# Club Wyndham Access Rumor



## rrlongwell (Mar 29, 2012)

For those interested in rumer and gossip, I just picked up on a rumer that Wyndham is going to be offering a program next year that takes back the non-Club Wyndham Access deeds and exchanges them on a point for point basis for a Club Wyndham Access new purchase.  The rumer was not clear on wether or not re-sale deeds would be included in what was being offered as a take back.  Alas, if true, another case that a Wyndham Point is not a Wyndham Point, Wyndham apparently has a strong preference for their non-Access deeded properties.


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## simpsontruckdriver (Mar 29, 2012)

Rumors are just that, rumors. Personally, I don't know why anyone would give up their deeded points to a certain resort with almost guaranteed ARP, only to get CWA where they are VERY lucky to get ARP at their resorts.

TS


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 29, 2012)

simpsontruckdriver said:


> Rumors are just that, rumors. Personally, I don't know why anyone would give up their deeded points to a certain resort with almost guaranteed ARP, only to get CWA where they are VERY lucky to get ARP at their resorts.
> 
> TS



VIP Privileged?  Does Access get VIP Privileges?


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## ronparise (Mar 29, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> For those interested in rumer and gossip, I just picked up on a rumer that Wyndham is going to be offering a program next year that takes back the non-Club Wyndham Access deeds and exchanges them on a point for point basis for a Club Wyndham Access new purchase.  The rumer was not clear on wether or not re-sale deeds would be included in what was being offered as a take back.  Alas, if true, another case that a Wyndham Point is not a Wyndham Point, Wyndham apparently has a strong preference for their non-Access deeded properties.



Im not so sure this is new, dont the sales guys routinely trash whatever it is that you own and suggest that you trade it in with a new purchase on one big contract at their resort? What do you think happens with those trade ins?  I think they go into CWA


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 29, 2012)

RR:

I do give you credit for posting rumors here where they can be analyzed/shot down!

However, you must recognize Wyndham time shares is a sales driven organision with an "F" BBB rating.

Since new owner sales were just around  4K in 2010 and 2011 they have to jucice sales and income by other methods. That  increase in stock  value over last 3 years from  $4 to $40 had to come from somewhere!
Think Developer collecting $299 transfer fee while most HOA's charge $50-$100 and money goes to HOA?

Let's see:

Circa 2002 I heard points were going up 10% next month and I had to buy today.

Circa 2002 Wyndham is going to be opening 3-4 new resorts a year so in a few years can go anywhere in world.

Circa 2005 Points for VIP were going up

Circa 2006 to today Resale points were no good, could only be used at home resort, booked 60 days out and reservation cancelled if Developer purchaser wanted my reservation.

Circa 2007 Wyndham/VOI Trust is going to screw Fairfield owners especially VIPs. TRUE See Bill Spearman article in TimeSharing Today.

Alley-himmers precludes me remembering all the other!

Everything Wyndham/VOI Trust(run by three Wyndham executives) does carrys an a la carte fee, $2,395 to upgrade, or is built into POA or HOA fee

As us Western horse traders say,  would anyone with common sense God gave a new born jackass trade in guaranteed ARP at red hot resort for CWA crap shot, get  great ROFR benefit and pay for priviledge of doing?

Points are points. ARP is totally independent  issue!

My CWA resale  points are co-mingled  with Developer points and only benefit I don't get is  upgrade to VIP Gold and  free USA Today!

No way Jose!!!!


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## Ridewithme38 (Mar 29, 2012)

I like this guy!


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## Cheryl20772 (Mar 29, 2012)

Well, if Wyndham did trade UDI to Access, availability might become better for Access.  I just would not want to trade my low MF's at PCB for what Access costs.


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## rrlongwell (Mar 30, 2012)

ronparise said:


> Im not so sure this is new, dont the sales guys routinely trash whatever it is that you own and suggest that you trade it in with a new purchase on one big contract at their resort? What do you think happens with those trade ins?  I think they go into CWA



The semi-new part is that the points will be sold at a discount during the promotion for the new purchase portion.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 30, 2012)

Cheryl20772 said:


> Well, if Wyndham did trade UDI to Access, availability might become better for Access.  I just would not want to trade my low MF's at PCB for what Access costs.



The ONLY reasonable reasons Wyndham wants your UDI deeds are:
It is a Vacation Club - not deeded ownership, so they can lock you out at the 30 day late rule via a letter.
All the UDI points end up in a trust that THEY manage where owners have NO IDEA how many points and WHO used them for WHAT reservations ESP ARP and RARP. Also, remember, they control the reservation systems - they could literally book every RENTALABLE reservation during the ARP for Extra Holidays claiming THEIR rightful ownership. Extra Holidays only charges 40% commission which goes into a different bucket. Hence, while it would look like CWA is not covering some of the rentals' cost of MFs - Wyndham Corporate is making pure profit off the BACKS of the CWA owners covering unsold points MFs.


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## mshatty (Mar 30, 2012)

Think about how unrealistic this rumour is.  Unless I voluntarily deed my UDI deed to Wyndham for Club Access, Wyndham would have to sue me on some unknown legal theory to get my UDI deeded points because they have no right to convert my ownership.  Are they going to sue thousands and thousands of people?  Get real.  Can't happen.


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## bnoble (Mar 30, 2012)

> points will be sold at a discount


Clarification: you will pay Wyndham extra money to convert points you already own from one flavor to another.  The amount of extra money might be less than buying points from them you don't already own.  That's not the same as "a discount" in my book.  And, you can bet your bottom dollar that the "discount" to do this with resale points will still be a pretty penny.



> Wyndham apparently has a strong preference for their non-Access deeded properties.


Well, duh.  Deeded owners have voting rights with their HOA, and property rights that convey with the deed.  CWA "members" do not have voting or property rights.  This is, essentially, the Diamond model, and it's brilliant...for the developer.



> Unless I voluntarily deed my UDI deed to Wyndham for Club Access, Wyndham would have to sue me on some unknown legal theory to get my UDI deeded points because they have no right to convert my ownership.


My read is that it *is* a "voluntary" program---its a sales tactic.

A word to those who are lurking, and may not follow the board all that closely: rrlongwell has something of a history of repeating anything heard during an "Owner's Update" more or less verbatim without much in the way of critical analysis.  Take anything posted with a liberal dose of salt.


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## VivianLynne (Mar 30, 2012)

bnoble said:


> Clarification: you will pay Wyndham extra money to convert points you already own from one flavor to another.  The amount of extra money might be less than buying points from them you don't already own.  That's not the same as "a discount" in my book.  And, you can bet your bottom dollar that the "discount" to do this with resale points will still be a pretty penny.
> 
> 
> Well, duh.  Deeded owners have voting rights with their HOA, and property rights that convey with the deed.  CWA "members" do not have voting or property rights.  This is, essentially, the Diamond model, and it's brilliant...for the developer.
> ...



Brian (bnoble), Very well stated. Thank you.

rrlongwell states "rumor" verses "during a sales presentation I was told" which seems to give it more credence than being "sales puffery" or "if their lips were moving, ....". 

As for more than 1 Wyndham sales site using the same markley, they do have email between offices, personnel transfers, organized in a corporate structure with regional offices. I bet they even have contests for effective new sales lines/tactics. The sales agents are all FULLY COMMISSIONED licensed real estate persons - there is no check at the end of their pay period unless YOU buy something. They get one 45-60 minute presentation to you and on the law of averages, the longer YOU sit across from them, the more likely YOU will BUY something and they will get paid.

They are NOT in the education business or customer satisfaction business. And after 7 calendar days, they got their money (which was formerly, YOUR money). Their floor time is limited; there are only so many guests who showup per day; there are NO CALL BACKS from you if you change your answer from a "no" to a "yes".

It is not a job I would want.


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## pacodemountainside (Mar 31, 2012)

Hey Viv

Right on.

A couple nits. CWA owners do elect Board unlike VOI which is appointed by Wyndham. Meeting is this May 2, 2012 in Orlando.

Some states like Colorado and I think Florida do require Developer sales people to be licensed real estate broker, but most do not. In Colorado it takes same broker license to sell time share as million dollar mansion. This raises an interesting point . When only  one real estate broker,  they are effectively acting as transaction broker . While higher responsibility to Developer who compensates they still have an obligation to disclose material facts to buyer. To me this would include same 154K points he is selling for around $25K is readily available on resale market for a couple bucks. Like if he knew a boiler factory or Burger King  was going up on vacant lot next door to house he was selling you!


As far as training the following salespesron help wanted ad says it all. Do not know how to post  click on  prior  post  so reprinted. 



Does following sound familar? Quote from Wyndham web site!


Sales representatives focus on relationship building as they provide our guests the opportunity to purchase world class destinations. Imagine a job that allows you to be…

Part Real Estate Professional


Part Sales Representative


Part Travel Agent


100% Dream Broker

A Day in the Life
After a morning meeting with the sales force, your tour time has arrived. Now is your time to shine. After you greet your guest, you will spend the next 15 minutes or so talking with them about their vacations (i.e. have they vacationed in the area before?; where do they like to go?; what do they like to do?; what is their dream vacation?) and about their family (i.e. how long have they been married?; do they have children?; grandchildren?) After rapport building with our guests, it is time to spend the next 45 minutes discussing why we vacation, the value offered by ClubWyndham Plus and the advantages of purchasing today.
It is time to incorporate one of our sales tools. You'll take your guests to a plasma screen display full of resorts, travel packages, and the travel calculator. After building their own travel budget, you head for our luxurious condominiums for a tour of several units. Shortly after the tour, you have arrived at the sales center and will propose a vacation package

custom matched to the budget and desires of your couple. As you move thru the process, you will call your manager to the table to assist with closing the sale.
Your couple decides to purchase!! Break out the cheese, crackers, and sparkling grape juice to celebrate. Then take them to the Quality Service Team to finalize all the paperwork. (Top performers will sell 1 - 2 families per week)

Benefits and Compensation
An awesome benefits package in less than 31 days!! This includes your choice of comprehensive health plans (medical, dental, vision, life, AD&D, short & long term disability, etc.) 401K plan (after 1 year), tuition reimbursement, attraction discounts, plus much more!!


Can you see yourself making $65,000, $80,000, or $100,000? We've got a plan and support team to help you meet your goals. 



Requirements 
Skills Required


Let us help you make the most of your dynamic, enthusiastic personality in a fun and inviting environment. Our top associates share a passion for winning, a healthy team spirit, and desire to improve the world one vacation at a time. The successful sales representatives sell with passion, have self discipline, practice listening skills, show mastery of the sales process, and focus on individual & team goals.

COMMENTS: Let's see 15 minutes to become BFF, 45 minutes to unload perfumed manure from brief case, 1 hour to tour and an hour to present  the deal. Adds up to 3 hours.
To sell 1 or 2 a week does that mean seeing 3-4 people six days a week?

Statistics I have seen indicate 1 out 15-20+ buy! 









Yes,  the salesperson assigned to work you over and become BFF  for today is not a former used car salesperson or diabarred attorney hired yesterday. They are very well trained, in fact you will find former Wyndham sales people everywhere as they are so well trained and in demand.. A personal experince was at AVP a few years ago. While checking in a group of about 20 was also. They were there for a weeks training before launching sales at new LBM resort.

You will also find   www.mywyndhamlawsuit.com   very informative. Jim, a former salesman tells all. He details how felon  on probation who was sales manager in Branson  and created the "Take Away" and did such a good job promoted to new resort in San Antinio to fire up staff there!

He posts the 30 rules/code of conduct from Fairfield circa 2005 which are really used to give new salespeople ideas. No, there are not a couple local  rouges but a system that encourages making sales, however.
 More likely one or two good  guys/gals.  That is why one hears the same horse manure from Hawaii to Florida.

Indeed after person does not buy sales person is debriefed  and new reason for not buying sent to corporate to develop  new BS to counter with.
Think I cannot afford-do small EOY, need to talk with lawyer-you are over 25, are you too wimpy  to make  decision, want to check resales- scammer that will steal your money,  have to think about-you owe it to your family cheap skate, don't like resort-we have 71 others and RCI thousands


It definitely is not a job I would take. As a basically truthful accounting type  I  would probably be fired the first day.

As far as education,  forums like this  and Wyndam one that is down  and owner seminars like ones offered at Meadows in Branson by salaried owners relation person like Nancy Solcum are the way to go. She offers three or 4 days a week generally covering topics that come  up when one has a lot of points, uses RCI, points pool,  etc. and is available for personal questions afterwards. This where I learned about cancel and rebook, RCI 28K deposits and other fine points.


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