# More devaluation in Worldmark by Wyndham



## Mongoose (May 26, 2021)

FAX Time and Elite Rental Policy Updates — WorldMark by Wyndham (wyndhamdestinations.com)


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## samara64 (May 26, 2021)

Why do you see it as devaluation.


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## Mongoose (May 26, 2021)

Its up to a 30% increase in fees.


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## bizaro86 (May 26, 2021)

Hopefully they phase in the new rules. I have more than 3 Fax time reservations on the books right now, and would be pretty disappointed if some get cancelled.


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## samara64 (May 26, 2021)

So elite rentals will be fax time. Never used any of them. So fax time was 10 cent for white/blue season. For red season, it was 10 cent every 5 years else 15 cent. So repeated red season went down and white/blue season went up.

Just want to confirm my info. Nothing more.


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## bizaro86 (May 26, 2021)

samara64 said:


> So elite rentals will be fax time. Never used any of them. So fax time was 10 cent for white/blue season. For red season, it was 10 cent every 5 years else 15 cent. So repeated red season went down and white/blue season went up.
> 
> Just want to confirm my info. Nothing more.



Correct. With new limits of 3 fax reservations at a time and only 90 days out for holidays/peak periods (yet to be defined).


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## Tacoma (May 26, 2021)

I have found in the past that fax time in blue/white seasn for only a few days could be cheaper than points and HK fees. I suspect that will no longer be the case. One time the fax price in red really saved me $. I had matched for a 3 bedroom Grand Luxxe and did not have enough points. One phone call and they took the points at the 10 cent rate which saved me a lot. I will miss the feature. It seems to me they are trying to make it cheaper to use a hotel than stay at the resorts for less than 4 or so days.


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## CO skier (May 27, 2021)

Tacoma said:


> It seems to me they are trying to make it cheaper to use a hotel than stay at the resorts for less than 4 or so days.


There are still plenty of White/Blue season bargains out there at the new rate.  Prime time to view the changing aspen in the fall is White season at WM Steamboat Springs.  Staying 5 nights, Sunday to Friday, is 3400 credits, $442 or $88/night plus tax at the new rate .  Would I have preferred to continue staying there for $68/night at the current rate of $0.10/credit?  Of course; does the increase in FAX time rate devalue my WorldMark membership?  For me, the answer is, "No," because a room with a full size refrigerator and stove (but no oven) at the Hilton Homewood Suites where I would otherwise stay runs $203/night plus tax for the same dates.

October can still have very good weather.  There is always so much availability in October that I can wait to check the 10-day forecast before booking some time at WM Steamboat.  Blue season (October) at WM Steamboat is 2200 credits for the five nights, at the new FAX rate $286 or $57/night.  The Hilton Homewood Suites runs $131 for a special members' rate at this time.

I have booked a lot of FAX credit reservations over the years, mostly in White and Blue seasons and will continue to do so.

I do not know why WM owners are always looking their gift horse in the mouth.


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## bizaro86 (May 27, 2021)

CO skier said:


> I do not know why WM owners are always looking their gift horse in the mouth.



I think when you paid upfront for something and then the deal changes for the worse you can expect people to be frustrated.

I do a lot of blue/white season weekends on fax at WM Canmore. This will probably make it cheaper to start using airbnb for that. For me at least this a 30% cost increase to something I used regularly - thats a significant devaluation.


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## CO skier (May 27, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> I think when you paid upfront for something and then the deal changes for the worse you can expect people to be frustrated.
> 
> I do a lot of blue/white season weekends on fax at WM Canmore. This will probably make it cheaper to start using airbnb for that. For me at least this a 30% cost increase to something I used regularly - thats a significant devaluation.


Included in what "you paid upfront for" is the FAX credit rental program -- a developer program that may be changed (including the rental rate) or eliminated at any time by the developer.

The deal did not change.  You must not have understood the deal.

If AirBnB is a better deal for you, no one is forced to use FAX credits.  It will be owners who think like you that will provide the availability for owners like me who will still find FAX reservations to be a bargain and definitely preferable to AirBnB, VRBO, and other "iffy" reservations that may be cancelled at the last minute by the landlord.


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## rhonda (May 27, 2021)

CO skier said:


> I do not know why WM owners are always looking their gift horse in the mouth.


There are so many ways I want to answer this!  For now, "A gift horse isn't free .... "


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## CO skier (May 27, 2021)

rhonda said:


> There are so many ways I want to answer this!  For now, "A gift horse isn't free .... "


The FAX policy is a "free add-on" to WorldMark.  It is not part of WorldMark the Club (any owner can look this up).  No owner "paid" for it.

Would you prefer that the develop eliminate the FAX credits policy altogether?


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## bizaro86 (May 27, 2021)

CO skier said:


> The FAX policy is a "free add-on" to WorldMark.  It is not part of WorldMark the Club (any owner can look this up).  No owner "paid" for it.
> 
> Would you prefer that the develop eliminate the FAX credits policy altogether?



You're right. The fax program was formerly part of Worldmark the Club, until the developer took it over subsequent to its creation. Now the developer owns the program, and they can do as they like with it. 

If you want to boil a frog, you turn up the heat in the water slowly. 

And really all of that is immaterial. There was something that used to cost one amount, and now it costs 30% more. It takes some pretty heavy word play for that not to be a price increase.


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## rhonda (May 27, 2021)

CO skier said:


> The FAX policy is a "free add-on" to WorldMark.  It is not part of WorldMark the Club (any owner can look this up).  No owner "paid" for it.
> 
> Would you prefer that the develop eliminate the FAX credits policy altogether?


Sorry.  My reply was as a horsewomen and was intended as literal not about WM.  It was intended as humor ... dry, perhaps, but I figured looking at my avatar would help create context.

The English language idioms regarding horses seem wildly misplaced ....


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## CO skier (May 27, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> You're right. The fax program was formerly part of Worldmark the Club, until the developer took it over subsequent to its creation. Now the developer owns the program, and they can do as they like with it.
> 
> If you want to boil a frog, you turn up the heat in the water slowly.
> 
> And really all of that is immaterial. There was something that used to cost one amount, and now it costs 30% more. It takes some pretty heavy word play for that not to be a price increase.


How cliché.

If the water is getting too hot for you, Jump Out!

Bonus Time is listed in the governing documents, but FAX credits are not.  Why do you think the FAX program was ever a part of WorldMark, and if it was, how could the developer "take it over?"

You must have missed the 20% increase a few years ago, when FAX credits went from $0.08/credit to $0.10/credit.

You must have noticed the yearly increases in maintenance fees.  Why would FAX credits costs not increase like maintenance fees?  Would you prefer annual FAX rate increases every year like maintenance fees instead of the large catch-up increases?


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## bizaro86 (May 27, 2021)

CO skier said:


> How cliché.
> 
> If the water is getting too hot for you, Jump Out!
> 
> ...



If the fax cost was going up in a reasonable and measured way (like MF, bonus time, IS, etc) I wouldn't be complaining.

But it was 8 cents ~2 years ago, and now its 13 cents. Thats more than a 60% increase in a pretty short time.

I'm not saying they can't do that (I'm sure their lawyers have it covered), just that it makes a worldmark ownership marginally less valuable. 

They took one of the features and made it 30% more costly - that isn't a pro its a con.


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## CO skier (May 27, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> But it was 8 cents ~2 years ago, and now its 13 cents. Thats more than a 60% increase in a pretty short time.


True for someone who bought in 2016 or 2017.

The maintenance fees were $463 in 2010 when I purchased; today the mf is $771 on that account -- a 67% increase over 11 years.

The FAX rate was $0.08/credit in 2010 (and long before that).  At $0.13/credit in 2021 for FAX credits, that is a 63% increase over 11 years (much less of a percentage for someone who purchased in the early 2000s).

For me, larger percentage increases later on left some coins in my pocket versus smaller annual increases to FAX credits.


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## bizaro86 (May 27, 2021)

CO skier said:


> True for someone who bought in 2016 or 2017.
> 
> The maintenance fees were $463 in 2010 when I purchased; today the mf is $771 on that account -- a 67% increase over 11 years.
> 
> ...



Fair point. I first bought WM in 2016. So for me the increase in Fax costs has been 63% over 5 years, whereas MF increases would be up around half that percentage. 

That's two pretty big increases in a short period of time, so it'll be interesting to see if this is a new trend or if they level out now.


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## CO skier (May 27, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> That's two pretty big increases in a short period of time, so it'll be interesting to see if this is a new trend or if they level out now.


For exactly the points raised in this thread, I would expect FAX credit increases to align with annual mf and bonus time/Monday Madness increases.  Not in 2022, because of this latest 30% increase, but in January, 2023 when FAX credits would move to $0.14/credit, then 4-5% annual increases after that.  If I am wrong, and FAX credit rates lurch ahead every 5, 8 or 10 years but in-line with mf increases, then that would be a bonus for long and short term owners who use FAX credits.

What will be interesting to see is if owners who turn-in credits for Personal Choice and other programs that supply the credits for FAX, will receive more than $0.045 for the credits.  Wyndham will know Exactly the supply/demand balance.  Wyndham will see Exactly what this latest 30% increase in cost will do to demand and can balance the supply/demand from there with FAX credit pricing.


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## Mongoose (May 27, 2021)

CO skier said:


> How cliché.
> 
> If the water is getting too hot for you, Jump Out!
> 
> ...


What's with the attitude?  BTW, an increase from $.08 to $.10 is a 25% increase.    A decrease from $.10 to $.08 would be a 20% decrease.  I believe FAX was a creation of Trendwest and predates Wyndham.


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## Mongoose (May 27, 2021)

samara64 said:


> So elite rentals will be fax time. Never used any of them. So fax time was 10 cent for white/blue season. For red season, it was 10 cent every 5 years else 15 cent. So repeated red season went down and white/blue season went up.
> 
> Just want to confirm my info. Nothing more.


Great point.  I missed that.  Where did you see those details?


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## CO skier (May 28, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> What's with the attitude?  BTW, an increase from $.08 to $.10 is a 25% increase.    A decrease from $.10 to $.08 would be a 20% decrease.  I believe FAX was a creation of Trendwest and predates Wyndham.


Attitude?  I am not the one who thinks my WorldMark membership has been "devalued" or making obscure references to boiling frogs.  I thought some salient analysis might add to the discussion, instead of ... 

I accept the correction to my percentage, but the point and the 11-year analysis remain the same.

Trendwest was the developer before Cendant then Wyndham or Wyndham Destinations or whatever it is now.  The FAX policy has always been a developer program and never a part of WorldMark the Club.  Trendwest could have modified it or eliminated it at any time, just like Wyndham can now.


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## samara64 (May 28, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> Great point.  I missed that.  Where did you see those details?




That is what fax time used to be. Elite rentals was a benefit of travelshare that I never used.


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## easyrider (May 28, 2021)

Better get use to higher prices. The way most product prices and labor prices have increased recently, it won't be long until mf's follow. 

Bill


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## CO skier (May 28, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> Great point.  I missed that.  Where did you see those details?


3 Red Season FAX time reservations at a time for $0.13/credit sure beats once every 5 years for $0.10/credit and $0.15/credit after the first one, at least for me.

"Elite Rentals"

TravelShareFunTimeBrochure.pdf (worldmarktheclub.com)

Current Elite Credit Rental
• Silver Elite $0.15/Credit
• Diamond Elite $0.13/Credit
• Platinum Elite $0.11/Credit 


On June 9th:
• TravelShare: 12 cents ($0.12) per credit
• Silver Elite: 11 cents ($0.11) per credit
• Diamond Elite: 10 cents ($0.10) per credit
• Platinum Elite: 9 cents ($0.09) per credit


Current "FAX Policy"  (Online Reference Library > Poilicies)

Red Season: One FAX Time use every 5 years at $.10 per credit is allowed. One use is defined as one or more units at the same resort during the same time. Additional reservations in red season within 5 years will be charged at $.15 per credit.
Blue and White Season: Unlimited FAX Time use at $.10 per credit.

On June 9th:

Premier and WM + Affiliates  3 Active FAX Time limit
TravelShare: 4 Active FAX Time limit
Silver Elite: 5 Active FAX Time limit
Diamond Elite: 6 Active FAX Time limit
Platinum Elite: 7 Active FAX Time limit


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## exyeh (May 30, 2021)

"Correct. With new limits of 3 fax reservations at a time and only 90 days out for holidays/peak periods (yet to be defined)."

So one account is only limited to 3 fax reservations, no matter red, blue or white season?
Is this new thing effect on 6/9/2021? If so, why worldmark has not email everyone about this? It is only 9 days left for us to prepare this new "guideline"!
Or we always find out new rules by ourselves?
If someone knows the answer, please help! I am in a situation that cause by pandemic, I usually don't have so many problems and prepared reservations.


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## samara64 (May 30, 2021)

It is listed on the front page of the website. Here is a link:









						FAX Time and Elite Rental Policy Updates
					

WorldMark by Wyndham is making policy updates to FAX Time and Elite Rental programs to help maximize resort availability. Learn more.




					worldmark.wyndhamdestinations.com


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## CO skier (May 31, 2021)

bizaro86 said:


> Hopefully they phase in the new rules. I have more than 3 Fax time reservations on the books right now, and would be pretty disappointed if some get cancelled.


It will probably be like past changes where existing reservations are grandfathered in so that no one loses a planned vacation.  As with prior changes, June 9th will "lock-in" the dates for the existing FAX reservations; if you tried to add or delete days to a grandfathered reservation, the new rule would apply, and if more than 3 FAX reservations are booked in the account, the to-be-revised reservation could only be kept as-is or cancelled.  Since revising the dates of an existing reservation requires a phone call, it is simply a matter of training the reservation agents to the new rule to enforce the no changes to >3 grandfathered FAX reservations.

One thing that will need clarification in the June 9th introduction is if guest name changes will be allowed on >3 grandfathered FAX reservations.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 4, 2021)

rhonda said:


> Sorry.  My reply was as a horsewomen and was intended as literal not about WM.  It was intended as humor ... dry, perhaps, but I figured looking at my avatar would help create context.
> 
> The English language idioms regarding horses seem wildly misplaced ....


I got it!  It's true.


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## VacationForever (Jul 18, 2022)

deleted.  Found my answer.


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