# Revolution System for NEW Reservations



## amtuguser (Apr 11, 2012)

Tried to make a new reservation today.  Classic system is gone.

Only Revolution.

Revolution is a horrible reservation system compared to Classic.


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## Blues (Apr 11, 2012)

OMG, you're right!  I've already sent in my letter of protest, for what little good it will do.  I encourage others to do the same.  What more can we do?  

Occupy Hilton!   

-Bob


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## Remy (Apr 11, 2012)

The real problem with Revolution is that by the time it loads and you find availability at a limited-availability resort, go through the checkout process and confirm, the reservation availability is gone. In my experience, Revolution will show the error, but not tell you what days are no longer available. It also takes time for Revolution to show the availability is gone even on a reload, so you get to spend time reloading revolution to find what days are truly available, but in that case, I've also gone through the process again to find yet another day has been taken. 

Revolution is truly awful in this regard. For regular resorts with tons of availability it'll work fine.


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## SmithOp (Apr 11, 2012)

*Sent in a note*

Used the contact link.


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## amtuguser (Apr 11, 2012)

Classic also showed more rooms available that Revolution does.

Hilton doesn't care what we want or what is best for owners.  Hilton only cares about making money.


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## HatTrick (Apr 11, 2012)

Blues said:


> Occupy Hilton!



Actually, we should do just the opposite: Let HGVC's properties go *un*occupied until Classic returns.  :annoyed:


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## PigsDad (Apr 11, 2012)

amtuguser said:


> Classic also showed more rooms available that Revolution does.
> 
> Hilton doesn't care what we want or what is best for owners.  *Hilton only cares about making money*.


How, _exactly_, does this make Hilton more money?


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## Remy (Apr 11, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> How, _exactly_, does this make Hilton more money?



I'm guessing Revolution cost them a small fortune. It's a nice whiz-bang if they were to show it in a sales presentation, but I can't imagine someone being less likely to buy based on the reservation system appearance at a presentation. I'd agree it's not a money-maker and I'm baffled that they'd remove the classic system running concurrently with it since Revoluton prevents users of prolific mobile devices from booking online.


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## linsj (Apr 11, 2012)

I, too, sent a protest letter. I'm expecting a canned reply that won't say anything, but maybe if enough people object to Revolution they will bring back Classic.


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## amtuguser (Apr 11, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> How, _exactly_, does this make Hilton more money?





I think the confusion is I did not say Hilton would make more money from the lousy Revolution reservation system.  

I said Hilton doesn't care what we want or what is best for owners. Hilton only cares about making money, and I stilll believe that is true.

If Hilton cared what was best for us or what owners wanted then Classic would still be available for changing and making new reservations and Hilton would develop a resort in a site other than Orlando, Las Vegas or Oahu.


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## Talent312 (Apr 11, 2012)

Hilton will chalk up our objections to a few disgruntled malcontents, stuck in the past and unwilling to accept change, rather than admit that they've got a crappy product on their hands. They prolly think that the static from the "little people" will pass and we'll "get used to it."


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## alwysonvac (Apr 11, 2012)

*Time for a Coordinated Effort to SAVE THE CLASSIC RESERVATION SYSTEM!!*

Let's hope the Classic Reservation System was taken away by accident but if not, then it's time for the coordinated effort.
We'll only be successful if we work together  

But please remember to be courteous (no one wants to talk to an insulting or crazy person).
Basically explain the issue (without going into a rant) and your expect outcome. 

We need to organize our thoughts and stick to the facts.
(1) Why do you feel that the Classic system must remain? 
(2) What has been your experience with the Revolution Reservation System? Be specific. 
(3) What exactly don't you like about the Revolution Reservation system? 
(4) What changes must occur in the Revolution System before the Classic system can ever go away?

Keep in mind that...
(a) If the Revolution Reservation system was the primary portal to book hilton hotel rooms, customers would simply choose somewhere else to stay because it's cumbersome to use. Why should we be forced to use an inferior system?
(b) Without logging in, you can quickly get to the hgvc.com site
(c) Without logging in, you can quickly get to the Explore Resort Section off the hgvc.com main site and see a description, photos, floorplans. point charts - http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/Resorts.aspx#details/index&resortId=59&backFunctionality=0


Here's a suggestion for a plan of action....

*week of April 15 (week #1) *- send emails to HGVC contact at input@hgvc.com

*week of April 22 (week #2) *- send emails or letters to both the President and the Senior Vice President of HGVC

Mark Wang 
President 
mwang@hgvc.com
http://portal.arda.org/content/directory/page/0031300.pdf

Kim Robert Kreiger
Senior Vice President, Club and Resorts
kkreiger@hgvc.com 
http://portal.arda.org/app/directory/index.cfm?dir=Chairman&id=0031300&pid=1304351

Hilton Grand Vacations Company, LLC 
5323 Millenia Lakes Boulevard
Suite 400
Orlando, FL 32839

*week of April 29 (week #3)* - post comments on facebook & twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/hiltongrandvac
www.facebook.com/HiltonGrandVacations

*week of May 6 (week #4)* -  find a public survey or voting sites to air our displeasure.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 12, 2012)

*Revolution System Compiles all Info each Time*

I have complained to Hilton about the slowness of the Revolution System since it compiles all the availability for 365 days for all the resorts for each member since ownership privileges change for each individual every time a new reservation or change reservation is accessed.  They say they are working on a solution.  The Classic system on compiled the information for one resort for a brief period so it was much speedier.  

I believe we all should complain about the slowness due to the excess compiling which slows the system down.

I have called at least 5 times and written 4 e-mails already and will continue to complain as I did yesterday and again today until I am satisfied.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 12, 2012)

*Hilton Resorts in other places*



amtuguser said:


> I think the confusion is I did not say Hilton would make more money from the lousy Revolution reservation system.
> 
> I said Hilton doesn't care what we want or what is best for owners. Hilton only cares about making money, and I stilll believe that is true.
> 
> If Hilton cared what was best for us or what owners wanted then Classic would still be available for changing and making new reservations and Hilton would develop a resort in a site other than Orlando, Las Vegas or Oahu.



I know that there are not Hilton resorts in that many places, however, you exaggerate that they are only in O, LV, and Oahu.  They are also in South Beach, South Carolina, San Diego, Colorado, Portugal, Scotland and NYC.


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## amtuguser (Apr 12, 2012)

Tamaradarann said:


> I know that there are not Hilton resorts in that many places, however, you exaggerate that they are only in O, LV, and Oahu.  They are also in South Beach, South Carolina, San Diego, Colorado, Portugal, Scotland and NYC.



Hilton has plans for 3 new towers in Oahu. 

Two in HHV:

Star Advertiser  
City approves permit for Hilton Hawaiian Village expansion 
By Star-Advertiser staff
POSTED: 12:39 p.m. HST, Dec 07, 2011 
The City Council today approved permit requests for the $760 million expansion of the Hilton Hawaiian Village.
The special management and planned development-resort permits for the expansion project both were approved unanimously over objections raised by a family that leases a portion of the land under the Diamond Head Tower to Hilton.
The Mun family says its property was included as part of the project without its approval, attorney Cal Chipchase IV said. He sought a deferral of the permits to give the parties more time to settle issues related to the Muns' access to their property, which they contend would be affected by the development.
Councilman Ikaika Anderson, the Council's Zoning Committee chairman, urged the parties to continue working on an agreement as the project moves forward. Chipchase said he would discuss the matter with his clients to see how they would like to proceed.
The expansion would add 550 time-share units, swimming pools, parking and expanded retail space to the Hilton's 22-acre resort, which consists of seven hotel and time-share towers.

And one off property location.http://www.loyaltyhacker.com/timeshares/hilton-grand-vacations/hgvc-expansion-adds-off-beach-oahu-hawaii-resort/

They just expanded in Las Vegas where there are plenty of rooms most of the year.


NYC has limited rooms and difficult reservation requirements.

I believe Scotland has limited rooms too.

Where else is Hilton expanding or adding Resorts to improve the portfolio?


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## linsj (Apr 12, 2012)

*Alwysonvac,* I like your specific call to action.

Before I wrote my e-mail the other day, I timed the Revolution loading while in an HGVC unit--11 minutes--and mentioned that. I also said I could complete a reservation in the Classic system in less time than it takes for Revolution to load.


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## Remy (Apr 12, 2012)

linsj said:


> I, too, sent a protest letter. I'm expecting a canned reply that won't say anything, but maybe if enough people object to Revolution they will bring back Classic.



More power to you if you get a reply. I emailed when the change system wasn't working and received no response. It's been a couple weeks.


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## Blues (Apr 12, 2012)

amtuguser said:


> I believe Scotland has limited rooms too.



Yep.  I got up early while on vacation to Disneyland last November, while my wife and granddaughter slept, just to book the moment it was open, at the 9 month window, for this August.  I managed to find 5 days in Craigendarroch, but it wasn't easy.

- It was for 5 days, not 7 that I wanted
- In a 1BR, whereas I wanted a 2 or 3 (I knew 3 was a long shot)
- A few days later in my vacation than I had hoped
- I did get Craigendarroch, which was my first choice.  But I had the agent check the other two for my preferred parameters.  The others had nothing whatsoever.

Of course, August is when everyone in Europe and Britain goes on vacation.  But I'd call that limited availability


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## alwysonvac (Apr 12, 2012)

linsj said:


> *Alwysonvac,* I like your specific call to action.
> 
> Before I wrote my e-mail the other day, I timed the Revolution loading while in an HGVC unit--11 minutes--and mentioned that. I also said I could complete a reservation in the Classic system in less time than it takes for Revolution to load.



Thanks, I was thinking the same thing about documenting the Revolution loading time. I'm planning to document my speed first through speedtest.net then launch the Revolution system and document how long it takes to load using IE8.


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## linsj (Apr 12, 2012)

Someone mentioned in the other thread about Revolution that it doesn't work on an iPad, which also means it doesn't work on iPhones--another point to make when writing/talking to customer service.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 13, 2012)

*Hilton is Expanding in South Beach and I love Waikiki*



amtuguser said:


> Hilton has plans for 3 new towers in Oahu.
> 
> Two in HHV:
> 
> ...



Hilton will be expanding its 2 building South Beach location to 3 buildings on Ocean Drive. This resort is difficult to get into at times.  

 I love Waikiki, and the lack of availability there versus the rest of the Hilton resorts makes it essential that they have more expansion there.  I bet they could fill 10 more buildings in Waikiki.  I agree with you that more Vegas and Orlando is not a good investment.  They should expand other places rather than those two.


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## Blues (Apr 13, 2012)

*Hilton's Response*

Dear Mr. xxxx,

Thank you for taking the time to express your frustration with the
online Club Member reservation system.  Our technical team is currently
upgrading the performance of the Revolution booking engine - and we are
launching a much faster reservation experience next week.  

It is never our intention to frustrate our Club Members.  In fact, it
was our pursuit of showing all available units at all Club properties
that inadvertently created the slow-down of our system's performance.
We are recalibrating our data format now to greatly reduce the waiting
time for available accommodations to be displayed.

On March 15, 2012 federally mandated ADA requirements took effect,
necessitating our compliance with enhanced disclosure and communication
policies.  Unfortunately, our Classic reservation system did not support
the required disclosures, nor did it allow reservations to be
"changeable".  Both of these factors prompted us to phase out the
Classic reservation system.  

We are actively improving our technology resources to better support the
needs of Club Members like you.  We agree with your observation that we
can improve our online experience and we are committed to doing so as
quickly and efficiently as possible.  In the meantime, if our service
team may be of assistance, please don't hesitate to be in touch.

Thank you,

Rafael Faria
Supervisor, Owner and Call Center Services 
Hilton Grand Vacations Club
6355 MetroWest Blvd. STE 180
Orlando, FL 32835


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## Talent312 (Apr 13, 2012)

Their trashing of Classic is, IMHO, not worth the bandwidth with which it was transmitted.
As for their promises: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."
-- Cervantes, _Don Quixote._


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## HatTrick (Apr 13, 2012)

Blues said:


> Unfortunately, our Classic reservation system did not... allow reservations to be "changeable".



"So all those reservations you _thought_ you changed using Classic? You were only dreaming..."






_Stay gullible, my friends._


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## alwysonvac (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks Blues  

Here's what I found on the ADA site



> From http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/factsheets/title3_factsheet.html
> 
> *Fact Sheet: Highlights of the Final Rule to Amend the Department of Justice's Regulation Implementing Title III of the ADA*
> 
> ...


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## linsj (Apr 14, 2012)

Blues said:


> Dear Mr. xxxx,
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to express your frustration with the
> online Club Member reservation system.  Our technical team is currently
> ...



I got the same reply, but I can't figure out how I made all those changes to my reservations under the Classic system when it didn't allow them to be changeable.


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## Blues (Apr 14, 2012)

linsj said:


> I got the same reply, but I can't figure out how I made all those changes to my reservations under the Classic system when it didn't allow them to be changeable.



I purposely didn't comment on the content, to give other TUGgers a chance to respond.  But yeah, the changeable thing was clearly untrue.  I'm pretty skeptical of the ADA claim, too.  I mean, just having Classic *available* as an option doesn't prevent someone with needs from using Revolution, or calling in a reservation.  I'm pretty sure those options would pass ADA muster.

It seems like a bunch of excuses for justifying a decision that was already made by management.  To me, at least.  But I haven't responded to Mr. Faria's email.

-Bob


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## JackieC2 (Apr 14, 2012)

I no longer can see my points or make a reservation at NY Hilton Club. I log into the Hilton Club site and all I see are my points for HGVC. I called today and the agent could not help me. I asked her to report it to the IT department. She said it was already reported. 

I told her of my frustration with the Revolution system and she was down right rude.


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## dvc_john (Apr 14, 2012)

deleted...


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## Talent312 (Apr 14, 2012)

JackieC2 said:


> I told her of my frustration with the Revolution system and she was down right rude.



... at which point I would have asked to speak to a supervisor.
... not that I like to be difficult, myself, but one must call BS for what it is.


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## Blues (Apr 14, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> ... at which point I would have asked to speak to a supervisor.
> ... not that I like to be difficult, myself, but one must call BS for what it is.



I would have done the same, but remained very polite.

My guess is that the CSA's are getting a lot of flak for Revolution, and are tired of hearing about it.  The more we can escalate that displeasure up the food chain, the more likely we are to have them do something about it (chances going from none to  slim).


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## JackieC2 (Apr 14, 2012)

Agree. I sent an email to Mr. Wang. I did not mention the rude agent. I had to call back and make a reservation and of course, got her again. This time she was very nice. Maybe realized she has a little rude the last time.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 16, 2012)

*Latest response*

I sent the following email to input@hgvc.com Friday morning.

Dear Member Services,
Please forward this email to the appropriate Department.
I’m writing to alert you that the link to the Classic Reservation System is missing on the home page. I haven’t seen anything in writing that this was going away. Has the Classic Reservation System been officially removed? If not, then when will it return? 
Thank You,


Here's the response I just received today....

*"Thank you for contacting us.  The following is a letter from our VP addressing the reservation engines.  Thank you.*


> Dear Club Members,
> 
> In today’s technology-driven world, there are more ways than ever to stay connected to the people and products of our preference.  On behalf of Hilton Grand Vacations, I want to acknowledge that our Club Member website is not currently delivering the efficiency or effectiveness we had envisioned.  I apologize for the frustration expressed by many Club Members, and I want to share some relevant information about the online experience:
> 
> ...


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## Remy (Apr 16, 2012)

That makes more sense. Upgrading two programs to differentiate between regular and ADA rooms is an added expense. It doesn't really excuse the fact that the reservation change portion of Revolution doesn't work. At all. Ever.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 16, 2012)

All I want from Revolution is: 
(1) better response time. I shouldn't have to wait forever for the system or page to load.
(2) a changeable reservation option that works without losing your existing reservation
(3) a single page summary of the unit sizes & dates available for each resort during Open Season (similar to the Classic system). I sent an email in 2009 asking for this feature in Revolution. I'm not asking to book from the summary page. I just want to quickly glance at all of my last minute getaway options on a single page.


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## Talent312 (Apr 16, 2012)

At least we have Kim Kreiger's attention
_... and a tacit acknowledgement of shortcomings by their IT geeks._

Perhaps they'll come up with something like RCI's search engine.


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## amtuguser (Apr 17, 2012)

Mr Kreiger wrote "This year, a new federal mandate required us to enable Members to book ADA rooms online by April 1, 2012. This complex process required us to focus on enhancing a single reservations system, and the revision of Revolution offered the best functionality. Accordingly, the Classic reservation has been phased out."

I do not see any mandate that says you may not have more than one reservation system or that every reservation system must include the ability to book ADA rooms

It appears as long as members are enabled to book ADA rooms online by April 1, 2012 it would satisfy the federal mandate. Revolution would satisfy that mandate.

Classic could still be available if HGVC wanted it to  be.  

And since Kreiger admits the system is "not currently delivering the efficiency or effectiveness we had envisioned."    HGVC should put Classic back until Revolution works efficiently and effectively.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 17, 2012)

amtuguser said:


> I do not see any mandate that says you may not have more than one reservation system or that every reservation system must include the ability to book ADA rooms.



It won't be equal/fair if the Classic Reservation system existed.

The Americans with Disabilities Act gives civil rights protections to individuals with disabilities similar to those provided to individuals on the basis of race, color, sex, national origin, age, and religion. It guarantees equal opportunity for individuals with disabilities in public accommodations, employment, transportation, State and local government services, and telecommunications.

From Americans with Disabilities Act Title III Regulations - http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleIII_2010/titleIII_2010_regulations.htm
*Subpart B – General Requirements
36.202 Activities.*

(a) _Denial of participation_. A public accommodation shall not subject an individual or class of individuals on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, to a denial of the opportunity of the individual or class to participate in or benefit from the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation. 

(b) _Participation in unequal benefit_. A public accommodation shall not afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, with the opportunity to participate in or benefit from a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals. 

(c) _Separate benefit._ A public accommodation shall not provide an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements with a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is different or separate from that provided to other individuals, unless such action is necessary to provide the individual or class of individuals with a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation, or other opportunity that is as effective as that provided to others.


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## amtuguser (Apr 17, 2012)

alwysonvac said:


> It won't be equal/fair if the Classic Reservation system existed.



Then how does HGVC have two phone reservation systems?  Elite members have a different phone number with shorter wait times for Club Counselors.

Under your explanation that is not fair and equal.

MAKE HGVC GIVE ELITE STATUS TO EVERYONE!  Oorah!


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## Blues (Apr 17, 2012)

alwysonvac said:


> It won't be equal/fair if the Classic Reservation system existed.



I wonder if that's true.  It seems to me that, as long as both systems operate on identical inventory, it would be both equal and fair.  But neither you nor I are lawyers (I assume), so it's speculation.  Perhaps Hilton doesn't want to be a test case.

-Bob


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## amtuguser (Apr 17, 2012)

Where does the line blur?

Public accomodation vs usage of our ownership rights.

If you were making a reservation for your home week, at your home resort for the week listed on the deed, wouldn't that reservation be an exception to Public accomodation?


IMHO, there may be a difference between a hotel reservation and a reservation for use of your own ownership.


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## Matman (Apr 17, 2012)

I just went on the Revolution site and it appears that they DID make some modifications to the speed of the systems. It only took 10 seconds from the time that I clicked on "Book Now" to when the chart popped up. 

Much improvement over the way that it used to work.

Lets hope that they continue to make improvements to the speed of the system.


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## jlee2070 (Apr 17, 2012)

Humm, they removed the ability to see all of the resorts in a Region (such as the 3 in HHV - Lagoon, Kalia, and Waikikian).  Can only view one but not all three at once (which was possible before)...

 :annoyed:


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## amtuguser (Apr 17, 2012)

jlee2070 said:


> Humm, they removed the ability to see all of the resorts in a Region (such as the 3 in HHV - Lagoon, Kalia, and Waikikian).  Can only view one but not all three at once (which was possible before)...
> 
> :annoyed:



Actually you can look at all  three buildings in Oahu, Lagoon Kalia and Grand Waikikian by clicking View All Resorts in Region.


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## jlee2070 (Apr 17, 2012)

amtuguser said:


> Actually you can look at all  three buildings in Oahu, Lagoon Kalia and Grand Waikikian by clicking All Rrsorts in Region.



Nope, not there anymore...


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## amtuguser (Apr 17, 2012)

I just looked you can look at all three Oahu buildings at one time.

In the Select Destination Click,  Click here to select the destination region, then  another screen comes up, scroll down to Hawaii Oahu and it will list 3 buildings.

Below in the same box you can click View all Resorts in Region.

For each destination the bottom selection is VIEW ALL RESORTS IN REGION.


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## poorguy (Apr 17, 2012)

I am not getting an option to select all resorts in region like I used to.

Actually, when it shows the graphic on availability it looks like the "classic" system used to look.  You can now scroll through and view individual availability by day, instead of the blocks of time you needed to do with "revolution"

Loads much faster now.


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## Remy (Apr 17, 2012)

Have you noticed they renamed some of the resorts in the drop-down menu? Now the Kalia Tower and Lagoon Tower are preceded by a lengthy "Hilton Grand Vacations Club at Hilton Hawaiian Village". Oddly, HGVC Marbrisa is labeled "Grand Pacific Marbrisa". Guess it wasn't worthy of an edit.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 17, 2012)

Blues said:


> I wonder if that's true.  It seems to me that, as long as both systems operate on identical inventory, it would be both equal and fair.  But neither you nor I are lawyers (I assume), so it's speculation.  Perhaps Hilton doesn't want to be a test case.
> 
> -Bob



JMHO....Yes, they operate on identical inventory but Classic is faster, Classic has a one page summary page for open season, and it sounds like (I haven't tried it for myself) the Classic changeable reservation may be better than Revolution. So we would have SEPARATE BUT NOT EQUAL systems which I believe would be an ADA violation. 

Again just my opinion.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 17, 2012)

amtuguser said:


> Then how does HGVC have two phone reservation systems?  Elite members have a different phone number with shorter wait times for Club Counselors.
> 
> *Under your explanation that is not fair and equal.*



I don't understand how you came to that conclusion. 

HGVC members with disabilities are not treated differently than HGVC members w/o disabilities via the phone reservation system. Everyone has equal access to the phone reservation system based on their ownership type.  

HGVC hasn't created a separate phone reservation system that doesn't accomodate persons with disabilities.


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## rgong (Apr 17, 2012)

> Much improvement over the way that it used to work.
> 
> Lets hope that they continue to make improvements to the speed of the system.



As of tonight... still a joke. Stuck on about 30% loaded so I came over to TUG to catch up on this thread and read the whole second page of posts. Went back to Revolution and it improved to about 52% loaded.  

Doesn't anyone at HGVC actually try to use their own system?


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## alwysonvac (Apr 18, 2012)

amtuguser said:


> Where does the line blur?
> 
> Public accomodation vs usage of our ownership rights.
> 
> ...



Hmmm... there may be a difference (see below).

The detailed ADA document seems to indicate that the scope is limited to rental accommodations in timeshare properties. I would think that the rule would apply to hilton.com rental reservations at HGVC resorts. But would the ADA mandate also apply to Open Season rental reservations via HGVC's reservation system?

Here's the link to the Revised Final Title III Regulation - http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleIII_2010/titleIII_2010_regulations.htm

Here's what I found in the 2010 Guidance and Section-by-Section Analysis under Section 36.302(e) Hotel Reservations (Sec-97 in the pdf version)



> Section 36.302 of the 1991 title III regulation requires public accommodations to make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures when such modifications are necessary to afford access to any goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations, unless the entity can demonstrate that making such modifications would fundamentally alter the nature of such goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations. Hotels, timeshare resorts, and other places of lodging are subject to this requirement and must make reasonable modifications to reservations policies, practices, or procedures when necessary to ensure that individuals with disabilities are able to reserve accessible hotel rooms with the same efficiency, immediacy, and convenience as those who do not need accessible guest rooms.
> 
> Each year the Department receives many complaints concerning failed reservations. Most of these complaints involve individuals who have reserved an accessible hotel room only to discover upon arrival that the room they reserved is either not available or not accessible. Although problems with reservations services were not addressed in the ANPRM, commenters independently noted an ongoing problem with hotel reservations and urged the Department to provide regulatory guidance. In response, the Department proposed specific language in the NPRM to address hotel reservations. In addition, the Department posed several questions regarding the current practices of hotels and other reservations services including questions about room guarantees and the holding and release of accessible rooms. The Department also questioned whether public accommodations that provide reservations services for a place or places of lodging but do not own, lease (or lease to), or operate a place of lodging—referred to in this discussion as ‘‘third-party reservations services’’—should also be subject to the NPRM’s proposals concerning hotel reservations.
> 
> Although reservations issues were discussed primarily in the context of traditional hotels, the new rule modifies the definition of ‘‘places of lodging’’ to clarify the scope of the rule’s coverage of rental accommodations in timeshare properties, condominium hotels, and mixed-use and corporate hotel facilities that operate as places of public accommodation (as that term is now defined in § 36.104), and the Department received detailed comments, discussed below, regarding the application of reservations requirements to this category of rental accommodations.





> _*Application to rental units in timeshare, vacation communities, and condo-hotels.*_ Because the Department has revised the definition of ‘‘Places of Lodging’’ in the final rule, the reservations requirements now apply to guest rooms and other rental units in timeshares, vacation communities, and condo-hotels where some or all of the units are owned and controlled by individual owners and rented out some portion of time to the public, as compared to traditional hotels and motels that are owned, controlled, and rented to the public by one entity. If a reservations service owns and controls one or more of the guest rooms or other units in the rental property (e.g., a developer who retains and rents out unsold inventory), it is subject to the requirements set forth in § 36.302(e).
> 
> Several commenters expressed concern about any rule that would require accessible units that are owned individually to be removed from the rental pool and rented last. Commenters pointed out that this would be a disadvantage to the owners of accessible units because they would be rented last, if at all. Further, certain vacation property managers consider holding specific units back to be a violation of their ethical responsibility to present all properties they manage at an equal advantage. To address these concerns, the Department has added § 36.302(e)(2), which exempts reservations for individual guest rooms and other units that are not owned or substantially controlled by the entity that owns, leases, or operates the overall facility from the requirement that accessible guest rooms be held back from rental until all other guest rooms of that type have been rented. Section 36.302(e)(2) also exempts such rooms from requirements for blocking and guaranteeing reserved rooms. In resort developments with mixed ownership structures, such as a resort where some units are operated as hotel rooms and others are owned and controlled individually, a reservations service operated by the owner of the hotel portion may apply the exemption only to the rooms that are not owned or substantially controlled by the entity that owns, manages, or otherwise controls the overall facility.
> 
> ...


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## alwysonvac (Apr 18, 2012)

*More info*

from Sec-167, 168 & 169



> *Section 36.406(c) Places of Lodging*
> 
> In the NPRM, the Department proposed a new definition for public accommodations that are “places of lodging’’ and a new Sec. 36.406(c) to clarify the scope of coverage for places of public accommodation that meet this definition. For many years the Department has received inquiries from members of the public seeking clarification of ADA coverage of rental accommodations in timeshares, condominium hotels, and mixed-use and corporate hotel facilities that operate as places of public accommodation (as that term is now defined in Sec. 36.104). These facilities, which have attributes of both residential dwellings and transient lodging facilities, have become increasingly popular since the ADA’s enactment in 1990 and make up the majority of new hotel construction in some vacation destinations. The hybrid residential and lodging characteristics of these new types of facilities, as well as their ownership characteristics, complicate determinations of ADA coverage, prompting questions from both industry and individuals with disabilities. While the Department has interpreted the ADA to encompass these hotel-like facilities when they are used to provide transient lodging, the regulation previously has specifically not addressed them. In the NPRM, the Department proposed a new Sec. 36.406(c), entitled “Places of Lodging,’’ which was intended to clarify that places of lodging, including certain timeshares, condominium hotels, and mixed-use and corporate hotel facilities, shall comply with the provisions of the proposed standards, including, but not limited to, the requirements for transient lodging in sections 224 and 806 of the 2004 ADAAG.
> 
> ...


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## alwysonvac (Apr 18, 2012)

*Continued*

on Sec-169, 170 & 171



> *Application of ADA to places of lodging that contain individually owned units. *The Department believes that regardless of ownership structure for individual units, rental programs (whether they are on- or off-site) that make transient lodging guest rooms available to the public must comply with the general nondiscrimination requirements of the ADA. In addition, as provided in Sec. 36.406(c), newly constructed facilities that contain accommodations intended to be used for transient lodging purposes must comply with the 2010 Standards.
> 
> In the NPRM, the Department asked for public comment on several issues related to ensuring the availability of accessible units in a rental program operated by a place of lodging. The Department sought input on how it could address a situation in which a new or converted facility constructs the required number of accessible units, but the owners of those units choose not to participate in the rental program; whether the facility has an obligation to encourage or require owners of accessible units to participate in the rental program; and whether the facility developer, the condominium association, or the hotel operator has an obligation to retain ownership or control over a certain number of accessible units to avoid this problem.
> 
> ...


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## amtuguser (Apr 18, 2012)

Reply Deleted.


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## danoquinn (Apr 18, 2012)

I noticed on the Revolution pull down menus they have deleted the "View all resorts" tab.  Now you can only check one resort at a time.  Maybe this was done to speed up the Revolution system since the demise of the Classic system.  It didn't seem any faster to me if that is was reason and now you have to check the resorts individually for available inventory.


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## itradehilton (Apr 18, 2012)

I don't like the removable of the view all resorts, it just means three different searches now for Carlsbad.


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## SmithOp (Apr 18, 2012)

I suppose we should be happy that changes are being made, it may get worse before it gets better. What fun being beta testers!


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## alwysonvac (Apr 18, 2012)

*Please continue to write in to express your displeasure*

HGVC doesn't appear to have a good track record in resolving their system issues in a timely fashion.
So I hope members will continue to send emails/letters to express their displeasure and to provide details on the improvements/enhancements they would like to see from Hilton's online system. 

Hopefully a signficiant increase in member feedback/inquires will influence HGVC to get their system issues addressed sooner rather than later.

THE FACTS:
(1) The REVOLUTION reservation system was launched in July 2008 and some of the concerns that members had then are still a concern 3+ years later
Anyone see the NEW HGVC website? [July 2008] - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77181
Are you using "Revolution" for booking? [July 2010] - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126636
Online "Classic" reservations gone [July 2011] - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150762

(2) HGVC had 18 months to respond to the ADA mandate. They made the decision to remove CLASSIC and to ignore the issues that were causing members to stay on CLASSIC. Instead, based on the number of problems reported on TUG, it seemed like they waited until the absolute last moment (just weeks before taking down CLASSIC) to support the changeable reservation option in REVOLUTION
Changeable Reservation Glitch [March 2012] - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167965
Revolution System for Changing Reservations [April 2012] - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168538

(3) Overall access to the system was completely unavailable for long stretches at a time during the end of the year.
No log in and extra fees [December 2011] - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161498


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## izzykool (Apr 19, 2012)

*HGVC Addresses Revolution/Classic Concern*

If you log onto your HGVC site you will notice a big letter from one the suits regarding the concerns they have gotten from club owners regarding the Revo System.  

As noted above, she states in order to be in compliance with ADA regulations they needed to make the change and gradually phase out the classic system.  Not sure why they couldn't keep both?

BUT, its posted on your screen as soon as you log in.

Maybe someone is listening?


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## jestme (Apr 19, 2012)

izzykool said:


> BUT, its posted on your screen as soon as you log in.
> 
> Maybe someone is listening?



I logged in, Sorry, I don't see anything there. 
Besides, having to do it for ADA has nothing to do with removing functionality and providing a poor, ineffective product. They have known about the impending targets for two years and have done little to fix the system problems already identified in that time. Only when the system came to it's knees, kept crashing, and their call center was probably going nuts trying to keep up did they attempt to address the response time issue identified years ago. It's probably why they eliminated the "select all resorts in the region" option as well. The ADA excuse is just that, an excuse for not having done an adequate job in the first place.


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## night0wl (Apr 20, 2012)

Any way to see open season availability at the affiliates without having to call in anymore????

This "upgrade" is a cluster...and I'm seriously thinking of getting out of HGVC.  We've been members for a few years, and between the increasing nickle/dime fees, I'm looking for a better customer service experience.  Hyatt anyone??


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## izzykool (Apr 20, 2012)

jestme said:


> I logged in, Sorry, I don't see anything there.
> Besides, having to do it for ADA has nothing to do with removing functionality and providing a poor, ineffective product. They have known about the impending targets for two years and have done little to fix the system problems already identified in that time. Only when the system came to it's knees, kept crashing, and their call center was probably going nuts trying to keep up did they attempt to address the response time issue identified years ago. It's probably why they eliminated the "select all resorts in the region" option as well. The ADA excuse is just that, an excuse for not having done an adequate job in the first place.



I'm not disputing anything you said, but when I log on I see it.  And I was just quoting what was stated in the letter.


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## linsj (Apr 26, 2012)

The regional view is back, and the system is loading much quicker than it used to, so they are improving it. But I still want Classic back! It was _much_ easier to see availability instead of moving that stupid slider bar.


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## jlee2070 (Apr 26, 2012)

linsj said:


> The regional view is back, and the system is loading much quicker than it used to, so they are improving it. But I still want Classic back! It was _much_ easier to see availability instead of moving that stupid slider bar.



GREAT... Now if they just show the correct start dates for changing reservations...  Still shows off by one day from the original checkin...


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## linsj (Apr 26, 2012)

jlee2070 said:


> GREAT... Now if they just show the correct start dates for changing reservations...  Still shows off by one day from the original checkin...



Yeah, apparently they can only work on one problem at a time--for a long time.


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## Andythefox (Apr 26, 2012)

I called reservations today. They said there are no plans to show open season availability at the affiliates again. Whether the girl knew what she was talking about, or not, she was pretty adamant that the only way to book affiliates from here on in is to call and hope for the best.

Pathetic


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## linsj (Apr 27, 2012)

Andythefox said:


> I called reservations today. They said there are no plans to show open season availability at the affiliates again. Whether the girl knew what she was talking about, or not, she was pretty adamant that the only way to book affiliates from here on in is to call and hope for the best.
> 
> Pathetic



Maybe if they are overwhelmed with calls, they'll rethink this move.


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## Sandy VDH (May 22, 2012)

Dates are still wrong.  They show up on the list as 1 date, the details have the same date, but when I pull up the reservation in changable mode the dates are listed as 1 day earlier. 

Has anyone had any issues on dates upon checkin.  Or do that dates on the paper reservation work out as the right dates.


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## eugeneleemd (May 28, 2012)

*trouble changing reservation/making a new one*

hi, working off a new macbook. tried to change an existing reservation and the area where revolution normally shows up is blank. doesn't show loading status or anything for 10 min (i gave up and tried to click back without any problems). the same thing happens when i try to make a new reservation. anyone else having problems with booking now? thanks


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## Remy (May 28, 2012)

eugeneleemd said:


> hi, working off a new macbook. tried to change an existing reservation and the area where revolution normally shows up is blank. doesn't show loading status or anything for 10 min (i gave up and tried to click back without any problems). the same thing happens when i try to make a new reservation. anyone else having problems with booking now? thanks



Apple no longer pre-loads Flash on their computers. You will need to download it and install it. 

http://www.adobe.com/support/flashplayer/downloads.html


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## eugeneleemd (May 28, 2012)

thanks remy. that fixed it.


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## Sandy VDH (May 29, 2012)

What about flash on iPad?


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## loosefeet (May 29, 2012)

Out of luck using the HGVC system on be IPad.  You have to use Classis (now gone).


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## Talent312 (May 30, 2012)

loosefeet said:


> Out of luck using the HGVC system on be IPad.  You have to use Classic (now gone).



Lessee, the HOA board members bought themselves iPads to assist in meetings, but they can't use 'em to reserve stays for those meetings. Nice irony.


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## Pronkster (Jun 10, 2012)

Anything new on HGVC fixing the problem with being able to add an extra day each night to an existing reservation as we were able to do with the old system?  I am concerned that with this not working any longer under the new system, we will no longer be able to get the room we like each year in Hawaii. 

My sister in law is also interested in buying a resale unit specifically to use each summer in Hawaii, but I am reluctant to advise her to do so if we are no longer going to be able to add days to our existing reservations as we have in the past.  

Any new information would be very helpful!


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## Remy (Jun 10, 2012)

Pronkster said:


> Anything new on HGVC fixing the problem with being able to add an extra day each night to an existing reservation as we were able to do with the old system?  I am concerned that with this not working any longer under the new system, we will no longer be able to get the room we like each year in Hawaii.
> 
> My sister in law is also interested in buying a resale unit specifically to use each summer in Hawaii, but I am reluctant to advise her to do so if we are no longer going to be able to add days to our existing reservations as we have in the past.
> 
> Any new information would be very helpful!



It still doesn't work. It also continues to state the reservation dates incorrectly. Status quo.


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## bastroum (Jun 10, 2012)

*Adding 1 Day at a time to Reservation*

Has anyone had experience calling on the telephone adding 1 day at a time to an existing reservation with any success since the Classic System was deleted?


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## eugeneleemd (Jun 10, 2012)

*adding to existing reservation issue*

hi, have an existing reservation for grand waikikian in 2013. wanted to add to the existing 6 days i have reserved and it said i needed to borrow from 2014 points. BUT, i already have 14k point for 2013 and i rescued 6000 points from 2012, so the 20k point should be more than enough to add a few days in the regular 2 bedroom. has anyone else had an issue with the wonderful revolution system no recognizing rescued points???


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## Remy (Jun 10, 2012)

bastroum said:


> Has anyone had experience calling on the telephone adding 1 day at a time to an existing reservation with any success since the Classic System was deleted?



I only tried once so this may not still be the case, but when I called they said I'd have to give up the entire reservation and rebook with the additional days at the risk of losing my original reservation while they processed the change. That's pretty much what Revolution forces you to do so I decided to book a hotel room and call it a day.


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 11, 2012)

The display is still off a day but I actually was able to change a reservation using new system.  I have not been able to do that before. 

I moved out my reservation by a couple of weeks.  Inventory now displays a bit more like the old classic system when you are viewing an individual resort. 

There is now also a button for open season availability, at the very top of the seach page. 

So it look like the upgraded the software in the last couple of days.


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## Remy (Jun 11, 2012)

Sandy Lovell said:


> The display is still off a day but I actually was able to change a reservation using new system.  I have not been able to do that before.
> 
> I moved out my reservation by a couple of weeks.  Inventory now displays a bit more like the old classic system when you are viewing an individual resort.
> 
> ...



Changing a reservation works, but only if you have an existing reservation where other inventory also exists for those days. For instance, if I have 5 days at HHV and want to change it to 7 because two days show up next to my reservation, I can't change it because the 5 days I have aren't also available in another unit. I would have to release my 5 days into inventory and then rebook the entire 7 nights, risking losing my initial 5 nights in the process. At locations with lots of inventory folks aren't as complainy as me, and some others on here, who are trying to change reservations to extend a stay one day at a time at a high-demand location, like HHV. You will not likely run into this issue in Vegas or Orlando where lots of rooms exist and when you change the reservation to extend it you are actually booking a completely different room availability.


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## TheWizz (Jun 11, 2012)

Remy said:


> Changing a reservation works, but only if you have an existing reservation where other inventory also exists for those days. For instance, if I have 5 days at HHV and want to change it to 7 because two days show up next to my reservation, I can't change it because the 5 days I have aren't also available in another unit. I would have to release my 5 days into inventory and then rebook the entire 7 nights, risking losing my initial 5 nights in the process. At locations with lots of inventory folks aren't as complainy as me, and some others on here, who are trying to change reservations to extend a stay one day at a time at a high-demand location, like HHV. You will not likely run into this issue in Vegas or Orlando where lots of rooms exist and when you change the reservation to extend it you are actually booking a completely different room availability.




I had a reservation for 4 days in CO for ~5500 points.  I have ~5000 still available in my account.  I tried to add a 5th day for another 300 points and it would not give me the option to add another night, even thought I have the points available.  I simply called the HGVC Res# and told them what it was doing and they added the 5th day for me for no additional fees.  I started at 3 days, then added the 4th day and was attempting to add the 5th when I hit the error.  I am right at the 9 mo. window so I keep adding a day, each day, until I get to a full week.  I suspect I'll have the same issue tomorrow and will call them again to add the extra day to my existing reservation.


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## xandern (Jun 13, 2012)

*no confirmation*

For the 2 reservations that I made in the past weeks, I did not receive a confirmation like I used to (I did check my spambox). The confirmation that appears on the screen immediately after booking is empty (all fields that should contain information are blank). 
At the HGVC website, I can look up my reservation and everything there is ok.

Does anyone else experience the same thing ? Is this also a new feature of the reservation system ?


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## Remy (Jun 13, 2012)

xandern said:


> For the 2 reservations that I made in the past weeks, I did not receive a confirmation like I used to (I did check my spambox). The confirmation that appears on the screen immediately after booking is empty (all fields that should contain information are blank).
> At the HGVC website, I can look up my reservation and everything there is ok.
> 
> Does anyone else experience the same thing ? Is this also a new feature of the reservation system ?



Yep, same thing. No PDF confirmation via email, just the printable confirmation on screen after the reservation is booked.


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## xandern (Jun 13, 2012)

Remy said:


> Yep, same thing. No PDF confirmation via email, just the printable confirmation on screen after the reservation is booked.



The thing is, that for us even the 'printable' confirmation that appears is an empty confirmation form.


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## Remy (Jun 13, 2012)

xandern said:


> The thing is, that for us even the 'printable' confirmation that appears is an empty confirmation form.



I recall mine was filled out properly with a confirmation number and correct dates, but I didn't try to print it.


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