# hilton rofr  (march 2009 thread)



## eugeneleemd (Mar 4, 2009)

still waiting for my kalia eoy (purchased dec 4th!!!) rofr to pass. does anyone know exactly how long hgvc has to exercise that right? is it 30 days??


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## Talent312 (Mar 4, 2009)

30-days sounds right.  In my case (Seaworld), it was 30 days, and it only took two weeks.  But it depends on the transfer terms that were in effect when your seller took title.

HGVC has a "waiver request" form they want you to use in which you give them your proposed closing date at least 30 days out, and attach a copy of your contract.  I would call the closing agent to see it they've observed this procedure.


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## eugeneleemd (Mar 4, 2009)

so just got off the phone with the hgvc. hgvc has 15 days rofr, and then 30 additional days to close the sale.  interestingly they have no record that my kalia purchase has been submitted yet nor has the deed been submitted to county for recording. thetimesharecompany.com is killing me


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## SusieQ927 (Mar 4, 2009)

could someone advise what to expect on HGVC Seaworld, meaning what resale price could I expect to pay, versus what resale price would Hilton buy instead

any ideas what a good rule of them would be these days as I know I'll be wanting to buy more points

thanks


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## DEROS (Mar 4, 2009)

*It could be broker*

It is incumbent on the broker to request a ROFR.  It looks like nothing is happening.  When I purchased my timeshare it took about 20-30 days for the letter to come in.  It took a total of 3 months from offer to close.

Deros


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## Bill4728 (Mar 4, 2009)

SusieQ927 said:


> could someone advise what to expect on HGVC Seaworld, meaning what resale price could I expect to pay, versus what resale price would Hilton buy instead
> 
> any ideas what a good rule of them would be these days as I know I'll be wanting to buy more points
> 
> thanks


There was a report just a few days ago that a 7000 pt Seaworld passed ROFR at $11,500


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## prosperitylove79 (Mar 4, 2009)

SusieQ927 said:


> could someone advise what to expect on HGVC Seaworld, meaning what resale price could I expect to pay, versus what resale price would Hilton buy instead
> 
> any ideas what a good rule of them would be these days as I know I'll be wanting to buy more points
> 
> thanks



I just purchased a 5000 point Seaworld for $5400 and a 7000 point Las Vegas Hilton for $11,300...Seth Nock was very helpful.  I am surprised by the amount of time it is taking for some of you.  Seaworld took 10 days and Las Vegas took 15 days...maybe it is different for each timeshare?

Also - is it possible to buy extra points?  I have not seen anything regarding this...


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## Talent312 (Mar 4, 2009)

prosperitylove79 said:


> ... - is it possible to buy extra points?  I have not seen anything regarding this...



The only way to get additional points is to buy a unit; however, if you run out of points in any year and want to book a longer or another stay:  (1) you can borrow points from the following year; (2) make an "open season" reservation for a stay within 30 days; or (3) book a "Hilton-Hotel" stay at a HGVC resort using HHonors points or <cough> money.


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## Seth Nock (Mar 5, 2009)

Right of First Refusal is 30 days at most of the resorts, 15 days at Las Vegas Strip property.  For Platinum 7000 points at Sea World and Las Vegas Hilton, about 2/3 of my sales in the low 11 k level has passed right of first refusal, about 1/3 has been bought back. Tuscany and Las Vegas Strip is being exercised at significantly higher amounts.  If you need additional points, typically you can rent them or buy another unit or borrow.  Some of my past buyers will call me and I have arranged for rentals (I am sure other brokers may do the same for their buyers).


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## alwysonvac (Mar 6, 2009)

*Requesting clarification*



Seth Nock said:


> If you need additional points, typically you can rent them or buy another unit or borrow.  Some of my past buyers will call me and I have arranged for rentals (I am sure other brokers may do the same for their buyers).



Can you (as an approved broker) actually transfer rented points into an owner's account or are you simply renting a HGVC reservation?

Thanks


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## Seth Nock (Mar 7, 2009)

Actually, as of Jan 1, there are no approved brokers anymore (I know other brokers still advertise it) but there are no approved resale brokers anymore.  Typically, if one of my buyers needs additional points, I would make the reservation and rent it.


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## PigsDad (Mar 7, 2009)

Seth Nock said:


> Actually, as of Jan 1, there are no approved brokers anymore



Very interesting!  If you don't mind me asking, what affect will that new policy have on existing brokers?  Are some of your activities curtailed?

Kurt


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## Seth Nock (Mar 7, 2009)

PigsDad said:


> Very interesting!  If you don't mind me asking, what affect will that new policy have on existing brokers?  Are some of your activities curtailed?
> 
> Kurt



It should not really change things.  Authorized HGVC Brokers started a Few year ago.  Judi Kozlowski was one of the first (about a year before I was).  As an Authorized Broker we not only had access to our listings, but to Hilton's as well.  Judi had(s) many of her own listings as well as Hilton's.  I tended to use Cobroker listings, my listings and once I became a Hilton Broker, Hilton's listings as well.  

I always thought it was more important to use licensed broker and a licensed and bonded escrow company who will take care of their clients and customers, should any issues arise (not necessarily an authorized broker).   We still have access to Hilton's inventory (although, with the current US economic state, I am using mostly cobroker and preforeclosure inventory, as it can usually be sold for less than Hilton's listings). So, I don't think it makes much of a difference that the "authorized broker status" has been removed.


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## angelc (Mar 9, 2009)

Seth Nock said:


> Right of First Refusal is 30 days at most of the resorts, 15 days at Las Vegas Strip property.  For Platinum 7000 points at Sea World and Las Vegas Hilton, about 2/3 of my sales in the low 11 k level has passed right of first refusal, about 1/3 has been bought back. Tuscany and Las Vegas Strip is being exercised at significantly higher amounts.  If you need additional points, typically you can rent them or buy another unit or borrow.  Some of my past buyers will call me and I have arranged for rentals (I am sure other brokers may do the same for their buyers).



Seth, We are looking for the best sale price at the Hilton Flamingo, we already own 3,400 points in South Beach, looking for more points.

Thanks

Angel


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## gshipley (Mar 10, 2009)

angelc said:


> Seth, We are looking for the best sale price at the Hilton Flamingo, we already own 3,400 points in South Beach, looking for more points.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Angel



I am also interested to know what the going price is for 7000 flamingo points.  I currently have mine listed at 10,500 with Judy.


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## Seth Nock (Mar 10, 2009)

gshipley said:


> I am also interested to know what the going price is for 7000 flamingo points.  I currently have mine listed at 10,500 with Judy.



Net or gross? If it is gross, she should have buyers standing on line for it.


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## gshipley (Mar 10, 2009)

Seth Nock said:


> Net or gross? If it is gross, she should have buyers standing on line for it.



Gross.  I have just been wondering if the economy is so bad that people are not willing to pay 10,500 for 7000 plat points with no ROFR.  The one thing that may be slowing it down is that I have 400 points remaining for 2009.


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## Seth Nock (Mar 11, 2009)

I know both Judi and I have buyers for that unit.


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## natarajanv (Mar 11, 2009)

you could have sold it yourself by placing an ad here at the timeshare marketplace for that price. There is one unit similar to yours on ebay currently bidding at $9020.00 which is going to end in 9 hours.


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## gshipley (Mar 11, 2009)

natarajanv said:


> you could have sold it yourself by placing an ad here at the timeshare marketplace for that price. There is one unit similar to yours on ebay currently bidding at $9020.00 which is going to end in 9 hours.



After reading my previous posts I think I may have unintentionally given an unclear description of my situation.


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## gshipley (Mar 11, 2009)

*Found a buyer*

Just wanted to update everyone...... I received an offer on my timeshare this afternoon and it appears the sale will go smoothly.


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## pacman (Mar 11, 2009)

Gshipley

Do you mind telling us what kind of offer you received? Just wondering where the market at now. If you'd rather not say, no problem, I understand.

pacman


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## capjak (Mar 11, 2009)

natarajanv said:


> you could have sold it yourself by placing an ad here at the timeshare marketplace for that price. There is one unit similar to yours on ebay currently bidding at $9020.00 which is going to end in 9 hours.



Ebay sold for 9120 so I guess that is what it is worth in today's market maybe a little more or less.


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## gshipley (Mar 12, 2009)

pacman said:


> Gshipley
> 
> Do you mind telling us what kind of offer you received? Just wondering where the market at now. If you'd rather not say, no problem, I understand.
> 
> pacman



I don't mind saying at all.


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## natarajanv (Mar 12, 2009)

That is a great price for a seller. I guess, we cant use ebay as a pricing point.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 12, 2009)

natarajanv said:


> I guess, we cant use ebay as a pricing point.


  The pricing on HGVC on ebay is subject to Hilton's ROFR (all but the HGVC at the Flamingo which doesn't have ROFR). So as a buyer, you have no idea of what purchase price it will take to get pass Hilton's ROFR. Therefore the ebay prices for HGVC are of very little relevance.


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## gshipley (Mar 12, 2009)

Bill4728 said:


> The pricing on HGVC on ebay is subject to Hilton's ROFR (all but the HGVC at the Flamingo which doesn't have ROFR). So as a buyer, you have no idea of what purchase price it will take to get pass Hilton's ROFR. Therefore the ebay prices for HGVC are of very little relevance.



I would also think that prices on ebay are lower because a lot of people don't trust buying things on ebay.  I personally only buy and sell timeshares (or any property) through licensed agents.  I just feel more secure in the purchase this way and am willing to pay a few extra dollars for the peace of mind.


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## timeos2 (Mar 12, 2009)

*EBAY price is what the seller gets no matter ROFR or not*



Bill4728 said:


> The pricing on HGVC on ebay is subject to Hilton's ROFR (all but the HGVC at the Flamingo which doesn't have ROFR). So as a buyer, you have no idea of what purchase price it will take to get pass Hilton's ROFR. Therefore the ebay prices for HGVC are of very little relevance.



Not really as those are the prices the seller gets regardless of who ends up with the week (the legitimate 3rd party buyer or the ROFR stolen by the developer). Plus most groups - HGVC sees to be in with the them - aren't actively exercising ROFR now anyway as existing inventories are too large and available cash for developers too small for them to do it.  While I would avoid any property that has ROFR if you MUST buy one now is probably the best time.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 12, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> Not really as those are the prices the seller gets regardless of who ends up with the week (the legitimate 3rd party buyer or the ROFR stolen by the developer). Plus most groups - HGVC sees to be in with the them - aren't actively exercising ROFR now anyway as existing inventories are too large and available cash for developers too small for them to do it.  While I would avoid any property that has ROFR if you MUST buy one now is probably the best time.


For the seller, ROFR doesn't help you get a better price, but as a buyer, seeing low prices on Ebay, doesn't tell you if those prices are getting thru ROFR.  So when you see a platinum 7000 pt HGVC in LV sell for $9,300, you have no idea if you can actually buy & close on that TS at that price. Seth has said that most HGVC -LV TS are not passing ROFR until they are above $11,000. So recent Ebay prices are not relevant to any buyer looking to buy a HGVC in LV.


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## natarajanv (Mar 12, 2009)

gshipley said:


> I would also think that prices on ebay are lower because a lot of people don't trust buying things on ebay.  I personally only buy and sell timeshares (or any property) through licensed agents.  I just feel more secure in the purchase this way and am willing to pay a few extra dollars for the peace of mind.



If you look at ebay auctions 9 out of 10 are by Judy from remax anyways......


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## Seth Nock (Mar 12, 2009)

capjak said:


> Ebay sold for 9120 so I guess that is what it is worth in today's market maybe a little more or less.



It was sold by a company that I don't believe is licensed, closing without a title search and may not give the buyer clean title.  This is probably why it sold so inexpensively.


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## logan115 (Mar 16, 2010)

As a buyer, is there anything you lose other than time if a contract you bid on has ROFR exercised ?

Thanks,

Chris


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## Bill4728 (Mar 16, 2010)

logan115 said:


> As a buyer, is there anything you lose other than time if a contract you bid on has ROFR exercised ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris


You lose nothing except your time. You *should* get all your money back after HGVC takes the unit. ( but it may take some time for this to happen)


PLEASE NOTE:  HGVC is still using their ROFR. They may not use it all the time or at the same price point they did when this thread was started. BUT they are still using it.


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## logan115 (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks (again) Bill - 

Was looking at the HGVC stickies and found this thread - didn't realize until just now that this thread was from March 2009 and not March 2010.

Suppose I really need to start getting used to looking a bit closer at all the details if I'm even thinking about buying a 2nd TS  

Chris


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## logan115 (Mar 26, 2010)

Bill4728 said:


> You lose nothing except your time. *You should get all your money back after HGVC takes the unit.* ( but it may take some time for this to happen)
> 
> 
> PLEASE NOTE:  HGVC is still using their ROFR. They may not use it all the time or at the same price point they did when this thread was started. BUT they are still using it.



Sorry to keep bumping an old thread but had another HGVC ROFR question.

Above Bill mentioned that you "should" get your money back if HGVC uses ROFR - do you have to transfer over the total amount prior to finding out if you passed ROFR or not ?  Not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure when we bought DVC last year that we sent a deposit to our broker (to go into escrow), but didn't send the balance until we got word that we passed.

So with HGVC, if I purchase a contract for $5K do I need to send that money *somewhere* before I even find out about ROFR ?

Thanks,

Chris


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## PigsDad (Mar 26, 2010)

logan115 said:


> Sorry to keep bumping an old thread but had another HGVC ROFR question.
> 
> Above Bill mentioned that you "should" get your money back if HGVC uses ROFR - do you have to transfer over the total amount prior to finding out if you passed ROFR or not ?  Not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure when we bought DVC last year that we sent a deposit to our broker (to go into escrow), but didn't send the balance until we got word that we passed.
> 
> So with HGVC, if I purchase a contract for $5K do I need to send that money *somewhere* before I even find out about ROFR ?


If you use a reputable broker, you should only need the deposit (that is how our was handled).  In any case, make sure they are using a good escrow service.  That way, there will be no problem.

Kurt


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## logan115 (Mar 26, 2010)

PigsDad said:


> If you use a reputable broker, you should only need the deposit (that is how our was handled).  In any case, make sure they are using a good escrow service.  That way, there will be no problem.
> 
> Kurt



Thanks (again) Kurt - 

Didn't think that you had to send in all of the funds prior to getting the word on ROFR but wanted to make sure.

Chris


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## optimist (Mar 26, 2010)

I just purchased a Hilton through ebay and I had no choice with the closing company.  They insisted on all the money at once before they would proceed with the application for ROFR. I paid them using a credit card, thinking that I would have some recourse if things went wrong.
I am still not done so I cannot tell you that all went well but not all closing companies will agree to proceed with just a deposit.


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## logan115 (Mar 26, 2010)

optimist said:


> I just purchased a Hilton through ebay and I had no choice with the closing company.  They insisted on all the money at once before they would proceed with the application for ROFR. I paid them using a credit card, thinking that I would have some recourse if things went wrong.
> I am still not done so I cannot tell you that all went well but not all closing companies will agree to proceed with just a deposit.



Thanks for the heads up.  Didn't think about putting it on a CC as that wasn't an option when I bought DVC through a broker.  Suppose I can at least get the 1% back throwing it on my Costco Amex - unless I can get it classified as a vacation/travel expense and get 2% :hysterical: 

Chris


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## PigsDad (Mar 26, 2010)

logan115 said:


> Thanks for the heads up.  Didn't think about putting it on a CC as that wasn't an option when I bought DVC through a broker.  Suppose I can at least get the 1% back throwing it on my Costco Amex - unless I can get it classified as a vacation/travel expense and get 2% :hysterical:


When I purchased my HGVC resale through Seth, he used HGVC's closing company.  I had the Hilton HHonors Amex and charged the full amount (a good chunk of change) on the card.  Because the charge came through as a "Hilton" charge, I got the full 5 HHonors points per dollar -- the same that you get when charging Hilton hotel expenses on your card!  Normally, you only get 3 pts/$.

When we used those points toward a VIP award stay, I calculated that the HHonors points we received from the HGVC resale purchase were worth about $1,700! (hotel in Venice, Italy)  Now *that *was a great deal! :whoopie: 

We used to get the 5 pts/$ for paying maintenance fees as well, but they stopped do that a little over a year ago, I believe.

Kurt


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## logan115 (Mar 26, 2010)

PigsDad said:


> When I purchased my HGVC resale through Seth, he used HGVC's closing company.  I had the Hilton HHonors Amex and charged the full amount (a good chunk of change) on the card.  Because the charge came through as a "Hilton" charge, I got the full 5 HHonors points per dollar -- the same that you get when charging Hilton hotel expenses on your card!  Normally, you only get 3 pts/$.
> 
> When we used those points toward a VIP award stay, I calculated that the HHonors points we received from the HGVC resale purchase were worth about $1,700! (hotel in Venice, Italy)  Now *that *was a great deal! :whoopie:
> 
> ...



How many HGVC points did you buy ????????? That sounds crazy !!

Chris


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## PigsDad (Mar 27, 2010)

logan115 said:


> How many HGVC points did you buy ????????? That sounds crazy !!


We bought 8400 points (3BR Plat) a few years ago.  By the time closing costs were added in, it netted us 80K+ HHonors points through the Amex purchase.  We used those with a VIP code (back before the reward levels went up) for a $600+ / night hotel in Venice (terrible exchange rate, expensive hotel).  The 80K+ HHonors points were worth in the range of $1700 for that transaction.

If used for the very expensive hotels (usually in Europe), HHonors points can be worth quite a bit.  Another reason I really like Hilton.

Kurt


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## brp (Mar 27, 2010)

PigsDad said:


> We bought 8400 points (3BR Plat) a few years ago.  By the time closing costs were added in, it netted us 80K+ HHonors points through the Amex purchase.  We used those with a VIP code (back before the reward levels went up) for a $600+ / night hotel in Venice (terrible exchange rate, expensive hotel).  The 80K+ HHonors points were worth in the range of $1700 for that transaction.
> 
> If used for the very expensive hotels (usually in Europe), HHonors points can be worth quite a bit.  Another reason I really like Hilton.
> 
> Kurt



Hmmm...now you've got me reconsidering. I just gave HGVC a credit card to pay off the balance on a deal. I gave my Starwood Amex to get those points. I hadn't thought about the HGVC purchase coming through as "Hilton," and it may make sense to give the HH Visa instead 

Cheers.


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## mleonhardt (Jun 22, 2011)

I noticed at the presentation at the LV strip the sales folks were offering up lots of old properties that Hilton must be buying up.  What are the ROFR threshold at Sea world and some other properties such as lagoon tower


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