# Resale doesn't allow for VIP benefits and upgrades



## newbie2005 (Sep 3, 2016)

Ok is this true?
If I don't buy from the developer, I will not get the following benefits:

VIP benefits:
-25 - 50% off of all booking 
-Early checkin and late check out
-free room upgrades

Free RCI membership for life

Free Plus Partners: where I can use points for airlines and theme park tickets

Resale points can't rollover for 3 years and can't borrow from the future.  

I asked about buying points in resale market and this is what they told me.  They mark resale points as non-eligible points or something like that (alien points O.O).


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Sep 3, 2016)

*READ the thread - Acct review email ( acct suspended ) ( in the Wyndham forum )*

Hi Newbie2005,
Welcome to TUG since this is your first post  

when did you hear these details in a sales presentation ? ( Sept 2 ? ) 

************

I am not a Wyndham owner - but have been reading THAT thread since it started
Aug 24 2016

Wyndham owners with a million plus points are wondering too-
 -about how benefits they paid for NOW work /

.
I am sure they will have a lot to say

.


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## Ty1on (Sep 3, 2016)

newbie2005 said:


> Ok is this true?
> If I don't buy from the developer, I will not get the following benefits:
> 
> VIP benefits:
> ...



Almost all true.

A:  Everyone gets membership in RCI, even resale.  It's not free, it's in the Club Fee.

B:  Only developer bought gets Plus Partners, but it isn't free.  They pay an extra $0.02 per 1000 points for it.  It is the worse possible use for your points, short of letting them expire.

You'd need to ask yourself it the points discounts, early check in and late check out and room upgrades (based on availability at 60 days) are worth the $150,000+ it would take you to get to Platinum (a little less if you PIC).


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## whitewater (Sep 3, 2016)

*VIP benefits:*

I will preface what I'm about to share as my understanding based on my limited time and reading.  Others will have more intimate knowledge and understanding.  

*-25 - 50% off of all booking*  - only 60 days before do you get these benefits.  ask yourself if you inventory you will want will be free at those points.  you can book - then cancel & re-book however you run the risk of cancelling and then your room not being available.
*-Early checkin and late check out* (correct)
*-free room upgrades* (if available - again booking at high season lessons this happening b/c of resort demand but yes it can/does happen)

if you travel at off season times the discount could work for you.  That said you can purchase a lot of points re-sale and get the usefulness of points for what you need.  Granted your MF would be higher with more points but your up-front cost is also less.  


*Free RCI membership for life *you are paying for it with your club fees.  nothing is free

*Free Plus Partners: where I can use points for airlines and theme park tickets *the conversion is not worth what you give up but yes this is my understanding

*Resale points can't rollover for 3 years and can't borrow from the future*. you can credit pool points (put away for future)  this has to happen before your use year starts.  (meaning I could pool my 2017 points between now and the end of 2016).  you can borrow points from future years - i'm not as familiar with this others should be able to help

*
my advice:*
I'd suggest determining how many weeks you want to timeshare, then determine what size rooms, when you want to travel, where.  This will allow you to determine your points needs.  Then its simple math - purchase new = $xxxxxx purchase resale at 15% of the original price = $xxxx

Remember 10-13 months is whats needed to plan in advance.  

then ask yourself which makes sense.  

also would suggest you reading the member directory inside and out.  All info you need is in there.  knowing the rules of the wyndham system is key to taking full advantage of their system.   & do the new to timesharing questionnaire.  Its very helpful:  http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208742

Read the Wyndham Advice Articles they are essential to further understanding the system:  [URL="http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/wyndham_points_introduction.html"]http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/wyndham_points_introduction.html[/URL]


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## bnoble (Sep 3, 2016)

newbie2005 said:


> Ok is this true?
> If I don't buy from the developer, I will not get the following benefits:
> 
> VIP benefits:
> ...



VIP discounts/upgrades: No, you don't get that.
RCI: Yes you do.
Plus Partners: No (but most of those are horrible deals). At one point you could sign up for this separately. Not sure if you still can, but it's pricey.
Rollover: You can do this, it is called the "Points Credit Pool"
Borrowing: Yes, for any reservation in the Express Window, you can also "Pool backwards" to use future points for later reservations.


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## cayman01 (Sep 3, 2016)

*discounts*

Guessing you got this from a sales presentation. The above replies pretty much cover it. Understand that to get the 50% discount you have to buy 1,000,000 points or more. And it only applies to inventory available 60 days or less from your travel date.


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## scootr5 (Sep 3, 2016)

bnoble said:


> RCI: Yes you do.



Well, not "for life" but for as long as you own Wyndham. I'm pretty sure that's the same for a developer purchase too?


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## uscav8r (Sep 3, 2016)

scootr5 said:


> Well, not "for life" but for as long as you own Wyndham. I'm pretty sure that's the same for a developer purchase too?



That is correct. 


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## uscav8r (Sep 3, 2016)

As in all salesperson pitches, there is just enough truth in there to obscure the half-truths and outright lies. 

The "inability" to extend points (called pooling) being the most egregious lie. 

The half-truths include the discount (it is NOT for all bookings), late check out (no such beast, but VIP can check in 3 hours early depending on availability), and RCI for life (it only lasts as long as you own Wyndham and is included for all owners). 

Many of the supposed perks are only available IF you buy enough to get to a VIP level of at least 400k. You could be looking at $80k retail. You could also get that same 400k credits for roughly $4000, give or take a couple grand. 


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## newbie2005 (Sep 3, 2016)

*Ya'll are awesome!*

Thank you for all your thoughtful replies. I know for sure with PIC points, they can't be pooled for 3 years. This is the reason why I was unsure about resale points.  The thing is with VIP I also get unlimited housekeeping credits, 10-15 free guest reservations etc....its a lot of info to weigh. How much is the housekeeping credit,  vip benefits be worth over the long run for me?  These are the questions I'm asking myself. I got a wealth of info here. Thank you again for your time.


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## whitewater (Sep 3, 2016)

newbie2005 said:


> Thank you for all your thoughtful replies. I know for sure with PIC points, they can't be pooled for 3 years. This is the reason why I was unsure about resale points.  The thing is with VIP I also get unlimited housekeeping credits, 10-15 free guest reservations etc....its a lot of info to weigh. How much is the housekeeping credit,  vip benefits be worth over the long run for me?  These are the questions I'm asking myself. I got a wealth of info here. Thank you again for your time.



You will have to really try to use all your house keeping credits  plus at the cost to purchase you will have 4 lifetimes of less cost purchasing resale. 

That said if you want it have at it. Sounds like you feel there is value there that makes sense for you.


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## cayman01 (Sep 3, 2016)

*Hold on.....*



newbie2005 said:


> Thank you for all your thoughtful replies. I know for sure with PIC points, they can't be pooled for 3 years. This is the reason why I was unsure about resale points.  The thing is with VIP I also get unlimited housekeeping credits, 10-15 free guest reservations etc....its a lot of info to weigh. How much is the housekeeping credit,  vip benefits be worth over the long run for me?  These are the questions I'm asking myself. I got a wealth of info here. Thank you again for your time.



Again I feel the salesman has mislead you a bit. On Guest Confirmations you get 10 free ones if you buy up to Gold level VIP (700,000 pts.), 15 free ones if you buy Platnum VIP (1,000,000 pts) and 15 more for each subsequent million.

I think you need to take some time and really read through the Wyndham part of TUG. The salesman is NOT giving you the whole story. Take some time and really read through the different posts here. There is a wealth of information here and it will give you a complete look at what you get with Wyndham. Not just the salesman's view.


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## newbie2005 (Sep 3, 2016)

I will definitely read what you guys suggested.  I don't know if the developer is a better value or not.  I actually have a in with a Wyndham employee and I would be able to get it for a discount.  But the thing is, it's really hard to trust anyone in the timeshare industry due to...well...you know their reputation.  And I get that not all timeshares are bad.  I'm just trying to keep an open mind about all sides of the story. I don't feel that the salesperson misled me.  He was very transparent about all the details.  He's a friend of mine...I mean not good enough for me to check his info, but he showed me the VIP chart in the back of the book.  I have the book now, and I've been studying it.  I mean there is no way he can give me all the info in one sitting.  He told me that 2.  Timeshares are complicated.  Hence, my research.  I also know 2 people who are happy Wyndham owners, but all of them bought from the developer.


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## whitewater (Sep 3, 2016)

newbie2005 said:


> I will definitely read what you guys suggested.  I don't know if the developer is a better value or not.  I actually have a in with a Wyndham employee and I would be able to get it for a discount.  But the thing is, it's really hard to trust anyone in the timeshare industry due to...well...you know their reputation.  And I get that not all timeshares are bad.  I'm just trying to keep an open mind about all sides of the story. I don't feel that the salesperson misled me.  He was very transparent about all the details.  He's a friend of mine...I mean not good enough for me to check his info, but he showed me the VIP chart in the back of the book.  I have the book now, and I've been studying it.  I mean there is no way he can give me all the info in one sitting.  He told me that 2.  Timeshares are complicated.  Hence, my research.  I also know 2 people who are happy Wyndham owners, but all of them bought from the developer.




good luck......


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## ronparise (Sep 3, 2016)

newbie2005 said:


> I will definitely read what you guys suggested.  I don't know if the developer is a better value or not.  I actually have a in with a Wyndham employee and I would be able to get it for a discount.  But the thing is, it's really hard to trust anyone in the timeshare industry due to...well...you know their reputation.  And I get that not all timeshares are bad.  I'm just trying to keep an open mind about all sides of the story. I don't feel that the salesperson misled me.  He was very transparent about all the details.  He's a friend of mine...I mean not good enough for me to check his info, but he showed me the VIP chart in the back of the book.  I have the book now, and I've been studying it.  I mean there is no way he can give me all the info in one sitting.  He told me that 2.  Timeshares are complicated.  Hence, my research.  I also know 2 people who are happy Wyndham owners, but all of them bought from the developer.




Wyndham is an excellent product whether you buy it from the developer or on the secondary market. and whether you buy it from the developer or not the points work the same when making reservations at the resorts

The only difference is what they cost. Points from the developer cost about $200/1000 and on the secondary market about $10/1000

There are of course extra benefits offered as inducements to buy from the developer. So the question is: are those benefits worth the money?

 And the answer is almost always  no


We can run the numbers if you like
  The only real benefit is the gold or platinum discount. A platinum account is going to cost you about $150000.and  maintenance fees of about $6000 per year Lets assume you will get that discount for every reservation. So to duplicate that with resale points you would need 2 million points which will cost you about $20000 and mf of $12000 a year 

So at the end of 20 years the developer purchase will have cost $150000 + (20x$6000) or $270,000. And the resale $20000 + (20x$12000) or $260000

If it was me and if I had $150000 I'd buy the resale points for $20000 and buy a goof muni bond with the other $130000   At 5% that bond will pay  half my $12000 mf   so at the end of 20 years I'd still own the 2 million points and I'd still have my $130000 and the guy that bought from Wyndham will only have his million points and no cash


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## whitewater (Sep 4, 2016)

ronparise said:


> Wyndham is an excellent product whether you buy it from the developer or on the secondary market. and whether you buy it from the developer or not the points work the same when making reservations at the resorts
> 
> The only difference is what they cost. Points from the developer cost about $200/1000 and on the secondary market about $10/1000
> 
> ...




Good comparision Ron.  And that assumes that you always get VIP discount 90 days before booking.  

As an example:  for kicks I have been seeing what units at bonnet creek are available weeks 51 & 52.  only 1 BR unit week 51 is available.  it could change but do you want chance you vacation plans?  I cannot afford to as I have kids who are in school.  

Plus Ron's comparison assumes you have 120k laying around.  That does not include finance charges.

I fail to find a way that it makes sense.  That said I purchased resale and am happy with my purchase.  

People often seek to validate their decisions by convincing others of the merit of making the same decision so you could still may find a way that makes sense for you beyond economics.  

I echo what Ron says.  The resorts are great and I find the rules fair.  Plan 13-10 months out and I can go anywhere I want so far.


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## uscav8r (Sep 4, 2016)

whitewater said:


> ...And that assumes that you always get VIP discount 90 days before booking...



The VIP discount is at 60 days, but concur with all else.  




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## ecwinch (Sep 4, 2016)

Late checkout would be a great benefit ... If it was not a lie.


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## Jan M. (Sep 4, 2016)

*things to consider about VIP benefits*

Silver       25% within 60 days and free upgrades within 30 days
Gold        35%                                                        45
Platinum  50%                                                        60

I completely agree with what others have stated, unless you can buy enough points to at least reach gold level it isn't worth purchasing directly from Wyndham.

If your buddy can get you a really good deal on a large point package here is what I think is critical for you to consider.

!, How are you going to use the points? Can you make your travel plans within 60 days most of the time? How flexible is your work and family life schedule? The VIP benefits are wonderful but only if you are able to make good use of them.
2. How flexible is your family with your travel destinations? Does your family have one or two resorts that they absolutely have to have every year? If you couldn't find a reservation say at Panama City Beach would your family be just as happy going to Ocean Walk in Daytona?
3. Are you counting on renting stays to help cover the cost of the maintenance fees? You cannot compete with a platinum owner unless you can rent to people who are not smart enough to look on eBay or Craigslist. For instance, a week at Bonnet Creek in the summertime in a 3 bedroom deluxe will need 308,000 points for the resale owner. A platinum owner can potentially get that same reservation for 83,000-112,000 with the discount and free upgrade. The platinum owner can sell the stay and make money and no one is likely to pay you what you need to just break even for the mf's on the number of points for that reservation. You yourself can rent from a platinum owner cheaper than the maintenance fees on the points needed for that reservation.
4. Do you have the time and patience to be at the computer at 7:00AM and checking back throughout the day to find reservations within the 60 day window? Yes you can do the book, cancel and rebook but you take the risk of losing the stay. Would you be totally screwed if you lost a reservation? Or would you rather make the reservations at 7:00AM on the day of the max ARP window for the resorts and dates you want and just be done with it?
5. What is your long range plan? Are you looking to use this for say under 10 years and then get out or are you looking for something that you, your parents, children, grandchildren and other family can all use for many years to come.
6. If you were to buy directly from Wyndham or even resale, do you have family that you would be completely comfortable sharing the use of the points, the purchase cost and maintenance fee expenses with? You can have co-owners on an account but you would need to agree and designate one or two people at most to manage the account and bookings. For a family group the VIP benefits can be worth the extra expense in the long run in my opinion
7. Finally the Cost! Can you comfortably afford to purchase, pay the maintenance fees, and still be able to travel if you were to purchase a large point package directly from Wyndham?


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## luvNMB52 (Sep 5, 2016)

newbie2005 said:


> Thank you for all your thoughtful replies. I know for sure with PIC points, they can't be pooled for 3 years. This is the reason why I was unsure about resale points.  The thing is with VIP I also get unlimited housekeeping credits, 10-15 free guest reservations etc....its a lot of info to weigh. How much is the housekeeping credit,  vip benefits be worth over the long run for me?  These are the questions I'm asking myself. I got a wealth of info here. Thank you again for your time.



We bought developer points in 2004 and are grandfathered Silver VIP. (Didn't find out about resale points until a few years ago.)  We live 2hrs away from North Myrtle Beach and take many 3-4 day trips there. Our schedule is flexible because we are retired.  I have run the numbers against renting from NMB realty companies and we have definitely saved $$ with our Silver VIP points. Upgrades and no housekeeping costs (which can add up with lots of short trips) probably save us the most.


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## newbie2005 (Sep 5, 2016)

I'm going in with 2 other relatives.  I totally agree with you.  VIP is really the best value IF I do Wyndham.  I can add up to 6 people I think into 1 contract.  I am also definitely gonna rent out the points to pay for maintenance. My estimated maintenance will pretty much be covered by my friends and Airbnb.   I already have friends who want to rent. 

Regarding waiting 60 days or whatever window for the discount, I don't mind.  There are a series of specific questions apparently that I can ask in 1 phone call to not lose my room that I wanted.  Like my friend said to ask, "What rooms are available?" and if they say studio, 2 bd, 3bd and I wanted 2 bd.  I can say hey cancel move me to studio and on the same phone call rebook the 2bd as the free upgrade.  It's fine.  I have to jump hoops to get discounts in the rental market anyways.  

Also, the thing about resale points is that from what I've heard, Wyndham is constantly updating their computer system.  They already code resale points a different way than dev points. From what my friend is saying, they are completely aware of resale points issue and they're rolling out a new program to restrict resale points next year. (Again I already take every info with a grain of salt) This is the thing that I'm concerned about resale.  Wyndham has the power to put restrictions on resale points.  Maybe a mix of VIP, PIC and resale is the best way to go.  Regardless, I think since I'm a serious traveler, "renting" vacations is really not a deal.  I do think that points based timeshares is the way to go....I'm still unsure about resale though.  This is quite a lively discussion and appreciate everyone's feedback.


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## Ty1on (Sep 5, 2016)

newbie2005 said:


> I'm going in with 2 other relatives.  I totally agree with you.  VIP is really the best value IF I do Wyndham.  I can add up to 6 people I think into 1 contract.  I am also definitely gonna rent out the points to pay for maintenance. My estimated maintenance will pretty much be covered by my friends and Airbnb.   I already have friends who want to rent.
> 
> Regarding waiting 60 days or whatever window for the discount, I don't mind.  There are a series of specific questions apparently that I can ask in 1 phone call to not lose my room that I wanted.  Like my friend said to ask, "What rooms are available?" and if they say studio, 2 bd, 3bd and I wanted 2 bd.  I can say hey cancel move me to studio and on the same phone call rebook the 2bd as the free upgrade.  It's fine.  I have to jump hoops to get discounts in the rental market anyways.
> 
> Also, the thing about resale points is that from what I've heard, Wyndham is constantly updating their computer system.  They already code resale points a different way than dev points. From what my friend is saying, they are completely aware of resale points issue and they're rolling out a new program to restrict resale points next year. (Again I already take every info with a grain of salt) This is the thing that I'm concerned about resale.  Wyndham has the power to put restrictions on resale points.  Maybe a mix of VIP, PIC and resale is the best way to go.  Regardless, I think since I'm a serious traveler, "renting" vacations is really not a deal.  I do think that points based timeshares is the way to go....I'm still unsure about resale though.  This is quite a lively discussion and appreciate everyone's feedback.



It seems to me that you asked questions to which you think you already know the answers.  Good luck with your ownership.  You'll enjoy it, whether you overpay or not.

By the way, I'm pretty sure you can only add 4 names to an account, so check up on that.  Also, 3 families in on one account can get ugly, as warned pretty often around here.


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## markb53 (Sep 6, 2016)

newbie2005 said:


> Also, the thing about resale points is that from what I've heard, Wyndham is constantly updating their computer system.  They already code resale points a different way than dev points. From what my friend is saying, they are completely aware of resale points issue and they're rolling out a new program to restrict resale points next year. (Again I already take every info with a grain of salt) This is the thing that I'm concerned about resale.  Wyndham has the power to put restrictions on resale points.  Maybe a mix of VIP, PIC and resale is the best way to go.  Regardless, I think since I'm a serious traveler, "renting" vacations is really not a deal.  I do think that points based timeshares is the way to go....I'm still unsure about resale though.  This is quite a lively discussion and appreciate everyone's feedback.



Well I'm sure you heard that from your friend in sales. I've owned resale Wyndham for 5 years and been to lots of updates. I've been told lots of times by sales "You know, next year Wyndham's going to change the system so resale points can only book at the home resort and not anywhere else". I personally don't believe that is possible. Access to the entire system is mostly a deeded right. What's not a deeded right and what Wyndham can change any time and has, is the VIP benefits. Wyndham could decide any time that the VIP benefits are not worth the cost and cancel the VIP program. Don't think that is likely either. But at least that is possible. Resale owers are still owners and if they tried to change the plan just for them, they would get hit the the biggest class action lawsuit they've had yet. I think most of the sales staff don't know they are telling lies. They all believe it  because that is what they are told by there managers. They are not owners themselves even though they often claim they are. They have no direct experience with using the system, just selling the system. As you mentioned earlier, take everything you hear from sales with a grain of salt. As people around here have been saying for a long time. " How can you tell if someone in sales is lying. Their lips are moving".


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## Ty1on (Sep 6, 2016)

I agree with Mark.  Just because what your friend is telling you isn't true doesn't mean he's lying to you.  He could be repeating what other weasels are teaching him.  Orrrrr he could value that commission more than your friendship.  Not that I've ever met any salespeople that would fleece their friends or family to make a buck .

And just so you have an independent number to look against, if you're paying $150 or more, he really isn't getting you a discount.  They are running $180-$200, negotiable down to $150 without your friend's help.


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## ecwinch (Sep 6, 2016)

Ty1on said:


> I agree with Mark.  Just because what your friend is telling you isn't true doesn't mean he's lying to you.  He could be repeating what other weasels are teaching him.  Orrrrr he could value that commission more than your friendship.  Not that I've ever met any salespeople that would fleece their friends or family to make a buck .



Friends maybe, but not family. Sharks don't eat their own.


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## Ty1on (Sep 6, 2016)

ecwinch said:


> Friends maybe, but not family. Sharks don't eat their own.



You should meet my family.


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