# Question about Mexican resorts



## kerkev (Feb 26, 2011)

Is there any area in Mexico that's not safe?  We are looking for a timeshare.  When the resale timeshare states $550.00 for maintenance fee for usage and also maintenance fee the same price what does that mean? Do you pay that for annual fee and an additional cost when you use it?? I'm confused.  Thank you Suzanne


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## Passepartout (Feb 26, 2011)

kerkev said:


> Is there any area in Mexico that's not safe?  We are looking for a timeshare.  When the resale timeshare states $550.00 for maintenance fee for usage and also maintenance fee the same price what does that mean? Do you pay that for annual fee and an additional cost when you use it?? I'm confused.  Thank you Suzanne



The thread you refer to is from 2006, and you ask several questions. First, yes, there are unsafe places in Mexico. As well as in the USA and many other places in the world. Generally, the border areas of Mexico are good places to avoid right now. Again, generally, the resort areas have increased police and military presence and are safer for tourists.

Second, Maintenance fees and use fees are one and the same at ones's 'home' resort. If you exchange your week from your home resort to another one, there will be additionally an exchange fee, membership in an exchange compnay (RCI or II typically) on top of the MF. Clearer?

Jim Ricks


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## kerkev (Feb 26, 2011)

Passepartout said:


> The thread you refer to is from 2006, and you ask several questions. First, yes, there are unsafe places in Mexico. As well as in the USA and many other places in the world. Generally, the border areas of Mexico are good places to avoid right now. Again, generally, the resort areas have increased police and military presence and are safer for tourists.
> 
> Second, Maintenance fees and use fees are one and the same at ones's 'home' resort. If you exchange your week from your home resort to another one, there will be additionally an exchange fee, membership in an exchange compnay (RCI or II typically) on top of the MF. Clearer?
> 
> Jim Ricks


 Thanks for explaining. I'm very new at this so I'll be asking lots of questions. Much clearer.


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## Passepartout (Feb 26, 2011)

Suzanne, you may want to look over the threads in the 'Newbies' forum. Also try out the search function in the blue stripe near the top of this and every page. Most every question you could possibly have has been covered at one time or another. 

If no one has said it before, Welcome to TUG.

Jim


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## Karen G (Feb 26, 2011)

Suzanne, I've separated your questions into a new thread of its own since you initially posted to a thread from 2006.  There is a sticky post at the top of the Mexico forum that deals with safety and you can find it  here.


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## easyrider (Feb 26, 2011)

There are many resorts that you can buy into in Mexico. For us it was important to be able to go to more than one location without extra cost and that the resort we bought from is from the USA.

Villa del Palmar resorts is part of UVC ( Universal Vaction Club) based in San Diego CA. and has seven locations in Mexico.  www.myuvc.com

Worldmark is based in the USA and has 57+ resorts with some owned WM resorts in Mexico. Worldmark trades into most of the resorts in Mexico and internationally it is a good trader.
https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/

You can get both of these on Ebay for very little. VDP are going for $1.00 and WM is less about $2500.00 for 6000 points.


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## DeniseM (Feb 26, 2011)

Owning in another country can be complicated and confusing, and you don't have the same protection of the law as you do in the US.  

Mexico is a VERY easy place to exchange into with a US timeshare, and it's inexpensive to rent there, so I wouldn't buy in Mexico.  

Instead, I'd buy a US timeshare, that I would enjoy owning, and use it to trade into Mexico.

My advice for buying your first timeshare - click here

Here are some questions to ask yourself before you buy - you can click the quote button and respond to them if you wish:

New buyer questions:

1)  Where do you want your home resort to be?

2)  Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?

3)  What are your 5 top trade destinations?

4)  How many people do you usually travel with?

5)  Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?

6)  Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?

7)  Can you vacation for a full week at a time?

8)  How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?

9)  How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?

10)  Are you a detail-oriented planner?

11) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?


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## John Cummings (Feb 26, 2011)

I agree with Denise 100%. We have spent 20 timeshare weeks in Cancun, Riviera Maya, Nuevo Vallarta, Puerto Vallarta, and Mazatlan all on exchanges. You can exchange into the top resorts like the Grand Luxxe. I am not going to touch the safety issue. That is a hot button issue that has been discussed over and over on many different threads.


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## kerkev (Feb 27, 2011)

easyrider said:


> There are many resorts that you can buy into in Mexico. For us it was important to be able to go to more than one location without extra cost and that the resort we bought from is from the USA.
> 
> Villa del Palmar resorts is part of UVC ( Universal Vaction Club) based in San Diego CA. and has seven locations in Mexico.  www.myuvc.com
> 
> ...



How many weeks a year do you get with UVC AND Worldmark?  We like to go away 3x a year to the Caribbean. See the point system screws me up. How many days do you get with 6000 pts? Suzanne


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## DeniseM (Feb 27, 2011)

Suzanne - How many days you get with 6,000 points depends on the resort, unit size, season, etc.  Visit the TUG Wyndham board for expert help.


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## easyrider (Feb 27, 2011)

kerkev said:


> How many weeks a year do you get with UVC AND Worldmark?  We like to go away 3x a year to the Caribbean. See the point system screws me up. How many days do you get with 6000 pts? Suzanne



UVC owns the Villa del Palmar Puerto Vallarta, Villa del Mar- PV, Villa del Palmar Flamigos - Nuevo Vallarta, Villa del Palmar- Cabo, Villa del Arco-Cabo, Villa del Palmar- Cancun and Villa del Palmar -Loreto. This is not a point system. It is better to buy a floating winter week. There are 4 types of memberships. It is best not to buy a fixed week membership. The other memberships are "Premiere" , "Gold" and Villa Access Points. 

With our 4 Premiere weeks we could stay 16 weeks in one year, in a really nice one bed, two bath unit for about $8000.00.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135084&highlight=villa+palmar

Worldmark is a really stong trader and is a point system membership. It takes 10,000 points to get a two bed unit in red season at most resorts. With a 6000 point membership you can buy points from other members to rent as many rooms as you need. We have two memberships here so we can take advantage of bonus time. This summer we have 9 two bed units rented for August in Seaside Oregon.

Point cost to Worldmark owners on ebay is about 6 - 8 cents a point.


Here is the resort gallery. https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/

Worldmark owners can call and instantly see inventory with RCI and Interval International. The big advantage for us is we can drive to many of the WM resorts.

Both UVC and WM are based in the USA with inventory in Mexico.


Im not sure I would buy at an all Mexican owned resort which most of them are. I would not buy any timeshare that doesn't have some other benifits such as staying at more than one location. Trading and renting is really easy with Mexican resorts right now with renting giving you a better owners unit verus trading where you might get a parking lot view.

Before a person buys into a resort they should actually visit it at the very least. imo


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## easyrider (Feb 27, 2011)

Denise and John, do you folks even go to Mexico anymore ? Do either of you have a TS in Mexico ? I was just wondering as some of your other posts sugest you don't own or travel to mexico anymore.


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## DeniseM (Feb 27, 2011)

I have traveled to Mexico in the past, but my DH won't go any more - he is concerned about safety.  My DH has made lots of trips to Mexico on business in the past - I've only been twice.

I will probably take some trips in the future with my adult daughter, and I'll trade in through II.  I'm a Starwood owner, and I'd like to visit the new Starwood resort in Cancun some day.


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 27, 2011)

Buying into Mexico used to be fine.  I think, however, that Mexico is engaged in a de facto civil war.  You don't really know where the next disaster will occur.   From what I read the government is corrupt everywhere in Mexico.   The drug cartels are more powerful than the police.


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## easyrider (Feb 27, 2011)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Buying into Mexico used to be fine.  I think, however, that Mexico is engaged in a de facto civil war.  You don't really know where the next disaster will occur.   From what I read the government is corrupt everywhere in Mexico.   The drug cartels are more powerful than the police.



And you know this from your last visit ? When was your last trip to Mexico ? My last visit about a month ago tells me otherwise and I felt very safe every where I went, even at night.


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## KarenLK (Feb 27, 2011)

I just returned from 6 weeks in Puerto Vallarta and always felt safe. I spoke to many Mexican locals and they think we are all crazy to have these worries.


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## PigsDad (Feb 27, 2011)

Some people only believe what they hear on the main stream media.  "Shock" stories sell, boring truth does not.

No skin off my back -- just leaves more availability for me whn I take my family there.  

Kurt


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## John Cummings (Feb 27, 2011)

easyrider said:


> Denise and John, do you folks even go to Mexico anymore ? Do either of you have a TS in Mexico ? I was just wondering as some of your other posts sugest you don't own or travel to mexico anymore.



The last timeshare visit we did to Mexico was 2 weeks in April, 2009 at the Grand Mayan - Riviera Maya. I have said over and over I would NEVER buy a timeshare in Mexico. All of our 20 weeks we spent there were exchanges. Prior to our visit in 2009, we went almost every year for 2 weeks at a timeshare resort at the places in my earlier post. We don't have any desire to do any more timeshare vacations in Mexico. 

Interspersed with our timeshare vacations are many trips to visit family in Mexico.

As you know I have a lot of ties to Mexico.


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## John Cummings (Feb 27, 2011)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Buying into Mexico used to be fine.  I think, however, that Mexico is engaged in a de facto civil war.  You don't really know where the next disaster will occur.   From what I read the government is corrupt everywhere in Mexico.   The drug cartels are more powerful than the police.



That is very true.


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## bjones9942 (Feb 28, 2011)

I disagree with Denise.  If Mexico is where you want to go, then buy there!  Yes, it is inexpensive to rent a nice hotel room, but the maintenance fees are also inexpensive as well.  I could not rent for what my maintenance fees are.  I also don't plan on ever trading, so what's the point in buying a U.S. timeshare?

Let me just give a brief breakdown:

U.S. Timeshare maintenance fees:  $900
RCI/II Membership: $125 (?)

Trade to Mexico = 1000+

Mexico Timeshare maintenance fees:  < $500

Really - if you're buying a timeshare because you love one area and want to save a few $$$ over time, then buy where you want to go (resale - don't buy from the resort!!!).  If you want to pay-to-play the trading game then buy something with strong trading power.

And to the OP, When you 'buy' in Mexico (in costal cities) you are not buying property, but the 'right to use' the resort.  Mexico has laws about non-nationals owning property.


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## siesta (Feb 28, 2011)

ya, especially with mexican resorts with 1 in 4 rules like pueblo bonitos in cabo.  If you want to stay there every spring break or during peak times, it may be harder in the future to trade into, or you may be blocked if you don't own there.  but buy resale!


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## pjrose (Feb 28, 2011)

bjones9942 said:


> U.S. Timeshare maintenance fees:  $900
> RCI/II Membership: $125 (?)
> 
> Trade to Mexico = 1000+
> ...



Maintenance fees at the Royal Resorts are more in the $850+ range...I don't remember the latest, but around that.

Nonetheless, they are my favorite place to be!


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## DeniseM (Feb 28, 2011)

pjrose said:


> Maintenance fees at the Royal Resorts are more in the $850+ range...I don't remember the latest, but around that.
> 
> Nonetheless, they are my favorite place to be!



Yes, and there are US timeshares with MF lower than $850 that will trade in.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 28, 2011)

Or you can trade a quality, owner-controlled timeshare with maintenance fees of ~$550 for three Mexican weeks through SFX - getting the main week and two bonus weeks.  All of those weeks can be used during peak periods without any problem, and will be Mayan Palace quality or above.


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 28, 2011)

easyrider said:


> And you know this from your last visit ? When was your last trip to Mexico ? My last visit about a month ago tells me otherwise and I felt very safe every where I went, even at night.



I have visited Mexico numerous times and on occasion felt that I was not safe.  You definitely don't want to deal with police in Mexico.  Even in Cancun.  Every place in the world has its dangerous areas where you might be subjected to criminal behavior.  It is much worse when the criminal behavior is by the police.

Mexico has some beautiful resorts.  Staying on resort grounds is probably very safe.  Venturing off resort becomes riskier.  I was advised that over 15 years ago on my first trip to Cancun.  We were specifically warned about renting a car and driving to one of the ruins ourselves.  Particularly if we did not make it back before dark.  We took a tour with a group instead of going by ourselves.  That was 15 years ago and things have gotten worse.  We have returned to Mexico several times since then and stayed on resort grounds without a problem.  

Mexico has beautiful resorts and the people are generally very easy to like.  What is happening there is a real shame.  I wouldn't want to own a place outside the U.S , however, where I can't trust the government to provide for my safety.


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## taffy19 (Feb 28, 2011)

KarenLK said:


> I just returned from 6 weeks in Puerto Vallarta and always felt safe. I spoke to many Mexican locals and they think we are all crazy to have these worries.


We feel safe here too. All the bad news is really hurting the tourist industry here. It isn't very busy and restaurants are hurting too. We heard from one restaurant owner that this was the slowest year for him in 20 years. He has been in business that long so he knows what he is talking about.  

I read this story here and I have an idea where this may have happened since they were walking down the hill. That is very frightening as it happened in Puerto Vallarta.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 28, 2011)

There are numerous resorts in areas in the US and Canada where I have felt less safe than I do in any of the tourist areas in Mexico that we have visited. Yet no one here seems to question why people would want to stay at places such as the Worldmark in Seattle or any of the resorts in downtown Vancouver, for example.  

To work with some hard data, the violent crime rate in the neighborhood around the Worldmark Camlin in Seattle in 2009 was 100 violent crimes *per square mile* (Violent Crimes are a subset of Major Crimes that include Murder, Rape, Aggravated Assault and Robbery; there are official data from the City of Seattle police department).  Crime rates in the tourist areas around Puerto Vallarta, the area in Mexico with which I'm familiar, are not anywhere near that level.

Last week I went out for a walk, by myself, in Puerto Vallarta every other night after dark.  I never once felt the least bit unsafe, and I was far from the only person doing so.  That is something I would scarcely dream of doing in the Denny Triangle, where the Worldmark Camlin is located.

There are certainly many places in Puerto Vallarta where I would not venture out that way, just as there are in virtually every locale in the world.  But anyone who would eschew Mexico because of safety but feel comfortable at most urban timeshares in the US is simply not thinking logically.


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## pgnewarkboy (Feb 28, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> There are numerous resorts in areas in the US and Canada where I have felt less safe than I do in any of the tourist areas in Mexico that we have visited. Yet no one here seems to question why people would want to stay at places such as the Worldmark in Seattle or any of the resorts in downtown Vancouver, for example.
> 
> To work with some hard data, the violent crime rate in the neighborhood around the Worldmark Camlin in Seattle in 2009 was 100 violent crimes *per square mile* (Violent Crimes are a subset of Major Crimes that include Murder, Rape, Aggravated Assault and Robbery; there are official data from the City of Seattle police department).  Crime rates in the tourist areas around Puerto Vallarta, the area in Mexico with which I'm familiar, are not anywhere near that level.
> 
> ...



Most people will not travel to places where it is perceived to be unsafe.  People don't read about crime in Vancouver.  They do , however, read about the drug cartel wars in Mexico and they see it on TV and the Net often.  These murders are brutal and attention catching.  The March issue of Conde Naste Travel magazine has an excellent article about drug cartel crime and tourism in Mexico.  In a nutshell, some areas have picked up again and others have not.  Most notably Acapulco where business is down around 50%Although the mayor of Acapulco can point to the number of crimes actually in Acapulco and those outside of Acapulco, it does not help when 15 headless bodies are discovered in a Mall in Acapulco (albeit outside the tourist zone).  That draws alot of attention.  Much attention is also paid to stories about mayors , judges, and prosecutors being killed when they go against the drug cartels.  This is big eye catching news.  This simply does not happen in Canada, the U.S, or all of Europe.  It is scary and rightfully so because it says in big bold loud images that the authorities cannot manage the cartels - therefore things are out of control.  People don't want to go into places where they know things are out of control.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 28, 2011)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Most people will not travel to places where it is perceived to be unsafe.


You're absolutely right.  People make decisions based on what they perceive, and when fear and greed come into play people become even more irrational. That is why it is so important to work with data, because a wise person uses data to adjust perception. Savvy thinkers keep cool heads and legitimately reap benefits while the masses panic.

In my opinion people who don't want to be bothered to temper their perceptions with solid information are condemning themselves to making inferior decisions. And they have no one to blame but themselves.

As I've oft-noted before, you can lead a man to data but you can't make him think.

*****

It's worth also noting, however, that there are significant areas in our cities in the US where the police have largely lost control as well.


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## John Cummings (Feb 28, 2011)

bjones9942 said:


> U.S. Timeshare maintenance fees:  $900
> RCI/II Membership: $125 (?)
> 
> Trade to Mexico = 1000+



The M/F on my coastal California resort are $557. I don't use RCI. Did it many years ago but dropped them,

I can get an exchange into anywhere I want with my resort. You won't get that with a Mexican T/S because of low trading power.

My weekly cost is less than $500 because I also get 2 bonus weeks a year that I can use for exchanging. There are no M/F for these.

With a Mexican timeshare, you are pretty well locked into going there as the low trading power does not allow for exchanging to many places.


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## John Cummings (Feb 28, 2011)

siesta said:


> ya, especially with mexican resorts with 1 in 4 rules like pueblo bonitos in cabo.  If you want to stay there every spring break or during peak times, it may be harder in the future to trade into, or you may be blocked if you don't own there.  but buy resale!



The 1 in 4 rule applies only to exchanging with RCI. I have no limits on how often I can exchange into the same resort regardless of where it is. I can exchange into any resort regardless of resort affiliation.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 28, 2011)

John Cummings said:


> The M/F on my coastal California resort are $557. I don't use RCI. Did it many years ago but dropped them,
> 
> I can get an exchange into anywhere I want with my resort. You won't get that with a Mexican T/S because of low trading power.
> 
> ...


My situation is identical with John's.


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## John Cummings (Feb 28, 2011)

pgnewarkboy said:


> I have visited Mexico numerous times and on occasion felt that I was not safe.  You definitely don't want to deal with police in Mexico.  Even in Cancun.  Every place in the world has its dangerous areas where you might be subjected to criminal behavior.  It is much worse when the criminal behavior is by the police.
> 
> Mexico has some beautiful resorts.  Staying on resort grounds is probably very safe.  Venturing off resort becomes riskier.  I was advised that over 15 years ago on my first trip to Cancun.  We were specifically warned about renting a car and driving to one of the ruins ourselves.  Particularly if we did not make it back before dark.  We took a tour with a group instead of going by ourselves.  That was 15 years ago and things have gotten worse.  We have returned to Mexico several times since then and stayed on resort grounds without a problem.
> 
> Mexico has beautiful resorts and the people are generally very easy to like.  What is happening there is a real shame.  I wouldn't want to own a place outside the U.S , however, where I can't trust the government to provide for my safety.



Having much closer ties to Mexico than others, I agree with you completely. Institutionalized corruption has been a problem in Mexico from day one but is has gotten much worse now.

People need to read what you are saying and not just jump on the ridiculous data comparisons.


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## John Cummings (Feb 28, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> There are numerous resorts in areas in the US and Canada where I have felt less safe than I do in any of the tourist areas in Mexico that we have visited. Yet no one here seems to question why people would want to stay at places such as the Worldmark in Seattle or any of the resorts in downtown Vancouver, for example.



Steve,

This is off topic but it is funny how you mention Vancouver. Most people have the perception that Vancouver is very safe. However, the reality is that many US cities have less crime. Seattle, San Diego, San Jose, all have considerably lower crime rates. Believe it or not, Victoria has a high crime rate. Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg also have high crime rates. 

There used to be a web site where you could compare the crime rates for cities in both the US and Canada but it doesn't exist anymore. 

It is hard to directly compare the murder rates between Canada and the US because of how they are classified. A lot of crimes that we call murder are called manslaughter or aggravated assault in Canada. There was a case in downtown Vancouver of a minority male beaten to death for no reason other than being a minority. The charge was not murder but aggravated assault. It was not even called a hate crime.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Feb 28, 2011)

John Cummings said:


> Steve,
> 
> This is off topic but it is funny how you mention Vancouver. Most people have the perception that Vancouver is very safe. However, the reality is that many US cities have less crime. Seattle, San Diego, San Jose, all have considerably lower crime rates. Believe it or not, Victoria has a high crime rate. Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg also have high crime rates. ...



I bring it up because while I certainly enjoy downtown Vancouver, I am quite aware that there is significant danger of crime in the area.  

Similarly, I worked in Pioneer Square in downtown Seattle, and there was on average at least one serious violent crime per week in the area near my office. Pioneer Square is a heavy tourist and visitor area, and visitors are far from immune from attack.

My son and DIL live in Belltown, on the other side of Seattle, not far from the Camlin (Worldmark), and a few blocks from the Space Needle. Again violent assault is relatively common in the are. Like Pioneer Square, Belltown is a heavily tourist area.  In fact, I think Belltown is probably the area of Seattle where a visitor is most likely to find themselves injured in a random shooting.

*****

I'm not intending to diminish or slight the issues of crime and institutionalized corruption in Mexico.  I wouldn't be surprised if it were a tradition that extended back to before the arrival of the conquistadores.  But context matters, and in the popular tourist areas in Mexico such as Puerto Vallarta I think that a person is safer than they are in the popular downtown areas of almost any major US cities. Once you venture outside those tourist areas, though, I have a totally different feeling.  And I'm much more reticent about renting a car and heading out on my own now than I was five or six years ago, when we did our day trip to Tepic.

That doesn't paralyze me from doing things - in January I spent two weeks in Guatemala with half of that time well off the tourist beaten path.  But you do need to be aware of where you are and have some knowledge of where you are going, and what the safety rules are for the area where you will be.


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## MuranoJo (Mar 1, 2011)

John Cummings said:


> With a Mexican timeshare, you are pretty well locked into going there as the low trading power does not allow for exchanging to many places.



As with the crime-in-various-areas discussion, this also has exceptions.

I have a holiday week that can get me into some high-demand areas, even with a hotel unit.  I've gotten into 2 bd units in Aruba, HI oceanfront, or 1 bd 4/4 MC in NYC, just as examples for a studio, estimating roughly $260 m/f for the studio.  And this is through RCI, so no Westins or Marriotts for me. 

And for those that don't have holiday weeks, of course they can now combine weeks (for a fee) and go just about anywhere, depending on their total TPU.


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## John Cummings (Mar 1, 2011)

muranojo said:


> As with the crime-in-various-areas discussion, this also has exceptions.
> 
> I have a holiday week that can get me into some high-demand areas, even with a hotel unit.  I've gotten into 2 bd units in Aruba, HI oceanfront, or 1 bd 4/4 MC in NYC, just as examples for a studio, estimating roughly $260 m/f for the studio.  And this is through RCI, so no Westins or Marriotts for me.
> 
> And for those that don't have holiday weeks, of course they can now combine weeks (for a fee) and go just about anywhere, depending on their total TPU.



Of course there are exceptions to everything but in general Mexican timeshares have very low trading power.

Combining weeks means that you are giving up 2 weeks to get 1. Doesn't sound very good to me. With my Coastal California resort, I can exchange anywhere I want without giving up anything.


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## kerkev (Mar 1, 2011)

John Cummings said:


> The M/F on my coastal California resort are $557. I don't use RCI. Did it many years ago but dropped them,
> 
> I can get an exchange into anywhere I want with my resort. You won't get that with a Mexican T/S because of low trading power.
> 
> ...



What do you mean by $500 weekly cost? Do you mean maintenance fees or use for the week? Where do you get 2 bonus bonus weeks a year?


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 1, 2011)

kerkev said:


> Where do you get 2 bonus bonus weeks a year?


Read post #24, above.


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## kerkev (Mar 1, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> I have traveled to Mexico in the past, but my DH won't go any more - he is concerned about safety.  My DH has made lots of trips to Mexico on business in the past - I've only been twice.
> 
> I will probably take some trips in the future with my adult daughter, and I'll trade in through II.  I'm a Starwood owner, and I'd like to visit the new Starwood resort in Cancun some day.



Denise, I've been reading and educating myself on TS ownership. You say to buy a US TS but my husband and I love the Caribbean. The only other place we like is Myrtle Beach SC. We enjoy it in Sept which is not a prime time so trading to go to the Caribbean would be difficult. So many opinions which are helpful but somewhat confusing. Suzanne


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## Karen G (Mar 1, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Read post #24, above.


After reading post #24 above, if your next question is "what is SFX," you can find out  here.


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## DeniseM (Mar 1, 2011)

kerkev said:


> Denise, I've been reading and educating myself on TS ownership. You say to buy a US TS but my husband and I love the Caribbean. The only other place we like is Myrtle Beach SC. We enjoy it in Sept which is not a prime time so trading to go to the Caribbean would be difficult. So many opinions which are helpful but somewhat confusing. Suzanne



Some people own resorts that they only use for renting or trading (I've never seen 3 of the resorts I own.)  It is entirely possible to buy a week at a bargain price, that is a strong trader.  The advantage to this is:

1)  You can trade into the top resorts in Mexico for a much lower cost, both upfront and ongoing.  For instance right now, you can trade into the Grand Luxxe through Interval International.  These units are selling for $60K retail and the maintenance fee is $1,500 a week. But I can use a 1 bdm. that cost less than $1,000, with a maintenance fee of $800, and trade into a 2 bdm. unit at the Grand Luxxe.

2)  You own a deeded week in the US where you are under the protection of US law.

3)  You own a strong trader that can be used for other locations besides Mexico - if you buy in Mexico, you will find that it's a weak trader, if you want to go somewhere else.


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## pjrose (Mar 1, 2011)

kerkev said:


> Denise, I've been reading and educating myself on TS ownership. You say to buy a US TS but my husband and I love the Caribbean. The only other place we like is Myrtle Beach SC. We enjoy it in Sept which is not a prime time so trading to go to the Caribbean would be difficult. So many opinions which are helpful but somewhat confusing. Suzanne





DeniseM said:


> Some people own resorts that they only use for renting or trading (I've never seen 3 of the resorts I own.)  It is entirely possible to buy a week at a bargain price, that is a strong trader.  The advantage to this is. . .



Exactly.  We got great advice of buying inexpensive weeks to use for trading.  We have never seen two TS's that we own; we bought them strictly for trading and have always traded up for bigger units and far better resorts.


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## kerkev (Mar 1, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Some people own resorts that they only use for renting or trading (I've never seen 3 of the resorts I own.)  It is entirely possible to buy a week at a bargain price, that is a strong trader.  The advantage to this is:
> 
> 1)  You can trade into the top resorts in Mexico for a much lower cost, both upfront and ongoing.  For instance right now, you can trade into the Grand Luxxe through Interval International.  These units are selling for $60K retail and the maintenance fee is $1,500 a week. But I can use a 1 bdm. that cost less than $1,000, with a maintenance fee of $800, and trade into a 2 bdm. unit at the Grand Luxxe.
> 
> ...



I've read that you need to buy a TS in a place you like to visit most of the time. So I would need to buy in a strong exchange week meaning prime week. US is Myrtle Beach in summer will give me a good exchange to another resort. The only thing is the high end TS are not cheap in resale and mf are high.


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## Karen G (Mar 1, 2011)

kerkev said:


> The only thing is the high end TS are not cheap in resale and mf are high.


The prices you see for resales are asking prices. Often the actual sale price is lower. 

You might just try renting from an owner in a place you want to vacation. Often rentals are below the maintenance fees.


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## DeniseM (Mar 1, 2011)

kerkev said:


> I've read that you need to buy a TS in a place you like to visit most of the time. So I would need to buy in a strong exchange week meaning prime week. US is Myrtle Beach in summer will give me a good exchange to another resort. The only thing is the high end TS are not cheap in resale and mf are high.



In most cases, owning where you want to go is the best strategy, but in my opinion, the negatives about owning in Mexico, out weigh any advantages - see #1-3 above.

You can buy a strong trader in Myrtle Beach on the resale market for less than $1,000.  I'd suggest a summer week at the Starwood Resort, Sheraton Broadway Plantation.

But for a pure trader, I'd buy at Sheraton Desert Oasis in Scottsdale.  A 2 bedroom lock-off with a maintenance fee of about $900, can be split, and deposited in II, and will give you 2 strong traders for about $450 per year (each side.)  You can buy a Plat week for less than $1,000.  It will easily trade into the top Mexican resorts, including Starwoods new resort in Cancun - Lagunamar, and most of the other Starwood resorts, except Westin St. John, and Harborside Atlantis.  Using my 1 bdm. SDO week, I can see 2 bdm. exchanges at the Grand Luxxe right now.


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## siesta (Mar 1, 2011)

or if you buy wyndham points, specifically at a MB property, you have ARP (13 month advanced booking window) on all MB properties in the portfolio, there is currently 5 of them, 4 on the beach. You would have access to all the other resorts in the portfolio as well at 10 months out.

The starwood MB property is not on a beach.


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## John Cummings (Mar 1, 2011)

kerkev said:


> What do you mean by $500 weekly cost? Do you mean maintenance fees or use for the week? Where do you get 2 bonus bonus weeks a year?



Total cost including everything.

San Francisco Exchange. I have used them exclusively for 14 years.


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## John Cummings (Mar 1, 2011)

kerkev said:


> Denise, I've been reading and educating myself on TS ownership. You say to buy a US TS but my husband and I love the Caribbean. The only other place we like is Myrtle Beach SC. We enjoy it in Sept which is not a prime time so trading to go to the Caribbean would be difficult. So many opinions which are helpful but somewhat confusing. Suzanne



There are a lot of floating week resorts where you reserve the date you want much like at a hotel. I own floating weeks. That way I can reserve the best week for trading power if I am going to exchange it or some other week if I am going to use it. Some people don't like floating weeks but they have worked very well for us. We always trade our weeks and am able to reserve the top trading week, typically July 4th week.


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## timeos2 (Mar 1, 2011)

*Great deal for use or trade from Myrtle Beach*



kerkev said:


> I've read that you need to buy a TS in a place you like to visit most of the time. So I would need to buy in a strong exchange week meaning prime week. US is Myrtle Beach in summer will give me a good exchange to another resort. The only thing is the high end TS are not cheap in resale and mf are high.



As in most areas where they have resorts the Wyndham system can offer a very inexpensive way to own in Myrtle Beach with reasonable fees and a very easy ability to trade. Just be sure to buy enough points based there for at least a 2 bedroom, prime season and plan to use the 13 month ARP to get a top time.  On years when you don't plan to visit MB you'll have a lot of points that can easily get two or even three or more weeks of use in the Wyndham/RCI system that comes along with your Wyndham ownership.  

NEVER buy retail Wyndham as it is basically a ripoff but resale can be a great value. Take a look at it for one option at MB.


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## hellolani (Mar 15, 2011)

*Recommendations for an independent trader for Canadians?*

This thread is a goldmine of info for people trying to figure out what to buy!  I love going to Mexico but am hesitant to buy there now with so much advice to trade instead.  Based on the info in here, I'd love to find a good trader with an independent resort (if possible) that has low MF (I'm sure that would have gone without saying) in Canada or Washington as I live in Vancouver on resale.  I guess my question would be, since I am highly inexperienced, any names of resorts that you guys would recommend?  I've been hanging out on redweek and ebay but I have no idea how to figure out the trading power of any given resort.  If you guys were starting up your portfolios again and needed to stock an inexpensive independent trader, what would be the max price you would consider and the max MF, and what brands or names would you be looking for?  Thanks for any tips!



DeniseM said:


> Some people own resorts that they only use for renting or trading (I've never seen 3 of the resorts I own.)  It is entirely possible to buy a week at a bargain price, that is a strong trader.  The advantage to this is:
> 
> 1)  You can trade into the top resorts in Mexico for a much lower cost, both upfront and ongoing.  For instance right now, you can trade into the Grand Luxxe through Interval International.  These units are selling for $60K retail and the maintenance fee is $1,500 a week. But I can use a 1 bdm. that cost less than $1,000, with a maintenance fee of $800, and trade into a 2 bdm. unit at the Grand Luxxe.
> 
> ...


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## CatLovers (Mar 15, 2011)

hellolani said:


> This thread is a goldmine of info for people trying to figure out what to buy!  I love going to Mexico but am hesitant to buy there now with so much advice to trade instead.  Based on the info in here, I'd love to find a good trader with an independent resort (if possible) that has low MF (I'm sure that would have gone without saying) in Canada or Washington as I live in Vancouver on resale.  I guess my question would be, since I am highly inexperienced, any names of resorts that you guys would recommend?  I've been hanging out on redweek and ebay but I have no idea how to figure out the trading power of any given resort.  If you guys were starting up your portfolios again and needed to stock an inexpensive independent trader, what would be the max price you would consider and the max MF, and what brands or names would you be looking for?  Thanks for any tips!



For years, we owned two fixed 1-bedroom unit weeks in August at Panorama Resort in BC.  When it came to trading in RCI, these two units were pure gold!  An RCI rep once explained to me that any July/August weeks in Canada are in huge demand and therefore awesome traders.  These two units pulled exactly what my 4th of July California beach week used to pull, but the maintenance fee was significantly less than my CA week.  We sold these weeks a couple of years ago, so I have no idea what the MFs are now; however I suspect that they are still reasonable.  If you are interested in finding out more, contact the Panorama HOA.  They used to keep a list of all units that owners wanted to sell (that's how I sold ours).  If I recall correctly, we purchased these units at about $4K each and sold them for roughly the same amount.  Again, not sure what the going rate is now.


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## hellolani (Mar 16, 2011)

*What a great tip!*

Catlovers thanks for that, you are wonderful.


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## John Cummings (Mar 16, 2011)

CatLovers said:


> For years, we owned two fixed 1-bedroom unit weeks in August at Panorama Resort in BC.  When it came to trading in RCI, these two units were pure gold!  An RCI rep once explained to me that any July/August weeks in Canada are in huge demand and therefore awesome traders.  These two units pulled exactly what my 4th of July California beach week used to pull, but the maintenance fee was significantly less than my CA week.  We sold these weeks a couple of years ago, so I have no idea what the MFs are now; however I suspect that they are still reasonable.  If you are interested in finding out more, contact the Panorama HOA.  They used to keep a list of all units that owners wanted to sell (that's how I sold ours).  If I recall correctly, we purchased these units at about $4K each and sold them for roughly the same amount.  Again, not sure what the going rate is now.



I have never stayed at Panorama but have visited the resort. I lived in Windermere many years ago and went back to visit it a few years ago.


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## John Cummings (Mar 16, 2011)

hellolani said:


> This thread is a goldmine of info for people trying to figure out what to buy!  I love going to Mexico but am hesitant to buy there now with so much advice to trade instead.  Based on the info in here, I'd love to find a good trader with an independent resort (if possible) that has low MF (I'm sure that would have gone without saying) in Canada or Washington as I live in Vancouver on resale.  I guess my question would be, since I am highly inexperienced, any names of resorts that you guys would recommend?  I've been hanging out on redweek and ebay but I have no idea how to figure out the trading power of any given resort.  If you guys were starting up your portfolios again and needed to stock an inexpensive independent trader, what would be the max price you would consider and the max MF, and what brands or names would you be looking for?  Thanks for any tips!



We own at a Coastal California resort with reasonable maintenance fees. We can exchange anywhere we want with it. We have exchanged into the Grand Mayans several times, Royal Mayan, and other Mexican resorts. We have also exchanged into New York City and many other tough trades.


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## rpennisi (Mar 16, 2011)

pgnewarkboy said:


> ... Venturing off resort becomes riskier.  I was advised that over 15 years ago on my first trip to Cancun.  We were specifically warned about renting a car and driving to one of the ruins ourselves.  Particularly if we did not make it back before dark.  We took a tour with a group instead of going by ourselves.  That was 15 years ago and things have gotten worse.


We have been going to Mexico since 2002, with no problems.  We have rented cars many times, with no problems.  We took our rented car to all the ruins, returned after dark, with no problems.  We always venture offsite, with no problems.  The past few years, we have gone for 5 weeks each year in January and February, with no problems.  We have also tried Florida, Las Vegas and California in the winter, problems...too cold


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## MuranoJo (Mar 16, 2011)

rpennisi said:


> The past few years, we have gone for 5 weeks each year in January and February, with no problems.



I'm so jealous...stop it, you're killing me.  Some day.  *Sigh*


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## easyrider (Mar 17, 2011)

hellolani said:


> This thread is a goldmine of info for people trying to figure out what to buy!  I love going to Mexico but am hesitant to buy there now with so much advice to trade instead.  Based on the info in here, I'd love to find a good trader with an independent resort (if possible) that has low MF (I'm sure that would have gone without saying) in Canada or Washington as I live in Vancouver on resale.  I guess my question would be, since I am highly inexperienced, any names of resorts that you guys would recommend?  I've been hanging out on redweek and ebay but I have no idea how to figure out the trading power of any given resort.  If you guys were starting up your portfolios again and needed to stock an inexpensive independent trader, what would be the max price you would consider and the max MF, and what brands or names would you be looking for?  Thanks for any tips!



We live in Washington so we bought Worldmark because so many of the resorts are driving distance for us. Worldmark is also a very good trader with many nice resorts. We bought our 3 memberships off ebay.
https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/


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## pammex (Mar 17, 2011)

rpennisi said:


> We have been going to Mexico since 2002, with no problems.  We have rented cars many times, with no problems.  We took our rented car to all the ruins, returned after dark, with no problems.  We always venture offsite, with no problems.  The past few years, we have gone for 5 weeks each year in January and February, with no problems.  We have also tried Florida, Las Vegas and California in the winter, problems...too cold


 
 From sunny Mexico.  I have been living here since 1998, and yes there are problems like anywhere.  Much of the big "reads" now involve border cities/states, quite far from many resort towns esp. Puerto Vallarta.  I drive there on a 6 hour drive thru Mexico without incident many times a year.  The issue with driving after dark is not in reference to peril from others but more in the issue of loose animals, horse, donkeys, cows, dogs etc, poorly lit roads, sometimes poorly maintained roads, topes ( speed bumps), cars without lights.  Thus it has always been do not drive at night in Mexico. I travel 12 weeks per year to resorts in Mexico, all by car and all without incident.  I travel many times a month to a very large city in Mexico again without incident an amazingly I have raised two kids here, one still here and going to flight school in Guad.  and not an incident yet. This is not to say they do not occur as they do but on the whole the resort areas are safe, use common sense and usually just fine and dandy.  I can and do recommend Puerto Vallarta as a safe tranquil beautiful resort area.   No one in media writes articles about good things only shocking!  Just a thought to ponder.  The weather well sunny almost every day of the year, so...........


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## Jane (Apr 9, 2011)

*Owning in Mexica*

We are from Canada.When we go away from our cold winters we want heat.We initally bought in Florida. We were told to buy where we wanted to go every year or every other year. We were told not to buy in Mexico.  We traded our 2 bedroom and went to Puerta Vallarta. We were not very excited about going. That was in 2008. My husband had heard all the stories about Mexico. I had been in Mexico and had no desire to go back. Well were we wrong. We fell in love with the resort, the people,the buses and the countryside. Well we bought there. Much prefer the right to use verses the deed. We did alot of research on the resort and talked to alot of owners at the resort. We then went to a presentation. And we bought. Yes I know we should have done the resale. But last year we did and bought a 2 bedroom. I guess it is not for everyone. We do not have a great desire to go to the States from Canada in the winter, because it is not as warm as we want. Puerta Vallarta is easy to get to. The weather is beautiful and consistant. No matter where we go we have to fly so need to find a place with easy access. We have done alot of cruising and have looked at different places. We own at VDP Flamingos and have a variety of places to go. My suggestion to any one thinking about purchasing. Go and stay there first. Check things out the resorts etc. Talk to the owners. Check out the staff and the resorts. Don't buy right away there will always be more times to buy. Know what the resort offers. We were fortunate with the guy that sold us our membership. We got exactly what we wanted.


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## mikenk (Apr 9, 2011)

Jane, Well thought out post. 

My wife and I have also learned to really enjoy Mexico; the resorts can be spectacular, the people are warm and gracious, the culture is interesting, the weather is great, the restaurants are excellent, and about the same time zone. 

PV is our favorite; we leave for there tomorrow. Will be on the Malecon tomorrow night.

Mike


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## kenie (Apr 9, 2011)

Our neighbours are a retired couple who rent an apartment by the year in Acapulco or Puerto Vallarta(I forget which one).
I think they told me it's 3k for the year.They head down in October and come back in April/May.

kenie


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## ilene13 (Apr 9, 2011)

pammex said:


> From sunny Mexico.  I have been living here since 1998, and yes there are problems like anywhere.  Much of the big "reads" now involve border cities/states, quite far from many resort towns esp. Puerto Vallarta.  I drive there on a 6 hour drive thru Mexico without incident many times a year.  The issue with driving after dark is not in reference to peril from others but more in the issue of loose animals, horse, donkeys, cows, dogs etc, poorly lit roads, sometimes poorly maintained roads, topes ( speed bumps), cars without lights.  Thus it has always been do not drive at night in Mexico. I travel 12 weeks per year to resorts in Mexico, all by car and all without incident.  I travel many times a month to a very large city in Mexico again without incident an amazingly I have raised two kids here, one still here and going to flight school in Guad.  and not an incident yet. This is not to say they do not occur as they do but on the whole the resort areas are safe, use common sense and usually just fine and dandy.  I can and do recommend Puerto Vallarta as a safe tranquil beautiful resort area.   No one in media writes articles about good things only shocking!  Just a thought to ponder.  The weather well sunny almost every day of the year, so...........





How is it in Lake Chapala.  My husband went to medical school in Guadalajara, so we lived there in the early 1970's.  We loved it--we now own 3 weeks of time shares in Cancun and Playa del Carmen.  I have always loved Mexico and one of these days we'll come back to see the old Guad--I've heard it's changed a lot!!!


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