# High Country Club Part 3



## Steamboat Bill (Nov 5, 2006)

I want to continue a theme on Destination Clubs, specifically "High Country Club" that appears to be the BEST match for TUG members. 

All the other destination clubs are mega bucks ($100,000-$425,000) and because High Country Club is only 1.5 years old (yet they are already the 4th largest DC), they are rapidly growing (160 members) and rapidly INCREASING their membership fees and annual dues. I feel that is a small window of opportunity for the "non-multi-multi-millionaires" that the other clubs seem to cater to. High Country Club has carved out a niche with properties that cost less than $1 million vs the other clubs that focus on $3-4 million dollar houses.

Many of their original properties started as ski locations in Colorado, but they are now expanding to New York, Florida, Caribbean, Mexico, and Hawaii.

I advise you to visit their web site for some background information:

http://www.highcountryclub.com/

Then read Part 1 discussion on TUG was started by "PerryM" in July:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28527&highlight=high+country+club

Then read Part 2 discussion on TUG by "travelguy" in September:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32143&highlight=high+country+club

I have studied this concept since July and I am STRONGLY considering joining High Country Club and want to get other TUG member opinions.

I will post some of my research, specifically in comparison HCC to other Destination Clubs and the higher end Timeshares like Hawaii, Ski weeks, Disney, etc.

For this thread, I want to focus mainly on the Affiliate Membership which you get 3 weeks (21 nights) of usage per year and costs $30K to join and $4,800 MF per year.

I believe HCC will be the #2 DC (behind Exclusive Resorts) within the next 24 months and their buy-in will be $60k for an affiliate member.


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## Steamboat Bill (Nov 5, 2006)

Let me first address some concerns about HCC:

1. This is a Destination Club with outstanding properties and destinations, not a budget timeshare. Check out their 20 or so properties and you will be amazed at the size and beauty of the properties. There are no dogs here, every property would rate 5-star.

2. This is NOT a deeded ownership like a timeshare and there are no fixed weeks or point systems. Additionally, you do not own any real estate and there is no ability to buy low and sell high. In fact, you can only buy from HCC and sell thru HCC. Unfortunately, the selling price is set at 80% your buying price, thus you will LOSE an immediate 20% when you join this club. Also, there is two new members to one out rule.

This seems to be a big factor for TUG members like PerryM and others I have spoken to. I am not as concerned because I view this like joining a HIGH-END Golf Club, or joining a 5 star Resort and Spa. With both of those, you pay a membership fee, annual dues, and get to use the facilities (but they never include sleeping accommodations). I think if you plan on being a member for 5-10 years, the loss of 20% can be factored and averaged into the annual dues. The longer you are a member, the less impact the loss will be. Remember, this is a CLUB that charges a membership fee and annual dues. Members of the CLUB get certain usage of CLUB properties.

3. There is no trading via II or RCI, all reservations are done ONLY via the HCC web site and you can only stay that the HCC properties. You also can't rent out your week on eBay and need a family plan if you want relatives to stay there when you are not there. Additionally, there is no banking or borrowing weeks.


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## Steamboat Bill (Nov 5, 2006)

*Show me the Math*

Here is my math comparing HCC to top-end timeshares:

Assume a 5% lost opportunity cost for all initial purchase prices. Divide this by the total nights of usage to get the lost opportunity cost per night.

Assume the annual dues divided by the nights of usage equals the annual cost per night per year.

Assume the total cost per night = lost opportunity cost per night + annual cost per night

HCC affiliate membership:
$30,000 purchase price, $4,800 annual dues, 21 nights usage, 2-4 bedrooms
Cost per night = $71 + $229 = $300 per night

Ski week (Marriott SummitWatch / Mountainside or Westgate Park City)
$30,000 purchase price (resale), $950 annual dues, 7 nights usage, 2 Bedroom
Cost per night = $214 + $136 = $350 per night

Disney Vacation Club 300 point purchase @ $86pp
$25,800 purchase price, $1,290 annual dues ($4.30 pp), 7 nights usage 2 Bedroom standard
Cost per night = $184 + $184 = $368 per night

Disney Vacation Club 350 point purchase @ $86pp
$30,100 purchase price, $1,505 annual dues ($4.30 pp), 7 nights usage 2 Bedroom preferred
Cost per night = $215 + $215 = $430 per night

Marriott Manor Club (this is NOT really a fair comparison, but I included it for fun)
$10,000 purchase (resale), $735 annual dues, 7 nights usage, 2 Bedroom
Cost per night = $71 + $105 = $176 per night

Does anyone else want to add their opinions…..based upon Hawaii, Mexico, Hilton Head, etc.?

Don’t forget to include II/RCI yearly fees and trade fees that would bump the average cost per night about $20 higher.


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## Steamboat Bill (Nov 5, 2006)

*The other DC fees*

Here are the other Top Destination Clubs for comparison:

Private Escapes preview membership
$50,000 purchase price, $4,600 annual dues (+$78 per night), 14 nights usage, 2-4 bedrooms
Cost per night = $178 + $329 + $78 (nightly fee) = $585 per night

Ultimate Resorts 
$110,000 purchase price, $9,500 annual dues, 14 nights usage, 2-4 bedrooms
Cost per night = $393 + $678 = $1,071 per night

Quinteras Catch the Dream
$175,000 purchase price, $12,000 annual dues, 15 nights usage, 2-4 bedrooms
Cost per night = $583 + $800 = $1,383 per night

Exclusive Resorts affiliate membership:
$225,000 purchase price, $10,500 annual dues, 15 nights usage, 2-4 bedrooms
Cost per night = $750 + $700 = $1,450 per night


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## Laura7811 (Nov 5, 2006)

Bill
 Love all the research your doing. 
Don't forget that alot of the mountain properties have 3 and 4 bedrooms.
So the cost per night is really even less, because you get alot more for your money.
Also the house in HI has 3 bedrooms. that looks to be an incredible property

Laura


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## PerryM (Nov 5, 2006)

*Best of luck to those DC owners*

Bill,

*I was initially excited about DCs but have cooled to them *– fortunately, or unfortunately, the same time I got excited about High Country the pioneer of the industry entered bankruptcy court. 

After having many dealings with condo-hotel developers I have a new respect for “Get it in writing” – the folks there are just as “Trustworthy” as the typical timeshare salesrep rattling off features and benefits of their timeshare.  DC salesreps are, to me, less trustworthy than a real estate agent.

High Country might very well be a great company to invest in – however, there is NO supporting evidence to assume the likelihood that failure is less probable.  Their track record is 1.5 years old and many of the items they initially offered to the first investors are not currently available.  Namely getting 80% of the CURRENT value of memberships back.  I just don’t like offering this feature to early investors and not to all investors – I understand that there was more initial risk but what proof do we really have that the risk has subsided?

There are even less consumer protection for DC owners than timeshare owners – this has got to be a sobering thought for an investor.

And this brings me to *the difference between a DC and timeshare – Investor versus consumer*.  NO investor in their right mind invests in timeshares to make a killing; yet investors are/were lured to DC as an investment.  There is a world of difference.

To me there is only one DC I’d ever get involved with – BelleHavens (Equity based) but even here there are NO consumer protection beyond the written contract of the sales contract.  I may change my mind when the DC industry formally sets up guidelines and works with our legislatures to implement consumer friendly laws.

Until then, resale Marriotts seem to offer a well known and respected developer who seems to have the power to constantly increase the resale value of their resorts.  A written deed backed up with thousands of real estate laws in the 50 states offers at least a modicum amount of consumer protection that is missing from DCs.

I certainly wish those who take this path to DC ownership the best of luck and I’d certainly love to hear how things go and how a DC compares to top end timeshare usage.


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## Steamboat Bill (Nov 5, 2006)

PerryM said:
			
		

> I certainly wish those who take this path to DC ownership the best of luck and I’d certainly love to hear how things go and how a DC compares to top end timeshare usage.



Perry

As you know, I resepct your knowledge regarding TS, DC, Fractional, condo-hotels, etc.

The HCC contract is very specific in that this is NOT an investment, it is a club for member use.

In addition, there is NEVER any assessments (according to the contract).

I WISH there would be a DC that had all the criteria you outlined in your thread a few months ago....that may or may not ever come to fruition.

Thus, I feel HCC represents the BEST opportunity for us average (or above average) TS folks as the industry leader Exclusive Resorts is simply TOO expensive. If I had $425,000 to burn and $27,500 in MF, then I would join Exclusive Resorts in a heartbeat....but that is NOT reality for me.

I agree that HCC looks great on paper and is not a SLAM DUNK as far as risk vs reward in concerned, but I keep comparing the price per day (as being a member) vs the price to rent a similar property.

For example, they just purchased a Deer Valley ski property called Black Bear Lodge. If I was to RENT that unit...it would be $870 per day for a 2 bedroom condo. If I join HCC, I could stay there for $300 per day. Thus, I would save $570 per day x 7 nights = $3,990 for each ski week.

That is why I decided that the only way to compare Apples to Apples was to come up with a formula for comparing: the lost opportunity of the original purchase price + annual dues divided by the # nights rental.

The CONCLUSION I came to was that HCC represents a GOOD value when compared to high end TS (Marriott, Hyatt, DVC, Hilton, etc) and a FANTASTIC value when compared to other Destination Clubs.

I currently feel HCC is a great destination (vacation) club to join. When you consider that there is no hassle of II trading or RCI points or hoping to trade-up into  a hot location at a hot time, the club gains in value. 

Of course, this is a new venture in vacation travel and the bankrupcy of T&H is serious bad news. But I feel most DC are avoiding the mistakes of T&H. Their contract states you would get 60% of your initiation fee back in the event of a bankrupcy (that would mean you could loose $12,000 in the WORST case scenerio).

I am really hoping that HCC turns out to be the real deal. At least for the short to intermediate term, joining the club would result in tremendous savings vs renting a comparable house at these desirable locations. There is a real possibility that this club could grow to be the #2 player in the DC industry and the initation fees will increase to $45k in one year and $60k in two years from now. Thus, this is OUR opportunity to get in on the ground floor of a cool club that allows fantastic vacations. Of course, I wish I would have joined last year when the fees were 1/2 of what they are now, but perhaps in a year or two, I will look back and say "I am really glad I signed up when the prices were cheap."

Disclaimer: "I am NOT a member yet!.....However, I really want to join before the end of the year." Any and all TUG input is appreciated.


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## Steamboat Bill (Nov 8, 2006)

I am still looking forward to any TUG input on HCC.

When you consider the increased MF this year at Marriott's, joining a DC is looking more reasonable every year.


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## Dave*H (Nov 8, 2006)

I think a DC is much riskier than a deeded timeshare.  The worst case scenario with a deeded timeshare is probably a very poorly managed property that gets itself deep in debt and doesn't maintain the property.  In this case, there will probably be large special assessments and increases in MF, but in all likelyhood the property will continue as a timeshare as long as owner are willing to put up with the costs.  If the owners wake up and turn around the poor management, ultimately things should improve and the long term outlook for savings will still be there.

Under the same poor management scenario for a DC, you are likely left with nothing.  I would not put $30K into a timeshare or DC without reviewing the financials of the resort or DC.  Does the DC make this information available?  Do they have a business plan you can review?

OTOH, I have only purchased inexpensive timeshares where I expect my savings in lodging to offset the purchase price in 3 years or less.


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## Steamboat Bill (Nov 8, 2006)

HCC has provided me all financials, but I am not a CPA or attorney.

I realize this is riskier than a traditional TS, but their properties are FAR superior and the reservation process to grab various destinations is a breeze.

I guess it all comes down to: am I willing to assume this intiial risk for the potential of a tremendous payout in a few years.

If you compare Apples-to-Apples, renting a townhouse in Hawaii or ski week is VERY expensive. This program provides a much cheaper alternative.

This has been done before by the early buyers at Exclusive Resorts. They are making out like bandits now that the prices have doubled since they first bought in.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 25, 2006)

*I am now a member*

I bought myself a Christmas gift....and one the entire family can enjoy.

That's right, I finally joined High Country Club!

This is exciting news as the Destination Club business offers extremely high end travel. I looked at all the other DCs out there and this is the one I felt was the best for me. 

I really liked Private Escapes, but with a $500,000 membership fee, I could not justify the price. High Country Club is the same concept, but focuses on properties around $1 million vs $4 million for Private Escapes.

I have been interested since PerryM started the TUG thread about 6 months ago. I have spoken with the club dozens of times and really feel confortable with this organization.

BTW - the Tanner & Hanley bankrupcy has been resolved by another club buying their properties and extending membership to all original owners. Thus, the worst news to hit DC has been solved. Besides, HCC and others have learned by the mistakes of others.

If you are interested, check out High Country Club destinations:
http://www.highcountryclub.com/destinations/Destinations_Map.asp

There are now only 170 members, and there are about 22 destinations available. I think this club will be the #2 or #3 most popular destination club soon as they are the ONLY DC to focus on properties of $1 million or less.

You can read my many posts on the actual "cost per night" of HCC vs traditional timeshares like DVC, Marriott, Hyatt, etc.

Please remember this club compares mostly to the 5-star high end timeshares. The reservation system is online and with only 170 members and 22 destinations to choose, this are great odds. All members are limited to one holiday per year and you have to rotate the holiday once per 3 years.

Thus, I could spend Christmas 2007 in Maui, go skiiing in Januray or February in Deer Valley, and then spend a week during the summer 2008 in Cabo and ....all in the same year!

I will post more on my trips. Perhaps it is time for a Destination Club forum to be added to TUG.


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## ira g (Dec 25, 2006)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I bought myself a Christmas gift....and one the entire family can enjoy.
> 
> That's right, I finally joined High Country Club!
> 
> ...



Good Luck with your purchase. Hope it works out great for you.


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## Laura7811 (Dec 26, 2006)

Congrats Bill, to you,and your family.....what a great xmas gift 
And you got a super deal, with the no dues until july....way to go...

We are going to use the La Costa property soon, I will let you know what I think....


Laura


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## MULTIZ321 (Dec 26, 2006)

Bill,

Congrats on your Christmas gift.  I'm sure you and your family will enjoy some very nice vacations.

Best Wishes for a Happy, Prosperous and Healthy New Year!


Richard


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 26, 2006)

Laura7811 said:


> We are going to use the La Costa property soon, I will let you know what I think....



Laura

Please post your review....I would love to read it..I am going to NYC tomorrow AM for two days. I am trying to visit the NYC property in Times Square, but someone it there now. Hopefully, I can get a sneak peak.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 27, 2006)

I am in NYC at the Omni Berkshire on 52nd Street. The room is about $400 per night for a studio.

I went to visit the HCC property located at 1600 Broadway in Times Square and it is fantastic. This is a $1 million dollar brand new condo on the 10th floor. There is a great workout room and billards and virtural golf on the 4th floor and rooftop terrace on the 26th floor. You could see the 2007 ball on top of 1 Times Square building 2 blocks away.

So far, I am very impressed with High Country Club properties.


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## travelguy (Dec 28, 2006)

*Congrats on your High Country Club purchase!*

Bill,

Thanks for the info on the NYC High Country Club property.


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## taffy19 (Dec 28, 2006)

*Congratulations*

I am so glad you fulfilled your dream and hope you will have many nice vacations with your family. Life is too short to always think about how you can get it cheaper unless you have no choice. 

Enjoy!


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## Laura7811 (Dec 28, 2006)

Thanks Bill, 
 For taking the time to tell us about NYC. We are thinking of booking oct.there.....I wish they would get the pics up on the HCC site

Oh and by the way, I just booked rosemary beach for the week before easter.
We are only going to use the first 4 nights. So, I will be puting up 3 nights for member use. just fyi in case you want them.

Laura


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 28, 2006)

Laura7811 said:


> Thanks Bill,
> For taking the time to tell us about NYC. We are thinking of booking oct.there.....I wish they would get the pics up on the HCC site
> 
> Oh and by the way, I just booked rosemary beach for the week before easter.
> ...



I just booked my first reservation with HCC and it is a doozie...It is the NYC property for December 28, 2007 - January 4, 2008. That's right, I am staying 1 block from where the ball drops in Times Square for New Year eve. I will be able to watch the festivities right from my own room. When I visited the property, I spoke with the door men (two guys that guard the front door) and they said a few units are for sale. A Studio is around $750k and the 1 bedroom is $1.3 Million. The HCC property is a 1 bedroom unit!!

Laura....this is a 6 month old building in the heart of Times Square. I dod not get inside the condo as a guest/member was there and was not in the unit when I visited. The place is very nice...and I get the feeling this property will be hard to book on popular times. You will love the Rosemary beach area as I was there over the summer at the Hilton in Destin. Make sure to visit Seaside (Jim Cary Truman movie was filmed there). The sand and beaches are wonderful. Also visit the Sandestin shopping/dining area that hosts the Club Intrawest timeshare as theat is very nice also. You however, will be staying at a beachside house that usually rents for $500-800 per night.

So far, my opinion of Destination Clubs is great!


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## travelguy (Dec 29, 2006)

*High Country Club NYC Property*



Laura7811 said:


> Thanks Bill,
> For taking the time to tell us about NYC. We are thinking of booking oct.there.....I wish they would get the pics up on the HCC site
> 
> Laura


 
Laura,

The pictures of the unit are not up on the High Country Club web site yet but here is the link to "1600 Broadway" which is the web site for the building. It has great pics of the property!

http://www.1600broadway.com/


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## travelguy (Dec 29, 2006)

*High Country Club vs. HGVC NYC*



Steamboat Bill said:


> I just booked my first reservation with HCC and it is a doozie...It is the NYC property for December 28, 2007 - January 4, 2008. That's right, I am staying 1 block from where the ball drops in Times Square for New Year eve. I will be able to watch the festivities right from my own room. When I visited the property, I spoke with the door men (two guys that guard the front door) and they said a few units are for sale. A Studio is around $750k and the 1 bedroom is $1.3 Million. The HCC property is a 1 bedroom unit!!



Bill, 

Nice booking!

I find it interesting that as a HGVC member I have great trouble getting into the HGVC NYC location, let alone for New Years.  It appears that you can pay approximately the same price for one dedicated week at the HGVC NYC property (not New Years though) or 6 1/2 weeks at High Country Club that has the potential for New Years.  (_disclaimer - not intended to be a thorough analysis, just a passing thought_  )



> So far, my opinion of Destination Clubs is great!



I'm with you.  So far, so good!


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## PerryM (Dec 29, 2006)

*Congrats Bill!*

Hi Bill,

Congratulations on your purchase – I hope all goes as you hope it will.  If you can keep us appraised to your adventures with HCC that would be great.

We just spent Christmas week in Park City snowboarding so the Deer Valley location would not be ideal for us (Deer Valley discriminates against snowboarders like my family)  We had a number of friends (3 2-BR condos) staying at the new WorldMark 5 minutes from the new Deer Valley gondola.  Those condos cost me $400 in MF each.  The resort is new and in a very nice setting in Midway UT.  I’m not comparing the WM unit to the HCC unit at Deer Valley, just the ability to get to Deer Valley for a large group for basically peanuts at 5-star accommodations (timeshare definition of 5-star).

It is good to see the DC industry rallying to prop up its founding company that entered bankruptcy and is now stable – this is a very good sign.  I, am looking forward to your adventures in this realm – please keep us informed if you can.

I do believe that the DC industry could explode and give the upper range timeshares a run for their money.  As with many new ventures the “rich” are targeted first and then the “middle class” next with much lower prices.  HCC seems to be the first to go after the “Upper Middle Class” market with is 100 times the size of the “rich” market.  The “Middle Class” is 100 times larger than even the “Upper Middle Class”.  I look forward to some good competition to the timeshare market as it now stands.

Again, congratulations and best wishes to your enjoyment of HCC.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 29, 2006)

Thanks Perry....I actually give you "props" for starting the original thread on HCC.

I am amazed by the price you paid for WM Midway...that is a steal by any definition.

Because I have kids, I put a premium on Ski-in/ski-out properties and I am willing to pay for this location. I equate it to going to Hawaii and having to drive 5-10 minutes to get to the beach or stay "off-site" at DisneyWorld....that may be fine for many people...just not me.

HCC offers a ton of snowboard friendly properties in Colorado and so far so good in booking the locations as the member to house ratio is about 7:1 currently. I just happened to like Deer Valley at mid-mountain as this property costs about $800 per night to rent during ski season and I can book a week using HCC and it only costs me less than $300 per night to stay there.


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## PerryM (Dec 29, 2006)

*1 week too late*

Bill,

If we had stumbled on HCC 1 week earlier, we would have probably bought.  Sounds like HCC is a great match for your family’s vacation needs and I’m curious how the club actually operates – not what the salesreps tell us how it should.

I’d hope that other companies look at HCC and see that $500,000 membership fees are fine but $50,000 will result in 100 times the sales.  This is assuming that the clubs can actually function and thrive at this level.

Happy New Year!


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## m61376 (Dec 29, 2006)

First, congrats!
Reading and then re-reading your post makes HCC sound very interesting, esp. with your first reservation being such a hot one! Instead of watching it on TV you can watch from the windows of your condo, without having to worry about freezing temps. Lived on LI my whole life, yet have never braved the crowds at Times Square.

I do wonder, however, how these function in reality once sales increase. I understand that, in theory, they add members and add locations. However, I am assuming that they don't maintain that nice 7:1 ratio and, as they become more sold out, getting those prime weeks/locations may become comparable to making reservations at a Marriott, etc.. Single owners of Marriott complain about not getting a 13 month preference (although half are reserved for 12 month out reservations). Affiliate members of HCC seem to have a lower booking priority than some of the other memberships for at least some of the weeks; as they sell all the available weeks will the reservations become problematic?

Also- you are guaranteed that there will be no special assessments. What about increases in annual MF's? Is there a guarantee wrt MF's? Otherwise, what stops them from increasing annual fees across the board to cover the need for special assessments, increased property taxes, fuel surcharges and the like?

Please don't misunderstand- I am not being critical- just interested in learning about this.


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## steve1000 (Dec 29, 2006)

Bill -
Congratulations on joining HCC! In reading the posts and reviewing their website it looks extremely appealing. If I didn't already own more weeks than I can currently use I would be very tempted to join. The properties look terrific. I toured the La Costa property last summer and it is magnificent (I own at Four Seasons Aviara which is very close to La Costa)!! Enjoy - and keep us posted on how its working for you. I think you made a good move.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 29, 2006)

HCC will alway maintain a meber to house ratio of 6-8 members per one house. This is the normal range for the destination club industry. Thus, I hope they get more members, because they will add more locations or more duplicate locations and it will be easier for TUG savy members to snag great locations at great weeks.

All memebers get one long term holiday week per year. But the same holiday can only be rented once per every three years. Thus, I can't grab New Years week for another 2 years, but I can grab Christmas next year, and July 4th the year after, etc.

All members have EQUAL access to booking weeks. The only restrictions are no sooner than 1 year in advance, and rotated holidays. The affililiate members get 3 weeks: 1 holiday, 1 long term non-holiday, and one short term (less than 90 days). The Private members, group, corporate only get MORE weeks to reserve, but have no priority over the affiliate members.

The destination club leader (2000 members), Exclusive Resorts, has three levels of membership starting at $225,000 (15 nights with no holiday weeks) to $325,000 (25 nights with no christmas or new year) to $425,000 (45 nights with one holiday week that may include christmas or new year). I think spending $225k and NOT being able to reserve any holiday weeks is a RIP-OFF....that is why I think High Country Club is such a great deal.

I am not a sales rep for HCC...but I think this is the BEST deal for destination clubs and represents better value than many high-end timeshares (refer to my previous threads on comparison to ski weeks).


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## PeelBoy (Dec 29, 2006)

*Math is not right*

Bill, congratulations.  I spent hours browsing HCC web site to determine whether I should give myself a treat.

Very tempting, but the math is not right.

The New York high rise definitely costs 1 million.  If everyone is affiliated members only, HCC will have 0.51 million (365 days/21*30K) and for other categories, from 0.4 to 0.48 million.  HCC cannot afford million dollar propertys for every one of them.

Annual dues collectable per year for the New York property can range from 50K per year ($4,800 times 17, sorry I didn't use a calculator) to 76K.  I would guess lots of members are either affilitated or private, so a fair estimate may be slightly more than 60K.  HCC will have to pay property tax, utilities, maintenance fee for the condo and reserve fund.  A Marriott property can easily collect over 50K per a 2 bedroom unit per year.

Of course, not every house is as expensive as 1600 Broadway.  The Sea Pine at HHI (I love HHI) may not be too pricey, but RCC has only 0.4 to 0.51 million on average to spend on each of them.  Sea Pine's rental for a 3 bedroom is from $1,600 to $3,500.  Assuming $2,200 is the average, 3 weeks is $6,600.  After deducting your annual dues, you have $1,800 back. Use this to amortize the initial investment of $30,000 (factor out opportunity cost and return on investment), you need 17 years, which is like buying wholesale from a timeshare developer.  80% opt out is good, but for now is nothing more than a promise.

Currently, there are 25 properties, and you said 180 members, so there are 7 members per property.  Unless all of them are high end members RCC is not close to having a critical mass for survival.

Am I missing something?  Given my age and financial status, 30K is affordable, but I don't want to get burned.


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## m61376 (Dec 29, 2006)

Do they guarantee only 6-8 members per house- because that would leave the house empty probably around half the time, wouldn't it? How can only 6-8 members support a $1 million unit (to say nothing about giving HCC a nice profit)? 

What about the MF's- are there any stipulations as to annual increases?

What I was referring to when I questioned reservation priority is that different memberships entitled the owners to long or short term reservations, and was wondering if that had the potential to be problematic down the road.

I was actually quite intrigued by the posts I read on this. Your analysis of the cost as compared to other high end timeshares was quite interesting. It just seems...well, perhaps a little too good.


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## PeelBoy (Dec 29, 2006)

*Future Destinations*

Bill, another concern about their future destinations.

I would doubt it whether the members are willing to pay 30K to 60K to go to some of the destinations.  For example, Outerbanks is lovely, but no more development is allowed there.  HCC probably will buy a unit or 2 from a current resort or buy a house there for complete renovation.

The key is a lot of timesharers in Outerbanks are paying from a few hundreds to like two thousand dollars.  The property is not what they are looking for (though OBBC is quite capable).  They want the beach only.  Outerbanks is very season sensitive.  It is challenging for HCC to maintain the occupancy rate.


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## PeelBoy (Dec 29, 2006)

*More Questions*

Sorry, me again.

HCC is a developer (or a better word a broker), not a ebay-er.  Their model is like Royal Holiday Club, though RHC is a hybrid model.  For 30K, you get 3 weeks, i.e. 10K a week, which is the developer's price for a silver crown or a no name resort (1 or 2 bedroom, not 3) all over North America.  Because of the sky high selling cost, a developer must sell 3 or 4 times of the cost to make a profit. Marriott sells a unit for 1.5 to 1.8 millions for a construction cost way below 0.5 million.

Did HCC build/buy or lease their properties?  This may be the reason for their survival, just like the Royal Holiday Club.


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 31, 2006)

I will send some of these questions to HCC to get their feedback. Some of these issues were raised months ago on TUG, simply do a search for High Country Club.

Remember that this is NOT a deeded ownership property. This is a CLUB. By joining the CLUB, you get access and useage of the HCC property, but you do not own any shares of the property.

I live in Boca Raton, FL and MOST of my friends are members in golf clubs or resorts that have initiation fees raingin from $25k-$250k and have high yearly fees. I could never justify that expense as I play golf only 4-6 times per year. However, I can relate to the Desitnation Club industry as a CLUB and is different than timeshares, fractional ownership, or full ownership properties.

Destination clubs are a new industry, but in my opinion, will be a real force soon. Most clubs (expcet HCC) are targeting very high net worth individuals and have properties that average $3-4 million each. HCC is the FIRST club to target upper-middle class members with properties averging around $850,000.

Thus, if you try to apply the timeshare math model to the destination club, it will not work. Besides, HCC is only 1.5 years old and these are introductory prices. They plan on raising fees each year until the buy-in price is around $80k-$100k. At that point, you would kick yourself for not joining when the prices were cheap.

As an example, I read in the newspaper today that "standard hotel rooms" with a view of Times Square at Doubletree Guest Suites are going for $2,000 for this year's celebration. I was able to book a 1 bedroom CONDO for an entire week including New Years for about $1,600 for 7 nights. I will also have a view of the ball dropping.


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## steve b (Dec 31, 2006)

*High Country,  What Incentives Ect?*

I am beginning to consider HCC.  How long can the maint fees be defered during the first year of membership?  Are there any free weeks as a purchase incentive?  Can the affiliate fee be charged to a credit card for rewards points? Is there any short term financing?  Is there any ability to negociate for a lesser period (ie, 14 days) for a lesser price?
Thanks for your help
steve b


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 31, 2006)

steve b said:


> I am beginning to consider HCC.  How long can the maint fees be defered during the first year of membership?  Are there any free weeks as a purchase incentive?  Can the affiliate fee be charged to a credit card for rewards points? Is there any short term financing?  Is there any ability to negociate for a lesser period (ie, 14 days) for a lesser price?
> Thanks for your help
> steve b



I suggest calling Heath at HCC and ask these questions.

I know they can be flexible with deferring club usage for 1 year if you join (pay in full) and pay first year MF (thats what I did). That way you do not use any properties for one year, but you can still make reservations.

No free weeks....sorry. I would not even ask this question.

Credit card purchases may be possible for purchase as the MF can be set-up for CC payments.

They do have financing plans, but I paid in full as I am of the opinion that financing anything other than your primary house is probably a waste of money.

The MINIMAL plan is 21 days usage.

BTW: Even though there are 45 day plans for HCC and other destination clubs, most members DO NOT use 100% of all their days allotment. I know this is blasphmy or treason for TUG members, but these clubs are designed for rich people and sometimes...they simply don't need to MAXIMIZE every club they join.

Thus, I have mixed feelings about sharing my knowledge about these clubs with TUG users because if more TUG savy members join, it will be harder for me to book the hot properties at the hot weeks. The way it is now....I am in the cat bird seat.

TUG users are much more aggressive and smarter than the average bear when it comet time to book prime weeks and properties (with any TS or DC). This is one area that the rich-folks can't compete.


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## m61376 (Dec 31, 2006)

Steamboat Bill said:


> BTW: Even though there are 45 day plans for HCC and other destination clubs, most members DO NOT use 100% of all their days allotment. I know this is blasphmy or treason for TUG members, but these clubs are designed for rich people and sometimes...they simply don't need to MAXIMIZE every club they join.
> 
> Thus, I have mixed feelings about sharing my knowledge about these clubs with TUG users because if more TUG savy members join, it will be harder for me to book the hot properties at the hot weeks. The way it is now....I am in the cat bird seat.
> 
> TUG users are much more aggressive and smarter than the average bear when it comet time to book prime weeks and properties (with any TS or DC). This is one area that the rich-folks can't compete.


Hahaha...so true. They can't be bothered reading and learning about the intracacies involved in making good trades.

Even with timeshare ownership- which targets a different financial group- what percentage of units are not used each year? I would assume it is more than likely that it would be at least as high in these clubs, wherein the members have more idsposable income, so a wasted few days or even week(s) is not a big deal.


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## steve b (Dec 31, 2006)

Thanks Bill for the insight,  I will mention your name in case there is any kind of referal bonus  should I complete this purchase.  I also asked about credit cards because some of the new premium American Express cards may protect the customer and re-imburse all or some of the charge should the company go belly up, not to mention the ff miles.  I assume by your post that you prepaid your 2008 maint fees which enabled you to make reservations for 2008 as early as possible?  And yes Tug members are savy but we are still way in the minority of owners.  Thanks for all your info and in depth analysis, the company owes you a commission
steve b


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## Steamboat Bill (Dec 31, 2006)

steve b said:


> I assume by your post that you prepaid your 2008 maint fees which enabled you to make reservations for 2008 as early as possible?  And yes Tug members are savy but we are still way in the minority of owners.  Thanks for all your info and in depth analysis, the company owes you a commission



Thanks....yes I paid my membership in full and 2008 dues. I felt it was the right thing to do because they have been flexible with me in postponing my membership and keeps my buy-in fee from being raised.

I have never asked about a commission....hmmmm perhaps I should. I am simply happy with the TUG forums and HCC. I am happy to share knowledge for free.

I found out about HCC due to PerryM first, even though he did not join (yet).....thanks Perry.


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## PerryM (Jan 1, 2007)

*I'm rooting for Bill*

One of the reasons I’ve cooled to HCC and other DCs is that the math just doesn’t make sense (Cents?):

80% - 90% of new business fail in the first few years of operation – HCC has been in business since 2005 – a very dangerous time for them right now.  The odds favor HCC to end in failure and not success.  There are NO protections for a member in HCC – just the word of some folks on the phone.

If 8 folks are needed to buy a $900,000 home then each should pay a membership fee of $112,500; HCC’s is currently $50,000 – this just doesn’t make any sense to me.

I’m assuming that half the cost of that $900k home was down payment and half financed.  That would mean that each of the 8 members pay $56,250 and they get a 30 year mortgage of $3,000 per month ($450,000 at 7% for 30 years) or $375 per month per member or $4,500 per year per member.  The current MF is $8,400 per year or only $3,900 per member goes towards maintenance and management fees.  Assume 50% of that goes to management fees then only $1,950 per year per member goes towards keeping up a $900k home.  That’s $15,600 per year and I’d bet the taxes and fees for that home are greater than that.  The numbers just don’t make sense.

I’d encourage HCC to respond and explain the above inconsistencies – I asked these questions before of HCC and never got an answer that I felt comfortable with.

I certainly like the concept of DCs and the prices HCC are charging are attractive but I just don’t see how they can make this all work and be viable; especially with a start up company in a start up industry with little track record.

HCC may have a winning management team and luck may be with them – but is the risk worth it versus getting a watered down version of a DC with timeshares that have some consumer laws to protect you and perhaps a deed.  I’m staying with the timeshare model myself.

For the above reasons I passed on buying HCC but am very interested in how HCC operates in the next few years.   If they do well there will be competition and lower prices with better terms.

The better terms interest me:
1)	90% of current membership fee when cancelling
2)	100% of the homes bought and paid for up front – NO debt to worry about
3)	The members buy a percentage of the master deeds to the units with NO subornation to creditors if the management team botches their job

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for competition to offer the above – then I’ll face the problem of buying in again.

Don’t get me wrong – Bill did his analysis and has decided that the risks are worth it and I am rooting for him; I look forward to hearing how Bill likes and uses the DC.

Happy New Year to all


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 1, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Don’t get me wrong – Bill did his analysis and has decided that the risks are worth it and I am rooting for him; I look forward to hearing how Bill likes and uses the DC.



I have personally forwarded several questions to HCC from Peelboy and PerryM posts. I will post their answers after I get them.

I can address a few concerns myself:

Of the 22 properties (or so) only 3 are leased and the rest are owned. The goal of HCC is to own everything, but there are some resorts (Beaver Creek, Playa de Carmen, and one Breckenridge) that do not allow DC to buy, thus they have to lease.

HCC is currently only paying about 20-30% down payments on their properties. Thus, most properties are mortgaged 70-80%. The goal is to steadily increase the downpayment as the buy-in price gets raised. The current memebr to house ratio will float between 6 and 7 to one house. The buy-in price will eventually rise to about $80-$100k per private member.

Yes, HCC is new and "I did my analysis" and ultimately concluded that the risk is worth it for me. Could I loose 100% of my deposit.....perhaps, but the contract does offer some protection for me in the case of a bankrupcy. I kinda look at HCC like an IPO in the stock market (i.e. Google at $85) and that this opportunity gets me in on the ground floor (cheap stock price). Hopefully, the industry will take off (price will go up) and I will be happy I bought when the price was low (Google is now $475).

Besides, after seeing the quality of the properties and the price per night I can reserve them for (as compared to renting them)...it won't take long until the "effective buy-in price for me" is almost nill.

Again, I found the "risk for me" was worth it. This club is not for everyone, but it will certainly be a fun ride.


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## m61376 (Jan 1, 2007)

PerryM's post regarding the number of owners to each house is what really confuses me about this whole concept. I, too, cannot see how the membership concept can sustain itself - even if hundreds or thousands of new people are attracted, this ratio would just dig HCC further into debt, wouldn't it? I understand that the concept is for the membership fees to increase (like the IPO analogy that Bill suggested) but (again as Perry detailed) wouldn't the average fees need to more than double just to cover the purchase price? Alternately, the  8:1 ratio would have to increase significantly, which would likely make the whole reservation system less palatable.

Bill- if, as you anticipate, the growth hinges on the value - and thus the cost- of membership increasing to sustain the current model, isn't there a concern that the cost will exceed the means of HCC's target audience? This is targeted, as you pointed out, to the upper middle class, with properties in the million dollar range. If the purchase price doubles or triple, wouldn't their target audience have to be more well-heeled? In that case, would the million dollar properties be as attractive, or would they be looking for more?

Of course, we all may be kicking ourselves in a few years while you  ....


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## PeelBoy (Jan 1, 2007)

Bill, I agree with you HCC is a lifestyle, so we can't use TS math to judge DC.  I also have a golf membership, and the average cost per use is like $500, so I can't never rationalize it from a cost-benefit perspective.  It is a lifestyle and a privilege we choose to enjoy.

After said that, I still believe the current business model doesn't work unless very soon HCC membership will raise to 80 to 100K.

I am going to do my due diligence by calling HCC to talk to a sales rep.  will keep you posted.

I paid a developer 18K 8 years ago, so 30K for 21 days to me is a steal. BTW, do you know anything about the future destinations?  Are they only a dream? Or, a work in progress?


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## eal (Jan 1, 2007)

If 8 members each use one house for 3 weeks,  that covers about 1/2 the year, with a week or two each year set aside for upkeep.  Some members may use more weeks of course, but do you think that HCC plans to rent for half the year to get additional revenues from the property?  

That would be an interesting business model, rent high for half the year and "rent" lower for the other half of the year as a sure thing from members.  Is there any evidence of a rental business that goes along with the timeshare business?


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 1, 2007)

eal said:


> If 8 members each use one house for 3 weeks,  that covers about 1/2 the year, with a week or two each year set aside for upkeep.  Some members may use more weeks of course, but do you think that HCC plans to rent for half the year to get additional revenues from the property?
> 
> That would be an interesting business model, rent high for half the year and "rent" lower for the other half of the year as a sure thing from members.  Is there any evidence of a rental business that goes along with the timeshare business?



I will answer some general questions, but I am NOT a HCC employee or investor.

There is a lot of misunderstanding on TUG about the member to house ratio. 

The HCC ratio is for a "PRIVATE" Member to house ratio. Thus, 45 days x 8 members = 360 days per year used or 45 days x 7 members = 315 days used. It will take 2 affiliate members (21 days) to equal one private member.

HCC will NOT rent unused days as this is not part of their business model.

Beginning December 31, 2006, High Country Club will provide documentation from an independent audit stating the coverage of its Member deposit obligations which will be performed on an annual basis. 

High Country Club is a founding member of the Destination Club Association and sits on the board of directors. By year end, the Destination Club Association will provide a Q&A sheet detailing the specifics of DCA Membership.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 1, 2007)

*Price Increase on March 1, 2007*

Big news.....HCC just announced a price increase effective March 1, 2007that ONLY affects "affliliate members"...whew...I am glad I joined last month!

This follows a steady patter of price increases about every 6 months. This is typical and expected for a new club.

Here are the details (affiliate membership):

Membership fee: $30,000 ($40,000 effective March 1, 2007) 
Annual dues: $4,800 ($5,400 effective March 1,2007) 
No nightly fees 
Travel planning services and Concierge 
Up to 21 nights of use per year 
Ability to recoup 80% of membership fee*

I find it interesting that they are only increasing the "Affliate" buy-in and dues; and NOT the "Private" Membership. I actually think this is GOOD news and healthy for the club. It will be easier to run a club with less "higher paying private" members than it would be with more "lower paying affliate" members.

I will update my calculations in a week or two, depending on if they raise Private membership fees also. After March 1, 2007, I would porobably reccomend joining as a Private member rather than an affiliate member, but personally I can't travel 45 days per year.

-----> refer to this thread page 1 - post #3

For a fast calculation: the new price increase will increase the average cost per night of usage by about $52 per day based upon a 21 night plan.

HCC affiliate membership (after March 1, 2007):
$40,000 purchase price, $5,400 annual dues, 21 nights usage, 2-4 bedrooms
Cost per night = $95 + $257 = $352 per night

The new price increase represents a 17% INCREASE in average cost per night vs the current plan.


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## myip (Jan 1, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Annual dues: $4,800 ($5,400 effective March 1,2007)



This doesn't make sense that you have 2 different maintenace fees based on when you join the same program.  What happens in 2008?


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 1, 2007)

myip said:


> This doesn't make sense that you have been two different maintenace fees based on when you join the same program.  What happens in 2008?



Sure it makes sense...the early adopters get the better price. You snooze and you looze. The members now (including myself) are paying more than the members who joined 12 months ago as there have been 2 price increases and the 3rd will occur on March 1, 2007. I joined a few months after the 2nd price increase. I am now kicking myself for NOT joining when PerryM first posted info about the club in July 2006.

This is a CLUB...NOT a SHARED yearly expense like a timeshare. In a timeshare, everyone pays their 1/52 share and those in a 2 BDR pay more than a studio...etc.

Once you join, you are locked into the same MF per year + cost of living adjustment (which is less than 5%). If you see what happened this year to Marriotts....the MF went up 15% or more for some properties. This will not happen with HCC as it is in the contact.

To all TUG users....this is NOT a timeshare....it is a club. The math is different and you don't own anything.


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## chrisfromOC (Jan 10, 2007)

*Reservation priority?*

How does their system work as far as assigning priority when many members want the same ppty for the same week?


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 11, 2007)

chrisfromOC said:


> How does their system work as far as assigning priority when many members want the same ppty for the same week?



All members have an equal opportunity to get the same property at the same week at the same time.

The only restrictions are:
Can't book online before 12:00 midnight exactly 365 days in advance
Can't repeat the same holiday week every three years

Thus, if I am a member and book Hawaii for Jan 11, 2008 and I am the first to grab it online at exactly one second past midnight and it is not during a holiday week I have used within the past three years...I get the unit.

That is why TUG members should jump all over HCC membership. The average (or above average) TUG user will blow away the average HCC members. Most people are simply too lazy to book one year in advance and do it at midnight. 

Snagging the best HCC properties at the best times would be child's play for most TUG users. Look at my FIRST reservation...New Years week 2007-2008 in Times Square in a $1 million brand new condo. I will be able to look out my window and see the ball drop from 2007 to 2008.

In fact, most destination club members do not even use 100% of their allowed nights per year.....imaging that.

The only downsides of HCC are: no renting, no transferring, no trading, no resale allowed. You can only sell your membership back to HCC for 80% of your purchase price and there is no increase in resale value.

However, the destination club is a new industry and HCC is a rapidly growing club. Their prices are dirt cheap now. They have already had 2x price increases for membership adn the prices will go up another $10k in march.....if you are considering joining, you can PM me for my phone number and I will be happy to privately discuss the club with you.

So far....I really love HCC. I have mixed feelings about posting glowing reviews on TUG as it may cause power users to join and give me some competiton in making reservations. But they have 24 properties and will add a new property for every 7 new members. Thus the more members, the more location they will add. I simply am hoping a lot of rich lazy folks join HCC rather than a bunch of smart TUGers.....if you catch my drift.


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## caribbeansun (Jan 11, 2007)

Thank you for the ongoing feedback Bill as I find these discussions quite interesting.

As best I can figure it HCC's business plan must look something like this:

get a bunch of people on board early
finance at least 50% of the purchase price of every property
use mf's to make mortgage payments as well as the more traditional elements of a mf
increase buy-ins to help reduce the overall debt level going forward in later years
increase mf's in later years to pay for the maintenance on the older properties as repairs are needed
HCC's profit play is the appreciation of the real estate while fixing the payout to members on dissolution because there isn't any profit per se in the mf's (at least not presently) and there's likely some profit on the buy of a property that's been rolled into the mortgage.
Key risk element point is if future sales rates decline there will have to be a very significant increase in mf's going forward or the sale of properties in an attempt to reduce debt levels.

Did I miss anything?


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 11, 2007)

caribbeansun said:


> Key risk element point is if future sales rates decline there will have to be a very significant increase in mf's going forward or the sale of properties in an attempt to reduce debt levels.
> 
> Did I miss anything?



I think your summary is very accurate...except the MF for current members are locked to COI + 2% max and the member to house ratio is about 7:1


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## steve b (Jan 11, 2007)

*I'm in HCC*

After all the posts and research I finally decided to join HCC.  I must say so far the sales staff has been extremely proffessional and have been a pleasure to work with in the contract process.  I received my member ID and have done numerous searches of the on line reservation system and am extremely pleased with the availability. (Much better than we are all use to with II and RCI)  So far I give High Country two thumbs up!
steve b


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## Carlsbadguy (Jan 12, 2007)

I just got he info in the mail.  I do have a couple of concerns. Affiliate members can only schedule a holiday week 6 months in advance, so I don't know how much holiday availability will be available.  A lot of weeks are considered holiday weeks- including 4 weeks of soring break.  Also affiliate members don't have an option of getting extra time.  There is also the no renting policy and the fact that the member has to be in residence for all weeks.  I am still considering doing this but need to look into it further.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 12, 2007)

HCC will not allow renting your week. They have a family pass that allows immediate family members useage, but not strangers. This is becasue they are $1m properties and they want to make it exclusive for members.

HCC is alos making a few tighter restrictions on affiliate members as the club grows. I can see how the club will soon only cater to Private Members only as they would rather deal with less members at a higher buy-in and MF. 

If I was retired, I would have joined as a Private Member, but I can't get that much time off, thus I joined as an affiliate member. 

One thing to remember is that the Holiday reservations rotate one holiday per three year cycle. Thus with the current membership at 180 members, you in essence will only have 60 people possible competiting for 24 properties for any given holiday week.

Also consider the cost of a Holiday Hawaii or Park City Marriott week. The price for HCC is about the same, but you get 3 weeks: one holiday, one long term, one short term.

I agree that the spring break should be a holiday week because the club was started by skiiers and catered to the ski crowd. The Feb-March spring break period of 4 weeks is considered a holiday week.


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## Laura7811 (Jan 12, 2007)

To us the best thing about Hcc, is the way reservations work. If for some reason i don't get My first choice there are so many other great places to go, your going to get something.

And we plan on being members for a long time. So, if there is a property thats real hot in the beginning eventualy it will become available when we want it...


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## Carl D (Jan 13, 2007)

Steamboat Bill said:


> I have personally forwarded several questions to HCC from Peelboy and PerryM posts. I will post their answers after I get them.


Bill, I have been following this thread with a bit of interest. 
Any response to these questions, or did I just miss it somewhere in the thread?

Yes, it's a different business model than a timeshare, but 2+2 still =4, no matter what the business endeavor.


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## caribbeansun (Jan 13, 2007)

It's hard for me to understand how they can make good on that particularly given the leverage being used.  Five years from now when a mortgage matures if interest rates rise that would leave them without recourse.

If they can't get the increased costs from the existing members then they'd have to increase the cost to new members which of course makes the membership less desirable which could result in a decline of sales which leaves other parts of the plan vulnerable.

I tend to be quite conservative so perhaps that's why this bothers me and I hope everything works as planned for you!



Steamboat Bill said:


> I think your summary is very accurate...except the MF for current members are locked to COI + 2% max


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 13, 2007)

Carl D said:


> Bill, I have been following this thread with a bit of interest. Any response to these questions, or did I just miss it somewhere in the thread?
> 
> Yes, it's a different business model than a timeshare, but 2+2 still =4, no matter what the business endeavor.



I forwarded these messages to Heath Kirschner of HCC and he felt the explanations that have been posted on TUG (HCC part 1-3) were accurate.

He told me that he would disclose all their accounting books and projections to potential members, but you would have to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Althought this may sound strange, I signed the NDA two months ago and I was impressed with the amount of information they sent me. As far as I can tell, they have exceeded all their expectations and projections.

The DC industry is very small and competitive, HCC is already the 4th largest one and I predict they will be #2 shortly. The most appealing feature of HCC is their focus on properties that cost $850k-$1m where all the other DCs focus on properties that cost $3-$4m. 

Thus, HCC really has no direct competition. I was the one who started the threads on TUG explaining that the real competition for HCC is the high-end timeshares. I currently own well over $100,000 worth of timeshare properties and $500k worth of hotel/condos. When I compared the math, I decided that the HCC destination club was a better value for me and my family.

I love the locations and sizes of the HCC properties and the fact that an "educated TS user (myself)" can really maximize the destination club experience.

I am not a shill for HCC..you can search all my TUG threads and find out that I have posted dozens of threads on how much I loved DVC and my Westgate Park City timeshares. There are even a few threads about my Marriott Manor Club purchase and my experience with Hotel/condos in Whistler. I even posted a message that I really DON'T want any TUG users to join HCC as they will give me more competition for reservations than the average lazy rich (less aggresive) members.

I highly reccomend looking into the affiliate program NOW as the price increases March 1, 2007. After March, I will probably only reccomend the Private Membership as the price difference will not be that much.


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## caribbeansun (Jan 13, 2007)

Well, curiousity got the better of me and I've requested their information on their Group plan to see if there's a possible fit with some other folks I know.

I'll be more than happy to post what I can here as I learn more.

Cheers!


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 22, 2007)

I spoke with Heath today and he informed me that they are getting ready to announce a few more new locations.

I can't post them yet, but one is a mountain ski property, one is an international, and one is a US city.

I remain impressed by the HCC quality.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 24, 2007)

*HCC now has 200 members!!!*

HCC has added about 30 new members in the past 60 days. This is good news because for every 8 new members, HCC must add a new property. 

FYI: the buy-in price increases $10k on March 1st. If you have any questions, you can PM me directly.

Here is a press release HCC announced today.....


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Heath Kirschner, High Country Club
(720) 221-0416
Heath@highcountryclub.com

High Country Club Exceeds 200 Members
Destination Club Makes 25 Luxury Properties Available Worldwide

[_Text of press release removed - please review the posting rules re copyrighted material.  Anyone interested may click here to read the release from the HCC website. -- mg_]


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## travelguy (Jan 25, 2007)

*200 Members!*

Bill,

This is great news for High Country Club members!   

More properties @ no additional cost to us.  The 200 member mark puts High Country Club WAY ahead of their 10 year business plan projection that they sent to me during my due diligence of the company.  This gives High Country Club tremendous cash flow, asset accumulation and property appreciation that benefits members, principles and investors alike.  This is why a properly executed Destination Club business plan is a win/win/win situation for all involved!


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## Bourne (Jan 25, 2007)

After doing my due diligence, I am in the process of signing up as an affiliate member. 

Here is the reason why we are buying a HCC membership. 

Both the wife and I are in our early 30s. For the longest time, we, as DINKS, were happy and contended with a hotel unit for our vacations. There was no need to cook and partying out was much more fun. 

About 6 years back, we bought our first HGVC property because we knew our requirements will change to a minimum of a 1Br unit going forward. Again, we were booking studio units as much as possible to maximize out points/day usage till the baby was born about a year back. 

Now, the minimum requirement is a 1Br unit with a kitchen. For the most part, we do not travel in off/shoulder season. As a result, the yearly outlay of 7000 points is not enough. We had to depend on SFX promotions to somehow get 2-4 weeks worth of 1Br units. Even though I have had great success with exchanges (Four Seasons Aviara, Westin Kierland, Grand Mayans, Manhattan Club, Windjammer St Lucia, etc...), the effort and flexibility required is not worth it at times. As a result, we bought the second 7000 platinum unit about six months back. 

Now, with a year old toddler in place and another kid planned in the next few years, the requirement has gone up to a minimum of 2Br unit for travels 3-5 years from now. A minimum of three 2Br platinum weeks with HGVC/Starwood would cost me north of 40K and 3K in annual dues. And exchanging into a 2Br unit instead of 1Br is far more difficult. 

Honestly, I don't want to 'seriously consider' buying a destination club membership 5 years from now when the minimum buy-in price is north of 150K-200K. I am willing to take the risk of buying into an industry that is still in its infancy and holds great promise and benefits for the future. Also, the rules are a lot more flexible now which is evident from the contract that I signed.


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## travelguy (Jan 25, 2007)

*Congratulations*



Bourne said:


> After doing my due diligence, I am in the process of signing up as an affiliate member.



Bourne,

Congratulations on joining High Country Club.  I personally believe that you've made a good decision and it sounds like you've done extensive due diligence.  I believe that you'll like the properties and ease of reservation.  I'm currently in the High Country Club Snowmass ski property and was able to book this within the last 45 days.  So far I'm impressed with HCC.  I'm eager to see where their new properties are located.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 25, 2007)

Bourne said:


> Honestly, I don't want to 'seriously consider' buying a destination club membership 5 years from now when the minimum buy-in price is north of 150K-200K. I am willing to take the risk of buying into an industry that is still in its infancy and holds great promise and benefits for the future. Also, the rules are a lot more flexible now which is evident from the contract that I signed.



That is the same reasons I joined HCC...great price for us early adopters!


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## kylii (Jan 28, 2007)

*Current HCC Member*

I joined HCC in May 2006. I couldn't find any information in the TUG bulletin board then, so I did my own research (mostly thru the Helium Report) and decided to join. I am an Affiliate member and I paid $20,000 for my membership and I pay $350/mo ($4200/yr) for MF. 

I thought it would be helpful to share my reservation experience with HCC.

I booked the Playa Del Carmen property about 6 months out for the first week in April this year (spring break). About 90 days out I changed my mind and decided to do a ski week instead. I went on the reservation and site, cancelled the Playa reservation, and booked the Winter Park property. Just like that, with only one visit to the Web site. I NEVER could have done that with my Worldmark points. I was hanging on to my Worldmark points because HCC didn't have a Whistler property, yet. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get into Whistler this year so I'm now ready to sell my WM points. 

My only disappointment in the HCC reservation system is that currently the Colorado properties can only be booked on a Friday to Friday. That works fine if you live in Colorado and want to drive up to the mountains after work on Friday, but it doesn't work well if you have to fly in. I would like to see a system wide Saturday to Saturday check-in/out.

Just one more note for Perry. One of the reasons I decided to join HCC was at that time they were offering a 80% recoup at the CURRENT membership price. That means in March when the price goes up to $40,000 for my Affiliate membership my 80% recoup is this:

   $40,000 X .80 = $32,000

Of course, I am not interested in getting out anytime soon, but it is nice to 
know. 

HCC works for me because I have three kids and always want a kitchen and laundy facilities. Worldmark almost worked, but I didn't have the time to research locations, resort ratings, and try to snag holiday reservations that work with the kids school schedule. Now I can spend time trying to snag low airline ticket prices instead.

The most fun part of being a member has been getting on the Web site and seeing all of the locations that are added. When I joined there were several Colorado ski locations plus Hawaii, Cabo, and I think Playa Del Carmen also. It is fun to watch the club grow.


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## PerryM (Jan 28, 2007)

*Congratulations*

Kylii,

I’m glad you got on the 80% of Current membership fee when cancelling – it was not available when I started to investigate.  I believe I missed it by 2 weeks.  If it were available at the time I would have gladly taken the plunge.

I’m assuming that if HCC does well others will model after them and we will again look at a DC at that time.

I’m guessing but the new personal jets will probably be incorporated into DC’s in the future.  Link:  http://www.gizmag.com/go/3848/  They will cost about $1.5 M and carry 4 folks at a cost close to first class airfare but can take off and land at much smaller airports, and when you want to leave.  Another link: http://www.sport-jet.com/  This will open a flood gate of new folks who want high end vacationing at a budget price.  The hassle at the major airports on commercial aircraft will only get worse and worse over the years.

http://www.maverickjets.com/index.php to drool over.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 28, 2007)

kylii said:


> My only disappointment in the HCC reservation system is that currently the Colorado properties can only be booked on a Friday to Friday. That works fine if you live in Colorado and want to drive up to the mountains after work on Friday, but it doesn't work well if you have to fly in. I would like to see a system wide Saturday to Saturday check-in/out.
> 
> Just one more note for Perry. One of the reasons I decided to join HCC was at that time they were offering a 80% recoup at the CURRENT membership price. That means in March when the price goes up to $40,000 for my Affiliate membership my 80% recoup is this:
> 
> $40,000 X .80 = $32,000



HCC will be changing the Colorado reservations to Saturday-Saturday just like the other properties. I think the change-over is in 2008.

BTW - You got a fantastic deal when you joined....I am jealouse. But at least I got a good deal and after the price increase in march 2007, I will be happy I joined in December 2006.

It amazes me that they have already hit the 200 member mark.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 28, 2007)

PerryM said:


> I’m guessing but the new personal jets will probably be incorporated into DC’s in the future.  Link:  http://www.gizmag.com/go/3848/  They will cost about $1.5 M and carry 4 folks at a cost close to first class airfare but can take off and land at much smaller airports, and when you want to leave.  Another link: http://www.sport-jet.com/  This will open a flood gate of new folks who want high end vacationing at a budget price.  The hassle at the major airports on commercial aircraft will only get worse and worse over the years.
> 
> http://www.maverickjets.com/index.php to drool over.



I agree that this will be a trend soon.

BTW - I see PerryM updated his photo....how was the snow in Utah?


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## lostinjapan14 (Jan 28, 2007)

You have all completely sold me on this idea of joining HCC.  Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy in until I sell off some things.   

Do you have to pay for your membership in cash?  Also, will you still at least be able to get 80% of your original membership cost back (as opposed to the current membership cost back).

Maybe I should call and see what the current offer is.


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 28, 2007)

lostinjapan14 said:


> You have all completely sold me on this idea of joining HCC.  Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy in until I sell off some things.
> 
> Do you have to pay for your membership in cash?  Also, will you still at least be able to get 80% of your original membership cost back (as opposed to the current membership cost back).
> 
> Maybe I should call and see what the current offer is.



I hope you join HCC because the more members that join, the more properties that will be added.

I know HCC is VERY flexible in how you pay. I was able to join and freeze my mebership for one year. I did pay the membership fee in full, but froze my MF and usage. I would call Heath to ask about your payment options.

Yes, the 80% of your buy-in price will be refunded if you want out. The lucky first 50 people that joined get 80% of the CURRENT price refunded. Thus, they are already into the PROFIT zone. This opprotunity no longer exists, but I still think the club offers a great benefit to cost ratio.


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## travelguy (Jan 29, 2007)

*HCC Colorado property Saturday Check-in*



kylii said:


> My only disappointment in the HCC reservation system is that currently the Colorado properties can only be booked on a Friday to Friday. That works fine if you live in Colorado and want to drive up to the mountains after work on Friday, but it doesn't work well if you have to fly in. I would like to see a system wide Saturday to Saturday check-in/out.




Bill is correct.  High Country Club is changing the check-in/out days in the Colorado properties from Friday to Saturday based upon input from members!  Once again I’m impressed on how quickly these guys act to make the High Country Club experience better.

Here’s the official quote from Heath at HCC:

“We are actively working with our web designers to get that change where ALL reservation will be from Saturday – Saturday, hopefully it will happen soon”


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 30, 2007)

Here is a copy of the latest HCC press release:

Join High Country Club today and save over $10,000 on our Affiliate Membership!

On March 1, 2007, High Country Club's Affiliate Membership Fee will increase from $30,000 to $40,000. Annual dues will increase from $4,800 to $5,400. Members have the opportunity to recoup 80% of their Membership Fee subject to Club rules and regulations. 

Over the past year, High Country Club's membership has grown to over 200 members and 25 luxurious properties in some of the world's most desirable destinations.

Whether it's booking flights, reserving a deep-sea fishing trip, coordinating wine tours or confirming tee times, your High Country Club Concierge will assist you every step of the way.

Please visit our website at www.highcountryclub.com or contact a High Country Club representative for more information at 303-991-2300.


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## hunkyleebo (Jan 31, 2007)

*Destination Clubs*

I reviewed the HCC website and the printed materials they sent me.  It looks like a good alternative to high end timeshares.

I've been wondering why someone couldn't do something similar with timeshare weeks instead of resort houses/condos?  If you could create a pool of timeshare weeks, club members could pick from the available weeks instead of having to try and play the trading games.

Instead of a large initiation fee (like HCC) folks with existing timeshares could transfer their existing timeshare deeds to the club.  You'd have to find a way to resolve the variations in value between weeks and find a way to rent out the unused weeks.  

Lee


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## Steamboat Bill (Jan 31, 2007)

As an owner of DVC, Marriott, Westage Park City, and Whistler Delta Village Suites, I can tell you that the High Country Club memebrship is very reasonably priced.

Their initiation fee is LESS than a Marriott ski week or Hawaii week. Remember that you are buying HCC directly from the developer and are guaranteed 80% back when you sell. This is a small issue, if you plan on being a member for several years as the savings from each trip makes up for this.

Remember that these are $800k-$1m properties and you don't have to deal with II, etc.

Your idea sounds good, but is will result in people trying to "trade-up". In the timeshare world, there are winners (trade-upers) and losers (trade-downer or unused). In the HCC world, you will always get to stay in a nice unit.




hunkyleebo said:


> I reviewed the HCC website and the printed materials they sent me.  It looks like a good alternative to high end timeshares.
> 
> I've been wondering why someone couldn't do something similar with timeshare weeks instead of resort houses/condos?  If you could create a pool of timeshare weeks, club members could pick from the available weeks instead of having to try and play the trading games.
> 
> ...


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## lostinjapan14 (Jan 31, 2007)

*An idea regarding joining HCC*

For those of us who are tempted by Destination Club properties and value, but who still want to keep one foot in the timeshare industry or "try before you buy" I have a proposal.

Yes, the affiliate membership goes up 10k at the end of this month, but the group membership is staying fixed at $60k. 

Affiliate Membership  - $30k, 3 weeks of use, affiliate member MUST be present at the properties when using them.

Group Membership  - $60k, 6 weeks of use, guests may be appointed by the group = YOU don't have to be there, you can gift the week or allow someone else to stay there.

I cannot use 6 weeks by myself, so I am interested in hearing from anyone who would like to get a group membership with me. 

#mem / #wks each / $ each
2       /        3       /    30k
3       /        2       /    20k
6       /        1       /    10k

If one more person is interested, the buy in is 30k each and offers benifits above those of affiliate membership.  If 5 people want in with me, we each buy in for 10k, and can use or gift one week a year to get our feet wet.

Simple rules would apply - 
Consider the 6 member model - 

If one member wants out, another member can buy their week of time from them by giving them the 80% of 10k (=8k).  If we all want out one year after using, we have only lost 2k (20% lost) + 1.6k (yearly dues/6) = 3.6k each

And losing 3.6k seems like peanuts when you get to use a property for a week that would rent for more than 3.6k.  

The main issues of course are that with more than 3 members, rotating who gets the holiday weeks would be hard, but I will be first to step up and give up my holiday week or long-term reservations this year.  I can be flexible to get in for a price and number of weeks that makes sense for my family.

This is because the affiliate membership is a bit inconvenient for me as I am still young and working hard.  I cannot use 3 weeks and I really can't use 3 weeks by myself.  Although I believe that HCC is a great value, if I join as an affiliate and cannot give the week away, I will probably leave at least a week a year unused.  

Comments, ideas and private messages are welcome.


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## caribbeansun (Feb 1, 2007)

I have already done that with TS as well as a condo/hotel.  So far so good.  I'm also looking at HCC with my group to see if it makes sense to add to the portfolio so in answer to your question it can be done but you really need to know those that you are getting into "business" with.



hunkyleebo said:


> I reviewed the HCC website and the printed materials they sent me.  It looks like a good alternative to high end timeshares.
> 
> I've been wondering why someone couldn't do something similar with timeshare weeks instead of resort houses/condos?  If you could create a pool of timeshare weeks, club members could pick from the available weeks instead of having to try and play the trading games.
> 
> ...


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## Steamboat Bill (Feb 1, 2007)

lostinjapan14 said:


> Comments, ideas and private messages are welcome.



I like your idea, but think this may result in a disaster as you have proposed. 

I think the better way to do this is to have "one boss" or "one owner" and then have splinter employees or friends. That way, there is only one person on the deed as the owner. Anything involving strangers on the Internet and with travel and money has too many risks for me to reccommend. I am also not aware if this is even allowed under HCC rules. 

The schedule will be a challenge to work out as holiday weeks and long term reservations will be a challenge. I wouls also caution anyone that HCC does NOT allow rental of your reservations.

I still firmly reccomend joining HCC at the current Affiliate or Private membership before March 1, 2007.


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## travelguy (Feb 1, 2007)

*I'm with Bill on this!*



Steamboat Bill said:


> I like your idea, but think this may result in a disaster as you have proposed.
> 
> I think the better way to do this is to have "one boss" or "one owner" and then have splinter employees or friends. That way, there is only one person on the deed as the owner. Anything involving strangers on the Internet and with travel and money has too many risks for me to reccommend. I am also not aware if this is even allowed under HCC rules.
> 
> ...



I agree with Bill that this arrangement will be tough to administer.  Remember that one of the great things about High Country Club is the ability to manage your reservations with ease and the great availability of properties.  You may be better to contact Heath Kirschner @ High Country Club (720) 221-0416 and ask him if he has any ideas to help you get to your vacation property planning goals for now and the future.  HCC has been very flexible with their membership plans in the past.  Otherwise, High country Club Affiliate membership before the price increase is the way to go.


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## Bourne (Nov 20, 2007)

Bourne said:


> After doing my due diligence, I am in the process of signing up as an affiliate member.
> 
> Here is the reason why we are buying a HCC membership.
> 
> ...



Glad I joined. Where is that second bedroom.


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