit reporting companies do not leave the USA for inspections. No international companies without a physical business location in the USA are allowed. Many people think that because a Mexican timeshare company has a physical address in the USA to collect mf's or make reservations they could report late payments. If it were reported I think it could be disputed because the original contract is from an international company and the report may violate the FDCPA.

Bill


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## easyrider

buzglyd said:


> Debt Collection agencies are affiliated with the credit bureaus.



So ? What is your point ? Do you really think a Mexican company can force an American living in the USA to pay their mf by reporting them to a credit agency ? I would like to know the process so if you know it please let us know. From what I have read I very much doubt they can.

Bill


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## buzglyd

easyrider said:


> So ? What is your point ? Do you really think a Mexican company can force an American living in the USA to pay their mf by reporting them to a credit agency ? I would like to know the process so if you know it please let us know. From what I have read I very much doubt they can.
> 
> Bill



If a Mexican timeshare property assigns it's debt to an American collection agency it will be the agency and not the Mexican company reporting it.

All very doable.


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## VacationForever

I second the response given by @buzglyd.  You do not need a judgment to ding someone's credit history.  Collection agencies in the US simply needs to report the unpaid debt to the credit reporting agencies.   If the debt is not repaid very soon after it being turned over to a collection agency, the debt will get reported to the collection agencies.  Any company, local or overseas can turn the debt over to US collection agencies.


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## easyrider

buzglyd said:


> If a Mexican timeshare property assigns it's debt to an American collection agency it will be the agency and not the Mexican company reporting it.
> 
> All very doable.



How does that happen ? You must think the resort in Mexico just calls Equafax or a collection company and says Joe Bob didn't pay and I am reporting this. It doesn't work that way.   

I think it would be illegal for a foreign company to use an American collection agency to collect on a foreign debt without a judgement in a court in the USA. The foreign company can not report to the credit agencies because they are not members of the credit agencies the same way I am not a member of a credit agency. Only members can call in to report some one for non-payment. The only way a credit agency picks this up for a report is if there is a judgement when no one reports it. 

When I bought my timeshare from the developer in Mexico I didn't fill out a credit application and didn't provide anything other than my name and address. They need a social security number to identify the debtors credit report. 

Anyway, even if this was doable I doubt that it is easy. From what I'm reading, which I have linked in this thread, it doesn't look like a doable dealio.

Bill


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## easyrider

VacationForever said:


> I second the response given by @buzglyd.  You do not need a judgment to ding someone's credit history.  Collection agencies in the US simply needs to report the unpaid debt to the credit reporting agencies.   If the debt is not repaid very soon after it being turned over to a collection agency, the debt will get reported to the collection agencies.  Any company, local or overseas can turn the debt over to US collection agencies.



No. They can't turn it over to a US collection agency without first getting a judgement in the USA. The debt was inured in a different country and the USA does not enforce foreign judgments. I left the link for this twice in the thread.

Bill


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## buzglyd

I’m done responding here. Bill knows everything. I know nothing.


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## davidvel

Since there is no judgment in Mexico (in all of the above examples), the enforceability of the non-existent judgment is irrelevant. 

The question (with no definitive answer yet) is, if a Mexican business has affiliates, or management, or debt collectors in the U.S., can they report to credit reporting agencies CRA?

The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act has provisions that apply to debt collectors reporting debts to CRA on behalf of creditors they represent. So it's clear they can report. 

 I haven't found anything that says the creditor must be U.S. based, but am still looking. So far, I mark this question as possibly yes, but still need more info. There may be federal regs that apply.


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## easyrider

Here is an example of how this works. It looks like a debtor can be sued in the country where the debt was incurred and under certain conditions you could be required to show up. I doubt that timeshare debt falls under a condition that would force a person through international treaty to show up in court in a different country. 

Really, for Americans anyway, our Mexican timeshare contracts are only considered " Right to Use" meaning they are not deeded. Basically what you sign is more of a promissory note and not a deeded mortgage contract. A promissory note is basically an IOU. There is nothing to foreclose on. 

Bill



> International Law Attorney | Houston, TX
> 
> Reveal number
> Private message
> 
> Posted on Mar 26, 2017
> " aria-expanded="true" style="box-sizing: border-box;">
> The owner of the debt may be able to sue you in the jurisdiction in question , but in order to enforce the judgement here they would have to show that there you had notice and an opportunity to be heard; United States jurisdictions will generally not enforce any judgement obtained in absentia (i.e.without you being there or at least having been properly served here). If they serve you though international treaty you will be in court there. I think a lot will depend on how much you owe and whether it's worth their while to try to collect it. Also, even if they are successful and they can enforce the judgement here, your state may not allow them to touch many of your assets. I think you should consult an international lawyer in your area so all this is fully explained to you, and you can decide what course of action to take.





> The use of notes may also be a matter of local practice. In some cross-border credit transactions (particularly those involving Latin American borrowers), local law may require that loans to a borrower located in a foreign country be evidenced by a note in the local language that is governed by local law even where the foreign borrower is a party to a separate credit agreement governed by the laws of a United States jurisdiction



The rtu contract that I cancelled in Mexico was written in English, not Spanish. Technically, to be enforceable in Mexico, the rtu contract would have to written in Spanish. 

So what it looks like to me is these rtu's from Mexico are unsecured promissory notes that would be very hard to collect when the buyer lives in the USA if that buyer decided to stop payment. If the note was sold to a collection agency that agency would need to get a judgement in a US Court to enforce that note to ding a credit report. Any collection notation on a credit report could be disputed by the debtor until the collection agency gets a judgement. The problem is that foreign judgments are not enforceable in the USA and the buyer isn't required to go to a Mexican Court in most circumstances. 

Bill


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## easyrider

buzglyd said:


> I’m done responding here. Bill knows everything. I know nothing.



You know , providing a link that supports your statement is a bit more meaningful that just spouting out what you think. I hope your not upset that I would like proof of what you claim. Upsetting anyone here isn't my intent. I would really like to know how a Mexican timeshare company can legally go the distance regarding collections. 

Bill


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## easyrider

From the looks of it, international debt with the exception of some fines or penalties in some places does not follow a person back to the USA. A company in Mexico , like a timeshare seller, does not have the ability to report to cra's (credit reporting agencies like Equifax ). The Mexican timeshare sellers can hire management companies in the USA to collect mf's and call a person that is no longer making payments. Resortcom.com is one such company. All Resortcom can do is call and send a letter to let the overdue account holder know that according to their records there are payments lacking. At this point the debtor can say prove it or I dispute that and Resortcom would report back to the Mexican company owning the debt.  

Many timeshare contracts in Mexico have discrepancies , mistakes , unfulfilled actions and outright lies which make most of them easy to get out of and very hard for the seller to enforce when the buyer is from another country, imo. 

https://www.thestreet.com/story/12789658/1/credit-qa-can-overseas-debts-affect-my-score.html



> *Q:* When I left Iceland after living there for two years, I left a credit card with an outstanding balance. Will that affect my credit in the states? – _Greg, Brooklyn_
> 
> 
> *A:* In most cases, any international debts you may have incurred while overseas won’t be held against you in the states.
> 
> 
> “International and U.S. credit files are maintained separately, as each country has different credit-related regulations and laws,” Demitra Wilson, a spokesperson for Equifax, tells MainStreet.




https://corporate.resortcom.com/timeshare-financial-services/



> *In-House, Modern Delinquency Solutions*
> 
> Our collections department – a team of multilingual professionals sensitive to diverse customs and business practices – strengthens, streamlines, and improves the performance of collection practices and procedures, expands the options offered to members in delinquency, and ensures continuous cash flow and the retention of long-term member relationships. Our state-of-the-art timeshare management software, ResortConnect, supports multiple currencies, making our collection activity dynamic, agile, and efficient.



There is information in this Federal Reserve pdf that suggests there are many rules regarding collections and reporting to cra's. 

https://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/bulletin/2003/0203lead.pdf



> s. Loans extended by individuals, employers, insurance companies, and foreign entities typically are not reported.




I actually do know a golfer who stopped making mf payments on a Mexican timeshare. He is an attorney and all he did was call and said he is done because they took out his golf privileges and he decided to go elsewhere. So far, maybe 2 1/2 years now, not a word from the resort.

Bill


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## Iggyearl

easyrider said:


> I actually do know a golfer who stopped making mf payments on a Mexican timeshare. He is an attorney and all he did was call and said he is done because they took out his golf privileges and he decided to go elsewhere. So far, maybe 2 1/2 years now, not a word from the resort.


Par for the course...........


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## easyrider

Iggyearl said:


> Par for the course...........



That is funny !!!


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## Karen G

Finally we have a "real life" experience of what happened to someone who stopped making their maintenance fees on a Mexican timeshare:  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...act-some-company-to-exit-my-timeshare.274216/


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## bankr63

Karen G said:


> Finally we have a "real life" experience of what happened to someone who stopped making their maintenance fees on a Mexican timeshare:  https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...act-some-company-to-exit-my-timeshare.274216/


I was hoping that someone would provide real experience and not just a lot of theory.

I do know that my FIL walked away from a Mexican timeshare many years ago with apparently no deleterious consequences; he claims to have "just stopped paying" and after a couple of years "they just stopped asking".  Now he just uses our excess TPUs instead.  I don't have enough information to post knowledgeably on his full situation, and it would be a MX to CA action, so of little interest to the argument here and probably wouldn't answer your original question Karen.


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## buzglyd

bankr63 said:


> I was hoping that someone would provide real experience and not just a lot of theory.
> 
> I do know that my FIL walked away from a Mexican timeshare many years ago with apparently no deleterious consequences; he claims to have "just stopped paying" and after a couple of years "they just stopped asking".  Now he just uses our excess TPUs instead.  I don't have enough information to post knowledgeably on his full situation, and it would be a MX to CA action, so of little interest to the argument here and probably wouldn't answer your original question Karen.



In most cases if you've already paid off the loan or have paid most of it, the Mexican TS isn't going to chase maintenance fees when they can just take it back. However, a Mexican TS could assign the debt to a US collection agency and that agency could attempt to collect and report it to the credit agencies if that is part of their policy. THEY DO NOT NEED A JUDGMENT TO DO THIS. 

So yes it can happen but that doesn't mean it will happen. If a debtor disputes it, the agency just has to provide verification of debt (signed contract, etc.).


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## easyrider

buzglyd said:


> In most cases if you've already paid off the loan or have paid most of it, the Mexican TS isn't going to chase maintenance fees when they can just take it back. However, a Mexican TS could assign the debt to a US collection agency and that agency could attempt to collect and report it to the credit agencies if that is part of their policy. THEY DO NOT NEED A JUDGMENT TO DO THIS.
> 
> So yes it can happen but that doesn't mean it will happen. If a debtor disputes it, the agency just has to provide verification of debt (signed contract, etc.).



I wonder how exactly they can do this ? Collection agencies in the USA, from the links I provided, seem to be regulated and only chase debt from the USA. Maybe an International debt collection agency could pursue the debt but they would have to follow the Fair Credit Act and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. To use an American based collection agency the collection agency would need to verify the debt is a legal debt. I'm not seeing how they can verify this when it is international debt. 

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...true&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title16/16CIsubchapF.tpl

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rul...dings/fair-debt-collection-practices-act-text

"""
*§ 809.  Validation of debts*
*(a) Notice of debt; contents*
Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

*(b) Disputed debts*
If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) of this section that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector. Collection activities and communications that do not otherwise violate this subchapter may continue during the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor. Any collection activities and communication during the 30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with the disclosure of the consumer’s right to dispute the debt or request the name and address of the original creditor. """"


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## buzglyd

It says verification of debt OR judgement. If your name is on a signed purchase and sale agreement, that is verification of debt.


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## davidvel

easyrider said:


> I wonder how exactly they can do this ? Collection agencies in the USA, from the links I provided, seem to be regulated and only chase debt from the USA. Maybe an International debt collection agency could pursue the debt but they would have to follow the Fair Credit Act and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. To use an American based collection agency the collection agency would need to verify the debt is a legal debt. I'm not seeing how they can verify this when it is international debt.
> 
> https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...true&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title16/16CIsubchapF.tpl
> 
> https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rul...dings/fair-debt-collection-practices-act-text
> 
> """
> *§ 809.  Validation of debts*
> *(a) Notice of debt; contents*
> Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --
> 
> (1) the amount of the debt;
> 
> (2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;
> 
> (3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;
> 
> (4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and
> 
> (5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.
> 
> *(b) Disputed debts*
> If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) of this section that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector. Collection activities and communications that do not otherwise violate this subchapter may continue during the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor. Any collection activities and communication during the 30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with the disclosure of the consumer’s right to dispute the debt or request the name and address of the original creditor. """"


I have dealt with these issues (debt collection) in my practice for decades.  We can debate this forever, but debt collection is a different issue than reporting delinquencies to a credit reporting agency.
This is the distinction you have missing throughout this thread. 

The FDCPA does not directly regulate reporting to CRA. You can be a day late and they can report you. You don't need a judgment to get a ding on your credit report. These are completely separate issues. 

Again, I don't know if a U.S. CRA will report such info for a debt, but the lines are clearly blurred when you mix in that these entities are U.S. based and have agreements with the CRA to report derogatory info.


----------



## easyrider

davidvel said:


> I have dealt with these issues (debt collection) in my practice for decades.  We can debate this forever, but debt collection is a different issue than reporting delinquencies to a credit reporting agency.
> This is the distinction you have missing throughout this thread.
> 
> The FDCPA does not directly regulate reporting to CRA. You can be a day late and they can report you. You don't need a judgment to get a ding on your credit report. These are completely separate issues.
> 
> Again, I don't know if a U.S. CRA will report such info for a debt, but the lines are clearly blurred when you mix in that these entities are U.S. based and have agreements with the CRA to report derogatory info.



This was addressed elsewhere in this thread. To report a delinquent account to "ding" a credit score the company holding the debt has to belong to a CRA like Eqifax. Many retailers and financial institutions in the USA are members of the CRA's and can report you to the CRA's for non-payment and "ding" your credit score. When a company holding the debt does not belong to the CRA's they can use a "bill collection agency" but the debt needs to be verified. The debt is verified in court where a judgement is given. 

If this were otherwise, anyone could report anyone for anything. 

A timeshare bought in Mexico is an unsecured debt that has many problems with obtaining a judgement from a Mexican Court including the fact that the contract is usually in English for Americans and they need to be in Spanish. There is no way to get a judgement in the USA because it is International debt.

International companies are not members of the CRA's. International companies can't enforce a judgement from their country in the USA and would have many problems trying to obtain a judgement in the USA. I provided links in this thread to back these statements up. 

Another interesting dealio is how problematic it is for International Debt Collectors to collect in other countries. According to the pdf I am linking below, the USA is one of the hardest countries to collect international debt.

http://www.eulerhermes.com/mediacen...-International-Debt-Collection-1213-dec14.pdf

"UNITEDSTATES + The payment culture of domestic companies is becoming uncertain and, in the absence of a harmonized framework on late payments, payment terms remain a mere contractual issue and the average DSO would tend to be excessive. + The court system is complexified by a federal structure in which ownership protection mechanisms are not recognized and where no simplified proceedings are available to settle the simplest files. As a result,significant delays and costs must be expected whilst enforcement may be difficult. + When the debtor become sinsolvent, collecting debt becomes a complex task. First, the bankruptcy system remains pro-debtor and, although it is often said that making a company insolvent is a significant way to obtain payment, in practice bankruptcy reorganization is resource-draining. In addition, most states protect the debtors' personal assets and there is therefore a possibility for a corporate bankruptcy to be listed as“no asset” cases. This means that after liquidating the debts, the likelihood of any distribution to creditors is zero."


----------



## CherBear

Yes.  Pueblo Bonito reported our friends and they are fighting to get it removed.    Although the resort is in Mexico, the contract was done through a U.S. operation.    We also cancelled our contract, but I fought over the amount to keep it off our credit.   Total nightmare & precious time wasted fighting them.     Our friends wrote a letter to the 3 credit bureaus explaining the dispute, but unfortunately it is still showing as


----------



## oldxr

Wife had a Mexican time share she stopped paying on .Nothing ever showed up on her credit .In modern times you never know what will pop up on your credit report .probably best to keep an eye on it .If you stop paying the maintenance fee and they resell it again they made more money then if you kept it.I think they figured that out .


----------



## skimeup

I have an experience with Royal Holiday that might be relevant.  RH is a Mexican Timeshare company (HQ in Mexico) and owns multiple properties there.  It now sells only points I believe but it used to sell weeks.   I purchase two RH weeks from a tug member because RH also has contracts with other timeshares and hotels in multiple places around the globe.  I purchased the weeks in order to use the Manhattan properties at a ridiculously low rate (some $500 per week MF plus NYC tax when one is staying there).  Then they threw in another $60 per night for certain cities and it was almost like my MF was doubled.  I stopped paying because it was cheaper to use RH points.  So in sum, company headquartered in Mexico, resale weeks purchased through tug, I stopped paying.  It went to collection in 2014 or so and is still on my credit report.  Two weeks, two dings.  I changed phone numbers because they also made harassing phone calls.  

The good news is that it doesn't seem to have harmed my credit score much and they haven't bothered to try to enforce payment in court.  I see there is debate about whether they could do that but I can't imagine the cost and court time would be much of a payoff for them.

Not initiating a debate on RH.  They do have an awful rep for deceptive/pressure sales in Mexico but that is not why I use them and I  am happy with what I do with them.


----------



## davidvel

skimeup said:


> I have an experience with Royal Holiday that might be relevant.  RH is a Mexican Timeshare company (HQ in Mexico) and owns multiple properties there.  It now sells only points I believe but it used to sell weeks.   I purchase two RH weeks from a tug member because RH also has contracts with other timeshares and hotels in multiple places around the globe.  I purchased the weeks in order to use the Manhattan properties at a ridiculously low rate (some $500 per week MF plus NYC tax when one is staying there).  Then they threw in another $60 per night for certain cities and it was almost like my MF was doubled.  I stopped paying because it was cheaper to use RH points.  So in sum, company headquartered in Mexico, resale weeks purchased through tug, I stopped paying.  It went to collection in 2014 or so and is still on my credit report.  Two weeks, two dings.  I changed phone numbers because they also made harassing phone calls.
> 
> The good news is that it doesn't seem to have harmed my credit score much and they haven't bothered to try to enforce payment in court.  I see there is debate about whether they could do that but I can't imagine the cost and court time would be much of a payoff for them.
> 
> Not initiating a debate on RH.  They do have an awful rep for deceptive/pressure sales in Mexico but that is not why I use them and I  am happy with what I do with them.


This can't be true. Easyrider has quoted lots of links to webpages about judgments, etc. and has definitively stated that collection agencies, despite their affiliation with the 3 credit bureaus cannot report foreign debt to them. You must have read the wrong credit report. (Sarcasm)


----------



## buzglyd

Ha! Posting links and ignoring parts of them is a skill!


----------



## RodgerKing

Passepartout said:


> That would be great info to have, but may be difficult to obtain. The vast majority of folks who default are first time buyers, and after the default they have no reason to hang around TUG.
> 
> Jim





easyrider said:


> No. They can't turn it over to a US collection agency without first getting a judgement in the USA. The debt was inured in a different country and the USA does not enforce foreign judgments. I left the link for this twice in the thread.
> 
> Bill


I can tell you my experience with defaulting on timeshares.  I purchased 13 timeshares out of Bankruptcy Court for 10 cents on the dollar, thinking I could sell them for 15 cents on the dollar.  When I discovered my mistake ( they are worth about a minus $500) I just deeded them back to the Timeshare company and sent the deed to their county to have recorded.  I did this about 4-5 times and I have never heard from anyone or had my credit dinged.  I think they have so many defaults that just getting my unit back through no effort on their part convinced them to go after someone else, not me.  The units are now out of my name and into theirs.  I did this about 8 years ago and still no problem, my credit is still almost perfect.


----------



## AZSadOwner

I've defaulted on a US timeshare and my credit rating took a moderate hit for 3 months, then went back up again !


----------



## easyrider

davidvel said:


> This can't be true. Easyrider has quoted lots of links to webpages about judgments, etc. and has definitively stated that collection agencies, despite their affiliation with the 3 credit bureaus cannot report foreign debt to them. You must have read the wrong credit report. (Sarcasm)



Indeed, I have quoted links that suggest that the consumer reporting agencies in the USA, like Equifax, have requirements of membership that include inspection of a physical address in the USA. For a company to report missed payments, that company has to be a member. The other cra report that could ding credit would include court actions like judgments. 

It depends on where you bought your product. If a person purchases a resale contract for a timeshare, meaning contract paid for in the USA, they could be reported to the consumer reporting agencies, by any member of a consumer reporting agency, that contracts with a foreign time share company. 



buzglyd said:


> Ha! Posting links and ignoring parts of them is a skill!



I get what you posted and would agree that anyone who misses payments could get dinged. The Federal Reserve pdf I linked actually reads that foreign debt is not typically reported. That actually means occasionally it does get reported. 

Bill


----------



## easyrider

RodgerKing said:


> I can tell you my experience with defaulting on timeshares.  I purchased 13 timeshares out of Bankruptcy Court for 10 cents on the dollar, thinking I could sell them for 15 cents on the dollar.  When I discovered my mistake ( they are worth about a minus $500) I just deeded them back to the Timeshare company and sent the deed to their county to have recorded.  I did this about 4-5 times and I have never heard from anyone or had my credit dinged.  I think they have so many defaults that just getting my unit back through no effort on their part convinced them to go after someone else, not me.  The units are now out of my name and into theirs.  I did this about 8 years ago and still no problem, my credit is still almost perfect.



Thanks for posting !! I think many people did the same with the same results.

Bill


----------



## davidvel

easyrider said:


> Indeed, *I have quoted links that suggest that the consumer reporting agencies in the USA, like Equifax, have requirements of membership that include inspection of a physical address in the USA*. For a company to report missed payments, that company has to be a member. The other cra report that could ding credit would include court actions like judgments.
> 
> It depends on where you bought your product. If a person purchases a resale contract for a timeshare, meaning contract paid for in the USA, they could be reported to the consumer reporting agencies, by any member of a consumer reporting agency, that contracts with a foreign time share company.
> 
> 
> 
> I get what you posted and would agree that anyone who misses payments could get dinged. The Federal Reserve pdf I linked actually reads that foreign debt is not typically reported. That actually means occasionally it does get reported.
> 
> Bill


You keep reporting this but keep ignoring that major debt collection agencies ARE members of the CRAs, and can report delinquent  debt. I'm  not saying they do or don't , just that they can.


----------



## easyrider

davidvel said:


> You keep reporting this but keep ignoring that major debt collection agencies ARE members of the CRAs, and can report delinquent  debt. I'm  not saying they do or don't , just that they can.



No, I haven't. A debt collection agency in the USA that is a member of the consumer reporting agencies can report delinquent debt. I think I was clear in this entire thread that only members can report. Membership does include debt collectors that meet the requirements for membership.

Bill


----------



## buzglyd

Bill is gonna need a chiropractor after moving those goal posts.


----------



## easyrider

buzglyd said:


> Bill is gonna need a chiropractor after moving those goal posts.



So do actually think that your credit report takes a ding when you stop paying on a Mexican timeshare or are you just playing the devils advocate ? Really, all you have provided in this thread are your opinions and comments about me. Neither are that interesting.

Bill


----------



## easyrider

I guess what it comes down to is that when you buy a timeshare, that payment history is not required to be reported to the consumer reporting agencies like Equifax, so I think most are not reported , especially those in foreign countries because these foreign companies are not members of any of the consumer reporting agencies in the USA. To actually report a delinquent payment the report has to include the payment history to be complete as required by the Fair Credit Report Act. Both positive and negative payment history is required. If a company only reports the non-payment history, without the full payment history, it would be easy to dispute because of a lack of information and the reporting company could be reported to the Federal Trade Commission who enforces the Fair Credit Report Act.

So if you do see a timeshare payment history on your credit report, that company that is reporting the payment history can absolutely report non-payment and ding your credit. Creditors that do not report payment history need to get a judgement to ding your credit. 

Bill


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## Blaaamo

What if you purchased from a US corporation that is operating a hotel in Mexico, ala Westin Lagunamar?


----------



## easyrider

Blaaamo said:


> What if you purchased from a US corporation that is operating a hotel in Mexico, ala Westin Lagunamar?



I'm not certain about the Westin, but with most American based resort chains that operate in Mexico, the buyer is financed through a line of credit, like a credit card, from an American lending institution. Like a bank that offers credit cards for the resort chain. Payment history for these do show up on consumer credit reports like any other credit card or line of credit. 

The maintenance fee is a different story. It typically is not reported to cra's. For missed maintenance fee's, generally, the resort will try to contact the person, by mail or email usually. Eventually a certified mail is sent and if there is no response, the account is locked out and later closed. This is just a generic version of what happens as the process is likely different depending on circumstances, location and company policy. 

Bill


----------



## ConcernedTimeshareOwner

easyrider said:


> Yes, I know this. I use resortcom.com to pay my MF for my Mexican timeshares. What matters is "where" the product was bought. If you bought a Mexican timeshare while in the USA then that company would be doing regular business in the USA and could easily get a judgement. Even so, that doesn't require the debtor to actually pay.
> 
> If you buy a product in Mexico and quit paying the company that owns that product, that company can not force a judgement in the USA. If they can't get a judgement then they can't get a collection company to call you or hit your credit report with a derogatory remark because they need the judgement to get a collection order.
> 
> Bill


Can they pretend as though you purchased it in the US? Suppose the documents that you signed have some sort of fine print claiming that the transaction was made in the U.S.? 

I know my question is odd...but the salesperson lied so much that I don't doubt the untruths could continue should we decide to stop paying.


----------



## Passepartout

ConcernedTimeshareOwner said:


> A Can they pretend as though you purchased it in the US? B Suppose the documents that you signed have some sort of fine print claiming that the transaction was made in the U.S.?
> 
> C I know my question is odd...but the salesperson lied so much that I don't doubt the untruths could continue should we decide to stop paying.


(A) 'They'- whoever that is- can pretend whatever they want, but that doesn't make it so. (B) That would be fraud. (C) Yes, the question is odd. Timeshare salesweasels lie. The salesman would be in no position to know whether or not you are paying, nor could they do anything about it.

You are manufacturing groundless things to worry about. Just STOP.

Jim


----------



## easyrider

ConcernedTimeshareOwner said:


> Can they pretend as though you purchased it in the US? Suppose the documents that you signed have some sort of fine print claiming that the transaction was made in the U.S.?
> 
> I know my question is odd...but the salesperson lied so much that I don't doubt the untruths could continue should we decide to stop paying.



It seems that all credit card payments and lines of credit associated with these credit card companies are reported to the credit reporting agencies in the USA. I know that American resorts with property in Mexico have access to consumer credit. Usually the buyer is approved through their ( Hilton, Marriott, Starwood and the likes) credit programs which are USA based credit companies. Credit is very regulated regarding these companies that have access to it .

For Mexican based resorts that finance their products without USA credit companies they really can't report to the credit reporting agencies in the USA unless they are set up with credit in the USA. If you look at your credit report you can see who is reporting.

The credit reporting is for the purchase of the timeshare, not the maintenance fee. The MF is usually not reported because it is owned by the developer.

It wouldn't surprise me to see some shenanigans regarding small timeshare resorts in Mexico. They have no other way to enforce their policies other than deception or spending money that often results in non-payment anyway, imo.

Bill


----------



## wrobinson

I am a former timeshare sales rep who worked in Mexico for many years. If you purchased a timeshare in Mexico, chances are, it is illegal by nature. The Caribbean is the same. 

For example:  Unlimited Vacation Club contract states that you have a contract with "the mediator," not with unlimited Vacation Club.  The mediator is a Mexican national who is supposed to be operating in Panama. he is no where to be found and does not show up on any records in Panama. He did not sign the document.  They did not produce a power of attorney, and therefore, the contract is voidable.

Unlimited Vacation Club does not have a business licenses to operate in Mexico.  They hide behind the skirts of AMResorts (Secrets, Now, etc.)

If you have any legal issues, according to the contract, it is only with the mediator in Panama.  You must go to Panama, not the U.S.

Although Unlimited Vacation Club does have its headquarters in Florida, you do not have a relationship with them, according to the contract. all they do is service the customers for the "mediator." Therefore, they cannot legally report you to any credit bureau. The purchase was made in Mexico and it does not follow you back to the U.S.

The sales management and sales staff who signed the contract do not have the legal right to sign the contract as they do not work for any of the clubs and are not resp for the club. They also do not work for the "mediator." They work for a pay company, a separate entity. The contracts they sign are voidable. 

Read your contract thoroughly.  There is nothing you can do. Period. 

Visit this website and there are free timeshare contracts to read for free.  www.everythingabouttimeshares.com

if you have any more questions, feel free to ask here on this site or my personal email: wcrobinson1973@gmail.com


----------



## easyrider

wrobinson said:


> I am a former timeshare sales rep who worked in Mexico for many years. If you purchased a timeshare in Mexico, chances are, it is illegal by nature. The Caribbean is the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Read your contract thoroughly.  There is nothing you can do. Period.



I think you meant " There is nothing they can do". I agree with you for the majority of international timeshare properties but some companies in the USA offer people visiting their USA based resorts international property a membership to their branded vacation systems in the USA and use financing from American finance companies. These companies that offer this financing usually do report to cra's because it is a line of credit from an American finance company for a product based in the USA. 

Worldmark by Wyndham and Vacation Internationale both sell and finance memberships to people visiting their properties in Mexico. These payments are reported.

Your website is very informative. I enjoyed browsing through it. Thanks Wayne !!

Bill


----------



## s0nginmyheart

Reviving an older thread... have the same question as OP, but specifically for Diamond Resorts... 

We bought Diamond Resorts timeshare at Cabo Azul, Mexico. The agreement is with DPM Acquisition Mexico, S. DE R.L. DE CV... "the legal entity in charge of selling and managing the timeshare program." There's another page for "The Club Membership" which is with Diamond Resorts International Club, Inc. a Florida Corporation (I believe this is the exchange). 

Because we purchased all of this is Mexico, even though Diamond is US based... what's the repercussion of stopping our payments and just "walking away" (still have a balance on loan). Again, specifically for Diamond Resorts... All the responses here seem to conflict. Strangely, my husband does not see Diamond on his credit reports (all 3 agencies)...


----------



## LannyPC

s0nginmyheart said:


> All the responses here seem to conflict



Yes, I know it is a little frustrating trying to get a straight, clear answer to this question.  But unfortunately, circumstances vary so there is no one-size-fits-all answer to the million-dollar question.  And, as far as I have seen or not seen, no one who has actually defaulted on a Mexican timeshare purchase has come on this thread and reported in detail what has or has not happened.

That being said are you looking for the answer(s) so that you can weigh your options?  IOW, are you thinking "I'll just default if the consequences are not that bad but if they are more severe, then I will pay the debts"?


----------



## TUGBrian

as mentioned...even if some folks report "result A" happened...there is no real guarantee that you wont see "result B" if you do the same thing.

I would say that the chances of a US based company reporting your default is significantly higher than a mexican company.  and the fact that you still have a loan balance means at the very least whoever the creditor was that loaned you the money is going to make some effort to recover those funds.  the level of effort like mentioned above...all depends and can change from one situation to another.

I think it would be safe to assume if you defaulted on your loan from DRI, that at the very least the default on the loan payment would certainly show up on your credit.  (perhaps the default on the maint fee would have a different result, but it would certainly be less of an impact than defaulting on a multi thousand dollar loan)


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

s0nginmyheart said:


> Reviving an older thread... have the same question as OP, but specifically for Diamond Resorts...
> 
> We bought Diamond Resorts timeshare at Cabo Azul, Mexico. The agreement is with DPM Acquisition Mexico, S. DE R.L. DE CV... "the legal entity in charge of selling and managing the timeshare program." There's another page for "The Club Membership" which is with Diamond Resorts International Club, Inc. a Florida Corporation (I believe this is the exchange).
> 
> Because we purchased all of this is Mexico, even though Diamond is US based... what's the repercussion of stopping our payments and just "walking away" (still have a balance on loan). Again, specifically for Diamond Resorts... All the responses here seem to conflict. Strangely, my husband does not see Diamond on his credit reports (all 3 agencies)...


Your are asking for advice on legal questions.  Please bear in mind that free legal advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.


----------



## kalles

I purchased a Mexican timeshare on eBay and stopped paying maintenance fees they doubled.  Timeshare was worthless couldn’t sell it and didn’t use it.  They stopped sending me bills then 4 years later a got a collection agency from us request double of what I owe for interest and late fees.  I don’t know what to do my credit is perfect other than this nightmare.  The timeshare in Mexico won’t even discuss it with me they said you have to pay whether we bill you or not can I do anything


----------



## easyrider

s0nginmyheart said:


> Reviving an older thread... have the same question as OP, but specifically for Diamond Resorts...
> 
> We bought Diamond Resorts timeshare at Cabo Azul, Mexico. The agreement is with DPM Acquisition Mexico, S. DE R.L. DE CV... "the legal entity in charge of selling and managing the timeshare program." There's another page for "The Club Membership" which is with Diamond Resorts International Club, Inc. a Florida Corporation (I believe this is the exchange).
> 
> Because we purchased all of this is Mexico, even though Diamond is US based... what's the repercussion of stopping our payments and just "walking away" (still have a balance on loan). Again, specifically for Diamond Resorts... All the responses here seem to conflict. Strangely, my husband does not see Diamond on his credit reports (all 3 agencies)...



If the financing is through an American Bank, like a line of credit, then it is likely to affect your credit report and score if they go to court to get a judgement against you for the debt. Because you bought a "Club Membership" there is nothing to foreclose. A deeded timeshare is a mortgaged backed security. A Club Membership isn't. 

They will likely write off the debt and eventually sell it to debt collectors for pennies on the dollar.

Bill


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## easyrider

I was thinking about timeshare debt today. Personally, I have always paid every bill I made. I did cancel a timeshare contract within the rescission period, thanks to Tug. I ended up buying 17 weeks after learning how to, thanks to Tug. I learned how to rent and sell these timeshares, thanks to Tug. I now have a decent portfolio of weeks I like that are mostly rtu's that begin expiring in a couple of years, meaning I learned a timeshare exit strategy, thanks to Tug.

Regarding timeshares, many people feel it is ok to just stop paying their contracts or maintenance fee's. I don't share that feeling for most cases. Especially when some one buys a resale and decides to just stop paying the mf because they are too ignorant or lazy to give it away or sell it. Regarding defaults, just because you can, doesn't really mean you should, in many cases, imo.

I understand that people over pay for timeshares. I personally know many people that will only buy a timeshare from a developer. They absolutely can afford it and get much pleasure from their purchase.

I personally know people that can not really afford a timeshare but they make the best of it meaning they didn't default. They sucked it up and learned how to enjoy it. This includes me with my first WM purchase.

I get that there are many reasons why people can no longer afford their timeshares and that the developers have made it tough to get out of a contract. Bankruptcy or death seem to be the sure ways out of a timeshare contract.

Really, the bottom line for me on the subject of defaulting is the person should try to give the timeshare away or try to make a deal with the developer before defaulting.

Bill


----------



## pittle

In 2008, hubs fell in love with 2 "boutique resort" properties that he just had to have. One was in Mazatlan and the other in Puerto Vallarta. Both were pre-construction purchases and have gone belly up because they have never been finished, so we have walked away lost our money. We did go to each of these resorts in their semi-finished state quite a few times, so those were some expensive weeks!

Two years ago, the nicer one (PV) raised the MF to a level that was $300 higher than our Sky Suite unit and we chose not to send them the money or make a reservation for 2017. They had only 2 two-bedroom units completed and 4 Studios. They have no amenities whatsoever. In 2018, I got an email asking if we were still a part of their "family" and I said that we could no longer afford it. They said they understood. We have heard that this place is trying to sell all the units as full-ownership condos and is happy when more and more owners of the 2-bedroom units are dropping out.

The Mazatlan one has an awesome location. We had the month of June in a beachfront 2-bedroom fixed time unit. We knew that the low fixed MF would not sustain it, but the fixed MF was only for those who bought pre-construction. They built the first 8 units and started a snazzier tower and focused on that. The deferred maintenance on the first 8 has taken its toll. In 2014, they changed the name and offered us a Senior Certificate that would allow us to go our entire month with no MF for the rest of our lives for a prepayment of 3 years MF. We drove down in 2015 and stayed 2 of our 4 weeks, and went in 2017 and stayed 6 days - A/C did not work and furniture looked awful - I covered it with a sheet.  In 2018, hubs flew down intending to stay 2 weeks as he loves the location - he arrived on Saturday and called me Monday morning telling me to change his ticket and get him home ASAP!  Now they have sold the resort and the new owners have cancelled our fixed time reservations and quadrupled the MF. We were told that the new owners were not going to honor the Sr. Certs and we would have to come there to renegotiate our contract. Since they are not honoring our written contract, we are considering it null & void.  We will not send them any money.

We have not seen either of these on our credit report.


----------



## LannyPC

easyrider said:


> Really, the bottom line for me on the subject of defaulting is the person should try to give the timeshare away or try to make a deal with the developer before defaulting.



While I won't dispute that point, I think one problem "owners" of Mexican TSs have if they want to give their TS away is the high transfer costs that the resorts impose.  With that in mind, "owners" who want to get rid of what they have thus feel it's cheaper to default and not pay any transfer costs than to give it away and pay the transfer costs.


----------



## easyrider

LannyPC said:


> While I won't dispute that point, I think one problem "owners" of Mexican TSs have if they want to give their TS away is the high transfer costs that the resorts impose.  With that in mind, "owners" who want to get rid of what they have thus feel it's cheaper to default and not pay any transfer costs than to give it away and pay the transfer costs.



I think you and Phyllis have made valid points regarding Mexican timeshare developers changing their rules and costs. While the transfer fee has increased at the Villa Group, the Mexican timeshare I own multiple contracts with, the mf really hasn't increased too much. 

Some Mexican resorts have huge transfer fee's and extra mf's every so many years and they are very hard to get rid of. I guess walking away is sometimes the best action to take.

Regarding the Villa Group, there are different types of ownership. The newest type are points. The points revert to a premiere membership when sold with the mf of the points. I can see people walking away from these as no one would buy it resale. 

If the memberships I bought resale were to significantly change and I didn't want it anymore I would first call the developer to tell them. I would also attempt to give the membership away. Then I would likely stop paying the mf and disregard all attempts made to collect by the resort unless they were able to get a judgement in the USA which is very unlikely to happen. 

Bill


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## TravelTime

I hope it is. It is not fair for people to default and the rest of us need to pay for them.


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## Passepartout

TravelTime said:


> I hope it is. It is not fair for people to default and the rest of us need to pay for them.


Unlikely. If people default on MF in Mexico, it can't be reported to U.S. credit reporting agencies. Possibly a different story if the Mexican resort is based in the U.S. But I suspect few are.

Of course the premise of the thread is 'Defaulting on a Mexican Timeshare *PURCHASE*', not a default of ongoing MF.

Defaulting on the purchase would have no effect on other 'owners'.


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## PigsDad

Passepartout said:


> Of course the premise of the thread is 'Defaulting on a Mexican Timeshare *PURCHASE*', not a default of ongoing MF.
> 
> Defaulting on the purchase would have no effect on other 'owners'.


How can one default on a _*purchase*_, but not the *ongoing maintenance fees*???

Kurt


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## Passepartout

PigsDad said:


> How can one default on a _*purchase*_, but not the *ongoing maintenance fees*???
> 
> Kurt


By stopping payments for the purchase. Of course it would also be stopping MF payments too, but that isn't what the thread header says.


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## pittle

I agree with the giveaway/selling option.  We have bought and sold quite a few timeshares resale since 1991. The two that I mentioned above were special circumstances and we could not give them away if anyone read the reviews here or on Trip Advisor - they are both lost causes.  

We do have one that we are considering giving to a son and his wife as they seem to like going with us to our timeshares. They may not when they have to pay for it.   It has 10 years left on the contract.  I bought it resale for basically the cost of the then transfer - $400.  They are going to this resort the first week of May and if they want it, we will pay the transfer fees and put their names on it.  I will then teach then how to use SFX to go wherever they want to go.  If they do not want it, it will be posted on TUG in the bargain section sometime this summer.  We bought this 1 bedroom 2 bath unit for overflow to the beachfront unit because a really nice resort is next door - we send our guests there or use it for SFX exchanges. Our SFX expires at the end of this year and we just plan to go to our Mayan World and Buganvilias in the future.


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## rpennisi

pittle said:


> I agree with the giveaway/selling option.  We have bought and sold quite a few timeshares resale since 1991. The two that I mentioned above were special circumstances and we could not give them away if anyone read the reviews here or on Trip Advisor - they are both lost causes.
> 
> We do have one that we are considering giving to a son and his wife as they seem to like going with us to our timeshares. They may not when they have to pay for it.   It has 10 years left on the contract.  I bought it resale for basically the cost of the then transfer - $400.  They are going to this resort the first week of May and if they want it, we will pay the transfer fees and put their names on it.  I will then teach then how to use SFX to go wherever they want to go.  If they do not want it, it will be posted on TUG in the bargain section sometime this summer.  We bought this 1 bedroom 2 bath unit for overflow to the beachfront unit because a really nice resort is next door - we send our guests there or use it for SFX exchanges. Our SFX expires at the end of this year and we just plan to go to our Mayan World and Buganvilias in the future.



PB Sunset Beach?


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## pittle

rpennisi said:


> PB Sunset Beach?


Emerald Bay


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## T-Dot-Traveller

LannyPC said:


> ..... I think one problem "owners" of Mexican TSs have if they want to give their TS away is the high transfer costs that the resorts impose.
> 
> With that in mind, "owners" who want to get rid of what they have thus feel it's cheaper to default and not pay any transfer costs than to give it away and pay the transfer costs.



As a Grupo Mayan -Vidanta owner -
The details are a little more nuanced .

1) the transfer cost to immediate family ( children , grandchildren) is free - 0$ .

2) when resale transfer cost became 5x MF in fall 2005 , they also added MF on use only ( "no go/no pay") .so there is no annual cost unless you book a vacation .

Our  2006 Mayan Palace  contract has both / per the addedum  the MF on use only - started in the 5th year of ownership .This and the VF bonus week do not transfer on resale . These addendum DO transfer to family - no charge .

3) Contracts up to 2010 have a reno / 2nd MF every 5 years & a renewal cost at year 25 . This means that every 5 years there is an exit strategy ,that was installed by the developer .

IMO - Vidanta  would be happy , if every owner of these older contracts called them & asked to give their contract back . Vidanta can take the registered week & recycle it into a Grand Luxxe contract for Vida Sales to sell .

4) Contracts since 2011 require a renewal payment every 10 years and likely always have the MF on use only feature .(the renewal is 1x or 1.5x of the current MF/use fee  depeding on your contract specifics).

So while folks may regret buying and / or  cannot easily resell - there is no on going costs for non use .


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## PigsDad

Passepartout said:


> By stopping payments for the purchase. Of course it would also be stopping MF payments too, but that isn't what the thread header says.


Right -- defaulting on the purchase would also stop the MF payments, which *would *affect other owners.  That was my point.  I was just questioning how it would *not *affect other owners, as you claimed.

Kurt


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## Karen G

PigsDad said:


> Right -- defaulting on the purchase would also stop the MF payments, which *would *affect other owners.  That was my point.  I was just questioning how it would *not *affect other owners, as you claimed.
> 
> Kurt


If the purchase was rescinded or defaulted, the sales team can just resell it and new owners would pay the MF.


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## PigsDad

Karen G said:


> If the purchase was rescinded or defaulted, the sales team can just resell it and new owners would pay the MF.


Big difference between rescinded and defaulted.  If would-be buyers rescind a purchase, the developer still owns the week (it's as if the purchase never happened) and would continue to be responsible for the maintenance fees.

However, if an owner defaults on their loan and also stops paying for maintenance fees, it can take several years before the property is foreclosed and ownership goes back to the developer.  For those years, the owner is not paying the maintenance fees, and therefore the *other owners* at that property have to cover the maintenance fees that are not being paid by the owner who defaulted.  If enough owners are in default, it can significantly increase the maintenance fees for those who do pay.

Claiming that owners who are in default does not affect *other owners* is just plain false.

Kurt


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## Eric B

PigsDad said:


> Big difference between rescinded and defaulted.  If would-be buyers rescind a purchase, the developer still owns the week (it's as if the purchase never happened) and would continue to be responsible for the maintenance fees.
> 
> However, if an owner defaults on their loan and also stops paying for maintenance fees, it can take several years before the property is foreclosed and ownership goes back to the developer.  For those years, the owner is not paying the maintenance fees, and therefore the *other owners* at that property have to cover the maintenance fees that are not being paid by the owner who defaulted.  If enough owners are in default, it can significantly increase the maintenance fees for those who do pay.
> 
> Kurt



Probably true for a deeded week, but I'm not sure if makes much difference with a RTU.  Particularly for points based ones, though not limited to those.  If you don't actually own property, it doesn't have to be foreclosed, etc.


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## ElectricCobraYoga

easyrider said:


> So ? What is your point ? Do you really think a Mexican company can force an American living in the USA to pay their mf by reporting them to a credit agency ? I would like to know the process so if you know it please let us know. From what I have read I very much doubt they can.
> 
> Bill


Hi Bill
This is a very informative thread. I'm in Canada. Do you know any resources I could look up regarding them reporting on my Canadian Equifax?
Tamara
PS same person


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## easyrider

I don't know how it works in Canada. I do know Canada has a different Equifax system that doesn't report to the USA and visa a versa. I found this out when trying to fiance a car in Vancouver. You would need to research this a little on the Eqifax Canada website or just call them and ask. I wonder how many Canadians defaulted on Mexican timeshare loans in the past ? 

Bill


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## pianodinosaur

I think that timeshares are a luxury.  I now believe that taking out a loan to pay for a timeshare is a bad idea. Therefore, my advice is that if you cannot afford to pay for the timeshare up front, then maybe you should not purchase the timeshare in the first place.


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## bankr63

ElectricCobraYoga said:


> Hi Bill
> This is a very informative thread. I'm in Canada. Do you know any resources I could look up regarding them reporting on my Canadian Equifax?
> Tamara
> PS same person


Highly unlikely that they could hit your credit bureau in any way.  Equifax and Transunion in Canada allow reporting from partners that are associated with them; it is unlikely that your Mexican financing company would be.  They also report registered PPSA's (personal property security act - aka liens), but it would have to have been registered when you purchased and you would know as the debtor gets a letter from the government indicating that the PPSA has been registered.  AFAIK, loan collection companies in Canada cannot register a collection after the fact, the original debt would have to have already been reporting.  It actually shows the write-off when transferred to collections and STOPS reporting when the original debt written off to collections.  Note that this is for Loans and Mortgages.  If you are only paying for a "vacation club fee" or are into the maintenance fee only stage it would not qualify to report on your bureau at all.

You can request a free copy of your credit report to see if the debt has ever been reported on your bureau.


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## amanda008

i dont usually buy this ideas but its so real ,i have unwanted collections ,late payments , tax liens and of course charged off accounts , i have tried many means to get my profile back and have my score up excellently ,it happened just like magic when INSERTRANDOMSCAMMERNAMEHERE fixed my credit profile in few days , he removed all unwanted collections, late payments ,tax lien and increased my credit score from 416 to 806 .i don't believe at first until it all happened . ever since then i have been having a perfect credit profile.


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## petenjen

Yeah, another POS spammer...


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## T-Dot-Traveller

Bump - good read / (not a lot else to do at home these days but read & watch TV)


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## zephyr555

Jim in Cancun said:


> The simple answer is "YES."
> Of course it depends on the individual resort and its policies but, as mentioned, the U.S. collection companis WILL report you to the credit bureau.



Yes, this happened to us. Short story, we were lied to at Puerto Gardens, bought a TS April 2019, & put down a hefty down payment before coming home and discovering that nothing was as promised. We never made another payment, and they recently reported us to Monterey Financials in CA, a collection agency (& attorneys). They in turn reported us to TransUnion. We are at our wits end on what to do. Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated.


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## zephyr555

Karen G said:


> The standard response to people who inquire about defaulting on a Mexican timeshare purchase is that it will affect one's credit rating.  Does anyone have any real actual experience of that happening?  Has anyone simply stopped paying either their maintenance fees (if their timeshare is already paid for) or stopped making payments on a loan for the purchase of the timeshare?  What happened?



YES it happened to us, see my reply in thread below.


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## T-Dot-Traveller

zephyr555 said:


> Yes, this happened to us. Short story, we were lied to at Puerto Gardens, bought a TS April 2019,........................they recently reported us to Monterey Financials in CA, a collection agency (& attorneys). They in turn reported us to TransUnion. We are at our wits end on what to do. Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated.



Hi zephyr 555,
Thank you for letting the TUG community know .

I believe you can dispute a report to Trans Union 
 I would start that process and once you have reached a real person I would forward the entire TUG transcript of both Vallarta Garden Threads . 

It sounds like there is no loan - just a down payment you have accepted as a loss 
so the information in this thread should help in your discussion with Trans Union .

the collection agency - Monterey Financial may just be one of those bottom feeders that buys “debt”
for pennies on the dollar . Reporting you to Trans Union is probably just another pressure tactic to harrass
you into giving them some money .


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## zephyr555

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Hi zephyr 555,
> Thank you for letting the TUG community know .
> 
> I believe you can dispute a report to Trans Union
> I would start that process and once you have reached a real person I would forward the entire TUG transcript of both Vallarta Garden Threads .
> 
> It sounds like there is no loan - just a down payment you have accepted as a loss
> so the information in this thread should help in your discussion with Trans Union .
> 
> the collection agency - Monterey Financial may just be one of those bottom feeders that buys “debt”
> for pennies on the dollar . Reporting you to Trans Union is probably just another pressure tactic to harrass
> you into giving them some money .



Thank you so much. Sounds like a plan. I’ll let you know how it goes!


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## easyrider

zephyr555 said:


> Yes, this happened to us. Short story, we were lied to at Puerto Gardens, bought a TS April 2019, & put down a hefty down payment before coming home and discovering that nothing was as promised. We never made another payment, and they recently reported us to Monterey Financials in CA, a collection agency (& attorneys). They in turn reported us to TransUnion. We are at our wits end on what to do. Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated.



The way this happens is if you used a line of credit from the USA making the loan enforceable in the USA. If it was a Mexican line of credit that financed your purchase it would not follow you to the USA. The other way this happens is when an USA based debt collector buys the debt and is able to get you to sign a new payment agreement. 

Bill


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## zephyr555

easyrider said:


> The way this happens is if you used a line of credit from the USA making the loan enforceable in the USA. If it was a Mexican line of credit that financed your purchase it would not follow you to the USA. The other way this happens is when an USA based debt collector buys the debt and is able to get you to sign a new payment agreement.
> 
> Bill



OH.... well we certainly didn’t sign a new agreement with this US collection agency. Good to know.... hmm. How do we find out if the debt was indeed sold? (also: correction, I meant to say Vallarta Gardens)
Thanks so much for your input!


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## T-Dot-Traveller

zephyr555 said:


> ... hmm. How do we find out if the debt was indeed sold?



I believe this is how it works .( Specifically & in general ) especially when it comes to a “debt” like this:
(ie) harassment vulture debt collectors - bottom feeders .

1) Vallarta Gardens decides you will not pay / probably because you told them to go pound sand .
2) They sell the debt for pennies to a bottom feeder - probably as a package with many other similar “debts”
[Vallarta Gardens likely expects no further “income “ ]

sometimes the smart people who refuse to pay this  “debt” - will get a new call - months or even years later-from a different collection agency - who again bought a package for fewer pennies .

As easyrider said - if you engage with Monterey F. & sign an agreement - so they stop the harassment - they win .
IMO- contact Trans Union.


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## zephyr555

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> I believe this is how it works .( Specifically & in general ) especially when it comes to a “debt” like this:
> (ie) harassment vulture debt collectors - bottom feeders .
> 
> 1) Vallarta Gardens decides you will not pay / probably because you told them to go pound sand .
> 2) They sell the debt for pennies to a bottom feeder - probably as a package with many other similar “debts”
> [Vallarta Gardens likely expects no further “income “ ]
> 
> sometimes the smart people who refuse to pay this  “debt” - will get a new call - months or even years later-from a different collection agency - who again bought a package for fewer pennies .
> 
> As easyrider said - if you engage with Monterey F. & sign an agreement - so they stop the harassment - they win .
> IMO- contact Trans Union.



we spoke once with someone at TransUnion who didn’t seem to know much. We’ve filed a dispute with them about the Vallarta Gardens (now Monterey Financial) “debt” will call again. Hopefully we can get further with the next person. I’m asumming that if we explain the lies and also show what others have been through with them that TransUnion will take it off? Also the fact That the purchase was in Mexico, but that may be a mute point now that they have evidently completely sold the “debt” to a US collection agency (Monterey Financial). I bet you’re right that MF bought a chunk of VG TS “debt”, because when we tried to tell them everything  that happened, they were like , “ho hum“
Thank you so much for your support and input! (Can’t believe we fell for their BS) what a nightmare.


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## easyrider

zephyr555 said:


> we spoke once with someone at TransUnion who didn’t seem to know much. We’ve filed a dispute with them about the Vallarta Gardens (now Monterey Financial) “debt” will call again. Hopefully we can get further with the next person. I’m asumming that if we explain the lies and also show what others have been through with them that TransUnion will take it off? Also the fact That the purchase was in Mexico, but that may be a mute point now that they have evidently completely sold the “debt” to a US collection agency (Monterey Financial). I bet you’re right that MF bought a chunk of VG TS “debt”, because when we tried to tell them everything  that happened, they were like , “ho hum“
> Thank you so much for your support and input! (Can’t believe we fell for their BS) what a nightmare.



How the selling of debt works is a debt collection company ends up with the delinquent account, usually for very little. Regarding Internation debt, the only way it becomes enforcable is when a collection agency makes a deal with the debtor. That promisory note signed in the USA is now enforcable.

If it is debt that enforcable then that debt can be taken to court to get a judgement. To get a judgement in court the debt collector must prove your account is delinquent. International debt is not able, for the most part , to be processed in the USA. The credit reporting agencies in the USA do not report on any credit lines that do not originate from the USA without a judgement. 

So basically, if Transunion shows you having a collection, you must have used your own credit line to purchase the timeshare. When you stop paying on your own credit line, that you used to purchase a timeshare in Mexico, then collection will happen. When you stop paying on a promisory note from a Mexican resort, nothing happens in the USA, except the posibility of phone calls or threats to your credit.

Bill


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## pvacay

I quit paying for a timeshare in Mexico.  Now a US collection company named Monterrey has definitely hit my credit and reports EVERY month with the new interest amount.  Anyone have any good information on how to fight this since supposedly this shouldn't happen.  I have disputed it and just keeps getting tossed back as debt. However, this is unsecured debt that originated in Mexico and is not supposed to be reported in the US????


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## zephyr555

pvacay said:


> I quit paying for a timeshare in Mexico.  Now a US collection company named Monterrey has definitely hit my credit and reports EVERY month with the new interest amount.  Anyone have any good information on how to fight this since supposedly this shouldn't happen.  I have disputed it and just keeps getting tossed back as debt. However, this is unsecured debt that originated in Mexico and is not supposed to be reported in the US????



Hi, the EXACT same thing happened to us. Vallarta Gardens have been horrible - from a high pressure sales pitch full of lies, to a debt which we refused to pay after finding out we could not trade these weeks for ANY weeks anywhere, much less one week for four, like they claimed! We gave them a big chunk for a down payment and have since never made a payment after figuring out they were scam artists. They reported us to Monterey credit collections in Ca US. We called a lawyer who told us to ignore it, that yes, it WILL ding our credit (grrr), but it would never win in court, Because it was a sale in Mexico. He said it would not be worth their time or money to bring it to court.Meanwhile we disputed the charges with Monterey Collections and credit reporting agencies, And federal consumer agency, but to no avail. So we are going by our lawyers advice and just ignoring them. This is not something that sits well with us, however, but it is what it is, it seems.


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## easyrider

zephyr555 said:


> Hi, the EXACT same thing happened to us. Vallarta Gardens have been horrible - from a high pressure sales pitch full of lies, to a debt which we refused to pay after finding out we could not trade these weeks for ANY weeks anywhere, much less one week for four, like they claimed! We gave them a big chunk for a down payment and have since never made a payment after figuring out they were scam artists. They reported us to Monterey credit collections in Ca US. We called a lawyer who told us to ignore it, that yes, it WILL ding our credit (grrr), but it would never win in court, Because it was a sale in Mexico. He said it would not be worth their time or money to bring it to court.Meanwhile we disputed the charges with Monterey Collections and credit reporting agencies, And federal consumer agency, but to no avail. So we are going by our lawyers advice and just ignoring them. This is not something that sits well with us, however, but it is what it is, it seems.



Maybe have your attorney sue the collection agency.


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## dioxide45

Is it possible that these loans used to purchase the timeshares were actually from a US based company written on US based notes? Sure it was for a Mexican timeshare, but a US company could have still lent the money for the purchase.


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## zephyr555

easyrider said:


> Maybe have your attorney sue the collection agency.


That’s a thought! I’ll keep that in my back pocket  However at this point, even though it’s listed in our report as delinquent, our credit rating hasn’t gone down. If we start seeing trouble there, we will bring in the big “guns”. Won’t be cheap, tho, so trying to avoid that.


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## Guy_Larue

Hi,

Longtime reader- first time member. Wish I had seen this website 10 years ago when I purchased our RTU timeshare in Cabo.

I can speak to that- I have a timeshare that I purchased 10 years ago- had a loan- made all the payments and now 'own' it outright. My story is typical- I've paid the MF every year since I purchased it- the MF has gone up from $680 to $960 as of 2020. I have never used it- the few times I tried to book- I realized that it wasn't as easy as they had made it sound in the presentation. It is a floating week in Red Season.

In any case- I made a decision last year to stop throwing $ at it- I didn't pay the MF (due January 31st, 2019)- received a notice every month with the 10% late fee tacked on- very little contact from the resort other than the letters.

Had a few calls from various real estate companies offering to sell the timeshare- ignored those.

I looked into transferring/selling the TS- but the resort has an exorbitant transfer fee to make it prohibitive to dump it on the resale market- where it isn't worth much anyway.

Received a phone call from the resort in the spring of 2020- asking for payment of late MF and the one due in 2020. I asked if I could surrender the contract and was told that that I could for $1800 US and the past due maintenance fee.

I declined.

So- now it has gone to a collection agency in California- Monterey Financial.

They've called a bunch of times and sent some emails.

Not sure if they will hit my credit- but based on my research- it seems very difficult/impossible to collect from a Canadian citizen in my jurisdiction- as they need to be licensed in my area to collect.

Any advice?

Thank you.


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## dioxide45

Guy_Larue said:


> Any advice?


Continue to ignore them.


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## Guy_Larue

dioxide45 said:


> Continue to ignore them.



Thank you for the quick reply.

So- would you acknowledge the debt? Or tell them that you dispute it? The reason I ask is the statute of limitations in my area is limited- 2 years from the date of last payment- so it looks like the debt may be time barred (still owe it- but limited means for them to collect as they won't get a judgement in my jurisdiction based on the statute of limitations being over).

I can certainly continue to ignore them- that isn't a problem.


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## Passepartout

Guy_Larue said:


> I can certainly continue to ignore them- that isn't a problem.


A TUGger, @Grammarhero tracks these things and of the half dozen or so Canadians who've reported back that they defaulted, none had their credit dinged. As I said in another thread, they're all bark and no bite. Sometimes though, they bark pretty loud.

Jim


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## Grammarhero

Guy_Larue said:


> Thank you for the quick reply.
> 
> So- would you acknowledge the debt? Or tell them that you dispute it? The reason I ask is the statute of limitations in my area is limited- 2 years from the date of last payment- so it looks like the debt may be time barred (still owe it- but limited means for them to collect as they won't get a judgement in my jurisdiction based on the statute of limitations being over).
> 
> I can certainly continue to ignore them- that isn't a problem.


@Guy_Larue 
out of 8 TS defaults by Canadians reported on TUG, 0 got reported to the Canadian credit agencies. Check out the links below. One Canadian MF defaulter was told to me in confidence, so I cannot reveal that. 

If you make the hard decision to default, mind telling us if your credit got affected? It would help tuggers in similar situations moving forward.


https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/a...fees-what-happened.296893/page-7#post-2396547

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/canadian-with-a-timeshare-in-florida.298837/#post-2367946

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/a...fees-what-happened.296893/page-3#post-2352822


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## Guy_Larue

Of course. I'd be happy to. One of the most irritating things about this particular resort is that when I had a loan on it (2014 with a couple of years to go) is that they increased my loan amount by $400 due to a Mexican VAT increase- so in my opinion that broke our contract at that point- but I continued to pay as I pay all of my bills.

Still a little worried about the annoying calls, etc- but they only have a few more months based on the statute of limitations in my part of the country from when I last paid them/the MF debt was defaulted- so waiting until then to fight back as I don't want acknowledge the debt and have the clock reset on the debt.


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## bjones9942

Guy_Larue said:


> ... Still a little worried about the annoying calls, etc- but they only have a few more months based on the statute of limitations in my part of the country from when I last paid them/the MF debt was defaulted- so waiting until then to fight back as I don't want acknowledge the debt and have the clock reset on the debt.



Just an FYI - Statute of limitations has little effect on the calls you'll get from collection agencies.  In the USA, they are *supposed* to follow your direction and stop calling when you tell them you want to correspond by mail only, but they seldom do.  I had a $60 phone bill that I refused to pay because there were no cell towers for that company near my home.  Every time I called to complain (while I was a customer), they would tell me a new tower was going up 'next month'.  Next month never came.  They weren't providing the service I'd contracted for so I decided to take a stand.  The amount quickly grew to over $600.  I declined to pay the $600+, and they declined to adjust the amount.   I also never acknowledged owing anything.  This was about 15 years ago.  Statute of limitations has long since applied, but my 'debt' keeps getting resold and the new collection companies always make a series of calls threatening to take me to court.  It's also long since rolled off of my credit report, and when it was on I disputed it with the reporting agencies.  Bottom line is you'll likely get calls until you pay or you die.


----------

