# Adding to Diamond Resorts - Hawaii Collection points



## Chris Holme (Jun 27, 2017)

Hello,

My wife and I are currently Silver Loyalty members of Diamond Resorts, we own 15,000 points in the Hawaii Collection and are THE Club members.  Overall we are happy with Diamond and their system.  We would like to upgrade to Gold membership.  We purchased out original timeshare before it was Diamond on the secondary market, then bought a small amount of points retail to bring us to our current level.  I think we are into it for about $15,000 total.  Their sales pitch is that to upgrade to Gold we need to buy an additional 15,000 points for about $54,000.00... which isn't going to happen.  I have seen Hawaii Collection points on the resale market for A LOT less.

My questions is, if we buy an additional 15,000 point (enough to get us to Gold) will Diamond actually let us do that?  We are already THE Club members, how will secondary market points interact with our existing points?


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## nuwermj (Jun 27, 2017)

Resale points do not qualify for loyalty benefits. But...

You could acquire 10,000 resale points and then at some future date purchase 5,000 retail points and at that time have the 10,000 qualify for loyalty levels. (Diamond's sale rule is that you must purchase 50% of what you want to qualify for Club benefits.) Such a strategy would reduce you cost to $18,000.


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## Eileen A. (Jun 27, 2017)

Just attended an owner update in Sedona last week and was told that they no longer allow
you to bring in a resale by buying 50% of the points.  Only company purchased points will
count toward loyalty status.  So double check before you buy thinking you can bring the points
into Club.  Was told this was a change Apollo made when they purchased Diamond.

I'm already platinum and they offered to convert our Kaanapali
Beach Club deed into US collection if we purchased an additional 8,500 points for $74,000!!!
Of course when we said no they found a loophole to lower the price - we cut them off and
said we were not interested so never heard their final offer.

According to the saleswomen they will not sell less than 8,500 and the price is something like
$8.60 per point. 

I can't believe anyone would pay these crazy prices.


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## artringwald (Jun 30, 2017)

What specific gold level features sound attractive to you? You might want to ask here if any gold members have been able to take advantage of the features that interest you. Keep in mind, none of the gold level features are guaranteed in writing. If you just want more points, buy them on the resale market.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Aug 5, 2017)

There is a week in Maui for sale. How does that work? Is it easy to get being a floating week or do point owners have priority?


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## winger (Aug 6, 2017)

Good point about loyalty benefits always subject to change, and I would guess the changes more likely than not would devalue the membership.


artringwald said:


> What specific gold level features sound attractive to you? You might want to ask here if any gold members have been able to take advantage of the features that interest you. Keep in mind, none of the gold level features are guaranteed in writing. If you just want more points, buy them on the resale market.[/QUOTE


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## csalter2 (Aug 27, 2017)

Chris Holme said:


> Hello,
> 
> My wife and I are currently Silver Loyalty members of Diamond Resorts, we own 15,000 points in the Hawaii Collection and are THE Club members.  Overall we are happy with Diamond and their system.  We would like to upgrade to Gold membership.  We purchased out original timeshare before it was Diamond on the secondary market, then bought a small amount of points retail to bring us to our current level.  I think we are into it for about $15,000 total.  Their sales pitch is that to upgrade to Gold we need to buy an additional 15,000 points for about $54,000.00... which isn't going to happen.  I have seen Hawaii Collection points on the resale market for A LOT less.
> 
> My questions is, if we buy an additional 15,000 point (enough to get us to Gold) will Diamond actually let us do that?  We are already THE Club members, how will secondary market points interact with our existing points?




I would suggest that you think seriously about moving to Gold. First, only go to gold if you need the points to vacation. If you need the points for vacation then fine, buy them. However, you can get them resale for much cheaper.  Remember, your maintenances will be higher every year and PERMANENTLY.  Also, look at the differences in the benefits between Silver and Gold. Is there that much of a difference for you to pay all that extra money. Will you lose all of the benefits or some of them and are those benefits worth the extra money in maintenance fees.

More often than not, it's not worth it.


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## Rich1946 (Sep 1, 2017)

I just attended update in Branson Mo and the sales consultant was saying that DRI would convert my unused point to cash each year and I would receive a check.  He quoted $.27 cents per point.  That would be enough to pay my annual fees and still use a week at most US resorts.  This sounds too good to be true.


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## Talya (Sep 6, 2017)

I own a Sampler with 20,000 points. Can I sell those points? If so, how does that work?


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## RLS50 (Sep 6, 2017)

Rich1946 said:


> I just attended update in Branson Mo and the sales consultant was saying that DRI would convert my unused point to cash each year and I would receive a check.  He quoted $.27 cents per point.  That would be enough to pay my annual fees and still use a week at most US resorts.  This sounds too good to be true.


I believe you were told a lie.   In fact this might be the #1 lie told to people.  The idea that they can cash in unused points for cash up to .30cents per point.  It just isn't true.

If what this guy told you was true is should be in writing.   If it isn't in writing ask the agent why he is deviating from the printed material.  Something Diamond agreed not to do as part of their Clarity program.


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## pierrepierre (Feb 21, 2018)

We are platinum with Diamond and you are correct...GET IT IN WRITING. After purchasing last small amt. of  pts., got home and what was told to us, we could not find on the web site, that was October 2017.  I have learned this lesson more than once...


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## pedro47 (Feb 21, 2018)

Rich1946 said:


> I just attended update in Branson Mo and the sales consultant was saying that DRI would convert my unused point to cash each year and I would receive a check.  He quoted $.27 cents per point.  That would be enough to pay my annual fees and still use a week at most US resorts.  This sounds too good to be true.


That salesperson lips were moving. Hopefully, in future sales at the final sale interviewer all that the salesperson stated in their sales pitch will now be recorded  by Sales Mgr & buyer.


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## geist1223 (May 16, 2018)

Resell Points will not count for loyalty levels.


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## DRIless (May 21, 2018)

artringwald said:


> What specific gold level features sound attractive to you? You might want to ask here if any gold members have been able to take advantage of the features that interest you. Keep in mind, none of the gold level features are guaranteed in writing. If you just want more points, buy them on the resale market.



Aren't they all guaranteed in writing, but all subject to change by DRI as are all the rules of THE Club?


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## DRIless (May 21, 2018)

RLS50 said:


> I believe you were told a lie.   In fact this might be the #1 lie told to people.  The idea that they can cash in unused points for cash up to .30cents per point.  It just isn't true.
> If what this guy told you was true is should be in writing.   If it isn't in writing ask the agent why he is deviating from the printed material.  Something Diamond agreed not to do as part of their Clarity program.


The only way I know that they give you back .30/pt is when, as a Diamond Loyalty member you spend the .30/point on overpriced vacation Packages/tours for which only a small portion can account for the total purchase price.  As in go get the package elsewhere and save lots of money.  (Almost) All cash-ins of points are losing propositions for the owner, the best use of points is for their original purpose, condo stays.


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## DRIless (May 21, 2018)

Talya said:


> I own a Sampler with 20,000 points. Can I sell those points? If so, how does that work?


I'm sure they cannot be sold outright.  You could certainly make reservations for your friends on TUG or elsewhere if they allow you a guest certificate on the reservation.  Read the rules.


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## DRIless (May 21, 2018)

Everything is negotiable to a point, I don't believe they won't bring a unit into THE Club if you buy the right number of points.



pedro47 said:


> That salesperson lips were moving. Hopefully, in future sales at the final sale interviewer all that the salesperson stated in their sales pitch will now be recorded  by Sales Mgr & buyer.





geist1223 said:


> Resell Points will not count for loyalty levels.


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## nuwermj (May 21, 2018)

DRIless said:


> Aren't they all guaranteed in writing, but all subject to change by DRI as are all the rules of THE Club?



No. The contract is between the member and the Member Association. The only guarantee in that contract is access to accommodations held in the Association's trust fund. Then the Association contracts with The Club to provide benefits to Association members. It's just like contracting with a third party for reservation services. This is why (and how) Club membership does not transfer with the resale of the points.


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## JohnPaul (May 22, 2018)

OK.  I give up.  What is THE Club?


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## artringwald (May 22, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> OK.  I give up.  What is THE Club?


Diamond had 4 types of ownerships. 1) The most basic one is ownership of a deeded week at a specific resort without membership in the Club. 2) The Club is like an exchange program within Diamond resorts. If you join the Club and add your deeded week to the Club, Diamond give you points for that week and you can use the points to book at any resort that is also in the Club. 3) You can buy points from Diamond. The point are part of a trust or collection of a limited number of resorts. The trust owns the deeded weeks at those resorts, and you can use your points to book any resort in the collection. When you buy points from Diamond, it includes membership in the Club, so you can also use the points to book Diamond resorts outside the collection. 4) If you sell your points, the Club membership is not transferable. The buyer will only be able to use the points to book resorts within the trust's collection. Resale points are also called dirty points because you can't use them outside the collection. You can negotiate with Diamond to put the points into the Club so you can use them anywhere, but that usually requires buying more points from Diamond at their highly inflated prices. Owner's of points find them difficult to sell because the Club membership is not transferable, and because the overhead of managing the trust's collection makes the maintenance fees unusually high.

The more points you have in the Club (not counting dirty points), the higher the tier level, silver, gold, platinum, etc. There are more perks as the tier levels get higher, but Diamond can change the level thresholds and number of perks whenever they want. Confused? They want you to be confused. It's easier to talk you into buying more points. They don't sell deeded weeks anymore, but you can buy them on the resale market. If you find a Diamond property you like and you plan to go there every year, deeded weeks are the best way to go. You can also exchange deeded weeks through RCI or Interval International and deeded weeks are easier to sell. Points do have the advantage of flexibility. It's easy to book any number of days, sometimes on short notice, and there's a large variety of resorts.


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## geist1223 (May 22, 2018)

I believe Diamond also now has an internal exchange program for people that own Deeded Weeks. I don`t know the particulars because we do not own a Deeded Week.


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## Almond123 (May 22, 2018)

Yes, they now have a program called Diamond Xchange and it seems to be becoming popular for weeks owners like myself.  I used it this year and it worked pretty well and so far I don't see any issues with it.  

Of course I won't go to the new destination till next year so time will tell.  YMMV.


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## DRIless (May 23, 2018)

Is there any verbiage in your exchange agreement that requires you to do a tour/sales presentation as a condition of use of Diamond Xchange?


Almond123 said:


> Yes, they now have a program called Diamond Xchange and it seems to be becoming popular for weeks owners like myself.  I used it this year and it worked pretty well and so far I don't see any issues with it.
> 
> Of course I won't go to the new destination till next year so time will tell.  YMMV.



The program seems like being in THE Club w/o being in THE Club, as it is for owners of deeded DRI weeks only, not like Club Select where you can bank/PIC a generic timeshare week as a member.  I'd think they would require you to do an update as a way to convince you to convert?


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## Almond123 (May 23, 2018)

There was nothing in writing that said any presentation was required and there is nothing in the rules about it either. You can view the rules on the exchange website. 

As far as I know there is no requirement for a presentation.


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## artringwald (May 23, 2018)

DRIless said:


> The program seems like being in THE Club w/o being in THE Club, as it is for owners of deeded DRI weeks only, not like Club Select where you can bank/PIC a generic timeshare week as a member.  I'd think they would require you to do an update as a way to convince you to convert?



Diamond Xchange program isn't as flexible as THE Club. You trade one week for another week at different resort with a unit in the same tier. You can pay more to get a unit in a higher tier. THE Club lets you stay any number of days at any resort and any view category.


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## DRIless (May 23, 2018)

artringwald said:


> Diamond Xchange program isn't as flexible as THE Club. You trade one week for another week at different resort with a unit in the same tier. You can pay more to get a unit in a higher tier. THE Club lets you stay any number of days at any resort and any view category.


Thanks, I do understand how it works with full weeks and tiers and I own deeded weeks but they're all in THE Club; and as a Charter member of Club Sunterra, I know the ins and outs of THE Club.

I'd think they would require you to do an update as a way to convince you to convert?  Do they?


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## artringwald (May 23, 2018)

DRIless said:


> Thanks, I do understand how it works with full weeks and tiers and I own deeded weeks but they're all in THE Club; and as a Charter member of Club Sunterra, I know the ins and outs of THE Club.
> 
> I'd think they would require you to do an update as a way to convince you to convert?  Do they?



I'm not sure what you mean by convert. I own a deeded week in THE Club, and 2 out of THE Club. They've tried to sell me more points so I could put the 2 weeks into THE Club, but they've never tried to do anything with the one that's already in THE Club. At times I've been tempted to cancel THE Club membership and just use the weeks. For now, we always use our 2 weeks at our home resort (Point at Poipu), and use our Club points for several other locations.


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## DRIless (May 24, 2018)

Convert the deeded weeks to THE Club membership, means to me, pledging my deeded week(s) and receiving points every year.  I did not give up deeded week ownership or deeded week maintenance fees.   That's how I got my original points membership.  




DRIless said:


> Thanks, I do understand how it works with full weeks and tiers and I own deeded weeks but they're all in THE Club; and as a Charter member of Club Sunterra, I know the ins and outs of THE Club.
> 
> I'd think they would require you to do an update as a way to convince you to convert?  Do they?





artringwald said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by convert. I own a deeded week in THE Club, and 2 out of THE Club. They've tried to sell me more points so I could put the 2 weeks into THE Club, but they've never tried to do anything with the one that's already in THE Club. At times I've been tempted to cancel THE Club membership and just use the weeks. For now, we always use our 2 weeks at our home resort (Point at Poipu), and use our Club points for several other locations.


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## nuwermj (May 24, 2018)

DRIless said:


> Convert the deeded weeks to THE Club membership, means to me, pledging my deeded week(s) and receiving points every year.  I did not give up deeded week ownership or deeded week maintenance fees.   That's how I got my original points membership.



Diamond calls this an "assigned deed." Assignment is a legal concept whereby a person transfers rights or benefits to another, without transferring the burdens or obligations. In this case, the deed owner transfers the deed's use right to The Club, but retains the obligation to pay the annual fees. The right or benefit being assigned may be a gift or paid for with a contractual consideration such as money. For a DRI assigned deed the use rights are paid for with points in the Club.

In Diamond's case I'm not sure whether the assignment is made to The Club or to an appropriate Collection. Since The Club fees are different for an assigned deed and trust fund points, it might be assigned to the Club. On the other hand, an assigned deed gets the 13 month Home Collection Priority, which suggests it is assigned to the Collection.


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## DRIless (May 24, 2018)

nuwermj said:


> Diamond calls this an "assigned deed." Assignment is a legal concept whereby a person transfers rights or benefits to another, without transferring the burdens or obligations. In this case, the deed owner transfers the deed's use right to The Club, but retains the obligation to pay the annual fees. The right or benefit being assigned may be a gift or paid for with a contractual consideration such as money. For a DRI assigned deed the use rights are paid for with points in the Club.
> 
> In Diamond's case I'm not sure whether the assignment is made to The Club or to an appropriate Collection. Since The Club fees are different for an assigned deed and trust fund points, it might be assigned to the Club. On the other hand, an assigned deed gets the 13 month Home Collection Priority, which suggests it is assigned to the Collection.


I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TUG, thanks for your verbiage.  My deeds are not assigned to a collection, I get 13-month priority only at my deeded resorts and limited to the points associated with that resort.  I pay a Club Fee and maintenance fees are the fees for the deeded week, about half of what they would be if it were points in a collection because the deeded weeks are holiday weeks at max point value.  My last "update" they tried to scare me into converting to a Trust telling me that the resorts that I own (Powhatan, Greensprings, CPGV) might not stay in THE Club and then where would I be.  I looked him in the eye an said, "you're really trying to tell me that those three resorts have a chance in hell of not being in THE Club and I should DOUBLE (yes, 2X) my maintenance fee now on that chance in hell?"  After that they sent in some kid with a man-bun to try to sell me some sort of program that gave 52 weeks of I.I. excess inventory/bonus weeks per year for like $99/week and he told me I could sell them!!!


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## artringwald (May 29, 2018)

The booking window for assigned deeds may vary by resort. I can only book 12 months out using our assigned deed at the Point at Poipu. I believe there's a separate pool of units available only to owners with assigned deeds, so members in the Hawaii Collection can't grab all the units at 13 months out.


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## youppi (May 30, 2018)

artringwald said:


> The booking window for assigned deeds may vary by resort. I can only book 12 months out using our assigned deed at the Point at Poipu. I believe there's a separate pool of units available only to owners with assigned deeds, so members in the Hawaii Collection can't grab all the units at 13 months out.


Exactly but if you didn't book your week before 10 months, I think that your week is moved automatically to the THE Club and everybody in THE Club can book it. 
I suspect that is the case because during Jan to Mid-March all weeks at KBC are normally booked at 13 months in the Hawaii Collection and some years I see new availability appear at 10 months. I think that those weeks are deeded weeks assigned to THE Club that were not booked by deeded owners.


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## DRIless (May 30, 2018)

youppi said:


> Exactly but if you didn't book your week before 10 months, I think that your week is moved automatically to the THE Club and everybody in THE Club can book it.
> I suspect that is the case because during Jan to Mid-March all weeks at KBC are normally booked at 13 months in the Hawaii Collection and some years I see new availability appear at 10 months. I think that those weeks are deeded weeks assigned to THE Club that were not booked by deeded owners.


Exactly, there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes and you would hope that DRI would do the right thing.  They don't always.  As an example of that, at my home resort last summer where summer is THE SEASON, it was patently obvious that at exactly two months out (when discount points kicks in) DRI took all the inventory for rentals, all of it.  This summer I did not notice the complete switch of inventory.


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## nuwermj (May 31, 2018)

Here is the text from the Membership Directory. As is so often typical of Diamond Resorts, the text is about as clear as mud.

"6.2 Members with Home Resort Priority

"Some members also have Home Resort Priority. This means that when they purchased Collection points, they owned a fixed or floating week at a resort (their home resort). These members can confirm a reservation at their home resort 12 months prior to arrival.

"If these members do not confirm a reservation at their home resort 10 months prior to their check-in date, the assigned week is made available to other members of The Club. These members also have the option to book at any time from 13 months prior to their planned arrival date into their Home Collection, and then at 10 months at any other resort in The Club portfolio, (i.e. across all the Collection and at affiliates resorts.)"

[page 7]


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## chaparrusa (Oct 10, 2021)

artringwald said:


> Diamond had 4 types of ownerships. 1) The most basic one is ownership of a deeded week at a specific resort without membership in the Club. 2) The Club is like an exchange program within Diamond resorts. If you join the Club and add your deeded week to the Club, Diamond give you points for that week and you can use the points to book at any resort that is also in the Club. 3) You can buy points from Diamond. The point are part of a trust or collection of a limited number of resorts. The trust owns the deeded weeks at those resorts, and you can use your points to book any resort in the collection. When you buy points from Diamond, it includes membership in the Club, so you can also use the points to book Diamond resorts outside the collection. 4) If you sell your points, the Club membership is not transferable. The buyer will only be able to use the points to book resorts within the trust's collection. Resale points are also called dirty points because you can't use them outside the collection. You can negotiate with Diamond to put the points into the Club so you can use them anywhere, but that usually requires buying more points from Diamond at their highly inflated prices. Owner's of points find them difficult to sell because the Club membership is not transferable, and because the overhead of managing the trust's collection makes the maintenance fees unusually high.
> 
> The more points you have in the Club (not counting dirty points), the higher the tier level, silver, gold, platinum, etc. There are more perks as the tier levels get higher, but Diamond can change the level thresholds and number of perks whenever they want. Confused? They want you to be confused. It's easier to talk you into buying more points. They don't sell deeded weeks anymore, but you can buy them on the resale market. If you find a Diamond property you like and you plan to go there every year, deeded weeks are the best way to go. You can also exchange deeded weeks through RCI or Interval International and deeded weeks are easier to sell. Points do have the advantage of flexibility. It's easy to book any number of days, sometimes on short notice, and there's a large variety of resorts.


you couldn't explain it better


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