# My New Purchase WKORV



## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

After some debate about my previous purchase of HRA I took TUG members advice and canceled that transaction.
Just bought Westin Kaanapali Ocean View 2BR LO for 11K including all the closing costs from "sellingtimeguys" I'm happy with the purchase and love that resort. Anything I should know about the closings or paperwork? Again thanks everyone.


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## yumdrey (Nov 9, 2010)

Hawaiian TS trasnfer should use escrow co. in Hawaii (a new law). Just check it out for smoothe transaction.
Also, if seller (owner) can make 2011 reservation, it would be good for you to have higher demand week next year. 
You did great on price!


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

Before you make the final payment, ask the closing company to get a [Starwood Resale Information Sheet] from Starwood for you - it will confirm the details of what you actually purchased.  Don't make the final payment until you get it.  This unit will also have to pass ROFR.


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions. Also since im new to starwood, where do I begin? Should I open an account at starwood/II/RCI ? I've also heard signing up for SPG AMEX is a good idea. I currently use only 1 credit card with purchases around 70K annually which gives me roughly 1400 in cash back. Which option is better for me: Stick with my Card or change to SPG? I do get ALL the benefits with my current card all the insurances and double mfr warranty etc.

Mike


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

You will automatically have a corporate II Acct., but no way would I exchange this week with II or RCI.  It's kind of like exchanging your Mercedes for a pool of Chevy's.  With an expensive resort, stick with Staroptions trades or renting.  If you want a cheap II trader, buy a week at SDO or SBP, as discussed in your other thread.

You can't do anything until the deed is in your name, besides the suggestions above about the [Starwood Resale Information Sheet], ROFR, and asking the owner to make a 2011 reservation.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 9, 2010)

Sage advice above, and I advise to get the AMEX SPG card - but be aware of the fees involved as they just went up.


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

What is fact sheet?
ROFR: What are the chances starwood exercising that option at this price? I've seen some on Ebay sold at lower price. I guess it will depend on the demand. 
Do i need title insurance?

Mike


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

A [Starwood Resale Information Sheet] is an information sheet that your closing company can request from Starwood that will document exactly what you are buying.

If you get the [Starwood Resale Information Sheet], before you make your final payment, I wouldn't pay for title insurance.


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## yumdrey (Nov 9, 2010)

babamike said:


> ROFR: What are the chances starwood exercising that option at this price? I've seen some on Ebay sold at lower price. I guess it will depend on the demand.
> Do i need title insurance?
> 
> Mike



Not all those ebay low prices have passed ROFR. There were the reports that starwood exercised ROFR for platinum mission hill weeks or for westin maui.
Also many of Hilton weeks on ebay were bought back to Hilton.
I usually buy title insurance for over 5k purchase, but it's just me.


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## RoshiGuy (Nov 9, 2010)

babamike said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Also since im new to starwood, where do I begin? Should I open an account at starwood/II/RCI ? I've also heard signing up for SPG AMEX is a good idea. I currently use only 1 credit card with purchases around 70K annually which gives me roughly 1400 in cash back. Which option is better for me: Stick with my Card or change to SPG? I do get ALL the benefits with my current card all the insurances and double mfr warranty etc.
> 
> Mike



Since you're already getting 2% (cash back) on CC purchases, whether the SPG Amex will get you more depends on how you use SPG points.

70K in spend will yield 70K SPs (unless you're spending some of the money at Starwood hotels). The best value redemptions are for stays at Starwood hotels (during peak times) or for international business class air travel. If you are unlikely to do either of these then I would stick with the card that gives you 2% cash back.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 9, 2010)

DavidnRobin said:


> Sage advice above, and I advise to get the AMEX SPG card - but be aware of the fees involved as they just went up.



The OP is Canadian I believe, so we have a different set of fees (didn't go up, but they're already double what you pay in the USA) and benefits (or lack thereof ) on our SPG AMEXs...


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

Yes Im from Vancouver Canada, I do travel international to Asia for business 1-2 times a year. I have always debated about credit cards and stuck with cash back instead of all those point systems.
I've also noticed with SPG spending over 30K gives me Gold Elite membership? Does that come in handy or just another selling perk?

I have asked the seller to provide me with a Fact Sheet, waiting for the reply.


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

The closing company will have to request the [Starwood Resale Information Sheet].

Gold status might come in handy with Asian travel, but in the US, it is nearly useless, because so many people have it.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 9, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> The closing company will have to request the fact sheet.
> 
> It might come in handy with Asian travel, but in the US, it is nearly useless, because so many people have it.



I have received (and reported) upgrades as a SPG Gold (in US) - whether I would have received them anyway - I do not know.  Is it worth it? Not sure, but we have accumulated a lot of SPs using the AMEX SPG.  I used both a cash back (1%) VISA credit card and the SPG AMEX card.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 9, 2010)

babamike said:


> Yes Im from Vancouver Canada, I do travel international to Asia for business 1-2 times a year. I have always debated about credit cards and stuck with cash back instead of all those point systems.
> I've also noticed with SPG spending over 30K gives me Gold Elite membership? Does that come in handy or just another selling perk?
> 
> I have asked the seller to provide me with a Fact Sheet, waiting for the reply.



Howdy neighbour -- I'm in Victoria...

You should automatically get SPG Gold with the WKORV purchase -- as long as you're an owner in good standing within SVN (which you should be with that mandatory purchase), I believe that's a benefit.

I don't believe the Canadian SPG AMEX entitles us to any upgrades, free nights towards Gold/Platinum qualification, etc.


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

Howdy !! hows the island?

Here is the link to the auction (it states 11,200 but final negotiated price is 11K including closing costs). Seems like a very reputable seller, im not sure which closing company they will be using.
I will ask them to reserve a week in summer for me, hopefully still available.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330494347529&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Here is another question: lets say I use my points and book somewhere else. I have 148K staroptions but the week Im getting somewhere else (lets say Harborside) is worth less. What would happen to other points? I read somewhere the points expire after a year.

Mike


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## YYJMSP (Nov 9, 2010)

babamike said:


> Howdy !! hows the island?



Either today's storm is your fault, or it's heading your way!



babamike said:


> Here is another question: lets say I use my points and book somewhere else. I have 148K staroptions but the week Im getting somewhere else (lets say Harborside) is worth less. What would happen to other points? I read somewhere the points expire after a year.



You have to use them up by Dec 31st of the use year.

The alternative is that you only use up either 67,100 SOs (i.e. your studio-side) or 81,000 SOs (i.e. your 1BR-side), and bank the other side with II and try to use it trade back in to WKORV/N (or some other SVN property) within the following 18 months (I think that's the time period).  Not necessarily the best value of using the unit (we still have a 2009 unit that we did this to, and haven't found a useful unit at the right time, etc...)

Or you can book a week and rent it out instead to recover some of your MFs -- we did this recently and it works out pretty well, especially with high-demand weeks (i.e. summer, American Thanksgiving, etc)


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

Just to clarify:
Staroptions = the exchange value of your TS in the SVN
Starpoints = Starwood Hotel Points - resales don't have them​


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Just to clarify:
> Staroptions = the exchange value of your TS in the SVN
> Starpoints = Starwood Hotel Points - resales don't have them​



Yes I was talking about Staroptions. Starpoints is what i'll be collecting with SPG...?

Just got the fact sheet in the email, anything i need to look for?

In case Starwood exercises ROFR and the closing company returns my money, will be paying 2-3% Paypal's Cut? Hmmm interesting....


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 9, 2010)

If the money is refunded - then PayPal returns fee.


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

Here is a sample Starwood Resale Information Sheet that someone else posted.


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Here is a sample Starwood Resale Information Sheet that someone else posted.



Yes I got the same sheet. MF is paid 0.00 balance. Unit 361109.
I will send the payment today. Hope Starwood will let it complete.


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

Who are you sending the payment to?  By law, escrow must be held by a licensed escrow company IN Hawaii.


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Who are you sending the payment to?  By law, escrow must be held by a licensed escrow company IN Hawaii.



Looks like a company name Elite Resort Transfers LLC. I haven't gotten the Invoice yet just sent the completed paperwork back.


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

babamike said:


> Looks like a company name Elite Resort Transfers LLC. I haven't gotten the Invoice yet just sent the completed paperwork back.



You need to ask them exactly who is holding Escrow, because Elite Resort Transfers is in Orlando.  By law, escrow on a Hawaii TS must be held in Hawaii.


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> You need to ask them exactly who is holding Escrow, because Elite Resort Transfers is in Orlando.  By law, escrow on a Hawaii TS must be held in Hawaii.



Looks like it will go to MTR Escrow, here is another thread about their service:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=774554

Not sure how they going to do it but im sure from the reviews they do this every day and are very good at it.

Mike


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## DeniseM (Nov 9, 2010)

That is an old thread, and this is a new law.  If MTR Escrow is not a licensed escrow service in Hawaii, it's not legal.  You need to ask them which escrow service in Hawaii they use, and you should be sending the money directly to the escrow Acct.  If you are sending it to the seller - there is no escrow.

Here is a summary:



> The Governor recently signed the SB 2921 bill into law which states all escrow or escrow depository, for all Hawaii real esate transactions, are to be handled by a licensed Hawaii company effective July 1, 2010. This includes timeshares. The bill states
> *No person shall act as an escrow depository from an out-of-state location for property located in this state unless licensed to act as a Hawaii escrow depository by the commissioner. "SB2921 HDI*
> 
> *This will affect Mainland based escrow agencies handling Hawaii timeshare closings.*


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> That is an old thread, and this is a new law.  If MTR Escrow is not a licensed escrow service in Hawaii, it's not legal.  You need to ask them which escrow service in Hawaii they use, and you should be sending the money directly to the escrow Acct.  If you are sending it to the seller - there is no escrow.
> 
> Here is a summary:



Thanks for the information, I will promptly ask if their Escrow company complies under the new law. I don't think Im sending the money to the seller. I haven't seen the invoice yet.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 9, 2010)

babamike said:


> Unit 361109



The eBay item says it's unit 221008, week 34.  Not a big deal, as they're both ocean view 2BR units...


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## babamike (Nov 9, 2010)

YYJMSP said:


> The eBay item says it's unit 221008, week 34.  Not a big deal, as they're both ocean view 2BR units...



Yes i noticed, looks like they used older template. Oh well Im getting a better unit lol they are all the same i guess it really depends on what they give you upon check in.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 9, 2010)

babamike said:


> Oh well Im getting a better unit lol



Doesn't matter -- you won't get the actual deeded unit (unless you paid an extra 10% over retail originally to fix the unit number).

Important thing is that it's still the right size unit, view category, and season (which doesn't matter at WKORV/N, since they're all Platinum+...)


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## Fredm (Nov 10, 2010)

babamike said:


> Thanks for the information, I will promptly ask if their Escrow company complies under the new law. I don't think Im sending the money to the seller. I haven't seen the invoice yet.



Be careful. As a Canadian citizen you will be subject to FIRPTA and HARPTA if/when you sell. US and Hawaii tax returns must be filed to retrieve the withholding.
Nothing new about that. But, the new Hawaii escrow law was, in part, put in place to insure that Hawaii taxes were paid. When you sell they will match the original purchase data with the sale info to verify the validity of the refund. 
If your purchase was not escrowed in Hawaii, the fine is $5,000.

Of course, the other reason for the new law is to feed Hawaii-based title/escrow companies. They are taxed on their business revenues.
Some mainland closing agents are (for now) simply ignoring the Hawaii law. As Hawaii regulators get up to speed on their audit activities of these transactions, the dung will hit the fan. The violating closing agents will be fined the $5,000, *per transaction*.
You do not want to have an open escrow with such a closing agent if/when that happens.

To be clear, I am not saying that your closing agent is violating the current Hawaii law. Just be aware of the potential complications.


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## babamike (Nov 10, 2010)

Can someone post a link to the new Hawaii escrow law? I have to send this to the closing company. They said they are not aware of it...strange.


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## mstoyanov (Nov 10, 2010)

Quick Google search shows this (there is also a link to the full text in that page):
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2010/lists/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2921



babamike said:


> Can someone post a link to the new Hawaii escrow law? I have to send this to the closing company. They said they are not aware of it...strange.


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## DeniseM (Nov 10, 2010)

babamike said:


> Can someone post a link to the new Hawaii escrow law? I have to send this to the closing company. They said they are not aware of it...strange.



That's what I was afraid of...  And frankly - I don't believe them.


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## babamike (Nov 10, 2010)

Yes thanks I had found the same link through google. I sent it in, see what they say. My guess is they will still say "its ok we do this everyday" So which other transfer company I can suggest to the seller?


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## vacationtime1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Old Republic Title in Honolulu has a timeshare division and they do these closings efficiently.  But expensively; expect $800-$1,000 for what would cost half as much in most other places.


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## babamike (Nov 10, 2010)

so let me get this straight, all the timeshares that are sold right now are going to through HI escrow? 100's get sold everyday, I doubt even 2% are going through proper avenue. Does it affect me more because I'm Canadian?

Mike


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## DeniseM (Nov 10, 2010)

See Fred's post above (#32)  He is in the business and knows what he is talking about.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 10, 2010)

babamike said:


> so let me get this straight, all the timeshares that are sold right now are going to through HI escrow? 100's get sold everyday, I doubt even 2% are going through proper avenue. Does it affect me more because I'm Canadian?



Another thing to check on is the signing requirements.

We had to travel down to a US-based notary to do the paperwork on our second unit from WKORV/N because we weren't on-site there at the time of purchase (like we were on our first).  Luckily we were on our way down to San Francisco anyways, so we made arrangements there.

If this is still the case, the easiest thing for you might be to drive across to Point Roberts by the ferries (only a few minutes at the border crossing) -- there's a notary in town there who does this type of stuff all the time...

This wasn't a requirement on our SVR or WLR units -- we were able to just sign here and send in the paperwork from home.


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## babamike (Nov 10, 2010)

Wow this seems to get easier by the minute lol. I had already signed (online) and returned all their paperwork yesterday. Havent sent the money yet because of all this this. They are looking into it and see how they can do it 100% proper. At this time they closing company is waiting to hear back from their legal adviser, they let me know what needs to be done.
If i need to travel across the border for this not a big deal, my tundra can always use some cheap gas ;-)


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## YYJMSP (Nov 10, 2010)

babamike said:


> Wow this seems to get easier by the minute lol.



Welcome to the joys of "je suis Canadien" when dealing with US-based transactions.



babamike said:


> If i need to travel across the border for this not a big deal, my tundra can always use some cheap gas ;-)



Tell me about it -- I just paid $1.26/L this morning to fill up with premium.  That's $4.79USD/gallon for those of you south of the border.  I think that's going for around $3.40/gallon in Bellingham...


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## Fredm (Nov 10, 2010)

Deleted ..........


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## babamike (Nov 10, 2010)

I actually live 15 minutes from the boarder "South Surrey" I also have a nexus pass so crossing border is like a drive through, no biggy.

Oh yes the gas is $3.29 in Blaine.

I just saw some ebay sellers are using following company:
http://www.tghawaii.com/

I have forwarded this link to the seller hope we can use these guys instead.

Thanks for your advice fredm.

And btw still have to pass ROFR...what a joy.


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## paluamalia (Nov 11, 2010)

*Congratulations*



babamike said:


> After some debate about my previous purchase of HRA I took TUG members advice and canceled that transaction.
> Just bought Westin Kaanapali Ocean View 2BR LO for 11K including all the closing costs from "sellingtimeguys" I'm happy with the purchase and love that resort. Anything I should know about the closings or paperwork? Again thanks everyone.



Congratulations!!  Did you buy an EOY or annual?  We have had the Starwood Amex card for 8 years and have not bought an airline ticket in all that time..wait for the promotion when they offer you 20 - 30 thousand points.  
Good luck and welcome to the WKORV family!!

Marie


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## babamike (Nov 11, 2010)

paluamalia said:


> Congratulations!!  Did you buy an EOY or annual?  We have had the Starwood Amex card for 8 years and have not bought an airline ticket in all that time..wait for the promotion when they offer you 20 - 30 thousand points.
> Good luck and welcome to the WKORV family!!
> 
> Marie


Hi Marie, its annual use. So if I spend around 70K a year on the card, do you think starpoints are worth more than 1400 cash? or I guess it depends on how you use the points.


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## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2010)

70,000 Starpoints = 87,500 airline miles on most airlines.

You could use those miles to buy tickets for your trips to Hawaii.

I am guessing that from your location, airfare for 2 is more than $1,400?


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## babamike (Nov 11, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> 70,000 Starpoints = 87,500 airline miles on most airlines.
> 
> You could use those miles to buy tickets for your trips to Hawaii.
> 
> I am guessing that from your location, airfare for 2 is more than $1,400?



Thats a very good comparison. Looks like it works out to be the same, if I fly from Seattle its usually around $500 a ticket. Flying from Vancouver Canada is around $700, TBH I've never done much of research about airmiles I always thought their system was way to complicated where flying to Maui uses 50K miles versus 30K during sale/slow period. To me miles are miles, maui is always at the same distance. May be I'm confusing with point system.
That was the reason I stuck with cashback for all these years, I didnt want to deal with all those crazy booking restrictions.


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## Fredm (Nov 11, 2010)

How is the legal adviser doing with resolving the Hawaii escrow?


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 11, 2010)

I used 80K Mileage Plus (UA) miles to fly RT/NS SFO-OGG (2 passengers) on the UA flights we wanted (leave Sat morning, depart Sat afternoon) - for a flight in 3 weeks - that I reserved about 8 months ago.  Since I am Premier Exec for MP - I got to choose Economy Plus seating.  These planes have 2-5-2 seat configurations - perfect for us.

Good example of how you can get to HI cheaply with some pre-planning (a benefit for thosing TSing...).  I put the price of miles (for me - maybe not for you...) at 1.3 cents per mile - so this was a very good deal.  Right now we have ~300K SPs (mainly from AMEX SPG) and ~200K MP miles, but limited vacation time.


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## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2010)

babamike said:


> Thats a very good comparison. Looks like it works out to be the same, if I fly from Seattle its usually around $500 a ticket. Flying from Vancouver Canada is around $700, TBH I've never done much of research about airmiles I always thought their system was way to complicated where flying to Maui uses 50K miles versus 30K during sale/slow period. To me miles are miles, maui is always at the same distance. May be I'm confusing with point system.
> That was the reason I stuck with cashback for all these years, I didnt want to deal with all those crazy booking restrictions.



Hawaiian Airline flies out of Seattle and there are no black out dates for using your miles with them.  

On Hawaiian Air, flights start at 35,000 miles (RT from Seattle to Maui.)  So you can get 2.5 RT tix for 87,500 miles.  On HA, all Tix are sold one-way, so you can use cash and miles together.

Of course, holidays are more miles and you do need to make your Resv. early.  

When we reserve at 331 days out, we are always able to get FF seats, even for high season - like the 4th of July week.  Since you have to reserve your timeshare at 365 days out, making an airline Resv. at 331 days out, is no problem.


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 11, 2010)

I hear that Alaska Air is running deals to HI as well


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## RoshiGuy (Nov 11, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> On Hawaiian Air, flights start at 35,000 miles (RT from Seattle to Maui.)  So you can get 2.5 RT tix for 87,500 miles.



Since OP mentioned being able to get RT tickets from Seattle for approx. $500, the 2.5 tickets are worth $1250 which is less than the $1400 available from the cashback card.

In my experience redemption for coach tickets do not yield a much better return than 2%, in which case might as well get an effortless 2% on the cash back card. I find redemption at Starwood hotels at peak times (my travel pattern) to yield 4%+ so that's where I try and use my SPG points.


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## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2010)

I saw that he mentioned $500, but at some times, using the FF miles is a better deal, because you can't get high season tickets for $500.

For instance - we always go to Hawaii the 4th of July and RT tickets for 4th of July week are $948, but you can buy tix using FF miles for 35,000 miles right now.  

So it depends on when you go.

We book 4 Star hotels through Priceline for $75 - $125 per night, so we don't use Starpoints for hotels.


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## babamike (Nov 11, 2010)

Fredm said:


> How is the legal adviser doing with resolving the Hawaii escrow?



Still waiting :zzz:  

BTW if i dont use a HI escrow who gets fine of 5K buyer or the closing company?? So the only problem would be if i sell down the road TAX dept wont agree with my original purchase price since it wasnt held in HI ? Which price will they use then ZERO ?

And thanks everyone for the points/miles analysis so my original conclusion stands take the cash and look for best deal of Airfair. By the sounds of it "gold-elite" isn't worth much in north america either. So all the roads endup at the same point, depends on which one you choose.


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## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2010)

Re-read Fred's post above (#32).  If this seller gets caught, your purchase might get "stuck" in escrow.  In that case, they would have both the deed and your money, and you would have nothing, because the deed can't be transferred to you, if Hawaii won't record it.  



> Some mainland closing agents are (for now) simply ignoring the Hawaii law. As Hawaii regulators get up to speed on their audit activities of these transactions, the dung will hit the fan. The violating closing agents will be fined the $5,000, per transaction.  *You do not want to have an open escrow with such a closing agent if/when that happens.*



Recently a very large popular seller went belly up, and everyone lost both their purchases and their $$$ that was in escrow with the company, because escrow was in-house.


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## RoshiGuy (Nov 11, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> IWe book 4 Star hotels through Priceline for $75 - $125 per night, so we don't use Starpoints for hotels.



I must start using Priceline - any tips/links you can provide will be great!


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## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2010)

I wrote a walk-through for San Francisco a couple years ago, I will send it to you.


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## babamike (Nov 11, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Re-read Fred's post above (#32).  If this seller gets caught, your purchase might get "stuck" in escrow.  In that case, they would have both the deed and your money, and you would have nothing, because the deed can't be transferred to you, if Hawaii won't record it.
> 
> 
> 
> Recently a very large popular seller went belly up, and everyone lost both their purchases and their $$$ that was in escrow with the company, because escrow was in-house.



i see. I lose my money if something happens during the transfer process. Its a big issue for sure. I see some sellers have started to use HI escrow for their closings. 
I hate the waiting game, how long do they need before saying "OK lets get a HI company" come on.....


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## Ken555 (Nov 11, 2010)

The best use of SPG points to get to Hawaii, in my opinion, is transferring them to US Air during the 50% summer promotion and then using those miles to fly on United. I've done this repeatedly since last year... it works out that transferring 60k SPGs (since you estimate 70k a year) to US Air during the promotion will net you 112.5k US Air miles (60 SPGs + 15 SPGs (you get 25 for every 20 you transfer) + 50% US Air summer promotion). At 40k per United seat you have almost enough for three seats. Even at just $500 value per seat, that's just under 2.5% return on your SPG points (given the extra 7500 United miles you'll need for the third seat).


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## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2010)

Great tip - what's the actual process to book the FF tix?  Can you do it online, do you call, and how difficult is the process?


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 11, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Great tip - what's the actual process to book the FF tix?  Can you do it online, do you call, and how difficult is the process?



You can book StarAlliance flights on-line on the UA site (Mileage Plus) very easily (of course there are issues with availability - so the sooner the better when the flight is populated in the database (8-9 months ahead iirc) - there is a search feature that allows you to include StarAlliance flights - so... I assume the same is true for USAir.


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## babamike (Nov 11, 2010)

UPDATE: Just spoke to the owner of the company I believe both selling and closing companies are owned by the same owner. He has forwarded closing information to a Hawaiian Escrow company. He thanked me for bringing it up to his knowledge and said going forward they will adjust their business according to the new law. Everyone I dealt with so far seemed very professional and accommodating.

BIG THANK YOU TO: Yumdrey DeniseM Fredm & YYJMSP for raising this issue and feeding me the right info. I'm so glad I joined Tug before the purchase otherwise I would have completed the sale and faced who knows what outcome.


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## DeniseM (Nov 11, 2010)

That is great news! - Now just insist on sending the money directly to the escrow company to make sure it gets done.


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## YYJMSP (Nov 11, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> 70,000 Starpoints = 87,500 airline miles on most airlines.
> 
> You could use those miles to buy tickets for your trips to Hawaii.
> 
> I am guessing that from your location, airfare for 2 is more than $1,400?



Transfer to Aeroplan would give you 85,000 points.  That's enough for two ClassicFlight economy tickets to Hawaii (at 40,000 each) -- you're still on the hook for about $150ea in taxes and fees.

Tickets are reasonably easy to get if you book 11 months in advance.  Easier to/from HNL (more flights per week), but a bit harder to OGG (I think it's only a single Sat flight)

You would get more selection off a Star Alliance ticket (same point requirements), but you'll get routed via LAX or SFO.

I'd hold out for the WestJet $1-for-the-return-segment sale that seems to happen pretty much every year now -- tickets would end up running around $400ea, and WestJet gets in to Hawaii a few hours earlier in the day than AC does.


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## pacman (Nov 12, 2010)

babamike said:


> Thats a very good comparison. Looks like it works out to be the same, if I fly from Seattle its usually around $500 a ticket. Flying from Vancouver Canada is around $700, TBH I've never done much of research about airmiles I always thought their system was way to complicated where flying to Maui uses 50K miles versus 30K during sale/slow period. To me miles are miles, maui is always at the same distance. May be I'm confusing with point system.
> That was the reason I stuck with cashback for all these years, I didnt want to deal with all those crazy booking restrictions.



babamike

have you ever considered an Alaska Airlines airmiles Mastercard?  It does cost $75/year, but you get a "companion" ticket EVERY year for $99.  My wife and I just flew direct SEA/OGG (Maui) for about $600 for the both of us. You can't beat that! We are Canadians, like you, and don't mind the drive to Seattle and back to save $500+. The other nice think about Alaska is that they fly direct to Honolulu, Maui, Big Island, and Kauai, so no connections!

pacman


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## babamike (Nov 12, 2010)

pacman said:


> babamike
> 
> have you ever considered an Alaska Airlines airmiles Mastercard?  It does cost $75/year, but you get a "companion" ticket EVERY year for $99.  My wife and I just flew direct SEA/OGG (Maui) for about $600 for the both of us. You can't beat that! We are Canadians, like you, and don't mind the drive to Seattle and back to save $500+. The other nice think about Alaska is that they fly direct to Honolulu, Maui, Big Island, and Kauai, so no connections!
> 
> pacman



That seems very interesting, is there a limit on how much you have to spend every year to qualify for companion ticket? I spend $169+$50 for my credit card annual fee right now.


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## pacman (Nov 12, 2010)

babamike said:


> That seems very interesting, is there a limit on how much you have to spend every year to qualify for companion ticket? I spend $169+$50 for my credit card annual fee right now.



You don't have to spend anything to qualify! As long as you pay the $75 annual fee, you get the companion ticket.  Of course, in addition, if you do use the card, you accumlate points, just like any other travel card.  My wife & I flew to NY this Spring, all on points earned by using the card (1 point/$ spent). 

pacman


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## Ken555 (Nov 12, 2010)

DavidnRobin said:


> You can book StarAlliance flights on-line on the UA site (Mileage Plus) very easily (of course there are issues with availability - so the sooner the better when the flight is populated in the database (8-9 months ahead iirc) - there is a search feature that allows you to include StarAlliance flights - so... I assume the same is true for USAir.



Unfortunately, US Air isn't as advanced as UAL in this regard. You can book US Air flights on their site, but a partner award requires a call (same with Delta and other airlines, so this really isn't that odd, though I'd like it all online).


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## Ken555 (Nov 12, 2010)

DeniseM said:


> Great tip - what's the actual process to book the FF tix?  Can you do it online, do you call, and how difficult is the process?



Call US Air to book a partner award. It's taken some time in the past, and not just a few mistakes on their part, to get the job done, but in the end I've gotten what I needed. I figure a bit of effort isn't that unreasonable given that each seat costs me 22.5k SPG points.

Once I book the flight on United in this manner, I've always upgraded to Economy Plus for ~$50 each way (more room is always nice on those flights) - this upgrade can be done on the United site once you add the flight to your account.


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## lorenmd (Nov 12, 2010)

hey canadians.  alaska is flying out of bellingham to hawaii


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## babamike (Nov 12, 2010)

lorenmd said:


> hey canadians.  alaska is flying out of bellingham to hawaii



Now Im getting that alaska Air credit card for sure. But I wonder if I need to provide a US address hmm .... ?


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## YYJMSP (Nov 12, 2010)

babamike said:


> Now Im getting that alaska Air credit card for sure. But I wonder if I need to provide a US address hmm .... ?



I would assume it's only available for Americans -- you'd probably have to provide proof of residency, etc


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## pacman (Nov 12, 2010)

babamike said:


> Now Im getting that alaska Air credit card for sure. But I wonder if I need to provide a US address hmm .... ?



They have a specific card, just for us Canucks. It is a MBNA MC. Between my wife and I, we have 4 cards - so get 4 companion flights every year.
The return flight out of Bellingham is a red-eye, so that really turns me off right there - and they only fly to Honolulu, and the prices are no better - sometimes more, than out of Seattle.

pacman


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## YYJMSP (Nov 12, 2010)

pacman said:


> They have a specific card, just for us Canucks. It is a MBNA MC. Between my wife and I, we have 4 cards - so get 4 companion flights every year.
> The return flight out of Bellingham is a red-eye, so that really turns me off right there - and they only fly to Honolulu, and the prices are no better - sometimes more, than out of Seattle.
> 
> pacman



Well, what do you know -- here it is at MBNA Canada:

Alaska Airlines Platinum Plus® 
Get 25,000 Bonus Miles††
Earn 1 mile for every $1 in qualifying net retail purchases‡
Get a $99 round-trip Companion Ticket‡
No limit to the number of miles you can earn‡
$75 annual fee

https://www.applyonlinenow.com/CACCapp/Ctl/entry?sc=CJWP&lc=en_CA


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## janna1 (Nov 12, 2010)

RoshiGuy said:


> Since OP mentioned being able to get RT tickets from Seattle for approx. $500, the 2.5 tickets are worth $1250 which is less than the $1400 available from the cashback card.
> 
> In my experience redemption for coach tickets do not yield a much better return than 2%, in which case might as well get an effortless 2% on the cash back card. I find redemption at Starwood hotels at peak times (my travel pattern) to yield 4%+ so that's where I try and use my SPG points.



May I ask what cash back card you used that can get 2% or more on every purchase on the card? As I know, that most of the cash back cards have a lot of limitation there. Although sometimes they have 3% on Gas, goceries...etc. But when you average all the purchases, it is hard to get an average of 2%.


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## babamike (Nov 12, 2010)

Wow doesnt seem that bad at all.

BTW off topic: Im thinking about picking up 20K worldmark ownership. I thought about SDO and trading but too much to deal with, also there is a chance it will not trade as well later on.
What are your thoughts on Worldmark? Just for quick drive in small vacations.
I will use my WKORV for long (nicer) vacations.

Mike


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## babamike (Nov 12, 2010)

janna1 said:


> May I ask what cash back card you used that can get 2% or more on every purchase on the card? As I know, that most of the cash back cards have a lot of limitation there. Although sometimes they have 3% on Gas, goceries...etc. But when you average all the purchases, it is hard to get an average of 2%.



Its a canadian credit card Visa Desjardins they give 1 percent cash back and another 1-2% in bonus dollars which are just like CASH dollar to dollar no points to dollar formula. I use those bonus dollars to pay for flights and hotels. Simply find the best deal possible and pay using ur card and later after the charges are posted pay using ur bonus dollars. Also you can just use those bonus dollars for ur financial products like RRSP etc.
Here is a link where i always compare canadian credit cards:

http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/publications/CreditCardsYou/pdfs/Platinum-Regular-Rate-eng.pdf

I got this card 4-5 years ago, still seems like one of the best ones out there.


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## RoshiGuy (Nov 12, 2010)

janna1 said:


> May I ask what cash back card you used that can get 2% or more on every purchase on the card? As I know, that most of the cash back cards have a lot of limitation there. Although sometimes they have 3% on Gas, goceries...etc. But when you average all the purchases, it is hard to get an average of 2%.



I use the Schwab card which is closed for new applicants. My relatives use a Capitol One card which (as I recall) also gives 2% on everything, no restrictions.

Flyertalk.com is a good place to get the latest on credit card, hotel and airline mile deals.


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## janna1 (Nov 12, 2010)

RoshiGuy and Mike,

Thanks for the reply on the cash back card.

Janna


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## janna1 (Nov 12, 2010)

babamike said:


> Wow doesnt seem that bad at all.
> 
> BTW off topic: Im thinking about picking up 20K worldmark ownership. I thought about SDO and trading but too much to deal with, also there is a chance it will not trade as well later on.
> What are your thoughts on Worldmark? Just for quick drive in small vacations.
> ...



Worldmark is one of the most flexiable point system. I love my membership. Although the resorts are not as good as starwood or marriotts. It is great for some getaways as it has many resorts in the Northwest. You don't need a 20K ownership. You can start from a small one first. Worldmark allows to "rent" points from other owner. You can get more when you need it. check out a worldmark owner community: http://www.wmowners.com/forum/

I was also looking at the WKORV, but I didn't find the deal as good as yours.


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## mstoyanov (Nov 12, 2010)

Here are my 2 cents. I have WorldMark and it is great timeshare but SDO/SBP serve different purposes. WorldMark is a GREAT exchanger in both II and RCI but can not overcome Starwood/Marriott priorities so if you regularly exchange into Starwood/Marriott resorts you need such traders too. That is why I have both. WorldMark MF increases are capped to 5% in its governing documents and there are a lot of resorts in the western part of USA but resorts are a step down in quality compared to Starwood/Marriott. On the other hands you can rent credit to/from others so you don't need large account. I was skeptical before getting one since I live on the east coast but after having it for about a year I now understand what people are raving about. If I have to chose only one of all my timeshares (and I have quite a bit) I will chose WorldMark hands down. I haven't stayed in WorldMark resort so far (toured several) but I plan one day to visit WorldMark Yellowstone. 



babamike said:


> Wow doesnt seem that bad at all.
> 
> BTW off topic: Im thinking about picking up 20K worldmark ownership. I thought about SDO and trading but too much to deal with, also there is a chance it will not trade as well later on.
> What are your thoughts on Worldmark? Just for quick drive in small vacations.
> ...


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## babamike (Nov 17, 2010)

UPDATE: Still waiting for the seller to find an Escrow company in HI, they did email me today and said they will finalize by tomorrow.


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## babamike (Nov 18, 2010)

Got a call from the seller they will be using "first american" in HI for the escrow & closing. No extra charge. Just waiting for the paperwork now.
Again a big thanks to all of you.

I also purchased a 22K WM ownership, I posted the details in Wyndham section I paid $5200 + 2010MF + closings, looks like a good price. Thats it no more timeshares for now


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## babamike (Nov 22, 2010)

UPDATE: Still waiting for Escrow company. But one of their other auction ended without a bid at 8999 last night.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270663019548&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I emailed the owner and said "If i had waited I would've saved a lot of money buying this auction at 8999."

He called me back and said NO PROBLEM. He will switch my contract to this auction and sell to me at 8999. WOW hes really a nice guy.

Looks to me its the same timeshare 2BR LO Ocean View but still wanted to get you guys to look at the listing before changing my paperwork.

Thanks
Mike

BTW waiting for the escrow worked in my favor i think


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## Fredm (Nov 23, 2010)

That's great!  

Of course, the seller has nothing to lose, and something to gain by responding as they did. It is smart business.
If your 8999 purchase does not pass ROFR, the seller still gets paid the 8999. Meanwhile, you are presumably still a buyer. Net, net, it is a win for you if it passes ROFR, and the seller still has a sale. If it doesn't, the seller has 2 sales.

Because you have not yet deposited funds with escrow, you could have walked, and the seller would have zero. Not that you would have walked, but why risk the response when there was a possible upside to being accommodating, and a downside to not.
As I said, smart business.

Waiting for a legit escrow has indeed worked in your favor. And, potentially in the seller's favor as well.


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## babamike (Nov 23, 2010)

Yes and its all linked to Tug...Found out about HI Escrow Law which is what delayed the process in the first place, now saved almost 1500 more....life is good at TUG  
Now that ROFR is another story :annoyed:


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## DavidnRobin (Nov 23, 2010)

Savings due to TUG = $1500
TUG membership = $15


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## babamike (Dec 30, 2010)

UPDATE: Got a call from closing company they told me Startwood has decided not to exercise ROFR. So it looks like it passed ROFR at 8999.
I have only given deposit of 500 so far, the closing will be done by First American in HI.
Long process but im glad its getting somewhere.

Now i'm worried i wont be able to book July week in 2011 may be its fully booked. They couldnt book until it passed ROFR.


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## LisaRex (Dec 30, 2010)

babamike said:


> Now i'm worried i wont be able to book July week in 2011 may be its fully booked. They couldnt book until it passed ROFR.



You've passed the SO exchange window, so you should come up with a plan B just in case.  Honestly, though, I've never called and had them say that the resort was sold out at WKORV, even when I called a few months out for platinum season availability.  However, note that since you'll be using SOs to trade in should July be available, you'll not be guaranteed your ocean view view. I'd request the north side so I wouldn't end up in the dreaded Building 2.

If you really want OV guarantee, you might try in the fall.  It's beautiful in Maui in the fall and airfare is generally much cheaper than the summer.


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## babamike (Dec 30, 2010)

LisaRex said:


> You've passed the SO exchange window, so you should come up with a plan B just in case.  Honestly, though, I've never called and had them say that the resort was sold out at WKORV, even when I called a few months out for platinum season availability.  However, note that since you'll be using SOs to trade in should July be available, you'll not be guaranteed your ocean view view. I'd request the north side so I wouldn't end up in the dreaded Building 2.
> 
> If you really want OV guarantee, you might try in the fall.  It's beautiful in Maui in the fall and airfare is generally much cheaper than the summer.



Thanks for the advise, I'm booking through middle man so its not an easy process. I've requested July 2nd and 3rd week at south or north 2BR LO.
We'll see what happens, otherwise I'll work out a Plan B.


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## babamike (Jan 3, 2011)

sellingtimeguys said:


> Mike, Happy New Year! Just wanted to let you and the others on this thread know we appreciate your diligence and patience throughout the process. As the owner of Sellingtimeguys I look forward to a smooth transfer and many happy vacations for you and your family. Tony Comas/Sellingtimeguys



Wow Happy new years to you too Tony and welcome to the Tug. Now you know where I get my info from lol.

BTW anyone else who is interested in "sellingtimeguys" auctions on ebay I want to assure you these guys handle their business in a very professional manner. I highly recommend them, great group of people.

Mike


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