# Italy first timer



## cp73 (Sep 23, 2013)

In the spring my wife, sister, brother in law, and myself will be going to Italy for the first time together. We are planning on going for 12 nights at most. We are all pretty active in our late 50's. We were thinking of staying in 3 areas at most, Such as Rome, Florence, and Venice (Big 3). But we were also thinking of dropping Venice and doing the Amalfi coast area (Pompii, Capri). 
I would like to hear your suggestion on how you would do a 12 night stay and making it leisure, relaxing, and enjoyable. 

Thanks


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## Passepartout (Sep 23, 2013)

What are your interests? Food? museums? art? history? beach? religious history? You'll need to narrow it down some, 'cause seeing 3 cities in an area as 'touristically' dense as Italy will NOT be leisurely OR relaxing.

I'd do Florence and Venice, or Rome and the South, and save the other one for another 12 night trip.

Jim


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## Pompey Family (Sep 24, 2013)

Passepartout said:


> You'll need to narrow it down some, 'cause seeing 3 cities in an area as 'touristically' dense as Italy will NOT be leisurely OR relaxing.
> 
> I'd do Florence and Venice, or Rome and the South, and save the other one for another 12 night trip.
> 
> Jim



Couldn't agree more.  I don't know why some people want to cram so much in at one time.  Italy is a big country crammed full of history, art, culture and food so to do it any justice any trip should be pared down.  We're off to Sorrento in February for a long weekend solely to visit Herculaneum.  I don't think we could fit in Pompeii athough we've been before let alone a tour along the Amalfi or a trip to Capri.  I could easily spend a whole day at the Colosseum and the Forum before even considering the rest of Rome.

As you're travelling from the US you need to factor in travel fatigue and preparation so consider knocking two days off which leaves 10 days to do a relaxing and leisurely 3 city tour of Italy!

I would do as Jim suggested and do either Rome & Sorrento/Amalfi or Florence and Venice.  Rome and Sorrento would be my choice.  To try and fit the whole lot in would be stressful, rushed and not a very enjoyable trip.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 24, 2013)

Plus, OP lives in California -- another 3 hour difference in time zones to Italy.


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## lvhmbh (Sep 24, 2013)

I absolutely love Venice!  It is a very "user friendly" place.  You can hop on the water bus and ride up and down treating it like a "hop on and off" conveyance simply by purchasing a day pass (you can buy a multiple day pass too).  I want to go back to Rome for a week and see everything but it is a big busy city and I probably wouldn't go back after that - we were there for a short time.  Loved Florence and would spend more time there if I could.  If I went back to Venice (definitely would even though I've been twice) I would then take the train to Verona for a day and visit the surrounding area for a day trip.  JMHO, Linda


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## beejaybeeohio (Sep 24, 2013)

*less is more*

Rome, Naples (Pompeii) & the Amalfi coast *or* Florence, Tuscany or Cinque Terre & Venice would be good itineraries, IMO.

With either of those, you combine history along with scenery.  With the OP from California, the Tuscan wine country may or may not hold great appeal, but the Cinque Terre would be an active traveler's delight.

Have fun planning- a month from today we'll be in Lucca!


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## cp73 (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions. Something to think about. I guess its sort of like coming to California and trying to see San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego all in one trip. I wouldn't even consider that. Or going to Hawaii and hitting all the islands on one trip.


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## PStreet1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Don't know if it's your kind of thing at all, but Fathom Events (the ones that do one night opera showings, etc. at your local theaters) is doing a full-scale Pompii event September 25th.  It might be a way to learn more about Pompii and see if--for you--it's worth working into the trip.  Different people enjoy different things, and you might decide it would be better on another trip or you couldn't possibly go on living if you missed the chance to see it.


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## Passepartout (Sep 24, 2013)

The alternative, if you want to see the most in the least amount of time, is on a tour. But then you get into the 'if it's Tuesday, this must be Florence' thing. Hardly a relaxing vacation. 

With a 12 night limit, after you subtract a day on each end for travel from USA and a day to recuperate from it, that's 9 nights. And subtracting travel days between each of the 'Big 3', you're down to 6 nights/days of sightseeing. Two in each of Rome, Florence, and Venice. Not my idea of a relaxing trip. A cruise would be another alternative, but having done that all around Italy, cruising is a LOUSY way to experience Italy. Not bad for a targeted re-visit, but not for a first time there. Not nearly enough time in the ports.

Jim


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## channimal (Sep 24, 2013)

there is soooo much to see in Italy that as others are suggesting, I recommend focusing on one area and saving the rest for the next trip.

DW and I did Tuscany one week and then Rome the second week.  We did a day trip to Florence .. spent a day in Pisa, did a day in Assisi and frankly.. although hitting the "highlights" we never spent enough time on any one of the locations to do it justice.  Heck, the day in Florence was almost all eaten up in the Uffizi.  Now, DW wasn't thrilled with how "hectic" Rome was.. but we felt a week there was enough.  

I think our next trip we'll try to get in to the Hilton TS in Tuscany as base camp and do 2 weeks; Florence, Orvieto, Venice


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## PStreet1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Our last trip to Rome was for 9 nights, and we rented an apartment.  That seemed about right, and we'd been there before.  From Rome, you can easily take the train to Sorrento, see Pompii on the way down (it's a stop on the train, and after visiting the site, you just reboard and go on to Sorrento or re-board and return to Rome).  On another trip, we spent two nights in Sorrento, which wasn't enough, but did give a "taste;" the first day was the train trip; the second was a bus trip down the Amalfi coast--left the car in Rome at the station so my husband could focus on the sights instead of the road.  The 3rd day, we returned to Rome.  Again, not enough time, but a taste.  It could fit into your 12 day plan by giving a bit more time to the southern coast and a bit less to Rome.  You'd have a great vacation and not be rushed.


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## pwrshift (Nov 15, 2013)

*Take the time for everlasting memories*

If you're thinking of Florence and Venice I suggest you read Dan Brown's book Inferno.  I learned a lot about both cities from the book, unfortunately after I went there...now I've got to go back again to see all the places described in the book.  Also suggest a cute movie called 'Only You' which shows you Venice, Rome and Amalfi.  I love Amalfi...we stayed in the Hilton Palace in Sorrento.  In Rome it was the Marriott Grand Flora.  In Florence it was the Excelsior...and the Danieli in Vence, both Starwood.  Rick Steces has some great Italy videos on sale right now.  I think You need a week in Rome, 4 nites in each of Amalfi, Florence and Venice.  Pack light and travel by train.  Of all of Europe I've seen...there's nothing like Italy.  Don't go all that way without having enough time to fully enjoy the wonders, history, people and wonderful food.

Brian


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## Rene McDaniel (Nov 16, 2013)

Yes, it would be lovely to have 3 or 4 weeks in Italy, but I think that cp73 could have a wonderful introduction to Italy with just 12 days.

With 12 days I would split it this way:
*Rome* - 4 nights hotel #1 
*Florence* - 4 nights hotel #2 (with a daytrip to Venice from Florence)
*Amalfi Coast* - 4 nights hotel #3 in a major city with good train connections such as Sorrento  (with 1 daytrip to Pompeii & 1 daytrip to Capri)

One important way to make the trip more relaxing is to make sure you are not changing hotels constantly.  Repeated checking in/ checking out, packing & unpacking can wear on you.  That is why I would recommend doing Venice as a daytrip from Florence. You can enjoy lunch, see the main sights, walk through the city, enjoy a gondola ride, have dinner, enjoy the evening & head back later.  We did it by car on our last trip since we were a family of 4, but I don't recommend that since we were in an accident just outside of Venice. Ouch! Our rental car insurance deductible was 1,200 Euros, plus driving in Italy is a crazy free-for-all, with people driving literally 5 inches from you. We would definitely have saved some money by taking the train instead!

You can easily see the highlights of each city within 4 days.  In Rome they have a hop on/hop off bus tour that stops at all the major monuments & at night you can tour all the famous fountains on foot. In each city, make sure you stay right in the heart of all the action and it will make your sightseeing much, much easier!

If you had to cut a day somewhere, you could drop one in the Amalfi coast (if you are not big into hill towns), or drop one in Florence (if you are not much into the Renaissance/art/churches/outstanding food.  I would recommend you go onto Tripadvisor to see the top sights for each city, to best figure out how much time you would really need in each place.   If your group is really a big bunch of foodies who would be happy seeing all the ancient Roman ruins, fountains, & St. Peters/Vatican Museum/Sistine Chapel in 3 days, you might opt to spend 5 days enjoying the quieter ambiance of Florence & Tuscany.  It's best to allocate your time based on your interests or goals for the trip.  Sometimes people just want to tick off that they have seen all the "major" sites, but your trip will be more enjoyable if you take your genuine interests into account. Compared to us, Italy has amazing EVERYTHING, so you will definitely benefit by having a plan of attack.

-- Rene


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## golf4hrs (Nov 16, 2013)

*Northern Italy*

Our family of three is planning a similar trip in May 2014 and flying from San Diego/Carlsbad, California.  We have been to Rome before and thoroughly enjoyed it.  I thought about doing 3 cities at first - Florence, Venice and Bologna.  Unpacking/packing for us makes traveling less fun.  Furthermore, *Passepartout* is correct, one loses about 1.5 days traveling to Italy and 1 day flying home to the west coast.

I decided to pick 2 cities as our base, take the train most everywhere and stay 5 nights each.  I might rent a car for a day or two.  The two cities are in this order of stay:
*Florence* - visit Siena, Montepulciano, San Gimignano, Lucca/Pisa, Rome*
*Bologna* - visit Venice, Modena, Parma, Maranello for Ferrari factory tour & museum

Our family also decided to avoid hotels due to higher cost per square foot, privacy and simply cramped space.  I have paid my dues at hotels.  2 bedroom timeshares have spoiled us, especially traveling with our college aged son.  In Florence, I found a large, upscale, quiet 2 bedroom apartment (~1180 sq ft) in a historical palace within walking distance of all the major tourist attractions, restaurants and train station.  It would be perfect for two couples.

Venice was one option for a home base, until I found a top-rated 1 bedroom B&B suite (~540 sq ft) in the center of Bologna.  Both places in Bologna and Florence were priced reasonably imho.  The Bologna B&B actually has 2 one bedroom apartments and a good suggestion for *cp73*.  Bologna was around half the price of a centrally located place in Venice.  Bologna is the foodie capital of Italy, major train city and university town for my son.  We even plan to attend a highly recommended 1/2 day cooking class at the Culinary Institute in Bologna.  If we missed anything in Florence, it is only a 35 minute train ride away.

*Rome is 83 minutes from Florence by high speed train.  My son has never been to Rome and a one day trip will provide a taste.  He can return later on his own and spend up to a whole week there.

Bottom line, I would recommend picking two cities for base camp, either *Rome/Florence or Florence/Bologna*.  I would also avoid August due to the heat and everything shuts down.  Some shops and markets are closed on Sundays.


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## Ken555 (Nov 16, 2013)

1. Florence
2. Lake Como (Bellagio and others make a great home base)
3. Venice

Not necessarily in this order. 

On my last trip to Italy we met at the Milan airport (couple of us were flying separately, and I went to Germany in advance to see friends) and had a car meet us at the airport hotel the next morning to take us to Bellagio (about an hour drive, perhaps more). We stayed in Bellagio at a wonderful boutique hotel which specialized in fish from the lake (very tasty). We walked a lot and took the ferries to other towns - without a doubt this was one of my best experiences in Italy, lots of fun and designed for tourists.

From Lake Como we went back to Milan by car and took a high speed train to Venice (there is a train station in Como but the timing wasn't great, and not much more expensive to simply have the driver take us to Milan instead). The drive back was also fantastic, as it was on the other side of the lake (err...perhaps best to simply say we drove back on another road with amazing views). 

Venice, well, Venice is Venice. If the weather is good, the tourists are in control and the Italian schools don't send millions of students with colored hats (to keep them organized) while you are there, it's likely you will have a great time. Don't pick a cheap hotel in Venice. We went to a hotel in the 90s on recommendation of a friend, got there and they "ran out of rooms" so booked us at another hotel...which had no active air conditioning, no screens, windows that opened directly above the walkways (ie. roads of Venice), etc. After that experience, I wouldn't go back to Venice until this last trip, at which point I insisted on making the hotel reservations (we stayed at a Starwood property and it was fantastic). 

Florence is marvelous. Great museums and the best food I've ever eaten anywhere. Twice now I've bought a leather jacket from John F (that's the name of the store) which anyone will tell you where it is, on the river near the central area of town. Go there if you are interested in buying...don't buy in the market unless you want poorer quality.

Unlike others, I've been to Rome and have absolutely no interest in ever returning. Big, dirty city. Yes, there are incredible historical sites and museums, but after Venice and Florence, Rome to me was a huge disappointment. 

Of course, from Florence there are great day trips to Pisa, San Gimignano, Siena and the region. We hired a car with driver on our first trip and did all in one long day, which was only a bit more expensive than a bus tour but so much better. Last time my cousin had rented a van so we went on our own...which was more chaotic but also a lot of fun, and we went to a few out of the way places a tour wouldn't necessarily stop at...including the Florence American Cemetery and Memorial just south of Florence (http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/fl.php).


Sent from my iPad


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## Ann-Marie (Nov 18, 2013)

We are considering Italy for the first time in 2015.  We will definitely do it with a tour group.  We are also considering doing 2 tours back to back and staying 21-28 days.  What is anyone's opinion on this plan.


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## elaine (Nov 18, 2013)

I would fly early to 1 place and spend time either doing select day tours (look on viator.com to get ideas) or DIY, then do a Tour, then end at another place and again, select day tours or DIY, or end with a cruise. Why, b/c it can get tiring getting on/off bus, check in/out hotels, etc. I have done Italy/Europe a number of times and built in "stay put" time is really good. On a cruise, you can choose to go/relax for the day. On a tour, you can't decide that you prefer to have a late breakfast and change your plans on the fly.  With 21-28 days, I would do 4 days pre-tour in the arrival city, then a 10 day tour, then either 4 days post in/near departure city or a week-long cruise.
If you decide on 2 tours, I would make sure the 2nd was rated less intense/leisure pace. Elaine


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## PStreet1 (Nov 18, 2013)

Good advice.

You might look at the catalogues for the tour companies and see what their schedule is.  You might discover it would be very easy to do part of the tour on your own; you'd save money and even more important, in my opinion, you could avoid the strict schedule and the need to be ready for the bus day after day.

For example, Rome is very, very easy to do on your own.  The old city is eminently walkable--it was small at that time--and there are, of course, the usual hop on, hop off buses that make getting from one site to another really easy.

The Italian trains are easy to navigate, and inexpensive.  A train from Rome to Florence doesn't take long, and you could spend time in the city on your own.

Not speaking Italian is absolutely no handicap.  Buy a guidebook for tips on how to navigate--Rick Steves guidebook is particularly easy to use and will tell you the tips for getting around lines etc.

After you have spent a little time on your own, adjusted to the time change, seen some of the things you really want to see in more detail than will be allowed on a tour, then take a tour for some of the rest of the time you are considering being in Italy.  For me, tours the whole time would be very, very frustrating and tiring:  I hate not getting to spend the time I want on the things I want to and I hate not being able to take a day off--without totally missing something I would like to see.


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## Passepartout (Nov 18, 2013)

Ann-Marie said:


> We are considering Italy for the first time in 2015.  We will definitely do it with a tour group.  We are also considering doing 2 tours back to back and staying 21-28 days.  What is anyone's opinion on this plan.



I certainly can't disagree with this. Although Italy is very easily do-able on your own, tours handle the logistics of the thing. They make sure you see the 'popular' sites, usually have some priority so you don't waste time standing in queues or calling for a reservation. No doubt about it, a good tour will make sure you do/see some off the beaten path things. A tour will arrange your hotels, and meals- though you don't have much choice about it.

I've taken some tours and done a lot of independent travel. In hindsight, on the tours, we saw more. When we traveled independently, it is more satisfying. When you are on your own, you go at your pace. On a tour, you're going to go at the pace of the slowest person in the group. Not bad if that's you, but can be a drag if you are impatient with dawdlers. Depending on the tour (company, operator, or guide) they CAN be a never ending chain of 'retail experiences' engineered to separate you from your money.

Jim


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## cp73 (Nov 19, 2013)

Thank you all for your comments I'm still reading them. Lots of good suggestions.


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## thinze3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Also, if you are flexible, let your airline choices help you with this.

We chose Air France because of it's departures from Houston straight to Europe and the seat availability in Business Class using miles.  The AF flight connected in Paris before going on to Rome. Consequently, Paris and Rome it was.

Had we chosen KLM, I believe the connection would have been in The Netherlands. British Air stopped over at London.  

The travel can be hard and eat into your vacation time, so the easier travel the better.


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## Ken555 (Nov 19, 2013)

thinze3 said:


> Also, if you are flexible, let your airline choices help you with this.
> 
> We chose Air France because of it's departures from Houston straight to Europe and the seat availability in Business Class using miles.  The AF flight connected in Paris before going on to Rome. Consequently, Paris and Rome it was.
> 
> ...



The good thing with Air France is that it has availability with business class awards. The bad thing with Air France is that it isn't the best option. I've travelled with AF twice to Europe and they're at the bottom of my list. Of course, if it's available and I've got the miles for it and nothing else is available I'll probably take it. But I'm going to do everything I can to avoid them. Ironically, they put me on Alitalia (non-stop Rome - LAX) after AF canceled an early morning flight to Paris and couldn't commit to getting me to the flight from Paris to LA on time...but they only put me on Alitalia after I asked twice for options (they were not helpful). And while Alitalia was a 777 with older business class seats, the seats and the food were ironically superior to AF by a noticeable amount.


Sent from my iPad


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## Ann-Marie (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks everyone.  This is very informative.


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## thinze3 (Nov 19, 2013)

*RE: Air France*

Well, we don't fly on 3 class (or more) aircraft very often, so I can't argue this from experience. 

That said, we didn't have anything but great things to say about AF, the staff, the lay flat seats, and the food (our actual photos).  We would fly with them again tomorrow.


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## JudyH (Nov 22, 2013)

I have been here in Italy for 3 weeks now. It started as a sighting on the TUG board for a TS in Venice, I grabbed it immediately, before I even realized Nov. Is the rrainy season. Not to worry, we haven't had much. 
We used our BA avios and companion pass to fly business into Milan. Two nights there, including a city tour, and we took the train to Venice. We had a 3 bedroom apt near the train station and vaporettos. It was kind of run down, as was most of Venice, but a great location. 

We trained it to Florence at a BnB for 6 night, then train to Rome for six more nights.

The first day always feels overwhelming, as it does in a US timeshare, but then we get our bearings and do just fine.

We are here with carryon luggage only.  Mostly public transportation.

Great trip, thanks to TUG, Trip Advisor, and Rick Steve's.
R


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## Passepartout (Nov 22, 2013)

I am SOOOO envious! Even though we head to Aus/NZ tomorrow, my heart is in Italy. 

Jim


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## JudyH (Nov 23, 2013)

That's my next trip. Please post how yours goes. Have fun.


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## pedro47 (Nov 23, 2013)

You will need Euros in Italy.


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