# Newbie - Need to know where to start



## Milenkod (Aug 9, 2018)

Hi all,  I recently came back from Vegas where we attended a Wydham Worldmark resort presentation.  The resort was 5/10min outside of the strip.  Lovely resort and we fell in love.

However, the timing and cost was not in the cards for us.  Being previous Timeshare owners, I know there are better deals to be had than retail at the presentation.  

Nonetheless, Im confused between what is Worldmark and what is Wyndham???  Are these different TS products?  What they presented on was packages in the 24,000 points, 12,000 points and 5,000 "starter" point packages....all packages were offered with double points if we "bought today".  They presented a 3 BR condo for 7,000 points for a week but the main fees were a turn-off.

Anyways, been reading a bit here and there are a lot of terms that I don't understand.  Some help?


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## bbodb1 (Aug 9, 2018)

One quick suggested resource: https://www.clubwyndham.com/cw/resorts.page

As you drill into the map, you will see WorldMark and Wyndham locations.  WorldMark has a heavier presence in the western U.S. while Wyndham is more common in the eastern U.S. 
That resource is not the end all / be all definition of the difference between the two but learning where resorts are located certainly helps.


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## uscav8r (Aug 9, 2018)

WorldMark is the Club. WorldMark by Wyndham is the developer and manager for the Club. WorldMark uses credits, not points, to book resorts, etc. 

Club Wyndham is a completely separate timeshare system that uses points. 

We can’t guess the terms that cause you confusion. Perhaps share them so we can help. 


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## rhonda (Aug 9, 2018)

Yes, Worldmark the Club (WM) and Wyndham (of various product names) are different TS products.  However, Wyndham is also the developer (builder and property/club manager) for Worldmark.  The number of credits you mention (24k, 12k and 5k "starter") are each appropriate in the Worldmark discussion.  However, showing you a 3BR Condo while at Las Vegas for 7k credits was rather inappropriate.  A 3BR condo generally starts at 12k WM credits for one week, in high season, and goes up from there.  I hope they set context on the 7k credit 3BR by explaining that was only in the least desirable season (summer in the desert? winter in the plains?) and showing you which resort location and dates were available at that rate?  (Rather deceiving ...)

For grins, a 3BR in northern Idaho between Oct 28-Nov 24 (2019) will run just 6000 WM credits.  What a bargain week!

A better map of Worldmark locations is located:  https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/
As you drill down by state, look only at the RED dots for "in network" Worldmark locations.  All the others (affiliate, Wyndham Club Pass, etc) are there to confuse you and make you think, "I'd better purchase from the developer to get _all_ these locations."  If you purchase WM resale you will have access only to the locations with the red dots, Worldmark the Club locations. 

So, from here ... what are your questions?


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## Milenkod (Aug 10, 2018)

uscav8r said:


> WorldMark is the Club. WorldMark by Wyndham is the developer and manager for the Club. WorldMark uses credits, not points, to book resorts, etc.
> 
> Club Wyndham is a completely separate timeshare system that uses points.
> 
> ...


Yes...”credits” was the exchange units that they referred to. The presentation had a nice interactive touchscreen virtual tour of the 200+ resorts across the US and a few more internationally. I suppose those are the resorts within the worldmark club, natively. the presenter did sell us on the fact they now own RCI and we could trade into any RCI resort for $249 fee + credits. This all sound familiar?


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## Milenkod (Aug 10, 2018)

rhonda said:


> Yes, Worldmark the Club (WM) and Wyndham (of various product names) are different TS products.  However, Wyndham is also the developer (builder and property/club manager) for Worldmark.  The number of credits you mention (24k, 12k and 5k "starter") are each appropriate in the Worldmark discussion.  However, showing you a 3BR Condo while at Las Vegas for 7k credits was rather inappropriate.  A 3BR condo generally starts at 12k WM credits for one week, in high season, and goes up from there.  I hope they set context on the 7k credit 3BR by explaining that was only in the least desirable season (summer in the desert? winter in the plains?) and showing you which resort location and dates were available at that rate?  (Rather deceiving ...)
> 
> For grins, a 3BR in northern Idaho between Oct 28-Nov 24 (2019) will run just 6000 WM credits.  What a bargain week!
> 
> ...


Ok. I did read somewhere on reddit if you buy on the secondary market or resale, you’re blocked from the full product. Not sure what I would be precluded from in this case...is that is true?

I also read about “house keeping credits”. Not sure if that applies to this TS product or what that exactly means.

Maint fees...are these based on the fees set for each resort? I’m assuming that an older or established resort would have lower fees than a new resort. Why wouldn’t someone search/buy into a resort with low maint fees...? Does it matter what resort I buy into? Am I missing something on this strategy?

Lastly,  the presenter never mentioned/discussed/informed us that there were “red” periods or seasons where the credit cost vary. If that’s correct, this would be a gross oversight not to metiion.


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## uscav8r (Aug 10, 2018)

Milenkod said:


> Ok. I did read somewhere on reddit if you buy on the secondary market or resale, you’re blocked from the full product. Not sure what I would be precluded from in this case...is that is true?
> 
> I also read about “house keeping credits”. Not sure if that applies to this TS product or what that exactly means.
> 
> ...



I would stay away from sites like Reddit for specific info and rely on this site and TUG for more accurate info. 

Resale credits in WM have the exact same capability to book WM resorts as developer credits. The only thing you miss out on are developer-provided perks such as included access to RCI, access to Club Wyndham via the Club Pass feature, ability to use credits for airlines and cruises, and a couple other things. 

The thing is, you can still do all these other things for much cheaper when you consider that developer credits cost at least $2.00 per credit while resale cost about $0.25-0.35 per credit, AND the developer TravelShare program has extra fees on top of the regular membership dues. 

You can get your own RCI membership for less than $99 per year. You can rent from a Club Wyndham member, who can book up to 4 months earlier than you can in Club Pass. The exchange rate for airlines and cruises is about 2.5 cents per credits. Your maintenance dues are AT LEAST 8.5 cents per credit so you do the (losing) math. You can rent out those same credits to other owners for 7-8 cents per credit and use cash for your airlines and cruises. 

So many more reasons NOT to buy directly from Wyndham. 

As to your MF question, there are no resort-specific dues in WM. It is one rate for the whole system since you’re don’t have a home resort. The MF rate is tiered, based on how many credits you own. It steps up every 2500 credits, so a 12k account costs the same dues as a 10k account. 

Since you only can buy 1000 credit increments, the most cost-efficient breaks are every 5k, so buy 10k, 15k, 20k, etc. However, you are only allotted one housekeeping token for each 10k you own, so in that vein, it is best to own 10k, 20k, etc., if you can afford it. 

There are somewhat rare resale contracts called grandfathered NHK (no housekeeping) accounts. These carry a $12-14k premium over regular resale but could be financially worth it in the long run since they maintain their value and are still MUCH cheaper than developer credits. 


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## rhonda (Aug 10, 2018)

re: number of locations?
WM has somewhere around 90 properties in the core Worldmark The Club network (available via resale).  The product that the Developer sells is Worldmark with TravelShare.  Travelshare, available only through the developer, adds access to a number of affiliate properties/clubs such as Worldmark South Pacific and Wyndham Club Pass.

re: lower Maint Fees at an older resort?
Worldmark does not use a "home resort" system.  Owning WM is like holding shares of stocks: you own credits representing the whole system.  All WM owners pay Maint Fees from the same tiered structure based on number of credits owned.

re: Housekeeping
Yes, WM accounts will pay a housekeeping fee for each 'turn' (check-out) based on the unit size.  Each WM account receives one or more housekeeping tokens every year based on the total number of credits owned to cover the first reservation(s) of that same year.  You will pay out of pocket after you've fully consumed your current (and banked) housekeeping tokens.  The system was designed to cover those who book full week reservations but charge those who use their credits for many short stays.

re: Seasons, credit values per stay
Do visit the map I referred to in my earlier post.  Drill down to several individual resort pages and compare them carefully.  The credit chart is listed near the bottom of each resort page.  Most resorts will have 3 seasons (Red/White/Blue = High/Med/Low); the number of credits required for each stay correspond to the season.  Some, especially coastal locations, are "red season" year round.  Use these charts to determine how many credits you'll either require or 'want.' 

Reservation rules also apply to different seasons:  If booking a red season reservation more than 10 months from travel, you must book a minimum of 7 nights (exceptions available if fewer than 7 nights are available).

Good questions ... glad you are doing your research!


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## rhonda (Aug 10, 2018)

Milenkod said:


> *the presenter did sell us on the fact they now own RCI *and we could trade into any RCI resort for $249 fee + credits.


Sales-speak.  FWIW, Wyndham (the developer) does own RCI as a division but that is practically ancient history.  If you were to purchase 'Worldmark with Travelshare' from the developer, TravelShare includes RCI access through their corporate subscription (RCI Points and RCI Weeks).

As @uscav8r mentioned, WM owners are invited to subscribe to RCI Weeks as _individual_ account holders.  You will pay an annual subscription/membership fee but, as stated earlier, will yet save money over buying full freight. 

Personal opinion on RCI Points vs RCI Weeks:  I tried RCI Points when it was first offered to WM owners (c2004?).  I cancelled soon after receiving and reviewing the materials.  I found the RCI Points system burdened in extra fees (more housekeeping charges!) that were now set at the destination resort layer and not managed by either my timeshare (WM) or my exchange company (RCI).  I also considered my anticipated travel patterns between "drive-to" destinations vs "fly-to" locations:  I have and will use Worldmark for "nightly stays" in "drive-to" locations; I am OK with "weekly stays" for "fly-to" locations. Thus, I didn't feel I'd be missing out for nightly stays by cancelling RCI Points.  Don't need it.


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## breezez (Aug 10, 2018)

Wyndham - The developer has 7 different TS programs under their umbrella. When you buy a developer package in 1 system they will give you access to the other systems via what they call club pass.  But this is after people in each of those systems have had months of priority booking time.

Wyndham shows you all this great access, it’s true you have good access but at the same time to get into those you will pay $99 internal exchange fee and have much narrower window for booking.  You can only book these over the phone and can’t see availability online.  This doesn’t mean you can never get those resorts, but rather means don’t plan on getting them in peak demand times.  Plus you may find you can book into these less than desireable times with RCI for less.

So to sum it up buy into the resort system that makes most sense to you and where you like to go.

I have both WM and Wyndham and use them both.  I live on east cost and Wyndham has more stuff this way.  I prefer to vacation out west and WM has more access out there.  Personally I find WM is a much more flexible program but in the world of timeshares what’s true today will not tomorrow,  So in a few years my opinion might change.

They do another thing to make number of resorts seem larger also.   As they took over as developer for other programs and get stuff back from ovations They add rooms at say a WM resort to Club Wyndham then call it say Steamboat Springs, CO Wyndham.   The only issue is there may be very limited rooms at resort for Wyndham but woola they get to beat their chest and tell you they gave your club a new resort.   What they neglect to tell you is WorldMark and Wyndham Steamboat Springs are actually same resort but with different rooms belonging to different programs.   But when they tell you their are 200 plus properties many are double counted like this for that number.


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## Milenkod (Aug 10, 2018)

rhonda said:


> re: lower Maint Fees at an older resort?
> Worldmark does not use a "home resort" system.  Owning WM is like holding shares of stocks: you own credits representing the whole system.  All WM owners pay Maint Fees from the same tiered structure based on number of credits owned.


OK...that makes sense why the larger Credit options had more maint fee costs. 



rhonda said:


> re: Housekeeping
> Yes, WM accounts will pay a housekeeping fee for each 'turn' (check-out) based on the unit size.  Each WM account receives one or more housekeeping tokens every year based on the total number of credits owned to cover the first reservation(s) of that same year.  You will pay out of pocket after you've fully consumed your current (and banked) housekeeping tokens.  The system was designed to cover those who book full week reservations but charge those who use their credits for many short stays.


 yet another important detail that wasn't covered.  So you only get 1 or 2 HK credits annually?  How much are they out of pocket and does that also count on Bonus Time?



rhonda said:


> re: Seasons, credit values per stay
> Reservation rules also apply to different seasons:  If booking a red season reservation more than 10 months from travel, you must book a minimum of 7 nights (exceptions available if fewer than 7 nights are available).
> 
> Good questions ... glad you are doing your research!


Glad I didn't cave and buy retail...I specifically asked the sales rep about the lead-time to get a reservation.  He responded with a scenario that he called reservations a week before and they were able to book him a discounted room instead.  So, he never answered my questions and alluded that you can call anytime to get a reservation set-up.


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## geist1223 (Aug 10, 2018)

In WM you get 1 HKC from 1 Point to 19,999 Points. At 20,000 you get a second HKC and then 1 for every 10,000 additional Points over 20,000. So at 29,999 you still only get 2 HKC BUT at 30,000 you get a 3rd HKC. If you run out of HKC there is a charge and it varies depending on size of Unit (Studio to 4 Bedroom).

WM Members also have several Cash options - Bonus Time (BT 14 days before checkin), Monday Madness, and Inventroy Specials (usually limited to midweek stays but occasionally include weekends). With the cash options the Housekeeping is included.

When you buy resell you can only Book Directly into the about 90 WM Resorts. If you join II or RCI you have access to the full II or RCI Inventory.

It is possible to call in and get a Reservation with 7 days or less notice IF YOU DON'T CARE WHERE YOU GO.


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## rhonda (Aug 10, 2018)

Adding to @geist1223's answer above.

Link to 2018 Housekeeping fees: https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/news/2018_housekeeping_and_bonus_time_fees.shtml

Cash programs _include_ the housekeeping token; nightly minimum charges apply.  Current cash programs, with links if available:

Bonus time: $0.066/credit; 30-days out for Exotic Locations; 14-days out for non-Exotic locations, owner use; 5-days out for Guest use
Monday Madness: $0.08/credit; list changes every Monday
FAX (Friends And eXtends): $0.08/credit; unlimited use in White/Blue seasons; 1 Red Season reservation every 5 (?) years
Inventory Specials: $0.066/credit; list changes monthly; book up to 60 days prior to travel

re: "He responded with a scenario that he called reservations a week before and they were able to book him a discounted room instead."
The word "discounted" is a red flag to me. WM doesn't offer "discounted" rooms in the internal system ... instead they offer Bonus Time, cash reservations using the same value grid as if you booked on Credits.  If he booked a "discounted" room then he likely booked something _outside_ of WM using either RCI or II.  Both of our major exchange companies (RCI Weeks and II) offer "last minute" exchanges for a flat rate of 4000 WM credits (equivalent to a Blue Studio) plus the exchange fee ($$) regardless of the destination unit size or season.

Sales people tell strange half-truths, eh?


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## taterhed (Aug 10, 2018)

I luv TUG. 

That's more precise, truthful information about Worldmark than you'll get from a year of sales presentations or 24 hours of steady internet research.

Here is a good resource:  *Online Worldmark directory 2018-19*

  Red dots are Worldmark.  Some info is for developer purchased.....travelshare, wyndham club pass....so use as a resource, not a bible.


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