# Back from Las Vegas, Paris-Barry Manilow, and South Point



## John Cummings (Jul 13, 2010)

We just got back from Las Vegas last night. We went there on a comped offer from the Paris for accommodations and free tickets to the Barry Manilow show Saturday night. We stayed at the Paris Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights. We were going to stay 5 nights at the Paris but decided to try out the South Point so we stayed there Wednesday and Thursday nights.

First the South Point. We were very pleased with our stay there. The rooms are nice and quite large at 500 sq. ft. They upgraded us to an upper floor with a view of the pool. The casino has a great variety of slot machines and more penny machines that I have seen at 1 casino. The slots are loose and they have full pay video poker. We did very well coming out ahead and we play a lot. My wife won a Royal Flush on video poker for $1,000.00 and we won on several other machines. We played a lot of Star Trek including 5 straight hours on the same machines. For you Trekkie's, my wife and I both have over 1,000 medals each on playing Star Trek at Agua Caliente and South Point. We ate lunch at the buffet and it was pretty good and cheap. They had barbecue brisket, and ribs that were very good. We ate a few times at the café for breakfast and dinner. They have a 24 hour special for 10 oz Prime Rib or 16 oz Porterhouse steak for $12.95. We had the Porterhouse and it was pretty good and the dinner included salad/soup and everything. I can't say how busy they were as we didn't have any experience there. I talked to a casino host before checking out and they comped us for our accommodations and food so our stay was free and we made money. Such a deal. We will definitely go back to the South Point again. South Point also has a 16 screen movie theater, 64 lane bowling alley, and equestrian center and event center. They have a nice pool and jacuzzi that we used.

Now, on to Paris. The high point and our reason for going was the Barry Manilow show. My wife is a big fan and I promised her we would go whenever we got an offer. The show was totally awesome. The best show we have seen and we have seen a lot of shows. Barry was great and the show is very electric. We had excellent seats in the front balcony. We were going to get front orchestra but were advised to get balcony. Boy were they right. Everybody in the front orchestra was standing throughout the show so you wouldn't be able to see the show if you are short or not standing. We saw right over them so we had an awesome view. The show was full.

The Paris was very dead on the weekend. We stayed in a Premier Red Room with a great strip view. There were very few people in the casino playing and few people in the restaurants. The restaurant hostess told us that it was dead and they are laying people off. The Ile de St. Louis restaurant has a great dinner special of fillet mignon with crab for $16.99. We ate at the buffet and as usual did not like it very much but it was quick. They have cut back a lot of things. The Diamond lounge for Diamond members used to have sandwiches, finger food etc. for lunch and some hot items for dinner. Now all they have is chips, desserts and drinks. Everything is free in the Diamond lounge. It used to be packed but is now empty.

We lost a fair amount at the Paris as they, as all strip casinos, are pretty tight. Their video poker is better than most strip casinos but not great.

I don't walk very well so I rented a scooter from the concierge at the Paris for only $40.00 for 24 hours. Boy it was definitely the Cadillac of scooters. In any event, we then went on a tour. We first went next door to the Planet Hollywood to eat Kobe beef cheese burgers at the Cheeseburger Las Vegas in the Planet Hollywood's Miracle Mile of Shops. It is a full service restaurant small chain that started in Hawaii. We ate at the one in Waikiki Beachwalk in April. Cheeseburger Las Vegas is basically the same but is cheaper. It was very good. We then played for a few hours in the PH casino and didn't do very well. The casino was not busy at all.

Next, we went on a tour of the City Center and the Bellagio. We did a loop entering from the south side and exiting on the north. The Aria is beautiful but was virtually empty except for looky loos. Nobody playing and restaurants were empty. Same at the Bellagio. We stopped in front of the Bellagio water show at the street level to watch it a couple times. It is nice to watch it from our room but nothing like being right there to hear the music and feel the spray.

In summary, we had a great time mainly because of the  Barry Manilow Show and our stay at the South Point. There is no question that Las Vegas is hurting big time. I have never seen it that dead in the many many times we have been there. There were quite a few people just milling around but very few people in the restaurants or playing in the casinos.


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## ricoba (Jul 13, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> ...I have never seen it that dead in the many many times we have been there. ...



I was surprised to be able to book 3 nights in a 1 bedroom at the HGVC Flamingo for this weekend.  They seem to have plenty of availability through this week into next.  

While being able to book the HGVC Strip or Karen Street location last minute in the summer is quite easy, the Flamingo location is more popular and books up pretty quickly.

To me this is just another confirmation of what you said about Vegas hurting big time.

BTW, I agree that South Point is a great casino.  The owner Michael Gaughan just recently made the news because he has told the casino to loosen the slots there.  For small players like me, this is a big plus. Who wants to spend $20 in less than 2 minutes?  I like to find a machine that pays out regularly and I can sit at for an hour or so.  I think that Gaughan recognizes there are a lot of us low rollers and catering to us can pay off big over time....just like old Vegas!


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## Karen G (Jul 13, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> The high point and our reason for going was the Barry Manilow show.... The show was totally awesome. The best show we have seen and we have seen a lot of shows.


I totally agree--Barry is fantastic. Glad you had great seats.


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## Karen G (Jul 13, 2010)

ricoba said:


> BTW, I agree that South Point is a great casino.  The owner Michael Gaughan just recently made the news because he has told the casino to loosen the slots there.


There's a big ad in today's paper that Friday night from 4-10 p.m. drinks in all the South Point casino bars are just $2. I don't know if that's every Friday night through the summer or just this week, but that's a bargain.


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## Dori (Jul 13, 2010)

John, it sounds like you and your DW had a great time. We look forward to our visit in September. BTW, my hubby's favourite game in LV is also Star Trek. I'm not sure how many medals he has, but it is several hundred by now, I'm sure. I haven't seen it in Canada yet.

Dori


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## John Cummings (Jul 13, 2010)

ricoba said:


> I was surprised to be able to book 3 nights in a 1 bedroom at the HGVC Flamingo for this weekend.  They seem to have plenty of availability through this week into next.
> 
> While being able to book the HGVC Strip or Karen Street location last minute in the summer is quite easy, the Flamingo location is more popular and books up pretty quickly.
> 
> ...



I agree that being able to get the HGVC/Flamingo is another indicator of just how bad things are in Las Vegas. We stayed there several times on exchanges through SFX. That was a few years ago and when they still had developer units. Since they sold out, that has been a tough exchange up until recently.

Next time we go to the South Point, I am going to rent a scooter. It is a long walk back to the rooms from the casino.


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## John Cummings (Jul 13, 2010)

Karen G said:


> I totally agree--Barry is fantastic. Glad you had great seats.



Karen,

When you went did everybody in the orchestra section stand throughout the show? I imagine that just a few actually wanted to stand but the others had to in order to see. The front balcony is still close enough to see well and you can sit throughout the show. I am sure glad the ticket agent at the box office mentioned it to us when we picked up our tickets.


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## John Cummings (Jul 13, 2010)

Dori said:


> John, it sounds like you and your DW had a great time. We look forward to our visit in September. BTW, my hubby's favourite game in LV is also Star Trek. I'm not sure how many medals he has, but it is several hundred by now, I'm sure. I haven't seen it in Canada yet.
> 
> Dori



Once you get over a certain number of medals, they don't count for anything. It takes a lot of playing to reach that level. We play it all the time at Agua Caliente in Rancho Mirage ( Palm Springs metro area ), California. The Star Trek machines are all networked together in California and Nevada and probably other areas as well.


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## RedDogSD (Jul 13, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Once you get over a certain number of medals, they don't count for anything. It takes a lot of playing to reach that level. We play it all the time at Agua Caliente in Rancho Mirage ( Palm Springs metro area ), California. The Star Trek machines are all networked together in California and Nevada and probably other areas as well.



John,

Since I know you are a man of fine taste, I wanted to know if you have eaten at the Steak Restaurant at Aqua Caliente. I was shocked at the high quality. I thought it rivaled Ruth Chris, Mortons and Charley's.


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## Fern Modena (Jul 13, 2010)

The Friday night drinks are at least for this month.  Don't know if it will continue or they'll have another special after.  It is one of those that repeats from time to time.

Fern



Karen G said:


> There's a big ad in today's paper that Friday night from 4-10 p.m. drinks in all the South Point casino bars are just $2. I don't know if that's every Friday night through the summer or just this week, but that's a bargain.


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## Fern Modena (Jul 13, 2010)

John--Glad to hear that you liked South Point.  It is my favorite casino.  It is also my neighborhood casino.  M is closer now, but it doesn't interest me as much.  M caters more to strip-type clientele, where as South Point knows that its locals are as important as tourists.

If you like good food, and I know you do, I have a couple of good choices for you.  First, go to the Silverado Steakhouse for some of the best steak dinners you've ever had.  Even without a comp they are reasonable, and the food is great.  

If you want the true upscale experience, go to Michaels.  It used to be in the Barbary Coast when the Gaughans owned that casino.  Since the restaurant is named for the casino owner (Michael Gaughan), you know the food and service are top notch.

When you were listing amenities at South Point, you forgot to mention the bingo parlor, sports and race book, and (new) non-smoking poker room.  The total package of amenities is why I recommend Grandview to people who have teens and a car.  Teens can bowl and go to movies as things to keep them occupied.

Fern


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## Karen G (Jul 14, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Karen,
> 
> When you went did everybody in the orchestra section stand throughout the show? I imagine that just a few actually wanted to stand but the others had to in order to see. The front balcony is still close enough to see well and you can sit throughout the show. I am sure glad the ticket agent at the box office mentioned it to us when we picked up our tickets.


No, just the first couple of rows during the beginning, I think. At the end of the show I think everyone was standing, dancing, & singing along to Copacabana. Did you wave your red glow sticks?


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## RedDogSD (Jul 14, 2010)

Karen G said:


> No, just the first couple of rows during the beginning, I think. At the end of the show I think everyone was standing, dancing, & singing along to Copacabana. Did you wave your red glow sticks?



The whole place was not standing????  I can't remember the last time I went to a concert without standing the whole time.  Like John said, I don't think EVERYONE wants to stand, but once a few rows start standing, everyone has to stand.  

At least they were calm.  There are some bands that I enjoy thoroughly, but will not go to their concerts because the crowd gets crazy and starts slamming into each other.  I just don't understand that level of excitement.


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## John Cummings (Jul 14, 2010)

Karen G said:


> Did you wave your red glow sticks?



No we didn't because my wife sends them to our grandchildren.


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## John Cummings (Jul 14, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> John,
> 
> Since I know you are a man of fine taste, I wanted to know if you have eaten at the Steak Restaurant at Aqua Caliente. I was shocked at the high quality. I thought it rivaled Ruth Chris, Mortons and Charley's.



Yes, we have eaten at the Agua Caliente steakhouse several times. They comp us for it. It is very good. I always get the bone-in rib eye steak.

The best steak I have ever eaten was the bone-in rib eye at the Manhattan Supper Club in Garden Grove, CA. We ate there a few months ago.


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## MollyBuzz (Jul 14, 2010)

John, you seem to get great comps! I guess since I'm a few minutes-at-a-time slot player, it's more than I could hope for, but wow..color me impressed!


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## John Cummings (Jul 15, 2010)

MollyBuzz said:


> John, you seem to get great comps! I guess since I'm a few minutes-at-a-time slot player, it's more than I could hope for, but wow..color me impressed!



Yes, we do get great comps but they come at a price. We play a lot. One should NEVER play for comps as they will cost you far more than what they are worth. This is my hobby so I would play the same whether there were comps or not. The monetary value of the comps are not that important to me. I do enjoy the perks like not having to wait in line for restaurants, shows, etc. Best show tickets, special check-in and rooms or suites and other services not available to the general public.


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## Cindala (Jul 18, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> First the South Point. We were very pleased with our stay there. The rooms are nice and quite large at 500 sq. ft. They upgraded us to an upper floor with a view of the pool. The casino has a great variety of slot machines and more penny machines that I have seen at 1 casino. The slots are loose and they have full pay video poker. We did very well coming out ahead and we play a lot. My wife won a Royal Flush on video poker for $1,000.00 and we won on several other machines.



John,
I really enjoyed reading your trip report about Vegas! We were there about a week before you and found that the strip and casinos were a little busier (closer to July 4th may be why). We stayed at the Marriott Grande Chateau and loved it, but we visited Paris several times for dining and shopping and really liked the ambiance. We really enjoyed Mon Ami Gabi for dinner and the Eiffel Tower tour at night. Very romantic!

I am curious about this South Point that you mentioned. I particularly like the idea that the chances of winning are slightly increased. Smart strategy to lure gamblers away from the strip casinos. 
This was our first trip to Vegas and we are not big gamblers, but we figured that the strip casinos are harder to get payoffs in.
Where is South Point located in relation to say PH? Is it walking distance? One thing I learned quickly is that everything appears closer than it truly is in real life!:hysterical: Walked my toes off!
Thanks also for your suggestion of Cheeseburger Las Vegas. I passed it in the mall, but we never got a chance to eat there. Maybe next time. We have a pending request in for Vegas for next summer, so hopefully something will come through.


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## John Cummings (Jul 18, 2010)

Cindala said:


> John,
> I really enjoyed reading your trip report about Vegas! We were there about a week before you and found that the strip and casinos were a little busier (closer to July 4th may be why). We stayed at the Marriott Grande Chateau and loved it, but we visited Paris several times for dining and shopping and really liked the ambiance. We really enjoyed Mon Ami Gabi for dinner and the Eiffel Tower tour at night. Very romantic!
> 
> I am curious about this South Point that you mentioned. I particularly like the idea that the chances of winning are slightly increased. Smart strategy to lure gamblers away from the strip casinos.
> ...



Actually the chances of winning at South Point are much increased from the strip casinos though you still have to be at the right machine at the right time. There are many off-strip casinos with higher payback percentages than the strip. We have played at many but the South Point is by far the best in our opinion for a balance of good playing, good food, etc. These casinos get a lot of locals as well as out of town visitors.

The payback percentages for individual casinos in Nevada are not published as they are in some states. They do publish the payback percentages for different areas in Nevada. Las Vegas is divided into 4 sectors, the Strip, Downtown, North Las Vegas, and Boulder Strip. The payback percentages ranked lowest to highest are:

1. Strip - worst
2. Downtown - slightly better than strip
3. Boulder Strip - much better
4. North Las Vegas - the best but only slightly better than the Boulder Strip.

Here is a link. If you scroll down you will see the payback percentages.

http://www.vegastripping.com/playersclub/slots.php

There are many casinos such as South Point, etc. that don't fall into these general areas but are pretty good. What appears to be a small payback percentage increase can make a big difference, especially if you play very much. I wrote a computer program that shows how long your money will last ( number of bets ) based on starting bankroll, payback percentage, and size of bet. You would be surprised how much longer your money will last with just a small increase in the payback percentage.

Back to the South Point. It is located on Las Vegas Boulevard about 7 miles south of the Planet Hollywood so it is definitely not walking distance to the strip.


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## Cindala (Jul 19, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> Actually the chances of winning at South Point are much increased from the strip casinos though you still have to be at the right machine at the right time. There are many off-strip casinos with higher payback percentages than the strip. We have played at many but the South Point is by far the best in our opinion for a balance of good playing, good food, etc. These casinos get a lot of locals as well as out of town visitors.
> 
> The payback percentages for individual casinos in Nevada are not published as they are in some states. They do publish the payback percentages for different areas in Nevada. Las Vegas is divided into 4 sectors, the Strip, Downtown, North Las Vegas, and Boulder Strip. The payback percentages ranked lowest to highest are:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the information. Yes, we would definitely need a car to get to South Point, but it sounds like it is worth the trip.

Curiously, I checked out the payback percentages for the Atlantic City casinos since that is only 2 hours from us. I took a day trip last week with my daughter to the Borgata, which according to reports has the highest return for slots. Too bad that wasn't what I played.


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## Aaron Kristen (Jul 19, 2010)

We had the pleasure of staying at the South Point for 2 nights, prior to our one week stay at the Grandview next door.
I will also commend the South Point for its great casion floor, decent slot machines and overall quality. The midnight meal specials at the "diner" is also a hit. You can actually know what time it is, based on the line up that starts just prior to midnight!! 
The rooms were basic, new and overall very nicly appointed.
We really love the southpoint, and after a day of touring around, going back to the Grandview to rest, and then the short walk over to the South Point, is well worth it!!!!


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## beanie (Jul 19, 2010)

Cindala said:


> Curiously, I checked out the payback percentages for the Atlantic City casinos since that is only 2 hours from us. I took a day trip last week with my daughter to the Borgata, which according to reports has the highest return for slots. Too bad that wasn't what I played.



Well we played slots at the borgota on our bi-annual trip to ac the week before july 4th and I have never seen such tight machines. our flight didn't leave till 5pm the next day but at around midnight the night before both my wife and I called it quits because the machines weren't giving you anything. I actually had more success last sept on the strip then in AC the last couple of trips .hopefully vegas will be good this yr for our trip in aug.


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## John Cummings (Jul 20, 2010)

beanie said:


> Well we played slots at the borgota on our bi-annual trip to ac the week before july 4th and I have never seen such tight machines. our flight didn't leave till 5pm the next day but at around midnight the night before both my wife and I called it quits because the machines weren't giving you anything. I actually had more success last sept on the strip then in AC the last couple of trips .hopefully vegas will be good this yr for our trip in aug.



Payback percentages are determined over a long period of time, typically months. The payback percentage is set at the factory and certified by the state. The machines must be random. That means that they will be cyclical with hot and cold cycles. As such you may be at a machine that is in a hot cycle so you will think that it is loose or vise versa. It is all a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Therefore you can win on a tight machine or lose on a loose machine but over a long period of time the loose machine will have a better return.

If I am not winning, I go to my room and relax for awhile or do something else and then try later.

Last November, I did much better at Caesar's Palace, which is not loose, than at a locals casino.


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## RedDogSD (Jul 20, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> The machines must be random. That means that they will be cyclical with hot and cold cycles. As such you may be at a machine that is in a hot cycle so you will think that it is loose or vise versa. It is all a matter of being in the right place at the right time.




To understand this concept for those who don't gamble or understand statistics, just flip a coin about 50 times.  Over the long haul, you will get pretty close to 50% heads and 50% tails, but you will have spikes going both ways.  I remember doing this, and I got heads 9 times in a row.  The chances of that are: .5^9th which is .001953125.  It happens.

That is all gambling is....hoping to be there when things are out of flux.  If you play craps, and only bet on the Pass Line (all of the other bets are terrible), you will win 48% of the time (best odds in all of gambling).  Obviously, if you play for 12 hours, you will eventually lose.  If you play in short spurts, you might get very lucky.   Don't be fooled into adding Odds after the point has been established because the reason that you can win alot in craps in that during the "Coming out" roll, the most likely combination (7) wins for you.  Once the point is established, you no longer will win on the 7.


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## John Cummings (Jul 20, 2010)

It is surprising how many people believe the many myths about slot machines. A few years ago when I participated a lot on the Las Vegas forums we had many heated debates over picking a hot machine. It would surprise you how many people actually believe that the slot employees can tell them what machines are going to hit. These misguided people will actually pay these people to tell them. They would get very angry when told that it is not possible. I am also amazed by the number of people that believe the casinos adjust the odds at certain times. Many people mistakenly believe that a machine that hasn't paid out will be hot. The machines do not know what took place on previous bets. Every bet is unique. Don't think that you can't win jackpots back to back because both my wife and I have done it. That is one of the myths.

Below are some of the common slot machine myths:

http://www.slotshero.com/slots/myths/


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## Cindala (Jul 29, 2010)

RedDogSD said:


> That is all gambling is....hoping to be there when things are out of flux.  If you play craps, and only bet on the Pass Line (all of the other bets are terrible), you will win 48% of the time (best odds in all of gambling).



Ahh... now that's a game I would love to learn to play! The odds of winning aside, it always looks like so much fun with people yelling and getting so excited.


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## beanie (Aug 30, 2010)

John Cummings said:


> There is no question that Las Vegas is hurting big time. I have never seen it that dead in the many many times we have been there. There were quite a few people just milling around but very few people in the restaurants or playing in the casinos.



now we just returned and the past 2 weeks (esp the weekends ) were the most crowded I have ever seen it in my 9 trips there. all the casinos from planet hollywood down to the wynn were pretty crowded. I have never seen so many people gambling except maybe foxwoods when it first opened . the machines and tables were crowded in every casino except for the one afternoon we went for a walk thru bellagio and aria. The pools at flamingo and NYNY were like one big party zone (not my cup of tea ) with these kids paying $18 bucks a pop like they were buying the $1 bottles of water on the strip . I agree when we were in atlantic city late june/early july that even though it was crowded , hardly anybody was gambling . maybe the economy is getting better ! who knows ?
 and the lines for the restaurants were all long .


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