# Is the HGVC Deal Worth It?  Value of 7000 Points?



## egoldy

Any Hilton Grand Vacation owners out there? 

We sat through a timeshare tour thing in Orlando for the HVGC to get $300+ in bonuses.   Wasn’t going to buy and I’m very experienced on the time share game…  I had trouble translating the $16K plus maintenance fees plus other fees into the “$95K” comparable spend for “renting”.   Never seems to make sense to me so we left..

We were offered 7000 points one time for $1600 as we were leaving.   That seemed better if the unit was nice (but still expensive - maybe?)   We could only use the 7000 points at 6 or so resorts, but again, not sure if that deal was worth it either.

I'm also curious about people's thoughts about buying HGVC stuff on ebay. (e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HGVC-Hilton...683876?hash=item237be867e4:g:rsYAAOSw241YUrsS) 

FInally, I saw this review on Trip Advisor. which describes the proposal that we got very well (and my rough thoughts).   Anyone buy out there?


The HGVC deal, look closer, it's not as good as it seems”

2 of 5 bubblesReviewed January 24, 2014  via mobile

Hilton Grand Vacation Club Waikoloa Village


On the face of it you might think this is a good offer but you have to look closer to see what you're really getting for the money and you'll soon find out it's not a good deal at all.


Let's start with the "Bonus Points" you are promised if you sign there and then on the day without taking the time to do the calculations. We were told if we buy 1 one bedroom condo deed week in prime time period every other year (4,800 points) it would cost us $16,400 and we would get 10,000 HGVC points as a bonus. So what is 10,000 points worth? Well you can convert the HGVC points into hilton honors points and you will get 250,000 HHP. If you have booked a stay at the Hilton hotel in Waikoloa you will know that the lowest class of room costs 50,000 points per night, equivalent in cash $240. So your bonus is actually worth 5 days in the Hilton Waikoloa Hotel (equivalent to $1,200). Not looking very good! Let's look into this deal further... 

This deed gives only 4,800 HGVC points every other year, convert those points to HHP and you get 2.4 nights at the hotel (dollar value $576)


We were also told of the $1,300 maintenance fee per week every other year plus the club fee $136 on the years you are not paying the maintenance fee. Based on ownership for 20 years of enjoyment of this deal would cost you $16,400 down + $13,000 maintenance + $1,360 club fee = $30,760 spent and you will have received 10 weeks vacation accommodation, this makes each vacation stay $3,076 just for a place to stay. If you book a room in the Hilton Waikoloa hotel, it will only cost you $1,680 for the week.


Let's just look at what a rip off the maintenance fee is. HGVC is charging each person $1,300 per week, they sell 50 deeds per condo per year = $65,000 income for hilton just from maintenance. There is no way they spend even 50% of this per year on the upkeep of a 1 bed condo.


Now I hear you say, "but you can sell the deed", well it's not index linked so how much do you think your $16k is worth in 20 years time, maybe you can buy a garden shed with it.


Anyway, needless to say we didn't take up the offer. Once you do the calculations, you will see that the Hilton Team of professional timeshare sellers are simply that, professional con men and women who work on commission and YOU ARE TODAYS TARGET ! DON'T BUY ONE



https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUse...koloa_Kohala_Coast_Island_of_Hawaii_Haw.html#


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## Talent312

Buying any TS direct (retail) is indeed a rip-off.
All TS sales peep bamboozle folks into thinking their TS's have far more value than they do. HGVC can be had on the resale (secondary) market for 1/3 or less the retail $$... about $1.00-1.25/pt for platinum season, $0.75 for gold, & $0.50-0.25 for silver. You can buy resale from marketplace here, a TS-broker, redweek or even e-bay.

You may be able to rent a TS for the same amount as MF's.
But then, you're dealing with the vagaries of the rental market and landlords. Whereas, HGVC itself is a flexible, user-friendly system, that pretty much let's you stay 3N or more, anywhere in the system, in a size and dates of your choosing, and you have access to RCI weeks+points with no advance deposit.

I sound like a cheerleader, but this year, I'm doing five trips thru HGVC, so it works for me.
I suggest that you address additional questions regarding HGVC in the HGVC forum.

.


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## presley

It looks like you already know that buying from Hilton is a very bad deal. You can buy from Ebay, from the Tug Marketplace or from one of the reputable Hilton resale agents for less than half of what Hilton will charge you. You will get the exact same thing.


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## phil1ben

I own one timeshare we bought in 2010 resale through one of the brokers often mentioned here (Judy Kozlowski) for $1.00 per point. It was HGVC for 7000 points Platinum season. We use it and we love it. In addition to paying far more than is necessary for the same product, those that buy retail are inevitably pissed off that they paid so much and once they are enlightened there experience with the product is often tainted. If you are going to use the points ignore the HGVC salesman and bogus bonus points, buy resale without financing your purchase and enjoy the product.


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## fernow

The age old "worth" question.
Is a BMW 3 series worth $42k when a decked out Sonata is $28k?
Is a 3 series for $42k from dealer A worth it when compared to the same car from dealer B for $39k or a used one for $25k?
In HGVC, retail is not a good deal financially, but then neither is a new BMW.  But people buy them all the time.
The real question you should be asking is: Is the risk of owning a timeshare at any price "worth it"?  You, AND YOUR HEIRS will be obligated to pay ever increasing yearly fees FOREVER while the TS company is free to change the rules and benefits anytime they want.  And the yearly fees basically equal what you could rent the property for without ownership.


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## PigsDad

fernow said:


> You, AND YOUR HEIRS will be obligated to pay ever increasing yearly fees FOREVER...


Sorry, but that statement is simply not true.  A person is never forced to inherit a timeshare ownership (or any asset, for that matter).

Kurt


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## egoldy

I read through these and they are fairly frightening...    I think I'll be holding off any type of purchase - direct or resale.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/hilton_grand_vacations.html


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## Jason245

egoldy said:


> I read through these and they are fairly frightening...    I think I'll be holding off any type of purchase - direct or resale.
> 
> https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/hilton_grand_vacations.html


Most of the complaints are a result of people buying and not understanding what they are buying or how to use a timeshare properly.  (This is not the style of vacation for everyone as it requires advanced planning and the making of reservations 6 to 9 month in advance in many instances  ). 

I recommend you go to the newbie board and answer the "what should I buy " questions and then read everything you can for 6 months on the board.  Also, if you find what you like,  rent a week at a resort you are considering.  

I have owned hgv for more than 2 years, booked a number of great vacations, and am very satisfied with my resale purchase and the value I get out of it. That being said I paid next to nothing for it and am ready to dump it for the same penny I bought it for if it becomes something I can no longer use or fully benefit from. 





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## onenotesamba

The $1600 Vacation Introductory Program package (think of it as a "sampler" to get you into another sales pitch), can be a decent deal, depending on how you use it.  Before we bought resale, we took the VIP package at the end of our sales pitch, and used it for a week at Kings' Land in Hawaii (Big Island) in a two bedroom unit, and we took our brother, sister-in-law, niece and nephew.  Considering that six of us stayed in Hawaii for a solid week for $1600 at a beautiful resort, I think we maximized the use of it.  Maybe we could have rented that unit for less, but I don't feel like it was a rip-off, at all.

And before we took the trip, we'd purchased two weeks resale on e-Bay, so our sales pitch the second time around was VERY short.


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## fernow

PigsDad said:


> Sorry, but that statement is simply not true.  A person is never forced to inherit a timeshare ownership (or any asset, for that matter).
> 
> Kurt



Sort of a distinction without a difference.  While you can't force anyone to inherit any asset, your estate remains liable for the yearly fees.  So the TS company can come after your estate, therefore reducing whatever $ you have left to your heirs.  Timeshares are a big problem for heirs, whether they actually inherit them or not.  Read your contract.  There is likely a perpetuity clause or similar.


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## PigsDad

fernow said:


> Sort of a distinction without a difference.  While you can't force anyone to inherit any asset, your estate remains liable for the yearly fees.  So the TS company can come after your estate, therefore reducing whatever $ you have left to your heirs.  Timeshares are a big problem for heirs, whether they actually inherit them or not.  Read your contract.  There is likely a perpetuity clause or similar.


But there are ways for the estate to abandoned a timeshare and close out the estate.  So going back to your original statement, it is still false that "You, AND YOUR HEIRS will be obligated to pay ever increasing yearly fees FOREVER".

Kurt


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## Nomad420

Previously owned TS were all bought resale and cheap.  Have had a pretty good experience with them and can/will dump them in a few years for probably a few dollars more than even I purchased them for.  I do not wish to "dump" them on my heirs and they will sell. One is at Snow Bird in Utah during ski season so their is interest in the resale market for it.  For the first time I did buy retail at the Hilton Club in NYC (last year).  I will be the first to admit it was far from a screaming deal but if you look at the few resale listings at the Hilton Club or 57th ST. there they are not cheap.  The MF have already jumped but I still feel that given what you get there in room size and quality and compared to other forms of lodging in Manhattan I was still saving a few bucks with each booking.  Hopefully if/when I sell out of it if I can get 1/3 to half of what I paid (right now that seems very possible) I won't feel cheated.


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## fernow

Reminder: This is a friendly bbs.  Two statements can be correct, depending on your premise.  Hopefully we all learn something.

While exception may be taken to my ALL CAPS, the point I hope prospective new TS purchasers realize is that your ownership and obligation to pay fees does not expire upon your death.  One way or the other your heirs/executor will have to "deal with" your timeshare.  Quick web search will show you the hassle and expense owning a timeshare at your death can be for your heirs. 

Technically speaking you or your estate are indeed obligated forever.  You likely signed a contract agreeing to that. (Perpetuity Clause) Whether or not you or your estate breech your agreement is up to you/them.  There is no contractual method to give the timeshare back to the TS company upon your death.

Yes, the estate could sell your timeshare, if there is a market for it, after you die.  Or they could try a deed back to the TS company, for a fee, if the TS company accepts the deed back or the estate can stop paying fees (breaching a contract you signed) and will accrue penalties.  The TS company can go after any assets in the estate to satisfy.  Eventually, the TS company will foreclose and take back the property.

Hope this clarifies the intent of my post.  I apologize if the ALL CAPS was offensive.


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## Nomad420

The TS I bought in Utah was from an older gentleman who indeed did not want to pass on the obligation of ownership to his heirs and passed it to me for next to nothing.  He said if I had not purchased it he was just going to default on it and let it pass back to the developers.  At the time (2007) many people were defaulting on them at the Utah resorts.  I was also told at the time to simply go to the court house steps in Salt Lake on a Friday afternoon and you could pick them up for back taxes.  Not sure what a default on a time share would do to your credit rating, maybe someone else can speak to that.


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## hurnik

onenotesamba said:


> The $1600 Vacation Introductory Program package (think of it as a "sampler" to get you into another sales pitch), can be a decent deal, depending on how you use it.  Before we bought resale, we took the VIP package at the end of our sales pitch, and used it for a week at Kings' Land in Hawaii (Big Island) in a two bedroom unit, and we took our brother, sister-in-law, niece and nephew.  Considering that six of us stayed in Hawaii for a solid week for $1600 at a beautiful resort, I think we maximized the use of it.  Maybe we could have rented that unit for less, but I don't feel like it was a rip-off, at all.
> 
> And before we took the trip, we'd purchased two weeks resale on e-Bay, so our sales pitch the second time around was VERY short.



Agreed, if you can stay in Hawaii or NYC, the VIP package can be a good deal (if you're not sure about buying).  I would never use it, though for say Vegas or Orlando.


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## PigsDad

fernow said:


> Reminder: This is a friendly bbs.  Two statements can be correct, depending on your premise.  Hopefully we all learn something.


Sorry, I wasn't offended and I wasn't trying to be unfriendly.  The main reason I responded to your original post is because the comment about your heirs having to pay your obligations is a common scare tactic that the unscrupulous "timeshare relief" companies use in order to coerce victims to pay them thousands of $$$ to get rid of their timeshares for them.  If people knew that their heirs would not be forced to pay MFs, maybe they would not fall for those slime tactics.

I agree that it is good to know the downsides and obligations a buyer is taking on when purchasing a timeshare.  Truth is power, so the more facts people know, the less likely they will fall victim to some scammers.  I just want to keep the truth separate from the hyperbole. 

Cheers! Kurt


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## Nomad420

PigsDad said:


> .  If people knew that their heirs would not be forced to pay MFs, maybe they would not fall for those slime tactics.
> 
> I agree that it is good to know the downsides and obligations a buyer is taking on when purchasing a timeshare.  Truth is power, so the more facts people know, the less likely they will fall victim to some scammers.  I just want to keep the truth separate from the hyperbole.
> 
> Cheers! Kurt



It seems to me that the worse case scenario is you simply default on the MF and let it pass back to the developer.  In some cases they are more than happy to resell it retail.  Also in some states the developer can pass the unpaid MF onto to the other existing owners and is NOT responsible for the MF on defaulted unsold units (I know this is true in Utah and a few years back they attempted to change the law but that seemed to have gone no where).


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## fernow

I do wonder how often, if ever, the TS companies will indeed go after the estate for back MFees and penalties if the executor chooses to default.  It is my understanding that they can.  But do they?  Does anyone know?

I intend to do what the "old man" who sold to Nomad420 did and sell my timeshares when the time is right so my heirs/executor don't have to default, which just never seemed right to me.  How ever stupid it was, I did sign an agreement to pay the fees and obligate my estate.


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## Nomad420

fernow, I have a friend that is about to inherit actually quite a few TS from his aged mother and he really has no interest in them.  Most are in the Carolina's and are golf course resorts.   He has stated he will basically dump them on the market and get what he can from them.  I suspect someone will pick them up for pennies on the dollars.  I will ask him what the estate plans to do IF no one buys them on the open market.


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## Talent312

Sorry, but a contract or deed does not bind an heir to pay a debt, unless the heir was a signatory on the contract or deed. Perpetuity clauses may extend the life of the property rights and liens, but cannot create a personal liability for someone who was not a party to the document.

Even an estate's liability for debts associated with the TS has limitations... In many states, probate laws specify a limited period of time in which creditors may file claims, after which future claims are barred. In Florida, its 90-days after notice. Thus, an estate may be on the hook for MF's due and overdue; but otherwise, its not obligated for amounts not timely claimed.

The TS is still subject to foreclosure of the the lien for MF's, but if the administrator has the consent of the heirs or the probate court, he or she may simply abandon the TS and allow foreclosure to proceed.

To suggest that an heir who disclaims an interest in TS inheritance could be held personally liable is simply wrong. The best advice for anyone concerned about the subject is to consult a probate lawyer in the jurisdiction where the property is owned.
.

.


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## Nomad420

" If the administrator has the consent of the heirs or the probate court, he or she may simply abandon the TS and allow foreclosure to proceed."  I spoke with my friend last PM and basically he said the same thing which was my understanding from buying near foreclosed units in Utah.  He said his intention was to still attempt to sell the units for what ever the market allows.  If no sale occurs they will "abandon" them.


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