# Hilton Maui



## csodjd (Apr 21, 2020)

The new HGV on Maui in Kihei (Maui Bay Villas) is either taking or about to start taking deposits from certain people. I had expressed an interest when it was first announced so I've been kept up to date and have received the offer. Initially only 1 and 2 BR, resort view and partial ocean view rooms are available. I was asked not to post prices so I won't. Suffice to say that they are developer prices, with various offers associated! (For instance, if you bought something on the resale market they'll credit you that amount and take that back and apply it to this purchase, which is helpful to be sure own in, say, Hawaii already.) The premier ocean view and 3-BR rooms will not be available for a while, time frame unknown. I am told these are being aggressively priced for the initial presale. That comes from a sales person, of course. Point values range from 9300 to 14400. 

I note in the renderings that the kitchen lacks any "bar" or barrier between the kitchen and the dinning table. That's a big negative for me in design, as there is very little counter space. Of course, it is also not AT the ocean (like, for instance, Marriott Maui Ocean Club), it is across the street. And it is not in either Wailea or Kaanapali, it's basically in a residential area of Kehei close to the ocean. It seems you'd have to drive to any restaurants, golf, shopping, etc. The satellite view doesn't show a lot of beach and I'm not sure what the beach situation is.


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## Luanne (Apr 21, 2020)

I know where this property is, we drive by it all the time when we stay in Kihei.  I've even been to luau there, when it was the Maui Lu back in 1968, the first time I visited Hawaii.

When we were there end of February, beginning March, it didn't look like anything had been built yet.  There is fencing around the property so it's hard to see, but it looked mostly like a big hole in the ground.  The property is across the street from the beach.  This seems to bother some people a lot in that they'd have to cross the street to get to the beach.  Currently there is a cross walk, but no light, or even blinking lights.

We happen to love Kihei, we've owned there since 1987.  We are at the south end closer to Wailea.  We even have to get in our car to get to the grocery store or restaurants.  We've never stayed anywhere on the islands where we didn't need a car to do this.


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## lockewong (Apr 21, 2020)

I think the area is in Kihei near the Wailea border next the the Kamaole Park 3 boat ramp.  Is the Five Palms restaurant still next door or is that the space Hilton purchased?  Five Palms had an ocean view and had good sunset dinners.  Do you know if it is going to be HGVC or their Club timeshare?


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## Luanne (Apr 21, 2020)

lockewong said:


> I think the area is in Kihei near the Wailea border next the the Kamaole Park 3 boat ramp.  Is the Five Palms restaurant still next door or is that the space Hilton purchased?  Five Palms had an ocean view and had good sunset dinners.  Do you know if it is going to be HGVC or their Club timeshare?


No, it's at the other end of Kihei.

We own at Maui Lea at Maui Hill and that is in the location you're talking about, right across from the Five Palms restaurant.  The new Hilton is about 5 miles north of that.


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## lockewong (Apr 21, 2020)

Luanne said:


> No, it's at the other end of Kihei.
> 
> We own at Maui Lea at Maui Hill and that is in the location you're talking about, right across from the Five Palms restaurant.  The new Hilton is about 5 miles north of that.


Gotcha.  Thanks for the geography redirection.  Nora


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## ocdb8r (Apr 22, 2020)

csodjd said:


> The new HGV on Maui in Kihei (Maui Bay Villas) is either taking or about to start taking deposits from certain people. I had expressed an interest when it was first announced so I've been kept up to date and have received the offer. Initially only 1 and 2 BR, resort view and partial ocean view rooms are available. I was asked not to post prices so I won't. Suffice to say that they are developer prices, with various offers associated! (For instance, if you bought something on the resale market they'll credit you that amount and take that back and apply it to this purchase, which is helpful to be sure own in, say, Hawaii already.) The premier ocean view and 3-BR rooms will not be available for a while, time frame unknown. I am told these are being aggressively priced for the initial presale. That comes from a sales person, of course. Point values range from 9300 to 14400.
> 
> I note in the renderings that the kitchen lacks any "bar" or barrier between the kitchen and the dinning table. That's a big negative for me in design, as there is very little counter space. Of course, it is also not AT the ocean (like, for instance, Marriott Maui Ocean Club), it is across the street. And it is not in either Wailea or Kaanapali, it's basically in a residential area of Kehei close to the ocean. It seems you'd have to drive to any restaurants, golf, shopping, etc. The satellite view doesn't show a lot of beach and I'm not sure what the beach situation is.



Can you post more details on the points chart?  Have they given you any indication on opening date?


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## csodjd (Apr 22, 2020)

ocdb8r said:


> Can you post more details on the points chart?  Have they given you any indication on opening date?


There are only four room types initially available. 1-BR and 2-BR, resort view and partial open view. Points are 9300 and 12,600 for 1BR (MF=$2084), 12,600 and 14,400 for 2BR (MF=$2995). 

Not a specific opening date, no. But they require payment within sixty days and said they only have a "handful" available initially. (Which suggests to me there is a lot of construction still to come, making early owning even that much less desirable.)


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 22, 2020)

Thanks for posting @csodjd this helpful information. I presume the pricing is in line with Ocean Tower pre-construction prices I was offered? (approx $80k to $129k++). 

The points values seem worse for Maui. $2084 for 1 Bdrm and $2995 for a 2 bdrm partial ocean view.  The Westin Kaanapalis range from $2400 - $2700 for  2bdrm OF, OV, IV.  I believe Marriott Kaanapali are in the same range.

Plus I presume these are developer subsidized MF so we could expect those to rise after they sell out?

Either way, I will be happy to trade into this property when it becomes available.


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## ocdb8r (Apr 22, 2020)

Thanks, @csodjd!

Agree, looks a bit rich.  Disappointed to see the points so high, but can't say I'm surprised...however, I think they're overstretching for non and partial ocean view units across the street from the beach.  Totally agree that it will be nice to occasionally exchange into this resort....but not too often at those rates.


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## CalGalTraveler (Apr 22, 2020)

That's true. As we know the Westins and Marriott Kaanapali are right on the beach. You can also walk to restaurants on the boardwalk. You can also walk to grocery from the Westin properties. I wonder if they will offer a free shuttle to Kaanapali and Lahaina like the Westins. I find that very convenient.


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## SmithOp (Apr 22, 2020)

MF are a lot more than Kings Land for the same points, I pay about $1900 for 14,400 points. I doubt if I will be visiting this location, and wouldn’t even consider a resale purchase.

They will need to have a super pool like Kings Land to make it a resort stay experience since the location is not convenient to other options in the area. Some of the early concepts I saw had a resort pool and a beach pool.

It sounds like they are building from the back out to the front.  I suspect it will be the main pool with units around the pool, expanding out from there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## csodjd (Apr 22, 2020)

ocdb8r said:


> Thanks, @csodjd!
> 
> Agree, looks a bit rich.  Disappointed to see the points so high, but can't say I'm surprised...however, I think they're overstretching for non and partial ocean view units across the street from the beach.  Totally agree that it will be nice to occasionally exchange into this resort....but not too often at those rates.


I'm with you on that. As I told the agent, I'm not sure why I would spend that kind of money for this property and not spend less to buy a second 2-BR oceanfront at the Marriott (I already have a week there), especially since I already have 24,000+ HGV points at Lagoon Tower. And those MF fees would pay for a rental easily enough if I want to stay in Maui longer, and put me walking distance from restaurants, golf, strolls along the beach, bars, etc.


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## ocdb8r (Apr 22, 2020)

I actually don't mind the location and was originally thinking it would be a nice change of pace from Kaanapali where we've been staying for 20 years.  There's a public bus that goes straight down Kihei Rd that would provide access to quite a few places to eat in the area.  It's not a "resort-like" as Kaanapali, but there are some great places to eat.  Combined with easier access to Wailea (if you have a car), I think it's a decent location.  That said, I just don't think it can command a premium over the Kaanapali area resorts (no matter how "super" the pool  ).

Regardless, it will be nice to have another option in Hawaii and if they can get units online, I think the inventory will take some pressure off all the points being banked this year and next.


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## Luanne (Apr 22, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> That's true. As we know the Westins and Marriott Kaanapali are right on the beach. You can also walk to restaurants on the boardwalk. You can also walk to grocery from the Westin properties. I wonder if they will offer a free shuttle to Kaanapali and Lahaina like the Westins. I find that very convenient.


I would think if they offered a free shuttle it would be to Wailea, or maybe into Kihei.


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## buzglyd (Apr 22, 2020)

You better really want to go to Maui to pay those fees. The Maui maintenance fees are always so high because the property tax.


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## jehb2 (Apr 29, 2020)

csodjd said:


> Points are 9300 and 12,600 for 1BR (MF=$2084), 12,600 and 14,400 for 2BR (MF=$2995).





CalGalTraveler said:


> I presume the pricing is in line with Ocean Tower pre-construction prices I was offered? (approx $80k to $129k++).



Just factoring in the purchase price and 10 years of MF for the 9300 point unit.  That’s $1,400 a night!


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## aland0524 (May 1, 2020)

csodjd said:


> The new HGV on Maui in Kihei (Maui Bay Villas) is either taking or about to start taking deposits from certain people. I had expressed an interest when it was first announced so I've been kept up to date and have received the offer.



I was also interested in this HGV Maui property but could never figure out who to contact. (I actually started a thread a few months ago on this also.) Do you know or have information on who to contact to get more info on this new Kihei resort? We'll be in Maui starting Feb 12, 2021 and would be interested in seeing if we can get a promotional offer to stay on property assuming they can get the place open on time. Or even take a tour of the property.


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## csodjd (May 1, 2020)

aland0524 said:


> I was also interested in this HGV Maui property but could never figure out who to contact. (I actually started a thread a few months ago on this also.) Do you know or have information on who to contact to get more info on this new Kihei resort? We'll be in Maui starting Feb 12, 2021 and would be interested in seeing if we can get a promotional offer to stay on property assuming they can get the place open on time. Or even take a tour of the property.


Here is the individual that reached out to me with information about purchasing:

*Michael Greggo*

Luxury Vacation Counselor, President’s Circle
*T* 808-942-2345 *C* 602-330-5199
1811 Ala Moana Boulevard, Honolulu, HI 96815
*E* michael.greggo@hgv.com *W* hiltongrandvacations.com


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## aland0524 (May 2, 2020)

Thanks! Info much appreciated.


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## GregT (May 2, 2020)

To the OP,

Did they send you a brochure or anything electronic that you can post here (and yet not include the pricing?)  I'd love to see the renderings for the units.   I am also a fan of Kihei and love the beaches in South Maui.  This will be an interesting project to monitor.   Thanks very much!

Best,

Greg


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## chiflado (May 4, 2020)

Just read that tentative opening date for HGV Maui is Q1 2022


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## csodjd (May 5, 2020)

GregT said:


> To the OP,
> 
> Did they send you a brochure or anything electronic that you can post here (and yet not include the pricing?)  I'd love to see the renderings for the units.   I am also a fan of Kihei and love the beaches in South Maui.  This will be an interesting project to monitor.   Thanks very much!
> 
> ...


No brochure. Just this link:

https://club.hiltongrandvacations.c...ui-bay-villas-by-hilton-grand-vacations-club/

In looking at the pictures we were quite unimpressed with the kitchen layout. Almost no counter space. No serving area. It also doesn't show any balcony or outside area, though can't be sure from a rendering. And though they show nice ocean views, that's not available now, and I'm a bit skeptical since the actual hotel is not on the ocean, but across the street from it. Suffice to say that I was underwhelmed. With MF of ~$3k for a 2BR partial ocean view, I could RENT an ocean FRONT 2BR at the Marriott for every year for the next 25 years before approaching my break even point.


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## lds337 (May 7, 2020)

csodjd said:


> No brochure. Just this link:
> 
> https://club.hiltongrandvacations.c...ui-bay-villas-by-hilton-grand-vacations-club/
> 
> In looking at the pictures we were quite unimpressed with the kitchen layout. Almost no counter space. No serving area. It also doesn't show any balcony or outside area, though can't be sure from a rendering. And though they show nice ocean views, that's not available now, and I'm a bit skeptical since the actual hotel is not on the ocean, but across the street from it. Suffice to say that I was underwhelmed. With MF of ~$3k for a 2BR partial ocean view, I could RENT an ocean FRONT 2BR at the Marriott for every year for the next 25 years before approaching my break even point.



OMG!!! The link you shared shows the high end of the purchase price range at $499k. The break even point is probably somewhere in 2222. My Great Great Great Great Great Grandchildren will love it




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## csodjd (May 8, 2020)

lds337 said:


> OMG!!! The link you shared shows the high end of the purchase price range at $499k. The break even point is probably somewhere in 2222. My Great Great Great Great Great Grandchildren will love it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but, it's close to the ocean.


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## vacationbear (May 8, 2020)

lds337 said:


> OMG!!! The link you shared shows the high end of the purchase price range at $499k. The break even point is probably somewhere in 2222. My Great Great Great Great Great Grandchildren will love it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right, I did not want to belief it at first:
Per the link on the members website: _Prices range from $30,900 - $499,990_

$500k for one week Maui? PLUS an ever increasing annual MF???
I did not know that COVID can also attack the area of the brain that deals with financial sanity...


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## Sandy VDH (May 8, 2020)

That is the same kitchen design that they use at Kings' Land.  It looks like there is not a lot of counter space, but I found it was more than adequate.  Removing the kitchen sit up bar, opens up the room.  Allows more space in a smaller footprint.


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## csodjd (May 8, 2020)

Sandy VDH said:


> That is the same kitchen design that they use at Kings' Land.  It looks like there is not a lot of counter space, but I found it was more than adequate.  Removing the kitchen sit up bar, opens up the room.  Allows more space in a smaller footprint.


However, I stayed at Kings Land earlier this year, and the rooms are large. The kitchen in my room was large, and it DID have a "bar" area, which we used extensively. And, dollar for dollar, Kings Land is a fraction the price.


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## Mowogo (May 9, 2020)

vacationbear said:


> You are right, I did not want to belief it at first:
> Per the link on the members website: _Prices range from $30,900 - $499,990_
> 
> $500k for one week Maui? PLUS an ever increasing annual MF???
> I did not know that COVID can also attack the area of the brain that deals with financial sanity...


When you consider that a low season bottom tier studio is $30,900, I can easily see how the multi-bedroom options can easily get to $500,000 for the area.  And before COVID, I can actually see people paying that much.  While Kihei is not as high end as Wailea a few miles down the road, you are only a couple of miles from a location where base hotel rooms can easily run $800+ a night(Andaz, Grand Wailea, and Fairmount with Four Seasons even higher).  Add in that HGVC is in a higher tier than the other timeshares in the area, and I could actually see arguments that they could charge more just due to the relative lack of available higher end timeshares in the area


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## CalGalTraveler (May 9, 2020)

IMHO...I would spend $25k - $30k (or half that for EOY) for resale 2bdrm Westin or Marriott Oceanfront in Kaanapali. MF $2800 per week or
$1400 per week for 2 weeks OF if you lockoff into a 1 bdrm and studio for each week.

If I want to rent to cover MF I can easily lock off the Westin or Marriott and rent half the unit. No way to do this with HGVC Maui which would be a full home week rental of 2 bdrm.

I would invest the rest of the $100 - $500k in GNMA fund or CD paying 2%+

20 years from now: Potential loss minimal $25k - $30k resale. CD capital preserved with annual 2% interest which pays for MF. Compare that to potential loss of HGVC Maui to heavily depreciated resale price.



I will be happy to use club points for HGVC Maui to augment stays at our Westin unit.


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## vacationtime1 (May 9, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> IMHO...I would spend $25k - $30k (or half that for EOY) for resale 2bdrm Westin or Marriott Oceanfront in Kaanapali. MF $2800 per week or
> $1400 per week for 2 weeks OF if you lockoff into a 1 bdrm and studio for each week.
> 
> If I want to rent to cover MF I can easily lock off the Westin or Marriott and rent half the unit. No way to do this with HGVC Maui which would be a full home week rental of 2 bdrm.
> ...



+1

imho, the suggested retail prices for the Hilton Maui property are in Fantasyland for a high-end, but poorly located timeshare.  It's not like Hilton has a magic wand or a unique location; there are many other better properties on Maui at far lower prices, timeshare and otherwise.

However, HGVC has successfully built more and more expensive timeshares on its existing properties in Honolulu and Waikoloa.  Does anyone know whether the $100K+ units in these properties have sold?  And to whom?


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 10, 2020)

vacationtime1 said:


> +1
> 
> imho, the suggested retail prices for the Hilton Maui property are in Fantasyland for a high-end, but poorly located timeshare.  It's not like Hilton has a magic wand or a unique location; there are many other better properties on Maui at far lower prices, timeshare and otherwise.
> 
> However, HGVC has successfully built more and more expensive timeshares on its existing properties in Honolulu and Waikoloa.  Does anyone know whether the $100K+ units in these properties have sold?  And to whom?



I do know that during their quarterly investor calls over the past year or so HGV reported that both Grand Islander in Honolulu and Ocean Tower in Waikoloa sold much faster than expected.  In particular the higher priced inventory sold so fast that they reported a shortage of high priced units.  

Not sure who purchased these, and how current economy will impact sales in Maui,  but certainly the timeshare market will not be as strong in the near future.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 10, 2020)

I believe they are targeting Asian buyers. Perhaps such countries don't have robust resources like TUG in their language and don't trust resale?


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## dayooper (May 10, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I believe they are targeting Asian buyers. Perhaps such countries don't have robust resources like TUG in their language and don't trust resale?



This was my thought, too. I wondered if these half a million weeks aren’t during one of the holidays that are sometimes mentioned here.


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## tha (May 10, 2020)

Does HGVC own the land between S. Kihei Rd and the ocean? Their promotional material suggests they do. From driving by I've never had that impression.

"Ocean Front Beach Club":









						Hilton Grand Vacations - Maui Bay Villas, a Hilton Grand Vacations
					

Hilton Grand Vacations is committed to the idea that life is incomplete without vacations. Our distinctive resort collection features luxurious accommodations in renowned destinations with the quality service that is synonymous with the Hilton name.




					club.hiltongrandvacations.com


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## Luanne (May 10, 2020)

tha said:


> Does HGVC own the land between S. Kihei Rd and the ocean? Their promotional material suggests they do. From driving by I've never had that impression.
> 
> "Ocean Front Beach Club":
> 
> ...


It sounds like Hilton might own the land, or at least have a leasehold on it, as they are doing some clean up and development on that side of the road.


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## Tamaradarann (May 11, 2020)

Mowogo said:


> When you consider that a low season bottom tier studio is $30,900, I can easily see how the multi-bedroom options can easily get to $500,000 for the area.  And before COVID, I can actually see people paying that much.  While Kihei is not as high end as Wailea a few miles down the road, you are only a couple of miles from a location where base hotel rooms can easily run $800+ a night(Andaz, Grand Wailea, and Fairmount with Four Seasons even higher).  Add in that HGVC is in a higher tier than the other timeshares in the area, and I could actually see arguments that they could charge more just due to the relative lack of available higher end timeshares in the area



It will be interesting to see how these units sell.  Pre and Post COVID could definitely make quite a difference at least in the short run.  

From my perspective Maui is nice but you need a car to enjoy the area which is a major negative for us now since we love the freedom of vacationing without a car, and will become more of a negative as we get older and not want to drive at all.  That is why we love Honolulu.  I wonder if they will have a free shuttle service to get from the airport and go food shopping.  Maui is also somewhat "sterile" which may be an attractive quality for some people but not for us.  We enjoy taking the bus, walking around people in Waikiki, Kakaako or Downtown Honolulu.  After the COVID virus that may change, but perhaps our entire thoughts about Travel and Hawaii may change also.

From a different perspecitve Maui has a magical ring to it for certain people.  I remember when I was younger hearing people raving about going to Maui with excitement in their voice.  I actually didn't realize that Maui was a Hawaiian Island.  While I knew that Hawaii was a state in the United States, I thought that Maui was a magical paradise someplace in the world that was so extra special.  That specialness may enable them to charge and get the extra bucks.  It won't be from me for developer pricing or resale pricing.


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## jcjohns (May 12, 2020)

csodjd said:


> The new HGV on Maui in Kihei (Maui Bay Villas) is either taking or about to start taking deposits from certain people. I had expressed an interest when it was first announced so I've been kept up to date and have received the offer. Initially only 1 and 2 BR, resort view and partial ocean view rooms are available. I was asked not to post prices so I won't. Suffice to say that they are developer prices, with various offers associated! (For instance, if you bought something on the resale market they'll credit you that amount and take that back and apply it to this purchase, which is helpful to be sure own in, say, Hawaii already.) The premier ocean view and 3-BR rooms will not be available for a while, time frame unknown. I am told these are being aggressively priced for the initial presale. That comes from a sales person, of course. Point values range from 9300 to 14400.
> 
> I note in the renderings that the kitchen lacks any "bar" or barrier between the kitchen and the dinning table. That's a big negative for me in design, as there is very little counter space. Of course, it is also not AT the ocean (like, for instance, Marriott Maui Ocean Club), it is across the street. And it is not in either Wailea or Kaanapali, it's basically in a residential area of Kehei close to the ocean. It seems you'd have to drive to any restaurants, golf, shopping, etc. The satellite view doesn't show a lot of beach and I'm not sure what the beach situation is.


The property is near the whale institute in North Kehei. I own 2 weeks at hgvc and as much as I love Maui, I would not stay in that area. Probably the windiest section of beach on the west side. I love Kehei, but South Kehei near Wailea. I was hoping they would build in Kaanapali or convert something in South Kehei but when a salesman told me where it was I just shook my head. I'll stick with Waikoloa.


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## GTLINZ (May 12, 2020)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I do know that during their quarterly investor calls over the past year or so HGV reported that both Grand Islander in Honolulu and Ocean Tower in Waikoloa sold much faster than expected.  In particular the higher priced inventory sold so fast that they reported a shortage of high priced units.



If you have ever been to the HHV you will understand that there is a large number of Japanese tourist who go to to Hawaii. Very nice people but strange to sit thru the historical movie with them at Pearl Harbor documenting them bombing it.  I doubt the prices seem as high to them.

The sad part is that the Kaanapali Beach club was originally an Embassy Suites timeshare or ES proper - and therefore under Hilton control. No idea how they let that one go. We booked thru exchange and loved the location.  We could watch the whales jumping and sunsets over Molokai and Lanai were spectacular.  We even had a view of Lanai from the lanai


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## rabmsn (May 13, 2020)

This (I *fully *agree):  


jcjohns said:


> Probably the windiest section of beach on the west side.


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## fillde (May 13, 2020)

vacationbear said:


> You are right, I did not want to belief it at first:
> Per the link on the members website: _Prices range from $30,900 - $499,990_
> 
> $500k for one week Maui? PLUS an ever increasing annual MF???
> I did not know that COVID can also attack the area of the brain that deals with financial sanity...


I’ll wait for resale and buy at 399,990.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 13, 2020)

You could probably buy a small condo on Maui for that price and use/rent it year round.


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## csodjd (May 13, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> You could probably buy a small condo on Maui for that price and use/rent it year round.


But then you wouldn't get fresh linen service twice a week.


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## Luanne (May 13, 2020)

csodjd said:


> But then you wouldn't get fresh linen service twice a week.


You could probably find a service that would do that for you, clean linen and even change your sheets for your, for a price.


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## HGVC Lover (May 13, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> You could probably buy a small condo on Maui for that price and use/rent it year round.



It would probably be very very small condo at that price for Maui and the association fees are usually easily $500 plus dollars or more a month.  
Property management is tricky in Hawaii now too with all of the new restrictive laws limiting vacation rentals.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 13, 2020)

Small yes but no/low capital loss...also not a resort just apartments. Just performed a Realtor.com search and saw a bunch in the $300k - $500k range. Most in the 1 bdrm but some 2 bdrms.  500/mo MF would be easily offset by 1 week a month rental.









						Maui, HI Real Estate - Maui Homes for Sale | realtor.com®
					

View 103 homes for sale in Maui, HI at a median listing home price of $1,100,000. See pricing and listing details of Maui real estate for sale.




					www.realtor.com
				




Alternatively, trade using club points...no incremental cost or capital risk.


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## Luanne (May 13, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Small yes but no/low capital loss...also not a resort just apartments. Just performed a Realtor.com search and saw a bunch in the $300k - $500k range. Most in the 1 bdrm but some 2 bdrms.  500/mo MF would be easily offset by 1 week a month rental.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On our last trip to Maui (March 2020) I was talking to a couple who were on the same whale watch tour we were.  They are Canadian and said they come every year for a few months.  They bought a condo in Kihei a few years back, when the Canadian dollar was stronger.  They didn't mention if they rent it out during the time they're not there.  But they seemed quite happy with their purchase.


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## csodjd (May 13, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Small yes but no/low capital loss...also not a resort just apartments. Just performed a Realtor.com search and saw a bunch in the $300k - $500k range. Most in the 1 bdrm but some 2 bdrms.  500/mo MF would be easily offset by 1 week a month rental.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bumped the number up to $750k and found a really nice place. 3BR ocean front. But, it's a leasehold. So not nearly enough information to know much of anything. Big difference between 50 years and 10 years.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 14, 2020)

I see some good real estate deals on Maui in the near future.


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## HGVC Lover (May 14, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Small yes but no/low capital loss...also not a resort just apartments. Just performed a Realtor.com search and saw a bunch in the $300k - $500k range. Most in the 1 bdrm but some 2 bdrms.  500/mo MF would be easily offset by 1 week a month rental.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Having lived in Hawaii for many year and also owning a home I would advise you to go look at property first.  Pictures are very deceiving, most condos were built decades ago, you have the leasehold issues and association fees can be very pricey for very limited amenities.

Hawaii real estate is very expensive compared to what you can get on the mainland.  Also, property taxes are very high for owners who do not live on island full time and have their property managed.  In Hawaii, you cannot property manage property yourself, but have to hire a local company to do that.  Just more costs for your investment which many times does not pencil out to a profit or paying for the property fully.  Also, if you own often times you are only able to use it two weeks a year under certain tax codes.

I am sure that the majority of condo owners who rent to tourists are really hurting now because there are no tourist and it could be a long time before the islands are actually opened up again where visitors do not have to quarantine for 14 days in their dwellings (not outside at a pool or beach).  Also, if locals see the few tourists who are here breaking quarantine they are almost always reported, fined and often times taken to the airport and put on a plane home.

Makes no sense to have such a stringent lock down policy island wide and then allow people to come from all over not knowing it they have COVID-19 or not especially from other states.  

But I always love to see people buy in Hawaii because the life style is spectacular, usually it is very hard to lose money on Hawaii real estate if you can afford it and it makes real estate prices go up which is awesome for us.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 14, 2020)

HGVC Lover said:


> Having lived in Hawaii for many year and also owning a home I would advise you to go look at property first.  Pictures are very deceiving, most condos were built decades ago, you have the leasehold issues and association fees can be very pricey for very limited amenities.
> 
> Hawaii real estate is very expensive compared to what you can get on the mainland.  Also, property taxes are very high for owners who do not live on island full time and have their property managed.  In Hawaii, you cannot property manage property yourself, but have to hire a local company to do that.  Just more costs for your investment which many times does not pencil out to a profit or paying for the property fully.  Also, if you own often times you are only able to use it two weeks a year under certain tax codes.
> 
> ...



Yes, photos can be deceiving. We wouldn't make such a large purchase sight unseen.

As an owner of a second home/short term vacation rental, I completely agree with your observations of the challenges. One way around the AirBnB limits is to rent the unit for more than 31 days to snow-birders which circumvents most short-term vacation rental laws and avoids TOT taxes.

Eventually one could turn it into a multi-month second home when retired.  However, I still like the resort feel, and housekeeping of the timeshares and not having to worry about maintenance and cleaning (which is a pain) so using our timeshares would be preferred because less hassle and less costly.


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## Tamaradarann (May 15, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Yes, photos can be deceiving. We wouldn't make such a large purchase sight unseen.
> 
> As an owner of a second home/short term vacation rental, I completely agree with your observations of the challenges. One way around the AirBnB limits is to rent the unit for more than 31 days to snow-birders which circumvents most short-term vacation rental laws and avoids TOT taxes.
> 
> Eventually one could turn it into a multi-month second home when retired.  However, I still like the resort feel, and housekeeping of the timeshares and not having to worry about maintenance and cleaning (which is a pain) so using our timeshares would be preferred because less hassle and less costly.



I thought that you had to pay the TOT if you rented for less than 6 months?


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## Tamaradarann (May 15, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> I thought that you had to pay the TOT if you rented for less than 6 months?



There are so many taxes in Hawaii that I may have the wrong one named.  If I understand it correctly if you have any kind of business transaction, which includes renting an accomocation you own, you need to pay the GET which is about 4-4.5%.  If you rent for less than 6 months, you need to pay a hotel tax which is about 10%.


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## Blues (Jul 10, 2020)

chiflado said:


> Just read that tentative opening date for HGV Maui is Q1 2022



Yep, that's the date still showing on the HGVC club page.

I just found out that a former consulting client of mine is now the Research Coordinator at the Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary in Kihei.  So I dropped him an email to ask his opinion of the HGVC construction across the street from him.  His response:

"It does seem like they are making progress on it.  They shut the main road down recently for several weeks as part of the construction. We're all working from home these days, so I have not seen the recent progress, but I'll let you know what I see the next time I go down there.  2022 seems like a reasonable target finishing date."

Bob


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## rabmsn (Jul 30, 2020)

*Form 8-K Hilton Grand Vacations For: Jul 30*

From the "overview" section:
...
Net income and Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter ended June 30, 2020, included a net deferral of $3 million relating to sales made at The Central at 5th by Hilton Club, Ocean Tower at Hilton Grand Vacations Club Phase II and *Maui Bay Villas* projects, which were under construction during the period. The *Company anticipates recognizing these revenues and related expenses in 2021* when it expects to complete these projects and recognize the net deferral impacts.


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## travelove (Jul 31, 2020)

vacationbear said:


> You are right, I did not want to belief it at first:
> Per the link on the members website: _Prices range from $30,900 - $499,990_
> 
> $500k for one week Maui? PLUS an ever increasing annual MF???
> I did not know that COVID can also attack the area of the brain that deals with financial sanity...


now I'm scared of COVID


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 1, 2020)

travelove said:


> now I'm scared of COVID



How many points do you get for the 500K.  If you get about 115,000 HGVC points you could stay forever at the Lagoon Tower in a Studio.  That is not a bad price for a small condo on the Ocean in Waikiki and even if the maintenance was $5000/year that would not be a high maintenance for a condo in that location!


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## GT75 (Aug 1, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> If you get about 115,000 HGVC points


I don't really know, but fairly certain it won't be that many.


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## dayooper (Aug 1, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> How many points do you get for the 500K.  If you get about 115,000 HGVC points you could stay forever at the Lagoon Tower in a Studio.  That is not a bad price for a small condo on the Ocean in Waikiki and even if the maintenance was $5000/year that would not be a high maintenance for a condo in that location!



$0.04 a point! 

Yeah, I don’t see that happening. Something like 30,000 - 35,000 points? There are some regular HGVC that have 28,000 points so a high priced week should be higher. 

I just can’t comprehend spending that much on a week.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 1, 2020)

dayooper said:


> $0.04 a point!
> 
> Yeah, I don’t see that happening. Something like 30,000 - 35,000 points? There are some regular HGVC that have 28,000 points so a high priced week should be higher.
> 
> I just can’t comprehend spending that much on a week.



Well I asked about 115,000 point number of points since that would be the number needed for 52 weeks in a Studio in the Lagoon Tower.  However, the Grand Waikiki Penthouse 3BR Platinum weeks do have 28,000 points and I believe their cost a few years ago was $135,000.   I know that HGVC raises the price of weeks all the time without regard to what is going in the world so even though people are not traveling right now they could have raised the Grand Waikiki Penthouse price to much higher.  But based on what they were selling the 28,000 points for it wouldn't be unreasonable to get around 100,000 points for 500K.


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## SmithOp (Aug 2, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> Well I asked about 115,000 point number of points since that would be the number needed for 52 weeks in a Studio in the Lagoon Tower. However, the Grand Waikiki Penthouse 3BR Platinum weeks do have 28,000 points and I believe their cost a few years ago was $135,000. I know that HGVC raises the price of weeks all the time without regard to what is going in the world so even though people are not traveling right now they could have raised the Grand Waikiki Penthouse price to much higher. But based on what they were selling the 28,000 points for it wouldn't be unreasonable to get around 100,000 points for 500K.



You are considering a multiple week purchase to get to over 100k points, the prices quoted for Maui are a single week so not likely to garner that many points. You do have an interesting proposition buying 4 GW PH weeks then staying in a studio.

I just looked at the web site and the pricing has changed, its even higher but it applies to all the properties so no way to know what Maui pricing will be yet. The high end could be 4br Crane in Barbados.


Prices range from $8,450 - $772,990; prices are subject to change. Hilton Grand Vacations Club, LLC is the exchange agent. The Sales Agent is Hilton Resorts Corporation (dba Hilton Grand Vacations) located at 6355 Metrowest Blvd. Orlando, FL 32835. Hilton Resorts Corporation and its wholly owned subsidiaries are also the developer of timeshare interests in Florida, Nevada, Illinois, Hawaii, New York, Barbados, Mexico and Japan. 

The Developer/Seller of Maui Bay Villas Vacation Suites is Kupono Partners LLC located at 6355 MetroWest Boulevard, Orlando, FL 32835. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 2, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> You are considering a multiple week purchase to get to over 100k points, the prices quoted for Maui are a single week so not likely to garner that many points. You do have an interesting proposition buying 4 GW PH weeks then staying in a studio.
> 
> I just looked at the web site and the pricing has changed, its even higher but it applies to all the properties so no way to know what Maui pricing will be yet. The high end could be 4br Crane in Barbados.
> 
> ...



I am NOT considering purchasing 4 GW PH weeks or any other HGVC purchase at this time.  We have 34,600 points which have sucessfully gotten us a Studio at the Hilton Hawaiian Village for the winter since 2009.  However, we now own a 2 BR condo right across the street fromt the Hilton Hawaiian Village.  The Studio in the Lagoon Tower is a sub size Studio and is very small without a Lanai.  We endured that accomodation for years to enable us to stay that long but have outgrown that accommodation.  At 70+ years old we feel we need to have a little more comfortable accommodations WHEN? we go again to Hawaii.  The question mark is for emphasis on WHEN.  We still have plane reservations for Novamber but most probably our plans will be put off until sometime in 2021.


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## rabmsn (Apr 10, 2021)

Progress must be happening--*Chief Engineer - Maui Bay Villas in Kihei HI* job posting:

_Job Description What will I be doing? As a Chief Engineer , you would be responsible for executing your positions responsibilities in alignment with our Spirit of Service culture and driving company success through performing the following tasks to the highest standards The Chief Engineer sets strategic goals, guides performance, and leads all aspects of the resort maintenance, landscaping related operations. Overall responsibility to ensure the full functionality and safety of all resort facilities, protect the well-being of guests, Owners and Team Members while optimizing asset maintenance and preservation. Develops and executes critical initiatives in the Maintenance Department and adjusts the operations in order to meet the needs of the resort. Able to train, empower and build a team that is successful in maintaining the asset and grows as the resort expands Develops clear goals and ensures that policies and guidance are in place that clearly defines the responsibilities and processes to be successful Maintains compliance with the organization, business and financial regulations Conducts consistent inspections of each aspect of the resort and ensures all equipment and resort features are properly maintained and operating at full capacity Understands and able to trouble shoot operational performance of mechanical and related systems throughout the resort Manages and supervises all preventative maintenance programs and standards related to the Synergy work request system. Liaison between onsite team and project management and development teams for renovations and build out of the resort phases Ensures the property Emergency Preparedness and Safety Awareness plans are always accurate and in compliance Develops and manages the financial operations of the department and meets all budgeted expectations Monitors and evaluates team member performance to include, but not limited to, providing supervision and professional development, conducting counseling and evaluations and delivering recognition and reward Works closely with Resort Leadership within all departments and is a great teammate We offer an excellent benefit package to our full-time Team Members that include medical, dental and vision insurance, 401K plan, Paid Time Off (PTO) program and extraordinary travel benefits Qualifications What are we looking for? 7 years related experience in property operations 3 years of management experience including supervision of professional and line level staff Excellent interpersonal skills, computer literacy, problem solving and strategic decision making High school diploma/GED It would be advantageous in this position for you to demonstrate the following capabilities and distinctions Experience working on the island of Maui and/or a hotel/resort in the state of Hawaii Resort pre-opening experience Vacation ownership/hospitality experience Trade Certifications Bachelors degree We are an equal opportunity employer and value diversity at our company. We do not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, color, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, age, marital status, veteran status, or disability status. We will ensure that individuals with disabilities are provided reasonable accommodation to participate in the job application or interview process, to perform essential job functions, and to receive other benefits and privileges of employment. Please contact us to request accommodation. _


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## csodjd (Apr 10, 2021)

We drove by the property yesterday. Appears one building is largely built, and another well underway. But they are starting with the area furthest up the hill and away from the beach. It certainly does not appear anywhere near ready for any visitors, but was actively being worked on.


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## rabmsn (May 14, 2021)

Maui Bay Villas is live on Hilton.com: https://www.hilton.com/en/hotels/oggmbgv-maui-bay-villas-by-hilton-grand-vacations/


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## csodjd (May 14, 2021)

rabmsn said:


> Maui Bay Villas is live on Hilton.com: https://www.hilton.com/en/hotels/oggmbgv-maui-bay-villas-by-hilton-grand-vacations/


We have an “owners” presentation this morning that my wife agreed to attend for the perk. I’m expecting a Maui sales pitch since we already own 3 Hilton timeshares in Oahu. My only interest is timing and ability to use our points over there.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 14, 2021)

Thanks for sharing. Interesting that the Hilton.com amenities list does not show the swimming pool or beach.  Perhaps they will open for stays but won't open amenities until later. @csodjd can you ask whether the pool/beach will be available at the same time the resort opens?


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## Islander7 (May 14, 2021)

Interesting that they say they are opening this September as opposed to the HGVC website which states Q1 2022.

"We're opening in September 2021, but aren't accepting reservations yet." from Hilton website.


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## Sandy VDH (May 14, 2021)

Islander7 said:


> Interesting that they say they are opening this September as opposed to the HGVC website which states Q1 2022.
> 
> "We're opening in September 2021, but aren't accepting reservations yet." from Hilton website.



I think that message is dated, and has not been updated since Covid hit.  That was the pre-covid date.


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## csodjd (May 15, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thanks for sharing. Interesting that the Hilton.com amenities list does not show the swimming pool or beach.  Perhaps they will open for stays but won't open amenities until later. @csodjd can you ask whether the pool/beach will be available at the same time the resort opens?


Showed up and they didn’t find our appointment. So we left without talking to anyone.


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## frank808 (May 15, 2021)

csodjd said:


> Showed up and they didn’t find our appointment. So we left without talking to anyone.


is your presentation at Hilton Hawaiian Village? If so, are any of your HGVC units bought direct? Or are they all resale? Going on a hunch here.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk


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## csodjd (May 15, 2021)

frank808 said:


> is your presentation at Hilton Hawaiian Village? If so, are any of your HGVC units bought direct? Or are they all resale? Going on a hunch here.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk


Yes. All three are resale purchases. 

Here‘s how this came about. My wife called HHV to ask if any of the bars or restaurants onsite had opened. The woman asked a few questions, she answered the questions about what’s open, then said she sees we are owners and have not been to an owners presentation in a long time and would like to schedule us. My wife put me on the phone since I knew our schedule here. She was very insistent. We agreed on this morning at 8:15. Alas, no record of us being scheduled.


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## frank808 (May 15, 2021)

At HHV they have denied me every time to do a presentation after one over a decade ago.  I was told since I only own resale, we do not qualify.  My guess is that the scheduler did not notice you only own resale.  Therefore they were not supposed to schedule you.  Someone else found out and took you off the presentation without notifying you.  

Years ago we got into a presentation and was told that we did not qualify.  Stayed the 60 minutes and got our $250 Hilton bucks.  Next time we were asked again and scheduled.  Got a call the next day saying it was a mistake and we do not qualify for the presentation.  Every time at HHV when we are asked, when they put our name in their computer, I am told I do not qualify.  This is only at HHV as we were able to do presentations in Orlando.  This is just my experience and resale only buyers are not welcome for a presentation at HHV.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 15, 2021)

We've had one of the best meetings at HHV and one of the worst. In the latter the rep saw that we attended multiple VIP presentations and scolded us that we are only supposed to have one of these and that we would never be allowed to attend a presentation again. (Like we should know the rules?!?) Despite this we attended many VIP presentations since, enjoying the gifts and discounted stays.  We own one developer unit in addition to resale so that must get us over the hurdle. Will take the freebees as long as they will give them to us. I view the gifts as payback for overpaying for developer.


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## csodjd (May 15, 2021)

frank808 said:


> At HHV they have denied me every time to do a presentation after one over a decade ago.  I was told since I only own resale, we do not qualify.  My guess is that the scheduler did not notice you only own resale.  Therefore they were not supposed to schedule you.  Someone else found out and took you off the presentation without notifying you.
> 
> Years ago we got into a presentation and was told that we did not qualify.  Stayed the 60 minutes and got our $250 Hilton bucks.  Next time we were asked again and scheduled.  Got a call the next day saying it was a mistake and we do not qualify for the presentation.  Every time at HHV when we are asked, when they put our name in their computer, I am told I do not qualify.  This is only at HHV as we were able to do presentations in Orlando.  This is just my experience and resale only buyers are not welcome for a presentation at HHV.


Could be what happened. However, there are also no resale units in Maui and that’s what she said they would be telling us about. That said, if I were them I too wouldn’t be too excited about “selling” to someone that they know is going to use the information to buy from someone else.


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## CanuckTravlr (May 15, 2021)

csodjd said:


> Could be what happened. However, there are also no resale units in Maui and that’s what she said they would be telling us about. That said, if I were them I too wouldn’t be too excited about “selling” to someone that they know is going to use the information to buy from someone else.



You're right of course that there aren't any resale units yet in Maui,  since the original developer sales have only just started.  But there will eventually be resales, just as with every other completed HGVC resort.  It's just a matter of patience, if you can stand to wait.  I suspect the presentation mix-up was just a scheduling mistake, but who knows?


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## csodjd (May 15, 2021)

CanuckTravlr said:


> I love that she indicated there are no resale units in Maui!  Duh!!  Of course there aren't, since the original developer sales have only just started.  But there will eventually be resales, just as with every other completed HGVC resort.  It's just a matter of patience.


There will be, yes. But given what they are charging for Developer sales, it may be a while! My main interest there is what the point values will be for accessing it using using points. I’m wondering if they are going to ration their inventory of rooms available that way.


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## CanuckTravlr (May 15, 2021)

I fully expect the points values will be comparable to (or maybe even higher than) some of the other new developments, which have generally been higher than older resorts.  That seems to be the pattern.  Since Maui is considered a desirable location and this is the only HGVC resort, I suspect they will try to make the most of that.  We will have to wait and see.

Yes, it will likely be awhile before resales start showing up, but I think it has less to do with the amount initially invested.  All it takes is an economic downturn and/or people not being able to use them the way they wanted to or thought they could.  That is not always a function of the price paid.


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## alwysonvac (May 15, 2021)

Maui Bay Villas Point chart was posted in the 2021 Club Reference Guide



alwysonvac said:


>


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## frank808 (May 15, 2021)

Figure resale units pop up no more than 24 months after sales start. The District resale started popping up less than a year after sales started. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## rjp123 (May 15, 2021)

The open season weekly rates are actually pretty good. At those prices it's almost no point in buying more points to be able to stay there. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


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## alwysonvac (May 15, 2021)

shhh ..


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## giowop (May 15, 2021)

rjp123 said:


> The open season weekly rates are actually pretty good. At those prices it's almost no point in buying more points to be able to stay there.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk



Agreed. $1659 for a platinum week 1-bedroom compared to 9300 points???


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## BK2019 (May 15, 2021)

giowop said:


> Agreed. $1659 for a platinum week 1-bedroom compared to 9300 points???


Don’t forget to add tax and fees on that $1659.


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## rjp123 (May 15, 2021)

giowop said:


> Agreed. $1659 for a platinum week 1-bedroom compared to 9300 points???


Maintenance fees must be Gonzo on this place. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


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## escanoe (May 15, 2021)

giowop said:


> Agreed. $1659 for a platinum week 1-bedroom compared to 9300 points???


My bet is it will be hard to get a week at open season rates. We will see how much it is on Hilton.com.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 16, 2021)

We have a VIP preso this summer at Kingland. Maybe they will be able to share MF info by then.

I expect they will offer good MF to point ratios. The high point units may be more available because those owners will likely use their points for lower point units to stretch the value.


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## brp (May 16, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> We have a VIP preso this summer at Kingland. Maybe they will be able to share MF info by then.
> 
> I expect they will offer good MF to point ratios. The high point units may be more available because those owners will likely use their points for lower point units to stretch the value.



We get offered presentations each time we go to NYC, presumably due to W. 57th ownership, even though it's resale. We don't get advance offers at any other locations, though. The perks in NYC are the best, so that's the only location we consider anyway.

Cheers.


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## DazedandConfused (May 16, 2021)

frank808 said:


> Figure resale units pop up no more than 24 months after sales start. The District resale started popping up less than a year after sales started.



But at what price....



giowop said:


> Agreed. $1659 for a platinum week 1-bedroom compared to 9300 points???



under $.18 per point is a very good deal


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