# Beware of II and their bad practices



## Snorkey (Jan 3, 2009)

I called them about exchanges and it seems like they don't care about their customers as much as I thought.
First complaint was if you get a request in, they will switch you to different units although they know which units are available.  They try to give you nicer unit in paper confirmation so you will keep that week.  Yes, some resorts II do not have control over but with some do, they switch them to attract more trades.
Second, they do not allow switching to different resorts even within 24 hours period of time.  I was put on hold for long time so I called later that night and they said it's been more than 24 hours although it was only 22 hours since they made exchanges.  It's best to instant exchange than to put on search request.  They WILL NOT make changes for you, period!
I am not happy with II and I bet many of Disney owners had problems also and maybe that is one of the reason why DVC left to RCI.
I will be going back to RCI.


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## calgal (Jan 3, 2009)

Snorkey, do you mean that you exchanged into a resort that you didn't request with your ongoing request and II refused to correct the mistake? What do you mean that the resort looked nicer on paper? Did you check into a resort and found its condition disappointing?  Please clarify.


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## Kenrabs (Jan 3, 2009)

I actually had the opposite experiance. I had a received an exchange for Kona Coast II Sat-Sat. When I was trying for another Hawaii week they gave me a Fri-Fri for the same week at KOCII. I called to cancel the second week and while doing so asked if I could keep that week and return the first one I received a few months earlier since it fit better with my Kawaii week. She did this with no penalties and continued my search for a 3rd Hawaii week. Most of my II experiances are pretty positive.


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## gmarine (Jan 3, 2009)

Your post is a bit confusing, can you clarify what happened? 

My experience with II has been very positive while my experience with RCI has been terrible.


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## timeos2 (Jan 4, 2009)

*The II machine rolls on*



Snorkey said:


> I called them about exchanges and it seems like they don't care about their customers as much as I thought..



No no no.  Like the Monty Python sketch where the interviewer says " I understand they nailed your head to a coffee table"  and the victim (II member?) says "No no no" until the camera pans out and you SEE the table nailed to his head.
"Oh, this? Well, yes, they DID do that but be fair. I did break the unwritten law".
Interviewer "And what was that?". 
Victim " Well, they wouldn't tell me THAT!"   

That sketch sums up what most II proponents seem to do to protect II.  Deny what you see for yourself has happened.  It is almost incredible that such an inept organization gets such support, but they do. Maybe Dinsdale still has control in II land. I'm moving on to the gas cooker sketch myself as I SAW the coffee table, er, total disdain for members and poor service that II seems to think represents "quality".  If you need an off season week in a studio for your 4 bedroom palace they got it. If you want something fair and comparable to your deposit you had better try RCI, SFX or a group that can actually deliver.

Now let the denials begin!


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## melschey (Jan 4, 2009)

gmarine said:


> Your post is a bit confusing, can you clarify what happened?
> 
> My experience with II has been very positive while my experience with RCI has been terrible.



I also have had better experiences with II as compared to RCI


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## Jbart74 (Jan 4, 2009)

I am so sick of these posts..............................................................

But we all have a right to speak our mind............................................

So happy new year to all, RCI and II alike!
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## shoji (Jan 4, 2009)

Wow, someone hates II.  Is this person complaining a DVC member, since he references Disney.  I wonder if DVC member will really like RCI better for exchanges?  Aren't all the best quality resorts on II (e.g. Four Seasons, Westin, Hyatt, and Marriott)?


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## dougp26364 (Jan 4, 2009)

I have both RCI and I.I. resorts. To date, I much prefer the service with I.I. to RCI. 

Now, is that saying the I.I. is a good company or is it saying the RCI is that much worse?


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## littlestar (Jan 4, 2009)

II has always swtiched things for me if I was in the 24 hour period. You probably should have just hung up and called back again - probably got someone having a bad day. 

If I was past the 24 hours, I have paid another exchange fee to switch to something else. I did this a few months ago for my daughter. I had an exchange into Disney's Old Key West for a spring week and my daughter decided she wanted to go Christmas week instead - so I got her a Marriott for Christmas instead. 

I was told by DVC Member Services that the reason (I am a Disney Vacation Club member) for the switch to RCI was for the "all inclusive resorts" and some of the high end fractionals and just more resorts to choose from at various locations. I personally would have liked to have seen a dual affiliation of both RCI and II - now that would have been great.


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## thinze3 (Jan 4, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> I have both RCI and I.I. resorts. To date, I much prefer the service with I.I. to RCI.
> 
> Now, is that saying the I.I. is a good company or is it saying the RCI is that much worse?




I had RCI first, then both, and finally dropped RCI. I have been much happier with II - so far.  

Terry


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## rsnash (Jan 4, 2009)

littlestar said:


> I was told by DVC Member Services that the reason (I am a Disney Vacation Club member) for the *switch to RCI was for the "all inclusive resorts" *and some of the high end fractionals and just more resorts to choose from at various locations. I personally would have liked to have seen a dual affiliation of both RCI and II - now that would have been great.



Does that mean that RCI has _more or less _all inclusive resorts? I don't feel that all inclusive resorts fit with my timesharing philosophy. Wherein, I want more room including a kitchen, so don't have to get dressed until after you've had breakfast/coffee. And, maybe save some money by cooking some other meals too.

The all inclusive exchanges all seem like bait and switch to me. You get what appears to be a great exchange, or cheap II Getaway, then you read the fine print where you have to pay upwards of $80-150 per person per day (i.e. $1100-2100 for a couple for a week) for the all inclusive fee. 

Now, you might say that you would spend that amount of money for restaurants and activities anyway, so it is a good deal. But, only if you are a non-adventurous eater and are willing to stay on property for a whole week. We prefer to rent a car and find local haunts. The food at all inclusives are rarely gourmet, usually buffet, fried, starchy, i.e. cheap and unhealthy.

Plus, they charge you extra for excursions off property anyway.

 

You know what? I'm so tiffed about this, I'm going to start a new thread with this post (since I seem to be veering off topic to the subject).


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## gmarine (Jan 4, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> No no no.  Like the Monty Python sketch where the interviewer says " I understand they nailed your head to a coffee table"  and the victim (II member?) says "No no no" until the camera pans out and you SEE the table nailed to his head.
> "Oh, this? Well, yes, they DID do that but be fair. I did break the unwritten law".
> Interviewer "And what was that?".
> Victim " Well, they wouldn't tell me THAT!"
> ...



You have previously posted that you get Marriott trades anytime you want using II. And that you can get good trades using II providing you are a member of a mini system that II favors.

Have you since canceled your II membership because you are unhappy with the service?


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## timeos2 (Jan 4, 2009)

*II earned my disrespect with "quailty" foulups*



gmarine said:


> You have previously posted that you get Marriott trades anytime you want using II. And that you can get good trades using II providing you are a member of a mini system that II favors.
> 
> Have you since canceled your II membership because you are unhappy with the service?



I canceled, with extreme prejudice, my individual II account in 2003. I have access to II as part of my Corporate membership from Diamond (The Club). That's how I discovered that the corporate members get all the perks in II vs the paying members who get treated like dirt. 

My three biggest gripes with II are fundamental, operational flaws. 

1.) They do not act in the members interest. Prime example the original $95, unfair fee they allowed DVC to impose that RCI didn't. It flew in the face of their own, written affiliation contract that every other resort had to sign (states there will be no extra fees to exchange guests) yet they rewrote it for DVC to steal them from RCI. Not right.

2.) Their favoritism to all their preferred groups and the corporate members. Example. I am depositing exactly the same week from the same resort either as a paying member or as a corporate account (free) user. The week when I PAY gets virtually nothing of equal size, date or value - just offers of off season, smaller, un-ranked resorts in areas we don't even request. This is a week that gets almost anything in RCI/SFX in the highest demand times & places. The exact same deposit with the corporate account?   It gets me anything in II (thus the Marriotts you mentioned) AND gives me back "change" in leftover Club points! I'm not using my whole deposit to get far more and at no membership cost. How is that right? I do better by not being an II member!

3.) If you had ever been on the RESORT side of the picture you'd really know how bad II is. Resort management has actually asked to drop affiliation with II as they are so bad at follow up or delivering on promises. They can't get resort descriptions right, deposits right, they don't follow through on promotions - it is a black hole after hearing that they will give you the world. Similar to their performance delivering "quality resorts" to members. Very poor. 

That ignores the amateur web site that has no fall back location and is down anytime anyone sneezes in Miami.  Ignores the many unwanted phone calls to take a resort/time/place/size you didn't want. Ignores the almost guaranteed inability to understand the "English" of most repsresentatives. The list goes on but the top three caused me to leave II as a paying member and I have never regretted it.    Now if I could only dump Wastegate too...


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## gmarine (Jan 4, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> I canceled, with extreme prejudice, my individual II account in 2003. I have access to II as part of my Corporate membership from Diamond (The Club). That's how I discovered that the corporate members get all the perks in II vs the paying members who get treated like dirt.
> 
> My three biggest gripes with II are fundamental, operational flaws.
> 
> ...



As you know, I have had good experiences with II and bad with RCI. It seems that however bad your experiences with II were, that RCI has many more complaints on TUG than II has.

I think one of the biggest problems with RCI is the canceling of confirmed exchanges. There have been many posts on TUG about this, which to me is totally unacceptable. I would have canceled RCI on the spot had that happened.

We will always disagree on II versus RCI. I tried RCI for one year and it was terrible. The choices of resorts where I wanted to travel (caribbean) were mostly low quality, service was poor and I especially hated the requirement to deposit first. I deposited my week and got offered junk for it and eventually had to accept something I didnt want.

With II I have gotten every request placed with the exception of one to the Westin St John. Now that DVC is with RCI I may try RCI with my Worldmark points if DVC is with Weeks for the sole purpose of getting DVC. 

I'm curious at to what happened to the OP. I hope it is clarified.


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## Snorkey (Jan 5, 2009)

I do agree RCI is terrible.  I have been pretty happy with II until recently.
I have changed more than 5 times in 2008 and they worked really well until my last exchange.
Hopefully II will not turn into RCI.  I will let you know how RCI is.


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## JudyS (Jan 5, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> I canceled, with extreme prejudice, my individual II account in 2003. I have access to II as part of my Corporate membership from Diamond (The Club). That's how I discovered that the corporate members get all the perks in II vs the paying members who get treated like dirt.
> 
> My three biggest gripes with II are fundamental, operational flaws.
> 
> ...


John, the comments on the resort side of thing are interesting -- I have no experience with this, and I definitely can see how that would be a problem.  And, I agree that the phone calls asking members to take something else can be an annoyance when doing an ongoing search. However, I have to take issue with your points #1 & #2.

#1:  As of last night, RCI is now charging the exact same $95 DVC resort fee.

#2: I really think the issue here was that the trade power of Orlando in II is very low.  When you trade your Sunterra Club points, presumably Sunterra gives II a "basket" of different locations, not just Orlando.  So, you don't get the low trade power that you do with depositing a specific Orlando week. 

The weeks I use in II are not part of any big group, and they get fabulous trades.  In fact, they trade FAR better in II than in RCI.  I assume that's because II has a shortage of units in their location, and RCI doesn't.


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## Snorkey (Jan 5, 2009)

Got exchanged into Disney with my small STUDIO.  Total cost is below $400 including MF and exchange fee.
I was surprised to see spring break Disney 1bedroom and studio in RCI.

I guess I will pay for $95 at check in?

Do II give refund if you cancel their membership?


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## Big Matt (Jan 5, 2009)

If you signed up for multiple years of membership and cancel before it's up, you get a portion back.  For example, you get the best discount by paying up front for five years.  Cancelling after year one gets you all the money back less the first year cost.



Snorkey said:


> Do II give refund if you cancel their membership?


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 5, 2009)

Snorkey, what studio did you depost to get the Disney?  Curious to know what you used.  

I agree with a lot of what John said, even though I am still a big II fan, I can see the problems with II, especially as a board member.

First, our management company had problems with II OVERBOOKING ski weeks, which caused the management company to scramble many times to place the visitors into alternative lodging.  This caused some very happy exchangers, who sometimes got private houses with five bedrooms and four bathrooms, but it also caused some exchangers to be upset to get a 2 bedroom, instead of the 3 bedroom they thought they were getting.  

Second, II wants our ski and prime summer weeks very badly, and they are offering us AC's for our weeks, but they aren't giving us very good trade power in return.  As a matter of fact, the trade power is woefully lower than it used to be, yet they still want to reward us with these AC's to get our weeks.  What sense does that make?  I will never deposit my Twin Rivers weeks into II again.  

Third, II witholds inventory.  RCI never witholds inventory.  What you see online with a supertrader is what is available with RCI.  You don't put in a request one day with RCI and get an exchange right away, unless it is just a coincidence that it just came available, or it was already visible and you didn't find it.  With II, much of the inventory is only for a few weeks out.  How many Hawaii weeks are in II for ten months out right now?  NONE, and it is so surprising to me that they would keep inventory from its' customers.  If you put in a request, much of the time, they grant it right away.  

Fourth, I also don't like the way II calls me all the time.  I don't want their constant phone calls when I have an ongoing search and the hangups from their auto-dialers.  

RCI is not perfect, and I would never defend them myself, but I think both companies have big problems that cannot be overlooked by those who belong to both out of necessity.  I wish I could drop one of my memberships, but I cannot.  I will just stick with both for now and be glad that neither of them are so bad I cannot figure it out.


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## ecwinch (Jan 5, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> They do not act in the members interest. Prime example the original $95, unfair fee they allowed DVC to impose that RCI didn't. It flew in the face of their own, written affiliation contract that every other resort had to sign (states there will be no extra fees to exchange guests) yet they rewrote it for DVC to steal them from RCI. Not right.



Guess you will be dropping your RCI membership next, as it appears the Mouse has convinced RCI to do the same. 

"Magical Express $95 Fee MANDATORY onall exchange guests; $95 Fee included on all rentals."
... from T&C on RCI Extra Vacations rental


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 5, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> Guess you will be dropping your RCI membership next, as it appears the Mouse has convinced RCI to do the same.
> 
> "Magical Express $95 Fee MANDATORY onall exchange guests; $95 Fee included on all rentals."
> ... from T&C on RCI Extra Vacations rental



That's not the reason John dropped II.


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## Snorkey (Jan 6, 2009)

I called II to cancel and this is how it goes......

One of my reservation is in August 2010.  My membership ends Feb. 2009, they said I have to renew my membership until I take my vacation.  I am forced to pay for the renewal or lose my reservation.


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## tashamen (Jan 6, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Third, II witholds inventory.  RCI never witholds inventory.  What you see online with a supertrader is what is available with RCI.  You don't put in a request one day with RCI and get an exchange right away, unless it is just a coincidence that it just came available, or it was already visible and you didn't find it.  With II, much of the inventory is only for a few weeks out.  How many Hawaii weeks are in II for ten months out right now?  NONE, and it is so surprising to me that they would keep inventory from its' customers.  If you put in a request, much of the time, they grant it right away.



I've always wondered about this - mainly because folks here have said that II withholds inventory, but I still am not convinced of that.  Maybe it's because there has only been one time when I put in a request with II that it was filled the next day - all my other requests have taken weeks, and sometimes months, to come through.


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## gmarine (Jan 6, 2009)

Snorkey said:


> I called II to cancel and this is how it goes......
> 
> One of my reservation is in August 2010.  My membership ends Feb. 2009, they said I have to renew my membership until I take my vacation.  I am forced to pay for the renewal or lose my reservation.



You have to be a member at the time you travel on an exchange. Can you also clarify what happened with II?


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## JudyS (Jan 6, 2009)

Snorkey said:


> Got exchanged into Disney with my small STUDIO.  Total cost is below $400 including MF and exchange fee.
> I was surprised to see spring break Disney 1bedroom and studio in RCI.
> 
> I guess I will pay for $95 at check in?


Snorkey, did you use *RCI* or *II *to exchange into Disney???  Also, what studio do you own? 

I think the only Spring break Disney units in RCI right now are rentals, not trades. 

As for the $95 Disney resort fee, yes, you pay the $95 to the resort.  (It goes on your bill -- you can pay at check-in or give a credit card and they will charge you later.)


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## Mimi (Jan 8, 2009)

We are members of II and RCI. Still, we strongly prefer to do business with Trading Places, which has FREE membership, lower trading fees and superior customer service! We enjoy taking vacations to Hawaii, California, and Vegas and we are always satisfied with TPI and their competent reps.


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## Snorkey (Jan 12, 2009)

JudyS said:


> Snorkey, did you use *RCI* or *II *to exchange into Disney???  Also, what studio do you own?
> 
> I think the only Spring break Disney units in RCI right now are rentals, not trades.
> 
> As for the $95 Disney resort fee, yes, you pay the $95 to the resort.  (It goes on your bill -- you can pay at check-in or give a credit card and they will charge you later.)



Sorry that I can't give you too much info.  I did that once and I got burned.
Exchanging, I learned it the hard way and did not receive much help from the forum.  I know there are many tuggers who know alot but they do not want to share/reveal for their gain and I think I should keep quiet.  I read a lot but I learned from spending much of unneccessary expenses to learn.
One thing for sure, I think II customer service could be better and they probably received many complaints and maybe that caused the move to RCI.
I don't think RCI is any better.

I think DVC should exchange with TRADINGPLACES.  I like exchanging with TRADINGPLACES.  That would be totally awesome!


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jan 12, 2009)

Snorkey said:


> Sorry that I can't give you too much info.  I did that once and I got burned.
> Exchanging, I learned it the hard way and did not receive much help from the forum.  I know there are many tuggers who know alot but they do not want to share/reveal for their gain and I think I should keep quiet.  I read a lot but I learned from spending much of unneccessary expenses to learn.
> One thing for sure, I think II customer service could be better and they probably received many complaints and maybe that caused the move to RCI.
> I don't think RCI is any better.
> ...


  Huh...  I have to agree with JudyS.  I couldn't understand what your problem was in your original post.  I think, people need clarification.  Otherwise, I don't think it is fair to complain about an exchange company if you don't give details.  And, by details you don't have to give away important information like names but your post was just unclear.


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## FlyerBobcat (Jan 12, 2009)

Snorkey said:


> Sorry that I can't give you too much info.  I did that once and I got burned.
> Exchanging, I learned it the hard way and did not receive much help from the forum....



Ditto ciscogizmo1...

I say don't post and complain, then say you can't give info.  The postings and information sounded fishy all the way through, IMO.


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## ecwinch (Jan 12, 2009)

Snorkey said:


> I know there are many tuggers who know alot but they do not want to share/reveal for their gain and I think I should keep quiet.  I read a lot but I learned from spending much of unneccessary expenses to learn.



Not sure we have been on the same version of TUG. My experience has been the complete opposite. I have saved tens of thousands of dollars on TUG. 


Agree with the other posters, something fails the smell test.


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## Snorkey (Jan 12, 2009)

I thought I explained my complaint but here it goes again....

I called them about exchanges and it seems like they don't care about their customers as much as I thought.
First complaint was if you get a request in, they will switch you to different units although they know which units are available. They try to give you nicer unit in paper confirmation so you will keep that week. Yes, some resorts II do not have control over but with some do, they switch them to attract more trades.
Second, they do not allow switching to different resorts even within 24 hours period of time. I was put on hold for long time so I called later that night and they said it's been more than 24 hours although it was only 22 hours since they made exchanges. It's best to instant exchange than to put on search request. They WILL NOT make changes for you, period!

I also mentioned about canceling and they are saying if you have reservation in 2010 December (eg), you have to pay membership fee until 2010 December or lose your reservation.  Why do we need to pay until we travel, we should pay until we make reservation and not pay any more if we decide not to continue to exchange.  Or at least let it run out and not renew.

I said I don't want to say too much about my exchanges for Disney.  About my complaint, I can explain that.  what else do you want to know?


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## Snorkey (Jan 12, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> Not sure we have been on the same version of TUG. My experience has been the complete opposite. I have saved tens of thousands of dollars on TUG.
> 
> 
> Agree with the other posters, something fails the smell test.



What was your first exchange?  Did you perfected your exchange system right after you read TUG?
I am saying I am where I am right now after experience, not by just reading.


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## Snorkey (Jan 12, 2009)

flyerbobcat said:


> Ditto ciscogizmo1...
> 
> I say don't post and complain, then say you can't give info.  The postings and information sounded fishy all the way through, IMO.



Did you read the first post?


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## gmarine (Jan 12, 2009)

Snorkey said:


> I thought I explained my complaint but here it goes again....
> 
> I called them about exchanges and it seems like they don't care about their customers as much as I thought.
> First complaint was if you get a request in, they will switch you to different units although they know which units are available. They try to give you nicer unit in paper confirmation so you will keep that week. Yes, some resorts II do not have control over but with some do, they switch them to attract more trades.
> ...



Regarding resort assignment, II does not have control over unit assignment at ANY resort. Every resort maintains complete control over unit assignment. For that reason every II confirmation states that the unit may be different than the one on your confirmation.

If you called to change or cancel your confirmation within 24 hours from the EXACT time that you made it, you should have been allowed. Not 24 hours from the time you received your email confirmation but from the time you made the exchange online or over the phone. This has been well documented on TUG and is listed in the II Terms and Conditions. I make and cancel exchanges several times every year.

Ongoing searches are always better than instant exchanges. When you make an instant exchange you are seeing the available left overs after ongoing requests are fullfilled.

You need to have an active membership at the time you travel for several reasons. If you decide to cancel your exchange you will receive a Cancellation Replacement week which goes into your account. Same goes for a problem with the resort becoming uninhabitable due to a natural disaster,fire etc. If at some point you want to purchase a Guest Certificate you need to be a member. RCI operates the same way. You must be a member and RCI also has no control over unit assignment.

II does do things wrong, as does RCI. However, and dont take offense to this, but your compaints seem to be more a product of you not understanding the way II membership works rather than II doing something wrong. The II Terms and Conditions are long and detailed but it is worth it to read them and understand the exchange process.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Jan 12, 2009)

Snorkey said:


> Did you read the first post?


  I did but I still didn't understand.  Now, I'm getting a better understanding.  

II has no control over the unit assigned to you at check-in.  For example, if you traded into Marriott, the person may have given up an oceanfront unit but you will be assigned a garden unit.  Marriott has a pecking order and owners always get the best units.  Just kinda how it works.  I believe many resorts follow this philosophy. 

I know when I do searches in II it doesn't tell me what unit # is available.  I don't know by doing an online search that the unit I'm looking at is oceanfront.  I'm not sure how you have this information prior to the confirmation.

I don't have any experience with cancelling a confirmation as I've never had to do it.

I have made a lot of exchanges.  If you click the link in my signature you can see all the exchanges I've made over the last 6 years.  I travel exclusively during school holidays:  Summer, Thanksgiving & Christmas.  So, I know how difficult it can be to get a trade but so far (knock) on wood I've gotten them all.

Personally, I think you need to give yourself some time.  You aren't going to learn things overnight.  It is gonna take a few trades before you really feel comfortable with the whole processs.  It is like learning to drive for the very first time.


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## AwayWeGo (Jan 13, 2009)

*It's A Matter Of Proportion.*




gmarine said:


> RCI has many more complaints on TUG than II has.


RCI is lots bigger than I-I. 

If both timeshare exchange companies have the same percentage of complaining members -- or even if RCI has a lower percentage -- we'll still be apt to see many more complaints about RCI than about I-I. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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