# Totally new with bazillion questions



## EZ_life (Mar 14, 2009)

Hi everyone!
Me and my husband just purchased timeshares at Wyndham in Wisconsin Dells this Thursday, March 12.
We don't know absolutely nothing about TS, never even thought about it. Just got the invintation, free airline tickets with the promise to attend this seminar, no intent to buy anything whatsoever. I guess like anyone else.
Well, after 6 hours of the tour, gazillion questions, headache, great "only one time" offer we got into it, bought 154,000 points, sign the contract and left home. 
Of course we started to do "homework" by researching what the heck we got into??? 
I perfectly understand now, that it was very foolish to buy directly from them, now I know we can get the same exact offer for 5 times cheaper.
Now, here are my questions and I would really appreciate to hear any advices, suggestions, concerns and etc.
1. As I understood correctly we have 5 business days to cancel the contract with no penalty. Do you think we shoudl do it and buy from the re-sale website or eBay?
2. How many people can be on the deed? For instance my husband's family is very big, and we were thinking to got all together and get more points. Will we be all owners and everyone would get benefits?
3. Our salesmen told us that the points are carried over to the next year if we didn't use them all. Now I've been searching and reading and it doesn't seem to be true. How's that work?
4. If we used up all our 154,000 points for the year we can buy an additional points for $8/1000p. Is there any limit of points that I can buy for the year?

I know that I can call 800 number and ask the same, but I would rather hear the opinion from different people then a company.
Thanks!!!


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## rickandcindy23 (Mar 14, 2009)

You definitely need to rescind, no doubt about it.  You have no benefits at all from buying retail, and since all timeshares are used when you stay in them, what is the difference between retail and resale but money.  

Having your relatives buy points for big family gatherings is a nice idea, but you couldn't transfer points between family members, since Wyndham just ended that benefit on 3/1/09.  Also, any time you have a guest stay in your unit, you will pay $99 guest fee, which is also new.  

Wyndham has downgraded the benefits so much at this point, I cannot see even buying resale, which many people agree, and that is why resale is close to $0 on most points you see on eBay.  

Wyndham is greedy, and you need to rescind ASAP.  If you like the product and want to use it yourself, perhaps you should buy resale for that reason.  But guest certificate costs and loss of other benefits doesn't bode well for those of us who own Wyndham.


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## EZ_life (Mar 14, 2009)

Hi Cindy!
Thanks for your reply!
Yes, we would probably cancel the contract. Do you know if there any penalties if we would do it within 5 days?
As for family, we were thinking to do it as a group. So put all our names on the deed (let's say 8 of us), purchase more points (500,000 or 1,000,000), so that we are all in one contract, in one ownership, so we wouldn't exchange points,as we will have them all together. And that's my question if it is possible?
Now, where did you get the price of $99 for guest confirmation? I got $49 in the book that they gave us.
Thanks a lot!!!


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## garmich (Mar 14, 2009)

RESCIND!!!

I wish I had known about resale before buying.  I found this forum and the Wyndham Resorts Forums http://forums.atozed.com/ when it was too late to rescind.  I definitely would have rescinded and then purchased resale.  Or maybe even not purchase at all and just rent from an owner without having a mortgage and MF's for life.

The Wyndham Resorts are beautiful and my family truly enjoyed our trip last August to Bonnet Creek, which is our home resort.  I do not regret buying the Wyndham TS. I just regret the way that I did it, by purchasing from the developer instead of resale.

You're one of the lucky ones, in that you have the opportunity to rescind.


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## EZ_life (Mar 14, 2009)

Do you know if we would pay any penalties for rescinding?
Thanks!


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## teepeeca (Mar 14, 2009)

As others have said---RESCIND--!!!!  There should be no penalties for rescinding.  Several other things.

Are you SURE it is 5 "business" days, or just 5 days ???  Just to make sure, I would rescind in the 5 day period (NOT business days), and make sure you do it "EXACTLY" as outlined in your documents.  Make sure, also, to use a "return receipt" method from the USPS, so you have proof that you rescinded "on time" (postmark counts as the day you rescinded).

If, and when, you do buy a points contract, I would HIGHLY SUGGEST that you DO NOT have multiple names on the contract/deed.  What would happen if you, or another party on the deed wanted to sell?  Would be hard, to impossible to do so.  And, if perchance you did agree to sell, how about getting all of the signatures "notarized"?  Talk about a hassle !!!

Wyndham keeps "changing" the rules, in their favor.  Really "think" about what you are doing.

Tony


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 14, 2009)

Zero $$$$$$ penalty for rescinding within the deadline period.

Otherwise you are OUT 95%+ of your purchase dollars.


RESCIND NOW!


Oh, and Welcome to TUG!  You are so lucky to have found this site within your rescindation period instead of 2 days after.


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## EZ_life (Mar 14, 2009)

Hi Tony!
Yes, it says that it is 5 business days from the date you sign the contract or 5 business days after you received the time share disclosure statement, whichever is later. So we signed it on 12th, we have time till 16th technically.
Ok, we do understand about issues with multiply names at the contract, however is it possible to do so? Or another question: if we leave just our names, and would simply give our member card to his sister family to go somewhere, will they be able to get all VIP benefits? I do understand that it is "streatching the system" 
Thanks!


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## EZ_life (Mar 14, 2009)

Hi Linda!
Indeed we're lucky! 
But I have so many questions! You should see that selesperson! We kept him instead of 90 minutes 6.5 hours! We've never heard anything about timeshares and it did soud like a "great" deal. My husband always ask so many questions ALL the time that drives me nuts some times! But in this case I can deal with it! 
Does anyone knows if there is a limit of purchasing additional points like I posted before?
Thanks!


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## pedro47 (Mar 14, 2009)

Please read in the above red link banner: TUG ADVICE and Please watch the video by Brian Rogers.  This will explain the tuggers threads that you are reading.

Enjoy your timeshare and Good Luck!!!


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## EZ_life (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks Pedro!
Now I got all weekend occupied!


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## DeniseM (Mar 14, 2009)

Here is an FAQ about rescinding.  It was written for another TS system, but besides that, everything in it applies to your situation.

You should without a doubt rescind TODAY!  After you rescind, you can take your time, do your research, and make an informed purchase for far less money.

Good luck!


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## timeos2 (Mar 14, 2009)

*It's a great deal at resale but a ripoff at retail*



EZ_life said:


> 1. As I understood correctly we have 5 business days to cancel the contract with no penalty. Do you think we shoudl do it and buy from the re-sale website or eBay?



Rescind absolutely or you are paying way too much. Buy resale for a 90%+ savings. There is NO COST to rescind. None. Don't let them tell you there is. 



EZ_life said:


> 2. How many people can be on the deed? For instance my husband's family is very big, and we were thinking to got all together and get more points. Will we be all owners and everyone would get benefits?



You can put a lot (I'm not really sure if there is a limit but most likely there is) of names on a deed but it can be a big problem in the long term as everyone must agree to anything that happens with that ownership. A real potential can of worms. I'd limit it to 3 or 4 at the most.



EZ_life said:


> 3. Our salesmen told us that the points are carried over to the next year if we didn't use them all. Now I've been searching and reading and it doesn't seem to be true. How's that work?



Not true. You need to pool your points PRIOR to the use year OR bank them with RCI (or in a few cases II) which is not the same as rolling them over to another year. Using them that way requires more exchange fees and the weeks system rather than points. Best to avoid that as much as possible. 



EZ_life said:


> 4. If we used up all our 154,000 points for the year we can buy an additional points for $8/1000p. Is there any limit of points that I can buy for the year?



I think the limit is 80% of your annual allotment but I'd have to verify that. In any case it is not unlimited. 

Also FORGET VIP - you don't get it with resale and, based on the extraordinary cost difference between resale & retail points, it is not worth the price for the limited and ever changing (usually decreasing) benefits. 

First & foremost rescind. Then look at a nice package of resale points and enjoy a great resort system.  And don't overdo the names on the new deed.


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## Bill4728 (Mar 14, 2009)

Sometime buying from the developer can make sense. BUT right now buying direct from Wyndham makes no sense at all. You can buy 300,000 pts resell for somewhere around $2000. So you could buy the 500,000 that you and your family bought for <$4000. And you paid ?What? about $30,000 - $40,000. 

Is there anything Wyndham could offer you that is worth $26,000 - $36,000?? 

You are so lucky to find out about resell while you still can rescind without penalty. 

PS Even if there was a penalty ( there isn't) But even if there was, it would be worth paying the penalty and saving $26,000 or more.


PSS  If you at a later date do decide to buy direct from Wyndham, they will offer you everything they offered you when you bought this past week.


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## EAM (Mar 14, 2009)

*Trusts may be an option for family group membership*

Some people have placed all their timeshare points into family trusts so that extended family members may all use the points as owners.   There may be information on the Wyndham Owners' forum about setting up such a trust.    Someone in the family would need to over see the trust, make sure fees are paid, etc.  There'd have to be a way to arrange use of the points in a way that is satisfactory to all involved, etc.    And consulting an attorney is always a good idea when setting up a trust.

Sharing ownership via trusts was more appealing when resale points could count towards VIP status.  Until recently, putting points into a trust did not make that much difference except for those who purchased resale and want their heirs to be able to retain the family's VIP status.  Now that guest certificates are so expensive and transferring points between family members is forbidden, they may become appealing once again.


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## EZ_life (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your time!
As I said we both didn't know absolutely nothing about TS. So to get such a "great" deal seemed to be good. So we did a research and found out that it was at least stupid to do so. 
*Timos2*, you said to forget about VIP status if we would buy not from the developer. Do I understand correctly that then we would be just regular timeshares holders without any benefits and it won't matter how many points we would buy?
Thanks!


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 14, 2009)

It is the memories, the vacations, the lifestyle.

VIP benefits are just beads, like the throws at Mardi Grais.  The money you save will buy much more lasting things like college courses for your kid, a safer car, or longterm care insurance.

JMHO,


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## timeos2 (Mar 14, 2009)

*Buying retail at Wyndham is a HUGE and costly mistake to make*



EZ_life said:


> *Timos2*, you said to forget about VIP status if we would buy not from the developer. Do I understand correctly that then we would be just regular timeshares holders without any benefits and it won't matter how many points we would buy?
> Thanks!



Correct. VIP is only available to buyers at grossly inflated retail prices. Resale points DO NOT count for VIP. Fortunately Wyndham has degraded the VIP benefits so even if the difference in cost was only $1000 it would take a decade to get value out of them vs resale. But in reality the difference in cost is in tens of thousands and you couldn't live long enough to get $10,000 in benefits out as a VIP even IF they left the benefits intact. But they don't. They regularly reduce the value of VIP making it even less valuable. Don't waste the time or money it takes to be so-called VIP.  Just buy enough resale points to do what you want on the average use year in the system. That is the real value of Wyndham Points. VIP is nothing but sales puffery. They love to feature it as it is the only thing they have to offer over resale but at the cost it simply cannot be a good value. Buying Wyndham retail is always a financial mistake.  Buying resale is a great way to get a great value in timeshare.


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## EAM (Mar 15, 2009)

*VIP benefits are not constant*

The VIP benefits are subject to change or elimination.  E.g. at one time, VIP benefits were available to anyone who owned the appropriate number of points.  Now resale points don't count unless purchased from an immediate family member.  One used to be able to reserve the smallest available unit and get an upgrade to the largest available unit.  Now you can get only an upgrade to the next unit up (not even necessarily the next size up).  E.g. the upgrade may be from a small one bedroom to a large one bedroom rather than to a two bedroom.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 15, 2009)

And now take at Reservation Transaction IF you are just VIP.


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## EZ_life (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks guys!
We did put a letter together, and going to send it first thing tomorrow morning. I really appreciate your help!
But I got another question. Let's say you bought from resale 154,000p, and then decided to buy additional 300,000p. Will you be able to combine the contracts and have one with 454,000p total? As I understood from reading and searching Wyndham doesn't allow to combine points from different contracts.


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## hjhauss (Mar 15, 2009)

I think you are referring to the fact that Wyndham no longer allows owners to transfer point among accounts.  However, Wyndham has always tried to combine multiple deeds into a single account.  Owners who for some reason want to have multiple accounts have had to work very hard to get Wyndham to do that.


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## timeos2 (Mar 15, 2009)

*In case VIP is still n your mind*



EZ_life said:


> Thanks guys!
> We did put a letter together, and going to send it first thing tomorrow morning. I really appreciate your help!
> But I got another question. Let's say you bought from resale 154,000p, and then decided to buy additional 300,000p. Will you be able to combine the contracts and have one with 454,000p total? As I understood from reading and searching Wyndham doesn't allow to combine points from different contracts.



Yes, you can combine them. No, the 154,000 would NOT apply toward VIP. And, in case you didn't get the message already, you'd be CRAZY to buy retail those 300,000. The only reason to do so would be for VIP which, again, is not worth the cost. If both the 300,000 & the 154,000 are all resale you can still combine them into one big account but they will not get you the VIP. As a rule just remove VIP as a consideration as since the date they removed the ability to reach VIP with resale points it has been a perk simply not worth the tremendous cost. Concentrate on getting a good price/annual fee on resale points only and you'll be buying true value in the Wyndham system.


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## EZ_life (Mar 15, 2009)

In FAQ Denise mentioned about specific form with explanations. I can't find it at all!
I've read the contract and it says that I have a right to cancel within 5 business days bla-bla-bla. And then it says: cancellations should be sent to Seller at PO Box..... NV, 89193
And here I'm confused. Should we send it here, or to Developer in FL, or the Agent to Madison, WI?
Thanks again and sorry for all those stupid questions.


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## EZ_life (Mar 15, 2009)

No, no, no *Timeos2*
I perfectly understood about the VIP. The reason I asked was that 154,000 is enough for one family of 3 people, but not enough for 10. So to have more points combined together would defenetly help to go on vacations all together.


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## Tia (Mar 15, 2009)

No stupid questions. Follow the written directions *exactly *_as written_. Probably Postal Service with return receipt. 






EZ_life said:


> ...I've read the contract and it says that I have a right to cancel within 5 business days bla-bla-bla. And then it says: cancellations should be sent to Seller at PO Box..... NV, 89193
> And here I'm confused. Should we send it here, or to Developer in FL, or the Agent to Madison, WI?
> Thanks again and sorry for all those stupid questions.


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## DeniseM (Mar 15, 2009)

EZ_life said:


> In FAQ Denise mentioned about specific form with explanations. I can't find it at all!
> I've read the contract and it says that I have a right to cancel within 5 business days bla-bla-bla. And then it says: cancellations should be sent to Seller at PO Box..... NV, 89193
> And here I'm confused. Should we send it here, or to Developer in FL, or the Agent to Madison, WI?
> Thanks again and sorry for all those stupid questions.



Follow the directions EXACTLY, send it to the address listed in the directions, make a copy of everything, and send it return receipt requested.


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## timeos2 (Mar 15, 2009)

EZ_life said:


> In FAQ Denise mentioned about specific form with explanations. I can't find it at all!
> I've read the contract and it says that I have a right to cancel within 5 business days bla-bla-bla. And then it says: cancellations should be sent to Seller at PO Box..... NV, 89193
> And here I'm confused. Should we send it here, or to Developer in FL, or the Agent to Madison, WI?
> Thanks again and sorry for all those stupid questions.



Send it to exactly where it says it should be sent to. Anywhere else and it may not do the job you want (a successful rescission).


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## timeos2 (Mar 15, 2009)

*One big happy account*



EZ_life said:


> No, no, no *Timeos2*
> I perfectly understood about the VIP. The reason I asked was that 154,000 is enough for one family of 3 people, but not enough for 10. So to have more points combined together would defenetly help to go on vacations all together.



Good - I was ever so slightly afraid you were planning a retail purchase (Whew!) 

Any points you buy resale can be combined into one single account. Unless they are all at the same resort they will have different ARP rights. Again, not really an issue unless you plan to utilize ARP.  As often noted it really isn't required at many resorts and even then only for very specific times.


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## EZ_life (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok, the only thing it says at the contract is: cansellations should be sent to seller at PO Box 94443, Las Vegas, NV 89193
But here is my question: can I do sertified mail even though that it is PO Box address? Who is going to sign the delivery confirmation at the PO Box? 

Another thing. We did call our credit card company and let them know what was going on. They put this trunsaction under the investigation, and changed all our numbers and closed the old card.
Also I'm going to fax a letter to the office in Wisconsin Dells and mail to them, NV and FL as well with sertified mail.


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## Stricky (Mar 15, 2009)

If you send it certified to a PO box they will still have to sign for it. There will be a card in thier box and they will go to the counter to sign for the letter.


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## slabeaume (Mar 15, 2009)

In all your tons of paperwork that you should have received, there should be an official 1 sheet paper that you sign to recind.  If you're close enough to where you bought in, I'd take it in to make sure they got it.  

Will they accept just a hand written recind letter?


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## EZ_life (Mar 16, 2009)

That's the trick! We've looked many many times at the package of all documents and there is NO such form to rescind the contract. 
I've looked at the Wis. Stats. 707.47http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/1995/95Stat0707.pdf 
So typed letter plus the copy of the contract should do it. I faxed to the Dells office this morning, and mailed to 4 addresses.


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## jtridle (Mar 16, 2009)

*Letting family members use your points*

Consider buying a large points package resale and then renting them to your family members, either for the cost of your maintenance fees or a little extra if your family is okay with that.  Of course you will have to buy them a guest certificate for $99 (I think if it is done online) or I think it is $129 if you call them up and do it over the phone.  But they could agree to pay for that.  That might be better than putting lots of name on the deed and then all of the problems that may cause later should you die, want to sell, etc.

Also, if anybody ever tells you that they did get VIP status with resale points, don't get confused by what you have heard on that.  If they bought resale prior to about 2003, they got VIP status.  Since then, allegedly not.  There could be some exceptions to this I suppose if the Wyndham site really wanted to make a sales.  Perhaps they gave somebody VIP if they bought additional new developer points and combined them with prior resale points.  I don't know if there have been some exceptions or not.  General rule is you can not get VIP with resales.

I agree with decision to rescind.  I have VIP gold status but the benefits are not worth the cost difference.  And they keep taking the benefits away.  It's always for our own good of course (so they say).


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## EZ_life (Mar 16, 2009)

You know, I think after all that crap we probably will try to rent it out first and see, and then as a lot of people mentioned find a nice package and buy from resale.


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## Linduz58 (Mar 16, 2009)

The one advantage of buying directly through Wyndam is that any points purchased as a resale, even through Wyndam, cannot be applied for VIP status.


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## timeos2 (Mar 16, 2009)

*What, a Wyndham plant to say that retail purcahse makes sense? Read on*



Linduz58 said:


> The one advantage of buying directly through Wyndam is that any points purchased as a resale, even through Wyndam, cannot be applied for VIP status.



This has been covered above over & over again. The COST of retail - 90%+ MORE than resale - vs the extremely limited, and falling, value of the VIP "perks" means that a buyer isn't likely to own/live long enough to ever break even - forget get any value - out of the cost of a retail purchase that would therefore qualify to be "VIP". VIP has become the only real difference Wyndham can offer between resale & retail and, looking again at the thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars difference in purchase cost while annual fees and use rights are exactly the same, means buying retail with the only difference being becoming a VIP is a fools game!  Except for the Wyndham sales weasels who get to line their pockets and feed the corporate coffers with the extra dollars, no one that seriously looks at the price difference between retail and resale can say that there is a value to the buyer of retail. They will say that paying retail for Wyndham points is a complete ripoff as the value of those retail points drop by 90% or more the day after the rescind rights end. How can that EVER be called a good deal? Do not fall for the Weasel talk that tries to justify such outrageously overpriced purchase of Wyndham points.


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## AwayWeGo (Mar 16, 2009)

*Timeshare Companies Sell Timeshares For Way More Than The Timeshares Are Worth.*




timeos2 said:


> VIP is a fools game!  Except for the Wyndham sales weasels who get to line their pockets and feed the corporate coffers with the extra dollars, no one that seriously looks at the price difference between retail and resale can say that there is a value to the buyer of retail. They will say that paying retail for Wyndham points is a complete ripoff as the value of those retail points drop by 90% or more the day after the rescind rights end. How can that EVER be called a good deal?


I have come to the conclusion that _nothing_ sold at full freight by a timeshare company is ever worth the money.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## WeLovetoTravel (Mar 17, 2009)

*Do they charge VIP gold for guests too?*

Hi-
I was just reading this post & it said that there is now a $99 guest fee. As a gold owner, we have never been charged a guest fee. Is this another benefit that they took away from us? Our kids like to book several long weekends per year, and this would really be a pain if we had to pay an additional $99 for them to use the condo!I have not had time to read the new Directory yet. (I know we all need to be green, but I wish I had a hard copy in my hands)


rickandcindy23 said:


> You definitely need to rescind, no doubt about it.  You have no benefits at all from buying retail, and since all timeshares are used when you stay in them, what is the difference between retail and resale but money.
> 
> Having your relatives buy points for big family gatherings is a nice idea, but you couldn't transfer points between family members, since Wyndham just ended that benefit on 3/1/09.  Also, any time you have a guest stay in your unit, you will pay $99 guest fee, which is also new.
> 
> ...


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## ecwinch (Mar 17, 2009)

The guest fee is when you have used up your allotment of Guest Certificates. I believe Cindy is referring to the fact that the Plat VIP used to have unlimited GC.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 18, 2009)

As a Gold VIP, you have 10 "Free" Guest Certificates along with unlimited reservation transactions and housekeeping credits.


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## discorsage (Mar 18, 2009)

What are reservation transactions?  How do housekeeping credits work?


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## sevenvii (Mar 18, 2009)

Reservation transactions are when you actually call a VC and have them help you book the trip, if you book online it doesnt count as a transaction.  Housekeeping credits are basically a way to limit you from taking a whole bunch of little trips (2-3 days) throughout the year.  Every stay you make takes up some of your housekeeping credits, you begin every year with as many housekeeping credits as points you have(example 154k points, is 154 credits)  Each time you stay at a resort it costs you credits, example a 2 bedroom unit is 77 credits, whether you stay 2 days or 7 days).  So if you have 154k points and wanted to do a 2night stay in a 2 bedroom 3 times a year, you would have to pay them extra even though you have the points to do it, you have to buy HK credits according to their rules.


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## discorsage (Mar 19, 2009)

I am not sure what kind of Wyndham user I will be yet, but I may take many short trips.  Do you know how much housekeeping credits are?

I think at Myrtle Beach I had seen housekeeping for something like $2.25 for each 1,000 credits, which seems expensive.  May eventually want to purchase many Wyndham points and spend part of the year living at Wyndham resorts.  I am wondering how much I will rack up in fees doing this.

When you buy a resale, how do you go about getting your login informaton to make reservations on the web?


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## bnoble (Mar 19, 2009)

> if you book online it doesnt count as a transaction.


I don't believe this is true.


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## sevenvii (Mar 21, 2009)

Sorry, I was wrong.  You get 1 reservation transaction per 77k points you have complimentary.  Anything over that and it costs you $30 per res transaction on website, $59 if you call in.  If you make multiple reservations within the same day, they only count as 1 reservation transaction.



> Do you know how much housekeeping credits are?



$2.25 per credit, they went up from last year it looks like.  If you book during the 90 day or less mark you can borrow from next years points.


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