# DVC v Wyndham



## macman123 (Feb 27, 2020)

Hello all

I have been to the DVC presentation.

I want 1.5 weeks a year (or 3 weeks every other year) at a Disney property.

500 points plus discount is $86,500. Annual dues around $4000.

Went to Wyndham presentation - 100k points is $25,000.

I need 63,000 points per year for a Disney property via RCI plus $125 per week. 

Annual dues around $900

But I have read so many negative reviews of Wyndham.

I would only use for Walt Disney World properties. Generally no other on property non Disney hotels.

Wyndham seems far cheaper but too good to be true?

Thanks


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## montygz (Feb 27, 2020)

You can get 100K Wyndham points for free or for very little -- like $1.

Before you make any moves, I suggest you spend a lot of time studying about timeshare systems. You can make an expensive mistake, like paying $25K for a timeshare worth $1.

If all you want are DVC properties, you will likely be disappointed in trying to find a cheaper way to get there. Through RCI, 99.9% of the availability at DVC is 1BR units at Saratoga Springs.

The negative reviews about the Wyndham generally are because of their sales tactics. Few people think positively about the experience of paying $25K for a resort they can buy on Ebay for $1.

As for staying in timeshares, Wyndham has some great properties, like Bonnet Creek. Overall, staying in timeshares is not the issue, it is how they are sold and the neverending costs of ownership. 

As for DVC, that is an expensive way to go. In addition to the costs of ownership, you also have the costs of going to Disneyworld, which is also not cheap and goes up 8% a year. I hope your income goes up at the same rate as Disney tickets. Sadly, mine does not.

You can also buy DVC on the secondary market, but Disney has been working to make that less attractive by adding restrictions. As time goes on, restrictions usually result in a weak resale market, which means getting out of DVC could be costly.

Think long and hard and study up before you do anything. Timesharing can be rewarding, but there are many risks to avoid.


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## bnoble (Feb 27, 2020)

It is not a good idea to buy System X in order to exclusively stay in System Y’s resorts via third party exchange. Buying Wyndham (or anything not named DVC) in order to stay at DVC resorts regularly is a recipe for disappointment. Exchange requires patience, flexibility, and nerves of steel. Much harder than booking directly.


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## Jan M. (Feb 27, 2020)

Here on TUG we tell people if there is somewhere specific you want to go then you should buy there to get what you want. If you are only wanting to book the Disney World resorts that are actually on Disney property and get all the Disney benefits then you should buy DVC points not Wyndham points. 

Yes you could buy Wyndham points that you would have to deposit into RCI to do an exchange into a Disney World resort. However finding what you want is very hit and miss. Probably more miss. Also I don't see availability for stays of less than a week at the Disney World resorts through RCI. So you can book one week or two weeks but not 1.5 weeks. And good luck getting two consecutive weeks. It can happen but not that often and if it did the only resort you would be likely to get two consecutive weeks at would be Saratoga Springs Resort.


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## paxsarah (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I need 63,000 points per year for a Disney property via RCI plus $125 per week.



A correction here, it takes 105,000 Wyndham points for most weeks at DVC, occasionally 126,000. Exchange fee is $239 plus Disney’s $190 incoming exchanger fee.

The pitfalls are that you can’t depend on any particular week being available. Many weeks are, but some weeks aren’t. If you do make an exchange, it’s about 95% likely to be a 1BR at Saratoga Springs. You will only be exchanging 2-5 months in advance, so no 180+10 dining reservations. It’s pretty difficult to find thanksgiving, Easter, or New Years, or to a lesser extent food and wine season or Christmas. Flexibility and backup plans are key. And all of this is subject to change at any time. The whole exchange pattern could shift radically as we’ve seen in the past.

That said, Bonnet Creek is a good alternative. But if what you want is DVC, the only way to guarantee it is by buying DVC.


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## Dean (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Hello all
> 
> I have been to the DVC presentation.
> 
> ...


Don't buy something else to trade into Disney, too many variables and limitations.  If you buy to trade in I can guarantee it won't work out well.  If you want to stay at DVC, buy there but buy resale or if the pass discounts are a BIG benefit to you, buy the minimum retail to get that and resale buying the resale first.  Don't buy DVC for other travel including cruises or other timeshare through RCI.  IMO those are absolutes and it seems to fit in with your stated plans.  You likely shouldn't buy this as one contract anyway so you may want to buy one midsized contract and give it a try then maybe a second at a different resort.  Then IF you'd get a big actual benefit from the pass discounts, I'd buy the minimum currently 100 pts retail as the last step.  Plan it out now but proceed in stages.  If you proceed you need to learn about Use Year and decide if you want 1 or 2, usually 1 is better for most, esp if they are new to the system.  I believe the choice of UY is extremely important.  Take your time, don't rush to get that next trip on points as a "savings".


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## bnoble (Feb 27, 2020)

Dean said:


> buying the resale first.


Dean, can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm not sure I understand why the order matters...


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## macman123 (Feb 27, 2020)

I am not interested in the perks. But I would stay 3 consecutive weeks every 2 years.

Does that change the opinion?


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## bnoble (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Does that change the opinion?


It strengthens mine. If you want to spend three *consecutive* weeks at a Disney resort every two years, you should buy DVC and completely forget the idea of trying to use RCI exchanges. Trying to line up consecutive weeks via exchange will be maddeningly difficult. You probably *do* want to at least consider the annual pass discount unless you do not plan to visit the theme parks more than ten days total per visit.


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## presley (Feb 27, 2020)

You cannot every count on exchanging into DVC. You are much better off renting from Disney or another owner than buying a different timeshare and trying to exchange it for DVC.

As far as purchasing DVC - please read all the DVC forums and look at the many resale brokers before you buy anything. It's a very expensive thing to own and if it won't work for the way that you vacation, you'll be disappointed. If/when you decide to buy, you can save a significant amount of money buying resale and you can buy at the exact resort that you want vs. buying whatever Disney has available. You can find any size contract at any resort if you look for it. You have lots of time and lots of resources to look through and ponder before you make a purchase. If you are itching to use a DVC property right away, you can rent from another owner or a large broker.


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## presley (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I am not interested in the perks. But I would stay 3 consecutive weeks every 2 years.
> 
> Does that change the opinion?


Wow, yes. There's no way you can do that via exchanging. I recommend buying resale. Choose your main resort  - the one that you want to visit most often, pick your weeks (the points needed to stay are variable throughout the year) figure out how many you need for your stay, divide in half (you will bank/borrow for your stays) and start cruising the resale websites. I highly recommend the timeshare store and resalesdvc. I have positive experience with both.


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## paxsarah (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I would generally be staying for 3 consecutive weeks, but every 2 years.
> 
> Does that change your view?
> 
> Thanks in advance



All of the pitfalls I mentioned above would still apply. In addition, is it three specific weeks (like, I need to arrive on April 17 and leave on May 8), or any three weeks (like, anytime in April-June will do, for instance)? Additional pitfalls would be it's pretty fiddly to try to get three consecutive weeks in RCI exchanges. You can't control what check-in day happens to be deposited for exchange - so for instance, for our Spring Break week, I may not know whether the DVC deposits in RCI are going to be Friday, Saturday, or Sunday check-in, or possible more than one of those available (or none at all, though we haven't run into that yet personally). So if you're trying to string three weeks together, you'd be hoping for all three check-ins on the same day of the week, but you might not get it. You might have overlapping nights or gaps where you need to book 1 night with cash.


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## MaryBella7 (Feb 27, 2020)

There is an exchange fee of $239 required to book your reservation with RCI. This fee is subject to change. Also, I am pretty sure each week will be a separate booking, so that is $239 x 3 plus Disney's fees.
Points may not be borrowed to complete an RCI exchange deposit. 
Points from different Use Years may not be combined to make an exchange deposit. You will need the full 3 weeks of points in the year you want to use them, so you would either need EOY points or be ready to use Wyndham on your non-disney years.
I have never exchanged to Disney properties - do you still get the use of their transportation or other perks?
Very unlikely to get 3 consecutive weeks.


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## littlestar (Feb 27, 2020)

The only thing that comes up in RCI for the most part is Saratoga 1 bedrooms. And it takes anywhere from 77,000 to 126,000 Wyndham points to exchange for it (depending on time of year).  You would have a $239 RCI trade fee and $190 resort fee paid to Disney at the front desk. Wyndham resorts have various maintenance fees depending on where you own. Whatever you do, don’t buy Wyndham retail.  We paid around $450 dollars all in for 105,000 points at Wyndham Grand Desert and $750 for 154,000 at Grand Desert. Wyndham Grand Desert has low fees.

I would never buy a timeshare specifically to trade into another system only.  No way.  Now if you told me you wanted Wyndham points to go to Wyndham Waikiki Beachwalk, Wyndham Great Smokies Lodge in Pigeon Forge, or for Wyndham Bonnet Creek in Orlando with an occasional trade into a 1 bedroom Disney Saratoga thru RCI my answer would be different.  DVC used to be with Interval International as their exchange partner and they could switch back or go to something entirely different via their own Buena Vista Trading Company.

Lining up consecutive trades into SSR would be a headache, not to mention certain times of the year are not deposited into RCI.

I would look for some resale DVC points. Don’t buy all 500 points in one contract.  Look for 150 to 200 or so in a first contract to get your feet wet and watch the expiration dates (some DVC’s expire in 2042).  If you love DVC as much as it seems from your post, buy some DVC.  That way you will have access to something else besides a possible trade into Saratoga (which would get pretty boring real quick and I own there - ha).  DVC has an 11 month booking window for your home resort and 7 month window for the other resorts.  If you buy resale at Disney’s newest resort Riviera you would be restricted to only staying there.  If you buy resale at one of the original 14 DVC’s you can stay at any of the original 14 starting at the 7 month booking window.


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I would generally be staying for 3 consecutive weeks, but every 2 years.
> 
> Does that change your view?
> 
> Thanks in advance


Buy DVC. Playing the DVC availability game for three consecutive weeks would be difficult. Some DVC weeks on RCI priority go for 85K RCI points. That’s owning an RCI points contract somewhere. If you buy Wyndham you’ll be booking DVC Through the Wyndham portal and the point assignments are different. Don’t forget, three weeks times 3 exchange fees and 3 DVC fees. That alone is 1287 plus the annual fees needed for the amount of points for DVC exchanges we average at, 2-3K, and your annual fees are around that same as owning DVC. That makes owning DVC the better option. Let’s not forget you’ll actually be able to get your availability with owning DVC. you can buy resale and get the original 14 resorts. If you wanted one week a year or every other then I’d say buy an RCI Contract and play the OGS game. In your case, you need to own DVC.


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

While I agree with everyone here saying buy DVC, I disagree on not buying X to trade into Y. While in the case of trading into DVC that may make sense depending on when you want to travel it will be extremely limited. In general, buying X to get Y could be beneficial. I own orlando properties and trade into every other resort and have never used my “home” resort. Buying to trade can be a good thing. Buying RCI to trade into DVC can be difficult. While I did just that, I’m not restricted to holiday/school schedules so as long as I see an open week I’ll book it. It all depends on your needs

based on your needs........ you need to own DVC


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## paxsarah (Feb 27, 2020)

MaryBella7 said:


> Points from different Use Years may not be combined to make an exchange deposit. You will need the full 3 weeks of points in the year you want to use them, so you would either need EOY points or be ready to use Wyndham on your non-disney years.



This actually is the most manageable part of the situation. Although points from different years can't be combined in the same deposit on the Wyndham side, they will all combine in RCI and they are good there for two years. That is, as of March 1 of a given year (or the first day of the third month if not a Jan UY), I can make two deposits from Wyndham consecutively - one with this year's points, and one with next year's points. It will take two reservation transactions, which is basically what Wyndham is saying when they say "may not be combined to make an exchange deposit." Then in RCI all of the points can be used together in one pool.

That said, I looked at the DVC spreadsheet in the sightings board, and without getting into specifics, the complexities of trying to get 3 consecutive weeks would really be too much to make this worthwhile. Many weeks of the year are represented, but the sighting dates of consecutive weeks were not necessarily at or around the same time - which means maybe you'd get week 1 and week 3, but week 2 doesn't show up for another month. Or maybe it doesn't show up at all. And the check-in days of the week were really erratic, such that in most months I didn't see three consecutive weeks that had the same check-in day. It would be a mess to try to coordinate, and you'd end up patching things together with single nights or overlaps.

If I didn't want to purchase DVC but I wanted a trip like this, I'd definitely rent from an owner.


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## paxsarah (Feb 27, 2020)

CPNY said:


> plus the annual fees needed for the amount of points for DVC exchanges we average at, 2-3K



The Wyndham maintenance fees on the typical DVC exchange for, say, a CWA owner would be $725. Plus the $239 exchange fee and Disney's $190 fee, that's $1154.
The cheapest week in a SSR standard 1BR is 164 DVC points. SSR's per-point MFs are $6.765. That would cost that DVC owner $1109 - almost the same, really. And if we chose any other season, exchanging with Wyndham CWA ownership is cheaper. But exchanging is much, much, much more limited, as well as subject to change. That's fine if your need is, say, one week at SSR during the month of June, and if your attitude is that, well, if I can't get that, Bonnet Creek is an adequate substitute I'll be happy with. But the more requirements you load upon it, the less likely it is to work out. There are a lot of arguments against the OP's plan, but actually the cost via Wyndham isn't one of them (assuming it could be executed).


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## raygo123 (Feb 27, 2020)

What you want to do is impossible. B
Wyndham at bonnet creek is your best bet.

Sent from my LG-SP200 using Tapatalk


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> The Wyndham maintenance fees on the typical DVC exchange for, say, a CWA owner would be $725. Plus the $239 exchange fee and Disney's $190 fee, that's $1154.
> The cheapest week in a SSR standard 1BR is 164 DVC points. SSR's per-point MFs are $6.765. That would cost that DVC owner $1109 - almost the same, really. And if we chose any other season, exchanging with Wyndham CWA ownership is cheaper. But exchanging is much, much, much more limited, as well as subject to change. That's fine if your need is, say, one week at SSR during the month of June, and if your attitude is that, well, if I can't get that, Bonnet Creek is an adequate substitute I'll be happy with. But the more requirements you load upon it, the less likely it is to work out. There are a lot of arguments against the OP's plan, but actually the cost via Wyndham isn't one of them (assuming it could be executed).


Right, so 1109 DVC x 3 is $3327 and Wyndham with all the fees is 1154 x 3 = $3462, owning DVC is a better option. Like you said, loading more requirements for relatively the same annual fees doesn’t make it worth it. I only say annual fees because that’s what the OP listed in their annual dues Vs annual dues. 4000 to 900 as stated.


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Hello all
> 
> I have been to the DVC presentation.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind if you own Wyndham in Orlando you won’t be able to book DVC


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## wjappraise (Feb 27, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Keep in mind if you own Wyndham in Orlando you won’t be able to book DVC



Not true in my experience. I own bonnet creek and have booked at least 10 DVC weeks via RCI. My guess is the Wyndham points based ownership doesn’t flag the home resort. 

Of course my smaller sample size might mean my success is just a coincidence. But I’m probably right. 

Wes.


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

wjappraise said:


> Not true in my experience. I own bonnet creek and have booked at least 10 DVC weeks via RCI. My guess is the Wyndham points based ownership doesn’t flag the home resort.
> 
> Of course my smaller sample size might mean my success is just a coincidence. But I’m probably right.
> 
> Wes.


Well according to everyone here and supposed rules, if you own in Orlando you can’t use that ownership to book DVC. Maybe because Wyndham owns RCI, they don’t have to abide by their own or DVC rules. Maybe the rules just don’t apply to Wyndham owners then. But every piece of advice I’ve heard is if you own in Orlando you can’t use that ownership or points to book DVC.


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## macman123 (Feb 27, 2020)

Ok  -lets compare what I would pay.

The three weeks every 2 years.

DVC would be 500 points at $8 annual dues x2 year (1.5 weeks a year) = $8000
Wyndham would be (i am going low season for 3 consec weeks) $900 per year dues approx = $1800.

Then the $125 a week RC fee, thats it.

The initial outlay of DVC if direct is $85k, resale would be around $60.

Wyndam outlay of $25k or resale less than $5k.


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## rhonda (Feb 27, 2020)

bnoble said:


> Dean, can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm not sure I understand why the order matters...


My first impression:  Because it is easier to match Use Year, thus have the multiple contracts align under the same Member Number.

Purchases direct from the Developer always attempt, unless the member argues against, to match the member's _existing_ Use Year.  However, trying to find a "perfect resale" (Resort, # of points, price _and Use Year_) can be a real struggle.


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## macman123 (Feb 27, 2020)

I tend to stay early December or January every other year.
Quiet times according to the DVC calender.......
But DVC is so just damn expensive.
I would want 500 points so thats $4k a year in just fees.

Thats $8k for every 2 years for a 3 week (every 2 year) stay!


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## rhonda (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I tend to stay early December or January every other year.
> Quiet times according to the DVC calender.......
> But DVC is so just damn expensive.
> I would want 500 points so thats $4k a year in just fees.
> ...


Early Dec is extremely hard to book inside the DVC system.  The label "Quiet Season" is related to Park Crowds not demand for the DVC units themselves.  The combination of "low # of points required" for stays booked during this period with the holiday decorations make the period an this an irresistible draw. If you own/owned DVC, you would likely need to book immediately upon on open of the Home Resort priority window (11 months from travel) and may need to "walk" the reservation depending on the resort and desired unit type.

With DVC, there is _strong_ demand for the "cheapest units":  Studios, Value view, lowest cost seasons.  Some will be successful in getting these ... and others will, from necessity, book larger units or more expensive views, etc.

DVC has been OK for us as we enjoy large units, even when traveling as a couple w/out family or friends joining.  A cabin for two?  Yes, please and thank you.

My overall suggestion:  Rent DVC through one of the big brokers.  You'll be paying something over the dues rate but saving the initial capital.  The offset between rental rate and dues might be covered by investing the capital?  And who knows ... you might be bored sick of Disney as a destination in a few years.  Thus renting saves you from the costs and grief of buying/selling.

Best wishes with your research!!


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## paxsarah (Feb 27, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Well according to everyone here and supposed rules, if you own in Orlando you can’t use that ownership to book DVC. Maybe because Wyndham owns RCI, they don’t have to abide by their own or DVC rules. Maybe the rules just don’t apply to Wyndham owners then. But every piece of advice I’ve heard is if you own in Orlando you can’t use that ownership or points to book DVC.



If you search the forums, you'll see that "everyone here" agrees that mini-systems like Wyndham (but not limited to Wyndham) aren't subject to DVC's regional block.


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## bnoble (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Ok -lets compare what I would pay.


Please, stop, for your own sanity. You are not even sort of listening to what people say to you, possibly because you don't want to hear it. 

For example, the $125/week overhead is flat wrong. It is more like $430 when you include both the RCI exchange fee ($239) and DVC nuisance fee ($190) per week. The times of year you want to go will coast you 105K Wyndham points per exchange, or 315K. (The 77K weeks tend to be in September when the heat and humidity in Orlando approximates Hades.) If you had a "good" MF at $6/K, your total is nearly $3200, so about double what you have in mind.

Even if you were 100% correct on your cost comparisons (you are not) there's still the matter that what you are trying to do (three weeks, back-to-back-to-back) is going to be insanely difficult via RCI. If your time has _any value at all_ the amount of time you are going to spend trying to make this happen is going to eat up a chunk of that savings pretty quickly. Finally, trying to do this even if you are successful is going to be stressful, and that alone is worth something.

I'm a hardcore exchanger, and get one week in a DVC resort using Wyndham points (at a very good $/K ratio) most years. Even I would not try what you are considering, and I know my way around this because I've been doing it a long time. I get that you are trying to talk yourself into this, but I don't think you will find a single long-term TUGger who will tell you this is a good idea.

Yes, it's going to cost you real money to do this. But, DVC commands premium pricing and the people who own it generally find it a good value. If that's what you want to do, and you have the means to do it, that's what money is for: spending. Spend it.


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> If you search the forums, you'll see that "everyone here" agrees that mini-systems like Wyndham (but not limited to Wyndham) aren't subject to DVC's regional block.


Interesting, then I was given wrong information..... can’t fault me when people give incorrect information.


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## paxsarah (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> DVC would be 500 points at $8 annual dues x2 year (1.5 weeks a year) = $8000



500 points per year, so 1,000 points for each 3-week trip? What resort and size unit do you think you need? Remember that all you can really expect through RCI is SSR 1BRs. Maybe the DVC dues seem so high to you because you're overestimating the number of points you need.


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> 500 points per year, so 1,000 points for each 3-week trip? What resort and size unit do you think you need? Remember that all you can really expect through RCI is SSR 1BRs. Maybe the DVC dues seem so high to you because you're overestimating the number of points you need.


They could buy a house in Orlando and rent it out and it would make more sense lol.


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## wjappraise (Feb 27, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Well according to everyone here and supposed rules, if you own in Orlando you can’t use that ownership to book DVC. Maybe because Wyndham owns RCI, they don’t have to abide by their own or DVC rules. Maybe the rules just don’t apply to Wyndham owners then. But every piece of advice I’ve heard is if you own in Orlando you can’t use that ownership or points to book DVC.



Ok. But actual experience should be more reliable and valid than “everyone here” speaking on hypotheticals.


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## raygo123 (Feb 27, 2020)

bnoble said:


> Please, stop, for your own sanity. You are not even sort of listening to what people say to you, possibly because you don't want to hear it.
> 
> For example, the $125/week overhead is flat wrong. It is more like $430 when you include both the RCI exchange fee ($239) and DVC nuisance fee ($190) per week. The times of year you want to go will coast you 105K Wyndham points per exchange, or 315K. (The 77K weeks tend to be in September when the heat and humidity in Orlando approximates Hades.) If you had a "good" MF at $6/K, your total is nearly $3200, so about double what you have in mind.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you chimed in. It is impossible. I use RCI ALOT. Go on RCI MEMBERS FOR MEMBERS. Site if you want answered. The only chance if what you want to do with Wyndham is at Saratoga springs. And that's near impossible. It is not a matter of money it's availability. Even DVC resle buyers don't have full benefits.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


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## Dean (Feb 27, 2020)

bnoble said:


> Dean, can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm not sure I understand why the order matters...


It's just easier to match them up and combine for UY.  Finding the right resale to match up for the UY of a retail can be difficult to impossible, the reverse is almost never true other than for possibly a fixed week or maybe VGF or VGC.


macman123 said:


> I am not interested in the perks. But I would stay 3 consecutive weeks every 2 years.
> 
> Does that change the opinion?


Resale only, don't expect to exchange in.  Just buy one then a second if and only if the first works out as you think it will.  That'll mean you'll be behind to start with and that's OK, better than spending a boatload of money and then finding out it doesn't fit.  A good contract can get you that next visit at 250 or so points but realize DVC is not a big saver compared to renting privately though it does save you incrementally over time.


CPNY said:


> While I agree with everyone here saying buy DVC, I disagree on not buying X to trade into Y. While in the case of trading into DVC that may make sense depending on when you want to travel it will be extremely limited. In general, buying X to get Y could be beneficial. I own orlando properties and trade into every other resort and have never used my “home” resort. Buying to trade can be a good thing. Buying RCI to trade into DVC can be difficult. While I did just that, I’m not restricted to holiday/school schedules so as long as I see an open week I’ll book it. It all depends on your needs
> 
> based on your needs........ you need to own DVC


IMO it's almost never a good idea for someone new to timesharing to buy with exchanging as the main goal with very limited exceptions and even then they need to investigate more and longer first.


CPNY said:


> Keep in mind if you own Wyndham in Orlando you won’t be able to book DVC


Not true.  It could happen but the points systems like Wyndham & Bluegreen have not fallen afoul of the regional RCI restrictions.  This could change and one needs to know that but I think it's unlikely.  OTOH, buying a points system like Wyndham for non DVC stays can be a great choice.


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

Dean said:


> IMO it's almost never a good idea for someone new to timesharing to buy with exchanging as the main goal with very limited exceptions and even then they need to investigate more and longer first.



I can agree with that, someone new to timesharing should most likely just jump right in with a points based ownership where you have flexibility to book within a system. It’s how I approached picking up the RCI points ownership. I can easily use the points to book ah resort in RCI, never going to the home resort.


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## Pathways (Feb 27, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Keep in mind if you own Wyndham in Orlando you won’t be able to book DVC





CPNY said:


> Well according to everyone here and supposed rules, if you own in Orlando you can’t use that ownership to book DVC. Maybe because Wyndham owns RCI, they don’t have to abide by their own or DVC rules. Maybe the rules just don’t apply to Wyndham owners then. But every piece of advice I’ve heard is if you own in Orlando you can’t use that ownership or points to book DVC





CPNY said:


> Interesting, then I was given wrong information..... can’t fault me when people give incorrect information.



We need to nip this one in the bud.  I'm not sure who 'everyone here' is, or why he/she is handing out incorrect info, but this is NOT correct. (I have always seen a correction soon after someone posts this). These are not just rules applying to Wyndham, but they are the same rules for all.

HGVC, Wyndham etc - (any point based timeshare in Orlando) has no issues trading into a DVC.   This rule applies to a WEEK owner in Orlando who is trying to trade that week back into DVC .    When you are simply depositing 'points', RCI has no way of knowing where they came from, therefore no booking issues.


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

Pathways said:


> We need to nip this one in the bud.  I'm not sure who 'everyone here' is, or why he/she is handing out incorrect info, but this is NOT correct. (I have always seen a correction soon after someone posts this). These are not just rules applying to Wyndham, but they are the same rules for all.
> 
> HGVC, Wyndham - (any point based timeshare in Orlando) has no issues trading into a DVC.   This rule applies to a WEEK owner in Orlando who is trying to trade back into DVC .    When you are simply depositing 'points', RCI has no way of knowing where they came from, therefore no booking issues.


The info given to me was incorrect then when I asked about “if I purchased Wyndham bonnet creek” I would be able to use Wyndham system and DVC exchanges and was told nope! All Orlando properties can’t trade back in. I would have easily went into the Wyndham system


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## bnoble (Feb 27, 2020)

Pathways said:


> HGVC, Wyndham etc - (any point based timeshare in Orlando) has no issues trading into a DVC.   This rule applies to a WEEK owner in Orlando who is trying to trade that week back into DVC .    When you are simply depositing 'points', RCI has no way of knowing where they came from, therefore no booking issues.


Just to clarify for those who don't notice the distinction: Pathways is talking about *points-based mini-systems that have dedicated portals to RCI Weeks Inventory. *These include Wyndham, WorldMark, HGVC, and HIVC; there may others. Some of these also have access to RCI Points inventory via those portals; for example, I believe HGVC does, as do WorldMark accounts with TravelShare. In any of these systems, it does not matter if your underlying ownership includes reservation rights or deeded access to an Orlando resort; you are not excluded.

Someone who has a "straight RCI Points" ownership cannot exchange into DVC if any of their points-based ownerships are in the excluded geographic area. This doesn't come up all that often, but for example you would not want to own a Vacation Village @ Parkway RCI Points week if your plan was to use RCI Points to exchange into DVC.

An interesting question that I don't know the answer to: what happens if you use an Orlando-area Weeks deposit in a Points For Deposit transaction to a Points account that otherwise has no Orlando exposure? It may irrevocably taint the Points account, but I do not know.


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## Bailey#1 (Feb 27, 2020)

To the OP there is no guarantee that RCI will always exchange with DVC.  Years ago (2008) DVC only exchanged with Interval International.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Ok  -lets compare what I would pay.
> 
> The three weeks every 2 years.
> 
> ...


What?  I just traded into DVC for our week in May with Wyndham points.  It was 105,000 points, $239 exchange fee, and I have to pay $190 to Disney.  I don't know where you get your numbers, but do not listen to a salesperson!  They are only after your money.   The only thing you can get is really Saratoga Springs, but that is okay with me, so I book it.  Fortunately, Saratoga Springs is getting an update.

You can buy resale Disney for about half of retail.  The only benefit you do not get is Annual Pass discount, but if you live in Florida, you get that discount anyway.   I wouldn't buy Wyndham to get Disney.  As Dana Carvey said in his GH Bush voice, "That wouldn't be prudent."  I can just hear him in my head.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 27, 2020)

And Disney retains most of its value, and most especially resale DVC.  We bought quite a while ago, I want to say 10 years? and our resale points are worth double what we paid.  Why buy something that loses 99.999% of the value when your rescission period is over?   If you have to buy Wyndham, buy resale, but don't buy it for any purpose other than to use it yourself at Wyndham properties.  You cannot get rid of these Wyndham contracts.  The people who sell on eBay are making money from owners who want to get rid of their units.  It's all sleazy.


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## paxsarah (Feb 27, 2020)

CPNY said:


> The info given to me was incorrect then when I asked about “if I purchased Wyndham bonnet creek” I would be able to use Wyndham system and DVC exchanges and was told nope! All Orlando properties can’t trade back in. I would have easily went into the Wyndham system


You were corrected on this 3 weeks ago. I don't know where you got the original information, though. The confusion may be that RCI Points based at an Orlando resort cannot be used to exchange into DVC; mini-systems that are internally points-based and access RCI via a dedicated portal are fine.


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## djohn06 (Feb 27, 2020)

I own at Disney and Wyndham.  You estimated maint fees at 4K a year for 500 points and 86k to buy into Disney direct.  

You should keep the 86k in your pocket and find an owner to rent disney weeks from.  You won’t be able to do 3 consecutive week exchanges via RCI into Saratoga consistently.


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## macman123 (Feb 27, 2020)

Well I have brought 500 DVC points direct from Disney today


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## Pathways (Feb 27, 2020)

OK Tuggers - How's that for fast action!!

Joined Tug today, asked for opinions, got different points of view, and drops the 80K + cash for a purchase.  I think we've got a happy DVC owner here, what say you?


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## CPNY (Feb 27, 2020)

paxsarah said:


> You were corrected on this 3 weeks ago. I don't know where you got the original information, though. The confusion may be that RCI Points based at an Orlando resort cannot be used to exchange into DVC; mini-systems that are internally points-based and access RCI via a dedicated portal are fine.


Yeah I totally forgot. In the process I purchased an RCI points account.


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## rhonda (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Well I have brought 500 DVC points direct from Disney today


Wow!  "Welcome Home!" as is said for DVC and _Congratulations_.

So, which resort?  Which Use Year (UY)?
Why did you pick that particular resort and UY? (What makes each special to you?)

DVC will help you book your first reservation under their "Welcome Home Reservation."  This is a special assistance for the 1st reservation only and can sometimes book something not currently available to the membership.  (That is, sometimes DVC will pull strings on that first reservation to make it 'magical.')  Use it to snag something on your "dream list," if possible.


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## macman123 (Feb 27, 2020)

I was riveria. Renews September. But I have been given 2019 points free with no dues 

it’s a new hotel but I would book 1 bed villa go even booking at GF and Bay Lake shouldn’t be a problem!


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## rhonda (Feb 27, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I was riveria. Renews September. But I have been given 2019 points free with no dues
> 
> it’s a new hotel but I would book 1 bed villa go even booking at GF and Bay Lake shouldn’t be a problem!


I just checked 1BR inventory for the first two weeks of Dec 2020 at Riviera, BLT and GF.  Reservations are still inside the "home resort" window so you can't book except for your own resort.

*Riviera* had only the 1BR Preferred view available. 568 points for Dec 1-15 (14 nights).
The less expensive Standard View had _most_ of the nights available but there were holes.  The longest block was 5 nights.
*Bay Lake Tower* had only partial stays available. The longest available stay in a single room type is *6 nights*, 1BR Standard view, 168 points for Dec 9-15 (6 nights). Lake View had 4 nights; Theme Park had only 3 nights.
*Grand Floridian* had only partial stays available.  The longest available stay in a single room is *3 nights*, in either Standard View (115 points, Dec 11-14) or Lake View (128 points, Dec 12-15).
As mentioned earlier, for early December please plan to book as early as possible, 11 months from travel, at your home resort.  Do not plan on successful booking at non-home resorts except for short stays or split stays (where you move from room to room, resort to resort).

Edit:  By the way, did the resale restrictions on Riviera have any influence on your decision process?

Edit #2:  Do read up quickly on Banking your points. The Sept 2019 points must be either used in the current Use Year (before Aug 31, 2020) or _banked_ into Sept 2020 before the end of April 2020.  Don't miss the banking window if you hope to use the Sept 2019 points for travel in December 2020 or January 2021!


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## Dean (Feb 28, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I was riveria. Renews September. But I have been given 2019 points free with no dues
> 
> it’s a new hotel but I would book 1 bed villa go even booking at GF and Bay Lake shouldn’t be a problem!


The points are not free, you're just getting this years points and for a resale, you could potentially get  the same or more points.  The only truly benefits in this area you get through DVC are that you can bank up until the last day and you get a slight break on the dues.  If your stays are mostly Dec/Jan, a Dec UY is far better than a Sept UY.  Since this thread is about whether and what you should buy and you are still within your cancelation window, I'm going to suggest you continue to think through your options and investigate.  I would only recommend someone buy Riviera if they wanted to stay there most of the time, at 7 months out getting the higher demand locations can be difficult.  I still think that resale is the best option for the situation you described, esp since the pass discounts don't give you a major savings.


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## macman123 (Feb 28, 2020)

Re restriction - this is a really bad restriction, but I did know about it. I have checked resale websites and they still go for around $145 a point. But it didnt change my decision, they are clever ways around it

Banking - yes, I intend to do that asap! I may look at other resorts such as the Animal Kingdom. Or could even split resorts, the sales chap said they would move your bags for you.


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## littlestar (Feb 28, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I was riveria. Renews September. But I have been given 2019 points free with no dues
> 
> it’s a new hotel but I would book 1 bed villa go even booking at GF and Bay Lake shouldn’t be a problem!


You can buy Copper Creek (or pretty much any resort except for Grand Californian) direct from Disney and you would not be stuck with Riviera’s resale restriction  if you ever had to sell.  Plus the dues are high and point charts are high, too.  I would break up the contracts into at least two contracts in case you ever needed to sell one or all because it is easier to sell smaller contracts.


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## Pathways (Feb 28, 2020)

Dean said:


> The points are not free, you're just getting this years points



Dean - isn't a year's worth of points with no dues 'free'?  On any direct buy, a good Disney guide will tell you what use year to buy to get an extra years worth of points.

I agree that a Sept use year is not the 'best' for anticipated stays Dec/Jan, but I would not want a Dec.  If a Dec stay creeps into the last days of Nov, a Dec use year can be problematic as a reservation may extend between use years.  With banking and borrowing, a stay that bridges two use years is a real pain


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## Dean (Feb 28, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Re restriction - this is a really bad restriction, but I did know about it. I have checked resale websites and they still go for around $145 a point. But it didnt change my decision, they are clever ways around it
> 
> Banking - yes, I intend to do that asap! I may look at other resorts such as the Animal Kingdom. Or could even split resorts, the sales chap said they would move your bags for you.


You could buy SSR for a lot less, that and BLT would be the cheapest long term.


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## Dean (Feb 28, 2020)

Pathways said:


> Dean - isn't a year's worth of points with no dues 'free'?  On any direct buy, a good Disney guide will tell you what use year to buy to get an extra years worth of points.
> 
> I agree that a Sept use year is not the 'best' for anticipated stays Dec/Jan, but I would not want a Dec.  If a Dec stay creeps into the last days of Nov, a Dec use year can be problematic as a reservation may extend between use years.  With banking and borrowing, a stay that bridges two use years is a real pain


No they're just giving you this years points which you'd likely get on a resale anyway.


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## Pathways (Feb 28, 2020)

Dean said:


> giving you this years points


OK . Well in my book if they are 'giving' them to me with no fee, they are free. Not saying you can't also get them 'free' in a resale, in fact sometimes you can get triple points on a resale. But depending on the use year, resale double points may require reimbursement for dues, in which at that point, they are not free. Always negotiable.

Direct from Disney almost always can get you an extra years worth of points free.  The early Riviera buyers could not, b/c the resort wasn't open yet, so Disney had no way of adding in bonus points. The free points are only on certain use years.  The guide will help with that.


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## Pathways (Feb 28, 2020)

macman123 said:


> It was riveria


I can't comment on whether it was the right buy for you, but you can't go wrong with Riv.  Having stayed there myself, it is now our favorite, even over Boardwalk and Beachclub.  The skyliner makes all the difference.  With the expiration date way into the future, and skyliner to two parks, it is fast becoming the toughest reservation to get.  You will need the home resort window for Dec stays


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## presley (Feb 28, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Thats $8k for every 2 years for a 3 week (every 2 year) stay!


I was going to bore you with my description of why it's cheaper for me to pay $700/night rather than own, but then I saw:


macman123 said:


> Well I have brought 500 DVC points direct from Disney today


 Congratulations and Welcome Home!! That is very exciting news and I think Riviera sounds like a great resort. Early December is the busy time for DVC owners. Book your stay with your home resort advantage and when you get to the 7 month mark, you can look at other resorts to see what's available, but personally, I'd stay with Riviera based on reports that I've read. You are paying a lot of money - may as well stay in a brand new resort.

Please stay on Tug and consider posting resort reviews after your stays.


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## macman123 (Feb 28, 2020)

I always tend to stay Jan/Feb so booking wise that should be ok - Ive looked for next Jan and GF is avaiable. Kind of nice for my first ever stay on property.......!


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## elaine (Feb 28, 2020)

If you didn’t do so, if highly suggest splitting into 2 250 contracts or even 4 125 contracts so that you can easily sell a portion of you need. Dvc should do thIs for you for minimal cost. It can make a big difference in the future. If dvc says no, then say you might need to rescind. That will likely get them to be able to do it.


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## TheHolleys87 (Feb 28, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I always tend to stay Jan/Feb so booking wise that should be ok - Ive looked for next Jan and GF is avaiable. Kind of nice for my first ever stay on property.......!


If you want a reservation at VGF for Jan/Feb 2021, you might want to book now (or when the 11-month window opens for your dates) at Riviera and then try to switch at the 7 month window. Depending on the dates you want, VGF may or may not be available, so booking now at Riviera at least means you have a place to stay.  This thread will give you a historic look at availability for the various DVC resorts over the last few years:  https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-bd-charts-september-2019-2-bd-added.3689931/.

That said, I've stayed at both VGF and at Riviera, and if I were a new DVC owner at Riviera I'd certainly want my first DVC stay to be there!  It's gorgeous, the Skyliner makes transportation to DHS and Epcot (and the restaurants in the Epcot Resort area) extremely convenient, and I'd be proud to own there.


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## Dean (Feb 28, 2020)

Pathways said:


> OK . Well in my book if they are 'giving' them to me with no fee, they are free. Not saying you can't also get them 'free' in a resale, in fact sometimes you can get triple points on a resale. But depending on the use year, resale double points may require reimbursement for dues, in which at that point, they are not free. Always negotiable.
> 
> Direct from Disney almost always can get you an extra years worth of points free.  The early Riviera buyers could not, b/c the resort wasn't open yet, so Disney had no way of adding in bonus points. The free points are only on certain use years.  The guide will help with that.


Compared to resale you can get the same or more points resale.  The benefit of banking late can be helpful and you have reduced fees for one year compared to resale but you are frequently not getting more points retail than resale and if you get a good contract you can get more points resale and with less fees on a per point basis than resale.


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## frank808 (Feb 28, 2020)

bnoble said:


> Dean, can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm not sure I understand why the order matters...


DVC points come with a specific use year. 

When you buy resale first you get a use year attached to those points. Much easier to then buy direct from Disney to have them match those points use year. 

It is much harder to get a resale contract with the exact same use year and points that you want to buy. 

Having contracts with the same use year also is easier to combine points to book at the 11 month window if they have the same resort. Also easier to use points at the 7 month booking window from different home resorts.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## cbyrne1174 (Feb 28, 2020)

If you stay at Bonnet Creek in the value season owning a Grand Desert resale deed, it will cost you $461.16 a week for a 1 bedroom deluxe (value season is late April, early May, Sept, Nov-Dec before xmas). You can buy the deed you need on Ebay for $500-800 bucks and exchange into SSR occasionally.


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## montygz (Feb 28, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I always tend to stay Jan/Feb so booking wise that should be ok - Ive looked for next Jan and GF is avaiable. Kind of nice for my first ever stay on property.......!


You bought 500 DVC points and have never stayed on property? I do hope you like it but did you consider a stay there first?

The resale market for Riveria does have some uncertainty because of the special restrictions Disney has put on those points if you need to sell them. I hope you know about that.


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## CPNY (Feb 28, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I always tend to stay Jan/Feb so booking wise that should be ok - Ive looked for next Jan and GF is avaiable. Kind of nice for my first ever stay on property.......!


While riviera is amazing, I’d rethink buying there and holding off until the new resort opens. It looks like it will be much nicer. In the meantime rent


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## Pathways (Feb 28, 2020)

CPNY said:


> until the new resort opens. It looks like it will be much nicer



I can't think of any DVC resort at WDW that is not nice. (Well, I'm not a poly fan but anyway)   The DVC resorts are all about location, and how to get to the parks.  BWV and BCV with Epcot and HS, BLT and the MK, and soon the VGF and MK via the new walkway.   The new DVC resort by the campgrounds will be attached to ....nothing.  (Unless you think a little flagged boat is easy access).  If you are planning to do the parks, it will not be attractive to stay there.

Riviera on the other hand goes to two parks like the BW and BC.   To see how important that is, check out the occupancy of the other resorts tied to the Skyliner. I know of three families who would never have considered Caribbean Beach  or Pop Century (but they could never afford the DVC rates) and they all just came back raving about Caribbean Beach and how convenient it was for their kids.


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## CPNY (Feb 28, 2020)

Pathways said:


> I can't think of any DVC resort at WDW that is not nice. (Well, I'm not a poly fan but anyway)   The DVC resorts are all about location, and how to get to the parks.  BWV and BCV with Epcot and HS, BLT and the MK, and soon the VGF and MK via the new walkway.   The new DVC resort by the campgrounds will be attached to ....nothing.  (Unless you think a little flagged boat is easy access).  If you are planning to do the parks, it will not be attractive to stay there.
> 
> Riviera on the other hand goes to two parks like the BW and BC.   To see how important that is, check out the occupancy of the other resorts tied to the Skyliner. I know of three families who would never have considered Caribbean Beach  or Pop Century (but they could never afford the DVC rates) and they all just came back raving about Caribbean Beach and how convenient it was for their kids.


I rent a car and don’t rely on Disney transport when I stay there.


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## Pathways (Feb 28, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I rent a car and don’t rely on Disney transport when I stay there



Pretty much no reason to stay at a DVC resort then.  Stay offsite and save big $$.  Although I can't envision anyone staying at Boardwalk or Riviera etc and "driving" to the park.  It would take 45 minutes instead of ten


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## CPNY (Feb 28, 2020)

Pathways said:


> Pretty much no reason to stay at a DVC resort then.  Stay offsite and save big $$.  Although I can't envision anyone staying at Boardwalk or Riviera etc and "driving" to the park.  It would take 45 minutes instead of ten


Riviera to AK I would drive. Obviously staying at resorts with easy direct transport to certain parks I wouldn’t drive. But SSR I’d drive to the parks


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## macman123 (Feb 29, 2020)

Thanks. I will keep you all updated with my stay and progress. Thanks for all your help


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## CPNY (Feb 29, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Thanks. I will keep you all updated with my stay and progress. Thanks for all your help


Hopefully the riviera purchase doesn’t take too much of a hit if you have to sell. Too early to tell how the restrictions will direct resale riviera prices.


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## Dean (Feb 29, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Hopefully the riviera purchase doesn’t take too much of a hit if you have to sell. Too early to tell how the restrictions will direct resale riviera prices.


It'll likely lose 1/3 up to 1/2 of the then retail value if one needs to sell esp with the restrictions.


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## CPNY (Feb 29, 2020)

Dean said:


> It'll likely lose 1/3 up to 1/2 of the then retail value if one needs to sell esp with the restrictions.


Yeah the restrictions are tough with that resort. The real issue is booking anything under 7 months will likely result in no availability, not to mention the high point values. I can see someone being stuck with a high point contract and no way to use points if they don’t make reservations within 11-7 months In advance. Are riviera resale restriction only limited to riviera usage or would the new reflections resort be included in that restriction as well? At least that would open up to a second resort option.


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## Dean (Feb 29, 2020)

CPNY said:


> Yeah the restrictions are tough with that resort. The real issue is booking anything under 7 months will likely result in no availability, not to mention the high point values. I can see someone being stuck with a high point contract and no way to use points if they don’t make reservations within 11-7 months In advance. Are riviera resale restriction only limited to riviera usage or would the new reflections resort be included in that restriction as well? At least that would open up to a second resort option.


We won't know for sure until other resorts are announced or even when we see the documentation but presumably each new resort will be restricted to usage only at that resort for resale.


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## CPNY (Feb 29, 2020)

Dean said:


> We won't know for sure until other resorts are announced or even when we see the documentation but presumably each new resort will be restricted to usage only at that resort for resale.


I figured that. It be ok with only staying at riviera.... it’s the availability under 7 or even 5 mos that is the concerning part.


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## Gracey (Feb 29, 2020)

I stayed at the Riviera this month and own at OKW.  So not impossible to get at 7 months.  The resort is beautiful and the skyliner is an awesome way to get to two of the parks.  If it were me I would buy into a resort without that resale restriction and also break that 500 up into smaller contracts.


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## CPNY (Feb 29, 2020)

Gracey said:


> I stayed at the Riviera this month and own at OKW.  So not impossible to get at 7 months.  The resort is beautiful and the skyliner is an awesome way to get to two of the parks.  If it were me I would buy into a resort without that resale restriction and also break that 500 up into smaller contracts.


Not impossible at 7 mos at all. I’m talking about if you own resale there and you book at 5 Mo or less. At least you may be able to book SSR or OKW at that time with other resale ownerships. But you’re only restricted to riviera, the points are essentially useless if nothing avail at 5 or less.


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## Dean (Feb 29, 2020)

CPNY said:


> I figured that. It be ok with only staying at riviera.... it’s the availability under 7 or even 5 mos that is the concerning part.


IMO anything for DVC under 7 months has some risk, even OKW & SSR so unless I could routinely plan at least 7 months out, I wouldn't buy DVC and for some resorts and times of the year, at least 11 months out.


Gracey said:


> I stayed at the Riviera this month and own at OKW.  So not impossible to get at 7 months.  The resort is beautiful and the skyliner is an awesome way to get to two of the parks.  If it were me I would buy into a resort without that resale restriction and also break that 500 up into smaller contracts.


Until it's sold out and the new owners there have tried it, it's difficult to know about availability.  With declared but not sold inventory there is always extra points therefore extra units albeit it a small margin.


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## blondietink (Mar 3, 2020)

Why on earth would you need 500 DVC points to stay 1.5 weeks there?  We own 175 DVC points and can stay at any of the Disney DVC resorts in a studio or one bedroom for 1.5 weeks and usually have some points left over. We need more than that for Aulani in Hawaii,but we are pretty good at banking points in order to do that once every 2 or 3 years.


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## dagger1 (Mar 3, 2020)

blondietink said:


> Why on earth would you need 500 DVC points to stay 1.5 weeks there?  We own 175 DVC points and can stay at any of the Disney DVC resorts in a studio or one bedroom for 1.5 weeks and usually have some points left over. We need more than that for Aulani in Hawaii,but we are pretty good at banking points in order to do that once every 2 or 3 years.


How many points are recommended if you require 2 or 3BR units for the week?


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## Dean (Mar 3, 2020)

blondietink said:


> Why on earth would you need 500 DVC points to stay 1.5 weeks there?  We own 175 DVC points and can stay at any of the Disney DVC resorts in a studio or one bedroom for 1.5 weeks and usually have some points left over. We need more than that for Aulani in Hawaii,but we are pretty good at banking points in order to do that once every 2 or 3 years.


I think they're looking at a 2 BR for 1.5 weeks yearly and for that they may need around 500 roughly depending on resort and other specifics.  I see a lot of mistakes made for those buying in around the number of points.  Often those new to the system buy too few or too many and I'm not talking minor differences but like 50-75 then they add on quickly which makes it more expensive or they buy 500 when long term they only need 250-300 (as examples).  Because it's Disney people often lose their minds.


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## macman123 (Mar 6, 2020)

I certainly need 500 points a year for 1.5 weeks. So 1000 for two years which is when I plan to stay. I would be staying in a one bed villa for 3 weeks.
So I’ve done the numbers and it’s around 227 p/w standard 284 preferred,  bay lake 227/273 and GF, 247/296. That’s quiet time of year.


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## ljmiii (Mar 6, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> How many points are recommended if you require 2 or 3BR units for the week?


Unlike most MVC resorts, in DVC there is a huge difference between 2BRs and 3BRs. The 3BRs are Grand Villas and are usually more than twice the cost of a 2BR.

For example, in 2021 a 2BR at BLT varies between 268 and 636 points for a week depending on view and season. A 3BR varies between 613 and 1294.


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## dagger1 (Mar 6, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> Unlike most MVC resorts, in DVC there is a huge difference between 2BRs and 3BRs. The 3BRs are Grand Villas and are usually more than twice the cost of a 2BR.
> 
> For example, in 2021 a 2BR at BLT varies between 268 and 636 points for a week depending on view and season. A 3BR varies between 613 and 1294.


Thank you!  What are the approximate MF’s for 613 points?  When we go to WDW, we always go with family and need at least 2 x 3BR’s.


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## cbyrne1174 (Mar 6, 2020)

BLT costs $140 per point resale. That's a $85,820 buy in cost with MF of  $4,033.54 per year. If you think of it in terms of cost per point per year to include the buy in cost and maintenance fees, that's $10.08 per point ($6179.04 for 613 points).


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## cbyrne1174 (Mar 6, 2020)

If you stayed in Old Key West, which has the cheapest 3 bedrooms during the lowest season using Saratoga Springs points ($9.40 per point per year), it will cost you $3,280.60 for a week in a 3 BR. (349 points)


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## bnoble (Mar 6, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> Thank you!  What are the approximate MF’s for 613 points?  When we go to WDW, we always go with family and need at least 2 x 3BR’s.



You can find the point charts, per-point annual dues, and much more here:




__





						Home | DVCNews.com - The essential Disney Vacation Club resource!
					

DVCNews.com: The essential Disney Vacation Club resource!




					dvcnews.com


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## blondietink (Mar 7, 2020)

If you are going to spend that kind of money, I think it would be cheaper to rent through a DVC rental agency like David's.  You might be able to get a reservation that is a similar price to the yearly dues without the huge upfront spend.


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## cbyrne1174 (Mar 7, 2020)

Or buy the presidential reserve bonnet creek resale contract on here to stay in the presidential units at Bonnet Creek and get a nicer room for less money.


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## katavitch (Mar 7, 2020)

macman123 said:


> Hello all
> 
> I have been to the DVC presentation.
> 
> ...


Have you considered renting DVC points through something like DVC resales?  Sign up for the Mousesavers newsletter and they provide good information.  You could travel to disney a lot for $4000.00/yr plus your 85K by renting points from current owners.  We had DVC and loved it but once our kids got older we did not go enough to justify keeping it.  We were able to sell ours and get a good price out of it but since they have changed the way you can use you points not purchased thru DVC I doubt you can get as good of a price out of your resell, I believe we got out at a good time.  We now have Wyndham Access and the Bonnet Creek Resort is beautiful and very close to Disney Resorts with a pretty good shuttle service but it is not nearly as convenient as staying at the Disney resorts (our home resort was Bay lake Towers).  I would highly recommend checking into renting DVC points.


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## ljmiii (Mar 7, 2020)

dagger1 said:


> Thank you!  What are the approximate MF’s for 613 points?  When we go to WDW, we always go with family and need at least 2 x 3BR’s.


In 2019 BLT and SSR's MFs were $6.40/pt so $3,923.20 for 613 points. Most WDW DVC MFs are higher.

Most people who stay at DVC at WDW as part of a large group book multiple 2BRs or many multiple studios because of the price/occupant. Obviously, YMMV.

If you rented from David's or DVC-rental that stay would be $12,260-$13,486 ($20-22/pt). Personally, I would not recommend renting if you want more than one room and/or want a specific 'hard to get' reservation (e.g. Theme park view over Christmas or Standard view during the 1st two weeks of December). Again, YMMV.

However, renting at a few different resorts for shorter stays to 'try out' DVC before committing might be a good idea. That said, we made our first DVC purchase after paying 'cash' for a DVC 2BR but bought 'sort of' sight unseen - we had stayed at the Beach Club but not the DVC building before buying BCV and at the Contemporary before buying BLT.


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## TheHolleys87 (Mar 7, 2020)

macman123 said:


> I certainly need 500 points a year for 1.5 weeks. So 1000 for two years which is when I plan to stay. I would be staying in a one bed villa for 3 weeks.
> So I’ve done the numbers and it’s around 227 p/w standard 284 preferred,  bay lake 227/273 and GF, 247/296. That’s quiet time of year.





blondietink said:


> If you are going to spend that kind of money, I think it would be cheaper to rent through a DVC rental agency like David's.  You might be able to get a reservation that is a similar price to the yearly dues without the huge upfront spend.





katavitch said:


> Have you considered renting DVC points through something like DVC resales?  Sign up for the Mousesavers newsletter and they provide good information.  You could travel to disney a lot for $4000.00/yr plus your 85K by renting points from current owners.  We had DVC and loved it but once our kids got older we did not go enough to justify keeping it.  We were able to sell ours and get a good price out of it but since they have changed the way you can use you points not purchased thru DVC I doubt you can get as good of a price out of your resell, I believe we got out at a good time.  We now have Wyndham Access and the Bonnet Creek Resort is beautiful and very close to Disney Resorts with a pretty good shuttle service but it is not nearly as convenient as staying at the Disney resorts (our home resort was Bay lake Towers).  I would highly recommend checking into renting DVC points.





ljmiii said:


> If you rented from David's or DVC-rental that stay would be $12,260-$13,486 ($20-22/pt). Personally, I would not recommend renting if you want more than one room and/or want a specific 'hard to get' reservation (e.g. Theme park view over Christmas or Standard view during the 1st two weeks of December). Again, YMMV.


Renting to stay in a one bedroom villa for three weeks would be feasible, especially if you're willing to split the stay among two or more resorts.  The likelihood of a single owner having and wanting to rent out sufficient points to book three consecutive weeks is small (not impossible, just small), so it would be much more likely that each week would be rented through a separate owner and might be in a different resort.  Being flexible in that case could indeed save quite a lot of money and avoid the long-term commitment of buying.


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## raygo123 (Mar 7, 2020)

Why not just book it thru Disney. I imagine for $85,000 you vpcan get many years stay.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk


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## nomoretslt (Mar 7, 2020)

I usually reserve a 2 bedroom lock off and a studio or two when a big group is coming.  Cheaper than a grand villa.  They are quite beautiful but a lot of wasted space.  The 2 bedroom lock off will have a full kitchen, washer/dryer, 3 full baths (one with a jet tub or bubble tub) a pull out couch plus sleeper chair (BLT and AKV only...maybe OKW ,not sure about that one) in the living room, plus a kitchenette in the lockoff portion.


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## dagger1 (Mar 8, 2020)

ljmiii said:


> In 2019 BLT and SSR's MFs were $6.40/pt so $3,923.20 for 613 points. Most WDW DVC MFs are higher.
> 
> Most people who stay at DVC at WDW as part of a large group book multiple 2BRs or many multiple studios because of the price/occupant. Obviously, YMMV.
> 
> ...


Thanks!!  Wow, so if we needed 2 x 3BR’s it would be really hard to do:  we would need 3 x 2BR’s or 6 studios.  We really enjoy all staying together, that’s one of the main reason we like timesharing.  For example, we have a 4BR and a 3BR at the Wyndham Emerald Grande over spring break.  Renting 7 bedrooms wouldn’t be the same...
We have too many kids and grandkids to stay in bedrooms.  2BRS would be much better than that.  I just checked 7 nights at Bonnet Creek in a 3 BR 12/13-20 is 196,000 points, a little less than $1400...


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