# Renting HGVC Timeshare Reservations



## Tamaradarann (May 9, 2012)

There was a recent Thread about PayPal payments for renting timeshares on TUG.  That made me think about the following questions.  I have read that in RCI you can't rent an exchange but you can rent your home week. What are the rules in the HGVC system on renting timeshares since you don't have a home week but a home season that you reserve?


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## Remy (May 9, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> There was a recent Thread about PayPal payments for renting timeshares on TUG.  That made me think about the following questions.  I have read that in RCI you can't rent an exchange but you can rent your home week. What are the rules in the HGVC system on renting timeshares since you don't have a home week but a home season that you reserve?



You can rent the 7 day week in the unit size and season you own. You book it and you can rent it. You can't (aren't supposed to) rent any random reservation you might make.


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## Tamaradarann (May 9, 2012)

*Can you rent a partial week?*



Remy said:


> You can rent the 7 day week in the unit size and season you own. You book it and you can rent it. You can't (aren't supposed to) rent any random reservation you might make.



If you own a one bedroom platinum season at a resort can you book a partial week for a one bedroom during platinum season at that resort.


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## Talent312 (May 9, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> If you own a 1BR platinum season at a resort can you book a partial week for a 1BR during platinum season at that resort.



Of course.
"Club" reservations are 3 or more days at any HGVC or HGVC-affiliated resort (including your own), regardless of season or size of unit. Season and size in important only for "home-week" reservations, which must be 7-days in your season, in the same size unit.


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## Tamaradarann (May 9, 2012)

*Can you Rent a Partial Week at a HGVC Resort*

What I wanted to ask but I was interupted at home when typing so I ddin't finish my thought was:
If you own a HGVC one bedroom platinum season at a resort can you book a partial week for a one bedroom during platinum season at that resort and then rent it out.


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## PigsDad (May 9, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> What I wanted to ask but I was interupted at home when typing so I ddin't finish my thought was:
> If you own a HGVC one bedroom platinum season at a resort can you book a partial week for a one bedroom during platinum season at that resort and then rent it out.


No, not according to HGVC's rules.  You can _*only *_rent out what you own:  in this case, a full week in a 1BR in the season that you own, checking in on the specified check-in day for that resort.

Kurt


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## Tamaradarann (May 10, 2012)

*Home week reservation versus club reservation*



PigsDad said:


> No, not according to HGVC's rules.  You can _*only *_rent out what you own:  in this case, a full week in a 1BR in the season that you own, checking in on the specified check-in day for that resort.
> 
> Kurt



So what you are saying is that you can rent a home week reservation but not a club reservation even if it is at the same resort during the same season.

I wonder how that works with RCI points reservations versus RCI weeks reservations.


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## frank808 (May 11, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> So what you are saying is that you can rent a home week reservation but not a club reservation even if it is at the same resort during the same season.
> 
> I wonder how that works with RCI points reservations versus RCI weeks reservations.



That is right according to the HGVC members guide.  I would say if you would make a week reservation at where you own for a week, why not at 11 months instead of 9 months?


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## Talent312 (May 11, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> So what you are saying is that you can rent a home week reservation but not a club reservation even if it is at the same resort during the same season.
> 
> I wonder how that works with RCI points reservations versus RCI weeks reservations.



The HGVC Guide, pg.162, states that rental of anything other than a home week booking is verbotten. 

RCI prohibits rentals of both weeks and points bookings, even if you book your own resort thru RCI. By definition, booking via RCI instead of thru your resort's booking service (HGVC or other) _is_ an exchange.

This is frequently discussed on the RCI board, and I recently quoted the rule in a post there. That's not to say that some do it anyway, but they risk having the reservation cancelled or their RCI account cancelled.


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## Tamaradarann (May 11, 2012)

*HGVC South Beach Friday to Friday*



frank808 said:


> That is right according to the HGVC members guide.  I would say if you would make a week reservation at where you own for a week, why not at 11 months instead of 9 months?



The 11 month versus 9 months doesn't make a difference, however, HGVC South Beach home week is Friday to Friday. Some of the concerns with this are:

Airlines may charge more for Friday travel.

People who work Monday-Friday may need to take off 6 days from work to do Friday to Friday

Events that one would like at attend in Miami may start mid-week and go through the weekend so Friday would be in the middle of the event

Therefore, begin able to reserve  Monday to Monday or Tuesday to Tuesday might be better


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## Tamaradarann (May 11, 2012)

*Very Restrictive Rental Rules Not Good for Ownership*



Talent312 said:


> The HGVC Guide, pg.162, states that rental of anything other than a home week booking is verbotten.
> 
> RCI prohibits rentals of both weeks and points bookings, even if you book your own resort thru RCI. By definition, booking via RCI instead of thru your resort's booking service (HGVC or other) _is_ an exchange.
> 
> This is frequently discussed on the RCI board, and I recently quoted the rule in a post there. That's not to say that some do it anyway, but they risk having the reservation cancelled or their RCI account cancelled.



I enjoy my timeshare usage very much so I am not speaking for myself at this time of my life.  However, the strict rental restrictions of HGVC and RCI make timeshare ownership less desirable in the big picture of life. With the rise in the number of foreclosures, non-payment of maintenance fees, and people willing to sell their timeshares for nothing a more desirable rental policy may benefit all owners.  Of course, it would probably cut into the profits of the big guys but perhaps the owners should to be able to optimize the benefits of their ownership.


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## SmithOp (May 11, 2012)

*Check eBay*



Tamaradarann said:


> There was a recent Thread about PayPal payments for renting timeshares on TUG.  That made me think about the following questions.  I have read that in RCI you can't rent an exchange but you can rent your home week. What are the rules in the HGVC system on renting timeshares since you don't have a home week but a home season that you reserve?



There are several weeks for rent on eBay, you can see how people are doing it.  They all seem to require this verbiage:

By listing this auction I verify that I am the actual travel agent or travel provider and not a third party affiliate. The travel/accommodations in this auction will be booked directly through me and not an outside agency. I also verify that, other than the government taxes and related government fees stated within the listing description itself, there will be absolutely no additional fees, charges or after auction purchases associated with booking the travel within this listing.


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## tschwa2 (May 11, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> I enjoy my timeshare usage very much so I am not speaking for myself at this time of my life.  However, the strict rental restrictions of HGVC and RCI make timeshare ownership less desirable in the big picture of life. With the rise in the number of foreclosures, non-payment of maintenance fees, and people willing to sell their timeshares for nothing a more desirable rental policy may benefit all owners.  Of course, it would probably cut into the profits of the big guys but perhaps the owners should to be able to optimize the benefits of their ownership.



RCI and II are very specific about using exchanges "for any commercial purpose by Member or guest, including without limitation auction, rental,raffle or sale"  They have even longer more inclusive prohibitions against renting but I didn't feel like searching for the quotes.

Marriott's Destination Club, SVN, and Disney VC all have rules against using club reservations for commercial purposes but does not go on to define commercial purposes so it seems that most members take it to mean that occasional rentals are allowed as long as you don't make a business out of doing it.  I don't know what the exact words are in the Hilton guide so I don't know if it is similar to the other points clubs above.


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## Talent312 (May 11, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> I don't know what the exact words are in the Hilton guide so I don't know if it is similar to the other points clubs above.




"The Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for commercial purposes... including the use of a confirmed reservation in an affiliated resort for *any rental*, resale or other commercial use (other than an owner's Home Week)." _(emphasis added)_
-- HGVC Guide, pg.162

"Guest Certificates and Guest Passes may not be used for any commercial purpose by Member or guest, including without limitation auction, rental, raffle or sale or the Guest Pass or Guest Certificate or the underlying Confirmed Exchange."
-- Weeks Terms & Conditions, Paragraph 20(D).
-- Points Terms & Conditions, Paragraph 16.


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## Remy (May 12, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> I enjoy my timeshare usage very much so I am not speaking for myself at this time of my life.  However, the strict rental restrictions of HGVC and RCI make timeshare ownership less desirable in the big picture of life. With the rise in the number of foreclosures, non-payment of maintenance fees, and people willing to sell their timeshares for nothing a more desirable rental policy may benefit all owners.  Of course, it would probably cut into the profits of the big guys but perhaps the owners should to be able to optimize the benefits of their ownership.



I'd love for someone with an HGVC week to sell it to me for nothing. Standing offer to take anyone's Vegas platinum 2 br off their hands.


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## Tamaradarann (May 12, 2012)

*HGVC ROFR keeps resale price up*



Remy said:


> I'd love for someone with an HGVC week to sell it to me for nothing. Standing offer to take anyone's Vegas platinum 2 br off their hands.



Your implied point about HGVC resale price staying up due to ROFR is acknowledged and agreed.  But we all know that many other timeshares can be bought for nothing, furthermore foreclosures and non-payment of maintenance is a problem for the industry.  I love the HGVC system and at this point in my life use all my points and don't need to rent. I was only expressing my thoughts about the benefits of owners flexibility in renting to try to help keep the entire timeshare industry from defaulting.  Hilton ownership is one system that probably in the best position to survive.  I own another developer week that trades through RCI that I do worry about.


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## Remy (May 12, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> Your implied point about HGVC resale price staying up due to ROFR is acknowledged and agreed.  But we all know that many other timeshares can be bought for nothing, furthermore foreclosures and non-payment of maintenance is a problem for the industry.  I love the HGVC system and at this point in my life use all my points and don't need to rent. I was only expressing my thoughts about the benefits of owners flexibility in renting to try to help keep the entire timeshare industry from defaulting.  Hilton ownership is one system that probably in the best position to survive.  I own another developer week that trades through RCI that I do worry about.



Flamingo doesn't have ROFR. Properties with a low MF in the Hilton system will likely always be the higher priced units even when the artificial inflation of ROFR drops. I'd guess $7k or $1 per point is their natural price point with no outside influence.

One is able to rent a week out rather than face foreclosure. Just reserve it and rent it. If an owner can take one vacation in a year or take so many vacations the years prior and have orphan points to use, one probably is not nearing foreclosure. I'd have a hard time feeling those people need some help from HGVC now that they've burned their points and don't want to pay the MF for them.

I believe, however, this renting rule is no more important than, say, the rules on occupancy. I say, reserve and rent away. As long as you get away with it, no one is harmed. You might get a cryptic call from Jan Anderson some day asking to rent one of your units. I'd suggest not returning that call.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 12, 2012)

I would buy Hilton points, if they helped me get around the 1-in-4 rules with RCI.  I can exchange into Hiltons much cheaper than owning.  Someday, I will make two back-to-back reservations for two weeks each to travel with the kids/grandkids, but for now, I am completely blocked from all Hiltons in Orlando.  

Owning Hilton should have its privileges.  It doesn't with RCI.


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## Talent312 (May 12, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> ...For now, I am completely blocked from all Hiltons in Orlando. Owning Hilton should have its privileges.  It doesn't with RCI.



OTOH, if you owned HGVC and booked thru HGVC, you could book any Orlando HGVC as often as you wanted, and could book various Orlando RCI-resorts, including DVC.


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## rickandcindy23 (May 12, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> OTOH, if you owned HGVC and booked thru HGVC, you could book any Orlando HGVC as often as you wanted, and could book various Orlando RCI-resorts, including DVC.



What is the $ figure for an exchange into DVC with HIlton Points?  I have no clue.  

I can trade into the Hiltons so cheaply, BECAUSE of the 1-in-4.  When my next time comes to use Hilton in RCI, I will do my best to book four weeks at once, same resort, so I can take advantage.  I may even open another RCI account.  It's worth it.


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## Remy (May 12, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> What is the $ figure for an exchange into DVC with HIlton Points?  I have no clue.
> 
> I can trade into the Hiltons so cheaply, BECAUSE of the 1-in-4.  When my next time comes to use Hilton in RCI, I will do my best to book four weeks at once, same resort, so I can take advantage.  I may even open another RCI account.  It's worth it.



It costs 4,800 points per week in a two bedroom (high-demand season) plus the $179 exchange fee. HGVC gives owners of annual two bedroom platinum units 7,000 points per year. You could have a week in an HGVC to RCI exchange with points left over.


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## Talent312 (May 12, 2012)

Remy said:


> It costs 4,800 points per week in a two bedroom (high-demand season) plus the $179 exchange fee.



Note that Hilton's points-to-book chart for TCI is _not_ "RCI points."
How HGVC & RCI arrived at the exchange schedule is a mystery.


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## Tamaradarann (May 12, 2012)

Remy said:


> Flamingo doesn't have ROFR. Properties with a low MF in the Hilton system will likely always be the higher priced units even when the artificial inflation of ROFR drops. I'd guess $7k or $1 per point is their natural price point with no outside influence.
> 
> One is able to rent a week out rather than face foreclosure. Just reserve it and rent it. If an owner can take one vacation in a year or take so many vacations the years prior and have orphan points to use, one probably is not nearing foreclosure. I'd have a hard time feeling those people need some help from HGVC now that they've burned their points and don't want to pay the MF for them.
> 
> I believe, however, this renting rule is no more important than, say, the rules on occupancy. I say, reserve and rent away. As long as you get away with it, no one is harmed. You might get a cryptic call from Jan Anderson some day asking to rent one of your units. I'd suggest not returning that call.



Please clarify the comment "those people need some help form HGVC now that they've burned their points and don't want to pay the MF for them"  Do you mean people who borrow from next year and then don't pay the MF in January?  I usually have 25K points left over from the previous year in December so that can't be me!  If they are doing what you say I have no sympathy either.  I was having sympathy for those that either through financial hardship or health can't vacation and use their points.  They should be able to optimize their reservation and rental options to enable them to pay the MF when they have hardship situations.  

Remy, who is Jan Andersen?


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## gnorth16 (May 12, 2012)

rickandcindy23 said:


> What is the $ figure for an exchange into DVC with HIlton Points?  I have no clue.
> 
> I can trade into the Hiltons so cheaply, BECAUSE of the 1-in-4.  When my next time comes to use Hilton in RCI, I will do my best to book four weeks at once, same resort, so I can take advantage.  I may even open another RCI account.  It's worth it.



HGVC is a great system for the open season and the hard to reserve areas.  BUT... why use my points to reserve a platinum season 2BR when I can exchange into the strip for 20TPU plus $206 exchange fee.  With my TPU cost, it costs me $352 to exchange into the same property.  Points wise, it would cost me $1260, and I would have to borrow just to book. Even the open season would cost $1120.  

I currently have a 3BR Sea World on hold in RCI.  To book through HGVC in Platinum season it would cost $1500 for 8400 points or $373 to exchange into with RCI for the same week.:whoopie: 

We/I go to Vegas and Orlando at least once per year which is why I chose HGVC as my first TS.  As of right now, the main reason I am keeping it is for the 1 in 4 rule so I can make open season reservations when required.  I may just rent my points our to keep my MF's in check just for that.  It was going up for sale but my wife actually told me to keep it...


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## gnorth16 (May 12, 2012)

If it is points based, why differentiate rental policies between your  home resort week/unit type and club season elsewhere?  It's not like you are taking away from home season at a different resort...you simply cannot book it.  Once the 9 month mark opens up, it should be fair game for all....personal use or rentals. Some people want to cover MF's and by booking the home resort, it may not be possible based on season and location...


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## Remy (May 13, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> Please clarify the comment "those people need some help form HGVC now that they've burned their points and don't want to pay the MF for them"  Do you mean people who borrow from next year and then don't pay the MF in January?  I usually have 25K points left over from the previous year in December so that can't be me!  If they are doing what you say I have no sympathy either.  I was having sympathy for those that either through financial hardship or health can't vacation and use their points.  They should be able to optimize their reservation and rental options to enable them to pay the MF when they have hardship situations.
> 
> Remy, who is Jan Andersen?



Need some help with looser renting rules. People who can't vacation can rent their ownership. What they can't do is rent any reservation they might make. My point is that very few people hit a financial hardship after burning a portion of their points that wouldn't allow them to make their full home week reservation. I can't imagine going on a 5 day weekend to Vegas and find out six months later that a vacation using my remaining points would break the bank. If so, suck it up and spend the $69 to move them to next year or let them go to waste and set forth on renting next year's home week. I just don't buy that less strict rental rules is the difference between a higher foreclosure rate and a lower one.

Jan Anderson works for HGVC in the resale department. When someone attempts to rent points, she generally comes up with a way to ferret them out. Sometimes by posing as a prospective renter.


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## Remy (May 13, 2012)

gnorth16 said:


> If it is points based, why differentiate rental policies between your  home resort week/unit type and club season elsewhere?  It's not like you are taking away from home season at a different resort...you simply cannot book it.  Once the 9 month mark opens up, it should be fair game for all....personal use or rentals. Some people want to cover MF's and by booking the home resort, it may not be possible based on season and location...



If they allowed for someone to make any reservation and rent it out, we, as normal users of the club for vacations, would never be able to get into Hawaii. I'd buy in Vegas for the sole purpose of booking as many vacations in Hawaii in prime seasons as I could and rent them out for profit. I wouldn't have the demands of my own schedule, I'd just stay up late at night and take all the prime dates I could grab. Then I'd rent them. I'd rent them and rake in money because my Vegas MF is low while Hawaii is high.

The least Hilton can do is make sure the people profiting from rental are paying the high fees and taxes at the resort they're renting out.


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## Tamaradarann (May 13, 2012)

*Hilton negotiated well for Hilton Owners Benefit*



Talent312 said:


> Note that Hilton's points-to-book chart is not based on RCI points.
> How HGVC & RCI arrived at the exchange schedule is a mystery.



I believe Hilton was the first major chain to sign on with RCI and I believe it was a good negotiation (if you don't give me a good exchange formula we are going to II) on Hilton's part to get the exchange schedule that clearly gives Hilton Owners the better end of the trade.  For instance I will be using a 1 BR worth of points (4800) to stay in a 2 BR at the Galleon on Front Street in old Key West this year for the second time.  The first time was in 2008 and that resort has a 1 in 4 rule.


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## Tamaradarann (May 13, 2012)

Remy said:


> Need some help with looser renting rules. People who can't vacation can rent their ownership. What they can't do is rent any reservation they might make. My point is that very few people hit a financial hardship after burning a portion of their points that wouldn't allow them to make their full home week reservation. I can't imagine going on a 5 day weekend to Vegas and find out six months later that a vacation using my remaining points would break the bank. If so, suck it up and spend the $69 to move them to next year or let them go to waste and set forth on renting next year's home week. I just don't buy that less strict rental rules is the difference between a higher foreclosure rate and a lower one.
> 
> Jan Anderson works for HGVC in the resale department. When someone attempts to rent points, she generally comes up with a way to ferret them out. Sometimes by posing as a prospective renter.



Thanks for the information about Jan Anderson.  I have no sympathy for those in the example you describe above.


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## Tamaradarann (May 13, 2012)

*Platinum Ownership at Home Resort Required*



Remy said:


> If they allowed for someone to make any reservation and rent it out, we, as normal users of the club for vacations, would never be able to get into Hawaii. I'd buy in Vegas for the sole purpose of booking as many vacations in Hawaii in prime seasons as I could and rent them out for profit. I wouldn't have the demands of my own schedule, I'd just stay up late at night and take all the prime dates I could grab. Then I'd rent them. I'd rent them and rake in money because my Vegas MF is low while Hawaii is high.
> 
> The least Hilton can do is make sure the people profiting from rental are paying the high fees and taxes at the resort they're renting out.



Remy if you read my previous points I was not suggesting being able to do what you have indicated here.  I was suggesting being able to rent out any period that you own in your home resort during your home season.  I would add, for up to the number of points that you own during that season at that resort.


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## Remy (May 13, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> Remy if you read my previous points I was not suggesting being able to do what you have indicated here.  I was suggesting being able to rent out any period that you own in your home resort during your home season.  I would add, for up to the number of points that you own during that season at that resort.



Correct, I was responding to the other statement that is attached to my response.

I don't disagree with what you describe above. I just disagreed that the health of HGVC is based on points rental flexibility.


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## presley (Aug 7, 2012)

Bumping older thread here, but this thread is relevant to my question(s).  It looks like if I own a season, I can book any week in that season and then rent it out.  My question with that is, do I just contact the resort later on with the guest info?  Is there a guest fee?

Can anyone weigh in on which is the biggest loser:  renting out the week or converting to HHonors points?  I'm just thinking that if I don't have any use for my points next year, I may just want to rent it out or convert and be done with it instead of banking the points and then losing them if I still don't use them.


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## Talent312 (Aug 7, 2012)

presley said:


> Bumping older thread here, but this thread is relevant to my question(s).  It looks like if I own a season, I can book any week in that season and then rent it out.  My question with that is, do I just contact the resort later on with the guest info?  Is there a guest fee?
> 
> Can anyone weigh in on which is the biggest loser:  renting out the week or converting to HHonors points?  I'm just thinking that if I don't have any use for my points next year, I may just want to rent it out or convert and be done with it instead of banking the points and then losing them if I still don't use them.



Typically, book a "home week," rent it, then call HGVC for a Guest Confirmation... 
Guest Confimations are complimentary ($39 for Club Reservations). --Guide, pg.164.

The only way to know if it's better to convert to HH is to compare your expected net rental income against how much $$ your points could save you at a hotel.  If you can net $1000 (not saying you will) that's like 8N in a hotel @$125/N. Would you get enuff points to cover that?


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## SmithOp (Aug 7, 2012)

presley said:


> Bumping older thread here, but this thread is relevant to my question(s).  It looks like if I own a season, I can book any week in that season and then rent it out.  My question with that is, do I just contact the resort later on with the guest info?  Is there a guest fee?
> 
> Can anyone weigh in on which is the biggest loser:  renting out the week or converting to HHonors points?  I'm just thinking that if I don't have any use for my points next year, I may just want to rent it out or convert and be done with it instead of banking the points and then losing them if I still don't use them.



Book a holiday week in your season.  I have gold at HHV and always book Memorial Day week with my home resort advantage.


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## presley (Aug 7, 2012)

SmithOp said:


> Book a holiday week in your season.  I have gold at HHV and always book Memorial Day week with my home resort advantage.



I was thinking that.  I just worry that if it doesn't rent and I can't use it, then I am really out.


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## SmithOp (Aug 8, 2012)

presley said:


> I was thinking that.  I just worry that if it doesn't rent and I can't use it, then I am really out.



Just cancel 31 days prior and get your points back, no fee.  The reductions in points returned don't kick in until 30 days for home reservations.


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## gnorth16 (Aug 8, 2012)

SmithOp said:


> Just cancel 31 days prior and get your points back, no fee.  The reductions in points returned don't kick in until 30 days for home reservations.



Well done! Then I can book it open season for cheap!:whoopie:  Maybe post any cancellations on the sightings page....


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## presley (Aug 8, 2012)

Sweet.  Thanks for all the info.


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