# Can Pigs Fly Or Worse Stay In Room?



## pacodemountainside (Dec 2, 2014)

Where does it end? 

http://www.hindmansanchez.com/blog/...neous/when-pigs-fly…as-emotional-support-pets


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## PigsDad (Dec 2, 2014)

I would much rather stay in a room after a properly cared-for pig was there vs. a dog or a cat.  Pigs are very clean, don't shed, and don't have dander that causes allergic reactions.

Kurt


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## BJRSanDiego (Dec 2, 2014)

In California, the recognize "support ponies".  I think that they are supposed to be miniaturized.  And maybe they don't shed.  But even so...


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## Tia (Dec 3, 2014)

Pig on a plane didn't work out very well sounds like from reading the link...


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## kjsgrammy (Dec 3, 2014)

BJRSanDiego said:


> In California, the recognize "support ponies".  I think that they are supposed to be miniaturized.  And maybe they don't shed.  But even so...



A couple of years back, we were in a Walmarts in Kissimmee, FL and there was a women IN THE STORE with a pony!  I asked a clerk how it was allowed, and was told that the woman and her pony were "regulars" and that the pony was a "support pet" and had to be allowed.  According to the clerk, she even takes the pony onto the bus to get from her home to the Walmart.

Sorry, but I think allowing a pony as a "support pet" is getting out of hand.  Just my opinion.


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## rhonda (Dec 3, 2014)

Pony or miniature horse?  I'm seeing quite an uptick in the owning and training miniature horses for a wide variety of tasks including companion pets, hospital visits, etc. 

FWIW, both ponies and miniature horses are great fun to play with ... even for adults.  Many of my friends who initially added a pony to their yard as a "companion pet" for a solo horse have discovered that they are delighted by the antics of the pony.  They give a great deal of "try" when introduced to new tasks.  Hey, "cute pony" videos are almost as addictive as "cute kitten" videos!


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## Passepartout (Dec 3, 2014)

A neighbor has a miniature horse. it's not much bigger than a large dog. Cute, but I have to say, it still smells like a horse. Her back yard smells like a barnyard. I can't imaging letting one into a house/store or any other enclosed place meant  primarily for human accommodation.

I feel the same toward domesticated pigs.

Jim


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## PigsDad (Dec 3, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> A neighbor has a miniature horse. it's not much bigger than a large dog. Cute, but I have to say, it still smells like a horse. Her back yard smells like a barnyard. *I can't imaging letting one into a house/store or any other enclosed place meant  primarily for human accommodation.
> 
> I feel the same toward domesticated pigs.*


So do you feel the same toward domesticated dogs and cats?  Why or why not?

Kurt


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## Passepartout (Dec 3, 2014)

PigsDad said:


> So do you feel the same toward domesticated dogs and cats?  Why or why not?



I don't expect my (non-shedding) dog to be welcome in establishments where people may be sensitive or food is sold/prepared/served. I don't abide cats, so that's another thing. Actually, I thought I explained it pretty well in the first sentence of my post. Barnyard animals belong in barnyards.


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## Beefnot (Dec 3, 2014)

The allowance of "support animals" on flights and in establishments is just plain silly. I am so dismayed at the continued sissification of America.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 3, 2014)

What do you think happens when spoiled, rotten kids grow up to be adults?

They become spoiled rotten adults with MORE money.

I remember being told by my parents to "get over it; you are making a BIG deal out of nothing!".

Now a PONY on the public bus --- that is "NOT NOTHING" ... I would bet if she had to walk or ride the thing back & forth to Walmart, she would either "get over it" or shop closer to home. Dang, she could ride it to Walmart verses taking the bus .... wait, wait, wait. The pony is not air conditioned or she might get rained upon on her ride over to Walmart.


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## PigsDad (Dec 3, 2014)

Passepartout said:


> I don't expect my (non-shedding) dog to be welcome in establishments where people may be sensitive or food is sold/prepared/served. I don't abide cats, so that's another thing. Actually, I thought I explained it pretty well in the first sentence of my post. Barnyard animals belong in barnyards.



I actually agree with your first sentence -- I don't think animals should be allowed in restaurants.  But what defines which animals should be allowed in hotels, store, etc. and which should not?

But for the sake of a discussion, what do you think defines a non-"barnyard animal"?  Is it under a certain size?  House trained? Comfortable and safe around people?  Doesn't have a bad odor?

We used to have a potbellied pig.  It was the size of a medium dog, extremely well house trained, very friendly around people and kids, never bit (or barked), and the only odor it had was the smell of baby shampoo since it was bathed and shampooed daily (yes, really!).  I would not consider that a "barnyard animal".

A sheep dog was bred to help tend a flock.  They often sleep in the barn.  It could be argued that it would be much more of a "barnyard animal" than pet potbellied pig.

So which of those two animals should be allowed in a hotel room?  Personally, I would vote for neither, but that is just me -- I don't think bringing animals into restaurants, stores, hotels, on busses, etc. is appropriate.

Kurt


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## JohnPaul (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm relucatant to make this post because this is an area that people's minds are pretty set.

However, I think that anyone who does not have a friend or relative whose life is truly enhanced by an emotional support animal has no clue what they are talking aboiut.

Yes, there are people who falsely take advantage of these rules but there are a huge number of people whose lives are amazingly improved by their emotional support animals.


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## Beefnot (Dec 5, 2014)

JohnPaul said:


> I'm relucatant to make this post because this is an area that people's minds are pretty set.
> 
> However, I think that anyone who does not have a friend or relative whose life is truly enhanced by an emotional support animal has no clue what they are talking aboiut.
> 
> Yes, there are people who falsely take advantage of these rules but there are a huge number of people whose lives are amazingly improved by their emotional support animals.


 
I do not doubt for one moment that their lives are improved.  Most people own pets (or my three little human pets for that matter), for this very reason.  But that right to life improvement from an animal really needs to be confined to the home and other public spaces generally considered acceptable for animals to venture into (e.g. park, sidewalk, etc.).


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## PigsDad (Dec 5, 2014)

Beefnot said:


> I do not doubt for one moment that their lives are improved.  Most people own pets (or my three little human pets for that matter), for this very reason.  But that right to life improvement from an animal really needs to be confined to the home and other public spaces generally considered acceptable for animals to venture into (e.g. park, sidewalk, etc.).



Well said!

Kurt


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## MommaBear (Dec 6, 2014)

JohnPaul said:


> I'm relucatant to make this post because this is an area that people's minds are pretty set.
> 
> However, I think that anyone who does not have a friend or relative whose life is truly enhanced by an emotional support animal has no clue what they are talking aboiut.
> 
> Yes, there are people who falsely take advantage of these rules but there are a huge number of people whose lives are amazingly improved by their emotional support animals.



I totally agree that pets are a wonderful emotional support. There are lots of benefits both emotionally and medical that owning pets can provide. However, under the ADA and the definition of what constitutes a service animal, emotional support animals do not qualify for the same access status as service animals.


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## tleonard (Dec 31, 2014)

*How do I reserve timeshare  where no dog or cat allowed?*

Hi, 
  As I sit in our timeshare unit which I signed saying "no dog, cat or smoking allowed" and watch my grand daughter's eyes turn red and the whizzing start because she is very allergic to dogs - plus watch all the people with  their two little dogs staying in the unit next to us because they are "emotional support dogs"  I ask how is it possible to get a dog/cat free unit?  Has it ever been suggested to timeshares to  allow only certain units for animals and when they are gone they are gone.  Airlines allow only a certain number of dogs I think timeshare needs to do the same.
teresa


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## Ron98GT (Dec 31, 2014)

Beefnot said:


> The allowance of "support animals" on flights and in establishments is just plain silly. I am so dismayed at the continued sissification of America.



Wow, how totally self-centered and ignorant of the use of service animals (Dogs) and the contributions they make to a persons life with disabilities. So, hearing impaired, sight impared, and people with other medical impairments (and there are many) are nolonger suppose to travel or go to a restaurant because you thing its "Silly".  Do you think it's silly that a service dog could prevent/help a person from having a seizure.  Do you think PTSD service dogs are silly: tell that Veteran fortunate enough to have a service dog that it's silly and that he/she should't be flying or eating in the same restaurant as you.  Is it silly that people with medical disabilites are trying to lead a normal life, the best that they can, which includes traveling on an airplane and eating in restaurants. And what about people in wheel chairs, motorized scooters, crutches, etc, is it just "silly" for them to be traveling.  I suppose you think handicap parking spaces are silly too, since it takes away a parking spot that you could use. 

Over the last couple of days I've noticed how extremelly outspoken some individuals here on TUG are toward other individual with medical problems/disablities and how we offend and inconvenience you.

Personally, I'd rather sit in an airplane with a beautiful quite Golden Retriver (or Lab) and get a few dog hairs on me than be on a flight with screaming wailing kids sneezing, spitting, and farting everywhere along with their inconsiderate parents that have to bring along baby carriages the size of a volkswagaon beetle and everything else the kid owns.  You may not see the germs left behind by that kid, but it will get you a lot sicker than any dog hair will.

And don't get me started on inconsiderate, hypersensitive, cigarette smokers that think that the world revolves around them and we should all drop dead so that they can have their freedom to pollute and contaminate the air that we breathe and litter the ground with their disgusting cigarette butts.

Sometime you should read the Amaricans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and read about what contributions service dogs makes.

Happy New Years


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## Beefnot (Jan 1, 2015)

Ron98GT said:


> Wow, how totally self-centered and ignorant of the use of service animals (Dogs) and the contributions they make to a persons life with disabilities. So, hearing impaired, sight impared, and people with other medical impairments (and there are many) are nolonger suppose to travel or go to a restaurant because you thing its "Silly". Do you think it's silly that a service dog could prevent/help a person from having a seizure. Do you think PTSD service dogs are silly: tell that Veteran fortunate enough to have a service dog that it's silly and that he/she should't be flying or eating in the same restaurant as you. Is it silly that people with medical disabilites are trying to lead a normal life, the best that they can, which includes traveling on an airplane and eating in restaurants. And what about people in wheel chairs, motorized scooters, crutches, etc, is it just "silly" for them to be traveling. I suppose you think handicap parking spaces are silly too, since it takes away a parking spot that you could use.
> 
> Over the last couple of days I've noticed how extremelly outspoken some individuals here on TUG are toward other individual with medical problems/disablities and how we offend and inconvenience you.
> 
> ...



Call it what you will, by also make sure to note my other comment below. Most of your comments are shadowboxing, arguing against straw men you have created that I was not targeting. I have no issue with service animals who serve those with physical disabilities, particularly the sight impaired. But I have no patience or appreciation for these supposed support animals in public establishments to support someone who supposedly cannot cope with the outside world.



Beefnot said:


> I do not doubt for one moment that their lives are improved. Most people own pets (or my three little human pets for that matter), for this very reason. But that right to life improvement from an animal really needs to be confined to the home and other public spaces generally considered acceptable for animals to venture into (e.g. park, sidewalk, etc.).


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## VegasBella (Jan 1, 2015)

God forbid anyone experience a living playful gentle pet pig... make sure the only contact you have with farmed animals is on your plate, dead.

For the record, eating dead animals is far more dangerous than sitting on a plane with living ones. Google it - e coil and salmonella food poisoning, antibiotic overuse in CAFOs, increased cancer and heart disease...eating dead pigs, cows,chickens, and others kill millions of humans every year. A pet pig on an airplane has yet to kill or even harm a single human.


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## Beefnot (Jan 1, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> God forbid anyone experience a living playful gentle pet pig... make sure the only contact you have with farmed animals is on your plate, dead.
> 
> For the record, eating dead animals is far more dangerous than sitting on a plane with living ones. Google it - e coil and salmonella food poisoning, antibiotic overuse in CAFOs, increased cancer and heart disease...eating dead pigs, cows,chickens, and others kill millions of humans every year. A pet pig on an airplane has yet to kill or even harm a single human.



So can eating vegetables or fruits. In any case, we were not debating what is more harmful, but the irritation of having a pig on a plane, and by extension "support animals" in general. But now we know if we need an irritant sanity check when it comes to animals, we can count on one VegansBella!


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 1, 2015)

So whose quality of life is more important? A veteran, a child, a grandparent? Does it depend on their age, years of service for public good, education, income level or quality/quantity/type of doctors? Should there be a certificate of training for the "support" animal or a ranking of the "needed issue" for assistance?

Paco's original question "Where does it end?" And I have mumbled that question lots of times ...... 

And I realize that people's connections to their PETS is similar to theirs or other people's views of their KIDS. 

Now, don't get me started on annoying habits of humans or poorly trained pets .....


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## VegasBella (Jan 1, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> The allowance of "support animals" on flights and in establishments is just plain silly. I am so dismayed at the continued sissification of America.



Sissification, huh?
Says the guy complaining about a minor irritant during a luxury experience.
Sounds more like you're dismayed at the fact that things change over time and that other people have different values than you have.

The "continued sissification of America" has resulted in less criminal violence, abolition of human slavery and child labor, reduction of sexist and racist policies and more. Such sissies we are.


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## Beefnot (Jan 1, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> Sissification, huh?
> Says the guy complaining about a minor irritant during a luxury experience.
> Sounds more like you're dismayed at the fact that things change over time and that other people have different values than you have.
> 
> The "continued sissification of America" has resulted in less criminal violence, abolition of human slavery and child labor, reduction of sexist and racist policies and more. Such sissies we are.



This from the queen of the non-sequitur, false analogies, and specious logic. You conflate the righting of historical civil rights injustices with this topic? Wow. Great example of perhaps the sillification of America?

As for dismay that things change over time, if those changes disrupt the "luxuries" enjoyed by others for some perceived psychological benefit for a narrow segment of the population who cannot or will not learn how to adapt to life, yes I will be dismayed. 

And in your retort, please attempt to break free of the mental handicaps that seem to impair your arguments. Perhaps you yourself already own a support animal for this very reason?


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## VegasBella (Jan 1, 2015)

I do not have any support or service animals.
I prefer to travel without my animals most of the time. And I'm allergic to cats so I have empathy for those who have allergies to pets.

 I tried to certify one of my dogs as a therapy dog to provide assistance to others as a hospice volunteer job but he failed the test (was too frightened of loud noises and cowered in the corner). I also know how to use Google...

So let's start afresh. First, let's use correct terminology. 
Service animal = trained to provide assistance for a physical disability.
Emotional support animal = provide benefit to someone with a documented mental or psychological disability.
"Support animal" could mean either. 

There are certifications for these animals. There are various tests and documentation.

And they are not allowed everywhere. Just like how a hotel needn't make every room wheelchair accessible neither must they allow animals in every room. They must only provide reasonable accommodation.

Calling people who have documented mental and psychological disabilies "sissies" or implying that they choose "not to adapt" is prejudiced, rude, and on the wrong side of history.


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## Beefnot (Jan 1, 2015)

I am not calling emotionally/psychologically maladapted or undaptable people sissies. I am saying that catering to their supposed needs by allowing them to bring animals inot certain public or semi-public spaces is jot only intrusive but is also another example of the sissification of our society. This whole support animal nonsense is just plain societal pillow softness. If someone has emotional or psychological issues, they can go to a therapist, read books, join support groups, whatever. I am all for people getting the help they need, as long as that help does not also include bringing animals with them wherever they decide to go. 

If someone has a true physical disability--e.g., blindness--and utilizes a professionally trained and officially certified service dog, I absolutely get it, no complaints whatsoever from me. But aside from those relatively infrequent circumstances, nope, not an ounce of acceptance or understanding of support animals outside of a home environment.


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## VegasBella (Jan 1, 2015)

Beefnot said:


> I am not calling emotionally/psychologically maladapted or maladaptable people sissies. I am saying that catering to their supposed needs by allowing them to bring animals inot certain public or semi-public spaces is jot only intrusive but is also another example of the sissification of our society. This whole support animal nonsense is just plain societal pillow softness. If someone has emotional or psychological issues, they can go to a therapist, read books, join support groups, whatever. I am all for people getting the help they need, as long as that help does not also include bringing animals with them wherever they decide to go.
> 
> If someone has a true physical disability--e.g., blindness--and utilizes a professionally trained and officially certified service dog, I absolutely get it, no complaints whatsoever from me. But aside from those relatively infrequent circumstances, nope, not an ounce of acceptance or understanding of support animals outside of a home environment.



shorter: Beefnot deserves a luxury vacation more than someone with PTSD deserves to fly to see a dying relative if said PTSD sufferer travels with an emotional support bunny rabbit.
Because bunnies are soft sissy pets.


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## Beefnot (Jan 1, 2015)

VegasBella said:


> shorter: Beefnot deserves a luxury vacation more than someone with PTSD deserves to fly to see a dying relative if said PTSD sufferer travels with an emotional support bunny rabbit.
> Because bunnies are soft sissy pets.



Everyone has a right to get to where they want to go. As far as I am concerned, that PTSD person can drive with their pretty little bunny, or suck it up and fly without it.  But VeganBella is quickly devolving the maturity level of the discussion, so I will pretend VeganBella doesn't exist and then maybe she will find some other thread to spout self-righteous and intellectually bankrupt silliness on. My trying to debate those much less equipped serves only to waste my time.


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## Makai Guy (Jan 2, 2015)

Thread is going nowhere.  Closing so all the combatents can get their egos back in check.


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