# New cancelled points policy and the credit pool



## uscav8r (Aug 4, 2015)

This thread on Wyndham's new policy w.r.t. cancelled points being called regular use year points has gotten long and unwieldy:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230333

So I will ask a pointed question regarding the credit pool and cancelled-points-come-regular-use-points-without-a-contract using a specific scenario. Consider the following:

1) I have regular use year points for 2016 (Jan anniversary). I make a reservation for January 2016 during CY2015. 

2) I later decide to cancel that ressie. I get the points back as regular use year points, but
2a) I lose ARP and 
2b) they will expire at the end of 2016.

So, at some point by 12/31/2015 as a regular or VIP Silver member, would I be able to credit pool those refunded "regular" 2016 points?


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## am1 (Aug 4, 2015)

uscav8r said:


> This thread on Wyndham's new policy w.r.t. cancelled points being called regular use year points has gotten long and unwieldy:
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230333
> 
> ...



Yes that is the way it will work.


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## Designerd (Aug 5, 2015)

*understanding new rules*

Thanks as the last posting was getting very long.

I have a question.
- If you booked using 2015 point a 2015 reservation and you cancel the reservation in December - What happens?
- Do the points go back to 2015 regular points?
- If there is not much time left to use 2015 points, can you book a 2016 trip within a 90 day window and use the points?

*Only catch I think if I have still have available 2016 points in my account, it may pull these before it will use the redeposit points.

Thank you


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## Designerd (Aug 5, 2015)

*understanding new rules*

Thanks as the last posting was getting very long.

I have a question.
- If you booked using 2015 point a 2015 reservation and you cancel the reservation in December - What happens?
- Do the points go back to 2015 regular points?
- If there is not much time left to use 2015 points, can you book a 2016 trip within a 90 day window and use the points?

*Only catch I think if I have still have available 2016 points in my account, it may pull these before it will use the redeposit points.

Thank you


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## Ty1on (Aug 5, 2015)

uscav8r said:


> This thread on Wyndham's new policy w.r.t. cancelled points being called regular use year points has gotten long and unwieldy:
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230333
> 
> ...



The way I understand the member guide supplement, your points will be restored to 2016 Use Year points and be eligible for ARP as long as you are still in the ARP period.

You should be able to credit pool the points, because they were reverted to their original status as Use Year 2016 points.


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## Ty1on (Aug 5, 2015)

Designerd said:


> Thanks as the last posting was getting very long.
> 
> I have a question.
> - If you booked using 2015 point a 2015 reservation and you cancel the reservation in December - What happens?
> ...



I think If you cancel a 2015 reservation using 2015 Use Year points, they revert to 2015 Use Year points and will expire at the end of the year.  Just as if you had not reserved and cancelled, your only salvation at that point is an RCI deposit, hoping there are remaining bulk deposits for 2015.


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## Myxdvz (Aug 5, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> The way I understand the member guide supplement, your points will be restored to 2016 Use Year points and be eligible for ARP as long as you are still in the ARP period.
> 
> You should be able to credit pool the points, because they were reverted to their original status as Use Year 2016 points.



I made an ARP reservation (for 2016) yesterday and I asked the VC what happens to my points if I cancel the ARP reservation at PCB and switch to another resort, if I can use the same points.

She said, they become regular points so they CAN be credit pooled and/or deposited to RCI BUT they can't be used for ARP again.


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## Bigrob (Aug 5, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> The way I understand the member guide supplement, your points will be restored to 2016 Use Year points and be eligible for ARP as long as you are still in the ARP period.
> 
> You should be able to credit pool the points, because they were reverted to their original status as Use Year 2016 points.



I don't think they are still eligible for ARP at this point. They become regular use year points not associated to a contract, according to multiple sources at Wyndham.


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## Ty1on (Aug 5, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> I don't think they are still eligible for ARP at this point. They become regular use year points not associated to a contract, according to multiple sources at Wyndham.



From the supplement:

"The Regular Use Year Points expire on your Use Year End date, and may be used for all program features"


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## Bigrob (Aug 5, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> From the supplement:
> 
> "The Regular Use Year Points expire on your Use Year End date, and may be used for all program features"



ARP is a feature of either CWA or Club Wyndham Select, rather than Club Wyndham Plus Program per se. Every input (except the first, which proved to be wrong on a couple of facets) I have has indicated the points returned will not be associated to a contract and therefore will have no ARP rights.


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## Ty1on (Aug 5, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> ARP is a feature of either CWA or Club Wyndham Select, rather than Club Wyndham Plus Program per se. Every input (except the first, which proved to be wrong on a couple of facets) I have has indicated the points returned will not be associated to a contract and therefore will have no ARP rights.



Club Wyndham Plus is the umbrella under which CWA and CWS reside.  They put it in writing.  As I know you know, the member's guide has governance in matters of confusion over rules.  The above is officially in the member's guide via supplement.


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## traveldaddy (Aug 6, 2015)

Isn't CWP the internal exchange program and therefore does not include ARP? With ARP associated with the deed/contract and not part of the exchange program?

Just trying to understand and bridge what has been told to folks with the program wording. 

Craig


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## Ty1on (Aug 6, 2015)

traveldaddy said:


> Isn't CWP the internal exchange program and therefore does not include ARP? With ARP associated with the deed/contract and not part of the exchange program?
> 
> Just trying to understand and bridge what has been told to folks with the program wording.
> 
> Craig



You may be thinking of Plus Partners.


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## Myxdvz (Aug 6, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> You may be thinking of Plus Partners.



Are you just saying the cancelled points can be used for ARP because of your interpretation of the text?  Or have you heard it from a VC?

Because the VCs I've talked to have told me I can't use cancelled points for ARP even though they are "regular" points now.


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## Ty1on (Aug 6, 2015)

Myxdvz said:


> Are you just saying the cancelled points can be used for ARP because of your interpretation of the text?  Or have you heard it from a VC?
> 
> Because the VCs I've talked to have told me I can't use cancelled points for ARP even though they are "regular" points now.



Strictly by the text.  I'm sure the VCs are on a learning curve as much as everyone else.

The text is non-ambiguous.  All program features.


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## traveldaddy (Aug 6, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> You may be thinking of Plus Partners.



Nope, what I mean is, you have an ARP privelege. You use/lose this privilege when:

1 - You make an ARP reservation
2 - You credit pool the points
3 - you neglect to/choose to go past the 10 month mark (and now effectively pool into the internal trading program)

So when you cancel any reservation, you have already either used your ARP privilege, or waived it by pooling into a different program. ARP can't be 'restored' - it is a use it or lose it item - very much like  fixed week. Not sure how ANY program could restore this - the weeks would not add up and someone would lose ARP - there are only 52 weeks in a given unit within a year - i.e. how can Wyn 'restore' ARP after the fact (week/timeline has passed) without taking it from someone else? Maybe I don't see how the math would add up (start the Engineer jokes...)

Again, just trying to square the conflicting info what I've been reading here - don't have a strong opinion on it and it doesn't really affect me that much. 

Would be interesting if I could roll forward points and get ARP on rolled forward points at MB though. Just don't see how it would make sense though. There could be enough diveristy in the demand that it might work, but high demand locations would have a problem.


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## Bigrob (Aug 6, 2015)

traveldaddy said:


> Nope, what I mean is, you have an ARP privelege. You use/lose this privilege when:
> 
> 1 - You make an ARP reservation
> 2 - You credit pool the points
> ...



I don't believe you'll be able to get ARP on points that have been tied up in a reservation and then cancelled and returned. But two VCs I have talked to have said the points will go back to being associated to the contract they came from. Technically speaking, that would mean someone could book an Easter/Spring break reservation, cancel and rebook it (with different points at the 10 month mark) and then re-use the ARP to book a Christmas week. 

There are more extreme models than this simple "twice-used" ARP model that make me think this has been considered and that the senior level person Ron P. talked to has it right. I don't think the regular points will get associated to a contract. But we'll see...


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## traveldaddy (Aug 6, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> I don't believe you'll be able to get ARP on points that have been tied up in a reservation and then cancelled and returned. But two VCs I have talked to have said the points will go back to being associated to the contract they came from. Technically speaking, that would mean someone could book an Easter/Spring break reservation, cancel and rebook it (with different points at the 10 month mark) and then re-use the ARP to book a Christmas week.
> 
> There are more extreme models than this simple "twice-used" ARP model that make me think this has been considered and that the senior level person Ron P. talked to has it right. I don't think the regular points will get associated to a contract. But we'll see...



Yes, also the comment that points can still be rolled forward with multiple use years after a cancelation could lead to some issues if the scale of this type of activity was large relative to the diversity of the demand within the program. 

I may not have the terms/language correct, but you did get what I was thinking and trying to say. 

It will be interesting to see how it actually works going forward. Just as interesting will be the incentives/reaction it drives from the big renters and the impact on the little people like myself.


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## jjmanthei05 (Aug 6, 2015)

Bigrob said:


> I don't believe you'll be able to get ARP on points that have been tied up in a reservation and then cancelled and returned. But two VCs I have talked to have said the points will go back to being associated to the contract they came from. Technically speaking, that would mean someone could book an Easter/Spring break reservation, cancel and rebook it (with different points at the 10 month mark) and then re-use the ARP to book a Christmas week.
> 
> There are more extreme models than this simple "twice-used" ARP model that make me think this has been considered and that the senior level person Ron P. talked to has it right. I don't think the regular points will get associated to a contract. But we'll see...



An extreme example would be using arp at the 10 1/2 month mark. Canceling the reseravation once inside the 10 month mark and pick it up with regular points and rebooking something at the 10 1/2 month mark again. So you could use the points for ARP every 2 weeks or so. 

I appologize if this has been asked but I haven't read through the tread because I don't have a week and a half. Does anyone know if the following scenerio still works? 

I borrow 2016 points into 2015, cancel the 2015 reservation. do they stay as 2015 or do they revert back to 2016? 

Jason


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## Ty1on (Aug 6, 2015)

jjmanthei05 said:


> An extreme example would be using arp at the 10 1/2 month mark. Canceling the reseravation once inside the 10 month mark and pick it up with regular points and rebooking something at the 10 1/2 month mark again. So you could use the points for ARP every 2 weeks or so.
> 
> I appologize if this has been asked but I haven't read through the tread because I don't have a week and a half. Does anyone know if the following scenerio still works?
> 
> ...



2016.  They return to their origin.


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## jjmanthei05 (Aug 6, 2015)

If I pool points book and cancel. Do they go back to being pooled? 

Jason


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## Ty1on (Aug 6, 2015)

jjmanthei05 said:


> If I pool points book and cancel. Do they go back to being pooled?
> 
> Jason



"According the the member guide supplement", they revert back to the credit pool with the expiration date they had when you deposited them.


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## NHTraveler (Aug 7, 2015)

So, it seems a lot of people use the credit pool.  

Has there ever been a time where you wanted to book something using your credit pool points and the points were not available?  

Is credit pooling more valuable to those folks that use it with the new no cancelled points rule...where the cancelled point become regular and put back in the credit pool without a fee?  

I have avoided the whole credit pool thing because I was afraid the pool would be empty when I decided to jump in (make a reservation).


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## bnoble (Aug 7, 2015)

I don't think the pool has run dry since the VIP deadlines were extended. At least, I can't remember a report of it.


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## ronparise (Aug 7, 2015)

I credit pool everything, and never a problem


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## jjmanthei05 (Aug 7, 2015)

NHTraveler said:


> So, it seems a lot of people use the credit pool.
> 
> Has there ever been a time where you wanted to book something using your credit pool points and the points were not available?
> 
> ...



I don't think this is an issue because there are quite a few people that pool future points to use them now. so there is a balance of both people who extend the points and people who pull them forward. 

Jason


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## debrinkleyusa (Aug 13, 2015)

If I am following the logic in these threads correctly, it sounds like the recent changes are going to make it easier to avoid having points expire if we use the credit pool.  For example, credit pool points with an expiration date in 2018 could be used to book a 2016 reservation.  If we cancel and rebook, whatever leftover points we get back will go back to having a 2018 expiration date.  Has anyone tested this yet?

Thanks to all who contribute to the forum.  Your replies are very helpful.

Best,
DB


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## am1 (Aug 13, 2015)

debrinkleyusa said:


> If I am following the logic in these threads correctly, it sounds like the recent changes are going to make it easier to avoid having points expire if we use the credit pool.  For example, credit pool points with an expiration date in 2018 could be used to book a 2016 reservation.  If we cancel and rebook, whatever leftover points we get back will go back to having a 2018 expiration date.  Has anyone tested this yet?
> 
> Thanks to all who contribute to the forum.  Your replies are very helpful.
> 
> ...



You are correct.  There is less need to credit pool early and option to credit pool regular use year points that were once used for a reservation a nice help.  Will this make the pool go dry for awhile is the question?


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## Ty1on (Aug 13, 2015)

am1 said:


> Will this make the pool go dry for awhile is the question?



Take this as an attempt to understand rather than an argument.....wouldn't the new rule _increase_ credit pool inventory as cancellations are returned to the pool instead of left in member accounts as cancelled points?


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## Bigrob (Aug 13, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> Take this as an attempt to understand rather than an argument.....wouldn't the new rule _increase_ credit pool inventory as cancellations are returned to the pool instead of left in member accounts as cancelled points?



I would also think it will incent people to credit pool if they aren't going to using ARP and don't deposit to RCI. That way they aren't left with odd bits at the end of the year. I think overall credit pool usage will increase and availability should also increase.


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## am1 (Aug 13, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> Take this as an attempt to understand rather than an argument.....wouldn't the new rule _increase_ credit pool inventory as cancellations are returned to the pool instead of left in member accounts as cancelled points?



You may be right.  But my thinking is people will wait as long as they can to deposit the points into the credit pool.  Every September 30th I will be evaluating how many points I want for the rest of the year.  There could be a lag time between now and when that happens.  

Since Wyndham realigned use years there are a lot more points starting January 1.  That means December could be the month the credit pool goes dry.  

Or it is possible that Wyndham floats the credit pool when needed so there are no issues.


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## Myxdvz (Aug 14, 2015)

Can someone confirm if I am understanding this correctly --

>  Cancelled points from reservations made with Credit pool points, go back to being Credit Pool Points
>  Credit Pool points can't be deposited to RCI

Does that follow that for those who credit pool EVERYTHING (except ARP), that there won't by any more points eligible for RCI deposit?

I'm trying to figure out if that's good or bad.  The prior recommendations were to credit pool everything once you've made your ARP reservations.  Or credit pool everything except points you might need for ARP.

For those who still want to deposit to RCI for DVC purposes -- where will they get their points?  I used to only deposit "unused points" to RCI, and I normally have some (either cancelled or left over).  If I credit pool everything, it seems I wouldn't have anything for RCI. I'd have to choose to deposit to RCI before I credit pool points.

Am I missing something?


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## Ty1on (Aug 14, 2015)

Myxdvz said:


> Can someone confirm if I am understanding this correctly --
> 
> >  Cancelled points from reservations made with Credit pool points, go back to being Credit Pool Points
> >  Credit Pool points can't be deposited to RCI
> ...



That would be correct.  I think you can look at the alternatives of different ways to bank your points for future use at your or another resort.  Which you choose would depend upon whether you will want to use those banked points within the Wyndham system (with no exchange fee) or trade for an outside resort, paying the exchange fee.  I think either choice is final once you act.

My opinion is that if you will want DVC and you know for certain that is what you will want, deposit in RCI.


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## ronparise (Aug 14, 2015)

Myxdvz said:


> The prior recommendations were to credit pool everything once you've made your ARP reservations.  Or credit pool everything except points you might need for ARP.
> 
> For those who still want to deposit to RCI for DVC purposes -- where will they get their points?  I used to only deposit "unused points" to RCI, and I normally have some (either cancelled or left over).  If I credit pool everything, it seems I wouldn't have anything for RCI. I'd have to choose to deposit to RCI before I credit pool points.
> 
> Am I missing something?



That recommendation to credit pool everything except what you reserve for ARP sounds like me... but its not a recommendation; Its what works for me,

if you like Ill modify it though..  I credit pool everything except what I reserve for ARP or RCI


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## Myxdvz (Aug 14, 2015)

The thing is, I don't actually reserve points for RCI. I only use RCI as a last resort since I don't think it's the best use of my points. And DVC 2 BR has been non-existent lately so I wouldn't want to reserve regular points for those.

Looks like I'm going to have to rethink the strategy. Maybe this is actually a good thing - I just haven't decided.


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## Ty1on (Aug 14, 2015)

Myxdvz said:


> The thing is, I don't actually reserve points for RCI. I only use RCI as a last resort since I don't think it's the best use of my points. And DVC 2 BR has been non-existent lately so I wouldn't want to reserve regular points for those.
> 
> Looks like I'm going to have to rethink the strategy. Maybe this is actually a good thing - I just haven't decided.
> 
> ...



It all comes down to your best use, really.  It is unquestionably true that where you once may have been able to cancel and deposit CP points in RCI, that is no longer the case.  But, if you are primarily a user of the Wyndham system, this is definitely advantageous for you, as cancelled CP points go back to the pool with their original expiry, and you aren't stuck with dumping them in RCI with the hope of figuring out something to do with them.

And 2BR DVC have been non-existent independently of the rules change, so the change itself shouldn't factor into your decision process.  Either you want to take a shot at landing a DVC, or you don't.  The risk, before and now, is that you don't find the interval you need, and you are left scrambling for an alternative RCI interval that is acceptable to your needs.


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