# Fees for DVC exchanges



## ronandjoan (Aug 15, 2007)

The Interval website says the following for Disney resorts.  What does it mean?  Amt?
"A resort services fee is required prior to check-in."

Thanks


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## Dave M (Aug 15, 2007)

The fee is $95 for the week. No discount if you plan to stay less than a full week.

Don't expect anything additional for the fee. That's what it costs to stay there!


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## tashamen (Aug 15, 2007)

Here's the wording from the confirmation:

"A pre-paid, non-refundable USD 95 resort services fee, per unit is required. This fee covers the use of DVC Member Services for making advance dining reservations, golf tee times and other vacation planning. For PAYMENT and inquires about other Disney programs, such as Disney’s Dining Plan and the Magical Express airport transportation service,which must be reserved prior to arrival, call 800-800-9800 or 407-566-3800 and select option 3 for Member Services.

PAYMENT OF RESORT SERVICES FEE MUST BE RECEIVED NO LESS THAN 72 HOURS PRIOR TO THE UNIT’S SCHEDULED CHECK-IN DATE."


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## KauaiMark (Aug 15, 2007)

*Transportation fee...*

That $95 fee used to be called a "transportation fee" to use their bus/boat  system between the resort and the parks. 

Noone ever checked who was getting on/off the buses so it was actually a fee for a "free included services" and it was charged even if you had your own transportation.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 15, 2007)

If you have your own car, parking will be free.  All you have to do is show your parking pass.    I don't know how much it costs to park these days but 7 days used to save $70 in parking fees for the week.

We liked taking the boat from Old Key West to Downtown Disney.  No parking hassles and we enjoyed dinner at Captain Jack's.


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## KevGuy (Aug 15, 2007)

It is $10-15 a day to park. But check with AAA if your a member they have a diamond parking card or something along those lines that can get you up close to the beginning of the parking lots.


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## ronandjoan (Aug 15, 2007)

WOW! thanks everyone!


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## timeos2 (Aug 15, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> If you have your own car, parking will be free.  All you have to do is show your parking pass.    I don't know how much it costs to park these days but 7 days used to save $70 in parking fees for the week.
> 
> We liked taking the boat from Old Key West to Downtown Disney.  No parking hassles and we enjoyed dinner at Captain Jack's.



Not from the bogus $95 fee.  That does not cover parking nor does it cover transportation which is given to anyone that has a Disney ticket (they usually don't even check to see if you have any) - even an expired one.  Why anyone would want to deal with the slow, time consuming (read wasting park time you pay dearly for)  transportation system is beyond me.  It is one of the better things about Universal that they built the parking garages close to the parks and you can easily walk in quickly.  The Disney system, while quite an accomplishment, is space wasting (all that spread out paved parking area) and frustratingly slow.  Plus you have to deal in most cases with changing from a tram to another type of transport - all time they are keeping you out of the parks which appears to be the real goal of the unnecessarily convoluted system.   It is OK at the parks themselves but the trams and buses are a nightmare.

But back to the $95 exchange penalty. Thats all it is and it is a bogus as they come.


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## rhonda (Aug 16, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Why anyone would want to deal with the slow, time consuming (read wasting park time you pay dearly for)  transportation system is beyond me.


As it turns out, we've come to love the transportation system starting with Magical Express providing ground transfers between the airport and resort.  Not having a rental car is fine with me -- and made even better with airline check-in conducted right at the resort.  Well worth the fee to me.


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## myip (Aug 16, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> But back to the $95 exchange penalty. Thats all it is and it is a bogus as they come.



I don't know whether exchanger should pay $95.00 but I love the Disney Transportation.  I like the buses and boat ride.  I don't need to worry about parking and going from the car to the entry of the park.  It is so easy to take a bus and magic express.  I don't need to wait for my luggage at the airport (save  at least 30 minutes).  I never need to wait more than 10 minutes for a bus.


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## spookykennedy (Aug 16, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> It is one of the better things about Universal that they built the parking garages close to the parks and you can easily walk in quickly.




We do not find the Universal parking to be convenient _at all_.  We couldn't believe how long the walk was!  I am not a huge fan of Disney's parking/tram system, but we generally have no issues with the buses.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 16, 2007)

John, parking is included.  Our resort parking pass gets us in FREE.  What other resort in the Disney area provides free parking in the parks?  NONE!  So I consider the $95 an okay value.


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## timeos2 (Aug 16, 2007)

*Disney. Profits up? Good. Raise the prices!*



rickandcindy23 said:


> John, parking is included.  Our resort parking pass gets us in FREE.  What other resort in the Disney area provides free parking in the parks?  NONE!  So I consider the $95 an okay value.



Cindy - The $95 would be a deal if that's what it was getting you. But it's not. The parking pass, like the transportation, is in the package for the resort - paid for by the RTU fees just like you pay for the water at your home resort. Does your home resort charge exchange guests a $45/week water fee?  Or a $95 parking fee? Of course not, that would fly in the face of the very idea of exchange. 

The $95 is greed pure and simple. It gets you nothing that you didn't already have coming as part of the trade.  RCI of the 90's (today they would probably add it themselves!) recognized that and wouldn't allow DVC to tack it on. Needless to say the name dropping II was more than happy to break their own rules and let DVC charge it.


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## Carl D (Aug 16, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Cindy - The $95 would be a deal if that's what it was getting you. But it's not. The parking pass, like the transportation, is in the package for the resort - paid for by the RTU fees just like you pay for the water at your home resort.


Wrong. There is no provision in the DVC budget for parking.
Free parking is a *perk*.


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## timeos2 (Aug 16, 2007)

Carl D said:


> Wrong. There is no provision in the DVC budget for parking.
> Free parking is a *perk*.



But its a perk that comes with the resort stay - nothing to do with the $95 penalty fee. Not even Disney is petty enough to charge their own resorts for parking. (Or maybe they just haven't thought of it yet - now that you brought it up you may see it next budget!)

The poorly planned parking situation leads to these crazy results.  They planned the parking booths to charge everyone that drives through then they built features behind those booths that need to offer free parking (resorts, restaurants, etc).  So they have to hand out passes which are good at any entrance as the old honor system broke down a decade ago.  

Of course anyone that wants to beat the whole system just parks at Downtown Disney and uses the free transportation to get where they want to go on site. If it wasn't so slow it would be a good plan. Usually it's not worth the long wait and round about routes the buses take and then you have to change to a monorail or boat or  something else to kill even more time.  Even worse than just driving in, paying the fee and only dealing with two or three different queues into packed quarters.  

Best of all you can skip it all and enjoy the magic of open spaces, free access and reasonable prices. In other words you stay away from Di$ney.  Thats the magic we really enjoy.


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## Carl D (Aug 16, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> But its a perk that comes with the resort stay


But a perk can be given to whoever they want. They choose to give it to guests that actually give money to stay at a Disney Resort.


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## sandcastles (Aug 16, 2007)

Neither Disney nor II is forcing anyone to trade into Disney and thus pay the $95 fee.  It seems like a lot of people want to.  Including me.  I own DVC but I also trade into it twice a year, paying the $95.

And I am sure you are going to say again that anyone trading out of DVC should have to pay a $95 fee also.  That would be fine with me because I will never trade my DVC.


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## Carl D (Aug 16, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> The poorly planned parking situation leads to these crazy results.  They planned the parking booths to charge everyone that drives through then they built features behind those booths that need to offer free parking (resorts, restaurants, etc).  So they have to hand out passes which are good at any entrance as the old honor system broke down a decade ago.


I don't think it's quite so simple. The toll attendant will wave you through, but you need a specific parking pass from the resort you are visiting. These have a time limit, and are not good at any other gate.


> Of course anyone that wants to beat the whole system just parks at Downtown Disney and uses the free transportation to get where they want to go on site. If it wasn't so slow it would be a good plan. Usually it's not worth the long wait and round about routes the buses take and then you have to change to a monorail or boat or  something else to kill even more time.


True. Years ago the busses ran from Downtown directly to the parks. They stoped that practice for the reason you described.  


> Best of all you can skip it all and enjoy the magic of open spaces, free access and reasonable prices. In other words you stay away from Di$ney.  Thats the magic we really enjoy.


If that's what makes you happy while vacationing in Orlando, than go for it.
For others it may be well worth the addmission, parking, and resort costs to visit WDW.


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## ronandjoan (Aug 16, 2007)

sandcastles said:


> I own DVC but I also trade into it twice a year, paying the $95.
> 
> .



How and when do you exchange INTO DVC - when is best time?


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## SOS8260456 (Aug 16, 2007)

Kinda of funny that RCI would not let DVC add a $95 fee, when Smugglers Notch adds a significant fee (I think it is over $200) and I also think I have read recently where Summer Bay charges a $50 housekeeping fee.

If people want to stay at these places, then they will pay it.  I don't think it is right or fair, but it seems to be the way the industry is going.

I personally feel that it is worth paying the extra $95 to stay in rooms that Disney usually rents for one night at an amount close to an average timeshares maintenance fees.

Lisa


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## sandcastles (Aug 16, 2007)

ronandjoan said:


> How and when do you exchange INTO DVC - when is best time?



I have traded every month except June thru Sept. and that was by choice.  My next exchange is into a 1BR at OKW the last of Jan. 2008.  Jan. is a fairly easy trade as is a 1 BR at OKW or SSR.  I have also gotten 2 BR at both of these resorts.

It is harder to get anything but a studio at the other resorts but it can be done.


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## timeos2 (Aug 16, 2007)

*The idea of an exchange says you owe nothing*



SOS8260456 said:


> Kinda of funny that RCI would not let DVC add a $95 fee, when Smugglers Notch adds a significant fee (I think it is over $200) and I also think I have read recently where Summer Bay charges a $50 housekeeping fee.
> 
> If people want to stay at these places, then they will pay it.  I don't think it is right or fair, but it seems to be the way the industry is going.
> 
> ...



While I don't think any timeshare exchange should have a fee attached (the owner who gave it up already paid for the costs just as you do at your resort) but at least in the case of Smugglers Notch you get something for your money. DVC has never provided any service that wasn't already paid for by the long term renters whose time you are using.  

At Smugglers Notch, last time I checked, if you didn't want to use the features covered by the fee you could avoid it.  Not so with DVC and now Manhattan Club where you trade in you pay.  

It's not a problem - just don't go to those resorts. That only hurts the owners there as their trade value should be negatively impacted if enough people avoid them.  Actually it is one of many reasons the whole idea of trading timeshares now appears to be headed toward extinction as either owner use or rentals will be the primary method of occupancy within the next decade. II and RCI as week for week exchange companies are on borrowed time even now.


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## tashamen (Aug 17, 2007)

SOS8260456 said:


> I personally feel that it is worth paying the extra $95 a night to stay in rooms that Disney usually rents for one night at an amount close to an average timeshares maintenance fees.



That's how I look at it (though it's $95 for the week - not per night).  While I am not a Disney fan, I am going to stay onsite this fall specifically to go to the Epcot food & wine festival, and the Cirque du Soleil show (which we can walk to from DSS).  The total for my exchange for a week into the 1BR there cost me less than $500 (that includes my the portion of my MF associated with my deposited week, the II exchange fee, and the $95 fee).  If I had used an AC to trade in, which I actually snagged the DSS unit with initially, it would have cost even less - $249 plus Florida tax plus the $95.

So - while you don't have to pay the $95 fee if you stay in one of the onsite hotels, or rent at one of the ts directly from Disney, I doubt that you could stay for a 1BR for a week in any of those for the $400-$500 that exchanging in costs.


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## sandcastles (Aug 17, 2007)

Have they started charging Florida tax when using an accomodation certificate?  My last use of an A/C was 2 months ago for a week this coming Jan. and no tax was charged.


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## tashamen (Aug 17, 2007)

sandcastles said:


> Have they started charging Florida tax when using an accomodation certificate?  My last use of an A/C was 2 months ago for a week this coming Jan. and no tax was charged.



Yes, they now charge tax on ACs - that was news to me too.  I thought only Getaways were charged tax in the past.  The amount varies according to the location.


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## bnoble (Aug 17, 2007)

> all time they are keeping you out of the parks which appears to be the real goal of the unnecessarily convoluted system.



At least for Magic Kingdom, this is true.  Parking at the Transportation and Ticket Center, followed by the ferry or monorail ride, was designed to heighten anticipation, on purpose.


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## cindi (Aug 17, 2007)

bnoble said:


> At least for Magic Kingdom, this is true.  Parking at the Transportation and Ticket Center, followed by the ferry or monorail ride, was designed to heighten anticipation, on purpose.



And it works!


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## KevGuy (Aug 18, 2007)

timeos2 said:
			
		

> But back to the $95 exchange penalty. Thats all it is and it is a bogus as they come.



Ummm...I'm pretty sure it occurs on both sides of the fence ie:if I trade out of Disney to anywhere via II I also get charged a fee as a DVC member. It is a II fee, but I could be mistaken. Regardless of that fact keep in mind that Disney is the #1 resort destination in the world and more people go there every year than anywhere else including Universal. Seems to be a non-issue to me.


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## vacationlover2 (Aug 18, 2007)

KevGuy,

That $95 fee has nothing whatsoever to do with II, or they would accept payment for it.  You pay the $95 to Disney at check in.


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## barndweller (Aug 18, 2007)

There are plenty of places where an exchanger pays extra fees. Some timeshares in Europe charge for electricity. Many charge for daily parking. Some charge for internet access. Hawaii charges extra taxes. None of the ones I own charge extra for anything. All that stuff is built into my MF and I pay for them, not the exchanger that gets my week.

Ideally, all timeshares would be set up the same way. But they are not so if I chose to exchange to one of the "extra fee" places I get charged twice. 

As for the Disney fee...I just figure it's cheaper than renting a car & paying for parking everyday, and easier than schlepping back & forth from offsite. I love being able to check my luggage at SFO and get pick-up at the airport in Orlando & have my luggage delivered to my room. Heck, the Disney boats & buses are at least a C-ticket ride as far as I'm concerned. It's worth $95 to me so I choose to exchange into DVC.


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## KevGuy (Aug 21, 2007)

vacationlover2 said:
			
		

> That $95 fee has nothing whatsoever to do with II, or they would accept payment for it. You pay the $95 to Disney at check in.



Then why would DVC people trading out pay it too? Any Mariott resort I trade to for instance via II isn't giving me transfers to or from the airport?? I still think it is an II fee on both sides of the fence, maybe they split the fee with Disney.


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## timeos2 (Aug 21, 2007)

KevGuy said:


> Then why would DVC people trading out pay it too? Any Mariott resort I trade to for instance via II isn't giving me transfers to or from the airport?? I still think it is an II fee on both sides of the fence, maybe they split the fee with Disney.



DVC people trading out to other resorts don't pay it. They should as long as DVC is charging it but thats another story.  II isn't getting one cent of the fee - it's all pure profit for Di$ney.  Both "regular" II members and DVC members DO pay the II exchange fee - maybe thats whats confusing you. But only incoming exchanges pay the DVC penalty charge on top of the exchange fee (thanks II). It's not for power surcharge or transportation or grounds keeping or anything else they do at the resort. All of that is paid for buy the RTU buyers each year in their fees just as you pay yours at your home resort. The $95 is just Di$ney greed done because II let them get away with it.  End of story. You get zero benefit for it. Therefore it's best to rent DVC time not exchange as that will often give you more control over the dates, unit size, resort, etc and save you the bogus fee and the II fee. Easy to do that vs the poor times and small units which are you can usually get for an II trade


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## jrdc (Aug 21, 2007)

KevGuy said:


> Ummm...I'm pretty sure it occurs on both sides of the fence ie:if I trade out of Disney to anywhere via II I also get charged a fee as a DVC member. It is a II fee, but I could be mistaken. Regardless of that fact keep in mind that Disney is the #1 resort destination in the world and more people go there every year than anywhere else including Universal. Seems to be a non-issue to me.



The fee that you pay when you trade out of Disney is just an exchange fee similar to what you would pay through II or RCI or any other exchange company when you confirm or initiate an exchange request.

It's a non-refundable $75, so from an absolute dollar perspective, it's less than exchanging through II as a regular member or RCI.  That money does go to Disney's "exchange", the Buena Vista Trading Company, supposedly for administration of your trade, the deposit, the week that you receive, etc.


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## tashamen (Aug 21, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Therefore it's best to rent DVC time not exchange as that will often give you more control over the dates, unit size, resort, etc and save you the bogus fee and the II fee. Easy to do that vs the poor times and small units which are you can usually get for an II trade



Okay, show me where I can rent a 1BR at DSS (or any of the other DVC onsite resorts) for a whole week for the total $400-$500 that it cost me to exchange in through II (as detailed in my earlier post), and I'll gladly do it.


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## timeos2 (Aug 21, 2007)

tashamen said:


> Okay, show me where I can rent a 1BR at DSS (or any of the other DVC onsite resorts) for a whole week for the total $400-$500 that it cost me to exchange in through II (as detailed in my earlier post), and I'll gladly do it.



Dates? Unit size? Resort? Can't quote without those.


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## tashamen (Aug 21, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Dates? Unit size? Resort? Can't quote without those.



Well, this particular exchange is for October 19th through 26th - 1BR Saratoga Springs.  And this is exactly the week I needed because it's my fall break week.  The going rate is supposedly $10 per point and I can see from the DVC point charts that this week would be 194 points.  

So are you telling me I could reliably rent these points from a DVC owner for a lot less than $1,940?


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## rhonda (Aug 21, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Dates? Unit size? Resort? Can't quote without those.


My upcoming exchange is: 
January 19-26, 2008
1BR
BWV
My costs were ~$650/wk including MF, Exchange fee + $95 DVC fee.  I'd accept Yacht Club hotel or a BWV unit.  Will not accept Dolphin, Swan, or Beach Club during the time period.


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## timeos2 (Aug 21, 2007)

rhonda said:


> My upcoming exchange is:
> January 19-26, 2008
> 1BR
> BWV
> My costs were ~$650/wk including MF, Exchange fee + $95 DVC fee.  I'd accept Yacht Club hotel or a BWV unit.  Will not accept Dolphin, Swan, or Beach Club during the time period.



January is the lowest time in Orlando.  Easily available often on an A/C or low cost rental. One of three or four times each year that DVC deposits plenty of small units as demand is so low. It has been on the LMRB in the past for $700 or less. Renting you get total control over the resort - with trade you take what they have.


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## Carl D (Aug 21, 2007)

tashamen said:


> Well, this particular exchange is for October 19th through 26th - 1BR Saratoga Springs.  And this is exactly the week I needed because it's my fall break week.  The going rate is supposedly $10 per point and I can see from the DVC point charts that this week would be 194 points.
> 
> So are you telling me I could reliably rent these points from a DVC owner for a lot less than $1,940?


Absolutely not.
IMO timeos2 has absolutely zero credibility when talking about most things Disney, particularly DVC. If you search his posts you will find continuous, hard core bashing of DVC. He even finds a way to bash DVC Members in his posts by reffering to them as "RTU renters" and the like.

Bottom line- If you want to stay at DVC, the least expensive way is to do exactly what you are doing.
For those that don't want to pay the $95, don't trade into DVC. Plain and simple.


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## timeos2 (Aug 21, 2007)

tashamen said:


> Well, this particular exchange is for October 19th through 26th - 1BR Saratoga Springs.  And this is exactly the week I needed because it's my fall break week.  The going rate is supposedly $10 per point and I can see from the DVC point charts that this week would be 194 points.
> 
> So are you telling me I could reliably rent these points from a DVC owner for a lot less than $1,940?



Most likely, yes.  October, early November, early December and January are very slow times in Orlando (which, if you can use them, make them great times to visit to avoid crowds but the weather, especially in January & February can be iffy).  

These are the periods that you see most often in II as DVC deposits them as the demand is so light. Usually if you see it in II it is not a high demand period meaning rental rates are very soft.  They deposit very few higher demand times and larger units.  Thats why trade in is not a good way to go if you want good dates, larger units or a specific resort.


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## Carl D (Aug 21, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> January is the lowest time in Orlando.  Easily available often on an A/C or low cost rental. One of three or four times each year that DVC deposits plenty of small units as demand is so low. It has been on the LMRB in the past for $700 or less. Renting you get total control over the resort - with trade you take what they have.


First, DVC is rarely on the LMRB. Second, that's probably a pre-booked week, thus no more flexibilty than trading.
If the week wasn't booked yet, you can bet the Member would be renting individual points. I would also be suspicious of a 7 day rental on the LMRB. That sounds as though it may be an II exchange.


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## jrdc (Aug 21, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> ...DVC has never provided any service that wasn't already paid for by the long term renters whose time you are using.
> 
> ...Not so with DVC and now Manhattan Club where you trade in you pay.
> 
> It's not a problem - just don't go to those resorts. That only hurts the owners there as their trade value should be negatively impacted if enough people avoid them.



I agree that you're not getting any service that wouldn't already be included with a stay at the resort, but Disney can command that additional premium to "let" their property be used for exchange.  If people weren't willing to pay it to stay there, then they wouldn't get it.

I can also clearly sense your disdain for the additional fees, but both DVC & Manhattan Club are in high enough demand that people wanting to stay at either of those places (or any other similarly high demand resorts) are willing to pay the resort fee to trade in.

Unfortunately, for Disney or anyone else, they have to "spin" the purpose of the fee.  If you're going to Disney, you're already paying a premium for park admission & Disney food, so a room premium can't be unexpected.

In spite of getting nothing additional by trading into DVC, it's still well worthwhile even with the $95.  There is no way to rent DVC points cheap enough for a 1BR anywhere on property regardless of season.  Even distressed points at $5/point would cost you over $900 for a full week in a 1BR at SSR (the 5 cheapest days of the year would still cost $500 at that rate).

Personally, I prefer to drive everywhere on property if I'm staying anywhere but Boardwalk & Beach Club because the transportation system IS slow IMO, but at the same time I have no problem with the system itself.  It works if you're willing to spend the time & don't want to rent a car.  Magical Express is great for that reason also.  Everyone's concept of vacation is different, so what works for you may not interest someone else.


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## Carl D (Aug 21, 2007)

Think of it like an RCI points trade. Some properties command more points to trade into them, which indirectly costs more money. You don't get anything extra for that additional money, just a higher demand resort.


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## rhonda (Aug 21, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> January is the lowest time in Orlando.  Easily available often on an A/C or low cost rental. One of three or four times each year that DVC deposits plenty of small units as demand is so low. It has been on the LMRB in the past for $700 or less. Renting you get total control over the resort - with trade you take what they have.


It may be low demand -- but I need to be there for a conference and I'm content with the price/value ratio.  I do enjoy "total control" through the exchange process by employing "search first" with an exact request for my target resort, unit size and travel dates.  Renting from an owner would introduce risk and increase costs.  I did well.


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## sandcastles (Aug 21, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Most likely, yes.  October, early November, early December and January are very slow times in Orlando (which, if you can use them, make them great times to visit to avoid crowds but the weather, especially in January & February can be iffy).
> 
> These are the periods that you see most often in II as DVC deposits them as the demand is so light. Usually if you see it in II it is not a high demand period meaning rental rates are very soft.  They deposit very few higher demand times and larger units.  Thats why trade in is not a good way to go if you want good dates, larger units or a specific resort.




October through early Dec. are some of the busiest and most popular times with DVC.  You have the Halloween party, Food and Wine fest, Christmas party, Christmas lights, Jersey week, etc.  DVC has been sold out for most of these dates for quite a while.  January is a slower time, that's why we like it.


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## ngmaui (Aug 23, 2007)

*Just Grabbed 1 Week at SSR with our AC*

We just used a AC from our 1 Bedroom 2 Bath at Marriott Maui Ocean Club to grab a 1 Bedroom unit at Saratoga Springs for September 23-30.  My Family is very excited to experience the Disney Magic for the less than $400 it will cost me with the AC fees, taxes and Disney Surcharge


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## FLYNZ4 (Aug 24, 2007)

I just exchanged WorldMark for a 2BR week at OKW Jan 12th - 19th.   We were already planning to go and had booked two weeks using our DVC points.

We typically use DVC points to reserve at 11 months, and lock in our frequent flyer tickets at the same time.   I also start an II exchange request, and if it comes through, then I bank my DVC points since they are a lot more expensive than my Worldmark points.

We also did the same thing this past summer (June 1st - June 15th).   We originally reserved the entire period using DVC... but then traded Worldmark for the first of the 2 weeks.

/Jim


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## Dean (Aug 25, 2007)

KauaiMark said:


> That $95 fee used to be called a "transportation fee" to use their bus/boat  system between the resort and the parks.
> 
> Noone ever checked who was getting on/off the buses so it was actually a fee for a "free included services" and it was charged even if you had your own transportation.


I'm a little late as I've been away.  Originally it was listed as a transportation/resort services fee, it has never been called simply a transportation fee.



SOS8260456 said:


> Kinda of funny that RCI would not let DVC add a $95 fee, when Smugglers Notch adds a significant fee (I think it is over $200) and I also think I have read recently where Summer Bay charges a $50 housekeeping fee.


Actually I believe this is a rumor started on this board.  I've never seen or heard any credible evidence to the contrary.  The truth appears to be more that II offered DVC better choices including the ability to do a request first and to control which resorts members traded to for several reasons.  They also gave DVC direct access to their internal exchange system by computer where DVC can actually act much like any other II rep including having access to the QRS and the ABC rating systems.  Disney is all about having control.  I have discussed this issue with a number of higher ups at II and DVC to formulate this opinion.

It is true that DVC essentially uses the fee to fund the exchange system  including requests and dining reservation but it doesn't provide much you can't get otherwise.  While I don't agree with it overall, it doesn't bother me either.   I have traded in to DVC many times and even though I'm a member and getting nothing else in return, not even the minor benefits non members get, I still must pay the fee same as anyone else who trades in.  Note, this is only for WDW resorts, not the two off site options.


KevGuy, it is true that this is an extra fee above and separate from the exchange fee.  It's essentially a tax on those trading in to the WDW DVC resorts.  As noted above, it's still a great deal in many cases.  I am a DVC member but have been paring my holding down over the past few years with the intent of trading in almost all trips.  I think I've had six exchanges and one points stay in the last 2 years.  The only way DVC members would pay this or a similar fee would be if they trade in to DVC using a non DVC option OR if they trade into another resort that charges other fees.  While I understand the illusion that all exchangers should be equal no matter where they exchange to or from, this has really never been the case.  Every resort is different in some way.  Some give members perks like dining discounts, free parking or waived extra fees, etc.  As some will note, a well run points system will make some of the differences more transparent.  I always think it’s funny and wonder what underlying problem generated the venom that some hold in this area.


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## KevGuy (Aug 31, 2007)

Thanks Dean, I ddin't realize it was above the fee that was already paid for the transfer and thought it was the same.



			
				ngmaui said:
			
		

> We just used a AC from our 1 Bedroom 2 Bath at Marriott Maui Ocean Club to grab a 1 Bedroom unit at Saratoga Springs for September 23-30. My Family is very excited to experience the Disney Magic for the less than $400 it will cost me with the AC fees, taxes and Disney Surcharge



Nice ngmaui, I hope you wanna go back in '09 or '10 lol, I'm dying to go to that resort in Maui. Just gotta get my kids get a little older before the 11 hour flight ideas are entertained. Where is Mass are you? I'm from Charlestown in Boston originally "a townie" lol, now in Stoughton just south of Boston. Hope you enjoy Disney!! :whoopie:


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## timeos2 (Aug 31, 2007)

SOS8260456 said:


> Kinda of funny that RCI would not let DVC add a $95 fee, when Smugglers Notch adds a significant fee (I think it is over $200) and I also think I have read recently where Summer Bay charges a $50 housekeeping fee.



I'm fairly sure that the RCI of today would let the fee pass - although they would certainly want some or all of it or add their own on top.  But we're talking 1996 when the DVC penalty was the first time anyone had tried the scam.  RCI blocked it - II embraced it to get the DVC name as they have also bent or broken the rules for many other mini-systems.  It's one of the many reasons I have very little respect for II. 

Of course once DVC got away with it there should be no surprise that others would try it too. It took longer than I would have expected but, as you say, now we have both II & RCI resorts that break the simple week for week rule. Another reason to avoid exchange and simply rent what you want.  And if you do exchange remember to give any resort that pulls the mandatory fee BS very, very low marks and explain why.  Maybe the owners will get tired of having low scores and make the practice stop.


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## Carl D (Aug 31, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> And if you do exchange remember to give any resort that pulls the mandatory fee BS very, very low marks and explain why.  Maybe the owners will get tired of having low scores and make the practice stop.


Even though this has been rehashed over and over, I'm still not sure where to start.

John, if you don't like the fee, just don't exchange into DVC. It really is just that simple. It's not brain surgery. 

Why would someone pay the fee to stay there, then give low scores? If you are that opposed to the fee, why pay it in the first place to stay there? It just doesn't make sense. 

Would you buy something at Wallmart, get it home, then write a complaint letter about the management because you thought the price was too high? Of course not. You would simply not buy it in the first place.


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## timeos2 (Aug 31, 2007)

*Why defend them? You're only a renter anyway. Like any landlord they do as they want*



Carl D said:


> Even though this has been rehashed over and over, I'm still not sure where to start.
> 
> John, if you don't like the fee, just don't exchange into DVC. It really is just that simple. It's not brain surgery.
> 
> ...



Carl - If in order to shop at Walmart they demanded a $95 fee after you were at the checkout unless you were a stockholder the correlation would be closer but still not perfect. I understand that some people want to stay at DVC and on occasion get an II based exchange in.   Then, as you see very often here on TUG, want to know why they are being charged in addition to the exchange fee. So if they REALLY want it - I don't , so I don't trade in - then they are told "at checkout or in this case check in - pay $95 or leave". Take it if thats what you want and then do the same in return that you just got. Screw them over on the scores. Starting the stay out like that what else would they expect? I did do it to the Manhattan Club when they started pulling that nonsense and, what do you know, others must be too as their scores have dropped. Yahoo! Lets hope everyone told them why so they are sure of what the problem is.  

DVC deserves the same. Say you don't like the fees, the smaller than average units, the often so-so cleaning and rate them poorly. Maybe it will change but I doubt it. DVC is above listening to mere exchange guests I'm sure.  Meanwhile if you want to use DVC - rent. It's often cheaper and you get what you want rather than the leftovers.


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## Carl D (Aug 31, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Carl - If in order to shop at Walmart they demanded a $95 fee after you were at the checkout unless you were a stockholder the correlation would be closer but still not perfect.


But, you see, they would have asked for the fee BEFORE you ever entered trhe store. 
You have the option of going to the K-Mart down the street.



> Say you don't like the fees, the smaller than average units, the often so-so cleaning and rate them poorly. Maybe it will change but I doubt it.


First, the units may not be the largest in the industry, but again, they don't keep that a secret. You can easily find the square footage before you pay the $95 fee.

Second, I will be the first to say DVC housekeeping can be improved upon.
That said, it's far better than most hotels I've stayed at, and I dare to say I stay at more hotels than anyone on this board.
DVC is VERY responsive to housekeeping complaints, as they should be. Guests will naturally expect more in the way of cleanliness simply because it's Disney. I can't argue with that, as I do the same.


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## Carl D (Aug 31, 2007)

Here's a renown idea- Let the market forces work. 
If enough exchangers are unhappy enough to not pay the fee, DVC will be less in demand causing the trade power to eventually fall.


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## Dean (Aug 31, 2007)

John, I agree with Carl, simply skip it if you don't like it.  Or complain and complain to II about it trying to get it changed.  But, I've said it before and i'll say it again, anyone who accepts the exchange knowing about the fee IN ADVANCE and them marks them down in a premeditated fashion simply because of the fee is just plain dishonest.  I just went back and did an evaluation to make sure I had all the info to respond.  There are NO items that are directly applicable to the fees or even the value of a given exchange.  Thus one would have to lie in other areas to give a resort low marks for a reason along these lines.  If there are other things that you simply don't like, by all means mark them accurately.  If you want to add the comments in the comment boxes, that is absolutely fair as well.  

I continue to wonder what falling you you had with DVC given your crusade in this area as a former owner.


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## timeos2 (Aug 31, 2007)

Dean said:


> I continue to wonder what falling you you had with DVC given your crusade in this area as a former owner.



Dean - While it makes me feel a bit like Carolinian (talking about the good old days) my distaste for Disney dates back to 1994-1997.  Back then we could have easily joined you & Carl in the "we love everything Disney" club.  When my Dad bought into DVC with the idea that the family would enjoy it and use the annual passes they were giving back then we couldn't have been happier. 

But within a year the ugly and all controlling side of the heavy handed Disney showed itself.  The passes - they were only good for the named buyer. Period. Not the family, not any exchange guests. The named buyer(s) only. That was never explained at the purchase and I swear they did it after the fact as it is in none of the original paperwork.  I was already uncomfortable with the RTU idea vs a deed and this early example of what we saw as changing the rules on a whim started the negative ball rolling. But the passes were only for 5 years anyway so we got names added to the contract and thought we were all set. 2nd year - OK. 3rd year - they are back to the ORIGINAL names only!  No one knows "how you got that changed" the previous use period. Now I'm getting steamed.  My Dad is furious and makes the trip just to get the passes and swears he'll never set foot on Disney property again. As far as I know he never has.  4th year my brother uses it so I don't know if they got the passes or not - he wouldn't complain either way and has never said.  5th year we're back and fight for nearly a full day to get the last set of passes - they weren't happy and neither were we. The hassle spoiled the whole trip.  

Now we're a "standard" owner, no passes and we go to deposit some of our points with RCI. Nope - we're II now.  Since when? As of NEXT year. Then why can't we deposit now? Never did get an answer or a deposit.  But we did get an RCI exchange into DVC that summer (unlike II RCI used to get good periods and even 2 BR in prime times).  But when we get there they want a $95 transportation fee.   What?  $95 transportation fee or you go home.  We called RCI  - they know nothing about it.  So we pay (as daughter is in tears thinking we aren't going to get to stay) but we protest it to DVC & RCI.  Later that year we get a check back from DVC for $95 - no explanation. We also get a letter from RCI stating DVC was not allowed to add fees covered by the annual fees and not also charged to owners. Thank you RCI!  Another black mark for II. 

1999. We now know that DVC will not allow any deposits to RCI even though they were the promised  and official company when my Dad bought. Any other resort would let old owners use what they had-even Wastegate does that - not DVC. Cut off. We had already tried II and found it to be poor compared to RCI.  The absolute control, the disregard for the buyer, change simply so they could make more money - it was too much. I had seen the ugly underbelly of Disney and it literally soured me on them forevermore.  It helped that as my daughter turned 10 she started to like Busch Gardens and Universal better - we had no need to pay homage to Disney anymore. I don't miss them. Dad sold the points (and made money - at least that worked out)

I laughed last night when Jay Leno had in his opening:
"People were complaining that a gas station outside Disney World is charging $4.50 per gallon of gas. $4.50 per gallon!  They felt this was unfair as the ripoff is supposed to start AFTER you get inside Disney World..."

Disney of today is all about money. Nothing else. We've seen it a few times since. It is a shadow of what it once was.  I have to say I sure saw it coming.


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## tomandrobin (Aug 31, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> DVC people trading out to other resorts don't pay it. They should as long as DVC is charging it but thats another story.



Actually, Disney does charge DVC members a $95 fee to use thier points at a non-DVC Disney property. Its not a timeshare exchange, but there still is a $95 fee.


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## timeos2 (Aug 31, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> Actually, Disney does charge DVC members a $95 fee to use thier points at a non-DVC property. Its not a timeshare exchange, but there still is a $95 fee.



Plus the II fee? Really?


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## tomandrobin (Aug 31, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Plus the II fee? Really?



No II fee for Disney Hotel stays, just a fee to use your points at Poly, Grand Floridian or any other Disney resort.


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## tomandrobin (Aug 31, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Disney of today is all about money. Nothing else. We've seen it a few times since. It is a shadow of what it once was.  I have to say I sure saw it coming.



Who or which company is not about the money? 

We are relatively new owners, about two years. We really enjoy our membership and the perks come with it. Just like when you were members, none of our perks are guaranteed. We knew that when we bought. 

I don't think there are many, if any timeshares, that can and will take away or change any perk that they currently receive. Even perks that are written with some of other timeshares have big disclaimers that gives them the right to change the plans or take them away.


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## Dean (Aug 31, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Dean - While it makes me feel a bit like Carolinian (talking about the good old days) my distaste for Disney dates back to 1994-1997.  Back then we could have easily joined you & Carl in the "we love everything Disney" club.  When my Dad bought into DVC with the idea that the family would enjoy it and use the annual passes they were giving back then we couldn't have been happier.
> 
> But within a year the ugly and all controlling side of the heavy handed Disney showed itself.  The passes - they were only good for the named buyer. Period. Not the family, not any exchange guests. The named buyer(s) only. That was never explained at the purchase and I swear they did it after the fact as it is in none of the original paperwork.  I was already uncomfortable with the RTU idea vs a deed and this early example of what we saw as changing the rules on a whim started the negative ball rolling. But the passes were only for 5 years anyway so we got names added to the contract and thought we were all set. 2nd year - OK. 3rd year - they are back to the ORIGINAL names only!  No one knows "how you got that changed" the previous use period. Now I'm getting steamed.  My Dad is furious and makes the trip just to get the passes and swears he'll never set foot on Disney property again. As far as I know he never has.  4th year my brother uses it so I don't know if they got the passes or not - he wouldn't complain either way and has never said.  5th year we're back and fight for nearly a full day to get the last set of passes - they weren't happy and neither were we. The hassle spoiled the whole trip.
> 
> ...


John, DVC was my first timeshare purchase and I too was naive at that point.  I know that DVC knew that they were changing to RCI as early as 1994 because they told me such.  I have several versions of the POS as early as 1993 and all of them say that the limited park passes are good for the owners and their guests but not renters or exchangers.  And I know that I had many family and friends use my points at OKW and get the free park passes when we were not along on the trip.  I know that the passes were extended to include MGM though the initial indication was they would not be.  And the passes were NOT extended to AKV when they initially indicated they likely would.  They also stated in print that the 2000 points borrowed to 1999 would not qualify for free passes, they later changed this stance because the POS would not support that position.  Of course one had to stay at OKW to get the passes but we road that for all it was worth.  As for why your experience was different than the written rules, I obviously can't say.

If you look at me as a "believer" when it comes to DVC or RCI points vs weeks, you would be sorely mistaken.  As any of those that frequent both DIS or dvctalk and TUG can tell you in regards to DVC, that is simply not the case.  I'm a realist and honest to the point where many there likely think I've far too negative.  

There's no doubt that DVC needs to be in control, that was true when they were with RCI and true now.  But I find it interesting how one could prefer the deposit first method over the request first one that went in place with II even if they preferred RCI otherwise. The new system was and is better for almost all DVC members though it does leave a lot on the table and a lot to be desired.

I do appreciate the time and effort for you to post your story and it only confirms my suspicions that you are not an objective participant in these discussions regarding DVC but then again many DVC members are not either.  I'd like to think I am, I do my best, but only God knows for certain.

DVC is a corporate member of II as they were RCI.  The DVC member can't even join II, or RCI previously, directly even if they wanted.  Thus if they changed exchange companies it only makes sense you'd have no options past a pending deposit.


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## Carl D (Sep 1, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> But within a year the ugly and all controlling side of the heavy handed Disney showed itself.  The passes - they were only good for the named buyer. Period. Not the family, not any exchange guests. The named buyer(s) only. That was never explained at the purchase and I swear they did it after the fact as it is in none of the original paperwork.  I was already uncomfortable with the RTU idea vs a deed and this early example of what we saw as changing the rules on a whim started the negative ball rolling. But the passes were only for 5 years anyway so we got names added to the contract and thought we were all set. 2nd year - OK. 3rd year - they are back to the ORIGINAL names only!  No one knows "how you got that changed" the previous use period. Now I'm getting steamed.  My Dad is furious and makes the trip just to get the passes and swears he'll never set foot on Disney property again. As far as I know he never has.  4th year my brother uses it so I don't know if they got the passes or not - he wouldn't complain either way and has never said.  5th year we're back and fight for nearly a full day to get the last set of passes - they weren't happy and neither were we. The hassle spoiled the whole trip.


Interesting, buy I'm wondering just who bought DVC? You or your father??
It also seems as though your main reason for purchasing was the free passes???  



> I laughed last night when Jay Leno had in his opening:
> "People were complaining that a gas station outside Disney World is charging $4.50 per gallon of gas. $4.50 per gallon!  They felt this was unfair as the ripoff is supposed to start AFTER you get inside Disney World..."


Ironically, gas prices are cheaper on Disney property. Strange but true, and I have no idea why.


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## Carl D (Sep 1, 2007)

Dean said:


> I do appreciate the time and effort for you to post your story and it only confirms my suspicions that you are not an objective participant in these discussions regarding DVC but then again many DVC members are not either.  I'd like to think I am, I do my best, but only God knows for certain.


Yes, Dean calls it as he sees it. 
I admit to drinking the Kool-Aid now and again, but Dean is a straight shooter... although I disagree with him much of the time.


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## timeos2 (Sep 1, 2007)

Carl D said:


> Interesting, buy I'm wondering just who bought DVC? You or your father??
> It also seems as though your main reason for purchasing was the free passes???



No - but they were the big plus in those days. Remember others were handing out $100 or more in 1992/3 dollars and Disney was giving an Ice Cream Sundae.  as the tour "gift".  Plus the difference in cost between a non-DVC resort was made much less attractive when free passes were in the mix for DVC. Even then that was a few hundred dollars to offset fees. 

We never complained about the end of the passes although they had hinted at the sale time that they would most likely be continued. We understood from the start there was a time limit.  But the silly restrictions were never discussed nor where they in the docs. That we complained about - bitterly.


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## Carl D (Sep 1, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> No - but they were the big plus in those days. Remember others were handing out $100 or more in 1992/3 dollars and Disney was giving an Ice Cream Sundae.  as the tour "gift".  Plus the difference in cost between a non-DVC resort was made much less attractive when free passes were in the mix for DVC. Even then that was a few hundred dollars to offset fees.
> 
> We never complained about the end of the passes although they had hinted at the sale time that they would most likely be continued. We understood from the start there was a time limit.  But the silly restrictions were never discussed nor where they in the docs. That we complained about - bitterly.


Moral of the story:

-- Never believe what a salesman says, let alone what he hints at.

-- Don't buy a timeshare because you are counting on a perk that is included at the time.

John, from what I read you are way too smart to fall into the above trap. Perhaps that was in your more naive days, and if so you should really chalk the whole DVC thing up to a learning experience, and let the hostillity go...


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## timeos2 (Sep 1, 2007)

tomandrobin said:


> No II fee for Disney Hotel stays, just a fee to use your points at Poly, Grand Floridian or any other Disney resort.



Not the same thing then.  I have no problem with that fee as you are stepping outside the timeshare/exchange process and crossing over into unrelated hotel time. They can charge what they want for that.


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## timeos2 (Sep 1, 2007)

*Everyday is a new lesson*



Carl D said:


> Moral of the story:
> 
> -- Never believe what a salesman says, let alone what he hints at.
> 
> ...



Carl -

Naive? Heavens yes!  That is back in 1992-94. No TUG, no Internet groups like today.  I was definitely in learning mode then. While I had already figured out that resale meant savings it wasn't easy to track down and certainly no peer support like today. 

In fact between the issues with DVC, the explosion of Internet groups, Timesharing Today and then my extremely informative "training" about all things developer and timeshare framed my opinions now. As I became a Board member and ended up fighting a developer for control of a resort (along with all the owner Board members and an extremely supportive owner base) I have learned first hand far more than I ever wanted to know about the industry.  

It is that body of largely negative experience with the operational and control sides of timeshare, not the very enjoyable actual use, that, for better or worse, makes me jump in whenever I see misrepresentations or statements of "fact" regarding timeshare that simply don't hold up in the real world.  There is nothing like hands on experience to teach you exactly how things work.


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## ralphd (Sep 2, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> It is that body of largely negative experience with the operational and control sides of timeshare, not the very enjoyable actual use, that, for better or worse, makes me jump in whenever I see misrepresentations or statements of "fact" regarding timeshare that simply don't hold up in the real world.  There is nothing like hands on experience to teach you exactly how things work.



Is the glass half empty or half full?  Your view *always* seems to be 'half empty'. But what can you expect of a David Siegel supporter.


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## timeos2 (Sep 2, 2007)

*No love for the King and his court of weasels*



ralphd said:


> But what can you expect of a David Siegel supporter.



Supporter? While I do own a Wastegate it dates back to that same 1993 period, purchased resale even then. It is the one and only timeshare purchase I would not make again if I had it to do over even though the actual resort has been OK.  I would advise, and have, everyone to stay away from Wastegate and King David at every opportunity.  The absolute bottom feeder of timesharing sales.  

1/2 empty? Not really but I see little point in jumping in to say "right on" when someone says how great timesharing is as an owner at a good resort, in the right multi-resort system or as an exchange guest. It's supposed to be that and most of the time that side - the use - not only meets but often exceeds your expectations.  Its the behind the scenes problems - look at Wastegate - that can take an otherwise great product right down the tubes.  Or the ever increasing hassles of the big exchange groups.  Avoid those by using what you buy and your ownership can be just peachy.  In fact the cup can be overflowing.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 3, 2007)

*Sella-Sella-Sella -- Then Buya-Buya-Buya.  (Or Vice Versa.)*




timeos2 said:


> I do own a Wastegate it dates back to that same 1993 period, purchased resale even then. It is the one and only timeshare purchase I would not make again if I had it to do over even though the actual resort has been OK.


A savvy timeshare maven ought to be able to sell off an unloved WestGate unit & use the proceeds to buy an equivalent eBay CP2 -- or maybe even another CP1 via eBay*.* 

Shucks, somebody (not me) on the CP1 FSBO list is offering a CP1 Floating Emerald 3BR lock-off ( -- they're _all_ floating 3BR lock-offs over there at CP1 -- ) for only $1*,*999.  Maybe they'd take even less -- you never know. 

The other way round works just as well -- buy 1st & then sell.  Either way upgrades the portfolio, no ? 

It might even be possible to come out ahead via that kind of timeshare wheeling & dealing, who knows ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## sfwilshire (Sep 3, 2007)

Carl D said:


> It also seems as though your main reason for purchasing was the free passes???



I'm sure you didn't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with that. I was considering the DVC at the time the passes were included. They changed that before I pulled the trigger and that was enough to make me decide it wasn't for me.

As for the rating, I don't see any problem with rating any resort you stay in however you like for whatever reasons. Even if all of us here at TUG took the same stance and gave them a poor score, the demand would be so high that it would never make a difference. That wouldn't be true of a lot of properties, but Disney could care less. Many of us would still be eager to exchange in, no matter how low their scores were. 

Sheila


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## Carl D (Sep 3, 2007)

sfwilshire said:


> I'm sure you didn't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with that. I was considering the DVC at the time the passes were included. They changed that before I pulled the trigger and that was enough to make me decide it wasn't for me.


No, there's nothing "wrong" with it, but unless DVC put in writing that we would have free passes for life, it wouldn't be my determining factor to purchase.



> As for the rating, I don't see any problem with rating any resort you stay in however you like for whatever reasons. Even if all of us here at TUG took the same stance and gave them a poor score, the demand would be so high that it would never make a difference. That wouldn't be true of a lot of properties, but Disney could care less. Many of us would still be eager to exchange in, no matter how low their scores were.


Well I guess we disagree on this point. I fully agree with scoring a resort as you see it, and also putting down other opinions in the remarks section. I do not believe it's appropriate to to give a "0" in customer service (or whatever the category is) to show a displeasure of the fee. Instead maybe you should score it correctly, then write a strongly worded letter to DVC and send a copy to II. That would probably accomplish a lot more.


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## KevGuy (Sep 6, 2007)

Hey, I drink the DVC Koolaid every chance I get lmao!! :whoopie:   

Sorry for the sad attempt at humor, but this thread has gotten very silly, it's time to lighten up everyone. To each their own is my opinion, people will do what they want regardless of the long walls of text posted here. It certainly isn't going to change anyone's opinion IMO.   Can't we all move on lol. :ignore:


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