# Wyndham Bans Ebay Sales/Purchases?



## carlbarry (Jul 19, 2009)

I don't know if this is the correct forum, but here goes:
An elderly friend of mine just returned from Atlantic City, on his sister's points. He went to three days - I kid you not - of sales presentations (personally, I'd rather be waterboarded). When they tried to sell him points, he asked why should he buy from them, as he has a friend (me) who buys on ebay for pennies.
Here's the good part: They told him, "Let your friend buy all he wants. *We are no longer honoring points purchased on ebay* When he calls to use them, we will tell him we do not accept those points." !!!!!!!
Has any body else encountered this?
By the way, I'd also like your opinions on this: What they _did_ talk him into is transferring his deed to D.C., and purchasing an extra 154,000 points for a total of 308,000 points. This will add to his monthly financing (some people never learn), and cost him over 10 years $3,6000. AND they told him his MF would go up a mere $9 per month, for a total of $91 per month.
Thanks.


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## Blondie (Jul 19, 2009)

I'g guess that is a standard lie they tell to forestall that discussion. I have bought most of my timeshares and points on ebay and to my knowledge the resort NEVER knows how or where the resale occurs.


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## carlbarry (Jul 19, 2009)

It just occurs to me, and as a lawyer, it should have occurred sooner LOL--that if Wyndham accepts your ownership when you purchase, and then accepts your payments of membership, MF, property tax, etc., it's a little difficult for them not to accept you as a legitimate owner when you call to book a reservation!


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## JMAESD84 (Jul 19, 2009)

I hope your elderly friend is still has time to rescind this purchase and does so promptly.

It's very sad to hear of these folks getting ripped off especially when they have friends who know better.


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## Patri (Jul 19, 2009)

You don't want to get him to rescind his latest purchase?


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## carlbarry (Jul 19, 2009)

I don't think there is any chance he'd rescind.  He feels that 1. it's a good buy because he can pass it on to the children. and 2. he can rent out rooms he's booked and make money.  Also, he is afraid of Wyndham; he asked me not to post details, as he "doesn't want to get in trouble."  In fact, his wife was yelling at him not to talk to me!


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 19, 2009)

*Wyndham Restrictions Against Renting Out Points Reservations.*




carlbarry said:


> 2. he can rent out rooms he's booked and make money.


Wasn't there recently lots of heated discussion right here on TUG-BBS about Wyndham's clamping down on renting out reservations ? 

As I recall, some people were doing that bigtime -- so much so that the clampdown put them in a serious financial bind. 

Or am I remembering wrong ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## PerryM (Jul 19, 2009)

*Wag the dog...*

There is a very good reason that Wyndham resales go for 5 cents on the dollar - Wyndham is at war with their owners.  This is a knock-down, take no prisoners war by Wyndham against every Wyndham owner.

This war takes many forms but lying to owners is right up there at the top.

If Wyndham interferes with the normal usage of a deeded timeshare that's against many real estate laws I'd bet.

However, they can screw around with just about anything else that hasn't to do with the normal process of reserving a deeded week at the home resort.  Points are not deeded weeks and thus Wyndham can mess with them anyway they want; I'll bet the fine print on the points agreement says so.

Maybe Wyndham will be the first timeshare company where resales are worth $0.00, or make history and worth NEGATIVE value - you, the owner, will gladly pay someone to take over the MFs.

The consequence of being at war with the owners is that resales look better and better to the informed resale buyer - the exact opposite result that Wyndham wanted.  (This should not be a surprise when the sales folks wag the dog)

Unintended consequences isn't just limited to our federal government...


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## Carolinian (Jul 19, 2009)

Perry, we often disagree on timeshare issues, but we have the same view of Wyndham, formerly Fairfield.  You could not give me a timeshare at a resort run by these people.  The war they conducted with their owners at Bluebeards Castle in the USVI should give everyone a wakeup call.  They certainly earned the name unFairfield in that fiasco.

Fortunately, when Fairfield/Wyndham bought out Peppertree/Equivest, the two Peppertree resorts on the Outer Banks had homeowner-controlled HOA's and they promptly kicked out Fairfield/Wyndham as management.





PerryM said:


> There is a very good reason that Wyndham resales go for 5 cents on the dollar - Wyndham is at war with their owners.  This is a knock-down, take no prisoners war by Wyndham against every Wyndham owner.
> 
> This war takes many forms but lying to owners is right up there at the top.
> 
> ...


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## Talent312 (Jul 19, 2009)

carlbarry said:


> He feels that 1. it's a good buy because he can pass it on to the children, and 2. he can rent out rooms he's booked and make money.



He is delusional, on both counts.



carlbarry said:


> Also, he is afraid of Wyndham; he asked me not to post details, as he "doesn't want to get in trouble."  In fact, his wife was yelling at him not to talk to me!



Its the Spanish Inquisition! Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.  -- Monte Python

_Sorry.  I couldn't resist._


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## ausman (Jul 19, 2009)

carlbarry said:


> I don't think there is any chance he'd rescind.  He feels that 1. it's a good buy because he can pass it on to the children. and 2. he can rent out rooms he's booked and make money.



He probably has not looked at the points chart also, he won't be doing a lot of renting of National Harbor with 308K points.

If he were my friend, even though he may not follow the advise, I'd feel bad for not recommending it.


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## carlbarry (Jul 19, 2009)

basham said:


> He probably has not looked at the points chart also, he won't be doing a lot of renting of National Harbor with 308K points.
> 
> If he were my friend, even though he may not follow the advise, I'd feel bad for not recommending it.



I don't think he actually wants to go to National Harbor.  In fact, he really likes to travel once a year to Aruba, but has not been able to get reservations, due to the fact that apparently most places require a Saturday check-in, and he is Sabbath observant, and can not travel/check in on Saturday.


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## zazz (Jul 19, 2009)

Blondie said:


> I have bought most of my timeshares and points on ebay and to my knowledge the resort NEVER knows how or where the resale occurs.



When I last stayed in Williamsburg, the salesweasel thought we were original owners of the points package and his paperwork reflected that.  Maybe HQ has more information on the deed transfer, but I don't know there is any "red alert" that comes up on the screen that says "RESALE" when I call Wyndham to take care of anything.


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## Talent312 (Jul 19, 2009)

carlbarry said:


> [H]e really likes to travel to the Caribbean and Virgin Islands, but has not been able to get reservations, due to the fact that apparently most places require a Saturday check-in, and he is Sabbath observant, and can not travel/check in on Saturday.



So, he's buying even more of _this_ difficult situation.  It boggles the mind.
IME, TS managers are are not particularly adept at tracking when or how particular person acquired their deed.  In 2007, I bought a HGVC TS resale. They sent me a member card that says "member since 2001," the date of the orignal purchase, and their sales peep seem to think that's the case.


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## carlbarry (Jul 19, 2009)

Well, I just spoke to my friend.  He has until tomorrow to rescind, and has not yet received the paperwork he was promised.  He realizes that he has made a mistake.


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## ecwinch (Jul 19, 2009)

carlbarry said:


> Well, I just spoke to my friend.  He has until tomorrow to rescind, and has not yet received the paperwork he was promised.  He realizes that he has made a mistake.



I do not know what "paperwork" you are referring to, but in most states the recession period does not start until you have received a copy of the public offering statement/report AND have signed the purchase contract. 

If he has not received a complete copy of the required documents, his recession period may not have started yet. What state was he in when he signed the purchase contract?

Regardless, if still within the recession period now, he should exercise that option immediately. He can always re-do the deal if after doing all the needed research he decides to move forward. He should stop the ticking clock first though.

He is not "welching" on the deal. He is just exercising his contractual right to obtain more time to do his research. He just as easily can do that same deal in 30 days - regardless of what deal heat the sales guys are pumping.


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## ecwinch (Jul 19, 2009)

PerryM said:


> Maybe Wyndham will be the first timeshare company where resales are worth $0.00, or make history and worth NEGATIVE value - you, the owner, will gladly pay someone to take over the MFs.



Perry - it has been awhile. I would suggest that you already have this point for a large number of WYN properties.



Carolinian said:


> Perry, we often disagree on timeshare issues, but we have the same view of Wyndham, formerly Fairfield.  You could not give me a timeshare at a resort run by these people.  The war they conducted with their owners at Bluebeards Castle in the USVI should give everyone a wakeup call.  They certainly earned the name unFairfield in that fiasco.
> 
> Fortunately, when Fairfield/Wyndham bought out Peppertree/Equivest, the two Peppertree resorts on the Outer Banks had homeowner-controlled HOA's and they promptly kicked out Fairfield/Wyndham as management.



I see this one differently but would like to hear some responses of those with first hand experiences. From the documents I have read, I think by and large the Bluebeards problem was more of Equivest's creating. Does WYN play hardball in court - absolutely? Did they play hardball with Bluebeards - absolutely. 

But in the end they settled. I do not think it is an illustrative example of how WYN runs their resorts. It is an illustrative example of what they will do in a legal battle to protect their interests.

And while I understand things are improving at Bluebeards, even an independent BoD has not completely turned that situation around yet. An independent BoD does not guarantee a well-run resort.


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## carlbarry (Jul 19, 2009)

ecwinch said:


> I do not know what "paperwork" you are referring to, but in most states the recession period does not start until you have received a copy of the public offering statement/report AND have signed the purchase contract.
> 
> If he has not received a complete copy of the required documents, his recession period may not have started yet. What state was he in when he signed the purchase contract?
> 
> ...


He purchased in New Jersey.  And yes, as a lawyer, I do NOT understand how a recession period can end BEFORE the purchaser has seen all the papers!


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## Patri (Jul 19, 2009)

I wouldn't take the chance. I'd get something in the mail tomorrow, and send another after the paperwork arrives.


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## vacationhopeful (Jul 19, 2009)

I agree on MAIL IT TOMORROW.  They will have 5 witnesses and signed forms that they got the paper work.  Atlantic City (Skyline Tower) is one of the most aggressive TS sales crew around ... and with the casinos not doing as well, attendees must be down (or credit not as easy to get with who is sitting thru these presentations).


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## Bill4728 (Jul 20, 2009)

Even if your friend doesn't want to buy resale, it is not a good idea for him to buy any TS which upon buying it, the value of his purchase is reduced by 95%


RESCIND  NOW!!



			
				Carlberry said:
			
		

> They (Wyndham) told him, "Let your friend buy all he wants. We are no longer honoring points purchased on ebay When he calls to use them, we will tell him we do not accept those points." !!!!!!!


Just wanted to make this perfectly clear to a newbie reading this thread. The about statement of the wyndham salesmen *IS A LIE !*

PS I just realized what the statement was about :  Wyndham isn't talking about a week in Wyndham which generates points. They are talking about the rental/transfer of one owners points to another wyndham owner.


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## ecwinch (Jul 20, 2009)

carlbarry said:


> He purchased in New Jersey.  And yes, as a lawyer, I do NOT understand how a recession period can end BEFORE the purchaser has seen all the papers!



In NJ, it is seven days from after receipt of the public offering statement or after execution of the purchase contract, whichever is later.

Typically a purchaser has to sign for the public offering statement. 

Regardless, he should rescind now.


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## John Cummings (Jul 21, 2009)

PerryM said:


> If Wyndham interferes with the normal usage of a deeded timeshare that's against many real estate laws I'd bet.
> 
> However, they can screw around with just about anything else that hasn't to do with the normal process of reserving a deeded week at the home resort.



From my experience that is not true. Wyndham certainly screwed around with the reserving of deeded weeks at one of the resorts I used to own. Wyndham took over the management of the resort 4 or 5 years ago. It is an all floating deeded weeks resort located on the Central California coast. I was an original owner from the day the resort opened over 20 years ago. All weeks were classified as "red" so you could reserve any week during the year.

Owners were allowed to reserve their week(s) 13 months in advance. I always reserved a prime summer week, typically July 4th. I never had any trouble getting what I wanted as long as I reserved at least 8 months in advance. The first year that Wyndham took over, I tried to reserve the July 4th week 12 months in advance and I couldn't get it. In fact I was lucky to get any prime summer week. The next year I called to reserve my week exactly the minute that I was allowed to 13 months in advance. Again there was no July 4th week available. I asked the reservations agent what was going on and why no weeks were available at the moment we were allowed to reserve. In fact I couldn't reserve any summer week. I kept calling back each week and after 4 weeks I was able to get a summer week. I asked again, why no weeks are available. The agent told me that only 2 weeks were released for reservations. Right then I knew that Wyndham was definitely playing games. All the units ( ~200 ) should be available each week when they become eligible to be reserved. Wyndham must have replaced the agents as they were very blunt and quite rude which was completely the opposite of the previous management company.
The net result is, I sold that timeshare later that year.

On the other hand, my other resort where I own, Gaslamp Plaza Suites, is also an all floating deeded weeks VRI resort in downtown San Diego. I have owned it since the day they opened several years ago. VRI has been great to work with. We can reserve any week we want up to 24 months in advance and we do NOT have to prepay the M/F. I have never had any trouble getting the July 4th week which I always use for exchanging. The agents are pleasant and helpful.


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## timeos2 (Jul 21, 2009)

*Get him to recind now or he will regret it*



carlbarry said:


> I don't think he actually wants to go to National Harbor.  In fact, he really likes to travel once a year to Aruba, but has not been able to get reservations, due to the fact that apparently most places require a Saturday check-in, and he is Sabbath observant, and can not travel/check in on Saturday.



He has purchased with a completely false set of assumptions (there is NO WAY that Wyndham can prohibit use or resale of points via eBay or anywhere else as that is the use rights granted to the system).  He is paying 95% or more too much to obtain points. He is buying at the wrong resort UNLESS he only wants to use that one (then why buy points at all?).  If he thinks about it the pluses - passing on to heirs, renting excess, etc - are all standard features of ownership and has nothing to do with resale vs ripoff, er, retail purchase. 

He need to rescind TODAY or he will regret a very poor decision for years to come.


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## carlbarry (Jul 21, 2009)

Well, I spoke to him yesterday, and I don't think he will rescind.  He told me they "upped" the offer to a full year with no interest on the loan.  Now, I don't know what kind of moral person sells a 10 year mortgage for a non-necessity to a 79 year old, but there you are. He realizes that there is a high probability (I'm sure we'd all set that at 100%) that he'll be ripped off, but he seems content with the deal if it goes through as he understands it.


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## timeos2 (Jul 21, 2009)

*Why ask if you know?*



carlbarry said:


> Well, I spoke to him yesterday, and I don't think he will rescind.  He told me they "upped" the offer to a full year with no interest on the loan.  Now, I don't know what kind of moral person sells a 10 year mortgage for a non-necessity to a 79 year old, but there you are. He realizes that there is a high probability (I'm sure we'd all set that at 100%) that he'll be ripped off, but he seems content with the deal if it goes through as he understands it.



You did all you could. Don't you love it when people ask questions, look for advice, want to know what to do then reject it all because they know better? Why do they ask? I assume it's to get their view confirmed and when it isn't they act like they'd been dissed. He'll regret this choice but try not to rub it in - just change the subject if it ever comes up.


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## AwayWeGo (Jul 21, 2009)

*Sometimes The Best We Can Do Is Leave Well Enough Alone.*




carlbarry said:


> Well, I spoke to him yesterday, and I don't think he will rescind.  He told me they "upped" the offer to a full year with no interest on the loan.  Now, I don't know what kind of moral person sells a 10 year mortgage for a non-necessity to a 79 year old, but there you are. He realizes that there is a high probability (I'm sure we'd all set that at 100%) that he'll be ripped off, but he seems content with the deal if it goes through as he understands it.


While a bunch of us timeshare fans were sitting around shmoozing in the lobby of Wyndham Bonnet Creek in Orlando FL 1 evening last January, I met a retired Iowa farmer who was pleased as punch that he had just concluded an Equity Consolidation deal with Wyndham taking his ownership up to 1*,*000*,*000 FairShare Plus timeshare points -- all bought at full freight. 

I said nothing.  No sense raining on the guy's parade. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## carlbarry (Jul 21, 2009)

timeos2 said:


> You did all you could. Don't you love it when people ask questions, look for advice, want to know what to do then reject it all because they know better? Why do they ask? I assume it's to get their view confirmed and when it isn't they act like they'd been dissed. He'll regret this choice but try not to rub it in - just change the subject if it ever comes up.


LOL  I'm a lawyer--it happens all day long.


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## carlbarry (Jul 21, 2009)

AwayWeGo said:


> While a bunch of us timeshare fans were sitting around shmoozing in the lobby of Wyndham Bonnet Creek in Orlando FL 1 evening last January, I met a retired Iowa farmer who was pleased as punch that he had just concluded an Equity Consolidation deal with Wyndham taking his ownership up to 1*,*000*,*000 FairShare Plus timeshare points -- all bought at full freight.
> 
> I said nothing.  No sense raining on the guy's parade.
> 
> ...


Slightly more than the 1 million + points fetched on ebay a couple of weeks ago, $8,555, I'd wager.


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## PerryM (Jul 21, 2009)

John Cummings said:


> From my experience that is not true. Wyndham certainly screwed around with the reserving of deeded weeks at one of the resorts I used to own. Wyndham took over the management of the resort 4 or 5 years ago. It is an all floating deeded weeks resort located on the Central California coast. I was an original owner from the day the resort opened over 20 years ago. All weeks were classified as "red" so you could reserve any week during the year.
> 
> Owners were allowed to reserve their week(s) 13 months in advance. I always reserved a prime summer week, typically July 4th. I never had any trouble getting what I wanted as long as I reserved at least 8 months in advance. The first year that Wyndham took over, I tried to reserve the July 4th week 12 months in advance and I couldn't get it. In fact I was lucky to get any prime summer week. The next year I called to reserve my week exactly the minute that I was allowed to 13 months in advance. Again there was no July 4th week available. I asked the reservations agent what was going on and why no weeks were available at the moment we were allowed to reserve. In fact I couldn't reserve any summer week. I kept calling back each week and after 4 weeks I was able to get a summer week. I asked again, why no weeks are available. The agent told me that only 2 weeks were released for reservations. Right then I knew that Wyndham was definitely playing games. All the units ( ~200 ) should be available each week when they become eligible to be reserved. Wyndham must have replaced the agents as they were very blunt and quite rude which was completely the opposite of the previous management company.
> The net result is, I sold that timeshare later that year.
> ...



So much depends on the state and what does or does not appear on the deed.  All I'm saying is that use of deeded weeks should be spelled out at the time of purchase and that usage is fixed in writing.

ANYTHING else the developer cooks up is theirs and the small print always says they can change it to fit their needs anytime they want.

So if Wyndham wants to limit resales of Points they have every right to do so - the folks participating agreed to that fact.

So I can believe Wyndham interfering with resales of their Points system - its their system.


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## Bill4728 (Jul 21, 2009)

> Originally Posted by Carlberry
> They (Wyndham) told him, "Let your friend buy all he wants. We are no longer honoring points purchased on ebay When he calls to use them, we will tell him we do not accept those points." !!!!!!!



I just realized what the statement was about : Wyndham isn't talking about a week at a  Wyndham resort which generates points. They are talking about the rental/transfer of one owners points to another wyndham owner.

So Wyndham can not tell someone that if they buy their week from a current owner (via ebay or what ever) that they can't use the points from it. BUT wyndham can and does say that you can no longer transfer points from one owner to another owner (via buying points on ebay) 

It just so slimy that the salesmen has twisted the policy to make it sound like you can't buy a Wyndham TS from the current owner, which of course is absolutely a lie!


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## carlbarry (Jul 21, 2009)

Bill4728 said:


> I just realized what the statement was about : Wyndham isn't talking about a week at a  Wyndham resort which generates points. They are talking about the rental/transfer of one owners points to another wyndham owner.
> 
> So Wyndham can not tell someone that if they buy their week from a current owner (via ebay or what ever) that they can't use the points from it. BUT wyndham can and does say that you can no longer transfer points from one owner to another owner (via buying points on ebay)
> 
> It just so slimy that the salesmen has twisted the policy to make it sound like you can't buy a Wyndham TS from the current owner, which of course is absolutely a lie!


Good point!  When confronted with the lie, the salesweasel can say, "I was talking about points _rented_from another member."  But, of course, they are trying to give the impression that points _purchased_, i.e., deeded property/points, will no longer be honored.
The idea that you would rent points on ebay and then call to use them is silly, of course, because the transfer has to be done through Wyndham, with them showing up in your account.  Obviously, Wyndham is no longer doing said transfers.


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## John Cummings (Jul 21, 2009)

PerryM said:


> So much depends on the state and what does or does not appear on the deed.  All I'm saying is that use of deeded weeks should be spelled out at the time of purchase and that usage is fixed in writing.
> 
> ANYTHING else the developer cooks up is theirs and the small print always says they can change it to fit their needs anytime they want.
> 
> ...



Wyndham was not the developer. They took over the management. Glen Ivy was the developer and the deed does spell out everything. This has nothing to with points or anything else other than when they took over, all of sudden there weren't weeks available to be reserved.


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## stognietti (Jul 21, 2009)

I was a VLO for wyndham for a few years. They cannot block you from using the points purchased from a third party. What they will try to do is to keep you from getting the extra stuff they tout as being so valuable, bonus weeks etc which is all huey anyway


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## sandkastle4966 (Jul 21, 2009)

there is little chance of him getting to Aruba.....high demand, little deposited. Wyndham deposits dont pull much aruba....trust me I know,  that is why I now own 3 weeks in Aruba !!!

Rescind, rescind rescind.  that fabulous deal will be available in 3 months after he has thought about it and researched his options.


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## glen4cindy (Jul 28, 2009)

stognietti said:


> I was a VLO for wyndham for a few years. They cannot block you from using the points purchased from a third party. What they will try to do is to keep you from getting the extra stuff they tout as being so valuable, bonus weeks etc which is all huey anyway



What is VLO? I aso saw other abbreviations that I don't understand. Since I am a newbie, where can I get a list of commonly used abbreviations?

Thanks.


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## Goofyhobbie (Jul 28, 2009)

> *glen4Cindy asked:*What is VLO? I aso saw other abbreviations that I don't understand. Since I am a newbie, where can I get a list of commonly used abbreviations?



The poster when using VLO may have been referring to a title such Vacation Loan Officer at Wyndham.

Regarding your question about abbreviations or acronymns there is indeed a list in the TUG advice section. A direct link is provided here:

http://www.tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_glossary.htm


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## mtribe (Aug 4, 2009)

I would say, right there in the sales meeting room.  Plesantly, but loud enough to the heard "are you telling me that if I buy this today and then decide it is not good for me I can not sell it?  I thought you just said it was a deeded week and I can give it to my kids, or sell it or what ever?  Will you please put in writing that I can not use points purchased on ebay!  I would like to send that in to the BOD for clarification.  He will quickly change his tune.


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## carlbarry (Aug 4, 2009)

Good idea!  I'm going to Bonnet Creek for my birthday in September, and if they make me a good enough offer, I'll attend the "owner's update."  I intend to tell them I wouldn't buy from them, as I can buy more points, as I did the 49,000 I own now, on ebay.  It will be fun to hear their response.


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## theo (Aug 4, 2009)

*P.T. Barnum was right...*



carlbarry said:


> ....he seems content with the deal if it goes through as he understands it.



Then by all means allow him him to choose to voluntarily step on his own "appendage"...

There is a sucker born every minute; P.T. Barnum had it right.


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## carlbarry (Aug 5, 2009)

Yes, I spoke to him yesterday.  He again said Wyndham gave him a deal he couldn't refuse: 150,000 points for only $36.  I asked him what the actual cost was.  Again, he answered $36, added to his financing.  I then managed to get out of him that it was actually $36 per month plus $7 MF per month for 10 years.  I then said that for $400 he could have bought the same thing on ebay.  His answer was that he doesn't care, it only costs him $36 (!), and it will be his sister's kid's problem anyway (i.e., when they inherit it and have to keep paying).


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## ecwinch (Aug 5, 2009)

carlbarry said:


> Yes, I spoke to him yesterday.  He again said Wyndham gave him a deal he couldn't refuse: 150,000 points for only $36.  I asked him what the actual cost was.  Again, he answered $36, added to his financing.  I then managed to get out of him that it was actually $36 per month plus $7 MF per month for 10 years.  I then said that for $400 he could have bought the same thing on ebay.  His answer was that he doesn't care, it only costs him $36 (!), and it will be his sister's kid's problem anyway (i.e., when they inherit it and have to keep paying).



Something in the math does not add up - in particular the m/f. That is $84 m/f per year for 150k.

They can sell the pts for whatever they want, but they cannot discount the m/f. Unless it is $70 per month. Then we are more in the ballpark.


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## carlbarry (Aug 6, 2009)

I would imagine that the MF would be low for the new Washington, D.C. Wyndham, but still not _that low.  Unless it's a temporary figure that will go up after the new facility opens._


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## Talent312 (Aug 6, 2009)

theo said:


> There is a sucker born every minute; P.T. Barnum had it right.



Point of Clarification:
Barnum never used that phrase. It was said by a competitor, David Hannum, in reference to the crowds who continued to pay to see Barnum's copy of the "Cardiff Giant," even after it (and Hannum's original) were proven to be fakes. -- See: www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html


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## Jya-Ning (Aug 6, 2009)

carlbarry said:


> Yes, I spoke to him yesterday.  He again said Wyndham gave him a deal he couldn't refuse: 150,000 points for only $36.  I asked him what the actual cost was.  Again, he answered $36, added to his financing.  I then managed to get out of him that it was actually $36 per month plus $7 MF per month for 10 years.  I then said that for $400 he could have bought the same thing on ebay.  His answer was that he doesn't care, it only costs him $36 (!), and *it will be his sister's kid's problem anyway* (i.e., when they inherit it and have to keep paying).



Sounds like he know what he is doing, since even at 36 per month, he pays like 4,000 total.  That is the cheapest 150k I heard from developer purchase.  I will let hime goes unless you want the same deal from his salesman. 

Jya-Ning


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## carlbarry (Aug 6, 2009)

Yes, I didn't look at it that way.  Normally, they'd want $25,000!  All the more reason to suspect there is something wrong with his understanding of the deal.


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## carl2591 (Aug 18, 2009)

a fool and his money are soon parted..  in a year or two this will all come back to him like a ton of bricks.. only then will he understand all you tried to tell him about resale and to resend the deal.. 

guess some have to learn the HARD way.. and he will learn..


my guess is the $36 is MF monthly not the payment.. man this is going to hurt..


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## carlbarry (Aug 18, 2009)

Well, even $36 per month MF for 300,000 points is suspiciously low.


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## Carol C (Aug 19, 2009)

carlbarry said:


> Well, even $36 per month MF for 300,000 points is suspiciously low.



I want that deal! Even for 154K pts at the new Wyn in DC that would be a good deal at $36/mo. But I even doubt that figure, I'm betting it's far fewer pts for $36/mo. He really needs to re-read the contract, but of course by now it would be too late to rescind.

P.S. Somebody from TUG needs to go to a Wyn presentation to get the skinny on the actual range of prices they're asking for the new Wyn in DC. I would sure love to know!


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## carlbarry (Aug 19, 2009)

He had 150,000 points at Atlantic City.  He went to the "owner's update" to get $50 in free chips while in Atlantic City.  He stayed THREE DAYS at the sales pitch (!!!!) until they finally gave him this wonderful deal of transferring to D.C. and getting an additional 150,000 all for only $36 more per month on his financing.


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## kdrew (Sep 19, 2009)

*A little Wyndham history lesson for you all!!!!!!*



ecwinch said:


> Perry - it has been awhile. I would suggest that you already have this point for a large number of WYN properties.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Were the initial problems at the resort due to Wyndham (aka Fairfield)? NO. The problem was very simple - THEY KNEW ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AT THE RESORT YET DECIDED TO LIE TO OWNERS WHICH BACKFIRED WHEN OWNERS GAINED CONTROL OF THE RESORT BOARDS.

Having served on the Board for the entire time of the lawsuit, I can attest to the lengths that Wyndham/FF went through to get what they wanted. In the end, they lost. Did owners get a fair deal? NO. Did Wyndham/FF get off cheaper than they should have? IMHO, yes. That said, a settlement was reached and life moves on.

Look, the issue here was simple - thanks to corporate structure, Wyndham/FF was able to shield themselves via corporate structure to keep Equivest as a separate shell in the game of corporate structure thus limiting the liability. Smart move? You bet. Is it fair? Not a chance but that is our legal, corporate structure in the USA.

Rome was not built in a day. The current Boards are working on "island time" to correct the years of abuse by greedy developers. The situation will continue to get better and already is ongoing.

This all could have ended very differently if Wyndham/FF had come clean to the owners (specifically the owner Boards) and tried to not hide facts but share facts and work towards a solution. They chose to lie and offer significantly less than what was needed to fix the resort in return for a signature that the Boards would not sue them ever. They were found out. 

My opinion is simple - I can guarantee every owner that owns at a Wyndham resort where Wyndham also is the property manager, I can save you money on your yearly maintenance fees with some very simple modes of action. First get owner control of the Board. Second, look at the books. Third, get competitive bids on EVERYTHING! Trust me, nobody is looking out for the best interests of owners out there except owners!

Good luck-

  
*


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## John Cummings (Sep 19, 2009)

PerryM said:


> So much depends on the state and what does or does not appear on the deed.  All I'm saying is that use of deeded weeks should be spelled out at the time of purchase and that usage is fixed in writing.
> 
> ANYTHING else the developer cooks up is theirs and the small print always says they can change it to fit their needs anytime they want.
> 
> ...



I have no idea why you are replying about points. In my case the resort is all floating deeded weeks. I simply said what happened when Wyndham took over the management of the resort.


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