# Doing away with deeds



## laynemiller (Mar 18, 2008)

Hi all,
We just returned from a week at Star Island in Kissimmee Florida. The resort is older but well maintained. The furnishings are dated and need to be replaced, but the activities and amenities are incredible. It is located within 12 miles or less from all the main Orlando attractions and very close to many restaurants. We had a great time. We attended the regular "owner update" and passed on more points, but when we returned, a salesman I last purchased from called (I initiated the call) and told me that Wyndham is doing away with deeds by as early as June. It will be more vacation club-like, but it can still be passed to children upon death. He, of course, announced an impending price increase. Has anyone else heard of the elimination of deeds?
Layne


----------



## timeos2 (Mar 18, 2008)

*Can you say Weasel FUD?*



laynemiller said:


> Hi all,
> We just returned from a week at Star Island in Kissimmee Florida. The resort is older but well maintained. The furnishings are dated and need to be replaced, but the activities and amenities are incredible. It is located within 12 miles or less from all the main Orlando attractions and very close to many restaurants. We had a great time. We attended the regular "owner update" and passed on more points, but when we returned, a salesman I last purchased from called (I initiated the call) and told me that Wyndham is doing away with deeds by as early as June. It will be more vacation club-like, but it can still be passed to children upon death. He, of course, announced an impending price increase. Has anyone else heard of the elimination of deeds?
> Layne



Doing away with deeds.  Think about that. Every deeded Wyndham property owner is somehow going to be forced to give up their deed and become an unsecured holder of a vacation club type membership? Of course not. They have been saying Fairfield - now Wyndham - would be "getting rid of deeds" for at least 5 years. Hasn't happened even at the outrageous retail pricing level. If it did what do you or I care? We'd be out f our minds to actually purchase anything from the retail weasels at $.12 to $.15 pp or more - deeded or not - when all the deeded points we could ever want to own are readily available for $.01 or less on resale. It is FUD, it is sales talk, it is not true. But the real key is NEVER buy from a Wyndham resort directly or you've paid too much. 90% or more too much. Let them raise the prices - it doesn't impact resales and thats the ONLY place to buy more Wyndham FSP points.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Mar 18, 2008)

*I Am Almost Afraid To Ask . . .*




timeos2 said:


> It is FUD, it is sales talk, it is not true.


. . . what's _FUD_. 

_Weasels_ I know about, having sat across those little tables from them any number of times. 

Live & learn, eh? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## timeos2 (Mar 18, 2008)

*No, not Elmer Fudd*



AwayWeGo said:


> . . . what's _FUD_.
> .[/RIGHT]



Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.  Coined back in the 60's when it was used by IBM to indirectly put down their competitors.  Remember "No one ever got fired for buying IBM"?


----------



## lprstn (Mar 18, 2008)

That sounds like a bold faced lie to get you to purchase.  They are trying to redeem their name, not ruin their reputation and have a class action lawsuit.  Now they may have said that for new purchases but definately not for current or previous.  As well as it may be another aspect of the business, instead of it affecting you.  That's salesperson talk, half truths.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Mar 18, 2008)

*Whew!  That's A Relief.*




timeos2 said:


> Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.


Glad to know it. 

For a while there my imagination was running away with me in a direction I did not like going. 

Fear & Uncertainty & Doubt fit well with Shock & Awe, wouldn't you say ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jya-Ning (Mar 18, 2008)

laynemiller said:


> Has anyone else heard of the elimination of deeds?
> Layne


For last 3 years, I heard that at least once a year during an update.

I believe the best straigey is to wait

Samething happen to the so call President VIP.  for 2 years, a lot sale tell people they should buy from them because new club is coming.  Than now, they say, you have to buy extra x amount of points in order to get this VIP.  And yet, there is no solid evident this VIP is existing or if so, how it actual operates.

So, just wait till they come out, and wait till all the rules become iron out, and wait til you find a good deal like they can match the vale with resell vale, than buy.  ANd make sure every benefit is on the contract, and make sure if they change any benefit you can demand all your money back.

Jya-Ning


----------



## pournellep (Mar 19, 2008)

*Presidential Reserve*

Presidential Reserve does exist and is brand new. Currently it is only being sold at Myrtle Beach and Ocean Ridge Edisto. It is not a new level but a program feature to platinum ownership. I can tell you for a fact that wyndham is not taking away your deed! Those properties have to be registered with the real estate commision so no they are not going anywhere. As for future properties they build they could sell them as a club ownership!


----------



## laynemiller (Mar 19, 2008)

I think I confused everyone. I was not suggesting they are taking away my deed, I'm saying that from beginning sometime in June, all new purchases will not include a deed. I trust the guy I talked to and I don't think he would lie to me. I am suggesting this will be for future purchases. Sorry about the misunderstanding. By the way- I love this forum. I sit on an HOA board for a timeshare in Mesquite Nevada, and I often use information I have gained from TUG to argue for changes to our HOA and it has produced results.
Thanks everyone.
Layne


----------



## timeos2 (Mar 19, 2008)

laynemiller said:


> I think I confused everyone. I was not suggesting they are taking away my deed, I'm saying that from beginning sometime in June, all new purchases will not include a deed. I trust the guy I talked to and I don't think he would lie to me. I am suggesting this will be for future purchases. Sorry about the misunderstanding. By the way- I love this forum. I sit on an HOA board for a timeshare in Mesquite Nevada, and I often use information I have gained from TUG to argue for changes to our HOA and it has produced results.
> Thanks everyone.
> Layne



Your trust is misplaced. That rumor has been around for over 4 years and hasn't happened yet.  While it might it really would be for only new resorts not those already in sales. It is very tough to change the method of sales after they have been registered. Given Wyndham's usual lack of effort on change they are unlikely to actively pursue a big change like that at all resorts in sales.  Glad to hear TUG helps you and your Board.  I know it's helped ours.


----------



## pournellep (Mar 19, 2008)

*deeds*

I know they are coming out with a new program called club wyndham access. (might be around that time frame) Not sure about a deed though. It is a combination of alot of properties that will give owners multiple ARP's. They are throwing the points together from alot of older properties and things that were not selling!!


----------



## laynemiller (Mar 20, 2008)

I know they are coming out with a new program called club wyndham access. (might be around that time frame) Not sure about a deed though. It is a combination of alot of properties that will give owners multiple ARP's. They are throwing the points together from alot of older properties and things that were not selling!!

Perhaps that's where it is coming from- that would make sense. Thanks again for your comments. It is so comforting to have a source to gather information, voice an opinion or just vent. I have owned time shares for about five years and most of what I know (or think I know) comes from this forum. We just got back from a week at Star Island in Orlando and we had another great time. The hardest part of the whole trip was leaving 88 degrees at the beach and returning to snow and highs in the mid-40s.
Layne


----------



## bnoble (Mar 20, 2008)

> It is a combination of alot of properties that will give owners multiple ARP's. They are throwing the points together from alot of older properties and things that were not selling!!



None of which really require ARP in the first place.  For now, I'm assuming this is just more of the usual smoke-and-mirrors from the Wyn sales force.


----------



## Jya-Ning (Mar 20, 2008)

laynemiller said:


> I think I confused everyone. I was not suggesting they are taking away my deed, I'm saying that from beginning sometime in June, all new purchases will not include a deed. I trust the guy I talked to and I don't think he would lie to me. I am suggesting this will be for future purchases. Sorry about the misunderstanding. By the way- I love this forum. I sit on an HOA board for a timeshare in Mesquite Nevada, and I often use information I have gained from TUG to argue for changes to our HOA and it has produced results.
> Thanks everyone.
> Layne



They have that type of program a while ago (club type with no deed), but never get fly.  At if I remember right last year, they dissolved that club (you can find some discussion on that in this forum).  I doubt they will restart a new club to do the same process again.

Jya-Ning


----------



## EAM (Apr 23, 2008)

The club access program sounds similar to what Worldmark has.  Is it?


----------



## Kozman (Sep 8, 2008)

*Wyndham Access?*

I'm currently at Wyndham Nashville and got the pitch that someone wanted to drop by my room for 15 minutes to bring a gift and check on maintenance issues and the check-in procedure.  When the person showed up they had a copy of our contracts and asked where the other owner was.  When I said I was alone, she politely excused herself and left.  When I pressed her on why she came over on false pretenses, she mentioned they wanted to inform us on a new program called Wyndham Access but all owners had to be present.  So, it seems like there is something in the works to try to pry more money out of our wallets to buy something we already own!  Has anyone else gotten more info on what they are up to?


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 8, 2008)

Kozman said:


> I'm currently at Wyndham Nashville and got the pitch that someone wanted to drop by my room for 15 minutes to bring a gift and check on maintenance issues and the check-in procedure.  When the person showed up they had a copy of our contracts and asked where the other owner was.  When I said I was alone, she politely excused herself and left.  When I pressed her on why she came over on false pretenses, she mentioned they wanted to inform us on a new program called Wyndham Access but all owners had to be present.  So, it seems like there is something in the works to try to pry more money out of our wallets to buy something we already own!  Has anyone else gotten more info on what they are up to?



Standard sales pitch for grossly overpriced (compared to the inexpensive resale readily available) developer points/perks. You missed nothing of value.


----------



## Jya-Ning (Sep 8, 2008)

Kozman said:


> I'm currently at Wyndham Nashville and got the pitch that someone wanted to drop by my room for 15 minutes to bring a gift and check on maintenance issues and the check-in procedure.  When the person showed up they had a copy of our contracts and asked where the other owner was.  When I said I was alone, she politely excused herself and left.  When I pressed her on why she came over on false pretenses, she mentioned they wanted to inform us on a new program called Wyndham Access but all owners had to be present.  So, it seems like there is something in the works to try to pry more money out of our wallets to buy something we already own!  Has anyone else gotten more info on what they are up to?



Wyndham Club Access is suppose to be a RTU.  So the selling point is when you die, you don't have to worry how to get rid of your TS, they will take over it, if you die at the exact year that RTU ends.

It will be a collection of resorts.  So you can ARP on these resorts at the time up to the point deeded in these resorts it can get.

The club probably now control most of the POA vote that way.

Jya-Ning


----------



## Kozman (Sep 8, 2008)

Jya-Ning said:


> Wyndham Club Access is suppose to be a RTU.  So the selling point is when you die, you don't have to worry how to get rid of your TS, they will take over it, if you die at the exact year that RTU ends.
> 
> It will be a collection of resorts.  So you can ARP on these resorts at the time up to the point deeded in these resorts it can get.
> 
> ...



Jya-Ning,

You are probably right!  The same thing is going on at Festiva Resorts.  They want you to give up your deeded property in exchange for being able to go to any resort in their Festiva Vacation Club.  I believe the points are owned by a trust and your HOA voting rights are basically given up.  They control the trust and can make any kind of 'improvements' that you may not want or need and just raise you maintenance fees to cover it with very little veto rights on your part.  They want to upgrade to granite counter tops and big flat screen tv's as an incentive to convince new victims to buy!  No thanks.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Sep 8, 2008)

*Handing Over The Deed?  That Sounds Familiar.*

The Diamond Timeshare Co. (formerly SunTerra) wants people to sign over the deeds to the Diamond (formerly SunTerra) timeshare resorts they already own, along with a bunch more money, to buy into T*.*H*.*E*.* Club (formerly Club SunTerra). 

So now Festiva & Wyndham are following suit ? 

Looks like the virus is spreading. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## timeos2 (Sep 8, 2008)

*Oh no - another way to get shafted on price by Wyndam?*



AwayWeGo said:


> The Diamond Timeshare Co. (formerly SunTerra) wants people to sign over the deeds to the Diamond (formerly SunTerra) timeshare resorts they already own, along with a bunch more money, to buy into T*.*H*.*E*.* Club (formerly Club SunTerra).
> 
> So now Festiva & Wyndham are following suit ?
> 
> ...



Particularly obnoxious (and an obvious money play) if being done  by Wyndham as the points based owners (which has been most owners for many years now) already have access to all resorts at 10 month or less. Paying tens of thousands to get potential use to a very limited number of resorts (remember, they can only apply to other converted resorts not "ahead of the line" for those who own as originally sold) makes virtually no sense. But then again neithr does any purchase of Wyndan points at retail yet they sell those everyday. Sense and value doesn;t always seem to matter in timesharing.


----------



## Jya-Ning (Sep 9, 2008)

The goal IMHO is to sell.  And assume different people buy TS for different reason, a variety of products that doing the same thing will be prefer, plus, it will help the sale person to confuse people, thus impossible to do detail analysis.

They have tried a club type membership, and failed, it get dissolved last year.  I will guess probably because of the set up issue.  Now, they are coming 2 new programs - President level, and this.  President level is on new resorts, and deeds back by president unit.  And it is deeded one. This club access is RTU if my read is right, and was not backed by deed, the club does hold a set of deeds.  Thus allows owner to ARP on all the area back by those deeds.  Will see if they solve the issue to register in all state in order to sell.

I will just guess that President is intend to get people looking for high end resort, and club RTU is intended for solving their resell issue since as developer they can not just sell those recycle points as new without register them in all the area they are selling.

I think they will selling Plantimun owner the 2 concepts, 1 go for president since they usually has big family to travel, 2. whatever they hold is a lousy place old resort and since Wyndham is such bad builder and worse management company they better buy newer resort otherwise their old deed will see increase in MF hysterical: ).  Although I could not understand the reason they need to bad mouth Wyndham that way.  But it sounds very effective.

Than they will take all the old deeds, and package them into the new club, and sell them as new.  With reason that it is very bad burden to the kids, so you better only hold RTU and prepare to die at the end of RTU (hummm..).  Then at the end of RTU, they may have big stake on all the old resort and can tear it out and rebuild it, than sell all the newer one.

Jya-Ning


----------



## Timeshare Von (Sep 9, 2008)

Sounds to me like another Discovery type program, only for a longer term.

Just say no!


----------



## klconley (Sep 9, 2008)

*laynemiller*

You sit on an HOA board in Nevada correct?  Would you happen to know the name of the Grand desert wyndham HOA and their contact info.?  Thanks.  Kelly


----------

