# Selling my timeshare



## iamgenius (Jan 7, 2015)

Hello guys. This is my first post here, and I'm just seeking an advice, which I think I will definitely get from this great place. I'm a marriott vacation club member and have two weeks of time share. My resort is in Spain and here are some little details about it:

[Specifics deleted to comply with the no-advertising rule.]

I have been a member since 2010, and I'm now thinking to sell my timeshare because I think it is only wasting me money or at least I can say that this program is not for me. 

I'll list few reasons :

1- I don't travel every year, so I'll have to think of something to do with my weeks(That's troublesome).

2- You will have to remember to use your weeks, otherwise they are gone. I hate this and like flexibility instead.

3- Even if you convert your weeks to marriott rewards points, and use them later for accommodation, you can easily tell that the price is bad. One week worth of points doesn't get you good one week reservation. 

4- If for some reason you didn't convert your weeks to points, you will be forced to deposit them into interval international, which is even much worse. You can't book anywhere, and your weeks will expire in one year if you don't use them. They are my weeks, why should they expire???

5- The maintenance fees are very expensive. In fact, they are almost enough to book me good accommodation for my little family. Why should pay twice if I already pay for my loan?? I believe maintenance fees shouldn't exist, and if they must, they should minimal. 

In general, why get into the time share hassle, while you can keep your money and use it at your own will with full flexibility?

Anyways, I have decided to sell my timeshare and I'm asking you about the best way to do this, and how can I assure that things will go smoothly for me??

Of course even if I sell my timeshare, I'll still keep my reward points and my internal international weeks, right?

Sorry, I had to write in a hurry. Feel free to ask any questions.

Thanks in advance.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 7, 2015)

1 - This alone is a reason to unload your timeshares.

2 - Another reason to unload. I take too much vacation so I can't relate to having to remember to take one, but most people are probably in your boat.

3 - Agreed. Converting to MRP's is a horrible waste of value for your weeks. It used to be pretty good but Marriott lowered the value of MRP's, increased maintenance fees, but never increased the amount of annual MRP's. The are probably worth less than 25% of what they were 15 years ago.

4 - Deposits in II do not expire in 1 year. They expire in 2 years from the check-in date. They can also be extended. Placing a request will get you most anything you would want within reason and definitely at or above your ownership week, but it takes planning. There is plenty of usability with II but points 1&2 are your obstacles. 

5 - You are way way off on this one. They might be expensive but without maintenance fees there can be no timeshare. The maintenance fees go to maintain the property, nothing more. You bought a Cadillac, the maintenance is going to fall in line with a premium property, but any fee is "expensive" if not utilized. What you paid up front for the timeshare has no bearing. The loan is a completely different issue and was a result of your choice to finance.

Unfortunately you are not going to be able to sell your timeshare until you pay off your loan. That has to come first. Only then will you be able to unload it, and it isn't going to fetch nearly as much as you paid for it.

Your best bet is to first talk to Marriott Resales but I am not familiar with the process for Spain. You probably owe more than you can get for it so you still have to be prepared to pay it off first, but asking is the best first step.


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## iamgenius (Jan 7, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> 1 - This alone is a reason to unload your timeshares.
> 
> 2 - Another reason to unload. I take too much vacation so I can't relate to having to remember to take one, but most people are probably in your boat.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your nice and detailed reply. I actually finished paying my loan, that's why I'm thinking to sell it. 

Regarding II, is it really two years? I better go and check my profile! But even if it is two years, I still think they shouldn't expire.

Okay, I might be wrong about maintenance fees, but that's how I feel. 

I talked to marriott resales and they explained to me their process and recommended me against it because it might just not happen. They told me I'm better off dealing with a broker who doesn't ask for upfront fees. I searched and found so many brokers, but like I always do, I have to ask before I pull the trigger. 

Can I just go with a trusted broker and wait for a good deal and that will be it?


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 7, 2015)

iamgenius said:


> Thanks for your nice and detailed reply. I actually finished paying my loan, that's why I'm thinking to sell it.
> 
> Regarding II, is it really two years? I better go and check my profile! But even if it is two years, I still think they shouldn't expire.
> 
> ...



Call the Marriott Resale department back and tell them to add you to the list if they are actually selling Spain resales. I have sold 8 weeks through them. The problem is the Spain units will likely go to another office in Europe. Not sure on the process or the wait times. It's worth it to push the issue. Marriott can get far better prices than just about any resale broker, but they do take 35%.

II is definitely 2 years. You can deposit 1 year before and it is good for 2 years after so that provides a possible 3 year window without extending.


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## iamgenius (Jan 7, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Call the Marriott Resale department back and tell them to add you to the list if they are actually selling Spain resales. I have sold 8 weeks through them. The problem is the Spain units will likely go to another office in Europe. Not sure on the process or the wait times. It's worth it to push the issue. Marriott can get far better prices than just about any resale broker, but they do take 35%.
> 
> II is definitely 2 years. You can deposit 1 year before and it is good for 2 years after so that provides a possible 3 year window without extending.



When I called them few months back, I believe they said they are currently not selling spain units. Are you saying that their price will be better even after they take the 35% ?

Also, I read the tips in this link :http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44

Can most of the negative points mentioned there be avoided by dealing with a good broker?

Thanks.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 7, 2015)

iamgenius said:


> When I called them few months back, I believe they said they are currently not selling spain units. Are you saying that their price will be better even after they take the 35% ?
> 
> Also, I read the tips in this link :http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44
> 
> ...



If they aren't actively trying to sell the units then there is nothing you can do. Yes, the proceeds from a Marriott brokered sell even at 65% of their list will almost certainly be higher than anything you can get at 100%. They have fixed prices and they will move resales as an option during their hard sales pitches so nobody can realistically come anywhere near their prices.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 7, 2015)

Marriott's commission on resales is actually 40%, but the net amount you receive is still usually quite a bit better than you can get through other channels.  I currently have a sale pending through Marriott Resales at a price equal to 71% of the developer sales price.  After the 40% commission, I will net over 42% of the developer price.  In this market that is not too bad if you want to sell one.  Of course, it is a prime week in a prime location.


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## iamgenius (Jan 8, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> If they aren't actively trying to sell the units then there is nothing you can do. Yes, the proceeds from a Marriott brokered sell even at 65% of their list will almost certainly be higher than anything you can get at 100%. They have fixed prices and they will move resales as an option during their hard sales pitches so nobody can realistically come anywhere near their prices.



There is nothing I can do except for going with the broker route with the lower price you mean, right?


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## KarenP (Jan 8, 2015)

Have you looked at Redweek or Ebay to sell?  My thought is that a broker will take forever, if able to sell at all.


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## KathyPet (Jan 8, 2015)

Marriott will not take your week to resell unless the resort is. "Sold Out" and Marriott themselves is n0 longer selling Marriott "new" weeks.  Don't know what the status of your resort is.  If Marriott won't list it then you can try to sell it yourself on Red Week or TUG or list with a broker.  Be prepared to wait a very long time to sell,it and to get a fraction of what you bought it for.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 8, 2015)

KathyPet said:


> Marriott will not take your week to resell unless the resort is. "Sold Out" and Marriott themselves is n0 longer selling Marriott "new" weeks.  Don't know what the status of your resort is.  If Marriott won't list it then you can try to sell it yourself on Red Week or TUG or list with a broker.  Be prepared to wait a very long time to sell,it and to get a fraction of what you bought it for.



Marriott doesn't take any weeks back to resell, no matter what the property is. What they do is broker the week in house, and they most definitely broker resales in high volume. They do not broker every property but I don't think it has to do with the property itself. I think some states are excluded. They will not broker Willow Ridge (but they will buy it back directly). They also do not broker international weeks through the same Florida resale office. Not sure about international offices.

Since Marriott doesn't sell any specific property, every resort is "Sold Out" for all intents and purposes. Marriott will broker a resale at a property that they are selling points on, but then again the property itself makes no difference. The best example is Crystal Shores and Oceana Palms. I do not think those resorts are sold out. If they were selling weeks rather than points they would probably still have weeks left. They are brokering resales at those properties, and you do have the option to purchase a resale week at those properties during a sales presentation on site. Depending on the salesperson that option might not be pushed, but if you know about it or balk at points you can buy the weeks.


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## andyl999 (Jan 9, 2015)

*Maintenance Fees*



iamgenius said:


> 5- The maintenance fees are very expensive. In fact, they are almost enough to book me good accommodation for my little family. Why should pay twice if I already pay for my loan?? I believe maintenance fees shouldn't exist, and if they must, they should minimal.



I too own two weeks here, perhaps you can all help me with my maths?

Marbella has apparently 288 units

They (if they are all sold) will charge for 52 weeks/yr

From memory I pay over €600 per unit per year.

So it looks like 288x52x600=€8,986,600/yr collected in maintenance fees.

Now are you really suggesting that they spend €9M per year on maintenance/taxes/etc?

I am here to learn :0)

P.S. Please don't suggest to me that the fee also pays for the sales team and their accommodation, I would not believe you!


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## SkyBlueWaters (Jan 9, 2015)

Check the financial statement available from your HOA. There should be some reserves included in there and management fees. Maintenance and housekeeping cost a lot. It's a huge property. My house alone cost me a pretty penny every year just with the landscaping and maintenance. I can just imagine the needs of a huge resort. But then, you don't have to guess. The F/S and reports will state it all.


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## andyl999 (Jan 9, 2015)

Skybluewaters, I do understand that I can look at the annual accounts, however if you can figure out what and double check the actual charges/entries you are a better man than I!

Incidentally huge resorts BTW have economies of scale that you cannot achieve with your own house :0)


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 9, 2015)

andyl999 said:


> Skybluewaters, I do understand that I can look at the annual accounts, however if you can figure out what and double check the actual charges/entries you are a better man than I!
> 
> Incidentally huge resorts BTW have economies of scale that you cannot achieve with your own house :0)



You are way off on your fee amount. The average fee for 2015 is €972.54 with the lowest fee for the smallest size just over €800.  Trust me, it not only takes this much but likely more than that. Reserves are often underfunded.

A full service resort is very expensive to run. Imagine having a vacation home with a full service staff.

You are insinuating that there is embezzlement going on or cooked books. While this is always a possibility, I don't think the money coming in and going out is happening at the resort but I could be wrong.

They do have economies of scale. This is why the maintenance fee at the resort is much, much cheaper than a house. If you have a 2BR home on the beach with amenities and a full service staff all year long it would cost far more than the equivalent of 52 maintenance fees. You wouldn't be able to do it anywhere near $60K a year.

An alternative that some people prefer is buying a no to low service condo outright and then renting out weeks that are not used.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 9, 2015)

andyl999 said:


> Skybluewaters, I do understand that I can look at the annual accounts, however if you can figure out what and double check the actual charges/entries you are a better man than I!
> 
> Incidentally huge resorts BTW have economies of scale that you cannot achieve with your own house :0)



You're right, Owners have no way of reviewing the actual statements from vendors, services, etc that should correlate to the amounts found in the Annual Budget Statements.  But there is a safeguard of sorts in that the budgets are routinely audited by outside professional accounting agencies.

Most of us look at the annual budget reports with an eye toward one-off items that don't follow the developed, consistent pattern.  If you're seeing anything like that then there's reason to be concerned (at least enough to question the resort board.)


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## MALC9990 (Jan 9, 2015)

andyl999 said:


> I too own two weeks here, perhaps you can all help me with my maths?
> 
> Marbella has apparently 288 units
> 
> ...



No you are right the fees do not pay for the sales team nor for the common areas operated by Marriott. However the MFs have to cover everything else - pools, gardens, maintenance of the properties, utilities, staffing, housekeeping, front desk. If you were not aware of this then you should review the documents available to you at the weeks owners pages for your resort. There you will find the 2015 budget broken down by each expense category. You should also find the audited financial statements but I noticed the most recent for Marbella is for 2012. In my view the board for Marbella need to up their game and get MVCI to provide the audited financial statements much sooner. 2013 should have been available by mid 2014.


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## MALC9990 (Jan 9, 2015)

andyl999 said:


> Skybluewaters, I do understand that I can look at the annual accounts, however if you can figure out what and double check the actual charges/entries you are a better man than I!



This is why you vote for your board members each year - well you do vote do you not. 

Their job is to review the budget and the audited financial statements. At my resorts I ensure that the board are aware that I review both documents each year and I do raise questions when I see things that worry me in the slightest.


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## MALC9990 (Jan 9, 2015)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Marriott doesn't take any weeks back to resell, no matter what the property is. What they do is broker the week in house, and they most definitely broker resales in high volume. They do not broker every property but I don't think it has to do with the property itself. I think some states are excluded. They will not broker Willow Ridge (but they will buy it back directly). They also do not broker international weeks through the same Florida resale office. Not sure about international offices.
> 
> Since Marriott doesn't sell any specific property, every resort is "Sold Out" for all intents and purposes. Marriott will broker a resale at a property that they are selling points on, but then again the property itself makes no difference. The best example is Crystal Shores and Oceana Palms. I do not think those resorts are sold out. If they were selling weeks rather than points they would probably still have weeks left. They are brokering resales at those properties, and you do have the option to purchase a resale week at those properties during a sales presentation on site. Depending on the salesperson that option might not be pushed, but if you know about it or balk at points you can buy the weeks.



Actually, in Europe Marriott does take weeks back but this is when an owner is two years in default on MFs. At that point the delinquent owner loses the week and it is reclaimed by the developer for sale to a new customer. The resort gets paid by Marriott all the over due MFs. 

Also at Son Antem there is a buy back programme in place - these weeks are also then resold to new customers at full retail price.


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## SkyBlueWaters (Jan 9, 2015)

andyl999 said:


> Skybluewaters, I do understand that I can look at the annual accounts, however if you can figure out what and double check the actual charges/entries you are a better man than I!
> 
> Incidentally huge resorts BTW have economies of scale that you cannot achieve with your own house :0)



Having been involved in the business of the construction of big sky scrapers and resorts--believe me there are a lot of expenses that need to be covered not seen to the naked eye and cost tons of money where economies of scale does not compare to the maintenance of a house. A high value branded resort such as Marriott has to keep up quality of property and experience, and quality/luxury equals money. Have you seen where the stingy TS have gone? Just look at their run down properties. Now, if your resort has not kept up, i would demand an audit. My HOA breaks it down to a per member number in the FS, and yes I'm satisfied with the operations and responsible financial decisions. But then, my MF is only in the area of $1,150, the same amount I would pay for one day retail in the same property and the same week.

I wish they would hire better designers or have better aesthetics since it is premium location. I am actually fine with an increase in MF if I could have a more luxurious vacation. But that's another story...


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## bazzap (Jan 9, 2015)

Just to add some specific detail to Malcolm's comments about MVC buyback at Son Antem and resale at full retail price, in 2014 the following offer was made
Gold Week – 3 Bedrooms – Price:  28.200 £ - Discounted Price:  23.970 £
We have recently bought one of these, as a second week there, but Resale for 4.500 £.
OK, we didn't get any bonus MR Points, can't convert to MR and can't enrol into DC.
However, we wouldn't convert to MR anyway, plan to use our home weeks at the resort and we have saved almost £20,000.
It was not a very difficult decision!


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## iamgenius (Jan 10, 2015)

Hey people, let's not hijack my thread and talk only about maintenance fees. My point of view is :

Bottom line: The maintenance fees I'm paying every year can get me very good 5 star accommodation for about 10 days each year. When you remember that you bought two full weeks to use at your command, you feel like you have been ripped off. 

To me it is like: The money you paid for the loan is just gone, and you are paying for accommodation with your maintenance fees, In addition to that, you have to babysit this account and be up to date on everything, otherwise you will be screwed. I'll ask this: Do we pay for maintenance when we book a hotel for 10 days or two weeks? 

Again, that's just my point of view. I'm not forcing it on anybody.


So, that's that. Let's go back to selling my 2 weeks. You guys made me little confused and hesitant. You made me hate the broker idea. Should I just try to sell my timeshare via marriott themselves, and forget about selling it via other means?

Please help me with this decision. I want to get rid of my weeks for some good amount of money. It is okay to lose, but I need to get at least 50-65% of what I originally paid. Also, how do I know the current sale price for my units? It should have increased from 2010, right?

And again I'm asking: Selling my weeks will not affect my marriott reward points and my ability to use them, and my Interval International account, right?


Thanks a million.


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## bazzap (Jan 10, 2015)

iamgenius said:


> Hey people, let's not hijack my thread and talk only about maintenance fees. My point of view is :
> 
> Bottom line: The maintenance fees I'm paying every year can get me very good 5 star accommodation for about 10 days each year. When you remember that you bought two full weeks to use at your command, you feel like you have been ripped off.
> 
> ...


Selling your weeks will not affect your marriott reward points and your ability to use them.
(The MR Ts & Cs give allow them to close dormant accounts after a certain period, but I am not aware of them ever having invoked this clause)
If you are up to date with the subscription for your Interval International account, that is safe too.

It is always worth checking any MVC buyback option, in case it is worth taking.
I would not exclude sale via a reputable broker though, there are certainly one or two in Europe, I don't know about the US (obviously, avoid any charging large up front fees!)
Also, of course, advertise via TUG.

As for whether the best decision is to sell, that can only be a personal judgement.
Yes MFs continue to rise, often above inflation and yes you can now get really good deals at all sorts of quality resorts through the internet.
For us, I might prefer if we did not have to but I am prepared with MVC to plan well in advance and keep on top of the process and deadlines and I value knowing what we get with the resorts, all the other owners we are now friends with and also the staff.
Having said that, we do also get cheaper deals at the MVC resorts with Getaways and Accommodation Certificates and we do also exploit internet deals at non MVC resorts.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 10, 2015)

Is comparing the cost of a tiny high end hotel room in an affordable location to a beach front 2BR suite apples to apples?? Many high end hotels have larger suites available, and they can get extremely expensive. Try comparing something of a similar size. Maybe a little hotel room is all you need but that is another issue.

With a hotel you are not just paying for the maintenance. You are also paying for the owners profit. That's the difference with a timeshare. There is no profit in the annual fees (besides management fee, but a hotel has that too).


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## tschwa2 (Jan 10, 2015)

> So, that's that. Let's go back to selling my 2 weeks. You guys made me little confused and hesitant. You made me hate the broker idea. Should I just try to sell my timeshare via marriott themselves, and forget about selling it via other means?


If Marriott isn't brokering deals in Spain then it isn't an option.  This could change and you should contact them every so many months to see if it has changed and if you can list with them.

I am assuming you do not own a platinum week.  If you do, you may want to find a good European broker or do it yourself and you may  do ok.

For everything else, with Marriott (brokering the sale), you may get 40-50% of what you paid.  Without Marriott you will probably be looking at 10-25% of what you paid.


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## ilene13 (Jan 10, 2015)

I just paid my maintenance fees on 3 of my Marriott weeks, I had previously paid the 4th week.  The total was $3882.20.  I do not know where you go, but I cannot get a hotel room during Christmas/New Years in Aruba for 1 week, let alone 3 for that amount of money.  The Holiday Inn ( where I would never stay) was $734.85 per night.  So good luck getting 10 nights in a 5* hotel for just your maintenance fees during high season.


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## jeepie (Jan 10, 2015)

*The market is the market...*



iamgenius said:


> ...I need to get at least 50-65% of what I originally paid...


You will be able to sell for what someone offers you. That is unrelated to what you have paid. If you want to sell, it is best to keep that in mind. Cheers.


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## iamgenius (Jan 11, 2015)

jeepie said:


> You will be able to sell for what someone offers you. That is unrelated to what you have paid. If you want to sell, it is best to keep that in mind. Cheers.



Then, why would one ever buy directly from marriott? Everybody will be looking for timeshare from original buyers. They will get the same thing for much less! Right or wrong?


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## Fasttr (Jan 11, 2015)

iamgenius said:


> Then, why would one ever buy directly from marriott? Everybody will be looking for timeshare from original buyers. They will get the same thing for much less! Right or wrong?



BINGO!!  But most folks don't realize that until its too late.


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## KathyPet (Jan 11, 2015)

unfortunately what you need to get and what you will be offered if indeed you even get a offer are two entirely different things.  A potential buyer on the secondary market does not care what you need to get.  If you receive a offer and reject it looking for a higher number the potential purchaser will simply move along to another seller.
Whether the price has or has not increased since 2010 is of very little importance.  The price increase if there was one is what Marriott wants for the units not what a secondary market will support.
If you have not done so already you need to check the TUG resale listings and Red Week.  Pay no attention to asking prices.  Some sellers actually think they can get the same price as Marriott is asking.  Silly people!  Check out the listings that are marked sold.


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## iamgenius (Jan 11, 2015)

Fasttr said:


> BINGO!!  But most folks don't realize that until its too late.



It is a ripoff in my dictionary then. At the time of presentation they tell you: if you ever decide to change your mind, you can just sell it to someone else. They make it sound too easy and don't mention all this nasty stuff I'm being told now. I even remember being told you can make a profit out of selling it because prices of properties keep going up!!

Seriously, how can I know the current price of my weeks? If I'm to buy such weeks today from marriott, for how much will they sell them? Because I also remember reading somewhere prices increased significantly since the time I bought them in 2010.


Thanks.


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## bazzap (Jan 11, 2015)

iamgenius said:


> It is a ripoff in my dictionary then. At the time of presentation they tell you: if you ever decide to change your mind, you can just sell it to someone else. They make it sound too easy and don't mention all this nasty stuff I'm being told now. I even remember being told you can make a profit out of selling it because prices of properties keep going up!!
> 
> Seriously, how can I know the current price of my weeks? If I'm to buy such weeks today from marriott, for how much will they sell them? Because I also remember reading somewhere prices increased significantly since the time I bought them in 2010.
> 
> ...


To be honest, it sounds like you should sell for whatever is the best price you can get either through Marriott or a reputable broker, then write this off as an unfortunate experience and get on with the rest of your life.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 11, 2015)

> I even remember being told you can make a profit out of selling it because prices of properties keep going up!!



They generally don't say that but they certainly imply that and let you do the actual jump to that conclusion after they show you how the prices that they have been selling units for have increased and how it is deeded property and you can sell it yourself.  

You may be able to find a European broker that can help as I have heard that prices aren't quite as depressed as they are in the US.  No guarantees and you would have to be fairly confident that they can get enough of a better price to justify the cost of their commission.

My general thoughts on the resale value (if any because some have almost no resale value even if you paid $10,000+ for them) of a Marriott:
The only ones that are going to have any significant value ($5000+) are going to be ones that you can fairly easily reserve a week and then rent it out for 1.5-3 times your MF's.  The more profit, you can make without too much difficulty the more it will be worth.

Even if you can't make the rental value work it may have some worth ($1-$5000) if you can use an exchange company to trade up and get at least 1.5-3 times your MF in vacation value when you include all the exchange company ancillary fees.  Even if these aren't the vacations you would like to take but you can find someone who can find value in the inventory available then this option might be valid.

If you can rent or exchange into the same property during the season you own for the same amount or less than your current MF's then your property is essentially worthless.  

Another factor would be supply and demand.  Even if rental and/or sale prices aren't high enough but there is a much stronger demand than availability then you might have a valuable TS.  

Beachfront high season weeks generally fit the description for valuable time.  For mid season it would depend on supply vs demand.  Off season timeshares even big name ones often have very little if any value.


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## iamgenius (Jan 11, 2015)

Regarding advertising here at TUG, I can see that there is a registration that requires a fee, do I need to register and pay the fee so that I can advertise?



Anyways, I thank everybody who contributed to this thread. I highly value your participation. It is really nice to express your feelings to people and hear their comments and notes. I'll assess the whole situation again, and come back. I'm sure you guys will lead me to the best decision.

Again, thaaaaaaaanks a million.


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## Zac495 (Jan 11, 2015)

Yes but the 15 dollar fee is worth it. You should also list it on redweek.com 
I sold my Marriott at a beating. I used it for quite a few years first, so in my mind, I feel I didn't lose as much.

The biggest win was that I learned how important vacationing is to my life. 

Also now, I rent timeshares when I want to travel where good timeshares (like Marriott) are located. We traveled to Europe a lot recently - we didn't want to be tied to where timeshares are located. So selling was right for us.

I know it's shocking that you will get so much less than you paid. Live and learn. Good luck to you!
Ellen


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## KathyPet (Jan 11, 2015)

The only cases that I have heard of where a profit was made by selling a timeshare was when a buyer actually purchased at pre construction prices at a Sought after location and had a excellent week or, a buyer bought on the secondary market at a distress sale price and then sold it down the road for more than they paid.  I have never heard of any other circumstances where the seller made money.


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## Saintsfanfl (Jan 11, 2015)

KathyPet said:


> I have never heard of any other circumstances where the seller made money.



It's fairly easy to make money buying and selling timeshares resale. It's not the easiest way to make money but it's also not that hard. Definitely takes work, like most anything else.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 11, 2015)

KathyPet said:


> Marriott will not take your week to resell unless the resort is. "Sold Out" and Marriott themselves is n0 longer selling Marriott "new" weeks.  Don't know what the status of your resort is.



This "sold out" concept is from before the DC program and no longer applies.  Now they broker resale weeks from several resorts that were not "sold out" of weeks before the trust.  Today all weeks are essentially "sold out" because if they are not owned by individual owners they are owned by the trust.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 11, 2015)

KathyPet said:


> The only cases that I have heard of where a profit was made by selling a timeshare was when a buyer actually purchased at pre construction prices at a Sought after location and had a excellent week or, a buyer bought on the secondary market at a distress sale price and then sold it down the road for more than they paid.  *I have never heard of any other circumstances where the seller made money*.



*History Lesson:*

I generally agree with the substance of your comment, which is that it is nearly impossible to sell a developer purchased week for more than you paid for it unless it was purchased pre-construction.  But it is not totally accurate historically.  For example, I bought a Waiohai ocean view week in 2007 at developer prices and sold it in 2010 through Marriott Resales for a few thousand dollars more than we paid for it, believe it or not.  This was surprising because the purchase was pre-crash and the sale was post-crash.  However, after the commission we took a small loss.  

Until a few years ago, making a profit was not that unusual.  People who purchased weeks 15-25 years ago directly from Marriott could often sell them through Marriott Resales and net more than they paid until this changed in the 2008 financial and real estate crisis.  For example, you could buy a Sabal Palms red week from Marriott for $15,500 as late as 2001.  (Initial developer prices 14 years earlier were $13,700.)  In 2007 Marriott Resales was selling these weeks for the mid-twenties, netting the selling owner a profit.  All that has since changed, of course.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 11, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> This "sold out" concept is from before the DC program and no longer applies.  Now they broker resale weeks from several resorts that were not "sold out" of weeks before the trust.  Today all weeks are essentially "sold out" because if they are not owned by individual owners they are owned by the trust.



The OP's week is in Spain.  Most of us here (MALC9990, bazzap, and a few others excluded) just don't know enough about Marriott's operations to know how they may be brokering resales.  I know European members who bought pre some date are eligible to join.  I really am not sure what they are offering at their resorts.


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## MALC9990 (Jan 12, 2015)

BocaBoy said:


> This "sold out" concept is from before the DC program and no longer applies.  Now they broker resale weeks from several resorts that were not "sold out" of weeks before the trust.  Today all weeks are essentially "sold out" because if they are not owned by individual owners they are owned by the trust.


Actually for the European resorts that is not correct since the resorts cannot be included in the Trust as they are RTU resorts and so in Europe they are still selling weeks. Son Antem was sold out - 99.8% but then introuced a buy back programme for owners who had registered to sell (but only Platinum and Gold Weeks). There are original developer unsold weeks at Paris and Playa Andaluza. Marbella has been technically sold out for some years. However here in Europe if a weeks owner defaults on MFs for two years then their week is defaulted back to MVCI for sale again. So MVCI have a steady anual supply of weeks to sell again.
The only DC availability in Europe comes from enrolled owners who trade in a week for DC points.


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## MALC9990 (Jan 12, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> The OP's week is in Spain.  Most of us here (MALC9990, bazzap, and a few others excluded) just don't know enough about Marriott's operations to know how they may be brokering resales.  I know European members who bought pre some date are eligible to join.  I really am not sure what they are offering at their resorts.



Apart from the limited buy back programme at Son Antem, to resell a week in Europe you have to go to the external market. In Europe that usually means finding a broker or resale agent. Ownership at the resorts is very heavily biased towards European owners - at Son Antem one third is British and another third is German and much of the rest are various other European nationalities with a very very few US owners. So selling via Redweek, whilst possible is likely to be very limited snce it is very US orriented and so most prospective European resale buyers are unlikey to even know of Redweek.

Having bought resale on the external market twice, if the OP wants some contacts then he can PM me and I will supply some details of the brker that I have used and others that I have researched. BAZZAP, myself and several other friends have purchased through the same broker and have been happy with the purchases.


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## pafort (Jan 12, 2015)

iamgenius said:


> Hey people, let's not hijack my thread and talk only about maintenance fees. My point of view is :
> 
> Bottom line: The maintenance fees I'm paying every year can get me very good 5 star accommodation for about 10 days each year. When you remember that you bought two full weeks to use at your command, you feel like you have been ripped off.
> 
> ...



to give you an example:
I have a silver in Paris Ile de France, 2beds, paid in 2008, € 15 100:
value today, in the resale market, 0 € (perhaps € 500)
Gold Beach resort in Marbella, 1bed, paid € 18,200 in 2006:
value today in the resale market 2000/3000 € (perhaps, although I found a platinum 1bed on ebay to 5000 €)

What I realized: buy silver is COMPLETELY USELESS weeks, nay, worse, is a stupid way of throwing money, I do not imagine it and I thought I would not pay more than the MF, and take off the noose from his neck.
With II, the price of a week, is equal to 30% of the MF's, so do not pay as agreed this year in Paris € 1,301, and then see which of II week during the season you can find the silver at 300 €.

With the season gold, if you think of taking a gateway, with II, savings rather than always charge up to MF, which are higher than 800 €.

Paolo


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## MALC9990 (Jan 13, 2015)

pafort said:


> to give you an example:
> I have a silver in Paris Ile de France, 2beds, paid in 2008, € 15 100:
> value today, in the resale market, 0 € (perhaps € 500)
> Gold Beach resort in Marbella, 1bed, paid € 18,200 in 2006:
> ...



I assme you ae referring to ii Getaways when talking about buying weeks thru II. Of course Getaways are good value, when you can find one that you want. Bit these are surpluss capacity that reorts have sold to II. In the case of MVCI resorts in Europe, you will NEVER find a Getaway at peak times or even shoulder season since these weeks are either taken by owners, or traded with II for exchanges. Any weeks that go to Marriott (the hotel chain not MVCI) in exchange for Marriott Reward points are then rented for cash on Marriott.com

So relying on Getaways as a source of vacations mean mostly low season weeks - e.g. Winter in Spain. You will neve find getaways at Marriott Resortd in Spain  for May thru Oct.

As for the rise in cost of MFs - I would challenge everyone complaining to look at their resort financial statements and budgets and if they cannot get them to complain to the board chiman and keep complaining until they are made available. The budgets are usually available late in the year for the following year, audited financial statements are must less available. A good resort should publish the audited financial statement for the previous year befor the end of the following year. All documents should be available for download on the resort page for weeks owners. 

For me, I do not want corners to be cut and false savings to be made at my resorts. I want the reserve fund to be properly funded so that owners do not get a surprise special assessment in the future to make good on the poor funding for repairs and maintenance in the past. I do want the interieors of the villas to be refreshed regularly, for the furnishings to be replaced when required. I want the decoration to look good. I also expect the utility bills to be paid and taxes to be paid and finally I expect the staff to be paid a decent wage - they need to be able to live and support their families just like we owners do.

I expect the board members at my resorts to monitor the budget proposals and make recommendations for savings that can be made but not at the expense of reducing standards and causing problems in the future.


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## Cmore (Jan 13, 2015)

MALC9990 said:


> I assme you ae referring to ii Getaways when talking about buying weeks thru II. Of course Getaways are good value, when you can find one that you want. Bit these are surpluss capacity that reorts have sold to II. In the case of MVCI resorts in Europe, you will NEVER find a Getaway at peak times or even shoulder season since these weeks are either taken by owners, or traded with II for exchanges. Any weeks that go to Marriott (the hotel chain not MVCI) in exchange for Marriott Reward points are then rented for cash on Marriott.com
> 
> So relying on Getaways as a source of vacations mean mostly low season weeks - e.g. Winter in Spain. You will neve find getaways at Marriott Resortd in Spain  for May thru Oct.
> 
> ...



Well said, and agreed.


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