# Any news on Foxrun?



## PClapham (Jan 26, 2016)

Someone who owns there said there had been a vote already on what is to happen-any information here on the resort?

Thanks

Anita


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## pedro47 (Jan 26, 2016)

PClapham said:


> Someone who owns there said there had been a vote already on what is to happen-any information here on the resort?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Anita



What are you talking about?


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## FLDVCFamily (Jan 27, 2016)

pedro47 said:


> What are you talking about?



Pretty sure he's talking about the possibility that Foxrun will cease to be a timeshare in I think it's 2020. I'm quite concerned also as this is my best trader.


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## pedro47 (Jan 27, 2016)

FLDVCFamily said:


> Pretty sure he's talking about the possibility that Foxrun will cease to be a timeshare in I think it's 2020. I'm quite concerned also as this is my best trader.



What happens to the timeshare owners and their ownership?


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## TUGBrian (Jan 27, 2016)

sunset clauses will begin to impact a number of resorts in 2020 (to start)...info is here:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224998&page=3


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## FLDVCFamily (Jan 28, 2016)

pedro47 said:


> What happens to the timeshare owners and their ownership?



If I understand it correctly, everyone gets bought out and is left with no timeshare. Foxrun has consistently been my best trader. I'll be bummed if I have to figure out another trader to replace it.


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## RonB (Jan 28, 2016)

FLDVCFamily said:


> If I understand it correctly, everyone gets bought out and is left with no timeshare. Foxrun has consistently been my best trader. I'll be bummed if I have to figure out another trader to replace it.



In another thread here it has been stated that it no longer exists as a timeshare. There is no management company to manage the units. That means no maintenance, no one to pay bills, no activities or anything else. However you still own your week. If every owner can be found and agrees, the property can be sold and you get 1/50th the value of your unit after expenses ~ Ron


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## tschwa2 (Jan 28, 2016)

> Contact FoxRun
> 
> 180 Herman Wilson Road
> Lake Lure, NC 28746
> ...




Call and ask.  For some reason I thought the sunset clause at Foxrun was 2016.


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## jackio (Jan 28, 2016)

I bought my unit resale and was never advised of any such clause, and it is not in my deed.  Is this is writing anywhere? - Jacki


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## DebBrown (Jan 28, 2016)

I am a Foxrun owner.  I emailed someone on the board.  He said that the HOA board is aware and in discussion.  It is the board's opinion that the vast majority of owners will vote to continue the timeshare.  He said that it will up for renewal every 10 years thereafter.

Deb


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## pedro47 (Jan 28, 2016)

DebBrown said:


> I am a Foxrun owner.  I emailed someone on the board.  He said that the HOA board is aware and in discussion.  It is the board's opinion that the vast majority of owners will vote to continue the timeshare.  He said that it will up for renewal every 10 years thereafter.
> 
> Deb



When is the HOA going to notify owners and after notification how much time will timeshare owners have to make a final decision!  Also, will a majority of owners have to vote to approve or disapprove the HOA recommendations?


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## DebBrown (Jan 28, 2016)

There are more questions than answers right now.  I got the impression that there would be a vote at some point but it was not imminent.  I think the sunset date is still a few years off.

Deb


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2016)

Did you know Wyndham points owns a sizable number of weeks?  And the have no vote, as voted on by the HOA back in the 80's when they left Wyndham.  Lots of ownership from the greater Cincinnat, tri-state area

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## Ty1on (Jan 28, 2016)

raygo123 said:


> Did you know Wyndham points owns a sizable number of weeks?  And the have no vote, as voted on by the HOA back in the 80's when they left Wyndham.  Lots of ownership from the greater Cincinnat, tri-state area
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



Are you sure about that?  I thought Wyndham's Foxrun units were fixed week conversions?  In which case interval owners should still have a vote.....Even if the deeds were held in trust by Wyndham, I can't imagine a scenario where an HOA could legally exclude a class of owners from voting.


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2016)

That's that I was told when I owned it.  I believe it was a fellow named Ketchum, but that was ages ago.

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## TUGBrian (Jan 28, 2016)

this would not be listed in the deed, but instead in the Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&Rs)

while im sure original owners would have at one time gotten a copy of this, i doubt its provided to resale owners (but who knows).

the HOA should have this made available to any owner who requests it though, and it may be available online somewhere.


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## GrayFal (Jan 28, 2016)

TUGBrian said:


> this would not be listed in the deed, but instead in the Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&Rs)
> 
> while im sure original owners would have at one time gotten a copy of this, i doubt its provided to resale owners (but who knows).
> 
> the HOA should have this made available to any owner who requests it though, and it may be available online somewhere.



It is in my resale deed prepared by Jerry at Redden Realty back in 2004. 
The date is definitely in 2020. I posted it in the original thread linked here. 
Tug member Becky was on the board there. I do not know if she is still active on TUG

Edit, if you just have a Quit Claim deed it would not have the info.


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## TUGBrian (Jan 28, 2016)

ah ok...there we go...thank you for confirming!

least you have a 4 year head start to get something worked out!


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## Ty1on (Jan 28, 2016)

raygo123 said:


> That's that I was told when I owned it.  I believe it was a fellow named Ketchum, but that was ages ago.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



It may be that there is a separate association for Wyndham Owners and others, and then a master association that allows the two associations to get together on common areas.


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## GrayFal (Jan 28, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> It may be that there is a separate association for Wyndham Owners and others, and then a master association that allows the two associations to get together on common areas.



And Bluegreen owns units here as well!


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## Ty1on (Jan 28, 2016)

GrayFal said:


> And Bluegreen owns units here as well!



I should say two or more associations


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## raygo123 (Jan 28, 2016)

Well that's true, back then there were negotiations with  Wyndham HOA over use of the golf courses and rec center.  

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## BocaBoy (Jan 29, 2016)

TUGBrian said:


> this would not be listed in the deed, but instead in the Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&Rs)



We bought Marriott's Sabal Palms pre-construction in 1987 and owned it for 24 years before selling it.  They have a sunset period and it was clearly stated in the original deed.


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## theo (Jan 30, 2016)

jackio said:


> I bought my unit resale and was never advised of any such clause, and it is not in my deed.  Is this is writing anywhere? - Jacki



Timeshare termination language resides in the underlying CC&R or "Declaration" documents, prepared and filed (and officially recorded) when a property is first built. 
A properly prepared deed will *refer* to the specific recorded location (i.e., the book and pages in County records) of those original CC&R's, but no deed will actually repeat the entire contents of the underlying CC&R's (often 75 or more pages in total). 

I dare say that relatively few people at most timeshare facilities even know that any such termination language *exists** at all* in the first place, let alone later inform or "advise" other subsequent resale buyers. Even if known, there is no actual obligation to relay that information to subsequent buyers. After all, the information is *already* spelled out in great detail and is already a matter of public record in the underlying, officially recorded CC&R's referenced within any properly prepared deed.


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## jackio (Jan 30, 2016)

theo said:


> Timeshare termination language resides in the underlying CC&R or "Declaration" documents, prepared and filed (and officially recorded) when a property is first built.
> A properly prepared deed will *refer* to the specific recorded location (i.e., the book and pages in County records) of those original CC&R's, but no deed will actually repeat the entire contents of the underlying CC&R's (often 75 or more pages in total).
> 
> I dare say that relatively few people at most timeshare facilities even know that any such termination language *exists** at all* in the first place, let alone later inform or "advise" other subsequent resale buyers. Even if known, there is no actual obligation to relay that information to subsequent buyers. After all, the information is *already* spelled out in great detail and is already a matter of public record in the underlying, officially recorded CC&R's referenced within any properly prepared deed.



Thank you.


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## theo (Jan 30, 2016)

DebBrown said:


> There are more questions than answers right now.  I got the impression that there would be a vote at some point but it was not imminent.  I think the sunset date is still a few years off.



IMnsHO, it's *always* wise and prudent for a timeshare HOA / BoD to address and resolve CC&R "sunset" details *a few years **in advance* of the CC&R "sunset" year. 

The termination language in the CC&R's likely identifies a very specific minimum voting percentage requirement for a decision (either continuation or termination as a timeshare, depending on how worded in the Declaration; each instance is different). It takes time to reach out to (and get enough responses back from) enough owners to reach that minimum percentage. I personally know of facilities that are presently providing (in hand) termination "amendment" ballots to owners this year (beginning 1/1/2016) when they check-in, at places where the "sunset" year is not until CY 2021 or CY 2022. Presumably, at some point they will amass their required percentage and then proceed with a formal CC&R amendment. *No* HOA / BoD can ever just unilaterally "amend" CC&R content entirely on their own, voting only among themselves; that would be in clear violation of applicable and specific voting percentage requirements reflected in the underlying, legally binding, recorded Declaration / CC&R's.  

I tip my cap to *any* HOA / BoD that has the awareness and foresight to tackle this "sunset clause" matter *well* in advance, thereby avoiding a (completely unnecessary) frantic, last minute legal scramble and fire drill later when, perhaps by then too constrained for time (due to their own prior inaction and negligence) they are unable to acquire the minimum voting percentage in time to avoid the "default" action (whether it's termination *or* continuation) specified in the underlying Declaration / CC&R's.


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## larsonharry2 (Feb 3, 2016)

It will be such a loss if Foxrun stops to be a timeshare place. My wife loves it, because it has wonderful location, it's extremely clean and well furnished.

I hope there is another solution and things will be as they are now


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## theo (Feb 3, 2016)

RonB said:


> <snip>  *If every owner can be found and agrees*, the property can be sold and you get 1/50th the value of your unit after expenses.



Without claiming to know anything at all about this particular facility, I seriously doubt that its' underlying CC&R's actually identify a 100% voting requirement. 
I don't believe that a 100% voting / agreement requirement exists in *any* CC&R's / Declarations *anywhere*; it would be a virtually impossible standard to meet.


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## RonB (Feb 3, 2016)

theo said:


> Without claiming to know anything at all about this particular facility, I seriously doubt that its' underlying CC&R's actually identify a 100% voting requirement.
> I don't believe that a 100% voting / agreement requirement exists in *any* CC&R's / Declarations *anywhere*; it would be a virtually impossible standard to meet.



Sorry Theo - you are correct, at my TS, it's somewhere around 75 to 80 percent. I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that ~ Ron


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## TUGBrian (Feb 3, 2016)

sadly in terms of being realistic...80% might as well be 100%.


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## theo (Feb 3, 2016)

TUGBrian said:


> sadly in terms of being realistic...80% might as well be 100%.



True, but underlying CC&R wording can also be something like a 51% *response* minimum, with a "supermajority" of *those* votes required one way or another, no? 

Truth to tell, there seems to be a broad range of odd and often convoluted wording reflected among the (admittedly relatively few) different Declarations I've read. 
Ironically, "default" options (in the absence of achieving minimum required votes) can even be polar *opposites* (i.e., "default" meaning continuation as a timeshare in one instance, but "default" meaning termination as a timeshare in another). A very strange and very confusing place, this Planet Timeshare, no? 

Brian: whatever became of the anticipated attorney publication / article to which you made reference some time ago after attending his presentation on this topic?


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## raygo123 (Feb 4, 2016)

Well, at the last renewal they had enough votes to pull away from Wyndham.

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## theo (Feb 4, 2016)

raygo123 said:


> Well, at the last renewal they had enough votes to pull away from Wyndham.



That's likely completely irrelevant to the subject of "termination", however... 

CC&R's / Declarations generally contain a very specific section or "chapter" addressing (and usually clearly entitled) *Termination*. The details specified therein pertain directly and *only* to that particular very specific matter, whereas affiliation with a management company or entity is a very different (and unrelated) kettle of fish ---- and (...*un**like* the matter of termination), one that surely does not require any alteration to the legally binding content of existing, recorded CC&R's / Declaration.


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## raygo123 (Feb 4, 2016)

theo said:


> That's likely completely irrelevant to the subject of "termination", however...
> 
> CC&R's / Declarations generally contain a very specific section or "chapter" addressing (and usually clearly entitled) *Termination*. The details specified therein pertain directly and *only* to that particular very specific matter, whereas affiliation with a management company or entity is a very different (and unrelated) kettle of fish ---- and (...*un**like* the matter of termination), one that surely does not require any alteration to the legally binding content of existing, recorded CC&R's / Declaration.


Yes, and no.  I was referring more as to what would be needed to pass a motion, of which termination is only one.  The one I went through was to change management from Wyndham to Variety, at fox run, formally Fairfield mountains, which I owned.  The CC&R may even spell out different % needed for specific issues.  

By that statement it pointed out the fact that through proxy or vote, fox run DID get the needed votes to break from Wyndham.  

In my opinion, they will get enough votes to remain a timeshare, given past experience.

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## theo (Feb 4, 2016)

raygo123 said:


> Yes, and no.  I was referring more as to what would be needed to pass a motion, of which termination is only one.  The one I went through was to change management from Wyndham to Variety, at fox run, formally Fairfield mountains, which I owned.  The CC&R may even spell out different % needed for specific issues.
> 
> By that statement it pointed out the fact that through proxy or vote, fox run DID get the needed votes to break from Wyndham.



I'm certainly not seeking to argue with you --- and I do not claim to know anything at all about the resort to which you refer above.

Management changes can (and do) occur *without* any alteration to underlying, recorded CC&R's / Declaration. Resort BoD's / HOA's contract with and can replace the contracted management company --- generally without need for any broad ownership vote or any alteration whatsoever to  underlying CC&R / Declaration language.

Termination, on the other hand (as well as associated minimum total owner voting percentage requirements) is quite precisely addressed within officially recorded, legally binding CC&R's / Declarations, which *cannot* be just ignored or unilaterally altered by a BoD / HOA, but instead require broad ownership vote, achieving whatever minimum vote percentage is specified within the Termination section language of the governing CC&R's / Declaration.

Small points of distinction perhaps. Termination language in any given resort's CC&R's / Declaration is frequently too-little understood and much too-often overlooked (...but is nonetheless legally binding). This issue will be (and certainly *deserves* to be) gaining center stage at many facilities as the 2020's loom ever closer.


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## legalfee (May 23, 2016)

You would have thought the HOA would have communicated with the owners on something as important as shutting down the timeshare. This thread is the first I've heard about it. When is the vote?


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