# May have made a mistake...help...



## itap39 (Jun 14, 2019)

So we have two contracts with Hyatt, 2200 (purchased direct with Hyatt) and 1300 (purchased secondary mkt), both at the Wild Oak Ranch.  We’re in the legacy program, so prior to the Portfolio Program.  

Last year we were in the owner update they offered us to move our 2200 pts into the new portfolio program for $23,000.  We passed.  I didn’t see the advantage. 

But this time, we passed again on the same offer, and they offered us to buy 660pts for $13900.  Doing this would allow us to move not only the 2200 but also my secondary mkt points to the Portfolio program every year.  So 2200+1300+660 now in the Portfolio Program.  That seemed desperate of the WOR.  We took the offer.  

We’re still in the 10day cancellation period, and wondering the following:
1. Seemed like a good deal to “make whole” the secondary mkt purchase?
2. In the new portfolio program we can move Hyatt points to the World Of Hyatt point program anytime!  And I don’t have to be online at midnight to get this feature. Seemed like a solid benefit.
3. We should have earlier access to inventory?
4. We forgot to ask for incentive points...then went back after signing and got some.  How much should we get for this deal...we only got 10,000 World Of Hyatt points, should we push for more?

My gut was telling me to hold out...but having that secondary market made “whole” seemed like a deal I couldn’t pass.  

Please let me know your thoughts.  Open to suggestions

Many thanks!


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## Karen G (Jun 14, 2019)

If you have any questions whatsoever as to whether or not you made a good deal, rescind now while you still can. Once the 10-day rescission period passes you'll own it, whether it's the best you can do or not.  Take some time to thoroughly research exactly what you're buying and what other options might be better.  What other $13,900 purchase would you make solely on the basis of what a salesman is telling you?

Whatever deal they offered you will still be there later. They are in business to sell stuff and they'll happily sell you whatever they can convince you to buy.


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## tj5654 (Jun 14, 2019)

Karen G said:


> If you have any questions whatsoever as to whether or not you made a good deal, rescind now while you still can. Once the 10-day rescission period passes you'll own it, whether it's the best you can do or not.  Take some time to thoroughly research exactly what you're buying and what other options might be better.  What other $13,900 purchase would you make solely on the basis of what a salesman is telling you?
> 
> Whatever deal they offered you will still be there later. They are in business to sell stuff and they'll happily sell you whatever they can convince you to buy.




I agree with Karen...


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## itap39 (Jun 14, 2019)

Thanks for the tip, but really looking for others’ experience with the value and or functionality of the new system


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 14, 2019)

Nothing they have to sell would be worth that much money.  You should rescind and give yourself time to evaluate it better.  Don't make the mistake of waiting for an answer you want to hear.  Believe what you are reading here and rescind before you regret not rescinding.


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## cgeidl (Jun 14, 2019)

Whatever you can get direct from a timeshare company has a lot of profit and overhead built in. RESCIND NOW and get a better deal from an owner.


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## echino (Jun 14, 2019)

I don't see any practical advantage of the new Portfolio program at all. I would not convert even if it was free. What exactly do you gain for $13,900? Also, maintenance fees on the Portfolio points are higher. Rescind. You could buy much more resale for that money.


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 14, 2019)

I'll add my take to your specific questions:

Is it a good deal to "make whole" the secondary market purchase? IMO, no. Why? 1) It's very expensive; 2) as Kal has often pointed out here, converting real, deeded property into points is just a bad idea for a whole host of reasons--especially from the standpoint of resale value...with deeded weeks, you have something of real value to offer to a potential buyer; with points, you have...what?
Remember that converting Hyatt timeshare points to WOH hotel points is simply a terrible value. Yes, it offers more flexibility. But when you actually run the calculations to see what you're paying in maintenance fees compared to what you're getting in WOH nights, those nights in a hotel are incredibly expensive.
The sales weasels tell you that you have a 30-day advantage to look at inventory. That is true, theoretically. But remember this: the large majority of owners do not surrender their deeded week from HRPP to CUP until close to the deadline of within six months of the week in question. That means that when the week actually becomes available, there is no advantage for Points owners over Legacy owners. Sorry, you still need to stay up until midnight.
Incentive points are not "free". You paid through the nose for them when you agreed to fork over nearly $14,000. It reminds me of a Dave Barry quote, from a different context: "If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it's free." 
Others have urged you to rescind. I wholeheartedly agree.


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## tj5654 (Jun 14, 2019)

echino said:


> I don't see any practical advantage of the new Portfolio program at all. I would not convert even if it was free. What exactly do you gain for $13,900? Also, maintenance fees on the Portfolio points are higher. Rescind. You could buy much more resale for that money.



I agree with echino as well as Karen's response. I was in KW a couple years ago for the opening week pitch of the HPP program in their multi million $$ sales center on Front St.  Misrepresentations (or "lies"??) abound and everything sounded too good to be true, so I hesitantly agreed and purchased (I heard what I wanted to hear). Went back to the resort and called member services for the real answers. Took a long time for the member services representative to produce answers. As I said, the first week of the new offering, nobody seemed to actually know the facts up front. But eventually it was determined most of what I was told and thought I heard was false, and I ended with little reason to "upgrade" so I immediately rescinded within hours of the purchase. 

Went to another Owner Update (pitch) a year later and was again told an untruth. I was ready for that from my previous gathering of information and called the presenter on it. But the presenter was so certain she actually called member services and found I was correct in my understanding once again. They are up-selling you benefits that do not exist and you are already on a better deal with HRC so its pointless to move, not to mention expensive. There may be a 5% chance of getting a reservation benefit out of HPP, but never a guarantee as is insinuated at the pitch. Save your money and better use your existing benefits without incurring additional MFs. 

By buying resale the only thing I've ever seen sacrificed is converting to Hyatt Hotel points which is an expensive trade off in itself.


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## dahntahn (Jun 15, 2019)

My wife and own 4 deeded Hyatt weeks, all bought on the secondary market, 3 of them during the 2008 crash when prices plummeted.  Over the years since the HPP program was begun we have attended numerous presentations and always declined.  As time passed, the terms offered went from outrageous [over $100,000 to convert all our 4 weeks] to simply expensive [$ 13,000 to convert 2 weeks].  Finally in January at Coconut we decided to take the latter offer for a number of reasons:
1. You can put in a waitlist request 18 months ahead of the time you want.
2. You can book any number of nights you want, from one night on up, any day of the week.
3. You can bank points into next year and borrow future points as well, similar to our Disney timeshare, a big advantage to us.
4. All your points come available at the same time every year.
5. You can convert any odd points you don't use to hotel points - I agree this is not a good idea if you can use the points, but it means you never have to have points expire for no value at all.
6. You can decide to keep the deeded week any year you wish or convert to points, on a yearly basis.  We will convert some and keep some every year which will allow us to make waitlist requests in both systems.
7. For an extra 100 points on any given reservation you can get the view or unit you want if it is available.

What really decided us to go ahead is that we are in our 70s and have involved our kids in using our timeshares.  They are totally intimidated by the legacy points system, which is complex and takes time and experience to master.  When they inherit our deeds they will keep them and will use them with a system more user friendly.

Being a longtime tugger, I was still uneasy about the decision and after sleeping on it, we rescinded two days later, because we were in the process of relocating and were carrying two mortgages, with the sale of our old house uncertain.  But we were convinced of the many advantages of the HPP.

Then we went to WOR in May and went to another presentation [we always go for the $100 credit].  They gave the same offer as before.  By this time our house had sold and closed. After hearing the pitch I said we would be willing to buy 660 points if they would allow conversion of all 4 of our weeks [which puts us in the highest tier of HPPers, giving an edge in several areas] .  They agreed quickly, which means I should have bargained further but didn't.  We are content with the decision, and are fortunate enough to have the means to do it without any financing [which they offer at 16 % !!!!].

It seems that they have reduced the cost since having such resistance to sales over time has meant poor sales.  It may well come down further, and it is definitely worth trying to negotiate with them.

In closing, if we had it to do over again from starting with Hyatt, we would buy fixed weeks at a resort we love going to, and be content with using those weeks every year.  Joining HPP is a trade off but does give more flexibility.


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## OldGuy (Jun 15, 2019)

In other words, whenever someone titles their post _May Have Made a Mistake . . . 

_


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 15, 2019)

dahntahn said:


> My wife and own 4 deeded Hyatt weeks, all bought on the secondary market, 3 of them during the 2008 crash when prices plummeted.  Over the years since the HPP program was begun we have attended numerous presentations and always declined.  As time passed, the terms offered went from outrageous [over $100,000 to convert all our 4 weeks] to simply expensive [$ 13,000 to convert 2 weeks].  Finally in January at Coconut we decided to take the latter offer for a number of reasons:
> 1. You can put in a waitlist request 18 months ahead of the time you want.
> 2. You can book any number of nights you want, from one night on up, any day of the week.
> 3. You can bank points into next year and borrow future points as well, similar to our Disney timeshare, a big advantage to us.
> ...


I will be curious to hear what you think over time. Keep us updated


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## itap39 (Jun 16, 2019)

dahntahn said:


> My wife and own 4 deeded Hyatt weeks, all bought on the secondary market, 3 of them during the 2008 crash when prices plummeted.  Over the years since the HPP program was begun we have attended numerous presentations and always declined.  As time passed, the terms offered went from outrageous [over $100,000 to convert all our 4 weeks] to simply expensive [$ 13,000 to convert 2 weeks].  Finally in January at Coconut we decided to take the latter offer for a number of reasons:
> 1. You can put in a waitlist request 18 months ahead of the time you want.
> 2. You can book any number of nights you want, from one night on up, any day of the week.
> 3. You can bank points into next year and borrow future points as well, similar to our Disney timeshare, a big advantage to us.
> ...



Thanks so much for this response.  Your reasons are my reasons.  I am total alignment.  Since they could make my other week whole, although I don’t have 4 like you, it makes them all easier to pull together for bigger units and planning easier.  While I’m only 42, I’m still managing the contracts and its a bear...even for my analytical mind.  So I guess I was willing to pay for convienience.  

But I appreciated this forums group-think.  It’s always helpful.  

I think now...My biggest concern is the resale value.  I’ll need to read through the fine print and see if the 3rd contract is “tied” to the first two now...and be calling Hyatt legal tomorrow to work through some details.

Glad to also hear others use the 10day unwind option.


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## itap39 (Jun 16, 2019)

dahntahn said:


> My wife and own 4 deeded Hyatt weeks, all bought on the secondary market, 3 of them during the 2008 crash when prices plummeted.  Over the years since the HPP program was begun we have attended numerous presentations and always declined.  As time passed, the terms offered went from outrageous [over $100,000 to convert all our 4 weeks] to simply expensive [$ 13,000 to convert 2 weeks].  Finally in January at Coconut we decided to take the latter offer for a number of reasons:
> 1. You can put in a waitlist request 18 months ahead of the time you want.
> 2. You can book any number of nights you want, from one night on up, any day of the week.
> 3. You can bank points into next year and borrow future points as well, similar to our Disney timeshare, a big advantage to us.
> ...



Btw, what was the cost for the 660 points and the ability to convert all 4 weeks.   And did they offer any “incentive points?”


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## itap39 (Jun 16, 2019)

WalnutBaron said:


> I'll add my take to your specific questions:
> 
> Is it a good deal to "make whole" the secondary market purchase? IMO, no. Why? 1) It's very expensive; 2) as Kal has often pointed out here, converting real, deeded property into points is just a bad idea for a whole host of reasons--especially from the standpoint of resale value...with deeded weeks, you have something of real value to offer to a potential buyer; with points, you have...what?
> Remember that converting Hyatt timeshare points to WOH hotel points is simply a terrible value. Yes, it offers more flexibility. But when you actually run the calculations to see what you're paying in maintenance fees compared to what you're getting in WOH nights, those nights in a hotel are incredibly expensive.
> ...


Thanks for this!


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## itap39 (Jun 16, 2019)

echino said:


> I don't see any practical advantage of the new Portfolio program at all. I would not convert even if it was free. What exactly do you gain for $13,900? Also, maintenance fees on the Portfolio points are higher. Rescind. You could buy much more resale for that money.


The only real, obvious reason, is getting the points all at once so you can easily book.  It just makes things easier...but its funny...how they create a complicated system...then “sell” us a solution.  I guess I’ll just keep managing the process...but if i had 3-4 contracts...it would be very tempting to convert for ease.


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## dahntahn (Jun 16, 2019)

itap39 said:


> Btw, what was the cost for the 660 points and the ability to convert all 4 weeks.   And did they offer any “incentive points?”


Cost was $20 per point, and no incentive points were discussed, but I actually dropped the ball on this, as I didn't ask for any because I was so surprised that they agreed that I forgot.  When we signed in January [and then rescinded] they gave us 100,000 World of Hyatt points, so I am certain you can get some amount as an incentive.  I would ask for the 100,000 and see what happens.


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## dahntahn (Jun 16, 2019)

itap39 said:


> Thanks so much for this response.  Your reasons are my reasons.  I am total alignment.  Since they could make my other week whole, although I don’t have 4 like you, it makes them all easier to pull together for bigger units and planning easier.  While I’m only 42, I’m still managing the contracts and its a bear...even for my analytical mind.  So I guess I was willing to pay for convienience.
> 
> But I appreciated this forums group-think.  It’s always helpful.
> 
> ...



You will always have the deed to your weeks, so you can resale any of them at any time.  The pure HPP points you bought to join HPP are likely to have little or no resale value at least for now.


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## Panina (Jun 16, 2019)

itap39 said:


> So we have two contracts with Hyatt, 2200 (purchased direct with Hyatt) and 1300 (purchased secondary mkt), both at the Wild Oak Ranch.  We’re in the legacy program, so prior to the Portfolio Program.
> 
> Last year we were in the owner update they offered us to move our 2200 pts into the new portfolio program for $23,000.  We passed.  I didn’t see the advantage.
> 
> ...


Let me say upfront I do not own Hyatt nor fully understand their system.  This is purely from a $ perspective.

Only you can decide if spending $13,900 to get the additional flexibility is worth it to you.

I can only compare it to my hgvc where  most say the most points for the least mf.  But value can be in buying a low point fixed week that you can use in an area hard to trade into.  Each of us have different criteria to what we are willing to spend for what we want.

To me, it seems you have given great thought to this as @dahntahn did.  If it works for you, you see how it will give you greater value and you can afford it, I would say go for it.  Others may not agree as it has no benefit to them.  

Keep in mind the $13900 you spend will probably be a lost value if you have to sell.  The value is in you using it.  Also do ask for the bonus points, they will not want you to rescind.


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## bdh (Jun 16, 2019)

dahntahn said:


> My wife and own 4 deeded Hyatt weeks, all bought on the secondary market, 3 of them during the 2008 crash when prices plummeted.  Over the years since the HPP program was begun we have attended numerous presentations and always declined.  As time passed, the terms offered went from outrageous [over $100,000 to convert all our 4 weeks] to simply expensive [$ 13,000 to convert 2 weeks].  Finally in January at Coconut we decided to take the latter offer for a number of reasons:
> 1. You can put in a waitlist request 18 months ahead of the time you want.
> 2. You can book any number of nights you want, from one night on up, any day of the week.
> 3. You can bank points into next year and borrow future points as well, similar to our Disney timeshare, a big advantage to us.
> ...



Based on how DT uses their Hyatt ownership, sounds like HPP will work for them.  My comments are:

DT is a seasoned Hyatt owner and that gives them a knowledge base on how to use/navigate the system.  Unfortunately there are a LOT of Hyatt owners that don't know how to use what they own - and the sales pitch makes HPP sound easy and enticing.  There's been one round/year of HRC owners that bought into HPP and some reservation disappointment with HPP has set in as the program didn't provide the reservation advantage that the sales staff had been promoting  - will be interesting to hear/see what happens with reservation disappointment in year two.
The wait list request time frames: HPP has different tiers and how soon you can get on the wait list varies based on how many points a person has.

Classic Tier (up to 2,200 Portfolio Points) is 14 months
Executive Tier (2,201 to 4,399 Portfolio Points) is 15 months
Premier Tier (up to 4,400 - 6,599 Portfolio Points) is 16 months
Elite Tier (6,600+ Portfolio Points) is 18 months
Expect the caveat with the tiers is that if an owner elects not to convert their HRC deeded week/s into HPP in a particular year, their tier that year would drop down to their owned HPP points (typically 660 pts).


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 16, 2019)

dahntahn said:


> Cost was $20 per point, and no incentive points were discussed, but I actually dropped the ball on this, as I didn't ask for any because I was so surprised that they agreed that I forgot.  When we signed in January [and then rescinded] they gave us 100,000 World of Hyatt points, so I am certain you can get some amount as an incentive.  I would ask for the 100,000 and see what happens.


Because they are now under Marriott they are willing to bring all your weeks in . They will also negotiate. We also considered it as we own 3 Hyatt weeks and they have various start dated June, Oct and Jan all spread out but we are assuming we will need to do something with Marriott also so dont want to do both


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## Kal (Jun 16, 2019)

After reviewing this conversation, I see absolutely no value in throwing that much money at Hyatt just to manage points.  I would rescind in a heartbeat.


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## itap39 (Jun 17, 2019)

Kal said:


> After reviewing this conversation, I see absolutely no value in throwing that much money at Hyatt just to manage points.  I would rescind in a heartbeat.



Agree.  After the drive home, and letting everything soak...I think its too early...it is interesting how Hyatt jumped straight to requiring $13k  for 660pts, rather than Marriott's initial approach to offfering $2k to get your legacy points into their portfolio program, when they first rolled it out as someone has suggested in another forum.

The other thing I forgot to share to the group...is the sales guy mentioned they would have some "big" announcements coming in the next few months.  He wouldn't elaborate but said as an owner himself, he was excited.  For whatever any of that is worth.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and contributions to the thread...I am rescinding.


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## WalnutBaron (Jun 17, 2019)

itap39 said:


> Agree.  After the drive home, and letting everything soak...I think its too early...it is interesting how Hyatt jumped straight to requiring $13k  for 660pts, rather than Marriott's initial approach to offfering $2k to get your legacy points into their portfolio program, when they first rolled it out as someone has suggested in another forum.
> 
> The other thing I forgot to share to the group...is the sales guy mentioned they would have some "big" announcements coming in the next few months.  He wouldn't elaborate but said as an owner himself, he was excited.  For whatever any of that is worth.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's thoughts and contributions to the thread...I am rescinding.


As a new member of TUG, you may not be aware of one of the hallmarks of the TUG approach to timesharing: "How can you tell if the salesman is lying? His lips are moving." The "big" announcement in the next few months is yet another ploy to lure you into another sales presentation. In almost all cases, it's just best to stay away. These guys make a living of figuring out how to separate you from your hard-earned dollars. By the way, I appreciate the way you've approached this: you asked for people's advice, took it all in, and made a reasoned decision. Good going! And welcome to TUG.


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## Kal (Jun 17, 2019)

itap39 said:


> ….The other thing I forgot to share to the group...is the sales guy mentioned they would have some "big" announcements coming in the next few months.  He wouldn't elaborate but said as an owner himself, he was excited.  For whatever any of that is worth...


It seems to me we heard that same statement maybe a year ago and nothing was ever announced.  My guess would be something along these lines:

_"...Hyatt will double the price to buy into the HPP.  But today we will give HRC owners a special last chance to buy in at the current rip-off price.   HURRAY, step right up before you will get had for twice the price"_


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 17, 2019)

Kal said:


> It seems to me we heard that same statement maybe a year ago and nothing was ever announced.  My guess would be something along these lines:
> 
> _"...Hyatt will double the price to buy into the HPP.  But today we will give HRC owners a special last chance to buy in at the current rip-off price.   HURRAY, step right up before you will get had for twice the price"_


I suspect it is related to Marriott and a merged program which is supposed to be announced by years end or early next year depending who you talk to


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## SteelerGal (Jun 17, 2019)

According to the last earnings call, Vistana is the focus.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jun 17, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> According to the last earnings call, Vistana is the focus.[/QUOTI I hope you are correct!


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## Kal (Jun 18, 2019)

Or maybe it's just more huckster speak.


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