# Extreme Newbie needs guidance



## Heckhelm (Jul 5, 2011)

My wife and I decided we want to purchase a timeshare. I found this board last night and read timeshare 101. I feel a little lost so any advice is very appreciated. I've sat through 2 timeshare spiels (bluegreen and wyndham) and got my $75 gift cards. I liked the idea of a points system because of the flexibilty and the option of using the less costly weekdays but I don't know if that's the best thing to buy after reading further about it. I will just keep reading all the newbie stuff and try to get up to speed on the lingo around here. Thanks. 

-Adam


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## slip (Jul 5, 2011)

Keep reading and learning. When you have specific questions start a new post.
My advise is to join TUG if your serious about buying a timeshare.
Best $15 you'll spend.


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## YeongWoo (Jul 6, 2011)

*Take your time and rent first*

You won't miss any deals out there if you wait a while to buy.  While it's easy to get a good deal on buying a TS these days; they are next to impossible to get rid of.  I do like Wyndham because of the points setup but that's not the most important thing.  I think most here agree that you should buy where you wouldn't mind going if you couldn't exchange.  You should also buy based on the ongoing maintenance fees, not the upfront price.  

BTW, Wyndham's point's system is somewhat skewed against shorter stays unless you have unlimited house keeping credits.  The BG system seems to work better in that respect.  Overall I think that Wyndham is the best deal going.  Wyndham has plenty of locations here in the Southeast so you won't have any trouble finding a resort within a reasonable distance.


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## Heckhelm (Jul 6, 2011)

Jeff,

Thanks for your reply. I will keep reading and reading. It seems as though Wyndham is pretty popular around here with their points system, large internal resort system, point value, and lowish MF. Reading.....


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## Heckhelm (Jul 6, 2011)

YeongWoo said:


> You won't miss any deals out there if you wait a while to buy.  While it's easy to get a good deal on buying a TS these days; they are next to impossible to get rid of.  I do like Wyndham because of the points setup but that's not the most important thing.  I think most here agree that you should buy where you wouldn't mind going if you couldn't exchange.  You should also buy based on the ongoing maintenance fees, not the upfront price.
> 
> BTW, Wyndham's point's system is somewhat skewed against shorter stays unless you have unlimited house keeping credits.  The BG system seems to work better in that respect.  Overall I think that Wyndham is the best deal going.  Wyndham has plenty of locations here in the Southeast so you won't have any trouble finding a resort within a reasonable distance.




We are definately in no hurry. I have a lot of time to learn which seems to be a good thing. We are actually on vacation now in PCB, FL and noticed the Wyndham here. It looks really nice. I will see if I can find a listing of all their resorts and look them over. House keeping credits.....hmm, that's a new one. Reading.....

Thanks!


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## Heckhelm (Jul 6, 2011)

Just found a lady trying to get rid of 300,000+ Wyndham points for free. She had 3 different deeds and wanted someone to pay closing costs (~$1200-$1800) and MF of $135/month. 

[We have three deeded properties with Wyndham for a total of 308,000 points. Broken down they are 49,000 points at Wyndham Branson Meadows, 105,000 points at Wyndham Nashville, and 154,000 points at Wyndham Orlando at Bonnet Creek. They are annual points with the annual allotment given each January 1. The total maintenance fees are $ 135.95 per month. These points can be used at any time during the year and can be exchanged through RCI. All maintenance fees are current and all loans are paid off.

We want to transfer ownership to someone who wants all three deeds. They are going as a package deal. The new owner will pay all costs associated with closing and the transfer fees with Wyndham. ]

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150233


I don't understand how people will just give their TS away. I've read about $1 eBay auctions as well. Is this basically what I would be looking to buy? Or better yet if seller pays all closing costs? How much better deal could I expect? This comes out to $5.30 per 1000 points for MF which pretty close to what is advised. And all properties within driving distance and somewhere we would enjoy and use. Good hypothetical deal for me?


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## DaveNV (Jul 6, 2011)

Heckhelm said:


> I don't understand how people will just give their TS away.



There are a couple of scenarios:

1. People buy a timeshare, and may use it for awhile, then something changes:  Someone loses a job, someone gets sick, and sometimes, someone dies.  Suddenly the timeshare is an albatross for the person who owns it.  Maintenance fees continue to go up, and must be paid regardless of whether the timeshare gets used.  The owner tries to sell it for the big bucks they likely paid from the Developer, only to discover there IS no resale market for most timeshares.  The fees go on, the person gets even more disillusioned, and they may even pay a timeshare reseller outfit (sometimes known as a Postcard Company or PCC) several thousand dollars to take it off their hands.  But the timeshare doesn't sell, and next time the maintenance fees are due, the poor owner is stuck paying them - again.  So at that point they're ready to walk away, no matter what they spent to buy the place.  So they give it away, and wash their hands of the whole thing.

2.  The person bought it resale on ebay or similar, and only spent a dollar or two to get it.  They may even have gotten it for free, and the seller may even have paid closing costs for the buyer (see #1 above.)  The new owner uses it for awhile, decides it's not what they want (or some of #1 above happens to them), and they decide it's time to pass it along to a new owner.  So they list it for the same sort of money they paid to get it - which is basically nothing.  All they want is to give it away.  Which is the same motivation for the seller in scenario #1.

Happens all the time.

Dave


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## ronparise (Jul 6, 2011)

regarding the 308000 points

If you watch ebay for a while before you buy, (and you should) you will see that with few exceptions the larger, low mf contracts go for more than a dollar, plus closing costs of about $700 contract. Smaller, high mf contracts go for less, or not at all. 

The deal you have been presented with is a medium number of points (not too big and not too small) a good average mf (not great, but no one would call it high either) at a very fair price....If there are any unused 2011 points that would be a bonus.  The only issue to talk about is the $299/contract transfer cost that Wyndham now charges. But this deal meets my test...Can I get in for a years mf or less?  

You might do better if you watch and wait, ie find a single 300000 point contract with lower mf for under $500 plus closing, but I wouldnt bet on it. There is a contract on ebay now #150625282599  with 327000 points $127. month mf and seller paid closing and transfer. The bidding is already over $1000 and there are 8 hours to go....watch it, I bet it goes for $1500+

Having said all this...do your homework firtst...There will be something as good or better come along when you are ready, But if you are ready now...why wait?

Here is a link to the Wyndham directory with all the points charts, and a discussion of housekeeping, guest certs etc (all the small print)


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## slip (Jul 6, 2011)

You can always try to negotiate with that seller. They may pickup some of the
closing if you ask. If there are some 2011 points left, it may be a good place 
to start.


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## Patri (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't do points, but I would think a contract with three different deeds would be confusing. And eventually you would be the one trying to get rid of it.


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## Heckhelm (Jul 6, 2011)

Ok I've been on here for 8 straight hours and I understand everything.........haha yeah right. 

Thanks for all your replies. I see what you mean about one large point package being better. Three in one deal sounds confusing and expensive with all the seperate closing costs. 

Wyndham seems like the best route for us. They have plenty of resorts in the Southeast that we can drive to and I like the points system. What is the main reason that it is advised to have my points at a resort that I can drive to? Is it because I can book 13 months out instead of 10 and if I can't transfer then I can always have the security having my guaranteed week? 

I haven't looked on ebay yet but will. Looking through the bargain deals there are lots of free ones. It just seems hard for me to want to pay for one when there are so many free ones to be had.


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## YeongWoo (Jul 6, 2011)

*Just because it's free...*

doesn't make it a good deal.  It sounds like you are settling on Wyndham and there are a lot of great Wyndham deals out there.  I think you have to focus on both the ARP and lowest MF criteria.  Yes, you get a longer booking window at your home resort.  For example, I have ARP at any of the resorts in Myrtle Beach since I own there.  It comes in handy for summer booking.  I do however pay higher MF.  

Many will tell you that you can book about anywhere at the 10 month mark and I generally agree.  There are several threads around about which locations have the lowest MF.  I think Gatlinburg is one of those locations.  Even if you don't go to the Gatlinburg resort you still have the points to use anywhere in the system.

Either way you'd be justified in paying more to get the location that you have researched and want.  The free ones are the ones that nobody wants...


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## theo (Jul 6, 2011)

*A thought...*



Heckhelm said:


> Just found a lady trying to get rid of 300,000+ Wyndham points for free. She had 3 different deeds and wanted someone to pay closing costs (~$1200-$1800) and MF of $135/month.
> 
> [We want to transfer ownership to someone who wants all three deeds. They are going as a package deal. The new owner will pay all costs associated with closing and the transfer fees with Wyndham. ]



Fyi, Wyndham has recently adopted a new practice of imposing a transfer fee of $299 just to "process" ownership changes. If this ownership involves 3 different deeds, it would not surprise me if Wyndham would then want three different $299 transfer fees. Maybe the seller has already acknowledged and included these new costs in the estimate of closing costs, but I would strongly recommend finding that out *for certain*.


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## ronparise (Jul 6, 2011)

Heckhelm said:


> Ok I've been on here for 8 straight hours and I understand everything.........haha yeah right.
> 
> Thanks for all your replies. I see what you mean about one large point package being better. Three in one deal sounds confusing and expensive with all the seperate closing costs.
> 
> ...



Three contracts in one account is not a problem for me. All three have the same use year, so that helps. but even with seperate use years I dont see that it would be a big deal.. I see points as points; they are the currency I use to buy reservations.  Whats the difference in having 1 one hundred dollar bill or 5 twenties?  If I buy something that costs $90 Ill get a ten in change (or two fives) either way

Wyndham will charge the $299 transfer fee per deed


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## slip (Jul 6, 2011)

Not all free units are worthless or something no one wants. The thought of
having something in driving distance is that it makes it cheaper to use. 
That's not going to help if you don't like going there. Buy where you would like
to go so you can use the 13 month window and when you want to go 
somewhere else you can either stay in the system and exchange or join an
exchange company.

A lot of these systems are complicated but if your just going to go to the same
place all the time or do an exchange once in awhile, don't over complicate it.


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## Heckhelm (Jul 7, 2011)

YeongWoo said:


> doesn't make it a good deal.  It sounds like you are settling on Wyndham and there are a lot of great Wyndham deals out there.  I think you have to focus on both the ARP and lowest MF criteria.  Yes, you get a longer booking window at your home resort.  For example, I have ARP at any of the resorts in Myrtle Beach since I own there.  It comes in handy for summer booking.  I do however pay higher MF.
> 
> Many will tell you that you can book about anywhere at the 10 month mark and I generally agree.  There are several threads around about which locations have the lowest MF.  I think Gatlinburg is one of those locations.  Even if you don't go to the Gatlinburg resort you still have the points to use anywhere in the system.
> 
> Either way you'd be justified in paying more to get the location that you have researched and want.  The free ones are the ones that nobody wants...



What is ARP?


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## Heckhelm (Jul 7, 2011)

theo said:


> Fyi, Wyndham has recently adopted a new practice of imposing a transfer fee of $299 just to "process" ownership changes. If this ownership involves 3 different deeds, it would not surprise me if Wyndham would then want three different $299 transfer fees. Maybe the seller has already acknowledged and included these new costs in the estimate of closing costs, but I would strongly recommend finding that out *for certain*.




Ok, I'll check on that if I do decide to go with Wyndham. Thanks.


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## Heckhelm (Jul 7, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Three contracts in one account is not a problem for me. All three have the same use year, so that helps. but even with seperate use years I dont see that it would be a big deal.. I see points as points; they are the currency I use to buy reservations.  Whats the difference in having 1 one hundred dollar bill or 5 twenties?  If I buy something that costs $90 Ill get a ten in change (or two fives) either way
> 
> Wyndham will charge the $299 transfer fee per deed



Yes that's the way I'm understanding it, points are points. The only difference is the 13 .vs 10 month booking and the MF differences. 

Ok, well I guess it would be better if I could find a large point package and pay $299 once instead of 3 times.


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## Heckhelm (Jul 7, 2011)

slip said:


> Not all free units are worthless or something no one wants. The thought of
> having something in driving distance is that it makes it cheaper to use.
> That's not going to help if you don't like going there. Buy where you would like
> to go so you can use the 13 month window and when you want to go
> ...



There is so MUCH info here I pretty much decided to stick with one (Wyndham) and learn all I can about it. They have plenty of places in the Southeast and enough other places as well if we wanted to travel farther.


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## SunSandGirl (Jul 7, 2011)

Heckhelm said:


> My wife and I decided we want to purchase a timeshare. I found this board last night and read timeshare 101. I feel a little lost so any advice is very appreciated. I've sat through 2 timeshare spiels (bluegreen and wyndham) and got my $75 gift cards. I liked the idea of a points system because of the flexibilty and the option of using the less costly weekdays but I don't know if that's the best thing to buy after reading further about it. I will just keep reading all the newbie stuff and try to get up to speed on the lingo around here. Thanks.
> 
> -Adam



We have been Wyndham points owners for about 10 years and I really like not being locked into a set week at a set resort and being able to use our points at any of the Wyndham resorts without having to pay an exchange fee.  We have only used our exchange company once and we weren't thrilled with the exchange that we got.  We have 3, soon to be 4 different contracts and 3 of them are every other year contracts (EOY).  It is not difficult to have seperate contracts.  I use the online page and they have it broken down nicely and easy to understand.  
I have seen her listing and I do believe she has the fee listed correctly with the $299 per contract.  I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere that if they are all done at one time you get a price break.


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## pkyorkbeach (Jul 7, 2011)

Lots of info on the site...keep reading and learning


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## mjhines (Jul 10, 2011)

*Information gathering*

My wife and I have been Wyndham owners for a decade and have been pleased in general despite the changes in timesharing in general that are unfortunate but can be dealt with if you take the time to discover what's what, as you seem to be doing. I second the advice you've received so far and, since you seem to be leaning toward Wyndham, I want to encourage you to check out a rather lengthy piece containing info about Wyndham you won't find in the Directory (not even the small print.) This is a glimpse into what timesharing looks like "at the top": big business. It is a 52 page PDF file offered on the Wyndham Worldwide website (corporate stuff) but presents some statistics that will serve you well as background when doing your more practical reading (i.e. the details you will need personally.) Like income taxes, many owners pay more because they lack the background to be curious. In fact, if you are really trending to Wyndham you might really enjoy poking around the corporate site 
for additional stuff. I just wish this sort of info had been available years ago. 
The link:  
http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/docs/05-11-2011-Wyndham-Timeshare-Presentation.pdf 
By the way, you can't tell from the link but this is a presentation by J.P.Morgan  Co about the Wyndham operations. Among the pages you might pay attention to are statements that indicate that the system works by promoting (very actively) upgrades by current owners. The offer you are considering is likely to be enough to allow you to ignore the sales pinch. 
Best of luck.
Mike


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## Heckhelm (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm a member! I feel so  now.


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## Heckhelm (Jul 12, 2011)

mjhines said:


> My wife and I have been Wyndham owners for a decade and have been pleased in general despite the changes in timesharing in general that are unfortunate but can be dealt with if you take the time to discover what's what, as you seem to be doing. I second the advice you've received so far and, since you seem to be leaning toward Wyndham, I want to encourage you to check out a rather lengthy piece containing info about Wyndham you won't find in the Directory (not even the small print.) This is a glimpse into what timesharing looks like "at the top": big business. It is a 52 page PDF file offered on the Wyndham Worldwide website (corporate stuff) but presents some statistics that will serve you well as background when doing your more practical reading (i.e. the details you will need personally.) Like income taxes, many owners pay more because they lack the background to be curious. In fact, if you are really trending to Wyndham you might really enjoy poking around the corporate site
> for additional stuff. I just wish this sort of info had been available years ago.
> The link:
> http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/docs/05-11-2011-Wyndham-Timeshare-Presentation.pdf
> ...




I have one word to describe that, freaking wow! I'll definitely have to read that again after I get up to speed on some more lingo but that's very interesting. Let's us see how the big boys think of us little peons. Thanks for that Mike.


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## helh389 (Jul 18, 2011)

*Wyndham experience*

We found from Wyndham ownership, that whatever you own, it is not the correct product and an upgrade is needed.  We walked out of more than one office review because we didn't want/need any more points.


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## loafingcactus (Jul 21, 2011)

That PDF of PowerPoint slides was VERY interesting to read, even as a Hilton owner.  Thanks for the link.


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