# Point Prices Going Up [maybe] - [merged threads]



## BoTighe (Aug 3, 2010)

I just left SurfWatch presentation and was told there  will be changes to point prices and or incentives beginning August 12.  Anyone getting similar information?


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## DanCali (Aug 3, 2010)

BoTighe said:


> I just left SurfWatch presentation and was told there  will be changes to point prices and or incentives beginning August 12.  Anyone getting similar information?



They told me in a June presentation that prices are going up in July. Probably 90% of owners don't even know about the program yet so I personally doubt prices are going up anytime soon, if ever, especially given the lackluster reception to the program. Would you buy today if they said prices were going down next week?

But even if prices are going up today - does it really matter???  

It's one thing to use the inferior legacy points and live with always trading down for the sake of "convenience" (although if any other exchange company not named "Marriott" charged $600-$2000 to enroll in such an abysmal points program exchange system my guess is that very few Tuggers, if any, would do it)... It's a whole other thing to buy points at ~$10/point when they will likely be almost worthless of the resale market. If there is a resale market for points at all...


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## pfrank4127 (Aug 3, 2010)

*OK, Some New Info, Hopefully Reliable! [about points price changes]*

OK, spoke with sales guide, confirmed point differences as have been discussed here and advised of price point changes.

*On August 11th bonus points will begin to be reduced* (guide not sure how much).

*Current incentives*:  1000 points purchase, 300 additional plus points not counting 800 or enrolling; 1500 points purchase, 1000 additional plus points again not counting 800 for enrolling; 2250 points purchase, 2000 additional plus points again not counting 800

*On September 8th *there will be some price increase (guide again not sure how much).

*On October 6st*, another price increase.  Again no set amount disclosed.

Did ask how Marriott thought this was fair since not all members have been notified, she felt that Marriott was increasingly notifing people thru various avenues.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 3, 2010)

So what was the price now? According to a sales rep, the price was suppose to go up a couple of weeks ago (above $9.20/point). So far I haven't seen confirmation that the price has increased.

I have a written guarentee that the bonus points and price won't change until 12/31 for enrollement sitting in front of me right now. This, of course, doesn't include buying additional points, which I have no intest in at this time.


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## LAX Mom (Aug 3, 2010)

pfrank4127 said:


> Did ask how Marriott thought this was fair since not all members have been notified, she felt that Marriott was increasingly notifing people thru various avenues.



I own 2 Marriott weeks and have not been notified by email, phone call or snail mail of this new points program. It doesn't matter because I have no intention of enrolling or buying additional points. But Marriotts failure to communicate this new program to existing owners is inexcusable. Email? Mail to my home? They know how to reach me.


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## winger (Aug 3, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> .... But Marriotts failure to communicate this new program to existing owners is inexcusable. Email? Mail to my home? They know how to reach me.


 Just a thought - maybe Marriott is taking a step back to re-look at this who points thing (at least the rollout approach) based on all the shortcomings of the program we've pointed out to date?  So, why inform more customers and make the problem worse?


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## winger (Aug 3, 2010)

BoTighe said:


> I just left SurfWatch presentation and was told there  will be changes to point prices and or incentives beginning August 12.  Anyone getting similar information?



Last I heard was increase in mid-July.  Not sure if the salesman was just making up the date to push you into buying.


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## siberiavol (Aug 3, 2010)

BoTighe said:


> I just left SurfWatch presentation and was told there  will be changes to point prices and or incentives beginning August 12.  Anyone getting similar information?



If Marriott does this they are using their old model which was raise prices and create an urgency factor. A seven hundred million dollar write off says that model is broken. It seems like someone has suggested it worked once and lets put some lip stick on this pig and see if anybody notices.

I can't go back to seeing this thing with fresh eyes but I think it will be difficult to convince many people they are going to miss out on a bargain if they don't move before Aug 11.


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## FlyerBobcat (Aug 3, 2010)

*Some New Info.....*

Here a related thread opened just about the same time as this one...
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127736


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## tlwmkw (Aug 3, 2010)

We went to the Surfwatch presentation the week the points were introduced and the salesman said then that the prices would be going up to $13 a point "very soon".  I think this is sales hype.  He also said that the current prices were similar to pre-construction prices and were "so low" to get the program started.  If you look at the prices and what is in the trust then you realize that the pricing is actually quite high and the MF's are even higher.  I don't suppose the average purchaser would think of this so maybe Marriott can get away with it- who knows.  Personally I still think it's just sales speak (ie not true).

tlwmkw


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## windje2000 (Aug 3, 2010)

BoTighe said:


> I just left SurfWatch presentation and was told there  will be *changes to point prices and or incentives* beginning August 12.  Anyone getting similar information?



It sounds like *FUD* from increasingly desperate salespeople to me.


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## ilene13 (Aug 3, 2010)

BoTighe said:


> I just left SurfWatch presentation and was told there  will be changes to point prices and or incentives beginning August 12.  Anyone getting similar information?



We went to a Surfwatch Point/Sales presentation July 8th.  We were also told the prices were going up.   The salesman also told us some other untruths.  I think they like to pressure folk into buying.  We have not enrolled our weeks nor have we bought any points. The salesman thought we should buy 15,000 points because then we would own an equivalent of 10 weeks.  I wonder what he was smoking!!!:rofl:


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## DanCali (Aug 3, 2010)

ilene13 said:


> I think they like to pressure folk into buying.



Nah... Marriott are nice folks... why would they sell you something you don't need at an exorbitant price that will be worth pennies on the dollar in a week?  

Sorry - I couldn't help it


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## dougp26364 (Aug 3, 2010)

So anyone know what the price per point is today? If it's still $9.20 then Marriott sales reps have already been caught lying once. 

I don't mind most of the truth stretching that goes on but to flat out lie and say buy now or it will be more expensive tomorrow always ticks me off.


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## BocaBoy (Aug 3, 2010)

pfrank4127 said:


> OK, spoke with sales guide, confirmed point differences as have been discussed here and advised of price point changes.
> 
> *On August 11th bonus points will begin to be reduced* (guide not sure how much).
> 
> ...



We have a Hawaii week reserved in December.  A few weeks ago I did receive one communication from Marriott about the new points program which encouraged me to attend a sales presentation in Maui to learn about the new program.  (It was obviously only sent to owners with remaining 2010 reservations based on its content.)

Thus, Marriott in effect encouraged me to wait until December.  And now they are saying the price for buying points will be higher by that time?  If true, that is horrendous. (Of course I will not be buying points, but they do not know that).


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## ilene13 (Aug 3, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> I own 2 Marriott weeks and have not been notified by email, phone call or snail mail of this new points program. It doesn't matter because I have no intention of enrolling or buying additional points. But Marriotts failure to communicate this new program to existing owners is inexcusable. Email? Mail to my home? They know how to reach me.



I too have never been officially notified and we own 4 platinum Marriott weeks!!!!


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## pfrank4127 (Aug 3, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> We have a Hawaii week reserved in December.  A few weeks ago I did receive one communication from Marriott about the new points program which encouraged me to attend a sales presentation in Maui to learn about the new program.  (It was obviously only sent to owners with remaining 2010 reservations based on its content.)
> 
> Thus, Marriott in effect encouraged me to wait until December.  And now they are saying the price for buying points will be higher by that time?  If true, that is horrendous. (Of course I will not be buying points, but they do not know that).



I agree that raising prices is WRONG, but I was told the only thing that was guaranteed was the ability to enroll at $595/695 ($1495/1995) rate and the 800 bonus points by Dec 31st.


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## pfrank4127 (Aug 3, 2010)

ilene13 said:


> I too have never been officially notified and we own 4 platinum Marriott weeks!!!!



Door did you have any scheduled stays?  It seems to me that they are the people that are being targeted.


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## DanCali (Aug 3, 2010)

BocaBoy said:


> Thus, Marriott in effect encouraged me to wait until December.  And now they are saying the price for buying points will be higher by that time?  If true, that is horrendous. (Of course I will not be buying points, but they do not know that).



I wouldn't worry about it. My guess is we'll soon hear from Marriott that initial sales are going so well that the "pre-construction" price will last until the end of the year...


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## ilene13 (Aug 3, 2010)

pfrank4127 said:


> Door did you have any scheduled stays?  It seems to me that they are the people that are being targeted.



We were at Surfwatch July 3-10, 2010, where we attended a sales presentation.  I also have 3 weeks booked in Aruba Dec 18-Jan 2.


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## SueDonJ (Aug 3, 2010)

Boy, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to who they've notified or how.  We've already gotten a postcard and that glitzy mailing as well as 2 emails from MVCI, and our sales rep mentioned before the rollout that something was coming and we could call her with questions after.  We'd already been on our trip using 2010 Weeks prior to the rollout, too.  

It doesn't make any sense to me that prices will go up any time before 12/31/10, which is the enrollment date through which the 800 incentive Points will be allotted for Exchange Members.  Sure, that's different than Trust Member purchases but still it appears to be the initial offering period.  After 12/31 I wouldn't be surprised if they offer something different but I think it's more likely that the incentives will change before the prices change.  No reason for thinking that, other than in the past they've adjusted incentives before prices.

I guess the one thing we can all take from this is that we can pretty much expect that some Marriott salespeople will continue their track record of saying whatever they think will make the sale.  And we all agree that's just as wrong with Points sales as it always has been with Weeks.


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## pfrank4127 (Aug 3, 2010)

ilene13 said:


> We were at Surfwatch July 3-10, 2010, where we attended a sales presentation.  I also have 3 weeks booked in Aruba Dec 18-Jan 2.



That's odd we rec'd our flyer a week or two prior to our  July Surf Watch week encouraging us to learn about this great new program.  There goes that theory


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## dougp26364 (Aug 3, 2010)

pfrank4127 said:


> Door did you have any scheduled stays?  It seems to me that they are the people that are being targeted.



I has two stays scheduled when I received our snail mail and E-mail information. One was in Breckenridge where they did not appear to have a sales presence onsite, the other is at MPB where they are actively selling Oceana Palms. 

I don't plan on making a final decision until then or, until they get the bugs worked out to my satisfaction. It might be nice to get a look at Oceana Palms if we decide that the new program can/will work for us.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2010)

pfrank4127 said:


> OK, spoke with sales guide, confirmed point differences as have been discussed here and advised of price point changes.
> 
> *On August 11th bonus points will begin to be reduced* (guide not sure how much).
> 
> ...



When have we ever experienced  reliable information from a sales guide? Why would we start now?


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## dioxide45 (Aug 3, 2010)

If Marriott increases the point price by even one penny, we will know they have truely lost it. All hope will be lost.


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## pfrank4127 (Aug 4, 2010)

dioxide45 said:


> When have we ever experienced  reliable information from a sales guide? Why would we start now?



She's typically truthful and I believe this is accurate.  Guess I'll find out in about a week


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## BocaBoy (Aug 4, 2010)

Marriott works on a 4 week cycle, where every 4 weeks they potentially change incentives and/or prices.  Typically, the salespeople are not even advised of any changes ahead of time--they just come in to work that day and are told the new deals.  That is why this sales person's facts sound suspicious to me.


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## winger (Aug 4, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> So anyone know what the price per point is today?... .



Still $9.20

IMO, it would be dumb for Marriott to raise the promo price before all members are notified of the new Program.


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## qlaval (Aug 4, 2010)

The only reason I can see for Marriott to go forward with a price increase soon, marketing... 
re: “create a sense urgency for future purchasers, _BUY NOW price are going up fast!_....”


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## dougp26364 (Aug 4, 2010)

winger said:


> Still $9.20
> 
> IMO, it would be dumb for Marriott to raise the promo price before all members are notified of the new Program.



Then Marriott sales has been caught in a lie at least once. One Tugger was told prices were going up by the end of July. We'll it's August and the price hasn't gone up.

Marriott would be foolish to increase pricing before all current owners have been notified they have a new option. Sales weasels will tell you anything to get you to sign on the dotted line. Eventually, prices will go up and some salesman will say "See, we told you prices were going up." As if that's any proof of their honesty. 

Marriott use to be a class act as far as sales staff was concerned. Anymore I pretty much lump them in with all the other timeshare sales staff's around the world. Sure there are some that are more honest than others but, as a general rule, I've come to the conclusion over the last few years that there's very few I'd trust to give me accurate information. Heck, most of the time the don't have a clue as to what's real and what's false. They're just feeding us the lines they're fed in hopes they can keep feeding their families.


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## winger (Aug 4, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> .... They're just feeding us the lines they're fed in hopes they can keep feeding their families.



In most sales jobs, it is hard for a salesman to tell his children at night that he earned an honest day's living.  Unfortunately, Doug, I believe you are correct in that Marriott's sales staff, generally speaking, have strayed off the 'honest' path in recent years.  For that, I will NO LONGER recommend anyone to attend a Marriott sales presentation. I used to without hesitation because I had a sense of trust that whomever I referred would be treated with respect and honesty. 

It is a shame to see this happen.


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## windje2000 (Aug 5, 2010)

*the august 13 deadline*

Found this browsing the MVCI website

Link  Then click -- View Participation Details

Bolded emphasis below is mine



> Purchase Special
> Earn 1,100 to 12,500 Vacation Club PlusPoints for a limited time
> 
> SPONSOR : Marriott Vacation Club International
> ...


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## kedler (Aug 5, 2010)

This statement in bold:

"Weeks Owners who are enrolling and purchasing Vacation Club Points at the same time are not eligible for this specific offer.

States that this offer, which includes the expiration date, is NOT applicable to those of us who are WEEKS OWNERS and explains some of the discrepancies in the PlusPoints awarded - the Weeks Owners get the 800 + another number that is a bit less, _i.e._ than the total awarded new Points Owners; however, its possible that some of the early reps added the 800 to this chart for new owners rather than using the weeks owners chart.

I purchased 7 interests and I will receive 1800 total points - 800 for enrollment and 1000 for the points but if someone used the wrong chart I might have received 1900 PlusPoints. 

More Marriott chaos.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 5, 2010)

kedler said:


> This statement in bold:
> 
> "Weeks Owners who are enrolling and purchasing Vacation Club Points at the same time are not eligible for this specific offer.
> 
> ...



So Marriott created plausable deniability by screwing up the roll out so bad that no one at Marriott fully understood it. Thus, they're not lying. They just don't have a clue what they're talking about. 

Yea, that creates a strong sense of trust between Marriott and it's owners.


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## windje2000 (Aug 5, 2010)

dougp26364 said:


> So Marriott created plausable deniability by screwing up the roll out so bad that no one at Marriott fully understood it. Thus, they're not lying. They just don't have a clue what they're talking about.
> 
> Yea, that creates a strong sense of trust between Marriott and it's owners.



doug - I agree with you and I'll go even farther.

I know some on this board believe this is a carefully considered roll out of a carefully crafted plan four years in the making.  The more time passes, the more that just doesn't add up.  

I'm not addressing the plan provisions discussed at length on this board or even whether or not you like the plan - it is what it is.  

But consider what one might expect in a well planned roll-out/introduction of a points program and what they are doing:


They can't (or won't) respond promptly to straightforward, procedural, how does it work questions

They don't have a points resale program in place 

They don't have a points rental program in place 

They don't have an online points reservation system in place.

They don't have approved brokers in place 

They didn't have 'opening day' staff  in place

Some have observed that the IT systems are obsolescent.

The 800 bonus points don't show up in accounts/ must be borrowed and hopefully can be replaced

The didn't have 'opening day' inventory in place

There's no II online access  (whoda thunk that might be a problem - duh)

Multiple II accounts erroneously created?

There is great confusion about plan terms and conditions

There appears to be no 'plain english'  DClub for Dummies operation manual.

They haven't notified huge numbers of owners - Ever hear of a broadcast email?  Kinko's could have done a 400,000 piece mailing. 

Got a question - we'll have specialists on-line giving you accurate reliable on the record answers to question. Ever hear of a chat board?

Bill Marriott has never responded to anything in his blog.  I'm surprised its still up.  I'm just stunned there is so little communication with owners.

The sales staff?  Clueless.  Perhaps that's deliberate.  Now they're raising the price?  Pure FUD

Undocumented gotchas like the waitllist issue. Wonder how many more lurk in the legalese.
There's probably more, but that's really enough.


I am increasingly skeptical of any claim that  Marriott spent four years in product development on this plan with surveys, market research, focus groups, etc. It couldn't possibly be this much of a beta test if that were true.  

This is just not ready for prime time.  They may have been kicking around concepts as part of annual long term strategic planning, but a seriously focused four year effort to put this together and roll this out?  Doesn't feel like it.  It has more of the earmarks of a hastily cobbled together knee jerk reaction to a $700 million hit to the P&L.  

Who's the brain behind this - the genius who put it together?  

Probably some 'points expert', . . . most likely an external hire, . . . who neither understands  . . . nor has any concerns . . . about the care and feeding of the existing (deeded product) customer base.  


A customer base which Marriott spent 25 years creating and nurturing.  

A customer base which selected deeded product over points based product.  

A customer base which actively supported MVCI product with high close rate referrals. 

A customer base Marriott seems more than willing to flush down the toilet.


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## hotcoffee (Aug 5, 2010)

windje2000 said:


> . . . I am increasingly skeptical of any claim that  Marriott spent four years in product development on this plan with surveys, market research, focus groups, etc. It couldn't possibly be this much of a beta test if that were true. . . . .
> This is just not ready for prime time.  They may have been kicking around concepts as part of annual long term strategic planning, but a seriously focused four year effort to put this together and roll this out?  . . .



Well, a new internal exchange system has been mentioned on TUG for a while - even before I joined TUG.  So, maybe they really have been developing this for four years.  Perhaps, the final program ended up being something of a compromise between disagreeing factions within Marriott - a compromise that satisfies no one and that everyone equally dislikes.(?)


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## Fredm (Aug 5, 2010)

windje2000 said:


> I am increasingly skeptical of any claim that  Marriott spent four years in product development on this plan with surveys, market research, focus groups, etc. It couldn't possibly be this much of a beta test if that were true.
> 
> This is just not ready for prime time.  They may have been kicking around concepts as part of annual long term strategic planning, but a seriously focused four year effort to put this together and roll this out?  Doesn't feel like it.  It has more of the earmarks of a hastily cobbled together knee jerk reaction to a $700 million hit to the P&L.
> 
> ...



The last thing Marriott wants to do is create a large infrastructure for this new exchange. 
Operations, administration, marketing, and sales were  severely contracted and consolidated two years ago to adjust for the ravages of the economy on their business.

They do not want to deal with the concentrated sales and migration effort that mass notification will cause. They certainly do not want to re-inflate the staffing necessary to do it.

Marriott will do it in their time. It may be a big deal to you, but it is not a big deal to them. This is a long term effort.
The primary focus for Marriott is not the enrollment of legacy owners, but the TRUST. That is the product they are selling.
If I were them, that is exactly how I would approach it. 

Meanwhile, some 400,000 owners continue to use the system that they know and like. The timeshare they bought works exactly as it always has. NOTHING has changed in that respect. They do not need care and feeding. 
Marriott will get around to them as it suits their business plan.

We can all critique what is not being administered as we would like. For example:

 - First day telephone reservations were unacceptably slow. A week later they are fine. Would you have hired and trained an additional 60 reservation agents for 1 day, only to have them as excess a week later?  I wouldn't.

 -  A bulk mail house, or email campaign system  can surely handle 400,000 notices. Then what? An army of staffers lined up to stem the tide of inquiries that they are not prepared to process in a timely manner?

- A chat board. Are you kidding?  Try satisfying the 100 or so here on tug. Never mind the thousands who only get confused with the dialog. 

 - etc, etc. etc. 

Marriott knows exactly what it is doing. 
Some will criticize it.
Personally, I can't get worked up over it. It does not affect how I use my timeshare.


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## siberiavol (Aug 6, 2010)

Fredm said:


> The last thing Marriott wants to do is create a large infrastructure for this new exchange.
> Operations, administration, marketing, and sales were  severely contracted and consolidated two years ago to adjust for the ravages of the economy on their business.
> 
> They do not want to deal with the concentrated sales and migration effort that mass notification will cause. They certainly do not want to re-inflate the staffing necessary to do it.
> ...



I don't think in a million years Marriott thought the opening would be this screwed up. No service related company wants to leave a bad taste in the mouth of many of their best customers because of incompetence. This is like Marriott opening a hotel with rooms that have little to no furniture.

If you did a poll of owners and asked "Is your impression better or worse with regards to Marriott and their timeshare system than a  year ago?", I believe the vast majority of both enrolled and non-enrolled members would say worse. 

Worse is not an answer any company that knows what it is doing strives for. They might still like their plan long term but I highly doubt any Marriott executives are celebrating what a great job they have done so far.


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## windje2000 (Aug 6, 2010)

Fredm said:


> The last thing Marriott wants to do is create a large infrastructure for this new exchange.
> Operations, administration, marketing, and sales were  severely contracted and consolidated two years ago to adjust for the ravages of the economy on their business.
> 
> They do not want to deal with the concentrated sales and migration effort that mass notification will cause. They certainly do not want to re-inflate the staffing necessary to do it.
> ...



So they want customers, but don't want to hire staff to service them.  Ever hear of outsourcing?  

Ever go to a grocery store grand opening and find empty shelves and lines 3 hours long because there are no cashiers?

Yeah, a chat board.  One of the reasons for all the confusion about this plan is that there is no official 'DClub for Dummies' manual, the MArriott staff gives conflicting information and that's wasting everyone's time.  

Ask any trader and they'll tell you that the most profit potential exists in panic driven down markets.  If I were you I'd be jumping for joy - they've managed the roll out in a manner to make the resale market more attractive than ever from a buyer's perspective.  Just as long as you buy where you want to go.


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## Fredm (Aug 6, 2010)

siberiavol said:


> I don't think in a million years Marriott thought the opening would be this screwed up. No service related company wants to leave a bad taste in the mouth of many of their best customers because of incompetence. This is like Marriott opening a hotel with rooms that have little to no furniture.
> 
> If you did a poll of owners and asked "Is your impression better or worse with regards to Marriott and their timeshare system than a  year ago?", I believe the vast majority of both enrolled and non-enrolled members would say worse.
> 
> Worse is not an answer any company that knows what it is doing strives for. They might still like their plan long term but I highly doubt any Marriott executives are celebrating what a great job they have done so far.



We just see it differently.

Maybe 1% of Marriott owners have gotten wrapped up in the issues discussed here. Of those issues, almost all relate to what the docs *do not say*, and infer what *might* happen. Even though none have happened. 
I have said before that if the same thing was done with legacy system governing docs, no one would have bought a Marriott timeshare. Most did not have any idea what the docs said.
Now everyone is an "analyst". 

With the exception of the ridiculous first day telephone wait times, what exactly has gone wrong with the roll-out?
Mis-communication/mis-interpretation, certainly. Some tuggers want answers to nuanced questions, and want them instantly. Some questions will never be directly answered.  We find out how the machinery works through its use, and share with others. No different than its been for 26 years.

Step back for a moment, and ask yourself a question: How has my timeshare use changed in the past month? The answer is it hasn't.

We are all trying to dissect the new exchange rules to determine if it will be beneficial to our individual situation. I know all that I need to know. I will not not convert.  I am pleased to conclude that the legacy system is alive and well. 
It may have taken a thousand posts to sort through the issues to come to that conclusion. But, that is what Marriott said in one short sentence. 
Yes, official FAQ's are often an incomplete answer. But, not a wrong answer. Best to keep it simple for the overwhelming majority of owners with questions. If it were up to me, that is how I would do it. 

Our contributions that offer insight to product function is what we do well here on tug.  Also, opinions of their practical value is helpful to us all. Questions undoubtedly help us get there faster.
But, I am puzzled why anyone would care about how Marriott implements its business plan if it does not affect the use or functionality of the product. 

Your hotel room analogy does not explain anything to me. 
My response to windje2000 was prompted by the same kind of criticism. I guess I just don't see the point of it.


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## Fredm (Aug 6, 2010)

windje2000 said:


> So they want customers, but don't want to hire staff to service them.  Ever hear of outsourcing?
> 
> Ever go to a grocery store grand opening and find empty shelves and lines 3 hours long because there are no cashiers?
> 
> ...



Marriott wants customers on their timetable. Precisely because it is not a carton of milk. Meanwhile, legacy owners have not been impacted one way or the other.
Why do you care how Marriott chooses to roll out its product?

Want a D-Club for Dummies manual? Here it is:

- Legacy owners retain all functions of the legacy product, including home resort reservation preference. Reservation rules are the same. Internal I.I. exchanges are the same, with the same Marriott 24 day preference period. Telephone numbers remain unchanged.

- Enrolled members can choose to convert their deeded interest for exchange points annually.  These are best used for partial week exchanges.  Most full week exchangers will find greater value with I.I. 
Members may elect to use either the exchange or the legacy system every year, at their discretion. 

- All enrolled members may exchange for Marriott Rewards, per the resort and season. Schedule attached.

- Resort daily point values attached.
- Fee schedule attached.

End of Dummies.

Almost all the rest are issues invented here.  NOT based on what the D-Club documents say, but what they don't say. And what governing documents never did.

What panic?  You mean the one manufactured here by ~50 people that 400,000 do not know or care about?


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## SueDonJ (Aug 6, 2010)

I agree with you practically 99.9% of the time, Fred, but still have a problem with how Marriott allowed their employees to respond to however many questions about "the nuances" were asked of them.  There should have been a company-wide directive to all employees to NOT answer any questions for which they weren't sure of the answers, and/or there should have been a select group of employees who were prepared to be asked and to answer any and all questions from any existing customers.  At the very least, every employee could have fielded the tough questions with a stock, "Your question is being referred to the proper department for a response; please bear with us while we make sure our information is correct."

It's understandable how this all happened the way it did - after all, how many companies do you know of where EVERY employee is trained to answer any and all questions about EVERY aspect of all of their products?  Not many, I'd guess, and certainly none that are the size of MVCI.  But understanding how it happened does not excuse this mess that Marriott did nothing to prevent.


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## Fredm (Aug 6, 2010)

SueDonJ said:


> I agree with you practically 99.9% of the time, Fred, but still have a problem with how Marriott allowed their employees to respond to however many questions about "the nuances" were asked of them.  There should have been a company-wide directive to all employees to NOT answer any questions for which they weren't sure of the answers, and/or there should have been a select group of employees who were prepared to be asked and to answer any and all questions from any existing customers.  At the very least, every employee could have fielded the tough questions with a stock, "Your question is being referred to the proper department for a response; please bear with us while we make sure our information is correct."
> 
> It's understandable how this all happened the way it did - after all, how many companies do you know of where EVERY employee is trained to answer any and all questions about EVERY aspect of all of their products?  Not many, I'd guess, and certainly none that are the size of MVCI.  But understanding how it happened does not excuse this mess that Marriott did nothing to prevent.



Sue, you are absolutely right.  Training could have been better. 
But, I understand that nuanced questions can throw a curve at someone. Everyone was/is on a learning curve. Hopefully, it will improve substantially in a very short period of time. OJT is a fact of life. 
In fact, many questions were referred to "specialists" and "managers". They were also incorrect in a few cases. So, Marriott just did not have the intensive drill necessary to hone product knowledge to the highest level.
No excuse, just a real world explanation. 

If that is the extent of the problem, not too bad in the scheme of things. 
I still think Marriott should have offered MRP's to anyone who was on hold for more than 15 minutes during the start up.


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## windje2000 (Aug 6, 2010)

Fredm said:


> Marriott wants customers on their timetable. Precisely because it is not a carton of milk. Meanwhile, legacy owners have not been impacted one way or the other.
> Why do you care how Marriott chooses to roll out its product?
> 
> Want a D-Club for Dummies manual? Here it is:
> ...




Well, Fred, excuse me, but I am a customer.  I was hoping this would be a a better mousetrap, a product I would like to purchase.  This not so much.  I can't even figure out how it's supposed to work.  Neither can the seller.

I don't think I'm alone and there's more than 50 folks who think this ain't a better mousetrap - take a look at Bill's blog.

You yourself said in an earlier post that it was your view Marriott would eventually take over the exchanges.  

I agree with that . . . and that affects us all, --- eventually.


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## siberiavol (Aug 6, 2010)

Fredm said:


> We just see it differently.
> 
> Maybe 1% of Marriott owners have gotten wrapped up in the issues discussed here. Of those issues, almost all relate to what the docs *do not say*, and infer what *might* happen. Even though none have happened.
> I have said before that if the same thing was done with legacy system governing docs, no one would have bought a Marriott timeshare. Most did not have any idea what the docs said.
> ...



 We do disagree on your statement "Marriott knows what they are doing". You seem to be viewing it from the perspective that nothing will change for you because you are a legacy owner and wonder why there is so much useless noise from others. The noise is coming from those that are enrolled or want to get information that they can rely on to make a decision.

I am an enrolled member. I care about how Marriott implements its  business plan because it directly affects the"use and functionality of the product". The new product has different strengths and weakness than the old program. Hundreds of post have been directly related to how things are functioning in the new program.  These have been numerous practical problems that have been described in hundreds of post.

It will be a while before a legacy owner knows if the new program affects them in any way. I hope it doesn't have a negative impact as some think it will. I have owned Marriott's for ten years. I don't a list of things Marriott did wrong.  Things worked pretty much like I expected.

 Windje2000 had a list related to the new program. It appears a large number on here have a list. Is that because all these Tuggers were just expecting too much of a major corporation who has been in the hospitality business for many years? Another option is that Marriott has planned and/or executed their business plan poorly. I think the latter so it appears we will continue to disagree on this point.


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## Fredm (Aug 6, 2010)

windje2000 said:


> Well, Fred, excuse me, but I am a customer.  I was hoping this would be a a better mousetrap, a product I would like to purchase.  This not so much.  I can't even figure out how it's supposed to work.  Neither can the seller.
> 
> I don't think I'm alone and there's more than 50 folks who think this ain't a better mousetrap - take a look at Bill's blog.
> 
> ...



I don't think its a better mousetrap either. 
I do understand why some might  spend the 595-1995 to enroll. 
It does offer some flexibility. Nor worth it to me, though.

Most of the posts on the BM blog came directly from TUG members. 
And most are spewing the disinformation and confusion manufactured right here. Lots of venom without basis in fact. Perception is a funny thing.

Yes, I do believe it is Marriott's long term objective to capture most of the internal exchange action.  They can profit from it in several ways.
So what? That does not mean that the experience will be diminished.


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## windje2000 (Aug 6, 2010)

Fredm said:


> I don't think its a better mousetrap either.
> I do understand why some might  spend the 595-1995 to enroll.
> It does offer some flexibility. Nor worth it to me, though.
> 
> ...



If there's confusion, it rests squarely on Marriott's doorstep.

BTW, I think you mean misinformation, as opposed to disinformation.  I don't think anyone is _intentionally_ spreading falsehoods, . . . other than Marriott sales staff.


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## Fredm (Aug 6, 2010)

windje2000 said:


> If there's confusion, it rests squarely on Marriott's doorstep.
> 
> BTW, I think you mean misinformation, as opposed to disinformation.  I don't think anyone is _intentionally_ spreading falsehoods, . . . other than Marriott sales staff.



I stand corrected. I did mean misinformation.


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## csalter2 (Aug 6, 2010)

*I agree with Fredm*

I am totally with you Fredm. I posted prior to the rollout of the program on more than one occasion that people were speculating so much that they were working themselves up over something that they had no idea about. There were accusations made against Marriott without any information ever being shared. 

Once the program was rolled out, it was dead before the rollout on this board. In some cases it's merely because it's change and nothing more. In other cases it's because some people just want to complain because that's what they do ALL THE TIME. There are some legitimate concerns that some have but others create hysteria over absolutely nothing. For example, the "skim". I could not care less about how many points it will cost me to use my own resort. I plan on making my reservations 12 months out like I always have in the past. There is no need to use points. So why is everyone making a big deal about that. 

I believe that Marriott could have just had some more information on the program to its existing members. Other than the points being a little on the expensive side, I have no problem with it. 

I do have  a problem with listening to people whine and complain all the time. I hate that. They whine and complain on these boards so much instead of trying to find a better way to use the system.


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## mark in time (Aug 6, 2010)

csalter2 said:


> I am totally with you Fredm. I posted prior to the rollout of the program on more than one occasion that people were speculating so much that they were working themselves up over something that they had no idea about. There were accusations and Marriott without any information ever being shared.
> 
> Once the program was rolled out, I was dead before the rollout on this board. In some cases it's merely because it's change and nothing more. In other cases it's because some people just want to complain because that's what they do ALL THE TIME. There are some legitimate concerns that some have but others create hysteria over absolutely nothing. For example, the "skim". I could not care less about how many points it will cost me to use my own resort. I plan on making my reservations 12 months out like I always have in the past. There is no need to use points. So why is everyone making a big deal about that.
> 
> ...



AMEN -Let's share ideas... and stop whining.... many of you posters are BRILLIANT... focus!


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