# [ 2012 ] Advice Wanted



## SeattleKnitChick (Nov 30, 2012)

First of all - I wish I had found TUG before we bought our timeshare! 

Unfortunately we didn't and I know we don't have the best deal - but now I am trying to figure out if I should change anything or keep it as is.  Looking at the post on maintenance fees made me realize that I REALLY didn't know what I was doing when I purchased. So I'd like your opinions!

Right now I have (what I think is) a two bedroom every other year at the Karen St. Property.  This amounts to 3500 points every other year with a maintenance fee of $1,003.69 this year (that includes the 2013 club dues and the ARDA fee so I suppose it's a little lower). I still have $2,800 to pay off before my financing (through Hilton of course) is finished. 

We've never stayed at our home property but have visited the Las Vegas strip location a number of times as well as gone to HHV, Orlando and Fiesta Americana Los Cabos.  We've really enjoyed the vacations we've gone on and like the ability to use the points at a variety of locations.  

What I'm wondering is this - is it ridiculous that my maintenance fees are so high for that few points? Would it be worth trying to sell what I have and buy something else that's a smaller size unit at a platinum time? Then again if I get something that is every year instead of every other year I will be paying less but more often so it will come out to even more overall!  I don't know that I want more points right now if it will cost us even more $$$ but if there is a smarter way I could be doing this I'd love to know!

Thanks for any feedback!

Jennifer


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## Talent312 (Nov 30, 2012)

The thing is, if you trade up to a platinum unit, you'd get...
... For a 2BR unit -- 2x as many points (7000) for the same MF; or
... For a 1BR Platinum -- Pay less MF's* and still get more points (4800).
_*MF's are based on size of unit, not unit season_

IMHO, you'd benefit from selling (when paid off) and buying a better pkg resale.
You'll take a bath on your up-front lay-out, but in the years to come, you'll be far happier.
-


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## PigsDad (Nov 30, 2012)

2X what Talent said.  You are currently paying twice as much for each HGVC point -- every year -- than what an owner of a Platinum week pays for the same unit at the same resort.  Bad deal all around, and it would be best to get out of it ASAP.

Kurt


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## semicycler (Nov 30, 2012)

Sounds like you have a EOY 2-bed silver for 3500 points.

Two options:
1.  Move up in season to keep the MF's the same but raise the number of points.  A 2-bed gold is 5000 pts.  A 2-bed platinum is 7000 pts.  These two have the same MF's as the 2-bed silver you already own.

2.  Move up in season AND down in size to raise the points AND lower the MF's.  A 1-bed platinum is 4800 pts but LOWER MF'S!

Either case the "upgrade" means selling what you have and buying a different one on the resale market.  You will overpay going through the developer.


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## got4boys (Nov 30, 2012)

Enjoy it for now, until you pay it down.

Use the 30 day window for reservations for cash.

If you want to sell off in the future and buy, I would suggest buying a 1 bedroom platinum with the most points possible.

I purchased a every other year one bedroom platinum (4800 points) and waiting until the market picks up for my 2 bedroom gold (5000) to sell it in the future.

Until then, I enjoy the use of it.

Peggy


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## SeattleKnitChick (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks Everyone!  Now I'd love suggestions on the best way to get rid of it and get a new one?  My MF are due by Jan 1 so does it make the most sense to sell before or after using them? I doubt i could sell it by the end of the year so  I don't have to pay them......


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## Talent312 (Dec 2, 2012)

Read the sticky post in the "Buying, Selling & Renting" forum entitled...
"How to Sell Your Timeshare (and avoid getting scammed!)"

There are legitmate brokers who specialize in HGVC... Seth Nock and Judy Kozlowski.

_Whatever you  do..._
NEVER, ever, pay a fee of any sort up front, no matter how they describe it.
NEVER, ever, sign a power of attorney over to anyone.
Paying anything up front is a rip-off and a POA creates a cloud on your title.
.
.


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## gr8tbfree (Dec 5, 2012)

*Needs advice on Kings Land property*

As with many others, I wish I had known about resale property before purchasing the Kings Land property from Hilton.  The payment is too high and so are the maintenance fees.  Any thoughts on the sale of 2B plus, platinum, 12,600 points?  I haven't figured out yet how to determine sale price.  Next step is to buy resale.  Definitely some good advice and reading on this site.  Thanks.


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## Talent312 (Dec 5, 2012)

To determine resale value:
-- It's been suggested that you check "completed" auctions on eBay;
-- Look similar sales on reputable resale sites like Redweek; and check with
-- Two brokers who specialize in HGVC and most often recommended here:
(a) Seth Nock at http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/
(b) Judy Kozlowski at http://judikoz.com/ or http://public.remax.net/public/page...63-EABD-4018-B17F-E34268418A53&resultindex=-1
_Both of these participate in TUG and you can send them a private message._


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## SmithOp (Dec 6, 2012)

gr8tbfree said:


> As with many others, I wish I had known about resale property before purchasing the Kings Land property from Hilton.  The payment is too high and so are the maintenance fees.  Any thoughts on the sale of 2B plus, platinum, 12,600 points?  I haven't figured out yet how to determine sale price.  Next step is to buy resale.  Definitely some good advice and reading on this site.  Thanks.



Slim to none if you are still making payments, Seth Nock has one listed for $25k.

http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/hilton-kings-land/


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## Ron98GT (Dec 6, 2012)

SmithOp said:


> Slim to none if you are still making payments, Seth Nock has one listed for $25k.
> 
> http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/hilton-kings-land/



Just like a house, real estate can be listed for any value, the skies the limit.  You have to look at what has sold to determine the current value, be-it the MLS or ebay.  Buyers set the value, not the listing agent or the seller.  Although, with true HGVC TS's, not affiliates, you also have HGVC to content with because of ROFR.

Which brings up my problem with agents like Judy.  They will list it at any ridiculous value to get the listing and make the seller happy, at least temporarily until MF's are due and the seller needs to dump it. They will also list it high to keep their commissions up.  And they won't present what they would consider a low-ball offer,  it order to keep the listed prices high and their commissions high, although ebay comps show that the units are selling for a fraction of what they are listed for.  If your a licensed agent, you should be required by law to present all offers and leave it up to the buyer and seller to determine the value, not the agent.


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## SmithOp (Dec 6, 2012)

Ron98GT said:


> Just like a house, real estate can be listed for any value, the skies the limit.  You have to look at what has sold to determine the current value, be-it the MLS or ebay.  Buyers set the value, not the listing agent or the seller.  Although, with true HGVC TS's, not affiliates, you also have HGVC to content with because of ROFR.
> 
> Which brings up my problem with agents like Judy.  They will list it at any ridiculous value to get the listing and make the seller happy, at least temporarily until MF's are due and the seller needs to dump it. They will also list it high to keep their commissions up.  And they won't present what they would consider a low-ball offer,  it order to keep the listed prices high and their commissions high, although ebay comps show that the units are selling for a fraction of what they are listed for.  If your a licensed agent, you should be required by law to present all offers and leave it up to the buyer and seller to determine the value, not the agent.



That's why I said the chances of selling were slim to none.  There aren't any completed sales on eBay of the high point KL units.  Developer price is probably $60k on these, so I think it will take $25k to pass rofr.


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## vegasVIP (Dec 7, 2012)

Ron98GT said:


> Just like a house, real estate can be listed for any value, the skies the limit.  You have to look at what has sold to determine the current value, be-it the MLS or ebay.  Buyers set the value, not the listing agent or the seller.  Although, with true HGVC TS's, not affiliates, you also have HGVC to content with because of ROFR.
> 
> Which brings up my problem with agents like Judy.  They will list it at any ridiculous value to get the listing and make the seller happy, at least temporarily until MF's are due and the seller needs to dump it. They will also list it high to keep their commissions up.  And they won't present what they would consider a low-ball offer,  it order to keep the listed prices high and their commissions high, although ebay comps show that the units are selling for a fraction of what they are listed for.  If your a licensed agent, you should be required by law to present all offers and leave it up to the buyer and seller to determine the value, not the agent.




Totally agree.  I contacted Judy first and put an offer on a 7k Orlando she had.  I was told the seller rejected and in her opinion it would not pass ROFR ($10,000 all in for the 7k yearly).  So instead I took my business to E-Bay and got exactly what I wanted, but in Vegas which is Awsome.


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## gr8tbfree (Dec 8, 2012)

vegasVIP said:


> Totally agree.  I contacted Judy first and put an offer on a 7k Orlando she had.  I was told the seller rejected and in her opinion it would not pass ROFR ($10,000 all in for the 7k yearly).  So instead I took my business to E-Bay and got exactly what I wanted, but in Vegas which is Awsome.


Thanks to everyone for the comments.  Looks like I should have done my homework.


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## SeattleKnitChick (May 24, 2015)

Hi All!

It's been a few years now but the original amount we financed with HGV is now paid off and I'd love some up to date advice on what to do!  

I have used some of my 2015 points (I borrowed 1340 for our vacation last year) but have 2160 left for 2015 and then don't get points again until 2017.  Will this be an issue with selling? Should I use them? Sell now? Wait?

What's the best way to find out what I could get for them and what I might be able to purchase with a maintenance fee that is no higher than what I currently have? From what you all said before e-bay was the best way to look?

Thanks in advance! I feel overwhelmed by figuring this out but also like I'm overpaying which also annoys me!


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## SmithOp (May 24, 2015)

SeattleKnitChick said:


> Hi All!
> 
> It's been a few years now but the original amount we financed with HGV is now paid off and I'd love some up to date advice on what to do!
> 
> ...


A 3500 EOY is not going to bring much of a sales price, maybe $1000 tops. 

 I have an eoy odd like this and am considering selling this fall so that the new owner can borrow from 2017 and be able to book a summer 2016 before having the first maint fee due. In other words, I think its best to sell HGVC 9 months before the summer season when club bookings open up.


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## Cyberc (May 24, 2015)

As smithop wrote it won't bring in much

Last year I bought a 3400 1br annual for 1000$ including closing - it should have been for hgvc at the boulevard but by mistake it was for Karen ave. 

I got a re-fund and now the broker tries to sell it again. I assume for the same price, but that is a guess. 

How much money are you looking to spend?

/michal


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## taterhed (May 24, 2015)

something to maybe consider;  I don't think Flamingo has ROFR...
Also, associate resorts do offer another alternative; with risks.

just suggestions.


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## tompalm (May 25, 2015)

We just did an owner'so update. Done in 20 minutes, but I did get $150 in Spa credits and some good info. They offered me 4800 points for $20,000, or 7000 points for $25,000. That didn't work for us, so the update was over.  But, I was told a couple years ago that they would give me my original purchase price back of $18,000 if I did an upgrade. The rep thought that I paid $18,000, or the cost that the original buyers paid, but that wasn't right. I bought resale for $7000, so Hilton wasn't willing to give me $18,000 and the deal never happened. But, if you paid Hilton $15,000 for your unit and they would sell you 7000 points for $25,000, the trade in might cost $10,000.  Bottom line, it will be really difficult to sell your 3500 points and by the time you pay closing cost, you end up with not much. 7000 points resale might cost $9000. So, the trade with Hilton might be an easy way out. But only do it if the numbers work.


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## SeattleKnitChick (May 25, 2015)

ugh this is disappointing.  Looks like we really got screwed!  From the looking I've done eBay and what you all are saying the MF for a similar number of points resale are between $700 and $900.  This would save us $100-$300 every other year. That's somewhat significant but it means we would have to sell ours and possibly come out with nothing after closing and then buy again.  Thus investing another few thousand dollars at least but possibly getting more points (there's one on eBay right now that is 5000 points and the MF is $932).  However I'm not sure that I want to pay an $932 annually right now.  Ugh.  I think I'm just stuck for the time being. 

Thanks for the thoughts everyone!


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## Jason245 (May 25, 2015)

SeattleKnitChick said:


> ugh this is disappointing.  Looks like we really got screwed!  From the looking I've done eBay and what you all are saying the MF for a similar number of points resale are between $700 and $900.  This would save us $100-$300 every other year. That's somewhat significant but it means we would have to sell ours and possibly come out with nothing after closing and then buy again.  Thus investing another few thousand dollars at least but possibly getting more points (there's one on eBay right now that is 5000 points and the MF is $932).  However I'm not sure that I want to pay an $932 annually right now.  Ugh.  I think I'm just stuck for the time being.
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts everyone!



Have you considered just selling what you have and not buying another until you have saved up enough cash to buy the right package resale?


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## tompalm (May 25, 2015)

SeattleKnitChick said:


> ugh this is disappointing.  Looks like we really got screwed!  From the looking I've done eBay and what you all are saying the MF for a similar number of points resale are between $700 and $900.  This would save us $100-$300 every other year. That's somewhat significant but it means we would have to sell ours and possibly come out with nothing after closing and then buy again.  Thus investing another few thousand dollars at least but possibly getting more points (there's one on eBay right now that is 5000 points and the MF is $932).  However I'm not sure that I want to pay an $932 annually right now.  Ugh.  I think I'm just stuck for the time being.
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts everyone!



Keep what you have and do open season when you can. That is booking a room 30 days prior to travel.  If you travel off season during the week, a studio is about $60.  During the high season, it might cost $80.  However, it cost more on Friday, Saturday and Sunday night.  But, in most cases, it is cheaper than a hotel room and nicer than a hotel room.


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