# Is Worldmark Wyndham



## easyrider (Jan 25, 2007)

Did Worldmark buy out Wyndham ? Is this a good thing for Worldmark owners?


Whats the dealio ?


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## Lee B (Jan 25, 2007)

WorldMark, the Club is the members.  The club owns the resorts unencumbered.  The developer and manager of the resorts is/was Trendwest, which Wyndham Worldwide acquired recently.  They probably will remove the Trendwest name from properties and stationary.


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## easyrider (Jan 25, 2007)

So does Worldmark own Wyndham ? And if we do then are we going to be able to stay at more resorts than whats in the Worldmark directory or are we going to be shareing our resorts with Wyndhan owners?


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## ladycody (Jan 25, 2007)

Nobody "owns" WorldMark other than the club (owners) itself....nor does Worldmark own Wyndham.  Wyndham is now the parent company of the developer/sales company for WM and can choose to make itself available (hotels and resorts) to WM owners as a benefit of ownership in order to promote sales.  Whether or not it will benefit you will depend on what they choose to offer and what your travel habits are.  (not much help, huh?)

Anyway...the bottom line is that WorldMark is WorldMark...a separate entity...owned by its owners...that has a very strong _connection_ to Wyndham...and _that_ has the _potential_ to be mutually beneficial.  Gonna have to see how it turns out.  Right now, WM owners are able to get special discounts at Wyndham-owned hotels/resorts.


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## Judy (Jan 25, 2007)

No, Worldmark does not own Wyndham.  Wyndham is the developer and manager of Worldmark.  For more detailed discussions, information, and speculation, go to www.wmowners.com   For an official announcement, read "Wyndham Vacation Ownership Re-Brands Trendwest Resorts" under "Your Club; Worldmark News" on the homepage of www.worldmarktheclub.com


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## easyrider (Jan 25, 2007)

I didnt see any Wyndham Resorts in the Worldmark Directory but there is some Fair Field ?


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## KenK (Jan 28, 2007)

Cendant Corp (old CD) owned many trademarked names...and franchise names..and the names of T/S development and management companies....including RCI, (mainly an exchange company), Fairfield Trendmark, Worldmark, all as developers and or management companies for various hospitality units...mainly interval owned units....ie...those units owned by the T/S owners, and those owners (usually) choising the management company to run the places...those sometimes also being the developer, the people many non-tug members buy the interval (week or points) from.

Once the intervals are sold the developer can also stay as the management company....but the owners are the people who OWN the intervals (usually weeks or points) in that resort condo.

Cendant broke itself into a few different companies.  The hospitality division (which included Fairfield, Tredwest Worldmark, and the other timeshare sections became part of the new company called Wyndham.....after one of the name of one of their hotel franchises names.  BTW...others in that franchise include HoJo, Ramada, Knights Inn, and a host of other hotel names under the Wyndham label (a part of the old Cendant)

The hotels usually also owned by individuals who ask Cendants new spinoff for use of their name....say Ramada....Then the Ramada section of Wyndham manages that hotel, for the owners.  

So....the owners of Fairfield Resorts, of Worldmark Trendwest Resorts, pay Wyndham to manage their resort.....and the usual management company was the original developer of the resort/condo.

Remember....YOU are the owner...you (are supposed to) vote for an impartial HOA that will work with the management company to watch YOUR interest.....and maybe the HOA should not have management or employees on the HOA....but in many cases they do.


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## RichM (Jan 29, 2007)

It's not "Trendwest WorldMark" or "WorldMark Trendwest Resorts"  - The legal name for Trendwest is "Trendwest Resorts, Inc." and for WorldMark it is "WorldMark the Club, a California mutual benefit corporation".   They are two legally separate entities with no cross-ownership.  One was bought by Cendant and is owned, now, under Wyndham Vacation Ownership - that being Trendwest. 

There was a separate "brand name" created "WorldMark by Trendwest" but that was only to reflect the sales/marketing relationship between the two entities. That "brand name" is changing to "WorldMark by Wyndham".

___________________
WorldMark Owners' Community -      
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




      - www.wmowners.com


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## cotraveller (Jan 29, 2007)

The brand name has already changed.  Quoting from the Wyndham web site - - -

"_Through its three primary consumer brands, Wyndham Vacation Resorts, *WorldMark by Wyndham*, and Trendwest South Pacific, Wyndham Vacation Ownership has developed or acquired over 140 vacation ownership resorts throughout North America and the South Pacific that represent more than 18,000 individual ownership units and more than 750,000 owners of vacation ownership and other real estate interests. "_


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## PerryM (Jan 30, 2007)

*WorldMark is NOT TrendWest, TrendWest is NOT WorldMark!*

WorldMark is unique in the timeshare world – it is a club of 230,000+ owners and hires a management company, TrendWest to run the club.  WM has no employees – zero.  Wyndham bought TW from Cendant, and Wyndham will sell TW to someone else to make a buck or two in the future.

WM has a master trust that contains the deeds to all the WM resorts.  That master trust supposedly has no liens (bank loans) attached to any of the deeds.  TW builds the resorts then turns the deeds over to the WM master trust at no cost.  TW gets, in return, access to the other 60+ WM resorts and generates WM credits that it sells just like any timeshare developer.

The WM credits represent a tiny fraction of ownership of all the deeds in the master trust.

TW goes out of its way to give the impression that it’s WM, the signs give the impression that TW is WM.  In reality it’s the hired management company and an independent sales organization that sells WM ownership credits.

Of course resale WM credits go for a fraction of what TW sells.  TW sells WM credits for $1.80 and resale credits average 80¢ each.  There is NO difference between the WM credits TW sells and resale WM credits.  TW has added a hokey travel plan in with it’s WM credits – the hokey plan isn’t worth the difference saved in price by buying resale.


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## roadsister (Jan 30, 2007)

"There is NO difference between the WM credits TW sells and resale WM credits."

There is now.


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## PerryM (Jan 30, 2007)

*Yes; your wallet will see the difference*

Roadsister is correct - there is a difference now:

12,000 WM credits bought resale cost 70¢ each for a total cost of *$8,400* (I just got an offer from a WM reseller today for that price)

TW will sell you the same exact 12,000 credits for $1.80 each or *$21,600.*

Since this is out of the reach of many folks who fall smitten by the TW salesrep the finance charges of 13.99% will total $16,766 for a total outlay of *$38,366*.

So yes there is a difference.

*Buy from TW and pay more:*

*1) Cash $13,200 or 157% more than resale*

*2) Financed $29,966 or 253% more than resale*

The new Travel Share program, that is only available to new TW sold credits, is a joke – someone show me how that program will offset the extra money that buying from TW costs?

I’ve got my calculator ready – someone show me some examples that justify the gross discrepancies on that 12,000 credit account. (There won’t be any examples shown; believe me)

So a worthless Travel Share program means nothing. Again I state:

*“There is NO difference between TW sold WM credits for $1.80 and resale WM credits sold from an owner for 80¢”.*

Well unless you count the fat profits TW gets; then there’s a hell of a difference.



P.S.
One of the advantages buying resale has to do with getting the reservation you want.

If you try to get to WM Maui or Disneyland or Disneyworld you will find that you must pay much more to get then the published rates; about 30% more.  (These are called “Throwaway Days” added in front of a holiday week to beat your fellow WM owner to that reservation)

Anyone trying to get to these destinations must buy an average of 2 “Throwaway Days” in front of the real reservation.  The poor TW owner has but 12,000 credits and he could easily need 3,600 more credits in Maui to add 2 days in front of that holiday week.  Sadly our TW owner will never get that week.

Our resale owner saved so much money that buying an additional 4,000 credits for $2,800 is not hard to justify.  Result – he beats the TW owner to the reservation every time.

So it’s not just the cash, it’s about being able to get the holiday week you want for your family vacation.  Our poor TW owner can only call his salesrep who will gladly sell him those credits for $7,200.


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## cotraveller (Jan 31, 2007)

*It not about the $$$$*

In the 5+ years I’ve been a WorldMark owner I’ve visited 21 different WorldMark resorts. From Washington in the northwest to Florida in the southeast and many places in between.   I have many new friends I have met due to my association with WorldMark, both people within the WorldMark organization and fellow owners.  Some I have met only online, some I have met in person.

I have many memories from those visits.  Watching a whale in Depoe bay; marveling at the agility of the Cirque du Soleil performers in Las Vegas; sipping a cup of hot chocolate at an outdoor Christmas concert on a chilly night in Tucson; enjoying the view of the moonlight reflecting off a lake in Missouri; watching and listening to the raw power of a space shuttle lifting off the pad in Florida; chatting with another owner over breakfast at a WorldMark resort; the list goes on and on.

None of those things have any connection to how many credits are in my little 10k account or how many dollars I have spent or saved or how many of the loopholes and quirks of the WorldMark system I have gamed to get a reservation.  My enjoyment comes from the new places we visit and from the new friends we make, most of who could care less whether I own 5 or 5 million credits.  I would get no enjoyment from the fact that I “_beat my fellow WM owner to that reservation_”. There are too many other things that are much more important than worrying about the perfect reservation or pennies or dollars or percentages to two decimal places.

IMHBCO


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## PerryM (Jan 31, 2007)

*It's all about smarts...*

Fred, you are absolutely correct – it’s not about spending a lot of money; just being smart.

*First smart point – Buy ONLY a 6k WM account:*
That’s why I recommend that WM owners ONLY buy a 6,000 credit account (resale of course) for 70¢ each or $4,200.
*
Second smart point – Rent ALL the WM credits you need:*
From that point on the WM owner can rent WM credits from other WM owners for about 6¢ to 8¢ and get as many credits in their account as they want – take 20 weeks of WM vacations.

*Third smart point - 100% guarantee getting that holiday week:*
Since most folks like to vacation with the entire family, the problem of getting an impossible to get holiday week can easily be solved by just adding 5 days in front of hard to get holiday weeks.  Don’t have to worry about beating their fellow WM owner, just add 5 and there should be no problem.

*Forth smart point - Let II/RCI rent you credits:*
Don’t buy any WM credits for II/RCI exchanges – II/RCI will just bill you 7¢ a credit to exchange into virtually ANY timeshare in the world.

Yep, TW is left out of this entire loop and money takes a backseat to smart usage of the totally insane rules TW cooks up and shoots itself in the foot all the time.


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## ladycody (Jan 31, 2007)

Just my two cents in here...mostly cause I just cant help myself.   

Perry presents the developer pricing as ridiculous...when in reality, when you consider all of WM's benefits...it's a more than fair price....even financed.  Why?  Because if you travel in the public sector and pay rack rates...you will _certainly _spend far more for standard hotel rooms over the course of time (figure out the cost of a $100 hotel room..._not_ a comfy condo..._a room_...at 8% inflation for 10 nights/year over 30 years or so...it aint pretty...and you'll spend _alot_ more on food).  At the end of it all...when you've traveled in the public sector...you've taken a  100% loss on your money.  With WM (or any good TS)...when you cant travel anymore...you'd still have something to pass on or sell at the end of your days.  Maybe it sounds like a sales pitch...but I truly believe it and dont think developer purchasers need to feel beat up about buying from the developer.

Honestly...it costs me a whole lot more to be an owner than it would if I traveled on my own_ because I didnt go at all _and spent essentially _no_ money at all.  Being an owner got me _committed _to vacationing...bummer.   

What _is_ ridiculous is the going rate of resale credits ....they are truly worth far more than what they go for.  If there were a way to get all owners/resellers to agree that resale prices would not be below $X...then _that_ is the price at which they would sell....because WM is worth owning regardless.  Would it take longer to make a sale in the resale market...yup...likely...but they would and could sell for $1.40 per credit if we all simply said "sorry...we're not taking any less than that."  Problem is...that wont happen. 

JMO

Sorry if it's OT...I just cant control my need to pipe in on that.


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## cotraveller (Jan 31, 2007)

*It's still not about the $$$*

Perry, you missed the whole point.  All you talk about is the $$$.

As I said, it's not about the $$$.  I repeat - 

My enjoyment comes from the new places we visit and from the new friends we make, most of who could care less whether I own 5 or 5 million credits. I would get no enjoyment from the fact that I “_beat my fellow WM owner to that reservation_”. There are too many other things that are much more important than worrying about the perfect reservation or pennies or dollars or percentages to two decimal places.

IMHBCO


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## PerryM (Jan 31, 2007)

*All in the family*

Well Fred and LadyCody, it must be nice to not worry about what you spend on vacation – some of us worry about it.  Those of us who will retire in the upcoming years worry a lot about traveling in 5-star comfort and eating too.

*Of course it’s all about the money!*
I don’t buy from the timeshare developer since they are charging 2 – 4 times what the real estate value is!

I don’t need to buy even resale credits with WM since WM allows us to rent credits from other owners and help them out of a jam.

*Resale WM credits are actually priced too high! * Since WM has never done a real estate appraisal of the master trust fund we can only guess at the current value of the WM credits – *my guess is about 40¢ a credit* - if someone has a better guess, please present that value to the WM BOD.  Resale timeshares represents real estate value and NOT all the bloated developer costs that the first owner of that week/credit must pay and lose.

So instead of spending the money on expensive developer credits or even expensive resale credits it’s better to just rent credits from other WM owners and/or II/RCI.

The money saved goes towards your family’s vacation – the airline tickets, the activities at the resort area, fine restaurants, etc.  Heck, send the kids to college!

Spending time to learn how to outfox TW and your fellow WM owner is money in your pocket.  This is one WM owner who delights in maximizing our WM investment.

Now if you don’t care about maximizing your WM/timeshare usage – go ahead and pay full price for those developer units – pay the never ending maintenance fees and when it comes time to sell, take a bath to top it off.

*I encourage all timeshare owners to consider the money – keep it in your family!*


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## cotraveller (Jan 31, 2007)

*Nope, it's still not about the $$$$*

It's deja vu all over again.  *Nope, it's still not about the $$$$.*

One more time - - 

My enjoyment comes from the new places we visit and from the new friends we make, most of who could care less whether I own 5 or 5 million credits. I would get no enjoyment from the fact that I “beat my fellow WM owner to that reservation”.  

I'll leave the wheeling & dealing to others while I continue to enjoy my time, my friends, and my WorldMark visits.  That gives me much more pleasure than worrying about my status or counting my pennies or scheming about how to work the loopholes and quirks of the WorldMark system get that prime holiday reservation that all the other wheeler dealers are trying to beat me to.

IMHBCO


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## PerryM (Jan 31, 2007)

*$130,000 = $4,200?*

Don’t get me wrong – the vast majority of timeshare owners care little about the costs; and that's just fine with me.

In December, 2005 we spent Christmas week at 2 of the most expensive Marriotts in their program – Marriott’s Summit Watch and MountainSide at Park City, UT.  Marriott sells those Platinum Plus weeks for about $65,000 each.

*That means that 2 Marriott owners paid a total of $130,000 to buy those weeks and about $2,000 in MF per year.*

I used WM credits to exchange (II) into those Marriotts and it could easily have been done for a total outlay of 6,000 WM credits costing 70¢ each or *$4,200 *to buy into the WM system.  Then rent 20,000 WM credits for 6¢ each and the cost would have been *$1,200*.

So to those who don’t care about maximizing your vacation dollar, that’s fine with me.  We need you guys so we can exchange into $130,000 of timeshares with just $4,200.

Please, let’s have more of this; some of us are counting on you.

P.S.
Because of these two fine exchanges we rented out our Park Plaza units that we own, for Christmas week, and that paid for all our MFs - the entire trip to Park City was free.  This includes the airline tickets, lift tickets and restaurants in Park City for two of us.  We invited another family to stay, for free, at the other Marriott.  If you don't care about doing things like this, just ignore these capabilities WM opens to smart owners.


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## Bill4728 (Jan 31, 2007)

Perry & Fred

You both made your point. Since this has nothing to do with the name change of Trendwest to Wyndham, I'm closing this thread.


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## ladycody (Jan 31, 2007)

PerryM said:
			
		

> We need you guys so we can exchange into $130,000 of timeshares with just $4,200.



It's about _time _you realized that (whew )...so the least you could do is be nice about it, dontcha think?


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