# Aggressive Sales at Coconut Plantation



## lizap (Dec 27, 2017)

We have visited a lot of TS resorts, but I must say, our experience with HCP was unlike anything we've ever experienced. Received not one, but two calls pre-visit trying to get us to attend sales presentation. Was told that there had been some changes that existing owners needed to be aware of and that since the program was so popular, needed to make the appointment pre-visit. We didnt. After arrival, one of the "concierges" escorted me to her desk and ....., I decline.  Again, one day I was in the lobby, she tries to get me to sign up again; I decline. On three separate days, the phone in the room rings; we do not answer as we strongly suspect who it is. I must say I have NEVER seen anything like this, and we have visited many TS resorts. This tells me they are having major trouble getting inventory for HPP..AND they are putting big-time pressure on the poor sales people to produce.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Dec 27, 2017)

lizap said:


> We have visited a lot of TS resorts, but I must say, our experience with HCP was unlike anything we've ever experienced. Received not one, but two calls pre-visit trying to get us to attend sales presentation. Was told that there had been some changes that existing owners needed to be aware of and that since the program was so popular, needed to make the appointment pre-visit. We didnt. After arrival, one of the "concierges" escorted me to her desk and ....., I decline.  Again, one day I was in the lobby, she tries to get me to sign up again; I decline. On three separate days, the phone in the room rings; we do not answer as we strongly suspect who it is. I must say I have NEVER seen anything like this, and we have visited many TS resorts. This tells me they are having major trouble getting inventory for HPP..AND they are putting big-time pressure on the poor sales people to produce.


They will have the most inventory in HPP with all the new development there which may be why. We go to Sunset Harbor in Jan but will also avoid any presentations.


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## Kal (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks for the update.  It's sad that Hyatt has fallen into the old school of hucksterism.  Of course they have a new program to try to sell, and all indications confirm it's not going well.  For me, I can't wait to have that "update" and maintain an image of a willing buyer.  It would be a huge sporting event to play with the newbie hucksters then take on their manager "hot lamp" specialist.  The downside of a successful sporting event is them being absolutely convinced a big sale is in hand, then the dive to earth without a parachute!


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## dahntahn (Jan 6, 2018)

Kal said:


> Thanks for the update.  It's sad that Hyatt has fallen into the old school of hucksterism.  Of course they have a new program to try to sell, and all indications confirm it's not going well.  For me, I can't wait to have that "update" and maintain an image of a willing buyer.  It would be a huge sporting event to play with the newbie hucksters then take on their manager "hot lamp" specialist.  The downside of a successful sporting event is them being absolutely convinced a big sale is in hand, then the dive to earth without a parachute!



Interesting phone call today from guest relations at Coconut Plantation where we will arrive Jan. 13 for a week, which is our owned week.  Ostensibly the purpose was to inquire if we had any special requests for our stay, but it was immediately obvious that the call was to sign us up for our "preferential owner presentation"of the new points plan.  For a bribe of a $100 credit to be used in the CP resort or the Hyatt hotel nearby, we would listen to a 60 minute presentation at the sales center on the property.  The pitch was that as owners we would have a guaranteed reservation for this at a time that suited us, rather than signing up at arrival when the openings would be "quite limited"due to the popularity of signing up in advance.  [HAH]

We have been coming to CP in the week 2 we own [bought resale on Ebay for $2500] for at least 5 years and have never received any such call in advance.  We did go to the same presentation last year but the salesperson was woefully uninformed and the plan was still nebulous.  We will go again now to see if we can learn anything useful for Tuggers, and it will be fun to tweak the salesperson.  Plus we will use the $100 credit.  Looks like Hyatt is putting on the full court press, likely due to poor sales results.  Will report back afterward.


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## pedro47 (Jan 6, 2018)

concierge was chasing you down because they are paid a commission for ever presentation they schedule and an extra incentive for every couple/person that attend the sales presentation.


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## lizap (Jan 6, 2018)

pedro47 said:


> concierge was chasing you down because they are paid a commission for ever presentation they schedule and an extra incentive for every couple/person that attend the sales presentation.



I knew this. What was very unusual was the level of aggressiveness..


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## Kal (Jan 6, 2018)

Their paycheck probably has multiple levels of commissions....
- Agreeing to attend presentation
- Attendance at a presentation
- Purchase of something
- Purchase of something BIG

They might not realize that aggressive behavior could have negative consequences.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 6, 2018)

Thanks, dahntahn. Looking forward to your review of your thrilling presentation. I do hope you can squeeze in as the sales showroom is likely to be packed with eager buyers!


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## Bob B (Jan 6, 2018)

Are they looking just to convert people to points or are they actually building more units at Coconut Plantation?


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## lizap (Jan 6, 2018)

Bob B said:


> Are they looking just to convert people to points or are they actually building more units at Coconut Plantation?



They are currently building the fourth building. I assume it will all be HPP. They are very aggressively trying to get HRC owners to convert to HPP as well.


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## bizaro86 (Jan 6, 2018)

If someone ever says that, the logical response is "in that case I'll be happy to leave the last few spots for other folks"

Or,

"I'm glad to hear spaces are filling up, maybe you'll quit bothering me then."

Of course, there's always the classic, and my personal favourite.

"No." Followed by walking away/hanging up.


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## dahntahn (Jan 17, 2018)

bizaro86 said:


> If someone ever says that, the logical response is "in that case I'll be happy to leave the last few spots for other folks"
> 
> Or,
> 
> ...





bizaro86 said:


> If someone ever says that, the logical response is "in that case I'll be happy to leave the last few spots for other folks"
> 
> Or,
> 
> ...



Attended sales pitch today at Coconut Plantation.  They are attempting to sell opportunity to convert one or all of owned resale weeks of HRC to HPC status (HPC=Hyatt Points Club).  This would allow owner on a yearly basis to choose to book his points in either program. Buy in cost offered us was 840 new points at $20 per point plus maintenance fee of .84 per point for the first year, or total of $ 17,500.  This would convert 2 of our owned weeks.  We declined.  During presentation we were told something BIG was going to change on Jan 29, so we should buy before then.  I got the impression this might be some kind of merger of affiliation with another timeshare co.?  They were very coy about that.

After we said no a second time to the closer, we were offered a new plan called Access, which would keep the door open to convert a week (or more) for two years on the same terms as today, for a one time cost today of $2300 plus $200 in tax and fees.  If you do convert sometime in that 2 year window, the $2300 will be applied to the cost of doing so.  For this you get a free 7 day stay in a one BR at any of the following HRC properties: Sedona, Windward Pointe, Coconut Plantation,  Highlands Inn, Wild Oak; good any season for up to 2 years, plus 84,000 World of Hyatt points good for lifetime and can be used at any Hyatt Hotel or at HRC properties, plus 2 years of Leisure Time Passport which apparently can be used to book last minute stays at very low cost.  ( I have no knowledge of the latter.). The WOH points can also be converted to airline miles.

Takeaways:  1. Something is going to happen on Jan. 29 which may or may not affect us legacy owners.
2.  Pure HPP owners will NOT have access to the legacy system except when a legacy owner who has converted his week decides in any given year to access the HPC system, relinquishing his HRC points only for that year, a possibility of very low probability since the HPC trust has very little inventory as yet.  I asked all three of the sales people this question and all gave the same answer.  This made me much relieved, as there has been some different reporting on this forum.
3.  The existence of the " Access" program tells me that they are NOT being successful in selling this conversion idea, else they would not offer a reasonably incentivized plan allowing people to delay making a decision.
The sales people were pleasant and not pushy, but they did take too long to make the pitch.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 17, 2018)

Great report, dahntahn. Thank you. My thoughts from what you shared:

As we've discussed on these boards for some time now, I agree with your assessment that the HRP/HPC/HPP (whatever we're going to call it!) is going down in flames. There just isn't enough value for a fairly large investment to have it make sense for legacy (HRC) owners. I agree with your assessment of the existence of the Access program; the sales weasels are desperate to sell anything in order to keep the patient breathing--but the patient is definitely on life support.
I've consistently posited that the HRC trust is separate and distinct from the Points trust, which means owners in the Points trust cannot access the HRC inventory with the exception you noted, when an HRC owner voluntarily relinquishes his/her week in any given year. 
What's great is that HRC owners _*can*_ access the Points inventory for the foreseeable future--a benefit none of us would have anticipated but which is likely the result of having far too few Points owners in the Points pool. ILG/Hyatt bought too many ROFR'd weeks last year when they were trying to build the Points inventory, and since sales of the HPC are so slow, they now have to rely on HRC owners to soak up the inventory.
Whatever the BIG announcement is on 29 January...well, let's just say I am not going to circle the date on my calendar. If it was a merger, there's no way the sales weasels would be privy to it two weeks in advance. It could possibly be some kind of affiliation enhancement, but I doubt it will be anything earth-shattering or which will fundamentally change the value equation for either HPC or HRC.
In any case, thanks for shedding more light on this whole thing.


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## heathpack (Jan 17, 2018)

Thanks for the report @dahntahn


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## lizap (Jan 17, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> Great report, dahntahn. Thank you. My thoughts from what you shared:
> 
> As we've discussed on these boards for some time now, I agree with your assessment that the HRP/HPC/HPP (whatever we're going to call it!) is going down in flames. There just isn't enough value for a fairly large investment to have it make sense for legacy (HRC) owners. I agree with your assessment of the existence of the Access program; the sales weasels are desperate to sell anything in order to keep the patient breathing--but the patient is definitely on life support.
> I've consistently posited that the HRC trust is separate and distinct from the Points trust, which means owners in the Points trust cannot access the HRC inventory with the exception you noted, when an HRC owner voluntarily relinquishes his/her week in any given year.
> ...



Completely agree. What's interesting is we can access HPC inventory, but HPC owners can't access HRC, unless we give up our units. I'm wondering if the announcement might be what I had originally heard: that HRC owners will be allowed to convert to HPC on a yearly basis for a reasonable fee.


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## bdh (Jan 21, 2018)

dahntahn said:


> Pure HPP owners will NOT have access to the legacy system except when a legacy owner who has converted his week decides in any given year to access the HPC system, relinquishing his HRC points only for that year, a possibility of very low probability since the HPC trust has very little inventory as yet.  I asked all three of the sales people this question and all gave the same answer.  This made me much relieved, as there has been some different reporting on this forum.





WalnutBaron said:


> I've consistently posted that the HRC trust is separate and distinct from the Points trust, which means owners in the Points trust cannot access the HRC inventory with the exception you noted, when an HRC owner voluntarily relinquishes his/her week in any given year.





lizap said:


> Completely agree. What's interesting is we can access HPC inventory, but HPC owners can't access HRC, unless we give up our units.



There's no doubt that HRC and HPP are different and separate systems/ownership - however there's a question how long the inventory of units stay separate.  Hyatt sales staff have said that HPP owners only have access to HRC week/units when a HRC owner converts their legacy week to the HPP system on a yearly basis.  The Go Hyatt staff have said HPP owners have instant access to HRC week/units when a HRC owner's legacy week is no longer HRPP.

If using the sales staff version, a HRC owned week will seldom be available to HPP owners.  If using the Go Hyatt staff version, every HRC unit that is not reserved as the deeded week/unit becomes available to HPP owners (ie: when a HRPP week automatically or manually moves to CUP).  There is a BIG difference between the two versions - it would be better for legacy HRC owners if the sales staff version is correct than if the Go Hyatt version is correct.  I realize that if the sales staff used the Go Hyatt version, it would motivate more HRC owners to buy into HPP, however when you combine TS salesman's historically questionable statements with the Go Hyatt staff historically accurate information, I'm inclined to think the Go Hyatt version is correct.   

And yes, I hope my inclination is WRONG!  However, its hard to imagine that Hyatt created a new program to sell TS and that system is more advantageous to HRC owners than to HPP owners by providing HRC access to HPP inventory and limited HPP access to HRC inventory.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 21, 2018)

Interesting. From my understanding, the two programs represent completely different and separate ownership trusts, meaning the ability of one group to access the others’ units can only be done through a deeded ownership in both. You might say, “well, why can HRC owners now easily use HPP units?” And the answer is that ILG overbought through ROFR last year, has far too much inventory available in HPP with too few owners, and has—at least temporarily—allowed HRC owners to get access simply to offset the huge costs that ILG is incurring by owning those HPP units and continuing to pay maintenance costs on them.

Because the HRC system is robust and working well, the reverse does not apply for HPP owners.

By the way, my experience with the GO Hyatt ownership reps is not as positive as yours, bdh. Often I have gotten bad information, requiring me to call back to get a more experienced, better-trained rep.


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## bdh (Jan 21, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> Interesting. From my understanding, the two programs represent completely different and separate ownership trusts, meaning the ability of one group to access the others’ units can only be done through a deeded ownership in both. You might say, “well, why can HRC owners now easily use HPP units?” And the answer is that ILG overbought through ROFR last year, has far too much inventory available in HPP with too few owners, and has—at least temporarily—allowed HRC owners to get access simply to offset the huge costs that ILG is incurring by owning those HPP units and continuing to pay maintenance costs on them.
> 
> Because the HRC system is robust and working well, the reverse does not apply for HPP owners.
> 
> By the way, my experience with the GO Hyatt ownership reps is not as positive as yours, bdh. Often I have gotten bad information, requiring me to call back to get a more experienced, better-trained rep.



Agreed that the HRC and HPP are completely different ownership programs and that HRC is a strong product and HPP is currently an under performing product.  Again, hope I'm wrong, but when the Go Hyatt staff explain the system reservation rules and you can see that bear out on your computer screen via the online Hyatt website, it adds credence to the veracity of their comments (unlike a TS salesman that talks but doesn't really say anything).  Not saying that every Go Hyatt staff is omniscient, but have found far more of them to be knowledge/accurate on things Hyatt than not  (especially when compared to a TS salesman).   

RE:_ ILG overbought through ROFR last year, has far too much inventory available in HPP with too few owners, and has—at least temporarily—allowed HRC owners to get access simply to offset the huge costs that ILG is incurring by owning those HPP units and continuing to pay maintenance costs on them. _Is this confirmed info or conjecture?  While possible, it would be interesting to learn how HRC pays or transfers money to the HPP balance sheet when an HRC owner confirms a HPP reservation.  I'm thinking that the money that HRC receives from deeded week owners is allocated and spent on specific line items in the MF breakdown - so HRC doesn't have extra money to pay HPP for a week.  The only extra money thrown in on an HPP reservation that I'm aware of the $60 cleaning fee - and that comes from the individual that uses the reservation. 

Maybe this will all become abundantly clear on January 29, but I'm not holding my breath.   Would be interested in hearing what the Go Hyatt staff tells you/others when asked "Do HPP owners have instant access to a HRC owned week when it rolls from HRPP to CUP at the 6 month mark or when a HRC owner converts their HRPP unit to CUP when confirmed into a different property or week then what they own?"


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## lizap (Jan 21, 2018)

bdh said:


> Agreed that the HRC and HPP are completely different ownership programs and that HRC is a strong product and HPP is currently an under performing product.  Again, hope I'm wrong, but when the Go Hyatt staff explain the system reservation rules and you can see that bear out on your computer screen via the online Hyatt website, it adds credence to the veracity of their comments (unlike a TS salesman that talks but doesn't really say anything).  Not saying that every Go Hyatt staff is omniscient, but have found far more of them to be knowledge/accurate on things Hyatt than not  (especially when compared to a TS salesman).
> 
> RE:_ ILG overbought through ROFR last year, has far too much inventory available in HPP with too few owners, and has—at least temporarily—allowed HRC owners to get access simply to offset the huge costs that ILG is incurring by owning those HPP units and continuing to pay maintenance costs on them. _Is this confirmed info or conjecture?  While possible, it would be interesting to learn how HRC pays or transfers money to the HPP balance sheet when an HRC owner confirms a HPP reservation.  I'm thinking that the money that HRC receives from deeded week owners is allocated and spent on specific line items in the MF breakdown - so HRC doesn't have extra money to pay HPP for a week.  The only extra money thrown in on an HPP reservation that I'm aware of the $60 cleaning fee - and that comes from the individual that uses the reservation.
> 
> Maybe this will all become abundantly clear on January 29, but I'm not holding my breath.   Would be interested in hearing what the Go Hyatt staff tells you/others when asked "Do HPP owners have instant access to a HRC owned week when it rolls from HRPP to CUP at the 6 month mark or when a HRC owner converts their HRPP unit to CUP when confirmed into a different property or week then what they own?"



I still believe there's a decent chance that Hyatt's plan has always been to allow HRC owners to convert to HPP on a yearly basis for a nominal fee, ala Marriott. That would take care of any HPC inventory problem they might ever have.  I believe their first approach was to see how many HRC owners they could sucker into paying ridiculous amounts of money to convert.


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## Sapper (Jan 21, 2018)

I'd agree that the HRC and HPP are separate stacks of inventory, catering to different folks (assuming someone does not own in both).  I am actually fine with both having access to the others inventory at the six month mark.  As long as it stays with both having access.  When / IF one has access to the others inventory with out reciprocal access, then I have an issue.  However, at this point, for whatever reason, it seems to be a fair and equal situation.  As has been pointed out, this may change, and it may change on the 29th, or it may change in a few years (assuming the HPP ever becomes popular enough to be self sustaining).  For now, I'm ok with it.

* Fair disclosure, I used my HRC points to book an HPP unit at Carmel for March, so I may be a tad biased right now.


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## Kal (Jan 21, 2018)

We can split hairs on HPP access to HRC units at the time the HRPP status moves to CUP.  The key point is the request list.  Immediately upon expiration of the HRPP (or whenever the unit moves to CUP status), the system first looks to the request list and the person with the highest status is granted the reservation.  This all happens electronically.  For any situation where there is a wait list request, the only opportunity for HPP access is after the wait list process is complete or be on the wait list.  However, if there is no wait list, the HPP request could be filled as the unit is in the "available" status.

So actually, the words from Hyatt are mostly trivial speak.  As we earlier had presumed, HPP would only have access to HRC units deposited or existing in the HPP system.  It would appear HPP could have access to legacy units, provided they get on the request list just like all the legacy HRC owners do in obtaining reservations.

I'll get better clarification on this in a couple of weeks when I participate in the "owners update sporting event".

http://www.bywindkal.com/music/Ready.mp3       <<<=======


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 21, 2018)

Kal said:


> I'll get better clarification on this in a couple of weeks when I participate in the "owners update sporting event".



Wow, Kal, your report on that might be better entertainment than tuning into the Super Bowl


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## heathpack (Jan 21, 2018)

Sapper said:


> * Fair disclosure, I used my HRC points to book an HPP unit at Carmel for March, so I may be a tad biased right now.



Damn, if you’re the one who snagged that 2BR three night stay that I was trying to book, I am so annoyed!


We’re there March 11-18, message me if we’ll over lap.


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## Sapper (Jan 21, 2018)

heathpack said:


> Damn, if you’re the one who snagged that 2BR three night stay that I was trying to book, I am so annoyed!
> 
> 
> We’re there March 11-18, message me if we’ll over lap.



HAHA, wasn't me.  I grabbed a one bedroom for four nights, 8th-12th.  I'll PM you.


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## bdh (Jan 21, 2018)

Kal said:


> We can split hairs on HPP access to HRC units at the time the HRPP status moves to CUP.  The key point is the request list.  Immediately upon expiration of the HRPP (or whenever the unit moves to CUP status), the system first looks to the request list and the person with the highest status is granted the reservation.  This all happens electronically.  For any situation where there is a wait list request, the only opportunity for HPP access is after the wait list process is complete or be on the wait list.  However, if there is no wait list, the HPP request could be filled as the unit is in the "available" status.
> 
> So actually, the words from Hyatt are mostly trivial speak.  As we earlier had presumed, HPP would only have access to HRC units deposited or existing in the HPP system.  It would appear HPP could have access to legacy units, provided they get on the request list just like all the legacy HRC owners do in obtaining reservations.
> 
> I'll get better clarification on this in a couple of weeks when I participate in the "owners update sporting event".



While at the "owner update sporting event", see if the sales staff at your sales location provide the same info on HPP access to HRC that the Coconut Plantation staff stated.   HPP access to HRC units via the request list just like all the legacy HRC owners is a vastly different scenario than access to HRC units only when a legacy HRC owner converts a deeded week in any given year to the HPP system.

The best part of the sporting event is that you have front row seats and they pay you to attend!!  Enjoy the game and let us know who wins!


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## Kal (Jan 21, 2018)

My position is there are two distinct systems with no cross-over.  However, I will definitely bait the sales weasel by assuming the role of a HPP new owner who has priority access to everything HRC.  Then I will put the HRC/HPP rules on the table and ask if they can show me in the rules just to confirm the glory and good fortune of the HPP.

My only concern is if I should take popcorn to the event!


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## dahntahn (Jan 22, 2018)

Kal said:


> My position is there are two distinct systems with no cross-over.  However, I will definitely bait the sales weasel by assuming the role of a HPP new owner who has priority access to everything HRC.  Then I will put the HRC/HPP rules on the table and ask if they can show me in the rules just to confirm the glory and good fortune of the HPP.
> 
> My only concern is if I should take popcorn to the event!




Is there currently any marketing/sales effort under way by Hyatt to sell pure points in the HPP trust to new buyers, or are they only trying to sell deed conversions to present HRC owners to build inventory in the new system before selling to the general public?  Until there are new pure points owners, there will be no increased competition for us legacy owners?


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 22, 2018)

Yes. The main focus, in fact, of the Hyatt sales weasels has been to push HPP to all suckers, er...marks...er prospective customers for at least a year now. I would even venture to say that non-legacy buyers are considered a priority since they presumably don’t know enough about the features and benefits of HRC. Although none of us can know for sure, I think it’s a safe bet that the large majority of HPP owners are newbies, not legacy owners.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 22, 2018)

dahntahn said:


> Is there currently any marketing/sales effort under way by Hyatt to sell pure points in the HPP trust to new buyers, or are they only trying to sell deed conversions to present HRC owners to build inventory in the new system before selling to the general public?  Until there are new pure points owners, there will be no increased competition for us legacy owners?


I am seeing more Hyatt units from Florida,Sedona and Texas on interval


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## theo (Jan 22, 2018)

Kal said:


> My position is there are two distinct systems with no cross-over.  However, I will definitely bait the sales weasel by assuming the role of a HPP new owner who has priority access to everything HRC.  Then I will put the HRC/HPP rules on the table and ask if they can show me in the rules just to confirm the glory and good fortune of the HPP.
> 
> My only concern is if I should take popcorn to the event!



Kal, I don't know you personally, but I somehow think I would really enjoy watching you play with the sales weasels.
Invite me along sometime --- I'll bring enough popcorn for both of us.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 22, 2018)

theo said:


> Kal, I don't know you personally, but I somehow think I would really enjoy watching you play with the sales weasels.
> Invite me along sometime --- I'll bring enough popcorn for both of us.


Theo, bring along a hidden camera and post the video here on TUG. It will be a runaway bestseller!


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## Kal (Jan 22, 2018)

I'm still thinking thru my game plan.  I really want to have them take the bait and pour on the heavy closing approach.  That way there will be a better chance that they will get carried away with the pitch.  I would like to just place my iPhone on the table in front of me with the recorder running.  They won't know it's running and see it as the typical smart phone as an extended body part.  The other thought was to tell them I'm recording the conversation, but that might cause them to (as Archie Bunker would say) stifle themselves.

When I break out the rules and regulations, they might smell a rat and shut down.  I'm also thinking about mentioning I recently received a substantial inheritance....show them the money.  The color "green" would be like placing peanut butter on a mouse trap!


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## Cropman (Jan 29, 2018)

I’m at Sunset Harbor now but they won’t let me go on a presentation.  My wife won’t go and is truly good with whatever I decide.  She didn’t care when we bought here and the only reason she is on the deed is in case something happens to me.  All the appointments slots are being saved for couples.  I was told maybe next time they will be able to fit me in.  Geez, and I had planned on purchasing 4000 points at $20 a point.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 29, 2018)

We are at Sunset Harbor now for 4 days and ended up going to a presentation.  It was concerning to us that all Portfolio members have access to our points once we give up our set week and can reserve them at 18 mos out so potentially could significantly cut down on our inventory and ability to reserve. It was $18,000 to buy 900 points and Hyattize our 2 resale weeks. To Hyattize 1 week we would need to buy 660 pts for $13,200.  The big announcement that was supposed to come out Jan. 29 was put off for a few more weeks supposedly to our benefit , per sales but who really knows. Eventually within 18 mos to 2 yrs all resorts will supposedly be in Portfolio. The presentation was fairly low pressure and gave us a few days to think about it. I think it is difficult in Key West to sell lportfolio because most folks in Sunset Harbor use their set week and rarely trade. We did meet a couple today in the hot tub who bought 2200 portfolio points this week. They already own 2 weeks but trade within Hyatt a lot and were concerned that the inventory for club users would dry up. We did not bite but I will say we left the presentation concerned that we will not be able to get the trades we are currently gettong.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 29, 2018)

Cropman said:


> I’m at Sunset Harbor now but they won’t let me go on a presentation.  My wife won’t go and is truly good with whatever I decide.  She didn’t care when we bought here and the only reason she is on the deed is in case something happens to me.  All the appointments slots are being saved for couples.  I was told maybe next time they will be able to fit me in.  Geez, and I had planned on purchasing 4000 points at $20 a point.


We said no twice here when asked to attend the update .Then this morning we worked out at the Hyatt hotel and were chatting with a staff member for awhile 
 We had no idea he was involved with the Timeshare but he offered us a better incentive and said he could get us in right away so we somehow ended up at a presentation today. You should check out the hotel. Maybe they will let you go without your wife. I am curious what others take is on the program.


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## bdh (Jan 29, 2018)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> The big announcement that was supposed to come out Jan. 29 was put off for a few more weeks supposedly to our benefit , per sales but who really knows.



This is Deja Vu all over again (aka: HPP roll out in 2017)


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## Kal (Jan 29, 2018)

Cropman said:


> I’m at Sunset Harbor now but they won’t let me go on a presentation.  My wife won’t go and is truly good with whatever I decide.  She didn’t care when we bought here and the only reason she is on the deed is in case something happens to me.  All the appointments slots are being saved for couples.  I was told maybe next time they will be able to fit me in.  Geez, and I had planned on purchasing 4000 points at $20 a point.


That's the classic time share deal where they insist on both husband and wife attend.  That way one person doesn't walk away saying "let me check with my spouse".  Their goal is instant sign up.


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## Kal (Jan 29, 2018)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We are at Sunset Harbor now for 4 days and ended up going to a presentation.  It was concerning to us that all Portfolio members have access to our points once we give up our set week and can reserve them at 18 mos out so potentially could significantly cut down on our inventory and ability to reserve. It was $18,000 to buy 900 points and Hyattize our 2 resale weeks. To Hyattize 1 week we would need to buy 660 pts for $13,200.  The big announcement that was supposed to come out Jan. 29 was put off for a few more weeks supposedly to our benefit , per sales but who really knows. Eventually within 18 mos to 2 yrs all resorts will supposedly be in Portfolio. The presentation was fairly low pressure and gave us a few days to think about it. I think it is difficult in Key West to sell lportfolio because most folks in Sunset Harbor use their set week and rarely trade. We did meet a couple today in the hot tub who bought 2200 portfolio points this week. They already own 2 weeks but trade within Hyatt a lot and were concerned that the inventory for club users would dry up. We did not bite but I will say we left the presentation concerned that we will not be able to get the trades we are currently gettong.


There would be little or nothing available at 18 months.  Almost all availability comes at the close of the HRPP period.


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## lizap (Jan 30, 2018)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We are at Sunset Harbor now for 4 days and ended up going to a presentation.  It was concerning to us that all Portfolio members have access to our points once we give up our set week and can reserve them at 18 mos out so potentially could significantly cut down on our inventory and ability to reserve. It was $18,000 to buy 900 points and Hyattize our 2 resale weeks. To Hyattize 1 week we would need to buy 660 pts for $13,200.  The big announcement that was supposed to come out Jan. 29 was put off for a few more weeks supposedly to our benefit , per sales but who really knows. Eventually within 18 mos to 2 yrs all resorts will supposedly be in Portfolio. The presentation was fairly low pressure and gave us a few days to think about it. I think it is difficult in Key West to sell lportfolio because most folks in Sunset Harbor use their set week and rarely trade. We did meet a couple today in the hot tub who bought 2200 portfolio points this week. They already own 2 weeks but trade within Hyatt a lot and were concerned that the inventory for club users would dry up. We did not bite but I will say we left the presentation concerned that we will not be able to get the trades we are currently gettong.



1.  Remember not all Hyatt resorts are in HPP.

2. Even if they do away with HRC (which I highly doubt), you will still be able to exchange via II. We have gotten some excellent trades into Marriott thru II. I feel sorry for those being suckered into paying big $ to buy into HPP. I still believe there is a good chance the BiG announcement is to allow existing HRC owners to convert to HPP at a nominal price (possibly on a yearly basis) ala Marriott...


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## lizap (Jan 30, 2018)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We said no twice here when asked to attend the update .Then this morning we worked out at the Hyatt hotel and were chatting with a staff member for awhile
> We had no idea he was involved with the Timeshare but he offered us a better incentive and said he could get us in right away so we somehow ended up at a presentation today. You should check out the hotel. Maybe they will let you go without your wife. I am curious what others take is on the program.



The salespeople are really being VERY aggressive with HPP. What this tells me is they are having trouble selling it.


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## bdh (Jan 30, 2018)

lizap said:


> Even if they do away with HRC (which I highly doubt), you will still be able to exchange via II. We have gotten some excellent trades into Marriott thru II. I feel sorry for those being suckered into paying big $ to buy into HPP. I still believe there is a good chance the BiG announcement is to allow existing HRC owners to convert to HPP at a nominal price (possibly on a yearly basis) ala Marriott...



They can't do away with HRC - they can create a system where you own nothing other than points that can evaporate (AKA: HPP), but they can't make deeds evaporate (AKA: HRC). Nothing against II and the potential for good trades as a lot of TS owners prefer not going to the same location, however having the guarantee to return to the same great location is appealing to some.  (AKA: there no one singular "best" TS).  If they did come out with a nominal priced HPP/HRC conversion, they would get a lot more HRC owners to bite on that (not sure how the HRC owners that shelled out big bucks for HPP would feel about that!)


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 30, 2018)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> We are at Sunset Harbor now for 4 days and ended up going to a presentation.  It was concerning to us that all Portfolio members have access to our points once we give up our set week and can reserve them at 18 mos out so potentially could significantly cut down on our inventory and ability to reserve. It was $18,000 to buy 900 points and Hyattize our 2 resale weeks. To Hyattize 1 week we would need to buy 660 pts for $13,200.  The big announcement that was supposed to come out Jan. 29 was put off for a few more weeks supposedly to our benefit , per sales but who really knows. Eventually within 18 mos to 2 yrs all resorts will supposedly be in Portfolio. The presentation was fairly low pressure and gave us a few days to think about it. I think it is difficult in Key West to sell lportfolio because most folks in Sunset Harbor use their set week and rarely trade. We did meet a couple today in the hot tub who bought 2200 portfolio points this week. They already own 2 weeks but trade within Hyatt a lot and were concerned that the inventory for club users would dry up. We did not bite but I will say we left the presentation concerned that we will not be able to get the trades we are currently gettong.


I know you've been worried about the effect of HPP on your legacy ownership for some time, but remember one important thing: the job of the sales weasel is ALWAYS to create doubt about what you own and dangle opportunity in front of a prospective owner (er, "mark", in the TUG parlance). As others have pointed out, the HRC resorts have a separate property trust, different and distinct from HPP. You have nothing to worry about, and the purchase of HPP is a very expensive--and, IMO, unnecessary--insurance policy against an outcome almost certainly never to occur.


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## lizap (Jan 30, 2018)

bdh said:


> They can't do away with HRC - they can create a system where you own nothing other than points that can evaporate (AKA: HPP), but they can't make deeds evaporate (AKA: HRC). Nothing against II and the potential for good trades as a lot of TS owners prefer not going to the same location, however having the guarantee to return to the same great location is appealing to some.  (AKA: there no one singular "best" TS).  If they did come out with a nominal priced HPP/HRC conversion, they would get a lot more HRC owners to bite on that (not sure how the HRC owners that shelled out big bucks for HPP would feel about that!)



As I have said before, my source (which I cannot divulge) led me to believe this was exactly their plan (to allow HRC owners to convert on an annual basis at a reasonable price); of course, this plan may have changed.  I strongly suspect they are not being very successful at getting HRC owners to convert at the high prices they are charging. In order for HPP to work, they must have sufficient inventory.  They have tried to sucker as many as they can into buying at the ridiculously high prices. Any day now, I suspect current HRC owners will receive notification that we can buy into HPP at a very reasonable price, ala Marriott..


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## bdh (Jan 30, 2018)

WalnutBaron said:


> As others have pointed out, the HRC resorts have a separate property trust, different and distinct from HPP. You have nothing to worry about, and the purchase of HPP is a very expensive--and, IMO, unnecessary--insurance policy against an outcome almost certainly never to occur.



HRC and HPP are different ownership ponds, however based on recent posts here on TUG, both owners can fish in the other's reservation pond.  HRC owners get their license to pull fish (a confirmed reservation) from the HPP pond 6 months prior to check in date - HPP owners get their license to pull fish from the HRC pond up to 12 months prior to check in date (only after an HRC owner throws their HRPP fish into the pond).


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## Cropman (Jan 30, 2018)

Lol. Hyatt is offering $75 for the tour to owners in Key West. Just walked by a booth on the street and the offer is $150!!


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## Kal (Jan 30, 2018)

The $150 definitely shows the priority in selling.  Closing on the uninformed newbie is hard because of the high price so they need to dangle a bigger bribe.  However, the reward to Hyatt in completing the sale is much better.  Hyatt still needs the HRC owners as that will provide much needed inventory to the HPP.


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## Kal (Jan 30, 2018)

I'm ready to rumble!  Here's Hyatt's opening pitch:

_*"I would like to thank you for keeping up to date with your ownership by booking an owner update. *We recently made some major changes to the Hyatt program that will allow you to book further out, book more places, and make your vacations even more relaxing. Your appointment is scheduled for *Tuesday, February 6th at 8:30 am. You will receive* *$75 in Gift Certificates.*  The review should take no more than 60 minutes. If married or living together, both spouses must attend. I am confident that you will be as excited to learn about the new *Portfolio Points program* as we are!"_


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## Sapper (Jan 30, 2018)

I can't imagine there would be any HRC units available 18 months out because we get access to the unit week / points associated with the unit week at 12 months out (so there is no HRC inventory between 12-18 months out). At 12 months out the story may change a little, but a unit owner would have to release their owned unit week between 6-12 months out, just as it is done right now. At the 6-12 month mark, we all have access, so not a massive change. Between 0-6 months out HPP units become available to HRC owners. My takeaway from this is between 6-12 months out there is some disparity as HPP has access to HRC units, but not the other way around. This may have some impact on the availability to HRC owners, and may have some kind of impact on the wait list.  Then, under the six month mark HPP inventory HRC owners would not have access to if it were not for the new HPP system becomes available to HRC owners. Hence, anything we may lose between 6-12 months we gain under the six month point.  If this is all correct, I don't see any reason to buy into the HPP system.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 30, 2018)

Sapper said:


> I can't imagine there would be any HRC units available 18 months out because we get access to the unit week / points associated with the unit week at 12 months out (so there is no HRC inventory between 12-18 months out). At 12 months out the story may change a little, but a unit owner would have to release their owned unit week between 6-12 months out, just as it is done right now. At the 6-12 month mark, we all have access, so not a massive change. Between 0-6 months out HPP units become available to HRC owners. My takeaway from this is between 6-12 months out there is some disparity as HPP has access to HRC units, but not the other way around. This may have some impact on the availability to HRC owners, and may have some kind of impact on the wait list.  Then, under the six month mark HPP inventory HRC owners would not have access to if it were not for the new HPP system becomes available to HRC owners. Hence, anything we may lose between 6-12 months we gain under the six month point.  If this is all correct, I don't see any reason to buy into the 98
> 
> 
> Kal said:
> ...


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## Tucsonadventurer (Jan 31, 2018)

OK thanks everyone for helping to relieve our anxiety. I read all your responses to my husband as the update stressed him out and he got me going. Aside from the one couple we met who bought in , most folks here at Sunset just roll their eyes about the update. Thank God for TUG.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 31, 2018)

Kal said:


> The $150 definitely shows the priority in selling.  Closing on the uninformed newbie is hard because of the high price so they need to dangle a bigger bribe.  However, the reward to Hyatt in completing the sale is much better.  Hyatt still needs the HRC owners as that will provide much needed inventory to the HPP.


Of course, they can also acquire inventory through ROFR, as they began doing last year. The problem for Hyatt is that--while that is much easier to accomplish--it's also a lot more expensive and a drain on cash flow. The conversion of existing HRC owners to HPP is both cash flow positive and helps to build inventory. For the poor suckers who pay that ridiculous price, Hyatt/ILG are the clear winners.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 31, 2018)

Tucsonadventurer said:


> OK thanks everyone for helping to relieve our anxiety. I read all your responses to my husband as the update stressed him out and he got me going. Aside from the one couple we met who bought in , most folks here at Sunset just roll their eyes about the update. Thank God for TUG.


Glad you feel reassured. If Hyatt sticks with its current pricing strategy, I simply cannot see a scenario where HPP becomes a problem for legacy owners. And--as has been pointed out elsewhere on this forum--HPP is actually a short-term (and maybe longer than short-term, depending on the success of the HPP sales weasels) *benefit* to legacy owners since we have access to the HPP inventory. It's interesting that this was never officially announced or explained to HRC owners; you have to stumble around on the new website in order to discover and use it.


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## Jayco29D (Feb 25, 2018)

Based on the discussion here, is now a bad time to buy a HRC unit on the resale market?


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## Sapper (Feb 25, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> Based on the discussion here, is now a bad time to buy a HRC unit on the resale market?



I don't believe so.  I think the HRC owners will be fine.  I would not suggest buying into the HPP right now (if ever).  I would suggest buying where you want to stay, and then if there are problems down the road, you have a deed to a place you want (as opposed to the poor folks in HPP who have a "promise" from ILG).


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## Jayco29D (Feb 25, 2018)

I am interested in a Hyatt to add to my portfolio. However, I am not sure what would be the best strategy for me. I would like a Diamond week with 2200 points. Based on where I live and where my extended family lives, I think either California or Florida makes the most sense. My finalists are:

- High Sierra (this is drivable from the Bay Area but also the priciest in upfront costs, the downside is we ski at Squaw so we might not love staying so far away - Incline Village is about 1.5 hours from Squaw esp when local traffic is heavy, we also have a vacation home just an hour from Squaw Valley so Incline Village as a home resort is almost further than our home to Squaw Valley)
- Beach House (this would simply be a trader so the cheapest Platinum would work for this purpose but we may rarely, if ever, visit Key West)
- Coconut Plantation (may use some years when visiting families and to combine with Disney trips and trips to visit family in South Florida, may exchange internally or through Interval in other years, most likely to use for short stays splitting with other places we visit in Florida)

No matter what our home resort is, I hope we can internally exchange for anywhere we might want to visit some years. I am interested in Hyatt Kaanapali but the upfront cost is too high.

The other option I was considering was to not get the Hyatt and buy a Marriott Grand Chateau 3 bedroom as a trader. However, the negative to this is my philosophy has been to "buy where you want to go." We will never go to Las Vegas. However, I have heard that Grand Chateau 3 bedroom is an excellent trader on II and MFs and upfront fees are affordable, esp if we get an EOY.

Any advice?


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## dahntahn (Feb 25, 2018)

Jayco29D said:


> I am interested in a Hyatt to add to my portfolio. However, I am not sure what would be the best strategy for me. I would like a Diamond week with 2200 points. Based on where I live and where my extended family lives, I think either California or Florida makes the most sense. My finalists are:
> 
> - High Sierra week 7 (this is drivable from the Bay Area but also the priciest in upfront costs, the downside is we ski at Squaw so we might not love staying so far away - Incline Village is about 1.5 hours from Squaw esp when local traffic is heavy, we also have a vacation home just an hour from Squaw Valley so Incline Village as a home resort is almost further than our home to Squaw Valley, we also will become an Elite Alliance member soon and have other trading options for the Lake Tahoe area)
> - Beach House (this would simply be a trader so the cheapest Platinum would work for this purpose but we may rarely, if ever, visit Key West)
> ...



We own at Coconut and are very happy there, also own at Beach House but use those points for more time at Coconut.  The central pool complex is extensive, with multiple pools, waterfalls, and a Lazy River.  It is quite large and never crowded as it was designed to serve nine buildings but only three were built, with a fourth now under construction.  There are innumerable restaurants of every size, cuisine, and price range all within a short drive, and a gigantic shopping mall nearby, if shopping is your thing.  (It isn't ours.). Fort Myers airport is about 20 minutes away.   The resort manager is especially good and very approachable.


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