# Hyatt Coconut Plantation [is hard to access on a scooter]



## icydog (May 15, 2017)

I paid II $1536 for a week's rental here at the Hyatt Residence Club in Bonita Springs, FL.  

I went to a sales presentation this morning and actually bought points because I thought I loved the Hyatt brand. 

Fast forward one hour 

I'm in a mobility scooter.  I went to the clubhouse onsite for lunch with visiting friends and the couple that travels with me to my many timeshares. My friend opened the door for me and then left to meet his wife inside. I realized too late that I had to use the bathroom.  I looked for the sliding door or the pedestal to electronically open the door and I couldn't find any.  So I tried the doors to the side.  Same thing.  No egress.  So started asking if anyone could help me.  Nobody heard me so I started hollering.  The bartender finally heard me and let me out. Can you imagine how humiliated I felt? 

Then I realized that I could not get into any of the pools, the restaurants or the bathrooms. 
There is NOT one handicapped enabled door here.  

My traveling companions had gone to talk to their friends and here I am in an electric scooter and none of the doors in or out can be opened electronically... which means I'm trapped! 

I told the front desk clerk what was going on and she had the presence of mind to call the GM.  His name is Ray and this was his response.  He said, "their clubhouse was compliant with ADA rules and that the door issue had never bothered other disabled guests" I said they must have been traveling with an aid because I couldn't enter or egress the building, the pool, or the restaurant.  

He said he would talk to his engineering staff about it.  

I thought about this state of affairs, I looked up compliant doors on the Justice Dept's website and from what I read the building and the facilities are not ADA compliant.  I was so angry, upset and humiliated..

I called the GM and asked for my money back. I also asked for my resort fees to be returned to me. He said he'd try, but I don't think I'll get the II money back, but he did take off $25 a day in resort fees.  

I called and asked the sales manager to rescind my contract. I was told to send in a rescission letter to the resort even though I only signed the contract a few hours earlier. 

The end!


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## auntjudy (May 15, 2017)

that is disgusting.  Hyatt company should know better.  Can you sue them?? or at least
file a complaint with the ADA.


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## tschwa2 (May 15, 2017)

_*Automatic and Power-Assisted Doors and Gates [§404.3]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
Doors are not required to be automated, but must comply when provided. The Standards apply industry Standards developed under protocols of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and published by the Builders Hardware Manufacturers Association (BHMA). The ANSI/BHMA Standards address operating characteristics, including opening speed, safety features, sensors and activation devices, and labeling, among others. Doors are classified by their type or level of automation.



Under Common Questions:


Is automation of doors required?_

Automation of doors is not required by the Standards, but it is highly recommended for entrance doors where the opening force is significant. A maximum opening force is not specified for exterior hinged doors because of the closing force typically necessary for ensuring positive latch against wind loading, air pressure, and other conditions. This often results in opening forces well above the 5 lbf maximum. Difficulty opening exterior swing doors is a common complaint. Automation offers the best solution. Otherwise, closers should be set with the minimum force practicable.


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## pedro47 (May 15, 2017)

Rescind in writing to cancel your contract ASAP and explain in detail why and what happen.


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## silentg (May 16, 2017)

I am not disabled, but physically challenged . I have a hard time opening doors. If I see a button to open a door I always use it. Especially when you are checking in, hands are full and door is heavy. Also this can be to the resort's benefit because if the doors are ADA approved it helps. Guests like me enjoy the little things!
Silentg


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## theo (May 16, 2017)

Voluntarily deleted my intended post to avert any misinterpretation or offense, but I am sorry for the OP's troubles and unfortunate experience.

I do however strongly recommend that OP follow the "rescind in writing" input provided to her on site, despite still being physically on the premises.
Rescission conversation alone regarding a contract already executed is both legally meaningless *and* an opportunity for avoidable misunderstandings.


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## icydog (May 16, 2017)

I appreciate that tschwa2 researched the door situation but not having ANY doors accessible by some means seems counterintuitive doesn't it? 

Pedro47 I'm going to type the rescission letter today. I'll Copy it and mail it out certified mail to the Hyatt Windward Point in Key West today. 

Silenttg, I commiserate completely.  This is the only place at which I've stayed that didn't have some mechanism to open the doors. 

Theo, thanks for the great legal advice. I thought they could just rip up the paperwork since it was only a couple of hours since I'd signed the documents. I would have believed the sales manager if he told me he'd done that. I now see I was wrong!


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## rapmarks (May 16, 2017)

Icy dog, my sympathy,  we live quite close by, you probably drove past my subdivision.  I just flew north on Saturday 


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## tschwa2 (May 16, 2017)

I also sympathize and as someone who travels fairly frequently with a disabled family member with progressively deteriorating mobility, I have learned that ADA compliant doesn't mean one size fits all accessibility for everyone.   I think you are lucky to have never run into a similar situation before. I always call to inquire about various requirements we have (some within and some outside of ADA requirements) so we will be prepared and/or can choose alternate accommodations.


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## icydog (May 16, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> Icy dog, my sympathy,  we live quite close by, you probably drove past my subdivision.  I just flew north on Saturday
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



It's such a shame because it's a gorgeous resort.  Now the GM has staff at every door.  So he's trying.  The front desk manager followed my scooter back to the elevators, rode with me up to my floor, and opened my door.  That was very nice. 



tschwa2 said:


> I also sympathize and as someone who travels fairly frequently with a disabled family member with progressively deteriorating mobility, I have learned that ADA compliant doesn't mean one size fits all accessibility for everyone.   I think you are lucky to have never run into a similar situation before. I always call to inquire about various requirements we have (some within and some outside of ADA requirements) so we will be prepared and/or can choose alternate accommodations.



I'm very, very new to this.  I was crying yesterday, as were my traveling companions (a married couple).  They felt guilty that they left me alone while they chatted with old friends. Who knew that I could be trapped outside like that? Who would have thought that?

I'm terribly sorry you find yourself in similar situations pretty often. I'm sure it's humiliating for your family member. I wish you only good experiences in your future travels


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## lizap (May 17, 2017)

We used to travel with my mom
who had difficulty walking and used a scooter at times.  Hotels, TSs, and other businesses unfortunately do not always think about accessibility and even just making things easier for the handicapped. I agree the suggestion of calling ahead is a good  idea.


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## theo (May 17, 2017)

icydog said:


> I'm going to type the rescission letter today. I'll Copy it and *mail it out certified mail to the Hyatt Windward Point in Key West* today.



Is that what your Hyatt-provided rescission materials clearly instruct? I'm otherwise puzzled why you would mail your rescission correspondence to Hyatt Windward Pointe in Key West if your contract execution was at Hyatt Coconut Plantation (in Bonita Springs) as your initial post in this thread indicates.


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## dagger1 (May 17, 2017)

icydog said:


> I paid II $1536 for a week's rental here at the Hyatt Residence Club in Bonita Springs, FL.
> I went to a sales presentation this morning and actually bought points ...
> I'm in a mobility scooter.
> Then I realized that *I could not get into any of the pools*, the restaurants or the bathrooms.
> ...



All hotels are required by law to have "pool lifts" to aid the handicapped.  We have yet to be at a hotel or resort that did not have at least one (although many times they don't work.) It's amazing that a Hyatt did not have one!  I am always with my wife to help open doors, etc.  And I have entered women's bathroom's on several occasions when my wife needs assistance (and have always been treated very nicely by the women in the BR.)  I am really sorry this happened to you.  I  ALWAYS call a week or so in advance of check in to confirm our ADA Accessible reservation (although that didn't help at National Harbor last week...)


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## icydog (May 17, 2017)

theo said:


> Is that what your Hyatt-provided rescission materials clearly instruct? I'm otherwise puzzled why you would mail your rescission correspondence to Hyatt Windward Pointe in Key West if your contract execution was at Hyatt Coconut Plantation (in Bonita Springs) as your initial post in this thread indicates.


I was surprised by that too but the rescission instructions state to send a letter of cancellation to Hyatt Windward (the actual location of the resort for which I signed the contact). I said In the letter that I wanted to rescind my contract, the contract number was listed in my letter, due to the lack of handicapped accessibility here at Bonita Springs where I'm staying.  I said I will never, ever, stay in a Hyatt again because of this. 
Should I have added something else beside that (of course I included my information) to make it legal?


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## icydog (May 17, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> All hotels are required by law to have "pool lifts" to aid the handicapped.  We have yet to be at a hotel or resort that did not have at least one (although many times they don't work.) It's amazing that a Hyatt did not have one!  I am always with my wife to help open doors, etc.  And I have entered women's bathroom's on several occasions when my wife needs assistance (and have always been treated very nicely by the women in the BR.)  I am really sorry this happened to you.  I  ALWAYS call a week or so in advance of check in to confirm our ADA Accessible reservation (although that didn't help at National Harbor last week...)



It's so weird because there are pool lifts and adequate space for wheelchairs through the bathroom doors.  It's just every door, into, or out of, the resort can not be opened or accessed by someone in a mobility scooter. So even if I wanted to use the chair lift in the pool, which I didn't, I couldn't get to the pool at all.  All the doors needed someone to open them for me. Since I was alone I was stuck outside (or inside as the case may be)


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## rapmarks (May 17, 2017)

My brother in law has had MS for about forty years, and been in a scooter for maybe thirty.  What is Almost worse is people deciding he is mentally disabled too, asking someone else what he wants to order in a restaurant, etc


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## icydog (May 17, 2017)

rapmarks said:


> My brother in law has had MS for about forty years, and been in a scooter for maybe thirty.  What is Almost worse is people deciding he is mentally disabled too, asking someone else what he wants to order in a restaurant, etc
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yep, I know.  When I'm on my scooter suddenly people assume I'm invisible, and or stupid,  and talk over me. 

But your situation is MUCH worse and my heart goes out to you and your brother in law.


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## dagger1 (May 17, 2017)

icydog said:


> It's so weird because there are pool lifts and adequate space for wheelchairs through the bathroom doors.  It's just every door, into, or out of, the resort can not be opened or accessed by someone in a mobility scooter. So even if I wanted to use the chair lift in the pool, which I didn't, I couldn't get to the pool at all.  All the doors needed someone to open them for me. Since I was alone I was stuck outside (or inside as the case may be)


Yes, I see!!  We never have that issue because I am always with my wife.  Now that I think about it, about the opening of doors, not one of the resorts/hotels  we have stayed at would have met that criteria.  None had remote actuated doors, (front hotel entrance doors excepted), including the room door itself.  How do you get in or out of your room?  Believe me, I know the challenges you face!!


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## DeniseM (May 17, 2017)

I can see how this is a big problem - how do you manage to get around by yourself in your home town?


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## dagger1 (May 17, 2017)

This situation is the main reason my wife has never wanted a scooter.  In her wheelchair, if she is alone, she can get right up next to doors and manage, with effort, to open them.  Scooters present their own set of problems, but they also provide a lot of benefits...  It would be really nice if every door in every building was automatic, but no one will spend that kind of money.  I'm glad the Hyatt started physically opening doors for you, that was very nice of them.


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## theo (May 17, 2017)

icydog said:


> ...the rescission instructions state to send a letter of cancellation to Hyatt Windward (the actual location of the resort for which I signed the contact). I said In the letter that I wanted to rescind my contract, the contract number was listed in my letter, due to the lack of handicapped accessibility here at Bonita Springs where I'm staying.  I said I will never, ever, stay in a Hyatt again because of this.
> Should I have added something else beside that (of course I included my information) to make it legal?



All anyone needs to say in any (timely submitted) letter of rescission is "I rescind" (clearly identifying the contract that you are cancelling, of course).
You need not offer *any* reason or explanation whatsoever in order to cancel; rescission is a indisputable right provided by applicable state law.
You need only follow the rescission instructions to the letter,  mail your rescission correspondence to the address indicated, postmarked within the applicable time period identified by the individual state's law (for Florida, that's within 10 days --- among the longest rescission periods in U.S. states, along with Tennessee).

I understand that you were / are at Hyatt Coconut Plantation in Bonita Springs and that is where you have encountered these unfortunate problems.
However, I am puzzled why you would buy (apparently sight unseen) into an entirely *different* property located several hours and two hundred miles away.
Had you perhaps been to Hyatt Windward Pointe in Key West previously and *already* knew that property? The two places are certainly not much alike


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## taffy19 (May 17, 2017)

Don't you have to date it too?


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## dagger1 (May 17, 2017)

Terrible situation!!


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## pedro47 (May 17, 2017)

iconnections said:


> Don't you have to date it too?


The date should be the same date he signed the contract.


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## theo (May 17, 2017)

iconnections said:


> Don't you have to date it too?



Certainly no harm in doing so, but in the final analysis the only date that really matters in the eyes of the law is the *postmark* date of the rescission.

This makes good sense really, since anyone could type any date they choose on a rescission letter, accurate or not. Actual *postmark* date rules all.


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## taffy19 (May 17, 2017)

You are right because a rescission notice is not a contract.  The postmark date is important and I found out recently that you can do this in any post office in the USA if the post office is closed but have to send something with proof of mailing it before  a certain date.

I had never used one of these machines where you can do all this yourself and was watching a lady sending a package late at night when I was posting a letter at our post office.  She also had to send a letter with a receipt that it was mailed so she had proof of the date stamp and offered to show me.  I didn't know that these machines let you do this all so learned something new.  In our area, we can drive to a post office that still has a pick-up late at night but this is much more convenient.

There may still be people who are not familiar with what these machines can do either so we may want to mention this if someone is in a bind and needs to get the date stamp no later than that particular day.  There was a post here recently where this was mentioned that they were too late by only one single day.


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## icydog (May 19, 2017)

I sent in my rescission letter on Tuesday by certified mail, signature required, with a return receipt requested.  

I was getting nowhere with the GM about the disability thing.  

I spoke with an II representative who added an AC to my account.  

Today I started calling everyone at the II Leisure Group.  I finally spoke to a lady at II in Miami who listened to me and got me two extra nights stay here.. that'll be terrific because our plane leaves on Monday and we were going to our respectively motel rooms for those two nights. 

This way my friends can help me in and out the non-electronic doors here.  Tomorrow and Sunday will be my second and third day outside my room.  My friends had business to do in the area and could not accompany me to the pools which meant I didn't go.  

The GM told me he had people at the doors to the clubhouse to let me in anytime I wanted to go in (or out) but I didn't know that.  I also got $100 towards a meal at the hotel.  

I like the GM here at Coconut Planatation but this vacation was ruined by Hyatt's lack of regard for my disability or my safety.  Only after I pursued a solution through II did anything happen here at the resort.  

I'm glad I rescinded.  I will never return to another Hyatt.  Marriott and Disney Vacation Club are fine with me.  I have NEVER encountered a problem like this with either vacation club.


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## tschwa2 (May 19, 2017)

The resort is ADA compliant.  That doesn't mean it will be accessible to everyone.  It doesn't mean others aren't sympathetic to your plight but I don't think you are owed additional compensation because you did not want to ask for help opening doors.  When we stayed at a Marriott Ocean Watch in an accessible room there was a 6 inch lip on the balconies and there was no where to get a wheel chair out onto the balcony.  She cried because sitting on the balcony and looking at the ocean is one of the few things she could do.  They tried to build a makeshift ramp which they said they have used in the past but it was not safe.  There was no way to get her outside without physically carrying her in and out.  I didn't feel like compensation was owed.  It is what it is and the resort wasn't out of compliance. We won't return with her because of this but I wouldn't disparage the company as inconsiderate to the disabled.   I would imagine you have a phone and could call the front office and someone would open the doors for you.  You may not have known it at first but you do now.  

You mentioned that you just started using the scooter.  I think you may find the same problem at more resorts than you think.


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## icydog (May 20, 2017)

I have my own opinions as to how this was handled. It was sorted out to my satisfaction and I believe I was entitled to some compensation.


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## DeniseM (May 20, 2017)

icydog - How will you handle this in your home town?  I was thinking about our region, and only the very large chain stores have automated doors.  The majority of doors have to be opened by hand.


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## dagger1 (May 20, 2017)

My wife has been in a wheelchair (full time, she cannot walk at all) for fifteen years.  We have been to numerous hotels/resorts, and I can assure you Hyatt's are ADA compliant.   That does not mean that every door can open automatically, or that we don't run into the occasional obstacle.  I feel for the OP, because it sounds as though this is new for her...


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## dagger1 (May 20, 2017)

icydog said:


> I appreciate that tschwa2 researched the door situation but not having ANY doors accessible by some means seems counterintuitive doesn't it?
> 
> We have been to Ritz Carlton's, Hyatt's, Disney, Westin's, and many other resorts, and not one of them would have been any more "accessible" than the Hyatt you stayed at..  Not one....  Sorry to tell you this...  You will need help getting into some areas, through most doors, and even getting around properties.  We have found all these resorts to be very helpful, just like the Hyatt Coconut Plantation was to you.  We have only complained when the ADA room  (with roll in shower) we always book and confirm prior to arrival has not been available.  This does upset us...


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## icydog (May 20, 2017)

I'm surprised you mentioned Disney.   I think I remember that the main doors into/out of Disney Vacation Club Resorts have been sliding doors.  I could be wrong because I'm new to this.

Denise, I live in NJ and all the stores I visited had sliding glass doors or a large button to push to open the door.  Maybe that's why I was surprised by this Hyatt. 

I have to tell you though, since this was brought to the GM's attention, I have been escorted through doors, had elevators opened for me and had everyone from the pool towel people to the front desk managers check on me. They have made me feel heard and I appreciate that very much.


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## topcop400 (May 20, 2017)

I have MS and I’ve been in a wheelchair since 2002.   OP needs to know a couple of things that have not been mentioned here.  ADA only applies to buildings that were built or sold after a certain year (I think it’s 1992).   Historic buildings are completely exempt—it doesn’t matter when they are sold.  San Francisco, Charleston and other areas have TS properties in historic buildings.  Even Wyndham Southshore has no ADA units and that’s not historic—not by a long shot.  I don’t know how they are compliant.



I need a roll-in shower, and that isn’t always easy to come by (even at Hyatt & Hilton).  A lot of places have just ONE unit with a roll-in shower.    If that’s already taken, I’m out-of-luck.  Even when I call ahead and confirm.  Tubs with grab bars are ADA compliant, so some (like Carlsbad Seapointe) have NONE.  I can only imagine how mad you would have been if you had needed a roll-in shower, couldn’t get one, and had to sponge bath all week.  Staff couldn’t help you with that!


There are a lot of timeshare properties that are not ADA compliant, but what you are describing at this Hyatt property certainly is.


Never count on ADA compliance as a guarantee of convenience, much less comfort.


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## dagger1 (May 20, 2017)

icydog said:


> I'm surprised you mentioned Disney.   I think I remember that the main doors into/out of Disney Vacation Club Resorts have been sliding doors.  I could be wrong because I'm new to this.
> 
> Denise, I live in NJ and all the stores I visited had sliding glass doors or a large button to push to open the door.  Maybe that's why I was surprised by this Hyatt.
> 
> I have to tell you though, since this was brought to the GM's attention, I have been escorted through doors, had elevators opened for me and had everyone from the pool towel people to the front desk managers check on me. They have made me feel heard and I appreciate that





icydog said:


> I'm surprised you mentioned Disney.   I think I remember that the main doors into/out of Disney Vacation Club Resorts have been sliding doors.  I could be wrong because I'm new to this.
> 
> Denise, I live in NJ and all the stores I visited had sliding glass doors or a large button to push to open the door.  Maybe that's why I was surprised by this Hyatt.
> 
> I have to tell you though, since this was brought to the GM's attention, I have been escorted through doors, had elevators opened for me and had everyone from the pool towel people to the front desk managers check on me. They have made me feel heard and I appreciate that very much.



I think I may have been unclear:  many of the resorts and hotels, maybe most, have "automatic" doors entering the lobby.  Those entrance doors are the only "automatic" doors, though.  Then the obstacle course begins.  But all of those hotels are considered "ADA" compliant.


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## dagger1 (May 20, 2017)

topcop400 said:


> I have MS and I’ve been in a wheelchair since 2002.   OP needs to know a couple of things that have not been mentioned here.  ADA only applies to buildings that were built or sold after a certain year (I think it’s 1992).   Historic buildings are completely exempt—it doesn’t matter when they are sold.  San Francisco, Charleston and other areas have TS properties in historic buildings.  Even Wyndham Southshore has no ADA units and that’s not historic—not by a long shot.  I don’t know how they are compliant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I completely agree with this post!!!  Well said!


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## dagger1 (May 20, 2017)

icydog said:


> I'm surprised you mentioned Disney.   I think I remember that the main doors into/out of Disney Vacation Club Resorts have been sliding doors.  I could be wrong because I'm new to this.
> 
> Denise, I live in NJ and all the stores I visited had sliding glass doors or a large button to push to open the door.  Maybe that's why I was surprised by this Hyatt.
> 
> I have to tell you though, since this was brought to the GM's attention, I have been escorted through doors, had elevators opened for me and had everyone from the pool towel people to the front desk managers check on me. They have made me feel heard and I appreciate that very much.


I think it is fantastic that Hyatt took such good care of you after you pointed out your difficulties...


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## dagger1 (May 22, 2017)

auntjudy said:


> that is disgusting.  Hyatt company should know better.  Can you sue them?? or at least
> file a complaint with the ADA.


What is terrible is that her "travel companions" abandoned her.  They should have known better.  Hyatt is completely ADA compliant, the headline of this post is not correct.


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## pedro47 (May 22, 2017)

The majority of all hotels and resorts in the USA meet ADA compliant. In the past there was a check list form completed by the hotel management staff that was submitted to federal government stating that were in compliant.

The major issue for hotels and resorts was the pool lift apparatus .  Because the pool lift apparatus was used maybe and mean maybe once or twice a year. This is a very costly piece of equipment to install and to upkeep.  This is why you are seeing more and more outdoor pools with zero entrance to their pool with railings on the side. Thus, you can roll a wheel chair directly into the pool.


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## dagger1 (May 22, 2017)

pedro47 said:


> The majority of all hotels and resorts in the USA meet ADA compliant. In the past there was a check list form completed by the hotel management staff that was submitted to federal government stating that were in compliant.
> 
> The major issue for hotels and resorts was the pool lift apparatus .  Because the pool lift apparatus was used maybe and mean maybe once or twice a year. This is a very costly piece of equipment to install and to upkeep.  This is why you are seeing more and more outdoor pools with zero entrance to their pool with railings on the side. Thus, you can roll a wheel chair directly into the pool.



We utilize the pool lift at almost every resort we go to.  They require assistance as well, I lift my wife from her wheelchair onto the lift.  And I have never seen anyone else use the lift while we are at the pool, but I am sure the lifts are used (very seldomly.)  I have yet to see a roll in pool.  I'm not sure we would want to put her wheelchair in a pool, especially a salt water pool.  And this won't help a person in a scooter.  It never occurred to me to ask for monetary reimbursement because of my wife's difficulties....  This is just life.  And we are definitely not going to allow her inability to walk to interfere with our travels...  Until I can't walk, that is!!


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## tschwa2 (May 22, 2017)

dagger1 said:


> We utilize the pool lift at almost every resort we go to.  They require assistance as well, I lift my wife from her wheelchair onto the lift.  And I have never seen anyone else use the lift while we are at the pool, but I am sure the lifts are used (very seldomly.)  I have yet to see a roll in pool.  I'm not sure we would want to put her wheelchair in a pool, especially a salt water pool.  And this won't help a person in a scooter.  It never occurred to me to ask for monetary reimbursement because of my wife's difficulties....  This is just life.  And we are definitely not going to allow her inability to walk to interfere with our travels...  Until I can't walk, that is!!



They usually have one of those pvc tube type wheel chairs you can use with the zero entry ramp.


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## dagger1 (May 22, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> They usually have one of those pvc tube type wheel chairs you can use with the zero entry ramp.


Oh, I've seen those at the Y.  I would still have to transfer my wife to the PVC chair, which I am happy to do!!  (She is a helluva woman!!)


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