# Gas cooktops GE monogram; GE profile



## sammy (Mar 3, 2010)

Anyone have experience with either the GE monogram gas cooktop or the GE profile?  I'll be getting 36" stainless but confused which to choose.  Online searches seem to be slim, thou I'm not that good at them  .  I only found comments that they are fire hazards!  Not much else, thou.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 3, 2010)

How much do you like to cook? And are you in your "forever" kitchen? 

If the answer is "Cooking is my life, I want to quit my job and work in a restaurant," then buy a better cooktop.

I have a GE Profile. Like all consumer-grade cooktops, it doesn't throw out nearly enough BTUs to properly sear. The "griddle" is a waste of space, time and money. And forget trying to stir-fry with the paltry flame. It's adequate for boiling liquids, and that's about it. (EDIT -- Why do I have it? It's part of the cheap suite of contractor appliances that came with the house.)

Since I can't wait to leave my house, "barely adequate" isn't enough to make me drive it to the scrap heap and buy a Wolf, Vulcan, Bertazzoni or Thermador. 

I'm leaving this functional but underpowered piece of junk with the house. When I sell it* and move to the Pacific coast, I'll likely be cooking on a Vulcan french top. I do have a good cooktop -- outside. I'll take that with me when I go.


* Referred to in this household as "The Happiest Day of Our Lives." My wife and I use that phrase as code for the day we leave this hell hole. Example: "How was your day today?" "Just one day closer to the Happiest Day of Our Lives."


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## Passepartout (Mar 3, 2010)

It depends on how serious you are about your cooking. Look at the BTU output of the burners. More is better. You don't want to reach over them to adjust a knob. Are they easy to clean around? Grates go into the dishwasher? Check reviews.

We have a Viking dual fuel range here, so I can't specifically comment on GE, though I did look at them when we were doing our kitchen remodel.

I'm sure you will be happy with any pro-look gas cooktop, especially if you've been using a 'household' electric one.

Jim Ricks


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## joestein (Mar 3, 2010)

I have had a GE Profile range and over the range microwave for about 5 years.  I have been very disappointed with the appliances.  

The GE burners have trouble lighting.  There is one burner I use a lighter to ignite, even though GE was over twice to "replace the igniter".  On top of that I have already had to replace the ignition in the stove.  As for the microwave, there is a short that pops up in the keyboard that makes the microwave unusuable.  The solution is to unplug it for a while and then plug it back in.  This is a problem that many people seem to encounter.

I also have a GE fridge, which works fine, but is SO LOUD.  All my appliances are GE's top of the line.

In the future, I will not buy GE appliances.

Joe


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## ScoopKona (Mar 3, 2010)

joestein said:


> The GE burners have trouble lighting.  There is one burner I use a lighter to ignite, even though GE was over twice to "replace the igniter".  On top of that I have already had to replace the ignition in the stove.  As for the microwave, there is a short that pops up in the keyboard that makes the microwave unusuable.  The solution is to unplug it for a while and then plug it back in.  This is a problem that many people seem to encounter.



And this is the same company that builds nuclear reactors.... :annoyed:


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## Passepartout (Mar 3, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> And this is the same company that builds nuclear reactors.... :annoyed:



A little off topic, but I believe Westinghouse builds the Navy's reactors, and no nuke power plants have been built here in dozens of years. GE does, however build a helluva lot of jet engines.

But back to the item at hand. One commonly overlooked item that effects happiness with ANY gas cooking appliance is the size of the gas line coming into it. We have a full 1" pipe feeding the Viking. the commonly used 1/2" copper tube won't feed enough gas to get rated BTUs from any of 'em.

Jim Ricks


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## Kal (Mar 3, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> ...And forget trying to stir-fry with the paltry flame. It's adequate for boiling liquids, and that's about it...


 
The problem could very well be your Wok. The original wok is designed for heat transfer on the bottom and mostly along the sides of the unit. A traditional wok design therefore will not properly function on a residential stove top burner because there is no way to apply heat directly to the sides.

Current technology has changed the wok design to a much flatter bottom to allow good heat transfer. This new design has been verified with comparative IR temperature measurements to the original design and the heat transfer is very comparable.

I recently purchased a Cuisinart "Green" wok and the results are incredible!! No more soggy, boiled stir-fry.


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## Kal (Mar 3, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> A little off topic, but I believe Westinghouse builds the Navy's reactors...
> Jim Ricks


 
Ahhh yes, recalling my days with good ole' CIRCLE BAR W !! :whoopie:


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## ScoopKona (Mar 3, 2010)

Kal said:


> The problem could very well be your Wok. The original wok is designed for heat transfer on the bottom and mostly along the sides of the unit. A traditional wok design therefore will not properly function on a residential stove top burner because there is no way to apply heat directly to the sides.



I wok on a 40,000 BTU infrared burner. It gets the job done. I like the shape and design of the traditional steel wok. My outdoor kitchen is where I do most of my work. In the summer, it doesn't make any sense to cook inside. My AC bills are high enough as it is.

One other thing -- as mentioned, the diameter of the gas pipe is super important (mine is only 3/4" -- I wish I had a 1" pipe). But the appliances also have to have the same diameter. Choking a 1" pipe down to a 1/2" appliance is the same as having a 1/2" pipe. 

All that being said, if I can convince just one person NOT to buy GE consumer appliances, I feel I have done the human race a great service. 

GE Fridge: Ice maker flooded the kitchen -- twice.
GE Microwave: Control panel crapped out
GE Stove: Anemic piece of junk
GE Dishwasher: No problems yet, but it's only a matter of time. I never leave it unattended, because WHEN that hunk of junk floods the kitchen, I want to be there to clean it up, STAT.


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## laurac260 (Mar 3, 2010)

joestein said:


> I have had a GE Profile range and over the range microwave for about 5 years.  I have been very disappointed with the appliances.
> 
> The GE burners have trouble lighting.  There is one burner I use a lighter to ignite, even though GE was over twice to "replace the igniter".  On top of that I have already had to replace the ignition in the stove.  As for the microwave, there is a short that pops up in the keyboard that makes the microwave unusuable.  The solution is to unplug it for a while and then plug it back in.  This is a problem that many people seem to encounter.
> 
> ...



I have a GE profile Dual Fuel oven/cooktop (gas cooktop, electric oven).  It used to be a special order item, but I am starting to see them more and more on the appliance floors.  I cook ALOT, and absolutely love mine.  The grill that covers the burners comes in two pieces, and together it completely covers the entire cooktop.   The largest, main burner is positioned higher than the other three and that is wear I do my Wok cooking, and also wear my big pots go.  It is more than adequate for both types of cooking.  The two left burners are perfect in that they are exactly the same size, so I can fit a flat griddle across both burners  and get even cooking all the way across.  My back right burner is a saute burner, much smaller than the other 3.  I have had absolutely no problems with the appliance and even after 2 1/2 years of constant use, I never tire of firing it up and cooking anything on it!


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## Twinkstarr (Mar 3, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> I wok on a 40,000 BTU infrared burner. It gets the job done. I like the shape and design of the traditional steel wok. My outdoor kitchen is where I do most of my work. In the summer, it doesn't make any sense to cook inside. My AC bills are high enough as it is.
> 
> One other thing -- as mentioned, the diameter of the gas pipe is super important (mine is only 3/4" -- I wish I had a 1" pipe). But the appliances also have to have the same diameter. Choking a 1" pipe down to a 1/2" appliance is the same as having a 1/2" pipe.
> 
> ...



My repairman's comments on GE, don't buy it.


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## spirits (Mar 3, 2010)

*Look at the electronics*

When I was looking for applicances a few years ago I did a lot of looking and was not happy with the quality of many of them.  The outsourcing movement has brought down a lot of quality that went into American products decades ago.  An appliance repair man told me to stay away from a lot of stovetops with complicated motherboards.  Finally went with a Bosch gas stove because of the simple design and it has served us well. Just MHO


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## hvacrsteve (Mar 3, 2010)

I have all GE Profile, I would not buy them again, I have spent over $1800.00 in repairs in 3 years!
Dishwasher board,  refrigerator board,selenoid,fan,defost kit,door control.


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## Passepartout (Mar 3, 2010)

spirits said:


> The outsourcing movement has brought down a lot of quality that went into American products decades ago.  An appliance repair man told me to stay away from a lot of stovetops with complicated motherboards.



You want quality, simplicity, and American made? Get a Viking. Built in Mississippi. Not the fanciest, but powerful and attractive. Just MHO.

Jim Ricks


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## Elan (Mar 3, 2010)

We have a full suite of GE Profile appliances (like Scoop -- contractor standard package), and haven't had a problem with any of them since the house was built in 2001.  My big bitch with the gas stove, however, is that about 70% of the range of the burner knobs equates to a flame that I could snuff out with a healthy sneeze, and 2/3 of the remaining 30% is pretty much full blast.  So there's roughly 10% of the knob range that covers the portion of the heat spectrum from "might reach a simmer, eventually, some day" to "blow torch". Although the appliances have been pretty decent, if (when) I build again I'm going to be a lot more selective about what appliances are installed.


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## laurac260 (Mar 3, 2010)

Elan said:


> We have a full suite of GE Profile appliances (like Scoop -- contractor standard package), and haven't had a problem with any of them since the house was built in 2001.  My big bitch with the gas stove, however, is that about 70% of the range of the burner knobs equates to a flame that I could snuff out with a healthy sneeze, and 2/3 of the remaining 30% is pretty much full blast.  So there's roughly 10% of the knob range that covers the portion of the heat spectrum from "might reach a simmer, eventually, some day" to "blow torch". Although the appliances have been pretty decent, if (when) I build again I'm going to be a lot more selective about what appliances are installed.



In Feb 2004 we bought a model home in Florida (not the one we currently live in), with all contractor grade appliances.  I don't remember the brand, but I would assume they were all GE.  The dishwasher was very loud, and I told my husband that as soon as it gave us the first sign of problems, I was going to replace it.  I walked by it every day and willed it to fail.  One day the detergent dispenser did not open, and I said "well, there it is!  It's outa here!"  When I went shopping for a new one at Lowe's, I first looked for the dishwasher that was in my home, to compare price and style.  The CHEAPEST dishwasher I found at Lowe's was $120, and it was an UPGRADE from the one we had.  I was later told that the "contractor grade" dishwasher cost about $60.  So, yes, they are cheap pieces of junk.


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## NWL (Mar 3, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> You want quality, simplicity, and American made? Get a Viking. Built in Mississippi. Not the fanciest, but powerful and attractive. Just MHO.
> 
> Jim Ricks



Ditto!  We've had ours for 12 years and it's still going strong.  Better grade of stainless, too, than most consumer grade stainless.

Cheers!


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## shagnut (Mar 3, 2010)

As many of you remember I used to work at Sears in appliances. I have always hate anything GE but sold a ton of it.  I always told my customers if they were buying gas to get the bigger btu's. I also hate gas, altho I know it is save I've always been scared of it.  

My stove was giving out so I was on the lookout for a good deal. Every year they take the stoves that were new in a box but not sold when the new models came out and put them on the floor with a extremely low prices to get rid of them. I got a GE smooth top electric that went for $800 for $349 (with my discount) Altho I do not usually like GE appliances I have to admit I like my stove.  They have always been known for their stoves (electric) 

I figure at that price if it lasts a few years I've got my money from it. The oven is huge and I have a double eye that I use a lot. It also cools off and gets hotter quicker than my old stove but of course I had one of the first smooth top stoves made.  

shaggy


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## sammy (Mar 4, 2010)

*Wow! So what instead?  Any Monogram experience?*

It seems pretty much the concensus that GE Profile stinks - inlcuding microwave, dishwasher, wall oven, frig.  What else to do?  I already have the cabinets ordered for a 36" cooktop and a 30" double wall oven.  I'm not the all-has-to-match type so I don't need the same brands across the board.

I would classify myself as love to cook but don't get to do much.  About 1-2x a month I'll try to do a something that involves 'real' cooking; the rest of the time any cooktop will suffice.

I am stuck with the GE microwave, reluctantly, but its the only one that fits over a 36" cooktop and I do not have the space to put it elsewhere.  Done deal.

All (or most) dishwashers fit the same space so I can choose anything, but which to get?  Quiet, cleans and dries!, pack-if-full, delay start, and versatile shelves are the what I need.  Hundreds of buttons - useless.

Refrig - I want stainless and bottom freezer - suggestions?

Double Wall Oven - electric - suggestions?  

And, back to the 36" cooktop   - any experience with the GE Monogram?  Suggestions that are going to fit the cooktop bill without being too expensive?  

Thanks!


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## neash (Mar 4, 2010)

We remodeled our kitchen last year, and I spent a lot of time researching stove tops. My criteria was high BTU, 36 " , pro type cooktop. I narrowed it down to GE Monogram, Viking, Thermador, Wolfe, and Capital Cooking. GE was out because it was GE, Viking was out because I read a lot of negative reviews. Wolfe was too expensive, and Thermador did not have the kind of range top I was looking for. Capital Cooking was a less known company based in southern CA, got great reviews, made in USA. I even spoke to the owner himself, and then bought the 36" 6 burner range top. I am very happy with the purchase. The cooktop combined with an excellent venting hood has been the best decision I made for our kitchen.


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## laurac260 (Mar 4, 2010)

sammy said:


> It seems pretty much the concensus that GE Profile stinks - inlcuding microwave, dishwasher, wall oven, frig.  What else to do?  I already have the cabinets ordered for a 36" cooktop and a 30" double wall oven.  I'm not the all-has-to-match type so I don't need the same brands across the board.
> 
> I would classify myself as love to cook but don't get to do much.  About 1-2x a month I'll try to do a something that involves 'real' cooking; the rest of the time any cooktop will suffice.
> 
> ...



well, others may say that GE sucks.  As I mentioned in my post, the one I have is awesome (Ge profile dual fuel).  The cooktop is great, and the electric oven works as conventional or convection, and also as a proofer.   And like I said I cook alot.  I use my stovetop 1-3 times a day, everyday.     I do not like ceramic tops at all.  Talk about sucking.  Personally I prefer to cook with gas only.  With a ceramic top, you HAVE to have top of the line pots and pans.   I tried to explain this to my mom before she got her ceramic top.  A few days later she called to tell me that her old stock pot vibrated across the ceramic top while cooking.  That's when she realized what I was talking about, that only really GOOD, perfectly flat bottom pans work on a ceramic top.

Dishwashers....I refuse to own anything without a heating element in the bottom for my main dishwasher.  We use alot of plastic (kids stuff, plastic storing containers), and without the heating element in the bottom plastic does not dry.  We've been most happy with our kitchenaid.  Very quiet, lots of space, and it has a delay start which I love.  I would still like to get a drawer dishwasher for pots and pans, as my pieces are rather big.  Drawer dishwashers don't have heating elements, but they work with glass and metal stuff.

As far as a microwave, I have not owned a standard microwave in years.  I have the GE advantium, microwave/oven/speedcook.  It's awesome having a second oven when you need it, but not having all the space that a double oven takes up when you don't.

As far as a refrigerator, we have the Samsung french door design with the lower pullout freezer.  Being able to open two doors and seeing all the contents of the fridge with no bar or spacer in the middle, is awesome.  In the beginning Samsung had some serious issues with the icemaker.  Very long story, but I think it has been rectified in newer models.  Basically it was a programming problem with the machine spitting out too much water, and the icecubes getting stuck because they were too big.  They recitified the issue in our unit as well as the newer models.  

All stainless.  Love my kitchen!

I wanted to add that any dishwasher I would ever own MUST have a sanitize option.  Many do not have this feature, and with the requirements that dishwashers  use of much less water than they used to, most dishwashers don't really CLEAN your dishes.


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## Twinkstarr (Mar 4, 2010)

sammy said:


> It seems pretty much the concensus that GE Profile stinks - inlcuding microwave, dishwasher, wall oven, frig.  What else to do?  I already have the cabinets ordered for a 36" cooktop and a 30" double wall oven.  I'm not the all-has-to-match type so I don't need the same brands across the board.
> 
> I would classify myself as love to cook but don't get to do much.  About 1-2x a month I'll try to do a something that involves 'real' cooking; the rest of the time any cooktop will suffice.
> 
> ...



I have a GE Monogram built in freezer on the bottom frig. Have had it for 8 yrs and no problem with it.

I have a Fisher-Paykel dishdrawer which is 9 yrs old, no problem with that either. Though if I needed to replace it I think I might go with a Bosch.


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## Elan (Mar 4, 2010)

My GE appliances haven't sucked in terms of relaibility.  As I mentioned, I have had a GE Profile stove, refrigerator, dishwasher and uWave in our current house since late 2001, and haven't had issues with any of them.  That's a combined 34 appliance years without any problems, which is pretty good, in my book.  There are definitely features that could be enhanced in the GE appliances, but they work well overall.

  One thing to keep in mind is that not all high end appliances are great, either.  My brother had to replace the compressor in his ultra-high end SubZero refrigerator *twice* in a span of about 5 years.  That'd piss me off...............


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## ScoopKona (Mar 4, 2010)

One thing I didn't mention about my peeve with GE* -- there are 30 houses in our little community. All of them have the same GE appliances. ALL THE GE APPLIANCES HAVE HAD THE SAME EXACT PROBLEMS. Flooded kitchens, sparks coming out of the microwave, etc. AND ALL OF THE PROBLEMS HAVE OCCURRED AROUND THE SAME TIME. "You've been here six months. Time for your GE refrigerator's ice maker solenoid to freeze in the open position and flood the kitchen."

_That_ is what I call horrible quality. 

*Although I know I've mentioned it before in a thread about GE refrigerators.


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## laurac260 (Mar 4, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> One thing I didn't mention about my peeve with GE* -- there are 30 houses in our little community. All of them have the same GE appliances. ALL THE GE APPLIANCES HAVE HAD THE SAME EXACT PROBLEMS. Flooded kitchens, sparks coming out of the microwave, etc. AND ALL OF THE PROBLEMS HAVE OCCURRED AROUND THE SAME TIME. "You've been here six months. Time for your GE refrigerator's ice maker solenoid to freeze in the open position and flood the kitchen."
> 
> _That_ is what I call horrible quality.
> 
> *Although I know I've mentioned it before in a thread about GE refrigerators.



Yep, contractor's grade appliances are lousy.  They shouldn't even be allowed to be put in homes, but unfortunately there is a market for it.  When a builder can get a dishwasher for 60$, it's hard to blame them.  I have asked in the past for a house we were building to come with no appliances, and just give us the credit, but were told no, they could not do that.   GE seems to have cornered the market on contractor grade appliances.  I don't think though that it is a fair comparison  that because everyone in your neighborhood has sucky appliances that all GE appliances must be bad. They all have contractor grade appliances.   You can't buy contractors grade appliances off the floor in many places.  They aren't typically marketed to the average consumer.  Which means that even the bottom of the barrel dishwasher you find at Lowe's is better quality than what your builder put in your home.  I certainly found that to be true.  When we moved in our house   2 1/2 years ago, the house was 2 years old.  The existing owner still had all the original contractor's grade appliances.  The dishwasher leaked and was very noisy.  The refrigerator is now our garage fridge, and the freezer stops working from time to time for no apparent reason.  The stove?  Well, I didn't give it a chance to wait for it to fail, I don't like gas ovens (cooktops yes, ovens, no), so it was outa there right from the start.   Contractor's grade is junk.  And since it all seems to be GE, that's where most of the bad rep comes from IMO.  I don't think the company is doing itself any favors, but I guess they make it up in volume so they don't seem to care.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 4, 2010)

OP asked about GE Profile appliances.

I have myself and 29 neighbors who have GE Profile appliances and Jeffrey Immelt's telephone number programmed into our phones. (Although many of my neighbors are old and still ask for Jack Welch.)


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## laurac260 (Mar 4, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> OP asked about GE Profile appliances.
> 
> I have myself and 29 neighbors who have GE Profile appliances and Jeffrey Immelt's telephone number programmed into our phones. (Although many of my neighbors are old and still ask for Jack Welch.)



As much as you seem bent on ridding the world of GE appliances, one complaint at a time, I beg to differ with you.  You cannot lump every GE appliance into one category.  A quick search on GE's own website shows 74 different GE Profile ranges available, with prices ranging from $1249 to $2799. Which leads me to this conclusion:  #1 Not all GE profile ranges are created equal.  #2, unless you are in pretty ritzy community I would be shocked if your builder put the bottom end (according to GE's own website) GE PROFILE $1249 range in each and every home in the neighborhood you live in.  $1249 just for an oven???  I have yet to see a builder that would fork out that kind of cash for a new build home.  Your equipment may SAY Profile, but what's in your homes is still contractor grade.   

The OP can make their own conclusions, and probably already has.  I still stand by MY GE profile dual fuel oven as a quality product that can handle anything I throw at it.  There's no "heat and serve" going on here.  I COOK, have been the chief cook in every home I've lived in, cooking from scratch for 34 years (yep, literally since I was NINE years old!), and my cooktop/oven BETTER be able to keep up with me or it's outta here.  Believe me, this one is a workhorse.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 4, 2010)

After reading your replies, I decided to check the model number and see if it's some "low-rent" range with "Profile" silkscreened onto it to make me feel warm and fuzzy.

The model is PGB916DEM

Here's a website selling it for $1,475: https://www.homeeverything.com/web/sitefiles/product-5747/PGB916DEM.html


It has a 1/2" gas fitting, which means I'm not getting as many BTUs as I could. When I need high heat, I go outside and fire up my infrared burner.

The other appliances are in the same GE line and price-point -- mid-range junk with horrible circuitry. All of them are made in a country with notoriously-bad quality control.

I have an easy litmus test for cooktops:

1) Pull out the crumb tray under the burners.

2) If there is no crumb tray under the burners, the range is "consumer grade" and therefore substandard.

As said, some happy day I'll leave Las Vegas. I'll turn over these appliances to the new owners, and move to Oregon and buy Vulcan.


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## laurac260 (Mar 4, 2010)

*Here's this year's version of what I own*

http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SpecPage&Sku=P2S975SEPSS

The "crumb catcher" is all one piece, across the entire surface of the cooktop.

We seem to have a similar product.  Not sure why I am perfectly happy and think mine is wonderful, and you think yours is junk??


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## Kal (Mar 4, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> As much as you seem bent on ridding the world of GE appliances, one complaint at a time, I beg to differ with you. You cannot lump every GE appliance into one category...


 
When ever I hear someone say "all", "every time" or "none" and "never" it really casts a shadow on the conversation. Such a "100% world" doesn't exist. In this case, I'm sure there is a range of quality in almost every product line. The low end items fill a market niche and likewise do the high-end items.

For me, I've owned a GE Profile dishwasher for a number of years. I started out looking for a Bosch but upon careful review and analysis the GE Profile was head and shoulders superior. I've never had a single problem with the unit and there's not a hint of any possible defect. Granted, this is not a cheap contractor model so I can only guess those units are low-end as advertised.

I also have a Thermador cook top which is a high-end unit. I just replaced a simple knob and that cost more than $40. I can't imagine what it would cost if an important part fails.

When you own junk, you always have the option of replacement. If it lasts more than 2-3 years, you're playing on house money.  For the price of a knob I could wheel in a junker stove top.


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## sammy (Mar 4, 2010)

For those of you looking for the Bosch dishwasher.  Two of my sisters have one (one came with house, the other bought based on the green aspect).  They both HATE because it simply does not dry dishes. At all.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 5, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SpecPage&Sku=P2S975SEPSS
> 
> The "crumb catcher" is all one piece, across the entire surface of the cooktop.
> 
> We seem to have a similar product.  Not sure why I am perfectly happy and think mine is wonderful, and you think yours is junk??





I cook often on US Range, Vulcan and Standard. When you've had "great," "good" is no longer good enough. I've also cooked on Wolf, Bertazzoni and Viking.

My GE is underpowered. I can't speak for yours. But mine is underpowered. It is impossible to get a good sear with it -- even with copper pans. If I throw mushrooms into a wok, I don't stir fry, I steam. There simply isn't enough heat to do a decent sauté. Steamed veg has its place. But when I want to sauté, I want to _sauté_. So I do so outside, where I have 250,000 BTUs at my disposal.

My GE range has a useless griddle feature. The center flame is a joke. Compare that to the french top* I do a lot of work on -- there is no comparison. I wouldn't even cook a tortilla on the GE griddle. 

Add to that, I have a GE Profile 'fridge that has flooded the kitchen. Twice. And a Profile microwave that began smoking from the circuit board. 

Now add to that, I have 30 neighbors who all have the same stuff, who have also had the same problems. Not just one or two. All of them.  All with the same problems -- refrigerators that fill the freezer compartment with water until it bursts open and microwave ovens that are fire hazards. 

To be fair, most of them would tell you their range is OK. But I'll bet they don't try to flash sear 3" thick tuna on it.

*EDIT -- I don't actually cook anything on a french top. I put a griddle on it and then cook. The french top is too hot to cook anything directly.


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## laurac260 (Mar 5, 2010)

sammy said:


> For those of you looking for the Bosch dishwasher.  Two of my sisters have one (one came with house, the other bought based on the green aspect).  They both HATE because it simply does not dry dishes. At all.



The Bosch dishwasher does not have heat coils.  It will not dry plastic, ever.  It will dry glass and metal however.

Tell your sisters to do the following.  BEFORE they start their dishwasher, run the water in the sink to it's hottest, then start the dishwasher.  This will ensure that the dishwasher is pulling the hottest water possible.  In fact, everyone should do this before they start their dishwasher (long explanation as to why, if you are interested I will post it),  Dishwashers require dishes to be washed at their hottest, in order to achieve ultimate drying .  For Bosch this is even more important, as all of the drying is done by the HEAT that builds up within the unit during the wash cycle.   Tell them to set the washing settings at their hottest.  If there is a sanitize option, or a hot wash option, whatever, use all of that.  And if they can, load their glass and or metal separate from the plastic.   I had a Bosch for a short while, I sent it back and got a kitchenaid.  I sent it back specifically because of this.  With small kids, a good portion of the stuff I wash everyday is plastic.    I would not have bought it had I known ahead of time.   I am tempted to get a drawer dishwasher though, because there are days when I could use just a bit more space for those big pots and pans.  Those don't have heating elements either, but that's ok, because I would use it for the pots and pans, or a big load of glass dishes.


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## laurac260 (Mar 5, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> I cook often on US Range, Vulcan and Standard. When you've had "great," "good" is no longer good enough. I've also cooked on Wolf, Bertazzoni and Viking.
> 
> My GE is underpowered. I can't speak for yours. But mine is underpowered. It is impossible to get a good sear with it -- even with copper pans. If I throw mushrooms into a wok, I don't stir fry, I steam. There simply isn't enough heat to do a decent sauté. Steamed veg has its place. But when I want to sauté, I want to _sauté_. So I do so outside, where I have 250,000 BTUs at my disposal.
> 
> ...



Ok, this is my last post on this subject.  I can't speak to the the other GE appliances, because I don't own those.  But the comparison with the stove, it's like sitting here reading 10 posts on why you think the Ford Mustang is not a "sports car", and then we find out all you own are Ferrari's.  Probably 90% of the population have never even HEARD of the stuff you own, much less could own one themselves.  I don't think the OP was looking for a pissing contest.  They were looking for honest opinions.  A Mustang isn't a "sports car" compared to a Ferrari, and the GE range you have IS substandard, compared to what you have at your disposal at your outside kitchen.  For MOST people, they would look at your stove and only be able to dream of being able to have it in their home.  Surely if you take a step back into the real world (the one where most people reside in), you can concede that you DO have a nice range in your home, even if it's not up to YOUR standards.


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## Kal (Mar 5, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> Ok, this is my last post on this subject....


 
If the poster and his neighbors have contractor grade appliances it's easy to agree that stuff is junk.  The analogy of junk at the lowest end of the line equating to junk at the top of the line is all speculation.  The option of getting rid of the junk is always available.

Maybe you should consider setting up a Binford 5000 camp stove in your back yard.  Sweeeeeeet!


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## ScoopKona (Mar 5, 2010)

Kal said:


> If the poster and his neighbors have contractor grade appliances it's easy to agree that stuff is junk.  The analogy of junk at the lowest end of the line equating to junk at the top of the line is all speculation.  The option of getting rid of the junk is always available.



That's my issue with GE Profile -- at least the batch of GE Profiles that shipped to this neighborhood from East Tortilla (it's sister city is East Cupcake), Mexico, in 2007.

None of this stuff is supposedly "contractor grade." (I hate that term, because it implies that contractors are trying to kill their customers with shoddy materials that spontaneously burst into flame.) I can go online and buy my exact range for $1,475, plus shipping. The refrigerator is another $1,700. I don't know what the microwave and dishwasher are going for. But it's probably not pocket change. People are paying good money for this suite of appliances. And I don't think they're getting their money's worth. Others may disagree, and that's fine. 

My main issue with the suite is the ice maker in the GE refrigerator. You know, the one that flooded my kitchen. Twice. (It has needed repairs four times in three years). If you search this BBS, you will find an old thread where CathyB ended up having to lawyer up to try and get GE to pay the $10,000 in damages. Same 'fridge I have. My neighbors and I were considering a class-action suit. But there really weren't enough of us to make it worth it. (So said the neighborhood attorney.)

I don't think insisting that products not burn my house down, or cause a flood is asking too much. If you think that's elitism, so noted.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 5, 2010)

laurac260 said:


> For MOST people, they would look at your stove and only be able to dream of being able to have it in their home.  Surely if you take a step back into the real world (the one where most people reside in), you can concede that you DO have a nice range in your home, even if it's not up to YOUR standards.



The outside kitchen is mostly Kitchenaid products. Hardly an esoteric brand. Because I built everything myself, the total cost was around $2,500 -- $700 of which was for a plumber to hook the gas line up. (I could DIY that, but it would void my homeowner's policy.) I got a ripping deal on the grill and the infrared burner, true. But ripping deals are out there. 

Next time I'm in the market for appliances, I will go to the restaurant supply store. I can pick up a used Vulcan in excellent shape for less than the cost of either of our new GE Profiles. No need to spend thousands at the Snobby Yuppie kitchen supply house.

One of my mantras in life (I have several) is "Don't be a consumer." Of course, I have to consume food and water. But I try to buy things once whenever possible. There's a certain sense of pride in having tools and equipment that will last three or four lifetimes. There is a higher initial cash outlay, but the actual cost is far less when buying quality -- at least that's been my experience.

As for not knowing 90% of the equipment. That simply isn't true. More than one person here has Viking in their home. So your sports car analogy only works if 90% of the people don't know what a "Ferrari" is. I think it should be a given that anyone asking for advice on kitchen appliances at least know Viking and Wolf -- they're more consumer oriented than commercial. And if my advice on ranges causes anyone to Google the others and go, "Wow, I am getting me one of these!" then I think that's probably a positive experience all around...


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## sammy (Mar 5, 2010)

As the OP, I hope we can get off the GE Profile battle so perhaps I can get some input on other options that are not in the super expensive caregory (GE Profiles are no where near the bottom of the barrel, in terms of price, anyway ScoopLV  ).

How about KitchenAid? You mention that outside.  Are their inside appliances any good?  And speaking of KitchenAid, I thought they were made by someone else anyway?  I hope not GE!  

Amana? Whirlpool? 

And what about that GE Monogram?  Am I to rule that out because of the GE Profiles?  

Consumer Reports does rate GE as the lowest repair appliances out there.  If your neighborhood story (and I do NOT doubt it, for sure) was a repetitive one they couldn't possibly be rated the highest.  

Anyway, any other input?


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## ScoopKona (Mar 5, 2010)

sammy said:


> How about KitchenAid? You mention that outside.  Are their inside appliances any good?  And speaking of KitchenAid, I thought they were made by someone else anyway?  I hope not GE!



Their outdoor grills are made by Nexgrill, and they're fine. Basically Kitchenaid slaps their name (and a decent warranty) onto them. Their indoor stuff? No idea.

If you have a restaurant supply store in your area, that's where I'd go for a range. Restaurant grills don't have a lot of electronics -- so timers, LED display and the like are lacking -- but they're built like tanks and will last a lifetime. It will also cost a lot less than heading to Williams Sonoma, or Sur la Table*, or (egad) a kitchen designer.

As you've probably guessed, two kitchen floodings and four repairs in three years have caused me to distrust anything that has a GE label. You bet I'm biased in that regard, but I think I have ample reason to be biased.

I'm also no fan of Consumer Reports, because they seem to take all the features, add them together, divide by price, and anoint one as a "best buy." They tend to only rate "consumer grade" stuff. And that's fine for most people. But I would prefer it if they'd include some higher-end equipment in their reviews. (It's kind of like reviewing stereo systems and not inviting McIntosh to the party -- they're not the end all and be all of audio, but they certainly deserve a seat at the table.)

If you're really into cooking, find a cooking club or the culinary arm of a community college and ask around. Even better, grab a sturdy pan and go cook stuff at friends and relatives houses. Or, go out to eat a few times and ask your server if you can see the kitchen -- you'll see the same stuff over and over when people rely on their equipment to make a living.

If you want my opinion: A six burner Vulcan or Viking. But I'm not a serious baker. A serious baker would insist on dual fuel because electric is more consistent than gas when it comes to ovens. That often means Wolf, but there are a lot of choices in the dual fuel department.

Or just run the numbers. There is no substitute for BTUs. You'll need to know how fat your gas pipe is. Find several cooktops that don't need to be stepped up or down. Then find the most BTUs for the money. 

* EDIT - My local Williams Sonoma sells egregiously overpriced cooktops. No idea about Sur la Table. I don't really shop at either. I don't like paying three to 10 times more for the same stuff I can get at restaurant supply stores (or the internet).


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## shagnut (Mar 5, 2010)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you shouldn't have a microwave hood over a powerful gas cooktop. It doesn't have enough pull plus the microwave can mess up with all the steam . Buy an extended warranty on the microwave if you do deceide to go ahead and put it over the gas cooktop.  You will thank me later.   Check with your contractor.  shaggy


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## Passepartout (Mar 5, 2010)

shagnut said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you shouldn't have a microwave hood over a powerful gas cooktop. It doesn't have enough pull plus the microwave can mess up with all the steam . Buy an extended warranty on the microwave if you do deceide to go ahead and put it over the gas cooktop.  You will thank me later.   Check with your contractor.  shaggy



You know of what you speak. I really feel that over-the-range microwaves are inherently dangerous. Here you are pulling a steaming hot casserole out and spill it down your front, that's dangerous. Ours is under the counter. Knee level. It detracts from cabinet space, but is safe.

I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but Viking makes some beautiful, powerful cooktops. Sure, there are cheaper ones. Also more expensive. On sale, sometimes they throw in a Viking hood (That's how I got mine) free.

Take a look at this 36" top:
http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/products/product.jsp?skuPassthru=false&id=prod110156

Jim Ricks


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## heathpack (Mar 6, 2010)

I'm a semi-serious home cook.  No aspirations of becoming a chef, but I appreciate technique and good tools.

We have GE fridge, dishwasher, microwave, and range.

The fridge is fine, but was overpriced.  I'd rate it a "C+"  The dishwasher is not so great- maybe a C-.  The microwave was cheap and we only using it for heating things up, it works just fine.  It would get an A, but then again, so would probably any microwave for me.

Our range is a GE Cafe and it is a solid B+ performer.  It has six burners, with 1 catch basin underneath, so easy to clean.  The burner grates are contiguous, so it is really nice to be able to slide a pan from one burner to another.  The highest-output burner puts out great heat and also can maintain a nice low flame.  Definately can burn a stir-fry if you don't keep things moving.  I can get a nice sear on a steak.  Other burners are fine- they put out lower heat, but in our home setting that is ok- I would not realistically attempt to have two items cooking with blazing heat at the same time as I am the only cook in the kitchen.  The middle two burners can be replaced by a griddle.  We've only used it to make low-heat things like grilled cheese sandwiches or quesadillas.  It is small but works fine for us.

The (gas) oven heats up very quickly and cooks fairly evenly- it has a convection feature but I frequently do not use it.  The oven has numerous electronic controls that are very useful to us.  You can program the oven to turn on at a specific time, or to turn off at a specific time  (or both).  You can also insert a probe in the item you are cooking and then have the oven turn off when your item reaches a certain temperature.  You can program the oven to turn on at say 5pm and then to turn off when the internal temperature of your item reaches a certain temperature.  These features are very practical for us- I am a train commuter and husband picks me up at the station.  If a casserole is in the oven and train is late, oven will turn itself off and dinner will not be ruined.

The oven has some sort of fan (not the convection fan) that turns on when oven reaches a certain temp.  This fan stays on until oven cools off and you cannot control it.  The fan is noisy.

I am sure that much of what has been said about the higher-end ranges is completely correct, but I personally was not interested in paying $7000 for a range.  If money were no object, I'd love to have one of these pricey ranges.  But the GE Cafe was more like $1500 and for the price I would consider it a good value.

Hopefully this helps.  BTW, I am slightly confused as to whether you are looking for a range or a cooktop. 

H


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## Passepartout (Mar 6, 2010)

heathpack said:


> BTW, I am slightly confused as to whether you are looking for a range or a cooktop.
> 
> H



OP says he's roughed in for a 36" gas cooktop, has the 36" combo vent/micro and is set up for double wall-mount ovens.... Jim


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## heathpack (Mar 6, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but Viking makes some beautiful, powerful cooktops. Sure, there are cheaper ones. Also more expensive. On sale, sometimes they throw in a Viking hood (That's how I got mine) free.
> 
> Take a look at this 36" top:
> http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/products/product.jsp?skuPassthru=false&id=prod110156
> ...



My sister-in-law (who ironically _never_ cooks anything) has a Viking range and I've found the oven to be surprisingly small with very uneven cooking- yes, I'm one of the few who ever uses this particular range.  I would never attempt high-heat cooking on her cooktop (she'd be so stressed out about the mess that it would be no fun for any of us), so I can't speak to what the burners can do.

What do you think of your oven?  Do you like it?  I do agree the Viking ranges are lookers.

H


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## ScoopKona (Mar 6, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but Viking makes some beautiful, powerful cooktops. Sure, there are cheaper ones. Also more expensive. On sale, sometimes they throw in a Viking hood (That's how I got mine) free.



If I'm not mistaken, ALL Viking cooktops feature a pull-out drawer under the burners. 

This is a must-have for me. Any cooktop that DOESN'T feature this is unacceptable.

1) Clean cooktop with wire brush

2) Pull drawer

3) Roll up aluminum foil (the surface of which is covered in bits of carbonized yuck), then replace.

4) Cook paella in a commie-free world.


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## heathpack (Mar 6, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> OP says he's roughed in for a 36" gas cooktop, has the 36" combo vent/micro and is set up for double wall-mount ovens.... Jim



Oh you're right- post 19- I somehow missed that.  Was wondering why we were being warned about the over-the-stove microwave.  

So forget my dissertation on my oven's features...

H


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## heathpack (Mar 6, 2010)

heathpack said:


> My sister-in-law (who ironically _never_ cooks anything) has a Viking range and I've found the oven to be surprisingly small with very uneven cooking- yes, I'm one of the few who ever uses this particular range.  I would never attempt high-heat cooking on her cooktop (she'd be so stressed out about the mess that it would be no fun for any of us), so I can't speak to what the burners can do.
> 
> What do you think of your oven?  Do you like it?  I do agree the Viking ranges are lookers.
> 
> H



Ok, so I need to read more carefully- you are talking about Viking cooktops, not ranges.  So forget my question, which you probably can't answer anyway...


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## Passepartout (Mar 6, 2010)

heathpack said:


> What do you think about the oven? Do you like it?  I do agree the Viking ranges are lookers.
> 
> H



Our Viking is a dual fuel 30", so doesn't have a huge oven. A 1/2 sheet pan won't go straight in and close the door. It is slow to preheat. I find the temp to be uniform once it's preheated, though. My DW is the official baker and she has placed Taylor thermometers all over the oven and they seem to be right on with the knob setting.... Jim


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## sammy (Mar 6, 2010)

Yes, I, at this point in construction, am committed to: 
over range microwave, double wall oven, cooktop.  

But, let me say, I am VERY confused!  Comments online about the GE Profile igniting on its own (swell, how can that even stay on the market if that's the case???) yet I seem to be stuck with this one and only 36" microwave.

What the difference between a cooktop and a rangetop?  Should I consider a rangetop?  

Passepartout - any idea what that Viking runs?  I can't find it (yet) online.  

And with the Viking, is the designer series Ok or do I need to stick with the Professional series?  

Shagy - I know the micro/hood is a bad idea.  This kitchen is just too small for anything else.  And my kitchen supply store (as ScoopLV alluded to, they probably know little about cooking) says the hoods and micros have the same draw. ?!?  I'm thinking back to my last kitchens and I believe I always got KitchenAid frigs and never had a repair call (although I only lived in any 1 house for 4-7 years), but my cooktops have been a variety of consumer brands.  Never a Viking or the like. 

Re dishwashers - what do you suggest there?  I don't use anything but wash, dry, delay and look for room and versatility.  My sis says go for GE because of the interior room/flexibility.  I HATED my last stainles interor KitchenAid - stained all my silver and didn't clean.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 6, 2010)

sammy said:


> Comments online about the GE Profile igniting on its own (swell, how can that even stay on the market if that's the case???) yet I seem to be stuck with this one and only 36" microwave.



The printed circuit board on mine shorted somewhere and started smoking. It's happened in about six of my neighbors houses, too.



sammy said:


> What the difference between a cooktop and a rangetop?  Should I consider a rangetop?



The cooktop is just the burners. A rangetop is burners and an oven. In general a cooktop and wall oven set will cost more, pound for pound, than a rangetop.



sammy said:


> Passepartout - any idea what that Viking runs?  I can't find it (yet) online.



I've read that Viking is price protected. MSRP is around $7K. By shopping around you can find it substantially less. Probably $3K in Canada. That's a SWAG (scientific wild-assed guess) though. 



sammy said:


> Shagy - I know the micro/hood is a bad idea.  This kitchen is just too small for anything else.  And my kitchen supply store (as ScoopLV alluded to, they probably know little about cooking) says the hoods and micros have the same draw. ?!?



I cannot imagine an OTR microwave has the same CFM draw as a hood. I have the GE OTR microwave and it behaves like all the other GE stuff I have -- poorly. It doesn't have enough "oomph" to really vent. I don't like the whole house smelling like bacon, or onions or whatever for hours. So I cook those outside.

I also REALLY don't like the microwave above the range because it's inherently dangerous. For me it's OK because I'm 6'5". But my wife is considerably shorter, and she really ought to step on a stool to use the microwave. Eventually she is going to get splashed in the face with something hot. 

Microwaves belong on counters. And there's no changing my mind on that point. When I move from this blasted hellhole, I will buy a commercial microwave and put it on the counter.

(Oh, and my restaurant supply guys are AWESOME cooks. I never alluded otherwise. I've been thinking about applying there because I hate my current job and there's no work for me in my field. So I have to do _something_ while I wait to move to Oregon.)



sammy said:


> Re dishwashers - what do you suggest there?  I don't use anything but wash, dry, delay and look for room and versatility.  My sis says go for GE because of the interior room/flexibility.  I HATED my last stainles interor KitchenAid - stained all my silver and didn't clean.



As much as I bash GE, I can't say anything bad about my dishwasher. And none of my neighbors have had problems, either. But because it's made by GE I simply do not trust it. I literally cringe when I go for an MRI and I see the GE label on the machine. 

I also don't see how the MACHINE can stain silver. The detergent, sure. But the machine is just a pump and some water jets when you get down to it. I'd hand-wash silver, anyway.


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## Passepartout (Mar 6, 2010)

sammy said:


> What the difference between a cooktop and a rangetop?  Should I consider a rangetop?
> 
> Passepartout - any idea what that Viking runs?  I can't find it (yet) online.
> 
> And with the Viking, is the designer series Ok or do I need to stick with the Professional series?



A cooktop is a drop-in unit that (generally) has sealed burners and fits into a rectangular cut-out, like a sink. Controls are on top beside the burners. A rangetop slides horizontaly into the cutout or built -for place. There is a crumb tray under it and the knobs are on the front. Basically it looks like the top of a range, about 5-6" thick. Kind of like a farm-house sink.

Price-wise, I can't help. I think Scoop was a bit high, but honestly I haven't priced one in some years. IIRC, my 30" dual fuel range w/convection and matching hood was about $4k in 2001ish. On the URL I posted earlier, there is a link to tell you your local seller, and a phone call should give you a number. There should be some 'consideration-to-the-trade' if your contractor makes the deal.

As to Designer series vs Professional, I think it's just cosmetic. The workings are the same.

Jim Ricks


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## ScoopKona (Mar 6, 2010)

*Why we spend the money for this stuff....*

Costco USDA Prime Ribeye steaks (2): $20








Custom DIY outdoor kitchen with 50,000 BTU ceramic infrared searer: $2,500






Never wanting to bother going to a steakhouse again? _*Priceless.*_







PS -- Yes, my china sucks. It was a gift, and replacing it would be a slight to the giver. So, we keep it.


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## stmartinfan (Mar 6, 2010)

I don't have a suggestion for the cooktop, because we got a range for our recent kitchen re-do.  It's the GE Profile Induction top range, and so far I love it.  

We have the matching GE Profile microwave, and it works fine, although I've only had it for a couple of months.  Compared to the old Whirlpool (builder's model) MW, it's a huge step up.

We love our new KitchenAir dishwasher - we got their top model because of its outstanding low noise rating, and it's amazing how quiet it is. 

For refrigerator, we got the Samsung French door with the bottom freezer.  It was the top rated by Consumer Reports and seems to be working well for us.  It has a smaller ice maker because it's located in the refrigerator section (so we can get ice cubes through the door) but it meets our demand level.


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## Passepartout (Mar 6, 2010)

Geez, Scoop, ditch the Corelle! Practical, yes, ugly, ditto. Keep it around in case the givver comes around, but turn your el-cheapo shopping skills to some Denby. We bought Harlequin pattern when Bon Marche (now Macy's) closed it out then fleshed out the collection on e-bay over a couple of years. But talk about durable! Man, I've managed to break just one bowl, and the rest of 12 place settings look new. The very lightest of scratches from steak knives etc., that  I feel would polish out when/if I decide to divest myself of it. Originally kinda expensive, about $25/dinner plate, but it's about the same on e-bay and just wears like iron! Factored together, the Denby is the cheapest dinnerware we've ever owned.

Jim Ricks


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## ScoopKona (Mar 6, 2010)

Passepartout said:


> Geez, Scoop, ditch the Corelle! Practical, yes, ugly, ditto. Keep it around in case the givver comes around, but turn your el-cheapo shopping skills to some Denby.



I am SO with you there. But the giver comes over nearly every day, eats with us often, and kicked in half of the money for our house!

Corelle it is. For quite awhile.


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## sammy (Mar 7, 2010)

ScoopLV said:


> ..... But because it's made by GE I simply do not trust it. I literally cringe when I go for an MRI and I see the GE label on the machine. .



...yikes, I see what you mean!



ScoopLV said:


> I also don't see how the [dishwasher] MACHINE can stain silver. The detergent, sure. But the machine is just a pump and some water jets when you get down to it. I'd hand-wash silver, anyway.



Worse yet, I meant my stainless!!! Spotted them with orange spots that took a long time to wear off and I have a few pieces with still a trace of that orange spot.  I know it seems impossible, but honestly, it did....and I have used the same detergent everywhere - one blend of Cascade or another.


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