# Do you think others travel as well as they should?



## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

This is probably my personal issue more than other people's, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts:  Does it bother you when people you care about travel to a place you've visited and know well, and they don't listen or take your advice _*they asked you for*_ on how to make the most of their time there?

My sister is currently in Hawaii, on a "best friends" trip with her best female friend of many years. It's her first (and likely only) trip to Hawaii. Her friend used to live there, and knows it's much different than it used to be.  They're staying in a very nice ocean view room in the Ali'i Tower at the Hilton Hawaiian Village in Waikiki.  (This location was their choice - no other islands or parts of Oahu were considered.) They repeatedly asked me ahead of time for all sorts of ideas of things to do, so they can "really get a feel for the experience" of being in Hawaii.  I gave them a lot of great ideas of things to do, where to go, what to do/not do, and how to really enjoy the trip.  I filtered my suggestions to the sort of things I know they both enjoy doing, keeping in mind their ages (late 60s) and activity levels.

So far, they've done virtually none of it.  They have barely left the hotel, and they have minimal plans to do so.  The most communication I'm getting are text messages with long rants about how expensive the hotel food is, and how there is no microwave oven in the room (or apparently in the entire hotel.)  The beach was too crowded.  The sun was too hot.  The Friday night fireworks show was so overcrowded, they stayed in their room and watched from their balcony.  (Seriously?  Your room is so good you have a view of the beach fireworks and you're complaining that the beach was crowded for the event?) The only things they have scheduled is attending a luau on the hotel property tomorrow, (with complaints about how expensive the tickets were), and a visit to the Waikiki Aquarium on Tuesday.  No "circle island" tour, no Pearl Harbor, no visits to anything with Hawaiian culture, not even a ride around Waikiki on the city bus.  They're not even spending much time on the beach - they're hanging out in the room watching TV, in between sending me complaining text messages about everything.

I'm biting my tongue, and responding with kind words of encouragement, but I'm thinking my wonderful sister may be missing an opportunity to thoroughly enjoy her "vacation of a lifetime."  I'm afraid she's going to be one of those people who comes back from Hawaii and complains that it was just an expensive tourist trap.  I'm doing my best to not be "that guy" who says "What about ____" and insisting they do something they may not want to do.  But if they never see or do anything outside the room, they could as easily have gone on vacation anywhere, for a lot less money.

So tell me:  Am I being insensitive for wanting them to do more?  Do I just keep my mouth shut, smile, and let my sister complain?  I know if I was there, I could show her a fantastic time, so maybe that's my issue - I know what they're missing, and I don't think they do.  My nerves are on edge, thinking they're wasting a wonderful opportunity.

How do you handle it when people you care about don't do what you want them to?    LOL!

Dave


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## VacationForever (Mar 17, 2018)

They made the first mistake by staying at Waikiki.  If they had stayed at Marriott's Ko Olina, they might be complaining less.  MKO has a full kitchen, good views etc. 

There is not much you can do at this point other than reminding them about getting out and doing the Pearl Harbour etc.  If you can afford it, I would suggest that you can work on the timing with your sister and plan for a future trip to Hawaii with her.  I do that for my friends and family.


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## Passepartout (Mar 17, 2018)

As I said in another thread, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink" . You can tell people the things you have found of value at any location you've visited, and then read a TUG post from them about the Wi-Fi being so slow that they can't stream the TV from home.

It's like seeing a restaurant review that the food is so bad that they couldn't eat it, AND THE SERVINGS ARE SOOO SMALL!!!

Oh well.

Jim


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## PamMo (Mar 17, 2018)

On the contrary, Dave, you're being sensitive in wanting to help your sister and her friend have a memorable trip! That's very nice. You just can't control everything, so let it go. Don't beat yourself up over how she and her friend choose to spend their time on Oahu. You've offered your advice, it's their decision if they want to take it or not.


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## mjm1 (Mar 17, 2018)

Dave, I feel your pain. All you can do is share your knowledge and let them take it or leave. I’ve had family and friends do similar things and it is frustrating, but I just let it go.

I like the idea someone shared earlier about taking her along on a future trip, but I would make her do it on her own dime for travel, food and incidentals. However, the risk you run is if she has a bad attitude about the experiences she may have a negative impact on your enjoyment of the trip.

Part of family life.

Best regards.

Mike


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## WinniWoman (Mar 17, 2018)

This kind of thing happens to me all the time. I hate it!


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 17, 2018)

Sound like neither of them takes the lead in their life. It was easy to buy a plane ticket for an adventure that everyone else gave  SO MUCH adoration and praise for taking off and going on .. but the reality of being in a STRANGE LAND is it was too foreign to their existance. Too cheap to pay for tours; too scared to TRY anything; just easier and safer to just watch the TV in the unit..

I sent a good longterm friend to Wyndham Resort Pompano Beach just once .. told him "DO NOT GO TO THE OWNER"S UPDATE ... as it is a hard sell sales pitch". He went, he brought and DID NOT tell me for a good month after he got back home. Then he offered to GIVE me the fixed week points contract. Told him I would be HAPPY to help him learn, but READ the Member's picture book. He told me reading was NOT his thing .. he was a retired elementary school principal with 2 master's degrees ... and I call "Bull ....". He then PAID a company to take it off his hands.

And I decided I did NOT NEED to hear one more time .. how I did NOT help him out... now an EX-FRIEND.


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## bnoble (Mar 17, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Does it bother you when people you care about travel to a place you've visited and know well, and they don't listen or take your advice _*they asked you for*_ on how to make the most of their time there?


No.


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## VegasBella (Mar 17, 2018)

Yeah it does bother me when people completely ignore my advice and then complain. Personally I would probably say something but all I’d say would be something along the lines of
“I’m sorry you’re not enjoying your trip as much as you’d hoped. But please try to keep your complaints to yourself or the resort because honestly I love Hawaii and I don’t want your negativity to rub off on me.”

I feel the way you mentioned about people who visit New Orleans and never leave the Quarter. Or people who come to Vegas and never leave the Strip. But mostly that’s fine so long as they dont complain about it. The complaining is what gets me. 

A relative recently came to visit a local relative. The visitor complained about how much they hated Vegas and couldn’t find anything - ANYTHING - worth doing here. Made my blood boil. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## silentg (Mar 17, 2018)

It bothers me when family or friends come here and tell me what the like or don’t like about Florida. They know all the shortcuts and places to go and when it’s a good time to go to the parks. One relative listens to people at work, who recommend places to go and things to do. Why that person knows more than I who has lived here 30 years is beyond me. I’ve learned to just go with it, let them do what they want. We are here if they want to visit and we will go along to places,  just don’t give much advice anymore because people at work know better than us! ( sarcasm)
Silentg


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 17, 2018)

If I take the time to answer someone about recommendations on things & places for their vacation .. I figure it is their choice as to what they finally decide to do. BUT do not complain to me about the lousy time on ANYTHING I did NOT recommend .. or the rotten weather (like any of us has control over the weather esp if anything .. like high humidity ... a regional thing you did not research). The "I should have listen to you" person will NOT get any help in the future .. good or bad .. I just won't know that location or area .. even if I went there LAST WEEK or LAST YEAR .... "I just don't know".


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## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

Thanks, all.  I understand it's not my fault if they don't do the things I suggested.  It's just frustrating to think they're wasting the opportunity to do something they can't do at home.  Let's get real:  They can watch Judge Judy anytime...

My sister texted me this morning that the hotel delivered a microwave to their room.  Small victories.  (Not sure why it was so important to them - they have no groceries.)  I'm also being told the issues of them not doing things is more about the friend (the one who used to live there, who is pushy and very demanding most of the time), not wanting to do them.  Likely, that's all because she thinks she knows all about it, and isn't interested.  That pretty well leaves my sister hanging in the wind, since this was supposed to be about friends having a good time together.  I think my sister is feeling she has to do the things her friend wants to do, and is being made to feel guilty if she wants to do something her friend doesn't want to.  (Which is another thing I have issues with - taking trips with people who make it all about them, and who don't care about what you might want to do.)

They're currently at the Swap Meet out by the Stadium, so the friend could *save money *on souvenirs.  And *it cost them $57 for a taxi *ride out there.   I presume it'll be another $57 to get back.  So much for saving money on souvenirs!  I am SO done with this.  It's becoming laughable.

I just told my sister that I'll take her to Hawaii another time, without her friend, and show her things the way it should be seen.  She sent me back a huge "thumbs up."  I feel better.  My sister isn't usually one to complain like that.  I'm thinking she was echoing the friend's complaints, which are likely to be regular and loud.

Dave, feeling a bit relieved.


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## silentg (Mar 17, 2018)

That’s too bad.We visited Hawaii in 2016 and will probably be our only trip. We spent 3 days at Kolina and my cousin who lives in Honolulu came over and took us around for a day. We visited the Dole Plant Turtle Bay and the shopping area there.
We booked a trip to Pearl Harbor and the US Arizona. 
We then flew to Maui for a week where we took a trip to the road to Hana. We rented a car on Maui and explored on our own too.
We had very nice weather and enjoyed the resorts we stayed at very much. Also the beaches!
I hope you can take your sister to see some of the nice parts of Hawaii.
Silentg


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## bnoble (Mar 17, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I just told my sister that I'll take her to Hawaii another time, without her friend, and show her things the way it should be seen. She sent me back a huge "thumbs up." I feel better. My sister isn't usually one to complain like that. I'm thinking she was echoing the friend's complaints, which are likely to be regular and loud.


I can imagine how relieving that must be. Good for you (and for her)!


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## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

silentg said:


> I hope you can take your sister to see some of the nice parts of Hawaii.
> Silentg



I've already started looking into taking her next year. She's my only sister, and I do what I can to look out for her.  And I'm always looking for another excuse to go back to Hawaii.  

Dave


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## WalnutBaron (Mar 17, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I've already started looking into taking her next year. She's my only sister, and I do what I can to look out for her.  And I'm always looking for another excuse to go back to Hawaii.
> 
> Dave


Just tell her you're willing to make this personal sacrifice out of your love for her, and that the only thing she has to promise is that she will allow you to be her personal tour guide. Then you can do the circle the island tour, Pearl Harbor, the Punchbowl Cemetery, maybe even a helicopter tour. It sounds like she needs some inspiration, and Dave--you're just the right guy to give that to her!


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## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> Just tell her you're willing to make this personal sacrifice out of your love for her, and that the only thing she has to promise is that she will allow you to be her personal tour guide. Then you can do the circle the island tour, Pearl Harbor, the Punchbowl Cemetery, maybe even a helicopter tour. It sounds like she needs some inspiration, and Dave--you're just the right guy to give that to her!



Thanks.    I definitely know I can show her a better time than she's having with her friend.  

Dave


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## dougp26364 (Mar 17, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> This is probably my personal issue more than other people's, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts:  Does it bother you when people you care about travel to a place you've visited and know well, and they don't listen or take your advice _*they asked you for*_ on how to make the most of their time there?
> 
> 
> So tell me:  Am I being insensitive for wanting them to do more?  Do I just keep my mouth shut, smile, and let my sister complain?  I know if I was there, I could show her a fantastic time, so maybe that's my issue - I know what they're missing, and I don't think they do.  My nerves are on edge, thinking they're wasting a wonderful opportunity.
> ...



Yep, you're being to sensitive IMHO. 

I usually give advice when someone asks. What they do with it is their business and their vacation. 

Now, if all I get to hear are complaints, either from taking my suggestions or not taking my suggestions, I'm a lot less inclined to put any effort into giving advice on future travels. I mean, if you think I'm putting effort into something only to hear complaints, why would I want to waste my time and effort giving someone ideas who either doesn't use them or complains about them? At the very least a small amount of appreciation for the effort would seem to be in order. 

I'd take this as a lesson learned. If your asked again, I'd mention a few things and leave it at that. I sure wouldn't put any time, effort or energy into it again.


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## heathpack (Mar 17, 2018)

lol Dave I totally value your Utah advice and will make the most of it.  

All the time people I know express the idea that they “wish” they could travel like I do.  I do lots of homework though and am willing to try off the beaten path things and plan WAY ahead.  Having FF miles and hotel points at the right times, working timeshare exchanges well in advance, asking for time off ahead of other people at work, plus studying maps and transit times and how I’m gonna get around once I get there.

Then people want advice and 35 seconds into my trying to explain the gist, they are already bored.  Which is fine, some people don’t want to work that hard on their travel plans.  Some of em have great trips anyway.  Some think travel is Meh.

To each his own, I can usually tell who is not really interested and I abbreviate my advice so as not to waste everyone’s time.

Glad your sister will get to go to Hawaii with you, it’s so awesome when done well...


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## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

More thanks, everyone.  I agree I was probably taking this harder than I would have for anybody else.  But now that I've decided the only way I can show my sister "my" Hawaii is to take her there myself, I'm fine with things.  Her friend is a pretty strong character, and tries to make every conversation or situation about herself.  So this trip is turning out to be all about her as well.  Even though the trip was suggested by the friend in the first place, I think it was because she wanted to go, but didn't want to go alone.  

The part that I haven't been able to figure out is they aren't doing much of ANYTHING with their time.  They aren't visiting the friend's old neighborhood, they aren't trying to find old haunts or landmarks.  They're just hanging around the hotel.  I'm someone who is constantly on the go when on vacation, and I don't understand those who just plop down in a chair and sit there.  This is one of those times.  

Dave


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## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

heathpack said:


> lol Dave I totally value your Utah advice and will make the most of it.
> 
> Then people want advice and 35 seconds into my trying to explain the gist, they are already bored.  Which is fine, some people don’t want to work that hard on their travel plans.  Some of em have great trips anyway.  Some think travel is Meh.
> 
> Glad your sister will get to go to Hawaii with you, it’s so awesome when done well...




I agree,  and thanks for taking my Utah tips under consideration.  

Somebody once told me people don't listen to hear what you're saying - they listen only to form their next sentence. 

I'm laying Hawaii plans for next year with my sister.  I think spending a few days on Oahu to see the high points, then spending a week on Kauai to relax and see some of my favorite scenery will serve both of us very well.  

Dave


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## VacationForever (Mar 17, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> The part that I haven't been able to figure out is they aren't doing much of ANYTHING with their time.  They aren't visiting the friend's old neighborhood, they aren't trying to find old haunts or landmarks.  They're just hanging around the hotel.  I'm someone who is constantly on the go when on vacation, and I don't understand those who just plop down in a chair and sit there.  This is one of those times.
> 
> Dave


Funny you said this.  We do sometimes plop down in our timeshare resort and hardly visit places except for FOOD, as we tend to eat out alot.  It is usually the case at areas that we have been to many times and have seen most attractions.  These days, most of our US timeshare stays are centered around golf as my husband loves golf.  Obviously we have wonderful golf back home too.  When we are back at the resort, I get on TUG and my husband in on his computer games.


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## heathpack (Mar 17, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I agree,  and thanks for taking my Utah tips under consideration.  Somebody once told me people don't listen to hear what you're saying - they listen only to form their next sentence.
> 
> I'm laying Hawaii plans for next year with my sister.  I think spending a few days on Oahu to see the high points, then spending a week on Kauai to relax and see some of my favorite scenery will serve both of us very well.
> 
> Dave



Unbelievably I’ve never been to Kauai.  A friend just built a house there too, we’re invited whenever we want.


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## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

heathpack said:


> Unbelievably I’ve never been to Kauai.  A friend just built a house there too, we’re invited whenever we want.



Take your bike.  Waimea Canyon has some amazing trails!

Dave


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## heathpack (Mar 17, 2018)

Really?  This is the person who let me try his mountain bike when we were visiting him in Breckenridge (he’s since moved).  

He had to have back surgery but is doing well, so maybe we can ride a little if we make it out...


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## WalnutBaron (Mar 17, 2018)

heathpack said:


> Unbelievably I’ve never been to Kauai.  A friend just built a house there too, we’re invited whenever we want.


Kauai is our favorite. It's so lush, so unbelievably beautiful. There is no huge shopping area, but who wants to go to Hawaii to shop anyway?? And it features the world famous Kalalau Trail through some of the most breathtaking scenery on earth, as you get to see the Na Pali Cliffs up close and personal. The kayaking, the bike riding, the hiking, and the stunning beauty are incomparable.


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## heathpack (Mar 17, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> Kauai is our favorite. It's so lush, so unbelievably beautiful. There is no huge shopping area, but who wants to go to Hawaii to shop anyway?? And it features the world famous Kalalau Trail through some of the most breathtaking scenery on earth, as you get to see the Na Pali Cliffs up close and personal. The kayaking, the bike riding, the hiking, and the stunning beauty are incomparable.



Must. Go. There.

She says from her lovely ocean view Hyatt Carmel Highlands townhouse with a fire roaring in the fireplace.  Le sigh.


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## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

VacationForever said:


> Funny you said this.  We do sometimes plop down in our timeshare resort and hardly visit places except for FOOD, as we tend to eat out alot.  It is usually the case at areas that we have been to many times and have seen most attractions.  These days, most of our US timeshare stays are centered around golf as my husband loves golf.  Obviously we have wonderful golf back home too.  When we are back at the resort, I get on TUG and my husband in on his computer games.



Just as you say, it's a place you've been to many times.  I can totally see that, and would likely do the same.  In this case, it's brand new for my sister, and should be mostly new for her friend.  They can see the top of Diamond Head from their balcony, so they know they're in Hawaii.  Otherwise, not so much.  I just don't get it. 

Dave


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## DaveNV (Mar 17, 2018)

heathpack said:


> Really?  This is the person who let me try his mountain bike when we were visiting him in Breckenridge (he’s since moved).
> 
> He had to have back surgery but is doing well, so maybe we can ride a little if we make it out...



Time to get out the research books. 

Dave


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## heathpack (Mar 17, 2018)

We went to Sedona last Thanksgiving.

I rode my mtb 6 days and while I was out riding, my husband worked on a project he wanted to make progress on.  Got out a little too, dropped me at trailheads or picked me up.

But otherwise, we did almost nothing.  Two wine tastings, one dinner out.  We sat in the hot tub for awhile one day.  Granted, I covered probably 75 miles of trails so I saw plenty of scenery.  But wow that was a relaxing trip.  We’d only been to Sedona twice before too, so it’s not like we’ve done everything.

Somehow it was totally the right way to do it for that trip, which is really the point of travel.  Experience it until it feels satisfying and recharges you.  So lucky to be in sync with spouse on so much of this stuff...


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## dsmrp (Mar 17, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> More thanks, everyone.  I agree I was probably taking this harder than I would have for anybody else.  But now that I've decided the only way I can show my sister "my" Hawaii is to take her there myself, I'm fine with things.  Her friend is a pretty strong character, and tries to make every conversation or situation about herself.  So this trip is turning out to be all about her as well.  Even though the trip was suggested by the friend in the first place, I think it was because she wanted to go, but didn't want to go alone.
> 
> The part that I haven't been able to figure out is they aren't doing much of ANYTHING with their time.  They aren't visiting the friend's old neighborhood, they aren't trying to find old haunts or landmarks.  They're just hanging around the hotel.  I'm someone who is constantly on the go when on vacation, and I don't understand those who just plop down in a chair and sit there.  This is one of those times.
> Dave



It does sound strange that the friend who used to live there, doesn't want to go looking at the old neighborhood or places she used to know. Maybe she was a little kid and doesn't remember.  Whenever DH and I are visiting a place one of us had been to years ago, we try to go back to check the places of our memories.

I think it's a good practice when friends travel together to have a little downtime away from each other


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## easyrider (Mar 17, 2018)

Even though I plan many things for our trips, the most fun and enjoyment always happens spontaneously. It works this way every where I go. It can happen anywhere at any time, especially when doing things out of the ordinary.  

I really don't offer or take too much unsolicited advice from friends and especially family. I do smile when someone I know buys a timeshare while on vacation for $15,000 - $80,000. They usually tell me what a great deal they got then a year or two later complain that they are having problems using it. They have enough money to do as they like.

The exceptions are my kid and grandkids. They receive all kinds of advice from me. Most of it good, I think. 

I do try to get them here, at the tug forums. Unless I sit them down and actually help them register I think most do not follow through. I don't know what your friends say when you tell them about tug.com but mine usually grin and and give me a hard time. Get it, Tug, hard time. maybe its just a guy thing. For the last decade I always say join timeshare user group. Even though we refer to each other here as "tuggers" I wouldn't dare tell my friends or family that I am a tugger at tug.com.  

Bill


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## DaveNV (Mar 18, 2018)

dsmrp said:


> It does sound strange that the friend who used to live there, doesn't want to go looking at the old neighborhood or places she used to know. Maybe she was a little kid and doesn't remember.  Whenever DH and I are visiting a place one of us had been to years ago, we try to go back to check the places of our memories.
> 
> I think it's a good practice when friends travel together to have a little downtime away from each other



I think you're absolutely right.  My sister thinks her friend may be in beginning stages of dementia or something similar.  She's almost afraid to step out of her comfort zone, and when she does, all she does is complain.  Sad, if it's true, but even more confusing why she would suggest this trip (and pay the lion's share of the cost) just to sit in the room all day.  I don't get it.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Mar 18, 2018)

easyrider said:


> Even though I plan many things for our trips, the most fun and enjoyment always happens spontaneously. It works this way every where I go. It can happen anywhere at any time, especially when doing things out of the ordinary.
> 
> I really don't offer or take too much unsolicited advice from friends and especially family. I do smile when someone I know buys a timeshare while on vacation for $15,000 - $80,000. They usually tell me what a great deal they got then a year or two later complain that they are having problems using it. They have enough money to do as they like.
> 
> ...




Bill, you always crack me up.  

I'm the renegade in the family, as I'm the only one who owns a timeshare.  (Well, technically I own two, if you count WorldMark.) I'm also the most affluent, the most "successful" (whatever that means), and I'm the only one who takes regular vacations.  (See "owns a timeshare", above.  )  I'm the guy *everyone* asks for vacation advice, both in the family, among my friends, and coworkers.  They ask me what I think or know about this or that area, and I always try to help them.  For anyone I meet that has a timeshare, when I suggest they come to Tug for information, I get a glazed stare.  I don't know if anybody has every joined because of my referral. I gave up on scoring a Lifetime Member award years ago. 

So for now, it's all about me.  (Or as my sister's friend would say, "What's wrong with that?"  )

Dave


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 18, 2018)

I found some friends are NOT GOOD travel companions ... others friends can be GREAT travellers.

My one friend seem to complain about me to his extended and far away family --- I and him were living (separately) near Philadelphia; his family lived near Seattle. He must have dished me so bad  ... they SOLD squares on the calendar as to when HE would dump me in Europe during our 2 week independent Euriopean trip. Every email he got ... started off with, "have your dumped Linda yet?" We actually planned a return European trip on the flight home ... which we again had a great time. His mother still hated me ... I guess she thought of him, as her little boy. He never married .. move to Thailand 15+ years ago .. lost contact with him a couple of years later.

Another male "friend only pal" ... known him for years ... I stopped talking to him after a trip on the QE2 cruise and a 1 week bus trip in England. He loved dumping all my stuff on the FLOOR .. because he wanted to use the desk, wanted to put his clothes in that dresser drawer, etc. Plus, whining about the food being strange. Also, he knew MORE than the local guide ... revisionist local history paraphase back to me AFTER the tour... the same tour I was on and standing next to him. And he was a elementary school principal for 30+ years then. I am surprised his Jersey teaching staff never hired a MOB hitman or leg breaker ... he was a total jerk with an inflated ego.


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## loosefeet (Mar 18, 2018)

Agree--some people are NOT good traveling companions.  Tough when you end up in Hawaii and find that out!  I always build in alone time expectations on all trips, so I get some satisfaction from tours/spa treatments etc.
That said--I am sensitive to recommending a timeshare vacation to people.  Many do not seem to get the concept, and tend to give ME feedback on their stay, things they didn't like etc.  Why would your sister tell YOU about no microwave?  She's an adult--ask for one or go buy one if it's needed.  I no longer offer my timeshares to friends/family-they are for me to use.


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## 1st Class (Mar 18, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I think you're absolutely right.  My sister thinks her friend may be in beginning stages of dementia or something similar.  She's almost afraid to step out of her comfort zone, and when she does, all she does is complain.  Sad, if it's true, but even more confusing why she would suggest this trip (and pay the lion's share of the cost) just to sit in the room all day.  I don't get it.
> 
> Dave



I think your sister is somewhat correct; your description has some of the hallmarks of depression.  Maybe your sister needs to speak with her friend's family to see if they could get her to consent to a medical evaluation.  There is very often a medical reason behind behavior like this.  This friend is very fortunate to have a good friend like your sister.  So many people with similar behaviors lose their friends for obvious reasons and wind up not getting the help they need.  Too bad this vacation hasn't turned out as you and your sister planned, but you are a good brother to send her to Hawaii.


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## DaveNV (Mar 18, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> I found some friends are NOT GOOD travel companions ... others friends can be GREAT travellers.
> 
> My one friend seem to complain about me to his extended and far away family --- I and him were living (separately) near Philadelphia; his family lived near Seattle. He must have dished me so bad  ... they SOLD squares on the calendar as to when HE would dump me in Europe during our 2 week independent Euriopean trip. Every email he got ... started off with, "have your dumped Linda yet?" We actually planned a return European trip on the flight home ... which we again had a great time. His mother still hated me ... I guess she thought of him, as her little boy. He never married .. move to Thailand 15+ years ago .. lost contact with him a couple of years later.
> 
> Another male "friend only pal" ... known him for years ... I stopped talking to him after a trip on the QE2 cruise and a 1 week bus trip in England. He loved dumping all my stuff on the FLOOR .. because he wanted to use the desk, wanted to put his clothes in that dresser drawer, etc. Plus, whining about the food being strange. Also, he knew MORE than the local guide ... revisionist local history paraphase back to me AFTER the tour... the same tour I was on and standing next to him. And he was a elementary school principal for 30+ years then. I am surprised his Jersey teaching staff never hired a MOB hitman or leg breaker ... he was a total jerk with an inflated ego.



Linda, you've had some adventures, haven't you? 

Dave


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## DaveNV (Mar 18, 2018)

loosefeet said:


> Agree--some people are NOT good traveling companions.  Tough when you end up in Hawaii and find that out!  I always build in alone time expectations on all trips, so I get some satisfaction from tours/spa treatments etc.
> That said--I am sensitive to recommending a timeshare vacation to people.  Many do not seem to get the concept, and tend to give ME feedback on their stay, things they didn't like etc.  Why would your sister tell YOU about no microwave?  She's an adult--ask for one or go buy one if it's needed.  I no longer offer my timeshares to friends/family-they are for me to use.



This trip idea started with them asking me to help them plan it, since I have all this travel experience.  No firm plans were made for tours and such ahead of time, (my suggestion), because I said they should wait to see what was offered by the hotel, and decide then what they felt like doing. I said if they obligated to do a bunch of things before they arrived, and then learned of other things they might want to do instead, it could be a problem.  Better to wait.  So they did.  But then, after arrival, they didn't plan anything, other than a luau for one night - on the hotel property.  It's not about the cost - that part isn't an issue.  So I'll be curious when they get home to sit and discuss the whole thing with them, so I can hear the friend's side of things, too.  It's only been my sister texting me, and maybe I'm not getting the whole picture of things.

I think my sister telling me about no microwave was as much out of her surprise, as much as anything else.  It's a hotel, not a timeshare, but still, it's the Hilton - you'd think a microwave would be a normal part of things.  But maybe they want to direct people to their on-site restaurants?  Sis did say they brought one to the room, after they asked.  So there's that. 

I don't know what to think of it all at this point.  Complaints about "things" have stopped.  But I think her reality check about her friend is more pronounced now - I'm getting comments from her about her friend's behavior.  So we'll see after they get home.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Mar 18, 2018)

1st Class said:


> I think your sister is somewhat correct; your description has some of the hallmarks of depression.  Maybe your sister needs to speak with her friend's family to see if they could get her to consent to a medical evaluation.  There is very often a medical reason behind behavior like this.  This friend is very fortunate to have a good friend like your sister.  So many people with similar behaviors lose their friends for obvious reasons and wind up not getting the help they need.  Too bad this vacation hasn't turned out as you and your sister planned, but you are a good brother to send her to Hawaii.



I think you're right.  There aren't many family members in the picture, but definitely a topic that needs to be discussed.

Dave


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## 1st Class (Mar 18, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I think you're right.  There aren't many family members in the picture, but definitely a topic that needs to be discussed.
> 
> Dave



Ah, so there you go.  Tough situation for your sister to be in, but ...

I would encourage her to make the most of the time she has left on the island.  I don't know her likes and dislikes of course, but I would certainly feel safe going to the arboretum and hiking Manoa Falls at the Lyon Arboretum, and Diamond Head for sure.   The self guided audio tour at Pearl Harbor is something else she could enjoy on her own.  At the very least go to Matsumoto's for shave ice or to a lunch wagon and buy a box lunch ... simple pleasures.  Just because her friend "has issues" shouldn't prevent her from doing a little sightseeing.  My 2 cents and worth every penny.


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## DaveNV (Mar 18, 2018)

1st Class said:


> Ah, so there you go.  Tough situation for your sister to be in, but ...
> 
> I would encourage her to make the most of the time she has left on the island.  I don't know her likes and dislikes of course, but I would certainly feel safe going to the arboretum and hiking Manoa Falls at the Lyon Arboretum, and Diamond Head for sure.   The self guided audio tour at Pearl Harbor is something else she could enjoy on her own.  At the very least go to Matsumoto's for shave ice or to a lunch wagon and buy a box lunch ... simple pleasures.  Just because her friend "has issues" shouldn't prevent her from doing a little sightseeing.  My 2 cents and worth every penny.



I am in complete agreement.  I'm hearing the friend is giving my sister grief if she leaves her alone for any length of time. So this is starting to become a nuisance.  My sister said today, "What was I thinking?" when she agreed to making the trip.  She'll get through it, but understands it's not going to be an equal time thing.  I told her I'll take her back next year to show her what it's really like, and she likes that idea quite a bit. They fly home in three days.  I am certain there will be a huge discussion after that.  Stay tuned... 

Dave


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 18, 2018)

I took a longtime male friend (not a BF) to Eastern Europe on a returned trip for visit a year later. I did 3 countries the year before but my travel buddy from the prior year .. was only doing 1 country. I had travelled with this longterm friend before .. but this trip was horrible. Only his opinions counted ... and he would NOT listen to anything. All the food was confusing and STRANGE ... the street signs not readable and he was opening all my drawers in the shared bedroom .. just to see what was in the drawer. If I ordered* a* beer .. which I told him I WOULD BE DOING BEFORE THE TRIP for most evening meals ... do not express YOUR personal & religious opinion or else stay home in USA ... he still made sounds, faces and shock his head while saying, "AGAIN?" several times. That made me order a beer (and some nights, a 2nd beer) EVERY NIGHT! 

Tell your sister to do WHATEVER she wants or was planning to do! Her travel friend can stay behind .. that was/is her plan; tell your sister to JUST LEAVE for what she wants to do ... sitting in a cafe in a cafe is FAR BETTER than sitting closed up in a hotel room with the soaps or games shows playing on the TV. Take a tour ... ANYWHERES ... and don't even clear it with _this friend. _aka: go out for coffee and a donut and come back HOURS later... if the friend calls your sister, tell the friend exactly what she is doing ... a tour bus ride, over on the Big Island, visiting the Arzonia Memorial, kayaking, drift boat fishing, shopping in the flea market or laying on a beach watching the waves. 

She should spend 1 full day ... riding around the island and taking 100+ pictures ... for a internet pictures of HER VACATION ... esp if she has 3 days left. And post the best 25-40 on the Facebook .. getting strangers to shoot her in some of these pictures .. so everyone back home asks "Where is So & So?" It is YOUR SISTER'S vacation, too.


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## dsmrp (Mar 18, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I am in complete agreement.  I'm hearing the friend is giving my sister grief if she leaves her alone for any length of time. So this is starting to become a nuisance.  My sister said today, "What was I thinking?" when she agreed to making the trip.  She'll get through it, but understands it's not going to be an equal time thing.  I told her I'll take her back next year to show her what it's really like, and she likes that idea quite a bit. They fly home in three days.  I am certain there will be a huge discussion after that.  Stay tuned...
> 
> Dave



Can't they take a guided tour or something, where they pick you up at your hotel? They'll be with other tourists, responsibility is on the tour company.

Whose got the airline confirmation code?  Maybe your sister should mysteriously get reassigned to different seat on return flight to get some alone time from this friend


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## DaveNV (Mar 18, 2018)

dsmrp said:


> Can't they take a guided tour or something, where they pick you up at your hotel? They'll be with other tourists, responsibility is on the tour company.
> 
> Whose got the airline confirmation code?  Maybe your sister should mysteriously get reassigned to different seat on return flight to get some alone time from this friend



I've been around this tree with them.  Suggested a Roberts Circle Island tour, where they drive while guests sightsee.  No go.  I haven't been told why.  Plane flight is First Class seating. 

It's a complicated friendship, and this trip is a done deal at this point.  We'll do damage control after sister is home and has had time to decompress a bit.  I'm sure the friend will have a hundred excuses and innumerable apologies.  They'll argue, get mad at each other, and not speak for a few days.  Then one or the other of them will give in, and they'll make amends.  They've been friends more than forty years.  This isn't their first rodeo, but it IS the first time they've traveled together without others being there.  

Dave


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## jehb2 (Mar 18, 2018)

Some people can travel to the nicest places and basically complain about everything.


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## geekette (Mar 19, 2018)

Let it roll off your back.  I would ignore complaints, let them ruin their vacation themselves.  "Oh, I didn't see that" is your future response to "I texted you about it!"

I don't go to much trouble for folks anymore, it's a waste of my time.  I definitely wouldn't be available for their complaints.  I also wouldn't later be asking "Did you (do the thing I recommended)?" and definitely not "Did you like it?"

Sorry for your irritation, I understand.


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## geekette (Mar 19, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> The part that I haven't been able to figure out is they aren't doing much of ANYTHING with their time.  They aren't visiting the friend's old neighborhood, they aren't trying to find old haunts or landmarks.  They're just hanging around the hotel.  I'm someone who is constantly on the go when on vacation, and I don't understand those who just plop down in a chair and sit there.  This is one of those times.


I do understand it, I work hard, travel is exhausting.  Sometimes it is an R&R vacation (my last trip to Cabo was a laze about the place trip).   I definitely do not want to constantly be on the go at vacation, that's not restful nor relaxing for me.   I do like to explore but schedule as little as possible to go with the flow.  

Are they somehow nervous about leaving the grounds?   Some people have extreme anxiety in strange places.    If they are complaining about cost, could they maybe be bypassing extra $ things like transport, admission fees, fuel?   Maybe they found something to do that you for some reason wouldn't approve of so are withholding the info?  who knows.  people are weird.

Please don't waste more mental energy on them.  I also wouldn't bother trying to take sis back another time.  This trip was hers to enjoy or not, don't let her wreck your next one as maybe you again encounter "I don't want to do anything" which seems to be in direct contrast to your travel style.


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## Magic1962 (Mar 19, 2018)

Wow, when we went on our wonderful trip to Hawaii, we had talked to friends who had lived there for a couple years (military)  they gave us suggestions on where to go.... where to eat.... etc... another couple went with us and we stayed at the Hilton Hawaiian Village at the Grand Waikikian...  would NOT have had a better location.....  we started checking off the things on the list.... kept txting our friends who gave us the info  and  they couldn't believe what we accomplished in the week we were there.....   Dave we felt like you  this maybe a once in a life time experience for us so we better take it all in!!!   so sorry about your sister not listening....   

                                              Dave


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## DaveNV (Mar 19, 2018)

geekette said:


> Are they somehow nervous about leaving the grounds?   Some people have extreme anxiety in strange places.    If they are complaining about cost, could they maybe be bypassing extra $ things like transport, admission fees, fuel?   Maybe they found something to do that you for some reason wouldn't approve of so are withholding the info?  who knows.  people are weird.



I think that may be part of it.  The friend has a very poor sense of direction, and may be uncomfortable about being surrounded by strangers.  I don't know.  At home she seems fine.  (Well, fine for her.). My sister is a go-getter most of the time, so I don' understand why she's so hesitant to strike out on her own.  But money is not a problem, so I don't know what the whole deal is.  I had suggested a Circle Island tour, where they get picked up at the hotel, relax, and look out the window while others drive and describe what they're seeing, but that was a no-go.  I'm thinking this is a case of the friend dominating the situation, and my sister taking the less-confrontational road.  I'll find out the whole story when they get back.



geekette said:


> Please don't waste more mental energy on them.  I also wouldn't bother trying to take sis back another time.  This trip was hers to enjoy or not, don't let her wreck your next one as maybe you again encounter "I don't want to do anything" which seems to be in direct contrast to your travel style.



As I say, things will be discussed at length after they return.  I'm frankly curious to learn the whole story.

Dave


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## DaveNV (Mar 19, 2018)

Here's a point to ponder, for those who are still wondering what the heck this whole thing is all about:

They're staying in the Ali'i Tower at HHV.  That building is the closest to the beach, on the corner of the resort on the Diamond Head end of the complex.  The hotel *right next door* is the military's Hale Koa hotel.  They have a great beach bar right along the boardwalk at the beachfront.  It's open to the public, and is a great place to relax under an umbrella and people-watch while having a cold beverage. They can look out their HHV balcony and see the bar from their room.  It is, quite literally, the very next place as you walk toward Diamond Head.

My sister convinced her friend to go there to see a different kind of scenery, while still being within eyesight of their hotel room.  The friend agreed.  When they got there, the friend complained about how far of a walk it was, and she just wanted to go back to the room.  They didn't even have a drink first, they just turned around and went back. The picture below shows how far they went from their hotel. (See the arrow)   

I am DONE with them until they get back. This is nuts.




Dave


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## VacationForever (Mar 19, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Here's a point to ponder, for those who are still wondering what the heck this whole thing is all about:
> 
> They're staying in the Ali'i Tower at HHV.  That building is the closest to the beach, on the corner of the resort on the Diamond Head end of the complex.  The hotel *right next door* is the military's Hale Koa hotel.  They have a great beach bar right along the boardwalk at the beachfront.  It's open to the public, and is a great place to relax under an umbrella and people-watch while having a cold beverage. They can look out their HHV balcony and see the bar from their room.  It is, quite literally, the very next place as you walk toward Diamond Head.
> 
> ...



I do believe her friend is starting to show signs of dementia.  Folks with dementia have major issue with being in unfamiliar surroundings, and sounds are distorted (distant, muffled) and all in all bring confusion to them.  Her constant complaint of cost and not wanting to spend money on anything, other than flying first class (interesting), likely goes back to younger days and dementia triggers that part of the brain to act like that.  It is likely that she was very frugal as a child and into young adulthood, either due to family circumstances or she was that way.  

I am glad that you are planning to take your sister back to Hawaii with you and she has agreed to it.


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## silentg (Mar 19, 2018)

Sounds like panic attacks! I suffer from them too! Luckily, my husband is very patient and helps me thru. I also have seeked medical attention. I am coping, usually the most stressful time for me is being at the airport going thru security. Once the plane is safely on its way I’m ok.
Silentg


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## WalnutBaron (Mar 19, 2018)

Some people aren't designed to travel. Others are affected by the effects of aging, as many have suggested. Don't get frustrated, Dave. I suspect your sister is being a good soldier and trying to maintain a stiff upper lip around her friend. She'll see the real Hawaii when she returns with you as her tourguide.


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## geekette (Mar 19, 2018)

1st Class said:


> I think your sister is somewhat correct; your description has some of the hallmarks of depression.  Maybe your sister needs to speak with her friend's family to see if they could get her to consent to a medical evaluation.  There is very often a medical reason behind behavior like this.  This friend is very fortunate to have a good friend like your sister.  So many people with similar behaviors lose their friends for obvious reasons and wind up not getting the help they need.  Too bad this vacation hasn't turned out as you and your sister planned, but you are a good brother to send her to Hawaii.


I would cut ties with a "friend" that went around my back to my family to discuss me.   Why not discuss it with the friend vs sneaking around with a strategy to get her family to do something?


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## geekette (Mar 19, 2018)

I hope sis decides to go do what she wants to do.  I would.   Leave friend sitting in hotel room, saying "I didn't come all this way to see Hawaii from a hotel room!   You are welcome to come with me, but I'm going out with or without you!"  and Do It.

Friend is perfectly safe in the hotel room and maybe it nudges the fear out by forcing introspection.


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## DaveNV (Mar 19, 2018)

geekette said:


> I would cut ties with a "friend" that went around my back to my family to discuss me.   Why not discuss it with the friend vs sneaking around with a strategy to get her family to do something?



I don’t expect anyone will be sneaking around behind her back. If nothing else, this will force the issue to the forefront of discussions with the both of them, after they’re home. This trip was the friend’s idea, and there was discussion at length ahead of time about the sort of things they were going to do. Virtually none of it has happened. There must be an explanation. So we’ll see what develops. They’ll be home day after tomorrow.

Dave


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## geekette (Mar 20, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> I don’t expect anyone will be sneaking around behind her back. If nothing else, this will force the issue to the forefront of discussions with the both of them, after they’re home. This trip was the friend’s idea, and there was discussion at length ahead of time about the sort of things they were going to do. Virtually none of it has happened. There must be an explanation. So we’ll see what develops. They’ll be home day after tomorrow.
> 
> Dave


yet I am still hoping Sis exerts herself to Do Something.  I would, just to not feel like the trip was a total loss.  I try to not have regrets and would not be able to contain my frustration.   I would be having it out with friend while on the trip.  Whatever she's feeling is whatever she's feeling but does sis no good to not know, and then too late once home.  I wouldn't bother with discussions once home, would do me no good and just add to frustration experienced while on the trip.  If friend has no interest in confiding while in Hawaii, there is scant chance that changes later.

Frankly, were I your sis, I would not likely have much of any contact with "friend" once home.  It's over and Never Again would I let her crap on my fun.  There is only so much emotional stress of others that I am willing to carry and once they turn down my offer to be a willing listener, there is nothing else I can do for them.

Clearly, your sister is way nicer and more patient than I am.  I've never been to Hawaii, there would be no containing me in the room and I wouldn't care what the travel companion says, It's My Trip, Too.


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## DaveNV (Mar 20, 2018)

geekette said:


> Clearly, your sister is way nicer and more patient than I am.  I've never been to Hawaii, there would be no containing me in the room and I wouldn't care what the travel companion says, It's My Trip, Too.



I completely agree with your feelings, and I've come to accept that this friendship is very different from any friendship I've ever had.  There is little doubt the friendship will continue - these two have been through a lot over the years.  (Example:  Sister helped her friend through the sudden loss of friend's husband due to heart attack, and shortly thereafter friend helped sister through an unexpected late-in-life divorce from her SOB jerk husband.)  I expect the friend will profusely apologize and reimburse my sister for all her expenses (that's what she does - she throws money at problems), and after feelings are mended, life goes on for them.  I'm an outside observer, and 100% support my sister first, and deal with her crazy friend only when I have to. 

My sister is a tough woman, and doesn't usually put up with much BS.  But in this case, her training as a medical assistant is kind of coming to the fore.  She's a very "Mom" kind of person.  She has expressed to me before her concerns about her friend's mental health issues, and whether she is in beginning stages of dementia.  I understand mental health issues run in the family.

I also feel, based on my own interactions with her friend, that there is a certain amount of depression and bipolar behavior going on, and I think the friend is afraid to be left alone.  The friend's behavior on this trip is VERY different than how she was acting before they left.  I've heard she was overwhelmed at how much Hawaii has changed since she lived there.  I think she expected it would be the same as the Hawaii of her childhood, which of course, it isn't.  Even in the last ten years Waikiki, especially, has changed dramatically.  I tried to warn her it was all very different than how she remembered it, but I doubt she took that to heart.  (Something else she does - selective hearing.). Part of my repeated suggestions that they book a Circle Island tour was to show the friend the parts of the island that haven't changed very much (the Windward side, particularly), but as recently as last night, I was told that was just not going to happen.  I've stopped trying to roust them out of whatever dynamic is going on.

They'll be home tomorrow.  We'll see what happens after that.  I appreciate everyone's candid comments in this thread.  I'll update when there is something to discuss. 

Dave


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## Cornell (Mar 20, 2018)

Dave -- You sound like an incredibly kind brother.  Your sister is lucky to have you.


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## dsmrp (Mar 20, 2018)

I didn't think of it before cause I rarely fly first class , but they have changeable tickets, so could have returned earlier if seats were available. Oh well too late now.

Your sister is a good friend.


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## DaveNV (Mar 20, 2018)

Cornell said:


> Dave -- You sound like an incredibly kind brother.  Your sister is lucky to have you.



Thank you.  We're very close.  Our Mom passed quite suddenly over twenty years ago, and the family has pretty well dispersed to the four winds since then.  Our two siblings live out of state, and we only see them occasionally.  A few close relatives are around, (one of her kids, one of mine), but by and large, it's us helping each other out.  I try to support her in her decisions, but I'm not afraid to give her an opposing view if I think she's not seeing the big picture.  But then I step back and let her make her own choices.  She knows she could have anything I have, if the need arose, and vice versa.  It's what we've always done for each other.  

Dave


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## 1st Class (Mar 20, 2018)

geekette said:


> I do understand it, I work hard, travel is exhausting.  Sometimes it is an R&R vacation (my last trip to Cabo was a laze about the place trip).   I definitely do not want to constantly be on the go at vacation, that's not restful nor relaxing for me.   I do like to explore but schedule as little as possible to go with the flow.
> 
> Are they somehow nervous about leaving the grounds?   Some people have extreme anxiety in strange places.    If they are complaining about cost, could they maybe be bypassing extra $ things like transport, admission fees, fuel?   Maybe they found something to do that you for some reason wouldn't approve of so are withholding the info?  who knows.  people are weird.
> 
> Please don't waste more mental energy on them.  I also wouldn't bother trying to take sis back another time.  This trip was hers to enjoy or not, don't let her wreck your next one as maybe you again encounter "I don't want to do anything" which seems to be in direct contrast to your travel style.





geekette said:


> I would cut ties with a "friend" that went around my back to my family to discuss me.   Why not discuss it with the friend vs sneaking around with a strategy to get her family to do something?





geekette said:


> yet I am still hoping Sis exerts herself to Do Something.  I would, just to not feel like the trip was a total loss.  I try to not have regrets and would not be able to contain my frustration.   I would be having it out with friend while on the trip.  Whatever she's feeling is whatever she's feeling but does sis no good to not know, and then too late once home.  I wouldn't bother with discussions once home, would do me no good and just add to frustration experienced while on the trip.  If friend has no interest in confiding while in Hawaii, there is scant chance that changes later.
> 
> Frankly, were I your sis, I would not likely have much of any contact with "friend" once home.  It's over and Never Again would I let her crap on my fun.  There is only so much emotional stress of others that I am willing to carry and once they turn down my offer to be a willing listener, there is nothing else I can do for them.
> 
> Clearly, your sister is way nicer and more patient than I am.  I've never been to Hawaii, there would be no containing me in the room and I wouldn't care what the travel companion says, It's My Trip, Too.



_Ouch!  That's harsh.
_
I don't agree with any of this at all.  Sis is of the opinion that there are clearly mental health issues involved.  I applaud her for trying to make the best of an unexpected bad situation. It's not so much that "they" didn't take the OPs advice, but that a situation presented itself that forced Sis to make some tough choices.  Sounds to me like Sis is putting out fires and doing damage control at this point.  We don't know what motivates someone to stay friends with "high maintenance" people, but it's not our place to judge.  We should all be lucky enough to have a friend like Sis who is willing to put others first, showing great strength of character.  

I can't imagine why you would want to further penalize her by suggesting that the OP not plan a return trip after toughing it out all week in a hotel room with an unreasonable friend, who according to Sis, has mental health issues.   I think it's great that the OP wants to take her back to show her what she (unfortunately) missed.  

Further, I believe that asking the friend's family to get involved is advocating for her friends health rather than "sneaking around".

One thing I do agree with though -- the OP and his sister seem like kind, patient, nice folks.


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## pedro47 (Mar 20, 2018)

The OP can only give his personal best shot to his sister about traveling & staying in Hawaii ; they have been and will be sister & brother for life; plus blood relationship last for life.
Traveling advice is strictly a personal choice based upon that person frame of reference.

I agree with the above post the OP and his sister are the best of friends.


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## am1 (Mar 20, 2018)

I do not care how others travel.  I do hope they have a good time and make the most of it but it is up to them. I am more then willing to offer suggestions.  I am sure others could be quite critical of how we travel and maybe they are right in somethings or not wrong but I am fine with that.  

I do enjoy letting someone else be in charge up to a certain point so I can just go with the flow.


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## Icc5 (Mar 21, 2018)

For the most part I feel to each their own.  Some people are just happy to go someplace and do nothing.  I had a boss that couldn't wait to go to Hawaii every year,stay in the most expensive Resort and her and her partner would just go outside and sleep on the beach all day.  Had room service bring meals to the unit.  Never left to see or do anything but wanted to go back each year and do the same all over again.
We also have a sister n law that was eager to go to timeshare trip we gave them when they got married.  We told them to pick a place and told them what we had available or to trade into.  We explained how it all worked, she booked the place,time,etc. so we payed for the exchange fee,etc.
About six weeks before the trip we found out they weren't going to go.  We found out she is afraid to fly,go over bridges,go on a boat,drive in mountains,etc.  My wife and I went instead and it was one of our best trips/stays ever.
To this day, 25 years later they have never taken a vacation and she always complains it's her husbands fault that they never go anywhere (brother n laws second marriage.  Him and his first wife traveled all over the United States and he did go with us once to Oregon).  On the Oregon trip his wife called everyday to complain about every little thing.  She is supposed to be on medication but never takes because she says they make her feel bad.  She usually refuses to go to a doctor because none of them know what they are doing and cover everything up with drugs.
We try not having much to do with her because we have found her to be impossible to tolerate or help.


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## DaveNV (Mar 21, 2018)

Icc5 said:


> We try not having much to do with her because we have found her to be impossible to tolerate or help.



Wow. I am so sorry you have to deal with that.  I think the thing in this case that annoyed me so much was the complete reversal of attitude and avoidance of doing anything away from the hotel on the part of my sister’s friend. It wasn’t as if the hotel was a destination for them, it was just a nice place to stay that was central to the vacation they said they wanted. I’ve learned that each time my sister suggested doing anything, her friend said No, and gave my sister a lot of attitude if she insisted on doing anything without her friend. My sister decided it was easier to not argue about it. My disappointment is knowing this was my sister’s first trip to Hawaii, and she has seen virtually nothing. They come home today, and I can’t wait to hear the accounting of the trip.

Dave


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## geekette (Mar 21, 2018)

1st Class said:


> _Ouch!  That's harsh.
> _
> I don't agree with any of this at all.  Sis is of the opinion that there are clearly mental health issues involved.  I applaud her for trying to make the best of an unexpected bad situation. It's not so much that "they" didn't take the OPs advice, but that a situation presented itself that forced Sis to make some tough choices.  Sounds to me like Sis is putting out fires and doing damage control at this point.  *We don't know what motivates someone to stay friends with "high maintenance" people, but it's not our place to judge.*  We should all be lucky enough to have a friend like Sis who is willing to put others first, showing great strength of character.
> 
> *I can't imagine why you would want to further penalize her by suggesting that the OP not plan a return trip* after toughing it out all week in a hotel room with an unreasonable friend, who according to Sis, has mental health issues.   I think it's great that the *OP wants to take her back *to show her what she (unfortunately) missed.



Never EVER did I suggest Dave NOT take sis back to HI.   Dave is amazing, kind and concerned, through all of this.  We absolutely agree on this.  

I am not judging anyone, just saying what I would do.  Think me cold and heartless, I can take it.   But I don't travel a second time with a disappointing travel companion.  Relationships can be maintained at home without going so far away at great expense for significant frustration and disappointment.  I don't travel to Increase Stress. 



> Further, I believe that asking the friend's family to get involved is advocating for her friends health rather than "sneaking around".


we disagree.   Must depend on the family.   I am unlike the others, in no way do I want any of them deciding "what's wrong" with me or "best for me" nor having any control over my medical decisions.  There will not be respect for my wishes, for my way of living, etc.   I do not inform them when I am seeing a doctor.  It's my business.   If you think I have a problem, Tell Me I'm acting strangely, not my mommy.  Could be that I already know and am seeking treatment.  Why alarm siblings that live thousands of miles from me and get them into my business Uninvited?    Out of respect to my friends, I do not share their private info and I would appreciate it if others did same kindness for me.  "Do you want me to help you set an appointment and go with you?" is the approach I would take vs "I'm calling your sister to dump it on her, whether you like it or not..."   For me it is a breach of trust to bring a person's private matters to others.  

There is plenty of room in the universe for different viewpoints.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 21, 2018)

And what I LOVE about TUG ... on topics which have LITTLE to do about timeshares, is the honest opinions .. even ones that are not sugar coated.

Dave like LOVES Hawaii ... and LOVES his sister. It must be just terrible to spend time communciating with his sister 1000s of miles away .. on an expensive vacation .. about a place he LOVES ..  sitting in a hotel room and NOT doing seeing & doing the things he loves. As for his sister, she might be very similar to the Dave we know ... too kind to NOT abandon her friend who is NOT travelling well on this trip .. for whatever reason.

Yes, people whose issues were 'managable' at home, do get more UN-NERVED thousands of miles away. But the sounds and smells of Hawaii is so different from where 95% of the US population lives ... more stress, less ablilty to cover up "the frozen in fear" signs. And as she lived there YEARS before, it would compound the confusion, too.

Dave ... let your sister heal a bit before flying off to Hawaii with her. If her friend has dementia, she might need time to grieve the 'lost' and feel guilty in leaving her alone at back home. But if less stress of being HOME and familiar things .. restores her functioning to a higher degree than she showed on this trip (and I think it will) ... take your sister back to Hawaii soon.


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## DaveNV (Mar 21, 2018)

vacationhopeful said:


> Dave ... let your sister heal a bit before flying off to Hawaii with her. If her friend has dementia, she might need time to grieve the 'lost' and feel guilty in leaving her alone at back home. But if less stress of being HOME and familiar things .. restores her functioning to a higher degree than she showed on this trip (and I think it will) ... take your sister back to Hawaii soon.



Thank you for your kind words.  My sister and I are different people, but we are definitely cut from the same cloth. There is a whole lot of "Golden Rule" mentality in our lives.  We try to treat others the way we'd like to be treated.

In the case of my sister's friend, I expect there will be some sort of confrontation that may involve her family, to get her diagnosis and treatment for what appears to be happening with her.  She has always been a contrarian, but this last week was completely over the top. My sister said today before boarding the plane flight back that she is exhausted, and just wants to be home.  That's a shame, but it is what it is.

As for traveling to Hawaii with my sister, I'm looking at Fall of next year.  I already have two weeks planned there this Spring, and we're going by ourselves.  We've had family along the last two times, and it's time for a "just us" trip. I love my sister, but I love myself more. 

Dave


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## VacationForever (Mar 21, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> Thank you for your kind words.  My sister and I are different people, but we are definitely cut from the same cloth. There is a whole lot of "Golden Rule" mentality in our lives.  We try to treat others the way we'd like to be treated.
> 
> As for traveling to Hawaii with my sister, I'm looking at Fall of next year.  I already have two weeks planned there this Spring, and we're going by ourselves.  We've had family along the last two times, and it's time for a "just us" trip. I love my sister, but I love myself more.
> 
> Dave


My husband and I enjoy travelling when it is just the 2 of us, but we also enjoy having friends and family join us on some trips as they tend to make us do more things.  We are just happy to sit in our timeshare in areas where we go to alot, with the occasional trip out for food and golf.  With friends/family, in a way we all make sure it is not a wasted trip for them, so we all plan activities together.  With company, stress level goes up but fun meter also goes up.


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## 1st Class (Mar 22, 2018)

geekette said:


> ... *Never EVER did I suggest Dave NOT take sis back to HI ... *



Apologies if I misunderstood ... here's your direct quote:



geekette said:


> ...
> 
> Please don't waste more mental energy on them.  *I also wouldn't bother trying to take sis back another time.*  This trip was hers to enjoy or not, don't let her wreck your next one as maybe you again encounter "I don't want to do anything" which seems to be in direct contrast to your travel style.


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## 1st Class (Mar 22, 2018)

Dave, to answer your original question, when asked for help I offer suggestions, but the follow through is entirely up to them.  One thing I've learned is that people have different traveling styles.  I enjoy travelling with family, but like you I like to get out and do things.  Some of the family are quite happy to sit around on the patio and chat away the day.  I enjoy their company but I can do that at home!  Some follow my suggestions to the letter and others ignore them completely.  It doesn't bother me at all because it's their vacation, not mine.


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## DaveNV (Mar 22, 2018)

1st Class said:


> Dave, to answer your original question, when asked for help I offer suggestions, but the follow through is entirely up to them.  One thing I've learned is that people have different traveling styles.  I enjoy travelling with family, but like you I like to get out and do things.  Some of the family are quite happy to sit around on the patio and chat away the day.  I enjoy their company but I can do that at home!  Some follow my suggestions to the letter and others ignore them completely.  It doesn't bother me at all because it's their vacation, not mine.



I'm in complete agreement.  If they had just asked me for "some suggestions of things we might decide to do," I'd never have said another word.  But they were both asking me about every little thing - places to go, things to do, restaurants to eat in, how to get around, what's within walking distance of the hotel, and on and on.  I gave them a lot of time and suggestions, and even wrote them down.  They were SO excited to go, and couldn't wait for the trip to happen.  I wish it had stopped at that point.

But then, they did NONE of it.  Well, not exactly.  They had dinner at the Red Lobster restaurant up the street from the hotel one night - but that's only because I gave them a gift card for dinner there. I chose that one because I knew it was a "safe" restaurant they knew about, and that I knew was easy walking distance from the hotel.  Other than that, as far as I know, the only thing they did off-property the entire week was a trip to the stadium Swap Meet - and that was by roundtrip cab ride to and from the hotel.  At no point did they indicate that were planning to just lay around the hotel.  In fact, they only went out to the beach one time, as far as I know.

It's a moot point now.  They got home last night.  I'll talk to my sister in a few days, and find out what the heck happened.

Dave


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## geekette (Mar 22, 2018)

1st Class said:


> Apologies if I misunderstood ... here's your direct quote:


I stand corrected.  I am surprised at myself but I am not actually myself lately.


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## DaveNV (Mar 24, 2018)

I talked to my sister yesterday. She was still as angry about everything as I expected she was going to be.  The bottom line is she thinks her friend only wanted her along as a caretaker, to help the friend have the vacation SHE wanted, with no place for my sister to do what she wanted to do. But because everything was so much more built up than she remembered or expected, the friend just shut down, and refused to step outside her personal bubble of comfort.  The friend has a poor sense of direction, is easily confused, and (it turns out) doesn't like stairs, or escalators, or crowded places, or strangers, or waiting in line, or anything she doesn't understand - which is a lot.  She's pretty needy, but my sister didn't fully understand how bad she truly is.  This trip was an eye opener.

Whenever my sister went off to do something on her own, after returning, the friend went off on her, screaming about "How could you leave me alone like that?"  Sis said it was so completely unreasonable, she couldn't enjoy herself, and she just gave up, and waited for the trip to be over.  As the plane was leaving Honolulu, the friend got a view of how much more built up things are now. She was shocked, and cried most of the trip home, about how sorry she was that she had ruined everything.  My sister didn't say much on the flight home, because she was just wanting the ordeal to be over.  My suspicion was right - my sister will be reimbursed for her part of the trip expenses.

The friend, meanwhile, has already started making comments about how "When we go to Las Vegas, we'll do things differently."  My sis said her silent reply was, "Oh, hell no!"  She said she's never going anywhere with her friend again.  It's one thing to be friends in familiar territory at home, but she has no intention of ever traveling with her again.  I can't blame her.

When I made the proposal about taking Sis to Hawaii to give her the vacation she should have had, she said she wasn't against the idea, but, "Let's wait awhile before we talk about that.  The wounds are still healing."  I can see that.  Maybe Hawaii is a non-starter, and I should offer to take my sister somewhere else.  

Lessons learned.  The next time someone asks for travel advice, I may just refer them to some resources, and not let myself get so invested in things.  

Dave


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## dioxide45 (Mar 24, 2018)

Our main issue is tire kickers. People asking about advice or trying to help find them a deal with no real intention of going or committing to travel. Depending on who it is, we have learned that for certain people not to put a lot of effort in to it as it is really just a waste of time.

We have another relative that owns an independent timeshare that they currently exchange through RCI. They ask for advice on how to sell it or use it and we offer it, but to date they have only followed one piece of it and that was to combine their TPU in order to extend their points expiration. We have tried to get them to switch over to II, but they instead recommitted to RCI for another three years. Some people just can't be helped.


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## MLR (Mar 24, 2018)

If they ask - I suggest. All the while KNOWING that they will 'do their own thing' and that's the way it should be :0)


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## WinniWoman (Mar 24, 2018)

This is one reason why I do not like to travel with "friends' or relatives unless they agree ahead of time to do their own thing most of the time. Otherwise, they drag you down with them so to speak. It is ok to get together for some parts of the vacation- maybe a dinner out or a particular excursion- but not to depend on doing every single thing with them. It just has never turned out well for us.


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## marijalas (Apr 8, 2018)

DaveNW said:


> This is probably my personal issue more than other people's, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts:  Does it bother you when people you care about travel to a place you've visited and know well, and they don't listen or take your advice _*they asked you for*_ on how to make the most of their time there?
> 
> My sister is currently in Hawaii, on a "best friends" trip with her best female friend of many years. It's her first (and likely only) trip to Hawaii. Her friend used to live there, and knows it's much different than it used to be.  They're staying in a very nice ocean view room in the Ali'i Tower at the Hilton Hawaiian Village in Waikiki.  (This location was their choice - no other islands or parts of Oahu were considered.) They repeatedly asked me ahead of time for all sorts of ideas of things to do, so they can "really get a feel for the experience" of being in Hawaii.  I gave them a lot of great ideas of things to do, where to go, what to do/not do, and how to really enjoy the trip.  I filtered my suggestions to the sort of things I know they both enjoy doing, keeping in mind their ages (late 60s) and activity levels.
> 
> ...





DaveNW said:


> This is probably my personal issue more than other people's, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts:  Does it bother you when people you care about travel to a place you've visited and know well, and they don't listen or take your advice _*they asked you for*_ on how to make the most of their time there?
> 
> My sister is currently in Hawaii, on a "best friends" trip with her best female friend of many years. It's her first (and likely only) trip to Hawaii. Her friend used to live there, and knows it's much different than it used to be.  They're staying in a very nice ocean view room in the Ali'i Tower at the Hilton Hawaiian Village in Waikiki.  (This location was their choice - no other islands or parts of Oahu were considered.) They repeatedly asked me ahead of time for all sorts of ideas of things to do, so they can "really get a feel for the experience" of being in Hawaii.  I gave them a lot of great ideas of things to do, where to go, what to do/not do, and how to really enjoy the trip.  I filtered my suggestions to the sort of things I know they both enjoy doing, keeping in mind their ages (late 60s) and activity levels.
> 
> ...


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## marijalas (Apr 8, 2018)

It is a shame that you have to listen to the complaints.  But you don't have to own it or be upset and don't take it personally, there are many reasons people make  choices.  Can  you relate to this  saying? 
"Not my circus, not my monkeys."


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## DaveNV (Apr 8, 2018)

marijalas said:


> It is a shame that you have to listen to the complaints.  But you don't have to own it or be upset and don't take it personally, there are many reasons people make  choices.  Can  you relate to this  saying?
> "Not my circus, not my monkeys."



Oh yes, definitely.  If you read the entire thread, you'll see things changed over the next few weeks, and the rest of the story came out.  Sis is home and life has moved on.  The biggest lesson I learned was not to be so invested in the actions of other people. 

Dave


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## geist1223 (Apr 8, 2018)

When we have traveled with others we make it very clear:
1. They should always bring their own vehicle or rent their own vehicle.
2. They do not have to do what we do. They are free to go off and do what they want.
3. The corollary is we will feel free to do what we want or go where we want.
4. If it is their first trip to a place or area and we have been their before please speak up and tell us if there is something they really want to see or do. We can usually accommdate them.
5. While we do not say it but if you are a pain the the a** don't expect another invitation. People usually discover this Rule when they are never invited on another trip.


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## Timeshare Von (Apr 10, 2018)

I'm just now finding and reading this entire conversation.  First off, Dave sorry you endured this in spite of your best intentions and caring for your sister.

As someone else said (MP I think?) . . . traveling with family & friends can present some real challenges.  I've learned over the years that it can work out, but only if you have very frank conversations ahead of time.  I also know there are some trips and activities I must do on my own . . . even my DH would be miserable with me which would in turn make me and my experience miserable.

I have had friends ask me, like your sister did you, about Hawaii in particular.  I don't know what they expect . . . I suppose they read travel magazines or travel agency type marketing materials . . . and think that is what it will be.  I rented my Waikiki T/S (which BTW we still LOVE!) to a good friend over the Christmas holiday about 3 or 4 years ago.  I suggested she avoid Christmas, but that was what she and her then 10 or 12 year old daughter wanted to do.

They asked for thoughts of things to see & do, considering they weren't going to rent a car.  They booked everything they wanted to do via Roberts of Hawaii . . . who gladly booked them on tours that I told her would be miserable due to the time of the year.  The snorkeling trip on the northshore was horrific and not safe considering the ocean currents and waves that time of the year.  It was just an unfortunate experience for them . . . resulting in a vow to "never go to Hawaii again!"  YIKES!  how unfortunate.

Anyway Dave (and others) . . . I'm glad we have our little corner of the vacation & travel world here on TUG.  I have always appreciated the willingness of folks here to share ideas and give advice.  I try to help when and where I can too.

Best wishes . . . and carry on.  There are still nearly 8 months of great travel left in 2018!


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## Timeshare Von (Apr 10, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> When we have traveled with others we make it very clear:
> 1. They should always bring their own vehicle or rent their own vehicle.
> 2. They do not have to do what we do. They are free to go off and do what they want.
> 3. The corollary is we will feel free to do what we want or go where we want.
> ...



These are great "rules" to have.

I have one more . . . "I'm an avid photographer!  Yes, on a particular trip I may take more than 50 photos of say lighthouses, sheep or whatever shiny distraction may catch my eye.  It's more than just 'How many photos of _________ (fill in the blank)' do I need."

There are people who want to go through their vacation (and LIFE) checking off boxes.  I want to experience it and document it through my photography.  That is part of the reason why I travel and take so many photos.  Today's digital age with cameras has made it affordable to take as many as you want w/o concern for processing and film costs.


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## Timeshare Von (Apr 10, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> When we have traveled with others we make it very clear:
> 1. They should always bring their own vehicle or rent their own vehicle.
> 2. They do not have to do what we do. They are free to go off and do what they want.
> 3. The corollary is we will feel free to do what we want or go where we want.
> ...



These are great "rules" to have.

I have one more . . . "I'm an avid photographer!  Yes, on a particular trip I may take more than 50 photos of say lighthouses, sheep or whatever shiny distraction may catch my eye.  It's more than just 'How many photos of _________ (fill in the blank)' do I need."

There are people who want to go through their vacation (and LIFE) checking off boxes.  I want to experience it and document it through my photography.  That is part of the reason why I travel and take so many photos.  Today's digital age with cameras has made it affordable to take as many as you want w/o concern for processing and film costs.


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## geist1223 (Apr 10, 2018)

An example. We were on Kauai a few years ago and we toured the Kilauea Lighthouse area. We had been there before and greatly enjoy the views, the birds, and the chicks nesting in their burrows. The couple that was with us walked to the end point, looked around for a minute, took 1 or 2 photographs, and announced they were ready to move on. Patti told them to find a bench and have a seat that we shouldn't be more than 45 to 60 minutes. When we did Waimea Canyon they did not have any desire to hike around at the top. At view Points on the way down they would only need about 30 seconds looking around. They had their own rental car but insisted on going with us so not to miss the sights. It did not help that the wife was a smoker and would have 1 or 2 cigarettes each time we got out of the car. She would stink every time she got back into the car. Now I am a former smoker of tobacco but switched to oderless E-Cigs 4 years ago. Patti and I talked later and realized that most of their precious vacationing experience was on cruise ships. In Ports they would get on a tour bus, go to a site, spend a short time taking pictures, then get back on the bus to go to the next site. Guess who is not being invited again.


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## DaveNV (Apr 10, 2018)

geist1223 said:


> An example. We were on Kauai a few years ago and we toured the Kilauea Lighthouse area. We had been there before and greatly enjoy the views, the birds, and the chicks nesting in their burrows. The couple that was with us walked to the end point, looked around for a minute, took 1 or 2 photographs, and announced they were ready to move on. Patti told them to find a bench and have a seat that we shouldn't be more than 45 to 60 minutes. When we did Waimea Canyon they did not have any desire to hike around at the top. At view Points on the way down they would only need about 30 seconds looking around. They had their own rental car but insisted on going with us so not to miss the sights. It did not help that the wife was a smoker and would have 1 or 2 cigarettes each time we got out of the car. She would stink every time she got back into the car. Now I am a former smoker of tobacco but switched to oderless E-Cigs 4 years ago. Patti and I talked later and realized that most of their precious vacationing experience was on cruise ships. In Ports they would get on a tour bus, go to a site, spend a short time taking pictures, then get back on the bus to go to the next site. Guess who is not being invited again.



I've traveled with those people.  We took an older friend with us to Hawaii about fifteen years ago.  We'd known her for years, and all she ever talked about was wanting to see Hawaii.  Every time we went there she'd whine about how much she wanted to go with us.  Finally, we asked her along.  We spent a week on the Big Island, and then a second week on Oahu.  I kept asking her where she wanted to go, or what she wanted to do, and she always said, "Oh, I don't care, whatever you want to do is fine with me."  So I'd suggest a drive here or there, to see this or that sight.  "Ok," she'd say.  "That's fine."  But every time we got into the car to go someplace, she'd ask, "How long is this going to take?"  It got to be pretty annoying, since it seemed she had other plans for her day, and would just as soon not go with us.  When I suggested that, she never said Yes.  So eventually I decided to do what I thought would be a good and easy time, and left it at that.  

During the time on Oahu, one particular day comes to mind.  She complained about being SO very tired, and couldn't we just go back to the hotel?  I said "Certainly," cut the drive short, and went back to the hotel.  She said, "I just need a nap.  I'll see you for dinner in a few hours."  She went into her room, which was adjacent to ours.

Not ten minutes later I heard the door to her room slam shut.  I waited a moment, and quietly opened the door to our room, and watched as she walked toward the elevators.  She had changed her clothes, was all dressed up, and certainly didn't look like she needed a nap!

At dinner, she was pretty drunk, and I asked her where she had gone.  She said, "Oh, after I slept awhile I decided I wanted a drink."  Turns out she spent the entire afternoon drinking at Duke's in Waikiki.  I said we knew she hadn't napped, and asked why she didn't just say she wanted some time alone.  She said, "Because you always have something planned, and I knew you wouldn't do what I wanted to do."  Excuse me???  The entire trip had been me trying to find things I thought she would want to do, but she had no ideas.  I was pretty angry about the whole thing.

Needless to say, we never invited her along on another trip after that.  And that was about the time we stopped traveling with other people - at least the needy ones.  

Dave


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## x3 skier (Apr 10, 2018)

This thread makes me glad I learned a looooong time ago to do something about things I don’t like and can change and ignore things I don’t like and can’t do anything about .

Cheers


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## DeniseM (Apr 10, 2018)

We invited two different couples to our timeshare in Tahoe - it's funny what you learn about people that you didn't know before:

One weekend we got two units on bonus time and invited another couple.  It was a beautiful summer day and we were having a great time in the South Shore area - but about dark, they started hinting broadly that they were tired and ready for bed, so we took them back, said good night, and then snuck out on our own.  It turned out that their practice was to go to bed very early, and get up very early, so a Saturday night out on the town was out of the question.

Another weekend, we took another couple - turned out the wife was a shop-a-holic.  Any place that we went she had to thoroughly investigate every store or gift shop in the area.  She would go into a store and closely examine everything in the store and buy something in most places.  We got tired of that really quickly.


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## Passepartout (Apr 10, 2018)

Fun reads about others' disfunctional friends. We hang out with about 4 couples here- all retired, childless (at home) and at least 'comfortable' financially. We've invited 2 of the couples to Mexico with us. One is dependent on us for activities, meal planning, etc. They refuse to make any attempt at Spanish, or even hailing a taxi. I feel like the guide of a tour group. The other -though less physically able for such things as long strenuous walks, and 'beachy' activities, would be the first ones in the kitchen preparing delicious goodies, and platters of snacks to share, and the last ones to finish the cleaning up after. A delight to have along. The other two couples, for one reason or another (well, one is a minister and his wife, and the other are politically 'in the opposite corner') we just couldn't come to terms with spending quality vacation time under the same roof.


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## Jan M. (Apr 10, 2018)

DeniseM said:


> We invited two different couples to our timeshare in Tahoe - it's funny what you learn about people that you didn't know before:
> 
> Another weekend, we took another couple - turned out the wife was a shop-a-holic.  Any place that we went she had to thoroughly investigate every store or gift shop in the area.  She would go into a store and closely examine everything in the store and buy something in most places.  We got tired of that really quickly.



I'm not a shopper so that would be the vacation from hell for me!

I do make an exception to my so not shopping on vacation rule when we stay on Sanibel or Naples as there are several really great thrift stores I like to hit on the day we leave to go back home. My husband just plans on stopping and would truly be shocked if I said not this time because we always find great stuff for our granddaughters. My husband is so much not a shopper that he makes me look like a shopaholic by comparison but even he has fun looking for stuff for the girls at those stores. Last year at the one store they had just put out what must have been a whole bag Justice brand girls clothes in our older granddaughter's size that someone brought in. Some of the things still had the tags on them and most of the things that didn't have the store price tags still looked brand new. There was so much to choose from that I could be picky. Our son and DIL are always so impressed with what we find for their girls. Before she started kindergarten this year I would bring our older granddaughter for "her vacations" with us 3-4 times a year so our house is well stocked with stuff for her to do thanks to thrift stores. The younger granddaughter will be 2 in June and soon old enough to start having "her vacations" with Grandma and Papa. When our son and his family came down for vacation the first week of January his wife was astounded and now truly understands why the oldest loves her vacations with us. She hadn't been down since the older one was a baby and couldn't believe all the fun stuff we have for the girls: toys, dolls with lots of clothes, books, art supplies, stuffed animals, bikes, scooters, pool toys.


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## Talent312 (Apr 11, 2018)

I was concerned when friends invited themselves along on our cruise.
I was alarmed when they booked a cabin next door to ours.
I was annoyed that we'd be spending every day of a 12-day cruise with them.

Then we started to plan our activities together and it seemed okay.
Now, I'm irritated that they cancelled for "health reasons," so they say.
Maybe they were intentionally stringing us along on porpoise. <sigh>

.


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## VacationForever (Apr 11, 2018)

Talent312 said:


> I was concerned when friends invited themselves along on our cruise.
> I was alarmed when they booked a cabin next door to ours.
> I was annoyed that we'd be spending every day of a 12-day cruise with them.
> 
> ...



LOL.


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## easyrider (Apr 11, 2018)

We have been very lucky regarding people that travel with us. I like them all and most of the time I think they like me too.

Bill


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## lvhmbh (Apr 11, 2018)

Strangest for me when we invited a couple along and the woman rearranged the entire kitchen.  I saw her doing it and couldn't believe it!  When they left I put it all back lol!


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## geist1223 (Apr 11, 2018)

Patti always re-organizes the kitchen to suit her cooking style. Simple things like putting the coffee cups in the cupboard above the coffee pot and not on the other side of the kitchen. Cooking utensils in the drawer next to the stove, etc.


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## clifffaith (Apr 11, 2018)

DeniseM said:


> We invited two different couples to our timeshare in Tahoe - it's funny what you learn about people that you didn't know before:
> 
> 
> Another weekend, we took another couple - turned out the wife was a shop-a-holic.  Any place that we went she had to thoroughly investigate every store or gift shop in the area.  She would go into a store and closely examine everything in the store and buy something in most places.  We got tired of that really quickly.



At least she bought something! We had friends with us on a short trip to Solvang, CA ( we go every year, Cliff sits in the room with his computer while I go in all the shops) and the wife would spend 30 minutes in a store carefully perusing the merchandise, and then not buy a thing. After two hours and only a half a dozen stores in a tourist town with many, many more shops, I couldn't stand the snails pace shopping without buying anymore so begged off with an invented headache and went back to the timeshare (I unfortunately get migraines, but the upside is no one questions me if I invent a headache). The rest of the group returned 90 minutes later and when Cliff came into our bedroom his first comment was he'd never seen a woman shop so carefully for so long and not buy a thing!


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## sun starved Gayle (Apr 11, 2018)

I am the "travel agent" for a group of five couples. We started going on a rafting trip with our families when our kids were young, the same time every year for the last 15 years or so and have branched out from there, into week-end empty-nester trips together. 

Talk about herding cats ! After our first trip, not scheduling activities and wasting half the day deciding what to do, I started researching and making a suggested itinerary of what to do and where to eat. Nobody HAS to do any of it, but most do. And yes, I admit I enjoy doing it, I guess I am a wanna-be travel agent . I generally find some deal on Travelzoo and Groupon and go from there. There is one chronic complainer, but she is also the one that says "when are you going to plan another trip for all of us ?" Go figure.

We have done a couple timeshare trips with other couples. One trip to Hawaii involved the other family arriving first, us staying in their unit one night and then moving to our own unit. I made all the arrangements, and got them a super deal with a South African unit trade which was very cheap. (Remember those good old days?) When we arrived after a long flight with two kids in tow, they were not at the resort, not answering their cell, and the management did not want to let us in the room. They had left no message for us or about us at the front desk. We finally got the resort to let us in the unit because we knew the other couple's address. I think the front desk also felt sorry for us. When they finally got back to the unit, they had purchased dinner makings for themselves but not for us and our family. I was a little taken back at their thoughtlessness, to say the least. We don't travel with them anymore !


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 11, 2018)

I went with a causal (known for years) male friend (no romance intended or wanted) to East Europe for 2 weeks. It was just creepy with his quirks ... emptying my stuff out of the single drawer I had chosen by dumping my possessions on the floor and answering my "What gives?" with a "I wanted that drawer". Taking a tour, he questioned the guide about nonsense nonstop ... he had done NO READING or RESEARCH, and he seemed to try making 'jokes' out of the guide's facts. He HAD to speak LOUDLY claiming his hearing was bad but could hear a comment 'under my breathe' at 50 paces. Tried NO LOCAL meals but ate every 'sweet' item he saw. I swear he was trying out for the part of "Ugly American" with everyone.


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## bbodb1 (Apr 11, 2018)

Dave,

A very interesting thread for several reasons as we have never traveled with anyone except our kids.  I think after reading this, I'm really glad we have yet to deviate from that plan!  

I know more serious topics have been discussed in this thread but I am curious about the cost(s) associated with visiting Hawaii once you get there.  We've never visited Hawaii for many reasons (mainly the travel costs being what they are) and that alone has pretty much put the kibosh on any further consideration.  But the more I read about Hawaii - especially the hiking opportunities there (and including the wonderfully sounding description earlier in this thread) the possibility might come back into play once again.  Is there a place on Hawaii for a vacation that wants to hike primarily, access the beach secondarily and see Pearl Harbor (the one definite must for me)?  

Again, pardon me for intruding in this thread but it sounds like there is a LOT of knowledge available here.  

Thanks!


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## DaveNV (Apr 11, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Dave,
> 
> A very interesting thread for several reasons as we have never traveled with anyone except our kids.  I think after reading this, I'm really glad we have yet to deviate from that plan!
> 
> ...



If you're a hiker, you can find great hikes on each of the main four islands.  It all depends on how invested you'd like to be.

If Pearl Harbor is a planned destination, then Oahu would be on your list.  Hiking the Ko'olau Trail on Oahu is a dream for many good hikers.  The Ko'olau Mountains form the central backbone of the island, and are easy to get to from several directions.  Check this article:  https://www.hawaiimagazine.com/content/hikers-journey-over-oahus-koolau-mountain-trails

Hiking on Kauai is awesome - every skill level, and every kind of hiking can be addressed - beach hikes, forest hikes, open trail hikes - you can find them all on Kauai.  As a quieter island, (less crowded, more rural than the others), if a relaxing vacation on a nice island with awesome beaches, then Kauai should be added to your list.  Check this website:  http://www.kauai.com/hikes

Hiking Maui is easy, if you plan for it. Maui can be very busy, and it can be nice to get away from the crowds.  See this site:  https://thesnorkelstore.com/4-spectacular-hikes-can-maui/

Hiking on the Big Island is very diverse - beaches, lava fields, mountains - you can find it all there.  See this page:  http://www.bigislandhikes.com

As you can see, there is plenty to go around, and you can find the perfect hike to suit yourself.  My personal opinion is if you want to hike with your family, fly to Oahu for a few days.  See Pearl Harbor and some of the local historic sites (Iolani Palace and Bishop Museum are very important places you should see, to balance the US military sites at Pearl Harbor with great information about the Hawaiian people, and how the islands were before and after the missionaries arrived.)  But then fly to another island for the bulk of your vacation - I'd recommend Kauai. You can vacation there for a lot less money than on the other islands.   It's quieter, very scenic, has a genuine population of very friendly people, and is an outdoor lover's dream.  Do a bit of research, and see if you don't agree.

Have fun!

Dave


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## bbodb1 (Apr 11, 2018)

Thank you very much, Dave!  I have book marked those links.


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## DaveNV (Apr 11, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Thank you very much, Dave!  I have book marked those links.



I found those with very brief Google searches.  If you dig a bit deeper, you're likely to find even better pages.  But these will give you an idea of what's there waiting for you.

Dave


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## 1st Class (Apr 12, 2018)

Volcanoes National Park is another not to be missed gem IMO.  We were standing near a trail head looking at a guidebook when we were approached by a park ranger who offered valuable suggestions.  We wound up hiking through the rain forest right down to the crater floor and on the way back up passed the Thurston Lava Tubes!  Awesome!  Interestingly, DH's cell phone rang while on the crater floor -- who knew there is cell service down there!  We found the rangers offer a wealth of information for the asking.


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## WinniWoman (Apr 13, 2018)

bbodb1 said:


> Dave,
> 
> A very interesting thread for several reasons as we have never traveled with anyone except our kids.  I think after reading this, I'm really glad we have yet to deviate from that plan!
> 
> ...




Hawaii is absolutely awesome! The main expense is renting a car and possibly the flights- including the small planes between the islands. We did not eat out except one Luau- we went to the food stores- yes - food is expensive but we did fine. Most things that were free- beaches, snorkeling- wow!, sight seeing. We have been to all the main islands and loved them all.

Oh- but one expensive thing we did on the Big Island was the tour up Mauna Kea for sunset and star gazing- the most fascinating and memorable excursion ever!!  

https://maunakea.com/

I agree about seeing Hawaii Volcanoes National Park- incredible.

Your really should try to go.


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## DeniseM (Apr 13, 2018)

> *small planes* between the islands.



Just to clarify the post above for newbies - at this time, only Mokulele Air flys_ small_ commerical planes between islands.  Hawaiian Air is the primary interisland airline, and they use jets with 120-128 seats.  Mokulele has a poor customer service/on-time record and I probably wouldn't fly with them if I could avoid it.


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## WinniWoman (Apr 13, 2018)

DeniseM said:


> Just to clarify the post above for newbies - at this time, only Mokulele Air flys_ small_ commerical planes between islands.  Hawaiian Air is the primary interisland airline, and they use jets with 120-128 seats.  Mokulele has a poor customer service/on-time record and I probably wouldn't fly with them if I could avoid it.
> 
> View attachment 6194




Right- I meant Hawaiian Air.


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