# 2020 Maintenance fees



## jjking42 (Aug 25, 2019)

did you get yours yet. I got a proxy letter for HPP fees are up 8%
I will post exact numbers later.

Surprised to see that collections and bad dept are up. HPP has the lowest MF in Hyatt system. If the HOA would repo those weeks they could probably resell them.


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## Sapper (Aug 25, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> did you get yours yet. I got a proxy letter for HPP fees are up 8%
> I will post exact numbers later.
> 
> Surprised to see that collections and bad dept are up. HPP has the lowest MF in Hyatt system. If the HOA would repo those weeks they could probably resell them.



What is causing this substantial increase?  If it were an increase in the reserves, well, maybe they have been underfunded and someone sees something down the road that the current reserves will not cover. However, if it’s the management fee (Marriott!), I’d be very displeased.


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## SteelerGal (Aug 25, 2019)

Still waiting for ours to close.  Interested in why the increase in bad debt.


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## jjking42 (Aug 25, 2019)

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## jjking42 (Aug 25, 2019)

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## travelhacker (Aug 25, 2019)

Sapper said:


> What is causing this substantial increase?  If it were an increase in the reserves, well, maybe they have been underfunded and someone sees something down the road that the current reserves will not cover. However, if it’s the management fee (Marriott!), I’d be very displeased.



Here are the big items:

The values quoted are per unit week (2 bedroom) in the proposed budget:
General & Administrative went up $25.20 - 12.04%
Deficit Recovery went up $21.23 - was 0 previously, so no percentage increase.
Bad Debt went up $11.51 - 55.63%
Housekeeping went up $10.55 - 5.6%
Insurance went up $7.33 - 58.45%
Club fee went up $4.00 - 2.61%
Accounting Support went up $3.74 - 50.75%

Management fee is 10%, it went up by $6.14 or 7.41%.

My thoughts are:
1) No idea why G&A would go up so drastically. Perhaps related to the Marriott Acquisition?
2) What is meant by deficit recovery in this case? 
3) No idea why insurance would go up so drastically. I'm not aware of any claims, perhaps each club will see substantial increases because of the Hacienda Del Mar claim?
4) I don't like that the management fee is 10% because there is much less incentive to keep costs down.


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## jjking42 (Aug 25, 2019)

I hope the deficit recovery is to make up for short falls from last year. 

The question is why did they have a deficit. 


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## jjking42 (Aug 25, 2019)

I think insurance and accounting are all related to Marriott takeover  


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 25, 2019)

It’s a delicate balance. They pop up fees and have increased delinquency which leads to future pops in the fees.

The problem frankly is they have the right to charge whatever they  deem necessary. So, in theory, they can bill any amount and owners are contractually obligated to suck it up and send a cheque.

My guess from reading the balance sheet is they had higher delinquency than factored in which resulted in a deficit and now needs to be covered by the owners in good standing. This also explains the larger percent increase in bad debt.


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## jjking42 (Aug 25, 2019)

If they have any delinquent fees from HRC fixed weeks they should repo them and offer to sell them to other owners for a fair resale price. They could have an owner online auction for repo inventory. 

If the owners don’t buy them they should move the inventory into portfolio points and sell it that way. 

I hope it’s not the same people every year on the bad dept list. They need to resolve this and get rid of those owners. 

Collection agency’s suck and paying them is a waste of time. They should be providing an exit strategy for owners that can’t pay the MF. 

Not sure how you make that work if people have a loan on the unit. Did Marriott buy the outstanding loans or does  hyatt still hold the paper 




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## Fredflintstone (Aug 25, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> If they have any delinquent fees from HRC fixed weeks they should repo them and offer to sell them to other owners for a fair resale price. They could have an owner online auction for repo inventory.
> 
> If the owners don’t buy them they should move the inventory into portfolio points and sell it that way.
> 
> ...



You are right. Resorts absolutely have to have an exit program. 

And yes, TSS with loans in them pose a problem. Normally, they refuse to take it back so if the owner defaults, foreclosure happens. Depending on the state, there are anti deficiency laws (like Florida) after foreclosure so they recover nothing more than the TS.

So, guess who they bill for the loss?  Yup...you...the owner in good standing so they lose nothing. I know it’s wrong but that’s how it’s done son. 


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## jjking42 (Aug 25, 2019)

So you are suggesting that bad dept incurred in the HOA is not just MF bad dept but also loan bad dept ? 

So even when we buy resale we are still proping up retail sales profits because any losses retail sales incurs are just passed on as bad dept in MF and charged to owners in good standing


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## Fredflintstone (Aug 25, 2019)

jjking42 said:


> So you are suggesting that bad dept incurred in the HOA is not just MF bad dept but also loan bad dept ?
> 
> So even when we buy resale we are still proping up retail sales profits because any losses retail sales incurs are just passed on as bad dept in MF and charged to owners in good standing



It depends on who has the loan. If it is a resort loan yes. But many loans are not resort driven but bank driven so, in those cases, no. However owners pay the costs to foreclose and lost MFs.   

What i am getting at is ANY losses from the resort is passed on to other owners in good standing. Hence bad debt expense.  

So you have to pay your share AND those who didnt pay too. Thats one of the reasons why MFs are high. 


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## SteelerGal (Aug 26, 2019)

I wonder how f the other resorts have seen an increase.  I do know Hacienda is still not open. So they are paying full MF.


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## Sapper (Aug 26, 2019)

SteelerGal said:


> I wonder how f the other resorts have seen an increase.  I do know Hacienda is still not open. So they are paying full MF.



I’m wondering the same thing as well. What new line items have been added (ie, Deficit Recovery), and what line items have experienced significant increases.  Nothing in my mailbox yet. 

Has anyone contacted the HPP HOA to ask about these line items?


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## IslandTime (Aug 27, 2019)

We haven't received anything yet for Sunset Harbor. Does anyone know how soon the fees show up on the website so we can pay? I have a request in for Maui for next April and I want to be sure to prepay my fees early so I don't miss out if availability comes through.


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## Kal (Aug 27, 2019)

IslandTime said:


> We haven't received anything yet for Sunset Harbor. Does anyone know how soon the fees show up on the website so we can pay? I have a request in for Maui for next April and I want to be sure to prepay my fees early so I don't miss out if availability comes through.


You can prepay anytime you desire.  The amount to be paid is last year's MF.  The balance would be due by the end of the current year after you receive the statement.


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## IslandTime (Aug 27, 2019)

I would need to call though, right? There's not a way to pay early online?


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## bdh (Aug 27, 2019)

IslandTime said:


> I would need to call though, right? There's not a way to pay early online?



Correct: call the 800-GO-HYATT staff.  As KAL noted, you'll pay the same MF amount as last year for now - once next year's MF  is known, you'll then need to follow up with the GO HYATT staff and pay the difference.  The majority of the Hyatt resorts send out their annual resort accounting and prelim MF amounts in Sept - then the MF's are finalized by the respective HOA boards in early October - MF invoices are then emailed out in late October.


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## GTLINZ (Aug 30, 2019)

bdh said:


> Correct: call the 800-GO-HYATT staff.  As KAL noted, you'll pay the same MF amount as last year for now - once next year's MF  is known, you'll then need to follow up with the GO HYATT staff and pay the difference.  The majority of the Hyatt resorts send out their annual resort accounting and prelim MF amounts in Sept - then the MF's are finalized by the respective HOA boards in early October - MF invoices are then emailed out in late October.



I can confirm as I own a week 4 EOY at HPP.  My case is extreme due to being an early week but I call one year ahead pay the current year MF and am billed the difference during the next cycle which is about 10 months later.


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## Mr. Phil (Apr 30, 2020)

jjking42 said:


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Marriott and Hyatt have higher fees than Wyndham. Wyndham has more urban locations that keep fees lower than rural locations.


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## dagger1 (Apr 30, 2020)

Mr. Phil said:


> Marriott and Hyatt have higher fees than Wyndham. Wyndham has more urban locations that keep fees lower than rural locations.


Also the quality of the vast majority of Wyndham’s “resorts” aren’t even close to Marriott/Hyatt/Westin.  Maybe a handful of Wyndham’s can be called a resort...


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## btoby61 (May 6, 2020)

SteelerGal said:


> I wonder how f the other resorts have seen an increase.  I do know Hacienda is still not open. So they are paying full MF.


Just as a note,  my WLR in the Vistana system went up a little more than 10% from previous year ..


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## AJCts411 (May 7, 2020)

This may exist..but is there a definition of each line item? What can be can be charged to that account/line?


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## Mr. Phil (Jan 5, 2021)

SteelerGal said:


> Still waiting for ours to close.  Interested in why the increase in bad debt.


Bad debt is up all over, whether timeshare or condo associations, people are lapse on their dues.


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