# Need advice at the Grand Mayan, Nuevo Vallarta



## korndoc (Mar 2, 2016)

I have been a member of TUG for many years and know all about buying on the 2ndary market.  I have saved many friends and turned then on to TUG.   And yet, here I am in the Grand Mayan, a Vida/Vidanta Resort in Nuevo Vallarta getting sucked in.  Knowing I would have 5 days to rescind, I signed up figuring I would write to TUG for help right away. 

So here is the deal:  They take my Marriott 2 BR lockout at the Desert Springs Villas away from me (current MF close to $1400.  I have only traded my 2 bedrooms for single weeks in Interval and have never stayed at my Marriott.  I am not at all dissatisfied with my Marriott but thought this might be a better deal) For this deal I get 2 weeks at the Grand Mayan,  1 bedroom each, at any of Vidantas 7 Mexican resorts for 100 years plus a 3rd week for 10 years,  plus 2 more weeks, 2 bedrooms each, using SFX exchange company.  But this is considered a Residence and not a T/S so I do not give up any weeks to SFX (this concerns me.  Why would SFX give me any priority if I am not giving them any inventory?)   I only pay MF when I use the weeks. ($1000 for each of the 3 weeks at a Grand Mayan and up to $900 to SFX for a 2 BR or up to $700 to SFX for a 1 BR)  I currently pay Marriott whether I use my weeks or not, of course.  But if I elect to not use any of the new weeks, there is no MF
The cost would be $12,250 + 1500 closing costs +$2200 tax (about $16,000) + my 2BR Marriott.

And here is the bait:  They have an Ambassador program.  I am given 10 certificates for a free 1 week stay at the Grand Mayan in a 1 BR unit per year.  I give these away to charities to use in their annual silent auctions.  I receive $300 for every person who bids on a vacation and makes a reservation.  They do not have to go to a sales presentation, but if they do and purchase, I get $500 commission. This commission increases per sale based on how many sales are made. So if all 10 certificates are redeemed, I get $3000 + any commissions based on sales. So let’s say only 5 certificates are redeemed at the charity auctions and there are 2 sales, that could equal $2500 per year to offset the $16,000 cost.  

So 4-5 weeks vacations: 2 at a Vida resort x 100 years, 1 week at Vida for 10years, 2 weeks of 2 bedrooms at SFX plus the Ambassador program that could ultimately pay the $16,000.  This is the only Vidanta resort I have stayed at and it is beautiful. Hopefully the rest are of this quality.  I have never used SFX, so that is also a concern.

Waddaya think?   I have 5 days from today (Tuesday March 1) to rescind. 
Thanks, 
Jeff


----------



## Solski (Mar 2, 2016)

RESCIND lol just went thru this it don't make sense and that ambassadors program  I do not believe it works well but they sure build it up like a big fat carrot  that being said a. Beautiful resort but I felt uncomfortable because of the caste system imposed with the bands. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SmithOp (Mar 2, 2016)

Rescind asap.

Lockoff your Marriott in Interval and get two weeks.

Join SFX for free and get access to the same cash bonus weeks.

There are lots of stories on here of people trading in timeshares for Mexico properties and the transactions never complete, only to find themselves still owning a year later.

Do you really want to become a shill for Vidanta by giving these coupons to charities and providing them with more fodder for their high pressure sales pitch?


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Karen G (Mar 2, 2016)

Get out while you still can!  You've been around TUG long enough to know better.

First off, don't count on them "getting rid" of your other timeshare. They'll put you in touch with a third party who will charge you another hefty fee to advertise your timeshare (maybe) and you'll likely be stuck with it and the maintenance fee that goes with it.

Second, why would you subject even your worst enemy let alone any friend or charity auction donor to a timeshare presentation down there?  How could you even trust them to pay you a commission for all the leads you'll provide them?


----------



## Passepartout (Mar 2, 2016)

Korndoc, in case there are any questions, re-read Karen G's post over and over. As many times as it takes.

The only thing you can be sure of in an offer like theirs, is that it's good for them. Not you.

Jim


----------



## falmouth3 (Mar 2, 2016)

SmithOp said:


> Rescind asap.
> 
> Lockoff your Marriott in Interval and get two weeks.
> 
> Join SFX for free and get access to the same cash bonus weeks.



Exactly what I was thinking.  Grand Mayans come up regularly on the sell-off list.  And for exchanges.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 2, 2016)

*Value - Marriot Desert Springs*



SmithOp said:


> Rescind asap.
> 
> Lockoff your Marriott in Interval and get two weeks.
> 
> ...



value of Marriott  Desert Springs 
I just scanned eBay sold -high was week 52 - $8K - winter weeks up to $3K 
summer weeks $ 1 and change . In recent times Vidanta / Vida / Mayan has worked with 3 rd party resellers ( sell on eBay) and most "trade ins " happened successfully ..
A Marriott will get " moved " although you could probably do it yourself on TUG or similar .( Could cost you 2016 MF ) If you go the trade in route make sure that it stipulates IN WRITING that Vidanta / Vida or their " partner are responsible for all costs including all transfers fees MF etc .

In Feb 2016 I did speak to a gentleman who bought Bliss level in 2014/15 and traded in a small Banff Alberta resort . He told me that "Global" ( 3rd party reseller ) had it for a year with no sale ( Hey - even the $1 on eBay ones do not always find a buyer ) He then called the HOA in Alberta and was lucky enough to have them agree to take it back for free .
It is to Vidanta / Vida advantage to take trade ins and ( generally ) have a third party dispose of them professionally . The old days of ending up with two are a lot less likely - particularly when we are talking Marriott.

Re : The shill issue - personally I am uncomfortable with it as well . 
I am sure that you will get money from them - but when it stops working for Vidanta the program will end . It is a carrot and if it grows more carrots - they are the big winner and you remain the shill .

If you buy developer - buy to use the property in Jan / Feb - when availability is hard to find  at most good resorts that are in sunny warm places . 
.March - Dec you can trade in / rent from owner  etc and do not need to buy .( unless you want some owner amenities -- ie low cost golf etc /which you specifically negotiate 

To USE in Jan / Feb make sure the contract has a booking window of at least 6 months and that this is in place for all renewals in the RTU - not just the first 10 years . This may require a written Addendum from member services if it is not already in the contract 
Rescind if not given .


----------



## drguy (Mar 2, 2016)

Korndoc-
Much f the advice given is coming from non Vida owners that are highly prejudiced.  We traded in many timeshares and they were disposed of by Global after I kept contacting them.  The mf's did go away, so our purchase paid for itself in less than 3 years since we had the "no pay if you don't use it" clause as well and reduced our mf outlay by about $9000/year.  Be aware that there are also mandatory fees for updating the units every few years.  That timing depends upon your contract.
Your one bedroom GM may be the hotel side or the suite side.  Check it out.
As for the Ambassador program, it does not need to be used.  You could also give it to a friend for their use, or rent it to them for a small fee and recoup some of you money.  Charitable deductions are doubtful.
Rescind if you have qualms, or enjoy your purchase if you are content with the deal.
Full disclosure, we own a Grand Luxxe Loft unit, so have been drinking the koolaid for a number of years.  We know that the money is gone forever, and enjoy ourselves when we go. 
Good luck in deciding!


----------



## Karen G (Mar 2, 2016)

drguy said:


> Korndoc-
> Much f the advice given is coming from non Vida owners that are highly prejudiced. !


 As one of the non-Vida owners who has given advice in this thread I freely admit that I am prejudiced!   Based on the myriad number of people who have posted in this forum their horror stories of being duped by Mexican timeshare salesmen,  if someone posts that they wonder if they have made a good deal and they are with in their rescission  time period, I advise  that they rescind  while they still can.  After  doing more research and giving the matter a lot more thought,  they can always go back and make another deal. But if they don't rescind, they are stuck with it.

 Of course it is a matter of personal choice and everyone is free to do whatever they want to. But if they ask I'll give them my opinion. 

 As the owner of a Mexican timeshare for the last 18 years, I  do wish that I did not have as many years left on the  RTU contract.  But I am thankful that it was for only 29 years and not 100 years.


----------



## Passepartout (Mar 2, 2016)

drguy said:


> Korndoc-
> Full disclosure, we own a Grand Luxxe Loft unit, so have been drinking the koolaid for a number of years.  We know that the money is gone forever.....



To continue the quote that Karen snipped regarding comments from non-owners.

This continuation from one who admits ownership.

Owning is fine, as long as one has full disclosure of the details of the deal, and is comfortable with them. All too often, though, the facts that new buyers get from Vida's salesweasels lack in this.

Jim


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 2, 2016)

*All advise - if valid - iis or can be useful*



Karen G said:


> As one of the non-Vida owners who has given advice in this thread I freely admit that I am prejudiced!   Based on the myriad number of people who have posted in this forum their horror stories of being duped by Mexican timeshare salesmen,  if someone posts that they wonder if they have made a good deal and they are with in their rescission  time period, I advise  that they rescind  while they still can.  After  doing more research and giving the matter a lot more thought,  they can always go back and make another deal. But if they don't rescind, they are stuck with it.
> 
> Of course it is a matter of personal choice and everyone is free to do whatever they want to. But if they ask I'll give them my opinion.
> 
> As the owner of a Mexican timeshare for the last 18 years, I  do wish that I did not have as many years left on the  RTU contract.  But I am thankful that it was for only 29 years and not 100 years.



Karen , 
I think all advise  can be helpful . 
As a Mayan Palace owner who had a trade in - that did not go through - in pre 2008'( small Canadian Vacation Club / limited mkt & before I found TUG ) I fully understand that once upon a time many were left on the hook owning 2 TS .
I believe that rarely happens now because the third party resellers  can sell most on eBay and ( GET IT IN WRITING ) Vidanta pays Global ( from the money you pay ) to cover the cost & Global' profit .

I spoke to lots of owners in Feb 2016 -and posted the story of the Bliss buyer and the Banff Alberta " trade in " to make it clear that there are TS properties that may not sell , even for $1 . That gentleman was lucky in that the resort took it back - no charge . Perhaps it was a decent summer week in a small HOA . He no longer wanted to visit Alberta but perhaps the HOA could use it -as Banff is busy then ( I did not ask details of resort or week ) 

Karen - the Vidanta contracts renew periodically ( 10 yrs ( newer ones  / 25 yrs older ones like mine etc ) and so no one has to remain with them for 100 yrs of RTU .
With the " no go/ no pay " clause  - which is common in Vidanta contracts you have an exit strategy built into the purchase . For you at year 18 it sounds like you wish your PB had something similar built in .
The " no go / no pay " combined  with the Vidanta transfer cost is why very few are showing up on eBay these days ( none I can find so far in 2016 ) Pueblo Bonita's are regularly for sale on TUG and eBay . If you can no longer travel - but have no MF there is no need to sell . Yes you are wasting the prepayment for 
weeks in your contract - but that is sunk money . Yearly  new money for something you can no longer use is what drives the resale market and the scammers who promise to rid people of unwanted TS .

When we stayed at the Mayan Palace - Marina PV this Feb (2016) it was full . It was also fully booked for the rest of Feb & March ( including 2 Easter weeks / Mexican holidays ) Most people I talked to were long time owners who live in cold winter climate areas . They own so they can be in Mexican sunshine in Feb .
Our second week was Mayan Sea Garden Neuvo - which we also really liked - because of it's smaller size . First stay on the Nayarit side of the Ameca River .


Owning for FEB  can makes sense ( less exchange availability ) 
Owning for MAY  - why - easy to exchange into Mexico,.

If any TUG members are regularly ( 2014 and more recent) getting FEBRUARY exchanges into Vidanta PV & NV resorts please post . I believe the mantra of "easy to exchange into " is mostly for March - Dec. - but this an opinion / guess .

SFX and Vida Weeks - this program is often packaged as a part of new sales .
( we did a Feb owners update - and it was about upgrade, benefits and the Ambassadors / certificates but not Vida weeks & SFX .)

I believe SFX / Vida Weeks are a bonus week program . You get the week as a bonus when you buy . It can only be used to exchange and if done you pay SFX a fee for use . I think Vidanta wishes to get away from mass developer deposits into RCI and this is a " work around " that gives every buyer at least  a week to use at a Vidanta resort and a week to exchange if you want . Every week exchanged into SFX has the potential to bring Vidanta a new sales lead . Buyer and developer win - and you no longer see 300 weeks (May- Dec weeks  showing up on RCI 
That is my guess on the goals of this SFX -Vidanta collaboration . 
Anyone have further information .? or thought .

Knowledge is Power / I want more Knowledge


----------



## Karen G (Mar 2, 2016)

Thanks T-Dot for the info. Yes, I would like that feature of no-go no-pay!


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 2, 2016)

*No pay / no go,*



Karen G said:


> Thanks T-Dot for the info. Yes, I would like that feature of no-go no-pay!



It was the hook that got me / us to buy 

It has worked out well considering how little we knew 

For 2 years I put our week in RCI and then let it expire  . In 2010 we decided we should stop wasting money and use . Called reservations in January and was able to get Mazatlan Sea Garden for Febuary ( Acapulco was also available ) I do not think I had heard of Maz but our 2 sons ( early 20's at the time) who came on that vacation said Acapulco had a party reputation so "we " might like Maz better . 

Puerto Vallarta remains our favorite and we are now past vacation day 50 in that 
PV sunshine ( 3 or 4 were cloudy - but still  wonderfully warm and never a drop of rain . )

I have learned a lot from reading TUG 
Trying to pass it on .


----------



## Passepartout (Mar 2, 2016)

Karen G said:


> Thanks T-Dot for the info. Yes, I would like that feature of no-go no-pay!



We were at M.P. Regency Mazatlan in Jan. and went to the more-or-less obligatory presentation for the required thumbscrew session after breakfast. Their main 'selling point' was this 'no-go no-pay' thing. I said, 'Huh? If I don't buy, I don't pay anything if I don't rent, exchange, or Last Call into your resort. Why should I pay tens of thousands of dollars for the same deal?' And if I can't rent, exchange or whatever, there are other resorts where I can.

Jim


----------



## rpennisi (Mar 2, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> We were at M.P. Regency Mazatlan in Jan. and went to the more-or-less obligatory presentation for the required thumbscrew session after breakfast. Their main 'selling point' was this 'no-go no-pay' thing. I said, 'Huh? If I don't buy, I don't pay anything if I don't rent, exchange, or Last Call into your resort. Why should I pay tens of thousands of dollars for the same deal?' And if I can't rent, exchange or whatever, there are other resorts where I can.
> 
> Jim


I had a similar presentation offer as you did at GM Acapulco this past January.  We own 2 MP contracts (Ebay).  The proposal was pay the remainder of your contract up front (all the MFs estimated, 5 year renos and 5X renewal at end of 25 years) and I would get no pay if no go at the GM.  i almost laughed and turned down their deal.

I use all our weeks.  Mostly I deposit into RCI and trade for GM or other wonderful Mexican resorts (no AI) for the price of MP MF plus around 200 to trade, still way below the GM MF cost and NO UPFRONT 1000's.

Feb, March may be hard to get, but so far not January.

Also, and this is important  but you never see it mentioned, you can book beyond the 6 months and even beyond the 12 months that Vidanta contracts give you.  

Ron


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 3, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> We were at M.P. Regency Mazatlan in Jan.
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim ,
I know from reading other posts that you  generally visit Mazatlan  annually .
I assume this was an exchange . Can you update if all of prime Jan / Feb was available  when you made an exchange and how long ago you booked ( approx) 

My sense is that  Mayan Palace  Acapulco and Mazatlan are not hard to find even for prime winter . 
but that MP -PV -Marina ( location location location ) - as they say in real estate ,
and the Neuvo resorts are more difficult .

Any info would be appreciated .
********
No go / no pay - is probably worth $ 2000- 3000 based on the average cost to exit a timeshare ie  current year MF + closing cost + transfer fee .
I am basing this on the many eBay sales where these are listed as " seller paid" 
savings to the new buyer/ owner .

Using it as an exit strategy can simplify a life change situation . 
It alone is not worth a 16 K purchase  
but if someone chooses to buy Vidanta and asks - I would advise them to make sure they have it WRITEN in the contract - since it is a fairly common Vida Vacation addendum  and offsets the high transfer cost they instituted (to get their product off eBay ) but which also makes it hard to dispose of - if future life changes were to prevent vacation use of your RTU week(s)


----------



## Passepartout (Mar 3, 2016)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Hi Jim ,
> I know from reading other posts that you  generally visit Mazatlan  annually .
> I assume this was an exchange . Can you update if all of prime Jan / Feb was available  when you made an exchange and how long ago you booked ( approx)



Yes, it was an exchange. Iirc it was in Aug/Sept-ish. One week using RCI Points and one using Trading Places. I can't say whether all of 2 months were offered, but it wasn't real difficult to book 2 consecutive weeks in that timeframe. We didn't have to move at all. One observation; exchangers seemed to get 'highway view', and we were told, "We're all full" when I inquired about the possibility of moving to ocean view, even at the presentation.

Nice enough resort, but we won't make any effort to return.


----------



## rpennisi (Mar 3, 2016)

Passepartout said:


> Yes, it was an exchange. Iirc it was in Aug/Sept-ish. One week using RCI Points and one using Trading Places. I can't say whether all of 2 months were offered, but it wasn't real difficult to book 2 consecutive weeks in that timeframe. We didn't have to move at all. One observation; exchangers seemed to get 'highway view', and we were told, "We're all full" when I inquired about the possibility of moving to ocean view, even at the presentation.
> 
> Nice enough resort, but we won't make any effort to return.



Haven't stayed at MP in Mazatlan, but the PB in Mazatlan was very good, and the PB at Emerald Bay was great.  Both traded on RCI with MP deposits for Jan 2015.  PB has a free hourly shuttle from Emerald Bay to PB Mazatlan which is terrific.

I doubt MP offers a free shuttle, and the location puts it out of the way in my opinion.
Ron


----------



## Passepartout (Mar 3, 2016)

rpennisi said:


> Haven't stayed at MP in Mazatlan, but the PB in Mazatlan was very good, and the PB at Emerald Bay was great.  Both traded on RCI with MP deposits for Jan 2015.  PB has a free hourly shuttle from Emerald Bay to PB Mazatlan which is terrific.
> 
> I doubt MP offers a free shuttle, and the location puts it out of the way in my opinion.
> Ron



Yeah. I'm well versed in Maz, having gone there nearly 30 years. I prefer PB Maz to PBEB. Emerald Bay is waaay too far from the city- 100 pesos minimum in a taxi to enjoy the city. As a self contained resort, I suppose it's OK. Mayan is an older property- about 40 years. We were told the Sea Garden is coming down to build a Grand Luxxe (of some other higher tier lodging) on it's footprint. The place is landlocked by residences, so is small by M.P. standards. You're right, there is no shuttle anywhere from M.P. but the city buses go right by for 7-to 10 pesos, and taxis are always out front. The Pueblo Bonito shuttles are hourly, and no grocery bags or luggage is allowed- reducing their utility.

There are beaucoup other resorts in the hotel zone, including Costa de Oro, Inn at Mazatlán, El Cid and on and on, so one needn't think that the two listed above are the only game in town. There are also many many VRBO's on the Centro Historico, which is truly where you ought to want to be anyway.

Jim


----------



## korndoc (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi Tom  





T-Dot-Traveller said:


> If you go the trade in route make sure that it stipulates IN WRITING that Vidanta / Vida or their " partner are responsible for all costs including all transfers fees MF etc


       -I do pay fees, $850 for the transfer     But after reading yours and some other TUG answers, I read the Global contract to transfer my Marriott away from me and it says they will "any weeks banked with II" is included in the equity they are taking.  Well that will be 2 years of 2 weeks each currently booked plus my 2016 week(s) that I have not yet claimed with Marriott.   I am checking that out now but that will be a deal breaker

_"If you buy developer - buy to use the property in Jan / Feb - when availability is hard to find  at most good resorts that are in sunny warm places ."_
good point   tough to get these winter weeks anywhere warm with my winter marriott at Palm Desert  I do have 8 month pre-booking for the original week and 6 month pre-booking for the bonus week.  Also, a bit concerned and I am checking: the contract says I get one registered week and a 2nd promotional Grand Collection Week at a sister resort every year.  I need to know if that means only at one of the other resorts in Mexico or also here at Nuevo Vallarta
 I am checking to be sure this extends on the original week and the bonus week every 10 year renewal as you suggested.

Thanks
Jeff
(can someone tell me how to quote parts of a response for my reply? I was only able to "quote" the first line in this reply.    I think that is why I lost my private message to you, Tom)


----------



## korndoc (Mar 3, 2016)

drguy said:


> Your one bedroom GM may be the hotel side or the suite side.  Check it out./QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks drguy
> It is the 1 BR suite side for the original week plus the bonus week and 2 BR, two weeks in SFX   no annual charge for SFX but $700-900 when using a 2BR through SFX
> Jeff


----------



## korndoc (Mar 3, 2016)

Karen G said:


> As the owner of a Mexican timeshare for the last 18 years, I  do wish that I did not have as many years left on the  RTU contract.  But I am thankful that it was for only 29 years and not 100 years.



Hi Karen   I do appreciate your thoughts
Interestingly, this contract is a no use, no pay contract    so I can skip a year with no charges    and if there are hidden charges, I can opt out after 10 years by not paying the $1000 fee at that time

Jeff


----------



## korndoc (Mar 3, 2016)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> I believe SFX.......gives every buyer at least  a week to use at a Vidanta resort and a week to exchange if you want . Every week exchanged into SFX has the potential to bring Vidanta a new sales lead .



Tom,I do not have to give up or exhange either of my 2 Vida weeks to use SFX.  
Vida pays the annual fee and I just put in my request without giving up anything.  yeah, I still don't understand it bu I did double check that one
Jeff


----------



## korndoc (Mar 3, 2016)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Regarding No Go No Pay: if someone chooses to buy Vidanta and asks - I would advise them to make sure they have it WRITEN in the contract - since it is a fairly common Vida Vacation addendum



Contract says you pay the user fees when you reserve a week.  Does not specifically say there is no fee if not used, but there is no mention of other annual fees either   Just the additional user fee once every 10 years
Jeff


----------



## Karen G (Mar 3, 2016)

korndoc said:


> Hi Karen   I do appreciate your thoughts
> Interestingly, this contract is a no use, no pay contract    so I can skip a year with no charges    and if there are hidden charges, I can opt out after 10 years by not paying the $1000 fee at that time
> 
> Jeff


if you did decide to opt out after 10 years, is it worth what you are paying for just 10 years worth of use? When I said I wish my current ownership had a no go no pay feature,  that is not something that would have been an incentive for me to buy a timeshare originally.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 3, 2016)

korndoc said:


> Contract says you pay the user fees when you reserve a week.  Does not specifically say there is no fee if not used, but there is no mention of other annual fees either   Just the additional user fee once every 10 years
> Jeff



If you go forward with the purchase -  I would go to member services and request that the wording be specific - that there is no MF due on any weeks not used -as some kind of addendum 
Member services is in the Grand Bliss - same floor as the sales floor 
I believe the hours are 9-12 for a meeting and an appt ( of some kind ) is required - per the sign outside the doorway 

My contract is pre 2010 - so renewal is every 25 yrs ( 5 x MF ) and every 5 years a second " renovation MF " is due . 
Since Vidanta is RTU they count on some people dropping out . On the other hand they have knocked down MP buildings to build bigger better Grand Mayan and/or Grand Luxxe- so the quality level is based on improvement and NOT the model of  " let it get run down and increase the margins" 
This process - including their sales process has allowed them to keep growing which is good for me as an existing " legacy / not upgraded " ( by choice ) owner .


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 4, 2016)

*RE SFX and Vida Weeks ( with SFX*



korndoc said:


> Tom,I do not have to give up or exhange either of my 2 Vida weeks to use SFX.
> Vida pays the annual fee and I just put in my request without giving up anything.  yeah, I still don't understand it bu I did double check that one
> Jeff



Dear Jeff 
The Vidanta / Vida / Mayan World folks have a good long term relationship with SFX 
Once upon a time Vidanta was more focused on selling TS than they were on filling the resorts . In the last 5 years or so they have also focused on the resort / hotel / reservation side of their biz . 

On RCI you will see 2 resort numbers for their properties . I have read on TUG that one lists owner deposited exchanges and the other is for developer deposits.
( I believe that is also how they "pay" RCI  for " listing / shelf space " ) I have also read on TUG ( not specific to Vidanta) that an owner may call their resort and be told there is no availability and also see the week they want on RCI and the resort reservations will tell them " apples and oranges " - we deposited that week into RCI so it is no longer " ours" .
There are times on RCI were you will see 200+ weeks of a specific Vidanta property listed . Most of these are shoulder to low season and often  the cost is at or even below MF of an owner week - when on sale by RCI . ( Mayan owners are excluded from Extra vacatons & Last Calls , while exchangers have 1 in 3 yr rule per resort )

Historically - the exchangers coming from RCI are seen by many developers as a source of fodder for new sales ( We were  and bought a Mayan Palace ) 
That model probably still works to some degree - but all those glut of weeks is probably viewed by Vidanta management (today ) as a ( xxx - you fill in / problem ) Also if you exchange / bank  weeks as you have with YOUR Marriott Grand Desert - then you never visit and Vidanta /Vida /Mayan looses the " hotel " side revenue . 

By taking " developer" weeks and giving them as a bonus (to new buyers ) THAT are only  depositable into SFX - you the buyer can visit Grand Mayan annually AND gain flexibility and more vacation options ,AND  SFX has  deposited weeks to " sell " that presumably  bring new guests to the Vidanta  resorts - which Vidanta hopes to convince to go to a presentation AND sell.
Win - Win for everyone ( except maybe RCI ) 

I am not suggesting that RCI (as the number one exchange company in number of member resorts) will not have access to,or be a exchange " partner " for Vidanta / Vida / Mayan . I am suggesting that Vidanta has innovatively come up with a model that helps their own sales by offering " bonus / Vida SFX  weeks and the result of this is a model should also continue to bring them " new leads / ie exchangers AND reduces their dependence / glut problem of developer weeks on RCI 

An additional part of this " fill the hotel side AND sell new owners - is that I " see" Vidanta increasing their sales focus on Mexican nationals for " summer season " weeks . Historically it was the 4 holiday weeks ( Semana Santa / Pasqua ie the week before and the week after Easter Sunday ) and Christmas & New Years weeks that were sold to nationals . I believe Vidanta is focused on filling more of the historic slower  summer season - with the growing Mexican middle class . 
One day if your ownership is the 48 week / red season  , I believe , Vidanta  will invite you to a " owner update " with the goal of getting you to upgrade and in return for a bonus ( ?? more Vida SFX weeks / longer winter booking window  etc)  they will ask you to relinquish the right to book " summer season weeks " 
IT MIGHT EVEN BE A GOOD IDEA

Sea Garden , Mayan Palace :  are being " repurposed  not eliminated 

as is Acapulco,- which in addition to being a "drive to " vacation destination for Mexico City also contains a new RCI designation for the  group of Mayan Palace 
buildings NOT near  the beach . Those buildings now list on RCI as Acapulco - Golf Resort . 

( NOTE- if any TUG members understand this better - please add info details and thought - about any of this Mayan World speculation of mine


And yes I am in sales marketing and Vidanta fascinates me


----------



## pittle (Mar 4, 2016)

If you are buying because of the Ambassador program, I would say rescind.  

If you are buying because you prefer Grand Mayan over your Marriott, then keep it.  

I have never owned or stayed at a Marriott timeshare, but have been to all of the Mayan Palace and Grand Mayan resorts, plus Grand Bliss in Nuevo and Grand Luxxe in Neuvo and have had wonderful vacation experiences.  We love Mayan World as I call it.  Just this week we popped by the Puerto Penasco resort to check out the new Grand Mayan, and it was really nice. I am thinking about taking some friends there for a "girls trip" within the next year.

We have owned numerous timeshares over the years, but Mayan World resorts and Buganvilias Vacation Club (in Puerto Vallarta) are our favorites and we have not regretted our purchases there.  We did purchase several eBay units at each and then used those towards upgrades to higher level units.  

We still own one PBEB unit and tend to trade it for a Buganvilias or a Mayan World resort each year.    That is how much we like them! 

Only you can decide it that is where you always want to go when on vacation.  You cannot count on exchanges or rentals.  We stand by the buy where you want to go, and go there philosophy.


----------



## MuranoJo (Mar 5, 2016)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> ...My contract is pre 2010 - so renewal is every 25 yrs ( 5 x MF ) and every 5 years a second " renovation MF " is due .
> Since Vidanta is RTU they count on some people dropping out . On the other hand they have knocked down MP buildings to build bigger better Grand Mayan and/or Grand Luxxe- so the quality level is based on improvement and NOT the model of  " let it get run down and increase the margins"
> *This process - including their sales process has allowed them to keep growing which is good for me as an existing " legacy / not upgraded " ( by choice ) owner .*



Hi, T-Dot,

I highlighted in the above an area I don't understand from your post.  I'm also a 'legacy' MP owner and I don't necessarily see how knocking down MP buildings and replacing them with higher levels is good for MP owners.  Seems to me it just means fewer MP units available for us owners.  Can you expand?
Thanks.


----------



## ronandjoan (Mar 5, 2016)

Just a note:  We just checked into MP PV on an SFX exchange and neither the front desk clerk nor the "sales pitch greeter " knew what SFX was.

We were offered 10% off our MP bill, rt airline ticket ( certificate) to Mexico ( good for a year) to go to presentation.  When I said No, he added an hour massage.  

I still said No.  He obviously thought we were crazy but he let us go then.

They are going to charge us $75/per week for being an exchanger.  Anyone heard of that?  ( that's over and above the required tax)


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 5, 2016)

*Hi MuranoJo -expanded*



MuranoJo said:


> Hi, T-Dot,
> 
> I highlighted in the above an area I don't understand from your post.  I'm also a 'legacy' MP owner and I don't necessarily see how knocking down MP buildings and replacing them with higher levels is good for MP owners.  Seems to me it just means fewer MP units available for us owners.  Can you expand?
> Thanks.



Vidanta remains very successful and continues to grow . Since both our contracts ( mine is 10 yrs old ) are RTU the have to " allow us in " I have spoken to folks at the MP PV Marina. who have Sea Garden ( bought when there was one there ) and continue to use  the MP -Marina PV every year . 

We personally prefer the smaller scale properties - and liked Sea Garden NV (first visit ) 
( our week 2 / Feb 2016 - MP PV was full for Prez- Wk ) We may never go to Cirque - but I am glad Vidanta management wants to offer " the best " . To me - my MP ownership is like owning the small house in an expensive neighbourhood - much better than the reverse .
We went to an owner presentation ( first since 2012 / when it was all construction in NV ) and turned down an upgrade . We said - no thanks , we like what we have - before anything was in writing .
I do think they would really likes my 50% off golf back .
I also prefer to wait 15 years to renewal . If we are healthy and they still run great resorts - we will see . 

<<There are TS systems in the USA - that grow by buying others - and upping MF >>
                     ( see DRI bought Gold Key thread on TUG ) 

We are happy to leave the cold winter in Feb and stay in a Mayan Palace level suite .The sunshine is the same as at the Grand Luxxe . But I am glad Vidanta is growing because of GL , golf , Cirque etc . I think it is good - for them and for existing owners, -  and for more recent owners -at higher brand levels who desire those amenities .

If NV was like it was in 2005 - would it be full and updated or half full and gradually getting run down ? 

Thoughts ??


----------



## korndoc (Mar 5, 2016)

Karen G said:


> if you did decide to opt out after 10 years, is it worth what you are paying for just 10 years worth of use? When I said I wish my current ownership had a no go no pay feature,  that is not something that would have been an incentive for me to buy a timeshare originally.



This is not an incentive for me, either, and no, not really worth just 10 years of usage.  But at least you can get out if finances or health warrant it.  That said, at just a $1000 extra per 10 years and then no charge if not used, this is pretty flexible financially.
Jeff


----------



## Karen G (Mar 5, 2016)

So korndoc, did you keep what you bought or rescind?


----------



## MuranoJo (Mar 6, 2016)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> ...Vidanta remains very successful and continues to grow . Since both our contracts ( mine is 10 yrs old ) are RTU the have to " allow us in " I have spoken to folks at the MP PV Marina. who have Sea Garden ( bought when there was one there ) and continue to use  the MP -Marina PV every year .
> 
> ...We personally prefer the smaller scale properties - and liked Sea Garden NV (first visit )
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response.  Yes, I agree Vidanta is successful and growing.  But I'm like you and prefer the smaller-scale properties (really like the PV location).  NV, IMO, is a mega-resort and they seem to make it difficult to even get off property, which is the main reason we visit the area--to get out & about, not hang at the pool all day.

I'm glad your friends are able to use MP since the Sea Garden is gone now, and I know of some MP owners who've been able to reserve a GM in Cabo since there are no MP there.  I'm probably a bit skeptical, but I'm not convinced they'll do this at all locations, nor consistently.  And I'm not sure why RTU would guarantee access if they tear down lower levels.  

Far as I know, ACA is the only location where they are investing in MP and they could tell us no availability except at ACA in the future.  

But again, I may be too skeptical.  I've not tried for Cabo myself yet.


----------



## korndoc (Mar 6, 2016)

To Tom, Phyllis, Karen, Jim and everyone else who wrote to help with my decision.

I believe Vidanta is a very good company to own at.  Everything is spotless and done to perfection.  They wash stones for goodness sake. We really enjoyed our week here and love some of the other areas with sister sites.

I went to the presentation JUST for the freebee I was offered (free tickets to the very enjoyable Rhythms of the Night)  I have been to numerous presentations and always leave without buying, being a long time Tug member.  But this time the carrots were many, as described in my opening statement, with the "no go no pay" concept, 2 one bedrooms per year at the resort plus 2 two bedrooms per year at SFX if I pay for them without having to deposit my weeks.

What really got my attention was being able to pay it off in about 5 years using the Ambassador Certificates.  Give them to charities for their silent auctions.  Get $300 for everyone who bids for them and goes to one of the locations, plus a commission for anyone who actually purchases.  

BUT I had a lot of questions, such as contract saying one thing, sales person saying another.   I sent her numerous emails during the next 2 days which she answered but I would then have even more questions.  I called Global, the company that would take my Marriott, because their contract said they would take all my banked II deposits (I have a couple years worth).  They told me on the phone not to worry about that but the contract says otherwise.   The Vidanta contract says the SFX contract is only for one year but the salesperson assures me it is for the 100 years I would own at the property.  As much as I would want to believe her and that the company is reputable and really will stand behind what they say, Tuggers have taught me to not believe anything not in writing and I had too many questions that would need to be added to the contract (as Tom suggests) than I had time to deal with, given the 5 day rescission deadline and that I was leaving on the 3rd day.

Plus, as Phyllis points out, don't do this deal for the Ambassador Program.  I did not want to pay $16,000 and saw this as a way to pay for the program. But I did not meet any owners who were using it, so no way to be sure I should depend on it.

Finally, while still in Mexico, I emailed a good friend who has been to Grand Mayan several times, trading his studio lock out at the same Marriott Desert Springs I own and getting 1 and 2 bedroom units in the winter!  His advice was why buy there if you can trade in.  He even got a 2 bedroom unit paying for an II Getaway.

I did go to the Contract Service dept the last day I was there to rescind.  The woman who greeted us immediately told us not to worry, they respect our wishes.   The person I needed to talk to would be in the next day, but we were leaving later the day I was talking to her.  So she took our information, including contract number, and would give it to the manager we were supposed to see.   She told me to email my decision right away and then send the written notice the next day from home.   Of course we are following all the rules.   There was already an email sent the next day from the contract dept telling me we are in good hands and all will be taken care of.   

 They do seem like a class operation that would likely stand behind all that was said at the presentation.  And EVERY owner we saw loved their ownership.  

  Thanks again for all your help
   Jeff


----------



## Karen G (Mar 6, 2016)

korndoc said:


> As much as I would want to believe her and that the company is reputable and really will stand behind what they say, Tuggers have taught me to not believe anything not in writing and I had too many questions that would need to be added to the contract (as Tom suggests) than I had time to deal with, given the 5 day rescission deadline and that I was leaving on the 3rd day.


You did well. Thanks for the update.


----------



## hurnik (Mar 6, 2016)

ronandjoan said:


> Just a note:  We just checked into MP PV on an SFX exchange and neither the front desk clerk nor the "sales pitch greeter " knew what SFX was.
> 
> We were offered 10% off our MP bill, rt airline ticket ( certificate) to Mexico ( good for a year) to go to presentation.  When I said No, he added an hour massage.
> 
> ...



Yes, the $75 fee is for airport to resort transportation, wi-fi, and cleaning.  They've been charging that on all my SFX (and possibly RCI/II) since at least Jan 2015, maybe even earlier.


----------



## rpennisi (Mar 6, 2016)

For my Jan 2016 GM stay in Acapulco through RCI, there was no $75 charge.  Then again, there was no transportation from the airport.

Does anyone know why RCI charges points members and not weeks members extra in trades?  I am a weeks member.


----------



## pittle (Mar 7, 2016)

korndoc - Thank you so much for taking the time to let us know how this worked out.  Yes you can be a member of SFX for as long as you want at no charge, but the 1 year was for the Platinum plan that allows you an automatic upgrade to a larger unit when you do exchange and lower exchange fees.  The free plan is pretty iffy on the upgrades for unit sizes and the exchange fees and bonus vacation fees are higher. 

We have been taken in by all the glitz and glam more than once at timeshares, but after 25 years, we do understand that if it sounds too good to be true, do not get suckered in.  The various sales/rental options always make it sound like you are getting your place for free, but that is not the case.  Generally if they would take your place to rent to prospects, you have to pay your MF first then most likely a "small"  service fee, so you do not get money back, or maybe very little.  

I will say that I know of people who send friends down and if they buy, the sender gets free MF for the next year.    That is not too bad, but I tell my friends if they want to go, just rent one of my extra weeks for the cost of the MF and skip the presentation and hassle.  It is a win-win for them and no loss for me.


----------



## 1950panda (Mar 8, 2016)

i am a former Grand Myan now Luxxe Loft.  Got 2 SFX weeks on deposit.  Tried for 6 months to get a few weeks in Jan in PV and did not get a thing.  Ambassador Program--I don't use.  Got a lot of surprises this year. Check Trip advisor for reviews.  Stopped shuttle to Grand Mayan.  Long time members that were previously happy, very unhappy.  Several of us are trying to organize to submit a proposal hoping to get action on some issues.  Beautiful resort but access issues to get off property and distances on property, long walks to get anywhere, really a hardship for elderly and handicapped not needing a wheelchair.  Check out the posts on Vidanta members Coalition.  Also, if you paid by VISA you have a 14 day cooling off period.


----------



## korndoc (Mar 8, 2016)

You are right about the long walks at the Grand Mayan.   We talked about it often. Long walks to the restaurants at the different areas within the resort. 
Long walk to the shuttle that then takes you to the taxi stand.
The cab drivers hate it also as their ride in is longer as well. 

Maybe it is due to those long walks, in spite of all my eating and drinking, that I only gained 2 lbs for the week (a new record for me!)  :hysterical:


----------



## Fauxqui (Mar 13, 2016)

*Too good to be true?*

Just attended a presentation at Grand Mayan. The final price offered was $7900 for the same package. (Down from $119,000). There was no mention of selling the TS I would trade to them.  They claimed the keep it in their inventory. For $7900 it was very attractive to get out of maintenance fees. I really didn't see a downside but as a Tug member I'm skeptical. If it looks too good to be true it probably is. Am I missing something?


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 13, 2016)

*As Always - What is in writing ?*

Dear Fauxqui,
I think korndoc did a good job of posting so that the " next in line " has a pathway . you in this case .
As always - what is on paper is all that counts .ie THE contract .

BUT - Is this a resort (system ) you want to use 15 + times  . If so than review the "deal " carefully and decide .

 { I picked the number 15 based on using all the initial 10 year weeks  and half the bonus weeks during the first 10 year cycle . Obviously the more weeks you use in your lifetime the lower the per week cost you are " prepaying " now .

If your main goal is to unload what you currently own - perhaps you can do so for less and still visit Grand Mayan occasionally .

Your post is making me think - what is Vidanta's goals . Sell time shares and fill the resorts. If by selling you ( and other visitors) they turn you into a yearly owner and if you come 15 + times instead of 3 or 4 they achieve both goals and the dollars they earn from your visits could triple the buy in $ of your offer . 
Changing visitors into owners also changes the future travel plans of the visitors - and in a static or shrinking North American TS market - this could be important to a developer like Vidanta that wants to keep,growing and has the support of the Mexican government because their growth increases jobs in Mexico and visitors to Mexico . 

*****
Recent TUG posts - say they use Global - when disposing of TS trade in properties

******
The hold for inventory concept -???? 

Perhaps Vidanta has been reading TUG and plans to get a bunch of Grandview LV already in RCI points ( low MF per point ) and leverage them to buy Wyndham and or RCI .
Just kidding - I am not clear why Vidanta would wish to have inventory in other TS - but they have proven to be a very adaptable developer and perhaps this concept is more than " TS sales hot air " . I am skeptical,but who knows .

Before I started reading TUG and now " new posts" , I had no idea how creative some TS folks can be on ways to best use " the big pool/world of TS " 
Maybe Vidanta has figured out a way to " game" other developers by buying  for pennies on the dollar as TUGGER's do .


BUT!!
How are they GUARANTEEING that the ownership of the 2 TS resorts will be put in "their " name .Some TS resorts  do not allow the transfer of a contract to a LLC due to  fear of the Viking Ship problem.The $7900 obviously means they have given " trade in equity " but will the " used car title " leave your name . ( ? )   ASK - sales and member services ( different depts and with different reputations ) 

Thoughts. - any and all


----------



## pittle (Mar 13, 2016)

*When it sounds too good to be true - it usually is!*

We have been owners of Mayan Palace, Grand Mayan and now Grand Luxxe units since 1999 and I can tell you, that for $7900, you are not getting much! 

Our original purchase 17 years ago was about that amount and it was for a 2-bedroom Sea Garden. Mayan World as I call it, has Sea Garden units that are about 1/2 the price of Mayan Palace units, which are about 1/2 the price of Grand Mayan units and then you have Grand Bliss and Grand Luxxe that move on up the ladder.

Make sure that you read every single page of your contract more than once and know what you are getting. Just because your salesman or his manager said it, it is not necessarily what you will be getting.  Make sure you know exactly while you have the chance to rescind or edit your contract.  We have gone back and gotten addendum's.

T-Dot is right - Bottom line is - what is in writing and signed is what you have!  Make sure it is what you thought you were buying!!!


----------



## Fauxqui (Mar 13, 2016)

*Thanks*

Thanks for your very well considered responses. 
The further away from the presentation the less likely to buy. The main reason for buying should be that you like the property and we don't. As was mentioned, it's too big and access is difficult. It's beautiful but...

They plan a Cirque d'Soliel theme park here which is another turn off. We'll be spending next week at Flamingoes and enjoying a smaller, beautiful property we really like. We'll be walking to great restaurants in Bucerias. Thanks again for confirming my thoughts.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 13, 2016)

*While your there - take a beach walk to*

Dear Fauxqui,
If you like the area - but feel the resort is too big -

go for a 1200 foot walk on the beach to the Mayan Sea Garden 
you exit by the Grand Mayan and go past 5 non Vidanta condos and you will be there 

We stayed at the Sea Garden during Presidents week - Feb 2016 
and found it a good choice for our first Neuvo stay . ( we have been to PV seven times - including the week before at MP PV - Marina )

It is non AI - has a nice size pool and has one bedroom suites with partial kitchens (as well as hotel rooms / no kitchen )  and is owned by Vidanta - 
so the upkeep is excellent .Your room number allows you to charge at all restaurants on both locations.
Daily maid service and towels

There is an OXXO a block away and regular grey ATM buses to Bucerias and Puerto Vallarta ( airport / Walmart etc ) that stop across the street from the same  OXXO

It may be a resort  you would choose for an exchange in the future 
and they have a open suite if you wish to view / just ask at the front desk 

Enjoy the sunshine


----------



## richontug (Mar 14, 2016)

I bought into Mayan Palace many years ago after an RCI exchange into Grand Mayan.

I have never stayed at MP but have used for RCI and SFX exchanges.  I use Wyndham weeks to get into GM and GL.  I love GL!

In my GL visit in February I was offered a GL package for $15,000 (no weeks), down from >$100,000  + 2 Wyndham weeks.  I did not accept.  

When I want to go back I plan to use SFX.  I could also rent on RedWeek or VRBO at about $500 over the MF.  I would have to rent for ~30 weeks to justify a $15,000 outlay now.

My 2 cents, better than $15,000!


----------



## MN2Travel (Mar 29, 2016)

*Recind*

We are owners at Grand Mayan. While the resort is beautiful, some issues have come up this year that makes you seem like you are in prison. We traded 2 timeshares a few years when we moved from the Bliss to Grand Mayan. Everything went good with the timeshare trades. You can rent weeks at Grand Mayan most years from owners who do not go. Nothing else will work like they tell you it does.


----------



## huenix (Mar 30, 2016)

richontug said:


> I bought into Mayan Palace many years ago after an RCI exchange into Grand Mayan.
> 
> I have never stayed at MP but have used for RCI and SFX exchanges.  I use Wyndham weeks to get into GM and GL.  I love GL!
> 
> ...



Or just PM anyone that posts that they are Vidanta owners and ask to rent their weeks for the maint fee. I doubt most of the owners use all their weeks.


----------

