# DVC news not so good



## calgarygary (Feb 12, 2009)

Came across this article in the Orlando Sentinel and I think you can expect some major changes at DVC.  With loss of their line of credit and being forced to carry timeshare mortgages expect a drop in ROFR rates.  Maybe we will see the true value of DVC not some propped up value as DVC will be forced to choose between using limited dollars for carrying new sales or exercising rofr.


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## littlestar (Feb 12, 2009)

Disney is sure taking their time on my resale contract. It's been two weeks and still no word on ROFR for me at $71 a point. Mine is a 100 point contract. Not losing 100 points is worth $1,000 to me at $10.00 a point (the going rental rate), so I'm not waiting for prices to drop even lower  

Another thing, there are lots of existing members that get on wait lists to add on at existing resorts (like the Beach Club) so that can affect whether Disney buys back or not, too. Whether or not they have owners asking for add-ons at different properties. 

Vero and Hilton Head I wouldn't be afraid to push the price low. But some of the others, if it's a good contract with banked points, it might be snapped up by Disney.  

It is a great time to buy, though


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## calgarygary (Feb 12, 2009)

littlestar said:


> Disney is sure taking their time on my resale contract. It's been two weeks and still no word on ROFR for me at $71 a point. Mine is a 100 point contract. Not losing 100 points is worth $1,000 to me at $10.00 a point (the going rental rate), so I'm not waiting for prices to drop even lower
> 
> Another thing, there are lots of existing members that get on wait lists to add on at existing resorts (like the Beach Club) so that can affect whether Disney buys back or not, too. Whether or not they have owners asking for add-ons at different properties.
> 
> ...



Those long wait lists may not be so long in today's economy.  You are already seeing rofr rates dropping lower and lower in all resorts if you haven't seen the rofr thread on the dis. I suggest you check it out.  Back in Sept. AKV might not pass rofr at $95/point now you are seeing deals going through as low as the mid 80's.  As the available $'s for mortgages shrinks, rofr will be find a lower and lower base for every resort.


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## littlestar (Feb 12, 2009)

Yeah, I've been keeping track of that Dis ROFR thread. But when I found my use year (I'm an existing member) and the amount of points I wanted, I went for it - laughter. 

By the way, how's Vistana Villages holding up on the resale front? I saw where they're putting in a new themed pirate ship slide. I like Vistana Villages real well and that slide should make it even more popular for people with kids that normally stay at the Disney resorts.


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## calgarygary (Feb 12, 2009)

littlestar said:


> Yeah, I've been keeping track of that Dis ROFR thread. But when I found my use year (I'm an existing member) and the amount of points I wanted, I went for it - laughter.
> 
> By the way, how's Vistana Villages holding up on the resale front? I saw where they're putting in a new themed pirate ship slide. I like Vistana Villages real well and that slide should make it even more popular for people with kids that normally stay at the Disney resorts.



I don't pay attention to the resale value as I got my week at $0!  Last year was my first use year and I used my staroptions to go to Harborside.  The only time I was at VV was back in 2002 and it has changed a great deal since then.


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## littlestar (Feb 13, 2009)

You can't beat $0 for Vistana Villages.   That's a terrific resort.

We heard we passed. We got our SSR contract at $71 a point.


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## calgarygary (Feb 13, 2009)

Enjoy your DVC but stay away from the Dis thread on rofr!


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## Carl D (Feb 14, 2009)

I said it before, and I'll say it again.. I don't believe ROFR is setting the market price for DVC. The fact that the resort is attached to a hotel that has hotel rooms for $400/night keeps the price high. 
It wouldn't make sense for a DVC 2br to be valued at $50/night while the hotel has a hotel room for $400/night. The market won't let that happen.


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## FLDVCFamily (Feb 14, 2009)

So basically if one is on the fence about selling, it's time to get out while the getting is still good?  I'm on-the-fence about selling our 150 point BWV contract right now.  DVC's move to RCI has made it so we really don't need it anymore because we can get such good DVC trades now.  It's not worth the dues, honestly.


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## littlestar (Feb 14, 2009)

Carl D said:


> I said it before, and I'll say it again.. I don't believe ROFR is setting the market price for DVC. The fact that the resort is attached to a hotel that has hotel rooms for $400/night keeps the price high.
> It wouldn't make sense for a DVC 2br to be valued at $50/night while the hotel has a hotel room for $400/night. The market won't let that happen.



I believe this is true. It's the rental cost of those WDW deluxe hotel rooms that makes DVC hold value. Of course, with the economy, it's down, but it hasn't tanked. 

The reason why we bought more DVC points is because I want to be able to pick up the phone and book WDW onsite for my kids whenever I want to. Yeah, I could have bought another Marriott (which I love) or Vistana Villages, but I wanted more DVC points.


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## Big Matt (Feb 14, 2009)

But that doesn't apply to Vero Beach and Hilton Head.  I'd bet we'll see those contracts go way down in value.  If so, you will have the ability to use those points to get into the DVC in Orlando.



Carl D said:


> I said it before, and I'll say it again.. I don't believe ROFR is setting the market price for DVC. The fact that the resort is attached to a hotel that has hotel rooms for $400/night keeps the price high.
> It wouldn't make sense for a DVC 2br to be valued at $50/night while the hotel has a hotel room for $400/night. The market won't let that happen.


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## littlestar (Feb 14, 2009)

Big Matt said:


> But that doesn't apply to Vero Beach and Hilton Head.  I'd bet we'll see those contracts go way down in value.  If so, you will have the ability to use those points to get into the DVC in Orlando.



Yeah, they already are priced lower than the rest. Vero's dues are so high (over $6.00 a point) that I'd have to think long and hard about a purchase there unless I needed one of those beach cottages every year.


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## spiceycat (Feb 18, 2009)

FLDVCFamily said:


> So basically if one is on the fence about selling, it's time to get out while the getting is still good?  I'm on-the-fence about selling our 150 point BWV contract right now.  DVC's move to RCI has made it so we really don't need it anymore because we can get such good DVC trades now.  It's not worth the dues, honestly.



yea but you can't count of them staying with RCI. they started with RCI and didn't like something so went with II. that could happen again.

BWV is still getting a good resale. don't think DVC will allow it to go down.

got rid of my OKW and brought BLT. if Disney really gets hurting - can see allowing OKW and SSR to go down - then not allowing them or VB or HH to exchange into the other DVC resorts - or charging them to exchang.

disney contracts allows both to happen. Hope it does not come to that - but the future is hard to predict.

right now with them selling the treehouses can't see them giving up on SSR for many years.


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## tombo (Feb 18, 2009)

Carl D said:


> I said it before, and I'll say it again.. I don't believe ROFR is setting the market price for DVC. The fact that the resort is attached to a hotel that has hotel rooms for $400/night keeps the price high.
> It wouldn't make sense for a DVC 2br to be valued at $50/night while the hotel has a hotel room for $400/night. The market won't let that happen.



The days of $400 a night in a Disney hotel is long gone. They started with buy 4 nights get 3 free this spring. Now they have extended it through the summer. Then Disney threw in a $200 Disney Gift Card. Now they have thrown in free tickets. That doesn't keep prices high, in fact in the ad on the Disney web site they brag that their offer is like getting rooms for $50 a night. That is a long way from $400. The ad below was copied and pasted from the Disney web site. Above this ad on the Disney web site they have a big banner saying that in addition to what is listed below you get free tickets.

Buy 4 Get 3 Free 
Offer valid for most Disney resorts at varying rates for stays most nights 2/15 - 3/9, 3/17 - 4/4 and 4/19 - 8/15/09. 

Sample 7 Night Package at a Value Resort as low as $1375 including 7 Day Theme Park tickets:

For a family of four in a standard room 
For stays most nights between 4/26-5/21/09 
That's like paying $50 a night per person for this package 
Total package savings of $416

When you travel between 2/15 - 3/9 and 3/17- 3/29, you'll also get a
$200 Disney Gift Card.

When traveling between 3/30 - 4/1 and 4/19 - 8/15/09 AND you stay at either Disney's Old Key West Resort or Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa, you'll receive a $100 Disney Gift Card.


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## mdurette (Feb 18, 2009)

Humm...the article states 3 new DVC in Orlando.  BLT, AKL - what is the 3rd?  I don't believe they are treating the TreeHouses as new because that is part of SSR.


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## mdurette (Feb 18, 2009)

My 2 cents about DVC:

Well I have been on the fence about purchasing for a LONG time.  We go at least 2 full weeks a year - can purchase cash - everything that makes sense to purchase.  Up until the switch I was trading in from II all the time.  (got 6 weeks just in the past 14 months!)  So now - I am looking at resale again.  But, I'm cheap, in order to vacation as much as I do, I need to be.  So, I'm still holding off on DVC (mainly because I don't like the annual fees) and will try my next visit off site at a Marriot.  Heck, if I like that just as much - then why not trade and pay close to nothing!

With all that said - yes, I still look at resales a couple times a week!!!!


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## Carl D (Feb 18, 2009)

tombo said:


> The days of $400 a night in a Disney hotel is long gone. They started with buy 4 nights get 3 free this spring. Now they have extended it through the summer. Then Disney threw in a $200 Disney Gift Card. Now they have thrown in free tickets. That doesn't keep prices high, in fact in the ad on the Disney web site they brag that their offer is like getting rooms for $50 a night. That is a long way from $400. The ad below was copied and pasted from the Disney web site. Above this ad on the Disney web site they have a big banner saying that in addition to what is listed below you get free tickets.
> 
> Buy 4 Get 3 Free
> Offer valid for most Disney resorts at varying rates for stays most nights 2/15 - 3/9, 3/17 - 4/4 and 4/19 - 8/15/09.
> ...


So... What price do you think you are paying for a Disney DELUXE hotel???
Please don't quote a "value" hotel again... That only makes you look foolish.


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## Carl D (Feb 18, 2009)

Big Matt said:


> But that doesn't apply to Vero Beach and Hilton Head.  I'd bet we'll see those contracts go way down in value.  If so, you will have the ability to use those points to get into the DVC in Orlando.


As littlestar has pointed out... Those contracts are worth less. 
There is no guarantee owning at those resorts will get you to WDW.


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## littlestar (Feb 18, 2009)

I bought more points because if I want to book nights at deluxe level, 13 points a night at Beach Club Villas beats $300 a night on cash (even with a discount, it's darn expensive). I like being able to treat the kids or my nieces and nephews.  

We don't do the All Stars so no cheap packages for us.

We stay in a variety of timeshares in Orlando (mostly Marriott) and enjoy it, but I still like picking up the phone and booking some nights in a Disney deluxe level property on DVC points.


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## tombo (Feb 18, 2009)

Carl D said:


> So... What price do you think you are paying for a Disney DELUXE hotel???
> Please don't quote a "value" hotel again... That only makes you look foolish.



On Disney's web site I made this fake reservation. It is for a deluxe villa resort. I guess you are foolish enough to think you know better than Disney what deluxe is. Please check any dates you want as I picked the prime week of June 20 to June 27th and got a total of $1931 for 7 days. Take $100 off for the Disney card and you are at $1831. $1831 divided by 7 equals $261.57 a night. That is a deluxe villa in prime summer time. This rate also includes magic your way tickets to Disney. Deduct another $140 a night for 2 free Magic Your way tickets and you are down to $121.57 a night. Who is foolish now?

This is a copy and paste reservation request from the Disney web site:

Your Magic Your Way Package includes the selections listed below. You can change any selections and add flight and ground transportation. Or you can book this offer now. 


Disney's Old Key West Resort 
Total: $1,931.36  †View This Alternate Offer forDisney's Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa 
Total: $1,931.36  †
 View Resort Web Site Disney Deluxe Villa Resort 

Retreat to this quaint community where the ambiance of Key West permeates the pastel colors, gingerbread accents and Victorian themes. Disney Deluxe Villa Resorts are part of Disney Vacation Club.


Rate Type : 7-Night Magic Your Way January-Aug 15th Offer Room Type   
 We have pre-selected a room type for you. However, if additional room types are available, you will see them below, along with the difference in the total price of the offer if you select that room type. 

To change the room type, just select the one you want. Information about that room type will display. Then click "Update" and the total price of the offer will be updated.

Close Open 
     Studio  Included    
Studios offer views of water, woodlands, or fairways. The Deluxe Studios have two queen-size beds, table and chairs, and private balcony. Studio amenities include microwave, refrigerator, coffeemaker, and wet bar.

you get a $100 Disney card plus:

2009 Package Inclusions


Your Magic Your Way Package includes your room accommodations and Magic Your Way Base Ticket. In addition, as part of purchasing your package through disneyworld.com, you receive the following inclusions upon checking in at your Disney Resort Hotel (not available for packages booked through the Disney Reservation Center):

Commemorative luggage tag (one per person) 
Disney's PhotoPass 5 x 7 photo certificate – When you check in, you receive a welcome letter with instructions on how to get one 5 x 7 print from Disney's PhotoPass. With Disney's PhotoPass service, your family's magical Walt Disney World® Resort vacation memories are captured by a professional photographer. 
Planet Hollywood® certificate – Enjoy a $15 certificate valid for food and non-alcoholic beverages at Planet Hollywood®, Downtown Disney® West Side. VIP Preferred Seating is available from 11:00 a.m. through 6:00 p.m. (One certificate per room; not valid with any other offers or discounts.) 
Disney's Miniature Golf certificate – Enjoy one certificate valid for one round of miniature golf (per room) at either Disney's Fantasia or Disney's Winter Summerland Miniature Golf Courses. (One certificate per room, valid for one round of golf. For example: a room with four Guests will receive one certificate which is valid for one person in the party to play one round of miniature golf.) 
Sea Raycers offer – Enjoy 30 extra minutes of watercraft fun when you purchase 60 minutes. Offer is valid for up to five people at participating marina locations. (Restrictions apply; one certificate per room.) 
Disney arcade card – Receive a card valid for 30 minutes at select Walt Disney World Resort hotel arcades. (One card per room. Not available for reservations at the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin Hotel.)


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## Carl D (Feb 18, 2009)

tombo said:


> On Disney's web site I made this fake reservation. It is for a deluxe villa resort. I guess you are foolish enough to think you know better than Disney what deluxe is. Please check any dates you want as I picked the prime week of June 20 to June 27th and got a total of $1931 for 7 days. Take $100 off for the Disney card and you are at $1831. $1831 divided by 7 equals $261.57 a night. That is a deluxe villa in prime summer time. This rate also includes magic your way tickets to Disney. Deduct another $140 a night for 2 free Magic Your way tickets and you are down to $121.57 a night. Who is foolish now?
> 
> This is a copy and paste reservation request from the Disney web site:
> 
> ...


Sorry... You are wrong once again.
For starters you are figuring $70 per day, per person for tickets. That is just not the case when figured over 7 days.
Second, you are quoting a studio??
Third, you are quoting the two least demanded resorts.
Fourth, try booking in July.

The bigger picture... You are looking at a rate published for the next few months, yet comparing that rate to DVC over a 50 year span. Does that really make sense to anyone here??

You have consistently bashed DVC in many threads, but have always been proven wrong.


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## tombo (Feb 19, 2009)

Carl D said:


> Sorry... You are wrong once again.
> For starters you are figuring $70 per day, per person for tickets. That is just not the case when figured over 7 days.
> Second, you are quoting a studio??
> Third, you are quoting the two least demanded resorts.
> ...



When you rent a week from a DVC member you pay regular price for tickets, Disney includes them free. Big plus for disney.  You like to downgrade two "deluxe" resorts that many DVC members own. I am sure that Disney didn't sell them by telling buyers that they were buying resorts no one wanted to stay in.

You seem to think every DVC member can reserve and rent July 4th week. We all know that getting any June, July, or August week when school is out is hard to do, so to act like the week prior to the 4th of July is not a high demand week is ridiculous. With 12 months in a year simple math tells you that most DVC owners will not possibly be able to get a week in one of the 3 most popular months of the year. So yes June 20th to June 27 is very high demand.

When I look at the stock market, home values, my Timeshare rentals rates, and what gasoline costs I do look at today's prices because that is the real world. What the stock market was doing 2 years ago, how much my house was worth 3 years ago, what gasoline cost 30 years ago, and what price I used to rent  rent my timeshare weeks for 2 years ago is irrelevant. All that matters is what you can sell your timeshare for today and what you can rent it for today.

It is a studio, but it is in the same resorts with the same amenities, pools, etc that DVC renters get.Most families spend almost no time in the room on Orlando vacations except to sleep, so most don't care if it is a studio. Plus these rates are advertised on TV, in newspapers, and in magazines constantly by Disney. These are the prices people are conditioned to expect.  People know that they can stay on site with the same access to pools and other amenities that DVC renters get, plus they get $100 gift card, some cheap freebies and discounts, and free tickets  etc that DVC renters can't offer to their renters.

Watch DVC rental listing prices dropping on numerous web sites as more and more weeks go unrented since so many fewer people will be vacationing this summer due to the economy. I hope your optimism rings true because I am trying to rent numerous weeks at various locations myself and would love to have a strong rental market this summer. I am afraid that the reality is that if you keep telling yourself that the rental prices will bring $400 or more a night, you will own a week that sits empty in 2009. Disney knows they have to drop their room prices, give away free tickets, advertise heavily, and work much harder than they have in the past to try and fill their rooms and resorts. DVC members have to face the same realities in this economy.


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## Carl D (Feb 19, 2009)

tombo said:


> When you rent a week from a DVC member you pay regular price for tickets, Disney includes them free. Big plus for disney.  You like to downgrade two "deluxe" resorts that many DVC members own. I am sure that Disney didn't sell them by telling buyers that they were buying resorts no one wanted to stay in.
> 
> You seem to think every DVC member can reserve and rent July 4th week. We all know that getting any June, July, or August week when school is out is hard to do, so to act like the week prior to the 4th of July is not a high demand week is ridiculous. With 12 months in a year simple math tells you that most DVC owners will not possibly be able to get a week in one of the 3 most popular months of the year. So yes June 20th to June 27 is very high demand.
> 
> ...


Okay... Let me explain about the tickets.. 
A one day ticket may be $70. A two day ticket may be $130. A four day may be $180. See the trend here? Once you get up to a seven day ticket, the daily average is much less than $70. (I'm not using actual prices.)

The $400/night room.. You may get a room for significantly less for the next few months during the sale. That said, do you really believe the same sale will be going on for the next 45 years? After the sale is over you will be back to much higher per night rates.

I'm not downgrading any resorts. I happen to value SSR and OKW very highly. That said, it is a factual statement that these two resorts do not fill up as fast as the others and therefore can be offered at a sale price.


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## spiceycat (Feb 19, 2009)

tombo said:


> When you rent a week from a DVC member you pay regular price for tickets, Disney includes them free. Big plus for disney.  You like to downgrade two "deluxe" resorts that many DVC members own. I am sure that Disney didn't sell them by telling buyers that they were buying resorts no one wanted to stay in.
> 
> You seem to think every DVC member can reserve and rent July 4th week. We all know that getting any June, July, or August week when school is out is hard to do, so to act like the week prior to the 4th of July is not a high demand week is ridiculous. With 12 months in a year simple math tells you that most DVC owners will not possibly be able to get a week in one of the 3 most popular months of the year. So yes June 20th to June 27 is very high demand.




okay first - disney NEVER gives away free ticket with 4/3 - you pay for 4 days resort and tickets - then get the next 3 days free. First did this for Pop - then decided to buy at BLT (sold my OKW to do it) - so staying free (got DP) with DVC. Plus with Disney you need to stay the entire 7 days to get the great discount. Work really doesn't allow me (at the time they were offered) to do that. So got what and when I wanted without having to stay longer than I wanted.

Summer is not hard to get with DVC. Now spring weeks - Easter and Palm - definitely Christmas to NY - more Dec weeks, Thanksgiving - can be hard.

but summer no - you can definitely get it at 11 months time. now 7 months trading to another resort - that can be difficult (not hard). 

Disney is selling TH thru SSR - so don't expect DVC to give up on either OKW or SSR at this time.

now back in 1972 you could get the Polyn for $32 (I think) a night. Now that is a bargin. Disney has not had that type of bargins since they started to expand the parks.

members have access to a discount on annual passes - so if you go 20 times to the parks (some go more) - then it $18 per day. that is pretty good - my opinion.

summer is not even consider high demand by II for Orlando anymore - go look at their demand charts. Well most of the summer.


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## tombo (Feb 19, 2009)

spiceycat said:


> okay first - disney NEVER gives away free ticket with 4/3 - you pay for 4 days resort and tickets - then get the next 3 days free. First did this for Pop - then decided to buy at BLT (sold my OKW to do it) - so staying free (got DP) with DVC. Plus with Disney you need to stay the entire 7 days to get the great discount.
> 
> summer is not even consider high demand by II for Orlando anymore - go look at their demand charts. Well most of the summer.



Almost all DVC owners who rent for money, rent a whole week that they have booked. If you are comparing a Disney week with all of the freebies versus a DVC week with no freebies it is a valid comparison. Yes you have to stay 7 days , but most people do go to Orlando for 7 days or more. I am not going all the way to Orlando to stay less than 7 days personally because I have a full day travel time down and a full day back.

Summer is high demand according to II and peak usage in Orlando. Weeks 22-31 (the first week of June through August) are 10 of the top 20 highest demand weeks in the year. They might not be as popular as spring break, but they are more popular than all but 10 out of 52 weeks a year. A top 20 week is a high demand week.

here is the breakout from II - remember easter changes each year
19
13
51
52
10
11
12
14
15
16
25
22
24
26
27
30
23
28
29
31


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## tombo (Feb 19, 2009)

Carl D said:


> Okay... Let me explain about the tickets..
> A one day ticket may be $70. A two day ticket may be $130. A four day may be $180. See the trend here? Once you get up to a seven day ticket, the daily average is much less than $70. (I'm not using actual prices.)
> 
> The $400/night room.. You may get a room for significantly less for the next few months during the sale. That said, do you really believe the same sale will be going on for the next 45 years? After the sale is over you will be back to much higher per night rates.
> ...



I was using $70 per ticket for 2 people as an example. You can actually get 4 Disney Your Way tickets per room. That is very attractive. A family of 4 (2 adults, 2 teenagers) including $100 gift card and 4-7 day Disney your way passes is only $2165.61 in a studio at Old Key West for June 20 to 27th. Deduct $100 for the gift card and it is only $2065.61. 4 adult 7 day Disney your way tickets total $912. $2065.61 minus $912 for four tickets means the week is costing a family of four $1153.61 for lodging.



If you book a 1 bed room it goes to $2705.52 for the week minus $100 gift card is only $2605.52. $2605.52 minus $912 (price of four 7 day Disney Your Way tickets) leaves you only paying $1693.52 for a family of four for a one bed room suite for the week. 

I don't think the prices will remain down for 45 years, but I do expect them to remain down for at least 2 years, if not longer. To use past prices in this economy is simply sticking your head in the sand. People who lose their jobs will let Disney and vacations go before they lose their home or get their power shut off. People will sell their points for anything they can get, and there are less and less buyers out there. Same thing with renting, you keep dropping your price until it finally rents. With your biggest competitor (Disney) having huge sales, the DVC owners will have to do the same or let their weeks sit empty with no income. The minimum you would rent (or sell) your week for last year, and the minimum you will take from a renter (or buyer) this year should be two different figures if you are being realisitic.

Your previous quote:

"I said it before, and I'll say it again.. I don't believe ROFR is setting the market price for DVC. The fact that the resort is attached to a hotel that has hotel rooms for $400/night keeps the price high. 
It wouldn't make sense for a DVC 2br to be valued at $50/night while the hotel has a hotel room for $400/night. The market won't let that happen."

The market is down and so are the prices Disney is charging. Disney isn't giving away free rooms and tickets out of the goodness of their heart, they are doing it because they have no choice. Now that Disney has lost their financing there are only so many weeks they will want to have in their inventory. When they have enough, like Marriott they will lower the price they will ROFR, and like Marriott they might quit exercising ROFR totally. They have already drastically lowered the prices they charge for room/ticket packages.


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## spiceycat (Feb 19, 2009)

tombo said:


> Almost all DVC owners who rent for money, rent a whole week that they have booked. If you are comparing a Disney week with all of the freebies versus a DVC week with no freebies it is a valid comparison. Yes you have to stay 7 days , but most people do go to Orlando for 7 days or more. I am not going all the way to Orlando to stay less than 7 days personally because I have a full day travel time down and a full day back.
> 
> Summer is high demand according to II and peak usage in Orlando. Weeks 22-31 (the first week of June through August) are 10 of the top 20 highest demand weeks in the year. They might not be as popular as spring break, but they are more popular than all but 10 out of 52 weeks a year. A top 20 week is a high demand week.
> 
> ...



sorry as a DVC owner I don't rent for a week....

most DVC owner do not - which is why DVC raised sun-thur and gave us a break on weekends.

if the opposite was happening - this would not have happened.
as a dvc member really like the option to do less days. the older I get the more I need to recover before returning to work. returning on Friday instead of sat or sun - allows me to be fine for work on Monday.

I  did the that link you posted

here are the dates

	Saturday		
	2009	2010	2011
19	9-May	8-May	7-May
13	28-Mar	27-Mar	26-Mar
51	19-Dec	18-Dec	17-Dec
52	26-Dec	25-Dec	24-Dec
10	7-Mar	6-Mar	5-Mar
11	14-Mar	13-Mar	12-Mar
12	21-Mar	20-Mar	19-Mar
14	4-Apr	3-Apr	2-Apr
15	11-Apr	10-Apr	9-Apr
16	18-Apr	17-Apr	16-Apr
25	20-Jul	19-Jul	18-Jul
22	30-May	29-May	28-May
24	13-Jun	12-Jun	11-Jun
26	27-Jun	26-Jun	25-Jun
27	4-Jul	3-Jul	2-Jul
30	25-Jul	24-Jul	23-Jul
23	6-Jun	5-Jun	4-Jun
28	11-Jul	10-Jul	9-Jul
29	18-Jul	17-Jul	16-Jul
31	1-Aug	31-Jul	30-Jul


the summer weeks not on
30
32
33
34
35

the spring break weeks not on
08
09

also the summer weeks were down further on the list - so their demand was definitely less.

also surprised at the summer weeks for the northern fla (including panhandle) beaches - spring break overhelmed everything else for that place. really though summer beach week was great.

now DVC demand is definitely different - you might be able to get a summer week. but to get one while the food/wine festavial is going on is difficult -especially an epcot resort (hoping BLT is added because of the monrail)
another time is Dec - with the points low and the parks not quite as crowded this is definitely a DVC favorite since I have been a member. Christmas decorations are all over the place for the entire month of Dec. plus the christmas shows that all the parks have  - that is only offered in dec (some start late Nov)

so although as a DVC member you don't have to make your reservation exactly at the 11 months for summer weeks.
you definitely better for Dec or food/wine festavial. so some reason (despite II chart) the flower/garden festavial does not bring in DVC members like the food/wine.

although of the two prefer flower/garden.


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## spiceycat (Feb 19, 2009)

tombo said:


> I don't think the prices will remain down for 45 years, but I do expect them to remain down for at least 2 years, if not longer. To use past prices in this economy is simply sticking your head in the sand. People who lose their jobs will let Disney and vacations go before they lose their home or get their power shut off. People will sell their points for anything they can get, and there are less and less buyers out there. Same thing with renting, you keep dropping your price until it finally rents. With your biggest competitor (Disney) having huge sales, the DVC owners will have to do the same or let their weeks sit empty with no income. The minimum you would rent (or sell) your week for last year, and the minimum you will take from a renter (or buyer) this year should be two different figures if you are being realisitic.



I agree with some of what you are saying. really can't believe that Disney actually raise their prices this year. when standing still - like they did in early 2000's would have better way to go. That to me says we are your side (all the disney fans).

now renting not only has direct competition with Disney - but this year and last year - DVC gave away a bunch of developer points. Since these were basically an extra free thing. some members don't mind renting these things for far less than the normal $10 to $12 per point. These are different than normal points - they are at WDW only for SSR. they can be used with RCI and they can be used at DL.

that say the big renters - are still renting at $16 a point and seem to be during just fine.

believe it or not - unless you know to go for the 4/3 - link on Disney site.

some people are still just hiting the reservations and paying full price.
so yes some are paying full price even now.

with Marriott - well Marriott did not use their ROFR for many, many years - it was only when Marriott noticed that DVC was using their to kept the DVC prices up (not necessary on the epcot or mk dvc resorts - those go for whatever the market will bear - and that is one reason why DVC increased their prices)

so Marriott started to use their ROFR - before then you get a wonderful week in Cypress Harbour for $2,000 - a couple of people here did that.
Until then Marriott did not even care about resales.


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## tombo (Feb 19, 2009)

Not a big thing but week 30 is on the list too. As I stated weeks 22 through 31 are the prime summer weeks and these are 10 of the 20 most popular weeks every year. Also the week 25 reservation example I used is June 20th through June 27th (the II has the wrong month listed for week 25). This is the 11th most popular week of the year according to II, so my example week is the most popular summer week.

DVC will probably always rent well, and it will rent at higher prices than almost any timeshare anywhere. The DVC points will also sell for good prices whether Disney ROFR's or not (until contracts start getting close to ending, then prices should really drop). I am simply stating the obvious. In this economy if you rent your points for what you did 2 years ago consider yourself fortunate. If you can sell your membership for close to what it would have brought last year, you are very, very lucky. When people make statements saying Disney is always going to rent (or sell) for X dollars per point no matter what the economy is doing, I have to disagree. The fact that Disney has started giving away free rooms and tickets means that Disney doesn't think that they could rent their resorts for the same prices they charged last year either.


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## spiceycat (Feb 19, 2009)

tombo said:


> I am simply stating the obvious. In this economy if you rent your points for what you did 2 years ago consider yourself fortunate. If you can sell your membership for close to what it would have brought last year, you are very, very lucky.



this is funny.

before DVC say the DVC points were worth $10 - that is what they gave us for them. the renting was at $8 per point.

since then it has been between $10 and $12 for most of the member. now some members have a heck of alot more money than I do - they can rent for $16 a point - because they have friends, employees, professional that they know and will rent from them.

$10 to $12 for at least 9 years. renting DVC points is a bargin even with the increase in points needed.

of course now that both OKW and SSR can be had for $159 a night - annual pass discount. that will definitely work upon us trying to rent SSR - the only one you can for DP.


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## JCerniglow (Feb 20, 2009)

When we purchased DVC, we quickly learned the intangible benefits of having a larger unit that was more of a home experience greatly outweighed any line item, economic analysis.  Though everyone says that you dont spend much time in the room, the older I get the more creature comforts that I am not willing to do without.  I love my washer dryer and extra space.  Welcome Home.

You could argue that eating fast food every day is cheaper than eating at Mortons.  I just need a fine experience at a restaurant once ina while even if I can get something cheaper somewhere else.:whoopie:


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