# Starwood mandatory vs non mandatory



## billymach4 (Aug 1, 2007)

Can someone please explain what a mandatory resort vs a non mandatory resort?


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## TUG Talker (Aug 2, 2007)

billymach4 said:


> Can someone please explain what a mandatory resort vs a non mandatory resort?



I'm a newbie here, but I'll take a shot...

Read this.

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm

To summarize...see the list below from the referenced document.  The "Mandatory" resorts allow both original purchasers from the Starwood developers as well as purchasers from existing owners (i.e., resale purchasers) to join the Starwood SVN program, which allows them to trade internally with other Starwood owners.  They get "staroption" points that allow them to trade some or all of their week at their home resort for time at other Starwood resorts.   

Voluntary resorts are more limited, in that people who purchase them on the resale market can *not* join the SVN program, and therefore can't trade in the internal Starwood SVN program.  (There are  exceptions to this general rule in the doc I pointed you at above.)   Owners who purchase non-mandatory resorts can join the SVN program, but only if they purchase directly from Starwood.  

Owners of resale non-mandatory resorts can trade via Interval International (II), but there are some things that Starwood does w/II trading that is different (and potentially more limiting) than normal II trading...there are other posts on that here, and I'll leave that to others to discuss.  

Resorts that are “SVN mandatory”
SVN membership mandatory for both new and resale buyers:

Harborside Resort 
Vistana Villages 
Westin St. John 
Westin Ka'anapali 
Westin Kierland Villas 

Resorts that are “SVN non-mandatory”
SVN membership voluntary for developer buyers; not available to resale buyers

Vistana Resort 
Broadway Plantation 
Desert Oasis 
Lakeside Terrace 
PGA Vacation Resort 
Mountain Vista 
Westin Mission Hills


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## pointsjunkie (Aug 2, 2007)

sure, can't sleep so i would love to explain the difference.  the svn system has many resorts, that if you are in the svn you can trade into.
when you purchase (for example) sheraton vistana villages(key west or bella sections), this is a mandatory resort so we get to trade to all the other resorts, if i go to sell my sheraton vistana villages then the new owners will also be able to trade in the SVN, it comes with the deed. so the resale value is better than a non-mandatory resort.

if you purchased from sheraton visatana villages in the ameilia section which is a non-mandatory resort as an owner that purchased from the developer you too would have access to the SVN and would be able to trade with all the starwood resorts, but if you went to sell it then the new owners would only be able to go to their resort and no other in the SVN. they would also be able to trade with inerval international if they joined it. this resale would sell on the resale market at a lower price than the above.

i hope i was able to explain it so you understand it. i hope i get tired soon so i can sleep. good night.


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## davidahn (Feb 20, 2008)

*Confirmed?*

I just bought a Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Villas (non-North) from Westin while in Maui yesterday. These were re-released because some other members traded them for WKOV-N's to consolidate weeks. The salesperson told me that you could NOT participate in StarPoints or StarOptions with resale weeks (converting to points for use at Starwood hotels worldwide). So with mandatory resorts such as the WKOV, are you guys saying you CAN use StarOptions? But not StarPoints?

David


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## nodge (Feb 20, 2008)

davidahn said:


> I just bought a Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Villas (non-North) from Westin while in Maui yesterday. These were re-released because some other members traded them for WKOV-N's to consolidate weeks. The salesperson told me that you could NOT participate in StarPoints or StarOptions with resale weeks (converting to points for use at Starwood hotels worldwide). So with mandatory resorts such as the WKOV, are you guys saying you CAN use StarOptions? But not StarPoints?
> 
> David



Hi David!

Welcome to TUG.  This Starwood Forum has lots of helpful stuff such as this FAQ section and this intro to SVN.   Both are must reads BEFORE you buy any SVN property. 

Regarding your recent WKORV developer purchase, let me be the first to say "RESCIND!"   You can probably buy that exact same WKORV property resale and use its StarOptions (but not its StarPoints) for much, much less.  For example, www.redweek.com currently has two annual WKORV Ocean front deluxe units listed for $60K & 62K (the $62K listing says "owner is open to offers").  Out or curiosity, how much did the developer charge you for your annual WKORV Ocean front Deluxe villa?

Good Luck,
-nodge


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## Bill4728 (Feb 20, 2008)

davidahn said:


> I just bought a Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Villas (non-North) from Westin while in Maui yesterday.
> 
> The salesperson told me that you could NOT participate in StarPoints or StarOptions with resale weeks (converting to points for use at Starwood hotels worldwide).
> 
> So with mandatory resorts such as the WKOV, are you guys saying you CAN use StarOptions? But not StarPoints?


The salemen told you a lie.  At WKOV, ( a mandatory resort) you do get staroptions when you buy resale.

You do not get hotel reward points (starpoints).  

So you can save about $20,000 or more by buying resale and the only thing you'll not get is the hotel reward points. 

Rescind!!

PS I see you're thinking about buying more Starwood. In that case you positively want to rescind.  That because if you buy resale first then buy from Starwood, Starwood will do something called "Retro/requalify" your resale purchase. So by buying one TS resale and a second ( must be after buying resale) from Starwood, you'll get both ( YES, I said both) into a full SVN ownership with both Staroptions and Starpoints!!


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 20, 2008)

davidahn said:


> I just bought a Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Villas (non-North) from Westin while in Maui yesterday. These were re-released because some other members traded them for WKOV-N's to consolidate weeks. The salesperson told me that you could NOT participate in StarPoints or StarOptions with resale weeks (converting to points for use at Starwood hotels worldwide). So with mandatory resorts such as the WKOV, are you guys saying you CAN use StarOptions? But not StarPoints?
> 
> David



Hi David - Welcome to TUG
Be careful with information (or should I say misinfo) that come from SVO salespeople.

Since WKORV (both N and S) are Mandatory resorts - you can use SVN for the purposes of exchanging into other SVN resorts (using StarOptions - SOs)whether bought from SVO or resale.  What you lose upon buying resale is the ability to convert SOs into StarPoints (SPs)- since SVO only gives you 80K SPs for your conversion of 148.1K SOs - this is not worth buying from SVO for the premium you pay.

What type of unit did you buy at WKORV, and if you are willing to share - what are they asking?  We ask this because not many people come to TUG that have bought WKORV inventory (if at all) that has been given back to SVO.

Resale prices for IV units are in the low $20Ks, OV units in the high $20Ks, and OF units ~$50K.  Even if they give you great SP incentives to buy - still unlikley worth the extra premium.

Good for you in finding TUG in time - many do not.


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## DeniseM (Feb 20, 2008)

Welcome to the TUG Starwood Board! 

Ditto - you were lied to!    You can buy an ocean view unit resale for less than $30K at the WKORV.  *Rescind!  * 

For lots of info. about how Starwood works, check out the stickies at the top of the board.


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## LisaRex (Feb 20, 2008)

From David's profile, he bought OF deluxe and is looking for 3 more resale. 

David, here are some things I think might be of interest to you:

1) You will, indeed, be able to use StarOptions to trade into other SVN properties if you buy resale  The salesman lied. 

2) However, unless they are requalified, you will not be able to COMBINE StarOptions from multiple units bought on the resale market. 

3) You cannot use any resales towards achieving elite status if that's important to you.  Personally, I don't think it's worth buying from the developer to get elite status, but there are a few perks that might interest you, such as the ability to hold a reservation at one location and be wait listed at another.  Platinum for Life for 5* owners is a great perk if you stay in hotels A LOT.  

4) If you intend to buy more than one property at Starwood, it doesn't make sense to buy from the developer FIRST.  If you buy resale first, you can then approach the developer AFTER that and tell him that if he'll requalify your resale unit, you'll buy from him. If you buy from the developer first and the resale market second, you'll end up with only one qualified unit.  If you flip flop that, you'll end up with two.   

5) Keep in mind that YOUR VIEW DOESN'T TRAVEL. Unless you stay at WKORV (and book during the owner's priority period), what view you bought is meaningless.  In other words, if you trade to Cancun, you won't be ocean front.  That's why many owners of these great OF units never convert them to StarOptions at all, but choose to rent them out or direct exchange them instead, which is admittedly a pain.  So if you intend to convert to StarOptions a lot, you might reconsider the OF deluxe unit.

6) A 2 bdrm lockout OF deluxe owner pays a hefty price tag for that great villa.  They also pay significantly more Maintenance Fees because of the increased square footage.  However, you are not given additional StarOptions for all that extra $$.  For trading purposes, your OF deluxe villa is worth exactly the same amount of StarOptions as a person who bought an Island View 2 bdrm unit.  Once again, it may only make sense to pay the extra $$ if you intend to use your unit at WKORV more often than not. 

7) If you ever want to trade in II, your OF deluxe unit will not be deposited.  You might get an island view deposited instead, but since Starwood controls what is deposited, you won't ever be able to trade that great unit within II. 

8) If you intend to rent out the units, know that there is a surplus of inventory available on Redweek, VRBO, SellMytimeshareNow, etc.  I would never buy a unit with the intention of making money.  

9) Because there are so few OF deluxe units at WKORV (12?), and all are floating, you have a very limited inventory of units available.  You might have been shown the 6th floor corner unit.  If you aren't a planner, and don't intend on calling to book your unit at exactly 12 months out, you may be very disappointed.  It's conceivable that all the OF deluxe units will be accounted for on the week you want.  It's also conceivable that you'll be on the 2nd floor with trees impeding your view.  

10) Be careful of claims about being able to trade into any SVN property with your StarOptions.  Very few St. John owners ever surrender their units to SVN at all because SVO valued their units at a ridiculously low amount of StarOptions.   So if you're assuming you'll get into St. John in February or Westin Kierland during Spring Break, be advised that a lot of people have reported not being able to get the trade they want, or only being able to get a studio vs. a 1 or 2 bdrm unit. 

11) The SPG conversion rate is laughable.  While Starwood recently revamped their SPG table which increased the number of StarPoints needed to book a hotel night, SVO did not increase the number of StarPoints owners who converted their villas would receive.  So a few years ago, owners were sold on the idea that they could stay in the finest Starwood hotel in the world for a week with the number of StarPoints they'd receive. A short 3 years later, those same 80k StarPoints will get you a week in a Category 4 hotel, 5-6 nights in a Category 5 hotel (e.g. Westin Maui), 4-5 nights in a Category 6 hotel, and (drum roll, please) TWO nights in a Category 7 hotel. 

You want to convert your week in a 2 bdrm OF deluxe villa that you paid $100k+ $2200/year in MFs into enough points to stay in a regular hotel room without a view?  Yeah, me neither.  

13) Note that there are oceanfront CENTER units at WKORV that have an incredible large lanai that does not come with the increased MFs of a deluxe unit.  It's worth considering.

14) If you were planning on trading at Aruba please note that it appears that Starwood has scrapped those plans.  The Cancun development has also been delayed. The only new developments are domestic and most are in the same areas they already cover (e.g. Orlando, Colorado). 

15) On one of the websites there is a 2 bdrm lockout OF deluxe unit listed for $67k.  And another one will come along any day now.   Do not get suckered into believing that yours is one of a kind.  It isn't.

Good luck to you.  Hope this helps.


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## wfleish (Feb 24, 2008)

I am another recent buyer of WKORV-N from Westin.  I bought the cheapest available(IV, EOY for $36K) I have a few days to rescind, and from reading things here, I know that will be the reccomendation.  

Still, I am leaning the other way.  I know that I could get better value, but I do like the 125K starpoints that were thrown in, which I could use for free nights at a trip I am already planning for Europe this summer.  

Am I crazy?


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## SDKath (Feb 24, 2008)

wfleish said:


> I am another recent buyer of WKORV-N from Westin.  I bought the cheapest available(IV, EOY for $36K) I have a few days to rescind, and from reading things here, I know that will be the reccomendation.
> 
> Still, I am leaning the other way.  I know that I could get better value, but I do like the 125K starpoints that were thrown in, which I could use for free nights at a trip I am already planning for Europe this summer.
> 
> Am I crazy?



YUP!  RESCIND and pay for your Europe hotel out of the $1000s of dollars you saved by buying resale!  Or find a less expensive rental in Europe.  125,000 SP is worth about $2000.  You paid about $20,000 more than you can get on resale for that unit.

Whatever you do, DON'T buy from the developer directly because you are paying 2-3X the resale rate (and with Maui, you will get Staroptions on resale too).  Take a peek at eBay for a few days and see what these units are going for.  Or even Redweek.  Although asking prices on resale sites are usually higher than what most people pay, they are STILL way lower than buying directly from Starwood.  (Look at auction 320212343282 right now -- EY IV for less than what you paid EOY).

RESCIND!  Now!  Then take time to learn the ins and outs and buy resale.  If you are ok with an island view, heck buy a $5000 Sheraton Desert Oasis on resale and just trade into Hawaii.  You might get IV or you may actually be upgraded to OV for very little money and way less yearly maintenance fees!

FYI an OF DELUX goes for about $60,000 on resale.  Week 52 OF Delux went for $70,000 last month.  That is the HIGHEST demand week in Maui so not a bad price considering Starwood is asking for $110k.

Katherine


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 24, 2008)

wfleish said:


> I am another recent buyer of WKORV-N from Westin.  I bought the cheapest available(IV, EOY for $36K) I have a few days to rescind, and from reading things here, I know that will be the reccomendation.
> 
> Still, I am leaning the other way.  I know that I could get better value, but I do like the 125K starpoints that were thrown in, which I could use for free nights at a trip I am already planning for Europe this summer.
> 
> Am I crazy?



you already know the answer - ask yourself if ~$20K is worth 125K SPs since your EOY is worth ~$16K.

this is a no brainer.
Rescind - Research - Resale


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 24, 2008)

SDKath said:


> 125,000 SP is worth about $2000.



Hi Kath - you are becoming quite the expert.

How do you arrive at this amount?


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## wfleish (Feb 24, 2008)

SDKath said:


> YUP!  RESCIND and pay for your Europe hotel out of the $1000s of dollars you saved by buying resale!  Or find a less expensive rental in Europe.  125,000 SP is worth about $2000.  You paid about $20,000 more than you can get on resale for that unit.
> 
> Whatever you do, DON'T buy from the developer directly because you are paying 2-3X the resale rate (and with Maui, you will get Staroptions on resale too).  Take a peek at eBay for a few days and see what these units are going for.  Or even Redweek.  Although asking prices on resale sites are usually higher than what most people pay, they are STILL way lower than buying directly from Starwood.  (Look at auction 320212343282 right now -- EY IV for less than what you paid EOY).
> 
> ...



Thanks.  I am beginning to see your point.  I like your idea of buying into Scottsdale, and trading into Hawaii.  But if the Desert Oasis is a non-Mandatory resort, does that not mean I could not trade except through II?


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## DeniseM (Feb 24, 2008)

wfleish said:


> Thanks.  I am beginning to see your point.  I like your idea of buying into Scottsdale, and trading into Hawaii.  But if the Desert Oasis is a non-Mandatory resort, does that not mean I could not trade except through II?



That is correct.  You may also want to consider a Staroption Mandatory resort that will allow you to do Starwood exchanges.  If Maui is your primary goal, you can buy an EY ocean view at the WKORV for less than $30K resale.  Converting to Starpoints shouldn't even come into the equation, with the recent Starpoint devaluation, it's an even worse value than before.

Take your time and also consider other Hawaiian resorts - there are some great deals out there and with the economy the way it is, I think we will see some resale bargains in 2008 - don't be in a rush.


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## tonyh (Feb 24, 2008)

wfleish said:


> I am another recent buyer of WKORV-N from Westin.  I bought the cheapest available(IV, EOY for $36K) I have a few days to rescind, and from reading things here, I know that will be the reccomendation.
> 
> Still, I am leaning the other way.  I know that I could get better value, but I do like the 125K starpoints that were thrown in, which I could use for free nights at a trip I am already planning for Europe this summer.
> 
> Am I crazy?



$36k for an IV EOY unit? I was quoted $31.9k about a month ago with 150,000 Starpoints. Did they raise the price again? It makes no sense to buy at this price unless you're trying to requal another resale purchase. In terms of requal, Starwood is apparently trying to enforce the "rule" that any Hawaii or Caribbean purchase needs to exceed $40k in order to requal another resale unit. This "rule" was initiated late last year but was widely ignored.


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## koruman (Feb 24, 2008)

wfleish said:


> I am another recent buyer of WKORV-N from Westin.  I bought the cheapest available(IV, EOY for $36K) I have a few days to rescind, and from reading things here, I know that will be the reccomendation.
> 
> Still, I am leaning the other way.  I know that I could get better value, but I do like the 125K starpoints that were thrown in, which I could use for free nights at a trip I am already planning for Europe this summer.
> 
> Am I crazy?



Actually you may not be crazy. Six months ago I bought Ocean Front every year for $72K from the developer, with 125,000 Starpoints, plus 100,000 in lieu of using my Explorer package, plus 10,000 more in compensation for a minor matter, and 7000 for doing the tour. I could have saved $10-15,000 buying resale but I'm not American, and going via SVO made things much simpler and I'm pretty happy with 242,000 Starpoints. 

I knew exactly what I wanted in advance, and I knew that I was going to take the Explorer package and then swap it for an extra 100,000 Starpoints.

So yes, resale is generally the way to go, but 125,000 Starpoints for EOY ain't bad. 

And I don't share the low valuation others give to Starpoints. I'm a Starwood platinum, which means I'm usually upgraded to the best room even on a points stay, and I get lounge access in Westins and Sheratons which means free meals in the morning and evening.

Under the Cash and Points scheme I can stay at a pretty good Category 5 hotel for $90 +4,800 Starpoints, which means something like 50 nights at $90 each thanks to my purchase. At places like the Royal Hawaiian (where I will be staying before Maui  each year) I would have paid around $500 for the same room.


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## wfleish (Feb 24, 2008)

koruman said:


> Actually you may not be crazy. Six months ago I bought Ocean Front every year for $72K from the developer, with 125,000 Starpoints, plus 100,000 in lieu of using my Explorer package, plus 10,000 more in compensation for a minor matter, and 7000 for doing the tour. I could have saved $10-15,000 buying resale but I'm not American, and going via SVO made things much simpler and I'm pretty happy with 242,000 Starpoints.
> 
> I knew exactly what I wanted in advance, and I knew that I was going to take the Explorer package and then swap it for an extra 100,000 Starpoints.
> 
> ...



I am not a Starwood platinum, but part of what i would give up for going re-sale (in addition to the 125,000 points and the ability to exchange for points) is becoming a Starwood Gold for life.  How much of a benefit is that really?


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## Henry M. (Feb 24, 2008)

I didn't find SPG Gold to be particularly useful. It's nice to have but not worth much to pay for it.


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## stevens397 (Feb 24, 2008)

FWIW, I traded my Kierland (developer purchase when it first opened for $27,900) back to Starwood for 72,000 Starpoints.  Not my first choice, but it was days before my unrented Super Bowl week was to go for naught so I was glad they made an exception and let me do this.

This summer we will be going to Italy.  Three nights, Cash & Points, in Rome and a week in a villa in Tuscany.  Then a few nights in London, also Cash & Points.  We are flying Business Class on British Airways.  I transferred my Starpoints to Cathay Pacific and 65,000 Starpoints got me 80,000 Cathay miles and one business class ticket.  If you do the math, it was worth quite a bit - over 5 cents per point.

Yes, it's getting a lot trickier since the devaluation to make it all work.  12,000 Starpoints two years ago for the Prince des Galles in Paris, 20,000 last year and now it's 30,000 per night!  But with Cash & Points and business or first class airfare or upgrades, there is still value.

BTW, when I purchased, I ended up with just over 150,000 Starpoints for my purchase.  Back then, it was worth well over $7,000 in value, bringing my Kierland purchase to just over $20,000.  But at the rates being quoted nowadays, and with the knowledge I've gotten since I joined TUG, I would need an EXTREMELY unique situation to purchase developer!


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## LisaRex (Feb 24, 2008)

If you really want SPG gold status, you can apply for the American Express Platinum charge card.  It's $450/year.  In addition to automatic gold status, you also get very nice perks if you travel a lot, including upgrades at their fine resorts and airport lounge access for American, Delta, and United (?).   

If you visit FlyerTalk, you can also try to find a code which might get you some introductory MRs.  I was able to get 25k MRs which took a bit of the sting out of the annual fee.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 24, 2008)

koruman said:


> I could have saved $10-15,000 buying resale...



Actually $22K...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260205602715&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016


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## wfleish (Feb 24, 2008)

LisaRex said:


> If you really want SPG gold status, you can apply for the American Express Platinum charge card.  It's $450/year.  In addition to automatic gold status, you also get very nice perks if you travel a lot, including upgrades at their fine resorts and airport lounge access for American, Delta, and United (?).
> 
> If you visit FlyerTalk, you can also try to find a code which might get you some introductory MRs.  I was able to get 25k MRs which took a bit of the sting out of the annual fee.



I am looking at the Amex Platinum benefits, and do not see the SPG Gold info, can you point me too that?


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## DeniseM (Feb 24, 2008)

wfleish said:


> I am looking at the Amex Platinum benefits, and do not see the SPG Gold info, can you point me too that?



That's because there aren't any!  The benefits are something like this: * If you travel a lot, the hotel is completely empty, the desk clerk is having a good day, and there is a full moon with Venus rising, you might get a room upgrade.*  

The problem is that Starwood gives gold status away to everyone - there are so many gold members walking around that the benefit has become completely diluted, and for the most part, Starwood ignores it.  Everyone who buys a Starwood TS from the developer is given gold status, and everyone who spends $30K a year is given gold status, and everyone who stays 10 times a year gets gold status, etc.

Here is a link to the Gold Benefits.


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## SDKath (Feb 24, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> Hi Kath - you are becoming quite the expert.
> 
> How do you arrive at this amount?



Remember we have been looking to buy and split one with my parents.  We almost went into escrow on a week 52 OF delux for that price.  Ended up deciding against it as it still is a lot of $$ and the MF were a lot.  We have since started looking for less expensive units.  I am no expert but have looked at a lot of the resales over the last 4-5 months.

That seller has since sold the Week 52 but his Week 51 was still up for sale last I looked (about a month ago)

Katherine


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 24, 2008)

SDKath said:


> Remember we have been looking to buy and split one with my parents.  We almost went into escrow on a week 52 OF delux for that price.  Ended up deciding against it as it still is a lot of $$ and the MF were a lot.  We have since started looking for less expensive units.  I am no expert but have looked at a lot of the resales over the last 4-5 months.
> 
> That seller has since sold the Week 52 but his Week 51 was still up for sale last I looked (about a month ago)
> 
> Katherine



Yes - I have been following your TS exploits (and that was me looking for WKV...)

I meant - how did you come up with "125,000 SP is worth about $2000"?


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## LisaRex (Feb 24, 2008)

wfleish said:


> I am looking at the Amex Platinum benefits, and do not see the SPG Gold info, can you point me too that?



https://www143.americanexpress.com/cards/home.do?pmccode=137#CARDS/137/1/0/0

See All Benefits
Travel Privileges

Scroll down to Starwood Preferred Guest Program


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