# pics of the Westgate Planet Hollywood construction



## dougp26364 (Mar 8, 2008)

I know there's at least one owner that might be interested in how it's coming along and probably a few other Westgate owners who might be interested in the current construction of the newest Westgate resort. So I thought I'd post a couple of pictures here for anyone who wants to see how it's shaping up.


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 9, 2008)

Wow...that place is HUGE. They will be selling contracts forever.

Does anyone know the potential total dollar amount of sales vs the actual construction cost for this building. I am sure Westgate will make a HUGE profit on this project. I can't wait to trade into it when the spacebank it.


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

This is but ONE leg of the "H" of the building.

Click here to see it live.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 9, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Wow...that place is HUGE. They will be selling contracts forever.
> 
> Does anyone know the potential total dollar amount of sales vs the actual construction cost for this building. I am sure Westgate will make a HUGE profit on this project. I can't wait to trade into it when the spacebank it.




And just think, tower 1 isn't even topped out yet. Yes, I said tower 1. They plan on building two of these. I suspect those that exchange in will get the rooms that look right at each other. Because of the height it will give it the appearance of being able to reach out and shake hands with the guests in the other tower. 

Since it's going to be built like a narrow U, (no legs out the back that I can tell to make it look like an H) the Planet Hollywood sits in front of it and Marriott's Grand Chateau (38 stories tall) sits to the south of it, I wonder if the pool deck will get more than a couple of hours of sunlight during the day.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 9, 2008)

Here's some numbers for you to chew on. Total cost of tower 1 is 1.2 billion with 1,228 rooms. It is slated to open in the first quarter of 2009. Tower 2 will also have 1,228 with a cost TBD. There is not a slated completion date for tower 2 according the the LV Visitors and Convention site. When both towers are completed there will be 2,456 rooms.  

Planet Hollywood Towers by Westgate is not just a timeshare. There will be convention space and retail shops as well. I believe some of the units are going to be full ownership condo's. The towers are going to be 50 stories tall when completed. Presently they are working on the 38th floor of tower 1 and doing the foundation work for tower 2.


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> ...
> Total cost of tower 1 is 1.2 billion with 1,228 rooms. It is slated to open in the first quarter of 2009. Tower 2 will also have 1,228 with a cost TBD. There is not a slated completion date for tower 2 according the the LV Visitors and Convention site. When both towers are completed there will be 2,456 rooms.
> ...



We own a 4BR lockoff (Studio, 1BR, 2BR) on the highest timeshare floor (About 46th floor) of this tower and closest to The Strip (Far left end unit in this photo).  Week 52.

P.S.
Click here to see why we bought.  We can see the Bellagio Fountains between Planet Hollywood and the French Chateau building (Click video tour) every 15 minutes nightly during our stay.  The end units have a 270 degree view of The Strip.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 9, 2008)

PerryM said:


> We own a 4BR lockoff (Studio, 1BR, 2BR) on the highest timeshare floor (About 46th floor) of this tower and closest to The Strip (Far left end unit in this photo).  Week 52.
> 
> P.S.
> Click here to see why we bought...



That leaves only 2,452 room left to purchase. I guess the rest of us better hurry up and get ours then! 

With all the units this one will have, I'm surprised they don't have a stronger presence with the body snatchers on the strip. I still find it amusing that inside the Miracle Mile mall there are several booths for Consolidated's Tahiti Village but inside the PH casino it's PHT's. That really has to burn king David's hind end. 

I do need to correct one thing. The Vegas Today and Tomorrow website lists PHT as 50 stories but it will in fact be 52 stories. I guess they're not counting the first two floors which will be convention and retail space. They do the same with The Marriott listing it as 32 stories when it's actually 38.


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

Dubai World (Ports) just spent $5 B to buy half interest in the City Center which is right across the street.  These guys are some of the smartest people on this planet (we educated them at our best universities) so all those folks worrying about too many rooms in Vegas, rest in peace.  Lots of the oil money that should go to US stockholders go to the folks in Dubai who just buy up our country so the Porcupine Caribou can roam in peace.  How's your Arabic?


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## seatrout (Mar 9, 2008)

Wonder who own the travelodge and the nice strip center across the street from PH. 
Maybe we can do a Motel-condo/TS conversion of the place and make a few buck


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

seatrout said:


> Wonder who own the travelodge and the nice strip center across the street from PH.
> Maybe we can do a Motel-condo/TS conversion of the place and make a few buck



That land is worth $40 M an acre so only a casino complex can afford it when it's sold (which it probably has been many times) and folks wait for all the doom and gloom to end in November 2008, when miraculously every thing will be all right again.

We like to watch Las Vegas, the TV show, which has the Montecito, their fictional casino, resting in front, and surrounding, Marriott's Grand Chateau - I always chuckle when I see it.


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## seatrout (Mar 9, 2008)

Hope you are right with things turning around in Nov.  I am developing some office condo right now.  Only buyer so far is us.  Still got 20 to sell.  I am timming the completion date around Nov 08

Also with all this gloom and doom.  Occupancy rate in LV for hotel is still in the 90%+


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

seatrout said:


> Hope you are right with things turning around in Nov.  I am developing some office condo right now.  Only buyer so far is us.  Still got 20 to sell.  I am timming the completion date around Nov 08
> 
> Also with all this gloom and doom.  Occupancy rate in LV for hotel is still in the 90%+



Buy low, sell high is the ONLY way to make a profit.  When the Drive-By Media is beating the hell out of our country and economy they are doing a favor to those folks who step up and buy when the crowd is running away and demand to sell low.  Then they will be glad to sell to the crowd when it comes running back demanding to pay higher prices.

It's all very simple...the words of Donald Trump.

P.S.
Timeshares don't exist in a free market so the above does not apply here.


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## Fern Modena (Mar 9, 2008)

Perry,
The Bellagio waters are stupendous.  I recently saw them from the Eiffel Tower, and you know what?  Without the music they just aren't the same.

The official language of Dubai is Arabic.  Farsi is the language of Iran.  

We used to laugh when we'd see the Monticito in Vegas, because it used to move all over the strip.  Sometimes it would be in one place, sometimes in another.

Fern


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

Fern Modena said:


> Perry,
> The Bellagio waters are stupendous.  I recently saw them from the Eiffel Tower, and you know what?  Without the music they just aren't the same.
> 
> The official language of Dubai is Arabic.  Farsi is the language of Iran.
> ...




Now you tell me Fern, I'm going to have to learn Arabic....

First it was Russian I should learn, then Japanese, then Chinese, then Farci/////Arabic... Luckily I never learned any of them, they all speak the universal language of business - English.  (Well accept for those folks who scurry across our southern border who don't bother).   My son wisely took Spanish in high school and listens in on conversations the cleaning crew has in the elevator and chuckles and they chuckle when they realize he understands them...one of those fun things to do while vacationing.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 9, 2008)

seatrout said:


> Wonder who own the travelodge and the nice strip center across the street from PH.
> Maybe we can do a Motel-condo/TS conversion of the place and make a few buck




The comany that owns that land has announced plans to build a Vegas themed casino. They own the Travelodge, the land the HD Cafe sits on and the frontage all the way down to S&W's steakhouse. There are height restrictions and access restrictions on some of this land. There are also some long term lease agreements on some of these parcels that will need to be dealt with. 

Since 1992 that land has been flipped at least three times with no new developement being built on it. I'm not convinced the current owners will build their announced Elvis themed casino either. I believe they plan on sitting on the land and flipping it. 

As far as overbuilding Vegas, they've been saying that for years and it hasn't happened. What has happened is that the suits figured out how to seperate the trust fund kids from the $ with club's charging big dollars for bottle service. They also guessed that people can't do math and increased the house edge while decreasing comps. In the present state of the economy, they've already figured out they're going to need to do something to re-attract the mid-level gambler. 

Now, as far as hotel rooms vs timeshare rooms, that's apples to oranges. I'm not sure there's enough evidence to suggest that Vegas has as large a demand for timeshare rooms as for hotel rooms. Vegas is more of a 3 or 4 night destination than a week long destination. Timeshares that recognize that might do better with owners but, exchange companies aren't currently offering a lot in the way of partial week exchanges. Outside of Vegas I don't know there would be that much demand.

The demand index for Vegas in the I.I. book isn't that strong now. Will adding another 3,000 rooms right on the strip change that? I don't know. I do know that there are over 10,000 additional timeshare rooms planned for the Vegas by 2010. That's a LOT of timeshare units and will have an affected on the supply/demand index. To think that it won't affect it might be wishful thinking.

The supply demand will change enough in the next three years that I put out DRI units into their points program. Our HGVC units are points based as well. That leaves us with our Marriott ownership and, at least at this point, we plan on using it or doing internal exchanges within the Marriott system with it. For now it seems like the safest path to take and maintain a good value for our investment.


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

Fern Modena said:


> Perry,
> The Bellagio waters are stupendous.  I recently saw them from the Eiffel Tower, and you know what?  Without the music they just aren't the same.
> 
> ...
> Fern



When we bought our 4BR corner unit the plans called for a wrap around lanai (Balcony) where you could go out and sit and watch Vegas at night.

A few months after purchase we were notified that only the top 6, or so, floors would get the lanai, I still don't know if we will have one.

Westgate's insurance company informed them that they would not insure the building with all those lanais - too many jumpers!  That's why 99.9% of the rooms in Vegas have no lanai; people shooting craps.


So we might still hear the cannon fire if we luck out.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 9, 2008)

PerryM said:


> When we bought our 4BR corner unit the plans called for a wrap around lanai (Balcony) where you could go out and sit and watch Vegas at night.
> 
> A few months after purchase we were notified that only the top 6, or so, floors would get the lanai, I still don't know if we will have one.
> 
> ...



If there are 52 floors and you're on the 46th and they have balcony's for the top 6 floors, you'll be in luck. It's always hard to say from the artist's conceptual drawing but it looks as if only the top 4 floors may have balcony's. 

Even without the balcony you'll still have a great view. I've seen the fountains several times when I couldn't hear the music and still find it enjoyable.


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> If there are 52 floors and you're on the 46th and they have balcony's for the top 6 floors, you'll be in luck. It's always hard to say from the artist's conceptual drawing but it looks as if only the top 4 floors may have balcony's.
> 
> Even without the balcony you'll still have a great view. I've seen the fountains several times when I couldn't hear the music and still find it enjoyable.



My agreement with Westgate is that I get the highest timeshare unit in the building, they are still determining what floor that will be.  They are looking at selling a number of floors as whole-ownership.  However, if the economy softens they will just be timeshares.  They won't know until later this year.

P.S.
As far as I know I'm the ONLY 4BR owner in the front of the building.  Westgate sells 4BR units in the back of the "H" and the day we bought I negotiated a great deal (I was the first 4BR buyer of any kind).  Westgate is also looking at selling ALL the front 4BR units as whole-ownership.

As of Thanksgiving 2007 NO other 4BR front units have been released to be sold.

Basically they sold THE best unit in the resort for THE best week for THE lowest price.  That unit should have been the LAST unit sold in the resort 4 or 5 years from now.

Because of this error on Westgate's part the director of sales at Westgate Las Vegas was fired.  I just smile....


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## dougp26364 (Mar 9, 2008)

PerryM said:


> My agreement with Westgate is that I get the highest timeshare unit in the building, they are still determining what floor that will be.  They are looking at selling a number of floors as whole-ownership.  However, if the economy softens they will just be timeshares.  They won't know until later this year.
> 
> P.S.
> As far as I know I'm the ONLY 4BR owner in the front of the building.  Westgate sells 4BR units in the back of the "H" and the day we bought I negotiated a great deal (I was the first 4BR buyer of any kind).  Westgate is also looking at selling ALL the front 4BR units as whole-ownership.
> ...




From what I've read, there was a lot more to his downfall than that potential mistake. I believe he's now ruining the sales floor at Tahiti Village. 

You have a lot more faith in Westgate than I do. Apparently there's a lot left up in the air with your contract or, potentially a lot that you'll have to work to enforce with Westgate. Personally I hope it all works for you but I would never have pulled the trigger.


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> From what I've read, there was a lot more to his downfall than that potential mistake. I believe he's now ruining the sales floor at Tahiti Village.
> 
> You have a lot more faith in Westgate than I do. Apparently there's a lot left up in the air with your contract or, potentially a lot that you'll have to work to enforce with Westgate. Personally I hope it all works for you but I would never have pulled the trigger.



Obviously I disagree and I've got the contracts.


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## seatrout (Mar 9, 2008)

Perry

I am alittle confuse.  Thought you were a skier duing xmas/newyear
Although there are some sking in LV- it is quite a hike

When we go to LV, we did not get to see outside the window much-
There is eating and show and eating and show and then we do it again the next day.  It is one place that I neve used the kitchen.

i can imaging bying for the view in Maui-  But Vegas ??

There must be something magical happening in Vegas on week 52 that you can enlighten us on.  Is all the place on City Center whole ownership??


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

seatrout said:


> Perry
> 
> I am alittle confuse.  Thought you were a skier duing xmas/newyear
> Although there are some sking in LV- it is quite a hike
> ...



My son dragged me into snowboarding 13 years ago when he was 8 ("Dad, you don't expect me to learn how to snowboard by myself do you?")  and this next Christmas he will be snowboarding with his frat brothers (21 years old) so my wife and I will be looking for something else to do Christmas/New Years week.  We go to Maui for 2 weeks in Feb.

I suspect that getting my son and his frat brothers or business friends or family to spend New Years in Vegas in a 2BR and 1BR won't be hard to do.  We just need the studio.

P.S.
The coolest thing about the ph unit is the washer/dryer which hides under the sink in the bathroom.  It's one of those ultra high efficiency/low water usage models from Europe.  There is just one unit that tumble washes the cloths and automatically dries them in the one unit.  Just throw in the cloths, softener, and soap and you can then go out and get cleaned by the casinos while the unit cleans your cloths.  Vegas thinks of everything.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 9, 2008)

PerryM said:


> Obviously I disagree and I've got the contracts.




Yes you do and, if what I'm understanding is correct and if I think you hold what you say you hold, they may be wanting that unit back......I'm sure there will be a premium they have to pay to get it back from you if that's the case. I can also see why they would let a sales director go as that would have been a huge mistake. 

It seems to be a very interesting situation you have on your hands.......or I could be reading this all wrong.


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## PerryM (Mar 9, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> Yes you do and, if what I'm understanding is correct and if I think you hold what you say you hold, they may be wanting that unit back......I'm sure there will be a premium they have to pay to get it back from you if that's the case. I can also see why they would let a sales director go as that would have been a huge mistake.
> 
> It seems to be a very interesting situation you have on your hands.......or I could be reading this all wrong.


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## Darlene (Mar 10, 2008)

Any idea what your m/f will be?  
Darlene


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## PerryM (Mar 10, 2008)

Darlene said:


> Any idea what your m/f will be?
> Darlene



The 4BR is 2,500* sq ft, sleeps 14, and a MF of $973.

*This is the average.  The units get larger the higher you go until they approach 2,800 sq ft.  I have no idea what our unit size will be at this date.

Locks off into 3 units/weeks as a Studio, 1BR, and 2BR.


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 10, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> Yes you do and, if what I'm understanding is correct and if I think you hold what you say you hold, they may be wanting that unit back......I'm sure there will be a premium they have to pay to get it back from you if that's the case. I can also see why they would let a sales director go as that would have been a huge mistake.
> 
> It seems to be a very interesting situation you have on your hands.......or I could be reading this all wrong.



What happens if Westgate cancels your contract and offers you your deposit back...sorry we made a few changes. This happens all the time in Florida with pre-construction sales sometimes they give deposit + 3% interest. Sometimes they just go bankrupt.

I doubt a sales director of a $500m+ building would be fired for one mix-up. There must be a pattern or they weren't selling enough units.


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## PerryM (Mar 10, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> What happens if Westgate cancels your contract and offers you your deposit back...sorry we made a few changes. This happens all the time in Florida with pre-construction sales sometimes they give deposit + 3% interest. Sometimes they just go bankrupt.
> 
> I doubt a sales director of a $500m+ building would be fired for one mix-up. There must be a pattern or they weren't selling enough units.



Paid in full.  I fulfilled my part of the contract, we will see what Westgate does.  I'm not worried about this issue, or the economy, or the housing market, or global cooling or flying saucers....

As to the firing of the sales director - I can only go by what 4 sales guys told me at Thanksgiving - my contract for unreleased inventory was the reason.  Maybe there was more, but that's what 4 guys there told me.  With the economy being beat up by the Drive By Media I imagine that the 4BR end units facing The Strip will be released as timeshares and this will be no problem.


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## Darlene (Mar 10, 2008)

I would be more worried about where I would find 14 friends to go to Las Vegas with me for New Year's.  That's not a bad M/F for a 4 bedroom.  I bet there are lock-off fees, too.  Perry, how many weeks do you own now?  I have trouble just using the 3 weeks, plus 2 AC's I get already! 
Darlene


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## PerryM (Mar 10, 2008)

Darlene said:


> I would be more worried about where I would find 14 friends to go to Las Vegas with me for New Year's.  That's not a bad M/F for a 4 bedroom.  I bet there are lock-off fees, too.  Perry, how many weeks do you own now?  I have trouble just using the 3 weeks, plus 2 AC's I get already!
> Darlene



I own a lot and use them all during the year - one way or the other.


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## seatrout (Mar 10, 2008)

Thought you are an annual skier at that time of the year.  I guess there will be one more for us at Parkcity 

The maintenance fees sound cheap- Does not include tax I would think.
Care to post how much these thing goes for ?? if not PM me.


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## PerryM (Mar 10, 2008)

seatrout said:


> Thought you are an annual skier at that time of the year.  I guess there will be one more for us at Parkcity
> 
> The maintenance fees sound cheap- Does not include tax I would think.
> Care to post how much these thing goes for ?? if not PM me.



Probably doesn't include Nevada taxes and hopefully we will be able to use this New Year's week so I will find out then.  I'm guessing that we will miss this year but might be able to get a week with just a MF that can be used in 2009 sometime.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 10, 2008)

PerryM said:


> Probably doesn't include Nevada taxes and hopefully we will be able to use this New Year's week so I will find out then.  I'm guessing that we will miss this year but might be able to get a week with just a MF that can be used in 2009 sometime.



Even if it doesn't include NV taxes, the taxes won't make that much difference. We own 3 two bedroom units in Vegas and 1 three bedroom unit. I think the proprety taxes for all 4 properties is still less than $200.

I can think of lot's of uses for a 4 bedroom unit in Vegas at what will be one of the very best locations in town. Week 52 is the highest demand/supply week according to I.I. The big question is will Westgate try to weasel out of depositing that exact week and force Perry to accept a less desirable week if he exchanges? The other question of course is will they allow him to exchange his view or will they try to force his unit into the pool of exchanges which would mean that his unit would have no more exchange power than a low floor unit with an interior view of the second tower. With Westgate you never know what rules they'll try to change or what they'll try to do. 

On the other hand there's renting out that unit. Now that's where the economy and the drive by media come into play. If people aren't willing to spend the money then profits could go down. But, $932 in MF's is cheap.
Week 52 is very high demand, high floor strip view is an excellent unit location. The unit can be broken up into 4 seperate units to rent. This this timeshare is attached to a casino/resort. No matter how bad the economy tanks I would like to think Perry will, at a minimum be able to cover the MF's if he so chooses and probably be able to get considerably more. 

Westgate, if I'm not mistaken, has been exercising ROFR on it's units. For someone selling a highly desirable unit style and location this will only add value. The trick is, as pointed out in a post before, is to buy low and sell high. It's called speculation and only time will tell how all of this works out. 

All I can say is that Perry has my attention. The more time that passes and the more I understand what's happened the more I can appreciate the position he's put himself in. Personally, I wouldn't have the brass cahoney's to pull the trigger but it's interesting watching someone else manipulate the timeshare weasel's.


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## PerryM (Mar 10, 2008)

*Me, I'm happy with our purchase...*

I know the TUG dogma is “Don’t buy from the developer” and that’s fine.  I won’t try to convince anyone that dealing with timeshare salesreps is easy – it isn’t.

However, I’ve been to about 80 timeshare sales tours in 9 years of timeshare ownership – I consider myself to be an equal match to those reps; more than equal.

We just lucked into taking our Westgate tour while staying at the Marriott Grand Chateau 100 yards away.  We also lucked into taking the tour and accidently being classified as an existing Westgate owner (how did that happen?) and we also lucked into the fact that they had never sold a 4BR unit of any kind and it was the end of the month and they desperately needed to sell a 4BR to someone.  

I talked with the GM of the project, the sales manager of that region (the guy who got fired), the sales honcho for the project, the floor sales manager, and finally our sales rep.  I told them what I wanted – the best unit for sale during the project life.  I wanted a bunch of things put in writing and got them.  I wanted the employee sales price which they showed me.

I got what I wanted and bought.  That’s how business is done in America.

Now there sure could be all kind of “What if” games we could play but I’m happy and time will tell.

If you never go on these sales tours you won’t stumble into “Luck” and get a once-in-a-lifetime deal that I believe we got.  I believe all those sales tours we go on prepared us for this deal.

Did I get screwed?  Some may think so without knowing ANY details and simply want to act the expert – "never buy from the developer".  Me, it’s a case by case examination and we continue our sales tours looking for something that we can’t pass up.

I can tell folks that pre-construction opportunities and pricing are real with some developers.  Negotiating with some developers works.  You will never know if you never present your requirements to the salesrep and wait for a Yes or No.

P.S.
We will NEVER use this unit for an II exchange.  I plan on using this unit for our own usage over the years.  Part will be rented to pay for the MFs, part will be used to reward clients/friends/family and part we plan to use.


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 10, 2008)

PerryM said:


> We will NEVER use this unit for an II exchange.  I plan on using this unit for our own usage over the years.  Part will be rented to pay for the MFs, part will be used to reward clients/*friends*/family and part we plan to use.



Perry...we are friends, correct?


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## dougp26364 (Mar 10, 2008)

PerryM said:


> I know the TUG dogma is “Don’t buy from the developer” and that’s fine.  I won’t try to convince anyone that dealing with timeshare salesreps is easy – it isn’t.
> 
> However, I’ve been to about 80 timeshare sales tours in 9 years of timeshare ownership – I consider myself to be an equal match to those reps; more than equal.
> 
> ...



Perry,

You know I've been following your story since you announced that you purchased. Mostly because I want to understand more than question what you've done. However, I find I must play devils advocate in order to understand why you've felt all along that this is a good deal.

What I've learned is that you spend a great deal more time than the average person is willing to put into the timeshare market. The divorce attorny would cost far more than any timeshare I could buy when  it comes to getting my wife to go on these things. Personally, I consider it a challange and a way to learn. If my wife cuold stand it I'd have taken timeshare tours with every company I could find while we've been on vacation. As it is, I must relagate myself to learning through others experience.

Financially I'm not in the same positiion as you are. Something like what you stumbled into could present itself and I'd be helpless to act. Some might call it luck but I've always understood that luck is the residue of hard work. You've obviously put in the work.


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## PerryM (Mar 10, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Perry...we are friends, correct?



Bill who?


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## PerryM (Mar 10, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> Perry,
> 
> You know I've been following your story since you announced that you purchased. Mostly because I want to understand more than question what you've done. However, I find I must play devils advocate in order to understand why you've felt all along that this is a good deal.
> 
> ...



I paid for a week 52 4BR 2,500 sq ft condo that gives us 3 weeks in Vegas for LESS than the folks who buy a normal week in a 2BR at the Westin timeshare (WKROV) in Maui.

I first negotiated a similar deal with Westgate for a week 52 2BR at ph.  I then started for something that can ONLY be sold once - and I believe I got it.

It's all relative...

P.S.
I forget to mention that at the time the 4BR Week 52 Westgate I bought was very close to the same price as the 3BR Week 52 at the Marriott 100 yards away.  Granted I'd probably not buy from Marriott but to get a Week 52 I might have to.


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## seatrout (Mar 10, 2008)

Perry

I am too -- trying to understand the logic.  Granted you got a good price.

What is it about LV during week 52 ??Is it something like timesquare in NY ?
How is the showgirl and casino any different week 50 vs 52? 

Not being a location you want to bring kids- I would think that school holidays 
does not affect the occupancy of people in LV

I can imagine spending 3wk in Maui- -but 3wk in Vegas ?? 
When we were there last- I was worned out after all the show and eating after a few days. 

I have a friend that run one of the casino there.  He live in one of those penhouse with balcony. he said that for the casino- in a study-  they like NO WINDOWS-  that way, gamble loose any track of time and space and tend to stay longer. he also said that his unit was one of the very few with the balcony.


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## dougp26364 (Mar 10, 2008)

seatrout said:


> Perry
> 
> I am too -- trying to understand the logic.  Granted you got a good price.
> 
> ...



NYE in Vegas is extremely popular and in high demand. 

Vegas is what you make it. We've spent at least one week here since '98. If you run and party all the time, it can wear you out and suck all the money out of your pockets. If you use it like a weeks vacation, slow down and take time to relax it can be a great place to spend some time. All of the top performers come through Vegas. Vegas has some of the top chefs and restaurants anywhere. Many of the worlds largest hotels are here and, there's Mt. Charleston (snow skiing), Lake Mead and Valley of Fire state park to see. We learned several years ago not to try to run 24/7 while we're here.


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## seatrout (Mar 10, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> We learned several years ago not to try to run 24/7 while we're here.



It is tough. We think we are in our twenties  again in vegas.

On the island.  Time slow down and stand still-- and you see infinite space.
On the strip. Time become disorienting while space is at a premium.


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## PerryM (Mar 11, 2008)

seatrout said:


> Perry
> 
> I am too -- trying to understand the logic.  Granted you got a good price.
> 
> ...



I don't see us spending 3 weeks in Vegas - 1 week and rent a week and someone else use the week, family, friends, clients, etc.  All 3 may happen New Year's week.


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## Steamboat Bill (Mar 11, 2008)

Here is a potential method to PerryM's madness.

These are "unconfirmed prices" as I have no idea what the real prices are.

Assume a purchase price of $50,000
Assume annual dues of $1,000
Thus, 5% of $50,000 = $2,500 + $1,000 = $3,500 yearly carry cost

Assume rental of $200 per night (for week 52) = $1,400 x 4 rooms = $5,600 rent for the entire 4 bedroom or split into 4 studios or two 2 bedrooms, etc.

$5,600 - $3,500 = $2,100 profit per year.

Assume that he can resell the timeshare for $65,000 after 1-2 years as he bought the lowest pre-construction price = $15,000 in long term capital gains (taxed at 15%).

Thus, there is a method to PerryM's madness for buying "directly from Westgate"


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## PerryM (Mar 11, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Here is a potential method to PerryM's madness.
> 
> These are "unconfirmed prices" as I have no idea what the real prices are.
> 
> ...



Numbers are numbers in the eye of the beholder - I bought simply because I asked for and got the best unit in the resort (In my opinion, your's might be different) and at the lowest price I thought I could get.  

Waiting for this resale would take 30+ years so I saw no reason to wait for that resale, if it ever should occur.  This is one reason to buy from the developer - a hard to get unit in the resale market.

The Marriott units we bought 8 years ago were eventually sold (at a break even or profit) since I found ways to get right back to those very units for 1/10 the investment.  This might be the case here and I won't know if I lose money, break even, or make a profit until that day comes.

Until then our MF seems low and we plan to actually enjoy the ownership and not fret over it.  

I am amazed that we have had 44 posts and the truly hate-bashing Westgate folks haven't turned this into a circus.  A kinder and gentler group in this forum?


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## dougp26364 (Mar 11, 2008)

PerryM said:


> Numbers are numbers in the eye of the beholder - I bought simply because I asked for and got the best unit in the resort (In my opinion, your's might be different) and at the lowest price I thought I could get.
> 
> Waiting for this resale would take 30+ years so I saw no reason to wait for that resale, if it ever should occur.  This is one reason to buy from the developer - a hard to get unit in the resale market.
> 
> ...



I agree that you have purchased the best location an best unit to own at this resort. It will be a great unit with one of the very best (if not the best) location for a timeshare in Vegas (at least for now). No doubt you've purchased at the lowest possible price for this unit type/location. You could have waited a very long time hoping to see this particular unit in this particular location come up as a resale unit. Plus, there is the very real possibility of covering your costs by renting out what you don't use.


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## gmarine (Mar 11, 2008)

Steamboat Bill said:


> Here is a potential method to PerryM's madness.
> 
> These are "unconfirmed prices" as I have no idea what the real prices are.
> 
> ...



Your assuming the unit could be sold resale at 15% higher than it was purchased. For him to get that price, the developer price would have to be considerably higher.
Even assuming the developer price rose to $80K, you would be lucky to get $45K resale. 

If I remember the original thread about this, Perry paid somewhere in the $90K+ range and I posted prices I was quoted after calling Westgate. Perry thought the prices I posted were employee pricing or something to that effect, which they were not. 

Bottom line is that if Perry is happy with his purchase then good for him. But assuming he is going to make money selling the unit resale is very, very overly optimistic.


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## PerryM (Mar 11, 2008)

gmarine said:


> Your assuming the unit could be sold resale at 15% higher than it was purchased. For him to get that price, the developer price would have to be considerably higher.
> Even assuming the developer price rose to $80K, you would be lucky to get $45K resale.
> 
> If I remember the original thread about this, Perry paid somewhere in the $90K+ range and I posted prices I was quoted after calling Westgate. Perry thought the prices I posted were employee pricing or something to that effect, which they were not.
> ...



I've never said what I paid for the unit since that was part of my agreement with Westgate.  Folks can guess if that makes them happy.


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## gmarine (Mar 11, 2008)

PerryM said:


> I've never said what I paid for the unit since that was part of my agreement with Westgate.  Folks can guess if that makes them happy.



Very true. However you had posted what you said was the developer price, which if I remember right, you said was $100K plus. You said you made a special deal with Westgate for less and all that stuff. I cant go back and refer to the previous thread because you deleted all of your posts in that thread.

At that time I posted the prices I received from WG and you said those prices were WG employee only, which they were not, they were available for anyone.

You also were so high on WG because you said it was being managed by Starwood, which it is not. 

All the talk of some super secret special deal with WG is a bit over the top.  And adding that part of your agreement was that you werent allowed to tell anyone the price only adds to the feeling that you have embellished some of the story.  

If your happy with the purchase ultimately thats all that matters.
I wish you the best with the it and hope it works out the way you want.


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## PerryM (Mar 11, 2008)

gmarine said:


> Very true. However you had posted what you said was the developer price, which if I remember right, you said was $100K plus. You said you made a special deal with Westgate for less and all that stuff. I cant go back and refer to the previous thread because you deleted all of your posts in that thread.
> 
> At that time I posted the prices I received from WG and you said those prices were WG employee only, which they were not, they were available for anyone.
> 
> ...



I'm happy you're happy for me - guessing is a lot of fun I guess.

I'm thinking of a number between....


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## gmarine (Mar 11, 2008)

PerryM said:


> I'm happy you're happy for me - guessing is a lot of fun I guess.
> 
> I'm thinking of a number between....



Probably right around the number that I was quoted by WG. 

Oh, yeah I forgot. What I was quoted back then was special WG employee only pricing.   And you were the only person in world who got this super secret deal and everyone involved got fired etc. Cmon, Perry, seriously, you have helped me alot with Worldmark and I appreciate it, but you have to admit the story is a bit much.


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## PerryM (Mar 11, 2008)

gmarine said:


> Probably right around the number that I was quoted by WG.
> 
> Oh, yeah I forgot. What I was quoted back then was special WG employee only pricing.   And you were the only person in world who got this super secret deal and everyone involved got fired etc. Cmon, Perry, seriously, you have helped me alot with Worldmark and I appreciate it, but you have to admit the story is a bit much.



I'm not sure what the fascination is about a figure that I've not given and that you disagree with?  I don't divulge the topics I help you with to others and I did not reveal the figure to the public that you disagree with; I try to keep my word.  This is a bit surreal for me.

Ok, that number I'm thinking of you can disagree with too if that makes you happy.  Let me know other numbers you would like to disagree about.  I try to help folks the best I can.  This is not my normal field of expertise but I'm game if you are 

P.S.
I think part of the problem with all this is the simple fact that the prices quoted by Westgate were for the BACK of the building 4BRs units.  These units did NOT have a view of The Strip but looked away towards the airport.

I bought a unit that as of last year was not sold or released for pricing - the FRONT of the building facing The Strip.  That is exactly why I bought it.  Just look at the difference between ocean view/front and mountain/garden view at beach front timeshares.  The difference in price is huge.

This is why the director of sales was fired - his first 4BR sale was for the wrong part of the building - the front.  They were selling the back part of the building 4BRs.  So one 4BR condo in the front of the building has week 52 missing; that would be me.


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## gmarine (Mar 11, 2008)

PerryM said:


> I'm not sure what the fascination is about a figure that I've not given and that you disagree with?  I don't divulge the topics I help you with to others and I did not reveal the figure to the public that you disagree with; I try to keep my word.  This is a bit surreal for me.
> 
> Ok, that number I'm thinking of you can disagree with too if that makes you happy.  Let me know other numbers you would like to disagree about.  I try to help folks the best I can.  This is not my normal field of expertise but I'm game if you are
> 
> ...



Are you sure you didnt fall victim to a slick salesperson?


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## spatenfloot (Mar 12, 2008)

gmarine said:


> And you were the only person in world who got this super secret deal and everyone involved got fired etc.


Not everyone got fired. Remember, one person got hit by a car or bus.


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## adamsph (Mar 28, 2008)

*ph*

ph  trade two for one  on  ii  also  so if  he  has 3 week  hell get  6  in  trade    location location  location


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## dougp26364 (Mar 29, 2008)

adamsph said:


> ph  trade two for one  on  ii  also  so if  he  has 3 week  hell get  6  in  trade    location location  location




Maybe. AC's are not guarenteed. Marriott, which is directly across the street, does not get AC's for their deposits. Oddly enough, Polo Towers, which is directly in front of the Marriott but not as nice a resort (IMO), does still get AC's for some weeks but not all weeks. 

More and more I'm convinced that AC's have something to do with what sort of deal the developer, HOA or BOD at certain resorts cuts with I.I. There is no rhyme or reason for PT's to get AC's when Marriott does not as far as I'm concerned.


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## maddC (Jun 24, 2008)

dougp26364 said:


> And just think, tower 1 isn't even topped out yet. Yes, I said tower 1. They plan on building two of these. I suspect those that exchange in will get the rooms that look right at each other. Because of the height it will give it the appearance of being able to reach out and shake hands with the guests in the other tower.
> 
> Since it's going to be built like a narrow U, (no legs out the back that I can tell to make it look like an H) the Planet Hollywood sits in front of it and Marriott's Grand Chateau (38 stories tall) sits to the south of it, I wonder if the pool deck will get more than a couple of hours of sunlight during the day.



Apparently they are supposed to be slightly "shifted"  so no room is staring at another room.  Each is supposed to have an unobstructed view.


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