# Strategizing Starwood Resale and Requalifying with Developer



## roar28 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hi TUG Community! 
I am a newbie here, and I have been reading this Forum for quite a while to get tremendous resources but now it feels like it's time to commit and share with you folks!
My partner and I have been owning a timeshare since 2008 (HGVC) and are really enjoying it, and have been to countless presentations (through RCI Exchange) from different companies (incl. Starwood) since then to get more familiar with the jungle! 

We are now motivated to purchase a Resale from Starwood rather than directly through them (we know how much they charge for instance at WKORS :annoyed and found good ones online available. We are seeking for a good bulk of StarOptions in order to maximize and requalify-re'etro a transaction with a Starwood Developer (let's say Arizona to counteract the MF) with the min. purchase of $20k. I know that many of you don't believe it's a good move to buy at Starwood, but we aim for the Elite level and its perks along with the access to Starpoints in order to travel to EU. Besides, we'd get access to a nice portfolio of properties with what we own at Hilton already. 

Anyway, I know that a resale from a Mandatory property is required in order to do the above. I contacted a broker having something at Westin St-John (Annual/Platinum/2 bdr LO/148k StarOptions) but he said that it was a Phase I unit which are fixed week, fixed units, with the right to float 10 months in advance.

Does it matter if it's a fixed week at this point if we plan to swap it within two months with Starwood at another SVN property? OR do I need to specifically get a Phase II at Westin St-John (Floating week) in order to requalify the resale at Starwood and get all the benefits approved (Elite+Starpoints)?


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## DeniseM (Feb 18, 2014)

> Anyway, I know that a resale from a Mandatory property is required in order to do the above.



*This is not correct *- the resale does NOT have to be at a mandatory property.  In fact, it's better if it isn't, because a mandatory resort is going to cost you a lot more upfront.

*When you requalify:  *You buy a resale deed, and then you requalify it by buying a 2nd deed from Starwood at full price.  After it is requalified, the resale is treated just like a developer purchase, so then you have 2 weeks with all the perks of a developer purchase.  The resale will have Staroptions and Starpoints after it is requalified.

When you buy a resale to requalify, it doesn't have to have to be a mandatory resort.  They best weeks to requalify:
-Will have 148,100 Staroptions *after* requalified
-Have a low upfront cost
-Have a low maintenance fee

WSJ has very high maintenance fees - I would not buy there unless I wanted to go there every year.  

Have you had a chance to read the info. about requalifying in the Starwood Owner Resources sticky at the top of the page?  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138581


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## roar28 (Feb 18, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> *This is not correct *- the resale does NOT have to be at a mandatory property.  In fact, it's better if it isn't, because a mandatory resort is going to cost you a lot more upfront.



If I do not purchase a Resale from a Mandatory Starwood resorts (which are 5 at this date) I will not be able to retro the staroptions from the resale to exchange!...this is exactly what I've been reading on TUG so far. 

When I requalify with Starwood, will I have 2 Maintenance Fees to pay (Resale + New Purchase) or will Starwood "swallow" the Resale's MF to give us a new package with only one Maintenance Fees from that SVN property (Arizona for instance)?


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## DeniseM (Feb 18, 2014)

> If I do not purchase a Resale from a Mandatory Starwood resorts (which are 5 at this date) I will not be able to retro the staroptions from the resale to exchange!...this is exactly what I've been reading on TUG so far.



No - That's not how it works.  When you requalify a resale, you get the Staroptions and Starpoints *back* as part of the deal.  So a voluntary resale will work just as well - even better, because it's a lot cheaper to buy.



> When I requalify with Starwood, will I have 2 Maintenance Fees to pay (Resale + New Purchase) or will Starwood "swallow" the Resale's MF to give us a new package with only one Maintenance Fees from that SVN property (Arizona for instance)?



When you requalify a resale, you own TWO weeks, with TWO maintenance fees:  1 resale + 1 developer purchase.

You will always have a maintenance fee for every deed you own - you never get a break on the maintenance fees.  That's why it's so very expensive to become an Elite Owner.

Please read the the link that I posted above - this is an advanced strategy to learn.


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## czar (Feb 18, 2014)

If it's any help, check out my thread below - I just completed a developer purchase and requaled a Mountain Vista week (voluntary resort), and I now have those 148k SO avaiable to me.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196745


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## Joshadelic (Feb 18, 2014)

You could do something like I did here...

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89765

I have 162,800 annual Staroptions and my total cost was about $10k.


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## roar28 (Feb 18, 2014)

Then the rules must have changed since 2011, as I had based my research on the following TUG-Timeshare-Advice: http://www.tug2.net/timeshare_advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm

It is good news though that I do not need to purchase a resale from a Mandatory property but can do it with a Voluntary one in order to save on MF, but now I realize that it will take more diligent work to go through the entire process! I'll have to make sure to obtain a floating platinum resale as we do not want specifically to go back every year to the same resort (unless we can upgrade afterwards the resale unit with Starwood! )

In that aspect, I can tell that HGVC timeshare is more affordable than Starwood (even when buying directly from the developer). I am not saying it's better but more affordable. :whoopie:

Can you tell me if you have reached the Elite *5 yourself and if you think that Elite *4 is still worth it, because I do not think we'll reach out the 649k staroptions required for Elite *5.


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## okwiater (Feb 18, 2014)

roar28 said:


> Can you tell me if you have reached the Elite *5 yourself and if you think that Elite *4 is still worth it, because I do not think we'll reach out the 649k staroptions required for Elite *5.


The popular wisdom on this board is that Elite is not worth it unless you're going all the way to 5*; however, the only real differences are being part of SPG Platinum (instead of Gold) and checking out at 12pm instead of 10am.

IMO, Platinum isn't a huge value unless you do a lot of international travel, as US hotels generally don't have nearly as impressive "upgrades" or penthouses. I think you'll find that people with Platinum would agree with this statement. The late checkout could be nice in some instances, but in my experience, the housekeeping staff start harassing you pretty early on checkout day anyways, so I see late checkout as nothing more than a nice perk -- certainly not a must-have.

For us, we are considering going to 4* (with a single developer purchase and requal) because that will get us the benefits we care more about: waived Starpoints conversion fee, 10% Starpoints conversion bonus, priority villa check-in (i.e. no more waiting for a room after a long travel day), and Elite waitlist without sacrificing an existing reservation.

When it's all said and done, we'll have spend $25,500 on resale ownerships and $24,600 on our developer purchase, and will have a total of 501,500 StarOptions (1 requalified property, 1 developer purchase, and 1 mandatory resale). The MF/Starpoint ratio is about 1.96 cents -- not great, but certainly less than the points cost by purchasing them outright, and gives us flexibility to stay in timeshare or hotel without penalty.

To each their own!


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## roar28 (Feb 18, 2014)

Thank you all for sharing your strategy and experiences in buying a resale and going then to Starwood to requalify with the developer. I've read all the threads you have shared above, but there is still something that I don't quite grasp here and perhaps someone can clarify it! 
What's the approach of Starwood toward a Mandatory or a Voluntary resale you have purchased when you come up to them to requalify it? 
Again our goal is to accrue Staroptions between "resale + Developer purchase" and not going back to the same resort every year at the same week like many Resale advertise it with a fixed annual week. It's a "No-No" for us; we like to travel around the US and the world and discover new destinations.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 18, 2014)

I think the response to your question (4*, 5*, or none at all?) really depends on your vacation needs and not the needs of others.  IMO (IMO) - it is rarely worth spending the money (now and future) to get to 5* in most cases (note: I said 'rarely' not always) and certainly not worth spending the money for 4* {not that it does not have some benefit - just not worth the $$$}.

This is also true for whether to buy a V or M resort - there are many factors involved here, again based on your needs.  But definitely, if you plan to go the Elite route, buy resale first (as cheaply and with as many SOs as possible), then requal with an EOY (which will cost at least $20) - and try and squeeze as many incentive SPs as possible.

Regardless - make sure whatever is spent is money that can be afford to be lost.

SPG Plats are abundant - just read SPG FlyerTalk.


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## SMHarman (Feb 18, 2014)

roar28 said:


> Then the rules must have changed since 2011, as I had based my research on the following TUG-Timeshare-Advice: http://www.tug2.net/timeshare_advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm
> 
> It is good news though that I do not need to purchase a resale from a Mandatory property but can do it with a Voluntary one in order to save on MF, but now I realize that it will take more diligent work to go through the entire process! I'll have to make sure to obtain a floating platinum resale as we do not want specifically to go back every year to the same resort (unless we can upgrade afterwards the resale unit with Starwood! )
> 
> ...



The rules on that link look about right...

When retroing nothing has to be 'mandatory'.  You can buy a $2k Platinum Plus Desert Oasis (Vol) - if you can find one - and Requal with a Cancun week or EOY (again Vol).    

Or you can buy a WKV Mandatory and requal with another mandatory week.  Likely cost you more though.

With this you need to consider both the up front cost and the exit value.

If you bought the SDO plus WLR weeks and dropped about $22k on those weeks you would now have 296200(even)/148100(odd) points.  However as both those resorts are Voluntary, the resale value is likely under $7500 combined.  So you have truly paid out about $15k (never to see again) for those StarOptions.

If you were not looking for 3/4/5 * and the option to convert to StarPoints etc, you could achieve similar with a resale purchase of a WKV Plat Plus 2Br and WKV Plat Plus 1Br.  That woudl get you 229,100 points every year (so slightly more points) at an upfront of say $17k+$8k.  At the back end (assuming all things are equal) you should be able to sell both those units for a value nearer that than 0 so have suffered less of a loss of capital.

Because of the above, it could be considered beneficial (if you have the cash) to retro mandatory weeks, but it means you have more $ tied up in getting to 5*Elite.

As with all of these, the buy where you want to go (and have a 12 month booking window) will also apply etc.

Also you are talking about saving on MF and purchasing of property.  The MF is only tangentaly linked to the purchase price and MF change over time (look at SDO and SBP MF changes over the last 5 years).  A voluntary week does not necessarily have lower MF and what might be lower today may be higher in a few years time.  Getting to 5* means you will be getting a MF bill of $7500+ every year and need to have the lettuce to pay (and the time to take that 5 weeks vacation) that or an executible plan to rent (and remember the cost of your time to find tennants) to cover all those weeks and those MF.


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## LisaRex (Feb 18, 2014)

roar28 said:


> Then the rules must have changed since 2011, as I had based my research on the following TUG-Timeshare-Advice: http://www.tug2.net/timeshare_advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm



From the article you linked:

"Starwood allows owners of resale units to move their units into SVN, also called “requalifying”, through the purchase of an additional unit directly from Starwood. *The requalified unit will have StarOptions if it did not previously*...

So I'm not sure why you think that the unit you are folding in has to have SOs to begin with.


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## DeniseM (Feb 18, 2014)

Starwood does NOT care if the resale is mandatory or not - their entire motivation is to sell you a 2nd timeshare at *full retail price.*

I think you are confused about this:





> I'll have to make sure to obtain a floating platinum resale as we do not want specifically to go back every year to the same resort



If you are only looking for a resale to requalify, the key point is that the week should have [at least] 148,100 Staroptions after it is requalified.  *Whether the resale week it is floating or fixed has no bearing on the Staroption use.*

Once a resale is requalified, and it has Staroptions, you can use the Staroptions for SVN exchanges into other resorts.  All Staroptions are equal in value - it doesn't matter if you got them from a fixed or floating week.

Have you had a chance to read the Starwood FAQ at the top of the page?


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## tschwa2 (Feb 18, 2014)

You would only need to buy a mandatory resort if you want to use the staroptions before you requalify.  You are looking at the system from the outside.  You may not even like it and think you can go to enough different places.  Maybe you should buy a mandatory resort- get a feel for the system.  If you like it you can continue your quest to attain 4 star or 3 star.


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## SMHarman (Feb 18, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Starwood does NOT care if the resale is mandatory or not - their entire motivation is to sell you a 2nd timeshare at *full retail price.*
> 
> I think you are confused about this:
> 
> ...



Or even shoot for requal of a 196k or more point 3br. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM (Feb 18, 2014)

Based on your first post, it looks like you are interested in buying timeshares to convert to Starpoints.  This can be a good value here and there, but overall - it may be more expensive than just paying for hotels.

Here is an example:  My Maui week is worth 148,100 Staroptions, but only 81,000 Starpoints.  In the 10 years that I have owned it, the maintenance fee has doubled, and hotel rates (Starpoint rates) have increased significantly as well - but I STILL only get 81,000 Starpoints.  That means the *value* of the Starpoints is now less then 50% of what it was when I bought the timeshare 10 years ago....   

If what you really want is Starpoints, a far cheaper alternative is to get a Starwood AMEX and run ALL your monthly bills through the card.  You get one Starpoint for every dollar you spend.  If you pay it off at the end of the month, it's just like using a debit card.

If you got your info. from a sales person, you should forget what he/she told you and start over, and do your own research.  In simplest terms:  they will say ANYTHING to make the sale...


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## roar28 (Feb 18, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Based on your first post, it looks like you are interested in buying timeshares to convert to Starpoints.  This can be a good value here and there, but overall - it may be more expensive than just paying for hotels.
> 
> SVN has got properties that Hilton for instance doesn't have and vice-versa, and we've been already to several SVN properties (Westin and Sheraton) and hotel chains like the W. We feel that Starwood would be a great addition to what we already own at HGVC and besides we have the flexibility of schedule and to vacation when we want since we are business owners. Traveling overseas is costly of course (but what a BLAST!) and we do it once a year while complementing with domestic stays the rest of the year.
> 
> ...


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## DeniseM (Feb 18, 2014)

roar28 said:


> On the long run (30 years) and if the purchase is done well, you spent less in investing in timeshare (*and paying it off ASAP*) than going to hotels each time which are being affected by inflation too (and had my share of bad experiences there already!).



If you have to finance your purchase, then a timeshare is not a good value at all - the financing will eat up any slight edge you might have.  Buying timeshares to become 5 Star Elite is only a good value, if you can pay cash.  If you have to finance it - that's a losing proposition.



> Regarding the MF increase, it seems like this is a trend in highly touristic areas like Hawaii, but might be less in lesser ones.



You should count on the maintenance fee rising steadily on ALL Starwood timeshares - from 2-5% a year.  Starwood gets a % of the maintenance fee, so they have no motivation to keep the maintenance fee low.  That is the real catcher with converting to points:  The maintenance fee WILL go up every year - and your Starpoints never increase, so over time, you are paying more and more, for fewer, and fewer Starpoints.



> I had the Starwood AMEX for a while and used its points but closed the account afterwards. However, you can get more points per dollar spent once you become an Elite at SVN, don't you?



No - 1 Point per dollar, except for charges to Starwood.


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## roar28 (Feb 19, 2014)

I appreciate your help and concern, and I do understand the ins and outs when buying at Starwood and it is something I can afford. 

I believe that owning a timeshare is a life style, and to us vacationing is a necessity. I've got friends who will literally spend all their nice eggs into expensive cars, which we all know become devaluated as soon as you leave the car dealer parking lot! Well, to those who are not happy with their timeshare, then sell it to those like me, who'd be happy to take over a "2nd hand" resale and maximize their purchase.


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## SMHarman (Feb 20, 2014)

Great but unless you regularly travel to Europe on vacation you will be better buying all retail and not aiming for 5* and using those $20k a time x 3 ($60k) for retroing weeks to pay for those European vacations. 

Thats 6, 10k vacations or 10, $6k vacations.  Two $1k flights and 10 nights at $400 a night is a nice European Vacation.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 20, 2014)

Apparently you have convinced yourself (money to burn) - beside someone has to keep the boat afloat.


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## LisaRex (Feb 20, 2014)

roar28 said:


> I believe that owning a timeshare is a life style, and to us vacationing is a necessity. I've got friends who will literally spend all their nice eggs into expensive cars, which we all know become devaluated as soon as you leave the car dealer parking lot!



I think you mean "nest eggs," though I suppose it'd be great if they were nice eggs. Just so you know, timeshares "devaluate" ("depreciate") over time as well.  In fact, it's funny that you bring up the luxury car scenario because in many ways timeshares are just like cars.  They are luxury items that make some people really happy, despite the fact that, almost always, they will lose their value the second you purchase it. (Even on the resale market.)

As a matter of fact, they are treated just like automobile purchases on your taxes.   If you happen to sell one and make money on it (quite rare), you're supposed to claim that gain as income. But for the 99% of owners who sell it a loss, you cannot claim that loss because that IRS views it as a personal asset, NOT a real estate transaction.  

http://www.redweek.com/resources/articles/tax-aspects-selling-timeshare

Now if you buy on the resale market, which is the smart thing to do, you can mitigate that depreciation quite a bit.  But don't fool yourself into believing that you're making a sound financial "investment." You're certainly not. It's extremely rare that 5 years after buying a timeshare, new or used, you'd be able to sell it for anything close to what you bought it for.  For the record, I bought a WKORV-N 2 bdrm platinum OF unit ON THE RESALE market and sold it 7 years later for ~50% what I paid for it.   

However, as long as you buy with your eyes wide open, resist using "fuzzy math" to convince others what a great "investment" you made, and are happy with your choice, then you'll get no criticism from me on purchasing a timeshare.  I love time sharing.


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## dss (Feb 20, 2014)

To further reinforce the point Denise was making. 80k SPG points are worth a fraction of what they were worth a decade ago when they first opened WKORV for sale. Yet maintenance fees have effectively doubled and there is no interest within SVN about offering more SPG points for existing owners. I mentioned this challenge on our first tour (pre-construction at WKORV) and continue to do it at every owners update just to watch the smoke come out of the salesperson's head. And like clockwork, there is this to look forward to every year. Maui was hit hard this time:

http://boardingarea.com/viewfromthewing/2014/02/20/starwood-changing-award-prices-20-hotels/


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

Good catch Lisa! Yes of course I meant nest eggs (typing too fast...) 
When we first purchased our timeshare back in 2008, we knew what we were getting into in terms of finances, but we also knew the quality of vacations we'd be getting...those dreamed locations that have become "home away from home" have convinced us from not withdrawing completely from it.
We have no intention to make any financial margin out of it, but we made a personal investment for the long term for our "well-being"! Working both really hard, going to a nice resort-condo style on vacation, is how we recover from our stressful lives.

Our approach now is to get more "weeks" SO to complete our yearly time-off we can both afford, and we really don't believe in hotel stays except from those belonging to timeshare companies where we can get additional free perks. To give you an example, when we stay at a Hilton hotel, we get complimentary breakfast for 2, complimentary wireless, free room upgrade, late checkout, complimentary access to Executive lounge and fitness center, and we use it all with a big smile on our faces! Just those perks alone would cost you big bucks for a few nights stay out-of-the-pocket.

Again, we want to use Starwood to be complimenting what we already own and we are not running after Elite *5, perhaps after *4 (once I figure it all out) which would mean for us about 4 additional weeks of time-off that we are seeking for anyway. 

From reading your older posts, you all seemed to have made some smart moves with buying resale first and  then requalifying/retroing with Starwood, but you also all seem to be struck by the MFs. If you don't mind me asking, how much are you currently paying now on your MF?


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## SMHarman (Feb 20, 2014)

dss said:


> To further reinforce the point Denise was making. 80k SPG points are worth a fraction of what they were worth a decade ago when they first opened WKORV for sale. Yet maintenance fees have effectively doubled and there is no interest within SVN about offering more SPG points for existing owners. I mentioned this challenge on our first tour (pre-construction at WKORV) and continue to do it at every owners update just to watch the smoke come out of the salesperson's head. And like clockwork, there is this to look forward to every year. Maui was hit hard this time:
> 
> http://boardingarea.com/viewfromthewing/2014/02/20/starwood-changing-award-prices-20-hotels/



This is an annual process and Starwood is pretty open about it.  As the writer states...



> As I understand it hotel categories in the Starwood system are determined based on projected average daily room rates for the year ahead. When rates are expected to drop, categories fall. With rates projected to be higher than they had been projected to be the year before, categories rise.



Interesting to see a lot of the timeshare destinations in there which actually makes the StarOptions more valuable IMHO (not that you can get into Westin Riverfront easily).

For a (excluding high up front cost) your 81k StarPoints in Maui are costing $2100-2300 ish  That is 2.7c a point.

You can buy them with no upfront investment at 3.5c any time.
https://buy.points.com/PointsPartnerFrames/partners/spg/container.html?language=EN&product=BUY
And remember you can buy 20k points for you, your spouse, daughter etc to get to the 80k points then merge them together.
They offer this at a 20% discount at a couple of points in the year.  Thats 2.8c a point, pretty much the same as you convert in Maui with no long term timeshare liability.



roar28 said:


> From reading your older posts, you all seemed to have made some smart moves with buying resale first and requalifying/retroing with Starwood then. I understand that the MF have gone up for most of you but if you don't mind me asking, how much are you currently paying now?



http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205517

http://www.eternaltides.com/SVN/SVNHome.aspx has a crowdsourced queryable database of historic MF.


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205517

http://www.eternaltides.com/SVN/SVNHome.aspx has a crowdsourced queryable database of historic MF.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for sharing that link about most of the SVN MFs properties.

Would anybody know on top of their heads in which W/S properties, it is still possible to go the "Upgrade Round" (with a resale) as of today and/or which ones are completely sold out? 
By the way, we are not interested in WSJ or WKORV where the MFs are too high.


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## SMHarman (Feb 20, 2014)

I know 
Orlando
Cancun
WSJ
are in active sales.

I think
One of the California
Princeville
are in active sales

WKORV (/N) is selling ROFR units they are buying back.
SDO is selling repo units they are buying from the HOA.


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

Is it possible to retro and upgrade 2 resales from the same resort and go to that specific resort to upgrade one of the resale purchased and requalify the 2nd one? Or does each purchase need to be from a different property?


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## SMHarman (Feb 20, 2014)

roar28 said:


> Is it possible to retro and upgrade 2 resales from the same resort and go to that specific resort to upgrade one of the resale purchased and requalify the 2nd one? Or does each purchase need to be from a different property?



I'm going to stop asking why you want to give lots of money to Starwood to get to 4* because you have not really explained why you want to donate money to Starwood for the ability to get StarPoints occasionally.  It's a lot of money to be spending without a clear direction and the 3/4 status does not have a lot of benefits compared to the 20/40k you need to get there.

So, for each ideally 148,100 eligible StarOption property you own and have the deed in your name you can give Starwood $20,000 or more to buy another 148,100 elegible week (say a Cancun EOY Plat+ week).  

Nothing needs to be from any specific resort and pretty much you can buy any week at any resort and finally you can even buy without getting on a plane by dealing direct with Orlando.

If I had this $60k to spend on Starwood Timeshare I would more be considering 
1) Which resorts I would be wanting to stay at (because StarOptions do not easily get you into WSJ in February or WKORV in July)
2) What my travel plans are for the next few years and if I wanted all this capital tied up with Starwood to achieve this.

Do you want weeks at the resorts you can buy into?  Will you travel there, or will you be converting this all to StarPoints?  Like any currency conversion someone will take a commission and here you are converting dollars to StarOptions and StarOptions to StarPoints and maybe StarPoints to AirMiles, that is a lot of exchange commissions.

At the moment you seem to be on a bit of a mission.  This mission, with the time you will need to aquire the weeks you want to retro (where do you want these to be?), will take many months.  Your plan is not something that can happen overnight.  Like any real estate transaction, buying resale takes a while to close.  Take a read of Czars post of his retro into WSJ.  He clearly wanted to own in WSJ so he could book there 12 months out in the season / week he wanted.  He had other weeks that could be retroed with that transaction and thus to get the WSJ week he wanted he then maximised his benefit for the outlay to Starwood with Retro, trade in and plenty of bonus StarPoints.  Similarly read what DavidandRobin has said, his biggest Starwood Investment seems to be his WKORV OF Deluxe week (bought resale) because he wants to use that to look at the sunset for a week every year.  Both those stories have a purchase with a use plan behind it.


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

> SMHarman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to stop asking why you want to give lots of money to Starwood to get to 4* because you have not really explained why you want to donate money to Starwood for the ability to get StarPoints occasionally.  It's a lot of money to be spending without a clear direction and the 3/4 status does not have a lot of benefits compared to the 20/40k you need to get there.
> ...


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## SMHarman (Feb 20, 2014)

On anything worth buying, if you are buying 2014 use then you will be paying that 2014 MF as part of the closing.

$20 to Starwood will get you one retail week and retro on one of your resale weeks.  Don't see how you get not bad considering 3-4 weeks a year from that?


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

> $20 to Starwood will get you one retail week and retro on one of your resale weeks.  Don't see how you get not bad considering 3-4 weeks a year from that?



Again, you are talking in terms of 2bdrms l/o (on paper). If I am buying floating I can convert afterwards SO into 1 bdrm unit redeemable from 44k to 81k a week of vacation at any SVN properties, and if not available for reservation, we are flexible to check-in somewhere else.


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## DeniseM (Feb 20, 2014)

roar28 said:


> If I am buying floating I can convert afterwards SO into 1 bdrm unit redeemable from 44k to 81k a week of vacation at any SVN properties



Just to clarify - it doesn't matter if the resale deed is fixed or floating.  When requalified, BOTH fixed and floating weeks will convert to Staroptions. After they are converted to Staroptions, they trade all the same - it doesn't matter what resort the Staroptions came from.

The key is that the resale(s) you buy to requalify are worth 148,100 Staroptions OR MORE, so you get the most value out of the developer purchase that you have to partner with the resale.


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## SMHarman (Feb 20, 2014)

roar28 said:


> Again, you are talking in terms of 2bdrms l/o (on paper). If I am buying floating I can convert afterwards SO into 1 bdrm unit redeemable from 44k to 81k a week of vacation at any SVN properties, and if not available for reservation, we are flexible to check-in somewhere else.



Ok and you don't need to give Starwood retail money to do that. 

I bought resale a WKV Plat Plus week with 148k of staroptions. I can also turn that into 3, 44k weeks of use.  

Hopefully when I am done I can get a good chunk of the WKV purchase price back. 

If I wanted another 148k I would consider another similar purchase or a purchase resale at WSJ rather than go to the developer. 

If all you want is mandatory StarOptions then but then on the secondary market. 

If you take into account the cost of capital tied up and MF then converting to starpoints is super bad value. Cash rates and putting your daily spend through the amex Starwood card is a better way to achieve hotel stays. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM (Feb 20, 2014)

SMHarman is right on the money...


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Just to clarify - it doesn't matter if the resale deed is fixed or floating.  When requalified, BOTH fixed and floating weeks will convert to Staroptions. After they are converted to Staroptions, they trade all the same - it doesn't matter what resort the Staroptions came from.



Absolutely! What I meant is that once I am ready to requalify with the developer, I want to make sure that I am not upgrading my resale into a fixed week, because I believe this is still available at SVN, unless they got rid of them completely? 



> The key is that the resale(s) you buy to requalify are worth 148,100 Staroptions OR MORE, so you get the most value out of the developer purchase that you have to partner with the resale.



If I buy two resales at 148k SO each, but would like to go the "Upgrade" round with one of them, I need to make sure the Developer has something avail to upgrade into. For instance, SDO, which has got amazing low MF for both 2bdrms and 1 bdrm will not give you more than 148k. So, I'd have to purchase a resale that is less in order to get to 148k on the upgrade (if available in the inventory), which in total would still rack me in 296,200 SO (2 resales+upgrade).


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## DeniseM (Feb 20, 2014)

I'm sorry, but you still do not understand this process:

This is a simplified example of how it works:

1.  Buy a Platinum 2 bdm. resale at SDO with no Staroptions or Starpoints.

2.  Buy a full-priced developer purchase at Lagunamar with 148,100 Staroptions.

3.  Then, Starwood will add Staroptions (148,100) and Starpoints to the SDO week -* but the underlying deeded week does NOT change.* 

4.  You now own two weeks, with all the perks of the SVN, including Starpoints, and Staroptions.  

a)  Lagunamar - 148, 100 Staroptions
b)  SDO - 148,100 Staroptions


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> I'm sorry, but you still do not understand this process:
> 
> This is a simplified example of how it works:
> 
> ...



This way is more expensive due to the full price at WLO. I was asking above about the Upgrade process which requires a retail difference of $10k between the resale original value and the retail price of the final upgrade. Many of you have gone that round!


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## DeniseM (Feb 20, 2014)

roar28 said:


> This way is more expensive due to the full price at WLO. I was asking above about the Upgrade process which requires a retail difference of $10k between the resale original value and the retail price of the final upgrade. Many of you have gone that round!



I give up   - that is not what we have been talking about, and it is not what you said in your first post at all:



> We are seeking for a good bulk of StarOptions in order to maximize and *requalify-re'etro a transaction with a Starwood Developer* (let's say Arizona to counteract the MF) with the min. purchase of $20k.


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## Markus (Feb 20, 2014)

Lagunamar is now almost sold out,there are no more Plat Plus weeks available, only gold plus weeks. The California property in active sales is Desert Willow.


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> I give up   - that is not what we have been talking about, and it is not what you said in your first post at all:



I am sorry DeniseM!  I should have mentioned that in the course of our conversation thread, and with your help, I discovered that there was the option of upgrading from a resale with the developer, which seemed to be more affordable than the full price from the developer http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138581


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## DeniseM (Feb 20, 2014)

My last word - In my opinion, if you can't afford to do the "requalfying" route and pay cash, then you should just buy mandatory weeks on the resale market.  Peace out


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> My last word - In my opinion, if you can't afford to do the "requalfying" route and pay cash, then you should just buy mandatory weeks on the resale market.  Peace out



Thanks DeniseM for your help - I really appreciate it!


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## YYJMSP (Feb 20, 2014)

roar28 said:


> I do not need necessarily to stay at the resort I'd buy into - just looking at low MFs at one resort, so floating works perfectly fine for us and no need to convert it all to SP. Not all the SPG properties require 30k SP for a free night. Check out their chart and you'll see that some asking barely for 10k per night.



the quality of the hotels that require less than 10k/nt are a far cry from the quality of most SVN properties.  I would suggest you compare it to (at least) 12-16k/nt hotel properties.

it also matters what SVN property and season you buy if you want to convert to SPG points, as the conversion rate varies very dramatically between SVN properties...


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## Ken555 (Feb 20, 2014)

Buy WKV platinum 2-bed resale. Repeat until you have enough StarOptions. Done.

Or, give SVN your money for the privilege of converting to StarPoints. Based on what you've posted, I doubt that's worthwhile.


Sent from my iPad


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## SMHarman (Feb 20, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> Buy WKV platinum 2-bed resale. Repeat until you have enough StarOptions. Done.
> 
> Or, give SVN your money for the privilege of converting to StarPoints. Based on what you've posted, I doubt that's worthwhile.
> 
> ...



It's posts like this that make me wish tug had a like function. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## tschwa2 (Feb 20, 2014)

At one point, I think you may have been able to requalify one week while paying $10,000 to upgrade another.  I don't think that is still the case.  In order to re-qualify one you have to spend $20,000.  It may still work if you are paying $20,000 to upgrade one unit so in the end you now have 2 units fully qualified in SVN.

You would probably want to meet with a salesperson and get it in writing because you probably don't want to buy 2 voluntary resorts and find out you would have to make a new purchase (not just an upgrade) and then you still could only retro one. 

Also when you are upgrading if you didn't buy from Starwood I think they only credit you 80% of what was originally paid but that may also have changed.  They don't take everything for upgrade.  If they don't want what you have even if you are willing to pay the extra $20,000 they may not want it.  

You probably want to work on finding a good corporate agent to work with and even then you may want to use this board to sound out what they are saying because I think you are still missing some of the pieces.


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

tschwa2 said:


> At one point, I think you may have been able to requalify one week while paying $10,000 to upgrade another.  I don't think that is still the case.  In order to re-qualify one you have to spend $20,000.  It may still work if you are paying $20,000 to upgrade one unit so in the end you now have 2 units fully qualified in SVN.
> 
> You would probably want to meet with a salesperson and get it in writing because you probably don't want to buy 2 voluntary resorts and find out you would have to make a new purchase (not just an upgrade) and then you still could only retro one.
> 
> ...



Good piece of advice, I appreciate. We are going to be looking into a 2 bdrms/148,100 pts resale to be requalified into Starwood while taking into consideration the MFs and SP convertion chart for each resort. We have narrowed down to 6 resorts we'd like to requalify with, and will start seeking for a sales rep. to see what we can come up with. 
Has anybody seen an updated retail price list of SVN properties lately, or is it always negotiable as long as the $20k are involved and the sales rep is willing to work along the silver lining?


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## SMHarman (Feb 20, 2014)

roar28 said:


> Good piece of advice, I appreciate. We are going to be looking into a 2 bdrms/148,100 pts resale to be requalified into Starwood while taking into consideration the MFs and SP convertion chart for each resort. We have narrowed down to 6 resorts we'd like to requalify with, and will start seeking for a sales rep. to see what we can come up with.
> Has anybody seen an updated retail price list of SVN properties lately, or is it always negotiable as long as the $20k are involved and the sales rep is willing to work along the silver lining?


I understand the $20k to be the non negotiable number.  So if you decided to requal with say a $37k WLR Plat Plus week you could use another week they wanted for trade in to chip up to $17k off that but that is it.  If you somehow found a week that would somehow offer $18k trade in then you are SOL and can't use part of that it is again an all or nothing thing.

I also understand that Starwood are firm on their retail pricing, the movement is on the padding, how many bonus star options they will give you, coupon books etc.

Finally as you are going for the grand slam then you should also consider an explorer package and then taking that vacation and using the explorer package credit as part of your payment.  I believe that the explorer package credit can be part of the $20k.


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## roar28 (Feb 20, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> I understand the $20k to be the non negotiable number.  So if you decided to requal with say a $37k WLR Plat Plus week you could use another week they wanted for trade in to chip up to $17k off that but that is it.  If you somehow found a week that would somehow offer $18k trade in then you are SOL and can't use part of that it is again an all or nothing thing.



The other week you are talking about to chip up the "17k" in your example would be a potential week that can be upgraded, right?


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## SMHarman (Feb 21, 2014)

roar28 said:


> The other week you are talking about to chip up the "17k" in your example would be a potential week that can be upgraded, right?



Upgraded is not a word to use here it is confusing. 

The trifecta would be. 

1.  The week you are retroing back into the SVN network.   You will keep this deed nothing changes but a flag in the SVN computer. 
2.  A trade in week. You will return this deed to Starwood. They give a financial credit for it. 
3.  Explorer package. You get a free 5 day vacation as the $ spent on the package get credited to your purchase. 

In return get a deed on the week you are buying. 

You also need to write that $20k check. 

But first why not buy a WKV Plat Plus week and take those Staroptions for a Test drive. 


Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## roar28 (Feb 21, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> Upgraded is not a word to use here it is confusing.



I am working on getting familiar with all the Starwood's jargon and wrap my head around this, as it's the very first time I am doing this.  I was referring to SDKath post (mentioning the "upgrade") also used as a reference at the top of this thread: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138581
It's dated as 2008 so I am sure things must have changed since then.



> 2.  A trade in week. You will return this deed to Starwood. They give a financial credit for it.


This resale must still come from an SVN Property in Active Sale, correct? 



> You also need to write that $20k check.



That is fine - as you said before, I want to get the most out of my bucks and not donate money to Starwood! 



> But first why not buy a WKV Plat Plus week and take those Staroptions for a Test drive.



Good point - I'll probably contact also the Sales Dpt at WKV to check if a sales rep would be up for a requalify/retro transaction...unless this is no longer an Active Sale Property...

When all that is done, do I get as well an Official TUG Certificate of Completion to hang on my wall?...just kidding here...


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 21, 2014)

roar28 said:


> ....
> When all that is done, do I get as well an Official TUG Certificate of Completion to hang on my wall?...just kidding here...



We here on TUG recommend MONTHS of ACTIVE reading and asking questions before you BUY anything.

WHY?
A) It is far easier to buy a timeshare than it is to sell it.
B) With knowledge and experience, your priorities WILL be vastly different in how you look at timesharing and those vacations - esp after the first 3 TS vacations.
C) What you think will work usually is not the same as YOUR SPOUSE's idea.
D) Family makeup and vacation styles change due to your age, income and various family members - your parents, kids, in-laws, employers.


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## SMHarman (Feb 21, 2014)

^ and if you are talking 4* with Starwood that is 15 plus weeks of 44k SO vacations.  Do you have the time to take that much vacation?  Do you want all that vacation to be at SVN properties?


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## Ken555 (Feb 21, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> We here on TUG recommend MONTHS of ACTIVE reading and asking questions before you BUY anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great advice. And, this is why I rented a few timeshares before buying - and those visits and associated research definitely changed my approach. It's always fairly clear when someone is running when they should be walking...


Sent from my iPad


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## roar28 (Feb 21, 2014)

vacationhopeful said:


> We here on TUG recommend MONTHS of ACTIVE reading and asking questions before you BUY anything.
> 
> WHY?
> A) It is far easier to buy a timeshare than it is to sell it.
> ...



Thanks for your input! 
In the past two years my spouse and I have spent an entire week at WKORV and SDO and we've loved the SVN amenities and would love discovering some more. We went both times to a presentation but were not appealed by the retail price they were asking for it . 
We didn't know anything about resale either. After doing some research online, finding TUG...and now the timing is right for us to go that route. 
I've been asking so far what must seem second nature for you experts in the field because I do not want to buy something we'll be unhappy about it down the road. 
I've noticed as well that each one of you has had a different experience while some other posts were quite dated.


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## roar28 (Feb 24, 2014)

*Updates on requalifying at Starwood!*

I talked today on the phone to two sales reps and one Sales Mngr from two different SVN properties, and all confirmed with me (or this is how far I could  dig in) that the minimum spending to requalify a unit is $20,000 toward a full purchase (whether EY or EOY), BUT that they have changed the rules and do not take anymore "trade-in" Resales toward the full purchase, since Starwood considers it low inventory. 
Starwood still honors the requalifying purchase toward Elite status but this may not last for a very long time.


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## capjak (Feb 25, 2014)

roar28 said:


> I talked today on the phone to two sales reps and one Sales Mngr from two different SVN properties, and all confirmed with me (or this is how far I could  dig in) that the minimum spending to requalify a unit is $20,000 toward a full purchase (whether EY or EOY), BUT that they have changed the rules and do not take anymore "trade-in" Resales toward the full purchase, since Starwood considers it low inventory.
> Starwood still honors the requalifying purchase toward Elite status but this may not last for a very long time.



Last week I was at WKORV-North and took the tour they offered to allow me to trade in my Sheraton Vistana Villages at 80% of the original buyers purchase (I bought resale) which was 18,800 toward the purchase of a WSJ unit at 51K minus the 18.8K credit.  So they will credit you toward a purchase, of course this could be specific to WSJ new phase they are selling from Maui.


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## SMHarman (Feb 25, 2014)

roar28 said:


> I talked today on the phone to two sales reps and one Sales Mngr from two different SVN properties, and all confirmed with me (or this is how far I could  dig in) that the minimum spending to requalify a unit is $20,000 toward a full purchase (whether EY or EOY), BUT that they have changed the rules and do not take anymore "trade-in" Resales toward the full purchase, since Starwood considers it low inventory.
> Starwood still honors the requalifying purchase toward Elite status but this may not last for a very long time.



So a salesman was not offering all the goods at the first contact, well there is a shocker.

Remember how you tell a salesperson is lying?

Czar just did this, the full trifecta,

Bought at WSJ, traded in TWO SVV Orlando weeks, Retroed SMV and used the Explorer Package credit against the transaction and was given 120k StarPoints for his troubles.

See Post 30 of this thread.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196745&page=2

Now that might have been because he was buying at WSJ and that is where they have the good deals right now to start moving new inventory.  That was less than 3 months ago so I find it unlikely such a deal is off the table.


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## roar28 (Feb 25, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> So a salesman was not offering all the goods at the first contact, well there is a shocker.
> 
> Remember how you tell a salesperson is lying?
> 
> ...


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## Beacon888 (Feb 26, 2014)

*Staroption Database*

Is there a database giving information of how many Staroptions you would get if your unit is requalified. I've read the thread about buying and requalifying. I own SDO 2 Bedroom Lockoff Floating 1-52

Thanks in advance for your help


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## DeniseM (Feb 26, 2014)

Beacon888 said:


> Is there a database giving information of how many Staroptions you would get if your unit is requalified. I've read the thread about buying and requalifying. I own SDO 2 Bedroom Lockoff Floating 1-52
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help



A 1-52 floating SDO deed (Gold Plus) does not get 148,100 Staroptions, so it is not considered a good week to requalify (but the Plat week does.)


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## tschwa2 (Feb 26, 2014)

Beacon888 said:


> Is there a database giving information of how many Staroptions you would get if your unit is requalified. I've read the thread about buying and requalifying. I own SDO 2 Bedroom Lockoff Floating 1-52
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help



A 1-52 SDO is considered gold plus and would get 81,000 if requalified.  As Denise said it would be better to find a platinum to requalify if you are going to make a retail purchase.


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## SMHarman (Feb 26, 2014)

Beacon888 said:


> Is there a database giving information of how many Staroptions you would get if your unit is requalified. I've read the thread about buying and requalifying. I own SDO 2 Bedroom Lockoff Floating 1-52
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help



http://www.tug2.net/advice/StarPoint.xls


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## SMHarman (Feb 26, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> A 1-52 floating SDO deed (Gold Plus) does not get 148,100 Staroptions, so it is not considered a good week to requalify (but the Plat week does.)



But there are only 17 Units sold with Platinum weeks
1064	1072	1082	1084	1086	1088	1090	1092	1094	1096	1098	1100	2064	2066	2068	2070	2072

and 24 weeks sold as Platinum 1-21 and 50-52.  And some of these were sold as 1Br not 2Br

So there is a maximum of 408 VOIs that you could pick up here that could requl as Plat+.  I'm sure if you did a straw poll on this site you could find the owners of 20+% of those as they have picked them up with the intent to (or have) Requaled them.

To an extent the requal SDO party is over and finding a SMV or WLR or Cali Plat+ week to Requal is the new gig in town.


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## pathways25 (Feb 26, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> But there are only 17 Units sold with Platinum weeks
> 1064	1072	1082	1084	1086	1088	1090	1092	1094	1096	1098	1100	2064	2066	2068	2070	2072
> 
> and 24 weeks sold as Platinum 1-21 and 50-52.  And some of these were sold as 1Br not 2Br
> ...




I did an analysis of the Platinum 3-season deeds available and I believe there are about 250 annual 2BR 3-season Platinum deeds in existance, total.  All of the other 3-season units were sold either as 1BR or as EOYs.

I'll bet that TUG members own at least 20% of them.


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## grgs (Feb 26, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> I'm sure if you did a straw poll on this site you could find the owners of 20+% of those as they have picked them up with the intent to (or have) Requaled them.





pathways25 said:


> I did an analysis of the Platinum 3-season deeds available and I believe there are about 250 annual 2BR 3-season Platinum deeds in existance, total.  All of the other 3-season units were sold either as 1BR or as EOYs.
> 
> I'll bet that TUG members own at least 20% of them.



Oooh, let's see if we can find out.  I own one 2-bedroom plat SDO unit.  Anyone else?

Glorian


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## DeniseM (Feb 26, 2014)

Psssttt... Glorian - there is a poll at the top [now]...


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## DeniseM (Feb 26, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> But there are only 17 Units sold with Platinum weeks



I'm not saying he needs to look for a Plat SDO week, I'm saying he *shouldn't* requalify the Gold Plus week that *he has now*...


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## SMHarman (Feb 26, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Psssttt... Glorian - there is a poll at the top...



Psst, his response got me to set it up.


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## DeniseM (Feb 26, 2014)

Glorian is a HE????


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## SMHarman (Feb 26, 2014)

DeniseM said:


> Glorian is a HE????



Embarrassed


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## grgs (Feb 26, 2014)

SMHarman said:


> Embarrassed



That's ok, but for the record I am a she.


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