# New Starwood Owner



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the boards and have read through the posts and have a couple of questions regarding the vacation ownership we just purchased in Maui- bi annually beacuse of the lower maintenace fees.   Hope you can all help.

We just got back yesterday and after reviewing all the information we are not sure we made the right decision about purchasing in Hawaii and still have the time to rescind.  We think we may be better of purchasing the Harborside yearly now that we have had a chance to go over everything.  The flight from Toronto to Nassau is a lot shorter and the flights would be a little less expensive.  Going to Hawaii for one week over the march break with a 12 hour flight/stop over is out of the question.  When we called the Harborside resort they informed me that we could purchase a year ownership in the bahamas for march break season and christmas for $52,900 2BLO and $2100 M/F.  The M/F would be the same as Hawaii but $3,000 less total cost over Princeville.  Now we're torn and would like your advice.  The Star Options are the same but we would get 13,900 more starpoints at harborside.  Christmas/New years is not included in Princevill but could be purchased for Harborside and we could use them during our break. 

We like the Starwood program because it gives us the option to cahnge the star options to star points and use them for stays in Europe during the summer if we decide not to go to the bahams during the winter break.

We're just not sure whether investing in Hawaii or the bahamas now is the right choice?  For $3000 more we could own in Hawaii with the same M/F but would most likely be covnerting the points every year and using them for star points-which i'm not sure makes much sense.  

Are there any other ownership resorts that offer 148,00 SO with less maintenace fees?  Knowing that we would most likely need to travel a week in March or 1 week over christmas/n.y does it make more sense to purchase the platinum weeks at the Bahamas?  

If we don't purchase the platinum weeks, how easy will be to get a week in March and a week over the christmas break?

Sorry for the long winded posts and the many typos I'm sure I made (jet-lag) but any information you could send along would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Caroline


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 14, 2008)

First, Welcome to Tug and welcome to the Starwood Forum. 

Recind, Recind, Recind.....You already know that Hawaii is not the right ownership for you. 

Second, buy resale at Harborside. Its a Mandatory resort, so the staroptions transfer with it. But you lose the ability to exchange for sterpoints. You can buy Harborside 2 bedroom l/o platinum for about $30k. Also, trading into Harborside is unlikely, so if that is when you want to go, buy that time period.

The cheapest 148,100 staroption resort is West Kierland, mf of $1200. The resort is sold out, so resale is the only option. 

There are lots of options that you can go here. I would recommend that you read some more here on tug and ask away.


----------



## calgarygary (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm new to the boards and have read through the posts and have a couple of questions regarding the vacation ownership we just purchased in Maui- bi annually beacuse of the lower maintenace fees.   Hope you can all help.
> 
> ...



The statement above that I have highlighted in bold tells me that you are not ready to purchase.  A timeshare should never be considered an investment.  Rescind now, educate yourselves, the timeshares will still be available when you are better ready to make such a commitment.


----------



## SDKath (Jul 14, 2008)

Agree!  First RESCIND (ASAP) and make sure you send a fax as well as a certified letter and follow the instructions EXACTLY as outlined in your contract.

Then do a bit of research to see where is the best place to own and buy.  Resale is more than 1/2 price of buying direct from Starwood with most of the benefits of a new ownership, especially if you buy at a mandatory resort where you will get your SOs even on a resale purchase.

If you are interested in Harborside or St John, those are next to impossible to trade into via SOs or II during Spring Break or New Year.  So you will definitely want to own AT that resort to have a chance to stay there.

Converting these expensive TSs to SPs (the hotel points) is not going to make sense due to the high MFs and high initial costs.  

Take a look at the excellent FAQ on the top of the board that was compiled over a number of years by the TUG "experts" on Starwood.

Also, remember, you can ALWAYS rescind and call Starwood and purchase again.  No deal is ever a "one time only" type of deal with them.  So even if after all the research you decide to buy directly from Starwood, you will likely get the same exact deal or an even better one!  Don't let the sales reps tell you otherwise.  

Katherine


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jul 14, 2008)

As a newbie - simply follow the 3 'R's

Rescind
Research
Resale

Do not delay in the 1st R -  RESCIND - before it is too late to do so.

Be glad you found TUG before the rescinding period is over (many do not).

Buying a Timeshare is an investment in Vacation - not Real Estate.  Understanding the difference between these is paramount to the enjoyment of your 'investment'.


----------



## SDKath (Jul 14, 2008)

Forgot to add, "investment" is not a term you want to use around TSs right now, especially in Hawaii.  Resales in Hawaii have fallen tremendously due to the economy and the 2 airlines that have gone bankrupt in the last 6 months, forcing airline tickets over $1000 per person even 1 year out!

Resale prices are about 30% of "retail" price right now in Hawaii.   

Starwood was also just downgraded by one of the major investment firms to "sell" status thanks to the horrible economy and general downturn in travel, plus their relatively poor management of their TS business (ie increasing most of their prices 10% on July 1 despite the incredibly slow economy).

Katherine


----------



## Beaglemom3 (Jul 14, 2008)

I just did very well on a resale, but will not get Starpoints and that works for me. I will get Staroptions, though.

Please rescind as there are better units at better prices out there.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

And thank you for your quick replies.   We have thought about it and rescinding does make the most sense for us now.  I wanted to express how we were looking at using the timeshare to see if it make sense.  We are frequent travellers, age group (36-43) and traveller 1 week during march, 1 week at christmas and a week or two over the summer.  We liked the flexibilty that the starwood ownership offered.  We could visit bahams, maui, st johns, scottsdale etc while at the same time converting to starpoints for hotels which would all be locked in to todays prices. I'm gathering from these boards that it is not as easy as the salesperson made it to be to visit the different properties from year to year.  It seems that it is all based on an exchange time system.  Does buying an ownership to convert to star options every second year make any sense?  We really like the flexibility of being able to visit the different villa destinations and all the hotel properties that are available to us?   I may have used the investment term incorrectly, we have never looked at this as a true investement but rather an investment in our vacation by locking into todays prices.  I also wanted to add that we are Canadian, so the Dollar is very favourable now and we could afford to make a vacation investment now.

Thanks again for all your help.

Caroline


----------



## SDKath (Jul 14, 2008)

You sound just like me.  Same age group, same desire to use the Starwood system including the hotels.  Keep reading, including the possibility of "retro-ing" a resale purchase by buying a new one -- that gives you access to the Starpoint system ultimately, which is something I too like having, to be honest.

Also, consider calling the Starwood central sales group.  A number of less expensive options exist now for purchase (such as buying in Orlando where MFs are only $800 per month) and converting those units to SPs or SOs.

Feel free to PM me for more info.  You can't go wrong by pulling out of this deal right now before you lose $40,000 or so.  Then you can always repurchase at any time.  

Katherine


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 14, 2008)

Caroline

We are in a similar situation as you. We are in your age bracket, travel once a season, sometimes twice. We bought our first unit, pre tug. We were lucky and bought Kierland for $30k. 

There are alot of strategies you can do to get the unit you want and still get the staroptions for less money then your one Hawaii purchase. Hawaii is getting easier and easier to trade into right now. The more they build, the more opportunity you will have. 

We found a 2 bedroom l/o gold season, phase 2 at Harborside for our friends to buy. They have negotiated the price down to $17,500. The developer is selling that unit for $46k. 

Tom


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

SDKath said:


> You sound just like me.  Same age group, same desire to use the Starwood system including the hotels.  Keep reading, including the possibility of "retro-ing" a resale purchase by buying a new one -- that gives you access to the Starpoint system ultimately, which is something I too like having, to be honest.
> 
> Also, consider calling the Starwood central sales group.  A number of less expensive options exist now for purchase (such as buying in Orlando where MFs are only $800 per month) and converting those units to SPs or SOs.
> 
> ...



Did you mean $800 per year?  Princevill is $2100 per year.

Thanks!

Caroline


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 14, 2008)

She did...........


----------



## vacationtime1 (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> We could visit bahams, maui, st johns, scottsdale etc while at the same time converting to starpoints for hotels which would all be locked in to todays prices.



I originally purchased Princeville from the developer, found TUG in time, rescinded, and then bought resale.  My thoughts:

1.  Don't purchase with the intent to exchange.  Although exchanges are certainly possible, they are not automatic, they require flexibility in travel plans and times, and they are not why you propose to spend $50,000+ for an ultra-high end developer purchase.

2.  All StarOptions are created equal, at least for exchange purposes.  To the extent you may exchange, the 148,100 StarOptions you receive in connection with a Westin Kierland (Scottsdale) purchased resale for $20,000-$23,000 will do exactly the same thing as the 148,100 StarOptions received in connection with a Hawaii property (and as others have stated, the MF's are 40% less).  And to the extent you do visit Scottsdale, you will enjoy staying there even more knowing you paid Arizona prices rather than Hawaii prices.

3.  Consider purchasing an alternate year for your Hawaii trips if you truly intend to visit Hawaii half the time; resale, of course.

4.  StarPoints will not lock you into today's hotel prices.  Starwood devalues the StarPoint by re-classifying hotels into higher categories.  For example, two summers ago, we stayed at the Princeville Hotel for 13,500 StarPoints per night.  Next year, it will be a St. Regis and cost 25,000 points per night.

5.  Rescind, research, and then buy resale.  Take your time; your Canadian dollars will be just as strong in a few months.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

tomandrobin said:


> Caroline
> 
> We are in a similar situation as you. We are in your age bracket, travel once a season, sometimes twice. We bought our first unit, pre tug. We were lucky and bought Kierland for $30k.
> 
> ...



That's a great price.  Is gold season March Break Break and Christmas?  We won't be able to convert to starpoints though. That is something we really liked about the program.  I'm gathering from this board though that converting SO to SP isn't in your best interest.

Thanks for the response.

Caroline


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

*Cancelling*

The Mutual Right of Cancellation states that " to cancel this transcation, mail or deliver a signed and dated copy of this cancellation notice or any other written notice or send a telegram to: SVO Pacific Inc.  "

It doesn't have a fax number so a registered mailed copy not using the originals should do?  i also read in the sticky notes that I should copy and send the first page of the agreement.

Thanks,

Caroline


----------



## grgs (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> Did you mean $800 per year?  Princevill is $2100 per year.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Caroline



You might be able to get 81,000 SOs in Orlando for $800 (but it's probably around $950 when you add in property taxes).

The least expensive mf for 148,100 SOs at is Westin Kierland at just over $1200.

Glorian


----------



## ira g (Jul 14, 2008)

RESCIND, RESCIND, RESCIND


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

4.  StarPoints will not lock you into today's hotel prices.  Starwood devalues the StarPoint by re-classifying hotels into higher categories.  For example, two summers ago, we stayed at the Princeville Hotel for 13,500 StarPoints per night.  Next year, it will be a St. Regis and cost 25,000 points per night.

So i guess it will be more expesnive to stay.  I think I'm getting the hang of this   If you plan on vacationing in Princeville/Hawaii yearly then buying a timeshare would make sense.  But if you travel anywhere and eveywhere then maybe its doesn't make the best sense for you.   Exchanging your weeks during peak periods is difficult and converting to starpoints isnt the right reason for buying a time share.  But on the other side, if you could rent that place out yearly for a couple of years wouldn't that pay for your vacation investment.

Caroline


----------



## Transit (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> if you could rent that place out yearly for a couple of years wouldn't that pay for your vacation investment.
> 
> Caroline



Your on the right track but keep reading.( There is a ton of Starwood Info to digest here) Renting is not as easy as it seems especially in tough times and for someone new to the game.


----------



## BradC (Jul 14, 2008)

One more piece of advice:  if you like having Starpoints for hotel stays (most of us here do), get the Starwood co-branded credit card.  The Canadian version is from MBNA that gives you one Starpoint for every $2 you spend, with no annual fee.

We use our Starwood credit card for nearly everything, and the points really add up.


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> 4.  StarPoints will not lock you into today's hotel prices.  Starwood devalues the StarPoint by re-classifying hotels into higher categories.  For example, two summers ago, we stayed at the Princeville Hotel for 13,500 StarPoints per night.  Next year, it will be a St. Regis and cost 25,000 points per night.
> 
> So i guess it will be more expesnive to stay.  I think I'm getting the hang of this   If you plan on vacationing in Princeville/Hawaii yearly then buying a timeshare would make sense.  But if you travel anywhere and eveywhere then maybe its doesn't make the best sense for you.   Exchanging your weeks during peak periods is difficult and converting to starpoints isnt the right reason for buying a time share.  But on the other side, if you could rent that place out yearly for a couple of years wouldn't that pay for your vacation investment.
> 
> Caroline



Caroline

Have you looked at EOY purchases? We bought EOY units at some of the places we like, but don't plan on going every year. 

I would not discount Starpoint use entirely. Buying Harborside for SP use, is not good because of the high purchase cost and high maintenance fees. You can get a Kierland resale for about $20k. Buy a EOY from the developer, requalify the Kierland to have the ability to use either its staroptions or convert to Starpoints for Europe.

Tom


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

tomandrobin said:


> Caroline
> 
> Have you looked at EOY purchases? We bought EOY units at some of the places we like, but don't plan on going every year.
> 
> ...



I have no idea what an EOY is and what does requalifying mean??? 
Caroline


----------



## vacationtime1 (Jul 14, 2008)

EOY = "every other year" usage 

For requalification, see: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24046


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 14, 2008)

Sorry

EOY - Every Other Year. Requalify - Means that you can buy a developer unit and requalify a resale unit. A requalified unit has the same use as a developer unit, full use of staroptions and starpoints. 

The threads at the top of the page talks about the process.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks!  There is so much information on here!   

Caroline


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 14, 2008)

An Every Other Year unit gives you use of the unit every even year 
(2008, 2010, 2012, etc) and odd year usafe (2009, 2011, 2013, etc).

Oh, I forgot to mention that the maintenance fees are half every year.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

ok i read the thread but i still don't get it.  Sorry.    

I want to the flexibility to convert to starpoints so I buy a resale for Kierland and an EOY from a developer and ask them to requalify my kierland purchase???  If it's 20,000-$25,000 for Kierland how much would an EOY be at Harborside?  Would I then have the StarOptions for both properties to convert to Starpoints?  What is an inexpensive EOY?

Thanks so much.  The information and advice from everyone has been incredible.

Caroline


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

That's what we bought in Maui- $36,900 for every other year and $975 maintenance fees every year.

Caroline


----------



## calgarygary (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> That's what we bought in Maui- $36,900 for every other year and $975 maintenance fees every year.
> 
> Caroline



This is why you need to rescind and then educate yourself so that you will know in the future not to pay more than twice what you would on the resale market.  You can view resales on ebay through this thread.  You will quickly realize that you paid more than twice what some have.  Buying from the developer for the purpose of renting (which I thought you mentioned in an earlier post) is not a financially viable idea.  Buying for the purpose of using starpoints (not staroptions) is also a poor plan as you can expect future devaluations of their value. 

After you have educated yourself about the in/outs of timeshares and Starwood then you can decide if SVN is best for you and finally decide which *resale* will best meet your needs.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

calgarygary said:


> This is why you need to rescind and then educate yourself so that you will know in the future not to pay more than twice what you would on the resale market.  You can view resales on ebay through this thread.  You will quickly realize that you paid more than twice what some have.  Buying from the developer for the purpose of renting (which I thought you mentioned in an earlier post) is not a financially viable idea.  Buying for the purpose of using starpoints (not staroptions) is also a poor plan as you can expect future devaluations of their value.
> 
> After you have educated yourself about the in/outs of timeshares and Starwood then you can decide if SVN is best for you and finally decide which *resale* will best meet your needs.





That's what I'm doing    Thanks to this board  

Caroline


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 14, 2008)

Wow, this is a lot for a new t/s buyer to understand quickly. Hopefully, you've started the cancellation process. I would suggest you focus on that process, make sure you get it done right (yes, send the cancellation multiple ways to SVN - postal/FedEx (signed return receipt), FAX, email, more). Make sure you're prepared for the sales rep to call you and pressure you to stay - JUST SAY NO. 

Once you complete the process, then take some time and read everything and learn more about the options.  There are plenty of choices, and I think everyone here will agree you've picked a great time to buy - it's a buyer's market for t/s resales right now. 

Good luck!


----------



## SDKath (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> ok i read the thread but i still don't get it.  Sorry.
> 
> I want to the flexibility to convert to starpoints so I buy a resale for Kierland and an EOY from a developer and ask them to requalify my kierland purchase???  If it's 20,000-$25,000 for Kierland how much would an EOY be at Harborside?  Would I then have the StarOptions for both properties to convert to Starpoints?  What is an inexpensive EOY?
> 
> ...



YES!  You got it.  There is a price list here http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=488890&postcount=11 so you can look at all the options.  You need to spend $20,000 with Starwood in order to requalify a resale.  You don't have to buy Kierland if you are gonna requalify.  Kierland is mandatory so it's more expensive in general.  But if you requalify it, it doesn't matter if it's M or V that you own.  

Let's say you buy WMH Platinum.  That is also 148,100 SOs.  You can buy that for around $10,000.  Then requalify it with an EOY purchase (or actually any purchase over $20,000) from Starwood and all of a sudden you have SPs and SOs for both units.

Hope that makes sense!  Katherine


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

SDKath said:


> YES!  You got it.  There is a price list here http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=488890&postcount=11 so you can look at all the options.  You need to spend $20,000 with Starwood in order to requalify a resale.  You don't have to buy Kierland if you are gonna requalify.  Kierland is mandatory so it's more expensive in general.  But if you requalify it, it doesn't matter if it's M or V that you own.
> 
> Let's say you buy WMH Platinum.  That is also 148,100 SOs.  You can buy that for around $10,000.  Then requalify it with an EOY purchase (or actually any purchase over $20,000) from Starwood and all of a sudden you have SPs and SOs for both units.
> 
> Hope that makes sense!  Katherine



Thanks!  What does WMH mean?


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> Wow, this is a lot for a new t/s buyer to understand quickly. Hopefully, you've started the cancellation process. I would suggest you focus on that process, make sure you get it done right (yes, send the cancellation multiple ways to SVN - postal/FedEx (signed return receipt), FAX, email, more). Make sure you're prepared for the sales rep to call you and pressure you to stay - JUST SAY NO.
> 
> Once you complete the process, then take some time and read everything and learn more about the options.  There are plenty of choices, and I think everyone here will agree you've picked a great time to buy - it's a buyer's market for t/s resales right now.
> 
> Good luck!




The cancellation form has been signed and will sent registered mail tomorrow.  I have until the 18th to cancel.  There is no email or telephone number but I will try searching for it online.   i bought in maui but it says to mail to SVO pacific in orlando.  I hope I can find the email or telephone/fax number online.

Caroline


----------



## capjak (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> Thanks!  What does WMH mean?



WMH Westin Mission Hills


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

capjak said:


> WMH Westin Mission Hills




Thanks


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> That's what I'm doing    Thanks to this board
> 
> Caroline




perfect -

unfortunately - it is much more complicated.

why do u want to requal?
for points conversion?
then buy as cheap as possible as many points you can (and staroptions) for as cheap as possible - and consider MFs - and other values - reasle - rent - desirability.

WKV is a great resort and we own 2 VOIs there (1Bd Plat - prem 81K SOs) - but bought to stay, or SVN exchange - and even to rent as a back-up.

but...
depends on your needs...

if you are requaling for Elite status - then you need to take into how to get there as cheap as possible

then there is II exchanging - this is a science on its on...

and there is always buy where you want to go - and enjoy.

best - read and ask


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> perfect -
> 
> unfortunately - it is much more complicated.
> 
> ...




It sure is complicated!  Who knew there was a whole other time share world out there!

We like the Westin product and travel extensively so we thought a starwood ownership plan would be best for us.  No we are exploring how to get the largest amount of SO that can be converted to SP(for the years we decide to use thier hotels) at the best price and lowest M/F.  I can see us alternating years between the bahamas, st john and arizona villas (although getting into these properties may be difficult) and using starpoints every couple of years for hotel travel.   

I'm still not sure if investing in the westin product is right for us but it will sure be fun trying to figure it out.  This board is crazy with information.    I think i've been on here most of the day.


I believe someone else may have answered this question but was is your opinion.  What is the cheapest way to get the most SO/SP with the lowest maintenance fees?  


Caroline


----------



## clsmit (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi, Caroline (Great name!)!

We're also in that same late boomer/Gen X demographic. So after you rescind, another thing to think about is to test some other timeshare companies out there by renting there. Many of them have deals where you can stay for cheap if you listen to their presentation. Or, you can just rent a property from here or ebay. Marriott's program is different from Starwood's, for example, but they have a similar combination of hotels and timeshares within their broader system. There's comparison chart in one of the stickies at the top of the Starwood board that can help you with an overview. So save your money, get the Starwood credit card if you think you're really going to stay with Starwood, and keep reading and asking questions! I'm a year into this adventure and have only just begun to learn how to work the system!

Carol (DD's name is Caroline!)


----------



## jasonb (Jul 14, 2008)

*Thanks!*




BradC said:


> The Canadian version is from MBNA that gives you one Starpoint for every $2 you spend, with no annual fee.



Brad, thanks so much for pointing this out - as a Canadian owner (almost  - in escrow) this will come in very handy, I think we will switch our cards over.

Jason
(Canadian Tug'er)


----------



## Troopers (Jul 14, 2008)

123traveller said:


> It sure is complicated!  Who knew there was a whole other time share world out there!



It's partially complicated because Starwood allows requals and retro's.  Unlike other timeshare programs, Starwood give owners these benefit opportunities, thus the need for "strategy".  There's certainly a lot to learn...my honest suggestion, BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO (this is timesharing principle 101).

Good luck.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 14, 2008)

R Chen said:


> It's partially complicated because Starwood allows requals and retro's.  Unlike other timeshare programs, Starwood give owners these benefit opportunities, thus the need for "strategy".  There's certainly a lot to learn...my honest suggestion, BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO (this is timesharing principle 101).
> 
> Good luck.




but what if you want to go everywhere?  A different villa every year or at lease alternating between every 3 years.  Would this really be possible for peak periods  (march Break, Christmas, Summer) if it isnt your home resort?  The information I have been gathering is it is not.

Caroline


----------



## Troopers (Jul 15, 2008)

123traveller said:


> but what if you want to go everywhere?  A different villa every year or at lease alternating between every 3 years.  Would this really be possible for peak periods  (march Break, Christmas, Summer) if it isnt your home resort?  The information I have been gathering is it is not.
> 
> Caroline



You are right.  I think Starwood's system is not tailored to fit your needs.  That's not to say that it can't be done but it requires some "work" (others here may call it a hobby) and additional dollars.

I'm a "basic" Starwood owner and it works great for me.  What I mean by basic is that I bought where we want to go every year.  I have no plans on going to others places (in lieu of my WKORV TS).  I simply want to go to my one week Maui trip year after year.  I love the product.  I have been looking for a second resale WKORV week and have been holding out.  I do not intend to retro/requal my week(s) nor trade it via II.  Thus, it's a very simply system (for me).


----------



## SDKath (Jul 15, 2008)

123traveller said:


> but what if you want to go everywhere?  A different villa every year or at lease alternating between every 3 years.  Would this really be possible for peak periods  (march Break, Christmas, Summer) if it isnt your home resort?  The information I have been gathering is it is not.
> 
> Caroline



It's definitely possible.  Marriott on the other hand is a nightmare.  If you don't call at 6am at EXACTLY 12 months out, you don't get your own resort reservation!  How crazy is that?

Starwood is MUCH more flexible.  However, the exceptions are Harborside and St. John.  If you want to go there during a peak week, you should consider owning there.  I would say own at St John because Harborside is going to be expanding and availability will open up a lot in the coming years.  But peak season at other resorts is readily available. For example, I had no trouble booking a week at Kierland in AZ for March 2009 just now.  I don't own there and called at 8 months out.  Easy.  So far, Princeville and Lagunamar are proving easy to get into as well.  WKORV is now much easier too due to the HI flight issues.  Orlando is almost always readily available.  So I would say you are safe as far as wanting to travel all over the place.

K


----------



## califgal (Jul 15, 2008)

You can't go to the Maui resort during the Chirstmas and New Year holiday unless you buy those specific weeks  which cost a premium..someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

Generally, it's not worth trading your staroptions into starpoints. Let's say you own a Maui  2 bdrm. lockoff unit worth 148,100 staroptions.  When you trade  into starpoints you get 81,000.  These days a basic , small , no view ,hotel room runs 12,000-15,000 for a resort property, sometimes depending on the area ,you'll pay 10,000, if you're lucky.  Remember you are also paying high maint. fees for the maui unit.  So you can see , generally,it's not a good value.  Occasionally it might be worth the splurge.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

I have another question if anyone is still reading this post  

When we went to the presentation the salesperson said that if we didnt want to go to our home  resort that year then we call and ask to have our points deposited (148,100) into our starwood bank and then book the resorts we want through the starwood rep.  From reading these posts, the word exchanging comes up a lot.  We thought it would be easy to call up and use our 148,000 points to book various resorts throughout the year.  For example- 25,800 for a 1 bedroom in kierland during weeks 28-35, 44,000 for a 1 bedroom in st john during weeks 21-42 and 67,100 for a 1 bedroom weeks 1-17.  (these rates are all from the package we received).  I'm getting the impression it's not like booking a hotel room but instead exchanging it with other owners.  So first those weeks have to be released by the owners, then 8 months out I have to call to see if these weeks are available by other owners, if they are not then not only have I lost the places i wanted to visit but also lost the reservation at my home resort...correct?

Caroline


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

califgal said:


> You can't go to the Maui resort during the Chirstmas and New Year holiday unless you buy those specific weeks  which cost a premium..someone please correct me if I'm wrong!
> 
> Generally, it's not worth trading your staroptions into starpoints. Let's say you own a Maui  2 bdrm. lockoff unit worth 148,100 staroptions.  When you trade  into starpoints you get 81,000.  These days a basic , small , no view ,hotel room runs 12,000-15,000 for a resort property, sometimes depending on the area ,you'll pay 10,000, if you're lucky.  Remember you are also paying high maint. fees for the maui unit.  So you can see , generally,it's not a good value.  Occasionally it might be worth the splurge.



yes, the fee did not include christmas and new years.


----------



## SDKath (Jul 15, 2008)

123traveller said:


> I have another question if anyone is still reading this post
> 
> When we went to the presentation the salesperson said that if we didnt want to go to our home  resort that year then we call and ask to have our points deposited (148,100) into our starwood bank and then book the resorts we want through the starwood rep.  From reading these posts, the word exchanging comes up a lot.  We thought it would be easy to call up and use our 148,000 points to book various resorts throughout the year.  For example- 25,800 for a 1 bedroom in kierland during weeks 28-35, 44,000 for a 1 bedroom in st john during weeks 21-42 and 67,100 for a 1 bedroom weeks 1-17.  (these rates are all from the package we received).  I'm getting the impression it's not like booking a hotel room but instead exchanging it with other owners.  So first those weeks have to be released by the owners, then 8 months out I have to call to see if these weeks are available by other owners, if they are not then not only have I lost the places i wanted to visit but also lost the reservation at my home resort...correct?
> 
> Caroline



Still reading.  You cannot get partial weeks unless you book less than 3 months out.  You can imagine how much less availability there is when you are trying to get peak season rooms at 3 months out.  You can book 1 week stays (or longer) at 8 months out (or 12 months if you own at the resort).  Some folks get 11-12 days in a 1BR instead of getting a 2BR LO.  This is a great feature.

I am about to call to get a longer stay in Lagunamar for next March for Spring break (8 months out) doing this exact technique.  We don't need a huge 2BR LO right now so we'd rather have a longer vacation in a 1BR.

These weeks don't need to be "released" by owners.  If you have the points and there is availability at the resort, the room is yours.  So it's not like an exchange with II, where someone gives up a room before you can have it.

Katherine


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

Thanks Katherine.  Some clarification on booking partial weeks until 3 months out.  Does breaking up your points over various weeks mean partial weeks? For example-  8 months out, I can book my StarOptions at another resort based on availablilty but I only use 100,000 so I can only begin booking for the additional 48,000 3 months before the desired booking date?  So really I book what I want and what is available at 8 months out and the balance of my points can only be booked 3 months out?  

Just out of curiosity if you are using starpoints are these based on a time system also.

Thanks,

Caroline


----------



## SDKath (Jul 15, 2008)

123traveller said:


> Thanks Katherine.  Some clarification on booking partial weeks until 3 months out.  Does breaking up your points over various weeks mean partial weeks? For example-  8 months out, I can book my StarOptions at another resort based on availablilty but I only use 100,000 so I can only begin booking for the additional 48,000 3 months before the desired booking date?  So really I book what I want and what is available at 8 months out and the balance of my points can only be booked 3 months out?
> 
> Just out of curiosity if you are using starpoints are these based on a time system also.
> 
> ...



Yes, you can use up most of your points and book a week at 8 months out and then use the remaining points for 3 month short term booking elsewhere.  But they have to be used up THAT year and don't carry over.  You can book stays more than 7 nights using SOs at 8 months too.  So for example you can call Starwood at 8 months and book 11 days at Kaanapali in a 1BD (you don't have to wait till those last 3 months to book the additional days).  But if your stay is less than 7 days, you can only book it 3 months out.  Clear as mud, right?

StarPoints are literally points.  If there is an available room in any Starwood hotel, you can book the room for as little as one night or as long as 25 nights (or close to that).  You can book a year in advance or the day before.  No blackout dates, which is great too.  You can also use Starpoints for airline miles and some services at resorts (lounge chaise rental...).

They expire in 6 years so they are very flexible.    Katherine


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 15, 2008)

123traveller said:


> Thanks Katherine.  Some clarification on booking partial weeks until 3 months out.  Does breaking up your points over various weeks mean partial weeks? For example-  8 months out, I can book my StarOptions at another resort based on availablilty but I only use 100,000 so I can only begin booking for the additional 48,000 3 months before the desired booking date?  So really I book what I want and what is available at 8 months out and the balance of my points can only be booked 3 months out?



You will always be able to book 8 months out for resorts other than the one at which you own. The only exception is if you reserve a unit and then cancel within 90 (?) days of the reservation - to then "re-use" those Options you must reserve within 90 days of the reservation. 



> Just out of curiosity if you are using starpoints are these based on a time system also.



StarPoints (ie. Hotel points) do not expire annually...if that's what your asking. If converting from a t/s they are available six years...if you acquire them in other ways (credit card, for instance) then there is no expiration.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 15, 2008)

I give up. Next time I see a post directed to Katherine, I'm going to wait a full 5 minutes to see if she posts first...


----------



## SDKath (Jul 15, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> I give up. Next time I see a post directed to Katherine, I'm going to wait a full 5 minutes to see if she posts first...



OK, it's all yours, Ken.  I am going to sleep.  ROFL!  :zzz: 

Katherine


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

SDKath said:


> Yes, you can use up most of your points and book a week at 8 months out and then use the remaining points for 3 month short term booking elsewhere.  But they have to be used up THAT year and don't carry over.  You can book stays more than 7 nights using SOs at 8 months too.  So for example you can call Starwood at 8 months and book 11 days at Kaanapali in a 1BD (you don't have to wait till those last 3 months to book the additional days).  But if your stay is less than 7 days, you can only book it 3 months out.  Clear as mud, right?
> 
> StarPoints are literally points.  If there is an available room in any Starwood hotel, you can book the room for as little as one night or as long as 25 nights (or close to that).  You can book a year in advance or the day before.  No blackout dates, which is great too.  You can also use Starpoints for airline miles and some services at resorts (lounge chaise rental...).
> 
> They expire in 6 years so they are very flexible.    Katherine



Got it    3 months out is for stays shorter than 7 days.  Originally I thought you meant the remaining points can only be used.  So technically if avaibale, I could book 7 days at one resort and 11 days at another resort at the 8 month mark.

Thanks..again!


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

okay ken, are you taking over?  Katherine is going to sleep and I am still getting over jet lag so I have an hour or so more to go, even though it's 2:45a.m here


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 15, 2008)

123traveller said:


> When we went to the presentation the salesperson said that if we didnt want to go to our home  resort that year then we call and ask to have our points deposited (148,100) into our starwood bank and then book the resorts we want through the starwood rep.



Actually, you don't have to do anything to get your StarOptions available for use elsewhere (btw, it's "SO's", not "points", as that is commonly used to refer to StarPoints for the hotel point plan). If you own a unit valued at 148,100 SO's, then each year you have that many Options available to use. If you book at your home resort, then that may use the value of your SO's and you won't have any left to use elsewhere.



> From reading these posts, the word exchanging comes up a lot.  We thought it would be easy to call up and use our 148,000 points to book various resorts throughout the year.  For example- 25,800 for a 1 bedroom in kierland during weeks 28-35, 44,000 for a 1 bedroom in st john during weeks 21-42 and 67,100 for a 1 bedroom weeks 1-17.  (these rates are all from the package we received).


Exactly correct. The only concern is if there will be availability at the resort when you want to visit. I can say now you won't have any problem getting Kierland between 28-35 (it's HOT in the summer there). 

FWIW, you'll probably find my posts elsewhere on this, but my use of my Platinum Kierland 148,100 SO week for 2008 is:

Princeville - Premium Studio for 1 week = 67,000 SO's
Cancun - Premium 1 Bed for 13 nights = 79,200 SO's
 - this can be done by arriving on Sunday and departing on a Saturday. at first, Starwood suggested arriving on Friday, but by simply changing my arrival day I was able to extend the trip three days for less Options

In 2006 I was able to use the 148,100 at three different resorts. It's not easy to make the SOs stretch to fit, nor to get the availability - but if you're willing to travel off-season (that's the only time I travel...I hate the crowds) you'll have little problem. 



> I'm getting the impression it's not like booking a hotel room but instead exchanging it with other owners.  So first those weeks have to be released by the owners, then 8 months out I have to call to see if these weeks are available by other owners, if they are not then not only have I lost the places i wanted to visit but also lost the reservation at my home resort...correct?


This is true...mostly. There is often confusion over where the resorts "get their weeks", as some can be found for rent via other sources yet not available for owners, etc. Many of the resorts have units still owned by Starwood which are typically available for others to use. But in essence, yes owners need to release their use of their week at a resort in exchange for another - which creates the mini-market of SVN owners exchanging for other units. The nice part of this is that it's all hidden from us...so we can trust SVN to do the right thing and not mess with the system. _Nodge, where are you?_

HTH!


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> Actually, you don't have to do anything to get your StarOptions available for use elsewhere (btw, it's "SO's", not "points", as that is commonly used to refer to StarPoints for the hotel point plan). If you own a unit valued at 148,100 SO's, then each year you have that many Options available to use. If you book at your home resort, then that may use the value of your SO's and you won't have any left to use elsewhere.
> 
> Exactly correct. The only concern is if there will be availability at the resort when you want to visit. I can say now you won't have any problem getting Kierland between 28-35 (it's HOT in the summer there).
> 
> ...



Thanks!  What's HTH?   What you did with your 2008 "options" is exactly what what we would be looking at doing with ours.  Trying out the various resorts.  The only thing is that we would be looking to be book at March Break and Summer. (maybe sometimes during the christmas break).  If you haven't read this entire post, I foolishly bought a timeshare from Westin in Maui at the new resorts.  I'm cancelling but now I'm on a mission to figure out this whole time share world.

Caroline


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 15, 2008)

You probably have the impression by now that there are lots of rules at SVN (as at any t/s system). One of the goals of this board is to find the best way to maximize your use of your ownership. So... learn the rules! 

One of the SVN reservation rules is that you cannot book at a SVN resort other than your home resort until eight months from the date of arrival, as you know. BUT... that's just for the arrival date itself. If you want to stay longer than a week you may make just one reservation for the entire stay ahead of time. So, my Cancun reservation for later this year was made just after the week opened up...but the second week was not. In other words, if there's a particular week you must be somewhere and your schedule is flexible enough to handle it, you could arrive early and get easy confirmation for a busy week, etc.

You'll find lots of ways to use the system to your advantage, if you work at it. 

That said, I suggest you also look into the other t/s systems before deciding on Starwood. I stayed at a Marriott and visited several before choosing Starwood. Each system has its benefits, and there are owners that believe their own is the best. Then, there are many who own at multiple systems rather than buying more at the same. Marriott, for instance, has considerably more locations than Starwood. Check them all out.


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 15, 2008)

123traveller said:


> Thanks!  What's HTH?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hth



> What you did with your 2008 "options" is exactly what what we would be looking at doing with ours.  Trying out the various resorts.  The only thing is that we would be looking to be book at March Break and Summer. (maybe sometimes during the christmas break).


Yeah...good luck with that plan. The only good news is that March break occurs at different times for different parts of North America (see, I'm inclusive! ). Depending on which week you have available will determine if you have a good chance or almost no chance at getting a reservation at one of the popular resorts. Summer is difficult everywhere (except Mission Hills and Kierland). Christmas is most likely hard everywhere. So, to me this means you should own at one of your preferred holiday destinations so you can make that reservation 12 months out in the years you want to use it there. The rest of the time you'll be taking your chances with everyone else...



> If you haven't read this entire post, I foolishly bought a timeshare from Westin in Maui at the new resorts.  I'm cancelling but now I'm on a mission to figure out this whole time share world.


Yes, excellent! It's not foolish, though. You recognized that a t/s may fit nicely with your vacation plans, yet didn't know you could save $$$ by buying resale. You would have been foolish had you not rescinded!


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

Ken555 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hth
> 
> It does help.  Thank You.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ken555 (Jul 15, 2008)

> March Break is usually the 2nd or 3rd week of March..not sure how that fits in with everyone else.  We have breifly reviewed the Marriott product-  they really do have many more carribean and warm weather destinations but the Westin is so much nicer, IMO.


You've just stated the reason I bought Starwood. However, I will gladly stay at a Marriott. I've been and exchanged to their resort in Lake Tahoe and it's fantastic, and I really want to return to Custom House in Boston. 



> Now we are going to look at buying Harborside re-sale (it's a mandatory resort which means that we can use it on the SVN network-  see I have been listening).  Not sure if its right yet but we will do all our homework.


Harborside is great (I was there in 2007) but they have high maintenance fees. And, as they are going to start building another phase I suspect availability will get easier over time. If you plan on going there often (I know, easier flight for you, etc) then it's worth buying there.



> I'm also going to explore the whole re-valuing options to get the most bang fro my buck.  Any advice/information on re-valuing?


I haven't requal'd any of mine...yet. I suggest you try to figure out how many weeks you need before even thinking of it. Once you have that number, you'll be able to better create a purchase plan. Everyone has different goals with their ownership and that will impact how and where you purchase. 

For example, I bought simply to force myself to get out of LA (as I often tell friends, I try to leave LA at the slightest excuse...and a prepaid trip is a great excuse!). However, I often work while away so my needs will probably be different than yours. And now that Starwood reduced the value of the Elite program considerably, I have absolutely no desire to pay for it. So, there's little reason for me to acquire more Starwood weeks. But if I did, I would purchase the least expensive mandatory resort with the least expensive maintenance fees...as my schedule is very flexible, I've only reserved at the eight month mark (I've never reserved at my home resort at 12 months).


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

Thanks again.  

It's time for bed now.  I'm sure I will be back with more questions.   

Enjoy the rest of your evening.


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 15, 2008)

Good Morning! 

I think that if you want Starpoints and have ownership that will allow you to get the most bang for the buck, talk to SDKath. She was able to get to 5 star elite (which gets you Platinum For Life in the Starwood system), she has the ability to convert to around 330,000 starpoints, and she did it all for a little over $50,000 in 3-4 months. 

Tom


----------



## esk444 (Jul 15, 2008)

FYI, March and X-Mas is the absolute peak season for the Carribean.  Exchange opportunities into these locations are rare.  People who own these weeks rarely exchange them and if they can't go they usually rent them.  
If you want to go there in peak season, you really need to buy a resort located in the Carribean.  In fact, the only decent resorts that I can regularly find exchanges, except in last minute situations, in the Carribean for March are the Marriott Aruba resorts (not my favorite island) and the Morritts resorts in Grand Cayman (RCI).

The Catch-22 is that the nicer properties in the Carribean have very high Maintenance Fees, so it makes it makes it painful to trade.  Plus it will be difficult to trade one Carribean resort for another (i.e. Marriott St. Kitts for Marriott Frenchman's Cove) during peak season.

You should also read the reviews in TUG for Harborside.  I was surprised that they many were very critical of the resort.  It's not for everyone.  I personally love it, but I could see how it could disappoint others.


----------



## capjak (Jul 15, 2008)

*Just to make things more complicated?*

Flexibility is a desire of many that want to travel to various destinations that a timeshare is not available.  Many people believe use of a timeshare to convert to hotel stays is not financially prudent, others believe that there is value in flexibility and use in high rate hotels (mostly in Europe).

This creates an issue when buying resale and not getting hotel conversion flexibility.

Some, to overcome this Resale purchase "shortcoming", have:

1. Bought timesahare and use cash for hotel
2. Bought timeshare and rent it for cash when wanting to go to a hotel destination
3.  Bought timeshare that allows conversion (Hilton Grand Vacation Club)
4.  Don't buy anything and rent Timeshares and pay cash for hotel

and others go the Destination Club route (belief easier to go to various destinations without exchanging) and pay cash for hotel stays

If you are sure you want Starwood for their timeshare, you may consider a combination purchase.  Purchase starwood resale for the timeshare stays and Hilton Grand vacation club for both timeshare and hotel conversion.  

This could be done with two EOY purchases or any combo for likely less than you original Westin purchase.

HGVC 7000 TS points for every year can be purchased resale for $12,500 (EOY for 60-70% of EY) including costs and can be converted to 175,000 hilton honor points.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 15, 2008)

*Rescinding*

Good Morning and thank you everyone for the additional information.   

First order of business this morning-sending in my recession.

Do we sign the cancellation notice and copy it then send it by fedex or do we copy the cancellation notice and then sign it so we send it with original signatures? or does it not matter?

The wording is mail a signed copy to SVO in Florida or send a telegraph.

There is no telehone number or fax and I can't find anything online.  Should I make a follow up phone with anyone at Starwood after I have mailed it?

My apologies if this should have posted on the newbie board.

Thanks,

Caroline


----------



## clsmit (Jul 15, 2008)

Send Starwood the original signatures and keep a copy of everything you send for yourself. Fedex that packet (with the rescision letter and other required documetation), and use the tracking number to know when it gets there. You can also fax it to 407-903-4641 (the general Starwood Vacation Ownership fax number), but the Fedex ensures you can track receipt.

I believe you would get a confirmation that your contract is terminated. Depending on how you paid, you should also check those sources to make sure you get your money back.

Then the real fun can begin!


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 17, 2008)

*Thanks!*

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to say thank you for all the information you have provided me with.  We sent the letter fedex, called SVO today and spoke with Xavier who confirmed that they received it and it already showed cancelled on thier systems.  We should expect our refund in 3 weeks.  No call from our salesperson as of yet.     It won't seem finalized though until we actually get our deposit back.

Now off to all the research I must do!

Caroline


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 17, 2008)

And your refund will take the whole 3 weeks to get back to you.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 17, 2008)

Does anyone know if the RIU Hotels are part of any timeshare program?

Thanks!


----------



## DavidnRobin (Jul 17, 2008)

We paid the deposit by credit card - and it was returned almost immediately.  I only sent a fax and made a single phone call for our rescinding without issue.

This happened after I found TUG by using the following Google search term "Timeshare Nightmares" as recommended by a friend when he found out we bought OF WKORVN during our presentation at the Sheraton Poipu (for ~$74K!!!).  His friend was one of the SVO Sales people at Poipu - so he didn't want to say directly "Don't do this!".  It was DeniseM and Denise L who first responded to my very first TUG post [I was DeniseM 1000th post - Aww - the good old days... ]  Saved us $10,000s and yet cost us $10,000s...


----------



## clsmit (Jul 17, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> Saved us $10,000s and yet cost us $10,000s...



But the "cost" $$$  are SOOO much better than the "saved" $$$$!!!!


----------



## SDKath (Jul 17, 2008)

DavidnRobin said:


> We paid the deposit by credit card - and it was returned almost immediately.  I only sent a fax and made a single phone call for our rescinding without issue.
> 
> This happened after I found TUG by using the following Google search term "Timeshare Nightmares" as recommended by a friend when he found out we bought OF WKORVN during our presentation at the Sheraton Poipu (for ~$74K!!!).  His friend was one of the SVO Sales people at Poipu - so he didn't want to say directly "Don't do this!".  It was DeniseM and Denise L who first responded to my very first TUG post [I was DeniseM 1000th post - Aww - the good old days... ]  Saved us $10,000s and yet cost us $10,000s...



That's a good story!


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 17, 2008)

I hope ours is returned as quickly as yours.


----------



## tomandrobin (Jul 17, 2008)

123traveller said:


> Does anyone know if the RIU Hotels are part of any timeshare program?
> 
> Thanks!



I did a search and came up empty. I don't think they sell timeshares or are linked to a timeshare program.


----------



## 123traveller (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks for checking the Riu.  Is there any information available that easily outlines the benefits of the different time shares?  Ex. comparing starwood to hilton to marriott.


----------

