# Comparing Worldmark resale to Wyndham?



## carters4usm (Aug 19, 2010)

I admit I know very little about the Worldmark system and am sure this question has been asked and answered, but why is Worldmark's resale value so much greater than Wyndham's?


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## LLW (Aug 19, 2010)

carters4usm said:


> I admit I know very little about the Worldmark system and am sure this question has been asked and answered, but why is Worldmark's resale value so much greater than Wyndham's?




Because
1. WM's Maintenance Fees are lower - some much lower.
2. WM charges less fees: no guest fee, no transaction fee except housekeeping.........
3. WM owners can rent credits to other owners - Wyn owners can't.
4. WM's governing documents protect owners better (set up by Trendwest). The WVR setup gives Wyn a lot of power (set up by Wyn).
5. WM is very flexible, e.g. can cancel up to 30 days before check-in with no penalty.


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## Nobylspoon (Aug 19, 2010)

Comparing the two is like comparing apples to hand grenades. A big thing that sold me on WM was the fact that the owners all had a true piece of the ownership and had a lot of protection. Granted, Wyn still does pretty good at mucking things up, but I would be terrified to own a property where they had unlimited control :/


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## mshatty (Aug 20, 2010)

Wyndham Vacation Resorts is fundamentally different than Worldmark.  None of the Worldmark owners have any interest in real estate.  Their ownership is a membership in a Club, personal property.  The WM Club owns the real estate.  

Whereas, traditionally, a Wyndham owner owned an interest in real estate via a home resort.  A Wyndham owner's MF are based on their home resort plus an additional program fee.  There is a large divergence in Wyndham MF for the same amount of points owned due to this  home resort template.  Wyndham started a club ownership that has many of the older Wyndham resorts in its club.  This club program is similar to Worldmark in booking at 13 months at these club resorts.

Both programs have nice resorts for vacations.


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## jjmanthei05 (Aug 20, 2010)

The other thing to look at is proximity to the internal resorts. For the most part Worldmark is more on the west coast and WVR has more resorts on the east coast. So if you are looking for somewhere to be able to drive to that may help make the decision.

Jason


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## bnoble (Aug 20, 2010)

If you are trying to decide which to buy, Jason is on the money: look first at the *resorts* in each system.  And, look only at the "primary" resorts, not the affiliate/associate ones.  The latter usually have very very little inventory, and are there mostly to make the "wish book" look bigger.

For many people, that will eliminate one system or the other pretty quickly.

One more difference to add to Larry's list: WM trades much better in RCI than Wyndham does.  But, I think ultimately the resale values are driven by (1) a difference in maintenance fee costs per week and (2) it seems as though Wyndham is simply more available on the resale market.  TUGgers are a unique breed---I don't think the average owner has any clue about the differences in governance between the two systems.  I could be wrong about #2, though---I don't follow it that closely---and #1 depends a lot on exactly what and where you own within Wyndham.  Wyndham MFs per point can vary by as much as a factor of two or more.


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## taylorco (Aug 28, 2010)

*Is WM worth the higher price for a newbie?*

Hi Everyone Newbie here  

My Husband and I are very new into the whole TS idea. His parents own WM (Have since he was 13) and we are somewhat familiar with their system.. though not all the fundamental in's and out's, and I don't have the patience to have a conversation that complex with my MIL!  

We were originally planning on purchasing 10k WM points. We don't have any children yet, however I think it may be easier in the long run to only have one contract? Plus it looks to me like there is more value in the MF owning one 10k contract vs. two 5k contracts, right?

After finding Tug, and looking at Ebay.. a lot! I noticed the cost of buying into Wyndham is a lot less upfront. We know that WM is a great program.. but for a young couple, just getting their feet wet into the TS world is it worth the additional $3k+ initial upfront cost?


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 28, 2010)

taylorco,
Yes, $3,000 will seem like chump change in 5 or 10 years. You live in CA. The resorts where your Wyndham points would be easy to use are mostly the newer Wyndham's - much higher costs for each vacation week. There are few resorts, too. Las Vegas is about the closest big resort using lower points values for units and would still be cheaper to just book casino units than to use TS. Worldmark is the system I would own if I lived in your part of the country.

Here is another *BIG PLUS for buying Worldmark*. You can transfer points between your Worldmark account and your in-law's account.  Can not transfer between Wyndham-Wyndham or Wyndham-Worldmark.

As for the learning from the in-laws: asking questions here is safe. We won't remember at Christmas dinner 2015. :ignore: 

By the way, my sister's FIL has owned TS for 25+ years and Wyndham for 15-20 years. All brought from the developer. He knows I know the Wyndham system; my sis wants to make sure he never learns what dollars I spent for my timeshares.


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## taylorco (Aug 28, 2010)

vacationhopeful said:


> taylorco,
> Yes, $3,000 will seem like chump change in 5 or 10 years. You live in CA. The resorts where your Wyndham points would be easy to use are mostly the newer Wyndham's - much higher costs for each vacation week. There are few resorts, too. Las Vegas is about the closest big resort using lower points values for units and would still be cheaper to just book casino units than to use TS. Worldmark is the system I would own if I lived in your part of the country.
> 
> Here is another *BIG PLUS for buying Worldmark*. You can transfer points between your Worldmark account and your in-law's account.  Can not transfer between Wyndham-Wyndham or Wyndham-Worldmark.
> ...



Thanks for your reply! We do live in Cali now.. however we are possibly(85%) moving to PA for my husbands company, to open it's first east cost office.. Sounds like the relocation contract will be written for only 2 years, with the option to extend.. or move to another area for possible office location as well.. My ultimate goal is to come back to Cali ASAP.. He sees things other ways..

Transferring points with my MIL is not likely to happen.. ever.. With the exception of a chance meeting at the airport we haven't talked to, or seen her at all since she ruined our wedding last year :annoyed: Long story short.. She threw a fit because she did not get enough "spotlight" Got trashed, Laughed out loud when my husband and I thanked our guess for coming.. drew devil horns and a beard on our engagement photo (in black sharpie), and crossed out the messages on the matting of guests she did not like.. There's much much more.. but don't get me started!  

With that said.. I can see where WM may be the better product. I just can't get past the value out there of some of the WYN resorts.. But again I am a newbie and could be looking at it completely wrong..

This is the listing that I am looking at on Ebay  http://cgi.ebay.com/Wyndham-Kona-Ha...40442634132?pt=Timeshares&hash=item20b3088794
The way I see it with no closing costs I can spend up to $250 on the auction.. pay the $100 transfer fee, have $350 upfront and own now (I'd have to wait for a while with the $5000 upfront fees, since Ebay does not finance, and we are still paying off the ruined wedding). The MF are paid and I won't owe until 2011. I wouldn't be able to use the points until October next year.. but I doubt we would be vacationing before then anyways because we already have one planned for May 2011, and with my husband heading a start up.. not likely we'll have the time before then either..

But in the same respect I could essentially wait, put money into a savings account, and buy WM next year... Are there any other Pros/Cons of either resort?  I have a tough time deciding what to order at McDonalds.. let alone a TS  All Help is appreciated!!


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 28, 2010)

Worldmark owns some units at the Wyndham managed resorts - Worldmark is a club and the MFs are blended. Worldmark resorts are desirable (and smaller). Hawaii TSs have higher MFs - you can exchange via the external exchange companies cheaper.  RENTING Wyndham vacations is very easy and cheap.

Here at TUG, we strongly _SUGGEST_ newbies spend 6+ months looking before buying even 1 timeshare. It is far easier to buy a TS than it is to sell it or even give it away.  And saving for a year is, IMHO, the best plan ...


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## taylorco (Aug 28, 2010)

vacationhopeful said:


> Worldmark owns some units at the Wyndham managed resorts - Worldmark is a club and the MFs are blended. Worldmark resorts are desirable (and smaller). Hawaii TSs have higher MFs - you can exchange via the external exchange companies cheaper.  RENTING Wyndham vacations is very easy and cheap.
> 
> Here at TUG, we strongly _SUGGEST_ newbies spend 6+ months looking before buying even 1 timeshare. It is far easier to buy a TS than it is to sell it or even give it away.  And saving for a year is, IMHO, the best plan ...



Thanks! I have been doing some research, and lurking here since we went to a presentation for GVC.. We bought, then rescinded when I by chance was searching on Ebay for a different purchase and noticed I could pick up 10K WM points for what what I'd just spent got GVC. Prior to that I wasn't sure I wanted a TS at all! We hated the idea of going to the same place every year that's why we liked GVC (We didn't think we could afford WM so at the time so they seamed like a good option.. even though we wouldn't have the options for trips less then a week) 

Prior we had only been to 1 presentation. At Shell Fisherman's Wharf (Very expensive buy in and maintenance fees!) and a phone call with a Marriott sales rep, after we stayed at the Kauai Beach Club. We had no idea about resale and I am glad my Husband was my voice of reason! But we figured since we knew the WM quality already and the flexibility.. we thought it would be in the same price range if not higher. I am so thankful that I happened across Ebay that day!

What is a good amount of WM points to start with? Ideally we would like to be able to take 1 week long trip and 2-3 long weekends (or mid week mini vacations) in a 2 bedroom. Even though we do not have children, we plan on having them at some point soon. we also like to travel with friends/family sometimes. Is it better to plan for the future, or just buy the min that we need right now?


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## GregT (Aug 28, 2010)

I own both Worldmark and Wyndham and they each have their strengths.  Both are good points systems, but Worldmark has 3 distinct things that I love about it:

1) very very low MFs
2) Ability to rent and transfer points easily means you can rent what you need (why own alot of points if you can rent easily?)
3) It is a very powerful trading property in both RCI and II

I don't really stay in Worldmark properties anymore, although there isn't anything wrong with them.  They are probably a "B" caliber property -- I've been able to trade them for B+/A-/A properties very easily (Marriott Ko Olina, Hilton Kingsland, Hilton Lagoon Tower, Marriott Shadow Ridge) -- with some effort, it's very very powerful.

Wyndham has better (IMO) properties than Worldmark, and the system is mostly flexibility, but the Wyndham management company continues to change the rules which frustrate the Wyndham ownership.  They've not been able to play the same types of games with Worldmark.

Good luck with your research!

All the best,

Greg


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## Trish839 (Aug 29, 2010)

I also own both & agree w/Greg. I love WM system but the quality of the resorts in CA have gone down due to people mis use of the resorts property but the customer service is still good. I'm planning on using my WM 4 exchange trading only.


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## LLW (Sep 1, 2010)

If you use WM only to exchange, you are not utilizing it for all you can. True, WM resorts are not in the same calibre as the Four Seasons, Westins, and Marriotts (its MF are $500 instead of $2,000, which makes it a great exchanger), but they are heads and shoulders above many many other resorts.

Great ways in which WM resorts may be used:
1. Road trips in the West (linking many resorts together in short stays).
2. Nice resorts near many national parks - Banff, Yellowstone, Yosemite, Zion, Bryce.
3. One- to six-day stays.
4. Inexpensive midweek stays (at Priceline levels).
5. Urban timeshares: Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, San Diego.
6. Washington and Oregon Coasts.

Most WM owners (>90%) only use WM for its own resorts. They are also missing out on the full use of WM by taking an unbalanced approach.

Everybody uses WM differently - that's why WM is great - it can be used tremendously in so many ways. The more ways we use it, the more tremendous it is.


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## GregT (Sep 1, 2010)

LLW said:


> If you use WM only to exchange, you are not utilizing it for all you can. True, WM resorts are not in the same calibre as the Four Seasons, Westins, and Marriotts (its MF are $500 instead of $2,000, which makes it a great exchanger), but they are heads and shoulders above many many other resorts.
> 
> Great ways in which WM resorts may be used:
> 1. Road trips in the West (linking many resorts together in short stays).
> ...



LLW makes excellent points, and it is worth highlighting that there are a number of California properties in Worldmark that are well-located and convenient -- Big Bear/Tahoe/Solvang, in addition to the urban timeshares mentioned.   Worldmark has done a nice job of putting very good properties in desirable locations.

Thanks very much,

Greg


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## Trish839 (Sep 3, 2010)

As I mention before I love WM i.e. the resorts, location and staff and I am not comparing it to any other Timeshare but the people occuping the resorts have turn me off. Here is a long Thread in the WorldMark Owners Community addressing an issue I've also experienced at Indio and have had similar experience at other WM resorts. 
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27007&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


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## Trish839 (Sep 3, 2010)

LLW said:


> If you use WM only to exchange, you are not utilizing it for all you can. True, WM resorts are not in the same calibre as the Four Seasons, Westins, and Marriotts (its MF are $500 instead of $2,000, which makes it a great exchanger), but they are heads and shoulders above many many other resorts.
> 
> Great ways in which WM resorts may be used:
> 1. Road trips in the West (linking many resorts together in short stays).
> ...


I agree with you whole heartly and this is why I bought into WorldMark  but none of the above matter when you have to share it with rude and destructive people. And I'm not saying all WM resorts are like this in California because I haven't visit them all but I can attest to at least 4.
I went to an Owners Education Training in Anaheim last week and some of the owners brought up the same issue.


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## LLW (Sep 4, 2010)

Trish839 said:


> As I mention before I love WM i.e. the resorts, location and staff and I am not comparing it to any other Timeshare but the people occuping the resorts have turn me off. Here is a long Thread in the WorldMark Owners Community addressing an issue I've also experienced at Indio and have had similar experience at other WM resorts.
> http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27007&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=





Trish839 said:


> I agree with you whole heartly and this is why I bought into WorldMark  but none of the above matter when you have to share it with rude and destructive people. And I'm not saying all WM resorts are like this in California because I haven't visit them all but I can attest to at least 4.
> I went to an Owners Education Training in Anaheim last week and some of the owners brought up the same issue.



I agree that resort management should do a better job in situations like those. As the linked thread points out, Indio also has good times and bad times, e.g. spring break would be a bad time. Owners who run into those situations should contact the resort manager (immediately) and club management (starting with Owner Service). It's our club and _we_ can improve it.

Fortunately I haven't run into those situations at any of the 25 WMs that I have been to. I hope you don't give up on the 16 resorts in California, and the 70-some resorts in the Club either. 

Having said that, exchanges into Four Seasons, Westins and Marriotts with our low MFs, for 4K to 12K credits, are great values, and we all should take advantage of them.


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## Trish839 (Sep 4, 2010)

LLW said:


> I agree that resort management should do a better job in situations like those. As the linked thread points out, Indio also has good times and bad times, e.g. spring break would be a bad time. Owners who run into those situations should contact the resort manager (immediately) and club management (starting with Owner Service). It's our club and _we_ can improve it.It's going 2 take alot of owners complaint to solve this problem
> 
> Fortunately I haven't run into those situations at any of the 25 WMs that I have been to. Have u been 2 Indio? Very nice place just full of thugs.I hope you don't give up on the 16 resorts in California, and the 70-some resorts in the Club either.   I want. WM is a great TS & the location of their resorts are superb.
> 
> Having said that, exchanges into Four Seasons, Westins and Marriotts with our low MFs, for 4K to 12K credits, are great values, and we all should take advantage of them. I've never tried to exchange is it true that WM have good trade?


cccccccccc


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## LLW (Sep 6, 2010)

The resort manager will do something if it is more hassle for him/her to do something than not do something.

No, I haven't been to Indio, and if I go, I will pick a non-holiday timeframe. But I have not much need to go to Indio, a fly-to for me, as there are much nicer resorts (e.g. Marriotts) in the area.

Yes, WM has superb trade power. Combined with its low MF, exchanges are a great deal. Read the sticky threads on wmowners.com's Vacation Exchange Info forum for info on how to do it.


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## Trish839 (Sep 6, 2010)

LLW said:


> The resort manager will do something if it is more hassle for him/her to do something than not do something.when Indio 1st. open it was our favorite resort i.e beautiful landscape ect.it was our home away from home we went there all the time (non holiday) the staff knew us by name. then over time we started noticing things i.e people stealing intertubes from the lazy pool, gum stuck 2 the elevator,  things broken inside the resorts, kids in the adult jacuzzi after hrs. w/no adult supervision & running wild in the hall. Rude adults talking loud outside their room while drinking beer 7:00am. We willl complain & each time it will stop sometimes we was given a free trip. The point I'm trying 2 make is based on my experience this is beyond 1 or 3 bad trips it's a pattern.  And if things doesnt change our MF will continue 2 go up because somebody has 2 pay 4 the cost
> 
> Yes, WM has superb trade power. Combined with its low MF, exchanges are a great deal. Read the sticky threads on wmowners.com's I visit this website quiet often & like itVacation Exchange Info forum for info on how to do it.



rrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## Harry2760 (Sep 6, 2010)

*trading into wyn*

So as a WM owner is it pretty easy to trade into WYN?


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## Rent_Share (Sep 6, 2010)

Harry2760 said:


> So as a WM owner is it pretty easy to trade into WYN?


 
NO 


There are a few "affiliated units" that do not involve an exchange fee or membership, but next to impossible to book  (1 unit per affilaite resort available per week), but it looks good on a resort map during the song and dance

The Majority of WVO's are RCI so you would  need to have an RCI account but no prioority over any other week in RCI

YMMV


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