# New DC Status Tiers effective 4/30/15



## GregT

_***Note with the OP's permission this post and replies to it have been moved from the Global points system thread where possible changes to the DC status tiers were first discussed.***  <--- SueDonJ_

All,

Here is the info on the new levels.   They've created four new levels:

Select (4,000 - 6,999 points)
Executive (7,000 - 9,999 points)
Presidential (10,000 - 14,999 points)
Chairman's Club (15,000 points +)

It looks like Executive (the new 7,000 point level) is effectively the same as the old _Premier Plus_.   Everyone with Premier is now grandfathered into Executive.  This is an important change for the former Premier owner.

The new Chairman's Club (the new 15,000 point level) has two years for banked points, and an extra month for the decision to bank (ie, October versus September).  Premier Plus is grandfathered to CC.

Presidential -- in between Executive and Chairman's Club -- provides points to be banked for 18 months and also allows the extra month for the banking decision.

I don't think the changes are that significant -- most interesting is the expansion of 1+ day reservations 13 months out (the best thing about Premier Plus) is now extended down to Executive.  That's a powerful feature for Executive, just as it used to be for PP.

Best,

Greg


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## SueDonJ

Good gravy, could they make things any more confusing?!  (Probably shouldn't ask that because if they can, they will.)

I have to eat my words, never thought they'd do any grandfathering among status levels based on the wording in the docs at the DC outset.  I'm happy they have, though.  

Greg, can you source this pdf to a link on my-vacationclub.com?  And, do you know if there have been or will be changes/amendments to the governing docs to counter the status levels as defined in the existing versions?  I'll look closely later but if you have it handy in the meantime ...  Thanks!


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## dualrated2

Thanks for the attachment Greg.


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## SueDonJ

Am I reading this correctly?  They've removed the additional 10% discount using the Marriott VISA for cash stays?

"Owner Rental Discounts" footnote 2 - "Cannot be used with any other discounts."

Wonder if it's also going going gone with the "MOD" discount?


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## dioxide45

It looks like a lot more people will be able to reserve 7+ nights at 13 months. Anyone with 4,000 ore more DC points in the Select level. Looks like that is us. No other beanies worth worrying about for us.

I think this is geared toward finding more people to sell a small points package to in order to get them up to the next level. They will target a lot of people just below the 4,000 points level to sell 1,000-1,500 packages to.

I really think Chairman's Club should be able to elect right up to December 31st. The didn't go that far. Not much difference between the top two tiers.

I too am glad they are grandfathering. Never thought they would. I guess the sales people were not lying for a change


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## Docklander

dioxide45 said:


> I guess the sales people were not lying for a change



Or they just got lucky in that one of their wild guesses/exaggerations actually came true for once


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## GregT

dioxide45 said:


> It looks like a lot more people will be able to reserve 7+ nights at 13 months.



And alot more people can book 1+ night at 13 months.  This feature has always intrigued me because it can impact availability for other users.   As a Premier Plus, I could break a week so that it wasn't available for anyone seeking a 7+ night reservation.   But there weren't that many PP's out there -- but now there will be lots of Executive level people.

I will be very curious to see what happens to availability from this expanded capability.

Best,

Greg


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## SMB1

SueDonJ said:


> Am I reading this correctly?  They've removed the additional 10% discount using the Marriott VISA for cash stays?
> 
> "Owner Rental Discounts" footnote 2 - "Cannot be used with any other discounts."
> 
> Wonder if it's also going going gone with the "MOD" discount?



Hmmm.  I will enjoy the 1+ nights at 13 months.  But if you are right, this is a little disappointing.  I've taken advantage of the 40% (30% + 10%) several times.  At first glance was thinking I would get the 45%.  If you're right, it'll be 35%


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## dioxide45

I wonder what the percentage breakdowns will be for each each tier. In the past only 5% were PP and the next 15% were P. Are they deviating from this now? Will have to wait for updated Exchange Procedures.


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## GreenTea

I wonder if the grandfathering is permanent or just for the year to try to get the borderline folks to buy more.  It doesn't read like its temporary, but I'm always on guard about things like that.


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## dioxide45

GreenTea said:


> I wonder if the grandfathering is permanent or just for the year to try to get the borderline folks to buy more.  It doesn't read like its temporary, but I'm always on guard about things like that.



It sounds permanent, unless your points drop below the previous levels. Then you would need to get enough points for the new levels to move up.


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## GreenTea

dioxide45 said:


> It sounds permanent, unless your points drop below the previous levels. Then you would need to get enough points for the new levels to move up.





Down at the bottom of the second page it DOES say point numbers to reach or keep status subject to change.....

I don't have enough to be any level so I'm neither gaining nor losing anything.    They can't change things like adding restrictions after the sale , can they?   (Like saying folks with less than 4k points can't book until 6 months out)


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## SueDonJ

GreenTea said:


> I wonder if the grandfathering is permanent or just for the year to try to get the borderline folks to buy more.  It doesn't read like its temporary, but I'm always on guard about things like that.



I'm wondering if there will be changes to the Points allocations for Enrolled Weeks before 4/29.  Other than that, I'd say the grandfathering that will happen on 4/30 will be permanent through the next tier adjustments.


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## ilene13

Maybe I'm crazy but page 1 does not match page 2.  We have 13,500 points.  On pg. 1 that is Chairman's on page 2 that is Presidential.  My bad--I just read the little note--If I have 13,000+ points as of 4/29 I will be a grandfathered Chairman!!!  Interesting.


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## NYFLTRAVELER

How does this affect somebody (like me) with 3500 points?

And what was somebody explaining about doing away with the discounts for MVCI owners off room rates?


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## StevenTing

Hmm.. with my 9225 that means I'm Executive.  I was happy with Premier.  The addition of being able to book 1+ days at 13 months is a nice bonus for me. I just wonder how many people I will be fighting now for my reservation using points.  Good think my weeks are in Hawaii.


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## dioxide45

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> How does this affect somebody (like me) with 3500 points?
> 
> And what was somebody explaining about doing away with the discounts for MVCI owners off room rates?



I think the MOD discount is still in tact. Not sure if the 10% additional discount with the Visa will still be there. There is no mention to the changes with MOD. I suspect the codes will all still be the same. Will have to wait and see.


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## GregT

StevenTing said:


> Hmm.. with my 9225 that means I'm Executive.  I was happy with Premier.  The addition of being able to book 1+ days at 13 months is a nice bonus for me. I just wonder how many people I will be fighting now for my reservation using points.  Good think my weeks are in Hawaii.



Steven, 

I think this is a real win for you.   I know you love Ko Olina, and now have the ability to add an extra 1-6 days to extend your owned week.

This new benefit for the Executive level really helps leverage the combination of owning a week and then controlling your own 1-6 day extension through points.

I think this is a nice change for former Premier's.

Best,

Greg


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## MALC9990

SueDonJ said:


> Am I reading this correctly?  They've removed the additional 10% discount using the Marriott VISA for cash stays?
> 
> "Owner Rental Discounts" footnote 2 - "Cannot be used with any other discounts."
> 
> Wonder if it's also going going gone with the "MOD" discount?


No Big Deal, those of us outside the USA never got that anyway. Big dissapointment is that AP Points and PBC weeks owners are STILL EXCLUDED. 

As an enrolled DC weeks owner in Europe and a PBC weeks owner and an AP points owner I am GUTTED to be excluded AGAIN.


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## suzannesimon

I can see I'm going to have a problem now booking my resale week that isn't on the Point system .  I can't book until 12 months out and with all the additional owners being able to book at 13 months, it could get difficult.  You're right:   It will also be a great selling feature to the basic "Owner" level when they find everything is gone by 12 months.


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## dioxide45

suzannesimon said:


> I can see I'm going to have a problem now booking my resale week that isn't on the Point system .  I can't book until 12 months out and with all the additional owners being able to book at 13 months, it could get difficult.  You're right:   It will also be a great selling feature to the basic "Owner" level when they find everything is gone by 12 months.



This shouldn't have any impact on weeks based reservations. If it does, that lawsuit has merit.


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## mjm1

GregT said:


> Steven,
> 
> I think this is a real win for you.   I know you love Ko Olina, and now have the ability to add an extra 1-6 days to extend your owned week.
> 
> This new benefit for the Executive level really helps leverage the combination of owning a week and then controlling your own 1-6 day extension through points.
> 
> I think this is a nice change for former Premier's.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



Greg, thanks for sharing this information. We are the situation as Steven with owning a EOY week at Ko Olina. Nice to be able to add some extra nights at 13 months out. Glad we bought resale points when we did.

Mike


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## GrayFal

suzannesimon said:


> I can see I'm going to have a problem now booking my resale week that isn't on the Point system .  I can't book until 12 months out and with all the additional owners being able to book at 13 months, it could get difficult.  You're right:   It will also be a great selling feature to the basic "Owner" level when they find everything is gone by 12 months.





dioxide45 said:


> This shouldn't have any impact on weeks based reservations. If it does, that lawsuit has merit.


I agree.
If your week isn't in points, it does not impact availability.


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## SueDonJ

SueDonJ said:


> I'm wondering if there will be changes to the Points allocations for Enrolled Weeks before 4/29.  Other than that, I'd say the grandfathering that will happen on 4/30 will be permanent through the next tier adjustments.



Talking to myself again.  

The reason why I thought Points allocations might also be happening is because they announced these changes so far in advance of the effective date, which hasn't really been SOP for anything related to the DC.  But my account still shows the same Enrolled Weeks allocations through 2017 so maybe I'm worrying over nothing ...


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## TouristTrap

They decided to dilute the premier plus pool by adding all the premiers. That's great for the premiers but it is going to destroy the calendar at 13 months.  It looks like they gave up on selling more points to the premiers and will try to force everyone up to the 7,000 tier.


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## puckmanfl

good evening

Boy, would I be angry If I purchased a small package to become PP... They dropped the points for the only major benefit of old PP to 7K

yikes..luckily, I didn't top off...but I know some that did...


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## Superchief

I am Premier Plus with 13800 points and look forward to being Chariman. The ability to bank for 2 yr is a big bonus, although the 13 month 1+ benefit will now be greatly diluted. I wonder if there will be any change in points rental opportunities.


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## SueDonJ

suzannesimon said:


> I can see I'm going to have a problem now booking my resale week that isn't on the Point system .  I can't book until 12 months out and with all the additional owners being able to book at 13 months, it could get difficult.  You're right:   It will also be a great selling feature to the basic "Owner" level when they find everything is gone by 12 months.



Say there are 100 Weeks, 50 enrolled and 50 unenrolled.  Of the 50 enrolled only 25 are converted to Points.  That means 75 Weeks can ultimately be used as home reservations in the Weeks system, which means that Marriott must leave 75 Weeks available for those Owners.  As long as the Owners comply with the reservation rules and don't choose other usage (MRP exchange, II deposit, etc) there will be 75 intervals available for their use regardless of how many II exchangers or DC Points users (Trust or Exchange Members) want to exchange into the same interval type.

What we don't know is how Marriott allocates the 75 intervals that they have to make available to those Weeks owners, whether it's based on a strict percentage basis of every week in the season, on a first-come-first-serve basis as requested, or something else.  But the availability metric hasn't ever been publicized by Marriott so we have no reason to believe that the DC impacts it any more negatively than before.  It still comes down to compliance with the Weeks governing documents, which protect usage rights for Weeks Owners who choose to use their Weeks at their home resorts and follow the rules to reserve them.


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## Superchief

It will be interesting to see if the ability to bank points for longer time periods will encourage more people to book more high point vacation packages. I bet MVC is counting on that.


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## JIMinNC

As a relatively new owner with only 3375 DC points (combined Legacy and Trust from a  small combo purchase), the biggest concern for me is the impact on availability at the 12-month window. This will expand the number of people who can book with no points premium at the 13 month window and the number who can book less than 7 nights prior to the 10 month window.

It's obviously a tactic to get base-tier owners like me to buy up to at least 4,000, but at a cost of $12,000+ for a minimum 1,000 point purchase, that's not a very attractive option.

This is clearly a devaluation of the DC for smaller points owners and new owners, but appears to be a positive change  for Legacy owners who were able to immediately get Premier and Premier Plus status when they enrolled their multiple weeks back at the start of the DC.

Unfortunately, I don't see an obvious strategy to counterbalance this devaluation. Renting points doesn't help because we are still restricted to the least favorable reservation windows - with a lot more people in the pecking order ahead of us now.

Ugh!


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## SueDonJ

SMB1 said:


> Hmmm.  I will enjoy the 1+ nights at 13 months.  But if you are right, this is a little disappointing.  I've taken advantage of the 40% (30% + 10%) several times.  At first glance was thinking I would get the 45%.  If you're right, it'll be 35%



Yep.  We've used that 45% discount quite a bit and will miss it.  In all the previous versions of the "Benefits At A Glance" chart the footnote was that the DC cash discount would be increased 10% if the Chase Marriott VISA is used.  Now the footnote is that no other discounts will apply.

I wonder if this is more a function of MVW no longer under the MI umbrella, maybe the long-term contract with Chase has been recently renewed under the MVW umbrella?  If that's the reason then I'd expect the 10% additional when using "MOD" is also ending.

Stinks to lose it.


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## SueDonJ

Superchief said:


> It will be interesting to see if the ability to bank points for longer time periods will encourage more people to book more high point vacation packages. I bet MVC is counting on that.



I'll definitely be using the 2-year banking option because our vacation plans are so up in the air for these next two years, but you're right that it'll really be attractive to those who want to use Explorer Collection and other high-Points options.

On May 1 I'll be first in line to try to bank what's in our account now ahead two years.


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## Fairwinds

JIMinNC said:


> As a relatively new owner with only 3375 DC points (combined Legacy and Trust from a  small combo purchase), the biggest concern for me is the impact on availability at the 12-month window. This will expand the number of people who can book with no points premium at the 13 month window and the number who can book less than 7 nights prior to the 10 month window.
> 
> It's obviously a tactic to get base-tier owners like me to buy up to at least 4,000, but at a cost of $12,000+ for a minimum 1,000 point purchase, that's not a very attractive option.
> 
> This is clearly a devaluation of the DC for smaller points owners and new owners, but appears to be a positive change  for Legacy owners who were able to immediately get Premier and Premier Plus status when they enrolled their multiple weeks back at the start of the DC.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't see an obvious strategy to counterbalance this devaluation. Renting points doesn't help because we are still restricted to the least favorable reservation windows - with a lot more people in the pecking order ahead of us now.
> 
> Ugh!



I don't think You'll be effected at all. I dont see where they have changed the number of intervals that are available at 13 months but only the number of owners who have 13 month access. So it may be more difficult for 13 month elegable owners to book at 13 months but the same number of weeks should open up at the 12 month mark. I guess we'll see.


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## Fairwinds

SueDonJ said:


> I'll definitely be using the 2-year banking option because our vacation plans are so up in the air for these next two years, but you're right that it'll really be attractive to those who want to use Explorer Collection and other high-Points options.
> 
> On May 1 I'll be first in line to try to bank what's in our account now ahead two years.



If you bank out two years are the points then available only in that year? A nice option would be for those of you who have the two year option a little more flexability by allowing you to borrow back one year.


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## dioxide45

Fairwinds said:


> If you bank out two years are the points then available only in that year? A nice option would be for those of you who have the two year option a little more flexability by allowing you to borrow back one year.



I think if you bank 2015 points, you can then use them in either 2016 or 2017. With the Presidential level being able to bank out 1.5 years, I don't see them tying your banked points to a specific use year.


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## Fairwinds

dioxide45 said:


> I think if you bank 2015 points, you can then use them in either 2016 or 2017. With the Presidential level being able to bank out 1.5 years, I don't see them tying your banked points to a specific use year.



Good point. Very nice option


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## JIMinNC

Fairwinds said:


> I don't think You'll be effected at all. I dont see where they have changed the number of intervals that are available at 13 months but only the number of owners who have 13 month access. So it may be more difficult for 13 month elegable owners to book at 13 months but the same number of weeks should open up at the 12 month mark. I guess we'll see.



Valid point, and if that's the case, I'm less concerned by the change. Although, with more people vying for inventory at the 13th month point, I could see where Marriott might feel the need to allocate more intervals to that window to keep their high point owners happy while adding "incentive" to upsell the owners in the lowest tier.

I don't believe I've ever seen a discussion of how much inventory currently gets made available at the 13 month vs. the 12 month window. Does anyone have an idea?


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## dioxide45

JIMinNC said:


> Valid point, and if that's the case, I'm less concerned by the change. Although, with more people vying for inventory at the 13th month point, I could see where Marriott might feel the need to allocate more intervals to that window to keep their high point owners happy while adding "incentive" to upsell the owners in the lowest tier.
> 
> I don't believe I've ever seen a discussion of how much inventory currently gets made available at the 13 month vs. the 12 month window. Does anyone have an idea?



According to the Exchange Procedures, it is 50%.


> Exchange Company may limit the Use Periods and the Accommodations on a Component-by-Component basis that are available for reservation during the Priority 1 Period, and may withhold up to fifty percent (50%) of the Use Periods and Accommodations at any particular Component for reservation during other Reservation Windows, all as determined from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion.


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## JIMinNC

dioxide45 said:


> According to the Exchange Procedures, it is 50%.





> Exchange Company may limit the Use Periods and the Accommodations on a Component-by-Component basis that are available for reservation during the Priority 1 Period, and may withhold up to fifty percent (50%) of the Use Periods and Accommodations at any particular Component for reservation during other Reservation Windows, all as determined from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion.



It says "Up to" 50%. So as I read that they would have full discretion to make 100% available to Priority 1 and 0% available to Priority 2. They just can't allocate less than 50% to Priority 1. So if they opt to reduce availability at 12 months to increase availability for Priority 1, they are free to do so. That doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy...


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## MALC9990

As a premier Plus enrolled owner, my booking experience has been that at 13 months there is little if any inventory available for booking at 13 months out, it all starts to appear at 12 months out. So to me the benefit of PP is being able to search for single days at 13 months out.


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## JIMinNC

MALC9990 said:


> As a premier Plus enrolled owner, my booking experience has been that at 13 months there is little if any inventory available for booking at 13 months out, it all starts to appear at 12 months out. So to me the benefit of PP is being able to search for single days at 13 months out.



Since I think we all can see 13-month inventory now (some of us just see it with the 20% premium added), I have noticed the same thing when browsing availability - 13 month inventory _*seems*_ limited. So I've always been confused on how that inventory allocation really works in practice. It's even more confusing when reading the quote from the program docs that dioxide posted, as that would seem to say that the rules require that at least 50% be made available to Priority 1


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## MALC9990

JIMinNC said:


> Since I think we all can see 13-month inventory now (some of us just see it with the 20% premium added), I have noticed the same thing when browsing availability - 13 month inventory _*seems*_ limited. So I've always been confused on how that inventory allocation really works in practice. It's even more confusing when reading the quote from the program docs that dioxide posted, as that would seem to say that the rules require that at least 50% be made available to Priority 1



Yes, but 50% of what? In the same way that multiple weeks owners have 13 month booking privilege, only 50% of weeks inventory at a resort is released for 13 month reservation by calling in to book multiple weeks. So for points inventory only 50% is released. That inventory, surely can only come from Trust owned weeks at a resort, and any weeks given up by an enrolled weeks owner in exchange for DC Points. Hence the limited availability at 13 months.


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## dioxide45

MALC9990 said:


> Yes, but 50% of what? In the same way that multiple weeks owners have 13 month booking privilege, only 50% of weeks inventory at a resort is released for 13 month reservation by calling in to book multiple weeks. So for points inventory only 50% is released. That inventory, surely can only come from Trust owned weeks at a resort, and any weeks given up by an enrolled weeks owner in exchange for DC Points. Hence the limited availability at 13 months.



That is exactly the issue. We don't really know what the 50% is from? It could be from two weeks or it could be from several hundred. With weeks it was easy, there were x number of units available and 50% were available at 13 months and the other 50% at 12. With DC points it could be 50% of 0. Though that would be rare.


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## GreenTea

Can members get on wait lists at 13 months that would pick up the rooms released at 12 months before regular owners had a shot?


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## puckmanfl

good morning...

Not to keep beating on this...

anyone who "topped" off with a small points package  to become PP , just got seriously "stiffed"  Basically, the only great PP benefit was less than 7 at 13 months... now almost every Premier gets that anyway....

not sure  the banking and 35% is worht bumping up to Chairman...


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## SueDonJ

GreenTea said:


> Can members get on wait lists at 13 months that would pick up the rooms released at 12 months before regular owners had a shot?



Right now the Waitlist Rules are the same for every DC Member and aren't based on status.  Requests can be taken at the 12-mos window for stays of 7 days or more, and at the 10-mos window for stays of less than 7 days.  The rules could change but there's no indication that they will.


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## Fasttr

JIMinNC said:


> As a relatively new owner with only 3375 DC points (combined Legacy and Trust from a  small combo purchase), the biggest concern for me is the impact on availability at the 12-month window. This will expand the number of people who can book with no points premium at the 13 month window and the number who can book less than 7 nights prior to the 10 month window.
> 
> It's obviously a tactic to get base-tier owners like me to buy up to at least 4,000, but at a cost of $12,000+ for a minimum 1,000 point purchase, that's not a very attractive option.



Assuming (and that's a big assumption) it becomes a necessity to snag inventory in the 13 month window, it certainly doesn't make sense to buy a 1000 points package for $12K plus MF to give you the ability.  Just pay the 20% point premium and rent the points you may need to do so.  Say its a 3,375 point ressie (using the number of points you own as the example), the 20% point premium is an extra 675 points, which would cost you approx. $375 to rent at todays rental prices.  The MF's on the extra 1000 points would cost you more than that, AND you still have the $12K in your pocket.


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## nakyak

After MVW devalued the Ritz program they have moved on to further devaluing the premier plus benefits.

One really should start to question why they should bump up to these different levels when we have seen Marriott water down the benefits to owners of lesser tiers.


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## Fairwinds

puckmanfl said:


> good morning...
> 
> Not to keep beating on this...
> 
> anyone who "topped" off with a small points package  to become PP , just got seriously "stiffed"  Basically, the only great PP benefit was less than 7 at 13 months... now almost every Premier gets that anyway....
> 
> not sure  the banking and 35% is worht bumping up to Chairman...



Personal opinion only, BUT,  I don't know if they really got the shaft. They still have more points to use and have not lost the 1+ option. But this is my opinion only based on an underlying belief that benefits of increased ownership levels should be other than access to reservations. Increased MR points, trading for excursions, purchase discounts and so on. Access to a reservation IMHO should be equal for all owners. If you have the points or own the season you should have total access to that bucket of time. (My money is as green as yours kind of thing)


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## SueDonJ

puckmanfl said:


> good morning...
> 
> Not to keep beating on this...
> 
> anyone who "topped" off with a small points package  to become PP , just got seriously "stiffed"  Basically, the only great PP benefit was less than 7 at 13 months... now almost every Premier gets that anyway....
> 
> not sure  the banking and 35% is worht bumping up to Chairman...





nakyak1504 said:


> After MVW devalued the Ritz program they have moved on to further devaluing the premier plus benefits.
> 
> One really should start to question why they should bump up to these different levels when we have seen Marriott water down the benefits to owners of lesser tiers.



I understand the thought process some have that these changes result in a "devaluation" because the pool of owners eligible for what are now Premier/Plus benefits will increase.  But the reason I don't feel the same way is because nothing is being taken away from any Members.  It's not a devaluation in the same sense as what happens in the MRP exchange program, for example, when changes to hotel/resort tiers result in Members not being able to book with the same amount of MRPs what they formerly could.

The Ritz-Carlton Members, IMO, have a legitimate beef with devaluation because their ownerships/resorts were ALWAYS touted as being a higher class of product than MVC, a separate and distinct class.  In MVW the status tiers aren't touted as different classes/products, only that there are different rules/benefits according to status levels.


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## jme

I just wish the highest level, Chairman's Club, would get FREE BREAKFAST x2 wherever it's served in a Marriott hotel.

Many hotels don't have concierge lounges at all, and others don't open on weekend. We like the Renaissance brand occasionally because of locations, and they do not have free breakfast..... bummer.


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## dansimms

*Future*

I like the idea that we were grandfathered and that in the future, as carrots are added to incentivize members to a higher level that some of us are already there and should see other nice perks being added without necessarily having to buy anything more.  After May 1st, it will take a sizeable investment to reach Chairman Club and I don't currently think there is enough to draw many Owners to that level, unless they offer Bonus Points to make the leap, which I would expect they will.  What would we like to see added to Chairman to further distinguish it as the top level?  4 years as Platinum Elite, rather than 3 ?  A bigger MOD rental discount than currently?  A richer bonus for Friendshare purchases? Better redemption rates for City Explorer Packages? A 14 month advanced booking window for 1 + ?


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## bmul2

I have just over 5900 points allocated to me.  If I read this right then if I can get to 6500 points prior to Apr 29th, then I will be granted Executive Level with a full reservation window for 1+ nights at 13 months with no premium surplus charged, like today's 20% point surcharge if booked at 13 months.

This at least causes me to think about it...


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## GregT

bmul2 said:


> I have just over 5900 points allocated to me.  If I read this right then if I can get to 6500 points prior to Apr 29th, then I will be granted Executive Level with a full reservation window for 1+ nights at 13 months with no premium surplus charged, like today's 20% point surcharge if booked at 13 months.
> 
> This at least causes me to think about it...



I think this is intentional by Marriott -- there is a real value now to having 7,000 points.   Marriott is very very good at this, and I'm sure they've studied it and see much greater sales opportunity in people upgrading to get to Executive versus people upgrading to get to Chairman.

My opinion was that there was a big distinction between being Premier Plus versus Premier -- with the new levels, I see little advantage to being Chairman Club versus being Executive.   Others may feel greater benefit, but I don't think the two year borrowing feature for CC is that exciting.  Sailing Adventures?  Maybe those will be interesting but I can't see it motivating someone to upgrade.   And the ability to have one additional month to bank isn't that exciting to me.  

If they wanted to make Chairman Club valuable, they would have changed the holding period, ie, 30 days to reservation without penalty box, or borrowed points can be restored to original Usage Year.  But these appear to have been too radical, because I'm sure they were considered.    I'm also really surprised that they didn't come up with some Uber level at 25,000 or 30,000 points to try to entice people like me to buy from them.    And honestly, the things I noted would not have been sufficient to motivate me to buy more points.

The positive (for me) is that Marriott didn't take things away from me.   I have been distrustful of Marriott for 5 years now and this is the first major change they've made to the program and it didn't offend me.   I don't really worry about the additional competition from Executives, and this may entice more people to play in points which would further lubricate the inventory.

Will be interesting to study this further.  

If I was 1,000 points away from Executive (or being grandfathered as a Premier Plus at 6,500 points), I would consider buying the points to achieve the status.   I think 1+ day reservations are that powerful, when used in combination with a legacy week at my home resort.

If I was 1,000 points away from Presidential or CC, I'd save my money and buy another resale week -- or an HGVC.

Best,

Greg


----------



## SueDonJ

bmul2 said:


> I have just over 5900 points allocated to me.  If I read this right then if I can get to 6500 points prior to Apr 29th, then I will be granted Executive Level with a full reservation window for 1+ nights at 13 months with no premium surplus charged, like today's 20% point surcharge if booked at 13 months.
> 
> This at least causes me to think about it...



That's how I read it, too.  And like has happened with every incentive program that they've ever implemented over the years, there are no doubt others like you who are at least considering a purchase to reach a certain status tier.


----------



## jme

This new hierarchy with accompanying perks might speak to those who are at a higher level but for whatever reason might wish to SELL a legacy week (or two) which was enrolled, thus dropping to a new lower level. I know a friend who sold a couple of enrolled legacy weeks over the past year "just to get out". 

If the benefit is important to them, they might want to just rent out that week each year and hold onto ownership (that is if the MF is the issue).


----------



## SueDonJ

dansimms said:


> I like the idea that we were grandfathered and that in the future, as carrots are added to incentivize members to a higher level that some of us are already there and should see other nice perks being added without necessarily having to buy anything more.  After May 1st, it will take a sizeable investment to reach Chairman Club and I don't currently think there is enough to draw many Owners to that level, unless they offer Bonus Points to make the leap, which I would expect they will.  What would we like to see added to Chairman to further distinguish it as the top level?  4 years as Platinum Elite, rather than 3 ?  A bigger MOD rental discount than currently?  A richer bonus for Friendshare purchases? Better redemption rates for City Explorer Packages? A 14 month advanced booking window for 1 + ?



What do you mean by MVW, "... offer[ing] Bonus Points to make the leap ...?"  Buying more Points to attain a higher status level is an option that's always available to anyone, and, incentives are always included with a purchase.  

Other than that, if I can ask for anything I want then I want them to offer an option to convert my floating Weeks to fixed weeks (ideally, the flexible fixed week option that's been offered by DVC at the three newest Disney timeshares.)  No question that's a pipe dream but if by some miracle it happens, I'd be okay with them offering it to every Weeks Owner.  I simply don't agree that they "owe" any new options to only those DC members eligible for Chairman's Club status.


----------



## dansimms

*What I was referring to*

I meant a purchase bonus for buying now, such as an extra 1500 Destination Points that must be used in the next 12 months, as a perk for buying Points.  I believe they have a history of offering this type of buying reward.


----------



## SueDonJ

dansimms said:


> I meant a purchase bonus for buying now, such as an extra 1500 Destination Points that must be used in the next 12 months, as a perk for buying Points.  I believe they have a history of offering this type of buying reward.



Yes, on ongoing history.  The incentives vary depending on how many Points you purchase, if they're discounted from the base price, whether they're part of a hybrid package with an internal resale Week, etc ...  But most every Points purchase already comes with a one-time Plus Points incentive.


----------



## jeepie

*Mixed but net loss for PP?*



puckmanfl said:


> Basically, the only great PP benefit was less than 7 at 13 months... now almost every Premier gets that anyway....
> 
> not sure  the banking and 35% is worht bumping up to Chairman...


Yup, that seems right to me.
I believe P was to be for the owners who were in the top 20% and PP in the top 5%, set originally at 6500 and 13000 respectively. So, IF those numbers reflect current reality, there will now be four times as many people competing for the 1+@13 months, right? And on top of that, MVC's inventory control people seem to be holding back inventory until 11-1/2 months, per another recent thread.
As PP, soon to be Chairman level, I do like the idea of two years banking. On balance, though, it seems a net loss due to the point Puckman makes...Cheers.


----------



## puckmanfl

good evening

Fairwinds...

Let's assume you had 12K points... You purchased 1000K points to get to PP and be able to reserve less than 7 days at 13 months... A huge benefit.  You really didn't need the points because you can rent at near MF's.  You just dropped 12K and 6 months later you find out that you would have this benefit anyway...

Sorry, under this scenario you were "hosed"....

with regards to the "my dollar is as good as yours argument"..just about every business in America gives perks to loyal and high end customers.  Just take my beloved Tampa Bay Lightning.  When I take Gregster to the game,As a 6 seat club season ticket holder, I get extras at a btter price than the average customer. 

I don't get upgraded on Delta..the millionmile medallions do!!! I respectfully don;t agree withyour take on  Tiered advantages  sorry!!!


----------



## jme

SueDonJ said:


> Other than that, if I can ask for anything I want then I want them to offer an option to convert my floating Weeks to fixed weeks (ideally, the flexible fixed week option that's been offered by DVC at the three newest Disney timeshares.)  No question that's a pipe dream but if by some miracle it happens, I'd be okay with them offering it to every Weeks Owner.  I simply don't agree that they "owe" any new options to only those DC members eligible for Chairman's Club status.



no, no, no.......

I have a problem with that----- we purchased BECAUSE OF the flexibility of non-fixed weeks, and we would never desire anything different. Situations change within a family due to kids growing up and family needs evolving.  

Introducing fixed weeks would automatically REDUCE the high-demand weeks available to those who might opt out of "fixed weeks", and if every single June or July week at a resort became fixed, there would never be availability for anyone else.  That probably wouldn't happen in reality, but any step closer to that (say, a % of those weeks becoming fixed) would impact the system negatively for us.  I'm positive that would begin a legal battle.

(or is the "flexible fixed week" something that won't allow the same fixed week every year, but say, alternating?  I'm not sure what flexible fixed means ?????)


----------



## answeeney

jme said:


> Introducing fixed weeks would automatically REDUCE the high-demand weeks available to those who might opt out of "fixed weeks", and if every single June or July week at a resort became fixed, there would never be availability for anyone else...


Not neccessarily, but you are right to be concerned. I suspect it could only be done fairly if Marriott had control of a unit for an entire season which could then be removed from general inventory. The released weeks could then be split up in a different way to now e.g. fixed weeks plus remainder (lower platinum/upper gold season?). Anything else could potentially be open to abuse so, unless every owner of the season buys in/agrees/gets compensated in some way then watch out for flying writs.


----------



## answeeney

puckmanfl said:


> with regards to the "my dollar is as good as yours argument"..just about every business in America gives perks to loyal and high end customers.  Just take my beloved Tampa Bay Lightning.  When I take Gregster to the game,As a 6 seat club season ticket holder, I get extras at a btter price than the average customer.
> 
> I don't get upgraded on Delta..the millionmile medallions do!!! I respectfully don;t agree withyour take on  Tiered advantages  sorry!!!


To state the obvious, perks are only ever there to boost the potential of the businesses offerring them. Flattery, as in Marriott's case with their Chairman's Club, can be pretty powerful but is really not that much different to Costco offerring a discount to those bulk buying toilet rolls. You just have to make your buying decisions based on what is offered at the time amd realise that you are not that special to anyone beyond your immediate circle.


----------



## BocaBoy

puckmanfl said:


> good evening
> 
> Fairwinds...
> 
> Let's assume you had 12K points... You purchased 1000K points to get to PP and be able to reserve less than 7 days at 13 months... A huge benefit.  You really didn't need the points because you can rent at near MF's.  You just dropped 12K and 6 months later you find out that you would have this benefit anyway...
> 
> *Sorry, under this scenario you were "hosed"....*
> 
> with regards to the "my dollar is as good as yours argument"..just about every business in America gives perks to loyal and high end customers.  Just take my beloved Tampa Bay Lightning.  When I take Gregster to the game,As a 6 seat club season ticket holder, I get extras at a btter price than the average customer.
> 
> I don't get upgraded on Delta..the million mile medallions do!!! I respectfully don;t agree with your take on  Tiered advantages  sorry!!!



Puck, I totally agree with everything you say in this post.  And the sales people have indeed been pushing sales to get owners to 13,000 points by saying they would be grandfathered into PP if they buy.  They tried this on us in December because we said we were planning to sell one week which would drop us to just a few points under 13,000.  They said we NEEDED another 1,000 points.  I declined and now with the new tiers we will be Presidential level with benefits as good as or perhaps even better than we had as Premier Plus.  If I had bought 1,000 points to retain PP I would feel hosed big time.

As it is, I personally like the changes and don't see much difference between the Presidential and Chairman's Club levels.  They both have the two big benefits for us:  (1) the ability to book one day stays at 13 months; and (2) the 30% discount for stays booked in the last 60 days before check-in, which is even more important to us.


----------



## SueDonJ

jme said:


> no, no, no.......
> 
> I have a problem with that----- we purchased BECAUSE OF the flexibility of non-fixed weeks, and we would never desire anything different. Situations change within a family due to kids growing up and family needs evolving.
> 
> Introducing fixed weeks would automatically REDUCE the high-demand weeks available to those who might opt out of "fixed weeks", and if every single June or July week at a resort became fixed, there would never be availability for anyone else.  That probably wouldn't happen in reality, but any step closer to that (say, a % of those weeks becoming fixed) would impact the system negatively for us.  I'm positive that would begin a legal battle.
> 
> (or is the "flexible fixed week" something that won't allow the same fixed week every year, but say, alternating?  I'm not sure what flexible fixed means ?????)



Hopefully I understand this correctly and am able to explain it, too!

DVC sells holiday intervals with a fixed option that you pay a premium for, with I think only 30% of the intervals being available for purchase that way.  Say a week's stay would require 100 DC Points and the fixed option premium is 20%.  At purchase you would buy 120 DC Points which would get you that particular holiday interval every year.  Your reservation would be automatically booked at the 14-mos window but you would have the option to instead convert the fixed interval to floating Points every year.  If converted, you'd have to use the reservation windows for regular floating points.  Your ownership wouldn't be affected by re-allocations in the Points Chart except in the years that you convert to floating use.

I think that's the gist of it but I'm not certain of the actual DVC premium numbers.  DVC'ers, please don't crucify me - this is just supposed to explain how it works.  

Marty, this option would work out GREAT for us with our typical Memorial Day stays but really, it's never going to happen.  It's a pipe dream.


----------



## Fairwinds

puckmanfl said:


> good evening
> 
> Fairwinds...
> 
> Let's assume you had 12K points... You purchased 1000K points to get to PP and be able to reserve less than 7 days at 13 months... A huge benefit.  You really didn't need the points because you can rent at near MF's.  You just dropped 12K and 6 months later you find out that you would have this benefit anyway...
> 
> Sorry, under this scenario you were "hosed"....
> 
> with regards to the "my dollar is as good as yours argument"..just about every business in America gives perks to loyal and high end customers.  Just take my beloved Tampa Bay Lightning.  When I take Gregster to the game,As a 6 seat club season ticket holder, I get extras at a btter price than the average customer.
> 
> I don't get upgraded on Delta..the millionmile medallions do!!! I respectfully don;t agree withyour take on  Tiered advantages  sorry!!!



Ok, maybe i didn't think that one all the way through regarding the purchase to achieve status. See your point.  I guess I've just always disliked that one aspect of the program regarding loyalty rewards. Upgrades  for a repeat Delta customer who buys in economy along with me does not diminish what I paid for in any way. I know it's the system, and one that benefits me. I was aware of it since my first purchase and I don't think it should be taken away. But in theory I don't agree with it. Better than the delta analogy, I compare advance reservations more to a policy that would allow multiple weeks owners to always have priority villa selection. (And if this already exists please don't tell me:ignore


----------



## Superchief

As a current Premiere Plus member, I find the ability to bank points for up to two years to be a very attractive benefit. This addition initially outweighs the dilution of some of my previous benefits. I may regret this statement later if I find it more difficult to get the DC point reservations I want.

I haven't found the Explorer offerings to be a very good value up to now, but hope they may improve. They do offer an alternative way to use my vacation investment, so I can choose to do something different without spending additional money. 

I have not yet received anything from MVC regarding this program change, so I am curious regarding why they aren't directly communicating with their 'Chairman' level members. Did others receive any notice of these changes?


----------



## bazzap

Superchief said:


> As a current Premiere Plus member, I find the ability to bank points for up to two years to be a very attractive benefit. This addition initially outweighs the dilution of some of my previous benefits. I may regret this statement later if I find it more difficult to get the DC point reservations I want.
> 
> I haven't found the Explorer offerings to be a very good value up to now, but hope they may improve. They do offer an alternative way to use my vacation investment, so I can choose to do something different without spending additional money.
> 
> I have not yet received anything from MVC regarding this program change, so I am curious regarding why they aren't directly communicating with their 'Chairman' level members. Did others receive any notice of these changes?


I agree 100%, in fact I can't think of any changes if I had written the post myself!
I have not received any notice yet either.


----------



## GaryDouglas

This change will cause us to go from Premier to Presidential.  In the plus column, Owner Rental Discounts go from 30% to 35%, Last Minute Reservation Point Discount from 25% 30 days prior to 30% 60 days prior, and Reservation Windows from 13 Mo 7+ nights / 10 Mo 1+ nights to 13 Mo 1+ nights.  In the minus column, it now only takes 4K points for someone to have 13 month reservation rights to our MOC units.  Not a good deal for us.  This is the sort of thing I was afraid of when they rolled out the new program in 2010.  At that point it became apparent to me that all bets were off and worst case scenario, we would get our weeks, everything else is up for grabs.  Marriott has control of the horizontal and the vertical and we are in the outer limits...


----------



## MALC9990

jme said:


> I just wish the highest level, Chairman's Club, would get FREE BREAKFAST x2 wherever it's served in a Marriott hotel.
> 
> Many hotels don't have concierge lounges at all, and others don't open on weekend. We like the Renaissance brand occasionally because of locations, and they do not have free breakfast..... bummer.



Why would status level in the DC Points programme have any relevance to Marriott Hotels ?


----------



## m61376

suzannesimon said:


> I can see I'm going to have a problem now booking my resale week that isn't on the Point system .  I can't book until 12 months out and with all the additional owners being able to book at 13 months, it could get difficult.  You're right:   It will also be a great selling feature to the basic "Owner" level when they find everything is gone by 12 months.



Shouldn't have any impact- weeks are still weeks, and a proportionate number of weeks are held for week reservations. So you're not competing with points owners to reserve your owned week.


----------



## m61376

A couple questions-
No mention has been made of the new "priority" phone number for upper tiers. Will this be a quicker line for booking weeks reservations too, or just for point reservations?

Is it confirmed that the additional 10% Visa discount will be gone? That was a nice incentive.

Glad to get the 13 month 1 day booking option.

Curious to see if, as Sue pontificated, there will be any changes in point allocations.


----------



## thinze3

GregT said:


> ....  If I was 1,000 points away from Executive (or being grandfathered as a Premier Plus at 6,500 points), I would consider buying the points to achieve the status.   I think 1+ day reservations are that powerful, when used in combination with a legacy week at my home resort. ....
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



So, imagine currently being only 75 points away from Premier.  That would be me.


----------



## puckmanfl

good morning....
No clear evidence tha the 45% Visa discount is gone....

I am not sure that the "not to be combined with other discounts" clause is applicable here...

we shall see...


----------



## SueDonJ

puckmanfl said:


> good morning....
> No clear evidence tha the 45% Visa discount is gone....
> 
> I am not sure that the "not to be combined with other discounts" clause is applicable here...
> 
> we shall see...



I hope it's not gone!  But something is definitely different ...

Here's the current version of the status tier chart that's linked at the marriottvacationclub.com DC Pricing Information page; the version that will be effective on 4/30/15 is in Greg's pdf link in the first post here.  In the current version Footnote 2 for the cash discounts says, "Additional 10% discount if purchased using Marriott Rewards Visa"; in the new version it says, "Cannot be combined with other discounts."

I have a bad feeling about this but like you said, we'll see.  Fingers are crossed.  

Does anyone have any other working links for the current "Benefits At A Glance" chart?  All of my links from past Insider newsletters and my-vacationclub.com sources are now coming up as blank pages.  (*See this thread.)


----------



## TRAVELING FOOL

We just returned from a presentation here at SurfWatch. Fortunately I had read about their new Tier level here on Tug and knew they were going to try to upgrade us to Executive level. We were 1725 points away from this level. They tried to sell us 2,000 pts. @ 9.73/pt., which was $19,951 out of pocket. This was using the Encore pkg we had purchased at MOW last year and not giving us 75,000 MRP. Maintenance fee would be 940. I began thinking of what I could purchase resale with this money, even though I could not use it in the destination program. We have received some terrific  certificates and getaways from Interval in the past. All without required maintenance fees. Ultimately we declined and hope to continue to make the most out of what we have.


----------



## GregT

TRAVELING FOOL said:


> We just returned from a presentation here at SurfWatch. Fortunately I had read about their new Tier level here on Tug and knew they were going to try to upgrade us to Executive level. We were 1725 points away from this level. They tried to sell us 2,000 pts. @ 9.73/pt., which was $19,951 out of pocket. This was using the Encore pkg we had purchased at MOW last year and not giving us 75,000 MRP. Maintenance fee would be 940. I began thinking of what I could purchase resale with this money, even though I could not use it in the destination program. We have received some terrific  certificates and getaways from Interval in the past. All without required maintenance fees. Ultimately we declined and hope to continue to make the most out of what we have.



That's interesting -- was their primary pitch around Executive Level the 1+ day reservations 13 months out, or did they highlight something else?

I will be curious to see what they highlight to each level when they try to sell the upgrade.

I still think Marriott needs an Uber level to try to get someone to reach 25,000 - 30,000 points.  Not sure what that is though.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Fasttr

GregT said:


> I still think Marriott needs an *Uber* level to try to get someone to reach 25,000 - 30,000 points.  Not sure what that is though.



I think the *Uber* level would get you free car rides to restaurants and activities outside the resort.


----------



## SueDonJ

Fasttr said:


> I think the *Uber* level would get you free car rides to restaurants and activities outside the resort.



HA!  Hahahaha!


----------



## SueDonJ

GregT said:


> That's interesting -- was their primary pitch around Executive Level the 1+ day reservations 13 months out, or did they highlight something else?
> 
> I will be curious to see what they highlight to each level when they try to sell the upgrade.
> 
> I still think Marriott needs an Uber level to try to get someone to reach 25,000 - 30,000 points.  Not sure what that is though.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



At that price level I think MVW would be more likely to pitch Ritz-Carlton Club?


----------



## alchook

TRAVELING FOOL said:


> Maintenance fee would be 940.



That's the part I don't understand. You can likely rent 2000 points for $1000-1200. Why spend nearly $20K when your maintenance fee will be almost what it costs to rent?

To put it another way, Mountainside maintenance fees are about $1200 a year. A good ski week requires 6900 points, or more than $3200 in maintenance fees.

Something doesn't add up.


----------



## GregT

SueDonJ said:


> At that price level I think MVW would be more likely to pitch Ritz-Carlton Club?



You may be right -- but what is striking to me about this change is that it is targeted towards lower levels of points -- ie, getting people to upgrade to 7,000 points.

There isn't anything in here that is compelling to get someone to buy more -- Ritz Carlton is already included.   Perhaps that is simply the pitch -- to effectively use RC, you need to buy all those points.  And there really isn't a usage benefit, it's just more access to the luxury properties.

Best,

Greg


----------



## TRAVELING FOOL

@ Greg, they kept stressing the advantage of the 13 months 1+ nights reservation window, as opposed to the 10 mo 1+ nights with select. If I have to pay almost 19,000 for this, then maybe I'm in the wrong system! Eventually I look for the tier level to be increased again. There seems to be no end to this!


----------



## Fasttr

It does appear the expansion of the tiers is aimed at getting existing owners to buy more points in order to get to that next "great" level, which is seemingly at least somewhat incongruent to this quote from their latest annual report....  



> ...approximately 60 percent of our sales of vacation ownership products were to our owners. However, we are
> focused on growing our tour flow cost effectively as we pivot to more first-time buyer tours and work towards achieving our long term goal of selling to an equal mix of new buyers and existing buyers. This strategy includes an emphasis on new sales channels concentrated on first-time buyers.



This quote seemed to be consistent with recent reports where TUGgers were told they were not able to take a tour because they had not purchased anything in X amount of time/tours.  

The only correlation I see in having these new tiers and their supposed new focus on new customers is the first premium tier (Select) now will be at 4000 points, where previously the first premium tier was at 6500 points.  Previously, their initial pitch seemed to be targeted at 3500 points, so one would assume their go to pitch now will be at 4000 points so that you can come into the program at Select status.  That incremental 500 points per sale is all the benefit I can see which could be argued as something focused on new customers.

One would assume they will again be aggressively marketing to get existing owners to hear the pitch surrounding the benefits of the new tiers....and hopefully those of us who like to rake in the MR points as a result will find the offers to be aggressive in the quantity of MR points being offered.


----------



## ilene13

I would hope that the new Chairman's tier would give me hotel discounts!!  We never seem to stay anywhere that the codes work!!!


----------



## puckmanfl

good afternoon....


regarding the 45% Visa rate... I put out an inquiry to my Guru... I expect an answer shortly...

will report...

My money states, it will still be active... 

we shall see...


----------



## Vacation1

> One would assume they will again be aggressively marketing to get existing owners to hear the pitch surrounding the benefits of the new tiers....and hopefully those of us who like to rake in the MR points as a result will find the offers to be aggressive in the quantity of MR points being offered.



Would have to agree - am staying at Imperial Palms later this month and have been offered 30,000 MRP for 75 minute presentation and tour at Lakeshore Reserve - we don't usually do the presentations but this was too tempting not to.


----------



## dioxide45

I wonder if this will have any impact on Marriott bulk banks in II. When Starwood made some changes to SVN allowing for banking of StarOptions along with some other changes allowing members to reserve single nights with StarOptions, there was a significant drop in Starwood bulk banks.

I suppose the impact on Marriott II deposits might not be as impacted since they have allowed single night reservations at 10 months for all owners since DC inception.


----------



## taxare

I have to agree with Puck. Last year I bought resale points to achieve PP. I'm not feeling the love from the new Chairman's level. I also agree with one of Sue's first comments about the complexity. As someone who just celebrated their 60th BD, I can't imagine explaining all of this to my kids, or believe they will have any interest in understanding it like we do (try explaining the Puck Trick to a 28 year old by texting!) I have truly enjoyed my Marriott ownership, but this time I'm feeling like they have diluted the PP level and differentiated perks associated with it.


----------



## dioxide45

jme said:


> I just wish the highest level, Chairman's Club, would get FREE BREAKFAST x2 wherever it's served in a Marriott hotel.
> 
> Many hotels don't have concierge lounges at all, and others don't open on weekend. We like the Renaissance brand occasionally because of locations, and they do not have free breakfast..... bummer.



I do think that they could provide at least Platinum Elite status in the MR program to the Chariman's Club owners. This would get them pretty much as close to what you. I think outside of that it would be hard to implement as the hotels really don't know your MVCI ownership status, but they do know your Elite status in Marriott Rewards. The problem is that most Marriott Hotel Resorts don't provide breakfast for Platinum Elites.


----------



## GregT

taxare said:


> I have to agree with Puck. Last year I bought* resale points *to achieve PP. I'm not feeling the love from the new Chairman's level.



Good work -- I'm glad you didn't write a really big check to get the PP level.  I understand the frustration, but glad you saved yourself a few bucks.

I agree with your comments on Chairman -- I just don't see it as a real value add.

Best,

Greg


----------



## ilene13

dioxide45 said:


> I do think that they could provide at least Platinum Elite status in the MR program to the Chariman's Club owners. This would get them pretty much as close to what you. I think outside of that it would be hard to implement as the hotels really don't know your MVCI ownership status, but they do know your Elite status in Marriott Rewards. The problem is that most Marriott Hotel Resorts don't provide breakfast for Platinum Elites.



That sounds like a good idea to me.


----------



## thinze3

dioxide45 said:


> I wonder if this will have any impact on Marriott bulk banks in II. When Starwood made some changes to SVN allowing for banking of StarOptions along with some other changes allowing members to reserve single nights with StarOptions, there was a significant drop in Starwood bulk banks.
> 
> I suppose the impact on Marriott II deposits might not be as impacted since they have allowed single night reservations at 10 months for all owners since DC inception.



I would venture to be that, yes, it will have an impact.  Marriott will continue to squeeze weeks owners (who have not yet joined the DC) and II. 

Although II won't admit it, everything has changed with the Marriott exchange system within II. Marriott only releases, or allows II to release, great weeks for exchange at the 60-90 day range nowadays. This was obviously done to help fulfill DC members exchange requests.

Gone is the old system of getting great exchanges at 13 and/or 12 months out with II - no matter when the week is deposited.


----------



## StevenTing

I'll be in Ko Olina in 4 days And am now looking forward to attend the sales presentation so I can ask them pointed questions.  It will be interesting to hear the responses.  I hope I get my usual guy who is normally straight up with me.


----------



## GreenTea

thinze3 said:


> I would venture to be that, yes, it will have an impact.  Marriott will continue to squeeze weeks owners (who have not yet joined the DC) and II.
> 
> Although II won't admit it, everything has changed with the Marriott exchange system within II. Marriott only releases, or allows II to release, great weeks for exchange at the 60-90 day range nowadays. This was obviously done to help fulfill DC members exchange requests.
> 
> Gone is the old system of getting great exchanges at 13 and/or 12 months out with II - no matter when the week is deposited.



If they are trying to squeeze the pre 2010 owners to enroll, why not just open it all week owners?


----------



## thinze3

GreenTea said:


> If they are trying to squeeze the pre 2010 owners to enroll, why not just open it all week owners?



Because that would add value to weeks.    Marriott wants to sell you points and steal your good weeks.  One way to do that is make less good inventory available to II.  Virtually 75% all of Marriott ownership weeks are now worthless.  

Granted, based on the industry in general, this may have been the ultimate fate regardless of Marriott's implementation of the DC program.


----------



## SueDonJ

thinze3 said:


> Because that would add value to weeks.    Marriott wants to sell you points and steal your good weeks.  One way to do that is make less good inventory available to II. ...



This is way too over the top for me.  Marriott's not _stealing_ anything - they can't get access to owned Weeks unless/until an Owner _chooses_ to exchange the purchased Week for some other usage option, or unless an Owner doesn't follow the rules for reserving Weeks.

Or, if by "stealing" you mean that they're raiding II coffers (nefariously?) in order to satisfy DC Members' exchange request, why shouldn't they??  DC Members bought into MVW's exchange system - they're as entitled to exchange inventory as Weeks Owners.



thinze3 said:


> Virtually 75% all of Marriott ownership weeks are now worthless.  Granted, based on the industry in general, this may have been the ultimate fate regardless of Marriott's implementation of the DC program.



I disagree that 75% of Weeks are "worthless."  "Worth less" maybe, but like you say that's the industry in general.  It actually appears to me that MVW is doing more than most other timeshare companies with respect to Weeks resale value, because they're actively buying back/brokering internal resales (with some Weeks realizing more value from MVW than from the external resale market.)

Where would we be if MVW hadn't implemented the DC?  Certainly the company wouldn't be doing as good as it is, which in turn would harm all Weeks Owners and DC Members.


----------



## SueDonJ

GreenTea said:


> If they are trying to squeeze the pre 2010 owners to enroll, why not just open it all week owners?



I don't think MVW's focus has been on enrolling Weeks for quite some time.  For one thing enough have been enrolled already to jump-start and fuel the DC exchange system, for another they have access to all Weeks exchanged for other usage options without opening enrollment beyond the current eligibility rules.  Their focus is IMO where it should be, on selling DC Points.


----------



## SueDonJ

StevenTing said:


> I'll be in Ko Olina in 4 days And am now looking forward to attend the sales presentation so I can ask them pointed questions.  It will be interesting to hear the responses.  I hope I get my usual guy who is normally straight up with me.



I think if you give them enough lead time you can request that a presentation be scheduled with a particular sales rep.  If I were you I'd call prior to getting onsite.  Good luck!


----------



## SueDonJ

dioxide45 said:


> I do think that they could provide at least Platinum Elite status in the MR program to the Chariman's Club owners. This would get them pretty much as close to what you. I think outside of that it would be hard to implement as the hotels really don't know your MVCI ownership status, but they do know your Elite status in Marriott Rewards. The problem is that most Marriott Hotel Resorts don't provide breakfast for Platinum Elites.



They provide MR status on a limited basis as DC Points sales incentives so the precedence is there, but do we know if those incentives cost them anything in terms of compensation to MI?  That may be why they've never included permanent MR status with any Weeks/Points purchases.


----------



## MALC9990

SueDonJ said:


> They provide MR status on a limited basis as DC Points sales incentives so the precedence is there, but do we know if those incentives cost them anything in terms of compensation to MI?  That may be why they've never included permanent MR status with any Weeks/Points purchases.



I think all those road warriors building up their lifetime plat status over the years would be horrified if the same status was to be simply handed out by MVCI to high status owners. I would expect that earning elite nights  for TS stays costs something as it is and I think the less we say about it the better just in case we lose it.


----------



## ilene13

MALC9990 said:


> I think all those road warriors building up their lifetime plat status over the years would be horrified if the same status was to be simply handed out by MVCI to high status owners. I would expect that earning elite nights  for TS stays costs something as it is and I think the less we say about it the better just in case we lose it.



I understand what you are saying, but we have our airline and Marriott status from pleasure trips--- which we pay for, as opposed to business travel.  I'd love a few  more perks.


----------



## kds4

dioxide45 said:


> I do think that they could provide at least Platinum Elite status in the MR program to the Chariman's Club owners. This would get them pretty much as close to what you. I think outside of that it would be hard to implement as the hotels really don't know your MVCI ownership status, but they do know your Elite status in Marriott Rewards. The problem is that most Marriott Hotel Resorts don't provide breakfast for Platinum Elites.



Assuming this coin has two sides, if MI were to offer Chairman's Club level owners Platinum status (ie. the lounge access/free breakfast referred to by JME), couldn't/shouldn't MVCI reciprocate for the say 'Lifetime Platinum' level Marriott Rewards members (a similarly small group in the Marriott universe) who are MVCI owners? Perhaps a resort credit, free drinks/appetizer/dessert voucher at an onsite eatery, or some other 'arrival gift' in the unit?


----------



## jme

thinze3 said:


> Virtually 75% all of Marriott ownership weeks are now worthless.



Disagree.  Worthless in and of itself, or worthless if you wish to sell it?  Did you buy it as an investment?  What about this novel idea: if you purchased it to occupy and/or trade, and continue to do so for decades?  Funny way to value a timeshare, imho. 

That's what we purchased 16 years ago-----TIME with family at certain resorts during certain seasons. It's worked for us and we're still getting nothing less than what we bought.  As the commercial says, "priceless" when we consider our kids' experiences and ours.  

I have done something far worse with every vehicle. After a few years they are DEFINITELY worthless, and they cost far more than a timeshare week, but who complains?  We ditch the vehicles and buy another one, and yet we don't compare cars with timeshares. Perhaps we should.  Maybe, just maybe, we get our money's worth with both. I paid $70,000+ for my wife's Lexus and we're still driving it. I knew I couldn't sell it for more someday, quite the contrary.  Is that much different?

I never once believed I was buying something with inherent value other than usage and enjoyment for my family.  I would have been fooling myself otherwise. What was promised, I'm still getting, and still loving it.  It's been a good ride with the timeshares too, and perhaps it's even better. We have VERY positive cash flow if we rent out the timeshares now... why would I wish to sell them???


----------



## Fasttr

jme said:


> Disagree.  Worthless in and of itself, or worthless if you wish to sell it?  Did you buy it as an investment?  What about this novel idea: if you purchased it to occupy and/or trade, and continue to do so for decades?  Funny way to value a timeshare, imho.
> 
> That's what we purchased 16 years ago-----TIME with family at certain resorts during certain seasons. It's worked for us and we're still getting nothing less than what we bought.  As the commercial says, "priceless" when we consider our kids' experiences and ours.
> 
> I have done something far worse with every vehicle. After a few years they are DEFINITELY worthless, and they cost far more than a timeshare week, but who complains?  We ditch the vehicles and buy another one, and yet we don't compare cars with timeshares. Perhaps we should.  Maybe, just maybe, we get our money's worth with both. I paid $70,000+ for my wife's Lexus and we're still driving it. I knew I couldn't sell it for more someday, quite the contrary.  Is that much different?
> 
> I never once believed I was buying something with inherent value other than usage and enjoyment for my family.  I would have been fooling myself otherwise. What was promised, I'm still getting, and still loving it.  It's been a good ride with the timeshares too, and perhaps it's even better. We have VERY positive cash flow if we rent out the timeshares now... why would I wish to sell them???



Your comments reminded me of THIS great jme post....one of your best.


----------



## ilene13

jme said:


> Disagree.  Worthless in and of itself, or worthless if you wish to sell it?  Did you buy it as an investment?  What about this novel idea: if you purchased it to occupy and/or trade, and continue to do so for decades?  Funny way to value a timeshare, imho.
> 
> That's what we purchased 16 years ago-----TIME with family at certain resorts during certain seasons. It's worked for us and we're still getting nothing less than what we bought.  As the commercial says, "priceless" when we consider our kids' experiences and ours.
> 
> I have done something far worse with every vehicle. After a few years they are DEFINITELY worthless, and they cost far more than a timeshare week, but who complains?  We ditch the vehicles and buy another one, and yet we don't compare cars with timeshares. Perhaps we should.  Maybe, just maybe, we get our money's worth with both. I paid $70,000+ for my wife's Lexus and we're still driving it. I knew I couldn't sell it for more someday, quite the contrary.  Is that much different?
> 
> I never once believed I was buying something with inherent value other than usage and enjoyment for my family.  I would have been fooling myself otherwise. What was promised, I'm still getting, and still loving it.  It's been a good ride with the timeshares too, and perhaps it's even better. We have VERY positive cash flow if we rent out the timeshares now... why would I wish to sell them???



Great post


----------



## GregT

Fasttr said:


> Your comments reminded me of THIS great jme post....one of your best.



Agreed -- that was a great post, thank you for linking it!!


----------



## hawk5

Great Post! Couldn't agree more!


----------



## SMB1

puckmanfl said:


> good afternoon....
> 
> 
> regarding the 45% Visa rate... I put out an inquiry to my Guru... I expect an answer shortly...
> 
> will report...
> 
> My money states, it will still be active...
> 
> we shall see...



Puck, Any word from your guru on this?


----------



## puckmanfl

good evening

Yes....

she said she wasn't sure... and that nobody in corporate knows...

I don't believe that's a good sign


----------



## skyequeen

Just returned from 10 days off the internet to read Greg T's post and chart.  This is good news for many, but as people who were already Premier Plus I can tell you popular Platinum places don't have availability 13 months out with points like with owner weeks.  Until owners give weeks up, which is not 13 months out, you have to wait.  Now there will just be more of us trying.  So I'm frustrated.  The other benefits don't make up for it in my opinion.  Am I missing something?


----------



## puckmanfl

good evening

Just snagged 2/22/16-2/27/16 at Summit Watch at the 13 month mark...  Interestingly, January wasn't open till the 11.5 month mark..
very bizzarre!!!

you are correct though, more competition with the new rules...


----------



## JohnB

*Premier worth $9500?*

So if I can buy 750 points from Marriott (been told Marriott might sell this low of a block), I become Premier or the new level at 6500 points if I do so before level required increases.Main benefit for me would be ability to book 13 mos. out for less than 7days and access to Ritz properties. I have been told total drive out cost would be around 9500. I have a legacy Maui week I hardly ever release so I would be renting points and using them for long weekends. Worth it to move up?


----------



## TheTimeTraveler

JohnB said:


> So if I can buy 750 points from Marriott (been told Marriott might sell this low of a block), I become Premier or the new level at 6500 points if I do so before level required increases.Main benefit for me would be ability to book 13 mos. out for less than 7days and access to Ritz properties. I have been told total drive out cost would be around 9500. I have a legacy Maui week I hardly ever release so I would be renting points and using them for long weekends. Worth it to move up?





I think it's an individual determination as to whether the extra expense is really worth it or not, however I would be very surprised if they would allow a purchase of anything less than 1,000 points.



.


----------



## Superchief

*When does MVC plan to inform us of the change?*

I just received the latest MVC Insider Newsletter and there is no mention of the upcoming changes. I find it interesting that this change is coming soon but they still haven't informed owners. There is also nothing on the website that I can find. When do they plan to tell us?


----------



## skyequeen

Just got off the phone with DC to let go a night I didn't need after making airline reservations for November.  Asked about new tiers.  Was told agent knew training was going on but she was not yet in a group being trained and didn't now any details.


----------



## NJDave

GregT said:


> [I
> Here is the info on the new levels.   They've created four new levels:
> 
> Select (4,000 - 6,999 points)
> Executive (7,000 - 9,999 points)
> Presidential (10,000 - 14,999 points)
> Chairman's Club (15,000 points +)



What will this do to club dues?  I have 5,300 points and will now be at the Select level.  Prior to the change, I was at the lowest level and paid lower dues.


----------



## jeepie

*A couple of data points...*



Superchief said:


> I just received the latest MVC Insider Newsletter and there is no mention of the upcoming changes. I find it interesting that this change is coming soon but they still haven't informed owners. There is also nothing on the website that I can find. When do they plan to tell us?


I spoke with an owner services supervisor this week, who said they are only giving the VOAs limited information so far. He had no information to share. When I mentioned the new tiers, he agreed. But, when I asked about improved banking terms, and other changes, he said, you know more about the changes than we do right now.

Separately, I was invited to a sales presentation next week during our stay. I inquired as to whether we would be given details about the new tiers, if we agree to attend. Here is the response:


"I have checked with our Sales Manager here at xxxxxx, and yyyyyy confirmed that the new ownership tiers that you refer to have already been rolled out, and they are currently a focus of the sales presentations.

Let me know if I can schedule an appointment for you."
---------------
I will not be attending. Cheers.


----------



## windje2000

jeepie said:


> Snip
> 
> Separately, I was invited to a sales presentation next week during our stay. I inquired as to whether we would be given details about the new tiers, if we agree to attend. Here is the response:
> 
> 
> "I have checked with our Sales Manager here at xxxxxx, and yyyyyy confirmed that the new ownership tiers that you refer to have already been rolled out, and they are currently a focus of the sales presentations.
> 
> Let me know if I can schedule an appointment for you."
> ---------------
> I will not be attending. Cheers.




Same here -  got the call 'sign up for a presentation for next week and we'll tell you all about the exciting new developments in the destination club.  Don't you want to learn all about these new tiers of ownership?'

I think this is mostly just bait (in the absence of new resorts) to get butts in the seats and get people thinking there's an advantage buying up to the next level.  The DClub product is getting a little stale.


----------



## Venter

TheTimeTraveler said:


> I think it's an individual determination as to whether the extra expense is really worth it or not, however I would be very surprised if they would allow a purchase of anything less than 1,000 points.
> 
> 
> 
> .



Also have Tuggers not collectively worked out that anything less than 1500 point will be difficult to sell again due to the T&C's? Don't know why I have that thought in my head.


----------



## Fasttr

Venter said:


> Also have Tuggers not collectively worked out that anything less than 1500 point will be difficult to sell again due to the T&C's? Don't know why I have that thought in my head.



Per the Trust Docs....A Base Interest is 6 BI's or 1500 points, but if you are a Legacy Enrolled Owner, a Base Interest is only 2 BI's or 500 points.


----------



## StevenTing

Did my presentation yesterday day.  Focus was on the next level that you would qualify for.  It was clear that I knew more about the program that the rep.  Not his fault.   He kept trying to sell me on the 13 month 1day + reservations, which I already receive for being executive.   There was also focus on the extended banking, but since. I always borrow, it was not relevant for us.    He also mentioned the 60 day, 30% discount and was trying to describe the puck trick.    Then the last was the introduction of the bundle packages.  

60 minutes in and out.


----------



## GreenTea

StevenTing said:


> Did my presentation yesterday day.  Focus was on the next level that you would qualify for.  It was clear that I knew more about the program that the rep.  Not his fault.   He kept trying to sell me on the 13 month 1day + reservations, which I already receive for being executive.   There was also focus on the extended banking, but since. I always borrow, it was not relevant for us.    He also mentioned the 60 day, 30% discount and was trying to describe the puck trick.    Then the last was the introduction of the bundle packages.
> 
> 60 minutes in and out.



What did you receive for attending?


----------



## StevenTing

GreenTea said:


> What did you receive for attending?



Offer was 10K Marriott Points, $75 gift cards, or a bunch of other stuff.  We ended up taking the Fia Fia tickets for $30 each as that essentially saves us $130 on something we were planning to do any ways.  I'd post a picture of what was offered but I don't believe I can attach items.


----------



## Time Travelers

*Special Marriott Event in Our City regarding New DC Tiers*

We have received a phone call to attend a Marriott's Owner Event in our city.  We are located nowhere near a Marriott Vacation Club Resort and do not have a Marriott stay booked until July.   I do know for sure it is being hosted by Marriott as we are communicating by phone and email with a Sales Associate at a Marriott Vacation Club we stayed at a couple of years ago, so it is not some scam from some outside company.  Also, they are offering the normal Marriott perks for attending.  It is being held at one of the nicest Marriott hotels in our area.   

Has anyone else been invited to and/or attended a "Special Marriott Event" in their city?   They told us it is specifically to discuss the new tier levels and what the new levels will mean to us.


----------



## SueDonJ

Time Travelers said:


> We have received a phone call to attend a Marriott's Owner Event in our city.  We are located nowhere near a Marriott Vacation Club Resort and do not have a Marriott stay booked until July.   I do know for sure it is being hosted by Marriott as we are communicating by phone and email with a Sales Associate at a Marriott Vacation Club we stayed at a couple of years ago, so it is not some scam from some outside company.  Also, they are offering the normal Marriott perks for attending.  It is being held at one of the nicest Marriott hotels in our area.
> 
> Has anyone else been invited to and/or attended a "Special Marriott Event" in their city?   They told us it is specifically to discuss the new tier levels and what the new levels will mean to us.



Since the DC inception I've been invited to a few given by a Boston Custom House rep but the timing hasn't ever worked for us to go.  There have been other posts on TUG about different locations but they all seem to be run by knowledgeable reps with good reputations.

As long as you're aware that its main purpose is a sales presentation for DC Points then there's no harm in going and you could learn something new.


----------



## Superchief

StevenTing said:


> Did my presentation yesterday day.  Focus was on the next level that you would qualify for.  It was clear that I knew more about the program that the rep.  Not his fault.   He kept trying to sell me on the 13 month 1day + reservations, which I already receive for being executive.   There was also focus on the extended banking, but since. I always borrow, it was not relevant for us.    He also mentioned the 60 day, 30% discount and was trying to describe the puck trick.    Then the last was the introduction of the bundle packages.
> 
> 60 minutes in and out.



I guess I won't be invited because we currently qualify for Chairman's level. We will be in Hilton Head in September so it will be interesting to see if we receive an invitation.


----------



## Fairwinds

Superchief said:


> I guess I won't be invited because we currently qualify for Chairman's level. We will be in Hilton Head in September so it will be interesting to see if we receive an invitation.



We are at Surfwatch now and they are pushing the presentations more than in my recent experiance. they put us in Tide Mark 5th floor unit. This is a very nice resort and a perfect villa. Beautiful view. Winter in HH can be risky and this years gamble didn't pay as well as other years but it beats NH.


----------



## dansimms

*II Destinations Annual Fee*

Looking at the new Tiers, I wouldn't be surprised to see a rate increase on the annual fee we pay / II Membership. I could see them distinguish between 3 grouping now versus the present 2 groupings.  Under 4000 DPs, 4000 to 6999, and 7000 and up.  We shall see at the end of this year.


----------



## StevenTing

Superchief said:


> I guess I won't be invited because we currently qualify for Chairman's level. We will be in Hilton Head in September so it will be interesting to see if we receive an invitation.




I didn't wait to be invited.  I went and asked for a presentation as I Ko Olina is generally good about getting you on your way.  Like I said, 60 minutes in and out and it was early morning on our third day at the resort.

Just because you're chairman doesn't mean they will dismiss you.  I went in there with the intention of clarifying what I did not understand.  But if you've read this thread, you'll already be ahead of the game.


----------



## SeaDoc

Greg, actually I think these new tiers are terrific and Marriott VCI did not throw those of us with Premier/Premier Plus status 'under the bus'.  In fact, they literally gave Premier ownership 1 day at a time 13 months out by upgrading them to Executive status - that is huge for scheduling vacations on a day by day basis.  For Premier Plus/Chairman's Club the 24 month banking is also huge - I can bank and borrow an enormous amount of points to take some amazing vacations.  I am even more glad I am in this club... The Ritz Carlton Club Properties are simply beautiful... Great job MVCI!!!


----------



## SeaDoc

It's a sales presentation, but if you enjoy the process - you may learn something new... They are called road shows and different properties in the MVCI system go to different areas of the country to touch base with owners and those that might be interested in joining or adding to their portfolio... Have fun... Remember, it's time share, not brain surgery...


----------



## SeaDoc

Indeed, the destination club values given to weeks are deeded and many of these weeks are permanently placed in the trust.  I can not fathom how they could legally alter these values.


----------



## SeaDoc

That is indeed correct - act quickly...


----------



## SeaDoc

puckmanfl said:


> good evening
> 
> Fairwinds...
> 
> Let's assume you had 12K points... You purchased 1000K points to get to PP and be able to reserve less than 7 days at 13 months... A huge benefit.  You really didn't need the points because you can rent at near MF's.  You just dropped 12K and 6 months later you find out that you would have this benefit anyway...
> 
> Sorry, under this scenario you were "hosed"....
> 
> with regards to the "my dollar is as good as yours argument"..just about every business in America gives perks to loyal and high end customers.  Just take my beloved Tampa Bay Lightning.  When I take Gregster to the game,As a 6 seat club season ticket holder, I get extras at a btter price than the average customer.
> 
> I don't get upgraded on Delta..the millionmile medallions do!!! I respectfully don;t agree withyour take on  Tiered advantages  sorry!!!


One issue you are not considering - presently it would take 1000 points to get to PP, then auto upgrade to CC in April 2015.  In May 2015, it becomes a 3000 point requirement to a 15000 point level - a $25K price increase.  We don't know yet what benefits will becoming the way of CC and frankly, I would kick myself for not doing it now...


----------



## SeaDoc

TRAVELING FOOL said:


> We just returned from a presentation here at SurfWatch. Fortunately I had read about their new Tier level here on Tug and knew they were going to try to upgrade us to Executive level. We were 1725 points away from this level. They tried to sell us 2,000 pts. @ 9.73/pt., which was $19,951 out of pocket. This was using the Encore pkg we had purchased at MOW last year and not giving us 75,000 MRP. Maintenance fee would be 940. I began thinking of what I could purchase resale with this money, even though I could not use it in the destination program. We have received some terrific  certificates and getaways from Interval in the past. All without required maintenance fees. Ultimately we declined and hope to continue to make the most out of what we have.


That was a good deal... I would have taken it... Going price per point is $12.24...


----------



## SeaDoc

taxare said:


> I have to agree with Puck. Last year I bought resale points to achieve PP. I'm not feeling the love from the new Chairman's level. I also agree with one of Sue's first comments about the complexity. As someone who just celebrated their 60th BD, I can't imagine explaining all of this to my kids, or believe they will have any interest in understanding it like we do (try explaining the Puck Trick to a 28 year old by texting!) I have truly enjoyed my Marriott ownership, but this time I'm feeling like they have diluted the PP level and differentiated perks associated with it.


My kids are very computer literate, love to ski, and love this program - they can take only days off at a time and with the 30% discounts for PP within 60 days it has been a terrific value added product... By the way, they hated the weeks program... They use my sign-on and I get free pics of their vacationing in return (if they don't, I change my password) :>)


----------



## SeaDoc

jme said:


> Disagree.  Worthless in and of itself, or worthless if you wish to sell it?  Did you buy it as an investment?  What about this novel idea: if you purchased it to occupy and/or trade, and continue to do so for decades?  Funny way to value a timeshare, imho.
> 
> That's what we purchased 16 years ago-----TIME with family at certain resorts during certain seasons. It's worked for us and we're still getting nothing less than what we bought.  As the commercial says, "priceless" when we consider our kids' experiences and ours.
> 
> I have done something far worse with every vehicle. After a few years they are DEFINITELY worthless, and they cost far more than a timeshare week, but who complains?  We ditch the vehicles and buy another one, and yet we don't compare cars with timeshares. Perhaps we should.  Maybe, just maybe, we get our money's worth with both. I paid $70,000+ for my wife's Lexus and we're still driving it. I knew I couldn't sell it for more someday, quite the contrary.  Is that much different?
> 
> I never once believed I was buying something with inherent value other than usage and enjoyment for my family.  I would have been fooling myself otherwise. What was promised, I'm still getting, and still loving it.  It's been a good ride with the timeshares too, and perhaps it's even better. We have VERY positive cash flow if we rent out the timeshares now... why would I wish to sell them???


Beautifully stated... As an owner since 1986, my family has had some wonderful times that WE WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD, if I had not owned... THE PROGRAM NOW IS EXCEPTIONAL because I can now take vacations at properties that would have cost me a $500000 to own... The Ritz Carlton Clubs which initially started in 1999 had many properties costing in the millions... Amazes me how people don't realize what they have...


----------



## GaryDouglas

*Redistributive Change*



SeaDoc said:


> Greg, actually I think these new tiers are terrific and Marriott VCI did not throw those of us with Premier/Premier Plus status 'under the bus'.  In fact, they literally gave Premier ownership 1 day at a time 13 months out by upgrading them to Executive status - that is huge for scheduling vacations on a day by day basis.  For Premier Plus/Chairman's Club the 24 month banking is also huge - I can bank and borrow an enormous amount of points to take some amazing vacations.  I am even more glad I am in this club... The Ritz Carlton Club Properties are simply beautiful... Great job MVCI!!!



What MVCI gives to some, they take away from others.  I alluded to this in a previous post in this thread.  For points users, it used to take 6,500 points to reserve at 13 months, now it only takes 4,000 points.  That means we (those that have sufficient points or multi-week legacy owners) now have more competition to get our reservation of choice.  BTW, this is what "Redistributive Change" feels like...


----------



## SeaDoc

GaryDouglas said:


> What MVCI gives to some, they take away from others.  I alluded to this in a previous post in this thread.  For points users, it used to take 6,500 points to reserve at 13 months, now it only takes 4,000 points.  That means we (those that have sufficient points or multi-week legacy owners) now have more competition to get our reservation of choice.  BTW, this is what "Redistributive Change" feels like...


But you now have 1 day at a 13 months out - that is a far better deal then those who have to do 7 day minimum 13 months out - everyone wins in this... The only downside I see for Marriott is once you're a CC member - unless you take African safaris every year, I don't see the upside in purchasing more...


----------



## Superchief

I am anxious to learn the details regarding the extended point banking periods. As a Chairman level, I hope I am able to bank my 2014 points to 2016, since I still have a lot left that are uncommitted. I hope the new terms apply to 2014 points.


----------



## GaryDouglas

SeaDoc said:


> But you now have 1 day at a 13 months out - that is a far better deal then those who have to do 7 day minimum 13 months out - everyone wins in this... The only downside I see for Marriott is once you're a CC member - unless you take African safaris every year, I don't see the upside in purchasing more...



Like most owners at MOC, we bought to occupy.  In the last 10 years, we only missed going once.  For us, the most important thing is getting the week that we want.  We already have ocean front dialed in, so time is the only variable that is important.  We have typically gone in May, one of our preferred months, but as the grandkids get older, we will be going during the summer, more and more.  In the past we have reserved in June and July without problems, booking at 13 months.  We won't know for sure until we get there, but my crystal ball says it will be worse for us because of MVCI's relaxation of the 13 month rule...


----------



## jeepie

Superchief said:


> I am anxious to learn the details regarding the extended point banking periods. As a Chairman level, I hope I am able to bank my 2014 points to 2016, since I still have a lot left that are uncommitted. I hope the new terms apply to 2014 points.


Please clarify. If they are 2014 points, are they already banked into 2015? And, are you hoping to be able to extend the use of these banked points until the end of 2016? In essence, are you asking for the Chairman benefits to be retroactive? I don't know the answer, but am also curious.


----------



## SeaDoc

jeepie said:


> Please clarify. If they are 2014 points, are they already banked into 2015? And, are you hoping to be able to extend the use of these banked points until the end of 2016? In essence, are you asking for the Chairman benefits to be retroactive? I don't know the answer, but am also curious.


There will be no retroactive options... All options start on the 30th of April 2015 moving forward...


----------



## SueDonJ

SeaDoc said:


> There will be no retroactive options... All options start on the 30th of April 2015 moving forward...



Considering that MVW has grandfathered other changes/adjustments to the DC Program when it appeared there would be no chance of grandfathering, I wouldn't assume anything.  Unless you have something official you'd like to share?

Superchief, if you're talking about what jeepie has said, 2014 Points banked into 2015 already, then trying to get them banked further into 2016 would in effect be two banking transactions for the same Points which the rules don't allow.  If after 4/30 MVW doesn't allow your scenario (which none of us knows for certain yet if they will) I think that multiple transactions disallowance would be the reason rather than no grandfathering.  We'll see.  Like you I'm also most interested in the two-year banking but when the changes go into effect I'll be working with 2015 Points banked ahead through 2017.


----------



## SueDonJ

SeaDoc, can we ask you to use the "quote" function when replying?  It makes it much easier to try to figure out what you're saying.  Thanks!


----------



## Fasttr

SueDonJ said:


> Considering that MVW has grandfathered other changes/adjustments to the DC Program when it appeared there would be no chance of grandfathering, I wouldn't assume anything.  Unless you have something official you'd like to share?
> 
> Superchief, if you're talking about what jeepie has said, 2014 Points banked into 2015 already, then trying to get them banked further into 2016 would in effect be two banking transactions for the same Points which the rules don't allow.  If after 4/30 MVW doesn't allow your scenario (which none of us knows for certain yet if they will) I think that multiple transactions disallowance would be the reason rather than no grandfathering.  We'll see.  Like you I'm also most interested in the two-year banking but when the changes go into effect I'll be working with 2015 Points banked ahead through 2017.



Are you envisioning the way the 2 year bank will be handled, will be that it must be done in one transaction... i.e. assuming I was in a tier that qualified, if I want to bank my 2015 points forward, I would either have to chose to bank them into 2016 OR into 2017, but would not be allowed to bank them into 2016 AND THEN a year later, bank them forward the 2nd year into 2017?  

That never even crossed my mind until your post....but now it has.  When I read it, I was assuming a double bank would be allowed (grandfathering notwithstanding).


----------



## SueDonJ

Fasttr said:


> Are you envisioning the way the 2 year bank will be handled, will be that it must be done in one transaction... i.e. assuming I was in a tier that qualified, if I want to bank my 2015 points forward, I would either have to chose to bank them into 2016 OR into 2017, but would not be allowed to bank them into 2016 AND THEN a year later, bank them forward the 2nd year into 2017?
> 
> That never even crossed my mind until your post....but now it has.  When I read it, I was assuming a double bank would be allowed (grandfathering notwithstanding).



I'm thinking one transaction allowed, but that the banked Points will be usable in either of the two years ahead.  I agree with dioxide's take in Post #35 here.  Hopefully, it's automatic so that if the DC Member designates Points to be banked, they'll be usable anytime during the interim allowed by the tier level status.


----------



## Fasttr

SueDonJ said:


> I'm thinking one transaction allowed, but that the banked Points will be usable in either of the two years ahead.  I agree with dioxide's take in Post #35 here.  Hopefully, it's automatic so that if the DC Member designates Points to be banked, they'll be usable anytime during the interim allowed by the tier level status.



I guess that makes more sense.  That dioxide45 is always on his "A" game.  

Like Formula 409, he is much better than the 44 dioxide's that came before him.


----------



## MALC9990

SueDonJ said:


> I'm thinking one transaction allowed, but that the banked Points will be usable in either of the two years ahead.  I agree with dioxide's take in Post #35 here.  Hopefully, it's automatic so that if the DC Member designates Points to be banked, they'll be usable anytime during the interim allowed by the tier level status.



Susan, my understanding of the current DC point banking system is that if I bank 2015 points into 2016 then the points now have a new start date of 1/1/2016 and a new end date of 12/31/2016. So, should I suddenly need points in 2015, I then have to borrow some actual 2016 points to make a reservation in 2015. 

How would banking 2 years then work. If I bank 2015 points into 2017 - will they only be available to be used in 2017 ? or will the be available for use in 2016 and 2017.

The reason I ask is that in the AP points system, when I bank 2015 points into 2016, all that happens is the end date for the points is moved to the end date of the next year. Which in my case can differ depending on the type of AP points involved. Enrolled weeks turned into points are valid from 1/1/yyyy to 12/31/yyyy but my purchased AP points are valid from 7/1/yyyy to 6/30/yyyy which really makes for complicated points calculations and usage when looking at reserving and/or banking.


----------



## SueDonJ

MALC9990 said:


> Susan, my understanding of the current DC point banking system is that if I bank 2015 points into 2016 then the points now have a new start date of 1/1/2016 and a new end date of 12/31/2016. So, should I suddenly need points in 2015, I then have to borrow some actual 2016 points to make a reservation in 2015.
> 
> How would banking 2 years then work. If I bank 2015 points into 2017 - will they only be available to be used in 2017 ? or will the be available for use in 2016 and 2017.
> 
> The reason I ask is that in the AP points system, when I bank 2015 points into 2016, all that happens is the end date for the points is moved to the end date of the next year. Which in my case can differ depending on the type of AP points involved. Enrolled weeks turned into points are valid from 1/1/yyyy to 12/31/yyyy but my purchased AP points are valid from 7/1/yyyy to 6/30/yyyy which really makes for complicated points calculations and usage when looking at reserving and/or banking.



DC Points work the same way - Points from an enrolled Week have a Jan1-Dec31 Use Year; purchased Trust Points can have any rolling twelve-month Use Year.  And under the current rules, banking simply rolls the Use Year ahead one year.  So the deadlines and calculations can be as complicated as in the AP system.

What I'm hoping is that the new banking rules will mean that you don't have to designate a one-year use period for banked Points, that it means the new use period will begin one year from the start date of the original Use Year and will extend out through the period designated by tier status.  So, for example, if you're eligible for the two-year period and you bank 2015 Points from an enrolled Week, then you can use those for stays anytime between 1/1/16 and 12/31/17.  Or if you're eligible for the 1-1/2-year period and you bank Trust Points with a 6/1/15-5/31/16 Use Year, those can be used for any stays between 6/1/16 and 11/30/17.

We'll see soon enough how it will work.


----------



## SueDonJ

SueDonJ said:


> Am I reading this correctly?  They've removed the additional 10% discount using the Marriott VISA for cash stays?
> 
> "Owner Rental Discounts" footnote 2 - "Cannot be used with any other discounts."
> 
> Wonder if it's also going going gone with the "MOD" discount?



So far in 2015 I'm batting oh-fer assuming anything with Marriott.  Bad for me but good for all of us!  

I checked into this with an Owner Services contact and have his permission to post this to TUG:


> You will still be able to use the 10% discount with your Marriott Rewards Visa Card.  But you could not, for example, have a government rate and add the owner discount on top of that.  That is what is meant by the “cannot be combined with other discounts.”


----------



## GreenTea

Thank you for the update on the visa.  Great news.  I appreciate you finding this information.


----------



## vikingsholm

Not one bit happy about this change. Having had Premier Plus status after shelling out quite a bit before 2010, and then enrolling, the 1+ day at 13 months and 12 months was a real benefit that they claimed was a reward for our higher level patronage.

Now, they've cut the number of points needed in half to get this, the one valuable benefit of Premier Plus.  We'll have to see how negatively this impacts that type of availability at desirable locations, but I'm not expecting it will be minor.

The 2 year banking is unnecessary rubbish for us.

Under the bus, for sure.  Anything for a fresh buck, it seems.


----------



## MALC9990

SueDonJ said:


> DC Points work the same way - Points from an enrolled Week have a Jan1-Dec31 Use Year; purchased Trust Points can have any rolling twelve-month Use Year.  And under the current rules, banking simply rolls the Use Year ahead one year.  So the deadlines and calculations can be as complicated as in the AP system.
> 
> What I'm hoping is that the new banking rules will mean that you don't have to designate a one-year use period for banked Points, that it means the new use period will begin one year from the start date of the original Use Year and will extend out through the period designated by tier status.  So, for example, if you're eligible for the two-year period and you bank 2015 Points from an enrolled Week, then you can use those for stays anytime between 1/1/16 and 12/31/17.  Or if you're eligible for the 1-1/2-year period and you bank Trust Points with a 6/1/15-5/31/16 Use Year, those can be used for any stays between 6/1/16 and 11/30/17.
> 
> We'll see soon enough how it will work.



So I am correct in thinking there is a difference between DC and AP points when banking. When I bank my AP points for 2015 into 2016, I can still use them in 2015 if I change my mind.


----------



## Fasttr

MALC9990 said:


> So I am correct in thinking there is a difference between DC and AP points when banking. When I bank my AP points for 2015 into 2016, I can still use them in 2015 if I change my mind.



You are correct....banked DC points move to the next Use Year....once you do that, you can't still use them for the unexpired part of the Use Year you are banking them from.


----------



## MALC9990

Fasttr said:


> You are correct....banked DC points move to the next Use Year....once you do that, you can't still use them for the unexpired part of the Use Year you are banking them from.



Thanks:

That is what I thought was the case. With my MVCI AP Points when banking the end date is extended by 12 months but I can still use them in the current year if I need to. Which is a much more customer friendly approach to banking.


----------



## Superchief

SueDonJ said:


> What I'm hoping is that the new banking rules will mean that you don't have to designate a one-year use period for banked Points, that it means the new use period will begin one year from the start date of the original Use Year and will extend out through the period designated by tier status.  So, for example, if you're eligible for the two-year period and you bank 2015 Points from an enrolled Week, then you can use those for stays anytime between 1/1/16 and 12/31/17.  Or if you're eligible for the 1-1/2-year period and you bank Trust Points with a 6/1/15-5/31/16 Use Year, those can be used for any stays between 6/1/16 and 11/30/17.
> 
> We'll see soon enough how it will work.



I totally agree that this would be the preferred policy. This would effectively assign 'expiration dates' to DC points and make it easier for everyone. It would make it easier for people to build up points for dream trips, even using the overpriced Explorer rewards. There would be no more need to decide whether to bank your points prior to determining whether you can reserve a high demand week (like Thanksgiving or Christmas) at your home resort. 

I doubt that I will be able to bank my 2014 points into 2016, but I can always hope.


----------



## SueDonJ

Superchief said:


> I totally agree that this would be the preferred policy. This would effectively assign 'expiration dates' to DC points and make it easier for everyone. It would make it easier for people to build up points for dream trips, even using the overpriced Explorer rewards. There would be no more need to decide whether to bank your points prior to determining whether you can reserve a high demand week (like Thanksgiving or Christmas) at your home resort.
> 
> I doubt that I will be able to bank my 2014 points into 2016, but I can always hope.



I'm trying to flesh out a thought, waiting for the bazinga! moment when what I'm thinking falls completely apart, but in the meantime here's the gist.  If the extended banking rules do work out this way then you can extend the use periods of all or some of your Points (whether from enrolled Weeks or purchased) over the lifetime of their ownership, but it will require limited or no usage in the first year of the cycle.

Say you have 5,000 DC Points with a calendar Use Year, and you're eligible for the two-year banking period.  After the changes go into effect on 4/30 and prior to the 6/30 banking deadline this year, you bank your 2015 Points so that their new use period becomes 1/1/16-12/31/17.  Next year you do the same, banking your 2016 Points to their new 1/1/17-12/31/18 use period, then 2017 Points into 1/1/18-12/31/19, etc ...  Now every Point you've designated to be banked gains an extra usage period of either six or twelve months depending on the status tier for which you're eligible. 

During the first year of the cycle (in my example it would be the 1/1/15-12/31/15 Use Year allotment) you wouldn't have any usage if you bank your entire ownership forward, or you'd have only limited usage if you retain a portion in their original Use Year.  That's the first hurdle.  The second is that if during any year you don't bank Points forward, you're effectively breaking the cycle and would have to begin it again with another year of non/limited-usage.  Third would be that if you're working with enrolled Weeks then in order to keep the cycle going you'll have to commit to converting at least one Week every year to DC Points.

As I said earlier, the timing works for me because we're sitting on unused Weeks/Points with our vacation plans up in the air for the next few years.  If you smart people also can't find the bazinga! moment in my thoughts then this may be exactly the route we'll take.  So, have at it!  

{eta} Bazinga!  Geeze, that's probably record timing!  Doh!  You'd end up with Points that can't be further transacted, right?  You couldn't rent them out, that's the specific one that just hit me (although you could still rent out reservations made with banked Points.)  What else?


----------



## GreenTea

We got called for a presentation on "The Exciting New Levels."  She said we would be at a new level without doing anything.  I know from here we won't.  Skipping the talk.


----------



## Fasttr

SueDonJ said:


> I'm trying to flesh out a thought, waiting for the bazinga! moment when what I'm thinking falls completely apart, but in the meantime here's the gist.  If the extended banking rules do work out this way then you can extend the use periods of all or some of your Points (whether from enrolled Weeks or purchased) over the lifetime of their ownership, but it will require limited or no usage in the first year of the cycle.
> 
> Say you have 5,000 DC Points with a calendar Use Year, and you're eligible for the two-year banking period.  After the changes go into effect on 4/30 and prior to the 6/30 banking deadline this year, you bank your 2015 Points so that their new use period becomes 1/1/16-12/31/17.  Next year you do the same, banking your 2016 Points to their new 1/1/17-12/31/18 use period, then 2017 Points into 1/1/18-12/31/19, etc ...  Now every Point you've designated to be banked gains an extra usage period of either six or twelve months depending on the status tier for which you're eligible.
> 
> During the first year of the cycle (in my example it would be the 1/1/15-12/31/15 Use Year allotment) you wouldn't have any usage if you bank your entire ownership forward, or you'd have only limited usage if you retain a portion in their original Use Year.  That's the first hurdle.  The second is that if during any year you don't bank Points forward, you're effectively breaking the cycle and would have to begin it again with another year of non/limited-usage.  Third would be that if you're working with enrolled Weeks then in order to keep the cycle going you'll have to commit to converting at least one Week every year to DC Points.
> 
> As I said earlier, the timing works for me because we're sitting on unused Weeks/Points with our vacation plans up in the air for the next few years.  If you smart people also can't find the bazinga! moment in my thoughts then this may be exactly the route we'll take.  So, have at it!
> 
> {eta} Bazinga!  Geeze, that's probably record timing!  Doh!  You'd end up with Points that can't be further transacted, right?  You couldn't rent them out, that's the specific one that just hit me (although you could still rent out reservations made with banked Points.)  What else?



I have read this though a few times and I still don't know what point you are making or what you are getting at or trying to do.  The dates as you lay them out appear correct, but again, I am not getting your point I guess.  

That said, in my humble opinion, unless you are banking for a reason (dream vacation or something), I don't see the reason as a general rule you would want to pay MF's today on a ressie you might not take until 2 years down the road and do that continually as a general approach.  It seems like borrowing from future year points is a better approach because you get the vacation now, and pay for it later.


----------



## SueDonJ

Fasttr said:


> I have read this though a few times and I still don't know what point you are making or what you are getting at or trying to do.  The dates as you lay them out appear correct, but again, I am not getting your point I guess.
> 
> That said, in my humble opinion, unless you are banking for a reason (dream vacation or something), I don't see the reason as a general rule you would want to pay MF's today on a ressie you might not take until 2 years down the road and do that continually as a general approach.  It seems like borrowing from future year points is a better approach because you get the vacation now, and pay for it later.



  I'm not sure I get it either.  It might be just because our plans are so much up in the air that extending the usage life of what we own sounds good right now.  But you're right in that it won't appeal to those who have planned usage or those who don't intend to hold on longterm to what they own.


----------



## jeepie

SueDonJ said:


> ...What else?


Please correct me if I'm wrong...You wouldn't be able to borrow points if you've already banked them. For example, you bank 2017 points at the earliest possible time, then later perhaps you want to borrow enough for a major trip, say in 2016.


----------



## Fasttr

jeepie said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong...You wouldn't be able to borrow points if you've already banked them. For example, you bank 2017 points at the earliest possible time, then later perhaps you want to borrow enough for a major trip, say in 2016.



I think in your example, your major trip would have to be in the latter part of 2017, but I get your point.  I think at that point, you would just borrow points from your 2018 Use Year.

This is what Malc was getting at...which appears more user friendly in the AP system as you could still use those points during the remainder of the Use Year that you banked them from if you were living in the AP system.


----------



## papertraveller

I am late to learning about this change, so please forgive me.

If I understand this correctly, those who own 4,000 -plus DC points will gain access to the 13+ month advance booking privilege.

Those who own less stick with the old access.

If this has the impact (as I gather it should) of granting earlier access to a larger group of people, those with fewer points will find it more difficult to book the high-demand properties.

Marriott sees this as a sales advantage, because they can try to persuade people at the lower levels to ante up a little more cash to hit the required level of 4,000 points.

Or does it potentially backfire as well? We have 2,500 points, and if we discover that just can't use them, we're not going to add anything more to the product. We'll sell it.

Do I understand correctly how this might impact owners of smaller amounts of points?


----------



## dioxide45

papertraveller said:


> I am late to learning about this change, so please forgive me.
> 
> If I understand this correctly, those who own 4,000 -plus DC points will gain access to the 13+ month advance booking privilege.
> 
> Those who own less stick with the old access.
> 
> If this has the impact (as I gather it should) of granting earlier access to a larger group of people, those with fewer points will find it more difficult to book the high-demand properties.
> 
> Marriott sees this as a sales advantage, because they can try to persuade people at the lower levels to ante up a little more cash to hit the required level of 4,000 points.
> 
> Or does it potentially backfire as well? We have 2,500 points, and if we discover that just can't use them, we're not going to add anything more to the product. We'll sell it.
> 
> Do I understand correctly how this might impact owners of smaller amounts of points?



I don't think owners with small amounts of points are really impacted that much. Chances are they are either using their weeks or exchanging through II. 2,500 points doesn't get you much, you are usually much better to go through II for the best value for the money. If you want a peak week, you can't get it through DC with that few number of points without banking and/or borrowing.


----------



## papertraveller

Thanks -- we have had fair success in managing through banking.

I'm just more concerned about the fact that we could be squeezed out on the availability front if there are always going to be more people ahead of us in the queue.


----------



## Fasttr

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think owners with small amounts of points are really impacted that much. Chances are they are either using their weeks or exchanging through II. 2,500 points doesn't get you much, you are usually much better to go through II for the best value for the money. If you want a peak week, you can't get it through DC with that few number of points without banking and/or borrowing.



I read paper's post to mean that they owned 2500 Trust points.  If so, perhaps they travel in 1BR's, or rent any additional points they need.  Many of us with smaller amounts of points are managing just fine because of the ability to rent points.

That said, I tend to agree with you that at least for the near future, the tier changes will not materially affect available inventory for us little guys, super prime weeks notwithstanding, as it doesn't currently appear they fully spring open the inventory floodgates at the 13 month mark.


----------



## GregT

papertraveller said:


> I'm just more concerned about the fact that we could be squeezed out on the availability front if there are always going to be more people ahead of us in the queue.



I think you will still have reasonable availability, but at 12 months out versus 13 months out, when other owners are starting to get some booking privileges.   Because Marriott will hold back some percentage of their inventory for release at 12 months out, there will still be some inventory available.

It will be interesting to see how the ownership experience plays out for all different levels.

Best,

Greg


----------



## Fasttr

papertraveller said:


> I'm just more concerned about the fact that we could be squeezed out on the availability front if there are always going to be more people ahead of us in the queue.



Also, keep in mind, even with 2500 points, you still have access to booking 7+ nights in the 13 month window, it just costs you a 20% point premium to do so.  If you are booking a 3000 point ressie as an example, that point premium is only 600 points, or the equivalent of $325 at today's going point rental prices.  If it came to that, I would gladly pay $325 extra per year rather than pay $18K plus $700+ in annual MF's to basically get the right to do the same thing based on their new status tiers.

This still leaves open the option of rebooking at 12 months if your ressie is still available, and the 20% premium points would just go into your holding account.


----------



## Superchief

I am anxious to learn the details regarding banking with the new system. Will chairman level DC owners have the opportunity to choose whether to bank each year (2015 to 2016, and later to 2017?), will banking cover a 2 yr. period (bank in 2015 to be used at any time in 2016-2017), or some other option. 

How will this impact the ability to rent points? Will owners be able to rent points that have not been banke or only been banked for one year?

I like the flexibility of banking, but the new policies will determine how much our flexibility is enhanced. I currently have more weeks and points than I can use, so this will be very important to me.


----------



## billkoelpin

Fasttr wondering what the real tangible benefit is to purchasing more than 1500 points resale and then scaling up/renting what ever else you need? By mvc lowering the 13mo ressie window it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for someone new to put down that kind of money for 7 or 10,000points with the accompanying maint fee and no ressie advantage. Ok 20% prem but as pointed out it isn't that much more expensive and you could even re-book at 12mo with 0 premium. Am i missing something?


----------



## Fasttr

billkoelpin said:


> Fasttr wondering what the real tangible benefit is to purchasing more than 1500 points resale and then scaling up/renting what ever else you need? By mvc lowering the 13mo ressie window it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for someone new to put down that kind of money for 7 or 10,000points with the accompanying maint fee and no ressie advantage. Ok 20% prem but as pointed out it isn't that much more expensive and you could even re-book at 12mo with 0 premium. Am i missing something?



Nope, you're missing nothing...you've nailed it.  If you are new to MVC and want to play in the points game, buying 1500 points resale and renting the rest is a legitimate approach based on the rules as they are today and also under the proposed rules associated with the new status tiers.  IMO, it takes an ownership level of 7000 points under the new rules which allows for 1+ nights at 13 months to create any real value from a status level perspective, and as you pointed out, that's a lot of $$$ for somebody new to the game to be plunking down to get there.


----------



## dioxide45

billkoelpin said:


> Fasttr wondering what the real tangible benefit is to purchasing more than 1500 points resale and then scaling up/renting what ever else you need? By mvc lowering the 13mo ressie window it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for someone new to put down that kind of money for 7 or 10,000points with the accompanying maint fee and no ressie advantage. Ok 20% prem but as pointed out it isn't that much more expensive and you could even re-book at 12mo with 0 premium. Am i missing something?



I don't think you can get the 20% premium of points back at 12 months if you re-book.



			
				From DC Exchange Procedures said:
			
		

> Any Exchange Points required to obtain an Advance Priority Reservation (over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period) will not be restored to the Member in the event that the Advance Priority Reservation is cancelled by the Member.


----------



## Fasttr

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think you can get the 20% premium of points back at 12 months if you re-book.



I've only booked one ressie at 13 months...for a ressie I wanted to make sure I got, and when I rebooked at 12 months, the 20% premium points did go back into my holding account.  As I recall, there is another area of the docs that contradicts what you quoted above...I'll see if I can find it.


----------



## billkoelpin

great thanks for clarifying i appreciate it! they must have realized the bread and butter is at building the base rather than the top. I would hope they will add other perks for the 7 and 10k levels if not they are just going to be selling a lot of 2k packages. Sorry one other question - in the 2016 catalog i only see Ritz Vail have all the other RCC left mvc and or changed ownership (St Thomas/Jupiter/Kapalua/Abaco?)


----------



## Fasttr

dioxide45 said:


> I don't think you can get the 20% premium of points back at 12 months if you re-book.





Fasttr said:


> I've only booked one ressie at 13 months...for a ressie I wanted to make sure I got, and when I rebooked at 12 months, the 20% premium points did go back into my holding account.  As I recall, there is another area of the docs that contradicts what you quoted above...I'll see if I can find it.



Dioxide45, here is the other contradicting excerpt....Bolding is mine.



> D. Cancellations and No-Shows.
> If a Member wishes to cancel or release a confirmed reservation of a Use Period, and Exchange Company receives written cancellation (or other means of verifiable communication acceptable to Exchange Company) at least sixty-one (61) days prior to the first day of such confirmed Use Period, no cancellation fee will apply, and such cancellation will result in unrestricted restoration of the related Exchange Points to the Member for further use during that Use Year; *provided, however, that in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, Exchange Points required to obtain such Advance Priority Reservation over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period will be restored to the Member’s Holding Account*, subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts as set forth in these Exchange Procedures.


----------



## dioxide45

Finally got an email about these changes. Here are some linked documents.

This is specific to our new tier.
http://img.vacationclubsurvey.com/i...vel_Elevation/Owner_Benefits_Select_Chart.pdf

http://img.vacationclubsurvey.com/i...015/02202015_OwnerLevel_Elevation/Benefit.pdf

This is the same one Greg posted in post #1.
http://img.vacationclubsurvey.com/i...wnerLevel_Elevation/OwnerBenefitsBrochure.pdf


----------



## TEA CIE

*To buy or not to buy?*

I have recently purchased resale weeks through Marriott that are still eligible for DC enrollment if I also purchase the matching points (within one year from the closing dates). Those matching points will get me to pp and then chairman after April 30 and then I will be able to bank points/weeks for 2 years that is a very attractive option to me. I am told by one of the salespersons that DC point price will go up later this month (she didn't say how much). Even though the combined package will cost about $5 to $6 per point at this time before the price goes up, which I know is a good price from reading posts here, the total cost will be still quite high. What should I do? Are the pp/chairman benefits worthwhile to go for it?


----------



## chunkygal

Does anyone know what the 50%mrp points is. Does this mean you would only re ie e 65000 rather than 110000 every year.


----------



## StevenTing

chunkygal said:


> Does anyone know what the 50%mrp points is. Does this mean you would only re ie e 65000 rather than 110000 every year.




I believe it is the % of DC points you can convert to Marriott Points.


----------



## dioxide45

chunkygal said:


> Does anyone know what the 50%mrp points is. Does this mean you would only re ie e 65000 rather than 110000 every year.



It is for Trust points only. Means you can convert that percentage of your DC points to MR points at a 32/1 ratio.


----------



## Superchief

I just received my email regarding the new tiers yesterday. As a Chairman, the most important benefit to me is the ability to bank for two years. From the description, it appears that when you bank from the current year (ie 2015), the points can be used for up to two years (ie 2017). I expect we will only need to bank the points once, rather than once per year. 

I needed to bank some 2015 points to 2016 in order to make a reservation next year. I am hopeful that these will also be good for two years, but expect they will not be since I banked them prior to the new program. Therefore, I am delaying the banking of my other points until the new program is in place.


----------



## Superchief

When making a reservation today, I confirmed that any points that are banked prior to the change will only be valid for one year (current policy). I suggest everyone hold off on banking 2015 points until the new program begins in order to enjoy the extended time periods. I also confirmed that you only have to bank the points once, and they will be valid for use until they expire (2 yrs for Chairman). 

I assume that current rules will apply regarding transfering points to other owners. Once banked, they cannot be transfered; and transfered points cannot be banked.


----------



## bazzap

Superchief said:


> When making a reservation today, I confirmed that any points that are banked prior to the change will only be valid for one year (current policy). I suggest everyone hold off on banking 2015 points until the new program begins in order to enjoy the extended time periods. I also confirmed that you only have to bank the points once, and they will be valid for use until they expire (2 yrs for Chairman).
> 
> I assume that current rules will apply regarding transfering points to other owners. Once banked, they cannot be transfered; and transfered points cannot be banked.


Many thanks Superchief, this is really helpful information.
I am just sorry your pre-deadline banked 2015 points don't qualify for the 2 years.


----------



## Superchief

bazzap said:


> Many thanks Superchief, this is really helpful information.
> I am just sorry your pre-deadline banked 2015 points don't qualify for the 2 years.



Thanks. Fortunately, I've already used them for a reservation next March at Canyon Villas. I was able to exchange my Gold 1BR for a 1BR 3/7 and use DC points for 5 nights in a 2BR. I continue to be happy with combining owned weeks, II, and DC points to get fantastic vacations.


----------



## SueDonJ

Superchief said:


> When making a reservation today, I confirmed that any points that are banked prior to the change will only be valid for one year (current policy). I suggest everyone hold off on banking 2015 points until the new program begins in order to enjoy the extended time periods. I also confirmed that you only have to bank the points once, and they will be valid for use until they expire (2 yrs for Chairman).
> 
> I assume that current rules will apply regarding transfering points to other owners. Once banked, they cannot be transfered; and transfered points cannot be banked.



Thanks, Superchief.  I'm one who will be on the phone May 1 to bank Points under the new rules, and appreciate you sharing what you learned in advance.


----------



## jeepie

*Just curious...*



SueDonJ said:


> Thanks, Superchief.  I'm one who will be on the phone May 1 to bank Points under the new rules, and appreciate you sharing what you learned in advance.


I absolutely agree it makes sense to wait until May 1st...but why the rush to bank on May 1st? If one's points are on a calendar year, there will be no need to make the decision to bank until later (September 1st for some). Cheers.


----------



## SueDonJ

jeepie said:


> I absolutely agree it makes sense to wait until May 1st...but why the rush to bank on May 1st? If one's points are on a calendar year, there will be no need to make the decision to bank until later (September 1st for some). Cheers.



No rush except I know it's what I'm doing with them and would rather take care of it sooner than later.


----------



## KathyPet

I was a PP and dropped to a Premier when we sold MMC.  Now I have the PP benefits I lost back again.


----------



## Quilter

KathyPet said:


> I was a PP and dropped to a Premier when we sold MMC.  Now I have the PP benefits I lost back again.



Wow!  That must have been a pleasant surprise.

What a twist compared to the unfortunate scenario puckmanfl referred to.

We're PP going to Chairman.   But I'm not sure "going" is the right term.   Like the rest of the program it is "time will tell".


----------



## puckmanfl

good evening....

all those that purchased to become PP got hosed as they would have had the main benefit of PP (less than 7 days at 13 months) anyway...

Previous PP's got hosed too, because more competition at the 13 month mark for the less than 7 day 13 month ressies... The xtra banking (2 years) is a big whoopie!!!! who cares type benefit...

The Previous P's were the big winner here!!!


----------



## TEA CIE

puckmanfl said:


> good evening....
> 
> ... The xtra banking (2 years) is a big whoopie!!!! who cares type benefit...
> 
> The Previous P's were the big winner here!!!



I agree with you that the previous p's or the new executive/presidential are the winners overall. But I also think the 2 year banking period is very attractive to me. It means much better control over planning and protection against unforeseen life changes for a period of 2 years (4 years if counting II) without fear of losing my points (both trust and enrolled). It's what has made me seriously considering buying more matching points to my resale weeks. Alas it's not meant to be for me because of my own foolishness.


----------



## Quilter

puckmanfl said:


> good evening....
> 
> all those that purchased to become PP got hosed as they would have had the main benefit of PP (less than 7 days at 13 months) anyway...
> 
> Previous PP's got hosed too, because more competition at the 13 month mark for the less than 7 day 13 month ressies... The xtra banking (2 years) is a big whoopie!!!! who cares type benefit...
> 
> The Previous P's were the big winner here!!!



Good evening puck,

Some on this thread have speculated that the larger pool of owners in the 13 month 1+ could stimulate more available inventory.   

What are your thoughts?


----------



## ihmkkbg

*New Benefit Levels -effective 4/30/2015*

does anyone know the benefit details for the revised 
Vacation Club Points-effective 4/30/215?

We got an email from Owner Services notifying us that they are reclassifying the point levels. the "old" Premier Plus is now a Chairman's Cub level and is raised to 15,000+ Vacation Club Points. New benefits include extended reservation windows, improved borrowing rules at all levels, extended banking and election deadlines..but no specific details.


----------



## FlyerBobcat

ihmkkbg said:


> does anyone know the benefit details for the revised
> Vacation Club Points-effective 4/30/215?
> 
> We got an email from Owner Services notifying us that they are reclassifying the point levels. the "old" Premier Plus is now a Chairman's Cub level and is raised to 15,000+ Vacation Club Points. New benefits include extended reservation windows, improved borrowing rules at all levels, extended banking and election deadlines..but no specific details.



I believe that topic is discussed here .......


----------



## washjeff68

*How are every other year points handled?*

Suppose you own an EOY even week worth 4,000 DC points. How are the points allocated? would half be allocated every year or are all allocated to the year of use? This could result in someone qualifying for one level in the even years and another in the odd years.

Jeff from Tennessee (chilling at DSV 1 this week)


----------



## Fasttr

exrvi said:


> Suppose you own an EOY even week worth 4,000 DC points. How are the points allocated? would half be allocated every year or are all allocated to the year of use? This could result in someone qualifying for one level in the even years and another in the odd years.
> 
> Jeff from Tennessee (chilling at DSV 1 this week)



From the Exchange Docs.....



> With respect to an Exchange Member who owns an alternate year Interest, unless the Exchange Member banks or borrows Exchange Points as may be permitted by these Exchange Procedures, such Exchange Member will be entitled to Deposit Use Periods associated with his or her Interest for usage of Exchange Points only during the calendar year in which such Exchange Member’s use rights occur, and will be required to use their Exchange Points during the same calendar year; provided, however, such Exchange Member will be assessed Exchange Company Dues on an annual basis (as applicable).



As for qualifying for Status levels, I believe they consider 1/2 of the points each year contributing to your Status level....but don't quote me on that one.


----------



## Cmore

exrvi said:


> Suppose you own an EOY even week worth 4,000 DC points. How are the points allocated? would half be allocated every year or are all allocated to the year of use? This could result in someone qualifying for one level in the even years and another in the odd years.
> 
> Jeff from Tennessee (chilling at DSV 1 this week)



Jeff,
We have two every other years at DSII -Odd and an Even, they are enrolled for DC points access.  Our points are allocated fully on their use year, so its all the points one year and none the next.  In our case, it doesn't matter as they effectively create an every year unit.   My guess is yours will be the same, with you getting 4000 in your use year, and zero the next.

Anyway you could always call into Owner services confirm or if you actually have an enrolled unit the mvci owner website will show you exactly how they are allocating the points.

Hope this helps.


----------



## dioxide45

Fasttr said:


> From the Exchange Docs.....
> 
> 
> 
> As for qualifying for Status levels, I believe they consider 1/2 of the points each year contributing to your Status level....but don't quote me on that one.



That is correct. It is based on half of the EOY allocation for the status tiers. Though when you convert, you can only convert to DC points in your use year and get the full value of those DC points.


----------



## BobG7734

To add to Dioxide...the points do appear in your assigned year (eg odd) but then those points can be borrowed into the current even year.  

I have every year ownership in one location and eoy in  2 others...it is possible to  bank and borrow and elect all into one year.


----------



## MauiSunset

*What does April 30, 2015 mean to you?*

We attended our annual Maui Ocean Club presentation a few days ago.
The salesman was very knowledgeable and indicated we had been there 6 times before and did not buy anything - why are we coming back?

Well, that wasn't a great way to start the sales presentation but we are going to buy 2,000 points to go along with our Gold Summit Watch that is enrolled in the program. If you had told me that we would buy Points from Marriott the day before I'd tell you that you forgot to take your meds.

I'm not going to go into why we bought since I don't want to get pummeled with "why on earth..."

But I am curious what April 30, 2015 means to you guys since it is a tectonic date for me; if I understand all the things happening then.

and yes we still have 6 days to rescind if we want.

Thanks for your feedback - Maui


----------



## sjsharkie

MauiSunset said:


> Well, that wasn't a great way to start the sales presentation but we are going to buy 2,000 points to go along with our Gold Summit Watch that is enrolled in the program. If you had told me that we would buy Points from Marriott the day before I'd tell you that you forgot to take your meds.
> 
> I'm not going to go into why we bought since I don't want to get pummeled with "why on earth..."
> 
> Thanks for your feedback - Maui



As long as you have made an informed decision about buying, there is no reason to get pummeled here.  Enjoy your purchase!

As for April 30, no big meaning for me.  Now April 15 -- that's another story 

-ryan


----------



## Fasttr

MauiSunset said:


> We attended our annual Maui Ocean Club presentation a few days ago.
> The salesman was very knowledgeable and indicated we had been there 6 times before and did not buy anything - why are we coming back?
> 
> Well, that wasn't a great way to start the sales presentation but we are going to buy 2,000 points to go along with our Gold Summit Watch that is enrolled in the program. If you had told me that we would buy Points from Marriott the day before I'd tell you that you forgot to take your meds.
> 
> I'm not going to go into why we bought since I don't want to get pummeled with "why on earth..."
> 
> But I am curious what April 30, 2015 means to you guys since it is a tectonic date for me; if I understand all the things happening then.
> 
> and yes we still have 6 days to rescind if we want.
> 
> Thanks for your feedback - Maui



Are you referring to THIS?


----------



## MauiSunset

Fasttr said:


> Are you referring to THIS?



not really but it is important.


----------



## ilene13

sjsharkie said:


> As long as you have made an informed decision about buying, there is no reason to get pummeled here.  Enjoy your purchase!
> 
> As for April 30, no big meaning for me.  Now April 15 -- that's another story
> 
> -ryan



Ditto, we will be at chairmanship level for DP but it doesn't matter to us.


----------



## SueDonJ

MauiSunset said:


> not really but it is important.



If not the upcoming changes to status tier levels in the DC that are detailed in that linked thread, I can't imagine what else related to Marriott would be as or more important?


----------



## MauiSunset

SueDonJ said:


> If not the upcoming changes to status tier levels in the DC that are detailed in that linked thread, I can't imagine what else related to Marriott would be as or more important?



that's why I'm asking - is there anything happening on April 30 that is just as important; I don't know since I've not kept up on Marriott for years.


----------



## SueDonJ

MauiSunset said:


> that's why I'm asking - is there anything happening on April 30 that is just as important; I don't know since I've not kept up on Marriott for years.



I'm confused.  You answered Fasttr by saying "not really" but it seems you are asking if we know that DC status tiers are being adjusted effective 4/30/15?  Yes, and we talked about it in the linked thread.

I'm merging these two threads in order to prevent duplicate ongoing threads related to the same topic - but if you are talking about something else please feel free to say so and I'll split them apart again.


----------



## dansimms

*Ask about 2500 Points*

You may want to ask your Rep., how much more, if anything to get 2500 Trust Points.  For us, it was a little less money than 2000 would have been.  Bare in mind, it means higher maintenance fee ongoing though.  Congrats!


----------



## MauiSunset

dansimms said:


> You may want to ask your Rep., how much more, if anything to get 2500 Trust Points.  For us, it was a little less money than 2000 would have been.  Bare in mind, it means higher maintenance fee ongoing though.  Congrats!



So 2,500 points are cheaper than 2,000 points?
I must be reading this wrong.


----------



## jimf41

MauiSunset said:


> So 2,500 points are cheaper than 2,000 points?
> I must be reading this wrong.



You're not reading it wrong. MVC gives discounts on volume. They also discount if you don't take any incentives.


----------



## SueDonJ

MauiSunset said:


> So 2,500 points are cheaper than 2,000 points?
> I must be reading this wrong.



With purchase incentives it's possible because the per-Point price can decrease as the number of Points being purchased increases.  No purchase incentives are guaranteed, though, so it depends what's available at the particular time and from which particular sales rep/office you buy.  And as Dan said, forever after you're on the hook for the higher per-Point Maintenance Fee because you actually buy more Points.


----------



## SueDonJ

jimf41 said:


> You're not reading it wrong. MVC gives discounts on volume. They also discount if you don't take any incentives.



Yeah, what he said.


----------



## dansimms

*Confirming*

Yes.  You read that right.  In our circumstance, 18 months ago, it was less total money for us to buy 2500 Trust Points than 2000 on the purchase price. It was close, but less expensive by perhaps $25. We purchased during an encore visit, so we had that fee (encore) deducted, I believe we also got a credit for what we originally paid for the Destination Club ($395 ??  I forget.) and we were told we had locked in the rate for points from the prior year due to the Encore visit.  They ended up giving a deeper discount than even the lower rate from the prior year.  We did a bundle with an EOY at Beach Place Towers and that portion of it came with a 50000 Marriott Rewards Points Bonus once the closing went through.  We were hoping that getting to Premier Plus would yield some benefits.  When the new tiers were announced, we were glad to see that we are being bumped up to Chairman's Club without having to have 15000 Points, so we feel pretty good about being at the top level despite only having 13300 points.  I had it in my head that we were done doing the sales pitch and my wife just surprised me and said she wants to hear the latest pitch, based on the fact that we would be impossible to sell to, considering that we are already at the highest level and don't want to add to our maintenance fee.  We will keep you posted on how that goes during our Desert Springs 1 trip this month.  We are in sales, so we are very sensitive to wasting a Sales Rep's time when they could be speaking to a better prospect with greater than a 0% chance for a sale. We look at our portfolio as great now and setting us up for retirement down the road, where we might want to string together greater than a month away in our winter or for far flung trips like Australia, South America and Asia that ideally require longer durations.


----------



## SeaDoc

MauiSunset said:


> We attended our annual Maui Ocean Club presentation a few days ago.
> The salesman was very knowledgeable and indicated we had been there 6 times before and did not buy anything - why are we coming back?
> 
> Well, that wasn't a great way to start the sales presentation but we are going to buy 2,000 points to go along with our Gold Summit Watch that is enrolled in the program. If you had told me that we would buy Points from Marriott the day before I'd tell you that you forgot to take your meds.
> 
> I'm not going to go into why we bought since I don't want to get pummeled with "why on earth..."
> 
> But I am curious what April 30, 2015 means to you guys since it is a tectonic date for me; if I understand all the things happening then.
> 
> and yes we still have 6 days to rescind if we want.
> 
> Thanks for your feedback - Maui


I was just in Maui for the last three weeks.  Beautiful.  The April 30th is the date when the four new tiers come into being.  If your recent purchase places you at the current premier 6500 or premier plus 13000, your tier level will be elevated to the next higher tiers  as it will now require 7000/15000 for those new tiers starting in May 2015.


----------



## dansimms

*Banking Points for 2 years*

Does anyone see banking points, either Trust or Legacy, out 2 years versus 1, as being a potential drawback?  Apparently if you need them, they are eligible to be pulled into the current year.  So there may not be a drawback.  Thoughts? As of May 1st, Chairman Clubbers can bank up to 2 years.


----------



## SueDonJ

dansimms said:


> Does anyone see banking points, either Trust or Legacy, out 2 years versus 1, as being a potential drawback?  Apparently if you need them, they are eligible to be pulled into the current year.  So there may not be a drawback.  Thoughts? As of May 1st, Chairman Clubbers can bank up to 2 years.



Dan, I merged your new thread into this one because the upcoming status tier changes aren't in effect yet, and we're still limited to some speculation about many related items because MVW hasn't released anything more than the pdf's linked in the first post in this thread.

We don't know if the existing banking rules will remain or if they'll change - why do you think banked Points will be able to be pulled back into the Use Year from which they were banked?  The wording on the chart leads me to expect that although the banking periods are extended for the top two tiers, the rule about banked Points not being eligible for original Use Year usage will remain.  What I expect is that if Points from a 1/1-12/31/15 calendar Use Year are banked by a Member with Presidential status, those Points can be used to book available intervals with a check-in date between 1/1/16 and 6/30/17, and the same UY Points banked by a Member with Chairman's Club status could be used ... between 1/1/16 and 12/31/17.

In any case, whether they change the rule or not, I don't see how extending the banking period might be seen as a drawback.  It lengthens your usage period, gives you something you didn't have before while not taking anything away.


----------



## dundeeyank

*As stated, nobody knows*

If you were a long range planner like me, a three year plan would add even more possibilities to the mix but also more time planning.  
What I worry about is how it will be set... I decide I want to do a trip to France  in 16 and a trip to Italy in 17.  But something comes up and I want to take a Safari to South Africa in 16... Can I use the points I moved from 15 to 17 back into 16?  As stated, we don't know the rules yet.


----------



## buildsmart

*Floating Platinum Week*

Will this affect my ability to book a week. I am purchasing a week at the Grande Vista


----------



## kds4

Andy R said:


> Will this affect my ability to book a week. I am purchasing a week at the Grande Vista



If you are purchasing a resale week at MGV/MGR (Marriott's Grande Vista), and it passes ROFR (Marriott's Right of First Refusal), the changes being discussed here (regarding Marriott's Destination Club or DC points program - which is a different form of timeshare/vacation ownership with Marriott than purchasing a week as you say you are doing) will have no effect on your ability to reserve your home resort/Grande Vista during the season you purchased (Gold/Platinum) or your ability to deposit the week for an exchange through II (Interval International), if you have a paid membership/account with II.


----------



## Quilter

MauiSunset said:


> We attended our annual Maui Ocean Club presentation a few days ago.
> The salesman was very knowledgeable and indicated we had been there 6 times before and did not buy anything - why are we coming back?
> 
> Well, that wasn't a great way to start the sales presentation but we are going to buy 2,000 points to go along with our Gold Summit Watch that is enrolled in the program. If you had told me that we would buy Points from Marriott the day before I'd tell you that you forgot to take your meds.
> 
> I'm not going to go into why we bought since I don't want to get pummeled with "why on earth..."
> 
> But I am curious what April 30, 2015 means to you guys since it is a tectonic date for me; if I understand all the things happening then.
> 
> and yes we still have 6 days to rescind if we want.
> 
> Thanks for your feedback - Maui



Curious, did you consider buying a bundled package direct from Marriott?

We stopped in Orlando to have lunch with our salesman.  He's now in the resale of bundles.  Makes a sensible pitch to go that route.


----------



## MauiSunset

Quilter said:


> Curious, did you consider buying a bundled package direct from Marriott?
> 
> We stopped in Orlando to have lunch with our salesman.  He's now in the resale of bundles.  Makes a sensible pitch to go that route.



What is a bundle?


----------



## dioxide45

MauiSunset said:


> What is a bundle?



A combination of a resale week through Marriott resales department along with a DC trust points purchase. The amount of DC trust points you buy must be equal to the number of points the resale week is worth when converted to DC points. With the bundle, they allow the resale (post 6/20/2010) week to be enrolled in DC. The resale week MUST be purchased through Marriott resales, not externally.


----------



## MauiSunset

dioxide45 said:


> A combination of a resale week through Marriott resales department along with a DC trust points purchase. The amount of DC trust points you buy must be equal to the number of points the resale week is worth when converted to DC points. With the bundle, they allow the resale (post 6/20/2010) week to be enrolled in DC. The resale week MUST be purchased through Marriott resales, not externally.



Thanks - good to know, but that still means the resale week's elected points are  treated separately from the Trust Points bought.

Right?


----------



## dioxide45

MauiSunset said:


> Thanks - good to know, but that still means the resale week's elected points are  treated separately from the Trust Points bought.
> 
> Right?



That is correct, technically. But for all practical purposes, for about 90% of reservations, you would see no difference.


----------



## JIMinNC

dioxide45 said:


> That is correct, technically. But for all practical purposes, for about 90% of reservations, you would see no difference.



...and perhaps most importantly, Marriott bundles can yield a net cost per point in the $7 range versus the $10 to $12+ pricing for most straight retail point purchases from Marriott.


----------



## Quilter

dioxide45 said:


> A combination of a resale week through Marriott resales department along with a DC trust points purchase. The amount of DC trust points you buy must be equal to the number of points the resale week is worth when converted to DC points. With the bundle, they allow the resale (post 6/20/2010) week to be enrolled in DC. The resale week MUST be purchased through Marriott resales, not externally.




Wait--I've just had this conversation in the past week but can't remember if it here or on OPnewsgroup.  I thought conclusion was that the points do not have to be same as the week.

On iPad and can't search like I can on computer.


----------



## dioxide45

Quilter said:


> Wait--I've just had this conversation in the past week but can't remember if it here or on OPnewsgroup.  I thought conclusion was that the points do not have to be same as the week.
> 
> On iPad and can't search like I can on computer.



It was discussed in this thread where sptung attempted to purchase some points and enroll previously purchased resale weeks after purchasing fewer DC points than it was worth. It doesn't look like it worked out in their favor.


----------



## Fasttr

Quilter said:


> Wait--I've just had this conversation in the past week but can't remember if it here or on OPnewsgroup.  I thought conclusion was that the points do not have to be same as the week.
> 
> On iPad and can't search like I can on computer.



I've always seen it posted that the Trust Point purchase had to be at least equal to the # of points associated with the enrollable resale week you are purchasing from MVC Resale Ops.


----------



## kds4

We were told this past week at Surfwatch to buy a combo required at least as many points as the week would convert to.


----------



## JIMinNC

kds4 said:


> We were told this past week at Surfwatch to buy a combo required at least as many points as the week would convert to.



And you have to buy in increments of 250 points (one Beneficial Interest = 250 points). So if the companion week is worth 2525 points, you must buy 2750 Trust points.


----------



## Quilter

Ok, we've stopped for the night and I have my computer.   

Here's what one of our OPnewsgroup members wrote when I asked if the number of points needed to be equal or above the ones for the purchased resale:

"Our purchases of the every other year Ft. Lauderdale week did not require us to buy equivalent DC points.  It is not even half of the DC points, so I think that part depends on the location and sales rep."

It's not an issue for me since we have plenty of possible points.   I'm merely throwing it out there as a suggestion for those interested to ask their salesperson or contact this department:  https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/index.shtml


----------



## mvc

*destination points point system*

Does anyone know anything about the new destination point system. It is starting April 30th . I am curious but not curious enough to go to a sales presentation.


----------



## bazzap

mvc said:


> Does anyone know anything about the new destination point system. It is starting April thirty first . I am curious but not curious enough to go to a sales presentation.


April first - hmm!

Ah, I see you have now changed the date to April thirty first.
This is not a new points system, just a change of Ownership levels and benefits explained in detail in another thread

"Marriott Vacation Club® International strives to continually enhance the offerings available to our valued Owners. We're excited to announce new ownership recognition levels and benefits that are coming soon for our Vacation Club Point and Enrolled Week Owners. The new benefit levels will become effective April 30, 2015. While all Vacation Club Point and Enrolled Owners receive certain benefits, this program change will provide four new benefit levels — Select, Executive, Presidential and Chairman's Club — replacing the existing Premier and Premier Plus benefit levels."


----------



## Fasttr

mvc said:


> Does anyone know anything about the new destination point system. It is starting April thirty first . I am curious but not curious enough to go to a sales presentation.



[HERE] is the thread that discusses the new changes.


----------



## mvc

Thank you  for the information.I will soon be  executive level.  I own 2 weeks in Newport and have some points. To take advantage of the 1 day 13 month reservation window to make a reservation for a week at Newport is it correct that I would need to transfere my owned week into destination points?


----------



## Fasttr

mvc said:


> Thank you  for the information.I will soon be  executive level.  I own 2 weeks in Newport and have some points. To take advantage of the 1 day 13 month reservation window to make a reservation for a week at Newport is it correct that I would need to transfere my owned week into destination points?



You would just need to have points in your account that could secure the ressie.  If for instance, you had reserved your normal week via the traditional weeks system, and wanted to add 2 nights to the end of your ressie, you could do that at 13 months provided you had enough points in your account for the 2 nights.


----------



## mvc

Can I make a reservation at Newport for my owned week, that is not points but is enrolled in the destination program, 1 day and 13 months out?


----------



## SueDonJ

mvc said:


> Can I make a reservation at Newport for my owned week, that is not points but is enrolled in the destination program, 1 day and 13 months out?



No.  If you're booking Weeks you use the 12-mos Reservation Window for a single week and the 13-mos Window for multiple consecutive/concurrent weeks.  The status-related benefits and rules for your DC Membership apply only to reservations made using DC Points.

Use this link to access the Inventory Release calendars for Weeks; click on "Vacation Club Points Owner" or "Enrolled Owner" at this link for the Points Inventory Calendar.


----------



## Quilter

mvc said:


> Can I make a reservation at Newport for my owned week, that is not points but is enrolled in the destination program, 1 day and 13 months out?



Like Sue said, if your 2 weeks are the same season you could book them 13 months out (consecutive or concurrent).  You can later change one of the reservations to another date.  This is where it's a little tricky.  Changing a reservation can cancel the rest of the 13-month reservations.  

For example, if you reserve June 10th and June 17th, 2016 you can call May 11, 2015 to make the consecutive reservation, but you can't cancel/change the June 10, 2016 until after the 12-month inventory release of June 17, 2015 or you will lose the June 17, 2016 reservation.


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## JIMinNC

mvc said:


> Can I make a reservation at Newport for my owned week, that is not points but is enrolled in the destination program, 1 day and 13 months out?



I want to make sure you are not misinterpreting what the Executive Level 13 months/1 day reservation window is...what it means is at 13 months out, you can use your points to reserve *single night* reservations (or any number of nights from 1 on up) instead of being limited to full seven-night weeks.

From your post above, it almost sounds like you were thinking it means you can make a reservation 13 months and one day in advance of check-in. That is not the case.



mvc said:


> Thank you for the information.I will soon be executive level. I own 2 weeks in Newport and have some points. To take advantage of the 1 day 13 month reservation window to make a reservation for a week at Newport is it correct that I would need to transfere my owned week into destination points?



The answer to this is yes; if you want to be able to take advantage of the Executive Level reservation window at 13 months, the week for that year must have been elected for Destination Points. Then on the appropriate inventory release day for your travel date you can reserve as many days as your points will allow - from one night all the way up to a full week (or more if you have enough points).


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## Fasttr

JIMinNC said:


> The answer to this is yes; if you want to be able to take advantage of the Executive Level reservation window at 13 months, the week for that year must have been elected for Destination Points. Then on the appropriate inventory release day for your travel date you can reserve as many days as your points will allow - from one night all the way up to a full week (or more if you have enough points).



Is this correct?  I thought the status level in the DC was based on the points assigned to your enrolled weeks and had nothing to do with whether you actually swapped them for points or not in any given year.  Lets say I am Executive but never ever swap my week for points.  I rent some points as I want to add 1 night onto my normal week that I will soon book via the traditional week reservation system.  It is my understanding that I could book that 1 night 13 months out with my rented points via the DC, and then at 12 months out, I would book my week via the traditional weeks ressie method, hopefully matching them up exactly so I can have 8 nights in total.  Am I mistaken?


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## Cmore

Fasttr said:


> Is this correct?  I thought the status level in the DC was based on the points assigned to your enrolled weeks and had nothing to do with whether you actually swapped them for points or not in any given year.  Lets say I am Executive but never ever swap my week for points.  I rent some points as I want to add 1 night onto my normal week that I will soon book via the traditional week reservation system.  It is my understanding that I could book that 1 night 13 months out with my rented points via the DC, and then at 12 months out, I would book my week via the traditional weeks ressie method, hopefully matching them up exactly so I can have 8 nights in total.  Am I mistaken?



My understanding is the same as yours.  Online I am currenly listed as "Premier" and that doesn't at all seem to be related to whether or not I elect points with my enrolled weeks.


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## JIMinNC

JIMinNC said:
			
		

> The answer to this is yes; if you want to be able to take advantage of the Executive Level reservation window at 13 months, the week for that year must have been elected for Destination Points. Then on the appropriate inventory release day for your travel date you can reserve as many days as your points will allow - from one night all the way up to a full week (or more if you have enough points).





Fasttr said:


> Is this correct?  I thought the status level in the DC was based on the points assigned to your enrolled weeks and had nothing to do with whether you actually swapped them for points or not in any given year.  Lets say I am Executive but never ever swap my week for points.  I rent some points as I want to add 1 night onto my normal week that I will soon book via the traditional week reservation system.  It is my understanding that I could book that 1 night 13 months out with my rented points via the DC, and then at 12 months out, I would book my week via the traditional weeks ressie method, hopefully matching them up exactly so I can have 8 nights in total.  Am I mistaken?



My understanding is the same as yours. I just didn't word my reply above very well - what I was trying to say was that if "mvc" wanted to make a single week reservation at 13 months out instead of at 12 months out (as can be done in the weeks system) my understanding is the only way to do that is to be at Executive or above, elect points for that week, and make the full week reservation with points (or book multiple weeks through the weeks system as others have noted). Isn't that correct?

Since "mvc" seemed to be asking questions about booking a full week (post #238 and #240), my assumption was the question was not about booking smaller, less than a week reservations, but was about booking a full week at 13 months out.


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## Fasttr

JIMinNC said:


> My understanding is the same as yours. I just didn't word my reply above very well - what I was trying to say was that if "mvc" wanted to make a single week reservation at 13 months out instead of at 12 months out (as can be done in the weeks system) my understanding is the only way to do that is to be at Executive or above, elect points for that week, and make the full week reservation with points (or book multiple weeks through the weeks system as others have noted). Isn't that correct?
> 
> Since "mvc" seemed to be asking questions about booking a full week (post #238 and #240), my assumption was the question was not about booking smaller, less than a week reservations, but was about booking a full week at 13 months out.



Understood.  I guess mvc's "1 day 13 month" wording was making be believe he wanted to add less than a week onto his week, but after I re-read his comment and yours, I see where you were coming from now.


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## SueDonJ

**With the changes happening next week, bumping this thread so that it sits on the first page of the forum through the effective date.**


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## jancurious

*New Program - Summarizing the changes*

I was hoping to start this thread to have people contribute what they have learned about the new program in one place.  I find reading the document to be a bit overwhelming and after calling a Marriott advisor, there does not seem to be a lot of changes (at least for my status - Chairman's Club)

Since I am enrolled, my June 30th date for banking changed to August 30th and my September 30 date for turning in weeks for points went to November 30th.  I can still call 13 months out for as little as 1 night (no change).  I asked about the 2 year banking and it appears the length of banking hasn't changed - 2016 points would be good until 12/31/17.  She said it is just automatic now.  If that is so, why do we need to even worry about that new August 30th date?  

Jan


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## SueDonJ

jancurious said:


> I was hoping to start this thread to have people contribute what they have learned about the new program in one place.  I find reading the document to be a bit overwhelming and after calling a Marriott advisor, there does not seem to be a lot of changes (at least for my status - Chairman's Club)
> 
> Since I am enrolled, my June 30th date for banking changed to August 30th and my September 30 date for turning in weeks for points went to November 30th.  I can still call 13 months out for as little as 1 night (no change).  I asked about the 2 year banking and it appears the length of banking hasn't changed - 2016 points would be good until 12/31/17.  She said it is just automatic now.  If that is so, why do we need to even worry about that new August 30th date?
> 
> Jan



I don't think what she said about the 2-year banking period is correct.  If 2016 Points with a Jan1-Dec31 Use Year are banked by a Member eligible for the extended two-year banking period, they're good for stays commencing anytime 1/1/17 - 12/31/18 (and not 1/1/16 - 12/31/17 as she asserted.)  Also, banking is not an automatic transaction - if the DC Member doesn't authorize the transaction (either through the online system or a phone call to Owner Services) prior to the banking deadline, the Points will expire as of the last day of their original Use Year (in this case, 12/31/16.)

I'm still unclear on what happens if you book a stay using two-year banked Points and then subsequently cancel it more than 60 days out from check-in (thus not restricted to a Holding Account,) but about the two things above there's no question in my mind based on discussions I've had with someone in the exec offices.


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## jancurious

Well that makes sense why there is still a date of August 30th now.  I'm amazed they haven't trained the advisors better at this point.........

Jan


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## jeepie

*Dates*

I believe the correct dates are in Red:


jancurious said:


> ...my June 30th date for banking changed to August 30th (August 31st)and my September 30 date for turning in weeks for points went to November 30th(October 31st).  I can still call 13 months out for as little as 1 night (no change).  I asked about the 2 year banking and it appears the length of banking hasn't changed - 2016 points would be good until 12/31/17(12/31/18).She said it is just automatic now.  If that is so, why do we need to even worry about that new August 30th date?
> 
> Jan



Cheers.


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## dioxide45

Perhaps by "automatic" they mean that when you bank, the points are automatically banked for two years instead of one? You don't need to call again next year to bank for the second year?


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## MALC9990

dioxide45 said:


> Perhaps by "automatic" they mean that when you bank, the points are automatically banked for two years instead of one? You don't need to call again next year to bank for the second year?



That is my experience. I banked my remaining 2015 points a few weeks ago. They now show in my account as being valid from 1st Jan 2016 to 31st Dec 2017.


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## SueDonJ

MVW has responded to the few questions raised in this thread that I brought to their attention, and given their permission for the responses to be quoted on TUG.

It was pointed out to them that two TUGgers got contradictory responses as to the rules following cancellations of reservations made with Banked Points, and that neither response appeared to make any sense.  Their response, applicable to all three 12/18/24-months Banking periods:


> *Reservations cancelled 61 days or more prior to the check-in date are returned to the Owner’s account and may be used again prior to the (banked) expiration date.  However, in the case of an Advance Priority Reservation, the Points required as the premium for the reservation will be returned to the Owner’s Holding Account and subject to the restrictions on Holding Accounts.
> 
> If, the owner cancels a reservation from 60 to 1 days prior to the check-in, the Points will be returned in to the Owner’s Holding Account, but they would still have until the (banked) expiration date to use them, and the Points used for the premium for an Advance Priority Reservation will be forfeited.*



*********

After receiving a response in February that the 10% Chase Marriott VISA component would still be in effect for discount cash stays following the new status tiers, I questioned why we weren't seeing any related codes and why the reps weren't saying the same thing I'd been told.  The contradiction was acknowledged but this is the most recent response my contact has gotten:


> *The Owner’s Discount can no longer be combined with any other discounts or offers.*



This isn't a surprise because of what we've been seeing but it's disappointing all the same.  As follow-up I've asked if this is a Chase or MVW directive, and if there will be an effort to reinstate a similar component.  I'll let you know when/if they respond.

The Points FAQ will be edited to reflect these items.


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## jancurious

The last emailed Marriott Vacation Club Insider newsletter had a link that I think summarizes everything pretty well in terms of dates and benefits by level:

http://image.email1.marriott-vacati...5067c7d/m/1/131892_19_OwnerBenefitsChrtWB.pdf



Jan


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## dioxide45

SueDonJ said:


> MVW has responded to the few questions raised in this thread that I brought to their attention, and given their permission for the responses to be quoted on TUG.
> 
> It was pointed out to them that two TUGgers got contradictory responses as to the rules following cancellations of reservations made with Banked Points, and that neither response appeared to make any sense.  Their response, applicable to all three 12/18/24-months Banking periods:
> 
> 
> *********
> 
> After receiving a response in February that the 10% Chase Marriott VISA component would still be in effect for discount cash stays following the new status tiers, I questioned why we weren't seeing any related codes and why the reps weren't saying the same thing I'd been told.  The contradiction was acknowledged but this is the most recent response my contact has gotten:
> 
> 
> This isn't a surprise because of what we've been seeing but it's disappointing all the same.  As follow-up I've asked if this is a Chase or MVW directive, and if there will be an effort to reinstate a similar component.  I'll let you know when/if they respond.
> 
> The Points FAQ will be edited to reflect these items.



This wasn't really the answer I was looking for. Seems more like a cop out answer. They really didn't say anything that wasn't already in the terms and conditions. Why not just say the additional Visa discount no longer applies? I get the impression that they goofed up big time on this and don't really know what to say. They can't seem to explain why it was taken away.

In the past, it wasn't like one was combining two discounts when they used MOD, there were just two available rates. One for holders of the MR Visa and the other without.


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## SueDonJ

dioxide45 said:


> This wasn't really the answer I was looking for. Seems more like a cop out answer. They really didn't say anything that wasn't already in the terms and conditions. Why not just say the additional Visa discount no longer applies? I get the impression that they goofed up big time on this and don't really know what to say. They can't seem to explain why it was taken away.
> 
> In the past, it wasn't like one was combining two discounts when they used MOD, there were just two available rates. One for holders of the MR Visa and the other without.



I agree, and hope that they'll answer the follow-up question of whether this loss was directed by MVW or Chase.  It won't be a surprise, though, if they leave the question unanswered.


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## SueDonJ

I noticed today after adding a guest's name to a reservation that our DC status tier is still indicated on the confirmation issued by Owner Services as "Premier Plus" rather than the change effective April '15.  It's not a big deal but I'm wondering if others are seeing the same type of thing?


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## BobG7734

I just checked a recent DC point reservation I made and the confirmation does not show any status....where is it on the form?

Also, to add a guest name do you have to call Owner Svc or can that be one online?

Thx


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## suzannesimon

SueDonJ said:


> I noticed today after adding a guest's name to a reservation that our DC status tier is still indicated on the confirmation issued by Owner Services as "Premier Plus" rather than the change effective April '15.  It's not a big deal but I'm wondering if others are seeing the same type of thing?



Yes I just checked my Grande Ocean that I rented and it is still there also - I'm "Gold Elite".


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## suzannesimon

I don't know why it says Gold Elite.  I'm Gold for Marriott Rewards,  and Presidential for the Destination Club.


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## GreenTea

I think my reservations have always shown my MR status, not my MVC Status...of which I have none


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## SueDonJ

rcgrogan said:


> I just checked a recent DC point reservation I made and the confirmation does not show any status....where is it on the form?
> 
> Also, to add a guest name do you have to call Owner Svc or can that be one online?
> 
> Thx





suzannesimon said:


> Yes I just checked my Grande Ocean that I rented and it is still there also - I'm "Gold Elite".



This is an email confirmation from the "Marriott Vacation Club Intl Reservations" email address.  At the bottom of the "Room Details" section under "Request Noted" it says, "MVCI Premier Pls Pts Owner."  I've never requested DC status to be noted but seem to remember that it's been included in that field since the DC inception.  What I noticed today isn't that the notation is new, but that the terminology hasn't changed with the changes effective April '15.

If your Marriott Rewards Number is attached to your reservations it shows up regularly on confirmation notices generated by both Marriott Vacation Club and Marriott Intl - that's why MVCI stays booked using Weeks or Points show up in your marriottrewards.com account.  On today's email confirmation my MR info is indicated towards the bottom under "Your Rewards Information."

I don't believe it's possible to instantly add guests' names to reservations on my-vacationclub.com, but it can be done through the website's email contact links or "Click to Chat" feature (what I used today.)


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## BobG7734

OK..I was looking at one of the other confirmations (they seem to send out 3!).  On the one you are referring to my status is correct at Presidential.

Thanks for the info re. guest name


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## sparty

GregT said:


> _***Note with the OP's permission this post and replies to it have been moved from the Global points system thread where possible changes to the DC status tiers were first discussed.***  <--- SueDonJ_
> 
> All,
> 
> Here is the info on the new levels.   They've created four new levels:
> 
> Select (4,000 - 6,999 points)
> Executive (7,000 - 9,999 points)
> Presidential (10,000 - 14,999 points)
> Chairman's Club (15,000 points +)
> 
> It looks like Executive (the new 7,000 point level) is effectively the same as the old _Premier Plus_.   Everyone with Premier is now grandfathered into Executive.  This is an important change for the former Premier owner.
> 
> The new Chairman's Club (the new 15,000 point level) has two years for banked points, and an extra month for the decision to bank (ie, October versus September).  Premier Plus is grandfathered to CC.
> 
> Presidential -- in between Executive and Chairman's Club -- provides points to be banked for 18 months and also allows the extra month for the banking decision.
> 
> I don't think the changes are that significant -- most interesting is the expansion of 1+ day reservations 13 months out (the best thing about Premier Plus) is now extended down to Executive.  That's a powerful feature for Executive, just as it used to be for PP.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Greg



I wasn't able to quickly find an answer to this in searching threads: 

Are resale points not recognized or recognized differently than developer points with respect to Vacation Club elite levels?


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## SueDonJ

sparty said:


> I wasn't able to quickly find an answer to this in searching threads:
> 
> Are resale points not recognized or recognized differently than developer points with respect to Vacation Club elite levels?



No, resale Points aren't recognized differently for status purposes.  DC Status levels are based on the combined total of Trust Points purchased from Marriott and any re-sellers, plus the Exchange Points values of any Enrolled Weeks.


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