# surviving a timeshare presentation [merged]



## macstepic

Hi everyone,

yes, this is my first post.

I have always considered timeshares a complete waste of money...that is until I found out about buying on the resale market. I am amazed at the difference in resale vs. developer prices.

We do enjoy staying in timeshare resorts. I am married with 2 elementary age school children. Staying in a "suite" with a kitchen and a washer and dryer is pure heaven compared to cramped hotel rooms.  That being said, I see myself as a renter for a few more years. We only travel at most 1 week per year and I do not do "debt". A timeshare would have to be purchased for cash that I do wish to allocate for such a purchase...yet. 

Long story short, I have gotten myself sucked into a timeshare presentation at a Hilton resort in Las Vegas. From what I have read they are high pressure sales pitches.

How do we spend the least amount of time in such a presentation?

My guess is that they have a script that they must go through. Is the best plan to ask no questions and give nothing but noncommital answers to any leading questions?

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.


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## e.bram

just say NO!!!!


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## AwayWeGo

*Surviving The High-Pressure Timeshare Sales Pitch.*




macstepic said:


> Any suggestions would be most appreciated.


All that's behind every effort by all timeshare sellers, & behind every word that the timeshare sellers say, is a simple sequence of ideas to the effect of *. . .* 

_1.  You Have The Money. 

2.  We Want The Money. 

3.  You Give The Money To Us._ 

Nothing you can tell them will lead them to say, "OK, then.  Never mind.  You're good to go.  Thanks very much anyway & here's your valuable gift." 

Every response you give to any question or suggestion they offer is designed to get you to agree to give the money to them. 

Therefore, there is no point in being interesting & interested & engaging across those little tables in the sales room.  There is no use in showing any interest whatever.  It does no good to say, "Yes, but *. . .* "   All the timeshare sellers will hear is _Yes._ 

Best you can do is sit there politely & attentively & tolerantly while projecting an attitude of dignified boredom.  Not impatience, just boredom & lack of interest, so that your body language matches your spoken language when you say _No Thanks._ 

The timeshare sellers have a reply all ready for any objection you can present, so it's better not to get into any reasons for saying _No Thanks,_ because the timeshare sellers will only refute any & all reasons for not buying.  So it comes down to _No Thanks_ & _We Are Really Not Interested After All. Thanks Anyway. _

Some timeshare sellers are psychological manipulators who will try to guilt-trip you into buying.  Some may even ask in a pointed way why you're there  wasting their valuable time if you're not interested & you are not going to buy.  The factual answer to that is you are there because the timeshare company's marketing department invited you to come listen to a no-obligation sales presentation.  You agreed to come because they guaranteed that there is _No Obligation._  And because it is _No Obligation,_ you are saying _No Thanks_ to their offer.  It's that simple.  (Repeat as necessary.) 

By the time they turn you loose, you will have earned whatever freebies they give you as your incentive for attending the presentation. 

Good luck. 

And let us know how it went after it's over. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## FlyerBobcat

Nice write-up, Alan....   I just might need to bookmark that one....


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## Liz Wolf-Spada

We recently bought a 2 bedroom in Hawaii, Paniolo Green on the Big Island, every year use. We paid $50 plus closing costs on ebay and $650 yearly fees.
Tell them you own a timeshare you bought for less than $100 dollars on ebay. Make something up. Tell them you are interested in learning about their system but only buy resale. (And stick to that story)
Liz


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## kjsgrammy

Wear a T-shirt that reads "Member of TUG" "Only buy resale".  That should speed up the presentation.


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## zazz

macstepic said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> yes, this is my first post.
> 
> I have always considered timeshares a complete waste of money...that is until I found out about buying on the resale market. I am amazed at the difference in resale vs. developer prices.
> 
> We do enjoy staying in timeshare resorts. I am married with 2 elementary age school children. Staying in a "suite" with a kitchen and a washer and dryer is pure heaven compared to cramped hotel rooms.  That being said, I see myself as a renter for a few more years. We only travel at most 1 week per year and I do not do "debt". A timeshare would have to be purchased for cash that I do wish to allocate for such a purchase...yet.
> 
> Long story short, I have gotten myself sucked into a timeshare presentation at a Hilton resort in Las Vegas. From what I have read they are high pressure sales pitches.
> 
> How do we spend the least amount of time in such a presentation?
> 
> My guess is that they have a script that they must go through. Is the best plan to ask no questions and give nothing but noncommital answers to any leading questions?
> 
> Any suggestions would be most appreciated.




Just say no.  

Everything denial you give them has a carefully designed counter-argument.  "I am not buying a timeshare today" is your simple answer.  Repeat it many times in the mirror.  Because after you say no to the first offer, you will get the offer for a cheaper one, a "re-furbished model" that was returned by a pervious owner.  Then you get an every other year offer which is even cheaper and a discovery package.

They will try and guilt trip you or play for sympathy.  My last sales weasel at Planet Hollywood in Vegas had to tell me about her history as an immigrant to this country and her dying sister and wonderful 85-year old mother.  This crap went on and on and on.

You can always bring a shrieking child which I am told helps get you out of these things faster.

You can tell them that some guy in the lobby was passing out fliers for resale timeshares and how you could save money and you want to explore that first so there is no way you will buy.

Can you vomit on demand?  That would get you out of there fast.


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## theduffster

Because it's a Hilton timeshare, educate yourself on the Hilton system.


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## BocaBum99

Tell them that you are from the Real Estate Commission or Attorney's General Office of the state in which you are touring.  You received a lot of sales complaints from this particular resort, so you wanted to see for yourself if there was an issue.  That should make it really easy.


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## jjking42

1 Tell them you are a religious person and you don't make financial decisions without praying about it first. ( I have never had a sales rep offer to pray with me)

2. I am not looking to buy, I am looking to sell. I already have two many timeshares. Would you be interested in buying mine. I paid $ 20,000.00 for it and would sell to you for $ 15,000.00

2. If you have kids tell the kids to call your cell phone at a set time. When the call comes in tell the sales rep you told the kids you would be back @certain time. Its past that time and your son is felling sick and you have to go.


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## falmouth3

jjking42 said:


> 2. I am not looking to buy, I am looking to sell. I already have two many timeshares. Would you be interested in buying mine. I paid $ 20,000.00 for it and would sell to you for $ 15,000.00



My in-laws went to a sales presentation expecting to be able to sell their TS back.  Instead, they bought a bigger unit (or more points - I was never sure what they did).  You have to say NO.  Or don't go.


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## DanCali

You don't have to be polite or disrespectful or seem bored. Use it as a learning opportunity about the system and feel free to be engaged and ask questions so you can learn..

As to how to avoid the pressure simply say that you realize the sales presentation is designed to create an impulse buy and you are against impulse buys. Stick with that line and there is not much they can do...Tell them if it feels right in three days you'll come back. They will give you lots of incentives that are "good only today" and supposedly will not be offered if you come back but tell them you are ok with that and you never buy on impulse. This worked for me.

(and by the way, that exact same deal will be on the table in three days too despite what they tell you).


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## caribbean

Print out some comparable Hilton low priced resale units, like from eBay, and take it along for comparisom.


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## PamMo

macstepic said:


> ...
> Long story short, I have gotten myself sucked into a timeshare presentation at a Hilton resort in Las Vegas. From what I have read they are high pressure sales pitches.
> 
> How do we spend the least amount of time in such a presentation?
> 
> My guess is that they have a script that they must go through. Is the best plan to ask no questions and give nothing but noncommital answers to any leading questions?
> 
> Any suggestions would be most appreciated.




My solution is simpler - DON'T GO! It sounds like you have a good idea on what you want out of a timeshare - why choose to waste your time and energy on a sales presentation you feel "sucked into"?     Just cancel the appointment. You'll get better information here on TUG anyway.


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## Stricky

+1 on not going.


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## 1950bing

I went to one a long time ago and after they figured out I was not going to buy they said it was time for me to leave ( with no gift ). I mentioned I was going to call the police then they gave me the gift and showed me the door.


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## arc918

PamMo said:


> My solution is simpler - DON'T GO! It sounds like you have a good idea on what you want out of a timeshare - why choose to waste your time and energy on a sales presentation you feel "sucked into"?     Just cancel the appointment. You'll get better information here on TUG anyway.



Best idea yet!  They can't pressure you into anything if you're not there.


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## AwayWeGo

*No Show = No Freebies.*




arc918 said:


> They can't pressure you into anything if you're not there.


Got to show up & listen up in order to pick up your Valuable Gift. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Talent312

The last time I went to one of these, I adopted this attitude: They can say or do anything they want... "flay the skin off my bones" or whatever... I would chill out and just say "no," until the cows come home. 

When they started thowing deal-after-deal on the table (bidding against themselves) and saying how foolish we must be not to want this one ("I can't believe they're letting me offer this!"), I was like, "Sorry, dude, but I'm just not feeling it."  Meanwhile I was thinking, "Does your momma know what you do for a living?"

Whatever your approach, it helps to line up a watering hole for decompressing afterwards.


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## Aussiedog

*No go = time to enjoy your vacation*

While at Wyndham Oceanside Pier resort this weekend I observed more than one couple in the windowless sales weasel grotto the entire morning!!!!


The sun was shining
It was 70 degrees
The surf was up
The beach was not crowded

Just seems like a waste of relaxing vacation time to me.  I always say no.

Ann


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## djs

Bring a timer with you and once the salesperson starts to speak set it for 60 or 90 minutes (depending on how long the presentation is supposed to go).  Once it goes off stand up, thank the sales person for their time and walk away.


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## AwayWeGo

*Make Sure You Walk In The Right Direction.*




djs said:


> Bring a timer with you and once the salesperson starts to speak set it for 60 or 90 minutes (depending on how long the presentation is supposed to go).  Once it goes off stand up, thank the sales person for their time and walk away.


Be sure to get the timeshare seller to sign off on your freebies chit, then walk away in the direction of the freebies window. 

Otherwise the whole experience will be a major serious waste of time. 

(Might be a waste of time anyway.  If you don't get the freebies it will be a horrendous waste of time.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## YeongWoo

*Bookmark the whole thing*

Most of these responses were pure gold.  I vote for the no-go.  Life's too short... 

If you do go my second vote is the t-shirt for TUG.  Any oh yeah, I'd take the plunge and buy resale because it sounds like you've got a handle on things.  You can't beat some of the prices that are out there.


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## dwsupt

zazz said:


> You can always bring a shrieking child which I am told helps get you out of these things faster.


 Doesn't work well. My Daughter and SIL sat through one with our 3 grandsons 7,2, and 6mos at the time. They kept them for the entire 3 hours!
She kept saying no my dad will give us one of his if we want one, they wouldn't listen. Next time she'll listen when dad says to say no!  :whoopie:


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## bzzybee13

kjsgrammy said:


> Wear a T-shirt that reads "Member of TUG" "Only buy resale".  That should speed up the presentation.



:rofl: 



jjking42 said:


> I am not looking to buy, I am looking to sell. I already have two many timeshares. Would you be interested in buying mine. I paid $ 20,000.00 for it and would sell to you for $ 15,000.00



:hysterical: 

Thanks everyone I needed a lift!


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## UWSurfer

A few years back we went to the LV Strip HGVC presentation and found them to be masters at the sell and felt pressured, even though they were more master manipulators than "high pressure".  We later have experience high pressure at other presentations, so we now know the difference.  

In the strip presentation, we were up to our necks in home remodling projects with ALL our cash going toward that.   I knew there was no additional money to spend on a timeshare and went in & out with the conviction that we couldn't do a deal if we wanted to.

Later after we purchased resale (not through the developer), and again 4 more times our tactics shifted to two lines of thoughts...1) We have ENOUGH timeshare weeks and we don't need any more, followed closely by 2) We paid $x for our week here (often 1 - 25% of what is being pitched), why would we pay what you are asking?   This leaves the them with trinkets to pitch (elite status, consolidating our weeks into one MF, bonus points, we're better than the other guys...) which they themselves often admit aren't enough to overcome paying pennies on the dollar.

Still, I'm to the point where I don't even want to attend a presentation any longer and haven't in about a year.   My wife still wants to go and if the gift offering actually will save us $$ on activities or a meal she'll often convince me to attend, knowing we can shoot down the offers pretty quickly.


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## Talent312

UWSurfer said:


> ... I'm to the point where I don't even want to attend a presentation any longer and haven't in about a year. My wife still wants to go and if the gift offering actually will save us $$ on activities or a meal she'll often convince me to attend, knowing we can shoot down the offers pretty quickly.



I'd pay my wife whatever $$-savings were involved, not to go.
Alternatively, I'd suggest that she hire some guy to stand in for me (maybe she could find one at the bar), while I snoozed by the pool.


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## macstepic

Thanks everyone!

Since I am new at this, I am not entirely sure how to copy quotes into a post but your comments and suggestions are educational and highly entertaining. 

I was thinking that some temporary disfigurement to my face (such as really ugly teeth) would make the salesman uncomfortable enough to move it along...but a TUG T shirt may do the trick better.

The presentation is supposed to last 90 minutes. I do plan on standing up, thanking them, and demanding my "gifts" after that time has passed. I fully expect it will take another 20 minutes or more to get them to pony up. I will make lunch reservations somewhere to force myself to stay on schedule. 

The freebies and the fact that I am under 2 feet of snow somehow weakened my better sensibilities. I had rationalized my ill fated choice to sign up for this by telling myself  "it would be a good way to learn a little more about the Hilton system." Now that I have joined TUG I can see that I will learn more here. 

I will definitely update everyone on how my experience pans out. We are traveling in May, expect my post sometime mid to late May.

thank you again, ...I have not laughed this hard at myself in a while


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## PamMo

Talent312 said:


> I'd pay my wife whatever $$-savings were involved, not to go.
> Alternatively, I'd suggest that she hire some guy to stand in for me (maybe she could find one at the bar), while I snoozed by the pool.



Too funny! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That is _exactly _what my husband told me when I wanted to see a new resort. (The only way to get into the resort was taking a sales presentation or being a guest.)

I wonder if there's such a thing as an Open House in the timeshare business? No "free" gifts - no sales pressure. Just a tour and information.


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## Patri

PamMo said:


> I wonder if there's such a thing as an Open House in the timeshare business? No "free" gifts - no sales pressure. Just a tour and information.



That maybe just could work! People walk through. Those who want more info would get the sell spin, that day or at a later appointment, and easily could buy.


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## 1950bing

Patri said:


> That maybe just could work! People walk through. Those who want more info would get the sell spin, that day or at a later appointment, and easily could buy.



That is how it should have started to begin with. If so, it would not have the sleeze bag rep. it does today!!!


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## DVB42

Add me to the list of those who recommend NOT TO GO. The freebe is not worth the aggravation. Since you know you will not buy from them - why waste your time? It is a waste of the salesmans time as well. When I travel I like to enjoy myself and not be put in a position to endure two hours of pain! I would rather go to the dentist than a timeshare sales presentation!


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## AwayWeGo

*Won't Happen Till They Adopt A Much Needed New Biz Model.*




Patri said:


> That maybe just could work! People walk through. Those who want more info would get the sell spin, that day or at a later appointment, and easily could buy.


Too simple -- & it will never happen as long as the people in the timeshare biz can't see past their traditional arm-twisting & truth-stretching & guilt-tripping & psychologically manipulative hard-sell razzle-dazzle biz model that depends on luring vacationers into the sales rooms by promising them various kinds of desirable freebies. 

What's needed -- what's way overdue -- is a new biz model based on Wal-Mart for newly deeded timeshares & based on CarMax for resales. 

Don't hold your breath. 

Till then, there's no reason not to absorb all the timeshare tour freebies you & your significant other can stand. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## jjking42

DVB42 said:


> Add me to the list of those who recommend NOT TO GO. The freebe is not worth the aggravation. Since you know you will not buy from them - why waste your time? It is a waste of the salesmans time as well. When I travel I like to enjoy myself and not be put in a position to endure two hours of pain! I would rather go to the dentist than a timeshare sales presentation!



It all depends on the freebies and the timeshare. I have not  done one  in a long time. But i would consider one if it was the right promotion


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## a1000monkeys

I just went on a presentation last week at the Hilton Grand Waikikian.  It was supposed to last 90 minutes but I got us out in less than 30 thanks to TUG.

It also probably didn't hurt that I had 3 small kids in tow.

I had bought a preview package 2 years ago when I still had an interest in learning about HGVC.  Since that time I had a third kid, learned about rentals and resales and found TUG.

I told this to the sales guy up front and told him that I tried to cancel the package but i was told it was non-refundable so I here we were.

Since we had already stayed in one of the units (rented from an owner for nearly the cost of maintenance fees) we didn't need the full tour.

We pretty much got right into it and since I already knew quite a bit about HGVC the issue of price came up within about 20 mintues.  I asked him why I should pay more than twice as much for what I could buy resale.

He said resale is a waste of money and that open season benefits would go away for resale buyers.  I said why would I want to buy into a program that would strip benefits and further decimate resale prices.  At that point he switched tactics and said I would just be throwing away money by continuing to rent.  I said that if I can find rentals for less than maintenance fees then I'm saving money by not buying.  He then said then I'm throwing away money because I'm not building equity and then stated an example of his friend who bought in Lagoon tower for $39K and is selling it to the Japanese for $160K.  I told him I didn't know any Japanese people that stupid.

He gave up after that and threw down the last ditch offer to get me to go on another preview package.  $1599 to rent 8400 points.  I said we're done with the packages, collected my $100 Hilton dollars and left.

That will undoubtedly be our last presentation.


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## FlyerBobcat

a1000monkeys said:


> He said resale is a waste of money and that open season benefits would go away for resale buyers.  I said why would I want to buy into a program that would strip benefits and further decimate resale prices.  At that point he switched tactics and said I would just be throwing away money by continuing to rent.  I said that if I can find rentals for less than maintenance fees then I'm saving money by not buying.  He then said then I'm throwing away money because I'm not building equity and then stated an example of his friend who bought in Lagoon tower for $39K and is selling it to the Japanese for $160K.  I told him I didn't know any Japanese people that stupid.
> 
> He gave up after that and threw down the last ditch offer to get me to go on another preview package.  $1599 to rent 8400 points.  I said we're done with the packages, collected my $100 Hilton dollars and left.



Classic....   :hysterical: :hysterical:


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## wyobean

*TS presentations*

Loved this thread.  We have been to 3 in the last 6 months.  We were at one longer than we wanted to be, but the freebies were quite impressive($200 range), so we went.  At a couple of them we were asked questions before the presentation ie, are you prepared to purchase today if it is something you are interested in? do you have any plans for the rest of the day?  
So, they seem to be catching on to some of the excuses we may be trying to use.  In all 3 we just said "no", this isn't what we are looking for.  I really wanted to see the resorts(one was the new El Cid in Puerto Morelos).  Once I found out it was AI, that was our out.  We just don't do AI. Of course, they had other options, but we were done. We have 2 TS and both have been bought resale, so when we tell them what we spent they look at us like we are nuts.  ($100) for one of them.  It is always kinda funny.


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## timeos2

*It's fine but without the free paper and a squash court I'm not buying!*



wyobean said:


> Loved this thread.  We have been to 3 in the last 6 months.  We were at one longer than we wanted to be, but the freebies were quite impressive($200 range), so we went.  At a couple of them we were asked questions before the presentation ie, are you prepared to purchase today if it is something you are interested in? do you have any plans for the rest of the day?
> So, they seem to be catching on to some of the excuses we may be trying to use.  In all 3 we just said "no", this isn't what we are looking for.  I really wanted to see the resorts(one was the new El Cid in Puerto Morelos).  Once I found out it was AI, that was our out.  We just don't do AI. Of course, they had other options, but we were done. We have 2 TS and both have been bought resale, so when we tell them what we spent they look at us like we are nuts.  ($100) for one of them.  It is always kinda funny.



If one really wants an "out", "No, thank you" should be all that's required but often doesn't seem to work, always look for the un-fixable "flaw". That would be the absolutely non-negotiable desire for a three bedroom while the resort only has units with two or ocean front when they only have ocean view or worse to offer.  If you pick it carefully there is nothing they can say to overcome it and thus you can often get out past even the toughest closers quickly. A little tougher with systems than individual resorts but AI was a good one, a few others might be a specific location or two they don't have and the ability to reserve out a couple months more than the system offers. Be sure it's something they can't fix so you can ride off with your gift ASAP.


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## scrapngen

I went looking up TUG acronyms, but I'm definitely still a newbie...

So what is AI???


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## teepeeca

AI = all inclusive.  Usually where you pay an extra daily fee, and all of your meals, drinks, and some on-site activities are already paid for.  (My opinion---unless it is in an isolated area, the fees aren't worth it.)

Tony


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## rickandcindy23

a1000monkeys said:


> *He said resale is a waste of money and that open season benefits would go away for resale buyers.  I said why would I want to buy into a program that would strip benefits and further decimate resale prices. * At that point he switched tactics and said I would just be throwing away money by continuing to rent.  I said that if I can find rentals for less than maintenance fees then I'm saving money by not buying.  He then said then I'm throwing away money because I'm not building equity and then stated an example of his friend who bought in Lagoon tower for $39K and is selling it to the Japanese for $160K.  I told him I didn't know any Japanese people that stupid.



Love the line I bolded.  This is the classic line when any company slams resale, at much lower cost, of their own product.


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## scrapngen

teepeeca said:


> AI = all inclusive.  Usually where you pay an extra daily fee, and all of your meals, drinks, and some on-site activities are already paid for.  (My opinion---unless it is in an isolated area, the fees aren't worth it.)
> 
> Tony



Thanks, that makes a LOT more sense now, and I agree. The closest we ever came to an AI (now that I know what it is) was on an island in Fiji, and we still decided to do a partial plan rather than the full one suggested. Prefer to find our own restaurants, adventures, entertainment, etc. They just don't seem to suit us. Probably why my DH balks at cruises a bit as well.


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## auntsue

A newbie to the boards here, but I've been a member of TUG for many years.  This may be a naive question but I want to know if you think we will be pressured into attending a timeshare presentation in Hawaii next year, or do they not do that?  We traded our DVC points for a week at the Grand Waikikian  and I wondered if we are expected to attend one.  I ask this because in 08 my SIL gave us a week at her Wyndham timeshare in Williamsburg and they were very aggressive at check-in about attending a presentation.  DH was recovering from chemo at the time and we were there to rest.  I was very emphatic telling them we would not attend, but they were very pushy and made me feel very uncomfortable.  Do you think they will bother us at GW?

I don't know how timeshares other than Disney work but I do know that when my sis & BIL went with SIL and brother, they got talked into buying, even after I told her never to buy retail.  I had even told her about Williamsburg resales here on TUG in the 4-5K price range as opposed to the 10-12K they paid.  We talked about not buying for days.  She still bought.  The saleswoman was obviously very good.


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## gatorray

*Devil's Advocate Comments*

As I read all the comments about how bad TS presentations can be, I reflected on my own experience over the years. Yes, there are the high pressure situations. Sure TUG is great and we used TUG extensively when we were in our initial buying mode, but you have to "dive in" to a presentation to appreciate what TS's are really all about.  You can choose a dinner or show, some points, or a debit card to enjoy some local food or entertainment.  You should ask questions and get clear answers. You can steer the questioning away from your personal life if that's the direction it's going.  DON'T sign up for a TS presentation with just any company.  We were VERY specific about choosing Marriott because of its reputation and longevity in the industry. (Disclaimer: I/we are NOT employed by Marriott or any of its affiliates).  We own 3 weeks: 2 purchased directly from Marriott - one via the corporate office in Orlando and one on site. The 3rd was purchased at another resort via a TS broker who has a dedicated business buying, utilizing, and selling timeshares for a flat fee.  This broker owns dozens and dozens and favors Marriott's TS's. We almost always attend a TS presentation on our multiple annual visits, sometimes taking the 15,000 pts and sometimes the $50-100 cash ($ depends on the traffic and time of year, of course).  We have only had 1 very unpleasant experience, 1 annoying experience and about 9-10 very enjoyable experiences.  Once you are known to be an owner, the focus isn't so much on learning the basics but fine tuning the reservation and exchange system.  It's complicated and there are lots of rules but it sure beats owning expensive beachfront property and having 100% responsibility for ownership and maintenance.  Our 3 weeks are often parlayed into 4-5 weeks per yr since one of our purchases includes a lock-off that we exchange for a 2 bdr villa (at least it's worked for 3 yrs running).  We LOVE our TS's. We really think Marriott is the premier TS company. We have a relative that has 6 weeks with several other companies in the US and in Mexico.  He heard a Marriott presentation when he exchanged into our Fla. resort to join us for a family reunion. He and his wife asked lots of questions at their presentation having lots of experience with the other non-Marriott TS companies. He said his purchases over the past 10+ yrs don't compare with what Marriott has to offer and he regretted not seeking a Marriott TS earlier in his experiences.  Yes, you will pay more but you get so much more.  Lifetime deeded ownership with guaranteed softgoods replacement every 5 yrs and hardgoods every 7-9 yrs is part of the security of the ownership.  Would you purchase luxury property and maintain it like Marriott does, unlikely - too expensive unless you purchased with multiple families. We often take advantage of luxury villas for the price of a $900 maintenance fee - for 2 couples that works out to ~$65/night in a fabulous resort.   After reading about all those strategies to "get out of the presentation" or make the salesperson shut up are plain lame.  Go to learn, ask questions. If you don't like the direction of the presentation tell them - courteously.   Yes, I've been to non-Marriott presentations (twice in 30 yrs) and they were awful.  We haven't attempted going to any of the other TS company presentations since their track records are not so good.  Re-sales are fine once you get into ownership via the company IMHO.  You never get points with resale purchases and that's ok if you gather points otherwise.  You can earn tons of points using a Marriott Visa Rewards card (especially when you purchase a week with the card and/or staying at Marriott hotels if you travel.  We do.  We've met folks at some TS resorts that own 10-20+ weeks with Marriott.  Sold their vacation homes as they got tired of the upkeep and accepted paying maintenance fees with Marriott with EVERYTHING taken care of. (These are folks who winter in Fla for 4-5 mos a yr).   Again, we aren't Marriott employees trying to sell TS to TUG members. We do understand how the system works  for the most part as we utilize our weeks throughout the year.  Our kids will inherit our weeks when we're dead and gone since Marriott sells deeded weeks in perpetuity.  Keep an open mind folks.  It's not as bad as it sounds - especially how Marriott operates.  It's what you make of it.  TS's are not a new concept and folks who don't like the rules of the road are free to spend their money on rental houses and hotels.  Two of our relatives had their checks made out to purchase TS weeks during one of our joint vacations, but we convinced them that it was a lousy idea for them and we knew full well about their unrealistic expectations of ownership.  They were better off buying their own vacation homes and indeed are much happier without the TS purchases.  Hope this is helpful.  Someone needed to give a balanced viewpoint with all the negative stuff I've just read.
Gator Ray


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## a1000monkeys

Code:
	






auntsue said:


> A newbie to the boards here, but I've been a member of TUG for many years.  This may be a naive question but I want to know if you think we will be pressured into attending a timeshare presentation in Hawaii next year, or do they not do that?  We traded our DVC points for a week at the Grand Waikikian  and I wondered if we are expected to attend one.  I ask this because in 08 my SIL gave us a week at her Wyndham timeshare in Williamsburg and they were very aggressive at check-in about attending a presentation.  DH was recovering from chemo at the time and we were there to rest.  I was very emphatic telling them we would not attend, but they were very pushy and made me feel very uncomfortable.  Do you think they will bother us at GW?QUOTE]
> 
> I was at the Grand Waikikian a few weeks ago on a rental.  I found all the staff there to be very polite and helpful.  At check-in you will be greeted with leis and customer service rep may actually escort you to your room.  All of the concierges and customer service reps are Japanese.  She may have mentioned something about visiting the concierge when she escorted us to our room but I don't recall.
> 
> Once in our room there was an invitation to receive a free gift and a discount card.  The free gift is a little tote bag which we use as a re-usable grocery bag.  The discount card is utterly worthless.  You're better off using the numerous coupon books you can find around Waikiki.  We received a voice mail welcoming us and letting us know we should speak with the concierge if we need anything.
> 
> I did speak with the concierge and she was very polite and helpful.  She did invite me on a tour and offered $150 incentive to go.  I told her my wife would never agree to go and she didn't waste my time, gave me my free gift and the information I asked for.
> 
> In short, I didn't find the staff pushy about going on a presentation.  I did however go on the presentation since the latter part of my stay I was on a preview package and I was required to attend.  You can see my earlier post on how that went but the sales rep definitely wasn't the pushiest I have met and knew when to call it quits.
> 
> Personally I'm done with tours and a $150 incentive is not worth my precious vacation time.  If you don't want to go, just tell the concierge that and I don't think they'll bother you again.


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## auntsue

a1000monkeys...Thanks so much for that info.  We have no interest in going to a presentation, no matter what the incentive.  I think Hawaii is gorgeous, but the flight from Florida is grueling.  We've been three times, HHV in 1975, and two tours that stayed at the Royal Hawaiian in 1994 & 2008.  After we returned home in 08, I so regretted not even stepping a foot into the water (hyper because of my malignant melanoma in 06) that I felt we just had to go back one last time.  Since our 40th anniversary is next year, we put in for an exchange and were thrilled when it came through.  I was just dreading having to sit through the tp.

I see you didn't write a review of the GW.  How did you like it?  What can you tell me about it?   I read a review on Tripadvisor that it was great for kids, not so much for adults.  Do you agree?  We'll be by ourselves in a 1 BR.


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## a1000monkeys

auntsue said:


> a1000monkeys...
> I see you didn't write a review of the GW.  How did you like it?  What can you tell me about it?   I read a review on Tripadvisor that it was great for kids, not so much for adults.  Do you agree?  We'll be by ourselves in a 1 BR.



Auntsue:

I thought the 1br was a bit small but we had kids with us.  It should be plenty big for just 2 people.  Request a direct ocean view if possible or a room facing the resort if not.  The first room we had was a high floor over Ala Moana blvd, it was noisy and too windy to enjoy the lanai.  We were able to move after the first night and got a low floor direct ocean view (room 701) that had specatuclar views of the sunset.

The rooms and the resort itself is beautiful.  The beach and lagoon are great.  The drawback are the pools are crowded.  You might do better if you are going on a non-school vacation time but when we went (President's day week) if we weren't by the pool by 9a we couldn't get a chair.

There are also only two spas and both were way too crowded (and full of kids).  It's also a bit of a walk from the GW to the pool/beach.  The beach activities were very expensive and some of the charges were downright obnoxious ($5 to use the compressed air pump to blow up beach toys).

On the plus side the resort is gorgeous and centrally located.  You can skip renting a car and save yourself the $30/night parking fee.  The shuttles and buses can take you around Waikiki.  If you want to just rent a car for a day there is an Alamo and Thrifty just off site.  The Hertz on site had limited hours and was pretty expensive. 

We had a great time but I don't think I would do a week at that property again.  We prefer Ko Olina and then spending just a few days in Waikiki.


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## UWSurfer

*Ooopppss we did it again...*

NO, we didn't buy another timeshare, but we did sit though another 90 minute presentation, this time to get an average of 20% discount on activities we are booking on the Island of Kauai.

This pitch was by a 31 y/o nearly native at the Wyndham center here in Princeville.   We were very clear we were there only to meet our obligation for the discount, had too many timeshares and weren't interested in anything he was selling.  His reply:  Everyone says that.

He was nice enough at first and then pulled out his plastic sleeved presentation book telling us how great Wyndham was and a mix of lies AND using "absolutely under the best circumstances math" (autbcm) how converting our RCI points week to a Hawaii Wyndam deed would save us money, allowing us to do 4 weeks vacation and using the points for airfare and rental car while conveniently forgetting to add in the cost of the purchase price or that the week we exchanged in with was 1/3rd the cost of a Hawaii MF.  (sigh)   For that matter he forgot to mention by doing all this we'd not be able to use the Hawaii week he's pushing.


He also couldn't believed we exchanged in here (Shearwater) and pulled out "...do you always come to presentations just to get the gift."   Without batting an eye we said, "Yes, if it's going to save us money for our stay" which this discount card will do, followed quickly with a "we told you upfront why were were here and that we weren't buying what you are selling".

His corporate closer offered us a "trail package" but knew we weren't interested...just throwing it out there so he could say he did.  Overall a waste of time.   

Still, it was annoying to have to sit and have him go through his entire spiel when we weren't interested and he knew we weren't.   I suspect he had to make an honest effort to please his bosses because as of 12:30 pm we were only # 5 to sign the gift ledger and he wasn't not the only sales person there.

aaaarrrrrggggg!!  
Never again...until the next time.


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## erichner

*the value based approach to timeshare presentations*

1. Data Mining -you are there to learn - learn how their systems work
2. Find their system's flaws... for example a company showed us their New Orleans timeshares and tried to sell us a one week discovery pack for a 2 bedrooms. The price they asked for the package would not cover the cost of a one week stay at hotel accommodations in the Charleston historic district area. So I agreed to buy as long as the 2 bedroom week was valid in Charleston. When the contract came - it clearly said that only 1 bedrooms were available in their Charleston timeshare. So they promptly refunded my un-cashed check. and I got all my freebies in a record time. Again - catch them lying to you - that will speed up your exit strategy.
3. Use the resale strategy - go online before your meeting and get some prices from ebay. If they deny that all owners get the same treatment - show that they are the ones destroying the non-existant resale value.
4. Buy a timeshare for the right reasons and not for their promises for exotic exchanges via RCI nor II. They are worthless. The only valid reason is that you love to go to the same resort year after year. I know because I bought in New Orleans - and every time I go back I love the place more. I also bought at the beach - driving distance from my home and I always go there because I love it and if you were to rent there - it would be more expensive than the timeshare. BTW I bought the beach timeshare via ebay at an average of 2-3 cents per dollar. I love it when my $1,500 purchase sold originally for $15,000 and that my 2nd ebay purchase for additional points @ $600 including title transfer actually paid the original owner a single $1 - see if they can beat that!
5. If you can't say no - go ahead and buy - get all your freebies and follow clearly the 3-day return procedure. I know - I returned 2 contracts and actually bought my 3rd one on a more expensive property that have given me lots of joy in the 16 years since I purchased it. That 3rd contract was much better value and allowed me 90 days to get my own financing or to pay down the principal without penalty for a lower interest rate.
6. If you are really - really bad a@@ - make or pretend to make a reservation for any activity you want exactly 90 minutes from your start time - and then - if you miss it - make them pay for the activity - if bold, go ahead and buy the timeshare. Just make sure you return it in within the 3 day free look period.  By doing this - the salesperson will give you whatever you want for them to close the contract. Make sure you return everything they ask and get receipts. Your money, or deposit will be refunded - otherwise you can take them to the cleaners legally.


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## Wingle

My 2 cents and my first post too...

Probably too late for this poster but I'd recommend going along for the ride and get real information. I had never considered a time share before but recently while on holiday in Mexico we were invited to one of these presentations. After listening to the presentation and asking relevant questions, I am a little wiser. Yes, the original offer was for $14,000 which dropped down to just over $10,000 with signing costs with no maintenance fees for a lifetime ownership (this was smartly packaged as 30 weeks stretched to 60 weeks) of an all inclusive but they wouldn't fill in the details, such as if all the meals and booze were included with the deal and how many weeks use per year etc. There were some mention of $128 to 143 but I don't know if that was per night or per week.  I'd have to know all the ins and outs before laying my money down. These things get brushed aside very smoothly and the big picture is offered gleaming and sparkly in your future. It's the small stuff that needs to be looked at too and they can trip you up and bring you to your knees just like shoelaces.

 It's your money, learn, ask questions and ask friends or colleagues at work if they have any T/S experience to share.

The freebie in our case was worth it, a 30 minute back massage for both of us and a candlelit dinner on the beach. But the 'presentation' was two and a half hours.
 ps any info on Karisma timeshares would be appreciated.


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## PamMo

The first time I went on a timeshare tour (Las Vegas), I didn't have a clue what a timeshare was. We were told they would lavish us with lots of freebies for the big gaggle of teenagers we had with us - just to hear about a great opportunity to vacation in Las Vegas - and around the world! When we got into the presentation, I asked too many questions, and they told us it really wasn't for us    , and quickly ushered us out of the room. I was a little hurt. I still had lots of questions, but never got the chance to ask them. 

Lo and behold, fast forward several years. I found TUG and mined the creative, hardworking, and downright brilliant minds of other TUGgers for tips and strategies, and have had an incredible experience owning multiple timeshares. Many, many heartfelt thanks to all those TUGgers who help newbies (and some of us not so newbies) out there!


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## macstepic

*We survived our timeshare presentation!*

A while back I posted a query for suggestions on surviving a timeshare presentation. The replies I received were informative and laugh out loud entertaining.

I am back to report that we did get through our timeshare persecution with a minimum of pain and suffering. 

96 minutes.

Yes, indeedy…we managed to complete our timeshare presentation obligation in 96 minutes flat. Perhaps we lucked out. The salesman assigned to us was more than happy to dispense with the movie and facility tour and get right to the questionnaire designed to ferret out how much discretionary money we have.

With a little small talk, we find out that he is a former real estate agent. He does not explicitly say it but we get the idea that he is working as a timeshare sales rep because he needs the job. 

He opens with the question, “How much do you know about timeshares?”

I (ever so sweetly) tell him that that right now a timeshare purchase does not fit in our financial picture and that if we were to buy one, it would be resale. We agreed to the invitation as a chance to experience the Hilton property and take advantage of a inexpensive trip to Las Vegas.

After that, we were polite and attentive. He presented the benefits of the Hilton system and then shocked us with the retail prices of the ‘popular packages’. I can only remember the details of the first package. It was $42,000 for 7000 platinum points. 

We all are very aware that this is just the smoke and mirror part of the sales pitch because the next step is to get his boss to see if there are some deals that would fit our budget a little better. The second salesman has what he describes as a very basic package for $11,044. We did not ask to see the particulars, we just politely declined. They did not try to hard sell us and that was that. We were done.

As we thanked our first sales rep and said our goodbyes, he whispered to us, “If you do buy resale, use a reputable agent and make sure there are no liens and the maintenance fees are paid up. You don’t want any nasty surprises.”

Our stay at the Hilton was a positive one. The service was top notch. However, I think 90% of the guests are there for the timeshare sales experience. During our presentation, there must have been at least 60 other couples receiving the same sales pitch. (I wonder if the service at the Hiltons that are not primarily used for sales is as good?)

We had dinner at Benihana the next night and one of the couples seated with us also went through the Hilton timeshare pitch. They were not so lucky. Their appointment lasted longer than 2 hours and the sales people would not give up. They kept coming up with offer after offer. They did not buy either but would have liked to had the prices been better. 

If we had the discretionary money I would certainly consider buying a Hilton timeshare. My only concern is that in the Hilton system the second bedroom has another full or queen bed. I would prefer the second bedroom to have 2 beds.

Anyway, I have determined that if/when we do purchase a timeshare it will be one that has a the flexibility of a point system. I just don't know what company it will be.

Thank you again for all the sage advice,
Karen
PS. my hubbie made me swear to never ever put him through one of those again!


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## falmouth3

Congratulations on a well thought out plan of attack.  Sounds like you did a great job.

DH has said that he doesn't want to go to anymore presentations and then will often find a reason to go to one.  We have been very lucky in that ours haven't gone over the agreed time limit.  In fact, we've been able to get out pretty quickly in a couple of them.  

Sue


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## Patri

macstepic said:


> As we thanked our first sales rep and said our goodbyes, he whispered to us, “If you do buy resale, use a reputable agent and make sure there are no liens and the maintenance fees are paid up. You don’t want any nasty surprises.”



I like that. He is one in a million.


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## Brerrabbit

*Leave your wallet, checkbook, & credit cards at home*

Don't even take them in there.  Take very little cash.  That way you can't use it.


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## AwayWeGo

*Don't Leave Home Without It.*




Brerrabbit said:


> Leave your wallet, checkbook, & credit cards at home


Trouble is, the reception desk person at the sales center will need to see I.D. (driver's license, passport, etc.) + 1 credit card in order to let you in for your shot at the old hard-sell razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Talent312

I like these survival stories... its interesting to see how others get thru the harrowing experience.
To bad you can't leave behind a spouse who's easily impressed.
---------------------
For the young and immortal it may not matter, but free-time has become a rather valuable commodity to me, and I've concluded that the incentives are not worth more.


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## scrapngen

Talent312 said:


> I like these survival stories... its interesting to see how others get thru the harrowing experience.
> To bad you can't leave a spouse who's easily impressed behind.
> ---------------------
> For the young and immortal it may not matter, but free-time has become a rather valuable commodity to me, and I've concluded that the incentives are not worth more.



:hysterical: :hysterical:

My DH does get excited, but tries to hold back and to check with me (as the "expert") as to the legitimacy of the salespeople's claims now. 
What's funny is that the pushier salespeople seem a little leary of me (!), even after only 6 months of TUG education:whoopie: 

I would love to be a fly on the wall of the meetings involving long-timers who really know their stuff!!  The entertainment value would be huge!!


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## deedman

after the presentation say no and thank them for their time, then before they can counter you with other offers tell them their performance encouraged you to sell timeshares instead of buying them, then ask them for a job application.  The look of confusion should be more valuable then the freebie they give you.


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## Stoneman

*Daytona Beach TS presentation*

I'm wondering if this has ever happened to any of you old-timers at TUG ?
True story. We got into the world of TS in 1996. bought at Morritt's. We've been to about 6 presentations since. Last one was Daytona 4 years ago. Went to the presentation on Friday morn. While waiting a man approached, ask our names, and then said something that was truly astounding. At least to me. He knew we owned 2 other TS's. He asked us if we really there to buy ? I said "not really".  He took us into a room alone, we chit-chatted about 1/2 hour then he gave us our goodies and we left. Only time thats ever happened. Anyone else ?


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## ace2000

deedman said:


> after the presentation say no and thank them for their time, then before they can counter you with other offers tell them their performance encouraged you to sell timeshares instead of buying them, then ask them for a job application. The look of confusion should be more valuable then the freebie they give you.


 
I like this approach!!!


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## Talent312

Stoneman said:


> I'm wondering if this has ever happened to any of you old-timers at TUG ?
> True story. We got into the world of TS in 1996. bought at Morritt's. We've been to about 6 presentations since. Last one was Daytona 4 years ago. Went to the presentation on Friday morn. While waiting a man approached, ask our names, and then said something that was truly astounding. At least to me. He knew we owned 2 other TS's. He asked us if we really there to buy? I said "not really." He took us into a room alone, we chit-chatted about 1/2 hour then he gave us our goodies and we left. Only time thats ever happened. Anyone else ?



Perhaps they thought you might use your knowledge of TS reality and the falsehoods they intended to present to drive away other marks, and isolating you gave them a freer hand.


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## WILLIFT

*Is there a version of "TS Salesman's TUG"*

Just got back from our trip to Honolulu. 

We're timeshare presentation junkies. This trip 5 presetations Hilton, Wyhdam, Shells, Marriot & Paradise-Blue equaled $600.00 in gifts. Cant really explain it and don't care to defend it we just do it. I guess we keep the street hawkers employeed.

My question concerns the fact that most of the presenters knew we had been to multiple presentations, almost as though they were communicating about their "marks" via some social networking.

Anybody ever experience or know of a Timeshare Salesman webpage?


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## RedDogSD

This was a fun and interesting thread.  Everyone had great ideas except for the Marriott Sales Rep who still insists that we should buy a week from the developer before going resale.  No thanks.  

Anyways, I have been to so many of these things.  I don't go for the cheap deals ($50-$100 is not enough).  I make them pull out all of the stops.  In Hawaii recently, we went to the Diamond Resorts presentation.  They gave us $220 towards Helicopter ride.  Recently, we did HGVC in Vegas again.  They gave us free room for the weekend, plus $50 gift card plus $50 in chips.  

At the Grandview presentation, we got free weekend in Hotel room plus $100 Casino Voucher.  

Make sure to press the OPC for EVERYTHING that he is authorized to give out. We almost did 2 on one trip to Vegas, but the Grandview presentation made us late for the 2nd one, so we could not get our gifts.  We were getting a free Helicopter ride, and 2 for 1 dinner, and a free show.  That was a good deal.  We will look for that one again.  The OPC was at the Caesars Palace and I can't remember which TS he was fronting for.


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## Rob&Carol Q

WILLIFT said:


> My question concerns the fact that most of the presenters knew we had been to multiple presentations, almost as though they were communicating about their "marks" via some social networking.
> 
> Anybody ever experience or know of a Timeshare Salesman webpage?




Now THAT would be a fun board to lurk on...  

Any Weasels care to comment?  Come on, I know you read this... :hysterical:


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## BlindBat

WILLIFT said:


> Just got back from our trip to Honolulu.
> 
> *We're timeshare presentation junkies. This trip 5 presetations Hilton, Wyhdam, Shells, Marriot & Paradise-Blue equaled $600.00 in gifts. Cant really explain it and don't care to defend it we just do it. I guess we keep the street hawkers employeed.*
> 
> My question concerns the fact that most of the presenters knew we had been to multiple presentations, almost as though they were communicating about their "marks" via some social networking.
> 
> Anybody ever experience or know of a Timeshare Salesman webpage?



I had to laugh at that. I thought we were junkies seeing as how we have been to about 10 over the last 5 years... we did buy one (and another on re-sale) so I don't feel too bad.


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## MalibuMike

*Time Share Presentations*

Never attend them. You will only lose money, time, and more money. Never attend them. The carnival atmosphere, loud music and cheap gift are not worth it................


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## theo

*To each his / her own, but...*



MalibuMike said:


> Never attend them. You will only lose money, time, and more money. Never attend them. The carnival atmosphere, loud music and cheap gift are not worth it................



I completely agree with your observation / advice, but some people simply do not value their time, wasting precious (and forever lost) hours to collect worthless trinkets .   It never ceases to astound me...


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## RedDogSD

I will say that I like to attend presentations for new points systems.  I learned a TON at the HGVC and Diamond Points presentations.  I have no problem saying no, but it let me decide which programs to buy resale.  TUG has lots of information, but the TS salespeople can give decent info if you press them.


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## PhillyChic

Duplicate post removed


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## PhillyChic

theo said:


> I completely agree with your observation / advice, but some people simply do not value their time, wasting precious (and forever lost) hours to collect worthless trinkets .   It never ceases to astound me...



I'm of the same school of thought, never go. I just don't like to waste my precious vacation hours.

However I have to admit that I did get sucked into one last time. The offer was just way too good to pass up even though I knew what I was in for. For $20 deposit, I got a free weekend at the resort instead of some cheap hotel, and $150 check in my pocket all in exchange for two hours of my time. (Okay, so they promised 60 minutes, but I knew it was going to be longer)

So, went through the tour, didn't take too long since we were already staying at the resort and did actually get some of my questions answered about RCI. Came to the end and he just wouldn't take our no no no for an answer. So my husband - sneaky as he is - finally "admitted" to our salesman that he did reservations for a different timeshare resort (one we actually own) and just had been curious to see what other resorts offered since theirs was so expensive.

We were out of there (with their money!) before the salesman could scrape his jaw off the floor. :whoopie:

Don't know if I would recommend this tactic to the faint of heart, or if it would really work at all resorts without getting yelled at, but it sure did get us out of there!


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## PhillyChic

Rob&Carol Q said:


> Now THAT would be a fun board to lurk on...
> 
> Any Weasels care to comment?  Come on, I know you read this... :hysterical:



There used to be a better one, but it got shut down   -I believe from all the slander suits generated back and forth between resorts, but I could be off on that. 

All I know of now is www.insidethegate.com


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## kasteer

YeongWoo said:


> Most of these responses were pure gold.  I vote for the no-go.  Life's too short...
> 
> If you do go my second vote is the t-shirt for TUG.  Any oh yeah, I'd take the plunge and buy resale because it sounds like you've got a handle on things.  You can't beat some of the prices that are out there.



X2

I bought a week in Daytona Beach for $500 out the door... from ebay.  A week in Hawaii closed with zero bids... asking price was $295 plus closing.  Deals are out there!!!!!


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