# WooHoo!  Platinum at $1.40/pt!



## Blues (Jun 23, 2008)

I've been meaning for a while to sell my 5000 pt gold unit at Craigendarroch, where the exchange rates are killing me for the maint fees, and buy a 7000 pt platinum unit in Las Vegas.  Well, thanks to this thread, I took another look at what's on eBay.  And while I didn't buy that specific unit, I got a 7000 point Flamingo unit for just $1.40 per point!  Woo Hoo!    And being a Flamingo, it won't have to pass ROFR.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 23, 2008)

Congratulations on a great deal.  I love Hilton!   Don't own any----yet.


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## CaliDave (Jun 24, 2008)

Wow.. that is a great deal.  Good job..  that week should easily sell for $11-12K , even in this depressed market

Let me know how you go about selling your Scotland week. I have a couple 7000 point weeks I'm thinking of selling.   I don't think my MF's are too bad.
Around $800 if I remember right.. How much are yours?


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## Cathyb (Jun 24, 2008)

Hmmm, never thought about the icky U.S. exchange rate in Pounds or Euros having a serious effect on U.S. timeshare owners.

Is Hilton's Flamingo the one down near Wynn?


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## Blues (Jun 24, 2008)

CaliDave said:


> Wow.. that is a great deal.  Good job..  that week should easily sell for $11-12K , even in this depressed market
> 
> Let me know how you go about selling your Scotland week. I have a couple 7000 point weeks I'm thinking of selling.   I don't think my MF's are too bad.
> Around $800 if I remember right.. How much are yours?



You know, my recollection was that it was over $1000.  But I just looked it up and it was only $937; plus, of course, the $85 HGVC fee.  So the difference in maint fees probably didn't justify the expense of buying and selling.  But still I got a great deal!

I think we're going to hold onto both units for a year or so, and see if we can find a way to spend 12000 points  Perhaps we'll sell the Craigendarroch in 2010.

(Oh boy, this is a symptom, isn't it?  Hello, my name is Bob and I'm a timeshare addict).

Cathy, the HGVC Flamingo is behind the Flamingo hotel (formerly Flamingo Hilton hotel), which is across the strip from Caesars and kitty corner to Bellagio.  Or, as I like to think of it, HGVC Flamingo is next door to Battista's Hole in the Wall restaurant.


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## judgerey (Jun 24, 2008)

Blues, when you find a good 12-step group, let me know.  I bought our first TS in April of this year (Seaworld).  Just bought a resale earlier this month (Bay Club).  I check eBay and search online for resales at least 3-4 times a day.  My wife is getting nervous that I'll bankrupt the family.  I need help!:rofl:


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## UWSurfer (Jun 24, 2008)

You did very well!   We paid about $2K less for the 2 bdrm GOLD weeks we own there, but of course have the same MF's as you.

You definetly got a good deal!


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## CaliDave (Jun 24, 2008)

Blues said:


> You know, my recollection was that it was over $1000.  But I just looked it up and it was only $937; plus, of course, the $85 HGVC fee.  So the difference in maint fees probably didn't justify the expense of buying and selling.  But still I got a great deal!



$937 is a little high for 5000 points..  but not too bad for 7000 points. About $100 more than the Flamingo 7000. 

I'm guessing the 7000 point Scotland week will sell for about $7K?? So I guess you're right.. even if you save $100/yr in MF's.. it'll take 30 years to break even   ..  anyway, it was a great deal for Flamingo. Good job.


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## Blues (Jun 25, 2008)

*Even Cheaper on eBay!*

So the week that was mentioned in the TUG thread that got me looking at eBay went even cheaper -- $9500 for 7000 points at Flamingo.  Wow.

The difference between this week and the one I bought is that this week still had its 2008 points intact, but requires the buyer to pay the 2008 maint fees, which is only fair.  But if your plans are already set for 2008, like most of ours are, that means you'd need to pay to rescue those points so you can use them next year.  Not a big penalty, but slightly inconvenient.  The week I bought has its use starting in 2009, giving me time to plan what I want to do with the points.  All-in-all, that makes it a comparable deal in my mind.

Still, $9500 for 7000 platinum points is practically unheard of.  Perhaps the market is weaker than we all thought?


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## Seth Nock (Jun 29, 2008)

Blues,
    As there is no mention of funds being escrowed, or a title search or insurance being offered,  make sure you protect yourself.  Make sure that a licensed bonded escrow company is used.  Also, make sure you have title insurance, as there have been issues that I have seen.  If you need the number of a few closing companies, feel free to email me.


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 29, 2008)

Hi Seth
pricing is really cheap in Scotland and flamingo- and they are not excercisng rofr for some reason- 
In your opinion, do you think prospective buyers should not consider other HGVC resorts at this time, but instead focus on these two only? As HGVC will probably rofr other attractive priced deals?


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## benjaminb13 (Jun 29, 2008)

Blues said:


> Still, $9500 for 7000 platinum points is practically unheard of.  Perhaps the market is weaker than we all thought?




Thats a good question Blues
Is this accross the board or just with the flamingo?


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## Seth Nock (Jun 30, 2008)

Benj,
The Scotland units are affiliates.  The maintenance fees are very high. As for the Flamingo, if you buy a clean unit, from a licensed broker, prices tend to be about $11,500 - $12,000.  The auction listed above is from nonlicensed "broker" and may not be clean units.  Without being offered title insurance and without funds being escrowed, you are taking a big risk.  Many transactions go smoothly, however some people get scammed, intentionally or unintentionally.  You would not use an unlicensed lawyer or doctor as you would be taking a big risk.  The same is true with a nonlicensed broker. If you do agree to buy from anyone, make sure you protect yourself.  Use a licensed escrow company that is reputable and make sure a title search is done.  You don't want it to come back to bite you.


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## Blues (Jul 1, 2008)

Hi Seth,

Thanks for the reply.  The seller's agent has specified Timeshare Transfer Inc as the escrow agent.  I inquired about this escrow agent in this thread, and several TUGgers indicate that they're trustworthy.  So I assume that as long as Timeshare Transfer holds the money in escrow until title closes, I should be OK, right?  Good catch on title insurance, though.  I don't know whether TTI offers this.  I haven't made contact with them yet.  Just signed the purchase agreement with the seller's agent this AM, and faxed it back.  I assume that this will now go to the escrow agent, and I should deal with them from here.  Does that sound right?  On the up-and-up?


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## Blues (Jul 1, 2008)

benjaminb13 said:


> Thats a good question Blues
> Is this accross the board or just with the flamingo?



I have a limited sample size, but I've only seen it happening with Flamingo weeks.  They're the only Hilton-owned property without ROFR.

You believe it's happening with Scotland too?  That could be, since the exchange rate makes their maint fees expensive.  I have a 5000 point Craigendarroch I'll want to sell for this very reason, once I close on the 7000 point Flamingo.  Well, I actually may wait a year or two, to see if I can use all 12000 points.


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## Seth Nock (Jul 1, 2008)

You will not know of any problems until you try to sell the unit.  You may think all is fine with the closing company and then in a few years, try to sell the property and find out that there is a lien on the title.  This only happens a few times, however, if it is you, you won't be able to sell the unit.  So, the closing company can have a good reputation because 99.9% of the time all is fine.  But if they did not do a proper title search and issue insurance, and if you are the unlucky buyer, you will have just paid good money for something you will never be able to sell.


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## e.bram (Jul 1, 2008)

How could anybody compare a licensed doctor, lawyer, engineer or architect with a real estate broker? What is their equivalent to a MD, JD or PHD as an educational requirement of professional internship?  Ever hear of a mother wanting her daughter to marry a real estate broker?


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## benjaminb13 (Jul 1, 2008)

Come on, Bram

Its good advise Seth is giving us - and you know it.

you know a lot of things can go wrong in a resale transaction, A good broker knows all the ins and outs needed to negotiate the transaction.

Most of us know that anyone who is licensed whether it be a doctor or a broker can not get out of hand as he is subject to monitoring and disciplines of the govt (dept of real estate)- I believe- 

An unlicensed broker has no boundaries-


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## limin (Jul 1, 2008)

Most real estate brokers in my community make far more $$$$ than the doctors and lawyers do.  Wouldn't bother me a bit to have my daughter marry one.


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## e.bram (Jul 1, 2008)

They don't selling timeshares.


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## Troopers (Jul 8, 2008)

Newbie here and back to the topic...

Why do the HHV points sell about $3.50/pt?  If points are points, the only benefit in buying HHV points (vs Flamingo points) is the extra 3 months reservation window, right?


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## Bill4728 (Jul 8, 2008)

R Chen said:


> Newbie here and back to the topic...
> 
> Why do the HHV points sell about $3.50/pt?  If points are points, the only benefit in buying HHV points (vs Flamingo points) is the extra 3 months reservation window, right?



Yes that exactly right. If you buy HHV, you can reserve your week from 12 months ahead. At 9 months, your in the same line with owners who bought for $1.40/pts at LV.


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## PigsDad (Jul 8, 2008)

Bill4728 said:


> Yes that exactly right. If you buy HHV, you can reserve your week from 12 months ahead. At 9 months, your in the same line with owners who bought for $1.40/pts at LV.


And, if you have seen some of the recent threads, getting a HHV reservation at the 9-month window is not a given anymore.  It has gotten extremely difficult with very little available inventory.

Kurt


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## luv2vacation (Jul 8, 2008)

Okay, I have been researching Hilton and thought I understood it a little - you can book EXACTLY what you purchased (unit size, season, full week) at your home resort 12 months out?  At 9 months out, you can book at ANY Hilton resort with at least a 3 night minimum, any check-in day?  I am reading that you can bank points, too?  Can you borrow?

Now, you are talking about HHV and I am again lost - what is that?

I am thinking about EOY 1 BR at HGVC International Dr. - that would give me small points amount (what I'm looking for), MF to be paid only EOY, and smaller amount of MF because it's a 1 BR.  Would I still be able to book 2 BR or studio sometimes?  Would that get me in at the 9 month mark for just 3-4 days during spring break or summer time?

I have been following this thread and would appreciate any info that you could give me.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 8, 2008)

luv2vacation said:


> Okay, I have been researching Hilton and thought I understood it a little - you can book EXACTLY what you purchased (unit size, season, full week) at your home resort 12 months out?  At 9 months out, you can book at ANY Hilton resort with at least a 3 night minimum, any check-in day?  I am reading that you can bank points, too?  Can you borrow?
> 
> Now, you are talking about HHV and I am again lost - what is that?
> 
> ...


If you want to use a HGVC ownership at 9 months and go to LV or Orlando. It doesn't matter were you buy because you'll almost always be able to book what you want when you want with your points.  

The thing about Hawaii (Hilton Hawaiian Village -HHV) is that historically HGVC owners have said they haven't had much trouble using their HGVC at the 9 month mark to reserve a room in Hawaii. That has changed. They are finding very little availablity for Hawaii at 9 months. There is an idea that this maybe due to pre-sales of the 2 newest Hawaii resorts, both of which haven't opened, but who knows. So this may be an on going problem ( no open season Hawaii availablity) or it may go away when the two new resorts open. 

Yes, you can bank and borrow pts. But banking and borrowing with an EOY means you have to use the TS in the year you don't have points. Let's say you own an odd year TS. You'd have to bank 2009's pts to 2010 and borrow 2011 pts into 2010. So banking and borrowing with a EOY TS is much more difficult.


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## PigsDad (Jul 8, 2008)

luv2vacation said:


> Now, you are talking about HHV and I am again lost - what is that?


HHV = Hilton Hawaiian Village -- the two (soon to be three) properties in Honolulu.

Kurt


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## luv2vacation (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks Bill for the info. and thanks Kurt for the clarification of HHV.  After Bill's response, that's kind've what I thought it stood for.


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## jscboston (Aug 2, 2008)

Question to the original poster (if you are still there).

How is your closing going?

I bid on this one and narrowly lost out to you (congrats).  I put another one under contract at a slightly higher price shortly after this auction.  Closing is proceeding nicely.  

Just curious if you have a real seller that is able to perform.


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## Talent312 (Aug 2, 2008)

luv2vacation said:


> Okay, I have been researching Hilton and thought I understood it a little... and I am again lost...



Don't worry.  The exam is multiple choice, and the essay question at the end on "rescuing" points is extra credit.

Bill's post sums it up, nicely.  But even those of us who've owned for a while refer to the Member's Guide from time to time.  However, the flexibility of the system, and hence, its complexity, is its greatest asset.  Once you grasp the options for your points; the rest, like making actual reservations, is easy.


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## Blues (Aug 4, 2008)

jscboston said:


> Question to the original poster (if you are still there).
> 
> How is your closing going?
> 
> ...



The closing company has reported to me that they've received all the paperwork they require from the seller and from HGVC, and will send the closing docs to us and to the seller this week.

Thanks for the congrats.  I'm pleased with the purchase so far.  Please write back when your unit has closed, and tell us all how it went.  I'll do the same.

-Bob


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## icydog (Aug 7, 2008)

*Got ROFR'd at Hilton I-Drive location*

I just had my contract bought back at the International Drive location. I offered 1.80 a point on a 7K contract. I wonder if it has to do with Holiday Group selling me the contract.


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## Blues (Aug 7, 2008)

My condolences, Marylyn.  Wow, that's a pretty high level for them to exercise ROFR in today's market.  I'm surprised.  Try looking on eBay for a Flamingo.

I've gotten and returned my closing docs along with a check for the purchase amount plus closing.  Closing appears to be progressing normally, or even reasonably quickly.  Here's hoping the seller is as quick to return their docs.


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## DEROS (Aug 7, 2008)

PigsDad said:


> HHV = Hilton Hawaiian Village -- the two (soon to be three) properties in Honolulu.
> 
> Kurt



Hilton Hawaiian Village is in reference to the whole property.  That includes the hotel, the stores, and the TS.


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## icydog (Aug 7, 2008)

Blues said:


> My condolences, Marylyn.  Wow, that's a pretty high level for them to exercise ROFR in today's market.  I'm surprised.  Try looking on eBay for a Flamingo.
> 
> I've gotten and returned my closing docs along with a check for the purchase amount plus closing.  Closing appears to be progressing normally, or even reasonably quickly.  Here's hoping the seller is as quick to return their docs.



Well now that I know the Flamingo has no ROFR that's what I am going to do. What a waste of time, money and energy. I still think HGVC has some sort of grudge against Holiday Group.  It was a high enough offer in my estimation but HGVC didn't think so. Oh well---- off to eBay land.


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## PigsDad (Aug 7, 2008)

icydog said:


> Well now that I know the Flamingo has no ROFR that's what I am going to do. What a waste of time, money and energy. I still think HGVC has some sort of grudge against Holiday Group.  It was a high enough offer in my estimation but HGVC didn't think so. Oh well---- off to eBay land.


My guess is that it had nothing to do with Holiday Group, but rather that you were purchasing at the International Drive location.  They are if full swing of active sales there, and don't want the competition of resales.

Kurt


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## icydog (Aug 7, 2008)

PigsDad said:


> My guess is that it had nothing to do with Holiday Group, but rather that you were purchasing at the International Drive location.  They are if full swing of active sales there, and don't want the competition of resales.
> 
> Kurt



So I've been told. Too bad it looked like a nice property. I am going to concentrate on my Marriotts, DVC and now BG as well. Thanks for the post.


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## benjaminb13 (Aug 8, 2008)

icydog said:


> So I've been told. Too bad it looked like a nice property. I am going to concentrate on my Marriotts, DVC and now BG as well. Thanks for the post.



HGVC has been excercising rOFR recently. I encountered the same issue, excepting Flamingo, from what I hear.


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## PigsDad (Aug 8, 2008)

icydog said:


> So I've been told. Too bad it looked like a nice property. I am going to concentrate on my Marriotts, DVC and now BG as well. Thanks for the post.


If it is the International Drive location that you want for use, there is no reason you need to purchase at that location.  There has never been a problem getting reservations, even for the most popular weeks, for any of the Orlando properties if you reserve them at HGVC's 9-month window.  Just buy another HGVC property that has the points you need, and use them at the I-drive location.

Kurt


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## icydog (Aug 8, 2008)

You know it wasn't I-Drive that interested me. I wanted to use the 7,000 points to reserve a two bdrm unit on Sanibel or Captiva Islands. We stayed at the Sanibel Cottages and fell in love. We loved them so much we were going to buy there but then we figured if we bought HGVC we could trade for places like HI as well. I would never use the I-Drive location or the Flamingo for that matter. In Orlando we use our Marriotts or DVC. I can get a million different timeshares in LV for an easy trade with a weak trader. Besides my sister lives in Las Vegas. I could always stay with her. But LV is not my cup of tea (nor hers, as it happens!)


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## linsj (Aug 8, 2008)

icydog said:


> You know it wasn't I-Drive that interested me. I wanted to use the 7,000 points to reserve a two bdrm unit on Sanibel or Captiva Islands.



FYI: There's not a lot of availability for these properties through HGVC. They're not even listed on the Web site due to limited availability; you have to call CS.


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## icydog (Aug 8, 2008)

*Maybe I could find something in early Feb on those two islands*

We would go in early Feb before the REAL spring breakers get onto the scene. Maybe that would be easier to find. Yes, I know that the people who own there-- go there. Most of the folks by the pool have been going there for yrs on end. Then they pass the ownership to their kids and they go years on end.


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## Blues (Sep 9, 2008)

*Purchase has now closed*

Today I received a copy of the recorded deed, as sent from the Clark county recorder's office.  The deed was actually recorded on 8/28, but it took this long to get a copy.

The transaction is now complete!

Tomorrow, Timeshare Transfer will send a copy of the recorded deed to HGVC.  Hopefully I'll have the 7000 points in my account shortly.  Usage starts in 2009, but HGVC should show those 2009 points.

WooHoo!

-Bob


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## yumdrey (Sep 9, 2008)

Bob, many congrats! HGVC is pretty quick to update the new owners. In my case, it took only 5 days after they received the notification from closing co.
Enjoy your new 7000 points and thank you for sharing your purchase story!


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## lasvegasnewlist (Sep 11, 2008)

*Flamingo HGVC at $1.00 per point*

Thanks to your finding  No ROFR at Flamingo Hilton, I had Judy K offer $3500 for a 3400 point unit at Flamingo to add to our previous 21,000 points.  The offer was accpted and we closed escrow and title was transfered in under 30 days.  I know the maintenance fee spread is not as great compared to the 5000 and 7000 maintnance, but at a $1.00 a point, I'm a winner.


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## newlin99 (Sep 11, 2008)

Just wondering....

what happens when buying off of ebay, paying for the timeshare

THEN finding out its been ROFR'ed

is all money returned??


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## Blues (Sep 11, 2008)

As I explained in this thread, part of the closing process for HGVC is to get an Estoppel letter from HGVC.  The estoppel letter is where they either waive or exercise ROFR, among other things.  In my case, the escrow company did not request any money until they received the estoppel.  So if Hilton had exercised ROFR, there would not yet have been any money to refund.  (Of course, Hilton didn't have ROFR on my purchase, so that wasn't a concern).


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## CaliDave (Sep 11, 2008)

Some resellers require payment in full before they send ROFR and then send refunds. Make sure you use an escrow company


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## jscboston (Sep 13, 2008)

jscboston said:


> Question to the original poster (if you are still there).
> 
> How is your closing going?
> 
> ...



Looks like you beat me to the finish line.  I sent my final payment to the escrow company about six weeks ago, but apparently my seller still has not signed the documents to finalize this transaction.  As you might imagine, I am a bit frustrated by this.  Wish I had kept going and bid a little bit higher on yours!  Congrats again.


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## Kdudley311 (Oct 2, 2008)

*Purchased Memorial Day Weekend and Still Waiting....*

I bought my timeshare off Ebay on Memorial Day weekend.  On September 4, the deed recorded.  I'm still waiting on HGVC to recognize the additional points.  When I e-mailed them, they indicated 30-45 days.  I'm anxiously waiting to use my 2008 points for a 2009 reservation (I'm rescuing them).  Do you think it would do any good to ask the title company to nudge them along?


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## Blues (Oct 2, 2008)

Thanks for this report, KDudley.  My closing agent sent the recorded deed to HGVC on 9/10, and I also am still waiting.  In my case, I've already sent email to the closing agent asking them to inquire at HGVC, but I haven't heard back from them yet.  I think they consider this a done deal (the deed *did* record), so aren't giving it priority.

Please let us know when your points get posted to HGVC, and I'll do the same.

-Bob


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## Blues (Oct 3, 2008)

I just got the welcome letter in the mail, and have called in to get the new account registered.

I was hoping that the new 7000 points would go into my existing account.  But I was informed by the HGVC rep that affiliates and Hilton-owned properties cannot co-exist in the same account.  So I now have two account numbers.

My deed recorded on 8/28, but it took a while to get the recorded deed back from the county.  The closing company sent the letter to HGVC with a copy of the recorded deed on 9/10.  I got the welcome letter from HGVC yesterday, 10/2.

-Bob


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## CaliDave (Oct 3, 2008)

That is true.. however.. you only have to pay one fee.. and they will transfer your points from one account to the other, as long as the names are exactly the same on both deeds.


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## Kdudley311 (Oct 6, 2008)

*It pays to check up!*

Last Friday, I decided to make some phone calls.  What I found out from Mary Cruz (her first name) in the transfers department at HGVC was that the sellers of my timeshare (who own more than 1 unit) sent the wrong legal description to them for processing (it was for a unit they already sold), so they sent it back to the title company for correction.  I called the title company.  They have to record a correction deed.  I asked them if it was going to be six more weeks and they said no, it should be this week sometime.  They think HGVC will complete the transfer once the sellers sign the corrected deed and they fax it to them (before it's recorded).  I hope so too!  I will probably call HGVC back and tell them that if the deed doesn't record, they can always cancel my reservation.  I'm traveling in January and I don't really want to continue to risk that the resort I want will be full.  I have 7 others depending on me for their reservations (two two bedrooms).

Is Flamingo considered an affiliate resort?  Both deeds for the strip and Flamingo read the same....just wondering if I'll have two separate accounts as well (doesn't sound like a big deal if so but I'm curious).

Karen
Kdudley311


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## Blues (Oct 6, 2008)

Flamingo is an HGVC-owned resort.  You should be fine.

Glad you're getting your purchase straightened out, Karen.

-Bob


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