# Orange Lake - Florida ?



## fryguy (Dec 7, 2009)

I currently live in Colorado.  I went to the Orange Lake resort in Orlando.  I toured their new development River Island, which was nice.  I was thinking to buying something at Orange Lake on the resale market.  Maybe from the older development side.  How is the trading value with Orange Lake for deeded weeks?  The resort has a points system also, and I think their trying to push old owners in the direction.  I'd hate to pay the conversion fee.

Should I buy a points based timeshare and have enough points to do a week?  I looked at some of the Wyndham resorts online and they seem very nice.

I was told that points can convert into weeks, but weeks can convert into points.  Unless you pay to convert them through the resort.  Seems like this is a strong arm tactic by RCI and the resort to extract more money.

I don't plan on going to Orange Lake ever year, but would like to have great trade value to go other places and nice resorts (example: wyndham).


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## aliikai2 (Dec 7, 2009)

*OK,*

So why the would you want to buy an OL week? Most Orlando weeks are medium to poor traders, add that to their higher than average annual fees and property taxes they become a very poor choice as a trader.

If you are interested in the Wyndham resorts, then since they are a points system, by all means get into either the Worldmark Wyndham or the regular Wyndham Vacation points program.

In the western US the Worldmark has many resorts while in the East Wyndham has lots and lots of resorts.

jmho,

Greg


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## Bill4728 (Dec 7, 2009)

Buying Wyndham ( not OLCC) and using their point system, you could trade into Orange lake and other great Orlando resorts. PLUS use your wyndham pts to make reservations at almost all of the >50 wyndham resorts. 

IMHO, This would be better than buying OLCC and then trying to trade it to go to the Wyndham resorts. 

Please be aware that resales at many Wyndham resorts come with Wyndham points but  this isn't true for all Wyndham resales.  If you want wyndham pts, you must make sure that the wyndham week you're looking to buy is in Wyndham pts.  At many of the older wyndham resorts, the weeks were not sold as pts and had to be converted. BUT at most newer Wyndham resorts, all weeks were sold in points. 

Good Luck

PS living in the western US, you might find that Worldmark (WM) not Wyndham vacations may be a better fit for you since most of the WM resorts are in the Western US.


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 7, 2009)

OLCC has 1 in 4 rule.  So if you want to stay there every year, you can not use Wyndham point.  That said.  There are a lot of good resorts around Orlando, depends on why you choice OLCC, it may or may not need to be owner there.

Jya-Ning


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## fryguy (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm not sure what the 1 in 4 rule is.  Is their resorts that have a fixed week, but also get points to use at other resorts?

I liked my visit to Orange Lake, but wouldn't want to go that same resort every year.  The Wyndham resorts seemed to be more upscale than some of the other chains.  I'd like to stay at 5 star places.

From a trading stand point. Which is a better resort area, and brand?  I'm not crazy about the cold weather, so if I had a resort in Colorado probably wouldn't spend much time their.

Seems like the points offer a better flexibility, than weeks.  I'm just worried about the points being a scam in a way.  If the resorts or RCI increase the points needed to stay somewhere, your forced to buy more.  Can't do that with fixed or floating weeks.

My opinion they need a class action lawsuit to force the exchanges to have weeks ownership, equate to a points amount depending where you looking to go and not be forced to convert.


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## Jya-Ning (Dec 7, 2009)

1 in 4 means that if you are not an owner, and you exchange into their resort using RCI, than in the next 4 years, you can not exchange to their resort.

Based on your description, you can look at the hotel chains.  OLCC is one.  Wyndham is the other, HGVC (hilton), Starwood, Marriott are all in the mix.  You may want to just stay around and try them out first so you get a feeling what each one is.  Try th eolder resorts, the newer one can easily packaged so you will be very hard to tell the difference.

OLCC, HGVC and Wyndham has their own point system, it has nothing to do with RCI.

Jya-Ning


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## StopTheScams (Dec 12, 2009)

*Do NOT buy with OLCC*

I am an owner with OLCC and I regret the day I walked into that place. Long story short we were scammed. Don't buy with them! Everything they tell you is a lie. You don’t have to take my word for it, just do some research.


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## Bill4728 (Dec 14, 2009)

fryguy said:


> From a trading stand point. Which is a better resort area, and brand?  I'm not crazy about the cold weather, so if I had a resort in Colorado probably wouldn't spend much time their.


There are several brands which in most peoples opinion are the top TS systems, Hilton, Hyatt, Westin (starwood) & Marriott. All but Marriott have a internal trading system which you use points. 



> Seems like the points offer a better flexibility, than weeks.  I'm just worried about the points being a scam in a way.  If the resorts or RCI increase the points needed to stay somewhere, your forced to buy more.  Can't do that with fixed or floating weeks.


Points for a stay at a resorts almost never change once the resorts start sales. So if you buy a Hilton 2 bd platinum week that comes with 7000 points, that will never change. Those  7000 pts will always get you a 2 bd week at that resort.  BUT the system can and sometimes does make the points needed to stay at their newer resorts more than their older resorts. (as an example the three Hilton TSs at Hilton Hawaii Village, the two older resorts have a different point requirement than the newest resort tower)

Hope this helps


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## Mel (Dec 21, 2009)

StopTheScams said:


> I am an owner with OLCC and I regret the day I walked into that place. Long story short we were scammed. Don't buy with them! Everything they tell you is a lie. You don’t have to take my word for it, just do some research.


Research says that most OLCC owners are actually happy with their purchase.  There are quite a few of us here on TUG.  Since the OP asked about purchasing an older unit from one of the other sections of the resort, it sounds like he is considering a resale, which may in fact be a good option for him.  It all depends on how frequently he is likely to return to Orange Lake.

Yes, the maintenance fees in Orlando are higher than many other areas (OLCC is about $700 for a 2BR, including taxes), so it's not the best option from a trading standpoint, but if you intend to return every other year, you avoid the exchange fees those years - may be a better option than purchasing a resort you will never use, as you would always be paying exchange fees then.  Further, most of the big chains have higher than average maintenance fees.

StopTheScams - what exactly were you told by the OLCC sales staff that was a scam?  On each of the presentations I have attended, many things have been implied, but I can't think of any outright lies that have been told - they may rely on people making false assumptions, but that is a far cry from lies.  I suspect you would be unhappy with almost any timeshare.


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## Jimster (Dec 25, 2009)

*I agree*

I agree with Mel.  I own at OLCC and other places.  OLCC is far better than my other resorts and I believe I was fairly treated.


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## abak88 (Dec 26, 2009)

Mel said:


> StopTheScams - what exactly were you told by the OLCC sales staff that was a scam?  On each of the presentations I have attended, many things have been implied, but I can't think of any outright lies that have been told - they may rely on people making false assumptions, but that is a far cry from lies.  I suspect you would be unhappy with almost any timeshare.



I am an owner at South Beach.  We went to the update last year to find out more about how the sale to Orange Lakes would impact us.  I am very familiar with how to use my timeshare, but if I had been less educated, I am sure I would have been bamboozled by the representative.   

She informed us our unit was now worth "double" the points that it was before!  Great news!   She failed to mention that it takes double the points to reserve anything in the Holiday Inn Club.    She also tried to convince us that it was such a benefit that we would no longer have to pay an exchange fee to get into our own resort like we did under RCI.  (Um, no again...if we reserved our unit during the correct timeframe, we paid no exchange fee).  She refused to acknowledge that we paid no exchange fee under RCI, and said that if we weren't paying an exchange fee, that it must be a mistake on RCI's part.     She was very excited to tell us that we no longer had to pay RCI dues, which is now included as being a member of Holiday Inn Club.  She failed to mention that we will now be required to pay what we paid to RCI and more to the Orange Lakes.

Now maybe this type of misleading information is par for the course at other timeshares, but it hasn't been the case in the past with South Beach.  I don't think South Beach owners have improved their situations, quite honestly.

As far as the management of the resort, we were completely disappointed.  The check-in person was quite rude when we refused the "update."  (It was later that we decided to go).  The rules at poolside were completely disregarded and unenforced.    Main amenities were shut down at 7 p.m. (during Beach Season), and management seemed to think it was no big deal.  The front-line workers were sympathetic, but could do nothing.  As owners at this resort, we were used to a better run resort than this.  I sure do hope it gets better with time.


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## Jimster (Dec 26, 2009)

*exchange fee*

Run that by me again.  You used to pay an exchange fee to go to your own resort- for your own week?   Maybe I don't understand.  

I will say that my biggest complaint about Orange Lake is that they sometimes have rude employees but I always attribute that to the fact they are just so big.


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## abak88 (Dec 26, 2009)

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  I never paid an exchange fee through RCI. 

The salesperson was selling trying to tell me that it was a great benefit of being with Holiday Inn that I would no longer have to pay an exchange fee when I book with South Beach during the season I own.  I tried to tell her that I never did pay an exchange fee to book into South Beach.  She argued with me, and told me that either I was mistaken, or it was a mistake by RCI.

Overall, I found the resort much more poorly run than in the past.  I'm hoping it is simply because of the changeover, and things will improve over time.  When Burroughs and Chapin owned the resort, I always found the management friendly and attentive to the owner's needs.  This wasn't the case this time, and I was very disappointed.  In talking with other owners, I wasn't the only one.


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## StopTheScams (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi sorry I have not been on the site for a while. First we were kept at the resort for 5 hours! We had no knowledge about timeshares and the salesman knew that. He told us that the timeshare would increase in value because it is right next to Disney, he told us that all the fees are tax deductible, that we would be able to get a loan for a lower interest rate, that we would be able to go away a lot because we had 100,000 points, now they say that these points are not enough and we should purchase more points! There is so much more and just this little bit that I have posted is too much. I have spoken to other owners that are very unhappy and have spoken to a lawyer. They should not get away with what they do to people.  If anyone else has been put through this please email me at slnyc11@yahoo.com


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## Mel (Jan 16, 2010)

StopTheScams said:


> Hi sorry I have not been on the site for a while. First we were kept at the resort for 5 hours! We had no knowledge about timeshares and the salesman knew that. He told us that the timeshare would increase in value because it is right next to Disney, he told us that all the fees are tax deductible, that we would be able to get a loan for a lower interest rate, that we would be able to go away a lot because we had 100,000 points, now they say that these points are not enough and we should purchase more points! There is so much more and just this little bit that I have posted is too much. I have spoken to other owners that are very unhappy and have spoken to a lawyer. They should not get away with what they do to people.  If anyone else has been put through this please email me at slnyc11@yahoo.com


Did they actually say these things, or imply them?  I have seen many of these same things implied at almost every timeshare presentation I have attended.  I have not heard about tax deductions - other than the property taxes, which ARE deductible, but only if you itemize, and mortgage interest if you use their financing.  If you rent your usage, your fees would be deductible as an expense.  As for a loan at a better rate - you probably could get one, but you have to do the work to get it.  Often it is done through a home equity loan (interest might be deductible), or a personal loan (interest is NOT deductible).

100,000 points may be enough for your needs... but more points does allow for more vacations.  What you have is equivalent to 50,000 RCI points, which could translate into 5-9 weeks of vacation, if you book 45 day out, so what they told you is not really a lie.  WHy do they tell you you need more - because you don't want to wait until 45 days out to book your vacations.  You need (or they are trying to convince you you need) more points to use your membership the way you want.

I wish those who are seeking legal help luck, but don't expect they will get anywhere.  What matters is what is included in the writen contract, and they've had plenty of time to refine those over the years.   Your complaints are the same as heard from unhappy owners at almost every timeshare - they didn't understand what they were buying, and didn't go over the contract with a fine-toothed comb before the recision period ended.  Unfortunately it can be an expensive mistake.


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## StopTheScams (Jan 16, 2010)

they didn't imply it they actually said it. I have spoken to others who were told the sam things I was told.


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## StopTheScams (Feb 15, 2010)

*Class action lawsuit*

I have been in touch with a large number of people who were lied to and misled at the orange lake presentation. We are filing a class action lawsuit against them . If anyone on here is interested in joining us please email me at slnyc11@yahoo.com


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## Mel (Feb 19, 2010)

Why a class action lawsuit?

Everybody knows the only people who win in such a lawsuit are the lawyers!  Just look at how RCI settled.

A small percentage of people who attend these sales presentations don't do any homework ahead of time, and are then upset that they were sold something they don't understand.  Can anyone show me any other situations where someone would spend $20-$30,000 without knowing what they are buying?  It's an impulse buy, and if the homework is not done before attending the presentation, you have time to do it after you sign.  That's why they have a cooling-off period.  

Did you do any research following your purchase, during your recission period?   Or did you just assume that the "too good to be true" offer really was true?  It seems to me that n increasing portion of our society is willing to make the rest of us pay for their mistakes, and take little responsibility for their own actions.   If you purchased, and had difficulty cancelling your contract within the recision period (or were not told of the recision period) I can understand, but 2-3 days should be enough to verify or refute any "lies" you were told at the presentation, particularly if $20,000 was riding on your research.  If you don't want to dedicate the time to do the research, don't purchase - wait until you can do the research, and understand you might not get such a great deal, or maybe the deal will still be there 6 months down the road.

As a tax preparer, I constantly have to deal with clients who are upset over things others have told them - they can deduct their work uniform, tools, and union dues (but they don't itemize, or don't spend more than 2% of their wages on these things), they can deduct the value of the car they donated (again, they don't itemize), or the best one, they're going to get a big refund this year because of the house they purchased in December because their realtor told them so (they'll get the new homebuyer's credit this year, but they still won't itemize, because they didn't pay much in mortgage interest or property taxes).   Then there's the ones that are upset because they have to pay taxes on the MSRP value of the car they won (because the MSRP is much higher than what they would have willingly paid for the car, they're paying almost as much in taxes as they would have for the car, and to make matters worse, they're losing tax deduction or credits because their "income" rose too high).

I understand the timeshare developers take advantage of people, but people need to to learn to take responsibility for their own decisions - and to understand that the bottom line for all salesmen is to make a sale.  Lining the pockets of lawyers will not make the situation any better.

Regarding South Beach, I suspect the sales staff there have no clue how the original memberships worked.  They assume that you had to go through RCI to reserve anything other that what you own, and thus you would pay a fee.  The original developer(or perhaps the HOA) obviously sold the remaining inventory to Holiday Inn, and signed a management contract with them.  While there may be some growing pains, I would expect things to settle once everyone is more familiar with each other.   Amenities closing may be an issue of underfunding, which could be resolved with next year's budget.  Rules being ignored, while a serious issue, has unfortunately been an issue at many resorts we've visited.  Again, it may be an issue of having enough staff to enforce the rules, as well as an issue of whether the staff believes the rules are reasonable.


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