# The occasional need to close threads



## pjrose (Aug 14, 2009)

It's too bad when a thread that is informative and generally polite has to be closed because it becomes contentious and/or too controversial.  

Are there any consequences for those whose posts lead to such closures?  Are they warned?  Temporarily blocked?  ???


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## easyrider (Aug 14, 2009)

Yup.. I've been deleted and chewed out a few times but my wife is so nice she hasn't had an issue.


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## Talent312 (Aug 14, 2009)

Wouldn't that depend on whether...
1. The post is intentionally or unintentionally contentious or controversial;
2. Its the poster or the responders who are being contentious or controversial;
3. The topic is an on-going issue that is routinely draws contention; and
4. The level of contentiousness or controversy is low, moderate or high.

Is this post sufficiently contentious to get me banned?


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## pjrose (Aug 14, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> Wouldn't that depend on whether...
> 1. The post is intentionally or unintentionally contentious or controversial;
> 2. Its the poster or the responders who are being contentious or controversial;
> 3. The topic is an on-going issue that is routinely draws contention; and
> ...



The above doesn't seem to me a bit contentious.  I would count as contentious statements such as 
"well since *** (politician, culture) is so idiotic..."
"This is much like Nazi Germany when...." or 
"well, the lame-brained (fill in name of political party) members voted for...." or  
"If you had a clue what you were talking about you'd realize that......"

I think those types of comments should be deleted and those who wrote them should get their hands (or keyboards) slapped at the very least.  We are (presumably) all grown-ups who ought to be able to have a polite discussion without insults.

One of the issues here is that our moderators are volunteers who perhaps have better things to do with their lives than patrol the threads for inappropriate comments and/or rudeness.  (Thanks mods!)  

So back to my question - besides a few warnings in the threads to "keep it appropriate or it'll have to be closed" and the eventual lock, what, if anything, happens to restrict the authors of these types of comments from posting further comments?


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## Rose Pink (Aug 14, 2009)

If someone becomes too ornery on a regular basis, they are banned from Tug.  Some of them try to return under a new alias but they are generally caught.

Sometimes they are given drugs to calm them down and the secret handshake is revoked.


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## pjrose (Aug 14, 2009)

Rose Pink said:


> Sometimes they are given drugs to calm them down and the secret handshake is revoked.



And you know this how?


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## Talent312 (Aug 14, 2009)

Rose Pink said:


> Sometimes they are given drugs to calm them down and the secret handshake is revoked.



I'll take my drugs... I promise. I will. 
BTW, at dinner tonight, acquaintances told me they have a cat on prozac.

On topic: Shunning those who are intentionally offensive is one thing,
but there's a risk in going too far with the "keep it bland" business.
... "I am not a number, I am a free man." -- Number 6


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## pjrose (Aug 15, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> I'll take my drugs... I promise. I will.
> BTW, at dinner tonight, acquaintances told me they have a cat on prozac.
> 
> On topic: Shunning those who are intentionally offensive is one thing,
> ...



What's the risk?  I don't see it, because bland is the way this forum works.  Play Nicely or Don't Play.  I presume there are plenty of other sites for good healthy (or bad unhealthy) arguments.  

If I post a request for how to cook Korean food, I'd like the recipes and enjoy a few anecdotes.  I don't think it would be appropriate for someone to start insulting Korean food, culture, people, me for asking, or other posters for posting.


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## ScoopKona (Aug 15, 2009)

Talent312 said:


> On topic: Shunning those who are intentionally offensive is one thing,
> but there's a risk in going too far with the "keep it bland" business.
> ... "I am not a number, I am a free man." -- Number 6



Well, last night, at my White Power party (held at a Planned Parenthood Clinic), we got to talking about Democrats, Libertarians and gun control, and how it affects gay rights, global warming and Nazis. Then we decided that the best course of action was to use nuclear weapons on that pesky nation of Lichtenstein. We then had a spirited debate about creationism, evolution, and the Equal Rights Amendment. 

Then we got into an argument about who was the best-ever president. (Millard Filmore won.) Then we all got blind drunk on tax-free moonshine (stolen from a DARE agent), and drove to Vancouver to buy legal drugs. From the NAFTA dock, we watched Eskimos harpoon whales with "Second Amendment Brand" Explosive Harpoons, which are also great for home defense.

Then we traded long-form birth certificates and looked at Russia from our windows, before going home to roust homeless illegal aliens from Area 51.



Did I miss anything?


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## pjrose (Aug 15, 2009)

ScoopLV said:


> Well, last night, at my White Power party . . .
> 
> Did I miss anything?



Nope, I think you got just about everything.  You had the discussion you described in an appropriate place for it, which the TUGBBS, by decree, isn't!


And mods - I know you're out there and probably reading - I'm still curious about my question.  What, if anything, happens to those who derail or otherwise lead threads to be closed?


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## jlr10 (Aug 15, 2009)

Rose Pink is correct.  Serious, repeat offenders, in the past, posters have been permanently banned.  The ban continues even if they try to return and pretend they are someone else. 

Some may find these boards bland.  I work in customer service and listen to people complain all day and am pretty much limited to agreeing with whatever they say, no matter how rudely they say it.  Coming to Tug is a nice change, because people are supposed to play nice in the sandbox.  I like that, usually, the most contentions thing I read is a debate whether or not helicopter ride is going to kill me or give me the best experience of my life.   Of couse I am pretty clueless sometimes.  There have been times where threads have been closed and I didn't see anything offensive, or against the rules.  But I am also not a moderator (thanks to all who are!)  and I bow to their judgement and experience in reviewing these post.

They are other boards for spirited or controversial debates.  I like this one the way it is. IMHO


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## Htoo0 (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm on other forums with sections where about anything less than cursing each other out or racial stuff is allowed. Others are more restrictive than TUG. I try to follow the rules but I'm known as a born smart*** so sometimes I say things I shouldn't. I have also entered into discussions which have become contentious. I may try to explain myself but if I see things going downhill I try to remember to just withdraw. (Think someone here has the perfect saying about arguing- particularly on the 'net.)


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## DeniseM (Aug 15, 2009)

Unless you are a spammer, it's pretty hard to get banned from TUG - you really have to work at it!  And some people do!    But besides TUG users,  we ban numerous spammers every day.

Usually, if someone is violating the TUG Rules (see link at the top of the page) their post is edited and they may get a personal reminder of the rules from a moderator.  If it continues, they usually get a few more edits/reminders.  If that doesn't seem to get their attention, they may get a time-out of 10 days to 2 weeks.  If that doesn't work, they can be  permanently banned.  Very few regulars have ever been permanently banned.  I can only think of 1 since I've been a moderator.  Generally, TUGBrian handles it.


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## Icarus (Aug 15, 2009)

Denise,

Tell the truth .. the mods participate in a TUG death panel to decide who gets banned.

-David


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## Carolinian (Aug 15, 2009)

Many sites have dedicated boards for contentious topics, often political.

For example, FlyerTalk has a board called ''Omni'' for every topic not related to airlines, flying and travel.  In the 2008 campaign, the political discussion even on the Omni board got a little more contentious than normal, so they created a seperate board called ''Omni - Politics and Religion''

Timeshare Forums has a seperate Political board that is an opt in board, that you have to agree to participate before you can even see it on the sie.  If you don't want to be involved with political discussions, you simply don't opt in.  There is another opt-in board called the Steam Room, where debates that get too contentious about any subject can be sent to.

Of course, one can simply go to one of the numerous political boards to discuss politics as well.


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## Keitht (Aug 15, 2009)

Icarus said:


> Denise,
> 
> Tell the truth .. the mods participate in a TUG death panel to decide who gets banned.
> 
> -David



That information was not intended to get into the public domain.  It does now of course mean you are on the hit list for elimination - and not just from this board.  You have been warned  



pjrose said:


> I would count as contentious statements such as.....
> 
> I think those types of comments should be deleted and those who wrote them should get their hands (or keyboards) slapped at the very least.
> So back to my question - besides a few warnings in the threads to "keep it appropriate or it'll have to be closed" and the eventual lock, what, if anything, happens to restrict the authors of these types of comments from posting further comments?



Probably one of the biggest problem problems with moderating any board is defining what is and isn't acceptable.  One man's "contentious" is another man's "simple fact".  Deleting content will generally only be done as an absolute last resort on most sites I have involvement with.  Generally locking the thread, with an explanation of why that has happened is also more effective in the long term.

As has been said previously, some people push and push until they are intially suspended and then banned.  They then go elsewhere and complain about how badly they have been treated.   Some even attempt to view a ban as a midguided badge of honour by bragging about that fact.


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## Icarus (Aug 15, 2009)

Keitht said:


> That information was not intended to get into the public domain.  It does now of course mean you are on the hit list for elimination - and not just from this board.  You have been warned



hahaha, I know I'm on the list Keith. I've always been on that list. I just haven't quite made the cut yet. Keep your fingers crossed, I might make the cut one day.

I think there was one person that got banned here a while ago, but I didn't know her. I know some people that I think should just go away, but they continue to post away here, even in this thread, with utter off-topic nonsense.

-David


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## pedro47 (Aug 15, 2009)

The longest active thread at this time looks like on Southcape Resort that started 10/27/08 with 205 pages.


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## Talent312 (Aug 15, 2009)

Icarus said:


> Tell the truth .. the mods participate in a TUG death panel to decide who gets banned.



[Office humor deleted as off-topic]

IMHO, there is a risk in one man's literary wit being misread, but I will concede that its fairly obvious when a poster is being obnoxious and fanning the flames.  Unless the poster is being intentionally dense, a shot across the bow should be enuff to get one draw in their horns.


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## caribbeansun (Aug 15, 2009)

Icarus said:


> I know some people that I think should just go away, but they continue to post away here, even in this thread, with utter off-topic nonsense.



No kidding - it's too bad that people that intentionally post crap on an otherwise interesting and informative thread can't be banned from a thread since their posting is designed to close down something that they intellectually can't handle.   Maybe the tech will catch up and allow thread banning some day.


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## pjrose (Aug 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Unless you are a spammer, it's pretty hard to get banned from TUG - you really have to work at it!  And some people do!    But besides TUG users,  we ban numerous spammers every day.
> 
> Usually, if someone is violating the TUG Rules (see link at the top of the page) their post is edited and they may get a personal reminder of the rules from a moderator.  If it continues, they usually get a few more edits/reminders.  If that doesn't seem to get their attention, they may get a time-out of 10 days to 2 weeks.  If that doesn't work, they can be  permanently banned.  Very few regulars have ever been permanently banned.  I can only think of 1 since I've been a moderator.  Generally, TUGBrian handles it.



Thanks for the info and for what you do


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## DeniseM (Aug 15, 2009)

Icarus said:


> Denise,
> 
> Tell the truth .. the mods participate in a TUG death panel to decide who gets banned.
> 
> -David



Icky - Our system is not really that sophisticated - we just hold a random drawing the 3rd Friday of every month.


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## Keitht (Aug 15, 2009)

DeniseM said:


> Icky - Our system is not really that sophisticated - we just hold a random drawing the 3rd Friday of every month.



A much fairer method.  At least that way the 'winner' doesn't have the feeling that it's anything personal. :hysterical:


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## Talent312 (Aug 15, 2009)

"Up until now everything around here has been, well, pleasant. Recently, certain things have become unpleasant. Now, it seems to me that the first thing we have to do is to separate out the things that are pleasant from the things that are unpleasant." -- Big Bob, "Pleasantville (1998)


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## TUGBrian (Aug 15, 2009)

You really really have to work hard to get banned permanently.  Most people are intelligent enough, and mature enough to get the message after a temporary suspension or two.  The only recourse we have for people that just cant seem to follow the rules is preventing them from posting here either for a short time, or permanently.

Moderators arent your parents, or the police...everyone here that I know of is above the age of 18 making them an adult anyway.  They merely do their best to uphold the posting guidelines that 100% of the people who register here all agree to during the registration process.

Oddly enough, its a near certainty that everyone who gets banned either temp or perm, feels they didnt deserve it despite the fact that they must have crossed the line and been warned NUMEROUS times prior to being suspended.

(this doesnt apply to spammers who get no warnings however)


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## TUGBrian (Aug 15, 2009)

however to answer your question specifically, each time someone clicks the red/white thread warning triangle, a note is sent to each and every moderator and admin informing them of this thread (even with us all, noone reads every post of every thread every day).

If its a cut and dry violation, action is taken right then.  If a grey area exists, or the moderator isnt sure...then a post is made in the moderator forum and a discussion takes place with all of us chiming in with opinions (as was done with the canada thread)...and a decision is made.


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