# Which Resorts in II Pool are Marriott Equivalent or Better



## NYFLTRAVELER (Sep 7, 2013)

Which brands found on II (e.g. Starwood, Hyatt, independents) are on the level of a MVCI property or higher caliber?

I have been to a couple of II properties in the past and would say that a Motel 6 was nicer than some of them.


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## ilene13 (Sep 7, 2013)

We have exchanged into the Grand Luxxe in the Mayan Riviera.  It is as nice or nicer than my Marriott timeshares.  The owners there said their property in Nuevo Vallarta was even nicer.  We are going there in November!!  Daily maid service, turndown service, a concierge on every floor of each building.  Incredible restaurants-- try it!


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Sep 7, 2013)

To have an opportunity to trade into an II Premier property what must you trade out from Marriott (as DC points member)?


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## answeeney (Sep 7, 2013)

I think it is impossible to give a general answer to this as there are so many resorts and such a wide range of standards. Even Marriott resorts are not all equal (although few will agree on any ranking).

However, some random observations based on my limited experience:

The big names, Hilton, Disney, Westin, Club Intrawest are generally pretty good and are probably broadly equivalent to Marriott. Diamond resorts are and exception to the rule of thumb as they have some wel below par resorts.

There are some smaller chains that are as good too - Grand Lodge on Peak 7 and Grand Timber Lodge at Breckenridge are examples that spring to mind.

Most (non Marriott) resorts in Europe will disappoint - even those classed as gold by II.


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## Fasttr (Sep 7, 2013)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> To have an opportunity to trade into an II Premier property what must you trade out from Marriott (as DC points member)?



I think you are asking the same question that you did HERE.   The points you would give up is all based on the TDI, room size, etc.  Review the post, then do some searching on II as suggested by dioxide45 in post #4 of that thread.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Sep 7, 2013)

Thank you. Let me rephrase - do destination club (trust) points have the potential to get you anything at all from the Interval premier collection (let's use the above suggestion of the Mayan Riveria resort mentioned above) Or do they generally convert to general run of the mill properties if anything?


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## Fasttr (Sep 7, 2013)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> Thank you. Let me rephrase - do destination club (trust) points have the potential to get you anything at all from the Interval premier collection (let's use the above suggestion of the Mayan Riveria resort mentioned above) Or do they generally convert to general run of the mill properties if anything?



As mentioned in the other thread, most TUGgers are owners of weeks, so if they are going to exchange via II, they do it with their weeks.  You likely won't find many here who have made the exchange with points.  That said, all you can do is put in your request with II for the specific resorts/weeks you desire and see what comes through.  When you make a request via II, you provide them with specific resorts/weeks you want...you don't just get any random resort they give you.  You can always cancel after a few months and get your points back if your request for your desired resort/week does not come through in an acceptable timeframe for you.


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## ilene13 (Sep 7, 2013)

I did not use points to exchange into the Grand Luxxe, in fact I used my Royal Resort weeks for the exchange.  I never give up Aruba or Hilton Head!


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## answeeney (Sep 7, 2013)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> Thank you. Let me rephrase - do destination club (trust) points have the potential to get you anything at all from the Interval premier collection (let's use the above suggestion of the Mayan Riveria resort mentioned above) Or do they generally convert to general run of the mill properties if anything?



Destination club points have the potential to pull any II resort, whether premier or not and whether Marriott or otherwise. The number of points you have to put on the line to pull a particular resort does not depend on its premier status but rather on its size and TDI. BTW I think all (or nearly all?) Marriott resorts are classed as premier. I don't think II have any Motel 6 units available so if that is your preference you may be out of luck.


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## thinze3 (Sep 7, 2013)

The Royals in Mexico are rated as high or higher than Marriotts.

http://www.royalresorts.com/stay-with-us.asp


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## Bill4728 (Sep 7, 2013)

answeeney said:


> Destination club points have the potential to pull any II resort, whether premier or not and whether Marriott or otherwise. The number of points you have to put on the line to pull a particular resort does not depend on its premier status but rather on its size and TDI. BTW I think all (or nearly all?) Marriott resorts are classed as premier. I don't think II have any Motel 6 units available so if that is your preference you may be out of luck.


I don't think that is true.

Marriott TS generally have a filter on them so they can not see lower quality resorts. 

I have several II resorts. When I do search with my Marriott week I see very different results than with my Monarch Grand weeks. Several resorts of higher quality are there with my Marriott week but several other resorts disappear due to the quality filter.


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## pafort (Sep 7, 2013)

the "Gran Palacio de Isora" in Tenerife Island, by Melià Vacations Club is better, but is not II (RCI)

Paolo


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## dioxide45 (Sep 7, 2013)

answeeney said:


> Destination club points have the potential to pull any II resort, whether premier or not and whether Marriott or otherwise. The number of points you have to put on the line to pull a particular resort does not depend on its premier status but rather on its size and TDI. BTW I think all (or nearly all?) Marriott resorts are classed as premier. I don't think II have any Motel 6 units available so if that is your preference you may be out of luck.



Actually, one can't use DC points in II to pull other Marriott resorts. You must use DC points to exchange in to other Marriott's through the Destinations Program. Not through II.


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## answeeney (Sep 7, 2013)

Bill4728 said:


> Marriott TS generally have a filter on them so they can not see lower quality resorts.



That makes sense but, I guess as the OP is aiming for quality, the filter should help.


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## answeeney (Sep 7, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> Actually, one can't use DC points in II to pull other Marriott resorts. You must use DC points to exchange in to other Marriott's through the Destinations Program. Not through II.



If you want to be strictly accurate the Marriott resorts in II can be pulled with DC points via the DC exchange system.


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## NYFLTRAVELER (Sep 7, 2013)

answeeney said:


> Destination club points have the potential to pull any II resort, whether premier or not and whether Marriott or otherwise. The number of points you have to put on the line to pull a particular resort does not depend on its premier status but rather on its size and TDI. BTW I think all (or nearly all?) Marriott resorts are classed as premier. I don't think II have any Motel 6 units available so if that is your preference you may be out of luck.



My Motel 6 comment was an analogy. I have exchanged a Marriott in the past for an II exchange and the quality of that non Marriott property and the room itself was certainly lower caliber.


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## bogey21 (Sep 7, 2013)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> ........and would say that a Motel 6 was nicer than some of them.



My experience has been that if you pick your spots carefully, a Motel 6 can be a nice alternative for a party of 2 or less for 2 or 3 night stays.

George


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 7, 2013)

ilene13 said:


> We have exchanged into the Grand Luxxe in the Mayan Riviera.  It is as nice or nicer than my Marriott timeshares.  The owners there said their property in Nuevo Vallarta was even nicer.  We are going there in November!!  Daily maid service, turndown service, a concierge on every floor of each building.  Incredible restaurants-- try it!



I hear there are many nice resorts in Mexico, but I personally wouldn't take my family there as there have been too many bad stories out of Mexico to have us feel safe enough. I know its probably irrational but I like being better safe than sorry when it comes to the well-being of my family.


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## dioxide45 (Sep 7, 2013)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I hear there are many nice resorts in Mexico, but I personally wouldn't take my family there as there have been too many bad stories out of Mexico to have us feel safe enough. I know its probably irrational but I like being better safe than sorry when it comes to the well-being of my family.



I personally think it is irrational. Cancun and the Mexican Riviera is very safe and I have never felt unsafe there. Uneasy yes, just as I did in New York Times Square, but never unsafe. There are places in Mexico I wouldn't travel to, but they are a thousand miles or more from Quintana Roo (the Mexican state where Cancun and Playa del Carmen are located).


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## dioxide45 (Sep 7, 2013)

answeeney said:


> If you want to be strictly accurate the Marriott resorts in II can be pulled with DC points via the DC exchange system.



Not sure I understand what you mean. Are you suggesting that the MVC Exchange Company is actually outsourced through II? Or that MVCI can pull the weeks from II to fulfill DC exchange requests?


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## LAX Mom (Sep 7, 2013)

I've stayed at the following properties that are Marriott quality or better:

Four Seasons (Aviara & Troon North)

Fairmont Franz Klammer Lodge (Telluride, CO)

Westins in Hawaii (Maui & Kauai)

Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch (San Antonio)

Club Intrawest (Whistler)

Harborside at Atlantis


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## dickgregory (Sep 7, 2013)

I personally agree with MOXJO7282 on this one and believe his thinking is quite rational.  There's simply no chance I'd take my children to Mexico, even though I own timeshare there.


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## ilene13 (Sep 7, 2013)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I hear there are many nice resorts in Mexico, but I personally wouldn't take my family there as there have been too many bad stories out of Mexico to have us feel safe enough. I know its probably irrational but I like being better safe than sorry when it comes to the well-being of my family.



We go to Mexico at least three times a year.  We are usually in Cancun or the Mayan Riviera.  The areas are quite safe.  I have friends who were mugged in St Maarten.  We had someone break into our timeshare in the Bahamas and he held a machete to my neck.  We have not returned to Freeport but many people still travel there!


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## siesta (Sep 7, 2013)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I hear there are many nice resorts in Mexico, but I personally wouldn't take my family there as there have been too many bad stories out of Mexico to have us feel safe enough. I know its probably irrational but I like being better safe than sorry when it comes to the well-being of my family.


 yes, very irrational, unless you are planning on visiting ciudad juarez, reynosa, or any other border cities where cartels are fighting over drug routes. The only tourist city to be avoided due to drug route feuds is Acapulco, unfortunately thats a big port for drug shipments and has seen an uptick in violence.

Not visiting an entire country(Mexico) because of border and rural violence is almost as close minded as not visiting Chicago because we are one of the murder capitals ofthe country, when the fact is most of our citys violence is concentrated in the south and west sides were the most poverty stricken areas are located. Apparently people are more open minded, because there is never a shortage of tourists in my way standing in the middle of the sidewalk staring straight up. And im sure you have no problems visiting here with your family, when im willing to bet statistically tourists in Chicago(or any major US city)  are robbed, raped, beaten, stabbed, and murdered more than American tourists in Mexico.

What would you say to an Australian who says "I wont visit America because of its high violent crime rates.". Because I can assure you, they are saying this, especially after that young australian boy was gunned down by two teen minors who "were bored"

“People thinking of going to the USA for business or tourists trips should think carefully about it given the statistical fact you are 15 times more likely to be shot dead in the USA than in Australia per capita per million people,” the former prime minister said.

Now, doesnt that sound silly?


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## dioxide45 (Sep 7, 2013)

thinze3 said:


> The Royals in Mexico are rated as high or higher than Marriotts.
> 
> http://www.royalresorts.com/stay-with-us.asp



We have never stayed at the Royals, but did stay at the Westin Lagunamar. Quality wise, I would put it on par with Marriott. It is slightly better though IMO because the studio units are much better appointed than a traditional Marriott studio. I could stay two weeks in the WLR studio, but a Marriott studio would be rough for two weeks.

There are a lot of great other non Marriott resorts out there, or so we have heard/read. We have only ever visited one non Marriott, the Westin in Cancun. We have our first stay in a HGVC in November and am looking forward to trying another system outside of MVCI. The problem now with not staying in the MVCI system is that we have to pay an exchange fee, where if we stay within the MVCI system all exchanges are free in DC. It makes picking a non Marriott a little tougher if there is a Marriott where we plan to travel.


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## Fasttr (Sep 7, 2013)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I hear there are many nice resorts in Mexico, but I personally wouldn't take my family there as there have been too many bad stories out of Mexico to have us feel safe enough. I know its probably irrational but I like being better safe than sorry when it comes to the well-being of my family.



Since feeling safe is a personal issue, and you find Mexico to be a concern, it seems rational to me that you would choose to go elsewhere and eliminate that concern from the equation.  Vacation time is much too precious, and there are so many great destinations to choose from, why would you go somewhere where you were on edge.  I get it.

And to support your concerns, I work for a generic pharmaceutical company who has manufacturing vendors in China, India, all over Europe, New Zeeland, South Korea, etc, etc and there is only one country that our company has a travel ban to....and that is Mexico.  So you are not alone with your concerns.


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## ScubaKat (Sep 7, 2013)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I hear there are many nice resorts in Mexico, but I personally wouldn't take my family there as there have been too many bad stories out of Mexico to have us feel safe enough. I know its probably irrational but I like being better safe than sorry when it comes to the well-being of my family.



My husband shares your concern and refuses to let me book anything for Mexico.  There are many other places we would like to visit so I haven't pushed the issue.  I also want to visit Egypt some day and he thinks I am crazy with their current state of affairs too..


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## jin (Sep 8, 2013)

dioxide45 said:


> We have never stayed at the Royals, but did stay at the Westin Lagunamar. Quality wise, I would put it on par with Marriott. It is slightly better though IMO because the studio units are much better appointed than a traditional Marriott studio. I could stay two weeks in the WLR studio, but a Marriott studio would be rough for two weeks.
> 
> There are a lot of great other non Marriott resorts out there, or so we have heard/read. We have only ever visited one non Marriott, the Westin in Cancun. We have our first stay in a HGVC in November and am looking forward to trying another system outside of MVCI. The problem now with not staying in the MVCI system is that we have to pay an exchange fee, where if we stay within the MVCI system all exchanges are free in DC. It makes picking a non Marriott a little tougher if there is a Marriott where we plan to travel.



Wow, I was shocked to see u have only been to 1 resort outside of Marriot given your vast knowledge base on so many timeshare issues!  I am very confident u will like Hgvc, I own both Marriott and HGVC and both are of equivalent quality in my opinion.  I like Westins a tad more, but actually agree with the earlier poster on the Grand Luxxe -- we were afraid to go to Mexico till we went to this resort -- I think it beats all the above systems hands down ( I dont own there, but have stayed there 3 times and we love their quality!!).  Hgvc you must of either gotten a direct trade an hgvc owner or gotten it through rci as they r not in II.  If u count RCI in the OP's question I would also add the Residences at the Crane...


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## GregT (Sep 8, 2013)

NYFLTRAVELER said:


> Which brands found on II (e.g. Starwood, Hyatt, independents) are on the level of a MVCI property or higher caliber?
> 
> I have been to a couple of II properties in the past and would say that a Motel 6 was nicer than some of them.



NYFL,

TUGgers have already pointed out the other chains that are top-quality timeshares (Westin, HGVC, Hyatt, Four Seasons, DVC), but as Jin has alluded to, there are a number of high-quality independent resorts that are noteworthy, including, but not limited to:

1) Big Cedar (RCI trade)
2) Residences at the Crane (RCI trade)
3) Reef Resort (II trade)
4) Alexandra Resort and Spa (II trade)
5) Windjammer (I think this is in both)
6) Dawn Beach Club (II trade)
7) the Royals (Sands/Islander/Caribbean -- all II)
8) the Grand Mayans (I think these are in both)

I know there are others, but these are in areas that I track.  I'm always curious to find an independent that is a gem.   Sometimes they aren't rated well in TUG due to a couple of bad reviews (like Alexandra), but the feedback in TUG is very strong on these properties and makes me curious.

These are particularly interesting because they don't have a preference filter that makes it difficult to trade into.  Starwoods are tough to trade into because there is an approximate 21-30 day period where they are protected for other Starwood owners (just as we have protection for other Marriotts).

I've noticed that these prime independents are highly sought after (and trades are rare), and when someone trades into Residences at the Crane, the Caribbean board lights up.

I hope this is helpful?

Best,

Greg


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## jont (Sep 8, 2013)

The only non Marriotts I have stayed at so far are the Westin Kierland villas in Scottsdale and a few Wyndahms. I would rate the Wyndahms a slight notch below Marriott and Kierland villas equal to if not better that Marriotts Canyon Villas, of which I am an owner.


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## DeniseM (Sep 8, 2013)

One thing you should be aware of is that Starwood owners have priority for Starwood deposits in II, so even a Marriott deposit with high trading power, will be lower on the totem pole for Starwood exchanges.


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 8, 2013)

siesta said:


> yes, very irrational, unless you are planning on visiting ciudad juarez, reynosa, or any other border cities where cartels are fighting over drug routes. The only tourist city to be avoided due to drug route feuds is Acapulco, unfortunately thats a big port for drug shipments and has seen an uptick in violence.
> 
> Not visiting an entire country(Mexico) because of border and rural violence is almost as close minded as not visiting Chicago because we are one of the murder capitals ofthe country, when the fact is most of our citys violence is concentrated in the south and west sides were the most poverty stricken areas are located. Apparently people are more open minded, because there is never a shortage of tourists in my way standing in the middle of the sidewalk staring straight up. And im sure you have no problems visiting here with your family, when im willing to bet statistically tourists in Chicago(or any major US city)  are robbed, raped, beaten, stabbed, and murdered more than American tourists in Mexico.
> 
> ...


I don't want to highjack this thread but will make one more comment. There definitely has been violence in places like Cancun which isn't as bad but still more dangerous than any tourist spot in the USA. Yes tourist get killed here but its usually very random, and there isn't this wide spread drug violence that there is in Mexico. 

You use the example Chicago, or NYC but these are major urban areas where violence does occur but you can't compare Mexico safety to the tourist places that most TUGGERS go to like Hawaii, CA, Disney, South Carolina, the Ski resorts, Europe. Mexico is much more dangerous than these places.

Also I don't like going to places that they tell you "just avoid going here on there". Its like the argument I have with my friend about the DR. He says the resorts are beautiful, which I'm sure they are, but he says their are armed guards at all the resorts and agrees that you shouldn't get stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time. Who wants to go to a  place where if you make a mistake and maybe just a wrong turn and you're in a very bad place. Yes this can happen anywhere but it seems Mexico and places like the DR are more dangerous.

Also I'm thinking from a parent's perspective where I'm being very protective about my wife and two kids so again better safe than sorry. Quite frankly as I said the DR is on my No go list as are places like Greece, Israel or Egypt to name a few more.


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## siesta (Sep 8, 2013)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I don't want to highjack this thread but will make one more comment. There definitely has been violence in places like Cancun which isn't as bad but still more dangerous than any tourist spot in the USA. Yes tourist get killed here but its usually very random, and there isn't this wide spread drug violence that there is in Mexico.
> 
> You use the example Chicago, or NYC but these are major urban areas where violence does occur but you can't compare Mexico safety to the tourist places that most TUGGERS go to like Hawaii, CA, Disney, South Carolina, the Ski resorts


 i too dont want to highjack this thread. But your blanket statements are dead wrong.  Please research before you just make things up.

Since you brought up Orlando/Disney and Cancun:

"Americans are less likely to face violence on average in Mexico than at home, particularly when you zero in on Mexico’s most popular travel destinations. For example, the gateway to Disney World, Orlando, saw 7.5 murders per 100,000 residents in 2010 per the FBI; this is higher than Cancun or Puerto Vallarta, with rates of 1.83 and 5.9 respectively, per a Stanford University report (see data visualization here, summarized on this chart, page 21). Yet in March, the Texas Department of Public Safety advised against ‘spring break’ travel anywhere in Mexico, a country the size of the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy combined. Never mind that popular destinations like the Bahamas, Belize and Jamaica have far higher homicide rates (36, 42 and 52 per 100,000). Why the singular focus?"

"According to FBI crime statistics, 4.8 Americans per 100,000 were murdered in the US in 2010. The US State Department reports that 120 Americans of the 5.7 million who visited Mexico last year were murdered, which is a rate of 2.1 of 100,000 visitors. Regardless of whether they were or weren’t connected to drug trafficking, which is often not clear, it’s less than half the US national rate"

Read more: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/blog/20...s-safer-in-mexico-than-at-home/#ixzz2eJrRkufk

I encourage you to do your own research. As a country, Mexico has a higher rate then the US, but if you compare mexican tourists destinations to any US city, they typically have a fraction of our crime rate. And a very small fraction at that.

So to correct your incorrect blanket statment.  Cancun is NOT "more dangerous than any US tourist spot in the US." in fact, the numbers show that it doesnt even come close.

Regardless, happy travels, stay safe because you are going to much more dangerous places than Cancun, and you dont even know it.  I guess ignorance can be bliss though.


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## Pompey Family (Sep 8, 2013)

MOXJO7282;1525371... Quite frankly as I said the DR is on my No go list as are places like Greece said:
			
		

> Greece!??  Any particular reason?


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## Fasttr (Sep 8, 2013)

Pompey Family said:


> Greece!??  Any particular reason?



I think for Greece, the concerns are more economic related, revolving around strikes, etc.  Many stories of airport strikes, transportation (taxi, trains, busses) strikes, tourist areas being closed when they should be open because workers were not paid and walked off the job, etc, etc..  Just a lot of economic unrest in Greece these days.


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## siesta (Sep 8, 2013)

Fasttr said:


> I think for Greece, the concerns are more economic related, revolving around strikes, etc.  Many stories of airport strikes, transportation (taxi, trains, busses) strikes, tourist areas being closed when they should be open because workers were not paid and walked off the job, etc, etc..  Just a lot of economic unrest in Greece these days.


well anyone concerned about greece should add spain to their list, maybe even Italy too, have you seen the unemployment rates there? All silly notions IMO.

We were in Italy last October, Stayed in Positano in the Amalfi coast, and then a few days in Rome.  Had a great time, things are much more expensive the I remember in the lira days, the Euro has made cheap things much more expensive, for example a square slice of pizza is 5 euros.  Also the leather goods on the street shops arent as good as years past. And leaving Gucci and Cavalli made me think, why didnt I just buy all this stuff at home. But the food was still great, sights still beautiful, and the little gypsy kids that try to pick pocket you are stll going strong.  But we are wise to their act.

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” -Mark Twain


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## twinmommy19 (Sep 8, 2013)

Once you are safely at your resort, Mexico might be fine.

Hoewver i do know one thing.  Renting a car in Mexico is a major no no.  Anyone who disagrees has been very very lucky in their personally experiences.   We now happen to know of MORE than ONE incident with people we know personally who chose to rent a car there and spent an evening in prison and then paid over 10k to get out of jail and leave the country.  Set up incidents truly run rampant there where police pull drivers over for "wreck less driving" and put them in prison.  This is not an ignorant rumor - it's true.  A co-worker JUST has this happen to them last week - in Cancun.  I assure you the driver did nothing wrong and has never been in trouble with the law before in his life. 

If you don't rent a car and stay at your hotel, perhaps you are okay however I'm not sure about how safe it is to check your bags on the plane either.  I have heard stories about set ups where drugs are planted in suitcases and the police have followed people to their hotel to arrest them in mexico.  I don't personally know anyone who this happened to but you can read about it online.  All ploys for money.

The issue in Mexico IMO isn't the violence but the corruption of the government.  These set up incidents are ploys for money.  Meanwhile the money is the least of the concern if it happens to you - the guy we know had his sneakers taken and clothing stripped while he was in prison LAST WEEK before arrangements finally had been made to pay the money and get the heck out of the country.


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## siesta (Sep 8, 2013)

^ haha:rofl:

This thread is a joke. Conjecture and unfounded statements galore. Anyone who believes this stuff, please, Dont go to mexico, you will surely perpetuate the overseas notion of americans being close minded, ignorant, and loud. We american tourists already have a bad enough rep in the world.

One thing you should ask yourself, how come you dont hear people with mexican timeshares, or regular visitors to mexico, or even someone who has been there in the past 3 or 4 years posting here how unsafe it is? Seems to be the person who "read somewhere", "knows somebody" "heard from someone", etc.  if thats not a dead giveaway, im not sure what is.

Siesta, over and out.


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## Fasttr (Sep 8, 2013)

siesta said:


> well anyone concerned about greece should add spain to their list, maybe even Italy too, have you seen the unemployment rates there? All silly notions IMO.



With any of these places, its all about timing.  Our parent company is in Barcelona, Spain, and I have traveled there many times on business and pleasure and have always felt very safe.  That said, in March 2012, we cut a business trip short by a day (at the suggestion of our Spanish counterparts) because of a scheduled general labor strike in Spain.  The next day, safe and sound back at work in USA, we were amazed at the articles and pictures from that strike in Barcelona, Madrid, etc.  See link HERE.   

The majority of the protests were just around the corner from the hotel we had been staying at (in a very nice part of town) and close to where our offices are in Barcelona.  I can't say I would have felt too safe in a foreign country while that was going on near my hotel, let alone, wanting to be on vacation there with my family while it was happening.  Would I go there on a vacation with my family....yes.  Would I purchase travel protection and keep an eye on the news to make sure I knew if anything like that was scheduled to happen while we were there....yes again!!  

I guess the moral of the story is to be aware of current events in any area that you travel.

OK...Thread officially hijacked....sorry NYFLTRAVELER.


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## SMHarman (Sep 8, 2013)

bonk2boy said:


> Once you are safely at your resort, Mexico might be fine.
> 
> Hoewver i do know one thing.  Renting a car in Mexico is a major no no.



1) Mexico is a big country.  Thats as broad a brush statement as renting a car in America, or renting a car in Canada.

State or Province by Province, QRoo is a 'safe province' per the US
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_6033.html
Quintana Roo: Cancun, Cozumel, Playa del Carmen, Riviera Maya and Tulum are major cities/travel destinations in Quintana Roo - see attached map to identify their exact locations: No advisory is in effect.

2) I could go to a UK based website and probably read about people that spent the night in cells because of over zealous US policing.

Lets look at the US.  How about Arizona.  That is a popular travel destination.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...potlight-after-mercedes-benz-exec-is-arrested
I bet that German is not to impressed about travelling in the US.

It was not that long ago that Tourists to Florida were getting a travel warning
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/national/nationalspecial/04shoot.html?_r=0
I recall florida changed the licence plates of rental cars as part of the prevention program.

and this visitor to NYC can't be too impressed with the standards of driving tuition or taxi licence enforcement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/n...wd-scrambles-to-help.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/n...-british-tourist-says-it-wasnt-his-fault.html


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## jlr10 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't have DC points so can't comment from that issue.  But we stayed in Marriott Ocean Club in Maui and the Maui Westin and DH and I both thought the Westin was a much nicer resort, and would be our preference.


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## twinmommy19 (Sep 8, 2013)

For point of reference, the incident I am talking about in Cancun happened to a teacher who works in my mother's school. It happened just last week or perhaps 2 weeks ago.  Right before the teachers in NYC returned to work.  i am certainly not making this up and have zero incentive to do so.  It has nothing to do with what part of Mexico you are in but this happened to be Cancun.  There are corrupt officers and government workers in that country who know that they can make a quick buck on arresting American tourists.  Go on the Internet and read about it.  There are tons of reports out there - it really happens.  Does it happen to everyone?  Of course not.  If you want to, by all means go ahead and rent a car next time you are in Cancun.  Another teacher in the school commented that they had gone to Cancun recently and their hotel warned them not to rent a car.  She couldn't believe this story because her husband didn't listen and they rented a car for a day anyway.   Nothing happened to them but obviously if hotels are advising against it probably isn't the smartest idea.


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## floridabob (Sep 8, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> 1) Mexico is a big country.  Thats as broad a brush statement as renting a car in America, or renting a car in Canada.
> 
> State or Province by Province, QRoo is a 'safe province' per the US
> http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_6033.html
> ...


*Try another link this is the same one as above.*


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## ondeadlin (Sep 8, 2013)

I have a close friend who is first-generation Mexican-American.  Fluent in Spanish.  Has traveled extensively though out the country her entire life.  

She has repeatedly cautioned her friends against about driving in Mexico - any part of Mexico.  She has observed that Mexico on the whole is significantly more dangerous for everyone than it was 20 years ago.  Take it for what it's worth.

I will never travel to Mexico unless conditions change significantly.  If someone tells you, "Oh, the tourist areas are safe, just don't venture outside them," it's the same as saying, "there is serious danger nearby, and you have to hope it stays only nearby."


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## petertdavis (Sep 8, 2013)

ondeadlin said:


> If someone tells you, "Oh, the tourist areas are safe, just don't venture outside them," it's the same as saying, "there is serious danger nearby, and you have to hope it stays only nearby."



says someone who lives 50 miles from Detroit.


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## ondeadlin (Sep 8, 2013)

petertdavis said:


> says someone who lives 50 miles from Detroit.



The comparison simply doesn't work no matter how many times the folks defending Mexico attempt to use it.

There have been more than 100,000 murders in Mexico in the past six years.  It's a mind-boggling statistic that speaks to a government that literally has little to no control over crime in that country.

Yet it is that very same government and law enforcement you will be depending on if you travel to Mexico.  You are literally counting on the people who have already proved they cannot keep their citizens safe.

That's why the comparison between Mexican resort areas and Detroit/Chicago/whatever doesn't work for anyone except the folks already defending traveling to Mexico.


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## Fasttr (Sep 8, 2013)

petertdavis said:


> says someone who lives 50 miles from Detroit.



Dexter is pretty rural.  Don't bag on the Fighting Dreadnoughts!!!  That said, I have never understood the Dreadnought mascot for landlocked Dexter.


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## ondeadlin (Sep 8, 2013)

Fasttr said:


> Dexter is pretty rural.  Don't bag on the Fighting Dreadnoughts!!!  That said, I have never understood the Dreadnought mascot for landlocked Dexter.



You are not the first to wonder!  The HS paper did a story last year about how no one knows the roots of the Dreadnaught mascot.  It also pointed out that the spelling is that of the HMS Dreadnaught, which was the first in a new class of British battleships in 1906.


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## siesta (Sep 8, 2013)

ondeadlin said:


> The comparison simply doesn't work no matter how many times the folks defending Mexico attempt to use it.
> 
> There have been more than 100,000 murders in Mexico in the past six years.  It's a mind-boggling statistic that speaks to a government that literally has little to no control over crime in that country.


 if its so unsafe, and the government has no control, why are americans significantly more likely to get murdered as a tourist in an American city as opposed to in a mexican tourst city? Im failing to follow your logic. Please answer this, this is the "million dollar question"

Interesting side note, by the way this is just gun fire, not taking into account all Chicago murders:

Did you know last year that more people were murdered by guns in Chicago then US soldiers killed in Afghanistan? And since the war in Afghanistan started in 2001, Chicago has had more gun murders then Soldiers killed while fighting a war? Im sure detroit statistics are comparable too.  Would you consider our government to also have failed in protecting its citizenry, and therefore people shouldnt visit? Im guessing you have never been to Mexico, or if you have, probably not in the past decade. People fear that which they dont understand.

"more Chicago residents -- 228 -- have been killed so far this year in the city than the number of U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan - 144 -- over the same period.

The war zone-like statistics are not new. As WBEZ reports, while some 2,000 U.S. troops have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, more than 5,000 people have been killed by gun fire in Chicago during that time, based on Department of Defense and FBI data."


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## dioxide45 (Sep 8, 2013)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I hear there are many nice resorts in Mexico, but I personally wouldn't take my family there as there have been too many bad stories out of Mexico to have us feel safe enough. I know its probably irrational but I like being better safe than sorry when it comes to the well-being of my family.



See what you started.....


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## ilene13 (Sep 8, 2013)

bonk2boy said:


> Once you are safely at your resort, Mexico might be fine.
> 
> Hoewver i do know one thing.  Renting a car in Mexico is a major no no.  Anyone who disagrees has been very very lucky in their personally experiences.   We now happen to know of MORE than ONE incident with people we know personally who chose to rent a car there and spent an evening in prison and then paid over 10k to get out of jail and leave the country.  Set up incidents truly run rampant there where police pull drivers over for "wreck less driving" and put them in prison.  This is not an ignorant rumor - it's true.  A co-worker JUST has this happen to them last week - in Cancun.  I assure you the driver did nothing wrong and has never been in trouble with the law before in his life.
> 
> ...



We travel to Cancun and Playa del Carmen 3 times a year.  We have been doing this since 1990.  We rent a car every time.  We follow the rules and we have been bothered by the police twice.  Once my husband made a turn that he shouldn't have, there was no sign.  An officer pulled us over, but he was happy to take $50 and call it a day.  The other time a bus hit us while we were stopped at a light near the Royal Sands. The police came but the resort manager came out to translate.  It cost us about $200 to make the officers and bus driver happy although it was not our fault.  We will continue to rent cars and follow the laws.  There are a lot of urban legends about car rentals in Mexico.  Don't always believe what you read on the Internet.:cheer


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## ilene13 (Sep 8, 2013)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I don't want to highjack this thread but will make one more comment. There definitely has been violence in places like Cancun which isn't as bad but still more dangerous than any tourist spot in the USA. Yes tourist get killed here but its usually very random, and there isn't this wide spread drug violence that there is in Mexico.
> 
> You use the example Chicago, or NYC but these are major urban areas where violence does occur but you can't compare Mexico safety to the tourist places that most TUGGERS go to like Hawaii, CA, Disney, South Carolina, the Ski resorts, Europe. Mexico is much more dangerous than these places.
> 
> ...



Israel is very safe for tourists.


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## ondeadlin (Sep 8, 2013)

Again, those statistics - while a significant problem - are irrelevant in a discussion about crime in Mexico.

Again, the issue in Mexico is that its government and law enforcement agencies are literally unable to keep the country safe.  When you travel to Mexico, you are counting on that same government and law enforcement agencies to keep you safe.

Your comparison fails because it ignores the fact that America is a very safe place for Americans and Mexico is a very dangerous place for Mexicans.   

Murders in America - wherever they happen - are the exception to the rule, i.e. our government and law enforcement agencies can be relied upon to maintain order 99 percent of the time in 99 percent of the country.  

If you come to America and bet on our government and law enforcement agencies, you are making a very logical decision.

If you go to Mexico and bet on the Mexican government and law enforcement to keep you safe, you are not making a logical decision.  More than 100,000+ Mexicans have made that bet and lost in the last six years.


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## ondeadlin (Sep 8, 2013)

ilene13 said:


> We travel to Cancun and Playa del Carmen 3 times a year.  We have been doing this since 1990.  We rent a car every time.  We follow the rules and we have been bothered by the police twice.  Once my husband made a turn that he shouldn't have, there was no sign.  An officer pulled us over, but he was happy to take $50 and call it a day.  The other time a bus hit us while we were stopped at a light near the Royal Sands. The police came but the resort manager came out to translate.  It cost us about $200 to make the officers and bus driver happy although it was not our fault.  We will continue to rent cars and follow the laws.  There are a lot of urban legends about car rentals in Mexico.  Don't always believe what you read on the Internet.:cheer



So, essentially, you were twice forced to pay bribes to Mexican police officers.  When you appeared to be doing nothing wrong ... including once when you were the party that was hit by another driver.

And you think this proves the point it's safe to drive in Mexico.

Interesting ...


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## siesta (Sep 8, 2013)

ondeadlin said:


> Again, those statistics - while a significant problem - are irrelevant in a discussion about crime in Mexico.
> 
> Again, the issue in Mexico is that its government and law enforcement agencies are literally unable to keep the country safe.  When you travel to Mexico, you are counting on that same government and law enforcement agencies to keep you safe.
> 
> ...


first off, im an american travelling in mexico, not a mexican in mexico.  So if im statistically safer (and significantly safer) as a tourist there then any tourist in an american city, i dont see your point.  

so following your logic, since thhe entire country of mexico has a murder rate of around 18-22ish per 100000, and the bahamas is higher thhen that. The bahamian government is "literally unable to keep the country safe" therefore dont go to the bahamas? This gets sillier by the minute.


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## ondeadlin (Sep 8, 2013)

siesta said:


> first off, im an american travelling in mexico, not a mexican in mexico.  So if im statistically safer (and significantly safer) as a tourist there then any tourist in an american city, i dont see your point.
> 
> so following your logic, since thhe entire country of mexico has a murder rate of around 18-22ish per 100000, and the bahamas is higher thhen that. The bahamian government is "literally unable to keep the country safe" therefore dont go to the bahamas? This gets sillier by the minute.



Actually, it's really your own comparisons that get sillier and probably the funniest part about this conversation is how you sincerely believe that the situation in Mexico is comparable to other places.  Most folks recognize that there's a difference between paramilitary drug gangs that literally govern parts of Mexico and run wild throughout Mexico ... and regular ol' crime in countries that actually have functional governments.

That's why Mexican tourism is tanking.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/mexico-may-drop-out-worlds-tourism-top-10

But you'll obviously go on thinking you're smarter than all those silly folks who don't want to bet their families' safety on a government and law enforcement agencies that can't keep their own citizens safe - feel free to have the last word.


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## siesta (Sep 8, 2013)

ondeadlin said:


> Actually, it's really your own comparisons that get sillier and probably the funniest part about this conversation is how you sincerely believe that the situation in Mexico is comparable to other places.  Most folks recognize that there's a difference between paramilitary drug gangs that literally govern parts of Mexico and run wild throughout Mexico ... and regular ol' crime in countries that actually have functional governments.
> 
> That's why Mexican tourism is tanking.
> 
> ...


since ive been granted your permission, I will.

Americans are statsitically safer in a mexican tourist city then an american tourist city. But you dnt want to focus on that.

Your focus is crime overall, but then are willing to travel to a country with a higher overall crime rate.

You dont even realize that you help my case by saying mexico is in a drug war, but  ithas lower crime rates then caribbean islands that you probably have no prblem going to. If mexico is in a drug war, and is statistically safer as a country overall than alot of caribbean islands, and if the mexican tourist cities are safer thhen american tourist cities, what does that say about the safety and government competancy of those islands and US cities who have higher murder and crime rates and arent even in a drug war. 

You have blinders on my friend, happy travels.

P.s.- feel free to retort, id love to hear more from a walking oxymoron


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## Fasttr (Sep 8, 2013)

siesta said:


> Americans are statsitically safer in a mexican tourist city then an american tourist city.



As John Mayer sings...."Cause when they own the information, oh they can bend it all they want".  I guess in a country where you have to pay $200 to make the Police and the bus driver who hit you "happy", its likely not too much more expensive to get a murder recorded as a death by natural causes.  I think that is ondeadlin's overriding theme... you can't trust the government, so who's to say the stats you are quoting are real or not.


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## SMHarman (Sep 8, 2013)

floridabob said:


> *Try another link this is the same one as above.*



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/n...wd-scrambles-to-help.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/n...-british-tourist-says-it-wasnt-his-fault.html


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## siesta (Sep 8, 2013)

Fasttr said:


> As John Mayer sings...."Cause when they own the information, oh they can bend it all they want".  I guess in a country where you have to pay $200 to make the Police and the bus driver who hit you "happy", its likely not too much more expensive to get a murder recorded as a death by natural causes.  I think that is ondeadlin's overriding theme... you can't trust the government, so who's to say the stats you are quoting are real or not.


we record who leaves, and who doesnt come back. Crime Statistics are given by the FBI, which is what I have previously posted. It is not unusual for the American authorities to investigate the deaths of Americans. If you're gonna talk of government conspiracys, i cant argue with the tin hat.

By the way, Illinois just in the past 2 years repealed the death penalty, part of the reason being a chicago police department scandal revealing torture for false confessions. Some already executed at that point. sounds worse then $200, which happened to her twice in 23 years. Keep it in perspective.


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## SMHarman (Sep 8, 2013)

ondeadlin said:


> So, essentially, you were twice forced to pay bribes to Mexican police officers.  When you appeared to be doing nothing wrong ... including once when you were the party that was hit by another driver.
> 
> And you think this proves the point it's safe to drive in Mexico.
> 
> Interesting ...


'cause the same accidents in the US would not have a different outcome?!


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## MOXJO7282 (Sep 9, 2013)

siesta said:


> if its so unsafe, and the government has no control, why are americans significantly more likely to get murdered as a tourist in an American city as opposed to in a mexican tourst city?



I don't know what your bias is but you obviously have one because this is just inaccurate. You mention Chicago but even there the tourists areas are safe and I'm confident no police officer is going to hassle you for a bribe.


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## swaits (Sep 9, 2013)

Wow this thread went from potentially useful to crazy Mexican tourist office troll crazy pretty quickly. Impressive! 

I live next to Mexico. In San Diego. Mere miles from the border. You couldn't pay me to go there. Yes, the Americanized tourist centers are better. But, um, no thanks. We have plenty of better choices.

No Mexican "statistics" are going to change my mind. Or the minds of just about everyone I know.


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## ondeadlin (Sep 9, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> 'cause the same accidents in the US would not have a different outcome?!



Seriously?  Have you ever been forced to pay a roadside bribe to the police in America?  When you were the innocent party who was hit by a bus?  Come on now ...


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## SMHarman (Sep 9, 2013)

ondeadlin said:


> Seriously?  Have you ever been forced to pay a roadside bribe to the police in America?  When you were the innocent party who was hit by a bus?  Come on now ...



We'll I consider these ridiculous tickets handed out and pled down to a different charge a bribe. 

Either you commited the crime on the ticket and should be charged for it or you didn't and the charges should be dropped. 

He got a dui but the lawyer pled it to a busted tail light and $1000 fine. That's not justice. Do that where I come from And you are riding the bus for 6 months. No bus. Should have thought of that before you drove drunk. 

The lawyer fees, time off work etc are far greater than a $50 on the spot fine!  

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## ondeadlin (Sep 9, 2013)

Riiiiight.


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## floridabob (Sep 9, 2013)

SMHarman said:


> We'll I consider these ridiculous tickets handed out and pled down to a different charge a bribe.
> 
> Either you commited the crime on the ticket and should be charged for it or you didn't and the charges should be dropped.
> 
> ...



Well you just proved the POLICE do a great job in THE UNITED STATES. IT'S THE JUDGES who are the problem.


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## SueDonJ (Sep 9, 2013)

Okay, we've gone far enough away from the OP's topic and into Neverland now.  Thread's closed.


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