# Children & hot tubs



## suenmike32 (Mar 29, 2008)

I realize that I’ll probably get heat for this thread, however…there are probably others that feel the same. 

I just left one of our favorite resorts, Ocean Watch in Myrtle Beach. The weather probably could have been a bit warmer, however the resort looked great and the staff could not have been more helpful.

My problem is that there is NO hot tub for adults. 

Because it was a bit cooler…(but even on the warmer days), every hot tub had at least 10-15 children between the ages of 3 and 10years of age. 

Come on…there are 2 kiddie pools and two very nice larger pools, that are mostly dominated by children.. (and that’s OK)….but, I just don’t think 3-4-5 year olds belong in the hot tub for hours at a time.

Unfortunately…a lot of moms/dads let the hot-tubs do their baby sitting for them and I think its wrong!

Our GM at Ocean Pointe makes it very clear at every owners meeting that 1 of the hot tubs (at the Cobia pool) is for adults only. She also advises that prolonged exposure in the hot tub is not the healthiest thing for young children. 

It’s probably not very healthy for adults either. Please don’t tell me that that 4 year old is going to tell his mommy that he has to get out in the 103 degree water and go out in the 65 degree air... to use the potty. 

Sorry…call me a grouch…but let’s get a handle on this.

Mike


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## ondeadlin (Mar 29, 2008)

Mike, I think you're fighting a fundamental reality of timesharing -- it's marketed to families more than any other demographic. When the majority - at some resorts the vast majority - of customers are people with children, the property doesn't want to do anything to alienate that demographic.


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## 4BoxersGranny (Mar 29, 2008)

Mike,

I have to agree with you.  Children that young have no business being in a hot tub.  As far as I am concerned that were marketed for adults and that is who should use them.  Our small resort, that were our first timeshares bought in 1984, insists that children under 12 are not permitted in it.  Management does come out and makes sure that the parents understand the rules.  There are ALWAYS parents who let their children do as they wish with no parental guidance whatsoever.  I personally think they are very dangerous for small children.

That's my two cents worth.

Helen


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## sdtugger (Mar 29, 2008)

I can see both sides of this issue.  At the Westin hotel in Maui there is only one hot tub and it is part of the adult only pool.  As a result, if Mom and Dad come with any children under 16, they either take turns or don't ever use the hot tub.  I love the fact that I can take my children from 18 to 4 into the hot tub at the Marriott in Maui.  Having said that, my kids know that if they are alllowed in the hot tub that they are expected to act like an adult.  And, they only go in when Mom and Dad are in with them.  Never had any problems at all.  But, if there are two hot tubs at a resort, I can see making one adult only.


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## KCI (Mar 29, 2008)

We just spent a week at Surf Club in Aruba...not only were there kids in the hot tub but they had tubes, floats, rafts, etc...all from when they hopped out of the lazy river and jumped into the hot tub...they didn't even necessarily have a flotation device of their own...they just grabbed any that were laying around, even if they belonged to me....I personally do not believe children (under 16) should be allowed in a hot tub...


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## normab (Mar 29, 2008)

Frist, I agree that there is a safety issue for young children in a hot tub.  Too often I see parents bring them in to "swim" in the larger tubs, and they are not made for swimming.

In NJ, a teenager died went she swam underwater in a hot tub and her hair got sucked into the intake at the bottom of the tub.  I am not sure if this could occur in all tubs,  but it give me the shivers when I see kids swimming.

Second, I believe they should not be allowed in the tub without the parents, but no one ever enforces the rules--similar to the many other rules not enforced at Marriotts. 

My suggestion is that when you get a survey--you respond and include your comments.  That's what I generally do.


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## tlwmkw (Mar 29, 2008)

I think they should be allowed in but only if supervised.  Obviously an infant should not go in a hot tub- it is unhealthy for them.

I have been amazed at the number of unsupervised children at the pools at timeshares.  The Marriott resorts do not have life guards and it is all "swim at your own risk" so the parents ought to be there keeping an eye on the kids.  The parents should also teach their children how to act with good manners in these settings.


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## ffxjack (Mar 30, 2008)

*not just hot tubs...*



normab said:


> In NJ, a teenager died went she swam underwater in a hot tub and her hair got sucked into the intake at the bottom of the tub.  I am not sure if this could occur in all tubs,  but it give me the shivers when I see kids swimming.



I'm in no way advocating using the hot tub as a swimming pool, but, in terms of getting something sucked into the tub, there have been several cases of kids getting caught into the uncovered suctions of swimming pools which then shreds their intestines (I believe John Edwards won a huge lawsuit for this from the manufacturer and there's talk of laws for this).


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## ciscogizmo1 (Mar 30, 2008)

I agree... actually, I don't let my kids go in a hot tub at all.  I think, the only way to avoid it is to travel during non-school vacations.


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## johnmfaeth (Mar 30, 2008)

The biggest danger with hot tubs, for all ages is Hyperthermia, where the body's temperature rises dangerously. Children should never be unsupervised as this is a condition they may not perceive and death can result from prolonged body temperature increase.

Adults with heart conditions are warned to be very careful due to the systemic stress it produces.

The U of Cal recently issued a paper warning pregnant women, even early stage to be careful as animal studies have linked body temperature increases, even in early stage pregnancy to birth defects, even the equivalent of Spina Bifida in humans (malformed spinal column which does not have an intact spinal fluid enclosure - very bad)

While these are rare situations, staying in for more than 10 minutes or so, begins to increase risks is what the experts say. Especially in the 85-90 degree caribbean heat IMHO.


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## geekette (Mar 30, 2008)

John,

I'm glad there's finally a study.  Creepy tho the results may be, knowledge is power.  I would not have guessed spina bifida.

Our health club has a sign posting a warning for pregnant women, persons with heart conditions or on medications.  The warning goes on to strongly suggest limiting your time in the hot tub to 15 minutes for ALL PERSONS.  especially if it's at a normal temp (100-104F) this is a warning that should be heeded.  

I do not believe children belong in hot tubs of any temp, but I've never had a problem with a child sitting on the rim with their feet in while mom or dad soaks.  

Be sure to teach your children the buddy system, even when there is a lifeguard.  No one should ever swim alone and strangers don't count.


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## lprstn (Mar 30, 2008)

I have 4 kids and I don't allow them in the hot tub, why, cause its for adults and its really not safe for them.  However, to compromise with them I let them do the jacuzzi tub in my room or at home so they don't feel the need to hop into the hot tub with adults.


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## seatrout (Mar 30, 2008)

I think this is all lawyer talk.  

There are warning for everything with pregnant women/children so that the manufacture can cover their behind. Find a randomized well control study -- then I will believe. 

Agree that children should not be un-supervised Hot or cold tub. 

Same goes with risks of hypothermia with the pool being soo cold. Or any kids swiming in the pacific ocean.  We bring wet suit for cold water for the kids and not keeping them too long for the hot tub.  They have a right to enjoy it too.  Generally many of the pool are very cold and the kids need to get to the hot tub to warm up.


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## johnmfaeth (Mar 30, 2008)

Hi Seatrout,

Hyperthermia is more dangerous in that the body is less likely to feel the level of danger it is in. Ask any doctor about that.

I was talking about academic medical knowledge.

If you cook your child in an oven, should the manufacturer be blamed? Don't cook 'em at the Marriott either was my only point.

I am sure the manufacturer warnings are stern, but there is something to be concerned with, at a normal, common sense level IMHO.

And these are animal studies that U of Cal feels have scientificly valid conclusions.


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## barndweller (Mar 30, 2008)

My wish is for all resorts to not allow children under 12 in the hot tubs period. They are generally too rowdy, often unsupervised and we all know they don't leave the water for bathroom breaks.   No children should be allowed in any pool without a parent present. And it would be nice if the resorts that do not have an "adults only" pool would schedule posted adults only hours for their pool. Sure I love playing with my grandkids in the pool, but I'd appreciate some adult only time, too. Call me a grouchy old biddy if you like. And, yes, I avoid school vacations, too.


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## ricki999 (Mar 30, 2008)

Ok.  You grouchy old biddy.


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## seatrout (Mar 30, 2008)

John, I am from medical background and have an MD behind my name.   

Being roudy have nothing to do with age but your upbringing.

Anyway, the hotub should be enjoyed by all that have basic commonsense and manner IMHO.  Should we outlaw kissing, makingout, or thong bikini at the hot tub too ? 

It is generally very cold outside  when we bother with the hot tub. But we also don't stay there longer than 5-10 minutes.  The air temperature in houston and maybe LV can get hotter than the Hottub in the summer.  We also don't stay outside long.


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## beachdiva (Mar 30, 2008)

I have to agree here.  Ultimately, parents need to be more responsible and respectful of adult pools, adult hot tubs and the posted age requirements.  It's flat-out rude to bring little kids into adult-only hot tubs or pools.  And it's even more infuriating when the parents are right there letting the kids behave, like, well .  .kids   Unfortunately, this happens at hotels and other resorts, not just timeshares.  I have kids.  Love 'em and love spending time with them.  I also appreciate a little adult time when I can sneak it.  I don't appreciate rude parents who blatantly disregard the concept of adults only, especially when there's a big sign posted. I'll join the grouch old biddy club, I guess ;-0


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## davewasbaloo (Mar 30, 2008)

This is my take.  If it is a pool and tub for all ages, then my kids come with me supervised. If adults only, no kids.

At Son Antem, they have time rules and we abide by them.

I prefer NCV where there is an adult tub and a family tub - that's the best deal and we respect it.


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## Beverley (Mar 30, 2008)

I can not help but jump on this "band wagon" ... to.   

Children should always be supervised.  Unfortunately, there are always some parents that believe too strongly in the "village to raise a child" and they do not watch their children.  Therefore, rules that are enforced must be put into place.  This is not an issue related only to hot tubs, but it does seem most pronounced with hot tubs.

We have been at many Marriotts that post rules indicating that children are not allowed in the hot tub unless supervised by an adult.  We have also seen many parents comply and supervise their children and not allow them in there for "hours on end". They also don't let them do hand stands or use floatation aids, beach balls, jump in from the sides (this one really gives me the shivers - imagine that poor child and their parent if the child jumps in from the side and cracks open their head on the built in concrete seats).

We have also seen parents who actually supervise their children in the hot tub from 50 feet away and while looking in another direction.   When this happens, if the children are behaving appropriately, my husband and I just enjoy the hot tub with the children there.  If they are not behaving as they should, we seek out the pool attendant, or the GM if necessary, and report it and insist that the guests are spoken to.  

I would be inclined to contact the HOA of your resort and voice your concerns.  You are not alone.  Although hot tubs may not be really good for you, I do not see an inherent problem with children being in one.  I see the problem is more with unsupervised children and parents who may not realize that they and their children should not really be in the hot tub for more than 10 or 15 minutes at a time.

Beverley


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## seatrout (Mar 30, 2008)

It is always fun to have oposing opinion in this forum 

I have seen both young children/old children/ and adult misbehaving in the tub.  I would think the "teens" are the worst.

Although we abide by the Adult Only rule, when we travel (holiday time)-  the Adult only seem deserted.  While you can hardly find a chair during other time.  So it is often the need of the few overide the need of the many. I wonder if there will every be a "children only" pool or "loud zone"  It is only fair with ADA rule

I always wonder why does adult wait hours on end for the "its a small world" ride  at Disney and they  should make it a "children only" ride.  Or at least have a child <5yr with you.


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## barndweller (Mar 30, 2008)

I have never gotten steamed at children playing Marco Polo in a hot tub. I get mad at Mom & Dad who are "supervising" from their lanai, cocktail in hand.  I raised 4 children. I know what kids do when Mom & Dad aren't paying attention. Heck, I remember what I did as a 10 year old when I thought Mom wouldn't find out! What I get mad about is the adults that don't make any attempt to supervise their kids and set crummy examples by blatently ignoring the posted rules. I've never seen a 10 year old sneak down to the pool at 5am to save a lounge chair with a magazine or flip-flop. I've seen plenty of adults drinking beer from glass bottles at the pool. The kids are not the problem at all. It is the attitude of the parent that rules are bendable and that their children have a "right" to enjoy the pool & hot tub even if they are too loud, too rowdy and pee in the pool. No, they don't. Just as I don't have a right to smoke a cigarette outside a posted smoking area because it bothers other people, children do not have a right to make the pool or hot tub a children's playground. 

Climbing down off my soapbox now....


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## barndweller (Mar 30, 2008)

> I prefer NCV where there is an adult tub and a family tub - that's the best deal and we respect it.



I love the Marriotts, Sheratons & Diamond Resorts because of this. Most have adult only pools & hot tubs. Even when they don't have an "adults only" pool, there is usually other smaller pools on the property that don't have all the slides & stuff that the families prefer. Even when we travel with the grandkids, we gravitate to the small pools where we are able to enjoy playing with the grands without the noisy, boisterous unsupervised teens & young adults.


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## jerseyfinn (Mar 30, 2008)

Well, family marketing,  "majority rules",  & wierd science does not address the larger principle of respect towards others. This is an increasingly waning attribute in today's society of individualism.

I'm not trying to pick an argument here, but there are indeed *facts *about hot tubs & how they affect children. The science of it has to do with body area and how kids have proportionally less body area than adults. They lose and gain heat more quickly than adults. And yes this is dangerous for them. So a hot tub is a *dangerous place *for kids under 12. My source? I'm a nurse anesthetist and the same principles apply in the OR when we manage a kid's temperature. Of course on the adult end, we too have to be careful about the vasodilation effect of warm water, especially if you're drinking alcohol. Folks with cardiac conditions or impaired circulation should also be careful in a hot tub. No hubris, just physiology and science.

I think though the OP and others also refer to the _courtesy _ side of the equation. Lots of resorts today are reluctant to enforce posted rules and policy because these are the days of individualism and self-esteem. If you push back hard enough, they leave you alone. I don't see a solution to that other than how each individual decides to interact with others.

I do agree with Beverly that one should voice their opinion to their HOAs as well as letting the GM know what you think. I do not see this as a fifty-fifty proposition. It's about what is and what is not appropriate. That said, I'm very appreciative of parents who do mentor and supervise their kids, emphasizing respect and good public behavior. That's how we were raised, and how we raise our son. Works pretty well IMO.

Barry


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## seatrout (Mar 30, 2008)

jerseyfinn said:


> The science of it has to do with body area and how kids have proportionally less body area than adults. They lose and gain heat more quickly than adults. And yes this is dangerous for them. So a hot tub is a *dangerous place *for kids under 12.
> Barry



This would make an excellent simple science project for any kids.  Or medical student/resident and get it publish.

I would think that raising core body temp by more than 1 degree is not good for anyone.  A simple study is just to measure the core body tempurature of healthy human (size, age, wt, and BMI) and determine the time it take to achieve this.  I would only agree that individual with larger body fat can sit in the tub longer as they have more insulation. 

Do you know the time it takes to do this ??

Remember that century ago, we thought a lead apple fall the the earth faster until a guy named Newton proved otherwise.

Part of medicine is that we apply princple of the sick to the healthy-And the equation don't always apply until the science can be proven.  Kids can mount an imunne respond faster, get over a cold faster, and raise their core temperature to attack a virus faster.i


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## barndweller (Mar 30, 2008)

> I'm very appreciative of parents who do mentor and supervise their kids, emphasizing respect and good public behavior. That's how we were raised,



Yes indeed. We just returned from a month in Hawaii and enjoyed watching the children play in the pools and visited with them in the hot tub (with their parents). Great kids, every one. To be fair, I have rarely run into the problem of unsupervised children. But then, I choose to travel off season and prefer small independent resorts. I think the problem the OP presented exists more at the large resorts and is certainly more prevailent during school holidays.


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## dioxide45 (Mar 30, 2008)

barndweller said:


> we all know they don't leave the water for bathroom breaks.   .



What is the chlorine for?


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## suenmike32 (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm really not trying to fight any funamentals other than the lack of courtesy and common sense. 
We have no difficulty at Ocean Pointe, as it is pointed out every Monday at the owner's meeting, that at least one tub is designated as adults only. Ocean Pointe's Loss Prevention team monitors this and politely,  but firmly enforces it. I wish every T/S did exactly the same.
I love Ocean Watch, and when the Garden pools open (this week), I hope that they politely regulate the use of the hot tubs to those that the tubs were meant for.
The Garden pool is absolutely gorgeous and 2,3thru 12 year olds are going to love it.
Did you ever notice that they don't put pirate ships, floating dolphins etc in the hot tubs?  Its because they are not marketed as a children's areas. The pros/cons of health issues are a whole different ballgame. 
Mike
PS: to ricki999
OK OK...I am grouchy...and I'm old too!!!!
but quit calling me a biddy!!!!
what is that anyway??



ondeadlin said:


> Mike, I think you're fighting a fundamental reality of timesharing -- it's marketed to families more than any other demographic. When the majority - at some resorts the vast majority - of customers are people with children, the property doesn't want to do anything to alienate that demographic.


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## barndweller (Mar 31, 2008)

> PS: to ricki999
> OK OK...I am grouchy...and I'm old too!!!!
> but quit calling me a biddy!!!!



Mike, I think Ricki was responding to my post. You would be welcome to join the Old Biddy Club but I'm afraid you are ineligible. Only females can join. There is, however, the Old Coots Club for males. Membership is free.


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## geekette (Mar 31, 2008)

barndweller said:


> There is, however, the Old Coots Club for males. Membership is free.



But not complimentary


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## ricki999 (Mar 31, 2008)

Mike and Barndweller, no offense intended to either of you.  I also agree that "adult only" pools/hot tubs would be great at all Marriott resorts.  At Horizon's Orlando, there is a hot tub and pirate ship located in the same general area.


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## suenmike32 (Apr 2, 2008)

Ricki
no problem...I was only fooling too 
Mike


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## geekette (Apr 2, 2008)

I was also only teasing!


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## jlr10 (Apr 3, 2008)

seatrout said:


> with age but your upbringing.
> 
> Anyway, the hotub should be enjoyed by all that have basic commonsense and manner IMHO.  Should we outlaw kissing, makingout, or thong bikini at the hot tub too ?


Yes, this behavior should  not be in a *public *hot tub either IMHO.  These people should rent a room, well at least the kissing and making out ones. 

I'll be happy to join the old biddy club.  Where do I sign?


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## janapur (Apr 5, 2008)

Wouldn´t it be nice if all ts had adults only AND family friendly hot tubs? I must admit that my little ones prefer using the hot tub as their swimming pool on exceptionally cold days. Therefore, we have learned to bring plenty of water toys for the personal jacuzzis in the unit to avoid this.

_When I was young _. . . we did everything from cannonballs to kissing in the hot tub. Always unsupervised. There are more old biddies these days than you´d think, thank goodness.


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