# You Won't Believe This!!



## Daverock (Dec 16, 2006)

Hi All,

My wife and I are staying at Vacation Village Weston for 8 weeks, Dec thru Jan 07.  Got a call from RCI that they had a problem not only with Vac.Village at Weston but also with Vacation Village at Bonaventure.  It seems they overbooked, by some strange error, 900 units, and the week of Dec 30 they want me to vacate the premises and they will relocate me.  I can then return to Vac.Village the following week and complete my stay thru January.

I told the rep that doesn't make sense. As we are already here and will be thru Jan why not just cancel the other person they want to put in for the one week and leave us alone.  In any event, I said there is no way I am moving out.

I would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions how to resolve this problem with RCI.

Dave


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## suenmike32 (Dec 16, 2006)

Tell them to pring a prybar!  Thats the only way they would get me out.
Mike


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## ira g (Dec 16, 2006)

Dave- didn't you book this week over a year ago? Tell them to show you proof that other people booked before you. If you reserved first tell them to _ _ _ _ off.


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## riverdees05 (Dec 16, 2006)

Check this out:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37006


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## JLB (Dec 16, 2006)

Yeah, you're not the only one.

And I have been checking availability to see where folks might get placed.  So far the answer is nowhere.

There is also a TUGger who lost a 12/30 exchange at Camelot.  We have two units in SW FL that date and they are going to take one of them if RCI doesn't find them something.  I just posted 12/22 and 12/29 availability and there are five resorts each week in all of Florida, none of them something you would pick if you had a choice.


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## chicklet (Dec 16, 2006)

Jim, do you think that is why the availability is down because now rci is scrambling to find these folks a place to stay?  Yes, you're right about the choices of resorts available...we have a 2 bedroom at Celebrity Palm Coast on hold Dec. 31....it is a little too far north but with the choices out there we're using it as insurance.


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## abc31 (Dec 16, 2006)

I used to be a hotel manager. I know there is no way they can force you to leave unless, they go through the same eviction procedures they would use to get someone out of a house.  This would be a very lengthy process.  At least that's how it is under NY laws.


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## Big Matt (Dec 16, 2006)

Just remember that the problem is with RCI, and not the resort.  You have no control of what RCI and the reservations department at the timeshare agree to.  As far as I can tell, if you aren't a reserved guest, you have no business there.  

I would be very emphatic with RCI that you cannot move.  Remind them of all of the exchange fees they received.  



			
				abc31 said:
			
		

> I used to be a hotel manager. I know there is no way they can force you to leave unless, they go through the same eviction procedures they would use to get someone out of a house.  This would be a very lengthy process.  At least that's how it is under NY laws.


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## JLB (Dec 16, 2006)

Not accurate advice.



			
				abc31 said:
			
		

> I used to be a hotel manager. I know there is no way they can force you to leave unless, they go through the same eviction procedures they would use to get someone out of a house.  This would be a very lengthy process.  At least that's how it is under NY laws.


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## JLB (Dec 16, 2006)

More accurate advice.   

Actually, if you bother to sort through the legalities of it you likely have no claim against anyone.  There is a clause that releases RCI from liability for their own errors.  That goes back a long way, at least seven years.

I believe the words they used with me first were something like, "Mistakes get made."  When I didn't find that good enough, the words turned to "We have a legal department for people like you."

You know, when people use the _like you _phrase, it always makes me curious what I am like, because I always sorta thought I was like most everyone else, m/l.   

Being practical, how is that going to get a unit that someone else is already in?    



			
				Big Matt said:
			
		

> Just remember that the problem is with RCI, and not the resort.  You have no control of what RCI and the reservations department at the timeshare agree to.  As far as I can tell, if you aren't a reserved guest, you have no business there.
> 
> I would be very emphatic with RCI that you cannot move.  Remind them of all of the exchange fees they received.


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## EAM (Dec 16, 2006)

JLB said:
			
		

> More accurate advice.
> Being practical, how is that going to get a unit that someone else is already in?



The OP said that they were already in the unit now.  They had reserved 8 weeks, December through January.


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## timeos2 (Dec 16, 2006)

*Weston has a 4 week annual limit*



			
				EAM said:
			
		

> The OP said that they were already in the unit now.  They had reserved 8 weeks, December through January.



Which raises a question right away. Unless they are an owner that is 4 more weeks than the resort groups allows on trades or points. Make too much trouble and they may lose 3 more use weeks! (That doesn't make what RCI is doing right but shows there are always more sides to each tale).


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## ira g (Dec 16, 2006)

timeos2 said:
			
		

> Which raises a question right away. Unless they are an owner that is 4 more weeks than the resort groups allows on trades or points. Make too much trouble and they may lose 3 more use weeks! (That doesn't make what RCI is doing right but shows there are always more sides to each tale).


John- I believe you are not correct. The last time I looked there was an annual 8 week limit for the 3 resorts Weston, Bonaventure and Mizner, but I haven't checked recently.


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## timeos2 (Dec 16, 2006)

*8 weeks IS correct*



			
				ira g said:
			
		

> John- I believe you are not correct. The last time I looked there was an annual 8 week limit for the 3 resorts Weston, Bonaventure and Mizner, but I haven't checked recently.


I just checked - you are correct! When did that happen? I had stayed at Weston 3 times in 2004 and then went to reserve 2 weeks at Orlando Palm Parkway only to be told I was exceeding the 4 week maximum. Good to see they raised it - now if only the units were given to the customers rather than Skyauction (for the EXACT dates no less) we'd be in good shape. I guess that $390 minimum for the split unit plus whatever the auction sells for was too tempting for RCI.  Maybe the OP just needs to raise his exchange fee "bid"?


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## JLB (Dec 16, 2006)

What?  Is there a new rule here?  One that requires that we read posts before replying?   

Good luck trying to stay in it anyway if they have been given notice that it is not theirs after a certain date.



			
				EAM said:
			
		

> The OP said that they were already in the unit now.  They had reserved 8 weeks, December through January.


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## JLB (Dec 16, 2006)

Here's the gobbleygook to wade through to seek satisfaction:

6.6. Unavailability. If a Confirmation is received by a
Member and is subsequently not able to be honored for
any reason other than Force Majeure (which reasons
may include, but are not limited to, the unavailability of
an applicable accommodation at an Affiliated Resort due
to, continued or unauthorized use by an occupant or
overbooking), RCI will use commercially reasonable
efforts to locate and provide such Member an equivalent
and alternative accommodation located within the same
geographic vicinity and *RCI shall have no additional
liability to the Member.*

17.0 INDEMNIFICATIONS. Member will indemnify,
defend and hold the Indemnitees harmless, to the fullest
extent permitted by law, from and against all losses and
expenses, incurred by any Indemnitee for any
investigation, claim, action, suit, demand, administrative or
alternative dispute resolution proceeding, relating to or
arising out of any transaction, occurrence or service at a
resort, or involving personal injury or property damage,
any breach or violation of any contract or any law,
regulation or ruling by, or any act, error or omission (active
or passive) of, Member, Member’s guests, any party
associated or affiliated with Member, its guests, or any of
the owners, officers, directors, employees, agents or
contractors of Member or Member’s affiliates. Member has
no obligation to indemnify an Indemnitee for damages to
compensate for property damage or personal injury if a
court of competent jurisdiction makes a final decision not
subject to further appeal that the Indemnitee engaged in
willful misconduct or intentionally caused such property
damage or bodily injury.
Member will respond promptly to any matter described in
the preceding paragraph, and defend the Indemnitee.
Member will reimburse the Indemnitee for all costs of
defending the matter, including reasonable attorneys’ fees,
incurred by the Indemnitee if Member’s insurer or Member
does not assume defense of the Indemnitee promptly
when requested, or separate counsel is appropriate, in
RCI’s discretion, because of actual or potential conflicts of
interest. Indemnitee has the right to retain counsel of its
choosing. RCI must approve any resolution or course of
action in a matter that could directly or indirectly have any
adverse effect on RCI, or could serve as a precedent for
other matters.


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## nrkh12 (Dec 16, 2006)

If these properties are so "overbooked" why are they showing rooms available on travel sites such as expedia and travelocity?


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## Daverock (Dec 17, 2006)

*Electronic Door Keys*

One potential problem is that the room key is a card that is swiped.  They can easily change the code to the room negating our cards.  However, I will make it very clear to the RCI rep that I am not going to vacate the room thus the person they have selected to checkin will not be able to.  I cannot believe they want someone already checked in at the resort to leave for a week and then return the next week to complete their stay.  It is inconceivable to me that their top management would allow this.  

IMHO, regarding those folks already checked into the resort, you don't kick them out and make room for new checkins, but rather you cancel the new checkins.


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## Big Matt (Dec 17, 2006)

Why do you think that top management was/is even involved in this decision.  Get in touch with the GM.  I'll bet you can work this out.



			
				Daverock said:
			
		

> It is inconceivable to me that their top management would allow this.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 17, 2006)

JLB said:
			
		

> Not accurate advice.



Depends on the state and it's laws. We actually had to go through the eviction procedures to remove a family who refused to be discharged from the hospital a couple of years ago. The doctors had discharged the pt to go to a nursing home, the family refused to leave the hospital and the hospital had to go to court and get an eviction notice to legally remove them. 

I can see the same thing happening at a hotel or timeshare but, I can also see the key card no longer working either. I had that issue with a hotel in KS when I first moved here. The hotel only asked for our credit card the night we checked in. The next evening when I returned from work, the key card did not work. I went to the front desk and was told I only had paid for one night (was going to be there for the week). Now THAT was a conversation the manager really didn't want to have with me. Needless to say, an agreement was reached that I would set foot on his property again.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 17, 2006)

Big Matt said:
			
		

> Why do you think that top management was/is even involved in this decision.  Get in touch with the GM.  I'll bet you can work this out.



Judging from what I've been reading on TUG, this is not all that uncommon of an issue with RCI. I haven't read about this problem with I.I. but I have been seeing post's about RCI cancellations with the excuse that they've "overbooked" the resort.

I have an issue with this since they are not suppopsed to book an exchange unless a unit has been deposited and is available. As I understand it, it should be a zero sum distribution. A unit is available for exchange and one exchange  can be made for that unit. Exchanges should not be made based upon anticipated availability or future cancellations. This is not like booking airline seats, hotel room or rental cars where something else will almost always be available without much inconvenience. With airlines, there is mandated compensation for getting bumped, hotels generally seem to have aggreements with other hotels to take excess bookings (or with partner hotels within the same brand name), rental car companies can move you up a class of car (although I've read about them just saying, "opps." ).

Since it seems to occur far to often based upon reports I've read on TUG, I can't see how top management can't possibly know it's not happening. It appears to me that it's a company policy to book on anticipated inventory rather than actual inventory.


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## randkb (Dec 17, 2006)

*Owners*



			
				Daverock said:
			
		

> One potential problem is that the room key is a card that is swiped.  They can easily change the code to the room negating our cards.  However, I will make it very clear to the RCI rep that I am not going to vacate the room thus the person they have selected to checkin will not be able to.  I cannot believe they want someone already checked in at the resort to leave for a week and then return the next week to complete their stay.  It is inconceivable to me that their top management would allow this.
> 
> IMHO, regarding those folks already checked into the resort, you don't kick them out and make room for new checkins, but rather you cancel the new checkins.



Your post doesn't indicate whether you own at the VV of Weston.  We will be checking in the VV of Weston the 30th of December.  As an owner of three weeks at the VV who traded for a different time of year, I would be very upset if our reservation was cancelled to allow non-owners to stay.  So I don't think asking the new checkins to move would be any easier especially if they own there.  It is a terrible situation so close to the holidays and I hope they find a suitable solution for you!  I know we would be livid if the same thing happened to us.


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## "Roger" (Dec 17, 2006)

Since you are already at the Weston, why not go down to one of the offices and ask what's up.  See what they say.


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## JLB (Dec 17, 2006)

As I've seen in the past, today there is a sudden surge in the number of resorts available the next two weeks.  A couple of decent ones.

I wonder how many will be in the _problem line_ when we check in next Saturday?


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## littlestar (Dec 17, 2006)

I think this absolutely stinks to high heaven. :annoyed: We own a resort that is dual affiliated with II and RCI and we have decided we won't be joining RCI. I have seen other posts besides yours on other sites where RCI has done this to other people. It sounds like corporate greed to me. Just goes to prove that the fox shouldn't guard the hen house.


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## Pat H (Dec 17, 2006)

An RCI cancellation used to be a rare thing but now it seems to be a common occurrence. I noticed that the cancellations at the Weston are only for Christmas and New Year's week. Isn't that interesting?


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## Fern Modena (Dec 17, 2006)

Dave,
I agree with you that this is a rotton thing, and should have never happened.  It seems to me that your first and best recourse, as a guest is to discuss this with the management of the resort ASAP.  They may be willing to help you, where I'd be almost certain RCI is not going to back down.

If worse comes to worse, and the resort won't help you, and RCI won't back down, then I think you have to leave, accepting whatever help RCI will offer.  Yes, this s*cks scissors.  But in reality, besides the room key code being changed, if RCI tells you that you don't have a reservation and you don't leave, they could threaten (and possibly carry out) to cancel your membership.  Although it sounds drastic, I know of somebody who got into a big dispute with a resort's management over an excessive late checkout charge...words flew and eventually a lit cigarette.  When all was said and done, they were no longer members of RCI.

Of course, after all of this, you may not want to remain a member anyway.

Fern



			
				Daverock said:
			
		

> One potential problem is that the room key is a card that is swiped.  They can easily change the code to the room negating our cards.  However, I will make it very clear to the RCI rep that I am not going to vacate the room thus the person they have selected to checkin will not be able to.  I cannot believe they want someone already checked in at the resort to leave for a week and then return the next week to complete their stay.  It is inconceivable to me that their top management would allow this.
> 
> IMHO, regarding those folks already checked into the resort, you don't kick them out and make room for new checkins, but rather you cancel the new checkins.


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## timeos2 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Someone screwed up or is cheating the system*



			
				randkb said:
			
		

> Your post doesn't indicate whether you own at the VV of Weston.  We will be checking in the VV of Weston the 30th of December.  As an owner of three weeks at the VV who traded for a different time of year, I would be very upset if our reservation was cancelled to allow non-owners to stay. .



Being THE owner or not should have nothing to do with who gets in. When the system works as it is supposed to the only way an exchange guest can get a unit is if a paying owner, such as you, have chosen to trade their time. The incoming guest has every bit the same right to the unit as that owner would have. The problem appears to be that somewhere along the line someone, some exchange company or the resort has promised a unit or units that they had no right to. It would help a lot if we knew who really was the cause but it's doubtful it is the owner or exchange guest. That leaves the resort and RCI - neither have the credibility to allow us to say with any certainty that one or the other is at fault or if they managed to screw things up together.  In any case it is a mess especially for the exchange guest. Makes you wonder what that hefty exchange fee really pays for doesn't it?


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## Pat H (Dec 17, 2006)

What would happen if RCI couldn't get in touch with an exchanger? Do they kick someone else out instead?


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## geekette (Dec 17, 2006)

This is rock-bottom customer service.  Seems that most people would have made their reservations over a year ago so why wasn't the overbooking known then?  

I strongly suspect RCI's legendary mainframe + website combination as the culprit.  Coupled with the fact that some resorts don't get their lists until 2 weeks before check-in, I think the resorts are probably scrambling but have little recourse.  I haven't been keeping score, but it's more than one resort, right?  All in Florida?

Everyone affected should be sure to document everything and send letters to RCI, the confirmed resort and your home resort.  Do not stand for this.  Whether or not they fix this to your satisfaction, the problem needs a bright light shined on it.

I'm sorry for everyone getting this unspeakable treatment.  I hope things are resolved immediately and that you can still get the vacation you planned on.


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## JLB (Dec 18, 2006)

Not that it applies in this case, but while I was searching the Terms and Conditions for what does apply, I noticed a new clause that says that RCI members can be expelled for rudeness of their guests to RCI employees, by phone, letter or email.  That, too, seems extreme.


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## dougp26364 (Dec 18, 2006)

JLB said:
			
		

> Not that applies in this case, but while I was searching the Terms and Conditions for what does apply, I noticed a new clause that says that RCI members can be expelled for rudeness of their guests to RCI employees, by phone, letter or email.  That, too, seems extreme.



It also appears to be a symptom of a wide spread problem. Why would a company have to go to such extreme's if only a few people were rude to RCI employee's on the phone? I'm relatively certain that RCI's own issues are the instigator of rude behavior by members. 

I wonder how RCI upper management would react if they had planned what amounted to an expensive vaction for themselves, only to have some employee of a travel agency call them at the last minute and say, "Opps, your reservation has been cancelled do to overbooking. We'll see if we can find you someplace else to stay in the general vicinity (not necessarily beach front, Gold Crown or convenienent to whatever you had in mind)). Sorry about that but........mistakes happen." 

Somehow I feel that a few heated words would be spoken. Since they're upper management, I bet they'd even go further as to attempt to get to a top dog, toss their weight around and get someone fired over the incident. Not that I've ever seen something like that happen before. 
 

If so many people are upset with them that they have to put in the "rude behavior rule," they really should take a look at WHY people are being rude. Within time RCI will eventually emplode on itself. Owners drive their business. If they're upsetting the owners so much they feel they need to protect their employee's from the owners then something is seriously wrong with their buisness. If that's the case, they will eventually fail. Where that leaves TS owners I'm not certain. Perhaps it opens the door for the smaller companies to grow larger. 

In this day in age, a lot of large companies have forgotten that the customer is king, not the other way around.


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## JLB (Dec 18, 2006)

The king is customer!?   



			
				dougp26364 said:
			
		

> In this day in age, a lot of large companies have forgotten that the customer is king, not the other way around.


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## JLB (Dec 18, 2006)

I've been thinking about this today.  What it is saying is that RCI has the right to screw you over (for lack of a better way to say it), and you do not have to right to complain about it.



			
				JLB said:
			
		

> Not that it applies in this case, but while I was searching the Terms and Conditions for what does apply, I noticed a new clause that says that RCI members can be expelled for rudeness of their guests to RCI employees, by phone, letter or email.  That, too, seems extreme.


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## SteveChapin (Dec 19, 2006)

dougp26364 said:
			
		

> I have an issue with this since they are not suppopsed to book an exchange unless a unit has been deposited and is available. As I understand it, it should be a zero sum distribution. A unit is available for exchange and one exchange  can be made for that unit.



I know of one resort complex (Massanutten) that will tell RCI there will be a certain number of a certain kind of unit available a year in advance, and then actually designate which units much closer to the reservation day.  This can lead to using past load to predict future load. I do not know if they actually do this, but I do know that we booked two large units this past summer for a get-together, and it wasn't until a month before we went that we knew which ones.  This is a good thing for me if it allows me to make a reservation a year in advance when the owners haven't yet deposited their units.  This is a bad thing for me if the owners don't deposit enough weeks to cover what the resort has told RCI would be available, and I get the boot because of it.

I'm not absolving RCI of anything here, but if Massanutten can do this, I'm assuming other resorts can to, and perhaps that is leading to some of these situations.  What is particularly unforgivable is when this happens repeatedly with the same resorts---I, for one, would never book a Grand Mayan through RCI, as it seems to be routine that RCI exchangers get bumped down to Mayan Palace or Sea Garden units (I've stayed in a Sea Garden, and it was very nice, but I wasn't expecting a Grand Mayan).

sc
--


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## jd2601 (Dec 23, 2006)

I had a rude CSR from RCI, this employee used profanity on the phone.  I sent an email referring an exact quote from this employee.  I recieved a nasty letter from RCI that profanity would not be tollerated in emails. Of course I worked my way up and recieved a resolution after making a contact with a supervisor I recieved from TUG.

I agree rude behaivor should not be tolerated from the customer or RCI.




			
				JLB said:
			
		

> Not that it applies in this case, but while I was searching the Terms and Conditions for what does apply, I noticed a new clause that says that RCI members can be expelled for rudeness of their guests to RCI employees, by phone, letter or email.  That, too, seems extreme.


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## MusicMan (Dec 23, 2006)

jd2601 said:
			
		

> I had a rude CSR from RCI, this employee used profanity on the phone.  I sent an email referring an exact quote from this employee.  I recieved a nasty letter from RCI that profanity would not be tollerated in emails.



I know it wasn't funny to you, but this struck me as hilarious......the total absurdity of it all!


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## Dean (Dec 24, 2006)

JLB said:
			
		

> Not accurate advice.


Actually under FL law they can't force them to leave other than the eviction but they can charge them full rack rates and other fees, at least that's my understanding.


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## Fern Modena (Dec 24, 2006)

Dean,
While what you say may be true _legally_, the reality is that the OP's problem was caused by RCI, and if they don't leave RCI could well cancel their membership.  The only way it appears the OP would have around this is if he was able to come to some sort of a mutual agreement with the resort which would allow him to stay.  

Fern



			
				Dean said:
			
		

> Actually under FL law they can't force them to leave other than the eviction but they can charge them full rack rates and other fees, at least that's my understanding.


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## Dean (Dec 24, 2006)

Fern Modena said:
			
		

> Dean,
> While what you say may be true _legally_, the reality is that the OP's problem was caused by RCI, and if they don't leave RCI could well cancel their membership.  The only way it appears the OP would have around this is if he was able to come to some sort of a mutual agreement with the resort which would allow him to stay.
> 
> Fern


No question there's a technical and a practical answer.  I'm sure that the holdover statutes would be little help when one gets the bill.  I was simply acknowledging that what abc31 posted was accurate based on the info I have, esp since it was otherwise questioned.

And it does speak to a larger problem with all the exchange companies, that they tend to not be accountable for their mistakes.


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## EAM (Dec 27, 2006)

*How did this turn out?*

Daverock,

How did this situation turn out for you?


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## chap7 (Feb 8, 2007)

Any update on this?  My Dad just received a similiar message from RCI today concerning his President's Week stay at Vacation Village at Weston.  My Dad hasn't gotten in touch with RCI yet.


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