# Maui UPDATE



## Scott&Laura (Oct 25, 2016)

We are at WKORVN now.

Went to owner update--very disappointing. Usually both parties understand we agree to spend half the time with them answering our questions and the last half letting them give sales pitch.

We asked about points merger with Marriot and the response was to go on line. We asked about merger with Interval and trades and were told merely that Starwood properties will be kept separate from Intervals and Interval is looking to make money off Starwood owners for booking if they want to use Interval. The salesman evidently if I understood correctly form him was selected to deal with 4 and 5 star clients and was very smooth. However he did subtly what Orlando salesmen do overtly. He subtly us over the head trying to sell NANAE. He and another guy even went so far as to claim that their offer was only good during day you had owner update--a nonsense high pressure sales tactic.. It was a one way street and no update. we have had great people in the past who really helped. This was a pure hard sell.

During owner update we were told about a $16,000 dollar espresso machine and another Salesmen laughed while he explained how owners fees pay for all the expenses Vistana uses to sell the properties and how we paid for the machine. I cannot tell if he is telling truth or just joking. 

If I had to buy from a developer  I think NANAE makes sense. However the maintenance fees are $3700 a week for a week of resort view and the resort isn't completed yet which means maintenance fees taxes and such will sky rocket.

It will take two years to usefully  it NANEA property and they only offer 60,000 points as an incentive..It will not be sold out in two years so we could trade into it with existing points It appears it is voluntary if you want to be part of SVN system when you purchase.   I told the salesman that because Vistana is unable to retain value in owner purchases.

Because Vistana holds no owner value in purchases within 3 years  I will be able to buy resale in three years 10-20 cents on dollar of sales cost.
at WKORV mostly cmoe in Spring and non owners in fall.

We were told that the owners usually mostly book for spring time and in the fall most are non owners.

The nice thing to see is the property is well maintained and is upgraded.


Scott


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## farsighted99 (Oct 25, 2016)

Scott&Laura said:


> If I had to buy from a developer  I think NANAE makes sense. However the maintenance fees are $3700 a week for a week of resort view and the resort isn't completed yet which means maintenance fees taxes and such will sky rocket.



Oh really? Why is that?



> It will take two years to usefully  it NANEA property and they only offer 60,000 points as an incentive..It will not be sold out in two years so we could trade into it with existing points It appears it is voluntary if you want to be part of SVN system when you purchase.   I told the salesman that because Vistana is unable to retain value in owner purchases.



I don't understand what you are saying here.  "2 years to usefully it?"   I think Nanea is opening in May 2017.  At least you can book it (for 2 bedrooms) in the summer next year. Yes, the incentive is 60,000 points. Yes, it's voluntary.  Don't understand what you mean by "Vistana is unable to retain value in owner purchases?"  Explain please.



> Because Vistana holds no owner value in purchases within 3 years  I will be able to buy resale in three years 10-20 cents on dollar of sales cost.
> at WKORV mostly cmoe in Spring and non owners in fall.



What do you mean "Vistana holds no owner value in purchases within 3 years? 



> We were told that the owners usually mostly book for spring time and in the fall most are non owners.



You mean timeshare owners book their time at the timeshare in the spring, while non-owners (people who use StarOptions) book in the fall?


I'm a newbie; I bought into Nanea and am curious about all this.


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## okwiater (Oct 25, 2016)

farsighted99 said:


> Oh really? Why is that?



I can't speak for Scott&Laura, but I'd imagine the sentiment is based on the fact that WKORV and WKORV-N maintenance fees nearly doubled since pre-construction. That said, I don't think owners of Nanea are in for a repeat in this case since Vistana now has much more experience in Maui as well as with anticipating MFs in general. The newer WSJ phases have not seen significant increases since construction, for example.



farsighted99 said:


> I don't understand what you are saying here.  "2 years to usefully it?"   I think Nanea is opening in May 2017.  At least you can book it (for 2 bedrooms) in the summer next year. Yes, the incentive is 60,000 points. Yes, it's voluntary.  Don't understand what you mean by "Vistana is unable to retain value in owner purchases?"  Explain please.



Since Nanea is a voluntary resort, the value drops precipitously immediately after purchase. The resale market will never be robust since resale purchases lose many of the benefits associated with a developer purchase. Also, the resale market is confusing and scary for people, which keeps all but the most determined buyers away.



farsighted99 said:


> What do you mean "Vistana holds no owner value in purchases within 3 years?



It's likely that within 3 years, there will be a moderate selection of resale units available from people who bought and realized they can't or won't use their ownership. At that point it will be easy to find a unit for 10-20 cents on the dollar, maybe less.


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## bizaro86 (Oct 25, 2016)

okwiater said:


> It's likely that within 3 years, there will be a moderate selection of resale units available from people who bought and realized they can't or won't use their ownership. At that point it will be easy to find a unit for 10-20 cents on the dollar, maybe less.



This should probably be a new thread, but I suspect Nanea will hold the same value as WKORV/WKORVN (adjusted for view/MFs, etc). 

I don't think their mandatory status will add much if any value. To see why, do this thought experiment. 

If someone came on here and asked about mostly trading within the Vistana system, and wanted to buy a resort to get staroptions, would anyone recommend buying in Maui? No, the recommendations are always WKV and SVV Key West/Bella, with the odd WSJ recommendation now that their SOs went up. 

The Maui properties are terrible values as staroption exchangers, because the fees are high and they are expensive up front. However, they are very nice resorts and Maui is very exclusive. Nanea will presumably be a very nice resort on the same exclusive beach in Maui. It will also have 3 bedroom units, and the ability to check in any day of the week during the home resort period. I think those features will roughly offset the lack of mandatory status resale, and it will sell for approximately what an equivalent view/MF WKORV/WKORVN unit would sell for.


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## okwiater (Oct 25, 2016)

bizaro86 said:


> This should probably be a new thread, but I suspect Nanea will hold the same value as WKORV/WKORVN (adjusted for view/MFs, etc).
> 
> I don't think their mandatory status will add much if any value. To see why, do this thought experiment.
> 
> ...



I think you're wrong for a few reasons:


Not everyone is comfortable, interested, or motivated enough to do a private rental during years that they can't or don't want to use their ownership. Having the option to trade quickly and painlessly into something else -- or bank the StarOptions to save for a longer vacation the following year -- is valuable.
 Nanea has adopted the "kitchenette" concept, which makes it somewhat less convenient to cook in the unit. The other Westin Ka'anapali resorts have full kitchens.
WKORV and WKORV have the lock-off concept which means each ownership can be split into 2 separate weeks. Nanea does not.
The maintenance fees are much, MUCH higher at Nanea than at the other 2 properties. IIRC a week in a 3-bedroom costs something like $5k in MF.
Informed buyers who are shopping for a resale Vistana ownership will limit themselves to a mandatory resort in many/most cases. WKORV and WKORV-N are on that list. Even with higher MFs than other mandatory resorts, if someone wants to primarily go to Hawaii but retain the option of going elsewhere, it's a no-brainer which resort to choose.
I do agree with you, however, that the 3-bedrooms will be valuable even with the high MFs because they are the only 3-bedrooms out of all three resorts, and because they have hammerhead-section straight-on oceanfront views.


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## DeniseM (Oct 25, 2016)

bizaro86 said:


> This should probably be a new thread, but I suspect Nanea will hold the same value as WKORV/WKORVN (adjusted for view/MFs, etc).



Historically - this is not true.  Voluntary resorts do not hold their value.


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## trexmdr (Oct 25, 2016)

My friend bought Westin Kawai from the developer. He is not happy.
High MF, hard to rent, will lose 80% on resale. He wants to trade but in other resorts often he cannot get into the place 8 months out during high season.


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## optimist (Oct 25, 2016)

When I first heard that Nanea was going to be voluntary, I was very surprised and  wondered what the corporate thinking was.   Wouldn't it be better for everyone all around if the units held their value, unlike what has happened at Princeville?

The only reason I can think of is that they are planning to phase out this whole model (grandfathering those who already have it until they sell) and have everyone buy into a new point system the way Marriott did...

Deciding where to buy in Maui, this thought was in my mind and I settled on Marriott.


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 25, 2016)

bizaro86 said:


> This should probably be a new thread, but I suspect Nanea will hold the same value as WKORV/WKORVN (adjusted for view/MFs, etc).



This is far from a ringing endorsement - WKORV/N have taken huge decreases in value (~50% to ~80% decrease) when comparing between Developer prices and current resale prices - just not as much Voluntary resorts (~80% to 100% decrease - or worse).

Nanea not being Mandatory can only hurt value as it takes away one of the most valuable options of VSE ownership (SO transfer to new owner) - spinning it as a neutral impact is going against history.


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## trexmdr (Oct 25, 2016)

I too was shocked to see how inexpensive a WKORV oceanview can be had for on our very own marketplace.
I wonder what the first right of refusal is these days.
One would think that Vistana would want to buy inventory at a 70% markdown and resell it but who knows what the price points work out to be. Maybe once they sell it they really don't care once their initial inventory is sold and they move on to another development. I have often wondered if the real and easy money for the developer was the ongoing collection of MF. If you don't pay we take back the property for free and if you do pay, you pay forever.
RT


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## vacationtime1 (Oct 25, 2016)

optimist said:


> When I first heard that Nanea was going to be voluntary, I was very surprised and  wondered what the corporate thinking was.   Wouldn't it be better for everyone all around if the units held their value, unlike what has happened at Princeville?
> 
> The only reason I can think of is that they are planning to phase out this whole model (grandfathering those who already have it until they sell) and have everyone buy into a new point system the way Marriott did...
> 
> Deciding where to buy in Maui, this thought was in my mind and I settled on Marriott.





trexmdr said:


> I too was shocked to see how inexpensive a WKORV oceanview can be had for on our very own marketplace.
> I wonder what the first right of refusal is these days.
> One would think that Vistana would want to buy inventory at a 70% markdown and resell it but who knows what the price points work out to be. Maybe once they sell it they really don't care once their initial inventory is sold and they move on to another development. I have often wondered if the real and easy money for the developer was the ongoing collection of MF. If you don't pay we take back the property for free and if you do pay, you pay forever.
> RT



Call me cynical, but I think the developers' new game plan is to sell properties or points with little resale value, scoop them up at fire sale prices using ROFR when the owners want or need to sell, and then resell the properties or points again at retail.

It gets them out of the high-capital construction business and into a high-margin sales business.  Plus earning ongoing management profits as trexmdr suggests.


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## krj9999 (Oct 25, 2016)

In the short and intermediate term, it may work.  In the long term, I think it's a flawed business strategy.  Vistana needs a new playbook.



vacationtime1 said:


> Call me cynical, but I think the developers' new game plan is to sell properties or points with little resale value, scoop them up at fire sale prices using ROFR when the owners want or need to sell, and then resell the properties or points again at retail.
> 
> It gets them out of the high-capital construction business and into a high-margin sales business.  Plus earning ongoing management profits as trexmdr suggests.


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## bizaro86 (Oct 25, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> This is far from a ringing endorsement - WKORV/N have taken huge decreases in value (~50% to ~80% decrease) when comparing between Developer prices and current resale prices - just not as much Voluntary resorts (~80% to 100% decrease - or worse).
> 
> Nanea not being Mandatory can only hurt value as it takes away one of the most valuable options of VSE ownership (SO transfer to new owner) - spinning it as a neutral impact is going against history.



Oh absolutely, I would certainly not suggest buying Nanea from the developer. I just keep hearing how much less Nanea will go for than WKORV/WKORVN. I don't think that's likely. If there is more than a slight variance in price, I think people will gravitate towards the newer product. 

I do agree with the other poster who said the kitchenettes are a potential issue, and one I had not considered. (My most recent update at WKORV did not include a tour of the sample unit, as I was in a rush and "No thank you'd" my way out of there with a few resale/Tug references). 

I agree that mandatory units usually sell as a premium, but WKORV is not selling as a mandatory unit. They are selling as a Maui resort. The MFs at Maui are actually higher per staroption than some of the Vistana Villages mandatory units, which sell for only a few thousand dollars.

Now, staroptions do add flexibility to an ownership, since you can use them if Maui doesn't work out for you for a year, and the banking feature definitely adds value as well. But the flexibility of making home resort reservations starting any day for any length of time also adds value, and its not obvious to me that the value of staroptions is higher than that. 

If Nanea intervals end up as worthless (<$5k per week or so) I will end up owning lots...


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## Scott&Laura (Oct 31, 2016)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott&Laura  

If I had to buy from a developer I think NANAE makes sense. However the maintenance fees are $3700 a week for a week of resort view and the resort isn't completed yet which means maintenance fees taxes and such will sky rocket.

Oh really? Why is that?

My Response:     To be a Five Star now you must buy at least three weeks from the developer, in the past it was four and buy only two from developer
They are selling Nanae now for $57,000 for resort view. Resort view is somewhat like Ocean View. There will be only 390 rooms whereas I think the other two MAUI Westins have 1,000 rooms. So far fewer people which will make it much quieter. A week ownership of a two bedroom NANAE Resort view can be exchanged for 2.6 days at a Large Single bedroom ocean view at the other two. SVN ownership is optional. It “IS” deeded ownership but you are buying a points system which is a little over 3,000,000 million points total. Maintenance fees are divided into points. Maintenance fees will be a little higher as there are fewer people in the pie to divide among. 
The advantages to the point system is you can check in on a Tuesday staying 2 weeks plus two days and leave on a Thursday. We have often found we would have stayed 2-3 more days but flights and work interfered with a longer stay.
They are selling South and North Ocean View for around $80,000

Quote:
It will take two years to usefully it NANEA property and they only offer 60,000 points as an incentive..It will not be sold out in two years so we could trade into it with existing points It appears it is voluntary if you want to be part of SVN system when you purchase. I told the salesman that because Vistana is unable to retain value in owner purchases. 
I don't understand what you are saying here. "2 years to usefully it?" I think Nanea is opening in May 2017. At least you can book it (for 2 bedrooms) in the summer next year. Yes, the incentive is 60,000 points. Yes, it's voluntary. Don't understand what you mean by "Vistana is unable to retain value in owner purchases?" Explain please.

My response                 Sorry I wrote on tiny laptop. In 2017 numerous rooms will not be complete and you can only use after Mid year. Options for things will be limited. They are doing a soft opening in early 2017 to work kinks in system out. You can use the resort if you are willing to work around their limitations and limited inventory. We were told everything will be complete for 2018.
Because Vistana holds no owner value in purchases; within 3 years I will be able to buy resale for 20 cents on dollar of original sales cost.So in three years NANAE will be availble around $15,000 in resale.

What do you mean "Vistana holds no owner value in purchases within 3 years? 

My Response            If you spend $80,000 for a two bedroom ocean view at Westin Kaanapali North or South the following week all you can sell it for on resale is around $15,000. The average default Starwood says in good years is 3.5%. Vistana and Starwood are not interested in retaining ownership value. Almost all time shares don’t want to retain value in the property. Vistana has right of first refusal to buy. Check Tugg timeshare Vistana right of first refusal. That value is about $10-15,000 for a two week lockoff Ocean View. The sales that escape first refusal are not very much more. It makes good business sense for Vistana not to let resales values go up.
It may take Vistana Nanae 5 years to sell out. By then sadly some owners who tried financing or sad life issues confronted them will cut loose their ownership interests.  Resales will be on market within a year of NANAE opening at about  $10,000 for a week that now sells for $57,000.
We were told that the owners usually mostly book for spring time and in the fall most are non owners. 
You mean timeshare owners book their time at the timeshare in the spring, while non-owners (people who use StarOptions) book in the fall?

  My Response:      Yes. Vistana people at check in said in the fall a lot more renters or peoplewho trading in are present. They said in the spring its mostly owners. Whales are in in Spring. If you are trying to become platinum you bought into NANAE as cheap as it will offered by developer.

I'm a newbie; I bought into Nanea and am curious about all this.



As to Maintenance fees going up---Keep in mind the first year you buy a house the taxes are cheap and then they go up the following year. Hawaii taxes are probably substantially low the first year as the resort is not fully completed. So unless they are collecting excess fees to be applied to maintenance and the following years when taxes go up they then reduce the amount maintenance fees to offset tax increase—I don’t see how maintenance fees will not go up. Taxes will be at full value of property. Maui is short money that is why they are trying to go back years and gouge out more--the only other way to get tax money is to reach into voters pockets and ask them to pay. The money has to come from somewhere to meet their budgets.


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## Scott&Laura (Oct 31, 2016)

NANAE

I was told that NANAE learned from WKORVN  and are installing full ovens. I may be wrong but that is what the salesman said at our non-update of the owner, owner update. But then I thought he may actually care to have updated me. Ou of 10 owner updates we went through 8 have been extremely helpful and actually updated us. Two have been high pressure. 


Scott


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## DeniseM (Oct 31, 2016)

IMNSHO, sales people are very poor sources of truthful and accurate info.

Do your own due diligence, folks.



> Resort view is somewhat like Ocean View.



Actually, it's more like Island View.



> A week ownership of a two bedroom NANAE Resort view can be exchanged for 2.6 days at a *Large* Single bedroom *ocean view* at the other two.



This is not accurate:

-You cannot reserve *ocean view* with Staroptions AT ALL.  

-You cannot reserve a *large* 1 bedroom when you make a reservation.  The villa finder  doesn't differentiate between the lock-off one bedroom, and the stand-alone one bedroom. 

2 bdm. lock-off Floating or Resort View  = 148,100 Staroptions

1 bdm. Floating or Resort View = 81,000 Staroptions

1 bdm. Ocean Front = 95,700 Staroptions​
There is no way that 148,100 Staroptions = 2.6 nights in a 1 bdm. of any view.



> To be a Five Star now you must buy at least three weeks from the developer, in the past it was four and buy only two from developer





> That value is about $10-15,000 for a two week lockoff Ocean View.



The sales person may have said this, but I think they are both incorrect.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 1, 2016)

Denise is correct in not trusting sales people.

When we first thought of buying into Starwood the salesman went on for a long period extolling the virtues of a golf course being built across the road.  Clearly that was a complete fabrication.  I think salespeople are much like 1960's New York Cab drivers.

However on 8 of our owner updates they have spent a great deal of time teaching us how to manipulate points and to maximize air travel, and several other things. Two were callous hard pitch salesmen who made clear it was a one way street. One was profoundly smooth--but I look at fruit and not the tree that delivered it. I look at how was I benefited by sitting for two hours and if I learned things beneficial to me.

Denise says you can not use star options to get an ocean view. We have twice used banked star options to get Ocean Views. Maybe a Monopoly Bank error in our favor.  When we arrived just over two weeks ago we were upgraded to Ocean Front for the two weeks even though we owned Island View in the North. We were told most owners come in the spring.

From what I understand to be a 5 star owner, which is very beneficial if you use hotels, they will allow you to take a resale and if you buy a developer sold unit change it so it applies to your elite status. This as I understand can happen only twice but as I understand now you need 5 weeks total to achieve platinum --years ago it was 4.

As to NANAE--look at the layout  many of the units have ocean view some are island or resort view. It in fact is a blend--so book early as they start filling from Ocean front to back of Villas. Earlier you book I was told the better the view. We booked Island view early and were given Ocean Front for two weeks.  However we treat people nice and always give a smile.

Nanae one week Resort view two bedroom is 211,000  I am confused by Denise's comment of 148,000 for NANAE. At WKORVN and WKORV it is 148,000. At NANAE its 211,000 if I recall correctly and there fore more maintenance fees as more points.  .


Scott


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

> Denise says you can not use star options to get an ocean view. We have twice used banked star options to get Ocean Views.



If you look at the actual confirmation I guarantee that it does not say Ocean View.  It says *"floating view"*and you were _upgraded_ to an Ocean View.  

As a multiple week owner, you have priority for _upgrades_, but no one can make an "Ocean View" _reservation_ with Staroptions.



> A week ownership of a two bedroom NANAE Resort view can be exchanged for 2.6 days at a Large Single bedroom ocean view at the other two....
> 
> Nanae one week Resort view two bedroom is *211,000*



The published numbers do not support this statement:

The most expensive nights of the week in a WKORV 1 bedroom are 16,200 Staroptions per night.

16,200 x 2.6 = *42,120* Staroptions - not even close to 211,000.

Scott - I appreciate you sharing info., but you need to fact check what the sales person tells you.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 1, 2016)

> Nanea has adopted the "kitchenette" concept, which makes it somewhat less convenient to cook in the unit. The other Westin Ka'anapali resorts have full kitchens.
> 
> WKORV and WKORV have the lock-off concept which means each ownership can be split into 2 separate weeks. Nanea does not.


Is this true??

Kitchenette is a really bad idea

AND no lock offs is also a really bad idea.

WOW and I thought the "westin" people knew what they were doing.


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

Bill4728 said:


> Is this true??
> 
> Kitchenette is a really bad idea



It isn't a kitchenette - it's a "galley" type kitchen (no breakfast bar) but it's completely equipped - not like the studios.  In fact, since it has a conventional oven, in one sense, it has a more complete kitchen than WKORVN.








> AND no lock offs is also a really bad idea.



Maui limited the occupancy, so they really didn't have a choice  It has 1, 2, and 3 bedrooms - but no studios.


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## jhac007 (Nov 1, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> If you look at the actual confirmation I guarantee that it does not say Ocean View.  It says *"floating view"*and you were _upgraded_ to an Ocean View.
> 
> As a multiple week owner, you have priority for _upgrades_, but no one can make an "Ocean View" _reservation_ with Staroptions.
> 
> ...



Just for my understanding (which initially I did not understand either side), could the OP possibly mean 2.6 weeks???  2.6 (weeks) x 81,000 (1 bedroom) = 210,600.

Jim


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

jhac007 said:


> Just for my understanding (which initially I did not understand either side), could the OP possibly mean 2.6 weeks???  2.6 (weeks) x 81,000 (1 bedroom) = 210,600.
> 
> Jim



I don't know - perhaps Scott could go back and proof his post - several confusing things there that may be typos or errors.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 1, 2016)

Bill4728 said:


> Is this true??
> 
> Kitchenette is a really bad idea
> 
> ...



Aside from the fact that the county effectively kiboshed lockoffs, I think building dedicated units make a lot of sense. if you look at it as one big complex, there are tons and tons of lockoffs. However, there are currently no dedicated 2 bedrooms, and no 3 bedroom units at all. personally, a dedicated two bedroom is way better for us, as we have small children whom I wouldn't want to have on the other side of an entrance lobby in a separate unit (like the wkorv lockoffs).

I suspect most people buying this are buying with a plan of 1 bedroom and above, so I doubt the lack of studios will cost them sales.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 1, 2016)

Sorry Denise 

You are wrong on all counts

You are wrong on NANAE and you are wrong on confirmation agreement

I do not know what to say as you always STATE you are absolutely right. So therefore you are correct and I am wrong and our experiences were unique from your views.

I can only go by facts of experience


Scott


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

Scott - My apologies if I'm wrong - please clarify, so that everyone has the correct info. for future reference, and please provide your documentation, as well.

And just to clarify - the resort is Nanea.


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

Here is a bigger picture of the kitchen and the description - both from the resort's own webpage:


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 1, 2016)

The facts are we used banked timeshares and were placed in same units of ownership.

The facts are we own two weeks of Island View at WKORVN North and were upgraded to Ocean View. Since I do Photography and we are away most of the day or at pool, or around and about were I sleep doesn't matter and I truly believe the Hotel Staff is fabulous ad does an outstanding Job.

We have always booked and received what we booked or far better. I have never received or paid attention to anything sent saying our view. In 11 years Starwood/ Vistana has always provided what I bought or much better. We have been upgraded several times beyond what we purchased.

Tugg seems to focus on picayune issues and neglects the great experiences I purchased originally for. Tugg has great benefit but seems geared to chastise and trash anyone who received a good experience. I miss Jarta who had pragmatic experience and it seems all we get on TUGG is conspiracy theories or negative feedback. If so dont buy. I wanted a place that was kept up and tended to and never had to worry about. Tugg seems to complain about micro issues even though we are on best snorkeling beaches. We have great shuttles and great service and great experiences which I paid TUGG for.  Are their things they could do better---absolutely--but when I gave low grades to a Vistana survey and expressed why I gave low grades I was attacked by Tugger's who had no clue about statistics but portended themselves and expressed themselves as experts. I found in my life if I don't know something ask and if a fool speaks to keep silent. 

I am beginning to have doubts about tugg it seems everything is attacked even if one has a great experience on the very vacation they paid for.


We traded options and received same or better despite Denise claims. We had two weeks Island view and received two weeks Ocean view and have been upgraded a lot. I don't know what to say other than TUGGERS must be expressing a bitter unkind attitude at check in. Are we lucky--no--we are grateful. Have I complained yes--do I extend positive comments when warranted yes. 

We are just nobody's in Vistana's system so maybe we have won the laottery in several years. I think being kind helps and being grateful helps.


Scott

Scott


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 1, 2016)

ERRATA

Sorry I said paid TUGG for a great experience when I meant Vistana

I know Tugg people will jump o to attack and micromanage issue so I preempted am clarifying issue.

Scott


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

Scott - You have factual errors in your posts which may confuse other people, since Nanea is a new resort and we are still figuring out how it works.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is info. you got from the sales person, but it's counter-productive to leave it posted here, since it's not correct.

I certainly never said that you didn't get UPGRADED to Ocean View - what I said is that you cannot RESERVE Ocean View with Staroptions, and that is a reservation rule that has been published by Vistana.

For many years, you could only reserve "Floating View," with Staroptions.   But several months ago, Starwood, now Vistana, added the option to be able to reserve Ocean FRONT with Staroptions in 2017.  That has been implemented and is possible to do so now.  However, you _cannot reserve_ Island View or Ocean View with Staroptions.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 1, 2016)

Denise 

DO me a favor and express what error I made.

You assert I got info from sales person but in fact you assume wrong---what info did I get wrong and what from salesperson.

I have a sister like you who makes statements and when wrong avoids expressing or informing exactly what info in their opinion is wrong and why in order to determine if miscommunication or an error in understanding exists, She is like you always right but refrains form expressing or attempting to clarify errors.

To be clear we used banked options to reserve Ocean View--you may be correct but we have done so twice

State specifically what you disagree with and I addressed Ocean View--I go by experience of banked options--which you claim I couldn't redeem for property I received.

You seem to like arguing and maybe that is your problem at Vistana


Scott


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 1, 2016)

To be clear 


Tugger's are at Vistana Kaanapali every week. Express what specific issue or question you have and ask them to clarify--If you disagree ask them to clarify. I have had great experiences and treated well and you state I cant get the experiences I had. 

Are you out to argue how many teeth a Horse has or to investigate and count the teeth. DO you want to get answers or just argue over issues? What good do9es being unkind or arguing over issues help with. Ask the people to verify---you imply you know all answers. Let's simply get together and verify each question or fact


Scott


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## DeniseM (Nov 1, 2016)

Scott&Laura said:


> Denise
> 
> DO me a favor and express what error I made



In my posts above, I _very clearly _explained what errors you made:

- You cannot *"reserve"* an *Ocean View* with Staroptions - you can only reserve [Floating] View and Oceanfront.

- *1 week* in a 2 bdm. at Nanea *≠* *2.6 nights* in a 1 bdm. at WKORV-N/S.

- Nanea doesn't have *kitchenettes*. [My error - a different poster wrote this.]

- You have the *name* of the resort wrong.  [It is Nan*ea*.]

- You cannot reserve a *"large"* one bedroom at WKORV-N/S with Staroptions, because the villa finder doesn't differentiate between the dedicated 1 bdm. units, and the 1 bdm. lock-offs.

- Resort View is not *like* Ocean View.



> You seem to like arguing and maybe that is your problem at Vistana



What problem would that be?  



> Express what specific issue or question you have and ask them to clarify-... DO you want to get answers or just argue over issues?



The answers are published and common knowledge - I don't need to ask at the resort, because I deal with these issues every day.  

However, if I did have a question, I certainly wouldn't ask a timeshare sales person.  I've found that the best way to get accurate info. is to use the message function on the Vistana Dashboard.  Only the most experienced Reps. answer the questions, and I have found that they are careful to be accurate when they have to put responses in writing.

I have also found that if you call owner services, you are less likely to get accurate info. - there seem to be more inexperienced Reps. that man the phone lines.


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## trexmdr (Nov 1, 2016)

Bill4728 said:


> Is this true??
> 
> Kitchenette is a really bad idea
> 
> ...



Yes I agree that the kitchinette is a bad idea. We stayed once at WKORVN and missed the full kitchen we had at WKORV, Never could get the hang of microwave ovens.
Nanea has a full kitchen just missing the extra counter space that we always likes at WKORV.

Same with lock-off. Really great for us at we always had options. Often turned one week into two weeks. It wasn't a problem when the kids were younger as we just kept all doors open between units with door stops. And now as they are teenagers we like the separation and so do they.

A salesman told me that Nanea could not have lock-offs. Seems there was a traffic problem on Maui and lock-offs meant more families so more cars while non-lockoffs had less car rentals associated with it.

anyway I love this site and the contributors and especially the knowledgable facilitators. I will say that the moderators do an exceptional job about keeping information accurate and for that I am especially thankful. God knows you can't depend on anything the sales dept says as true. Though it may be, you just can't bank on it.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 3, 2016)

Denise:


We have used our banked Star options for Ocean view. We booked less than 8 months out. Denise are you stating we cannot use the banked Star options ever or that we can only after 8 months out or less?  We know we cant from 12 until 8 months.

Denise you said I had name wrong what name ?


You said I referenced a kitchenette ---I made no such claim. I merely said we were told Nanae learned form error of WKORVN and they know stove was important.


Again rather than asking Tugg people at the resort now you want to argue with me---do you want to solve the problem or are you bent on being right? I did not use word that you claim I used and said "kitchenette" in my submissions. Where did I use it. If wrong I stand corrected.  However what specifically other than your claim I could not have benefited as I did where I erred. Again ask the tuggers to verigy at Maui now.

The fact is we booked in less that 8 months to use banked star options . We booked our island view and we were upgraded to room 8314 at WKORVN upon arrival for two weeks..

Ask the Tuggers at the resort now to confirm. You seem to want to argue with me rather than clarifying facts. Is it possible someone erred we we used bank star options--yes. Is it possible we were accommodated by Vistana yes. It does not make us wrong no matter how you argue. It may be a glitch or maybe Vistana just looked the other way as we are 5 star elite  I don't know perhaps a bank error in our favor occurred but it seems to happen a lot.


Denise how does your attacking me resolve understanding?  Have you reached out and asked clarification or are you just out to show everyone that you are right and I am wrong? If so You are right and I am wrong does that help?


Scott


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## YYJMSP (Nov 3, 2016)

Not sure why it's not clear and obvious and why it's taking so many back and forth and increasing negativity.



1. You can only book what you own at 12-8mos out (OF, OV, IV, OFD, IVD in 2BR L/O, 1BR, studio) in whatever is available.  There is no other possibility.



2. You can only book at 8mos out or less using SOs from the use year or banked from the previous years or some combination of for OF (at a higher rate) or floating view (at the regular rate) in whatever unit size us available.  There is no other possibility.  There is no such thing as OV or IV or either of the deluxe sizes when using SOs.  You are not booking what you own, you gave that up at 8mos out and effectively converted your ownership to SOs.



3. On check in, you might receive an upgrade to a better unit (view or larger) than what you booked at 12-8mos out, and this is when floating turns in to OV or IV or OF or a deluxe unit if you booked at less than 8mos out.  That has nothing to do with what you booked.



4. The new resort is Nanea, not Nanae.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 3, 2016)

YYMSP

That is exactly my understanding however when we use banked Staroptions we have been told room view type


Scott


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## DeniseM (Nov 3, 2016)

Sorry for all the back and forth, folks - there seems to be a comprehension gap here that cannot be bridged, so I will stop trying.


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## pacman (Nov 3, 2016)

Scott&Laura said:


> Sorry Denise
> 
> You are wrong on all counts
> 
> ...



Scott,

I think you need to go back and read your posts.  Some of your statements were misleading, and that is what Denise was trying to clarify.  I don't think there are any conspiracy theories going on here at TUGG, although not sure you can be convinced of that. We, in this timeshare community, are just trying to help each other and make our experiences more enjoyable. With so much mis-information from the developers (aka salespeople), it is important we try to get the facts correct.  Don't get all bent out of shape when we try clarify things.

pacman


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 4, 2016)

^^^^ this ^^^^


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## YYJMSP (Nov 4, 2016)

Scott&Laura said:


> YYMSP
> 
> That is exactly my understanding however when we use banked Staroptions we have been told room view type
> 
> ...



Who told you a room view type and when?  What did it say on your actual booking confirmation?  The confirmation is all that counts -- what someone said has no value, other than to be potentially misleading.

If this is a booking with banked SOs, you could have only booked an OF for a higher number of SOs, or a floating view for the normal number of SOs.  It is not possible for you to have booked anything else.  Look at your confirmation.  Your confirmation will tell you it's a Network reservation and either say Oceanfront (if you paid extra SOs) or Floating View and specifically list the unit type.

The only way you could have booked anything else would have been at 12-8mos out, and you would have been booked in to exactly what you owned.  Look at your confirmation.  Your confirmation will tell you it's a Home Resort reservation and specifically list the unit type and view.

There is NO way you could have a Network reservation that says Oceanview...


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## Henry M. (Nov 4, 2016)

Scott,

if you make a reservation less than 8 months from arrival date the view type on the reservation confirmation should be a floating view. You may well end up in an ocean view or even ocean front room when you get there, but you cannot actually reserve an ocean view. It will be up to the luck of the draw what view you are assigned. Room assignments are made a couple of days before arrival, and many factors go into deciding what specific room you get.

It seems Denise is accurately stating what the reservation mechanism is, and you are saying you got an ocean view room on a Staroptions reservation. You could both be right, in a way. The reservation was for a floating view, but you got lucky and were assigned an ocean view room for your Staroptions reservation with Staroptions from an Island View room.


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## LisaRex (Nov 4, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> You cannot *"reserve"* an *Ocean View* with Staroptions - you can only reserve Island View and Oceanfront.



At the risk of sounding nitpicky, you can only reserve Ocean front villa or a "Whatever Starwood wants to give me" villa.  Not sure where Island View came from.  To clarify, if you reserve a non-ocean front villa with SOs, when you arrive, you could find yourself in IV, OV, or OF. 

Other than that, your post is spot on.  Not sure where Scott's anger is coming from, but I'd like to wish him Aloha. (Seriously.)


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## DeniseM (Nov 4, 2016)

My apologies "island view" is a typo and it should be "floating view" - will correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trexmdr (Nov 4, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> My apologies "island view" is a typo and it should be "floating view" - will correct.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think these discussions are so important because before TUGS I had my ocean view unit for a few years and one year I booked outside the 8-12 month window and I was shocked to be told that my ocean view was not guaranteed. 
I never made that mistake again but it was a mistake that I had to learn from.
Those that have found this forum are learning from other members mistakes or experiences and research. That is why it is important that whatever is posted is accurate and if not it must be challenged. Love this site. Thank you for contributors and moderators. Even the various responses between Scott and others have clarified the staroption vs ownership week more for me.


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## farsighted99 (Nov 4, 2016)

trexmdr said:


> I think these discussions are so important because before TUGS I had my ocean view unit for a few years and one year I booked outside the 8-12 month window and I was shocked to be told that my ocean view was not guaranteed.
> I never made that mistake again but it was a mistake that I had to learn from.
> Those that have found this forum are learning from other members mistakes or experiences and research. That is why it is important that whatever is posted is accurate and if not it must be challenged. Love this site. Thank you for contributors and moderators. Even the various responses between Scott and others have clarified the staroption vs ownership week more for me.



well, in my case, I have the "resort view" unit, so I guess it doesn't matter, I'll probably never get an oceanview.      But you are saying you paid of Oceanview and if you don't book your home unit at least 8 months in advance there is no guarantee you get it?  Wow.

One thing about these timeshare things; way too many rules and restrictions.  You're never told all this when you buy the place.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 4, 2016)

Hello

I understood what everyone says but my experience differs from what I understood.

It is a case of De Facto versus De Jure.


I look at fruit of the tree and Tuggers seem to look at what they understand. I think being kind and nice helps--tugg people seem what is on two stoine tablets matters. Denise and another Tugger reacted over a petty issue of my transposing two vowels. How does that move or help anyone moving forward. 

As i stated you can solve a problem or argue that you are right.


So let the tugger's answer the issues were Denise erred in stating I discussed a Kitchenette. I didn't notice any tuggers or Denise answer Denise's assertion. SO what Denise as I stated is right and I am wrong.


Life is to short and Tugg people 80% seem to focus on negative or anal retentive issues.Have it your way --you are always right--but how does the fact you are right help anyone enjoy their time at the resorts. Nitpicking or micromanaging is useless. How does that help enjoy MAUI on vacation


You win I am wrong so lets move on.


Scott


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 4, 2016)

So... the way one feels about a fact is just as valid as the fact? (sounds familiar...), but it turns out that facts do not care what people think of them - they remain true, and gut feel is just delusion.

Sorry to be contrite, but when anyone posts to this forum and states that what Sales said to them as fact - is often just typical misinformation to achieve a sale, and frustrating to those who try to shed light (aka helping) to correct the misinformation.   Also, it is common nature (me included) to defend what one has bought into (aka bias) - e.g, Nanea, 5*, Developer purchase, etc... and deny those trying to help and state the truths from years of experience.

One can accept or deny them, but the facts remain the same regardless.

Best of luck, and many happy vacations.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 4, 2016)

David why are you Contrite?  You neither spoke nor wronged me in any way. If you did to someone else privately email them


What I am saying is that their are published rules but by being kind very often people will help you. The fact our experiences benefit us in ways many tuggers same we cant be benefited is  an enigma I guess. 

To be clear when one banks their Staroptions they are waiving the entitlements one gets in lieu of receiving Staroptions. I recognize that. Tuggers seem to be focused on the letter of the law rather than recognize being kind to people can get them further. 


Someone said where does Island view come in ---I only own Island view at WKORVN  They booked us and at check in they up graded us to Ocean Front for two weeks


Scott


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## pacman (Nov 5, 2016)

Scott&Laura said:


> What I am saying is that their are published rules but by being kind very often people will help you. The fact our experiences benefit us in ways many tuggers same we cant be benefited is  an enigma I guess.
> 
> Tuggers seem to be focused on the letter of the law rather than recognize being kind to people can get them further
> Scott



Scott
I think you are 100% correct that being kind often gets us benefits that are outside the stated policy..... and we should all be more nice - no matter what - even if there are no apparent tangible benefits. I don't think anyone is arguing with you on that point. 
BUT - I think you are twisting comments when you talk about focusing on letter of the law. As said previously, correct facts are so important in this crazy timeshare world, especially with those of us who are still just learning how to best use our weeks.


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## LisaRex (Nov 5, 2016)

Scott&Laura said:


> Someone said where does Island view come in ---I only own Island view at WKORVN  They booked us and at check in they up graded us to Ocean Front for two weeks.



When I traveled last December to WKORV, I was upgraded to OF both times.  One was via a 12-month out direct exchange reservation with an OV owner,  and the other was with SOs that I got from my mandatory SVV Bella unit.

Now, even though this was my actual experience, it would be misleading for me to claim that SO exchangers (which includes reservations made from WKORV owners outside of the 8-12 month window) should expect an upgraded view.  Why would I set anyone's expectations high when that may or may not be the case for them?  There are only so many villas in the place with an OF view and clearly not every exchanger is going to benefit from a complimentary upgrade.  

Also keep in mind that you and I were both upgraded before SO exchangers could use an increased amount of SOs to actually book an OF villa.  Beginning in 2017, I have no doubt that anyone's chances to get a complimentary upgrade to OF will be significantly diminished.


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## DeniseM (Nov 5, 2016)

farsighted99 said:


> well, in my case, I have the "resort view" unit, so I guess it doesn't matter, I'll probably never get an oceanview.    *But you are saying you paid of Oceanview and if you don't book your home unit at least 8 months in advance there is no guarantee you get it?*  Wow.
> 
> One thing about these timeshare things; way too many rules and restrictions.  You're never told all this when you buy the place.



Just to clarify:  This is also the rule for YOUR Flexoption ownership - you can only make a "home resort" reservation 12-8 months before check-in. 

After 8 months, you can only make a Staroption reservation, even at your home resort, and you are competing with all other Vistana owners who have Staroptions and want to reserve Nanea.

Home Resort Reservations = 12-8 months before check-in

Staroption Reservations = 8-0 months before check-in.​
What this means is that as of today (Nov. 5.):

Any reservations you make on or before July 5 are Staroption Reservations.

Any reservations you make after July 5 are Home Resort Reservations.​


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 6, 2016)

Not sure if this is new, but my current WKORV reservation reminder has the following text as a post-script.

_*"As a villa property, we are unable to offer select SPG Elite member benefits including upgrades, Suite Night Awards, 4:00 p.m. late check-out and Your24"*_


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 6, 2016)

Hello nfarsighted99;

A simplistic overview of how it works is.

As an owner you agree with other owners that you will book your Timeshare unit 12-8 months out or allow the management to allow other associated villa owners to book with Staroptions and finally renters. Their are a tremendous number of costs associated with the Villas and management needs to maximize occupancy and income or maintenance fees  go up.  There needs to be some reasonable window that timeshare owners agree to book in or forgo their cue in line to allow access to others insure full occupancy.

If you decide to exchange your property rights in the Timeshare for either Staroptions or Starpoints--the VISTANA VILLA"s currency is called StarOptions ---the Hotel Currency is called Starpoints (it is like currencies of countries--America has dollars,Germany Euros, Mexico Pesos) you agree to waive some rights associated with your timeshare in lieu of points or options by trading currency. Owners agree to book 12-8 months or allow others access. You reserve forgo cue in line but still have some rights like to view until you decide to finally convert late in the year by banking options or getting points. 

Staroptions as a currency does not have some rights attached but we have found for all practical purposes to seem to be the same. They are not obligated but seem to recognize us as owners. Starwood expressed their customer are extremely loyal and I truly believe the renamed Starwood to Vistana recognizes that fact. Also a significant number of owners of Villas buy more than one week.   I view it as De Jure versus De Facto or a argument of coincidence versus consequence. Vistana has Prudent and smart management having no obligation to provide a view, but is doing what it can to keep owners happy. We have had numerous coincidences that I believe De Facto is in play by a prudent management. Be nice.


Scott

I was told they start booking from the  from the Ocean best views back--book early they said.


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## DeniseM (Nov 6, 2016)

DavidnRobin said:


> Not sure if this is new, but my current WKORV reservation reminder has the following text as a post-script.
> 
> _*"As a villa property, we are unable to offer select SPG Elite member benefits including upgrades, Suite Night Awards, 4:00 p.m. late check-out and Your24"*_



This has always been their published policy - SPG status does not count at the timeshare resorts.

Here is a similar statement from a 2012 reservation:


> Please note that certain SPG Program benefits are not available for Ownership reservations, including complimentary room upgrades, Suite Night Awards™, 4:00 p.m. late check-out, SPG Your24™, complimentary weekday newspaper, and Gold and Platinum welcome amenities.


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## DeniseM (Nov 6, 2016)

Scott&Laura said:


> Owners agree to book 12-8 months or allow others access.  You reserve forgo cue in line but *still have some rights like to view* until you decide to finally convert late in the year by banking options or getting points.



Clarification:  You only have the right to reserve your *deeded view* during the home resort reservation period.  

0-8 mos. out from check-in, you are making a Staroption reservation, and have *no* owner's rights, including no right to your deeded view.

This is not my opinion - this is a published rule, that has always been in place, and is common knowledge.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 6, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> This has always been their published policy - SPG status does not count at the timeshare resorts.
> 
> Here is a similar statement from a 2012 reservation:



I knew it was published - just didn't recall on welcome email.
Thanks.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 7, 2016)

Interesting:


We have in 12 years only booked in the 8-12 month window four times. All the other times about 5-7 months out.  We have always been given a confirmed view. However as I understand from policy is we waive rights to that specific view after 8 months. Is that correct?---In effect our Ownership rights convert to Staroptions when 8 month window passes and by September or, October 31 if Platinum, you are merely confirming either banking the options for a two year expiration or confirm to exchange for Starpoints for hotels were SPG does make a difference? 


So to be clear owners: owners agree to book 8-12 months out to book their required view and after that they have tacitly agreed to waive any right of access to a specific room view and our rights convert to rights of mere star options? So how does it work when if you buy and they give Staroptions as incentive --which must expire very soon.

As I have always understood SPG has nothing to do with Villas it is used for hotel points system. 

Vistana did inform us when we were at WKORVN that their are some extra perks for Elite Gold and Platinum members. They invited us to a get together with other owners for wine and puupuus and such which was very enjoyable. They said they hold it at least once a month but at peak seasons more often.


As of this time I understand SPG is the Marriott-to-Starwood point system used in Hotels.

Star options are the Interval-Starwood Vistana sytem of Villas. 


Scott


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## DeniseM (Nov 7, 2016)

> We have in 12 years only booked in the 8-12 month window four times. All the other times about 5-7 months out. *We have always been given a confirmed view.*



Any reservation made 8-0 months before check-in has a floating view - and that is always stated right on the confirmation:

*StarOptions® used for this reservation: 148,100
Villa Type	2 Bedroom Lockoff Villa
Villa Number	Floating - assigned at check-in
Occupancy	8 Maximum
Accessibility Features	Does Not Apply
Housekeeping Fees	Does Not Apply*


> So how does it work when if you buy and they give *Staroptions* as incentive --which must expire very soon.



In the past, they only gave StarPOINTS (hotel points) as an incentive.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 7, 2016)

I may not have heard the salesman right but I thought he said Star options and wondered if the split was driving that offer and switch from points to options.


I may have misheard him .


Scott


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## DeniseM (Nov 7, 2016)

Vistana can still buy Starpoints from Marriott for incentives, and for owners who covert their timeshares to Starpoints.


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## farsighted99 (Nov 7, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Any reservation made 8-0 months before check-in has a floating view - and that is stated on the confirmation.
> 
> 
> 
> In the past, they only gave StarPOINTS (hotel points) as an incentive.



I got 60,000 bonus SPG points when I paid 20% of the mortgage (just a week or so ago).  They are good for six years. However, I think I read somewhere when you use them you have to call and make sure they use those first.  

We got the cheapest unit at Nanea, but if you buy a 2 or 3 bedroom you get a lot more of them.  Also, you can buy an obscene number of SPG points (91,000 x 4) for about 2 cents each, but these also expire in 6 years.   if you want that.

i understand that's a good rate (but not that spectacular unless you stay in SPG Hotels a lot)  for SPG points; not so sure i want to load up on stuff that expires though.  I've got quite a few SPG points just from paying for the timeshare...    But 2 cents a point is better than what they sell them for (around 3.5 cents).  But I would never pay that price unless I just needed a few to round things off.


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## LisaRex (Nov 7, 2016)

If you're paying interest on that loan, you'd undoubtedly be far better off paying down the loan as quickly as you can v. buying StarPoints at a slightly discounted rate.


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## farsighted99 (Nov 7, 2016)

LisaRex said:


> If you're paying interest on that loan, you'd undoubtedly be far better off paying down the loan as quickly as you can v. buying StarPoints at a slightly discounted rate.



I'm paying it off in December.  Supposedly I get my interest back if I pay it all in 6 months.  I have it in writing, in the sales documents.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 7, 2016)

farsighted99 said:


> We got the cheapest unit at Nanea, but if you buy a 2 or 3 bedroom you get a lot more of them.  Also, you can buy an obscene number of SPG points (91,000 x 4) for about 2 cents each, but these also expire in 6 years.



364,000 SPG points isn't that many, it would barely cover 4weeks in Europe...


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## alohakevin (Nov 7, 2016)

YYJMSP said:


> 364,000 SPG points isn't that many, it would barely cover 4weeks in Europe...



Or you could trade for 540,000 airline miles on a 30,000 for 20,000 special they run periodically.


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## taterhed (Nov 8, 2016)

Denise et al:

Thanks for keeping the facts straight and letting the chaff float to the bottom of the bowl.

I love timesharing, but getting a straight answer from the developer (sales or otherwise) is always risky business.

I do love hearing owner's opinions and experiences; especially when they expose nuances of the process that could seriously impact the use and enjoyment of others.

Finally, I find most Tuggers (on TUG :>) very helpful and positive when it comes to accurate advice, information and sage wisdom gained from years of MF's and reservations.  True, many are cynical after being burned once too often or taxed without representation, but overall most seem quite nice.  Scott and Laura:  I'm sorry you have a negative opinion of TUG, but I too feel that it's important to prevent misunderstandings, misinformation or casual statements (including anything out of a sales presentation) from being proffered as truth lest other Tugger's be struck down by the painful slings and arrows of reality.  

Sadly, I hate to see the finest new resorts being turned into cash-cows to feed the sales machine of the timeshare industry.

Have a great day.


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## farsighted99 (Nov 8, 2016)

alohakevin said:


> Or you could trade for 540,000 airline miles on a 30,000 for 20,000 special they run periodically.



really?  When does that usually happen?  Sounds like a plan.  When you switch them to airline points they don't expire then, I guess. As long as you maintain your airline account.

is that just from SPG?


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## blondietink (Nov 8, 2016)

Don't forget you can also convert them to Marriott points and get a bonus also.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 8, 2016)

farsighted99 said:


> really?  When does that usually happen?  Sounds like a plan.  When you switch them to airline points they don't expire then, I guess. As long as you maintain your airline account.
> 
> is that just from SPG?



SPG generally gives you 25k airline points for 20k spg points. Then, the airlines will often hold "transfer in" bonus promotions where you get even more.

As an example, aeroplan, the program for Air Canada, currently has a promotion where you get between 20-30% bonus miles, the threshold for 25% is 100k aeroplan.

So as an example, you could convert 80k spg to 100k aeroplan, and then get another bonus 25k for a total of 125k aeroplan. 

Aeroplan can be used on all star alliance carriers, but if you have a different preference most of them do something similar. They are always limited time offers, so you have to watch.


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## alohakevin (Nov 9, 2016)

farsighted99 said:


> really?  When does that usually happen?  Sounds like a plan.  When you switch them to airline points they don't expire then, I guess. As long as you maintain your airline account.
> 
> is that just from SPG?



Copied from previous thread. Usually someone on tug will mention it when it comes around.


Old August 3, 2016, 05:10 PM	  #1
duke
TUG Member

BBS Reg. Date: Dec 23, 05
Location: California
Posts: 473

Resorts: SVO 5*Elite
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New offer:  

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Plus, if you convert 20,000 points in one transaction, Starwood automatically adds a 5,000 bonus.


Example

1.Your 20,000 Starpoints® convert to 20,000 AAdvantage® miles (20,000 miles total)


2.When you convert 20,000 points, Starwood adds a 5,000 point bonus (25,000 miles total)


3.You earn 20% bonus miles on your conversion (20% of 25,000 = 5,000; 30,000 miles total)

https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-p...h-starwood.jsp


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## farsighted99 (Nov 10, 2016)

alohakevin said:


> Copied from previous thread. Usually someone on tug will mention it when it comes around.
> 
> 
> Old August 3, 2016, 05:10 PM	  #1
> ...



I'm not so sure that 1 Starpoint is really worth swapping for a 1.2 AA airline point though.  

The SPG starpoints have a value of at least 2.2.   So unless you find an AA airline ticket that has low AA miles, I doubt I'd do that.  Better to use it at a hotel.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 10, 2016)

20000 SP => 30000 AA miles
that is a 1.5 (not 1.2)

Not saying that makes it worth it - but I did transfer some SPs to AA miles because of >50% SP devaluation for the SW hotels in NorCal that we used to stay at.


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## Scott&Laura (Nov 10, 2016)

Correct me if I am wrong

Marriott is devaluing Starpoints by about 23% if you exchange for Marriott locations

Scott


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## gregb (Nov 11, 2016)

Just a point of our experience with Ocean/Floating view and StarOptions.  We own two weeks of Deeded Ocean Front at WKORN, one developer and one resale pruchase (Thanks Syed).  

We reserved two consecutive weeks of Two Bedroom, Ocean Front for early February 2016.  The reservation was made 12 months before in 2015 and showed Ocean Front View.  A week before the occupancy, we had to cancel the Studio side for one week due to a medical issue.  Starwood graciously took the week back and credited us back the StarOptions for the week.  

In about May, I used the returned options to make a reservation for a Studio in October.  It was confirmed as floating view.  When my son checked in, he was assigned a Resort View studio.  It would have been nice if they had been upgraded to Ocean Front, but that didn't happen.

This changes in January because starting in 2017 you will be able to make StarOption reservations for Ocean Front units for a higher Options cost and based on availability.

Greg


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