# MLB Playoffs 2015



## ace2000 (Oct 9, 2015)

Game on!  Nice postseason run for the Cardinals with five straight seasons.  And they're going in to the 2015 playoffs with baseball's best record.  Hoping to see another one of these this year, but I hate being greedy   ... going to the game tomorrow night!


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## Elan (Oct 9, 2015)

If the Cards are going to win it all, this would be a good year, because we all know the Giants win it in even years.  

  My pre-playoff picks were the Cubs and Jays.  But, since the Giants and Angels are absent, I've mostly turned my focus to CFB this fall and don't care much who wins the WS.  Will dial back in to baseball more when the LCS's start.


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## Ironwood (Oct 9, 2015)

Lets go Blue Jays....Let's play ball!  :whoopie:


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## DeniseM (Oct 9, 2015)

Since my Giants didn't make the playoffs, I'm rooting for the Cubs, who have the longest World Series drought in baseball.  They haven't won the WS in 106 years:

Longest World Series Droughts:



> *106 	Chicago Cubs 	1908 	1945*
> 67 	Cleveland Indians 	1948 	1997
> *54 	Texas Rangers 	never (franchise began 1961) 	2011*
> *53 	Houston Astros 	never (franchise began 1962) 	2005*
> ...



(But as long as the Yankees (eliminated) or Dodgers, don't win it, I'm happy!)


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## Blues (Oct 9, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Since my Giants didn't make the playoffs, I'm rooting for the Cubs, who have the longest World Series drought in baseball.  They haven't won the WS in 106 years



I grew up in Chicago, watching the Cubbies.  1969 was my senior year of high school.  My friends and I would periodically ditch school to watch their amazing run.

They broke my heart that year.  I have not followed MLB since then.  It was that bad.  I wish them luck this year, but will not be emotionally invested again.

A few (6?) years back, some pundit posited the following.  Suppose you could travel back in time to 1909.  What odds do you think you could get on a bet that a black man would be elected President before the Cubs win the World Series?  A funny but sad comment 

Bob


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## susieq (Oct 9, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> (But as long as the *Yankees* (eliminated) or Dodgers, don't win it, I'm happy!)



Me too!!!


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## falmouth3 (Oct 9, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> S
> (But as long as the Yankees (eliminated) or Dodgers, don't win it, I'm happy!)



Sounds like my father.  He was a die hard Brooklyn Dodgers fan and never forgave them for moving.  When I was growing up, before the Mets were born, my father would watch the Yankees on TV but we always rooted for the other team.


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## moonstone (Oct 9, 2015)

Ironwood said:


> Lets go Blue Jays....Let's play ball!  :whoopie:



A nail biter so far!  Lets GO Blue Jays!

~Diane


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## am1 (Oct 9, 2015)

Let's Go Blue Jays.  A few bad plays, calls and bounces.


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## falmouth3 (Oct 9, 2015)

I'm hoping for a Blue Jays/Cubs world series.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 9, 2015)

*jays lose*

looking like the Al could end up all Texas The crying you heard in Canada was coast to Coast . Must win 3 in a row now 

Go Cardinals - my home from 1978 - 1990
Best baseball town in the world


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## dioxide45 (Oct 9, 2015)

I am more of a bandwagon Jays fan these days. Since moving to the US and working full time and traveling, I don't have as much time to watch baseball. I follow them loosely throughout the year along with the local Cincinnati Reds. Most years there isn't much to follow. This year the Jays went big and it might just be to go home.

I had a bad feeling about their chances in the playoffs when they lost four of their last five. They are now down two games going to Texas. Of course, as the Reds know, a team can lose after being up two games after playing on the road after they lost three in a row. The Giants did it to them a few years ago. I don't think the Jays are the kind of team to do that though. Today they weren't playing for runs at the end, they seemed to be playing for home runs. You can't win a lot of baseball games playing those odds.

If the Jays end up going down this season, I will go back to watching YouTube videos of Joe Carter's three run home run in 1993. It was great, and it may seem sad 22 years later, but it will be all we still have as a Jays fan for at least another year. One of the greatest World Series moments of all time. Only two people can say they hit a home run to win the World Series.

I saw an interesting list of the 10 teams (similar to Denise's) in the playoffs this year and when they last won the World Series. Blue Jays were third on that behind the Cardinals and the Yankees. Now the Yankees are out, so only the Cardinals have won in the last two decades.

If my team isn't in it till the end, I will probably root for The Rangers, Astros or Cubs. No one knows misery like these three teams. The two in Texas have no World Series Championship and well the Cubs, they might as well not. Just about no one alive remembers the last time they won the World Series.


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## Carol C (Oct 11, 2015)

*Gooo Cubbies!*

Since my beloved Pirates didn't make it, I'm now rooting for the Cubs. Last night's game was great...a 6-3 Cubs win after they got shut out the day before. It's a good post season thus far...go Cubbies!!!!


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## am1 (Oct 11, 2015)

Will there be anyone still cheering for the Dodgers after last night?  There is no place for that in sports.  You should be attempting to slide into second base and not tackle the player away from the base.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 11, 2015)

am1 said:


> Will there be anyone still cheering for the Dodgers after last night?  There is no place for that in sports.  You should be attempting to slide into second base and not tackle the player away from the base.



I agree, something needs to be done about attempts to break up the double play. Though it can go both ways, Donaldson of the Jays was pulled from the game after he tried to break up a double play and got a knee to the head.


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2015)

The "neighborhood play," rule at 2nd base has completely convoluted plays/calls at 2nd base.  

Last night, Utley never got near 2nd base - not even close, but after sliding really wide to take out the short-stop, and breaking his leg in the process, he was declared safe, and went on to score.

It's simply asinine!


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## am1 (Oct 11, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I agree, something needs to be done about attempts to break up the double play. Though it can go both ways, Donaldson of the Jays was pulled from the game after he tried to break up a double play and got a knee to the head.



Yes, he was going for second base and thankfully was okay for game 2.


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## vacationhopeful (Oct 11, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> ....
> Last night, Utley never got near 2nd base - not even close, but after sliding really wide to take out the short-stop, and breaking his leg in the process, he was declared safe, and went on to score.
> 
> It's simply asinine!



Chase Utley has spent TOO MANY YEARS associating with the "Broad Street Bullies" .... to be an innocent player.


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## gnorth16 (Oct 11, 2015)

Back to the Future Movie predicted the Cubs to win the 2015 world series....


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2015)

Joe Torre (MLB Commissioner's Office) has just suspended Utley for 2 games of the NLDS play-offs for an illegal slide.  Good for him for having the guts to stand up and make a tough decision.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...rt-game-3-mets-harvey-slide-article-1.2393427


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## dioxide45 (Oct 11, 2015)

gnorth16 said:


> Back to the Future Movie predicted the Cubs to win the 2015 world series....



The movie also predicted we would be using hover-boards.


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> The movie also predicted we would be using hover-boards.



I don't know anything about them, but I've seen them on TV, so apparently they have been invented, but it seems to me that they would only appeal to the skateboard crowd.


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## pedro47 (Oct 12, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Joe Torre (MLB Commissioner's Office) has just suspended Utley for 2 games of the NLDS play-offs for an illegal slide.  Good for him for having the guts to stand up and make a tough decision.
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...rt-game-3-mets-harvey-slide-article-1.2393427



I agree with Joe Torre decision,  Utley wide slide was an illegal slide. Utley should be ban for the whole series not just two (2) games.


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## am1 (Oct 12, 2015)

pedro47 said:


> I agree with Joe Torre decision,  Utley wide slide was an illegal slide. Utley should be ban for the whole series not just two (2) games.



Most likely the Mets would have won the game as well.  But cannot change the past.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 12, 2015)

I suspect that the suspension will be overturned upon appeal. Utley will apparently play during the appeal. So any suspension won't be immediate. Had the short stop not been injured, there wouldn't be a suspension. Players practice on how to break up a double play. For the Mets it was unfortunate, for the Dodgers he did his job. I don't think there is ever intent to injure in these plays.

How many other plays are similar where the player does not get injured and there is no disciplinary action? The end result was unfortunate, but this seems to just be part of the game. The risk is there for both players when breaking up a double play.


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## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2015)

IMNSHO - When the runner slides into the 2nd baseman, and the runner doesn't even come close to touching the base, it should be an automatic out, and an illegal slide.

I expect to see a rules change coming - just like the change they made at home plate.


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## joewillie12 (Oct 12, 2015)

If Utley would have tackled a quarterback like that he would have got 15 yards for roughing. That was vicious dirty slide [HIT] and its about time MLB finally took notice.


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## am1 (Oct 12, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I suspect that the suspension will be overturned upon appeal. Utley will apparently play during the appeal. So any suspension won't be immediate. Had the short stop not been injured, there wouldn't be a suspension. Players practice on how to break up a double play. For the Mets it was unfortunate, for the Dodgers he did his job. I don't think there is ever intent to injure in these plays.
> 
> How many other plays are similar where the player does not get injured and there is no disciplinary action? The end result was unfortunate, but this seems to just be part of the game. The risk is there for both players when breaking up a double play.



Intent follows the bullet.  But regardless of injury I believe the suspension is warranted.  The runner should be out as well as the hitter.  It is possible it was allowed in the past but the rule makes it clear that it was an illegal "slide/tackle).  

Shame on the Dodgers for appealing it.


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## ace2000 (Oct 12, 2015)

Taking out the guy turning the double play has been around forever - all teams try to do it.  It happens and if Tejada wouldn't have got injured, nobody would be talking about it.  Utley's slide was excessive though, so he deserves the punishment.  It was a bad break for the Mets, but to a certain extent, the fielder has to know it's coming.  Should we also ban pitchers throwing faster than 90MPH?


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## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2015)

Players have "always" taken out the Catcher, too - until Buster Posey's ankle was broken and he lost a whole season - then they changed the rule.

Saying it's OK, because "they have always done it that way" is completely illogical.  

They used to let players stay in games with concussions, too - not doing that any more, either!*

We are going to see a rules change - in fact the commissioner's office even said they would be doing some testing of new rules in spring training.

*BTW - Did anyone see Pete Rose on TV this week?  "Back in my day, we stayed in the game with a compound fracture, and a concussion, they are such sissies these days!"  

Watching Pete Rose talk about the playoffs is like watching a train wreck - you don't want to look, but you can't turn away.  Honestly, his dark brown dyed hair, and hunching over in the chair, talking out of the corner of his mouth is just sad.  He needs a handler.


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## ace2000 (Oct 12, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Saying it's OK, because "they have always done it that way" is completely illogical.



Nobody said it was ok.  All I'm saying is that Utley has received a fair punishment - he will appeal - and the game will go on.  There is a lot of talk out there that there might be a rule change, but that doesn't help the Mets right now.


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## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2015)

That is not all you said - these 4 statements  were attempts to justify what happened:



> Taking out the guy turning the double play has been around forever - all teams try to do it.
> 
> It happens and if Tejada wouldn't have got injured, nobody would be talking about it.
> 
> ...


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## ace2000 (Oct 12, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> That is not all you said - these 4 statements  were attempts to justifiy what happened:



That's why it pays to read an entire post and keep it in context.  I also clearly stated that _Utley's slide was excessive though, so he deserves the punishment._

You don't think the Mets have some individuals that have ever roughly taken out an opposing player on a double play?  Nonsense.  It's been a part of baseball for years.  

It is definitely a bad break for the Mets.


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## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> That's why it pays to read an entire post and keep it in context.
> 
> You don't think the Mets have some individuals that have ever roughly taken out an opposing player on a double play?  Nonsense.  It's been a part of baseball for years.
> 
> It is definitely a bad break for the Mets.



Again - it's completely illogical to try to justify a bad thing, because bad things happened in the past.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 12, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Again - it's completely illogical to try to justify a bad thing, because bad things happened in the past.



I am not saying that there shouldn't be a rule change. It makes sense to prevent injury for both players. But with this current situation, it is really no different than all the other take out plays in the past, other than the fact that someone was injured. I see this suspension being overturned or being served in the 2016 season.


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## ace2000 (Oct 12, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Again - it's completely illogical to try to justify a bad thing, because bad things happened in the past.



Yes, we can both agree here on this very broad and general statement that has nothing to do with our current topic.


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## DeniseM (Oct 12, 2015)

IMNSHO - it was a *dirty slide*.  The fact that there have been dirty slides in the past does not justify another one.  I can't say it any clearer than that.  I'm done here.  YMMV


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 12, 2015)

Never forget...






Like this play - Utley never made attempt to go in the direction of 2nd base - he went directly at the 2nd baseman - even sliding after the 2nd base bag - as clearly seen on the video replay (F the Dodgers)

Luckily Posey's career was not over after this 'part-of-the-game' slide. Hopefully, Tejada's career will not be. I can only hope Utley's career goes the way of Cousins' career.


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## joewillie12 (Oct 12, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Taking out the guy turning the double play has been around forever - all teams try to do it.  It happens and if Tejada wouldn't have got injured, nobody would be talking about it.  Utley's slide was excessive though, so he deserves the punishment.  It was a bad break for the Mets, but to a certain extent, the fielder has to know it's coming.  Should we also ban pitchers throwing faster than 90MPH?


 But it did happen. Utley could have broke his neck with that so called slide also. Tejada has been taken out with plenty slides before just like all middle infielders but I don't believe they think of getting pelted blind sided behind the bag at full speed. That slide has to be eliminated from baseball. Even hockey has eliminated the hit from behind. 
If a batter has to face a 90mph fastball with his eyes close then a vote for a ban.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 12, 2015)

A rule change that will prevent this is to allow the base runner to run through second base only if forced to second on a hit. Then you will just have standing collisions.


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## billymach4 (Oct 12, 2015)

Tonight the Mets are giving the Dodgers what they deserve!


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## billymach4 (Oct 12, 2015)

I am stuck working... While my family and friends are at the game! Why... Why..


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## billymach4 (Oct 12, 2015)

Mets 13 Dodgers 4 bottom of the 7th


Crushing the Dodgers


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## ace2000 (Oct 13, 2015)

joewillie12 said:


> But it did happen. Utley could have broke his neck with that so called slide also. Tejada has been taken out with plenty slides before just like all middle infielders but I don't believe they think of getting pelted blind sided behind the bag at full speed. *That slide has to be eliminated from baseball.* Even hockey has eliminated the hit from behind.
> If a batter has to face a 90mph fastball with his eyes close then a vote for a ban.



Yes it happened.  The umpires looked at it on replay and determined that what Utley did was within the current rules.  Then after the game and when everyone knew the extent of Tejada's injury, Torre declared that Utley did violate the rules, but said it would've been an extremely difficult call for the umpires to make.  There are plenty of experts in agreement with you about possibly changing the rules in the future.  I've heard that discussed on TV several times over the last couple of days.  

The Mets handled it properly.  They didn't whine about it and complain about the current rules.  They chose to use the incident for inspiration and for motivation, and they pounded the Dodgers last night for 13 runs.  

Kudos to the Mets.


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## pedro47 (Oct 13, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Yes it happened.  The umpires looked at it on replay and determined that what Utley did was within the current rules.  Then after the game and when everyone knew the extent of Tejada's injury, Torre declared that Utley did violate the rules, but said it would've been an extremely difficult call for the umpires to make.  There are plenty of experts in agreement with you about possibly changing the rules in the future.  I've heard that discussed on TV several times over the last couple of days.
> 
> The Mets handled it properly.  They didn't whine about it and complain about the current rules.  They chose to use the incident for inspiration and for motivation, and they pounded the Dodgers last night for 13 runs.
> 
> Kudos to the Mets.



Last night game against the Dodgers was a positive turning point for the Mets. They now have that extra incentive to whip the Dodgers. Go Mets!!!

The Mets and Cubs in the NFS.


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## joewillie12 (Oct 13, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Yes it happened.  The umpires looked at it on replay and determined that what Utley did was within the current rules.  Then after the game and when everyone knew the extent of Tejada's injury, Torre declared that Utley did violate the rules, but said it would've been an extremely difficult call for the umpires to make.  There are plenty of experts in agreement with you about possibly changing the rules in the future.  I've heard that discussed on TV several times over the last couple of days.
> 
> The Mets handled it properly.  They didn't whine about it and complain about the current rules.  They chose to use the incident for inspiration and for motivation, and they pounded the Dodgers last night for 13 runs.
> 
> Kudos to the Mets.


 I think the replay initially was to see if Tejada stepped on second and determine if the "neighborhood play" should have been called. The call for suspension came after looking at Utley crash into Tejada and the dangerous nature of it . I agree, the umps nor the replay officials had the time to dissect that aspect. 
Anyway good game from the Mets. They have the better team but LA is sending out the equalizer to pitch tonight. Should be a good one.


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## Elan (Oct 14, 2015)

Joey Bats!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## am1 (Oct 14, 2015)

*Baseball Gods*

If their is anytime to believe in baseball gods it is now.


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## moonstone (Oct 14, 2015)

Elan said:


> Joey Bats!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



OH  YA!    Yea Jays, they did it! An amazing game!

:whoopie::whoopie:

~Diane


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## am1 (Oct 14, 2015)

Yes what a memorable game.  I really dislike when a team tries to cheat and then protests it.  It ruins the sport and in this case ruined their chance of winning.  I hope they enjoy the flight back to Dallas.


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## pwrshift (Oct 14, 2015)

*Go Jays!*

Quite the game...lots of controversy.

Brian


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## Ironwood (Oct 14, 2015)

Lets go Blue Jay's!


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## dioxide45 (Oct 14, 2015)

That was a memorable seventh inning in Toronto, for sure. I wasn't able to watch it live. We were having dinner at McCormick & Schmick's for my wife's birthday. When I went to pick up the car I set the radio to ESPN Radio and could see the score was 6-3. I thought by that time that the game had to be over since we had been at dinner for so long and it was well after 7pm at this point. Little did I know what all had transpired.

We got home in time to watch the last part of the bottom of the 8th and top of the 9th. Luckily I had set the game to record with a one and a half hour extension, so I was able to go back and see how it all transpired.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 14, 2015)

am1 said:


> Yes what a memorable game.  I really dislike when a team tries to cheat and then protests it.  It ruins the sport and in this case ruined their chance of winning.  I hope they enjoy the flight back to Dallas.



I am not sure who tried to cheat? Texas? While there was confusion on the play where Martin's throw back hit Shin-Soo Choo's bat, I think Odor taking home plate was the right move. Let them sort it all out, at least they had the run. No cheating there, it was a live ball, even if Odor didn't know it he made the right play. That is a one in a million situation. The call, while correct, didn't work out for the Jays. I can understand the fans not being pleased with the call, but they don't have a rule book in front of them and I doubt there are any real explanations to the fans in the stands. If there is, it would come long after the call was finally made.

Emotions were high late in the game, the crowd was really boisterous. It was a BIG game, game 5 of a best of five. The stakes are not any higher. 

Probably also a lot of drunks and unfortunately some people tossing trash on to the field. Some tossing from the upper deck and parents in the lower level having to try to protect their kids from getting hit. I suspect similar would happen to any ballpark in MLB in a similar situation.

The announcers kept talking about beer bottles being thrown, but I failed to see one. I only saw cans. While neither is a good thing to throw, a can is not going to inflict much injury where a glass or even plastic beer bottle could. Do they even serve beer in a bottle at Rogers Center?


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## BevL (Oct 14, 2015)

The online reports were talking about water bottles being thrown.  There were, I believe, some reports of a child being struck with flying debris, but I don't know if that actually happened.

It was a weird play,  Would have been a shame if the game had ended that way - of course, while not an avid baseball fan, I'm rooting for the Jays.


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## am1 (Oct 14, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure who tried to cheat? Texas? While there was confusion on the play where Martin's throw back hit Shin-Soo Choo's bat, I think Odor taking home plate was the right move. Let them sort it all out, at least they had the run. No cheating there, it was a live ball, even if Odor didn't know it he made the right play. That is a one in a million situation. The call, while correct, didn't work out for the Jays. I can understand the fans not being pleased with the call, but they don't have a rule book in front of them and I doubt there are any real explanations to the fans in the stands. If there is, it would come long after the call was finally made.



The ball was called dead.  At that point the runner should have went back to 3rd base.  It is not worth debating if it was intentional or not at this point.  Maybe the batter was just trying to be annoying I have no idea.  I respect a coach who stands up for his players and whats right but in this case Texas should have just accepted the umpires call.  

Thankfully the Blue Jays took care of business with a little help from the Texas fielders. 

When is the Texas governor up for reelection?  I do not like his chances after his Monday tweet.


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## DeniseM (Oct 14, 2015)

The *rules* state that if the catcher hits the bat (or anything else) when throwing the ball back to the pitcher it's a live ball - just like any other _throwing error_.  

No one "cheated" - the umpire who called it a dead ball made a *mistake* calling the ball dead.


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## ace2000 (Oct 14, 2015)

For those who didn't get a chance to see the play live (like me), here is a replay of what happened, as well as other highlights at the bottom of the page.  Wow, what a game!

http://m.mlb.com/tor/video/v523068983/textor-gm5-martins-throw-hits-bat-odor-scores/?game_pk=446255


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## am1 (Oct 14, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> The *rules* state that if the catcher hits the bat (or anything else) when throwing the ball back to the pitcher it's a live ball - just like any other _throwing error_.
> 
> No one "cheated" - the umpire who called it a dead ball made a *mistake* calling the ball dead.



If it was unintentional.  It is hard to prove.  If the umpire calls the ball dead then that is what should stand.  In a case like this it is not possible to uncall a ball dead.  

So in this case the umpire made a mistake calling the ball dead and then another mistake uncalling the ball dead.


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## DeniseM (Oct 14, 2015)

am1 - That's not how it works:  Umpire's calls are over-turned ALL THE TIME when they make a bad call.  It happens in nearly every game, especially now that managers have challenges and instant replay.

Calling the ball dead was a mistake, and a bad one, and he should have known better.

But correcting it was in accordance with the rules.


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## am1 (Oct 14, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> am1 - That's not how it works:  Umpire's calls are over-turned ALL THE TIME when they make a mistake.  It happens in nearly every game, especially now that managers have challenges and instant replay.
> 
> Calling the ball dead was a mistake, and a bad one, and he should have known better.
> 
> But correcting it was in accordance with the rules.



When do the fielders get a chance to make a play on the ball after the umpire decides he made a mistake in calling the ball dead?

It is annoying in football when after the play is blown dead the player runs half way down the field with the ball.  Baseball games are long enough as they are now.  

I guess we will see if MLB rules on the play.  A lot less likely now that the Blue Jays took care of things.   

The officiating in the series seems to favour the Rangers.


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## DeniseM (Oct 14, 2015)

You are saying, "it wasn't fair," and I agree.  When an umpire makes a bad mistake, it's likely to be unfair to one team or the other.

However, the way it was handled was in accordance with baseball's rules.


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## Elan (Oct 14, 2015)

The dead ball call had no bearing on the play.  Odor was 2/3 of the way home when the ball was called dead.  Furthermore, there was virtually no movement toward the ball by the 3rd baseman, and even if there had been, Odor was clearly going to beat any throw home.  The dead ball call was incorrect, but it had no bearing on the outcome of the play.  

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM (Oct 14, 2015)

Elan said:


> The dead ball call had no bearing on the play.  Odor was 2/3 of the way home when the ball was called dead.  Furthermore, there was virtually no movement toward the ball by the 3rd baseman, and even if there had been, Odor was clearly going to beat any throw home.  The dead ball call was incorrect, but it had no bearing on the outcome of the play.



Exactly - a correct call would have resulted in the same outcome.


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## am1 (Oct 15, 2015)

I disagree. It is a slippery slope where an official is allowed to decide what they think may have happened after they made the initial call wrong.  

I do agree with reviewing calls but not in these cases where the original call changed what happened next.  

Thankfully the baseball gods agree with me.  How often are 3 errors made in a row? Or when was the last time?


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2015)

am1 said:


> I do agree with reviewing calls but not in these cases where the original call changed what happened next.



The real culprit in this is the original umpire who made the bad call.  It is illogical to blame reviewing calls, or the rules, or the other team.

No one likes to see a call over turned that goes against their team, but your displeasure is directed at the wrong things.


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## traveldaddy (Oct 15, 2015)

Great game and hoping to see the Jays bring some more rain....

The call was correct according to the current rules......but....let's hope MLB does the right thing and reviews the rule (which happens many times). 

The batters feet were in the batters box, but his arm and the bat were not.(IMO) 

Most importantly, that type of thing should never determine the outcome of a game, especially a playoff game. Goes against the entire concept of sport. 

Don't even mention the public safety implications. Not sure how many cities would not be suseptible to a riot if a playoff series was decided by a play like that. 

Not sure who was more happy that the Jays pulled it off, Martin or the police. 

Thankfully the baseball gods made it right, but mlb should be looking at this for the future for sure.


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## ace2000 (Oct 15, 2015)

traveldaddy said:


> The batters feet were in the batters box, but his arm and the bat were not.(IMO)



Does whether the batter's arm and bat being in the batters box or not matter?  I thought it all came down to whether it was intentional or unintentional.  It clearly looked unintentional to me, so in the end, the umpires reversed the initial bad call and then made the correct one.  

How about Bautista's home run?  His home run reaction has caused quite a stir.

http://m.mlb.com/tor/video/topic/73...c-clutch-bautistas-blast-puts-blue-jays-ahead


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 15, 2015)

Just saw an MLB explanation of the decision.  I had thought when the ump waived the ball dead the play was over, but unlike all other sports in MLB that is not the case!  The umpires have the right to advance a runner if in their opinion he would ordinarily have advanced or in this case scored a run.   But, MLB needs to fix this..... you can't waive a play dead then decide.... well we'll count the run anyway.  While the Jay's would not have been able to throw the runner out, they nevertheless did stop in their tracks upon seeing the play waived dead.   No other sport allows continuing play to count after it has been waived dead!


----------



## Elan (Oct 15, 2015)

It's not that much different than a live ball going out of play.  The umpires use their discretion to place base runners accordingly when the ball goes dead.  In this case, if one watches the replay, there was no way a play was even being made on the ball when the dead ball was called.  Odor could have crawled on his back from the point of the dead ball being signaled, and still scored.  The dead ball call was wrong, but the decision to allow the run was absolutely correct.  

  Here's a link to the video.

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94781376/v523048383/textor-gm5-odor-scores-after-throw-careens-off-bat

  Note the position of Odor, the ball, and the 3rd baseman when the umpire signals dead ball (at the 44 second mark of the video).  Odor is past half way home, and the ball is laying on the grass with no defender within 20+ feet of it.  The 3rd baseman barely even flinched.  There's *absolutely no question* that he was going to score.  

  The umpires decided it was a live ball, which it was, that inadvertently got called dead.  In their opinion, which again was correct, the runner would have scored had the ball remained live.


----------



## Elan (Oct 15, 2015)

Ironwood said:


> No other sport allows continuing play to count after it has been waived dead!



  Actually, the NFL allows for replay to determine a change of possession after a play is blown dead as long as the change occurs in "continuing action".  From the NFL rules:

_Note 1: If an on-field ruling of a dead ball (down by contact, out of bounds, or incomplete forward pass) is changed, the ball belongs to the recovering player at the spot of the recovery, and any advance is nullified. If the ball goes out of bounds in an end zone, the result of the play will be either a touchback or a safety.

Note 2: If the on-field ruling is a dead ball, any recovery must occur in the continuing action following the loss of possession.

Note 3: If the Referee does not have indisputable visual evidence as to which player recovered the loose ball, or that the ball went out of bounds, the ruling on the field will stand._


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2015)

Ironwood said:


> But, MLB needs to fix this..... you can't waive a play dead then decide.... well we'll count the run anyway.



Changing this rule is not even being discussed in baseball.  This rule allows the umpires to correct mistakes.  

You are criticizing the wrong call - the first one was wrong - they got the 2nd one right.


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 15, 2015)

Elan said:


> Actually, the NFL allows for replay to determine a change of possession after a play is blown dead as long as the change occurs in "continuing action".  From the NFL rules:
> 
> _Note 1: If an on-field ruling of a dead ball (down by contact, out of bounds, or incomplete forward pass) is changed, the ball belongs to the recovering player at the spot of the recovery, and any advance is nullified. If the ball goes out of bounds in an end zone, the result of the play will be either a touchback or a safety.
> 
> ...




Elan ...you are right.  I forgot about the NFL 'continuing action' rules.


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 15, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Changing this rule is not even being discussed in baseball.  This rule allows the umpires to correct mistakes.
> 
> You are criticizing the wrong call - the first one was wrong - they got the 2nd one right.



Agree DeniseM.....the first call was wrong and the second was correct under the rules!   I just don't think it's right!  Hell of a game though!


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Oct 15, 2015)

and here's more info on Jose Bautista's Celebration After a Series-Winning Home Run is Causing a Fire-Storm in Baseball- by Emmett Knowlton/ Yahoo! Sports/ Finance/ yahoo.com

"With two runners on and the fifth and deciding game of the American League Division Series tied in the bottom of the seventh inning, Jose Bautista crushed a Sam Dyson pitch into the upper deck of the Rogers Center to give the Jays a 6-3 lead.

In a postseason that's already had its fair share of absolutely monstrous home runs (looking at you, Yoenis Cespedes), none has been quite as important as Bautista's on Wednesday night. Nor has any single home run caused so much outrage.

After Bautista went yard, he unleashed arguably the most triumphant bat flip you'll ever see. Take a look for yourself:...

...Unsurprisingly, a celebration like this caused serious outrage around the baseball world, as many players and spectators felt that Bautista's bat flip was unnecessary and unclassy...."


Richard


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 15, 2015)

Richard, after what had transpired an inning before it was an exclamation point to cap the series!


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Oct 15, 2015)

Ironwood said:


> Richard, after what had transpired an inning before it was an exclamation point to cap the series!



I know and I agree.  However, many in the baseball world do not share our opinion.


Richard


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2015)

In the US, baseball has very traditional and conservative "unwritten rules," for what is appropriate conduct.  These rules of conduct are FAR more conservative than football or basketball.

The biggies:  Don't show off.  Don't show up the other team.

In other countries (primarily Latin countries) where baseball is popular, enthusiastic celebrations are the norm.

When Latin players come to play in the Us (or Canada) there is a cultural clash  regarding the "unwritten rules," of baseball.

As the old school American players age, and get out of baseball, and more and more Latin players join the MLB, I suspect this to gradually loosen up over time.


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 15, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> In the US, baseball has very traditional and conservative "unwritten rules," for what is appropriate conduct.  These rules of conduct are FAR more conservative than football or basketball.
> 
> The biggies:  Don't show off.  Don't show up the other team.
> 
> ...



DeniseM.....I know, I know all that!  And yes, we know how to catch a baseball in Canada.  Personally I don't like excessive celebrations or in your face stuff.   Why don't we all just look forward to the rest of the post season...I think there is a lot more to come!


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2015)

> Why don't we all just look forward to the rest of the post season...I think there is a lot more to come!



I *am* looking forward to it, but _talking about it_ is half the fun of being a sports fan!


----------



## DavidnRobin (Oct 15, 2015)

The baseball instant replay is a benefit to the game - also the ability to overturn bad calls.

I was at a Giants game where the 1st baseman didn't have possession of the ball and the 1st base umpire called the runner out based on the forced play (the ball was rolling on the ground in clear view of everyone).  As it was a senior umpire at 1st base, the junior umpires did nothing to correct the ruling even though it was a clear mistake.
Roger (HummBaby) Craig and the base runner (Robby Thompson) were thrown out of the game for arguing an incredibly bad call (worse I have ever seen).

Glad to see instant replay and over turning bad calls in Baseball - I hope they start using computerized strike zones as well (blasphemy!) - too much HomePlate umpire bias for a crucial calls. (see Cowboy Joe West...)
we shall see what the future brings.

They got the call right in Toronto. Baseball is interesting in that there is always something that you had never seen before even after seeing 1000s of games - as in this case. I thought the ball was dead, but the batter was in the box and did not intentionally block the catchers throw back to the pitcher - that is the rule.

As to the flipping of the bat in that manner... he is lucky the series ended. I disagree that this will become common place. Why? because the batter has to stand in the box while the pitcher pitches the ball at 90+ mph by his head - there have been Latin players in the leagues for years and are well aware of the unwritten rules. He just got caught up in the moment.

As to people throwing stuff onto the field... typical - the few ruin it for the many. I hear the guy who hit the kid was arrested.

next year is an even year... Go Giants!
(and... F the Dodgers)


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 15, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> I *am* looking forward to it, but _talking about it_ is half the fun of being a sports fan!



I'm with ya there!


----------



## BevL (Oct 15, 2015)

MULTIZ321 said:


> and here's more info on Jose Bautista's Celebration After a Series-Winning Home Run is Causing a Fire-Storm in Baseball- by Emmett Knowlton/ Yahoo! Sports/ Finance/ yahoo.com
> 
> "With two runners on and the fifth and deciding game of the American League Division Series tied in the bottom of the seventh inning, Jose Bautista crushed a Sam Dyson pitch into the upper deck of the Rogers Center to give the Jays a 6-3 lead.
> 
> ...



I love Bautista's quote after being asked if he had any response to Dyson's blethering about the bat throw - "Do you have a response?"  "No."  

Dyson needs to call the wah-mbulance - understandable he's not happy about the outcome of the game but really?

And here's the opposing point of view

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/joey-bautista-bat-flip-legend_561f02ffe4b050c6c4a44e25


On the West Coast, it's all everybody is talking about today - "Did you see the game?  Did you see the highlights?"  We may be divided about our hockey and football - CFL and NFL, but we only have one MLB team up here, so it's a lot of fun.


----------



## am1 (Oct 15, 2015)

"Jose Bautista needs to respect the game more" -said some loser nobody remembers

Has anyone hit more homers then Jose in the last 5 years?  The bat flip said it all and the best way to silence Texas and make them remember the 3 errors in a row they made prior.

Lets not stereotype Latin players or people here now.


----------



## BevL (Oct 15, 2015)

am1 said:


> .
> 
> Lets not stereotype Latin players or people here now.



Whoa, did I miss something?  With the greatest of respect, that is a complete 180 turn from the tone of this thread.  

It's baseball, it's fun, it's not politics, right?  Sorry, let's just have a little fall-time distraction.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 15, 2015)

MULTIZ321 said:


> and here's more info on Jose Bautista's Celebration After a Series-Winning Home Run is Causing a Fire-Storm in Baseball- by Emmett Knowlton/ Yahoo! Sports/ Finance/ yahoo.com
> 
> "With two runners on and the fifth and deciding game of the American League Division Series tied in the bottom of the seventh inning, Jose Bautista crushed a Sam Dyson pitch into the upper deck of the Rogers Center to give the Jays a 6-3 lead.
> 
> ...



I find it interesting that in this article that they call out Joe Carter's bias, but not any bias of Curt Shilling



> Curt Schilling, on ESPN afterward, said he understood Bautista's emotion but also said he hoped Bautista would be ready to get hit next season when the two teams faced each other.
> .
> .
> .
> Former Blue Jay Joe Carter seemed to have the most reasonable (if also biased) stance on the whole matter.



Sure, Joe played for Toronto and hit the home run to win the World Series over the Phillies, the team that Curt was playing for at the time. Not only was Curt a member of that 1993 Phillies team, he was also a pitcher, so I am sure he has a bias also. I have seen some of his commentary before some of the games on ESPN and I get the impression he isn't a Toronto fan, understandably so.


----------



## am1 (Oct 15, 2015)

BevL said:


> Whoa, did I miss something?  With the greatest of respect, that is a complete 180 turn from the tone of this thread.
> 
> It's baseball, it's fun, it's not politics, right?  Sorry, let's just have a little fall-time distraction.



It seems generalizing a nationality, race, group of people  etc is considered unacceptable even if it to explain what someone is asking.  Latin people respect the game of baseball.  Maybe we live in a too PC world?


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2015)

am1 - 

I have no dog in this fight, and I like Joey Bats, but if you think he has universal support, you are only listening to Toronto fans.

- Actually, the two camps are pretty evenly divided on the Joey Bats bat flip. Obviously, his fans are going to support him, but across baseball there is no consensus on the bat flip issue.  It's certainly not just "one loser," who thinks it  was over the top.

- If you read or listened to the discussions in the media the last couple of days, this was a universal theme:  There are a well-known cultural differences in the way baseball is played in Latin American countries and in the US and Canada.  There is nothing disrespectful in talking about it.

-Question:  On average, how many baseball games did you watch per week over the entire season?


----------



## billymach4 (Oct 15, 2015)

*NLDS*

It's a nail biter in LA! Should the Mets win I will be at at the home games this weekend!


----------



## am1 (Oct 15, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> am1 -
> 
> I have no dog in this fight, and I like Joey Bats, but if you think he has universal support, you are only listening to Toronto fans.
> 
> ...



It could be considered offensive to some.  True or not.  To me not really a big deal but I have thick skin on these kind of things.  

A bunch of losers that nobody remembers then?  Its a joke.

It has been about 20 years since I started watching the Jays as much as I have this year.  A lot less games then I would like.   It is not easy with two kids.  I do not live in the home market.  I prefer college football as a sport.  I do follow the Blue Jays every day in the Toronto Star. 

I do try to go see games of the local team when I can.  

May I ask why you are asking? 

Where else would a city celebrate like this:

https://www.facebook.com/david.l.lindsay.3/videos/10206787866669331/?fref=nf


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2015)

Based on some of your comments about the rules, I wondered how closely you followed baseball.


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## am1 (Oct 15, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Based on some of your comments about the rules, I wondered how closely you followed baseball.



You are the one who said talking about it is half the fun. 

But really not sure how people could not like Jose Bautista.  He is a hard working, consistent, team player.  Then lets his bat do the talking.


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## billymach4 (Oct 15, 2015)

billymach4 said:


> It's a nail biter in LA! Should the Mets win I will be at at the home games this weekend!



Only 3 more outs to go!


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 15, 2015)

*Blue Jay Fans*

Hey Denise - This is tongue in cheek - but should it be Toronto fans ( those who live there)  or Toronto's fans? I am hearing ( Fan 590) that the peak TV numbers for all 6 Canadian time zones was 11.5 million in a population of 35 million.
My guess is that (almost) all of them loved the bat flip - including those who saw it 1/2 an hour earlier in Newfoundland- and don't much like Toronto ( the city )

For a further view of Canadian sport cultural views -google -Bobby Clarke-1972 slash or ask the USSR teammates of  Valery Kharlamov .

It will be interesting to see how many babies born in Canada next year are named Jose 

GO BLUE JAYS


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## billymach4 (Oct 15, 2015)

billymach4 said:


> Only 3 more outs to go!



1 more out!


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## billymach4 (Oct 15, 2015)

billymach4 said:


> 1 more out!



See you at the GAME!


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 15, 2015)

*Mets beat Dodgers - final*

Mets - blue & orange
Cubs - blue 
Royals - light blue 
Blue Jays - blue

Is this a pattern or an  MLB /umpire conspiracy ?


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## DeniseM (Oct 15, 2015)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Hey Denise - This is tongue in cheek - but should it be Toronto fans ( those who live there)  or Toronto's fans? I am hearing ( Fan 590) that the peak TV numbers for all 6 Canadian time zones was 11.5 million in a population of 35 million.
> My guess is that (almost) all of them loved the bat flip - including those who saw it 1/2 an hour earlier in Newfoundland- and don't much like Toronto ( the city )
> 
> For a further view of Canadian sport cultural views -google -Bobby Clarke-1972 slash or ask the USSR teammates of  Valery Kharlamov .
> ...



By "Toronto Fans," I mean anyone who is a fan of the Blue Jays, no matter where they are.

Like I said - I like Joey Bats, myself!


----------



## joewillie12 (Oct 15, 2015)

billymach4 said:


> See you at the GAME!


 Citi will be rockin!
Lets Go Mets!


----------



## pedro47 (Oct 16, 2015)

How about those the new amazing Mets over the Dodgers last night..


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## ace2000 (Oct 16, 2015)

On the latino topic, it sounds kind of divisive to me, and yes there has been much discussion about it recently.  It runs similar to the past accusations that blacks tend to celebrate more in the NFL after touchdowns.  True or not, it's not something I care about.

And I'm happy to report that NONE of the top 5 spending teams are left in the playoffs.  Specifically, the Toronto Bluejays have the highest payroll of the teams left, and they are in 10th place on the payroll list.  Great news for the MLB!

Highest MLB payroll rankings

1.  LA Dodgers  $314M
2.  NY Yankees  $219M
3.  SF Giants  $187M
4.  Boston Red Sox  $183M
5.  Washington Nationals  $165M


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 16, 2015)

*Speaking of baseball culture*

I once read an article about the Italian pro baseball league . It said Italian born players don't dive for fly balls the way Jose Baustista did(in Weds. game) because it can make you look bad and spoil your image . They prefer to take it on one bounce even though you give up the hit . Not all the import players in the league agree with this strategy.

Their "world series" is called Lo Scudetto


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## am1 (Oct 16, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Highest MLB payroll rankings
> 
> 1.  LA Dodgers  $314M
> 2.  NY Yankees  $219M
> ...



I am happy about that as well but year on year out how can small market teams compete? A $200 million team should make the playoffs every year. Hopefully the jays can keep a lot of their players but some will move on for better pay days.  

Every team having a run of a few years every decade or so is what is best for mlb.  Hopefully the playoffs are not watered down anymore.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 16, 2015)

*RE : payroll of the Blue Jays*

Back in the summer - Bob McCown of the Fan 590 (am) discussed: how he understood that the Blue Jays had done currency hedging ( ie bought USD)
before oil and the loonie (C$ ) tanked based on their projected payroll for 2015 and 2016 . Even at $12 a beer it will take a lot of loonies to sign David Price .

BYW - yesterday I was emailing a client - GO BLUE JAYS and she replied that she had been at Weds game . So in jest I asked if she was the one throwing the beer. Her response was - Not at $12 a beer 
So when Canadians throw beer it ain't Lone Star & it ain't cheap !!


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## Ironwood (Oct 16, 2015)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Back in the summer - Bob McCown of the Fan 590 (am) discussed: how he understood that the Blue Jays had done currency hedging ( ie bought USD)
> before oil and the loonie (C$ ) tanked based on their projected payroll for 2015 and 2016 . Even at $12 a beer it will take a lot of loonies to sign David Price .
> 
> BYW - yesterday I was emailing a client - GO BLUE JAYS and she replied that she had been at Weds game . So in jest I asked if she was the one throwing the beer. Her response was - Not at $12 a beer
> So when Canadians throw beer it ain't Lone Star & it ain't cheap !!



...and beer in cans may be banned again after a full can whistled by a couple of mothers with very young children during the 7th inning controversy.  Would you bring a six month old in diapers to a ball game.... they are all grown up, but I never did!


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 16, 2015)

Not at the stub hub ticket prices .

LETS GO BLUE JAYS


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## John Cummings (Oct 17, 2015)

2





DeniseM said:


> In the US, baseball has very traditional and conservative "unwritten rules," for what is appropriate conduct.  These rules of conduct are FAR more conservative than football or basketball.
> 
> The biggies:  Don't show off.  Don't show up the other team.
> 
> ...



I agree with "Don't show up" the other team which is like the rule against "taunting" in football.

However I disagree strongly that it is normal in Latino countries because that is simply not true. How many games have you attended in a Latin country. Our son played professional baseball in Mexico and we have been to many games there. He was also on the Mexican All star team that competed in the "Torneo Olímpico Internacional" against Cuba, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Colombia, Guatamala, and the United Sates. We attended every game.. Never did the players ever act like Jose Bautista. He probably learned that from watching football. The fans get pretty excited.

Btw, Jose Bautista is definitely one of the "biggies".


----------



## John Cummings (Oct 17, 2015)

Way to go Royals. It was a great game tonight. I have been to many games at Royals stadium back when George Brett played for them. It is a great ball park, second only the Giants AT&T park what we have also been to many times.

I was glad to see the Mets win. Hopefully the Dodgers management will wake up and realize that Mattingly is a lousy manager.

I am hoping for a Royals vs Cubs world series. I don't really care who wins but I love baseball for the game itself.


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## John Cummings (Oct 17, 2015)

am1 said:


> I am happy about that as well but year on year out how can small market teams compete? A $200 million team should make the playoffs every year. Hopefully the jays can keep a lot of their players but some will move on for better pay days.
> 
> Every team having a run of a few years every decade or so is what is best for mlb.  Hopefully the playoffs are not watered down anymore.



The Oakland A's have pretty consistently fielded a pretty good team with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.

I recommend the book and movie "Moneyball". I have read the book and seen the movie.


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## am1 (Oct 17, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> The Oakland A's have pretty consistently fielded a pretty good team with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.
> 
> I recommend the book and movie "Moneyball". I have read the book and seen the movie.



Yes I have read and watched them.  Where was Oakland this year?


----------



## John Cummings (Oct 17, 2015)

am1 said:


> Yes I have read and watched them.  Where was Oakland this year?



This year wasn't so good for them but over the past several years, the A's have fielded a pretty good team.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 17, 2015)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Back in the summer - Bob McCown of the Fan 590 (am) discussed: how he understood that the Blue Jays had done currency hedging ( ie bought USD)
> before oil and the loonie (C$ ) tanked based on their projected payroll for 2015 and 2016 . Even at $12 a beer it will take a lot of loonies to sign David Price .
> 
> BYW - yesterday I was emailing a client - GO BLUE JAYS and she replied that she had been at Weds game . So in jest I asked if she was the one throwing the beer. Her response was - Not at $12 a beer
> So when Canadians throw beer it ain't Lone Star & it ain't cheap !!



Most of the cans they showed on TV looked like they were pretty much empty. There were a few things thrown that looked full, like the big cup or whatever it was during the dugout clearing skirmish after Bautistas home run. With as much as cam out of that, it looked more like a Big Gulp type of cup vs a beer can. I certainly wouldn't be throwing a $12 beer.

I am also not sure what the issue was right beside the Texas dugout. It appeared that the Texas manager wanted one or more fans removed from the seats. Not sure if that ever happened or what happened there. I am thinking something would have to have been thrown in to the dugout vs just verbal barrage as the big boys should be able to handle some verbal insults. I am sure it is much worse at other games.

As to Bautista's bat flip. I really don't see anything wrong with it. I saw an interview with David Wells where he wasn't happy with it. Though again, he is a pitcher. He also pitched in an earlier time when that wasn't nearly as common. I see lots of pitchers these days pumping fists and what not, so I say it is all par for the course. The game needs some excitement and this adds to it. It was a good game that had its ups and downs. If you can't get excited about that, you probably should pick a different sport to watch. The purists will say you need to respect the game, the game is changing, we aren't in the early 1900s any more.

Outside of playoff baseball, I really don't watch it. Games and the season are too long and drawn out. We need to see more of this in the regular season.

Sure Bautista had a mean look on his face after he hit the ball. He stood there for a couple seconds before flipping the bat. I think the look was caused by his mouthpiece more than anything else. There was also no doubt the moment that the ball left the bat, the ball was gone. Not like Joe's home run in 1993. He didn't know it would be a home run until he was half way to first base.

We will see how the Blue Jays continue to play. They were certainly out pitched in last nights game. We have back to back cruises coming up when the World Series will air. I was considering taking my Blue Jays jersey along if they made it that far until I thought about it and remembered that one of the cruises departs from Galveston Texas. I would rather not swim with the fishes, so I will leave it behind.

If the Cubs make it in to the World Series, I think outside of the opposing teams fan base, most people will be rooting for the Cubs.

Of the four teams left, only two are small market; Toronto and Kansas City. All may have a smaller payroll through. I can't believe a team paying out nearly $320M in player salaries. That is ridiculous. It just goes to show, you can't buy a Championship. You can use a lot of money to get you close though. There is so many variables when it comes to playoff baseball.

I am happy to see that a team that hasn't won the World Series in the last 20 years will win it this year. Still no new winner though with both Texas teams out of it.


----------



## DeniseM (Oct 17, 2015)

The A's fans that I know are not happy with the way the A's are managed.  They feel like every time they get a great team, management sells off the best players.

Combined with their horrible stadium, it's pretty disheartening.  

Look what happened last year when they got rid of Cespedes mid-season!  Painful!


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## pwrshift (Oct 17, 2015)

Jays lose No.2.  

Next 3 to Toronto?


----------



## BevL (Oct 17, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> Jays lose No.2.
> 
> Next 3 to Toronto?



Next four would be better - best of seven. 

Time left but an uphill slog when you don't split those initial two away games in a playoff series.  We shall see.

Edited to add:

I think you probably meant the next three games are played in Toronto - sorry, I was confused.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 17, 2015)

pwrshift said:


> Jays lose No.2.
> 
> Next 3 to Toronto?



Yeah, the Jays have put themselves in a hole again. I think they will still win a couple in Toronto. I think though in order for them to have a chance, they need to win all three. Kauffman Stadium in KC is not a stadium that suits well to their style of play. If they lose one in Toronto, that means that they would have to win both back in KC. I think it will be tough. Though I remain hopeful.

I am just happy that I can see them play. I don't get to see many of their regular season games down here in the US unless I wanted to fork out $200 for MLB Extra Innings. Something I don't plan to do. So unless they are playing Cincinnati or when they were in the race for the AL East this year, their games aren't available here in Ohio. Though I don't think I could last out an entire season, simply too long.


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## John Cummings (Oct 17, 2015)

The Royals did it again. Better get the broom ready for a sweep. Actually I think the Royals will take the Jays in 5 games.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 18, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> The Royals did it again. Better get the broom ready for a sweep. Actually I think the Royals will take the Jays in 5 games.



Don't be like the people making comments over on ESPN.com. There is a reason I quit reading those.


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## John Cummings (Oct 18, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> Don't be like the people making comments over on ESPN.com. There is a reason I quit reading those.



I am not like anyone else. If you don't like my support of the Royals, too bad. That is your problem.


----------



## pedro47 (Oct 18, 2015)

How about the N Y Mets?


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## joewillie12 (Oct 18, 2015)

pedro47 said:


> How about the N Y Mets?


 They're Simply Amazin! Murph to the rescue again. Hope Wright starts hitting real soon....like today would be nice. Lets Go Mets!


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 18, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> I am not like anyone else. If you don't like my support of the Royals, too bad. That is your problem.



The thing is, I read all the same stuff after Texas was up 2-0. We see how that turned out. I don't have a problem with anyone supporting their team, but making sweep predictions this early? There is a reason the series is set for 7 games, not 2.

I have no problem with the Royals, they have a great team that was built for the post season. After their trip to the World Series last year, anything less than a World Series win this year will be a disappointment for them and their fans.


----------



## ace2000 (Oct 18, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> The Royals did it again. Better get the broom ready for a sweep. Actually I think the Royals will take the Jays in 5 games.



LOL - I don't know about a sweep.  But, I'm in a tough spot.  Root for the Royals to close the deal in Toronto, or see them play in KC next weekend.  Either way I win!


----------



## am1 (Oct 18, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> LOL - I don't know about a sweep.  But, I'm in a tough spot.  Root for the Royals to close the deal in Toronto, or see them play in KC next weekend.  Either way I win!



Unless the Royals lose the series.  Last nights game was a disappointment not just the loss but how they lost.  If the Blue Jays get their bats back they will be unstoppable.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 18, 2015)

am1 said:


> Unless the Royals lose the series.  Last nights game was a disappointment not just the loss but how they lost.  If the Blue Jays get their bats back they will be unstoppable.



The only way for KC to lose the series is to do it at home in KC. As long as Toronto wins two of three at home, they will go back to KC. Toronto hasn't lost three in a row since July. Several weeks before the trade deadline.


----------



## ace2000 (Oct 18, 2015)

am1 said:


> Unless the Royals lose the series.  Last nights game was a disappointment not just the loss but how they lost.  If the Blue Jays get their bats back they will be unstoppable.



The Blue Jays have dug a deep hole for themselves.  Besides their bats, they'll need to get their pitching and defense back as well.  The Blue Jays really need to win the next 3 games.


----------



## Chrisky (Oct 18, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> The Blue Jays have dug a deep hole for themselves.  Besides their bats, they'll need to get their pitching and defense back as well.  The Blue Jays really need to win the next 3 games.



Well, the Blue Jays did it the last series.  But I agree, I don't think they have as many good pitchers as the Royals.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 18, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> The Blue Jays have dug a deep hole for themselves.  Besides their bats, they'll need to get their pitching and defense back as well.  The Blue Jays really need to win the next 3 games.



Actually, I think their pitching has been pretty good. Just not as good nor good enough. Estrada actually pitched well in game one but the Jays offence simply ran in to a better starting pitcher. Price pitched well in game 2 until the popup that was allowed to fall. Even then, the hits that KC was getting were on good pitches, they just found ways to drive the balls the other way for hits. Price had retired 18 in a row up to that point.

The one place that the Jays really lack compared to the Royals is in the middle bullpen where KC is so much stronger. With Cecil out, they have only one lefty out of the pen, and he isn't the best lefty. With Cecil out, they really don't have a reliable option to go to to face left handed batters. That is why Price was left in so long in game 2, they wanted the lefty on lefty pitching match-ups. It didn't work out for them unfortunately.

I kind of wonder what happened on that popup? Goins said in a locker room interview that he thought he heard something that he apparently didn't. He wasn't making excuses, but I wonder if someone in the crowd didn't yell out an "I got it"? Not an excuse for that to really happen. It should have been on Bautista to call off Goins, not Goins to call off Bautista. Goins must have thought he heard Bautista call him off.

I am also not sure why Bautista is the person that in this post season is the one that people love to hate? He got booed in every plate appearance in KC. No one has hit more home runs in the last five years. He draws a lot of walks and knows the strike zone. That is why he was shocked on the one plate appearance where he was caught looking. He is a patient hitter and draws walks. Just about any team would want him on their roster. At that point, those fans would love the guy.

The Blue Jays simply play a different style of baseball. One that Kauffman Stadium doesn't lend itself to. Sure winning one on the road sure would have helped the Jays, but I think it will be a different style of game you see in Toronto and the crowd there can be defining. I do think Toronto needs all three at home to have a chance back in KC. The first two games have been pretty good, nothing compared to game 5 in Toronto against Texas. That series and game is one to show you that it isn't over until it is over.


----------



## billymach4 (Oct 18, 2015)

*Lets go mets!!! Harvey!, murphy!*

Last week Family and Friends were at the NLDS against the Dodgers. Due to business commitments I could not attend. As soon as the Mets crushed the Dodgers I got ticket to the 1st and  2nd home Playoff games. Last night and tonight.

What a great night it was last night. We got parking 2 1/2 hours early. Met up with family friends. Had a delicious healthy turkey hero from one of the local vendors 'Mama's of Corona'.

The crowd was totally charged up. Ad hoc chants of "Lets Go Mets" , 2 syllable chants of  "HAR VEY, HAR VEY, HAR VEY", followed by "MUR PHY, MUR PHY, MUR PHY"
all night long. 

Never been to a post series baseball game until last night. Now I can scratch that off my list!


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 18, 2015)

billymach4 said:


> Last week Family and Friends were at the NLDS against the Dodgers. Due to business commitments I could not attend. As soon as the Mets crushed the Dodgers I got ticket to the 1st and  2nd home Playoff games. Last night and tonight.
> 
> What a great night it was last night. We got parking 2 1/2 hours early. Met up with family friends. Had a delicious healthy turkey hero from one of the local vendors 'Mama's of Corona'.
> 
> ...



I don't understand, how can even a Mets fan root against the Cubs?


----------



## billymach4 (Oct 18, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't understand, how can even a Mets fan root against the Cubs?



Although I can sympathize with the CUBS fans, The Mets are my home town team as well as the Yankees. I realize the Yankees have won way too many championships and the fun has worn off. 

The Mets now have a tradition, and culture that is unique to NY. Having been born out of baseball expansion in the late Fifties when Robert Moses forced 2 of the NL teams to move west the beloved Brooklyn Dodgers, and the NY Giants. Also LA's Uttley caused somewhat of a vengeance this year when he broke Tejadas leg. 

May the best team win the NL league championship. Sorry but I have to side with the Mets in this case.


----------



## billymach4 (Oct 19, 2015)

*Mur phy! Mur phy! Mur phy!*

What a kick in the pants to be at the game and his first at bat, Murphy knocks it out of the park again! 

Daniel Murphy is on fire! He made everyone feel so comfortable the rest of the game. The Cubs were definitely intimidated by Daniel Murphy last night. 

C'ya at Wrigley!


----------



## ace2000 (Oct 19, 2015)

Now the BlueJays AND the Cubs are on the hot seat!!!


----------



## joewillie12 (Oct 19, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I don't understand, how can even a Mets fan root against the Cubs?


 Cubs have the same amount of World Series wins as the Mets and even won them back to back. Sorry, no sympathy for the "lovable losers" this year. Lets Go Mets!


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 19, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Now the BlueJays AND the Cubs are on the hot seat!!!



Next game is essentially 'do or die' for both!


----------



## am1 (Oct 19, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> The Royals did it again. Better get the broom ready for a sweep. Actually I think the Royals will take the Jays in 5 games.



I would put your broom away or somewhere else.  I do not and never thought the series would end in 5 games for either side.


----------



## John Cummings (Oct 19, 2015)

am1 said:


> I would put your broom away.  I do not and never thought the series would end in 5 games for either side.



I hate to tell you this but it can still end in 5 games even with the Blue Jays winning today.

In any event, whether it ends in 5, 6, or 7 games doesn't matter much as long as the Royals win.


----------



## pwrshift (Oct 19, 2015)

Jays just needed to come home to get in the groove again.  Go Jays!

Brian


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## am1 (Oct 19, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> I hate to tell you this but it can still end in 5 games even with the Blue Jays winning today.
> 
> In any event, whether it ends in 5, 6, or 7 games doesn't matter much as long as the Royals win.



I do not see the Jays losing 3 in a row.  The jays have been the hottest team the second half of the season.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 20, 2015)

As much as I love the Jays, I do think they are outmatched in this series. They had to throw just about everything at the Royals to hold on to that big lead. It ended as a three run game. I do think it is possible, but it will be a huge struggle where they have to give it everything that they can. Like I said earlier, I still think they need to get out of Toronto up 3 games to 2 to have a good chance. Winning two games back in KC won't be easy.

The Royals just never give up. Even when down by a huge margin they put up big numbers in the ninth.


----------



## John Cummings (Oct 20, 2015)

Pitching always dominates in a series and the Blue Jays pitching has been terrible. Obviously the Royals pitching wasn't good today however the Blue Jays pitching has been bad in all 3 games. They can't keep giving up 5, 6, and 8 runs and expect to win the division series.

However anything can happen so we have to wait and see.


----------



## traveldaddy (Oct 20, 2015)

Will be interesting to see if a knuckle baller can get to KC hitters. Let's hope it messes up their timing and he can go at least 6 innings. 

Jays do need to pitch better in order to win a series, but having the bats come alive is certainly not going to hurt. Jays have tended to wear down opposing pitching staffs this year, and it looks like that trend is continuing. Royals are very deep in pitching and it looks like it will be a question of who wears out first.....Jays are not as deep. I know defence (generally) wins championships, but this is going to be interesting. I really hope they can keep this team intact for next year as well - some young pitchers here that are going to get a lot better with experience......

Most importantly, I hope the best team wins, and it is not because of officiating. 

What was up with ejecting Tulo?


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 20, 2015)

traveldaddy said:


> Will be interesting to see if a knuckle baller can get to KC hitters. Let's hope it messes up their timing and he can go at least 6 innings.
> 
> Jays do need to pitch better in order to win a series, but having the bats come alive is certainly not going to hurt. Jays have tended to wear down opposing pitching staffs this year, and it looks like that trend is continuing. Royals are very deep in pitching and it looks like it will be a question of who wears out first.....Jays are not as deep. I know defence (generally) wins championships, but this is going to be interesting. I really hope they can keep this team intact for next year as well - some young pitchers here that are going to get a lot better with experience......
> 
> ...



Fox Sports 1 indicated that they had a mic on the home plate umpire, but they certainly weren't going to play any part of the exchange on the air. I get the impression that the umpire was looking for an argument when the Jays took the field. Ultimately it came down to arguing balls and strikes. There were some questionable calls on that. But I also think the ump was trying to pick a fight with Tulo.


----------



## Ironwood (Oct 20, 2015)

traveldaddy said:


> Will be interesting to see if a knuckle baller can get to KC hitters. Let's hope it messes up their timing and he can go at least 6 innings.
> 
> Jays do need to pitch better in order to win a series, but having the bats come alive is certainly not going to hurt. Jays have tended to wear down opposing pitching staffs this year, and it looks like that trend is continuing. Royals are very deep in pitching and it looks like it will be a question of who wears out first.....Jays are not as deep. I know defence (generally) wins championships, but this is going to be interesting. I really hope they can keep this team intact for next year as well - some young pitchers here that are going to get a lot better with experience......
> 
> ...



The Jays pitching has been uncertain post season, and the Royals pitching got rocked last night.  I think the remaining games will be a bit of a slugfest.  Tulo's ejection seemed to be somewhat hasty, unless there was swearing or something questioning the ump's birthright that we couldn't pick up.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 20, 2015)

*Blue Jays win high scoring game 3- Oct 19 2015*

Blue jays win game 3 at home   / 11 to 8 

While the minor league team in Ottawa changes team colours to red from blue 


Game 4 first pitch 4:07 pm at Rogers Centre 
today/Tuesday Oct 20 - R.A. Dickey vs. Chris Young


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## dioxide45 (Oct 20, 2015)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Game 4 first pitch 4:07 pm at Rogers Centre
> today/Tuesday Oct 20 - R.A. Dickey vs. Chris Young



Back in 2012, the Blue Jays aquired R.A.Dickey in a trade from the NY Mets. Going over to the Mets, among others, is none other than NLCS game 2 winner  Noah Syndergaard. Looks like the Mets came out ahead in that trade looking at the results of today's game.

It is such a gamble going with a nuckleballer in a playoff game. They usually either have their stuff or they don't. If they don't, you know it early. They usually know it before they even leave their bullpen warm-up. The Jays chances look real bleak right now, but I say go get them tomorrow, make them work for it.


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## John Cummings (Oct 20, 2015)

The Blue Jays pitching staff outdid themselves today giving up 14 runs. The Royals in 5 games is looking pretty good now.

In the off season the Blue Jays maybe should trade some of those sluggers for a decent pitcher or two.


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## Ironwood (Oct 20, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> The Blue Jays pitching staff outdid themselves today giving up 14 runs. The Royals in 5 games is looking pretty good now.
> 
> In the off season the Blue Jays maybe should trade some of those sluggers for a decent pitcher or two.



It was a rather ugly evening!


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## John Cummings (Oct 20, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> Fox Sports 1 indicated that they had a mic on the home plate umpire, but they certainly weren't going to play any part of the exchange on the air. I get the impression that the umpire was looking for an argument when the Jays took the field. Ultimately it came down to arguing balls and strikes. There were some questionable calls on that. But I also think the ump was trying to pick a fight with Tulo.



Arguing balls and strikes is almost always instant ejection from the game.


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## DeniseM (Oct 20, 2015)

First time ever that a position player has pitched in a playoff game!  Crazy!


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## dioxide45 (Oct 20, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> The Blue Jays pitching staff outdid themselves today giving up 14 runs. The Royals in 5 games is looking pretty good now.
> 
> In the off season the Blue Jays maybe should trade some of those sluggers for a decent pitcher or two.



Perhaps the Royals have wasted all their runs for the rest of the series on just this one game? 

As soon as I saw Hawkins in there pitching in the sixth, I knew the Jays had given up.

ETA: I do think the Jays are in a position to do well next year. Tulo is in club control for five more years (at a whopping $20M a year for the next few). Donaldson isn't free agent eligible for a while. Bautista and Encarnacion are under contract until the end of the 2016 season. The Jays hold a $12M option on Dickey and with Buehrle potentially retiring along with his $19M contract, they could have a chunk of cash to go out for a couple decent pitchers to fill out their pen.

I think Estrada and Stroman will continue to mature and be able to fit in as good number two and number three starters. Their shut down bullpen with Sanchez and Osuna are good to hold a lead in the late innings. I am actually surprised that the Jays got through the trade deadline holding on to Estrada, Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna. They are the future of the team if they don't end up trading them away.

David Price, even with his post season woes would be a good premier number one starter. I just don't think the Jays are willing to commit to a long term huge contract that he will demand from any team that wants him. I see him going to Boston, New York or even LA. Someone who can afford him. I think he would be good for the Jays though. Everything I have read about him makes me think he is a good guy and brings some good leadership to any team he is on.


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## ace2000 (Oct 20, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> First time ever that a position player has pitched in a playoff game!  Crazy!



Did the Royals happen to put a quarterback and wide receiver in the game???


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## John Cummings (Oct 21, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps the Royals have wasted all their runs for the rest of the series on just this one game?



You are ignoring the fact that the Royals have scored at least 5 runs per game including 8 in their only loss.


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## Ironwood (Oct 21, 2015)

ace2000 said:


> Did the Royals happen to put a quarterback and wide receiver in the game???



Never a dull moment in this series!


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## pedro47 (Oct 21, 2015)

KC vs NY in world series.


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## John Cummings (Oct 21, 2015)

pedro47 said:


> KC vs NY in world series.



It certainly looks like it. I am happy about KC but I was hoping the Cubs would make it.


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## ace2000 (Oct 21, 2015)

I'm just glad the second best team in Missouri gets an opportunity to experience what it's like to be a Cardinals fan!

Go Royals!


----------



## theo (Oct 21, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> <snip>... I was hoping the Cubs would make it.



As was much of the world, I suspect, but it's not looking good at this juncture, with the Cubbies being down three games to none.


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## ace2000 (Oct 21, 2015)

theo said:


> As was much of the world, I suspect, but it's not looking good at this juncture, with the Cubbies being down three games to none.



I've recently heard that a wealthy Mets fan has actually paid Steve Bartman to attend the entire Cubs-Mets series...


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## Ironwood (Oct 21, 2015)

It ain't over yet for the Jay's!.......... and they stay alive 7-1


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## billymach4 (Oct 21, 2015)

Holy Cow!

Guess who is on FIRE again tonight!


FIRE = METS!

2 HR in 1st inning. I started this update on HR #1 then HR# was hit before I could finish!


----------



## moonstone (Oct 21, 2015)

Ironwood said:


> It ain't over yet for the Jay's!.......... and they stay alive 7-1



 :whoopie: 

I hope they play the same on Friday!

~Diane


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## dioxide45 (Oct 21, 2015)

Ironwood said:


> It ain't over yet for the Jay's!.......... and they stay alive 7-1





moonstone said:


> :whoopie:
> 
> I hope they play the same on Friday!
> 
> ~Diane



Estrada pitched a great game. It is what the Jays really needed from him today given the disastrous outing by Dickey and the pen yesterday. Not having to go to the pen until the 8th really helped. As bad as the Jays looked yesterday, they seemed really composed today and did what they needed to do.

I was thinking about it earlier today that if the Jays could push it to a game six, they perhaps have a good chance at making it go seven. Price will be on the mound for the Jays in game 6. While he has had his post season woes, I don't think there is anyone else the Jays want out on the mound than Price.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 21, 2015)

joewillie12 said:


> Cubs have the same amount of World Series wins as the Mets and even won them back to back. Sorry, no sympathy for the "lovable losers" this year. Lets Go Mets!



But if you look at the WS winning percentage, the Mets are way ahead. The Cubs have been around a lot longer. Not sure measuring them simply by total WS wins is the best way to compare. My prior post on this was in jest of course. It sure looks like the Cubs will be done in four.


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## John Cummings (Oct 21, 2015)

I congratulate the Jay's pitcher Estrada for pitching a great game. That was the best post season pitching performance since Baumgarner in last years WS.

My sister-in-law lives in the same area as where Estrada is from in Sonora Mexico and my wife is from the same state of Sinaloa Mexico as Osuna, the Jay's closer. We were married in Sinaloa Mexico and lived there for 4 years.


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## am1 (Oct 21, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> I congratulate the Jay's pitcher Estrada for pitching a great game. That was the best post season pitching performance since Baumgarner in last years WS.
> 
> My sister-in-law lives in the same area as where Estrada is from in Sonora Mexico and my wife is from the same state of Sinaloa Mexico as Osuna, the Jay's closer. We were married in Sinaloa Mexico and lived there for 4 years.



I think there is still a little room for you to jump on the bandwagon.  

The Jays bats can win the next two games if they get hot.


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## joewillie12 (Oct 21, 2015)

HOW SWEEP IT IS! LETS GO METS!


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## John Cummings (Oct 22, 2015)

am1 said:


> I think there is still a little room for you to jump on the bandwagon.
> 
> The Jays bats can win the next two games if they get hot.



No, I will never be a Jays fan. The Royals bats have been hotter and they have better pitching not to mention home field advantage.


The Jays could win because "it isn't over until it's over" but highly unlikely.


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## TUGBrian (Oct 22, 2015)

poor cubbies...


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## pedro47 (Oct 22, 2015)

TUGBrian said:


> poor cubbies...



Maybe next year or the next year.


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## joewillie12 (Oct 22, 2015)

pedro47 said:


> Maybe next year or the next year.


 If the Mets keep that pitching staff together it might be more than a couple of years
Go Jays......drag that series out!


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## dioxide45 (Oct 24, 2015)

WOW, that was a great game. Congratulations to the KC Royals. The Jays almost pulled it off but simply couldn't pull through in the ninth when it counted. 

It should be a good World Series. Without the Jays in the series and also traveling during the series, I likely won't watch most of the game. Though I will be rooting for the Royals to win it. I just don't want another NL team team to win the World Series. They have won too many the last few years. Bring the WS back to the AL.


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## John Cummings (Oct 24, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> WOW, that was a great game. Congratulations to the KC Royals. The Jays almost pulled it off but simply couldn't pull through in the ninth when it counted.
> 
> It should be a good World Series. Without the Jays in the series and also traveling during the series, I likely won't watch most of the game. Though I will be rooting for the Royals to win it. I just don't want another NL team team to win the World Series. They have won too many the last few years. Bring the WS back to the AL.



It was the best game of the series by far.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 24, 2015)

They were discussing on the post game analysis that they expect Cuedo to pitch game 1 in KC. I think that KC really needs to find a way to get Cuedo to start in game 2 instead. This would put both of his potential games at home, game two and five. He has a horrid record on the road in this post season. I think it was indicated earlier in the series that his ERA was something like 19. I don't know if he is up to the task to handle the road crowd. His experience in Pittsburgh a few years ago in the wild card game is another example. Have him pitch two at home and you might get two wins from him. One on the road might be a big loss.


----------



## am1 (Oct 24, 2015)

The Jays had so many chances to put runs on the board but failed every time with runners in scoring position.   Small ball has not been their style but they could have won the game that way.

The home run call may have been right but I would not doubt it would have been a double for the blue jays.

If the Jays had home field advantage there could have been a different outcome but maybe the Jays and or Royals would not have made the ALCS.  

The rain and doubleheader in Baltimore and then resting the starters stopped the momentum.

I will be cheering for the Mets although less interested.


----------



## dioxide45 (Oct 24, 2015)

am1 said:


> The Jays had so many chances to put runs on the board but failed every time with runners in scoring position.   Small ball has not been their style but they could have won the game that way.
> 
> The home run call may have been right but I would not doubt it would have been a double for the blue jays.
> 
> ...



I really think any time that a fan interferes with the ball, the call should go against the home team. No need to leave it up to judgement. That ball was likely to hit the top of the wall and go over if the fans glove hadn't have come in to the picture, but we don't really know. Instead someone watching a replay had to decide if it likely would have been a home run or not. I do'nt disagree with the call, under the current rules, they made the right call. But it probably isn't the be best way to do it. Keep fans hands from coming over the fence by making the call go against their team.

In the end, that certainly wasn't what caused the Jays to lose. Nor was the clear ball that was called a strike on Rever in the 9th. They were like 0 for 12 with runners in scoring position for the game. Second and third with no one out and they couldn't even drive a fly ball to the outfield, that is all it would have taken to tie the game. It goes to show how good the KC bullpen is. Though I am sure they might be a little nervous the next time they bring Madson in to pitch in relief. The 8th and 9th shows that KC bullpen isn't quite as bullet proof as every leads to believe.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 24, 2015)

*Blue Jays leaving men on base - KC Royals win 2015 ALCS*

Every Blue Jay player that lost last night should be reading over the winter
White Rat (aka Whiteyball) by Whitey Herzog 

Pompey on third & no outs - enough said 

We lived in St. Louis from 1978 - 1990 / and that is still my favorite style of baseball .

 I loved seeing (all of ) the home runs by Jose Bautista and the Jays had an exciting season but now they are  going home and the Royals meet the Mets in the World Series .


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## Ironwood (Oct 24, 2015)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Every Blue Jay player that lost last night should be reading over the winter
> White Rat (aka Whiteyball) by Whitey Herzog
> 
> Pompey on third & no outs - enough said
> ...



This series went down to the last at bat... and that's the kind of baseball we all want to see.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 24, 2015)

*Last at bat - but started with Pompey on 3rd & no outs*

It will be interesting to see what Bob McCown says Monday evening on his  drive time show - on The Fan 590 (am / Toronto)

Congrats. to the Royals - the best playing team won October 2015  ALCS
Will see how it plays out against the Mets


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## dioxide45 (Oct 24, 2015)

For a while there it looked like the Jays might make the miracle comeback. Had they, i still think it would have been tough in game seven against Cuedo at home. Though Stroman would have put in a great game, if they didn't have to go with him in relief in game 6. Though it is all for not. Small ball wasn't their game. They didn't win games in the regular season playing small ball, so we can't really expect them to win in October by completely changing their play. It was good to see Bautista slug two homers in KC though.


----------



## John Cummings (Oct 24, 2015)

am1 said:


> The Jays had so many chances to put runs on the board but failed every time with runners in scoring position.   Small ball has not been their style but they could have won the game that way.
> 
> The home run call may have been right but I would not doubt it would have been a double for the blue jays.
> 
> ...



"The home run call may have been right but I would not doubt it would have been a double for the blue jays."

I detect a sore loser that can't accept that their team was beaten by a better team.


----------



## John Cummings (Oct 24, 2015)

dioxide45 said:


> I really think any time that a fan interferes with the ball, the call should go against the home team. No need to leave it up to judgement. That ball was likely to hit the top of the wall and go over if the fans glove hadn't have come in to the picture, but we don't really know. Instead someone watching a replay had to decide if it likely would have been a home run or not. I do'nt disagree with the call, under the current rules, they made the right call. But it probably isn't the be best way to do it. Keep fans hands from coming over the fence by making the call go against their team.
> 
> In the end, that certainly wasn't what caused the Jays to lose. Nor was the clear ball that was called a strike on Rever in the 9th. They were like 0 for 12 with runners in scoring position for the game. Second and third with no one out and they couldn't even drive a fly ball to the outfield, that is all it would have taken to tie the game. It goes to show how good the KC bullpen is. Though I am sure they might be a little nervous the next time they bring Madson in to pitch in relief. The 8th and 9th shows that KC bullpen isn't quite as bullet proof as every leads to believe.



Hitting the top of the wall is a home run.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Oct 24, 2015)

*Small ball*

Hey Dioxide45 -I know all  the Jays  wanted to force the Royals to come to bat in the 9th .

If you saw the one second TV shot of Ben Revere turning his bat into toothpicks in the dugout after striking out - you knew Revere understood " small ball " in that situation & was really upset he could not get it done .

As they say in Cub-land : next year


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## dioxide45 (Oct 24, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> Hitting the top of the wall is a home run.



The problem is that it didn't hit the top of the wall. It hit a kids glove. So we don't really know where it would have hit for sure. A umpire can only make a best guess and make a judgement call. I am not disagreeing with the call, but more the rule. If a fan reaches down to catch the ball where it would have potentially been in play, they should rule against the home team. People will be less likely to interfere.


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## am1 (Oct 24, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> "The home run call may have been right but I would not doubt it would have been a double for the blue jays."
> 
> I detect a sore loser that can't accept that their team was beaten by a better team.



Not at all.  I am not the only one that thinks the umpires had a bias against Toronto in these playoffs.  

The team that played better won this series.  But if a few calls went the Jays way then it would be a different story.  

Here is to hoping the Mets have their brooms ready and are not worn out from the NLCS.  The mets are my 3rd team after the Jays and who is playing the Yankees.


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## am1 (Oct 24, 2015)

I agree and would also include ejecting the fan but I am sure with ruling against the home team the other fans would take care of that on their own. 



dioxide45 said:


> The problem is that it didn't hit the top of the wall. It hit a kids glove. So we don't really know where it would have hit for sure. A umpire can only make a best guess and make a judgement call. I am not disagreeing with the call, but more the rule. If a fan reaches down to catch the ball where it would have potentially been in play, they should rule against the home team. People will be less likely to interfere.


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## dioxide45 (Oct 24, 2015)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Hey Dioxide45 -I know all  the Jays  wanted to force the Royals to come to bat in the 9th .
> 
> If you saw the one second TV shot of Ben Revere turning his bat into toothpicks in the dugout after striking out - you knew Revere understood " small ball " in that situation & was really upset he could not get it done .
> 
> As they say in Cub-land : next year



I am sure the ninth inning will live with a lot of the Jays players through the winter. Just like the ninth inning for KC in last years World Series. Having the tying run only 90 feet away and not being able to capitalize can really hurt. Especially when you have three chances.


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## traveldaddy (Oct 24, 2015)

John Cummings said:


> Hitting the top of the wall is a home run.



Actually I  recall the announcers were all of the opinion that it was a double....and when the call came all I heard them say was "Wow" and they were silent for a while. They were making fun of the catcher with the interviews where he was saying his glove was on top of the wall. It clearly wasn't, and his glove was in the field of play. 

The kid made a catch and his glove hit the side of the wall, not the top of the wall, when the ball hit the glove. Given the glove was underneath the ball, I don't see how the ball would have hit the top of the wall if the glove wasn't there. (IMnsho - not looking for an argument - it is over)

I agree with others - If they had to go to a review, the guy should be ejected. It is just a shame that a game that important would have something like this to cast doubt. It should not be like that - not good for either team. I guess it does give the sports talk shows a lot of fodder though. I have no idea if the end result would have been any different....KC clearly had an advantage even if it was only a double, but just a shame for that to happen. So much better if it was just clean all around.


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## am1 (Oct 24, 2015)

traveldaddy said:


> Actually I  recall the announcers were all of the opinion that it was a double....and when the call came all I heard them say was "Wow" and they were silent for a while. They were making fun of the catcher with the interviews where he was saying his glove was on top of the wall. It clearly wasn't, and his glove was in the field of play.
> 
> The kid made a catch and his glove hit the side of the wall, not the top of the wall, when the ball hit the glove. Given the glove was underneath the ball, I don't see how the ball would have hit the top of the wall if the glove wasn't there. (IMnsho - not looking for an argument - it is over)
> 
> I agree with others - If they had to go to a review, the guy should be ejected. It is just a shame that a game that important would have something like this to cast doubt. It should not be like that - not good for either team. I guess it does give the sports talk shows a lot of fodder though. I have no idea if the end result would have been any different....KC clearly had an advantage even if it was only a double, but just a shame for that to happen. So much better if it was just clean all around.



Hopefully that kid is not a representative of the honesty of Kansas Citians as a whole.  What a waste of a segment interviewing him.


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## John Cummings (Oct 25, 2015)

am1 said:


> Not at all.  I am not the only one that thinks the umpires had a bias against Toronto in these playoffs.



I am sure they are all Blue Jays fans. That is just sour grapes.

In any event it is onto the WS now.


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## John Cummings (Oct 25, 2015)

Good Lord, you guys are something else. You lost, game over. The kids glove was definitely on the top of the wall. However it was all a conspiracy by the umps against your team.


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## ace2000 (Oct 27, 2015)

ROYALS vs. METS

Who ya got???

I'm going with the Royals in 7.  Two very evenly matched teams and I think the home field advantage will help the Royals prevail!


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## joewillie12 (Oct 27, 2015)

I take the Mets in 5. The magic carpet ride continues..........


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## John Cummings (Oct 28, 2015)

I just finished watching game 1 and it was a great one. Both teams are pretty evenly matched. I think the Royals will win if for no other reason than having home field advantage.

I hope the Royals win as I was a big Royals fan during the George Brett era and he is still very much an important part of the organization. But regardless of who wins, if the rest of the series is like tonight's game, I will be happy.


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## TUGBrian (Oct 28, 2015)

man, what a game 1!


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## ace2000 (Oct 28, 2015)

The Royals seem to be a team of destiny!  It was a very hard fought game and both teams really deserved the win.  Mets squandered too many opportunities and the Royals take the first game.  Go Royals!


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