# 4 of my pet peeves while flying



## Jimster (Apr 17, 2018)

For what it’s worth, I have 4 pet peeves when flying.  These probably aren’t the only ones and certainly some will see them as not a problem, but they tend to bother me.

1. DON’T GRAB MY SEAT!  I don’t like people who think my seat (especially when sleeping) are something to grab or hang on to.  Look at the flight attendants.  They go up and down the aisle all the time but they don’t grab seat backs.  They gain stability by moving their hands along the storage bins.  Watch them-that’s how it is done.  Other people grab the seats to get up from theirs or get into theirs.  That too is mostly unnecessary. Lift up the side bar and slide into your seat or press against it to stand.  If you have a window seat, have the others get up-leave my seat alone.  It’s all a matter of technique.

2.  DON’T STAND IN LINE AT THE TOILET!  I usually avoid seats by the toliet but when I do I don’t want you standing there.  Amazingly, many people don’t look up above the toliet door.  There are red and green lights which operate when people enter and exit the toliet.  These are visible throughout the cabin. 

3.  DON’T UNBUCKLE YOUR SEATBELT UNTIL YOU HEAR THE BELL!  Actually we do better in the USA than in most foreign markets and truthfully, the danger is generally not mine but rather the person who unbuckles too soon.  Why wait to unbuckle?   Have you ever seen someone go flying down the aisles because they unbuckled too soon?  Most people think that once they are on the ground, they are good to go.  Yet if you are just inches from the Jetway and the pilot hits the brakes hard, you can get seriously injured.

4.  TURN OFF THE ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT AND HANG UP WHEN REQUESTED. A flight attendant’s primary duty is to insure the safety of the passengers- not to serve you drinks, or make your life comfortable.  First, no one wants to listen to your phone call.  Second, it is hard to imagine something that urgent that you can’t wait.  Finally, its the rule and that should be reason enough.  Now I realize many people don’t like rules- witnesses the number of irresponsible drivers who don’t stop at stop signs.  Ultimately, you can get thrown off the plane if you fail to comply-remember George Clooney.

I know I am going to get flack for saying these things, but I think people should know what others find annoying if they are unaware.


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## #1 Cowboys Fan (Apr 17, 2018)

How about:
Don't kick, or push on the BACK of my seat!!!


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## Jimster (Apr 17, 2018)

I agree but i thought that was obvious but by all means add that!


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## Passepartout (Apr 17, 2018)

How about the guy waaaay back in about 35C who as soon as the seat belt light goes out at the gate, moves into the aisle and rummages about pulling down carry-ons, jackets, etc only to stand there for 10 minutes while passengers deplane orderly from front to back. (note- I'm guilty of this)


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## Glynda (Apr 17, 2018)

Jimster said:


> For what it’s worth, I have 4 pet peeves when flying.  These probably aren’t the only ones and certainly some will see them as not a problem, but they tend to bother me.
> 
> 1. DON’T GRAB MY SEAT!  I don’t like people who think my seat (especially when sleeping) are something to grab or hang on to.  Look at the flight attendants.  They go up and down the aisle all the time but they don’t grab seat backs.  They gain stability by moving their hands along the storage bins.  Watch them-that’s how it is done.  Other people grab the seats to get up from theirs or get into theirs.  That too is mostly unnecessary. Lift up the side bar and slide into your seat or press against it to stand.  If you have a window seat, have the others get up-leave my seat alone.  It’s all a matter of technique.
> 
> ...



My number one would be the same as #1 Cowboys Fan's: Don't kick or push the back of my seat. Two, give that poor screaming baby, who probably has ear pressure, a bottle or pacifier! Three, when you recline your seat as far as it will go, you reduce the amount of space I have and make it difficult for me to maneuver. Four, If your arriving flight is running late, and you have a long layover at this airport, don't jump right up and wait in the aisle of the plane upon arrival when others behind you might have a chance to make their next flight if only they could get off the plane!

As to your "Don't stand in line at the toilet," if I see the green light on, ask others in my row to stand so I can get out, make my way down a long aisle to the toilet only to have someone else beat me to it, do you think I should go back to my seat, have everyone stand up to let me enter and do it all over again at the next green light?

Totally agree with your #4!


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## Glynda (Apr 17, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> How about the guy waaaay back in about 35C who as soon as the seat belt light goes out at the gate, moves into the aisle and rummages about pulling down carry-ons, jackets, etc only to stand there for 10 minutes while passengers deplane orderly from front to back. (note- I'm guilty of this)



As long as you are behind me and I don't have a short connection to make, no problem!


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## PigsDad (Apr 17, 2018)

I agree with your list, but wanted to add a caveat on your first item.



Jimster said:


> 1. DON’T GRAB MY SEAT!  I don’t like people who think my seat (especially when sleeping) are something to grab or hang on to.  Look at the flight attendants.  They go up and down the aisle all the time but they don’t grab seat backs.  They gain stability by moving their hands along the storage bins.  Watch them-that’s how it is done.  *Other people grab the seats to get up from theirs or get into theirs.  That too is mostly unnecessary. Lift up the side bar and slide into your seat or press against it to stand.  If you have a window seat, have the others get up-leave my seat alone.*  It’s all a matter of technique.



I certainly try to avoid grabbing the seat in front of me when getting out of my seat, but being 6'5", if you have your seat reclined in front of me, I have no choice but to grab it when trying to get to the aisle.  There simply isn't enough space to navigate w/o grabbing the seat or at the minimum, bumping into it.  Sorry, just not possible (I've tried).  I'll attempt to be as polite as possible, but if you don't want your seat grabbed or bumped, try not reclining it.  JMHO.

Kurt


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 17, 2018)

My #1 pet peevie - being seated next to a "spreader"*.  Most of the time it's a man, but some of my worst experiences have been when seated next to a female spreaders.  

-----
* Like a subway spreader.  Someone who sits in their seats, then spreads their knees out so that their legs steal space from the neighboring seats.  A spreader is quite different from a large person who physically fills their seat and more.


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## Jimster (Apr 18, 2018)

I can appreciate that a tall person wouldn’t have an option trying to get out of a seat reclined in front of them.  Of course, that is why i never recline my seat.  Unbelieveably, some people recline their seat even before the plane moves.  The fight attendant SHOULD have them bring it up to an upright position for take off- that’s the FAA rule.

I can also appreciate the person spreading out stealing space.  Needless to say the armrest between me and the other passenger never goes up so that partially solves the problem.  Recently, I had a man about 6’8” 380 pounds take the middle seat in my row.  Obviously, I held my ground (what there was of it) but i wondered how important the trip must be to a person like that such that they took a middle seat.  He obviously knew he would be terribly uncomfortable to say nothing of the people beside him.


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## artringwald (Apr 18, 2018)

My pet peeve is the gate lice, the people that head for the boarding gate before their boarding group is called and you have to fight your way through them because your boarding group is ahead of theirs.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 18, 2018)

Jimster said:


> Recently, I had a man about 6’8” 380 pounds take the middle seat in my row.  Obviously, I held my ground (what there was of it) but i wondered how important the trip must be to a person like that such that they took a middle seat.  He obviously knew he would be terribly uncomfortable to say nothing of the people beside him.


I don't mind so much the person who is simply large, but does what they can to minimize the issue.  I remember a flight from PVR to SAN, where I was in the middle seat, DW had the window, and a large person had the aisle seat, but despite best efforts he still took a slice of my space.  (BTW - not obese at all. Simply a large person.). I held my ground (because DW enjoys her space), and we flew from PVR to SAN in direct physical contact the whole way. 

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as the person (smaller than my PVR-SAN seatmate) who plops down and spreads their legs into my space.  FWIW - in my experience, when the person in the seat next to me is male, when I "reclaim" my space, the readily adjust.  That's close to 90% of the time.  However, in the rare cases when the spreader is female, they have seemed to act as if I'm assaulting them when I don't cede my space to them.


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## x3 skier (Apr 18, 2018)

Since I don’t fly commercial much anymore, I’ve decided to avoid coach if at all possible.  After a lifetime of saving, First/Business Class is affordable (or via FF Miles) and enjoyable (except on the clapped out MD-80’s on DL and AA). Not much to complain about in the front of the boat.

The best is flying my own plane.

Cheers


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## LannyPC (Apr 18, 2018)

Passepartout said:


> How about the guy waaaay back in about 35C who as soon as the seat belt light goes out at the gate, moves into the aisle and rummages about pulling down carry-ons, jackets, etc only to stand there for 10 minutes while passengers deplane orderly from front to back. (note- I'm guilty of this)



I know it's not airplane etiquette but your pet peeve is a similarity to mine.  When driving on the road reasonably within the speed limit, you have somebody tailgating you implying that you need to drive faster, only to have him/her speed past you at the next opportunity and then see him again at the next red light.


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## Passepartout (Apr 18, 2018)

[Deleted] Not airplane 'peeve'


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## AbelowDS (Apr 18, 2018)

Here are my 4

*1. I'M NOT YOUR FRIEND.* Other that a cordial hello, excuse me, etc., I don't want to hear your life story or talk with you for the next 6 hours. I'm not looking for new friends, so please just let me sit and read my book in peace.

*2. DRINK RESPONSIBLY.*  It's wonderful that you're having a good time. Maybe this is your first flight; maybe you're just getting in the swing of things for your vacation; maybe you're just an alcoholic.  But the last thing I want is your loud obnoxious behavior, shouting up and down aisles to your friends. Have your buzz but act like a responsible adult.

*3a. USE YOUR SPACE AND NOT MINE. * Like a few of you wrote above, wrestling over the arm rest, slouching with your legs spread into _my _space, and generally not knowing where your arms are swinging is just plain rude and inconsiderate. I include in this the people who KNOW how cramped things are, yet put their seats in the FULL reclining position. I once had my computer screen broken when someone flung back their chair. Be considerate; if you're cramped so is everyone else and you don't need to take up their breathing room.  *3b. LOSE SOME WEIGHT.* Sorry to offend, but this is not about prejudice. It's about thinking about others.  If you're spilling over into my seat, you should have bought two seats. Can't afford it, don't fly. Do I care about your weight? No. Do I care that you're taking up almost half my seat, absolutely.

*4. SPEND THE $25 AND CHECK THAT OVERSIZED BAG.*  Yes, you made it past everyone with a bag that is bigger than allowed. You squish it into the overhead compartment, not caring whose belongings you crush, not caring that you are using more space than was intended for you.  And on the occasion when all the overhead space is used up, you piss and moan that you now need to gate-check the bag (even though you're getting it checked for free instead of for $25.)


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## bbodb1 (Apr 18, 2018)

Speaking of AbelowDS' #4, I'd like to see some airlines try the following: on a fairly popular route, offer one flight per day where NO carry on baggage is allowed EXCEPT for a woman's purse.  
*None at all.* 
Study the times required to board / deplane and compare them to other flights on the same route. 
Survey the passengers to determine their reaction.


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## Glynda (Apr 18, 2018)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> My #1 pet peevie - being seated next to a "spreader"*.  Most of the time it's a man, but some of my worst experiences have been when seated next to a female spreaders.
> 
> -----
> * Like a subway spreader.  Someone who sits in their seats, then spreads their knees out so that their legs steal space from the neighboring seats.  A spreader is quite different from a large person who physically fills their seat and more.



Ah, yes! And why do all men seem to think that they are entitled to the arm rest?


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## AJCts411 (Apr 18, 2018)

Just my 2 cents worth, in my opinion MOST all of the pet peeves about space are caused by what I call "the race to the bottom", that is the race BY the airlines for the cheapest fares, and your business.  The consequence is smaller seats, smaller pitch,  fewer inflight services, over crowded bins, and most certainly creating a class of fliers "special fliers", the real annoying special ones, who demand first class services when they buy the cheapest fare going.


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## Glynda (Apr 18, 2018)

Jimster said:


> I can appreciate that a tall person wouldn’t have an option trying to get out of a seat reclined in front of them.  Of course, that is why i never recline my seat.  Unbelieveably, some people recline their seat even before the plane moves.  The fight attendant SHOULD have them bring it up to an upright position for take off- that’s the FAA rule.
> 
> I can also appreciate the person spreading out stealing space.  Needless to say the armrest between me and the other passenger never goes up so that partially solves the problem.  Recently, I had a man about 6’8” 380 pounds take the middle seat in my row.  Obviously, I held my ground (what there was of it) but i wondered how important the trip must be to a person like that such that they took a middle seat.  He obviously knew he would be terribly uncomfortable to say nothing of the people beside him.



I never recline my seat either. My husband is that guy that reclines as soon as he sits down and the attendant has to tell to bring it back up right before takeoff. Sigh. I prefer a window seat just so that I can lean into the recess a bit.


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## Lydlady (Apr 18, 2018)

Is there a general etiquette rule about armrests?  Like the armrest to your right?  Also, I know there are "priority" groups for loading the plane, but other than that, doesn't it make sense to load from the back?


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## klpca (Apr 18, 2018)

Glynda said:


> Ah, yes! And why do all men seem to think that they are entitled to the arm rest?


Exactly. The middle seat person gets the armrests. Male or female.

Personally I like looking out the window if it's not cloudy or dark (of course). So please  don't *expect* me to put my shade down unless the sun is in your eyes. I chose that seat for a reason. I'm a reasonable person and if there's nothing to see I put it down automatically. But if we're flying over the Grand Canyon or the Alps, then I'll be looking out of the window.


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## undrpar64 (Apr 18, 2018)

klpca said:


> Exactly. The middle seat person gets the armrests. Male or female.
> 
> Personally I like looking out the window if it's not cloudy or dark (of course). So please  don't *expect* me to put my shade down unless the sun is in your eyes. I chose that seat for a reason. I'm a reasonable person and if there's nothing to see I put it down automatically. But if we're flying over the Grand Canyon or the Alps, then I'll be looking out of the window.





Lydlady said:


> Is there a general etiquette rule about armrests?  Like the armrest to your right?  Also, I know there are "priority" groups for loading the plane, but other than that, doesn't it make sense to load from the back?





Lydlady said:


> Is there a general etiquette rule about armrests?  Like the armrest to your right?  Also, I know there are "priority" groups for loading the plane, but other than that, doesn't it make sense to load from the back?


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## Glynda (Apr 18, 2018)

Lydlady said:


> Is there a general etiquette rule about armrests?  Like the armrest to your right?  Also, I know there are "priority" groups for loading the plane, but other than that, doesn't it make sense to load from the back?



Good rule on the armrest but that hasn't been my experience overall. I recall when, other than first and business class, boarding was from the rear first. When they changed it up for economy, I asked a flight attendant about it. I was told that people who boarded first, but were seated at the back, would put their carry on items in the bins closer to the front and then stop on the way out to get them down and that caused too many problems. Another of my peeves is when people take up most of the overhead bin space with items that could go under their seats.


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## PigsDad (Apr 18, 2018)

artringwald said:


> My pet peeve is the gate lice, the people that head for the boarding gate before their boarding group is called and you have to fight your way through them because your boarding group is ahead of theirs.


And that is a benefit of flying Southwest -- no gate lice.

Kurt


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## Glynda (Apr 18, 2018)

klpca said:


> Exactly. The middle seat person gets the armrests. Male or female.
> 
> Personally I like looking out the window if it's not cloudy or dark (of course). So please  don't *expect* me to put my shade down unless the sun is in your eyes. I chose that seat for a reason. I'm a reasonable person and if there's nothing to see I put it down automatically. But if we're flying over the Grand Canyon or the Alps, then I'll be looking out of the window.



If the rule is to the right, then the aisle seat would get two armrests, so that won't do. But I had never thought about the middle person getting both. Is that compensation for having to sit in the middle?  Too bad so many, men mostly I've found, take both no matter which seat they are in.


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## PigsDad (Apr 18, 2018)

Glynda said:


> Another of my peeves is when people take up most of the overhead bin space with items that could go under their seats.


Some of us have long legs, and need the under seat space for our FEET.

Kurt


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## klpca (Apr 18, 2018)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> However, in the rare cases when the spreader is female, they have seemed to act as if I'm assaulting them when I don't cede my space to them.


I sat next to a pretty large woman flying home from Maui. I was in the middle between her and my very broad shouldered husband. She wanted me to put the armrest up. Unfortunately I have bad shoulders - a combo of rotator cuff issues and rheumatoid arthritis - and I told her that I had to rest my arm on the arm rest. It was a small battle for the remainder of the flight. We shared the arm rest which was kind of awkward but whatever, but when I used the loo, the armrest would be up when I came back and we'd start the discussion again. Nope, my shoulders are still painful, still need the arm rest. Ugh.

Oh well. And I love chatting with folks on the flight (But totally respect the ones that don't want to chat - it's obvious). I wish there was a section for the chatters, lol. I would sit there for sure 

Oh well, it's essentially very expensive public transportation.  You just have to roll with it.


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## undrpar64 (Apr 18, 2018)

A pilot friend of mine answered the question I had about loading from the back to the front.  His response (apparently had been asked this question several times before), is that would probably work if you wanted to store your carry ons in the back and then come find your seat in the front.  His reasoning is that some if not all who board first are very likely to place their stored items in the overhead at the front of the plane.  He then asked me how I would try to control those who seated in the rear but placing their stored items in the front.  I had no answer.  I have witnessed flyers using the available storage space at the front of the plane and then proceeding to their seat farther back.  Boarding front first now makes a lot of sense.


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## klpca (Apr 18, 2018)

Glynda said:


> If the rule is to the right, then the aisle seat would get two armrests, so that won't do. But I had never thought about the middle person getting both. Is that compensation for having to sit in the middle?  Too bad so many, men mostly I've found, take both no matter which seat they are in.


I agree. I'm married to one. I always have to fight him for the arm rest real estate


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## bbodb1 (Apr 18, 2018)

It seems like I recall a time when passenger loading / unloading used to occur at both ends of the plane - front and rear - concurrently.  Or was I dreaming?


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## Lydlady (Apr 18, 2018)

Glynda said:


> Good rule on the armrest but that hasn't been my experience overall. I recall when, other than first and business class, boarding was from the rear first. When they changed it up for economy, I asked a flight attendant about it. I was told that people who boarded first, but were seated at the back, would put their carry on items in the bins closer to the front and then stop on the way out to get them down and that caused too many problems. Another of my peeves is when people take up most of the overhead bin space with items that could go under their seats.





undrpar64 said:


> A pilot friend of mine answered the question I had about loading from the back to the front.  His response (apparently had been asked this question several times before), is that would probably work if you wanted to store your carry ons in the back and then come find your seat in the front.  His reasoning is that some if not all who board first are very likely to place their stored items in the overhead at the front of the plane.  He then asked me how I would try to control those who seated in the rear but placing their stored items in the front.  I had no answer.  I have witnessed flyers using the available storage space at the front of the plane and then proceeding to their seat farther back.  Boarding front first now makes a lot of sense.



Hmm, interesting.  I tend to be one of the last ones on the plane so I didn't realize about passengers in the back loading their items in the front.


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## slip (Apr 18, 2018)

My defense against all these pet peeves is to not let any of that stuff bother me. Most of the time I’m going on vacation so I don’t sweat the small stuff. I just roll with it all and smile.


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 18, 2018)

klpca said:


> I sat next to a pretty large woman flying home from Maui. I was in the middle between her and my very broad shouldered husband. She wanted me to put the armrest up. Unfortunately I have bad shoulders - a combo of rotator cuff issues and rheumatoid arthritis - and I told her that I had to rest my arm on the arm rest. It was a small battle for the remainder of the flight. We shared the arm rest which was kind of awkward but whatever, but when I used the loo, the armrest would be up when I came back and we'd start the discussion again. Nope, my shoulders are still painful, still need the arm rest. Ugh.
> 
> Oh well. And I love chatting with folks on the flight (But totally respect the ones that don't want to chat - it's obvious). I wish there was a section for the chatters, lol. I would sit there for sure
> 
> Oh well, it's essentially very expensive public transportation.  You just have to roll with it.



There is this wonderful new air travel, inflatable pillow, which I am considering for SW flights to/from the coast before our first-class seats to Hawaii (we go to Hawaii 2-3 times per year).  The pillow is for the tray table, and you can lean forward on the pillow from that middle seat.  I have seen a few people with this pillow, and they just rest there on that pillow and listen to their music.  I think this the answer for middle seat sitting.  To/from Maui, you ought to look into first class seats, especially since you live on the coast.  I also saw a different pillow that might be comfortable as well, but leaning on the tray is something I do anyway.  A soft pillow on the tray would be ideal.


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## silentg (Apr 18, 2018)

All of these seem trivial after that scary flight on Southwest from New York heading to Dallas. Had to be emergency landed in Pennsylvania. Very sad.


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## mdurette (Apr 18, 2018)

For me it is any type of sound coming out of a device.    I acknowledge this is a bit an issue for me - but the pitch/tone of device speakers may has well be nails on a chalkboard.   I cringe.    Doesn't have to be a plane - could be anywhere - even my own house when a family member is watching something on their phone.  The worse is little kids hand held games.


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## isisdave (Apr 18, 2018)

With regard to using the seat(s) in front of me to stand and exit a row:

I've been flying for about 60 years now, and  know I used to be able to do that without touching the row in front of me.  I can't any longer. I am not certain, but I think this is due to three things:

The bleeping rows are closer together,
My leg and hip muscles are not quite as strong, and
In order to stand upright, your center of gravity has to be over your feet.  Even once I'm up, I cannot stand upright, facing forward, with my calves against my own seat, whether or not the seat in front of me is upright or not, because in either case it is occupying the space above my feet. I either have to hold on (which you can do quite gently _once you're upright_), or to bend my head forward to move my CG over my feet. 
So please remember that not everyone is as young, strong, and able as yourself, and give thanks as I find myself doing more and more these days, "If this is the worst problem I have to put up with today, I'm more fortunate than 90% of the world's population."


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## x3 skier (Apr 18, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> It seems like I recall a time when passenger loading / unloading used to occur at both ends of the plane - front and rear - concurrently.  Or was I dreaming?



Back in the day before boarding gate tunnels, DC-9’s used the stairs in the tail and the front door for boarding. After D B Cooper used the aft air stairs to parachute out with his loot, they were locked out. Some airports have gates that use front and mid/rear doors. 

Piston airplanes like Connies and DC-4/6/7 used front and rear stairs.

Cheers


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## beejaybeeohio (Apr 18, 2018)

I'm usually not peeved about other pax; however we are between flights at this moment and I now do have a big pet peeve- a headache from perfume overdose!!  To me it's an odor that lasts the entire flight vs. a fart or two that dissipates and usually is beyond the control of the culprit.


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## klpca (Apr 18, 2018)

Here's a previously unmentioned pet peeve: when your airline cancels your flight less than 2 weeks before your departure. Shall I cut my vacation short by one day - or - add a day, but leave from an airport in a different city? Fun times. I just received this email about a half hour ago from Volaris. I'm trying to make like a duck and let it roll off my back, but jeez, I'm really not too happy about this.


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## clifffaith (Apr 18, 2018)

silentg said:


> All of these seem trivial after that scary flight on Southwest from New York heading to Dallas. Had to be emergency landed in Pennsylvania. Very sad.



I hope she was knocked unconscious going through the window so instantaneously that she never had the tiniest inkling of what was happening. Such a tragedy.


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## Pardytime (Apr 18, 2018)

One of my pet peeves is related to... DON’T GRAB MY SEAT!  as in, don't sit in my assigned seat.  I prefer a window seat and pay extra for seat assignment and at least 25% of the time arrive at my seat to find someone else in it. After politely bringing to their attention that I have that seat, I have gotten various reactions from sullen and non responsive, to nastiness for the rest of the flight. I don't like to be put in the position of having to ask for my seat. Asking the Flight attendant to intervene feels like calling the cops.


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## LannyPC (Apr 18, 2018)

AbelowDS said:


> *4. SPEND THE $25 AND CHECK THAT OVERSIZED BAG.*  Yes, you made it past everyone with a bag that is bigger than allowed. You squish it into the overhead compartment, not caring whose belongings you crush, not caring that you are using more space than was intended for you.  And on the occasion when all the overhead space is used up, you piss and moan that you now need to gate-check the bag (even though you're getting it checked for free instead of for $25.)



A little off-topic here and I hope I'm not opening a big, new can of worms and I know this topic has been discussed at length here on TUG but this is one reason why airlines should reconsider charging for checked bags.  Sadly, it makes people stuff more stuff into and bring more carry-ons on board.


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## x3 skier (Apr 18, 2018)

I’m Surprised nobody is peeved about people who bring aboard their support Peacocks.

Cheers


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## Jan M. (Apr 18, 2018)

Lydlady said:


> Is there a general etiquette rule about armrests?



Okay some common sense here. The aisle and window seats obviously have an armrest that is just theirs but they are not entitled to both. The middle seat is dependent on at least one of those two fellow passengers not being inconsiderate hogs. However that doesn't mean the middle seat should get both armrests for the entire flight. When I have the middle seat I try to take turns using just one at a time and switch off part way through the flight. Quite often the window seat passenger seems to fall asleep or leans to the other side which leaves that armrest open. As long as I can see they wouldn't be using that armrest I use it and leave the other one open. I don't have the right to commandeer both armrests at the same time anymore than the passengers on either side of me do.

I fully admit to being overweight but not so much that I can't fit my body in my space and only my space. Overweight people aren't the only space offenders. If you have long legs or really big shoulders and they spill over into the middle seat space you need to buy two seats. I've sat through an entire flight in the middle seat not just with no armrest but with way more body contact from long legs and big shoulders than anyone should have to put up with. Sorry I didn't enjoy your arm or elbow over into my space and pressing into me or having your leg pressed against mine. This also applies to the younger men who feel they have to have their legs spread way apart when they sit down. I swear the next time I'm seated next to one of these men I'm going to pointedly look down and tell him "Honey, I know your boys aren't big enough to need that much space so unless you want me to tell the flight attendant you are a pervert keep your leg out of my space."



beejaybeeohio said:


> I now do have a big pet peeve- a headache from perfume overdose!! To me it's an odor that lasts the entire flight vs. a fart or two that dissipates and usually is beyond the control of the culprit.



Perfume is a major issue for me as many perfumes give me a migraine. I fully admit to being old school when it comes to perfume. A lady's perfume should only be enough to be smelled by someone in close proximity to her. To wear more than that indicates you are uneducated in the social graces or are less than a lady. If when someone wearing heavy perfume is seated in my vicinity I immediately ask the flight attendant if I can move anywhere else. A few months back I was on a completely full flight and that wasn't possible. The woman was in the row ahead me and used the restroom midway through the flight and just before the plane started to descend. Both times she applied more perfume. I wish I could say this is the only time I've ever seen a woman do this on a flight. Apparently this woman was oblivious to the dirty looks from the flight attendant and fellow passengers the first time she reapplied it and the second time she received some rather rude remarks much to my amusement. One person even covered their face with the front of their jacket to make sure she understood how offensive they found her cloud of perfume. I always have an allergy pill in my purse and had taken it right away and always have tissues too but after she reapplied it the second time my nose and eyes were streaming non stop and I was repeatedly sneezing. I was glad I had already quietly explained and apologized to my seat mates so they knew I wasn't getting sick with something they could catch.

Our funny, but not so funny gas/fart story. We still remember a four hour flight home from Vegas when a woman seated next to me had terrible, absolutely foul gas. My husband and I had aisle seats across from each other. When this couple boarded we offered to trade seats and sit next to each other so this woman, late 20's to early 30's, and her boyfriend could sit next to each other. She declined which I thought was odd but figured they might not be getting along. Then the gas started. Every about 15 minutes a foul cloud of gas so bad I tried not to breathe but couldn't hold my breath long enough for that to dissipate. The person on the other side of her was hugging the wall of the plane and sound asleep before we even took off but every once in a while after one of her gas eruptions would blearily open his eyes, look around puzzled then go right back to sleep. I normally sleep through a night flight too but not that time. I wanted to ask her if something crawled up inside her and died! I offered her mints, gum, a pepcid hoping they would settle her stomach but she declined them. I not so subtly told her anytime she wanted out to just let me know even if I nodded off. Finally just before the plane was about to start the descent she got up and went to the restroom. She took her tote bag from the overhead bin with her and when she finally came back I thought she had changed her pants. No more gas for the rest of the flight. I really wanted and came close to bitching her out about why couldn't she have just used the restroom over three hours ago and spared me three hours of breathing her foul stench instead of holding it in so she wouldn't have to use the restroom on the plane. We had a good laugh on the way home about her hiding her problem from her boyfriend who btw slept the whole flight home. My husband said I was nicer than he would have been. He had gotten a whiff across the aisle one time he woke up and I had tipped my head towards her to indicate it was her so he knew what was going on but said if he had known it was so bad I couldn't sleep that he would have woken the boyfriend up and asked him to trade seats with me saying he wanted me next to him.


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## mdurette (Apr 18, 2018)

x3 skier said:


> I’m Surprised nobody is peeved about people who bring aboard their support Peacocks.
> 
> Cheers


that's funny!


----------



## mdurette (Apr 18, 2018)

mdurette said:


> that's funny!



and really....who the heck passes gas on a plane!   Rude.


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## Jan M. (Apr 18, 2018)

mdurette said:


> and really....who the heck passes gas on a plane!   Rude.



I wish I could say that it is uncommon but that wouldn't be true. Passing gas is a pretty normal body function and frequently goes unnoticed by others. Some people are nervous flyers, some eat heavy or spicy meals before flying and then are those who hold it in to avoid using the restrooms on the planes. These people are the not so fragrant fliers. Lol


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## Sapper (Apr 18, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Okay some common sense here. The aisle and window seats obviously have an armrest that is just theirs but they are not entitled to both. The middle seat is dependent on at least one of those two fellow passengers not being inconsiderate hogs. However that doesn't mean the middle seat should get both armrests for the entire flight. When I have the middle seat I try to take turns using just one at a time and switch off part way through the flight. Quite often the window seat passenger seems to fall asleep or leans to the other side which leaves that armrest open. As long as I can see they wouldn't be using that armrest I use it and leave the other one open. I don't have the right to commandeer both armrests at the same time anymore than the passengers on either side of me do.
> 
> I fully admit to being overweight but not so much that I can't fit my body in my space and only my space. Overweight people aren't the only space offenders. If you have long legs or really big shoulders and they spill over into the middle seat space you need to buy two seats. I've sat through an entire flight in the middle seat not just with no armrest but with way more body contact from long legs and big shoulders than anyone should have to put up with. Sorry I didn't enjoy your arm or elbow over into my space and pressing into me or having your leg pressed against mine. This also applies to the younger men who feel they have to have their legs spread way apart when they sit down. I swear the next time I'm seated next to one of these men I'm going to pointedly look down and tell him "Honey, I know your boys aren't big enough to need that much space so unless you want me to tell the flight attendant you are a pervert keep your leg out of my space."
> 
> ...



To me, who ever the poor wretch stuck in the middle seat is, they get both arm rests. I tend to be an aisle seat guy, and will tell the middle seat it's theirs.  

Regarding the gas............ Deep breath (no pun intended).....
Returning from the first part of our honeymoon in Antigua, I both caught some kind of stomach bug AND had eaten something bad our last night at the resort (Sandals is evil). The morning of the flight, I felt something; by the time we were on the flight, things were not good. I ended up in the ER upon arrival into Houston. The point of my embarrassing story is some times things cannot be helped.


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## Jan M. (Apr 18, 2018)

Sapper said:


> To me, who ever the poor wretch stuck in the middle seat is, they get both arm rests. I tend to be an aisle seat guy, and will tell the middle seat it's theirs.
> 
> Regarding the gas............ Deep breath (no pun intended).....
> Returning from the first part of our honeymoon in Antigua, I both caught some kind of stomach bug AND had eaten something bad our last night at the resort (Sandals is evil). The morning of the flight, I felt something; by the time we were on the flight, things were not good. I ended up in the ER upon arrival into Houston. The point of my embarrassing story is some times things cannot be helped.



What a way to end your honeymoon! I imagine you were in great distress. I had food poisoning once when we were in Vegas on vacation. Being sick like that away from home was bad enough but being stuck on a plane going through that is the stuff of nightmares!


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## Sapper (Apr 18, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> What a way to end your honeymoon! I imagine you were in great distress. I had food poisoning once when we were in Vegas on vacation. Being sick like that away from home was bad enough but being stuck on a plane going through that is the stuff of nightmares!



Returning from Antigua was the half way mark in the planned honeymoon, but you are correct, that was the end. Haha. Luckily, my new bride was a champ through it... and she has not fired me yet (now six years later).


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## dougp26364 (Apr 19, 2018)

For the most part, we are to the point we hate flying. With that said, if everyone was considerate of other passengers things would be different.
So, my pet peeves while flying in no particular order.

1. People at the ticket counter who can’t figure out the kiosks, want to debate oversized/overweight luggage or check firearms without knowing the rules. Essentially all the people who slow up the process fighting with the counter agents

2. Passengers not prepared to go thru the TSA checkpoint. Pre-check has alleviated some of that problem

3. TSA agents with an overdeveloped sense of authority

4. Parents who allow their children to treat the airport as if its a playground.

5. Gate lice (We fly SWA’s whenever reasonable because of their boarding process)

6. Passengers with over stuffed carry on bags they have to fight to get into the over Head bin.

7. Passengers who hold up the boarding process because they can’t grasp the significance of finding your seat and sitting down vs having a debate about who sits in which seat (decide that BEFORE you board the plane.)

8. Passengers that absolutely have to be the first one off the plane unless it’s a situation with a tight connection. If it’s a tight connection, speak with a flight attendant. They can be very helpful.

9. Space invaders.

10.conversationalist. (Noise cancelling headphones fix this problem MOST of the time)

11. Drunks and tweakers.

12. Passengers who can’t follow basic instructions. Whatever it is you have in the overhead bin can wait if the fasten seatbelt sign is on. It won’t be just you that’s injuered if/when turbulence knocks you off your feet.

13. Seat grabbers/kickers

14. Passengers who can’t decide if the shade should be up or down or passengers on early morning flights that allow The sun to blind fellow passengers.

15. Passengers who practice personal hygiene during the flight.

16. passengers who bath in cologne or perfume

17. Passengers who don’t bath or brush their teeth before a flight (I acknowledge some passengers are on VERY long itenerarys but, come on, an early morning flight from Wichita, KS to anywhere isn’t one of them)

18.Flight attendants with an overdeveloped sense of duty (rare, but I have seen a few that have gestapo like zeal when it comes to bags under the seat in front of you)

19. People who step off a moving walkway or escalator and then just stand in the way of everyone else getting off.

20. Groups of people who stand and block moving walkways when others are trying to get make a tight connection. 

I have more but, you get the idea. I really don’t like flying any more than I have too. Then again I hate driving 2 days when I can make the flight in 5 or 6 hours. Generally speaking most passengers are fine on a flight and I very rarely have an issue with a flight attendant. Unfortunately there’s usually one or two passengers on a flight that can be an issue. Some because they just don’t fly very often. Some because they don’t care. Some trying to keep expenses down. Some because they’re anxious flyers.

Most of the time I have a movie or two loaded on my iPad and noise cancelling headphones and that solves many issues on the plane. We arrive VERY early at the airport so we’re not stressed by other passengers when checking in or going thru the TSA check point. I’ve learned to enjoy the fashion show  at the gate for entertainment and we’ll try to find a restaurant we’re we can sit for a meal before or between flights. There are ways to mitigate the issues and discomforts associated with flying and we’ve found ways around a lot of them.


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## Sapper (Apr 19, 2018)

dougp26364 said:


> For the most part, we are to the point we hate flying. With that said, if everyone was considerate of other passengers things would be different.
> So, my pet peeves while flying in no particular order.
> 
> 1. People at the ticket counter who can’t figure out the kiosks, want to debate oversized/overweight luggage or check firearms without knowing the rules. Essentially all the people who slow up the process fighting with the counter agents
> ...




A private aircraft would alleviate every issue you cite. Only you and your friends or family on board, leaves when you want it to, no silly TSA garbage, etc.


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## PigsDad (Apr 19, 2018)

dougp26364 said:


> 15. Passengers who practice personal hygiene during the flight.


So just to be clear, clipping my toenails when seated next to you is bad?  

Kurt


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## JudyH (Apr 19, 2018)

Comfort animals of any type.  Loud continuously talking people.  People who invade my tiny space.  People who bring smelly food.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 19, 2018)

Sapper said:


> A private aircraft would alleviate every issue you cite. Only you and your friends or family on board, leaves when you want it to, no silly TSA garbage, etc.



And that is what keeps me buying lottery tickets


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## dougp26364 (Apr 19, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> So just to be clear, clipping my toenails when seated next to you is bad?
> 
> Kurt



Yes, but mostly when one flies up and lands in my small cup of Coke they ration out


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## rickandcindy23 (Apr 19, 2018)

Rick is tall and skinny.  He is underweight for his height.  He is really terrible about spreading his legs apart, wherever he is sitting.  On a plane, on a Disney ride, in a car, everywhere.  He doesn't like sitting with his knees together, as I was always taught.  I feel a bit sorry for the people in coach sitting next to him, when he takes that middle seat because his knees may be in their space a bit.  It's a strange habit.


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## AbelowDS (Apr 19, 2018)

This _just_ popped up on my feed.  Given our discussion, the timing was perfect.

Major airline putting in place girth restrictions, though not for the reasons we've been discussing.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-waist-size-restriction-on-passengers.271661/


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 19, 2018)

dougp26364 said:


> PigsDad said:
> 
> 
> > So just to be clear, clipping my toenails when seated next to you is bad?
> ...



What about using the air vent to dry underwear?


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## AbelowDS (Apr 19, 2018)

This is a great thread. Thank you to the original poster


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## slip (Apr 19, 2018)

dougp26364 said:


> For the most part, we are to the point we hate flying. With that said, if everyone was considerate of other passengers things would be different.
> So, my pet peeves while flying in no particular order.
> 
> 1. People at the ticket counter who can’t figure out the kiosks, want to debate oversized/overweight luggage or check firearms without knowing the rules. Essentially all the people who slow up the process fighting with the counter agents
> ...



Wow, as I was reading this, when I got toward the bottom, I thought I was going to see breathing listed.


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## Jimster (Apr 19, 2018)

FYI. One blogger wrote that their is a scientific reason why people fart more on the plane.  It has to do with reduced air pressure because of the altitude.


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## taterhed (Apr 19, 2018)

Giant Peeve:  Passengers who let their animals or kids out of the cage (sic) and let them wander the aisles or eat off the tray tables.  Think about it and ask questions if you must.  Not in order.

Armrests:  Middle passenger gets at least one armrest.  Otherwise, middle seat gets to hold onto the seatback in front of them, at shoulder level, arms straight-out.....to protect and enforce the space that they paid for. I had to do this for 6 hours on a Hawaii segment this year.  The guys on either side of me (friends) didn't like that I was in the 'open' seat between them (which wasn't open because I bought it) and were hoping I'd move to another middle seat (if there even was one).  Finally, I started pushing back.  They quit leaning on me finally and found someplace to put their arms/elbows besides me.  It was very rude.

Oh yeah:  PS  Every 'live' human being on the aircraft passes gas during the flight.  Fact.  Some however, show little restraint and more...er, fragrant than others.

http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/healt...makes-you-flatulent-how-reduce-it-and-whether


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## Sapper (Apr 19, 2018)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> What about using the air vent to dry underwear?



I tend to give my fellow travellers a lot of leeway. You never know what they are dealing with, and the whole air travel situation of today only serves to make things more stressful. However, even I think this is excessive. A bit comical while sitting on my couch, but I'd probably say something were I sitting near by... Though my wife would probably beat me to it, and be much more polite.


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## taterhed (Apr 19, 2018)

Yeah, that's virtually unbeatable. 

Perhaps she was cleaning her glasses with them.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 19, 2018)

taterhed said:


> Yeah, that's virtually unbeatable.
> 
> Perhaps she was cleaning her glasses with them.


Did you also notice that she warlords the two adjacent vents so that she can get more airflow.


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## taterhed (Apr 19, 2018)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Did you also notice that she warlords the two adjacent vents so that she can get more airflow.



in for a penny, in for a pound


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## dougp26364 (Apr 19, 2018)

slip said:


> Wow, as I was reading this, when I got toward the bottom, I thought I was going to see breathing listed.



You must have missed the section on personal hygiene or not brushing their teeth.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 19, 2018)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> What about using the air vent to dry underwear?



I bet she was regretting not wearing a thong.


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## MabelP (Apr 19, 2018)

People who bring smelly lunches on board.


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## isisdave (Apr 19, 2018)

LannyPC said:


> A little off-topic here and I hope I'm not opening a big, new can of worms and I know this topic has been discussed at length here on TUG but this is one reason why airlines should reconsider charging for checked bags.  Sadly, it makes people stuff more stuff into and bring more carry-ons on board.



And I'm more than a little concerned about all the recent evacuation videos where people insisted on bringing their carryons!


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## artringwald (Apr 19, 2018)

klpca said:


> Here's a previously unmentioned pet peeve: when your airline cancels your flight less than 2 weeks before your departure. Shall I cut my vacation short by one day - or - add a day, but leave from an airport in a different city? Fun times. I just received this email about a half hour ago from Volaris. I'm trying to make like a duck and let it roll off my back, but jeez, I'm really not too happy about this.


How about an airline that cancels the return flight, when it's their last flight of the season, and doesn't do anything to help get everyone home.

Tourists Stranded in Mexico After the Season's Final Flight Is Canceled

A couple of days later, Sun Country got tired of the bad PR and offered to compensate the passengers for the "reasonable expenses" it took to get themselves back home.


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## klpca (Apr 19, 2018)

artringwald said:


> How about an airline that cancels the return flight, when it's their last flight of the season, and doesn't do anything to help get everyone home.
> 
> Tourists Stranded in Mexico After the Season's Final Flight Is Canceled
> 
> A couple of days later, Sun Country got tired of the bad PR and offered to compensate the passengers for the "reasonable expenses" it took to get themselves back home.


I saw that! What gives? What a terrible way to deal with an issue. What kind of company wouldn't even try to resolve it instead of just washing their hands of it? I'm glad that the social media pressure was successful in getting some compensation for those stranded travelers.


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## clifffaith (Apr 19, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> I wish I could say that it is uncommon but that wouldn't be true. Passing gas is a pretty normal body function and frequently goes unnoticed by others. Some people are nervous flyers, some eat heavy or spicy meals before flying and then are those who hold it in to avoid using the restrooms on the planes. These people are the not so fragrant fliers. Lol



Alright, you've forced my hand. Back in the day when they fed you in economy, we were served scrambled eggs on a flight from LA to Dallas. Cliff was on the aisle, I was in the middle, and a man was at the window, asleep. A gawd awful stench came from Cliff's direction after breakfast and he was playing innocent and shaking his head it wasn't him when it was obvious it was. From the direction of the window comes the words "Not I, said the pig." That was uproarious to me because that was a favorite children's story of Cliff's (Who will help me bake the cake? asked the little red hen) and he often brought it up when asked to help with a chore. I lost it and started laughing and then the man said "Jeez, I thought I was having a nightmare!" It was all over at that point and this perfect stranger and I were literally laughing in each other's arms. We were diverted to Tulsa and were on the moving sidewalk going one direction and passed the man and his wife and kids going the opposite. The man pointed at Cliff and the kids all started laughing, which of course set me off again.


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## LannyPC (Apr 20, 2018)

isisdave said:


> And I'm more than a little concerned about all the recent evacuation videos where people insisted on bringing their carryons!



Do you mean that people were bringing their carry-ons on board or that they insisted on bringing the carry-ons with them during the evacuation (when the instructions are clear not to bring any personal items with you)?


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## klpca (Apr 20, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> It seems like I recall a time when passenger loading / unloading used to occur at both ends of the plane - front and rear - concurrently.  Or was I dreaming?


We've done this a few times in Cabo. So fast!


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## Tia (Apr 20, 2018)

there used to be a rolling laughing head. I needed this laugh your story here provided today!!




clifffaith said:


> Alright, you've forced my hand. Back in the day when they fed you in economy, we were served scrambled eggs on a flight from LA to Dallas. Cliff was on the aisle, I was in the middle, and a man was at the window, asleep. A gawd awful stench came from Cliff's direction after breakfast and he was playing innocent and shaking his head it wasn't him when it was obvious it was. From the direction of the window comes the words "Not I, said the pig." That was uproarious to me because that was a favorite children's story of Cliff's (Who will help me bake the cake? asked the little red hen) and he often brought it up when asked to help with a chore. I lost it and started laughing and then the man said "Jeez, I thought I was having a nightmare!" It was all over at that point and this perfect stranger and I were literally laughing in each other's arms. We were diverted to Tulsa and were on the moving sidewalk going one direction and passed the man and his wife and kids going the opposite. The man pointed at Cliff and the kids all started laughing, which of course set me off again.


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## taterhed (Apr 20, 2018)

LannyPC said:


> Do you mean that people were bringing their carry-ons on board or that they insisted on bringing the carry-ons with them during the evacuation (when the instructions are clear not to bring any personal items with you)?



YES!!!!


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## LannyPC (Apr 20, 2018)

Which airplane flight mishap was this one above?


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## jehb2 (Apr 22, 2018)

My pet peeve.  My kids’ tickets cost the same as an adult.  There is no kid discount on the airlines I fly.  But some think kids are not entitled to a carryon and personal item like everyone else.


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## Sapper (Apr 23, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> My pet peeve.  My kids’ tickets cost the same as an adult.  There is no kid discount on the airlines I fly.  But some think kids are not entitled to a carryon and personal item like everyone else.



If your child is occupying a seat (don't ever do the "lap baby" thing, its dangerous), then the cost / revenue to the airline is the same.  That being said, I do not know of any airline who will add restrictions onto a seat just because a child is in it.  If a normal ticket allows a carry on, then the additional ticket purchased for the child will allow a carry on.


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## jehb2 (Apr 23, 2018)

On a Rick Steves Forum a regular person said he hates it when he sees a family of 5 with 5 carry ons and 5 personal items.  "They don't need that much why don't they just combine their stuff into less suitcases."  

Twice British Airways stopped us as we were boarding the plane because the gate attendant said we had to much stuff. We had 4 rollerbags which I had measured and weighed because we were doing a lot of train travel.  My husband and I each had small crossbody sling bags and both my kids had drawstring backpacks.  I showed the attendant 4 boarding passes.  she said "Oh, you have 4 tickets. Well it simply won't fit." I put each of our bags in their little measuring cube with no problem. But she kept saying it simply won't fit. So I gave her 2 bags.  The bin above our seats remained empty during our flight.  I have pictures.  

On the second BA flight I gate checked two bags.  my bag was tagged and I had to drop it off right before stepping on the plane and still a supervisor chased me down the walkway.  

In Dallas on American (and this only happened once on American) a gate attendant stopped us as we walked downed the walkway.  He said we had too many bags. My kids had their small violins and string backpacks.  I had a Costco soft side cooler and my crossbody sling bag.  My husband had his crossbody sling bag and computer backpack.  We had two items each.  Most of our stuff including the violins fit under the seats.  Still the attendant kept recounting our bags.

Most of the time this is not an issue.  However, every once in a while I'll hear a snotty comment when there is a family of 5 with 5 rollerbags and 5 backpacks and everyone is carrying their own bag.  I always go up to the mom and say you guys are impressive.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 23, 2018)

I usually carry my wife’s carry on for her down the jetway (she carries her purse, I’m not that crazy). Once in a great while I get stopped and told I have to many bags. I guess I’m sort of a jerk because I do the math for them, “two passes, two carry on’s. and two personal items. I’m just being a gentleman and carrying my wife’s bag for her....unless you’d like to take it for her......” I haven’t had one offer to carry her bag nor have I had one say another word about it.


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## Sapper (Apr 23, 2018)

jehb2 said:


> On a Rick Steves Forum a regular person said he hates it when he sees a family of 5 with 5 carry ons and 5 personal items.  "They don't need that much why don't they just combine their stuff into less suitcases."
> 
> Twice British Airways stopped us as we were boarding the plane because the gate attendant said we had to much stuff. We had 4 rollerbags which I had measured and weighed because we were doing a lot of train travel.  My husband and I each had small crossbody sling bags and both my kids had drawstring backpacks.  I showed the attendant 4 boarding passes.  she said "Oh, you have 4 tickets. Well it simply won't fit." I put each of our bags in their little measuring cube with no problem. But she kept saying it simply won't fit. So I gave her 2 bags.  The bin above our seats remained empty during our flight.  I have pictures.
> 
> ...



When my wife, son and I have flown, we have not had issues once I show the additional ticket for our son.  We take a carry on each per person, and one personal item per person.  If the flight is over booked (happens less these days), and they are asking everyone to gate check their bag, we have had some push to check... but no more than they are doing to the folks ahead and behind us in line.

The guy on the Rick Steves forum can hate it all he wants.  I hate the airlines reduced service, ever shrinking legroom, over bearing TSA agents, etc.... nothing I can do about it.  You paid for the additional ticket(s), hence you have paid for the carry on etc that comes with that ticket (and in some cases like Spirit, you literally pay for the carry on).  NOW, if the airline wants to discuss reduced cost tickets for children which delete the carry on, that is a separate matter.


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## lvhmbh (Apr 29, 2018)

Gate lice can definitely be a problem.  We usually either upgrade, or buy miles, so we fly in Business.  We were in the priority boarding lane and this man was waving to his family that just boarded but not moving.  I politely said excuse me and he ignored me.  DH asked him if he was in First or Business and if not, would he please let me by.  He became extremely huffy.  When he finally boarding quite a bit later he went on this rant at DH about his "entitlement", etc.

As to the perfume - that is really a problem for me.  I am allergic (get a headache) when someone is wearing too much. It developed later in life and I actually used to wear perfume - no more.  I boarded an elevator in Vegas where a woman was bathed in perfume.  I covered my nose as it was really unbearable (didn't pinch nose - not that rude lol).  Woman asked me if I was sick and I told her no just allergic to her perfumer.  She turned to her husband and asked him if she was wearing too much.   Loooong pause and then he finally said "I didn't know how to tell you but you do it all the time".  Exit elevator quickly lol!


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## Talent312 (Apr 29, 2018)

Pet Peeve: A 40-minute layover that I will face on Wednesday. Southwest says it's doable.
They say the gates at Houston-Hobby will be almost next door; otherwise I'd say no-go.
_Keeping my fingers crossed._
.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 29, 2018)

Generally speaking 40 minutes is doable......so long as everything goes correctly and your initial flight is on time.

I’m like you in that I try to avoid short layovers. For us it’s anything under 1 hour. Saying that, we have made our share of 30 minute connections. It’s happened when that hour long connection was cut down due to the outbound flight arriving late at the gate


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## taterhed (Apr 30, 2018)

LannyPC said:


> Which airplane flight mishap was this one above?


That was the Asiana flight in San Francisco. Numerous passengers carried luggage out of the airplane and even some passengers went back inside the burning airplane to get luggage out and passed it down. Sadly, one passenger was run over by a fire truck in the surrounding debris and killed. That's why it's important to safely and quickly move away from an airplane on evacuation not carrying luggage and paying attention to passengers not possessions.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## icydog (Apr 30, 2018)

Sapper said:


> A private aircraft would alleviate every issue you cite. Only you and your friends or family on board, leaves when you want it to, no silly TSA garbage, etc.



I’m not poor but isn’t a private aircraft ridiculously expensive? So expensive as to be prohibitive for almost all Americans.  At least all that I know. 

I try to fly business when I have to fly.  I hate flying, but flying upfront is a million times better than the same trip in the back. I use my miles,  or I pay with a combo of cash and miles, but I will do anything to avoid the coach section. 

To add insult to my injury, I have very bad hips and herniated disks in my back. I’m usually in terrible pain.  

I have so much trouble trying to get out of my coach seat that I inevitably bump the person in front of me.  What I do is buy that person and his or her flying companion a drink.  Amazingly a drink almost always makes things better.


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## Sapper (Apr 30, 2018)

icydog said:


> I’m not poor but isn’t a private aircraft ridiculously expensive? So expensive as to be prohibitive for almost all Americans.  At least all that I know.
> 
> I try to fly business when I have to fly.  I hate flying, but flying upfront is a million times better than the same trip in the back. I use my miles,  or I pay with a combo of cash and miles, but I will do anything to avoid the coach section.
> 
> ...



As with everything in life, it's in the details.  If you are flying your own little single engine airplane (like a Cessna 172), then it is analogous to using a car.  If you are in the new Gulfstream 650, then one flight could pay for the house I live in.

I have a little Cessna.  It flys at apx 150MPH (135Kt) and burns 20 gallons of fuel per hour.  Fuel cost is $4.50 a gallon, so I'm paying just shy of $100/hour.  If I fly from Houston to Aspen, it's about six hours.  That's about $1200 round trip for fuel, say another $25/hour in maintenance cost and we are up to $1500 for a trip to Aspen.  The bird holds four souls comfortably plus luggage (it's bigger than the Cessna 172 cited above, the costs would actually be lower with that airplane).  Four plane tickets on United to Aspen would run $1003 each (I just did it through expedia).  That's $4k for four people on the airline, or $1500 in the little Cessna.  You could airline in to Denver, suffer the joys of Spirit Airlines, rent a car and drive in... the airline cost will be about $800 for everyone plus bags, and another $500 for the car... so just under the little Cessna cost.  HOWEVER, Spirit flys at odd times, and there is the additional four hour drive each way to and from Denver... so you end up loosing a day (or two) to travel. 

I will be the first to admit that if you are flying internationally, then the airlines are the way to go.  However, domestically, particularly to places the airlines don't service, or charge a premium to service, or where it takes a long time to drive, a little airplane can make things happen for you.  Also, in the initial posting, cost was not a consideration.


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## PigsDad (Apr 30, 2018)

Sapper said:


> I have a little Cessna.  It flys at apx 150MPH (135Kt) and burns 20 gallons of fuel per hour.  Fuel cost is $4.50 a gallon, so I'm paying just shy of $100/hour.  If I fly from Houston to Aspen, it's about six hours.  That's about $1200 round trip for fuel, say another $25/hour in maintenance cost and we are up to $1500 for a trip to Aspen.  The bird holds four souls comfortably plus luggage (it's bigger than the Cessna 172 cited above, the costs would actually be lower with that airplane).  Four plane tickets on United to Aspen would run $1003 each (I just did it through expedia).  That's $4k for four people on the airline, or $1500 in the little Cessna.  You could airline in to Denver, suffer the joys of Spirit Airlines, rent a car and drive in... the airline cost will be about $800 for everyone plus bags, and another $500 for the car... so just under the little Cessna cost.  HOWEVER, Spirit flys at odd times, and there is the additional four hour drive each way to and from Denver... so you end up loosing a day (or two) to travel.


Sorry, that's an apples to oranges comparison.  You obviously have a pilot's license.  And it looks like you have a plane.

Question: how much would it cost the _*average*_ person (without a pilot's license and a plane) to *charter* that flight?  To leave when you want to leave and to return when you want to return. Way more than your $1500, I'm sure.  I'm guessing it is closer to 10X your cost that you outlined.

Kurt


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## Sapper (Apr 30, 2018)

A charter flight is apples to ten oranges comparison.  You won't find a part 135 charter operator using little piston aircraft, so that is a whole different level of cost.  My comparison is realistic to the common guy.  I have a pilots license, you probably have a drivers license.  I have a little plane, you probably have a car.  There is not a massive gulf between the two.  There IS a massive gulf between the small aircraft I am describing and small jets.  All this being said, the initial text did NOT take cost into account.


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## icydog (May 1, 2018)

My husband had a pilot's license.  He would rent a plane for the day and we’d have an adventure. His dream was to own a small Cessna but I was always so afraid in the air it would have been a bad investment for us.  I do know that he and you could spend the day talking about airplanes and flying.


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## Sapper (May 1, 2018)

icydog said:


> My husband had a pilot's license.  He would rent a plane for the day and we’d have an adventure. His dream was to own a small Cessna but I was always so afraid in the air it would have been a bad investment for us.  I do know that he and you could spend the day talking about airplanes and flying.



Love aviation. Yup, could sit around the hanger all day and chat about it (much to my wife's dismay ).


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## PrairieGirl (May 1, 2018)

Sapper said:


> Love aviation. Yup, could sit around the hanger all day and chat about it (much to my wife's dismay ).



A bit off topic, but I just can't help but tell this story since we ARE a group of timesharers!  We were at a small resort on Maui in December and went to the "update" to get a great discount on a helicopter tour (I know, but I actually wanted to learn more about the RCI points program because we are weeks owners).  The nice young lady who signed us up PROMISED that it would only be an hour (what, not 90 minutes?) and not like any presentation that we had been to before.  Well, she was right on that one! 

It turned out that this resort group only has a few foreclosed weeks that they are selling for the HOA, our rep was the manager of the sales dept and somehow in the first five minutes he and my husband discovered that they were both pilots with small planes. An hour later when they were still engrossed in talk about flying around the islands I had to wave my hand and say "but I really DO have a timeshare question or two to ask!"


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## Sapper (May 1, 2018)

PrairieGirl said:


> A bit off topic, but I just can't help but tell this story since we ARE a group of timesharers!  We were at a small resort on Maui in December and went to the "update" to get a great discount on a helicopter tour (I know, but I actually wanted to learn more about the RCI points program because we are weeks owners).  The nice young lady who signed us up PROMISED that it would only be an hour (what, not 90 minutes?) and not like any presentation that we had been to before.  Well, she was right on that one!
> 
> It turned out that this resort group only has a few foreclosed weeks that they are selling for the HOA, our rep was the manager of the sales dept and somehow in the first five minutes he and my husband discovered that they were both pilots with small planes. An hour later when they were still engrossed in talk about flying around the islands I had to wave my hand and say "but I really DO have a timeshare question or two to ask!"



HAHAHA


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## am1 (May 1, 2018)

I do not like how the bins are filled up but we are occupying a full row of seats.  Surely each row should get some space.  

Thankfully never been in the situation but would not accept someone spilling into my seat.  It is going to be addressed before take off with the person and or the flight crew.

I also do not like how if a choice of free meals is offered do not run out one of the meals when only 2/3rds of the plane is served.  As a family of 4 with kids we should get a choice of meals (at least 1 of each) more then a couple should.  I know it would not be easy for the crew but just because people are sitting up front in economy should not give them a choice of meals over people in the back.  

Mayonaise and ketchup should be available on the side and not already applied to the meals.


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## klpca (May 1, 2018)

am1 said:


> I also do not like how if a choice of free meals is offered do not run out one of the meals when only 2/3rds of the plane is served.  As a family of 4 with kids we should get a choice of meals (at least 1 of each) more then a couple should.  I know it would not be easy for the crew but just because people are sitting up front in economy should not give them a choice of meals over people in the back.


Curious why a family of four should get meal choices over a couple? (We were a family of 5 - just never thought it gave us any priority - for anything). I am honestly trying to see it from your perspective.


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## Egret1986 (May 1, 2018)

klpca said:


> Curious why a family of four should get meal choices over a couple? (We were a family of 5 - just never thought it gave us any priority - for anything). I am honestly trying to see it from your perspective.



Yes, inquiring minds want to know.  Do share this perspective.  I'm curious also.


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## PigsDad (May 1, 2018)

am1 said:


> I know it would not be easy for the crew but just because people are sitting up front in economy should not give them a choice of meals over people in the back.


Well, most likely those people in the front section of economy paid more than those in the back.  They may have paid for economy "plus", reserved seating, or just had loyalty status.  Not all, but most.  Personally, I have no problem with that -- if they paid more or have status, why shouldn't they get some small perks over the back of the bus?

Kurt


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## beejaybeeohio (May 2, 2018)

am1 said:


> I also do not like how if a choice of free meals is offered do not run out one of the meals when only 2/3rds of the plane is served.  As a family of 4 with kids we should get a choice of meals (at least 1 of each) more then a couple should.  I know it would not be easy for the crew but just because people are sitting up front in economy should not give them a choice of meals over people in the back.



We flew business from SYD to YYZ with a stop in YVR (had to disembark & reboard in Vancouver, but same plane). Breakfast was served on both legs (boring), but to make matters worse, I ordered eggs on leg #1 and wanted to spice up my life by ordering pancakes on leg #2.  The steward informed me they were out of pancakes and would I like the eggs instead!  When I explained why not, he magically found me some pancakes!

I agree with posters who don't think having kids flying with you should give you & yours precedence over any other passenger. And since the planes can't fly with double the number of entrees over the number of pax, they likely will run out of one or the other. My suggestion would be to pre-order a special meal for your family, e.g. kosher, kids, diabetic, gluten-free, vegan, etc. if that is even a possibility anymore in this age of aviation.


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## am1 (May 2, 2018)

klpca said:


> Curious why a family of four should get meal choices over a couple? (We were a family of 5 - just never thought it gave us any priority - for anything). I am honestly trying to see it from your perspective.



Because we can decide between the 4 of who (kids or me who does not eat pork) wants the meal they are almost out of more.  Start offering each couple 1 of the meal they are almost out of.  Every two people (one can get the meal they are almost out of until they are out of it.  But serving the front half of economy (all paid the same, we choose to sit in the back as with kids we are closer to the bathrooms and more likely where we can get seats together) all the same meal but they have a choice does not seem right if it means the back half of economy gets a choice of the meal no one wanted or nothing.


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## am1 (May 2, 2018)

beejaybeeohio said:


> We flew business from SYD to YYZ with a stop in YVR (had to disembark & reboard in Vancouver, but same plane). Breakfast was served on both legs (boring), but to make matters worse, I ordered eggs on leg #1 and wanted to spice up my life by ordering pancakes on leg #2.  The steward informed me they were out of pancakes and would I like the eggs instead!  When I explained why not, he magically found me some pancakes!
> 
> I agree with posters who don't think having kids flying with you should give you & yours precedence over any other passenger. And since the planes can't fly with double the number of entrees over the number of pax, they likely will run out of one or the other. My suggestion would be to pre-order a special meal for your family, e.g. kosher, kids, diabetic, gluten-free, vegan, etc. if that is even a possibility anymore in this age of aviation.



Probably one of their breakfasts that they pre choose.  Not sure if they are able to do that or not but I am sure they know ones they do not like.  It is not just about flying with kids just spreading out the choices to more people.  Some people maybe 50/50 on what they want but choose the the one more in demand.  Where a couple or group of 4 have 1 that is dead set against one a 100%.  I have done the veggie and kosher to avoid pork when available but the meal is not much, not that either of the regular meals are much.  

This is one small issue of flying but bothers me more then others as it has a solution that does not rely on other passengers.


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## klpca (May 2, 2018)

am1 said:


> Because we can decide between the 4 of who (kids or me who does not eat pork) wants the meal they are almost out of more.  Start offering each couple 1 of the meal they are almost out of.  Every two people (one can get the meal they are almost out of until they are out of it.  But serving the front half of economy (all paid the same, we choose to sit in the back as with kids we are closer to the bathrooms and more likely where we can get seats together) all the same meal but they have a choice does not seem right if it means the back half of economy gets a choice of the meal no one wanted or nothing.


 I see your point. We can all dream but I'm pretty sure that getting the FA to do that won't be happening any time soon. (SIL is a FA and she just laughs at my suggestions). You should just request special meals - vegetarian is usually easy to get. I have some dietary restrictions (dairy) so my choices are usually limited but vegetarian is my best bet.


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## am1 (May 2, 2018)

klpca said:


> I see your point. We can all dream but I'm pretty sure that getting the FA to do that won't be happening any time soon. (SIL is a FA and she just laughs at my suggestions). You should just request special meals - vegetarian is usually easy to get. I have some dietary restrictions (dairy) so my choices are usually limited but vegetarian is my best bet.



These are pet peeves and not what the airline s want to resolve even as easy as it is.  I do not know if meals are loaded 50/50 or based on previous demand or current availability but at the back of the plane no choice is offered.


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## jehb2 (May 3, 2018)

I’ve been bringing my own meals on planes for years. Way before kids.


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## artringwald (May 5, 2018)

What's next:


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## PigsDad (May 5, 2018)

artringwald said:


> What's next:



It's all good until the landing... 

Kurt


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## klpca (May 6, 2018)

I got stuck next to the overflowing person on my flight today. Not only did I have to sit in the middle with no armrests, the woman on my right overflowed so much that her elbow was regularly in my ribs. Man, I'm a patient person but this is over the limit. The seats are just too small (this lady was big but not morbidly obese or anything) and that is on the airlines, not the people in the seats.


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## am1 (May 6, 2018)

klpca said:


> I got stuck next to the overflowing person on my flight today. Not only did I have to sit in the middle with no armrests, the woman on my right overflowed so much that her elbow was regularly in my ribs. Man, I'm a patient person but this is over the limit. The seats are just too small (this lady was big but not morbidly obese or anything) and that is on the airlines, not the people in the seats.



The size of the seats are the size of the seats.  If someone knows they are too big for one seat they better buy two or share with someone they know that is okay with being overflowed onto.  Anything less is just rude.


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## vacationhopeful (May 6, 2018)

Airline flying is an adventure in "the outback" today ... not relaxing or refreshing. I have been flying SWA for years now.
Even had status a few years ago (did a few flights around to achieve status ... another amusing tale and volunteered for bumps every time I could).

If you bring a bag on board the flight ... YOU must be able to life it up into the overhead and take it down .. else, (gate) check it. And those NEW SWA planes, those overheads are HIGHER up than the older & smaller planes. Sorry, those bins are tough and I should workout on the lifting weights ... I flew about 2 weeks ago, did carry on and had 4 experiences doing the lift UP and into those bins. Love the planes; hate those overhead bins.


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## klpca (May 6, 2018)

am1 said:


> The size of the seats are the size of the seats.  If someone knows they are too big for one seat they better buy two or share with someone they know that is okay with being overflowed onto.  Anything less is just rude.


I don't necessarily disgree. I am big on peronal responsibility. But I had 4+ hours to think about this and I think that this woman would have fit in the old seats. I am 5'8" and weigh 137 lbs. I pretty much fill out the seat, and my elbows nearly touch both arm rests. I'm not big. My husband is on the big side physically with really broad shoulders. Most of him fits in the seat, just not his shoulders. 

Oh well, I was tired last night and being the middle of a human sandwich just wore me down. My attitude is better this morning.


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## beejaybeeohio (May 6, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> Airline flying is an adventure in "the outback" today ... not relaxing or refreshing. I have been flying SWA for years now.
> Even had status a few years ago (did a few flights around to achieve status ... another amusing tale and volunteered for bumps every time I could).
> 
> If you bring a bag on board the flight ... YOU must be able to life it up into the overhead and take it down .. else, (gate) check it. And those NEW SWA planes, those overheads are HIGHER up than the older & smaller planes. Sorry, those bins are tough and I should workout on the lifting weights ... I flew about 2 weeks ago, did carry on and had 4 experiences doing the lift UP and into those bins. Love the planes; hate those overhead bins.



I have no problem lifting my @20 lb bag over my head, BUT I am short of reaching the overhead by about 4 inches-maybe 2 if I tiptoe.  Since the bag is hefted by me above my head but my arms can't raise any higher, I am grateful when a taller person sees my dilemma and gives it the necessary nudge to go in the bin.


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