# 2008 Maintenance Fees (MERGED THREADS)



## sage (Oct 19, 2007)

I've read some thread saying that some owners have received their statements for next years maintenance fees.
When do they officially get released?
Has anyone got theirs yet for Grand Chateau? If so, what are they. We own a 3 br & are keen to get the fees paid while our dollar is strong against the greenback.

Thanks


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## DaveNV (Oct 19, 2007)

Why wait?  Can't you prepay what you paid last year, then make up any difference when the bill comes out?  I'd bet your resort would let you do that.

Dave


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## sage (Oct 19, 2007)

Believe me, we've tried. 
They just don't want to know about it!
They told us they would refund the money if we paid it up front. You'd think they'd be glad to get the fees in advance. It defies all logic to me.


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## nspils (Oct 19, 2007)

Why not "buy" dollars, right now? Open a savings account in a US bank, deposit your dollars to be converted to US dollars, then use the money on deposit to pay the MF.


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## sage (Oct 19, 2007)

Already done that - converted our currency. Just want to pay to get it out of the way.


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## Dave M (Oct 19, 2007)

Most Marriott MF bills have historically been sent out in late November or early December.


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## sage (Oct 19, 2007)

Dave,
Is that snail mail or on their website?
Gillian


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## Dave M (Oct 19, 2007)

snail mail. For some resorts, at least based on what happened last year, that mailing will be the first formal info available about next year's fees.


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## sage (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks for the info everyone.


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## JimIg23 (Oct 22, 2007)

My NCV 2008 MF bill is online today.  $401.20 for an EOY.


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## smith_4 (Oct 22, 2007)

I am a new time share owner (we close next month).  Just curious...  Do maintenance fees go up each year?  Or do they remain fairly stable?


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## Dave M (Oct 22, 2007)

Yes, just like the other things you pay for in life, you can expect fees to go up regularly. That's because the costs your resort incurs (e.g. for salaries, utilities, insurance and maintenance) all go up. 

From 2001 through 2006, Marriott annual fees went up an average of just under 4% per year. There was a spike this year (2007 fees), but there is some preliminary evidence that the overall increase for 2008 may be closer to that historical 4%, although there will almost certainly be wide variances from resort to resort.


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## bobbornstein (Oct 23, 2007)

*Aruba Surf Club Maintenance Fee is online now*

Aruba Surf Club - 2 Bedroom - $1,059


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## winger (Oct 23, 2007)

MMC will be expected to send theirs mid Nov.  I hope it goes back to 4% of less. I got hit with a wholloping 15% on my non-Marriott.


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## m61376 (Oct 23, 2007)

bobbornstein said:


> Aruba Surf Club - 2 Bedroom - $1,059



~ a 7% increase- not as good as the 4%, but less than last year's increases!


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## tompk (Oct 25, 2007)

*Manor Club maint fee*

$845 for 2008, so much for the best value in the MVCI portfolio.


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## rsackett (Oct 25, 2007)

tompk said:


> $845 for 2008, so much for the best value in the MVCI portfolio.




Holy $#%^ two BIG increases in a row!


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## Docklander (Oct 25, 2007)

bobbornstein said:


> Aruba Surf Club - 2 Bedroom - $1,059



For some reason mine is $1,093.50....possibly because my address is not in the US (another great way to rip people off!)

Aruba Ocean - $1,110 btw


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## potchak (Oct 25, 2007)

Any idea why Manonr Club would jump almost $100 YTY? This is ridiculous.

It is probably all the bad ovens they just bought.


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## winger (Oct 25, 2007)

tompk said:


> $845 for 2008, so much for the best value in the MVCI portfolio.


It must be the 'winger touch'. My non-Marriott was cruising along past 9 yrs or so at very low single digit increases, then this year jacks up over 15%. Now Manor jack ups 18.5% ($845/$713) ?  And the increase for the 2007 MF was pretty high also (I forget the exact #'s as I just bought but it seemed like double digit also)!

I am going to send my MMC and MVCI Corp sales rep a very dissatisfied email later today. And this is just when my MVCI Corp rep just left me a very tempting offer (from face only) yesterday of 755k+ MRP's on new purchases.


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## vacationlover2 (Oct 25, 2007)

When are the maintenance fees due?  UGH!   I own Surf Club and just bought Manor Club.  Almost 2K for me.

Thanks!


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## Dave M (Oct 25, 2007)

Marriott MFs usually have a due date in mid to late January.


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## winger (Oct 25, 2007)

Dave M said:


> Marriott MFs usually have a due date in mid to late January.


For MMC, confirmed that due date is Jan 15th, 2008


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## littlestar (Oct 25, 2007)

We received the proposed budget for Horizons Branson and it went up to $694.43 from $607.33 last year. It looks like the developer subsidy is not near as much as it was. The developer subsidy is quite a bit less from last year and that accounts for most of the increase if I'm reading this proposal correctly. The resort actually held their costs to operate in check quite nicely, though.


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## rsackett (Oct 25, 2007)

winger said:


> It must be the 'winger touch'. My non-Marriott was cruising along past 9 yrs or so at very low single digit increases, then this year jacks up over 15%. Now Manor jack ups 18.5% ($845/$713) ?  And the increase for the 2007 MF was pretty high also (I forget the exact #'s as I just bought but it seemed like double digit also)!




Manor Club % increases over the last few years:  2.74%, 3.67%, 0.00%, 4.32%, 4.94%, 11.93%, and now 18.51%.

I hope the trend will not continue!  I will be priced out of Manor Club.

Ray


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## winger (Oct 25, 2007)

I wonder how the California and Hawaii resorts are fairing?  Report just came out last night Lake Tahoe real estate went up 30% in the past quarter - I think #  was referring to higher-end homes. Maybe cost of living goes up so it affect cost of MF at Timber Lodge ?


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## ann824 (Oct 25, 2007)

Grande Vista is only going up $28.  We just bought a Manor Club.  I wish we had known it was going to go up that much.  I would love to know why it has gone up so much in the last two years.


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## potchak (Oct 26, 2007)

What was the reserve fee for Manor Club last year? I am trying to figure out why the huge jump in fees. I am a little afraid of what my Waiohai and Timberlodge are going to do if my cheapest timeshare went through the roof!

I actually found last years statement and it looks like the reserve fee last year was $66.86 and this year is $238!!! I guess I know where our increase is going. The actual expenses on the resort went down from 589.20 to $547.26, but the reserve is what is doing it. Property taxes only increased by about $3 so it is all in the reserve. I guess they increased the reserve heavily because of the problems with the appliances.


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## Big Matt (Oct 26, 2007)

Or because they want to:

1) put granite in all the units
2) refurbish the Sequel side
3) do something to improve the outdoor pool area

The reserve fee is about 12k per unit when you count all of the unit/months.

That's quite a lot.

I'd rather do it this way than to wait for a few years and then pay a bunch all at once.




potchak said:


> I guess they increased the reserve heavily because of the problems with the appliances.


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## mas (Oct 26, 2007)

Looks like BeachPlace went up only 2.2%, of course when you're paying over $1000 ($1035.07) a $22 increase is lost in the noise.  It will be interesting to see what happens next year after the big renovation is finished.


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## luvmypt (Oct 26, 2007)

Aruba Ocean Club 2 bedroom is $1110.00 and a 1 bedroom is $837.00.


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## thinze3 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Legends Edge*

I hope Legend's Edge will be held in check in the future years (after 2008) by the fact that the LEGENDS EDGE CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION includes the whole ownership condos and the timeshares. I could only imagine that the whole ownership condos would require slightly less maintenence.


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## maggie mae (Oct 26, 2007)

Big Matt said:


> Or because they want to:
> 
> 1) put granite in all the units
> 2) refurbish the Sequel side
> ...



Matt,

Seems to me like some past boards at MMC have not done their job very well as reserve fees should be built up over time with smaller increments than the jump we are seeing this year. An increase of over 18% coming off of a previous year's increase of nearly 12% is unacceptable in my opinion especially if most of the increase is to replenish the reserve fund.  

Maggie Mae


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## pwrshift (Oct 26, 2007)

For some time now we have all raved about what a good deal MMC was with MF and the trade value of exchanging for points.  I wonder if that was picked up by Marriott as too good a deal and hit owners harder than should be necessary.

I am surprised at Manor Club for this increase and do want to investigate further with the GM.  He's somewhat new to MMC and the increases have just started since he came to town a couple of years back.  And the HOA usually is so communicative with owners -- this increase, to my knowledged, wasn't even hinted at in any correspondence from the MMC HOA.

I agree that I want a nice feeling about ownership but some of the reports of wear and tear over the last year on TUG and now this big increase leads me to think they economized in the past and we loved their management style, but now we have to pay for the games they've played.

Brian




rsackett said:


> Manor Club % increases over the last few years: 2.74%, 3.67%, 0.00%, 4.32%, 4.94%, 11.93%, and now 18.51%.
> 
> I hope the trend will not continue! I will be priced out of Manor Club.
> 
> Ray


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## vacationlover2 (Oct 26, 2007)

If anyone finds anything out about the MMC, MSE fees being so high, could you please post it here?

Thanks!


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## maggie mae (Oct 26, 2007)

pwrshift said:


> For some time now we have all raved about what a good deal MMC was with MF and the trade value of exchanging for points.  I wonder if that was picked up by Marriott as too good a deal and hit owners harder than should be necessary.
> 
> I am surprised at Manor Club for this increase and do want to investigate further with the GM.  He's somewhat new to MMC and the increases have just started since he came to town a couple of years back.  And the HOA usually is so communicative with owners -- this increase, to my knowledged, wasn't even hinted at in any correspondence from the MMC HOA.
> 
> ...



Brian,

I hope you have better luck with him than I had. 

You may recall a few months ago there were some negative postings on this site regarding the conditions of the units, the gazebo, etc. I attempted to communicate with the GM to express my concern, with all due respect and politeness, and received what I considered to be a very condescending reply as if he couldn't be bothered by an owner. Needless to say I'm not impressed with him at all and hope his tenure at MMC will be brief.

Maggie Mae


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## winger (Oct 26, 2007)

who the GM work for? Is he paid my Marriott or by HOA/hotel revenue?  Who has rights to replace him?


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

rsackett said:


> Manor Club % increases over the last few years:  2.74%, 3.67%, 0.00%, 4.32%, 4.94%, 11.93%, and now 18.51%.
> 
> I hope the trend will not continue!  I will be priced out of Manor Club.
> 
> Ray



Likewise!!  Any recourse for us?


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## Corky (Oct 26, 2007)

rsackett said:


> Manor Club % increases over the last few years:  2.74%, 3.67%, 0.00%, 4.32%, 4.94%, 11.93%, and now 18.51%.
> 
> I hope the trend will not continue!  I will be priced out of Manor Club.
> 
> Ray



I was hoping the increase in Manor Club's MF was the trick part of Trick or Treat.


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## Big Matt (Oct 27, 2007)

GM works for Marriott.  Marriott determines whether the GM comes or goes.

HOA determines who runs the resort (right now Marriott).  HOA pays Marriott to run the resort.

I wouldn't want Manor Club to be run by another resort chain.



winger said:


> who the GM work for? Is he paid my Marriott or by HOA/hotel revenue?  Who has rights to replace him?


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## Big Matt (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm pretty sure not increasing the reserve fund would be worse in the long run though.

Also, I don't think we know exactly what the increased reserve is for.  If it's for things that will be accomplished in 2008, I'd like to know what they are.

If the increase is to pay for things from prior years like the spa, business center, wireless internet, new bedding, etc. then I agree that it's been mismanaged.  In essence we used our monies inappropriately even if we received value.



maggie mae said:


> Matt,
> 
> An increase of over 18% coming off of a previous year's increase of nearly 12% is unacceptable in my opinion especially if most of the increase is to replenish the reserve fund.
> 
> Maggie Mae


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## winger (Oct 27, 2007)

Big Matt said:


> ..
> Also, I don't think we know exactly what the increased reserve is for. ...


I think won't we know soon enough when the letter comes out to our homes? I think it breaks are for and possibly (it better) and explaination what the reserve increase are for.


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## Big Matt (Oct 28, 2007)

Winger,
I sure hope so.  They usually discuss how the money is being allocated, but maybe not in detail.  

On another note...I'm here at MSE in a 1BR for two days and the unit is very, very nice.  It's clear to me that they've done some things in this building and unit since last year.  The carpets are new in both the room and the building hall ways.  The bar stools are now leather (pleather?) and look nice.  There's a few other nice touches that I don't remember.  

I'm coming back next week to stay in the original section next week.  I'll see if I can talk to the GM when I'm here.


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## ira g (Nov 1, 2007)

*2008 Maintenance Fee*

Does anyone know what the MF is for Horizon at Branson for a 2 BR lockoff silver season for 2008? Does this amount include real estate taxes?


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## Dave M (Nov 1, 2007)

The fees when announced - probably within the next two weeks or so - will include property taxes. 

All Branson weeks pay the same fees. My guess is that the fees will be in the $645 to $655 range.


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## ml855 (Nov 2, 2007)

*2008 Manor Club MF*

We just received our 2008 MF for Manor Club.

      Total fees                 $845.00

      Operating fees            547.26
      Replacement Reserve   238.00
      Property tax                59.74

Is the replacement reserve a one time fee?  I hope so, or we'll have to start selling some of our TS, won't be able to keep up with the MFs.


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## dougp26364 (Nov 2, 2007)

ml855 said:


> We just received our 2008 MF for Manor Club.
> 
> Total fees                 $845.00
> 
> ...



The replacement reserve is an ongoing fee. It's a reserve to take care of major expenses, both expected and unexpected. It's what keeps your resort looking as good as it does. Otherwise the resort declines and you get hit with a one time special assessment.

An example would be like what's happened this past year at Polo Towers. The HOA at PT's only puts $45 into it's reserve fund. Thus when the decor of the units became outdated, they had to ask the owners for over $1,000 additional per unit to reonvate them. Personally I'd rather pay a little each year into the replacemnt reserve than get hit between the eyes with a large SA. 

$845 is still a bargain in the Marriott system. Ocean Pointe's projected MF's are from $1,065 to $1,461 depending on the size unit and the season. I haven't seen the projections for Grand Chateau yet but I'm assuming they're going to be in that range as well.


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## Sandra (Nov 2, 2007)

*Custom  House*

Just got our CH 2008 bill - 

Operating fee:  $830.52
Replacement reserve:  $104.48

Total:  $945.00


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## potchak (Nov 2, 2007)

EOY Waiohai
Interval  	Description  	Due Date  	Amount Due  	 

  	WI*7202*18 	2008 Operating Fee 	2008-01-15 	$560.95 	 
  	WI*7202*18 	2008 Reserve Fee 	2008-01-15 	$58.02 	 
  	WI*7202*18 	2008 Property Tax Fee 	2008-01-15 	$74.89 	 

  	Total amount 	  	  	$693.86


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## bbibb (Nov 2, 2007)

Kauai Marriott (2BR)

2008 Operating Fee             $1238.33   
2008 Reserve Fee                 $270.12   
2008 Special Assessment Fee $216.08   
2008 Property Tax Fee          $108.04 

Total                                $1832.57

Moutain Side (Silver 2BR)

2008 Operating Fee      $611.78   
2008 Reserve Fee        $185.00   
2008 Property Tax Fee  $59.25   

Total                        $856.03


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## winger (Nov 2, 2007)

ml855 said:


> We just received our 2008 MF for Manor Club.
> 
> Total fees                 $845.00
> 
> ...


I just received mine. How nice NOT to even have a written explanation of the increase and considerations that went behind it, just the detailed itemized listing of all costs for upcoming year.


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## winger (Nov 2, 2007)

bbibb said:


> Kauai Marriott (2BR)
> 
> 2008 Operating Fee             $1238.33
> 2008 Reserve Fee                 $270.12
> ...


 All I can say is WOW ! And it's gonna hit $2000+ in one or two more years : (


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## AMJ (Nov 2, 2007)

Harbour Point 


2008 Operating Fee       $543.96   
2008 Reserve Fee          $115.00 (Surcharge)
2008 Reserve Fee          $234.68   
2008 Property Tax Fee   $49.16   

           Total amount     $942.80 

Joyce


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## gmarine (Nov 3, 2007)

The increase at MMC is ridiculous. Around a 350% increase in the amount of the Replacement Reserve fee? And with no explanation. 

If this is actually what is needed then there has been serious mismanagement in the past.

I wouldnt be surprised to see a large increase in units put up for sale. And I wont be surprised if resale values trend downward after trending upward the last year or so.

I'm gonna waste my time by calling managment for an explanation and will post what answer I get.


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## LAX Mom (Nov 3, 2007)

Marriott Summit Watch 2008

Replacement Reserve            220.00
Property Tax                         79.82
Operating Fee                      683.12

Total                                  982.94


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## mjkaplan (Nov 3, 2007)

*Shadow Ridge for 2008*

Shadow Ridge  

  Interval Description Due Date Amount Due   

  2008 Operating Fee   $746.36   
  2008 Reserve Fee     $134.56   

  Total amount     $880.92 

last year was   $828.59


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## winger (Nov 3, 2007)

gmarine said:


> I'm gonna waste my time by calling managment for an explanation and will post what answer I get.


tell me what # I can call...I will waste my time as well next week. u may email me (vs pm'ing) if u wish


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## tarob42 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Maintenance Fees/MMC*

Please post a phone number or email address so we can all contact management.  I think the increase is ridiculous. We have owned at the Manor Club for about 4 years and when we first purchased it the fees were under $600.


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## Dave M (Nov 3, 2007)

Log on to your account at www.vacationclub.com. All of the contact info - including resort contact info - is on the site.

However, simply complaining that fees are too high will get nowhere, especially since owners like us who are on the Board of Directors are involved in setting those fees. Instead, someone here who visits the resort should attend an owners' seminar (held weekly) and ask questions about the budget to understand the reasons for the increase. Then that person should report here for all to have the same info. Only then can a reasonably intelligent complaint be made - complaining about specific out-of-control aspects of the budget, if there are any.

The person most familiar with the budget is the General Manager. I have had great success at each of my Marriotts contacting the GM in person or by phone and discussing budget details and other areas of concern, sometimes following up on specific issues aired in this forum.


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## mpizza (Nov 4, 2007)

*Fairway Villas at Seaview*

2008 Maintenance Fees

Operating Fee          $649.65
Replacement Reserve  155.00
Property Tax Fee         69.28

Total                      $873.93

6.1% increase or $50.25

Interesting, upon analyzing the numbers, the actual Operating and Reserve Fee increased by 11.8% or $84.97, but were offset by a decrease in property taxes by 33.4% or $34.72 (in New Jersey?). 

The bulk of the increase seems to be the Reserve Fee up 34.8% or $40.00.  It's my opinion that with experience Marriott has learned the preliminary Reserve Fee wasn't sufficient to maintain their resorts to Marriott standards.  

Maria


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## Icarus (Nov 5, 2007)

*Kbc 1br 2008*

KBC 1BR, Due date 1/15/2008

2008 Operating Fee: $1125.75
2008 Reserve Fee: $245.56
2008 Special Assessment Fee: $196.44**
2008 Property Tax Fee: $98.22

Total amount: $1665.97

** Installment 3 or 3. (final installment of the KBC 3-part SA).

Excluding the SAs, the total fee increase is approximately $100. 2007 had installment 2 of 3 plus an additional SA for extraordinary repair costs of the storm drain damage. Thus, the total amount due is less than the total amount due in 2007.

-David


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## Icarus (Nov 5, 2007)

winger said:


> All I can say is WOW ! And it's gonna hit $2000+ in one or two more years : (



We already paid over 2k last year, but that included 2 SAs. Without the SAs, they still have several years to go to get there.

Remember, deduct the SAs to arrive at the actual total MFs.

-David


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## aka Julie (Nov 6, 2007)

*Barony Beach*

Haven't received statement in the mail, but checked on-line today and the info is finally available:

2008 Operating Fee:  $645.00 (+$38.26 over 2007)
2008 Reserve Fee:  $165.00 (+ $10 over 2007)
2008 Property Tax Fee:  $85.00 (+$2 over 2007)

Total:  $895.00 (increase of $50.26 or 5.9%)


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## turkel (Nov 8, 2007)

mjkaplan said:


> Shadow Ridge
> 
> Interval Description Due Date Amount Due
> 
> ...



Add to that the $150.74 in property taxes and you get $1031.66.  Riverside county must love these timeshares.  Take the $150 X 52 =$7800 per unit at a tax rate of 1.1% Riverside county is totally gouging timeshare owners.  I don't think paying property taxes separately is good for timeshare owners.

Pam


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## Lydlady (Nov 8, 2007)

turkel said:


> Add to that the $150.74 in property taxes and you get $1031.66.  Riverside county must love these timeshares.  Take the $150 X 52 =$7800 per unit at a tax rate of 1.1% Riverside county is totally gouging timeshare owners.  I don't think paying property taxes separately is good for timeshare owners.
> 
> Pam



UGH, you would have to remind me.  I had totally forgotten about that.


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## AMJ (Nov 8, 2007)

Cypress Harbour 
Sport Season

2008 Operating Fee $529.40
2008 Reserve Fee $195.00  
2008 Property Tax Fee $113.23 

Total amount $837.63 

Joyce


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## sage (Nov 9, 2007)

*Grand Chateau*

3 bedroom lockoff - every year

International Service fee                       $34.50
Operating fee                                    $980.82
Reserve fee                                      $214.88
Property tax fee                                  $70.04

TOTAL                                            $1300.24


What ever is the International service fee for?
Is it for postage because they sure don't send us much - probably 2-3 letters a year and that definitely won't cost $34.50 in postage


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## abouna (Nov 9, 2007)

Maui Ocean Club just in 

$1396.00 one bedroom

Only up about $60.00 from last year. I was scared after seeing the Kauai jump!


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## Docklander (Nov 10, 2007)

Maui Sequel (Lahania Tower) 2 Bed

  2008 Operating Fee             $1469.41   
  2008 Reserve Fee                 $147.07   
  2008 Property Tax Fee            $99.06


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## MOXJO7282 (Nov 10, 2007)

Maui Ocean Club (Old Tower) 2 Bed OV

2008 Operating Fee $1311.53 
2008 Reserve Fee $131.26 
2008 Property Tax Fee $88.42


Total $1531.21

up $61.21
4% increase





Regards.
Joe


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## Docklander (Nov 10, 2007)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Maui Ocean Club (Old Tower) 2 Bed OV
> 
> 2008 Operating Fee $1311.53
> 2008 Reserve Fee $131.26
> ...



I don't understand how the newer units at Maui Ocean club can possibly require a higher reserve fee than the older ones (and for that matter cost more to operate). Surely the older ones will need more doing to them and sooner....any ideas how Marriott (or the HOA) calculate these?


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## sdtugger (Nov 10, 2007)

Docklander said:


> I don't understand how the newer units at Maui Ocean club can possibly require a higher reserve fee than the older ones (and for that matter cost more to operate). Surely the older ones will need more doing to them and sooner....any ideas how Marriott (or the HOA) calculate these?



The MF for the new towers includes the base MF plus a percentage (my memory is something like 20-25%).  So, it looks like the new towers will always have a higher MF.  There are appliances in the new units that could account for some of that.  But, I don't know how much.


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## Dave M (Nov 10, 2007)

If planned correctly, the reserve fee should be set at a level so that nominal increases each year to that portion of the total fee will be enough to pay for all capital items as the need arises - forever. Thus, in theory, rising inflation would mean that the reserve fees for the two separate MOC sections would now be identical. The fact that it's higher suggests that the new section is a bit fancier and/or has more items (bigger floorplans?) than the old that will need replacing.


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## travelinmom (Nov 10, 2007)

*Another shocked MMC owner*

I was shocked when I opened my MF bill for Manor Club Sequel.  If there had been something to explain it, the shock may have been reduced.  I think the board owes us an explanation.  My Ocean Watch fees are only slightly higher.  I expect $800+ at a beach resort where there is more wear and tear, not at a golf resort.  Is there any way we can send a group letter to the board?

Amy


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## cp73 (Nov 11, 2007)

bbibb said:


> Kauai Marriott (2BR)
> 
> 2008 Operating Fee             $1238.33
> 2008 Reserve Fee                 $270.12
> ...



That equates to $261.80 per night. It kinds of makes you start wondering if owning a timeshare is worth it. All the hassles of reserving the week you want, then praying you get the view you want. That doesn't include the lost opportunity costs from your investment.


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## normab (Nov 11, 2007)

St Kitts
 KT*9107*30 2008 Operating Fee  2008-01-20 $1015.13   
  KT*9107*30 2008 Reserve Fee  2008-01-20 $126.93 
Property taxes coming separately...
 Total 1142.06

Waiohai
WI*2201*25 2008 Operating Fee  2008-01-15 $1121.90   
  WI*2201*25 2008 Reserve Fee  2008-01-15 $116.04   
  WI*2201*25 2008 Prop Tax Fee  2008-01-15 $149.78  
  Total 1387.72

Ouch--Waiohai took a jump.  Did not get the official bill yet, only the St Kitts came hard copy so far.  I need a vacation to get over these fees.  Oh yeah, that's what they're for. :rofl:


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## Jaybee (Nov 11, 2007)

*Desert Springs II*

$798.00 for 2008


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## cp73 (Nov 11, 2007)

*Desert Springs Villas I*

$926.91 for the timeshare
$197.62 to the Co of Riverside for property taxs

$1124.53 total = $160.65 per night


Now if you factor in the loss of earnings from the investment = $8,500@ 9% =
$765

Add this to the maintenace fees = $1889.53/7= $269.94 per night. Is it worth that? Probably so. If I didn't own this timeshare would I go stay there for a week every year? No.


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## AMJ (Nov 13, 2007)

Ocean Watch platinum

2008 Operating Fee        $669.03   
2008 Reserve Fee          $124.00   
2008 Property Tax Fee    $50.97   

Total amount     $844.00

Joyce


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## jimf41 (Nov 14, 2007)

*Frenchman's Cove 2bdrm*

2007 Operating Fee          $1445.15
2007 Reserve Fee            $ 131.08
2007 total                      $1576.23
2007 developer subsidy   -$710.13
2007 net                        $866.10

2008 Operating Fee          $1232.45
2008 Reserve Fee            $ 149.57
2008 total                      $1386.00
2008 developer subsidy   -$388.81
2008 net                        $993.21

2008 3bdrm net  $1135.58

I'm a happy camper!

Jim Freeman


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## GaryDouglas (Nov 14, 2007)

Per Sage:



> 3 bedroom lockoff - every year
> 
> International Service fee $34.50
> Operating fee $980.82
> ...


 
I have no idea what the International Fee is, but my MF does not include it ($1,265.74).


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## Dave M (Nov 14, 2007)

The international fee is described at the bottom of every GC invoice. It's not new, but it applies only to owners residing in countries other than the U.S. and Canada. The charge, as explained, is for extra expense (postage, phone, faxing, translation, etc.) that Marriott expects to incur in serving international owners. Obviously the expense will vary by owner, but the charge to all non-U.S. owners is the same.


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## GaryDouglas (Nov 15, 2007)

Ah yes, it was on the "2008 Estimated Operating Budget" page.

Noticed that it also covers translation costs.  Particulary important for Australia, England, and most of Canada...


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## Docklander (Nov 15, 2007)

In this day of electronic communication there can surely be little or no need for Marriott to send out anything (on a yearly basis) by surface mail to overseas countries (let's face it, it's hardly the most efficient way to deliver info!). Combine that with the fact that I don't really need translation facilities and it leaves me thinking that this is just a clever(ish) way of Marriott making some extra $$$ knowing full well that no one will really challenge the validity (or indeed the need for) the charges.


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## Wonka (Nov 15, 2007)

*Marriott Harbor Pointe*

Marriott Harbor Pointe

$953...no longer a bargain


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## pumbug (Nov 15, 2007)

Shadowridge  Palm Desert
Operating  expense       $746.36
Reserve fee                   134.56
Riverside Cty Taxes        146.34

Total                          $1027.26

This equates to $146.75/day

Used to be better but the developer subsidy is gone now.  Growth in 5 years is from $643.77 (with dev sub) to $1027.26 (no dev sub) almost 60%.

Checking a  "Getaway " at Interval for the week we are going 11/24 to 12/1, you can get the 1 BR side for $395/week  and the lockoff for $290/week  total  $685/week    Alot less expensive than buying another  week...I'll tell them this when we take the tour to get our 10,000 points....


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## Dewnay (Nov 16, 2007)

*2008 Maintenance Fees for Ko Olina EOY*

Just received my statement:

Ko Olina Platinum EOY MV 2BR

2008 Property Tax Fee - $74.83
2008 Operating Fee - $555.69
2008 Replacement Reserve - $71.66

Total - $702.18


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## Dave M (Nov 16, 2007)

*Grande Ocean*
Operating Fee - $658.98
Reserve Fee - $205.98
Property Tax - $92.55

Total - $957.51

That's a very reasonable 4% increase from comparable numbers for 2007 and an overall 20% decrease from last year's total, which included a special assessment.


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## thickey (Nov 16, 2007)

littlestar said:


> We received the proposed budget for Horizons Branson and it went up to $694.43 from $607.33 last year. It looks like the developer subsidy is not near as much as it was. The developer subsidy is quite a bit less from last year and that accounts for most of the increase if I'm reading this proposal correctly. The resort actually held their costs to operate in check quite nicely, though.



What exactly is the developer subsidy?


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## Dave M (Nov 16, 2007)

The developer subsidy is the amount that Marriott contributes towards the budget in the early years of a resort's life until enough timeshare weeks have been sold so that the maintenance fees from those sold weeks fully support the operations of the resort.

Stated another way, suppose you buy the first timeshare week sold at a new resort. And suppose that's the only timeshare Marriott sells at that resort that year. Unless Marriott kicks in an amount to subsidize the operations,you'll have one heck of a high maintenance fee that first year!!!

You can see the amount of subsidy for any Marriott -where there is one - for 2007 by reviewing the historical maintenance fees chart, accessible from the FAQs for this Marriott forum.


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## skifast (Nov 17, 2007)

Maui Ocean Club

One Bedroom     $1391.99

Two Bedroom     $1531.21
  (Maui, Lanai, and Molokai Towers)

Two Bedroom     $1715.54
  (Lahaina and Napili)

Three Bedroom   $2058.62
  (Lahaina and Napili)

WOW


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## potchak (Nov 20, 2007)

Timberlodge 2bd EOY:
nterval  	Description  	Due Date  	Amount Due  	 

  	TL*6421*30 	2008 Operating Fee 	2008-01-15 	$370.01 	 
  	TL*6421*30 	2008 Reserve Fee 	2008-01-15 	$85.16 	 

  	Total amount 	  	  	$455.17 * 2 for EY = $910.34

Makes it an 8.8% increase over last year at $836.15 for EY


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## thinze3 (Nov 20, 2007)

7% increase (about normal)

From: $1297.22
To: $1387.72

The increase in the value of the TS is probably about enough to cover the MF. *IMO *





normab said:


> .....Ouch--Waiohai took a jump.  Did not get the official bill yet, only the St Kitts came hard copy so far.  I need a vacation to get over these fees.  Oh yeah, that's what they're for. :rofl:


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## thinze3 (Nov 20, 2007)

*Legends Edge at Bay Point*

From:  $846.64
To: $894.38


5.6% increase


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## thinze3 (Nov 20, 2007)

It appears that people were paying about $10K for platinum MMC units about six months back. Now they are being listed for as cheap as $9250. Good chance they'll sell in the $8K's.

Wonder if these fees have something to do with it?




pwrshift said:


> For some time now we have all raved about what a good deal MMC was with MF and the trade value of exchanging for points.  I wonder if that was picked up by Marriott as too good a deal and hit owners harder than should be necessary....
> Brian


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## Lawlar (Nov 20, 2007)

*An interesting observation (fighting words?)*

The maintenance fees do not make sense to me.

     I owned a nice three bedroom condo in a really nice part of Los Angeles (sold in 2005).  The maintenance fees for that condo today are $350 a month (that includes all water, property taxes, insurance, maintenance of common areas, including two pools and two Jacuzzis, a reserve for replacement and improvement of structures, insurance, accountants, etc., etc.).  That is $4,200 a year.

     Now, my one week in Maui costs me $1,715.00 for a unit that is considerably smaller than my Los Angeles condo.  Marriott gets that maintenance fee from, let’s say, 50 owners.  The yearly maintenance fee for one small “TS” is thus $85,750.00!  (50 X 1,715 = $85,750.00)

     Does it make any sense that a nice condo would have a yearly fee of $4,200 and a TS would have a yearly fee of $85,750?  I know it costs more to run a hotel-like operation (more personnel and it is furnished).  But these numbers really do not make any sense to me.

     There was an accounting firm in Los Angeles that specialized in analyzing maintenance fees landlords’ charged commercial tenants.  Those accountants were frequently able to demonstrate that the yearly fees were inflated and their analysis resulted in refunds.  The accountants were paid a percentage of the refunds obtained from the landlords.  Any accountants interested in looking at how Marriott calculates its maintenance fees?   A smart accountant might make a nice profit reviewing those numbers.


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## Dave M (Nov 21, 2007)

Yes, it makes sense that timeshare maintenance fees significantly exceed those of whole-ownership condos. There are a host of very costly services that the timeshare resort has that most condos don't. 

Some of those are for weekly (or more frequent) housekeeping, the reservations system, front desk salaries and recreation programs. With your condo, you are responsible for caring for the inside of your unit and for replacing and repairing furniture, appliances, carpeting, draperies, etc.  For a timeshare, your fees pay for that and much more. 

Another point is that owners just like you sit on the timeshare Board of Directors and review those annual budgets and approve them. They don't want to pay more than necessary any more than you do! 

One way to get an understanding of the differences and the reasons for those differences is to lay out side by side the budgets for your condo and your timeshare. Compare the differences and if some of the differences don't make sense to you, ask about them here - but please start a separate thread for it.


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## Icarus (Nov 21, 2007)

Also, in a condo, you pay your own utilities, your own insurance that covers you for liability and the inside of your unit, etc, etc.

In a condo, the association just maintains the outside of the units and the common areas. In a TS, the association owns and maintains everything.

-David


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## Lawlar (Nov 22, 2007)

*More Info Would Be Helpful*

Now I've figured it as many ways as I can, including adding all the expenses of running my old condo, and replacing all the furniture every two years and even hiring a full time employee, but no matter how I figure it none of it adds up to what the management fees are for a one week TS. 

     I won't pursue the concept in ths Thread.  But in my opinion it is a topic that deserves some analysis and discussion.


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## minoter (Nov 23, 2007)

*Reserve portion*

For those who feel they are happy about a maintenance fee that includes a low amount for the reserve portion, think again. The farther from a $200.00 reserve amount per week, the more at risk owners are for a future surprise. Owners should insist that current reserve studies be performed by qualified asset replacement specialists, and ask to see the study. Then, owners should insist that the HOA Board fund the reserve fund in sufficient amounts to replace assets when needed. The "other shoe will fall" if owners are not realistic about the costs of future refurbishments and asset replacements.


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## winger (Nov 23, 2007)

minoter said:


> For those who feel they are happy about a maintenance fee that includes a low amount for the reserve portion, think again. The farther from a $200.00 reserve amount per week, the more at risk owners are for a future surprise. Owners should insist that current reserve studies be performed by qualified asset replacement specialists, and ask to see the study. Then, owners should insist that the HOA Board fund the reserve fund in sufficient amounts to replace assets when needed. The "other shoe will fall" if owners are not realistic about the costs of future refurbishments and asset replacements.


where does one find "qualified asset replacement specialists" in area near his home resort?

Also, I too think it be in alls best interest if the books are opened more on what makes up the MFs. I mean, I just get a one sheet MMC breakdown, and after a two straight year 10+ % increase in MF, I thought owners deserved a little more explaination.  This is just one indication of the quality of our BOD's.


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## ondeadlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Large 1BR at Streamside Birch in Vail:

Weeks 1-14 --- $1,671.73
Weeks 15-22, 40-47 --- $557.24
Weeks 23-39, 48-50 --- $1,114.49
Weeks 51-52 --- $2,228.97

Large 2BR at Streamside Birch in Vail:

Weeks 1-14 --- $2,499.89
Weeks 15-22, 40-47 --- $833.30
Weeks 23-39, 48-50 --- $1,666.59
Weeks 51-52 --- $3,333.19

9.3 percent overall increase from last year.


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## Rhody51 (Nov 26, 2007)

*Grande Vista*

2 bedroom gold season
2008 operating fee  $528.00
2008 Replacement reserve  $167.52
2008 Property tax  98.77
2008 Reservation system charge  $26.00

Total  $821.19


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## SueDonJ (Dec 4, 2007)

*SurfWatch 3-BR, Hilton Head*

I checked online today:

2008 Operating Fee: $779.70 (+$4.92 over 2007)
2008 Reserve Fee: $161.16 (+ $7.38 over 2007)
2008 Property Tax Fee: $77.26 (-$.14 under 2007)
(No Developer Subsidy, was -$51.09 for 2007)

*Total: $1,018.12* (+$63.25 over 2007)


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## littlestar (Dec 10, 2007)

*Marriott Horizons Branson*

EOY 2 Bedroom Marriott Horizons Branson - $347.22


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## dioxide45 (Dec 10, 2007)

*Florida Club*



Rhody51 said:


> 2 bedroom gold season
> 2008 operating fee  $528.00
> 2008 Replacement reserve  $167.52
> 2008 Property tax  98.77
> ...



I have a MGV unit in the Florida Club (2BR, Gold):

2008 Operating fee  $528.90
2008 Replacement reserve  $167.52
2008 Property tax  98.77
2008 Florida Club Fee  $30.00

Total  $825.19

It should be noted that it only costs $4 more to be in the Florida Club, not $30 as most beleive.


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## chuck1955 (Dec 11, 2007)

*Frenchman's Cove 2008 Maint.*

2008 Operating Fee - $1,232.45
2008 Developer Subsidy - ($388.81)
2008 Replacement Reserve - $149.57

Total (2BR) - $993.21


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## minoter (Dec 11, 2007)

*BeachPlace Towers 2008 Fees*

Platinum:
Operating Fee: $592
Taxes: $200
Reserve Fee: $218
Total: $1,010
Reduction over 2007 fees: $2.88 (.3%)

Gold:
Operating Fee: $592
Taxes: $143
Reserve Fee: $218
Total: $953
Increase over 2007 fees: $14.14 (1.5%)


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## myip (Dec 13, 2007)

*Marriott Legend Edge 2 bedroom*

2008 Club Fee  	2008-01-15  	$30.00  	 
2008 Operating Fee 	2008-01-15 	$656.58 	 
2008 Reserve Fee 	2008-01-15 	$126.00 	 
2008 Property Tax Fee 	2008-01-15 	$81.79 	 

  	Total amount 	  	  	$894.37


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## Kazakie (Jan 2, 2008)

*Park City, UT*

Summit Watch (2br)
_2007  _2008
637.90 683.12 OPERATING FEE
225.00 220.00 RESERVE FEE
_80.80 _79.82 ESTIMATED PROPERTY TAXES
943.70 982.94 TOTAL MAINTENANCE + TAXES


MountainSide (2br)
_2007  _2008
568.87 611.78 OPERATING FEE
175.00 185.00 RESERVE FEE 
_75.41 _59.25 ESTIMATED PROPERTY TAXES
819.28 856.03 TOTAL MAINTENANCE + TAXES


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## Kazakie (Jan 2, 2008)

*Palm Desert, CA*

Desert Villas I (2br)
_2007 __2008
644.89 674.33 OPERATING FEE
_0.00 (16.62) RETURN OF SURPLUS
216.00 259.20 RESERVE FEE
860.89 916.91 TOTAL MAINTENANCE w/o TAXES

Desert Villas II (2br)
_2007 __2008
572.06 602.98 OPERATING FEE
(6.00) __0.00 RETURN OF SURPLUS
175.00 195.02 RESERVE FEE
741.06 798.00 TOTAL MAINTENANCE w/o TAXES

Shadow Ridge (2br)
_2007 __2008
712.59 746.36 OPERATING FEE
116.00 134.56 RESERVE FEE
828.59 880.92 TOTAL MAINTENANCE w/o TAXES

Shadow Ridge (1br)
_2008
435.69 OPERATING FEE
_89.71 RESERVE FEE
525.40 TOTAL MAINTENANCE w/o TAXES


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## Kazakie (Jan 2, 2008)

*Breckenridge, CO*

Mountain Valley Lodge
_2007 __2008 (1br/2ba)
761.49 796.60 OPERATING FEE
163.96 170.52 RESERVE FEE
_27.41 _31.07 ESTIMATED PROPERTY TAXES 
952.86  998.19 TOTAL MAINTENANCE + TAXES

Studio (2008)
637.27 OPERATING FEE
136.42 RESERVE FEE
_24.86 ESTIMATED PROPERTY TAXES 
798.55 TOTAL MAINTENANCE + TAXES


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## Starbucks (Feb 5, 2008)

*Phuket Beach Club*

All units are 2 BDR units.

22,378.22 THB Net Club Dues 2008 (=691.96 $) 
01.566.48 THB VAT 7% (=48.44 $)
23,944.70 THB Total Club Dues 2008 (=740.40 $)

Net Dues 2007 were 20,476.01 THB in 2007. So net dues climbed 9.29% or 1,902.21 THB.

FX-Rate as of 01/02/2008: 1 USD = 32,3404 THB
FX-Rate as of 01/02/2007: 1 USD = 35,4960 THB

Including the fx-rate change total club dues rose from 617.23 $ to 740.40 $. Still one of the cheapest resorts around but one has to travel to the Land of Smiles....   

starbucks


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