# Wyndham-Slime personified



## cerralee (Dec 23, 2008)

I am sitting here ripping mad.   I just opened my mail and in the mail is a brand new RCI credit card that I never asked for or applied for.
Last Tuesday my daughter and I went to Atlantic City on a timeshare exchange.  After checking in as per usual the desk asked if we would attend an update on Wyndham's now owning RCI and what the future of timesharing was going to be looking like.  I told her that I don't do presentations but my daughter who recently turned 21 and is an owner on one of my timeshares wanted to hear.  I thought it would be better for her to go through the "experience" with me as I wanted to "educate" her on the ways of salespeople in the world of timeshares.
Of course the first "lie" by the desk girl that it was a 45 minute update done with a group proved false right from the get go.  We talked to the host of salespeople with me steadfast in my resolve that I did not want to convert ANY of my resorts to points.  I did show them my drivers license at some point as they asked for my credit card which I did not bring with me and I sure as heck wasn't going to give them that.  Of course it was on file at the front desk from when I checked in.  
I did tell them what I owned, an Ocean City fourth of July week which they insisted would be basically worthless after March of this year, A couple of South africa weeks that they did say could be converted to points, and a RTU mexico week which I haven't even registered with RCI yet.  

On and on they go with how worthless my weeks will become after March of 2009 and how "amazed" they were with that no one contacted me about how it would affect how RCI will be working in the future now that Wyndham has aquired RCI.  I told them time and time again that I wasn't worried about it that I had aquired my weeks resale and I wasn't about to fork over money for something that I am happy about using the current way and if things changed in the future then I've had a happy 15 years or so timesharing the old weeks way.  She went on to say it would be nearly impossible for me to sell my weeks in today's market or basically to use them at all after March of 2009, to which I replied that I have sold several weeks in the past and knew how to dispose of them if need be.  Things change and I am prepared to handle the decline in weeks usage if that's what comes of owning out and out weeks.

I repeatedly told her I was not interested, don't go "do the math" that I wasn't interested in seeing how much it would cost me to convert to points, Not only am I not employed now, but I have two children in college that I am paying for and even if I wanted to there was no way I would go into debt to pay for something that I already owned.  Well she kept doing the math anyway, and I kept signing "decline" slips telling her if she gave it to me for free I wouldn't take it.  That I was tired and agitated with her and her upper level manager and I just wanted to go.  

Then they tried to get my daughter to sign up.  Now here she is, 21, in college with a job one day a week at a restruant to help pay her college incidentals.  They drag out a financing package where she could pay something like $28 a month, don't say how long and that she is going to be kicking me down the road for turning down such a wonderful offer because of course it can never be repeated again.

She isn't even registered on my RCI account, the timeshare she co-owns with me is the RTU that they would not put into points anyway.  Of course the picture they paint is so pretty that she starts arguing with me but Mamma knows better and just keeps signing the decline slips that they keep sticking in front of me.  I just want out.  I wanted a copy of what they were offering, basically so I could take it and show my daughter how they bamboozle you with BS.  Of course they will not give you one unless you sign up.  Of course they tell you about how you can rescind and of course I tell them no way-I'm not interested in the first place and only a fool would sign something obviously complicated and complex in the kind of setting they were providing.  So I sign no documents except the "decline" offerings so I can get the **** out.  I guess I should have requested a copy of them also, but they seemed pretty straight forward showing what I could have  had and "Decline" over the top of each.
Now finally after all the pretty pictures and me finally just insisting that they let us go, that I am getting an anxiety attack from their inability to accept no for an answer we leave.  On monday in the mail is a brand new RCI credit card with a credit line of approximately the same amount that they wanted me to finance.  I know that the basic information was taken from my driver's license as it spells my name different than it really is, I have a double name and only on my drivers is it all together and looks as one name.  Just like my new credit card-how coincidental.
I use one credit card and pay it off each month, I don't want my credit wrecked with lots of applications and credit cards in my name.  I have good credit for a reason. I called the credit card company and they said that I requested it on the 17th the day of the presentation.  NEVER was there any talk of opening up a new credit card.  They did say they could arrange RCI financing with 0% interest to which I said no way, wasn't interested-forget it.  Apparantly they applied on my behalf.  Total slime.  Hopefully what I got out of this experience is to what lengths these vultures will go to to get you to sign up for their "package".  A lesson that will hopefully one day save my daughter from falling for a slick presentation and pretty picture.  She was mad at me that day for not signing up.  Now after seeing the aftermath of just sitting through the presentation, taking her through the TUG site and reading the posts she hopefully understands a bit more of the wonderful world of developers and their fast talking ways.  She is planning on taking trips on her own very soon and it looks like they don't even screen for income elgibility any more.  We were not even asked once before the "update" what we made.  We were assured that it wasn't for "selling" us a timeshare as we already were owners and they just wanted to let us know what was happening with Wyndham now an owner of RCI.  
Now what I want to know is was it "legal" for them to apply for a credit card in my name without my consent?  I personally feel violated.  Never at any time did I give them any indication that I was considering any of their offerings, I was adamant about not wanting their product.  I guess it could have been worse-they could have hijacked my daughter with their line of using the points in their new all-inclusive resort for only $38 a person for the week with a portion of our maintenance fees being pre-paid, no RCI membership fee, and free airline tickets and had her on the string for the rest of her life.  I am so sorry for rambling but once again I come to TUG to vent my frustrations.  
Hopefully this will be a life lesson learned for my daughter and eventually worth the frustration it caused me, my only aquistion is a new credit card with a $0 balance that I don't even have to activate.  I already have a RCI credit card, when I got home I went to check my balance online and wondered what the new number was on my account-now I know.

Lee


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## nazclk (Dec 23, 2008)

*Legal*

don't know what all you signed, I would be damn mad if that happened to me.  I would write to the head of the company, also to the BBB and the local authority.


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## Conan (Dec 23, 2008)

Here's the FTC complaint form.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en

I wonder if you can accuse them of identity theft, since they applied for credit in your name without your consent.

Alternatively, you can use the same form to complain about business opportunity - - travel but that seems farther off the mark.


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## jdb0822 (Dec 23, 2008)

actually, that is fraud.  Its criminal.  I would close the account and report the incident to law enforcement.  You can also sue under certain credit/identity acts (sorry, don't know the exact one).

Report it to the local law enforcement where the resort is located.

I would also contact the powers that be at Wyndham, not just to complain about the incident of fraud, but to ask them what they are going to do for you to rectify it out of court.

That should get some interesting responses.

I NEVER attend updates.  TUG is my "update".


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## AwayWeGo (Dec 23, 2008)

*Bad Timeshare Tour.*

_Whoa ! _

I've been on some bad timeshare tours, but none _that_ bad. 

What timeshare was it ? 

You mentioned Wyndham, but I took that to be in the context of the hook the timeshare sellers used in the sales pitch (Wyndham taking over RCI, which is old news anyway).  That is, I didn't think you meant it happened at a Wyndham timeshare. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## cerralee (Dec 23, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> _Whoa ! _
> 
> I've been on some bad timeshare tours, but none _that_ bad.
> 
> ...



It was Wyndham Skyline towers in Atlantic City.  According to the girl who gave us the appointment it was not the "timeshare tour" that non- RCI owners were sent on those and that was the one where you might have to sit for several hours but an "RCI owners update".  It was to be only 45 minutes in a group setting according to her-I was prepared for worse, I thought the education proponent was worth the time and might eventually offset a stupid impulse purchase on my daughters behalf as she has travelled, travelled well and will hopefully have the means to finacially qualify at some point in the future.


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## tango (Dec 23, 2008)

cerralee said:


> We talked to the host of salespeople with me steadfast in my resolve that I did not want to convert ANY of my resorts to points.
> that I wasn't interested in seeing how much it would cost me to convert to points,



Please enlighten a newbie.  Are there 2 kinds of TS ownership with Wyndham, a deeded week, and "points"?  And if you own a points contract, is it deeded?  Is this points conversion just for one specific year, or for perpetuity?
If there is a difference, is this usually clear on the resale market?

confused.


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## theo (Dec 23, 2008)

*Better answered elsewhere...*



tango said:


> Please enlighten a newbie.  Are there 2 kinds of TS ownership with Wyndham, a deeded week, and "points"?  And if you own a points contract, is it deeded?  Is this points conversion just for one specific year, or for perpetuity? If there is a difference, is this usually clear on the resale market? confused.



Just as a suggestion, you might directly reach more Wyndham folks with this sort of inquiry via the Wyndham Forum right here on TUG. Your questions are astute and deserve the best informed replies possible (...and that would certainly be from someone far more knowledgeable than me...).

The Wyndham "points" product is called "Fairshare Plus" (the name derives from the old days of Fairfield, which was later bought out by Wyndham).  However, not all Wyndham deeded weeks were converted over to FSP by their owners. Conversion to FSP is a choice (one which you of course must pay to exercise) --- not a decree or mandate from on high. Those weeks converted to FSP stay converted (I believe there is a $100 annual fee) and can still be used by the owner (by reserving that unit / week 10-13 months in advance, before it goes "up for grabs" and available to others). Deeded week owners who converted to FSP can also always later "opt out" and just go back to owning only the deeded week itself, although the FSP points provide additional flexibility for alternative use elsewhere (or banking w/ an exchange company).

It is my (admittedly quite limited) understanding that there is also an undivided interest (UDI) type of "ownership" with Wyndham, which I believe consists only of points with no associated underlying deeded week. It's part of a Wyndham "trust" arrangement, as I understand it. Whether the Wyndham board members who oversee this "trust" can themselves be "trusted" is certainly a matter of ongoing debate.... 

Anyway, visit the Wyndham Forum. There are some very knowledgeable and helpful people there who are routinely of great assistance in helping people to climb the Wyndham learning curve. Be forewarned, however, that there are a whole lot of very unhappy Wyndham campers right now, due to recent (and additional imminent) changes in Wyndham fees and policies. The brouhaha over an imminent (3/1/09) proposed prohibition on transfer of FSP points by their owners has the natives particularly (and understandably) quite restless these days. The jungle drums are beating loudly... 

In response to your final question, in the resale market *nothing* should ever be assumed (particularly in the instances of eBay listings, often replete with assorted errors and/or missing (but critically important) information. You have to ask all of the right questions clearly and specifically (just as you are doing now) and settle for nothing less than equally clear and specific answers, then verify everything you're told. In the words of Jimmy Buffet (in his song "Fruitcakes") --- 
"It's a jungle out there, kiddies. Have a very fruitful day!"


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## teepeeca (Dec 23, 2008)

*Which credit card company BACKS the RCI card???*

Since you received an "RCI" credit card, I am assuming it was a "Visa" or a "Master Card".  If that is so, it is probably backed (or is owned) by Chase; B of A; or some large financial institution.  (Look on the back of the card.)

Contact "customer (dis)service" of that bank, (phone number should be on the back of the card) and complain, and close the account.  (Don't forget to get "names" of everybody you speak to---especially the "supervisors".)

Find out HOW they issued you a card, without you applying for it.  If they say that you "did" fill out an application, have them send you a copy of what "you" filled out, including all signatures and dates.  You might also tell them that you think that there might be "fraud" in issuing the card, and "ask them" where, and to whom, you can report the "fraud".  (That might get them "interested" in helping you.)

Remember to get EVERYTHING in writing !!!  Document the dates, times, and ALL persons you talked to (and company "ID" numbers.

Tony


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## cerralee (Dec 23, 2008)

teepeeca said:


> Since you received an "RCI" credit card, I am assuming it was a "Visa" or a "Master Card".  If that is so, it is probably backed (or is owned) by Chase; B of A; or some large financial institution.  (Look on the back of the card.)
> 
> Contact "customer (dis)service" of that bank, (phone number should be on the back of the card) and complain, and close the account.  (Don't forget to get "names" of everybody you speak to---especially the "supervisors".)
> 
> ...



During the "update" I was asked how I paid for my last plane fares while vacationing.  I told them that I had a RCI card and had used the points accumulated on it from putting my 2 kids college tuition on it before they started charging a fee for billing tuition to a credit card.  They knew I already had a RCI credit card (Bank of America) and used the points towards travel related opportunities.  I did not tell them it was Bank of America but low and behold when I got home to check to make sure all my charges were in order there was the other credit card listed even before I got the actual card in the mail.


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## DaveNV (Dec 23, 2008)

It occurs to me that if they can open a credit card account without your consent like that, what ELSE can/did they do?  I'd talk to the credit bureaus and put a LOCK on your account.  You can do it for a few dollars for each of the three reporting agencies.  That way nothing enw can be opened without your direct, express consent.

Good luck!

Dave


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## Bill4728 (Dec 23, 2008)

Since this is about Wyndham, I'm moving it to the wyndham board.


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## cerralee (Dec 23, 2008)

I tried to contact Skyline Towers (Wyndham), but it seems the member services department has moved to another location according to the front desk and could not be reached at the number they gave me.

I did call Bank of America and requested a copy of the application which they are mailing to me.  I also talked to the Fraud department and he said that since I "attended" the owner update I must have signed something that said they could open an account.  I'm pretty sure I didn't.  I'm not even sure if I signed in when I got there.  

The Bank of America card guy did make notes on my account but I am pretty unnerved by the fact that they could get the information on me they got just from my Drivers license and RCI membership information.

I am going to call again tomorrow and request copies of all signed papers, although the only papers I signed were the papers listing the amount of what they were offering me and the acknowldegment that I was declining on the offer(s).


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## Pit (Dec 23, 2008)

I have only been to handful of sales presentations (none at Wyndham). I don't recall ever being asked to sign that I decline an offer. 

If I was asked to sign something I didn't request in the first place, I would simply refuse to sign it. I don't get it. Why sign something that says you decline an offer?


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## AwayWeGo (Dec 23, 2008)

*So Much For The Consumer Credit Crunch.*




teepeeca said:


> Since you received an "RCI" credit card, I am assuming it was a "Visa" or a "Master Card".  If that is so, it is probably backed (or is owned) by Chase; B of A; or some large financial institution.


Shux, if they're handing out Visa & Master Charge cards to people who don't even apply for'm, the nationwide consumer credit crunch that we've been hearing about must be grossly exaggerated. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## cerralee (Dec 24, 2008)

Pit said:


> I have only been to handful of sales presentations (none at Wyndham). I don't recall ever being asked to sign that I decline an offer.
> 
> If I was asked to sign something I didn't request in the first place, I would simply refuse to sign it. I don't get it. Why sign something that says you decline an offer?



I just wanted OUT, the party line was that it was their (Wyndham's) oversight in not contacting me about my rights as a RCI member that since Wyndham had aquired RCI and the week system is just basically months away from being totally useless and defunct that I had been advised of the upcoming new way of doing things.  By signing, I would have it noted on my account that the information had been presented to me and that I declined their offer of me paying them thousands and thousands of dollars to convert my weeks which were eligible to be put into points into a points account.  That is what I signed, the I decline your offer papers, and the I realize that by signing this at no time in the future will Wyndham be able to offer me "bonus" points to buy into the program.  Now most of my timeshares did not qualify anyway as one is right to use and the other is a standard fourth of July week on the Maryland shore-no crown.  The only ones that qualified were my SA peak weeks at Mt. Amanzi.  I think it started around $12,000 and eventually slipped down in the 9's, I'm not sure if the point value being offered dropped but I do remember a value of about 153,000 for something.  Since I wasn't interested and just wanted out I didn't pay too much attention.  Even my questions of how much would a plane ticket cost to XXX went unanswered, how would I use the points, how many would it cost me to go to XXX in XXX all went unanswered, to see that information I would have to sign the agreement, make a down payment and then have the proverbial seven days to look over the contract.  

The **** was knee deep from the start, I just wanted to get out, It must have been around quota time or something as they were playing hardball and I wasn't even getting up to bat.  I kept just telling them I didn't want to play and I wanted to go home.  I must have told them ten to fifteen time that I had no intentions of going into debt with two children in college and me being at the moment unemployed.  They tried to talk me into mortgaging my house, taking out a RCI line of credit you name it they suggested it.  I never gave them any indication that I was in the least bit intrested in any of it.  That the only thing they were giving me was an anxiety attack, and I know I was showing signs of having an anxiety attack which just seemed to fuel their fire.  Maybe they thought I'd sign just to get the heck out of there.  I told them that what they were doing was making me nervous and agitated, to please leave us alone and let us go.  Which is what I finally did-more or less stood up and just said were going-bye.

Has no one else every been to a update where they had you sign that you did not want your weeks to go into a points account?  And that after the beginning of the year, rolling to a crashing halt in March would be the ability to use your weeks?  Maybe this is a new attack method.  I don't put much stock into what salespeople say, but now I remember why I don't do even "updates".  What someone else said earlier is a lesson that I must continually repeat to myself, UPdat from TUG, update from TUG.

After Christmas I will pursue the whole matter further as some have suggested and keep you updated.


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## Jennie (Dec 25, 2008)

What type of gift were you promised that led you to put up with all that crap? I can't think of anything that would be worth all that aggravation. If you wanted to leave, you should have just gotten up and walked out. You had no obligation to stay.

The garbage they were dishing out about your week becoming worthless is totally false. It is a common ploy used not only by the slime Wyndham salespeople but also at many other resorts that have joined the RCI Points program. The sales force tells owners of fixed deeded weeks that their weeks will become worthless in the near future if they don't fork over thousands of dollars to convert to Points.

If you own a fixed deeded week, it will remain as valuable as it has been to you in the past. In fact, converting to points, even if it were offered to you for free (which never happens) would probably not be a wise move to make.

If I were you, I would report the entire incident to the Attorney General's Office in New Jersey. They would probably send it on to the state agency that regulates timeshares. They have tough standards in New Jersey. . Skyline Towers had to delay their scheduled opening for several months in order to meet the tough standards. 

You might also want to contact Timesharing Today Magazine: www.tstoday.com.  Ray Jacobs, the owner, is an attorney in New Jersey. He should be able to give you advice about the credit card situation, and may want to post an article in the magazine warning others.


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## Caius (Dec 25, 2008)

I've read before about sales staff trying to get people to sign "decline" paperwork at presentations, although I have not seen this myself.  I think I've also read people state they refuse to sign these papers.

Does anyone have more info on this?  What is the point of the decline paperwork?  Do they hide stuff in there that they try to get you to not read (i.e. credit card application as the OP is reporting)?


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## cerralee (Dec 25, 2008)

Jennie said:


> What type of gift were you promised that led you to put up with all that crap? I can't think of anything that would be worth all that aggravation. If you wanted to leave, you should have just gotten up and walked out. You had no obligation to stay.
> 
> The garbage they were dishing out about your week becoming worthless is totally false. It is a common ploy used not only by the slime Wyndham salespeople but also at many other resorts that have joined the RCI Points program. The sales force tells owners of fixed deeded weeks that their weeks will become worthless in the near future if they don't fork over thousands of dollars to convert to Points.
> 
> ...



*What type of gift were you promised that led you to put up with all that crap? I can't think of anything that would be worth all that aggravation. If you wanted to leave, you should have just gotten up and walked out. You had no obligation to stay.*

It wasn't the "GIFT", more so than anything- since I hoped (but darn well knew better) was that it would be a shorter presentation and my daughter wanted to attend with me.  I wanted her to go through the process as she is a travelor because of the timeshares, one of which she now owns and in the future someone may make her an offer she can't refuse gift wize and there she would be sitting in a presentation without basic knowledge.  I was hoping it would be a learning experience that might save her thousands of dollars down the road.  She felt the lure, wanted me to purchase, was mad at me, but now sees with open eyes the deception of the whole procedure.  So, even if we were taken advantage of, something positive has come out of this.  She even knew about timeshare scams as I have been with this group since the early 90's but don't do a lot of tours and have never taken her with me.  You are right, I should have just got up and walked out which is eventually-although it took me way to long is what I did-they kept saying they were going to gift us and then just sign one more paper etc., etc.,

*You might also want to contact Timesharing Today Magazine: www.tstoday.com.  Ray Jacobs, the owner, is an attorney in New Jersey. He should be able to give you advice about the credit card situation, and may want to post an article in the magazine warning others.*

I plan to contact several people, I'll add him to the list, Thanks


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## bogey21 (Dec 25, 2008)

I think you are spending far too much time and energy on this.  Personally, I would just call the card issuer; cancel the account; and move on.

George


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## AwayWeGo (Dec 25, 2008)

*Card-Canceling With Extreme Prejudice.*




bogey21 said:


> I would just call the card issuer; cancel the account; and move on.


Snipping the card in 1/2 & sending both parts back to the credit card company is always a nice touch. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## london (Dec 25, 2008)

*Agree Totally*



bogey21 said:


> I think you are spending far too much time and energy on this.  Personally, I would just call the card issuer; cancel the account; and move on.
> 
> George



Yes, time to move on...we do not live in a perfect world....


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## dioxide45 (Dec 26, 2008)

Caius said:


> I've read before about sales staff trying to get people to sign "decline" paperwork at presentations, although I have not seen this myself.  I think I've also read people state they refuse to sign these papers.
> 
> Does anyone have more info on this?  What is the point of the decline paperwork?  Do they hide stuff in there that they try to get you to not read (i.e. credit card application as the OP is reporting)?



Having to sign something to decline makes no sense. Only sign a document if it is to accept the offer and sign the contract. Basically don't sign anything at a presentation. There is no reason to, by being there you are not obligating yourself to buy so you don't have to sign to decline any obligation as you have no obligation.


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## bogey21 (Dec 26, 2008)

dioxide45 said:


> Having to sign something to decline makes no sense.



I initial to decline extras every time I rent a car

George


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## london (Dec 26, 2008)

*New RCI Credit Card*



cerralee said:


> I am sitting here ripping mad.   I just opened my mail and in the mail is a brand new RCI credit card that I never asked for or applied for.
> Last Tuesday my daughter and I went to Atlantic City on a timeshare exchange.  After checking in as per usual the desk asked if we would attend an update on Wyndham's now owning RCI and what the future of timesharing was going to be looking like.  I told her that I don't do presentations but my daughter who recently turned 21 and is an owner on one of my timeshares wanted to hear.  I thought it would be better for her to go through the "experience" with me as I wanted to "educate" her on the ways of salespeople in the world of timeshares.
> Of course the first "lie" by the desk girl that it was a 45 minute update done with a group proved false right from the get go.  We talked to the host of salespeople with me steadfast in my resolve that I did not want to convert ANY of my resorts to points.  I did show them my drivers license at some point as they asked for my credit card which I did not bring with me and I sure as heck wasn't going to give them that.  Of course it was on file at the front desk from when I checked in.
> I did tell them what I owned, an Ocean City fourth of July week which they insisted would be basically worthless after March of this year, A couple of South africa weeks that they did say could be converted to points, and a RTU mexico week which I haven't even registered with RCI yet.
> ...



You must have signed something at the presentation to have them send you a credit card.

The bank that sponsors the RCI credit card ie Chase, Citibank, must inform you of how and why you were sent the card. This is the law.

I would call the card issuer for more details.


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## Pat H (Dec 26, 2008)

I would ask how they got your SS # to apply for the card. I would then call all 3 credit bureaus and tell them that someone opened a credit card in your name without your permission. A recently opened card can lower your credit score. I'd be furious too!


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## GeNioS (Dec 27, 2008)

*Signing to decline*

When you buy a car from us (and I'm sure most anyone) now, you have to sign that you were offered warranties, protections, etc. and chose to decline them.

It's because in our current legal environment, any time a person has serious problems with a car and call a lawyer, the first question the lawyer asks is,"Were you offered an extended warranty?"

It seems that lawyers have proven that if we don't offer extended warranties to everyone, we are discriminating against those who aren't offered them.  If their cars break down, then it's our fault for not offering them and we can be held liable and be forced to fix the car.

The ironic side is that it's turned into an amazing sales tool.  We HAVE to do it, but also get to tell customers they HAVE to sign that they were offered and refused.  It makes many who wouldn't have purchased rethink it.

Doesn't surprise me at all that you would have to initial or sign that you declined.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 27, 2008)

The problem is that in both scenarios provided where you have to sign to decline, are that you are also buying a product or service from that company. You are either purchasing the car or renting it. At a TS presentation you are not buying anything (or haven't yet). I could see you having to sign to decline the financing or special extras (credit insurance) when you are buying the TS. However, the OP was not buying a product or service, so signing to decline makes no sense.

You don't walk up to a car rental counter at an airport to decline renting a car when you have someone picking you up at the airport. It makes no sense that the OP had to sign anything to decline the offer.


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## melschey (Dec 27, 2008)

GeNioS said:


> When you buy a car from us (and I'm sure most anyone) now, you have to sign that you were offered warranties, protections, etc. and chose to decline them.
> 
> It's because in our current legal environment, any time a person has serious problems with a car and call a lawyer, the first question the lawyer asks is,"Were you offered an extended warranty?"
> 
> ...



If I were negotiating the purchase of a car and the salesman asked my to sign a paper declining his offer I would get up and walk out of the room. I would not sign anything until I had decided to actually buy the car.


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## Caius (Dec 27, 2008)

melschey said:


> If I were negotiating the purchase of a car and the salesman asked my to sign a paper declining his offer I would get up and walk out of the room. I would not sign anything until I had decided to actually buy the car.



Yeah, I agree with this train of thought moreso than the example put forth by Genios.  I certainly wouldn't sign any "decline" form put in front of me by TS sales without reading it.  

I still don't know what their angle is.  I'd really like to see the papers signed by the OP, who is stating she signed several "decline" papers.


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## craftemp (Dec 28, 2008)

*Returning Credit Card*



AwayWeGo said:


> Snipping the card in 1/2 & sending both parts back to the credit card company is always a nice touch.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



BUT.. if I did that, I would send each half in a separate envelope.. by putting both pieces in the same envelope, there is always the chance of someone along the way intercepting - they THEY have your card!


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## GrayFal (Dec 28, 2008)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem is that in both scenarios provided where you have to sign to decline, are that you are also buying a product or service from that company. You are either purchasing the car or renting it. At a TS presentation you are not buying anything (or haven't yet). I could see you having to sign to decline the financing or special extras (credit insurance) when you are buying the TS. However, the OP was not buying a product or service, so signing to decline makes no sense.
> 
> You don't walk up to a car rental counter at an airport to decline renting a car when you have someone picking you up at the airport. It makes no sense that the OP had to sign anything to decline the offer.


The OP is a current Wyndham/FSP owner - when u attend an "update", you sign a form that states you were offered a certain deal/upgrade and that u declined the offer. You already own their product/service..... they are offering to enhance that product for you. Their 'reasoning' is that they don't want you coming back saying you weren't offer this 'fabulous deal'. :hysterical:

In reality, it is just a sales ploy to make you think you are missing out on some great offer  


As the car salesman poster a few posts up said, it makes you think you are missing out on something wonderful :whoopie:  and that MAYBE you really should buy that full retail upgrade   for your current Wyn ownership.


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## richardm (Dec 29, 2008)

*B of A credit card enrollment...*

In my experience, the credit application is completed via an online connection that delivers the approval and credit limit report to the resort salesperson (along with a temporary account number good for 10 days only if a down payment on a sale is being processed). 

With that being said, a signed application must then be sent (normally overnight) in order for the charge to be confirmed and approved. If the resort salesperson did not obtain a signed application from the op- the account will not be activated. If a signed application was obtained, the account will be active regardless of whether the resort purchase was completed.

The normal procedure for the salesperson is to copy the info on the client's driver's license, which he probably got at the very beginning of the presentation.

The resorts receive a very small payment for submitting the credit application- but the salesperson doesn't see any of this money- his goal in submitting the application is simply to secure the down payment on a timeshare purchase. He must have been fairly confident of closing the sale, as the application itself takes about 5 to 10 minutes to complete. The pre-approved credit limit is often what the salesperson will then use as the down payment basis for the developer financing.

I'm willing to bet the op signed the credit ap early on in the presentation, but most likely just doesn't remember the actual document. Chances are the op also received a multi-page disclosure statement from the credit card company somewhere in the prospect package.

This isn't really that unusual of an occurrence. Just call and cancel the card account, destroy the cards themselves, and send the salesperson a nice card telling him thank you for all the info as he convinced you to add to your ownership by purchasing on the resale market! 

His sales manager will love that!


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## cerralee (Dec 30, 2008)

Here is what happened with the credit card issue.  I called Bank of America to find out information on the credit card application.  I was told it was submitted on the day that I went on the 'update" (surprise, surprise).  I requested a copy of the application, closed the account and then was transferred over to the fraud department.  Fraud department told me that I must have signed something to authorize the request for a new card, that that’s just what happens in timeshare presentations and there really wasn't a case of fraud here it was just a lapse of memory on my part.

I called the Wyndham skyline towers and tried to reach the sales department so I could request copies of all documents signed on that date.  I was told they had moved from their sixth floor headquarters and was given another number which did not connect me to anyone.

I did get an e-mail from Wyndham doing a standard quality assurance survey where I spelled out my "update" situation and voiced my concerns and asked for copies of all signed documents from that date.  I'm sure they will never read it, much less respond to it.

Yesterday I received the copy of the application from Bank of America along with a cover letter stating that they enclosed the best copy(ies) possible for my records.  The application contained many inaccuracies along with my correct social sec # which I don't give out.  I checked with my daughter and she could not recall me giving out the social sec # either.  I did give them my RCI account number, I did not think any of my resale timeshares would qualify for points and maybe that would bring the 'update" to a quicker end. At the presentation I did mention that I already had an RCI card, just not in my immediate possession, I left it in my room.  I did leave it on file with the front desk.  Don't know if they could have gotten any information from that or not.

I told them several times at the presentation that I was unemployed, had two children in college and I was not considering going into debt for any reason.  Especially not for something that I already owned and was quite happy using just the way it was.

The credit card application listed my income at over two times what I made in my best year of employment. Usually before they have you go on a "presentation or update" they ask your income, they never requested that information at any point either before, during or after the update.  It listed my employer as the National Branch of the non-profit that I did indeed work for for many years but I have not worked for them in about a year and a half.  It (the application) gave my maiden name (which is on my drivers license) as my mothers maiden name. There were no signatures on the application.  On the application received from Bank of America it lists the Aquistion channel as Maximization (whatever that means).  It spelled my name as it only is listed as on my drivers license (leeAnn).  I have a double name and usually only go by the first name (Lee). For some reason when I moved to the state in which I live they took my old drivers license, smashed together my names and added my maiden name as my middle name.  Only place it is listed as such.  The credit card came as LEEANN.  The residence details were fabricated.  I do remember during the presentation that they said they could see if I qualified for their conversion.  I told them not even to bother as I knew my credit was good as I pay all my bills upon receipt and have no credit card debt, mortgage etc., only college payments which I pay in full each semester.  They then questioned me on my residence and how much I paid for it.  All during the "chatty" part of the 'update". I told them the house was more or less a pass down from a family member and I had only put money into renovation through a long ago home equity that has been paid off for some time.  The approximate amount of my home equity (which I did give them a guesstimate) showed up as the purchase price and the current market value showed up as the number I threw out just to try to dissuade them from badgering me. (It was a pretty low number for a house value).

I don't own any Wyndham properties, all of my timeshares are at mediocore resorts, I think my SA resort went Silver Crown but none of the others are crown worthy.  This was all for me to convert my one resort to points.

So bottom line is-I closed the account, I have learned that in the future to always ask for copies of anything signed at a presentation, even if it seems like just the papers to make me think I am missing out on something important("decline sheets"), and the credit card company did not think it was improper.

Lee


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## timeos2 (Dec 30, 2008)

*Let them eat cake (or BS of equal value)*



richardm said:


> This isn't really that unusual of an occurrence. Just call and cancel the card account, destroy the cards themselves, and send the salesperson a nice card telling him thank you for all the info as he convinced you to add to your ownership by purchasing on the resale market!
> 
> His sales manager will love that!



Hey - nice touch! As each TUG affectionato attends a sales pitch get the address and sales weasel name and send a postcard or letter thanking them for pointing you to resale, as it saved you a big chunk of money! Be sure it goes to the general address so the management sees it. Mention how once you saw how much a retail unit costs and they mentioned resale being cheaper (although tainted by questions so it makes some sense that they would have said it), it was a no brainer.  Be profuse in thanking them for "the pointers".  Bye bye Weasel.


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