# [2011] planning24 days in Europe Help!! need advice



## Teddie2 (Aug 14, 2011)

I am planning our first and who knows may be only trip to europe. We are flying into London and want to see some of the city and the only other thing that is a must is a stop in Paris for several days as we are attempting to go to the French open --a dream of my husband's.  We would like to see Switzerland and I am really wanting to see the alps but the alps as I see extend through to Italy and so thinking about going through the alps and visiting different cities but not sure which ...would like to see Venice.. but we are concerned about not trying to do tooo much.  Any suggestions for a reasonable itinerary that won't make us feel like if its Tuesday it must be Belgium  If anyone knows of any good sites for me to explore that would be helpful.  We are trying to do this as inexpensively as possible without feeling like we are camping out 
I have seen prices on some home away apts which look good --again any and all suggestions will be appreciated --I have 9 months to plan and at this point all we have are out airline tickets!


----------



## Passepartout (Aug 14, 2011)

I'd suggest you get a map of Europe. Stick it on the wall with a 'white board' to write notes on. Mark the 'must do' places along with dates. Then figure out how you are going to get between these places and add in how long you have and what attractions are between the places. Use a good guidebook- many people like Lonely Planet, others like Rick Steves. Go to a bookstore and compare them. Fill in the available time spaces with things you want to see/do. An organized tour will show you more and take care of the logistics of transportation, meals and hotels, but you lose the spontaneity of being able to go where/when you want. 

In 3 weeks you can't do justice to more than 5-6 places (imo). You can see more, but afterwards it will just be a blur. If you are going to London, then Paris, for a first trip it might make some sense to concentrate on England and France. Perhaps if you have a car, add some time in Holland and Belgium. Leave Italy, Germany, Austria, Switzerland  for another trip(s).

Once you go to Europe, fear not. You'll be back. Especially as your reported location is NY, you are close enough that when a good airfare sale pops up, you can almost go to Europe for a long weekend. I'm envious!

Sounds like a fun adventure. Enjoy it- the planning is the best part!

Jim Ricks


----------



## Conan (Aug 14, 2011)

One possibility is to fly into London, and after some days there take the channel tunnel train to Paris--easier than flying, probably cheaper, and a good experience.

After Paris, pick up a rental car and drive East to Annecy, France.  It's worth seeing and from there about 30 minutes drive to Geneva.  Then either direct to Milan either driving or by train, or go Geneva to Lucerne or Zurich to Milan.  (I don't know the details there, we've only trained from Lucerne to Milan.). Geneva is culturally Swiss-French while Zurich is Swiss-German.  Milan has a great church and the Last Supper and from there it's an easy train ride to Venice.  A logical addition after that would be Florence/Siena or depending on the time of year you could stop in the lake country between Switzerland and Milan but you might have trouble fitting either of those in.


----------



## vettebuf (Aug 15, 2011)

Jim,

Even though I'm not the OP, thanks for the advice. 

We're doing a Med cruise (RT Barcelona) in October and I just haven't been that successful flipping through the travel books I bought.


----------



## Passepartout (Aug 15, 2011)

vettebuf said:


> We're doing a Med cruise (RT Barcelona) in October and I just haven't been that successful flipping through the travel books I bought.



We did that on last Summer's TUG cruise and enjoyed it so much that we went back to Barcelona last May. We went for a week TS stay pre-cruise in Tarragona (Cambrils actually). I recommend it. Imo, the Malaga area is too far away, but ymmv. Barcelona itself is a wonderful city with lots to do/see. There's a Rick Steves' episode and a Globe Trekker City Guide- both on PBS and I think viewable online- of Barcelona and vicinity.

We would go back again in a minute. PM me if you want any specifics. 

Jim


----------



## Teddie2 (Aug 15, 2011)

thanks for the suggestions..we were debating train vrs plane between places it seems that plane can be cheaper but not always faster since you come right into the cities any thoughts on that.. We would love to do a train ride through the alps


----------



## stmartinfan (Aug 16, 2011)

We're done apartment rentals in several European cities - Paris, London, Barcelona - and really enjoyed them.  It probably doesn't make sense unless you're staying for several days in a location, but we really liked being the space and being able to shop for some meals in the local stores.  Also, we were traveling with our kids, and in most European hotels, that means you need 2 rooms.

We'd usually start by spending time with a city guidebook to determine which area of the city we wanted to be in, and then started looking for places in that area.  It's worth spending time online really researching the options and reading reviews; we also opted to rent most often from agencies that managed multiple apartments because we liked having the local contact.


----------



## Carolinian (Aug 18, 2011)

London to Paris can best be done through the Channel Tunnel by rail.  Many of the LCC's fly into an airport far to the north of Paris.

From Paris, I would take the train through Dijon to Lausanne, Switzerland.  Both Dijon and Lausanne make great stops.  From Lausanne, take the train along the lakeshore and into the Alps to Brig to pick up the Glacier Express, the best of the scenic train lines through the Alps.  You can go straight on east from there or backtrack southwest to do the first leg of the route. I skipped the first leg and just went straight on east.  The Glacier Express ends at St. Moritz, from where you can take a train south to connect to the Milan to Venice main line. Verona, scene of Romeo and Juliet, and Padova are worthwhile stops along that route.  That takes you into Venice, a great city.  It you still have time, you can take the train on to Rome.

Your TATL (trans-Alantic) flights should be done as an ''open jaw'', into London and out of Venice or Rome.  That also saves you the horrendous APD tax charged on departures from the UK as well as the time it takes to backtrack.

If Rome is too much, at least Verona has an ancient Roman collesium that is more complete than the one in Rome itself.

The Glacier Express has a good website at www.glacierexpress.ch .  Both the Austrian and German railroads have good websites for train schedules throughout Europe.



Teddie2 said:


> I am planning our first and who knows may be only trip to europe. We are flying into London and want to see some of the city and the only other thing that is a must is a stop in Paris for several days as we are attempting to go to the French open --a dream of my husband's.  We would like to see Switzerland and I am really wanting to see the alps but the alps as I see extend through to Italy and so thinking about going through the alps and visiting different cities but not sure which ...would like to see Venice.. but we are concerned about not trying to do tooo much.  Any suggestions for a reasonable itinerary that won't make us feel like if its Tuesday it must be Belgium  If anyone knows of any good sites for me to explore that would be helpful.  We are trying to do this as inexpensively as possible without feeling like we are camping out
> I have seen prices on some home away apts which look good --again any and all suggestions will be appreciated --I have 9 months to plan and at this point all we have are out airline tickets!


----------



## Conan (Aug 18, 2011)

If you can get to Padova (Padua), get advance timed tickets to the Scrovegni Chapel. It's 30 minutes you'll never forget.

http://www.cappelladegliscrovegni.it/tnweb/inizioPrenotazione?lang=en


----------



## beejaybeeohio (Aug 18, 2011)

*Past & future Itineraries*

Thought I'd share some of our longer Europe itineraries doing various combos of t/s, hotels & cruises. Day trips from t/s base.

July-Aug 2007: 4 nites in Paris, EasyJet to Rome w/ 4 nites there, Easy Jet to Basel picked up rental car.  From there drove to Villars sur Orlon for a week in a timeshare.  Then drove to Maria Alm Austria for a week at Marco Polo Club Alpina t/s. Dropped off rental car at Munich for a 350 fee & flew home.

May 2009: 1 week at our Fitzpatrick's Castle t/s.  AerLingus to Lisbon.  Picked up rental car, drove to McDonald's Villacana t/s in Estepona Spain for a week.  Drove to Villamoura Portugal for another week's t/s stay at Four Seasons Villamoura. Overnite in Lisbon after dropping off rental car.  Overnite in Paris before flying home.

June-July 2010: 2 nites in London, 14 day Baltic cruise. BritishAir to Budapest.  Picked up rental car for a week at Club Dobogomajor t/s, returned car then 2 nites in Budapest before flying home.

Upcoming:  3 nites in Rome, 12 day Rome-Venice Med cruise, fly to CDG get rental car. Drive to Chateau du Maulmont t/s for week.  Drive to Versailles & overnite there.  Return rental car.  Take THALYS train to Brussels (fell in love w/ Belgium after a port day in Bruges).  3 nites there.  Fly home first class AirCanada!!!

Pre t/s in '98, we flew into Frankfurt and stayed 3 nites in Germany in various locations, 2 in  Innsbruck Austria & 2 in Salzburg, 6 in Switzerland (Chur,Grindelwald & Zermatt), then back to Germany for 4 more nites (Frieburg, along the Rhine & Dusseldorf) then flew home.

Planning is so much fun, and now w/ GPS, it's hard to get lost (altho we still manage at least once a trip).


----------



## x3 skier (Aug 18, 2011)

Took the Glacier Express a few years ago and really enjoyed it. You can make good trip via Eurostar London Paris, TGV from Paris to many cities, Glacier Express and by rail in Italy looping around Florence, Rome and Venice (or just Venice).

Grand European Tours has such an tour and would be good outline for stops. 

OTOH, I would pick cities and spend three or four days (or more). From Paris and London there are many day trips possible. Another thought is eastern Europe is generally less expensive so Prague, etc could be a good choice. 

Cheers


----------



## Teddie2 (Aug 25, 2011)

Thank you all so much.. it all sounds so wonderful  I must say my head is spinning --I have been reading and posting and the more I discover the more I feel like even with 24 days I don't have enough time!   
We fly into London so will spend the first few days with family there the maybe three or four days to explore some of London...then on to Paris with 3 days to explore and then two days at the French Open... after that its uncertain we have now decided we really want to see Tuscany and Venice and I so thinking to see the alps via Italy and possibly the Dolimites... I may only have 12 days after Paris to do Venice, Tuscany area and the Alps/Dolimites --every time I read about a city I want to go there and well its not possible to do all... considering what we are trying to do any suggestions on this itinerary would be appreciated.. I am going to check out the glacier express as suggested... the area around the matterhorn and mont blanc look good as does the area around the Dolimites....ahh decisions!! but good ones:whoopie:


----------



## Rene McDaniel (Aug 30, 2011)

Teddie2 said:


> .... we have now decided we really want to see Tuscany and Venice and I so thinking to see the alps via Italy and possibly the Dolomites... I may only have 12 days after Paris to do Venice, Tuscany area and the Alps/Dolimites --every time I read about a city I want to go there and well its not possible to do all...



Yes, you should be able to do all 3 pretty easily - Venice, the Dolomites, and Florence or some part of Tuscany.  They are not that far apart.

We have done timeshare exchanges to Italy twice now.  In 2003, we spent 10 days in Rome followed by a timeshare exchange 1 hour outside of Venice (near Padua). We had rented a car and flew in/out from Rome.  From Padua we were able to make daytrips to Venice, Verona, the Dolomites, Lake Garda + 1-overnight in a big loop that went to Florence (full day there) then to Pisa (overnight), then got up the next morning & did an all-day 5 city tour of the Cinque Terre (that Rick Steves made famous).  Then, back to our timeshare arriving around midnight. We did a lot of driving on that trip, and we came back totally exhausted, but it was an awesome vacation.

Four years later we exchanged to Italy again, this time during Spring Break (2 weeks including Easter).  The traffic was SO MUCH WORSE than it had been 4 years earlier at the end of June.  We stayed in the same timeshare outside Rome for a week (yuck, won't do THAT again).  Then, the 2nd week in a timeshare 30 minutes south of Florence.  We had to rent a car again, since with timeshares on the outskirts, you need a car, plus we had our 2 daughters with us (both trips), & train tix times 4 are almost as expensive as renting a car.  We were able to do lots of daytrips throughout Tuscany this time -- Lucca, Greve in Chianti, and several days this time in Florence.  We also made another daytrip to Venice. It was about a 2 hour drive to Venice.  Not bad, except I had a car accident  , so they added the 1,500 Euro deductible onto the cost of the rental car.  Ouch!  Should have purchased their "premium" insurance.  Plus, we had to get a new rental car, but that only ate up about an hour of our vacation.  Then, we were on our way again, but my husband had to drive the rest of the trip & I put one of my girls up in the front seat with him & rode in the back.

That said, driving in Italy is really stressful.  The roads are super-small & the Italians are crazy drivers, and they constantly pass/overtake each other, even though they are going 60 mph coming straight at you.  Crazy. Crazy.  I recommend taking the trains when you are in Italy.  Driving in France we did not find to be stressful, and pretty similar to the US.  Although a good friend of mine travelling in the south of France was hit head-on by a drunken Frenchman at 10 o'clock on a Sunday morning.  Her rental Mercedes was totalled, but she had gotten full coverage, so it was towed & they gave her another one.  Luckily, neither she or the man who ran the stop sign were injured, and she is fluent in French, which was important for dealing with the french police.  Another person I know killed a rental car in Italy by putting the wrong fuel into the gas tank.  Regular into a diesel, or vice versa.  Either way, had to have the car towed back & get a replacement.

If it is just you and your spouse, your travels will be way less complicated if you book hotel rooms in the city and just take the trains.  Especially since this is your first trip.  Trains are more relaxing, whereas driving in Europe is not relaxing at all.  It definitely adds a certain amount of stress -- difficulty understanding foreign signs, difficult to find parking, pay for parking, find your way.  It can even be impossible to pay for gas with your debit or credit card if you don't have a chip built into it like the Europeans do.  Add in gasoline prices that are twice as high as ours + expensive Italian tolls for the Superstrada.  With only 2 traveling it would be MUCH cheaper, and much more scenic to just relax, enjoy the sights, and let someone else get you there.

--- Rene


----------



## Teddie2 (Sep 4, 2011)

You have all been very helpful.. we are down to this right now
London 6 days (two with family four to tour city sights)
Paris 5 days (two at the French Open three to see sights)
On to the Alps--here is where it gets murkey and I need help

Then to Venice 2 days
Tuscany 6 days 
Back to London (one day)
Fly home  

We are doing most of this by train and will rent a car only in Tuscany because we want to see the countryside.  We may spend a few days in Florence or just stay at a place more central and go back to Florence for some of the tours that we saw and have been mentioned by tuggers

The question I have is the best way to go through the alps where to stay etc if doing all this by train --we have 4 days to go across from Paris to Venice through the ALPS --I am guessing there is a lot of connecting to do so we are trying not to jump around too much as we are already taking in a lot.  We looked into the glacier express but there is a lot of connecting in and out of cities to get to the city where it begins and ends... so we were thinking of another shorter train ride mentioned... but also thought that just the train from one city to another might also give us the sights and views and we can then spend a few days in the city.  We love to hike but not looking to do anything major as we have only a few days and don't want to pack a lot of gear and warm clothing.  Any additional thoughts and suggestions would be helpful.. thanks all!


----------



## hibbeln (Sep 4, 2011)

Look at the Jungfrau area of Switzerland.  There are little hamlets where you take a cable car high up to a hamlet and stay in an inn basically dangling off the edge of a cliff.  Nothing much to do except hike and breath in the scenery.  It would either be heaven on earth or hell on earth to you.  But have a look at it!   

We stayed in the Garmisch-Partenkirchen area of Germany (in the Bavarian Alps, right on the border of Austria) because we got an easy summer exchange there.  It is mostly a ski town, though popular with Germans for the hiking and mountain air.  It is easy for Americans to travel there because English is widely spoken due to a US Army recreation base being there.  We enjoyed it immensely in August for travelilng up the nearby peaks, rowing on alpine lakes, going down sommerrondelbahns, hiking (nothing too hard and nothing that required special equipment, but still beautiful!), also it is very easy to visit these places from there :  Neuschwanstein, Hohenschwangau, the Weisskirche, Ettal Monastery, Oberammergau, etc etc.  You do need a car, but you can EASILY get that for a few days in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and the driving is super super easy.  Just a thought for a place with an easy exchange that worked for us!
Also, you could stay in the Salzburg, Austria area and visit Salzburg (a lovely town!) and also the Halstatt area and the Salzkammergut lake area of Austria, and Berchtesgaden, Germany, as well as nearby hikes, ice caves, salt mines....it would be GREAT for 4-5 days and this area you would be able to get around by train and bus easily (though a car would let you move faster). 
Probably none of this makes any sense to you, but just search for images of these areas and see if anything grabs your attention.
ALSO.....flying between cities in Europe can often be far cheaper and gobble up MUCh less of your vacation time than using a train!  My SIL is travelling from Zurich to Vienna and they had planned to take a train, which would have been a very long ride (I think 8-10 hours)(and not through very scenic areas) and they were delighted to find a much cheaper flight that took less than an hour!
ALSO:  Maybe pick up the Rick Steve's books on the Alps (I think he has Germany, and Austria, and Switzerland....check all the alpine countries).  He is helpful in that he has suggested itineraries and one of them might work very well for you.  He tends to move around pretty quickly, so you might find part of an itinerary and just stretch your times in each place.


----------



## Teddie2 (Sep 4, 2011)

All good advice..  We have two of rick steve's books and they are great... I will look into the one on the alps
Most likely won't go as far east as Germany but willl check out the flights as suggested from Paris vrs train.. we are getting a eurail pass so may be cheaper by train and the ride will give us some scenic views and a chance to sit and rest from all the running around My H finds driving in a strange place stressful and I don't drive much at all so we would prefer trains as much as possible... but will drive around TUscany.  
I will check out that place on the cliff you mentioned now one night there would be amazing 
thanks for all!!


----------



## cgeidl (Mar 16, 2012)

*Try the country after London/Paris*

I would recommend you try driving after Paris. Fly to Munich and pick up a car. rentals are reasonable in Germany. Visit the country small towns . garmisch is a great area where you coud get an apartment for a week and see lots of interesting places.Make a cicular tour and spend time driving into Switzerland am
nd ack to Munich to fly home or get a flight to Venice and then fly home from there. As you would see lots of Alps from germany,Venice would be my choice.
Have fun and apartments work well in traveling.


----------



## PStreet1 (Mar 16, 2012)

Be aware that luggage is sometimes a problem on European trains.  You can't get it overhead.  That means putting in at the back of the car with other people's luggage, and that's not a very secure spot for it.  I'd take a bicycle lock and hook a lot of bags together; it's tough to steal a batch of bags.


----------



## MaryH (Mar 17, 2012)

My first trip to Europe with my sister in '85 involved the following:
Fly into London
5 days in London
2 days In Edinburgh for the tatoo
4 days in Paris
2 days in Nice/Monte Carlo
3 days in Florence
1 day in Venice since it was the regatta and we could not get room easily
4 days in in Rome
fly back to London and connect to fly out from london


----------



## cgeidl (Apr 28, 2012)

*Like your plan*

Seems doable and leaves you have enough time to lt things soak in.I like the Germany car rental pick up. Be careful in renting cars and take pictures odf any scrathes or dents and save your final gas fill up receipt.Garmisch is a favorite area of ours and we have been about dozen times.I think the week rental would be good and you would be a visitor versus just a tourist.From Garmisch you could easily visit many interesting small towns,Munich and Salzburg. If you drive the freeway in Austria getna sticker for the freeways. Have fun !!


----------



## DeniseM (Apr 28, 2012)

Please note that this question is 8 mos. old...


----------



## WinniWoman (Apr 28, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> I'd suggest you get a map of Europe. Stick it on the wall with a 'white board' to write notes on. Mark the 'must do' places along with dates. Then figure out how you are going to get between these places and add in how long you have and what attractions are between the places. Use a good guidebook- many people like Lonely Planet, others like Rick Steves. Go to a bookstore and compare them. Fill in the available time spaces with things you want to see/do. An organized tour will show you more and take care of the logistics of transportation, meals and hotels, but you lose the spontaneity of being able to go where/when you want.
> 
> In 3 weeks you can't do justice to more than 5-6 places (imo). You can see more, but afterwards it will just be a blur. If you are going to London, then Paris, for a first trip it might make some sense to concentrate on England and France. Perhaps if you have a car, add some time in Holland and Belgium. Leave Italy, Germany, Austria, Switzerland  for another trip(s).
> Once you go to Europe, fear not. You'll be back. Especially as your reported location is NY, you are close enough that when a good airfare sale pops up, you can almost go to Europe for a long weekend. I'm envious!
> ...



I live in NY and our flight for our trip to the UK this June was damn expensive!


----------



## Carolinian (Apr 28, 2012)

mpumilia said:


> I live in NY and our flight for our trip to the UK this June was damn expensive!



Part of the reason for that is the huge APD tax (Gordon Brown's ''Save the Planet'' tax) on departures from London.  To save on that, buy a seperate ticket to Dublin on an LCC from London, and buy your TATL ticket open jaw flying into London but out of Dublin.  You can even set it a day later to see Dublin.  That way you pay the low short haul UK APD instead of the huge long haul APD.  An added benefit is that you can preclear US customs in Dublin, which is a breaze and save the hassle in NYC.


----------



## WinniWoman (Apr 29, 2012)

Carolinian said:


> Part of the reason for that is the huge APD tax (Gordon Brown's ''Save the Planet'' tax) on departures from London.  To save on that, buy a seperate ticket to Dublin on an LCC from London, and buy your TATL ticket open jaw flying into London but out of Dublin.  You can even set it a day later to see Dublin.  That way you pay the low short haul UK APD instead of the huge long haul APD.  An added benefit is that you can preclear US customs in Dublin, which is a breaze and save the hassle in NYC.



Sorry. I should have better info. We are actually flying direct from Newark, NJ to Edinburgh, Scotland.


----------

