# air miles plus co-pays for seat upgrades



## pgnewarkboy (Apr 26, 2012)

There is an interesting article in the "ombudsman" section of Conde Naste Traveller this month. A couple booked a trip (I think to SF) and used their United Air miles to upgrade to business class. When they arrived at the airport they were told they had to pay an additional $900 per ticket. They were not previously told at the time of reservation there was an additional fee. United answers the Ombudsman (who took the case) that their rules concerning "co-pays" were placed on their website and the fliers had to check the web site to find out there would be a charge. The burden was on the fliers according to United even though the airline had many opportunities to advise them of the fee at the time of booking. Bottom line is that the couple was stuck and paid the fees to take their already arranged trip. Ombudsman could not get United to reimburse the charges. Apparently, co-pays for upgrades are really the "in thing" with many airlines.

Do you pay co-pays in addition to airmiles for upgrades??


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## dougp26364 (Apr 26, 2012)

No I don't in miles plus a co-pay to bump up to business or first class. I'm sure it's worth it to some but not to me. 

I do occasionally pay a flat fee (no miles spent) to upgrade to stretch seating on Frontier or United, depending on the price, equipement and length of flight.


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## pwrshift (Apr 26, 2012)

I think the difference comes from the fact many FF point users booked the cheapest economy seats and not full fare economy and then expected to just use additional miles to upgrade where the price difference was extremely high.  In the old days it worked. 

When I first got into FF tickets someone advised me never to use miles to upgrade as the best deals were getting business class seats on miles, not a mixture of cash and miles.  So far, i believe there's no co-pay on seats using just FF miles.  The co-pay program stinks IMO but what can you expect of airlines that even charge you for a pillow these days?


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## Blues (Apr 26, 2012)

pwrshift said:


> I think the difference comes from the fact many FF point users booked the cheapest economy seats and not full fare economy and then expected to just use additional miles to upgrade where the price difference was extremely high.  In the old days it worked.



I understand that you can't use the cheapest class seat as the basis for an upgrade.  In that case, though, United shouldn't have allowed the transaction to go through and taken the customer's FF miles.  The fact that they did so, implying a completed transaction, without advising the customer that they'd owe more money, smacks of fraud to me.  I've never heard of this before, and it stinks.

-Bob


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## MaryH (Apr 26, 2012)

If there is a copay they should have charged the co-pay at the time of the miles so it is full disclosure and the users are aware of it.  I know for international flights some airlines charege a copay if you use a upgrade instrument but have a low class fare.


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## Pat H (Apr 26, 2012)

Makes no sense. $900 copay to upgrade 2 domestic coach tickets to business? There's something not right with this story. Maybe it was international? In that case it could cost anywhere from $300-$550/person to upgrade. When I have thought about upgrading with miles, I always got a screen that told me the cost.


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## x3 skier (Apr 26, 2012)

Fares that can be upgraded to First Class from Coach are cheaper than full Coach but definitely not the cheapest. Never heard of a "copay" for these type of fares. 

The only thing I could fathom in the OP's post is the travelers bought a non-eligible fare and the $900 was the difference in fares. Once that was paid they got their first class seat upgrade with miles. For United to not make that clear at the original purchase smacks of deceptive practices at best and fraud at worst. 

I have used for miles to guarantee upgrades on long haul flights. Latest was CVG-LAS that was cheaper by $1200 for the difference in "list price" for two of us in First Class. 

Cheers


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## Ken555 (Apr 26, 2012)

I called Delta yesterday in another attempt to use my miles there, and priced an upgrade capable ticket to Europe in business. The ticket cost was $4200ish plus 50,000 miles for business round trip. I haven't bought, but compared that to the $1200 or less the same coach seat would cost at the lowest current price on the same itinerary from Delta. I can't say that business isn't worth $4200, since without the upgrade it would be even more expensive, but I'm not convinced it's worth it to me. I will likely try to find another partner carrier to get a roundtrip business seat for 100,000 miles instead.


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## x3 skier (Apr 26, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> I called Delta yesterday in another attempt to use my miles there, and priced an upgrade capable ticket to Europe in business. The ticket cost was $4200ish plus 50,000 miles for business round trip. I haven't bought, but compared that to the $1200 or less the same coach seat would cost at the lowest current price on the same itinerary from Delta. I can't say that business isn't worth $4200, since without the upgrade it would be even more expensive, but I'm not convinced it's worth it to me. I will likely try to find another partner carrier to get a roundtrip business seat for 100,000 miles instead.



Best of luck. The best I managed was 150K for CVG-LHR for a trip in Oct. 

Delta usually has a sale for Business seats to Europe for around $2000 over Thanksgiving weekend. Last two years I took advantage to visit Copenhagen and then Lisbon/ Madrid. 

Cheers


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## Ken555 (Apr 27, 2012)

x3 skier said:


> Best of luck. The best I managed was 150K for CVG-LHR for a trip in Oct.
> 
> Delta usually has a sale for Business seats to Europe for around $2000 over Thanksgiving weekend. Last two years I took advantage to visit Copenhagen and then Lisbon/ Madrid.
> 
> Cheers



I got one on AF using Delta miles last year from LAX-DUS returning FCO-LAX (though I was switched to Alitalia nonstop instead on the return) at 100,000 miles. It can be done, though usually I plan further in advance than I am this year.

This year I need to be in London in October for a conference, so am trying to combine it with time in Europe for fun.


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## SuzanneSLO (Apr 27, 2012)

We use miles + co-pay to upgrade all the time.  Each airline differs as to what is an upgradeable fare, how much the co-pay is and when you pay it.  For AA, any fare is generally upgradeable, so we upgraded a $120 RT fare with 30,000 miles plus $150.   Totally worth it to us.

Upgrade space is often much easier to find than award space, which is another reason we use it so often.  -- Suzanne


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## pgnewarkboy (Apr 28, 2012)

SuzanneSLO said:


> We use miles + co-pay to upgrade all the time.  Each airline differs as to what is an upgradeable fare, how much the co-pay is and when you pay it.  For AA, any fare is generally upgradeable, so we upgraded a $120 RT fare with 30,000 miles plus $150.   Totally worth it to us.
> 
> Upgrade space is often much easier to find than award space, which is another reason we use it so often.  -- Suzanne



 That is a great tip.


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## Ken555 (Apr 28, 2012)

SuzanneSLO said:


> We use miles + co-pay to upgrade all the time.  Each airline differs as to what is an upgradeable fare, how much the co-pay is and when you pay it.  For AA, any fare is generally upgradeable, so we upgraded a $120 RT fare with 30,000 miles plus $150.   Totally worth it to us.
> 
> Upgrade space is often much easier to find than award space, which is another reason we use it so often.  -- Suzanne



Sounds good, but how far can you get on a $120 fare? ~350 miles? This doesn't sound like a long distance flight to begin with, which means it's not long, and I think many people can handle coach for short flights. Or am I missing something?


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## SuzanneSLO (May 1, 2012)

Ken555 said:


> Sounds good, but how far can you get on a $120 fare? ~350 miles? This doesn't sound like a long distance flight to begin with, which means it's not long, and I think many people can handle coach for short flights. Or am I missing something?



Often, price has no relation to distance.  The flight for which we paid $120 was a RT from LAX to MCO (Orlando), although it as several years ago.  We were very happy with our upgrade.  -- Suzanne


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## lvhmbh (May 2, 2012)

We almost always upgrade using miles.  We use AA as much as we can as they have, IMO, one of the better policies.  Yes, there is a copay but it is worth it to us.  We buy the very cheapest ticket and then upgrade.  We tried using our miles (AMEX) with Delta to fly from Miami to San Francisco but were told that "Delta will not allow you to upgrade on a nonstop flight across the country"    What the hey?  I told them that that is one of the reasons people don't like Delta.  We did fly Business to Europe with them and concluded we would not attempt to upgrade with them as we won't fly them again if we can help it.  We used our AMEX miles towards Upper Class on Virgin to London for September.


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