# Still at the Hilton Club



## buzglyd (May 1, 2015)

My wife and I are enjoying our stay at the Hilton Club NY.

We've got a great room facing Central Park. We have a studio which is huge by NY hotel standards. The owners lounge is great for a light breakfast in the morning and we've met some nice people during the evening reception. 

Watching the GOFs battle for the bagel toaster in the morning is entertainment in itself!

We saw Beautiful. The Carole King Musical last night and it was awesome!


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## amisco (May 1, 2015)

*Arriving tomorrow for annual Theater  Week...*

My wife and I always come to New York for the first week in May to catch the new season of productions on Broadway and Off Broadway....  This year we have six shows booked, the 9/11 Museum, The View and standby for Seth Meyers....  it should be a great week.... save some bagels for me.  LOL


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## 1Kflyerguy (May 1, 2015)

buzglyd said:


> My wife and I are enjoying our stay at the Hilton Club NY.
> 
> We've got a great room facing Central Park. We have a studio which is huge by NY hotel standards. The owners lounge is great for a light breakfast in the morning and we've met some nice people during the evening reception.



Sounds great!!  Nice score if you were able to book with club points!


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## buzglyd (May 1, 2015)

Snatched it through the RCI portal many moons ago. 

Best deal ever.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 2, 2015)

Wonderful place, lovely staff, great location, good rooms. 


You probably already know this, but when you walk out of the Club, turn right, cross over 6th Ave, keep walking straight until you get to 5th Ave, turn right and wow ! That's the real fancy area of 5th Ave. from Harry Winston Jewelers to the Regis Hotel. I'm not enamoured of those things, but it's just plain fun to see .

So, if you fancy a "bauble"...   http://www.harrywinston.com/visit-us or a little George & Amal spying:  http://www.stregisnewyork.com/  LOL.

To offset the above decadence: Here's a near by burger joint:  http://burgerheavenmidtown.com/food...4.r?QueryStringValue=78pLaVx4lJdufliMRsOsPQ==



MOMA is down and to the right off of 5th Ave, 53rd, 11 W. 53rd  You can see Van Gogh's "Starry Night" there as well as Wyeths, etc. It is mobbed on the weekends and Friday nights (free night), so try to avoid those days if possible.

 There's a great little French bistro on the other side, E. 53rd and 5th.  OMG ! Get a cream doughnut if they have them, order a French lemonade with mint, in fact, order everything, but get there early for lunch:

 Simple French food :http://www.lepainquotidien.com/    menu:  http://www.lepainquotidien.com/landing/core-menu/#.VUTZ0JVFBJc
All this within a few-several blocks away.

Oh, I found a decent coin laundromat if interested,  W 50th & 9th. A couple of restaurants close. I put my clothes in my backpack and washed/dried them. 

I am going again, soon.

-


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## Conan (May 2, 2015)

buzglyd said:


> battle for the bagel toaster in the morning....



They've replaced the four-slot toaster with a continuous belt type. No more battles!


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## buzglyd (May 4, 2015)

Conan said:


> They've replaced the four-slot toaster with a continuous belt type. No more battles!



Yeah well some dim-bulb stuck a pastry in it and about smoked the place out.

That got me thinking, I might make a grilled cheese sandwich next time!


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## Jason245 (May 4, 2015)

buzglyd said:


> Yeah well some dim-bulb stuck a pastry in it and about smoked the place out.
> 
> That got me thinking, I might make a grilled cheese sandwich next time!



Whenever anyone asks why MF are so high... just point to that.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 4, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Whenever anyone asks why MF are so high... just point to that.




  I jammed the toaster at the Renaissance Vendomme in Paris.

  Must have been the French toast.  :hysterical:

  -


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## brp (May 5, 2015)

Conan said:


> They've replaced the four-slot toaster with a continuous belt type. No more battles!



We don't eat toast or bread, so I never noticed...but I appreciate that they have two espresso machines 

We're heading back for our second of three NYC trips at the end of the month. We usually do two weekends/long weekends a year. We added a weekend early in the year to catch a Richard Thompson concert at City Winery (great place to visit if you're in New York).

We like May and October/November in general. This time, it's Labor Day weekend with family.

I find that the buy-in is the big cost relative to others, even more than any MF difference. The saving grace, though, is that this has continued to go up since it was sold, so I expect to at least get our money back wen we eventually sell it.

Glad y'all like our place 

Cheers.


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 5, 2015)

brp said:


> We don't eat toast or bread, so I never noticed...but I appreciate that they have two espresso machines
> 
> We're heading back for our second of three NYC trips at the end of the month. We usually do two weekends/long weekends a year. We added a weekend early in the year to catch a Richard Thompson concert at City Winery (great place to visit if you're in New York).
> 
> ...



I will be there Labor Day weekend as well.  Maybe we can meet to say hello.  I'm also going in December for a few days.

There have been some really good deals lately and I'm wondering if Hilton has relaxed their ROFR.


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## Rascalsmom (May 6, 2015)

I've been checking every day for a last- minute exchange over the summer...  You all are making me want it even more!


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## brp (May 6, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I will be there Labor Day weekend as well.  Maybe we can meet to say hello.  I'm also going in December for a few days.
> 
> There have been some really good deals lately and I'm wondering if Hilton has relaxed their ROFR.



Definitely. Always nice to meet other NYC aficionados. I see you also own at Flamingo. We bought one earlier this year, and are almost done with another. We plan to use the points mainly in Hawai'i, but we do have our first Flamingo stay in November for a race, so we can ask questions 


What kind of good deals are you seeing lately? Just curious as we're not in the market for more W. 57th.

Cheers.


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 6, 2015)

brp said:


> Definitely. Always nice to meet other NYC aficionados. I see you also own at Flamingo. We bought one earlier this year, and are almost done with another. We plan to use the points mainly in Hawai'i, but we do have our first Flamingo stay in November for a race, so we can ask questions
> 
> 
> What kind of good deals are you seeing lately? Just curious as we're not in the market for more W. 57th.
> ...



Seth Nock has a 5250 Platinum Studio Plus listed for $22,500 on his website.  I received an email from Judi Kozlowski three or four weeks ago for an identical unit at West 57th for $21,500.  Earlier last year, you could not touch these for much less than $30K without ROFR.  I've also seen a 4800 point 1 Br at Flamingo for $3250.  Two years ago, the lowest I found similar units at Flamingo was for $4000.  Granted, Flamingo doesn't have ROFR, but nonetheless, if you're in the market, it seems like an excellent time to buy resale IMHO.


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## Jason245 (May 7, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> Seth Nock has a 5250 Platinum Studio Plus listed for $22,500 on his website.  I received an email from Judi Kozlowski three or four weeks ago for an identical unit at West 57th for $21,500.  Earlier last year, you could not touch these for much less than $30K without ROFR.  I've also seen a 4800 point 1 Br at Flamingo for $3250.  Two years ago, the lowest I found similar units at Flamingo was for $4000.  Granted, Flamingo doesn't have ROFR, but nonetheless, if you're in the market, it seems like an excellent time to buy resale IMHO.



Out of curiosity, how does the math work for a $22,500 unit to be worth it for the owner?

I don't know what the MF are, but I would imagine they are on the higher cost/point level. 

Decent hotel rooms in NY can be had for ~$300/night ($2,100/week) and studios renting in Manhattan on home away for around the same. 



At the price of $22,500, if MF were zero and you just kept the money in your mattress, you are looking at it taking 10 years before breakeven (or am I missing something).


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 7, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Out of curiosity, how does the math work for a $22,500 unit to be worth it for the owner?
> 
> I don't know what the MF are, but I would imagine they are on the higher cost/point level.
> 
> ...



You're right.  That's probably why prices are dropping without Hilton exercising ROFR as aggressively and keeping them artificially higher.  The accommodations at W. 57th St., however, are very nice.  HGVC rules make it difficult to reserve at this location unless you're an owner.  Sometimes people are motivated by things other then logic, which unfortunately is my situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Conan (May 7, 2015)

Here are my figures for Hilton Club (54th Street).

I paid $6,900 for 11,000 points, resale, in 2012. This is the right-to-use contract that expires in fifteen-or-so years (I forget exactly when). 2015 maintenance including reserve, dues, and tax was $3,081. (HGVC was buying these back recently for more than $20K but I was lazy about getting an offer, and we really like our ownership.)

The 11,000 points is good for about 12 nights a year (depending on weekday vs weekend, and studio vs 1-BR vs 2-BR).

Amortizing the purchase price over 10 years, the cost is about ($700+$3,100)/12 or $320/night.

I looked at the Hilton website for a comparable room at the NY Hilton (same location). The hotel price including breakfast, WIFI, and NYC's 15% room tax is about $500/night. That's for a Studio-sized room and without the special treatment you get from the folks on the 37th floor.


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## Jason245 (May 7, 2015)

Conan said:


> Here are my figures for Hilton Club (54th Street).
> 
> I paid $6,900 for 11,000 points, resale, in 2012. This is the right-to-use contract that expires in fifteen-or-so years (I forget exactly when). 2015 maintenance including reserve, dues, and tax was $3,081. (HGVC was buying these back recently for more than $20K but I was lazy about getting an offer, and we really like our ownership.)
> 
> ...



While not a fantastic run away deal, $7k for 12 nights/year makes a lot more sense then $22k for 7 nights.  In this instance, the RTU might actually be a good thing, since you won't have to worry about divestiture when you are done using it.


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## brp (May 7, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I received an email from Judi Kozlowski three or four weeks ago for an identical unit at West 57th for $21,500.  Earlier last year, you could not touch these for much less than $30K without ROFR.  I've also seen a 4800 point 1 Br at Flamingo for $3250.  Two years ago, the lowest I found similar units at Flamingo was for $4000.  Granted, Flamingo doesn't have ROFR, but nonetheless, if you're in the market, it seems like an excellent time to buy resale IMHO.



We got a resale at W. 57th about 18 months ago for around $30K. Interesting to see it lower now as the property is virtually sold out, and prices have been going up since initial sale. I'd imagine that the conversion of HCNY to Deeded is currently impacting W. 57th pricing, but that should stop at some point, and I expect both to go up again.



Jason245 said:


> Out of curiosity, how does the math work for a $22,500 unit to be worth it for the owner?
> 
> I don't know what the MF are, but I would imagine they are on the higher cost/point level.
> 
> ...



You can get a room for $300, but it won't be at the quality of the HCNY room, and certainly not W. 57th with location and all figured in. brs. brp pays the MFs for our timeshares, so I don't know then offhand, but they're not too bad relative to, say, some of the Hawai'i properties.



Conan said:


> I looked at the Hilton website for a comparable room at the NY Hilton (same location). The hotel price including breakfast, WIFI, and NYC's 15% room tax is about $500/night. That's for a Studio-sized room and without the special treatment you get from the folks on the 37th floor.



You really can't figure in the "room + breakfast" option as that is real breakfast and the offerings at HCNY are very mediocre and not at all "breakfast." Just a bunch of carbs and some hardboiled eggs. W. 57th is marginally better, but not by much. Doesn't qualify as a breakfast addition, I'd say.



Jason245 said:


> In this instance, the RTU might actually be a good thing, since you won't have to worry about divestiture when you are done using it.



I disagree here. Based on the overall trend, I expect to get back at least my $30K for W. 57th when we eventually sell. Thus, I would really only look at the opportunity cost of the money, and not the principal, when calculating the use cost of owning at W. 57th. Even if things sunk substantially and I only got half (very unlikely), I'd only be amortizing $15K over the, say, 20-25 years that I'd be planning to use the property. That's only $750/year or $125-$150/night as we can 5-6 nights with our points. That's on top of the MFs. It's really not that bad in the end. Of course, if we do get it all back, then that amount is $0.

Cheers.


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## Jason245 (May 7, 2015)

brp said:


> We got a resale at W. 57th about 18 months ago for around $30K. Interesting to see it lower now as the property is virtually sold out, and prices have been going up since initial sale. I'd imagine that the conversion of HCNY to Deeded is currently impacting W. 57th pricing, but that should stop at some point, and I expect both to go up again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As long as you are happy with your purchase, Then none of this matters. 

That being said, even by NY standards, valuing a room at W.57th at $1.83 Million might be a little excessive (365/6 nights*30K).

I am not fortunate enough to have an extra $30k sitting around to spend on this type of purchase so it isn't in the relm of possibility for me (instead I will have to trade in when I decide to go to NY if there is a time available).


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## brp (May 7, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> That being said, even by NY standards, valuing a room at W.57th at $1.83 Million might be a little excessive (365/6 nights*30K).



I wholeheartedly agree. Because I'm sure that we'll get all, or most, of it back, though, I don't look at it as a sunk cost as is the case with any kind of sunsetting timeshare (our DVC, for example). It's a zero-interesting loan to Hilton, perhaps 

Cheers.


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 7, 2015)

brp said:


> I wholeheartedly agree. Because I'm sure that we'll get all, or most, of it back, though, I don't look at it as a sunk cost as is the case with any kind of sunsetting timeshare (our DVC, for example). It's a zero-interesting loan to Hilton, perhaps
> 
> Cheers.



I hope you're right, Brp.  At $30K it's still less than half what Hilton charges for an identical unit.  

If we use and enjoy our ownership, then it's a good value.  NYC happens to be my favorite destination, which is why I purchased at W. 57th.  I prefer owning to leasing, while others view it as a perpetual obligation.


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## piyooshj (May 7, 2015)

brp said:


> I disagree here. Based on the overall trend, I expect to get back at least my $30K for W. 57th when we eventually sell. Thus, I would really only look at the opportunity cost of the money, and not the principal, when calculating the use cost of owning at W. 57th. Even if things sunk substantially and I only got half (very unlikely), I'd only be amortizing $15K over the, say, 20-25 years that I'd be planning to use the property. That's only $750/year or $125-$150/night as we can 5-6 nights with our points. That's on top of the MFs. It's really not that bad in the end. Of course, if we do get it all back, then that amount is $0.
> 
> Cheers.



We'll I disagree with the whole math. If I am putting down $30k I expect 10% return on my money which makes it $3k per year + $3k in MF = $6k for 7 nights ($850 per night)? Plus if you stay or not you have to pay this every year. Good protection for Hilton on their income stream not sure if it is a good deal as a buyer. Am I missing anything?


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## piyooshj (May 7, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> That being said, even by NY standards, valuing a room at W.57th at $1.83 Million might be a little excessive (365/6 nights*30K).


Jason I'm with you on this and I'd like to add to the above valuation. For a normal condo @1.85 million you will not be hit with $3k MF a week ($1.56m of MF in 10 years). So with that recurring cost/MF (rain or shine you got to pay your bills) the actual cost of ownership somewhere around  2-3x? ( $3.6m-4.8m?)....


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## SMHarman (May 7, 2015)

piyooshj said:


> Jason I'm with you on this and I'd like to add to the above valuation. For a normal condo @1.85 million you will not be hit with 2-3k MF a month. So with that recurring cost/MF (rain or shine you got to pay your bills) the actual cost is 1.5x or 2x (2.7m or 3.6m)....


In a NYC coop / condo in a full service luxury building you could expect a monthly maintenance of over $2 / psf. And that is unfurnished.


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## piyooshj (May 7, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> In a NYC coop / condo in a full service luxury building you could expect a monthly maintenance of over $2 / psf. And that is unfurnished.



$2psf == $1300 a month (assuming studios are 650 SF) vs. $12K a month so $10.7k more in MF. Math doesn't change a lot.


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## Jason245 (May 7, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> In a NYC coop / condo in a full service luxury building you could expect a monthly maintenance of over $2 / psf. And that is unfurnished.


I believe that these are running more than 2 dollars psf a week.  Also,  units are not even full condos


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## SMHarman (May 8, 2015)

piyooshj said:


> $2psf == $1300 a month (assuming studios are 650 SF) vs. $12K a month so $10.7k more in MF. Math doesn't change a lot.


PLUS the cost of furniture and furniture replacement. 
A serviced furnished corporate apartment is a better comparison. 
So to buy 650 sq ft in midtown studio / Jr 1 bed would be 650x $1500 so about a $1 buck. 


Jason245 said:


> I believe that these are running more than 2 dollars psf a week.  Also,  units are not even full condos


I said OVER $2 psf. Staff is a huge part of the cost. As is elevator maintainable and replacement.


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## Jason245 (May 8, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> PLUS the cost of furniture and furniture replacement.
> A serviced furnished corporate apartment is a better comparison.
> So to buy 650 sq ft in midtown studio / Jr 1 bed would be 650x $1500 so about a $1 buck.
> 
> I said OVER $2 psf. Staff is a huge part of the cost. As is elevator maintainable and replacement.



So you believe that over $8psf/month is reasonable for a room with no kitchen or washer and dryer in addition to a $1.8 Millon valuation on the buy side?

The thing I love about capalism is that things are worth whatever others are willing to pay. So if it has that much value to you, god bless. I can't get the numbers to work for me, but for emotional decisions, price is no object.


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 8, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> So you believe that over $8psf/month is reasonable for a room with no kitchen or washer and dryer in addition to a $1.8 Millon valuation on the buy side?
> 
> The thing I love about capalism is that things are worth whatever others are willing to pay. So if it has that much value to you, god bless. I can't get the numbers to work for me, but for emotional decisions, price is no object.



Now you're on to something.  Why do some people buy a Lexus over Toyota or a Cadillac over a Chevy?  The cars are made by the same companies and both will get you from point A to B.  Consumer behavior is a complex animal indeed.


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## brp (May 8, 2015)

piyooshj said:


> We'll I disagree with the whole math. If I am putting down $30k I expect 10% return on my money which makes it $3k per year + $3k in MF = $6k for 7 nights ($850 per night)? Plus if you stay or not you have to pay this every year. Good protection for Hilton on their income stream not sure if it is a good deal as a buyer. Am I missing anything?



I'm guessing that if you were getting a consistent 10% return on all of your investment income you'd not be spending time posting on a board like this. But, hey, kudos to you if you are 

I don't factor that into my calculations, for obvious reasons.

The MFs for this are about $1200. So, even if we look at losing half of the outlay, that's $15K. Looking at the MFs and amortizing the $15K over, say, 20 years works out to about $2000/year. And this is for 5-6 weekend nights, so let's call it 5.

That's $400/night. A steal for this quality in New York. But, of course, we'll not lose $15K, so the use cost is quite a bit lower.

And we will use the points. Every year. Until we decide to sell.

As for the total "cost" of the unit, and $/sq. ft. calculations - that's all an interesting academic exercise, but it doesn't impact my use of the property.

Cheers.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 8, 2015)

If I didn't have 6 weeks of timeshare, I'd consider buying here.



-


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 8, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> If I didn't have 6 weeks of timeshare, I'd consider buying here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I bought W. 57 Street resale.  I could have purchased something much cheaper in HGVC, but I wanted this location.  Perhaps value is in the eye of the beholder.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 8, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I bought W. 57 Street resale.  I could have purchased something much cheaper in HGVC, but I wanted this location.  Perhaps value is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nothing to do with this beholder's eye.  Odd thing to say.
I've stayed there on a very inexpensive rental and loved it.

It's the saturation point with the value I have at the 6 timeshares in my portfolio of fun:  Hyatt Sunset Harbor x 2Marriott's Custom House Boston x2, Nantucket Mariner House and Martha's Vineyard Harborside Inn. 

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## TheCryptkeeper (May 8, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Nothing to do with this beholder's eye.  Odd thing to say.
> 
> I've stayed there on a very inexpensive rental and loved it.
> 
> ...




How is it an odd thing to say?  Some of us find this location worth the extra cost to own, while others don't.  I'm merely suggesting it's subjective.  I'm not being critical of anyone's judgement.  


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## CalGalTraveler (May 8, 2015)

piyooshj said:


> We'll I disagree with the whole math. If I am putting down $30k I expect 10% return on my money which makes it $3k per year + $3k in MF = $6k for 7 nights ($850 per night)? Plus if you stay or not you have to pay this every year. Good protection for Hilton on their income stream not sure if it is a good deal as a buyer. Am I missing anything?



If you can find a timeshare (or other investment) that can return 10% every year with little risk or hassle, I've got some land in Florida to offer you. 

To compare these rooms to $300/night rooms during peak season in NYC is ludicrous.  I've stayed at the Pierre hotel on business for $750/night and it was a closet.  If you don't mind sleeping with bedbugs and loud party goers at cheap hotels have fun, but I prefer to stay in nicer surroundings.  During peak season W. 57th 1 bedrooms have been made available to the public for $1200 a night.  

Just as some buy Lexus and BMW, there are intangibles for owners.  For example, owners can book a single night at W. 57th unlike other HGVC members who must book at least 3.   I travel on business to NYC periodically and cannot stay for 3 nights saving valuable points and money.  The fact that I can get into NYC in 50 days as a home resort owner without competing with the rest of the HGVC system has value.  The owners lounge has value.  The fact that I have certainty as to what I will get in NYC and the location also has value.  

I don't travel to NYC to eat in my room or do my laundry so, yes, such features offer no value to me.

My next step is to buy a cheap Vegas timeshare to add points. However, I expect that, like all travel point gaming, HGVC will eventually close the Vegas resale loophole and will devalue those points relative to more expensive properties so I will make sure that I like what I own (I like NYC) or buy Vegas for so cheap that I don't care if my initial investment dwindles to zero.


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## piyooshj (May 9, 2015)

brp said:


> I'm guessing that if you were getting a consistent 10% return on all of your investment income you'd not be spending time posting on a board like this. But, hey, kudos to you if you are
> 
> I don't factor that into my calculations, for obvious reasons.



What if I tell you yes my historic return is 10%+ (not consistent though). Historic return of equity market will be close. Let me turn this around, lets say you dont put your money donw (since you dont factor interest), how much interest Hilton or any timeshare company charge you....blip blip...they do factor interest into the picture why wont you?

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. I am happy to see how people are justifying their expensive TS purchase and purchasing BMW.....what matters is after spending all these how much is left in your bank account?


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## CalGalTraveler (May 9, 2015)

piyooshj said:


> ...what matters is after spending all these how much is left in your bank account?



This is where we will agree to disagree...what matters is how well you experience your life.  You can't enjoy your hard-earned money if all of it sits in the stock market.  

Timeshares are not an investment and expecting a 10% return is irrational.

Timeshares are like buying a luxury car. Once you drive it off the lot it loses significant value. You need to spend money to maintain it annually. You will never sell it for more than you paid for it  - in fact you will get a fraction.

Does that mean that people should not buy cars because cars have a terrible ROI? No because cars are not an investment.  People buy them to use and enjoy during its useful life. Some people buy used cars to reduce the initial cost. The same goes for timeshares. 

If your timeshare expense is a significant percentage of your assets and you worry about your return on investment you should not be in this game at all.


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## piyooshj (May 9, 2015)

Well 10% is not a return one should expect. However doing cba with hotel prices I thought it was appropriate to use 10% in the equation. 


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## Beaglemom3 (May 9, 2015)

Redweek has several rentals at  W 57th with 3 summer weeks at $1095/week = $156/night (without a view, without the breakfast perk). I got a great view last time, but no breakfast perk. That was fine as a few doors down is that green grocer with coffee, lattes, cappuccinos and all sorts of breakfast items. (open 24 hours). 

There are more weeks at higher prices with views at various prices on Redweek for rent (and for resale starting @ $18K)

It's a good chance for those wanting to see what it's all about. A chance to "kick the tires" first by renting.

I am going again in June on a low cost rental.

To be clear, this is for W57th and not the Hilton Club (Ave. of the Americas).



-


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## Jason245 (May 9, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Redweek has several rentals at  W 57th with 3 summer weeks at $1095/week = $156/night (without a view, without the breakfast perk). I got a great view last time, but no breakfast perk. That was fine as a few doors down is that green grocer with coffee, lattes, cappuccinos and all sorts of breakfast items. (open 24 hours).
> 
> There are more weeks at higher prices with views and at various prices on Redweek for rent (and for sale starting @ $18K)
> 
> ...


That appears to be less than mf cost. . At that rate, why own at all.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 9, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> That appears to be less than mf cost. . At that rate, why own at all.



 Yes, I wondered that myself. Not sure if these are promotional rates or not, but we just grabbed another summer week. There is one in August left, one in September and one during the Columbus Day week at $156/nt.  A few-several as well from 4-7 nights at higher prices ($350-$400/nt) for other dates. As long as there are low cost rentals, the numbers work for me.
I like NYC, but have a massive amount of MRPs to use there as well.

  Lovely place.Hilton has a nice product here.  I enjoyed my rental there recently and will enjoy going back with my "S.E." (spousal equivalent) this time. We can get to NYC easily from Boston via Amtrak. 




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## TheCryptkeeper (May 9, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> We can get to NYC easily from Boston via Amtrak.
> -



I like riding the Amtrak.  It's a 28 hour trip from Tampa to NYC, which we're taking in late July.  Anyone ever stay at the Manhattan Club?  I got a 7 day stay there through RCI at a great exchange rate.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 9, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I like riding the Amtrak.  It's a 28 hour trip from Tampa to NYC, which we're taking in late July.  Anyone ever stay at the Manhattan Club?  I got a 7 day rental their through RCI at a great exchange rate.



  We do, too. We take the "regular" train from Bos-NYP. Then change to the Silver Star or Silver Meteor sleeper train all the way down to Miami. Then we drive to Key West. Have done this a few times. Love it. Maybe we'll see you in the dining car (meals come with your ticket). 31 hours from Bos - Miami, total. We've taken it from TPA to NYP as well when we stayed in Naples. All good.

  We find that using Amtrak Rewards points are the best deal for us v. cash.

   I've stayed at the Manhattan Club.  It differs from the Hilton with some plusses and minuses. Has a kitchenette which is great in NYC. The rooms I've had were a tad dated, but they may be upgrading. JMHO.

-


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 9, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> We do, too. We take the "regular" train from Bos-NYP. Then change to the Silver Star or Silver Meteor sleeper train all the way down to Miami. Then we drive to Key West. Have done this a few times. Love it. Maybe we'll see you in the dining car (meals come with your ticket). 31 hours from Bos - Miami, total. We've taken it from TPA to NYP as well when we stayed in Naples. All good.
> 
> We find that using Amtrak Rewards points are the best deal for us v. cash.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the information.  We recently discovered the Amtrak Rewards Program and got their MasterCard, which maximizes the rewards and comes with some nice perks (free round trip ticket and free companion ticket). Is it cheaper to buy and use points for travel than to pay cash?

I went inside the Manhattan Club's lobby last time I was in NYC back in late October, and it looked nice; but I've never stayed there.  Is this your first time at W. 57th St.?


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## Beaglemom3 (May 9, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> Thanks for the information.  We recently discovered the Amtrak Rewards Program and got their MasterCard, which maximizes the rewards and comes with some nice perks (free round trip ticket and free companion ticket). Is it cheaper to buy and use points for travel than to pay cash?
> 
> I went inside the Manhattan Club's lobby last time I was in NYC back in late October, and it looked nice; but I've never stayed there.  Is this your first time at W. 57th St.?



  Re: Amtrak points/buying and using:  I think you can end up paying less when you buy Amtrak points.  They limit the purchase for yourself @ 10,000 pts @ $275.  When they have a bonus promotion on points, we buy the max amount and add these to the points we earn on purchases.  I have purchased points on my own acct and transferred them to Doug's (my S.O./S.E) acct. in addition to (him) buying them. We can build them up fast. All large purchases go on the Amtrak Card.

Edit: We both have individual  Amtrak Rewards Accts., so we can transfer back & forth and add to one of the accounts by transferring points in addition to purchasing them.

If you have a mobility disability, the amount of points for a sleeper is reduced to 15,000 points now. Discuss with an agent.

  I stayed at  57th last March on a business trip. Loved it. We're returning in June.  

  The Manhattan Club and the Hilton 57th both are great properties and I like them almost equally for different reasons.

-


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## Jason245 (May 9, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> I like riding the Amtrak.  It's a 28 hour trip from Tampa to NYC, which we're taking in late July.  Anyone ever stay at the Manhattan Club?  I got a 7 day stay there through RCI at a great exchange rate.


Why not fly?  is there that big of a price difference?


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 9, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Why not fly?  is there that big of a price difference?





1.  Don't have to go through security

2.  Two Free checked bags 

3.  Seating is more comfortable

4.  Air is probably safer to breathe 

5.  Enjoy the sights

6.  Dislike flying 

7.  Sometimes a little cheaper than flying when factoring luggage

8.  I like the nostalgia


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## Beaglemom3 (May 9, 2015)

TheCryptkeeper said:


> 1.  Don't have to go through security
> 2.  Two Free checked bags
> 3.  Seating is more comfortable
> 4.  Air is probably safer
> ...



  I totally agree with you 100%.

 When taking the train from Bos-NYP, we just roll on at South Station or Rte. 128. No arriving 1-2 hours earlier to get through TSA. Then, arriving at NY Penn, we roll off and are in Manhattan. No getting in from JFK or Newark  It comes out to be almost the same time when one factors in everything. Also, much cheaper. If booked in time, we pay about $98-112 R/T fares. Not bad. 

  As for NY - MIA, we enjoy the journey itself. Our motto is "It's not the destination, it's the journey".  

As for us, it's part of the vacation where we get to see America, break bread with other travelers. I would never have gotten the chance to sit and eat with an Amish family except for the train (as far as I know of). Doug and I read, play scrabble, nap, talk and just enjoy looking out the window.

  Also, since we go to Key West in late January and the 1st 2 weeks of February, our experience is that more flights are cancelled to weather delays at this time than Amtrak. Yes, Amtrak can & does, but our experience is that it is less.

  It works for us as we are dinosaurs and have the time to take it more slowly. When I was a little kid and Dad was in the Air Force, we were transferred from Nellis in Nv. to Elmendorf in Alaska. We took the Skyliner train up to Seattle and I have been mesmerized by train travel since. I 'll take the train whenever possible in Europe or in North America.


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## Jason245 (May 9, 2015)

I live near Miami. . For me the idea of 28 hours on a train seems like a lot.. especially if I am bringing children. .


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## Beaglemom3 (May 9, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I live near Miami. . For me the idea of 28 hours on a train seems like a lot.. especially if I am bringing children. .



  Yep, on the Mia - NYP run it could get old for children nowadays depending on their ages.

  Maybe the Zephyr or California coastal routes would be more interesting

http://www.seat61.com/california-zephyr.htm#.VU5ryJVFCW1

  It's  a chance for families to share scenery together without the worry about watching the driving. It would be a great topic for "what I did on my summer vacation" for history or geography class.
 It's a great time to ditch all the electronics, too, we find.


  Here are some links that may be informative:

http://www.travelforkids.com/Funtodo/United_States/kids-see-america-by-train.htm   and http://www.familyvacationcritic.com/amtraks-southwest-chief-route-for-families/art/


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## vacationhopeful (May 9, 2015)

I have spent time on European overnight trains ... they do NOT sit on bypass rails to let freight trains go cruising ... 

And I rode twice the train from the Northeast to Florida ... might consider it again ... depends on where I get to sleep and how much wine I want to drink. Better than driving - not near as acceptable as flying ... IMHO (and that of my back end).


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## Jason245 (May 11, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> As for NY - MIA, we enjoy the journey itself. Our motto is "It's not the destination, it's the journey".
> 
> As for us, it's part of the vacation where we get to see America, break bread with other travelers. I would never have gotten the chance to sit and eat with an Amish family except for the train (as far as I know of). Doug and I read, play scrabble, nap, talk and just enjoy looking out the window.
> 
> ...



Do you get a sleep car? I can not imagine spending over 24 hours in a train without at least a bed to sleep in....


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## Beaglemom3 (May 11, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Do you get a sleep car? I can not imagine spending over 24 hours in a train without at least a bed to sleep in....



  Yes (see post #44), always, always a sleeper from NY to Miami. There are no sleepers from Bos-NY as they are only on the Silver Meteor or Silver Star routes. The routes can be seen on Amtrak.com



  We only get the bedroom sleepers as they have the enclosed bathroom v. the roomette. The roomette's bathroom is in the room, although good for one traveling alone. There's always the bathroom down the hall in the sleeper car. 

-


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## Jason245 (May 11, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Yes (see post #44), always, always a sleeper from NY to Miami. There are no sleepers from Bos-NY as they are only on the Silver Meteor or Silver Star routes. The routes can be seen on Amtrak.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just priced that out for summer. .jeepers. .it is about 1k for 2 people. .add a kid or two and you need two rooms. . At over 500 a ticket. .I think flying makes more sense


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## Jason245 (May 11, 2015)

Actually. .just saw for around 750 a room. . A little more reasonable


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## Beaglemom3 (May 11, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I just priced that out for summer. .jeepers. .it is about 1k for 2 people. .add a kid or two and you need two rooms. . At over 500 a ticket. .I think flying makes more sense



  That's why we use Amtrak points for this.

   I think that they'll let you sleep a whole family in one bedroom depending on how old the kiddies are. Not sure. You may want to speak to an agent.
1 800 USA RAIL.

Kids 2-12 travel at half price, but not sure about on the sleeper cars.

-


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## Jason245 (May 11, 2015)

How do you earn points and what is redemption rate?


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## Beaglemom3 (May 11, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> How do you earn points and what is redemption rate?



  We have an Amtrak Rewards Card. Got it when they offered 30k points, but I haven't seen that in a while. They are offering 12k now, but that's not very inticing.

  We put all large purchases on this card.

  Don't forget that the points apply to the room whether there are one or two passengers in it. I'm not sure about traveling with more than 2.

  The redemeption rate varies on what route you're taking on Amtrak. 

  Here's more info:  http://thepointsguy.com/2012/09/maximizing-amtrak-guest-rewards-points-redeeming-and-partners/


-https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/info/redemptionguidelines


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## Jason245 (May 11, 2015)

If I read that correct. . 25k point gets a bedroom sleeper for two. . 15 k point gets a sleeper with no shower for 2.. 40 k gets a family of four from NY to Miami  with access to all amenities and the privacy of a shower. . Airfare rewards would be at least 100k points plus baggage. .


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## Jason245 (May 11, 2015)

Wait that was one way.. 80k round trip


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## Beaglemom3 (May 11, 2015)

Jason,
  I think that your numbers are high. I could be wrong. So, please give Amtrak a call to double check. 

  -


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## Jason245 (May 12, 2015)

I went to the website for rewards it said sleeping bedroom from NY to Miami 25k 15k for roomlet. Per terms on amtrak website this is for one way and redemptions for round trip are booked as two one way.  

25k plus 15k times 2 equals 80k.

Max capacity in bedroom or roomlet is 2 people. Family of four would need a minimum of four beds..so that translates to at least one bedroom and one roomlet. 

Air travel is about 300 per person round trip or between 25 to 50k airmiles depending on availability. .


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## Beaglemom3 (May 12, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I went to the website for rewards it said sleeping bedroom from NY to Miami 25k 15k for roomlet. Per terms on amtrak website this is for one way and redemptions for round trip are booked as two one way.
> 
> 25k plus 15k times 2 equals 80k.
> 
> ...



   I would contact an agent and ask how many can fit into one bedroom. It may depend on your the age  (aka size) of your children.

  -


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## Jason245 (May 12, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> I would contact an agent and ask how many can fit into one bedroom. It may depend on your the age  (aka size) of your children.
> 
> -



Up to three can fit into a bedroom, up to two in a roomlette. 

Currently I am only a family of 3 so technically I could do just one sleeper, but one never knows what may come...

In all honesty, I have never considered the train, but I am thinking that it might be a better alternative to flying or driving from Miami to DC (or maybe even an exchange into the Alexandria VA timeshare which looks like it is almost right across the street from the train station).


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## Beaglemom3 (May 12, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Up to three can fit into a bedroom, up to two in a roomlette.
> 
> Currently I am only a family of 3 so technically I could do just one sleeper, but one never knows what may come...
> 
> In all honesty, I have never considered the train, but I am thinking that it might be a better alternative to flying or driving from Miami to DC (or maybe even an exchange into the Alexandria VA timeshare which looks like it is almost right across the street from the train station).



Hi Jason,

  Not sure where you're starting your trip from. That's a big factor.

  For now, with 3, you could do the one bedroom, but if you are adding adult travelers to the mix, that would change things. I think that you could get by with adding one more munchkin.

  The regular bedroom sleepers are very cramped when the beds are open.

  If you can get a handicapped room (providing they're not all booked for disabled travelers), it will give you more floor space to move about when the beds are open.

 I'll find a photo and post it.


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## Jason245 (May 12, 2015)

I live near Miami


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## Beaglemom3 (May 12, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I live near Miami



  Aha, so you have a long trip and will need the bedroom.

  On the east coast line, the Siver Meteor and Silver Star routes, there are only viewliner accommodations. There is talk of adding larger bedroom cars similar to the superliner rooms, but nothing so far.

Youtube tours:  

Accessible bedroom:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKStZrQgqRg

Regular bedroom:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKStZrQgqRg


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## Beaglemom3 (May 12, 2015)

I think I reversed the youtube clips, but you can see the difference.



-


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## Jason245 (May 12, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Aha, so you have a long trip and will need the bedroom.
> 
> On the east coast line, the Siver Meteor and Silver Star, there are only viewliner accommodations. There is talk of some larger bedroom similar to the superliner rooms, but nothing so far.
> 
> ...




Thank you for posting this. You don't happen to know how food works on the train do you? do they have fixed meals? Are they expensive? what about... "adult" beverages....


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## Beaglemom3 (May 12, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Thank you for posting this. You don't happen to know how food works on the train do you? do they have fixed meals? Are they expensive? what about... "adult" beverages....



  I do know.

  You/your entire party will get free breakfast, lunch and dinner, bottles of water, soda and juice. We always leave a tip.

 If you have a small party, you may get seated at a table with other diners. This is how I got seated with an Amish family. 

  Alcohol is not included, but they have wine, beer and spirits.

The menu changes and may vary with the direction you're headed (north or south).

Here's a typical menu:  http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/265/949/Silver-Star-Dining-Car-Menu-0515.pdf

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/751/823/Silver-Meteor-Dining-Car-Menu-0515.pdf


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## Beaglemom3 (May 12, 2015)

Be sure to scroll down on the menu pages to see the main entrees.


Ignore the prices on the menus (except for the alcohol). Meals are included in the ticket pr ice (cash or points).


The food is fair-good. Breakfasts are the best IMHO. I had a great omelet with very good coffee between Savannah and Jacksonville once. Nice to eat in the dining car and watch the world go by.



-


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## Jason245 (May 13, 2015)

I almost had my wife sold on this until yesterday derailment


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## Beaglemom3 (May 13, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> I almost had my wife sold on this until yesterday derailment



  Understandable, but planes go down, busses and autos crash. I think that one hopes/believes/assumes that you're safer on a train with all that steel and "gross tonnage" around you, but not always.

  I'm a fatalist by nature and believe we all have our appointed times whether it's on Amtrak, in your bath tub, on your treadmill or in your favorite lounge chair. 
  Yes, I know, I know............ why tip the hands of fate some might think.

  Every one has their comfort level with their favorite mode of transportation.

  We take the train as Doug doesn't like to fly all that much. He is retired U.S.N. and had to fly  every 90 days on those bumpy military transport planes when changing blue and gold crews on his submarine patrols. 

-

-


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## Beaglemom3 (May 13, 2015)

We've really gotten off the OP topic, but I just want to say that I've been on two minor mishaps on Amtrak, but they were not at fault.

Once, at slow speed, as we were approaching the Winter Park, Fl. station, we hit the front of a car. The car had been trying to beat the crossing gate. It did not win.  No injuries as the driver got out of the car, but it held us up for about two hours while the police investigated.  All I can say is "Mercedes Benz". 

The second was at night when we hit a moose or elk somewhere in N.C.


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## Jason245 (May 13, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> We've really gotten off the OP topic, but I just want to say that I've been on two minor mishaps on Amtrak, but they were not at fault.
> 
> Once, at slow speed, as we were approaching the Winter Park, Fl. station, we hit the front of a car. The car had been trying to beat the crossing gate. It did not win.  No injuries as the driver got out of the car, but it held us up for about two hours while the police investigated.  All I can say is "Mercedes Benz".
> 
> The second was at night when we hit a moose or elk somewhere in N.C.



Out of how many rides?

If you are two for two... tell me which trains you will be on so that I can avoid.


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## brp (May 13, 2015)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Timeshares are not an investment and expecting a 10% return is irrational.
> 
> Timeshares are like buying a luxury car. Once you drive it off the lot it loses significant value. You need to spend money to maintain it annually. You will never sell it for more than you paid for it  - in fact you will get a fraction.



Certainly, to this point, the value of W. 57th has continued to rise. Prices (including resale prices) have gone up and Hilton have bought back properties for more than the original owner paid, direct. So, there is a reasonable likelihood that a W. 57th purchase could be a minor "investment." Certainly, even if not, the fraction returned will be quite large compared to other timeshares. Very different from most timeshare (and luxury car) purchases.



Beaglemom3 said:


> Redweek has several rentals at  W 57th with 3 summer weeks at $1095/week = $156/night (without a view, without the breakfast perk).



Summer is a simply horrible time to be in NYC. I can understand why a summer rental would have to be deeply discounted.



Beaglemom3 said:


> A few-several as well from 4-7 nights at higher prices ($350-$400/nt) for other dates.



This makes more sense from a price standpoint. Spring and Fall will command higher rates. Even winter in NYC is better than summer.

Cheers.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 13, 2015)

brp said:


> Certainly, to this point, the value of W. 57th has continued to rise. Prices (including resale prices) have gone up and Hilton have bought back properties for more than the original owner paid, direct. So, there is a reasonable likelihood that a W. 57th purchase could be a minor "investment." Certainly, even if not, the fraction returned will be quite large compared to other timeshares. Very different from most timeshare (and luxury car) purchases.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Coming from iinner city Boston, I don't mind NYC in the summer. It's all in your urban heat tolerance index. Different strokes.

Late summer, early autumn, late spring, early summer all best bets for those who haven't experienced big-city summer heat.

-


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## brp (May 13, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Coming from iinner city Boston, I don't mind NYC in the summer. It's all in your urban heat tolerance index. Different *strokes*.
> 
> Late summer, early autumn, late spring, early summer all best bets for those who haven't experienced big-city summer heat.
> 
> -



Having grown up in NYC and lived in Boston for 4 years, I agree, Both suck in summer...but one is really no worse than the other. Just not sure I'd want to go from one Hellhole to another for vacation.

I think "strokes" is appropriate here 

The listed timeframes are awesome for NYC (or Boston, for that matter).

Cheers.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 13, 2015)

brp said:


> Having grown up in NYC and lived in Boston for 4 years, I agree, Both suck in summer...but one is really no worse than the other. Just not sure I'd want to go from one Hellhole to another for vacation.
> 
> I think "strokes" is appropriate here
> 
> ...



  Yes, but it's a hot, sticky, unrelenting, humid, my Ban wore off, sweating bullets type of heat !  

  None of that wimpy "dry heat" for us.

-


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## brp (May 13, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Yes, but it's a hot, sticky, unrelenting, humid, my Ban wore off, sweating bullets type of heat !
> 
> None of that wimpy "dry heat" for us.
> 
> -



We were in Orlando this past weekend. 93 and about 40000% humidity. Shade and air conditioning were our friends 

Out here in Cali, everything's dry - the heat, the ground..everything...

Cheers.


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## vacationhopeful (May 13, 2015)

Florida heat is BAD and if not on the Atlantic coast --- hot and humid.

As for the train crash just north of Philadelphia ... bad curve and 100+ MPH train in a less than 70MPH zone. I was staying in NYC for 3 nights and leaving early this AM ... had almost 90 yo aunt with me -- so drove to Wyndham Midtown and spent $60 dollars per night to valet park my car.... auntie at 5:30AM saw the news ... telling me good thing that we drove to NYC.... got back home with no problem.

This train crash is a major issue - there will be NO easy passenger travel for trains for quite a while ... Transit of NJ will be running (was already packed ---- think cattle car with no parking spots before crash) and anything north of NYC to terminate at Grand Central --- any Amtrak trains coming up from the South will terminate at 30th Street Station in Philadelphia. (terminate means 180 degrees reversing direction of the train -- switching yards).

That is 100 miles NO PASSENGER train interconnections ... for Amtrak.

If freight is impacted (likely)... the highways will be just swamped with thousands MORE tractor trailers.


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## TheCryptkeeper (May 13, 2015)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Yes, but it's a hot, sticky, unrelenting, humid, my Ban wore off, sweating bullets type of heat !
> 
> None of that wimpy "dry heat" for us.
> 
> -



Try living in Tampa.  The heat and humidity are awful June through September.  I like mowing my own lawn and doing yard work, but during the Summer my skin feels like the back of a licked postage stamp the instant I step outside my air conditioned house.  One of our greatest fears is that the A/C might break during Summer. It becomes simply unbearable.  Summers are hot in NYC,  but the Florida humidity is much worse.


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