# What is VEP and how can it affect exchanges?



## Keitht (Mar 20, 2007)

Although I have owned and exchanged t/s for about 20 years I don't know what precisely VEP is and how it might affect the availability of exchange accommodation.  As I have, in all but one case, been successful with my exchange requests it obviously hasn't affected my - yet.
Can somebody please explain??


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## Janie (Mar 20, 2007)

It's a fairly simple concept, but figuring out how the two exchange companies apply it in practice is more complex.

Basically, VEP is a number based on the scores that resorts receive on the comment cards filled out by exchangers.  The higher the average score, the higher the VEP.  (FYI, VEP has nothing to do with Gold Crown, Silver Crown, or 5* ratings. I believe that in order to be GC, SC, etc, a resort needs to achieve a certain VEP.  But the converse is not true.  A resort can have very high VEP, but not meet other standards required to be rated.)

Because the exchange companies want you to trade into resorts that are comparable to what you own, they restrict you from trading into resorts that have VEP scores much higher or much lower than the resort you are trading with.

In practice, what this means is that low VEP resorts can trade for many more choices than very high VEP resorts can.   In many cases, these low VEP resorts are very desirable destinations.  Particularly if you are interested in travel to continental Europe, there are very few high VEP resorts in either RCI or II.  If you are trying to trade into France or Italy with a high-VEP resort, your choices will be very limited.


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## timeos2 (Mar 20, 2007)

Read between the lines and you'll see that its a points system for weeks values. Thats why its better to have those numbers exposed so you the user can decide how you want to distribute the value you own vs the behind the scenes valuation you can't know or control.


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## philemer (Mar 20, 2007)

Keitht said:


> Although I have owned and exchanged t/s for about 20 years I don't know what precisely VEP is and how it might affect the availability of exchange accommodation.  As I have, in all but one case, been successful with my exchange requests it obviously hasn't affected my - yet.
> Can somebody please explain??



This is from the Ask RCI faqs: http://www.tug2.net/advice/FAQ-AskRCI.htm#_Toc32570604

Plus, there is a good thread on Ask RCI called "VEP clarification"

Phil


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## Keitht (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks for the prompt replies.  I can understand the upward limitation, but the downward one is more difficult to make sense of.  Surely there should be some way for the search system to indicate a 'lower value' resort.  That would be preferable to simply having those resorts filtered out and therefore not available.


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## BevL (Mar 20, 2007)

There have been folks who have posted that they have been able to exchange into a lower rated VEP resort by calling in and having a Vacation Guide or Counsellor or whatever they call themselves these days basically manually do it for them.  

The worry is that someone trading a Marriott unit into Joe's Timeshare, Saloon and Grill will call up the exchange company screaming their head off, demanding their original deposit back, etc. etc., or at least that's my understanding of the restriction on a downward VEP exchange.

Bev


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## jlwquilter (Mar 20, 2007)

*Filtering out Lower VEPs*

Based on what I've read, filtering out much lower VEPs during an exchange request offers some protection TO RCI from disgruntled exchangers. As I also understand it, the vast majority of vacationers do little to no research prior to actually leaving for vacation. This means that in essance, they are flying blind as to what they are actually going to get (they probably picked the TS they did based on location, convenience, or amenities whose quality wasn't specified so they assumed it was all GREAT!). 

So...when they ended up choosing a lower VEP TS and got a "lower quality TS" (because they didn't do any upfront work) for that high VEP TS they deposited, they were Shocked. Angry. PO'd. And they called RCI and complained. Since this is costly to RCI - giving back deposits, man hours to service these calls, maybe lost members, etc. - RCI decided that if people weren't going to do the work up front to determine "acceptable accommondations", then they would have to themselves. Tada - VEP filters in the down direction. No one complains if they get a better resort then what they deposited, but RCI obviously can't have all the better resorts going to people who own lower resorts - so an up filter is in place too.

It just another case of the majority not wanting to take ownership of their own lives and passing responsibility off to Big Brother....and those of us that DO want total control having that control/choice taken away.

Personally, I like Joe's Timeshare, Saloon and Grill


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## Judy (Mar 20, 2007)

Thank you Janie, for explaining VEP better than I ever could have.

As for the term "lower quality timeshare" in the post above, I'd like to point out that quality is in the eye of the beholder.  VEP, being based on comment cards is going to reflect the priorities of the average exchanger.  I have been frustrated many times trying to exchange into dive resorts in the Caribbean.  For some reason, they get low VEP ratings (maybe from people who don't dive and so were disappointed). 

Bev mentioned reading posts from people who have been able to exchange into a lower-rated resort by calling a VC.  I was able to do that with II by signing a promise never to complain about anything   With RCI I didn't have such good luck.  I had to call in every day trying to catch the exact moment when Lions Dive Bonaire was in inventory.  Being a highly demanded resort, it never was.  RCI refused to put in an ongoing search for me, even though I had been to Lions Dive before and knew exactly what it was like,  because my resort had a higher VEP  Eventually I gave up and bought some weeks in Bonaire. Then I dropped my RCI membership :rofl:


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## jlwquilter (Mar 21, 2007)

*I agree*



Judy said:


> Thank you Janie, for explaining VEP better than I ever could have.
> 
> As for the term "lower quality timeshare" in the post above, I'd like to point out that quality is in the eye of the beholder.  :



That's why I used quotes around that term. Everyone has different expectations, ranges of "acceptable" or definitions of what makes something of "lower quality".


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## abc31 (Mar 21, 2007)

Would you then be better off just entering a search using all the specific resort ID#'s that would appeal to you in the location you are interested in going to?


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## Janie (Mar 21, 2007)

abc31 said:


> Would you then be better off just entering a search using all the specific resort ID#'s that would appeal to you in the location you are interested in going to?



No, you can't get around it that way.  The computer will screen out any resorts on your list that have lower or higher VEP than your deposit is supposed to view.

The only solution at this point in time is to own a mix of timeshares: some high VEP, some low; all with excellent trading power.  That's the only way to ensure that you have access to all deposits.


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## wackymother (Mar 21, 2007)

A related question: You own a t/s with a fairly high VEP. Strangely, and yet perhaps not so strangely, you would like to stay at Joe's Timeshare Saloon Bar and Grill. You put in an ongoing request for Joe's. You would like to stay at Joe's anytime. You will quit your job, pack your bags, and hop on a plane with a rubber-band propeller when RCI says the time is ripe to head for Joe's. 

You wait and you wait, your beard grows long and dusty, and you have to go to your stinking job every day, for Joe's never comes up. Joe's never WILL come up for you, because your resort has too high a VEP, and Joe's is the bottom of the fish tank. 

Is there a way to find this out before you create the ongoing search and check your RCI record breathlessly every single morning and evening? 

And similarly, is there any way to know that your moderate-VEP timeshare will never in a million years pull that Joe's Fancyland Timeshare and Deeeluxe Spa week that you have your eye on?


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## philemer (Mar 21, 2007)

wackymother said:


> And similarly, is there any way to know that your moderate-VEP timeshare will never in a million years pull that Joe's Fancyland Timeshare and Deeeluxe Spa week that you have your eye on?



Funny post!!   No way to know in advance unless you poll Tuggers who own that resort & week. But, a low-to-moderate VEP t/s *can* pull a Fancyland & Deeeluxe t/s. It greatly depends on the 'power' of the week you deposit. For example: I own a week at a 'standard' resort in Park City with an average VEP. If I deposit a Red summer or fall week it won't pull much but if I deposit a prime ski week, like wk.#7, it will pull all the fancy resorts. VEP is only a small part of trading power.


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## Laurie (Mar 22, 2007)

wackymother said:


> You wait and you wait, your beard grows long and dusty, and you have to go to your stinking job every day, for Joe's never comes up. Joe's never WILL come up for you, because your resort has too high a VEP, and Joe's is the bottom of the fish tank.
> 
> Is there a way to find this out before you create the ongoing search and check your RCI record breathlessly every single morning and evening?


Other ways to find out if your VEP is too high: either you see a sighting posted on a timeshare bbs for the lower-VEP resort you yearn for, or else you happen to be on the phone with a VG discussing a search you are thinking about. Ask about the resort you want and whether there is current availability. Usually they will tell you if there is, but that it's lower quality than the one you own. They'll then allow you to confirm it if you "insist", but they won't allow you to put it on 24-hour hold and think about it, since it is an exception. At least, this is my twicefold experience.

It's possible you can call in advance of a search and ask whether they can tell if there is a quality problem even when there is no current availability - that I'm not sure of.

A clarification on my take of what a VG can see when searching with a specific deposit of yours: they can't see resorts for which you don't have adequate trade power. But they *can* see lower-VEP filtered-out resorts, for which your trade power is adequate. They will never tell you about those, even if you already have an ongoing search which includes that resort # - unless you ask a specific verbal question inquiring about your chances to get a match there, and current availability, and stressing your desire to go there.


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## Janie (Mar 22, 2007)

philemer said:


> Funny post!!   For example: I own a week at a 'standard' resort in Park City with an average VEP. If I deposit a Red summer or fall week it won't pull much but if I deposit a prime ski week, like wk.#7, it will pull all the fancy resorts. VEP is only a small part of trading power.




Hi Phil:  I think this is an accurate view of VEP and trading power in RCI, but if you're talking Interval, then VEP is HUGE.  The VEP range within which II allows you to trade is much narrower, and they don't permit nearly as much "trading up" as RCI does.  Also, they do seem to confer some extra trading power on high VEP resorts, regardless of season.  That is why those crazy off-season FoxRuns can be very good traders.  I can't believe that anyone really wants to visit the cold Carolina mountains in mud season, but II treats the deposits as if they're hot property!


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## Sandy (Mar 22, 2007)

*Thanks for this post and discussion*

I was fuzzy on the whole VEP thing. 

It is now coming back to me after reading through these posts. 

There is another aspect that I think applies:

Your RCI number is based on the very first unit you owned with RCI. For example, my RCI weeks account number reflects a resort I have not owned for years!  * ITHINK I recall somewhere that this number bonds me forever to the VEP status of that resort, what ever it is, whether high VEP or low VEP.

Am I recalling this correctly?* If so, this also plays into RCI's gaming of VEP limits on trades. As far as I can tell, there is no way to change your original RCI number, even when buying additional weeks.  But if you buy a points resort, then you get a NEW number.  

*Which brings up another question: Does VEP apply to points too?*


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## Dani (Mar 22, 2007)

Sandy said:


> I was fuzzy on the whole VEP thing.
> 
> It is now coming back to me after reading through these posts.
> 
> ...



  Your first resort number only determines the VEP that is given to you when looking for Extra Vacations.   Each resort that you deposit is given it's own VEP when it comes to trading within the system.   You are not stuck with the VEP of the first resort you owned for trading purposes.

 For instance, the first resort that I owned with RCI was a Gold Crown with a high VEP.  I see so much less than most people when it comes to Extra Vacations.  We did a trade test here on TUG which can be found on the Sightings board, with respect to how the VEP of the resort listed on your membership ID number affects the Extra Vacation weeks that you can see.  People who owned lower VEP resorts could see just about everything in Extra Vacations.

  As for Points, you are given a new Points membership number, but your Weeks membership number remains the same.   I have no idea what they do in terms of looking for Extra Vacations on the Points side.  They might use a mid-VEP number to determine which Extra Vacations Points members can see.


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## tashamen (Mar 22, 2007)

Judy said:


> Bev mentioned reading posts from people who have been able to exchange into a lower-rated resort by calling a VC.  I was able to do that with II by signing a promise never to complain about anything   With RCI I didn't have such good luck.



This is interesting because I've had exactly the opposite experience.  Admittedly it was several years ago with RCI - but not only did they allow me to put in the search for a lower VEP resort, when it came up I signed a piece of paper that I wouldn't complain (and I didn't!).  However with II I have not been able to do the same - but now that I know others have I may have to try again.


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## abc31 (Mar 22, 2007)

How do you know what vep a resort has?


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## Judy (Mar 22, 2007)

Laurie said:


> Other ways to find out if your VEP is too high: either you see a sighting posted on a timeshare bbs for the lower-VEP resort you yearn for, or else you happen to be on the phone with a VG discussing a search you are thinking about. Ask about the resort you want and whether there is current availability. Usually they will tell you if there is, but that it's lower quality than the one you own. They'll then allow you to confirm it if you "insist", but they won't allow you to put it on 24-hour hold and think about it, since it is an exception. At least, this is my twicefold experience.


With II, I can find availability by searching online with my lower quality resort.

When I found a resort I really wanted and called II to ask that they use another of my units to confirm it (one that had better trading power), the VC tried to tell me that it wasn't available.  She was searching with my higher-rated resort that couldn't see it.  I learned that when calling II or RCI about exchanging "down", I have to ask them to remove the quality filter before searching.


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## Carolinian (Mar 23, 2007)

abc31 said:


> How do you know what vep a resort has?



You can't get an exact score.  The formula for that and the resulting number is a closely guarded RCI state secret.  However you can get the raw comment card numbers that will give you a good general idea.  RCI will not give them to you, but your resort should if you ask.

Every resort receives comment card scores monthly, showing both their own resort and the averages for the North American market, on a past month, 3-month, 6-month and 12-month average.  You ahould ask your resort to see that.  Then compare your resorts results with the market average. There are only five categories from the comment cards that go into award status; Check-in/out, Resort Hospitality, Unit Maintenance, Resort Maintenance, and Housekeeping.  Whether VEP includes any other categories is unknown but is has been speculated that it probably doesn't, and it is also unknown if some categories are weighted more than others to compile VEP.

While your own resort should share this info, I don't know of any way to get info on a resort your want to trade into.


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## wackymother (Mar 23, 2007)

Has anybody here actually received and filled out those cards? 

I've only gotten them at one place that I remember--Shawnee in the Poconos. And the cards came with a note saying "Please rate us high! It doesn't do anybody any good for the resort to get downgraded!"  

I remember the form being pretty long and annoying, both sides of a sheet of paper. Is that the card?


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## Janie (Mar 23, 2007)

*Yes, I always try to fill them out...*

I think RCI now emails them to you, don't they?  Or, you can log into your account and do them online.

One question that always makes me chuckle is the one about the weather. I assume that they factor that into their analysis somehow--maybe if it rains all week, they've found that people answer more negatively about the resort in general?


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## Carolinian (Mar 23, 2007)

Janie said:


> I think RCI now emails them to you, don't they?  Or, you can log into your account and do them online.
> 
> One question that always makes me chuckle is the one about the weather. I assume that they factor that into their analysis somehow--maybe if it rains all week, they've found that people answer more negatively about the resort in general?



At least as to award status, many of the categories on those cards do not even count.  Only five count toward award status and those requirements are:

Check-In/Out - Gold Crown 4.6; Silver Crown 4.5; Hospitality 4.6
Resort Hospitality -GC 4.5; SC 4.4; Hosp. 4.5
Resort Maintentance - GC 4.5; SC 4.3; Hosp. 3.5
Unit Maintenance - GC 4.4; SC 4.2; Hosp. 3.5
Housekeeping - GC 4.5; SC 4.3; Hosp. 3.5

Until 4 or 5 years ago, the Unit Quality category was factored into award status but it is not anymore.  The Unit Amenities category is also not factored in.


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## Mel (Mar 23, 2007)

wackymother said:


> Has anybody here actually received and filled out those cards?
> 
> I've only gotten them at one place that I remember--Shawnee in the Poconos. And the cards came with a note saying "Please rate us high! It doesn't do anybody any good for the resort to get downgraded!"
> 
> I remember the form being pretty long and annoying, both sides of a sheet of paper. Is that the card?


I've done them online for the past several years.  Before that we used to get one in the mail about 2-3 weeks after every exchange, and we always mailed them back (yes, completed).


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## sfwilshire (Mar 26, 2007)

wackymother said:


> A related question: You own a t/s with a fairly high VEP. Strangely, and yet perhaps not so strangely, you would like to stay at Joe's Timeshare Saloon Bar and Grill. You put in an ongoing request for Joe's. You would like to stay at Joe's anytime. You will quit your job, pack your bags, and hop on a plane with a rubber-band propeller when RCI says the time is ripe to head for Joe's.
> 
> You wait and you wait, your beard grows long and dusty, and you have to go to your stinking job every day, for Joe's never comes up. Joe's never WILL come up for you, because your resort has too high a VEP, and Joe's is the bottom of the fish tank.
> 
> Is there a way to find this out before you create the ongoing search and check your RCI record breathlessly every single morning and evening?



You describe exactly what went on for me for years before I discovered TUG and learned a thing or two. I also love Joe's. My vacation pleasure revolves around staying in Joe's once in a while. I even ask about my chances of getting into Joe's before I joined RCI in 1996. No problem was the answer.

I waited and waited and waited for years. Constant ongoing searches. Convinced that no weeks ever got deposited. 

Wrong! The nasty VEP issue gets me every time. Ongoing searches won't pull the resort. I can't see available weeks online. I can only call in constantly asking for a VEP waiver (and explaining what that is to half the VGs, who can't always be convinced that such a thing exists). I even bought a low VEP week that was supposed to be low enough, but alas, it's still too high.

Sheila


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## sfwilshire (Mar 26, 2007)

Janie said:


> I think RCI now emails them to you, don't they?



I checked out of a resort yesterday and got the emailed comment card this morning. It only took a minute to fill it out.

Sheila


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