# New to forum



## Pissed@Silverleaf (Dec 23, 2014)

I was told to come to this forum and ask about a company that I am thinking of using to help me with my situation with Silverleaf. Has anyone got any information on a company out of Orlando, Nashville, and Ohio called Help For Timeshare Owners? They claim to be the only company that has an A rating for helping timeshare owners cancel their timeshare contract. Additionally, they state that they have a 93% success rate on deception sales tactics used. Why would they not be 100%? They also claim to have a 100% Money Back Guarantee. I do not want to get taken advantage of and I am afraid of any company that is in Orlando. The owner of the company is Bill Howell and I cannot find any information about him online and the website does not state much. He states that he has been doing this the longest. If that is true, why can I not find anything about him? Any advice would really be appreciated and Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,
Pissed@Silverleaf


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## DeniseM (Dec 23, 2014)

Ask them WHAT they are going to do with your timeshare?

Unfortunately, many of these rescue companies simply deed your timeshare to a phony entity and abandon it.

This can come back to haunt you because:

• It may be illegal
• The resort may refuse to recognize a fraudulent transfer - which means you paid for nothing
• They may simply take your funds and do nothing

This is known as a "Viking Ship Company" - MORE INFO:  http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_viking_ship_llc.html


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## theo (Dec 23, 2014)

*Run, run away...*



Pissed@Silverleaf said:


> <snip> Help For Timeshare Owners? They claim to be the only company that has an A rating for helping timeshare owners cancel their timeshare contract. Additionally, they state that they have a 93% success rate on deception sales tactics used. Why would they not be 100%? They also claim to have a 100% Money Back Guarantee. I do not want to get taken advantage of and I am afraid of any company that is in Orlando. The owner of the company is Bill Howell and I cannot find any information about him online and the website does not state much. He states that he has been doing this the longest. If that is true, why can I not find anything about him? Any advice would really be appreciated and Merry Christmas.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Pissed@Silverleaf



Please don't shoot the messenger, but the straightforward, simple, unvarnished truth is that no one walking upright and / or breathing air has the ability or any magical powers to just somehow "cancel a timeshare contract". *No one*. End of story. Period, amen. 

Names, claims, locations, firms and fees are all just irrelevant and unimportant details. In the end, there are no magic beans, no secret potions, no magical pixie dust. 
Out of respect for the current season however, I will decline to comment on Santa Claus. 

Unless you genuinely believe that you (or anyone acting on your behalf) can actually *prove* a fraud case (...and good luck with that, since fraud is a criminal offense and its' proof standard generally involves a criminal (not just civil) burden of proof), do yourself a favor and don't even waste your time or money. Don 't even go there. 
If you do, you will almost certainly just ultimately get fleeced --- after which you will still own your unwanted timeshare. 

Forewarned is forearmed.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 23, 2014)

Theo has been straight up --- RUN and RUN in a straight line away from these masters of bull crap.

+1 for Theo's answer!


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## dioxide45 (Dec 23, 2014)

Instead of paying someone a lot of money to possibly not rid you of your timeshare. Why not try giving it away in the Bargain Basement forum here on TUG? Offer to pay all closing costs (you can have these done as low as $125). You may also have to pay the next year's maintenance fees and give usage of that year to the buyer. But this will be far cheaper than paying possibly thousands to these relief companies.


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## DeniseM (Dec 23, 2014)

How can I give my timeshare away on TUG?  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132509


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## tschwa2 (Dec 23, 2014)

Pissed@Silverleaf said:


> I was told to come to this forum and ask about a company that I am thinking of using to help me with my situation with Silverleaf. Has anyone got any information on a company out of Orlando, Nashville, and Ohio called Help For Timeshare Owners? They claim to be the only company that has an A rating for helping timeshare owners cancel their timeshare contract. Additionally, they state that they have a 93% success rate on deception sales tactics used. Why would they not be 100%? They also claim to have a 100% Money Back Guarantee. I do not want to get taken advantage of and I am afraid of any company that is in Orlando. The owner of the company is Bill Howell and I cannot find any information about him online and the website does not state much. He states that he has been doing this the longest. If that is true, why can I not find anything about him? Any advice would really be appreciated and Merry Christmas.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Pissed@Silverleaf



Is your unit paid off? If it isn't the advice about giving it away isn't going to work.


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## pjrose (Dec 23, 2014)

What typically happens with these companies, is they'll tell you they have "buyers waiting" or they'll find buyers, they'll take your money, and you'll never hear from them again.

If you contact them and IF you can actually get through on a working phone or email, you'll find out that 1) the "buyers" changed their minds, 2) they're still working on it, and/or 3) all you agreed to in the fine print was that they'd advertise it, not that they'd actually sell it.

Then you'll get your maintenance fee bill from the TS.

So now you're out the money you sent the "timeshare relief" company AND you'll still owe the MFs.  And if you just skip out on the MFs, you'll hurt your credit.  

So.....rent it, trade it, use it, give it away, but don't sign up for one of these company's fake services.


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## TUGBrian (Dec 24, 2014)

welcome to TUG, glad you found us before you got ripped off.


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## ronparise (Dec 24, 2014)

Actually they claim 93.5%, not 93%. which is pretty good I would think.  But thats of the cases they take on. I would bet that they turn down more folks than they help because they cant prove anything,,,lie you that are just pissed off

Contrary to most of the knee jerk responses you have gotten here, these folks dont say they will buy your timeshare, rather they claim to be a law firm that will negotiate your case with the company (in your case Silverleaf) and get the company to take your timeshare back and forgive any loan

heres what they say


We Can Help You With The Cancellation Of Your Timeshare Contract.
if you have purchased a Timeshare within the past 10 years and feel you have been lied to, coerced, or deceived into purchasing a Timeshare, vacation club/ownership. 

The key word here is only 2 letters long...IF,
Basically if you can prove fraud, they will take your case and probably win.  The issue isnt;  was there fraud,,,there almost always is, the issue is; can you prove fraud?  Probably not. My guess is that the only thing you have is your contract, no notes in the salesman's hand, no tapes of the presentation. and no impartial witness to lies or deceit

On the website the lawyer, says he is experienced in short sales.  (So am I from a salesmans perspective).     
In my experience if you can show a lender that you cant repay your loan and if the property is worth less than the loan,(and it always is with timeshares) the lender will usually, sooner or later, allow a sale for less than the loan amount or allow a deed in lieu of foreclosure.....So a short sale or deed in lieu of foreclosure, or something like it is I think a possibility even if there was no fraud, but you will have to prove you cant pay the loan,


I know of 3 cases where folks have argued fraud and/or a changed financial position, and have been able to get out of their timeshare (and the loan)  all have been Wyndham,(not Silverleaf) and none of the three needed a lawyer


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## marty77 (Dec 28, 2014)

The proof is in your own post:
"I cannot find any information about him online and the website does not state much. He states that he has been doing this the longest. If that is true, why can I not find anything about him?"

That says bunches, and should stop the whole process.

If I had a success rate like that and my business profited only by finding clients in a very specific bind, I'd make sure I was all over Google, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc.  And I definitely would have had my reputation well known on TUG by now.


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## Pissed@Silverleaf (Dec 28, 2014)

*Sorry for delay*

Thank you to everyone for the input. Here is what I can say so far. They go by Help4TSO and they claim to be able to help me even with a he said she said situation. We did sign the contract with Silverleaf, but the sales rep made a lot of verbal promises and we simply got stupid for a couple of hours. When I spoke to Help4TSO I was told that for $1900 they would be able to create some documents that will tell my story to Silverleaf properly. They also said that their legal team was the most experienced group of attorneys and paralegals around that one of their attorneys has a Doctorate in law. They said that he has helped thousands out of their timeshares and they will give me my money back if they are not successful...I am really hoping that they are legit, but it is too late because we have already paid them. I will keep you all posted. Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.


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## puppymommo (Dec 28, 2014)

I do hope we hear back from OP one way or another. In such cases we often don't. If it turns out to be a scam, some people are too embarrassed to admit it. And if it actually works, you can bet there will be a non-disclosure clause to the agreement with the developer.


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## Rent_Share (Dec 28, 2014)

Pissed@Silverleaf said:


> They also said that their legal team was the most experienced group of attorneys and paralegals around that one of their attorneys has a Doctorate in law.


 
Almost all US Attorney's hold a Juris Doctorate Degree - "Dr. of Law", most are not so pretentious as to refer to themselves as Dr., since Attorney at Law already implies status.​ ​ ​ BTW it is possible to be a Doctor of Law through a degree, but not licensed to practice law.​ ​ ​ The entity is showing offices in Tennessee, Ohio and a Corporate Office in Orlando, I am not finding an "Attorney" registered with the bar association of any if those sites - The "Doctor's" Limked In page indicates Las Vegas, but no hits on the Nevada State Bar ?​ ​ ​ :rofl:From their Website:rofl:​ 

> Our lead attorney has practiced real estate law for nearly 30 years, and he is literally a rocket scientist as well. Dr. Deighan works on space programs all over the globe!


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## theo (Dec 28, 2014)

*Utter nonsense...*



Pissed@Silverleaf said:


> <snip> They go by Help4TSO and they claim to be able to help me even with a he said she said situation. We did sign the contract with Silverleaf, but the sales rep made a lot of verbal promises and we simply got stupid for a couple of hours. When I spoke to Help4TSO I was told that for $1900 they would be able to create some documents that will tell my story to Silverleaf properly. They also said that their legal team was the most experienced group of attorneys and paralegals around that one of their attorneys has a Doctorate in law. They said that he has helped thousands out of their timeshares and they will give me my money back if they are not successful...I am really hoping that they are legit, but *it is too late because we have already paid them.*



Sadly, "too late" is precisely correct and entirely accurate. I have a one word response in regard to *all* of the above "Help4TSO" grandiose claims --- *Bull$&!t*.

I appreciate that "hope springs eternal", but you can rest assured that any such hopes are completely unfounded in this particular instance. 
I'm sorry that you came here *after* apparently paying out that (...now almost certainly gone forever) $1,900 instead of *before* doing so.
When all is said and done you will be "out" that $1,900 (...there will be no "refund") --- and you will *still* own your timeshare. Sorry.


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## LannyPC (Dec 29, 2014)

theo said:


> I'm sorry that you came here *after* apparently paying out that (...now almost certainly gone forever) $1,900 instead of *before* doing so.



The sad part is that the OP said in his OP (and I quote), "I was told to come to this forum and ask about a company that I am thinking of using to help me with my situation..."  

From that I gather that, at the time he posted, he hadn't yet paid.  Now, five days later, he comes and says that he did pay.

Sad really because, within an hour of his post, four TUGgers chimed in with advice to avoid such an operation.  It really makes me wonder what his real intention was of coming on these boards explaining his situation.


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## theo (Dec 29, 2014)

*Several possibilities...*



LannyPC said:


> The sad part is that the OP said in his OP (and I quote), "I was told to come to this forum and ask about a company that I am thinking of using to help me with my situation..."
> 
> From that I gather that, at the time he posted, he hadn't yet paid.  Now, five days later, he comes and says that he did pay.
> 
> Sad really because, within an hour of his post, four TUGgers chimed in with advice to avoid such an operation.  It really makes me wonder what his real intention was of coming on these boards explaining his situation.



Good points, all. 

It *could* be that the initial OP input was just a shill post, attempting to create some "exposure" for the dubious entity apparently known (...somewhere) as *Help4TSO*.

If the initial OP post was indeed legitimate and the OP simply chose to ignore sound advice offered to protect him / her from getting fleeced, then it will ultimately be an unnecessary and completely avoidable $1,900.00 lesson. Quite sad, if so --- although the mythical "rocket scientist / J.D." will surely appreciate the "donation".


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## pedro47 (Dec 30, 2014)

theo said:


> Good points, all.
> 
> It *could* be that the initial OP input was just a shill post, attempting to create some "exposure" for the dubious entity apparently known (...somewhere) as *Help4TSO*.
> 
> If the initial OP post was indeed legitimate and the OP simply chose to ignore sound advice offered to protect him / her from getting fleeced, then it will ultimately be an unnecessary and completely avoidable $1,900.00 lesson. Quite sad, if so --- although the mythical "rocket scientist / J.D." will surely appreciate the "donation".



I feel that you hit it squarely on the head with your post.


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## ronparise (Dec 30, 2014)

The op may have been a shill, or a real victim of timeshare fraud we dont know.  And while the advice we have given is good advice, (dont throw your money away on a lawyer) we really haven't helped the op. Telling him what not to do still leaves him owning a timeshare he doesnt want and probably cant afford

The problem here isnt crooked lawyers or upfront fees, The problem is the business model and sales practices of the timeshare developers. I dont know the answer either, but telling a victim what not to do after the fact, isnt a good  answer. And just waiting and hoping we can say "I told you so" is no help at all

I can completely understand why someone might hire a lawyer to argue their case. People hire lawyers every day to argue for them, why shouldnt someone that feels victimized by a timeshare company do the same thing....I wish the op well


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## LannyPC (Dec 30, 2014)

ronparise said:


> ...we really haven't helped the op...



See post number 6.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 30, 2014)

I doubt it is paid off or that he owes less than the $1900 he paid.


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## DeniseM (Dec 30, 2014)

ronparise said:


> we really haven't helped the op.
> 
> People hire lawyers every day to argue for them, why shouldnt someone that feels victimized by a timeshare company do the same thing....I wish the op well



In post #6, I posted a link to the very specific post about how to give your timeshare away on TUG.  This was BEFORE the OP signed up with the scammers.

Most of the upfront fee companies I have looked into didn't even have an attorney on staff - it's just part of their baloney sales pitch.  They have form letters that you fill out with your complaint and send to the resort mgmt.

This is not the same as going to a law firm and hiring a REAL attorney.

Sadly, if someone wants a quick fix, they are probably going to get scammed.


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## ronparise (Dec 30, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> In post #6, I posted a link to the very specific post about how to give your timeshare away on TUG.  This was BEFORE the OP signed up with the scammers.
> 
> Most of the upfront fee companies I have looked into didn't even have an attorney on staff - it's just part of their baloney sales pitch.  They have form letters that you fill out with your complaint and send to the resort mgmt.
> 
> ...



Denise, How much success do you think I will have trying to give away my Worldmark timeshares (I owe Wyndham in excess of $100000)

I stand by my comment, we havent been any help at all


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## DeniseM (Dec 30, 2014)

ronparise said:


> I owe Wyndham in excess of $100000



4 words:  you should know better


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## Beefnot (Dec 30, 2014)

Ron is likely correct, assuming that the OP owes money on the timeshare. Giving it away is not an option in that scenario. So then, what next?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 30, 2014)

Beefnot said:


> Ron is likely correct, assuming that the OP owes money on the timeshare. Giving it away is not an option in that scenario. So then, what next?



If there is a lien, it makes no sense to deed it over to a viking ship. Defaulting on the loan payments will kill one's credit. Avoiding the foreclosure is pointless.


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## ronparise (Dec 30, 2014)

dioxide45 said:


> If there is a lien, it makes no sense to deed it over to a viking ship. Defaulting on the loan payments will kill one's credit. Avoiding the foreclosure is pointless.



Whats next is you hire an attorney to present your case to Wyndham, or you do it yourself. and your case is simple  "Im not paying another red cent, and you guys have only two choices..Take it back and forgive the loan, or foreclose"

This is no different than the dozens of shortsales I was involved in as a real estate agent  (Lee County Florida was the short sale and foreclosure capitol of the world).  The banks always resisted but once they  understood my client was serious, they allowed a short sale to go through

Ive seen it with Wyndham too; once when the owner claimed the salesman lied, and once when the owner showed them how her financial situation had changed. quick and easy deed back and a satisfaction of the loan was recorded

Wyndham does not employ stupid people. If they arent getting paid, they will get it back to sell again

There is no reason to believe that the outfit that took the ops money wont do their best to get the op out of this deal


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## theo (Jan 15, 2015)

*Still no magic beans, still no pixie dust...*



ronparise said:


> <snip> There is no reason to believe that the outfit that took the ops money wont do their best to get the op out of this deal



Au contraire --- there is substantial reason:

The "outfit" to which you refer was just today overtly outed and plainly identified as a spammer / scammer / shill right here on TUG while attempting some very lame and unconvincing shill postings, name dropping and "inquiry" (...inquiry about himself, as it turns out). This intrepid shill is plainly neither valid nor very bright.

Now banned, there is "no reason to believe" that this outfit will "do their best" for (I should say *to*) others --- at least not while using TUG as their venue / platform.

P.S. There is no Santa Claus --- and no Easter Bunny either.


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## DeniseM (Jan 15, 2015)

This is the thread that theo referenced - the owner of the website discussed in this thread just spammed TUG:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222035

A reputable business owner does not post spam...


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## ronparise (Jan 15, 2015)

Ok I stand corrected, This lawyer is no good..but we didnt know that until todays post

My advice still stands and that is to work this out with Wyndham, with or with out an attorney. There will be consequences, but  no worse consequences than if the op just walks away


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## Beefnot (Jan 15, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> This is the thread that theo referenced - the owner of the website discussed in this thread just spammed TUG: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222035
> 
> A reputable business owner does not post spam...



He may not be "reputable", but that does not mean he is crooked. I still do not presume that this outfit would not do what they promote. However it was definitely dumb that they are trying to drum up business through sneaky means.


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## DeniseM (Jan 15, 2015)

Beefnot - His offer has all the earmarks of a Viking Ship Scheme.  In my book, that is crooked.  YMMV


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## Beefnot (Jan 15, 2015)

Ok I see. The Viking Ship debate. Well, as long as the company works in my best interests, I might choose to be a lot less philosophical about the definition of "crooked". But I hear you.


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## ronparise (Jan 15, 2015)

DeniseM said:


> Beefnot - His offer has all the earmarks of a Viking Ship Scheme.  In my book, that is crooked.  YMMV



I read through the guys website..All I saw is that he would review you case. If he thought he could claim fraud he would take your case to the company in question

I may have missed it but I didnt see any offer to transfer your ownership to another party


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## DeniseM (Jan 15, 2015)

Did you see his OWN claims about what he would do in his spam thread?  Not one word about investigating and proving fraud.



> They said that I would need to do a deed transfer to get it out of my name and that it would take upto 6 months max to complete.
> 
> They said they aren't selling it, they are doing a deed transfer where they transfer it back the resort. They said it was different from the companies promising to sell it.


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