# Wyndham Club Access versus Club Wyndham Plu



## smuggsfan (Jul 11, 2011)

I recently visited Smugglers' Notch, a resort in Vermont that is a new affiliate of Club Wyndham.  We absolutely loved the resort and Vermont, in general, and attended a Vacation Ownership presentation.  We received the usual sales pitch, prompting me, a complete novice to the whole timeshare concept, to start researching on the internet and Ebay.  It seems that the more I look into this, the more confused I get.  Should I buy into a deeded property (Club Wyndham Plus) or the Club Access (with no deeded property).  I really have not seen much commentary at all on the the Club Access option.  And, it seems that every Ebay listing has subtle differences with regard to at how many resorts does one get ARP, etc.  

What is the real deal with the Wyndham Club Access?


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 11, 2011)

smuggsfan said:


> What is the real deal with the Wyndham Club Access?



It is a contracted VACATION CLUB, where if you miss a payment or two of the monthly MFs/loan, they just write you a letter CANCELLING your membership. 

It is reality new. Wyndham is buying the deeds for the vacation club as they sell people this type of ownership. New means not as many vacation opportunities as ownership is not need as deep as the Club Wyndham Plus timeshare ownership - deed to a specific location.


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## learnalot (Jul 11, 2011)

smuggsfan said:


> I recently visited Smugglers' Notch, a resort in Vermont that is a new affiliate of Club Wyndham.  We absolutely loved the resort and Vermont, in general, and attended a Vacation Ownership presentation.  We received the usual sales pitch, prompting me, a complete novice to the whole timeshare concept, to start researching on the internet and Ebay.  It seems that the more I look into this, the more confused I get.  Should I buy into a deeded property (Club Wyndham Plus) or the Club Access (with no deeded property).  I really have not seen much commentary at all on the the Club Access option.  And, it seems that every Ebay listing has subtle differences with regard to at how many resorts does one get ARP, etc.
> 
> What is the real deal with the Wyndham Club Access?



Hi SmuggsFan and welcome to TUG.  .  Since this is so new to you, I would suggest you spend some time reading here.  There has actually been quite a bit of discussion here in the wyndham forum about club wyndham access.  You can search within any forum on keywords.  I would try "access" and also "CWA".  If you can't find anything, let me know and I will try and find you the thread links.  I am on my phone right now so I don't have great conditions to be able to find them for you at the moment.


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## ronparise (Jul 11, 2011)

Wyndham sees Club Wyndham Access as one of three parts that make up Club Wyndham Plus (page 305 of the current directory the other two being Club Wyndham Select and Club Wyndham Presidential Reserve. You can probably read a few pages there to answer your question, but here is my take on it anywhay

With Club Wyndham Select we have  deeded ownerships;  weeks converted to symbolic points or undivided interest (udi) deeds with associated symbolic points..In either case our deeds are deposited into a trust administered by Wyndhan. 

With Club Wyndham Access  we dont have our names on any deeds, I suppose Wyndham does, but there are deeds and they are deposited into another trust also administered by Wyndham. 

There are two ways to look at the differences between the two "clubs". one as I indicated above is in how they are structured: deeded vs not deeded. The other way to look at the difference is to describe how they are used. 

As near as I can tell in the standard reservation window and in the express reservation period (ie 10 months right up to your check in date) there is no difference. You  can use points from either "Club" to reserve a stay at any of the resorts in the Wyndham system

The difference comes in the Advanced Reservation Priority (ARP) Window and it has to do with the concept of "Home Resort" With Club Select you have one home resort, Look to your deed to see what it is. And you can make advanced reservations only at your home resort. With Club Access all the resorts with deeds deposited into the CWA Trust are your Home Resorts, and you can ARP at any of them....

There is a catch however ".....ARP availability is limited by the amount of inventory in CWA at each CWA resort"  (pg 312 of the directory) And nobody will tell me exactly what that number is.  

So it seems to me that if ARP at any of the CWA resorts is not important to you...there really is no difference in the use of your points whether they be from one club or the other...If ARP is important (as it is to me)  than CWA deserves a hard look, but its impossible to evaluate if Wyndham wont tell me how many units from my resort of choice are deposited into CWA. I spoke to someone in owner relations the other day and he said they are keeping the inventory from any one resort in CWA no higher than 25%..but he wouldnt or couldnt give me specific numbers. It is possible that for my resort that there may only be one reservation available for the week I want...and that would piss me off. So I keep looking but I havent bought

Another reason to consider CWA in my opinion has to do with  special assessments. If you have a deeded ownership and your resort imposes a special assessment. 100% of the share allocated to your ownership is billed to you. If you own CWA points you have a blended "ownership" so if one resort imposes a special assessment the impact wont be felt quite as much.. Maintenance fees are also blended. Although you can buy cheaper maintenance fees, the fee charged by CWA is reasonable in my opinion

And by the way Linda; what you see as a problem I see as a plus...If I cant or wont pay Id rather just give it up, than go through a foreclosure


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## rrlongwell (Jul 12, 2011)

You are assuming they want the Club Access points back at all.  As is in the Right to First Refusal, it is their choise.  My guess is that for the forseeable future, the will not cancel the contracts.  They would probably prefer bad paper to no paper at all until Club Wyndham Access is as large as they want it to be.  The 25 percent ownership cap could very well be true.  If it is, than my guess is that plus what is owned by the Club Wyndham Plus program and other sister companies of Wyndham would give them control or consoladate their control of all resorts within their system.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 12, 2011)

ronparise said:


> And by the way Linda; what you see as a problem I see as a plus...If I cant or wont pay Id rather just give it up, than go through a foreclosure



Ron,
Today's world has people moving all the time. Bank accounts get closed. Phone numbers change. 

Wyndham historically is ruthless if your MFs are deducted out of an account monthly and something happens to cause an interuption. Wyndham just cancels ALL YOUR RESERVATIONS without notice. Zap, gone. When you go to straighten it out, you have late fees, etc. But you NEVER get your prior reservations restored.

That was the context I was thinking. And mostly likely, the Club Wyndham Access loan that you signed for the initial purchase would simply NOT go away - loan papers would be thru an unaffiliated company (perhaps that VISA card?).


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## rrlongwell (Jul 12, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> Ron,
> Today's world has people moving all the time. Bank accounts get closed. Phone numbers change.
> 
> Wyndham historically is ruthless if your MFs are deducted out of an account monthly and something happens to cause an interuption. Wyndham just cancels ALL YOUR RESERVATIONS without notice. Zap, gone. When you go to straighten it out, you have late fees, etc. But you NEVER get your prior reservations restored.
> ...



I think you are right.  The loan does not go away.  Club Wyndham Access then gets the rights to use the points for other members and Wyndham still can persue their back fees.


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## ronparise (Jul 12, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> I think you are right.  The loan does not go away.  Club Wyndham Access then gets the rights to use the points for other members and Wyndham still can persue their back fees.



First of all, no loan...and I dont doubt that wyndham will sic the collections dogs on you...but I do think there is some difference between a failure to pay timeshare maintenance fees and a foreclosure


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## timeos2 (Jul 12, 2011)

ronparise said:


> First of all, no loan...and I dont doubt that wyndham will sic the collections dogs on you...but I do think there is some difference between a failure to pay timeshare maintenance fees and a foreclosure



Yes there certainly is. With a foreclosure there are state and federal laws that set the rules and process and it is usually a costly court process that has multiple protections for owners. A failure to pay on a Rtv type club means they can take back per an agreement you already signed when you purchased. Virtually no protections and low to no cost to the club. You wonder why they prefer those?


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## ronparise (Jul 13, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> Yes there certainly is. With a foreclosure there are state and federal laws that set the rules and process and it is usually a costly court process that has multiple protections for owners. A failure to pay on a Rtv type club means gheg can take back per an agreement you already signed when you purchased. Virtually no protections and low to no cost to the club. You wonder why they prefer those?



So thats why Wyndham likes, it. But I like it too.  

Read this line from the Wyndham directory Page 332

"Members my terminate their membership in the program at any time by giving written notice of termination to the trustee; and upon any termination, the member's use rights in the timeshare interest and all rights incident to it shall automatically be returned to the terminated Member"

I know this refers to the VOA and not your agreement with CWA, but without a membership in the VOA, what rights do they have to return to you? It seems to me... nothing.  ie CWA is a timeshare agreement that I can end whenever I want to...even better than the RTU's with a date certain end of life


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## bnoble (Jul 13, 2011)

My guess is that each specific ownership type has governing documents that spell out what "voluntary termination" means.  I know the converted fixed week contract does.  I suspect UDI and CWA contracts do too.  If that's true, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the relevant CWA contract does not say: "You get to walk away."

Remember, the directory is (presumably) truth, but it is not the whole truth.


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## lprstn (Jul 17, 2011)

The no-deed is similar to Marriott's new plan.

It works for some people but I just get ticked every time they change and it seems to be for the better for them and screwing the owners.


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## e.bram (May 28, 2018)

Does a converted fixed week converted to Club Wyndham Select(Plus) points have the right to occupy the converted fixed week(week and unit) in the resort where the conversion took place?


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## spackler (May 28, 2018)

e.bram said:


> Does a converted fixed week converted to Club Wyndham Select(Plus) points have the right to occupy the converted fixed week(week and unit) in the resort where the conversion took place?



Technically, yes, but front desk folks don't always abide by that.


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## e.bram (May 28, 2018)

If your reservation calls for a week and unit , how can the front desk change it? Isn't that a legal issue.
(Maybe a tip($) would help?)


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## Crafty71 (May 29, 2018)

What I have learned is that if you convert your deeded, fixed week to Wyndham points, that unit (and only that unit) is what is available for you to rent during ARP (13-10 months in advance). But it would also be available for anyone else within CWA to reserve during ARP as well...so if it is a high demand unit or time period, you'd better grab it at 13 months rather than wait...

Cheers!


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## paxsarah (May 30, 2018)

Crafty71 said:


> What I have learned is that if you convert your deeded, fixed week to Wyndham points, that unit (and only that unit) is what is available for you to rent during ARP (13-10 months in advance). But it would also be available for anyone else within WCA to reserve during ARP as well...so if it is a high demand unit or time period, you'd better grab it at 13 months rather than wait...
> 
> Cheers!



As I understand it, a converted fixed week is only available for the owner to book during ARP. By definition, it wouldn’t be available to anyone in CWA during ARP. It would be fair game to all at 10 months.


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## Crafty71 (May 31, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> As I understand it, a converted fixed week is only available for the owner to book during ARP. By definition, it wouldn’t be available to anyone in CWA during ARP. It would be fair game to all at 10 months.


That could be...I was surprised to learn that I could only do ARP into my fixed, deeded weeks, as opposed to the whole resort during the 13-10 month window, but I am not certain that no one other than the owner can get the fixed, deeded week during ARP...

Cheers!


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