# Lazy River coming to Vidanta Riveria Maya (2017)



## holdaer (Nov 2, 2017)

I just read this on Vidanta's website.  The long awaited and abandoned lazy river will now be available exclusively to Grand Luxxe guests.

Here is the article:

*Soak Up the Fun*
With the debut of the Jungle Suite Towers comes another exciting announcement: the opening of a Grand Luxxe-exclusive Lazy River. The Lazy River will wind around the resort hotel and offer guests of Grand Luxxe Jungle Suites an even more exhilarating way to admire their beautiful surroundings. This much-anticipated attraction was designed as yet another way to celebrate the astonishing scenery of Vidanta Riviera Maya, allowing guests to interact with, and admire, the jungle landscape in a variety of ways throughout their stay.


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## rpennisi (Nov 2, 2017)

So to recap, the unfinished Mayan Palace buildings and the unfinished Mayan Palace lazy river is now Grand Luxxe only.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 2, 2017)

rpennisi said:


> So to recap, the unfinished Mayan Palace buildings and the unfinished Mayan Palace lazy river is now Grand Luxxe only.



Not a surprise

GL Jungle Suites & GL lazy river ( aka - the partial build / 10+ year old Mayan Palace (never opened) additional units ) is actually a very efficient repurposing of developer "sunk money " .

That said - I wonder how many folks pre -2008 were sold RM Mayan Palace TS contracts (in part ) based on the lazy river they could see was under construction .
I bet there are a couple of TUG threads somewhere in the archives that mention this

*****
found & added - from March 2009 - thread -Grand Mayan Riviera Maya
" lazy river still 6 months or so away " {Mikenk}

I am sure there are other  legacy updates -

*****
See - Vidafel /Grupo Mayan /Vidanta sales people "never lie" about future building & projects .
it is the alternate universe time lines that are the problem .


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## MuranoJo (Nov 3, 2017)

Can anyone tell me where the unfinished '10-year-old Mayan Palace additional units' referenced above are located?   Are they the older ones that snake out to the road, or were they they ones intended to be Bliss?


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## pittle (Nov 3, 2017)

rpennisi said:


> So to recap, the unfinished Mayan Palace buildings and the unfinished Mayan Palace lazy river is now Grand Luxxe only.



My thoughts exactly!

MuranoJo - I copied this from Google Earth.  The buildings top center are the ones that were nearly complete Mayan Palace units in 2005 when we went right after the hurricane and the lazy river was almost done then. I saw ithe lazy river from our MP upper floor unit one time in 2007 and someone posted a picture years ago, but I think they dug it up and now have rebuilt it. (They did that in Puerto Penasco).  Anyway you can see it near these newly renovated Grand Luxxe Jungle units.
https://pittle.smugmug.com/Timeshare/Sample-Gallery/i-vsprSc4/A


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## pittle (Nov 3, 2017)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Not a surprise
> 
> GL Jungle Suites & GL lazy river ( aka - the partial build / 10 year old Mayan Palace additional units ) is actually a very efficient repurposing of developer "sunk money " .
> 
> ...



  A picture of this in June 2006.  It has been in the works for ages!
https://pittle.smugmug.com/Mayan-Palace-Pools/n-gFLmc/i-JGZ2Tqm/A


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## bizaro86 (Nov 3, 2017)

I assume this will be available to all Grand Luxxe guests? 

But then probably shouldn't assume anything with vidanta


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## rpennisi (Nov 3, 2017)

The first unfinished MP building, that's the one perpendicular to MPs lobby building did become a Bliss building.  All the others are becoming Jungle Luxxe.


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## holdaer (Nov 4, 2017)

this new map shows the new Grand Luxxe Jungle Suites (circled in red) below the lazy river.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 4, 2017)

rpennisi said:


> The first unfinished MP building, that's the one perpendicular to MPs lobby building did become a Bliss building.  All the others are becoming Jungle Luxxe.



So on the map holdear posted - I assume the Bliss building is the building immediately to the left of the three buildings circled in red .   (??)


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## holdaer (Nov 5, 2017)

That is my understanding.  Family members booked Grand Mayan but was offered an upgrade to GL Jungle Suite if they would attend the sales presentation. They took them up on the offer.  The GL Jungle Suite balcony didn't have a dipping pool but was nice and had a swing on it.  It also appears that Vidanta didn't have enough sales to support the Bliss buildings, so 3 buildings were repurposed to become GL Jungle Suites.


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## MuranoJo (Nov 5, 2017)

holdaer said:


> this new map shows the new Grand Luxxe Jungle Suites (circled in red) below the lazy river.
> 
> View attachment 5055


Thanks, that's really clear to me now.

I'm surprised the buildings circled are/were unfinished MP units, as the aerial footprint looks larger than the typical MP building.


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## pittle (Nov 5, 2017)

MuranoJo said:


> Thanks, that's really clear to me now.
> 
> I'm surprised the buildings circled are/were unfinished MP units, as the aerial footprint looks larger than the typical MP building.



But, all of the buildings in the line from the pool to the highway are MP buildings.  There are 20 of them.  The 2 that are at a right angle in the middle are Buildings 9&10.  We stayed in 10 once.  They built the 3 that were circled in 2004-2005 and the other 8-10 on the far right top were nearly finished in November 2005.  We could see them when all the trees were stripped of leaves during the hurricane.  We were there 3 weeks after the hurricane.


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## rpennisi (Nov 5, 2017)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> So on the map holdear posted - I assume the Bliss building is the building immediately to the left of the three buildings circled in red .   (??)


Yes, it is perpendicular to Mayan Palace buildings 10 and 11.


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## rpennisi (Nov 5, 2017)

I took this photo of one of the models that were on the ground floor of one of the RM Grand Mayan buildings in January, 2008.  This was before the introduction of the newer Vidanta offerings of Bliss, Grand Bliss and Grand Luxxe.  This was supposed to be the RM Mayan Palace complex.  Current Mayan Palace buildings 1-21 run in the photo from lower right to the top middle.
Of course, all this changed with the new building levels that were introduced.

PS Note that the beach is at the top and the highway is at the bottom of the photo.  The never finished MP buildings and lazy river are on the left side of the photo.  Those are the new Jungle Luxxe buildings (three of them as of now, more to come?).


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 5, 2017)

rpennisi said:


> View attachment 5062 I took this photo of one of the models that were on the ground floor of one of the RM Grand Mayan buildings in January, 2008.  .



Some or all of those models are likely still there . I saw them in Feb 2016 - when (I was looking for something else) and ended up in the Mexican National sales area .
I thought they might be the ones that are no longer at the MP PV Marina BUT likely Grupo Mayan had more than one set made if you took the photo in 2008 .

added-  Ron , I really like your pictures of the models . 
I just realized that you took this in Riviera Maya . The models I saw in 2016 were / are in Nuevo Vallarta . ( ground floor of the Grand Mayan that has the M. National sales location )


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## rpennisi (Nov 5, 2017)

For historical reference, I took this photo the same day, in January 2008 of the Nuevo Vallarta complex model.  Note the Sea Garden at the far left and the "yellow and orange" Mayan Palace buildings on the bottom right, that were torn down soon after to build the first Grand Luxxe buildings (Punta and pools)

For newer folks to Vidanta, this shows how easy and short the walk was from the Grand Mayan to the Sea Garden (before the wall was built).  In fact, they used to run carts along the road from the Grand Mayan to the Sea Garden.


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## qb_bc (Nov 6, 2017)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> So on the map holdear posted - I assume the Bliss building is the building immediately to the left of the three buildings circled in red .   (??)



Going from memory from my visit in 2016.

The leftmost building of the three circled is the Bliss. We stayed in that building.

The two buildings left of the red circled are Mayan Palace. The one nearest is all rooms, while the second one to the left left of the red circled area has the lobby.

In 2016, when we were in the Bliss building there was a lot of construction. The half of the building (measured from the elevators) nearest the Mayan Palace was closed and they were working on the rooms. The other half of the building was Bliss accommodation.

I'm now wondering if they converted all of the three buildings to Jungle Grand Luxxe. If so, what are they doing for Bliss owners?

Every visit is a surprise


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## RJones (Nov 6, 2017)

rpennisi said:


> So to recap, the unfinished Mayan Palace buildings and the unfinished Mayan Palace lazy river is now Grand Luxxe only.


Ridiculous. and the its DEEP in the Mayan Palace jungle.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 6, 2017)

RJones said:


> Ridiculous. and the its DEEP in the Mayan Palace jungle.



I understand GL RM jungle may not be your cup of tea BUT it could be a great exchange for someone else .
Not everyone wants the beach / oceanfront . Some folks want a nice unit , pools / lazy rivers , good onsite restaurants & lots to do on resort etc .

Personally - we are fine at PV Marina Mayan Palace & NV Sea Garden due to the smaller scale resort footprint ,non AI status , and the ability to easily go off exploring by local bus . Vidanta offers this for us ; as well as many other varied ( non AI ) options to enjoy a vacation at their 7 resort locations .

IMO - GL RM Jungle is being added to accomadate additional exchangers . The land and " infrastructure " were already paid for , and Vidanta   wants to keep growing . The unfortunate fall 2017 hurricanes removed units from the 2018 snowbird mix  in the Caribbean and Florida and this gives any resort with available units an opportunity to fill them with exchangers .

IMO - this is parallel to the plans to build the 3rd Grand Bliss at PV - Marina on land that has been owned by (Vidafel / Grupo Mayan ) / Vidanta for 30 + years . There - the target market is existing (long time ) owners who think :
" Big Nuevo " is to hard to get around and prefer a smaller scale .

I think this shows a developer making smart business decisions / that also can benefit owners
due to the RTU float week format of Vidanta contracts .


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## TheHappyWanderer (Nov 7, 2017)

Is this new lazy river open now? Or if not, is there an estimated opening date?


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## RussellSun (Nov 7, 2017)

I think this shows a developer making smart business decisions / that also can benefit owners
due to the RTU float week format of Vidanta contracts .[/QUOTE]

How does this benefit owners due to the RTU float week character of Vidanta contracts?


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 7, 2017)

RussellSun said:


> I think this shows a developer making smart business decisions / that also can benefit owners
> due to the RTU float week format of Vidanta contracts .



How does this benefit owners due to the RTU float week character of Vidanta contracts?[/QUOTE]

Answer:

Vidanta contract are RTU float week(s) - so there is no ownership of a specific week , unit or resort location
Contracts written  since 2011 are for 10 years of a registered week , renewable in 10 year increments - as a residence week . ( for up to 9 renewals / 100 years )

IMO -Residence weeks are RTU solely based on availablity . Registered weeks have (some kind ) of "senior position" to Residence Weeks .
IMO - registered weeks are like flying with a reservation and residence weeks are like flying standby . Both get on the airplane as long as there are seats .

As long as Vidanta keeps building and growing - everyone gets a seat .: AND it is not an old & rundown unit or situation .

 IMO -Vidanta's reservation system is very sophisticated in how they manage occupancy levels  based on existing owner ARP , new owners ,  exchangers and cash flow needs .
 What allows them to keep "everyone"  happy  in the big picture - is the addition of new units to the resorts  AND their system of building for peak snowbird
season with build costs in pesos and MF income in  $ USD .


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## RussellSun (Nov 8, 2017)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> How does this benefit owners due to the RTU float week character of Vidanta contracts?



Answer:

Vidanta contract are RTU float week(s) - so there is no ownership of a specific week , unit or resort location
Contracts written  since 2011 are for 10 years of a registered week , renewable in 10 year increments - as a residence week . ( for up to 9 renewals / 100 years )

IMO -Residence weeks are RTU solely based on availablity . Registered weeks have (some kind ) of "senior position" to Residence Weeks .
IMO - registered weeks are like flying with a reservation and residence weeks are like flying standby . Both get on the airplane as long as there are seats .

As long as Vidanta keeps building and growing - everyone gets a seat .: AND it is not an old & rundown unit or situation .

 IMO -Vidanta's reservation system is very sophisticated in how they manage occupancy levels  based on existing owner ARP , new owners ,  exchangers and cash flow needs .
 What allows them to keep "everyone"  happy  in the big picture - is the addition of new units to the resorts  AND their system of building for peak snowbird
season with build costs in pesos and MF income in  $ USD .[/QUOTE]

I think their system is not that sophisticated because they misclassify people terribly. They misclassified us on our first visit and put us in the worst room possible. It still leaves bad taste in my mouth and has made me suspicious of their system, customer service and whether they treat owners with respect. We were treated like criminals almost. They made us go to a sales presentation to get an upgraded room. It was horrible. Then they tried to sell us a package that was well below our level of travel style. We actually wanted something better and more expensive. Imagine that! But the salesperson was trying to convince us to buy their cheapest program. Why? I have no idea. We finally upgraded from the Bliss Entertainment to Grand Mayan to Grand Luxxe on that first visit since we would never stay in the Bliss and Mayan Palace. Grand Mayan would be questionable so we rescinded on that package and asked for a Grand Luxxe package. I do not think Vidanta does a very good job of target marketing and their computer system has absolutely no idea of how to place people in the right rooms based on their ownership level and future sales potential and upgrade potential. I think Vidanta's model takes a very short term view of its owners. The sales people are trained to make a buck today and do not look at the big picture of matching members with the best product in the short term and upgrading them over the long term as their needs change. The sales people are rude and insulting too. They said some of the rudest things to us. I won't repeat them here. This did not just happen by one salesperson but by several in various capacities. It is still amazing to me that I bought anything. I doubt I will upgrade unless they improve their customer service and give us good rooms when we start visiting. We are new so we have not yet visited since joining. We shall see if they deserve their AAA 5 Diamond designation or not. Many resorts on the AAA list do not deserve to be on that list. I wonder if Vidanta bought its AAA designations. Many travel awards are promotional and companies can buy the awards with advertising dollars and donations. The Grand Mayan certainly does not deserve to be a AAA 4 Diamond resort. The furniture in the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta is worn out and the terrace pools are dirty.


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## pittle (Nov 8, 2017)

RussellSun - did you buy an actual unit or just the Trial Package?  I cannot tell from your post.  You have several thoughts running in the same paragraph.

Rooms are assigned on your equity value - $$$ that you have spent to get to the level you currently own.  There is a pretty complicated method that also includes how long you have owned with them.  There are 3 levels of ownership at the Grand Luxxe depending on these factors.  As someone who has owned numerous units at all levels of Mayan World since 1999, I think that it is a fair enough system for owners. Someone with multiple weeks will get the better room assignments than someone with one week.


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## RussellSun (Nov 8, 2017)

pittle said:


> RussellSun - did you buy an actual unit or just the Trial Package?  I cannot tell from your post.  You have several thoughts running in the same paragraph.
> 
> Rooms are assigned on your equity value - $$$ that you have spent to get to the level you currently own.  There is a pretty complicated method that also includes how long you have owned with them.  There are 3 levels of ownership at the Grand Luxxe depending on these factors.  As someone who has owned numerous units at all levels of Mayan World since 1999, I think that it is a fair enough system for owners. Someone with multiple weeks will get the better room assignments than someone with one week.



Yes, we own Grand Luxxe owners. We have not yet been back as a Grand Luxxe owner yet. We had a bad experience when we purchased our Grand Luxxe but purchased it anyway due to the Grand Luxe's reputation and the units are beautiful. We hope we will have a better experience on our upcoming trips. We have several trips scheduled in high season. We hope we will be treated better than on our initial trip, when we were not yet owners. The negative experience with the sales team is still fresh on our minds. We are afraid and cautious by the way Vidanta operates for many reasons.


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## rpennisi (Nov 8, 2017)

So, when you were not given the best of locations you were "only" GM owners?  What Phyllis (Pittle) explains above as to how room assignments are given, shows that Vidanta does have a system that Tom (TDot) also explains as well.

Being a Mayan Palace owner, when I get a Grand Luxxe in a trade, I know that I am going to not get the plum room assignment.  I don't blame Vidanta for that, because to me, it makes sense that I didn't put out the big bucks for a Grand Luxxe ownership.

Unless you bought the highest GL level they are offering, most likely you will not get the best room assignments in the future as well.

While I agree that the sales people can be nasty and rude, the staying at Vidanta resorts has nothing to do with the sales department and how they treated you.  Many before you have complained bitterly about the sales practices, but own and enjoy, nevertheless, their stays in Vidanta run resorts.

In your last sentence, you wrote you were "scared but the way Vidanta operates for many reasons".  Do you mean scared or scarred...afraid (scared) or damaged (scarred) by the sales experience?  Just curious.


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## RussellSun (Nov 8, 2017)

rpennisi said:


> So, when you were not given the best of locations you were "only" GM owners?  What Phyllis (Pittle) explains above as to how room assignments are given, shows that Vidanta does have a system that Tom (TDot) also explains as well.
> 
> Being a Mayan Palace owner, when I get a Grand Luxxe in a trade, I know that I am going to not get the plum room assignment.  I don't blame Vidanta for that, because to me, it makes sense that I didn't put out the big bucks for a Grand Luxxe ownership.
> 
> ...



Afraid and cautious - I changed the words in my post. One thing that scared me during our first stay was they had people in the lobby of the Grand Mayan hanging out who were pretty rude and the check-in desk at the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta was also disorganized and rude. It was a terrible experience to go to the reception desk. We were okay once they upgraded our room to the ocean view side and the furniture was in slightly better condition - but still run down and scratched. We liked the Nuevo Vallarta property overall. We had to go to the sales presentation to get the better room so we went. They sold us a Grand Mayan contract at first but we realized we did not like Grand Mayan as the days went on so we went back to rescind Grand Mayan and we asked about Grand Luxxe. It was just such as horrible sales process. I still don't know how we managed to upgrade at all. We spent 2.5 days of our 7 days in the sales office. I won't repeat the awful things the sales people said to us. Insult after insult about us. I am afraid to go back to an owner update meeting. I am wondering if they will be mean and insulting again if we do not upgrade or because we did not buy the most expensive Grand Luxxe package. We have the means to upgrade but we are afraid to upgrade. We also own 3 other upscale vacation clubs so we aren't sure how often we will use Grand Luxxe given there are only 2 locations right now. I know East Cape is coming at some point. We are going to Cabo for Christmas so we will get an idea if we like it there. We will never go to Acapulco if the put a Grand Luxxe there. I was there years ago and have no interest in returning. Unless they expand outside of Mexico, Grand Luxxe will have limited appeal as a brand. It will not become a Ritz Carlton or Four Seasons until they are worldwide. So my thought is why pour more money into a company that is geographically limited and treats members poorly during the sales process. All my other vacation clubs have treated me like royalty during and after the sales process. Why does Vidanta need to abuse people and insult them? Do they not realize this will affect their brand image long term? Even if we end up buying, it has still rubbed me the wrong way. I hold a grudge. My upcoming visits better be excellent to make up for my last visit. I do not mind if I made a bad "investment" in Grand Luxxe since it will expire in 10 years anyway. But I am really cautious about upgrading now unless they wow me and treat us really well going forward.

The reason I think Vidanta's computer system is poor is because we are excellent sales prospects but they misclassified us as poor sales prospects. The sold us the wrong product. They should have put us in a better room from the start and moved us to Grand Luxxe right from the beginning. The probably could have sold us a more expensive Grand Luxxe on Day 1. If they were more sophisticated in marketing, they would have done this. Instead, they treated us like crap, put a sour taste in my mouth and undersold us what I consider to be a cheap Grand Luxxe package that I do not really like. However, now I do not want to upgrade because I do not want to spend more money with them. They had their one shot and blew it.

I am scared they are going to use this sales tactic again. Put us in bad Grand Luxxe rooms and force us to go to an owner update meeting to get a better room. I think that is such bad customer service.

And this is the worst part for Vidanta and Grand Luxxe...I am a Grand Luxxe owner. I have no intention of changing that. I may end up upgrading. However, I will never forget the awful sales experience. I will forever tell this story and warn people to be careful. When I give out Ambassadors certificates or take friends and family with me, I will warn them. In fact, I do not want to give out Ambassador Certificates because I question if it is unethical since I know how abusive the sales process is. This is hurting the brand and it is hurting us as owners. It is devaluing our membership. And here I am, as an owner, writing about it. I should be a happy owner but I am still stinging from the sales experience and afraid to go on my next two vacations at the Grand Luxxe. I am afraid at what tricks they may use to get me into a sales presentation again and what they may say if I say no.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 8, 2017)

I will think about your post and try to add information that will help .


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## rpennisi (Nov 8, 2017)

RussellSun said:


> Afraid and cautious - I changed the words in my post. One thing that scared me during our first stay was they had people in the lobby of the Grand Mayan hanging out who were pretty rude and the check-in desk at the Grand Mayan Nuevo Vallarta was also disorganized and rude. It was a terrible experience to go to the reception desk. We were okay once they upgraded our room to the ocean view side and the furniture was in slightly better condition - but still run down and scratched. We liked the Nuevo Vallarta property overall. We had to go to the sales presentation to get the better room so we went. They sold us a Grand Mayan contract at first but we realized we did not like Grand Mayan as the days went on so we went back to rescind Grand Mayan and we asked about Grand Luxxe. It was just such as horrible sales process. I still don't know how we managed to upgrade at all. We spent 2.5 days of our 7 days in the sales office. I won't repeat the awful things the sales people said to us. Insult after insult about us. I am afraid to go back to an owner update meeting. I am wondering if they will be mean and insulting again if we do not upgrade or because we did not buy the most expensive Grand Luxxe package. We have the means to upgrade but we are afraid to upgrade. We also own 3 other upscale vacation clubs so we aren't sure how often we will use Grand Luxxe given there are only 2 locations right now. I know East Cape is coming at some point. We are going to Cabo for Christmas so we will get an idea if we like it there. We will never go to Acapulco if the put a Grand Luxxe there. I was there years ago and have no interest in returning. Unless they expand outside of Mexico, Grand Luxxe will have limited appeal as a brand. It will not become a Ritz Carlton or Four Seasons until they are worldwide. So my thought is why pour more money into a company that is geographically limited and treats members poorly during the sales process. All my other vacation clubs have treated me like royalty during and after the sales process. Why does Vidanta need to abuse people and insult them? Do they not realize this will affect their brand image long term? Even if we end up buying, it has still rubbed me the wrong way. I hold a grudge. My upcoming visits better be excellent to make up for my last visit. I do not mind if I made a bad "investment" in Grand Luxxe since it will expire in 10 years anyway. But I am really cautious about upgrading now unless they wow me and treat us really well going forward.
> 
> The reason I think Vidanta's computer system is poor is because we are excellent sales prospects but they misclassified us as poor sales prospects. The sold us the wrong product. They should have put us in a better room from the start and moved us to Grand Luxxe right from the beginning. The probably could have sold us a more expensive Grand Luxxe on Day 1. If they were more sophisticated in marketing, they would have done this. Instead, they treated us like crap, put a sour taste in my mouth and undersold us what I consider to be a cheap Grand Luxxe package that I do not really like. However, now I do not want to upgrade because I do not want to spend more money with them. They had their one shot and blew it.
> 
> ...


You don't have to go to any further updates, unless you want to go.  My advice would be, just say no, and take the room assignment that you are given.  In the future, you may want to try to bargain for better room assignments, but my guess is you will once again be insulted by the sales staff.  Unfortunately, it's what they do.  It has hurt their brand with some TUG folks, but their "methods" work for them, because folks keep buying and upgrading.


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## pittle (Nov 8, 2017)

The reason I think Vidanta's computer system is poor is because we are excellent sales prospects but they misclassified us as poor sales prospects. The sold us the wrong product. They should have put us in a better room from the start and moved us to Grand Luxxe right from the beginning. The probably could have sold us a more expensive Grand Luxxe on Day 1. If they were more sophisticated in marketing, they would have done this. Instead, they treated us like crap, put a sour taste in my mouth and undersold us what I consider to be a cheap Grand Luxxe package that I do not really like. However, now I do not want to upgrade because I do not want to spend more money with them. They had their one shot and blew it.

I do not think that they do credit checks for all exchanges.  They just lump all  "newbies" in the same group - "fresh meat".   Now that you are an owner, even if you exchange, they will know it.


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## tschwa2 (Nov 8, 2017)

I also think they almost never start non owners out with the Grand Luxxe hard sell, it is usually only to owners who have upgraded before or already at grand Mayan or higher.  Starting out with a $500,000+ price tag for Grand Luxxe and then coming down to the $80,000 or so price tag would just turn too many non owners off.  With current owners they can start with those prices but at least through in the "equity" of their current ownership to soften the blow.


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## richontug (Nov 8, 2017)

I book into Grand Luxxe through lowest level (SFX exchange).  I have been on 2nd floor and ground floor ( see photo to left) but I don't care as GL is so good  - also ground level is closer to coffee in morning!


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## Eric B (Nov 8, 2017)

RussellSun, I wouldn’t be too concerned about them putting you in a bad GL room; it looks like you bought a penthouse loft membership based on your other posts and they are all in the same building on the same floor.  We were told they all have ocean views as well.  Having that kind of membership and understanding the location of the different unit types gives you control over where you stay to a certain degree.  Things can be less certain if you downgrade to a different unit type, but as noted elsewhere, they should recognize your membership level and take that into account in where they put you.  We have to be realistic, though, and only expect something that exists (i.e., don’t expect a 2 BR loft at the top of NV bldg 3 or 4, they aren’t there).


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## Eric B (Nov 8, 2017)

Also, I don’t think there are any bad GL suites, but that’s a subjective call.  I’ve seen some issues posted about elevators to the 4 BR units, where a unit is only served by a single elevator, which could be quite bad (and was for the folks posting about it).


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## RussellSun (Nov 9, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> I also think they almost never start non owners out with the Grand Luxxe hard sell, it is usually only to owners who have upgraded before or already at grand Mayan or higher.  Starting out with a $500,000+ price tag for Grand Luxxe and then coming down to the $80,000 or so price tag would just turn too many non owners off.  With current owners they can start with those prices but at least through in the "equity" of their current ownership to soften the blow.



Yes I see your point for most people.


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## RussellSun (Nov 9, 2017)

Eric B said:


> RussellSun, I wouldn’t be too concerned about them putting you in a bad GL room; it looks like you bought a penthouse loft membership based on your other posts and they are all in the same building on the same floor.  We were told they all have ocean views as well.  Having that kind of membership and understanding the location of the different unit types gives you control over where you stay to a certain degree.  Things can be less certain if you downgrade to a different unit type, but as noted elsewhere, they should recognize your membership level and take that into account in where they put you.  We have to be realistic, though, and only expect something that exists (i.e., don’t expect a 2 BR loft at the top of NV bldg 3 or 4, they aren’t there).



No we bought a studio loft membership with an option to upgrade to the penthouse 1 bedroom loft. I do not like the studio lofts. We only bought it because we like the usage of the 1 bedroom suites from April 15 - Nov 15. I do not like studios. We are considering an upgrade but having trouble communicating with sales to answer basic questions about the upgrade and what is included.


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## RussellSun (Nov 9, 2017)

richontug said:


> I book into Grand Luxxe through lowest level (SFX exchange).  I have been on 2nd floor and ground floor ( see photo to left) but I don't care as GL is so good  - also ground level is closer to coffee in morning!



Yes that is a pretty jungle view. I agree. I guess I have a warped opinion because they put us in a parking lot/construction view room at Grand Mayan in our first stay with broken furniture and a green pool. I did anything to get out of that room, including going to the sales presentation and signing my life away. LOL!!!


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## RussellSun (Nov 9, 2017)

rpennisi said:


> You don't have to go to any further updates, unless you want to go.  My advice would be, just say no, and take the room assignment that you are given.  In the future, you may want to try to bargain for better room assignments, but my guess is you will once again be insulted by the sales staff.  Unfortunately, it's what they do.  It has hurt their brand with some TUG folks, but their "methods" work for them, because folks keep buying and upgrading.



It will not work in the long run, especially if outspoken people start writing to AAA who evaluates them and awards the 5 Diamonds. The AAA inspectors should attend their sales presentations. Supposedly AAA evaluates resorts undercover, from what I understand. If AAA or Consumer Reports was treated like we were and it got written up, the Grand Luxxe brand would be destroyed and our membership would lose all value. Vidanta has a very short term view of how to make money. Disney and Marriott also sell a lot yet they do not use high pressure. Disney is the #1 timeshare in the world with the most loyal members and consistently all their resorts are rated AAA 4 Diamond and deserve it. Their best resorts rent on Expedia for $1000 - $2500 per night, much more than Grand Luxxe right now. Grand Luxxe is being devalued on Redweek, TUG and VRBO for cheap rentals at discounted weekly rates (not much more than the member rate). Disney Vacation Club is not negotiable and they do not play games. If they can't sell you something because it is sold out, they direct you to buy it resale. Even if you buy resale, you still became a Disney Vacation Club member and are treated equally, with just a few restrictions if you can't buy the home resort direct because it is sold out. You can combine resale points with direct points and get full benefits that way. Disney seems to be the best timeshare company on the market for many reasons. Grand Luxxe needs to get its act together and become a world class brand and company.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 9, 2017)

pittle said:


> The reason I think Vidanta's computer system is poor is because we are excellent sales prospects but they misclassified us as poor sales prospects. The sold us the wrong product. They should have put us in a better room from the start and moved us to Grand Luxxe right from the beginning. The probably could have sold us a more expensive Grand Luxxe on Day 1. If they were more sophisticated in marketing, they would have done this. Instead, they treated us like crap, put a sour taste in my mouth and undersold us what I consider to be a cheap Grand Luxxe package that I do not really like. However, now I do not want to upgrade because I do not want to spend more money with them. They had their one shot and blew it.
> 
> I do not think that they do credit checks for all exchanges.  They just lump all  "newbies" in the same group - "fresh meat".  ...... .



Well said -

< Vidanta grows on a diet of  a "fresh newbie  (gringo) meat" and always has  /  and most of us were there once >


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## RussellSun (Nov 10, 2017)

LOL - I am always "fresh gringo meat" and fall for the wow factor every time!


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## pittle (Nov 10, 2017)

RussellSun said:


> LOL - I am always "fresh gringo meat" and fall for the wow factor every time!



Well - Grand Luxxe does have the WOW factor.

It is true that since it was a new concept back in 2008, Grand Luxxe and Grand Bliss were only offered to existing Grand Mayan owners because they would credit you with your "equity" towards an upgrade - like some others, I think it was because these units were so expensive.  They were very upfront about that with owners. MP to GM, GM to GB or GL, GB to GL was the progression for a very long time.  I am surprised to find out that they are offering GL to newbies.  Maybe so many MP & GM owners have upgraded that they can now open it up.

As I said many times on TUG for years - we had no intention of upgrading our 6 weeks of MP & GM ownership since we had the no pay unless you go on all but 1 contract and were perfectly happy with what we had. But with 5 contracts, we had to pay a "Renovation fee" for one of the contracts each year.  They all expired at different times and when they offered us two GL 2-bedroom units for a price that was close to what we were obligated for reno fees through our current contracts, we jumped on it.  (Many TUG folks were shocked when I posted that we had upgraded!) But, we no longer needed 6 weeks per year since we moved to AZ.  When we lived in the Mid-West, it was something that we did use in February and with family for Thanksgiving. We sometimes used the VF weeks too!

FYI - Since you like really nice places - check out Buganvilias Vacation Club in Puerto Vallarta. We own an Imperial Sky Suite there for Thanksgiving week each year.  That is another prime property and has maybe the best location in town.  We used our eBay Buganvilias purchases to upgrade there too.  Our fixed week for 15 years cost us more than our GL upgrade, but our grown children love the location and we have the top floor of the Tower building looking towards town. (It is the model whenever owners are not there.) It is as upscale as GL - we have 2 kitchens and 3 full bathrooms. Our MF for a 2-bedroom unit are less than 1/2 the price of a GL 2-bedroom unit. Our grown kids love going there and think it is funny when they push the button for 25 because invariably someone makes a comment - "You are staying up there?"  I think they like to say "yes - in the end unit!"  We go for family vacation in PV each year and can get bonus weeks for the price of the MF so that every couple/family has their own space. Our unit is home base for the 2 of us and another couple. We like it because it is not all-inclusive and is an easy walk or short taxi ride to pretty much everywhere in the area.  You should look at that sometime.  It is the timeshare part of the Sheraton - just on the south side of the Sheraton entrance.  It is not affiliated with Sheraton Hotels, but you can use the hotel pool and they share the beach and Palapas. 

You can see photos by clicking on my link by my signature.  Hubs did a nice video once.  There is an album for Sky Suites too.


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## Hankmoon (Nov 10, 2017)

pittle said:


> Well - Grand Luxxe does have the WOW factor.
> 
> It is true that since it was a new concept back in 2008, Grand Luxxe and Grand Bliss were only offered to existing Grand Mayan owners because they would credit you with your "equity" towards an upgrade - like some others, I think it was because these units were so expensive.  They were very upfront about that with owners. MP to GM, GM to GB or GL, GB to GL was the progression for a very long time.  I am surprised to find out that they are offering GL to newbies.  Maybe so many MP & GM owners have upgraded that they can now open it up.
> 
> ...



The Imperial Sky Suite sounds amazing. I will check it out. I assume it is much more expensive now than when you bought it. We have 4 timeshares now so not sure we are ready for another but who knows - they get addictive.

I was not aware the Grand Luxxe charges renovation fees. Do they do that every year? That has not been disclosed to us.


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## rpennisi (Nov 10, 2017)

I have to attest to what Phyllis is saying about the Buganvilias Sky Suites. We have an EOY studio in that building and trade it into RCI for a one bedroom suite in one of the adjacent buildings.  Two years ago, I wandered over to the 25 story building and walked around the Sky Suites and was very wowed!  I would stay there if I had the choice, rather than the NV Grand Luxxe because of its location in PV.  Will be at the Buganvilias in January, but we are not that impressed with their one bedroom "Flintstones" suites, but love the location.  I don't know if there is a way to trade into their Sky Suites, but I wish there was.


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## Eric B (Nov 10, 2017)

The typical GL contract written now is for 10 years right to use, renewable 9 times for the cost of one usage fee, thus lasting 100 years.  There are older ones that were for 25 years, renewable 3 times for the 100 years, with a higher renewal cost (I’ve heard 5 x the usage fee).  The renewal fees are typically referred to here as renovation fees.  Should be something in your contract about that.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 10, 2017)

Eric B said:


> The typical GL contract written now is for 10 years right to use, renewable 9 times for the cost of one usage fee, thus lasting 100 years.  There are older ones that were for 25 years, renewable 3 times for the 100 years, with a higher renewal cost (I’ve heard 5 x the usage fee).  The renewal fees are typically referred to here as renovation fees.  Should be something in your contract about that.



Thanks for posting this Eric ,

Here is a further clarification - The " renovation fee" in  pre -2011 contracts ( the 25 year ones ) is an extra MF payment due at year 5-10-15-20 . At year 25 - a 5 x current MF payment is required to renew for another 25 years .

 Vida Sales is "famous" for including the "phantom"5th ( 25 year  reno / extra MF )"cost " AND the 25 year renewal when trying to upgrade owners with older contracts to the 10 year ones by selling the concept of upgrading- to save  paying the reno fees . They also will show you  how much you "owe " based on a yearly MF increase of 5% for inflation . In the 11 years since we  bought (2006) the actual increase has been about $20 per year ( MF $ 500 to $ 715 for 2017 ) which is much lower than 5% .

Owners of older contracts also  can recall the famous upside down math writing in presentations / during the years when Casey Owens headed up the timeshare sales arm of Grupo Mayan .

IMO - the net dollar cost over years 1-24  is about the same between the older & newer contracts.

In Pittle/ Phyllis upgrade to GL - she and her husband used real math to estimate the actual dollars they would owe and paid that amount (not the Vida math calculation)


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## Hankmoon (Nov 10, 2017)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Thanks for posting this Eric ,
> Here is a further clarification - The " renovation fee" in  pre -2011 contracts ( the 25 year ones ) is an extra MF payment due at year 5-10 15-20 . At year 25 - a 5 x current MF payment is required to renew for another 25 years . Vida Sales is "famous" for including the "phantom "25 year  reno / extra MF "cost " when trying to upgrade owners with older contracts to the 10 year ones by selling the concept of upgrading- to save  paying the reno fees . They also will show you  how much you owe based on a yearly MF increase of 5% for inflation . In the 11 years since we  bought the actual increase has been about $20 per year ( MF $ 500 to $ 715 for 2016 ) which is much lower than 5% .
> 
> In Pittle/ Phyllis upgrade to GL - she and her husband used real math to estimate the actual dollars they would owe and paid that amount (not the Vida math calculation)



So does this mean if the “renovation” fee is not in your contract, they can’t add one out of the blue? We have a 10 year usage fee for renewal since we have the 10 year contract. There is no mention of renovation fees.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 10, 2017)

Vidanta Member Services honors what is written in YOUR contract . ( including any negotiated addendums )
They do not arbitrarily make changes .

Older (25 year renewal) contracts had stipulated reno fees  every 5 years . 10 year contracts are structured differently .


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## pittle (Nov 10, 2017)

Renovation fees were in the original MP & GM contracts.   You paid an extra MF per unit every 5 years on the anniversary of the contract - supposedly for renovation of the units. Because we had 6 weeks, that meant we had to pay at least one extra MF every year until the contracts were ready for Renewal, and at that time, it would be 5 MF to add 25 more years (and still had the 5 year reno fee).  At least we bought all but our first MP for pennies on the dollar and used some to leverage a great deal on 2 GM 2-bedroom weeks and eventually to Grand Luxxe.  Mayan World has provided us some great vacations since we found them in 1999.  Now there is a Renewal fee every 10 years, so it is somewhat better. 

Headed toward PV tomorrow!  We will spend the first week in Conchas Chinas -WIVC.  Not as fancy as Mayan World or Buganvilias, but sometimes we like to explore new places.  We owned at a place that awesome potential in Conchas Chinas, but gave it up and they were not keeping it up and it was not finished.  The units were spectacular in the beginning but they ran out of money and maintenance and furnishing suffered.  Thet are selling the units as full ownership condos as the timeshare folks are bailing.  They still keep a few units for the few remaining timeshare owners, but the MF went up significantly and we could rent a bonus week at Buganvilias for less than what they wanted and have amenities.  Win some and lose some!


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## Hankmoon (Nov 10, 2017)

pittle said:


> Renovation fees were in the original MP & GM contracts.   You paid an extra MF per unit every 5 years on the anniversary of the contract - supposedly for renovation of the units. Because we had 6 weeks, that meant we had to pay at least one extra MF every year until the contracts were ready for Renewal, and at that time, it would be 5 MF to add 25 more years (and still had the 5 year reno fee).  At least we bought all but our first MP for pennies on the dollar and used some to leverage a great deal on 2 GM 2-bedroom weeks and eventually to Grand Luxxe.  Mayan World has provided us some great vacations since we found them in 1999.  Now there is a Renewal fee every 10 years, so it is somewhat better.
> 
> Headed toward PV tomorrow!  We will spend the first week in Conchas Chinas -WIVC.  Not as fancy as Mayan World or Buganvilias, but sometimes we like to explore new places.  We owned at a place that awesome potential in Conchas Chinas, but gave it up and they were not keeping it up and it was not finished.  The units were spectacular in the beginning but they ran out of money and maintenance and furnishing suffered.  Thet are selling the units as full ownership condos as the timeshare folks are bailing.  They still keep a few units for the few remaining timeshare owners, but the MF went up significantly and we could rent a bonus week at Buganvilias for less than what they wanted and have amenities.  Win some and lose some!



How do you bail on a time share?


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## Eric B (Nov 11, 2017)

For a lot of the Mexican ones, including Vidanta, you would just not pay the renewal fee at the end of the initial contract (10 years for Vidanta).  Without renewal, the contract terminated by its own terms.  That’s because those ones are right to use (RTU) contracts rather than deeded ownerships with contracts for management, taxes, etc. with RTU, you don’t own the week, so don’t have an enduring obligation for expenses for it.


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## pittle (Nov 11, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> How do you bail on a time share?



In Mexico, most are Right to Use.  You only "own" as long as you pay.  We quit paying MF and the 2nd year, they emailed and asked if we still wanted to be part of the "family" and we said no.  We had heard that others did it at that resort, so took the option.  Some contracts say that if you do not pay MF for 2 years, the contract is cancelled.  This one had that.


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## RussellSun (Nov 11, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> I also think they almost never start non owners out with the Grand Luxxe hard sell, it is usually only to owners who have upgraded before or already at grand Mayan or higher.  Starting out with a $500,000+ price tag for Grand Luxxe and then coming down to the $80,000 or so price tag would just turn too many non owners off.  With current owners they can start with those prices but at least through in the "equity" of their current ownership to soften the blow.



Now Vidanta is depositing 3 bedroom Grand Luxxe suites into Interval International as exchanges to get sales prospects to Grand Luxxe. So yes, they are selling Grand Luxxe to first timers now. They are doing massive deposits through 2019 in Interval International from what I read on other TUG posts. I have even read that some folks have exchanged into the 3 bedroom Lofts. This is pretty demoralizing to those of us who are Grand Luxxe members. I think Grand Luxxe should allow exchanges for sales purposes but limit it to 1 bedroom inventory. They are allowing Marriott timeshare owners to trade into 3 bedrooms. Ridiculous!


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## tschwa2 (Nov 12, 2017)

They have been depositing 3 and even 4 bedroom Grand Luxxe for the last 2-3 years.  Even though they get II exchangers into those units, they aren't pitching Grand Luxxe to most of those exchangers if they don't already own a Vida property. They still start with Grand Mayan and even if you say going in you want Grand Luxxe , to get a price you probably have to do what you did and go back the next day after either buying or not buying but spending a full day hearing the pitch for the lower properties. 

 II doesn't even have a 1 in x rule so there are some Tuggers who have stayed 4-5 times in those large units using exchanges that probably cost them less than $1000 including the exchange fee but not the resort fee for each exchange.  

You keep talking about how demoralizing the process is and how they messed up with you but you bought and you gave them 10's of thousands of dollars and they left you wanting to upgrade even though you hated the process.   You are proof that they are doing it perfectly.


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## RussellSun (Nov 12, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> They have been depositing 3 and even 4 bedroom Grand Luxxe for the last 2-3 years.  Even though they get II exchangers into those units, they aren't pitching Grand Luxxe to most of those exchangers if they don't already own a Vida property. They still start with Grand Mayan and even if you say going in you want Grand Luxxe , to get a price you probably have to do what you did and go back the next day after either buying or not buying but spending a full day hearing the pitch for the lower properties.
> 
> II doesn't even have a 1 in x rule so there are some Tuggers who have stayed 4-5 times in those large units using exchanges that probably cost them less than $1000 including the exchange fee but not the resort fee for each exchange.
> 
> You keep talking about how demoralizing the process is and how they messed up with you but you bought and you gave them 10's of thousands of dollars and they left you wanting to upgrade even though you hated the process.   You are proof that they are doing it perfectly.



Yes, I guess their messed up sales process of insulting and abusing people works perfectly. I bought and still want to upgrade. I guess that is why they can get away with it. We bought because the product is beautiful even if the sales reps are nasty. The sales process is horribly demoralizing. I do not think anyone would disagree. I was lucky that I finally found a very nice sales rep who keeps me in. Everyone else is mean and nasty but she treats me with respect. If it weren’t for her, I would not still be considering the upgrade. One good apple in the bunch.

They pitched 3 products to me in the initial sales presentation including the Entertainment Package, The Grand Entertainment Package and the Grand Luxxe Studio Loft. I did not like the GL Studio Loft so they went back to selling me on the Grand Mayan. Then I decided I did not like Grand Mayan and went back to cancel that and I re-inquired about Grand Luxxe and learned we could use the 1 bedrooms with the studio loft contract, which they did not tell me in the initial sales presentation. This changed everything because I love the one bedrooms. At the same time, I also inquired about other units and we are considering an upgrade to a two-level 1 bedroom Residence Loft. It was all negotiated and agreed upon in our first week we were there, when we finally worked with the “nice” sales team who works with Grand Luxxe customers. We have a year to decide. 

We actually like everything about Grand Luxxe and Vidanta except one thing...the salesforce experience still leaves a bad taste in our mouths. We need to see when we go back a few times in the next few months if Grand Luxxe can overcome that with excellent customer service. If they live up to their AAA 5 Diamond reputation, then we will upgrade. If not, we won’t.

So if you ask about Grand Luxxe up front, they will sell it to your upfront but the general salesforce does seem to prefer to sell cheaper products for some strange reason. I guess that is what they are trained to do. Our first sales rep did not let me interrupt him because he had a spiel and it was memorized. If I interrupted, he had to start all over. LOL The first sales rep was actually a nice guy. His boss was the a-hole.

I did not need to go back to get the Grand Luxxe. They would have sold it to me on day 1. My nice final sales rep said the general sales force is not knowledgeable about Grand Luxxe and if they would have known we were the target market for the Grand Luxxe, we would have been placed with a different sales force.


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## Eric B (Nov 12, 2017)

RussellSun said:


> Now Vidanta is depositing 3 bedroom Grand Luxxe suites into Interval International as exchanges to get sales prospects to Grand Luxxe. So yes, they are selling Grand Luxxe to first timers now. They are doing massive deposits through 2019 in Interval International from what I read on other TUG posts. I have even read that some folks have exchanged into the 3 bedroom Lofts. This is pretty demoralizing to those of us who are Grand Luxxe members. I think Grand Luxxe should allow exchanges for sales purposes but limit it to 1 bedroom inventory. They are allowing Marriott timeshare owners to trade into 3 bedrooms. Ridiculous!



RussellSun, the high season for the Grand Luxxe locations runs from January through early April.  I don't believe you will find those deposited in II, although I am not a member of II, so don't know for sure.  Like you, we bought directly into GL at the studio loft level in the last year because we loved it.  There are some elements of the sales process, however, that can be grating.  When I heard of the availability through II, I, too, was a bit disappointed, but not demoralized.  You can also get to GL in the low season through SFX with a fair degree of availability and for a lower overall cost than going through Vidanta directly; you wind up paying an exchange fee to SFX plus a luxury upgrade fee plus the sunk cost of whatever you pay in MFs to your other timeshare.  For me, the result was $449 to SFX plus ~$400 in MF for a week in a 2 BR GL suite, for a total of less than $1,000.  I've also gotten down there through RCI when they deposited a bunch of weeks in the RCI Platinum Priority Access for the fall; then it was essentially just the $239 RCI exchange fee.  With SFX there don't seem to be any return restrictions; with RCI the Vidanta properties list a limitation of once per year in high season and twice per year overall.  Based on other posts, I understand that they (Vidanta) actually enforce these limitations.  I don't know if there are limitations on II exchanges into GL or any other Vidanta property.  I accept that what I bought was the right to go to GL during the high season at a fair price (we own 3 weeks at GL for the next 10 years plus additional availability through privilege weeks via SFX and ICE). I'm happy to take advantage of their having availability for sales prospects through exchanges at lower prices to go there in the low season when I can, too.  Oddly enough, we met some folks down there that do the same thing, but were too embarrassed to admit having gotten there on the cheap by exchanging a different TS when they own there anyway until we were discussing things.

I believe the commercial reality is that the GL inventory in the shoulder and low seasons must include a fair number of suites and lofts that are bigger than the 1 bedroom ones.  If they didn't make them available for exchanges to sales prospects or other vacationers, there would be a great opportunity cost for the times that those are empty and not in need of painting and refurbishment.  As a result, I don't believe we will ever see a complete lack of availability through the exchanges.  My suggestion is to embrace the availability and reduce your cost of going down there when you can.  I don't plan on paying the usage fees to go there in the off seasons when I can do so for less, even accepting that we may not get the best views.  (By the way, I also enjoy going to the Mayan Palace in Marina Vallarta because it's easier to get out in the community and see Puerto Vallarta and the local area; the accommodations aren't as nice as GL, but sometimes you may want a different experience.)  I think we are all better off if the company is able to fill rooms in the off season and generate income, allowing a slower rise in usage fees than we would otherwise see.  When I was there this last September, there were also a fair number of Mexican nationals in the resort; demonstrating the other approach they are using to run the business efficiently by segmenting the market calendar and filling the place up in the hotter months with folks that aren't just trying to escape the cold.

Also like you, we've pre-negotiated the cost of upgrading to a GL 1 BR penthouse loft for the next year.  This seems to be an approach their upgrade sales team uses.  I plan on doing that sometime next year so that I can spend February of the next year in one of those.  It won't take me all that long to accomplish that though; I would hate to spend 2 1/2 days negotiating.  Based on some of your other posts, I believe we will be in RM at the same time in January; we exchanged into GM rather than GL for that trip, though.  The biggest value I see that TUG provides is a forum to exchange information on how best to use timeshare ownership efficiently and effectively - happy to get together down there to compare notes on Vidanta if you like.  I've learned a lot by reading the postings here, including some tidbits you've included.  I've been trying to point out things I've learned both from TUG and from my interactions with Vidanta, SFX and ICE (Vida Lifestyle), but have probably left some stuff out that others could benefit from.


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## RussellSun (Nov 12, 2017)

Eric B said:


> Also like you, we've pre-negotiated the cost of upgrading to a GL 1 BR penthouse loft for the next year.  This seems to be an approach their upgrade sales team uses.  I plan on doing that sometime next year so that I can spend February of the next year in one of those.



We are staying in the GL 1 bedroom penthouse loft before we purchase. If you are considering a purchase and you have it pre-negotiated, they will allow you to stay in it in advance to try it out. You just ask them to book it for you and you pay the usage fee, of course. Be sure to ask your sales rep before you buy. This is the benefit of being on TUG. We learn a lot from each other.


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## Eric B (Nov 12, 2017)

That sort of matches our experience in September when we exchanged into GL NV.  The fellow that had sold us the GL studio loft had noted in our file that they should try to sell us a 2 BR spa unit at the next upgrade sale opportunity.  It confused them a bit that we were there on an exchange instead of a direct reservation, but they upgraded us to the 2 BR spa unit - no extra charge.  Found out from the sales presentation about the note in our file and it kind of adds up.  Think I'll just make a studio loft reservation when I'm planning on going down and actually upgrading; sales rep will probably arrange to upgrade us if it's a low season visit....


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## rpennisi (Nov 12, 2017)

Eric B wrote..."RussellSun, the high season for the Grand Luxxe locations runs from January through early April. I don't believe you will find those deposited in II, although I am not a member of II, so don't know for sure..."

II most definitely has GL offerings in the high season.  I have traded for a GL one bedroom suite for January, 2019.  I am sure others have done so as well.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 12, 2017)

rpennisi said:


> Eric B wrote..."RussellSun, the high season for the Grand Luxxe locations runs from January through early April. I don't believe you will find those deposited in II, although I am not a member of II, so don't know for sure..."
> 
> II most definitely has GL offerings in the high season.  I have traded for a GL one bedroom suite for January, 2019.  I am sure others have done so as well.



Vidanta also developer deposits their other brands into RCI .
If you are able to book 22 months out it can work well . RCI had Feb 2019 last April .
< Thanks Ron for the heads up when the deposit occurred as I booked MP PV - Marina for Presidents week 2019 >

IMO - these deposits are partly to keep a steady supply of " fresh meat " for sales / and may have something to do with developer - exchange company relationships (and possibly cash flow).

That said - Vidanta and their reservations dept management seem quite good at making sure units are still available for various owner ARP periods . ( 1 yr & 6 months )
IMO - for them it is similar to the way airlines (or hotels) run reservations - re : seat availability and cost per seat at various time lines .
That is why I posted earlier  that they had a " sophisticated reservations system " I think someones job is to monitor daily - the occupancy booked levels & when the reach a certain number xx months out from II ,RCI . SFX etc they have a cut off . Then if owners don't take xx % at xx ARP point  / xx units go back into exchange companies etc.
They also know that (currently ) for instance Acapulco & Mazatlan fill slower for snowbird season and so an owner booking"last minute " can still get a unit BUT perhaps not their first location choice.

Obviously they have to monitor each brand & within Grand Luxxe  each level of ownership as well .


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## youppi (Nov 12, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> They have been depositing 3 and even 4 bedroom Grand Luxxe for the last 2-3 years.  Even though they get II exchangers into those units, they aren't pitching Grand Luxxe to most of those exchangers if they don't already own a Vida property. They still start with Grand Mayan and even if you say going in you want Grand Luxxe , to get a price you probably have to do what you did and go back the next day after either buying or not buying but spending a full day hearing the pitch for the lower properties.
> 
> II doesn't even have a 1 in x rule so there are some Tuggers who have stayed 4-5 times in those large units using exchanges that probably cost them less than $1000 including the exchange fee but not the resort fee for each exchange.
> 
> You keep talking about how demoralizing the process is and how they messed up with you but you bought and you gave them 10's of thousands of dollars and they left you wanting to upgrade even though you hated the process.   You are proof that they are doing it perfectly.



May be it depends of what you currently own. I went to GL NV for the first time last year (I don't own a Vida property) and they offered me only 2 bdrm at GL (2 weeks + 2 weeks with SFX for around $80,000 for their first offer after discounted what I own and a discount of the day (total discount $120,000)).  I refused it and they came back with many different lower offers (only for GL) like a discount of 30% because I'm Canadian (diff between CAD and USD at that time), less weeks, etc. They never put pressure. I refused all their offers and at the end they asked me if they gave it to me (free), would I take it and I said no. 

I don't own a cheap trader (it costed me ~$775 per weeks for a 2 bdrm at GL including II exchange fee and the old $75 resort fee per week) but owners pay ~$2000 per week. Even with their new $11 per person per day, it's still much cheaper to exchange there for me than owning there.

It took 3 hrs (short time from what I read) including the breakfast, the transportation between different places, a lot of talking about Europe/Canada and the visit of different units.
Our sales person was from Belgium and spoke French (it's a trick we use often to avoid presentation. My wife told them that I speak only French (no truth but they don't know it). So, if they don't have a person that speak French then we don't have to go to a presentation).


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## pianoetudes (Nov 12, 2017)

Hankmoon said:


> o does this mean if the “renovation” fee is not in your contract, they can’t add one out of the blue? We have a 10 year usage fee for renewal since we have the 10 year contract. There is no mention of renovation fees.



There is no renovation fee in my contract.

It is the fee to re-new the contract every 10 years. See below

3.- TERM. This Certificate shall remain in effect for an initial term of ten years, beginning with the first calendar year after the date of this Certificate. Certificate Holder may extend this Certificate for additional ten-year periods by paying to the Hotel (through the Contact Center), within three months after the end of the preceding ten-year period, an extension fee equal to one then current Reservation Fee multiplied by the number of weeks indicated on the Cover Page. Certificate Holder may extend in this manner a maximum of nine times. If, at the end of any such ten-year anniversary of this Certificate, Certificate Holder does not extend this Certificate within the three month time window, all rights and obligations under this Certificate shall terminate. Operator does not invoice extension fees; it is the responsibility of the Certificate Holder to contact Operator to determine the amount of the fee and to make payment in accordance with the instructions in the Internal Policy.


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## RussellSun (Nov 13, 2017)

youppi said:


> May be it depends of what you currently own. I went to GL NV for the first time last year (I don't own a Vida property) and they offered me only 2 bdrm at GL (2 weeks + 2 weeks with SFX for around $80,000 for their first offer after discounted what I own and a discount of the day (total discount $120,000)).  I refused it and they came back with many different lower offers (only for GL) like a discount of 30% because I'm Canadian (diff between CAD and USD at that time), less weeks, etc. They never put pressure. I refused all their offers and at the end they asked me if they gave it to me (free), would I take it and I said no.



What did they offer you at a lower level after you said no to the 2 bedroom for $80,000? You said they made various lower level offers at different prices.


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## youppi (Nov 14, 2017)

RussellSun said:


> What did they offer you at a lower level after you said no to the 2 bedroom for $80,000? You said they made various lower level offers at different prices.


She came back with a resale package (somebody was just upgraded is package supposely). It was a multiple weeks too but I don't remember the cost of this one. It was cheaper.
She came back again with 1+1 week in a 2 bdrm for 30K CAD (30K USD - 30%).
She left and a guy came and he asked us if he gave it to us if we would take it.  
I told him that it costed me $700+$75 per week to came here in a 2 bdrm. So why I would take it and pay $2000 per week ? To have a better view ? I don't care. I don't pass my day in my room.
He agreed and gave us our gift and we left.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 14, 2017)

youppi said:


> She came back with...
> ......
> She came back again with 1+1 week in a 2 bdrm for 30K CAD (30K USD - 30%).
> 
> ...



So the sales (mgr- likely) was testing to see if you were a serious buyer or just a tire kicker .
I do not think " free" would have been in a written contract .

Youppi- I do think from your post and some others recently on TUG that 30 K is the approximate
(net- net )entry price point for Grand Luxxe . IMO - What you get and how you get there - would take an actual written contract , likely a rescind , and negotiations with Vidanta Member Services to come to a final agreement with all the addendums and perks that are personally important .

IMO - there will be a time frame ( or two ) in the next 18 or so months when a good negotiator could get " more / better " addendums . The time frame is based on Vidanta's need for cash to keep building the Cirque Theme park . It could be May 2018 as snowbird sales slow but cash needs for building continue . I do not think the $$ price will go down . It is what you can negotiate as an extra addendum with Member Services that determines the value of buying .

For example - free golf  . This was given in pre - build contracts 7 +"years ago . In the last few years
the directive has been discounted golf . If a serious buyer was to get to that "sign the final paperwork moment " with Member Services , and said - throw in xx free rounds for 2 - per registered week paid for and used - and I sign . IMO it could happen . IMO - the xx rounds is less than 7 , and they might stipulate no use on xx day of the week ( whatever is the most busy ) etc.

Thoughts ?


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## Eric B (Nov 14, 2017)

Price point sounds about right proportionally; I got more weeks for a higher price, but about the same rate.  They threw in unlimited free golf (pay for cart rental, though), 1/2 price spa treatments and tennis court usage.  Pretty sure that’s limited to weeks booked directly, i.e., not privilege weeks through SFX.  In a separate conversation w/ the reservation folks, though, they told me to just give them a call if SFX was ever unable to get the week I want, so it’s probably possible to work around that.

They were also selling add on packages for Cirque park access.  Details are in the picture I took of the offer sheet.  They were bargaining lower prices for not using privilege weeks this year, but I’m not sure how they would accomplish that limitation - my use year doesn’t start until next year anyway.


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## RussellSun (Nov 14, 2017)

I agree with T-Dot Traveller. I suspect the entry level price for Grand Luxxe is in the $30K range and varies depending on what unit type they give you, how many weeks go on your contract and what benefits are included and the terms of the contract. I was surprised they went down to less than US$30K for 1+1 in a 2 bedroom though. That seems very cheap to own a GL 2 bedroom unit even for a 1+1. I wonder what the terms of the contract would have been.

BTW, those “resale” packages are a gimmick. They did that to us too. It is just a sales tactic to make people think they are getting a deal.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 14, 2017)

Hi Eric - the pay for golf cart etc makes sense . Vidanta has a golf management company ( Kemper? )
that has expertise in running golf courses . I assume the carts are part of their operation and therefore
the payment goes to them .

That is similar to the "go to a presentation " goodies . IMO the 10 % off is coming from the " hotel "
side and does not change . Free cabs back to the airport , massages etc  come from the TS sales promo
budget and can be negotiated .

Hi RussellSun - perhaps the " better deal" came with mandatory MF for xx years before pay on use starts . That way Vidanta would get the same dollars . Who knows ? and was it in writing ?
My 2006 Mayan Palace contract had mandatory MF for the first 5 years , then became MF on use only. 
( " no go / no pay " )
 This & the Vacation  Fare week , was in writing and it can transfer to family but not resale .


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## RussellSun (Nov 14, 2017)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Hi Eric - the pay for golf cart etc makes sense . Vidanta has a golf management company ( Kemper? )
> that has expertise in running golf courses . I assume the carts are part of their operation and therefore
> the payment goes to them .
> 
> ...



I would tend to agree from what I have seen so far. I would guess the 1+1 for a 2 bedroom for under $30K would probably have had more mandatory MFs, very few freebies and seasonal restrictions. Even  the $30K-$40K GL contracts have 5 mandatory MFs in them and seasonal restrictions. The more expensive GL contracts have no mandatory MFs and a lot of extra perks and start getting silver, gold and platinum status for better rooms and service and no seasonal restrictions.

I can totally see why many Tuggers would not pay for a Grand Luxxe membership. I did not think we would buy a membership either. However, I quickly learned I do not have the personality for exchanging on a regular basis. I like the idea every now and then but not on a regular basis. I mainly like the exchanges for the low price getaways. I like the “idea” of the SFX Vida Weeks where you can request a search but do not have to give up one of our Grand Luxxe weeks.

I plan well in advance. Even having 11-12 months to making a booking seems too short to me. I wish I could book 18 months in advance. I also like to know exactly what view and room type I will get. This is priceless to me. So for these reasons, it is worth paying for a membership to me. I figure over the long run, the cost per year for a Grand Luxxe membership is not that much if we keep it for 30-40 years, let alone 100 years and put it in the trust and will (with prepaid renewal fees) for the kids and grandkids.

Grand Luxxe is a relatively new brand. I think the first Grand Luxxe opened in the late 2000s. It was only awarded the AAA 5 Diamond in 2012 in NV and this year in RM. Once it becomes established like the Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons, it will be over $100K for an entry level membership. Those of us who are in early will look back with a sigh of relief. Yes, we could save a ton of money now with the exchanges. Yes, right now we are throwing away our money. But if Grand Luxxe achieves its long term goal, it will no longer have to “dump” Grand Luxxe in II. I think long term, it will use Mayan Palace and some of the Grand Mayans to get people to the Vidanta properties for sales purposes. If Vidanta is smart at brand management, it will protect the Grand Luxxe brand.


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## rpennisi (Nov 14, 2017)

Russell, hate to say this but it sure seems you have bought the schtick hook line and sinker in a very short period of time.  30-40 years, seriously, and then in a trust, and looking back in the future and being happy you got in early?
I love Mexico for vacations, but you better hope that Mexico stays stable and Vidanta and Sr. Chavez have your best interests in mind in becoming the next Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons.
We're not talking here about being in at the beginning of Microsoft or Google.  But, if you have the disposable dollars, go for it.
IMO, one thing for certain is that Vidanta will always come up with something new and more expensive to make the newbies think they are on top of the heap.  There is a history to this.


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## pittle (Nov 14, 2017)

I am somewhat surprised at the $30,000 number for a Grand Luxxe 2-bedroom because in 2006, $31,000 was the absolute bottom line for a Grand Mayan (I had a very reliable source at that time.)   Things change as they need cash, however.  We felt that we made a good deal when we upgraded to consolidate our contracts to just 2 weeks in a 2-bedroom, because we did not have a lot invested and were obligated for the 5 year renovation fees, so we are $ ahead.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 14, 2017)

pittle said:


> I am somewhat surprised at the $30,000 number for a Grand Luxxe 2-bedroom because in 2006, $31,000 was the absolute bottom line for a Grand Mayan (I had a very reliable source at that time.)   Things change as they need cash, however.  We felt that we made a good deal when we upgraded to consolidate our contracts to just 2 weeks in a 2-bedroom, because we did not have a lot invested and were obligated for the 5 year renovation fees, so we are $ ahead.



Hi Phyllis
Since I am the one that pulled the 30 K out of my TUG hat - I have to say that number is purely based on reading TUG and some posts in the last few months .
 I am not sure what level "into the GL door" that gets you ( & it may not be a 2 bedroom ) . As you know Vidanta does occasionally "reset" the starting MF for new contracts . Owners of older contracts with the MF yearly increase cap may benefit over time and pay less for the same unit .

There was an extensive Grand Mayan post / thread last year and I believe that number was now  about 16 K . I will find it & fill in details . Remember also that Vidanta charges a
"closing fee " and their is some Mexican sales tax added as well . I am sure  those are on top of quoted best price .

I do feel that Vidanta has increased their focus on use revenue through owners via the " hotel side " use . You are the perfect example  , (and even if coming via an exchange) your regular use is the loyalty all brands look to create .

<I can remember a TUG  post from more than 10 years ago - when someone posted they went to presentations for 2 reasons - to get information on what was going to be built & because they had breakfast everyday anyway . No Vidanta Traveller , no emails about the resorts , and a brochure of nice pictures (with little information) every couple of years .Those were the days of Casey Owens and the "Sell a Mayan Palace Chevrolet" to anyone who was not comatose. Post sales "owner information " was hard to find . Then I found TUG and read every Mayan Palace archive post so I could better understand what we bought & owned .


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## pittle (Nov 14, 2017)

In 1999, a 2-bed MP unit was $15,800.  That is the only one that  We learned about resales. Back in 2000, hubby worked at MP NV for a very short time (he could not lie), so we had some "inside" info for a while.  We no longer have inside info, but I was totally surprised at the $30,000 amount because they were pushing for close to $50,000 for a 3-bedroom in 2014.


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## RussellSun (Nov 14, 2017)

I think the bottom line is unless that person signed a contract, they do not know what they are talking about. They do not know what would have been in it. People on TUG who are exchangers and have not bought are just bragging about how much money they are saving and how stupid people are to own. They do it on the Mexican forum and on the Hawaii forum, too. If people do not care about luxury and views and do not care when they go or what room they end up in, then of course they will save money by being flexible and exchanging. I had a choice of paying $899 for a Jungle Suite in Riviera Maya for January with a Saturday arrival through ICE Rewards or $1550 as a Grand Luxxe member and a Friday arrival. Guess what? I choose to pay more because I wanted to check in on Friday. The convenience was worth it for me. I am now glad I did it because I added a second week and Grand Luxxe made it easy for me. I doubt they would have done that for me had I booked the first week as a trader especially in high season. That is just an example of why it is worth it to me to shell out a huge upfront fee for my timeshares rather than buying a cheap trader.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Nov 14, 2017)

RussellSun said:


> ......  I had a choice of paying $899 for a Jungle Suite in Riviera Maya for January with a Saturday arrival through ICE Rewards or $1550 as a Grand Luxxe member and a Friday arrival. Guess what? I choose to pay more because I wanted to check in on Friday. The convenience was worth it for me. I am now glad I did it because I added a second week and Grand Luxxe made it easy for me. I doubt they would have done that for me had I booked the first week as a trader especially in high season. That is just an example of why it is worth it to me to shell out a huge upfront fee for my timeshares rather than buying a cheap trader.



Hi RussellSun ,
I think this was a good choice because it improved your personal vacation enjoyment .

Over the 14 days this worked out to less than $50 a day .  I realize from reading your posts that quality of the resort & experience are likely primary to your evaluation .
I am simply breaking it down this way because- even for me that is a daily cost that is affordable . My wife and I may have chosen the $899 option in the end BUT
 having options is what makes sense to me .

The good news - is that your hearing primarily from Vidanta owners who like the resort quality and service  .


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## RussellSun (Nov 14, 2017)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Hi RussellSun ,
> I think this was a good choice because it improved your personal vacation enjoyment .
> 
> Over the 14 days this worked out to less than $50 a day .  I realize from reading your posts that quality of the resort & experience are primary to your evaluation .
> ...


 
The way I look at it, we will be staying in a AAA 5 Diamond resort for 14 days for $221 per night. The Jungle suite is huge, more like a 2 bedroom because the living room converts to a second bedroom with two sleeper sofas and it has two full bathrooms and a full kitchen and dining room. I do not know the square footage but I think it is at least 1700+ sf. The typical Marriott and Disney 2 bedrooms are 1100-1200 sf and not as fancy. The Jungle Suite is classified as a 1 bedroom but it is bigger than most 2 bedroom timeshares. Yes for me quality, flexibility, and views are important. I care about price but as long as the there is a cost-quality relationship, I will pay extra for what is important to me. BTW, I still have the certificate and we can stay in a Grand Luxxe 1 bedroom for $299 for the week but I will probably give it to my sister and her family. If they can’t travel before it expires, then we will find a way to use it if it fits our schedule. I do like a good deal!


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## richontug (Nov 14, 2017)

But when is the Lazy River coming to Grand Luxxe RM?

Seriously - lots of good information - we have chosen not to pay for upgrade to GL from Mayan Palace but will continue to use SFX and rentals.


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## Eric B (Nov 15, 2017)

RussellSun said:


> I can totally see why many Tuggers would not pay for a Grand Luxxe membership. I did not think we would buy a membership either. However, I quickly learned I do not have the personality for exchanging on a regular basis. I like the idea every now and then but not on a regular basis. I mainly like the exchanges for the low price getaways. I like the “idea” of the SFX Vida Weeks where you can request a search but do not have to give up one of our Grand Luxxe weeks.
> 
> I plan well in advance. Even having 11-12 months to making a booking seems too short to me. *I wish I could book 18 months in advance. I also like to know exactly what view and room type I will get. This is priceless to me. *So for these reasons, it is worth paying for a membership to me. I figure over the long run, the cost per year for a Grand Luxxe membership is not that much if we keep it for 30-40 years, let alone 100 years and put it in the trust and will (with prepaid renewal fees) for the kids and grandkids.



I believe the privilege weeks allow you to book further out than 18 months with SFX; with the diamond level membership there it is listed as unlimited, but of course would have to take into account availability.  That might quash it a bit down to being 12 months in reality.

As far as knowing exactly what view and room type you get go, information is power.  Certain of the GL room types only exist in certain locations.  For example the penthouse 1 BR lofts are only in the top floor of building 5 in NV and the 2 and 3 BR lofts at NV are only in towers 3 and 4, I believe, on the 3rd/4th floor.  I had thought the lower floors of those buildings were 2 & 3 BR spa units like the ones above the loft floors, but apparently they are villa units per the OP.  By choosing the room type judiciously, you can limit the degrees of freedom the hotel side has as to where you are located.  Anyone have a comprehensive listing of where the different room types are located?  My belief, based on very limited personal experience and readings here is that for NV it is:

Punta = presidential units
Tower 1 = villa units, probably some plain 2 BR suites that can be locked off
Tower 2 = villa units, probably some plain 2 BR suites that can be locked off
Tower 3 = 2/3 BR lofts at 3rd floor, spas above, villas below
Tower 4 = 2/3 BR lofts at 3rd floor, spas above, villas below
Residence Tower = 4 BR; 4 per floor with individual elevators for each one
Tower 5 = studio lofts floors 1-6 or 7; penthouse 1 BR lofts at the top level.​


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## mikenk (Nov 15, 2017)

Eric B said:


> I believe the privilege weeks allow you to book further out than 18 months with SFX; with the diamond level membership there it is listed as unlimited, but of course would have to take into account availability.  That might quash it a bit down to being 12 months in reality.
> 
> As far as knowing exactly what view and room type you get go, information is power.  Certain of the GL room types only exist in certain locations.  For example the penthouse 1 BR lofts are only in the top floor of building 5 in NV and the 2 and 3 BR lofts at NV are only in towers 3 and 4, I believe, on the 3rd/4th floor.  I had thought the lower floors of those buildings were 2 & 3 BR spa units like the ones above the loft floors, but apparently they are villa units per the OP.  By choosing the room type judiciously, you can limit the degrees of freedom the hotel side has as to where you are located.  Anyone have a comprehensive listing of where the different room types are located?  My belief, based on very limited personal experience and readings here is that for NV it is:
> 
> ...



A little clarification on a few buildings.
Towers 1 & 2 consists of GL suites and GL Villas (the corner units). The Villas are somewhat larger with an additional room and balcony. 
Tower 3 is all GL villas and suites except for the 4th floor which are the 2/3 bed lofts.
Tower 4 is GL villa and suites on floors 1-3; loft on 4; and 2 and 3 bedroom spa units above that.

Mike


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## Eric B (Nov 15, 2017)

Thanks, Mike!  Was hoping for that.  Are the villas in tower 1 & 2 2 or 3 BR ones?

RussellSun, there’s another choice you’ll be able to make to get a higher floor with certainty; the penthouse lofts allow booking a 2 BR spa unit, and all of those are in the upper floors of tower 4.  I believe building 4A & 4B, which comprise tower 4, have 8 spa units per floor with the 3 BR ones at the corners and the 2 BR ones in the middle.  We stayed in a 2 BR river view one last visit and thought the view of the farms across the river, the mountains, and the city of Puerto Vallarta was great.  In that building, at least, they delivered coffe on carts to each floor in the morning; think they do that for all the GL ones.  We were on the lowest of the spa floors.


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## mikenk (Nov 15, 2017)

Eric B said:


> Thanks, Mike!  Was hoping for that.  Are the villas in tower 1 & 2 2 or 3 BR ones?
> 
> RussellSun, there’s another choice you’ll be able to make to get a higher floor with certainty; the penthouse lofts allow booking a 2 BR spa unit, and all of those are in the upper floors of tower 4.  I believe building 4A & 4B, which comprise tower 4, have 8 spa units per floor with the 3 BR ones at the corners and the 2 BR ones in the middle.  We stayed in a 2 BR river view one last visit and thought the view of the farms across the river, the mountains, and the city of Puerto Vallarta was great.  In that building, at least, they delivered coffe on carts to each floor in the morning; think they do that for all the GL ones.  We were on the lowest of the spa floors.



All the villas are 2 bedrooms with the extra room that can be used as a separate living area or made up as a bedroom - not as good as a third bedroom - but OK. We wanted the villa as the lock-off gives you the extra room which we use occasionally.

As for locations, IMO, the best locations in order in Nuevo are.
1: Mayan Palace
2: Grand Mayan
3: Grand Bliss
4: Punta
5 and on: the GL towers in order with the Residence unit between 4 and 5

Mike


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## Eric B (Nov 15, 2017)

Are you basing the ranking on proximity to the beach, ability to walk out and catch a bus, favorite restaurants, quality of the rooms or a balance of those considerations?  Will the Cirque park opening color your ranking (considering possible access point IVO tower 5)?  Just curious.


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## mikenk (Nov 15, 2017)

Eric B said:


> Are you basing the ranking on proximity to the beach, ability to walk out and catch a bus, favorite restaurants, quality of the rooms or a balance of those considerations?  Will the Cirque park opening color your ranking (considering possible access point IVO tower 5)?  Just curious.



Just a balance of distance to beach / views / restaurants. Catching 2 shuttles to go to Lazy river is not as good as a 3 minute walk. Will have to wait for Cirque to open to see if that changes anything.

Mike


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## RussellSun (Nov 15, 2017)

mikenk said:


> All the villas are 2 bedrooms with the extra room that can be used as a separate living area or made up as a bedroom - not as good as a third bedroom - but OK. We wanted the villa as the lock-off gives you the extra room which we use occasionally.
> 
> As for locations, IMO, the best locations in order in Nuevo are.
> 1: Mayan Palace
> ...



I love the location of Grand Bliss at Nuevo Vallarta. It seems like a nice balance of luxury, location and views. The views at Grand Bliss Nuevo Vallarta are unbeatable. I love the Grand Bliss pool at Nuevo Vallarta. Direct head on views at the beach. All in all, I think the Grand Bliss Nuevo Vallarta may be the best bet for Grand Luxxe owners looking for ocean views because we get priority there for the best rooms.


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## lauramiddl (Nov 16, 2017)

We will be trading into a jungle suite president's week. I've been researching when then lazy river will open and have found only a few hints. Vidanta Facebook post mentions an special announcement will come in December and recent resort reviews include mentions of ongoing construction of pool near the new jungle suites with one commenter saying the lazy river was opening in November (which would be anytime, then). 

 If anybody learns anything, please share!


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## Zinjanthropus (Dec 16, 2017)

We were there thanksgiving week2017. We stayed at jungle building four and there was still construction in our building. We were the first to stay in our rooms. The layout is large 1bedroom with nice living room and two bathrooms. It’s a beautiful room style and we had two of them . The only complaint -and this is hardly a complaint- was the smallish balconies as compared to “regular” Grand Luxxe rooms. The lazy river will be huge and will make the Jungle buildings not seem so remote. 

https://zoom.earth/#20.769752,-86.956218,18z,sat 

Take a look at the size of this thing on satellite. The jungle will be a popular area. 

To your question;
We asked and the workers said it would be a few more months before it’s finished although it looked very close to finished in our area; but it is a huge river which snakes through the woods so it may take a long time to finish.


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## lauramiddl (Jan 11, 2018)

Just read a Vidanta Facebook post that the lazy river won't open until summer. I was hoping it's be in February.  

https://m.facebook.com/comment/repl...2715&gfid=AQAToGqnpuj_Ze07&ref=content_filter


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## Zinjanthropus (Jan 12, 2018)

Link broken. Which Vidanta facebook page is that on?


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## lauramiddl (Jan 13, 2018)

Sorry about the link. Maybe it just works for me?. Link from Facebook Grand Luxxxe page post on 1/5 at 1:30 pm (pst?) Look in comments


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## Zinjanthropus (May 21, 2018)

https://www.facebook.com/ultimateva...ioW1eR7xbDlziLiKuIG953RurhK7hrkG9JxyQ&fref=nf
I don't know if this has ben discussed but it looks like they're stopping the construction of the RM Lazy river indefinitely. One rumor -don't know if it's true- was they came across a Mayan Ruin and can't build upon it.


--ETA-- If that link doesn't work, look for;
 Vidanta Grand Luxxe - Grand Bliss - Grand Mayan facebook page for May the 3rd.

-- here's that rumor from the same facebook page;

_  I heard they found Mayan ruins and will have to excavate and incorporate them into the design as they cannot be removed. I was also told by a sales person that they are now building a water park in the middle of the lazy river that will include a wave pool like Nuevo Vallarta along with water slides and other fun things._


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## melissy123 (Jul 9, 2018)

Just checking to see if they haven’t restarted work on the Lazy River in RM?


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## petenjen (Jan 9, 2019)

We were there in December and they were back to working on it.   Lot's of construction going on.   Still had a ways to go, though.


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## MoPops (Jan 9, 2019)

Ha!  We were there a year ago about now, and were told it would open last summer. We are going back in Feb, and it looks like it still won’t be open.. They told us last year that it was ready, but the president of vidanta toured it, and said it wasn’t good enough.  So they were redoing everything.  
We didn’t go to an update last year, and are planning to miss it this year.  Two years ago in NV we “upgraded” who knows what we really did, from a GL Loft to a GL 1 BR.  Every time I call in they say, oh yes I see you are a loft owner, I say, no I’m a 1 BR owner.  Won’t know until we get there next month to see exactly what we have.  I do like it there though.


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## jssquared (Jan 9, 2019)

Plans for the Lazy River in RM have greatly expanded.  I was at a presentation a month or so ago and saw the renderings.  They showed some water slides, lounging areas, a restaurant etc.  Said it would be ready by March (which in Vidanta years probably means next Christmas season).  Plans do look great though.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Jan 9, 2019)

jssquared said:


> Plans for the Lazy River in RM have greatly expanded...... Said it would be ready by March (which in Vidanta years probably means next Christmas season).  Plans do look great though.



Only 12 years in the making / or is it 15 years ?

Pittle / Phyllis - has posted when she first heard about it & saw construction . ( 2005 or 2007 - I think ? )


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## jssquared (Jan 9, 2019)

Famous last words but, "this time is different."  When we were in RM this Thanksgiving they were almost done with the new Grand Luxxe Jungle lobby.  Literally moving in some furniture.  It is probably open by now.  With all of the jungle units going in far from the beach and removed from pretty much everything else, they kind of need a central pool, lobby and activity area.  This is probably that space.  Hopefully, will be done soon.  The plans at least looked fantastic.


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## petenjen (Jan 9, 2019)

Indeed.   We were there for the first week in December.  I was amazed at how much work got done on the Jungle lobby while we were there.   Encouraging...


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## Utsie (Jan 10, 2019)

pittle said:


> The reason I think Vidanta's computer system is poor is because we are excellent sales prospects but they misclassified us as poor sales prospects. The sold us the wrong product. They should have put us in a better room from the start and moved us to Grand Luxxe right from the beginning. The probably could have sold us a more expensive Grand Luxxe on Day 1. If they were more sophisticated in marketing, they would have done this. Instead, they treated us like crap, put a sour taste in my mouth and undersold us what I consider to be a cheap Grand Luxxe package that I do not really like. However, now I do not want to upgrade because I do not want to spend more money with them. They had their one shot and blew it.
> 
> I do not think that they do credit checks for all exchanges.  They just lump all  "newbies" in the same group - "fresh meat".   Now that you are an owner, even if you exchange, they will know it.


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## Utsie (Jan 10, 2019)

I am new to TUG but have been reading your blog. We first bought at timeshare level at the Mayan in Cabo in 2016. In 2017 we bought 3 BR Grand Luxxe Chairman level with 2 special addendums. I have to say that we will use it for the first time this year. I have stayed in contact with our salesman. He was so nice the entire time. I admired a decanter, wine and bourbon glass set on his desk and two days later he bought a set for me  we still do not know how to navigate using everything we have. I made a negative comment on Twitter about not understanding our contract, and I was connected with a woman who called me and explained everything. At the end of our conversation she gave us our choice of a free week in a 2BR Grand Luxxe whenever we wanted. Our experience has been very positive although I must say I wish we never got ourselves into this. We are seniors and will never get our money out.


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## pittle (Jan 11, 2019)

I dug through old photos and found some pictures of the RM Lazy River from years ago. The first time I saw it was in November 2005.  It still is not done. I think they may have torn it out and recreated it like they did the one in PP.  It originally was between the two rows of MP buildings.  Recently, the ones that have never opened have been converted to GL Jungle units.

This photo is in November 2005 - you can barely see it in the background behind the trees that were damaged from the hurricane. You can see the outline of the MP buildings in the background.




This was in October 2008 that someone posted on the MP Yahoo group.  It was full of yucky water.


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## jssquared (Jan 11, 2019)

Here are the plans for the new area.


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## holdaer (Jan 11, 2019)

Wow! Those plans look impressive! Hope it comes to fruition.


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## Eric B (Feb 20, 2019)

jssquared said:


> Famous last words but, "this time is different."  When we were in RM this Thanksgiving they were almost done with the new Grand Luxxe Jungle lobby.  Literally moving in some furniture.  It is probably open by now.  With all of the jungle units going in far from the beach and removed from pretty much everything else, they kind of need a central pool, lobby and activity area.  This is probably that space.  Hopefully, will be done soon.  The plans at least looked fantastic.



Jungle Luxxe Lobby is finished now and open.  Looks quite nice and conveniently located for the lazy river/waterpark.


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## mikenk (Feb 21, 2019)

Eric,

We have not been to RM for years - considering going next year. DW hard to convince as she likes NV. Couple of questions.

Can a GL villa resident use the Lazy River - or is it exclusive to 'Jungle Folks'? DW likes lazy river; being restricted would not go over well.

Any other considerations for us NV GL people to entice us to go to RM - or not?

Mike


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## pittle (Feb 21, 2019)

mikenk said:


> Eric,
> 
> We have not been to RM for years - considering going next year. DW hard to convince as she likes NV. Couple of questions.
> 
> ...




I would think that GL Villa Owners can use any of the pools in RM.  GLV is a significant upgrade of the GL Jungle units.  The higher levels can always go down, but you cannot go up to the amenities of the higher levels from a lower one.

Tell Betty to try it once - just because.  Then you will have it out of your system and go back to NV.  The golf is not as good at RM as it is in NV per my golfing friends.


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## Sandy VDH (Feb 21, 2019)

Do you have an overall map of RM now?  I am trying to figure out where this Jungle part fits into the whole RM layout.


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## mikenk (Feb 21, 2019)

pittle said:


> I would think that GL Villa Owners can use any of the pools in RM.  GLV is a significant upgrade of the GL Jungle units.  The higher levels can always go down, but you cannot go up to the amenities of the higher levels from a lower one.
> 
> Tell Betty to try it once - just because.  Then you will have it out of your system and go back to NV.  The golf is not as good at RM as it is in NV per my golfing friends.



Hi Pittle,

While I realize in the past, the higher levels could always go down in amenities, I have not been as active recently in following all the changes. It seems I keep seeing more building specific amenities showing up in discussions. That's why I asked. I don't want to be the person to tell Betty she can not use the Lazy River - or anything else.

You're right; the golf does not compare between the two - but the Par 3 RM course is still quite fun.

Mike


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## richontug (Feb 21, 2019)

We were at RM a few weeks ago.  We had exchanged into GL.  We had to do the "update" to get access to GL pool.

Someone at the pool said the Lazy River could not be completed because of significant archaeological remains being found in certain area. The water slides park will be completed.

Rich


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## Eric B (Feb 21, 2019)

mikenk said:


> Eric,
> 
> We have not been to RM for years - considering going next year. DW hard to convince as she likes NV. Couple of questions.
> 
> ...



Mike,

What we were told by sales is that the Lazy River, now being called the Water Park, will be free access for Grand Luxxe, but not for anyone else in the resort.  It being Riviera Maya, it's not entirely clear whether that will include folks exchanging into GL rather than using their own ownership weeks to go there as is the case periodically for the GL Pool and the Beach Club.  If you're using your own week in a Villa, you should be able to access it if it is open then.  Last word I heard from sales was they are targeting June of this year for opening; there is a lot of construction going on there and it is much closer to being ready than it was when we were there last year, so I'm confident they are still planning on opening it, though as usual the date is in question.  One of the concierges in the Jungle Luxxe buildings said it wouldn't be opening for another year, but we were just asking as many people as we could to see if anyone had any actual information available; I don't put too much stock into either the sales or the random individual responses as to what the actual date will be, but work is progressing.

Jssquared posted a plat of what will be in the Water Park earlier in this string.  Looks like it will include a wave pool and there were a lot of water slide parts visible in the construction area last week as well as some of those large buckets you see in other water parks.  In my opinion, it's going to a bit of a bigger deal than just a Lazy River; the sales folks were also saying that they would be allowing outside visits for fees to a limited extent as well as free access for GL, but it's not really apparent from the plat whether it will really be set up for that.  Prior site plans had included a more major water park installation inland from the Cirque Theater, so it's not really clear to me whether this is replacing those plans since their using the same terms to discuss it or whether there will be two water parks.  We'll have to see what ends up happening, but I'm pretty confident that they will finish the one by the Jungle Luxxe units.  As an aside, they now have a wood pathway between the Jungle Luxxe units and the water park with extensions that go into the park; looks to be a very short walk for folks that stay there and might be worth considering as an option for stays in RM in the future if that's what interests someone going there.

As for other considerations, the new Salum area has a nice selection of smaller restaurants, including the RM version of La Cantina.  We didn't eat at that one, but did like the Waves and Tacos, which wasn't terribly expensive for the size of the tacos as compared to ones out in town.  There is also a tamale stand and an ice cream stand in the Mexican Mercado portion of Salum that are good and not terribly expensive.  I won't say there inexpensive, but somewhere between what you would pay in a more traditional Vidanta restaurant and what it would cost out in town.  They also have a decent selection of Mexican craft beers on tap at a bar in Salum that are worth trying if you're into that (I am).  I haven't seen that many craft beers on tap in NV, so I count that as a plus for RM.  The house draft beer at the Beach Club last week was a Mundo Maya Clara or Obscura; I'm fairly certain that the brewery was ripping off @pittle for the term "Mayan World" but can't prove anything. The Mundo Maya Obscura really isn't all that dark and seems more like an American Pale Ale or an IPA; think it was 110 pesos for a 14 oz draft; 2 during happy hour.  They do have some decent theme nights at Salum; we enjoyed the Retro Night (60s-80s music) and the Mexican Kermes Night.  The only other enticement I can think of is the Cirque Joya show; seems like it'll be a while before they get one in NV.  We like the fact that it's a nonstop flight for us down there instead of having to connect through Houston to get to PV/NV, but to be frank, for me the treatment differential between owning and exchanging is much higher in RM than NV as is the differential between platinum and non-platinum.  I think we've figured out getting off the resort much better in NV and I'm more comfortable just walking off there, but both are manageable.

Eric


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## Eric B (Feb 21, 2019)

Sandy VDH said:


> Do you have an overall map of RM now?  I am trying to figure out where this Jungle part fits into the whole RM layout.



Sandy, you can find the map at the Vidanta.com website at https://www.vidanta.com/documents/65216/76629/Riviera-Maya.pdf.  The Jungle Luxxe units are the two strings north of the Bliss; the last Bliss building on the east of the string of three is now the Jungle Luxxe Lobby.  You can get a more current map and better info by downloading the Vidanta Resorts app; that will also include the Salum area, which is west of the Beach Club.  I'm assuming you're asking about the Jungle Luxxe; there is also the GM Jungle part, which is labeled with the number 6.


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## Eric B (Feb 21, 2019)

mikenk said:


> Hi Pittle,
> 
> While I realize in the past, the higher levels could always go down in amenities, I have not been as active recently in following all the changes. It seems I keep seeing more building specific amenities showing up in discussions. That's why I asked. I don't want to be the person to tell Betty she can not use the Lazy River - or anything else.
> 
> ...



The only building specific stuff I know about would be the pools on the top of NV tower 5 and the residence building.  I know you have to be in those buildings to use those pools, though they also let platinum folks in.  I don't know of any building-specific ones in RM unless you count the coffee service, though I did see a coati that wasn't staying in GL building 4 in RM going for the cookies they had set out with the coffee one morning.  I don't think he was supposed to be doing that, but there wasn't anyone from security or anything to tell him he couldn't; in fact, I don't think he had any wristband on at all....


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## petenjen (Feb 22, 2019)

I can attest to the quality of La Cantina restaurant at RM.   It was excellent.   However, ordering a second round of the mezcal tasting was probably a mistake...


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## MoPops (Feb 22, 2019)

I forgot about the Salum area.  It was under construction when we were there last year.  Sounds great. We will try some craft beers for sure. We did eat a breakfast over at the nice restaurant near there.  It was the same breakfast buffet they have everywhere, but was more expensive there.  I think it was Quinto.  Nice restaurant, just surprised they charged additional for the same breakfast.  We didn’t try it for dinner.  Three years ago the prices were more reasonable (in my opinion) then when we went back last year, it seemed like they had increased meal prices to more what we would pay in the US.  Might just have been my imagination.   Definitely looking forward to this water area.  We have reservations for 1-15-2020 for two weeks.  Will have grandkids with us for some of that.  The water park would be great.   Hopefully another 11months is enough time to get it done.


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## jssquared (Feb 22, 2019)

I will put in a plug for the churro bar in Salum in RM.  If you are into it - the Nutella stuffed (or caramel stuffed) churros are fantastic.  My daughter will literally not get a churro anywhere else not that she had one in RM this past November. I think Salum is a fantastic addition to the RM resort.


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## rpennisi (Feb 23, 2019)

The Salem area is a great addition to the resort, so many additional restaurants to pick from.  They packed a lot in a small area.
The Vidanta phone app is also a excellent addition, esp the gps function with the new winding paths and “jungle” vegetation.


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## MoPops (Feb 24, 2019)

We are here.. Managed to get 3rd floor in building #2.   Downloaded the app. Much improved from last year. One thing I noticed that’s changed from last year.  The trams are much bigger. So, I doubt everyone is waiting like we had to last year.  We were in the furthest back GL jungle loft building and we walked most of the time, as waiting for tram was forever.  Unfortunately the trams are now powered by little tugs. They aren’t electric anymore which means a bit louder.  Still a great place.


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## MoPops (Feb 26, 2019)

Ok, here’s an interesting tidbit.  Maybe new to this group.  I went into member services this morning.  I received a lot of very good information about my contract.  I also ran into 2 couples trying to rescind the agreements they had signed the day before.  I managed to tell one about this website, and thread about rescinding agreements in Mexico.  
The news about the water park is this.  At the last meeting the person I was speaking to in member services said it was announced that the water park which is supposed to be done by July or December, will be independent from the resort and open to the public.  If you are in the resort and want to go, you leave and come back in through the public entrance. Everyone will have to pay to go.  I asked is this including the lazy river right by Grand Luxxe Jungle units?  I was told yes.  
I’m going to try and change my reservation for next Jan from RM to NV.  I was told it could also be changed any time.  

Ate in Salum last night.  Had the tacos. Great place.  We sat at the bar (kitchen really) and watched the 3 cooks make 1,000 tacos.  Really enjoyed it. And some great shrimp tacos.  Going for sushi tonight.  They had a festival going on with a band, singing and dancing in the Salum market.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pittle (Feb 26, 2019)

MoPops said:


> At the last meeting the person I was speaking to in member services said it was announced that the water park which is supposed to be done by July or December, will be independent from the resort and open to the public.  If you are in the resort and want to go, you leave and come back in through the public entrance. Everyone will have to pay to go.  I asked is this including the lazy river right by Grand Luxxe Jungle units?  I was told yes.



Years ago in Acapulco, you had to pay to use the water park.  Once the GM was built, GM people could use it for free but MP people had to pay.  The first time we were upgraded to GM, we gave our wristbands to some people we met when we left so they could use them. 

I do hate that they are charging owners for use - after-all, this was originally for MP units that were far from the beach.  It has been under construction for a LONG time.  I saw the beginning of it back in 2005 and in 2007, it looked nearly ready to open.

I prefer NV to RM. While both are huge, it is easier to escape NV and if you do not, there is a much nicer beach and lots of pools.

Thanks for the update.  Glad that you were able to get answers to your questions from Customer Services.


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## MoPops (Feb 26, 2019)

Another discussion with someone trying to convince me to go to the owners update meeting says the lazy river is not part of the water park.  It “will” be available to everyone staying at RM and will be ready in July.  I’m sorry if I’ve confused anyone.  Everyone here has a different story!  Ha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jssquared (Feb 26, 2019)

Perhaps there is some confusion as over time there has been talk of two different things: lazy river complex near the now Jungle Luxxe units and a Xel Ha - style water theme park across the highway behind the Cirque theater.  From pictures I have seen, I would imagine it would be hard to let someone use the lazy river but not the water slides within the lazy river complex.  I can easily imagine Vidanta charging a couple of bucks to ride the water slide (I have absolutely no information regarding this) kind of like paying per ride at an amusement park.  I don't think this lazy river complex, while fantastic for Vidanta guests, would be too much of a draw for outside visitors (particularly with a steep entrance fee).  Now, if and when they build the Xel Ha style park I can easily believe they would charge everyone for access (or maybe sell a Xel Ha park access package to Vidanta owners - like the entertainment package).  Who knows.  With the water park we will see soon.


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## atlantabusch (Mar 13, 2019)

During my trip to RM last month we had an opportunity to see the water park first hand.   The lazy river was huge and with all concrete work finished.  There was a huge play/tree house type thing with the preverbal bucket to drench those underneath.  I could see over 6 slides and people were working like crazy.    I was told April for opening -which I find very optimistic, but another date in June seemed reasonable.   Although there are was no official communication, we were told Grand Luxxe would get complimentary access while other levels would have to pay.  The rep did make it clear that to use the water park you would have to be paying Grand Luxxe MF.   So, if you were at the Grand Bliss as a Grand Luxxe owner that would not cut it.  
Of course this is all subject to change.   Our next trip to RM will be in November, so it should definitely be open by then.   

One other thing, it looked like there would be cabanas and places you could rent/reserve.   Hopefully this waterpark will take a bit of pressure off of the Beach Club which is has a huge waiting line every morning in the peak season.


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## MoPops (Mar 14, 2019)

Interesting about the lazy river.  I look forward to your update in November.  We are supposed to be going back next Jan for 2 weeks, and will have grandkids with us for a week.  We were thinking about changing over from the GL to a GB 2BR, but it would appear we wouldn’t be able to get in to the Lazy River if we did that.. 
Also, we just got back a couple of weeks ago.  We used to go over to the beach club in years past, but didn’t go once on this last visit.  We just stayed over at the GL pool.  I heard the music was getting turned up, and the crowds were worse, so we just stayed away.  If the lazy river takes pressure off of the beach club, maybe we could go back. Ha!  I don’t know how I ever got this antisocial.


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## atlantabusch (Mar 14, 2019)

I would recommend you staying with the GL.  GB is on the other side of the property from the lazy river and GL pool.


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## MoPops (Mar 19, 2019)

Thanks.  I think we are switching to NV for next year.  Reservations made today.  Then we will try to switch to GB 2BR.   I’ll see how that goes 5/1. 
Jeff


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