# Tips for Surviving Developer Presentation?



## onenotesamba (Jul 4, 2015)

Hi, all.  Longtime lurker, first time poster.

At the outset, let me say that I'm tremendously grateful for all of the tips and advice on the board.  I've studied it, and after coming to the conclusion that we're likely to buy-in to HGVC, we've got a pretty good idea of what we should do.  Specifically:

-Buy resale.
-Use either Seth or Judi.
-Get the most points on a single unit as possible (7,000+).
-Lowest MFs/Taxes are in Vegas.
-Buy in an HGVC-developed project, if possible.

So, all of that having been said...last week I called the Hhonors customer service number to add my number to a reservation, and they offered my 500 Hhonors points to listen to a promotional opportunity, which is a variation of the HGVC pitch/deal that I've seen referenced in other threads on this board.  

-4 Days/3 Nights at a Vegas Property (Trump, Elara or Strip)
-2 hour HGVC tour and presentation.
-2 VIP dinner and show tickets.
-$200 credit against a future Hilton Hotel stay.
-5000 Hhonors points.
-$165 to buy the 'promotion.'

Since we were planning a trip to Las Vegas anyway, and we're poised to buy HGVC on the resale market, anyway, I figured that this would be a cheap and easy way to learn a little more about the program, experience the property, and have a fun long weekend playing pai gow poker. 

Between now and our travel dates, I'm planning to practice saying "No, thank you" at the presentation, but I'm wondering whether any of you have any tips that might make the 2 hours a little less painful.  For example:

-Should I mention that I intend to buy resale?
-Would it make sense to hold out and see if I can get other promotions before buying my first points on the resale market?  They were also offering a week in Hawaii for under $700.  If I could do a couple more presentations before buying, I might want to do that, or is that a dumb idea?
-Any advantage to saying something other than "no" right out of the gate?  Is there any strategic value to making them think that I'm possibly foolish enough to buy direct, that I should say "maybe" for a while before I say "no?"  Meaning--if they think I'm a sucker, would that maybe get me more perks/upgrades/benefits for the three nights that we're there?

Any thoughts you all have would be greatly appreciated.  And, again, thanks for all of the great advice on this board!


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## presley (Jul 4, 2015)

That's an incredible deal and I'd think it would be too good to be true, but if you already paid for it and you have a document that says you get all that stuff, it must be true. I never get offered anything worth my time and have never been to a HGVC presentation.

That said, I get invited to them often. I've been invited through my timeshare stays, staying at other resort and also by getting cold called. You will find some Tuggers who do attend these things as often as they can. They say that it is good to remain stone faced, don't ask any questions and don't show any interest at all. So, I wouldn't recommend mentioning that you will buy resale. They are trained with comebacks to anything you say. You are better to off to say nothing and then tell them you never make large purchases on the spot when you are leaving and collecting your prizes. If you show any interest, they will keep you overtime and that can be for several hours.

You can do as many presentations as you want, even after you buy resale, but I've been told by the "concierge" at one location that there is a one presentation per 6 months rule. That may only apply to current owners, though. I'm sure you'll see it in your fine print.


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## x3 skier (Jul 4, 2015)

I went to the Vegas Presento earlier this year on a very similar deal. When I met the salesman, I told him up front I had no intention of buying and if I had to, I would waste his time and mine but if he just wanted to skip it, that's what made sense to me. He was agreeable to skipping the Presento but after checking with his Boss, said we had to spend the two hours.

We chatted for two hours about our past careers, various places we have been, merits of various airlines and really only a small part of it about HGVC. At almost exactly 120 minutes of rather interesting conversation, I met the next guy up the line, took two minutes to reiterate no sale to him, got my certificate and headed for the pool. Hilton is one of the few who accept no sale rather readily in my experience. 

All in all, two hours of conversation was a small price to pay for a pretty cheap stay in Vegas. I just used the certificate last weekend. I mailed it in and am awaiting the check.

BTW, the meal and the show "Vegas" were both very good. 

Cheers


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## weems637 (Jul 4, 2015)

*a Lie for a Lie, tooth for a tooth*

amend it a bit to "I've already bought resale and we love it. I will NEVER consider retail".

I did this at the last update I went to.  The sales guy looked and me, said "really?", closed his portfolio and walked off.  My wife and I looked at each other with that "YES!" look in our eyes, and we too got up and left.  15 minutes tops!


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## Talent312 (Jul 4, 2015)

Just don't let yourself be hornswaggled into signing anything with fine print that says:

"Whenever I say 'no' or 'not interested,' you may construe that to mean that I actually do want to spend an absurd amount of money for a bad deal, and believe that those HH points you offer are worth something." 
.


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## MikeinSoCal (Jul 4, 2015)

I've been to three timeshare presentations and all of them were under an hour.  The quickest one was at the Westin Maui.  That one was about 20 minutes.  I listened to the sales pitch and then I said, "no, thank you" and he immediately starting writing out my certificate for attending.  I said, "that's all?" and he said, "these things sell themselves".  I almost felt like I was missing out on something.  

I have a co-worker that has a different strategy.  He buys in immediately and then he rescinds.  I don't know how true this is, but it was pretty amusing to hear that tatic.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jul 4, 2015)

presley said:


> .
> 
> That said, I get invited to them often. I've been invited through my timeshare stays, staying at other resort and also by getting cold called. You will find some Tuggers who do attend these things as often as they can. They say that it is good to remain stone faced, don't ask any questions and don't show any interest at all. So, I wouldn't recommend mentioning that you will buy resale. They are trained with comebacks to anything you say. You are better to off to say nothing and then tell them you never make large purchases on the spot when you are leaving and collecting your prizes. If you show any interest, they will keep you overtime and that can be for several hours.
> 
> You can do as many presentations as you want, even after you buy resale, but I've been told by the "concierge" at one location that there is a one presentation per 6 months rule. That may only apply to current owners, though. I'm sure you'll see it in your fine print.



Good thoughts. Tell them that you have (or will have) kids/grandkids to get through college and/or unanticipated medical expenses and there is no money left for timeshares.  We simply tell them that we cannot afford to vacation anymore than with our current situation (i.e. with our existing timeshare) because of these expenses. They will want to know how often you vacation to get to a budgeted amount (that magically saves money).  Do not share numbers if they push. If they push then tell them frankly you do not see it appropriate to share your financial situation with anyone but your licensed financial advisor.  It is none of their business.


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## tompalm (Jul 4, 2015)

If you are going to the presentation, pick their brain and ask a bunch of questions. They plan to keep you there anyway, so learn how to use the website, which resorts have the lowest maintenance fees, when is the best time to travel, ask about open season, take your iPad or phone out and check what they are telling you. They hate that. When the hard sale starts to happen, tell them your friends all bought for $1 per point and you would be happy to buy from them if they give you the same deal. Don't let them spend time talking about using HGVC points for airline tickets, cruises, Hhoners or anything else. Those deals are not a smart use of points. Tell them you love the timeshare, plan to use your points on timeshares and nothing else. If needed, tell them your brother is a travel agent and gets you special rates on cruises, airfare, etc...take control of the conversation and don't let them talk your ear off. That gets old fast.


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## tompalm (Jul 4, 2015)

One thing about Hilton, Marriott and other high end timeshares is that they are promoting the name and don't want you to leave angry at their company. They want you to continue using the Hilton Hotels and to get a Hiton credit card for points. So normally the Hilton presentation is pretty friendly. Don't ever attend a WasteGate or other cheap timeshare presentation, you will get the hard sale, the supervisor hard sale, the manger will come out next with the hard sale. It is bad.


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## onenotesamba (Jul 4, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback.  Really helpful.

I guess I didn't realize that even current owners are eligible for these "promotions."  Meaning, I could still take advantage of more of these promotions down the line, even after I've already become an owner?


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## Talent312 (Jul 4, 2015)

onenotesamba said:


> I didn't realize that even current owners are eligible for these "promotions."



At HGVC-Anderson in Myrtle Beach, they offered us $75 or 20K HH points to see the new Ocean 22.
They weren't amused when I said: "Sorry. Half a night at a Hampton Inn won't do it for me."
.


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## tompalm (Jul 4, 2015)

onenotesamba said:


> Thanks for the feedback.  Really helpful.
> 
> I guess I didn't realize that even current owners are eligible for these "promotions."  Meaning, I could still take advantage of more of these promotions down the line, even after I've already become an owner?



They call them "owner's update". But they are really trying to sell you more points. The rewards are not very good, or as good as a newbie gets. But it is easy if all you have to do is walk downstairs to attend in the same building you are staying at.  There is no tour and all you do is talk about the program or buying more points. Most of the time you will be done in 30-40 minutes unless you have questions or want to stay longer. As soon as they find out you bought resale and don't plan on paying more than $1 a point, they send you on your way. 

I spend a couple weeks in Vegas every year and have plenty of free time. When they ask me to attend, I always tell them I have done that before and not interested. But when they call my room or cell phone over and over again, we cave in. The rewards are getting to be a joke. 20,000 points will not get one free night in a hotel, the shows they offer are cheap and it is not really worth it unless you have lots of free time. They have a few good shows where you can buy one ticket and get the second one free. We spent $90 to see a show and got two tickets for that. The cheapest tickets to that show were $110 and there were no discounts at the time. So figure you might get $100 gift at best for attending.


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## onenotesamba (Jul 4, 2015)

So, when they called, they made a big deal about how this was because I met the 'qualifications' and that if I didn't do the presentation for the full two hours, I'd be charged the difference between the promotional cost, and the full value of the package.

I'll look at the terms to see if it specifies what those qualifications are...but if buying resale before I actually see the presentation means I get hit for a bill of several hundred bucks, well, I'd be inclined to buy resale after I've already made the trip, which just means restraining myself from pouncing on any deals that might pass ROFR for the next several months...


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## Jason245 (Jul 5, 2015)

onenotesamba said:


> So, when they called, they made a big deal about how this was because I met the 'qualifications' and that if I didn't do the presentation for the full two hours, I'd be charged the difference between the promotional cost, and the full value of the package.
> 
> I'll look at the terms to see if it specifies what those qualifications are...but if buying resale before I actually see the presentation means I get hit for a bill of several hundred bucks, well, I'd be inclined to buy resale after I've already made the trip, which just means restraining myself from pouncing on any deals that might pass ROFR for the next several months...


I did one of these deals.  a few weeks before the presentation my bay club unit closed.  Terms and conditions said I couldn't be a hgvclub member at time of presentation.  1 day after presentation  (where I had the sales man sell my dw on all the locations and amazing resorts hgvc had and where I showed her how much they wanted to sell it to us for with "preferred pricing ") I enrolled my unit. . Preferred pricing was like 28k. .my buy in free. .resale is the way to go. .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## TUGBrian (Jul 5, 2015)

why yes, we do!

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare-sales-presentation-information.html


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## onenotesamba (Jul 5, 2015)

Thanks so much.  VERY helpful.


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## brp (Jul 6, 2015)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Good thoughts. Tell them that you have (or will have) kids/grandkids to get through college and/or unanticipated medical expenses and there is no money left for timeshares.



We've never had to resort to making things up. I have gone to several of these, sometimes to actually get information, sometimes just for the perks. I can counter any one of their arguments with facts and data that show that, even though we have the money to buy their timeshare, it doesn't make sense. Usually out in 30-40 minutes when they have nothing more to say. The only times it's been longer is when we have actual questions.

Cheers.


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## BullDundee (Jul 7, 2015)

When we went to our retail pitch, they kept asking about "where do you like to vacation ?; how often do your vacation? and so forth. I responded that my retired life was one big vacation...farm in Virginia...winter home in Fl....3 prime weeks in our Key West TS...and I didn't need any more vacations. When she asked why we were there I told her that "I had been in business for over 35 years and just wanted to understand their business model"....game over.....you could see her give up....no scripted responses to that objection !


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## zerocylinders (Jul 7, 2015)

FWIW I got almost exactly the same offer from HHonors/Hilton several years ago, before I owned anything.  At the risk of repeating much of the good advice, I would add that you should keep a somewhat open (but highly skeptical) mind.  I have lived through 4 in person HGVC pitches, and I never felt overly pressured; in the end I was glad I did.  Here is how it went with me:

1) I accepted the $165 deal and got a free week with my then fiance in the Orlando Tuscany property.  We loved the resort FYI.

2) I told them that I was planning to get married and was not sure what job I would have, or where I would live, or if I needed to buy a new home, etc. and would not be in a position to commit to anything until we were married.  I was, however, interested and I listened (constantly reminding the pitch man that I could not buy even if I wanted to).  

3) After offering me several "great deals" he brought in his manager who listened to my reasons and responded with a "VIP package" which involved paying $1,000 to get enough points to give me another week during platinum season at a resort of my choice.  This was also credited to any purchase I later made.  I took this offer and left happy.

4) I ended up using the VIP package for two more trips over the next 18 months (like with HGVC, you use points so you can split the vacation period): a 3 day trip with my fiancee, and then a 4 day trip with my fiance and her children.  I did have to suffer through another pitch during the first VIP trip, but I re-explained that I could not commit until I was married and the pitch was very short lived.     

5) Jst before the second VIP trip, I got a series of phone calls about my "expiring VIP package" and "special offers" that were available to me only over the phone.  The pitch, essentially, was that I could avoid another in person resort "tour" / pitch and get the best deal over the phone, IF I acted before my VIP package expired.  I said no, no, no.

6) An interesting thing happened when I said no to the VIP phone lady: she started offering me bonus points.  first it was 5,000 bonus points, then it was 10,000, then 15,000.  I told her that my fiance and I were planning to buy when we were married, but we were going to buy resale to save money.  THEN, a week before my VIP package was going to expire, and a few weeks before my last VIP package trip, it went up to 20,000 bonus points. plus double my money on the VIP package I bought ($2,000 credit), plus a good discount on an alternating year platinum week at Sunrise Lodge (which was new back then, and no resales were available - still aren't very common).  

7) With 30,000 bonus points and a good deal on Sunrise Lodge (I ski), it was too good to pass up.  I may have been able to do better waiting a few years for resales, but I doubt it.  Those bonus points took care of my honeymoon in Hawaii (Kings Land), another Orlando trip with the kids and fiance, a year of maintenance fees, and part of a forthcoming second trip to Hawaii.  And that is not even counting the value of the VIP package.  

8) When I went to my last "owners update," I did the same thing and ended up with another VIP package (yes, they DO offer those to existing owners if you remain interested but say you need to wait ...).  A year later, again with the "phone lady" in charge of VIP, I upgraded my Sunrise Lodge, got a $2,400 credit for my $1,200 VIP package, got 2 more free trips out of the VIP package, another 12,000 bonus points, and a very good price on my upgrade. to an annual.  The total cash that I paid for my unit is about $5,000 more than resale prices when you can even find resales in ski season there, but 32,000 bonus points in total plus the the several vacations we took with the VIP packages make that a bargain in my book.

In short, it pays to be polite, interested, and completely inflexible financially and focused on how much better a deal you can get in resale.  If you are persistent (they will be), you can MAKE THEM give you an offer that at least equals resale. Then wait till the very last minute to see what the absolute best offer they can come up with is and evaluate it objectively. And enjoy the VIP packages in the meantime whether or not you take the offer.


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## onenotesamba (Jul 8, 2015)

That's really helpful.  So, it sounds like the VIP Package is essentially a trial run of the program...purchase the points without a deed and use them to vacation, and then they'll continue to pitch you and offer you 'promotions' and 'VIP Packages' until either you buy (on your own terms) or they give up (on your own terms).

At this point, I'd be inclined to delay my first point purchase for as long as possible, in hopes of getting promotions (cut rate weeks to buy, in exchange for a two hour presentation), or VIP packages (cash for points in the system with no deeded buy-in $). The question, I guess, is how long could I attend two hour presentations where I say that I'm interested but not ready, before these offers disappear.


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## Jason245 (Jul 10, 2015)

onenotesamba said:


> That's really helpful.  So, it sounds like the VIP Package is essentially a trial run of the program...purchase the points without a deed and use them to vacation, and then they'll continue to pitch you and offer you 'promotions' and 'VIP Packages' until either you buy (on your own terms) or they give up (on your own terms).
> 
> At this point, I'd be inclined to delay my first point purchase for as long as possible, in hopes of getting promotions (cut rate weeks to buy, in exchange for a two hour presentation), or VIP packages (cash for points in the system with no deeded buy-in $). The question, I guess, is how long could I attend two hour presentations where I say that I'm interested but not ready, before these offers disappear.



Seems like a lot of hassel to me. They are selling the points package for more than the MF cost. You could probably just rent the same week directly for about the same price from an owner (depending on where you want to go), maybe pay a few hundered more, but don't have to worry about presentation.. especially if you don't plan on using what you paid for the VIP package to be applied to your "purchase" from them.


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