# Learning WM and II



## DaveNV (Sep 12, 2018)

I’m still wading through learning the nuances of WM, and how to maximize my ownership. I can’t find the thread now, but someone recently mentioned about using WM to exchange through II into Marriott. I’ve never used II, only RCI Weeks, and don’t yet even have an II account. How can I learn about all of this?

Dave


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## breezez (Sep 12, 2018)

Dave I posted a bunch of this in WorldMark vs Wyndham Thread.

Look at that and then if you have more questions I can try to answer them.

I made a video the other day to upload to tug but video extensions are not allowed in the file upload process.


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## DaveNV (Sep 12, 2018)

breezez said:


> Dave I posted a bunch of this in WorldMark vs Wyndham Thread.
> 
> Look at that and then if you have more questions I can try to answer them.
> 
> I made a video the other day to upload to tug but video extensions are not allowed in the file upload process.



Thanks. That may be the thread I was thinking of. I’ll check that.


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## bizaro86 (Sep 12, 2018)

You'll need to get an II account setup. Ask for the worldmark desk at II, because it's a bit of an unusual process.

Once you do that, you can request first or deposit first. With worldmark, a request first generally has higher trading power. You can make a request (or search available inventory) using the three bedroom float. When you make a trade, you are charged based on the size of the trade. 8k 1 bedroom, 10k 2 bedroom, 12k 3 bedroom or larger. (Plus housekeeping and II exchange fee).

If you deposit first, you can potentially save credits, but it's riskier. You don't get to pick the week, the transaction can't be reversed, and the deposits expire. However,  you can deposit a low season 2 bedroom unit for 6k credits plus a housekeeping, which is a potentially material savings on credits. A low season week will have trading power based on the week. If you get a good one, it can be nearly as good as the float week. If you get a stinker, you might have a hard time getting something.

One other thing - during flex time (59 days before check in, IIRC ) all float trades are only 4000 credits, which can be great.


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## taterhed (Sep 12, 2018)

Also, don't wait until you need it to set it up.  Sometimes they have a hard time setting up the 'float' with 3br.  

The spacebank is a great deal when you need to stash some credits.  Also, if you decide to upgrade to 'platinum' with Interval (maybe gold too?) then you can use shortstays.  Not the absolute greatest deal on earth (exchange fees for all shortstays) but can be a great deal if the resort is right.


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## taterhed (Sep 12, 2018)

breezez said:


> Dave I posted a bunch of this in WorldMark vs Wyndham Thread.
> 
> Look at that and then if you have more questions I can try to answer them.
> 
> I made a video the other day to upload to tug but video extensions are not allowed in the file upload process.



So, it's really easy.  Set up a youtube or facebook site and post the videos.  You can link via TUG.
I'm not the expert, but with the right privacy settings, I think you can basically shield the site from the general public but still share video links.

Others will comment on the security/privacy side.
Ditto if you decide to use a file/photo/video hosting site.  I still have my flickr account.


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## breezez (Sep 12, 2018)

taterhed said:


> So, it's really easy.  Set up a youtube or facebook site and post the videos.  You can link via TUG.
> I'm not the expert, but with the right privacy settings, I think you can basically shield the site from the general public but still share video links.
> 
> Others will comment on the security/privacy side.
> Ditto if you decide to use a file/photo/video hosting site.  I still have my flickr account.



Thanks Taterhead - Here is the video the other day I made on my iPad before I went to Hyatt presentation.   I wanted to have in case they said you can never trade into our units.

To see what I pulled using the list I attached earlier in this thread just play video at this link.


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## taterhed (Sep 12, 2018)

breezez said:


> Thanks Taterhead - Here is the video the other day I made on my iPad before I went to Hyatt presentation.   I wanted to have in case they said you can never trade into our units.
> 
> To see what I pulled using the list I attached earlier in this thread just play video at this link.



Nice job.

As others have said:    Let's not sell the Worldmark too hard!!!  ha ha    (my fav:  no, no, Kauai is awful.  Go somewhere else!)

Great video.


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## DaveNV (Sep 12, 2018)

Ok, so I just got off the phone with II's so-called "WorldMark desk."  I use the term lightly, because the guy who answered seemed very confused that I didn't already have an II account.  I told him a few times that was why I was calling, and we went around that tree several times.  He kept saying that should have been set up by WorldMark.  I finally suggested he ask a Supervisor how to set up a new WorldMark account.  He did, and came back ready to do it.  It was pretty easy after that.  And it seems like it worked, (after a lot of information sharing.) The account is being verified.  When I logged into II and set up a profile, then check My Memberships, it says I own a "2 bedroom Week 54."  (Week 54?  How does that work?) But it also says Redmond, Wa, and I don't think there's a WM resort there.  So I guess that's WM Corporate?





We'll see how this goes.  I only bought the base membership for one year, and I'll decide going forward if this is something I want to continue.  RCI hasn't shown me much for a long time, so I hope to have a better experience with II.  

Dave


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## breezez (Sep 12, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Ok, so I just got off the phone with II's so-called "WorldMark desk."  I use the term lightly, because the guy who answered seemed very confused that I didn't already have an II account.  I told him a few times that was why I was calling, and we went around that tree several times.  He kept saying that should have been set up by WorldMark.  I finally suggested he ask a Supervisor how to set up a new WorldMark account.  He did, and came back ready to do it.  It was pretty easy after that.  And it seems like it worked, (after a lot of information sharing.) The account is being verified.  When I logged into II and set up a profile, then check My Memberships, it says I own a "2 bedroom Week 54."  (Week 54?  How does that work?) But it also says Redmond, Wa, and I don't think there's a WM resort there.  So I guess that's WM Corporate?
> 
> View attachment 8233
> 
> ...



Dave mine looks similar.   But says unit 8 Bedroom week 54.    



 


But I don't think this really maters.   If you want to make sure it works.    Click on exchange vacations.   And when it asks you to pick a unit you should see your WM unit with a drop down where you pick unit size.   It works best to always pick the 3 bedroom size.   It gives you the strongest trader, but you will only use credits based on unit size you confirm a match with.


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## taterhed (Sep 12, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Ok, so I just got off the phone with II's so-called "WorldMark desk."  I use the term lightly, because the guy who answered seemed very confused that I didn't already have an II account.  I told him a few times that was why I was calling, and we went around that tree several times.  He kept saying that should have been set up by WorldMark.  I finally suggested he ask a Supervisor how to set up a new WorldMark account.  He did, and came back ready to do it.  It was pretty easy after that.  And it seems like it worked, (after a lot of information sharing.) The account is being verified.  When I logged into II and set up a profile, then check My Memberships, it says I own a "2 bedroom Week 54."  (Week 54?  How does that work?) But it also says Redmond, Wa, and I don't think there's a WM resort there.  So I guess that's WM Corporate?
> 
> View attachment 8233
> 
> ...




As I said earlier......wrong account.  

You need to be set up with a Worldmark 'float' account with 3br.


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## taterhed (Sep 12, 2018)

Somebody let me know if mine is wrong!!!!


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## bizaro86 (Sep 12, 2018)

Mine looks exactly like taterhed, and it definitely works.

On the other hand, I had a sheraton floating unit say week 54 once. It was a floating unit, and the II rep I talked to said that was a code for floating. That may or may not be true, but it always traded fine.

If you can select the wm float 1/2/3 bedroom I probably wouldn't worry about it.


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## DaveNV (Sep 12, 2018)

I can't yet select anything, because the account is being verified. When I try to pick My Units under Exchange, I get this:



 

I'll try it again after the verification is complete.  (Although it's nice to know things may be set up correctly, so far.)

Dave


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## breezez (Sep 12, 2018)

taterhed said:


> As I said earlier......wrong account.
> 
> You need to be set up with a Worldmark 'float' account with 3br.
> 
> View attachment 8235



What he is showing is what is under your profile.    Under the exchange vacation selection mine looks like yours well some.....

Here is what mine looks like.    I have never deposited first so I am not sure if that is set up correct or not.



 

The place request, short stays, hotel exchange, cruise exchange links don't show on mine.   I am platinum so I don't know    I may take your graphic and mine and email them and ask them what gives.    I was going to make my first deposit first next year and I sure don't want to find out that is not set up.

One question I do have - Can you have more than one Worldmark Float set up in your II account.   I have a second WM account I would like to link as well.


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## breezez (Sep 12, 2018)

Taterhed -  That was fast I emailed them about difference in your and my account views and they have it fixed already.    I did not get a reply back but it now looks just like yours.    Thats the fastest Interval has ever resolved something for me. Hurray!


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## taterhed (Sep 13, 2018)

Glad to hear it.

Yeah, they didn't get mine right the first time.....I think the above examples are another 'trick' they use to max-out the trade power of the float deposit.  Maybe that one was higher....but I think not. 

I didn't research adding multiple accounts to Interval because the transfer rules were easier when I set up.  Now that they are less relaxed, it's more of an issue.  Please respond with what you find out about adding multiple accounts.  I think they want to charge you, but I'm not sure.  Maybe I should add my other account.


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## taterhed (Sep 13, 2018)

breezez said:


> What he is showing is what is under your profile.    Under the exchange vacation selection mine looks like yours well some.....
> 
> Here is what mine looks like.    I have never deposited first so I am not sure if that is set up correct or not.
> 
> ...




I'm platinum on Interval.  That adds some exchange capability (short stays etc...) and that's probably the icons.


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## breezez (Sep 13, 2018)

taterhed said:


> I'm platinum on Interval.  That adds some exchange capability (short stays etc...) and that's probably the icons.


I am too that’s why I wrote them.  It’s fixed now.  Just got another email from them wanting account info for second WM account.   Just provided so I’ll wait to see what they reply with.


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## breezez (Sep 13, 2018)

Has any of you tried the hotel exchange?  How does it work with WM, and how many credits do they take.


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## breezez (Sep 13, 2018)

taterhed said:


> Glad to hear it.
> 
> Yeah, they didn't get mine right the first time.....I think the above examples are another 'trick' they use to max-out the trade power of the float deposit.  Maybe that one was higher....but I think not.
> 
> I didn't research adding multiple accounts to Interval because the transfer rules were easier when I set up.  Now that they are less relaxed, it's more of an issue.  Please respond with what you find out about adding multiple accounts.  I think they want to charge you, but I'm not sure.  Maybe I should add my other account.



They said it would cost $39 to add the other account.   But I would, bet if you extend a couple years they may do for free.


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## taterhed (Sep 13, 2018)

breezez said:


> They said it would cost $39 to add the other account.   But I would, bet if you extend a couple years they may do for free.


Thanks!


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## Ddee555 (Sep 13, 2018)

breezez said:


> They said it would cost $39 to add the other account.   But I would, bet if you extend a couple years they may do for free.



II charges if you simply want to add another timeshare to your account.  But if you add a resort at the same time that you pay membership dues, it is free.


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## DaveNV (Sep 17, 2018)

Well, apparently I've been verified, and things look like what you've reported:



 

Notice the 2BR Week 54 is gone, replaced by  just the generic WorldMark the Club upper badge.  That one isn't clickable.  But on the lower one, when I click Vacation Exchange or Place Request, I have these choices:



 

So what is the best way to search for available exchanges? And if I don't find something I want, the Place Request is the better way to go? Trying to sift through these options for best results.  What can you experienced II folks teach me?

Dave


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## breezez (Sep 17, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Well, apparently I've been verified, and things look like what you've reported:
> 
> View attachment 8274
> 
> ...



Pick the 3 bedroom float,  This pulls the most stuff, but you only use credits based on unit size you confirm.

The other way you can trade for a lower credit amount is call WM II vacation rep and ask for a 2 bedroom blue unit to be deposited.  This will give you another trader in your account that you can search with a random 2 bedroom Blue unit.   This can be a winner or total dud.   But many on WMOwners have reported very good trades off deposit first.  I personally never deposited first so I have no first hand experience on it.  Note:  Deposit first can take up to 2 weeks to show up in your account.

When you do search I find search by resort code best followed by location.   You can enter as many codes as you would like at once just place a comma between them.

If you don’t see what you want you can create an ongoing search if you would like, but must pay exchange fee up front.   If you don’t match you get funds back.  The broader the search criteria the more likely you will match.


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## taterhed (Sep 18, 2018)

I suggest that you change your search/vacation habits.  (not joking)
Instead of searching based on time/location, search on time/premium availability  (or if you have unlimited time, just premium availability)
Skim the crème off the top!!

Consider this: 

"We want to go on vacation during the last half of March 19 (or 3 weeks from now  etc...)
What Elite resorts are available for that week?   (or Marriott or VSE or  California or ???)
Instead of searching for 1 or 2 resorts in a 2 week span, search for all the exceptional resorts/locations during a week (or 2) and see what pops up

I think you would be amazed at some of the great options available..


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## swiftyman (Oct 8, 2018)

Since this seems like a good thread to ask in, how often do hawaii locations show up in interval? (Any island)

I know rci gets some properties fairly consistently (especially within 45 days of travel), but I dont see much about intervals availability and would like to know before I join.


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## ecwinch (Oct 8, 2018)

Yes, Interval regularly has hawaii inventory. The Marriotts and the Hyatts show up in II - but go quickly. And many of the independents exchange in both.

RCI probably has more quantity, but I am not sure about more quality. They do have the more Wyndham/Worldmark inventory (as you would expect) and they have the Hilton properties - and I have found the Hilton properties on the Big Island show up with regularity - but go quickly also. 

JMHO.


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## youppi (Oct 10, 2018)

breezez said:


> Pick the 3 bedroom float,  This pulls the most stuff, but you only use credits based on unit size you confirm.
> 
> The other way you can trade for a lower credit amount is call WM II vacation rep and ask for a 2 bedroom blue unit to be deposited.  This will give you another trader in your account that you can search with a random 2 bedroom Blue unit.   This can be a winner or total dud.   But many on WMOwners have reported very good trades off deposit first.  I personally never deposited first so I have no first hand experience on it.  Note:  Deposit first can take up to 2 weeks to show up in your account.
> 
> ...


Can you see 4 bdrm because your exchange grid stop at 3 bdrm (12,000 pts) ?
There is some 4 bdrm at Grand Luxxe NV that I see with my DRI points. Can you see them ?


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## bizaro86 (Oct 10, 2018)

I can see the 4 bedrooms with worldmark.

II never seems to show me how many WM credits something would be, but I'm pretty sure the WM grid is the same price for 3+ bedrooms. (12000 credits).

Edited to add: I'm in a GL 4 bedroom at Nuevo Vallarta right now, and it definitely has a full kitchen. Unless there's different 4 bedroom units elsewhere.


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## youppi (Oct 10, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> I can see the 4 bedrooms with worldmark.
> 
> II never seems to show me how many WM credits something would be, but I'm pretty sure the WM grid is the same price for 3+ bedrooms. (12000 credits).
> 
> Edited to add: I'm in a GL 4 bedroom at Nuevo Vallarta right now, and it definitely has a full kitchen. Unless there's different 4 bedroom units elsewhere.


Is it 12,000 pts + exchange fee or 12,000 pts + 1 upgrade fee + exchange fee because the max unit size you can use to search is a 3 bdrm ?

Thanks


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## bizaro86 (Oct 10, 2018)

youppi said:


> Is it 12,000 pts + exchange fee or 12,000 pts + 1 upgrade fee + exchange fee because the max unit size you can use to search is a 3 bdrm ?
> 
> Thanks



No upgrade fee. The grid says 12,000 credits for 3 plus bedrooms.


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## DaveNV (Nov 2, 2018)

breezez said:


> Pick the 3 bedroom float,  This pulls the most stuff, but you only use credits based on unit size you confirm.




Falling back to this thread, and I have a new question:  

I searched II with the 3br Float, found an Exchange I wanted, so I Confirmed it.  The unit I accepted was a 1 bedroom.  The confirmation says I relinquished a 3bedroom Float for that 1bedroom.  Your post above says it only uses credits for what I confirmed.  So will WM deduct the equivalent of a 1br for this exchange?  I think someone said it's 8000 credits?  When and where will I see that happen? 

II still shows the 3br Float available to Exchange.  Am I missing something?  Does it take awhile to reflect the credits used?  And can I continue to use the 3br Float to search in II, as long as I have credits to put against it?

Thanks,
Dave


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## bizaro86 (Nov 2, 2018)

II will never take the float away, you can keep searching and exchanging. They don't know how many credits you have.

If you don't have enough in your account, worldmark will charge you $0.15 per credit as a rental.


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## Tacoma (Nov 2, 2018)

Yes worldmark will deduct only the amount of credits for the unit size you exchanged into. Sometimes the points come out of your account very quickly and sometimes apparently it can take a while. One super thing about worldmark is one time I was short credits when an exchange came through so they charged me 15 Cents a credit -ouch. I called up worldmark and because I had future reservations in other resorts they worked their magic and gave me the credits at 8 cents instead of 15 cents. I didn't really understand why (and still don't) but it saved me a small fortune as that was my 3 bedroom  grand luxxe match or 12000 credits. So even if the worst happens and you end up getting charged 15 cents a credit because you don't have enough points call ask for a supervisor and see if they can help you out.

Joan


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## DaveNV (Nov 2, 2018)

Thanks, folks.  I have plenty of credits in my account, I just would not want to be charged the credits needed for a 3 bedroom unit when all I'm getting for it is a 1 bedroom.  In one of these threads I thought I'd seen that I'd have the option of changing the size of the unit used, but everything was greyed out. Then I remembered about this thread saying they'll only take what you confirm, so I pulled the trigger.  We'll see what WM does, and how soon they do it.

Dave


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## HudsHut (Nov 6, 2018)

They will deduct 9000 credits for a 1br. Hawaii is always RED season. Typically the credits are removed 1 - 2 days after confirmation.

Must be logged in to WM to see:

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/owners/secure/rci-information.jsp

(even though it says RCI, it's the same # of credits for II.)


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## woj027 (Nov 6, 2018)

Hey all, My wife and father-in-law own Wyndham, can they do II?  or can they just do RCI?  
If they can, where do they start to get an account?  myclubwyndham.com has a link to RCI within their "My Ownership/Exchanges" tabs.


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## bizaro86 (Nov 6, 2018)

woj027 said:


> Hey all, My wife and father-in-law own Wyndham, can they do II?  or can they just do RCI?
> If they can, where do they start to get an account?  myclubwyndham.com has a link to RCI within their "My Ownership/Exchanges" tabs.



Wyndham is basically just RCI, unless you had an II membership and have maintained it.


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## ecwinch (Nov 7, 2018)

Biz - are you saying that if the resort is listed with II, and I own at that property - I cannot start a membership with II?

Edit: This thread seems to verify Biz’s post
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ational-and-wyndham-acct.255500/#post-2002054


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## bizaro86 (Nov 7, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> Biz - are you saying that if the resort is listed with II, and I own at that property - I cannot start a membership with II?
> 
> Edit: This thread seems to verify Biz’s post
> https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ational-and-wyndham-acct.255500/#post-2002054



I looked into it, as I felt wyndham+II would be a powerful match. But my understanding is that Wyndham will not verify new accounts for II.


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## ecwinch (Nov 7, 2018)

Did you already have a Interval account? Maybe that is an angle - depositing into an existing II account.


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## chemteach (Nov 27, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> I looked into it, as I felt wyndham+II would be a powerful match. But my understanding is that Wyndham will not verify new accounts for II.



This is just for Wyndham, not Worldmark, correct?


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## tschwa2 (Nov 27, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> I looked into it, as I felt wyndham+II would be a powerful match. But my understanding is that Wyndham will not verify new accounts for II.


Correct.  If you aren't currently with II and grandfathered with your Wyndham points, you can't use II with Wyndham.  They are making it difficult for those that want to stay with II and certainly aren't allowing any new enrollments with Wyndham and II regardless of what you own.


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## ecwinch (Nov 27, 2018)

chemteach said:


> This is just for Wyndham, not Worldmark, correct?


Correct. WM members still can use II or RCI.

There are other exchange companies, but some of them do not have formal exchange agreements with the Club, and are subject to a GC charge when used.


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## DaveNV (Dec 22, 2018)

Circling back to this thread one more time, this time to ask about an II Retrade. I had previously accepted a 1br at Kona Coast Resort Phase 1 for Summer 2020.  That would have been fine.  But today, while playing with the E-Plus Retrade option, I found a 2br at the Kona Coast Resort Phase II for a week later.  So I took that instead.  

Credits-wise, I expect to spend 10K credits vs. the 9K credits I'd have used previously.  Right?  The credits still haven't deducted from my account from the initial exchange, so I don't know when the new one will be taken out. But at the end of the day, the only change will be the addition 1K credits used, right?  Any other hidden fees or whatever I need to know about?

Thanks,
Dave


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## Marathoner (Dec 23, 2018)

The new booking and the return of your previous booked credits are two separate transactions. The 10k credits are deducted from your account in a day or two. The 9k credits are returned usually 1 to 2 weeks later. As a result, there will be a period where you will be deducted 19k credits in the interim. Moreover, the credits used in an II exchange don't participate in the credit shuffle so you will likely have older credits returned to you than the new ones deducted. It's a pain to deal with. 

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## ecwinch (Dec 23, 2018)

What Marathoner said - each transaction is separate and at full points; and the return of credits always takes place after the credits for the 2nd exchange is extracted.

9k withdrawal - 1st exchange
10k withdrawal - 2nd exchange
9k returned from 1st exchange

With the same impact on your HK tokens. And you have to really watch for the return....sometimes it does not happen and you need to call in with all the detail (dates, resorts, #) to get it resolved. The fastest I have ever seen a refund is a week - usually in the 2-3 weeks.


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## DaveNV (Dec 23, 2018)

But they haven't taken out the initial 9K credits.  It's been a few months since I made that reservation, and nothing was taken out. Will they still take the 9K at some point, even though it's been replaced with the 10K credit retrade?

Dave


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## easyrider (Dec 23, 2018)

I did the same thing once and was charged 8 cents a point for the difference of points that were in my account before the other points were replaced. I had two WM accounts on my II account and II took the credits out of the wrong account.

I like II for the 4000 point + exchange fee at 59 days out. 

Bill


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## Marathoner (Dec 24, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> But they haven't taken out the initial 9K credits.  It's been a few months since I made that reservation, and nothing was taken out. Will they still take the 9K at some point, even though it's been replaced with the 10K credit retrade?
> 
> Dave


Wyndham is very good about taking the credits or money that they believe are due to them the next day after you've exchanged. You should call them and have them investigate what happened. I have exchanged in II many times and Wyndham has always taken their credits. Once, they took it from the wrong account which they corrected once I called them and inquired. 

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## DaveNV (Dec 24, 2018)

Marathoner said:


> Wyndham is very good about taking the credits or money that they believe are due to them the next day after you've exchanged. You should call them and have them investigate what happened. I have exchanged in II many times and Wyndham has always taken their credits. Once, they took it from the wrong account which they corrected once I called them and inquired.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk



Ok, I'll call after the holidays.  The exchange isn't till Summer of 2020, so there's plenty of time to sort it out. I'm hoping when I do call, they'll just take the 10K and leave the rest of things alone.

Dave


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## ecwinch (Dec 26, 2018)

How long was it between the initial exchange and the regrade? 

I guess if the retrade hit close enough to the initial, they could have just not processed it. But I would definitely call.


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## HudsHut (Dec 26, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> How long was it between the initial exchange and the regrade?
> 
> I guess if the retrade hit close enough to the initial, they could have just not processed it. But I would definitely call.



Dave posted on Fri Nov 2 that he had made the initial exchange. It's been way too long - the initial 9K should have been deducted around Nov 5 or so.


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## DaveNV (Dec 26, 2018)

hudshut said:


> Dave posted on Fri Nov 2 that he had made the initial exchange. It's been way too long - the initial 9K should have been deducted around Nov 5 or so.



It was that date I made the initial exchange, and somebody said the credits would be taken at “some point” after that. Having no experience with this, I didn’t think anything was wrong. I’m going to call them and try to sort this out.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Dec 26, 2018)

So I just called WM and asked about things. They could see the initial exchange, but had no explanation for the credits not being deducted. They suggested I wait a few more days for the Retrade to process, and if there is no change, to call Interval.

Is this going to turn into a finger pointing match between WM and II?

Dave


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## ecwinch (Dec 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> So I just called WM and asked about things. They could see the initial exchange, but had no explanation for the credits not being deducted. They suggested I wait a few more days for the Retrade to process, and if there is no change, to call Interval.
> 
> Is this going to turn into a finger pointing match between WM and II?
> 
> Dave



That is usually how it plays out. II has no idea how the credits are processed in WM, and the WM rep usually has no idea how the retrade option works over in II. 

Ultimately WM is the only party that can resolve this issue. So you have to get the respective transaction details (resort, dates, transaction #) from II and provide them to WM.


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## easyrider (Dec 26, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Is this going to turn into a finger pointing match between WM and II?
> 
> Dave



I remember that II said it was not their problem and I remember Worldmark saying it wasn't their problem when the wrong account was used to make an exchange. The problem was having 9 accounts listed with II with a couple of them being Worldmark. 

Bill


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## DaveNV (Dec 26, 2018)

easyrider said:


> I remember that II said it was not their problem and I remember Worldmark saying it wasn't their problem when the wrong account was used to make an exchange. The problem was having 9 accounts listed with II with a couple of them being Worldmark.
> 
> Bill



Holey cow.  I only have one Wm account, and one II account, set up after WM was up and running. How hard can this be? (Don't answer that. )

Dave


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## DaveNV (Dec 26, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> That is usually how it plays out. II has no idea how the credits are processed in WM, and the WM rep usually has no idea how the retrade option works over in II.
> 
> Ultimately WM is the only party that can resolve this issue. So you have to get the respective transaction details (resort, dates, transaction #) from II and provide them to WM.



Ok. I'll wait and see if magically things resolve themselves.  (Ha! Wishful thinking!)

Dave


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## DaveNV (Jan 4, 2019)

Update:  Mystery mostly solved, but it still seems weird.

I waited till today, after the Holidays, to call WM and ask again about this II Exchange + Retrade thing.  I spoke with a very knowledgable person in Customer Care, who dug into things.  She said the WM credits for this exchange were previously deducted from my account on November 6th, four days after the initial exchange was made, on November 2nd.  Somehow along the way I didn't notice (?) that the credits had been deducted.  She says from everything she can see, the initial exchange was paid for, and as far as WM is concerned, it's all a done deal.  Let sleeping dogs lie.  Ok #1.

So then I asked about the II Retrade.  And things got murky again.  That Retrade was done December 22nd.  WM has no record of that from II, as of today.  But, she explained, WM only gets messages from II once a week.  If that happens on a Wednesday, for example, and a request comes in on Thursday, it will sit in the account until the following Wednesday until it's processed. (Her analogy.)  So it's conceivable, given the Holidays just past, that things are still in the works, and the credit difference in the Retrade (going from a 1br to a 2br) may still be forthcoming from II to WM to collect.  If and when that happens, I'm fine with giving up the difference in credits.  Ok #2.

What she couldn't explain, and what I don't understand, is that the credits WM gave II was only 5000 for the initial 1br at Kona Coast Resort Phase 1.  My understanding is that it should have been 8000.  No idea why it was less.  She couldn't say, either.  I said I didn't want to mess anything up, and we should just let things sit as they are another few weeks, and see if things change.  II sent me the Retrade Confirmation, so I think it's all a paperwork shuffle at this point.

For those of you who know II and WorldMark better than me, does this sort of thing happen often?  Does II ever have "sales," where they ask for fewer WM credits than advertised for an exchange?  Is this more likely a goof that is likely to come back and bite me?  I have no issue paying full and fair credits for what I've reserved, but I feel like I'm kind of at the end of the food chain, and I should keep my mouth shut.

What do you all think?

Dave


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## ecwinch (Jan 5, 2019)

The ePlus retrade is very glitchy. 

Your conversation with Customer Care would confirm a long-standing theory I have had about II exchanges - that it is not a fully automated process. At best it sounds like an automated batch process - where WM receives a data file and someone has to process it. Which almost certainly means some type of manual processing for transactions that error out. Which would go a long ways toward explaining how glitchy it is.

Have no idea about the 2nd part of your question about II "sales". I seem to recall some types of discounts offered during their holiday promotions (? 12 days of II), but dont recall any specifics.


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## Marathoner (Jan 5, 2019)

This is the exchange grid for Worldmark credits in II:

1BR
 Red season 9000
 White season 7000
 Blue season 5000

The number of WM credits that are removed are dependent on the season of your exchange. In II, the season is dependent on the TDI value of the week you exchanged into. Taking a quick look at the II Canadian Rockies TDI index, if you only had 5,000 credits removed, you exchanged into the resort in the spring or fall, specifically weeks 17-22 or weeks 39-47 because these are the least popular times during the year which means that this is the blue season.

Most of the VPC and Owner Care staff at Worldmark are unaware of this aspect of II exchanges. The exchange department would know but we can no longer contact them directly. 

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk


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## bizaro86 (Jan 5, 2019)

Kona Coast Resort is in Hawaii, not the Canadian Rockies. It should be red season all year. I think it's likely whoever processed the exchange just made a mistake.

I wouldn't follow up for two reasons - they're likely to make a mistake trying to fix it and make it worse, and it will probably get resolved with your etrade anyway. The process for an etrade seems to be they pull new credits for your new exchange and give the old ones back. So the 5k should get refunded (eventually) with new ones pulled. Doesnt seem likely to me they'll make a similar mistake twice in a row.


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## DaveNV (Jan 5, 2019)

bizaro86 said:


> Kona Coast Resort is in Hawaii, not the Canadian Rockies. It should be red season all year. I think it's likely whoever processed the exchange just made a mistake.
> 
> I wouldn't follow up for two reasons - they're likely to make a mistake trying to fix it and make it worse, and it will probably get resolved with your etrade anyway. The process for an etrade seems to be they pull new credits for your new exchange and give the old ones back. So the 5k should get refunded (eventually) with new ones pulled. Doesnt seem likely to me they'll make a similar mistake twice in a row.



That's my plan at this point - just let things sit and see how it settles out.  If they need to take the Retrade credit amount, the credits are there.  If they never ask, well, then I guess I got a deal.  At this moment, I have my confirmation with II into the "retraded" resort, and as far as WM is concerned, I've paid II for the exchange.  The woman on the phone kept saying there was "nothing owing on my account," which I take to mean no flags saying something isn't finished.  For being such major players in the timeshare world, it all seems rather old fashioned and mechanical.  Not complaining, just a tad surprised.

Dave


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## Marathoner (Jan 5, 2019)

Ah sorry, I misread the resort.  Yes, the Big Island in Hawaii has the lowest TDI of 100 on weeks 48 & 49.  I don't know whether that is a blue week because I can't seem to find the season color to Interval TDI mapping despite a number of searches that I've just tried.


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## DaveNV (Jan 5, 2019)

ecwinch said:


> The ePlus retrade is very glitchy.
> 
> Your conversation with Customer Care would confirm a long-standing theory I have had about II exchanges - that it is not a fully automated process. At best it sounds like an automated batch process - where WM receives a data file and someone has to process it. Which almost certainly means some type of manual processing for transactions that error out. Which would go a long ways toward explaining how glitchy it is.
> 
> Have no idea about the 2nd part of your question about II "sales". I seem to recall some types of discounts offered during their holiday promotions (? 12 days of II), but dont recall any specifics.



Eric, I think you are correct, from what she was explaining to me.  She kept saying things like "the agent who did this..."  and "Maybe I can try to reach out to the agent who processed this," giving me the feeling it was definitely manually done - that II sent a message saying, "Here's an Exchange, give us WM credits on this account," and a WM agent did so.  If the amount needed was 8000, it's an easy typo to enter 5000 instead.  8 and 5 are easy typos on a 10-key keyboard.  But that seems a bit too easy of an explanation for all this.  She couldn't tell me why it was only 5000 credits taken. (And why didn't I notice 5K credits were suddenly missing from my account? That's a topic for another discussion.) 

I did ask if there was any way on the WM website to see outbound Exchanges like this, or to view an accounting of where credits had been taken, and she said No, there isn't any way to tell, that only they can look it up in the account.  She said things like, "If I look over HERE, it says this, but over THERE, it says that."  Quite mechanical and manually-oriented.  So maybe the larger issue is more about how WM does things. ?

For now, I'm not going to do anything.  The exchange is still 18 months out, so I have lots of time to get it sorted.

Dave


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