# To my friends I want to let you know my life has taken a new direction



## Panina (Jul 5, 2020)

As I am writing this I am sitting in my screened patio listening to the birds and finding  myself feeling at peace.

I struggled whether to post this as I do not want pity or sadness.  I am a person who takes what happens and makes the best of it as I can.

I decided to share as you all have a wealth of knowledge and I want to post other threads to help me get insight to decisions I will make in the future.  Those threads will lead to why?

I do not believe in hiding things. It serves no purpose. 

My life is taking a new direction.  After 10 years with my other half we will be going our separate ways.  I have chosen to take the amicable way and he took my lead.  With the pandemic we are coexisting in the same house as he looks for a new home. I need to decide what I will do. Lots of options but with the pandemic will take my time. Home inventory is so low that I know we just might be in the same house for awhile.  

And for those of you that conclude moving to the 55+ community caused this breakup, it is not the cause.  Ultimately if I choose to move and find something prior to him he might  stay here.

The hardest part was telling my stepdaughter, heart wrenching. Even at 21 it hit her hard.  I hope she will always be part of my life and I will always be there for her, no matter what, if she chooses.

Anyway I always believe life takes you where you need to go.  This was a long time in coming.  I have been fortunate I was married to a wonderful man for almost 25 years before he passed of a brain aneurysm suddenly.  My current relationship had it’s good times. I don’t want to minimize the good but with other factors it just wasn’t enough.

I am fine taking care of myself but in my heart I hope in time to find a friend that becomes more and have a simple uncomplicated relationship with an abundance of love.

Life is good if one looks at the positive possibilities.

And yes, I will continue timesharing.


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## Cornell (Jul 5, 2020)

XOXOXO to you.  Sending you virtual support.  

Your commitment and words regarding your step-daughter says so much about you.


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## slip (Jul 5, 2020)

There will always be support here with your TUG friends.


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## Luanne (Jul 5, 2020)




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## AnnaS (Jul 5, 2020)

We are all here for you.  xoxox


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## rapmarks (Jul 5, 2020)

Virtual hugs


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## Passepartout (Jul 5, 2020)

More changes complements of 2020. Panina, your TUG family will be here pulling for you.


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## bluehende (Jul 5, 2020)

What an unbelievable attitude.  You are so strong I feel quite certain you will do great things.


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## GregT (Jul 5, 2020)

I admire your courage, your candor and your perspective and I wish you the very best in the next phase of life.  I will hope our paths cross when the world normalizes!

My best,

Greg


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## jackio (Jul 5, 2020)

Wishing you peace and the best outcome during this time.  I admire your positive attitude.


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## GT75 (Jul 5, 2020)

Panina, so sorry to hear this news but I agree it is best to share.    I am only hoping the best for you as we all do.

As a side note.    I was thinking of you yesterday as I was giving advice to a new TUG member.   I had to give the advice which you always gave, "buy where you want to go".    I wanted this person to get all perspectives.


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## missyrcrews (Jul 5, 2020)

Right there with you.  Divorce is a long, slow process.  One day at a time.  

And yes...I'm still timesharing, too.  He never did like going on vacation.  I do.  So nice to be able to go and not feel guilty about it.   

Hang in there, and know that we love you and are pulling for you.


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## elaine (Jul 5, 2020)

Panina, so sorry. We are all here for you. I know you really tried these past few months and it sounds like you made a lot of sacrifices for your stepdaughter. I hope that you and she continue to have a close relationship and that it flourishes in the future. Elaine


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## "Roger" (Jul 5, 2020)

+1 to all of the messages above.


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## Snazzylass (Jul 5, 2020)

Always loved the line from an old Boz Skaggs song, "once a story's told, it can't help but grow old," meaning, once you share, it gets easier! 

I'm optimistic that you will continue to be close with stepdaughter. It's not uncommon at all! I am still very close with my uncles' first wives. These are the women I grew up with and we have remained friends.

All the best to you!


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## Talent312 (Jul 5, 2020)

It actually can be quick, but no matter how agreeable, you'll need time to recover.

When I divorced (2000), I left a joint petition with a settlement on the counter.
She signed+filed. I put all I wanted in the back of a pick-up and moved out.
We were given a court date four weeks hence.  We had -0- assets to divide.
Afterwards, I went to my Aunt's house in New York... to "get myself together."
I was a mess.  _BTW, this was 20 years ago, and we've both remarried._

I found that almost everybody has a divorce-story or knows someone who does.


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## Glynda (Jul 5, 2020)

Wishing you the best of everything as you go forward!  So glad you shared.


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## Patri (Jul 5, 2020)

You are both amicable, which says a lot. It helps make the hurt easier to bear. Best wishes, and stay friends with step-d. Everyone needs friends.


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## geist1223 (Jul 5, 2020)

Best wishes.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jul 5, 2020)

Your an amazing person and I respect you so much.  Your step-daughter is so fortunate to have you in her life.  I’m so glad for you that this is going to be amicable. 

Please reach out if there’s anything I can do and please know you’ve always got friend in me.

Much love to you


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## amycurl (Jul 5, 2020)

This is tough, but I am glad to see that you are feeling at peace about the situation. I am just up the road, so if you ever need a socially-distanced, but in-person visit, I will so be there. 

*big hugs*

The only way out, is through...


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 5, 2020)

So sorry, Panina.  How very difficult this must be for both of you.  My heart is heavy, thinking of this huge change in your life.  God bless you both.


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## 5finny (Jul 5, 2020)

Best of luck
You are one of the most positive people on TUG
That attitude has to be of great assistance moving on


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## nomoretslt (Jul 5, 2020)

You’re a good, strong person.  You will be fine.  Not to be a downer person, but make sure you have an attorney that has your best interests front and center.  You need to make sure you are financially secure.  Cyber hugs.


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## TravelTime (Jul 5, 2020)

It sounds like it was a tough decision but happy to hear you are at peace. I admire your positive attitude and I hope you will find a friend to share your life with in the future.


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## VacationForever (Jul 5, 2020)

Oh Panina, lots of virtual hugs from me.  You are strong, intelligent and thoughtful which are exhibited through your posts on TUG.  Divorce is hard and often there is no right or wrong or the one thing that leads to the decision.  Please take care of yourself.


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## Krteczech (Jul 6, 2020)

Good luck on your new journey, Panina. Remain strong!


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## geoand (Jul 6, 2020)

Cornell said:


> XOXOXO to you.  Sending you virtual support.
> 
> Your commitment and words regarding your step-daughter says so much about you.


I agree with Cornell. You will be fine.


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## Beachclubmum (Jul 6, 2020)

Wishing you peace and love during trying times. Please know you have a local TUG friend if need one.


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## pianodinosaur (Jul 6, 2020)

Dear Panina:

I am so sorry to hear about your divorce.  Too many of my friends have gone through that experience.  The only people who really benefit from a divorce are the attorneys.  Good luck towards your future.


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## mav (Jul 6, 2020)

Panina, you are a lovely person, and I am sure your step daughter feels like you are a second Mom.  You 2 will always be close. And U are a winner with your lovely nature, all will be well. many hugs


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## bbodb1 (Jul 6, 2020)

Sorry to hear about this @Panina - as I recall some of your postings over the past few months, your perceptible angst certainly increased as time went by.  Moving as y'all did, plus COVID-19 added complexity at a time when simplicity would be preferred, but the many factors of life are not always under our control.  Just remember: one day at a time, one step at a time, looking forward in the direction you want to go.


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## DaveNV (Jul 6, 2020)

That is very sad news, and I'm sorry to hear it.  But you are strong and capable, so you'll find the right path, going forward.  As others have said, we're here for you. Wishing you all the best.

Dave


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## WinniWoman (Jul 6, 2020)

So very sorry to hear this but I know it has been a struggle for you. I hope you will stay in your new home and community  as you put so much effort into moving there and I know your husband was not crazy about it Initially anyway.

Of course, what matters most is your happiness- and his, too- and I know you will get through this - you are a smart one-  and re create the life you deserve. Heartfelt wishes that you get past this and for a wonderful future.


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## dsmrp (Jul 6, 2020)

Sorry for both of you. I suggest counseling, even if teleservice, no matter what the age. An objective 3rd voice might help while you have to live in physical space, but apart.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

Cornell said:


> XOXOXO to you.  Sending you virtual support.
> 
> Your commitment and words regarding your step-daughter says so much about you.



Thank you.

She is my  utmost concern during this split.  I stood as long as I did because of her as neither of her parents could guide her in the right direction.  Whereas it would be easy not to go the amicable way I want to make sure she always feels her dad and me are friends so she doesn’t feel she has to choose and can come to me.  

She always chose me to confide in and get guidance even when she “hated“ me at the moment.  I was the parent.  She has blossomed from an angry confused girl when I came into her life to a wonderful young woman.  She has told me without me she would never had gotten where she is as neither of her parents could have helped her the way I did.


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## Cornell (Jul 6, 2020)

Oh @Panina , as a single mom doing this all by myself I’m tearing up reading this. Again, I reiterate my support to you.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> It actually can be quick, but no matter how agreeable, you'll need time to recover.
> 
> When I divorced (2000), I left a joint petition with a settlement on the counter.
> She signed+filed. I put all I wanted in the back of a pick-up and moved out.
> ...


It is a process and sad at times.  I always believed you do everything to try to make a relationship work.  I tried the best I could.  There comes a point enough is enough and the reality of the illusion of a relationship must be faced.  It is a recovery that has been in process awhile.  I went through so much worse, my husband of 24 1/2 years dying suddenly in front of me.  I was younger, this time it feels is a little more scary but not as devastating.  I have hope.


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## b2bailey (Jul 6, 2020)

And perhaps your relationship with daughter was the true purpose of relationship with her father. When my husband passed, at the eulogy, his son mentioned words of affirmation of appreciation for who I was in his life. Some things last forever.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

nomoretslt said:


> You’re a good, strong person.  You will be fine.  Not to be a downer person, but make sure you have an attorney that has your best interests front and center.  You need to make sure you are financially secure.  Cyber hugs.


Everything is decided already, before we ever moved in together.  He does walk out more whole but that is because of an inheritance he acquired during our relationship.  Ultimately if he doesn’t blow the money it will go to my step daughter so that is good.

Money  isn’t everything.  Happiness and peace of mind is.  I will have enough.  Everything I have I earned myself.  I never needed or expected it from anyone else.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

WinniWoman said:


> So very sorry to hear this but I know it has been a struggle for you. I hope you will stay in your new home and community  as you put so much effort into moving there and I know your husband was not crazy about it Initially anyway.
> 
> Of course, what matters most is your happiness- and his, too- and I know you will get through this - you are a smart one-  and re create the life you deserve. Heartfelt wishes that you get past this and for a wonderful future.


Staying here is an option that I am considering but thinking best to move on, create a new environment and not live in the same town. Have time with this pandemic to think it out and make no quick decision.


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## presley (Jul 6, 2020)

It's going to be a long transition, but it sounds like you're prepared for it and you know what to expect. I am sorry that you are going through this, especially now with Covid creating a lot more social isolation.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

dsmrp said:


> Sorry for both of you. I suggest counseling, even if teleservice, no matter what the age. An objective 3rd voice might help while you have to live in physical space, but apart.


Good advice but been there, tried that.  He always feels the counseling sides with me even if he picked them.  You can only meet another part of the way if you accept you have a problem.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

Cornell said:


> Oh @Panina , as a single mom doing this all by myself I’m tearing up reading this. Again, I reiterate my support to you.


Your story that you shared hit a chord with me.  Whereas the parameters are different, getting the strength knowing you need to get out and leave,   you ultimately found in the most difficult situation. It made me think hard.  It took me awhile but I finally got there.  We always hope it changes and then we get smart.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

b2bailey said:


> And perhaps your relationship with daughter was the true purpose of relationship with her father. When my husband passed, at the eulogy, his son mentioned words of affirmation of appreciation for who I was in his life. Some things last forever.


You hit it.  I always said I was brought into his life not for him, as he needs no one, but for his daughters sake.  I truly believe that was my purpose.  All my life my purpose was for others.  Now it is my time.


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## bogey21 (Jul 6, 2020)

Having been there twice, one after 10 years, the other after 20 my advice is give where necessary to keep it amiable.  To the extent possible keep lawyers out of it and bend if you have to not to fight about money, property, etc.  This is what I did.   It worked well for me.   I talk often to both my ex-wives and our three kids have never thought they had to choose between us...

George


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

presley said:


> It's going to be a long transition, but it sounds like you're prepared for it and you know what to expect. I am sorry that you are going through this, especially now with Covid creating a lot more social isolation.


Yes this COVID makes it so much harder.  I cannot explore my options or socialize making new friends.  I can dream, one day.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> Having been there twice, one after 10 years, the other after 20 my advice is give where necessary to keep it amiable.  To the extent possible keep lawyers out of it and bend if you have to not to fight about money, property, etc.  This is what I did.  It worked well for me.   I talk often to both my ex-wives and our three kids have never thought they had to choose between us...
> 
> George


I agree with you totally.


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> Sorry to hear about this @Panina - as I recall some of your postings over the past few months, your perceptible angst certainly increased as time went by.  Moving as y'all did, plus COVID-19 added complexity at a time when simplicity would be preferred, but the many factors of life are not always under our control.  Just remember: one day at a time, one step at a time, looking forward in the direction you want to go.


The move or COVID was not the cause. There were issues prior.  It might have sped it up which is a good thing. I so want simplicity in my life.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 6, 2020)

Panina said:


> The move or COVID was not the cause. There were issues prior.  It might have sped it up which is a good thing. I so want simplicity in my life.


...perhaps you should read from the book of @geekette !


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> ...perhaps you should read from the book of @geekette !


??? Over my head


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## bbodb1 (Jul 6, 2020)

Panina said:


> ??? Over my head


Geekette has been writing about her ongoing efforts to/toward simplification as she is contemplating her next move (possibly to a camp type of area).









						How/why/where did you decide to move if not job related?
					

Dave, best of luck in your new location. Totally agree on getting out of the winter weather, that's our goal too! Will you be changing your TUG name?  :D  ~Diane   Thanks!  I'm looking forward to being in a drier, warmer climate.  I was stationed at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas for awhile...




					tugbbs.com


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## Bailey#1 (Jul 6, 2020)

Panina , wishing  you the best of everything, you are a genuine good person and in the end things will work out for the better.


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## Jan M. (Jul 6, 2020)

Way, way back in the day with my ex I eventually reached the point that I was willing to see that if I felt like I was alone in the relationship then I might as well be alone. We had been together for seven years and married for five of them. For most people coming to the realization that there is very little for you in the relationship, admitting to yourself that you aren't happy and that isn't going to change often takes months if not longer. We put ourselves through a lot in coming to the decision to end things. Many times we're our own worse enemy because we keep asking ourselves, is it really that bad and do I want to be alone? The idea of being alone is scary to at least some degree for most people. It's very freeing when you reach the point that you're ready to say "If I'm not happy then it's up to me to do something about it and I'm ready to do just that. This is my life and it's time for a new chapter in it."

It sounds like you have things well in hand with all that needs to be done now.  I remember having some sad moments in dealing with everything that had to be done.  However I hope you're a little excited about seeing what life holds for you as you move on to the next chapter.

Hopefully we will be able to have a TUG get together in January and you can come and meet some of us. You may meet some people you click with and find some timeshare buddies to get together with in your travels.


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## geekette (Jul 6, 2020)

Sending a big hug.  No life choices are easy, but it's good to accept what isn't working, take a shot at fixing it, then acknowledging there is no fixing.  That's what happened to my marriage.  These things can be completely amicable.  Ours was.  We did DIY divorce, it made no sense to send our money to a lawyer and create animosity.  I'm glad that you both realize you previously wanted to be together, and treat each other nicely still.  Sometimes, there is no fault, things just don't work.

Pandemic is causing most everyone to re-evaluate what they thought they wanted, what they actually need, etc.   I'm so sorry.   You know how to live your life, you'll define your next chapter and hopefully find the happiness you deserve.


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## DrQ (Jul 6, 2020)

Virtual hugs. I hope you find the peace and happiness you desire.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 6, 2020)

@Panina I know this has been a difficult decision for you. You are impressive and strong and I wish you the best.


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## clifffaith (Jul 6, 2020)

I am so sorry to hear this Panina. What a year, and it's only half over! Best wishes and a big hug.


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## mjm1 (Jul 6, 2020)

Panini, I am very sorry this is happening in your life, but wish you the best moving forward.

Best regards.

Mike


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## Grammarhero (Jul 6, 2020)

So sorry.


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## geekette (Jul 6, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> Geekette has been writing about her ongoing efforts to/toward simplification as she is contemplating her next move (possibly to a camp type of area).


Yes, Geekette is divorced and making a move to simplicity.   Northwest NC, the beginnings of a big "glamp ground" over 30 ac.  Several of us will live there in whatever structures we put up for ourselves and build it out, making guest campsites to rent via AirBnb.   Everyone has different hobbies so I expect to learn a lot of things from both the fellow homesteaders, and guests, while working towards monetizing many of my own interests and hobbies. 

When you need to get away from it all and laze in the woods, I'll hook you up.  I am full-on New Chaptering and can't wait to build my first kit cabin. 

My divorce was a while ago, much has changed since then.  Same will be true for you.   I don't view Change as scary and undesirable, but as an opportunity to Do Something Different.  My only goals are peace and happiness.


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## pedro47 (Jul 6, 2020)

I just one you to be happy and at peace. You can, and you will survive alone. Please take your time in making decisions.  Do not get angry,  pick up your Bible and go into a room alone and read it.

Your Tuggers family and I will be here for you.


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## pedro47 (Jul 6, 2020)

here is a big hug from me.


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## VacationForever (Jul 6, 2020)

geekette said:


> Yes, Geekette is divorced and making a move to simplicity.   Northwest NC, the beginnings of a big "glamp ground" over 30 ac.  Several of us will live there in whatever structures we put up for ourselves and build it out, making guest campsites to rent via AirBnb.   Everyone has different hobbies so I expect to learn a lot of things from both the fellow homesteaders, and guests, while working towards monetizing many of my own interests and hobbies.
> 
> When you need to get away from it all and laze in the woods, I'll hook you up.  I am full-on New Chaptering and can't wait to build my first kit cabin.
> 
> My divorce was a while ago, much has changed since then.  Same will be true for you.   I don't view Change as scary and undesirable, but as an opportunity to Do Something Different.  My only goals are peace and happiness.


I remember reading your post about what you will be doing there, helping to grow food.  Will you be selling your current home?


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## geekette (Jul 6, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> I remember reading your post about what you will be doing there, helping to grow food.  Will you be selling your current home?


Yes.  Will be pocketing decades of home equity.   Kit cabins can be very inexpensive, under $5k, so most of my money will stay in my accounts, with plenty of breathing room to put in what I actually need and want.  

The farming is a small part of things, tiny right now, but certainly a responsibility my host doesn't much want, so, I'll own it.   She likes my cooking and doesn't mind doing dishes, so it works great for both of us.   

The space for my Sunrise Coffee Bar is defined, so it will be one of my first build projects.  I will keep on sewing and other crafts, hopefully art fairs and so forth will come back, at least outdoors.   There is time for everything that I want to make time for.   In this old house, it decides what I must make time and money for.


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## #1 Cowboys Fan (Jul 6, 2020)

Panina said:


> You hit it.  I always said I was brought into his life not for him, as he needs no one, but for his daughters sake.  I truly believe that was my purpose.  All my life my purpose was for others.  Now it is my time.



Panina,

Best wishes---it is YOUR time now............


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## VacationForever (Jul 6, 2020)

geekette said:


> The space for my Sunrise Coffee Bar is defined, so it will be one of my first build projects.  I will keep on sewing and other crafts, hopefully art fairs and so forth will come back, at least outdoors.


Please do elaborate what is "Sunrise Coffee Bar"?  It sounds like an adventure, doing something in a different environment than current.


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## geekette (Jul 6, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Please do elaborate what is "Sunrise Coffee Bar"?  It sounds like an adventure, doing something in a different environment than current.


Sunrise Coffee Bar is a hangout space I envisioned "up the hill" from basecamp.  Literally, a place to go to enjoy coffee while the sun comes up.  I couldn't see enough of sunrise from basecamp, we needed to be higher up.  Do yoga, test an outdoor bean bag chair, laze in a hammock, read the paper, do a puzzle, whatever a person chooses for starting their day.  For a guest camper that is the early riser of their party, it's a place to go to get coffee and not have to labor on it themselves, nor disturb the family.  

My gut feel is that it will morph into breakfast central.   There will be at least a partial actual roof but also a pergola with climbing fragrant flowers.  She has a lot of quartz on her land, so one of my latest ideas for it has a quartz path to it and along one side.  Assuming one arrives before light, it could help to have a path of whitish stone to follow.  

The coffee bar idea hit me and I liked it, and so did she.  that's the best part of it - if I can dream it up and it's ok with her, I can build it.  I might have put it higher on the hill, but, hey, stay tuned for Sunset Soiree Space ...  

Being farmer will give me an advantage in knowing what is harvestable so I do expect to offer a water beverage also that may change daily.  Maybe yesterday we had tomato water and today we have peach water and tomorrow is lavender water...    some days I might cut up fruit for morning snack.   I'm not sure how much kitchen I'll end up putting into it.


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## geekette (Jul 6, 2020)

....It sounds like an adventure, doing something in a different environment than current. 

Yes.   An incredible adventure awaits me.  Where I can do most anything because it's a much different environment, and mostly blank canvas across 30+ acres.  I like to be in things at the beginning.


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## VacationForever (Jul 6, 2020)

geekette said:


> Sunrise Coffee Bar is a hangout space I envisioned "up the hill" from basecamp.  Literally, a place to go to enjoy coffee while the sun comes up.  I couldn't see enough of sunrise from basecamp, we needed to be higher up.  Do yoga, test an outdoor bean bag chair, laze in a hammock, read the paper, do a puzzle, whatever a person chooses for starting their day.  For a guest camper that is the early riser of their party, it's a place to go to get coffee and not have to labor on it themselves, nor disturb the family.
> 
> My gut feel is that it will morph into breakfast central.   There will be at least a partial actual roof but also a pergola with climbing fragrant flowers.  She has a lot of quartz on her land, so one of my latest ideas for it has a quartz path to it and along one side.  Assuming one arrives before light, it could help to have a path of whitish stone to follow.
> 
> ...


Ooooooooooo sounds wonderful!  Nothing better than allowing your creativity turn into reality!  Exciting!


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## geekette (Jul 6, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Ooooooooooo sounds wonderful!  Nothing better than allowing your creativity turn into reality!  Exciting!


Yes, it is Very Exciting.  If I get to the point of growing my own coffee beans, I'll be pouring the freshest coffee around.   their grove will be Coffee Grounds.   lol....


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## mdurette (Jul 6, 2020)

Panina - not knowing you personally, but reading your posts, you have always come across as an independent woman to me.    I'm sure you will take on the challenges of the upcoming days/months with a lot of thought.  There will be ups and downs, but in the end....I have no doubt that you will end up where you want to be in life.


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## VacationForever (Jul 6, 2020)

@Panina Sorry for hijacking your thread with questions for @geekette .


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## geekette (Jul 6, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> @Panina Sorry for hijacking your thread with questions for @geekette .


Ditto on my long blathery responses.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 6, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> @Panina Sorry for hijacking your thread with questions for @geekette .


Well, that was kind of my fault to begin with.  I read a lot of similarities with respect to the two of them...


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## geekette (Jul 6, 2020)

There are similarities.   No big marriage blow up, more like slow fade out.  No hard feelings, having to continue to share quarters until physical split possible...   precious stepdaughter (tho I had nearly nothing to do with her turning out to be an amazing woman).

And, New Chapter.   My message is, it can be whatever you want it to be.  And no real timeline on figuring out what that is.  When things are tough, it is when one must be the most understanding of self and not demand answers and plans from self until time passes to show answers and plans.   The possibilities are endless, it takes time to sort through options.   It's ok to Not Yet Know, and don't let anyone press you on "you have to" because no, you don't.  Go your pace.  Decide things your way on your time and mental space.

There are a lot of well-intentioned people that can drive you nuts at break-up of a marriage.   I apparently did not behave how people thought I should, but, they did not have access to my feelings and perspective because they were not in my marriage nor my home.  People I hadn't heard from in a really long time suddenly started calling, presumably thinking I needed to talk, but, since I have always been a very private person, it felt a lot like dirt mining.  I'm fine, it's personal, dig through someone else's life...


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## dayooper (Jul 6, 2020)

So sorry to hear, Panina, but I know you will come out of this a stronger person. I have always been impressed with your strength and attitude toward life and have no doubt that you will succeed in whatever path you choose. As an educator, I commend you for your work with your step daughter. Not every teen has that special someone who will look out for them and your step daughter is truly blessed to have you in her life. As was said before, we are here for you,


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## Panina (Jul 6, 2020)

geekette said:


> There are similarities.   No big marriage blow up, more like slow fade out.  No hard feelings, having to continue to share quarters until physical split possible...   precious stepdaughter (tho I had nearly nothing to do with her turning out to be an amazing woman).
> 
> And, New Chapter.   My message is, it can be whatever you want it to be.  And no real timeline on figuring out what that is.  When things are tough, it is when one must be the most understanding of self and not demand answers and plans from self until time passes to show answers and plans.   The possibilities are endless, it takes time to sort through options.   It's ok to Not Yet Know, and don't let anyone press you on "you have to" because no, you don't.  Go your pace.  Decide things your way on your time and mental space.
> 
> There are a lot of well-intentioned people that can drive you nuts at break-up of a marriage.   I apparently did not behave how people thought I should, but, they did not have access to my feelings and perspective because they were not in my marriage nor my home.  People I hadn't heard from in a really long time suddenly started calling, presumably thinking I needed to talk, but, since I have always been a very private person, it felt a lot like dirt mining.  I'm fine, it's personal, dig through someone else's life...


Yes lots of similarities.  Amazing how others judge and give advice when they live in glass houses.  My friends on tug have more confidence in me then some closest to me.  

One thing I know is I am resilient and know only I can figure out what is best for me.  I accept the bumps and pain my journey will have but ultimately I will find happiness.  

Love the path you are taking for yourself.  Sounds excitIng, happy for you.


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## dayooper (Jul 6, 2020)

Not to hijack the thread, but while I don’t always see eye to eye with you on certain political topics, @Cornell I have always admired your dedication to your daughter. It’s not easy raising kids as a couple, but being a single parent is even more difficult. Hopefully you two have created a special bond that will last beyond your time raising her!


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## Cornell (Jul 6, 2020)

dayooper said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but while I don’t always see eye to eye with you on certain political topics, @Cornell I have always admired your dedication to your daughter. It’s not easy raising kids as a couple, but being a single parent is even more difficult. Hopefully you two have created a special bond that will last beyond your time raising her!


Awe. Thank you. Your comment just caught my eye as you mentioned you are an educator. My daughter has particularly had wonderful teachers in HS. I feel sick when I think about all of the work & challenges teachers and administrators will have this year. Especially since the “situation” is so fluid .


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## dayooper (Jul 6, 2020)

Cornell said:


> Awe. Thank you. Your comment just caught my eye as you mentioned you are an educator. My daughter has particularly had wonderful teachers in HS. I feel sick when I think about all of the work & challenges teachers and administrators will have this year. Especially since the “situation” is so fluid .



It will be hard changing everything and understanding it could just change again in an instant. The worst part, at least for me, is not being a part of my students and athletes lives. I love the mentor aspect of my job and hopefully I will still be able to teach in person. My classroom will be set up so different and my teaching style will have to adjust, but it’s all for the kids.


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## klpca (Jul 6, 2020)

I wish you only the best. I'm sorry that things didn't work out.


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## geist1223 (Jul 6, 2020)

So if you are ever out in Oregon drop in for a glass of wine or something stronger on the front porch or out back in the "Teahouse."


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## Talent312 (Jul 7, 2020)

BTW, it's also natural to allow for a bit of anger+bitterness.

At one point, my ex said, "My flying lessons were a metaphor for flying away from you." I could'a just said, "How nice,"but instead said that one day her friends+family would find out who she really was, and whatever she was flying would crash+burn.  ... _It was cathartic.

._


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## dmbrand (Jul 7, 2020)

Hugs to you. By reaching out for care and support, you already know what is beneficial for you to get through this. I envy your ability to share; it is a true survival skill.


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## Panina (Jul 7, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> BTW, it's also natural to allow for a bit of anger+bitterness.
> 
> At one point, my ex said, "My flying lessons were a metaphor for flying away from you." I could'a just said, "How nice,"but instead said that one day her friends+family would find out who she really was, and whatever she was flying would crash+burn.  ... _It was cathartic.
> 
> ._


Yes, do expect it at some point especially if it doesn’t stay amicable and with him I cannot be sure it will though I hope.  This has been a process for me to get to so many feelings have already been experienced so hoping the worse  is behind me but mentally prepared if not.


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## Panina (Jul 7, 2020)

dmbrand said:


> Hugs to you. By reaching out for care and support, you already know what is beneficial for you to get through this. I envy your ability to share; it is a true survival skill.


I think through my  age I gained wisdom. Hiding the truth from others and bottling in I knew would serve me  no purpose. Moving forward needs acknowledgment and the support of friends.


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## CPNY (Jul 7, 2020)

sending you positive vibes!


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## CanuckTravlr (Jul 7, 2020)

Panina said:


> You hit it.  I always said I was brought into his life not for him, as he needs no one, but for his daughters sake.  I truly believe that was my purpose.  All my life my purpose was for others.  Now it is my time.



Panina, the break-up of a relationship is never easy nor fun, but sometimes it just must happen for everyone's ultimate sanity.  The quote above says so much about your nature and character.  It also says that you will be fine, it will just take some time.  You are strong, intelligent, compassionate and caring, with lots of common sense and decency.  That has always come through loud and clear on here with your comments and advice.

That you prefer to keep it amicable for the sake of your step-daughter, reinforces all of that.  Even if it is ultimately not possible, the goal is laudable.  Hang in there.  There will be tears, but also lots of laughs ahead.  I am sure it will be a bit of a roller coaster, made all the more difficult by being in the middle of a pandemic.  But you will get through this and I am sure there is already a load lifted from your shoulders.  Know that all of us here on TUG are behind you and if you need some help at any time, there are many lined up to help, including myself.

In the meantime, lots of hugs, kisses and cheers to get you started on your new journey!!!


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## Fredflintstone (Jul 7, 2020)

Panini, I am sorry. Separation/divorce is always hard. I know, been through it 4 years ago. I am glad it’s going to be amicable. You are a good person and who knows...one day someone very special may enter your life. I learned something very important when I divorced. I learned I always have me, myself and I. I actually found out that me, myself and I are pretty good! I would have not realized that without a divorce frankly. You have been through a lot with relationships (the passing of your husband) and pulled through better, stronger than before. You will again. 

God Bless you. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## VacationForever (Jul 7, 2020)

Panina said:


> I think through my  age I gained wisdom. Hiding the truth from others and bottling in I knew would serve me  no purpose. Moving forward needs acknowledgment and the support of friends.


Smart woman!  When I divorced, I cut off communications with my friends.  I think that is because I grew up in a society that it is shameful to have a divorce.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 7, 2020)

When friends and family separate from their significant others, especially when they have lost someone in death who was probably their true soul mate, as you did, I think about the line from Sleepless in Seattle, when Sam is talking to the radio talk-show therapist:  “I'm gonna get out of bed every morning … breathe in and out all day long. Then after a while, I won't have to remind myself to get out of bed every morning and breathe in and out. *And then after a while, I won't have to think about how I had it great and perfect for a while.”  *

One of my all-time favorite movies.  That last line gets me every time.  It makes me grateful.  So sorry you lost your first husband so tragically.


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## geekette (Jul 7, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> BTW, it's also natural to allow for a bit of anger+bitterness.
> 
> At one point, my ex said, "My flying lessons were a metaphor for flying away from you." I could'a just said, "How nice,"but instead said that one day her friends+family would find out who she really was, and whatever she was flying would crash+burn.  ... _It was cathartic.
> 
> ._


yeah, my ex went around talking nonsense about me.  I did nothing to correct the record.   Let him think whatever he wants, if it gets him healed.  The reality is that I was alone in my marriage.   He wanted to spend all his time with his hobbies, not me.  It was a problem of long standing, I brought it up to no avail repeatedly, until I gave up and decided I was happier without him.   Not sure how it was any mystery that I fell out of love with him.  Relationships require nurturing.   he can go to his grave believing that I was the big problem.   No skin off my butt.   I don't care what his friends believe of me, but his talking about our private lives was yet another notch of doom.  He knew that, too, and did it anyway.   I told him to take anything he wanted and get out, I'm keeping the house and the dog.


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## geekette (Jul 7, 2020)

Panina said:


> Yes, do expect it at some point especially if it doesn’t stay amicable and with him I cannot be sure it will though I hope.  This has been a process for me to get to so many feelings have already been experienced so hoping the worse  is behind me but mentally prepared if not.


If it goes in a negative direction, you have the power to bring it back.  Neither of you are failures, it's just the relationship that failed.  It's nobody's fault, you can say that as many times as necessary.   We agreed to "be nice", no matter what.  His best friend was urging him to get a lawyer, but he listened to me instead.   "So, you want to send our entire checking and savings accounts to lawyers? Why?  What are they going to do for us that we can't do for ourselves, except inject animosity?  Once there are lawyers, we can't talk to each other."


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## geekette (Jul 7, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Smart woman!  When I divorced, I cut off communications with my friends.  I think that is because I grew up in a society that it is shameful to have a divorce.


Ugh.  I stayed too long for same reasons.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 7, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Smart woman!  When I divorced, I cut off communications with my friends.


I too am going to suggest this was a wise idea.  Why leave or maintain reminders of what was as part of your life when you have decided that same part of your life needs to go?


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## Luanne (Jul 7, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> I too am going to suggest this was a wise idea.  Why leave or maintain reminders of what was as part of your life when you have decided that same part of your life needs to go?


When my ex and I divorced my bil told me that even though I was divorcing the ex, he wasn't.  He expected them to remain friends. That was fine with me.  I had moved to a different part of the state and didn't see any of them.  AND.....since my bil and sister were still friends with my ex I got to hear all the dirt about him, lol.


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## Talent312 (Jul 7, 2020)

I stayed too long becuz I didn't want to admit failure, but in the end,
it was my ex who pulled the plug. I think she did us both a favor.
The bath water had long gone cold.


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## Panina (Jul 7, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> I too am going to suggest this was a wise idea.  Why leave or maintain reminders of what was as part of your life when you have decided that same part of your life needs to go?


Because good friends are hard to find.  When separating no need to lose everything, keep the good.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 7, 2020)

Panina said:


> Because good friends are hard to find.  When separating no need to lose everything, keep the good.


I understand the point @Panina and everyone must find what works for them.  (At least from my perspective) There are some things my mental psyche is better off with constant reminders of 'what was'.  But yes, we each must find our way.


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## Panina (Jul 7, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> I stayed too long becuz I didn't want to admit failure, but in the end,
> it was my ex who pulled the plug. I think she did us both a favor.
> The bath water had long gone cold.


This is probably the same for many of us.  I pulled the plug but I believe he thought he was doing me a favor staying, not.  He really believes He would be fine without me and that I could not be on my own and would fall apart.  Shows he really didn’t know me at all.


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## Panina (Jul 7, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> I understand the point @Panina and everyone must find what works for them.  (At least from my perspective) There are some things my mental psyche is better off with constant reminders of 'what was'.  But yes, we each must find our way.


I have a step daughter so what was cannot go away.  I understand the psyche part.  That is why I am highly considering moving out of state.


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## geekette (Jul 7, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> I understand the point @Panina and everyone must find what works for them.  (At least from my perspective) There are some things my mental psyche is better off with constant reminders of 'what was'.  But yes, we each must find our way.


I think the two of you are talking oranges and apples.  

I kept everyone that I brought into the relationship, have not spoken since to friends he brought to the marriage.  It's not that they are reminders of anything, it's that they are His People.  Aside from his needing them, I didn't, and some were a bit exhausting, or toxic, for me.  Making it easier to go complete radio silence.  I also didn't want him periodically hearing about me from anyone.  Just this past Christmas, a card from one of them wanting to reconnect.  She was the biggest energy vampire so I lost that card with her phone number on it fast.

I don't have problems with reminders of the past, happy or sad.  Memories are what I have, and I'm not deleting nor avoiding any of them.  

When my bro's wife left him (out of the blue, 3 days before Christmas), she went around to their friends and told them they had to choose sides!  Some DID!   She was always a bit nuts, but his friends...!?   Those that chose her over him, seems to me to be their loss.  But, I cannot quite convey the extra ways in which she tried to completely crush him and had some success at it (he's never quite been the same).  She was a cheater, he knew that when he married her, cuz she'd already done it to him.  But the needless level of Mean was uncalled for, even if it had been him doing the cheating.  Good riddance.  There is zero chance I would ever have anything to do with her again.   Even if he weren't my brother, people that try to ruin other people, aren't my kind of people.   After all, he was an asshole when she married him.  they both knew what they were getting.  

Maturity is a good thing, that should prevent childish vengeance.  Nobody needs to make things harder than they are already.   If that started happening, I would confront it directly.   Try to get it back to civil, if not friendly.   We kept saying, we had good times, this worked for a long time....    it prevented feeling guilt.   I was more worried about his handling it than mine, honestly.


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## geekette (Jul 7, 2020)

Panina said:


> This is probably the same for many of us.  I pulled the plug but I believe he thought he was doing me a favor staying, not.  He really believes He would be fine without me and that I could not be on my own and would fall apart.  Shows he really didn’t know me at all.


fwiw, doesn't sound like anyone here thinks you will fall apart.   

I do know the hurt of realizing, he never knew me.  I'm sorry.  It's a hard pain to contend with, but, you are already channelling it into strength.  Let him believe what he wants.  

From my own experience - men need an intact ego more than they need truth.   It's quite easy for me to let them have their delusions.  The male ego and rampant selfishness is a huge part of my not even wanting to date anymore.  I have seen enough to not be interested in male companionship.   That might change some day, but no time soon.   I look forward to dance studio parties, if ever they can be again.  It's like having multiple dates in one night with no one hitting on me!   It's liberating to not be eyed as a potential conquest.


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## Luanne (Jul 7, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> I understand the point @Panina and everyone must find what works for them.  (At least from my perspective) There are some things my mental psyche is better off with constant reminders of 'what was'.  But yes, we each must find our way.


What helped me the most with my divorce was that I had already moved far away (due to my job).  That move also solidified for me that I was better off without him.  I didn't miss him.  That was a huge telling point.


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## geekette (Jul 7, 2020)

....I didn't miss him.   

I like "signs" like this.


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## VacationForever (Jul 7, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> I too am going to suggest this was a wise idea.  Why leave or maintain reminders of what was as part of your life when you have decided that same part of your life needs to go?


Well, not exactly.  These were my childhood friends and friends in my social circle, long before I got married.


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## Panina (Jul 7, 2020)

geekette said:


> fwiw, doesn't sound like anyone here thinks you will fall apart.
> 
> I do know the hurt of realizing, he never knew me.  I'm sorry.  It's a hard pain to contend with, but, you are already channelling it into strength.  Let him believe what he wants.
> 
> From my own experience - men need an intact ego more than they need truth.   It's quite easy for me to let them have their delusions.  The male ego and rampant selfishness is a huge part of my not even wanting to date anymore.  I have seen enough to not be interested in male companionship.   That might change some day, but no time soon.   I look forward to dance studio parties, if ever they can be again.  It's like having multiple dates in one night with no one hitting on me!   It's liberating to not be eyed as a potential conquest.


Some people need to be right then to be happy.  That can happen with men or women.  Not everyone has an ego and is selfish.  

I dated when I was young and then again in my late 40’s.  Lots of bad apples but It only takes one to make it right.  It does seem a little scarier now.  Maybe I am optimistic because of how great my relationship was with my deceased husband.

I am very capable of being on my own happily but I love the companionship of a partner.  I believe there are good people out there.


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## nerodog (Jul 7, 2020)

Hello from over the ocean with lots of wishes, support and faith sailing along to your door. It's a tough one  and it's not just separating  from your partner  but the family. It is a series of loss and I found each was a different  pace.. Honesty  and taking time to still communicate  is key  to make an unhappy  situation  into a new and positive.  My thoughts are with you. Big hug


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## bbodb1 (Jul 7, 2020)

Panina said:


> I have a step daughter so what was cannot go away.  I understand the psyche part.  That is why I am highly considering moving out of state.


By the way, there is a point I want to make on this that I do not want to get lost in the midst of coversation - full marks to you Panina for wanting to continue your relationship with your step daughter.  That is most admirable.


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## Cornell (Jul 7, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> By the way, there is a point I want to make on this that I do not want to get lost in the midst of coversation - full marks to you Panina for wanting to continue your relationship with your step daughter.  That is most admirable.


Could not agree more.  My heart was full when I read that.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 7, 2020)

VacationForever said:


> Well, not exactly.  These were my childhood friends and friends in my social circle, long before I got married.


This is illustrating the point I was trying to make (and I did not do the best I could with the point)...
Your attachment to these friends was not exclusively made through (as a result of) your relationship with the person who eventually became your spouse.  You have a history, an investment if you will, with these friends that has its own (independent) roots.  Those type of friendships (literally life long - or pretty near) have separate roots from your marriage and can offer (if you desire) independent support in times where you need it and are not necessarily aligned with feelings and memories you may be trying to move on from.  

I have to admit that I am basing much of this feeling from being on the other end of this if you will.  That is to say both the wife and I used to work in a place where marriages and divorces seemed to occur at hauntingly similar rates.  In many cases, the couple the work place helped bring together also seemed to play a role in tearing them apart.  It was difficult to see one of the previous couple and know how to be supportive in a manner for both of them.  As I think back to the individuals who become couples (and later become separated or divorced), any conversation was akin to walking on eggshells because I wanted to stay out of the middle (not taking sides) while trying to let them guide where a conversation needed to go.  

Strangely enough, the first time I can recall having such a feeling, I had just seen _A River Runs Through It_ and the scene were Tom Skerritt offers this sermon comes to mind:


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## geekette (Jul 7, 2020)

Panina said:


> Some people need to be right then to be happy.  That can happen with men or women.  Not everyone has an ego and is selfish.
> 
> I dated when I was young and then again in my late 40’s.  Lots of bad apples but It only takes one to make it right.  It does seem a little scarier now.  Maybe I am optimistic because of how great my relationship was with my deceased husband.
> 
> I am very capable of being on my own happily but I love the companionship of a partner.  I believe there are good people out there.


Don't get me wrong, I believe there are good people out there.   I was married to one.  Early on, he cared about my happiness and feelings.   He just ended up preferring to live single while married without regard to the other person in the house.  I have no universal truths, just my own experience.  Others that I have dated, it's like great behavior early, but it's not real, and eventually I find the turd in the punch bowl.  I now have experience with gaslighters, telling me it's candy...  

I'm certain that decent gentlemen without scary hangups exist out there, and some might even be single and age-appropriate.  I no longer believe there is a good one For Me, and I have more interesting things to do than survey the ranks.  I actually like being alone, so this isn't a problem.   I am definitely not seeking a man, and don't seem to pick the right ones, anyhow.   I reserve the right to change my mind, but it is unlikely.  

A friend of mine that cannot handle being alone doesn't understand that mindset, but the friend that hasn't dated in 10 years understands it fully.  Neither of us understand "boy crazy" at our ages (I was never boy crazy even when young, and I doubt she was, either), neither of us are likely to ever try internet dating.  We just aren't interested, preferring to live our lives to suit ourselves.  

I don't think everyone was meant to be part of a couple.  Some of us are much better off uncoupled.  Some of us take too long to discover this about ourselves.


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## Panina (Jul 7, 2020)

geekette said:


> Don't get me wrong, I believe there are good people out there.   I was married to one.  Early on, he cared about my happiness and feelings.   He just ended up preferring to live single while married without regard to the other person in the house.  I have no universal truths, just my own experience.  Others that I have dated, it's like great behavior early, but it's not real, and eventually I find the turd in the punch bowl.  I now have experience with gaslighters, telling me it's candy...
> 
> I'm certain that decent gentlemen without scary hangups exist out there, and some might even be single and age-appropriate.  I no longer believe there is a good one For Me, and I have more interesting things to do than survey the ranks.  I actually like being alone, so this isn't a problem.   I am definitely not seeking a man, and don't seem to pick the right ones, anyhow.   I reserve the right to change my mind, but it is unlikely.
> 
> ...


Finding what is best for ourselves many find hard to do.  It is obvious you have and that in itself is beautiful


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## Panina (Jul 7, 2020)

I hope everyone is coming back to this thread to read this. I just want to share this so much. I had a load of tears this afternoon, very happy ones.

I was on the phone with my step daughter today for an hour and a half.  What she told me was such a gift. She told me she loved me and knows everything I did for her I didn’t have to.  That she was an empty girl when I came into her life and I never gave up and filled her up.  That I always believe in her when no one else did even herself.  That I am an important part of her life that she wants that to continue.

So much more was said,  my little girl is maturing into a wonderful young lady.  I am so proud of her and you know I told her so.  

Truthfully I was so afraid that she would cut things off with me because her mom dislikes me.  You would have thought I broke up their marriage even though I met him 5 years after their divorce.  She left him for another man and always used my step daughter as a pawn.  I was afraid she would do that now too, guilting her.  It didn’t take 5 minutes once she found out we were splitting for his ex wife to start hitting on him and she is still living with the person she left him for.  I warned him it would happen as she smells money, he told me I was wrong and then he came to tell me I was right in amazement.


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## normab (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi Panina,

I only saw this thread today.  Having gone through a divorce years ago, I know how hard it is, even when you know it’s for the best.

So I am happy for you, but also know it’s a tough decision to make, and even after you make it, you still have lots of emotions to deal with.

I am sending you hugs and encouragement for the days you need it.  Be good to yourself.   Good luck with all the decisions you will have to make....and just remember, no decision is wrong.  You can always change your mind and do something different.

Norma


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## geist1223 (Jul 7, 2020)

I really can not find the words to say how happy I am for the two of you.


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## geekette (Jul 7, 2020)

"just remember, no decision is wrong.  You can always change your mind and do something different. "



needed its own post


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## bbodb1 (Jul 7, 2020)

geekette said:


> "just remember, no decision is wrong.  You can always change your mind and do something different. "



Okay, we need to end the day with a similar (sort of) reminder:


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## Panina (Jul 8, 2020)

I want to thank you all for your support and kind words.  You blew me away.  Tuggers are an incredible group and I am so fortunate to be part of it


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## bbodb1 (Jul 8, 2020)

Hey, now - I sense some piling on here!


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## Cornell (Jul 8, 2020)

@bbodb1 THAT made me laugh... something we all need more of these days


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## mav (Jul 9, 2020)

I had a feeling your step daughter had a lot of love for you, you seem to be a very kind and dear person. You will be fine and better off without him. You will have peace, contentment and lots of love in your life. At some point you and your "step" daughter may take a some  trips together, have tons of mother daughter fun, and she will keep you young and with your young attitude  that won't be hard.


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## bogey21 (Jul 9, 2020)

geekette said:


> men need an intact ego more than they need truth.



I find this insulting. I would have been OK with it if you had said "some men"...

George


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## 5finny (Jul 9, 2020)

Panina,
I see you are thinking of moving out of State.
Have you considered perhaps your true destiny is to just timeshare 52 weeks a year


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## Panina (Jul 9, 2020)

5finny said:


> Panina,
> I see you are thinking of moving out of State.
> Have you considered perhaps your true destiny is to just timeshare 52 weeks a year


As tempting as that sounds, I am a person who likes a home base with close friends near me.


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## elaine (Jul 9, 2020)

Panina said:


> She told me she loved me and knows everything I did for her I didn’t have to. That she was an empty girl when I came into her life and I never gave up and filled her up. That I always believe in her when no one else did even herself.


You made a lifelong impact on your DSD. You can always be proud of your selflessness (including moving to a neighborhood for her needs). A very GOOD thing that came our of those 10 years.
I'm glad that you have the wonderful memory of your 1st marriage, to have had that love that will be with you always. All men are not selfish--I'm married to one the the "not" ones.


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## geekette (Jul 9, 2020)

bogey21 said:


> I find this insulting. I would have been OK with it if you had said "some men"...
> 
> George


I said it was 'in my experience' which is, by definition, some men.   Few, even.  But I definitely could have worded it better.   I wouldn't feel comfortable posting the list, but I do have in mind a subset of mankind.

I am sorry for insulting you.  I find you to be a man of outstanding character, wisdom, and generosity.   I was most definitely NOT talking about you.


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## Panina (Jul 9, 2020)

elaine said:


> You made a lifelong impact on your DSD. You can always be proud of your selflessness (including moving to a neighborhood for her needs). A very GOOD thing that came our of those 10 years.
> I'm glad that you have the wonderful memory of your 1st marriage, to have had that love that will be with you always. All men are not selfish--I'm married to one the the "not" ones.


I was a lucky girl to have the love I had with my first husband.  You are right it will always be with me and the memory is a gift.  

There has to be someone out there that has room in their heart like me to have love again in their life.  When two people click it is amazing.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 9, 2020)

Panina said:


> I was a lucky girl to have the love I had with my first husband.  You are right it will always be with me and the memory is a gift.
> 
> There has to be someone out there that has room in their heart like me to have love again in their life.  When two people click it is amazing.



@Panina - _may you soon be singing the songs of *Grease *again very soon!_


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## silentg (Jul 9, 2020)

Sorry things didn’t work out but you have a good attitude about it. This pandemic has been stressful. Do you both own timeshares together? Will you split them or are you the one who wants to travel? Perhaps step daughter will join you on some timeshare vacations? Best to you and safe travels.
Silentg


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## Talent312 (Jul 9, 2020)

geekette said:


> ... From my own experience - men need an intact ego more than they need truth.   It's quite easy for me to let them have their delusions.  The male ego and rampant selfishness is a huge part of my not even wanting to date anymore...



As man, I can actually agree with this. In fact, it was me. However...
I think it is also applies to women, or rather "some" whom I have known.
The need for reassurance and self-gratification is not confined to either gender.
I'm sure that some can rise above "what's in it for me," but IDK them.
.


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## Panina (Jul 9, 2020)

silentg said:


> Sorry things didn’t work out but you have a good attitude about it. This pandemic has been stressful. Do you both own timeshares together? Will you split them or are you the one who wants to travel? Perhaps step daughter will join you on some timeshare vacations? Best to you and safe travels.
> Silentg


The pandemic didn’t cause this. It just might have sped it up.  

As of right now he wants the Key West timeshares and me some of the Marco Island ones.  That will leave a few Marco Island (some HGVC), my New Years week HGVC Hutchinson  Island, and three beloved 2 at Chetola in NC and one in Jade Tree in Myrtle Beach to find new homes for.  If I go to Florida I prefer to keep Florida to NC.  I have to decide if I will keep my HGVC Myrtle 8400 points.


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## Bailey#1 (Jul 9, 2020)

Panina said:


> The pandemic didn’t cause this. It just might have sped it up.
> 
> As of right now he wants the Key West timeshares and me some of the Marco Island ones.  That will leave a few Marco Island (some HGVC), my New Years week HGVC Hutchinson  Island, and three beloved 2 at Chetola in NC and one in Jade Tree in Myrtle Beach to find new homes for.  If I go to Florida I prefer to keep Florida to NC.  I have to decide if I will keep my HGVC Myrtle 8400 points.



Twenty years ago when I was going thru what you are going thru now, music would soothe my soul.
Here is a good song for you by Van Morrison, "Days like this".


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## Talent312 (Jul 9, 2020)

I spent time with "Changes" (90125) and other songs by Yes.
Perhaps a bit depressing, but it fed my soul.
----------------
I'm moving through some changes
I'll never be the same
Something you did touched me
There's no one else to blame
The love we had has fallen
The love we used to share
We've given up pretending
As if you didn't care

Change changing places
Root yourself to the ground
Capitalize on this good fortune
One word can bring you round
Changes ...


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## Sugarcubesea (Jul 9, 2020)

Panina, Do you get to keep the timeshares?


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## bbodb1 (Jul 9, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> I spent time with "Changes" (90125) and other songs by Yes.
> Perhaps a bit depressing, but it fed my soul.
> ----------------
> I'm moving through some changes
> ...


You mean you skipped these (this) Changes????


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## Panina (Jul 9, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> Panina, Do you get to keep the timeshares?


My previous post ( three posts prior to this one) shows how we are thinking of splitting them.  I am having second thoughts.  The Key West ones are worth a bit, I would get the short end.


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## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2020)

Panina said:


> My previous post ( three posts prior to this one) shows how we are thinking of splitting them.  I am having second thoughts.  The Key West ones are worth a bit, I would get the short end.



I thought you loved Marco Island. Are you keeping that one?

Are you thinking of moving out of state? I thought you loved your 55+ community.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jul 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> My previous post ( three posts prior to this one) shows how we are thinking of splitting them.  I am having second thoughts.  The Key West ones are worth a bit, I would get the short end.



I would keep the Key West Timeshares as I agree they are worth more money. Every since you talked up Marco Island, I have now visited twice on my visits and I'm now in love with Marco as well...This will be hard to decide who get to keep what...


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## bogey21 (Jul 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> My previous post ( three posts prior to this one) shows how we are thinking of splitting them.  I am having second thoughts.  The Key West ones are worth a bit, I would get the short end.


I got divorced twice.   I allowed myself to get the "short end" both times.  The payoff is that I am still good friends with both ex wives.  For me that made it worthwhile.  Now, if one is talking huge dollars, I might look at it differently...

George


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## Panina (Jul 10, 2020)

TravelTime said:


> I thought you loved Marco Island. Are you keeping that one?
> 
> Are you thinking of moving out of state? I thought you loved your 55+ community.


Not all, just a few.  I will be getting rid of some of my Marco.  

I am thinking of moving to Florida.  I love where I live, love my house but breakup is hard enough.  With both of us in the same town, and knowing him, he will keep asking and expecting  favors.  Even now as we are living in the same house he expects me to do things as we are “friends“.  It is unbelievable but reality.  If it was both ways maybe it would be easier but it is not.   I can just see him getting annoyed and angry when I cannot help and ultimately it can effect my relationship with my step daughter if we do not stay on good terms..  

Staying friends out of state will be easier.  Out of state I only have to deal with his phone calls and possibly seeing him if he comes to Florida on vacation with his daughter.   Even though we both want this,  I am not naive, I know how hard emotionally this will be.  Knowing myself a fresh start in a new place will be best.  Sad because I love where I am but I do believe it is absolutely necessary for me to move on.

Can it change? Possibly if he decides to move far enough away.  But my nagging gut tells me I will be first to leave this house and he might end up living here permanently, the house and neighborhood I love.  How ironic.


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## Panina (Jul 10, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I would keep the Key West Timeshares as I agree they are worth more money. Every since you talked up Marco Island, I have now visited twice on my visits and I'm now in love with Marco as well...This will be hard to decide who get to keep what...





bogey21 said:


> I got divorced twice.   I allowed myself to get the "short end" both times.  The payoff is that I am still good friends with both ex wives.  For me that made it worthwhile.  Now, if one is talking huge dollars, I might look at it differently...
> 
> George


@bogey21 has a good point.  Thinking even if I end up with the short end It just might be easier in all aspects.


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## geekette (Jul 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> @bogey21 has a good point.  Thinking even if I end up with the short end It just might be easier in all aspects.


I also took short end.  My thinking was, I'd rather he appreciate my generosity than force him into hard circumstances and resent me.  It's only money.  I made more.


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## TravelTime (Jul 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> Not all, just a few.  I will be getting rid of some of my Marco.
> 
> I am thinking of moving to Florida.  I love where I live, love my house but breakup is hard enough.  With both of us in the same town, and knowing him, he will keep asking and expecting  favors.  Even now as we are living in the same house he expects me to do things as we are “friends“.  It is unbelievable but reality.  If it was both ways maybe it would be easier but it is not.   I can just see him getting annoyed and angry when I cannot help and ultimately it can effect my relationship with my step daughter if we do not stay on good terms..
> 
> ...



Hi @Panina This sounds hard on you emotionally. I am so sorry you have to leave the home and community you love. I hope things will work themselves out and you can stay if you want. You are a positive and kind person. You will get through this. You have many friends on TUG who support you. Sending you hugs and best wishes as you work through this difficult chapter of your life.


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## WalnutBaron (Jul 10, 2020)

@Panina , I am joining this thread quite late as I don't sign on as much as I used to because so many of the discussions related to COVID had become predictably and insistently political. In any case, I am just learning of your very difficult change of life late in life, and my heart is heavy for you--not just in the changes you face, but for how you have silently suffered for probably many years while presenting such a positive and kind presence to all of us here.

Your act of sharing something so personal with a group of people you've never met (perhaps with a couple of exceptions) is nothing short of courageous. As the next months and years unfold--and assuming you keep the window open to us--you'll be allowing us to walk this difficult path with you, to grieve with you, celebrate with you, and ponder with you the many twists and turns that lie ahead. I hate that you're probably going to be forced to move out of a town and neighborhood you've found so welcoming. I hate that you are doing so because your husband is so self-absorbed. And yes, I am thrilled that you and your stepdaughter will continue to share the kind of beautiful mentoring relationship you've built with her over the past ten years. 

Ultimately, I'll say what I'm pretty sure we all feel: you're a lovely, vibrant, generous, kind-hearted, wise woman. And since you still hope to find someone who will give you the kind of love, support, companionship and friendship you had with your first husband before he passed away, I fondly hope you will find him whenever the time is right.


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## Panina (Jul 10, 2020)

WalnutBaron said:


> @Panina , I am joining this thread quite late as I don't sign on as much as I used to because so many of the discussions related to COVID had become predictably and insistently political. In any case, I am just learning of your very difficult change of life late in life, and my heart is heavy for you--not just in the changes you face, but for how you have silently suffered for probably many years while presenting such a positive and kind presence to all of us here.
> 
> Your act of sharing something so personal with a group of people you've never met (perhaps with a couple of exceptions) is nothing short of courageous. As the next months and years unfold--and assuming you keep the window open to us--you'll be allowing us to walk this difficult path with you, to grieve with you, celebrate with you, and ponder with you the many twists and turns that lie ahead. I hate that you're probably going to be forced to move out of a town and neighborhood you've found so welcoming. I hate that you are doing so because your husband is so self-absorbed. And yes, I am thrilled that you and your stepdaughter will continue to share the kind of beautiful mentoring relationship you've built with her over the past ten years.
> 
> Ultimately, I'll say what I'm pretty sure we all feel: you're a lovely, vibrant, generous, kind-hearted, wise woman. And since you still hope to find someone who will give you the kind of love, support, companionship and friendship you had with your first husband before he passed away, I fondly hope you will find him whenever the time is right.


My heart is touched with the outpouring kindness you have given me as other tuggers have too.  

I will keep posting my journey.  The input and support  I get from others here is so valuable.   More importantly, if it can help one other Tugger In the future it is worth it.  Often people are reluctant to share a breakup.  There is nothing to be ashamed of.  There is nothing to hide.  Difficult journeys are best when you have a network.


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## Talent312 (Jul 10, 2020)

My ex and I split things close to 50-50, and sold off any big ticket items.
She shorted herself by not asking for half of my future (eventual) pension.
But I didn't offer, either.


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## elaine (Jul 10, 2020)

DH took the short stick in his prior marriage. I knew he'd always be a decent guy no matter what. 
I explain to DD19 that TUG is more than talking about TS. We've encouraged some to follow their dreams, shared our happiness, sought and received tons of advice about everything from handling sticky family situations to renovating a kitchen, and helped other thru tough spots. 
Panina, hugs to you. Elaine


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## rickandcindy23 (Jul 10, 2020)

Panina said:


> I hope everyone is coming back to this thread to read this. I just want to share this so much. I had a load of tears this afternoon, very happy ones.
> 
> I was on the phone with my step daughter today for an hour and a half.  What she told me was such a gift. She told me she loved me and knows everything I did for her I didn’t have to.  That she was an empty girl when I came into her life and I never gave up and filled her up.  That I always believe in her when no one else did even herself.  That I am an important part of her life that she wants that to continue.
> 
> ...


Oh, that is so wonderful.  Making a difference in childrens' lives, that is so important for all of us as parents and step parents.  Your stepdaughter sounds like a lovely, mature young woman.  You are blessed.  

Your husband was a lucky man.  He won't realize how great he had it until you are gone.


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## Panina (Jul 10, 2020)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Oh, that is so wonderful.  Making a difference in childrens' lives, that is so important for all of us as parents and step parents.  Your stepdaughter sounds like a lovely, mature young woman.  You are blessed.
> 
> Your husband was a lucky man.  He won't realize how great he had it until you are gone.


Not sure he will and It really doesn’t matter.   My life will be right once I move on.  The sooner, the better, this darn virus.   I do wish him well, just had enough.


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## Panina (Jul 13, 2020)

Last night I went to see my Step daughter, of course with her father.  It was socially distant, outside, with masks as she works in a supermarket and sees friends.  

Her eyes were twinkling when she described what she was excited about even with  the mask on.  

This visit just affirmed why I was in her fathers life, for her.  He was so excited to go see her but as she and I were talking he hardly participated and when he did he cut her off, which she hates.   He was engaged in his phone with music playing with his daughter asking him to turn it down saying it was annoying.  

It was great seeing her and we planned another visit in two weeks before she leaves for college.


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## bbodb1 (Jul 13, 2020)

Why is it all too often the case people find themselves in places they don't want to be (and do not have to be) and then they act like turds in a punch bowl?  (Sorry for that imagery, but it works best on a Monday..)   If you didn't want to go in the first place, don't go.  If you'd have more fun or be more comfortable someplace else, then go there. 

Why do humans have such a tough time with this?


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## b2bailey (Jul 13, 2020)

Talent312 said:


> The bath water had long gone cold.



First time hearing this expression.
To expand, water is cold -- and no way to warm it.


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## geekette (Jul 13, 2020)

b2bailey said:


> First time hearing this expression.
> To expand, water is cold -- and no way to warm it.


One could add more hot water, but, gotta be careful with that...


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## b2bailey (Jul 13, 2020)

geekette said:


> One could add more hot water, but, gotta be careful with that...


Being a bath-taker, I was speaking of the point when the faucet no longer produces additional hot water. (That's how long I stayed in a bad marriage.)


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## Panina (Jul 13, 2020)

b2bailey said:


> Being a bath-taker, I was speaking of the point when the faucet no longer produces additional hot water. (That's how long I stayed in a bad marriage.)


I am definitely not staying, the hot water is gone but definitely doing this as amicably as possible.  

Right now we get better along As friends.  Our paths cross A little as our schedules and patterns are different. We help each other if needed.  

This pandemic just makes me moving to Florida now too risky, yes I decided I am going to Florida for a new start, and he is a procrastinator so my guess  he will end up buying me out which he said he would do if I am first to go.

Is this ideal, no, but at least it decided.  

We walked the house and decided who will take what.  He didn’t see the rush because he feels it is months out but I told him I need to know so I can plan.

Now the timeshares, he wanted all 5 of Key West.  I am now asking for two.  They have monetary value.  Initially He was upset said he wanted them.  Now will split based  on value.  We should decide by next week and then the rest will be listed as freebies on TUG


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## bbodb1 (Jul 13, 2020)

Panina said:


> This pandemic just makes me moving to Florida now too risky, yes I decided I am going to Florida for a new start..



Good luck with this, @Panina - I don't want to derail here too much but this post reminded me about how much this crisis is likely to impact the selection of future retirement destinations.  
I know in our case, what just changed was an *increase* to the minimum distance to any large city. I suspect many folks are revising the criteria for their ideal retirement destination..


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## Panina (Jul 13, 2020)

bbodb1 said:


> Good luck with this, @Panina - I don't want to derail here too much but this post reminded me about how much this crisis is likely to impact the selection of future retirement destinations.
> I know in our case, what just changed was an *increase* to the minimum distance to any large city. I suspect many folks are revising the criteria for their ideal retirement destination..


The township I live in has low numbers  in comparison to other areas. Still I am mostly home only venturing out if absolutely necessary plus outside walks.  

Whereas Florida numbers are much larger if I lived there now the same would be true, only venturing out if absolutely necessary.

I an Looking at total lifestyle when things are good.  With a pandemic risk is all over, whether low or high risk still I would have the same agenda.  Detached home with back yard are musts.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jul 14, 2020)

Panina said:


> The township I live in has low numbers  in comparison to other areas. Still I am mostly home only venturing out if absolutely necessary plus outside walks.
> 
> Whereas Florida numbers are much larger if I lived there now the same would be true, only venturing out if absolutely necessary.
> 
> I an Looking at total lifestyle when things are good.  With a pandemic risk is all over, whether low or high risk still I would have the same agenda.  Detached home with back yard are musts.



I have to say for selfish reasons, I'm glad that you are going to move / retire to FL. I feel my chances greatly improved that we can meet up once COVID-19 is over.


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## Panina (Jul 14, 2020)

Sugarcubesea said:


> I have to say for selfish reasons, I'm glad that you are going to move / retire to FL. I feel my chances greatly improved that we can meet up once COVID-19 is over.


We really won’t be that far from each other.  Can even meet half way or just visit each other for a change of scenery.

Each day I say to myself one day closer.  I want to move on. I must have patience.


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## pedro47 (Jul 14, 2020)

Just be careful and have lots of patience.


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## Sugarcubesea (Jul 14, 2020)

Panina said:


> We really won’t be that far from each other.  Can even meet half way or just visit each other for a change of scenery.
> 
> Each day I say to myself one day closer.  I want to move on. I must have patience.



You are so right, we really won't be that far from each other and I always love getting a change of scenery...I'm so looking forward to this...


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## Panina (Jul 17, 2020)

It just has amazed me what some of my “friends” told me when I let them know about my split.  Whereas all my tugger friends have been supportive I can’t say the same thing about some of my non tugger friends.  Today one of my closest and dearest friends through the years said to me “Did you ever think you can go from the frying pan to the fire.  Where you land can be a lot worse or you can be alone the rest of your life.  Think hard.“   I must admit I was taken aback for a moment.  Then I thought it out and realized why he has been in a miserable marriage all these years, he is afraid of being alone.

Also amazed that my other half told me if I do go to Florida and he buys me out of the house, he will probably continue living in it a few years.  He is still giving me the option to buy him out.  This is from a guy who supposedly hates the neighborhood and back yard.  Now he says it isn’t so bad.  Kind of irks me because after all I put into the house he will reap the benefits when I move.


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## Luanne (Jul 17, 2020)

Panina said:


> It just has amazed me what some of my “friends” told me when I let them know about my split.  Whereas all my tugger friends have been supportive I can’t say the same thing about some of my non tugger friends.  Today one of my closest and dearest friends through the years said to me “Did you ever think you can go from the frying pan to the fire.  Where you land can be a lot worse or you can be alone the rest of your life.  Think hard.“   I must admit I was taken aback for a moment.  Then I thought it out and realized why he has been in a miserable marriage all these years, he is afraid of being alone.
> 
> Also amazed that my other half told me if I do go to Florida and he buys me out of the house, he will probably continue living in it a few years.  He is still giving me the option to buy him out.  This is from a guy who supposedly hates the neighborhood and back yard.  Now he says it isn’t so bad.  Kind of irks me because after all I put into the house he will reap the benefits when I move.


A few things I heard when I decided to separate from husband #1.

From my bil (sister's husband): "I knew you guys weren't going to last."  [Huh?  Never mentioned anything to me. But looking back if he had I probably would have been defensive.]
From my mother: "The two of you never seemed like a family."  [See comment about bil above.]
From husband #1; "I see us ending up back together some day." [Well, we've both remarried and had children in our second marriages.  I almost asked him when he remarried if he still thought we'd get back together, lol.]

About living alone.  My bff, who I lived with for two years after my divorce told me I would hate living alone.  I moved into my own apartment, first time I had ever lived by myself.  I LOVED it!  I only knew second dh was the one was because I didn't mind giving up my space and total independence.


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## Panina (Jul 17, 2020)

Luanne said:


> A few things I heard when I decided to separate from husband #1.
> 
> From my bil (sister's husband): "I knew you guys weren't going to last."  [Huh?  Never mentioned anything to me. But looking back if he had I probably would have been defensive.}
> From my mother: "The two of you never seemed like a family."  [See comment about bil above.]
> ...


I heard all except from husband #1 as we didn’t split, he passed.  My current just said I can come visit you in Florida. REALLY?


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## Luanne (Jul 17, 2020)

Panina said:


> I heard all except from husband #1 as we didn’t split, he passed.  My current just said I can come visit you in Florida. REALLY?


I may have mentioned this already, but my bil and sister remained friends with my ex. That was fine. We lived at different ends of the state so it wasn't like I was going to run into him at their house.  My sister would let me know all the dirt on him, lol. They were invited to his wedding. My ex mil knew my sister and when they went through the receiving line she greeted them like long lost friends.  I guess it was pretty interesting to explain who they were and why they were at the wedding.  But heck, my bil invited his ex-wife to his wedding to my sister.


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## Cornell (Jul 17, 2020)

Panina said:


> It just has amazed me what some of my “friends” told me when I let them know about my split.  Whereas all my tugger friends have been supportive I can’t say the same thing about some of my non tugger friends.  Today one of my closest and dearest friends through the years said to me “Did you ever think you can go from the frying pan to the fire.  Where you land can be a lot worse or you can be alone the rest of your life.  Think hard.“   I must admit I was taken aback for a moment.  Then I thought it out and realized why he has been in a miserable marriage all these years, he is afraid of being alone.
> 
> Also amazed that my other half told me if I do go to Florida and he buys me out of the house, he will probably continue living in it a few years.  He is still giving me the option to buy him out.  This is from a guy who supposedly hates the neighborhood and back yard.  Now he says it isn’t so bad.  Kind of irks me because after all I put into the house he will reap the benefits when I move.


Being in a crappy marriage is often more lonely than being alone.


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## Talent312 (Jul 17, 2020)

Panina said:


> ... My current just said I can come visit you in Florida. REALLY?



That takes the cake, don't it.
After my divorce in 2000, we had one meet up at a bank two months later, and no contact since.

I took to heart this piece of advice from a book on how to handle break-ups:
"Stop driving by your ex's house, especially if it's at the end of a cul-de-sac."
.
.


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## TravelTime (Jul 17, 2020)

It is better not to be in bad relationship. Living alone can be great as long as you have an active life.


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