# First time HGVC member.  Did I overpay (not resale buyer tho)?



## tugdc (Jun 14, 2010)

I was at Hilton Hawaiian Village about half month ago and got invited to the HGVC sales meeting.

Due to my completely lack of knowledge about TS and lack of time to do research (I wish I could have joined TUG earlier), I wasn't know if I was paying way too much on the following:

Big Island Kohala Coast Vacation Suite @ Waikoloa Beach
2BD, 7000pts every *ODD* year (beginning 2011), Plat Time.
HOA about $1350 every odd year too.
Bonus Point: 18,000
Price paid: Almost $18k, closing cost included.

The more I read on TUG, the more I feel like I paid way too much...

Given that this is not buying from resale, and the whole transaction was taken place at the Hilton facility with the Hilton staffs, I guess I'm not scammed?

Can someone tell me the price I paid is at least "reasonable?"  It's been 2 weeks since I signed the contract so I don't think I can rescind it, huh?


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## echino (Jun 14, 2010)

This is a new resort which is not often seen resale. Have a look here.

Other Hilton resorts in Hawaii can be bought much cheaper. Like this one, can be had for $1 - $100. Those are cheap because of high maintenance fees.

You probably overpaid, but you got an excellent product. You can now enjoy your vacations.


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## Talent312 (Jun 14, 2010)

Its too late to rescind, but its not the end of the world.

You'll just be part of a heathy crowd of folk who think its best to buy from the builder, rather than someone who they do not know.  Also: A llot of folks get their start in TS's with a retail purchase just like you, bot knowing about the resale market.

You could default on any financing or for the MF's and let 'em take it back for foreclosure, using Bankruptcy and other debtor protections to avoid personal liability, but that would ruin yur credit for other purposes.


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## pianodinosaur (Jun 14, 2010)

I purchased all my units directly from HGVC and am currently at the Elite Plus level.  HGVC only builds new resorts with the intent of selling them directly to people like you and me.  I am now closing on a Marriott that I purchased resale on ebay.  Then again, Marriott only builds new resorts with the intent of selling them direct to people like you and me.  

We have had an excellent experience with HGVC the past nine years. We would not have had our wonderful vacations without timesharing.  HGVC is extremely flexible and you need to study the manual to learn how to use the system to fit your lifestyle. Welcome to HGVC and Welcome to TUG.


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## ricoba (Jun 14, 2010)

Yes, you did overpay, but relax many of us here on TUG (myself included) found out that we had over payed too, until like you it was too late to rescind.  

HGVC is a great system and the Waikioloa Resort is a wonderful resort.

So take your time here on TUG and find out how to use your HGVC membership to the max. 

Welcome to TUG!


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## deedman (Jun 14, 2010)

I don't get why these people are beating around the bush, maybe they don't want you to beat yourself up over it. Here is the blunt answer, because if I asked the same question that is what I would want:

You overpaid by at least MORE then double.  HGVC points can be had for around $1 a point on the resale market (ebay, redweek, etc).  You could have gotten 7000 points on the resale market for no more then $7000-7500. Since this is a biennial contract, it might have even passed ROFR at less than $1 a point.  Sure, you wouldn't have been able to necessarily buy at this new resort, but why should that matter when points are points and can be used anywhere.  Don't let anyone give you any hub-bub about elite status, because the perks (which I don't think you have enough points for anyways) do not add up to the nearly $11,000 (probably a lot more if you didn't pay cash and calculate the interest that will accrue) difference you overpaid.  You have learned a valuable lesson, *NEVER BUY RETAIL AGAIN.*  Now, you are past the rescission period, so the only thing left to do is enjoy your TS, the nice thing is even though you overpaid you have a good product that you will be able to enjoy thoroughly.  Welcome to TUG, you will learn a lot by scouring these forums.

BTW to Echino, you are gravely mistaken if you think that the timeshare you posted can be had for $1 - $100, due to the fact that Hilton has a Right of First Refusal clause in their contracts, they will not let any timeshare go for less then $1 a point, this is the ONLY reason the prices haven't completely bottomed out like every other timeshare.  The only exception to this rule is the Flamingo which doesn't have ROFR. Basically, HGVC hasn't bottomed out because Hilton is manufacturing resale prices to their liking.

Now an example of a timeshare that hasn't completely bottomed out, and without any help from the corp., is Worldmark.  This is solely due to demand, not manufactured figures.  The demand is due to worldmark having great trading power, as well as being able to trade with BOTH RCI and II, and the fact that their internal resorts are everywhere, unlike HGVC which is heavily built in 3 places, hawaii, florida, and vegas, and only trades with RCI.  And if you compare the MF of worldmarks $500-600 and hgvc of usually over $1000, most people are hesitant to trade their hgvc week into rci because you are often over paying for the exchanged week you receive with very few exceptions.


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## tugdc (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks a lot for all the replies.   It's good to know I'm not the only one and I'm sure I'll do more homework when I come across the next TS package, if that happens.

I think I did a lot of dumb things, but the key is not to repeat the same dumbness in the future. LOL.  
I'm sure I will enjoy my TS like all of you folks do!


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## MichaelColey (Jun 14, 2010)

Just look at it this way:

Cost of the Timeshare: $7,000
Cost of the Education: $11,000

Now that you've found TUG, the education will be much cheaper.


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## deedman (Jun 14, 2010)

michael is absolutely right.  Although you overpaid, the lesson you have learned is priceless, and can save you a WHOLE lot more money in the future.  Consider yourself lucky you only threw away 11k+, because there are people who buy timeshares and get taken for A LOT more. And remember, for people to buy resale there always had to be someone that paid retail. We all can't be that lucky. Good luck and always check with tuggers before a major TS purchase, they can save your ass, i know because they saved mine !


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## pianodinosaur (Jun 14, 2010)

tugdc said:


> Thanks a lot for all the replies.   It's good to know I'm not the only one and I'm sure I'll do more homework when I come across the next TS package, if that happens.
> 
> I think I did a lot of dumb things, but the key is not to repeat the same dumbness in the future. LOL.
> I'm sure I will enjoy my TS like all of you folks do!



Welcome to the club!!!  I was unaware of TUG until after I had purchased 24,000 points direct from HGVC. Don't lose your bonus points.  Start thinking about how your are going to use them right now.  You should also get a HHonors AmEx.  HHonors may be the best hotel customer loyalty program out there despite the recent devaluation.


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## jestme (Jun 14, 2010)

tugdc said:


> Thanks a lot for all the replies.   It's good to know I'm not the only one and I'm sure I'll do more homework when I come across the next TS package, if that happens.
> 
> I think I did a lot of dumb things, but the key is not to repeat the same dumbness in the future. LOL.
> I'm sure I will enjoy my TS like all of you folks do!


Like as bunch of us, you found out too late what you could have paid. However, as ricoba said, a number of us did. Besides the money you could have saved, you now are now an owner, and the best thing to do is take advantage of the system as much as you can. There are over 100,000 members in the HGVC, and less than 10,000 here at TUG. Most of the other 90,000 HGVC members use their own timeshare every year, pay their MF's, and don't know how the system can be used to their advantage. I'm confident that when you bought, you saw value. Even if we paid too much, if you average it over the next 10-20 years, it isn't a big deal, and the value you originally sought is still there. If you use the system, you will get your value.
Welcome to TUG!


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## wmmmmm (Jun 14, 2010)

Overpaying is very subjective.  Did you overpay for your cheese burger at In N Out?  I also purchased my first HGVC directly in Hawaii and it was more than what I paid for my resales at LV and Orlando.  However, I can say it was one of my best "big" purchases.  HGVC is a great system so just enjoy it and don't worry about paying too much.  Since you can't rescind now, just book your next vacation.  Once you've been to the Kohola Suites, you may want to buy more points (resale of course) so you can go every year!


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## brp (Jun 15, 2010)

We purchased our first TS (Marriott) from the developer. I'm very active on www.flyertalk.com and someone there mentioned recission and TUG after I posted about it. I came here, learned, and rescinded because we still had time, fortunately.

Since then we've bought a couple at DVC, resale, saving a fair bit.

We recently purchased Hilton (HCNY), and did purchase from the developer. However, we were able to "work a deal" with them due to extenuating circumstances, and got it (all perks considered) pretty much at resale prices for that location. So, it is possible to get a good deal direct, but it doesn't happen often.

As others have said, the money is paid, so enjoy the product.

Cheers.


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## chester1122 (Jun 15, 2010)

Lucky for everyone someone buys from the developer.  I did as well and don't regret it. We now go to Hawaii 2 to 3 times per year plus usually one more place.  Way better that saving my money until I am 70!

I have now bought re-sale a few times and figure I have averaged down my cost and can get the plus units when I want as I have "cheap" points to add in.

Enjoy and don't look back.


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## deedman (Jun 15, 2010)

anyone that says that they bought from the developer and have no regrets is just a victim of denial or is frivolous with their money.  Sure you travel because you own it, but the fact is if you bought the same thing resale you could travel just as much and have more money in your pocket.  Be real people, you are not necessarily a fool if you bought retail, but you are more than a fool if you even try to attempt to defend it. Just my two cents.


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## jestme (Jun 15, 2010)

deedman said:


> anyone that says tha they bought from the developer and have no regrets is just a victim of denial or is frivolous with their money.  Sure you travel because you own it, but the fact is if you bought the same thing resale you could travel just as much and have more money in your pocket.  Be real people, you are not necessarily a fool if you bought retail, but you are more than a fool if you even try to attempt to defend it. Just my two cents.



Some people only buy used cars, and are happy because they are cheaper. Some people only buy new cars and are happy, because they get a guaranteed warranty from the seller. Both will defend their purchases and be convinced they are right. In the short term, the car goes the same. In the long term, there is always that nagging opportunity that the used car purchase may not be as good a deal as it looked like up front. HGVC rules will change, and Blackstone isn't Hilton. To me, timeshare is a long term deal. I thought it was a good plan when I bought it, and I will still defend that decision, regardless of price. Twenty years from now, I can look back and verify if I did it right. Fifty years from now, I won't care, but my grandkids might appreciate it. And to be honest, they won't care what I paid, or if it was retail or re-sale.


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## MichaelColey (Jun 15, 2010)

jestme said:


> Some people only buy used cars, and are happy because they are cheaper. Some people only buy new cars and are happy, because they get a guaranteed warranty from the seller.


There's one huge difference. Most new car's only lose 20-25% of their value when you drive them off the lot. Most timeshares lose 80-99% in a week.

If you want to consider it rationally, you have to look at the dealer perks (which is the only difference between buying from a developer and buying resale) compared to the price difference between buying from a developer and buying resale. If those perks are worth the difference, it's worthwhile to buy from a developer.


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## deedman (Jun 15, 2010)

jestme, that is not a valid analogy.  There is a difference between a new and used car, however important that diff is is an opinion of the buyer.  However, all timeshare ownerships should be considered used.  When you buy a "new" timeshare from the developer, or a "used" one retail  you are staying in the same USED unit.  The only thing you are getting from buying retail is whatever perks they are currently providing, which can be taken away at a whim and which do not add up to the amount you overpaid.  The same retail unit you purchased can be owned for a fraction of the cost, can be enjoyed for years like you stated, passed onto your kids/grandkids, and with money to spare.

No matter how hard you try: *THERE IS NO JUSTIFYING A RETAIL TS PURCHASE*

Someone on this forum had a fantastic signature, it was "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."


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## brp (Jun 15, 2010)

MichaelColey said:


> There's one huge difference. Most new car's only lose 20-25% of their value when you drive them off the lot. Most timeshares lose 80-99% in a week.
> 
> If you want to consider it rationally, you have to look at the dealer perks (which is the only difference between buying from a developer and buying resale) compared to the price difference between buying from a developer and buying resale. If those perks are worth the difference, it's worthwhile to buy from a developer.



By the way, it's even true with *cars* as opposed to *car's* 

The timeshare unit is just as "used" whether direct or resale-it's the same actual room. So, this makes it completely different from the car case. Would you want to pay full retail price for a used car? Probably not.

As mentioned, the only way that direct makes sense is if you can get a good enough deal from them (reduced rate, no closing costs, points, etc.) make it comparable to buying on the resale market where you get none of these. And that's hard to do.

Cheers.


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## toontoy (Jun 15, 2010)

The main thing that I would consider is the maint fee. with a newer resort it should be lower but as they age they increase and have special assesments. 

You can look at the Flamingo and the strip location and the strip has lower fees. 

Developer purchases can be a good deal it is all subject to what you expect and what is develivered. Hilton wouldn't be in the timeshare business to sell units resale. Developer purchases also come with some perks and these are not free but part of the purchase. I think its a personal descision. 

One thing you can compare a timeshare to a car is people have different opinions and different amounts they are willing to spend on the same model. People also consider financing as part of the deal, resale doesn't really have a financing option


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## MichaelColey (Jun 15, 2010)

If there's anything worse than buying from the developer, it's buying from the developer and financing it.


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## brp (Jun 15, 2010)

toontoy said:


> People also consider financing as part of the deal, resale doesn't really have a financing option



One opinion I've read on another timeshare board (and I agree with it completely) is that if one is financing a timeshare, then they really can't afford it and should wait until they can before buying it. In many cases the financing eats up a substantial portion of any savings that they may reap from owning the timeshare. And, yes, financing is available for resale. But it's as bad an option there as well.

Cheers.


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## Karen G (Jun 15, 2010)

toontoy said:


> People also consider financing as part of the deal, resale doesn't really have a financing option


Seriously, financing a timeshare purchase from a developer is even worse than buying from the developer in the first place.  If one cannot afford to pay cash for a timeshare, one should not be buying it--especially in today's market. When a timeshare can be rented for less than the maintenance fee these days, it makes no sense to go into debt to buy from the developer.


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## judgerey (Jun 16, 2010)

*Chill Out Dude, You'll Live Longer*



deedman said:


> anyone that says that they bought from the developer and have no regrets is just a victim of denial or is frivolous with their money.  Sure you travel because you own it, but the fact is if you bought the same thing resale you could travel just as much and have more money in your pocket.  Be real people, you are not necessarily a fool if you bought retail, but you are more than a fool if you even try to attempt to defend it.



Is it just me, or do others find most of Deedman's posts a bit shrill and over the top?   

Dude, put the keyboard down, take a deep breath and count to 10.


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 16, 2010)

*Nope it is not just you*

I find his remarks demeaning and condescending. I have privately suggested to him that at his age, regardless of his education, he should be less of a "know it all." 

I just figure he can't help it.

elaine


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## glypnirsgirl (Jun 16, 2010)

Not all of are so lucky that one of our friends who is a timeshare salesman clued us into resales before we purchased. 

I did not know about the resale market when I made my first developer purchase in 1994. I still own at that resort - Disney's Old Key West. I have happily used it all of these years. I could sell it today for about $460 less than I purchased it for. I trusted the product because I trusted Disney. 

In 2008, I purchased again from Disney. The second time, I was well aware of the resale market, but by buying directly from the developer, I was able to get 100 bonus points as an incentive, the previous years (2007) points to match what I was purchasing (without maintenance fees), and then I received the December, 2008 points. We rented out the 200 previous year points and the 100 points at $10 per point which netted us $3000 towards our purchase price. We did not have any closing costs and with the incentives, available only through the developer, I did better then resale.

Since then I have acquired other time shares and I have used them to advantage. I am happy with all of my purchases.

This past week, I asked my husband whether or not he wanted to sale the DVC points that we have. NOPE. We still use them. We still love them. 

The fact of the matter is, someone has to buy retail or there is no resale market. I agree that there is normally no reason to buy retail, but sometimes there are good reasons. 

To the OP: you believed that the deal had value when you made it. Could you have gotten a better deal? Probably. So what. If you use it and enjoy it, you still are receiving value, just not the best value. 

You don't have to be one of those people that sale their timeshare for next to nothing. I believe that those people purchase and then never learn how to use what they have purchased, so it has no value to them. And that that is the real reason that timeshares are selling for next to nothing. 

elaine


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