# Maui Schooner energy surcharge



## AKE (Nov 1, 2009)

Just wondering if owners also pay the energy surcharge or if it is just the exchangers who get stuck with it.  I am getting more and more annoyed with resorts that nickel and dime - my resort doesn't add extra surcharges, why does the Schooner, and other resorts, have surcharges instead of including it all in the maintenance fee?  Hawaii's economy is in trouble - tourists are few and those that are here are spending less AND to make sure that the tourists who do come here want to come back (and I am being sarcastic here) you get dinged with an energy surcharge, a timeshare tax, etc etc. on top of the high airfare.  We have gone to Hawaii every year for many years but this may be our last visit for a while - enough is enough!


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## Fredm (Nov 1, 2009)

Hawaii has gone crazy. How much was the surcharge?


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## AKE (Nov 1, 2009)

For a 1-bedroom we had an energy surcharge of $5 per day = $35 a week + a timeshare tax of $30.01.  Neither is going to break me but I am getting very annoyed of constantly being dinged here and there.  Another example, got dinged with a $20 per bag charge from the mainland and another $10 per bag charge on Hawaiian.  I am waiting for the day when I am dinged $x for a steering wheel for my rental car -  .


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## barefootnAR (Nov 2, 2009)

AKE said:


> For a 1-bedroom we had an energy surcharge of $5 per day = $35 a week + a timeshare tax of $30.01.  Neither is going to break me but I am getting very annoyed of constantly being dinged here and there.  Another example, got dinged with a $20 per bag charge from the mainland and another $10 per bag charge on Hawaiian.  I am waiting for the day when I am dinged $x for a steering wheel for my rental car -  .



Yes, Schooner owners pay this, if we are staying at the Schooner. I'm glad it's not in the maintance fee. The way our board has it set up .. the person using the energy is paying not the owners who have exchanged.  The person staying at the Schooner is paying the occupancy tax not an owner who has exchanged.


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## AKE (Nov 3, 2009)

I have a reak problem with these types of charges.  When I deposit my week (SFX, RCI etc)  ALL fees are paid and exchangers have no annoyances. At the same time, I constantly get dinged with very innovative fees in Hawaii (e.g. water surcharge, energy surcharge, valet parking surcharge whether I park the car myself or have it valeted, etc).  I don't see the difference between the electricity used versus the water used, a parking space used etc.  Why not charge for every component of a vacatiion and soon you will find very little demand for resorts that do this (and I am talking not only of the Schooner but other Hawaii resorts as well). Thanks goodness that the majority of resorts outside of Hawaii don't follow these types of practices.


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## barefootnAR (Nov 3, 2009)

>>>Thanks goodness that the majority of resorts outside of Hawaii don't follow these types of practices.<<<<
So right..thank goodness other areas don't have super high cost of living..that their kw per hour is not over the top like Hawaii. Also thank goodness that the local government in other areas haven't put extra high taxes just on timeshares, even higher than resorts/hotels pay in property tax in the same area. Maintance fees are high in Maui. Now the state is raising the unemployment tax that employers have to pay from $90 per year per employee to $1040. per employee per year. Think what that does to the budget. Yea..things are different at the timeshares on Maui. So the "practice" we follow is to meet the challenge of living on Maui..as our board was explaining to us that the $1000 new sofa also cost $1000 for shipping..that means the sofa's bottom line was $2000. That's life in paradise.
We pay appx $1000 MF for a two bedroom at the Schooner then exchange to a resort where the MF is $700..huh.. That just gave me a "brillant" idea.. if an exchange person just ante upped the difference in the MF when they visited Maui then they wouldn't have to pay the surchage and county visitors tax?????just a thought.


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## AKE (Nov 4, 2009)

Everyone has a choice where to buy a timeshare - no one forced anyone to buy into a particular timeshare or a particular location. The problems that many people now face (in addition to the current economic crisis) are due to the fact that they did not do an analysis of all the potential costs associated with the purchase but rather bought on the spur of the moment. I always find it interesting that people will agonize for days when buying a car, but give them free tickets to whatever (worth around $100) and they will buy a timshare in a hour or two. Regardless of the preceeding however, if I use an exchange company then I have certain expectations such as " no nickel and diming".  My resort just went through a significant special assessment.  An easy out would have been to charge all exchangers an extra $X for a 'furniture depreciation fee' or whatever else one can dream up.  Obviously the HOA did not do this and the owners absorbed the cost.  Similarly we don't charge exchangers other innovative user fees.  Yes some of our exchanges have been to more expensive resorts, but so what... other exchanges we have made have been to cheaper ones so in the big scheme of things we probably have broken even.


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## LisaRex (Nov 4, 2009)

AKE said:


> Everyone has a choice where to buy a timeshare - no one forced anyone to buy into a particular timeshare or a particular location.



Everyone has a choice whether or not to exchange their timeshare to places that expect the user to absorb things like usage taxes.  Certainly no one forced you to exchange into Maui or to continue to exchange into Maui.

But since you're on your soap box, let me ask you this:  When you were looking into whether or not you could afford your home, did you anticipate the county tripling your property taxes from one year to the next?  Did you consider what would happen to your carefully planned budget if the electric company one day decided to impose an "Energy Fuel Surcharge" that is nearly triple the cost of kilowatt used... in addition to their already high rates?  Did you anticipate the economy tanking and that you'd be left holding the bag not only for your own MFs but the delinquencies as well? Because that is what is happening to Hawaii owners, through no fault of our own. 



> Regardless of the preceeding however, if I use an exchange company then I have certain expectations such as " no nickel and diming".



Apparently your expectations have not been met.  Maui owners can sympathize with you, though our "nickel and diming" from the government and utility monopolies are more like "dollaring" and, unlike you, we can't just decide to stay away from Hawaii until the storm subsides.   



> Yes, some of our exchanges have been to more expensive resorts, but so what...



The "so what" is that the owners who are forking out the MFs for these more expensive resorts are trying to find ways to spread the pain.  I bought in Maui because I want to travel there.   And I'm bearing the price of owning there. *I* didn't buy a cheap TS and then expect to be able to use an exchange service to trade into expensive places like Maui for no additional cost.  And if I did, you most certainly wouldn't hear me complaining about a surcharge of $5/day, especially to owners who are just getting their next round of MF bills.


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## AKE (Nov 4, 2009)

I bought a house that I could afford and did not mortgage myself to what I may not afford down the road and did the same for my TS (there were lots of nicer ones around but the cost, including maintenance was ludicrous). Similarly, when I bought my timeshare I did not buy in Hawaii because even 15-20 years ago the maintenance fees were significantly higher, some TS`s here were already using innovative fees and the cost of the airfare was a big consideration. I did my homework before I bought.

Everyone has a choice re what to do with their timeshare, whether it be to come and use it, exchange it, rent it, or, even give it away if it is no longer affordable.  Hawaii is not a hard trade - there is always availability (and I don`t own a Marriot or a Westin to get the trade).  As such, yes why buy when you can exchange, or rent for less than the maintenance fee. However, the point is being missed - namely the additional user fees that people get dinged with¯ whether it be $5 or $50 (and this was also a big topic in one of the major newspapers last week so obviously it is being noticed by others as well).


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## AKE (Nov 4, 2009)

duplicate post


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## LisaRex (Nov 4, 2009)

AKE said:


> However, the point is being missed - namely the additional user fees that people get dinged with¯ whether it be $5 or $50 (and this was also a big topic in one of the major newspapers last week so obviously it is being noticed by others as well).



And my point is that we Owners are just passing along the dings we've gotten.  We certainly didn't create them.  

As far as your mortgage, I stand by my comments.  I doubt you ever considered that the local taxing authority would triple your real estate taxes, or that your electricity rate would triple as well, any more than people who bought an SUV 5 years ago ever anticipated that gas would top $3 a gallon.  

Nonetheless, I can still afford my TS, but wouldn't ever exchange it.  Just about everything I'd exchange to would be a trade down.  That would be fiscally irresponsible.


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## barefootnAR (Nov 4, 2009)

Well said Lias Rex...
We bought on the resale market 15 yr ago after doing our research. Only twice have we exchanged. We have stayed all over the mainland and several places in Mexico with friends using RCI. Never have we regreted our Maui choice. This is the first time that I know of that owners are renting for less than MF. Hopefully, the sagging economy won't hold up our renovations and the special assessment will be voted in. However, after reading AKE post I just got an idea..maybe we could pass on the difference it takes to renovate buildings on Maui vs the Mainland. I might exchange then so the HOA could get extra $$$  :hysterical:


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## AKE (Nov 4, 2009)

re: As far as your mortgage, I stand by my comments. I doubt you ever considered that the local taxing authority would triple your real estate taxes, or that your electricity rate would triple as well, any more than people who bought an SUV 5 years ago ever anticipated that gas would top $3 a gallon. 

Actually, I have lived through, and survived far worse.  The recession of the early 1980's resulted in mortgage rates (in Canada) going from 8% to 20% in a few years.  We had just brought our first house and had a mortgage but it was at a low rate.  When we renewed three years later it was at close to 20% (basically tripled our payment AND OUR MORTGAGES ARE NOT TAX DEDUCTIBLE).  Our salaries had been frozen since we bought the house and continued to be frozen for a numebr of years after the mortgage renewal.  I also had new born and no family to assist with daycare so we also had hefty daycare costs to add to the tripled payments.  It wasn't easy but we survived and learned lessons for a lifetime (which we also used when we bought our timeshare -  )


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## LisaRex (Nov 5, 2009)

AKE said:


> Actually, I have lived through, and survived far worse.  The recession of the early 1980's resulted in mortgage rates (in Canada) going from 8% to 20% in a few years.



Then you certainly have my sympathy. Had you NOT been able to keep your home in that type of economy, then you can be assured that I wouldn't be pointing my finger at you and making remarks like, "I did my homework before I bought." which I find to be insensitive and snarky.  

IMO, there is a huge difference between setting yourself up for financial disaster (e.g. by taking out an interest only mortgage or buying a home knowing that you'll have no money left over to save for a rainy day, let alone a rainy year) vs. doing due diligence and then being rocked by circumstances beyond your control.


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## northpole (Nov 6, 2009)

From what I've seen in the TS industry, the Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT)is never included in maintenance fees, it's always an extra charge which is paid by the person occupying the suite, whether they are owners or exchangers.  The TOT is only due if the suite is occupied, and not when it is sitting empty, so it would be almost impossible to budget for the exact period that the units would be occupied.  If the TOT was included in the maintenance fees, and planned for 100% occupancy (which no resort ever has) then I would suggest that the extra TOT charged but not remitted would simply be pocketed by the developer. Also, many jurisdictions are increasing their TOT, and they can do so at any time, which would make them even harder to budget for.

One of the TS we own is with WorldMark (over 70 locations).  I prefer the WM locations where the local town does not charge a TOT, but it seems like more and more jurisdictions are choosing to charge one. 

As for energy surcharges and parking, I agree that they should be included in the maintenance fee.  If it's regular expense that is in the annual budget, it's by definition part of the resort's maintenance and should be part of the MF.  I don't mind, however, if extra services are offered for additional fees, such as internet, extra house cleaning, dvd rentals etc.


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## nazclk (Nov 6, 2009)

*nickel and diming*

I guess you just picked Schooner, where I happen to own,  as your goat. 
Many timeshares in Hawaii charge energy fees, even on the big island. I think it is posted in RCI when you do the trade. I guess if you don't want to pay it you could have not stayed there and went to a hotel.


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## BocaBum99 (Nov 6, 2009)

AKE said:


> Everyone has a choice where to buy a timeshare - no one forced anyone to buy into a particular timeshare or a particular location. The problems that many people now face (in addition to the current economic crisis) are due to the fact that they did not do an analysis of all the potential costs associated with the purchase but rather bought on the spur of the moment. I always find it interesting that people will agonize for days when buying a car, but give them free tickets to whatever (worth around $100) and they will buy a timshare in a hour or two. Regardless of the preceeding however, if I use an exchange company then I have certain expectations such as " no nickel and diming".  My resort just went through a significant special assessment.  An easy out would have been to charge all exchangers an extra $X for a 'furniture depreciation fee' or whatever else one can dream up.  Obviously the HOA did not do this and the owners absorbed the cost.  Similarly we don't charge exchangers other innovative user fees.  Yes some of our exchanges have been to more expensive resorts, but so what... other exchanges we have made have been to cheaper ones so in the big scheme of things we probably have broken even.



And everyone has a choice on whether or not they want to exchange to a timeshare that has an energy surcharge.

If you don't like the charge, don't take the exchange.  It leaves more available for me.  I gladly pay the exchange fee, the energy surcharge and the TOT because my total overall cost is still cheaper than the owner of the unit I stay in pays and for an equivalent hotel.

It goes both ways.


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## BocaBum99 (Nov 6, 2009)

redundant post


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## BocaBum99 (Nov 6, 2009)

nazclk said:


> I guess you just picked Schooner, where I happen to own,  as your goat.
> Many timeshares in Hawaii charge energy fees, even on the big island. I think it is posted in RCI when you do the trade. I guess if you don't want to pay it you could have not stayed there and went to a hotel.



I wouldn't try to apologize for the extra fees.  I would celebrate it.  Tell your Resort Manager to double the fee if they can so that the don't have to increase your maintenance fees.

If you own at a great resort and owners who have cheap stuff are getting into it, then they will keep coming even with the fees.

As long as you are maintaining 90% occupancy rates, I wouldn't let a few unhappy exchangers stop you from doing what is best for your own self interests.


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## AKE (Nov 12, 2009)

nazclk said:


> I guess you just picked Schooner, where I happen to own,  as your goat.
> Many timeshares in Hawaii charge energy fees, even on the big island. I think it is posted in RCI when you do the trade. I guess if you don't want to pay it you could have not stayed there and went to a hotel.



Its amazing how people can miss the point - like I have said throughout the posts, it is the additional nickel and diming that I am commenting on AND not every resort in Hawaii charges it.  Just for info, this was an SFX trade (not RCI) and there was nothing on the confirmation re the additonal charges. For comparison, I spent the next week at the Shearwater and there were no additional energy / water / air -  surcharges. As such I am guessing that Wyndham, which now manages a good number of the Hawaii timeshares, does not believe in such charges but includes them all in the maintenance fees.
You are correct though about staying in a hotel next time - there are great ones in Hawaii with fantastic facilities and the rooms are just about being given away so this is a great option (alas, I have already exchanged into Hiltons on Oahu and Hawaii for next year so I am stuck with them -  )


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## AKE (Nov 13, 2009)

BocaBum99 said:


> I wouldn't try to apologize for the extra fees.  I would celebrate it.  Tell your Resort Manager to double the fee if they can so that the don't have to increase your maintenance fees.
> 
> If you own at a great resort and owners who have cheap stuff are getting into it, then they will keep coming even with the fees.
> 
> As long as you are maintaining 90% occupancy rates, I wouldn't let a few unhappy exchangers stop you from doing what is best for your own self interests.



I guess if owners with cheap stuff are getting into a resort then the resort must be equivalent to theirs (as trades are always supposed to be equitable are they not?)


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## AKE (Nov 13, 2009)

Again you missed the point, whether it be Hawaii or anywhere else.  I am commenting on being nickel and dimed - the Schooner is an example of such a practice, the Shearwater (where we stayed the second week) does NOT do this.


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## nazclk (Nov 13, 2009)

*Fees*

Keeps the owner's fees down  hoooooooooooorayyyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## LisaRex (Nov 13, 2009)

AKE said:


> Again you missed the point, whether it be Hawaii or anywhere else.  I am commenting on being nickel and dimed - the Schooner is an example of such a practice, the Shearwater (where we stayed the second week) does NOT do this.



Shearwater is in Kauai, not Maui.  Maui County is trying to nickel and dime its TS owners.  Kauai is not. Currently, anyway.  But given that the entire state is something like 12th (behind California, Nevada, etc) in states that are having to cut services because tax revenue is so far down, then I'd say that more nickel and diming will be in our future.


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## Kauai Kid (Nov 28, 2009)

According to Consumer Reports this month the number one gripe people have is add on fees.

My number one is phone trees that do everything they can to keep you from talking with a human being.


Sterling


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