# The Redweek provisional exchange feature



## BocaBum99 (Jul 31, 2007)

Given the number of posts on other threads, I thought that I would start a different one on this one feature since I believe it warrants its own discussion thread.

At first, I didn't like the provisional exchange feature.  To me, a provisional exchange meant that I couldn't book it if I wanted it.  After seeing it implemented, I have changed my mind.  I think it is a very creative and clever feature for getting access (at least partial) to inventory.  I believe now that it will result in a lot of exchange volume and revenue for Redweek.

It also has some very nice side benefits.  If it works, and I think it has a good chance of success, it will be an innovation that will forever be known as Redweek's.  Kudos to Redweek.  I told you they would come up with better ideas than I had since they were risking their own money and getting daily market feedback from customers.

I have always thought that part of the way that exchange companies such as DAE make a living is by taking ongoing requests.  They know what people are looking for, so they can go find it.  When they do, they have an exchange.

The RW provisional exchange feature does something similar, but more powerful.  It gives RW a list of inventory from which others can see is potentially available, but isn't yet committed.  I didn't recognize the power of that capabillity until I saw it.  First, there is no risk, so depositers have no reservation in offering it up.  Second, they get a lot of listings almost immediately.  Third, people just need to put requests in for inventory that is actually there, but not yet committed.  That is one step better than an ongoing search because the inventory is actually there.

All of this means that Redweek has the information it needs to do the Market making that I said was important for success.

How?  Here's how.  The way you break the logjam of exchanges is by creating what I'll call exchange rings.  An exchange ring is very simple to understand.  If you have 5 deposits with A, B, C, D and E weeks.  To find an exchange ring, you need to find the combinations that result in A wants C, C wants E, E wants D, D wants B and B wants A.  The order doesn't matter.  What matters is everyone in the ring wants a different week that someone else has. (A>C>E>D>B>A).  I kind of musical chairs where there are exactly the number of seats as there are participants.

When you find such an exchange ring, you have 5 exchanges (or any number of seats in the exchange circle) and everyone is happy and they couldn't have pulled that feat off without the exchange company.

Now, what Redweek has done is create an exchange facility that enables an individual or computer to find the best combinations of exchange rings and work those deals via email and/or phone until all 5 exchanges are completed.
THIS IS AN EXTREMELY POWERFUL TOOL.  Again, Kudos to RW.

Now, this doesn't solve their exchange gap problem.  But, their exchange gap may end up being smaller using a provisional deposit, since they don't owe an exchange credit so there is a lower probablility of spoilage.  So, in one fell swoop, they solve 2 of their major problems.  The first, getting access to inventory and second, reducing spoilage.

The exchange gap problem can be solved by renting weeks from other owners to complete exchange rings.  Since their exchange gap is small by not offering bonus weeks and using provisional deposits to only owe credits after exchanges are made.

Congrats Redweek.  I think you are bringing at least 2 innovations to the industry.  First, a points based 3rd party exchange company and Second, a provisional deposit facility.

I am significantly raising my probability of your success to well over 50% now and would recommend that everyone provide provisional exchange requests into Redweek.

I think the only company that would have a chance to beat you at this game is Vacationtimesharerentals due to their technology.  I don't think myresortnetwork has a site good enough to pull off what you are attempting.


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## Elan (Jul 31, 2007)

May be a stupid question, but is ownership verified on these provisional deposits?

  It is encouraging to see the provisional deposits.  At least it lets me know that there's potential to RW's system.


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## thinze3 (Jul 31, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> .........THIS IS AN EXTREMELY POWERFUL TOOL. Again, Kudos to RW....... Congrats Redweek. I think you are bringing at least 2 innovations to the industry. First, a points based 3rd party exchange company and Second, a provisional deposit facility.
> 
> I am significantly raising my probability of your success to well over 50% now and would recommend that everyone provide provisional exchange requests into Redweek...........





*BOCA*
Is that you. The same guy I accused of working for RCI two weeks ago?

I got another one for you:
*NEWS ALERT! RedWeek has a Hawaii week for exchange!*

http://www.redweek.com/resort/P1773


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## bigeyes1 (Jul 31, 2007)

At first, I was confused when I saw the "Provisional" weeks listed along side the Exchange ones.  Now that I understand it more, I am genuinely excited for RW and for all of the members (including me).   I really think they have something and hope it proves to be successful.  

We're depositing a week within RW as soon as we pay out maintenance fees.  We may go the "Provisional" route, but I'm definitely game.  

WAY TO GO, RW!!!


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## taffy19 (Jul 31, 2007)

Boca, you are a genius as you seem to have it all figured out already.     I sincerely hope that RedWeek will succeed so people will have another exchange company they can use, trust and be happy with and a system that is transparent and fair to everyone.

Also, RedWeek doesn't have a conflict of interest because they don't have to keep Wall Street happy and trying to keep their subscribers happy too.  They should have been served first because they are paying customers and trust them with their product that they gave up for an exchange.  

I still don't understand why people keep using RCI if they are so unhappy with the company.  There are other independent exchange companies out there already.


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## TUGBrian (Jul 31, 2007)

well its good to know that many of you are interested in listing your weeks/etc on a provisional basis =)


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## urban5 (Jul 31, 2007)

*Provisional Weeks*

When I saw the provisional listings on RW my initial thought was RW posted all the units that were submitted for the free appraisal, but then the owners allowed the offer to expire.


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## PeelBoy (Jul 31, 2007)

When I deposited my week, I was not given the option.  Too bad, but I took the risk.

I am not sure about the provisional weeks.  For now, they are like bystanders watching the very few swimmers.  If we drown, will they rescue us.  I guess not.

The redemption from provisional to confirmed is critical; otherwise Redweek will be at risk.

If majority of these weeks will be confirmed, other exchange companies will face a real challenge.


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## PeelBoy (Jul 31, 2007)

urban5 said:


> When I saw the provisional listings on RW my initial thought was RW posted all the units that were submitted for the free appraisal, but then the owners allowed the offer to expire.




No way, that's misrepresentation.

Can anyone answer this question?


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## djyamyam (Jul 31, 2007)

TUG Improvements! said:


> well its good to know that many of you are interested in listing your weeks/etc on a provisional basis =)


 
On just a quick review, I note there are 9 provisional deposits for the Four Seasons Aviara and 16 provisional deposits for Marriott Newport Coast.  We always knew that people had the ownership weeks.  However, the question remains the same.  

Who is going to deposit first?  Is it the chicken or the egg?  "I'm not going to deposit until I see something good".  Well now people can see what's potentially available.  Something still needs to give them that final push to actually deposit.  Everyone's going to click on the "notify me" and have a half million all wanting the one or two available units.  

Welcome to the world of the exchange company


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## bnoble (Jul 31, 2007)

> When I saw the provisional listings on RW my initial thought was RW posted all the units that were submitted for the free appraisal, but then the owners allowed the offer to expire.


And that could be what they are.  I just submitted a week for evaluation, and there was a check-box for "willing to deposit if a suitable exchange is found."  If my week shows up in the provisional list, well, we know where they are coming from.

The good news: that's okay.  Redweek knows who I am, and they know what other weeks I would exchange for through the "notify me" links.  I clicked on perhaps a half-dozen.  If that creates a cycle, then redweek (and the owners) all win.

I'm wondering how many cycles will really be created.  Most of us only want to trade up.  By definition, not everyone in a cycle can be trading up.  We'll see how effective this is, then.


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## bigeyes1 (Jul 31, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> No way, that's misrepresentation.
> 
> Can anyone answer this question?



I did an evaluation on one resort yesterday.  This week doesn't show up as a Provisional listing. So, I'm assuming these are actual deposited weeks from people who are taking a less risky route.


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## SharonD (Jul 31, 2007)

Sorry if this is a dumb question or has already been covered-- I haven't really figured out how the DAE / Redweek relationship works, though I've tried to read through the other threads. 

If someone who has a "provisional" week listed deposits with Redweek, and I get notification that the deposit is now available, will I be able to go over to DAE and see the week listed (assuming, of course, that no one else has grabbed it yet)?  Or will provisional deposited weeks only be available from Redweek?  

I would consider depositing with Redweek, but I have some DAE deposits I'd like to use up first.


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## taffy19 (Jul 31, 2007)

bnoble said:


> I'm wondering how many cycles will really be created.  Most of us only want to trade up.  By definition, not everyone in a cycle can be trading up.  We'll see how effective this is, then.


I have never understood this mentality.  Are people exchanging for beating the system in *dollar value* mainly or are people exchanging to go to a different place at a different time of the year or both different time and location?

We have made a few exchanges in the past and they must have been down trades in your eyes but that's when and where we wanted to vacation.  We never felt that we were short changed.

Why make life so complicated for yourself?


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 31, 2007)

thinze3 said:


> *BOCA*
> Is that you. The same guy I accused of working for RCI two weeks ago?
> 
> I got another one for you:
> ...



I am NOT against RW.  I told you that I wanted them to be successful.  As the facts came about about what they are doing, I called it as I saw it.  And, I provided the disclaimer that I could be wrong and I said I was sure that they are learning more than I am.  As facts present themselves, I update my evaluation.  I will continue to do so.

Notice that I am NOT declaring them winners yet.  I only increased my probability of success as I see how they can overcome a couple of major critical success factors.  They still need to execute.  What I AM saying is that I understand how they can turn provisional deposits into exchanges via the market making process I described.  If RW is not yet doing what I suggest, then they will have fewer exchanges and I could update my assessment downward again.  However, I can now see how they can make it work.  So, even if they don't see it yet (which I seriously doubt), they will eventually.

Note, that I did NOT recommend making anything but a provisional deposit.  That is the least risk process for your week.   Anyone who deposited before the provisional deposit feature took an unneccessary risk.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 31, 2007)

iconnections said:


> Boca, you are a genius as you seem to have it all figured out already.



No, not a genius, but very observant.  I enjoy trying to figure out how things work and determining critical success factors.  That helps me pick stocks as well as business initiatives to pursue.


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## taffy19 (Jul 31, 2007)

Boca, I should have said "smart" and you are and very generous too with sharing your wealth of information.  I read all your posts.


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## Mel (Jul 31, 2007)

If it works as suggested, this is one step better than the deposit first system used by II.  Redweek will have two ways to fulfill these "rings."  First, if they can create a chain of 8-10 owners whose needs create a circle, and all agree to the exchange, it becomes a multi-person exchange.

But they can also use the weeks they already have on deposit.  Say they have a chain of 15 provisional exchanges waiting to be filled, and they just need a way to link them.  Person #16 comes along with the week that person 15 wants.  If person 16 wants week #1 you end up with the ring of exchanges.  But that person can also complete an open-ended chain by simply depositing the week, and waiting for something else he wants.  Each of the first 15 people get what they want for an exchange, and the net result to the pool of weeks is that Person $16 has a credit, and week #1 is sitting in the pool.  Assuming week #1 is somewhat equal in value to what person #16 wants for exchange, the system remains balanced.


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## BocaBum99 (Jul 31, 2007)

Mel said:


> If it works as suggested, this is one step better than the deposit first system used by II.  Redweek will have two ways to fulfill these "rings."  First, if they can create a chain of 8-10 owners whose needs create a circle, and all agree to the exchange, it becomes a multi-person exchange.
> 
> But they can also use the weeks they already have on deposit.  Say they have a chain of 15 provisional exchanges waiting to be filled, and they just need a way to link them.  Person #16 comes along with the week that person 15 wants.  If person 16 wants week #1 you end up with the ring of exchanges.  But that person can also complete an open-ended chain by simply depositing the week, and waiting for something else he wants.  Each of the first 15 people get what they want for an exchange, and the net result to the pool of weeks is that Person $16 has a credit, and week #1 is sitting in the pool.  Assuming week #1 is somewhat equal in value to what person #16 wants for exchange, the system remains balanced.



Yep, you see it the way I do.  And, as long as a person gets at least one exchange for their deposit, they are not likely to be turned off by an expired credit.


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## Steve (Jul 31, 2007)

*Appraisal request appears to = provisional exchange*



urban5 said:


> When I saw the provisional listings on RW my initial thought was RW posted all the units that were submitted for the free appraisal, but then the owners allowed the offer to expire.



Actually, I think that this is exactly what the provisional exchange weeks are.  What do I base this on?

A couple of weeks ago, I requested free appraisals on three resorts.  One of them is a very high end, small resort with only 15 units.  Most owners use their weeks there, and none of the exchange companies get many deposits.  Another one was a Four Seasons Aviara week that I just purchased.

Well, guess what?  All three of my resorts are available as provisional exchanges...for EXACTLY the weeks I requested appraisals for.  Even the small little resort where II and RCI have no inventory.  Now what are the chances of that???  Based on this, I'm quite certain that Redweek is listing the weeks of some who request an appraisal as "provisional exchanges".  

The thing is...I have no intention of depositing or exchanging any of these weeks through Redweek.  I was merely curious as to their value.  After finding out their value, I am definitely not going to deposit them as I was not pleased.  So those three provisional exchanges are very unlikely indeed. 

Steve


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## thinze3 (Aug 1, 2007)

*...why people keep using RCI...*



iconnections said:


> .........I still don't understand why people keep using RCI if they are so unhappy with the company.  There are other independent exchange companies out there already.



I have been using RCI for the last five or six years and each year it has become more and more disappointing. I have a pending search for a Texas coastal property for mid March and early June that has been going on since late Feb.

I spoke last week to an RCI rep and let him know how disappointed I have been and that each year it only gets worse. My deposit was a March 2007 spring break 3BR at Christie Lodge that rents at the resort for $409/night. After complaining loudly a bit to the salesman, he said, "Let me check something."

He came back and said, "I found a week for you."  He described it and I told to sign it up. I was a little upset because the RCI website was down and I couldn't "see" the resort. I ask him how he just happen to "find" this week. He said he had to "over ride" my trading power and manually get.

This is where it gets interesting. I was now looking on the RedWeek site where I could "SEE" the resort he was talking about. I almost died and began to turn red!! It was a dump that rents for half at best of what my week rented for.

I told him "What the hell do you mean, you had to over ride my week? This place is a piece of crap!" I asked him to explain. He said, "You should deposit your week earlier." Hmm. I remembered depositing my week last year, so I asked him to confirm my deposit date. He quoted, "you deposited your week in June 2006."

*Let me recap this:
My unit was a mid March, 3BR on a RCI Silver Crown ski resort.
My week was deposited 9 months prior to use.
My search was going on since February (plenty of time for the March deposits).
RCI had to "over ride" a March 2008 2BR dump so I could get it.

Does anyone else smell something??*

I politely told the guy to cancel the hold on the week, and that I would just keep looking!  

He stated, "Your RCI membership is up in 2008. Would you like to extend that?"  
I responded, "No, and would you happen to know the phone number to Interval International?"

Anyhow, I added FL Panhandle to my search. We shall see.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 1, 2007)

thinze3 said:


> I have been using RCI for the last five or six years and each year it has become more and more disappointing. I have a pending search for a Texas coastal property for mid March and early June that has been going on since late Feb.
> 
> I spoke last week to an RCI rep and let him know how disappointed I have been and that each year it only gets worse. My deposit was a March 2007 spring break 3BR at Christie Lodge that rents at the resort for $409/night. After complaining loudly a bit to the salesman, he said, "Let me check something."
> 
> ...



It sounds to me as if he did an override on the VEP filter.  The VEP filter is in place specifically to prevent what you are complaining about, viz., getting an exchange that is considered to be too much inferior to your deposit.

The VEP filter can only be overridden manually by a Vacation Guide supervisor; when he walked away that is what he was doing.

So, in essence you're complaining because at your request RCI removed the filter that was in place specifically to prevent our complaint.


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## Elan (Aug 1, 2007)

Steve said:


> Actually, I think that this is exactly what the provisional exchange weeks are.  What do I base this on?
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, I requested free appraisals on three resorts.  One of them is a very high end, small resort with only 15 units.  Most owners use their weeks there, and none of the exchange companies get many deposits.  Another one was a Four Seasons Aviara week that I just purchased.
> 
> ...



  If this is the case, then Redweek is pissing all over themselves.  I requested a deposit value for a week I don't own, just to find out how many points I'd need to exchange into a "provisional" week.  I'd hate to think that this would show up as a provisional deposit...................

  I believe the onus is upon Redweek to get the ball rolling.  They keep trying to sweeten the pot without any additional exposure.


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## PerryM (Aug 1, 2007)

*Musical chairs – it’s hell when the music ends....*



BocaBum99 said:


> Given the number of posts on other threads, I thought that I would start a different one on this one feature since I believe it warrants its own discussion thread.
> 
> At first, I didn't like the provisional exchange feature.  To me, a provisional exchange meant that I couldn't book it if I wanted it.  After seeing it implemented, I have changed my mind.  I think it is a very creative and clever feature for getting access (at least partial) to inventory.  I believe now that it will result in a lot of exchange volume and revenue for Redweek.
> 
> ...





As a kid, musical chairs was a high tech game – it used a phonograph.  We loved the game and marched around the chairs until the music ended – then it was hell.

Not to throw water on a great observation from BB, will there actually be the A-B, B-C, C-D, D-E, and E-A chain?  Will RW send the eMails needed to make all 5 folks pull the trigger at the same time?

At least RW seems to be doing something with their exchange system – I was afraid that the kid in charge of it went on vacation with the family. 

P.S.
I have 2 provisional exchanges out there - both phony since I was experimenting to find out what their Point system was based upon.  Let's see if I am ever contacted. 

I have actually clicked the "Notify Me" button for 2 units I'm interested in and will see if anyone contacts me.

I sure hope RW is reading this thread and realizes that BB's chain theory might get their business going and finally answer that difficult question "Chicken or egg or BB".

P.P.S.
What will RW do when A wants B and B wants A and both are provisional.  If it takes a week for someone to get a notice that B wants your A unit so you need to deposit and we will get back to you I can see this grinding to a halt real quick.

But positive thoughts, positive thoughts....


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## Elan (Aug 1, 2007)

PerryM said:


> As a kid, musical chairs was a high tech game – it used a phonograph.  We loved the game and marched around the chairs until the music ended – then it was hell.
> 
> Not to throw water on a great observation from BB, will there actually be the A-B, B-C, C-D, D-E, and E-A chain?  Will RW send the eMails needed to make all 5 folks pull the trigger at the same time?
> 
> At least RW seems to be doing something with their exchange system – I was afraid that the kid in charge of it went on vacation with the family.



  Unfortunately, there's too many missing pieces for all of this to work as described.  Firstly, the provisional deposits need to be verified.  Secondly, the conditions under which the deposits move from provisional to real must be identified.  These are not trivial.

  It's kinda like in sports, when two teams want to trade players.  First, the players have to be free of no-trade clauses in their contracts.  And secondly, the new ball club needs to have assurances that they can re-sign the player at the end of his current contract.  Otherwise, no deal.

  What seems simple on paper isn't always so in reality.

  BTW, I confirmed what was speculated on earlier.  Simply requesting a valuation from RW and checking the "provisional exchange" box in the process will make the week show up as a provisional deposit.................


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## bnoble (Aug 1, 2007)

> We have made a few exchanges in the past and they must have been down trades in your eyes but that's when and where we wanted to vacation. We never felt that we were short changed.


Well, for what it's worth, so have I, and neither have I---heck, I've even exchanged into average resorts in Orlando of all places! 

But, the average timesharer wants to go skiing in winter, or to the beach in summer, no matter where and when he or she owns.  There will be some eye-of-the-beholder exchanges where everyone feels like they've won, but those will mostly take place at higher-end resorsts during higher-demand time.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 1, 2007)

Elan said:


> Unfortunately, there's too many missing pieces for all of this to work as described.  Firstly, the provisional deposits need to be verified.  Secondly, the conditions under which the deposits move from provisional to real must be identified.  These are not trivial.
> 
> It's kinda like in sports, when two teams want to trade players.  First, the players have to be free of no-trade clauses in their contracts.  And secondly, the new ball club needs to have assurances that they can re-sign the player at the end of his current contract.  Otherwise, no deal.
> 
> ...



It is for these exact reasons that I did not yet declare them victors of the exchange game.

I completely agree that getting 5 people to simultaneously commit is an issue.
However, it is possible.

At this point, I believe that RW will have to take action in order to make their exchange system work.  I doubt that their initial business case for the exchange service required many people.    But, to make these complex exchnage rings happens will take saavy people.  The upside is that when they do find an exchange ring, it's mostly multiple exchanges.  So, you can hire people who are on commission to find them.

I've said from the start that this exchange system will take market makers for success.  All exchange companies have them.  If RW doesn't add people to perform this function, I'll be reducing my probability of success.  This may be a more service intensive business than they hoped.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 1, 2007)

Elan said:


> If this is the case, then Redweek is pissing all over themselves.  I requested a deposit value for a week I don't own, just to find out how many points I'd need to exchange into a "provisional" week.  I'd hate to think that this would show up as a provisional deposit...................
> 
> I believe the onus is upon Redweek to get the ball rolling.  They keep trying to sweeten the pot without any additional exposure.



My comment had nothing to do with Redweek.  The person I was responding to (quoted in my reply) was complaining about RCI, not Redweek.

Redweek has sidestepped this issue the proper way - by using points and letting the exchanger know the value that Redweek assigns to both of the weeks.   They don't have to play the game of trying to ensure that exchanges are similar quality.


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## Elan (Aug 1, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> My comment had nothing to do with Redweek.  The person I was responding to (quoted in my reply) was complaining about RCI, not Redweek.
> 
> Redweek has sidestepped this issue the proper way - by using points and letting the exchanger know the value that Redweek assigns to both of the weeks.   They don't have to play the game of trying to ensure that exchanges are similar quality.



  I was responding to the "other" Steve (quoted) from SLC.


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## PeelBoy (Aug 1, 2007)

*Done*

I have spent all my points.

Desposited Myrtle Beach 2 bedroom for 2017 points. 

Exchanged one bedroom in Scotland - 1309 points.

Exchanged a hotel room in SFO - 718 points.

Both weeks are pink - not bright red but not blue/white either.

Cost:
MF: $630.
Exchange fees: $250
Cancellation insurance: $50
Point purchase: $10

Total cost is $940 for 2 weeks, i.e. $67 per night.

I have to find another week or two to deposit with Redweek in case their dream of provisional week (Westin St. John and Atlantis) becomes true.


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## thinze3 (Aug 1, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> It sounds to me as if he did an override on the VEP filter.  The VEP filter is in place specifically to prevent what you are complaining about, viz., getting an exchange that is considered to be too much inferior to your deposit.
> 
> The VEP filter can only be overridden manually by a Vacation Guide supervisor; when he walked away that is what he was doing.
> 
> So, in essence you're complaining because at your request RCI removed the filter that was in place specifically to prevent our complaint.




I totally understand that he "overrode the filter". That is exactly my point!

Why did he have to do that? If you read the details you will see that my week, with a better location, date, size, and long term deposit and search, were completely out of kilter with what he offered!!!

RCI has a "filter" that will not in any way, shape, or form, allow me to get an "equal" week. The only possiblility was/is to get a much more inferior week.

Why is that? Could they possibly be renting those weeks out? Did anybody get my deposited week? Probably not.

From what I am seeing, one would have had to of turned in a Westin Maui or better to get my week on a trade. That's ridiculous.  

Point is: RCI will only give you inferior trades nowadays. They have been trending downward for a couple of years. Might as well try RedWeek. That is what I did with my 2008 ski week.


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## thinze3 (Aug 1, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> I have spent all my points.
> 
> Desposited Myrtle Beach 2 bedroom for 2017 points.
> 
> ...




I believe you are the most successful trader to date on RedWeek!   

I never saw YOUR week in Surfside. Did you?

PS- If Westin St. Johns comes available - you'll be second in line!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 1, 2007)

thinze3 said:


> .



What week in March was the ski week?  If it's a pink week, I think you might have been just caught in the classic VEP trap.

My personal experience has been that rental rates in western NA ski resorts in late season correlate poorly with trade power. The rental market retains much more late season value than does the timeshare exchange market.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 1, 2007)

PeelBoy said:


> I have spent all my points.
> 
> Desposited Myrtle Beach 2 bedroom for 2017 points.
> 
> ...




Congrats.  You deserve it for being such a daredevil.


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## thinze3 (Aug 1, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> What week in March was the ski week?  If it's a pink week, I think you might have been just caught in the classic VEP trap.
> 
> My personal experience has been that rental rates in western NA ski resorts in late season correlate poorly with trade power. The rental market retains much more late season value than does the timeshare exchange market.




There is no such thing as a "pink" week at a ski resort in mid March. The only weeks that trade stronger are 51 & 52 and those are usually fixed. Sometimes week 6 is strong as well.

The week was March 17th.


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## djyamyam (Aug 1, 2007)

thinze3 said:


> I believe you are the most successful trader to date on RedWeek!
> 
> I never saw YOUR week in Surfside. Did you?


 
It's still there


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## Elan (Aug 1, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> At this point, I believe that RW will have to take action in order to make their exchange system work.  I doubt that their initial business case for the exchange service required many people.    But, to make these complex exchnage rings happens will take saavy people.  The upside is that when they do find an exchange ring, it's mostly multiple exchanges.  So, you can hire people who are on commission to find them.



  I tend to think that the exchange game is not rocket science.  It can certainly be enhanced over time to be more complex, but in essence only two primary aspects need to be in place for an exchange to occur:

1) Is there a week available at a destination/time that the potential depositor would like to travel?

2) Does the potential depositor have the trade power or collateral to acquire that week?

  Looking at these 2 aspects wrt Redweek's system:

1)  At this point, RW has shown no capacity to provide (attract) desirable weeks into their system.   As has been shown, the "provisional exchanges" they list are deceptive at best.  It's a no risk tactic designed to lure the unknowing into making blind deposits.

2) We can all get evaluations of our owned weeks (in RW points).  That's great.  The other half of the equation is to let potential depositors know in advance how many RW points will be required to execute every possible exchange.  To this second point, there needs to be a massive spreadsheet (grid) made available that values every week at every resort that they may take as a deposit.  This can be simplified by averaging, as RCI does, and refined later.  The ability to buy RW points allows for trading up, but this needs to be normalized by Redweek agreeing to buy back points (at a lesser price).

  Of course, the above is predicated on the theory that Redweek's exchange mission is to generate income by providing fair exchanges for a fee.   If the charter is to maximize profit by siphoning off weeks for rentals, etc., then all of this can be thrown out the window............


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 1, 2007)

Elan said:


> I tend to think that the exchange game is not rocket science.  It can certainly be enhanced over time to be more complex, but in essence only two primary aspects need to be in place for an exchange to occur:
> 
> 1) Is there a week available at a destination/time that the potential depositor would like to travel?
> 
> ...



Neither is stock picking.  All you need to do is buy low and sell high.  Yet, some people do better than others.  So, the skill at which RW can create an exchange system will determine how successful they are.  For the first time, I see how it could be possible using provisional exchanges.  Before that, I saw almost no chance of success.

Maybe I should just say that if I had access to their system, I could hire a bunch of people to match potential exchangers with each other.

I am NOT saying that their way is the best way to create an exchange company.  I say that because I have what I believe is a better idea in my mind's eye.  I am saying that they've got a chance if they play their cards right.


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## normalrog (Aug 1, 2007)

*Me Too !*



Steve said:


> Actually, I think that this is exactly what the provisional exchange weeks are.  What do I base this on?
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, I requested free appraisals on three resorts.  One of them is a very high end, small resort with only 15 units.  Most owners use their weeks there, and none of the exchange companies get many deposits.  Another one was a Four Seasons Aviara week that I just purchased.
> 
> ...



Exactly my experience - I requested quotes on 5 different resorts, including 3 lock-offs, so I requested quotes for those resorts as both 1BR and 2BR.  I checked the box in the quote request form that I would be willing to deposit, not realizing that this box had any real meaning other than market info gathering.  All 9 quotes showed up immediately as "provisional" availability at RW, including the duplicate weeks for the lock-off unit quotes.

I am in agreement with Boca's theory, however, these "provisional" deposits are soft indeed.  RW has no idea whether I would actually deposit any of these units under any circumstances, whether at the time of a completed "circle" I have committed that deposit elsewhere, or in fact whether I actually own such a deposit at all.  I imagine that in reality, successfully completing a "circle" will be so complicated that it is not cost effective for RW.

Roger Elliott
normalrog@aol.com


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## TUGBrian (Aug 1, 2007)

so what if somethign existed that allowed you to enter everything you had....

and enter everything you WANT (wishlist per se)  along with searching what everyone else had entered in.

Then notified you when a match existed?


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## bnoble (Aug 1, 2007)

Be careful.  I can see the smoke curling out of your ears.


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## Elan (Aug 1, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> Neither is stock picking.  All you need to do is buy low and sell high.  Yet, some people do better than others.  So, the skill at which RW can create an exchange system will determine how successful they are.  For the first time, I see how it could be possible using provisional exchanges.  Before that, I saw almost no chance of success.
> 
> Maybe I should just say that if I had access to their system, I could hire a bunch of people to match potential exchangers with each other.
> 
> I am NOT saying that their way is the best way to create an exchange company.  I say that because I have what I believe is a better idea in my mind's eye.  I am saying that they've got a chance if they play their cards right.



  What I'm saying is that because RCI and others have lowered (dropped?) the bar and that folks are clammoring to find another exchange venue, perhaps the complexity doesn't need to exist to get RW's system airborn.  Implement that later.  

  The biggest obstacle to RW's success would seem to be their unwillingness to assume risk.  I stand to be proven wrong.  Maybe they will get enough "blind faith" deposits to get the ball rolling.  But their concept of "provisional exchange" is a step in the wrong direction, IMHO, because it's designed to mislead and thus destroys trust.  If their model is predicated on getting owners to deposit without any guarantee of exchange or compensation, then I don't think destroying trust is a good thing.  

  Having said all this, I hope they're successful.

  Edited to add:  I don't mind the _concept_ of provisional exchange as long as it's been somehow verified.  I take issue with RW's _current definition_ of provisional exchange.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 1, 2007)

Elan said:


> The biggest obstacle to RW's success would seem to be their unwillingness to assume risk.



I completely agree with this assertion.  To be successful, you have to take a risk somewhere. 

They can easily take risk by purchasing weeks and depositing themselves.  Or, adopt your idea of paying back 80% of point value.  But, that would make them accountable for the proper assignment of points.  

If it were my exchange company, that is exactly what I would be doing.  But, if you do that, then you don't start by supporting ALL resorts in ALL locations.  You start with the few resorts or resort group you know and add on others later.

So, their general approach does not lend itself to taking risk.  They would have to slim down their target signficantly or go broke really fast.

One idea that would help mitigate the risk is to attract entrepreneurs into the game who want to use their facility to do the market making.  Market making is always the highest value function.  That is why eBay is so profitable.  Infrastructure is high value when you are arming parties in a technology war such as the telecom wars of the late 1990's when any equipment manufacturer of telecom gear made tons of sales and had huge market caps.

We shall see if RW takes the right sets of risks and puts the right people in place to turn their technology and ideas into business success.


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## thinze3 (Aug 1, 2007)

TUG Improvements! said:


> so what if somethign existed that allowed you to enter everything you had....
> 
> and enter everything you WANT (wishlist per se)  along with searching what everyone else had entered in.
> 
> Then notified you when a match existed?



That would limit you to trading one for one. If I found something or someone that had what I wanted, chances that they wanted what I have would be very slim at best.


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## TUGBrian (Aug 1, 2007)

Unfortunately without taking in weeks...it becomes quite difficult to arrange other scenarios.


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## rcnet (Aug 1, 2007)

*Don't be afraid of the water...it's warm inside.*

A lot of folks here are afraid to dip there toes in the water.  A lot of backseat drivers, Tuesday morning quarterbacks. 

We'll, I'm one of those "blind faith" depositors.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Redweek is on to something here.  My ideal "marketplace" consists of...
1. I can see what's available (or at least possibly coming soon), WITHOUT having to commit my week.
2. I can value my week versus another's WITHOUT having to commit my week.
3. A reasonable exchange fee.  

Here's a solid example.  I have a summer red timeshare that I got 2017 points for.  I'm looking to make a trade into Orlando/Disney.  My time period is spring 2008, and I'd be happy with anything considered RCI "Distinction" or higher. 

I've seen enough provisional weeks to realize that even if they only convert 1 out of 4 provisional weeks to real weeks, I'll still have enough places/times to consider.  So, my risk is less than 25% that I won't get what I want to be considered "happy".  Seems like a pretty low risk to me.  Plus, I'm checking it daily now, so chances are slim that I'll let something good slip by.

In fact, I saw a resort that I liked already, it's just that the time isn't exactly appropriate.  So, I'm happy to wait it out for the next one.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 1, 2007)

rcnet said:


> A lot of folks here are afraid to dip there toes in the water.  A lot of backseat drivers, Tuesday morning quarterbacks.
> 
> We'll, I'm one of those "blind faith" depositors.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Redweek is on to something here.  My ideal "marketplace" consists of...
> 1. I can see what's available (or at least possibly coming soon), WITHOUT having to commit my week.
> ...



Good for you.  If it makes you happy, that's all that matters.  It can be fun being one of the first of anything.

For me, I probably wouldn't use RW as my first choice for Orlando.  Why?  Because Orlando is so plentiful in RCI and II that it is the easiest trade in all of timesharing.  You can get a great Orlando week for $300 or less.  Trade ups happen all day long.

But, as I said, if it makes you happy, go for it.  That's all that really matters.


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## rcnet (Aug 1, 2007)

BocaBum99 said:


> For me, I probably wouldn't use RW as my first choice for Orlando.  Why?  Because Orlando is so plentiful in RCI and II that it is the easiest trade in all of timesharing.  You can get a great Orlando week for $300 or less.  Trade ups happen all day long.



_Orlando is so plentiful in RCI._  We'll, you see, that's just it.  I can't SEE anything in RCI unless I have an active RCI account.  Everything is heresay for me.  So that costs me ($89.00, last time I checked).  But wait, that doesn't get me anything, because I have to spacebank my week and put in a search for (what is it now $164 ???).  So, before I could even PEEK at my dream vacation, I'm already out, almost $250.  Wow, what a deal


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 1, 2007)

rcnet said:


> _Orlando is so plentiful in RCI._  We'll, you see, that's just it.  I can't SEE anything in RCI unless I have an active RCI account.  Everything is heresay for me.  So that costs me ($89.00, last time I checked).  But wait, that doesn't get me anything, because I have to spacebank my week and put in a search for (what is it now $164 ???).  So, before I could even PEEK at my dream vacation, I'm already out, almost $250.  Wow, what a deal



I don't blame you.  For me, I have 4 or 5 of them.  I wish I could give them away.  Most of my timeshare ownerships offer me a "free" RCI account along with my annual dues.  They will never refund part of my fees when I tell them I already have several accounts.


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## PeelBoy (Aug 1, 2007)

Slowly but real.

I have been watching Redweek since day 1.  There are exchange activities for sure.  Inventory has gone up.  Some provisional weeks have become confirmed, i.e. Cayman Island.

I agree nobody wants to take the risk if they don't see what they want - just a normal behaviour.  I chose to jump into the water because Redweek has what I need to supplement what RCI and II cannot do, e.g. Australia, Scotland, Bali and SFO.

My 2 exchanges are fair.  I don't believe I have traded up or down.  Exchange fees are much lower than the big two.


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## bigeyes1 (Aug 2, 2007)

Well, I took the plunge and finally deposited a week into RW.     I don't know why it was so hard to click on that deposit button, but nevertheless, it's done and I did it!!!!

First of all, I love DAE and their personalized service. I think what pushed me into doing it was .....  After scanning over DAE's weeks, I noticed the same weeks were listed over on RW, too.   So, I really didn't have much to lose. With DAE being a part of RW's exchange system, I feel reassured.  

Who knows?  I may be able to get two exchanges out of my one deposit.  That sure would be nice. 

Btw- my week was listed as a Provisional week, but it's no longer listed as such.  As a matter of fact, I don't even see my week, yet.  I'm sure RW has to verify the week with my resort first.  Does it still take approx. two weeks for the deposit to show up?


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## thinze3 (Aug 2, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> ..................Who knows?  I may be able to get two exchanges out of my one deposit.  That sure would be nice.
> 
> Btw- my week was listed as a Provisional week, but it's no longer listed as such.  As a matter of fact, I don't even see my week, yet.  I'm sure RW has to verify the week with my resort first.  Does it still take approx. two weeks for the deposit to show up?





  You just keep on dancing!  
I have 1800 points to spend. What week and location did you deposit?


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## bigeyes1 (Aug 2, 2007)

It's our Cliffs week in Las Vegas.  

I wish I could deposit our PAHIO week, but hubby refuses to part with his beloved Kauai week.  I sure can get A LOT of points with that one.   Oh well.  This is a start.  

I already see something I like in the timeframe we need it, but I have to convince my DH first.  And I'll even have some leftover points, too!!


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## Phill12 (Aug 2, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> Well, I took the plunge and finally deposited a week into RW.
> 
> Who knows?  I may be able to get two exchanges out of my one deposit.  That sure would be nice.
> 
> Btw- my week was listed as a Provisional week, but it's no longer listed as such.  As a matter of fact, I don't even see my week, yet.  I'm sure RW has to verify the week with my resort first.  Does it still take approx. two weeks for the deposit to show up?




Trish, I did get reply post from Marty to my question of why the provisional list doesn't show the points needed to trade for it! 
 I just thought it would be easier to know how many points you would need to get the exchange! What is the point of wasting everyones time by having notice sent to you and then find they want more than you could pay! 

 She said they don't list points because they don't know how many points yet! Even though they told owner the points this number is only good at that time! This point amount will probley change by time owner gives the unit to Redweek!

 This ring everyone talks about seems to only include a small number of high rated resort owners who in many cases would be exchanging amoung their small group! This still would leave the group with lower rated units out.

 This is alright and lower rated resort or weeks owners would still be stuck trading amoung their resorts too! This I would think is why lower rated resorts or weeks owners joined Redweek and made deposit! They want to trade up,something probley not availble with their trading company.

 When did you find how many points and how large of a change from the points RW first told you?

 Just seems this goes against what Redweek started off with!


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## bigeyes1 (Aug 2, 2007)

SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> When did you find how many points and how large of a change from the points RW first told you?
> 
> Just seems this goes against what Redweek started off with!




RW told me I would receive 1450 points for depositing my 1BR Cliffs week.  I received the (same amount of) points immediately after I deposited my week.  The points are now showing up in my account.  

Prior to my deposit, my week showed up as Provisional Listing.  Now it's gone.  I guess provisional weeks disappear once deposited until RW  has a chance to verify it by the resort.  Once RW has done this, I'm sure the weeks will show up under the Exchange Listings instead of PL (provisional listing).


I, too, would like to see how many points it would "cost" while in the Provisional stage. That way I'll know if I'll need to buy more points or have some leftover, if the week should get deposited.  

I don't understand how RW can make you an offer for your week and then change the amount of points once deposited/listed.  That doesn't make sense to me.  Has this happened to anyone?

I would also like to add that I would be upset if RW offered me ______ amount of points and listed it for more. That's greed and I don't take that too lightly.  That's the MAIN reason why I got out of RCI.


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## PerryM (Aug 2, 2007)

*Not another ship going belly up?*

If you remove the provisional units, Canada and Mexico we are now at 3.5 pages of US units available.  Call me crazy but this looks smaller than 2 weeks ago.  My 2 units have been snapped up by someone – they were Christmas ski weeks.  I did my part.

I’m going to take a wild guess here and state the RW is in a lot of trouble.  I have 2 years and 10 months to find something but I don’t see RW stepping up with some cash to keep the ship afloat for that period of time.

I must say that I’m very disappointed in RW and almost 2 months into this new venture the stench of a rotting corps is beginning to become nauseating.

RW, you are going to have to pump some money into this to demonstrate that this is something but a wife’s half-baked dream. I say that because I went thru one of these when I worked at Anheuser-Busch 20 years ago.  Auggie’s (August Busch III) wife loved to travel so Auggie bought a cruise ship line at her bequest.  That lasted about 1 year and they sold it – a total flop; just because they sell beer on a cruise ship doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to buy the cruise ship.  Please someone tell me the bow of this ship is not going under too.  (PC correctness - a hubby could do the same to the CEO wife)

RW, if you've been holding back with some kind of grand opening event or a surprise event please let us know when we can buy some beer and celebrate some fantastic exchanges.  So far I see just dogs with fleas.


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## islander222 (Aug 2, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> I did an evaluation on one resort yesterday.  This week doesn't show up as a Provisional listing. So, I'm assuming these are actual deposited weeks from people who are taking a less risky route.



I think Trish is correct.  I requested point values for my (summer 2008)  Royal Mayan and Royal Islander weeks.   Neither one is listed as provisional.


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## bigeyes1 (Aug 2, 2007)

Unfortunately, I'm wrong.  

I asked RW about the Provisional Listings. They said if you check the box that says, "I have this week reserved and would consider depositing if a suitable exchange can be found on RedWeek.com"   prior to requesting a valuation on your week, it will show up as a Provisional Listing. If you didn't check the box, it won't show up.  

I wasn't sure if I had checked that box or not when I submitted my first request on the CAPC week.  Since RW had no way of knowing if I did or not, either,  I had to re-request a valuation and made sure to check the box.  That was when I noticed my week showed up as a PL.


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## ouaifer (Aug 2, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> Unfortunately, I'm wrong.
> 
> I asked RW about the Provisional Listings. They said if you check the box that says, "I have this week reserved and would consider depositing if a suitable exchange can be found on RedWeek.com"   prior to requesting a valuation on your week, it will show up as a Provisional Listing. If you didn't check the box, it won't show up.
> 
> I wasn't sure if I had checked that box or not when I submitted my first request on the CAPC week.  Since RW had no way of knowing if I did or not, either,  I had to re-request a valuation and made sure to check the box.  That was when I noticed my week showed up as a PL.




The valuation is only good for a week or so, and then you have to accept it or let it expire.  Which means the provisional listing also expires.  Then, you have to go and get another valuation until the week you actually want to exchange into appears.  This is quite tedious.  

Although, I think we all like the concept of finding something before depositing, it somehow seems like a waste of time to keep jumping through these hoops.  It would be nice if we could put in the exchange request for a specific amount of time (greater than a week)...and allow the valuation to be valid for a longer time interval.  They should have some sort of formula that would decrease the exchange point value based on the time remaining until the reservation is due...and make that public.


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## bruwery (Aug 2, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I’m going to take a wild guess here and state the RW is in a lot of trouble.  I have 2 years and 10 months to find something but I don’t see RW stepping up with some cash to keep the ship afloat for that period of time.
> 
> I must say that I’m very disappointed in RW and almost 2 months into this new venture the stench of a rotting corps is beginning to become nauseating.



Very descriptive!!

I'm not sure that I'm ready to declare the venture dead yet, but I certainly agree with you - it looks bleak.  I don't have a right to complain, however, due to the fact that I haven't deposited my own 3BR week yet.  (I think I will deposit it - as soon as I get off my keister, pay my 2008 MF, and reserve my week.)

I'm not looking to trade up; rather, I kind of want to trade down and maybe get a couple weeks in 1BR's.  My concern is that a tremendous amount of the available exchange weeks are for 2007 usage.  That does me no good.  I really need weeks for the second half of 2008.

So, the question rolling around in this waste of space known as my head:  Will this system survive long enough for me to see a decent inventory of weeks for the second half of 2008?  I'm going to chance it...


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## thinze3 (Aug 2, 2007)

*My RedWeek deposit ...*

My RedWeek deposit took about two weeks to post as available on their website. That was about six weeks ago.

They offered me 1800 points and they listed it for 1800 points. It is still available today.

I too am getting worried as the list of available units is getting smaller, not larger. People must be "trading up" and paying the difference. Redweek told me that the cash would be used to buy additional weeks.

Thought: I wonder what would happen if you saw a week you liked for rent on their website and ask them to rent it and exchange it to you? Hmm?


Anyhow, I hope to see improvement soon as I have points to spend.
We shall see.


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## PerryM (Aug 2, 2007)

*"Family Flop"; it's not a TV reality show - yet...*



bruwery said:


> Very descriptive!!
> 
> I'm not sure that I'm ready to declare the venture dead yet, but I certainly agree with you - it looks bleak.  I don't have a right to complain, however, due to the fact that I haven't deposited my own 3BR week yet.  (I think I will deposit it - as soon as I get off my keister, pay my 2008 MF, and reserve my week.)
> 
> ...




I used to do contract programming in St. Louis 25+ years ago and worked with 200 of the largest, privately held companies in St Louis.  Over the years I watched many of them roll out new companies or ventures.  You could easily spot the ones that would succeed – they were well thought out and had big bucks behind them at roll out.  Many of these products/companies are still here 25+ years later.

I could also spot the ones doomed for the scrap heap.  These were typically “Bright ideas” that the current movers and shakers of the family did not support but because it was a family run business they put on half a smile but there was no real desire to make it succeed – these flopped within months.

One of the ways to spot one of these “Family Flops” was the total lack of funds to make it a success within the first month or two.  That’s what I’m starting to see here.  I have no choice but to hold my RW Points and hope to find something to use them on later.

I can’t recommend anyone else give the benefit of the doubt to a “Family Flop” so I recommend that folks do NOT deposit any more units until something happens – I don’t know what that will be but it will be either 1) Declare bankruptcy of RW or 2) a family elder takes charge and decides this should succeed.

This is truly turning out to be a fiasco of such a great idea.  Maybe they can sell their story to a reality TV producer and start a new show "Family Flop".


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## rcnet (Aug 2, 2007)

*Need more advertising*

I think the system is mechanically sound.  

They've said 2nd time offers are never as good as your 1st offer.  I'm sure they keep track of any previous offers.  Their goal is to get you off the fence and into their deposit pool.  The more time you spend with "maybe", "requests", and "not-quite-certain-let-me-think-about-it-some-more" is just wasted time that they, you, and a potential exchanger loses.  If they *insult* you with their offer, then by all means, walk away, and find an alternative.

I really think the MAJOR problem, if you can call it that since it's a new system, is that NOBODY, except hard-core timesharers, really knows about it.  I think their advertising is non-existant to this point.  Nobody really knows this service exists.  On top of that, it doesn't help that the resorts probably prefer dealing with the BIG BOYS, instead of those pesky independents.  Unfortunately, advertising is a major battle, especially if the resorts want to make RW's life difficult.

If anything, maybe this will be a grassroots WAKEUP call for resorts, or their HOA, to realize the days of dealing with their one pimp, errrr...., exchange company is over with and that timesharers are demanding more choice.

As I've said in previous posts, I've bought into the concept, and believe that I can eventually get an equal exchange that will make me happy.  And that's all I ever really wanted with timesharing anyway.  To have the freedom to exchange quickly, easy, painlessly, if I so desire.


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## bigeyes1 (Aug 2, 2007)

bruwery said:


> Very descriptive!!
> 
> I'm not sure that I'm ready to declare the venture dead yet, but I certainly agree with you - it looks bleak.  I don't have a right to complain, however, due to the fact that I haven't deposited my own 3BR week yet.  (I think I will deposit it - as soon as I get off my keister, pay my 2008 MF, and reserve my week.)
> 
> ...



I think once word gets out, RW will be a wonderful source for exchanging.  Yes, word of mouth works well, but advertising works best.  

I'm not ready to give up on RW, yet, either.  Heck, I just deposited my week today, so I really don't have much choice except to wait it out and see.  So, like bruwery, I am also waiting for some deposits. 

We'll just have to wait and see.  Hopefully, it will be worth the wait.


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## AnnaO (Aug 3, 2007)

Steve said:


> Actually, I think that this is exactly what the provisional exchange weeks are.  What do I base this on?
> 
> A couple of weeks ago, I requested free appraisals on three resorts.  One of them is a very high end, small resort with only 15 units.  Most owners use their weeks there, and none of the exchange companies get many deposits.  Another one was a Four Seasons Aviara week that I just purchased.
> 
> ...



I repeated your experiment with my two timeshares. When the first one showed up on the provisional list, I checked that my second one is not listed and submitted it for eveluation. As soon as I got a message to view my offer, I checked again. It was there, listed as provisional.

Anna


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## Elan (Aug 3, 2007)

rcnet said:


> They've said 2nd time offers are never as good as your 1st offer.  I'm sure they keep track of any previous offers.  Their goal is to get you off the fence and into their deposit pool.  The more time you spend with "maybe", "requests", and "not-quite-certain-let-me-think-about-it-some-more" is just wasted time that they, you, and a potential exchanger loses.



  That's particularly asinine, if accurate.  Potential depositors get penalized while RW tries to figure out their business model.  Nice.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 3, 2007)

All start ups need to get over the hump of their business where customers dont' trust them yet.  It's the nature of the beast.

In order for people to want to use a new service over something they've used in the past, it has to be really compelling.  A no brainer.  It has to have tremendous value relative to the incumbent service provider or the incumbent usually wins out from inertia if nothing else.

In RW's case, what is that?  I think they are betting the ranch on their point system providing more transparency in terms of what is available and a fairer trade system by allowing differential values for trades through points.  That is pretty much the value proposition of their service.

The problem is that they are spending so much time on providing valuations on weeks that they aren't spending enough time matching requests with availability.  I believe they built a technology and thought that exchanges would just spontaneously start happening.

Perhaps they should just provide a very simply formula for assigning point values at this time and assign all available hands at creating the exchange rings I mention above.  If they don't, then exchanges won't happen since there is no impetus to break the logjam.

Advertising is not the answer yet.  There is sufficient interest at this time to enable exchanges.  If they advertise now, they will simply increase the number of provisional deposits and fence sitters which will serve to increase the lack of confidence in the system.  They need to take action to match exchangers.  And, unless they have built a technology to do it automatically, that takes people.

I agree with Perry and Elan that one of the biggest issues is that RW hasn't apparantly invested enough yet into the system.  They need to hire people to match exchange requests with provisional deposits, purchase some inventory or get free HOA or developer deposits and provide some type of guaruantee on the deposits such as 80% return to cash if a person can't find a suitable exchange.  

When a company is really confident about its business model, they invest the money to do what is required.  When they aren't confident, they drag their feet. 

Right now, RW is dragging their feet, so early adopter customers should be concerned.  Perry has figured it out.  At this point in time, nobody should make a full deposit until RW does work to find you an exchange.  Anything more than a provisional deposit is really taking an undue risk of your maintenance fee.  

It's still early.  But, the clock is ticking....


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## PerryM (Aug 3, 2007)

*Trust me….*

RW asked me to trust them that they would take my 2 super ski weeks and I would have something of equal worth at some point.  This was an implied plea for “Trust me…”  At the time there was little inventory to choose from.

I did, I did my part – all the bellyaching I’ve done over the years about exchanges was nullified with my trust in RW’s new exchange system; I put my money where my mouth was.

I just went into RedWeek’s Forum section and see that the “Official RedWeek news and announcements” hasn’t been updated since mid June – this is August.  Not a peep, not a whisper, not a plea to explain why they can’t seem to get their new venture off the ground.

Enough time has passed for RW to have started major advertising to attract the high quality weeks (the dogs need no advertising budget), the slick web site where you can put in on-going searches and be instantly matched at 2 AM while you sleep, and RW should have spent a Million Dollars buying the high quality reservations that exist in their own web site-it's called priming the pump.  None of this has occurred.  There has been NO sign of ANY commitment from RW.

When I buy something I normally exchange money for a good or service.  Usually I know up front what’s for sale and can determine if my dollars are worth the asking price – if my money is worth at least the asking price I might buy.  The point is I have the ability to judge this BEFORE I buy.

In the case of RW, they implied that the units we submitted and got an appraisal for would allow us an opportunity later to get something of equal value.  That could be a similar vacation at a different resort or multiple vacations with less desirable units but more time there.

Sadly RW has shown no intention of doing anything but say “Trust me”.  RW, I no longer take you at your word and state I don’t trust you to be honest with us.

I hereby ask you to exchange my 2,480 RW Points with something equivalent - $2,480 (US Dollars).  You indicate that RW Points and US dollars are interchangeable and such I ask for the US dollars instead of the exchanges which I no longer believe you have any intention of supplying.  You have shown only a simple-minded solution of “Provisional Deposit” that only Alice in Wonderland would believe.

You have no way to do this on your web site.

So, RW, will your exchange my 2,480 RW Points for $2,480?   I suspect you will not; you will remain silent and pull the covers over your head and hope all of this turns out to be a nightmare that you will wake up from.

Trust me - this is real.


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 3, 2007)

Perry,

You have turned from Pollyanna to Gloom and Doom on RW.  The fact of the matter is that you jumped before looking more carefully.

Things really haven't changed much.  I think it is too early to dump them.  Give them a couple more months to see what they will do.

But, don't deposit anymore until they prove that they can deliver the value to you.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 3, 2007)

We picked up some of the free visitors brochures at the airport in Lihu'e yesterday.  Noticed that Redweek now has full page ads in some of the guides.


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## PerryM (Aug 3, 2007)

*Kids; call Mom and Dad - quick*



BocaBum99 said:


> Perry,
> 
> You have turned from Pollyanna to Gloom and Doom on RW.  The fact of the matter is that you jumped before looking more carefully.
> 
> ...




I always give folks/companies the benefit of the doubt - it's a character flaw that I'm inflicted with.  (I do occasionally get taken but I feel I go out of my way to assume folks do try to benefit their fellow man (woman) and thus I hope they succeed and make a tidy profit)

I don't believe that RW is doing anything illegal, immoral, or unethical - I now believe that they are in way over their heads and thus I can't recommend RW to anyone, at least on this project.

I've made a lot of money from selling timeshare thru RW and a nice profit from rentals - thanks RW.  This is why I immediately deposited 2 timeshares that I could easy rent for the same amount of money (have done this for years) - I not only gave them the benefit of the doubt I forgave $2,480 of real money and instead turned those 2 units to RW - I now have doubts that I can salvage $2,480 worth of timeshare exchanges.

I still believe what we are witnessing a case of Mom and Dad vacationing in Europe and the kids hatched this plan to impress them.  Kids, call the folks and fess up what you've done.  We will hang in there until this is fixed (we don't have a choice).


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 3, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I still believe what we are witnessing a case of Mom and Dad vacationing in Europe and the kids hatched this plan to impress them.  Kids, call the folks and fess up what you've done.  We will hang in there until this is fixed (we don't have a choice).



Perry,

I believe that RW has always been overrated as a business, but very useful as a rental site.  I felt that way about Classmates.com as well after trying 3 times to find something useful on the site and never doing one thing worthwhile.  The degree that any company is overrated is a tribute to their marketing and PR skills.  That is actually a compliment.  You can make a ton of money creating mindshare around a concept without it actually working and then selling it to someone who can.  You start something with a great idea and let someone else do the hard work of executing.  Maybe RW's goal is to have a big company buy them out.  Who knows?

I have always liked the RW site.  I think it is very well designed.  I just haven't been excited about the RW business model.  I once estimated their revenue based on the total listing volume they had and that revenue was very small.  Barely enough to sustain a fulltime team of only a few people.
There are some very small brokerage and rental companies whose revenue vastly exceeds theirs and are relatively small and unknown.

The big problem that RW has had in terms of their business model is that they make their listers a ton of money and they make very little.  If you personally are renting timeshares for over $2000 each and paying redweek only $20, they are capturing very little for the value they are delivering to you.

I can see a couple different ways that they can move to higher margin services.  One way they are trying.  But, they are acting like a listing company who wants their website to do all of their work for them.  That won't cut it until they reach some type of critical mass. 

We'll see what other ideas they come up with to make their service work.  They need to continually innovate or die.  Let's see what they are made of.


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## Phill12 (Aug 3, 2007)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> We picked up some of the free visitors brochures at the airport in Lihu'e yesterday.  Noticed that Redweek now has full page ads in some of the guides.




 Are the ads for Redweek exchange or Hawaii trades available on their site?

 Last time I looked they have no Hawaii timeshares and I would think when and if they do it will not be the better resorts! If a good unit does make it to the exchange you can bet it will involve a small number of other members!

 Seems right now they have all these Hawaii in one hand waving and showing what you might get if you make deposit into the Redweek system! The other hand empty because they have none of these resorts but just promise that if you get what I want I will give you my Hawaii unit!  

 I would think most these Hawaii owners are looking to see what pops up and then they will rent or trade their unit with their regular trading system!:rofl: 

 Its costing them nothing to dangle their resort out there and see what Redweek comes up with!

 Sorry but I'm still a fence rider and know my unit won't get the points I was told three weeks ago!There are about seven units listed from my resort and none state what building they are,just two bedroom!  


 I asked about my second unit because as most resorts there is big difference in buildings and was told they have no way to keep them listed different. So its a two bedroom you get but may be trading a top unit for a lesser unit. Anyone dealing in timeshares knows there is more to units than its a two bedroom or one bedroom,is it ocean view and other looks at parking lot and garbage cans!


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## BocaBum99 (Aug 3, 2007)

accidental double post


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Aug 5, 2007)

SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> Are the ads for Redweek exchange or Hawaii trades available on their site?



The ads are just generic ads - they mention Redweek as a resource for buying, selling, renting, and exchanging.


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## Phill12 (Aug 18, 2007)

SOFTBALLDAD3 said:


> Are the ads for Redweek exchange service or Hawaii trades available on the Redweek site?
> 
> Last time I looked they have no Hawaii timeshares and I would think when and if they do it will not be the better resorts or locations!
> 
> ...


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## bigeyes1 (Aug 18, 2007)

If I remember correctly, in RW's latest newsletter, they said something about early depositers having higher priority over the later ones.    

I was told they are "currently working on a feature where you can create a "wish list" of resorts you are hoping to exchange into" and they'll let the early depositers know before the later ones, if something opens up.  Something like First come, first serve.  

Anyway, I've already deposited my week and it has already been taken.  I found an exchange I like, but DH doesn't want to go there.  So, I'm waiting on something else to turn up.  Since I'm looking for a 2009 exchange, I still have time (hopefully).  

Only time will tell.


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## bigeyes1 (Aug 18, 2007)

Oh, I should also add there may not be a lot of deposits for United States, but there's a lot of weeks available Internationally.  Take a look at Europe, Australia, and Spain. Whew! 

If only we could afford to go to Australia, I would grab one of those weeks in a heartbeat.


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## Phill12 (Aug 18, 2007)

bigeyes1 said:


> If I remember correctly, in RW's latest newsletter, they said something about early depositers having higher priority over the later ones.
> 
> I was told they are "currently working on a feature where you can create a "wish list" of resorts you are hoping to exchange into" and they'll let the early depositers know before the later ones, if something opens up.  Something like First come, first serve.
> 
> ...




 That would be the fair way to deal with it by Redweek! I have doubts they would follow through with this idea!

 If they get top resort they need to give it to another top resort owner on the Provisional list so they can have that unit. This seems only way to make this ring that was talked about work!

 All these Provisional units are doing nothing but giving some people hope of trading into a top resort(trading up) so they make their deposits thinking this will get them their trade!

 Unless Redweek gets this circle/ring moving which requires getting these Provisional units off the fence and into the Redweek system this exchange will just fade away!

 I had hopes for it to work when it first started and almost made a deposit. After thinking about it few weeks and watching I decided to deal with II for next years vacation. 

 It just seems the rules keep changing and it is hard to play a game that the rules keep changing during the game!

 I said at the start that I was afraid RW exchange might become a exchange of low-end resorts with owners of these units seeing away to trade up,something they couldn't do with their trading company.

 Top resort owners in most cases want fair exchange and if they can not get it they will not stay! Not to many owners want to trade down or they wouldn't have spent the money to buy a top resort.

 I can not believe the units they have available for under 800 points and this was my point of low-end resorts!

 Couple months ago I had couple people jump me about this statement but I have not changed my opinion from what I'm seeing!


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## PerryM (Aug 18, 2007)

*RedWeek is Stuck On Stupid...*

Another week has come and gone and the US section is just 4 small pages long - same a 4 - 6 weeks ago. No Marriotts, no Westins, just second tier timeshares.

No new programs, no advertising, no new features, hell no new promises.

RedWeek's Exchange system is just Stuck On Stupid and can't seem to get going.  What will it take RW to get unstuck - at this point a brain transplant is something the owner of RedWeek should be thinking of.


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## e.bram (Aug 19, 2007)

RW's provisional deposits are like RCI's and II's TS catalog. To try to entice you to deposit your week for what you might get in exchange. At least with II you can look first, before you make the exchange.


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