# New Hilton Timeshare planned for Maui



## danb (Oct 2, 2014)

Well, for all you Maui lovers out there in tug land, Hilton has finally done it. Announced today on the Star advisor that Hilton will be building a new 300 million time share in Kehei Maui. Looking forward to exchanging into that one but I'm sure it will be under the higher point structure.


----------



## HatTrick (Oct 2, 2014)

*Honolulu Star-Advertiser*

Hilton has purchased the former Maui Lu Resort.






Hilton to manage new $300-million time share in Maui.


----------



## Sandy VDH (Oct 2, 2014)

Wow,  Never thought this would actually happen.  I thought Maui had closed down so many other plans.  

So we shall see. 

I hope it frees up some of the demand on HHV.  But the new tower there should help as well.


----------



## rfc0001 (Oct 2, 2014)

Sandy VDH said:


> Wow, Never thought this would actually happen. I thought Maui had closed down so many other plans.
> 
> So we shall see.
> 
> I hope it frees up some of the demand on HHV. But the new tower there should help as well.


Wow, salespeople in July said they were planning development on Maui and I thought they were blowing smoke since they've been hinting at that since 2006. Pleasant surprise. Kauai next?


----------



## GregT (Oct 3, 2014)

I'm very happy to see this -- Kihei is a charming beach town and I've had many happy trips there to the Worldmark timeshare down off Kamaole Beach 1.

This is a good spot for an HGVC property and, like others, I'd not expected HGVC to expand to Maui.  Kihei is a logical (and well-chosen) spot.   

My opinion is that this should be consistent with traditional points pricing since the construction costs aren't there.   It will be interesting to see what develops.   [Edit: Based on subsequent posts, I now think they will price similar to Park City]

I'm sure other TUGgers will be there before me, but if not, I promise pictures from the Maui Lu in June 2015!

Best,

Greg


----------



## rfc0001 (Oct 3, 2014)

Pretty impressive looking property http://binged.it/1r5LhNE

Wonder if they'll divert Kihei Rd to avoid a road separating the resort from the beach.

Anyone know what the beach is like there?

I'm guessing this will be a low rise development (like Kingsland) given building codes in South Maui.

Any guesses on when HGVC will start selling pre-construction? I'll be up for an "upgrade" in 2016, so may be interesting, esp. given demand @ the 9-mos window for the only HGVC resort in Maui.

Not promising review of existing resort:
"You do not want to swim at this beach. (dirty and not much beach access). You will need to go to Kamaole beach"


----------



## alwysonvac (Oct 3, 2014)

*Thanks for sharing*

There was a brief TUG discussion about this property two years ago - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179292



> From mauinews.com
> 
> Aston Maui Lu Resort listed for sale
> Property already zoned for conversion to time share
> ...








Hawaii Revealed website indicates that the Maui Lu closed its doors on September 10, 2014


----------



## alwysonvac (Oct 3, 2014)

There are photos of the views and beach area on Tripadvisor and Yelp
- http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/aston-maui-lu-kihei-2#4NouEHSJinl0IUQeWeXSZA
- http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re...-Maui_Lu_Resort-Kihei_Maui_Hawaii.html#photos

Nice views from the resort area.
Hopefully the new buildings will have lots of great oceanview rooms.


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 3, 2014)

That's great news!  Always happy to hear about resorts, and ones in new locations are even better...

My wife got spoiled by our anniversary stay at the Grand Wailea on Maui, and she still talks about that.  so that will be hard to top that.

with the road in the middle, I am guessing there will be some ocean front views, and lots of garden / island views... but still should be a great new resort..


----------



## GregT (Oct 3, 2014)

rfc0001 said:


> Not promising review of existing resort:
> "You do not want to swim at this beach. (dirty and not much beach access). You will need to go to Kamaole beach"



My original trips to Maui in 1998-1999, I stayed at the Kihei Beach Resort just up the road.  The beach is not special - but the water is not dirty, just murky.  I don't know why, but poor visibility. 

Down the road, Kamaole Beach I is across the street from WM and is a far superior beach to Kaanapali Beach (which I think is overrated due to the rock/coral just off shore which hurt your feet)

There is also Kamaole II and Kamaole III - all three are fantastic beaches.  

I didn't realize this was where Marriott was going to build their second Maui timeshare, I bet this becomes a fantastic Hilton property. 

Best,

Greg


----------



## buzglyd (Oct 3, 2014)

Interesting that is a Japanese group that bought the property and HGVC is going to manage it.

Hilton is marketing heavily to the Japanese these days in Hawaii.

Lots of shopping in Wailea and this won't be far away.


----------



## JimmieJames (Oct 3, 2014)

We own at Maui Beach Vacation Club about 1 block North from Maui Lu.  We always get a 5th. or 6th. floor room and spend hours watching the whales breaching in season.  A great spot for that activity.

Jim


----------



## Sandy VDH (Oct 3, 2014)

Hawaii properties have always been heavily marketed to the Japanese, and now other Asian populations.  Nothing new about that.


----------



## HatTrick (Oct 3, 2014)

alwysonvac said:


>



Any idea where they'll put the zip line?  :rofl:


----------



## HatTrick (Oct 3, 2014)

alwysonvac said:


> There are photos of the views and beach area on Tripadvisor and Yelp
> 
> Nice views from the resort area.



And great sunsets:


----------



## buzglyd (Oct 3, 2014)

Sandy VDH said:


> Hawaii properties have always been heavily marketed to the Japanese, and now other Asian populations.  Nothing new about that.



True but look at the most recent Hilton in Hawaii.

Hokulani clearly has the Asian tourist in mind more so than American.


----------



## GregT (Oct 3, 2014)

From the Maui Council's 2011 minutes -- I've not yet found the presentation but some interesting color

http://www.co.maui.hi.us/Search/Results?searchPhrase="maui lu redevelopment"&page=1&perPage=50

http://www.co.maui.hi.us/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/15538



> This is a, a really special project. It has a lot of history and it’s a project of really high quality that I hope the slide presentation will present to you or communicate to you. The request is for a Special Management Area Permit time extension and it’s for the redevelopment of the Maui Lu. The Maui Lu is a historical project that has existed in Kihei since the early 1950's, actually when Mr. Gordon Gibson purchased the property. It’s really South Maui’s first resort destination and it was basically an attraction that a lot of Canadians came to in the early days on Maui and in terms of the growth of the visitor industry in South Maui.
> 
> The land use designations, the property has been identified as Urban since the adoption of the State Land Use Law in 1962. The property is also been identified as Hotel since the adoption of the Kihei Civic Plan which was in 1968. And the property has been zoned H-1 Hotel and HM Hotel. H-1 is two stories, HM is six stories and that zoning designation has existed since the adoption of the Kihei-South Maui Zoning Ordinance, Zoning Plan in 1969. The existing facility was basically built in the late ‘50's, early ‘60's. The site is 27.28 acres. There’s currently a 120 transient vacation units available. Forty-eight units are in three, two-story masonry buildings with parking on the makai portion. The total unit count was 218 units. That was at its prime in 1982. Currently, dilapidated buildings exist on the site. The long house is basically vacant, I’m sorry, dilapidated buildings exist on the site in the context of vacant buildings. The long house, restaurant building exist still on the site. Also, minimal recreation facilities on site.
> 
> ...


----------



## GregT (Oct 3, 2014)

The internet is amazing.

Page 95 is where the the layouts begin.  This is an old document, and no way to know if this still represents current thinking.

http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/Shared D...ui/2000s/2004-10-23-MA-FEA-MAUI-LU-RESORT.pdf


----------



## GregT (Oct 3, 2014)

GregT said:


> My opinion is that this should be consistent with traditional points pricing since the construction costs aren't there.



I don't think this anymore -- I bet its point-priced like the Park City property...


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 3, 2014)

GregT said:


> I don't think this anymore -- I bet its point-priced like the Park City property...



Nice job finding the documents!!  Looks like nice resort when it done.

Just out of curiosity, what is making you guess it will be similar points to Park City?  I was guessing closer to KL or GW, but my only reason was the popularity of Maui..


----------



## PigsDad (Oct 3, 2014)

One should note that the Park City uses the standard points structure.  For example, 2BR std unit in Platinum is 7000 points, a plus unit is 8400, and a premium is 9600.  The difference is that Park City has more Premium and Plus units where several of the older properties do not.

In contrast, KL and GW use higher points for each of those room classifications.

I am guessing that this new property will use the standard points structure, but have more Premium and Plus units like Park City, Myrtle Beach, etc.

Kurt


----------



## rfc0001 (Oct 3, 2014)

GregT said:


> From the Maui Council's 2011 minutes -- I've not yet found the presentation but some interesting color
> 
> http://www.co.maui.hi.us/Search/Results?searchPhrase="maui lu redevelopment"&page=1&perPage=50
> 
> http://www.co.maui.hi.us/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/15538



Key excerpts:





> the property has been zoned H-1 Hotel and HM Hotel. *H-1 is two stories*, *HM is six stories *and that zoning designation has existed since the adoption of the Kihei-South Maui Zoning Ordinance, Zoning Plan in 1969.





> *H-1 Hotel on the ocean side and on the first 200 feet of the site on the makai side *of the mauka property and HM Hotel and come up with a design that was residential in scale and in character.





> *The total unit count was 218 units*. That was at its prime in 1982.





> The design basically, 52 percent of – *is actually 52 percent of the allowable density.*


So, they are basically proposing two story on the ocean side and first 200 ft. on the opposite side, and up to 6 story everywhere else, for a total of 419 units (218/.52).


----------



## jestme (Oct 3, 2014)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Nice job finding the documents!!  Looks like nice resort when it done.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what is making you guess it will be similar points to Park City?  I was guessing closer to KL or GW, but my only reason was the popularity of Maui..



I think HGVC has figured out that people will pay for the resorts in Hawaii, more than they will pay for Orlando or LV. They don't need to hike up the points value you get when you buy, or the points needed to use there. The owners at the Grand Waikikian now often trade in the massive points they got when they bought at the GW and stay at the Lagoon. It creates an imbalance in the whole system. They trade in one week at the GW, and get almost two at the Lagoon, Kalia or the Hokulani.


----------



## GregT (Oct 3, 2014)

rfc0001 said:


> Key excerpts:So, they are basically proposing two story on the ocean side and first 200 ft. on the opposite side, and up to 6 story everywhere else, for a total of 419 units (218/.52).



Russ,

I think its a little different.

I believe they are proposing 19 buildings, mostly four stories, but a couple that are shorter (to not block the view of the other buildings).   These are all on the east side of the road, and total the 388 timeshare units that are proposed.  I believe most are lock-offs, but not all.

There are currently three buildings to the west side of the road.  I believe one building (the one parallel to the road) will be torn down and a Beach Club will be built on its spot, with a kitchen, lounge, rest rooms, etc.  

The two other buildings (parallel to one another) will be renovated to be 12 total units, thus bigger than their current configuration, and I believe those will be rental units and not sold as timeshares.  Thus, this would be a 400 unit property.

This assumes that the 2004 Plan is what has carried forward.

The layout is very reminiscent of Westin Kaanapali and/or Marriott Waiohai, where you have a number of buildings that are in staggered configuration, many with island and ocean views and a smaller number that more consistent with an ocean front.   

I think it will be a very nice property, and on Google Earth, the ocean water off the beach looks better than Sugar Beach up the road (where Kihei Beach Resort is).

Best,

Greg


Edited:  Uploaded a file (thanks for fixing it Russ!)


----------



## Sandy VDH (Oct 3, 2014)

These plans may have little to do with the current HGVC thinking.  I have no idea who had the 2004 plans.


----------



## GregT (Oct 3, 2014)

Sandy VDH said:


> These plans may have little to do with the current HGVC thinking.  I have no idea who had the 2004 plans.



Yes, I cautioned as such in my note.

But I do not think you should be so dismissive of the 2004 Plans.  I'm sure you read the history and saw that it was a highly contentious project that almost didn't get approved, and has been subject to two extensions, each not without controversy.

HGVC may in fact introduce a very different site plan -- but personally I would bet that the final project will be consistent with the original 2004 Plans (any interest? ).

Best,

Greg


----------



## Ron98GT (Oct 4, 2014)

HatTrick said:


> Hilton has purchased the former Maui Lu Resort.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, Hilton/HGVC has not purchased the Maui Lu Resort, Capbridge Pacific LLC has purchased the Maui Lu Resort.  HGVC is going to manage the property.  HGVC/Hilton did not buy it and and they are not going to build it.  It will be an affiliate, similar to the Elara and the Trump, both in Las Vegas. 

At one time HGVC/Hilton designed, built, and sold TS's under the HGVC brand.  The also managed properties for other owners, such as the Bay Club, the TS's in SW Florida, California, and Mexico, as affiliates.  Now, as in the case of the Elara, Trump, and Maui, Hilton/HGVC is not only managing affiliates, but they are also selling the affiliates for the owners also.  Interesting where HGVC is going. 

"Capbridge Pacific LLC, said Thursday it has purchased the 28-acre beachfront property in Kihei formerly known as the Maui Lu Resort."


Interesting when reading the articles about the Maui Lu Resort, they talk about it's historical significance, but they go on to approving demolition of the original buildings: all you have left is the land.


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward (Oct 4, 2014)

GregT said:


> My original trips to Maui in 1998-1999, I stayed at the Kihei Beach Resort just up the road.  The beach is not special - but the water is not dirty, just murky.  I don't know why, but poor visibility.
> 
> Down the road, Kamaole Beach I is across the street from WM and is a far superior beach to Kaanapali Beach (which I think is overrated due to the rock/coral just off shore which hurt your feet)
> 
> ...



According to my _Maui Revealed_ Maui Lu is in the effluent path from the Sewage Treatment Plant effluent pipeline exiting just north of Kama'ole I...


----------



## rfc0001 (Oct 4, 2014)

jestme said:


> I think HGVC has figured out that people will pay for the resorts in Hawaii, more than they will pay for Orlando or LV. They don't need to hike up the points value you get when you buy, or the points needed to use there.


I think you are saying because Hawaii resorts are popular, you could afford to sell them at a higher CPP -- however at least with GW and KL their popularity may be _because_ of their _low_ CPP (KL is lowest CPP currently being sold in HGVC) and _low _MFs (GW and KL are also lowest MF/pt in HGVC with some units at $0.12/pt). I know that's why I bought at KL, and would be the only way I would upgrade to Maui.





> The owners at the Grand Waikikian now often trade in the massive points they got when they bought at the GW and stay at the Lagoon. It creates an imbalance in the whole system. They trade in one week at the GW, and get almost two at the Lagoon, Kalia or the Hokulani.


It's not an imbalance _if _the higher point resorts are more popular, in which case they _should _have higher points to normalize demand. That said, this assumes HGVC had 100% clairvoyance about future demand when they priced every resort -- which obviously they didn't. It would be nice (but infeasible) if they could move to the DVC model of just owning a home _resort,_ not unit type, then could adjust points within and across seasons based on demand. The total points would stay the same, but higher demand seasons/units could be priced higher and lower demand seasons/units could be priced lower. They could also adjust the seasons themselves based on trends. This would have other benefits of the same MFs/pt for all points, and allow resort owners access to any rooms at the 12-mos window. Downside is your "Platinum season" purchase may not get a week that was Platinum when you bought, nor get the unit type you purchased -- so would create a class-action lawsuit despite being an arguably better system (works great for DVC).





GregT said:


> Edited: Uploading a file -- sorry it's sideways


Fixed that for you: View attachment 1814


Sandy VDH said:


> These plans may have little to do with the current HGVC thinking. I have no idea who had the 2004 plans.


I would argue any plans submitted to the county are likely indicative of what was ultimately approved, which will likely be adhered to by any future owner, since their decision to purchase was based on being able to develop the property. The developer wouldn't have bought and issued a press release including partnership with HGVC if the development weren't already approved. That said, we don't have the final approved plans of the previous owner, but these early drafts should be indicative of those, and whatever was approved should be adhered to.





GregT said:


> Yes, I cautioned as such in my note.
> 
> But I do not think you should be so dismissive of the 2004 Plans. I'm sure you read the history and saw that it was a highly contentious project that almost didn't get approved, and has been subject to two extensions, each not without controversy.
> 
> HGVC may in fact introduce a very different site plan -- but personally I would bet that the final project will be consistent with the original 2004 Plans (any interest? ).


Completely agree. The value of this property is in the _approved_ plans. The current developer and HGVC don't want to revisit those decisions or they risk _losing ground _(literally)_._


Ron98GT said:


> No, Hilton/HGVC has not purchased the Maui Lu Resort, Capbridge Pacific LLC has purchased the Maui Lu Resort. HGVC is going to manage the property. HGVC/Hilton did not buy it and and they are not going to build it. It will be an affiliate, similar to the Elara and the Trump, both in Las Vegas.
> 
> At one time HGVC/Hilton designed, built, and sold TS's under the HGVC brand. The also managed properties for other owners, such as the Bay Club, the TS's in SW Florida, California, and Mexico, as affiliates. Now, as in the case of the Elara, Trump, and Maui, Hilton/HGVC is not only managing affiliates, but they are also selling the affiliates for the owners also. Interesting where HGVC is going.


Good point. These are three separate things -- who develops it (e.g. who owned the land and developed the resort), who sells it, and who manages it. Right now, we have resorts HGVC developed, sold, and manages, affiliate resorts where someone else developed it but HGVC sells and manages it (Elara, Trump), affiliate resorts where someone else developed _and _sold but HGVC manages, and affiliate resorts HGVC does non of the above. I would argue the difference between the first two is almost irrelevant. There is just a middle man who is also making money off the development, but at the end of the day, the timeshare owners are who will own the resort -- not HGVC or the developer, and in either case HGVC sells it, HGVC members own it, and HGVC manages it. It just happened to be developed by someone else, and to my previous point, regardless of who develops it, they are going to stick with the approved plans as much as possible





> "Capbridge Pacific LLC, said Thursday it has purchased the 28-acre beachfront property in Kihei formerly known as the Maui Lu Resort."


BTW, full press release available here:
http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...p-Purchases-28-Acre-Maui-Property-Redeveloped


> Interesting when reading the articles about the Maui Lu Resort, they talk about it's historical significance, but they go on to approving demolition of the original buildings: all you have left is the land.


I thought the same thing -- however I think they are alluding to the historical significance of maintaining _a _resort at this location given a) it was the first resort in Kihei and b) given it's "park-like" settings in the city. They are basically trying to counter people opposed to a large resort in their back yard, by saying that having _a_ resort has played a significant role in the local economy and local character of the city--not the buildings themselves, but the overall development, which will remain. They allude to this in the press release:





> We are delighted to work with Hilton Grand Vacations to revitalize this area of Maui, which holds a special place in Maui’s tourism history


----------



## rfc0001 (Oct 4, 2014)

Some more details from the Press Release above:


> The company is collaborating with Hilton Grand Vacations to redevelop the property into a timeshare resort that will break ground in late 2015 and open in 2017. The $300 million redevelopment project is The Capbridge Group’s first venture in Hawaii and will be the first Hilton Grand Vacations property on the island of Maui.





> Situated on the eastern edge of Maalaea Bay adjacent to the Humpback Whale Sanctuary Visitor Center and Kalepolepo Beach Park, a State Conservation area, the new resort will be developed as a villa-style, Hawaiian resort featuring 388 one-, two-, and three-bedroom residences. The resort also will feature a super pool, fitness center, and kids and teen centers.  Conveniently located, the resort is only 15 minutes from the Kahului Airport and near a variety of restaurant, shopping, and nightlife destinations in Kihei and Wailea. The new resort will boast 740 feet of oceanfront property from its private beach club and great lawn on Maui’s longest beach


So not clear if the $300M includes the $70M purchase price (assume it does), but with 388 units x 52 weeks, that's $15K/unit on average in _cost, _so brace yourself for some steep purchases costs (and likely high point values to the previous conversation).


----------



## HatTrick (Oct 4, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> No, Hilton/HGVC has not purchased the Maui Lu Resort, Capbridge Pacific LLC has purchased the Maui Lu Resort.  HGVC is going to manage the property.



I stand corrected.  

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102055565

"Situated on the eastern edge of Maalaea Bay adjacent to the Humpback Whale Sanctuary Visitor Center and Kalepolepo Beach Park, a State Conservation area, the new resort will be developed as a villa-style, Hawaiian resort featuring 388 one-, two-, and three-bedroom residences. The resort also will feature a super pool, fitness center, and kids and teen centers. Conveniently located, the resort is only 15 minutes from the Kahului Airport and near a variety of restaurant, shopping, and nightlife destinations in Kihei and Wailea. The new resort will boast 740 feet of oceanfront property from its private beach club and great lawn on Maui’s longest beach."


----------



## HatTrick (Oct 4, 2014)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> According to my _Maui Revealed_ Maui Lu is in the effluent path from the Sewage Treatment Plant effluent pipeline exiting just north of Kama'ole I...



Echoed by a TravelPod review:

"... by the way, don't swim on the Hotel's beach, a waste water treatment plant empties into the water just south of there, the current moves north."


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 4, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> At one time HGVC/Hilton designed, built, and sold TS's under the HGVC brand.  The also managed properties for other owners, such as the Bay Club, the TS's in SW Florida, California, and Mexico, as affiliates.  Now, as in the case of the Elara, Trump, and Maui, Hilton/HGVC is not only managing affiliates, but they are also selling the affiliates for the owners also.  Interesting where HGVC is going.
> 
> .



This is the main strategy for Hilton now.  Management is calling it "Capital Light" in the investor documents and conferences. They no longer build or own hotels either.  Much more profitable for Hilton to partner with someone to develop and own the property, while Hilton provides the management and bookings, or in the case of timeshares, sell the units.

Unless they have a major shift in strategy i doubt we will see new resorts built by Hilton.   That said, i am sure they have strong influence over the design when they are involved from the beginning like this.


----------



## Ron98GT (Oct 4, 2014)

HatTrick said:


> I stand corrected.
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/102055565
> 
> "Situated on the eastern edge of Maalaea Bay adjacent to the Humpback Whale Sanctuary Visitor Center and Kalepolepo Beach Park, a State Conservation area, the new resort will be developed as a villa-style, Hawaiian resort featuring 388 one-, two-, and three-bedroom residences. The resort also will feature a super pool, fitness center, and kids and teen centers. Conveniently located, the resort is only 15 minutes from the Kahului Airport and near a variety of restaurant, shopping, and nightlife destinations in Kihei and Wailea. The new resort will boast 740 feet of oceanfront property from its private beach club and great lawn on Maui’s longest beach."



Hmm.  

!st off, there are no "private" beaches in Hawaii, their not disclosing that.

2nd, there is a public highway between the TS's and the "private" beach.

:hysterical:


----------



## Ron98GT (Oct 4, 2014)

1Kflyerguy said:


> This is the main strategy for Hilton now.  Management is calling it "Capital Light" in the investor documents and conferences. They no longer build or own hotels either.  Much more profitable for Hilton to partner with someone to develop and own the property, while Hilton provides the management and bookings, or in the case of timeshares, sell the units.
> 
> Unless they have a major shift in strategy i doubt we will see new resorts built by Hilton.   That said, i am sure they have strong influence over the design when they are involved from the beginning like this.



So, next time any & all Tuggers (me included) go to a HGVC owners update or presentation and the sales person starts slamming affiliates (like they always do) and saying how the owners  are going to start losing access and other privileges, we have to remind that person of HGVC's new ownership, management, & sales philosophy, specifically regarding the Elara, Trump, Bay Club, and the new Maui Property.

For those that have attended a sales presentation, and especially those that purchased, at the Elara and Trump, did they disclose that those properties are affiliates?  There was some one, I think in this thread, that said that they purchased a Bay Club from HGVC at a KL presentation, but it was never disclosed that the BC is an affiliate.


----------



## HudsHut (Oct 4, 2014)

Super Pool!!! Hurray!.

First thing I thought when I saw the pictures is, that pool is too small.


----------



## HatTrick (Oct 4, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> Hmm.
> 
> !st off, there are no "private" beaches in Hawaii, their not disclosing that.
> 
> ...



Your forgot to highlight "club". As in private beach club. That is, the club is private, not the beach.


----------



## jestme (Oct 5, 2014)

rfc0001 said:


> I think you are saying because Hawaii resorts are popular, you could afford to sell them at a higher CPP -- however at least with GW and KL their popularity may be _because_ of their _low_ CPP (KL is lowest CPP currently being sold in HGVC) and _low _MFs (GW and KL are also lowest MF/pt in HGVC with some units at $0.12/pt). I know that's why I bought at KL, and would be the only way I would upgrade to Maui.It's not an imbalance _if _the higher point resorts are more popular, in which case they _should _have higher points to normalize demand. That said, this assumes HGVC had 100% clairvoyance about future demand when they priced every resort -- which obviously they didn't. It would be nice (but infeasible) if they could move to the DVC model of just owning a home _resort,_ not unit type, then could adjust points within and across seasons based on demand. The total points would stay the same, but higher demand seasons/units could be priced higher and lower demand seasons/units could be priced lower. They could also adjust the seasons themselves based on trends. This would have other benefits of the same MFs/pt for all points, and allow resort owners access to any rooms at the 12-mos window. Downside is your "Platinum season" purchase may not get a week that was Platinum when you bought, nor get the unit type you purchased -- so would create a class-action lawsuit despite being an arguably better system (works great for DVC).


To me, the HGVC concept of "buy a week", "get a week", "use a week", "forever", is a far better concept than buy points and save them up, or rent some from someone else to be able to go where you want, sometimes. Ask the DVC owners who would like to go to Aulani about their successes trading in. Then you have to give it all back after 35 years. 
The last thing I would want is to have flexible points and not be able to use what I bought anymore because someone changed the point structure. (As you know, the HHonors point structures get changed and it is NEVER for the benefit of us.) 
As far as using points to "balance demand", the problem is that at HGVC, within the same locations, you can get a room under the old point structure as well as the new one. So, you give up 7 days, and get 10-11 days in another building. That creates a 3-4 day imbalance in the trade. That takes away from every member's available inventory. 
JMHO.


----------



## SmithOp (Oct 5, 2014)

I don't think the new management policy is to solely manage others assets, it's in addition to building out HGVC resorts.  New tower going in at HHV, new building at Kingsland.


----------



## JSparling (Oct 5, 2014)

PigsDad said:


> In contrast, KL and GW use higher points for each of those room classifications



We have a platinum 2BR at KL worth 7,000 points. It's in Phase 2 and a ground floor unit. We prefer the ground floor so the kids can play outside on the grass and we have easier access to the bbq's. One of those rare times that for fewer points we get our ideal room. The higher the floor at KL the more points you need (plus, premier rooms).


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 6, 2014)

SmithOp said:


> I don't think the new management policy is to solely manage others assets, it's in addition to building out HGVC resorts.  New tower going in at HHV, new building at Kingsland.



Correct, i did not mean to imply that was their only strategy..  From the Hilton 2013 Annual Report:

"Our strategy allows us to invest minimal amounts of capital in growing our Management and Franchise segment, while providing owners with a valuable platform of commercial services and development opportunities. We’ve grown this segment by over 180,000 rooms since 2007 – a 37 percent increase accomplished with a mere $47 million in capital investment."

"Finally, our Timeshare segment is achieving sales growth and margins that consistently outperform the competition and is becoming increasingly more capital efficient. At the end of 2013, our supply of third-party developed timeshare intervals was approximately 78 percent of total supply. By further expanding the capital efficiency of this business, as well as incrementally developing properties already on our balance sheet, we can continue to grow this business with minimal capital investment."


To me, this means they will continue to build out existing HGVC owned and developed resorts like Kings' Land, and HHV to meet market demand.  But most or all of the "new" resorts will probably be built by 3rd parties.


----------



## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 6, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> So, next time any & all Tuggers (me included) go to a HGVC owners update or presentation and the sales person starts slamming affiliates (like they always do) and saying how the owners  are going to start losing access and other privileges, we have to remind that person of HGVC's new ownership, management, & sales philosophy, specifically regarding the Elara, Trump, Bay Club, and the new Maui Property.
> 
> For those that have attended a sales presentation, and especially those that purchased, at the Elara and Trump, did they disclose that those properties are affiliates?  There was some one, I think in this thread, that said that they purchased a Bay Club from HGVC at a KL presentation, but it was never disclosed that the BC is an affiliate.



No idea what they are telling people in the sale presentation.  But it seems like the concept of affiliate may be evolving over time.  I am not certain, but My guess is that they  treat Maui like more of a true HGVC resort than affiliate. 

From what i can tell HGVC will be the exclusive sales and marketing organization for the new resort.  With most of the "affiliates" you have a bunch of units sold by the original developer and those may or may not be part of HGVC.  For example at Bay Club there are units not part of HGVC, but the owners can choose to join.  With Elara, if you're part of the original Westgate units, too bad, you don't have the option to join.  

I am guessing membership in HGVC will be mandatory with all the Maui units if HGVC has the exclusive sales rights.


----------



## Ron98GT (Oct 6, 2014)

SmithOp said:


> I don't think the new management policy is to solely manage others assets, it's in addition to building out HGVC resorts.  New tower going in at HHV, new building at Kingsland.


Not the best examples of HGVC owned non-affiliate future expansion.  The land has been and still is owned by HGVC (aka Hilton, aka Blackstone Group), the expansions have been planned for a long period of time, and the funds have been budgeted for: it's adding onto an existing HGVC owned TS complex.  FYI, you can add the 1-buildiong at the Waikoloa Hotel to the above list.  

When we (I) state that the future philosophy for HGVC sites in new locations will mostly likely be affiliates (just like Maui, Elara, and the Trump), we (I) are referring to new locations on new land not currently owned by the Black Stone Group. It's more costly for HGVC to purchase land or an existing complex, draw plans, get approvals, and then build the new TS complex (buildings, pools, restaurants, etc.).  It's apparently more cost effective for HGVC to manage and sell TS's at a complex, purchased, design, and built by another entity/developer.


----------



## rfc0001 (Oct 6, 2014)

Ron98GT said:


> When we (I) state that the future philosophy for HGVC sites in new locations will mostly likely be affiliates (just like Maui, Elara, and the Trump), we (I) are referring to new locations on new land not currently owned by the Black Stone Group. It's more costly for HGVC to purchase land or an existing complex, draw plans, get approvals, and then build the new TS complex (buildings, pools, restaurants, etc.). *It's apparently more cost effective for HGVC to manage and sell TS's at a complex, purchased, design, and built by another entity/developer*


Of course it is...let someone else invest $300M and just make a commission on the sales -- pass on the added costs of the middle man to the consumer


----------

