# Recommendation: LCD size for bedroom



## JeffW (Nov 19, 2007)

Currently in a ~ 12' x 14' bedroom, I have a 27" tube tv.  I'm thinking distance from our eyes (in bed) to the front of the tube is around 10'.

I'm looking to replace with an HD screen, but am having problems deciding on a 32" or a 37".  A standard def 4x3 image on a 32" HD (16x9) screen is about the same size as what I have now with a 27" tube, so I definitely don't want to go smaller.  The question is should I go with a larger 37" unit.

- a 32" unit has the advantage of cost, probably at least 25% cheaper than what a comparable 37" would cost.  I'm also sure it wouldn't overwhelm the room, which a 37" may.
- I read often than people's biggest complaint is that they didn't get a larger set.  I know 42" is way too big, but 37" should be okay.

  My wife does watch a fair amount of tv up there, so I don't want to skimp.  We originally started with a 20" set, and upgraded to a 27" set about 5 years ago during a BF sale.

  Also, any recommedations on models?  I'm looking for a good set (don't want Vizio or Olivia, for example), and would prefer one with better than average SD display, since that's what will be broadcast for the next few years (will cable channels all ever go to HD).  I'm looking at Sharp Aquos, Sony 'S' series, and a Panasonic.

Thanks.

Jeff


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## Kal (Nov 19, 2007)

I did that same selection process a few years ago for the BR.  Right now the eyeball viewing distance to the 32" screen is 10 feet.  It works fine.  A larger screen would tend to dominate the room.  My feeling is a 37" screen would be overkill.

A few months ago I did the same analysis for a larger family room and went thru all the what-ifs.  In that selection I made cardboard posters of the 42", 46" and 52" screens.  It became very obvious what size would work best.  My selection was a 46" AQUOS Sharp and the size is perfect.  I really wouldn't want a bigger screen.  The set is fantastic and the image gorgeous.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 19, 2007)

We're having the same discussion at our house. 

I like the idea of a cardboard cutout.

Thanks


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## TUGBrian (Nov 19, 2007)

big price break between 32 and 37+

I was quite pleased with the 32 I purchased..."appears" much bigger as this set has the speakers on the left and right sides.

I think I paid around 400 dollars for it at circuit city on one of their sales.  Its an olevia.


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## silvib (Nov 19, 2007)

Try looking at Samsung.  Apart from our main viewing Samsung tv (52" DLP)we have a 20" LCD Samsung in another area & in my office I have an Olevia 20" LCD.  We had always been Sony fans but Samsung is a strong competitor.
We've bought things on line through www.tech4less.com - their prices are good.


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## Bucky (Nov 19, 2007)

We have the Samsung 32" LCD in our BR.  Great picture.  Anything larger would be overkill in my opinion.


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## pcgirl54 (Nov 20, 2007)

We are researching the same thing. LCD we were told Sharp Aquos and Plasma Panasonic or the pricey but really nice Pioneer Elite Pro for the dual non glare screen and the darkness factor.

Good idea Kal on the cutout as the size in a store can be deceiving.  We have the old 27" in the bedroom and a newer 36" in the living room. Both are not the nice streamlined models one can buy now.


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## Kal (Nov 20, 2007)

It becomes a real challenge when you compare models in the showroom because those guys have all sorts of tricks. Side-by-side comparison is the best approach. 

Screen Glare: Placement of the set in the showroom is critical especially for those designs with a reflective screen. The area background is often dark and they point the set to minimize that defective design. You don't realize the problem until you get the set in home and see yourself and the entire surroundings reflected on the screen.

Display Content: They turn up the display settings to a point never used in the home and the canned visual content they use in the demonstration has a high definition 1080p resolution. Most users do not even have material (HDTV broadcast input or DVDs) which provide 1080p content. HDTV broadcast is 720p, non-HD TV channels are 480i while standard DVDs are 720p. So when you use the set in the home, you are disappointed.


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## JeffW (Nov 20, 2007)

The Display Content point Kal made is so true.  Unless you buy a real low-end set, I think almost any set will provide a pretty good HD picture, especially for those just getting into it.

What I'm trying to use as a critical factor is how the set displays standard definition (SD) programming.  While there is a lot of programming in HD, and it will continue to expand, I'm not sure in the near future anyone is predicting that there will be an HD broadcast of every HD channel.   While the major networks, TBS/TNT, ESPN, Discovery, etc are in HD, MSNBC, Lifetime, Speed, VH1, etc will still be in SD.  I reallly don't want those channels to look noticeably worse on an HD set.

When I was at Sears last night evaluating units, I brought my mini-DV camcorder, plugged it into all the sets I was looking at, trying to see how well they displayed an SD signal.  Conveniently they also had a Sony 32" Wega SD tv, which I could use as a reference for how SD programming should look.
Unfortunately the picture wasn't as clean as I would have liked (it was footage of my recent Hawaii trip, maybe grainy because of less than ideal light).  I'm going back tonight with a portable DVD player and an Avia Home Theatre setup DVD.  Between it being a low-end player, and only using the composite video output, I'm hoping it's a good similuation of a SD broadcast over digital cable.  
There's a big difference in price(I think I can get a 32" Sharp Aquos for about $560, vs $850 for a highly rated Sony S3000).  If the Sony is noticeably better, I won't mind spending the money.  If I don't see a big difference, then I'll be glad I'll be able to save a few hundred dollars.

Also, '720p' or '1080i' aren't absolute values.  Comcast cable and Verizon FIOS are capable of both formats (I don't think anything is 1080p other than disc), yet the Verizon picture is supposedly noticeably better, because they don't compress the signal as much.  Even Comcast SD on digital cable isn't the greatest, as during any fast moving scene (often sports), your'll see pixelation or blocking.  I'd definitely consider FIOS when it becomes available in my area.

Jeff


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## Kal (Nov 20, 2007)

Jeff - That's an excellent idea to bring your content to the showroom and plug it in.  Unfortunately, the LCD machines have an incredible array of settings which will impact the display.  At first I was not satisfied with the standard definition image, but after tweeking the settings the SD image is very, very good (even with a 46" screen).


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## JeffW (Nov 20, 2007)

Yeah, that's a concern.  Setting changes can probably make a bad picture good, or a good picture bad.   http://www.avsforum.com has a wealth of postings on sets (many on recommended settings for specific models).   There's not enough time to do this in the store, and even if there was, unless your viewing area at home is similar to a large store, it wouldn't be too applicable.  

I hate to buy something like this just from reviews.  To some degree, how the set is in your home is hit or miss.  I'm just trying to do some research before I buy, so I can have some feeling that I tried to select a good set.  

(Obviously this all flies in the face of people who on BF (and other days), will just buy any set, because either it has the right price, or perhaps, the only one they could get their hands on).

Jeff


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## Kal (Nov 20, 2007)

*Fast Moving Scenes*

Jeff - The important design specification involves "refresh rate", "processor speed" and definitely "frame-rate conversion". This is a very new design feature as it eliminates blurring for fast moving scenes, especially sporting events such as auto racing etc. Refresh rates of 4 ms are good, but there's no measurement standard. When a manufacturer says the rate is 8 ms, you can believe it's NO BETTER than 8. When they say it's 4 ms, it probably depends on their measurement technique. In any case I would go for the lowest number.

Most sets have a 60hz processor but the best is 120hz. Some of the new AQUOS have the 120hz frame rate conversion, but I'm not sure if that's available in the smaller 32" sets.

The avsforum website is an excellent resource, but it takes days to wade thru all the pages and pages of review comments. It's particular interesting on the "settings and tweeks" threads as you get a vast difference in numbers. The one thing that becomes apparent is the interplay between each individual setting on image quality. Then add in the compression between SD channels and the frustration levels increase.

Another design feature is black background quality. It seems to be common opinion that Sharp AQUOS has the best LCD blacks in the industry. Over the last few years they have put a huge effort into colors.

Needless to say, don't ignore the size of the built-in speakers. To me this is marginally important, but I've seen sets with 5w speakers and they really are poor.

Are you trying to buy on BF? If so, make sure you do solid research on internet pricing. Shipping is not a problem as there are new safeguards applicable to delicate LCDs that will give you added comfort that the set has not been harmed during shipment.


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## Keitht (Nov 20, 2007)

Bill4728 said:


> We're having the same discussion at our house.
> 
> I like the idea of a cardboard cutout.
> 
> Thanks




Agreed.  So much cheaper than the real thing


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## TomCayman (Nov 20, 2007)

I'm about to build a house, and the master bedroom has the bed in the center of the room angled to a corner for the view...so want to put a flat tv in a chest at the foot of the bed that can come up on a lift when needed.

Now, viewing distance therefore only ~6', and don't want the furniture piece that the TV is hidden in to dominate, so what do you folks think, would a 27" flat screen be enough ?


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## Kal (Nov 20, 2007)

I would still get a 32" LCD.  There are some major differences in specs between the 27" and 32".  Make sure you get a resolution of 1080p.


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## JeffW (Nov 20, 2007)

The only BF shopping I'll be doing is either online, or maybe after 10am.  I've been to BF sales years ago, when you could get to a store ~2hrs before it opened, and have a chance of getting what you wanted.  I've read that last year, people were lining up Thurs afternoon!  I'm too old for that!

There are a number of sets with some pretty good prices thru Wed, so I'm hoping to buy something by then.  As long as I have something at a decent price (and I'd like to get some savings), if the price goes down later, I can get a price adjustment.  I'd hate to wait until 2 weeks before Christmas, and realize the prices are not as good.

I'm still undecided on a 32" or 37".  The 32's are on sale this week, so I'll definitely buy one.  If I see a good price on a 37" before Christmas, I'll buy one of them too, and then decide at Christmas which one I want to keep.  For the units I'm looking at ($600-$900), I don't think there's that much to be saved by going mailorder.  Buying at a local store (BB, CC, Sears), and knowing I can drive it back and return it for no cost (won't be opened, so no restocking fee) is flexibility I like.

Jeff


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## JeffW (Nov 20, 2007)

Kal said:


> I would still get a 32" LCD.  There are some major differences in specs between the 27" and 32"...



It seems like 42" and 32" and pseudo-industry standard sizes.  There are 37" units, but from what I've seen far, they'll run close to what you can get a decent 42" unit for.  Similarly, you might pay as much for a 26" unit (or smaller) as you can pay for a 32" one.  

Jeff


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## TUGBrian (Nov 20, 2007)

not sure id waste the extra cash on a 1080p set for your bedroom....nothing is broadcast in 1080p...and the only 1080p movie source is blue-ray.

everything else is 720p or 1080i


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## Kal (Nov 20, 2007)

Think to the future for screen resolution.  You really don't want to be caught in the "technology black hole" a few years out.  Agree, 1080p might be more spendy so go for a 1080i.


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## JeffW (Nov 20, 2007)

Kal said:


> ...caught in the "technology black hole" a few years out...



I'm not sure I agree with that.  Especially with electronics, it can be difficult to justify spending extra money now to futureproof an item for serveral years out.  
I might be able to get a 1080i set for $700 now, with a comparable 1080p one for probably over $1k.  If the only reason I'm spending that money is to be prepared in say 2yrs, who's to say I wouldn't be better saving that money now, and using it to buy a new set in 2 years.  The way sets are advancing it probably will be 1080p (or higher), and may not be more than $300.  Even if it's $500, who wouldn't mind 'upgrading' to a new set in 2yrs for only $200.

It's tough (mentally) to buy electronics, because it seems like they depreciate SO quickly.  

Jeff


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## Kal (Nov 20, 2007)

For a third tier TV (i.e. BR) you probably won't want to do any replacement for quite some time. A different story for a primary TV where that one could be replaced much sooner. Then, what do you do with the TV to be replaced when it works fine?

I've got 4 sets (Family Room, Kitchen, Master BR, & office). Each one has unique geometry constraints so the upgrade and move the old set to a different room no longer works. The only non-HDTV is in the office so that's my new target.

Right now I hate to open the service provider bills - Internet, website, cell phones, cable (digital + HD + premium + boxes + TIVO) and VOIP phone. It won't be long before they give away TVs for free just to get you hooked on the monthly services.


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## TUGBrian (Nov 20, 2007)

not to mention in 3 years time...1080p might even be the bottom of the barrel...and I can promise you the 1500 dollar top of the line 1080p set will be half that price or less in 3 years =)


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## Kal (Nov 20, 2007)

TUG Improvements! said:


> ...and I can promise you the 1500 dollar top of the line 1080p set will be half that price or less in 3 years =)


 
The other half of the promise is what? You provide the 1080p gratis (to moi) if it's not half the price?  We need to set the baseline price and size of set so I can start my 3-year clock.   I'm thinking the set should be a 32" at a price of $500.


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## pwrshift (Nov 20, 2007)

I was at the  dentist today for a filling ... and he has  installed flat TV's flat on the ceiling above you so you can easily watch it instead of worrying about the hurt of the needle.

Maybe that's the best place for a bedroom TV too.

I had a 25" 4:3 CRT before and wanted one the same height and felt the 32" widescreen was about what I needed.  However, I have a 40 ft bedroom and moved the bed to another location and now the TV is too small.  So perhaps in the bedroom bigger is better?  Or maybe I should move it to the ceiling like the dentist.

Brian


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## Kal (Nov 20, 2007)

You may have to move the mirror.


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## merc (Nov 21, 2007)

TVs also differ in the ways they allow you to manipulate the standard 4:3 ratio picture.  Cheaper/older models may not give you the widescreen options that won't seem quite distorted.  You want "stretching" options in your tv's "brain" that keep the middle of the picture less distorted, and rather widen/crop the edges proportionally.  This can make a really big difference in what size tv you might want if you are watching significant amounts of nonHD regular tv.   I think most people want a widescreen format, even for 4:3 broadcasts.   I just got a Toshiba 37HL57 for around $700 that is extremely sleek in its dimensions, and has a great picture from all angles, with numerous pictureview options.


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## pwrshift (Nov 22, 2007)

I like to see widescreen home movies of me in 4:3 format as it looks like I've lost a lot of weight! 

Brian


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## caribbeansun (Nov 23, 2007)

Why not mount a larger flat screen on the wall with an articulating arm - that way it doesn't get in the way of the view when not in use and you don't have to concern yourself with running wires (cable and power) up through the floor to the furniture piece you want to hide the screen in.  You can pre-wire into the wall so none of it's visible.  Heck you can even pre-wire to run HDMI cables from another room with a DVD player in it if you wanted to.



TomCayman said:


> I'm about to build a house, and the master bedroom has the bed in the center of the room angled to a corner for the view...so want to put a flat tv in a chest at the foot of the bed that can come up on a lift when needed.
> 
> Now, viewing distance therefore only ~6', and don't want the furniture piece that the TV is hidden in to dominate, so what do you folks think, would a 27" flat screen be enough ?


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## Kal (Nov 23, 2007)

Talk about giving HDTVs away....

I walked thru Fry's at 7:00am on BF and there must have been 500 people already in the check-out line and almost every one of them had an HDTV. Some people had three. Turns out the prices were like this:

* 32" LCD HDTV (brand unknown) $377
* 50" Samsung Plasma $897 (12 months no interest)

Of course it would probably take at least 2 hours just to get thru the line. What a zoo.


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## arlene22 (Nov 24, 2007)

They are doing it already. We are getting FIOS installed on Monday. They are giving us a free Sharp 19" LCD HDTV.


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## pcgirl54 (Nov 24, 2007)

Went back to Best Buy and Sears. Shopping for a car is easier than deciding on HDTV's. Had the Sears salesman switch the Panasonic  Z700U screen playing a BluRay movie to SD signal then HD 720P then 1080P. Incredible difference the SD signal was so grainy on the top rated Panasonic Plasma no matter the size or the store we went to. If that was our major signal I wouldn't even want a HD set anymore.

LCD Sharp Aquos blew the Plasma away for brightness. There was a green deficit on that Plasma model just as the CNEt reviews said. I read it after I saw it.

Sears salesperson told us the 1080P is for Bluray only(not true per CNET). 

Samsung pic was much better too.

Pioneer Elite Pro is the best pic plasma but runs 2399-2799 for 42/50 inch 1080p.
Even my IT techie spouse is confused after browsing today. He has a hard time thinking about spending $1500-$2300 for a TV and so do I but we use it as much as our computers and that's what they cost. I think we have been talking about this for three years.


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## Kal (Nov 24, 2007)

pcgirl - Did you notice the reflection on the plasma screens?  For me, it becomes a real deal killer when you view it at home in a lighted room.  The non-glare LCD screen has no reflection.

When I first installed my Sharp AQUOS LCD the SD signal wasn't to my satisfaction.  After I tweaked the adjustments it's now very, very nice.

It sounds like you're doing some good homework, especially getting the sales guy to change the input.


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## caribbeansun (Nov 25, 2007)

I bought an NEC 50XR5 a year ago that had a big price tag on it (compared to prices today) but man what a beautiful picture!  Looked at the Panny Elites but found the NEC's picture to be superior.  I don't notice much in the way of glare/reflection on the screen.


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## JeffW (Nov 25, 2007)

An update - right now I bought a Sony KDL-32S3000, $850 at BJ's (missed the $850 sale price at Costco).  It seems a solid set, no obvious flaws.  A little more money than what I could have paid for some other 32's, but as my father said, in a year or two (or five), will you be happier with the better set, or one you saved some money on.

I still might get a 37" unit, but I didn't see any significant sales on ones I was interested in to buy one during BF.  I'll keep an eye out over the next few weeks if another pops up, but I'm sure I'll be content with the Sony 32" if nother else comes along.

Jeff


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## Kal (Nov 25, 2007)

How does the 32" screen look in the bedroom?  Do you have second thoughts on wishing you had the 37" screen?  As we know, the most common complaint from buyers is not getting the larger model.

Did you check out the *Binford Model 9000XL Supremo* (which of course is a Man's LCD)?


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## JeffW (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm waiting until Christmas to surprise my wife with it.  My brother bought the same model for his family room (about the same size as our bedroom), which my wife will see when we go there Christmas day.  Between that set, and the 40" my parents bought (both already setup), I'm hoping I might be able to get one of their boxes, and create mockups that show the size a 32" and 37" unit.  
I know if I had bought it at Costco, I could set it up, and returned it open if I thought it was too small.  I'll have to check the return policy at BJ's.

Jeff


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## pcgirl54 (Nov 25, 2007)

Kal
Panasonic Z 700 and the pricey Pioneer Elite at 2400-2800 were non glare . Of course being in the home makes all the difference. Our living room has 5 windows as does the masterbedroom. We have been looking at 32" to 42" sets.

Boy this is hard work. I never researched this much for a CRT TV but really glad to have all your input.

Cyber Monday is suppossed to be as big a deal as BF.


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## Kal (Dec 31, 2007)

*JeffW - Need Update*



JeffW said:


> I'm waiting until Christmas to surprise my wife with it. My brother bought the same model for his family room (about the same size as our bedroom), which my wife will see when we go there Christmas day. Between that set, and the 40" my parents bought (both already setup), I'm hoping I might be able to get one of their boxes, and create mockups that show the size a 32" and 37" unit.
> I know if I had bought it at Costco, I could set it up, and returned it open if I thought it was too small. I'll have to check the return policy at BJ's.
> 
> Jeff


 
Jeff - What's the report on the Christmas HDTV?


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## JeffW (Jan 6, 2008)

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread.  

It went great!

We went over my parents Christmas day (where I had left the tv's wrapped).  I had helped my parents get a Sony 40" LCD unit Black Friday, which they had setup that weekend.  My wife hadn't been over there since then.  
When she walked in, she saw the tv, and told my mom, "That's a really nice picture!"  Then she said to me, "Jeff, we'll need to start looking for one."  I just winked at my mom, knowing she'd be very happy with the tv.  Even when I brought it out into the living room (wrapped), she didn't seem to know what the box was until she unwrapped it, at which point she was very happy.

Installation was also great.  I thought I'd have to do a lot of rearranging of the video equipment to get the 32" Sony to fit, but actually it fit fine.  It also looks a lot nicer, since the flatscreen takes up much less bulk than our old 27" tube set.  Plus, our furniture is teak, so it's nice to see part of the top of it again.

The 32" size turned out to be optimal.  While the screen is wider than our old 27" SD tube set, the vertical height is about 1" shorter.  However, after having it setup, my wife agreed that we really couldn't go any bigger, and she's happy we didn't have to go with a wall mount to get even this size set installed.  

I'm also very happy with 'my' set, a Sony 26" LCD that I have in my computer room.  It's definitely bigger than the 20" Sony tube I had there before, but I don't think it's too big.  Both the 26" and the 32" units are from the same line (KDL-xxS3000), so the the look, hookups, remote are all identical (even the manuals are identical).  Having the two sets basically be the same is a real plus.  
Plus, I got a Christmas-Eve bonus with this set.  I had bought the unit at Sears (original list - $849), but after an initial price match and rebate, it would have been about $715 before taxes.  However, on ChrEve, I read the Sears ad.  The price was dropped to $699, with another $105 discount when I ordered it online.  After rebate, it's effective price dropped to about $535, a very nice $180 savings.  Although I probably would have gotten this set anyway, I'm glad I got it at a $5xx price, since it's original $849 price was what I paid for the 32" unit.  I wasn't happy about that prospect.

So all in all, a very good Christmas.  Thanks to everyone who provided advice and recommendations.

Jeff


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