# [ 2010 ] HGVC title question



## jsb15 (Jan 28, 2010)

My wife and I purchased the LV-Karen Ave. property resale and requested title in a revocable trust of which my wife is trustee and I am the successor trustee.  It was recorded in the county as sold to the trust but now HGVC is holding up my transfer telling the title company they wanted it listed in my wife's name, trustee, of the revocable trust.  They expect the title company to correct the deed and resubmit it for recording and HGVC won't talk to me since they don't consider me an owner (but they were happy to take the transfer fee and my 2010 dues).  It seems to me HGVC is wrong here since naming my wife as the owner with her title as trustee might make this timeshare subject to probate in Nevada.  Clearly Nevada had no problem with the deed and recorded it.  It is frustrating that I paid for this in November and now HGVC is delaying my use of the property for no good reason and I can't even argue on my own behalf.  Anyone else title in a revocable trust and have this experience?


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## Talent312 (Jan 29, 2010)

HGBV is well aware that sometimes these trusts are mere shells trying to get cute with personal liability and they want names of the individual(s) they can hold accountable. They also limit open-season reservations to an "individual"  owner. If probate is all you are concerned with, would not a joint deed with right of survivorship work as well?


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## yumdrey (Jan 29, 2010)

Not with HGVC, but I saw similar thing when I bought Four Seasons Aviara. In seller's original deed, "xxx trustee" was an owner, but in account, there were two persons' names. I thought the same thing with Talent312, those big hotel brand name TS know what buyers plan/protect, so they also want their protection just in case. They are getting smart?
By the way, I bought Karen Ave. on November 17, and I already got access to that account a week ago. I am sure your account name issue delay the membership transfer.
Can't you just add your wife's name in the account without recording a new deed? If you have to record a new deed, it would take another month or two.
I would ask closing co. what is the possible fastest way to finish transfer. Hope you find another way other than record a new deed.


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## JM48 (Jan 29, 2010)

I just bought at Karen Ave. as well.

 We are waiting for the closing to be completed....very slow process!

 I got the same doc. we chose joint tenants with survivorship which is what we have on our Sea World deed.

 I think the closing agent should have said something to you , they should know what HGVC requires to keep them "warm & fuzzy".

 JM


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## jsb15 (Jan 29, 2010)

Hilton has the complete trust document so they know the names of trustees as my wife and me as a successor trustee.  We both signed many pages in our own names to make the purchase.  The tax attorney who set up the trust 15 years ago says it is common for trusts to own real estate.  HGVC told me this morning that it is not valid for trusts to own the real estate outright - it is the trustee that owns the real estate.  I'm pretty certain this is just incorrect and plain b.s. but apparently the deed department does not take phone calls.  Maybe HGVC does not want to recognize proper legal title since they lose transfer fees with the death of the original trustees or this has something to do with open season access.  This is an altogether unpleasant experience and I'm not certain the title company (Title Outlet, Inc.) is to blame.


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## jsb15 (Jan 29, 2010)

Also, HGVC had the title information as a revocable trust six weeks ago when it went for ROFR.  They approved of the contract then and are making an issue now that it has already been recorded in Clark County and have to do the final transfer on their end.  They could have brought this issue up a long time ago before it delayed the transfer.


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## kjt (Jan 29, 2010)

*Me Too!*

jsb15, we had a problem with HGVC - similar but not exact.

My parents passed away and I am the successor trustee (except we had a much worse problem because the quit claim deed didn't have the right timeshare lot information on it, but we've finally got that mess straightened out).

It's best to have both of your names on the deed with right of survivorship, rather than as a successor trustee.  The successor trustee has NO RIGHTS to the timeshare other than the responsibility to pay the annual fees (and the extra money to move points to future years as you try to figure the mess out - hopefully before the points expire).

As the successor trustee, they have marked my account in a lockout state and have indicated that no one at HGVC can talk to me about our account except our account representative (but no one told me it was in a lockout state - I guess it's a secret).   This has been an awful process - whenever I called HGVC the rep would get a wierd tone in their voice and tell me they aren't allowed to talk to me about this account and for the longest time I had no idea why. 

After almost 2 years of their uncaring rudeness and unwillingness to help me or my lawyers (who I turned this mess over to, because they left me in tears every time I talked to them) I finally figured out we had an account rep, Brenda, and she is the ONLY ONE we are allowed to talk to about our account.   She FINALLY explained that the timeshare must be in a person's name because if it's in a trust there may be a way for us to close the trust and walk away from the timeshare - sticking HGVC without an owner.  They are basically protecting themselves.  I get it - but why didn't they tell me that a long time ago.  

This has been an awful experience, and is still on-going as I'm still in the process of getting the deed changed to my name.


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## Talent312 (Jan 29, 2010)

kjt said:


> ...She FINALLY explained that the timeshare must be in a person's name because if it's in a trust there may be a way for us to close the trust and walk away from the timeshare - sticking HGVC without an owner...



Eggsactly. The trust is described as being revocable.
Sorry, but I side with Hilton (and other MF-paying TS owners) on this one.


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## kjt (Jan 29, 2010)

Talent312 - I actually agree with them also.  

What I HATE is how I was treated.  I HATE that it took me 2 years to figure out where the heck they were coming from.  I HATE their uncaring attitude and total lack of communication as to what was going on.

I was grieving for my parents (and still am - every single day), and HGVC treated me like I was some type of thief trying to get away with something sneaky.  I've so far paid almost $3k in fees and no one has been able to use the timeshare.


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## Talent312 (Jan 31, 2010)

kjt said:


> What I HATE is how I was treated.  I HATE that it took me 2 years to figure out where the heck they were coming from.  I HATE their uncaring attitude and total lack of communication as to what was going on.... I've so far paid almost $3k in fees and no one has been able to use the timeshare.



I agree that how they dealt with you was incredibly insensitive and arbitrary. "Rules are rules" is no excuse. IMHO, they owe you an apology... like that's ever going to happen. I'd suggest that you give them a piece of your mind, but it wouldn't change anything.


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## jsb15 (Jan 31, 2010)

After reading about your horror story, I am thinking about asking them to change it to joint tenants with rights of survivorship so long as they won't recognize the trust as an owner.  I did speak with someone in the deeds section of HGVC but the statute I was given as Nevada law requiring a trustee to hold title and not a trust did not read that way to me.  Assuming the TS has any value 40 years from now, I was just trying to use a trust I already created to avoid probate in Nevada for this one asset.  If you could avoid MF and tax obligations so easily by dissolving a trust, then all real estate would be held that way.  Without hiring a Nevada real estate attorney, I don't know that I can get HGVC to back down since their non-lawyer is saying  this is a Nevada statute.


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## jsb15 (Jan 31, 2010)

Talent312 said:


> Eggsactly. The trust is described as being revocable.
> Sorry, but I side with Hilton (and other MF-paying TS owners) on this one.



I thought I would share the response from my brother who is a tax attorney when I referred him to the Nevada statute Hilton says requires titling to a trustee and not to a revocable trust:

The statute they cited is clearly inapplicable. They either want transfer fees when someone dies or hope to make the transfer process so painful that your heirs walk away from it. There is ZERO creditor protection from use of a revocable trust; you stay fully liable, so that explanation makes no sense. Make it joint with rights of survivorship. One of you will probably survive me, so probating your estate in Nevada likely won't be my problem. 

I will try again with HGVC tomorrow and if unsuccessful, will do JWROS.  A future warning to all of you who try to choose this very appropriate form of timeshare ownership.


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## Talent312 (Feb 1, 2010)

jsb15 said:


> I thought I would share the response from my brother who is a tax attorney... I will try again with HGVC tomorrow and if unsuccessful, will do JWROS.  A future warning to all of you who try to choose this very appropriate form of timeshare ownership.



Your brother is prob'ly right, but I suspect that HGVC would rather take their guidance from their attorneys (and they likely have a few) than yours. In my experience, knocking one's head against the wall rarely results in a hole in the wall.


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## uscav8r (Jul 24, 2014)

jsb15 said:


> I thought I would share the response from my brother who is a tax attorney when I referred him to the Nevada statute Hilton says requires titling to a trustee and not to a revocable trust:
> 
> The statute they cited is clearly inapplicable. They either want transfer fees when someone dies or hope to make the transfer process so painful that your heirs walk away from it. There is ZERO creditor protection from use of a revocable trust; you stay fully liable, so that explanation makes no sense. Make it joint with rights of survivorship. One of you will probably survive me, so probating your estate in Nevada likely won't be my problem.
> 
> I will try again with HGVC tomorrow and if unsuccessful, will do JWROS.  A future warning to all of you who try to choose this very appropriate form of timeshare ownership.



I realize this is an old thread, but the question/issue posed by the OP is still a valid one, whether the TS in question is HGVC or otherwise. What was the final answer on trust ownership?

Also, I am guessing that guest fees would be levied for anyone not specifically identified on the deed, even if the person was a beneficiary of the trust. Is this correct? Or does it depend on if the original trustor (sp?) is alive or not?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jul 31, 2014)

This is an interesting thread even if it is old.. I am meeting my attorney in a few weeks to update our trust.  One of the topics i wanted to discuss, was our timeshare.  We didn't have one when we created the trust, so their is no mention of it.  I checked paperwork, and i see our Vegas Strip TS is listed as Joint Tenants with Right of Survivorship.   I was thinking maybe i messed that up, but after reading this, sounds more like HGVC is not fond of trusts... Maybe they would not let us take title as the trust, I don't recall..

I do know that when I refinance my house, our new lender made us remove the house from the trust as part of the refi, but then we could move it back into the trust after everything was completed...seemed crazy, but there is lots of crazy stuff when it comes to real estate finance now...

After reading this, i will definetly discuss the TS title with our attorney, but probably more just about the ramifications of leaving it as-is.


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