# Club at Cape Cod....probably closing/switch to another VRI timeshare



## senorak (Jul 25, 2010)

Are there any other TUGgers who own at the Club at Cape Cod (Dennisport)? Just received a lengthy letter yesterday, detailing the possible/probable closing of the resort and possibility of exchanging ownership to another VRI managed resort, (Riverview Resort).  Bought my week several years ago via EBay (good deal, fee paid off; only pay MF now).  This is the first encounter I have had w/ a resort closing, (we own 5 TS weeks).  Just wondering if anyone else is in this predicament?

Deb


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## e.bram (Jul 25, 2010)

Don't exchange, with liquidation you might do OK. You don't need another off season  money sucking pit.


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## timeos2 (Jul 25, 2010)

*Think it over*



senorak said:


> Are there any other TUGgers who own at the Club at Cape Cod (Dennisport)? Just received a lengthy letter yesterday, detailing the possible/probable closing of the resort and possibility of exchanging ownership to another VRI managed resort, (Riverview Resort).  Bought my week several years ago via EBay (good deal, fee paid off; only pay MF now).  This is the first encounter I have had w/ a resort closing, (we own 5 TS weeks).  Just wondering if anyone else is in this predicament?
> 
> Deb



It is unlikely that there will be anything left as the Association / resort appears to be insolvent so ignore eBram's usual, upbeat and positive advice. If the switch offered is very low cost and you are left more or less in the same condition you are now except with a viable unit/resort then the swap of ownership may be the best choice. Obviously if there really is any close out to be paid as an option vs switching then weight the value to you of each choice and decide which you prefer. Again the likelihood is watch your resort close and take little to nothing or get a week at a different resort you can continue to enjoy as you planned to do at Club at Cape Cod.

Read everything carefully and take your time to decide.


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## MichaelColey (Jul 25, 2010)

Consider each alternative and make the decision that's right for you. Research the Riverview Resort resale values and maintenance fees. Expect nothing out of liquidation, and if you do get something consider it a bonus.

1) If you're happy with just four timeshares instead of five:
1a) If Riverview Resort resales have value, accept the exchange and sell it.
1b) If Riverview Resort has no resale value, accept the liquidation and be free of the maintenance fees.​2) If you still want five timeshares, but would rather have something other than Riverview Resort:
2a) If Riverview Resort resales have value, accept the exchange, sell it, and buy what you want.
2b) If Riverview Resort has no resale value, accept the liquidation and buy what you want to replace it.​3) If you still want five timeshares and Riverview Resort is something that appeals to you, accept the exchange.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 25, 2010)

VRI manages other wonderful TS - like the Ft Lauderdale Beach Resort ... a winter escape for several of us Tuggers. VRI has weeks owned by the HOA which they offer at discount to owners ... Get a Friday/Saturday checkin unit on a higher floor. Many like the oceanfront units. Many owners like the 2bdr/2bath lockoff units (MF are around $880/2010), but the 1bdr/1.5 baths are very decent also (MFs $760/2010) or the 1bdr/1ba (MFs $733/2010) which are all oceanfront.


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## senorak (Jul 26, 2010)

Thanks, everyone.  I will be reading all the information _very carefully_ and doing research on Riverview Resort.  I had been considering "downsizing" my TS weeks....just too many piling up, so this closing would give me the opportunity to "get out" w/ only a minimal payment.  (As of now, the  "projected cost" for each interval to cover closing fees is a bit less than $300).  While I have never stayed at my home resort in Cape Cod, I did get some great exchanges to other VRI resorts, (San Francisco in the summer, Sedona Springs), that made it worthwhile to keep this TS.  In fact, just recently traded my 2010 week for a 1BR next year in SF over July 4th week.    If it is very low cost to switch to Riverview, I will probably keep it.  (From the info I received/researched, the MF at RV are actually lower than my current one).  

At this point, I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude.

DEB


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## Conan (Jul 26, 2010)

I own a 2-BR summer week at Riverview and two 1-BR summer weeks at Club at Cape Cod, although I've never stayed there.

Both my Club at Cape Cod weeks are lowball Ebay purchases, so I don't have much at risk.  It's been a near-tiger trader but that's the end of that.

Riverview is a very comfortable and well-run place, good river views but the beaches are about a mile away.  Location is on the heavily touristed main road, so plenty of restaurant choices and a short drive west to Hyannis or east to Nickerson State Park and the Dennis/Chatham area.

The exchange offer probably won't work for me since I can't believe they're going to be able to give me summer weeks at Riverview and that's the only season I would want to own whether renting, using or depositing.

The letter implies that dues for 2011 may be in the $220 range to fund the liqiudation, but that won't get you any use or deposit rights for 2011 since the place will be shut down.  If there's any hope of cash arising from the liquidation than I'd want to pay the $220.  If it's good money after bad the temptation is not to pay; I've never understood why there should be a knock to my credit rating since I own the week free and clear and I don't see why I'd have any contract obligation to make annual payments.


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## senorak (Jul 26, 2010)

My week at Club at Cape Cod is also a 1BR early summer week (early June...think it's week 23).  (Also bought very cheap on Ebay). And it has been a very good trader for me.  I agree w/ you....unless I can get another summer week, (at very low to little cost), I will probably just pay the liquidation fee and be happy w/ my 4 remaining TS weeks.

Deb


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## timeos2 (Jul 26, 2010)

Conan said:


> I've never understood why there should be a knock to my credit rating since I own the week free and clear and I don't see why I'd have any contract obligation to make annual payments.



As part of the deed of any timeshare/condominium the requirement to pay HOA fees is included. It is at the level of taxes - they are due no matter what and the failure to pay is a major credit hit.  Just part of any real estate ownership.


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## timeos2 (Aug 1, 2010)

*A true one time offer you need to reply to*

To all owners at Club at Cape Cod.  After more investigation into this situation it is far more serious than I realized when I first posted.  Your resort is on track to literally have to cease operation by the end of 2011!  There appears to be virtually no chance that even with more assessments and higher annual fees that the resort is viable going forward. 

The nearly unique offer being made to swap for the Riverview Resort may be a really viable and valuable option.  You would be getting a ranked resort that has recently been totally upgraded and, if the plan goes through, the resort will be owner controlled, basically sold out and on extremely solid financial footing. 

Everything considered this looks to be a solid deal that really works in a very seasonal area (Cape Cod) with a fully sold out resort replacing two resorts that weren't ever likely to run comfortably as stand alone but, combined into one location would be an extremely strong operation. It also appears to save money for the owners who otherwise will have to deal with the usually messy process of trying to shutdown a timeshare operation. It is likely to be money paid you'll never get back (although any future fees would of course end once the resort is shutdown and sold). 

If you haven't already I urge you to take a look at the recent mailings that went out to the owners at both resorts and reply by the September 1, 2010 deadline so the needed choices can be made.  

Like the very successful and hard working Board at the Summerbay Resort in Las Vegas that worked out the resort swap/improvement for the owners there this appears to be a one time opportunity that you need to become familiar with and support your Board(s) as they try to make it work.


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## Laurie (Aug 1, 2010)

*attention Riverview owners!*

We may need a new thread for this - we Riverview owners also just got a letter about this, and more:

VI is also withdrawing from Riverview, VI owns 37% of Riverview and is its largest owner. This is 735 intervals. 

"Both VI and we (the board of trustees of Riverview) believe that Riverview is not financially viable without assessment from VI's 735 intervals. But VI is firm in its resolve to terminate its interest in Riverview, even if it means calling for a vote of all Riverview owners to sell Riverview and distribute proceeds, if any, among all Riverview owners."  

Then, more about how Riverview may have to close, and how owners would still have to pay pro-rata share of expenses..

It goes on to discuss situation at Club of Cape Cod.

So. Annual Meeting Sept 11. We can't go...


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## e.bram (Aug 1, 2010)

Why swap? You can get a Riverview TS for $1.00 or less on Ebay.


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## timeos2 (Aug 1, 2010)

*The usual, positive approach we know and love from ...*



e.bram said:


> Why swap? You can get a Riverview TS for $1.00 or less on Ebay.



Makes more sense to pay even $1, plus closing, and taking on new annual fees while still owning at CCC (which means closure costs and fees as they wind down) rather than taking a free swap?  Don't get it.


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## e.bram (Aug 1, 2010)

Yeah! The group doing the swap is doing it out  of the the goodness of their heart.


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## timeos2 (Aug 1, 2010)

*Trying to protect owners and hold down costs*



e.bram said:


> Yeah! The group doing the swap is doing it out  of the the goodness of their heart.



No, it's a plan to protect the owners of two resorts and to pay for a closure plan. If the owners read what is being proposed, rather than reacting automatically with a negative outlook, so favored by some, then they will see that this is a positive answer to a very negative situation.  Two Boards, two vacation clubs and a management company all working together to find an answer that benefits all the owners they represent.


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## e.bram (Aug 1, 2010)

I wonder who is going to end up with the cash when the TS is sold. (a very valuable piece of real estate on a main commercial thoroughfare) It can converted to wholly owned units(office or residential) which will fetch a hefty price. The Riverview units are less than worthless as a TS.
Even if owners get nothing they are free from their MF sinkhole, whereas with the Riverview sinkhole units they are stuck with the MFs that would cost $3500.00 to dump with a PC company.

ps. I am not being negative just realistic. You can get all the Cape Cod off season TSes for a dollar with the sellers happily covering the closing costs(even in Timeos2's Cove at Yarmouth with it's "major renovations" ie no kitchen and paid SA).


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## CassieD (Aug 2, 2010)

*Also own at CCC*

I am also an owner at CCC.  I own week 34, which is the last week of August.  I recently bought this on Ebay for $1.  I thought I did all my research on this resort, but apparently not well enough!  Now I know why I got it so cheap!  I am thinking about doing the trading into Riverview.  The letter said they would give you something comparable to what you are trading.  I wonder what the chances are that I would get a July or August week.  Any ideas?  If I can't, then I'd rather just pay the liquidation cost and forget about the whole thing.  I figure I'll be around 500 to 600 bucks in the hole on this resort that I didn't even get a chance to use, since my membership was to begin in 2011.  :annoyed:


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## timeos2 (Aug 2, 2010)

CassieD said:


> I am also an owner at CCC.  I own week 34, which is the last week of August.  I recently bought this on Ebay for $1.  I thought I did all my research on this resort, but apparently not well enough!  Now I know why I got it so cheap!  I am thinking about doing the trading into Riverview.  The letter said they would give you something comparable to what you are trading.  I wonder what the chances are that I would get a July or August week.  Any ideas?  If I can't, then I'd rather just pay the liquidation cost and forget about the whole thing.  I figure I'll be around 500 to 600 bucks in the hole on this resort that I didn't even get a chance to use, since my membership was to begin in 2011.  :annoyed:



You'll have to talk to them to find out for sure but the letter says there will be similar time available.


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## Conan (Aug 2, 2010)

CassieD said:


> I am thinking about doing the trading into Riverview. The letter said they would give you something comparable to what you are trading. I wonder what the chances are that I would get a July or August week. :annoyed:


 
I"m doubtful they have July-August weeks to offer us at Riverview.

Also, judging from this thread a move from CCC to Riverview is jumping from the fire into the frying pan.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127612


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## e.bram (Aug 2, 2010)

Does this event portend what could happen to any TS with points trust owning many deeds such as Festiva or Innseason cannot or will not pay the MFs.(because of a large number points members bailees)


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## Laurie (Aug 2, 2010)

Conan said:


> I"m doubtful they have July-August weeks to offer us at Riverview.


Will they be able to tell you exactly what you're being be offered, before you cast your vote?


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## e.bram (Aug 2, 2010)

They will tell what you want to hear like the developer sales weasels. What you get???


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## senorak (Aug 2, 2010)

It's my understanding, (from letter I received), that we vote first.....and AFTER the vote, (depending on the outcome of said vote....and AFTER the vote at Riverview)....then CCC owners make a decision----end their relationship, (pay a "liquidation fee"), or opt to shift their week to Riverview.  As of now.....the only information I have received is the long letter detailing the (impending) demise of CCC, and the _possibility_ of joining Riverview.  Supposedly, the vote is to take place in the next few weeks....but I haven't received a ballot yet.

Deb


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## CassieD (Aug 6, 2010)

*Time will tell*

Thanks everyone for your replies.  I will be calling them up to see what they say but I fear they will tell me what I want to hear.  Seems like its a gamble and we are all between a rock and a hard place.  I wonder if we will get any money back if we decide to liquidate and the resort sells.  Any thoughts?  I also have not received my ballot.  Have any of you stayed at CCC or Riverview?  I was looking forward to using my week at CCC next year.  Oh well.


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## timeos2 (Aug 6, 2010)

*May be some but a long ways off*



CassieD said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies.  I will be calling them up to see what they say but I fear they will tell me what I want to hear.  Seems like its a gamble and we are all between a rock and a hard place.  I wonder if we will get any money back if we decide to liquidate and the resort sells.  Any thoughts?  I also have not received my ballot.  Have any of you stayed at CCC or Riverview?  I was looking forward to using my week at CCC next year.  Oh well.



There is a slight chance that you might see a hundred or two out of any sale IF that occurred. The downside being you will be on the hook for payments up until the sale goes through & that isn't likely before 2012 - and assuming there is a quick sale. If it drags on (and there are properties on the Cape I've watched for over a decade that were closed/For Sale in 2000 and are closed/For Sale today!) then you will pay at least minimal upkeep fees for a closed resort until it sells and the funds, if any, dispersed.  

I wouldn't plan on any payout certainly not in the near term. If you want something in hand then the swap may be the best deal to go with.


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## CassieD (Aug 6, 2010)

timeos2 said:


> There is a slight chance that you might see a hundred or two out of any sale IF that occurred. The downside being you will be on the hook for payments up until the sale goes through & that isn't likely before 2012 - and assuming there is a quick sale. If it drags on (and there are properties on the Cape I've watched for over a decade that were closed/For Sale in 2000 and are closed/For Sale today!) then you will pay at least minimal upkeep fees for a closed resort until it sells and the funds, if any, dispersed.
> 
> I wouldn't plan on any payout certainly not in the near term. If you want something in hand then the swap may be the best deal to go with.



OMG John!  What the he** did I do buying this timeshare?!! I'm kicking myself for this one.  I never got to use it and I may be paying for years until it sells???  This is too much!     Hmmm if they close it, then I would just have to pay the liquidation fee and that would be it?  Thanks for your honesty in your response.  I'm thinking I may just do the trade........


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## paluamalia (Aug 8, 2010)

*CCC Closing???*

Hi I live on Cape Cod, and own a condo and a timeshare in Dennisport.  This resort seems to be fully operational and I wonder what they will do with it if it closes.
It's in prime summer territory..will they simply abandon the buildings, etc?  is it closing because owners will not pay MFs?  

VRI took over the management/resort sales and operations of the timeshare I own, Edgewater.  I don't own in summer, just off season to use the facilities, and I've had some good II trades with it.  Hope the things doesn't happen.

It's had to believe that something would just shut down here on CC, are you sure they are not selling it to someone else?


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## e.bram (Aug 8, 2010)

It is a very valuable as whole owner units commercial(offices) or residential(condos). The survivors will do well financially on a sale and whack up the proceeds if not swindled.


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## timeos2 (Aug 8, 2010)

*No such thing as fast sale usually*



e.bram said:


> It is a very valuable as whole owner units commercial(offices) or residential(condos). The survivors will do well financially on a sale and whack up the proceeds if not swindled.



I assume you haven't noticed all the "very valuable" properties in the area sitting vacant & for sale or rent - in many cases for a decade now. Any sale - especially a quick one - is extremely unlikely.


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## Carolinian (Aug 9, 2010)

senorak said:


> Thanks, everyone.  I will be reading all the information _very carefully_ and doing research on Riverview Resort.  I had been considering "downsizing" my TS weeks....just too many piling up, so this closing would give me the opportunity to "get out" w/ only a minimal payment.  (As of now, the  "projected cost" for each interval to cover closing fees is a bit less than $300).  While I have never stayed at my home resort in Cape Cod, I did get some great exchanges to other VRI resorts, (San Francisco in the summer, Sedona Springs), that made it worthwhile to keep this TS.  In fact, just recently traded my 2010 week for a 1BR next year in SF over July 4th week.    If it is very low cost to switch to Riverview, I will probably keep it.  (From the info I received/researched, the MF at RV are actually lower than my current one).
> 
> At this point, I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude.
> 
> DEB



Is this a deeded resort?

There are two different aspects to consider.  One is the real estate value and the other is the balance sheet of the HOA.  In most states, if you own at a resort created before the Uniform Condominium Act was adopted there, one aspect has absolutely nothing to do with the other. If you are in a Uniform Condominium Act resort, unless there is a local modification of the uniform act, then HOA debts can do against the real estate but only to the value of the real estate.  They cannot come after owners personaly for anything.

In short, in most states, in a pre-UCA resort, you are entitled to your portion of the real estate value and have no liability or offset for any HOA debts.  In a UCA resort, in most states, the HOA debts can be offset against real estate value but they cannot make you pay anything beyond that.

You need to get a copy of the relevent Massachusetts state law and read it.  If there are parts you do not understand, ask a lawyer friend to explain those parts.  And be aware that most states have two different laws, and which one applies depends on when the timeshare was established and when the state adopted the Uniform Condominium Act.

Unless Massachusetts has adopted some weird local quirk, this ''pay $300'' business does not seem to make sense.

The only part of the real estate that would go to cover the HOA debts in most states in a pre-UCA resort would be those weeks actually owned by the HOA.

I owned at a resort in Europe that closed down (different laws from UCA, etc., of course) due to the HOA board getting old and no one willing to take over, and there the payout was over three times what I had paid for the week, and I paid a four figure sum when I bought it.


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## Carolinian (Aug 9, 2010)

e.bram said:


> Does this event portend what could happen to any TS with points trust owning many deeds such as Festiva or Innseason cannot or will not pay the MFs.(because of a large number points members bailees)



It may very well.  Having such an entity controlling a large block of weeks is a real danger.  Read the article where they are compared to a ''strangler vine' in the latest _Timesharing Today_, for example.

A few years ago, there was a resort in Pennsylvania that closed because a points club simply refused to pay its m/f's at the last minute, and this was a big enough part of the HOA budget that it crashed the whole resort.  Several resorts in South Africa have also either crashed or had a near miss because a points club either deliberately did not pay levies in a deliberate bid to crash the resort, or in at least one case became insolvent and could not pay them to the resort.

The other problem is these entities taking over the HOA and running it for their own interests.  Sunterra bullied the weeks-based owners at Club Britannia in the UK to move to a different resort so they could sell that one at a huge profit to themselves.  Their successor, DRI, more recently bullied the weeks-based owners at Wychnor Park to move to a different resort so they could have Wychnor Park for just their points owners.  I would not own at a resort where I know that there was such a ticking time bomb as a big ownership block by such entities.  One way to stop an HOA takeover is what they did at Stouts Hill, which was to amend the HOA governing documents to give each owner only one vote in the HOA no matter how many weeks they owned.  DRI owns some weeks there that it bought from the original developer, but has only one vote in HOA meetings.


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## e.bram (Aug 9, 2010)

Timeos2:
I invest in real estate now and again. i find those properties that don't sell are(1)part of an estate where one inheritor either wants to much or is trying get it a good price from the others, (2)pollution problems ,(3)zoning problems, (4)overpriced, partner problems(divorce) and (6) in a depressed area(ie. Upstate NY). For the right price CCC would sell in a nanosecond.

ps. I went to school in Ithaca. The only thing that kept the town together was the University.


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## CassieD (Aug 9, 2010)

*Decisions*

I just received the papers from CCC for me to cast my vote as to the termination and the units at Riverview.  I am still on the fence about the whole thing.  Decisions, decisions.  
Has anyone else also received the papers?


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## senorak (Aug 9, 2010)

I may have received the papers....but am on vacation in Hilton Head this week.     I imagine the ballot will be waiting for me when I return.  

Deb


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## Conan (Aug 9, 2010)

CassieD said:


> I just received the papers from CCC for me to cast my vote as to the termination and the units at Riverview.  I am still on the fence about the whole thing.  Decisions, decisions.
> Has anyone else also received the papers?



I have my papers.  I"m going to vote yes on the Termination Agreement, but I won't request the exchange of ownership into Riverview Resort.

That means I'll be paying a 2011 termination assessment, maybe around $300.  If the sale doesn't work out, I'll still most likely be rid of the property and free of further obligation.  If the sale does work out I should at least get that money back and maybe more.  

But I don't want Riverview weeks - - I have two fixed summer weeks at CCC and I can't imagine they're going to be able to give me fixed summer weeks at Riverview in return.  Agreeing to be an owner at Riverview will mean ongoing maintenance costs with no assurance at this time of what I'd be getting.  [The papers say that Riverview ownership "will be granted to a mutually agreed upon interval interest" but I'm skeptical that will work out satisfactorily.]


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## timeos2 (Aug 9, 2010)

*Why not listen? They don't bite*



Conan said:


> But I don't want Riverview weeks - - I have two fixed summer weeks at CCC and I can't imagine they're going to be able to give me fixed summer weeks at Riverview in return.  Agreeing to be an owner at Riverview will mean ongoing maintenance costs with no assurance at this time of what I'd be getting.  [The papers say that Riverview ownership "will be granted to a mutually agreed upon interval interest" but I'm skeptical that will work out satisfactorily.]



So why guess? Find out what they can offer - if it isn't what you want then you already have a plan that you feel will get you out at some point (the kicker being that it will most likely be a couple and could be many years before it is actually sold, paid for & the final accounting/distribution takes place. If your main goal is to be out of any timeshare in that area then the possible sell out may be best for you. But if you want to have an ownership then listening may be the way to go while whatever is there to be taken still exists.  If you want a fixed week and they can't offer one then use plan "B". Can't hurt to listen except for the time.


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## flexible (Aug 10, 2010)

*Is this the same Riverview?*

Is this the "Rivervew" that is discused above? Will the results of the above discussion effect http://vacationinternationale.com owners? Thanks

https://www.viowners.com/resorts/Riverview.html

Riverview - Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Yarmouth is the second oldest town in Cape Cod, filled with historic charm, blending the past and present so you can find hidden treasures of history mingling with family fun.  First settled in 1639 by the Pilgrims, your visit can take in countless historic sites and landmarks that tell the proud role Cape Cod played in American history.  The temperate climate, cooler in summer and warmer in winter, make exploration of the 115 beaches, 13 historic lighthouses, 475 art galleries and 83 museums hard to resist.  Riverview Resort puts you in the heart of all the attractions, plus shopping and restaurants in abundance.  While at the resort, swim in the indoor pool or soak in the hot tub, enjoy the exercise room and the children's play area.  Here you have everything you need to create a truly unique vacation for all ages and interest levels.


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## flexible (Aug 10, 2010)

Laurie said:


> VI is also withdrawing from Riverview, VI owns 37% of Riverview and is its largest owner. This is 735 intervals.
> 
> "Both VI and we (the board of trustees of Riverview) believe that Riverview is not financially viable without assessment from VI's 735 intervals. But VI is firm in its resolve to terminate its interest in Riverview, even if it means calling for a vote of all Riverview owners to sell Riverview and distribute proceeds, if any, among all Riverview owners."
> 
> ..



We own almost 400 http://VacationInternationale.com points annually. Is this the same VI you are referring to? We had hoped to stay at some VI resorts in New England in the future. I hadn't read that VI is withdrawing from Riverview. Did you read it in a VI press release? Thanks


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## jbercu (Aug 10, 2010)

*Reject Any Management Fee Proposal that Increases Costs*



flexible said:


> We own almost 400 http://VacationInternationale.com points annually. Is this the same VI you are referring to? We had hoped to stay at some VI resorts in New England in the future. I hadn't read that VI is withdrawing from Riverview. Did you read it in a VI press release? Thanks



Logon to your VI on-line account, point your cursor at VIOA (Last Tab) and select "VIOA Board Minutes" from the drop-down menu.  Then select the April 20, 2010 Minutes, and read about VI urging Riverview Board to reject any management fee proposals that increase costs.

Thanks


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## flexible (Aug 10, 2010)

jbercu said:


> Logon to your VI on-line account, point your cursor at VIOA (Last Tab) and select "VIOA Board Minutes" from the drop-down menu.  Then select the April 20, 2010 Minutes, and read about VI urging Riverview Board to reject any management fee proposals that increase costs.
> 
> Thanks



Thanks for telling me where to find this:

"The (VI) Board then reviewed management contract proposals and operating costs at Riverview Resort in Massachusetts. The operational cost at Riverview (expressed as a cost per night used) is almost twice the system-wide average approximate for VI. In order to reduce this cost, the Board adopted a resolution to urge the Riverview Resort Board of Trustees to reject any management fee proposal that increases costs and to begin to reduce the overall operating costs at the resort. In addition, the Board’s resolution directs the VI staff to seek divestiture of Riverview Resort from the VI system. The motion was adopted unanimously."


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## e.bram (Aug 10, 2010)

If VI can bail out of Riverview with impunity why can't individual owners do the same to Riverview or any TS


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## timeos2 (Aug 10, 2010)

*They are an owner like any other - but a BIG one*



e.bram said:


> If VI can bail out of Riverview with impunity why can't individual owners do the same to Riverview or any TS



I had virtually the same question and the answer was "they can't". However they own enough of the total weeks to call for the vote to dissolve and have done so. The plan presented is a way to have the other owners of the resort have a way to stay in operation without the heavy membership& payment from VI. 

If the vote fails then VI would have to turn to things like a mass sell off of their holdings at far below even bargain basement prices that can't be good for the resort or VI.  It appears they are trying to get out with the least amount of damage to everyone involved using every option they have. The current proposal is just one way but it is probably the fastest one and holds the promise of best use/value to the independent owner/members rather than the other, likely to be more costly and maybe legally expensive options they and the resort have to settle things.


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## e.bram (Aug 10, 2010)

It looks like VI wants the CCC owners to bail them out of Riverview, if they are dumb enough and can be conned. I wonder if they hired some of the TS sales weasels to do it.

Timeos2: Where does the Cove stand vis a vis VI? Trouble coming down the pike?


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## timeos2 (Aug 10, 2010)

*Different amount involved - low enough to absorb*



e.bram said:


> It looks like VI wants the CCC owners to bail them out of Riverview, if they are dumb enough and can be conned. I wonder if they hired some of the TS sales weasels to do it.
> 
> Timeos2: Where does the Cove stand vis a vis VI? Trouble coming down the pike?



No, fortunately while VI does hold some Cove weeks it is a tiny amount and they aren't even looking to get out. They tend to have nearly enough annual use requests to utilize all but a few of those they hold (at least so far) and if they did decide to sell it isn't a number likely to cause any problems for either side.


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## Carolinian (Aug 11, 2010)

So VI then ends up with a large chunk, maybe most of CCC, from the swapout of weeks.  What do they do with that?  Manage it themselves or sell it off?


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## Conan (Aug 11, 2010)

Carolinian said:


> So VI then ends up with a large chunk, maybe most of CCC, from the swapout of weeks.  What do they do with that?  Manage it themselves or sell it off?



If the termination vote passes then CCC must be sold.  Those who agreed to swap into Riverview do not get proceeds - - they get a Riverview unit and the proceeds go to Riverview Resort.  Those who did not agree to swap get their share of the proceeds.


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## flexible (Aug 11, 2010)

Carolinian said:


> So VI then ends up with a large chunk, maybe most of CCC, from the swapout of weeks.  What do they do with that?  Manage it themselves or sell it off?



I didn't know that VI owns CCC? Is the use of VI(VacationInternationale) & VRI getting transposed? Thanks

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/gl-183b-toc.htm re: Timeshare laws in MA was posted in a fb group, perhaps it is helpful to some of you.


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## Carolinian (Aug 11, 2010)

Conan said:


> If the termination vote passes then CCC must be sold.  Those who agreed to swap into Riverview do not get proceeds - - they get a Riverview unit and the proceeds go to Riverview Resort.  Those who did not agree to swap get their share of the proceeds.



When they do a swap, though VI then owns what the swaping owner had in CCC.  If they end up with a big enough chunk of it, then they can buy the resort, probably on the cheap at a courthouse door sale, and then only have to actually pay for what portion of it that they do not end up owning from the swaps.  If CCC is say a third the size of Riverview, then they may end up owning most of it.  I have no idea what the relative sizes are.  I am not sure what the local law or condo docs may say, but there is also the possitibility that they could do a partition on the ground and get title to their share of CCC.


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## CassieD (Aug 14, 2010)

Conan said:


> I have my papers.  I"m going to vote yes on the Termination Agreement, but I won't request the exchange of ownership into Riverview Resort.
> 
> That means I'll be paying a 2011 termination assessment, maybe around $300.  If the sale doesn't work out, I'll still most likely be rid of the property and free of further obligation.  If the sale does work out I should at least get that money back and maybe more.
> 
> But I don't want Riverview weeks - - I have two fixed summer weeks at CCC and I can't imagine they're going to be able to give me fixed summer weeks at Riverview in return.  Agreeing to be an owner at Riverview will mean ongoing maintenance costs with no assurance at this time of what I'd be getting.  [The papers say that Riverview ownership "will be granted to a mutually agreed upon interval interest" but I'm skeptical that will work out satisfactorily.]



Conan, I am also going to vote yes to terminate CCC.  As for the Riverview unit, I also doubt that they would do an even swap, but I am leaning towards doing the trade only if they are able to give me a summer week (which is what I have now at CCC).  My only fear is that say I do get a nice week at Riverview, that sometime down the road I'll get hit up with some kind of Special Assessment.  I know they already refurbished and are supposedly all done with the SA but I don't know....they are also not doing well financially snce VI pulled out, so who knows what could happen down the line.  Any thoughts?
What about you Deb?  What do you think you will do?
By the way, I received a call today from someone saying they were calling about my unit at CCC.  They left a message and I didn't get a chance to call back today.  I don't know if they were calling from CCC or Riverview.  Did anyone else get this call?   
Cassie


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## Conan (Aug 14, 2010)

CassieD said:


> Conan, I am also going to vote yes to terminate CCC. As for the Riverview unit, I also doubt that they would do an even swap, but I am leaning towards doing the trade only if they are able to give me a summer week (which is what I have now at CCC). My only fear is that say I do get a nice week at Riverview, that sometime down the road I'll get hit up with some kind of Special Assessment. I know they already refurbished and are supposedly all done with the SA but I don't know....they are also not doing well financially snce VI pulled out, so who knows what could happen down the line. Any thoughts?
> What about you Deb? What do you think you will do?
> By the way, I received a call today from someone saying they were calling about my unit at CCC. They left a message and I didn't get a chance to call back today. I don't know if they were calling from CCC or Riverview. Did anyone else get this call?
> Cassie


 
I also got the call, but haven't spoken with them yet.

I already own a summer fixed week 2-BR at Riverview so I can tell you something about its financial history.  I bought it on Ebay and paid:
2006: ~$550 maintenance plus a $1,054 special assessment
2007: $566 maintenance
2008: $614 maintenance
2009: $661 maintenance
2010: $679 maintenance
Remember, that's for a 2-BR


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## theo (Aug 14, 2010)

*Not exactly...*



flexible said:


> I didn't know that VI owns CCC? Is the use of VI(VacationInternationale) & VRI getting transposed?



VI doesn't "own" CCC, but as mentioned already simply owns a bunch of weeks at CCC. VI is just like any other owner there --- but with lots more weeks owned (...and, presumably, that same hefty number of votes to cast for dissolution). 

VRI's direct involvement is soley as the current management company (and not as future owner of those VI weeks). That said, as I learned recently, there are indeed corporate officers common to both VI and VRI, so they are hardly completely separate entities (...as I had mistakenly believed previously).


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## Carolinian (Aug 14, 2010)

theo said:


> VI doesn't "own" CCC, but as mentioned already simply owns a bunch of weeks at CCC. VI is just like any other owner there --- but with lots more weeks owned (...and, presumably, that same hefty number of votes to cast for dissolution).
> 
> VRI's direct involvement is soley as the current management company (and not as future owner of those VI weeks). That said, as I learned recently, there are indeed corporate officers common to both VI and VRI, so they are hardly completely separate entities (...as I had mistakenly believed previously).



So. . . . VI puts up its Riverside weeks, swapping them to CCC owners, and ends up adding those to its already ''hefty'' number of weeks there.  Wonder what percentage ownership of CCC they will end up with?  It would seem they would buy the remainder on the cheap when the resort goes up at the courthouse door.  Then they can run CCC themselves as a timeshare or sell it as a whole when the market improves for a profit.


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## theo (Aug 15, 2010)

*Not sure about that...*



Carolinian said:


> So. . . . VI puts up its Riverside weeks, swapping them to CCC owners, and ends up adding those to its already ''hefty'' number of weeks there.  Wonder what percentage ownership of CCC they will end up with?  It would seem they would buy the remainder on the cheap when the resort goes up at the courthouse door.  Then they can run CCC themselves as a timeshare or sell it as a whole when the market improves for a profit.



In my (admittedly limited) understanding, VI does not own nearly as many weeks at Riverview as they own at CCC, so it is entirely unclear to me how (numerically) the option for CCC owners to "swap" into ownership of weeks at Riverview can possibly work out for many CCC owners. 

Moreover, I'm betting that CCC owners of prime, fixed summer weeks  can't (...and won't) possibly be offered weeks of comparable high quality at Riverview, since those same prime, fixed summer weeks are likely already owned by others (...and by "others" I mean not VI) at Riverview. 

Further, I'm not clear on how VRI (which apparently currently manages both facilities and which has some common corporate "players" with VI) fits into the overall picture (other than as management company).  

I have no dog (or any ownerships) in this fight (...for which I am very grateful) but it's still a very interesting and unusual situation to observe and which I am trying to understand and follow (...with, I must admit, only limited success so far).


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## timeos2 (Aug 15, 2010)

theo said:


> In my (admittedly limited) understanding, VI does not own nearly as many weeks at Riverview as they own at CCC, so it is entirely unclear to me how (numerically) the option for CCC owners to "swap" into ownership of weeks at Riverview can possibly work out for many CCC owners.



Actually VI has it's ownership at Riverview NOT CCC. In fact I'm not sure VI has any ownership at CCC now - if they do it's minimal.  The weeks available at Riverview are the weeks VI wants out of and its more than 10% of the total there as I understand it.  The goal of the swap is to leave CCC as a marketable property after it closes not to operate it as an ongoing timeshare operation.


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## e.bram (Aug 15, 2010)

Looks like VRI/VI is trying to pull a schneid on the CCC and Riverview owners. Is the Cove next?


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## CassieD (Aug 15, 2010)

*SA @ Riverview was NUTS!*



Conan said:


> I also got the call, but haven't spoken with them yet.
> 
> I already own a summer fixed week 2-BR at Riverview so I can tell you something about its financial history.  I bought it on Ebay and paid:
> 2006: ~$550 maintenance plus a $1,054 special assessment
> ...



Thanks Conan for getting back to me with that info.  You must have gotten the unit cheap through Ebay because the sellers knew about the SA and wanted to dump it before they had to pay it.  That SA you paid was outrageous!  That's what happened to me with my CCC unit...I just bought it on Ebay and now get hit with this.  Obviously that's why the owners sold it like a hot potato.
As for the maintenance fees...I don't think they are bad for a 2 bedroom unit considering my maintenance fees for my studio at Orange Lake are that much already.
I still haven't spoken with the guy that called.  Definitely let's keep each other posted.
Cassie


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## timeos2 (Aug 15, 2010)

e.bram said:


> Looks like VRI/VI is trying to pull a schneid on the CCC and Riverview owners. Is the Cove next?



And the basis for this "information" is?

What the plan is and why it is being proposed has been spelled out clearly in the information sent to owners at both resorts.


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## theo (Aug 15, 2010)

*Dawn breaks over Marble Head...*



timeos2 said:


> Actually VI has it's ownership at Riverview NOT CCC. In fact I'm not sure VI has any ownership at CCC now - if they do it's minimal.  The weeks available at Riverview are the weeks VI wants out of and its more than 10% of the total there as I understand it.  The goal of the swap is to leave CCC as a marketable property after it closes not to operate it as an ongoing timeshare operation.



Got it (finally). Thanks, John, for correcting my apparent misunderstanding. 
I couldn't make any mathematical sense out of the resort / weeks swap, having had the VI owned weeks at the wrong resort to begin with in my (alleged) mind.


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## e.bram (Aug 15, 2010)

CCC owners:
I will trade my Surfside Resort(Falmouth) floating week for any  CCC week. Surfside is an oceanfront resort, with full kitchens and indoor and out door pools. Nicer than Riverside. Better deal for CCC owners than VI.
That way I can get rid of for less than a PC charges and may get some money back.

ps: To the moderators, thanks for not deleting post as a for sale post.


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## timeos2 (Aug 15, 2010)

e.bram said:


> CCC owners:
> I will trade my Surfside Resort(Falmouth) floating week for any  CCC week. Surfside is an oceanfront resort, with full kitchens and indoor and out door pools. Nicer than Riverside. Better deal for CCC owners than VI.
> That way I can get rid of for less than a PC charges and may get some money back.



Float week? What use dates does it cover? I assume it is NOT the prime summer period.


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## e.bram (Aug 16, 2010)

Timeos2:
Did I say it was a prime summer week? Would I be trying to dump a prime summer oceanfront week(read my post)?
BUT, I did not hear that VI was offering prime summer weeks at Riverside for the CCC swap.
Whatever it is, it is a better location than Riverview, miles from the beach.

ps: To the moderators, thanks for not deleting post as a for sale post.


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## timeos2 (Sep 10, 2010)

*Great News - Owners Win!*

I have just heard, and I don't think its in anyway restricted news, that the Owners at CCC have overwhelmingly voted to approve the plan to move to Riverview and close the resort. More on the Riverview thread.


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## mccrupi (Sep 20, 2011)

*Timeshare owner Club of Cape cod to Riverview*

Hello,

I am a recent transplant from the Club of Cape Cod to Riverview Resorts and this year (as I had done many years at the Club) offered my week up for rental with the Riverview Resort.  I just received my rental proceeds check and am floored by how little it was and how many fees etc. VRI collected on my rental.  For a gross rental income (which they claim I must claim on my taxes!!!!) of $728, my proceeds were $269.68!...and for the week which I already paid for as it is with my maint fees, etc.  While I now realize this may have been part of the demise of the Club of Cape Cod, I would have recieved more than double the amount I did when I rented while still at the Club...has anyone one been dumbfounded by this experience...is it that the Club just didn't conduct better business practices or am I being robbed by VRI/Riverview resort?????
Responses would be greatly appreiciated.
mc


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## Conan (Sep 20, 2011)

Management does not have a monopoly on rentals.  I generally rent my unit on Redweek.  I price it below management's gross price and I net much more.


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## mccrupi (Sep 20, 2011)

Thank you for the reply.  I actually have a vacation home that I rent, and so I am not naive about the process, but was really just voicing my concern about the flagrant overcharging by VRI for doing the renting for me...which I assume amounted to answering the phone and saying: "Yes we have a room available"...no special costs other than housekeeping went into that rental, it is a red week I rented, and to charge credit card and housekeeping fees on top of an inflated rental fee on their end is what I am really upset about. I rented my week for years before, as a member of the Club of Cape Cod, I was forced to switch over to Riverview, and always received a much more substantial portion of the rental procured from the facility.  It is a win-win for them if they rent my week, they already got my money for the week and now are getting it again from the renter off the street...well never again...I will bank or rent myself before I will allow them to do so for me!
Venting...sorry!.....


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## theo (Sep 20, 2011)

*My $0.02 worth...*



mccrupi said:


> I just received my rental proceeds check and am floored by how little it was and how many fees etc. VRI collected on my rental.  For a gross rental income (which they claim I must claim on my taxes!!!!) of $728, my proceeds were $269.68!...



I haved own a number of weeks at several different VRI managed facilities (none of them anywhere on or near Cape Cod) for some years now. 

I own my weeks to use them, so only once did I ever have VRI rent out a week for me, but my vague recollection was that VRI took 35% as their commission / "cut". Further, I believe / seem to recall that their identified "commission percentage" was (and remains) a matter of VRI-wide policy (i.e., does not differ among different VRI-managed resorts)...

That said, VRI is correct that you are required to claim the rental income on your taxes (...I'm betting that most people who conduct their own _private_ rentals rarely, if ever, actually do so). You would be unwise to willfully fail to report the income, since you may rest assured that VRI will generate a form 1099-MISC and that they will file a copy of same with the IRS (...and one to you at years' end also, of course).

I'm no accountant (and I don't play one on TV), but I recall / believe that once your commission costs and maintenance fees all get factored in for the rental reporting, the actual tax impact of the net rental income is relatively minimal for just a single week. Tax folks know those details (...I certainly don't claim to).


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## Conan (Sep 21, 2011)

As an aside, the Riverview 2012 maintenance bills are out. 

Studio $359 (includes $48 reserve)
One BR $599 (includes $81 reserve)
Two BR $719 (includes $97 reserve)

I'm not unhappy with these figures. The property is open 8 months/year (it's closed December through March which saves heating and other costs and reduces the number of 'mud' weeks in the system). It looks like about 85% of maintenance is being collected. They also report about $33,000 of rental income (the subject of the above posts) which funds about one-third of the shortfall in maintenance collection.


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