# Hyatt Siesta Key - Buy new or wait for resales



## ra34

Hi,

I am new to all of this and never imagined we would consider a timeshare but we love this area and could see ourselves going back every year. My question is to buy now or wait? The pricing has dropped on the fractionals but will they drop any further???? Does Hyatt negotiate on price? They basically said the price was the price - no incentives. I have searched the forums but there is not a lot on Hyatt Siesta Key. I did review Kal's site (Thanks Kal).

Thanks


----------



## sjuhawk_jd

ra34 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to all of this and never imagined we would consider a timeshare but we love this area and could see ourselves going back every year. My question is to buy now or wait? The pricing has dropped on the fractionals but will they drop any further???? Does Hyatt negotiate on price? They basically said the price was the price - no incentives. I have searched the forums but there is not a lot on Hyatt Siesta Key. I did review Kal's site (Thanks Kal).
> 
> Thanks



there is no need to buy new from the developer ever


----------



## Carmel85

ra34 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to all of this and never imagined we would consider a timeshare but we love this area and could see ourselves going back every year. My question is to buy now or wait? The pricing has dropped on the fractionals but will they drop any further???? Does Hyatt negotiate on price? They basically said the price was the price - no incentives. I have searched the forums but there is not a lot on Hyatt Siesta Key. I did review Kal's site (Thanks Kal).
> 
> Thanks



Look how much Hyatt Northstar came down Im sure Hyatt Siesta Key will really come down in price also.

Good luck.


----------



## ra34

Carmel85 said:


> Look how much Hyatt Northstar came down Im sure Hyatt Siesta Key will really come down in price also.
> 
> Good luck.



Thanks Carmel - Do you know what price the fractionals at Northstar started and where there are now.

It looks like SK is about 30% of what the opening prices were. I want to get in so I am not sure waiting for a resale is good for me mentally (I realize it may be a better decision financially).  But for about 100k we would get 6k points.


----------



## Beefnot

If you've got so much money that $100k is literally falling out of your pockets, then I suppose you can choose to either light $100 bills on fire like Floyd Mayweather, or buy inyo Siesta Key from the developer.  Whichever provides you the most psychological satisfaction.


----------



## Egret1986

*I don't know anything about Hyatt, but I sure hope 6k is a lot of points.*



ra34 said:


> Thanks Carmel - Do you know what price the fractionals at Northstar started and where there are now.
> 
> It looks like SK is about 30% of what the opening prices were. I want to get in so I am not sure waiting for a resale is good for me mentally (I realize it may be a better decision financially).  But for about 100k we would get 6k points.




Wow, that's a lot of money.  I don't think those timeshares are going to go up in price or sell out any time real soon.  You say that you're new to all this.  You might consider slowing down a bit, do lots of research, learn more about timeshares, and hopefully have the cash in the bank and aren't planning to finance this endeavor.  This is what the developers live for....folks that aren't knowledgeable about the product and just can't wait to give them their money or worse yet, are willing to go into deep debt for something bought on impulse.  Good luck to you, best wishes, and welcome to TUG.  Knowledge is power!


----------



## ra34

*Thanks for the more cordial opinion*



Egret1986 said:


> Wow, that's a lot of money.  I don't think those timeshares are going to go up in price or sell out any time real soon.  You say that you're new to all this.  You might consider slowing down a bit, do lots of research, learn more about timeshares, and hopefully have the cash in the bank and aren't planning to finance this endeavor.  This is what the developers live for....folks that aren't knowledgeable about the product and just can't wait to give them their money or worse yet, are willing to go into deep debt for something bought on impulse.  Good luck to you, best wishes, and welcome to TUG.  Knowledge is power!



I have done a lot of research. Looking at resale per point at a different Hyatt resort, I would be paying about $3.00 more per point and then there are no resales with that point value so combining a bunch of resales might be difficult. There are limited units still available for the weeks I want (btw this is for 3 weeks, 2 fixed and 1 float). We plan to use at least one of the fixed at SK each year and visit another Hyatt for the float week. I could not make a reservation for this week this year for this resort via Hyatt as it is booked and could not even have a friend who is an HVC member use his. 

Really what I was trying to see if anyone knew of any wiggle room with Hyatt on pricing or incentives. I think I need to decide if I want to risk losing those weeks now in hopes they become available later and cheaper on resale. Looking at Northstar and Aspen, it looks difficult to get in on high demand weeks unless you bought those weeks from the developer - I have not seen any resales (well one Aspen Christmas/NY listed for 700k....)

This would be a cash transaction - I would consider this like buying a sports car. Use it, it depreciates a lot but if you use and enjoy it then it is worth it. 

Thanks again!


----------



## Egret1986

*If you've got the cash and want one of those limited units/weeks....*



ra34 said:


> This would be a cash transaction - I would consider this like buying a sports car. Use it, it depreciates a lot but if you use and enjoy it then it is worth it.
> 
> Thanks again!



.....heck, it's only money.....When I had the cash to buy my sports car and didn't have to finance the doggone thing, I bought it.....no regrets.  It makes me very happy.  Going on vacations where I like to go, also makes me very happy.  I pay cash for my timeshares and I don't finance the vacations.  I work hard and take care of the necessities and no one is going without, so splurging on things for enjoyment......I say GO FOR IT!

It doesn't sound like you should wait for a possible resale.  Most times, if you miss out on one timeshare; just wait and another one will be along.  But in this situation, that might not happen.  

You could always make a serious offer.  All they could do is decline it.

Enjoy your ownership!


----------



## Pit

Just don't let yourself imagine that you will ever see your money again. If you ever want/need to resell it, you will recover pennies on the dollar. If your perfectly ok with that outcome, no one here can dissuade you.

Did you consider renting from an owner? I'm sure owners will be looking for renters. That could be a better finiancial decision, especially if you have some flexibility in your travel dates. Is there a particular week you're looking for?


----------



## ra34

Pit said:


> Just don't let yourself imagine that you will ever see your money again. If you ever want/need to resell it, you will recover pennies on the dollar. If your perfectly ok with that outcome, no one here can dissuade you.
> 
> Did you consider renting from an owner? I'm sure owners will be looking for renters. That could be a better finiancial decision, especially if you have some flexibility in your travel dates. Is there a particular week you're looking for?



No, I don't expect to see the money again. I understand I am buying insurance for the coveted week that I want and need because of kids and work schedule.

Thanks


----------



## chapjim

Why did he/she ask?


----------



## Beefnot

chapjim said:


> Why did he/she ask?



I suppose to secure some psychological comfort that buying this timeshare was a better use of cash than simply setting it on fire.


----------



## RichardL

*Newbie avoid the obvious mistakes*

It used to be that the obvious mistake of buying from the Developer was that the cost had built into it an unstated 50% sales commission.  So if you bought from the developer for $30,000, the property was probably worth $15,000 at most.  Most tuggers as of 3 years ago would be on safe ground to say $7,500.  Now today, you can buy a Hyatt for $250 on ebay or get one for free.  What does not indicate?  Do not buy?  Owners are giving away timeshares, and if you are willing to wait, you will see this even more.

But wait, you say, I am willing to buy now for $250, plus $499 ebay escrow,etc. 
Why?   I guess you feel like a lot of us that real estate ownership for less than $1,000 is great.  I would take a wild guess that at least 50% of tuggers would agree if you get a good location, a good season, and most important a place you want to return to for 10 years or so.  Here is why 50% of tuggers would disagree.  Why spend capital and buy within just one time share group say Hyatt, Marriott, Westin,etc.  You limit your priority trades.  Think of travel choices , and the flexibility to not have to spend money on maintenance fee and feel locked into just one location; be free to travel to a destination like most cities, that have hotels but no timeshares.  This is really true of major Europe cities, but also Los Angeles, to some extent New York.  Even if the city has a timeshare you could trade to for just maintenance fees and an exchange fee, how many better vacations for less money are available on the Tug exchange board with 60 or less days of notice for $700 or even less.

Solution: Rent a Timeshare on Tug.  You can rent in the neighborhood of the cost of annual maintenance fees.  Oh by the way, maintenance for Marriott Desert Springs1  just increased from $1036 to 1225 a year, plus property taxes of $80.  I point this out because until 2012 MF statements, I had heard of maintenance fee increases and special assessments, but that kind of thing only happens to the "other people". Go on the Tug Marketplace, and locate  listings for a particular week at the location you want, or try calling within the Resort Name you want to visit that merely says floating week 1-50 and you will get a respond that will tell you exactly how non-special the timeshare you want to buy really is.  Oh yes, I recommend for at least 3 years rent and stay at different timeshares to broaden your base of personal experience.  If you are like me, every time I stay at a timeshare I fall in love with it, and spend far too much time thinking how I can buy it, even if I somehow miss the timeshare presentation.  Spend time around the pool and hot tub and you will hear amazing stories from owners and exchangers why their timeshare is the best.

Bottom line, I recommend you join Tug and then put out requests for information that we can respond to through a private message and you
will be surprised at the timeshare offers would might get.  Go on the marketplace, I am unsure if you need to be a member, but I recommend it anyhow, and put in a wish request for several different timeshare locations and weeks, and you will definitely get a lot of responses.  

Enjoy the journey, and at least for the mean time the expression that is spreading is why buy when it is cheaper, easier, and less restrictive to rent in uncertain times. Emotionally, I need to own my home.  A timeshare is in many more ways a contractually concept that is best not to be emotional over. Rent it, use it, and keep your options open for the near future.


----------



## ondeadlin

You can easily get 2200 points at various Hyatt resorts resale for under $10,000 on eBay.

Eventually, that will be the resale price for Siesta Key.

If you're comfortable with that, and have the money to burn, hey, life's too short.  Most folks here would argue against it, but that's because most folks (myself included) would never be in position to drop that kind of money on a single week's vacation.  But if it's really funny money to you, the conventional rules don't apply IMO.


----------



## jerseygirl

Not that I advocate buying from Hyatt, but I don't think 3 weeks at HSK is equivalent to 2200 points elsewhere.  I don't think the fractional resorts have the same point structure as the regular resorts.


----------



## ondeadlin

I don't know if the residence clubs such as Siesta Key have some sort of point structure unique to the individual properties, but all the residence club weeks also convert to the same point structure as non-residence club weeks, i.e. the best weeks are diamond weeks that are worth 2200 for a two bedroom, etc.

If you go to Kal's page you can see the chart that gives you the point breakdown for each week at each resort.


----------



## heathpack

It is unrealistic to trade into the residence club properties reliably.  If someone wants to stay at Siesta Key on a regular basis, especially if they want a specific week, the only option really is to buy that week/s.  Right now, Siesta Key resales do not exist.  So the only options are: 1. Buy from developer or 2. Wait 3-10 years or longer for your desired weeks to show up as a resale.  Obviously $100k is a lot of money.  However if you have it as 100% disposable cash that you are ok with never seeing again (well, probably you will really see 20-50% of it again), then your best option is a developer purchase.  Personally before I plunked down $100k on a timeshare, I'd probably look at buying a condo, but I will admit Siesta Key would be easier- someone else will maintain, decorate, furnish, landscape, pest-control, paint, de-mildew, and insure the place for you.

If you get serious about this and want info on trading your shoulder season week, PM me, you maybe could get a lot out of that.  At least you should factor that part into your equations and see how much benefit it might add for you.

H


----------



## jerseygirl

ondeadlin said:


> I don't know if the residence clubs such as Siesta Key have some sort of point structure unique to the individual properties, but all the residence club weeks also convert to the same point structure as non-residence club weeks, i.e. the best weeks are diamond weeks that are worth 2200 for a two bedroom, etc.
> 
> If you go to Kal's page you can see the chart that gives you the point breakdown for each week at each resort.



Yes, I know we can trade in at the same point structure, but I'm wondering if their points are worth more.  At a minimum, 3 weeks have to be worth 2000 + 2000 + 1300/1400, right?



			
				heathpack said:
			
		

> It is unrealistic to trade into the residence club properties reliably.



Agree completely!!

There aren't any resales available right now (I've been watching for them also).  My guess is that they will price out at $50000 for 2 prime and 1 shoulder season when they do start to hit the market.  So, one would be paying $50K for the ability to use now.  

The resort is almost always sold out during prime season (I check frequently, hoping for a weekend rate I can afford!).  Two bedroom units during shoulder season are >$500/night for the worst view.

Siesta Key is gorgeous -- #1 ranked beach in 2011 by Dr Beach, if you follow those sort of things!     And, it's not like there's a ton of hotels ... maybe 10, 12.  None are brand names (but several are very nice).  

Again, not advocating buying from Hyatt at $100K.  Just trying to make the point that it's not the same as your everyday regular Hyatt one-week timeshare (and I love those!).  And, if the OP has $100K to burn (and has fully funded his retirement plan and long-term health needs so as not to be a burden to his children ), then I say go for it!


----------



## ra34

*To clear things up*

My original question was wiggle room on price, possibility of any incentives (extra weeks/points/waiving of maintenance fees/etc) and if there are any resales available or the likelihood in the near future. My recent research looks like I could not buy a resale for Hyatt Aspen or Northstar at the moment so SK looks like it will be in the same category. I do realize things may change for someone in the future (maybe even me) and need to resell but there is nothing out there right now.

There is one unit left in the fractional program for the week I want.

Points would be just under 8000 (yes eight thousand).

I have looked at condo's in the area - NOTHING compares and to be honest I want to go there a couple times a year and having a great view and  room for all of my family (4br) is important. Most of the condo's on SK are two bedrooms, 3 are even rare.

I am not asking if it is worth it financially but as stated in the first paragraph just wanted some expert opinion on dealing with Hyatt or the developer.


----------



## jerseygirl

Yeah well, that's the funny thing about TUG, we opine on everything.

With most of the hotel developers, there's no wiggle room on price.  But, they will usually wiggle on incentives.


----------



## ra34

jerseygirl said:


> Yeah well, that's the funny thing about TUG, we opine on everything.
> 
> With most of the hotel developers, there's no wiggle room on price.  But, they will usually wiggle on incentives.



And that is what I was looking for! 

Price is going no where (right now) but I may get a week or two thrown in somewhere. Like I said, I am new to this. I have never been to a TS presentation - not even here. But I stayed there to look for properties in SK and decided that I loved this too much to even warrant staying anywhere else on the island (well unless I had millions to buy and maintain one of those single family homes that the kayak kept drifting too!).


----------



## bdh

RichardL said:


> It used to be that the obvious mistake of buying from the Developer was that the cost had built into it an unstated 50% sales commission.  So if you bought from the developer for $30,000, the property was probably worth $15,000 at most.  Most tuggers as of 3 years ago would be on safe ground to say $7,500.  Now today, you can buy a Hyatt for $250 on ebay or get one for free.  What does not indicate?  Do not buy?  Owners are giving away timeshares, and if you are willing to wait, you will see this even more.



While this is a valid scenario for the vast majority of TS, it is not the case at HSK.  You aren't going to see people giving away HSK ownership on EBay - the folks that own at HSK have a little better financial footing (ok, a lot) and aren't in need of trying to escape the annual MF.  And for the same reason, they wont be listing their weeks on TUG's Last Minute Rental board. 

People that bought at HSK did it for the same rational that the OP has; its a great property on a fabulous beach, , its more economical and less headache than a 2nd home on the water and its what they want and they can afford it.


----------



## ondeadlin

bdh said:


> While this is a valid scenario for the vast majority of TS, it is not the case at HSK.  You aren't going to see people giving away HSK ownership on EBay - the folks that own at HSK have a little better financial footing (ok, a lot) and aren't in need of trying to escape the annual MF.  And for the same reason, they wont be listing their weeks on TUG's Last Minute Rental board.
> 
> People that bought at HSK did it for the same rational that the OP has; its a great property on a fabulous beach, , its more economical and less headache than a 2nd home on the water and its what they want and they can afford it.



Four years ago someone told me this exact same thing about the Hyatt fractional property in Breck.

Guess what?  I was there this weekend and the DEVELOPER prices were significantly below what they used to be - half of what they were four years ago for some weeks.  They were calling it a "sale", but I think anyone familiar with the timeshare market these days knows the reality of the situation.

And that's for unsold developer inventory.

You will see people selling their HSK weeks on eBay.  Not today.  Not next year.  Maybe not in five years.  But it will happen. First the weeks will be listed with brokers at unrealistic prices ... then they'll be listed here and on Redweek at unrealistic prices ... and then eventually they'll be listed on eBay.

No property is immune.  The only question is when.  It will undoubtedly take longer for Aspen and Northstar and Siesta Key ... but it will happen.  

Two years ago there were no Highlands Inn weeks on eBay.  None.  Now there are several a month.


----------



## bdh

ondeadlin said:


> Four years ago someone told me this exact same thing about the Hyatt fractional property in Breck.
> 
> Guess what?  I was there this weekend and the DEVELOPER prices were significantly below what they used to be - half of what they were four years ago for some weeks.  They were calling it a "sale", but I think anyone familiar with the timeshare market these days knows the reality of the situation.
> 
> And that's for unsold developer inventory.
> 
> You will see people selling their HSK weeks on eBay.  Not today.  Not next year.  Maybe not in five years.  But it will happen. First the weeks will be listed with brokers at unrealistic prices ... then they'll be listed here and on Redweek at unrealistic prices ... and then eventually they'll be listed on eBay.
> 
> No property is immune.  The only question is when.  It will undoubtedly take longer for Aspen and Northstar and Siesta Key ... but it will happen.
> 
> Two years ago there were no Highlands Inn weeks on eBay.  None.  Now there are several a month.



No doubt that there will be HSK resales at some point in time, but based on the OP's comments, sounds like they're looking to make a move a little sooner than 5 plus years.  However, I think you might be over looking the financial demographics of the typical HSK buyer - they just have a firmer financial footing than the average TS owner - so I don't believe the HSK give away is going to be the norm.  Note that a resale priced at 75% below developer pricing will still be 25K to 50K - since the typical TUGger believes that no TS is worth more than a buck, its going to take a non-typical TUGger to buy HSK at a "depressed" price.           

FWIW

One reason the prices at Breck are considerablely less than they were 4 years ago is because what you get is half the weeks/points.  Now that developer sales are winding down, they have split the "fractional" package.  IE: An initial fractional share consisted of a prime week and float week - you can now buy either or, take your pick and buy the prime week only or buy the float week only (don't ask me why someone would want a mud week, but it sounds like they sell them to someone).


----------



## ondeadlin

bdh said:


> One reason the prices at Breck are considerablely less than they were 4 years ago is because what you get is half the weeks/points.  Now that developer sales are winding down, they have split the "fractional" package.  IE: An initial fractional share consisted of a prime week and float week - you can now buy either or, take your pick and buy the prime week only or buy the float week only (don't ask me why someone would want a mud week, but it sounds like they sell them to someone).



Just to be clear, I was comparing apples to apples - the price now for a prime plus float, compared to the price then for prime plus float.  It's below 2/3rds of the old price for many of those packages.  Not all, but most.

If you read my original post, I'm not suggesting the OP buy resale.  Everybody here seems to recognize this is a somewhat unique situation.  It's a new property and the OP appears well aware of the downside of buying developer.

As for the the idea the "financial demographics" of HSK buyers somehow insulate the property ... well ... I remember a certain long-time Tugger making the same justification for dropping 100k+ for a penthouse unit at Westgate's then-redhot and brand new Las Vegas property ... and another Tugger making a similar justification to justify the similar pricing at Marriott's then brand new Marco Island Property.

Prices at both properties are, of course, considerably down, and in a lot less than 5 years time.  The Westgate week is probably worth less than 20 percent of what it was purchased for, maybe less than 10 percent.

Again, there's no magic formula.  Nobody's immune.  Some properties decrease slower than others - Hyatt is among them.  So that's a positive.  There is limited inventory for Hyatt's new fractionals, that's also a positive.  

But if you pay $50k to $100k for a week at one of them, and you can't afford to wait years for it to sell, it's still highly likely you're going to take a bath.  Tuggers just generally want people to know that going in.


----------



## ra34

*Just curious*

What were the prices then and now for the same week(s). The prices for HSK are significantly less - in fact about 65% less then when they started.


----------



## ondeadlin

They actually had a weeks price list in the lobby, so I was comparing that to some prices I picked up a few years ago in Breck - but I didn't take the list with me.  (If anyone's there now, maybe they could pick up their own copy for us!)


----------

