# Timeshare Vacation Clubs - info/warning



## TUGBrian (Oct 29, 2013)

First draft/ RFC (for those of you in the tech world)

comments/updates/insults/things ive missed all welcome.

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare-vacation-club-warning-information.html


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## LannyPC (Dec 16, 2013)

I didn't see anything in the article mentioning that a travel club could go belly-up next week/month/year and then the member will then have nothing to show for his purchase price.

It also might be a redundant point but, for emphasis, these "discounts" that the travel clubs offer on airfare, hotels, cruises, car rentals, etc., can usually be found on free travel websites such as Travelocity, Expedia, Vacations To Go, etc.


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## presley (Dec 16, 2013)

There may be a better way to start off the article.  When I bought DVC, it was presented as a vacation club.  Marriott sells itself as a vacation club.  I think the headliner should reference that what you mean by vacation club isn't brand specific.  

If you ever tell someone who works at DVC that they are selling a timeshare, they will tell you a thousand times that they are only selling a vacation club and that it is nothing like a timeshare.  Just thinking someone who is buying/drinking koolaid DVC would be turned off by the beginning of the article and may just avoid this site altogether.


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## rhonda (Dec 17, 2013)

presley said:


> There may be a better way to start off the article.  When I bought DVC, it was presented as a vacation club.  Marriott sells itself as a vacation club.  I think the headliner should reference that what you mean by vacation club isn't brand specific.
> 
> If you ever tell someone who works at DVC that they are selling a timeshare, they will tell you a thousand times that they are only selling a vacation club and that it is nothing like a timeshare.  Just thinking someone who is buying/drinking koolaid DVC would be turned off by the beginning of the article and may just avoid this site altogether.


Agreed!



			
				Article said:
			
		

> (opinions vary on how many of these weeks get moved from the exchange pool to the rental side, but thats a discussion for another time.


Two minor things: (a) _thats/that's_ and (b) missing closing parenthesis.


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## TUGBrian (Dec 17, 2013)

the article specifically mentions the difference in vacation clubs it refers to.


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## ronparise (Dec 17, 2013)

I disagree with your underling premise ie Vacation Clubs are bad because you have to pay them for something they dont own

At their heart the Vacation Clubs are  rental brokers standing between the vacationer and the owner of the timeshare. Of course the broker could be a crook, but not all of them are.

I supply product to  vacation club, and they refer to me as a landlord. The deal has gone well for me and the vacationers and the broker.

Your statement "First and foremost, you are being asked to pay for something that truly has no product". is just not true. The product is the lease,(or reservation) and there is a real condo, made of real bricks and morter behind it.  Its no different that any lease agreement. Some people lease their home using a broker as an intermediary, and some people lease cars, using a car dealer as the intermediary. Whats wrong in with the concept of leasing a place to vacation.

I would prefer to see an article warning about the bad guys in the timeshare business, including Vacation Clubs, but not a blanket "stay away" message..


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## TUGBrian (Dec 17, 2013)

Ive yet to see any vacation club (ones specifically discussed in the article) provide any real tangible benefit to its members.

and certainly not one worth the significant purchase price.

welcome to change my mind though!


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## ronparise (Dec 17, 2013)

Brian, 

It doesnt matter to me if you believe there is value or not. What matters is what the customers of these Clubs think

I know that customers of WinPointVIP.com get their vacation accommodations for less than most Wyndham owners pay in mf (even the Platinum VIP  owners) because WinPointVIP works the system better than most. And the price they pay for membership is less than buying points on the resale market.

But the real benefit of this club is not that the members get the same accommodations for less, (they do)  its that they get what a Platinun VIP gets without an ongoing maintenance fee obligation...they pay as they go. (and as I said they generally pay less than an owner would).


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## TUGBrian (Dec 17, 2013)

so do you feel that the average person looking to get into timeshare rentals is best advised to move forward with the purchase of a "vacation club" they have been approached with buying into?

I personally think thats awful advice.


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## rhonda (Dec 17, 2013)

'Vacation Clubs' are difficult to quantify.  I belong to three -- one of which falls into the vague description of something to avoid.  
Worldmark _the Club_
Disney _Vacation Club_
WinPoint VIP
FWIW, I'm guessing my decision re: WinPoint VIP falls into a thought borrowed from your closing paragraph, "...enter into one of these programs without completely exploring exactly what you are getting before you sign any contract!"


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## pacodemountainside (Dec 17, 2013)

Have been to  pitches  in Denver, Branson, Orlando  and Vegas  and all very similar.   Price  starts   around $9,995 and  quickly comes  down to  $2K-$3K.


Presenter cannot  explain  how   some obscure privately  owned  company in Podunk with maybe  200K  members can offer better  deals, than Wyndham with 900K+,  II around 2 million and RCI with around  4 million!

Use  specious example  that  cost of  cereal  in Wheaties  box  is $.27 and by  doing away with all the  overhead they can offer  great vacation/travel   deals  on chalk board not just cheap lodging!

Purchase  contract simply states  a licensed bonded travel agent who will try  and get  best deal.

All of the ones I have checked  have  "D"  and  "F"     BBB  ratings  as no way can they deliver.


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## ronparise (Dec 17, 2013)

TUGBrian said:


> so do you feel that the average person looking to get into timeshare rentals is best advised to move forward with the purchase of a "vacation club" they have been approached with buying into?
> 
> I personally think thats awful advice.



Im not advising anyone to buy into a Vacation Club, and neither am I advising someone not to. Done right they are a nitche product perfect for some vacationers.


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## ronparise (Dec 17, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> Have been to  pitches  in Denver, Branson, Orlando  and Vegas  and all very similar.   Price  starts   around $9,995 and  quickly comes  down to  $2K-$3K.
> 
> 
> Presenter cannot  explain  how   some obscure privately  owned  company in Podunk with maybe  200K  members can offer better  deals, than Wyndham with 900K+,  II around 2 million and RCI with around  4 million!
> ...



The one I know pays Wyndham owners' maintenance fees, plus a little and then uses the points to make vacations within the Wyndham system for his Vacation Club members. He is able to deliver exactly the same resorts that are available to you as a Wyndham owner. but he does it cheaper because he only deals with Platinum points


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## easyrider (Dec 17, 2013)

I would disagree with the article. The reason is the memberships I have in Worldmark the Club and Universal Vacation Club.

Without a doubt, Worldmark is one of the best clubs to be a member of because of the flexibility, many locations and high trading power. These memberships have held a decent resale value even through the recession.

UVC is Villa del Palmar or the Villa Group in Mexico. I own a bunch of these as well. The 6 resorts in different beachside locations and the ability to travel to any of the resorts without exchanging and the fact that the newer UVC resorts are very opulent makes this club a winner. Also, mine are all RTU that should expire before me, so that makes it a winner winner chicken diner.  

Bill


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## tschwa2 (Dec 17, 2013)

easyrider said:


> I would disagree with the article. The reason is the memberships I have in Worldmark the Club and Universal Vacation Club.
> 
> Without a doubt, Worldmark is one of the best clubs to be a member of because of the flexibility, many locations and high trading power. These memberships have held a decent resale value even through the recession.
> 
> ...



Neither of your clubs are the type the article talks about. Since both of yours give you access to properties that *are* owned or operated by the club itself.



> The one we are focusing on in this topic are the Vacation Clubs that provide a "membership" only product that allows you access to properties not specifically owned or operated by the club itself.


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## easyrider (Dec 18, 2013)

Yes, both of these memberships are in clubs that actually own property.

So what are the the other " Clubs" ? Ron has posted about a Wyndham type club but doesn't Wymdham own property ?

Could you at least name a few of these clubs that you guys are talking about ?

Bill


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## pacodemountainside (Dec 18, 2013)

The one  Ron  is talking about  has  deals in place with place  with large   Wyndham  owners    who can not  use all their points, yet do not want to deal  with  rental  hassle.  The info I got from this type of  club indicates to me   a viable alternative. As I recall,  you give access to your   account so he can book anything you could and he has benefit of VIP  discounts to price  competitively.

The ones  I was referring to are  like   Roark Vacation  Club, Vacations Unlimited, VCA,   etc.  in Branson.

Check out following.



http://www.smartertravel.com/travel...vice/truth-about-vacation-clubs.html?id=16334


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## tschwa2 (Dec 18, 2013)

I know of 2.  There is TAN (travel advantage network).  You pay for a membership that has so many weeks that you then pay $599-$999 (basically there inventory seems to be left over Extra Vacations and II Getaways -no idea where the source inventory) You pay a couple of thousand for the membership (starts off high with lots of included weeks and then drops to the $2000 range for smaller memberships).  You have to pay a yearly fee as long as you are a member - which you are until you use up all your weeks or pay a fairly high transfer fee to transfer to someone else or you default.

Also CJ from EBay has a vacation club Carefree Journeys.  I don't know the details but you pay to become a member and then you pay when you book a week.


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## ronparise (Dec 18, 2013)

http://vacationstrategy.com/

winpointvip.com

These are two organized pretty much the way Paco described


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## dioxide45 (Dec 18, 2013)

The problem here is that the timeshare companies use the term timeshare and vacation club synchronously. In fact they prefer to be called a Vacation Club in most cases since it doesn't carry the negative annotation that the term timeshare does.


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## easyrider (Dec 18, 2013)

So is " Vacation Club" a misleading term ? I have heard of some product simalar while attending presentations in Mexico. Vida had a deal where you could pay to have the right to use their low end inventory by paying a mf. It wasn't called a club but it was a pay to use type membership.

The smarter travels site looks and feel like expedia , the vaction strategy site looks like most any of the sites linked in the signatures at tug. The Roark site felt like a broker who likes Branson. Are these anything other than rentals being offered ?

In fact, the care free journeys site actually makes a few good points for people that like resort condo vacations and not have the hassle of actually owning a ts. For most people this would be a plus. 

Bill


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## pacodemountainside (Dec 18, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> The problem here is that the timeshare companies use the term timeshare and vacation club synchronously. In fact they prefer to be called a Vacation Club in most cases since it doesn't carry the negative annotation that the term timeshare does.





A  mouthful!

"syn·chro·nous   adjective \ˈsiŋ-krə-nəs, ˈsin-\

: happening, moving, or existing at the same time


Full Definition of SYNCHRONOUS


:  happening, existing, or arising at precisely the same time 


:  recurring or operating at exactly the same periods 

:  involving or indicating synchronism 


a:  having the same period; also:  having the same period and phase 

b:  geostationary 

:  of, used in, or being digital communication (as between computers) in which a common timing signal is established that dictates when individual bits can be transmitted and which allows for very high rates of data transfer 

— syn·chro·nous·ly  adverb 

— syn·chro·nous·ness   noun" 


I will go with interchangeably  or maybe substituting.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 18, 2013)

pacodemountainside said:


> A  mouthful!
> 
> "syn·chro·nous   adjective \ˈsiŋ-krə-nəs, ˈsin-\
> 
> ...



Whoops , that word was a result of a bad spell check pick. It was supposed to be synonymously. Which doesn't come up in the Google spell check resulting in the wrong pick when I did spell check.


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## easyrider (Dec 19, 2013)

Readers might need examples of " Vacation Clubs" to understand the difference of a broker owned fee based club and a membership with any other TS system that ends in "CLUB". 
Worldmark the Club
Hilton Garden Vacation Club
Marriott Vacation Club
Universal Vacation Club
Disney Vacation Club

These are different than a ts brokers club but even then all of these types of clubs have differences as well.

Timeshare Angels has what is called the "Opportunity Club" that provides a great value to Worldmark owners.

Since the article is targeting newbes maybe it should include the fact that buying any type of vacation plan from the developers or brokers is considered a no no but buying resale is worth considering after doing some research. 

Also the new saying should change from " Buy Resale" to include "Rent First". 

Bill


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