# Want to buy HGVC - afraid of lifetime of rising maintenance fees for my heirs



## quietside (Feb 1, 2011)

Hi there,

I SO appreciate this online forum. I went to a timeshare presentation last Friday, almost signed on the line, went home and discovered TUGGERS.  So many of you seem to be very happy HGVC owners and after having read a lot about the pluses and flexibility of the program, want to jump in too. I am considering a resale bienniel 1 BR with low maintenance fees in Las Vegas for between $4-$5K or one in Orlando with slightly higher annual fees. I want to generate some points but not be overloaded by annual fees or feel that we HAVE to travel in a particular way every year. We also live in Hawaii, so we can take advantage of the Open Season option very easily all the time.  But... 

... what if there comes a time when either my husband and I pass and/or Hilton's maintenance fees skyrocket and our kids are legally obligated to keep paying the bienniel fees? They are small now ($600 every other year) but it sounds like those can easily rise 5% yearly, right? I read the horror stories of other timeshare owners of other brands of properties who are in this situation, and it freaked me out.

I can HOPE that since Hilton is a very good company and their system is so desirable right now, that there will always be a market for Hilton timeshares. But, is there a concrete way to ensure that buying a HGVC timeshare won't be a noose around my or my kids' necks later? What happens if something terrible goes wrong with our particular property (earthquake) or with the Hilton management (fraud or mismanagement) that suddenly makes a HGVC timeshare a liability?

I figure that it's not like buying a house because a house can always be at least given away, because SOMEONE will want it. But it sounds like someone will not always want even a free timeshare. Is it a real concern to anyone that you might one day try to sell a timeshare on eBay for a penny and not have a taker? I assume this happens with non-Hilton timeshares now, but what's to say it wouldn't happen in 30 years when my kids are legally responsible for the deed?

I'm sorry to sound so dramatic or pessimistic, but after reading many awful stories by timeshare owners who are stuck, I feel I need to think thrice before signing on the dotted line... at least for my kids' sake. Please, anyone have some concrete input? I really love what seem to be fantastic HGVC benefits, but this other sad scenario is real for other timeshare owners right now. Thoughts?

And please, a couple other questions related to EOY/bienniel, steady maintenance fees and names on the deed: 

1. Since I want to buy a bienniel, would that type be harder to sell if needed in the future (compared to an annual contract)?

2. As I said, I'm looking at Las Vegas for low fees but I have heard that the Las Vegas Hilton is probably going to have an assessment in a few years. Can anyone recommend a property to buy into that is less likely to have jumps in fees? Would it be better to buy in Orlando? Do newer properties have slower rises in annual fees?

3. I have considered asking some close friends if they would like me to add their names to the deed just so they can use the Open Season benefits. I realize now that that makes them legally responsible for fees if something happens to me and my husband. Are there other considerations to doing that?

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your sharing your experience and advice.


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## DeniseM (Feb 1, 2011)

Your kids are not legally obligated to inherit any property.  You can't force an inheritance on someone, so I'd only look at your financial comfort level.

BUY RESALE!


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## Janann (Feb 1, 2011)

*Just my opinion*

I have owned with HGVC for several years, and you have some valid concerns.  But at the same time, the reason I bought into HGVC is to avoid some of the problems you mentioned.  I'll give you my thoughts, and I'm sure other people will have some opinions too.

-- No one can be forced to inherit your property, but I believe it is legally possible for your ESTATE to be forced to pay the maintenance fees.  Maybe an attorney could clarify whether this is true.  Even if the estate manages to skip the fees, the fees would eventually have to be paid when the timeshare changes ownership.  Somebody would have to pay up eventually.

-- Its true that timeshares sit out on Ebay all the time, but rarely with HGVC.  They always get sold for some dollar amount.  I've seen a friend and my parents struggle to sell their old-style one week block timeshares.  With these types of timeshares, they sometimes they sell for "less than zero," meaning that you have to sweeten this deal with $1,000, a big chunk of frequent flier points, or something else to make the deal attractive.  You can always get rid of a timeshare, but it might cost the seller rather than the buyer.

-- I own an every-year unit at HGVC Las Vegas Strip, and an every-other-year unit.  I haven't tried to sell either one, but I would guess each one has its own merits.  Of course the every-other-year would have a lower price, so it opens up a different sales market.  Its also good for people who aren't convinced they want to do a timeshare vacation every year, but they are willing to commit to every other year.  My two units combined give me about two weeks with RCI every year, which is perfect for my family.

-- Fees can go up every year, but so will the cost of ordinary vacation travel.  You just have to decide if you are willing to take a chance on the maintenance fees.

-- Your thoughts are similar to mine on concerns about special assessments due to a natural disaster.  This is part of the reason I bought in Las Vegas, which so far is subject to declines in real estate value but not any natural disasters.  Someone at Hilton told me that Hilton is extremely well-insured and would never have a special assessment because of a hurricane or other disaster.  Not sure if thats true.

-- I wouldn't put a friend's name on the deed.  Its a legal contract that can become an ordeal.  What if the friend passed and 20% of your timeshare was put into probate?  Once again, an attorney might be able to explain this scenario.  I have no idea how something like this would turn out.

Overall, HGVC has been great for me.  We've had great trades with RCI, and have gone places we never would have visited without the timeshare.:whoopie: 

OK everyone...other opinions?


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## RichardL (Feb 1, 2011)

*1st time rent, 2nd time rent, 3rd time ??*

Please look at the Tug rental ad for HGVC and since it is point based if you want to visit Las Vegas, and you don't see the week you want, try looking at Hawaii and the owner can simply make a phone call within 9 months of your desired trip and a reservation is made in Las Vegas in your name.

How much does it cost to rent in Tug?  A lot cheaper than buying even through EBAY.  I have seen a lot of rentals on Tug that are less than the maintenance fee or within a few hundred dollars.   Best part is try it not only a few times, but try different name brands for example Hilton Las Vegas, then try one of the several Marriotts, and just to be wild try even a different destination.  In this way you can really comparison shop and know exactly what you are buying should you buy.  I basically don't think that TS prices are appreciating any time for the next few years, so why buy if you can rent cheaper.  The answer to often is simply we are all consumers and it feels good to buy real estate.  WRONG, that may be the reason, but it is a poor one and it makes us all poorer.

Just my opinion.


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## chriskre (Feb 1, 2011)

I think you're worrying about when you pass is a non issue with the small package that you are purchasing from HGVC.  Your family will probably be happy to inherit this when you pass.  I wouldn't put anyone else on the deed though.  I'd let them buy their own small biennial package if they only want to do Open Season.  Owning with friends can get complicated.

I own a biennial and think that it's a great way to get into HGVC with enough points to do a few trips but really since you live in Hawaii you are going to love the Open Season option.  

I've yet to use my HGVC points but have used Open Season 3 times already in the last year.  I find that it has good availability to go to the places I want to go mainly in Florida but I'm sure things probably open up in Hawaii too.

I'm actually getting rid of some of my other yearly MF TS's and plan on taking advantage of just renting from the Club.

Good luck in buying in.  You'll probably have an easier time passing ROFR with a biennial than an annual at this time since it seems Hilton is actively ROFR'ing right now.


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## quietside (Feb 16, 2011)

*thank you, am on my way*

Thank you, everyone, for the very thoughtful responses! 

1. I decided to go for the tiny bienniel package and am waiting for the sale to close. I hadn't even thought about renting points.  Since I'm only going to get a 3400 point, get-my-foot-in-the-door package, do you think I could "rent" timeshare points to tack on to my own if I don't have enough for a particular vacation plan?

2. I appreciate that, yeah, my kids don't HAVE to be on the deed anyway, so no burden for them. 

3. I'm curious about the idea that everyone on the deed would have a percentage that could be affected by one party dying. A couple friends are interested in being on the deed just for access to Open Seasons. Since it doesn't cost me any more to put them on and they're aware of the liability if we die, I figured might as well. Plus, as was said HGVC timeshares are apparently not in the same category of other TSs when someone needs to unload one. 

4. With 3400 points every other year I'm hoping to have enough for a decent RCI trade on trips since their point scale is more economical than Hilton resorts. I thought 2400 points can buy us a week on RCI. Is that right?

5. Also, anyone have experience with banking and borrowing on a bienniel so that you can use 2 years of points on the in-between year? (So, I might bank 3400 2011 points and borrow 3400 2013 points, and in 2012 be able to use 6800 points for the grand European tour?) Am I deluded?

It's so great to have this place where people can share experience/info about this rather esoteric timeshare lifestyle! Thanks again, all.:whoopie:


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## tombo (Feb 16, 2011)

Please don't purchase until you research some more. Rent first to see how you like it and if you like it BUY RESALE!!!!!!You can buy RESALE if you decide you want to own and save $1000's. You will own the exact same thing either way.

 There is a glut of timeshares in most places, but especially in Orlando, Branson, and Vegas. Combine the oversupply with Casinos cheap offers on lodging and you can RENT CHEAPER than you can vacation as an owner when you count annual ever rising MF's and assessments which will inevitably come. 

Rent from owners on TUG, Redweek.com, myresortnetwork, craig's list etc.Save 10's of 1000's in purchase outlay.  Often it is cheaper to rent than own and you are not locked into any group (HGVC) or location (Vegas), you are never obligated to pay assessments, and you are not captive to MF's that are increasing much faster than the cost to rent. There are currently HUNDREDS of last minute rentals on TUG for $700 or less for a week. Redweek has 100,000 cheap rentals at over 5000 resorts offered by timeshare owners for rent for close to what you would pay to be an owner there.These ads are placed by owners like myself who have a week they paid for that they can't use personally and so the weeks are offered to others to rent, and often the rental price is less than MF's. 

It is not a deal to pay 1000's to purchase when you then have to pay almost as much (if not more) to vacation there as renters who have zero investment and zero obligation are paying. Owning a timeshare resale used to be a great deal as the MF's were much lower than you could rent a week. Over the last several years double digit MF increases have made it to where owning is not a big savings on vacations, it is an ever escalating obligation. I own MANY weeks, and unlike when I purchased them  (ALL RESALE), the saving of being an owner in most cases is not worth the obligation.

 Right now timeshares are selling RESALE for the cheapest prices ever and yet i am not considering buying any resort anywhere. I look at resorts i would have paid $5000 resale for a few years ago and refuse to buy the same resort for $1000 or lessl. In the past the weeks rented for $1200 to $1500 with MF's of $800. Now they are renting for $1000 to $1500 with MF's of $1200 to $1500. Why own when you can rent for the same price?


If you haven't purchased yet, do not. If you have purchased, rescind before it is too late. you can always buy later if you want to. Research some more before deciding, and if you decide to buy for goodness sakes DO NOT BUY RETAIL FROM THE DEVELOPER< BUY RESALE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sjuhawk_jd (Feb 16, 2011)

quietside said:


> Thank you, everyone, for the very thoughtful responses!
> 
> 1. I decided to go for the tiny bienniel package and am waiting for the sale to close. I hadn't even thought about renting points.  Since I'm only going to get a 3400 point, get-my-foot-in-the-door package, do you think I could "rent" timeshare points to tack on to my own if I don't have enough for a particular vacation plan?
> 
> ...



This package is a waste of money, even in resale. The closing/transfer fees are same regardless of the point value.


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## yumdrey (Feb 16, 2011)

I am sorry, but biennial 3400 package does not have much use.
If you are plan to use RCI, you need 4800 points for 2BR, 3600 points for 1BR. You can get only studio unit with 2400 points. Often, studio unit isn't better than hotel room.
Also, there's no way you can rent HGVC points like WorldMark. HGVC doesn't allow points to rent.
Maybe you can buy someone else's HGVC points, but to do that, you have to make a reservation first by paying booking fee and cancel later to get (transfer) it as point. It is a waste of time.
If your use year is even years, you can deposit/bank your even year points to odd year and borrow next even year's points, so you can have 6800 points in one year. However, that 6800 points cannot give you grand Europian trip.

AND... if you purchased your biennial 3400 points from Hilton (developer), rescind now while you can.


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## rgong (Feb 16, 2011)

quietside said:


> I am considering a resale bienniel 1 BR with low maintenance fees in Las Vegas for between $4-$5K or one in Orlando with slightly higher annual fees.



She is buying resale. And I believe she also stated she's not planning to travel every year but have the option to use open season in Hawaii since that's where she lives (lucky  ).  I almost bought a biennial package retail from HGVC with the same thought in mind, visiting a nice resort every other year and having the option to use open season. In this scenario I was told that maint. fees are collected only during the years you are awarded the points.


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## SmithOp (Feb 17, 2011)

If she lives in Hawaii, pick up a Bay Club 4800pt 1br EOY and pay the fee to get in HGVC, I picked one up for $299 resale, it cost more to close. 

Don't be put off by rising mf for heirs, if you gave them a house they would have to pay rising property taxes. TANFL.


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## chriskre (Feb 17, 2011)

yumdrey said:


> I am sorry, but biennial 3400 package does not have much use.
> If you are plan to use RCI, you need 4800 points for 2BR, 3600 points for 1BR. You can get only studio unit with 2400 points. Often, studio unit isn't better than hotel room.
> Also, there's no way you can rent HGVC points like WorldMark. HGVC doesn't allow points to rent.



3400 points might be more than enough for the OP if they are anything like me.  I own several TS systems so I just wanted a toe hold in the club to use open season and it's working out great.  I own 5000 biennial and I've only used 2000 points so far and am wondering what to do with the rest of the points since I'm booked up already for the rest of the year.  

It's nice to get away for 2 nights with open season and you have to do 3 nights to use your points with the club so I'm probably gonna just use 2400 to book a nice resort like Manhattan club or similar in RCI with what I've got left.  

I think I bought too many points for my needs and think I would have been fine with 3400 points to bank and borrow for larger vacations.  

I know everybody's needs are different but just trying to give a different perspective.


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## chriskre (Feb 17, 2011)

SmithOp said:


> If she lives in Hawaii, pick up a Bay Club 4800pt 1br EOY and pay the fee to get in HGVC, I picked one up for $299 resale, it cost more to close.
> 
> Don't be put off by rising mf for heirs, if you gave them a house they would have to pay rising property taxes. TANFL.



After studying the SW Florida resorts this is probably the way I should have gone but everyone kept telling me not to buy an affiliate resort as HGVC could go away and you'd be stuck but it doesn't seem too likely to happen although everything is always subject to change at any time.  :annoyed:


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