# Scenes From A Sales Update



## kds4 (Jun 15, 2021)

So, we went to our first update in 3 years at NCV. Not high pressure. Discussion focused on 2022 changes. Main points included:

1. New level above Chairman's Club rolling out in 2022.
2. No Grandfathering To New Level.
3. New level akin to Bonvoy Ambassador.
4. Reciprocity for new MVCI level of Ambassador to give Bonvoy Ambassador status (in negotiation with Marriott Hotels).
5. Minimum ownership requirement for new level 17k DC points. (Seems like an odd number, but whatever.)
6. Key benefits of new MVCI 'Ambassador' level include - 6 extra months of banking beyond Chairman's Club, 1 extra month for single night booking (14 months), 30% last minute discount (60 days or less) applicable to all properties within the MVCI portfolio, not just Marriot Vacation Clubs (when those additional brands become bookable in 2022).
7. Non-MVCI owners will be required to purchase a minimum number of points to 'play' in the MVCI portfolio (other than their existing ownership brand).
8. Ending enrollment opportunities for externally purchased weeks (date TBD) because the focus will be on selling to Non-MVCI owners (not remaining unenrolled weeks owners).
9. A points buyback option/program is coming, (but it is unlikely to be better than just selling the points resale and letting MVCI ROFR them - "you'll end up with more money in your pocket reselling yourself than selling back directly to MVCI's buyback option/program" - Not my words). 
10. There were a few other items like new luxury collection offerings, new tour options, etc.
11. $250 Visa Card or 40K MRPs for attending.
12. One time bonus of 4,000 DPs with 36 month expiration included with a purchase of 2k or more points.
13. Prices rolled back to $11.68 pp until 6/30/21.
14. With a minimum purchase of 1k points at $11.68 locks that price for one year for any additional purchases.
14. Purchases of 2k or more points at $11.68 locks that price for 3 years for future purchases.

How does that stack up against what others are being told by the same (and other) sales centers?


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## GregT (Jun 15, 2021)

This is interesting speculation, thank you for posting it.  The most interesting point would be one comment from #6, ie, allowing these individuals (who were not grandfathered) to be able to book at 14 months.  I'm not sure if that's possible within the system and we will see what develops.  We will see what develops.  I do agree that they will now start to focus on Starwood owners, and find way to incentivize them to buy Trust Points, versus the historical focus on Marriott owners.  We will see!  Interesting stuff....

Best,

Greg


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## dougp26364 (Jun 15, 2021)

Interesting spin and a little more specific than our last update, but it’s been a little while for us.

I see a few possible reasons for the odd 17,000 point requirement.

1. Perhaps the majority of Chairman’s level sit right at 15,000 points, so this would make the next level within easy reach.

2. Perhaps MVC feels, or keeps hearing post update sales attempt, that the reason for not buying is that the owner doesn’t need the additional points (this is our #1 reason for not buying).

3.they’re banking on the idea that Chairman’s level owners will seek that status of being a top level owner with its trinkets and the threshold is so low they’ll jump.

4. They can always say, “17,000 will be increased to 20,000, so buy now and be grandfathered at that level before it’s to late,” creating the sense of urgency that’s needed to push the fence sitters off the fence. 

As with everything, once it’s in writing, I’ll consider my current needs, wants and desires. Until it’s in writing my money will stay in my pocket. They’ve been promising a cross over program so long my eyes just glaze over everything time I hear it. I would like to cross book between brands, but I’m not buying more points based on unwritten promises. I’m doing very well with the 15,500 points I have now and don’t feel the need to spend approx $22,000 more for status and bonus points I really don’t need. Could I use more points? Sure, I could make use of them. Am I comfortable with what we own. I’d say we’re pretty comfortable.


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## MommaBear (Jun 15, 2021)

I went to an update at Marriott Oceanwatch two weeks ago and they wanted me to spend $36,000 for 3000 points to be able to bring in my 360,000 star options. I told them thanks but no thanks


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## kds4 (Jun 15, 2021)

MommaBear said:


> I went to an update at Marriott Oceanwatch two weeks ago and they wanted me to spend $36,000 for 3000 points to be able to bring in my 360,000 star options. I told them thanks but no thanks



I think this is what they were referring to regarding shifting the sales focus from enrolling MVCI weeks owners to 'enrolling' owners from the other portfolio brands. For the past decade, the enrollment focus has been on unenrolled weeks. With the ILG acquisition, they have a big new pool to sell to (and may decide they've gotten as much as they can "at scale" from the weeks owner pool and its time to shift sales resources to the new target market this acquisition has opened up to "enroll" inventory from these other brands).


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## kds4 (Jun 15, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> Interesting spin and a little more specific than our last update, but it’s been a little while for us.
> 
> I see a few possible reasons for the odd 17,000 point requirement.
> 
> ...



Several of those points apply to our situation as well. The 30% discount for a booking within 60 days caught our attention. We like this current discount for MVC properties as Chairman's Club and could see value for us to have that ability across the full portfolio of brands in the future.


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## kds4 (Jun 15, 2021)

GregT said:


> This is interesting speculation, thank you for posting it.  The most interesting point would be one comment from #6, ie, allowing these individuals (who were not grandfathered) to be able to book at 14 months.  I'm not sure if that's possible within the system and we will see what develops.  We will see what develops.  I do agree that they will now start to focus on Starwood owners, and find way to incentivize them to buy Trust Points, versus the historical focus on Marriott owners.  We will see!  Interesting stuff....
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Agreed. Providing a 14 month booking window for this new top level would likely mean some 'behind the curtain' activity in the inventory/exchange system processes that no one but 'the Wizard' will see.


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## mjm1 (Jun 15, 2021)

I like the idea of "only" 17k for the new level versus 30k, which a sales rep told us at a recent update and is completely absurd. I love the idea of a 14 month reservation window. Extending the 30% discount across the entire portfolio would also be a nice feature. Time will tell.

Best regards.

Mike


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## frank808 (Jun 15, 2021)

3. Ambassador level has been useless now from what I have read over at flyertalk. But I would love the perk of checking in for 24 hour stay instead of check in at 4pm. That is the one ambassador perk I see useful at Marriott brand hotels.

6. Having another 6 months until the next year to bank point is helpful.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## kds4 (Jun 15, 2021)

frank808 said:


> 3. Ambassador level has been useless now from what I have read over at flyertalk. But I would love the perk of checking in for 24 hour stay instead of check in at 4pm. That is the one ambassador perk I see useful at Marriott brand hotels.
> 
> 6. Having another 6 months until the next year to bank point is helpful.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Agreed. I'd use the 'My 24' Ambassador benefit. Supposedly Bonvoy Ambassador also guarantees a room upgrade if the hotel has suites even if it means 'walking' someone else for the Ambassador member to get the room. Never been Ambassador, so don't know if that is true.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## kds4 (Jun 15, 2021)

There was also another benefit of the new level above Chairman's Club that I forgot. You can exchange up to 100% of your DPs for Bonvoy points at a ratio of 1:40 (useful for getting travel packages with FF miles for airline tickets instead of redeeming your destination points directly through MVC for airline tickets, which is a much worse value for your points.)


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## dougp26364 (Jun 15, 2021)

It’s always great when they list all these wonderful benefits. Just remember, they’ve presented nothing in writing. So at this moment it’s all wishful thinking. You might as well toss in a free ice cream social, pony rides, A special welcome dinner with free drinks, free cabanas, An express line at check in, skip the lines at the market place and on site restaurants et... just for “Ambassador” level members.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 15, 2021)

I just remember all the things the sales reps were saying prior to 2010. Yes, change did happen, but much of the doom and gloom they spoke about still hasn't happened 11 years later.


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## kds4 (Jun 15, 2021)

dougp26364 said:


> It’s always great when they list all these wonderful benefits. Just remember, they’ve presented nothing in writing. So at this moment it’s all wishful thinking. You might as well toss in a free ice cream social, pony rides, A special welcome dinner with free drinks, free cabanas, An express line at check in, skip the lines at the market place and on site restaurants et... just for “Ambassador” level members.



If it's strawberry ice cream, sign me up!


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## Dean (Jun 16, 2021)

mjm1 said:


> I like the idea of "only" 17k for the new level versus 30k, which a sales rep told us at a recent update and is completely absurd. I love the idea of a 14 month reservation window. Extending the 30% discount across the entire portfolio would also be a nice feature. Time will tell.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Mike


I can't imagine it'd be 17K, must have been a good level based on that person's portfolio to try to sell them more points.  IF ONE new level comes on board AND there are no changes in the requirements for the current level, I think 20K is extremely likely but nothing less.


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## BigDawgTUG (Jun 16, 2021)

Dean said:


> I can't imagine it'd be 17K, must have been a good level based on that person's portfolio to try to sell them more points.  IF ONE new level comes on board AND there are no changes in the requirements for the current level, I think 20K is extremely likely but nothing less.


I agree.  My guess is that they would announce an increase in Chairman to 17K and then encourage people to increase to 15K prior to the effective date of the increase in order to get grandfathered in.  Then, the new level above Chairman, if any, will come in around 20K to 22K - similar to the difference between the existing, two highest membership levels.


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## dsmrp (Jun 16, 2021)

MommaBear said:


> I went to an update at Marriott Oceanwatch two weeks ago and they wanted me to spend $36,000 for 3000 points to be able to bring in my 360,000 star options. I told them thanks but no thanks


Are your 360K star options from developer purchases or from resale of Vistana mandatory resorts, or combo of both?  If from developer purchases that $36K for 3000 trust points is too rich for me. Too rich regardless of the star options origins, but especially if they are mostly-all from developer sales.


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## rthib (Jun 16, 2021)

kds4 said:


> Supposedly Bonvoy Ambassador also guarantees a room upgrade if the hotel has suites even if it means 'walking' someone else for the Ambassador member to get the room. Never been Ambassador, so don't know if that is true.


That would be a big no. They have the same "we will try really, really hard ... if available" to get upgrade. Ambassador's even have trouble with SNAs.

I would take note of the big "if" on #4.  
Ambassador is difficult to reach since it has a large revenue number associated with it.
Marriott doesn't give it to it's own customers even those with 150-200 nights (since they didn't reach the $14K spend.)
Also, Ambassador has some real costs, when they bring back the dedicated point of contacts.

Call me skeptical on giving Ambassador status.


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## mjm1 (Jun 16, 2021)

Dean said:


> I can't imagine it'd be 17K, must have been a good level based on that person's portfolio to try to sell them more points.  IF ONE new level comes on board AND there are no changes in the requirements for the current level, I think 20K is extremely likely but nothing less.



I agree that 20k makes more sense.


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## MommaBear (Jun 18, 2021)

dsmrp said:


> Are your 360K star options from developer purchases or from resale of Vistana mandatory resorts, or combo of both?  If from developer purchases that $36K for 3000 trust points is too rich for me. Too rich regardless of the star options origins, but especially if they are mostly-all from developer sales.


They were a mixture of developer and retro-ed properties with some flex options throw in.


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## dsmrp (Jun 18, 2021)

MommaBear said:


> They were a mixture of developer and retro-ed properties with some flex options throw in.


Wow doesn't sound good for those who bought Vistana retail. We're like you with a retro'ed unit, no flex tho. Not much incentive for Vistana owners to convert to DC at those prices. Hope they come out with something better next year....yeah wishful thinking...


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## MommaBear (Jun 21, 2021)

dsmrp said:


> Wow doesn't sound good for those who bought Vistana retail. We're like you with a retro'ed unit, no flex tho. Not much incentive for Vistana owners to convert to DC at those prices. Hope they come out with something better next year....yeah wishful thinking...


With weeks inventory, they could easily combine the two programs, they'd just have to figure out how to equalize the points between programs and figure out whether to make seasonal point adjustments at the Hawaii properties the way Marriott did. The bigger issue is that Marriott did charge owners to convert from weeks to points, so how do they bring on Flex owners. 
The salesperson at Marriott Oceanwatch said it would be 2nd quarter 2022 before we knew what the program really would look like.


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## iowaguy09 (Jun 21, 2021)

I’m asking as a Westin Flex owner; is there a pure points product in MVC where you own just points and can choose from any MVC resort, or from a select group of resorts, at some preferred reservation window (e.g. 12 months out)?


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## Dean (Jun 21, 2021)

iowaguy09 said:


> I’m asking as a Westin Flex owner; is there a pure points product in MVC where you own just points and can choose from any MVC resort, or from a select group of resorts, at some preferred reservation window (e.g. 12 months out)?


There is a pure points option for MVC.  You can chose from any resort in the system but it's subject to availability. Some resorts have moe inventory in points than other.  For some the entire inventory is points and for some it's mostly in the weeks side and to reserve on points weeks owners have to elect points from that season.  From a practical standpoint anyone with points (pure points AKA Trust points or Destination points (weeks owners who are enrolled and elect for points) can reserve the available inventory on the points side.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 21, 2021)

iowaguy09 said:


> I’m asking as a Westin Flex owner; is there a pure points product in MVC where you own just points and can choose from any MVC resort, or from a select group of resorts, at some preferred reservation window (e.g. 12 months out)?


Marriott setup their points program a lot better than Vistana did. Vistana has theirs so segregated it isn't funny. Westin Flex, Sheraton Flex, Nanea, WSJ, Aventuras. Marriott has one program, you can book any of the resorts either through the trust or the MVC Exchange company. Nice and clean. I suspect this is why Marriott is having such a hard time figuring out how to integrate the programs.


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## l0410z (Jun 21, 2021)

I feel like a pager in a world of smartphones.   In all the sales updates I have attended in my 26 years of ownership, no one at MVCI has given me a compelling reason to make the investment based on how we vacation by using, trading or renting our units. If all my resale weeks were legacy weeks and my point total from those weeks were what they would be enrolled, that is a different story.   I am envious of resale legacy week owners with a significant point total from those weeks.   You will be able to continue to cost effectively adapt to Marriott’s changes.  Me, I will ride the rent, trade or use week train to as far as it takes me and divest when I have to get off.   Thanks for discussions like this.  It makes me feel like a smart pager.


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## bazzap (Jun 22, 2021)

iowaguy09 said:


> I’m asking as a Westin Flex owner; is there a pure points product in MVC where you own just points and can choose from any MVC resort, or from a select group of resorts, at some preferred reservation window (e.g. 12 months out)?


You can choose from any resort with the MVC Destination Club Trust (Pure) Points Programme, subject to availability.
For some resorts, e.g. all the European ones and Caribbean ones the Trust owns no inventory there.
So to book with Points you need a Weeks owner to have released that inventory by electing their enrolled Weeks for Points.
Yes, you can book these, but it is likely to be more challenging especially in peak periods.


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## davidvel (Jun 22, 2021)

iowaguy09 said:


> I’m asking as a Westin Flex owner; is there a pure points product in MVC where you own just points and can choose from any MVC resort, or from a select group of resorts, at some preferred reservation window (e.g. 12 months out)?


Depends on your definition of "Pure."  Technically the DC is an overlay on the weeks program.  Despite comments to the contrary, there is nothing  in the MVC weeks program that allows any segregated pools of weeks inventory, or different reservation "buckets."  But don't worry, Marriott DC trust has essentially ignored these legal requirements and somehow reserves the weeks it wants, without following the same requirements other owners have to follow.  At least that's how many Tuggers have described the reservation process.


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## iowaguy09 (Jun 22, 2021)

davidvel said:


> Depends on your definition of "Pure."  Technically the DC is an overlay on the weeks program.  Despite comments to the contrary, there is nothing  in the MVC weeks program that allows any segregated pools of weeks inventory, or different reservation "buckets."  But don't worry, Marriott DC trust has essentially ignored these legal requirements and somehow reserves the weeks it wants, without following the same requirements other owners have to follow.  At least that's how many Tuggers have described the reservation process.


Good point, davidvel (no pun intended, haha).  By “pure” I meant that only points were “owned” and used to make reservations and nothing is tied to week(s) or season ownership.  Of course, the reservation pool might be potentially restricted by some means.


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## iowaguy09 (Jun 22, 2021)

I enjoy reading the speculation here and in numerous other posts (including one thread I initiated in the Vistana forum) regarding the MVC/Vistana final product.  I would hate to be on that committee figuring this out.

My latest thought is what if the Sheraton and Vistana properties (assume these are the lower value properties) were rolled directly into MVC and made open to everyone, but Westin and Aventuras properties were held out as a more upscale option similar to the Ritz properties are?  This would create a new special group within MVC that could trade down, but everyone else would have to trade up to with some extra point/incentive mechanism.  I’m sure this would still make many owners angry out there.  Just tossing out some more conversation sparks.


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## Dean (Jun 22, 2021)

davidvel said:


> Depends on your definition of "Pure."  Technically the DC is an overlay on the weeks program.  Despite comments to the contrary, there is nothing  in the MVC weeks program that allows any segregated pools of weeks inventory, or different reservation "buckets."  But don't worry, Marriott DC trust has essentially ignored these legal requirements and somehow reserves the weeks it wants, without following the same requirements other owners have to follow.  At least that's how many Tuggers have described the reservation process.


I'm not sure I'd agree they've ignored the legal requirements but I'd love to hear more specifics on the issue.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 22, 2021)

Somewhere in this thread, there _*should*_ be a Billy Joel reference....


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## dansimms (Jun 22, 2021)

I wonder how many of the properties in this soon to be expanded network have plans for physical expansion? Perhaps any new construction could be universally put into a broadly spanning trust that would be available to Vistana as well as Marriott Owners. It would be similar to Grande Vista, where some units are part of Florida Club, but not all. That would seem to have less legal entanglements, since it would be expansion, post aquisition of Vistana.


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## rthib (Jun 22, 2021)

bbodb1 said:


> Somewhere in this thread, there _*should*_ be a Billy Joel reference....


I'll meet you any time you want


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## iowaguy09 (Jun 23, 2021)

rthib said:


> I'll meet you any time you want


“…Eddie could never afford to live that kind of life…” said the TUG’er to his friend wanting to buy direct from the TS developer at a sales presentation.


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## zentraveler (Jun 23, 2021)

l0410z said:


> I feel like a pager in a world of smartphones.



Best first line ever.


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## bbodb1 (Jun 23, 2021)

rthib said:


> I'll meet you any time you want



_Bottle of red? 
Bottle of white?_


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## davidvel (Jun 23, 2021)

Dean said:


> I'm not sure I'd agree they've ignored the legal requirements but I'd love to hear more specifics on the issue.


I don't want to take this thread off the rails any more than it has, but I challenge anyone to post (in a new thread), any language from their resort's governing documents that permits a weeks owner to start a club that consolidates their weeks and then sells interests in the club, all while separating their weeks inventory out from other owners for reservation purposes, with special reservation procedures and priority.

If so, I'm  starting a new Club.


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## Dean (Jun 23, 2021)

davidvel said:


> I don't want to take this thread off the rails any more than it has, but I challenge anyone to post (in a new thread), any language from their resort's governing documents that permits a weeks owner to start a club that consolidates their weeks and then sells interests in the club, all while separating their weeks inventory out from other owners for reservation purposes, with special reservation procedures and priority.
> 
> If so, I'm  starting a new Club.


Done.  New Thread


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## kds4 (Jun 25, 2021)

bbodb1 said:


> Somewhere in this thread, there _*should*_ be a Billy Joel reference....



Well, our owner's update was held in an Italian restaurant ...


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## Lansdowne (Jun 26, 2021)

kds4 said:


> So, we went to our first update in 3 years at NCV. Not high pressure. Discussion focused on 2022 changes. Main points included:
> 
> 1. New level above Chairman's Club rolling out in 2022.
> 2. No Grandfathering To New Level.
> ...


First Thank You for the posting - it is so important that we all share any information that we receive during these presentations. Usually what Marriott/Vistana say you generally question until a dollar figure is attached to it. In my opinion, it makes complete sense that they are coming out with a new level. I think that level is focused on folks like myself that own both Marriott and Vistana properties. We are currently at the Presidential Level - if Marriott were to assign a value to our Vistana Properties in the Marriott system and truly merged them together we would have enough points to reach the current Chairman level. The 17K number seems like an odd number but I bet they have run all the algorithms and that number places many people just short enough of the target to require additional purchases. We find little advantage in being at the Presidential Level except for the additional time limits - which I have to admit came in handy during the pandemic.

BTW, I don't understand you number 7 - I thought you had to own MVCI property to use the portfolio.

Again Thanks for the post!


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## Lansdowne (Jun 26, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> Marriott setup their points program a lot better than Vistana did. Vistana has theirs so segregated it isn't funny. Westin Flex, Sheraton Flex, Nanea, WSJ, Aventuras. Marriott has one program, you can book any of the resorts either through the trust or the MVC Exchange company. Nice and clean. I suspect this is why Marriott is having such a hard time figuring out how to integrate the programs.


I disagree (in part), we own Vistana property with deeds in Hawaii and Palm Desert. It was and still is an easy system to use if you go to your home resort- much easier than our Marriott Properties. After the merger all these Vistana point programs were created - I put that mess on Marriott not Vistana.


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## Lansdowne (Jun 26, 2021)

Dean said:


> There is a pure points option for MVC.  You can chose from any resort in the system but it's subject to availability. Some resorts have moe inventory in points than other.  For some the entire inventory is points and for some it's mostly in the weeks side and to reserve on points weeks owners have to elect points from that season.  From a practical standpoint anyone with points (pure points AKA Trust points or Destination points (weeks owners who are enrolled and elect for points) can reserve the available inventory on the points side.


You have to work the system. You don't have to use the points system if you merely use your week in exchange for another week. But you have to convert that week to points to get maximum usage. In the old days you could make some nice trade when you traded just weeks - you get lucky now and then but it is much harder to do and sometimes you get much less value. Right now you need points to compliment your weeks if they have less value than they used to in the system. I guess at some level it makes sense but the sales pitch from many years ago that you could trade anywhere with your week has many caveats.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2021)

Lansdowne said:


> I disagree (in part), we own Vistana property with deeds in Hawaii and Palm Desert. It was and still is an easy system to use if you go to your home resort- much easier than our Marriott Properties. After the merger all these Vistana point programs were created - I put that mess on Marriott not Vistana.


The merger between ILG and Marriott Vacations Worldwide was announced in May 2018. Nanea opened in 2017, the Sheraton Flex (Flex Holdings LLC) program was declared in Orange County Florida in March 2015. Westin Flex (Flex Collection LLC) was declared in November 2017. I don't know exactly when they started Westin Aventuras in Mexico, but it was around the time they reopened the Westin Los Cabos. That was in 2017. So as you can see, every single one of these flex programs predates the merger with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. Even if they did occur shortly after the merge (which they didn't), plans for these programs would have been long in-flight prior to the merger. Vistana is 100% responsible for the fragmentation of their flex programs.

I also don't understand the comment about going to your home resort. Just about every system was and is very easy to use if you go to your home resort. What makes using your home resort harder with Marriott. Certainly buying and owning certain types of weeks (fixed vs. floating) can make things more difficult, but that exists in both the Marriott and Vistana system.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 26, 2021)

Lansdowne said:


> I disagree (in part), we own Vistana property with deeds in Hawaii and Palm Desert. It was and still is an easy system to use if you go to your home resort- much easier than our Marriott Properties. After the merger all these Vistana point programs were created - I put that mess on Marriott not Vistana.



_>>__April 30, 2018_
_(Reuters) - Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corp VAC.N will buy timeshare operator ILG Inc ILG.O for $4.7 billion, the companies said on Monday, grabbing the chance to merge operations and brands spun out of Starwood and Marriott hotels.<<

2017 ILG Annual Report_

Why blame Marriott? The 2017 report makes reference to Vistana's affiliation with SPG as well as the Sheraton Flex and Westin Aventuras programs, all prior to Marriott's acquisition of ILG in 2018. What are, "all these points programs" related to Vistana that Marriott implemented after it acquired ILG?


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## SueDonJ (Jun 26, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> The merger between ILG and Marriott Vacations Worldwide was announced in May 2018. Nanea opened in 2017, the Sheraton Flex (Flex Holdings LLC) program was declared in Orange County Florida in March 2015. Westin Flex (Flex Collection LLC) was declared in November 2017. I don't know exactly when they started Westin Aventuras in Mexico, but it was around the time they reopened the Westin Los Cabos. That was in 2017. So as you can see, every single one of these flex programs predates the merger with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. Even if they did occur shortly after the merge (which they didn't), plans for these programs would have been long in-flight prior to the merger. Vistana is 100% responsible for the fragmentation of their flex programs.
> 
> I also don't understand the comment about going to your home resort. Just about every system was and is very easy to use if you go to your home resort. What makes using your home resort harder with Marriott. Certainly buying and owning certain types of weeks (fixed vs. floating) can make things more difficult, but that exists in both the Marriott and Vistana system.



As usual, you're quicker to the draw.


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## CKMason (Jun 26, 2021)

We attended a MVCI sales presentation at the Palm Desert location in April 2021. We have 15,400 Destination Club points. We also have 177,000 Westin Flex points. We were "informed" that the Westin points would convert to 7500 Destination Club points when the joint program rolled out. Thus we would end up with 22,900 MVCI points. HOWEVER, the kicker was that the new level above Chairman would be 25,000 points and we would need to purchase another 2250 points [Destination Club points only sold in 250 point increments.] We were offered about 4 different ways to make this point number, all costing between $24,000 to $26,000 to which we said no. Having decided against spending that kind of $$$, I only remember that one of the benefits of the new tier was reservations 18 months out, which is useless to us as it seems most of our vacations made way ahead have to be modified or changed due to circumstances (covid19, family, etc.). I do remember that the new tier was to also tie to the Titanium tier in Marriott, also useless as I have Lifetime Titanium.


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## MICROZE (Jun 26, 2021)

We attended a presentation at Marriott Summit Watch [MSW] on Wed Jun 23rd, 2021.

Here is a *summary* of what we heard.

There will be a new level called *"Ambassador"*. New program rollout expected CY-Q1-2022.
Unfortunate that they picked the name "Ambassador" as it has nothing to do with the Bonvoy program.
To qualify for the new level one would need to own *20000-DCP*.
Existing "Chairmans" members would *NOT* be *grandfathered* in. Currently 80% of Chairmans own over 20K-DCP.
*Hybrid Marriott-Owners* [Vistana-Elite] Combined-Status would *NOT* be considered.
E.g, Marriott-Chairmans + Vistana-5-Star-Elite would result in Marriott-Charimans [*NOT *Ambassador].
Current price *$14.94*. Major price point increase coming post Jun-30. Yeah right.
Purchase 2K for $12.70 [15%-Discount]. 3K for $11.95 [20%-Discount]. 4K for $11.21 [25%-Discount].
Bundle purchase offered [Grande-Vista 2BR-EY-PLAT 2775-DCP for $11700] + 2K-DCP [~$25.3K]. Total $37K for 4775-DCP [$7.76/DCP]
Bundled packages [Deeded-Enrolled-Week + DCP-Points] will no longer be offered by end of this year.
*Purchase-Incentive: *200%-Bonus. Purchase 2K-DCP receive 4K-DCP [1-Time-Bonus: @ $0.60-MF = $2400-Value] valid for 3-Years. OR 150K Bonvoy-Points.
*Presentation-Incentive: *40K-Bonvoy OR 400-DCP OR $250 Ruth Chris-GC OR $225-VISA-Card.
We turned down the offer as we have seen better Bundled-Packages with lower $/DCP.
This could get us to 20K-DCP, however, we are not convinced that getting to Ambassador would be value we would benefit from.
When I asked the rep to explain the delta benefits between Charimans & Ambassador he struggled to provide examples with conviction.
One thing he mentioned that intrigued me was that Ambassadors-Level would have access to *St. Regis Residences* [15-20 International-Properties ]. Also found this [*St. Regis Res*].
This would be similar to current Marriott owners access to 6 Ritz Properties.

*UPDATE
Vistana*
Asked multiple ways if our Vistana-Ownership and Status would be considered. The rep insisted that *"NO"* the merger was ONE-WAY. Marriott purchased Vistana, thus Marriott owners would have access to Vistana properties via the DCP-System. However, *Vistana-Owners* would need to continue to exchange via INTERVAL [free into Marriott-Properties]. Asked him where the ONE-WAY inventory would come from and he gave examples of Explorer-Collection [Cruises/Tours], Defaulted, ROFR-Purchases, Unsold inventory.

*Hyatt*
Asked about Hyatt and the rep informed us that noting was being considered for *Hyatt-Owners* yet.

*Welk*
He did mention something about Marriott owners getting access to *Welk* properties in the future.


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## bazzap (Jun 26, 2021)

So one sales presentation says 17,000 Points for the “new” level, another says 20,000?
A very good reason just to wait and see what, if any, new level is formally announced!


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## davidvel (Jun 26, 2021)

MICROZE said:


> We attended a presentation at Marriott Summit Watch [MSW] on Wed Jun 23rd, 2021.
> 
> Here is a *summary* of what we heard.
> 
> ...


And then there will be a new level, Emperor, then Great Leader, then Commander of the Universe, all of which require another $10,000+ out of your pocket. Each new level will be described as making your prior level and ownership junk and worthless, and the cycle continues.


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## kds4 (Jun 26, 2021)

Lansdowne said:


> First Thank You for the posting - it is so important that we all share any information that we receive during these presentations. Usually what Marriott/Vistana say you generally question until a dollar figure is attached to it. In my opinion, it makes complete sense that they are coming out with a new level. I think that level is focused on folks like myself that own both Marriott and Vistana properties. We are currently at the Presidential Level - if Marriott were to assign a value to our Vistana Properties in the Marriott system and truly merged them together we would have enough points to reach the current Chairman level. The 17K number seems like an odd number but I bet they have run all the algorithms and that number places many people just short enough of the target to require additional purchases. We find little advantage in being at the Presidential Level except for the additional time limits - which I have to admit came in handy during the pandemic.
> 
> BTW, I don't understand you number 7 - I thought you had to own MVCI property to use the portfolio.
> 
> Again Thanks for the post!



How number 7 unfolds is the center piece of the integration discussion between MVCI and the other brands they acquired (including Vistana). MVCI sales has been representing for some time that Non-MVCI owners will have to buy a quantity of MVCI's points (or an as yet unknown 'common currency') to 'unlock' the ability to book MVCI properties using the converted value of their Non-MVCI ownership units (also at an as yet unknown conversion value). While some have hoped that both MVCI and Non-MVCI owners would receive the ability to cross-book their ownerships for free, I don't believe it will occur that way due to the need for MVCI to keep selling. So, I foresee Non-MVCI owners having to 'buy-in' to MVCI in some form (either a one-time enrollment fee or more likely a minimum required points purchase) and existing MVCI owners will be required to achieve a certain level of ownership (possibly this as yet unnamed but potentially 'Ambassador' level at 17,000 or more points). We'll see, when we see.


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## kds4 (Jun 26, 2021)

bazzap said:


> So one sales presentation says 17,000 Points for the “new” level, another says 20,000?
> A very good reason just to wait and see what, if any, new level is formally announced!



Agreed, but I notice some points of commonality from both presentations at these different properties. 

1. Both identified the new level above Chairman's as 'Ambassador' with a release in the first half of 2022.
2. Both referenced eliminating past 'Grandfathering' actions.
3. Both included the same 'hybrid bundle' offer as an alternative to a straight points purchase.
4. Both referenced bundle packages being discontinued.


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## kds4 (Jun 26, 2021)

CKMason said:


> We attended a MVCI sales presentation at the Palm Desert location in April 2021. We have 15,400 Destination Club points. We also have 177,000 Westin Flex points. We were "informed" that the Westin points would convert to 7500 Destination Club points when the joint program rolled out. Thus we would end up with 22,900 MVCI points. HOWEVER, the kicker was that the new level above Chairman would be 25,000 points and we would need to purchase another 2250 points [Destination Club points only sold in 250 point increments.] We were offered about 4 different ways to make this point number, all costing between $24,000 to $26,000 to which we said no. Having decided against spending that kind of $$$, I only remember that one of the benefits of the new tier was reservations 18 months out, which is useless to us as it seems most of our vacations made way ahead have to be modified or changed due to circumstances (covid19, family, etc.). I do remember that the new tier was to also tie to the Titanium tier in Marriott, also useless as I have Lifetime Titanium.



If there is such a significant jump in minimum ownership requirements to qualify for the new 'Ambassador' level (from 15k DP min to 20k DP min), the cheapest way to accomplish that would be through having purchased an external resale week (worth 2,500 points or more) that you can enroll with the purchase of 2,500 points (instead of having to buy 5k points outright). If I were going to pursue the higher option (if/when it happens), that would be my approach (unless they close that door, which is currently open).


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## Lansdowne (Jun 26, 2021)

kds4 said:


> How number 7 unfolds is the center piece of the integration discussion between MVCI and the other brands they acquired (including Vistana). MVCI sales has been representing for some time that Non-MVCI owners will have to buy a quantity of MVCI's points (or an as yet unknown 'common currency') to 'unlock' the ability to book MVCI properties using the converted value of their Non-MVCI ownership units (also at an as yet unknown conversion value). While some have hoped that both MVCI and Non-MVCI owners would receive the ability to cross-book their ownerships for free, I don't believe it will occur that way due to the need for MVCI to keep selling. So, I foresee Non-MVCI owners having to 'buy-in' to MVCI in some form (either a one-time enrollment fee or more likely a minimum required points purchase) and existing MVCI owners will be required to achieve a certain level of ownership (possibly this as yet unnamed but potentially 'Ambassador' level at 17,000 or more points). We'll see, when we see.


My wife’s theory is that Vistana owners will have to pay a one time fee to enroll each of their properties. The holdup she believes is placing a value on the property compare to Marriott properties. I think Marriott will try to have Vistana owners buy more but I think that will be difficult where people like myself own enough Marriott properties and points now. Clearly Marriott wants our properties for exchange in Hawaii where it is very expensive to build and probably in Palm Desert as well.


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## Lansdowne (Jun 26, 2021)

SueDonJ said:


> As usual, you're quicker to the draw.


I had never heard of the Adventuras until today. Never was interested in buying out of the country. I just heard about the Flex programs only in the last few years and always thought they came about after the merger - I stand corrected. In our last presentation in Hawaii they pushed flex points but stopped when we told them about our Marriott ownership and realize it didn’t make sense for us.


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## MICROZE (Jun 26, 2021)

Lansdowne said:


> My wife’s theory is that Vistana owners will have to *pay a one time fee to enroll each of their properties*. The holdup she believes is placing a value on the property compare to Marriott properties. I think Marriott will try to have Vistana owners buy more but I think that will be difficult where people like myself own enough Marriott properties and points now. Clearly Marriott wants our properties for exchange in Hawaii where it is very expensive to build and probably in Palm Desert as well.


In response to your *Comment*, the rep was very clear that Vistana owners would not get access to Marriott-Properties via the DCP-System. Vistana-Owners would have to continue to use INTERVAL.
Also updated my Post-#48 with some more info.


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## MICROZE (Jun 26, 2021)

Lansdowne said:


> I had never heard of the Adventuras until today. Never was interested in buying out of the country. I just heard about the Flex programs only in the last few years and always thought they came about after the merger - I stand corrected. In our last presentation in Hawaii they pushed flex points but stopped when we told them about our Marriott ownership and realize it didn’t make sense for us.


We own very little Aventuras-Flex [95.7K EOY] points. MF are the cheapest of the 3 Flex-Programs. However, the Aventuras-Flex MF are higher than any of our Vistana Deeded-Weeks. Would not recommend purchasing into any of the Flex-Programs.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2021)

MICROZE said:


> In response to your *Comment*, the rep was very clear that Vistana owners would not get access to Marriott-Properties via the DCP-System. Vistana-Owners would have to continue to use INTERVAL.
> Also updated my Post-#48 with some more info.


So no combined program? If past comments by high up Marriott Vacations Worldwide executives is to be believed, some type of program is coming.


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## MICROZE (Jun 26, 2021)

dioxide45 said:


> *So no combined program*? If past comments by high up Marriott Vacations Worldwide executives is to be believed, some type of program is coming.


Reading other posts I am inclined to believe that all the reps are "Lying". They have One-And-Only-One objective which is to sell more DCP.
E.g. Post-#47 [15400-DCP + 177K-Star-Options = 22900-DCP] was informed that the the new Ambassador level would be 25000-DCP which would require them to purchase ~2250-DCP.
We own Marriott 15400-DCP [+ Vistana: 5-Star-Elite: 1.2M Enrolled Star-Options] and were informed that we needed to purchase 4600-DCP to get to 20K-DCP.
We were thus offered a bundle [WEEK: 2775 + 2000-DCP].

I see a theme. No matter what people own, try and sell them more DCP and make up any story [17K, 20K, 25K] to get them to bite.

In response to your Q. There may very well be a combined program.
However, in our case, if there is a combined program [Marriott-Chairmans + Vistaana-5-Star-Elite], there would be no need for us to purchase any more.
Thus the message may very well have been adjusted [*"No Combined Program"*] to get us to purchase more DCP.


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## dioxide45 (Jun 26, 2021)

MICROZE said:


> Reading other posts I am inclined to believe that all the reps are "Lying". They have One-And-Only-One objective which is to sell more DCP.
> E.g. One Post-#47 [15400-DCP + 170K-Star-Options = 22500-DCP] was informed that the the new Ambassador level would be 25000-DCP which would require them to purchase ~2500-DCP.
> We own 15400-DCP [1.2M Star-Options] and were informed that we needed to purchase 4600-DCP for which we were offered a bundle [WEEK: 2775 + 2000-DCP].
> 
> I see a theme. No matter what people own, try and sell them more DCP and make up any story [17K, 20K, 25K] to get them to bite.


I agree. This is why any real information coming from a sales presentation should certainly not be relied upon for anything. The final outcome will likely be far different.


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## bazzap (Jun 27, 2021)

kds4 said:


> Agreed, but I notice some points of commonality from both presentations at these different properties.
> 
> 1. Both identified the new level above Chairman's as 'Ambassador' with a release in the first half of 2022.
> 2. Both referenced eliminating past 'Grandfathering' actions.
> ...


I guess it is just wait and see for us.
We have over 20K enrolled DC Points. 
If that gets us to any new level great, if not we may just offload some week(s) but only enough to stay at Chairman’s Club level.


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## mjm1 (Aug 25, 2021)

kds4 said:


> So, we went to our first update in 3 years at NCV. Not high pressure. Discussion focused on 2022 changes. Main points included:
> 
> 1. New level above Chairman's Club rolling out in 2022.
> 2. No Grandfathering To New Level.
> ...





Dean said:


> I can't imagine it'd be 17K, must have been a good level based on that person's portfolio to try to sell them more points.  IF ONE new level comes on board AND there are no changes in the requirements for the current level, I think 20K is extremely likely but nothing less.



We just attended a presentation here at NCV the other day, so am reviving this thread from a couple months ago.

The benefits that the OP shared were the same, but the “grandfathered” level shared with us was 27,000 DC points. We would need to buy 1,500 more points to get there, so I believe what @Dean shared is correct. They will use whatever amount of cumulative points they think will entice you to buy more points. So, it was 17k, but now it’s 27k. I didn’t recall the amount when we were in the presentation, so I didn’t say anything. But I did tell her that owners will be very disappointed to see the new upper level require 12k more points.

I don’t doubt that a new level will be introduced, but still can’t see it being more than 20k.

As a side note, she also said that owners who also own Vistana units won’t receive points toward the various levels. We own at Westin Kierland Villas, so weren’t happy with that comment and told her so. Of course, we will have to wait for the rollout of the combined system to see what really happens.

Best regards.

Mike


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 25, 2021)

mjm1 said:


> We just attended a presentation here at NCV the other day, so am reviving this thread from a couple months ago.
> 
> The benefits that the OP shared were the same, but the “grandfathered” level shared with us was 27,000 DC points. We would need to buy 1,500 more points to get there, so I believe what @Dean shared is correct. They will use whatever amount of cumulative points they think will entice you to buy more points. So, it was 17k, but now it’s 27k. I didn’t recall the amount when we were in the presentation, so I didn’t say anything. But I did tell her that owners will be very disappointed to see the new upper level require 12k more points.
> 
> ...


Of course the new Chairman's level will be 27K DC points and of course your Kierland properties won't count.  Otherwise, there would be no "need" for you to buy.  

lol


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## frank808 (Aug 25, 2021)

I will be attending a presentation here at MKO on Monday. Interesting to see what they tell me. Last presentation sales was telling me I needed more points to book the private homes and villas. Wonder if sales will tell me I need to add 1500 more DC points to get the new ambassador level? 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Fasttr (Aug 25, 2021)

frank808 said:


> I will be attending a presentation here at MKO on Monday. Interesting to see what they tell me. Last presentation sales was telling me I needed more points to book the private homes and villas. Wonder if sales will tell me I need to add 1500 more DC points to get the new ambassador level?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Tell them you feel you only need 50 more points and will only buy that amount.


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## mjm1 (Aug 26, 2021)

vacationtime1 said:


> Of course the new Chairman's level will be 27K DC points and of course your Kierland properties won't count.  Otherwise, there would be no "need" for you to buy.
> 
> lol



I agree Robert. The fact that a rep at the same resort tried the same thing but using different point levels is funny and ridiculous.


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## kathiewilcox (Aug 30, 2021)

All I ask is when is Marriott Vacation Club and Vistana merging to be used as one.


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## vacationtime1 (Aug 30, 2021)

kathiewilcox said:


> All I ask is when is Marriott Vacation Club and Vistana merging to be used as one.


To which they will answer "in six months, and you need to buy Westin Flex now to get into the program".  lol

My question would be "what can you show me in writing?"  When they can show me something in writing (or more likely, when someone posts it here), I will consider it but almost certainly reject it if it is anything other than a modest enrollment fee.


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## bogey21 (Aug 30, 2021)

There is one certainty.  A purchase will be required...

George


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## frank808 (Aug 30, 2021)

Attended presentation at MKO today. Offered 1500 points for $13 and change each point plus 3k bonus DC points. No mention of a new level above Chairman was mentioned. Was told that those 1500 points would get us to an even 145k DC points annually.

Second offer was purchase the 1500 DC points and get an EOYE MKO week for just $9900! What a steal had to seriously keep from pulling out my CC and buying this cheap offer . 

Needless to say we said "no" to both offers.

Forgot to add that is was pretty low pressure (lowest I have ever had aa a Marriott presentation).  The presentation bordered on Disney type low pressure.  In and out in 30 minutes.  The encore took 10 minutes because I was interested if they could book me Dec 24-28 2022.  Sadly she said 10 months out is the booking window.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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