# "Marriott Beyond" - Vistana owners, please post in this thread ONLY



## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2019)

On the Marriott Forum there is a post regarding a new program called "Marriott Beyond," which supposedly is starting Monday, and includes Marriott, Vistana, and Hyatt.

*But the info came from a sales person, so color me skeptical.*

To avoid opening a million different threads on this topic, if such a thing comes to pass, I am asking Vistana owners to post in THIS thread, for the same of continuity.

Thank you for your assistance!


----------



## DannyTS (Jul 19, 2019)

given that this comes from the Marriott sales people and their eagerness to meet the MVC owners to show off this program, on the surface it seems that this is not what we were hoping for: cheap mass enrollment of the Vistana weeks. At least not at this moment.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Jul 19, 2019)

Wow, I am "beyond" excited.  

Denise, I am glad to see you getting this thread started.  

I am personally hoping for better management of the resort where we own many weeks and rent a lot of them each year, and that is SBP.  Got most of them free, some with free use, some with free use promised but not given (probably a SO block because I don't have those SO's).  

The only other Vistana resort we own is SDO, an EOY 2 bedroom in 1-52 season. 

I can see a future of Marriott getting rid of both of my Sheraton resorts because they don't want the burden of taking on the HOA's.  But that could be just paranoia after the roach issue of this week with two of our guests.


----------



## SteelerGal (Jul 19, 2019)

Actually it came from Hyatt Forum.  Hyatt is in the same boat as Vistana.  
Hyatt’a point system is actually similar to MVC.  However HPP is under performing so curious(16k buyin), so curious if MVC has actually created a new program.  
I know many thought Vistana would be first but if MVC is actually testing new product, Hyatt is small enough to test market response.


----------



## SteelerGal (Jul 19, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Wow, I am "beyond" excited.
> 
> Denise, I am glad to see you getting this thread started.
> 
> ...


I don’t see MVC getting rid of SDO.  Scottsdale is resort city and zero presence, TS wise, before purchase.  
Our last vacation was a RCI week because we have EOY.  TS resorts were full.  MVC will not give up a prime location to their competitors


----------



## echino (Jul 19, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> I don’t see MVC getting rid of SDO.  Scottsdale is resort city and zero presence, TS wise, before purchase.



Marriott's Canyon Villas...


----------



## controller1 (Jul 19, 2019)

I'm currently at Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas and have an owners update scheduled for Sunday morning.  I'll update this thread with anything the Vistana side is saying about it.


----------



## SteelerGal (Jul 19, 2019)

echino said:


> Marriott's Canyon Villas...


Phoenix.  20-30min from Scottsdale.


----------



## bogey21 (Jul 19, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> Actually it came from Hyatt Forum... I know many thought Vistana would be first but if MVC is actually testing new product, Hyatt is small enough to test market response.



This makes too much sense to be true...

George


----------



## CPNY (Jul 19, 2019)

Hmm, I do hope it’s hyatt, would love to see how this plays out. But isn’t there some sort of licensing issues with that on the Hyatt hotel side of things? Just basing that off of tidbits if read here but didn’t pay attention to being that I don’t own in Hyatt or MVC legacy resorts. It will be interesting to see. I was hoping it would be a bit later as I’m still waiting for my resale units to close on the Vistana side lol


----------



## CPNY (Jul 19, 2019)

@pchung6 Guess us little ole Vistana owners are only allowed to post in here hahah.  At my second Marriott this week. A renaissance. You can tell the difference


----------



## sparty (Jul 19, 2019)

Doesn't this sound like the well known diversity, inclusion, equity initiatives Marriott is doing?


----------



## DeniseM (Jul 19, 2019)

> Guess us little ole Vistana owners are only allowed to post in here hahah.



hahaha - in case you don't understand what I wrote above, I'm asking Vistana owners not to start multiple threads on this topic *on the Vistana forum.   *Sorry if that was confusing for you.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 19, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> Phoenix.  20-30min from Scottsdale.


Isn't Kierland in Scottsdale?


----------



## SteelerGal (Jul 19, 2019)

Yes. SDO and WKV are 5min away from each other.  Vistana had 2 TS in the same area and they thrived so I doubt MVC will get rid of SDO.


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jul 19, 2019)

Get rid of?
What does that mean?
Stop with the affiliation/branding?
Why would they do that, or even care?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SmithOp (Jul 19, 2019)

DavidnRobin said:


> Get rid of?
> What does that mean?
> Stop with the affiliation/branding?
> Why would they do that, or even care?
> ...



Its the chicken little effect, the sky is falling, things are changing, a few cockroaches came out of the woods.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CPNY (Jul 19, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> hahaha - in case you don't understand what I wrote above, I'm asking Vistana owners not to start multiple threads on this topic *on the Vistana forum.   *Sorry if that was confusing for you.


Haha It was a joke, I understood perfectly fine, hence all the emojis lol.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 19, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Wow, I am "beyond" excited.
> 
> Denise, I am glad to see you getting this thread started.
> 
> ...


They are selling Sheraton flex and Westin flex programs along with MVC DC points.  
3 resorts in a popular resort area that fit into each other their programs. Don’t think they would get rid of SDO. SBP on the other hand who knows. Does MVC have a beachfront property there? Idk if they would need SBP


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 19, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> given that this comes from the Marriott sales people and their eagerness to meet the MVC owners to show off this program, on the surface it seems that this is not what we were hoping from: cheap mass enrollment of the Vistana weeks into an integrated system. At least not at this moment.





SteelerGal said:


> Actually it came from Hyatt Forum.  Hyatt is in the same boat as Vistana.
> Hyatt’a point system is actually similar to MVC.  However HPP is under performing so curious(16k buyin), so curious if MVC has actually created a new program.
> I know many thought Vistana would be first but if MVC is actually testing new product, Hyatt is small enough to test market response.



Just to reiterate, there haven't been any reports from Marriott sales presentations that mentioned, "Marriott Beyond." That specific name - as if it's a real thing - came from an owner who's scheduled to visit a Hyatt next week and was contacted by an onsite sales rep to do a presentation because whatever this thing is, it's supposedly coming Monday. Speculation had already been swirling with respect to Hyatt and Vistana because of sales-speak that's been ramping up since they both came under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, so naturally the expectation is that if Hyatt is facing a something, Vistana will probably be facing it, too.

For what it's worth, if anything, all of this is eerily reminiscent of the 6/20/10 Marriott Destination Club roll-out that Marriott owners faced. Interesting times, for sure.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 19, 2019)

sparty said:


> Doesn't this sound like the well known diversity, inclusion, equity initiatives Marriott is doing?



That's the hotel company, Marriott, Int'l, which rolled out their "Beyond Barriers" marketing campaign last year. The timeshare company, Marriott Vacations Worldwide, is a separate company and this is the first that any TUG Marriott people have heard about, "Marriott Beyond."


----------



## CPNY (Jul 19, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Just to reiterate, there haven't been any reports from Marriott sales presentations that mentioned, "Marriott Beyond." That specific name - as if it's a real thing - came from an owner who's scheduled to visit a Hyatt next week and was contacted by an onsite sales rep to do a presentation because whatever this thing is, it's supposedly coming Monday. Speculation had already been swirling with respect to Hyatt and Vistana because of sales-speak that's been ramping up since they both came under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, so naturally the expectation is that if Hyatt is facing a something, Vistana will probably be facing it, too.
> 
> For what it's worth, if anything, all of this is eerily reminiscent of the 6/20/10 Marriott Destination Club roll-out that Marriott owners faced. Interesting times, for sure.


It would be really sad if these sales personnel are just throwing out vague concepts and false promises of a joint program that may or may never come just to get people at the table or to sign a contract. Clearly intentions are being made and if no program comes within the year and it turns out just to be a short term sales tactic, I’d say it would look terrible for MVC and it’s affiliate sales teams in these other programs as well. I guess we shall find out when Monday comes.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 20, 2019)

CPNY said:


> They are selling Sheraton flex and Westin flex programs along with MVC DC points.
> 3 resorts in a popular resort area that fit into each other their programs.



This sounds right. Setting up the sales force to cross-sell the existing Flex, DC and HPP programs would be a logical first step because the reps are probably complaining loudly that they have had nothing to offer to Vistana and Hyatt owners for almost a year who come to presentations. (E.g. we used the excuse "We are Vistana owners and thought you would have something to offer us on the merger to leverage our ownership." The rep was not happy because he didn't have anything to offer us so we were able to leave the presentation quickly i.e. we had a golden "Get out of jail" card. )

Cross selling points programs still doesn't allow booking other properties without owning the other portfolio, but if true, this would signal that they intend to keep the trusts of all 3 programs and then potentially create a layer via the DC exchange (or other mechanism) to book the three trusts.  Given @JIMinNC's excellent diagram of the MVC points system, adding those trusts to offer reservations via the general exchange would involve the least disruption and lowest cost infrastructure.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 20, 2019)

Here is the chart by @JIMinNC that I found helpful to understanding the current MVC program. Similar to DC trust in Red, I could envision similar Flex and Hyatt points trusts being added as their own red circles and eventually adding cross bookings into the DC exchange over time.

Deeded weeks would be similar to the green box and would be enrolled to participate in the exchange (For Vistana, there would be another yellow box tied to the Green Deeded week labeled "StarOption Exchanges." (MVC owners don't have this option because DC was their equivalent to the SO program.) What is unknown is whether the SO program will tie into the DC program or remain separate (I hope separate and Vistana owners will have the option to deposit in either exchange similar to II or SO today.)

Key question is how much it will cost to enroll and participate in the DC exchange (or whatever they call this)?


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 20, 2019)

CPNY said:


> It would be really sad if these sales personnel are just throwing out vague concepts and false promises of a joint program that may or may never come just to get people at the table or to sign a contract. Clearly intentions are being made and if no program comes within the year and it turns out just to be a short term sales tactic, I’d say it would look terrible for MVC and it’s affiliate sales teams in these other programs as well. I guess we shall find out when Monday comes.



Well we do know for a fact that SOMETHING is coming because the Marriott Vacations Worldwide CEO said as much in their last earnings call, and that has to be fact-based. We just don't know WHAT is coming. Next earnings call is the morning of August 1. Maybe they'll have another nugget for us to chew on and create another 34-page thread (at least the one on the Marriott Board is that long).


----------



## CPNY (Jul 20, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> This sounds right. Setting up the sales force to cross-sell the existing Flex, DC and HPP programs would be a logical first step because the reps are probably complaining loudly that they have had nothing to offer to Vistana and Hyatt owners for almost a year who come to presentations. (E.g. we used the excuse "We are Vistana owners and thought you would have something to offer us on the merger to leverage our ownership." The rep was not happy because he didn't have anything to offer us so we were able to leave the presentation quickly i.e. we had a golden "Get out of jail" card. )
> 
> Cross selling points programs still doesn't allow booking other properties without owning the other portfolio, but if true, this would signal that they intend to keep the trusts of all 3 programs and then potentially create a layer via the DC exchange (or other mechanism) to book the three trusts.  Given @JIMinNC's excellent diagram of the MVC points system, adding those trusts to offer reservations via the general exchange would involve the least disruption and lowest cost infrastructure.


It’s been saying that for the longest but every DC owner has fought me on it. They are under the assumption that the DC program is the future and will be the only program to survive. I offer the alternative which is an independent exchange where inventory is dumped in and owners exchange owned weeks or points to book what’s available.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 20, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Well we do know for a fact that SOMETHING is coming because the Marriott Vacations Worldwide CEO said as much in their last earnings call, and that has to be fact-based. We just don't know WHAT is coming. Next earnings call is the morning of August 1. Maybe they'll have another nugget for us to chew on and create another 34-page thread (at least the one on the Marriott Board is that long).


Yeah, it could be a simple exchange option to deposit in a cross program trust and book through II.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 20, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Yeah, it could be a simple exchange option to deposit in a cross program trust and book through II.




I’ll be surprised if II is involved. They’re mainly weeks-based, and points is the focus now. Plus I read somewhere that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has received some pushback from other II members to make sure MVC and VSE don’t have too much influence and to keep II focused on external trading.

Now they could do something interim with II like expanded MVC/VSE/Hyatt priority trades, but I think that would be just an interim solution. If they do announce something Monday that could be it, since they really haven’t had that much time to develop a whole new product form. But if that’s a false alarm and if it’s really 2020 as the CEO has implied, I think it will be something more than just II.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 20, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I’ll be surprised if II is involved. They’re mainly weeks-based, and points is the focus now. Plus I read somewhere that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has received some pushback from other II members to make sure MVC and VSE don’t have too much influence and to keep II focused on external trading.


I just mean using II as the platform. It’s how MVC used MVC exchanging for years. It’s how Vistana uses their internal priority exchange. Why not use the platform they own?


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 20, 2019)

CPNY said:


> I just mean using II as the platform. It’s how MVC used MVC exchanging for years. It’s how Vistana uses their internal priority exchange. Why not use the platform they own?


I added a second paragraph that addresses that, which you may not have seen since you were writing this. That could be an interim solution, but II exchanges are the past for MVW; points are the future. Any long term solution for them must be points based. They don’t want to make weeks more valuable. They want points to be valuable because that is their new business.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 20, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I added a second paragraph that addresses that, which you may not have seen since you were writing this. That could be an interim solution, but II exchanges are the past for MVW; points are the future. Any long term solution for them must be points based. They don’t want to make weeks more valuable. They want points to be valuable because that is their new business.


Makes sense. I’m thinking end of 2020 for any true combined program but I’m basing that on absolutely no facts lol


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 20, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Makes sense. I’m thinking end of 2020 for any true combined program but I’m basing that on absolutely no facts lol



There actually *is* a fact that supports the 2020 hypothesis. When the MVW CEO disclosed in the last earnings call that some sort of an integrated product form was in the works, he prefaced that disclosure with, "Looking ahead to 2020..."  So, I interpreted that as meaning that any kind of true integrated product wouldn't be rolled out until 2020. But that's just reading between the lines.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 20, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> There actually *is* a fact that supports the 2020 hypothesis. When the MVW CEO disclosed in the last earnings call that some sort of an integrated product form was in the works, he prefaced that disclosure with, "Looking ahead to 2020..."  So, I interpreted that as meaning that any kind of true integrated product wouldn't be rolled out until 2020. But that's just reading between the lines.


Oh look at that. I know things without knowing things haha


----------



## Denise L (Jul 21, 2019)

We were just at the Hyatt Highlands Inn and were invited to a one-hour presentation.  The sales person said it had something to do with Marriott.  DH wasn't interested in going ($125 resort credit sounded good to me), so we didn't attend.  But I was curious.  Oh well.  I wish they would offer incentives for just me to go.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> There actually *is* a fact that supports the 2020 hypothesis. When the MVW CEO disclosed in the last earnings call that some sort of an integrated product form was in the works, he prefaced that disclosure with, "Looking ahead to 2020..."  So, I interpreted that as meaning that any kind of true integrated product wouldn't be rolled out until 2020. But that's just reading between the lines.



Just a thought but I’m betting you know the answer. When does MVC’s fiscal year begin? I know sometimes a companies fiscal year and the actual calendar don’t match up.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Now they could do something interim with II like expanded MVC/VSE/Hyatt priority trades, but I think that would be just an interim solution. If they do announce something Monday that could be it, since they really haven’t had that much time to develop a whole new product form. But if that’s a false alarm and if it’s really 2020 as the CEO has implied, I think it will be something more than just II.



Now this makes sense to me. It fulfills the rumor of an impending announcement and sufficiently disappoints me at the same time.

Considering MVC utilizes the II weeks exchange program for internal weeks exchanges right now, adding all the ILG properties to the mix should be relatively easy. So it would be nothing for points reservations, which would be still be somewhere down the line (2020?) but allow ordinary week for week exchanges across brands without fees if your a “member”.

Of course owners could use points to weeks in the  II weeks exchange program. So it would still be inclusive for points only owners under those rules.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> Just a thought but I’m betting you know the answer. When does MVC’s fiscal year begin? I know sometimes a companies fiscal year and the actual calendar don’t match up.



Fiscal year is Jan 1 - Dec 31.


----------



## DannyTS (Jul 21, 2019)

I am not sure if the seasonality is a factor but if I were Marriott I would not announce it at the beginning of January since it is low season at many resorts and it would not help the sales force that much. From this prospective, announcing it in the summer would make more sense. As a matter of fact, I would have actually announced it already on July 1st. Of course it also depends on whether they have all the details figured out.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

I don’t see anything about “Marriott Beyond” in this thread yet, so why are there so many posts in this thread? Are you all so bored that you need to post the same comments in multiple threads? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

CPNY said:


> It’s been saying that for the longest but every DC owner has fought me on it. They are under the assumption that the DC program is the future and will be the only program to survive. I offer the alternative which is an independent exchange where inventory is dumped in and owners exchange owned weeks or points to book what’s available.



What I think you're still not getting is that the DC Exchange Company IS an independent exchange company. It's a legally-established separate component among all the components related to Marriott Vacations Worldwide's points-based timeshare product, that appeared to many of us at the 2010 introduction to have been designed with the expectation (or at least the possibility) that non-Marriott-branded timeshare systems would integrate seamlessly in/through it. The "alternative" you're suggesting already exists under the Marriott umbrella!


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> I don’t see anything about “Marriott Beyond” in this thread yet, so why are there so many posts in this thread? Are you all so bored that you need to post the same comments in multiple threads?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Yes.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> What I think you're still not getting is that the DC Exchange Company IS an independent exchange company. It's a legally-established separate component among all the components related to Marriott Vacations Worldwide's points-based timeshare product, that appeared to many of us at the 2010 introduction to have been designed with the expectation (or at least the possibility) that non-Marriott-branded timeshare systems would integrate seamlessly in/through it. The "alternative" you're suggesting already exists under the Marriott umbrella!



I was not aware of this. You assumed we all knew this, even after 800+ posts in the other thread. I was under the assumption the DC program was run directly by MVC, just like the StarOptions program is run by Vistana.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

CPNY said:


> I just mean using II as the platform. It’s how MVC used MVC exchanging for years. It’s how Vistana uses their internal priority exchange. Why not use the platform they own?



It's already been known for quite some time, going back even further than MVW's acquisition of ILG, that MVW has been utilizing some aspects of the II platform in day-to-day performance of the DC. I'm not sure if the entire scope of affected performance has ever been unearthed but there are others who have drilled down into this much more than I have. So, to answer your question, they do.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 21, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> Considering MVC utilizes the II weeks exchange program for internal weeks exchanges right now, adding all the ILG properties to the mix should be relatively easy. So it would be nothing for points reservations, which would be still be somewhere down the line (2020?) but allow ordinary week for week exchanges *across brands* *without fees* if your a “member”.


Marriott did not buy ILG to lose money.  Without fees?  No such luck.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I am not sure if the seasonality is a factor but if I were Marriott I would not announce it at the beginning of January since it is low season at many resorts and it would not help the sales force that much. From this prospective, announcing it in the summer would make more sense. As a matter of fact, I would have actually announced it already on July 1st. Of course it also depends on whether they have all the details figured out.
> 
> View attachment 12948



Putting a program in place requires changes to IT infrastructure. That will impact timing a lot. Changing IT takes time.  It’s only been 10 months since the transaction closed.

With so many resorts in warm weather destinations where first quarter IS high season, timeshare seasonality is not nearly as seasonal as the overall hotel market in the chart. Here are the last four quarters of Marriott Vacations Worldwide’s vacation ownership contract sales. These are just for legacy MVW and do not include ILG for comparability:

Q1 2019 - $201 million
Q4 2018 - $224 million
Q3 2018 - $252 million
Q2 2018 - $205 million

So there is seasonality, but it’s not extreme.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> I was not aware of this. You assumed we all knew this, even after 800+ posts in the other thread. I was under the assumption the DC program was run directly by MVC, just like the StarOptions program is run by Vistana.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I thought I'd been clear in saying a number of times that the three basic components of the DC are the Trust, the Points that correlate to the Trust, and the Exchange Company. Even though their exchange company was developed and introduced under the MVW umbrella, it still is an independent entity that could function as a vehicle for non-Marriott-branded timeshares, including any that are outside the MVW umbrella.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> I was not aware of this. You assumed we all knew this, even after 800+ posts in the other thread. I was under the assumption the DC program was run directly by MVC, just like the StarOptions program is run by Vistana.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



The DC Exchange is run by Marriott. It is part of the Marriott Vacations umbrella. But as Sue said, it was set up and configured in a way that “affiliate” programs can participate. See the diagram in post 24


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> I thought I'd been clear in saying a number of times that the three basic components of the DC are the Trust, the Points that correlate to the Trust, and the Exchange Company. Even though their exchange company was developed and introduced under the MVW umbrella, it still is an independent entity that could function as a vehicle for non-Marriott-branded timeshares, including any that are outside the MVW umbrella.



Is the DC an independent company with its own management? Based even on your statement of how it started I would assume it has tight ties to Marriott, and it appears (I’m making an assumption) that its only customer is Marriott. I think you’re using the word “independent” very loosely here. 

Any corporate owned system, of any type, can be modified to encompass additional features. By the same token as your independent DC, I could postulate that Marriott will opt to adopt StarOptions and use the Vistana exchange system...and then bundle Hyatt and whatever other systems they want into it. Or, as has been said, II. It won’t, but I can speculate...and I know you enjoy that... 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> The DC Exchange is run by Marriott. It is part of the Marriott Vacations umbrella. But as Sue said, it was set up and configured in a way that “affiliate” programs can participate. See the diagram in post 24



I saw your diagram in the million post thread and thought it helpful. It still isn’t independent by any practical definition (based on my understanding).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> I saw your diagram in the million post thread and thought it helpful. It still isn’t independent by any practical definition (based on my understanding).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Not “independent” from a management perspective, but set up in a way that affiliate programs can participate. Think of VSN as an affiliate. It’s also managed by Marriott now but is a separate program. It could just become another red circle in the diagram - a mirror of the red circle called DC Trust.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

In other words, the DC Exchange Company is not management independent, but is a separate legal entity from the DC Trust but under Marriott’s control.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Not “independent” from a management perspective, but set up in a way that affiliate programs can participate. Think of VSN as an affiliate. It’s also managed by Marriott now but is a separate program. It could just become another red circle in the diagram - a mirror of the red circle called DC Trust.



Jim,

I understand the point. I took issue with Sue’s characterization of the situation in her response to another post. She was surprised we did not know that it was independent, and it’s...not, yet she thinks it is. It is not independent, as it is controlled by Marriott. 

Ken


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> In other words, the DC Exchange Company is not management independent, but is a separate legal entity from the DC Trust but under Marriott’s control.



Of course! In fact, that is the very reason I posted a reply!

That still doesn’t impact Sue’s contention that because it is independent it fulfills the role as suggested by an earlier post. We are losing focus here. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> Is the DC an independent company with its own management? Based even on your statement of how it started I would assume it has tight ties to Marriott, and it appears (I’m making an assumption) that its only customer is Marriott. I think you’re using the word “independent” very loosely here.
> 
> Any corporate owned system, of any type, can be modified to encompass additional features. By the same token as your independent DC, I could postulate that Marriott will opt to adopt StarOptions and use the Vistana exchange system...and then bundle Hyatt and whatever other systems they want into it. Or, as has been said, II. It won’t, but I can speculate...and I know you enjoy that...
> 
> ...



It's not an independent exchange company as one thinks of RCI, II, etc being independent, no. But it's an independent vehicle for exchanges that comes under the MVW umbrella. (And of course, now II is under that same umbrella.)

This is a version of the Exchange Procedures document that was rolled out in 2010. I know, it's a waste of time to read the whole thing but just look at Section II that starts on the first page. Considering that it legally-defines the types of membership according to whether a person has purchased Trust Points that correlate to intervals conveyed to the Trust, i.e. "Trust Members," as opposed to those who can enroll existing ownerships, "Affiliated Members," and considering that it allows for other timeshare companies to integrate easily via an affiliation agreement, I really don't think that much modification will be necessary.

Owners of enrolled Marriott Weeks are, by definition, "Affiliated Members," who can elect annually to exchange their Weeks for the number of DC Exchange Points that MVW has determined. I think the set-up allows exactly the same to Hyatt/Vistana owners, IF that's what MVW wants to offer them.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> Of course! In fact, that is the very reason I posted a reply!
> 
> That still doesn’t impact Sue’s contention that because it is independent it fulfills the role as suggested by an earlier post. We are losing focus here.
> 
> ...



Sue didn’t say it was independent of Marriott. She said it was a independent component of Marriott’s program - meaning it is independent of the Trust and the individual weeks. Neither is VSN independent of Marriott, but it is a separate component that COULD become an input to the DC Exchange Company. Anything MVW develops is still an internal program since they now own it all.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Sue didn’t say it was independent of Marriott. She said it was a independent component of Marriott’s program - meaning it is independent of the Trust and the individual weeks.



She said: 



SueDonJ said:


> Even though their exchange company was developed and introduced under the MVW umbrella, it still is an independent entity that could function as a vehicle for non-Marriott-branded timeshares, including any that are outside the MVW umbrella.



The words “independent entity” is what triggered my response. It is not independent by any practical definition.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> The words “independent entity” is what triggered my response. It is not independent by any practical definition.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



It IS an independent entity from the Trust. “Separate entity” might be a slightly more accurate description.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> It IS an independent entity from the Trust. “Separate entity” might be a slightly more accurate description.



Technically, it may be independent, but yes “separate” or perhaps “fully controlled division incorporated separated in an attempt to convince others it is independent” may be better. Words matter.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> She said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm stuck on how it can function independently from other components under the MVW umbrella, you're stuck on it not being incorporated or managed by a company other than MVW.

Can we at least agree that it could serve as the simplest way for MVW to integrate owners of non-Marriott-branded timeshares, such that cross-branding exchanges could be easily managed?


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> Technically, it may be independent, but yes “separate” or perhaps “fully controlled division incorporated separated in an attempt to convince others it is independent” may be better. Words matter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Words do matter, and I wouldn't say, "separated in an attempt to convince others it is independent." That phrase implies that I am being hoodwinked into believing something that isn't true. I'm not being hoodwinked. I know that as a matter of practicality and despite it coming under the MVW umbrella, the DC Exchange Company is an independent entity that does not legally limit participation to only people who own Marriott timeshares.

Come on, Ken! I'll admit to causing some confusion here, especially for those who haven't had 9+ years to become familiar with MVW's points-based business, but you also weren't clear in stating that your sole qualifier of independence seems to be whether or not MVW is managing the existing exchange company through which Hyatt/Vistana timeshares could be integrated if MVW chooses.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> I'm stuck on how it can function independently from other components under the MVW umbrella, you're stuck on it not being incorporated or managed by a company other than MVW.
> 
> Can we at least agree that it could serve as the simplest way for MVW to integrate owners of non-Marriott-branded timeshares, such that cross-branding exchanges could be easily managed?



I’m really not “stuck”. I was simply annoyed (sorry!) that you used the word “independent” when it was created, managed, run by, and designed specifically for MAW. Just like II is obviously biased (and always was, even when it was owned separately) the DP program is not Independent in any practical way. I’m not so concerned with the legalities, since I consider the entire timeshare industry rather incestuous.

I think it’s one of many ways that could be implemented to accommodate a goal of allowing multiple existing networks to exchange easily. I suspect it’s the way of the future if for nothing else that it was Marriott developed, there are more Marriott owners and resorts, and it is likely easier to migrate a lesser number of owners by keeping DP than any other solution. However, I think it’s fair to note that II already has an exchange system in place so they could also easily leverage that, if only as a phase one approach should there be other issues delaying a full integration. And we all know the industry IT is just horrible, so what would in almost any other industry be relatively simple can be a years long project in the timeshare world.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 21, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> I'll admit to causing some confusion here



Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



You're welcome. Good luck.


----------



## DannyTS (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Putting a program in place requires changes to IT infrastructure. That will impact timing a lot. Changing IT takes time.  It’s only been 10 months since the transaction closed.
> 
> With so many resorts in warm weather destinations where first quarter IS high season, timeshare seasonality is not nearly as seasonal as the overall hotel market in the chart. Here are the last four quarters of Marriott Vacations Worldwide’s vacation ownership contract sales. These are just for legacy MVW and do not include ILG for comparability:
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you, having the program ready is the most important factor. They want to make sure that IT support is there,  the staff is trained and that they iron out as many wrinkles as possible before the launch. 
Concerning the seasonality, from what I remember from an earnings call though, the sales numbers may be smoother on paper than in reality because they are recorded when the transactions close rather than when the buyers sign the papers. Q1 for example is boosted by the sales that actually happen during weeks 51 and 52, otherwise it would be even lower. Similarly, if an owner buys in August, the transaction may only be counted in October thus boosting Q4.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I totally agree with you, having the program ready is the most important factor. They want to make sure that IT support is there,  the staff is trained and that they iron out as many wrinkles as possible before the launch.
> Concerning the seasonality, from what I remember from an earnings call though, the sales numbers may be smoother on paper than in reality because they are recorded when the transactions close rather than when the buyers sign the papers. Q1 for example is boosted by the sales that actually happen during weeks 51 and 52, otherwise it would be even lower. Similarly, if an owner buys in August, the transaction may only be counted in October thus boosting Q4.



True about the revenue reportability adjustments, but even so, Jan - Mar is still one of the highest seasons with all of the resorts in Hawaii, Caribbean, Florida, etc.  Personally, that is also our “high season” for timeshare usage as well. I don’t think we’ve ever used our Marriott ownership in the summer - but that’s just us.


----------



## DannyTS (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> True about the revenue reportability adjustments, but even so, Jan - Mar is still one of the highest seasons with all of the resorts in Hawaii, Caribbean, Florida, etc.  Personally, that is also our “high season” for timeshare usage as well. I don’t think we’ve ever used our Marriott ownership in the summer - but that’s just us.


I thought you were rooting for an earlier announcement of the program 
Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my side


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 21, 2019)

DannyTS said:


> I thought you were rooting for an earlier announcement of the program
> Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my side



They’ll announce it when they do. I’m intrigued by what they might announce, but that’s more curiosity than real impact on our travel. MVC has most of the places we value, so Vistana only adds very marginally to our needs.


----------



## controller1 (Jul 21, 2019)

I just completed within the past 30 minutes an owners update at Westin Riverfront.  One of the salespeople called in sick so a manager met with us.

In answering my questions the manager said he had not heard of Marriott Beyond and was unaware of any imminent announcement.  He said none of their sales personnel had received any recent training.  He picked up his phone to start to Google Marriott Beyond and I told him not to bother as there is nothing on the internet about it except what is on TUG.

Not sure this is what everyone was hoping for but this is a manager who we've dealt with before and I think he would have done some hedging if there was something coming up.  Perhaps this means that _initially_ Marriott Beyond, if there is such a program, will only be for MVC owners.  Who knows?

Other things covered in the meeting were things that have already been shared on TUG such as Nanea and 5-Star Elite moving to Bonvoy Titanium.  If anyone has any questions, let me know..


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 21, 2019)

controller1 said:


> ... Not sure this is what everyone was hoping for but this is a manager who we've dealt with before and I think he would have done some hedging if there was something coming up.  Perhaps this means that _initially_ Marriott Beyond, if there is such a program, will only be for MVC owners.  Who knows? ...



There hasn't been a report from Marriott people about "Marriott Beyond" either. This initial report comes from a Hyatt owner who's checking in this week and got a call from a sales rep to schedule a presentation because supposedly something's coming Monday. Whatever it might be, if something happens, that's the specific name given to it by that rep.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 21, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Putting a program in place requires changes to IT infrastructure. That will impact timing a lot. Changing IT takes time.  It’s only been 10 months since the transaction closed.
> 
> With so many resorts in warm weather destinations where first quarter IS high season, timeshare seasonality is not nearly as seasonal as the overall hotel market in the chart. Here are the last four quarters of Marriott Vacations Worldwide’s vacation ownership contract sales. These are just for legacy MVW and do not include ILG for comparability:
> 
> ...


The 25% bump in summer sales over Q1 and Q2 seems to match up with the similar bump in occupancy rates for summer. Consider that the chart doesn't start at 0%. I would expect a summer announcement like they did in 2010.


----------



## Carol C (Jul 21, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Just to reiterate, there haven't been any reports from Marriott sales presentations that mentioned, "Marriott Beyond." That specific name - as if it's a real thing - came from an owner who's scheduled to visit a Hyatt next week and was contacted by an onsite sales rep to do a presentation because whatever this thing is, it's supposedly coming Monday. Speculation had already been swirling with respect to Hyatt and Vistana because of sales-speak that's been ramping up since they both came under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, so naturally the expectation is that if Hyatt is facing a something, Vistana will probably be facing it, too.
> 
> For what it's worth, if anything, all of this is eerily reminiscent of the 6/20/10 Marriott Destination Club roll-out that Marriott owners faced. Interesting times, for sure.



Maybe it's a misprint and it should read "Marriott Beyonce". Maybe she's the new Marriott spokeswoman, like her husband is for some cannabis mega- company in California.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 21, 2019)

Carol C said:


> Maybe it's a misprint and it should read "Marriott Beyonce". Maybe she's the new Marriott spokeswoman, like her husband is for some cannabis mega- company in California.


Oh... Puh-lease....  if that happens, I will quickly become an ex-MVC timeshare owner.


----------



## pacman777 (Jul 21, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> There hasn't been a report from Marriott people about "Marriott Beyond" either. This initial report comes from a Hyatt owner who's checking in this week and got a call from a sales rep to schedule a presentation because supposedly something's coming Monday. Whatever it might be, if something happens, that's the specific name given to it by that rep.



It’ll be pretty funny if we had all these discussions and posts about some BS that came out of a salespersons mouth just to get some guest to attend a presentation.


----------



## DannyTS (Jul 21, 2019)

it seems to me that the chances to hear anything new tomorrow are very low. Yet, would it be possible that they are just starting this announcement with the Hyatt owners? I just do not see a good reason for them to do so.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer (Jul 21, 2019)

pacman777 said:


> It’ll be pretty funny if we had all these discussions and posts about some BS that came out of a salespersons mouth just to get some guest to attend a presentation.


I wondered that also. I thought Marriott was starting with Vistana.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jul 22, 2019)

Just went to the Marriott owners website.......... crickets.

Must have said Marriott Beyond but meant to say Marriott Bonvoy.


----------



## DannyTS (Jul 22, 2019)

Given what we know now, I think we should put this matter Beyond us.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 22, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> Just went to the Marriott owners website.......... crickets.
> 
> Must have said Marriott Beyond but meant to say Marriott Bonvoy.


It was only meant for Hyatt owners...


----------



## pchung6 (Jul 22, 2019)

So, do we have any REAL update on this Marriott Beyond? Didn't someone from Marriott board, defending MVC big time last week and thinking they can access VSN for free, said will attend the Beyond presentation today?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 22, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> So, do we have any REAL update on this Marriott Beyond? Didn't someone from Marriott board, defending MVC big time last week and thinking they can access VSN for free, said will attend the Beyond presentation today?


The "Beyond" presentation was something offered to a Hyatt owner visiting a Hyatt property.


----------



## pchung6 (Jul 22, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> The "Beyond" presentation was something offered to a Hyatt owner visiting a Hyatt property.



Isn't that Marriott "Beyond" something related to Diversity and Inclusion initiative? I'm so confused how it turns out to be new timeshare program.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 22, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> Isn't that Marriott "Beyond" something related to Diversity and Inclusion initiative? I'm so confused how it turns out to be new timeshare program.


It started here.


----------



## Steve A (Jul 22, 2019)

I was at a presentation today at Marriott Summit Watch in Park City. I specifically asked about Beyond and as far as I can tell didn’t get an answer. Also I was told that if Vistana owners wanted access to MVC locations they would have to buy into the DC (or use II). He also said that MVC was currently establishing point values for Vistana timeshares. I don’t know if this is new or old information to Vistana owners.


----------



## Tucsonadventurer (Jul 23, 2019)

Steve A said:


> I was at a presentation today at Marriott Summit Watch in Park City. I specifically asked about Beyond and as far as I can tell didn’t get an answer. Also I was told that if Vistana owners wanted access to MVC locations they would have to buy into the DC (or use II). He also said that MVC was currently establishing point values for Vistana timeshares. I don’t know if this is new or old information to Vistana owners.


The new point values would relate to a combined program but we were told that if you continued to use the system as we do now to exchange internally in Vistana ,values would remain the same. That was from a Vistana owner 's update


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> It's already been known for quite some time, going back even further than MVW's acquisition of ILG, that MVW has been utilizing some aspects of the II platform in day-to-day performance of the DC. I'm not sure if the entire scope of affected performance has ever been unearthed but there are others who have drilled down into this much more than I have. So, to answer your question, they do.


So if they do wouldn’t it be easy to incorporate all if the inventory for all programs? Anyway, the Marriott beyond speculation was supposed to hit yesterday. I just got back on since Saturday. What did I miss? Lol


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> I thought I'd been clear in saying a number of times that the three basic components of the DC are the Trust, the Points that correlate to the Trust, and the Exchange Company. Even though their exchange company was developed and introduced under the MVW umbrella, it still is an independent entity that could function as a vehicle for non-Marriott-branded timeshares, including any that are outside the MVW umbrella.


That’s exactly what I thought. That whole DC program is confusing. I’ll keep my staroptions and be quite content.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> So if they do wouldn’t it be easy to incorporate all if the inventory for all programs? Anyway, the Marriott beyond speculation was supposed to hit yesterday. I just got back on since Saturday. What did I miss? Lol



Yes, with the DC Exchange Company and II now coming under the MVW umbrella, it should be easy* for them to use one or both to integrate all the timeshares that also come under the same umbrella. Hmmm. Maybe the DC for "internal" exchanges and II for "external?"

* (Or at least easier than starting from scratch with a whole new thing.)

This all started with a Hyatt owner talking with a Hyatt rep, posted to TUG here. Until somebody goes to a Hyatt sales presentation or gets official notice, we won't know if that fairly-detailed speculation was a something or a nothing.



CPNY said:


> That’s exactly what I thought. That whole DC program is confusing. I’ll keep my staroptions and be quite content.



But what if you can keep everything you have now AND add something to it? Something that appears much more confusing than it actually is, as far as using it?


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> Isn't that Marriott "Beyond" something related to Diversity and Inclusion initiative? I'm so confused how it turns out to be new timeshare program.



The "Beyond Barriers" marketing/social awareness thing was rolled out last year by the Marriott hotel company, Marriott, Int'l. It's not a separate product/program offered by the separate timeshare company, Marriott Vacations Worldwide.

"Marriott Beyond" is the specific term used by a Hyatt rep as if it's a new thing for Hyatt timeshare owners, now that they're under the MVW umbrella. The TUG post is linked here; this is copied from it:

_>>... He said that Monday would be the first day of selling a new program called “Marriott Beyond”. I said, you mean Bonvoy? He said, no Bonvoy is the hotel points program, this is “Beyond”, where we can use our Hyatt ownership to exchange into all of the other Marriott owned properties. I said I had never heard of this program. He said that it is brand new, they just finished training for it, ...<<
_
Sure seems like both the TUGger and the sales rep understood why there could be confusion, and the TUGger asked the right questions.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> So, do we have any REAL update on this Marriott Beyond? Didn't someone from Marriott board, defending MVC big time last week and thinking they can access VSN for free, said will attend the Beyond presentation today?



Wow.

A Hyatt owner is misrepresented as, "someone from the Marriott board?"

Explaining how the MVW timeshare system works to people who may be facing an offer to be included in an aspect of it is misrepresented as, "defending MVC big time?"

Explaining how you might be allowed to enroll your ownerships in MVW's DC Exchange Company the same way Marriott owners have been doing it for years is misrepresented as those owners, "thinking they can access VSN for free?"

The telephone game is alive and well on the TUG boards.


----------



## pchung6 (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Wow.
> 
> A Hyatt owner is misrepresented as, "someone from the Marriott board?"
> 
> ...



Any update on Marriott Beyond? I still haven't heard nothing from MVC. Wasn't it going live on Monday?


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> Any update on Marriott Beyond? I still haven't heard nothing from MVC. Wasn't it going live on Monday?



You'll have to ask a Hyatt owner who's been to a sales presentation yesterday or today, that's where the speculation started.


----------



## pchung6 (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> You'll have to ask a Hyatt owner who's been to a sales presentation yesterday or today, that's where the speculation started.



Based on my prior conversation with OP, I thought OP was Marriott owner and just happened to be at Hyatt resort for the presentation. I just assume it is false alarm then.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> Based on my prior conversation with OP, I thought OP was Marriott owner and just happened to be at Hyatt resort for the presentation. I just assume it is false alarm then.



I have no idea if the OP, Sapper, owns Marriott timeshares or not but s/he posts knowledgeably as an owner on the TUG Hyatt forum. The first post about this supposed new thing being offered to Hyatt owners was put in the TUG Hyatt forum here, and then cross-posted to the TUG Marriott forum here (because speculation has been swirling about all kinds of things since Hyatt and Vistana came under the Marriott umbrella.)

You seem to want to denigrate Marriott in every way possible but continuously confuse the fact that the Marriott timeshare company is completely separate from the Marriott hotel company, you confuse where this "Marriott Beyond" thing was introduced on the TUG boards, you confuse whatever this "Marriott Beyond" timeshare thing might turn out to be with what the "Beyond Barriers" hotel thing is, even as a Marriott owner (of unenrolled Weeks) you're still confused about how MVW's Destination Club works ...

I get how the Marriott timeshare products aren't everybody's cup of tea. I get how the Vistana and Hyatt timeshare people want to keep their identity despite their companies being acquired by the Marriott timeshare company. I get that you hate that SPG has been absorbed into Marriott's Bonvoy by the Marriott hotel company. (And believe me, Marriott Rewards people aren't all that thrilled with the new name either!)

But like I said before, I don't get deliberately misrepresenting or completely discounting what the Marriott timeshare owners are saying that might help you come out of the fog of confusion. Everybody needs a villain, I guess, and obviously "Marriott" is yours.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Yes, with the DC Exchange Company and II now coming under the MVW umbrella, it should be easy* for them to use one or both to integrate all the timeshares that also come under the same umbrella. Hmmm. Maybe the DC for "internal" exchanges and II for "external?"
> 
> * (Or at least easier than starting from scratch with a whole new thing.)
> 
> ...


If I can keep what I have and add that would be amazing. But if the cost is too high to add I’d be content with keeping what I had. It would be nice to cross book MVC resorts but if I have to pay more I’m not sure it would be worth it based on my travel desires. While Marriott has some pretty excellent resorts, the ones I tend to visit now I’m good with. I guess I’m a creature of habit and want to be able to do and go where I enjoy. While the ability to go to MVC in Phuket would be kind of cool though


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> I have no idea if the OP, Sapper, owns Marriott timeshares or not but s/he posts knowledgeably as an owner on the TUG Hyatt forum. The first post about this supposed new thing being offered to Hyatt owners was put in the TUG Hyatt forum here, and then cross-posted to the TUG Marriott forum here (because speculation has been swirling about all kinds of things since Hyatt and Vistana came under the Marriott umbrella.)
> 
> You seem to want to denigrate Marriott in every way possible but you continuously confuse the fact that the Marriott timeshare company is completely separate from the Marriott hotel company, you confuse where this "Marriott Beyond" thing was introduced on the TUG boards, you confuse whatever this "Marriott Beyond" timeshare thing might turn out to be with what the "Beyond Barriers" hotel thing is ...
> 
> ...


well Marriott hotels and American Airlines are def my villains this week lol. But seriously, the whole Marriott beyond thing was thrown out there from a Hyatt sales presentation. He was told that the new program called Marriott beyond was to be rolled out as of yesterday during a sales presentation. I think the Marriott beyond was a play on beyond barriers which was an inclusive initiative if I read correctly? I think when ppl heard Marriott beyond the speculative new program that was never revealed yesterday people started googling “Marriott beyond”. Then everyone started bringing that beyond barriers into the mix, since that’s what came up. Once again the whole thing was blown out of proportion by a fake story being sold by yet again, another timeshare sales rep. The things we hear coming out of these presentations is getting slimy. I hate their tactics.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 23, 2019)

To be fair, companies that choose to license names of others don’t get a free ride in the realm of consumer perception. There have been some posts recently that more than suggest that since Marriott Hotels is a separate entity than Marriott VC (and various other affiliated companies) that nothing Marriott Hotels does should influence the perception of the other. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. 

While it’s obviously correct that these are two (or more) separate companies, they chose to license or use the name “Marriott”. They get the benefit of an internationally respected brand...and they get customers who expect a certain level of service and quality. And those customers can be rightfully upset if the expectation from any of those companies is less than “normal”. Conversely, if MVC does a great job, it will benefit Marriott Hotels. 

With this in mind, I would suggest that those MVC supporters who are posting reminders that the legal and operational separation between Marriott Hotels and MVC (& more) upon criticism of one (or the other) should instead agree that they (the staff at the various Marriott named entities, regardless of legal ownership) should simply do better. They can all do better (even the Hotels). 

FWIW, we had the same discussion years ago re SPG vs SVN. While it’s reasonable to point out they are truly separate companies, there is still the inherent linkage between them with the name (oh, and the ability to transfer points, make reservations at, and earn hotel points while at timeshares...) so it is completely reasonable for most people to assume they are one company. The same is true with Marriott. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 23, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> To be fair, companies that choose to license names of others don’t get a free ride in the realm of consumer perception. There have been some posts recently that more than suggest that since Marriott Hotels is a separate entity than Marriott VC (and various other affiliated companies) that nothing Marriott Hotels does should influence the perception of the other. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
> 
> While it’s obviously correct that these are two (or more) separate companies, they chose to license or use the name “Marriott”. They get the benefit of an internationally respected brand...and they get customers who expect a certain level of service and quality. And those customers can be rightfully upset if the expectation from any of those companies is less than “normal”. Conversely, if MVC does a great job, it will benefit Marriott Hotels.
> 
> ...



In pointing out the legal separation between Marriott International and Marriott Vacations Worldwide, I don't recall anyone trying to say that the perceptions one has of "Marriott" doesn't carry over to both companies - it certainly does. As you say, when you share brands, you also share perceptions.

For my part, what I was pointing out in at least one of these threads by calling attention to the fact that these companies are two separate entities were some of the references that because the BonVoy technical conversion was a disaster, we should all fear that any combination of MVC/VSE will be an equal disaster. I was simply pointing out that these two companies have two totally separate software engineering/IT groups, so the failure on Marriott International to do a good job with their conversion does not mean that Marriott Vacations Worldwide can't do a better job with theirs.

Having said that, as I noted in another post(s), Marriott Vacations Worldwide doesn't have a steller IT track record either - although so far their foibles have been more nuisances than the major issues Marriott International faced. But given the IT quirks we face from time-to-time in Marriott Vacation Club, I would not be surprised if any future integration had technical issues.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

Ken555 said:


> To be fair, companies that choose to license names of others don’t get a free ride in the realm of consumer perception. There have been some posts recently that more than suggest that since Marriott Hotels is a separate entity than Marriott VC (and various other affiliated companies) that nothing Marriott Hotels does should influence the perception of the other. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
> 
> While it’s obviously correct that these are two (or more) separate companies, they chose to license or use the name “Marriott”. They get the benefit of an internationally respected brand...and they get customers who expect a certain level of service and quality. And those customers can be rightfully upset if the expectation from any of those companies is less than “normal”. Conversely, if MVC does a great job, it will benefit Marriott Hotels.
> 
> ...



But I don't think anybody is saying that the brand perception doesn't exist despite the individual corporate structures. The criticism, mine at least, is that aspects that fall under one of the structures are being falsely attributed to that of another. Some of that is due to confusion that's unavoidable, sure, at least in the initial introduction.

But how many times is it necessary to say, for example, that the "Marriott Beyond" fairly-detailed timeshare thing that was mentioned by a Hyatt sales rep whose purview comes distantly under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide timeshare company umbrella, is a completely separate thing from the "Beyond Barriers" marketing thing that's affiliated with the completely separate Marriott, Int'l hotel company? Twice? Three times maybe? After that it's just a deliberate attempt to muddy the waters or prove a bias.

How many times is it necessary to point out that Bonvoy, the rewards program, is an entity under the Marriott hotel company umbrella, and that the affiliation between it and Marriott timeshares is practically exactly the same as its affiliation with Vistana timeshares? Evidently, a million times over, if you go by how many times the people who want to denigrate Marriott timeshares think they're being cute by saying they've been, "Bonvoyed."

Things have been made very difficult for all of us to keep straight between the timeshare segments spinning off their parent companies and then the Marriott hotel company acquiring the other hotel companies and then the Marriott timeshare company acquiring the other timeshare companies ... And like it or not, the legal company structures have a great deal to do with what might be possible and what's not possible as far as our individual ownerships. Whether or not somebody wants to dive into it all headfirst is a choice that it's perfectly understandable some won't make - but some will, and their contributions can help all of us learn.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 23, 2019)

FWIW, many of us have been Bonvoyed to some degree. I most certainly have. I didn’t receive credit last year for stays and when I attempted to inquire all that happened is that I wasted over an hour with a phone call and multiple emails with a result that “your stay did not qualify”. It happened again just last month. And, my lifetime nights was reduced once the integration was done, though I was assured multiple times that it would be fixed (nope). Marriott predictably didn’t get it all correct, and I’m not at all surprised. It’s the little things that matter, and this was a little thing. But this year it’s meaningful because I want the 10 night credit I’m entitled to as it will push me over Platinum again by the fall when I can actually use it. 

Anyway, I don’t see the need to repost what I wrote 30 minutes ago. I simply suggest that using the point that the hotel and timeshare companies are separate is a self-defeating argument given the tight integration they have in reality. In other words, there needs to be a better answer. 

So, does the fact that I have a poor opinion of Marriott IT due to the integration of the SPG and Marriott (Hotel) Points system influence my appreciation and expectation of a smooth integration of VSN with MVC? You betcha. I personally think the entire timeshare industry is behind the times in terms of tech. I’ve experienced several of the larger systems and none are designed properly. They work, kind of... it only took SVN/VSN ~8 years to realize their goal of allowing online reservations, and it’s still not perfect. II has always been a mess, as well. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## pchung6 (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> But like I said before, I don't get deliberately misrepresenting or completely discounting what the Marriott timeshare owners are saying that might help you come out of the fog of confusion. Everybody needs a villain, I guess, and obviously "Marriott" is yours.



I get what you want to say and I agreed with you 100%. However, being spoiled by SPG for 10 years and 500 nights. Then went through this Bonvoyed integration, which was just a total disaster. I'm still fighting for 3-4 night credits in 2019, 1 disappeared FN certificate, and 35000 pts double charged, and countless issues. This program has made me and my life very sick and tired, I already no longer wanted to remind front desk my status since they just don't care anyway (unlike SPG). I think I deserve my right to complain and upset whenever chance I can. I'm sorry to Marriott Vacation Club, I just view them as corporations under the same umbrella since they share so many things together.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> well Marriott hotels and American Airlines are def my villains this week lol. But seriously, the whole Marriott beyond thing was thrown out there from a Hyatt sales presentation. He was told that the new program called Marriott beyond was to be rolled out as of yesterday during a sales presentation. I think the Marriott beyond was a play on beyond barriers which was an inclusive initiative if I read correctly? I think when ppl heard Marriott beyond the speculative new program that was never revealed yesterday people started googling “Marriott beyond”. Then everyone started bringing that beyond barriers into the mix, since that’s what came up. Once again the whole thing was blown out of proportion by a fake story being sold by yet again, another timeshare sales rep. The things we hear coming out of these presentations is getting slimy. I hate their tactics.



Reading Sapper's TUG posts about the phone call he had with a Hyatt sales rep, immediately it brought back the memories of how the closer and closer MVW's rollout of the DC became, the more detailed information we were getting out of sales presentations and the more our speculation began to merge with the program that MVW eventually introduced. We didn't get it all correct, and some of what we thought might happen wasn't even in the ballpark, but we got pretty close.

I agree with you that googling "Marriott Beyond" brought up confusion, but not in the way you think. That googling didn't happen until after Sapper's posts. I think that if Sapper was clear in what s/he heard and posted, there wasn't room to confuse the Marriott hotel company's marketing slogan with a new name of something that the timeshare sales rep, at least, believes is a new thing for which he's been trained:

_>>We will be at our unit (Hyatt, Key West) starting this Sunday. I received the concierge call to make sure everything is ok for our up coming stay and to sign us up for the sales pitch, I mean owners update. I told him we are not interested in the HPP. He said that Monday would be the first day of selling a new program called “Marriott Beyond”. I said, you mean Bonvoy? He said, *no Bonvoy is the hotel points program, this is “Beyond”, where we can use our Hyatt ownership to exchange into all of the other Marriott owned properties. I said I had never heard of this program. He said that it is brand new, they just finished training for it*, and if I signed up for the 8:30 Monday Owners Update, I would be the first one to see the new program. I asked for him to email me some marketing material so I would have a better understanding of what I would be walking into. He said that he is not allowed to send anything until after Monday. I said I would have to discuss it with my wife. When I did, she rolled her eyes and was not favorable to sitting through another sales pitch. I’ll work on her, as I’m curious what this is.

Has anyone else heard of Marriott Beyond? I cannot find anything on it.<<
_
It's almost a certainty that MVW will be offering something to Vistana and Hyatt owners, if it's at all possible for them jump legal hurdles standing in their way, if only because they are making money off of the something that they offered to Marriott owners nine years ago. They'd be crazy not to expand their new timeshare segments in similar fashion! None of us knows what it will be, if it will be called "Marriott Beyond," if it's coming this week or two years or five years from now, but I'd lay odds on it that something is definitely coming.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> In pointing out the legal separation between Marriott International and Marriott Vacations Worldwide, I don't recall anyone trying to say that the perceptions one has of "Marriott" doesn't carry over to both companies - it certainly does. As you say, when you shred's brands, you also share perceptions.
> 
> For my part, what I was pointing out in at least one of these threads by calling attention to the fact that these companies are two separate entities were some of the references that because the BonVoy technical conversion was a disaster, we should all fear that any combination of MVC/VSE will be an equal disaster. I was simply pointing out that these two companies have two totally separate software engineering/IT groups, so the failure on Marriott International to do a good job with their conversion does not mean that Marriott Vacations Worldwide can't do a better job with theirs.
> 
> Having said that, as I noted in another post(s), Marriott Vacations Worldwide doesn't have a stealer IT track record either - although so far their foibles have been more nuisances than the major issues Marriott International faced. But given the IT quirks we face from time-to-time in Marriott Vacation Club, I would not be surprised if any future integration had technical issues.


The CEO has said Vistana had superior technology. I don’t see them combining using their independent entity they use for the DC program. I see them building a program that will be rolled out with success. Well, Vistana would have anyway.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> The CEO has said Vistana had superior technology. I don’t see them combining using their independent entity they use for the DC program. I see them building a program that will be rolled out with success. Well, Vistana would have anyway.



He certainly said *"they were more advanced on some of their digital personal apps than we were" *but I'm not sure that necessarily implies they will be adopting the VSE tech platform. It depends I guess on how he defines "digital personal apps" - some folks tend to refer to the entire web interface as a "digital app" others tend to mean only iPhone-type apps at the individual device level. Only time will tell, but if VSE does have better overall tech platforms, hopefully they will truly adopt best-in-breed from the combined entity.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> The CEO has said Vistana had superior technology. I don’t see them combining using their independent entity they use for the DC program. I see them building a program that will be rolled out with success. Well, Vistana would have anyway.



You're misrepresenting a quote from an earnings call. They are specific and precise during those calls because they have to be. We should at least try to follow their lead. That quote has nothing to do with the different timeshare products/programs that are offered by each brand under their umbrella, everything to do with contrasting the "digital personal apps" of each:

>>_*But there's some other things that we’re really positive on the other side. I mean, in the Vistana business – that's the vacation ownership side of ILG – they were more advanced on some of their digital personal apps than we were. So, we’re able to take that and apply it to us.*_<<


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> You're misrepresenting a quote from an earnings call. They are specific and precise during those calls because they have to be. We should at least try to follow their lead. That quote has nothing to do with the different timeshare products/programs that are offered by each brand under their umbrella, everything to do with contrasting the "digital personal apps" of each:
> 
> >>_*But there's some other things that we’re really positive on the other side. I mean, in the Vistana business – that's the vacation ownership side of ILG – they were more advanced on some of their digital personal apps than we were. So, we’re able to take that and apply it to us.*_<<


Correct. More advanced = superior. Digital apps are not restricted to cell phone apps that many think he’s talking about. App is short for application.

“A *web application* is a software *application* that runs on a remote server. In most cases, *Web* browsers are used to access *Web applications*, over a network, such as the Internet. Some *web applications* are used in intranets, in companies and schools, for example.”
“
 “*Technological applications* are the various ways a *technology* can be used in commercially useful products.”

When I book reservations on the website I’m booking it on their application. Their digital application. More advanced. 

So yes, Vistana has superior digital apps. I.e “technology”


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

A *web application* is a software *application* that runs on a remote server. In most cases, *Web* browsers are used to access *Web applications*, over a network, such as the Internet. Some *web applications* are used in intranets, in companies and schools, for example. Vistana technology is more superior. Considering all the complaints I’ve heard about MVC. T tech on the user side in the short time I’ve been on here, I’d say VSE was superior. That’s my perception and perception is reality 





JIMinNC said:


> He certainly said *"they were more advanced on some of their digital personal apps than we were" *but I'm not sure that necessarily implies they will be adopting the VSE tech platform. It depends I guess on how he defines "digital personal apps" - some folks tend to refer to the entire web interface as a "digital app" others tend to mean only iPhone-type apps at the individual device level. Only time will tell, but if VSE does have better overall tech platforms, hopefully they will truly adopt best-in-breed from the combined entity.


----------



## pchung6 (Jul 23, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> I'm not sure that necessarily implies they will be adopting the VSE tech platform.



If history is an indicator, MVC will come out with another Bonvoy-like program. It will be fun.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> A *web application* is a software *application* that runs on a remote server. In most cases, *Web* browsers are used to access *Web applications*, over a network, such as the Internet. Some *web applications* are used in intranets, in companies and schools, for example. Vistana technology is more superior. Considering all the complaints I’ve heard about MVC. T tech on the user side in the short time I’ve been on here, I’d say VSE was superior. That’s my perception and perception is reality



Yes, "apps" can mean any kind of software application. Not to overly parse words, but the key word in the quote may be "personal". What does he mean by "personal apps"? If he had just said "apps" then it could apply to any kind of software application. The use of "personal apps" could mean he is just talking about the more consumer-facing, device-level apps, but there's no way to be sure.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

JIMinNC said:


> Yes, "apps" can mean any kind of software application. Not to overly parse words, but the key word in the quote may be "personal". What does he mean by "personal apps"? If he had just said "apps" then it could apply to any kind of software application. The use of "personal apps" could mean he is just talking about the more consumer-facing, device-level apps, but there's no way to be sure.


Or just the consumer facing platform that we use to book using our star options. The mobile app VSE has while great isn’t too functional. You can’t book or do much other than check star options calendars and “explore” resorts. If it’s the mobile app I would assume he would have said “mobile app”. I take it as the Vistana dashboard we have on our site that we book from.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Correct. More advanced = superior. Digital apps are not restricted to cell phone apps that many think he’s talking about. App is short for application.
> 
> “A *web application* is a software *application* that runs on a remote server. In most cases, *Web* browsers are used to access *Web applications*, over a network, such as the Internet. Some *web applications* are used in intranets, in companies and schools, for example.”
> “
> ...



Yes, superior technology as far as web applications or phone apps. But it seems to be quite a stretch to say - based on the exec's comment about digital technology - that MVW will scrap the Destination Club points-based timeshare exchange entity which took almost a decade to develop and which has been successfully contributing to their business for almost ten years, in favor of a something that VSN hadn't developed but if they had it would have been better.

By the way, since MVW acquired the Vistana/Hyatt companies, the Marriott owners' website has been upgraded and is much more user-friendly. Maybe that's in some ways an adoption of the VSN superior technology that this exec talked about?


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Jul 23, 2019)

I hope they take their time on the integration to get it right. Bonvoy was a huge mess and I still don't trust the system to get our points posted correctly. I am in no rush to get access to MVC because we could be perfectly content with using Vistana and trading via SOs. When we started going through the portfolio, Vistana had the properties we wanted to visit the most.  Hyatt was #2, then MVC.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 23, 2019)

pchung6 said:


> If history is an indicator, MVC will come out with another Bonvoy-like program. It will be fun.



Actually, the current MVC customer-facing system is much improved over what it was five years ago, when we first became MVC owners. It still has it's quirks, but the way it presents reservations and availability in the DC Points system is reasonably intuitive and it generally works. There is some functionality that many wish were there - like allowing multi-week owners to reserve their week at the 13-month multi-week window - but that was something the old legacy systems never allowed, and I can't see MVC investing system development time to enhance the old weeks system, since that system no longer generates sales. Sometimes system availability can be a bit flakey, but even that seems better lately.

The key is what does the back-end of their system look like and how scalable is it? What kind of issues would arise by adding Vistana transaction volume on top of the MVC volume. Sometimes systems like these look good on the front end, but the back-end is basically a pieced-together mess of semi-compatible systems. Everything is stable until a change is introduced. That's when integrations become disasters. I seem to recall that Marriott Vacations Worldwide outsources at least some of the IT operation to a third party. I have no idea if that is just the hardware/server operation or also includes software development.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Yes, superior technology as far as web applications or phone apps. But it seems to be quite a stretch to say - based on the exec's comment about digital technology - that MVW will scrap the Destination Club points-based timeshare exchange entity which took almost a decade to develop and which has been successfully contributing to their business for almost ten years, in favor of a something that VSN hadn't developed but if they had it would have been better.


A decade to develop doesn’t mean its worth keeping. Technology isn’t the the DC program, no one is calling the DC program inferior. They can move their whole operating system to a completely new platform. It happens constantly in business. If one of their new businesses they bought has better digital applications, You can think they would adapt the whole program for their DC program or parts of the digital apps to make the user experience better. So yes, I would say it doesn’t matter if the independent entity they use for the DC program took nearly a decade to build out. Sue, you seem like a smart one, surely even you know they could scrap the digital exchange program or entity in favor of something else that’s more advanced, if they found or purchased something more advanced. Once again, bigger doesn’t always mean better. But no, they most likely aren’t changing the whole dc exchange entity, but if they find or bought a better digital solution they can build a joint program using that program, they just might. I think MVC owners automatically think the DC program is going to be the “it” program and everything else has to “fit” into that, including the booking APPlication. Meanwhile you might be dumping your DC points into another application to book inventory across all brands.


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Or just the consumer facing platform that we use to book using our star options. The mobile app VSE has while great isn’t too functional. You can’t book or do much other than check star options calendars and “explore” resorts. If it’s the mobile app I would assume he would have said “mobile app”. I take it as the Vistana dashboard we have on our site that we book from.



That's certainly a very plausible interpretation of what he meant. Either way, I hope they get it right.


----------



## dioxide45 (Jul 23, 2019)

IMO, the Vistana website and dashboard is much more intuitive than that of MVC online system. Of course I don't book with points to really understand the DC reservation system and I always call to make 13 month weeks reservations, but so far I find myself preferring to use the Vistana website. Even finding basic things on the Marriott website is a pain where most of those things are linked right on the front page of the Vistana dashboard.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> IMO, the Vistana website and dashboard is much more intuitive than that of MVC online system. Of course I don't book with points to really understand the DC reservation system and I always call to make 13 month weeks reservations, but so far I find myself preferring to use the Vistana website. Even finding basic things on the Marriott website is a pain where most of those things are linked right on the front page of the Vistana dashboard.


I think that’s what the CEO Was referring to. I hope they don’t mess with the Vistana page. Don’t care what they do with a joint program or the DC exchange. I want to keep my dashboard. Maybe even have the mobile app able to book reservations


----------



## JIMinNC (Jul 23, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> IMO, the Vistana website and dashboard is much more intuitive than that of MVC online system. Of course I don't book with points to really understand the DC reservation system and I always call to make 13 month weeks reservations, but so far I find myself preferring to use the Vistana website. Even finding basic things on the Marriott website is a pain where most of those things are linked right on the front page of the Vistana dashboard.



I agree, the biggest issue with the MVC site is navigation - lots of layers and menus to navigate through. But once you get into the DC Points reservation engine (and the Weeks engine as well), I like the way they present availability in calendar format. You can see which days are available over each month in one glance. Now that they have enhanced that to allow filtering on view and unit size, it's even better.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> A decade to develop doesn’t mean its worth keeping. Technology isn’t the the DC program, no one is calling the DC program inferior. They can move their whole operating system to a completely new platform. It happens constantly in business. If one of their new businesses they bought has better digital applications, You can think they would adapt the whole program for their DC program or parts of the digital apps to make the user experience better. So yes, I would say it doesn’t matter if the independent entity they use for the DC program took nearly a decade to build out. Sue, you seem like a smart one, surely even you know they could scrap the digital exchange program or entity in favor of something else that’s more advanced, if they found or purchased something more advanced. Once again, bigger doesn’t always mean better. But no, they most likely aren’t changing the whole dc exchange entity, but if the find a better digital solution they can build a joint program using that program, they just might. I think MVC owners automatically think the DC program is going to be the “it” program and everything else has to “fit” into that. Meanwhile you can be dumping your DC points into another application to book inventory across all brands.



The thing is, I'm not bending over backwards and doing superhuman gymnastics here to try to make Vistana and Hyatt timeshares fit into something that MVW might be able to make work but maaaaaaaaybe not .... No. It's easy to imagine that Vistana and Hyatt timeshares could be integrated into the DC Exchange Company on the same or similar basis as how the existing Marriott Weeks were integrated into it at the DC inception. So easy that many of us noted back then in the early days of the DC, when we were still digging through all the docs (many of which required state/federal approval) to figure out the corporate structure and our new website interface, "hey, this exchange company is set up to function independently with timeshares that have nothing to do with Marriott, if only those companies enter into affiliation agreements with MVW! You know, like they do now with II or RCI!"

Up there you said, _"The CEO has said Vistana had superior technology. I don’t see them combining using their independent entity they use for the DC program. I see them building a program that will be rolled out with success. Well, Vistana would have anyway," _which is a completely different animal from MVW upgrading their platform technology to take advantage of what they acquired from Vistana.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> The thing is, I'm not bending over backwards and doing superhuman gymnastics here to try to make Vistana and Hyatt timeshares fit into something that MVW might be able to make work but maaaaaaaaybe not .... No. It's easy to imagine that Vistana and Hyatt timeshares could be integrated into the DC Exchange Company on the same or similar basis as how the existing Marriott Weeks were integrated into it at the DC inception. So easy that many of us noted back then in the early days of the DC, when we were still digging through all the docs and our new website interface, "hey, this exchange company is set up to function independently with timeshares that have nothing to do with Marriott, if only those companies sign affiliation agreements with MVW! You know, like they do now with II or RCI!"
> 
> Up there you said, _"The CEO has said Vistana had superior technology. I don’t see them combining using their independent entity they use for the DC program. I see them building a program that will be rolled out with success. Well, Vistana would have anyway," _which is a completely different animal from MVW upgrading their platform technology to take advantage of what they acquired from Vistana.


Correct, but they also own II. But yeah, they could totally scrap that whole exchange entity in favor of something better. It’s happened before in business and  it can happen again here. Or they can take these technological advantages VSE had and apply it to the inferior platform DC is operating on. But if this external exchange is a third party that means MVC could scrap it and reconfigure their internal applications and bring everything into a new application or build a new set up within II. I’m pretty sure when this entity exchange for the DC program you speak of was being developed, MVC didn’t own another Exchange company as they do now with II. So their vision may have changed. Maybe they wanted to build or partner with a rival exchange to II and RCI. But as it turned out, it was better to buy ILG that came with TS owners and one of its larger competitors VSE.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Correct, but they also own II. But yeah, they could totally scrap that whole exchange entity in favor of something better. It’s happened before in business and  it can happen again here. Or they can take these technological advantages VSE had and apply it to the inferior platform DC is operating on. But if this external exchange is a third party that means MVC could scrap it and reconfigure their internal applications and bring everything into a new application or build a new set up within II. I’m pretty sure when this entity exchange for the DC program you speak of was being developed, MVC didn’t own another Exchange company as they do now with II. So their vision may have changed. Maybe they wanted to build or partner with a rival exchange to II and RCI. But as it turned out, it was better to buy ILG that came with TS owners and one of its larger competitors VSE.



There's always been some kind of an incestual relationship between Marriott and II - if I'm remembering correctly, long before the timeshare segment was spun off of Marriott, Int'l, MI owned II and sold it. For years there were rumors that MI was going to buy II back, or II was going to buy Marriott ... then after MI spun off the timeshare segments there were similar rumors but with MVW taking MI's place in them. And we've known for quite some time that MVW has been using some unknown functions of the II technology platform in processing DC exchange reservations.

I wonder if during the DC development there wasn't an extension of the plan that included purchasing II? Maybe the DC was always meant to be the exchange vehicle for "internal" exchanges (among owners of the brands that come under the MVW umbrella who choose to enroll those ownerships) and II the vehicle for all "external" exchanges? For all we know, despite the corporate structures delineating the two completely separate exchange companies, all inventory machinations for the DC have always been functions of the II technology? Wouldn't surprise me, which if it's happening I'm sure the people who dive into the Annual Meeting reports and conference calls could maybe find the financial cross-overs.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> There's always been some kind of an incestual relationship between Marriott and II - if I'm remembering correctly, long before the timeshare segment was spun off of Marriott, Int'l, MI owned II and sold it. For years there were rumors that MI was going to buy II back, or II was going to buy Marriott ... And we've known for quite some time that MVW has been using some unknown functions of the II technology platform in processing DC exchange reservations.
> 
> I wonder if during the DC development there wasn't an extension of the plan that included purchasing II? Maybe the DC was always meant to be the exchange vehicle for "internal" exchanges (among owners of the brands that come under the MVW umbrella who choose to enroll those ownerships) and II the vehicle for all "external" exchanges? For all we know, despite the corporate structures delineating the two completely separate exchange companies, all inventory machinations for the DC have always been functions of the II technology? Wouldn't surprise me, which if it's happening I'm sure the people who dive into the Annual Meeting reports and conference calls could find the financial cross-overs.


Right I remember on a sales presentation in Aruba, I asked reservations are handled (VSE then SPG, you could only book over the phone ahhhh what a PITB that was). He said they used II and you could book any week at 12 months and that if I bought in Orlando I could book Aruba a year out. I didn’t buy it, the timeshare and well everything he was telling me and the line about booking any resort at 12 months. Maybe he was right. Idk, but i do remember him saying it was all done through II Which I found odd. It seems that MVC tech is inferior and is always using other third party platforms. Maybe now they see what VSE has and what we owners enjoy and plan on rolling that out and controlling all of the tech in house.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jul 23, 2019)

CPNY said:


> Right I remember on a sales presentation in Aruba, I asked reservations are handled (VSE then SPG, you could only book over the phone ahhhh what a PITB that was). He said they used II and you could book any week at 12 months and that if I bought in Orlando I could book Aruba a year out. I didn’t buy it, the timeshare and well everything he was telling me and the line about booking any resort at 12 months. Maybe he was right. Idk, but i do remember him saying it was all done through II Which I found odd. It seems that MVC tech is inferior and is always using other third party platforms. Maybe now they see what VSE has and what we owners enjoy and plan on rolling that out and controlling all of the tech in house.



Sounds like back then he was telling you how the Weeks system works, that you can book your owned Week 12 mos out and deposit it into II for an exchange to any other Marriott resorts or other resorts. Even though within II there is a Marriott preference (deposited Marriott Weeks are bookable only by Marriott owners for the first +/-21 days) and the "internal" terminology is used to describe it, exchanging a Marriott Week had always required it be deposited to II. (Excepting the few resorts in the Florida Club, which would make you bonk your head off your desk if we drilled down into that right now!)

Prior to the DC inception I don't think MI or MVW had been using the II platform to book home usage of Weeks. It started with the DC and then only for reservations booked using DC Points, but we didn't start hearing MVW people admit that they were using II technology platforms until a few years into the DC.


----------



## CPNY (Jul 23, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Sounds like back then he was telling you how the Weeks system works, that you can book your owned Week 12 mos out and deposit it into II for an exchange to any other Marriott resorts or other resorts. Even though within II there is a Marriott preference (deposited Marriott Weeks are bookable only by Marriott owners for the first +/-21 days) and the "internal" terminology is used to describe it, exchanging a Marriott Week had always required it be deposited to II. (Excepting the few resorts in the Florida Club, which would make you bonk your head off your desk if we drilled down into that right now!)
> 
> Prior to the DC inception I don't think MI or MVW had been using the II platform to book home usage of Weeks. It started with the DC and then only for reservations booked using DC Points, but we didn't start hearing MVW people admit that they were using II technology platforms until a few years into the DC.


Hmm yeah it was def more than 10 years go. I want to say around 15 at this point. Somewhere around 13 years ago.


----------

