# Today’s Confusing HRC and Welk Announcement [merged]



## travelguy84

I’m sure many of you have received this email. I would love to hear a better interpretation of this email and its impact on legacy owners like myself who despise the portfolio program.
The email…



Dear Owner: 

I am excited to announce that today, the name of the Welk Resorts Platinum Program will become the newly-branded Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program. With this step, the Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program and its eight boutique properties reach an important milestone in our journey together as part of the Hyatt Vacation Ownership family. 

More than just a name change, we’ll be adding benefits that only a relationship with Hyatt could provide. Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program Owners will enjoy membership in the World of Hyatt®program, similar to the Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program Members today. Beginning with the 2023 Use Year, Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program Owners will be able to exchange for World of Hyatt Bonus Points, and Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program Owners enrolled in the World of Hyatt program are now eligible to earn and redeem World of Hyatt points for eligible ancillary purchases and stays at the Hyatt hotels and resorts around the world.* Participating resorts will be included on hyatt.com.**

How will this affect Hyatt Residence Club?

The Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program and Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program will continue to operate as two distinct point ownership products. As both clubs are affiliated with Interval International®, Hyatt Residence Club Owners may utilize Interval International to complete exchanges with a priority booking window and reduced exchange fee when traveling to the eight properties comprising the Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program. Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program Owners will only be able to access inventory that is deposited with Interval International by Hyatt Residence Club Owners and Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program members. This exchange capability is not expected to impact the volume of Hyatt Residence Club inventory available for your usage. 

I would also like to reiterate that the Hyatt Vacation Ownership leadership team continues to focus on you, our loyal and valued Owners, listening to your feedback and working to improve your experiences. We recognize the uniqueness of your properties, as well as your ownership, and are committed to bringing you the best of vacation choices. As you will see below, we are pleased to announce some initial changes based on your feedback.   

Hyatt Residence Club News and Updates

Since I last wrote, our Hyatt Vacation Ownership leadership team has received a great amount of thoughtful feedback from Owners. The passion of our Owners is evident, 
and we are excited to have this dedicated team in place to listen to and serve you all. 
As a result of this feedback, we are evaluating various aspects of your ownership experience and have implemented changes in two key areas:


First, to understand your concerns and better serve you, our General Manager Forums are returning to your Hyatt Residence Club resorts. We know that Owners have missed these opportunities to get together with the resort managers and fellow Owners, and we look forward to reinstituting these for our Owners to enjoy.  


Also, we have expanded the weekday hours of operation for the Member Services team until 8:00 PM ET, Monday through Friday. Based on your feedback, we understand that the prior hours were too restrictive for our West Coast Owners and believe these expanded hours will help better satisfy Owners’ needs. 

We will continue to take steps to further evaluate ways to enhance your ownership and are committed to making your Hyatt Residence Club ownership even better. 
We appreciate your loyalty, feedback, and ownership. 


Thank you,​










Stephanie Butera
Senior Vice President and Chief Operating Officer
Hyatt Vacation Ownership​


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## Pathways

At 3pm the email came from HRC announcing the official change from Welk to Hyatt, effective today

_'Welk Resorts Platinum Program will become the newly-branded Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program'

With this step, the Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program and its eight boutique properties reach an important milestone in our journey together as part of the Hyatt Vacation Ownership family.  


The Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program and Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program will continue to operate as two distinct point ownership products. _


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## RunCat

Per the email, "Eligible Owners are expected to be able to begin exchanging their Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Points for World of Hyatt points on or before October 1, 2022,"  This is a perk that was not previously available to Welk Owners.  No info on the exchange rate. I suspect it won't be very good. But it is still a nice benefit.


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## ScoopKona

I've only stayed at the Welk Resort in Temecula. I thought the "fit and finish" of that resort was comparable to Hyatt.

Looking at the locations, I think all but the Branson resorts fit with the Hyatt "boutique" philosophy. If it were up to me, I'd jettison Branson (sorry guys, nothing personal -- just that Branson is built-out); and fold the rest into the Hyatt system. I'd gladly trade into Santa Fe at the earliest opportunity.

I just hope that the system is seamless for both Welk and Hyatt owners.


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## Sapper

Pathways said:


> _The Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Program and Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Program will continue to operate as two distinct point ownership products. _



So, what it comes down to is: there is no integration. There is a name change for Welk, and the change only helps to create marketing confusion between the products.


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## Pathways

Sapper said:


> So, what it comes down to is: there is no integration. There is a name change for Welk, and the change only helps to create marketing confusion between the products.


Exactly - The integration is now complete and - 'voila' the integration is the name Hyatt Vacation Club replaces Welk. 

Platinum program / Portfolio program - yes -confusion will ensue.

Cross reservations are only available through Interval for a 'reduced' fee.


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## ScoopKona

This is very disappointing because the Welk/Hyatt "merger" was hardly lopsided. There are a few Welk properties which don't interest me. But I'm sure the Welk owners feel the same way about Hyatt locations.

One of the best things about the Hyatt system is its internal trades. (I don't know how well Welk compares with its internal trades.) If we can't directly access each other's properties, what's the point? (Other than muddying the waters and making "Hyatt" much larger at a stroke.)


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## RunCat

ScoopLV said:


> This is very disappointing because the Welk/Hyatt "merger" was hardly lopsided. There are a few Welk properties which don't interest me. But I'm sure the Welk owners feel the same way about Hyatt locations.
> 
> One of the best things about the Hyatt system is its internal trades. (I don't know how well Welk compares with its internal trades.) If we can't directly access each other's properties, what's the point? (Other than muddying the waters and making "Hyatt" much larger at a stroke.)


FWIW, there are no “internal” trades as it would normally be understood.  The preponderance of Welk ownerships are points attached to an ownership trust. Thus there is not any exchange; only a reservation made with points. It would be best to compare it with Sheraton/Westin Flex except all of the resorts are with one system.   All owners can make a one-week reservation 15 months in advance. Different rules exist for less than a week reservations.  Owners with many points can make reservations earlier than that; albeit from just a subset of the availability.   I think the difference in systems may be a challenge for complete integration


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## ScoopKona

RunCat said:


> FWIW, there are no “internal” trades as it would normally be understood.
> 
> I think the difference in systems may be a challenge for complete integration



If Welk owners would be OK simply going with the Hyatt trade system, a few of us who know the system well could assign Copper-to-Diamond values to each week at each resort. Most people would be happy. And those who aren't still get to keep what they have.

I don't see much grumbling from the Hyatt owners "we have to put up with all these Welk people" and I don't see much grumbling from the Welk owners.

I think mostly, everyone involved would like to access each other's portfolio's. Hyatt's biggest weakness is its lack of diversity. Their biggest strength is the inherently fair system of trading they have.


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## Norcal5

ScoopLV said:


> I've only stayed at the Welk Resort in Temecula. I thought the "fit and finish" of that resort was comparable to Hyatt.
> 
> Looking at the locations, I think all but the Branson resorts fit with the Hyatt "boutique" philosophy. If it were up to me, I'd jettison Branson (sorry guys, nothing personal -- just that Branson is built-out); and fold the rest into the Hyatt system. I'd gladly trade into Santa Fe at the earliest opportunity.
> 
> I just hope that the system is seamless for both Welk and Hyatt owners.



I had been told by another guest at Coconut plantation last year that the Santa Fe wasn’t really with Welk anymore.  I hope they were wrong as I was very interested in staying there too.


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## ScoopKona

Norcal5 said:


> I had been told by another guest at Coconut plantation last year that the Santa Fe wasn’t really with Welk anymore.  I hope they were wrong as I was very interested in staying there too.



It's still listed as part of Welk. I just checked. Whether that is accurate is another matter.






						» El Corazon de Santa Fe
					






					thecollections.welkresorts.com


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## Kal

ScoopLV said:


> It's still listed as part of Welk. I just checked. Whether that is accurate is another matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> » El Corazon de Santa Fe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thecollections.welkresorts.com


It's likely a points resort and therefore not a part of the Interval exchange package.  Of course, how does this new "hybrid sausage" arrangement function for Portfolio owners?  8 resorts line up with the HRC, but what about the others?


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## ScoopKona

Kal said:


> It's likely a points resort and therefore not a part of the Interval exchange package.  Of course, how does this new "hybrid sausage" arrangement function for Portfolio owners?  8 resorts line up with the HRC, but what about the others?



If my last name was Pritzker, and I still owned Hyatt, I'd send a team consisting of a Hyatt reservations exec; a broker (probably from Key West) and an owner (probably you) to each Welk property to assign point-levels. I'd make sure this team was stingy. We can always bump people up later -- nobody ever complains going from Bronze to Gold -- but anything in the other direction would result in mutiny. 

Bam. Every Welk property is now interchangeable with Hyatt. And as any Hyatt owner knows, a Bronze week and 1300 points is plenty to dip a toe in the water. It won't get Christmas in Colorado. But they'll be able to travel.


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## dioxide45

Give it time, Marriott Vacations Worldwide move slow. Very slow.....


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## ScoopKona

dioxide45 said:


> Give it time, Marriott Vacations Worldwide move slow. Very slow.....



Well aware. But Hyatt, back during the Pritzker days, moved just as slow.

We knew about Maui for years before they'd let us talk about it. And there was a section of Hyatt which talked to nobody in sales who basically ran the program -- their word was law. Fine with me. It's a good system. But they were cautious to a fault.


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## mjm1

dioxide45 said:


> Give it time, Marriott Vacations Worldwide move slow. Very slow.....



Yes, I can see where this is a first step so they move things forward. After a couple of years they provide a system that provides for internal exchanges. I actually prefer this over taking forever like the MVC-Vistana program to come. At least there is forward movement.

Best regards.

Mike


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## ivywag

As I read it, it doesn’t affect legacy owners.  The only units that the Hyatt Vacation Platinum Club (Welk) can access are the ones deposited into Interval. Everything else stays the same as it has been between the HPC and the HRC.  The Welk owners are also getting access to World of Hyatt.  Of course, I would expect this all to change down the road. This is most likely only the beginning!


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## mjm1

I agree. I don’t think it changes anything for Hyatt owners other than providing a discounted exchange fee to trade via II into Welk resorts. I also think it is a first step, so they are least providing some forward movement. It wouldn’t surprise me if within a couple years they provide Welk owners with “HRC point equivalents“ and incorporate “enrolled” Welk units into the HRC points exchange system. Time will tell. In the meantime, we will just keep using our Hyatt ownership the way we have been.

Best regards.

Mike


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## alameda94501

RunCat said:


> Per the email, "Eligible Owners are expected to be able to begin exchanging their Hyatt Vacation Club Platinum Points for World of Hyatt points on or before October 1, 2022,"  This is a perk that was not previously available to Welk Owners.  No info on the exchange rate. I suspect it won't be very good. But it is still a nice benefit.



Are "eligible" owners the ones who bought Developer points?  That'd be amazing if Resale Platinum owners could get the World of Hyatt exchange!


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## travelhacker

I was relieved that it keeps the systems separate for now. I'm sure there are Welk resorts that we'd enjoy, but there wasn't anything I'd exchange into immediately and I wasn't looking forward to the increased competition.

I'm sure at some point they will integrate the systems, but I am guessing that it will require a purchase of some sort from the legacy HRC owners as well as Welk owners.


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## CPNY

travelhacker said:


> I was relieved that it keeps the systems separate for now. I'm sure there are Welk resorts that we'd enjoy, but there wasn't anything I'd exchange into immediately and I wasn't looking forward to the increased competition.
> 
> I'm sure at some point they will integrate the systems, but I am guessing that it will require a purchase of some sort from the legacy HRC owners as well as Welk owners.


Lucky….. I wish Sleaziott did the same with Vistana and the DC program


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## travelhacker

CPNY said:


> Lucky….. I wish Sleaziott did the same with Vistana and the DC program


Marriott is too busy screwing Vistana right now. We'll get our turn.


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## CPNY

travelhacker said:


> Marriott is too busy screwing Vistana right now. We'll get our turn.


FACTS…..Or well possibly facts. They have a soft launch of lies and half truths


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## RunCat

alameda94501 said:


> Are "eligible" owners the ones who bought Developer points?  That'd be amazing if Resale Platinum owners could get the World of Hyatt exchange!



Terms/conditions have not been disclosed.  Availability supposedly starts in October.  And if resale qualified, I could see a run on resale points.  I'm considering some myself.


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## Kal

The message is clear that Hyatt is being very careful not to cause issues with the HRC owners.  That's a good thing.  However, if I were a Welk owner, I would not be happy with this structure.  At the onset, a Welk owner would likely believe the buyout would result in a full integration of all Welk properties into the HRC/HPC.  They would have unlimited access to all Hyatt resorts.  What a deal!  So now owners of 8 Welk resorts are in a tiny pool where they hope Hyatt owners will take interest in those properties.  IMHO, there's not much of an incentive for me to even think about tipping my toe in those waters.


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## Kal

ScoopLV said:


> If my last name was Pritzker, and I still owned Hyatt, I'd send a team consisting of a Hyatt reservations exec; a broker (probably from Key West) and an owner (probably you) to each Welk property to assign point-levels. I'd make sure this team was stingy. We can always bump people up later -- nobody ever complains going from Bronze to Gold -- but anything in the other direction would result in mutiny.
> 
> Bam. Every Welk property is now interchangeable with Hyatt. And as any Hyatt owner knows, a Bronze week and 1300 points is plenty to dip a toe in the water. It won't get Christmas in Colorado. But they'll be able to travel.


Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for.  Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers.  Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest.  So now we have Hyatt  punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back.  Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.


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## Mongoose

travelhacker said:


> I was relieved that it keeps the systems separate for now. I'm sure there are Welk resorts that we'd enjoy, but there wasn't anything I'd exchange into immediately and I wasn't looking forward to the increased competition.
> 
> I'm sure at some point they will integrate the systems, but I am guessing that it will require a purchase of some sort from the legacy HRC owners as well as Welk owners.


Agree, it will prevent Welk from diluting HRC availability.  I just thought there would be more access at the 180 or 60 day point.  Heck, this could just be technology delays.


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## Mongoose

Kal said:


> Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for.  Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers.  Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest.  So now we have Hyatt  punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back.  Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.


Let’s remember it’s not really Hyatt anymore, but Marriott.


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## ScoopKona

Mongoose said:


> Let’s remember it’s not rally Hyatt anymore, but Marriott.



But the system is still in place. If that changes, I'm out. I could quitclaim my week and walk away from it and I don't feel it owes me anything. I also don't care about this new "pay for points" scheme they have worked up to wring more money out of people -- as long as they're not minting points out of thin air, my points are worth precisely what they were 15 years ago.

And I don't mind the Welk owners accessing the system as peers. As long as the week/unit assignments are as fair as the Hyatt week/unit assignments have been, that's fine. I don't see competition as much as I see opportunity. Welk has a great many interesting properties. I'd rather go to most of them than Coconut Plantation. 

What I don't want is two Hyatts, with two systems, and loads of confusion. That's "star-bellied Sneeches vs. not-star-bellied" from Dr. Seuss.


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## alameda94501

Kal said:


> Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for.  Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers.  Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest.  So now we have Hyatt  punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back.  Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.



I understand, although besides Welk Northstar (zero availability on Interval International as of yesterday's announcement) I hadn't been excited by the formerly-Welk resorts.  (Luckily our family nabbed Hyatt Northstar for the first time this month!)

The moral of this story is that it really seems hard for Hyatt management to grow their (original) system - HRC or HPC.  Every single time I see the sales people I ask whether there are actual plans to grow the system, as that would give them an incentive.  Every time they say "yes", citing actual locations (last time it was Oregon).  And so every time, I say "Ok, let's see if there's progress next time I'm here."

So far, no progress after Maui (and when was the resort before Maui?)  I don't count expansion of Wild Oak Ranch and Coconut Plantation, especially when those resorts already had many unsold units.

Also luckily, we love their current resorts.  But growth would be nice.


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## ScoopKona

alameda94501 said:


> Every single time I see the sales people I ask whether there are actual plans to grow the system, as that would give them an incentive.  Every time they say "yes", citing actual locations (last time it was Oregon).



When I worked there, being caught saying "yes" was a sure way to get fired. We knew about Maui for years. We weren't allowed to talk about it until ground was broken. When I left, there wasn't even any corporate scuttlebutt about new resorts in the pipeline. Hyatt has land holdings all over the place. But all of these places are in difficult-to-develop areas, apparently.

I agree 100% that the molasses-slow growth of the system is not doing the Hyatt resort brand any favors. I wouldn't want them opening a new resort every year, either. But there must be a happy medium that keeps the system boutique. 

My guess is that after getting the system up and running, the top execs came to the conclusion that timeshares are not the cash cow that renting hotel rooms out every night are -- and they put the entire system on the back burner. Why build a resort that is hard to sell, needs constant marketing, and provides dwindling profits over time? Build a hotel, slap the Hyatt name on the door, and watch guests shove money in their direction every night without having to put them up for free to "see how they like it."


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## ivywag

alameda94501 said:


> Are "eligible" owners the ones who bought Developer points?  That'd be amazing if Resale Platinum owners could get the World of Hyatt exchange!


It’s always been the case that only HRC units purchased from the developer were eligible for the World of Hyatt exchange.  I’m not sure how it works with points, but I think that they, too, must be purchased from the developer for WOH exchange.


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## ivywag

The exchange for WOH isn’t very good anyway.


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## dannybaker

Kal said:


> Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for.  Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers.  Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest.  So now we have Hyatt  punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back.  Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.


Wow we feel so abused, we haven’t heard anything from Welk at this point. We own two two bedroom lock off units. we haven’t even been given a interval account as of today. We already have multiple Marriott weeks with a interval account, all we want to do is exchange both weeks into the Marriott system and we will be happy.


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## RunCat

Kal said:


> The message is clear that Hyatt is being very careful not to cause issues with the HRC owners.  That's a good thing.  However, if I were a Welk owner, I would not be happy with this structure.  At the onset, a Welk owner would likely believe the buyout would result in a full integration of all Welk properties into the HRC/HPC.  They would have unlimited access to all Hyatt resorts.  What a deal!  So now owners of 8 Welk resorts are in a tiny pool where they hope Hyatt owners will take interest in those properties.  IMHO, there's not much of an incentive for me to even think about tipping my toe in those waters.


as a Welk owner, I am not disappointed at all. My ownership and the perks that are associated with it were unaffected.  And in the process I gained a) status with Hyatt Hotels, b) eventual access to Hyatt hotels via our ownership c) Experiences by Welk is now free rather $200/yr. and d) reduced pricing for II exchanges into HRC resorts, if any are available.  IMO, these things are all additions to what I own and  I gave up nothing.


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## RunCat

Kal said:


> Sadly, that's exactly what I was hoping for.  Maybe Hyatt didn't have the intestinal fortitude to assign a low point level on the Welk properties and face the blow back from Welkers.  Those point assignments would definitely tell me which properties might be of interest.  So now we have Hyatt  punting the ball to a 3rd organization and patting themselves on the back.  Sometimes you get a severe strain when trying to pat yourself on the back.



I suspect that there are too many issues to synchronize the programs.  Primary would be the reconciliation between  HRC, which is a weeks system, and HVCPP, which is a predominantly points system. Further,  the reservations for a Priority 1 member can be made 22 months in advance for any resort (a non-priority member can make a reservation at 15 mos.)  I personally have a reservation already in place for Cabo for the week of Dec 30, 2023.  Making a reservation that far in advance does not exist in the HRC system. Nor does allowing every HVCPP owner access to every resort in the system.  I'm not sure how to make this work.
Albeit, HVC may change the program. But, as others suggest, any consolidation will probably need to be a redesigned program that will require a buy-in.


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## Kal

The Welk acquisition is the only way HRC Legacy owners have a touch of "new properties".  There will never be a grass roots new construction like Maui or even Windward Pointe.  Anything new will be under Portfolio.  Unless Portfolio has a massive increase in sales that's not likely to change either.  They are so underwater on sales that they have to dump a boat load of money into it just to say the Maintenance Fees are at $1 per point AND less than HRC legacy.  Even then there are many HRC weeks that are well below the $1 criteria.


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## Mongoose

Kal said:


> The Welk acquisition is the only way HRC Legacy owners have a touch of "new properties".  There will never be a grass roots new construction like Maui or even Windward Pointe.  Anything new will be under Portfolio.  Unless Portfolio has a massive increase in sales that's not likely to change either.  They are so underwater on sales that they have to dump a boat load of money into it just to say the Maintenance Fees are at $1 per point AND less than HRC legacy.  Even then there are many HRC weeks that are well below the $1 criteria.


Based on this there really isn’t access.


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## Oscar923

The primary reason I bought into Welk is Northstar.  I am grateful that my usage is unaffected by this name change.  As Runcat pointed out, now I gain the Discoverist status with Hyatt hotels.


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## alameda94501

Kal said:


> The Welk acquisition is the only way HRC Legacy owners have a touch of "new properties".  There will never be a grass roots new construction like Maui or even Windward Pointe.  Anything new will be under Portfolio.  Unless Portfolio has a massive increase in sales that's not likely to change either.  They are so underwater on sales that they have to dump a boat load of money into it just to say the Maintenance Fees are at $1 per point AND less than HRC legacy.  Even then there are many HRC weeks that are well below the $1 criteria.



Thinking of Maui, I wonder if a new Developer would have a choice, though between HRC and HPC. My guess is that the highest margin for an independent Developer is to go with HRC at least until the honeymoon of new buyers dries up. 

After that point, HPC may make sense to get rid of the dregs. I think they probably suffer a big discount on their revenue/margin selling to HPC but then get their maintenance fees all taken care of.

I don't think HPC is successful at organically earning enough for a new resort as a Developer itself. In fact, Hyatt is having to bail the HPC members out by refunding their Club Fee these days. So they would need to double down on their own to get a new Portfolio resort.

The other downward trend for Portfolio is that while they are successful in pulling in hybrid owners from Legacy with 660 point purchases, they have very few new point-only owners. Having a compelling product for new owners is important to have Portfolio develop successfully.  People dropping $40k-$50k for Marriott somewhat makes sense because of the scope of that club. The same sense for Hyatt doesn't seem to scale.


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## ScoopKona

Mongoose said:


> Based on this there really isn’t access.



Bingo!

I think what I want, and what Kal has said he wants too is the best way forward. (I do not claim to speak for him. But I think we're aligned on this one.)

Hyatt should say "welcome aboard" to Welk owners and start assigning point values. It is very likely that Welk resorts will be under-valued at first if this happens. But Hyatt has always been good about making it right. I'm one of the beneficiaries of this -- my week was bumped up two levels, free, when they decided my week was undervalued.

The only way this really works is if everyone is a peer. Even the Branson owners -- who should at least get Copper points (1100 per year) because it gets them in the system. If it turns out there is demand for Branson that I did not see coming, that can be adjusted later.

But get everyone together and see how it goes. Welk has some nice properties that fit well with the current system. Bring everyone on board and let them dip a toe in.


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## Kal

ScoopLV said:


> Bingo!
> 
> I think what I want, and what Kal has said he wants too is the best way forward. (I do not claim to speak for him. But I think we're aligned on this one.)
> 
> Hyatt should say "welcome aboard" to Welk owners and start assigning point values. It is very likely that Welk resorts will be under-valued at first if this happens. But Hyatt has always been good about making it right. I'm one of the beneficiaries of this -- my week was bumped up two levels, free, when they decided my week was undervalued.
> 
> The only way this really works is if everyone is a peer. Even the Branson owners -- who should at least get Copper points (1100 per year) because it gets them in the system. If it turns out there is demand for Branson that I did not see coming, that can be adjusted later.
> 
> But get everyone together and see how it goes. Welk has some nice properties that fit well with the current system. Bring everyone on board and let them dip a toe in.


Agree!  If I were a Welker, I would not be at all happy with Hyatt's solution.  "If they want us, let us in!"  It's really like table scraps


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## Mongoose

Kal said:


> Agree!  If I were a Welker, I would no be at all happy with Hyatt's solution.  "If they want us, let us in!"  It's really like table scraps


To be fair, there really are no big “winners or losers”.  It’s 98% status quo.  A Welk owner said they felt abused, not sure how that is the case.  I had hoped for some advantages, but there is no free lunch.


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## Mongoose

Thinking about all of this there are now basically three timeshare programs under the Hyatt flag for 26 locations.


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## Kal

Mongoose said:


> To be fair, there really are no big “winners or losers”.  It’s 98% status quo.  A Welk owner said they felt abused, not sure how that is the case.  I had hoped for some advantages, but there is no free lunch.


Rarely do things go well when a company gets bought out.  All you can hope is things don't go backwards.  So in this case Welkers get a little access to HRC properties which they didn't have before.  I've been involved in the wrong end of a buy out and it can get incredibly ugly.


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## Kal

Mongoose said:


> Thinking about all of this there are now basically three timeshare programs under the Hyatt flag for 26 locations.


Hyatt saw the future many moons ago and sold the whole package.  Typical to Hyatt, they retained the naming rights for a continuing cash flow and even kept their finger in the pie by insisting on quality standards to "protect their fine name".  That's good for Hyatt but the cost is borne by the timeshare owners.  Thank you to the Pritzkers?


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## ScoopKona

Mongoose said:


> Thinking about all of this there are now basically three timeshare programs under the Hyatt flag for 26 locations.



This is the problem.

In the world of timeshares, Hyatt is different. You don't see many people coming here and posting how awful the system is. In fact, most of us are very happy with our week(s). And the reason for that is that Hyatt created a system which works. The fact that every point is backed by a unit with known demand (whatever that demand might be -- high or low) means that the system is equitable. Diamond owners can leverage their week for lots of vacations elsewhere. Or they can do an even trade for another diamond week elsewhere. Or they can use what they own. And it's the same with Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze. They all work just fine.

We can debate forever what's the best bang for the buck. And I've heard people say it's too complicated. (But why would anyone want to go back to "trade a week for a week -- even if you're trading a unicorn week for a mediocre one?") 

But what this system does, it does well.

If the Welk owners aren't folded into the system -- we have a program that works better for some than others. And that is a big problem. Hyatt would no longer be "the timeshare system that actually keeps its promises." Welk owners may have been promised one thing when they bought. But Hyatt owners were promised something more. And if Hyatt doesn't find a way to integrate the system, it will be the first major instance of them acting like all the rest of the timeshare companies.


----------



## Kal

ScoopLV said:


> This is the problem.
> 
> In the world of timeshares, Hyatt is different. You don't see many people coming here and posting how awful the system is. In fact, most of us are very happy with our week(s). And the reason for that is that Hyatt created a system which works. The fact that every point is backed by a unit with known demand (whatever that demand might be -- high or low) means that the system is equitable. Diamond owners can leverage their week for lots of vacations elsewhere. Or they can do an even trade for another diamond week elsewhere. Or they can use what they own. And it's the same with Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze. They all work just fine.
> 
> We can debate forever what's the best bang for the buck. And I've heard people say it's too complicated. (But why would anyone want to go back to "trade a week for a week -- even if you're trading a unicorn week for a mediocre one?")
> 
> But what this system does, it does well.
> 
> If the Welk owners aren't folded into the system -- we have a program that works better for some than others. And that is a big problem. Hyatt would no longer be "the timeshare system that actually keeps its promises." Welk owners may have been promised one thing when they bought. But Hyatt owners were promised something more. And if Hyatt doesn't find a way to integrate the system, it will be the first major instance of them acting like all the rest of the timeshare companies.


Remember it's not Hyatt but Marriott.  Let's see how this new package of 3 systems under one banner fits the Marriott approach.  My guess is Marriott would love to eliminate the legacy HRC.  They just can't eliminate the challenge of deeded units.  My guess is Marriott couldn't turn away ILG's bail out price and saw the buy as a step toward "world domination".


----------



## ScoopKona

Kal said:


> Remember it's not Hyatt but Marriott.  Let's see how this new package of 3 systems under one banner fits the Marriott approach.



I get that -- the Marriott buy out. And I'm also not demanding that Hyatt do something with Welk right the [censored] now. The ink is barely dry on the contracts. These things take time -- although this is your wheelhouse, not mine.

It would go a long way towards mollifying the owner base if whoever runs the actual Hyatt system now, announces what they hope to accomplish when integrating the two systems. Because so far, it looks like they're slinging pizzas at the wall to see what sticks.


----------



## Kal

ScoopLV said:


> I get that -- the Marriott buy out. And I'm also not demanding that Hyatt do something with Welk right the [censored] now. The ink is barely dry on the contracts. These things take time -- although this is your wheelhouse, not mine.
> 
> It would go a long way towards mollifying the owner base if whoever runs the actual Hyatt system now announced what they hope to accomplish when integrating the two systems. Because so far, it looks like they're slinging pizzas at the wall to see what sticks.


They are fully aware of the issues, but took the easy path of kicking the can down the road.  All the while getting a cash flow from each Welk/Interval transaction.  What a deal! Step right up for a discount.  If there was a demand, why the need for a discount?


----------



## Danette

Hello all! I am a "Welker" as you say and was looking forward to the expansion of options for both groups in this merger. Unfortunately, it does not appear to be the case yet and I hope it does not take years to get figured out (a futile hope, to be sure). Being rebranded as Hyatt Vacation Club does nothing for me personally, but others have mentioned things that benefit them, so that is good. I'm not interested in exchanging points into the World of Hyatt to get to Hyatt hotels, not because I don't like them but I'm Platinum in Marriott International so they are my go-to. I have enough Welk points that I do not pay for the Experiences Collection already. 

A note about the Santa Fe property - it is part of the Experiences Collection and I have not been able to get into it at all. The last couple of times I have called to find out about availability I was told that Welk has not yet been given any inventory by El Corazon de Santa Fe for this year. It was expected in February and still nothing to date. This is the only property I have tried to access through the Experiences Collection. 

The letter sent to Welk owners is a bit different than that of the OP. I will put into a separate post if anyone is interested


----------



## Danette

From Hyatt Vacation Club 4/1/22 (please forgive the formatting, the email contained graphics that did not want to copy/paste):

Welcome to Hyatt Vacation Club


   With this launch, you’ll be able to enjoy expanded vacation opportunities in addition to the Platinum Program you already know and love.

   I truly believe that a good vacation is exactly the therapy humans need to live and thrive in our modern world. Hyatt Vacation Club will champion and celebrate the power of vacations, especially for our Owners who’ve made the bold commitment to take vacations for the rest of their lives – today is one milestone in a long future together as Vacation Champions.


    Stephanie Butera
_Senior Vice President and Chief Operating Officer_

Vacation Travel Center, formerly known as Experiences by Welk, will now be available to all Owners at no additional cost. Seize your vacation and enhance your getaways with discounts on experiences, rental cars, cruises, and more.

Remember, Platinum Owners enjoy Interval Gold® membership through our trusted exchange partner Interval International®. With Interval Gold, you can enjoy priority access and a reduced exchange fee when traveling to Hyatt Residence Club resorts.

While we retire the Welk Resorts brand, we are excited to announce that Welk Resorts San Diego will be renamed “The Welk” to pay homage to the legacy of the Welk family and the spirit of family-friendly, upscale accommodations around which this resort and the brand were built.


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## ScoopKona

Danette said:


> A note about the Santa Fe property - it is part of the Experiences Collection and I have not been able to get into it at all. The last couple of times I have called to find out about availability I was told that Welk has not yet been given any inventory by El Corazon de Santa Fe for this year. It was expected in February and still nothing to date. This is the only property I have tried to access through the Experiences Collection.




Thanks for the info about Santa Fe. I have a feeling there are a great many of us who would like that to be our first internal exchange with the new system.


----------



## Mongoose

Danette said:


> A note about the Santa Fe property - it is part of the Experiences Collection and I have not been able to get into it at all. The last couple of times I have called to find out about availability I was told that Welk has not yet been given any inventory by El Corazon de Santa Fe for this year. It was expected in February and still nothing to date. This is the only property I have tried to access through the Experiences Collection.


I've wondered what is happening with the Experiences Collection.  I always liked how Welk added that portfolio.  A nice add in if you can get the rooms.


----------



## Kal

With all the happy talk from Hyatt, I don't understand why they didn't lay out a spread featuring the 8 Welk resorts?  This would have been a perfect opportunity to identify the resorts and provide a link with location, features and images.  As of now, there's nothing to entice HRC members to take a look and get their interests engaged.  It's as if these are second cousins or Uncle Ernie's collection in the attic.


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## RunCat

ScoopLV said:


> Bingo!
> 
> Hyatt should say "welcome aboard" to Welk owners and start assigning point values. . . .
> 
> Even the Branson owners . . . .



As I tried to describe earlier, these descriptions do not accurately illustrate the Welk Program.  1) There are no Branson owners. All "weeks" in Branson are owned  via Platinum Priority points.  This is also true for Northstar, Cabo, Breckenridge, and Mountain Villas.    2) Due to the nature of the points program, every unit was assigned a points value which determined the total inventory that could be sold. Since Welk ownership is strictly points, it would not be possible to change the value internally. Albeit, an overlay point value for an internal Hyatt exchange would be possible. But I suspect that was the motivation for using II.


----------



## RunCat

Mongoose said:


> I've wondered what is happening with the Experiences Collection.  I always liked how Welk added that portfolio.  A nice add in if you can get the rooms.


My understanding is that the Experience Collection was part of the Welk Trust and thus remain part of the program.  And I can still currently book them from within the Welk reservation system.


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## ScoopKona

RunCat said:


> As I tried to describe earlier, these descriptions do not accurately illustrate the Welk Program.  1) There are no Branson owners. All "weeks" in Branson are owned  via Platinum Priority points.  This is also true for Northstar, Cabo, Breckenridge, and Mountain Villas.    2) Due to the nature of the points program, every unit was assigned a points value which determined the total inventory that could be sold. Since Welk ownership is strictly points, it would not be possible to change the value internally. Albeit, an overlay point value for an internal Hyatt exchange would be possible. But I suspect that was the motivation for using II.



I'm suggesting wholesale change -- every week at every unit at Welk is assigned a Hyatt point value and name. Every Welk owner is assigned a Hyatt point value based on whatever it is they own.

If, as I suspect, there are more Welk points distributed among the owners than there are total points backed up by units, that would be bad for owners. But not impossible. Let's say Welk sold 120% points to owners -- much like how airlines overbook. Owners would get 80% what they should in Hyatt points until such time that the system is in balance -- ROFRs, quitclaims, repossession, etc.

I use Hyatt's internal exchange site. And I use Interval all the time. (I'm Mr. "Buy Hyatt to trade in Interval.")

But I'll be the first to admit Hyatt's internal exchange system is much, much, much better than Interval's. What I like about Interval is that I can leverage my single week for a full month of travel. This isn't hypothetical. I do this most years.

Even if the average "one-week worth of points" Welk owner ends up at Bronze once the merger is complete, that's still 1300 Hyatt points and potentially three weeks per year. (Again, this is where I started my Hyatt journey. 1300 points goes far -- far enough, at least.)

If I were a Welk owner, and offered the choice of keeping what I have and only trading in Welk; or getting an equivalent number of Hyatt points to jump ship, I'd sign that paper in a heartbeat.


----------



## alameda94501

ScoopLV said:


> I'm suggesting wholesale change -- every week at every unit at Welk is assigned a Hyatt point value and name. Every Welk owner is assigned a Hyatt point value based on whatever it is they own.
> 
> If, as I suspect, there are more Welk points distributed among the owners than there are total points backed up by units, that would be bad for owners. But not impossible. Let's say Welk sold 120% points to owners -- much like how airlines overbook. Owners would get 80% what they should in Hyatt points until such time that the system is in balance -- ROFRs, quitclaims, repossession, etc.
> 
> I use Hyatt's internal exchange site. And I use Interval all the time. (I'm Mr. "Buy Hyatt to trade in Interval.")
> 
> But I'll be the first to admit Hyatt's internal exchange system is much, much, much better than Interval's. What I like about Interval is that I can leverage my single week for a full month of travel. This isn't hypothetical. I do this most years.
> 
> Even if the average "one-week worth of points" Welk owner ends up at Bronze once the merger is complete, that's still 1300 Hyatt points and potentially three weeks per year. (Again, this is where I started my Hyatt journey. 1300 points goes far -- far enough, at least.)
> 
> If I were a Welk owner, and offered the choice of keeping what I have and only trading in Welk; or getting an equivalent number of Hyatt points to jump ship, I'd sign that paper in a heartbeat.



Yes, I think Interval is challenging for our family to use.  Partially it's because we're impulsive travelers with school schedules (not good for timeshares, I know, but it's worked great for six years with HRC) but partly its because bookings are done by the weeks rather than days (except for ShortStay but that hasn't seemed intuitive to use).

In today's web-based world, I don't think it would be a stretch for HRC and HVC to work together for a more proprietary "internal external exchange" instead of Interval, that at 2mo (LCUP time) releases weeks into a new portal that we can both use to reserve/exchange.  As they figure out point values through this they can start walking it backwards from 2mo to 4mo.  We'd still have the 6mo-4mo for our respective clubs to use, and then from 4mo-0mo "we're all Hyatt".


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## ScoopKona

alameda94501 said:


> because bookings are done by the weeks rather than days
> 
> [snip]
> 
> As they figure out point values through this they can start walking it backwards from 2mo to 4mo.  We'd still have the 6mo-4mo for our respective clubs to use, and then from 4mo-0mo "we're all Hyatt".



The Hyatt internal exchange basically fixes the weeks/days thing. It isn't perfect. But it's loads better than Interval. This is usually what we do with errant points which are about to head to LCUP. I'd rather grab a couple weekdays in a studio in Sedona than see them go to LCUP.

I doubt Hyatt is going to do what I want. But I'd like to start Welk owners with as close to parity as possible. That way we're all trading each other's properties. That's good for everyone. It doubles everyone's ski and Hawaii opportunities. Same with Sedona. It gives owners in the US west considerably more drive-to options -- in both systems. 

It's not all roses, though -- It will put more pressure on Key West. But the Keys are an area in decline. (It kills me to type that, Key West is my home town.)


----------



## MP_Michael

mjm1 said:


> I agree. I don’t think it changes anything for Hyatt owners other than providing a discounted exchange fee to trade via II into Welk resorts. I also think it is a first step, so they are least providing some forward movement. It wouldn’t surprise me if within a couple years they provide Welk owners with “HRC point equivalents“ and incorporate “enrolled” Welk units into the HRC points exchange system. Time will tell. In the meantime, we will just keep using our Hyatt ownership the way we have been.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


I agree as well. Unfortunately, as regular participants in the 'Updates' (a.k.a. sales pitches....) at our Hyatt properties we've had our expectations raised with respect to integration and seamless access to the Welk properties. We should have learned since we went through the same drill when Marriot bought HRC. In the meantime, we went through our first attempt to book a Welk (or I should say, Hyatt Vacation Club.... that's not too confusing....) week today and discovered it's difficult to locate the properties on the Interval site (they contain neither the Welk or Hyatt name), the 'reduced fee' is about $50, and the preferred access to HRC members is something you just have to trust them on. It doesn't change anything for us as HRC owners, although I do hope it's just an initial step in a process that'll give us better integration in the future.


----------



## RunCat

ScoopLV said:


> I'm suggesting wholesale change -- every week at every unit at Welk is assigned a Hyatt point value and name. Every Welk owner is assigned a Hyatt point value based on whatever it is they own.
> 
> If, as I suspect, there are more Welk points distributed among the owners than there are total points backed up by units, that would be bad for owners.



Interesting idea.  Albeit, not legally possible to oversell due to CA real estate/timeshare rules. Every point is backed by real estate. This is not a RTU system but proportional ownership in a real estate trust. Thus within the HRCPP the point value (proportionality)  cannot be changed.  However I could see a conversion factor going from Welk to HRC; which might work.


----------



## alexinorlando

MP_Michael said:


> I agree as well. Unfortunately, as regular participants in the 'Updates' (a.k.a. sales pitches....) at our Hyatt properties we've had our expectations raised with respect to integration and seamless access to the Welk properties. We should have learned since we went through the same drill when Marriot bought HRC. In the meantime, we went through our first attempt to book a Welk (or I should say, Hyatt Vacation Club.... that's not too confusing....) week today and discovered it's difficult to locate the properties on the Interval site (they contain neither the Welk or Hyatt name), the 'reduced fee' is about $50, and the preferred access to HRC members is something you just have to trust them on. It doesn't change anything for us as HRC owners, although I do hope it's just an initial step in a process that'll give us better integration in the future.


Exchange fee reduced by $50? Or just $50 total for the exchange?


----------



## Mongoose

MP_Michael said:


> I agree as well. Unfortunately, as regular participants in the 'Updates' (a.k.a. sales pitches....) at our Hyatt properties we've had our expectations raised with respect to integration and seamless access to the Welk properties. We should have learned since we went through the same drill when Marriot bought HRC. In the meantime, we went through our first attempt to book a Welk (or I should say, Hyatt Vacation Club.... that's not too confusing....) week today and discovered it's difficult to locate the properties on the Interval site (they contain neither the Welk or Hyatt name), the 'reduced fee' is about $50, and the preferred access to HRC members is something you just have to trust them on. It doesn't change anything for us as HRC owners, although I do hope it's just an initial step in a process that'll give us better integration in the future.


You have to use advanced search in the resort directory, pull up the resort by their name and the click exchange.  I’m not sure why you can’t search from the main page.


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## Kal

If you try to book one of the "Welk points resorts" within 60 days, do any of those properties show up?


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## RunCat

Kal said:


> If you try to book one of the "Welk points resorts" within 60 days, do any of those properties show up?


FWIW, I searched using my Vistana ownership and found Escondido (San Diego)  resorts available in late summer/fall (Aug+).  Looked for Breckenridge and Northstar and found nothing.


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## RunCat

Could the lack of inventory have to do with the Welk transition from RCI -> Interval on Jan 1?


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## ScoopKona

RunCat said:


> Could the lack of inventory have to do with the Welk transition from RCI -> Interval on Jan 1?



I don't think so. I search for Interval properties often -- and I always "search entire map." Finding anything by Hyatt on II is a rare event. I'll click on Key West, even though I have no interest in visiting. Just because I'm curious.


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## MP_Michael

alexinorlando said:


> Exchange fee reduced by $50? Or just $50 total for the exchange?


Went from $219 to $164, so reduce by $55.


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## jshriber

It is so interesting to me that Marriott is not rebranding Welk in Interval International under the Hyatt Brand.  I own three fixed Welk weeks in the Villas.  I received a proxy vote for a name change which did not include Hyatt but rather naming the property to the generic name The Resort Villas... No boost from brand equity here!!!  I am thinking that Marriott wants the Welk properties to play both in the Hyatt and Marriott DC program with this move.  They do not want to use the Hyatt name which probably introduces a lot of complications.  By not branding it either Marriott or Hyatt they can have it play in both systems?  Maybe the fixed weeks owners are going to Marriott DC and points to Hyatt or they are positioning both types of owners to be able to go in both directions?   It is too bad that the property is being given such a non descriptive name...


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## Kal

It is my understanding that both Welk points and weeks properties will be booked thru Interval.  That approach avoids two big issues for yatt management: 1) forcing Welk owners to pay the huge Portfolio ransom ($13K) to have full access to that program; and 2) assigning a HRC equivalent point value to each Welk week.  However, it would appear that HRC exchangers have access to the Welk points properties.  If not, what kind of barriers must be in place to limit early access to the Welk points resorts?

Also, in my view the Welk points resorts appear to be of considerable quality better than the majority of the weeks resorts.  As an example in the greater San Diego area, La Jolla seems more interesting than Escondido.


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## RunCat

Kal said:


> It is my understanding that both Welk points and weeks properties will be booked thru Interval.  That approach avoids two big issues for yatt management: 1) forcing Welk owners to pay the huge Portfolio ransom ($13K) to have full access to that program; and 2) assigning a HRC equivalent point value to each Welk week.  However, it would appear that HRC exchangers have access to the Welk points properties.  If not, what kind of barriers must be in place to limit early access to the Welk points resorts?
> 
> Also, in my view the Welk points resorts appear to be of considerable quality better than the majority of the weeks resorts.  As an example in the greater San Diego area, La Jolla seems more interesting than Escondido.



To elucidate on your 2nd Comment: Only two developments were available as "weeks" resorts: Welk Villas in Escondido and Palm Desert. These were originally sold as fixed weeks.  Villas on the Greens (Escondido) was sold as a float week with some divisibility. (lock off & partial week).  All of the other resorts are only accessible via platinum points  including Mountain Villas (Escondido). And the points resorts are of much better quality. However the Villas and VOG in Escondido are getting updates.  

re: Access, All points owners can make reservations 15 mos prior to check-in.  So, I'm not sure if barriers need to be put in place.   Also, Welk had a lot of unsold inventory that could perhaps merge with the HPP program to create something new.  I believe April 1 was just a first step in the merger activity.


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## Kal

RunCat said:


> To elucidate on your 2nd Comment: Only two developments were available as "weeks" resorts: Welk Villas in Escondido and Palm Desert. These were originally sold as fixed weeks.  Villas on the Greens (Escondido) was sold as a float week with some divisibility. (lock off & partial week).  All of the other resorts are only accessible via platinum points  including Mountain Villas (Escondido). And the points resorts are of much better quality. However the Villas and VOG in Escondido are getting updates.
> 
> re: Access, All points owners can make reservations 15 mos prior to check-in.  So, I'm not sure if barriers need to be put in place.   Also, Welk had a lot of unsold inventory that could perhaps merge with the HPP program to create something new.  I believe April 1 was just a first step in the merger activity.


My assumption is the Welk points properties are not in Portfolio but rather Interval.  The Welk points owners would not have benefit of any Portfolio provisions unless they paid the outrageous entry fee.  They appear to be only accessible thru Interval, which opens the door to the whole world?  Now if all those points resorts are contained in their own stand alone system (which they very likely are) then a "secret handshake" would allow entry by Portfolio people until 6 months prior, then HRC would have access.  But what about all the other Interval shoppers??  When will all these rules be published?

Hyatt's approach is to create a bunch of boxes and hope everybody plays nice together.  Then they hope Welkers will focus on the shiny object called "World of Magic Stuff".


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## Ty1on

RunCat said:


> Interesting idea.  Albeit, not legally possible to oversell due to CA real estate/timeshare rules. Every point is backed by real estate. This is not a RTU system but proportional ownership in a real estate trust. Thus within the HRCPP the point value (proportionality)  cannot be changed.  However I could see a conversion factor going from Welk to HRC; which might work.



Club members have a contractual right to club assets (the pool of intervals within the club).  Hyatt can offer its owners access to Welk intervals Hyatt OWNS, or to intervals that owners have granted use of to Hyatt (via internal exchange, delinquency agreements, etc), but for Hyatt to open Welk Club-owned intervals for the use of Hyatt members would be an egregious breach of contract. Note that changing the name of the club doesn't alter the contractual obligation to its members.  Every system that swallows up a club has to engineer any interclub transactions so that the club it acquired remains intact.


----------



## lindapproulx

I just called Hyatt Vacation Club to book part of my home week. I'm a long time owner and was excited to hear about the Welk opportunity. We can book these weeks through the Vacation Club desk. For example, I could book a one bedroom at Villas on the Green in Escondido for 870 Interval Points. The bad news is that although they say that there are 8 resorts, there are only 5 locations. Three of the resorts are in Escondido, and the others are in Cathedral City, Truckee, Branson, Cabo, and Breckenridge. Sorry fellow Hyatt Owners, but Santa Fe is not one of the resorts available to us as part of this so called merger. Based solely on location, we have a few new choices - Escondido, Cathedral City, Cabo San Lucas and Branson. Maybe our Welk owners can tell us about the differences between the 3 Escondido properties.


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## tahoeJoe

lindapproulx said:


> I just called Hyatt Vacation Club to book part of my home week. I'm a long time owner and was excited to hear about the Welk opportunity. We can book these weeks through the Vacation Club desk. For example, I could book a one bedroom at Villas on the Green in Escondido for 870 Interval Points. The bad news is that although they say that there are 8 resorts, there are only 5 locations. Three of the resorts are in Escondido, and the others are in Cathedral City, Truckee, Branson, Cabo, and Breckenridge. Sorry fellow Hyatt Owners, but Santa Fe is not one of the resorts available to us as part of this so called merger. Based solely on location, we have a few new choices - Escondido, Cathedral City, Cabo San Lucas and Branson. Maybe our Welk owners can tell us about the differences between the 3 Escondido properties.



Cathedral City?? Have you seen that "resort" I don't think it is anywhere near Hyatt's standards and may damage the brand.  The resort received a dismal 7.00 on the TUG ratings board. 

https://tug2.com/resorts/resort/Welk-Resorts-Palm-Springs-Desert-Oasis?rid=11179&page=description

I'm becoming increasingly disappointed with the so-called merger.


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## Mongoose

I'm a little bit at a loss over the decision to keep HPC and Welk separate.  It seems that HPC has been struggling since inception.  With no new resorts in the pipeline isn't HPC and for that matter HRC kinda dead from a developer standpoint?


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## Mongoose

tahoeJoe said:


> Cathedral City?? Have you seen that "resort" I don't think it is anywhere near Hyatt's standards and may damage the brand.  The resort received a dismal 7.00 on the TUG ratings board.
> 
> https://tug2.com/resorts/resort/Welk-Resorts-Palm-Springs-Desert-Oasis?rid=11179&page=description
> 
> I'm becoming increasingly disappointed with the so-called merger.


I agree.  Its like what is the point?!  It really does nothing for Hyatt.  The only thing I can think is they have future plans that have not yet been announced.  Some type of HGVMAX type of cross sell?


----------



## mjm1

lindapproulx said:


> I just called Hyatt Vacation Club to book part of my home week. I'm a long time owner and was excited to hear about the Welk opportunity. We can book these weeks through the Vacation Club desk. For example, I could book a one bedroom at Villas on the Green in Escondido for 870 Interval Points. The bad news is that although they say that there are 8 resorts, there are only 5 locations. Three of the resorts are in Escondido, and the others are in Cathedral City, Truckee, Branson, Cabo, and Breckenridge. Sorry fellow Hyatt Owners, but Santa Fe is not one of the resorts available to us as part of this so called merger. Based solely on location, we have a few new choices - Escondido, Cathedral City, Cabo San Lucas and Branson. Maybe our Welk owners can tell us about the differences between the 3 Escondido properties.



Thanks for sharing that information.

We used to own Welk, so I can share information regarding the Escondido property. There are three sections. The Lawrence Welk Resort Villas are the original section. Fixed week/2 BR units that are large by today’s standards and nicely laid out. Only two floors in each building. Some, perhaps many of them, sit on an Executive Golf Course. We liked staying in these units, especially after they were updates. The next section is Villas on the Green. This is a floating ownership, the units aren’t as big and if I remember correctly there are usually 3 floors in each building. They are lock off units. The most recently built section is the Mountain Villas. This section, as the name suggests, is located further on the side of the mountain and sits on the outskirts of the entire property. The units were sold strictly as part of the Platinum points program and have lock off units (2 and 3 BR). Each section has one or more pools.

We actually enjoyed the resort, but over time decided the location in Escondido was too far from what we wanted. That said, it’s about 45-50 minutes north of San Diego (all times subject to SoCal traffic patterns), 30-35 minutes to the beach, 20-40 minutes to wine tasting in Temecula, and 25-30 minutes to the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.

Best regards.

Mike


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## mjm1

tahoeJoe said:


> Cathedral City?? Have you seen that "resort" I don't think it is anywhere near Hyatt's standards and may damage the brand.  The resort received a dismal 7.00 on the TUG ratings board.
> 
> https://tug2.com/resorts/resort/Welk-Resorts-Palm-Springs-Desert-Oasis?rid=11179&page=description
> 
> I'm becoming increasingly disappointed with the so-called merger.





Mongoose said:


> I agree.  Its like what is the point?!  It really does nothing for Hyatt.  The only thing I can think is they have future plans that have not yet been announced.  Some type of HGVMAX type of cross sell?



I agree with both of your assessments of this property. It is a converted apartment building located in Cathedral City. Welk would promote it as Palm Springs, which has a better image. The only way I can see bringing this up to Hyatt standards would be to tear it down, sell the land and rebuild it somewhere else. Rancho Mirage, Palm Desert or La Quinta come to mind. Of course that won’t happen. I wonder if they end up selling it to an independent group.

Best regards.

Mike


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## Mongoose

mjm1 said:


> I agree with both of your assessments of this property. It is a converted apartment building located in Cathedral City. Welk would promote it as Palm Springs, which has a better image. The only way I can see bringing this up to Hyatt standards would be to tear it down, sell the land and rebuild it somewhere else. Rancho Mirage, Palm Desert or La Quinta come to mind. Of course that won’t happen. I wonder if they end up selling it to an independent group.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


Or tear it down and rebuild.  The land is where the value is.


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## mjm1

Mongoose said:


> Or tear it down and rebuild.  The land is where the value is.



I agree. My only issue with that is that it’s still in Cathedral City. Not a likely spot for a Hyatt.


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## Mongoose

mjm1 said:


> I agree. My only issue with that is that it’s still in Cathedral City. Not a likely spot for a Hyatt.


They can call is South Palm Desert.... LOL....


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## Kal

IMHO, my take is the Welk's weeks properties are for large part marginal.  Then with the Welk's points properties, there's a real step-up.  Just look at the locations: Sedona, Avon CO, La Jolla, Scottsdale, Kauai, Beaver Creek, Tahoe, and Santa Fee.  Those places get my interests.  Let me think...Escondido rocks or Kauai anything??  So is that the driver for the Hyatt deal?  Throw the HRC folks a bone in hopes they will come to HPP.


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## dannybaker

Mongoose said:


> To be fair, there really are no big “winners or losers”.  It’s 98% status quo.  A Welk owner said they felt abused, not sure how that is the case.  I had hoped for some advantages, but there is no free lunch.


I think abused in the sense that no real information has flown to owners.


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## ScoopKona

Ty1on said:


> Club members have a contractual right to club assets (the pool of intervals within the club).  Hyatt can offer its owners access to Welk intervals Hyatt OWNS, or to intervals that owners have granted use of to Hyatt (via internal exchange, delinquency agreements, etc), but for Hyatt to open Welk Club-owned intervals for the use of Hyatt members would be an egregious breach of contract.



I was a Hyatt salesman. One of my standard lines was, "Hyatt has the right to monkey with the program. This bit you're initialing right here says so. If they do, you will own your week in your unit at Sunset Harbor/Beach House/Windward."

They will win if sued on that. The only way is to nudge them in the right direction.


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## alameda94501

Kal said:


> IMHO, my take is the Welk's weeks properties are for large part marginal.  Then with the Welk's points properties, there's a real step-up.  Just look at the locations: Sedona, Avon CO, La Jolla, Scottsdale, Kauai, Beaver Creek, Tahoe, and Santa Fee.  Those places get my interests.  Let me think...Escondido rocks or Kauai anything??  So is that the driver for the Hyatt deal?  Throw the HRC folks a bone in hopes they will come to HPP.



According to the Public Report document (https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/hrc-to-acquire-welk-resorts-merged.314028/page-16#post-2605405) some of the Welk Collections have pretty steep competition, since Welk has 32,000 members already.  I took the Public Report and put it in a spreadsheet, ordered by the weeks availability.  It looks to me to be a real snipe hunt for Avon CO or Scottsdale.



*Resort**City**ST**Weeks**PlatinumPoints**Week%**PP%*Lawrence Welk Resort VillasEscondidoCA       10,588        2,541,120,00023.3%​22.4%​Villas on the GreenEscondidoCA          9,619        1,760,610,00021.1%​15.5%​Desert OasisCathedral CityCA          5,638           676,560,00012.4%​6.0%​Mountain VillasEscondidoCA          3,942        1,201,320,0008.7%​10.6%​Northstar LodgeTruckeeCA          3,906        1,717,890,0008.6%​15.2%​Sirena Del MarCaboMx          3,744        1,347,840,0008.2%​11.9%​Lodges at Timber RidgeBransonMO          3,120           741,360,0006.9%​6.5%​Pono KaiKapa'aHI             734           140,175,0001.6%​1.2%​RanahanBreckenridgeCO             572           269,010,0001.3%​2.4%​The Cliffs at PrincevillePrincevilleHI             562           103,680,0001.2%​0.9%​One Village PlaceTruckeeCA             433           182,250,0001.0%​1.6%​El Corazon de Santa FeSanta FeNM             410           179,400,0000.9%​1.6%​Eagle Crest ResortRedmondOR             364             64,110,0000.8%​0.6%​Four Seasons Residence Club - AviaraCarlsbadCA             327           141,750,0000.7%​1.3%​Villas of Cave CreekCave CreekAZ             301             56,880,0000.7%​0.5%​Red Wolf Lodge at Squaw ValleyOlympic ValleyCA             263             16,860,0000.6%​0.1%​Stoneridge ResortBlanchardID             200             19,632,0000.4%​0.2%​Arroyo Roble ResortSedonaAZ             188             55,950,0000.4%​0.5%​Red Wolf Lakeside LodgeTahoe VistaCA             182               9,930,0000.4%​0.1%​Falcon PointAvonCO             150             21,445,0000.3%​0.2%​Four Seasons Residence Club - Troon NorthScottsdaleAZ             140             63,000,0000.3%​0.6%​Poste Montane LodgeAvonCO             128             20,670,0000.3%​0.2%​*TOTALS* *      45,511**     11,331,442,000*


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## alameda94501

ScoopLV said:


> I was a Hyatt salesman. One of my standard lines was, "Hyatt has the right to monkey with the program. This bit you're initialing right here says so. If they do, you will own your week in your unit at Sunset Harbor/Beach House/Windward."
> 
> They will win if sued on that. The only way is to nudge them in the right direction.



I agree, @ScoopLV, that for the legacy program as a deeded program Hyatt has complete flexibility since we're really "just buying the unit week" and CUP is a "bonus".

My guess is that in consumer-friendly states, buying into a pure points program (whether HVC or HPC)  affords a little more parity/protection, since the consumers has no fallback of tangible real estate.


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## Kal

Ty1on said:


> Club members have a contractual right to club assets (the pool of intervals within the club).  Hyatt can offer its owners access to Welk intervals Hyatt OWNS, or to intervals that owners have granted use of to Hyatt (via internal exchange, delinquency agreements, etc), but for Hyatt to open Welk Club-owned intervals for the use of Hyatt members would be an egregious breach of contract. Note that changing the name of the club doesn't alter the contractual obligation to its members.  Every system that swallows up a club has to engineer any interclub transactions so that the club it acquired remains intact.


With deeded ownership, all you own is Unit X during Week Y.  The thought that someone "owns" the pool of intervals as an asset is not specified in the deed.


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## Kal

alameda94501 said:


> According to the Public Report document (https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/hrc-to-acquire-welk-resorts-merged.314028/page-16#post-2605405) some of the Welk Collections have pretty steep competition, since Welk has 32,000 members already.  I took the Public Report and put it in a spreadsheet, ordered by the weeks availability.  It looks to me to be a real snipe hunt for Avon CO or Scottsdale.
> 
> 
> 
> *Resort**City**ST**Weeks**PlatinumPoints**Week%**PP%*Lawrence Welk Resort VillasEscondidoCA       10,588        2,541,120,00023.3%​22.4%​Villas on the GreenEscondidoCA          9,619        1,760,610,00021.1%​15.5%​Desert OasisCathedral CityCA          5,638           676,560,00012.4%​6.0%​Mountain VillasEscondidoCA          3,942        1,201,320,0008.7%​10.6%​Northstar LodgeTruckeeCA          3,906        1,717,890,0008.6%​15.2%​Sirena Del MarCaboMx          3,744        1,347,840,0008.2%​11.9%​Lodges at Timber RidgeBransonMO          3,120           741,360,0006.9%​6.5%​Pono KaiKapa'aHI             734           140,175,0001.6%​1.2%​RanahanBreckenridgeCO             572           269,010,0001.3%​2.4%​The Cliffs at PrincevillePrincevilleHI             562           103,680,0001.2%​0.9%​One Village PlaceTruckeeCA             433           182,250,0001.0%​1.6%​El Corazon de Santa FeSanta FeNM             410           179,400,0000.9%​1.6%​Eagle Crest ResortRedmondOR             364             64,110,0000.8%​0.6%​Four Seasons Residence Club - AviaraCarlsbadCA             327           141,750,0000.7%​1.3%​Villas of Cave CreekCave CreekAZ             301             56,880,0000.7%​0.5%​Red Wolf Lodge at Squaw ValleyOlympic ValleyCA             263             16,860,0000.6%​0.1%​Stoneridge ResortBlanchardID             200             19,632,0000.4%​0.2%​Arroyo Roble ResortSedonaAZ             188             55,950,0000.4%​0.5%​Red Wolf Lakeside LodgeTahoe VistaCA             182               9,930,0000.4%​0.1%​Falcon PointAvonCO             150             21,445,0000.3%​0.2%​Four Seasons Residence Club - Troon NorthScottsdaleAZ             140             63,000,0000.3%​0.6%​Poste Montane LodgeAvonCO             128             20,670,0000.3%​0.2%​*TOTALS**      45,511**     11,331,442,000*


These numbers make my head hurt.  On first blush, it would appear that either there's a tremendous amount of unsold inventory, or Welk only owned a portion of the resort.  For the bottom seven, only 0.5% - 0.9% are in play??  Where is the attraction for Marriott to purchase this Club???


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## Ty1on

Kal said:


> With deeded ownership, all you own is Unit X during Week Y.  The thought that someone "owns" the pool of intervals as an asset is not specified in the deed.


UDI are deeded, too, unless you are in a trust.  Ownership in anything, deeded or trust, is conscripted by the contractual terms of the ownership.  Could be a unit and week, could float, could be a share of a finite points pool.


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## Kal

Ty1on said:


> UDI are deeded, too, unless you are in a trust.  Ownership in anything, deeded or trust, is conscripted by the contractual terms of the ownership.  Could be a unit and week, could float, could be a share of a finite points pool.


When you join the "Club" you are provided a set of rules.  There is no contract negotiation.  The rules call out all the terms of exchange and point values, etc.  Hyatt owns the system and they can and have changed any aspect of the rules at their leisure.  If an individual resort desires to remove itself from the Club (as determined by the resort owners and BOD), Hyatt is removed and so are the rules.  The resort is then free to retain another management firm and that firm provides new rules.  In that case, there is still no contract or negotiation thereof with any individual owner.

Irrespective of the ownership issues, it would be extremely burdensome and costly for an owner to challenge the system or part thereof.  Convincing the ownership pool to challenge Hyatt or Marriott would be like herding cats.  In most resorts it is a real challenge just to get 30% of the owners to even vote on an issue.


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## RunCat

Kal said:


> These numbers make my head hurt.  On first blush, it would appear that either there's a tremendous amount of unsold inventory, or Welk only owned a portion of the resort.  For the bottom seven, only 0.5% - 0.9% are in play??  Where is the attraction for Marriott to purchase this Club???



you are correct about the limitations of ”The Experience Collection” resorts. From my understanding, Welk basically did what is recommended here: buy resale.  They just did it in large blocks at a handful of resorts that were deemed attractive and provided an increased footprint. A point value was provided to those units and the points were added to the Trust. Those points could then be sold at retail; quite brilliant IMO.  But to address your question, the inventory at each of them is quite limited. It may be only 1-3 units/week at each resort during non-peak seasons.

Why was Welk purchased? 1) I think the Welk family was motivated to sell due to: the changing timeshare landscape, financial strain due to a $5M judgment and loss of a Kauai purchase due to finding artifacts on the property, and  challenges finding family members to lead the company. 2) Welk had a massive amount of unsold inventory. This would provide Marriott a way to less expensively create product for sale.  And perhaps grow the Hyatt vacation club.  3) Welk’s sales cost were quite high. Marriott maybe saw a way to directly profit by just lowering those costs.  4) With the consolidation in the timeshare market, Welk would likely be acquired by somebody. Marriott may have decided it made more sense to bring the Welk customers into the Marriott program rather than letting them go elsewhere, 5) there is also additional land to add buildings/units in Breckenridge, Escondido, and Cabo.

FWIW, I own with both Vistana and Welk.  Not too long ago they were both independent. They have now both been acquired by MVC. But not much has changed in either my use nor available resorts. With the “pending (?) unification between MVC and Vistana that may change.  I suspect it will be another 1-2 years before we see any real change with either HRC and HVC.


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## Kal

RunCat said:


> you are correct about the limitations of ”The Experience Collection” resorts. From my understanding, Welk basically did what is recommended here: buy resale.  They just did it in large blocks at a handful of resorts that were deemed attractive and provided an increased footprint. A point value was provided to those units and the points were added to the Trust. Those points could then be sold at retail; quite brilliant IMO.  But to answer address your question, the inventory at each of them is quite limited. It may be only 1-3 units/week at each resort during non-peak seasons.
> 
> Why was Welk purchased? 1) I think the Welk family was motivated to sell due to: the changing timeshare landscape, financial strain due to a $5M judgment and loss of a Kauai purchase due to finding artifacts on the property, and  challenges finding family members to lead the company. 2) Welk had a massive amount of unsold inventory. This would provide Marriott a way to less expensively create product for sale.  And perhaps grow the Hyatt vacation club.  3) Welk’s sales cost were quite high. Marriott maybe saw a way to directly profit by just lowering those costs.  4) With the consolidation in the timeshare market, Welk would likely be acquired by somebody. Marriott may have decided it made more sense to bring the Welk customers into the Marriott program rather than letting them go elsewhere, 5) there is also additional land to add buildings/units in Breckenridge, Escondido, and Cabo.
> 
> FWIW, I own with both Vistana and Welk.  Not too long ago they were both independen. They have now both been acquired by MVC. But not much has changed in either my use nor available resorts. With the “pending (?) unification between MVC and Vistana that may change.  I suspect it will be another 1-2 years before we see any real with either HRC and HVC.


That's a very well thought out description of the Welk situation.  What it really means is MCV saw an opportunity and acted.  They are well aware of the extremely limited resource presented in Welk properties.  Thankfully, MCV created a totally separate system without adversely impacting or diluting the existing HPP & HRC structure.  Now let's watch all the frustration when owners see very slim pickings for exchanges.


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## ScoopKona

Noting for the record that I'm "liking" Kal's and RunCat's posts above for the information. Not that I like the direction Hyatt is traveling.


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## Mongoose

RunCat said:


> you are correct about the limitations of ”The Experience Collection” resorts. From my understanding, Welk basically did what is recommended here: buy resale.  They just did it in large blocks at a handful of resorts that were deemed attractive and provided an increased footprint. A point value was provided to those units and the points were added to the Trust. Those points could then be sold at retail; quite brilliant IMO.  But to address your question, the inventory at each of them is quite limited. It may be only 1-3 units/week at each resort during non-peak seasons.
> 
> Why was Welk purchased? 1) I think the Welk family was motivated to sell due to: the changing timeshare landscape, financial strain due to a $5M judgment and loss of a Kauai purchase due to finding artifacts on the property, and  challenges finding family members to lead the company. 2) Welk had a massive amount of unsold inventory. This would provide Marriott a way to less expensively create product for sale.  And perhaps grow the Hyatt vacation club.  3) Welk’s sales cost were quite high. Marriott maybe saw a way to directly profit by just lowering those costs.  4) With the consolidation in the timeshare market, Welk would likely be acquired by somebody. Marriott may have decided it made more sense to bring the Welk customers into the Marriott program rather than letting them go elsewhere, 5) there is also additional land to add buildings/units in Breckenridge, Escondido, and Cabo.
> 
> FWIW, I own with both Vistana and Welk.  Not too long ago they were both independent. They have now both been acquired by MVC. But not much has changed in either my use nor available resorts. With the “pending (?) unification between MVC and Vistana that may change.  I suspect it will be another 1-2 years before we see any real change with either HRC and HVC.


I'm not sure they were simply allowed to buy resale as there are commercial activity restrictions.  They would have to negotiate T&C's with each company.  They also had access to Disney.


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## RunCat

Mongoose said:


> I'm not sure they were simply allowed to buy resale as there are commercial activity restrictions.  They would have to negotiate T&C's with each company.  They also had access to Disney.


I could be wrong.  I did talk to the folks at Poste Montane and Pono Kai about Welk's involvement.  And it may not have been strictly a wholesale purchase. Welk basically negotiated the purchase of fixed weeks at these various resorts and that is how they acquired inventory.  Not sure about the Disney access; but that no longer exists.


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## Kal

The purchase of fixed weeks has been around since the dark ages.  Vacation Internationale did it in the 80's


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## dOzEy22

Has anyone been able to log onto the vacation travel center (formerly experience by welks)?


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## Mongoose

dOzEy22 said:


> Has anyone been able to log onto the vacation travel center (formerly experience by welks)?


Did you make reservations before Hyatt?


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## dOzEy22

Mongoose said:


> Did you make reservations before Hyatt?


No I haven’t. I’m able to log in, but I reach a page where it says the site is under maintenance and that I can still enter via the link below, but there is no link. Its been like this since the beginning of April.


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## Mongoose

dOzEy22 said:


> No I haven’t. I’m able to log in, but I reach a page where it says the site is under maintenance and that I can still enter via the link below, but there is no link. Its been like this since the beginning of April.


I'd call them up.  I would think they couldn't just take those options away without a lot of fuss.


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## jmama

Given that I bought into the Hyatt Vacation Club (which subsequently because Hyatt Residence Club), I find the new name for Welk as the Hyatt Vacation Club disingenuous.


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## Mongoose

jmama said:


> Given that I bought into the Hyatt Vacation Club (which subsequently because Hyatt Residence Club), I find the new name for Welk as the Hyatt Vacation Club disingenuous.


It simplifies a lot of legal paperwork for them.


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