# [ 2013 ] Bicycle Computers?  Advice, please.



## heathpack (Apr 8, 2013)

Any cyclists out there?

I started cycling about 2 years ago after I bought a 20ish year old mountain bike at a garage sale for $37.50.  Eventually I went as far as that bike could take me and I decided to buy a road bike.  I didn't really know what I wanted in a bike so I googled "entry level road bikes," got a list of 10 reccs from Bicycling Mag and went out and bought one of those about a month ago- the women's version of the Trek entry level bike, the Lexi C.

Totally smitten with the bike.  But I bought an inadequate computer- a great buy at $25, I have ave speed, max speed, current speed, time elapsed, time of day, trip meter and odometer.

I very obviously need a computer with cadence and heart rate.  Right now I ride mostly flats in town, but eventually would like to track elevation change, so that is a desired feature as well.  It is very windy where I ride (sometimes), so I can see the utility of being able to track power, but right now that seems like a feature that is a little more advanced than what I need.

It seems like I will be looking at a Garmin (open to other ideas, but all queries seem to lead that direction).  So the question then becomes, do I get the mapping feature or is this unnecessary?  The high end Garmin cycle computers are more expensive than the bike itself, about $200 more than the non-mapping version.  I have an IPhone, so in theory I don't need the maps on the cycle computer as well.  But I'd like to avoid buying a pricey computer only find its not enough and need to get a new one.

I'm not sure what I'll do with the cycling- three of us have the half-formed idea of riding a century next spring, so I will really just be trying to build a solid cycling base over the next year.  A friend of mine does some touring, and I could totally see joining her- so maybe the maps are worth it after all?  I have almost zero interest in racing, BTW. 

Advice?

Thanks,
H


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## Phydeaux (Apr 8, 2013)

Sure.

With 2 years under your belt, you're a beginner. Hope you don't have a problem with that, but how many thousands of miles can anyone log in 2 years?

It's obvious you're taken up in the tech end, and want to add a cool toy. However, you're also interested in the sport with goals of touring and doing a century. Based on my experience, with many thousands of road miles behind me, I'd suggest you focus your attention on improving your _cycling_. 

For example, it took me years to learn the technique of pedaling in circles, efficiently. I'm talking about smooth, pure power generation here. Since you ride in a windy area, this will be even more benefit. Then there's body position. Unless you're an absolute natural, this takes time to develop, and concentration. 

So to summarize, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a cool computer. However, it does take a percentage of your attention away. Hate to call it a distraction, but to a certain degree it is. In your developing years of improving your riding technique, you need as few distractions as possible. You need a LOT of concentration and focus. At least the serious cyclists I know did when they were starting out.

Focus when you ride. Pedal in circles, cleanly. Body position.

Good luck and enjoy the sport. And be sure to hang with people with more experience than you.

And if you do pop for a nice computer, do you really want one with a built in heart monitor? I would think you'd want a wrist type to use _off_ the bike.


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## heathpack (Apr 8, 2013)

Phydeaux said:


> Sure.
> 
> With 2 years under your belt, you're a beginner. Hope you don't have a problem with that, but how many thousands of miles can anyone log in 2 years?
> 
> ...



Thanks Phydeaux.  I actually do want the computer to meet some specific training goals.  To meet the goals I need the data. To get the data I need the computer.  So yes I am a beginner.  As I stated I'm trying to build a base.  Need cadence and HR data to efficiently accomplish that.

Anyone with bicycle computer advice?

H


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## Phydeaux (Apr 8, 2013)

heathpack said:


> Thanks Phydeaux.  I actually do want the computer to meet some specific training goals.  To meet the goals I need the data. To get the data I need the computer.  So yes I am a beginner.  As I stated I'm trying to build a base.  Need cadence and HR data to efficiently accomplish that.
> 
> Anyone with bicycle computer advice?
> 
> H



Sorry I misunderstood. I didn't know you were planning to build your base on a stationary trainer. My bad.


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## heathpack (Apr 8, 2013)

Phydeaux said:


> Sorry I misunderstood. I didn't know you were planning to build your base on a stationary trainer. My bad.



Said nothing about a stationary trainer.(??)

Quite simply:  asking about a C-O-M-P-U-T-E-R.

H


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## Elan (Apr 8, 2013)

Personally, I'd buy a cycling computer that adds cadence (I have a CatEye Astrale 8), add a watch style HR monitor with bike mount (you want a big display, cuz it's tough to read when riding) and blow off the GPS/mapping feature.  Go with that for awhile and see how it works.  The mapping thing seems cool, but realistically, you can get the elevation info you need off any topo map.  I'd look into the whole mapping/post-processing stuff later if it still seems like a good idea.


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## heathpack (Apr 8, 2013)

Elan said:


> Personally, I'd buy a cycling computer that adds cadence (I have a CatEye Astrale 8), add a watch style HR monitor with bike mount (you want a big display, cuz it's tough to read when riding) and blow off the GPS/mapping feature.  Go with that for awhile and see how it works.  The mapping thing seems cool, but realistically, you can get the elevation info you need off any topo map.  I'd look into the whole mapping/post-processing stuff later if it still seems like a good idea.



Thanks Jim.

But a question: Why a seperate HR monitor vs integrated?  I swim, lift weights, walk, elliptical and yoga in addition to biking.  I don't need a HR monitor for any of those activities (the elliptical maybe but the machines already have that feature), just for the biking.  So why a seperate HR monitor?  Cheaper?  Better in some way?

H


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## Elan (Apr 8, 2013)

heathpack said:


> Thanks Jim.
> 
> But a question: Why a seperate HR monitor vs integrated?  I swim, lift weights, walk, elliptical and yoga in addition to biking.  I don't need a HR monitor for any of those activities (the elliptical maybe but the machines already have that feature), just for the biking.  So why a seperate HR monitor?  Cheaper?  Better in some way?
> 
> H



  Nothing wrong with going for an integrated unit.  Kind of depends on what you already own and with which other activities you intend to use the HR monitor.  Polar makes cycling computers with built in HR sensing, so if you have a Polar strap that might be the way to go.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 8, 2013)

Deleted for lack of interest.


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## SMHarman (Apr 8, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> I also have a Garmin Forerunner 410 GPS Watch (replaced by the FR-210), that I use for running. It uses the same heart rate monitor as my Edge 800. It can also use the Speed/Cadence sensor.  You could just buy the watch and the keep it on your wrist or mount it on the handle bars.
> 
> https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=83274
> 
> ...


I don't have a bike / computer but would concur with this recommend this or the forrunner 310xt version as something that is more multifunction.  I use mine for running and skiing and if I got a bike would add the cadence etc bit to the frame.

It all communicates with ANT+ a sport related form of bluetooth so even if you change the forerunner / edge etc they other hardware does not need updating


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## zinger1457 (Apr 8, 2013)

Since most of the biking I do is within 40 miles of my home the routes are very familiar to me so a GPS feature would not be needed.  I use a Cateye cycle computer and a Polar heart rate monitor watch.  I'm happy with the Polar heart rate monitor (also use it for hiking/jogging) and know they make a cycle computer with a built in heart rate monitor so it might be worth looking into but I doubt they have the mapping feature.


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## Ron98GT (Apr 8, 2013)

zinger1457 said:


> Since most of the biking I do is within 40 miles of my home the routes are very familiar to me so a GPS feature would not be needed.  I use a Cateye cycle computer and a Polar heart rate monitor watch.  I'm happy with the Polar heart rate monitor (also use it for hiking/jogging) and know they make a cycle computer with a built in heart rate monitor so it might be worth looking into but I doubt they have the mapping feature.


Ok, you got me confused.  The GPS is used for mapping.  If you don't want GPS, you don't get mapping. If you want mapping, you need the GPS. You can't have it both ways. 

The GPS tracks your speed and location.  The GPS speed along with with your heart rate gives you a better indication of how how many calories you burnt.  The GPS also tracks your elevation.  Besides displaying your cadence, it's also stored in the Edge or Forerunner.

The Garmin programs store your work outs, after they are uploaded.  I believe you asked for that also.  But you get none of it, without the GPS.

So, I'm still confused.  Hope You figure it out.


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## SMHarman (Apr 8, 2013)

It is easy in this thread to confuse GPS data logging and analysis for speed, elevation etc with GPS navigation. 
You want the former regardless. The latter is not so necessary.


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## heathpack (Apr 9, 2013)

Ok, of the Garmins (the only brand I've looked into before), I guess the Edge 500 would make the most sense.  No mapping but I do get cadence, heart rate and can add a power meter.  $250, plus $60 for the HR strap and $60 for the cadence sensor.

Wll have to look at some of the other mentioned brands, although I see some were deleted from one post for unknown reasons.

Thanks everybody

H


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## SMHarman (Apr 9, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> Deleted for lack of interest.


I found this interesting though, I even quoted it.  Thank you.


heathpack said:


> Ok, of the Garmins (the only brand I've looked into before), I guess the Edge 500 would make the most sense.  No mapping but I do get cadence, heart rate and can add a power meter.  $250, plus $60 for the HR strap and $60 for the cadence sensor.
> 
> Wll have to look at some of the other mentioned brands, although I see some were deleted from one post for unknown reasons.
> 
> ...


The Edge 500 has GPS.  It uses it for elevation, another distance measurement (you need to calibrate the wheel sensor for accurate distance) and the fun of putting your activities up on connect.garmin.com

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/290345211 is a link to me skiing in Sugarbush as gps logged on my forerunner 405.


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## zinger1457 (Apr 9, 2013)

Ron98GT said:


> Ok, you got me confused.  The GPS is used for mapping.  If you don't want GPS, you don't get mapping. If you want mapping, you need the GPS. You can't have it both ways.
> 
> So, I'm still confused.  Hope You figure it out.



It appears all of that banging your head against the wall has made you confused . I know what a GPS does and don't want/need GPS features.  Just stating to the OP that the Polar cycle unit probably only has 2 of the 3 features he's looking for.


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## heathpack (Apr 13, 2013)

I bought the Garmin Edge 510 today, along with a cadence/speed sensor & HR monitor strap.  The bike shop installed it, I picked it up late in the day and decided to give it a whirl.

The Garmin could detect the cadence/speed sensor but for some reason cadence would not display.    So it will be back to the bike shop tomorrow for them to figure it out.

The rest of it worked well.  The goal was a ride in which I spent most of my time at 65-75% max HR which for me is between 117 and 135 bpm.  Well, that's exactly what I got.  Without a cadence sensor, my strategy has been to pedal as fast as I can.  Its nice to see that pedaling as fast as I can happens to put me in my target HR zone.  This is my basic training ride, the place where I intend to spend a large percentage of my time for the foreseeable future.

It sure will be nice to have the cadence data point as well.

Thanks everybody for the advice!

H


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## x3 skier (Apr 13, 2013)

For those of you who have an iPhone, Core Coders have an App called Bike Tracks. It tracks speed, distance, elevation, etc. 

http://www.corecoders.com/CoreCoders/biketracks.html

I use their skiing App called Ski Tracks on my iPhone and it works well. For 3 Bucks, its a pretty good simple bike computer if you have an iPhone. I have no clue if there are similar systems for Andriod but suspect there are. 

I would check it out before spending on a biking GPS device. 

Cheers


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## lvhmbh (Apr 16, 2013)

Thank you, thank you!  Got the app and love it!!!   Just what I needed


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## x3 skier (Apr 16, 2013)

lvhmbh said:


> Thank you, thank you!  Got the app and love it!!!   Just what I needed



Welcome. I would note Skitracks recorded me doing a max of 71 and 68 MPH on a couple of days.  The rest of the time it was pretty accurate. 

After the 68 MPH recording, I calibrated it with my car speedo and it was pretty close but I doubt I hit 68 on skis unless it is a suppressed memory. 

Cheers


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## laurac260 (Apr 16, 2013)

For what it's worth, I have a HRM  elliptical, a HRM on my treadmill, and a HRM watch.  All use the chest strap.  And the ONLY one that is accurate is the watch.  The other ones fluctuate wildly sometimes.

As far as a HRM on a bike, my own personal opinion is anything that takes your eyes off the road and to a downward focus on a tiny computer screen is a bad idea, especially if you are over 40.  Once you hit 40, the time it takes for our eyes to adjust from distance to up close focusing on a small screen is long enough that you might find yourself wrecking your bike.  

I'd stick watch.  Program it to tone when you within your target heart rate, so you have no need to look at it.


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## heathpack (Apr 16, 2013)

x3 skier said:


> Welcome. I would note Skitracks recorded me doing a max of 71 and 68 MPH on a couple of days.  The rest of the time it was pretty accurate.
> 
> After the 68 MPH recording, I calibrated it with my car speedo and it was pretty close but I doubt I hit 68 on skis unless it is a suppressed memory.
> 
> Cheers



I used to use an app like this with the bike and would sometimes get reading like this.  I always assumed the phone had briefly lost GPS signal and then picked you up again.  My thought was because you had a sudden jump in your GPS data points, the app thought you had moved from point A to point B more quickly than you actually had, hence the sudden change in speed.

Anyway, my phone has lost ability to track my location accurately with GPS for these types of apps.  I have MapMyRide and RunKeeper.  Neither can follow me accurately anymore (although google maps works fine, so it seems to be app specific)- I get a zig zag course that claims I have ridden way more miles than I actually have.

Im not sure what the issue actually is, and I didn't put too much mental energy into it once I realized I needed the cadence and HR info as well.

H


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## SMHarman (Apr 16, 2013)

heathpack said:


> Anyway, my phone has lost ability to track my location accurately with GPS for these types of apps.  I have MapMyRide and RunKeeper.  Neither can follow me accurately anymore (although google maps works fine, so it seems to be app specific)- I get a zig zag course that claims I have ridden way more miles than I actually have.
> 
> Im not sure what the issue actually is, and I didn't put too much mental energy into it once I realized I needed the cadence and HR info as well.
> 
> H


The Phone is on some energy saver GPS mode which means it gets GPS positions less frequently.


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## SMHarman (Apr 16, 2013)

x3 skier said:


> Welcome. I would note Skitracks recorded me doing a max of 71 and 68 MPH on a couple of days.  The rest of the time it was pretty accurate.
> 
> After the 68 MPH recording, I calibrated it with my car speedo and it was pretty close but I doubt I hit 68 on skis unless it is a suppressed memory.
> 
> Cheers


I know friends that have done gate times of 107kph / 66mph
I know I have GPS readings that show at least 50mph.
http://connect.garmin.com/player/24288299
I know one of the reasons I bought a helmet for skiing was when I got a GPS watch and realised just how fast I was travelling on two planks.


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## x3 skier (Apr 16, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> I know friends that have done gate times of 107kph / 66mph
> I know I have GPS readings that show at least 50mph.
> http://connect.garmin.com/player/24288299
> I know one of the reasons I bought a helmet for skiing was when I got a GPS watch and realised just how fast I was travelling on two planks.



My Daily Peaks are usually around 45-50 MPH but 60-70 is a little suspicious. 

Cheers


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

*Update on the Garmin*

Ive been meaning for awhile to come back and post a follow-up on the Garmin and I was reading through the old posts.  I have been bitten badly by the cycling bug and lol on the question "how many miles can you really ride in a year?". The answer to that is my case is 3000 and i don't even consider that to be a lot.  My first century (100 mi) ride is this coming Saturday.  I have trained a lot for it though, including training rides of 75, 80 and 93 miles, so I'm feeling pretty good about it.  I am totally intrigued by the whole training process and can't even conceive of riding without my Garmin and associated data.  I even really want to buy a power meter (a better training tool than HR monitor) but I am in the process of buying a fancy new bike and don't want to spend the money or take the time to research yet another piece of bike equipment.

So the bottom line is: For me, the Garmin is an indispensable training tool.  HR, speed and cadence sensors are critical numbers that I track throughout my rides and also on my stationary trainer (well, not speed on the trainer).  The ability to upload data to your personal page on the Garmin site and then later analyze that data in all sorts of ways is also crucial when you are training a little more formally like I am. The GPS mapping feature is of zero use to me, it turns out.  But what I did not realize when I bought the Garmin is that the GPS feature allows me to send an email link to anyone I want and then that person can track me in real time.  This is very important when I do long rides alone, Mr. H can track my progress and "keep and eye on me".  So it turns out I bought exactly the best unit for me, even though I kind of lucked into it.

So two thumbs up on the Garmin, at least for cyclists who want to train for an event.

H


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## persia (Feb 5, 2014)

COuldn't you just use a phone app?


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

persia said:


> COuldn't you just use a phone app?



No, you can't.

Won't measure your heart rate.  Won't measure your cadence (pedal speed).  Won't measure your elevation (the Garmin has an altimeter).

Say for example, your primary consideration is building aerobic endurance (the first thing you build as a cyclist).  You need to ride at a heart rate that reflects a relatively low effort for you for many many miles.  You want to ride these high volume miles at a high cadence.  If your effort is too high, your training is counter-productive at that stage of your conditioning.

Say next you are going to ride an event with lots of big hill climbs.  Now you need to train for hill climbing.  Your cadence will be of necessity lower, but if it's too low, that's a sign you are pushing your pedals too hard and you risk injury, especially to your knees.  You need to downshift or find a less steep hill to train on.  Your heart rate will be higher and if your effort goes past a certain point (somewhat reflected by your heart rate), you will switch into anaerobic metabolism, which results in accumulation of lactic acid in your muscles.  You cannot work much longer at the effort level, your muscles will become dysfunctional after a certain amt of lactic acid builds up.  So again you must downshift or otherwise decrease your effort.

You need to know all these variables as you are riding, plus the thing ou are attempting to accomplish in that particular training session.  You will not get the necessary data points from a phone app.

H


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## Phydeaux (Feb 5, 2014)

heathpack said:


> No, you can't.
> 
> Won't measure your heart rate.  Won't measure your cadence (pedal speed).  Won't measure your elevation (the Garmin has an altimeter).
> 
> ...




And don't forget seat height and positioning. 

Sorry, good information. Good stuff. 

It's just that I see so many well intentioned riders with the latest gear and tech, and their seats and riding position are absolutely so dead wrong. You want to shout at them "raise your bloody seat!!"

And remember, pedal in circles. Very few riders do/can. If there was only one thing you could do to improve your cycling aside from your aerobic capacity, it would be that.


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## Ridewithme38 (Feb 5, 2014)

This sounds really complicated and over involved.  Have you considered buying a car instead? It will help avoid wear and tear on your joints/knees and body and can get you places much easier and in a more relaxed state.


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

Phydeaux said:


> And don't forget seat height and positioning.
> 
> Sorry, good information. Good stuff.
> 
> ...



Phydeaux, my bike fit is *perfect* (and believe me it wasn't for a long time so I know the difference).  I have the worlds best bike fitter.  Yes that's what he does 100% of the time and not in a bike shop trying to sell you anything, either.  Just does fittings.

The process was rather fascinating & to me extraordinary.  I had what is called a prepurchase dynamic fitting.  The point is to determine what candidate bikes you should be shopping for based on frame geometry.

You start with a physical assessment- range of motion, limb length, foot shape, angulation of your limbs.  Then your arch shape is tested.  He looks at your shoes and your cleat position.

Next you hop on your own bike on a trainer.  First he videos you.  Then he puts LED sensors on your joints and you get a 3D motion capture video that turns you into a stick figure.  Then every movement of every joint is captured as you pedal (this is what makes it a dynamic fitting as opposed to the usual static fitting).

Then you get off your bike and get onto this contraption that is an adjustable bike.  He can dial in any frame geometry, bar position, seat position, crank length, etc desired.  We started with the frame geometry of my primary candidate bike.  Then he tweaks various parameters on the bike, has you pedal away and asks you "better or worse?" just like at the eye doctor, all the while measuring your power output to see if you're making choices that actually would be expected to result in better performance.  Still with the LED sensors so more 3D motion capture, stick figures, analysis of every joint position during every moment of your pedal stroke.

Finally when you're done, he sets up your current bike as ideally as possible.  You get a report with the best candidate bikes in your price range.  Then the idea is you go shopping.  Except I'd already been shopping and was in love with a bike which fortunately he said is an excellent choice.  For me, I am getting the new bike with shorter than usual cranks, narrow compact bars, and a slightly wider saddle.  Once you get your new bike, you go back for your final fitting and then for as many more as you need to get it right.

All this is taking place in the LA Velodrome, where the US and Canadian National teams are doing interval training.  And elite riders keep stopping by to ask a quick question.  Why? Because he is also the filter for both the US & Canadian national teams.

The very next day after my fitting, I started ticking off all kinds of "personal bests".  Really this guy has improved my cycling so much just in one afternoon.  And even though I say my fit is perfect, he says it's not & won't be until the new bike.  Which allegedly will be just a few more weeks.

H


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## Phydeaux (Feb 5, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Phydeaux, my bike fit is *perfect* (and believe me it wasn't for a long time so I know the difference).  I have the worlds best bike fitter.  Yes that's what he does 100% of the time and not in a bike shop trying to sell you anything, either.  Just does fittings.
> 
> The process was rather fascinating & to me extraordinary.  I had what is called a prepurchase dynamic fitting.  The point is to determine what candidate bikes you should be shopping for based on frame geometry.
> 
> ...



Cool. When's your first double century?


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

Oh yeah and based on the motion capture, I actually do have a very good pedal stroke for someone with my level of experience.  My up stroke is very nicely superimposed over my down stroke, apparently it's quite common for people to pedal in more of a figure-8 motion (which now that he mentioned, I see all the time when I am riding behind somebody).  The arc of my pedal stroke is unfortunately not parallel to the bike, but this is getting fixed on the new bike in large part by the shorter cranks (which will also take out a "dead" non-power-generating spot from the top of my pedal stroke which is occurring because my leg comes up too high at the top of my stroke).

Of course we can all improve the efficiency of our pedal stroke and it is something that I actively work on.  And there's all kinds of nuance to it with hill climbing that I can barely wrap my head around.

H


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

Phydeaux said:


> Cool. When's your first double century?



Ha, I'm actually considering next Dec.  

I have a flat century next Sat.  Then a hilly one in April.  If that goes well I might try a 70-mi ride at altitude in August.  And if that goes well (it might not, apparently 70 mi at 8000 ft altitude is approx equivalent to 140 miles at 1200 ft altitude, where I train), then maybe a hilly century at altitude in September.

Then if all that goes well, maybe the flat-ish (5000 ft climbing) double in Dec.

But that's a lot of training and a very ambitious plan for ones second year of cycling.  So all I'm really committing to for now are the first two centuries, then we'll take it from there.

Seriously if you like cycling and ever make it out to LA with your bike, you should think about the fitting.  Fascinating process. 

H


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## MULTIZ321 (Feb 5, 2014)

Heathpack,

Thanks for the updates.  I've certainly learned a lot about the intricacies of the sport of cycling.

Good luck on your Century.


Richard


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## Phydeaux (Feb 5, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Ha, I'm actually considering next Dec.
> 
> I have a flat century next Sat.  Then a hilly one in April.  If that goes well I might try a 70-mi ride at altitude in August.  And if that goes well (it might not, apparently 70 mi at 8000 ft altitude is approx equivalent to 140 miles at 1200 ft altitude, where I train), then maybe a hilly century at altitude in September.
> 
> ...



Glad you're enjoying the sport. It's wonderful, isn't it? Most people have no idea and never will, of the beauty, excitement, and passion of cycling.

As far as fitting, double centuries, criteriums, road races, triathlons, biathlons, and thousands of miles of fun, mostly fast paced touring, they're all in my past. I've moved on to now enjoy the horse powered variety of two wheeled sports. 

[IMGL]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d189/bellasogno/Motorcycling/Bellasogno_zpsccb49f92.jpg[/IMGL]

Pardon the semi-hijack. Couldn't resist. Many of us alter our passions throughout this beautiful gift of life.


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## Passepartout (Feb 5, 2014)

Who knew there was so much to just flinging a leg over the frame of a bike and going for a ride in the country, seeing the sights and smelling the smells. Hmmmpf.

Jim


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## Ridewithme38 (Feb 5, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Who knew there was so much to just flinging a leg over the frame of a bike and going for a ride in the country, seeing the sights and smelling the smells. Hmmmpf.
> 
> Jim



Bikes are a lot different now from what some of the members here remember as kids!


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## spencersmama (Feb 5, 2014)

heathpack said:


> I even really want to buy a power meter (a better training tool than HR monitor) but I am in the process of buying a fancy new bike and don't want to spend the money or take the time to research yet another piece of bike equipment.
> 
> H



As I was reading page one, I thought, "Don't spend too much money on the computer.  You'll need to save some for the bike upgrade.  I can see an upgrade in the very near future."  Haha 

My husband loves (loved) to ride his bike, too, and always has a list of upgrades, gadgets, and trips he wants to take.  I say loved because he had a tumor on his spinal cord removed three months ago and has been in a wheelchair and in physical therapy since.  He says he misses being able to walk the most but riding his bike is a close second.  He's making pretty quick progress, so I'm sure he'll be back to those centuries in no time.


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

Phydeaux said:


> Glad you're enjoying the sport. It's wonderful, isn't it? Most people have no idea and never will, of the beauty, excitement, and passion of cycling.
> 
> As far as fitting, double centuries, criteriums, road races, triathlons, biathlons, and thousands of miles of fun, mostly fast paced touring, they're all in my past. I've moved on to now enjoy the horse powered variety of two wheeled sports.
> 
> ...



No worries.  You KNOW this thread is going to get a pic of the new bike when it arrives.

And you will all be underwhelmed.  It is a very understated bike.  The color is "Stealth"



H


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

spencersmama said:


> As I was reading page one, I thought, "Don't spend too much money on the computer.  You'll need to save some for the bike upgrade.  I can see an upgrade in the very near future."  Haha
> 
> My husband loves (loved) to ride his bike, too, and always has a list of upgrades, gadgets, and trips he wants to take.  I say loved because he had a tumor on his spinal cord removed three months ago and has been in a wheelchair and in physical therapy since.  He says he misses being able to walk the most but riding his bike is a close second.  He's making pretty quick progress, so I'm sure he'll be back to those centuries in no time.



Aw, I did not know that he was sick.  I hope he is back on his bike soon!

H


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## pjrose (Feb 5, 2014)

heathpack said:


> . . .
> You need to know all these variables as you are riding, plus the thing ou are attempting to accomplish in that particular training session.  You will not get the necessary data points from a phone app.



Can you measure calories burned in order to determine how many mini-pies and zoku pops you can have LOL?  



Ridewithme38 said:


> This sounds really complicated and over involved.  Have you considered buying a car instead? It will help avoid wear and tear on your joints/knees and body and can get you places much easier and in a more relaxed state.



And more time for the culinary arts!


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> Who knew there was so much to just flinging a leg over the frame of a bike and going for a ride in the country, seeing the sights and smelling the smells. Hmmmpf.
> 
> Jim



Jim, you can totally do that too.  That's what's nice about cycling.  You can keep it simple or got a little loonie about the technical aspects. It's got a little something for everybody.

H


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## Ridewithme38 (Feb 5, 2014)

This bike looks interesting...the YikeBike






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbxp...kc&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_266322


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## heathpack (Feb 5, 2014)

pjrose said:


> Can you measure calories burned in order to determine how many mini-pies and zoku pops you can have LOL?
> 
> 
> 
> And more time for the culinary arts!



Lol, PJ, I have been training for my century ride since the day we got back from WKORV, Nov 17.  That's a total of 12 weeks, with two weeks of reduced training and 10 weeks of normal training.

During this training time, according to my Garmin I have burned.... drum roll, please....

30,000 calories

Which is probably pretty accurate because I've also lost 8 pounds.  Truthfully some of that just normal post-vacation weight loss.  But still, I'm not complaining.  Sigh, I have 10 more pounds to go to make my ideal hill climbing weight.  (Good hill climbers are skinny like whippets.)

H


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## lvhmbh (Feb 6, 2014)

Just back to this thread.  Thanks for the updates Heathpack (was reading it as heaLthpack for a while ).   Here in the Boca area we have a large number of biking clubs and I see them zipping by.  There are some fellas that train in the early a.m. when I ride.  They are nice to wave at a woman riding a Townie (3 speed but old fashioned sit up straight bike with Fat Frank tires).  I ride 10 miles and think that's alot but I meander in comparison to you.  Good luck with your riding!


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## heathpack (Feb 6, 2014)

lvhmbh said:


> Just back to this thread.  Thanks for the updates Heathpack (was reading it as heaLthpack for a while ).   Here in the Boca area we have a large number of biking clubs and I see them zipping by.  There are some fellas that train in the early a.m. when I ride.  They are nice to wave at a woman riding a Townie (3 speed but old fashioned sit up straight bike with Fat Frank tires).  I ride 10 miles and think that's alot but I meander in comparison to you.  Good luck with your riding!



It is my policy to greet everyone I come across. It's my observation that pretty much all cyclists greet me back.  I therefore conclude cycling makes one happy.  Joggers?  Sorry they are GRIM.  Never say hello back or even seem to acknowledge my "good morning.". I conclude jogging makes people unhappy.  

Lol on the 10 miles, that used to be my long ride only one year ago.  Now it is my warm-up.  When I'm making up my training plan, I find myself writing things like "short, easy ride 35-45mi".   It's funny how much things can chage in a year.

H


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## Phydeaux (Feb 6, 2014)

heathpack said:


> No worries.  You KNOW this thread is going to get a pic of the new bike when it arrives.
> 
> *And you will all be underwhelmed.  It is a very understated bike.*  The color is "Stealth"
> 
> ...



I'd like to see your new bike, and I'm sure it'll be a nice one. But honestly, bikes don't impress me. Nor do the other tools of sports. It's what people can do with and on them that gets my attention. 

Cycling is like many sports. The tool doesn't make it, the user does. Put a fit athlete on a mediocre or crappy bike, and they'll smoke most anyone on their $5K state-of-the-art carbon wonder. I'm sure you'd agree.


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## heathpack (Feb 6, 2014)

Phydeaux said:


> I'd like to see your new bike, and I'm sure it'll be a nice one. But honestly, bikes don't impress me. Nor do the other tools of sports. It's what people can do with and on them that gets my attention.
> 
> Cycling is like many sports. The tool doesn't make it, the user does. Put a fit athlete on a mediocre or crappy bike, and they'll smoke most anyone on their $5K state-of-the-art carbon wonder. I'm sure you'd agree.



Lol, I have zero interest in being better than anyone else or "smoking" someone.  I don't get the idea of bike racing.  For me it's all about the training process, personal achievement, enjoyment on the bike.  Not that I'm criticizing an interest in racing in any way.  You get to know a lot of men if you get into cycling, and I find it charming how much they care about their skills, speed, etc relative to others.  I think bike racing appeals by its very nature to the male psyche.  And of course plenty of female psyches, just not mine, lol.

So I went out and did these test rides on new bikes.  Mostly they were just bikes with various attractive features.  Then I rode "the one" and boy that was different.  A thing of functional perfection.  I actually forgot I was riding a bike at some point, my mind wandered off and I rode 2 miles past my turn around point.  Everything about it was just "right".  Funny thing was then later I read a review in an Austalian cycling mag and that reviewer mentioned the same experience riding the bike.

Looking at the bike and me on it, you probably would not be impressed at all.  I'm not blazing fast.  I'm have little expectation smoking anyone.  For me, it's more about how I feel internally when I'm riding and the feeling of mastery when I become able to easily accomplish something that used to be hard.

H


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## Phydeaux (Feb 6, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Lol, I have zero interest in being better than anyone else or "smoking" someone.  I don't get the idea of bike racing.  For me it's all about the training process, personal achievement, enjoyment on the bike.  Not that I'm criticizing an interest in racing in any way.  You get to know a lot of men if you get into cycling, and I find it charming how much they care about their skills, speed, etc relative to others.  I think bike racing appeals by its very nature to the male psyche.  And of course plenty of female psyches, just not mine, lol.
> 
> So I went out and did these test rides on new bikes.  Mostly they were just bikes with various attractive features.  Then I rode "the one" and boy that was different.  A thing of functional perfection.  I actually forgot I was riding a bike at some point, my mind wandered off and I rode 2 miles past my turn around point.  Everything about it was just "right".  Funny thing was then later I read a review in an Austalian cycling mag and that reviewer mentioned the same experience riding the bike.
> 
> ...



I get it. After all, it's what makes the world go 'round. You're in the mainstream of the cycling demographic. You ride for you, and no one else. That's cool, and it's the reason most people ride. Others ride for other reasons, whether to better their own personal best, competition, long distance, sprinting, velodrome tactics, social interaction, etc. Enjoy it! It's a wonderful sport! It's whatever you want it to be.

I may have missed it - What bike are you buying? make/model?


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## heathpack (Feb 6, 2014)

Phydeaux said:


> I get it. After all, it's what makes the world go 'round. You're in the mainstream of the cycling demographic. You ride for you, and no one else. That's cool, and it's the reason most people ride. Others ride for other reasons, whether to better their own personal best, competition, long distance, sprinting, velodrome tactics, social interaction, etc. Enjoy it! It's a wonderful sport! It's whatever you want it to be.
> 
> I may have missed it - What bike are you buying? make/model?



BMC GF01.  It's a newer bike, only out for a few years now.  It's big selling point is long distance comfort, but it is raced in long distance races too, so it's not a slug.  I'm holding out for the 2014 model which is not yet available for a few weeks.

Here's a link to an article on the bike.  The picture in the article is a different year/model.  Mine will be "Stealth" color, which is black frame with white letters and white bar tape.  But I am switching out the bar tape.  I will leave it as a surprise what color I bought.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2013/07/14/why-you-need-want-a-new-road-bike/

H


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## heathpack (Feb 8, 2014)

*Rode my Century Ride today....*

104 miles (personal best distance) in 6 hr 59 min.  I really wanted to ride it under 7 hours so I am very happy. Y'all should have seen me for the last 10 miles- I had to really step pretty lively to make my time goal.  My typical average pace is 13-13.5 mph (which is pretty slow), today's ride was 14.8 mph.  So the "under 7 hour" goal was pretty ambitious, I'm totally stoked!



H


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## MULTIZ321 (Feb 9, 2014)

heathpack said:


> 104 miles (personal best distance) in 6 hr 59 min.  I really wanted to ride it under 7 hours so I am very happy. Y'all should have seen me for the last 10 miles- I had to really step pretty lively to make my time goal.  My typical average pace is 13-13.5 mph (which is pretty slow), today's ride was 14.8 mph.  So the "under 7 hour" goal was pretty ambitious, I'm totally stoked!
> 
> 
> 
> H



Terrific! I'd be stoked too.  Congratuations on your personal best.

Thanks for the updates.

Richard


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## ottawasquaw (Feb 10, 2014)

heathpack said:


> 104 miles (personal best distance) in 6 hr 59 min.  I really wanted to ride it under 7 hours so I am very happy. Y'all should have seen me for the last 10 miles- I had to really step pretty lively to make my time goal.  My typical average pace is 13-13.5 mph (which is pretty slow), today's ride was 14.8 mph.  So the "under 7 hour" goal was pretty ambitious, I'm totally stoked!
> 
> 
> 
> H



I just came across your thread and your mileage is impressive! Yes, I'd say you've been bit hard. Is your bike carbon fiber? Nice! I was given a cateye computer for my bike years ago and they are handy!
Like you, I wanted to track my cadence. I wanted to build my endurance though I'm not sure I'll ever get a century under my belt unless it's a metric. The computer my local bike shop had came with a HRM and I don't regret it. Of course, it's after the ride that I am tracking most of these numbers. Still, it's the best way to track your progress through the season.
Your fitter sounds a bit like my experience in getting fit for custom golf clubs. Glad to hear you've gotten so much enjoyment out of your investment!


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## heathpack (Feb 10, 2014)

ottawasquaw said:


> I just came across your thread and your mileage is impressive! Yes, I'd say you've been bit hard. Is your bike carbon fiber? Nice! I was given a cateye computer for my bike years ago and they are handy!
> Like you, I wanted to track my cadence. I wanted to build my endurance though I'm not sure I'll ever get a century under my belt unless it's a metric. The computer my local bike shop had came with a HRM and I don't regret it. Of course, it's after the ride that I am tracking most of these numbers. Still, it's the best way to track your progress through the season.
> Your fitter sounds a bit like my experience in getting fit for custom golf clubs. Glad to hear you've gotten so much enjoyment out of your investment!



Yes, it's a carbon bike.  It will be the easiest 5 pounds I ever lost.  

H


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## heathpack (Feb 28, 2014)

I got the new bike finally and I love it beyond words.  I am floored by how much better it is than my old bike.  Easily 10x better.  Lol, which is great news because I paid 10x for it compared to my previous bike.  It's probably a good thing though, it'll keep me from buying another timeshare for awhile.






H


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## ace2000 (Feb 28, 2014)

Holy Cow!  I am so jealous!  Nice choice.


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## ace2000 (Feb 28, 2014)

I ride my bike 15 miles to and from work everyday, depending on the weather.  Also, joined the local bike club last year.  I have a couple of used Craigslist "specials" (paid about $700 used).  Both of them had to black, just like yours.  Heath, I've enjoyed reading about your journey here.

That's the nicest looking bike I've seen!


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## heathpack (Feb 28, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> I ride my bike 15 miles to and from work everyday, depending on the weather.  Also, joined the local bike club last year.  I have a couple of used Craigslist "specials" (paid about $700 used).  Both of them had to black, just like yours.  Heath, I've enjoyed reading about your journey here.
> 
> That's the nicest looking bike I've seen!



Ace, it's all carbon, 5 pounds lighter than my previous bike.  Electronic shifting, which is so smooth it's unbelievable.  Shorter cranks, which has increased my pedal speed but resulted in this "light" feeling to my feet as I pedal, so much different and really great.  Very brilliantly engineered bike, it's stiff where it needs to be stiff and bendy where it needs to be bendy.  Very fluid and balanced in its movements.  I am a pretty new cyclist & I was afraid I would not be able to appreciate but it is totally awesome in every way.  I can't believe how much I love this bike.

H


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## Elan (Feb 28, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Ace, it's all carbon, 5 pounds lighter than my previous bike.  Electronic shifting, which is so smooth it's unbelievable.  Shorter cranks, which has increased my pedal speed but resulted in this "light" feeling to my feet as I pedal, so much different and really great.  Very brilliantly engineered bike, it's stiff where it needs to be stiff and bendy where it needs to be bendy.  Very fluid and balanced in its movements.  I am a pretty new cyclist & I was afraid I would not be able to appreciate but it is totally awesome in every way.  I can't believe how much I love this bike.
> 
> H



  CF is a different feel, isn't it?  If you want a really sweet feeling ride, find a seventies or eighties vintage upper end touring bike with a steel frame.

  Nice bike, BTW! Looks quite similar to my Giant.


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## heathpack (Mar 1, 2014)

Elan said:


> CF is a different feel, isn't it?  If you want a really sweet feeling ride, find a seventies or eighties vintage upper end touring bike with a steel frame.
> 
> Nice bike, BTW! Looks quite similar to my Giant.



Pics, please, Elan.  I want to see your bicycle.

Yes the carbon is a great feeling, but beyond that is the specific engineering/design of this bike.  It's light, flexible and stiff all at the same time.  It just feels "right"

H


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## Elan (Mar 1, 2014)

heathpack said:


> *Pics, please*, Elan.  I want to see your bicycle.
> 
> Yes the carbon is a great feeling, but beyond that is the specific engineering/design of this bike.  It's light, flexible and stiff all at the same time.  It just feels "right"
> 
> H



  I'll try to get some pic's this weekend.  Given that we're just now escaping winter up here, I'll need to wipe the dust off before it's "picture worthy".


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## heathpack (Mar 1, 2014)

Elan said:


> I'll try to get some pic's this weekend.  Given that we're just now escaping winter up here, I'll need to wipe the dust off before it's "picture worthy".



Staying tuned...

H


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## Elan (Mar 1, 2014)

heathpack said:


> Staying tuned...
> 
> H



  Here's a quick and dirty, literally.  It's raining here, or I'd drag it out into the sunlight where it looks much better.  It's black CF with royal blue and white as you go toward the head tube and rear dropout.  

  Ignore the garage clutter in the background.


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## heathpack (Mar 1, 2014)

Elan said:


> Here's a quick and dirty, literally.  It's raining here, or I'd drag it out into the sunlight where it looks much better.  It's black CF with royal blue and white as you go toward the head tube and rear dropout.
> 
> Ignore the garage clutter in the background.



Hey Jim, yes get a pic in the sun but that is a good looking bike.  I like the black/blue color scheme, as you can tell by my bike which is black, white & blue.

  

H


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## Passepartout (Mar 1, 2014)

I have no intention to hijack the thread, but do any of you have feelings one way or another about electric bikes? I have a mountain bike that I take on the occasional ride on paved paths through a couple of the canyons that skirt the town. I have thought that perhaps if I felt like there were less uphills (or the wind was always pushing) I'd ride more. I see these are available at a local bike shop, or on Amazon. 20mph with 30-50 mile range- more by peddling. It weighs nearly 60 lbs, so just hefting it up to hang from the garage ceiling for winter storage is no small item- or loading into the pickup.
http://prodecotech.com/bikes/phantom-x3-2014/ It is available also as a folder- which might come in handy with the RV trailer.

I guess the question is, (which only I could answer) would I actually get out and ride enough to justify it which I don't now on a perfectly suitable 'comfort/mountain' bike? And would I use it to run errands around town if a suitable basket or panniers could be used to carry stuff? 

I don't foresee squeezing my aged semi-fluffy self into day-glo official biking duds to go for a ride hunched over on a high tech road bike with 1/2" wide tires.

Jim


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## heathpack (Mar 1, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I have no intention to hijack the thread, but do any of you have feelings one way or another about electric bikes? I have a mountain bike that I take on the occasional ride on paved paths through a couple of the canyons that skirt the town. I have thought that perhaps if I felt like there were less uphills (or the wind was always pushing) I'd ride more. I see these are available at a local bike shop, or on Amazon. 20mph with 30-50 mile range- more by peddling. It weighs nearly 60 lbs, so just hefting it up to hang from the garage ceiling for winter storage is no small item- or loading into the pickup.
> http://prodecotech.com/bikes/phantom-x3-2014/ It is available also as a folder- which might come in handy with the RV trailer.
> 
> I guess the question is, (which only I could answer) would I actually get out and ride enough to justify it which I don't now on a perfectly suitable 'comfort/mountain' bike? And would I use it to run errands around town if a suitable basket or panniers could be used to carry stuff?
> ...



Hi Jim,

I don't know the first hand answer to your question, maybe somebody who does will post here.  But I can't imagine that it would be fun to ride a 60 pound bike during the times you pedal it.  It's just too heavy.  Maybe weigh your current bike?  I would guess its probably around 30 pounds.

If your issue is going uphill/into wind (basically the same thing), you want some small gears (which you probably have on your mt bike), narrower tires, well-inflated tires (per manufacturer specs, inflated to pressure for every ride), lubricated chain/tuned up bike, and the lightest person-bike complex you can get (ie lose weight from either yourself or your bike or both, I mean that purely based on physics, no judging anyone else's weight  ).  The other thing is you just have to do it & it gets easier and easier.

C'mon, you know you want to ride your bike, right?

H


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## ace2000 (Mar 2, 2014)

Here's a picture of my bike.  Bought "like new" off Craigslist for $700.  The bike is actually about 5 years old, but in perfect shape.  In a few years, I'll be looking for a bike in your category Heath.


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## ace2000 (Mar 2, 2014)

While shopping, I was overwhelmed by all the choices.  Heath (or Elan) , how did you go about deciding on what to buy?  What made you select that one? 

I spent some time searching for a new bike and made a few test rides.  I had a hard time figuring out what bike feature was worth the price.  So, I just decided to go "used" Cannondale R1000 this time, and then make a more informed choice in the future.  I knew my limit was $1000.  I also "had" to have a black one.   

During the same time period, I also purchased a one-speed Kona Paddy Wagon.  Also, "like new" for $400.  I will typically ride this one or my mountain bike (in bad weather) to work each day.


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## heathpack (Mar 2, 2014)

ace2000 said:


> While shopping, I was overwhelmed by all the choices.  Heath (or Elan) , how did you go about deciding on what to buy?  What made you select that one?
> 
> I spent some time searching for a new bike and made a few test rides.  I had a hard time figuring out what bike feature was worth the price.  So, I just decided to go "used" Cannondale R1000 this time, and then make a more informed choice in the future.  I knew my limit was $1000.  I also "had" to have a black one.
> 
> During the same time period, I also purchased a one-speed Kona Paddy Wagon.  Also, "like new" for $400.  I will typically ride this one or my mountain bike (in bad weather) to work each day.



When I first started cycling, I bought the cheapest decent bike that I could find until I decided whether I liked cycling and if I liked it, where I wanted to go with the sport.  Until very recently, I was riding that bike which cost $600 new.  In the first 8 months I had the bike I discovered that my "thing" is endurance riding- my interest/aptitude is for long distance events, in the ballpark of 100 miles.  I also ride in California which has lots of big hills.  So I need a bike that is geared for hills and ideally is as light as I can afford (the lighter the better when climbing hills).  Also wanted a bike made of a more compliant material than aluminum (which is light but stiff).  I ruled out steel (compliant) because of weight, which put me looking for a carbon fiber bike.  And finally, there are bike designed for endurance riding, with optimized engineering, design, frame geometry, components, etc, to ride comfortably very long distances.  Once you narrow all that down, there are only really 6-8 candidate bikes to consider.

In my case, a friend who is an avid cyclist recommended that I see her fitter.  The guy has an adjustable bike and he can dial in the frame geometry of various candidate bikes and tell you prior to purchase which would be best for your personal physique.  So that's what I did and he narrowed my shopping list down to three bikes.

From there I test rode two of the three candidate bikes and once I rode the BMC, the shopping process was done for me.  I was in love and 100% had to have it.  

I would suggest that if you're not sure what you want, just ride your current bike until you know where you want to go with cycling.  Your current bike is after all, very attractive.  

H


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