# HGVC Beef #1 - HHonors



## izzykool (Apr 16, 2012)

I'd like to know if I am in the minority regarding my feelings towards HGVC and HHonors. 

Let me preface by saying that I am enjoying my HGVC vacation ownership, and I am glad I purchased. And after comparing it to some other programs and hearing the limitations that other TS owners (Non HGVC) are faced with I feel like I made one of the better choices to be made. 

That being said, I am disappointed in the manner in which HGVC works with HHonors. 

1. The value for conversion to HHonors from club points is ridiculously disproportionate in my opinion.  The value of 7500 club points should be much more than the equivalent of 175,000 Hotel Points. I can stay a week in Hawaii at an HGVC in a 1 bedroom unit (equivalent of a suite) for less club points needed to convert to HH so than I can stay at a Cat 6/7 hotel for a week.  Where I get lost at here is, if I am an owner that has invested in the company to purchase a vacation ownership, it would seem to me that the perks would be better for hotel stays than it is. 

For example,  I considered going to San Juan PR and was interested in staying at the Waldorf Las Casitas. To get a 1 BR Casita would cost me 191,000 HH pts. PER NIGHT!!!  Meaning I would need to have 1,337,000 HHonors pts. to stay in a one bedroom casita with an ocean view. Thus I would have to convert my 7500 pts. 178 times to get enough HH pts. to stay a week at this property.  HOWEVER, I can have an ocean front 1 bedroom in Hawaii for FAR LESS.  I could however stay in a smaller room with a garden view for around 200k HH pts.  This doesn't seem right to me. 

I realize its a hotel, but I don't understand why it is so out of whack in terms of club pts. vs. HH pts. 

2. If I convert my club pts. to HH (which I don't think is good value) and I stay at a Cat 6 Embassy Suites for example, it might cost me 120k of those 175k pts. allotted just for a three night stay. Not good value here considering that you are a HGVC owner. I can see if this for perhaps non owner HH members. 

4. When I purchased there were no Cat 7 hotels...then HH changed and upped a bunch of hotels to Cat 7.  Understandable, but I felt I should have been grandfathered in under what I was sold. Thus I should still be able to stay at a Cat 6 (now 7) hotel for 175k HH pts. 

5. If you ever try to voice a concern regarding this with HGVC they will quickly say, "Thats an HH decision, and we have no control over that."  True and understandable.  HOWEVER, thats not how you pitch HH in the sales presentation.

Like I said in the preface, I'm not a disgruntled owner, I'm finding how to make my ownership work to my advantage despite the few shortcomings, but those are somethings I wonder if others felt the same about.

I'm curious to know your thoughts.


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## Talent312 (Apr 16, 2012)

Hotel access is but one factor for buying nto a hotel TS system.
It is not the only factor. Another one is consistently high quality resorts.

_But since we're talking HHonors:_
Yes, it discourages owners use of the hotels, and sure, it'd be nice if it weren't such a poor use of points. But its not entirely unexpected. When a TS owner converts to HHonors, HGVC makes the equivilent space available to the hotel system, but the hotels system likely has a lower demand for HGVC space, and so, may actually be getting the raw end of the deal.

Meanwhile, you can augment your HH account with their Am-Ex and CitiBank affinity cards, which significantly boosts your HH-point balances.


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## Blues (Apr 16, 2012)

You just have to know, when you buy into HGVC, that the HHonors conversion is a minor benefit.  I agree with some (most) on this board that it is usually a poor value for your points.  Heck, in the case of the OP, it is an outrageously poor value.  Yet it can occasionally be advantageous.  You just have to pick your spots.

For example, I'm going to Edinburgh during the Edinburgh Festival.  Everything books up super early, and the hotels all jack up their rates.  Yet I got a room at the Caledonian, right across from the castle.  This room retails (during the Festival) for over $600/night.  I got it on a VIP award for 136000 points for 4 nights.  That's about $2500 in hotel value for the points value of a 2BR in gold season.  That was worth it.

I keep about one year's worth of HGVC points converted into HHonors points, just for the occasions that I need a room that would otherwise be super expensive.  For example, when I reserved the above (late last year), I then converted some 2012 HGVC points to HHonors, so I would again have points for the next time this situation arises.  Of course I'm not going to use them for a Hampton Inn in Nebraska.  But for trips to Europe, NYC, etc, where rooms are expensive and I want to stay mid-city, they're there.  I think that, judiciously used, they're a small added benefit to my HGVC ownership.  YMMV.

-Bob


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## Remy (Apr 16, 2012)

If you game the HHonors system those points can have more value. For instance, use the AXON or VIP awards described here, saving tens of thousands of points for multi-night stays. Also, use them where the cash price is highest, making your redemption value higher at hotels that one might not normally consider due to price.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilt...reward-options-axon-glon-everything-else.html

I like to use the "Hampton Inn in Tulsa" as my example of a ridiculous place to burn 35,000 points per night. However, if used properly, one can stay in an $800 per night Hilton for the same number of points (unless they just moved the category for your target hotel http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilt...select-hotels-effective-april-30-2012-a.html).

I don't disagree that HH points could have a higher value than 1/3 of a cent, which would cause your conversion from HGVC to make more sense, but that's on the hotel side, not necessarily HGVC.


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## pandaurae (Apr 16, 2012)

We signed up for the AMEX Hilton card, having had my AMEX Delta card for over 12 years and been very happy with the service.  While we are new HGVC owners, we are looking forward to using the AMEX HHonors perk for 4-night stays for pretty darned cheap:

_With your Hilton HHonorsTM Card from American Express, you can redeem for less. Receive 4 HHonors reward nights at Category 5 or 6 properties within the Hilton Worldwide portfolio worldwide at a special rate exclusively for Cardmembers.

Call 1-800-920-5649 to redeem a four night stay: 

Category 5 hotels — 125,000 HHonors bonus points (normally 140,000). Mention promo code AXON5.
Category 6 hotels — 145,000 HHonors bonus points (normally 160,000). Mention promo code AXON6.
_​In doing my research before buying resale, I discovered many AMEX Hilton card-holders enjoying this benefit.  With our 7000 annual points, this perk opens up a lot of opportunity for us.  YMMV


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## izzykool (Apr 16, 2012)

Great points listed above!  I would have to agree with much of what was said above. 

Blues, You are so right on about having to pick your spots.  This really worked well for me when I went to the Presidential Inauguration.  I was able to book at the Hampton Inn a couple of blocks from the Mall....now the HAMPTON (which was a little more upscale than most Hamptons) was going for almost $600 per night.  I booked there for four nights on a reward stay and was able to walk to the inauguration....so you are so right...its all about picking how to make it work to your advantage. 

And I do have the HH AMEX and yes, it does make up for some shortcomings, as it allows you to accumulate points fast.

Remy, thanks for the AXON tip. I'm going to look into that more. 

But again the thing that I still have a hard time understanding is the example I used about going to the Waldorf and charging 191k pts. per night for a casita with an ocean view.  Or spending 175k pts. for a standard room, but to upgrade the pts cost is ridiculous.  I'd just like to see HGVC owners get a few more perks here without having to give up so much in club pt. value.


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## Remy (Apr 16, 2012)

izzykool said:


> Great points listed above!  I would have to agree with much of what was said above.
> 
> Blues, You are so right on about having to pick your spots.  This really worked well for me when I went to the Presidential Inauguration.  I was able to book at the Hampton Inn a couple of blocks from the Mall....now the HAMPTON (which was a little more upscale than most Hamptons) was going for almost $600 per night.  I booked there for four nights on a reward stay and was able to walk to the inauguration....so you are so right...its all about picking how to make it work to your advantage.
> 
> ...



The suite point amounts are a new-ish devaluation. Your best bet is getting status with Hilton to enjoy the benefit of free upgrades.


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## alwysonvac (Apr 16, 2012)

See this old thread for a little history on the declining HHonors value - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105184



izzykool said:


> 5. If you ever try to voice a concern regarding this with HGVC they will quickly say, *'Thats an HH decision, and we have no control over that."  *



*Yes, but HGVC has control over the conversion rate.* 

HGVC should adjust the conversion rate to ensure that 7,000 Club Points obtains the equivalent of the old Going Global VIP Reward (6 nights in the highest category) regardless of what HHonors does. HGVC could simply restrict the 6 night hotel booking to reservations using ClubPoints and/or Bonus Points via the HGVC Club Desk (not combined with HHonor points). 

I'm actually surprised Elite members are not up in arms over the declining hotel value. If I had bought several weeks at developer prices, I won't be a happy camper.  Luckily, I bought all of my HGVC weeks via resale so I can't really complain.


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## izzykool (Apr 16, 2012)

alwysonvac said:


> See this old thread for a little history on the declining HHonors value - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105184
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent point!


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## timeos2 (Apr 16, 2012)

If you understand how RCI Points work & that will work for you then this is a very good, not great (FREE would be great!) deal.  You could do far worse.  If you like it go for it.  You'll love it I'll bet.  RCI Points are very easy to use productively and for good value at low annual fees like this.


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## izzykool (Apr 18, 2012)

Prime example of how HH is illogical to me...

This is a quote on pts for the Embassy Suites in Myrtle Beach:

2 ROOM SUITE-1 KING BED OCEANVIEW-NONSMOKING -  $288

or 40,000 HH pts. per night....

ok, thats not bad....

HOWEVER

just below this quote is:
2 RM DELUXE SUITE-1 KING BED OCEANFRNT-NOSMOK - $388

OR 119,385 HH pts. 

Now Im sure although the two rooms appear the same, there is an obvious upgrade of some sort.  But what I cannot understand is why a room that is $100 in price higher than the $288 is nearly 3x as high in HH pts. 

If room A was $288 and room B was lets say $570 per night and the difference was 40k pts to 80k pts. I could understand that.  But how in the world is this room B worth 3x more than room A in HH pts. but less than 50% in cash value?

I see this often in the HH system.


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## Remy (Apr 18, 2012)

izzykool said:


> Prime example of how HH is illogical to me...
> 
> This is a quote on pts for the Embassy Suites in Myrtle Beach:
> 
> ...



It keeps the upgrade rooms available to people who have status in the HH program through frequent, paid travel.


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## izzykool (Apr 18, 2012)

Remy said:


> It keeps the upgrade rooms available to people who have status in the HH program through frequent, paid travel.



Understandable, but don't you think if we as owners are purchasing that should give us the same or better perks, for we are buying real estate from the company over the time span of 10-15 years?  Or is my perspective off here?


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## Talent312 (Apr 19, 2012)

izzykool said:


> ... Don't you think if we as owners are purchasing that should give us the same or better perks, for we are buying real estate from the company over the time span of 10-15 years?  Or is my perspective off here?



IMHO, you're mixing apples and oranges. HHonors is a perk of the hotel division which is directed primarily to hotel guests. The hotel-division likely suffers access by HGVC reluctantly, certainly not with any intent to promote hotel use by HGVC members.


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## izzykool (Apr 19, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> IMHO, you're mixing apples and oranges. HHonors is a perk of the hotel division which is directed primarily to hotel guests. The hotel-division likely suffers access by HGVC reluctantly, certainly not with any intent to promote hotel use by HGVC members.



You are probably right, but part of my beef is I didn't feel like it was presented that way in the sales pitch.  Don't get me wrong, I can live with it...I'm not disgruntled so much where I just want to whine and complain...I was just wondering if others shared my perspective. I'm enjoying the HGVC experience, and it seems to be one of the best if not the best program on the market.


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## Remy (Apr 19, 2012)

Talent312 said:


> IMHO, you're mixing apples and oranges. HHonors is a perk of the hotel division which is directed primarily to hotel guests. The hotel-division likely suffers access by HGVC reluctantly, certainly not with any intent to promote hotel use by HGVC members.



Agreed. 

In my experience, HGVC values your points at $0.10 per point when trading with their partner companies (cruises, airlines, RVs etc). Therefore, 7000 points is valued at $700 according to HGVC. If you were to purchase HH points from Hilton they would cost $0.01 per point. So, in their mind, that $700 in value would buy you 70,000 HH points. Instead, they are giving you 2.5 times that on a conversion. There's the perk.

The discrepancy is that your HGVC points probably "cost" you more in the $0.25 to $0.35 cent range resale and some insane figure retail (depending on how you calculate such things). And, to make it worse, HH points are really only worth 1/3 to 1/2 a cent each on a good day.


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## izzykool (Apr 19, 2012)

Remy said:


> Agreed.
> 
> In my experience, HGVC values your points at $0.10 per point when trading with their partner companies (cruises, airlines, RVs etc). Therefore, 7000 points is valued at $700 according to HGVC. If you were to purchase HH points from Hilton they would cost $0.01 per point. So, in their mind, that $700 in value would buy you 70,000 HH points. Instead, they are giving you 2.5 times that on a conversion. There's the perk.
> 
> The discrepancy is that your HGVC points probably "cost" you more in the $0.25 to $0.35 cent range resale and some insane figure retail (depending on how you calculate such things). And, to make it worse, HH points are really only worth 1/3 to 1/2 a cent each on a good day.



Good observation Remy.  I wonder if the HH Brass would at least listen to some of the members and consider adding a little more value to the points, especially those that purchase vacation ownership. And, if HGVC would consider changing their conversion value rate, because for me I look at it as dollar to dollar value. If 7000 pts. cost me lets say $4500, then I would like to get $4500 in value for my hotel stays as an owner. Or at least close to that. 

I mentioned on a previous post that I would like to stay at the Las Casitas in San Juan, and a one bedroom Casita goes for about roughly $500 a night. If I do 6 nights here it would cost me about $3k or so in cash value.  

Yet, if I convert all 7k of my HGVC to HH it would give me only 175k pts. I can't even stay at the Las Casitas one night because the pt. value for the same room is 191k per night. To me that is absurd. 

I can exchange all of my HGVC pts. worth lets say $4500 cash value, convert them to HH and STILL not have enough pt value to stay in a room that is worth $500 cash value. 

I'd like to see Hilton and HGVC come together and sweeten this for the owners. I'd don't see how (besides them being greedy) it would hurt them economically to do this for owners. 

Just my .02


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## Blues (Apr 19, 2012)

izzykool said:


> You are probably right, but part of my beef is I didn't feel like it was presented that way in the sales pitch.  Don't get me wrong, I can live with it...I'm not disgruntled so much where I just want to whine and complain...I was just wondering if others shared my perspective. I'm enjoying the HGVC experience, and it seems to be one of the best if not the best program on the market.



Heh, heh, were the salesman's lips moving?  :hysterical: 

I agree with you.  In our last sales pitch, the HGVC salesman appeared to be primarily pitching HHonors, not HGVC at all.  He boasted about how many HGVC points he personally owned, and that he converted them all to HHonors.  He even logged into his HHonors account and showed us his balance!  That was his retirement travel plan.

As I said, I consider HHonors conversion to be a minor benefit to HGVC ownership.  One that I've occasionally used, but not the primary focus.  But I agree with you, Izzykool, that this benefit is way oversold at sales presentations.  But as I said, his lips were moving.

-Bob


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## izzykool (Apr 19, 2012)

Blues said:


> Heh, heh, were the salesman's lips moving?  :hysterical:
> 
> I agree with you.  In our last sales pitch, the HGVC salesman appeared to be primarily pitching HHonors, not HGVC at all.  He boasted about how many HGVC points he personally owned, and that he converted them all to HHonors.  He even logged into his HHonors account and showed us his balance!  That was his retirement travel plan.
> 
> ...



Hey Blues, I'm looking forward to going to my next "_update_" meeting or presentation, or whatever they call it now. Because being an owner and REALLY getting into learning the system, I am very familiar with the pros and cons, so I look forward to _telling them about themselves_ so to speak, and see how the salesman responds.  If they say anything related to making HH this over exaggerated perk I will be sure to give them my own little presentation.


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## Remy (Apr 19, 2012)

Blues said:


> Heh, heh, were the salesman's lips moving?  :hysterical:
> 
> I agree with you.  In our last sales pitch, the HGVC salesman appeared to be primarily pitching HHonors, not HGVC at all.  He boasted about how many HGVC points he personally owned, and that he converted them all to HHonors.  He even logged into his HHonors account and showed us his balance!  That was his retirement travel plan.
> 
> ...



I can't imagine hoarding points in any program for the purposes of using them in retirement. There isn't a point program in the history of point programs that I've ever seen INCREASE the value of their points. On the other hand, I can't think of a single points program that hasn't devalued their points at least once in the last 3 years. HHonors points through HGVC ownership seems a doubly bad idea when combined with hoarding. If the sales guy truly had this plan it shows a serious lack of understanding of loyalty programs (the one he's selling I might add). The best redemption is always in the here-and-now. Redemption value can only get worse.


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## amycurl (Apr 19, 2012)

The thing about the points at MB reminded me of this....

We got a last-minute (booked July 3rd) July 4th night at the Myrtle Beach Embassy suites that includes a lazy river, kid's water play area, etc. We got it for 70,000 points, I think (this was about three years ago.) We called the hotel just to see if anything else was available before booking---according to them, they were completely full. So imagine our surprise when we show up and get a corner room on the top floor, with a wrap-around balcony and a shower that includes a glass wall that looked out directly ocean front. It might be one of the best rooms we've ever had, and this booking made us HH fans for life, I must say.


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## Remy (Apr 19, 2012)

izzykool said:


> Good observation Remy.  I wonder if the HH Brass would at least listen to some of the members and consider adding a little more value to the points, especially those that purchase vacation ownership. And, if HGVC would consider changing their conversion value rate, because for me I look at it as dollar to dollar value. If 7000 pts. cost me lets say $4500, then I would like to get $4500 in value for my hotel stays as an owner. Or at least close to that.
> 
> I mentioned on a previous post that I would like to stay at the Las Casitas in San Juan, and a one bedroom Casita goes for about roughly $500 a night. If I do 6 nights here it would cost me about $3k or so in cash value.
> 
> ...



I'm a shareholder in Blackstone, so I'm all for their greed. It does hurt them economically to give you a room in a high-demand high-price location in trade for a midweek stay in a timeshare in Orlando (or Vegas or wherever). Your valuation at $4,500 for your week may be high. What something cost often has little to do with it's value. Start thinking in terms of hundreds rather than thousands.


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## MaryH (Apr 20, 2012)

I think the issue is now HHonors has those anytime awards which charges outrageous amounts of points.  it used to be that max cost was 40K for a category 6 about 5-6 years ago when i was HH diamond.  Now popular places like NYC are limiting their regular awards nights and have more anytime award nights at high points costs.


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## Talent312 (Apr 20, 2012)

izzykool said:


> I look forward to _telling them about themselves_ so to speak, and see how the salesman responds.  If they say anything related to making HH this over exaggerated perk I will be sure to give them my own little presentation.



While you're at it, mention their crappy 'Revolution' reservation system and how they should'a upgraded 'Classic' instead... _'Classic' at least loaded Open Season availability on one page, including affiliates._

Remember, though, that sales-creeps are the low-man on the totem pole and their meeting a disgruntled owner counts for zip. Meanwhile, you'll have managed to waste a significant portion of your vacation time... Something you won't catch me doing, no matter what the come-on.


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## Bxian (Apr 25, 2012)

Having the HHonors AMEX is the way to go.  The AXOn (4 nights for 145,000) points are a good value.  If you spend $20,00 or more per year on that card, you get Hilton Honors Gold status, which will usually get you free breakfast, free wifi, free gym use, etc.  The cost of these things particularly for 2 or more people) can add up.


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## Remy (Apr 25, 2012)

Bxian said:


> Having the HHonors AMEX is the way to go.  The AXOn (4 nights for 145,000) points are a good value.  If you spend $20,00 or more per year on that card, you get Hilton Honors Gold status, which will usually get you free breakfast, free wifi, free gym use, etc.  The cost of these things particularly for 2 or more people) can add up.



36,500 per night can be a good value, but it's always wise to check the cash price. Redeeming for the Conrad Chicago at 36,500 for a $199 room still seems like a poor use of points even under AXON. 

Also, if you're staying at Hiltons enough to make out like a bandit on their wifi and at some locations breakfast, you're also likely staying there enough times to get Gold status without spending $20k on a low-redemption value credit card. I'd rather have United miles or Chase Sapphire Preferred points with that kind of spending.


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## PigsDad (Apr 25, 2012)

Remy said:


> Also, if you're staying at Hiltons enough to make out like a bandit on their wifi and at some locations breakfast, you're also likely staying there enough times to get Gold status without spending $20k on a *low-redemption value credit card*. I'd rather have United miles or Chase Sapphire Preferred points with that kind of spending.


 Have to disagree with you here.  I have found that I get a much more value out of the HHonors points I receive via my Amex vs. the miles I got w/ my United Chase card.

A quick example:  I used HHonors points for a hotel stay in Venice that was worth over $2300 (based on the best rate from Travelocity, etc., not rack rate).  Those points were earned with approx. $35,000 in purchases on the Amex (I average almost 4 pts/$).  With my Chase card, the number of points I would have earned on $35K of purchases wouldn't even get me a ticket to Hawaii.  In coach.

Another bonus:  I receive Diamond status w/ HHonors due strictly to yearly CC use.  That is a very noteworthy perk.

YMMV, but to call the HHonors Amex a "low-redemption value credit card" is _way _off base.

Kurt


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## Remy (Apr 25, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> Have to disagree with you here.  I have found that I get a much more value out of the HHonors points I receive via my Amex vs. the miles I got w/ my United Chase card.
> 
> A quick example:  I used HHonors points for a hotel stay in Venice that was worth over $2300 (based on the best rate from Travelocity, etc., not rack rate).  Those points were earned with approx. $35,000 in purchases on the Amex (I average almost 4 pts/$).  With my Chase card, the number of points I would have earned on $35K of purchases wouldn't even get me a ticket to Hawaii.  In coach.
> 
> ...



$35,000 in spending on Chase Sapphire Preferred would get me to and from Hawaii in First Class on United. In fact, it is. In November. Over Thanksgiving week. Once in Hawaii I could burn 145,000 (35,000 x 4 doesn't quite get you there) HH points on 4 nights, but instead I'm just paying the $800 for those nights before going over to the Lagoon Tower. The fact is that when you go to redeem an HH point, it isn't getting you much value unless you're in Europe. And even then they just bumped a bunch of properties to Category 7. I get the United Card for the free bags, but Chase Sapphire Preferred is a better card for spending if you're a frequent traveler.


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## PigsDad (Apr 25, 2012)

Remy said:


> $35,000 in spending on Chase Sapphire Preferred would get me to and from Hawaii in First Class on United.


From what I see, the Sapphire Preferred card gets you 1 mile per $, and 2 miles per $ in certain categories.

A "saver" (if you're lucky enough to find one) 1st class Hawaii round-trip ticket is 80K miles.  

How does $35K in spending == 80K miles?  Am I missing something here?  Just curious.

Kurt


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## Remy (Apr 25, 2012)

PigsDad said:


> From what I see, the Sapphire Preferred card gets you 1 mile per $, and 2 miles per $ in certain categories.
> 
> A "saver" (if you're lucky enough to find one) 1st class Hawaii round-trip ticket is 80K miles.
> 
> ...



Tricks, all tricks. The card gives annual bonuses and if you travel and eat out as most frequent travelers do, then the double-points are the ones you earn. I only use it for double categories which is all travel (rental cars, cabs, airlines, cruises, etc.) and dining. There are some great blogs out there where you can learn to game the system. Few, if any advise Hilton for card spending. I use the HH card for gas if I'm in need of points for a redemption, but frankly I'd rather stay in a Hyatt and earn points toward properties I wouldn't normally visit. Hyatt offers 3 points per dollar and only requires 22,000 points for their highest redemption properties. It also is a 1:1 transfer partner with Chase, as is Southwest.


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## PigsDad (Apr 25, 2012)

Remy said:


> Tricks, all tricks. The card gives annual bonuses and if you travel and eat out as most frequent travelers do, then the double-points are the ones you earn. I only use it for double categories which is all travel (rental cars, cabs, airlines, cruises, etc.) and dining. There are some great blogs out there where you can learn to game the system. Few, if any advise Hilton for card spending. I use the HH card for gas if I'm in need of points for a redemption, but frankly I'd rather stay in a Hyatt and earn points toward properties I wouldn't normally visit. Hyatt offers 3 points per dollar and only requires 22,000 points for their highest redemption properties. It also is a 1:1 transfer partner with Chase, as is Southwest.


Well, it looks like you are able to game the system quite nicely.  Unfortunately, since I don't travel for a job (thank God!) I certainly would not earn anywhere close to the 2 points/$ as you do -- not enough of my charges would be in those categories.  And I certainly don't run enough charges through in a year to get to bonus levels on multiple cards, so I must pick one primary.

I am perfectly happy w/ the value I have received w/ the HHonors Amex, and with the Diamond status, that alone has saved me large $$ when staying in more expensive places (breakfasts, wireless, spa access, etc. can add a lot -- all free w/ Diamond).  We tend to travel to some nice places occasionally, and HHonors redemptions works out well for us.  For the less expensive stays, we pay cash and enjoy the free upgrades, etc. of Diamond status (while earning 9 or more points/$ for the hotel stays).  

For me, it is certainly not a "low-redemption value credit card".  

Kurt


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## zora (Apr 26, 2012)

Pigs dad, sent you a PM.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 26, 2012)

*Different Thought on why the big difference!*



Remy said:


> It keeps the upgrade rooms available to people who have status in the HH program through frequent, paid travel.



I have a different thought on why the big difference between the low point room and the upgrades.  Hilton wants to say that there are no black out dates.  There aren't any black out dates.  You can book any Hotel any day of the year if there is availability.  
However, if there are 100 rooms in a Hotel and only 60 of them are the low point variety but the other 40 are the higher point variety and you want to book that Hotel using points and the 60 rooms are already booked, you must book the higher point variety to book the Hotel.  You probably won't pay the higher points if they are very high.  In other words, the other 40 rooms will probably be reserved for paying guests.  As a result:  Black out dates after the 60 rooms are booked.


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## Tamaradarann (Apr 26, 2012)

*Why the difference in HH Points*



izzykool said:


> Prime example of how HH is illogical to me...
> 
> This is a quote on pts for the Embassy Suites in Myrtle Beach:
> 
> ...



Hilton doesn't have blackout dates in their policies.  However, once the lower point rooms are all booked if you want to use your points you will need to book a higher point room.  You probably won't use 3 times as many points for a room so the room, in fact, is reserved for paying customers.  It is Defacto Blackout dates when there is high booking for particular dates.


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