# HGVC Maintenance Fee Refunds 2020/2021?



## HGVC Lover (May 23, 2020)

I know we have not been able to use any of our 28,000 HGVC points this year and I am not sure about using them rest of the year either because of HGVC resort closures due to COVID-19.  

Our insurance company gave us back 25% of our car insurance premium because we are driving less in the age of COVID-19.  

I was wondering about people's thinking in regards to HGVC giving back a percentage of people's 2020 MF's or a partial credit for 2021 MF's because most resorts were closed or are still closed and I am assume maintenance costs were down for those properties and also staff salaries to run them.


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## pedro47 (May 23, 2020)

A maintenance fee refund from a timeshare. I feel you have  better odds winning the lottery. LOL


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## linsj (May 23, 2020)

I'd be happy with no increase next year.


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## Arimaas (May 23, 2020)

HGVC Lover said:


> I know we have not been able to use any of our 28,000 HGVC points this year and I am not sure about using them rest of the year either because of HGVC resort closures due to COVID-19.
> 
> Our insurance company gave us back 25% of our car insurance premium because we are driving less in the age of COVID-19.
> 
> I was wondering about people's thinking in regards to HGVC giving back a percentage of people's 2020 MF's or a partial credit for 2021 MF's because most resorts were closed or are still closed and I am assume maintenance costs were down for those properties and also staff salaries to run them.



I understand your position - but the property (which we all own) still needs to be maintained - landscaping, HVAC, plumbing, etc. I guess there was savings on staff cost and they could return that to the owners, but honestly, if given the option, I rather them pay their staff instead of giving me back a percentage (both of which are unlikely scenarios IMHO).


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## buzglyd (May 23, 2020)

It’s not HGV’s money. It belongs to the HOA of which you are a part.


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## SmithOp (May 23, 2020)

It would be nice if the 2021 HOA fee increases are $0 or even reduced. 

I understand there is a fixed cost to keep the lights on but surely there is a reduction in energy costs with the units empty for a portion of the year. That should leave some funds in the operating costs to carry over to next year.  Then again, that might be used up by increase in cleaning costs once it re-opens.




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## PigsDad (May 23, 2020)

@HGVC Lover, I assume that you would forfeit your 2020 points in lieu of those maintenance fees, correct?

Kurt


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## Talent312 (May 23, 2020)

SmithOp said:


> ...surely there is a reduction in energy costs with the units empty for a portion of the year....



They prolly also laid off the cleaning crews, reception, activities and cafe staff.
I wonder if there was much more than the gardners, pool peep & security on site.
,


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## ocdb8r (May 24, 2020)

I don't think there is any chance we will see any refunds.  While there should be some savings, the magnitude of these is hard to predict.  While they could have laid off some staff, I'm haven't seen any information from any of the big timeshare companies that they actually did.  They actually have no incentive to do so - we have already paid our maintenance fees for the year and most management contracts base the remuneration as an overall percentage of each resort's budget.  Therefore, they are incentivized to keep staff on.

Regardless, I think there will be some measure of savings.  However, there is also likely to be increased costs and resorts get back up and running.  The additional cleanliness and safety measures will not come free.  Resorts will have to employ additional staff, buy new cleaning products and perhaps additional equipment to satisfy local lodging requirements.  

Like others have posted, I'd be happy if we see zero increase in fees for next year.


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## bogey21 (May 24, 2020)

I don't think  they should be able to have it both ways.  Either take (and not cancel) Reservations or refund all or part of MFs.  It is too much of a one way street...

George


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## Talent312 (May 24, 2020)

Any savings will likely be equivalent to increased defaults.
So the rest of us will be stuck with the bills, so to speak.


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## PigsDad (May 24, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> I don't think  they should be able to have it both ways.  Either take (and not cancel) Reservations or refund all or part of MFs.  It is too much of a one way street...


With a traditional week-based timeshare, maybe, but HGVC is a point system and the members are receiving their points back from any reservation that has been cancelled due to the resort being shut down.  The member can then use those points to book something else at a later time.  No value is lost.

Kurt


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## bogey21 (May 24, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> The member can then use those points to book something else at a later time.  No value is lost.



I  have never owned Points so I'm not one to be pontificating here but it seems to me that with unusable Points accumulating in Owner's accounts the situation may arise where too many Points are chasing too few Weeks before the Points expire.  But like I said I have never owned Points and could be dead wrong here...

George


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## PigsDad (May 24, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> I  have never owned Points so I'm not one to be pontificating here but it seems to me that with unusable Points accumulating in Owner's accounts the situation may arise where too many Points are chasing too few Weeks before the Points expire.  But like I said I have never owned Points and could be dead wrong here...


That's a valid concern, and HGVC members will probably experience a little more difficulty finding those great reservations due to more competition, but members have many places where they can use their points outside of HGVC resorts.  That includes RCI, converting to Hilton Honors to use at Hilton's family of hotel chains, plus some other travel partners.  With HGVC having many resorts to choose from, while people may not get their first choice in reservations, I think most will find good use for their points.

Kurt


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## HGVC Lover (May 25, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> With a traditional week-based timeshare, maybe, but HGVC is a point system and the members are receiving their points back from any reservation that has been cancelled due to the resort being shut down.  The member can then use those points to book something else at a later time.  No value is lost.
> 
> Kurt



Time is value.....there could be a majority of a year go by where HGVC owners paid their MF's in good faith but were unable to use their points because the HGVC product was unavailable through no fault of their own.....I do not think my MF's for this year I really getting me anything at this time....


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## Tamaradarann (May 25, 2020)

HGVC Lover said:


> Time is value.....there could be a majority of a year go by where HGVC owners paid their MF's in good faith but were unable to use their points because the HGVC product was unavailable through no fault of their own.....I do not think my MF's for this year I really getting me anything at this time....



I agree with you your maintenance fees are NOT getting you anything right now in the resorts that are closed.  However, I just noticed on the website this morning that resorts I have resrvatons at in Florida are open and it is indicated on the website for my reservations.  You could use your points to reserve at resorts that are open.  

Furthermrore, alot of people are not getting what they paid for and what they were getting before the virus.   This is a pandemic all over the world.  Everybody and all organizations have been effected by it and have had to adjust.  There are still many costs in the resorts that are closed in 2020.  HGVC is providing some relief to members by extending points and allowing no cost reservations.  Perhaps they will refund some of the maintenance fees or lower the mainteance for next year since they will have some savings from this year.  We will need to wait and see.


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## JIMinNC (May 25, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> I don't think  they should be able to have it both ways.  Either take (and not cancel) Reservations or refund all or part of MFs.  It is too much of a one way street...
> 
> George



The maintenance fees are independent of usage/reservations. As a timeshare owner, you are a partial owner of the property and have to pay all costs to maintain and operate the property. If you owned a vacation home yourself, you would still have to pay property taxes, utilities, maintenance costs, insurance, etc. whether you used your home or not. Owning a timeshare is no different except you share those costs with many other owners.


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## bogey21 (May 25, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> The maintenance fees are independent of usage/reservations. As a timeshare owner, you are a partial owner of the property and have to pay all costs to maintain and operate the property. If you owned a vacation home yourself, you would still have to pay property taxes, utilities, maintenance costs, insurance, etc. whether you used your home or not. Owning a timeshare is no different except you share those costs with many other owners.



As my experience has been owning Fixed Weeks where I totally agree with this comment.  It just seems to me that owning Points should be a different animal.  I guess it comes down to the language in the contract as to whether you own Real Estate or a Membership...

George


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## Talent312 (May 25, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> As my experience has been owning Fixed Weeks where I totally agree with this comment.  It just seems to me that owning Points should be a different animal.  I guess it comes down to the language in the contract as to whether you own Real Estate or a Membership...



HGVC is kinda both. You get a deed with a week, but it's a flex-week, meaning:
You can book a week at your resort in the same size/season you own (12 mos. out).
But you can also opt to use the points it carries to book 3N+ anywhere (9 mos out).

Either way, you share in the operating expenses of your home-resort.
More significant is that the HOA boards are captives of the parent HGVC.
IOW, your MF's are generally subject to the whims of HGVC's executives.


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## JIMinNC (May 26, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> As my experience has been owning Fixed Weeks where I totally agree with this comment.  It just seems to me that owning Points should be a different animal.  I guess it comes down to the language in the contract as to whether you own Real Estate or a Membership...
> 
> George



If the points were structured as a "membership" then it might be different, but the major point-based systems like HGVC, Marriott, Westin/Sheraton, etc. are all structured as deeded real estate. As @Talent312 said, HGVC is a deeded week real estate ownership, but the points are an added benefit under the contract as an internal exchange enhancement with other HGVC resorts. In Marriott and Westin/Sheraton there are deeded weeks with a similar type of point allocation for each week, as well as additional ownership options to buy deeded interests in a real estate trust. But in all of these the underlying ownership is an interest in real estate, so you are an owner and responsible for your share of the ongoing operating expenses regardless of whether you can use the property or not. That ownership can be monetized as points, but it is a real estate interest nonetheless.


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## bogey21 (May 27, 2020)

Excellent  explanation.  Thanks...

George


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## JudyS (May 27, 2020)

Disney Vacation Club has said it may give refunds due to savings on closed units.

I heard Westin St John gave refunds after they were closed due to hurricane, but the presumably had hurricane insurance to help them meet costs.


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## brp (May 27, 2020)

JudyS said:


> Disney Vacation Club has said it may give refunds due to savings on closed units.



Interesting. Do you have a link on this? We own DVC and I read a DVC board and haven't heard anything about this.

Cheers.


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## dayooper (May 27, 2020)

Been watching this thread since it started. A couple of things I would like to add.

I seems to me that next year is going to be a difficult year for these resorts. Since HGVC is pushing saved 2019 points to 2021 and many aren’t traveling this year, also saving their points, the resorts are going to be jammed packed next year. Even the less popular resorts are going to be busier than usual. The maintenance crews are going to be working more and, with the new cleaning procedures and greater occupancy, the cleaning crews will need to be working more hours or new hires will have to be made. What funds aren’t being used this year may be used next.

While it’s not the entire time off,  fees have been working setting up and learning the procedures when they do open up. 

I have been very impressed with the staff at the resorts I’ve been to. They are very courteous and helpful. An example I have is one of the maintenance workers at Ocean 22. My 9 year old locked the bathroom door and we could not get in. We were embarrassed that we had to call. The gentleman can in, fixed the problem and made us feel like it happened all the time. That kind of worker needs to be kept. Not that I think it will happen, but I sincerely hope that these people got paid somewhat during closure.

As long as my MF’s don’t go into corporate hands and stay with my resort, I really don’t need to have my MF’s returned. They aren’t that large to begin with and would like my resort kept up to the shape it can.


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## jabberwocky (May 27, 2020)

dayooper said:


> I seems to me that next year is going to be a difficult year for these resorts. Since HGVC is pushing saved 2019 points to 2021 and many aren’t traveling this year, also saving their points, the resorts are going to be jammed packed next year. Even the less popular resorts are going to be busier than usual.



This is a good point - I've wondered whether HGVC wouldn't benefit by offering an extended period for saving points (say 2020 points could be used in 2022 or 2023) for an extra fee.  This would help spread out the pain from a single year and I'm sure some people would pay extra for the additional flexibility.


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## CalGalTraveler (May 28, 2020)

I believe that unused banked points can be deposited to RCI to extend the points for another 2 years.


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## CanuckTravlr (May 28, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I believe that unused banked points can be deposited to RCI to extend the points for another 2 years.



Yes, saved points can be transferred to RCI.  However, if HGVC were to extend the period to be able to use the points *within* the HGVC system, then I would assume the ability to transfer them to RCI at the end would still be available.  That might make such an extension option appealing to some people.  It might also help solve a potential excessive demand situation by spreading it over a number of years.


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 28, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> This is a good point - I've wondered whether HGVC wouldn't benefit by offering an extended period for saving points (say 2020 points could be used in 2022 or 2023) for an extra fee.  This would help spread out the pain from a single year and I'm sure some people would pay extra for the additional flexibility.




That's an interesting idea, and i am sure they would get some people to take that option.

At the moment, i am seeing decent availability for the places i am interested int.  Will have to see how the year progresses.  The "extra demand" may be tempered by a  sizable portion of the population still limiting their travel.


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## csodjd (May 31, 2020)

JIMinNC said:


> The maintenance fees are independent of usage/reservations. As a timeshare owner, you are a partial owner of the property and have to pay all costs to maintain and operate the property. If you owned a vacation home yourself, you would still have to pay property taxes, utilities, maintenance costs, insurance, etc. whether you used your home or not. Owning a timeshare is no different except you share those costs with many other owners.


True. But the cost of operating my home is certainly less if I'm not there. However, I agree with another poster that the reduction in maintenance costs from closure will likely be offset by defaults.


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## Yellowfin (May 31, 2020)

Shouldn't the local governments refund the property taxes for the weeks/months the resorts have been closed by state order? Let's take Hawaii as an example. If they want to keep the islands closed for an extended period of time, fine with me, it is there prerogative. But why would they still collect taxes while keeping the visitors out?


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## dayooper (May 31, 2020)

Post Deleted.


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## tombanjo (May 31, 2020)

I got a refund from my car insurance. Less people driving translates directly into less claims. It is a directly measurable and quantifiable amount. Your taxes on timeshares are your share of the total cost. Someone still had to pay the fire department to make sure they could put out a fire if the building caught fire, and all the other services that taxes pay for. You can use the timeshare now, or maybe used it before the quarantine. There are people who have never once stayed at the property they own. Taxes still need to be paid independent of your desires or time you show up or don't show up at your property.


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## Yellowfin (May 31, 2020)

No taxation without reservation!


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## frank808 (May 31, 2020)

Yellowfin said:


> Shouldn't the local governments refund the property taxes for the weeks/months the resorts have been closed by state order? Let's take Hawaii as an example. If they want to keep the islands closed for an extended period of time, fine with me, it is there prerogative. But why would they still collect taxes while keeping the visitors out?


Hotels were never ordered to close by state order. They were closed voluntarily by the hotels/resorts. Only vacation home rentals were closed by government order.

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## Yellowfin (May 31, 2020)

frank808 said:


> Hotels were never ordered to close by state order. They were closed voluntarily by the hotels/resorts. Only vacation home rentals were closed by government order.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


it is an implicit order since the regular visitors are prevented to fly to Hawaii and imposed a quarantine.


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## tombanjo (May 31, 2020)

You can fly there and rent a hotel room, you just need to stay put for 14 days. Obviously, most people do not want to use 2 weeks of vacation to be locked in a hotel room. HGVC is closed, as it is safer for ALL involved to be shut than to try and accommodate guests, who cannot leave their rooms. While some things like the electric bill and water bill will be significantly lower, other costs continue unabated, or even will increase (special COVID cleaning on reopening). Your points are protected, and can be used for future reservations, so all you have lost is time. For me, who prefers NY, and planned on trips during the "low" season of spring, I can't recover that time slot. Plus, there is a limit on vacation time from work, I can't roll it over till next year, if I can't book all my points for this year. In the grand scheme of things, it is difficult to pay for something you can't use as intended, but with 100,000 dead people in the US from this, 3 months where I couldn't take my vacation when I wanted is not the biggest problem out there.


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## frank808 (May 31, 2020)

Yellowfin said:


> it is an implicit order since the regular visitors are prevented to fly to Hawaii and imposed a quarantine.


I do not see a ban for visitors or residents flying to or from Hawaii. Please show me an official order from the State of Hawaii banning you from flying to Hawaii.

The quarantine is for 14 days for everyone coming into the state. A quarantine is not the same as ban. 

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## Tamaradarann (Jun 1, 2020)

frank808 said:


> I do not see a ban for visitors or residents flying to or from Hawaii. Please show me an official order from the State of Hawaii banning you from flying to Hawaii.
> 
> The quarantine is for 14 days for everyone coming into the state. A quarantine is not the same as ban.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk



We are not talking an explicitly stated ban on visitors.  If traveling to Hawaii to be cooped up in your room for 2 weeks is your idea of a vacation then you are welcome to it.  Most people do not look at that as a desirable vacation and haven't been doing it.  Governor Ige knew correctly that the 14 quarantine would eliminate most visitors.  It was a nice way of saying don't come.  Someone who has a home in Hawaii, as you do, will endure the quarantine since they would be home and can stay forever after the 14 days.


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## frank808 (Jun 1, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> We are not talking an explicitly stated ban on visitors.  If traveling to Hawaii to be cooped up in your room for 2 weeks is your idea of a vacation then you are welcome to it.  Most people do not look at that as a desirable vacation and haven't been doing it.  Governor Ige knew correctly that the 14 quarantine would eliminate most visitors.  It was a nice way of saying don't come.  Someone who has a home in Hawaii, as you do, will endure the quarantine since they would be home and can stay forever after the 14 days.


Just wanted to be clear that visitors and residents alike have to endure the quarantine.  There was never a ban on visitors flying to Hawaii.  

There are people that go through the quarantine to stay in Hawaii.  During April, at Marriotts KoOlina, the percentage of villas occupied by quarantining occupants has been from 66%-80% of the property.  Right now, it is about 33% of people serving quarantine as there has been a lot of new check ins since Memorial Day weekend and those guests that have had quarantine in April are finished.  Also there are a few guests not taking the quarantine seriously.


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## Tamaradarann (Jun 2, 2020)

frank808 said:


> Just wanted to be clear that visitors and residents alike have to endure the quarantine.  There was never a ban on visitors flying to Hawaii.
> 
> There are people that go through the quarantine to stay in Hawaii.  During April, at Marriotts KoOlina, the percentage of villas occupied by quarantining occupants has been from 66%-80% of the property.  Right now, it is about 33% of people serving quarantine as there has been a lot of new check ins since Memorial Day weekend and those guests that have had quarantine in April are finished.  Also there are a few guests not taking the quarantine seriously.



 I believe everyone here is clear that vistors and residents alike have to all endure the quarantine, and that there never was a ban on visitors flying to Hawaii.   I was on Oahu at the Hilton Hawaiian Village when the quarantine was announced and left just as it was going in effect.  The HGVC Resort Director told us that with the few people left at the resort they were going to close, which they did shortly after.   When we left Waikiki was no longer the place that we love and want to return to it was like a ghost town with little to do.  While we didn't want to leave, we also didn't want to stay there the way it was.  For us it was no longer fun.  

What I do need clarification on is that are you saying that the Mariott KoOlina resort is and has been almost full?  Enough people have been coming and staying there enduring the 14 day quarantine from late March until now to keep it almost full?


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## frank808 (Jun 2, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> I believe everyone here is clear that vistors and residents alike have to all endure the quarantine, and that there never was a ban on visitors flying to Hawaii. I was on Oahu at the Hilton Hawaiian Village when the quarantine was announced and left just as it was going in effect. The HGVC Resort Director told us that with the few people left at the resort they were going to close, which they did shortly after. When we left Waikiki was no longer the place that we love and want to return to it was like a ghost town with little to do. While we didn't want to leave, we also didn't want to stay there the way it was. For us it was no longer fun.
> 
> What I do need clarification on is that are you saying that the Mariott KoOlina resort is and has been almost full? Enough people have been coming and staying there enduring the 14 day quarantine from late March until now to keep it almost full?



No, not full at all. Has been as low as 3-4 villas occupied in early april to around 12 units occupied as of this past week. 

The percentage is of villas occupied by quarantined folks, not total occupancy of resort. I dont believe any hotel in Hawaii has occupancy of more than 8% if you take out the rooms being provided to first responders. MKO occupancy level is in the 10% range now. 

I do not believe it is right for HGVC to tell owners that they cannot stay at resort was not closed down by an act of government. Evey owner in HGVC, has a deeded interest in a unit to use. If I made a home resort booking at Lagoon, now I will have lost that week this year and have to do a club booking in the future. Maybe with HGVC there are not enough owners using home week?

Myself and a couple other tuggers have been enjoying the relatively quiet, calm and empty resort. Now if only hot tubs were open to use, it would be perfect. 

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## Tamaradarann (Jun 3, 2020)

frank808 said:


> No, not full at all. Has been as low as 3-4 villas occupied in early april to around 12 units occupied as of this past week.
> 
> The percentage is of villas occupied by quarantined folks, not total occupancy of resort. I dont believe any hotel in Hawaii has occupancy of more than 8% if you take out the rooms being provided to first responders. MKO occupancy level is in the 10% range now.
> 
> ...



We don't own in Hawaii and we never use home week anywhere in the HGVC system, the reservation system is too restrictive for most people's needs, so that home week is not an issue.  The Hilton Hawaiian Village, being in Waikiki and in the middle of Honolulu, is a different type of vacation than MKO.  To really enjoy and take advantage of the location of the HHV Waikiki and Honolulu need to be open for all the stuff to do and all the people.  The ghost town that we saw in late March was not attractive, it was depressing.  While we were intending on staying for a extended period of time, since we had points to do it, we were not really that disappointed in having to leave and go home on the last direct flight from HNL to JFK and a very private safe home with our own in the ground pool.

We have decided not to go back until the 14 day quarantine is over and tourists are again WELCOMED to Hawaii.  Hopefully Honolulu will be fun again.  If not, perhaps it is no longer our special place.


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## frank808 (Jun 3, 2020)

Tamaradarann said:


> We don't own in Hawaii and we never use home week anywhere in the HGVC system, the reservation system is too restrictive for most people's needs, so that home week is not an issue. The Hilton Hawaiian Village, being in Waikiki and in the middle of Honolulu, is a different type of vacation than MKO. To really enjoy and take advantage of the location of the HHV Waikiki and Honolulu need to be open for all the stuff to do and all the people. The ghost town that we saw in late March was not attractive, it was depressing. While we were intending on staying for a extended period of time, since we had points to do it, we were not really that disappointed in having to leave and go home on the last direct flight from HNL to JFK and a very private safe home with our own in the ground pool.
> 
> We have decided not to go back until the 14 day quarantine is over and tourists are again WELCOMED to Hawaii. Hopefully Honolulu will be fun again. If not, perhaps it is no longer our special place.


By all means, if that is not the experience you want, do what you feel is right.

When we are on vacation, we hardly stay at the resort. We are a theme park family. Will be flying into Orlando next week to visit the parks. Important that the resort we are staying at has an open hot tub to relax in after a day at the parks!

Welcome back to the islands when you feel it it time to visit. If we are down at HHV during the same time we can meet up and have a drink. 

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## Tamaradarann (Jun 3, 2020)

frank808 said:


> By all means, if that is not the experience you want, do what you feel is right.
> 
> When we are on vacation, we hardly stay at the resort. We are a theme park family. Will be flying into Orlando next week to visit the parks. Important that the resort we are staying at has an open hot tub to relax in after a day at the parks!
> 
> ...



When we are on vacations we hardly stay at the resort also.  We are retired and are no longer theme park people.  However, we do alot of live theatre, live music shows, museums, restauants, and breweries that are closed as well as the gym.   In addtion to removing the 14 day quarantine the opening up of Honolulu for large gatherings would be essential for us to return for an enjoyable trip.


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## DEROS (Jun 4, 2020)

There will be no refund but next year annual MF (2021) may be lower.  I know most people, like me, don't really read the documents that are on line for the resort we own.  However, one of those documents is a by line Assessment Billing for the next year  (Normally comes out in November).  This is how the HOA derives what the annual MF will be for the next year.  So, if there is any savings due to COVID, it will be annotated somewhere in Assessment Billing for 2021.  Maybe in the 'Operating Revenue / Other Income" row.  Eventually there will be a Financial Audit of 2020, which will be published about March 2021.  This will have the budgeted, actual, and variance.  Then we can see if any savings was realized and the HOA budgeted correctly in the Assessment Billing for 2021. 

Bottom-line:  This year and the next, as owners, we need to be vigilant in reading the financial documents and questioning the budget.  That also means participating in the HOA annual board meeting, even if it is by proxy.


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## PigsDad (Jun 5, 2020)

One point about CV-19's effect on MFs that was brought up in a thread back in Mar/Apr was that even though some expenses may be less due to furloughing employees, if the resort has a store / restaurant onsite or other revenue-generating activities, they will see less income due to being shutdown, and that may offset the reduced expenses, so it is unclear what the net effect on MFs will be for the year.

Kurt


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## GT75 (Jun 8, 2020)

I have been trying to decide if I predict MFs will increase or decrease next year.    I actually could see it go both ways.   I am currently at Ocean Oak this week.   What I am observing is more workers in the common spaces such as lobby and pool areas performing CV-19 tasks such as wiping down carts and handrails.  In addition, I suspect that the contract staff such as housekeeping will be more expensive due to additional CV-19 requirements.    So, I am predicting an increase with some wording on our 2021 MF bill, ...due to additional CV-19 requirement ...


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## natarajanv (Jun 8, 2020)

GT75 said:


> I am currently at Ocean Oak this week.



Are you staying at Phase 2? Can you please post some pictures of Phase 2 if possible, I don't think we have them.


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## GT75 (Jun 8, 2020)

natarajanv said:


> Are you staying at Phase 2? Can you please post some pictures of Phase 2 if possible, I don't think we have them.


Certainly, I will update our sticky.


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