# World Mark vs Wyndham Vacation ownership



## jatatjr (Feb 26, 2012)

Hi, Im new here and I was look at WM vs. WVacation.  I would like to purchase resale and save a lil and it seems that WM will give you more points wtih the least amout for maintence fees.  I was hoping to stay aroud 600-1200 yearly. Any suggestions thanks


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## ausman (Feb 26, 2012)

Worldmark and Wyndham points do not equate. They are different animals. 

Generally, Worldmark is stronger, with more resorts, on the West Coast. Wyndham has most resorts on the East Coast.

Where you want to go should determine which system you pick.

You are smart to be looking at the ongoing carrying costs, if willing to spent $1,200/yr then you will need to look at the Maintenance Fees and how many Wyndham or Worldmark points you will get. 

For Wyndham, $5-$6/K now seems to be good, with some lower ones available with research and the right opportunity available.

You should look through the resorts and points charts to see if $1,200/6 = 200K points will get you what is needed, as a beginning.


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## ronparise (Feb 26, 2012)

I own Wyndham and I am now looking at Worldmark.. here are some of the differences I see

1) Most of the Wyndham resorts are in the east, most worldmark in the west
2) Worldmark mf is cheaper, but its more expensive to buy in
3) Worldmark is a club (no deeds) Wyndham for the most part is deeded
4) Worldmark hasnt added many new resorts in the last several years, Wyndham is growing
5) worldmark is selling on the secondary market for about 20% of retail. Wyndham is less
6) One Worldmark owner can transfer credits to another, and the going rate is about mf..and there is a very active markrtplace for these "one time use credits" so you can buy a small package of points and vacation large. Wyndham doesnt allow these inter owner transfers
7) worldmark allows short stays and check in any day
8)WYndham has an advance reservation priority at your home resort,, The concept of home resort doesnt exist in Worldmark..
9) Wyndham charges guest fees worldmark does not


Heres a real world comparison

Wyndham and Worldmark both have buildings in San Francisco Wyndhan requires 300000 points for a week in a one bedroom. worldmark 11500 credits
at $5/1000 points mf a wyndham owner will pay $1500 for a week, a worldmark owner with a 12500 credit account will spend $725 and have enough credits left over for an 8th night


My usual advice when considering a timeshare purchase is to consider where you want to vacation and buy there. I wanted resorts close to my home, so that means Wyndham is best for me...but I really like what Im learning about Worldmark and have contracted to buy a small package of credits...I will be using them in SanFrancisco when I visit my daughter...actually I'll stay in my daughters home with the grandkids and let my daughter and her husband use the timeshare for a a couple of nights for themselves, in the city

There is a Worldmark owners forum, here  and an informative website run bu a Worldmark owner here


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## SOS8260456 (Feb 26, 2012)

ronparise said:


> ...actually I'll stay in my daughters home with the grandkids and let my daughter and her husband use the timeshare for a a couple of nights for themselves, in the city





   What a wonderful thing to do for your daughter and son-in-law!

We actually started with Worldmark along time ago and like it very much, but since we are on the east coast, we eventually sold the Worldmark and went the Wyndham route.  We have just recently started testing the waters with a small Blue green contract.  Again, they have resort near our home, so we are following the buy where you want to go advice.


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## ronparise (Feb 26, 2012)

SOS8260456 said:


> What a wonderful thing to do for your daughter and son-in-law!



Purely selfish motives...I can raid the refrigerator, and spoil the grandkids without interference from Mom and Dad


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## jatatjr (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks for all the replys please keep them coming you guys are a big help. Next question will the use of the RCI or II take care of the properties on the east coast. Being that Im in Louisiana we travel more east and south, but the other reason for looking at the timeshare route is to explore more directions via west and north than we would do on our own. Any thoughts?


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## ronparise (Feb 27, 2012)

If we really cant pin you down to where you want to vacation, It sounds like you need to go the same route as me...buy both

a small package of Worldmark with the opportunity to buy one time use credits from other owners gives you the West at a reasonable cost, and Wyndham, gives you the East.


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## jdunn1 (Feb 27, 2012)

As a WM owner who lives in Ohio, I only use WM for trading in II and RCI.  Very good use of WM points, especially for RCI.

However, I have found booking WM resorts to be very difficult.  The popular resorts and the popular accomdations at the various resorts often get booked by owners who are able to take advantage of a rule within WM that allows owners to book popular weeks before everyone else.  I don't understand the rule completely myself but for example, I wanted to book OceanWalk (Daytona Beach) in a 3 bedroom for Easter week of 2013.  WM has eight 3 bedrooms.  The first day everyone should be able to book those units is March 1st at 9AM, EST (13 months before check-in).  Well, all three bedrooms for OceanWalk are already gone for Easter week, 2013.  The popular views at the WM West Coast get booked before the 13 month reservation window, too.

I would go with Wyndham over WM is your intent is to actually stay at the resorts.  With the exception of Orlando and Daytona Beach, there are no WM properties on the East Coast.  Also, Wyndham owners have much better access to WM properties than WM owners do to Wyndham properties.


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## cotraveller (Feb 27, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> Also, Wyndham owners have much better access to WM properties than WM owners do to Wyndham properties.



I'm still trying to understand your comment.  As I reported a couple of weeks ago in a different thread I see 26 Wyndham resorts that I can book using WorldMark credits.  Another Tugger reported they saw 26 WorldMark units available for Wyndham owners. That seems pretty even to me.

What is the basis for your position that Wyndham owners have better access to WorldMark resorts than WorldMark owners have to Wyndham resorts?


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## jdunn1 (Feb 27, 2012)

cotraveller said:


> I'm still trying to understand your comment.  As I reported a couple of weeks ago in a different thread I see 26 Wyndham resorts that I can book using WorldMark credits.  Another Tugger reported they saw 26 WorldMark units available for Wyndham owners. That seems pretty even to me.
> 
> What is the basis for your position that Wyndham owners have better access to WorldMark resorts than WorldMark owners have to Wyndham resorts?




Wm owners can't trade into any Wyndham unless you were grandfathered in or you buy retail. Any Wyndham owner can trade into wm resorts. Even for the few wm owners who can trade into Wyndham there are so few room set aside for wm owners that it is not a very likely trade.


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## LLW (Feb 27, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> However, I have found booking WM resorts to be very difficult.  The popular resorts and the popular accomdations at the various resorts often get booked by owners who are able to take advantage of a rule within WM that allows owners to book popular weeks before everyone else.  I don't understand the rule completely myself but for example, I wanted to book OceanWalk (Daytona Beach) in a 3 bedroom for Easter week of 2013.  WM has eight 3 bedrooms.  The first day everyone should be able to book those units is March 1st at 9AM, EST (13 months before check-in).  Well, all three bedrooms for OceanWalk are already gone for Easter week, 2013.  The popular views at the WM West Coast get booked before the 13 month reservation window, too.



This is because WM bookings can start on any day of the week. Bookings can start the Monday before Easter (or before), and go through and past Easter. They can also start at other resorts and finish up at the popular resorts.

The difficulty of popular resorts getting booked way before unpopular ones is not a phenomenon limited to WM. It happens in every system - Marriott, Starwood, etc.


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## LLW (Feb 27, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> Wm owners can't trade into any Wyndham unless you were grandfathered in or you buy retail. Any Wyndham owner can trade into wm resorts. *Even for the few wm owners who can trade into Wyndham there are so few room set aside for wm owners that it is not a very likely trade*.



Wyndham owners have exactly the same number of rooms at WM. The agreement (TEN - the Exchange Network) allows for an even trade. Usually it's one to three rooms each at about a dozen resorts, and just dots on the map to help Wyndham Sales sell. If you ask WVR owners it's not easy to book WMs either, even though the salesmen may tell you otherwise when their lips are moving.

Can Wyndham owners who are not in Club Wyndham exchange through TEN into WM? I am not familiar with the WVR system.


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## ronparise (Feb 27, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> However, I have found booking WM resorts to be very difficult.  The popular resorts and the popular accomdations at the various resorts often get booked by owners who are able to take advantage of a rule within WM that allows owners to book popular weeks before everyone else.  I don't understand the rule completely myself but for example, I wanted to book OceanWalk (Daytona Beach) in a 3 bedroom for Easter week of 2013.  WM has eight 3 bedrooms.  The first day everyone should be able to book those units is March 1st at 9AM, EST (13 months before check-in).  Well, all three bedrooms for OceanWalk are already gone for Easter week, 2013.  The popular views at the WM West Coast get booked before the 13 month reservation window, too.



What they are doing is booking extra days that  they would call "throw away days"...you can do it too.. Its not a rule, its a trick. If you want to check in March 1st for 7 nights, call in on Feb 26,  13 months in advance and book a 10 day reservation...To save credits you can make what they call a grouped reservation. Make your reservation for 3 days in a studio at any resort and the 7 days where you want them.  Then either give away the first 3 days or just throw them away...It will cost you the wasted credits and a housekeeping token, but you can get what you want that way

Daytona may be a problem anyway..with only 20 units in the building and several hundred thousand worldmark owners thats a lot of possible compitition


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## slum808 (Feb 27, 2012)

Right now the WM on Maui are the same way. Because its winter getaway and whale watching season, all the rooms are booked at 13 mo + 1 week. So either you have to burn credits for a whole week in a studio or make it a two week trip and book the first week in someplace you'd like to stay but isn't in high demand. Its not very friendly to the small point owner.


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## cotraveller (Feb 27, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> Wm owners can't trade into any Wyndham unless you were grandfathered in or you buy retail. Any Wyndham owner can trade into wm resorts. Even for the few wm owners who can trade into Wyndham there are so few room set aside for wm owners that it is not a very likely trade.



True, only WorldMark accounts purchased prior to November, 2006 or TravelShare accounts upgraded or purchased through Wyndham, have direct access to Wyndham resorts or other resorts in The Exchange Network.  An account purchased resale after November, 2006 will not be able to book the Wyndham resorts with WorldMark credits.  

As for the numbers, the Auditors report of The Exchange Network agreement reported that as of December 31, 2010 there were 246,183 WorldMark owners who were eligible to participate.  That's around 98% of the total of 250,334 WorldMark owners at that time. The total ownership has seen further declines since then, but I suspect the percentage of TEN eligible owners is about the same.

As both I and LLW have pointed out, neither system has an advantage over the other as far as the number of units available.  There are an equal number of units in each system that are available for booking by owners of the other system. The number of units may be small, but it is still possible to find availability.  We enjoyed a nice 5 night stay at Wyndham Nashville a few years ago, booked with WorldMark credits from our grandfathered account.


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## ronparise (Feb 27, 2012)

From what i see in Worldmark, the problem is that nearly everything is sold

if Worldmark was a 10 unit building on the ocean 500 owners would represent a sold out status...sure everyone would get a week, but only  a 10  can get July 4th weekend

I think Worldmark is nearly sold out, and everyone wants that week in july


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## LLW (Feb 27, 2012)

ronparise said:


> From what i see in Worldmark, the problem is that nearly everything is sold
> 
> if Worldmark was a 10 unit building on the ocean 500 owners would represent a sold out status...sure everyone would get a week, but only  a 10  can get July 4th weekend
> 
> I think Worldmark is nearly sold out, and everyone wants that week in july



Actually, according to the latest Independent Auditor's Report accessible by all owners (12-31-10 - 2011 Financials will be available in April or May), about 15% of the total credits in WM are developer credits - unsold or delinquent accounts. So WM is not nearly sold out.

That is in addition to the owners who let their credits expire without using them, but keep paying maintenance dues (without them, it would be much different). Also in addition to the weeks allowed for Bonus Times and maintenance weeks (Trendwest sold only 48 weeks in a year; Wyndham sells 50).

The problem is not that WM is nearly sold out. It is that WM has no home resorts. So for school holidays, the popular and/or scarce units (e.g. 3BR) - yes, you need to know your intended units - for the popular weeks at the popular resorts go first; then popular weeks at the not so popular resorts; then the not so popular weeks at the not so popular resorts. Next go the school days. If you want off or shoulder season, you would have a much easier job of booking, and the MFs are much cheaper, because the credit values are much lower. 

Resorts with low credit values sell out first. For example, there are still a few units available at the nice new Anaheim resort for this summer, because the credit values there are extremely high compared to other resorts. At San Francisco, only studios are available for this summer on more than a one-or-two unit basis. But the waitlist works, as WM has a liberal cancellation policy.

Considering that the booking window opened in June of 2011 for July of 2012, people have had plenty of chance to book, unless they want a popular resort, or one where there are just a few units. Then they need to know how and when to book.

This is a problem at all systems where inventory is shared. But it is more acute where there is no home resort.

But as of today, you can still book some July 4 weeks in the WM system, just not at the popular resorts. If you want the popular or scarce resorts, you need to know how and when to book.


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## jdunn1 (Feb 27, 2012)

My WM points are AWESOME, don't get me wrong.  There just isn't another timeshare out there that trades both in II and RCI (and at the same credit value), has fairly reasonable dues, and where you can rent unlimited credits for the same price or less as owning those credits and paying the dues on them.  As impressive as HGVC is to me, WM has it beat because you can rent credits from other owners and get more vacation time if you want.  I love this feature of WM.

But, getting a popular week is nearly impossible for small point owners like me.  I guess I could waste a HK token and some credits to book a throw away week bt those HK tokens on the rental market are $60 each, and then the points have a good value, too.  If I had lots of point and HK tokens, that would be okay, but I only own 5k WM points.

As an example of how hard it is to book at WM resorts, the WM resort in Orlando, which looks nice but doesn't have a fancy location or pools or rooms (best I can tell, I have never been there) is nearly sold out for this summer all ready.  Now, this is either one gem of a resort, or it is a good example of how difficult it is to book a room within WM.  You had better book 13 months out and/or book a throw away week to get those holiday weeks, or Maui, or the 3 bedrooms, etc...

There is anothe guy here on TUG who says if he had to keep only two timeshares he would keep Marriott and WM.  I completely agree, that's how wonderful WM is.

WM is the BEST in RCI, too.  WM owners seem to get priority over anyone else in RCI, in my oppinion, too -- even with the TPU system and the preference given to being first in line.  Seems like WM owners come before everyone else in RCI.  That could be only my impression of WM in RCI but I know what I have been offered in RCI with my WM points and they have been trades that would seem impossible.  WM doesn't pull nearly as well in II, but it pulls just as great as Hyatt, just II has so many internal resort preference periods, it is hard to get a good Marriott or Starwood week, outside of flex.  With that said, I did just get a presidents day week 2013 trade into Marriott's Mountain Valley.  The cost for that trade was only 4k WM credits and a HK token ($300 maybee).  

Being an East coast guy, I like the Wyndham resorts better than the WM resorts, but only because I like the Wyndham Myrtle Beach resorts.  Likely the WM resorts along the Oregon and CA coast are just as nice and maybe nicer, but it's just so cold there.

WM is a lot of fun.  Only two things that would make it better in my oppinion would be no HK tokens and access to RCI points for all owners, not just travel share.  I really wish we had access to RCI points more than anything.  There are some DVC gems in points.


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## LLW (Feb 28, 2012)

jdunn1 said:


> As an example of how hard it is to book at WM resorts, the WM resort in Orlando, which looks nice but doesn't have a fancy location or pools or rooms (best I can tell, I have never been there) is nearly sold out for this summer all ready.  Now, this is either one gem of a resort, or it is a good example of how difficult it is to book a room within WM.  You had better book 13 months out and/or book a throw away week to get those holiday weeks, or Maui, or the 3 bedrooms, etc...



I have not looked at WM Orlando availability for a long time. Was it available at 13 months out?

A few suggestions:

1. Waitlist. Many owners book Orlando as a backup, and cancel when they get an Flexchange (4 K credits) at one of the many nicer resorts in Orlando (Marriott, etc.). Waitlist as soon as WM Orlando is booked out. It does not cost fee or credits until matched. If you are one of the first few in line you are almost guaranteed a unit.

2. Team up with a fellow WM owner who can book the week before you when it is available, and make a 2-week, "grouped", reservation. You can have up to 2 weeks in group with different check-in names. Those weeks do not have to be at the same resort or in the same unit type.

3. Use the book-and-switch method described in (1) above yourself.


There are more great advice regarding this in the VEI forum on WMO. The above are just what came right off my head.


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## nightnurse613 (Feb 28, 2012)

Ron makes an excellent comparison of the two systems. As he points out, I have been watching WM for several years, WM has a relatively stable resale value where Wyndham does not - and the ideal position is to buy the minimum points and purchase resale points as needed (again, relatively stable). There was a mention in another posting about the HK fee - that is based on each reservation meaning it costs one HK token for a two day stay or a seven day stay. When taken altogether, not a too unreasonable way to help the resort compensate for additional cleaning charges.


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