# Beach Place Tower - Unreasonable Housekeeping charges after checkout



## vns (Jan 14, 2019)

We were at the Beach place towers (2b2b full kitchen) a couple of weeks back and just realized our credit card is charged for $250 housekeeping fee after we had checked out.  When enquired, they said we had left the kitchen with food and unwashed pots/pans.  Is that a reason to charge such high fee ? I mean its a kitchen unit where food will likely be cooked/served and pots/pans used up. 

Has anyone else experienced this at Marriott resorts?  If so, what's the recourse ?


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## DeniseM (Jan 14, 2019)

Generally, there are written instructions in the unit that say that it is the _guest's responsibility_ to load the dishwasher and leave the kitchen clean.  This is the standard in the industry, so no, I don't believe you have any recourse.


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## ilene13 (Jan 14, 2019)

In all of the Marriott timeshares where we have stayed the “rules” state that the dirty dishes be placed in the dishwasher prior to check out and that it should be turned on.  It is also expected that all leftover food and garbage be disposed of prior to checkout.  IMHO it is not unreasonable to be charged a fee for leaving  the kitchen in disarray.  I’m sure that the $250 fee is addressed in the condo documents.


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## dima (Jan 15, 2019)

So, you left kitchen not cleaned...
Did you leave some tip and how much?
I am just curious if it was not good enough for housekeeping to clean it for you

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## Nonnie Capurro (Jan 15, 2019)

vns said:


> We were at the Beach place towers (2b2b full kitchen) a couple of weeks back and just realized our credit card is charged for $250 housekeeping fee after we had checked out.  When enquired, they said we had left the kitchen with food and unwashed pots/pans.  Is that a reason to charge such high fee ? I mean its a kitchen unit where food will likely be cooked/served and pots/pans used up.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this at Marriott resorts?  If so, what's the recourse ?


I have been time sharing in Hawaii since 1975.  Marriott owners since 2004.  We always put our towels in the bathtub and load and start the dishwasher on our way out the door on our last day.  We only leave unopened food in the fridge and leave a nice tip.  We have never been charged a fee for leaving an unnecessary mess.  Housekeeping  is a hard and thankless job.  They deserve a good tip for cleaning up after all of us.

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## csalter2 (Jan 15, 2019)

I must say that I believe $250 is excessive.  I have stayed at Ko Olina and have not always kept it spic and span. I have never been charged a fee of any kind.  Are you sure nothing was broken?


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 15, 2019)

I don't know if it's excessive or not, but, the instructions clearly say to put them in the dishwasher and start it. I suppose one of the problems with not doing so is they may not have enough time to make all the units ready for the next person if enough people didn't do so. Which is bad.


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## PaulaC (Jan 15, 2019)

In over 18 years of staying at Marriott properties, we have never been charged a cleaning fee.  However, we have always disposed of our leftover food, removed our trash and taken care of our dishes.  The housekeeping staff has a difficult job cleaning the units and getting them ready for the next guests and adding additional work could delay the unit being ready for the next guests.


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## pedro47 (Jan 15, 2019)

We have never been charged a housekeeping fee after over 25 years of timeshare traveling. But we do clean our villa, empty trash cans, prior to checkout and the kitchen area must passed the Commander-in-Chief tests  before we leave our villa.


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## PamMo (Jan 15, 2019)

$250 sounds excessive to me, especially if an end of stay cleaning fee wasn't spelled out clearly. I guess only the OP knows what condition the kitchen/unit was in when they left.


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## pedro47 (Jan 15, 2019)

Sound liked the MBP villa was left in a mess and it took housekeeping longer than normal to clean the villa. IMHO.

I also take dated photos of the villa before I checkout for my record; until I received the final bill from the hotel or timeshare resort. This is to avoid this problem.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jan 15, 2019)

vns said:


> We were at the Beach place towers (2b2b full kitchen) a couple of weeks back and just realized our credit card is charged for $250 housekeeping fee after we had checked out.  When enquired, they said we had left the kitchen with food and unwashed pots/pans.  Is that a reason to charge such high fee ? I mean its a kitchen unit where food will likely be cooked/served and pots/pans used up.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this at Marriott resorts?  If so, what's the recourse ?







We can debate all day long as to whether or not the charges are fair.   I guess my question to an experienced TUG member would be  "WHY would you leave the Villa in the description you described" ?



.


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## Passepartout (Jan 15, 2019)

OP can certainly object to management if they feel unjustly charged. I got a bill once for cleaning because 'The unit smelled of smoke'. I rebutted that no one in our party had smoked in years and that the report could not be accurate. The charge was removed. The OP will have better outcome contesting to mgmt than on TUG.

Whenever a lodging takes a card imprint, watch the account after you check out for mysterious charges.

Jim


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 15, 2019)

That is excessive.  I think my daughter-in-law pays that much each week to have their gigantic house cleaned, top to bottom.


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## Panina (Jan 15, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> That is excessive.  I think my daughter-in-law pays that much each week to have their gigantic house cleaned, top to bottom.


I would think excessive cleaning can put some employees in overtime as well as having a guests room not ready in time with the resort offering compensation to the guest.  Both take time and money as well as the headache of dealing with the delays.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 15, 2019)

It's a fee charged to Housekeeping on the books but it's not a standard "Cleaning Fee" - it's a penalty for when you fail to leave the unit in the condition that you're expected to leave it in. Usually those instructions, and the penalty warning which is meant to serve as a deterrent and not a cash-grab, are in the Welcome Packet that you get at check-in. We clean the kitchen emptying the fridge and turning on the dishwasher, leave all the towels and bed linens in piles in the foyer so they don't have far to carry them, put all the furniture back in its original place and make sure there's no trash left in the unit. If any sofabeds were used we leave those open so that they know they were used.

My only problem with these fees is that they're not consistently applied across the entire system which would go a long way towards Housekeeping being able to turn over the units for the next owners/guests in a timely manner.  But of course like Jim says, if you've left the unit in proper order then you should challenge the fee because it's not unheard of for entries to be keyed incorrectly and it could just be a mistake.


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## dgf15215 (Jan 15, 2019)

Jeez, I admit that I was not aware that a penalty could be applied for leaving a mess. OTOH, I'm pretty obsessive about leaving the place as close to clean as we found it and always, always tip the housekeeping staff well for our mid-stay cleaning as well as our exit cleaning. I swear they think that the cash is for leaving extra soap <g> based on the amount of soap and shampoo I have collected for charitable purposes over these many years. That being said, it has been some time since I've seen a notice indicating the cleaning expectations or even a list of items that we're responsible for. At BPT a few weeks ago they're down to a single, really large frying pan and no smaller Teflon one. So I can't entirely blame the original poster of this thread for not understanding the ground rules for occupancy.


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## Panina (Jan 15, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> Jeez, I admit that I was not aware that a penalty could be applied for leaving a mess. OTOH, I'm pretty obsessive about leaving the place as close to clean as we found it and always, always tip the housekeeping staff well for our mid-stay cleaning as well as our exit cleaning. I swear they think that the cash is for leaving extra soap <g> based on the amount of soap and shampoo I have collected for charitable purposes over these many years. That being said, it has been some time since I've seen a notice indicating the cleaning expectations or even a list of items that we're responsible for. At BPT a few weeks ago they're down to a single, really large frying pan and no smaller Teflon one. So I can't entirely blame the original poster of this thread for not understanding the ground rules for occupancy.


Leaving dirty pots unwashed, one, two, three or all ? I can understand a renter thinking it’s okay but a timeshare owner should educate themselves on the rules upon check in if they don’t know.  Leaving food behind, usually the better timeshares have a box for food bank donations or asking the staff if they want it is ok.  Wonder if the food left was open, that should never be left.


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## StevenTing (Jan 15, 2019)

I didn't know about these fees as well.  We used to leave food but found it better to find someone to take it before checkout.  Most of the time anything left is just tossed, even unopened items.

I used to give DW a hard time for taking sheets off the beds and tossing it all of the towels in the bath tub.  Guess I'll have to join her now.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 15, 2019)

Panina said:


> Leaving dirty pots unwashed, one, two, three or all ? I can understand a renter thinking it’s okay but a timeshare owner should educate themselves on the rules upon check in if they don’t know.  Leaving food behind, usually the better timeshares have a box for food bank donations or asking the staff if they want it is ok.  Wonder if the food left was open, that should never be left.



SurfWatch has a spot in the Reception area for local food bank donations. I'm sure I've seen them at other properties, too, but not sure enough to say exactly where.



StevenTing said:


> I didn't know about these fees as well.  We used to leave food but found it better to find someone to take it before checkout.  Most of the time anything left is just tossed, even unopened items.
> 
> I used to give DW a hard time for taking sheets off the beds and tossing it all of the towels in the bath tub.  Guess I'll have to join her now.



I started stripping the beds years ago, before timesharing, after reading the first of many message board posts about someone finding dirty sheets under the comforter in a bed that looked like it had been freshly made. That's not something I ever want to find but as someone who makes the bed every day wherever I'm sleeping, I can see how a housekeeper might look at a made bed and think it hasn't been slept in.

I love that (all?) Marriott properties now use the nice, crisp, white duvet covers but I even take those off and throw them in the dirty linens pile when I strip the beds, because I'm not tempting any housekeepers to save a step or two.


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## bazzap (Jan 15, 2019)

At Phuket Beach Club, they have regular initiatives for non-open, non-perishable food donations to be accepted in the lobby or left in the room with a paper provided explaining how it will benefit children from disadvantaged families at a local day centre.
At other times, these items are available on departure to housekeeping staff.
It is certainly my expectation anyway, that any other food is disposed of and pots/pans...etc washed before leaving.


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## VacationForever (Jan 15, 2019)

I have never seen the instructions as to what we need to do before we check out.  Where are the instructions found?


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## echino (Jan 15, 2019)

Normally I would put dishes in a dishwasher as instructed, but one time we were in a hurry to catch a plane and left dirty dishes in the sink. We left a $20 tip though. No charges.

But, we normally leave food in the fridge. I didn't know it could be a problem. I saw housekeeping staff cleaning other units and looking happy taking leftover food from those fridges.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 15, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> I have never seen the instructions as to what we need to do before we check out.  Where are the instructions found?



They are typically found in the instructions in the room (sometimes near the phone), or, the handouts they give you, or a book in the room. I have seen them in every MVCI I have ever stayed in (100+ trips). But you have to read the stuff. 

If we get to meet in in Palm Desert, I'll show you.


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## VacationForever (Jan 15, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> They are typically found in the instructions in the room (sometimes near the phone), or, the handouts they give you, or a book in the room. I have seen them in every MVCI I have ever stayed in (100+ trips). But you have to read the stuff.
> 
> If we get to meet in in Palm Desert, I'll show you.


Great!  We look forward to meeting up in February.  We ended up with 2 separate couples/friends joining us for a week each.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 15, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> Great!  We look forward to meeting up in February.  We ended up with 2 separate couples/friends joining us for a week each.



That's great! We had 6 staying with us in Hilton Head, always a good time.


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## pedro47 (Jan 15, 2019)

To the OP, I would protest the excess housekeeping fees with a telephone call and a written letter to the resort manager ASAP.

If I felt. I did not leave the villa in a total disarray.....IMHO.

Plus, I would notify my credit card carrier about this excessive housekeeping fee.


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## Safti (Jan 15, 2019)

We have never been charged in any of our timeshare stays. We have stayed at maybe 20 or 25 different timeshares and never been charged. We generally leave a $20 tip which is exactly what we leave ($3 per night) when we stay at a hotel. We always put our dishes in the dishwasher but don't generally start it. Reason why is that there is some debate about whether the cleaning staff likes to put other utensils in the dishwasher when they look through the cupboards.  I would like to believe that they do. We also put all of our used towels in the tub/shower.


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## dougp26364 (Jan 15, 2019)

Is the fee “excessive”? IMHO, yes. However, if the fee was “reasonable”, the chances guests would leave the kitchen would be considerably higher. At $250 guests will think twice before leaving a kitchen dirty or even trashed. It also makes it more likely units will be ready on time for the next guest if they can be reasonably certain the maids don’t have to perform excessive amounts of cleaning on every unit. On the back end it keeps MF’s lower when they don’t have to hire additional staff because there are penalties for leaving extra work for the maids.

Here’s the thing. Who reads these rules when they’re on vacation? It’s like all those terms of agreement we agree to with forums like this, Facebook et....... I’d like to think they’d be VERY upfront about potential large charges like this. We’ve been owners since 2001 and I’ve been vaguely aware there’s a charge if I leave my unit in disarray. But, I have occasionally forgotten some food, although not much, in the refrigerator when leaving for an airport at 3:00 AM. I generally have everything cleaned out before morning but, I know I’ve forgotten something because I recall it while sitting at the airport. I’ve also loaded, but forgot to start, the dishwasher in the morning. Maybe I’m fortunate to have not been charged a cleaning fee or maybe it wasn’t an egregious enough of an error to trigger the charge.


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## pedro47 (Jan 15, 2019)

My other question is did the OP  leaves his 2 bedroom villa at MBP Towers in total disarray ?

Was the OP charged a $125 housekeeping fees per villa cleaning fees or $250 for housekeeping cleaning fee to clean both sizes??


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 15, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> However, if the fee was “reasonable”, the chances guests would leave the kitchen would be considerably higher. At $250 guests will think twice before leaving a kitchen dirty or even trashed. It also makes it more likely units will be ready on time for the next guest if they can be reasonably certain the maids don’t have to perform excessive amounts of cleaning on every unit. On the back end it keeps MF’s lower when they don’t have to hire additional staff because there are penalties for leaving extra work for the maids.



Absolutely! I think the fee is very reasonable.



dougp26364 said:


> Here’s the thing. Who reads these rules when they’re on vacation? It’s like all those terms of agreement we agree to with forums like this, Facebook et....... I’d like to think they’d be VERY upfront about potential large charges like this.



I read them, it takes like a minute or two. That's how I know it's always disclosed. IMHO, clearly. But, no, they don't shock you until you read what they give you, etc. Some non MVCI have slightly different rules, so we of course follow those as well. It's very simple.


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## dgf15215 (Jan 15, 2019)

echino said:


> Normally I would put dishes in a dishwasher as instructed, but one time we were in a hurry to catch a plane and left dirty dishes in the sink. We left a $20 tip though. No charges.
> 
> But, we normally leave food in the fridge. I didn't know it could be a problem. I saw housekeeping staff cleaning other units and looking happy taking leftover food from those fridges.



I agree about leaving food that housekeeping might be able to take home, seems silly simply to toss it. Rarely have canned or boxed goods to throw in the food bank hamper, mostly fresh fruits, vegetables and sometimes cheese. As you might guess from my photo, I'm not inclined to leave behind baked goods <g>.


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## dgf15215 (Jan 15, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> They are typically found in the instructions in the room (sometimes near the phone), or, the handouts they give you, or a book in the room. I have seen them in every MVCI I have ever stayed in (100+ trips). But you have to read the stuff.
> 
> If we get to meet in in Palm Desert, I'll show you.



Steve - we looked the last two times we were at BPT and the binders that used to be there with all that information are gone. South Beach had very little that I remember, West Palm may have. I'll be sure to look and report in Ko'Olina this coming weekend.


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## VacationForever (Jan 15, 2019)

We usually clear up the kitchen and put dirty dishes in the dishwasher.  What we don't clear up is if there is unopened food, uncut fruits and eggs, we leave them in the refrigerator.  Sometimes we even leave an unopened bottle of wine in the room.  

There was once we left a baking pan in the sink which we had tried our best to scrub out the burnt spots but they could not be removed.  These days we make sure we bring aluminum foils and silicon baking liner to solve the problem of burnt pans.  We do frequently leave overflowing trash in the plastic bag on our way out the door.  Many timeshare places have no obvious garbage bins for us to take our trash out to.  That is our one complaint of timeshare.  We have never been charged a penalty like OP, and we do always leave a tip on the kitchen counter.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 15, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> Steve - we looked the last two times we were at BPT and the binders that used to be there with all that information are gone. South Beach had very little that I remember, West Palm may have. I'll be sure to look and report in Ko'Olina this coming weekend.



There is zero question it will be there. It's not always in the binders (if any), many times it's in the resort info paper they hand you which tells you where the trash bins are, checkout time, etc. At some non MVCI resorts, it's even been as a phone call which leaves you a message about what to do. If it ever was not there (say a non MVCI), I would contact the front desk and ask.

What generally seems to happen is non TS owners assume it's the same as any hotel, which it is not.


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## Nonnie Capurro (Jan 15, 2019)

We are currently staying at the Marriott Desert Springs Villas I and they no longer have binders in the Villas.  There was nothing in the resort information the desk gave us a check in.  I looked everywhere.   There is a Villa inventory on the inside of a door in a kitchen cabinet. I think they're trying to get rid of paper..
We know the rules because we started buying timeshares in 1975.  Perhaps it's worth looking on the website.  It's easier to clean up and start the dishwasher on the way out the door in addition to leaving a good tip.


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## Dean (Jan 15, 2019)

I've almost never seen an indication of dishwasher, empty trash and similar with Marriott.  Didn't this past trips to Aruba and we saw 5 units (4 studios and a 2 BR).  However we did all of those things as we normally do.  IMO for this charge to be appropriate there has to be extenuating circumstances like damages or leaving the room absolutely filthy.  A few dishes and some food in the fridge is not worthy of this charge.  We often leave things in the fridge rather than throwing them away as sometimes the maids find them usable, depending on specifics of course.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 15, 2019)

Nonnie Capurro said:


> We are currently staying at the Marriott Desert Springs Villas I and they no longer have binders in the Villas.  There was nothing in the resort information the desk gave us a check in.  I looked everywhere.   There is a Villa inventory on the inside of a door in a kitchen cabinet. I think they're trying to get rid of paper..
> We know the rules because we started buying timeshares in 1975.  Perhaps it's worth looking on the website.  It's easier to clean up and start the dishwasher on the way out the door in addition to leaving a good tip.



I'll be there in a couple weeks, will see. But I can tell you I have never once not seen it. I have no idea how people can say they have never seen it, unless, they simply don't read things. I know you tried, but I don't understand the others posting here. I suppose it could be a this year change (was there last year). We've stayed at close to half of all MVCI resorts. It has been in every one of them, including our last one, Surfwatch.

Out of curiosity, I will post a picture of what I see (assuming I do) about checkout.  I have a note in my phone.


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## Nonnie Capurro (Jan 15, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> I'll be there in a couple weeks, will see. But I can tell you I have never once not seen it. I have no idea how people can say they have never seen it, unless, they simply don't read things. I know you tried, but I don't understand the others posting here. I suppose it could be a this year change (was there last year). We've stayed at close to half of all MVCI resorts. It has been in every one of them, including our last one, Surfwatch.


We stayed at our home resort in Maui, a fixed week 3 bed through the 22nd and again no binder.  I look forward to what you find on your visit to tPalm Desert in a few weeks.
They were here in the past but haven't noticed them recently.  Again we know what to do as old timer's but feel bad for the new kid's starting out.

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## hangloose (Jan 15, 2019)

We always clean up prior to existing our timeshare.  This includes all dirty towels in a pile in the tubs, all trash taken out, and dishwasher running with any last minute dirty dishes.  We also count our towels to make sure we return all bath & pool towels.  

While we have seen the checkout instructions printed in many MVCI timeshares, but not all.   I see the lost pool towel fee paper in many also.  

We cleanup not necessarily because of any potential fees, but rather to help other owners get into their villas on time.  It is wonderful when you have a long day of travel, arrive early prior to normal check-in, and can get unpacked and into your villa early.


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## vns (Jan 15, 2019)

Thank you for all your responses.  We are new to timeshare (just about a year now), and if it is indeed in the books about food and dishes, I would say it was a very costly learning/mistake on our part !  We had a few unopened stuff in the fridge and some unwashed pots and pans in the sink.  No damages to anything in the suite nor did we leave it in a disarray.  I'll also remember to leave a tip for the House keeping in the future.


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## pedro47 (Jan 16, 2019)

vns, please called the resort manager  about your excessive housekeeping fees and your credit card carrier ASAP. 

This is a suggestion Only. Good Luck.


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## NboroGirl (Jan 16, 2019)

Although I have always, always done those things, it's only the past few years I've seen notices requesting we do those things upon vacating the villa.  However, I do not ever recall seeing a penalty if those things were not done.  Maybe I just never paid attention since we have always loaded and ran the dishwasher, taken out the trash, etc.  Is the fee indicated on the same notice?


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## AJCts411 (Jan 16, 2019)

So...cleaning up for the housekeeper? My point is that for sanitary reasons, housekeeping should be responsible for cleaning the kitchenware, plates, utensils, etc.. to ensure proper state/local sanitary regulations and conditions.  And secondly IMO what I can call "normal use", well that also should be up to housekeeping not the guests.  Now I get tiding up, I do it all the time, but "cleaning" that is what housekeeping is paid to do.  Can't comment on the $250 charge, don;t know the circumstances, but there must be a reason like smoking in a non-smoking...


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## bazzap (Jan 16, 2019)

AJCts411 said:


> So...cleaning up for the housekeeper? My point is that for sanitary reasons, housekeeping should be responsible for cleaning the kitchenware, plates, utensils, etc.. to ensure proper state/local sanitary regulations and conditions.  And secondly IMO what I can call "normal use", well that also should be up to housekeeping not the guests.  Now I get tiding up, I do it all the time, but "cleaning" that is what housekeeping is paid to do.  Can't comment on the $250 charge, don;t know the circumstances, but there must be a reason like smoking in a non-smoking...


Surely owners/guests loading and running dishwashers with all kitchenware, plates, utensils etc before departure will ensure proper state/local sanitary regulations and conditions?


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## Big Matt (Jan 16, 2019)

Houskeeping mostly vacuums, changes the linens, cleans the bathrooms and kitchen surfaces and does quality control.  Taking out the trash is part of it unless it is a total mess.

I would suggest that they may have confused your unit with another one.  I would call them, ask for confirmation about why you were charged and confirm that it matches your recollection.  I have absolutely been charged for things that I didn't buy while at timeshares, but never something like this.


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## csalter2 (Jan 16, 2019)

I am sorry. I should not have to worry if you loaded the dishwasher the right way and if pots and pans were put into the dishwasher correctly.  We pay maintenance fees that help to pay for housekeeping services.   That should really be expected of them as if you were in a hotel room. Those who rent from Marriott don’t have that responsibility.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 16, 2019)

We aren't using the second bedroom here at Ocean Pointe.  Perhaps I should put a note on the bed, saying it was unused?  

I generally do not strip the beds, but we do leave towels in the tub.  I also make sure every dish is washed, including the coffee pot, basket filter, etc., which is in the running dishwasher as we leave.  

I love Marriott resorts, and Ocean Pointe's updates are beautiful.  The salespeople aren't going to get us on the phone, no matter how hard they try.  Our phones are all unplugged.  

We head to Crystal Shores on Friday.  I feel blessed to get the opportunity to stay in these gorgeous places.


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## AJCts411 (Jan 16, 2019)

bazzap said:


> Surely owners/guests loading and running dishwashers with all kitchenware, plates, utensils etc before departure will ensure proper state/local sanitary regulations and conditions?



In one TS I rented, there were instructions, don;t recall exactly how it was worded, to put all used dishes etc in the dishwasher everything used, even if you cleaned them, in the dishwasher but do not start...local health regulations.


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## bazzap (Jan 16, 2019)

csalter2 said:


> I am sorry. I should not have to worry if you loaded the dishwasher the right way and if pots and pans were put into the dishwasher correctly.  We pay maintenance fees that help to pay for housekeeping services.   That should really be expected of them as if you were in a hotel room. Those who rent from Marriott don’t have that responsibility.


Perhaps for those who rent from Marriott, expecting it to be used like a hotel room is reflected in the rental rate and this covers any extra housekeeping costs?
For owners, if housekeeping need to do any more than the basic standard of service by way of clearing up, washing up...etc in all units this would likely result in increased Maintenance Fees.
I would rather clear away / wash up myself, just as I would at home (I see MVC as a second home) and not have higher Maintenance Fees.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 16, 2019)

There is no binder in our Marriott's Ocean Pointe unit, just so you all know.  I looked around this morning and saw nothing here.


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## csalter2 (Jan 16, 2019)

bazzap said:


> Perhaps for those who rent from Marriott, expecting it to be used like a hotel room is reflected in the rental rate and this covers any extra housekeeping costs?
> For owners, if housekeeping need to do any more than the basic standard of service by way of clearing up, washing up...etc in all units this would likely result in increased Maintenance Fees.
> I would rather clear away / wash up myself, just as I would at home (I see MVC as a second home) and not have higher Maintenance Fees.



Yes, I considered what renters pay and our maintenance fees as well, but Marriott has received several thousands of dollars from those who did not buy resale.  However, my main point is that making sure that there should be a certain standard of cleanliness that each unit should have.  That needs to be monitored by Marriott and not by the person who stayed in the unit last.  Their housekeeping staff should be ensuring that those dishes are cleaned in the dishwasher.  I do put my things in the dishwasher, but if I do or don’t Marriott’s housekeeping staff should be going behind me to make sure it’s clean to the expected standard.


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## Panina (Jan 16, 2019)

I have notice on more then one occasion and at various resorts that when I check in and fill out a form containing my car info, it is listed on the form I will be charged x amount if I leave the unit late or x amount if they have to do excessive cleaning.  Usually you have to initial and sign.  How many do not read the form they are signing during check in?


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## pedro47 (Jan 16, 2019)

I can remember back twenty plus years ago;. you have to place all dirty dishes, silverware, pot & pans in the dishwasher & start it, next you had to strip the bed linen and places all dirty linen & towels in the bathroom.
Finally you had to take out the trash. 

Now all that has changed... Thanks you.

Back in the day there was no MasterCorp for housekeeping services. Every resort hired their own housekeeping staff.


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## Panina (Jan 16, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> I can remember back twenty plus years ago;. you have to place all dirty dishes, silverware, pot & pans in the dishwasher & start it, next you had to strip the bed linen and places all dirty linen & towels in the bathroom.
> Finally you had to take out the trash.
> 
> Now all that has changed... Thanks you.
> ...


Lots of timeshares still require what you listed.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 16, 2019)

Panina said:


> Lots of timeshares still require what you listed.


I think the differences are the ones that make you do a lot are often the one with laminate kitchen counters and have MFs around $400 for a 1 BR and $500 for a 2 BR vs the ones that charge $1000-$1400 for a typical 2 BR unit.  

The ones with the $700-900 per 2 BR are moving more and more to requiring less from the occupant, possibly based on feedback from exchangers or owners who are also use to staying at resorts that don't require the extra work.


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## Panina (Jan 16, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> I think the differences are the ones that make you do a lot are often the one with laminate kitchen counters and have MFs around $400 for a 1 BR and $500 for a 2 BR vs the ones that charge $1000-$1400 for a typical 2 BR unit.
> 
> The ones with the $700-900 per 2 BR are moving more and more to requiring less from the occupant, possibly based on feedback from exchangers or owners who are also use to staying at resorts that don't request the extra work.


I own a few that require you to put towels in tub, pull sheets, throw out garbage and they are upgraded in prime areas with high ratings.  I also have traded into some too.  If it’s a nice unit in a good place I don’t mind doing it.  It takes just a few minutes.

What the op described happened at a Marriott.  I doubt a high end resort like Marriott would charge an extra cleaning fee for no reason.  Either they were charged incorrectly and the cleaning fee should have been charged for another unit or it was left in disarray even though they don’t think it was.  

I would hope Marriott has time dated video photos to prove why excessive cleaning fees were charged showing them entering room with it showing the unit number. From now on I might just do that just in case I am incorrectly charged.


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## tschwa2 (Jan 16, 2019)

I was talking about stripping of the sheets something that was more common 20 years ago and you said lots of timeshares still have requirements including: place all dirty dishes, silverware, pot & pans in the dishwasher & start it, next you had to strip the bed linen and places all dirty linen & towels in the bathroom.
Finally you had to take out the trash.


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## Bob B (Jan 16, 2019)

I always throw out the garbage and recycling and pile the towels in/by the tub. I also load and run the dishwasher right before departure. Never, ever even thought of stripping the bedding.


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## Superchief (Jan 16, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> I can remember back twenty plus years ago;. you have to place all dirty dishes, silverware, pot & pans in the dishwasher & start it, next you had to strip the bed linen and places all dirty linen & towels in the bathroom.
> Finally you had to take out the trash.
> 
> Now all that has changed... Thanks you.
> ...


And you had to count every dish and silverware to make sure nothing was missing. I'm glad those days are gone, at least for Marriott. However, I am frequently finding that pots and pans or other items are missing when I check in, especially the non-stick pans


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## Dean (Jan 16, 2019)

Panina said:


> Lots of timeshares still require what you listed.


And some even more.  I too have done many a checklist for room items and had to turn them in.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 17, 2019)

If the charge was for what the OP says, it is unreasonable and unjustified.  We normally leave the unit in good condition, but never once in 30 years of timesharing have I seen "rules" that REQUIRE you to even do things like load the dishwasher and take out the trash.  That is a request to help housekeeping and not a requirement.  I once asked at a Marriott resort how many people actually did these things and was told maybe half of all guests.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 17, 2019)

BocaBoy said:


> If the charge was for what the OP says, it is unreasonable and unjustified.  We normally leave the unit in good condition, but never once in 30 years of timesharing have I seen "rules" that REQUIRE you to even do things like load the dishwasher and take out the trash.  That is a request to help housekeeping and not a requirement.  I once asked at a Marriott resort how many people actually did these things and was told maybe half of all guests.



This is a good point, the question is whether or not it's a requirement and not a suggestion. I will carefully read the wording when I get to DSV2, and I'll also ask the front desk what the policy actually is.


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## pedro47 (Jan 17, 2019)

I can remember reading something about about checking out instructions at SurfWatch in November 2018.

Was it in a binder?  I cannot remember .  We just telephone the front desk telling them,we were leaving  and left the villa keys on the kitchen counter top. SOP

To be honest, SurfWatch is an “Outstanding Resort.”  We hated to leave. I know that is not what this thread is about. Shame on me.


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## alchook (Jan 17, 2019)

This has been a really helpful thread.

I would agree that a $250 fee is unreasonable, and probably unenforceable unless it is clearly spelled out ahead of time, not merely buried in some documents. I was under the impression that that kind of fee was reserved for smoking in a unit, which I could understand.

I always run the dishwasher because that takes 2-3 hours, and I understand the rationale.

But I haven't been very conscientious about emptying the trash and refrigerator. First, I remember my sainted Irish Catholic mother telling me it is a mortal sin to discard perfectly good beer. And, frankly, dumping out trash seems to be a rather basic housekeeping function.


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## aka Julie (Jan 17, 2019)

I guess we're in the minority here.  When we bought our first Marriott over 20 years ago, there were instructions in the unit to load the dishwasher, strip sheets from beds, gather towels, empty refrigerator and trash.  We still do all that except I usually don't strip the sheets off the beds anymore.  We bought at Barony and there were instructions in the unit.  There also used to be an unit inventory card, especially the kitchen items.  We find this is hit and miss now as we stay at other MVC locations.  Wish there was some standard procedure across the board.  But of course this is Marriott and nothing seems to be standardized anymore.  Someplaces (I remember Monarch) have a binder with instructions on how to operate all appliances which is very detailed.  We've encountered this binder at a few other locations.  I guess we're the old guard that is rapidly dying off.


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

DeniseM said:


> Generally, there are written instructions in the unit that say that it is the _guest's responsibility_ to load the dishwasher and leave the kitchen clean.  This is the standard in the industry, so no, I don't believe you have any recourse.



Apparently Vistana is not following the industry standard.  I've owned Vistana since 2007 and that is not a Vistana requirement.


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## vacation dreaming (Jan 17, 2019)

I have learned from this thread as well.  I have owned Vistana since 2005.  In Maui, the only option for trash removal is calling housekeeping.  There were no instructions on how to leave the kitchen.  I always considered my stays to be more like staying in a hotel than a vacation rental requiring me to perform housekeeping.  I do not leave the place a mess, and I do leave at least $20tip at the end of the week, plus tip at the mid-week tidy.  I am happy that most resorts I visit now have food pantry options in the lobby but the first few years I would leave the food in hopes housekeeping could make use of it.  What I have learned from this site is to always start the dishwasher before I check out.  That makes sense from a timing perspective, but I must say, in the back of my mind, I had hoped that housekeeping would come through the kitchen and ensure that all dishes were washed, not rely on the guests as a matter of cleanliness.

I think the lesson I have learned is that all of the timeshares are not consistent in policies, and with Marriott taking over Vistana, expectations may change as well.  I think I have read that some locations don't even provide a mid-week tidy?  I do not have much experience with Marriott timeshares although I have rented a few, and recently purchased one, so I need to learn.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 17, 2019)

vacation dreaming said:


> I think the lesson I have learned is that all of the timeshares are not consistent in policies, and with Marriott taking over Vistana, expectations may change as well.  I think I have read that some locations don't even provide a mid-week tidy?  I do not have much experience with Marriott timeshares although I have rented a few, and recently purchased one, so I need to learn.



I have not received a mid week tidy in years, for a single week that is, in MVCI.


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## bazzap (Jan 17, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> I have not received a mid week tidy in years, for a single week that is, in MVCI.


It does vary by region.
We have a mid week tidy in Spain and a daily tidy in Phuket.


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## Steve Fatula (Jan 17, 2019)

bazzap said:


> It does vary by region.
> We have a mid week tidy in Spain and a daily tidy in Phuket.



Yep, I meant in the US, I did recall one in Spain.


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## Nonnie Capurro (Jan 17, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> I have not received a mid week tidy in years, for a single week that is, in MVCI.


We had one in Maui December 2018.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## davidvel (Jan 17, 2019)

According to our preferences email from Tiber Lodge, here is the cost for mid-week full cleaning, by size:
*Full Service: Villa cleaned, beds remade with fresh linens, towels replenished, all amenities re-stocked. 
Guest Unit    $30
1 Bedroom    $50
2 Bedroom    $90*

So, $250 for cleaning the kitchen is beyond excessive.


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## controller1 (Jan 17, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> I have not received a mid week tidy in years, for a single week that is, in MVCI.



Each Vistana resort provides a mid-week tidy if the timeshare is rented for seven days or more.


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## Dean (Jan 17, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> I have not received a mid week tidy in years, for a single week that is, in MVCI.


I think we've gotten them in HI and we definitely did in Aruba last week, I'm trying to recall if we did at Ocean Pointe.  Nothing for Orlando or SC (either location) that I recall and nothing for Legend's Edge.  d


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## SueDonJ (Jan 18, 2019)

Dean said:


> I think we've gotten them in HI and we definitely did in Aruba last week, I'm trying to recall if we did at Ocean Pointe.  Nothing for Orlando or SC (either location) that I recall and nothing for Legend's Edge.  d



_[Edited after responses below. Thanks!]_

I'm pretty sure if you're using Weeks for single-week stays, the Spain, France and Thailand resorts get some type of daily service, all of the Hawaii and Aruba resorts get mid-week tidy service, and the US mainland resorts don't get any service unless you schedule and pay extra for it. Using Weeks for multi-week stays in the same unit, you should get a full cleaning on the check-in/out day of each separate reservation.*

Using DC Points for a single reservation, the same schedule as above should apply for each 7 days of the stay. If you have to book consecutive reservations at the same resort in the same size/type unit using DC Points and they don't move you, they mostly try to follow the same schedule as if all nights were booked under the same reservation number but you might get lucky with a full cleaning on each check-in/out day of each reservation.*

* (Of course if they have to move you to a different unit on any scheduled check-out days, which can happen although they try to minimize moves, the new unit will be fully cleaned before you get into it.)

Cash stays and BONVoy (ugh!) Points stays get daily cleanings or tidy service but at most all Marriott properties, you can opt to get BV (again ugh! - is that what we're calling them?) Points in lieu of daily service.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 19, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> Spain resorts get mid-week tidy service


I think European properties also have daily HK?


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## bazzap (Jan 19, 2019)

dioxide45 said:


> I think European properties also have daily HK?


Well, they do come in daily for a few minutes at most essentially to make the bed and run the dishwasher if necessary.
This is a subject of debate right now amongst owners at Playa Andaluza (posted on a separate thread here on TUG), where housekeeping costs have increased almost 30% in the 2019 budget due to local legislation issues.
Many owners here would have preferred to see the option of ceasing this very limited complementary daily service and perhaps making it a chargeable option in order to keep MFs down.


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## Panina (Jan 19, 2019)

bazzap said:


> Well, they do come in daily for a few minutes at most essentially to make the bed and run the dishwasher if necessary.
> This is a subject of debate right now amongst owners at Playa Andaluza (posted on a separate thread here on TUG), where housekeeping costs have increased almost 30% in the 2019 budget due to local legislation issues.
> Many owners here would have preferred to see the option of ceasing this very limited complementary daily service and perhaps making it a chargeable option in order to keep MFs down.


I own a higher end timeshare where my mf is under $800.  No housekeeping is included but you have the option to opt in at different levels for a fee.  I chose daily garbage pickup and towel change for $40 a week, most owner do too.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 19, 2019)

bazzap said:


> It does vary by region.
> We have a mid week tidy in Spain and a daily tidy in Phuket.





bazzap said:


> Well, they do come in daily for a few minutes at most essentially to make the bed and run the dishwasher if necessary.
> This is a subject of debate right now amongst owners at Playa Andaluza (posted on a separate thread here on TUG), where housekeeping costs have increased almost 30% in the 2019 budget due to local legislation issues.
> Many owners here would have preferred to see the option of ceasing this very limited complementary daily service and perhaps making it a chargeable option in order to keep MFs down.



**************


dioxide45 said:


> I think European properties also have daily HK?



I thoughts so too until this thread. 

I seem to be confused by what's a "mid-week tidy" and what's "daily service," but if they're scheduled to come in every day I'm calling it "daily service." Editing my post about the Euro resorts, assuming France and Spain are the same?


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## bazzap (Jan 19, 2019)

SueDonJ said:


> **************
> 
> 
> I thoughts so too until this thread.
> ...


This may not be the very latest, but should give a fairly accurate picture of the service provided in Full Clean (weekly), Daily Tidy and Mid Week Clean in Europe.
This is from Club Son Antem, but as far as I can recall it is similar at the other European resorts.


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## Quilter (Jan 19, 2019)

vns said:


> . . . food will likely be cooked/served and pots/pans used up.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this at Marriott resorts?




Never experienced this.   

This last comment by the OP seems key.   I can not imagine all the pots/pans used up.   Does that mean they were in the sink and on counters?   If pots and pans were not routinely washed after meals does that mean dirty dishes were also in sink and on counter?  Garbage cans full?   Fridge full of partial used food?


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## Southerngirl528 (Jan 19, 2019)

Very interesting thread! Glad the OP posted, as I find it informative for certain.

As an owner of DVC for over 25 years and MMOC for almost 10, I cannot recall a time that we did not get a midweek tidy. BUT, I will say that I have to be careful not to leave the Room Occupied/Do Not Disturb sign on the door. I have done that accidentally as we often leave it out on our door, and did not get the scheduled "tidy" but a quick call to Housekeeping remedied that. 

My DH has always groused at me for tidying up the villa before leaving, as most have described. I just know these folks work awfully hard and even if there were no "tidy up" rules, I would still do so. I have not generally stripped the beds, but after reading a lot of input here, I think I will.   I have found the housekeeping staff in Napili/Lahaina towers to be exceptional. Better than DVC's honestly. I always tip them, and have been surprised to often find a very sweet thank you note from the staff person. 

One thing I really LOVE about MMOC at least, vs. DVC is that there is a trash/recycle room nearby so that when the trash is stuffed during our long stays, we can trot the stuff right down the hall and be rid of it!   There might be a DVC resort that has this, but I've never seen it in all my years.


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## davidvel (Jan 19, 2019)

We just received a free mid-week "tidy" at Timber Lodge in Tahoe, which is really just an exchange of towels and replenish of supplies.


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## controller1 (Jan 19, 2019)

To clarify my earlier posts about Vistana's mid-week tidy.  It replenishes supplies, trash is emptied, towels exchanged and the bed(s) is made (sheets are not changed).


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## Dean (Jan 19, 2019)

I'd contact the GM on this matter.  If they charged, I think it's very likely they have pictures to document.


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## BJRSanDiego (Jan 19, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> They are typically found in the instructions in the room (sometimes near the phone), or, the handouts they give you, or a book in the room. I have seen them in every MVCI I have ever stayed in (100+ trips). But you have to read the stuff.
> 
> If we get to meet in in Palm Desert, I'll show you.


I'll have to pay more attention to the handouts.

We almost always wash and put away all of our dishes.  A few times we have put them in the dishwasher and turned it on.  But in regards to the garbage and recyclables, we sometime leave them and sometimes not.  But we also leave a fairly generous tip.  $20 for a 1 BR and $20 plus $10 for a 2 BR lock-off or $30 for a regular 2 BR.  Perhaps that helps.


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## dougp26364 (Jan 19, 2019)

Dean said:


> I think we've gotten them in HI and we definitely did in Aruba last week, I'm trying to recall if we did at Ocean Pointe.  Nothing for Orlando or SC (either location) that I recall and nothing for Legend's Edge.  d



Ocean Pointe charges for any cleaning during a guests stay...... and it’s not nearly as reasonable as the prices listed for Timber Lodge above. 

We we’ve never received a mid week tidy service from any of the MVC resorts we’ve been to in the continental US. We’ll be at MOC next month. It will be interesting to see if we’re offered a mid week service. 

Personally, I do t want housekeeping in my unit during our stay. I’ve always been happy that MVC didn’t offer a mid week service. At resorts which do offer it, we put out the do not disturb sign. It never fails that housekeeping either knocks on the door or calls the room, which sort of defeats the purpose of telling them not to disturb us.


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## Dean (Jan 19, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> Ocean Pointe charges for any cleaning during a guests stay...... and it’s not nearly as reasonable as the prices listed for Timber Lodge above.
> 
> We we’ve never received a mid week tidy service from any of the MVC resorts we’ve been to in the continental US. We’ll be at MOC next month. It will be interesting to see if we’re offered a mid week service.
> 
> Personally, I do t want housekeeping in my unit during our stay. I’ve always been happy that MVC didn’t offer a mid week service. At resorts which do offer it, we put out the do not disturb sign. It never fails that housekeeping either knocks on the door or calls the room, which sort of defeats the purpose of telling them not to disturb us.


I couldn't recall about OP but I'm with you on not wanting people in my room during the stay.  I realize they have a legal right to do so and I want to be accommodating and helpful but my preference is no one there if I'm not there.  I also avoid valet parking where ever possible or the use of bell services.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 19, 2019)

dougp26364 said:


> We’ll be at MOC next month. It will be interesting to see if we’re offered a mid week service.


You will be.  It is standard at Maui Ocean Club and we have never not received it.  I am sure you can decline it if it is not something you want.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 19, 2019)

To the OP:  Are you sure the resort charged you $250?  Are you sure it's an actual charge and not just a deposit for the week that is still under your credit card as pending?  

I see the charge on my CC for $250 as pending, we checked out yesterday, so I assume that will disappear from my statement.  

I was careful to do absolutely everything I needed to do for checkout, and I left $20 for a tip.  I started the dishwasher, tidied everything, put towels in the tub, etc.  I think that charge will just disappear from my statement.  

If Marriott is in the habit of charging $250 to everyone who stays because they didn't polish the furniture, scrub the tiles, wash the inside of the refrigerator, etc., I think we ought to complain, but I don't think so.


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## bazzap (Jan 20, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> To the OP:  Are you sure the resort charged you $250?  Are you sure it's an actual charge and not just a deposit for the week that is still under your credit card as pending?
> 
> I see the charge on my CC for $250 as pending, we checked out yesterday, so I assume that will disappear from my statement.
> 
> ...


It is not unusual (although they have not always done it with us) for MVC resorts to put a hold on our credit card at check in to cover spend signed for to our unit during our stay.
They have never actually charged the deposit to our card for it to show on our account though.
(in the way some car rental companies charge the deposit and refund it after return with bo damage)


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## pedro47 (Jan 20, 2019)

I feel it is time for all of us to hear from the OP. IMHO.
Where are you vns?


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## Luckybee (Jan 20, 2019)

rickandcindy23 said:


> To the OP:  Are you sure the resort charged you $250?  Are you sure it's an actual charge and not just a deposit for the week that is still under your credit card as pending?
> 
> I see the charge on my CC for $250 as pending, we checked out yesterday, so I assume that will disappear from my statement.
> 
> ...



If you go back to the first post the op said that he enquired and confirmed it was a housekeeping fee.


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## pedro47 (Jan 20, 2019)

Sounds liked the OP was charged housekeeping fees of $125 for the  one bedroom villa with the full kitchen and living room and the OP was charged $125 for the studio size with the partial kitchen for a grand total $250.00. IMHO.


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## dgf15215 (Jan 21, 2019)

Dean said:


> I think we've gotten them in HI and we definitely did in Aruba last week, I'm trying to recall if we did at Ocean Pointe.  Nothing for Orlando or SC (either location) that I recall and nothing for Legend's Edge.  d



We got one at Beach Place during a 12-night stay in December. 

Am at KoOlina for 11 nights, then over to the Big Island for three. We're in a studio, nowhere is there any direction about what our responsibility might be upon leaving except for the beach towels. We haven't been here for a couple of years now but new is an instapot cooker and a British-style hot water electric kettle. My supposition is that this speaks to the importance of the Asian market to this property. I actually enjoy having the hot water kettle as I make my own pour-over coffee and used to have to boil water in the microwave. 

I am curious enough to check out what paperwork my wife did sign when checking in to see if there's any clause about our responsibility when leaving.


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## VacationForever (Jan 21, 2019)

dgf15215 said:


> Am at KoOlina for 11 nights, then over to the Big Island for three. We're in a studio, nowhere is there any direction about what our responsibility might be upon leaving except for the beach towels. We haven't been here for a couple of years now but new is an instapot cooker and a British-style hot water electric kettle. My supposition is that this speaks to the importance of the Asian market to this property.


I think you might not have realized that there is nothing Asian about Instantpot.  It is a combination of a slow cooker and a pressure cooker.  It is a Canadian creation.  We use it to make split pea soup and lentil soup.  If you are referring to the electric kettle, it is a British thing and not Asian.


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## Nonnie Capurro (Jan 21, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> I think you might not have realized that there is nothing Asian about Instantpot.  It is a combination of a slow cooker and a pressure cooker.  It is a Canadian creation.  We use it to make split pea soup and lentil soup.  If you are referring to the electric kettle, it is a British thing and not Asian.



I don't really care who invented instant pot and electric kettles.  They are both nice when you don't have a kitchen.


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## VacationForever (Jan 21, 2019)

Nonnie Capurro said:


> I don't really care who invented instant pot and electric kettles.  They are both nice when you don't have a kitchen.


You are missing the point of my reply.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 21, 2019)

Did the OP ever report back?


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## Inhislove (Jan 21, 2019)

This may be somewhat unrelated, but the Residence Inn next Harbour Lake tried to charge me an extra night on the basis that “luggage was found” in our unit at 2pm. The thing is- we had all our bags and had gone straight to a theme park after leaving the property at 11am. I knew we didn’t leave anything, and the charge was taken off at my insistence.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 21, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> You are missing the point of my reply.


The Hawaiian resorts used to offer rice cookers in the past to cater more to the Japanese clientele. Perhaps they have just changed those out for Instapots now that those are more mainstream. Though I think they are likely there still as a replacement for the rice cookers.


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## dgf15215 (Jan 22, 2019)

VacationForever said:


> I think you might not have realized that there is nothing Asian about Instantpot.  It is a combination of a slow cooker and a pressure cooker.  It is a Canadian creation.  We use it to make split pea soup and lentil soup.  If you are referring to the electric kettle, it is a British thing and not Asian.



I didn't suggest they were created in Asia, I assumed the electric kettle was British and but the Instapot I had no clue about, just figured it was a logical solution to provide a rice cooker as well as a generally popular cooking utensil. This evening around the grill there were a number of comments about the Instapot (actually an imitation Instapot) and some people had never seen one before. I think that tomorrow I'm going to go out and buy some rice, cilantro and scallions to make rice for a couple of upcoming meals.


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## pedro47 (Jan 22, 2019)

The OP has not reported back.


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## suzannesimon (Jan 22, 2019)

I think if there is a $250 charge for not cleaning properly, it should be on a notice somewhere on the wall, or at least mentioned in the resort information binder in the units.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 4, 2019)

As promised earlier, just got to DSV, took about 30 seconds to find the info. It's rarely in the same place as other Marriotts, ymmv. The above picture shows at this resort what book it is in, the bottom shows what it says about checkout. At Surfwatch, it was in the activites handout, so, not in any resort booklet there.


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## TravelTime (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> View attachment 10253
> 
> As promised earlier, just got to DSV, took about 30 seconds to find the info. It's rarely in the same place as other Marriotts, ymmv. The above picture shows at this resort what book it is in, the bottom shows what it says about checkout. At Surfwatch, it was in the activites handout, so, not in any resort booklet there.
> 
> View attachment 10252



They should disclose there is a check out fee if certain things are not done. The book does not say you MUST do this or get charged $250 (or any fee at all). When we last stayed at some MVCs, I do not recall being told I need to do anything special at checkout. Frankly, I assumed that with our housekeeping at check out, that the housekeeper would do what was needed to get the unit in shape for the next guests. 

We were not charged at checkout so I assume we left the units in acceptable condition. I do recall last time I stayed at Newport Coast that I cleaned out the refrigerator and put all the dishes in the dishwasher but no one told me to do it or I would be charged.

I am not opposed to having a charge if things are not left in a certain condition though. I just think it needs to be clearly disclosed. I think posting the kitchen rules in the kitchen would make sense as I never think to read the room guides although they could tell you to be sure to read it, I guess.


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## controller1 (Feb 4, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> They should disclose there is a check out fee if certain things are not done. The book does not say you MUST do this or get charged $250 (or any fee at all). When we last stayed at some MVCs, I do not recall being told I need to do anything special at checkout. Frankly, I assumed that with our housekeeping at check out, that the housekeeper would do what was needed to get the unit in shape for the next guests.
> 
> We were not charged at checkout so I assume we left the units in acceptable condition. I do recall last time I stayed at Newport Coast that I cleaned out the refrigerator and put all the dishes in the dishwasher but no one told me to do it or I would be charged.
> 
> I am not opposed to having a charge if things are not left in a certain condition though. I just think it needs to be clearly disclosed. I think posting the kitchen rules in the kitchen would make sense as I never think to read the room guides although they could tell you to be sure to read it, I guess.



I agree!

The booklet states "we ask you kindly help us conserve energy . . ."  I would not interpret this as being mandatory and certainly not to the point of having an extra charge for not loading the dishwasher and starting it any more than having my blinds/drapes open at 1:00 p.m. which is also in that same section.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 4, 2019)

controller1 said:


> I agree!
> 
> The booklet states "we ask you kindly help us conserve energy . . ."  I would not interpret this as being mandatory and certainly not to the point of having an extra charge for not loading the dishwasher and starting it any more than having my blinds/drapes open at 1:00 p.m. which is also in that same section.



The booklet says "Before checkout, load and start the dishwasher". Sounds like a requirement to me. The claim was DSV and many other places had no such notice. Yes, you have to actually read. No matter where they put it, you still have to read, no one can make you read (except via the technique noted below). Yes, every MVCI we have stayed in over 20 years we've seen the notice, though not in the same place. I was just posting to point out yet again, notice is there. For me, I don't want 10 different notices for things all over my villa. Takes away from the appeal. Like no pets, etc. The same claim can be made about any policy.

That being said, I do agree that a statement should be there about fee. I like what some resorts do, where you initial that you understand each policy during checkin. So, if it says please note if you don't do this you will get a fee, and you initial it, your problem. In that way, you have verified you have read it (and if you just initialed to make it faster without reading too bad). A notice does not make you read it. Keeps in room clutter away.

We should be good stewards. It takes very little time and effort.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 4, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I do recall last time I stayed at Newport Coast that I cleaned out the refrigerator and put all the dishes in the dishwasher but no one told me to do it or I would be charged.



So, are you claiming it's not there in Newport Coast, or just the fee aspect. Shall I post that one? I can't believe people don't read the info (whereever it is), not cover to cover. It's like one minute of time. Where's the trash bins, whats the number for the concierge, etc. I guess I am alone, just seems useful to me. I guess that's why I always see it, just looking for info on things I might care about.


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## Dean (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> The booklet says "Before checkout, load and start the dishwasher". Sounds like a requirement to me. The claim was DSV and many other places had no such notice. Yes, you have to actually read. No matter where they put it, you still have to read, no one can make you read (except via the technique noted below). Yes, every MVCI we have stayed in over 20 years we've seen the notice, though not in the same place. I was just posting to point out yet again, notice is there. For me, I don't want 10 different notices for things all over my villa. Takes away from the appeal. Like no pets, etc. The same claim can be made about any policy.
> 
> That being said, I do agree that a statement should be there about fee. I like what some resorts do, where you initial that you understand each policy during checkin. So, if it says please note if you don't do this you will get a fee, and you initial it, your problem. In that way, you have verified you have read it (and if you just initialed to make it faster without reading too bad). A notice does not make you read it. Keeps in room clutter away.
> 
> We should be good stewards. It takes very little time and effort.


I don't agree.  Putting it in a book that most don't look at with no notice or notification at checkin is not sufficient to make it a requirement IMO.  For this exact situation there really are only 3 possible answers.  Either they left it messy enough to be an outlier, the resort is being over the top or the resort made a mistake possibly cross-referencing villas.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 4, 2019)

Dean said:


> I don't agree.  Putting it in a book that most don't look at with no notice or notification at checkin is not sufficient to make it a requirement IMO.  For this exact situation there really are only 3 possible answers.  Either they left it messy enough to be an outlier, the resort is being over the top or the resort made a mistake possibly cross-referencing villas.



People sure like to make excuses to try and get out of things. It's not there, it isn't worded the way I want, it's not in the exact spot I would put it in, what's the meaning of the word requirement, etc. etc. Geez. I do agree with your 3 explanations. I am not saying they deserved the charges, simply don't know and wasn't there. I doubt it was for merely not loading the dishwasher. We don't know if they left a weeks worth of dishes with dried stuff in them all over the villa, or, maybe they left it pretty much good shape. 

As mentioned, initialing at checkin would make this clearer for those "reading challenged". For me, I will always follow good manners and do as asked.


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## controller1 (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> People sure like to make excuses to try and get out of things. It's not there, it isn't worded the way I want, it's not in the exact spot I would put it in, what's the meaning of the word requirement, etc. etc. Geez. I do agree with your 3 explanations. I am not saying they deserved the charges, simply don't know and wasn't there. I doubt it was for merely not loading the dishwasher. We don't know if they left a weeks worth of dishes with dried stuff in them all over the villa, or, maybe they left it pretty much good shape.
> 
> As mentioned, initialing at checkin would make this clearer for those "reading challenged". For me, I will always follow good manners and do as asked.



@Steve Fatula I believe this may be the first thing I've seen you post with which I disagree.  As far as being "reading challenged", you have taken the information out of context.

The booklet states:

". . .We ask that you kindly help us conserve energy while in your villa:

Before checkout, load and start the dishwasher, . . ."

Having a bulleted list after the colon preceded by "We ask that you kindly help us . . ." is not quite the same as interpreting that it is mandatory.  If the bulleted item was not after the information preceding the colon then yes it is mandatory, but preceding it with "kindly help us conserve energy" does not give the connotation of anything mandatory.


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## VacationForever (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> The booklet says "Before checkout, load and start the dishwasher". Sounds like a requirement to me. The claim was DSV and many other places had no such notice. Yes, you have to actually read. No matter where they put it, you still have to read, no one can make you read (except via the technique noted below). Yes, every MVCI we have stayed in over 20 years we've seen the notice, though not in the same place. I was just posting to point out yet again, notice is there. For me, I don't want 10 different notices for things all over my villa. Takes away from the appeal. Like no pets, etc. The same claim can be made about any policy.
> 
> That being said, I do agree that a statement should be there about fee. I like what some resorts do, where you initial that you understand each policy during checkin. So, if it says please note if you don't do this you will get a fee, and you initial it, your problem. In that way, you have verified you have read it (and if you just initialed to make it faster without reading too bad). A notice does not make you read it. Keeps in room clutter away.
> 
> We should be good stewards. It takes very little time and effort.


Steve, you have to show me this evening where to locate the dos and don'ts.  We have not found it at either DSV I or II units.


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## Dean (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> People sure like to make excuses to try and get out of things. It's not there, it isn't worded the way I want, it's not in the exact spot I would put it in, what's the meaning of the word requirement, etc. etc. Geez. I do agree with your 3 explanations. I am not saying they deserved the charges, simply don't know and wasn't there. I doubt it was for merely not loading the dishwasher. We don't know if they left a weeks worth of dishes with dried stuff in them all over the villa, or, maybe they left it pretty much good shape.
> 
> As mentioned, initialing at checkin would make this clearer for those "reading challenged". For me, I will always follow good manners and do as asked.


We'll have to disagree, a listing in a booklet laying on the table or somewhere is simply not sufficient notification.  We do those things as a matter of habit, it's not a question of looking for excuses.  I've seen those listing many times at other timeshares and they're always a laminated notification or even a plastic placard.


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## bazzap (Feb 4, 2019)

$250 is a very large fee for additional housekeeping charges required.
I would certainly have asked for documented details with photos and evidence to justify any such fees imposed.
It was interesting to read an MVC Owners Connection fb group post today referencing another fee for exactly $250 for cleaning when pets have been found in units.
“If the pet is found in a room, the registered occupant will be charged a $250 room cleaning fee and the pet will be evicted.”


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## pedro47 (Feb 4, 2019)

I wish the OP would come back and explain what happen. When they question the additional housekeeping fees by the resort ?


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## Panina (Feb 4, 2019)

I will just say I go visit someone at their home and I consider it filty where they think it is clean.  Everyones standards are different.  Some people think any mess they make housekeeping should clean which is wrong, because they paid to stay.

I would never leave dirty pots in my unit when I left. I can’t even comprehend how someone thinks that is ok.

Some of my timeshares have by laws on what is expected when you occupy the unit.  You can say its not their responsibilty to remind you each time.  It would lessen the misunderstanding on fees if you had to initial and sign at check in a paper that states the fees.  All of my smaller timeshare have this form at check in.


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## jhac007 (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> So, are you claiming it's not there in Newport Coast, or just the fee aspect. Shall I post that one? I can't believe people don't read the info (whereever it is), not cover to cover. It's like one minute of time. Where's the trash bins, whats the number for the concierge, etc. I guess I am alone, just seems useful to me. I guess that's why I always see it, just looking for info on things I might care about.



........and these folks are probably some of the same folks that wonder why they can't check in early, will dig thru everything to find the best restaurants, somehow they figure how to get on the internet, smoke on balconies where it is clearly stated no smoking in units/balconies and the list goes on.  If an indiviual(s) has been around TS's any length they have more than likely heard/seen this expectation before and one has to wonder if they have done this before and gotten away with it!  The OP's statement"I mean its a kitchen unit where food will likely be cooked/served and pots/pans used up" to me reflects an attitude, not a matter of "I didn't know".


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## pedro47 (Feb 4, 2019)

Panina, I can agree with your comments about visiting some people homes. They are filthy and dirty and their bathrooms needs to be sanitized with 100% pure Clorox.

Let me stop.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 4, 2019)

controller1 said:


> @Steve Fatula I believe this may be the first thing I've seen you post with which I disagree.  As far as being "reading challenged", you have taken the information out of context.
> 
> The booklet states:
> 
> ...



No, we actually agree that it is badly written. Obviously, loading and running a dishwasher is not conserving energy, it's using energy. It doesn't belong in that section and is a mistake for sure. Though it is not written that way, it's clear to me what it means as almost all timeshares request that. But I think we all know we are "encouraged" (maybe that word will work) to do so and it makes sense. If they get to your villa at 2:30pm and checkin is 4pm, and the dishes are dirty and not loaded, it won't even complete by 4pm. Sure, they can have more workers, wash by hand, etc., it just drives up cost. Most likely they play the averages and expect x% of folks to do so. That's why I agree with Deans 3 possibilities, though it seems he thinks I do not even though I also advocated better notice, i.e. improvement.

As far as I know, I have never said I agree they should be charged as I was not there. If I did that was a mistake. But saying they shouldn't is an assumption too. I am just surprised so many people are saying they don't know this, shocked really.

I know it's not exactly the same thing, but, I did not find a policy that says don't wreck the furniture, don't steal the TV, etc. Common sense however.....

But thanks for the kind words, nothing wrong with disagreeing. I think some are reading what I am saying in a manner I did not intend. I was mostly not responding to the OP, just at those who wanted to claim there is no notice or worse, have never ever heard of it. I just find it surprising. I must be the outlier!

Humorously, at the front desk this time, there was a big bold sign on the desk about no pets! I asked if it was really THAT bad, and she said worse. Fortunately, I still have not heard any. I suppose one could miss that sign.


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## Dean (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> That's why I agree with Deans 3 possibilities, though it seems he thinks I do not even though I also advocated better notice, i.e. improvement.


Steve, it's this that I disagree with in this context.


> People sure like to make excuses to try and get out of things.


I agree that many shirk personal responsibility and tend to participate in situational ethics.  So I agree that if it's a rule then people should follow it.  Personally I think we should all do things to make it easy to clean and leave things are reasonable as possible and we do all of these things and more on a consistent basis just to be helpful.  What I disagree with is the idea that having such info ONLY in a book that's sometimes present and sometimes not, is not sufficient notice no matter the wording and that's true even if it were present 100% of the time.  Your inference, which I find offensive, is that holding that belief is making excuses.  And that's where we'll have to agree to disagree if you meant it as you stated.


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## Steve Fatula (Feb 4, 2019)

Dean said:


> Steve, it's this that I disagree with in this context.
> I agree that many shirk personal responsibility and tend to participate in situational ethics.  So I agree that if it's a rule then people should follow it.  Personally I think we should all do things to make it easy to clean and leave things are reasonable as possible and we do all of these things and more on a consistent basis just to be helpful.  What I disagree with is the idea that having such info ONLY in a book that's sometimes present and sometimes not, is not sufficient notice no matter the wording and that's true even if it were present 100% of the time.  Your inference, which I find offensive, is that holding that belief is making excuses.  And that's where we'll have to agree to disagree if you meant it as you stated.



Dean,

Was not trying to offend anyone, and certainly not you! Some of the posts here have had that gist (excuses), to me. But also, to me, even if it were in no book anytime anywhere, one should not leave a unit in a mess. It still sounds to me like we agree. I think more people now realize it should be a little tidied up at least, so, maybe there is a good outcome. Your dispute is you don't call it a rule, and I do. Call it a suggestion and a goodwill gesture. I am sure you still agree it is higly unlikely, without an error, it was applied merely for a few dishes not loaded.


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## Dean (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> Dean,
> 
> Was not trying to offend anyone, and certainly not you! Some of the posts here have had that gist (excuses), to me. But also, to me, even if it were in no book anytime anywhere, one should not leave a unit in a mess. It still sounds to me like we agree. I think more people now realize it should be a little tidied up at least, so, maybe there is a good outcome. Your dispute is you don't call it a rule, and I do. Call it a suggestion and a goodwill gesture. I am sure you still agree it is higly unlikely, without an error, it was applied merely for a few dishes not loaded.


 Absolutely except I do think it’s unreasonable to hold that as a rule when it’s only listed as such in this manner.


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## TravelTime (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> So, are you claiming it's not there in Newport Coast, or just the fee aspect. Shall I post that one? I can't believe people don't read the info (whereever it is), not cover to cover. It's like one minute of time. Where's the trash bins, whats the number for the concierge, etc. I guess I am alone, just seems useful to me. I guess that's why I always see it, just looking for info on things I might care about.



I do not remember if there was a warning or not. They gave me a paper and I read that. I did clean up before I left and I was not charged any extra fees. I have never been charged extra fees at checkout so I must be neat enough.


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## TravelTime (Feb 4, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> So, are you claiming it's not there in Newport Coast, or just the fee aspect. Shall I post that one? I can't believe people don't read the info (whereever it is), not cover to cover. It's like one minute of time. Where's the trash bins, whats the number for the concierge, etc. I guess I am alone, just seems useful to me. I guess that's why I always see it, just looking for info on things I might care about.



Just an FYI, at home I hire housekeepers so why would I want to clean a timeshare? Vacation is supposed to be an escape and offer something better than what you can get by staying home. While I have never been charged extra when I leave, I would be pretty upset if I were. It is ridiculous to go on vacation and be expected to go above and beyond what is expected in a hotel...or at home (if you have housekeepers). Also keep in mind that most of the Marriotts and Disneys also have hotel guests who are not expected to do anything and they stay in the same exact units timeshare owners stay in. I would think they would treat people who pay and visit annually as just slightly more special than hotel guests.


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## TravelTime (Feb 5, 2019)

Steve Fatula said:


> People sure like to make excuses to try and get out of things. It's not there, it isn't worded the way I want, it's not in the exact spot I would put it in, what's the meaning of the word requirement, etc. etc. Geez. I do agree with your 3 explanations. I am not saying they deserved the charges, simply don't know and wasn't there. I doubt it was for merely not loading the dishwasher. We don't know if they left a weeks worth of dishes with dried stuff in them all over the villa, or, maybe they left it pretty much good shape.
> 
> As mentioned, initialing at checkin would make this clearer for those "reading challenged". For me, I will always follow good manners and do as asked.



I do agree that if people are pigs and leave a timeshare or a hotel room in a terrible condition, they should be charged. I also agree with Dean that the notice needs to be clear and reasonable.


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## Nonnie Capurro (Feb 5, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> I do not remember if there was a warning or not. They gave me a paper and I read that. I did clean up before I left and I was not charged any extra fees. I have never been charged extra fees at checkout so I must be neat enough.


I've been timeshareing since 1975 and always clean up and run the dishwasher on the way out the door before check out.  Never thought of not cleaning up after myself.   Is this a new thing?


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## TravelTime (Feb 5, 2019)

Nonnie Capurro said:


> I've been timeshareing since 1975 and always clean up and run the dishwasher on the way out the door before check out.  Never thought of not cleaning up after myself.   Is this a new thing?



I do too, I just did not realize this was required or we would be charged $250. If I were charged $250 for not running a dishwasher, that would be my last visit ever to that location. That is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.


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## TravelTime (Feb 5, 2019)

PS I have always cleaned up hotel rooms before I leave...not because of a fee...just because it seems like the right thing to do.

I just do not agree that we should be charged a huge fee for a minor infraction.


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## Dean (Feb 5, 2019)

It's been interesting over the years to see variations in this area at different resorts.  I've seen many different inventory sheets and approaches as well as a number of variations on how the requirements are posted.  In some cases they seemed quite heavy handed, in others mere suggestions.  We were at a small Wyndham resort in Dec that had probably the most strict and exact requirements I've seen.  They were very detailed and specific and somewhat threatening if you didn't follow the instructions to the letter.  For the most part they were things we would have done anyway but there were a couple of things we would not have automatically done exactly as listed including vacuuming.  I've also seen resorts with inventory's where, as written, you were responsible for any missing items not listed as missing on the inventory and turned in by a given deadline.  We approach timeshares as we do other things in life including philosophies of treat others as you'd want to be treated and many hands make light work.


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## pedro47 (Feb 5, 2019)

We always cleaned our timeshare villa before we checked out. Because, we want the next family  to be able to enjoy the timeshare villa as much as we did.


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## klpca (Feb 5, 2019)

A few years ago my sister and I were scouting timeshares on Kauai for a return visit.  When we went to Hanalei Bay Resort,  they said that we could tour a unit but that it had not been cleaned.  No big deal we said, and off we went. When we got to the unit I could not believe my eyes. It was an absolute messy, dirty unit, with scraps of fabric and pieces of thread everywhere, like someone had been quilting and just threw their scraps on the floor. So weird. But it made me understand what housekeeping has to deal with, even if only on an occasional basis. That unit was going to take twice as long to clean, because those scraps of fabric would need to be picked up by hand before vacuuming,  and probably some of the thread pieces too. The kitchen was also dirty, but more of a normal dirty (dishes, glasses in the sink).

I always look for cleaning instructions in the unit because they all seem to be slightly different.  It is a force of habit after doing VRBO's before we started timesharing. Vacation rentals always have very specific checkout instructions.


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## SandyPGravel (Feb 5, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> PS I have always cleaned up hotel rooms before I leave...not because of a fee...just because it seems like the right thing to do.


Me too, but it is because Housekeeping was my first job at 15 years old and anything I can do to make their job easier I do.  My DH probably thinks I'm a little nuts.


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## controller1 (Feb 5, 2019)

TravelTime said:


> PS I have always cleaned up hotel rooms before I leave...not because of a fee...just because it seems like the right thing to do.
> 
> I just do not agree that we should be charged a huge fee for a minor infraction.





SandyPGravel said:


> Me too, but it is because Housekeeping was my first job at 15 years old and anything I can do to make their job easier I do.  My DH probably thinks I'm a little nuts.



I do the same but also probably because I worked for a hotel for four years while in college.

As to the timeshare cleaning issue, we never leave a mess but we don't ensure our dishes are in the dishwasher and we never vacuum the timeshare.  We've only been timesharing since 2005 and I guess we are spoiled with Vistana timeshares. The warning/suggestion/pleading on cleaning the timeshare unit is not posted nor a requirement in the Vistana system.  We've only spent time in Vistana units so this thread is eye-opening to me.


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## SandyPGravel (Feb 5, 2019)

controller1 said:


> As to the timeshare cleaning issue, we never leave a mess but we don't ensure our dishes are in the dishwasher and we never vacuum the timeshare. We've only been timesharing since 2005 and I guess we are spoiled with Vistana timeshares. The warning/suggestion/pleading on cleaning the timeshare unit is not posted nor a requirement in the Vistana system. We've only spent time in Vistana units so this thread is eye-opening to me.



Same here, only have stayed in VSE properties.  I need to branch out though, because I want to go to Key West.


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## pedro47 (Feb 5, 2019)

Cleaning to us is washing all the dirty dishes in the dishwasher and emptying the  trash.


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## NboroGirl (Feb 5, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Cleaning to us is washing all the dirty dishes in the dishwasher and emptying the  trash.



Same here.  We also throw the dirty towels in a pile on the bathroom floor.  And of course we leave a $20 tip.


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## Panina (Feb 6, 2019)

Left at our door two days prior to checkout at HGVC’s affiliate South Seas Captiva.  Might be good for all resorts to remind you what needs to be done.  



 This was


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## tschwa2 (Feb 6, 2019)

I still have a feeling for a $250 fee at a Marriott VC, the resort had some kind of evidence of a pet or smoking in the unit.


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## silentg (Feb 6, 2019)

I always clean up when we leave DH is more of a stickler than me.But we both leave the place the way we found it.


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## bazzap (Feb 7, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> I still have a feeling for a $250 fee at a Marriott VC, the resort had some kind of evidence of a pet or smoking in the unit.


And at least some resorts clearly specify the $250 charge for pet or smoking contraventions, e.g.
http://img.vacationclubsurvey.com/images/Comm_Design/VEP/MY_Info.html


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