# New DVC Resales Restrictions



## DVC Mike

In an announcement today, Ken Potrock (DVC SVP) announced new restrictions to benefits available to resale purchasers after today – including discounts on dining, shopping, and access to member-exclusive events.

*DVC announces new benefit restrictions to resales buyers*


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## Southerngirl528

I had heard about this from an insider last week. The response will be interesting. It doesn't really impact usage of DVC at all. Just the perks/benefits from what I understand.


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## capjak

Would it impact the purchase of annual passes? Would that discount be eliminated for new resale buyers, because that is the only benefit I believe is useful?


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## presley

They are grandfathering in again.
"Now, effective April 4, 2016, Members who do not purchase their ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Club will not have access to other Membership Extras, such as exclusive Member experiences and discounts. Please know that as a current Disney Vacation Club Member (regardless of when or where you bought your membership), your access to Disney Differences and these additional Membership Extras will not be affected by this policy change."

I wouldn't base spending thousands of dollars to get a small discount on food, tickets, etc. I'm sure some will be willing to pay more for that stuff, though.


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## DVC Mike

capjak said:


> Would it impact the purchase of annual passes? Would that discount be eliminated for new resale buyers, because that is the only benefit I believe is useful?



Yes, the AP discount is included.


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## capjak

Certainly this is a new approach by DVC as the last time they gave ample warning to resale buyers prior to making the change.  I guess they feel it is such a small change that it did not warrant a "heads Up" like when they added resale restrictions last time or they just don't care about current/potential new resale customers.

Not feelin the pixie dust on this type of communication from DVC but I already have 300 points prior to restrictions but was thinking of scaling down and purchasing 25 points for the discounts over the next 10-20 years and than sell out of DVC.

These prices may be slightly off but you get the point:
with an approximately $50 per point difference resale ($120 Bay lake) vs DVC purchase ($170 Bay Lake) and a  $125 discount per year it could work (less than 10 year break even and if you rent the points may even be a profit assuming you sale at year 10 for your original purchase + inflation)


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## rhonda

Mr. Potrock:  Thanks for further devaluing the membership I already have and, might someday, need to sell.


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## blondietink

Interesting that I, as a DVC member who purchased directly over 10 years ago, did not receive this communication directly from DVC via email, but had to find out about this here.  Personally this will not affect our family.

I see them heading towards one day restricting resale pruchases even further to being only able to use resale at the resort purchased at.  Too many people, in my opinion, are purchasing a cheap resale at Vero Beach for half the price as an example and trading in to a very expensive resort like Grand Floridian.  

Just my 2 cents.


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## SueDonJ

blondietink said:


> Interesting that I, as a DVC member who purchased directly over 10 years ago, did not receive this communication directly from DVC via email, but had to find out about this here.  Personally this will not affect our family.
> 
> I see them heading towards one day restricting resale pruchases even further to being only able to use resale at the resort purchased at.  Too many people, in my opinion, are purchasing a cheap resale at Vero Beach for half the price as an example and trading in to a very expensive resort like Grand Floridian.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.



DVC and all the other timeshare systems walk a fine line when devaluing external resales to the extent that their direct sales don't suffer for it.  IMO their direct sales are helped by restricting ancillary discounts, but they'd be just as hurt as you if they severely restrict external resales.

Taking AP and other discounts away from resale purchasers, that's a carrot dangling in front of a could-be direct purchaser that impacts existing owners only slightly.  Restricting external resales to home resort usage only, that's a punishment that depresses any and all external market activity to the severe detriment of DVC as well as every owner.  It would leave DVC in the position that they'd have to take back every non-performing contract or risk the resorts falling into disrepair and arrears, because owners who won't want them anymore - or won't be able to afford them anymore - will have no way to unload them.  Eventually that would lead to more and more owners wanting to get out because the added costs of the non-performers will be on their shoulders, at which time DVC will have no choice but to supplement the non-performers or disconnect from the resort.  They don't want either scenario to happen.

Buying Vero as an exchanger in order to save money is rather short-sighted, isn't it, considering the annual MF cost for Vero is so much more than the others?  I wouldn't think that too many savvy purchasers, which external resale purchasers usually are, would be doing that.


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## disneymom1

I do not own DVC, but heard about this on the DIS boards.   I would not be happy learning that purchasing resale would make me a "lesser" DVC owner.  DVC owners get a substantial annual pass discount and I would not be happy knowing that I would not get that benefit as a resale owner.  Furthermore, I would seriously think very hard about buying DVC directly from Disney, as if I needed to resell, I would have to face this issue as a seller.  Resale prices may decrease as a result and either DVC will have to ROFR more units or let the prices fall.  Not a good situation for current or prospective DVC owners.
DVC is building more and more timeshares at record speed.  Too bad they can't get the parks updated as quickly!  I get that Disney is a for-profit company, but lately they have been getting an excessive amount of corporate greed.


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## littlestar

Thanks for the info! Interesting.


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## littlestar

Mike,

Any word if adding on a small 25 point direct purchase will give resale buyers the member perks? Or will there be a minimum direct purchase requirement higher than 25 points?


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## alwysonvac

Thanks for the update.


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## DVC Mike

littlestar said:


> Mike,
> 
> Any word if adding on a small 25 point direct purchase will give resale buyers the member perks? Or will there be a minimum direct purchase requirement higher than 25 points?



Buying a 25 point add-on from Disney would get you the perks.

I haven't heard of any changes to the minimum number of points you can add-on.


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## littlestar

DVC Mike said:


> Buying a 25 point add-on from Disney would get you the perks.
> 
> I haven't heard of any changes to the minimum number of points you can add-on.



Thanks, Mike. I own a combination of resale and direct, but was just wondering in case my sister decides to purchase this year.


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## TUGBrian

this is a shame.

just more proof that major developers do not support the resale market at all....truly a shame for owners.


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## blackjack

What is the discount for AP?  Does the discount apply for Disneyland as well as Orlando?  Thanks.


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## rickandcindy23

Well, I was planning to buy two small contracts with either my name or Rick's name along with our sons' names also on the contract.  I guess I will go the resale route and then add the 25 points through Disney later, if that would get me what I need.  I need them to get the perks of discounted AP's.  When the Star Wars area is all done, my second son, huge Star Wars fan, will take his kids often.  

Sad that Disney has gone down the road of other sleazy developers.  Someone paid retail for the points others buy resale.  They still got their profit once!  And their ROFR process means they get to buy the points back even cheaper with this new devaluation.  Why do they have to devalue what we all own and may one day want to sell?  Unbelievable.


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## blondietink

There are no discounts on AP's or any general ticket to Disneyland in California for DVC members.

However, the DVC card gets tons of discounts in Disneyland.  General rule is 20% discount at restaurants (all day, not just lunch like in WDW), 20% discount at the stores and 20% discount on tours.


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## littlestar

Wonder if this means I can pick up some more resale points for cheaper?   Just booked Disney Aulani at Koolina for my daughter next month on our DVC points and almost fainted at what it costs to stay there on cash!


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## rhonda

blackjack said:


> What is the discount for AP?  Does the discount apply for Disneyland as well as Orlando?  Thanks.


It is a meager (insulting!) discount for Disneyland APs.  You might be better off with SoCal passes/pricing.



			
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> 
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## Southerngirl528

rickandcindy23 said:


> Well, I was planning to buy two small contracts with either my name or Rick's name along with our sons' names also on the contract.  I guess I will go the resale route and then add the 25 points through Disney later, if that would get me what I need.  I need them to get the perks of discounted AP's.  When the Star Wars area is all done, my second son, huge Star Wars fan, will take his kids often.
> 
> Sad that Disney has gone down the road of other sleazy developers.  Someone paid retail for the points others buy resale.  They still got their profit once!  And their ROFR process means they get to buy the points back even cheaper with this new devaluation.  Why do they have to devalue what we all own and may one day want to sell?  Unbelievable.



Sorry you feel so slighted by "sleazy" Disney, but I've owned DVC since the early 90's and we didn't have hardly any of the discounts and perks now offered. Perks/benefits have come and gone for both direct and resale members. All contracts very clearly state that what we are purchasing is an interest in a timeshare and NOT any perks/discounts or benefits outside of that. I was not happy when they did away with the free valet parking but I enjoyed it while it lasted. I continue to enjoy fabulous accommodations that in most cases I could not afford to reserve with cash. I regularly book GV's with my DVC points that would cost me a fortune with cash. I may be temporarily sad to see bennies come and go but I still love my membership.

Lastly, I cannot think of a TS that does not have some sort of restriction on their resales. I certainly have some restrictions with the MVC TS I bought resale.


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## Lisa P

Southerngirl528 said:


> I've owned DVC since the early 90's and we didn't have hardly any of the discounts and perks now offered.


 Hm.  True, no discounts on park passes back then... because DVC gave FREE park tickets to DVC members who were staying on points at DVC resorts until year 2000.  :rofl:  Oh how times have changed.  Back then, DVC would not even use the word "timeshare" and they marketed the company brilliantly, effectively distancing themselves from the rest of the industry.  But that was then.


Southerngirl528 said:


> All contracts very clearly state that what we are purchasing is an interest in a timeshare and NOT any perks/discounts or benefits outside of that.


 Also true... and it's good advice to anyone considering any timeshare purchase to only count on what's in writing.

However, the argument that benefits come and go, is not what this is about.  The difference here is that those benefits *will now* only come and go for *some* members/owners.  And because of this... you no longer have points that could potentially be sold in the same way that you had last week.  When you bought, you were not informed that you would not be able to resell your membership as an equivalent membership in benefit availability to other DVC memberships.  You were simply told that your points could be rented, sold, or willed to heirs... with the implication being that a potential buyer would see equivalent value between your points and DVC's "new" points from the same home resort.

If you never sell, you may not care that DVC has devalued your membership's monetary value and ease of resell.  But others here have good reason to see this as a greedy business practice:  It exclusively *helps* Disney's bottom line while it exclusively *hurts* DVC members' bottom line (when/if they eventually opt to sell their points).  Just because so many other timeshare companies have done this same thing in the last decade or so, and Disney is late to the party, doesn't make such practice any less "sleazy".


Southerngirl528 said:


> I cannot think of a TS that does not have some sort of restriction on their resales. I certainly have some restrictions with the MVC TS I bought resale.


 Perhaps.  And that's exactly what Cindy was suggesting... with this business decision, DVC has followed right along in the footsteps of other greedy timeshare companies.    When we sold our DVC points, it was not because of any of this.  We still enjoy occasional vacations at DVC resorts.  We may even buy back in, some day.  Who knows?

When Wyndham made our resale points ineligible for some benefits, it made no practical difference to us because we didn't care about those benefits and we don't plan to sell.  But we paid *a couple thousand dollars* for our first resale Wyndham/Fairfield contract back in the 1990's, when they were FairShare Plus points.  A couple years after Wyndham pulled benefits from these resale points, we were given a terrific Wyndham points contract for *FREE*, paying only closing costs.  In both cases, we bought contracts from original owners who had paid full developer retail price and lost money when they sold to us.  The sellers who resold to us after this policy change, lost thousands more than others!  Meanwhile, when this seller was losing so much more, Wyndham was increasing their developer sales and profits.

Now, we do still enjoy our Wyndham resort stays immensely.  We may even purchase more resale points because we like the resorts and the system overall very much.  But make no mistake, Wyndham devalued *ALL* of the contracts of Wyndham owners when they pulled benefits from resales.  And in the same way, Disney *has indeed devalued* what you and every other DVC member owns (and could resell).  We felt that this decision at Wyndham was greedy, if not outright sleazy.  I don't give Disney a pass, either.  It's just as bad... maybe worse when considering the kind of image of DVC that they've marketed all these years.  Just my opinion.


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## dioxide45

rickandcindy23 said:


> Well, I was planning to buy two small contracts with either my name or Rick's name along with our sons' names also on the contract.  I guess I will go the resale route and then add the 25 points through Disney later, if that would get me what I need.  I need them to get the perks of discounted AP's.  When the Star Wars area is all done, my second son, huge Star Wars fan, will take his kids often.
> 
> Sad that Disney has gone down the road of other sleazy developers.  Someone paid retail for the points others buy resale.  They still got their profit once!  And their ROFR process means they get to buy the points back even cheaper with this new devaluation.  Why do they have to devalue what we all own and may one day want to sell?  Unbelievable.



I don't know what 25 points would cost, but I would surely suspect that it would be more than any discount you would get on passes? Perhaps I am wrong? Just pay full price, in many cases with most timeshare programs, the added cost to buy from the developer isn't worth the incremental benefits that the direct purchase offers.


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## rickandcindy23

Southerngirl528 said:


> Sorry you feel so slighted by "sleazy" Disney, but I've owned DVC since the early 90's and we didn't have hardly any of the discounts and perks now offered. Perks/benefits have come and gone for both direct and resale members. All contracts very clearly state that what we are purchasing is an interest in a timeshare and NOT any perks/discounts or benefits outside of that. I was not happy when they did away with the free valet parking but I enjoyed it while it lasted. I continue to enjoy fabulous accommodations that in most cases I could not afford to reserve with cash. I regularly book GV's with my DVC points that would cost me a fortune with cash. I may be temporarily sad to see bennies come and go but I still love my membership.
> 
> Lastly, I cannot think of a TS that does not have some sort of restriction on their resales. I certainly have some restrictions with the MVC TS I bought resale.



Lisa P. is absolutely right!  

As I said, someone paid retail once, and Disney made their profit once.  They don't need to continue to resell the same points for ridiculously high prices, especially when they get them cheaply in the ROFR process because they devalued their product.  THEY devalued their product so THEY can make more money.  It's sleazy to the nth degree.

It ultimately hurts owners because THEY chose to take away benefits.  Don't take it personally, either, because I love Disney parks and Disney everything.  We just went on a Disney cruise with four oceanview deluxe family rooms for our kids and grandkids.  

You will feel differently when those OKW points can be had for $40 per point.


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## rickandcindy23

TUGBrian said:


> this is a shame.
> 
> just more proof that major developers do not support the resale market at all....truly a shame for owners.


Absolutely.  It's spitting in the face of owners who want to resell at some point, hoping to get something back from their original purchase.


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## Southerngirl528

LisaP, you make some great points. And yes, because DVC was such an "under the radar" foray into the TS world, they did offer free park passes for those that bought in the first 3 or 4 yrs or so. I was blessed to get that. The minimum points purchase was 230 points when we bought so it was not a small purchase. I was only able to use the ticket promo twice as we could not afford to travel with our large family but twice during that time frame. But I will tell you that there were a LOT of members that did have that great promo for buying so early on that had fits when the year 2000 rolled around. You would have thought they were never told, nor that the end date for that promo was boldly outlined in their/our contracts. Guess the truth is that none of us, me included, like having fun stuff taken away. 

Though not a member "perk" per se, I do recall a couple of times in the past where you could get a free Disney cruise if you purchased a minimum amount. Those days of good promos seem to be long gone. 

I do not in anyway feel like my 500 points are devalued. The main reason is that I have more than gotten my money's worth in over 20 years. Even factoring in what my dues cost I am still getting a bargain on accommodations. And that is if I never, ever get any sort of perk or discount again until my membership ends.

I saved a truckload of $$ by buying a resale week with MVC and because it's resale I am not privy to some perks/benefits that direct purchasers have. MVC has a VIP program with "Executive" and "Chairman" levels. I do not feel "slighted" or deprived, nor do I believe my resale week is devalued because of MVC's policy for resale owners. I feel I got my "benefits/perks/discounts" by the bucketload when I saved so much buying on the secondary market. 

And rickandcindy, in no way did I mean to offend and I understand and appreciate that you love Disney. And like your family, mine also loves DCL. I have used my membership points to book several for my brood and wouldn't take a mint for those memories. It's possible you could be right about future devaluation but when I look at what the cash rates are for what I can book on my points at my home resort of OKW, or the trips we take to Aulani, I am very, very happy. I wish you the best.


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## rickandcindy23

It's just sad that Disney decided to go that route.  As Lisa P. said, Disney wanted to set itself apart from the timeshare developers who think of new ways of taking away benefits for resale buyers.  

I love Disney, I truly do, and maybe I won't buy anymore points for our sons to get discounted AP's, but I could always rent the points for a profit.  

The next devaluation will be the inability for resale owners to book anywhere but their home resorts.  That is something a salesperson at Disney (his nose should have grown a foot) hinted would happen soon.  That was 2007, so he was totally lying.


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## Southerngirl528

rickandcindy23 said:


> It's just sad that Disney decided to go that route.  As Lisa P. said, Disney wanted to set itself apart from the timeshare developers who think of new ways of taking away benefits for resale buyers.
> 
> I love Disney, I truly do, and maybe I won't buy anymore points for our sons to get discounted AP's, but I could always rent the points for a profit.
> 
> The next devaluation will be the inability for resale owners to book anywhere but their home resorts.  That is something a salesperson at Disney (his nose should have grown a foot) hinted would happen soon.  That was 2007, so he was totally lying.



You and I certainly agree that DVC has changed. And not all for the good. I would truly be astonished if DVC ever imposed the home resort restriction though I don't say it's impossible. As for DVC Sales folks, IMO that is one of the bigger changes. It was so, so low-key and so forthright in those early years. I regularly hear stories now about DVC guides being more, um... shall we say, "traditional timeshare". And that makes me sad. There are still so many wonderful guides at DVC, my own included. But there have been changes...


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## Southerngirl528

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is that it just seems that these new rules were not rolled out in a way that was good for P.R. At all. Especially with the apparent correction already made from yesterday's initial rollout. It just seems it would have been better to give folks notice of a soon approaching FUTURE date for the new rules. That way folks would have been more informed. The way it was done seems to have caught some folks in process quite unaware.


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## rickandcindy23

What I would like is for the salespeople to say:

"By the way, you are paying this high price for perks and benefits others don't get in resale, and if you choose to sell your points at a later date, the benefits we give to you don't go to your buyer. So in other words, your points aren't worth nearly as much resale as you are paying retail."

Instead they will say:

"You should never buy resale because you don't get any of these perks as a resale buyer."  

The buyer won't follow through in their thinking with the obvious conclusion that they are buying something they cannot sell for even 60% of retail, or whatever percentage it will be.


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## Lisa P

dioxide45 said:


> I don't know what 25 points would cost, but I would surely suspect that it would be more than any discount you would get on passes? Perhaps I am wrong? Just pay full price, in many cases with most timeshare programs, the added cost to buy from the developer isn't worth the incremental benefits that the direct purchase offers.


Generally, I would agree with you.  It really depends on how much a particular family would save on perks and how long the perks will last.  25 points from DVC is probably around $4,000.  Another question is, whether DVC will raise the floor on the minimum size of an add-on.

Way back when, Fairfield/Wyndham allowed as few as 28,000 points for an add-on purchase.  Sometime after they dumped benefits for resale buyers, the minimum add-on went up to 77,000 points.  I'm not sure what it is now.  It would not surprise me a bit if DVC did something similar in the near future.


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## elaine

I have th perks, but would add on again in a heartbeat without them. Knowing resale rules can and do change (so far only non Timeshare benefits), I would ONLY buy at the resort where I wanted to stay. I bought last year @ AKV and am happy if all I get is access to my room, as I saved 40% over direct. I bought with the view that at some point, they could disallow switching or possibly give direct earlier access to rooms (11 mth booking and resale 10 or 9 month book) and then adjust trade outs (direct 7 mths, resales 5 mths). For many, that would be HUGE. But, with AKV have so many units, I could adjust. Others have reviewed the docs and say it's not possible, but it's not worth it to me to even worry about it. Plus, I get 11 mth priority (for now). Hopefully, they just tinker with extra perks. Sales really should ADD something instead of taking away. 3 VIP FP+ for everyone each time you come costs them nothing and would tip some into buying. Front row @ Lion King, special skip the line for new Star Wars land ride, etc. could all be done.


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## elleny76

IMO.. Don't worry  !  I think what is more important is to know you will be in property @ WDW and for a good price!  Perk or no perks I will buy resale anywhere... I have saved tons of money this way.  The AP in WDW you save only $100 per each (I think) so compare with the initial TS price paid by the original owner $$$$ .

The idea of buying 25 points from DVC is not bad idea at all (appx 4k-5k?) If you really want those perks. ( I use only the AP since we go to WDW 4-5 times a year)

We own 2 DVC and We usually stay at Bonnet Creek_Wyndham ( I love it there!) but My kids and DH loves SSR. We will be buying more points as soon as we can. The 20% or 10% in some of the perks is not a problem for us. We rent a car and we go different places to eat plus we shop and keep our condo full of stuff for the week. 

Seeing the face of my kids while in WDW is priceless


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## littlestar

I was disappointed that DVC did not announce this change ahead of time like they did the last time. That strikes me as poor judgment. 

I feel sorry for the folks in the middle of a resale purchase with no advance notice of the change. Very poor customer relations from Disney. Especially for a company that is supposed to be the best when it comes to customer/guest relations!


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## PearlCity

I saw this announcement when I happened to log into my account yesterday. It's silly so now it's on the shoulders of the minimally paid cashier at the store or restaurant to know if they should or shouldn't give you a discount? Seems silly to me!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## bnoble

The implementation is by the Blue Member ID Cards.  If your account is qualified (i.e. has a direct purchase or a resale purchase that closed prior to 4/4/16) you will be issued a Member Card.  If your account is not qualified, you won't be. The Member Card is supposed to be presented for each perk/discount.


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## PearlCity

bnoble said:


> The implementation is by the Blue Member ID Cards.  If your account is qualified (i.e. has a direct purchase or a resale purchase that closed prior to 4/4/16) you will be issued a Member Card.  If your account is not qualified, you won't be. The Member Card is supposed to be presented for each perk/discount.


Ahh got it!!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## vacationhopeful

bnoble said:


> The implementation is by the Blue Member ID Cards.  If your account is qualified (i.e. has a direct purchase or a resale purchase that closed prior to 4/4/16) you will be issued a Member Card.  If your account is not qualified, you won't be. The Member Card is supposed to be presented for each perk/discount.



Does that mean, only the few overspenders and the OLD resale owners, will get the "Welcome Home" greeting ... morning, noon and night?


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## bnoble

vacationhopeful said:


> Does that mean, only the few overspenders and the OLD resale owners, will get the "Welcome Home" greeting ... morning, noon and night?



No, because I get that too as a lowly exchanger.


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## ljmiii

Southerngirl528 said:


> Lastly, I cannot think of a TS that does not have some sort of restriction on their resales.


Well...DVC when you and I bought is the obvious answer. When I bought the difference between resale and direct was so small - about 10% - that it came down to where you wanted your home resort. There was no real advantage to buying resale. But when I finally decided to buy at BLT (which didn't exist back then) I looked at the prices and resale was the obvious answer. And with each turn of the screw DCL is increasing the spread between the direct and resale price making it less and less likely that anyone not making an impulse purchase will buy from Disney.

Of course nothing compares with what Marriott has done to the resale value of existing weeks owners by allowing 13 month DP reservations and destroying the II market.

But if Disney wanted to ever sell to anyone but the naive/uninformed buyer I have a simple suggestion. Return to the policy that all owners are equal.


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## Southerngirl528

elaine said:


> I have th perks, but would add on again in a heartbeat without them. Knowing resale rules can and do change (so far only non Timeshare benefits), I would ONLY buy at the resort where I wanted to stay. I bought last year @ AKV and am happy if all I get is access to my room, as I saved 40% over direct. I bought with the view that at some point, they could disallow switching or possibly give direct earlier access to rooms (11 mth booking and resale 10 or 9 month book) and then adjust trade outs (direct 7 mths, resales 5 mths). For many, that would be HUGE. But, with AKV have so many units, I could adjust. Others have reviewed the docs and say it's not possible, but it's not worth it to me to even worry about it. Plus, I get 11 mth priority (for now). Hopefully, they just tinker with extra perks. Sales really should ADD something instead of taking away. 3 VIP FP+ for everyone each time you come costs them nothing and would tip some into buying. Front row @ Lion King, special skip the line for new Star Wars land ride, etc. could all be done.



So glad you are happy with your DVC membership, Elaine. Me too! 

As for the VIP FP, while I personally LOVE the idea, one has only to think of how large the current membership is and how many DVC members/guests are onsite at any given time to know that this is extremely unlikely to happen. DVC has no access to WDW FP except as negotiated and given by WDW. That is why there have been changes to how FP are given by DVC. They got their hands slapped a couple of years back for offering them for something other than a tour incentive. And WDW restricts where the DVC FP can be used.


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## pedro47

Will this move causes the DVC timeshare market to go up or what ?


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## vacationhopeful

pedro47 said:


> Will this move causes the DVC timeshare market to go up or what ?



More restrictions on resales usually cause the market price on resales to DROP. Many families MIGHT have brought a 100 point or less DVC contract for access and discounts on APs & dining. 

Will it boost directly buying from DVC? Simple answer, NO. 

The typical middle class family of 5 would ONLY save $500 on APs every year. A direct buy from DVC would cost WAY more of a factor OVER the savings.

A friend of mine PAID cash for a week stay in BLT penthouse/conceignor floor several years ago. He had NO PROBLEM paying for ANY SERVICE he wanted  .. he is above MIDDLE CLASS but NOT rich. He felt that it was LESS hassle to have goffers run errands (like getting more diapers for his youngest) than doing anything other than going to the parks each day, some pool time and then choosing where to dine. The staff stocked his favorite beverage in their reception area .. ice cold. He was happy; wife was happy; kids happy ... DAMN THE BILL ... he did NOT care. He was on family vacation. 

And his brother and that family did the same trip the year before. Same spend the money for service and ease .. for the Disney experience.

He did NOT understand WHY I would own DVC points or any timeshare. Easy to just rent as vacation and be handled by the floor staff working there.


----------



## Sicnarf

By devaluing DVC ownership Disney holds owners hostage to their units.  But that is not different from SVN owners of voluntary resorts only allowed to use their home resort. However, I believe the change should only apply to resale of developer purchases going forward.  In my mind all DVC units prior to this change should be grand fathered and the rights and privilege should pass on to resale buyers.


----------



## dioxide45

Sicnarf said:


> By devaluing DVC ownership Disney holds owners hostage to their units.  But that is not different from SVN owners of voluntary resorts only allowed to use their home resort. However, I believe the change should only apply to resale of developer purchases going forward.  In my mind all DVC units prior to this change should be grand fathered and the rights and privilege should pass on to resale buyers.



I believe they have already indicated that they are grandfathering in all prior DVC resale purchases.


----------



## capjak

dioxide45 said:


> I believe they have already indicated that they are grandfathering in all prior DVC resale purchases.



I got my letter today and it states that regardless of where or when you bought (prior to April 2016) your benefits do not change as a result of this "enhancement".

I have one resale DVC that has no restrictions and I have one that has the 2010 restriction, guess I need to get another to see if they can keep track of them?


----------



## Southerngirl528

dioxide45 said:


> I believe they have already indicated that they are grandfathering in all prior DVC resale purchases.



Agreed. That announcement was made yesterday I believe. My understanding is that if DVC received a resale contract by end of day April 3rd, those folks are grandfathered in.


----------



## Southerngirl528

capjak said:


> I got my letter today and it states that regardless of where or when you bought (prior to April 2016) your benefits do not change as a result of this "enhancement".
> 
> I have one resale DVC that has no restrictions and I have one that has the 2010 restriction, guess I need to get another to see if they can keep track of them?




You only need one direct purchase or pre March 2011 purchase to still get whatever perks/benefits might be offered. 

I've been a member since the beginning of DVC and the perks have for the most part been relatively insignificant. The addition of an annual pass discount is the only one of any real impact IMO, and I have not utilized that discount as I do not go that many park days in any given year. I still love DVC for exactly what it is:  a points-based system with tremendous flexibility that gives me access to some wonderful resorts at a greatly decreased price. And that won't change.

I think DVC's biggest mistake was not differentiation between resale and direct for so many years. And then of course they have allowed resales to become very widespread so the chickens finally came home to roost. Resales have been hurting direct sales for some time.  I am in the camp that thinks DVC has really started to out-price themselves, & they apparently had not been exercising ROFR that often so little wonder that resales have ramped up so much. And the resale value has been very strong for the most part.


----------



## littlestar

Southerngirl528 said:


> Agreed. That announcement was made yesterday I believe. My understanding is that if DVC received a resale contract by end of day April 3rd, those folks are grandfathered in.



Good. They needed to change their original position for the folks in the middle of purchases. That was making the mouse look like a big fat rat!


----------



## frank808

Southerngirl528 said:


> I've been a member since the beginning of DVC and the perks have for the most part been relatively insignificant. The addition of an annual pass discount is the only one of any real impact IMO, and I have not utilized that discount as I do not go that many park days in any given year. I still love DVC for exactly what it is:  a points-based system with tremendous flexibility that gives me access to some wonderful resorts at a greatly decreased price. And that won't change.
> 
> I think DVC's biggest mistake was not differentiation between resale and direct for so many years. And then of course they have allowed resales to become very widespread so the chickens finally came home to roost. Resales have been hurting direct sales for some time.  I am in the camp that thinks DVC has really started to out-price themselves, & they apparently had not been exercising ROFR that often so little wonder that resales have ramped up so much. And the resale value has been very strong for the most part.



Totally agree with the above post.  Except we have not been members since the beginning.


----------



## freediverdude

vacationhopeful said:


> More restrictions on resales usually cause the market price on resales to DROP. Many families MIGHT have brought a 100 point or less DVC contract for access and discounts on APs & dining.
> 
> Will it boost directly buying from DVC? Simple answer, NO.
> 
> The typical middle class family of 5 would ONLY save $500 on APs every year. A direct buy from DVC would cost WAY more of a factor OVER the savings.
> 
> A friend of mine PAID cash for a week stay in BLT penthouse/conceignor floor several years ago. He had NO PROBLEM paying for ANY SERVICE he wanted  .. he is above MIDDLE CLASS but NOT rich. He felt that it was LESS hassle to have goffers run errands (like getting more diapers for his youngest) than doing anything other than going to the parks each day, some pool time and then choosing where to dine. The staff stocked his favorite beverage in their reception area .. ice cold. He was happy; wife was happy; kids happy ... DAMN THE BILL ... he did NOT care. He was on family vacation.
> 
> And his brother and that family did the same trip the year before. Same spend the money for service and ease .. for the Disney experience.
> 
> He did NOT understand WHY I would own DVC points or any timeshare. Easy to just rent as vacation and be handled by the floor staff working there.



Well, if he stayed where I think he did (BLT doesn't have a concierge floor, but the main Contemporary building does), then he spent as much on that SINGLE TRIP as it cost to buy a sizable DVC contract.  And the BLT DVC person will be staying in that same location (or have access to others) for the next however many years, 40? Until the contract runs out.  AND have a villa instead of a regular hotel room.  Yes, some people didn't run around getting some diapers or drinks for him, but as usual at Disney, you really pay exponentially more for anything extra like that to the point that it is not really worth it for most people.


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## JudyS

As a DVC owner, this devalues my property, so I am not pleased. 

I suppose if there's a glimmer of hope, it's that DVC might start adding more owner perks to encourage developer sales. Resale owners who are grandfathered in might receive those new benefits as well.

But overall, a very unwelcome change.


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## joanncanary

*end date*

With all of these changes, one thing Disney has not changed is that each resort membership has an end date. Other timeshares like Wyndham are life long memberships. I was an original owner of DVC when there was only one resort, yes got the free tickets for 8 years but had to sell when college for my daughter was a priority. I was then able to buy a smaller resale contract and I still love DVC but receiving that letter really turned my stomach and I told my husband that I will not go to Disney next year and I never miss my yearly Disney trip... Yes I am grandfathered in but I am very disappointed with Disney, they were the best that you could ever have and I have gotten so many others to join but now they are like all others. I enjoy using my wyndham points and trading in to extend my time of happiness and they were a fraction of the cost. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing like owning Disney points I could never live without them again but the spirit of Disney is faltering and I am sad.


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## freediverdude

All of this makes me wonder if Disney is getting ready to announce some really big perk, one that they will only be able to afford to give to current owners and people paying the new direct pricing.  Or they feel like they have to try to limit the number of people going to some of the events in the future, because the membership keeps growing.


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## icydog

SueDonJ said:


> DVC and all the other timeshare systems walk a fine line when devaluing external resales to the extent that their direct sales don't suffer for it.  IMO their direct sales are helped by restricting ancillary discounts, but they'd be just as hurt as you if they severely restrict external resales.
> 
> Taking AP and other discounts away from resale purchasers, that's a carrot dangling in front of a could-be direct purchaser that impacts existing owners only slightly.  Restricting external resales to home resort usage only, that's a punishment that depresses any and all external market activity to the severe detriment of DVC as well as every owner.  It would leave DVC in the position that they'd have to take back every non-performing contract or risk the resorts falling into disrepair and arrears, because owners who won't want them anymore - or won't be able to afford them anymore - will have no way to unload them.  Eventually that would lead to more and more owners wanting to get out because the added costs of the non-performers will be on their shoulders, at which time DVC will have no choice but to supplement the non-performers or disconnect from the resort.  They don't want either scenario to happen.
> 
> Buying Vero as an exchanger in order to save money is rather short-sighted, isn't it, considering the annual MF cost for Vero is so much more than the others?  I wouldn't think that too many savvy purchasers, which external resale purchasers usually are, would be doing that.



I once owned a Vero contract. The cost per point in MFs made it an untenable choice for Disney Vacation Club points. So no that is not a good option. 



Lisa P said:


> Hm.  True, no discounts on park passes back then... because DVC gave FREE park tickets to DVC members who were staying on points at DVC resorts until year 2000.  :rofl:  Oh how times have changed.  Back then, DVC would not even use the word "timeshare" and they marketed the company brilliantly, effectively distancing themselves from the rest of the industry.  But that was then.
> Also true... and it's good advice to anyone considering any timeshare purchase to only count on what's in writing.
> 
> However, the argument that benefits come and go, is not what this is about.  The difference here is that those benefits *will now* only come and go for *some* members/owners.  And because of this... you no longer have points that could potentially be sold in the same way that you had last week.  When you bought, you were not informed that you would not be able to resell your membership as an equivalent membership in benefit availability to other DVC memberships.  You were simply told that your points could be rented, sold, or willed to heirs... with the implication being that a potential buyer would see equivalent value between your points and DVC's "new" points from the same home resort.
> 
> If you never sell, you may not care that DVC has devalued your membership's monetary value and ease of resell.  But others here have good reason to see this as a greedy business practice:  It exclusively *helps* Disney's bottom line while it exclusively *hurts* DVC members' bottom line (when/if they eventually opt to sell their points).  Just because so many other timeshare companies have done this same thing in the last decade or so, and Disney is late to the party, doesn't make such practice any less "sleazy".
> Perhaps.  And that's exactly what Cindy was suggesting... with this business decision, DVC has followed right along in the footsteps of other greedy timeshare companies.    When we sold our DVC points, it was not because of any of this.  We still enjoy occasional vacations at DVC resorts.  We may even buy back in, some day.  Who knows?
> 
> When Wyndham made our resale points ineligible for some benefits, it made no practical difference to us because we didn't care about those benefits and we don't plan to sell.  But we paid *a couple thousand dollars* for our first resale Wyndham/Fairfield contract back in the 1990's, when they were FairShare Plus points.  A couple years after Wyndham pulled benefits from these resale points, we were given a terrific Wyndham points contract for *FREE*, paying only closing costs.  In both cases, we bought contracts from original owners who had paid full developer retail price and lost money when they sold to us.  The sellers who resold to us after this policy change, lost thousands more than others!  Meanwhile, when this seller was losing so much more, Wyndham was increasing their developer sales and profits.
> 
> Now, we do still enjoy our Wyndham resort stays immensely.  We may even purchase more resale points because we like the resorts and the system overall very much.  But make no mistake, Wyndham devalued *ALL* of the contracts of Wyndham owners when they pulled benefits from resales.  And in the same way, Disney *has indeed devalued* what you and every other DVC member owns (and could resell).  We felt that this decision at Wyndham was greedy, if not outright sleazy.  I don't give Disney a pass, either. * It's just as bad... maybe worse when considering the kind of image of DVC that they've marketed all these years.  Just my opinion*.




I think everyone is taking this too much to heart. The only devaluations are to annual passes and other non essential perks. Calm down. There is no way you can compare Disney Vacation Club to Wyndham. I owned 1500 points that I bought from Disney. I sold them and repurchased the same resorts resale. For me the only downside is not being able to go on the member cruise. 



dioxide45 said:


> I don't know what 25 points would cost, but I would surely suspect that it would be more than any discount you would get on passes? Perhaps I am wrodong? Just pay full price, in many cases with most timeshare programs, the added cost to buy from the developer isn't worth the incremental benefits that the direct purchase offers.



I was going to buy a 25 point contract to go on a Disney Cruise but I decided it wasn't worth the cash outlay. 



JudyS said:


> As a DVC owner, this devalues my property, so I am not pleased.
> 
> I suppose if there's a glimmer of hope, it's that DVC might start adding more owner perks to encourage developer sales. Resale owners who are grandfathered in might receive those new benefits as well.
> 
> But overall, a very unwelcome change.



I agree, any change that has a negative impact is unwelcome. I just don't think this change is that big a deal! Breathe in.. Breathe out! Repeat.


----------



## bnoble

freediverdude said:


> All of this makes me wonder if Disney is getting ready to announce some really big perk


They are offering the evening upcharge event to DVC Members, but I suspect that's more because the event is not selling well vs. a draw for direct sales.

https://twitter.com/CentralMorgan/status/720333252209160193


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## JudyS

bnoble said:


> They are offering the evening upcharge event to DVC Members, but I suspect that's more because the event is not selling well vs. a draw for direct sales.
> 
> https://twitter.com/CentralMorgan/status/720333252209160193


The hard-ticketed Extra Magic Hours event is now $149 for non-DVC members???  I remember when it was $10. 

Yeah, I know Disney is a publicly held company that needs to turn a profit. But Walt Disney wanted his theme parks as a place where families could be happy together, not primarily as a profit center. The Disney Corporation is moving further and further from Walt's vision.


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## Jason245

JudyS said:


> The hard-ticketed Extra Magic Hours event is now $149 for non-DVC members???  I remember when it was $10.
> 
> Yeah, I know Disney is a publicly held company that needs to turn a profit. But Walt Disney wanted his theme parks as a place where families could be happy together, not primarily as a profit center. The Disney Corporation is moving further and further from Walt's vision.


The whole family can be happy together for 1 week.. after that they need to all get 2 jobs and start selling blood for another week of happiness a year later  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## elleny76

Jason245..... I have laughed the whole hour after reading your comment....:rofl::rofl::rofl:







Jason245 said:


> The whole family can be happy together for 1 week.. after that they need to all get 2 jobs and start selling blood for another week of happiness a year later
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## Jason245

elleny76 said:


> Jason245..... I have laughed the whole hour after reading your comment....:rofl::rofl::rofl:



Glad I could brighten your day.


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## rfc0001

Southerngirl528 said:


> I had heard about this from an insider last week. The response will be interesting. It doesn't really impact usage of DVC at all. Just the perks/benefits from what I understand.


What, and you didn't post the rumor online?   Could have saved a lot of resale purchasers some headache, although to be honest, even with a week notice, you wouldn't have time to get a contract submitted for ROFR.


capjak said:


> Would it impact the purchase of annual passes? Would that discount be eliminated for new resale buyers, because that is the only benefit I believe is useful?


Incidental Benefits are required under Florida Statue to be explicitly disclosed.  The DVC Membership Extras Acknowledgment and Disclosure describes DVC's Incidental Benefits, including discounted tickets, discounted APs, merchandise discounts, dining discounts, and more nebulous "Special Programs" (which presumably includes things like the free member beach bash, but also could be used to describe almost anything, e.g. the Epcot Member Lounge could be considered a "Special Program").


blondietink said:


> Interesting that I, as a DVC member who purchased directly over 10 years ago, did not receive this communication directly from DVC via email, but had to find out about this here.  Personally this will not affect our family.


It was added as a Notification when you log into dvcmember.com on or after April 4.  They also mailed a paper copy on April 4 which members received a couple days later.  Regardless, it doesn't apply to existing members.


TUGBrian said:


> this is a shame.
> 
> just more proof that major developers do not support the resale market at all....truly a shame for owners.


Isn't this par for the course though for Incidental Benefits for other timeshare systems?


blackjack said:


> What is the discount for AP?  Does the discount apply for Disneyland as well as Orlando?  Thanks.


The difference in price for family of 4 between a DVC Gold AP (with Christmas/Easter blockout dates) and standard AP is $850 for 4 new APs.  See my WDW Ticket Chart for all ticket, ticket options, APs, blockout dates, benefits, and Florida/AP discounts.


rhonda said:


> blondietink said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no discounts on AP's or any general ticket to Disneyland in California for DVC members.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a meager (insulting!) discount for Disneyland APs.  You might be better off with SoCal passes/pricing.
Click to expand...

Yep, a small one -- almost not worth mentioning   Agree, SoCal City Pass is the best value for 3 Day DLR Hopper + LEGOLAND + SeaWorld :whoopie:


Lisa P said:


> dioxide45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what 25 points would cost, but I would surely suspect that it would be more than any discount you would get on passes? Perhaps I am wrong? Just pay full price, in many cases with most timeshare programs, the added cost to buy from the developer isn't worth the incremental benefits that the direct purchase offers.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, I would agree with you.  It really depends on how much a particular family would save on perks and how long the perks will last.  25 points from DVC is probably around $4,000.  Another question is, whether DVC will raise the floor on the minimum size of an add-on.
Click to expand...

Worst case for a WDW resort, the _difference _between direct and resale for a 25 point contract is going to be $2,000, easily recouped after 2 sets of 4 DVC APs.  At up to $850 savings for a set of 4, even if you only plan on receiving that benefit for 20 years, that's a NPV of $17,000 or $680/pt. -- well worth the difference I price (<$85/pt.).  I'm not considering the other benefits since you get them with APs as well.


rickandcindy23 said:


> Absolutely.  It's spitting in the face of owners who want to resell at some point, hoping to get something back from their original purchase.


Resale prices did drop in 2011 when the first resale restrictions, but so did the entire housing market due to the recession.  Clearly, they have recovered, and then some (almost double in some cases).  This too shall pass.


elleny76 said:


> vacationhopeful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean, only the few overspenders and the OLD resale owners, will get the "Welcome Home" greeting ... morning, noon and night?
> 
> 
> 
> Jason245..... I have laughed the whole hour after reading your comment....:rofl::rofl:
Click to expand...

Exactly   Hello tenant!


pedro47 said:


> Will this move causes the DVC timeshare market to go up or what ?


If you are referring to direct, then yes -- which is the whole goal.  Now, first time buyers swept up in the magic at WDW will be less likely to get cold feet or rescind after a timeshare presentation since they will justify buying their first contract direct then adding on resale, given all the benefits -- same day access to membership/points, closing within 2 weeks, available financing, loaded contracts (previous and current UY points with only proportional current UY dues), hotel/cruise benefits, and now Membership Extras.  The financially saavy folks will still buy resale, but be more likely to add-on direct.  Combined, these will almost certainly boost direct sales.


JudyS said:


> bnoble said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are offering the evening upcharge event to DVC Members, but I suspect that's more because the event is not selling well vs. a draw for direct sales.
> 
> https://twitter.com/CentralMorgan/status/720333252209160193
> 
> 
> 
> The hard-ticketed Extra Magic Hours event is now $149 for non-DVC members???  I remember when it was $10.
> 
> Yeah, I know Disney is a publicly held company that needs to turn a profit. But Walt Disney wanted his theme parks as a place where families could be happy together, not primarily as a profit center. The Disney Corporation is moving further and further from Walt's vision.
Click to expand...

There is also a new Early Morning Magic as well...and premium parking.  You can thank Bob for all these new "opportunities" :ignore:


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## Lisa P

rfc0001 said:


> Now, first time buyers swept up in the magic at WDW will be less likely to get cold feet or rescind after a timeshare presentation since they will justify buying their first contract direct then adding on resale, given all the benefits -- same day access to membership/points, closing within 2 weeks, available financing, loaded contracts (previous and current UY points with only proportional current UY dues), hotel/cruise benefits, and now Membership Extras.  The financially saavy folks will still buy direct, but be more likely to add-on direct.  Combined, these will almost certainly boost direct sales.


Helpful post... and I share in your expectation that this move will boost direct sales on both fronts, with first time buyers who don't rescind and with future resale purchasers who will decide add some direct purchase points to their account, ultimately having more points than originally planned.  I suspect you intended to say the "financially savvy folks will still buy *resale*, but be more likely to add-on direct"???


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## littlestar

Jason245 said:


> The whole family can be happy together for 1 week.. after that they need to all get 2 jobs and start selling blood for another week of happiness a year later
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk



I laughed so hard at your post.  I had a mental picture of turning the kids up-side-down trying to shake money out of their pockets.


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## rfc0001

Lisa P said:


> Helpful post... and I share in your expectation that this move will boost direct sales on both fronts, with first time buyers who don't rescind and with future resale purchasers who will decide add some direct purchase points to their account, ultimately having more points than originally planned.  I suspect you intended to say the "financially savvy folks will still buy *resale*, but be more likely to add-on direct"???


Thanks!  Ah,  yes -- was referring to buying _resale _ then adding on direct  (25 pt. minimum contract) -- corrected


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## Jason245

littlestar said:


> I laughed so hard at your post.  I had a mental picture of turning the kids up-side-down trying to shake money out of their pockets.


I think the imaginary commentary of trying to explain why you are doing that to a toddler would be even funnier. .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## elleny76

Thank you for the good laugh!:hysterical:    

We go to WDW every 3 months (NJ here!)  My kids love it and we just love to see them smiling. We get the WDW Gold_ AP  since we have   AP for seaworld_Aquatica and we use the water park all the time. Once they are older then we will get the  WDW AP platinum.

We save $$ in the Disney vacation account per month and at the end of year we have enough to buy AP+ Etc. 

Its pricey but the memories are amazing! 




UOTE=Jason245;1878595]I think the imaginary commentary of trying to explain why you are doing that to a toddler would be even funnier. .

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


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## ronparise

Let be the first to welcome all you Disney owners to the land of the one dollar timeshare


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## vacationhopeful

ronparise said:


> Let be the first to welcome all you Disney owners to the land of the one dollar timeshare



And with greatly watered down benefits.


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## Jason245

ronparise said:


> Let be the first to welcome all you Disney owners to the land of the one dollar timeshare


Excellent. .. I have been waiting for this day to come... 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## Dean

ronparise said:


> Let be the first to welcome all you Disney owners to the land of the one dollar timeshare


I'll take the bet on the side that it won't happen.  In reality it'll likely make little difference in the price with the current changes though I do think DVC is overpriced right now so some adjustment is likely in order.


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## jbug423

i purchased my dvc contract direct in 2011 at blt, if i add on points at blt through a resale will the restrictions affect me if a book a room with the total points of both contracts.


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## Dean

jbug423 said:


> i purchased my dvc contract direct in 2011 at blt, if i add on points at blt through a resale will the restrictions affect me if a book a room with the total points of both contracts.


Likely but unknown.  They could change it in the future such that contracts wouldn't be combined.  But for most perks if you're a qualified owner you should get the benefits regardless of which points are used.


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## rickandcindy23

Everyone should be disappointed their DVC value decreased with the lack of benefits in resale.  

I don't understand the people who say DVC should have done this long ago.  Really?  So you think once someone has paid retail for Disney that resale points should have less value?  Who benefits from that argument.  If you own points, don't you think it's too bad your buyer someday cannot reap the same rewards?    So you think selling cheaper is better for you?  That's what it comes down to.


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## bnoble

jbug423 said:


> i purchased my dvc contract direct in 2011 at blt, if i add on points at blt through a resale will the restrictions affect me if a book a room with the total points of both contracts.



No. The new restrictions are on the definition of "Member." If you have any qualifying points in your account, you are a Member.


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## carl2591

*Disney Vacation CLub*

yes you are correct. Its sad that disney has decided to devalue the resale market. 

It a periscope view of what this country has come to .. greed all the time. 

I it's like buying a used car with low miles and factory warranty then the factory telling you the warranty is not in force because you bought it used.

Between Wastegate, Wyndham and now Disney trying to screw the resale owners the industry is in a pot full of crap.. glad i have my airstream and will be timeshareing very little in the future. 

good luck to the rest. 




rickandcindy23 said:


> Well, I was planning to buy two small contracts with either my name or Rick's name along with our sons' names also on the contract.  I guess I will go the resale route and then add the 25 points through Disney later, if that would get me what I need.  I need them to get the perks of discounted AP's.  When the Star Wars area is all done, my second son, huge Star Wars fan, will take his kids often.
> 
> Sad that Disney has gone down the road of other sleazy developers.  Someone paid retail for the points others buy resale.  They still got their profit once!  And their ROFR process means they get to buy the points back even cheaper with this new devaluation.  Why do they have to devalue what we all own and may one day want to sell?  Unbelievable.


----------

