# Are Fairfield/Wyndham Points in Freefall?



## Leturno (Dec 11, 2007)

Are Fairfield/Wyndham Points in Freefall or is just this time of year for bargains? I have not followed the points pricing for a while; back when I bought my points anything around 2 cents a point was a good price. Now it seams to be 1 cent a point or less.

What is the going rate for Fairfield/Wyndham points in resale?

Scott


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## Lisa P (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm seeing a lot of ~1.5 cents per point final selling prices on eBay's better packages.  Lower than that and the maint fees are very high for the number of points in a package.  Resale brokers' listings and owner ads still seem to hover around 2-2.5 cents per point.  This doesn't seem like a freefall to me, or even a drop at all since summertime.


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## Ron G. (Dec 11, 2007)

*A "better package"?*



Lisa P said:


> I'm seeing a lot of ~1.5 cents per point final selling prices on eBay's better packages.



Lisa,

I almost bid tonight on Governor's Green.  154k points went for $570....less than a half cent per point.  I'm new at this and just wasn't confident that this was a good place for me to start with TS.

Having said that, I'm curious what you meant by "eBay's better packages".  This one had a MF of $781, or $5.08 per thousand points, which seems to be middle of the pack.  GG gets very good reviews.

If this isn't a "better package", what is?

Thx.

Ron


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## ausman (Dec 11, 2007)

I would put the ebay range at roughly $10-$12/K for desirable packages. Those being with lower or low MF.

The others range from roughly $5-$10/K.

The $20/K figure seems to be about 2 yrs by it's use date.


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## timeos2 (Dec 11, 2007)

*Those are high fees in my book*



Ron G. said:


> Lisa,
> 
> I almost bid tonight on Governor's Green.  154k points went for $570....less than a half cent per point.  I'm new at this and just wasn't confident that this was a good place for me to start with TS.
> 
> ...



The resort is good, the upfront cost VERY low but those are high annual fees (which go on until you sell & will only go up).  The true cost of any timeshare or system is the annual fees not the purchase price. Thats why minimizing the purchase cost and getting the best value in annual fees are such important factors.


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## ausman (Dec 11, 2007)

Ron,

This is a better package for the following reasons:

1) Affiliated with II. For those looking for a II property to balance off their RCI holdings, then this is attractive. Needs to be held in a different ownership name though.

2) Don't be looking at MF exclusively to provide valuation. I think a total cost of ownership of $5-6/K is what experienced buyers are looking for.

So that one had $5.08 MF's/K plus purchase price $570 plus probable closing etc $500, amortise $1070 over 10 yrs (or your time frame) and that would add 70 cents to the MF for a total of $5.78/K. 

Within the $5-6/K range. Lower is better.

There may have been other factors, such as paying for back MF, start expiration of points etc that influenced the price. 

But I would say that deal was well worth screening and sniping on if deemed attractive.

Six months down the track the answer well may change.


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## PerryM (Dec 12, 2007)

I compare what FairField/Wyndham is doing, resale wise, to WM might do.

Anyone know what Wyndham sells new points for on the average?

Thanks in advance,


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## rickandcindy23 (Dec 12, 2007)

Perry, are you asking for the developer's price for FF points?  We attended a presentation back in April, a mistake we will never do again, and they wanted $18,100 for 308,000, every-other-year.  I can buy the same thing for about $2,200, give or take a few bucks.


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## PerryM (Dec 12, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Perry, are you asking for the developer's price for FF points?  We attended a presentation back in April, a mistake we will never do again, and they wanted $18,100 for 308,000, every-other-year.  I can buy the same thing for about $2,200, give or take a few bucks.




Yes, the price the smiling FF/Wyndham salesrep wants you to pay. Last time I took a FF/Wyndham sales tour it was near 14¢ a FF/Wyndam Point.


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## timeos2 (Dec 12, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Yes, the price the smiling FF/Wyndham salesrep wants you to pay. Last time I took a FF/Wyndham sales tour it was near 14¢ a FF/Wyndam Point.



They seem to range from $.12 - $.15 as the retail price at the sales pitches.


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## PerryM (Dec 12, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> They seem to range from $.12 - $.15 as the retail price at the sales pitches.



Is FF/Wyndham (I wish it was FairField by Wyndham, but I guess that would conflict with FairField by Marriott) flexible in pricing?  Can folks haggle and easily get 10%+ off?


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## timeos2 (Dec 12, 2007)

PerryM said:


> Is FF/Wyndham (I wish it was FairField by Wyndham, but I guess that would conflict with FairField by Marriott) flexible in pricing?  Can folks haggle and easily get 10%+ off?



Most likely as they do come down some as they feel you're gettiing ready to walk (I never pushed them that far as I could never justify Wyndham FSP Points at any retail price).


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## bnoble (Dec 12, 2007)

I don't go to developer pitches (I'm not that interested), but from what I've read, they will negotiate.


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## JoeMid (Dec 12, 2007)

Leturno said:


> Are Fairfield/Wyndham Points in Freefall or is just this time of year for bargains? I have not followed the points pricing for a while; back when I bought my points anything around 2 cents a point was a good price. Now it seams to be 1 cent a point or less.
> 
> What is the going rate for Fairfield/Wyndham points in resale?
> 
> Scott


No, they've about hit bottom and are about half what they were a couple years ago.


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## Aussiedog (Dec 12, 2007)

I have been watching the FF points packages pretty closely and bought a couple over the past couple of months.  
For what it's worth, the going point rate seems to be holding at just under a penny a point (no MFs factored in here, just up front point price) IF the package is large enough to buy a decent unit and week, but the smaller point packages are now going for much less - down to .5 cents per point or less. (see tonight's auctions for the latest proof)
Buyers also seem to be paying more attention to the points required for THAT resort, and not paying as much for even a large package if that package is not large enough for that property.  
So as an example, if a decent size unit and week at some resorts takes only 154,000 points but it takes 189,000 points to buy a comparable week at the advertised resort, a 154,000 package at the 189,000 resort will often sell for much less than a penny a point.  My guess is that with all the packages on the market people have less tolerance for having to cobble together the points that they want by buying several packages with multiple closings and maybe even different anniversary dates.
And then there are some FF point packages that they can hardly give away.

All very interesting.

Ann


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## Aussiedog (Dec 15, 2007)

*Yikes!*

105,000 FF points at Cypress Palms, EOY, just went for $1.25 on EBay.  

Ann


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## Leturno (Dec 16, 2007)

*The pricing still seams like a bargain...*

Free fall or not, they are lower now then a couple years ago. It seams that the move to rebrand to Wyndham has only confused or devaluated the existing owners value. Still I wish I had some extra cash to capture some of these bargains.

Reviewing the responses the thought of the community appears to be split between the price being about 1.5 cents a point and not free falling versus those who are traking sales below a penny.

I remember when I made my first purchase I spreadsheeted recent sales calculating total purchase costs including closing costs and 5 years worth of maintenance fees so I didn't bid on the wrong deed. 

Merry Christmas
Scott


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## #1 Cowboys Fan (Dec 16, 2007)

Aussiedog said:


> 105,000 FF points at Cypress Palms, EOY, just went for $1.25 on EBay.
> 
> Ann



1) Can someone explain why this one went for so LOW??

2) Another FF ended on Ebay last night; 168,000 Biennual  at Ocean Walk went for $500.  Seems like a pretty good deal---but I suspect the fees are too high(?)

(I do not presently own points, but am starting the process of looking into it. )

Pat

Pat


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## Don40 (Dec 16, 2007)

IMHO the economy is also affecting people, as primary residence values continue to plunge and all of those home equity lines, and mortgage payments catch-up.  I can see TS values going lower.  Foreclosures might become a problem for some resorts as bad debt expenses will start to climb. TS are a luxury not a necessity.  Give this thing about 6 more months and you can purchase all the points you want for $.05 a K.  One thing I learned in school is "Cash is King."


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## TUGBrian (Dec 18, 2007)

Perhaps of relation to this thread...I have noticed that the wyndham stock price is breaking below its 52 week and historical low. 

Stock chart...

http://quote.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=WYN&t=1y


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## PerryM (Dec 18, 2007)

TUG Improvements! said:


> Perhaps of relation to this thread...I have noticed that the wyndham stock price is breaking below its 52 week and historical low.
> 
> Stock chart...
> 
> http://quote.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=WYN&t=1y



My system would have shorted WYN on Dec 11 at $29.80.  Price right now is $24.70 and a tidy profit of 17% thanks Wyndham.  I'd place a trailing stop 10 cents above the previous day's high (unless an inside day).

Shorting stocks has got to be one of those great inventions on par with inventing fire.


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## carlbarry (Dec 23, 2007)

Last week I made my first timeshare purchase. and did it on ebay.  For Star Island, Orlando, I paid $100 for 49,000 points, and my maintenance is $300.  I've been looking at prices for about 2 years now (ever since getting suckered into a timeshare presentation in Bonnet Creek, and fortunately-though knowing NOTHING about timeshare--surmising that points would be cheaper at resale) and this seemed pretty good to me.


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 24, 2007)

Unfortunately, Orlando isn't a desirable location to own a TS . . . and the points necessary for decent weeks (even there) will price you out of the reasonable value range in terms of MF's.

Many would say own somewhere else and use RCI for last minute vacations at around $200/week if you want to go to Orlando any time except the primo holidays.


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## jgtragesser (Dec 24, 2007)

*Last week I made my first timeshare purchase....*

IMHO...I think that you did well  ... the price per points is EXCELLENT.... the annual maintenance fee OK.... you have a 'free' RCI account for non-Wynfield exchanges, last call, extra vacations and cruises... you have lttle exposure to onerous, on-going maintenance fees... you have very few assets tied-up by the initial purchase cost....  and if you need more points, you can rent them from other owners at a modest price when and as needed (please send me a PM or email) .... Joe Tragesser... jgtragesser...

************************************


carlbarry said:


> Last week I made my first timeshare purchase. and did it on ebay.  For Star Island, Orlando, I paid $100 for 49,000 points, and my maintenance is $300.  I've been looking at prices for about 2 years now (ever since getting suckered into a timeshare presentation in Bonnet Creek, and fortunately-though knowing NOTHING about timeshare--surmising that points would be cheaper at resale) and this seemed pretty good to me.


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## acesneights (Dec 24, 2007)

Excellent price if you ignore closing costs. I suspect the total price is in excess of $500 or over a penny a point.

The MF is over $6/K which is not great.

49K isn't enough to get more than a few days a year.

You could get an RCI account for $89 a year so $300 for a free RCI account isn't that great.

Stan


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## carlbarry (Dec 24, 2007)

acesneights said:


> Excellent price if you ignore closing costs. I suspect the total price is in excess of $500 or over a penny a point.
> 
> The MF is over $6/K which is not great.
> 
> ...



My closing costs were $348.00 total, timeshare was $99.95, for total cost of $447.95.  The deed has been filed, and I've been sent a photocopy.  I realize the points are only good for a few days a year, but all I want is a Sun-Thurs stay once a year.  I also know if I bought more points, the cost per point would be lower.  However, I think this amount will suffice for now, and I don't have to pay more in maintenance.


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## Timeshare Von (Dec 25, 2007)

Carlbarry,

One of the beauties of the FF/Wyndham points, however, is that now as an owner you do have the oppty to rent additional points from other owners, adding to your existing package to perhaps have enough to do more w/o the annual ownership obligation when you only want/need 49k.

I acquired a 77k point package earlier this year, one that many said wasn't enough to really be in the game.  I didn't need the points or added vacation time, but my sister made it too easy to not say no . . . she simply gave me the contract if I paid the closing costs.  So I am in the points side of Wyndham now for an investment of around $150 total.  My MF's are a bit on the high end, but with the price of the RCI account subtracted, I think I figured I'm paying around $435 for the MFs in 2008.  Not really that bad.

I was successful in renting out my points using the new FF/Wyndham ownership group (http://forums.fairfieldowners.org/) for $6.25/1000 or $481 so I came out ahead for 2008 by a few bucks.

Lastly, I had a small windfall in RCI ownership fees as I was paid up through 2012, which I got back once the Wyndham RCI account was fixed to my already existing 20 year old RCI fixed weeks account.  I got back a refund check from them (RCI) for over $300, making my real net to get into the FF/Wyndham points game a PLUS $150!  (I can do the math in this manner as I personally didn't pay for the RCI memberships beyond the year 2007.  The additional five years through 2012 were acquired as part of some of the resale fixed weeks purchases I had done over the past few years.)

Anyway, long story short . . . at face value sometimes the financial accounting doesn't look to be in your favor . . . but if it works for you, that is all that really matters.  Enjoy your ownership and some great vacation escapes!


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## Leturno (Jan 14, 2008)

*Whats the Verdict?*

We are just through the year end sell off of timeshare, those  Fairfield/Wyndham points looked to me like they were averaging nearer to 1cent a point then the traditional 2cents per point, on eBay. Loosing half their value in a little over a year sounds like free fall to me??

It could be the economy as some suggested, or it could be the changes in VIP or confusion with they Wyndham name change but I say these points are far cheaper now then they were a year ago.

Scott


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## carlbarry (Jan 14, 2008)

I've been tracking the prices on Ebay for awhile, and here are some examples (dates are when auction ended):
6-30-06 Bonnet Creek 154,000 points  $3,252
7-9-06   Bonnet Creek 168,000 points    4,160
8-16-06 Star Island     200,000 points    2,650
8-31-06 Star Island     233,000 points    3,400 (Maint. $966)
                                161,000 points    3,400 (Maint. $686)
10-17-06 Star Island    128,000 points    2,504.50
10-18-06 Star Island    77,000 points         565. 55
Now jump to 2007:
3-1-07  Star Island      154,000 points $625 (Maint. $386.20)
4-12-07 Star Island      189,000 points $1,795
4-20-07 Star Island        53,000 points  $161.50 (Maint. $297)
However, Bonnet Creek seems to have held better:
1-4-07                        128,000 $2,375
3-19-007                      462,000 $11,997
10-12-07                      118,000  $2,658
And my favorite:
1.6 Million(!) at Bonnet Creek- highest bid was $13,655, reserve NOT met!
              Maintenance is $6823 plus $1,100 taxes


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## Leturno (Nov 22, 2008)

*Where are we at on this now?*

A while back I wrote that I felt the FSP point market was in Freefall and several argued the point. There are now new forces in the marketplace ontop of the old ones affecting the price. When I first started with Fairfield getting points for less the 2.5cents a point was a good value. What is a good value now? 
Where are we at on pricing?
 Scott


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## BocaBum99 (Nov 22, 2008)

Wyndham packages with Maintenance fees and FSP fees LESS than $4/1000 still have some value.  Every other package that has fees higher than that aren't worth the cost of the closing.


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## Jya-Ning (Nov 22, 2008)

Leturno said:


> A while back I wrote that I felt the FSP point market was in Freefall and several argued the point. There are now new forces in the marketplace ontop of the old ones affecting the price. When I first started with Fairfield getting points for less the 2.5cents a point was a good value. What is a good value now?
> Where are we at on pricing?
> Scott



At this moment, house market in free fall.  Stock market in free fall.  You will have to decide what is a good value for you.  IMHO, as long as you can use the purchase yourself,. feel comfortable with the MF, and know that the time when you travel, you will not be able to see a lot of rental that cost less than your MF, and has the cash that you don't care to spend for the purchase amount, that is a good value.

I will guess you will end up see some does not get bid at all even when they start at $1.

I don't know what as a business you will see.  

Jya-Ning


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## Steve (Nov 22, 2008)

The market for Wyndham points has completely collapsed.  I had some mild interest in an eBay auction of 189,000 points at Wyndham Nashville.  I ended up not bidding, but it went for $66.  There are numerous other examples all over eBay...but that one really got my attention.  There is just no value left on the resale market for these properties.

Steve


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## Maryland_jim (Nov 22, 2008)

*If I had it do to over...*

I bought four deeds 105k+140k+182k+189k. I paid about $450 per deed for closing costs. If I had waited more patiently, I could have saved $450-$900 or even $1350 in closing costs by buying larger points package(s). The thought process should always be to define purchase price to be transaction cost plus purchase price.
The other thing I did was try to stay with properties that have current maintenance fees including taxes of less than $5 per k. That can be done. That being said, I had no bias for "home" properties. I am happy to get points and not so worried about ARP extra four (?) months. I may regret that later - don't know....
I hope this helps,
Jimbo


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## timeos2 (Nov 22, 2008)

*Sellers out of luck - buyers gold!*



Steve said:


> The market for Wyndham points has completely collapsed.  I had some mild interest in an eBay auction of 189,000 points at Wyndham Nashville.  I ended up not bidding, but it went for $66.  There are numerous other examples all over eBay...but that one really got my attention.  There is just no value left on the resale market for these properties.
> 
> Steve



Which makes a retail purchase at Wyndham prices an insane move while resale prices gets you into a great system for practically nothing. Not good for sellers but a great deal for buyers.  May be the best value in timeshare right now. If you pay so little to start it can't get any lower so your risk is virtually zero and  prices may go up if Wyndham ever sees the light of the need for resale.


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## carlbarry (Nov 22, 2008)

Watch on ebay. I have just seen my home resort, Star Island, sell with 3 bids, $10.50 (!) for 189,000 points.  I also saw a sale for Star Island--the non-Wyndham portion--sell a fix week for $1, with SELLER picking up ALL closing costs!  Now if I could only get into Disney Vacation Club for that price! LOL


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## GeNioS (Nov 22, 2008)

After investigating Wyndham (exhaustively), I did pick one up yesterday.  The interesting thing to me is that the 154k week I have been watching keeps going without bids at $99.

At Boca's suggestion, that renting points from other owners costs less than buying, thus making the timeshare "worthless," I waited until a smaller 84k came along.  Wanted just to get into the system.  Paid $10.50 and closing costs brought it to a total of $309.

I called Wyndham a few weeks ago and asked them what the smallest packages cost.  They, without specifics, told me I would be looking at around $12,000.  Wow.


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## Leturno (Nov 23, 2008)

*This is a great conversation*

This is a great extension to the earlier discussion. I like the $4 or $5 per 1000 points rule which sums it up quite nicely. 

When I first started shopping for timeshare I purchased FSP points on resale for several reasons and none of them were with the hopes that I would make money or even maintain the resale value. I did not expect it to drop to nearly $0. Part of it is certainly the economy but it is also Wyndham's policies and hostility to the resale market.

I wonder if there would be a way to get the attn of Wyndham Executives and convince them that establishing a Marriott style resale program would be a WIN WIN WIN for Wyndham, FSP and the Owners.

Oh well... Bigger things to worry about then trying to save a large corporation from screwing up even more.

Scott


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## ajdon (Nov 25, 2008)

*I still don't get it...*

Why doesn't Wyndham/Fairfield simple start buying these on Ebay and re-sell them at presentations?  Why haven't they started ROFR or is it that they need the M/Fs to stay above water.....

AJ


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 25, 2008)

Compared to what the salespeople at the resorts are selling, this is a small number of points going on eBay.  I think it isn't worth the hassle to buy up all the points.  I don't know if that move would be good or bad. 

I still think the points packages with $4.50 or less per 1,000 in MF's have some value.  Anything more than that, it's a waste to buy them.  

Some Wyndham owners are trying to rent their 2009 points to others for way over $5.00 per 1,000, hoping they will rent their points and make a profit.  I don't see why anyone would rent for over $5.00 per 1,000 from anyone, when the prices are so low on eBay.   

Renting from Wyndham, the price is now $8.00 per 1,000.  That's a joke, if you ask me.  No reason to pay them, so that is why the points are such a bargain right now.  That is also the reason owners feel they can rent for $5.00 and up.  I am bullish on those points right now, at the lowest prices I have ever seen on eBay.  Too bad I don't have any money!


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## moonlightgraham (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm at Bonnet Creek now and sat thru the "owner survey" yesterday and was offered points at 15 cents/per.  Fortunately, once the sales rep learned I had bought resale and had no interest in VIP perks the ordeal was over and I was off with my $100 in Disney dollars. But as PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute as I observed sales being completed right and left on the 2nd floor sales floor. Now I know why the built that new building, to handle the horde of sales people and their victims. On a better note, we're in the newest building with a 3br and its all in topnotch shape.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 25, 2008)

We were in a 3 bedroom in the newest building and just hated the bathtub.  Why do a whirlpool-type tub at all and have it bubbling all over the place.   It was not deep enough for the bubbling activity to remain in the tub.  What a terrible mistake that was!  I would rather be in the older buildings, with the older style of bathtubs.  

On a brighter note, we loved the 3 bedroom unit, which was much more spacious than the 2 bedroom, even the living room area is considerably larger.


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## Jya-Ning (Nov 25, 2008)

ajdon said:


> Why doesn't Wyndham/Fairfield simple start buying these on Ebay and re-sell them at presentations?  Why haven't they started ROFR or is it that they need the M/Fs to stay above water.....
> 
> AJ



You think they can sell you a 10 year old TS and ask you pay the same as thy sell you new Building in BC?

The last time I check, their construction cost is 25% of all the cost.  And from what I know, they still have problem to sell these recycled TS contracts without some deep discount.

The way it goes, unless they form a PCC, there is no way they try to do that.  ROFR is another story.  But even Marriott has stop it at this moment, and Marriott does not do that unless it just happen they are selling a new building around that resort, so can not expect Wyndham to start doing that now.  It does happen in PAHIO, except it does not ave ROFR, it just developer trying to steal the resale.

Jya-Ning


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## bnoble (Nov 25, 2008)

You know, it occurs to me that this might be the eventual role for Club Wyndham Access.  I'm sketchy on the details, but it's effectively a way they've rolled points deeds from individual, older resorts into a "club" where inventory backing those points is made available to other "club" members for something like RARP/ARP.  Naturally, you never need ARP at any of these places, but it can be spun as a selling point for older properties.

So, when sales has Ma and Pa Kettle, hemming and hawing about the 154K EOY package, they can offer to sell 77K EOY at the "new" resort, and 77K in Club Wyndham at a lower price point.

If this works, it provides a mechanism to buy and recycle resale points in a viable way.


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## moonlightgraham (Nov 29, 2008)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We were in a 3 bedroom in the newest building and just hated the bathtub.  Why do a whirlpool-type tub at all and have it bubbling all over the place.   It was not deep enough for the bubbling activity to remain in the tub.  What a terrible mistake that was!  I would rather be in the older buildings, with the older style of bathtubs.



Funny, our 5yr old and 16mo daughters loved it, and it fit their toddler-sized frames perfectly! However, being in the master bathroom it's probably not what the designers intended! I guess some things look better on the drawing board then in real life.


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## AwayWeGo (Nov 29, 2008)

*Hey, Somebody Stayed In This Timeshare Before I Got Here.*




Jya-Ning said:


> You think they can sell you a 10 year old TS and ask you pay the same as thy sell you new Building in BC?


Why not ? 

I mean, all timeshares are _used-used-used_ by the time anybody shows up & checks in. 

There is no such thing as a new timeshare. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Jya-Ning (Nov 29, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> Why not ?



1) They need to have the HOA refurbish all the units, so they can show case it.  They usually keep at least 1 or 2 units unused in the one they sell.

2) Besides, at 10 years level, the chance of you getting hit by SA will be high.  It will be disater if they tell the new buyer you will pay $5 per 1K MF plus $2 /k SA for 3 years.  Not that most new buyers will know what they are talking about, but it will be in the contract

3) the public offering will be totally diffrent, it will states that these are 10 years old, not that mot of the new buyer will look at it.

They probably have a very good chance of selling 30 years old TS, since the building material are much better, and the room space are much decent.

Jya-Ning


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## Don40 (Nov 29, 2008)

I think most will agree that the prices for all TS are down, some more than others but all are down.  ROFR holds prices if the developer interceeds and maintains a certain level, but add a financial crisis and the develpoer cannot afford to maintain the artificial price level.

WYN has decided not to have ROFR because they have so many properties and it would drive them into bankruptcy to maintain an artificial price level for resales.  Disney is the best example of holding value, but right now their prices are getting lower and once they build several more resorts resales prices will only get lower.

Prices are built on corporate greed and the uninformed consumer, but the internet has started to level the playing field for some consumers.  An oversupply of product drives the prices down "Simple".  

We hope the larger players "WYN" will survive by consolidating or a more efficient and nimble company will become the largest player.  WYN has a solid following but if maintenence fees start going up I bet resales prices will go into the negative.  For example $15 per K in maintenance fees and 90% of us owners will run for the hills, begging anyone to take our TS.


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## Jya-Ning (Nov 29, 2008)

Jya-Ning said:


> You think they can sell you a 10 year old TS and ask you pay the same as thy sell you new Building in BC?



Atually, I don't know if they can get it or not.  I just know that their sale force is asking way low more cheaper if it is from a resort that isno longer in sell.  That is used to be one cheap way to get in VIP.

If I have to guess, I will guess it probably have to convice th sale forec that they are selling the same stuff, not the one that owner just want to abandon it.  So thy could feel they are very different than those PCC companies. 

Jya-Ning


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## garmich (Nov 29, 2008)

rickandcindy23 said:


> We were in a 3 bedroom in the newest building and just hated the bathtub.  Why do a whirlpool-type tub at all and have it bubbling all over the place.   It was not deep enough for the bubbling activity to remain in the tub.  What a terrible mistake that was!  I would rather be in the older buildings, with the older style of bathtubs



That is exactly how I felt about the jacuzzi we had in our 2-BR in building #3.  We were extremely disappointed as we had expected to have a jacuzzi like the ones we saw on the sales tour.  The jacuzzi was two small to comfortably accommodate two average-sized adults.  We also stayed in a 2-BR in building #1.  The jacuzzis in that building are much larger (triangular shape) just like the ones we saw on the sales tour.  And they have adjustable waterjets like the outdoor hot tubs.  On our next trip, I will request a unit in building #1.

Gary


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