# Diamond Resorts and Point at Poipu question



## PamMo (Sep 26, 2011)

We own several weeks in Maui (Starwood), and are thinking about buying a week in Kauai. A brother owns at Point at Poipu, and we were interested in an annual oceanfront unit there, that just sold on eBay for $305 with NO closing costs. That seems unreal!?! I've read about water problems at the resort, and an upcoming special assessment, but are there difficulties with Diamond Resorts in reserving an oceanfront unit with a deeded oceanfront 1-52 week? Why such a low price? Thanks.


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## slip (Sep 26, 2011)

You may get more answers in the Hawaii forum.


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## wilma (Sep 27, 2011)

If you own an oceanfront week you can usually reserve one if you do it a year in advance. I looked at the ebay ad that recently sold for $305 but didn't see in the ad that it was an oceanfront week. Did you find out from the seller that it was oceanfront? If so that's a great price. People don't want to pay Poipu Point's high maintenance so the prices are pretty low.


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## aliikai2 (Sep 27, 2011)

*The Point is a nice resort*

It isn't a *wood resort quality and as such doesn't demand a high price. That week was a Float/Float which originally could reserve any suite at 365 days when it was the Embassy Resort. Since Diamond took over they have tried very hard to make it difficult for the Deeded weeks owners to reserve the Prime weeks in Prime units. I would read a lot more before I bought at the Point. We owned there from 1998 to 2001,
Greg



PamMo said:


> We own several weeks in Maui (Starwood), and are thinking about buying a week in Kauai. A brother owns at Point at Poipu, and we were interested in an annual oceanfront unit there, that just sold on eBay for $305 with NO closing costs. That seems unreal!?! I've read about water problems at the resort, and an upcoming special assessment, but are there difficulties with Diamond Resorts in reserving an oceanfront unit with a deeded oceanfront 1-52 week? Why such a low price? Thanks.


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## wilma (Sep 27, 2011)

aliikai2 said:


> Since Diamond took over they have tried very hard to make it difficult for the Deeded weeks owners to reserve the Prime weeks in Prime units.



I haven't had a problem. What's different is they don't confirm in advance which unit you reserved but I still get the unit I asked for upon check-in. In the past after faxing or emailing your top 3 requests you would get the confirmation letter showing which unit you got, but when I reserve at 360 days I still get my top choice.


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## Fisch (Sep 27, 2011)

aliikai2;1180289Since Diamond took over they have tried very hard to make it difficult for the Deeded weeks owners to reserve the Prime weeks in Prime units. I would read a lot more before I bought at the Point. We owned there from 1998 to 2001 said:
			
		

> I have had no issues getting whichever rooms I have requested, no issues whatsoever.  Always an oceanfront corner unit, whatever week we pick to go.  I am a deeded owner and won't be converting to Diamond Points.


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## PamMo (Sep 28, 2011)

Thank you, everyone. My understanding is the deeded week determines the view category you own at Point at Poipu - am I wrong? When my brother bought at Poipu and Ka'anapali, the resorts were under Embassy, and he bought and was guaranteed an oceanfront view. I see that Diamond has different point values for island/oceanview/oceanfront in Poipu and Ka'anapali, so how do resale owners (buying a deeded week from a longtime owner) fit into the Diamond program? Also, I wouldn't have to buy into the Diamond points program, right? 

Thank you again for your help, and sorry about so many questions!


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## Dollie (Sep 28, 2011)

PamMo said:


> I see that Diamond has different point values for island/oceanview/oceanfront in Poipu



The Point actually has four views:  garden, partial ocean view, ocean view and ocean front.  The deed usually states what view you have.  Originally, if you joined The Club, you were given points based on your view.  Things have changed now in The Club and with the introduction of the various DRI trusts.  If you are buying a deeded suite, make sure you ask for the exact wording in the dead so you know what you are getting.


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 28, 2011)

We own two oceanfront deeded weeks at the Point at Poipu and have NEVER had a problem getting reservations in OUR corner oceanfront unit.

Matter of fact we'll be there in Dec for two weeks.

Sterling


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 28, 2011)

aliikai2 said:


> It isn't a *wood resort quality and as such doesn't demand a high price. That week was a Float/Float which originally could reserve any suite at 365 days when it was the Embassy Resort. Since Diamond took over they have tried very hard to make it difficult for the Deeded weeks owners to reserve the Prime weeks in Prime units. I would read a lot more before I bought at the Point. We owned there from 1998 to 2001,
> Greg




Wood Quality?  Tiger Woods?

Sterling


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## Kauai Kid (Sep 28, 2011)

PamMo said:


> We own several weeks in Maui (Starwood), and are thinking about buying a week in Kauai. A brother owns at Point at Poipu, and we were interested in an annual oceanfront unit there, that just sold on eBay for $305 with NO closing costs. That seems unreal!?! I've read about water problems at the resort, and an upcoming special assessment, but are there difficulties with Diamond Resorts in reserving an oceanfront unit with a deeded oceanfront 1-52 week? Why such a low price? Thanks.




Low price reasons:

Lousy Economy
$1400 maintenance fee/wk
$1000 coach airfare from Texas
Owners getting older and unable to use weeks
Owners death

I got an estate sale two bedroom, ocean front, every year on Maui for $1 with NO CLOSING COSTS ON EBAY a few months ago.

Sterling


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## PamMo (Sep 28, 2011)

Kauai Kid said:


> I got an estate sale two bedroom, ocean front, every year on Maui for $1 with NO CLOSING COSTS ON EBAY a few months ago.
> Sterling



WOW!!!!!!!


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## cruisin (Oct 6, 2011)

They are getting a $5800 assessment on each owned unit, Free will not look good over the next 3 years, pick one up after the special assessments have been paid in the next 3-5 years, YIKES!!


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## RX8 (Oct 6, 2011)

I am surprised that this $5800 special assessment is being glossed over as much as it is.  I've read on a couple of other threads about people who recently purchased at this resort.  I am wondering if they were made aware of the assessments BEFORE they decided to buy?  Is this like a house in which certain things must be disclosed by the seller to a potential buyer?

Added this later - I went back and noticed most of the other threads were for earlier this year, likely before any assessments were announced.  My question remains though - if a seller is aware of a pending assessment, are they legally required to disclose it to the buyer or is it up to a potential buyer to research and find the answers themselves?


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## rjs857 (Oct 15, 2011)

*Assessment*

I just received my annual assessment for Diamond Resorts Hawaii collection today. What a shock! We bought in May 2009 and were never told about the water intrusion issue or a special assessment in the future. I am going to check into disclosure laws because they did NOT disclose any of this to us.


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## rjs857 (Oct 15, 2011)

RX8 said:


> I am surprised that this $5800 special assessment is being glossed over as much as it is.  I've read on a couple of other threads about people who recently purchased at this resort.  I am wondering if they were made aware of the assessments BEFORE they decided to buy?  Is this like a house in which certain things must be disclosed by the seller to a potential buyer?
> 
> Added this later - I went back and noticed most of the other threads were for earlier this year, likely before any assessments were announced.  My question remains though - if a seller is aware of a pending assessment, are they legally required to disclose it to the buyer or is it up to a potential buyer to research and find the answers themselves?



They were aware for several years that there was a water intrusion issue but they did not disclose to us. I hope they were legally required to disclose because then we will have a case against them. Otherwise, it's a lot of extra money to have to come up with and that sucks.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 15, 2011)

rjs857 said:


> They were aware for several years that there was a water intrusion issue but they did not disclose to us. I hope they were legally required to disclose because then we will have a case against them. Otherwise, it's a lot of extra money to have to come up with and that sucks.



Edited for clarity.

_TheyOur Homeowners Association Directors were aware for several years that there was a water intrusion issue but they our Board did not disclose to us. I hope they our Directors were legally required to disclose because then we will have a case against them ourselves. Otherwise, it's a lot of extra money to have to come up with and that sucks._​
DRI does not own the resort; we do as owners, and the owners elect a Board of Directors to represent us.  So if there is a legal case, the entity that would be sued is the Board of Directors of the Resort.  Since the HOA would pay the costs associated with the lawsuit, and owners pay the expenses of the HOA, we would in effect be suing ourselves.


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## rjs857 (Oct 16, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Edited for clarity.
> 
> _TheyOur Homeowners Association Directors were aware for several years that there was a water intrusion issue but they our Board did not disclose to us. I hope they our Directors were legally required to disclose because then we will have a case against them ourselves. Otherwise, it's a lot of extra money to have to come up with and that sucks._​
> DRI does not own the resort; we do as owners, and the owners elect a Board of Directors to represent us.  So if there is a legal case, the entity that would be sued is the Board of Directors of the Resort.  Since the HOA would pay the costs associated with the lawsuit, and owners pay the expenses of the HOA, we would in effect be suing ourselves.



Correct. However, when we purchased our points in May 2009, from the very nice DRI sales staff, THEY did not mention the water intrusion issue. Surely THEY had to have known about this issue because I find it hard, make that impossible, to believe that the Board was able to keep such a big issue under wraps. It's like buying a home, the real estate agent asks the owner for disclosure. Then the real estate agent informs the potential buyer of any disclosed problems. Didn't we deserve to make an informed decision instead of being blindsided 2 years later? I doubt I am alone in feeling like I have been mislead by DRI sales staff AND the Board of Directors.


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## timeos2 (Oct 16, 2011)

rjs857 said:


> Correct. However, when we purchased our points in May 2009, from the very nice DRI sales staff, THEY did not mention the water intrusion issue. Surely THEY had to have known about this issue because I find it hard, make that impossible, to believe that the Board was able to keep such a big issue under wraps. It's like buying a home, the real estate agent asks the owner for disclosure. Then the real estate agent informs the potential buyer of any disclosed problems. Didn't we deserve to make an informed decision instead of being blindsided 2 years later? I doubt I am alone in feeling like I have been mislead by DRI sales staff AND the Board of Directors.



Made especially questionable as the majority of the Board are DRI employees. It would seem to be a big stretch to say they weren't aware of the issue as it was being researched.  

Overall it doesn't appear DRI is at fault or failed in anyway to disclose what they knew to existing owners as only the Board has that obligation. The Board has had it on agendas and it has been discussed for a couple years. But there may in fact be a big question if sales to NEW owners included the likelihood of a major problem and the real possibility of a special assessment (regardless of size) as part of the sales disclosure.  So far no one that purchased recently has mentioned that they were informed of any such possibility.  Again it seems hard to think they (sales) didn't know of the issue and, to this decidedly non-legal mind, should have been disclosing that issue.  Maybe it was in the disclosure somewhere (they don't have to SAY it, just disclose things somewhere and they are covered) but only those that have the actual paperwork can find that out.  It may also be covered by the always present paragraph(s) regarding fees and unforeseen costs, etc. But it may well be worth a look by those with far more legal knowledge than most have to determine if things were done correctly or not in this situation.  

It is a shame this is occurring and I'm convinced no one thought it would ever be this bad or costly.  But now it's everyone for themselves as the resort tries to recover as best it can.  That's just the way it is today.


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## oceanvps (Oct 16, 2011)

we bought jan 30 2011 (rescinded in feb 2011) hawaii trust points @ maui. we got a piece of paper - special offer - limited deal for jan 30 and 31 only (i'm sure it changed every couple of days) saying that we were exempt from any special assessment payment for *2011* point of poipu water intrusion problem. BIG RED FLAG. 

i am very sorry for the owners that are caught up in this, what a hellish conundrum. do you pay before jan 31, do you not in case the whole thing goes REALLy sideways and you're one of the few that pay. nightmare.


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## timeos2 (Oct 17, 2011)

If they were offering to cover it for a new buyer than you can be sure they included a disclosure of it somewhere in those pages of documents.  It only makes sense they would - they are up on and follow the rules about these things.  Again, if it's in the docs they are under no obligation to talk about it. It's likely there to read if you wanted to know.  I'd be really surprised if it wasn't.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 17, 2011)

rjs857 said:


> Correct. However, when we purchased our points in May 2009, from the very nice DRI sales staff, THEY did not mention the water intrusion issue. Surely THEY had to have known about this issue because I find it hard, make that impossible, to believe that the Board was able to keep such a big issue under wraps. It's like buying a home, the real estate agent asks the owner for disclosure. Then the real estate agent informs the potential buyer of any disclosed problems. Didn't we deserve to make an informed decision instead of being blindsided 2 years later? I doubt I am alone in feeling like I have been mislead by DRI sales staff AND the Board of Directors.


The place to begin is by reviewing *all *of the documents that you signed when you bought.

First, you should find somewhere in there a document that says that the written documents constitute the entire agreement and that anything that was said during the presentation is not part of the agreement unless it is included in writing in the documents. 

Next you need to look for anything that might be a disclosure of conditions at the resort.  

If you don't find anything like that and you can establish that DRI had constructive knowledge of the situation at the time I think you might have a claim against DRI. That claim, of course, will be subject to whatever your rights are under Hawai'i law.


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## Carolinian (Oct 17, 2011)

This board that you for some reason want to defend so much is in a very incestuous position.  Three of its five members are employees of the management company.  The board is thus little more than an alter ego of management.  That is a horrible conflict of interest to have at any timeshare.

Also, if you sue the board you do not sue yourself.  Board members have personal liability for misfeasance, malfeasance, and nonfeasance.  That is not a liability of the association, but their own liability.  Every timeshare HOA I am aware of covers this by purchasing director liability insurance.  Even tiny resorts keep 7 figure directors liability insurance, and larger resorts would certainly have larger policies.  If directors, in fact, are liable to the owners, then it will at the end of the day be the insurance companies which will pay. Because their own money is ultimately at stake, if a lawsuit is filed against HOA directors, their directors liability insurance carrier will provide an attorney to defend them.

In the case of this resort, the majority of individual owners are stymied from being able to elect a board that truly represents them because the management, for their own self interest in maintaining power, refuses to obey Hawaii law that requires them to turn over copies of the membership list to members that request it.  Without a membership list to get the message out, no rival group is ever going to be able to overcome the DRI dictatorship that exists at this resort.




T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Edited for clarity.
> 
> _TheyOur Homeowners Association Directors were aware for several years that there was a water intrusion issue but they our Board did not disclose to us. I hope they our Directors were legally required to disclose because then we will have a case against them ourselves. Otherwise, it's a lot of extra money to have to come up with and that sucks._​
> DRI does not own the resort; we do as owners, and the owners elect a Board of Directors to represent us.  So if there is a legal case, the entity that would be sued is the Board of Directors of the Resort.  Since the HOA would pay the costs associated with the lawsuit, and owners pay the expenses of the HOA, we would in effect be suing ourselves.


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## rjs857 (Oct 17, 2011)

timeos2 said:


> If they were offering to cover it for a new buyer than you can be sure they included a disclosure of it somewhere in those pages of documents.  It only makes sense they would - they are up on and follow the rules about these things.  Again, if it's in the docs they are under no obligation to talk about it. It's likely there to read if you wanted to know.  I'd be really surprised if it wasn't.



Special Assessments ARE mentioned in the documents in general terms. "_Special Assessments are fees charged by the Association for the purpose of dealing with any shortfall in the standard assessments, or to pay for certain other costs described in the Declaration":_ I'm not sure where the Declaration is in my packet of documents but I will check it too. Special Assessments are addressed again in GENERAL terms in a document we received called "Diamond Resorts Hawaii Collection."  Poipu Point is listed in several locations in this document but no mention of a water intrusion issue. My contention is that this specific issue, although known by DRI, the HOA, the Board or whoever, was NOT disclosed verbally or IN WRITING at the time we purchased 2 years ago. My next step is to scour the "Declaration" to confirm what I believe to be true.


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## dbrin (Oct 17, 2011)

*2012 Speical Assesment*

We are completely outraged over this $6K special assessment. I think many people don't realize this is going to continue over the next 5 years!


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## mslvasquez (Oct 17, 2011)

If the special assessment is paid by the seller, and held in escrow as a part of the sale and earmarked for the special assessment...what are the chances that if other owners or new buyers don't pay their share that the varience can be passed along to the other owners?

I used to own a home with an HOA, and we had a couple of small special assessments...if homeowners didn't pay...the HOA put a lien on their property...they didn't come back to the rest of us for the difference.

Anyone know?

Thanks


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## bogey21 (Oct 17, 2011)

I know they are different situations but i own a Week at Perigrine (near Galveston, TX).  A couple of years ago the Resort was almost totally destroyed by a hurricane.  It took almost 2 years but *the Independent Board of Directors and the Management team* completely rebuilt the Resort using Insurance Proceeds and Regular Maintenance Fees.  There were all kinds of issues with FEMA, the Corps of Engineers, etc.  But it was all done without any Special Assessment.  I was shocked but pleasantly surprised. 

George


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## Carolinian (Oct 18, 2011)

The independent boards and management teams at most of the Outer Banks resorts heavily damaged by Hurricane Isabel also rebuilt using insurance proceeds with no SA's.  The key is being properly insured and then making sure you don't get taken by contractors.




bogey21 said:


> I know they are different situations but i own a Week at Perigrine (near Galveston, TX).  A couple of years ago the Resort was almost totally destroyed by a hurricane.  It took almost 2 years but *the Independent Board of Directors and the Management team* completely rebuilt the Resort using Insurance Proceeds and Regular Maintenance Fees.  There were all kinds of issues with FEMA, the Corps of Engineers, etc.  But it was all done without any Special Assessment.  I was shocked but pleasantly surprised.
> 
> George


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 18, 2011)

Carolinian said:


> The independent boards and management teams at most of the Outer Banks resorts heavily damaged by Hurricane Isabel also rebuilt using insurance proceeds with no SA's.  The key is being properly insured and then making sure you don't get taken by contractors.


It also helps when you are insured for sudden and catastrophic events and you experience damage as a result of a sudden and catastrophic event.


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## Kpaul (Oct 18, 2011)

*Questions to ask DRI if you are going to the meeting:*

Questions to ask DRI if you are going to the meeting:

We should have a right to see these documents.

1. Were they aware of the problem when they took over management of the resort?
2. We would like a copy of the insurance policy for the resort.
3. Why wouldn't we want to spend $1,000,000 on litigation against the insurance company versus spending $65,000,000 - $80,000,000 and let the insurance company off without liability of the policy.
4. Provide the Engineering Reports regarding these water intrusion issues.
5. Provide the Contract that has been executed with the contractor that is going to do the work.
6. Provide the proposals that were received by all the contractors.


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## nlions (Oct 20, 2011)

*And if you went to a presentation today for the Hawaii collection . . .*

. . . . you can be assured they will not mention this


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