# Bribes do work in MX



## Wonka (Apr 21, 2008)

This is just a follow-up to my earlier post asking if a gratuity might help secure a better room at the Grand Mayan Riviera in Mexico.  Some answered No, other's weren't sure.

At the Grand Mayan check-in I paper-clipped a $20 bill to my RCI reservation and discreetly (well sort of discreetly ) and asked for a nice room.  The check-in clerk smiled, and walked away into another room.  She assigned us to Building 8, our reservation had been Building 13 and she also told us to call her if we needed a late check out giving us her phone extension.  That also worked.  We had a 12:00 checkout  (instead of 10:00) which the concierge would not provide.  Most poster's say the rooms are pre-assigned and cannot be changes (as does the RCI document).  It appears money talks, and $20 isn't very much.  Now, I'm wondering if $50 would have got us into Buildings 1-7 which are the closest to the pools.


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## LisaH (Apr 21, 2008)

Don't know anything about Grand Mayan Rivera, but did you get a unit with ocean view in building 8? Congratulations! I believe the $20 is well spent!


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## KarenLK (Apr 21, 2008)

I did similarly in Puerto Vallarta, and a ten spot seemed to work magic.At Paradise Village my one bedroom became a 2 bedroom with washer and dryer, and a marina view.


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## taffy19 (Apr 21, 2008)

It works because employees are not paid enough. This is very sad. It works in the USA too and certainly at the shows in Las Vegas. It is a bribe but what can you do? You want the view or the best seat, you pay.

PS. Another story here. We stayed at a hotel in Kona one time and this was a packaged deal. When we checked in, the fellow said he wanted to give us a very good room with a view. We were delighted and when we handed him a tip, he refused to take it. He said he did it out of the good of his heart as he said we were nice.   We had to be patient about something and we were patient.


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## CatLovers (Apr 21, 2008)

*It's all in the spin!*

I don't see it as a bribe - I call it a tip!  

And I've always been very happy to tip generously in order to get the perks I want.  Works for me every time - no matter which country I'm in.  The fact that so many people don't like to tip (either very much or at all) works in my favour since my tip stands out from the rest.


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## Wonka (Apr 21, 2008)

LisaH said:


> Don't know anything about Grand Mayan Rivera, but did you get a unit with ocean view in building 8? Congratulations! I believe the $20 is well spent!



Bldg 8 was a golf course view, it was the proximity to the pools that helped.  Bldg 13 is much further, but the shuttles get you there from wherever you are with a 10-15 minute wait.


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## janapur (Apr 21, 2008)

Bldg 8 is way better than 13, especially if you rented a car as it's right by the lot.


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## tonyg (Apr 21, 2008)

CatLovers said:


> I don't see it as a bribe - I call it a tip!
> 
> And I've always been very happy to tip generously in order to get the perks I want.  Works for me every time - no matter which country I'm in.  The fact that so many people don't like to tip (either very much or at all) works in my favour since my tip stands out from the rest.



NO- a tip is for services that have been rendered, a bribe is to get something extra or special.


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## CatLovers (Apr 22, 2008)

tonyg said:


> NO- a tip is for services that have been rendered, a bribe is to get something extra or special.



No difference - extra or special services rendered or to be rendered.  I don't care what you call it, I just know that it usually works!


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## kcirbodmot (Apr 22, 2008)

I believe it's Newton's Third Law of Motion which states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 

In this case, if the property was 100% booked for the week you were there, your reassignment to a unit perceived to be "better" meant that somebody else (who had been planning on staying in that "better" unit) ended up being disappointed by being placed in a "worse" unit.  

Just food for thought.


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## Wonka (Apr 22, 2008)

janapur said:


> Bldg 8 is way better than 13, especially if you rented a car as it's right by the lot.



That's correct.   Parking was right outside the unit and very convenient for our rental car.  We drove a lot.


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## Monica (Apr 22, 2008)

kcirbodmot said:


> I believe it's Newton's Third Law of Motion which states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
> 
> In this case, if the property was 100% booked for the week you were there, your reassignment to a unit perceived to be "better" meant that somebody else (who had been planning on staying in that "better" unit) ended up being disappointed by being placed in a "worse" unit.
> 
> Just food for thought.



So true.  I'd be p****d off, as an owner, to find out a bribe had been used for an exchanger to get a better room.

Now if it gets back to management that a female took a bribe to get a better room that had already been assigned on a date when the resort was 100% occupied, she's probably out of a job over that $20.  And that $20, I'm sure, was quite tempting as she took it.  But in the long run, she could be out of a job.  All because you wanted a better view and didn't want to walk further.

Hence, the reference to Newton's Law of Motion.

Just food for thought.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 22, 2008)

Monica said:


> Now if it gets back to management that a female took a bribe to get a better room that had already been assigned on a date when the resort was 100% occupied, she's probably out of a job over that $20.  And that $20, I'm sure, was quite tempting as she took it.  But in the long run, she could be out of a job.  All because you wanted a better view and didn't want to walk further.
> 
> Hence, the reference to Newton's Law of Motion.
> 
> Just food for thought.



And if she did so and lost her job, isn't that her choice?  Presumably she's an adult and can weight the benefits and consequences of her decisions.  It's not up to you, or Wonka or anyone else other than her to decide for her if what she did was wise.

OTOH - it's also possible that $20 that Wonka gave her could be a decent lunch for a week for her children.  Or it might buy some needed school books.  Or pay for some needed dental work or prescription medicine.

Actually, this strikes me as more of economics situation than a physics problem.  So before we jump to Newtonian Mechanics we should first consider the Pareto optimization principle, which recognizes that often resources can be reallocated so that no one is worse offand some individuals are better off. In this case, it's entirely possible there was flexibility in assigning rooms and that no one was bumped from a room they were promised.  If so, Wonka's actions simply made the world one bit more Pareto optimal, and he should be congratulated for improving the allocation of world resources in one small way.  Wonka's just thinking globally and acting locally. 

Just some more food for thought.


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## jschmidt (Apr 22, 2008)

Monica said:


> So true.  I'd be p****d off, as an owner, to find out a bribe had been used for an exchanger to get a better room.



Remember the Golden Rule:

"Those that have the GOLD make the rules!"


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## hibbert6 (Apr 23, 2008)

iconnections said:


> We stayed at a hotel in Kona one time and this was a packaged deal. When we checked in, the fellow said he wanted to give us a very good room with a view. We were delighted and when we handed him a tip, he refused to take it. He said he did it out of the good of his heart as he said we were nice.   We had to be patient about something and we were patient.



I just returned from a wonderful stay at an all-inclusive resort in PV.  I'd read somewhere about "getting more with honey" and so I tried that tactic. I tried to remember to tip -moderately -but did nothing extravagant other than to be patient and very polite.

As I said, our stay was wonderful.  Problems - and there were a few - were addressed in a very congenial manner.  For a moderate resort, the staff bent over backwards to help.  But on our last day, I was talking to a couple who were very upset; felt that they and their friends were treated poorly, etc.  All I can figure is that they hadn't learned to use "honey".  Treat people as you would be like to be treated, and they'll treat you well in return.

I made sure I pointed that out to my son!  

Dave


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## Wonka (Apr 23, 2008)

kcirbodmot said:


> I believe it's Newton's Third Law of Motion which states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
> 
> In this case, if the property was 100% booked for the week you were there, your reassignment to a unit perceived to be "better" meant that somebody else (who had been planning on staying in that "better" unit) ended up being disappointed by being placed in a "worse" unit.
> 
> Just food for thought.



Nope.  It was a very slow week at the resort.  Many units seemed to be empty (including the even better buildings).  I've always wondered why folks are assigned to lesser units, when other better units sit empty.

In addition, it seems to be the policy of many resorts to routinely or regularly assign exchangers to lesser units.

I'm sorry if I was assigned a closer unit at the expense of another.  But, that's life isn't it?  Been there, done that.


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## Mydogs2big (Apr 25, 2008)

I've always believed a "tip" was paid at the beginning of service, for the good service that you hoped to receive, and a "gratuity" was what you left afterwards in appreciation for the great service you did receive.

Somehow, us Americans got it all switched around and instead of giving a tip in hopes of getting a good table and excellent service, we just expect the best for nothing and get upset when others tip and get treated special.

We call it a "bribe"


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## nordicdiva (Apr 25, 2008)

Hey - in Mexico...call it what you will....bribe, tip, gatuity...whatever.

If it gets me a better room, I'm gonna do it.
Don't tell me that the Mexicans don't have this down to a science.  
It's us dumb Americans who feel guilty about it.  
Correct me if I'm wrong gringos.


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## Cathyb (Apr 25, 2008)

Has anyone given them the $$$ and nothing happened in return   except a thank you.  How would you handle that situation?


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## Wonka (Apr 25, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> Has anyone given them the $$$ and nothing happened in return   except a thank you.  How would you handle that situation?



Dunno!  I don't think you could ask for your "gratuity" back, that's why I started with a $20 bill.  For the most part, I think "money talks" just about everywhere, except in those situation where it's illegal (like US police, etc.).


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## easyrider (Apr 25, 2008)

Mydogs2big said:


> I've always believed a "tip" was paid at the beginning of service, for the good service that you hoped to receive, and a "gratuity" was what you left afterwards in appreciation for the great service you did receive.
> 
> Somehow, us Americans got it all switched around and instead of giving a tip in hopes of getting a good table and excellent service, we just expect the best for nothing and get upset when others tip and get treated special.
> 
> We call it a "bribe"



We agree with this post 100% especially in Mexico . We always introduce ourselves and give a tip to the door men, $20.00, at the resort as soon as we arrive. We always give a tip to the Maitre D when we arrive at a nice restaurant and usually suggest where we would like to be seated. We always leave a gratuity for the waiter. Often times we are treated to desert or a complimentary round of drinks.

These are not bribes. So if you get offended by people getting better treatment you should learn how to treat people better.


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## CatLovers (Apr 25, 2008)

easyrider said:


> So if you get offended by people getting better treatment you should learn how to treat people better.



Couldn't have said it better myself!  However, the unfortunate truth is that there are lots of people who, for whatever reason, don't tip.  S'all right though, makes it easier for me to get what I want and need!


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## cerralee (Apr 26, 2008)

This thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a gentleman who was selling condos on the beach a bit down from the Grand Mayan Riviera.  He suggested that if we did rent a car for a couple of days to keep a $10 or $20 dollar bill wrapped around your drivers licesence just in case you happened to get pulled over by the local police.  That it saves you a lot of headaches in the long run.  That they look for rental cars.


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## tonyg (Apr 26, 2008)

I discussed this subject with a local once and he was afraid that bribery would become the way things will be done in Cancun. I'm afraid tipping upfront will become essential for good service and in a few years you all will be complaining that you have to pay in advance for service. Upfront fees don't seem to work when you want someone to sell your timeshare.


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## easyrider (Apr 26, 2008)

cerralee said:


> This thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a gentleman who was selling condos on the beach a bit down from the Grand Mayan Riviera.  He suggested that if we did rent a car for a couple of days to keep a $10 or $20 dollar bill wrapped around your drivers licesence just in case you happened to get pulled over by the local police.  That it saves you a lot of headaches in the long run.  That they look for rental cars.



This would be a bribe in my book, not a tip.


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## PStreet1 (Apr 28, 2008)

We just got back from the Grand Mayan in Neuvo Vallarta.  We tried being super nice and the $50.00 bill was in clear sight early on.  I really believe the guy tried, but it didn't happen.  He went back 3 different times, but succeeded in getting us high up, which inproved the golf course view, but no ocean.  The resort appeared to be packed; later, we were told by more than one person that there were no empty rooms in the Grand Mayan.  We could have gotten an ocean view in the Mayan Palace, but we'd exchanged into the Grand Mayan and wanted to stay there.


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## Jaybee (Apr 28, 2008)

In Mexico, it's called "Mordida", and it's a way of life, if you expect to get 'er done.  
We cruised around Mexico almost 30 years ago, and we learned quickly.



nordicdiva said:


> Hey - in Mexico...call it what you will....bribe, tip, gratuity...whatever.
> 
> If it gets me a better room, I'm gonna do it.
> Don't tell me that the Mexicans don't have this down to a science.
> ...


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## Wonka (Apr 28, 2008)

Monica said:


> So true.  I'd be p****d off, as an owner, to find out a bribe had been used for an exchanger to get a better room.
> 
> Now if it gets back to management that a female took a bribe to get a better room that had already been assigned on a date when the resort was 100% occupied, she's probably out of a job over that $20.  And that $20, I'm sure, was quite tempting as she took it.  But in the long run, she could be out of a job.  All because you wanted a better view and didn't want to walk further.
> 
> ...



My guess is you wouldn't be "pxxxxx off", if "you" were given a better room than an owner in an exchange.  Should an "owner" get preferential treatment in room assignments?  Yes, if  the practice is consistent throughout the exchange companies.  But, it is not.


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## Wonka (Apr 28, 2008)

easyrider said:


> This would be a bribe in my book, not a tip.



Not in MX, or many other foreign countries.  As an auditor, I recall a situation where a new General Manger of one of our manufacturing facilities was required to pay a bribe to get his furniture unloaded and electricity turned on in a country I can't recall.  US Citizens think very differently.  We consider such payments bribes that should be unnecessary, but that isn't the way it works.


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## easyrider (Apr 29, 2008)

Wonka said:


> Not in MX, or many other foreign countries.  As an auditor, I recall a situation where a new General Manger of one of our manufacturing facilities was required to pay a bribe to get his furniture unloaded and electricity turned on in a country I can't recall.  US Citizens think very differently.  We consider such payments bribes that should be unnecessary, but that isn't the way it works.



Paying off a law enforcement official not to enforce the law is bribe and different than paying a tip for service from a working person. Just my opinion.


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## Fern Modena (Apr 29, 2008)

Ah, but its a cultural thing.  They don't consider it a bribe.  They consider it a convenience for you.  They are allowing you to pay a fine on the spot instead of writing a ticket.  If they write you a ticket, one of two things will probably happen...either they will take your driver's license, and you will have to go to the station to get it, or even worse, they will take the license plates of the car if it is foreign plated.  Again you will have to go to the station to get it.  You'll still have to pay the fine, and you'll lose part of a day's vacation.

So which would you want to do?  Sure, you can take the high moral ground, according to your beliefs, but it won't be convenient

Fern.  



easyrider said:


> Paying off a law enforcement official not to enforce the law is bribe and different than paying a tip for service from a working person. Just my opinion.


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## easyrider (Apr 29, 2008)

I smile and pay the cop. I have always thought that twenty bucks was chump change and will pay it with a grin but I feel this is a bribe because of the consequences of not paying. 
At the restaurant and resort if you dont tip you still get a room or dinner.


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## pammex (May 1, 2008)

ah bribe , mordida, we in Mexico are trying to get rid of this system.  be cautious of trying with a police officer, you may wind up in jail or same apllies to what is called the untouchables in airports, can be jail.

Best advise, honey and a bit of spanish go a long way.......I have never paid a mordida , bribe or whatever money to get a better room, just a nice smile, honey coated and a bit of spanish or a lot of spanish and respect.....has worked for me every time.  

Yes mordida exists here has for years and years and who knows maybe always will..but there are actually places in Mexico where you can go to jail for even offering, so proceed with caution.  

Mordidia or a bribe can be a two edged sword....can work to your advantage or disadvantage thus the vote is out on si or no to mordida

Should a member get a better choice of rooms over an exchanger, well absolutely isn't that one of the perks or being a member and also isn't that why they put membesr in better rooms and exchangers in others so you will buy...makes sense...

Tewnty bucks for mordidia in Mexico is a lot, can you imagine a Mexican who make less than ten bucks a day paying twenty bucks....only unknowing americans pay 20 for a mordidia, 50 pesos is more than enough if you choose that route, most times the fine is less than that if you pay before 3 days....I have even heard of hundreds and thousand s in mordidia....hurts us all, Mexicans included, paying that!!


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## nordicdiva (May 1, 2008)

pammex said:


> Should a member get a better choice of rooms over an exchanger, well absolutely isn't that one of the perks or being a member and also isn't that why they put membesr in better rooms and exchangers in others so you will buy...makes sense...


 Not sure if this does make sense.  yes, I agree that members should get better rooms but if buying is the incentive for a better room, wouldn't it make sense to rent nice rooms to exchangers?  

I would never try to bribe a mexican cop but why would it be illegal to offer tips to the service employees?  Are resort employees workers for the government?


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## John Cummings (May 1, 2008)

Wonka said:


> This is just a follow-up to my earlier post asking if a gratuity might help secure a better room at the Grand Mayan Riviera in Mexico.  Some answered No, other's weren't sure.
> 
> At the Grand Mayan check-in I paper-clipped a $20 bill to my RCI reservation and discreetly (well sort of discreetly ) and asked for a nice room.  The check-in clerk smiled, and walked away into another room.  She assigned us to Building 8, our reservation had been Building 13 and she also told us to call her if we needed a late check out giving us her phone extension.  That also worked.  We had a 12:00 checkout  (instead of 10:00) which the concierge would not provide.  Most poster's say the rooms are pre-assigned and cannot be changes (as does the RCI document).  It appears money talks, and $20 isn't very much.  Now, I'm wondering if $50 would have got us into Buildings 1-7 which are the closest to the pools.



We just got back from the Grand Mayan - Riviera Maya. We asked to be moved from building 11 to building 7 ( closest to the Mayan Palace pools ) which they gladly did without any bribe involved. We have always been able to get pretty well what we wanted and have never paid a bribe to anybody at hotels nor timeshares. We were in building 7 on the 3rd floor ( top floor ) in the same unit for both weeks we were there.


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## John Cummings (May 1, 2008)

pammex said:


> Best advise, honey and a bit of spanish go a long way.......I have never paid a mordida , bribe or whatever money to get a better room, just a nice smile, honey coated and a bit of spanish or a lot of spanish and respect.....has worked for me every time.



I agree 100%. I am fluent in Spanish and my wife is Mexican. We have always treated everybody with respect and kindness regardless of their position. We have always gotten exactly what room we wanted, or whatever else we requested.


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## John Cummings (May 1, 2008)

Wonka said:


> Not in MX, or many other foreign countries.  As an auditor, I recall a situation where a new General Manger of one of our manufacturing facilities was required to pay a bribe to get his furniture unloaded and electricity turned on in a country I can't recall.  US Citizens think very differently.  We consider such payments bribes that should be unnecessary, but that isn't the way it works.



I agree 100%. I was the manager of a computer company's sales and service office in Caracas Venezuela in 1978-1980. Paying bribes to government officials was part of doing business there. If you didn't. nothing would ever get done. Paying customs officials to release parts we brought in, or had shipped in, from the states was the major issue. To get around the US law on bribing foreign officials, I used a local courier who paid off the officials. We also had to pay a $1,000 bribe per visa for our resident work visas. Again we did it through an attorney so it showed up as attorney's fees. In Mexico and many other countries, often a large percentage of legal fees for attorneys actually goes to pay off government officials.

One time I had to leave Venezuela on an emergency trip back to Florida. You had to have a tax clearance from the Federal government showing you owed no income tax or other taxes in order to leave the country. This normally took several days and a small bribe. With a larger bribe, I received my clearance in 15 minutes and it was a multiple clearance valid for a year which was not usual.

When I lived in Mexico, we had to get a Mexican Passport for my wife and our daughter so we could come back to the states. Mexicans get their original passports from their state governments rather than the federal government. The guy at the passport office told us it would take at least 6 months to a year if ever. I asked if we could speed it up. To make a long story short, I paid him a bribe ( la mordida ) and we had the passport in 1 hour.

I am telling about these experiences because the majority of Americans do not realize the way that the rest of the world works.


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## laura1957 (May 1, 2008)

John Cummings said:


> We just got back from the Grand Mayan - Riviera Maya. We asked to be moved from building 11 to building 7 ( closest to the Mayan Palace pools ) which they gladly did without any bribe involved. We have always been able to get pretty well what we wanted and have never paid a bribe to anybody at hotels nor timeshares. We were in building 7 on the 3rd floor ( top floor ) in the same unit for both weeks we were there.




When we went to the Moon Palace last year, they gave us our room number, we looked at the map and immediately asked if they could put us in a different room.  They asked where we would like to be and we gave them a couple of our choices - they gave us our first pick.  That night at the bar a very loud obnoxious American guy was telling a group of us how he got a better room because he "bribed" the front desk ($20.00) and that's how you have to treat "these people".  Our room was better than his - and all we had to do was ask nicely. We also got much better bar service than he did - even though he kept waving his money in front of the bartenders face!!   They really appreciated us treating them as equals much more than they appreciated his money.


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## John Cummings (May 1, 2008)

laura1957 said:


> They really appreciated us treating them as equals much more than they appreciated his money.



You are absolutely right. The Mexican people are very hospitable and kind. They will usually try to please you if you treat them the same way.


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## Wonka (May 1, 2008)

John Cummings said:


> We just got back from the Grand Mayan - Riviera Maya. We asked to be moved from building 11 to building 7 ( closest to the Mayan Palace pools ) which they gladly did without any bribe involved. We have always been able to get pretty well what we wanted and have never paid a bribe to anybody at hotels nor timeshares. We were in building 7 on the 3rd floor ( top floor ) in the same unit for both weeks we were there.



That's good to hear.  I would guess that both "being nice" and a "nice bribe" have varying results.  I've asked "nicely" at many resorts only to be told they don't change rooms.  Others have also posted this result at the Grand Mayan.  So, it might be simply a matter of which reservation agent you get, whether they're having a good day or not, or the positioning of the stars on that particular day.  I wonder if an owner that didn't ask would be angry if someone who simply asked got a better location/room.  Maybe it's just the luck of the draw, huh?  I always try to be "nice" to others, and honestly agree that the MX resort hotel staff's are tops and try their best to please customers.


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## pammex (May 2, 2008)

Actually I think they give the less than best rooms to the exchangers so they can show you what members or buyers get and how much better they are...sales tactics...

Oh no my response to illegal was in reference to police or what is now called the "untouchables" airport security and police.  Sorry for the confusion.  

Some states though do have a NO MORDIDA RULE in effect everywhere and if found to do so it does fall into a jail sentence, not a resort I am sure.

Yes, Mordida is alive and well in Mexico and well many other places in states as well you just do not call it mordida....but in Mexico we are trying to get rid of this mordida.....

Most Mexican resorts, not all are very receptive if you just use kindness and respect and they do try to please as much as they can.  Personally I won't pay for a better room, if they can do it they will if not then someone else must already have rights to that room.  Plus who knows at reception , maybe your original room was better than the one you paid the mordida for...just something to think about...


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## rocky (May 3, 2008)

Wonka said:


> Monica said:
> 
> 
> > Now if it gets back to management that a female took a bribe to get a better room that had already been assigned on a date when the resort was 100% occupied, she's probably out of a job over that $20.  And that $20, I'm sure, was quite tempting as she took it.  But in the long run, she could be out of a job.  All because you wanted a better view and didn't want to walk further.
> ...


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