# Grand Mayan/Grand Bliss: Beware of “Owners Meeting!”



## stopfraud (Apr 8, 2009)

We recently returned from two weeks at the Grand Mayan Acapulco.  The weather was beautiful, the sea and the resort were great.  However, we attended an “Owners Meeting” which was utterly upsetting to us.

We own a GM timeshare and last December after several hours of blatant lies and the usual pressure tactics we (very foolishly) updated to the Grand Bliss.  So when we checked in this time we were told we should not go to a presentation, only to a very brief “Owners Meeting” for an update on recent developments in the Grand Bliss (which does not yet exist).   For attending we would not get any perks, not even a breakfast, only the 10% room service discount. So we agreed to attend.

Needless to say, the brief “Owners Meeting” turned out to be the usual hard-pressure sales presentation. They are now pushing the “Grupo Luxxe” which presumably will include suites and villas, much bigger, much more luxurious, in Argentina, London, Paris, etc, which we could get now for the very low pre-construction price of $56,000 (minus what we paid so far to Grupo Mayan).  Frankly, I was so annoyed that I couldn’t really listen to the spiel, but polite “no”, “not interested”, etc, were not accepted.  So after one-and-a half hours of this, when they were about to get the help of the third salesman, we decided to be rude.  We got up, told them that they are a bunch of liars and they can stick their 10%, and walked away.

After many unpleasant hours, and many thousands of wasted dollars, when we politely succumbed to the pressure, we realized that the only way to deal with those guys is to be RUDE. After all they are rude too: if you are polite they just keep you hostage until you break down and sign.


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## pjrose (Apr 8, 2009)

I agree with just getting up and walking away.  That is a problem if they've taken you out on a boat (happened to us once) or driven you somewhere.....
but even so, say no, stand up, and walk away from the table.  Good for you.

Note that not every timeshare is like this.  I keep reading about the Grupo Mayan presentations that hold you hostage for hours, but there are others that don't (and don't have to) use the hard sell or lies.


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## pammex (Apr 8, 2009)

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate incident with the Mayan sales, yes they are relentless and you did good gettin gup and walking out!

Now on another note....I am headed to Grand Mayan in ACA in a month.....other than the sales sharks...any tips advise or such in regards to Grand Mayan in ACA or in regards to what I must see in ACA etc.

Do not worry I am not doing update...already a Mayan Place owner and that is enough.....for me anyway.....I amnot going as owner though but as an RCI exchange!


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## Parkplace (Apr 8, 2009)

We are Mayan Palace owners and absolutely refuse to attend any more of their 'updates'.

My husband just tells them that it is too hard on his heart and they back right off.  (there's nothing wrong with his heart)

10% off is just not worth it.


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## judy23 (Apr 9, 2009)

Pammex,
We drove through Mexico this past March an Acapulco was one of our stops. The GM is out of town a bit so you may want to rent a car. Being our first visit we loved it. We stayed in town at the old Hotel which has the divers directly in front.(can't remember the name). The divers of course are a must. We loved the city itself and they have some great resturants. If you can get a tour(or drive) Taxco is a really neat city to visit. It is an easy drive with all 4 lane highways. I am sure you can get a tour there.The streets are very narrow but it is in the mountains and the views are spectatular. Have a good trip.


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## ssally (Apr 9, 2009)

*how do these great resorts get built??*

Having gone through the Grand BLISS update, we found the young gentlemen very low preasure and matter of fact. Even though we refused the bottom offer, he was kind and professional.I think this board seems to be obsessed with rabid anti- mayan palace posters.Can you blame a salesperson for doing thier best to convince you to buy? As far as the lies...If you get the promise in writing for whatever  perk and both you and them sign and date...you have legal recourse if that is not delivered............If everyone bought on ebay..these resorts would never be built ,and or poorly maintained....I do not get these posters that take the freeby ..then seek to want to prevent the salesperson from doing thier best..lies or not ,it is up to YOU the taker of the freeby to decide on a good deal or not.If you do not want the challenge of a spiel ..don't go..simple..............so many go ,then complain about the time running over..rudeness...lies ect. DO NOT TAKE THE UPDATE THEN!!!    After refusing thier offer I started thinking if that was wise..I thought about Grupo mayans BIG plan..I believe it will be very hard or mostly impossible to pick up the grand bliss units resale..as thier rareness prevents this. Should the grand mayan owner that paid 42,000 have to here it at the pool bar, that the guy next to him picked up his for 6,000??The Bliss and luxe are the TOP END units at the resort ,I think they will always command a premium..I think time share spiels are what they are..It is up to the individual to decide on how to spend his vacation time..If your thrifty ...thats fine..bragg about your resale,just don't expect to be in the executive level...that is why I think the Bliss were created,to prevent the many grand owners that bought resale from claiming top hat.A master plan? yes I think so..Many levels of owners..You know friends of ours complained about no stove in the units...Thats good for the entire resort.(less food smells in the air) I digress...The Mayan chain is a forward thinking entity.New resorts ..new unit types..new programs..what other chain is this progressive??I like that!!   JUST WAIT TO SEE WHAT THE COMING DOLLAR INFLATION IS GOING TO DO TO THIER PURCHASE PRICE IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE...I am afraid we will be (priced out of ever getting a bliss unit) People complaining on how the sales people do thier job..should never let themselves have contact with a sales person.simple .Oh but that dangling carrot is too much..I guess.Funny in a way!!


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## mikenk (Apr 9, 2009)

I know I am in the minority here but I always do the updates and don't mind them; I realize the first wave of salespeople are both jerks and actually quite uninformed. My goal is very quickly (rudely if need be) get to the managers or customer support people that do know what is going on. We love the resorts, want to know what is happening,  and I am also willing to negotiate (and they will). I believe that people who are unwilling to even try to negotiate into a better deal are being shortsighted; understand what you want (price and amenities) and go for it. My wife takes her knitting and enjoys the show; OK, I know I am weird, but I find the challenge invigorating. My goal is to get them to refuse to offer me an owners update.

In my opinion, the trick is to set the rules upfront and make sure they know you know what you are talking about. I always go with a list of complaints and make sure they get addressed, and sometimes actually solved.

Mike


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## ssally (Apr 9, 2009)

*mike....*

you seem to be a square shooter..and a bliss owner..tell us about your spIIiel..were you harrassed ,ect. What did it take to get you to buy?? I told my story in the other thread..please share ,if you would,as we are thinking of the upgrade.                                                                                                         Sally


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## pammex (Apr 10, 2009)

judy23 said:


> Pammex,
> We drove through Mexico this past March an Acapulco was one of our stops. The GM is out of town a bit so you may want to rent a car. Being our first visit we loved it. We stayed in town at the old Hotel which has the divers directly in front.(can't remember the name). The divers of course are a must. We loved the city itself and they have some great restaurants. If you can get a tour(or drive) Taxco is a really neat city to visit. It is an easy drive with all 4 lane highways. I am sure you can get a tour there.The streets are very narrow but it is in the mountains and the views are spectatular. Have a good trip.



Thanks judy 23...yeah I know it is out of town, we are driving there from Lake Chapala, Jalisco Mexico, so won't need a rental car LOL.  Thanks though.  

Yes, of course we will go to see the divers, no doubt.  Not going to Taxco though, least no this trip, have been there before. Going to Ixtapa the week after.  Anything else in ACA you can think of we should absolutely not miss?  

Anything at the resort we should be sure to do?  Or eat or such?  Thanks for your time!!


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## mikenk (Apr 10, 2009)

ssally said:


> you seem to be a square shooter..and a bliss owner..tell us about your spIIiel..were you harrassed ,ect. What did it take to get you to buy?? I told my story in the other thread..please share ,if you would,as we are thinking of the upgrade.                                                                                                         Sally



Sally,

I had originally bought the Grand mayan Membership on resale (thanks to having found TUG before attending one of the infamous GM sales marathons). We did upgrade to the Grand Bliss last November on an owners update. Why, you ask. Because it worked for us personally. We love the GM resorts and use both weeks every year; we don't rent, we don't exchange. We always take friends and family with us for a great vacation; I want no surprises as we want our guests to have a great time.

Having said that, there are always things that can be improved. I went into the owners update with an open mind. Since I look at my membership as simply as prepaid vacations. The question is what am I willing to pay for a better vacation experience for us and our guests. The things I wanted: free golf / no MF fee if I don't use / ability to carryover / more convenience in scheduling / free spa stuff / free internet / guaranteed locations. Some of these things come with Grand Bliss ownerships; others don't. Finally, we worked out a deal that worked for us personally. However, I don't think it will make sense for non golfers and for frequent exchangers; everyone needs to look at it from a realistic view of their vacations

Now for how to make the owners update an OK experience. If there is nothing that they can offer, even in good faith, that will get you to upgrade; then don't go. I go in with clear goals. I will not deal with the junior sales troopers; I make that understood from the gitgo. They are pleasant enough and can take us to breakfast; my wife keeps it personal and they have a great little chat. I refuse to allow the junior trooper to talk business, even to being rude; they do not have the right to waste my time. 

There are people there who can and will negotiate in good faith; insist that you see them. I do make it clear that I know the real worth of timeshares (basically nothing) and that I can rescind for five days. That puts you in charge of the negotiations for five days (I always do the owners update the first day for this reason). It is very important to realize that unless it is written into the contract, it is not real. The good news is that Grupo Mayan does honor in good faith anything in the contract, even if it is quite personalized. 

Sorry for the long post, but I do believe that the high pressure tactics of the GM sales force gives Grupo Mayan an unscrupulous reputation that it does not deserve when it comes to customer service.

Mike


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## ssally (Apr 10, 2009)

*but Mike...*

please share the (deal) if you can.


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## mikenk (Apr 10, 2009)

ssally said:


> please share the (deal) if you can.



Sally, I will share some but not all of what I negotiated. The reason is twofold on why not sharing all: the first is not to set expectations that you can get at least what I got, or that you can't get more, and the second is that they asked that I not share a couple of things on these boards. They are fully aware of TUG and other Mayan focused user groups. 

Since the GB units don't even exist and probably won't until sometime in 2011, I negotiated what would be worthwhile to me even if I always just use the GM units. This is actually the best time to negotiate. 

The basic amenities (no negotiations) are:
- free golf: huge for me and my guests.
- No MF if I don't use.
- more spa stuff - nice for my guests
- Senior discounts for the future
- ability to roll forward weeks I don't use
- free internet

Since I bought an older contract, these were all nice benefits. Many people have contracts that already include many of these things above. 

Sally, I know you would like all the details, price and other things. I hope you appreciate why I won't share everything and why it is really unimportant. The important thing is there are people there that will negotiate in good faith; you need to know what is important for you, stick to you guns, and be fair.

Also realize that it will take time if you want to negotiate, I will bet it took me 10 hours over the week to do this. I read the contract several times in detail, rescinded twice, but we all ended on friendly terms. In the future, I will always donate a couple of hours on the first day to see if they and I want to upgrade. But again, my wife and I have unique goals for our vacations - to entertain our friends and family at our expense.

Mike


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## ssally (Apr 10, 2009)

*mike....*

the main reason I ask about ballpark costs and perks is because I might like to upgrade.HOW TO DO THIS AND NOT GET REALLY SMOKED is the problem. The only way we can attempt a fair deal is if we know what most people on average are paying to the developer.(we know the e-bay deals will always surface)I respect your promise to grupo mayan...If any other Grand Bliss purchasers care to share thier spiel-total cost story...this might help even the playingfield a bit...imho.


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## mikenk (Apr 10, 2009)

Sally,

I would suggest looking at it another way - not what they might sell it for, but what it is worth to you to upgrade and for what amenities. Grupo Mayan wants money; you want vacation stuff for an amount that is worth it to you. What value is to me will be different for you. For instance, are you willing to pay $20,000 now for the ability to rent a GB unit in 2011. I hope not. Are you willing to spend $10,000, but you get unlimited free golf now, free spa, and free other stuff. Maybe, but again probably not, based on how much those things mean to you and how much you spend on them. From this perspective, I think you can negotiate the best deal as long as you stick to your thought process.

To be honest, I have no idea whether I got the best deal I could have; I am comfortable because I feel I got fair value (to our interests) for my money. 

I hope this makes a little sense. 

Mike


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## mikenk (Apr 10, 2009)

Sally,

As you ponder whether to upgrade, you might consider the issue of transfer fees. For Grand Bliss, it is 5 times the current maintenance fee, which is the low end of what it will ever go for on ebay in the future. That is an interesting benchmark for low end of value from a buyer perspective. Logically, you will never be able to buy one for less than that. 

From a sellers perspective, it probably means you will not be able to sell it. On the other hand, your transfer fee on your current GM unit is assuredly less which means you could possibly sell it in the future. For me, this is no issue as I don't plan on selling, but to others, this might be a reason not to upgrade as the GM unit might be easier to sell.

Just some other thoughts
Mike


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Apr 10, 2009)

mikenk said:


> Sally,
> 
> As you ponder whether to upgrade, you might consider the issue of transfer fees. For Grand Bliss, it is 5 times the current maintenance fee, which is the low end of what it will ever go for on ebay in the future.



No - there is no relation between the transfer fee and the low end of what it will sell for on eBay.  eBay bidders are generally only concerned with what the dollar cost to them is to purchase, all fees included.  It doesn't make any difference to the buyer how that cost parses out between seller, resort, transfer company, eBay, or the Man in the Moon.

If the sales price on eBay is less than the transaction costs, all that means is that the seller is going to have to kick in money to cover those transfer costs if they want to be rid of the property.


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## mikenk (Apr 10, 2009)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> If the sales price on eBay is less than the transaction costs, all that means is that the seller is going to have to kick in money to cover those transfer costs if they want to be rid of the property.



Technically, I agree with you. However, my point is that since there is no MF on the Grand Bliss units unless you use, why would any sensible seller ever kick in extra costs to cover the transactional fees? You would just hold it forever. Therefore the buyer will always be responsible for all the transactional costs at the bare minimum. That is why I said that logically the lowest you could ever buy one for on ebay is the cost of the transactional fees - $0.00 to the poor seller, a bunch to Grupo Mayan, a little for title transfer.

Mike


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## pammex (Apr 10, 2009)

mikenk said:


> Technically, I agree with you. However, my point is that since there is no MF on the Grand Bliss units unless you use, why would any sensible seller ever kick in extra costs to cover the transactional fees? You would just hold it forever. Therefore the buyer will always be responsible for all the transactional costs at the bare minimum. That is why I said that logically the lowest you could ever buy one for on ebay is the cost of the transactional fees - $0.00 to the poor seller, a bunch to Grupo Mayan, a little for title transfer.
> 
> Mike



I am a little confused on this post ( am following post as am a Mayan Palace Regency owner).  I too have no MF , unless I use.  I do have to pay an MF every 5 years though, is that the case as well with Grand Bliss.

I really did not want to do any more updates with Mayan but since there are so many changes in the works I may have to go just to hear the low down I guess.  

I like the Mayans, and find they have top notch resorts and service and all but do they have to make it all so confusing.....


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## mikenk (Apr 11, 2009)

pammex said:


> I am a little confused on this post ( am following post as am a Mayan Palace Regency owner).  I too have no MF , unless I use.  I do have to pay an MF every 5 years though, is that the case as well with Grand Bliss.



Yes, except that the fee for every five years is a little higher, 1.5 X the MF. 

Mike


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## ssally (Apr 11, 2009)

*mike..*

still......It would be nice to know the average cost to upgrade of the posters who have done the leap from grand mayan to grand bliss.                                           sally


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## pittle (Apr 11, 2009)

mikenk said:


> Yes, except that the fee for every five years is a little higher, 1.5 X the MF.
> 
> Mike



I forgot about that.  I do remember when we took the tour, the salesman casually mentioned something about the 1-1/2 MF every 5 years for refurbishing the unit (instead of 1 MF every 5 years for the non-Bliss contracts).  The Bliss and Grand Bliss MF are higher than the ones for the regular MP, MPR, or GM too.  That is another reason for this non-golfing family not to upgrade as we already have the no MF unless we go addendum on our contracts. 

I wonder if you purchased one of those resale units that someone just traded in for an upgrade (and often magically appear when you say no so many times) have the new 1-1/2 MF for refurbishing?  You always get a new contract with those, so I suspect they have the new wording even for a MP.  They probably have the no MF unless you go clause too.  That is a popular option that we like much better than the Elite rentals.


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## ssally (Apr 15, 2009)

*hello pittle......*

I was wondering just at what time do you think they started offering grand mayans with the no yearly fees if you do not use clause?


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## Pizza67 (Apr 15, 2009)

Hi Sally, we first started with a MP which we purchased in late summer of 2006 and at that time they offered the No Maintenance Fee unless used (excluding the every 5 yr renovation MF). 

Upgraded to the GM the following year and the No MF unless used still applied.


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## ssally (Apr 15, 2009)

*thanks pizza...*

I guess we just missed that...dang


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## pittle (Apr 15, 2009)

When we upgraded to the GM in April 2006, the contract said that after 5 years, we had the option of no mf unless we used the unit, but then in summer 2007, we got a letter saying that it started immediately and was a permanent option for us, our immediate family (parents, children and grandchildren or heirs).  We also have letters for all but one of our MP weeks.

Sounds like you are becoming a prime candidate for an upgrade!


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## ssally (Apr 17, 2009)

*well..*

It would be nice in that hammock ,they show you...looking at the ocean,feeling the cooling breeze,while sipping one of those frozen margaritas...........ah.


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## stopfraud (Apr 18, 2009)

pjrose said:


> I agree with just getting up and walking away.  That is a problem if they've taken you out on a boat (happened to us once) or driven you somewhere.....
> but even so, say no, stand up, and walk away from the table.  Good for you.
> 
> Note that not every timeshare is like this.  I keep reading about the Grupo Mayan presentations that hold you hostage for hours, but there are others that don't (and don't have to) use the hard sell or lies.



Thanks for supporting "walk away". Unfortunately, I just dislike being rude.

Also: If you meant other companies, you are right. Most other companies are not like that.  But we have not attended any Grupo Mayan  presentations  where we were not held hostage until either we signed or (after 6-8 hours) we were let go without having to be very rude. And no other company bombarded us with so many misleading statements, lies, and unfulfilled promises as the Grupo Mayan sales people.


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## ssally (Apr 18, 2009)

*there are many....*

ways to deal with a rude salespeson...you can stop them dead in thier spiel..I agee there is no excuse for rudeness,but some things thought rude by one culture are not so by others....I do think this is where problems begin. I think grupo has come to the conclusion that the real  hard sell is not the way to go at this time...still the impression has been made.


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## stopfraud (Apr 21, 2009)

pammex said:


> .......
> Now on another note....I am headed to Grand Mayan in ACA in a month.....other than the sales sharks...any tips advise or such in regards to Grand Mayan in ACA or in regards to what I must see in ACA etc.
> 
> Do not worry I am not doing update...already a Mayan Place owner and that is enough.....for me anyway.....I amnot going as owner though but as an RCI exchange!



I can not give you many tips on Acapulco.  We go to Mexico for the sun and the sea.  So we spent most of the time at the resort, which is far away from downtown. We went on a day-tour once which gave us a taste of the city: roadside stops for the spectacular views of the bays, a stop at the Chapel of Peace, a ride down the main “Costera”, the promotional stop at a jewelry store, the flea market, and the Cliff Divers show – allowing time for lunch and dinner on our own.

We spent another day going to town to explore on our own followed by a boat trip to Roqueta Island (which was not really worth, other than the views of the shore from the bay).

You don’t need to rent a car unless you want to drive around the area. Taxi is not expensive and the prices are fixed and posted, but bus is really cheap. Since we like to walk, we walked to the nearby shopping area (WalMart, Mega, Costco) about a mile away (the taxi would be about $3) and from there we took the bus when we went to town (about 35 cents). A bit slower, but not much, because the traffic on the Costera is stop-and-go anyway.

There are lots of good restaurants in the city, but we visited only three when we were in town, chosen because of convenience.  Otherwise we ate in the resort: there are several places with different features. We usually ate a big lunch at Bakal (breakfast buffet is till 12:30 pm) and a light dinner we prepared in our room.

In the resort we enjoyed the spa, the aquapark, the daily free kayak on the lake (unfortunately, I think, none of these will be available to you if you are not there as a Grand Mayan owner) and the pool. Friday & Saturday there is live music in the Lobby Bar and between 2 and 6 pm seemingly  all of the time there is a happy hour somewhere in the resort.

The resort area and the city are safe and I am sure you will enjoy your stay there!


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