# Sticky - 2020 Hyatt Maintenance Fees



## WalnutBaron

This serves as an APB for all TUG Hyatt owners: it won't be long before we begin receiving invoices for our 2020 maintenance fees. As the invoices arrive to you, please post here with a summary of your invoice in the following format (*below is an example only*):

*Hyatt Pinon Pointe 2BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*

Operating Fee $1,000
Replacement Reserve 300
Property Taxes 150
Club Dues   150

Total $1,500

% increase over 2018 4.6%

Thanks to everyone for participating. Once we begin to get a good string of these, I'll ask TUGBrian to re-post this thread as a sticky.

Thanks!

*Admin Note: The 2019 MF thread is here for reference: https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/2019-hyatt-maintenance-fees.280681/


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## WalnutBaron

FYI, the proposed budget for Hyatt Highlands Inn calls for a stiff 7.9% increase from $1,590 in 2019 to $1,716 in 2020. Ugh. That said, all of the roofs--which were wood shingle and, therefore, a definite fire hazard--have been or are being replaced with fire resistant materials.

Here is the breakdown courtesy of the owners association president:


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## ivywag

It looks like Support, Management Fees and Club Fees (Marriott) took a hefty jump. Interesting that those fees are thrown in with the upgrade to the internet. CA’s new minimum wage law didn’t help either.


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## alameda94501

Must be rough on the HPC Land Trust with 496+ unit weeks at Highlands Inn, that's a $62.4k jump in their maintenance fees.  At least there's no bad debt with them.

I'm curious how bad the bad debt problem is.


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## jonfff74

WalnutBaron said:


> This serves as an APB for all TUG Hyatt owners: it won't be long before we begin receiving invoices for our 2020 maintenance fees. As the invoices arrive to you, please post here with a summary of your invoice in the following format (*below is an example only*):
> 
> *Hyatt Pinon Pointe 2BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*
> 
> Operating Fee $1,000
> Replacement Reserve 300
> Property Taxes 150
> Club Dues   150
> 
> Total $1,500
> 
> % increase over 2018 4.6%
> 
> Thanks to everyone for participating. Once we begin to get a good string of these, I'll ask TUGBrian to re-post this thread as a sticky.
> 
> Thanks!


I thought Pinon Pointe maintainance fees for 2BR were ~1,000 - that's the maintenance fee I see listed on various resale sights.  Can someone explain to me why is quoted at $1,500 (see above) whereas listings seem to list maintenance fees of ~$1,100?


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## alameda94501

jonfff74 said:


> I thought Pinon Pointe maintainance fees for 2BR were ~1,000 - that's the maintenance fee I see listed on various resale sights.  Can someone explain to me why is quoted at $1,500 (see above) whereas listings seem to list maintenance fees of ~$1,100?



That's just @WalnutBaron's example.  It's not a real number.  It's currently ~$1,180 at Pinon, but I'm not sure about 2020.  

Various jurisdictions/resorts may also have different maintenance fees for different members, for example because of property tax assessments.


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## ivywag

alameda94501 said:


> Must be rough on the HPC Land Trust with 496+ unit weeks at Highlands Inn, that's a $62.4k jump in their maintenance fees.  At least there's no bad debt with them.
> 
> I'm curious how bad the bad debt problem is.


We received our proposed budget for next year.  It looks like bad debt is $30.89 per unit week.  That's a lot!


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## Sapper

ivywag said:


> We received our proposed budget for next year.  It looks like bad debt is $30.89 per unit week.  That's a lot!



It’s not great, but the reality is when compared to the other line items, it’s not horrid either. Look at it this way, the INCREASE in the management fee for this year alone is apx $12 more than the total bad debt. The INCREASE in the reserves for this year alone is apx 2/3 the total bad debt. Perhaps we should be casting a light on the other line items?  Why is it that during Marriotts first maintenance fee collection the management fee line item jumps so significantly?


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## Guzztimeshare

WalnutBaron said:


> This serves as an APB for all TUG Hyatt owners: it won't be long before we begin receiving invoices for our 2020 maintenance fees. As the invoices arrive to you, please post here with a summary of your invoice in the following format (*below is an example only*):
> 
> *Hyatt Pinon Pointe 2BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*
> 
> Operating Fee $1,000
> Replacement Reserve 300
> Property Taxes 150
> Club Dues   150
> 
> Total $1,500
> 
> % increase over 2018 4.6%
> 
> Thanks to everyone for participating. Once we begin to get a good string of these, I'll ask TUGBrian to re-post this thread as a sticky.
> 
> Thanks!


New to this site.  Own both at Hyatt Highlands Inn and Hyatt High Sierra.  I believe there is a cap on how much maintenance fees can increase each year.  I remember reading it but wondering about others?


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## alameda94501

Welcome!  I am not sure what the cap is, as 8% seems like a heavy increase based on my history with Highlands Inn.



Guzztimeshare said:


> New to this site.  Own both at Hyatt Highlands Inn and Hyatt High Sierra.  I believe there is a cap on how much maintenance fees can increase each year.  I remember reading it but wondering about others?


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## WalnutBaron

Guzztimeshare said:


> New to this site.  Own both at Hyatt Highlands Inn and Hyatt High Sierra.  I believe there is a cap on how much maintenance fees can increase each year.  I remember reading it but wondering about others?


I wish. There is no cap on maintenance fee increases except for effective oversight by a watchful board of directors and, very indirectly, competitive forces. There is a lot of suspicion that--now that Marriott owns the Hyatt system--Marriott is behind the large planned increase at HHI. It certainly bears everyone paying attention to their MF increases this year to see if the 8% increase at HHI is a one-off or the canary in the coal mine for the entire Hyatt system in 2020.


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## echino

Hyatt Piñon Pointe is also increasing about 8%.

Hyatt Windward Pointe is increasing about 15%.

Hyatt Hacienda del Mar is increasing about 50%.


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## grevas1

Hyatt Hacienda del Mar 2020-
Operating Fee- $1533.14 = 30% increase from 2019
Reserve fee- $350 = -7.72% decrease
M/F- $1883.14 = 21.27% increase
Disaster Recovery Reserve (one time fee)= $420.10

Total fees for 2020- $2303.24 = 48.32% from 2019.


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## WalnutBaron

echino said:


> Hyatt Piñon Pointe is also increasing about 8%.
> 
> Hyatt Windward Pointe is increasing about 15%.
> 
> Hyatt Hacienda del Mar is increasing about 50%.


Wow. Thanks, Marriott. One thing that hasn't been discussed on this board, but should be: when the developer aggressively pushes higher MF's, it eventually begins to negatively impact resale values. Time for vigilance.


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## Sugarcubesea

Has anyone seen what the Beach House is going up for 2020?


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## SteelerGal

On the Hyatt FB Board, there’s an uproar over Windward increase.  Is the increase due to the points increase?


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## echino

Hyatt Windward Pointe increase will depend on the results of the vote whether to waive full funding of reserves. If it's waived, the increase will be about 15% (due to reserves), if it's not waived, the increase will be much higher (also due to reserves).


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## alameda94501

SteelerGal said:


> On the Hyatt FB Board, there’s an uproar over Windward increase.  Is the increase due to the points increase?



I don't own there, but it doesn't make any sense that there would be an increase in fees over a points increase (and that was several years ago for Windward Pointe).  Points equalization happens when there is a Hyatt-perceived inequity in supply/demand for particular weeks and they either boost seasons (e.g. Gold becomes Diamond) or boost the "class" (e.g. 2 Bedroom becomes 2 Bedroom Deluxe).  It only goes one way - they don't unboost, but obviously there could be an inflation of sorts if they need to equalize across the board.  

It's more likely that there is hurricane damage to be addressed, like with Puerto Rico.


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## WalnutBaron

alameda94501 said:


> It's more likely that there is hurricane damage to be addressed, like with Puerto Rico.


You're probably right, but why not just be honest with the owners and issue a special assessment? With that kind of a huge MF increase, the additional cost of ownership is not only baked into all future MF's for perpetuity, but the net effect is a big reduction in resale value (not that Marriott cares one whit about that).


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## SteelerGal

WalnutBaron said:


> You're probably right, but why not just be honest with the owners and issue a special assessment? With that kind of a huge MF increase, the additional cost of ownership is not only baked into all future MF's for perpetuity, but the net effect is a big reduction in resale value (not that Marriott cares one whit about that).


I was thinking the same.  Why not a special assessment?  
If it’s not, increases will occur on an annual basis until Marriott reaches the amount it believes is justifiable.


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## Sapper

This is not about hurricane damage. If it were, there would be a line item similar to the Puerto Rico property “Disaster Recovery Reserve”.  Also, if it were hurricane driven all of the other Hyatt properties would not be increasing 8%-21%. This is about Marriott’s profit margin. They are being greedy and capitalizing on a product that has a high barrier to exit. This is profit driven.


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## SteelerGal

Sapper said:


> This is not about hurricane damage. If it were, there would be a line item similar to the Puerto Rico property “Disaster Recovery Reserve”.  Also, if it were hurricane driven all of the other Hyatt properties would not be increasing 8%-21%. This is about Marriott’s profit margin. They are being greedy and capitalizing on a product that has a high barrier to exit. This is profit driven.


This!!!!


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## Sugarcubesea

I’m so sad that Marriott purchased Hyatt. They will end up with more foreclosures as people dump their Hyatts


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## Sapper

Sugarcubesea said:


> I’m so sad that Marriott purchased Hyatt. They will end up with more foreclosures as people dump their Hyatts



From Marriott’s perspective I think it’s a win win. Owners stay = higher revolving profits for Marriott. Owners sell at what will be significantly lower prices = Marriott ROFRing unit weeks to put into the new flavor product to sell at inflated prices = higher one time profits. Either way, Marriott wins. As an owner, I too am sad with the situation.


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## Tucsonadventurer

alameda94501 said:


> That's just @WalnutBaron's example.  It's not a real number.  It's currently ~$1,180 at Pinon, but I'm not sure about 2020.
> 
> Various jurisdictions/resorts may also have different maintenance fees for different members, for example because of property tax assessments.


We paid an extra $100 on estimated taxes for Pinon Pointe which we typically do to ensure we don't lose out on a wait list. We just got a notice that we owed an extra 80 so sounds like 180 increase. We will call tomorrow to verify


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## echino

I just paid the extra, also clicked to opt-out of $5 voluntary contribution. Now my contract is showing $5 owing. I am pretty sure this will prevent waitlist from being matched.


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## ivywag

I just logged into the Hyatt website to check inventory and a message popped up that the maintenance fees for our HSL units are now ready for payment. It did, however, allow me to check the inventory. I had complained for years that Hyatt (and then Interval) shut off access to inventory before the fees were actually due on Jan. 1.  I can see not being able to BOOK using next year's points until paid, but never understood why browsing inventory was a problem. Looks like they finally fixed it!


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## IslandTime

I prepaid maintenance fees for Sunset Harbor last month. I just now logged in and saw we owed an additional $160.83 which I went ahead and paid. Total for 2020 is $1801.76, only $20.22 more than last year.  I can't see a breakdown of the fees though. Is there somewhere I can find that online?


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## bdh

IslandTime said:


> I prepaid maintenance fees for Sunset Harbor last month. I just now logged in and saw we owed an additional $160.83 which I went ahead and paid. Total for 2020 is $1801.76, only $20.22 more than last year.  I can't see a breakdown of the fees though. Is there somewhere I can find that online?



There is a good breakdown that is on one your account pages before you pay.  A breakdown is still available online after you pay, but it is very confusing to see what the various amounts were for.  So it's waaaay easier to call in to get the breakdown once you've paid.


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## IslandTime

Will I still get a statement in the mail if I already paid it?


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## bdh

IslandTime said:


> Will I still get a statement in the mail if I already paid it?



You should (unless they've gone to email only).


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## charlieth0

WalnutBaron said:


> This serves as an APB for all TUG Hyatt owners: it won't be long before we begin receiving invoices for our 2020 maintenance fees. As the invoices arrive to you, please post here with a summary of your invoice in the following format (*below is an example only*):
> 
> *Hyatt Pinon Pointe 2BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*
> 
> Operating Fee $1,000
> Replacement Reserve 300
> Property Taxes 150
> Club Dues   150
> 
> Total $1,500
> 
> % increase over 2018 4.6%
> 
> Thanks to everyone for participating. Once we begin to get a good string of these, I'll ask TUGBrian to re-post this thread as a sticky.
> 
> Thanks!


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## charlieth0

*Hyatt Pinon Pointe 2BR Gold Season 1,880 points Annual*

Operating Fee  ?
Replacement Reserve ?
Property Taxes ?
Club Dues ?

Total $1,206.25

% increase over 2019 7.4%

*Hyatt Pinon Pointe 2BR Silver Season 1,400 points EOY 

off year
*
Total $ 157

% increase over 2018(last off year)  2.6%


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## ivywag

echino said:


> I just paid the extra, also clicked to opt-out of $5 voluntary contribution. Now my contract is showing $5 owing. I am pretty sure this will prevent waitlist from being matched.


We also opted out of the voluntary contribution and shows $5 due on each paid week.  I called and the rep said that it would not prevent a match from waitlist and that it will "fall off" by itself. Hope she really knows! I don't have a lot of faith in the knowledge of the phone reps.


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## travelhacker

ivywag said:


> We also opted out of the voluntary contribution and shows $5 due on each paid week.  I called and the rep said that it would not prevent a match from waitlist and that it will "fall off" by itself. Hope she really knows! I don't have a lot of faith in the knowledge of the phone reps.



I just paid mine a few days ago, and it seemed to "fall off" just like the rep described.


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## ivywag

travelhacker said:


> I just paid mine a few days ago, and it seemed to "fall off" just like the rep described.


Thank you. I feel better now!


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## WalnutBaron

*Hyatt Pinon Pointe 2BR Diamond Season 2,200 points Annual*

Maintenance Fee $757.26
Replacement Reserve $207.09
Property Taxes $84.90
Club Dues $157.00

Total $1,206.25

% increase over 2018 8.0%


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## GTLINZ

Wild Oak Ranch 2BR Gold Even

1,344.24

I do not have the breakdown as it is part of closing so I just know the total.


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## Seagila

*Hyatt Windward Pointe 2BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*

Maintenance Fee $919.91
Replacement Reserve $307.02
Property Taxes $116.77
Club Dues $157.00

Total $1,500.70

% increase over 2019 13.74% ($181.32)


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## echino

*Hyatt Residence Club Bonita Springs, Coconut Plantation*

2br Gold Season, 1,880 annual points

2020 Maintenance Fees $1,013.19
2020 Reserves $248.15
2020 Property Taxes $0.00
2020 Club Dues $157.00
Voluntary ARDA Contribution $0.00

2020 Total $1,418.34

-1.8% decrease over 2019


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## Sapper

*Hyatt Beach House 2BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*

Operating Fee $898.24
Replacement Reserve $426.29
Property Taxes $28.55
Club Dues $157

Total $1,510.08

% increase over 2019: 14% per the operating budget (attached)


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## Sugarcubesea

Sapper said:


> *Hyatt Beach House 2BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*
> 
> Operating Fee $898.24
> Replacement Reserve $426.29
> Property Taxes $28.55
> Club Dues $157
> 
> Total $1,510.08
> 
> % increase over 2019: 14% per the operating budget (attached)
> 
> View attachment 15037



Sapper, I know you and I are bummed about this one the most as we both own here...dang that is a hefty increase and it darn well better not be 14% next year...


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## Tucsonadventurer

Sugarcubesea said:


> Sapper, I know you and I are bummed about this one the most as we both own here...dang that is a hefty increase and it darn well better not be 14% next year...


I think they are trying to equalize Hyatts fees with Marriott which is bad news as Hyatt has been significantly lower. We too own at Beach House


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## Sapper

Sugarcubesea said:


> Sapper, I know you and I are bummed about this one the most as we both own here...dang that is a hefty increase and it darn well better not be 14% next year...



The largest dollar (as opposed to percent) increase comes from a new line item added this year. “Operating Capital” shows $0 for 2019 and $66.84 for 2020. What exactly is “Operating Capital” in the context of our maintenance fees?  Is this a slush fund for local management akin to petty cash?  Is this new line item in all of the different properties operating budgets (as it seems all properties budgets are rapidly increasing this year)?  If so, who directed that this line item be added?  Why?  I do not like the direction this is headed.


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## Sapper

Tucsonadventurer said:


> I think they are trying to equalize Hyatts fees with Marriott which is bad news as Hyatt has been significantly lower. We too own at Beach House



Historically fiscally conservative management (Hyatt) vs maximize profit for the company on a product with a high barrier to exit (Marriott).


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## HenryT

*2020 Hyatt Pinon Pointe 2BR Platinum Season 2,000 Points Annual*
Operating Fee: $757.26
Replacement Reserve: $207.09
Property Taxes: $84.90
Club Dues: $157.00
Total $1,206.25
% increase over 2019: 8.8%

*2020 Hyatt Sunset Harbor 2BR Gold Season 1880 Points Annual*
Operating Fee: $1,111.82
Replacement Reserve: $371.08
Property Taxes: $123.67
Club Dues: $157.00
Total $1,763.57
% increase over 2019: 0.37%


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## WalnutBaron

*Hyatt Highlands Inn Carmel 1BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*

Maintenance Fee $1341.99
Replacement Reserve $216.83
Property Taxes $249.45
Club Dues $157.00
Carmel Wastewater Fee $22.95

Total $1,988.22

% increase over 2018  +7.9%


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## bdurstta

Just got my Hyatt Highlands Carmel in the mail.  At $1988.22 per year...unfortunately, if the fees keep going up 7.9%...it will cease to be of value to me for that price.    Timesharing sure has changed!  LOL


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## Sapper

bdurstta said:


> Just got my Hyatt Highlands Carmel in the mail.  At $1988.22 per year...unfortunately, if the fees keep going up 7.9%...it will cease to be of value to me for that price.    Timesharing sure has changed!  LOL



I almost wonder if this is by design. Rapidly raise maintenance fees forcing people to sell. The resale value will plummet due to both the higher maintenance fees and the larger volume of units entering the marketplace. Hyatt/Marriott buys these units at a steep discount using ROFR. Add the units into the Portfolio Program (or whatever the future program may be called).

Alternatively, they may be increasing budgets in order to make the properties look well funded to get a higher profit spinning the Hyatt properties off. Lipstick on a pig (though none of the Hyatt properties are pigs) if you will.


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## bdurstta

Just makes me a little bit sad.  I mean once someone truly embraces the timeshare concept (its not for everyone) it seems to work well.  Especially when you have a family.  But now, our kids are grown and married.  They are NOT interested in "inheriting" this at all...and especially not at the current maintenance fee rates.      We will enjoy for as long a we thing they are cost effective..but once the maintenance fees hit $2000+ per year...well...it will be the time to seriously re-evaluate!


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## cafeirene

I think there is some buggy behavior on the HRC site now that causes the processing of a payment to loop and fail (tho with NO error message) if you try to op out of the 'voluntary ARDA fee'.  I tried several times yesterday and finally called, but since they were unable to send me an email receipt I declined.  Today I tied again, several times, and finally just paid the $5 and it processed fine, and I have a receipt.  I am NOT pleased, but my time trying to get their attention yesterday tells me there is no technical support available to the owners, and the call desk just says there is no problem. I have never had an issue paying on line before and declining the fee in previous years. 

so, for a 1 Bdrm Premier Diamond Week (2200 pts) 
2020 Maintenance Fees     $1341.99
2020 Reserves                     216.83
2020 Property Taxes             254.17
2020 Club Dues                    157.00
2020 Carmel Area Wastewater 22.95
"Voluntary ARDA Contribution"  5.00
------------------------------------------
                   Total             $1997.94

so another question that stings a bit is what is the added value to me as an owner to pay a club fee - is this just Marriott being greedy?


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## off2maui

WalnutBaron said:


> *Hyatt Highlands Inn Carmel 1BR Platinum Season 2,000 points Annual*
> 
> Maintenance Fee $1341.99
> Replacement Reserve $216.83
> Property Taxes $249.45
> Club Dues $157.00
> Carmel Wastewater Fee $22.95
> 
> Total $1,988.22
> 
> % increase over 2018  +7.9%



Question on the payment of "Property Taxes" on Highlands Inn TS: Is it part of the MF and paid by the property management, or is it paid separately as most California TS?


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## WalnutBaron

off2maui said:


> Question on the payment of "Property Taxes" on Highlands Inn TS: Is it part of the MF and paid by the property management, or is it paid separately as most California TS?


Unlike most other California timeshares, property taxes are paid by Hyatt management and reimbursed to them through annual MF. It's done for two reasons: 1) it's a nice convenience for HRC members; 2) it ensures the taxes get paid without delinquency issues so nothing goes awry from the standpoint of Monterey County.


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## jjking42

anybody post for High Sierra MF yet


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## Denise L

High Sierra 2 bedroom

Maintenance Fee $876.01
Reserves $362.39
Property Taxes $92.91
Club Dues $157.00
Voluntary ARDA $5.00
TOTAL:  $1493.31


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## GTLINZ

Does anyone have the breakdown for a Wild Oak 2br ?


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## Mongoose

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We paid an extra $100 on estimated taxes for Pinon Pointe which we typically do to ensure we don't lose out on a wait list. We just got a notice that we owed an extra 80 so sounds like 180 increase. We will call tomorrow to verify


I'm looking at buying at Pinon Pointe.  Can you explain why you paid early?  Did that allow you to convert to CUP early and book outside of your window?


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## Tucsonadventurer

no, we usually pay early to get our wait list. If fees go up and you owe extra on top on the estimated , you can miss out of getting your wait list. Also if you go to book an internal or II exchange they will ask you to pay the difference. Unfortunately Hyatt does not always tell you you owe more so we try to call and check when we remember.


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## GTLINZ

GTLINZ said:


> Wild Oak Ranch 2BR Gold Even
> 1,344.24
> I do not have the breakdown as it is part of closing so I just know the total.



Operating Fee: $816.91
Replacement Reserve: $221.26
Property Taxes: $144.07
Club Dues: $157.00
Arda: $5.00 (opted out)
Total $1,344.24


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## AJCts411

This is a excerpt of the proposed 2021 maintenance fees for Sunset Harbor.   I'm no accountant but seems "management fees"  and "reserves" are the large drivers of the proposed increase.  
I was hoping an owner, experienced in these matters could comment.   The link was attached to a BOD election notice.


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## sjsharkie

AJCts411 said:


> This is a excerpt of the proposed 2021 maintenance fees for Sunset Harbor.   I'm no accountant but seems "management fees"  and "reserves" are the large drivers of the proposed increase.
> I was hoping an owner, experienced in these matters could comment.   The link was attached to a BOD election notice.


You may want to post this in a new post since not many people look at the 2020 mf thread.

But are they saying there is a 41-43% increase in mfs at Sunset Harbor?  Yikes!

Since you didn't post the proposed budget, I am not able to tell you where the increases came from -- the above is just a revenue projection.  I suspect though that there might be more bad debt and HOA owned week inventory that might not have rented out due to COVID.

-ryan


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## Sapper

Until the budget is voted on its not final. Usually down voting a lot of the reserves happens which brings the budget back into a less eye popping increase. I received Beach House’s proposed budget the other day, and it has a similar “yikes” feeling to it, but it just includes all of the reserves that get removed after they are voted down.


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## bdh

The "Proposed Budget" format in 2020 is different than previous years as the only budget shown is the version with full funding of Reserves.  Previous years would have two versions: full funding and partial funding if waived by owners.


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