# Hyatt Borrowing question & quality of agents poorer than before?



## peas (Aug 7, 2015)

I have 260 points LCUP and 115 CUP = 375 total.  All MF for all resorts prepaid.

I tried to book (within LCUP period) for 3 nights = 400 points, another time for 380 pts.

Hyatt site tells me: 
You do not have enough points for this unit, please select another unit option or modify your search

I call Hyatt asking about why the borrowing option is not offered.
They recreate the error.  The agent escalates the question.

The answer I get is:
You are trying to borrow from 2017 points that would be given to you in 2016.  You will be able to borrow these 2017 points on 1/1/16, but on 12/31/15, you cannot borrow.

I don't have proof, but I'm pretty sure I borrowed a couple of times in the same time frame and I thought I was able to borrow from next year's released points [that are named points 2 years down the line].  My next points come in February.  I think I should be able to borrow from them.  

Do you buy this explanation?  Is there a reasonable explanation?  Maybe I won't be so irritated if someone validates the agent's answer or provides me a reasonable explanation.

Can someone try to borrow for something this year who has points coming next year?  Do you get this error?  The only thing I can think of is that I'm not allowed to borrow if I'm also using LCUP.  Is there someone with LCUP who has used LCUP + borrowed points to book?



At this point I'm getting the impression that these agents don't know what they're doing.

Anyone know a knowledgeable agent?  I notice that the call center message is slightly different (there is no more option for hyatt vs interval).  I'm pretty unhappy with what I think is a bogus answer today that the agent had to escalate to get.  Maybe I am willing to throw the agent under the bus because I'm still irritated about the situation below.  

I lost 60 points trying to do a retrade.  I initiated a retrade incorrectly and ended up with a new reservation vs a retrade, and the agent was successful in  backing it out.  But my retrade was out of the 60 day time frame so I had to find a stepping stone retrade then trade again to the final date I wanted.  The agent could have told me that I'm going to permanently lose 60 points if I do a re-trade by going from 740 to 800 to 740.  I just approved it, and Hyatt or Interval won't give me the points back (whether II points or hyatt points) even after escalating it to a manager because I technically did approve it.  If the agent knew my intent (which he did), I wish at the very least he would have had the foresight to say, hey, maybe this isn't the best way to get to the end goal.  Fine, my bad, but I get a sense that the agents are not very good.

All my agent contact has been in the past month.  I am not sure if this is transition pains or just a new normal.  Anyone else notice a difference?


----------



## Beaglemom3 (Aug 7, 2015)

Roberto is very good.

He explains things very well.


I once inquired about borrowing. I don't remember the details, but Roberto explained it all in a way that I could understand.



-


----------



## Tucsonadventurer (Aug 7, 2015)

Do you have 1 account for both units? We just signed a contract for a second unit and our agent is combining them into 1 account so we can book combining points.


----------



## peas (Aug 7, 2015)

Tucson traveler said:


> Do you have 1 account for both units? We just signed a contract for a second unit and our agent is combining them into 1 account so we can book combining points.



Yes, they are in one account.  You have to make sure the names are exactly the same on the docs/deed for things to be combined into one account.  At least that's what I remember being told.


----------



## bdh (Aug 7, 2015)

peas said:


> Yes, they are in one account.  You have to make sure the names are exactly the same on the docs/deed for things to be combined into one account.  At least that's what I remember being told.



Correct - name/s on both deeds must be exactly the same to co-mingle points of two weeks.


----------



## bdh (Aug 7, 2015)

peas said:


> I have 260 points LCUP and 115 CUP = 375 total.  All MF for all resorts prepaid.
> 
> I tried to book (within LCUP period) for 3 nights = 400 points, another time for 380 pts.
> 
> ...




You can borrow points from the upcoming year if you pre-pay the MF.


----------



## ivywag (Aug 7, 2015)

Borrowing is only permitted if you are reserving a unit that you will use within 60 days.


----------



## ondeadlin (Aug 8, 2015)

ivywag said:


> Borrowing is only permitted if you are reserving a unit that you will use within 60 days.



Correct.  And it's unclear from the OP if the reservation you're trying to book is within that window.

If it's a reservation that's not within the next 60 days, that's your problem.


----------



## peas (Aug 9, 2015)

One reservation was for Sept 3. (w/in 30 days)
One reservation attempt was for beginning Oct. (within 60 days)

Both were within the period of LCUP calculator which I believe is the same time period for borrowing.  Maybe that's a bad assumption of mine.

I just can't figure out what is going on.  I'm pretty sure the agent is wrong.  I'm going to call again on Monday.  But this predicament is really hindering my ability to use up the LCUP since I'm unable to borrow.


----------



## peas (Aug 11, 2015)

*Borrowing Clarification*

I need help reading/deciphering the Hyatt rules & regs.

I'm trying to borrow points to use up my LCUP points. 

Upon calling Hyatt, I keep on getting the same explanation.  The explanation being:

I have 115 2016 points (that was released in 2015) and 260 2015 points in LCUP (released in 2014).  
I want to borrow from the points that are going to be released in Feb 2016 (which would be my Feb 2017 points), but because we're in 2015, I cannot borrow from those points.  
They are claiming that I'd be trying to borrow 2 years out (in this case - from the 2017 points that are released in 2016).

I had to look up the Hyatt rules & regs:
A Club Member may Borrow all or a portion of the Member’s Club Points from the succeeding Reservation Window for use in connection with the current Reservation Window, but only to reserve an available Week or Split Week within sixty (60) days prior to the first day of use of the desired Week or Split Week.

Definition of Reservation Window in Hyatt rules & regs :
Reservation Window for Fixed Weeks shall mean the annually recurring approximately 18-month period beginning one year prior to the first day of use of the Fixed Week. 

At first blush I thought I bought the Hyatt rep's explanation.  I went to the rules to try to get clarity.  Now I'm more confused.

The current reservation window for my February week would be Feb '16 points released in Feb '15- Feb '16.  Correct?
If so, then the succeeding reservation window would be Feb '17 points released Feb '16 - Feb '17? No?

So I can borrow from the succeeding Reservation Window which would be Feb'16- Feb'17 for use in connection with the current Reservation Window which is Feb '15- Feb '16.  By the Hyatt rules, wouldn't I be able to borrow?

The only way for borrowing not to work is to define my current reservation window as Feb '14-Feb '15 and define succeeding reservation window as Feb '15 - Feb '16.  This time frame doesn't make sense.

The LCUP points are from a July week.  But I should be able to borrow from any of my weeks including my Feb week.  

Anyone have insight into the application of the rules?


----------



## scsu_hockey_fan (Aug 12, 2015)

i think hyatt is wrong, unless they are in the middle of changing stuff up.......

from what they are telling you, it would sound like a week 52 would have more value then say a week 5 in terms of borrowing points...


maybe its the 2015 LCUP points messing things up?  ( i could maybe see where they might be coming from if your trying to use the left over 2015 LCUP and 2016 CUP points along with borrowed points from 2017, points coming from 3 different years.) I wonder if it would work to tell them you want to borrow more points but not use the 2015 Lcup points in making the particular reservation??


----------



## peas (Aug 12, 2015)

scsu_hockey_fan said:


> i think hyatt is wrong, unless they are in the middle of changing stuff up.......
> 
> from what they are telling you, it would sound like a week 52 would have more value then say a week 5 in terms of borrowing points...
> 
> ...



Interesting point about me trying to basically use 3 years vs 2 years.  I never thought of that.  My LCUP points expire in Jan.  I plan to use them in Dec at this point, but it'd be interesting what would happen if I tried to use 3 different years at the same time in Jan (Hyatt consistently says I could borrow in Jan).

I did mention to the agent, so you're saying that if I have a week 5, then I only have 4 weeks to borrow vs if I have a week 52, I have 51 weeks to borrow?  And she said correct.  

I thought about this last night, and all the agents said to me as an aside that the system won't let the agent do that.  Even if you wanted to borrow from those 2017/released in 2016 points, they couldn't even bring up the MF for me to prepay because the estimated amounts aren't even out yet.  It was an aside, and I kind of glossed over it because I was trying to wrap my brain around this situation.  But I wonder if this is really the issue.

Maybe in the Hyatt rules & regs, I technically could borrow, but I'd have to pay my 2017 MF fees (for points released in '16).  When I said I've prepaid my MF I thought it was for 2017 points (released in '16), but it makes more sense that it's for 2016 points released in '15. Because you're required to prepay MFs, I fail one of the requirements of borrowing.  And this is why everything is on a calendar year schedule; I'm guessing that MF estimates are available to prepay on 1/1/16 for the 2017 points.  So despite the regs saying you can borrow in your subsequent reservation window, I fail on the prepaying MF prong because they won't let me prepay it.

What do you think?  It's the only theory I got going now.  The agents don't like talking about the Hyatt rules & regs.  They just tell me how the system actually runs.

This effectively means that you can only borrow in the same calendar year.  If you own week 4, you can borrow jan 1 to the week 4.  If you own week 52, you have 51 weeks to borrow.   I don't know how big a deal it is since after week 4, you now have CUP points to use.  However, the week 52 situation sounds a lot more flexible vs the week 4 situation if you ever did need to borrow if you're in an LCUP situation especially for a single week owner.


----------

