# Po'ipu Point Subdivision Announcement [merged]



## Poobah

Just got the email from DRI that work on the housing subdivision on Makahu'ena Point is going to start in September. Some of the homes will be in front of the P@P. The email tries to down play the impact on the resort, but for the lower ocean side units in Buildings 3 and 4 there is an impact: the view will be roof top fence view instead of ocean view or partial ocean view.

It sounds like starting in September the area will be fenced in and if they cover the fence the view is not going to be much. The plan calls for 12 ocean front units and 2 luxury single family homes. 

Every time we have been at the resort I have asked about this development and was always told that there was nothing going on, but DRI was watching it closely. Sounds to me DRI got caught with its pants down!

Of course it really isn't a 'DRI problem" anymore; it is Global's problem now. Hopefully they will be aggressive in pursing this because the value of P@P is going to go down.

What amazes me is that the Kaua'i County Council would ever approve such a development on Makauh'ena Point. I can't see how it would ever pass an environmental study, if one were ever done. 

Need to nose around and see if I can find the plat. 

Cheers,

Paul


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## wilma

*Point at Poipu/Makahuena development*

Ugh....

The Point at Poipu Subdivision Announcement

Dear Owners and Members, 

We hope you are enjoying your summer and have had the opportunity to enjoy some well‑deserved vacation time at The Point at Poipu. 

We are writing to you regarding your upcoming reservation at The Point at Poipu Resort as we have been made aware of and continue to monitor a new subdivision that is planned near our resort. At this time, we do not believe that this will impact your vacation experience with us, but we did want to let you know of the work before you arrive. 

The Makahuena property was conveyed to the United States government in 1907. The current developer CIRI, a for‑profit corporation to benefit Alaska Natives purchased the site from the federal government in 1996. Diamond (or the Association) has never owned this land, and it was never a part of Poipu Resort. The owner of this 13‑acre parcel plans on preparing the site for eight waterfront and two interior luxury single family homes, to be sold in the future. 

CIRI has advised that the project is scheduled to begin in September 2016. For the first three months, the project will consist of basic site work including fencing and establishing staging areas. The work will continue in January 2017 starting with grading and re‑vegetating to stabilize the soil. CIRI is only allowed to do major construction work from January 1 to March 31, so not to disturb the migration cycle of the Wedge Tailed Shearwater bird. According to CIRI, a significant amount of analysis has been put into the positioning of the lots, building set back, and space requirements so there is a minimal impact to the view. The developer has conducted an environmental assessment, as well as cultural, soil, archaeological and engineering studies. 

We want to assure you that your vacation experience continues to be our highest priority and we are doing our due diligence to ensure that we are well informed of all the plans for this subdivision. We are meeting with the project developer on a regular basis to evaluate the impact on our resort, its owners, members, and guests. At this time we believe this to be minimal, and therefore, please do not change your plans to visit us, but we will continue to monitor the situation, and keep you informed if anything changes. 

If you have additional questions, please send them to PoipuInfo@DiamondResorts.com. We will respond to your inquiries as soon as possible. 

Sincerely, 
Homeowners Association Management


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## Poobah

*News Article*

This was in the Garden Island News: 

http://thegardenisland.com/business...cle_a14b5dfa-7dfc-5aec-a228-7f39cdbd3939.html 

The article was dated January 31, 2016. I asked my question on the status last March, 2016 and was told nothing is happening1

Was anything said about this at the HOA meeting last February?

Cheers,

Paul


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## DeniseM

It is amazing that the lot stayed empty as long as it did.


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## artringwald

In the map I saw, which I can't find now, the development will not go past the U shaped green area in Denise's map. It should not block the ocean view of the P@P units on that side because the hill with the beacon is too high to see over.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

artringwald said:


> In the map I saw, which I can't find now, the development will not go past the U shaped green area in Denise's map. It should not block the ocean view of the P@P units on that side because the hill with the beacon is too high to see over.


That would make sense and would be consistent with other land use decisions in the area  and would also protect the Shearwater nesting areas.

Sounds as if the units most impacted will be the units on the west side of building 3.  Those units have been the best values at the Point at Poipu, because they are classed as ocean view units, even though they have an unobstructed view of the ocean.  If the development proceeds as described above, those units will truly be ocean view instead of virtual ocean front.


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## wilma

The map here shows that three oceanfront buildings will be affected:

http://makahuenaland.com/


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## singlemalt_18

wilma said:


> The map here shows that three oceanfront buildings will be affected:
> 
> http://makahuenaland.com/



That is a very disappointing plan... very sad as we have great memories walking and hiking that entire area. It was the seclusion that made it so special. No doubt the homes built there will fetch astronomical prices, as it is truly one of the most special places on the entire planet; from the USCG navigational marker the sun both rises and sets on the water. There are not many places that offer that.


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## wilma

singlemalt_18 said:


> That is a very disappointing plan... very sad as we have great memories walking and hiking that entire area. It was the seclusion that made it so special. No doubt the homes built there will fetch astronomical prices, as it is truly one of the most special places on the entire planet; from the USCG navigational marker the sun both rises and sets on the water. There are not many places that offer that.



Yes, and many of the locals walk through here and they will be very unhappy to lose access. The weasel sales guy at Poipu (then Embassy) claimed the land was set aside as open space and could not be developed. This lie was said to us in 1998 after the land had been sold.


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## artringwald

wilma said:


> The map here shows that three oceanfront buildings will be affected:
> 
> http://makahuenaland.com/



That is not the map I saw before. The other map had smaller lots, and did not include the land now taken by lots 1-4. I'll be very unhappy if we can't get access to the beacon. We've watched many green flashes and beautiful sunsets from that location.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

artringwald said:


> That is not the map I saw before. The other map had smaller lots, and did not include the land now taken by lots 1-4. I'll be very unhappy if we can't get access to the beacon. We've watched many green flashes and beautiful sunsets from that location.



Last week we were sitting on the lanai of our unit watching Honu swimming in the cove in front of lot two.


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## Poobah

*Plat Map*

It looks to me that the marketing piece Wilma posted is our worse nightmare! Not only will there be houses but there is obviously a road between the houses and P@P.

The part that puzzles me is that the construction is limited to Jan-March because of Shearwater nesting, but when the construction is completed what happens to the Shearwater nesting environment? It doesn't make sense.

I could understand the plat that Art has seen without Lots 1-4, because that does make sense; there would be a nesting area. Not to mention minimal impact on P@P.

I can't believe that this passed any kind of environmental audit given Kaua'i's sensitivity to environmental issues and the shore line. It was my understanding that there are lava tubes under the area where the other lots are and it was basically unbuildable. 

There has to be an official plat on file with the County for the building permits. Have to nose around and see what I can find on-line.

DRI/Global needs to get actively engaged here, which it seems they have not been.


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## wilma

Poobah said:


> I could understand the plat that Art has seen without Lots 1-4, because that does make sense; there would be a nesting area. Not to mention minimal impact on Pop
> 
> DRI/Global needs to get actively engaged here, which it seems they have not been.



Would love to see Art's plat without 1-4.

Why would Diamond/global care about owners?


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## artringwald

wilma said:


> Would love to see Art's plat without 1-4.
> 
> Why would Diamond/global care about owners?



The view from the sales room will not be affected.


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## artringwald

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Last week we were sitting on the lanai of our unit watching Honu swimming in the cove in front of lot two.



We were watching Honu at the same spot last week. Now we're over on Maui at the KBC.


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## artringwald

Here's two pictures I took last week. Neither spot will be accessible after development.

This one was from lot 8.






And this from lot 6.


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## DebBrown

How disappointing!  Not owners but this is my favorite Kauai resort.  

Deb


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## pedro47

wilma said:


> The map here shows that three oceanfront buildings will be affected:
> 
> http://makahuenaland.com/



I wonder will DRI reduce the weekly point value at this resort, after the construction project is completed?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

pedro47 said:


> I wonder will DRI reduce the weekly point value at this resort, after the construction project is completed?



Yeah - an interesting question.  Though the documents that I have with my deed explicitly lay out which units are ocean view, ocean front, partial ocean view, and garden view  What happens when an ocean front unit no longer qualifies as ocean front?  Do the original declarations stand? If so, what does DRI do when an elite member books an ocean front unit that isn't an ocean front unit, and then complains?

I suspect that there is going to be an increase in Points values for ocean front units. Which would make my grandfathered float-float deed a lot more valuable.


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## wilma

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> I suspect that there is going to be an increase in Points values for ocean front units. Which would make my grandfathered float-float deed a *lot more valuable*.




What is their value now? For the last few years after the special assessment and extensive  construction, they have had no value and most ebay auctions go unsold. People are still giving away their weeks so you're hoping that after the dust settles from this new construction project that they may be worth $1000?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

wilma said:


> What is their value now? For the last few years after the special assessment and extensive  construction, they have had no value and most ebay auctions go unsold. People are still giving away their weeks so you're hoping that after the dust settles from this new construction project that they may be worth $1000?



More "valuable" inside the DRI system.  I can use my 10,000 point value deeded week to reserve any available unit at Poipu.  So I use it to book ocean front (15,500 point value).  If DRI were to make ocean front units cost 20,000 points, I would be gettting 20,000 points value from my 10,000 point unit. 

On the open market, who knows if they will have value?  Prior to the water intrusion float-float deeded weeks typically sold for $1000 to $2000. With the water intrusion out of the way, that float-float week might again generate some value, particularly since it would be a cost-effective way to get ocean front at Point at Poipu.


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## daventrina

What happens when ocean front isn't???
Does that her listed as driveway view?

DRI really needs to get together with local organizations and put an end to this like and Honolua Bay with ML&P!


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## daventrina

Poobah said:


> The part that puzzles me is that the construction is limited to Jan-March because of Shearwater nesting, but when the construction is completed what happens to the Shearwater nesting environment? It doesn't make sense.
> 
> I can't believe that this passed any kind of environmental audit given Kaua'i's sensitivity to environmental issues and the shore line. It was my understanding that there are lava tubes under the area where the other lots are and it was basically unbuildable.
> 
> There has to be an official plat on file with the County for the building permits. Have to nose around and see what I can find on-line.
> 
> DRI/Global needs to get actively engaged here, which it seems they have not been.


Right ? How can they destroy the entire breading area?

If you noticed ... The developer did the EIR!


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## Poobah

*Plat*

I got on the Kaua'i County website, but I can't seem to get anywhere unless I have the building permit number. 

Anybody else try?

Will try and call this week and see if I can get the permit number.

Cheers,

Paul


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## wilma

I tried looking up the permit for 1645 Pee Rd but none was listed on the county permit site.


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## artringwald

Here's the cultural impact assessment:

https://www.academia.edu/4923646/CIA_for_Makahuena

I like this part:



> Although there are no valued cultural or traditional resources within the project area based on background research and interviews, future development of the property has the potential to adversely affect the exercise of traditional practices for subsistence related marine exploitation. This adverse effect can be mitigated by including *explicit plans to ensure, and potentially enhance, access to the shoreline*.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

daventrina said:


> If you noticed ... The developer did the EIR!


That's actually the norm.  Only in the most significant projects does a government agency do the EIR.

Note that an EIR is only an informational document.  Agencies may or may not use it for decision-making.  When an applicant applies for a permit the issuing makes it's only review of information provided, and may request additional information than is in the EIR, and may require additional mitigation measures beyond what is proposed in the EIR.  Or deny the project entirely if the measures proposed in the EIR are deemed inadequate and the applicant doesn't propose alternatives that will pass muster.


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## post-it

If no more Ocean Views everyone might as well book garden views and save the points.


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## wilma

I sent an email to the PoipuInfo email in the letter to the owners asking for the permit info and map. I was directed to the same website I previously mentioned with the 10 lots:

https://www.cbredealflow.com/handle...vHL1SGdbDDx1_6TXqAA0Zy7Ry1yaIKB93YXX39WJUn7pI


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## artringwald

*Balancing Act*

It's a couple of weeks old, but I just found this article from The Garden Island newspaper. If they stay true to their promised intentions, I'll be a happy camper. I love watching sunsets from the beacon, waves crashing through the sea arch, spouts of mist coming up from the mini blow hole, and turtles swimming in the cove. None of those would be possible if shoreline access was blocked.

Balancing Act by Darin Moriki - The Garden Island



> A public access path, according to plans, would be provided along the periphery of the property and accessed by a public parking area along Pee Road. The private homes, meanwhile, would be separated from the public access area by a rock retaining wall.
> 
> “It is intended that there is going to be no development makai of the wall, and the intent is to provide access to the shoreline, so there is no intention to block people from accessing the shoreline,” Tom Schnell, principal and planner at Honolulu-based planning firm PBR Hawaii and Associates, Inc.


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## artringwald

*Makahuena Point Subdivision*

There's an updated sales brochure that gives a better idea of what they want to do with the land.

Makahuena Point Subdivision


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## pedro47

artringwald said:


> Here's the cultural impact assessment:
> 
> https://www.academia.edu/4923646/CIA_for_Makahuena
> 
> I like this part:



Is the cultural impact assessment like wet land projects in the United States?    If you have the right kind of money in today's economy ;wetlands areas or cultural impact assessment does not mean anything any more. Flash the million dollars to right people and you can build.


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## Poobah

*Po'ipu Point*

This makes me ill! I still find it hard to believe that the County of Kaua'i would let this land be developed. 

Maybe the strategy should be for our new owners to just buy the lots in front of Bldgs 4 and 6 and leave them undeveloped or make them into a private park for the resort.

Since they are appealing to the "rich and famous" you know these homes are not going to be one story, three bedroom ramblers. They are going to build up so potentially even the second floor units could have very little ocean view.

I am sure it will be several years before there will be any meaningful home construction on the point, so we can enjoy it while it lasts.

The next HOA meeting is going to be real interesting!!!!

Cheers,

Paul


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## wilma

According to a facebook diamond owners group and tripadvisor, the POP has now put up 10-12 ft high dust fencing along the perimeter and begun construction. One person on facebook says they have been dynamiting every day at 4 pm and the construction goes from 6 am until dark. Most oceanviews along this side of the resort have construction views.


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## clifffaith

Already fretting about our Jan 2018 reservation at Poipu. I'm hoping our wait list comes through at Worldmark Kapaa.


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## artringwald

We'll be there next month. I'll share plenty of pictures.


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## pedro47

Commercial zoning in Hawaii must be easy to approve this project from the environmental standards in our state.


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## artringwald

As promised, I took a bunch of pictures of the construction site. The wall is impressive, up to 8' high in spots. The good news is that you can still walk up to the beacon without going through the construction site, although for now, you can only access it from the east end near building 6. I wouldn't recommend walking near there while they're dynamiting. We're staying in 6-305, and our view of the ocean really isn't impeded, but lower floors may not see much of anything except the dust screen. Here's a link to 23 pictures.

https://artringwald.smugmug.com/Travel/Makahuena-Point-Subdivision/

Here's the view from one side of our lanai:


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## pedro47

Thanks for sharing your photos. That commercial  project developer is going to spend some big bucks to improve and enchane that plot of land for construction (that is my prediction).


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## artringwald

What a difference a day makes! They took down the dust fence.


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## wilma

artringwald said:


> What a difference a day makes! They took down the dust fence.


Thanks for the pics. How is the noise?


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## artringwald

wilma said:


> Thanks for the pics. How is the noise?


Not bad at all yesterday.  Today Woody the Rock Pecker is busy up on the hill, but the worst is the backup beepers on the trucks. Along with the crashing of the waves, and the breezes blowing, I think it makes an interesting symphony of sounds... except when you're trying to take a nap.


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## pedro47

When will this construction project be completely  finished?


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## artringwald

pedro47 said:


> When will this construction project be completely  finished?



According to the CIRI web site:

The bulk of the work will involve grading the site to make the lots buildable, along with installation of numerous rock retaining and privacy walls. This work will take place Jan. 1–March 31, 2017, to accommodate the breeding season of migratory shorebirds (April 1–Dec. 31), when no ground disturbance construction may take place in close proximity to their underground nests. That leaves a narrow three-month window in which to accomplish the majority of the work. The actual roadway improvements and utilities for the project will be finished just prior to the expected June 2017 completion date.


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## pedro47

Will this be the first construction project to be completed on time. What are the betting  odds against them completing the majority of the work on time? They will have to work at least 12 hours day to complete this project between Jan. 1 - March 31, 2017.
Did the contractor or developer tell the migratory shorebirds that there are going to be some changes after this project is completed. Just joking.


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## pedro47

The project states they are going to build ten luxury homes at this project sites. Lots 1 - 6 will directly have impact on the resort views. What will be the median price for the homes at this project site ?


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## artringwald

pedro47 said:


> Will this be the first construction project to be completed on time. What are the betting  odds against them completing the majority of the work on time? They will have to work at least 12 hours day to complete this project between Jan. 1 - March 31, 2017.



They've made quite a bit of progress just in the 3 days since we got here. They work from 7 to 5, 6 days a week. I'll take some more pictures before we leave.


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## artringwald

pedro47 said:


> The project states they are going to build ten luxury homes at this project sites. Lots 1 - 6 will directly have impact on the resort views. What will be the median price for the homes at this project site ?



Any guesses? I'll guess $3M for the land and $2M for the house. I'm also guessing 10 years before the first 70% are built.


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## pedro47

artringwald said:


> Any guesses? I'll guess $3M for the land and $2M for the house. I'm also guessing 10 years before the first 70% are built.



Thanks for the update information. My prediction: Once the first two (2) ocean front lots  / homes are sold and build. I bet the other lots will be sold in less than five years.


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## artringwald

The workers will get off today:


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## artringwald

They make quite a bit of progress in the 2 weeks while we were there:


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## artringwald

pedro47 said:


> Thanks for the update information. My prediction: Once the first two (2) ocean front lots  / homes are sold and build. I bet the other lots will be sold in less than five years.


If your prediction is closer than mine, I'll buy you a mai tai at the poolside bar.


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## artringwald

I added the last of the pictures I took while we were staying in building 6 in February.

https://artringwald.smugmug.com/Travel/Makahuena-Point-Subdivision/

This one was just before we left:


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## artringwald

Interesting points of view in the The Garden Island newspaper's letters to the editor.



> Posted: Tuesday, April 18, 2017
> *Too much development hurting Kauai*
> I have been coming to Poipu for 20 years and have always enjoyed the views offered while we stay at our timeshare, The Point at Poipu. Now you allow us to look onto some rich peoples’ houses instead of seeing the beautiful ocean. What you do for profit is disgusting. We don’t need additional development on this island. I really feel sorry for the locals and how they are consistently losing the island they love.
> Jim Martin, Long Beach, Calif.



*
*


> Posted: Sunday, April 23, 2017
> *Whining doesn’t change reality*
> I understand Jim Martin’s sadness expressed in his letter published Tuesday, April 18. But if he assumed the private owners of the Makahuena Point land mauka of Pe’e Road would never be able to develop the land, he was naive.
> In the early 1990s, every one of the 72 units at Poipu Sands had 25 to 120 degrees of open ocean vistas. Many of the owners had been told by their real estate agents — incorrectly as it turned out — that the land south of Poipu Sands could never be developed. As president of Poipu Sands starting in the early 1990s, we had to deal with and watch as Mr. Martin’s condominium (The Point at Poipu) was built directly south of Poipu Sands, totally eliminating ocean views from inside over half the Poipu Sands units, and reducing the view planes to about 10 degrees to 30 degrees for most of the rest of the units.
> Reality required our owners to just get over it, and move on. That is my suggestion to Mr. Martin who, as a one- or two-week timeshare owner on Kauai who has enjoyed a large ocean view for 20 years … get over it. Whining is non-productive … that is my learned and experienced opinion.
> Vince Jones, Koloa


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## artringwald

Now that the initial construction at Makahū‛ena Estates is done, the view from Building 3 isn't bad. You can still sit in the adult hot tub and see whales.


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## artringwald

Here's an arial view:


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## pedro47

Thanks for sharing your photos of this property.


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## youppi

artringwald said:


> Now that the initial construction at Makahū‛ena Estates is done, the view from Building 3 isn't bad. You can still sit in the adult hot tub and see whales.


but your picture is not from the spa ? It looks like more from unit 203.
This is 2 pictures from unit 202 (Garden view)


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## artringwald

youppi said:


> but your picture is not from the spa ? It looks like more from unit 203.



You are correct. The picture was from 3-203. Here's one from the adult hot tub. The wall seems to be a popular place for sunrise groupies and whale watchers.


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## artringwald

Still nothing happening inside the Great Wall of Poipu, except they dropped the price for all 10 lots from $20M to $10M.


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## pedro47

Thanks for sharing your latest photo and that deep price drop change.
IMO, if these 10 lots are not sold by July 2020 look for another drop in price.


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## pedro47

This thread started August 2016 and not one lot has been developed.
Why ? COSTS OF Land , Cost to develop a subdivision OR LOCATION ?
.


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## artringwald

pedro47 said:


> This thread started August 2016 and not one lot has been developed.
> Why ? COSTS OF Land , Cost to develop a subdivision OR LOCATION ?
> .


At the Meet The Manager meeting, Jamie talked about the development. She suspects that it would be a bad place for a house because the crashing waves blow up so much salt mist. There were certainly some big waves crashing yesterday. After walking around the wall, my glasses were covered in salt spray. Even if I was rich, I wouldn't want to build there because of all people walking around the wall and looking down from the timeshare and condo properties.


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## pedro47

Thanks for your fast response,  maybe the land will be donate to the State of Hawaii  as a national park.


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## DebBrown

We were just there.  People in the ground floor units don't have much of a view now but, otherwise, all is peaceful.  Let's hope it stays that way.


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## geist1223

Isn't this plot of land currently owned by a Native Alaskan Tribe. Wonder how big of a bath they are going to take?


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