# Have any Royal owners heard AI rumours for renters and exchangers? [merged]



## kenie

I was on the RRowners site and came across the "rumour" that the Royals were considering a mandatory All-Inclusive program for renters and exchangers..

Wouldn't this tend to kill the rental/exchange market?
The Azul Five has this through II now and everyone agrees that the AI fee kills the urge to exchange in, and with all the all inclusive mega-resorts in the area, the I don't see any draw for renters, unless they simply added a surcharge to the rental/exchange fees.

I think this would kill the rental and exchange markets..

Have any of you owners who are more in the loop heard about this??


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## pjrose

I don't know if I'm more in the loop - but I certainly haven't heard about that.  Also, it might not be consistent with the owners agreement / contract, if said document says something about owners and exchangers having the same rights to enjoy said property, or something like that. 

Years ago they tried some kind of all-inclusive deal; something on the order or 3 days' or 5 days' meals for XX pesos.....it didn't fly.


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## X-ring

> it might not be consistent with the owners agreement / contract


Such details have not been known to stop Palace Resorts management (e.g. owners of the Beach Palace's Be Your Host program are enjoying 'improvements' to their program such as their contracted fixed week having become a floating week, depending of course on availability; the optional AI becoming mandatory AI, etc.) but I would be shocked if the Royals ever did something like that.




> Years ago they tried some kind of all-inclusive deal; something on the order or 3 days' or 5 days' meals for XX pesos.....it didn't fly.



Just to clarify, even at that it was an optional offering and not a mandatory as per the OP's question.


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## Carta

Rumor is true according to 2 reps I talked to on Friday..I'm at royal islander now. I'm a renter..Owners will have an option..everyone else ....mandatory..I can say,as a renter I will not return and I really love it here...I'm not a fan of AI..that being said, I will enjoy the rest of my stay..I'll be here til 3/24.....ps....owners here r not too happy


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## KarenLK

I have heard lots of versions, including future purchasers at VCI, only at The Sands and Haciendas, but I have not heard only remters and exchangers. May be ovrraggressive sales guys trying to scare exchangers into buying. VCI does not have space to accommodate that many diners.


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## BoaterMike

Maybe I'm too practical (or naive) here, but even though it's not part of the operating budget structure, wouldn't they want to run this past the advisory council?  While it may not directly impact an owner using their unit in a financial way, it certainly could impact rent-ability and trade-ability.  If successful to any extent,  it would also require significant changes to the property's restaurant and beverage facilities to accommodate the increased volume of business.  

I think the jury's still out on this one.  Way out. 

Mike


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## radmoo

Just returned from AMAZING week at RH. I too, heard this rumor.  The way I understood it was that renters will be OBLIGED to do all inclusive but it will be optional for owners.  Makes sense to me, why own if you can rent and not have to worry about maintenance fees, etc?

I also heard rumor that 2 companies are in the running for taking over Mayan when contract expires next year, one being Marriott.  I am hoping this is true and perhaps we could "trade" or upgrade our Canyon Villa Platinum week for  a week in Mexico instead!!!


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## buceo

A move toward all rentals going to AI clients after 30+ years of being a family oriented timeshare seems a ridiculous shift to me. I understand they are looking at an AI option, but not mandatory for anyone.  I for one am very much opposed to AI, as mentioned they don't even have the infrastructure for it. If they want more money to stay on the resort, they need to return a better value at their bars & restaurants.  That seemed to work great for them the first 30 years.


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## pjrose

BoaterMike said:


> Maybe I'm too practical (or naive) here, but even though it's not part of the operating budget structure, *wouldn't they want to run this past the advisory council?*  While it may not directly impact an owner using their unit in a financial way, it certainly could impact rent-ability and trade-ability.  If successful to any extent,  it would also require significant changes to the property's restaurant and beverage facilities to accommodate the increased volume of business.
> 
> I think the jury's still out on this one.  Way out.
> 
> Mike



But as someone (you?) pointed out awhile ago, we don't seem to have any knowledge of or input into what the advisory council is doing.


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## BoaterMike

pjrose said:


> But as someone (you?) pointed out awhile ago, we don't seem to have any knowledge of or input into what the advisory council is doing.



Don't think that was me PJ.   I've not tried to reach out to an advisory council member. 

Mike


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## radmoo

buceo said:


> A move toward all rentals going to AI clients after 30+ years of being a family oriented timeshare seems a ridiculous shift to me. I understand they are looking at an AI option, but not mandatory for anyone.  I for one am very much opposed to AI, as mentioned they don't even have the infrastructure for it. If they want more money to stay on the resort, they need to return a better value at their bars & restaurants.  That seemed to work great for them the first 30 years.



Hmm, we found the prices to be quite reasonable.  Then again, we reside in the Northeast where things tend to be more $$$ than other parts of the US.


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## kenie

One of the selling points of timeshares is the ability to take your family and have an affordable vacation by having the option to prepare meals in your unit if you want to.
If all renters had to pay an AI fee, it would become quite expensive to bring your family. If this was the case, why would you rent at the Royals?
We own week 17 at the Mayan but because of work schedules, we can't use it so we exchange in.
I would rather see them charge a daily use fee per unit  for renters/exchangers than go this route.


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## Phydeaux

radmoo said:


> Hmm, we found the prices to be quite reasonable.  Then again, we reside in the Northeast where things tend to be more $$$ than other parts of the US.




Our friends paid $15.38 USD for one gin & tonic at the Royal Hacienda last week. $16 USD for a buffet breakfast. Given the cost of goods, labor, etc. and the fact Mexico is a developing nation, as a Royal Resorts member, I not only find their restaurant and bar prices to be excessive to the extreme, I consider them an insult to one's intelligence.


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## buceo

For us before owning we reluctantly went to "BBQ night" thinking we're just too tired to go off resort.  That meal, that night night struck me as the best value in Cancun.  The combination of service, setting (eating in, but on an outdoor patio on the Caribbean), food and price was fantastic really unbeatable I thought.  To me it was a "why go off resort to even eat moment".


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## radmoo

Phydeaux said:


> Our friends paid $15.38 USD for one gin & tonic at the Royal Hacienda last week. $16 USD for a buffet breakfast. Given the cost of goods, labor, etc. and the fact Mexico is a developing nation, as a Royal Resorts member, I not only find their restaurant and bar prices to be excessive to the extreme, I consider them an insult to one's intelligence.



 We tended to takde advantage of Happy Hour , 3-6 at the pool bars.  3 margaritas =$12!!! 
We also did buffet breakfast at RH and the bill was $20/2 . . not sure what your friend had that was any different.


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## jbuzzy11

As an adult I have been know to order the Hamburger meal off the kids menue, Its 1/2 the price!


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## pjrose

We used to go to the buffet breakfast when it was about $8 per person and two of us were kids, but no longer.  

However, we find the prices of the express take-out, mexican buffet, happy hour, sandwiches and hamburgers poolside, and the various specials to be very good.  If we ate out all the time and got drinks and desserts it'd be a different story....but isn't that true anywhere?


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## Helene4

pjrose said:


> But as someone (you?) pointed out awhile ago, we don't seem to have any knowledge of or input into what the advisory council is doing.



There presently is NO ADVISORY COUNCIL at the Royal Haciendas. As per their 'rules' the resort has to be 80% (?) sold out before the management gives up the reins. It is my understanding that the advisory boards are mostly 'rubber stampers'. If anyone knows differently, I'd like to hear it.


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## Phydeaux

Helene4 said:


> There presently is NO ADVISORY COUNCIL at the Royal Haciendas. As per their 'rules' the resort has to be 80% (?) sold out before the management gives up the reins. *It is my understanding that the advisory boards are mostly 'rubber stampers'*. If anyone knows differently, I'd like to hear it.



No, you are absolutely correct. The Royal Resorts Advisory Committee is nothing more than a 'rubber stamp' to RR management. I have many examples, if anyone feels the need to challenge that. Or better yet, why not a current RR Advisory member comment?


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## Phydeaux

pjrose said:


> We used to go to the buffet breakfast when it was about $8 per person and two of us were kids, but no longer.
> 
> However, *we find the prices of the express take-out, mexican buffet, happy hour, sandwiches and hamburgers poolside, and the various specials* to be very good.  If we ate out all the time and got drinks and desserts it'd be a different story....but isn't that true anywhere?



I would agree for the most part with express take-out, and shrimp tacos poolside being a fair value, however, $26 for a dinner 'special' leaves me cold. No thanks. Three people and a tip, that comes to $90 - we can buy a good share of groceries for $90.


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## X-ring

pjrose said:


> However, we find the prices of the express take-out, mexican buffet, happy hour, sandwiches and hamburgers poolside, and the various specials to be very good.



I agree wholeheartedly.  Particularly very tasty and excellent value deals can be obtained from the Lapa Lapa express at the RH - their Mexican (chicken) and Caribbean (grouper) plates for takeout are under $8 USD each!  [P.S. we paid 'market' for grouper sandwiches in Florida in December - 'market' turned out to be $16]

I've suggested (via the comment card) that these be made available in the Cancun outlets as well.


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## pjrose

Phydeaux said:


> I would agree for the most part with express take-out, and shrimp tacos poolside being a fair value, however, $26 for a dinner 'special' leaves me cold. No thanks. Three people and a tip, that comes to $90 - we can buy a good share of groceries for $90.



I completely agree.  I'm thinking of the specials in the vicinity of $15, main dish/veg/starch and either soup or salad.  

I haven't gotten shrimp tacos poolside - thanks for the idea!  I often order a turkey bacon club with avocado on toasted multigrain, which is excellent, for $8.  

And the prices at La Palapa at the RM are pretty good


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## X-ring

> And the prices at La Palapa at the RM are pretty good



I had the Sabrosita off the breakfast menu for the first (and second) time this year ... *¡excellente!* 

[Sabrosita originates in Northern Mexico and as prepared at the RM's Palapa consists of grilled skirt steak with a sauce of red chilaquiles, cream, cheese and fried onions ...  oh, my!!!]


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## Phydeaux

To contrast, I had a fabulous lunch downtown Cancun for $8 USD, including beverage. Even better dinner in Playa for $9 USD, including beverage.


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## Helene4

[Even better dinner in Playa for $9 USD, including beverage.[/QUOTE]

Phydeaux....Where in Playa?


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## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> To contrast, I had a fabulous lunch downtown Cancun for $8 USD, including beverage.



Sounds like a place I'd like ... please share name and location!

Also, what was included in this fabulous $8 lunch?


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## Phydeaux

I could post the names of these restaraunts, but then when I return next year, I wont be the only tourist there, and their prices certainly won't be 96 & 108 p, will they? 


Do what I did and continualy advise other tourists do: Explore. Get off the beaten tourista path, and explore. That's how I found these restaraunts, and other gems.

A large percentage of tourists compare notes on their favorite restaraunts, such as Fred's & Laguna Grill in Cancun, and John Greys and Yaxche in Playa. Those are exactly the kind of places you'll _never_ find me.


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## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> I could post the names of these restaraunts, but then when I return next year, I wont be the only tourist there, and their prices certainly won't be 96 & 108 p, will they?



Oh Phydeaux! ... you are such a little tease, aren't you?   

Yeah, yeah that's the ticket!


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## Phydeaux

X-ring said:


> Oh Phydeaux! ... you are such a little tease, aren't you?
> 
> Yeah, yeah that's the ticket!



OK X, you win. Here's the _exact_ location of the Cancun restaurant: 

86"10'04.97" N 86"49'40.32" W

After you get this one, I'll provide the Playa restaurant location.


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## siesta

Phydeaux said:


> OK X, you win. Here's the _exact_ location of the Cancun restaurant:
> 
> 86"10'04.97" N 86"49'40.32" W
> 
> After you get this one, I'll provide the Playa restaurant location.


 those coordinates are a random location in the Arctic Ocean ...?


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## Phydeaux

siesta said:


> those coordinates are a random location in the Arctic Ocean ...



Nice try. Incorrect.

Next...


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## siesta

Phydeaux said:


> Nice try. Incorrect.
> 
> Next...



Latitude at Cancun airport:
* North 21° 02.100
Longitude at Cancun airport:
* West 086° 53.200

So how can the cancun restaraunt be N86 and W86?

http://cancunmap.com/where-is-cancun.html

Keep in mind, its out of 90 degrees, 86 North would be far up there ... Above Canada


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## Phydeaux

siesta said:


> Latitude at Cancun airport:
> * North 21° 02.100
> Longitude at Cancun airport:
> * West 086° 53.200
> 
> So how can the cancun restaraunt be N86 and W86?
> 
> http://cancunmap.com/where-is-cancun.html
> 
> Keep in mind, its out of 90 degrees, 86 North would be far up there ... Above Canada



Very good Siesta! You caught a typo! The coordinates should be:

*21°*10'04.97" N 86°49'40.32" W


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## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> OK X, you win. Here's the _exact_ location of the Cancun restaurant:
> 
> 86"10'04.97" N 86"49'40.32" W
> 
> After you get this one, I'll provide the Playa restaurant location.



Oh Phydeaux you little devil (tee hee) ... you make me feel like Bugs Bunny (in drag) being romanced by Yosemite Sam! (giggle, giggle)

Back to my original question, what was included in that "fabulous lunch including beverage" for $8?

TIA


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## Phydeaux

*Royal Resorts implements AI, mandatory for non-members*

http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/?hq_e=el&hq_m=1595339&hq_l=4&hq_v=6e2020dc6a

"...members will be offered an optional special all-inclusive package at a discounted price. Non-members will have their room, food and beverages and other services built into a mandatory all-inclusive package sold at the market rate. Non-members will not have access to the special all-inclusive package for members..."

And there you have it. Think this will change the Royals as we've known them?


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## kenie

I will be very curious to see what the pricing structure of the mandatory AI packages looks like.
My initial reaction is that it will severely impact members who want to rent their units out. I don't think it will make sense for families to rent at the Royals anymore.
It may lead to an uptick in people who purchase resales since the mandatory package won't apply to them.. We own at the Mayan but trade into the Sands and the Haciendas. Since our membership is up next year, and WE LIKE THE ROYALS, DAMNIT, we will have to talk about picking up a new unit(resale of course  ).

At least we will have the option to partake of the different packages, butI don't see how they can compete with the better all-inclusive resorts... They don't have the amenities.


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## BoaterMike

Yep, there it is.  Ironically minutes before receiving the email I completed an exchange in to RC for an AC for my daughter.  Fortunately it's prior to the implementation period.

Mike


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## kenie

Well, at least we'll have 2013 to decide if staying with the Royals is worth it.
Hopefully the new format will be a success, but if it's not, at least we won't be tied in .....

With all the surveys they have sent out about the fate of the Mayan, they sure did keep this close to the cuff...


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## lily28

I just happy that my exchange to the Royal Mayan for 7/12 is not affected.


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## yumdrey

Ok, so I should visit royal sands before 10/23/12.
Going to interval site right now to make an exchange...


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## eddiemoral

*Royal Resorts going all Inclusive....*

Just got this email today. Seems Royal Resorts will require non-members an all-inclusive fee (not mandatory to members, but available to purchase as an option)


"Dear Member,

Over the past year, we have been looking for different ways to make your experience at Royal Resorts even better. We are very proud of the product we currently offer, and we are aware of the excellent level of satisfaction among our members. However, Royal Resorts has always strived to go one step further and we believe we can still do more to make your Royal Resorts vacation unforgettable.

    Royal Resorts is pleased to share news about an upcoming program designed to help guests customize their vacations. We understand that each person is different and therefore we want to offer every guest the possibility of choosing the elements that will truly make their vacation unique.

    Through this program, guests will have the opportunity to create customized vacation packages via add-ons such as spa services, tours, water sports, green fees and food and beverages at Royal Resorts restaurants, all of them at preferential rates. 

    Because we want to provide greater benefits to our members, we have established some differences between the programs that members and non-members will have access to. The most significant difference is the fact that members will be offered an optional special all-inclusive package at a discounted price. Non-members will have their room, food and beverages and other services built into a mandatory all-inclusive package sold at the market rate. Non-members will not have access to the special all-inclusive package for members. This will help maintain our resorts efficiently and improve occupancy, thus providing a platform for further discounts and benefits to members; it´s not only about saving you money, but also about giving something back to you for being one of our extremely valuable members.

    This program is scheduled to be launched at The Royal Sands and The Royal Haciendas in Week 43, October 27, 2012 with the intention of rolling it out to others in 2013. We will be sending more information on this program in the near future but we wanted you to be the first ones to read about it. We hope you are as excited as we are about this upcoming program and that you will find great value in it.

    For further details on how the program will work and what it entails, please refer to the FAQ section below.

Sincerely,
Royal Resorts Management"


http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/?hq_e=el&hq_m=1595344&hq_l=4&hq_v=be2900f3d9


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## BoaterMike

I'm interested in seeing what they do with restaurants especially at RH.   Los Murales will probably be considered a specialty restaurant.   That makes the pickings pretty slim.  Surely they have to expand the offerings of the pool bars. 

And, at the Sands, there's not much of a choice without Hacienda Sisal,  Captain's Cove and the Tri-Royals offerings.
Mike


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## tschwa2

This is from the FAQ's from the link.


> *8. Which criteria determine whether the packages are optional?*
> All members registered in the membership agreement will have optional access regardless of how they are staying at the resort, e.g. a Royal Resorts member who exchanges or rents at Royal Resorts will have optional access to all packages.
> Family and friends staying as guests of a member in their unit(s) will have optional access to all packages.



This makes it seem as though rentals from an owner would still have the option to not participate, unless this only applies if the owner is also occupying the unit at the same time. Many resorts consider anyone occupying your unit your "guest" whether you rented to them or gifted the unit to a friend or family member.  It will make exchanges less desirable for non members and may make it easier for members to exchanged their fixed week for other weeks.


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## SDMiller

*TUG Trades????*

I wonder if this will effect us TUGgers that trade  with each other - would these reservations be considerd "owners"?? 

If not, then our Royal Resort trades are over    Too bad we really enjoyed the Royal Haciendas and the RC these past years.

I can't believe they are doing this, I would think this would increase the annual maintence fees for owners.   

SD


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## DosMasCervesos

Correct, my thought is that if I rent my unit to someone and they pay me directly and I fill out the guest form, then they are a "guest or friend" and thus do not have to participate in the AI. The transaction between me and the renter is private -- all the Royals needs to know is I have a guest staying there.

If that isn't the case, then I'll be quite disappointed.


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## BoaterMike

SDMiller said:


> I can't believe they are doing this, I would think this would increase the annual maintence fees for owners.
> 
> SD



I hope not.  But I guess it could if the occupancy rate increased enough above and beyond the existing capacity and expense level for maintenance.  

Mike


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## tschwa2

I don't see how going to a mandatory AI is going to increase occupancy.  There are tons of AI's in Cancun and I would think having a quality non mandatory AI (with the option to go AI if desired)would be much more desirable.

Unless the AI is very reasonable I think it will kill the exchange desirability.


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## Kel

I just booked my frequent flyer seats for January 2013 to CUN with the intention of placing a request for the Royal Haciendas as soon as I can assign my non-Royal timeshare week.  My husband and I don't like all inclusives and we don't eat and drink enough to make it cost effective.  I hope the rates aren't too high or we'll be crossing the Royal Haciendas and the Royal Sands off our exchange list forever.  And that would be a bummer.


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## siesta

Even if the AI fee is reasonable, exchange occupancy will drop, who wants it to be mandatory to eat at the resort with all the great food around?


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## SDMiller

I hear and feel for you Kel - for we ususally book our flights with miles  and stays a year ahead of time.  Fortunately we are not planning to go to Cancun or Playa del Carmen in 2013, but were considering for 2014.

If so, we will try for the Westin timeshare.

SD


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## mstoyanov

I am also certain that it will kill exchange desirability (and trade power of deposits from Royal resorts) but it should make it easier for owners to get an exchange. As it is right now almost any chain (Marriott, Starwood even WorldMark) have higher priority than Royal deposits trying to exchange for another week. So it will help owners that are not forced into AI due to decrease competition from external exchangers. Especially owners that are still using powerful and economical deposit (WorldMark for example). So for me it may turn to be a positive as long as my guests are not forced into AI.


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## Phydeaux

Anyone here ever stayed at or heard of an AI that had a complete kitchen?


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## SDMiller

Phy - That's why it doesn't make sense why Royals are doing this? 

Perhaps they think renters will still shop at their little market for some food/drink items, income from two sources?  Then on the other side  majority are members will still shop at the food market......

Their website announcement indicates they are implementing AI to provide better service to their members, making their stay more enjoyable??? How many members really want an AI???

SD


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## BoaterMike

Phydeaux said:


> Anyone here ever stayed at or heard of an AI that had a complete kitchen?



Perhaps the All-Inclusive includes an in-villa chef.   

It's just a bit unusual, for sure.  

M


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## tschwa2

Another thing to consider is that many resorts that have mandatory AI's for 50%+ of the people staying there give bracelets to AI participants and bars and restaurants that were once a la carte are no longer accessible to those not participating in the AI.  That would mean no happy hour pricing for non AI participanst.  It would also mean that you can't get a beer or a soda while down at the pool.  Hopefully that will not be the case here, but who knows.


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## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> Anyone here ever stayed at or heard of an AI that had a complete kitchen?



Yes, the 2 BR apartments in the Beach Palace had complete kitchens. Then they offered members optional AI while letting the condition of the kitchens and the cooking implements deteriorate to the point where you didn't want to use them. Finally Palace Resorts "improved" the program by forcing all members to pay for the AI.  Then came 2005 and Wilma and blew the house down.

My experience led me to buy two additional replacement weeks at the Royal Resorts whose integrity I have come to trust implicitly over the last nine years.


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## mamadot

The restaurants are so under used at the Tris. I can see why they are turning to this.

I have week 41 RI. Guess I will see how it work in 2013. I love my week in Cancun every Oct.


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## BoaterMike

mamadot said:


> The restaurants are so under used at the Tris. I can see why they are turning to this.
> 
> I have week 41 RI. Guess I will see how it work in 2013. I love my week in Cancun every Oct.



I agree with the point.  Especially that time of year.  This will fill some seats.  But, the implementation is only at RH and RS.... For now.  

Mike


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## Phydeaux

mamadot said:


> The restaurants are so under used at the Tris. I can see why they are turning to this.
> 
> I have week 41 RI. Guess I will see how it work in 2013. I love my week in Cancun every Oct.



The reason the restaraunts are empty is because of the ridiculouslu overpriced meals. 

Don't raise the bridge, lower the river???


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## Former Cruiser

I got one today too. I read threads yesterday that the people at the RR had been telling guests that are staying there now all about it.  Not sure how it affect me as we use our week instead of renting.  I can see how renting will now be much harder with the extra cost involved.  Why have kitchens if you have to use their restaurants? Stupid.


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## Former Cruiser

It's official.  I got the email today explaining the new "Packages" available to members and their families.  However, they'll be mandatory for renters.  If you do a trade through II are you considered a renter?  Hmmm....


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## momeason

yumdrey said:


> Ok, so I should visit royal sands before 10/23/12.
> Going to interval site right now to make an exchange...



I was thinking the same thing. I have been trying to talk my husband into these resorts for a while. I want to go before the change.

I think the atmosphere will totally change also with all the people who buy AI for free alcohol.


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## ocdb8r

Our favorite timeshares

Harborside Resort Atlantis
Westin St. John
Royal Haciendas
Marriott's Frenchman's Cove
Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas
Royal Sands (I guess we'll have to replace with Westin Lagunamar)
Marriott's Lakeshore Reserve
Worldmark Depoe Bay
Westin Kierland Villas
Hilton Bay Club Waikoloa


Very sad to be crossing these of our list.  I hope the program is a complete failure and they have to reconsider.


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## maja651

It's official.  The Royals sent out an email on this today.  I am still fuzzy on whether or not renters from owners are forced into the AI or not.  It is not clear.  Text from the email:
" Dear Member,

Over the past year, we have been looking for different ways to make your experience at Royal Resorts even better. We are very proud of the product we currently offer, and we are aware of the excellent level of satisfaction among our members. However, Royal Resorts has always strived to go one step further and we believe we can still do more to make your Royal Resorts vacation unforgettable.

    Royal Resorts is pleased to share news about an upcoming program designed to help guests customize their vacations. We understand that each person is different and therefore we want to offer every guest the possibility of choosing the elements that will truly make their vacation unique.

    Through this program, guests will have the opportunity to create customized vacation packages via add-ons such as spa services, tours, water sports, green fees and food and beverages at Royal Resorts restaurants, all of them at preferential rates.

    Because we want to provide greater benefits to our members, we have established some differences between the programs that members and non-members will have access to. The most significant difference is the fact that members will be offered an optional special all-inclusive package at a discounted price. Non-members will have their room, food and beverages and other services built into a mandatory all-inclusive package sold at the market rate. Non-members will not have access to the special all-inclusive package for members. This will help maintain our resorts efficiently and improve occupancy, thus providing a platform for further discounts and benefits to members; it´s not only about saving you money, but also about giving something back to you for being one of our extremely valuable members.

    This program is scheduled to be launched at The Royal Sands and The Royal Haciendas in Week 43, October 27, 2012 with the intention of rolling it out to others in 2013. We will be sending more information on this program in the near future but we wanted you to be the first ones to read about it. We hope you are as excited as we are about this upcoming program and that you will find great value in it.

    For further details on how the program will work and what it entails, please refer to the FAQ section below.

Sincerely,
Royal Resorts Management

Frequently Asked Questions

1. How does the program work?
Royal Resorts members will have a set of different packages at discounted prices that they can choose from to customize their vacation and enjoy during their stay. Members may purchase these at any time before or during their vacation.

2. As a Member, what will my discount be?
Royal Resorts is currently in the process of establishing rates and discounts for the variety of packages that will be offered. Because the packages are so different, discounts will vary depending on services and participating suppliers.

3. In which resorts will these special packages be offered?
They are scheduled to be offered in The Royal Sands and The Royal Haciendas starting Week 43, October 27, 2012. We will inform members in due time about the date when we expect to start offering packages at other Royal Resorts.

4. What type of packages will I be able to purchase?
These packages can include a special all-inclusive package for members, weddings and special events, spa services, golf, specialty dining, theme parks, water sports and trips to archaeological sites among others.

5. What does the special all-inclusive package for members include?
The special all-inclusive package for members includes food and beverages and other services such as, room amenities, Sunday maid service, room service, supervised kids club, tips, and taxes among others, all of them at discounted prices. Members will also have the option of customizing and upgrading this package by adding other items such as specialty dining, spa services, and entertainment.

6. Is the special all-inclusive package for members mandatory or optional?
All packages including the special all-inclusive package will be optional for members. This package will not be available for non-members.

7. What will the packages program look like for non-members?
Non-members will have their room, food and beverages and other services built into their all-inclusive package sold at the market rate and they will also have the option of purchasing additional packages should they wish to do so.

8. Which criteria determine whether the packages are optional?
All members registered in the membership agreement will have optional access regardless of how they are staying at the resort, e.g. a Royal Resorts member who exchanges or rents at Royal Resorts will have optional access to all packages.
Family and friends staying as guests of a member in their unit(s) will have optional access to all packages.

9. What will be the quality of food and beverages if I choose to purchase the package?
Royal Resorts will ensure that any food and beverages sold at the resorts will maintain the same level of quality that is currently offered at the resort restaurants.

10. Should I expect more people staying at the resort?
The resort facilities and amenities are designed to accommodate maximum occupancy. We do expect the program to bring more guests to the resorts. We look to increase our occupancy but only to a level where we can operate and manage the resorts and its services with the same quality standards.

11. Will the atmosphere in the resorts change?
We believe that the resort atmosphere will not change. The quality standards we are known for will be maintained and we will continue to adhere to the Resort Tips and guidelines; as an example antisocial behavior will not be tolerated and management will reserve the right to refuse serving alcohol to anyone who is visibly impaired. What will change is that more people will be enjoying the excellent quality and services provided at our restaurants and this will allow us to pass on discounts to our valued members.

12. How do I get additional information about the program?
We are in the process of establishing the full details and usage guidelines of these new packages and will be posting regular updates on www.royalresorts.com/packages.

13. How can I purchase one or more of the aforementioned packages for my vacation?
The purchase of packages is not available at the moment. We will send an announcement to members as soon as it becomes available. "


I for one am VERY upset about this.  I DO believe this will change the atmosphere of the Royals, and in a negative way,  

Michelle


----------



## suzannesimon

Hmmm. I was hoping to trade into the Royals next year. Now I'm not so sure.  I'll be interested to hear how much they charge for the AI and what's included.


----------



## pjrose

Wow.  I'm speechless.  OK, I'm NEVER speechless.

It seems clear to me that the all-inclusive for non-members is for those renting from the Royals (ISCO).  This corresponds with how the new royalresorts.com emphasizes renting with "Check Rates and Availability..." and "Check-In" and "Check-Out" allowing any date, not just Saturdays.  

I think that private agreements between me and my friends is exempt, because of the statement, "Non-members will have their room, food and beverages and other services built into their all-inclusive package sold at the market rate."  They can't dictate the rental price of a member-rented unit, and since it sounds like they are selling the packages....it wouldn't seem to apply to the way we rent our own units.  You are all my friends 

Exchanging is a good question; it remains to be seen how II fits into all this.

ocdb8r, put the Tris on your list, and rent from one of your many owner-friends so you'll be their guests!

Good points above re exchange desirability, possible change in atmosphere due to more alcohol, etc.  

It'll be interesting to see what the packages are; I hope there are some partial meal packages.  

And once we see, if we don't like it, then we need to deluge them with emails.  Time to hop over to the member sites to see what the talk is.......


----------



## heathpack

Very sorry to hear of this.  It is a real shame.

H


----------



## pjrose

heathpack said:


> Very sorry to hear of this.  It is a real shame.
> 
> H



But Heath, I'm pretty sure if you occupy one of your FRIEND's units, you'll be fine.  All TUGgers are of course friends!


----------



## heathpack

pjrose said:


> But Heath, I'm pretty sure if you occupy one of your FRIEND's units, you'll be fine.  All TUGgers are of course friends!



Haha, you're right.

One concern would be the cost, of course, but of bigger concern to me is the potential for changing the flavor of the resort.  With mandatory AI, there is a serious disincentive to provide decent food and there is a serious incentive for folks to overconsume alcohol.  We've only spent 2 weeks at Royal Resorts, but we really liked the relaxed vibe.  I would worry that the vibe will change for the worse.

We recently picked up a Starwood week, so for the foreseeable future should be able to exchange into the Westin Lagunamar.  Despite that, however, it had been our intention to visit every Royal.  Maybe we still will, we'll just have to see how this all pans out.

We will be in Cabo for 2 weeks in April, then at Lagunamar and the Grand Luxxe for 2 weeks in Nov/Dec, so we will probably be not be back to Mexico until late 2013 or 2014, plenty of time to hear how things shake out.

H


----------



## pjrose

heathpack said:


> Haha, you're right.
> 
> One concern would be the cost, of course, but *of bigger concern to me is the potential for changing the flavor of the resort.  With mandatory AI, there is a serious disincentive to provide decent food and there is a serious incentive for folks to overconsume alcohol.  We've only spent 2 weeks at Royal Resorts, but we really liked the relaxed vibe.  I would worry that the vibe will change for the worse.*
> 
> We recently picked up a Starwood week, so for the foreseeable future should be able to exchange into the Westin Lagunamar.  Despite that, however, *it had been our intention to visit every Royal.*  Maybe we still will, we'll just have to see how this all pans out.
> 
> We will be in Cabo for 2 weeks in April, then at Lagunamar and the Grand Luxxe for 2 weeks in Nov/Dec, so we will probably be not be back to Mexico until late 2013 or 2014, plenty of time to hear how things shake out.
> 
> H



I, too, am worried about the flavor or vibe changing.  One thing I don't like is that the new layout of royalresorts.com is impersonal and seems to stress renting - and not Saturday-Saturday.  There's nothing sacred about Saturday-Saturday, but how on earth will they keep people in the same unit for mid-week rentals?  Are there that many units that are management-owned or controlled?  

As far as visiting every Royal, count the Tris as one, and just do a different pool area and restaurant each day.  It honestly doesn't matter much where you sleep!  

PM me next time you're thinking of going to a Royal; it'd be fun to go at the same time!  I can't think ahead to 2013 or 2014; heck, I don't even know if we're going this summer!


----------



## heathpack

pjrose said:


> It'd be fun to go at the same time!  I can't think ahead to 2013 or 2014; heck, I don't even know if we're going this summer!



Yes, that would be fun!

H


----------



## Finsky

heathpack said:


> Very sorry to hear of this.  It is a real shame.
> 
> H



From what I am reading it sounds like guests using your Royal Resorts weeks will be exempt from the AI packages and opt in if they choose.

We do not own at the Royals, but have been renting units for the past 8 years.  We love the Royal Sands and so do my kids.  It's like going home.  I think that the AI is really going to change the vibe for the resort.  Also like someone mentioned gone will be the Sunday Welcome Party, Happy Hour, Free chips & salsa if it goes AI.

Looks like we would go to the Lagunamar or over to Isla Mujeres and rent at Ixchel or Nautica Beach.  AI has never appealed to me, I feel like I would over eat or drink at an AI.

It's like going on a cruise and going to breakfast with every intention of getting a yogurt & fruit and leaving with a full plate of waffles & bacon!!

Boo hoo :annoyed:


----------



## DrRx

What about those "renters" that have already confirmed an II exchange into the RH or RS for a stay "after" the Oct 27 effective date of the AI policy?? As the transaction has already been completed and has been accepted by all parties involved, the Royals will not be able to retroactively force those "renters" into the mandatory AI program. Similarly, since the Royals have not yet finalized their pricing, II exchanges currently being completed will also need to be exempted from mandatory AI for the renters; i.e. the exchange couldn`t include a requirement to pay an AI supplement, "the price of which would be determined at a future date".

So I am guessing for the time being it will need to be business as usual for II exchanges into the RH and RS. Thus, if anyone is sitting on the fence, now would be the time to act I think.


----------



## Finsky

I would agree, I don't think that they could force someone to pay all-inclusive charges if the person books now.

I just contacted the Royal Resorts and they don't have specifics right now.  They are considering it a "project" so I guess we will all wait and see.


----------



## Helene4

[My experience led me to buy two additional replacement weeks at the Royal Resorts whose integrity I have come to trust implicitly over the last nine years.[/QUOTE]

Still trust them implicitly?


----------



## X-ring

Helene4 said:


> [My experience led me to buy two additional replacement weeks at the Royal Resorts whose integrity I have come to trust implicitly over the last nine years.



Still trust them implicitly?[/QUOTE]

Hmm-m-m if any aspect of anyone's contract has been abrogated I guess I've missed it.

What article(s) in your contract have they broken?


----------



## X-ring

Finsky said:


> I think that the AI is really going to change the vibe for the resort.



That would be my main concern as long as the AI doesn't become mandatory for members. I would prefer the vibe to stay exactly as it is but unfortunately the world around us is changing and it is impacting the Royals as is obvious when you check the number of units listed for resale .

As we know, the economy has been rough for some the last few years and there may be more pain ahead. We also know that the RH and TRC are not sold out and under this circumstance, I understand (feel free to correct me) that the Royals assume the maintenance for these unsold units. If this situation were to continue for several more years (not an impossibility by any stretch), is there not a possibility that the management company itself would come under severe financial stress? Then where would that leave us?

The above has been of concern to me for a while. So personally I am pleased to see that they are proactively trying to do something to raise revenue and in the process minimize the possibility of eventually having to put our investment in our vacations at risk.


----------



## jbuzzy11

im also wondering if the owner has to be checked in to the resort for the guest of the owner to have the AI option waved? this way just renting from an owner wont be valid and the renter will have to pay the AI fees?  ill be putting my exchange to the Royals on hold till I get some answers.  sad all around.....


----------



## pjrose

jbuzzy11 said:


> im also wondering if the owner has to be checked in to the resort for the guest of the owner to have the AI option waved? this way just renting from an owner wont be valid and the renter will have to pay the AI fees?  ill be putting my exchange to the Royals on hold till I get some answers.  sad all around.....



At this point it doesn't SAY so, so I'd argue no.  If they think of that....then it could become an issue.  

I've got to go check my contracts to see what they say about renting and guests....


----------



## kenie

This is a response from Mark Carney to a poster on the Royal Resorts members forum.

"Mark Carney director of marketing and sales quickly answered my question. It doesn't get any clearer than this. 

I do believe that there is a huge misunderstanding .You will of course 
be able to continue to rent your weeks to whoever and at whatever price 
you would like. The AI package does not need to be included.

The renters you book directly into your units will not have to pay the AI rate if you so wish. Nothing has changed for Members in that respect."

So it looks like owners can still rent their unit without the renter having to pay the AI fee.

They really shouldn't have announced this before they had the pricing and details in place.
It really does diminish their reputation...


----------



## yumdrey

kenie said:


> This is a response from Mark Carney to a poster on the Royal Resorts members forum.
> 
> "Mark Carney director of marketing and sales quickly answered my question. It doesn't get any clearer than this.
> 
> I do believe that there is a huge misunderstanding .You will of course
> be able to continue to rent your weeks to whoever and at whatever price
> you would like. The AI package does not need to be included.
> 
> The renters you book directly into your units will not have to pay the AI rate if you so wish. Nothing has changed for Members in that respect."
> 
> So it looks like owners can still rent their unit without the renter having to pay the AI fee.
> 
> They really shouldn't have announced this before they had the pricing and details in place.
> It really does diminish their reputation...



Then how about II exchangers?
Those royal weeks are deposited by owner, so exchangers are also excluded from AI?
That would be nice to hear.


----------



## pjrose

yumdrey said:


> Then how about II exchangers?
> Those royal weeks are deposited by owner, so exchangers are also excluded from AI?
> That would be nice to hear.



I agree.  It seems to me that member-owned weeks, on which members have paid maintenance fees, should be exempt whether occupied by member, friends, family, renter, OR exchanger.  I sure hope that's the answer we get!


----------



## BoaterMike

pjrose said:


> I agree.  It seems to me that member-owned weeks, on which members have paid maintenance fees, should be exempt whether occupied by member, friends, family, renter, OR exchanger.  I sure hope that's the answer we get!



I hope so.  Sure would be a nightmare to manage if that's not the case.  

Mike


----------



## radmoo

pjrose said:


> I agree.  It seems to me that member-owned weeks, on which members have paid maintenance fees, should be exempt whether occupied by member, friends, family, renter, OR exchanger.  I sure hope that's the answer we get!



I was wondering same.  We own RH week and a Marriott week.  I have a Marriott week on deposit w/II and was hoping to trade for RH in 2013 so we can have back-to-back weeks.  Hopefully we wouldn't be subject to AI the second week.  If someone knows answer, please post or PM me.

Thanks

Meanwhile, we returned last Sat from an AMAZING stay at RH


----------



## jbuzzy11

radmoo said:


> I was wondering same.  We own RH week and a Marriott week.  I have a Marriott week on deposit w/II and was hoping to trade for RH in 2013 so we can have back-to-back weeks.  Hopefully we wouldn't be subject to AI the second week.  If someone knows answer, please post or PM me.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Meanwhile, we returned last Sat from an AMAZING stay at RH



*8.    Which criteria determine whether the packages are optional?
* All members registered in the membership agreement will have optional access regardless of how they are staying at the resort, e.g. a Royal Resorts member who exchanges or rents at Royal Resorts will have optional access to all packages.
 Family and friends staying as guests of a member in their unit(s) will have optional access to all packages


----------



## Phydeaux

yumdrey said:


> Then how about II exchangers?
> Those royal weeks are deposited by owner, so exchangers are also excluded from AI?
> That would be nice to hear.



That's not my interpretation. If a member deposits their villa, it's in the exchange pool, and they no longer control it. They are no longer renting it out, and thus have no idea who will be renting it. Therefore, my understanding is the mandatory AI would indeed be in effect. Only when the _member themselves_ rents out their villa are the renters exempt from the AI package. So, rent from members if you don't want to be forced into the AI package.


----------



## yumdrey

But numerous times, when I exchanged into other resorts (Four Seasons, Willowbrook at lake harmony, Royal Sands, etc..), they treated me like an owner and offered owner discounts. several front desk people told me that it was owner deposit (even if it was one of developer bulk deposits) so I could enjoy owner benefits.


----------



## kenie

It sure would have been nice if they had figured out all the details before rolling this out.


----------



## BoaterMike

This post on the Royal Resorts News Ask Joanna page offers some clarification:  

The all-inclusive packages will be optional for Royal Resorts members regardless of how they are staying at the resort, whether it is in their own villa or in a rental or exchanged unit. Family and friends staying as guests of a member in their unit(s) will have optional access to all packages.
*With regard to your question about exchanging or renting additional space for your guests, I can clarify that if the rental, exchange or guest certificate reservation is in your name as a Royal Resorts member then access to the all-inclusive packages would be optional for the occupants. If the reservation is in the name of a non-member the all-inclusive package would be mandatory.
I hope that this helps answer your question. Please let me know if you have additional concerns*.​
_For what it's worth_, we need to provide objective feedback to RR management about the exchange policy.  

Mike


----------



## pjrose

Posts 86 and 77 are contradictory regarding rentals.

I'll go with 77, since Mark Carney is at the top of the chain.

Regarding non-owners who exchange in, nothing has been answered.


----------



## tschwa2

I think 86 is saying if you put your renter on your reservation as your "guest" who will be checking and your name remains on the reservation as the owner in then AI is optional.  If a a non member rents through the resort or has a reservation where the owner's name has been removed from the reservation the rental will be subject to the mandatory AI.


----------



## radmoo

jbuzzy11 said:


> *8.    Which criteria determine whether the packages are optional?
> * All members registered in the membership agreement will have optional access regardless of how they are staying at the resort, e.g. a Royal Resorts member who exchanges or rents at Royal Resorts will have optional access to all packages.
> Family and friends staying as guests of a member in their unit(s) will have optional access to all packages




Good news, to be sure


----------



## pjrose

tschwa2 said:


> I think 86 is saying if you put your renter on your reservation as your "guest" who will be checking and your name remains on the reservation as the owner in then AI is optional.  If a a non member rents through the resort *or has a reservation where the owner's name has been removed from the reservation the rental will be subject to the mandatory AI.*



I don't think so, because that part of 86 refers to "exchanging or renting additional space"



BoaterMike said:


> *This post on the Royal Resorts News Ask Joanna page offers some clarification:  *
> 
> The all-inclusive packages will be optional for Royal Resorts members regardless of how they are staying at the resort, whether it is in their own villa or in a rental or exchanged unit. Family and friends staying as guests of a member in their unit(s) will have optional access to all packages.
> *With regard to your question about exchanging or renting additional space for your guests,* I can clarify that if the rental, exchange or guest certificate reservation is in your name as a Royal Resorts member then access to the all-inclusive packages would be optional for the occupants. _*If the reservation is in the name of a non-member the all-inclusive package would be mandatory.*_
> I hope that this helps answer your question. Please let me know if you have additional concerns[/B].​
> _For what it's worth_, we need to provide objective feedback to RR management about the exchange policy.
> 
> Mike



And Mark Carney makes it very clear that if it's a private rental, the AI is optional:



kenie said:


> This is a response from Mark Carney to a poster on the Royal Resorts members forum.
> 
> "Mark Carney director of marketing and sales quickly answered my question. It doesn't get any clearer than this.
> 
> *I do believe that there is a huge misunderstanding .You will of course
> be able to continue to rent your weeks to whoever and at whatever price
> you would like. The AI package does not need to be included.
> 
> The renters you book directly into your units will not have to pay the AI rate if you so wish. Nothing has changed for Members in that respect.*"
> 
> So it looks like owners can still rent their unit without the renter having to pay the AI fee.
> 
> They really shouldn't have announced this before they had the pricing and details in place.
> It really does diminish their reputation...


----------



## jbuzzy11

it only makes sense that if you are renting from an owner the AI should be optional, how many of you would be IRATE if you have to turn people away because they dont want the AI. Its hard enough to get it rented at just MF's then try telling someone they have to pay $150 a day for an AI.  Go into RCI and take a look at how many Cancun AI resorts you can grab from now till 2 years from now, Their TPU's (point value) are from 4 to about 8!! Its terrible.
when this _____ the bed and we all know it will they will do a 360 on it. maybe they are testing it out at the 2 Sands and RH to see the response. I hope it fails miserably.


----------



## ml855

Are you guys saying if we have an exchange from II for the Sands we will be forced to do an AI package with our exchange?  The reason I ask is we have an II exchange this June which we've had in place now for over a year and I just would like to know are we going to get hit with this fee upon check-in?  Plus, is this AI fee per person/per day?  How much is the AI fees, and does it include everything during our 7 night stay that we purchase at any of the Royal's restaurants and bars?

Thanks for your answers.
Jean


----------



## buceo

I can only answer that the AI doesn't start until Oct., you should be fine.
"This program is scheduled to be launched at The Royal Sands and The Royal Haciendas in Week 43, October 27, 2012"


----------



## KarenLK

Jean, it goes into effect in October.


----------



## ada903

Let me make sure I understand this: so if I own at Royal Islander, and I travel on an exchange to Royal Haciendas through Interval International, and the exchange is in my name, I don't have to buy the all inclusive?  I guess I'll have to buy a hurricane season cheap Royal Resort so I can continue traveling to the Haciendas through Interval.


----------



## pjrose

ada903 said:


> Let me make sure I understand this: so if I own at Royal Islander, and I travel on an exchange to Royal Haciendas through Interval International, and the exchange is in my name, I don't have to buy the all inclusive?  I guess I'll have to buy a hurricane season cheap Royal Resort so I can continue traveling to the Haciendas through Interval.



Yes, that is correct.  (Post 62 #8)

You also can rent directly from an owner and not have to do AI. (Post 77)


----------



## calgal

It seems only fair that people who secured their exchange via II prior to the new policy should not be required to participate in the AI requirement. I am thinking about grabbing one of the Royals for 2013 now, before this policy is officially set in writing, and hope that my exchange would be grandfathered into the AI optional group.


----------



## Ridewithme38

pjrose said:


> Yes, that is correct.  (Post 62 #8)
> 
> You also can rent directly from an owner and not have to do AI. (Post 77)



This is a Great thing for owners then right?  If they want to rent out their unit it is now more valuable because you can tell your renters 'you can avoid all the AI fees'


----------



## lizhecht

I'm also concerned about the Royals becoming a AI. I avoid any AI myself and when talking to friends who are vegetarians they mention they would never go to a AI.  I am pretty sure that goes for people who have dietary issues, diabetics, celiacs.. The list goes on and on. 
Most families I know tend to like to have a kitchen to make breakfast and lunch in and I doubt many families would choose a mandatory AI. The cost alone makes it prohibitive.
One of the things I enjoy most about going to Mexico is trying out the great restaurants and cuisine of the area. AI rules that out. 
I would be very interested in petitioning the Resort for the option to allow renters an option to buy out.. kind of like a renters fee similar to what other resorts charge for activities. That might also give them a better idea of what people really want.


----------



## jbuzzy11

Ridewithme38 said:


> This is a Great thing for owners then right?  If they want to rent out their unit it is now more valuable because you can tell your renters 'you can avoid all the AI fees'



 I guess you can look at it this way, but its not like people were breaking down doors to get into the resort before all this and to be honest as a person who has rented the past 3 visits (from owners) im not going to go back if the price is higher for me to get a 2 bedroom villa from an owner. I have stayed at the Royals about 20x and I think they are BY FAR and I stress by far the best TS resort anywhere for the money, They just have it all, but If I have to try something else like the Westin Lagunamar I guess I will  I had a search going on with II for summer of 2013 that I just canceled till there is some answers. Hey maybe the AI will pay off?? I doubt it but I hope so.


----------



## Phydeaux

jbuzzy11 said:


> I guess you can look at it this way, but its not like people were breaking down doors to get into the resort before all this and to be honest *as a person who has rented the past 3 visits (from owners)* im not going to go back if the price is higher for me to get a 2 bedroom villa from an owner. I have stayed at the Royals about 20x and I think they are BY FAR and I stress by far the best TS resort anywhere for the money, They just have it all, but If I have to try something else like the Westin Lagunamar I guess I will  I had a search going on with II for summer of 2013 that I just canceled till there is some answers. Hey maybe the AI will pay off?? I doubt it but I hope so.



Since you're renting directly from members, what's your concern? It's been spelled out, the AI requirement is only in effect when non-members rent from the resorts, not when they rent directly from members. When you rent from a member, you're their _friend_? Get it?


----------



## kenie

Phydeaux said:


> Since you're renting directly from members, what's your concern? It's been spelled out, the AI requirement is only in effect when non-members rent from the resorts, not when they rent directly from members. When you rent from a member, you're their _friend_? Get it?



I think his concern is that some members might now try to rent their units at a premium BECAUSE the all-inclusive would be optional...


----------



## Phydeaux

kenie said:


> I think his concern is that some members might now try to rent their units at a premium BECAUSE the all-inclusive would be optional...



If that's the case, good luck to any members attempting that strategy. Given the economy, airfares to Mexico, and general surplus of units in this region, I think most members will be overjoyed just to rent out their uneeded units at any fair price. I certainly know I would. Our lock off was vacant week 8 at the Royal Mayan this year – such a waste, and a shame. First time that’s happened in 20 years though…


----------



## DVB42

if you already have an exchange for Novembe 2012, will you be required to pay the "all inclusive" fee?


----------



## heathpack

I simply don't see how this could be good in any way for owners.  What the heck is going to happen to trade power in Interval if the exchanges are mandatory AI?!  It will absolutely plummet.  Royal owners have a super nice property but will they basically be able to exchange for Butkus now?

Yes, people like those on TUG will figure out work-arounds- direct exchanges with other owners, renting their units out themselves.  But a great many other casual owners are likely to become frustrated- they deposit their unit with II, previously got decent trade, but now between the resort being in Mexico and the AI fee no one wants the deposit, Royal owners in turn get bad trades, then what?  What do people tend to do when they no longer find their timeshare useful?!

Don't mean to come across like a chicken little, but this seems just plain bad to me from every angle.

H


----------



## Finsky

Any rumors about what they plan to package as far as the meals/restaurants at the Royal Sands?  I can't imagine eating all of my meals for the week at La Veranda!!!

Also, I can't see them keeping up at the pool bar/grill if eveyone ordered sandwiches!!  It takes long enough now to get your food at lunchtime.

They would have to offer restaurants at the other Royals (El Conquistador, Captain's Cove, Hacienda Sisal) to make it worth while.


----------



## BoaterMike

Finsky said:


> They would have to offer restaurants at the other Royals (El Conquistador, Captain's Cove, Hacienda Sisal) to make it worth while.



A pretty important piece of the unanswered question puzzle.  The information mentions "specialty" restaurant options.  I guess we'll see eventually.   

Mike


----------



## mstoyanov

You are not looking at this from all angles. Here is a different point of view:
For most people using deposit from Royal resorts as an exchanger is not a good value due to relatively higher maintenance fees (there are better traders with less MFs and higher TP, plus Marriott/Starwood have internal priorities). But now imagine an owner that wants to go to a different week (or multiple weeks) in his own resort (or other Royal resort) in peak season. Decreased desirability for external exchangers will mean that there is much broader availability for said Royal resort owner.
Since owner is not subject to AI fees he will exchange his week much easier (and probably even get a unit size upgrade) than before.
Now go a step further (my personal case) - imagine a Royal Resort owner that also have a very economical traders (low MFs) and wishes to stay for more weeks than he owns in Royal Resorts. 
Now he will be able to stay there for much less than his own MFs using cheap traders with minimal competition from non owners.
I understand that this can be achieved better with implementing internal resort priority (ala Marriott and Starwood) but such priorities are not easy to negotiate with II nor will developer has the same incentive to offer units for sale to external exchangers (the proverbial carrot).



heathpack said:


> I simply don't see how this could be good in any way for owners.  What the heck is going to happen to trade power in Interval if the exchanges are mandatory AI?!  It will absolutely plummet.  Royal owners have a super nice property but will they basically be able to exchange for Butkus now?
> 
> Yes, people like those on TUG will figure out work-arounds- direct exchanges with other owners, renting their units out themselves.  But a great many other casual owners are likely to become frustrated- they deposit their unit with II, previously got decent trade, but now between the resort being in Mexico and the AI fee no one wants the deposit, Royal owners in turn get bad trades, then what?  What do people tend to do when they no longer find their timeshare useful?!
> 
> Don't mean to come across like a chicken little, but this seems just plain bad to me from every angle.
> 
> H


----------



## mstoyanov

Not do disappoint you but exchanging to Westin Lagunamar is not easy dues to Starwood internal priority and the fact that Starwood control all deposits in II. For me even as a Starwood owner using Starwood priority it is not very easy to go during peak times (spring break) due to Starwood simply very rarely depositing these peak weeks. If you do not have a Starwood priority in II you can simply forget getting peak weeks in Westin Lagunamar. Also I can assure you that demand for WLR will get much higher after Royals implement AI policy.
If you can go there off-season then it is much easier (even getting 2BR for 1BR deposit is easy with Starwood trader).



jbuzzy11 said:


> I guess you can look at it this way, but its not like people were breaking down doors to get into the resort before all this and to be honest as a person who has rented the past 3 visits (from owners) im not going to go back if the price is higher for me to get a 2 bedroom villa from an owner. I have stayed at the Royals about 20x and I think they are BY FAR and I stress by far the best TS resort anywhere for the money, They just have it all, but If I have to try something else like the Westin Lagunamar I guess I will  I had a search going on with II for summer of 2013 that I just canceled till there is some answers. Hey maybe the AI will pay off?? I doubt it but I hope so.


----------



## gemsfw

*Royal Nightmare*

Thanks for the heads up from tug members that this situation is occurring. I had three consecutive weeks at Royal Resorts (Jan & Feb 2013) including one week at the Royal Sands. Per my investigation and discussion with Royal Resort and II staff and management, non royal owners who exchange in like I did will be considered non members and will be required to purchase the AI plan at the Royal Sands. Even if you confirmed your exchange prior to the announcement they don't care. They will not grandfather you in or give you a choice. Per a II manager, they recommend that you be prepared to pay the AI fee or immeadately cancel your exchange at all Royal Resorts at no cost or take your chances because they are a third party and have no control over Royal Resorts policies. II is not happy about the situation because it is going to create a major nightmare for them. We canceled and rebooked three consecutive weeks in a Westin studio. If we had waited, we could have been stuck paying the undetermined and ill planned AI fee. I feel sorry for the Royal owners because the II manager said that every time a resort changes to a mandatory AI for exchangers their trading value plummets.


----------



## DVB42

gemsfw said:


> Thanks for the heads up from tug members that this situation is occurring. I had three consecutive weeks at Royal Resorts (Jan & Feb 2013) including one week at the Royal Sands. Per my investigation and discussion with Royal Resort and II staff and management, non royal owners who exchange in like I did will be considered non members and will be required to purchase the AI plan at the Royal Sands. Even if you confirmed your exchange prior to the announcement they don't care. They will not grandfather you in or give you a choice. Per a II manager, they recommend that you be prepared to pay the AI fee or immeadately cancel your exchange at all Royal Resorts at no cost or take your chances because they are a third party and have no control over Royal Resorts policies. II is not happy about the situation because it is going to create a major nightmare for them. We canceled and rebooked three consecutive weeks in a Westin studio. If we had waited, we could have been stuck paying the undetermined and ill planned AI fee. I feel sorry for the Royal owners because the II manager said that every time a resort changes to a mandatory AI for exchangers their trading value plummets.



Not surprising but disappointing information about II exchanges. I have a 2BR unit for November and will cancel it as well. I am not in the least bit interested in an all inclusive resort. We really like the Royal Haciendas and spend considerable money there with the Scuba Dive shop and Spa services. I wonder how much these operations will be affected.


----------



## SDMiller

*Encourage TUG Trades!*

This should encourage us Tuggers to exchange with each other rather than thru II.  There really shouldn't be a problem registerd as a "guest".

Some how we will figure a "work around".

SD


----------



## jbuzzy11

SDMiller said:


> This should encourage us Tuggers to exchange with each other rather than thru II.  There really shouldn't be a problem registerd as a "guest".
> 
> Some how we will figure a "work around".
> 
> SD



the only problem with this is you have to find an exact swap and I just cant see there being many matches.


----------



## jbuzzy11

DVB42 said:


> Not surprising but disappointing information about II exchanges. I have a 2BR unit for November and will cancel it as well. I am not in the least bit interested in an all inclusive resort. We really like the Royal Haciendas and spend considerable money there with the Scuba Dive shop and Spa services. I wonder how much these operations will be affected.



you say you have an exchange for Nov, you can still keep it if its at any royal except the Sands and haciendas, they will not change to AI until 2013 at the other resorts


----------



## Ridewithme38

jbuzzy11 said:


> the only problem with this is you have to find an exact swap and I just cant see there being many matches.



There is no such thing as an exact match, every day on every exchange companies website people trade up and down, the trick is IF you have to trade down, you have to match it out by trading up the next time


----------



## pjrose

Ridewithme38 said:


> There is no such thing as an exact match, every day on every exchange companies website people trade up and down, the trick is IF you have to trade down, you have to match it out by trading up the next time



A better phrase may be a direct exchange or direct match, that is, I trade my xx for your yy.  Yes, the trades may be up or down, but the point is, you and I work together directly instead of depositing into and exchange from the II pool.  Since we know each other, we are friends, and our friends can use our Royal villa without the AI.


----------



## frankhi

We have an exchange into the Sands for 11/3, so it seems we would have to get the AI, but it might be fun, worth a try, for us anyhow....my only concern is we don't usually go for the whole week, more like Sun-Fri. I hope they have more then just a weekly rate....any thoughts or experience with other AIs?


----------



## suzannesimon

Does anyone have any idea what the charge for AI will be?


----------



## pjrose

frankhi said:


> We have an exchange into the Sands for 11/3, so it seems we would have to get the AI, but it might be fun, worth a try, for us anyhow....my only concern is we don't usually go for the whole week, more like Sun-Fri. I hope they have more then just a weekly rate....any thoughts or experience with other AIs?



Apparently if you rent through royalresorts.com you can choose less than a week.  I don't know about the AI plans or rates; they haven't been announced yet. 



suzannesimon said:


> Does anyone have any idea what the charge for AI will be?



Not yet; check www.royalresorts.com/packages for updates.


----------



## DrRx

pjrose said:


> A better phrase may be a direct exchange or direct match, that is, I trade my xx for your yy.  Yes, the trades may be up or down, but the point is, you and I work together directly instead of depositing into and exchange from the II pool.  Since we know each other, we are friends, and our friends can use our Royal villa without the AI.



Just to clarify, such a direct exchange would only be necessary IF you are trading with a Royal non-member and trying to help them avoid the AI fees.  If you are a Royal member, there's still no reason not to use an II exchange to get a different week at a Royal resort, because no matter how a Royal member comes into possession of a Royal reservation, whether thru II, a direct exchange, a personal rental or an ISCO internal exchange, members never have to buy into the AI program.

The only real change wrt the II exchanges is that likely the majority of those exchanges will end up being between Royal members, so II may end up becoming a better option to trade weeks/resorts within the Royal system (but it will suck big time for external trades).  Alternatively, the ISCO internal exchange system may become more useful (I've never had good luck there because I think usage by members was rather low) because trades are now more likely to remain between members and thus usage should increase.

I wonder if management has fully thought of the real impact of this proposed AI program.  It's going to drive away the very customers that the Royals have counted on in the past to drive their new unit sales - the non-member guests that get exposed to the Royal system through II exchanges and rentals!!  That's how we ended up buying - we traded in with our Disney week.  Wouldn't do that now if I had to pay AI fees!!


----------



## Helene4

Replied on 3/26/2012 3:15:26 PM  Delete 
By ROYAL RESORTS MANAGEMENT: Dear Susan: The I.I. reservation was made in your name therefore your son will have optional access to the all-inclusive package, even though you will not be accompanying him during his stay. Furthermore, any reservations made prior to our announcement will be respected regardless of the date that they are for. 
I hope that this answers your query. 


This was posted by management on their Royal Resorts website for members.


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## tashamen

DVB42 said:


> Not surprising but disappointing information about II exchanges. I have a 2BR unit for November and will cancel it as well. I am not in the least bit interested in an all inclusive resort. We really like the Royal Haciendas and spend considerable money there with the Scuba Dive shop and Spa services. I wonder how much these operations will be affected.



I'm really disappointed as well.  We've exchanged into RH the last two summers but decided to skip this year, thinking we'd go back next year.  Now we probably won't ever go back even if I could rent or do a direct exchange with an owner, because the idea of being at an AI resort is just not appealing.


----------



## kenie

tashamen said:


> I'm really disappointed as well.  We've exchanged into RH the last two summers but decided to skip this year, thinking we'd go back next year.  Now we probably won't ever go back even if I could rent or do a direct exchange with an owner, because the idea of being at an AI resort is just not appealing.




If you make the reservation prior to the new program starting, you should be fine as the RR rep said it would be honoured.


----------



## Finsky

Helene4 said:


> Replied on 3/26/2012 3:15:26 PM  Delete
> By ROYAL RESORTS MANAGEMENT: Dear Susan: The I.I. reservation was made in your name therefore your son will have optional access to the all-inclusive package, even though you will not be accompanying him during his stay. Furthermore, any reservations made prior to our announcement will be respected regardless of the date that they are for.
> I hope that this answers your query.
> 
> 
> This was posted by management on their Royal Resorts website for members.



So does this mean that if you have a reservation for after the implementation date and you are a NON MEMBER that you wouldn't have to pay for the all-inclusive package?


----------



## Karen G

tashamen said:


> the idea of being at an AI resort is just not appealing.


I have a little different perspective on an AI resort not being appealing. We've owned at the PB Rose in Cabo since 1998 and have been going there just about every year. Last summer they offered an all-inclusive plan for the first time and we tried it.

Now, I'll grant you that it wasn't mandatory and we got a great rate as owners, which was reduced even further when we did a presentation. But, the whole week-long experience was just wonderful. We didn't have to worry about where we were going to eat each night or how much each meal was going to cost or what the bill might be if everyone in our party ordered a drink or two.  We could order whatever we wanted at the pool for lunch. We could attend every special event each night.  We didn't have to shop for groceries and try to use up everything we had bought before the week was over.  The whole week was just very relaxing and enjoyable.

In other words, we found it very appealing and look forward to doing it again.  My suggestion for Royals owners is to try it--you just might like it.


----------



## tashamen

kenie said:


> If you make the reservation prior to the new program starting, you should be fine as the RR rep said it would be honoured.



That's not what post #113 here is saying:

"Thanks for the heads up from tug members that this situation is occurring. I had three consecutive weeks at Royal Resorts (Jan & Feb 2013) including one week at the Royal Sands. Per my investigation and discussion with Royal Resort and II staff and management, non royal owners who exchange in like I did will be considered non members and will be required to purchase the AI plan at the Royal Sands. Even if you confirmed your exchange prior to the announcement they don't care. They will not grandfather you in or give you a choice."

So does anyone know which is correct?


----------



## pjrose

Helene4 said:


> Replied on 3/26/2012 3:15:26 PM  Delete
> By ROYAL RESORTS MANAGEMENT: Dear Susan: The I.I. reservation was made in your name therefore your son will have optional access to the all-inclusive package, even though you will not be accompanying him during his stay. Furthermore, any reservations made prior to our announcement will be respected regardless of the date that they are for.
> I hope that this answers your query.
> 
> 
> This was posted by management on their Royal Resorts website for members.





kenie said:


> If you make the reservation prior to the new program starting, you should be fine as the RR rep said it would be honoured.



No, the above says prior to the announcement, not prior to program start. 



Finsky said:


> So does this mean that if you have a reservation for after the implementation date and you are a NON MEMBER that you wouldn't have to pay for the all-inclusive package?





tashamen said:


> That's not what post #113 here is saying:
> 
> "Thanks for the heads up from tug members that this situation is occurring. I had three consecutive weeks at Royal Resorts (Jan & Feb 2013) including one week at the Royal Sands. Per my investigation and discussion with Royal Resort and II staff and management, non royal owners who exchange in like I did will be considered non members and will be required to purchase the AI plan at the Royal Sands. Even if you confirmed your exchange prior to the announcement they don't care. They will not grandfather you in or give you a choice."
> 
> So does anyone know which is correct?



Helene4's post, in red, is in writing from the royal resorts website.  I would go with that rather than Tashamen's because as far as I can tell that was a discussion and is not in writing from the Royals.

However, Helene4's red post doesn't say WHAT will be respected.......

The Royals need to figure out the issues of 1) II exchangers and 2) reservations made before the announcement and then put that in writing.


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## Helene4

OK...Here's the whole inquiry:   

What if we do an II exchange for a family member?  Are they required to buy into the AI if my husband or I are not with them?  

I exchanged one of our summer Royal Mayan weeks for a November week at the Haciendas.  About three hours after I received my exchange, I received the email from Royal Resorts about the AI.  I would never have exchanged into the Haciendas if I'd known my son might be required to buy into the AI.  He will be attending a wedding at a nearby AI resort.  I made the exchange to the Haciendas for him because he was not interested in AI.



Page: [1]  
Replied on 3/24/2012 12:12:22 PM  Delete 
By BARBARA MINZER: I want to add a related question. Does it make a difference in the case described here whether the exchange was made through Interval International or ISCO. 


I know that Interval International requires the purchase of a guest certificate if the II member making the exchange will not be checking into the unit obtained through an exchange. My understanding is that in order for a guest to refuse the AI package, the exchanged unit must be in the member's name and the member in that case must be present at checkin. 


I do not know how this issue is handled with ISCO. If one member was exchanging his unit for another member's unit, then I think that AI should be optional, since, according to the rules, it is optional for a non member staying in a member's unit even if the member is not there. 
Page: [1]  
Replied on 3/26/2012 1:55:40 PM  Delete 
By : 


I'm still waiting for an answer.  Would someone from the Royals please reply?

Thank you.

Page: [1]  
Replied on 3/26/2012 3:15:26 PM  Delete 
By ROYAL RESORTS MANAGEMENT: Dear Susan: The I.I. reservation was made in your name therefore your son will have optional access to the all-inclusive package, even though you will not be accompanying him during his stay. Furthermore, any reservations made prior to our announcement will be respected regardless of the date that they are for. 
I hope that this answers your query. 
Page: [1]  
Replied on 3/26/2012 6:01:31 PM  Delete 
By : 

Thank you for your reply.  
 Post reply


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## kenie

My bad..  If it  is based on the announcement date rather than the implementation date, then exchangers would have issues.

sigh......

We will be at the Sands and the Haciendas in May, so hopefully there will be a lot more info by then.
We have no plans to go to the Royals in 2013 when our Mayan expires but were going to go back in 2014.
I guess we get to sit on the sidelines for  a year and see if it makes sense to pick up another resale week.....


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## pjrose

I read on http://royalresortowners.ning.com/ that the AI for non-members would be $900/week/person.  
I don't know if that is just talk, or official. 

If that's for real, and people want to go to the Royals but avoid the AI, that could increase the resale market....become a member and don't have to pay AI.


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## tashamen

pjrose said:


> I read on http://royalresortowners.ning.com/ that the AI for non-members would be $900/week/person.
> I don't know if that is just talk, or official.
> 
> If that's for real, and people want to go to the Royals but avoid the AI, that could increase the resale market....become a member and don't have to pay AI.



That's what I was just thinking - maybe we should just buy a week at RH and avoid the issue...now if I can only convince DH that we need another ts...


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## jbuzzy11

pjrose said:


> I read on http://royalresortowners.ning.com/ that the AI for non-members would be $900/week/person.
> I don't know if that is just talk, or official.
> 
> If that's for real, and people want to go to the Royals but avoid the AI, that could increase the resale market....become a member and don't have to pay AI.



   Wow that's great, only $3600 for my family to eat food! Then we add the exchange and my MF of about $900 plus air of about $2000 and we have HOLD ON TO YOUR SEATS KIDDIES!!! $6500 and that's without a car or spending a peso on anything else...  Guess I'll be renting or heading to Florida more often.


----------



## pjrose

*Regarding pre-existing exchange or rental reservations:*

Just posted today on the Royal Resorts site:

18. Will non-members who have already made reservations to stay at The Royal Haciendas or The Royal Sands prior to the commencement of the All-Inclusive program have to purchase the mandatory All-Inclusive package?
No, non-members who have already made a rental or international exchange reservation will not have to purchase the mandatory package. This new program does not affect existing reservations, regardless of the occupancy date.

This clarifies the difference between posts 113 (NOT grandfathered in) and 124 (reservations before the announcement will be honored....but it doesn't say WHAT will be honored)

Bottom line: pre-existing reservations for rentals or exchanges will NOT have mandatory AI.

Edited - I just re-read #18 above; the FAQ refers to "prior to the *commencement of the...program*, while I had interpreted it as prior to the *announcement*.  Good grief, this is confusing.


----------



## pjrose

*The rest of the March 27 updates from royalresorts.com*

From the members' area:


CRITERIA THAT DETERMINES WHETHER PACKAGES ARE OPTIONAL
14. If a Member exchanges through an International Exchange company or does an internal exchange with Interval Servicing Co. (ISCO) or rents will the Member have to purchase the Special All-inclusive Member package?
No, the Member will have optional access to the special all-inclusive package for members.

15. If Members acquire additional space for their guests either through an International exchange company, or an Internal Exchange with ISCO or a rental but the guests are not staying in the same unit as the Member, do they have optional access to the All-Inclusive Package?
If the reservation is in the name of a Member, their guests will have optional access to the All-Inclusive package. If the Reservation is NOT in the name of a Member, their guests will not have optional access to the All-Inclusive package.

16. If a Member loans or rents their units privately will the person they rent to have optional access to the All-Inclusive Package?
Yes, they will have optional access to the All-Inclusive package.

17. If a Member has non-member friends who exchange into Royal Resorts with their own timeshare, not a Royal Resorts membership, through an International exchange company, will they have to purchase the mandatory All-Inclusive package?
Yes, it will be mandatory for the non-member friends.

18. Will non-members who have already made reservations to stay at The Royal Haciendas or The Royal Sands prior to the commencement of the All-Inclusive program have to purchase the mandatory All-Inclusive package?
No, non-members who have already made a rental or international exchange reservation will not have to purchase the mandatory package. This new program does not affect existing reservations, regardless of the occupancy date.

19. Are the resorts on St. Maarten, Curacao and Aruba operated with Systems by Royal Resorts going to participate in the packages program?
Simpson Bay Resort, The Villas at Simpson Bay Resort, Sea Aquarium Resort and Costa Linda are not currently participating in the packages program.

20. When will the full details and prices of all the packages be released?
Package details and prices will be published by July 2, 2012, to commence on October 27, 2012 (week 43).

21. Are Members going to be charged for any services that have always been complimentary in the past?
No, they will not be charged for services that have been complimentary in the past.

22. Is the Special All-Inclusive Package for Members going to be mandatory at some point?
No, it will remain optional as long as the existing membership agreements last. However, we do hope that the Special All-Inclusive packages for Members are attractive enough for Members to take advantage of them.

RESORT AMBIANCE & SERVICES

23. Will the Resort Atmosphere Change?
We would like to assure you that Royal Resorts is committed to maintaining the family atmosphere that you have always experienced and enjoy so much. Royal Resorts has always focused upon quality and will continue to provide the highest possible standards.
A significant proportion of Royal Resorts guests have always been non-members. As of October 2012, non-member renters and exchangers will have to pay a considerably higher rate that includes packages such as the food and beverage package referred to; this should assist in ensuring a desired level of clientele.
Furthermore, there are various high-end all-inclusive resorts in the area that have been awarded with numerous international honors for the quality of the guest experience they offer.

24.	How are the additional services offered in the Special All-Inclusive package going to affect my Annual Maintenance Fees (aka Club Service Fees)?
Your annual Club Service Fee will not be affected in any way. These services will be covered with the additional fee integrated in the rental rate and an additional fee for exchangers, non-members and members who choose to purchase it.

25. FOOD AND BEVERAGES

a. Are the food and beverage facilities adequate to provide a good All-Inclusive experience?
Extensive research and competitive analysis was conducted in-house and by third parties prior to making the decision to launch the packages program at The Royal Haciendas and The Royal Sands. The facilities are more than adequate for this program.

b. Which restaurants would be included in the All-inclusive program? Can you eat at Hacienda Sisal, El Conquistador, Captain’s Cove and Los Murales?
There will be a Specialty Dining Package that will include food and beverages in the aforementioned restaurants.

c. What will happen to Happy Hour?
It will continue with half-priced drinks.

d. What will happen to the Welcome Party?
The Welcome Party is an event organized and paid for by the Sales & Marketing department and will continue.

e. How will this program affect the food and beverage offered to Members who decide not to purchase the All-Inclusive package?
We will continue to offer the same high quality standards and aim to offer even better value for members regardless of whether they participate in the Special All-Inclusive Package for Members or not.

f. Will guests have to wear wristbands?
There will have to be some form of fast and effective identification for those guests participating in the All-Inclusive program. Wristbands are an option.


----------



## pjrose

jbuzzy11 said:


> Wow that's great, only $3600 for my family to eat food! Then we add the exchange and my MF of about $900 plus air of about $2000 and we have HOLD ON TO YOUR SEATS KIDDIES!!! $6500 and that's without a car or spending a peso on anything else...  Guess I'll be renting or heading to Florida more often.



A good reason to rent from an owner on TUG


----------



## jbuzzy11

pjrose said:


> Just posted today on the Royal Resorts site:
> 
> 18. Will non-members who have already made reservations to stay at The Royal Haciendas or The Royal Sands prior to the commencement of the All-Inclusive program have to purchase the mandatory All-Inclusive package?
> No, non-members who have already made a rental or international exchange reservation will not have to purchase the mandatory package. This new program does not affect existing reservations, regardless of the occupancy date.
> 
> This clarifies the difference between posts 113 (NOT grandfathered in) and 124 (reservations before the announcement will be honored....but it doesn't say WHAT will be honored)
> 
> Bottom line: pre-existing reservations for rentals or exchanges will NOT have mandatory AI.



im still a little fuzzy on one thing, I know if you have an exchange already you are grandfathered in to the RH and sands but what if I make an exchange to the Royal Cancun in 2013 in the next few days?  nothing is set in stone for the other 4 resorts in cancun as of yet? Are they saying things wont change till there is an exact week for those other 4 resorts? Maybe I can get in under the wire?


----------



## mtpdave

I for one am confident that this will end up very positive for owners! So hold on to those negative thougts and get stoked!   The Haciendas is a class act and will probably get even better.  We love it!  Now, what will the Dive Balam offer...?


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## Ridewithme38

So this means i'm not going to be able to rent a week at a Royal Resort at lowball prices because of the AI Fees?

That doesn't sound good to me!


----------



## geoffb

Like others we were hearing about this during Week 10 and 11 at VCI so I was not surprised to see the email announcement when we got back.

It was clear to me that one of the driving forces behind this is that the developer feels that the market research is showing that not having any sort of AI option is a negative for the Royals and they are missing out on a lot of potential customers as a result. (From an SEO perspective it definitely is hurting their visibility when people research trips online.)

In other words they think that having AI options will bring in more renters and exchangers. We'll see if that proves true.

Obviously _someone_ likes AI when you consider that new AI resorts appear in the hotel zone each year including the gigantic 4th RIU going up near Casa Maya down from VCI.

It also does create a situation where members have a clear privilege that a renter or exchange from off the street doesn't get and I know at least some owners who will actually like that.

-G


----------



## pjrose

*Confusing wording re exchanges*



pjrose said:


> Just posted today on the Royal Resorts site:
> 
> 18. Will non-members who have already made reservations to stay at The Royal Haciendas or The Royal Sands prior to the commencement of the All-Inclusive program have to purchase the mandatory All-Inclusive package?
> No, non-members who have already made a rental or international exchange reservation will not have to purchase the mandatory package. This new program does not affect existing reservations, regardless of the occupancy date.
> 
> This clarifies the difference between posts 113 (NOT grandfathered in) and 124 (reservations before the announcement will be honored....but it doesn't say WHAT will be honored)
> 
> Bottom line: pre-existing reservations for rentals or exchanges will NOT have mandatory AI.





jbuzzy11 said:


> im still a little fuzzy on one thing, I know if you have an exchange already you are grandfathered in to the RH and sands but what if I make an exchange to the Royal Cancun in 2013 in the next few days?  nothing is set in stone for the other 4 resorts in cancun as of yet? Are they saying things wont change till there is an exact week for those other 4 resorts? Maybe I can get in under the wire?



I'm fuzzy too.  #18 only refers to RH and RS.  And on re-reading it, the question in 18 refers to "prior to the commencement of the All-Inclusive program" - NOT to prior to the announcement.  I think I misinterpreted that above.  

The way it's worded (commencement vs announcement), it's more advantageous to exchangers.....

But again, no idea at all about TRC, RM, RC, and RI


----------



## pjrose

Ridewithme38 said:


> So this means i'm not going to be able to rent a week at a Royal Resort at lowball prices because of the AI Fees?
> 
> That doesn't sound good to me!



Yes, you CAN rent from an owner and not have the AI.....maybe not lowball, as we do like at least covering our MF and many weeks rent for above MF, but still less than a hotel!


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## Ridewithme38

pjrose said:


> Yes, you CAN rent from an owner and not have the AI.....maybe not lowball, as we do like at least covering our MF and many weeks rent for above MF, *but still less than a hotel!*



http://hoteldelsolcancun.com/Ofertas.html

Only 1,100 Peso's for 2 nites...i have no idea how much 1,100 peso's is, but it sounds cheap!


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## pjrose

Ridewithme38 said:


> http://hoteldelsolcancun.com/Ofertas.html
> 
> Only 1,100 Peso's for 2 nites...i have no idea how much 1,100 peso's is, but it sounds cheap!



Roughly, divide the pesos by 10 or 11, so that's around $100. Less if the exchange rate is better (I'm not up on it at the moment).

But is that just a hotel room?


----------



## siesta

Current rate is about $1 = 12.7 pesos

MX$1100 = $86.63


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## beach.bar.bob

pjrose said:


> Roughly, divide the pesos by 10 or 11, so that's around $100. Less if the exchange rate is better (I'm not up on it at the moment).
> 
> But is that just a hotel room?



On 3/27/2012 the exchange rate was 12.71 pesos per USD. 
Thus 1100 pesos coverts to $86.55.  

See http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1&From=USD&To=MXN for current exchange rates. 

Safe travels. 

bbb


----------



## KarenLK

It is a bussines hotel, their spelling, so either downtown or near airport, probably no pool. Not the same as VCI.


----------



## Karen G

KarenLK said:


> It is a bussines hotel, their spelling, so either downtown or near airport, probably no pool. Not the same as VCI.


It's across from the ferry dock. You can click on "English" and see the whole website in English. It certainly is nothing like any of the Royal Resorts.


----------



## pjrose

KarenLK said:


> It is a bussines hotel, their spelling, so either downtown or near airport, probably no pool. Not the same as VCI.



Is this the cheap one Ride posted about?


----------



## Karen G

pjrose said:


> Is this the cheap one Ride posted about?


Yes, click on my link in post #150.


----------



## goodjobwm

pjrose said:


> From the members' area:
> 20. When will the full details and prices of all the packages be released?
> Package details and prices will be published by July 2, 2012, to commence on October 27, 2012 (week 43).



I just exchanged via II for a week to stay at Royal Sand from 6/16/2012 - 6/23/2012.

I've read all this new rules, and it seems like we will not have to participate in this AI during our stay b/c their AI mandatory for non-member / exchangers will be applied in week 43, October 27 of 2012, and on. 

Am I understanding right ? 

btw, it's our first time ever to exchange via II to stay in Royal Resort.  Is there any hidden fees ?
not sure what it means here in our confirmation

"A weekly, per unit deposit for use of on-site services and concessions is collected upon check-in by means of a hold on credit card or cash. Rate in pesos, per unit size, per week: Studio, 3500.00; 1 bedroom, 7000.00; 2 bedroom, 10500.00. The U.S. dollar rate will be at the prevailing rate of exchange during the dates of occupancy. Please note, cash or credit is not accepted for payment at individual concessions or for services. Contact the resort directly ‚ if additional information is required."
It'd be nice to have an option whether to opt AI or not, but it's a burden hefty cost to pay for 5 of us


----------



## BoaterMike

goodjobwm said:


> I just exchanged via II for a week to stay at Royal Sand from 6/16/2012 - 6/23/2012.
> 
> I've read all this new rules, and it seems like we will not have to participate in this AI during our stay b/c their AI mandatory for non-member / exchangers will be applied in week 43, October 27 of 2012, and on.
> 
> Am I understanding right ?



Yes, you don't have to worry.  



goodjobwm said:


> btw, it's our first time ever to exchange via II to stay in Royal Resort.  Is there any hidden fees ?
> not sure what it means here in our confirmation
> 
> "A weekly, per unit deposit for use of on-site services and concessions is collected upon check-in by means of a hold on credit card or cash. Rate in pesos, per unit size, per week: Studio, 3500.00; 1 bedroom, 7000.00; 2 bedroom, 10500.00. The U.S. dollar rate will be at the prevailing rate of exchange during the dates of occupancy. Please note, cash or credit is not accepted for payment at individual concessions or for services. Contact the resort directly ‚ if additional information is required."
> It'd be nice to have an option whether to opt AI or not, but it's a burden hefty cost to pay for 5 of us



You will have to give them a credit card upon check in to cover food, drink or incidentals.  Just like you would at a hotel.   There are no hidden fees that I am aware of.   

Enjoy.

Mike


----------



## Phydeaux

BoaterMike said:


> *There are no hidden fees that I am aware of.   *Enjoy.
> 
> Mike



That's one of managements shortcomings. They _should_ charge a one-time fee of non members. I know, I'm not scoring points with you exchangers, but, it would generate revenues for the Royal Reosrts. And it's a dog eat dog world, wouldn't you agree?

Example:When we exchanged and checked in to the then Royal Reef in Grand Cayman, we were charged a check in fee. I don't recall the amount, but it wasn't cheap. We asked what it was - that we had exchanged and were Royal Resorts members (at the time, the Royal Reef was a Royal Resort). They explained it was a one-time fee that we needed to pay since we weren't members of the Royal Reef itself. So we paid it; it's not like we could jump back on the plane and go back home.


----------



## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> That's one of managements shortcomings. ...  And it's a dog eat dog world, wouldn't you agree?



No, I wouldn't agree that every person or organization operates on that principle. 

If one takes the internal resort tour that the Royals offer at the RH (and at TRC, don't know about others), you will see a summary of their corporate philosophy, principles and values posted in a prominent place to remind and guide employees each time they report to work.  A full listing of these can be seen at http://www.royalresorts.com/history.asp

Quite frankly, their statements in this respect adds to my pride in being a RR owner and leads me to believe that their publicly stated integrity makes it extremely unlikely that they would ever willingly default on any commitment they have made to me, or anyone else with whom they deal.


----------



## Phydeaux

X-ring said:


> No, I wouldn't agree that every person or organization operates on that principle.
> 
> If one takes the internal resort tour that the Royals offer at the RH (and at TRC, don't know about others), you will see a summary of their corporate philosophy, principles and values posted in a prominent place to remind and guide employees each time they report to work.  A full listing of these can be seen at http://www.royalresorts.com/history.asp
> 
> Quite frankly, *their statements in this respect adds to my pride in being a RR owner and leads me to believe that their publicly stated integrity makes it extremely unlikely that they would ever willingly default on any commitment they have made to me, or anyone else with whom they deal*.



Are you suggesting the entire switch to AI is a ploy, or this somehow doesn't apply?


----------



## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> Are you suggesting the entire switch to AI is a ploy, or this somehow doesn't apply?



No, I am simply stating my belief that the Royal Resorts act on ethics and principles other than those reflected in the dog-eat-dog world that many  believe drives most, if not all, human interactions.


----------



## Phydeaux

X-ring said:


> No, I am simply stating my belief that the Royal Resorts act on ethics and principles other than those reflected in the dog-eat-dog world that many  believe drives most, if not all, human interactions.



Really? Then how do you explain their changing policy from the family oriented, non-all inclusive resort to a "manadatory" AI system? I thought long and hard before signing over a check for a very large sum of my hard earned cash because I was buying into what was being sold. I was specifically NOT interested in AI, nor were they selling AI. Their bait & switch without consulting members (something they say they did, and I believe it to be an outright lie) suggests current management is desperate for business to return to its restaraunts and bars, since they drove away most members and guests through their bizarre overly inflated pricing. Sorry, I was once singing praises of the RR, but this mess is NOT what I signed up for. And judging from the replies on this and other forums, I'm certainly not alone. :annoyed:


----------



## pjrose

X-ring said:


> No, I am simply stating my belief that the Royal Resorts act on ethics and principles other than those reflected in the dog-eat-dog world that many  believe drives most, if not all, human interactions.



They did with the original developers....some of that may be changing.


----------



## pjrose

goodjobwm said:


> . . .
> btw, it's our first time ever to exchange via II to stay in Royal Resort.  Is there any hidden fees ?
> not sure what it means here in our confirmation
> 
> "A weekly, per unit deposit for use of on-site services and concessions is collected upon check-in by means of a hold on credit card or cash. Rate in pesos, per unit size, per week: Studio, 3500.00; 1 bedroom, 7000.00; 2 bedroom, 10500.00. The U.S. dollar rate will be at the prevailing rate of exchange during the dates of occupancy. Please note, cash or credit is not accepted for payment at individual concessions or for services. Contact the resort directly ‚ if additional information is required."
> It'd be nice to have an option whether to opt AI or not, but it's a burden hefty cost to pay for 5 of us



No extra fees unless of course you sign up for tours, the Spa, and so forth. 

This is just a hold.  Everything at the resort is charged to your villa, and that hold insures that when you check out you have left a deposit to cover your charges.  If you charge less, you get back the difference.  It covers the resort from the potential problem of people charging a lot on their villa, and then leaving without ever paying the total bill.


----------



## jbuzzy11

Well I called ISCO in Florida and asked them the following. as a non member I booked the Royal Mayan for Aug 2013 through II as an exchange, I booked it on March 28th 2012 and I wanted to know if I was subject to the AI or am I exempt since there is no set date for the RI, RC, RM and royal Cancun to start there AI program. The girl I spoke with said she only knows the same as the letter that was sent out to the members, she didnt think that exchanges in would be forced to do AI since there is no set date as of yet but she didnt sound like she knew much.  So I will hold onto the reservation I made for the Mayan in Aug 2013 and if things change I will contact the exchange company since there is nothing on interval that states AI is manditory. she also said people would know more soon.


----------



## BoaterMike

Phydeaux said:


> That's one of managements shortcomings. They _should_ charge a one-time fee of non members. I know, I'm not scoring points with you exchangers, but, it would generate revenues for the Royal Reosrts. And it's a dog eat dog world, wouldn't you agree?



I agree that there are certainly some opportunities for additional revenue or cost cutting that have been overlooked by RR.   Your posts here and there have suggested more ideas than I had dreamed up.  

One that I had questioned at one point was the villa cleaning.  Why not offer this as an ala carte package?   This could be free or discounted for members if they wanted to go that route.   I  know Marriott does not offer free cleaning.   

I think the jury is still out, so I am not going to assume that the sky is falling...... yet.   

Mike


----------



## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> Really? Then how do you explain their changing policy from the family oriented, non-all inclusive resort to a "manadatory" AI system?



Firstly, the AI is not mandatory for members - *IF* it were to become so and effectively change our membership contract unilaterally, I shall cry foul myself. 

Secondly, there is a 'sacred trust' [my words] between the Royals and me as reflected in my contracts.  No such sacred trust exits between the Royals and exchangers - exchangers are entitled to be treated fairly and ethically but if they don't like a published Royals policy when they undertake an exchange, don't exchange there! 

Thirdly, I wouldn't try to explain why things that aren't mutually exclusive in the first place, are supposedly contradictory. Since you apparently believe that an AI feature at a family-oriented is somehow contradictory, please feel free to explain how an AI option is contradictory to being family-oriented? 



> I was specifically NOT interested in AI, nor were they selling AI. Their bait & switch without consulting members (something they say they did, and I believe it to be an outright lie)



Which section of your membership contract is it that's being abrogated by the proposed optional AI? As for your anonymous accusations of chicanery and lying by the Royals, well  ... 'nuff said! 



> they drove away most members and guests through their bizarre overly inflated pricing



Hmm-m-m, seems to be a goodly number remaining.  May I again invite you to provide some substance and examples of some of 'their bizarre overly inflated pricing'? Your previous claim that a $26 'special' was overpriced and left you cold was not accompanied by any detail regarding what was included (3-course meal featuring a NY strip and a glass of Brunello?) or venue (Los Murales?) so that others might judge the value of your opinions for themselves. It presumably wasn't that bad a value as you went ahead and ordered it for 3 persons instead of ordering something else, or simply walking ... just sayin'.



> I thought long and hard before signing over a check for a very large sum of my hard earned cash because I was buying into what was being sold ... Sorry, I was once singing praises of the RR, but this mess is NOT what I signed up for. And judging from the replies on this and other forums, I'm certainly not alone.



Your postings (recent ones anyway) suggest but never state specifically that you own a unit at the Royal Resorts, or identify which one(s).  While one is free to express one's opinion, regular and gratuitous bashing of one's considered valuable assets in a public forum (including management integrity and outright lying) is surprising and tends to make one wonder, especially when such opinions are based on unsubstantiated opinions. ["The lady doth protest too much, methinks" - Hamlet III-II]

But if you are, it's indeed admirable if a truly altruistic desire to warn others of substantiated double-dealing by RR management is winning out over making it more difficult to sell and perhaps, as you have suggested, even lead you to default on your 'very-large-summed' asset.


----------



## X-ring

pjrose said:


> They did with the original developers....some of that may be changing.



I'm interested in the basis of your opinion.  Earlier I provided to a link that outlined the Royals' values and principles. In your opinion, which specific ones are under threat and how?

Of course corporate values and principles should be reflected in a business model, but they are not necessarily congruent.    

TIA


----------



## geoffb

jbuzzy11 said:


> Well I called ISCO in Florida and asked them the following. as a non member I booked the Royal Mayan for Aug 2013 through II as an exchange, I booked it on March 28th 2012 and I wanted to know if I was subject to the AI or am I exempt since there is no set date for the RI, RC, RM and royal Cancun to start there AI program.


All indications I got while in Cancun last week is that they will be trying this at the Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas for a bit to see how well it is working so I would not expect to see it applied to the other resorts this year and possibly longer.

Especially the Royal Mayan. I would not expect to see it there at all unless the membership trust is renewed.

-G


----------



## johnsontrio

Going back to what an earlier poster wrote, some people want AI.  I have people ask me about Mexico and immediately dismiss the Royals because it isn't AI.  I would guess that most folks here on TUG tend to be on the thrifty side, as evidenced by how most of us got here.  There's no way in the world I would exchange my $200 grocery bill and a couple hundred in pool bar tabs for the likes of an AI bill.  We spend around $400 pp per week and that includes spa, scuba, food and drinks.  With airfare being anywhere from $750 to $1000 this year, and cruise prices being reasonable, more people would opt for a cruise than spend 2K on airfare and the AI plan and not have even paid for lodging yet.

My SIL told us at Christmas that once Florida gets on the AI bandwagon, they will put Mexico out of business.  :hysterical:   I don't think AI is attractive anywhere that people are familiar with the restaurants, have access to a car and aren't afraid to drive.  I think it would be the rare person that would pay top dollar for AI when their favorite chains are right down the road.


----------



## pjrose

X-ring said:


> No, I am simply stating my *belief that the Royal Resorts act on ethics and principles other than those reflected in the dog-eat-dog world* that many  believe drives most, if not all, human interactions.





pjrose said:


> *They did with the original developers....some of that may be changing.*





X-ring said:


> *I'm interested in the basis of your opinion. * Earlier I provided to a link that outlined the Royals' values and principles. In your opinion, which specific ones are under threat and how?
> 
> Of course corporate values and principles should be reflected in a business model, but they are not necessarily congruent.
> 
> TIA



First, most here know that I'm one of the Royals' biggest cheerleaders.  I remain very happy with the Royals. I believe that the Royals do have ethics and principles that are quite different than those of the timeshares that are regularly bashed for the lack thereof.  

However, I'm not crazy about the AI thing; I don't think it was completely thought out, and I can see some potential problems (too much alcohol, different levels of treatment for people depending on their "bracelet", possible loss of exchange value, possible loss of "family" feel.)  Now there could well be some good results, for example filling the restaurants should result in more jobs and, I hope, more tips for the staff. 

I have several bases for my opinion that "some of (the ethics and principles) may be changing." Note that I said "may be" not are.   
One is that only recently am I starting to read posts by less-than-happy Royals owners.  For years, most if not all posts were happy.  
Also, conversations with long-time staff in the last few years have indicated that they (the ones to whom I spoke) feel that newer management cares less about them than the original developers/management. 
In addition, the changes to the Royals' website seem to emphasize renting over the beauty and "feel" of the resorts.  The site's homepage is cold, not warm and fuzzy like it used to be.  
I can't remember where, but just recently I read a post by a potential buyer who said the deals kept changing; this isn't a tactic they've used in the past, when the prices were fixed (other than an owners' discount).

None of the above is huge (except perhaps the feelings of some long-time staff).  Overall, I remain very happy. We have always found the Royals to be ethical and responsive to people's needs and requests.  We certainly feel at home there, compared to anywhere else we have stayed; the other places just don't have that "feel" that's so hard to explain.

I have liked the fact that everyone was treated the same - owners, renters, exchangers (other than the policy a few years ago of requiring a deposit from non-owners).  Though none of the points above is enough to change my love of the Royals, taken together, I do sense that there* may be* changes in the ethics and principles at the Royals.

And in response to your query in post 164 about "how an AI option is contradictory to being family-oriented," my concern is over-indulgence in alcohol by those who want to get "their money's worth."  I don't see this now, and have only seen problems with drunks perhaps three times in 22 years and those were quickly dealt with.  However if the AI includes unlimited or high amounts of alcohol and if it attracts those who like same, then that could change the atmosphere in a manner contrary to a family orientation. 

PS - I have not had time to read the link you provided, hence I cannot yet completely address your questions.


----------



## jbuzzy11

Does anyone find it odd that they would try an AI program and just about the same time send out a letter to the Mayan owners about extending for another 15 years? (This is what I had heard). Talk about bad timing, would you agree to go 15 more years with so many questions about the AI and if its even going to branch out to the Tri Royals? I was told they would have to have about 80% of its members say they would reup to go ahead with extending the Mayan. Just seems like a terrible time to do both of thease things.


----------



## urban5

*Just speculation*



jbuzzy11 said:


> Does anyone find it odd that they would try an AI program and just about the same time send out a letter to the Mayan owners about extending for another 15 years? (This is what I had heard). Talk about bad timing, would you agree to go 15 more years with so many questions about the AI and if its even going to branch out to the Tri Royals? I was told they would have to have about 80% of its members say they would reup to go ahead with extending the Mayan. Just seems like a terrible time to do both of thease things.



The recent letter only said a vote was coming on the termination, no other details were given, hence the poster who stated an extension was either speculating or relating information received from a sale persons.  We just have to wait and see what the vote is going to be in reference to.


----------



## urban5

*Well said +1+1+1*



X-ring said:


> Firstly, the AI is not mandatory for members - *IF* it were to become so and effectively change our membership contract unilaterally, I shall cry foul myself.
> 
> Secondly, there is a 'sacred trust' [my words] between the Royals and me as reflected in my contracts.  No such sacred trust exits between the Royals and exchangers - exchangers are entitled to be treated fairly and ethically but if they don't like a published Royals policy when they undertake an exchange, don't exchange there!
> 
> Thirdly, I wouldn't try to explain why things that aren't mutually exclusive in the first place, are supposedly contradictory. Since you apparently believe that an AI feature at a family-oriented is somehow contradictory, please feel free to explain how an AI option is contradictory to being family-oriented?
> 
> 
> 
> Which section of your membership contract is it that's being abrogated by the proposed optional AI? As for your anonymous accusations of chicanery and lying by the Royals, well  ... 'nuff said!
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm-m-m, seems to be a goodly number remaining.  May I again invite you to provide some substance and examples of some of 'their bizarre overly inflated pricing'? Your previous claim that a $26 'special' was overpriced and left you cold was not accompanied by any detail regarding what was included (3-course meal featuring a NY strip and a glass of Brunello?) or venue (Los Murales?) so that others might judge the value of your opinions for themselves. It presumably wasn't that bad a value as you went ahead and ordered it for 3 persons instead of ordering something else, or simply walking ... just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> Your postings (recent ones anyway) suggest but never state specifically that you own a unit at the Royal Resorts, or identify which one(s).  While one is free to express one's opinion, regular and gratuitous bashing of one's considered valuable assets in a public forum (including management integrity and outright lying) is surprising and tends to make one wonder, especially when such opinions are based on unsubstantiated opinions. ["The lady doth protest too much, methinks" - Hamlet III-II]
> 
> But if you are, it's indeed admirable if a truly altruistic desire to warn others of substantiated double-dealing by RR management is winning out over making it more difficult to sell and perhaps, as you have suggested, even lead you to default on your 'very-large-summed' asset.



X-ring, well stated rebuttal!


----------



## X-ring

pjrose said:


> I have several bases for my opinion that "some of (the ethics and principles) may be changing." Note that I said "may be" not are.
> One is that only recently am I starting to read posts by less-than-happy Royals owners.  For years, most if not all posts were happy.
> Also, conversations with long-time staff in the last few years have indicated that they (the ones to whom I spoke) feel that newer management cares less about them than the original developers/management.
> In addition, the changes to the Royals' website seem to emphasize renting over the beauty and "feel" of the resorts.  The site's homepage is cold, not warm and fuzzy like it used to be.
> I can't remember where, but just recently I read a post by a potential buyer who said the deals kept changing; this isn't a tactic they've used in the past, when the prices were fixed (other than an owners' discount).



Thank you very much for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I must say that I share many of your thoughts, especially with the AI which I don't particularly like out of concern re overindulgence in alcohol. That being said, I have spent several weeks at a resort that was AI - it was funny to see the same regulars each year spending all day and all evening at the bar ... we called them Mutt and Jeff - you get the picture (if you're of age!). Anyway, yep they were regularly under the influence and objects of amusement but never caused a disturbance. I'm pretty sure that my experience may be different from others but frankly I have never seen a disturbance caused by alcohol there. On the other hand, I have seen folks spending all day sitting in the pool all day and drinking at the RM's pool bar. I don't recall them any of them being offensive either.

Unfortunately the world is not like it used to be before 2008 when we were living in a credit-induced bubble. Most of us have had to change certain aspects of our lives based on a drastically changed economic outlook - I am sure that this has, and will continue, to affected the Royals' business model. However, I will await specific examples of clear violations of stated corporate values and principles before suggesting that they may be changing.

As for your comment about the increased negative postings, I take almost all of them at face value as I too have some complaints - most having to do with lack of enforcement of policies (e.g. reserving lounges at the pools, allowing unsupervised kids in the adult jacuzzis at the RH).  But then if you hang out on investment bulletin boards long enough, you get to see many 'owners' who reflect dissatisfaction with almost all aspects of the company - makes one wonder if their true interests are really aligned with your own.  One hates to turn into a cynic but as they say, "If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck ..."


----------



## Phydeaux

X-ring said:


> Firstly, the AI is not mandatory for members - *IF* it were to become so and effectively change our membership contract unilaterally, I shall cry foul myself.



*First, I'm well aware of the fact that the AI is not mandatory for members, at this point. I never suggested it was. *[/QUOTE] Secondly, there is a 'sacred trust' [my words] between the Royals and me as reflected in my contracts.  No such sacred trust exits between the Royals and exchangers - exchangers are entitled to be treated fairly and ethically but if they don't like a published Royals policy when they undertake an exchange, don't exchange there! .[/QUOTE] 

*Sacred trust??? Huh?*[/QUOTE] Thirdly, I wouldn't try to explain why things that aren't mutually exclusive in the first place, are supposedly contradictory. Since you apparently believe that an AI feature at a family-oriented is somehow contradictory, please feel free to explain how an AI option is contradictory to being family-oriented? .[/QUOTE]

*Do I really need to explain the differences between a family oriented resort and AI's?? Really?? OK, how's this: all you can drink alchohol leads to excessive drinking by many adults. FACT. Several weeks ago there was a party of 30 something 'adults' at teh RH whose routine was to get drunk and proceed to see how loud, obnoxious and how much vulgarity could be spewed per eveing. Positioned next door to retirees with grandchalidren, this didn't make for a happy vacation for the family. How many more expamples would you like me to provide? I could fill seveal pages, but frankly don't have the time, nor desire to spell out the obvious for some.

*[/QUOTE] Which section of your membership contract is it that's being abrogated by the proposed optional AI? .[/QUOTE]

*That's simple, there isn't one. My purchases were based on faith and prior satisfactory expereinces with the Royal Resorts. The faith part should be easy for you to grasp, given your reference to "sacred trust". No?

*[/QUOTE] As for your anonymous accusations of chicanery and lying by the Royals, well  ... 'nuff said! .[/QUOTE]

*The Royals management wrote they surveyed members prior to implementing the AI packages. Find me ONE person that was ever contacted by the Royal Resorts and asked their opinion of a AI package. Just ONE. When you find me this one person, I will retract. Until then, based on numerous posts from various RR forums and my own expereinces and commone sense, I maintain this was a LIE.*

[/QUOTE] May I again invite you to provide some substance and examples of some of 'their bizarre overly inflated pricing'? .[/QUOTE]

*Certainly. How does $23.82 for two drinks sound to you? $15.35 for a Tanqueray & tonic?? A piña colada for $8.46. Or, $16.00 for a buffet breakfast?? Or, $28 for a Mexican themed dinner buffet?? If you find these prices reflective of this developing nation, I have some priceless swamp land you may also be interested in. PM me if you're interested. *

[/QUOTE] Your previous claim that a $26 'special' was overpriced and left you cold was not accompanied by any detail regarding what was included (3-course meal featuring a NY strip and a glass of Brunello?) or venue (Los Murales?) so that others might judge the value of your opinions for themselves. It presumably wasn't that bad a value as you went ahead and ordered it for 3 persons instead of ordering something else, or simply walking ... just sayin'.[/QUOTE]

*The venue was Tradewinds at the RC. It was a 'Mexican' themed buffet dinner. No, drinks not included. No, no steak or Maine lobster either. Instead, tacos, rice and other Mexican entrees. And, I never suggested that I proceeded to order for 3 persons, you're reading into my post what isn't there. *

[/QUOTE] Your postings (recent ones anyway) suggest but never state specifically that you own a unit at the Royal Resorts, or identify which one(s).  While one is free to express one's opinion, regular and gratuitous bashing of one's considered valuable assets in a public forum (including management integrity and outright lying) is surprising and tends to make one wonder, especially when such opinions are based on unsubstantiated opinions. ["The lady doth protest too much, methinks" - Hamlet III-II][/QUOTE]

*I have been a member of the Royal Mayan for the past 20 years, and purchased into the Royal Hacienda pre-construction. Why do you think I re-purchased? Because I was ungrateful, unhappy, or disgusted?? Let me spell it out for you: I have been very pleased and thus repurchased at the RH. However, when management decided to change the landscape and founding principle of offering a unique, family oriented vacation expereince that at one time was second to none, without consulting its members, you damn right I'm going to speak up. *

[/QUOTE] But if you are, it's indeed admirable if a truly altruistic desire to warn others of substantiated double-dealing by RR management is winning out over making it more difficult to sell and perhaps, as you have suggested, even lead you to default on your 'very-large-summed' asset.[/QUOTE]

*Trust me, if I had any inclination that the resort would implement an AI policy, I would not have ever invested. And if I were to guess, I think there's a few others in the same category as me. 

Now, tell me a bit about yourself? How long have you been a member? Where? Do you have children or grandchildren? Are you looking forward to evenings spent listenting to, dodging around, and picking up after transcient borrachos?*

(Please pardon any typos - no spell check)


----------



## BoaterMike

jbuzzy11 said:


> Does anyone find it odd that they would try an AI program and just about the same time send out a letter to the Mayan owners about extending for another 15 years? (This is what I had heard). Talk about bad timing, would you agree to go 15 more years with so many questions about the AI and if its even going to branch out to the Tri Royals? I was told they would have to have about 80% of its members say they would reup to go ahead with extending the Mayan. Just seems like a terrible time to do both of thease things.



Also, they had been pushing hard to get Tri-Royals to convert "equity" toward the Grand Residences.  Pushing as well to purchase inventory at RS or RH with the longer right to use.  The beach may be pretty, but the water is really muddy right now.  

ML


----------



## Phydeaux

jbuzzy11 said:


> *Does anyone find it odd that they would try an AI program and just about the same time send out a letter to the Mayan owners about extending for another 15 years? *(.



Yes, me. See my earlier post, copied here:




Phydeaux said:


> Is it just me, or does anyone else find it peculiar that Royal Mayan members were just notified that we will be voting on the outcome of the sale of the Royal Mayan – this within days of being told the Royal Resorts are going AI?
> 
> Hmmmm....
> 
> Could it be that there was a need to ensure the vote was indeed in favor for the sale of the Mayan as opposed to turning it over, aka VCI, only to be burned again? I’ve heard that vote didn’t match members true intentions.  And what about trying to sell even more timeshares in this economy?
> 
> How are sales at the Royal Hacienda? Flat, aren’t they? I understand there still isn't an advisory council there because they haven't achieved enough sales.
> 
> 
> 
> How's that Grand Residence coming along?


----------



## X-ring

Phydeaux said:


> Do I really need to explain the differences between a family oriented resort and AI's?? Really?? OK, how's this: all you can drink alchohol leads to excessive drinking by many adults. FACT. Several weeks ago there was a party of 30 something 'adults' at teh RH whose routine was to get drunk and proceed to see how loud, obnoxious and how much vulgarity could be spewed per eveing. Positioned next door to retirees with grandchalidren, this didn't make for a happy vacation for the family. How many more expamples would you like me to provide? I could fill seveal pages, but frankly don't have the time, nor desire to spell out the obvious for some.



Thank you for that but it raises the obvious question - if that's what's  happening now under a non-AI regime, how will going to AI change the possibility of that happening again?   



> Which section of your membership contract is it that's being abrogated by the proposed optional AI? .  That's simple, there isn't one.



Right.



> My purchases were based on faith and prior satisfactory expereinces with the Royal Resorts. The faith part should be easy for you to grasp, given your reference to "sacred trust". No?



It is easy to grasp even for a simpleton such as myself, yet I don't see a guarantee for my personal version of a *desired experience* in my contract. 



> And, I never suggested that I proceeded to order for 3 persons, you're reading into my post what isn't there. [/B]



"$26 for a dinner 'special' leaves me cold. No thanks. Three people and a tip, that comes to $90"

I misinterpreted your statement, I apologize sincerely.




> Now, tell me a bit about yourself?



We own RR weeks at TRC, RH and RM.


----------



## X-ring

urban5 said:


> We just have to wait and see what the vote is going to be in reference to.



Wait, what ??? .. isn't it more fun debating and venting our spleens on the merits of rumors and what might be?


----------



## Camilo Olea

*Updated Customized Vacation Packages FAQ*

Dear Royal Resorts Members and Guests:

We've listened carefully to your feedback about our new Customized Vacation Packages; as a result, we have updated our FAQ covering all the major concerns we saw in your comments.

Please visit:

http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/

Should you still have any questions or concerns, we remain at your service and will be happy to update this document as needed.

Best regards from your home in paradise.


----------



## amycurl

Very sad to see that this will apply to exchangers...I fell in love with the Royals last May, but unless the AI package is *much more* reasonable priced than others in Mexico, it will not be worth it to exchange any more.

Private rentals will be the way to go, it appears, based on the revised FAQs...


----------



## tonyg

I watch Royal resales and after noticing increasing prices over the last year, I saw one on Ebay (RC) that didn't get a bid (opening bid $2,997-residual over $ 7,500). I'm happy that I bailed out of Royal ownership when I did (before prices dropped).


----------



## kenie

There's a Royal sands over 2k right now with 3 days to go...
It will probably go for 4k or better..


----------



## pjrose

Hmmm...Post 178 presumably from a representative of The Royals is interesting.  Hola!  

Re drunks with or without AI.....some get obnoxious, some not.  The post above about the obnoxious group of drunk adults in the proximity of kids upsets me.  Did you call security?  Did you ask them to tone it down please?  

On the few occasions I've seen obnoxious drunks at The Royals, I've done both, always with good success.

A few years ago there was a group of college-age guys on their second or third floor terrace, happily guzzling beer and loudly and liberally using F* and similar words.  I walked under their terrace, called "Hi" with a big smile, they yelled "Hi" back, and I said, "Hey, could you please cool the language, there're a lot of kids here!" while I waved around the area to indicate the kids.  They apologized and immediately toned it down.  Now that might not always work.....but it's certainly worth a try.  

I just mentioned the proposed/new AI to my 22 y/o DS.  He said "what's that?" and I said "All Inclusive."  His eyes lit up  ( ) and he said "well, they'll sure get a lot of college students!"

So.....if indeed this happens, they'd better plan on a lot more security, and on limits that will be enforced.


----------



## jasm

All you can drink for guests - especially when they have no particular loyalty to or pride of ownership in the resort is going to definitely alter the atmosphere to the detriment of everyone.  It's of no comfort to be told that security will take care of any issues.  The fact that there will be issues in the first place, that other guests and members will have to be disturbed and call security to deal with rowdies is already a change for the worse.  

Why would I expect security, who can't even effectively deal with pool chair hogs,  to efficiently deal with drunk and disorderly guests?


----------



## Phydeaux

jasm said:


> All you can drink for guests - especially when they have no particular loyalty to or pride of ownership in the resort is going to definitely alter the atmosphere to the detriment of everyone.  It's of no comfort to be told that security will take care of any issues.  The fact that there will be issues in the first place, that other guests and members will have to be disturbed and call security to deal with rowdies is already a change for the worse.
> 
> *Why would I expect security, who can't even effectively deal with pool chair hogs,  to efficiently deal with drunk and disorderly guests?*



Very good points, and I agree 100%. Witnessing how many abandon their drink cups and refuse around the resort, expecting someone else to pick up after them sickens me. And this was in years past - now with the implementation of AI...  

It's a very simple fact that some struggle with or get very defensive about, but sorry, it's still a fact: a significant percentage of renters just don't give a damn. They're transients, they know it, and have zero vested interest in the Resort. Many treat it with disrespect, and I just witnessed it again first hand several weeks ago. Now before someone flames me for writing that simple fact, go back and re-read this : _significant percentage_ I didn't write *all*.

Members, if you weren't happy with the steady increases of your MF's, just wait. You & I will be footing the bill to replace sofas; bedding, furniture and other items that will be ruined through misuse. Also simple fact. I did not sign up for this.


----------



## X-ring

jasm said:


> Why would I expect security, who can't even effectively deal with pool chair hogs,  to efficiently deal with drunk and disorderly guests?



I would think that while selfish and inconsiderate, pool chair hogs don't normally present a danger to others or themselves ... drunks sometimes do.


----------



## kochmar1

*deleted title*



pjrose said:


> A good reason to rent from an owner on TUG



Advertising is not permitted in the discussion forums--please use TUG Marketplace for ads.


----------



## kochmar1

*members paying for damages*



Phydeaux said:


> Very good points, and I agree 100%. Witnessing how many abandon their drink cups and refuse around the resort, expecting someone else to pick up after them sickens me. And this was in years past - now with the implementation of AI...
> 
> It's a very simple fact that some struggle with or get very defensive about, but sorry, it's still a fact: a significant percentage of renters just don't give a damn. They're transients, they know it, and have zero vested interest in the Resort. Many treat it with disrespect, and I just witnessed it again first hand several weeks ago. Now before someone flames me for writing that simple fact, go back and re-read this : _significant percentage_ I didn't write *all*.
> 
> Members, if you weren't happy with the steady increases of your MF's, just wait. You & I will be footing the bill to replace sofas; bedding, furniture and
> other items that will be ruined through misuse. Also simple fact. I did not sign up for this.





When people come in from II and RCI they have to leave a credit card deposit for damages! I think they will be getting charged from now on! You have to inspect your unit when you arrive and any damages will be put on your credit cards! Hopefully this will be upheld!!!!!


----------



## jasm

Who gets the additional revenue from this new program??  Does it go to the management or does it go to reducing MF's??


----------



## BoaterMike

jasm said:


> Who gets the additional revenue from this new program??  Does it go to the management or does it go to reducing MF's??



My understanding is that food and beverage is operated independently of villa/resort operations.   Those revenues or expenses do not show up on the financial reports of the resort expenses for operations and maintenance.  

Mike


----------



## pjrose

jasm said:


> Who gets the additional revenue from this new program??  Does it go to the management or does it go to reducing MF's??



Direct costs, food, beverage, staff.....and after that?  Good question.  They said it wouldn't make our MFs go up, so I'd assume it also wouldn't make them go down.


----------



## Phydeaux

pjrose said:


> Direct costs, food, beverage, staff.....and after that?  Good question.  *They said it wouldn't make our MFs go up,* so I'd assume it also wouldn't make them go down.



AI transient borrachos trashing sofas, furniture and other resort goods will cause our MF's to go up. Count on it.


----------



## Karen G

Phydeaux said:


> AI transient borrachos trashing sofas, furniture and other resort goods will cause our MF's to go up. Count on it.


Wouldn't any guests staying in the timeshares be considered "transient." Why would someone paying AI fees be more likely to trash the place than someone who was not paying AI fees?  I don't get the correlation between AI and increased damage to furnishings.


----------



## Tfish

Do you think that unlimited free booze might result in more disturbance, damages, noise etc by the participants?

I don't believe that the atmosphere that we currently enjoy at the Royals will remain with the advent of AI.

Wait and see I guess but I do have my concerns.

Mike


----------



## Ridewithme38

Tfish said:


> Do you think that unlimited free booze might result in more disturbance, damages, noise etc by the participants?
> 
> I don't believe that the atmosphere that we currently enjoy at the Royals will remain with the advent of AI.
> 
> Wait and see I guess but I do have my concerns.
> 
> Mike



To be fair, some people do act out when they are drinking...but even at my young age, i know that ALOT of people act out even when they don't drink...

I still go out to the local bars and my daughters mother is a bartender, so i have some experience with drunks....There are different types of heavy drinkers, i like to think of drinking as something that makes you more of what you already are and strengthens the feelings you are currently having...i'm a very happy drunk i tend to get alot of high fives and dance when i never would or talk way waay too much about nothing...When people are on vacation, they're happy and having a good time, a person who's happy and having a good time isn't going to be destructive...they maybe a little obnoxious, but not dangerous

But what do i know, i finished 2 margaritas with dinner and am now on my 4th beer


----------



## troysers

Woudn't the primary benefit (but not necessarily only benefit) of the introduction of AI to non-members to members be a reduction in maintenance fees from all of the AI revenue, but from FAQ it states 

"24. How will my Annual Maintenance Fees (aka Club Service Fees) be impacted by the All-Inclusive program?
Your annual Club Service Fee will not be affected in any way."

So since the maintenance fee will not be impacted (up or down) who profits from all the AI revenue?


----------



## pjrose

troysers said:


> Woudn't the primary benefit (but not necessarily only benefit) of the introduction of AI to non-members to members be a reduction in maintenance fees from all of the AI revenue, but from FAQ it states
> 
> "24. How will my Annual Maintenance Fees (aka Club Service Fees) be impacted by the All-Inclusive program?
> Your annual Club Service Fee will not be affected in any way."
> 
> So since the maintenance fee will not be impacted (up or down) who profits from all the AI revenue?





jasm said:


> Who gets the additional revenue from this new program??  Does it go to the management or does it go to reducing MF's??





BoaterMike said:


> My understanding is that food and beverage is operated independently of villa/resort operations.   Those revenues or expenses do not show up on the financial reports of the resort expenses for operations and maintenance.
> 
> Mike



Mike is probably right here.  If tours, massages, and so forth are part of various packages, those specific budget lines or subsidiary companies would benefit from the extra revenue.  

Rental revenue from units not directly rented by members would go to management that presumably owns the intervals being rented.  Do they pay the equivalent of the MF on those units?  Might the rental revenue then go to that?

That brings up the questions of exchanged units, which are owned by various members, and units that members put into the Royals' rental program, where in each case the MF has been paid.  IF the difference between mandatory and optional AI boils down to whether individual owners have paid the MF, (rather than whose name is on the reservation), then shouldn't those units be exempt?


----------



## BoaterMike

pjrose said:


> That brings up the questions of exchanged units, which are owned by various members, and units that members put into the Royals' rental program, where in each case the MF has been paid.  IF the difference between mandatory and optional AI boils down to whether individual owners have paid the MF, (rather than whose name is on the reservation), then shouldn't those units be exempt?



PJ, my hunch is that this is not something that they will take in to account.  To me it's all about driving more revenue per unit per week (and more profit).  Hard to do that when food/beverage and other profit center prices are maxed out and the occupancy rate overall is likely to be down.   

In any event, we are in for an interesting ride.  

Mike


----------



## pjrose

BoaterMike said:


> PJ, my hunch is that this is not something that they will take in to account.  To me it's all about driving more revenue per unit per week (and more profit).  Hard to do that when food/beverage and other profit center prices are maxed out and the occupancy rate overall is likely to be down.
> 
> In any event, we are in for an interesting ride.
> 
> Mike



Yes, I agree.


----------



## burg1121

I'm not sure why timeshare owners would want to rent when we have already paid for the week with our maintenance fee. I would think they would just find a new destination. Cabo sounds nice and most places give you the option of AI. I did a check on Royal inventory on II with a Marriott GO bronze week.
Tons of weeks at all Royals. How do you find out when the tri's converrt to AI. I just can't see how this is good for owners. I am really bummed we really enjoyed our week at the Islander. The vibe was great good luck when people start drinking at 10AM.


----------



## BoaterMike

burg1121 said:


> How do you find out when the tri's converrt to AI.


Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas start with week 43 in 2012.  The Tris follow in 2013, but the date has not been specified.  

Mike


----------



## burg1121

Thanks Mike


----------



## Ellis2ca

burg1121 said:


> I just can't see how this is good for owners. I am really bummed we really enjoyed our week at the Islander. The vibe was great good luck when people start drinking at 10AM.



Has anybody ever been to Club Med?  They are "all inclusive"... It includes all the food you can eat, and all the sports (including scuba diving... sailing... wind surfing... tennis lessons... etc.)  But it doesn't include booze.   You want booze, you have to pay for it.

So why does everybody assume that the Royal Resort All Inclusive program will necessarily include "all you can drink" ?

Actually... if they offer a "half all inclusive" package for the restaurants without any alcohol included (I don't ever drink at the bars, I don't drink any alcohol except an occasional wine...) with a reasonable discount for members, it would probably be very good option for me, if alcohol is not included.     

For example 3 breakfasts and 3 lunches and 3 suppers at any of the poolside restaurants or Captain's Cove...  and an option for 1 or 2 nights special events cook-outs by the pools at night, or restaurants such as El Conquistador and Hacienda Sisal... 

I do that anyways... I have at least 3 breakfasts at the Palapa or the Veranda... and I often have a lunch here or there... and a supper here or there... And I also like to have breakfast or lunch or supper in my Villa sometimes, and I also like to go out to restaurants like Puerto Madero or La Habichuela or Casa Rolandi, etc... 

In other words... if they will make their packages that allow us flexibility and it fits in with what I do anyways, I might buy it... 

But I won't have to worry about it because I don't own at ROYAL HACIENDAS or ROYAL SANDS... It is the LAST YEAR for the Royal Mayan, I doubt that they will implement it at the Royal Mayan for one year... 

But if they try to re-sell the Royal Mayan with mandatory All Inclusive, I will definitely not renew.

- Ellis


----------



## burg1121

When I question the value to owners it's not whether the AI program will work for them if they use their week at their resort. Depending on the cost to people who trade in the value of the Royals trade value may become less. If the Royals do it with care everything may work out great. We traded into the Omni in Cancun and their AI program you could buy 3 days or more and the cost was reasonable. We weren't overly impressed but it was not forced on you.


----------



## donnaval

We are just lowly non-member exchangers into the Royals and have enjoyed them over the past few years.  We've given up very nice units to make our exchanges.  However, we were so disappointed with the quality of the food and service on our trip just this past January that we had already decided we would wait a long while before going back.  Reasonable prices?  Not to us!  $15 for a hamburger or vegetable sandwich and soft drink.  $26 for a "special" that included meat and seafood on skewers that was so overcooked they were almost charcoal, a handful of dry rice,  limited selections on salad bar, and  waiters who had no interest in us at all when they realized we weren't ordering numerous rounds of alcohol.  $16+ for breakfast?  $20+ for buffets that made Golden Corral look like gourmet food?  

The prices we could deal with - what we were so shocked by was the reduction in quality of service from the waiters who were only interested in taking care of the tables ordering lots of booze (and jacking up the value of the tip I guess).  We had always felt pampered by the Royal Resorts folks - not this time.

We do enjoy AI from time to time, but you know, we have NEVER done an AI through an exchange because they are always so much more expensive than by booking through Apple Vacations or other consolidators. 

Apple always has great deals that include air fare, and from our town we can always get non-stop charters through Apple but not through legacy carriers.  We could have done a "Dreams" AI during the same week we did the Royal Mayan in January.  The Dreams week would've cost about $1500 per person for everything -airfare, hotel, all meals drinks tips entertainment, taxes etc (although we always tip extra at AIs).  For our Royal Mayan trip, our airfare was almost $500 R/T per person, if we were owners instead of exchangers our MF cost would be almost $900 I think,  so we are already up to $950 per person without counting one penny of purchased food or entertainment costs.  The AI places have some lame entertainment, but at least they have it.  We would probably have saved money by going AI for that trip but 1)Hubby prefers non-AI since he can't have dairy products, and 2)We like the laid-back, quiet family atmosphere we find at the Royals. The atmosphere at the AIs is drastically different, and we've done enough to be sure about it. 

(On a dietary note - since DH has to worry about dairy products, he could order exactly one (1) item from the every day menu - a vegetable sandwich.  Sometimes a limited salad bar was available.  He made a couple of attempts to ask for menu items to be prepared without cheese or cream sauces, but although the waiters would impatiently say yes yes and write things on the order pad, the food invariably came out as if no request had been made.)

If and when we decide to go back to Cancun, the Royals will now have to compete with other AIs instead of being in a class of their own.  Based on our last trip, I'd pick another AI.  But more than likely, we'll just go to Florida lol.  Since I'm not an owner, it doesn't affect me, but maybe it will provide a perspective about how this will affect the demand for the resort from us lowly exchangers.


----------



## Phydeaux

Ellis2ca said:


> Has anybody ever been to Club Med?  They are "all inclusive"... It includes all the food you can eat, and all the sports (including scuba diving... sailing... wind surfing... tennis lessons... etc.)  But it doesn't include booze.   You want booze, you have to pay for it.
> 
> So why does everybody assume that the Royal Resort All Inclusive program will necessarily include "all you can drink" ?
> 
> Actually... if they offer a "half all inclusive" package for the restaurants without any alcohol included (I don't ever drink at the bars, I don't drink any alcohol except an occasional wine...) with a reasonable discount for members, it would probably be very good option for me, if alcohol is not included.
> 
> For example 3 breakfasts and 3 lunches and 3 suppers at any of the poolside restaurants or Captain's Cove...  and an option for 1 or 2 nights special events cook-outs by the pools at night, or restaurants such as El Conquistador and Hacienda Sisal...
> 
> I do that anyways... I have at least 3 breakfasts at the Palapa or the Veranda... and I often have a lunch here or there... and a supper here or there... And I also like to have breakfast or lunch or supper in my Villa sometimes, and I also like to go out to restaurants like Puerto Madero or La Habichuela or Casa Rolandi, etc...
> 
> In other words... if they will make their packages that allow us flexibility and it fits in with what I do anyways, I might buy it...
> 
> But I won't have to worry about it because I don't own at ROYAL HACIENDAS or ROYAL SANDS... It is the LAST YEAR for the Royal Mayan, I doubt that they will implement it at the Royal Mayan for one year...
> 
> But if they try to re-sell the Royal Mayan with mandatory All Inclusive, I will definitely not renew.
> 
> - Ellis



I'll continue doing what I've done for the past 20 years - go grocery shopping and stock up for the week, and utilize the kitchen.


----------



## papeterie

*AI Program at Royal Resorts*

Got e-mail from Royal Resorts News on 3/22.  
Visit www.royalresorts.com/packages 

e-mail says, in part:  All members registered in the membership agreement will have optional access regardless of how they are staying at the resort, e.g. a Royal Resorts member who exchanges or rents at Royal Resorts will have optional access to all packages.
Family and friends staying as guests of a member in their unit(s) will have optional access to all packages. 

Unfortunately, it does not spell out whether (last paragraph) that means only if the family and friends are staying with the member or USING the member's unit (i.e. renting) because it clearly states that ALL OTHERS ARE MANDATORY in the AI program.  The packages referred to are special packages only available to members & guests.

This program starts at RS and RH week 43; others to follow with dates to be advised.  If the intention is to make the program mandatory for anyone who is not a member it will kill both rentals and sales.  Bad, bad idea.



kenie said:


> I was on the RRowners site and came across the "rumour" that the Royals were considering a mandatory All-Inclusive program for renters and exchangers..
> 
> Wouldn't this tend to kill the rental/exchange market?
> The Azul Five has this through II now and everyone agrees that the AI fee kills the urge to exchange in, and with all the all inclusive mega-resorts in the area, the I don't see any draw for renters, unless they simply added a surcharge to the rental/exchange fees.
> 
> I think this would kill the rental and exchange markets..
> 
> Have any of you owners who are more in the loop heard about this??


----------



## BoaterMike

papeterie said:


> Got e-mail from Royal Resorts News on 3/22.
> Visit www.royalresorts.com/packages
> 
> e-mail says, in part:  All members registered in the membership agreement will have optional access regardless of how they are staying at the resort, e.g. a Royal Resorts member who exchanges or rents at Royal Resorts will have optional access to all packages.
> Family and friends staying as guests of a member in their unit(s) will have optional access to all packages.
> 
> Unfortunately, it does not spell out whether (last paragraph) that means only if the family and friends are staying with the member or USING the member's unit (i.e. renting) because it clearly states that ALL OTHERS ARE MANDATORY in the AI program.  The packages referred to are special packages only available to members & guests.



papeterie, if you have not done so already, I would check out the package information that was updated on March 27.  It clarifies a few items, yet there are still a lot of details yet to be released.  
http://www.royalresorts.com/packages

Mike


----------



## pjrose

BoaterMike said:


> papeterie, if you have not done so already, I would check out the package information that was updated on March 27.  It clarifies a few items, yet there are still a lot of details yet to be released.
> http://www.royalresorts.com/packages
> 
> Mike



Number 6 in particular relates to papeterie's comment about those renting a member's unit.


----------



## tonyg

kenie said:


> There's a Royal sands over 2k right now with 3 days to go...
> It will probably go for 4k or better..



$3,025.50 - Item number: 230765697436
Resale values are falling back down since the AI change became known.


----------



## BDR

*Cancun Royal Resorts Imposition of All Inclusive Meal Plans*

A fellow TUG member has just returned from a stay at the Royal Sands Cancun where he was informed of a plan to introduce an all inclusive meal plan of $150 per day per person. Increasing a 1 week rental by $2100!!!!!

It was suggested that this imposition might be a shocker that guests only find out about when they check in. It is also not clear if this meal plan would be imposed on members as well.

This is outrageous if it goes ahead and for my part would mean I would no longer consider renting a Royal Resorts unit. This would be a further crushing blow to any TUG members who need to rent out their units to defray maintenance expenses.

Can anyone in the TUG community throw any light on this development and if horror of horrors this may spread to other resorts?


----------



## Ridewithme38

From what i've read, the All inclusive is optional if you rent from an owner, or you are an owner...

People will save $2,100 by renting through an owner!


----------



## tashamen

See this thread for a long discussion about this issue: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167380


----------



## KarenLK

rather than start an entirely new thread on this issue, do a search and you will find a few lengthy threads already in progress.


----------



## pjrose

KarenLK said:


> rather than start an entirely new thread on this issue, do a search and you will find a few lengthy threads already in progress.



Can the mods merge?


----------



## BoaterMike

*purcase*



tonyg said:


> $3,025.50 - Item number: 230765697436
> Resale values are falling back down since the AI change became known.


Yet, for people that like the RR and are not owners they could buy and obtain an option for AI as opposed  to mandatory AI.   Lets hope that RR Management does not pull a "Marriott" and reserve  certain options for legacy owners and exclude those who purchase on the secondary market.   

Mike


----------



## pjrose

BoaterMike said:


> Yet, for people that like the RR and are not owners they could buy and obtain an option for AI as opposed  to mandatory AI.   Lets hope that RR Management does not pull a "Marriott" and reserve  certain options for legacy owners and exclude those who purchase on the secondary market.
> 
> Mike



Don't give them any ideas they might not yet have thought of.


----------



## ilene13

My husband and I are currently at the Royal Sands.  We had a meeting this afternoon with the director of operations.  At this juncture they do not have a price structure set up for the AI.  So all comments on this thread and on other threads concerning the price are strictly speculation. Mike in response to your comment he did say that if someone came down next year under the AI option and then bought a. Week subsequent trips would be optional AI.


----------



## ilene13

BDR said:


> A fellow TUG member has just returned from a stay at the Royal Sands Cancun where he was informed of a plan to introduce an all inclusive meal plan of $150 per day per person. Increasing a 1 week rental by $2100!!!!!
> 
> It was suggested that this imposition might be a shocker that guests only find out about when they check in. It is also not clear if this meal plan would be imposed on members as well.
> 
> This is outrageous if it goes ahead and for my part would mean I would no longer consider renting a Royal Resorts unit. This would be a further crushing blow to any TUG members who need to rent out their units to defray maintenance expenses.
> 
> Can anyone in the TUG community throw any light on this development and if horror of horrors this may spread to other resorts?



We are currently at the RS.  We just met with the director of operations.  As of 4PM today there is no price structure set up for the AI option.   Also, renters would be told of the mandatory AI when they rent.  If they rent directly from an owner it would be optional.


----------



## Phydeaux

pjrose said:


> Can the mods merge?




Agreed. Please.


----------



## Karen G

pjrose said:


> Can the mods merge?





Phydeaux said:


> Agreed. Please.



The new post has been merged with this lengthy one. In the future, rathr than posting a request for mods to take action, please click on the icon that is a triangle with an exclamation point in it. This will alert all moderators to the problem and action can occur more quickly.


----------



## pjrose

Karen G said:


> The new post has been merged with this lengthy one. In the future, rathr than posting a request for mods to take action, please click on the icon that is a triangle with an exclamation point in it. This will alert all moderators to the problem and action can occur more quickly.



Thank you!


----------



## jasm

Ellis2ca said:


> So why does everybody assume that the Royal Resort All Inclusive program will necessarily include "all you can drink" ?
> 
> 
> There is a question in the Question and Answer section of the email about the new AI program about whether or not this will change the atmosphere of the resort.
> 
> The answer was that security will not allow any unacceptable behaviour, etc.
> 
> I don't think they are talking about overeating.


----------



## Phydeaux

jasm said:


> Ellis2ca said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why does everybody assume that the Royal Resort All Inclusive program will necessarily include "all you can drink" ?
> 
> 
> There is a question in the Question and Answer section of the email about the new AI program about whether or not this will change the atmosphere of the resort.
> 
> The answer was that *security will not allow any unacceptable behaviour, etc.
> *
> I don't think they are talking about overeating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's laughable considering the Resorts cannot even enforce their own chair saving policy, among others.
Click to expand...


----------



## pjrose

On the few occasions I've seen obnoxious drunks Security has been quick to escort them back to their villa or in one case I saw medics come.  But that was just a few occasions.  AI with unlimited (or high limits on) alcohol places that burden on the bartenders/waiters.  

In either case, we have an issue of deference and demeanor - that is, the staff are well trained in providing services for the members and guests, being polite, deferring to them.  They are well aware of the social and financial class differences, and find it difficult (I've talked to some about this) to tell people of a higher social/financial stratum what to or not to do.  There's a line between requesting that people do something and annoying those people such that they complain to management, and possibly lose their job for doing their job.

So.....I'd think enforcing policies against unacceptable behavior will be difficult for staff.


----------



## Ellis2ca

*Attention Royal Resort Developers:*



pjrose said:


> On the few occasions I've seen obnoxious drunks Security has been quick to escort them back to their villa or in one case I saw medics come.  But that was just a few occasions.  AI with unlimited (or high limits on) alcohol places that burden on the bartenders/waiters.



Well, just in case the Developers are READING THESE COMMENTS, I want to UNDERLINE THAT I DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL.  

Read it again: I DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL.  

So if there is going to be an all-inclusive that INCLUDES UNLIMITED ALCOHOL (for example, CHAMPAGNE) I will not buy it, just as I do not buy an "ALL YOU CAN EAT" that includes (for example) LOBSTER... or CAVIAR... 

And I will not buy it because these are items which are very expensive and which I DO NOT EAT or DRINK, so I don't want to PAY WHAT YOU WILL ASK because their COST is calculated into YOUR PRICE.

Is that clear ?!!

So, for me, you had better include an option that does NOT include "Unlimited Alcohol"... 

And by the way, whatever you do, it has to be BETTER than what we have had until now.  

And what we have had until now has been very good... but I keep reading comments that say YOU ARE SPOILING IT.

Look out, or you will very quickly lose all the GOOD WILL that took you 33 years to build up.


----------



## hunkyleebo

We just returned from an exchange into RS.  It sounds like they are trying to differentiate owners from renters and exchangers.  For example, while invited to the welcome party, we were refused wrist bands for the free drinks since we weren't members.

I doubt that we'll go back if it becomes AI.

I think the AI will hurt Royal owners that want to trade through II because their trade value will go down.


----------



## pjrose

hunkyleebo said:


> We just returned from an exchange into RS.  It sounds like they are trying to differentiate owners from renters and exchangers.  *For example, while invited to the welcome party, we were refused wrist bands for the free drinks since we weren't members.*
> 
> I doubt that we'll go back if it becomes AI.
> 
> I think the AI will hurt Royal owners that want to trade through II because their trade value will go down.



That's just not right.  Sorry they're doing that now


----------



## KarenLK

They did that a few years ago at VCI, just for one or two weeks and then dropped it.


----------



## ilene13

They did it last year at the Haciendas and this year at the Sands.  We don't go so we never use the wristbands anyway.


----------



## m61376

What I find kinda surprising is that they'd make these changes at a time where adverse travel publicity has to make many people question whether or not to go to Cancun in the first place. CBS News in NY did a rather scary piece last night on the 11:00 news, reporting on the recent shakedowns of a NYC retired cop and of a group of twenty-somethings. I know the argument that crime happens everywhere, but I have to admit that the news article made me skittish to return to Cancun and, as much as I enjoyed or II Getaway, I would never return if it was mandatory all inclusive.

I especially feel badly for owners who routinely or even occasionally rented, since I think the units will be hard to rent if the all inclusive becomes mandatory for renters even from owners, and I'm guessing that the trade value in II (or whatever exchange company they elect) will suffer. Great resorts- it's a shame.


----------



## BoaterMike

hunkyleebo said:


> We just returned from an exchange into RS.  It sounds like they are trying to differentiate owners from renters and exchangers.  For example, while invited to the welcome party, we were refused wrist bands for the free drinks since we weren't members.



Sorry that you feel slighted.  They have been doing this for several years.  I specifically remember it occurring two years ago.  I was assuming that one reason that they do this is to force contact with your personal concierge soon upon arrival so that they can start attempting to schedule your "tour" or presentation.  I did not even realize that this was a members-only thing.  

While not very positive in the mind of an ex-changer or a rental guest, there are people who think that there should be more benefits to being a "member".   So, what's negative to one person may be a positive to another.  

Mike


----------



## pjrose

I do recall having to show our invitation on entry to the sundeck - not always, but sometimes.  That didn't seem to be a member vs non-member thing, though, probably just to ensure check-in with the concierge as pointed out by Mike.


----------



## KarenLK

At VCI they said they wanted to make eye contact with the people who they were "servicing" during the week...


----------



## sbutalla

Carta said:


> Rumor is true according to 2 reps I talked to on Friday..I'm at royal islander now. I'm a renter..Owners will have an option..everyone else ....mandatory..I can say,as a renter I will not return and I really love it here...I'm not a fan of AI..that being said, I will enjoy the rest of my stay..I'll be here til 3/24.....ps....owners here r not too happy



My understanding is that private rentals (through owners) will NOT be required to go all-inclusive.  Renters through the RR reservation system, Expedia, Orbitz, etc., will have a mandatory all-inclusive program.  It is supposed to roll out at The Sands & Haciendas week 43.  I bet it doesn't last...


----------



## pjrose

sbutalla said:


> My understanding is that private rentals (through owners) will NOT be required to go all-inclusive.  Renters through the RR reservation system, Expedia, Orbitz, etc., will have a mandatory all-inclusive program.  It is supposed to roll out at The Sands & Haciendas week 43.  I bet it doesn't last...



That is correct, rent through an owner (via TUG, omcancun.com, redweek.com) and you will not have to do the AI.

(PS - I just realized who I'm responding to LOL! )


----------



## gcole

I am at the Hacienda's now. I really don't understand what they are doing. There is always a trade available and often get aways. Is it going to help them to have fewer people trade in? AI is a dime a dozen in Cancun. Optional would be fine but the food is not that good here.


----------



## Dave*H

gcole said:


> Is it going to help them to have fewer people trade in? AI is a dime a dozen in Cancun.


Yes, Royal Resorts makes minimal additional money when someone trades in.  If they can require AI, there will be additional AI related profit on every inbound exchange.  Requiring AI is clearly a profit motive driven change.


----------



## jbuzzy11

I just read over on the Royal Resorts Owners page that the AI price will be $95.00 PP for Members and its optional and $150.00 PP for Non Members. Seems a little expensive if you ask me and im talking about the members price!


----------



## suzannesimon

So $4200/week for 4 people?  Give me a break!  I don't suppose any of that would go into the budget to offset maintenance fees, would it?


----------



## wilma

jbuzzy11 said:


> I just read over on the Royal Resorts Owners page that the AI price will be $95.00 PP for Members and its optional and $150.00 PP for Non Members. Seems a little expensive if you ask me and im talking about the members price!



Wow, we won't be trading into the Royal Hacienda again!


----------



## jbuzzy11

suzannesimon said:


> So $4200/week for 4 people?  Give me a break!  I don't suppose any of that would go into the budget to offset maintenance fees, would it?



 I would have to drop all trips and make my family stay at the resort and eat all day to get my moneys worth! I could get them up real early "OK kids, lets go do some eating and after we rest up We are going on a trip back to the resturant to eat some more"


----------



## pjrose

Outrageous.  

New Mantra: Rent From An Owner!


----------



## Ridewithme38

jbuzzy11 said:


> I would have to drop all trips and make my family stay at the resort and eat all day to get my moneys worth! I could get them up real early "OK kids, lets go do some eating and after we rest up We are going on a trip back to the resturant to eat some more"



You joke, but i've always wanted to try that...i KNOW i can get my moneys worth on alcohol, but the food is a challenge i've always wanted to try!


----------



## jbuzzy11

pjrose said:


> Outrageous.
> 
> New Mantra: Rent From An Owner!



 So happy I am now a member of VCI/Royal Cancun!


----------



## sdbrier

At 95.00/day for members, that's over twice as much as we spent this year, and we shopped at The Royal Market, ate at Captain's Cove and Los Murales.

It'll never make sense for the two of us, even with alcohol.


----------



## kenie

sdbrier said:


> At 95.00/day for members, that's over twice as much as we spent this year, and we shopped at The Royal Market, ate at Captain's Cove and Los Murales.
> 
> It'll never make sense for the two of us, even with alcohol.



I can imagine the sales pitch now....

"well sure $150 a day each for you and your family is expensive, but if you spend $30,000 and buy a week, we'll cut the rate to $95 each". :rofl: 

When we were there a couple of weeks ago the wife and I talked about it and what we felt it would be worth. 

Breakfast was $13.
Lunch around $10 - $15.
Buffet supper was $25.
Total of $50 - $55 for 3 meals + snacks or soda/juice during the day.

For somewhere around $70 we might grab a 3 day package if they had it just for convenience, but $95 wouldn't make much sense. 
On a brighter note, we should be able to exchange in easier since we own....


----------



## Ridewithme38

Is there a 'guest fee' at the royals?  This just made an owner 2 owner exchange into a Royal resort $150x7 more valuable!


----------



## kenie

Ridewithme38 said:


> Is there a 'guest fee' at the royals?  This just made an owner 2 owner exchange into a Royal resort $150x7 more valuable!



There is no guest fee.
If someone rents from an owner or an owner exchanges in for themselves or "family" using a guest certificate, there is no mandatory AI fee. 
This should include trading with someone.


----------



## johnsontrio

jbuzzy11 said:


> I just read over on the Royal Resorts Owners page that the AI price will be $95.00 PP for Members and its optional and $150.00 PP for Non Members. Seems a little expensive if you ask me and im talking about the members price!



*Those prices are absurd.*  Not to mention that I have repeatedly asked on my comment card that they change the menu to reflect a more balanced, "less sophisticated" menu that is more affordable and render the restaurant someplace you could eat nightly without the expensive buffets.  I grocery shop spending around $350 for two weeks for 6 people or so.  Our bill at the end of two weeks is usually around $1400 and that includes spa and scuba.  We would not *ever* be interested in those prices for an all inclusive.

With airfare being as high as it has been this year, those AI prices would make cruising from a US port a much more economically attractive option.  They better be careful that they don't price themselves right out of the market.

A meal package of say 2-3 breakfasts, 3-4 lunches and 2-3 dinners, if it were reasonable priced, is a product that some folks might buy.  I don't want any required 7 day AI package that would just encourage us to overeat and/or  overindulge in the alcohol. 

Another interesting variable is how this is going to float with the Mexican Nationals.  Multiple staff people have told me that they come and spend nothing in the bars and restaurants.  Obviously folks like that will never rent if they have to spend those amounts on AI.  If the food and beverage *quality * suffers due to having to lower the standards because it is "all you can consume" for some, those of us willing to buy al a carte are not going to be happy with the product and those sales will drop. 

I am really confused how this is a business model that could possibly work.


----------



## moonlightgraham

We're just back from a week 21 visit to the Islander and the AI prices quoted above are what we heard from the Royals folks too.  They did say the pricing is subject to change but they seemed pretty adament that this was the way they were going. 

I have to say it is a horrible idea for all the reasons already mentioned but it may be one that is being forced by the restaurant and bar managers. I've only been coming to the Royals since 2009 but in five visits the restaurants/bars have been pretty desolate places except for some theme nights that draw decent crowds and at happy hour for the bars. I have to think the food and beverage operation has lately been a big money loser and the managers are pushing this change or perhaps threatening to close shop completely which would definitely hurt the resort experience. 

I defer to those with much more Royals experience than me, but in reading the financials, the food and beverage operation looks to be completely separate from the timeshare operation and given the slack level of business I've observed the last several years it would seem they are pushing this as a way to force more money and business their way.


----------



## BoaterMike

We'll be somewhat testing the "system" for a week 44 visit at the RH after a week at the RC.  Our non-member friend executed the exchange in to RH, so the reservation is in his name.  We will spend the $49 (or whatever) for a guest certificate in my name.  On prior visits they took our word for it, or perhaps did a cursory check of a database.  But, we certainly can't take that for granted this time.  

Mike


----------



## johnsontrio

BoaterMike said:


> We'll be somewhat testing the "system" for a week 44 visit at the RH after a week at the RC.  Our non-member friend executed the exchange in to RH, so the reservation is in his name.  We will spend the $49 (or whatever) for a guest certificate in my name.  On prior visits they took our word for it, or perhaps did a cursory check of a database.  But, we certainly can't take that for granted this time.
> 
> Mike



I would think if the person staying is a member it wouldn't matter how they got there, you are still a member.  I would also spend the $49, way cheaper than their all inclusive.


----------



## BoaterMike

johnsontrio said:


> I would think if the person staying is a member it wouldn't matter how they got there, you are still a member.  I would also spend the $49, way cheaper than their all inclusive.



That's the way I see it also.  Plus there is the matter of transacting the exchange before the AI is fully implemented.    While I don't expect any issues, we'll be sure to obtain the guest certificate just to make sure.  

Mike


----------



## moonlightgraham

Well, that was fast. We returned from our owned week 21 stay at the Islander on Saturday and in the post-vacation glow I put in for an II exchange for Thanksgiving week. Less than 24 hours later I'm filled at the RC, oceanfront no less (I know, I know, no guarantees but still nice if it happens). 

With all the AI talk, I scoured the exchange certificate for any statement regarding AI requirements and found none. Funny though, in the section for Reservation Number "AI" is listed there (no reservation number, just AI). That can't be the only indication of an AI requirement can it? I would think it would have to be clearly spelled out this is an AI resort and AI is required for the reservation and I don't see any of that. I do recall November as the start date in discussions with our concierge last week, but could that be reservations made beginning in November as the program details still seem to be in flux?


----------



## BoaterMike

moonlightgraham said:


> Well, that was fast. We returned from our owned week 21 stay at the Islander on Saturday and in the post-vacation glow I put in for an II exchange for Thanksgiving week. Less than 24 hours later I'm filled at the RC, oceanfront no less (I know, I know, no guarantees but still nice if it happens).
> 
> With all the AI talk, I scoured the exchange certificate for any statement regarding AI requirements and found none. Funny though, in the section for Reservation Number "AI" is listed there (no reservation number, just AI). That can't be the only indication of an AI requirement can it? I would think it would have to be clearly spelled out this is an AI resort and AI is required for the reservation and I don't see any of that. I do recall November as the start date in discussions with our concierge last week, but could that be reservations made beginning in November as the program details still seem to be in flux?



You should be ok.  The RC is not included in the initial wave of AI.   The RS and RH are scheduled for week 42 this year, but the dates are not specified for other Royals as far as I know. 

Mike


----------



## pjrose

Mike is right.  

Also, as an owner/member, you are exempt from AI no matter when/where/how you stay at one of the Royals.

_14. If a Member exchanges through an International Exchange company or does an internal exchange with Interval Servicing Co. (ISCO) or rents will the Member have to purchase the Special All-inclusive package?
No, the Member will have optional access to the Special All-Inclusive package for members.
_


http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/default.asp


----------



## BoaterMike

pjrose said:


> Mike is right.



Well, maybe not.  In retrospect, it's actually week 43?    

Mike


----------



## Paumavista

*Royal Resorts AI Program Cost*

We stayed at the Sands earlier this year and really loved our first visit to Cancun - we plan to visit again (although we haven't made reservations).

We understand it is now an ALL INCLUSIVE resort and there will be a fee for food?
We are curious and would really like to know what the cost is for this?  We would be using an owners week (we don't own a unit nor will be be trading.....not sure if this would affect the cost - is there a different AI cost depending on how you rent your unit?)

We need to be able to factor this cost since we usually eat in & cook. If we rent a unit from an owner would we then pay the AI cost upon arrival? or would owners now collect that fee when they rent the unit?

Thank you,
We look forward to planning our next trip!
Judy


----------



## buceo

When you rent from an owner getting the AI is going to be optional. Though the cost/package is not yet announced, you won't need to buy it unless you want to, whatever it is.

In their words:
16. If a Member loans or rents their units privately will the person they rent to have to purchase the All-Inclusive Package?
No, they do not have to purchase the All-Inclusive package but can do so if they wish.


----------



## maciec

I was very sad to see that this is taking place.  We live the Royals and have traded in twice now.  We love that the Royals weren't AI.  We aren't drinkers and we aren't big eaters.  We only ever eat out for dinner when we are there.  We would never eat and drink $150 worth a day.  With 3 kids that's what was once an affordable vacation for us now is not.  I really hope that this idea bombs so that when we are ready to go back in 2014 that we can stay at a Royal.  In the meantime I will be researching other places to stay.


----------



## pjrose

maciec said:


> I was very sad to see that this is taking place.  We live the Royals and have traded in twice now.  We love that the Royals weren't AI.  We aren't drinkers and we aren't big eaters.  We only ever eat out for dinner when we are there.  We would never eat and drink $150 worth a day.  With 3 kids that's what was once an affordable vacation for us now is not.  I really hope that this idea bombs so that when we are ready to go back in 2014 that we can stay at a Royal.  In the meantime I will be researching other places to stay.



Rent from an owner and you won't have to do AI.


----------



## geoffb

Or trade into one of the four properties that have no A.I.


----------



## maciec

geoffb said:


> Or trade into one of the four properties that have no A.I.



Hoping that by the time that we are reading to go back that the other properties still don't have AI

PJ - if I rent through an owner that costs $$$ something I don't want to have to do


----------



## MuranoJo

geoffb said:


> Or trade into one of the four properties that have no A.I.



Or trade into a completely different property which doesn't have AI.  Avoid the sales presentation and you'll have a great time.


----------



## pjrose

maciec said:


> Hoping that by the time that we are reading to go back that the other properties still don't have AI
> 
> PJ - if I rent through an owner that costs $$$ something I don't want to have to do



I hope so too.  

And yes, renting is more than trading and then what do you do with the banked weeks.  But at least renting from an owner is less than renting from the management


----------



## tikicarver

From the link in a post above:

This program is scheduled to be launched at The Royal Sands and The Royal Haciendas in Week 43, October 27, 2012 with the intention of rolling it out to others in 2013. 

Also said prices and more details will be released on July 2.


----------



## kenie

*The Royals AI program is up....*

http://www.royalreservations.com/em...el&hq_m=1811534&hq_l=5&hq_v=6cc215c143http://

Reservations will be taken as of July 3rd and pricing will be released at thae same time.

If the rumour is true that they are going to charge $160 per day per person, this looks to be an epic fail.
They are touting the dining options, but how are people going to get to Captains Cove or Conquistador?  Cab? :hysterical: 
They do not have the amenities to be a top tier AI resort.

Compare this to the Gran Melia announcement which will come into effect on November 15. A coincidence??   lol

If you are going to pay the kind of dollars that are rumoured, for non-owners, where would you rather be?

http://www.hotelnewsresource.com/ar...cun_Converted_to_Paradisus_Cancun_Resort.html


----------



## blackjack

According to II when making an exchange: 

MANDATORY ALL-INCLUSIVE/MEAL PLAN FEES. Fees are payable to the resort and subject to change without notice. Effective with bookings from JULY 3, 2012 for check-in OCTOBER 27, 2012 and beyond, "REFINE" All-Inclusive Package: Rate per adult, per day USD 105; child 4-17 years, USD 75; child under 4 years, no charge.


----------



## pjrose

blackjack said:


> According to II when making an exchange:
> 
> MANDATORY ALL-INCLUSIVE/MEAL PLAN FEES. Fees are payable to the resort and subject to change without notice. Effective with bookings from JULY 3, 2012 for check-in OCTOBER 27, 2012 and beyond, "REFINE" All-Inclusive Package: Rate per adult, per day USD 105; child 4-17 years, USD 75; child under 4 years, no charge.



Is that 105 or 150?  
Does this show up for all the resorts, ot just RS and RH ?


----------



## blackjack

For me, I only see this for Royal Sands and Royal Hacienda.  I also see 105 and not 150 as has been speculated.


----------



## pjrose

blackjack said:


> For me, I only see this for Royal Sands and Royal Hacienda.  I also see 105 and not 150 as has been speculated.



Anyone who makes an exchange now should print that 105.  Just in case.


----------



## gcole

I got the email today. When I was down last month as an exchanger they said all renters and exchangers would be mandatory. Owners would be discounted and optional. This news made this my last trip. Owners were saying that exchangers shouldn't be allowed to use their resort for free. I did mention that we also pay maint fees. Here is the link:
http://royalreservations.com/emb/al...p?hq_e=el&hq_m=1811544&hq_l=4&hq_v=0017040020


----------



## pjrose

gcole said:


> I got the email today. When I was down last month as an exchanger they said all renters and exchangers would be mandatory. Owners would be discounted and optional. This news made this my last trip. Owners were saying that exchangers shouldn't be allowed to use their resort for free. I did mention that we also pay maint fees. Here is the link:
> http://royalreservations.com/emb/al...p?hq_e=el&hq_m=1811544&hq_l=4&hq_v=0017040020



If I deposit my week I have paid the mf.  It is a member owned week.  Therefore IMNSHO you, as an exchanger, should have all owner/ member benefits.  So we are in agreement, though coming from different directions.  One way or the other, mf fees have been paid, by you and by me.  The royals have never before had two 'classes' of people staying there.  If I exchange into your ts I expect to be treated the same as you, and you should have that expectation too.  Grrrrrrrrr. 

If indeed ISCO has gotten many requests for AI then by all means offer it - as an option, not as mandatory.


----------



## MuranoJo

Great post and I absolutely agree, PJ.
BTW, I noticed the previous poster also said renters would have to pay AI?

I've always wanted to try a Royal and actually got a RM on RCI late one night several years ago.  But I threw it back (and posted I was going to do so on Sightings, where someone grabbed it) because we had the previous week booked on the Pacific side at Westin PV.


----------



## pjrose

muranojo said:


> Great post and I absolutely agree, PJ.
> BTW, I noticed the previous poster also said renters would have to pay AI?
> 
> I've always wanted to try a Royal and actually got a RM on RCI late one night several years ago.  But I threw it back (and posted I was going to do so on Sightings, where someone grabbed it) because we had the previous week booked on the Pacific side at Westin PV.



Thanks. 
Too bad...but maybe you can still exchange into the RM.  
Renters through the royals' mgt, ISCO or royalresorts.com or through a travel agent type of deal, yes.  Renters direct from an owner, no.


----------



## tikicarver

Totally agree with your statement above. They should not have mandatory AI for exchangers. If people think exchangers are coming in an using their resort for free, then they don't know what an exchange is. We all pay a MX fee.
The exchange companies should tell any resort that wants to charge a mandatory AI fee for exchangers, that they are dropping them from the system.
The whole idea of depositing my unit with II is so I can exchange it for a similar unit at another resort. Why would anyone want to trade into a place that they had to pay several $1000 for food that they don't want.

If you want to charge for renters, that is another story.


----------



## dpatchie

*RR AI not for me*

One of the reasons I purchased my second unit with RR after owning one, was that they did not have the AI.  I really don't like resorts that lock you in to their locations, and usually at a very high price.  
My husband and I routinely spend at least two weeks in Cancun at RC, we own one week there, and I usually rent a second to back the first.  
There are a myriad of excellent places to eat in Cancun, and I don't like the idea of being "required" to pay the AI fee and always dine at their restaurants.  
You might say that it does not "require" you to eat all of your meals there, but for the price I pay, I would feel that I was waisting money if I go elsewhere.
Keep RR the way it is, it has been working and working well for 30+ years for the company and the members.  I, for one, am not looking forward to the change.


----------



## BoaterMike

dpatchie said:


> One of the reasons I purchased my second unit with RR after owning one, was that they did not have the AI.  I really don't like resorts that lock you in to their locations, and usually at a very high price.
> My husband and I routinely spend at least two weeks in Cancun at RC, we own one week there, and I usually rent a second to back the first.
> There are a myriad of excellent places to eat in Cancun, and I don't like the idea of being "required" to pay the AI fee and always dine at their restaurants.
> You might say that it does not "require" you to eat all of your meals there, but for the price I pay, I would feel that I was waisting money if I go elsewhere.
> Keep RR the way it is, it has been working and working well for 30+ years for the company and the members.  I, for one, am not looking forward to the change.



At least, as an owner, you aren't required to purchase the AI.   And, they have not confirmed that RC will be going AI.  As far as your own use is concerned you can continue to enjoy your meals off-site just like you have in the past. 

Mike


----------



## hillsk

*Marriotts acquiring Royals in 2013?*



radmoo said:


> Just returned from AMAZING week at RH. I too, heard this rumor.  The way I understood it was that renters will be OBLIGED to do all inclusive but it will be optional for owners.  Makes sense to me, why own if you can rent and not have to worry about maintenance fees, etc?
> 
> I also heard rumor that 2 companies are in the running for taking over Mayan when contract expires next year, one being Marriott.  I am hoping this is true and perhaps we could "trade" or upgrade our Canyon Villa Platinum week for  a week in Mexico instead!!!



We heard a Marriott Destinations Program sales pitch last week.  One of the new things we heard is that Marriott is pretty close to acquiring 7 Royal Resorts in Mexico early next year.  That led to a discussion about The Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas going all-inclusive as of 10/27/12.  The sales rep knew nothing of this as I pressed to find out how Marriott would handle the AI going forward if the acquisition goes thru.  Has anyone else heard anything more about this?


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## suzannesimon

I haven't heard that, but would love to have the Royals in the Marriott program.  I imagine it would be really easy to get rid of the AI.  Just change the policy going forward.


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## maja651

hillsk said:


> We heard a Marriott Destinations Program sales pitch last week.  One of the new things we heard is that Marriott is pretty close to acquiring 7 Royal Resorts in Mexico early next year.  That led to a discussion about The Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas going all-inclusive as of 10/27/12.  The sales rep knew nothing of this as I pressed to find out how Marriott would handle the AI going forward if the acquisition goes thru.  Has anyone else heard anything more about this?



This is interesting news.  I don't understand 7 though, unless they are counting Grand Residence?

Royal Cancun (VCI)
Royal Mayan
Royal Carribean
Royal Islander
Royal Sands
Royal Haciendas

I am wondering if Marriott is considering this as a part of buying the Royal Mayan?  Maybe they are making an all or nothing offer to the Royals?

We enjoy trading into the Marriott timeshares, but I am not sure what their maintenance fees are or how they manage things such as promises, etc.   I am surprised the Royals would consider selling out all of the Royals.

Michelle


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## ilene13

hillsk said:


> We heard a Marriott Destinations Program sales pitch last week.  One of the new things we heard is that Marriott is pretty close to acquiring 7 Royal Resorts in Mexico early next year.  That led to a discussion about The Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas going all-inclusive as of 10/27/12.  The sales rep knew nothing of this as I pressed to find out how Marriott would handle the AI going forward if the acquisition goes thru.  Has anyone else heard anything more about this?



We own 4 platinum Marriott weeks, 2 weeks at the Royal Sands and 1 week at the Royal Haciendas.  As far as I know there has been no talk of this merger.  Also there are only 6 RR in Mexico and the Royal Mayan's RTU is up in 2013 and there is talk of that property being sold.
   The Marriott timeshares we own are wonderful but they do not offer the amenities---daily maid service that the RR do.  Also, our maintenance fees in Aruba and Hilton Head are much higher than our RR fees.  I hope there is no truth to the rumor.

Also I would like to know where you went for that DC sales pitch.


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## hillsk

ilene13 said:


> We own 4 platinum Marriott weeks, 2 weeks at the Royal Sands and 1 week at the Royal Haciendas.  As far as I know there has been no talk of this merger.  Also there are only 6 RR in Mexico and the Royal Mayan's RTU is up in 2013 and there is talk of that property being sold.
> The Marriott timeshares we own are wonderful but they do not offer the amenities---daily maid service that the RR do.  Also, our maintenance fees in Aruba and Hilton Head are much higher than our RR fees.  I hope there is no truth to the rumor.
> 
> Also I would like to know where you went for that DC sales pitch.



We were at Marriott's Oceana Palms (Singer Island, FL).  We had mentioned how much we like Royal Haciendas and exchange into it.  The rep had been there and the Sands many times and was anxious to share the great news that Marriott was close to this "acquisition."  We have a daughter who owns at the Haciendas, so I was very curious and asked lots of questions.  It sounded like if this goes through, Royal owners' ownership will not be affected in any way but that the Royals will now be available to Marriott owners (like the additions of the Autograph Collection and Edition and AC Hotels).  The rep said "all 7 Royals" but maybe he meant 6 or was including the Residences.  Anyway, that's when I asked about the all-inclusive that starts next month at The Sands and Haciendas, and he knew nothing of that at all.  In fact, he was shocked.  I suggested he do some fact-finding if he's going to talk about Royals in his presentation.  We did not join Destinations nor did we buy Trust points; so I am not sure how this possible acquisition will affect us going forward.  Maybe we can use Reward points to stay or continue II exchanges . . . although the AI fees is a huge turnoff.


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## alfie

There actually are 7 Royals if you count the El Castellano Condo/Hotel in Merida.


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## maja651

alfie said:


> There actually are 7 Royals if you count the El Castellano Condo/Hotel in Merida.



That is actually not a part of the Royals anymore.  The Royals help manage it, but it is not a RR.  I asked about this last year after I stayed at El Castellano, because it does not meet RR standards.  My sales person from the Royals is the person who told me it is no longer a RR.


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## jschmidt

If the Marriott rumor is true, it could get very complicated!   

Here are some of the things I’m thinking:  The current situation is that the Royal Resorts will not profit from the sale of the Royal Mayan.  So are the developers going to try and sell the entire operation and try to make another huge profit? :ignore:  But wait a minute, each resort has an expiration date, then it will be sold and the proceeds split between members and developers.  Will a new owner who just bought a resort sell it and re-buy it when the expiration date arrives?  If so, will a resort be re-bought for the real current market value?  Should the members get the Marriott purchase money instead of the developers?  :whoopie: 

I’m sure there are many more scenarios.  If this actually happens, it may be time to get a lawyer!


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## heathpack

jschmidt said:


> If the Marriott rumor is true, it could get very complicated!
> 
> Here are some of the things I’m thinking:  The current situation is that the Royal Resorts will not profit from the sale of the Royal Mayan.  So are the developers going to try and sell the entire operation and try to make another huge profit? :ignore:  But wait a minute, each resort has an expiration date, then it will be sold and the proceeds split between members and developers.  Will a new owner who just bought a resort sell it and re-buy it when the expiration date arrives?  If so, will a resort be re-bought for the real current market value?  Should the members get the Marriott purchase money instead of the developers?  :whoopie:
> 
> I’m sure there are many more scenarios.  If this actually happens, it may be time to get a lawyer!



I wonder if there is a grain a truth in this if perhaps it is that Marriott might be looking to buy the Royal Mayan when its term is over.  I could see them buying it, renovating and adding a Cancun property to their line up.  Not that I actually know anything about it0 I own neither Marriott nor a Royal...

H


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## Gussie

It could be as simple as making excess inventory available to Marriott owners...


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## maciec

Does anyone know when they are making AI madatory at the Tri's or if they are?  I would really like to squeeze one last trip in beofre they go that way.


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## suzannesimon

According to the Mexico Forum, it starts Week 43.


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## ilene13

suzannesimon said:


> According to the Mexico Forum, it starts Week 43.



Week 43 is only for the Royal Sands and the Royal Haciendas.  There has not been any confirmation that the Triroyals are going AI.


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## maciec

ilene13 said:


> Week 43 is only for the Royal Sands and the Royal Haciendas.  There has not been any confirmation that the Triroyals are going AI.



Well I will certainly keep my fingers crossed they don't!


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## maciec

I have a question!

We decided to go ahead and rent from an owner I found here on TUG yay! for November of 2013 at the Sands.  If we decide to fl down on Friday as opposed to Saturday, can the owner also book us a 1 night room stay without having to pay AI fees?  How do we get around the AI for that one night?


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## pjrose

maciec said:


> I have a question!
> 
> We decided to go ahead and rent from an owner I found here on TUG yay! for November of 2013 at the Sands.  If we decide to fl down on Friday as opposed to Saturday, can the owner also book us a 1 night room stay without having to pay AI fees?  How do we get around the AI for that one night?



The owner can't rent you a night unless s/he also owns the week before and is willing to split that week up.  S/he might be able to get a night through ISCO and then have a guest certificate issued in your name....that would avoid AI.....but note that it's highly unlikely you'd be in the same villa. 

You can check TUG or OMCancun.com or Redweek.com or RoyalWeek.com to see if any owners are advertising just the one night.  My guess is that a year ahead of time, you're unlikely to find anyone who is willing to split up their week(s).  

You could also look at Travelocity, Expedia, etc and rent a night at a hotel.  We've done that at the Omni and it even included a very good breakfast buffet for all four of us.  

In any case, you might be able to get a head start on your Saturday check-in at The Royal Sands.  If they know you're arriving early they can put your villa on an earlier cleaning schedule.


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## maciec

I didn't have any luck in January with an owner willing to give me that one night so I am doubtful I will be able to find it this year.  I really could care less if we are in the same villa and have to move.  It's only1 night and it wasn't hard to do.  I haven't even looked to see what 1 night would cost us through RR website or any others for that matter.  Hopefully we are able to get good times with our FF miles and not have to fly in on Friday.

Thanks


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## momeason

maja651 said:


> That is actually not a part of the Royals anymore.  The Royals help manage it, but it is not a RR.  I asked about this last year after I stayed at El Castellano, because it does not meet RR standards.  My sales person from the Royals is the person who told me it is no longer a RR.



On the way back to the Royal Sands after going to RH, the salesman mentioned Club Internationale as owned by Royal Resorts.


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## pjrose

The post to which you responded was about El Castellano, a hotel (not timeshare) in Merida. 

Club International or Vacation Club International (aka VCI) in Cancun was the first Royal Resort, and when its 30 year trust expired it was renewed and renamed The Royal Cancun (oft confused with a similarly named property developed by a different group).  There are still weeks available for sale. 

It's quite different than the other Royals, more like a village of low buildings, gorgeous landscaping, very shallow sea, very quiet.


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## momeason

tikicarver69 said:


> Totally agree with your statement above. They should not have mandatory AI for exchangers. If people think exchangers are coming in an using their resort for free, then they don't know what an exchange is. We all pay a MX fee.
> The exchange companies should tell any resort that wants to charge a mandatory AI fee for exchangers, that they are dropping them from the system.
> The whole idea of depositing my unit with II is so I can exchange it for a similar unit at another resort. Why would anyone want to trade into a place that they had to pay several $1000 for food that they don't want.
> 
> If you want to charge for renters, that is another story.



The sales presentation at the RH said AI would attract a higher income clientele. The owners (imho RR management) do not like for people to buy cheap getaways and then use their pools,towels, etc when they are paying over $900 in MFs for their week. (This makes the owners investment look unnecessary as it is with most timeshares.) The salesman said RR did not renew their contract with RCI because RCI wanted RR to treat owners and exchangers the same and RR did not want to do this.
The AI was presented as $105 pp per day. Not as high as I expected, but I do not spend $105 per day on drinks and food. I spend less than $200 pp on food most weeks on vacation. I love to travel. If I took 1-2 weeks vacation a year, I might blow a wad. I would rather be careful with money and travel 12 weeks a year.


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## ilene13

momeason said:


> The sales presentation at the RH said AI would attract a higher income clientele. The owners (imho RR management) do not like for people to buy cheap getaways and then use their pools,towels, etc when they are paying over $900 in MFs for their week. (This makes the owners investment look unnecessary as it is with most timeshares.) The salesman said RR did not renew their contract with RCI because RCI wanted RR to treat owners and exchangers the same and RR did not want to do this.
> The AI was presented as $105 pp per day. Not as high as I expected, but I do not spend $105 per day on drinks and food. I spend less than $200 pp on food most weeks on vacation. I love to travel. If I took 1-2 weeks vacation a year, I might blow a wad. I would rather be careful with money and travel 12 weeks a year.



The only RR that was with RCI is the Royal Mayan.  The others trade through II and the Mayan trades through both.


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## KarenLK

I think VCI still has some trades through RCI. El Castellano WAS and maybe still is a timeshare, at least in part...Edited to add that it is still in the II catalog.  AND VCI is till listed in the RCI catalog.


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## rhinomike

So if I rent a Villa directly from an owner here on TUG.....  I wont have to worry about the All Inclusive?  They wont give me any hassle when I check in?  I am going in February.....


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## BoaterMike

rhinomike said:


> So if I rent a Villa directly from an owner here on TUG.....  I wont have to worry about the All Inclusive?  They wont give me any hassle when I check in?  I am going in February.....



Correct.   Also, it's only applicable to the Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas at this point in time.  

Just be sure to print all documents including the owner loan form from the Royal Resorts member.  

Mike


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## rhinomike

BoaterMike said:


> Correct.   Also, it's only applicable to the Royal Sands and Royal Haciendas at this point in time.
> 
> Just be sure to print all documents including the owner loan form from the Royal Resorts member.
> 
> Mike



Yes I am staying at the Royal Sands.  I found a rental on here today and sending her a check.  

I am not sure what the owner loan form is....  I am guessing I get that from her (the owner)?  Thanks again.


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## BoaterMike

rhinomike said:


> I am not sure what the owner loan form is....  I am guessing I get that from her (the owner)?  Thanks again.



Yes, the Royal Resorts owner will take care of that.  

Have a great trip. 

Mike


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## rhinomike

BoaterMike said:


> Yes, the Royal Resorts owner will take care of that.
> 
> Have a great trip.
> 
> Mike



Thanks again.  I really apreciate it.


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## pjrose

Mike's right, but just to clarify....the owner sends your info and permission for you to occupy the unit to the Royal Resorts, and the Royals put the unit in your name and send you your confirmation via the Owner Loan paperwork. 

Though you are NOT obligated to take AI (if Sands or Haciendas...it doesn't yet exist at the other Royals), I think it'd be a good idea to print the section of the RoyalResort.com website that confirms that fact, and bring it with you, in the unlikely event there is any confusion at the front desk.  

"*All guests staying in a members unit with or without the member being present, in other words staying as an Owner Loan, also have optional access to the All-Inclusive package* except for the case of International Exchange Guest Certificates, please see rule above in POLICIES FOR MEMBERS AND THEIR GUESTS PURCHASING THE REFINE ALL-INCLUSIVE PACKAGE"

http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/default.asp
halfway down the page, under How the Refine All Inclusive Package Program Works


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## rhinomike

pjrose said:


> Mike's right, but just to clarify....the owner sends your info and permission for you to occupy the unit to the Royal Resorts, and the Royals put the unit in your name and send you your confirmation via the Owner Loan paperwork.
> 
> Though you are NOT obligated to take AI (if Sands or Haciendas...it doesn't yet exist at the other Royals), I think it'd be a good idea to print the section of the RoyalResort.com website that confirms that fact, and bring it with you, in the unlikely event there is any confusion at the front desk.
> 
> "*All guests staying in a members unit with or without the member being present, in other words staying as an Owner Loan, also have optional access to the All-Inclusive package* except for the case of International Exchange Guest Certificates, please see rule above in POLICIES FOR MEMBERS AND THEIR GUESTS PURCHASING THE REFINE ALL-INCLUSIVE PACKAGE"
> 
> http://www.royalresorts.com/packages/default.asp
> halfway down the page, under How the Refine All Inclusive Package Program Works



Thank you....  Great minds think alike.. LOL.  I printed it last night and stuck it in with my pasports in my safe...  That is real good advice.


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## BoaterMike

*Am I going crazy?*

Several days ago I recall seeing that the exchanger AI rate was $10 higher pp per day than the member rate.   Today I see that the member and exchanger rate are the same at $105 per day.  Was I dreaming or otherwise impaired?

Mike


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## pjrose

BoaterMike said:


> Several days ago I recall seeing that the exchanger AI rate was $10 higher pp per day than the member rate.   Today I see that the member and exchanger rate are the same at $105 per day.  Was I dreaming or otherwise impaired?
> 
> Mike



Well if you were then I guess I am too.....that's what the site shows now.  They still refer to discounted rates for members, so my bet is that it's a typo.


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## quezsmith

We were at the RM 2 weeks ago and spoke to our sales rep quite a few times about the AI.  He told us that the AI would also be required for non-members starting in 2013 for the RM, RC and RI.  We were not the only ones with a bunch of concerns.  There was another couple that was concerned that it would be harder to book El Conquistador for dinner since the AI could book it every night. Although he said that could happen he said that there would be many more options to choose from.  Strange!  He also confirmed that if an owner trades through II and they are an owner (we sometimes get a bonus week from II for our deposits) that they will not have to pay the AI.

Oh yeah, and on a side note, one of our favorite bartenders was fired while we were there.  He was a few days short of being there for 25 years.  Very disappointing.


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## BoaterMike

pjrose said:


> Well if you were then I guess I am too.....that's what the site shows now.  They still refer to discounted rates for members, so my bet is that it's a typo.



The $10 pp per day differential for member vs exchanger is now back on the website.   Our group was discussing giving 4 days of AI a shot, but will not since there could be too much $ involved with premium charges.


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## sstug

quezsmith said:


> Oh yeah, and on a side note, one of our favorite bartenders was fired while we were there.  He was a few days short of being there for 25 years.  Very disappointing.



Which one? that's very sad


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## pjrose

quezsmith said:


> ..
> 
> Oh yeah, and on a side note, one of our favorite bartenders was fired while we were there.  He was a few days short of being there for 25 years.  Very disappointing.





sstug said:


> Which one? that's very sad



That's appalling.  Fired for what, do you know?  Do they get retirement or pension payments after 25 years, but not before?  If so, this sounds really dirty.


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## quezsmith

pjrose said:


> That's appalling.  Fired for what, do you know?  Do they get retirement or pension payments after 25 years, but not before?  If so, this sounds really dirty.



I am not sure why he got fired but all of the other bartenders were very skeptical.  They said they couldn't think of a reason why..... except that they would have owed him a bunch of money in a few days.  Very sad


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## quezsmith

sstug said:


> Which one? that's very sad



Marco :annoyed:


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## pjrose

quezsmith said:


> I am not sure why he got fired but all of the other bartenders were very skeptical.  They said they couldn't think of a reason why..... except that they would have owed him a bunch of money in a few days.  Very sad





quezsmith said:


> Marco :annoyed:



Maybe he can get some help from the union.


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