# Which Marriott to choose



## Vacationsarefun (Jul 24, 2012)

I am still thinking about getting a timeshare (our first) and am leaning towards a Marriott.

I would appreciate some feedback about which resort would work best for us. Here are some of our considerations:

As we live overseas the "buy where you can drive to" rule won't work in our case. However, the resort should be close to a major airport (i.e. one with a large number of international flights). It should also be in an area with many different attractions as we would usually come for at least three weeks (not all at one timeshare but other vacation destinations/attractions should be within a couple of hours drive).

I would like to have a lock-off unit in order to get two weeks of vacation out of one maintenance fee.

We would probably want to stay at our home resort about every second year and use it to trade the other times so should be a fair trader.

We are stuck with the school schedule so would have to travel in August/early September and maybe Easter. A one bedroom unit would be fine for us to use.

Don't really want a Marriott resort in Orlando as we liked Sheraton Vistana Villages and would possibly like to trade into DVC (not with the Marriott of course).

At the moment I am leaning towards Shadow Ridge but maybe there is another resort that would be even better?


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## jont (Jul 24, 2012)

East Coast- Manor Club lockoff
Florida-Ocean Pointe or Beachplace
West Coast- Canyon Villas or Grand Chateau


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## jdunn1 (Jul 24, 2012)

I think you should go with WorldMark.  No Marriott preference but it's a points bases system and the dues are very reasonable.  Best of all, you can use WM points internally (mostly California, Oregon, Washington, Canada, Nevada, Utah, Arizona resorts) or WM has top trading power in Interval and RCI, so you could get all the major timeshare brands with only one timeshare ownership.  WorldMark trades best in RCI since there are no resort preference periods like there are in II, but Worldmark is a very inexpensive trader and trades just as well as the Hyatts and Marriotts in Interval, just without any kind of internal resort brand preference.

Do yourself a favor and look into WorldMark.  WorldMark is not on many people's radar screens, but boy is it a valuable timeshare to own, especially if you can only own one.


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## VacationForever (Jul 24, 2012)

jont said:


> East Coast- Manor Club lockoff
> Florida-Ocean Pointe or Beachplace
> West Coast- Canyon Villas or Grand Chateau



I live in CA and I have been considering a Marriott as well.  I have narrowed down to Canyon Villas vs. Desert Springs II.  Pros vs. cons?

Thanks.  SP


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## K2Quick (Jul 24, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> I think you should go with WorldMark.



I'd have to know where the OP wants to vacation most of the time before recommending Worldmark.  Worldmark is great if you spend most of your time on the west coast.  However, if you spend most of your time vacationing back east, I'd probably opt for something else.  If used primarily for trading, there are traders that are equal or better to Worldmark from a cost of entry perspective and from a system preference perspective.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't disagree.  Sounds like the OP wants a trader, mostly -- and it sounds like DVC is what interests the OP at least half the time.  WM is just the safest timeshare to own in terms of being able to sell quickly if you need to and the dues are caped at a certain increase each year.  The original poster is also looking for flexibility (i.e. traveling 3 weeks at a time).  If you own WM and want to travel more one year, you can rent the extra points to make a 3 week vacation possible and for about the same cost in dues as if you owned the points.

If Marriott preference is important to the original poster and getting multiple trades within the Marriott family of resorts then I think a 3 bedroom a the Marriott in Las Vegas would be a good way to go but the dues are close to 1,700 a year for that.




K2Quick said:


> I'd have to know where the OP wants to vacation most of the time before recommending Worldmark.  Worldmark is great if you spend most of your time on the west coast.  However, if you spend most of your time vacationing back east, I'd probably opt for something else.  If used primarily for trading, there are traders that are equal or better to Worldmark from a cost of entry perspective and from a system preference perspective.


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## ilene13 (Jul 24, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> I am still thinking about getting a timeshare (our first) and am leaning towards a Marriott.
> 
> I would appreciate some feedback about which resort would work best for us. Here are some of our considerations:
> 
> ...



We own 4 Marriott weeks and 3 Royal Resort weeks.  I would buy a RR week in Cancun or Playa del Carmen.  They are lock off units and they trade as well as my Marriott Platinum weeks.


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## brigechols (Jul 24, 2012)

K2Quick said:


> If used primarily for trading, there are traders that are equal or better to Worldmark from a cost of entry perspective and from a system preference perspective.


 Can you give an example? Thanks!


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## K2Quick (Jul 24, 2012)

brigechols said:


> Can you give an example? Thanks!



Sheraton Desert Oasis for one.  Pretty much no cost of entry.  Lock off and deposit both one-bed units from a two-bed unit in II and get two deposits that see pretty much everything in II instant exchange inventory for maintenance fees of about $500 per exchange.  Plus you get an incredibly valuable three to four week preference period on Starwood deposits.  Worldmark has preference on nothing in II.

I'm coming at this as someone who currently owns nothing but Worldmark, but I don't think WM should be recommended to someone unless that someone plans to use it quite a bit.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. Let me give some more background. 

Ideally I would like a timeshare that I could use about half the time and trade the other half. Right now I am thinking of a lock off unit which should give me two weeks per year (right?) if I split it. Adding on another week with an II getaway or similar would get me three weeks. 

I don't really want a huge up-front cost (unless it really gets me some MAJOR advantages). Yearly mf shouldn't be much more than 1,000. 

I would prefer buying a timeshare that I would like to visit at least occasionally - just in case the future holds major problems with exchanges.

In recent years we have visited mostly Florida and California. I don't really see us spending too much time in Arizona or Las Vegas in the next five to ten years. 

I would say we would probably visit the US about 2 in 3 years (the third year either banking the timeshare use for the next year or using it in Europe). We would probably alternate between visiting California and Florida/East Coast. 

In California I am mostly interested in Southern California. In Florida maybe a split between Orlando and a week at the beach. I don't want to mess up our chances for DVC but it isn't a major goal either. 

Thanks again for all the help!


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## K2Quick (Jul 24, 2012)

Given what you've laid out, Worldmark would actually be decent option for you.  You have your choice of multiple resorts in Southern California.  Orlando is an easy trade (and can be done very cheaply with WM points).  WM is also affiliated with both II and RCI so that leaves the door open to trade into DVC if you want.

The biggest caveat, in my opinion, is that Worldmark is a noticeable step down in luxury from Marriott (while still being clean and comfortable).


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## brigechols (Jul 24, 2012)

If you will consider a Starwood unit, check the TUG Bargain deals for free units. For Marriott, I agree in part with a previous poster.

East Coast- Manor Club 
Florida-Ocean Pointe 
West Coast- DSV

Curious, how do you plan to trade into DVC?


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## dougp26364 (Jul 24, 2012)

For exchanging only, I really like our Grand Chateau 3 bedroom unit. The main reason we purchased this unit was the lockout was a full 1 bedroom. With a full 1 bedroom we can utilize deposit first exchange requests and be able to always request a 1 bedroom unit. If the lockout were a studio unit, we'd either have to accept a match of another studio unit or utilize online exchanges only in an attempt to trade up in size. Neither the wife or I really enjoy studio units. We tend to get up or go to bed at different times. The 1 bedroom size allows us to stay up or get up earlier than the other without disturbing each others sleep.

Exchanges we've made since owning our 3 bedroom Grand Chateau unit:

*1 bedroom MGC unit exchanges*

May 1 bedroom Custom House (have made this exchange twice)

May 2 bedroom Barony Beach Club 

June 2 bedroom Mountainside

May 2 bedroom Harbor Club @ Harbor Town

March 1 bedroom Grand Chateau (before we purchased second EOY unit we exchanged back into our home resort in non-use year)

*2 bedroom MGC exchanges*

March 2 bedroom Newport Coast

March 2 bedroom Desert Springs Villa's II

March 2 bedroom Waiohai

April 2 bedroom Willow Ridge Lodge 
 

Many of the 2 bedroom exchanges were request first exchanges. We love our unit at MGC and don't mind going there yearly but, we also love trying now locations and have no issues making an exchange if I.I. can confirm it. 

The big issues I see with this unit for you would be;

#1, The MF's last year for the 3 bedroom unit was $1,600, which is higher than you're stated desire for a MF.

#2, You don't seem inclined to want to travel to Vegas if all else fails. 

The advantages:

#1 It has a history of exchanging very well

#2 Vegas has a very large number of internationjal flights

#3 Vegas has a reasonable location for other points west if you're so inclined to fly into one airport and not mind driving to other locations.


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## EKniager (Jul 24, 2012)

I am a fan of the Manor Club too.  You can hit the Virginia wine trail from there, the coast, the Outer Banks, DC, etc.  And of course there are great historic sites and golf courses real close.  It is inexpensive by resale and has modest annual MF's.  Then again, you might be able to rent there for equal to or close to MF's a good portion of the year.


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## jont (Jul 24, 2012)

EKniager said:


> I am a fan of the Manor Club too.  You can hit the Virginia wine trail from there, the coast, the Outer Banks, DC, etc.  And of course there are great historic sites and golf courses real close.  It is inexpensive by resale and has modest annual MF's.  Then again, you might be able to rent there for equal to or close to MF's a good portion of the year.



You can also drive up to Baltimore, Philly, NY, and even Boston.
I've had MC on my radar screen for some time now. It's a strong contender should I consider another Marriott purchase.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 24, 2012)

brigechols said:


> If you will consider a Starwood unit, check the TUG Bargain deals for free units. For Marriott, I agree in part with a previous poster.
> 
> East Coast- Manor Club
> Florida-Ocean Pointe
> ...



As I said I am thinking of getting a first timeshare. However, depending on how we like it/how things go I might get a second one a bit later. That would be the one for exchanging into DVC. For now we would either just rent DVC or stay at a Disney hotel as we have in the past.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 24, 2012)

Manor Club does sound like it might be a good alternative. I do plan to visit New York/Washington/Myrtle Beach etc. in the next couple of years so it might work out quite well.

I will also look at the Grand Chateau. The main problem is really that it has higher mfs than I am looking for and that I don't think Las Vegas is a place we will visit as long as the kids are still young. If I bought there it would primarily be for trading - not sure if that is what I want at this point.

How about Shadow Ridge or Desert Springs? These are two resorts that I could see us visiting more often.


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## BJRSanDiego (Jul 24, 2012)

*Hot in the summer*



Vacationsarefun said:


> How about Shadow Ridge or Desert Springs? These are two resorts that I could see us visiting more often.



I own a 2 BR lockoff at Desert Springs II.  You mentioned in your initial post that you would be visiting every few years in Aug or Sept.  If you check the weather, it can be REALLY hot at that time.  Like 105 F plus or abt, 41 C plus.  Some people like the heat and some people don't.  Our favorite time in Palm Desert is probably anytime in November.  Jan through April is also nice.  On each end - - May and June or Oct, the temperature is variable.  It might be nice or it might be hot.

The ownership is broken into 3 seasons:
Platinum (or red): weeks 1-21 and 51/52
Gold (or white): Wks 22-26 and 36 to 50
Bronze (or blue): Wks 27-25

We own a DS2 white/gold week.  That means that we can book only a white week directly with Marriott and use II if you want to exchange for another resort, timeperiod, etc..  It seems to trade pretty well and has a Marriott 22 day preference when trading for other Marriotts.  Of course the platinum week will trade better.  Also, if you ever want to sell, you have a chance with the platinum but you'll basically need to give away the gold/bronze.

The Gold and Bronze are dirt cheap.  Check eBay for closed listings to get prices.  IIRC the Platinum weeks are selling for around $2500 to 3500. 

Size wise:  DS1 is bigger than DS2, which is bigger than Shadow ridge.
View issues:  DS1 efficiencies often have a patio view of the parking lot (only some end unit first floor efficiencies have a patio facing the golf course.  DS2 units all (generally) face the golf course or the ponds.  IIRC Shadow ridge units typically have a nice golf course view.

We are finding the DS2 to be a good value.  We have been able to trade the efficiency for a 1 br and have traded the 1 br for a 2 br (both within Marriott).  Also, we've traded a hot June week for a cool June week up at Lake Tahoe.  We get 2 weeks for one $1K maintenance fee plus $80 split fee to Marriott and 2 x $129 Interval Intl fee (only applies if/when we exchange).


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## BJRSanDiego (Jul 24, 2012)

*Canyon villas vs. DS2*



sptung said:


> I live in CA and I have been considering a Marriott as well.  I have narrowed down to Canyon Villas vs. Desert Springs II.  Pros vs. cons?
> 
> Thanks.  SP



I own at DS2 but have also stayed at CV.  They are both excellent timeshares.  

Typical advice that people give to people getting in to timesharing is to buy in a location that is convenienct to get to.  From N. Ca. to Palm Springs it is probably a long 1 day drive.  I think that to go from N Ca. to Phoenix is maybe 3 or 4 hours longer.  Maybe that makes it into a 2 day drive for some people.

When we were at CV last year, I REALLY enjoyed using the "lazy river" over at the nearby JW Marriott.  It is a very nice water park.  

I'm probably going to have people correct me, but I think that the DS2 and CV experiences were similarly enjoyable.  I have a hard time saying one place is better than another.

It seems like the CV's keep their value better than DS.  Their cost is more than DS.  IIRC, their MF is comparible.  

If you look at the Marriott points chart, you'll see that CV points (for a wk in a 2 br) range from 1725-4175 and DS2 is 1775-3375.

The CV are 3 story and have elevators and the DS2 are 2 story and no elevators.

I prefer the closeness of good restaurants and shopping in Palm Desert over Phoenix, but both are nice.

It probably boils down to which location you are going to find more convenient to get to and how much $ you want to initially pay.


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## Deb from NC (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm not a Marriott owner, but have traded into many Marriotts.  We LOVED Shadow Ridge (we went in February this year) I'm thinking about getting a week there as well!  I wouldn't buy anything in Orlando..it's too easy to get a trade or cheap getaway.  Manor Club is almost as nice as Shadow Ridge in my opinion, but I liked the pools at Shadow Ridge much more,if pools are important to you.
Good Luck....I've yet to stay at a Marriott that I didnt like!
Deb


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## mstoyanov (Jul 24, 2012)

As an owner of both Sheraton Desert Oasis and Worldmark I disagree that SDO is better overall trader.
SDO is better only when you need Starwood priority and do not need to run search for 2BR. WM 3BR search beats SDO hands down in ongoing search - in all instances where there wasn't enough inventory to match both searches WM search got the unit while SDO did not.
Also SDO is not a good trader in RCI.
And finally SDO will have refurbishment next year so who knows what will happen with MFs which are already pushing $1000 for 2BR LO.
It is true that SDO cost less than small WM account initially but with renting credits from other even small WM account allows as many trades as you want.
The only real strength of SDO is Starwood priority in II but that works mostly if you are after Starwood resorts and are not tied to school vacation since Starwood almost never deposits school break weeks in top resorts.
And as for the person that recommended Royal Resorts as a trader must be joking. With AI implementation RR deposits trade power will drop like a rock (if not already). Even before AI program WM was out-trading Royal deposit even for the same resort as RR deposit (when you trade back to your home resort in II you are supposed to have trade power boost).




K2Quick said:


> Sheraton Desert Oasis for one.  Pretty much no cost of entry.  Lock off and deposit both one-bed units from a two-bed unit in II and get two deposits that see pretty much everything in II instant exchange inventory for maintenance fees of about $500 per exchange.  Plus you get an incredibly valuable three to four week preference period on Starwood deposits.  Worldmark has preference on nothing in II.
> 
> I'm coming at this as someone who currently owns nothing but Worldmark, but I don't think WM should be recommended to someone unless that someone plans to use it quite a bit.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 24, 2012)

These are great points.  Thanks for making them.  Anyone who doesn't think WM is a powerful trader in II either doesn't know or is bias toward a particular brand.

I mostly recommended WM because you can buy a small contract and have dues of $500 or less a year and simply rent point from other owners whenever you want for the same cost as owning them.  I have a 5k point contract but rent points all the time whenever I need them.

Definately, the WM resorts are not glamerous like some of the Marriotts and Hyatts and Hiltons, but some are.  WM has some very nice California options, especially in wine country and San Fran and San Diego.

Having owned DVC, Marriott and WM, those are the only systems I know.  In II, having Marriott preference is a huge benefit, but only if you need to travel during peak season or at a handful of resorts that are tough to trade into all the time.  

The major disadvantage to any of the hotel brand systems (Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, Starwood) is that you have ZERO options if you need an extra week, let alone two without saving your week one year or two year.  Sure you could rent, but that is expensive and saving your week for a year or two can be hard -- at least it is for me.  Saving your week isn't really a bad way to go but what if you need a 3 bedroom one year or two units one year, there are just lots of ways where you could use/need an extra unit or week and have no way of getting one.  This is not true with WM.  If you need 10 units, you can rent points for that many weeks -- and you will be able to rent for the same price, maybe even less than if you owned those points and had to pay the dues.  This is the most beneficial aspect of WM in my oppinion.  

As a plus with WM, it is just so easy to get DVC -- and your costs are set, unlike others who have to worry about trade value and stuff.

...if the OP really wants a Marriott in California then a Desert Springs Villa I is a great way to go.  The DSV I units trade in both RCI and II.  I'm not sure how well they trade in RCI, but at least you have that option.  

My most prized timeshare ownership is definately one of my Marriott weeks but it was expensive.  My most flexible timeshare ownership that just continues to amaze is my WM ownership.



mstoyanov said:


> As an owner of both Sheraton Desert Oasis and Worldmark I disagree that SDO is better overall trader.
> SDO is better only when you need Starwood priority and do not need to run search for 2BR. WM 3BR search beats SDO hands down in ongoing search - in all instances where there wasn't enough inventory to match both searches WM search got the unit while SDO did not.
> Also SDO is not a good trader in RCI.
> And finally SDO will have refurbishment next year so who knows what will happen with MFs which are already pushing $1000 for 2BR LO.
> ...


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## Beefnot (Jul 24, 2012)

Slight correction



BJRSanDiego said:


> The ownership is broken into 3 seasons:
> Platinum (or red): weeks 1-21 and 51/5250-52
> Gold (or white): Wks 22-2627 and 36 to 5049
> Bronze (or blue): Wks 27-2528-35


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## BocaBoy (Jul 25, 2012)

We do not particularly like going to Las Vegas, but our most valuable timeshare (comparing its benefits to the cost) is without question our 3BR Grand Chateau.  I would recommend it to anyone except someone who wanted to go to the same non-Las Vegas resort in prime  season every year, in which case I would usually recommend buying at the resort I wanted to go to.


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## VacationForever (Jul 25, 2012)

mstoyanov said:


> As an owner of both Sheraton Desert Oasis and Worldmark I disagree that SDO is better overall trader.
> SDO is better only when you need Starwood priority and do not need to run search for 2BR. WM 3BR search beats SDO hands down in ongoing search - in all instances where there wasn't enough inventory to match both searches WM search got the unit while SDO did not.



Are you saying that you use a 2BR SDO and a 3BR Worldmark to search for the same 2BR property in an ongoing search? It sounds like apple and orange.  Also, is your SDO a platinum week?  

I know this thread is about Marriott but I am curious about the comparison that you have highlighted here.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 25, 2012)

Thank you so much for all the information. This is indeed helpful. I will definitely check into Worldmark as well.

So far Manor Club or one of the Palm Springs properties seem to be the best choice for us. 

I do like the trading power of the Las Vegas property (and getting there would be easy enough), but don't really see me taking the kids there repeatedly. Not sure I want my first timeshare to be one we will not visit.

CV sounds nice but is maybe a bit too remote for us.

We are actually going on a trip to California next week and will probably visit the Palm Springs area for at least a couple of days. That way we will see how we feel about the desert in summer (some seem to hate it while others enjoy the heat). Hopefully, that will help us in making a decision.

I am still uncertain about which season to get though if we were to decide on DS or SR. I know everyone says to get Platinum but that would pretty much mean that we always HAVE to trade (unless we decide to go over Easter which is probably hard to get). For the most part we would travel around weeks 32-35. However, everyone says not to buy a blue week... Does it trade that bad?

No one has mentioned any resort in the Hilton Head/Myrtle Beach area. Are they not a good option?


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## slum808 (Jul 25, 2012)

WM works a little differently than other time shares. We can choose any size unit to search with. We pay the amount if points according to what we match to. For this reason it makes the most sense to always search with what is refered to as a "3 bedroom float". It has very good strength, because its a 3 bedroom. We'll pay 12k, 10k, 9k or 8k points depending on if we match to a 3,2,1 or studio. Flexchange trades are only 4k points or about $300 in mf.


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## Beefnot (Jul 25, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> I am still uncertain about which season to get though if we were to decide on DS or SR. I know everyone says to get Platinum but that would pretty much mean that we always HAVE to trade (unless we decide to go over Easter which is probably hard to get). For the most part we would travel around weeks 32-35. However, everyone says not to buy a blue week... Does it trade that bad



The summer weeks trade decently enough because they are Marriotts. I dunno, thing is, summer Palm Springs can be had on II getaways for $400-$600 or so, and I am talking 2brs. I might think about it like this:

Scenario 1 -- summer Palm Springs Marriott Ownership
~$1,200 annual MF
$89 II membership
$119 - $169 exchange fee
In years you occupy, you are paying $1,200 + $89 = $1,289
In years you trade, you are paying $1,200 + $89 + $149 xchg fee = $1,438
Let's say you exchange every other year, so that would be $2,727 every two years

Scenario 2 -- If you bought II getaways for summer Palm Springs:

Year 1: $500 getaway + $89 = $589
Year 2 breakeven compared to Scenario 1: $2,727 scenario 1 total spend - $589 scenario 2 year 1 getaway - $89 II membership = $2,049 that could be used toward renting in year 2, or toward MFs ($1,900) and exchange fee ($149) on another owned property.

I dunno, I like scenario 2 ten times out of ten. I just don't see the value in a summer Palm Springs TS.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 25, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> The summer weeks trade decently enough because they are Marriotts. I dunno, thing is, summer Palm Springs can be had on II getaways for $400-$600 or so, and I am talking 2brs. I might think about it like this:
> 
> Scenario 1 -- summer Palm Springs Marriott Ownership
> ~$1,200 annual MF
> ...



Thanks so much for taking the time for such a detailed analysis!

Put like that it seems clear enough BUT the problem is I can't book an II getaway because I am not a timeshare owner. So I have to buy some timeshare (and pay the mfs that come with it) in order to get to scenario 2.

Now it seems a (summer) Marriott Shadow Ridge is about as cheap as it gets as far as initial purchase is concerned. I would probably always lock off the second unit (we don't really need a 2 br), even in years that I occupy - either to spend two weeks at the resort (unlikely) or to exchange the second week. 

So my calculation would be 
1200 annual mf
89 II membership
120 lock off fee (not sure how much it is but I believe somewhere around there?)
225 trading fee on average (let's say 150 in years I occupy for one week, 300 if I trade both parts)

Total of around 1700 for two weeks. 

If I bought a platinum/gold week my cost would be higher because of the higher initial purchase price AND I would always have to trade as we probably won't travel during that time.

I guess the question is whether 1700 is a good price for two weeks - it would definitely depend on the trades I could get. Also, the question is whether I would be able to get the same trades either with lower mf/fees or get better trades with the same mf/fees.

The II membership and the trading fees would basically stay the same if I bought either a different Marriott or two separate timeshares so I guess they don't really impact the comparison (please tell me if I am wrong as I am fairly new at this and might be way off). The lock off fee would not apply if I had two separate timeshares.

Still, the question is whether around 1200 annual mf would be a good deal for the kind of trades I would be likely to get with a summer SR. Would I do much better with something else at about the same cost or could I get the same quality with a lower cost?

The way the seasons are split up at the Palm Springs area Marriotts are my main problem (if I buy a better season I can't use it) so maybe a different Marriott (in which red/platinum season is at a time we can actually use) would be better.  

Thanks again for all the help! It is really helping me to figure this out.


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## m61376 (Jul 25, 2012)

Since you want multiple week vacations, if you decide you like Palm Springs in the summer you might be better off using the Getaway as a second or third vacation week and buying something else.

I know you mentioned liking DVC, but would you consider MGV 3BR units? Splits into a 2BR and a lock-off (not as ideal as the # BR in Vegas) but has good trade power, relatively low purchase cost, and people love the resort to use. For those times you want a really hard to get trade, the 3BR unit will be at the top of the heap, but for most trades you can lock off.


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## Steve A (Jul 25, 2012)

To OP: You do realize how hot it will be in Palm Desert in August and September? It will really be hot. Really, really hot. You will know without a doubt that you are in the desert.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 25, 2012)

I see that you asked about Hilton Head and/or Myrtle Beach.  If you plan to travel in the summer, and buy in cost are an issue, then neither of these locations are an option.  Summer Carolina weeks go from $15k - $28k give or take a couple thousand, even in today's market.  Gold weeks are a bit cheaper but you are still looking at around $10k for those weeks.  Also, the Carolinas are not fly to destinations -- they are drive to destinations for about half of the United States, so there are no big airports in that area.  Also, no matter what you buy, I wouldn't plan on being able to trade into these resort over the summer.  Not many people ever get a summer carolina trade, though the end of August is an exception.

Also, I totally get your concerns about buy in costs -- and frankly I think buying cheap is a good way to go but when you buy cheap, you run the risk of being stuck with a timeshare that will take years for you to even give away.  You should also give serious thought to the dues.  

My first Marriott was a platinum Willowridge week which can be had on ebay for 1k or less.  It's a platinum lock off and dues are currently at $900 a year.  This is the cheapest platinum Marriott to own both in terms of buy in cost and yearly dues.  It violates the buy where you want to go rule, but too often that rule only serves people who can afford to pay more in buy in costs for the premium locations.  I bought knowing full well it was a trader and so far things have worked out very well.  Not perfect, because I can't get into summer Carolina weeks, at least not with just the one bedroom or studio portion, but just about everything else I can get into with my Willowridge week.

I think the Marriott desert weeks are expensive in terms of dues.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think those weeks also get hit with a seperate property tax fee each year.  If your goal is to visit the desert most summers then you can own any other week and get that trade 100% of the time.  My advise is not to buy a summer desert week just because it matches the buy where you want to go rule.  Honestly, you can buy anything else and get that trade, and you will save a lot of money -- even with trade fees.

If you buy a desert week, you would be much beter served getting at least a gold/white week, and best yet, a platinum week.  I value the buy where you want to go rule, that is why I stepped up and bought a summer beach week, but an equally valuable piece of advise is to buy the cheapest lock off platinum week you can find.

If you buy into WorldMark, you don't have to worry about any of this as you are esentially buying a platinum plus week, just without any kind of Marriott or Starwood preference.  You can buy into the system for less than 2k and rent as many points as you need for as many trades as you want and you can even pick your unit size.

Good luck, lots to think about, I know.


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## jont (Jul 25, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> No one has mentioned any resort in the Hilton Head/Myrtle Beach area. Are they not a good option?



The South Carolina Marriott resorts are great, as is Newport Coast in California. The only reason I did not mention these resorts is because they are not lockoffs, which was part of your criteria stated in your OP.

If you want to go the II getaway option you may consider buying a Marriott Every other year (EOY) unit and pay only half the maintenance fees. Canyon Villas and Vegas both have EOY weeks, but i'm not sure about Palm Springs. There is a gold EOY CV unit on ebay right now at about $300. maintenance fees would be about $500 a year. Just another thought.


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## Deb from NC (Jul 25, 2012)

I don't think any of the Marriotts on Hilton Head are lockoffs, are they?
FYI..we went to Shadow Ridge in February and loved the weather then..but
it was already 70's and 80's. I wouldn't go there in the summer!


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## EKniager (Jul 25, 2012)

You could get into Harbour Point at Shelter Cove (on HHI) inexpensively.  We got Week #21 (Memorial Day week most years) for ~$750, including closing costs.  It is not the typical amenity filled Marriott, it is not directly on the beach, they do not have lock-offs, and it probably rents for only slightly more than MF's.  From their you could travel to Savannah, Charleston, St. Augustine, Kiawah, Amelia, Beaufort, etc., although a week staying put there would make me very happy.


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## SMB1 (Jul 25, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> Thanks for all the input. Let me give some more background.
> 
> Ideally I would like a timeshare that I could use about half the time and trade the other half. Right now I am thinking of a lock off unit which should give me two weeks per year (right?) if I split it. Adding on another week with an II getaway or similar would get me three weeks.
> 
> ...



Our Lakeshore Reserve unit locks off into two 1 BRs which trade very well within II.  No need to trade when you go to Orlando.  Not a DVC property but a very nice resort with 20 minute drive to the parks. 5 Min to Seaworld.


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## Beefnot (Jul 25, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think those weeks also get hit with a seperate property tax fee each year.



Oh thats right, the property taxes are billed separately at around $60-$100 or so annually. Another cost into the equation



Vacationsarefun said:


> Put like that it seems clear enough BUT the problem is I can't book an II getaway because I am not a timeshare owner. So I have to buy some timeshare (and pay the mfs that come with it) in order to get to scenario 2.



Oh, yes, true.



Vacationsarefun said:


> Now it seems a (summer) Marriott Shadow Ridge is about as cheap as it gets as far as initial purchase is concerned. I would probably always lock off the second unit (we don't really need a 2 br), even in years that I occupy - either to spend two weeks at the resort (unlikely) or to exchange the second week.
> 
> So my calculation would be
> 1200 annual mf
> ...



If you go in summer, in a 1br, you are looking at $300-$400 per week on getaway, say, $800 for two weeks.  You may still be better off buying a L/O trader elsewhere, like Grande Vista in Orlando or Willow Ridge in Branson.

So, take Branson at $1000 MF ($900 plus amortizing a $1000 purch price, using jdunn1's example, over ten years). If you locked off and traded into PS for two consecutive weeks (and you will almost certainly get 2brs in exchange for each week...nice bonus), it would cost you $1000 + $80 + $89 + $149 + $149 (although I think Marriott to Marriott xchg fee is $119) for $1,467 per year.

In your example, you would be spending $1200 + $80 + $89 + $60 property tax = $1429 in years you completely occupied. You would spend $1200 + $80 + $89 + $149 + $60 = $1,578 in years you occupied one week and xchg one week. You would spend $1,200 + $80 + $89 + ($149 x 2) +$60 = $1,737 in years where you xch both sides.

Another yet another option is to buy a 1br trader, and buy getaways for Palm Springs summer.



Vacationsarefun said:


> If I bought a platinum/gold week my cost would be higher because of the higher initial purchase price AND I would always have to trade as we probably won't travel during that time.



Yes, it would be questionable to purchase a plat PS to have to trade into summer Palm Springs.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 25, 2012)

Again thanks for all the information! I already know a lot more than when I first asked the question.

Okay, I realize now that Myrtle Beach/Hilton Head are too expensive and not lock-offs so they are definitely out. Our summer vacations typically run from August to about mid-September so we might be able to get an exchange there sometime in the later part of the vacation if we really want to (maybe trading a 2 bedroom for a 1 bedroom?).

I know the desert will be hot - just not sure if it would be too hot for us. As I mentioned before we will probably go there for at least a couple of days this August. Even if we don't care for the heat it shouldn't be too horrible this once and at least then we definitely know it isn't something we would use regularly.

Right now I have put together the following short-list:

Prefered:
Ocean Pointe, Shadow Ridge/DSV , Manor Club
Again, the desert properties depend on how we like it when we actually visit and which season to buy remains a problem. Ocean Pointe seems to have really high mfs. It is probably also expensive to buy - not sure what the seasons are there? Manor Club sounds interesting but again not sure about purchase cost.

Possible:
Timber Lodge or Beach Place

Maybes:
Grand Chateau (pretty much only for trading) or Branson

I have still kept out the Orlando properties but will think about that some more.

If anyone has some additional information about the above resorts (purchase cost/likelihood to find on ebay/trading power/general) I would very much appreciate it!


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## dougp26364 (Jul 25, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> Thanks so much for taking the time for such a detailed analysis!
> 
> Put like that it seems clear enough BUT the problem is I can't book an II getaway because I am not a timeshare owner. So I have to buy some timeshare (and pay the mfs that come with it) in order to get to scenario 2.
> 
> ...



If you purchased a platinum DSV week, my bet is it would be easy enough to lock-off the unit and trade back into a summer week. Yes it would increase you costs but, the increase in exchange power would be well worth it IMHO. 

The only experience I have with trading back in scenario's would be with our Ocean Pointe unit. It's very easy for me to do a search using our studio unit to see opportunities to exchange back into Ocean Pointe during the summer months. 

I would not expect DSV to be difficult to trade back into during the summer. the desert is a hot dry place and there are a lot of units to fill. When wanting to travel to you're home resort I think trading back in would be as easy as falling of a log and when wanting to trade out, having the platinum week should make exchanges to tougher locations that much easier. Plus, platinum weeks should be more desirable (easier to sell) and have a higher resale value.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 25, 2012)

You have a good list and I think you have received a lot of valuable insider information.  Honestly, any resort in the United States should be a pretty easy trade in late August or early September.  That is back to school time, here and along the East Coast, that is Hurricane season.  Any Marriott deposit should get your desired trade, so I wouldn't buy an expenisve Marriott week, both in terms of buy in costs and ongoing maint fees.

The marriott in vegas is nice becuase the 3 bedroom locks off into a one bedroom and two bedroom.  With II, the size of your deposit matters a lot.  A studio often doesn't pull larger size units during peak times, whereas a one bedroom usually pulls 2 bedrooms, even during peak seasons/weeks.  The down side to the Vegas property are the buy in costs which will probably cost upwards of 5k - 7k for a 3 bedroom (but I could be way off on this price) and the dues, which are close to $1,700 a year and will only go up by about $100 a year.

Beefnot gives some good numbers to think about and with all the advice others have given you, there is a lot to take in.

Regardless of what you buy and when you choose to buy into the system (if ever), I think you will really like it.  Trading is so uncertain and is a game best learned by doing.  All the advice in the world will not even come close to your actual experiences.  

If you stick to your plan of traveling in late August and/or early September, you should get some great trades.  It's when/if you decide summer or holidays work better that you will run into problems more time than not if you do not own one of the more expensive Marriotts -- and even then you will still have problems.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 25, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> You have a good list and I think you have received a lot of valuable insider information.  Honestly, any resort in the United States should be a pretty easy trade in late August or early September.  That is back to school time, here and along the East Coast, that is Hurricane season.  Any Marriott deposit should get your desired trade, so I wouldn't buy an expenisve Marriott week, both in terms of buy in costs and ongoing maint fees.
> 
> The marriott in vegas is nice becuase the 3 bedroom locks off into a one bedroom and two bedroom.  With II, the size of your deposit matters a lot.  A studio often doesn't pull larger size units during peak times, whereas a one bedroom usually pulls 2 bedrooms, even during peak seasons/weeks.  The down side to the Vegas property are the buy in costs which will probably cost upwards of 5k - 7k for a 3 bedroom (but I could be way off on this price) and the dues, *which are close to $1,700 a year and will only go up by about $100 a year.
> *
> ...



FWIW, in 2006 the 3 bedroom MF's was $1,130.80. At that time there was still a developer subsidy of $211.56. Without the subsidy the MF would have been $1,342.36. 

MF's for 2012 $1,635.56. The increase in fee's from 2006 to 2012 would be $293.20 or  $48.86/year average if you take into account the initial fee's were reduced significantly by the developer subsidy. 

Grand Chateau has a stagering reserve funding of $435/year per 3 bedroom unit. For the life of me I can't explain why a resort that lacks the extensive amenities of other Marriott resorts would require a cash reserve so high.


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## hcarman (Jul 25, 2012)

With the exception of the maintenance fees, I would suggest buying a Silver Season at Ocean Pointe - or possibly one of the other South Florida Marriott properties.  Silver Season should be the time the OP is looking for (September/end of August).  And, being in the Florida Club it is easy enough to trade into some Orlando properties, the Panhandle, and Fort Lauderdale - I believe.  It also trades very well in Interval - AC is often offered for a full or master unit trade.

My Mom owns Silver - we have been told by several folks - Marriott and non-Marriott - that Silver at Ocean Pointe is one of the better deals out there.  Includes some time in May and early June - and then the fall/early winter.  Don't remember whether Thanksgiving is included?

I don't know where overseas the OP lives - but if it is Europe, the East Coast would be an easier trip.

Just a thought.................but, then there are maintenance fees that are over 1000.


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## hcarman (Jul 25, 2012)

Just a follow up on my previous - Ocean Pointe is a great resort for kids as well.  It is pretty extensive (a lot of units spread out over the property) and they have a lot of activities for both kids and adults.  The surrounding area also has a lot of activities.

The other thing we hear about Ocean Pointe - it is one of the highest owner occupied resorts in the Marriott system - so they really listen to comments and suggestions the owners have.  Recently put in a mini golf course, shuffle board, and a water play area.


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## jont (Jul 25, 2012)

hcarman said:


> Just a follow up on my previous - Ocean Pointe is a great resort for kids as well.  It is pretty extensive (a lot of units spread out over the property) and they have a lot of activities for both kids and adults.  The surrounding area also has a lot of activities.
> 
> The other thing we hear about Ocean Pointe - it is one of the highest owner occupied resorts in the Marriott system - so they really listen to comments and suggestions the owners have.  Recently put in a mini golf course, shuffle board, and a water play area.



Ocean Pointe is a great resort! I've been there 4x in the past 2 years. Trying to get there for this upcoming Christmas. I wished I owned there. Late August thru early September is a good time to go as most kids are back in school.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks again - things are getting clearer!

I guess the Palm Springs timeshares really won't work well for us due to the way the seasons are set up.

So right now the best choices for us seem to be:

Ocean Pointe, Manor Club, and Willow Ridge (with Grand Chateau and Beach Place as possible alternatives)

I could see us using Ocean Pointe fairly regularly, Manor Club probably a bit less, and Willow Ridge rarely.

Willow Ridge would probably be cheapest (both mf and purchase). I haven't found much information about prices for Manor Club yet. Ocean Pointe has high mfs and the purchase price is higher than for Willow Ridge.

Does anyone know how the trading power of a platinum Willow Ridge and a silver Ocean Pointe would compare? Also, how does exchanging work with Marriott - would I reserve a week to deposit or does Marriott choose? Also, could someone point me towards a calendar that shows how the weeks correspond to a regular calendear (i.e. when week 35 for example is)? It seems every timeshare company uses their own version...


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## mstoyanov (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi,

Yes I had identical search with 2BR SDO gold plus [1-52 floater] and 3BR Worldmark and WM got the trade and SDO did not.
I also have true platinum SDO [1-21, 50-52 floater] but I didn't had a chance to try it for identical searches. 
When I am searching for something more difficult I often run these identical searches as I own many different resort chains and units to try to compare them. It costs you nothing since when you cancel the redundant search you get your trade fee back. And difficult trades are usually not fulfilled by bulk banks. The only risk in doing this is if you get a match on both searches and forget to cancel the second one but usually for difficult trades I can always find a friend that will cover the cost of such unit and use it. In fact my friends are extremely happy if I get such extra unit.

I think the reason why 3BR WM out trades 2BR SDO 1-52 floater is that II put more emphasis on the unit size. It is definitely the other way in RCI where season trumps unit size but in RCI SDO gets mediocre TPU assignments due to stupid arrangement between Starwood and RCI. WM arrangement with RCI is much better - you can exchange for any unit available in RCI for a fixed amount of points. Basically you always have enough TPU with Worldmark even if it is Manhattan Club unit that is otherwise valued 60 TPU. You still exchange for it as a 1BR with the same points cost as 1BR in Podunk will cost you. Of course this is disadvantage for WM when trading for off season units in RCI - in this case you are overpaying with credits (except for 45 day flex trade) but that is why for such trades I use fixed weeks in prime season lower quality resorts (they get high TPU assignment for low MFs).




sptung said:


> Are you saying that you use a 2BR SDO and a 3BR Worldmark to search for the same 2BR property in an ongoing search? It sounds like apple and orange.  Also, is your SDO a platinum week?
> 
> I know this thread is about Marriott but I am curious about the comparison that you have highlighted here.


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## Beefnot (Jul 25, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> Also, could someone point me towards a calendar that shows how the weeks correspond to a regular calendear (i.e. when week 35 for example is)? It seems every timeshare company uses their own version...



Click here. 

Got it from the Tug2 timeshare resources page.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 25, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> ... Does anyone know how the trading power of a platinum Willow Ridge and a silver Ocean Pointe would compare? Also, how does exchanging work with Marriott - would I reserve a week to deposit or does Marriott choose? Also, could someone point me towards a calendar that shows how the weeks correspond to a regular calendear (i.e. when week 35 for example is)? It seems every timeshare company uses their own version...



Don't know how the two compare for trading power.  With Marriotts, yes, you choose what to reserve and deposit in II; most people try to book whichever weeks are assigned the highest TDI value in II.  This link is TUGger dioxide45's compilation of Marriott resort calendars.


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## mstoyanov (Jul 25, 2012)

Trade power of platinum Willow Ridge will be higher than silver season in Ocean Pointe but do not underestimate the value of having something to use without the trade. If you plan to use Ocean Pointe during silver season more than 30% of the time I would advise you to get this instead of Willow Ridge.
Trading rules changes quite frequently and lately many of the good exchanges in Marriott are in the flex change season in which finding a cheap airfare will be difficult (except if you can get such flex-change in Europe resorts that are closer to you). And the price of air is probably an order of magnitude higher than cost of lodging.  
If you can book unit where you want to go an year in advance you have a whole year to hunt for bargain prices on tickets. I am not even sure if owning is a good idea for you. I would think that in your case you may be better renting. Off season weeks can be often rented for almost the MFs (sometimes even less) and renting is much more flexible. If you concentrate on finding the cheapest airfare then you should be able to rent exactly the dates you find cheap air for without the risks and hassle of ownership and exchanges.
Exchanging works best for people with good flexibility (and works great for resorts in driving distance).



Vacationsarefun said:


> Thanks again - things are getting clearer!
> 
> I guess the Palm Springs timeshares really won't work well for us due to the way the seasons are set up.
> 
> ...


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## dougp26364 (Jul 25, 2012)

FWIW, Ocean Pointe Gold season is the summer months of June, July an August. Silver season encompasses the month of May, Sept, Oct, Nov and the first two weeks of December. Silver season does not work so well if you have to travel during the months of June, July and August.

On the other hand, I can usually see 1 and 2 bedroom units during the summer months using my studio lockoff section of our 3 bedroom silver season unit. Marriott did about as poor of a job of judging the seasons at Ocean Pointe as could be done. All one has to do is compare Ocean Pointe's seasons to Oceana Palms seasons to see the adjustments Marriott made. Oceana Palm is a short 1 mile walk up the beach from Ocean Pointe. Once can also look at the point values for different weeks on the DC points chart. Many of the silver season weeks require more points than the gold season weeks.

We have only exchanged our lock-off unit but, when doing online searches I've always been pleased with what I could find. I don't know that I'd give my whole hearted recomendation to purchase this particular season if a person wants to use it heavily for exchanges. 

Also keep in mind that when using the Florida Club it's season for season (silver for silver, gold for gold, platinum for platinum). While silver season may be a great time to go to Ocean Pointe the silver season at other resorts aren't always as desirable. I would look very closely to see what matched up and what doesn't before jumping on that band wagon.

We own both Grand Chateau and Ocean Pointe. It's easier for us to exchange our Grand Chateau week into Ocean Pointe silver season than it is to exchange our Ocean Pointe silver season into Grand Chateau. If you're looking at trade power, my opinion is you'll get the best bang for your buck with the Grand Chateau 3 bedroom unit.

We also own a non-Marriott in Branson, MO. It trades surprisingly well so long as we elect a summer week but, it doesn't out trade Grand Chateau. Of course, the resort we own is nowhere near Marriott quality or demand. Keep in mind that there isn't an international airport near Branson's Willow Ridge. The closest would probably be either Chicago or Dallas.


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## dougp26364 (Jul 25, 2012)

mstoyanov said:


> *Trade power of platinum Willow Ridge will be higher than silver season in Ocean Pointe* but do not underestimate the value of having something to use without the trade. If you plan to use Ocean Pointe during silver season more than 30% of the time I would advise you to get this instead of Willow Ridge.
> Trading rules changes quite frequently and lately many of the good exchanges in Marriott are in the flex change season in which finding a cheap airfare will be difficult (except if you can get such flex-change in Europe resorts that are closer to you). And the price of air is probably an order of magnitude higher than cost of lodging.
> If you can book unit where you want to go an year in advance you have a whole year to hunt for bargain prices on tickets. I am not even sure if owning is a good idea for you. I would think that in your case you may be better renting. Off season weeks can be often rented for almost the MFs (sometimes even less) and renting is much more flexible. If you concentrate on finding the cheapest airfare then you should be able to rent exactly the dates you find cheap air for without the risks and hassle of ownership and exchanges.
> Exchanging works best for people with good flexibility (and works great for resorts in driving distance).



I'm not sure I'd bet money on that ( you could be right but, reasoning Plat. out trades silver might not work between these two resorts). I've been amazed at how well silver season Ocean Pointe weeks exchange. It's not hard for us to get a 1 or 2 bedroom Willow Ridge Lodge unit with our studio unit from Ocean Pointe. That's even allowing Marriott to choose the week to deposit rather than trying to get the highest TDI week available. Exchanges using our studio silver season Ocean Pointe week have been easy enough I've been just allowing Marriott to pick the week. It hasn't mattered.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 25, 2012)

Trade power is tough to figure out, especially when the Marriott preference is in play.  II will tell you it doesn't care what season your week is rated within the Marriott system.  What II cares about is their trade demand index.  In the end having Marriott preference over other exchanges is the most valuable reason for owning any marriott week.

...and on the flip side of what Doug posted, I booked 4th of July week 2012 with my platinum Willowridge week and locked it off.  I then used the studio portion to book a one bedroom for 4th of July week at Ocean Pointe and with the one bedroom portion of my my Willowridge deposit, I booked a two bedroom at Ocean Pointe for 4th of July week.  

With the one bedroom portion of my 2011 Willowridge deposit (a late July 2011deposit) I booked Easter week 2012 at SurfWatch in a 2 bedroom.  With the studio portion of my 2011 Willowridge deposit, I booked a 2 bedroom at the new Planet Hollywood in Vegas back in May of 2011.  So, the trade power of a Willowridge week is very good, probably even great, but I do not have much to compare it against and trading power within II always changes.


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## mstoyanov (Jul 25, 2012)

I am almost willing to bet money on this one even though I haven't tried it myself as I don't own Willow Ridge. 
Ironically I just got a 3BR silver Ocean Pointe OF unit (it showed in my-vacation club this week) as a package deal with another Marriott that I really needed but in my previous trade experience the only valuable week for me in that season will be Thanksgiving week and so far I have exchanged for that week several times without Marriott priority so I will probably get rid of the unit soon. My strong suspicion is that 4th of July in Willow Ridge will out trade with no problem equal size Ocean Pointe Thanksgiving week as 4th of July week is very strong trader for summer locations (even overbuilt ones). In fact judging by my rental experience even Thanksgiving week in Grande Vista will probably out trade Thanksgiving week in Ocean Pointe.
Real travel demand for southern Florida starts with snowbirds coming at or after Christmas.





dougp26364 said:


> I'm not sure I'd bet money on that ( you could be right but, reasoning Plat. out trades silver might not work between these two resorts). I've been amazed at how well silver season Ocean Pointe weeks exchange. It's not hard for us to get a 1 or 2 bedroom Willow Ridge Lodge unit with our studio unit from Ocean Pointe. That's even allowing Marriott to choose the week to deposit rather than trying to get the highest TDI week available. Exchanges using our studio silver season Ocean Pointe week have been easy enough I've been just allowing Marriott to pick the week. It hasn't mattered.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 25, 2012)

And I am not trying to belittle Ocean Pointe Silver or Doug's comments.  He has probably forgotten more about timesharing than I will ever learn.

I meant to add something more about buying a platinum week verses a silver or bronze.  When I buy a timeshare I want to own something I know I can at least give away when the time comes without having to worry about paying the dues for years on end while I try to unload it.  I am never buying a timeshare to make money, but a huge factor in my purchase decision is how easy will it be to unload when the time comes.

This is my own oppinion but I believe there will always be a market for platinum Marriott weeks, even if that market meand a free price tag.  I'm confident that if I offered my platinum Willowridge week for free here on tug, I would have many people intrested in that and then I wouldn't have to worry about the dues come January.  Giving away for free, a silver or bronze Marriott week may not be so easy.  Also, if Marriott ever buys back units or takes units back via ROFR, my bet is they will take platinum weeks first, thus making those weeks more valuable.  

I just think buying a platinum resale week is a safe bet when buying into Marriott.  Best trade power, most valued week at whatever resort you are buying into and you should never be stuck with the timeshare, should you not want it any longer.


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## mstoyanov (Jul 25, 2012)

You should not hung too much on the name of the season. Currently silver 2BR Ocean Pointe sells for about the same as 2BR Plat Willow Ridge on EBay. One reason for this is that silver season in OP is more like a typical gold season in many other Marriott resorts. 
The reason why these both sells for about equal price is that as of this moment it is difficult to rent either plat Willow Ridge or silver Ocean Pointe for much (anything) above MFs.
Plat Willow Ridge has higher trade power but is in an overbuild location visited mostly by people that can not afford high rental prices (or MFs).
Ocean Pointe is better oceanfront resort but that is negated by lower demand during silver season and higher MFs.
If MFs of Willow Ridge tomorrow became equal to Ocean Pointe I am willing to bet with you that it will be more difficult to sell (get rid of) platinum Willow Ridge than silver Ocean Pointe.
So this should not be part of the equation as we have no idea what is going to happen in the future. A good reason to chose one or another will be distance to the buyer or plans to use the actual resort.



jdunn1 said:


> And I am not trying to belittle Ocean Pointe Silver or Doug's comments.  He has probably forgotten more about timesharing than I will ever learn.
> 
> I meant to add something more about buying a platinum week verses a silver or bronze.  When I buy a timeshare I want to own something I know I can at least give away when the time comes without having to worry about paying the dues for years on end while I try to unload it.  I am never buying a timeshare to make money, but a huge factor in my purchase decision is how easy will it be to unload when the time comes.
> 
> ...


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## dougp26364 (Jul 25, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> Trade power is tough to figure out, especially when the Marriott preference is in play.  II will tell you it doesn't care what season your week is rated within the Marriott system.  What II cares about is their trade demand index.  In the end having Marriott preference over other exchanges is the most valuable reason for owning any marriott week.
> 
> *...and on the flip side of what Doug posted, I booked 4th of July week 2012 with my platinum Willowridge week and locked it off.  I then used the studio portion to book a one bedroom for 4th of July week at Ocean Pointe and with the one bedroom portion of my my Willowridge deposit, I booked a two bedroom at Ocean Pointe for 4th of July week.
> *
> With the one bedroom portion of my 2011 Willowridge deposit (a late July 2011deposit) I booked Easter week 2012 at SurfWatch in a 2 bedroom.  With the studio portion of my 2011 Willowridge deposit, I booked a 2 bedroom at the new Planet Hollywood in Vegas back in May of 2011.  So, the trade power of a Willowridge week is very good, probably even great, but I do not have much to compare it against and trading power within II always changes.



Branson does trade well. I've seen that with my non-Marriott week at a tiny non-discript resort.

OTOH, I think Marriott over valued the gold season at Ocean Pointe and under valued the silver season. Silver season really appears to trade better than gold for Ocean Pointe. I can routinely see upsize trades in gold season using my silver season studio unit.

For this reason, I don't believe Ocean Pointe gold season would be a good choice if the OP is wanting to trade and, is wanting to own a season in which they can travel. Owning a silver season week would involve the risk and expense of always wanting to trade into a different season.

Branson isn't a bad choice but, is it the best choice for exchanging and having an ownership that the OP can reach reasonably easily? Branson's closest airport is the tiny privately owned airport just outside of Branson. Next would be Springfield, which is a regional airport. St. Louis might have an international terminal but I don't believe there are many, if any, internaltional flights. I don't believe Kansas City's airport has international flights. The closest international airports would be Chicago and Dallas. Both are considerable drives after an transatlantic or transpacific flight. 

If being near an international airport is a must, then S. Florida, California, Washington DC and Las Vegas appear to be the logical airports. That would leave Newport Coast, Desert Springs, Manor Club, Oceana Palms, Ocean Point, Beachplace Towers and Villa's at Doral  as the logical ownership possiblities (I'm sure I've left out an airport and other timeshares). 

Of these Manor Club is probably the most economical. The FL resorts maybe don't have the trade power if they want to own a summer week. Grand Chateau is 100% platinum so they can choose any week to exchange but, staying in Vegas in the summer might be akin to spending a weeks vacation on the face of the sun. Desert Springs would suffer the same heat issues as Vegas. A Newport Coast platinum week might be the choice based on the process of elemination. Platinum season encompasses the summer months, platinum season should trade very well and Newport coast is near the international airport in LA. The only other choice would be Williamsburg, which I believe has a summer season that is platinum, is near an international airport in Washington, trades well and, has the bonus of being more affordable than Newport Coast.

I think I just talked myself into recommending Manor Club after all that thought process.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 25, 2012)

I'll take platinum over silver every day of the week.  Ocean Pointe dues are sky high for some reason while Willowridge is the lowest in the Marriott system.  It will take a long while (and never is more like it) for Willowridge to have more expensive dues that Ocean Pointe.

I can't immagine I will ever visit Willowridge, but only becuase it is a 12 hour drive from my home.  I hope to visit Ocean Pointe many more times, though.

Renting is never my goal, so no comments from me, there.  





mstoyanov said:


> You should not hung too much on the name of the season. Currently silver 2BR Ocean Pointe sells for about the same as 2BR Plat Willow Ridge on EBay. One reason for this is that silver season in OP is more like a typical gold season in many other Marriott resorts.
> The reason why these both sells for about equal price is that as of this moment it is difficult to rent either plat Willow Ridge or silver Ocean Pointe for much (anything) above MFs.
> Plat Willow Ridge has higher trade power but is in an overbuild location visited mostly by people that can not afford high rental prices (or MFs).
> Ocean Pointe is better oceanfront resort but that is negated by lower demand during silver season and higher MFs.
> ...


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## dougp26364 (Jul 26, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> I'll take platinum over silver every day of the week.  Ocean Pointe dues are sky high for some reason while Willowridge is the lowest in the Marriott system.  It will take a long while (and never is more like it) for Willowridge to have more expensive dues that Ocean Pointe.
> 
> I can't immagine I will ever visit Willowridge, but only becuase it is a 12 hour drive from my home.  I hope to visit Ocean Pointe many more times, though.
> 
> Renting is never my goal, so no comments from me, there.



I doubt Willow Ridge will ever approach the MF's of Ocean Pointe. If for no other reason property taxes and insurance costs in Florida are substantially higher than in Branson, MO. 

Willow Ridge could suffer from escalating MF's depending on what the HOA thinks it needs to do with cash reserves. One of the statements Marriott made when they killed the Horizons brand was those two resorts would be brought up to typical MVCI standards. That would mean some uplanned upgrades to the unit's furnishings which, in turn would upset the apple cart for cash reserve funding calculations. 

So far it hasn't appeared to make a difference. I'm not certain that it ever will but, it's something to keep in the back of the mind. 

Willow Ridge is a great resort. Probably the best in Branson as far as I.I. affiliated resorts go. I would love to see them complete at least two more buildings. I don't believe we'll ever see the project completed as proposed.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 26, 2012)

Again thanks for all the info and advice!

I will have to think about it a bit more.

Willow Ridge seems an excellent choice as far as cost/trading is concerned. But I am a bit leery about buying there as I would have to exchange. I actually would love to visit Branson sometime but as others have mentioned it is just too remote for us to be a realistic destination on a regular basis.

Ocean Pointe sounds great and we would probably use it fairly regularly and silver season should work. Unfortunately, the mf are quite high....

I am kind of back to considering Shadow Ridge. Maybe if I got a gold season... I could use it to primarily exchange but if we had to we could use it.

At this point Manor Club does seem a pretty good choice. It is fairly easy to reach, there are many interesting things nearby and mf seem reasonable. Not quite sure about purchase cost though...

I will definitely keep an eye on ebay to get a better idea about how much these properties run!


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## jont (Jul 26, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> At this point Manor Club does seem a pretty good choice. It is fairly easy to reach, there are many interesting things nearby and mf seem reasonable. Not quite sure about purchase cost though...
> 
> I will definitely keep an eye on ebay to get a better idea about how much these properties run!



I'm not an expert on this, but I've read here that the inventory on ebay jumps up at the end of the year when maintenance fees are coming up for the next year. You may also want to check out the TUG market place for TS sales. Be sure to remember that Manor Club has Full 2BRs and Lock-offs (sequel). Good Luck. Whichever marriott you choose, I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 26, 2012)

I'm not currently a Marriott owner, but I'm also considering buying a unit so this thread caught my attention.  

I personally would never buy a Marriott resort in an over-populated area because I'm not at all convinced those weeks are necessarily even pulling much better Marriott trades than my non-Marriott, non-brand name (not even gold crown resorts) units pull. The properties we own are nothing special, but they are peak season and so II always gives ACs for them.  This year we used one of the ACs to confirm a July 4th week at Marriott Aruba Ocean Club. Isn't that gold season, and a holiday no less?  Granted it was a studio, but that's not even our real exchange, it was just an AC...  We see plenty of 2BR / even 3 BR exchanges with my our bedroom week at Marriott properties as long as it's not prime season over school break. Last year we exchanged our 1 BR for a 2 BR at Marriott Fairway Villas over Christmas/New Year's (gold week).     

What is interesting to me is that nobody mentioned the Park City resorts. Why not?  Low maintenance fees (particularly the Mountainside resort), lock out units, and SLC is an easy to access international airport within 30-35 minutes drive. I'd love to own a Platinum week there.  I know they are expensive, but we love to ski and I'm convinced this is the one timeshare on the market that isn't necessary a longterm financial loss outside of personal enjoyment (even though the units are expensive to buy, they seem to rent for a lot of money on Redweek).


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## jont (Jul 26, 2012)

bonk2boy said:


> What is interesting to me is that nobody mentioned the Park City resorts. Why not?  Low maintenance fees (particularly the Mountainside resort), lock out units, and SLC is an easy to access international airport within 30-35 minutes drive. I'd love to own a Platinum week there.  I know they are expensive, but we love to ski and I'm convinced this is the one timeshare on the market that isn't necessary a longterm financial loss outside of personal enjoyment (even though the units are expensive to buy, they seem to rent for a lot of money on Redweek).



I didn't think they were lock off units but I could be wrong. The OP was looking for lock off units.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 26, 2012)

You will pay between 15k - 20k for a Marriott Utah ski week.  The OP was looking for something near free.  You will pay about the same, maybe a little more for the Marriott summer Carolina weeks and I don't follow any other kind of weeks to know their price.

Unless you have a Marriott deposit and can see the inventory under preference then you have no idea what you are missing.  Marriott is no different than Starwood and all the great inventory goes to owners.  What you and me (with my WM deposits) see are weeks old left overs.  I only travel during peak times so the Marriott preference is very important.  For someone without kids or younger kids, traveling off season will net great trades.

Most timeshares are in over populated areas.  What makes the difference is season.  The buy where you want to go rule is great and certainely applies for the expensive timeshares and is what I think you are getting at.  A lot of people can afford yearly dues but are not comfortable forking out upwards of 10k - 20k for a luxury purchase.  Makes perfect sense to me to buy the cheapest platinum week in those instances and that means Willowridge or the desert or Williamsburg or Orlando, etc...

I would never buy a timeshare that wasn't a name brand.  Sure you can get a cheap timeshare, even a cheap timeshare with dues closer to $500 a year that trades for the stuff you are seeing right now.  If I am going to spend $1k a year on dues for each of my timeshare weeks, I had better be getting inventory that others can't get.  When you own a Marriott or Starwood, you are getting inventory that others outside whatever system you buy into can't get.  Of equal importance to me is being able to sell my timeshare when I am done. I don't need to make money of my purchases, but I would like to get whatever I paid for them and not have to wait for years to give them away and then pay dues for the new owner, etc...  If you buy a platinum Marriott week at one of the overbuilt Marriott locations, today, you are pretty much certain to be able to sell them a year or years down the road for what you paid for them now and you won't have to wait very long, either.  When you buy a Marriott in less than platinum season, your sale becomes harder.






bonk2boy said:


> I'm not currently a Marriott owner, but I'm also considering buying a unit so this thread caught my attention.
> 
> I personally would never buy a Marriott resort in an over-populated area because I'm not at all convinced those weeks are necessarily even pulling much better Marriott trades than my non-Marriott, non-brand name (not even gold crown resorts) units pull. The properties we own are nothing special, but they are peak season and so II always gives ACs for them.  This year we used one of the ACs to confirm a July 4th week at Marriott Aruba Ocean Club. Isn't that gold season, and a holiday no less?  Granted it was a studio, but that's not even our real exchange, it was just an AC...  We see plenty of 2BR / even 3 BR exchanges with my our bedroom week at Marriott properties as long as it's not prime season over school break. Last year we exchanged our 1 BR for a 2 BR at Marriott Fairway Villas over Christmas/New Year's (gold week).
> 
> What is interesting to me is that nobody mentioned the Park City resorts. Why not?  Low maintenance fees (particularly the Mountainside resort), lock out units, and SLC is an easy to access international airport within 30-35 minutes drive. I'd love to own a Platinum week there.  I know they are expensive, but we love to ski and I'm convinced this is the one timeshare on the market that isn't necessary a longterm financial loss outside of personal enjoyment (even though the units are expensive to buy, they seem to rent for a lot of money on Redweek).


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 26, 2012)

I'm 99% certain that the MOU units are lock-offs. We stayed in one the week after Thanksgiving a few years ago.  Had a conference for work in SLC anyway, so it was worth the chance for us with the weather since my flight didn't cost anything (was covered by work as was the car rental).  We got lucky and there was a big snow storm the week before we went.  Brought friends with us and they stayed in the lock out part - amazing trip.  That resort is awesome.  

IMO there is no other ski resorts like it with stable MFs. The comparable Colorado properties (Hyatt, etc.) are through the roof in MF costs. The Marriott Timberlodge has a lot higher maintenance fees.   Also maybe I'm being too fussy - but it's not really ski in / ski out the way the Mountainside is (you have to take a 15ish min gondola that leaves you off in a place that requires either a long uphill trek to the lift or quite a bit of poling).   With MOU, you can easily go back to your unit for lunch.  With Timberlodge it's a big pain to do this.  

My biggest reservation with buying MOU is that it's expensive and I worry that unless I were to buy 2 weeks it may be hard to reserve a good ski week.  For instance, I'm guessing that the Sundance Film Festival weeks disappear in the 13 month preference period.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 26, 2012)

> You will pay between 15k - 20k for a Marriott Utah ski week. The OP was looking for something near free. You will pay about the same, maybe a little more for the Marriott summer Carolina weeks and I don't follow any other kind of weeks to know their price.



Actually, neither are that really that much.  That's just the list price.  And even still, as an example, if you check redweek, Marriott OceanWatch currently has a listing for $10,995 right now (IMO who the heck cares if it's Garden view)?  MOU is a bit more, but anyone who pays 20K is paying too much when the list price on some of the high ball websites is only 17-18K.  


```
Unless you have a Marriott deposit and can see the inventory under preference then you have no idea what you are missing. Marriott is no different than Starwood and all the great inventory goes to owners. What you and me (with my WM deposits) see are weeks old left overs. I only travel during peak times so the Marriott preference is very important. For someone without kids or younger kids, traveling off season will net great trades.
```

Well you do get an idea from the distressed forum... By the way, the kids are off from school in the summer and Aruba is wonderfully comfortable at that time of year because of the trade winds (the most underrated time to go there IMO). We're from NYC and it was way hotter back home than it was in Aruba.  We purchased a bigger unit on redweek in addition to the studio so we could all go as a family.  It was very cheap $900 for the week plus the studio AC fee for the other unit).



> Most timeshares are in over populated areas. What makes the difference is season. The buy where you want to go rule is great and certainely applies for the expensive timeshares and is what I think you are getting at. A lot of people can afford yearly dues but are not comfortable forking out upwards of 10k - 20k for a luxury purchase. Makes perfect sense to me to buy the cheapest platinum week in those instances and that means Willowridge or the desert or Williamsburg or Orlando, etc...



But the location does matter for trade power.  So does the season.  We have Easter week fairly often (or at least it's someone's break).  Beachfront in the Caribbean gets a decent enough exchange even though the property isn't so nice.  But the reason I wouldn't buy in places like Orlando is because I know that I can buy a 2BR getaway there pretty much all year for a couple hundred dollars at a beatiful Marriott property.  That person who gave the example of exchanges with the $1700 MFs for a Las Vegas Mariott exchanges could probably have purchased all 3 of those trades as II getaways for much less than $1700 (none of those were really high demand properties at peak time).         



> I would never buy a timeshare that wasn't a name brand. Sure you can get a cheap timeshare, even a cheap timeshare with dues closer to $500 a year that trades for the stuff you are seeing right now.



I wouldn't either.  Dumb mistake my parents made a long time ago - fortunately it was only a 30 year RTU so it's almost done.  No need to take a hit paying someone to take it from us (i.e. it may sell for a dollar but only if we paid the ridiculous transfer fees, closing costs, etc.)  After this experience, I personally wouldn't look to buy something that couldn't easily be rented for an amount comfortably above my maintenance.  That's my own definition of selling value. A MOU 2 BDR renting for $1500 during prime ski season would rent almost instantly on redweek.  Nobody would rent that low but that's 50% more than the maintenance (i.e. unless your greedy, your property is rentable if you decide not to use it or if you want to go to a non-timeshare place one year and use the rental income to pay for it).



> If I am going to spend $1k a year on dues for each of my timeshare weeks, I had better be getting inventory that others can't get. When you own a Marriott or Starwood, you are getting inventory that others outside whatever system you buy into can't get.



If that's really true, it's a fair point.  But you already said your Branson week can't pull South Carolina beach summer weeks.  What about winter ski weeks in Park City?  I'm guessing not.  Aruba over Easter / February break?  Probably not.  We took an Ocean Pointe studio over Easter week this year (just 2 of us) for our 1 BR and I'm guessing you can probably get a 1 BR there for yours over the holiday.  A better deal for sure (but I accknowledged I would never buy the one we have again...)      



> If you buy a platinum Marriott week at one of the overbuilt Marriott locations, today, you are pretty much certain to be able to sell them a year or years down the road for what you paid for them now and you won't have to wait very long, either. When you buy a Marriott in less than platinum season, your sale becomes harder.



Just my opinion, but I bet one of these days the Orlando properties will become difficult to sell.


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## Beefnot (Jul 26, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> I would never buy a timeshare that wasn't a name brand.  Sure you can get a cheap timeshare, even a cheap timeshare with dues closer to $500 a year that trades for the stuff you are seeing right now.  If I am going to spend $1k a year on dues for each of my timeshare weeks, I had better be getting inventory that others can't get.  When you own a Marriott or Starwood, you are getting inventory that others outside whatever system you buy into can't get.  Of equal importance to me is being able to sell my timeshare when I am done. I don't need to make money of my purchases, but I would like to get whatever I paid for them and not have to wait for years to give them away and then pay dues for the new owner, etc...  If you buy a platinum Marriott week at one of the overbuilt Marriott locations, today, you are pretty much certain to be able to sell them a year or years down the road for what you paid for them now and you won't have to wait very long, either.  When you buy a Marriott in less than platinum season, your sale becomes harder.



This is sound advice for the risk averse.  This is also part of the rationale behind people who buy brands in other walks of life.  There is that perception of dependable quality and reputation. And with timeshares, that will likely extend to ability to resell if and when the time comes.  

However, if one is slightly risk taking and financially shrewd, they may also discover that the savings enjoyed over time by purchasing a quality no-name may far exceed what they have to pay offload it when the time comes.



jdunn1 said:


> Unless you have a Marriott deposit and can see the inventory under preference then you have no idea what you are missing. Marriott is no different than Starwood and all the great inventory goes to owners. What you and me (with my WM deposits) see are weeks old left overs. I only travel during peak times so the Marriott preference is very important. For someone without kids or younger kids, traveling off season will net great trades.



I see the most compelling rationale to buy brand is for exchanging.  The internal preference for peak season seems to be very powerful by all accounts.  I haven't tried yet, but until I'm able to pull an ongoing request for NCV or MGO or MOC in summer with my off-brand timeshares, I will acknowledge that this is what makes having the brand make sense in my mind.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 26, 2012)

> I see the most compelling rationale to buy brand is for exchanging. The internal preference for peak season seems to be very powerful by all accounts. I haven't tried yet, but until I'm able to pull an ongoing request for NCV or MGO or MOC in summer with my off-brand timeshares, I will acknowledge that this is what makes having the brand make sense in my mind.



Are you saying that in contrast a platinum Orlando or Branson week with Marriott preference (as opposed to the non-Marriott) is going to have a decent chance to pull these exchanges?  If so, why is there another current string about  OceanWatch platinum owners having trouble getting true summer weeks during their own season (I know you mentioned the Grande but I would think those have similar desirability levels).  That string has me all but convinced not to buy Marriott unless I'm committed to buy two so I can use the 13 month preference.  

Going back to the original poster, for someone who is looking to stay in Desert Springs, Ocean Point, and Orlando during the summer months, I really don't believe it's necessary to be a Marriott owner.  I say this based on the fact that during the summer using our non-Marriott 1 BR (not even silver rated) exchange I consistently see plenty of online availablity for 2 BR (and even 3 BR) Marriott exchanges in all of these places.  I'm not suggesting my parents made a smart decision in their purchase.  The maintence fees on their place are too high.  The point I'm making is there are lots of Gold rated places in desirable low maintenance areas like South Carolina where a lock-out summer week would cost less than or about the same as buying an Orlando or Branson summer week at a Marriott with much lower maintenence.  Some (such as the Spinnaker properties) trade both RCI and II.  

As for the WM suggestion, that concept of being able to buy points to confirm as many units or trades as you want at varying sizes sounds very interesting to me.  I had no idea about that feature and will look into that for when the time comes to buy.  That's a huge benefit to have - I just wish the WM properties were more appealing to us (their west coast ski properties aren't ski-in / ski-out which is a priority to us if we travel for a ski trip) and there isn't much of a selection of resorts on the east coast.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 26, 2012)

I am very risk adverse when it comes to timeshares -- and houses-- and probably lots of other things.  I know some people look at timeshares as an investment and some people do still make good money off them or buy the off brand resorts and are perfectly happy with the trades they get.  I look at timeshares a complete luxury purchase and as a means to take really nice vacations I wouldn't otherwise be able to afford.  So far I have loved all my timeshare purchases, especially my Willowridge and WM timeshare.  I loved DVC but that was so expensive and I kept getting less and less vacation time out of it.  My OceanWatch is definately my favorite but my Willowridge gets me two vacations a year and now that I understand the Marriott preferene I know what resorts/weeks I can get with Willowridge.

About Willowridge not pulling the summer carolina weeks, the jury is still out on that for me.  Last year I would 100% agree that trade won't happen.  This year and next year I am more optomistic because a Platinum Harbor Lake (orlando) pulled a Grande Ocean in July for this summer.  In face, the person who got that exchange is at Grande Ocean right now and has posted a few times from the resort. Last year, I know a couple Willowridge owners who got mid August weeks in the Carolinas, but that was the best I had heard about.

Will Willowridge pull a Marriott ski week, absolutely.  The ski weeks are almost always deposited as a one bedroom and a lock off and ski weeks are a pretty easy trade with Marriott preference.  I'm not saying all ski weeks are easy or even possible (Christmas, New Years and Presidents week) are usually out of the question.  With that said, there were many last minute Utah Christmas and New Years weeks avalable last year with 60 days of check-in, but they were in Marriott preference.  Last year, I do not think there was much snow for Christams and New Years and I have a feeling that is why there were a few deposits within flex.

Regarding Marriott ski weeks, I got a Presidents day week for 2013 with a 4k credit WM deposit, and I got that exchange this past February, nearly a full year before check-in.  I've had no such luck with the Utah properties but those resorts are more expensive for me to fly to -- so maybe it is for the best.

Again, unless you have a Marriott week you won't be able to appreciate the value in having the Marriott preference.  Truely, my WM points have yet to pull a summer Carolina week (marriott or any other brand) or an Easter Carolina week).  NCV doesn't appeal to me, but I know that is a hard resort to get.  My Willowridge week has pulled all but the Carolina summer weeks.  The key is depositing the full 2 bedroom for those very difficult trades.  So many people try with just the one bedroom and it never happens.  

Someone posted about WM and how great it sounds to be able to rent points for as many trades as you want.  Absolutely that is true.  I do it all the time for my family.  We all use my 5k WM account.  Comes to about $650 in point rental from other owners for a 2 bedroom from either II or RCI.  Of course there is no Marriott preference or Starwood preference in II for WM owners so we are excluded from those super hard to get exhanges but there are lots of trick with WM to get your trades even cheaper.  For example, I just used a blue 3 bedroom WM deposit (cost was 7k points) and turned that into two 1 bedroom exchanges into Ocean Pointe for next 4th of July.  I used another WM blue 3 bedroom deposit (cost 7k points) and booked this coming Easter week in a two bedroom at Harbor Lake.  

...but back to Marriott's Willowridge.  Despite what you might think about its trading power, it will get you  your trade more times than not.  



Beefnot said:


> This is sound advice for the risk averse.  This is also part of the rationale behind people who buy brands in other walks of life.  There is that perception of dependable quality and reputation. And with timeshares, that will likely extend to ability to resell if and when the time comes.
> 
> However, if one is slightly risk taking and financially shrewd, they may also discover that the savings enjoyed over time by purchasing a quality no-name may far exceed what they have to pay offload it when the time comes.
> 
> ...


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## jdunn1 (Jul 26, 2012)

That string about OceanWatch owners having trouble booking has nothing to do with II.  Those owners are complaining about how hard it is to book their week with Marriott.  When you buy into OceanWatch as is the case with just about all the other Marriott resorts, you are buying a floating week (platinum plus is a fixed week) and so you have to call 12 or 13 months before the check-in date you want and hope you get it.  For more owners than not, they get their week, but some owners get locked out of July weeks.  

The big problem with OceanWatch is that Marriott only has one resort in Myrtle beach as opposed to 4 beach front resorts in Hilton Head.  On top of that so many OceanWatch owners rent their week, thus keeping a lot of inventory from II.

...but trading into OceanWatch is going to be hard for anyone, even other Platinum Marriott Carolina owners.  



bonk2boy said:


> Are you saying that in contrast a platinum Orlando or Branson week with Marriott preference (as opposed to the non-Marriott) is going to have a decent chance to pull these exchanges?  If so, why is there another current string about  OceanWatch platinum owners having trouble getting true summer weeks during their own season (I know you mentioned the Grande but I would think those have similar desirability levels).  That string has me all but convinced not to buy Marriott unless I'm committed to buy two so I can use the 13 month preference.
> 
> Going back to the original poster, for someone who is looking to stay in Desert Springs, Ocean Point, and Orlando during the summer months, I really don't believe it's necessary to be a Marriott owner.  I say this based on the fact that during the summer using our non-Marriott 1 BR (not even silver rated) exchange I consistently see plenty of online availablity for 2 BR (and even 3 BR) Marriott exchanges in all of these places.  I'm not suggesting my parents made a smart decision in their purchase.  The maintence fees on their place are too high.  The point I'm making is there are lots of Gold rated places in desirable low maintenance areas like South Carolina where a lock-out summer week would cost less than or about the same as buying an Orlando or Branson summer week at a Marriott with much lower maintenence.  Some (such as the Spinnaker properties) trade both RCI and II.
> 
> As for the WM suggestion, that concept of being able to buy points to confirm as many units or trades as you want at varying sizes sounds very interesting to me.  I had no idea about that feature and will look into that for when the time comes to buy.  That's a huge benefit to have - I just wish the WM properties were more appealing to us (their west coast ski properties aren't ski-in / ski-out which is a priority to us if we travel for a ski trip) and there isn't much of a selection of resorts on the east coast.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 27, 2012)

Thinking it over even more  I think Willow Ridge - while tempting - wouldn't be the best choice for us. The trading power sounds really good and it is comparatively inexpensive but I am just worried that things could change in the future and the trading power could decline. Of course that is true for any timeshare but Willow Ridge would just be too difficult for us to get to regularly so we really wouldn't be able to use it ourselves which means we would be stuck with mfs for nothing (and as Willow Ridge seems to be often used for trading it might be difficult to get rid off if the trading power had declined). Still, if we lived closer Willow Ridge would probably be my first choice.

Ocean Pointe sounds lovely but my main goal in buying a timeshare is to make our vacations more affordable and the mf are just a bit high for my taste.

Which leaves Manor Club and Shadow Ridge (gold). Manor Club we would probably use quite a bit as it is easy to get to and there are many nearby destinations for extending our vacation (Washington DC, the beach, etc.). Shadow Ridge would also be fairly easy to get to and if we had to we could use gold season (though it would be a bit tricky). The same is true for Desert Springs but here mf are higher (though being able to trade both with RCI and II would be a plus).

Now I am just wondering how these two properties trade. Does anyone have information about the relative trading power of Manor Club or Shadow Ridge (gold)? For the most part we wouldn't need truly high season though it would be nice to get Easter if necessary. Main destinations would be California, Florida, East Coast. Maybe something in Europe once in a while (here we would be more flexible with the dates). Also, I assume Marriott trades well outside Marriott as well?


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## jin (Jul 27, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> Thinking it over even more  I think Willow Ridge - while tempting - wouldn't be the best choice for us. The trading power sounds really good and it is comparatively inexpensive but I am just worried that things could change in the future and the trading power could decline. Of course that is true for any timeshare but Willow Ridge would just be too difficult for us to get to regularly so we really wouldn't be able to use it ourselves which means we would be stuck with mfs for nothing (and as Willow Ridge seems to be often used for trading it might be difficult to get rid off if the trading power had declined). Still, if we lived closer Willow Ridge would probably be my first choice.
> 
> Ocean Pointe sounds lovely but my main goal in buying a timeshare is to make our vacations more affordable and the mf are just a bit high for my taste.
> 
> ...



I have Manor club (fords colony 2 br nonlockoff  platinum) and 2br lock off  gold shadow ridge and 3 br lock off gold grand vista, and 2 br plat lock off grand chateau.  I bought all for trading and reasonable m.f.s ( for Marriott)  In all honesty I have been able to get virtually the same trades with my Studio as I can for the 1 or 2 br at EACH of the resorts.  Two things though: for making requests (which is the best way to use II) the larger room size is necessary to request an equal room size (unless your smart and request a resort that only has larger rooms.  Overall I haven't noted a huge difference with any my units but would rank them (based on a Slightly better trade power) as follows for trade power: 1)MC (however, I am using a full 2 br to trade, thus tend to use this in dc program or trade for 120k rewards pts towards travel package, or a II request for 2br) 2)MC 3) gv 4) sr.  One other thing - shadow ridge taxes are billed separate, and not included in mfs which brings my sr mfs a bit above my mc.  If I had to buy today I would look seriously at gv gold or plat manor club sequel ( because it has lockoff). Luckily I was able to join dc program as resale purchases for all of my properties, so I can find better uses for my mc non- lockoff.  Eventually you may be able to also, so you may also want to look at current dc values in which case I would pick GC!  Good luck!! Pete


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## jin (Jul 27, 2012)

jin said:


> I have Manor club (fords colony 2 br nonlockoff  platinum) and 2br lock off  gold shadow ridge and 3 br lock off gold grand vista, and 2 br plat lock off grand chateau.  I bought all for trading and reasonable m.f.s ( for Marriott)  In all honesty I have been able to get virtually the same trades with my Studio as I can for the 1 or 2 br at EACH of the resorts.  Two things though: for making requests (which is the best way to use II) the larger room size is necessary to request an equal room size (unless your smart and request a resort that only has larger rooms.  Overall I haven't noted a huge difference with any my units but would rank them (based on a Slightly better trade power) as follows for trade power: 1)MC (however, I am using a full 2 br to trade, thus tend to use this in dc program or trade for 120k rewards pts towards travel package, or a II request for 2br) 2)MC 3) gv 4) sr.  One other thing - shadow ridge taxes are billed separate, and not included in mfs which brings my sr mfs a bit above my mc.  If I had to buy today I would look seriously at gv gold or plat manor club sequel ( because it has lockoff). Luckily I was able to join dc program as resale purchases for all of my properties, so I can find better uses for my mc non- lockoff.  Eventually you may be able to also, so you may also want to look at current dc values in which case I would pick GC!  Good luck!! Pete



My 2nd choice should read GC not MC....


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## jont (Jul 27, 2012)

For relative trade power, I would look towards II Travel demand index(TDI).
For the 4 weeks in August Williamsburg has a TDI of 150 while Palm Springs has a TDI of 85-90. 
For successful trading during the summer and Holiday weeks I always try to
1. Request early
2. Be flexible
3. Have realistic expectations.

Not all, but a lot of the great trade up stories you read about here are by people  who are flexible and can travel during off peak seasons or by picking up weeks during the flex-trade period.
If your flying into the country during the summer and holiday weeks a lot of these great trade up will be difficult to get.


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 27, 2012)

jont said:


> For relative trade power, I would look towards II Travel demand index(TDI).
> For the 4 weeks in August Williamsburg has a TDI of 150 while Palm Springs has a TDI of 85-90.
> For successful trading during the summer and Holiday weeks I always try to
> 1. Request early
> ...



Well, I am not really looking for great trade ups (I think). I would be perfectly happy with a 1 bedroom unit and don't need July or Christmas. Mostly August to early September and maybe once in a while Easter (which of course would be a holiday week). Still, I would like to be able to pull a decent variety and occasionally something at Easter etc. 

Actually, I think I could get into the flex-trade period occasionally. When travelling to areas with a good supply (at that time of year) I would be willing to book the flight and wait to confirm the resort until shortly before the trip. For example I would think that it is easy to find something in Orlando or Palm Springs in late August/early September (based on my experience with booking hotels). We are leaving for the States in a week and I just yesterday booked a resort for the end of August.


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## jont (Jul 27, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> Well, I am not really looking for great trade ups (I think). I would be perfectly happy with a 1 bedroom unit and don't need July or Christmas. Mostly August to early September and maybe once in a while Easter (which of course would be a holiday week). Still, I would like to be able to pull a decent variety and occasionally something at Easter etc.
> 
> Actually, I think I could get into the flex-trade period occasionally. When travelling to areas with a good supply (at that time of year) I would be willing to book the flight and wait to confirm the resort until shortly before the trip. For example I would think that it is easy to find something in Orlando or Palm Springs in late August/early September (based on my experience with booking hotels). We are leaving for the States in a week and I just yesterday booked a resort for the end of August.


Sounds like you've already made up your mind. I think you should go with you gut. Like i said in an earlier post, I think you'll be happy with any Marriott you choose.


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## pipet (Jul 27, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> For example I would think that it is easy to find something in Orlando or Palm Springs in late August/early September (based on my experience with booking hotels). We are leaving for the States in a week and I just yesterday booked a resort for the end of August.



Palm Desert is definitely easy to get into in late Aug/Sept. If you get a gold desert week, that does include weeks 36, 37 which might fall into your travel schedule so you could save a trade fee, and you can easily buy a getaway week for the week prior to extend your vacation. Trade power will be decent especially since you want to travel after the peak summer weeks.  

A Plat Manor Club will have stronger trade power but will also have a higher buy-in cost.  Maintenance fees are also slightly less.  If it were me, and the buy-in cost was ok, I'd go with the plat week.  If you need dirt cheap entry cost, are OK with the desert MFs, *and* decide you don't mind the heat after you visit soon (I have fun in the summer but for some it's miserable), I'd go with that.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 27, 2012)

> That string about OceanWatch owners having trouble booking has nothing to do with II.



I know.  That was my point in bringing it up.  Sometimes Carolina owners can't even get their own summer weeks.  It was in response to the post about not taking a chance on a non-branded week until there's proof that a non-branded property will be able to pull places like that on exchange in the summer (the poster used the Grande in his example).  My point was that's not really a fair benchmark to judge a non-branded week, because platinum Marriott weeks in other areas (Vegas, Orlando, Branson, etc.) aren't pulling Carolina in the summer either.


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## tahoeJoe (Jul 27, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> I think you should go with WorldMark.  No Marriott preference but it's a points bases system and the dues are very reasonable.  Best of all, you can use WM points internally (mostly California, Oregon, Washington, Canada, Nevada, Utah, Arizona resorts) or WM has top trading power in Interval and RCI, so you could get all the major timeshare brands with only one timeshare ownership.  WorldMark trades best in RCI since there are no resort preference periods like there are in II, but Worldmark is a very inexpensive trader and trades just as well as the Hyatts and Marriotts in Interval, just without any kind of internal resort brand preference.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and look into WorldMark.  WorldMark is not on many people's radar screens, but boy is it a valuable timeshare to own, especially if you can only own one.



How does WorldMark compare to Wyndham? I hear they are related. Is one brand preferred over the other?


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## PearlCity (Jul 27, 2012)

tahoeJoe said:


> How does WorldMark compare to Wyndham? I hear they are related. Is one brand preferred over the other?



I was wondering the same thing. I want to find some thing inexpensive i can use to trade into ko olina...I live on oahu so im flexible with weeks.


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## tahoeJoe (Jul 27, 2012)

Vacationsarefun said:


> At the moment I am leaning towards Shadow Ridge but maybe there is another resort that would be even better?



As a Marriott owner, I would strongly recommend against buying Marriott. There are a lot of reasons I would advise against it but I don't want to start fight on this board. PM if you are interested. 

As a Starwood owner I would advise you to consider a Sheraton Desert Oasis (SDO) in Phoenix. You can get a Gold Plus weeks 1-52 literally for free, the MF are low and you get a GREAT Starwood preference in II. Right now, with a small SDO 1-bedroom I can see 2 bedrooms at Westin Maui, Westin Cancun, Westin Scottsdale, Harborside Atlantis, Vistana Village and Vistana Resort in Orlando, and Westin Mission Hills. Plus Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix is an international airport. Also, I can also see plenty of Marriott and Hyatt weeks with my SDO.   

If you can get a SDO for free and you don't like it, just give it away. There are plenty of SDO fans on this board who will take it. 

Something to consider.


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## jewls (Jul 27, 2012)

Marriotts Boston Custom House


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## jdunn1 (Jul 27, 2012)

WorldMark and Wyndham are owned by the same company but they are completely seperate for resale owners.  Some WM owners how either bought retail or have owned for a while can trade into some Wyndham properties but it is very difficult (only 2 rooms each week at the resorts WM owners can use points for) and it takes a lot of points.  I think all Wyndham owners can trade into 30 or so WM resorts, but again, very limited inventory.

As someone who lives in Ohio and travels along the East coast, I like the Wyndham resorts more than I do the WM resorts, but only becuase WM is almost 100% along the West coast.  Wyndham is more expensive to own than WM and there are many more rules Wyndham imposes on their owners.  WM is much more owner friendly and you can rent points from other owners and trade with RCI or II, etc...

Neither resort brand has good ski locations in my oppinion.  WM certainely does not -- at least there are no ski in ski out location in CO or UT or CA/NV.  I do not think Wyndham is any better.

As far as Hawaii goes, a 2 bedroom Hawaii at the WM resorts is 12k points, I think.  I do not think the WM Hawaii resorts are anything special.  WM is horrible at updating the photos of their resorts so many of their resorts look terribly out dated.  I know nothing about the Wyndham Hawaii resorts.

If any of you are serious about WM, then check out www.wmowers.com  This is the best place for WM info.



PearlCity said:


> I was wondering the same thing. I want to find some thing inexpensive i can use to trade into ko olina...I live on oahu so im flexible with weeks.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 27, 2012)

A platinum Orlando resort did pull a July Grande Ocean for this summer under Marriott preference.  I'm sure there are other inland Marriott owners who got into the Carolinas for this summer but they are probably far and few between.  I know I have posted questions about who has tradded into the Carolinas for the summer and I never get responses.  Manor Club owners were very loud about how for years they had no problem trading into the Carolinas for the summer but not so much any more.  

I just did a test with my Platinum Ocean Watch week to see if I could pull another OceanWatch week with it and I did get a match for July 5, 2013.  Took about three weeks to get a match.

I have not received a match for a summer Carolina week with my Willowridge unit, but that is most likely becuse I have only tried searching with my one bedroom side.  I unlocked off my Willowridge and deposited a full 2 bedroom for 2013 and am trying again for a summer carolina week.  If I get a match, I will be sure to post about it.  

As someone who has tried for over two years to get a summer marriott carolina week with my WM points, I think it is safe to assume no one has traded into those properties over the last two years without having Marriott preference.

...but I have to bow out of this thread, now.  I get the speculation, believe me.  I know trading for the super demand weeks in Marriott is near impossible, even with Marriott preference, but I am worn out saying the same things over and over again about how powerful that trade preference is.  Good luck to everyone with whatever they purchase.  Personally, I can't immagine a more valuable timeshare pair to own than a Marriott week and WM points.  




bonk2boy said:


> I know.  That was my point in bringing it up.  Sometimes Carolina owners can't even get their own summer weeks.  It was in response to the post about not taking a chance on a non-branded week until there's proof that a non-branded property will be able to pull places like that on exchange in the summer (the poster used the Grande in his example).  My point was that's not really a fair benchmark to judge a non-branded week, because platinum Marriott weeks in other areas (Vegas, Orlando, Branson, etc.) aren't pulling Carolina in the summer either.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 28, 2012)

> A platinum Orlando resort did pull a July Grande Ocean for this summer under Marriott preference. I'm sure there are other inland Marriott owners who got into the Carolinas for this summer but they are probably far and few between. I know I have posted questions about who has tradded into the Carolinas for the summer and I never get responses. Manor Club owners were very loud about how for years they had no problem trading into the Carolinas for the summer but not so much any more.



Interesting insight.  Thanks!  I'm going to check out WM too.  Manor Club is one that has been on our radar moreso than the other inland places.  I'm leary of the overpopulated areas like Orlando, particularly because it's not driving distance from us and there's so much availability on II all the time (even summer).  Williamsburg is at least a tougher exchange in the summer.  Busch Gardens is nice for the kids and I like that it's only 45 minutes or so from Virginia Beach (so if we really wanted we could book a night or two there to extend our trip).  Plus it's driving distance for us. 

I'm curious about trading into the ski weeks at the Mountainside too.  Do you ever availability during prime season?  I would never count on trading and we are seriously considering buying a ski week. But my big fear with is the way they float 48-50, 1-15.  I'd be really pissed off if I spent the money to buy one and had trouble reserving anything but weeks 48, 49, 14, and 15.  Those weeks aren't comparable at all and shouldn't be included in the season.  It's different even IMO from getting stuck with a June "summer" week in the Carolinas because at least the June weather is nice enough to use the beach/pool amenities.  Half the time there's no snow yet on week 48, and the lifts could be closed on week 15.  I'm worried about the 13 month priority period as I don't think we can afford to buy 2 weeks to ensure we get the advance booking.


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## K2Quick (Jul 28, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> WorldMark and Wyndham are owned by the same company . . .



Small correction - Like most developers Wyndham acts like they own Worldmark.  However, they only manage them (I realize you know this).


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## jdunn1 (Jul 28, 2012)

Alright, I will keep commenting, but sometimes I think I need a pill to make me not look at TUG so much during the day.

I see studio ski weeks at the Utah resorts often and they always start in Marriott preference and some do make it past prefernce.  Can't say I have seen many, if any holiday weeks, but I have seen MLK week and lots of January and March weeks.  I don't see many, if any one bedrooms.  Oddly, I see more 2 bedrooms than 1 bedrooms.  What I immagine is happening is the 1 bedroom ski weeks get snatched by on-going searches but the studios don't get taken by on-going searches and that's why I see them on-line.

All the Marriott resorts have weeks that are less desirable in whatever season is at issue.  I hear you about not wanting those weeks during ski season.  The thing about the Marriott platinum ski weeks are that all the holiday weeks were sold as platinum plus.  So, if you want Christmas or New Years of Presidents week, the resale price is closer to 40k+.  Marriott is selling those weeks for near 60k!





bonk2boy said:


> Interesting insight.  Thanks!  I'm going to check out WM too.  Manor Club is one that has been on our radar moreso than the other inland places.  I'm leary of the overpopulated areas like Orlando, particularly because it's not driving distance from us and there's so much availability on II all the time (even summer).  Williamsburg is at least a tougher exchange in the summer.  Busch Gardens is nice for the kids and I like that it's only 45 minutes or so from Virginia Beach (so if we really wanted we could book a night or two there to extend our trip).  Plus it's driving distance for us.
> 
> I'm curious about trading into the ski weeks at the Mountainside too.  Do you ever availability during prime season?  I would never count on trading and we are seriously considering buying a ski week. But my big fear with is the way they float 48-50, 1-15.  I'd be really pissed off if I spent the money to buy one and had trouble reserving anything but weeks 48, 49, 14, and 15.  Those weeks aren't comparable at all and shouldn't be included in the season.  It's different even IMO from getting stuck with a June "summer" week in the Carolinas because at least the June weather is nice enough to use the beach/pool amenities.  Half the time there's no snow yet on week 48, and the lifts could be closed on week 15.  I'm worried about the 13 month priority period as I don't think we can afford to buy 2 weeks to ensure we get the advance booking.


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## K2Quick (Jul 28, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> I see studio ski weeks at the Utah resorts often and they always start in Marriott preference and some do make it past prefernce.  Can't say I have seen many, if any holiday weeks, but I have seen MLK week and lots of January and March weeks.  I don't see many, if any one bedrooms.  Oddly, I see more 2 bedrooms than 1 bedrooms.  What I immagine is happening is the 1 bedroom ski weeks get snatched by on-going searches but the studios don't get taken by on-going searches and that's why I see them on-line.



I saw a lot of prime Park City Marriott weeks this year pop up mostly last-minute.  In my opinion, it was mainly due to the fact that this past season was the worst for snowfall in a long, long time.  I only made it out for a half day this year because we had a baby and that complicates getting up to the slopes, but I don't feel like I missed out on a thing.  Wasting a lift ticket on a bad snow day is painful.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 28, 2012)

I agree.  There were at least two or three Christmas and New Years 2 bedrooms at each of the Marriott's in Utah last winter that I can remember seeing.  A few of those units were under Marriott preference but there were at least two times when they were not under preference but I think that was mostly becuase they were deposited the day before check-in.

I got cheated out of skiing last winter, too.  Not complaining becuase I still got to Colorado for Presidents day, just there wasn't even one good snow day here in Cleveland.  So odd, but I am hoping we do not pay for that this winter with too much snow.  I love it, but not so much driving in it.



K2Quick said:


> I saw a lot of prime Park City Marriott weeks this year pop up mostly last-minute.  In my opinion, it was mainly due to the fact that this past season was the worst for snowfall in a long, long time.  I only made it out for a half day this year because we had a baby and that complicates getting up to the slopes, but I don't feel like I missed out on a thing.  Wasting a lift ticket on a bad snow day is painful.


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## SMB1 (Jul 29, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> The big problem with OceanWatch is that Marriott only has one resort in Myrtle beach as opposed to 4 beach front resorts in Hilton Head.  On top of that so many OceanWatch owners rent their week, thus keeping a lot of inventory from II.
> 
> ...but trading into OceanWatch is going to be hard for anyone, even other Platinum Marriott Carolina owners.



I don't see this as a problem (unless you are looking at it from the person trying to trade in point of view). I have posted before that this is exactly what makes MOW one of the most valuable weeks in the system.  The only Marriott in Myrtle Beach.  Arguably the best resort in Myrtle Beach.  No Lock-Offs, so there aren't a lot of 1BR & studios floating around on II.  And it is a relatively small resort.  Just not that many rooms.  High owner occupancy or rent.  I just think a request first would command anything II has.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 29, 2012)

Totally get it about the Platinum Plus.  Truthfully, we don't really want to ski Christmas week or Feburary break anyway.  The mountain is packed for one thing, and lift ticket prices are also much higher.  While it would be really great to get a film festival week (over MLK holiday), we'd be happy with any week in January through mid-March.  We bought a week 48 getaway for $250 dollars a couple years ago.  We got really lucky - big Thansgiving storm and so conditions were good.  There were about 40 runs open which the folks at PCMR said was more than they could remember in recent times by that week.  For the price of the getaway, we were thrilled, but if I was an owner and that was the week I got, I'd be very pissed.  Week 15 is mid-April though and it's possible the mountain has even closed for the season by then.  Even worse.  Any week that's not a guarantee for at least 75% of the mountain to be open should be offered in another season IMO.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 29, 2012)

The other thing I wonder about is how good the trading options are outside of Marriott priority if you want to stay somewhere other than a Marriott?    Am I understanding correctly that someone who owns an Orlando platinum week might actually get priority for a 2BR MOU ski week over an II member whose putting up a prime 2 BR ski week at say Grand Lodge at Peak 7 or Hyatt Residence at Beaver Creek?  Somehow I imagine there must be controls in place to prevent this from happening.  Marriott is going to want the MOU owners on the flip side to be able to trade into these places and it can't be that MOU owners can trade into these places but not vice versa, right?


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## dougp26364 (Jul 29, 2012)

bonk2boy said:


> The other thing I wonder about is how good the trading options are outside of Marriott priority if you want to stay somewhere other than a Marriott?    Am I understanding correctly that someone who owns an Orlando platinum week might actually get priority for a 2BR MOU ski week over an II member whose putting up a prime 2 BR ski week at say Grand Lodge at Peak 7 or Hyatt Residence at Beaver Creek?  Somehow I imagine there must be controls in place to prevent this from happening.  Marriott is going to want the MOU owners on the flip side to be able to trade into these places and it can't be that MOU owners can trade into these places but not vice versa, right?



During the Marriott to Marriott preference, the GL& owners won't even see the Marriott. Marriott owners get first shot at other Marriott weeks so, if a Marriott owner had a request in and that request has enough "power" to pull the exchange, it will get the exchange, even another week outside the Marriott system might have more "power."

This was Marriott's original attempt at inventory control and keeping Marriott weeks avaiable to Marriott owners. It worked well enough for owners but, it wasn't exclusive enough that it was impossible to trade into Marriott. On the contrary I've taken shots from WM owners and former Sunterra owners (when Sunterra's MF's were cheap) about the stupidity of owning Marriott and paying their MF's when it was so easy to trade in using a week from a cheaper ownership.

The fact is, I've used an inexpensive week in Branson (MF $285/year) to trade into Marriott's Willow Ridge Lodge a few times. I can see summer Mountain Valley Lodge weeks with this less expensive week as well.

So Marriott preference helps, especially with the more difficult and rare exchanges but, it never provided that exclusivity that Marriott wanted for it's owners. Thus, the better-late-than-never Marriott Destinations Club; but that's another story for another thread.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks, Doug.  That makes sense.  The question though is would an Orlando or Branson Platinum week be viewed as an equal to a Mountainside platinum ski week in the preference period (not talking about last minute deposits but advanced requests)?  I would really hope not considering those Orlando weeks can often be purchased for a couple hundred dollars as getaways and the ski weeks often sell for $3,000 on redweek.  Who gets to determine whether the Marriott deposits are "equal" - Marriott or II?


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## m61376 (Jul 29, 2012)

bonk2boy said:


> Thanks, Doug.  That makes sense.  The question though is would an Orlando or Branson Platinum week be viewed as an equal to a Mountainside platinum ski week in the preference period (not talking about last minute deposits but advanced requests)?  I would really hope not considering those Orlando weeks can often be purchased for a couple hundred dollars as getaways and the ski weeks often sell for $3,000 on redweek.  Who gets to determine whether the Marriott deposits are "equal" - Marriott or II?



II has it's own formula, and a lot will depend on who else is making the request. While a better trader may get first dibs, putting your request in early and date flexibility will help/ If you luck out and there are not a lot of requests by other Marriott owners, then you may very well match because Marriott preference is such that you will get it before another, even very strong non-Marriott trader. And I don't know if it's being considered, but a 3BR Orlando week will have great trade power due to its size, and can be used as a 3BR for tough trades, which become high on the food chain when requesting 2bR units.


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## jdunn1 (Jul 29, 2012)

bonk2boy, I do not think you will hear even one testimonial from someone who used a non marriott deposit to pull a prime marriott ski week (1 or 2 bedroom) at either of the Utah or Taho resorts.  You might find someone who had better luck at one of the Colorado resorts. If you do find someone who got a ski week my bet is the week was close to mud season or they got the week a day or two before check-in and found it on-line.  I honestly do not think you will hear from anyone who has had any success trading in within the past 2-3 years.  Same thing applies to the Carolina summer weeks.

I've had a request in II for two years of so with a red season WM 3 bedroom, and nothing!  II doesn't care about how long you have been waiting for a trade.  The only thing that matters is internal preference and trade power.  II is not like RCI where wait time puts you ahead of others.  

If you find someone who has traded into one the Marriott ski resorts in a one bedroom or larger during prime ski season or traded into the Carolinas into one of the prime Marriott beachfront locations, I would sure like to know.

That trade preference works both ways, though.  There are no Marriott owners trading into Harborside for prime summer or spring weeks.  No one is getting into St. John and no one is getting the Starwood in Steamboat or the one in Vail (Lakeside).  

No one is getting into the Hyatt ski resorts, etc...

If your plan is to trade into any hotel branded system for prime weeks, then you need to own in that system.  I honestly do not see any way around it, but for renting.

You will hear from owners of non hotel branded timeshares who trade all the time into Marriott and Hyatt and Starwood, etc...  But, if you read about their trades, they are all off season weeks or in heavily developed areas, like Orlando and Branson and Williamsburg, etc...  

My reason for owning Marriott is that I get to travel once or twice a year for vacation, not once a month or more.  I want the best weeks and best resorts I can get and owning a Marriott gives me preference over all but other Marriott owners for the resorts I want.


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 29, 2012)

> bonk2boy, I do not think you will hear even one testimonial from someone who used a non marriott deposit to pull a prime marriott ski week (1 or 2 bedroom) at either of the Utah or Taho resorts. You might find someone who had better luck at one of the Colorado resorts. If you do find someone who got a ski week my bet is the week was close to mud season or they got the week a day or two before check-in and found it on-line.



The shoulder seasons come up.  I've been watching the weeks and have been able to view plenty of 2 BR December weeks (48-49) in both Park City and Tahoe Marriotts with my crappy non-Marriott 1 BRs for 2012 already.    December 8th check in isn't mud season.  Studios have popped up during peak season too (but having a kitchen is very important to us on a ski trip).  At Timberlodge we paid $549 for a 2 BR getaway in 2011 (I think it was a 3/31 check in but may have been 4/1).  We reserved that at least 3 months in advance and although the first week of April is spring skiing it was hardly mud-season (snowed the entire time we were there).  The January, February or March weeks at Mountainside in 1 BRs+  never come up for non-Marriott which is why I've considered buying the week but have been reluctant to spend the money when there's no guarantee that I don't get stuck with a December or April week (which I can often get now without shelling out 15K).  Hyatt's seasons are more fair (weeks 47-50 are gold season there) but the maintenance fees and buy in to own a deeded ski-week are a lot higher.  

Thank you all for your input.  Now you guys have me thinking maybe our best bet will be to buy a platinum Marriott week somewhere else (probably Williamsburg since we could drive there if all else failed) and also purchase a Hyatt deeded somewhere cheaper than Colorado.  We could probably pick up both for the same 15K cost of buying a ski week outright.  This way we'd have a decent chance of pulling a ski week through one system or the other or via II exchange.  If we couldn't get a ski week through Marriott, we liked Aruba a lot so we could use it for our yearly beach trip.  Would you say that a 2 BR at either Ocean Club or Surf Club during the summer would be a relatively safe bet with any platinum ownership?  Thanks again for the input!


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## pwrshift (Jul 29, 2012)

I own MBP MMC and CV and personally wouldn't want to go to any of them in summer.  IMO MBP is the best of the 3 in summer because of ocean breezes.  I often go to MMC in summer because of the grandchildren and we can drive, but I find the heat and humidity very oppressive and
this July there was no day below 100 degrees and it felt higher with hunidity.  It's always that way in summer.  CV...forget all those who say it's a dry heat...at 140 degrees who cares.

International airports close to BP and CV but Washington airport is 3 hour drive from MC.

Only Marriotts with a little cooler summer in the east coast area would be Custom House - 1 bdrm only, and maybe the one close to Atlantic City NJ., but no lockoffs.

Brian


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## twinmommy19 (Jul 30, 2012)

> And I don't know if it's being considered, but a 3BR Orlando week will have great trade power due to its size, and can be used as a 3BR for tough trades, which become high on the food chain when requesting 2bR units.



Good point - I didn't think of this.  Are there any other Marriott resorts besides Las Vegas and Orlando that have 3 BRs?  We really don't want to own in Orlando.  I follow the rule of thumb to at least buy where you'd be happy staying and I'd never be happy using an exchange on something I could get for next to nothing as a getaway.  I know you buy as a trader, but I can't follow that to the T because the rules could change at any time.  One minue DVC was with II, now they are with RCI.  Marriott could change it's terms too (especially with the DC, worries me that now maybe they have less incentive to protest the weeks owners).


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## larryallen (Jul 30, 2012)

tahoeJoe said:


> As a Marriott owner, I would strongly recommend against buying Marriott. There are a lot of reasons I would advise against it but I don't want to start fight on this board. PM if you are interested.
> 
> As a Starwood owner I would advise you to consider a Sheraton Desert Oasis (SDO) in Phoenix. You can get a Gold Plus weeks 1-52 literally for free, the MF are low and you get a GREAT Starwood preference in II. Right now, with a small SDO 1-bedroom I can see 2 bedrooms at Westin Maui, Westin Cancun, Westin Scottsdale, Harborside Atlantis, Vistana Village and Vistana Resort in Orlando, and Westin Mission Hills. Plus Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix is an international airport. Also, I can also see plenty of Marriott and Hyatt weeks with my SDO.
> 
> ...



Seems to good to be true!?


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## brigechols (Jul 30, 2012)

bonk2boy said:


> Are there any other Marriott resorts besides Las Vegas and Orlando that have 3 BRs?



Marriott's with 3 bedrooms (excluding Orlando and Las Vegas):
Club Son Antem
Crystal Shores
Frenchman's Cove
Imperial Palms
Marbella Beach
St Kitts
Surfwatch
Aruba Surf Club
Ko'Olina
Maui Ocean Club Lahaina and Napili Villas
Ocean Pointe
Playa Andaluza
Timber Lodge
Viillage d'Ile-de-France


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## KathyPet (Jul 30, 2012)

One of the primary concerns that you mention is being close to a airport that does international flights.  As I am sure you are aware all of the large US carriers use a system of hubs which involves flying overseas to one of the hubs and then changing planes to fly to smaller destinations.  All of the large European carriers fly direct to large US cities.  So, are you willing to go through the process of changing planes at one of the hubs?.  If you are not and you want to be able to drive to your destination from your original arrival airport then your options are very limited.  American has a hub at Miami, Delta at Atlanta and United at Dulles and of course there are other hubs but that may be a consideration for you


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## Vacationsarefun (Jul 30, 2012)

KathyPet said:


> One of the primary concerns that you mention is being close to a airport that does international flights.  As I am sure you are aware all of the large US carriers use a system of hubs which involves flying overseas to one of the hubs and then changing planes to fly to smaller destinations.  All of the large European carriers fly direct to large US cities.  So, are you willing to go through the process of changing planes at one of the hubs?.  If you are not and you want to be able to drive to your destination from your original arrival airport then your options are very limited.  American has a hub at Miami, Delta at Atlanta and United at Dulles and of course there are other hubs but that may be a consideration for you



Thanks! I don't mind changing planes but in my experience the flight gets more expensive if there are not many (international) connections. As far as flights are concerned I would like the resort to be close to one of the following: New York City, Washington DC, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami, Dallas, Chicago, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Los Angeles. Maybe Boston or Seattle (I may be missing something here).


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