# Rental Scam Warnings - do NOT send money to brand new registered users via zelle or any other non refundable platform etc



## TUGBrian

Please stop sending money via zelle or any other form of non refundable payment option to new registered users offering wildly discounted vacations.

it takes very little time to do even the most basic verification of an ownership to weed these scams out, please take that time before sending any money.











						How to Verify if a Timeshare Rental is Legitimate
					

A checklist and advice on how to verify a Timeshare rental is legitimate and avoid scams



					tug2.net


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## AwayWeGo

I am under the impression that the banks offering Zelle money transfer make a point of telling customers to use Zelle service only for sending payments to known friends & associates & family members & never to strangers.

By me, strangers include anybody you don't already know who's renting out a timeshare, so don't send'm any money via Zelle.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## TUGBrian

its very similar to folks requesting the paypal "friends and family" option, which also prevents any chance of a refund or fraud protection.


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## callwill

TUGBrian said:


> Please stop sending money via zelle or any other form of non refundable payment option to new registered users offering wildly discounted vacations.
> 
> it takes very little time to do even the most basic verification of an ownership to weed these scams out, please take that time before sending any money.
> 
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> How to Verify if a Timeshare Rental is Legitimate
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> A checklist and advice on how to verify a Timeshare rental is legitimate and avoid scams
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> tug2.net


I have also read that in disputed transactions with Zelle and at least one other maybe cashap or venmo, the app blames the bank and user and the bank blames the app meanwhile your money has vaporized.  I was recently saved from such a transaction on facebook marketplace because the seller, who had "stolen" an account did not have himself quite properly set up to accept payments via Zelle. In the meantime FB stepped in and shut down the account.  Then the "criminal" contacted me via text (connected to my Zelle) stating he needed to send back the money so i could resend it to his proper account. By then it was too late for him and he hadnt realized it.  I had got my money back.  From that point forward i wont use anything but paypal and only if they are registered to accept the payments in a way that purchase is "protected".


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## Normita

This is from PayPal's site:
*Ineligible items and transactions*
The following items or transactions *are not* eligible for PayPal’s Purchase Protection program:


Real estate, including residential property

Does this include timeshare rentals?  Do you know if anyone has ever tried to get a refund for timeshare rental?


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## gatlinburgcabin

Normita said:


> This is from PayPal's site:
> *Ineligible items and transactions*
> The following items or transactions *are not* eligible for PayPal’s Purchase Protection program:
> 
> 
> Real estate, including residential property
> 
> Does this include timeshare rentals?  Do you know if anyone has ever tried to get a refund for timeshare rental?


I will chime in with my experience with PayPal (haven't ever used Venmo or Zelle). It is tough to win a case with PayPal. I've had 2 times over the past 5 years of buying something from a vendor and both times they disputed my account and won. I am very hesitant to use them anymore. NOT REALLY ANY GOOD OPTIONS. By the way, my credit card has ALWAYS stood by me. Interested to hear other comments, especially if they pertain to timeshare payments as stated above?


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## AwayWeGo

Normita said:


> Does this include timeshare rentals?


Timeshares for rent are residential real estate property, but rentals are not purchases (although they are transactions). 

To stay on the safe side, I would assume that timeshare rentals are not covered. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## csxjohn

Normita said:


> This is from PayPal's site:
> *Ineligible items and transactions*
> The following items or transactions *are not* eligible for PayPal’s Purchase Protection program:
> 
> 
> Real estate, including residential property
> 
> Does this include timeshare rentals?  Do you know if anyone has ever tried to get a refund for timeshare rental?


For some time PayPal specifically forbid "timeshare transactions."  I can no longer find that wording in their terms of use.  I haven't look in a while, is the real estate wording still in there?

I am an admin for a couple FaceBook groups and I have read recently in those groups that PayPay did protect them on timeshare rentals, they did use the invoice method, not the Friends & Family which give no recourse.  When I read those accounts I went to the book mark where I had the wording and it was no longer there.  I searched for quite a while and could not find any wording specifically saying anything about timeshares.


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## HtownRose

I clicked on the link "Rental Scam Warnings!  It takes very little time and effort to verify a Timeshare Rental, here are some tips on how to do that before sending money!" - are there any tips other than don't use paypal & zelle?


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## TUGBrian

the link is full of suggestions:









						How to Verify if a Timeshare Rental is Legitimate
					

A checklist and advice on how to verify a Timeshare rental is legitimate and avoid scams



					tug2.net
				




failing to do any of them will put you at the most risk, regardless of what payment method you wish to use.


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## exyeh

I have a couple of times that I purchased the timeshare points and it turned out it was not what we agreed on, I complained to paypal in vain. I claimed to my credit card company and won. It will take some time and effort to prove that I am right, but it will get my money back every time.


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## lockewong

gatlinburgcabin said:


> I will chime in with my experience with PayPal (haven't ever used Venmo or Zelle). It is tough to win a case with PayPal. I've had 2 times over the past 5 years of buying something from a vendor and both times they disputed my account and won. I am very hesitant to use them anymore. NOT REALLY ANY GOOD OPTIONS. By the way, my credit card has ALWAYS stood by me. Interested to hear other comments, especially if they pertain to timeshare payments as stated above?


I have had a terrible experience with PayPal when I was hacked four years ago.  I asked them many times to shut my account down.  The bank, Citibank Fraud team, had found the person on the East Coast and they refused to refund my money.  The bank did; but I will never use PayPal again.  A banker who assisted me during the 18 months of fraudulent hacking cautioned me to never use PayPal for anything.  I eventually shut down my checking account.  The amounts were inconspicuous; $211.87; $159.31 etc.  Over holidays like Thanksgiving when it was hard to conduct bank business.  Credit cards are fine by me, too.


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## xzhan02

Is check any more secure than Paypal or Zelle?


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## jules54

Reasoning behind me asking for PayPal payment to friends is to say the renter 3% fee. I also accept Venmo payments. I think with my extensive history on Tug renters can check me out. Sometimes I tell folks to Google my name and see what turns up.


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## xzhan02

I'm in the process of renting Hawaii for Christmas. It's a lot of money.  One week I booked using RedWeek's verified and protected, paid by credit card (with 6% fee), so I felt good about it.  The 2nd week I had an offer from a TUG MarketPlace ad, but he eventually said WKORV 2br could be split into two 1 br units, obviously a lie. I am dealing with another owner on Redweek, who has intimate knowledge of a resort and I have had very good and honest (I think) interaction.  After seeing the reservation in their name, shall I pay via check or PayPal?  Would the PayPal credit card option (with a fee) be safer? Alternatively, would it be worthwhile to ask owner to enroll in RedWeek's online payment, so I could pay with credit card (for a service fee)?


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## DeniseM

Many Legit owners are not going to enroll in Redweek's rental services, and pay their fees - they control the money until after the rental, and that is a no-go in my book. Paying with a credit card on PayPal is one of the more secure methods, because if you get scammed, you can dispute the credit card payment. You don't have to get PayPal's approval, either.

Read This:








						How to Verify if a Timeshare Rental is Legitimate
					

A checklist and advice on how to verify a Timeshare rental is legitimate and avoid scams



					tug2.net


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> Many Legit owners are not going to enroll in Redweek's rental services, and pay their fees - they control the money until after the rental, and that is a no-go in my book. Paying with a credit card on PayPal is one of the more secure methods, because if you get scammed, you can dispute the credit card payment. You don't have to get PayPal's approval, either.
> 
> Read This:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Verify if a Timeshare Rental is Legitimate
> 
> 
> A checklist and advice on how to verify a Timeshare rental is legitimate and avoid scams
> 
> 
> 
> tug2.net



I have used the RedWeek service 3 times (for WKV) - no issue other than waiting for payment (which I don’t care about).
Saved me tons of hassle dealing with Renters directly (rental agreement, getting paid, dealing with PayPal, etc)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM

Dave - That may be, but Redweek gives refunds without even notifying the owner, regardless of the rental terms between the owner and renter, and I'm not OK with that. YMMV


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## xzhan02

Thanks for your insight from Owner's prospective regarding Redweek's payment.  I will consider using PayPal credit card. The only thing is the stay will be 6 months away. By then credit card dispute period will be over.  I will certainly ask for a resort confirmation letter in our name after paying, and call the resort to confirm, but couldn't a dishonest owner change the names later? 

I know I am being a bit paranoid, as this this is a large sum of money, and it'd be almost impossible to find last minute rental for Christmas on Maui if something goes wrong.


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## xzhan02

Denise,  just noticed I joined TUG one day after you in 2005.  Of course, I haven't been active for a few years (and timeshare in general) after we moved.  I can't figure out how to change location in Tug profile.


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## DeniseM

xzhan02 - Read the article below - if you follow these instructions and still aren't comfortabel then you should not do a private rental:








						How to Verify if a Timeshare Rental is Legitimate
					

A checklist and advice on how to verify a Timeshare rental is legitimate and avoid scams



					tug2.net
				





> Thanks for your insight from Owner's prospective regarding Redweek's payment. I will consider using PayPal credit card


Not the PayPal credit card - you can use your own credit card that you already have to make the payment on PayPal.


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## xzhan02

Denise, you are right. I have to be reasonable.  I did read the article, and have followed, except asking for reference. 

I do know it's using my own credit card for PayPal.  Who pays the fee to Paypal, renter or owner? Is it around 3%?


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## Sandi Bo

I've had PayPal refund a payment AFTER someone had stayed for a week. It was an error on the renters part, they didn't recognize my name and disputed the charge. In the end I got my money.  But was so disappointed that PayPal didn't even contact me.

Personally if I were renting, and didn't know the person and had any concerns, I would use a credit card.  A PayPal invoice can be paid by paypal or a credit card. If you pay the PayPal invoice by credit card and you have a dispute you have to pick who you want to file the dispute with (you can't file with both). Personally, I'd rather deal with my credit card company. 

I take payments any way I can get them. If someone chooses paypal or a credit card, they typically pay the 3% fee (their choice). I know I am honest, I understand if they have any concerns. They can research me here on TUG or google me, see my linked in, check my criminal record?, etc. Since I've lived in my current home for over 30 years, I'm pretty easy to check out if someone takes the time. I do the same (google, FB, etc) if I have any qualms about a renter. I have a rental agreement (thanks to TUG/Timeshare Von). I've had a few who have said things like "I'm not counting the silverware" and I'm happy not to rent to someone who isn't willing to take responsibility/care of the condo they are renting.


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## Paumavista

We do a lot of rentals.....I have 3 scheduled in the next few months.....only 1 of the 3 weeks were able to take a credit card.  I think / I hope that you get a good vibe from sellers (and renters) and there is always just a level of trust.  Most people are honest and good.....I have rented a number of times here on TUG....we "talk"....email back/forth.  I always feel like I'm taking a leap of faith......

IF "joined" TUG dates are accurate......
xzhan02 & DeniseM & jules54 & Awaywego........June 2005 must have been a busy month on TUG!
Actually 2005 was pretty active......exyeh & DavidnRobin..........


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## xzhan02

Thank you Sandi for the detailed explanation of the process.  I think I will use the PayPal credit card option (pay the fee). Although by the time of the stay, the 60-90 days CC disputed period would be over, at least we can catch anything wrong in the booking stage, like confirmation from the resort.  After that, in the very unlike event that the owner changes the name, it'd still be within the PayPal dispute period of 180 days.

I googled the owner and found a match to a linkedIn profile as the attorney and VP for a large Timeshare resort. It makes sense as he is renting a lot of weeks.


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## xzhan02

Paumavista, do the owners who don't take credit card accept check only, or they can do PayPal, just not the cc option?  Thanks.

I definitely get a good vibe with the current owner I'm dealing with. Talks like a timesharer!  The other guy, not so much. I went back to check, and indeed he joined TUG recently!

I got curious about TUG and June 2005 too.  There must be some kind of website conversion then, as I found old emails from 2004 referencing TUG and trade power testing excel sheet.  Fun but not so good old days!


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## TheTimeTraveler

xzhan02 said:


> I'm in the process of renting Hawaii for Christmas. It's a lot of money.  One week I booked using RedWeek's verified and protected, paid by credit card (with 6% fee), so I felt good about it.  The 2nd week I had an offer from a TUG MarketPlace ad, but he eventually said WKORV 2br could be split into two 1 br units, obviously a lie. I am dealing with another owner on Redweek, who has intimate knowledge of a resort and I have had very good and honest (I think) interaction.  After seeing the reservation in their name, shall I pay via check or PayPal?  Would the PayPal credit card option (with a fee) be safer? Alternatively, would it be worthwhile to ask owner to enroll in RedWeek's online payment, so I could pay with credit card (for a service fee)?





Pay by check and send it via the US Postal Service.  Why?  You have the name and address of where exactly you are sending your money.

Additionally, should you be "ripped off" then you can get the US Postal Inspection Service involved.   It is considered MAIL FRAUD.   Mail Fraud is considered a serious Federal Crime when using the USPS.   Remember, you can NOT use Mail Fraud charges if using Fed Ex or UPS.  It has to be mailed via USPS to a recipient with an address in any of the 50 States.

A lot of folks won't use the mail because they are in such a hurry either to make the payment or someone needs receive the payment yesterday.  It's troublesome if someone renting will ONLY accept an electronic payment.   Remember, you usually have no idea with whom you are dealing with when making electronic payments, and it's possible your electronic payments may be going to someone in Nigeria (and you can be 100% assured someone in Nigeria doesn't own a timeshare in the USA).



.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

xzhan02 said:


> got curious about TUG and June 2005 too. There must be some kind of website conversion then,


Yes - new BBS software was installed at that time that required everyone to reregister.  The archives include some threads from the old software, but many older ones have been lost entirely.  Some of those old posts might still reside on the Wayback machine, if one wanted to spend time tracking them down.


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## xzhan02

T_R_Oglodyte, Thanks.  Mystery solved!


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## boraxo

PayPal is horrible I would never use them for anything unless absolutely necessary for a merchant (ie my photographer) and certainly not for large amounts. Check are not great - we had a scammer wash the ink off the check and fill in his own amount and a different name. The bank refunded us immediate but not always a happy ending. Credit cards are best. The reason Airbnb is successful is that the rating system helps to weed out scammers. Not sure if TUG or redweek offers a similar validation system but that is the way to go.


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## TUGBrian

Paumavista said:


> We do a lot of rentals.....I have 3 scheduled in the next few months.....only 1 of the 3 weeks were able to take a credit card.  I think / I hope that you get a good vibe from sellers (and renters) and there is always just a level of trust.  Most people are honest and good.....I have rented a number of times here on TUG....we "talk"....email back/forth.  I always feel like I'm taking a leap of faith......
> 
> IF "joined" TUG dates are accurate......
> xzhan02 & DeniseM & jules54 & Awaywego........June 2005 must have been a busy month on TUG!
> Actually 2005 was pretty active......exyeh & DavidnRobin..........


2005 is when we migrated from an older version of the forums to a new software and everyone had to re-register.

since then all upgrades and migrations have been able to keep everyones registration the same...thus why the eldest of the eld all have 2005 as registration dates!


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## T_R_Oglodyte

TUGBrian said:


> thus why the eldest of the eld all have 2005 as registration dates


Yes - I joined in September of 1999.  And I see names of a lot of people here who were active before I joined.


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## DeniseM

> Paumavista, do the owners who don't take credit card accept check only, or they can do PayPal, just not the cc option? Thanks.



A timeshare owner _does not need any special authorization_ for the renter to pay with a credit card on PayPal.  They they may tell you that you cannot pay with a credit card, because they don't want to incurr the 3% fee.  The renter may want to offer to add 3% to their payment, so they can pay with a credit card.

I would not send a check - that gives you almost no protection, and trying to file mail fraud charges against someone would be an ordeal.


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## DeniseM

TheTimeTraveler said:


> Pay by check and send it via the US Postal Service. Why? You have the name and address of where exactly you are sending your money.
> 
> Additionally, should you be "ripped off" then you can get the US Postal Inspection Service involved. It is considered MAIL FRAUD. Mail Fraud is considered a serious Federal Crime when using the USPS. Remember, you can NOT use Mail Fraud charges if using Fed Ex or UPS. It has to be mailed via USPS to a recipient with an address in any of the 50 States.



Curious - how  many times have you personally charged someone with mail fraud, and won, as described in your post?


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## TheTimeTraveler

DeniseM said:


> Curious - how  many times have you personally charged someone with mail fraud, and won, as described in your post?




No me personally, but I know someone who purchased something out of State by mail and seller did not send item.  She called the Postal Service about it and they contacted the Inspection Service.

Inspection Service read them the riot act and told them to perform or refund immediately, and she received her money back.

Google "USPS Mail Fraud" to read the statue.


.


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## pauljeffrey10

DeniseM said:


> Many Legit owners are not going to enroll in Redweek's rental services, and pay their fees - they control the money until after the rental, and that is a no-go in my book. Paying with a credit card on PayPal is one of the more secure methods, because if you get scammed, you can dispute the credit card payment. You don't have to get PayPal's approval, either.
> 
> Read This:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Verify if a Timeshare Rental is Legitimate
> 
> 
> A checklist and advice on how to verify a Timeshare rental is legitimate and avoid scams
> 
> 
> 
> tug2.net


I have rented my units via Redweek.com many times and have never been disappointed. The rentals are verified, all transactions are safe. The Redweek fees are so minimal compared to the value of the rental. Well worth every penny.


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## DeniseM

I'm glad your friend had a good experience, but it sounds like it was a tangible item and not a timeshare rental - which by the very name "timeshare" causes many to be suspicious. And it doesn't sound like they were dealing with a scam organization, which might not even be in the US.  With scam rentals, you don't have to worry about real timeshare owners. The majority of intentional scammers don't even own a timeshare and they make a living renting fake reservations. I will take my chances with a credit card.


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## Normita

It seems that all the posts are from the point of view that the renter may be scammed by the (supposed) timeshare owner.  What about the other way around? Has any of you ever had a renter's cheque bounce and it's too late to get your points, reservation fees or whatever back?  Or when you have accepted a small deposit, ordered the guest confirmation and the rest of the payment doesn't come?  With Wyndham you have up to 15 days ahead to get your points back but you still lose the guest confirmation or fee, but with many of the other companies, at less than 60 days ahead, your points/options become restricted and much harder to use or they are lost.  What protection can you suggest for the owner?
Last minute rentals are also a problem:  there is no time for cheques to arrive or for references either way.  I direct renters to my website and they usually realize that I am not running off with their money, but what about the renters?  I suppose the solution is not to do last minute rentals?


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## gatlinburgcabin

Normita said:


> It seems that all the posts are from the point of view that the renter may be scammed by the (supposed) timeshare owner.  What about the other way around? Has any of you ever had a renter's cheque bounce and it's too late to get your points, reservation fees or whatever back?  Or when you have accepted a small deposit, ordered the guest confirmation and the rest of the payment doesn't come?  With Wyndham you have up to 15 days ahead to get your points back but you still lose the guest confirmation or fee, but with many of the other companies, at less than 60 days ahead, your points/options become restricted and much harder to use or they are lost.  What protection can you suggest for the owner?
> Last minute rentals are also a problem:  there is no time for cheques to arrive or for references either way.  I direct renters to my website and they usually realize that I am not running off with their money, but what about the renters?  I suppose the solution is not to do last minute rentals?


I think the OP was about using PayPal, not last minute rentals? Obviously any transaction online has risk to buyer and seller. I have rented many times last minutes here on TUG, as well as renting my own week I couldn't use. I love this forum, because I feel like people familiar with timeshares are easier to work with. I maybe do have a false sense of security on who is selling the week, I appreciate this post to keep me on my toes.

 My point is IF you use PayPal, do not use the payment via your bank account. On the occasion I have had trouble with a purchase, THEY ALWAYS SIDED WITH THE SELLER. I had to go to my credit card company to which they sided with me. Just as background, twice the item never arrived or arrived so late from China, couldn't use. PayPal drug their feet for 3 months, HAD to go to cc company.


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> Dave - That may be, but Redweek gives refunds without even notifying the owner, regardless of the rental terms between the owner and renter, and I'm not OK with that. YMMV



Interesting - what are the details on what happened? My transactions have been seamless (so far). Seems to me that ads with these services rent more often (by their metric of course)
Happy 4th - Go Giants!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM

It was a huge deal on TUG: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/redweek-holding-all-payments-regardless.302908/


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> It was a huge deal on TUG: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/redweek-holding-all-payments-regardless.302908/



Thanks - I missed this. 
TBH, I dropped off TUG for a while because of (unscientific) opinions regarding Covid that TUG was allowing. As a Scientist (in the field) - it was just too much rampant BS by some posters (still going on I suspect) - glad it was moved to a single thread to spew their misinformation. Now, I just stay out of it.
Can’t reason with unreasonable people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM

YES: It's so much better keeping all the problem children in in-school suspension!  _(It was my idea, too!)_


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## dioxide45

A lot of people don't think of this, but Square is another option that owners can use to take payments.


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## TUGBrian

using a USPS postal money order used to be a solid way to have the backing of the US post office if you were defrauded etc at least in tracking down who signed for the money order and who cashed it and where etc  etc.  I am not sure if you are still granted those same benefits today however, or even if they still offer such an item?


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## AwayWeGo

We recently got some USPS money orders for paying tax debts (not ours) out of state.  (Helping sick friend who since passed away.  R.I.P.)  

USPS money orders were cheaper than cashier checks or bank money orders, also cheaper than supermarket or convenience store money orders.  

Got cash at the bank, then used the cash to get money orders at the Post Office.  

Quick & easy. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Marathoner

I tell my relatives (they do not own any timeshares) to book only "Verified & Protected" on Redweek so that they don't get into a fraud situation when they go on a vacation in a timeshare week.  I don't want to feel guilty for having introduced them to Redweek if they ever deal with a fraudster.

That said, as a timeshare owner, I don't rent out my weeks using "Verified & Protected" on Redweek for similar reasons as others here.  It does mean that I won't be renting out my weeks to people like my relatives who need reassurance but there are plenty of other renters who appreciate the price savings.

One person asked my for my LinkedIn profile so that he can connect with me on LinkedIn before he sent me money for the rental.  I thought that was effective because LinkedIn usage is quite widespread in the corporate world and he could then see my current place of employment and work history as I could for his work details after we connected in LinkedIn.  Knowing someone's real name and workplace on LinkedIn is a high predictor of reliability, in my view.


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## Coach Boon

gatlinburgcabin said:


> I will chime in with my experience with PayPal (haven't ever used Venmo or Zelle). It is tough to win a case with PayPal. I've had 2 times over the past 5 years of buying something from a vendor and both times they disputed my account and won. I am very hesitant to use them anymore. NOT REALLY ANY GOOD OPTIONS. By the way, my credit card has ALWAYS stood by me. Interested to hear other comments, especially if they pertain to timeshare payments as stated above?


I'm not a fan of Paypal either as I too have had a few minor issues. I still use them on occasion for small transactions. You do have to be careful as scammers will use Paypal to obtain goods and not pay you. I had an interested car buyer and he wanted to use Paypal as the method saying it was secure and common blah blah blah. Paypal doesn't guarantee car payments either but the scammer tried nonetheless.


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## xzhan02

Thank you all.  I decided to use PayPal credit card option, after obtaining his reservation confirmation from the resort.  The owner charges additional 3%, which is fair (I get part of it back with cc points).  The owner really knows the in and out of the resorts he owns and rents many weeks on Redweek.  He provides pros and cons of the resorts, tips on touring etc and will be on the island in another resort he owns at the same time.  I really don't have any doubt about him.  

As a previous poster mentioned, I wish Redweek could provide reviews or ratings on renters and owners.  Of course, this might not work for the owners who only occasionally rent their unused weeks.


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