# Finally pulled the trigger and went with United FF



## MOXJO7282 (Oct 26, 2012)

We've finally have exhausted our 1million plus AA FF miles and with the splitting of Marriott and AA after numerous years of successful FF NY - Maui experiences we have decided to go with United. 

It was between United vs. Southwest and in the end we decided to go with United because our main use will still be NY-Maui so we thought it was best to go with one of the big carriers and United was offering 50k miles and better pricing in a comparison I was doing at the time. 

I don't need Maui tickets until August 2013 so until then I'm in accumulation mode with the 50k+ already and 240k pending from a MAR points conversions. Only time will tell but I know the good old days of getting 4 1st class saver seats are gone(did do it 4.5 times though) so I'm realistic about how good United will be.


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## DebBrown (Oct 26, 2012)

We use both United and AA ff miles.  I can't say that either is better or worse for Hawaii flights.  The dynamics are always changing.  My experience has been that both airlines allot a limited number of first class tickets on the flights.  As always, booking as early as possible is best.

Deb


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## Ken555 (Oct 26, 2012)

Also, United recently changed from 767s to 757s from LAX to Maui (and Honolulu, I believe). I had preferred them for the last few years since they still flew 767s.


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## Carolinian (Oct 26, 2012)

Don't know about the Hawaii but for TATL, AA clearly has the best inventory, UA is rather far back in second, and DL the worst.

When CO and UA merged, they really took away many of the elite ff perks.  I had been a CO gold, but with the new system stinking as bad as it did, I bailed out to AA where I am currently a Plat.  For mid level elites, AA gives 100% bonus miles compared to stingy UA which cut theirs to 50% about a year ago.  I think DL is still at 100%, too.  For lower tier elites, UA cut the free bag allowance from 2 to 1, so on TATL flights their silver elites have exactly the same allowance as non-elites.  AA is still 2 free bags, and I think DL is too.

With AA, any elite can book exit row seats, but at UA only mid-tier and above can do so.  

If you do not have elite status, UA may not be so bad but they have really made themselves uncompetitve for those with elite status.

At least UA does not gouge you for a horrendous number of miles for an award ticket as DL too often does.


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 17, 2012)

Well our first experience securing UA tickets was a good one so far. We scored JFK-LAX for 7/1/13 - 7/13/13 for $336 each. 

Bundled that with a discounted premium car rental for a total of $1954 for the 4 of us. 

So that is about $600 for a premium car which is a very good price and the $336 airfare is very cheap from the research I did so overall from a pricing standpoint we're pleased.  

Disappointed though to hear they moved from 767 to 757s LAX-OGG because 757 1st class is only marginally better than coach but hopefully by then they will have upgraded their 757 by 2014.  

Do they use the 767 to Maui through any hub? Those are the planes to get on with the almost flat sleepers. We got these 4 of our 5 1st class trips to Maui and they were awesome. Your vacation starts as soon as you get on the plane. 

The 757 not so much and I really wouldn't spend the 1st class miles again on a 757 1st class with the old seats. They only have a few inches of recline and more importantly not leg lifts which is truly the key to comfort if you can get your feet raised.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 17, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> It was between United vs. Southwest and in the end we decided to go with United because our main use will still be NY-Maui


 
Unless you know something I don't SWA just wouldn't ever get you to Maui

Had good luck booking SWA awards, rarely needed to pay the 2 X rate

IMHO SWA is the most agressive in their use em or lose em policies

Most airlines allow you to bank awards as long as you are still earning, keeping unused SWA awards alive can be expensive $$$

Was a Plat CO None Pass long before the merger, when CO moved to the Star Aliance had better luck booking United Flights than CO flights


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 17, 2012)

Rent_Share said:


> Unless you know something I don't SWA just wouldn't ever get you to Maui



I was just going to use SWA to get to the west coast and go from there but at the end of the day the best use of miles is to Hawaii or Europe so I wanted to have a carrier that could handle that.

American was good to us but the Marriott split forced my hand because MAR points is my biggest source of miles so I need to be aligned with someone who is aligned with them.


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## Ken555 (Nov 17, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Disappointed though to hear they moved from 767 to 757s LAX-OGG because 757 1st class is only marginally better than coach but hopefully by then they will have upgraded their 757 by 2014.
> 
> Do they use the 767 to Maui through any hub? Those are the planes to get on with the almost flat sleepers. We got these 4 of our 5 1st class trips to Maui and they were awesome. Your vacation starts as soon as you get on the plane.
> 
> The 757 not so much and I really wouldn't spend the 1st class miles again on a 757 1st class with the old seats. They only have a few inches of recline and more importantly not leg lifts which is truly the key to comfort if you can get your feet raised.



I believe they still offer nonstops from the Midwest/east coast to Honoululu on larger planes. You'll have to do a little searching to find out the details, but that should take you less than five minutes...


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## momeason (Nov 17, 2012)

We use the Capital One Venture Card with 2 points earned per dollar on every purchase. We fly with whoever has the best price...no conditions to meet. It is much easier. Southwest is easy also when their flights are available. We do have remaining miles with US Air, United and Southwest. Southwest is the only Airline CC we still have is Southwest because we earned 2 RT flights for signing up in the Spring.

I do not like being locked in to one airline reward program. Capital One is flexible and a piece of cake to redeem travel rewards.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 17, 2012)

If somebody else is paying for the ticket, purchase based cards do not work


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## Carolinian (Nov 18, 2012)

While my main credit card that I use is a Cap One Visa, and I just added a Cap One MC, I do not even bother with their milage program.  I also have a no annual fee US Bank Visa that has a milage program attached, but I never even bother to look at how many miles it may have.

The reason that actual airline miles are far superior is the elite perks, that those third party milage programs do not have.

For example, as an AA plat, I can reserve premium coach seats like exit row and bulkhead seats.  I get priority boarding and can check in at the first or business class counter which has a shorter line.  I get priority lines for security at many airports, and that can save lots of time at places like LHR.  I get two free checked bags.  I get double miles on all my AA or partner flights.  Best of all, I get free lounge access at all airports on the way when flying an international itinerary, and since international is mostly what I fly, that means on virtually all of my flights.  I also get frequent free first class upgrades on the domestic legs of my flights.  None of those third party milage programs can touch any of those perks.




momeason said:


> We use the Capital One Venture Card with 2 points earned per dollar on every purchase. We fly with whoever has the best price...no conditions to meet. It is much easier. Southwest is easy also when their flights are available. We do have remaining miles with US Air, United and Southwest. Southwest is the only Airline CC we still have is Southwest because we earned 2 RT flights for signing up in the Spring.
> 
> I do not like being locked in to one airline reward program. Capital One is flexible and a piece of cake to redeem travel rewards.


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## MichaelColey (Nov 18, 2012)

Carolinian said:


> I also get frequent free first class upgrades on the domestic legs of my flights.


Is that from accumulation of 500-mile upgrades earned?  You only earn enough free upgrades to upgrade about 20% of the time (four 500 stickers per 10k miles flown), but if you have as large of an internation vs. domestic mix as you do, I can see how that would help.

I'm on the opposite end.  I seldom have paid international travel (I use FF miles for that, instead, as it's almost always my best use of the miles and international trips are always pleasure trips for me), so I don't have anywhere near enough stickers for domestic upgrades.  I do buy some ($30 per 500 miles is reasonable) and between my earned and bought ones, I pick and choose which routes are worth upgrading.  I typically won't upgrade a short flight, nor will I upgrade one that's just over the 500 mile threshold (like a 1055 DFW-LAS flight that takes 3 stickers).

I miss my nearly 2 years of being EXP on AA, as I had truly free upgrades on virtually every domestic flight.  I also had a nearly 100% free upgrade history on US Airways, but First is nowhere near as nice.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 18, 2012)

I hope you are refering to virtual stickers, the only thing that needs to be on paper with the airlines are free drink vouchers (for those of us stuck in coach Carolinian)

Reminds me of the early loyalty programs at Western Airlines (The only way to fly) punched a mini time card in a punchclock as you were passing through the jetway


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## Carolinian (Nov 18, 2012)

MichaelColey said:


> Is that from accumulation of 500-mile upgrades earned?  You only earn enough free upgrades to upgrade about 20% of the time (four 500 stickers per 10k miles flown), but if you have as large of an internation vs. domestic mix as you do, I can see how that would help.
> 
> I'm on the opposite end.  I seldom have paid international travel (I use FF miles for that, instead, as it's almost always my best use of the miles and international trips are always pleasure trips for me), so I don't have anywhere near enough stickers for domestic upgrades.  I do buy some ($30 per 500 miles is reasonable) and between my earned and bought ones, I pick and choose which routes are worth upgrading.  I typically won't upgrade a short flight, nor will I upgrade one that's just over the 500 mile threshold (like a 1055 DFW-LAS flight that takes 3 stickers).
> 
> I miss my nearly 2 years of being EXP on AA, as I had truly free upgrades on virtually every domestic flight.  I also had a nearly 100% free upgrade history on US Airways, but First is nowhere near as nice.



Yes, I almost never travel domestic.  My travel is mostly TATL with some intra-Europe.  One TATL R/T gets me four stickers, and that is enough for my domestic legs to be upgraded on the next R/T.  Depending which gateway I use, I might even have some left over.  I hate JFK, so it is mostly ORD or MIA that I use as a gateway.  I have an upcoming trip using DFW, so that will take 3 stickers for my upgrade.  MIA is my gateway of preference.

I have an upcoming TATL flight next month that I just bought (~$800 from IST) and have free upgrades to the new Main Cabin Extra on both TATL legs, exit rows on the BA intra-Europe legs, and have my requests in for the upgrades on the domestic AA legs.  Every upgrade request I have made with AA has come through so far, and I have scored an Op Up on a BA operated TATL leg to their World Traveler Plus.  I am hoping that AA's new Main Cabin Extra will be at the same level.


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## grupp (Nov 27, 2012)

I use a several progarms depending on where I am flying. Get most of my miles from signing up for Credit Card promotions.  

Southwest is the good for flying to Colorado for my ski trips.

United/US Airways is good for flying my daughter home from college

AA is good for Hawaii and San Juan as well as some other trips.

Delta is good for nothing. 


Gary


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## momeason (Nov 30, 2012)

Carolinian said:


> While my main credit card that I use is a Cap One Visa, and I just added a Cap One MC, I do not even bother with their milage program.  I also have a no annual fee US Bank Visa that has a milage program attached, but I never even bother to look at how many miles it may have.
> 
> The reason that actual airline miles are far superior is the elite perks, that those third party milage programs do not have.
> 
> For example, as an AA plat, I can reserve premium coach seats like exit row and bulkhead seats.  I get priority boarding and can check in at the first or business class counter which has a shorter line.  I get priority lines for security at many airports, and that can save lots of time at places like LHR.  I get two free checked bags.  I get double miles on all my AA or partner flights.  Best of all, I get free lounge access at all airports on the way when flying an international itinerary, and since international is mostly what I fly, that means on virtually all of my flights.  I also get frequent free first class upgrades on the domestic legs of my flights.  None of those third party milage programs can touch any of those perks.



You should check how many Cap 1 rewards you have. You can redeem them for maintenance fees, parking fees, hotel charges and exchange fees. If you do not use them you are throwing away money. 
It sounds like you fly a lot. Those of us who do not fly very often like the flexibility of no black out dates and getting the best schedule and price on each flight. When we use FF miles, we often have to fly strange routes to make it work. 
Cap one works for this infrequent flyer, frequent vacationer. I love to save money conveniently. Cap one works for this bargain hunter.
I have a friend who always introduces me to her friends as the one to ask if you want to know how to get something at the best price. I take that as a compliment. 
If I did not find budget ways to travel, I would not be able to travel and visit so many interesting places. Vacationing 13 weeks in timesharing this year. 5 flights for the 2 of us all year. The rest was driving my car.
We have lots of time, not so much money..retired and loving it.


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## Carolinian (Dec 2, 2012)

One other consideration on UA's ff program that I think is a big negative is that mile earning in Star Alliance is based on the operating carrier, not the airline whose flight code is on your ticket.  With all of the codeshares out there these days, that can make a big difference.  So, for long flights, the best bet is to stick to UA metal if you can.  US would be second choice, as I don't think they have any less than 100% earning classes.  With other Star carriers, watch out!  Many of them have recently starting gives 50% or 25% or even 0% of actual miles on certain fare classes.  That includes many of their European partners and also Air Canada.  If your UA coded flight is actually on AC, Lufthansa, etc. metal, you might get a lot fewer miles than you were expecting.

At least with One World (AA) and Sky Team (DL), it is the airline code on the ticket that controls, not the operating carrier.  So even when BA was shortchanging on miles on BA coded tickets, something they have recently stopped doing, if the ticket was coded as an AA flight, you still got full miles.

Interestingly while many Star carriers have moved to less than full miles on many cheaper fares, One World carriers have moved the opposite direction to giving full miles on all fares.

Worse still, Star last year changed the rules after the fact on many ticket purchases.  Usually when earning charts change, they only impact tickets purchased after the change was announced, not previously purchased tickets.  In the Fall of 2011, a number of Star carriers reduced the miles earned on various classes of tickets and applied that change to tickets already purchased.  That move was really underhanded.  My wife was one of those caught up in that flimflam.  I had bought her a TATL ticket with two domestic segments on US, and the TATL and intra-Europe legs on Lufthansa, which at the time it was purchased carried full miles on all legs.  With the changes, by the time she actually flew it, she got 0% miles on the Lufthansa legs but 100% on the US legs, which were the shortest ones.  At 2 cents a mile, we got cheated out of $200+ value of ff miles.

Another very annoying thing with Star is that until just after you pull the trigger to buy the ticket, you do not know the fare class on the operating carrier.  You may know it is H class on UA, and that on LH's chart they have an H class in about the same position, but when you can access the ticket on the LH site they may say that for them it is an L class.  With the new charts with many less than 100% earning rates, that now makes it a real crap shoot on how many miles you will get on flights operated by a Star Alliance partner.


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## dundey (Dec 8, 2012)

Tell me about it.
I'm a very frequent business travel flyer from Newark, NJ.   CO had a great FF program and the best perks in the industry from my experience.  Since the merge with UA, it has all gone the other way (towards UA's always mediocre program).
Given that CO / UA have a virtual monopoly on flights out of Newark, I don't have much choice but to stay with them unfortunately.  I still get upgraded on many domestic flights, but the service, perks and pleasure of flying on CO are all gone.   Its really a shame.


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## Carolinian (Dec 25, 2012)

If you are elite level, the bonus miles you earn also make a difference.

For example, I am an AA Plat, the middle tier, and comparing that tier's bonus miles on flights, here is how it stacks up:
AA - 100% bouns
DL - 100% bonus
US - 75% bonus
UA - 50% bonus

Although AA and DL look comparable, that is deceiving because DL too often charges inflated numbers of miles to book award flights, while AA offers reduced milage requirements for many off season flights (for instance 40K instead of 60K to Europe).

In terms of bonus mile earning combined with usage value, at my elite level, AA is head and shoulders above everyone else.  That is why I did a challenge to move my elite status over from UA when they trashed their ff program after the CO merger.  My previious elite status had actually been with CO, but the merger downgraded the previous programs of both airlines.


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