# [2008] Grand Regina Villa Cabo San Lucas [Not Starwood]



## nanaboat

Villas are still not completed, but there is a meeting in Sept. and owners should receive info. soon. Connie McDonogh


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## LisaRex

Thanks.  Are these Starwood TSs?

And why so sad?


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## DeniseM

LisaRex said:


> Thanks.  Are these Starwood TSs?
> 
> And why so sad?



Hi Lisa - It appears to be a fractional, not part of the SVN, so I'm moving this to the Mexico forum.


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## nanaboat

These are starwood timeshares and I'm sad because they have had my money since 2004!!!!!


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## BradC

The Grand Regina Villas are being renamed the Westin Los Cabos Ocean Villas (WLCOR?).  Details are in this thread.

Hopefully the announcement is about the end of the construction delays!


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## DeniseM

Thanks Brad - I moved it back to the Starwood Board.


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## LisaRex

Here's hoping a new resort is on our horizon...


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## mindy35

Just checking.....this is the Grand Regina resort and not the Club Regina?

Club Regina had been converted from Westin to Raintree. Did SVO take it over too?


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## BradC

Yes, the Grand Regina is different from Club Regina.

If you picture the hotel property as you enter from the highway, the hotel is in the center, Club Regina on the left, and the Grand Regina is on the right.

As I recall, Club Regina has been owned and operated by Raintree all along.  The Grand Regina was being built by Raintree, but Starwood purchased the rights to the remainder of the unbuilt project.

To my knowledge, Starwood has never had a connection with Club Regina, other than sharing some of their properties with Westin-branded hotels.


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## nanaboat

This property still has not started construction and after a conversation I had with starwood the other day, they don't plan on starting construction until late 2009!  They keep saying there are third party issues.


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## stevens397

All I can say is that my business partner purchased this three years ago and is inconsolable.  He purchased a single holiday week (Spring Break) and has gotten nothing but promises, while they have all of his money.  The completion date has been moved back time and again and while he assumes it may someday work out, he's beyond fed up.

Then again, he didn't purchase from Starwood, but they did send a PR letter to him twice when they purchased it and led him to believe that since they are the new owners, everything was back on track.  You also have to understand that while the previous poster said that there is no construction taking place, we're talking about project where the steel girders are all up and construction has already begun.  It's not like they are building from scratch, so the "third party issues" seem suspect to me.


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## clsmit

Have either of you asked for your money back?


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## Ken555

Yeah... don't you have any legal recourse if the developer doesn't complete the project and permit you to use the resort? Or is this "all different" in Mexico, or a standard waiver in all pre-construction purchases?  Perhaps we're seeing the real implications of buying pre-construction and one of the reasons prices are lower.


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## stevens397

Worse than that.  When he purchased, there was a note (no interest, I think, as the resort wasn't even built yet) with a balloon.  When the balloon came due, it was now owned by Starwood and he told them he would not pay it but would continue paying it out as he was already doing.

No dice, they said.  It tooks tons of escalation to finally get them to concede.  I think the problem is he bought from one corp and he's now dealing with another - altho he probably wouldn't get his money back anyway.  Really hard to believe.


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## jkrischt

I don't believe them for 1 second but...I just got back from an owner's update at SVR last Thursday.  They would not stop talking about Los Cabos and how it is opening soon (they said Sept of next year).  They were pitching it to all new potential owners.  So it sounds like it might be back on track...but of course I know better then to believe them!


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## jkrischt

Starwood also has a site that they update about the progress:

https://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/loscabos/index.jsp


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## clsmit

jkrischt said:


> I don't believe them for 1 second but...I just got back from an owner's update at SVR last Thursday.  They would not stop talking about Los Cabos and how it is opening soon (they said Sept of next year).  They were pitching it to all new potential owners.  So it sounds like it might be back on track...but of course I know better then to believe them!



Any pricing? Any size information? Any layouts, other than what's on the website you posted? All I know about Cabo is that it was a stop on the Love Boat! (wait, that makes me old enough to have watched the Love Boat...nevermind):ignore:


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## jkrischt

clsmit said:


> Any pricing? Any size information? Any layouts, other than what's on the website you posted? All I know about Cabo is that it was a stop on the Love Boat! (wait, that makes me old enough to have watched the Love Boat...nevermind):ignore:



I know nothing...and neither did the people at SVR except that it was "opening soon".  Soon to them may mean 5 years though...


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## Par

*Grand Regina Villas*

We bought this fractional ownership in 2005. We were at the GRV last Feb. The building pads are there only.  Starwood is not going to build because of the credit crisis. We are really upset about this whole thing as we bought 2 weeks at the GRV.  The PRC's (Private Residence Club) were built but not the villas.


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## tlpnet

Did you get official notification from SVO?  The information on their website updated last month doesn't indicate that it's been postponed.  In addition, my contacts at Starwood haven't yet been told it was put on hold/cancelled.

-tim


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## LisaRex

tlpnet said:


> Did you get official notification from SVO?  The information on their website updated last month doesn't indicate that it's been postponed.  In addition, my contacts at Starwood haven't yet been told it was put on hold/cancelled.-tim



If you expand the "Construction" tab:

"Starwood Vacation Ownership is committed to pursuing the development of The Westin Los Cabos Ocean Villas and it remains one of our top priorities. We have overcome many of the obstacles facing us before resort construction can begin, but some obstacles remain. We are working with several third-party companies on critical issues and agreements that must be satisfactorily resolved before we can move forward with the development. While we are actively engaged with these companies and working toward resolution, we cannot control the amount of time this process may take or the final outcome. We will provide an updated development report as soon as we have a better understanding of the resolution of these issues."


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## stevens397

In looking over this thread, I see that I did leave some information out in a previous post.

Yes, my business partner paid in full and this project is going nowhere.  But they do let him have a 2 BR at Club Regina until Grand Regina is complete.  For the first few years, they would let him rent as many as he wanted in CR.  We passed up our Kierland one year to spend a week at CR and had a great time for the $640 maintenance fee.  That's when we toured GR and we too were blown away by it.

In terms of price, he paid about $60,000 for his 2 BR ocean view about 3 years ago (maybe 4).  So I have to expect Starwood will make it even more expensive - which certainly explains why they are delaying in this market.


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## nanaboat

*Grand Regina Villas - Cabo*

Just received notice Villa are not going to be built.  All Villa owners who paid, in advance, good luck.  Connie McDonogh

I bought 2004 and upgraded from Club Regina to Grand Regina.  I can't wait to see what the offer is.


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## SDKath

WOW!  Who did this notice come from?

Also, I didn't see this project on the recent presentation to Merryl Lynch by Starwood, making me think the same thing -- they are going to pull the plug on the resort (like Aruba).

I am wondering for those who bought there, did you buy through Starwood?? Or some other company who said Starwood would take over?  I guess I am just not understanding how they could take all your money and then not give you a refund if the project doesn't go.  What sort of promise was made on PAPER?  I know we can completely ignore sales people so I am just curious what do these contracts actually say on paper???

Katherine


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## nanaboat

Has  nothing to do with starwood.  Club regina/raintree.  Proposal being put together to buy us out after having our money for four years!!!!


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## nanaboat

Yeah, check the site out now.  Its over.


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## mitchandjeanette

nanaboat said:


> Yeah, check the site out now.  Its over.



What site?


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## clsmit

mitchandjeanette said:


> What site?



See earlier in the thread. The SVO site advertising Los Cabos now indicates the property is not under development. I'm really sorry to hear that.


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## LisaRex

Wait a minute.  On 10/23 their website stated that despite difficulties, Cabo remained one of their top priorities!

I should have bought Marriott. 

sigh.


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## SDKath

The development of The Westin Los Cabos Ocean Villas is currently under review until further notice.

Grand Regina Villas buyers should contact Grand Regina Member Services for questions about their purchase in the Grand Regina development. Grand Regina Member Services can be reached toll free at 866.881.3859 or by email at memberservices@grandregina.com.

This is all I see...

Katherine


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## nodge

LisaRex said:


> Wait a minute.  On 10/23 their website stated that despite difficulties, Cabo remained one of their top priorities!



Oh, I sense a Google searching contest here.  Who can find the most recent SVO statement (that is still viewable via the web) making Cabo a "top priority?"

I'll start with this entry, dated March 1, 2007.

_"For Starwood Vacation Ownership (SVO), which operates timeshare resorts under its Sheraton and Westin brands, Mexico is a top priority, according to Matt Avril, president, SVO. The company currently has new developments under way in Cancun and Cabo San Lucas. "There are a lot of dynamics that make Mexico attractive for us," Avril says. "Our ownership base is largely U.S., and Mexico is seen as an extension of the U.S. market today. We'll be the first branded player in Mexico, so we think there are a lot of synergies. The consumer is looking for brand confidence."_

I think I should get extra points because this quote also includes the buzzwords "synergies" AND "brand confidence."

Can anyone beat that date?

-nodge


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## clsmit

I'm taking up nodge's challenge and in my search I found these quotes from the Q3 08 earnings call:

"We are starting no new (vacation ownership) projects, essentially completing projects that are well underway and partially sold."--Vasant Prabhu, CFO Starwood  -- He emphasized that point later during the Q&A period.

"As it relates to the time-share first I want to be very clear and this is something we said earlier in the call already, we’re resizing the business, which doesn’t mean exiting, and we’re going to continue to focus on a small number of high return locations..." -- Frits van Paasschen, CEO Starwood

That would explain why Cabo is gone.

Quotes from Seekingalpha.com http://seekingalpha.com/article/101...orldwide-inc-q3-2008-earnings-call-transcript


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## clsmit

nodge said:


> Oh, I sense a Google searching contest here.  Who can find the most recent SVO statement (that is still viewable via the web) making Cabo a "top priority?"
> 
> I'll start with this entry, dated March 1, 2007.
> (stuff deleted)
> Can anyone beat that date?
> 
> -nodge


How about:
"Date: Wednesday, April 18 2007 
 Starwood Vacation Ownership, a division of Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. (NYSE: HOT), announced today that it has broken ground on its second Westin-branded vacation ownership resort in Mexico. The Westin Los Cabos Ocean Villas is the first vacation ownership resort in Los Cabos, Mexico to be developed by a major U.S.-based lodging company. ... 'The location is one of the most beautiful in Los Cabos and we are eager to continue our expansion,' said Sergio Rivera, president of real estate development, Starwood Hotels & Resorts, Worldwide, Inc. "

http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services/4320265-1.html


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## nodge

clsmit said:


> I found these quotes from the Q3 08 earnings call:
> 
> "We are starting no new (vacation ownership) projects, essentially completing projects that are well underway and partially sold."--Vasant Prabhu, CFO Starwood  -- He emphasized that point later during the Q&A period."



Ouch!   No sugarcoating that one.  I guess that WKORV-III in stinkyville is dead too.  What about the Westin Riverside in Avon?  Have construction and/or sales started?  If not, I guess it's toast.

-nodge


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## Denise L

*Los Cabos? Cabo San Lucas?*

Is this the same place that you guys are talking about?

http://grandregina.com/index.html

I have a friend supposedly staying at the Grand in Cabo in June using her Club Regina Raintree ownerhip.  Is this a different place? Same place? I obviously don't know Mexico at all  .


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## nanaboat

They completed the Grand Reginia Residences but the villas are not going to be built because starwood backed out.  Raintree/not to be confused with the Westin, is going to make a prosposal to buy out for cash the people who put up their money for the villas.  I, not being smart, gave them my money four years ago and upgraded from the Club Regina/Raintree.  I received my letter, by email, from Grand Regina/Raintree that the project is over.  Starwood is not involved and their web site tells you to call Grand Regina/Raintree.  Believe me, with the maint. fees they were going to charge, the Club Regina is just fine.


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## SDKath

nodge said:


> Ouch!   No sugarcoating that one.  I guess that WKORV-III in stinkyville is dead too.  What about the Westin Riverside in Avon?  Have construction and/or sales started?  If not, I guess it's toast.
> 
> -nodge



Riverfront is already selling.  The hotel is built and 1/2 of the first TS  building is supposed to be done this coming Summer.  But I think they bailed on the second TS building.  The sales rep at Riverfront tells me that "sales are very strong" and there has been "no impact" of the economy.  If that is the case, why bail on the second building???   

Yes nodge, I award you triple bonus points for finding "synergy" and "brand confidence!"  Great detective work.  I am sorry to say that your bonus points have been devalued by multiple of 0 starting yesterday, so really you get nothing for that find.  Sorry.

Katherine


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## TomH

*Riverfront*

Wow!  I did not hear that they scrapped the second building.  Looks like a bad time to be selling timeshares.  I am crossing my fingers for more realistic developer prices and attractive incentives when they come to the reality that the economy IS affecting timeshare sales.  So far, Starwood VO seems to be living in a fantasy world with scheduled price increases, etc.    

Tom


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## djp

"*We are starting no new (vacation ownership) projects, essentially completing projects that are well underway and partially sold."--Vasant Prabhu, CFO Starwood  -- He emphasized that point later during the Q&A period.

"As it relates to the time-share first I want to be very clear and this is something we said earlier in the call already, we’re resizing the business, which doesn’t mean exiting, and we’re going to continue to focus on a small number of high return locations..." -- Frits van Paasschen, CEO Starwood*

I read "starting no new projects", and "were resizing the business" to really mean WE ARE EXITING. I am officially anticipating Starwood to spin off the timeshare biz to another developer. I just hope it is DVC or Marriott.


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## LisaRex

djp said:


> I read "starting no new projects", and "were resizing the business" to really mean WE ARE EXITING. I am officially anticipating Starwood to spin off the timeshare biz to another developer. I just hope it is DVC or Marriott.



I share your concern and hope that if it's sold, the buyer is Hyatt or Hilton. Marriott be great, but I think there's too much redundancy in locations for it to work.

Once the people who financed their timeshares have paid off their loans, there's very little to sustain SVO.  The handwriting is on the wall.


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## bizaro86

Hilton got purchased in a leveraged buy-out approximately at the top of the real estate market with a huge amount of debt. No way they could buy anything right now, whether they wanted to or not.

And even if they decided to 'exit' the business, I think they'd be more likely to go the '4 seasons' route and just never build or sell any more timeshares, not sell the rights to their existing resorts, because most of the value they add is through their brand names, and I can't imagine they'd be willing to let anyone else use them. And anyone who has their own 'brand' name, ie. hyatt/dvc, probably doesn't want a bunch of the older SVO resorts with no development potential (ie, vistana beach club, SDO, etc). 

Michael


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## djp

Here is an email I received from a fairly sr. starwood person, that I emailed with questions about aruba, and Cabo apparently being cancelled, and Riverfront being only half the size it was originally planned for.

"As for all developers this is a conservative time.
Starwood does fund its own projects (for the most part)
and is being conservative with its capital.

We are in a supply and demand system.  
Obviously Consumers don't have as much expendible
income currently so we are not going to over build.

Aruba had some deeper issues and at this time is a no go.
Cabo is just on hold and the Riverfront is being built in phases.
This is just the first phase the other is still planned, we already
own the realestate.  Sales are doing very well."

(I will provide name and title to anyone who PM's me, but do not want to post here as I did not ask him permission to quote)

So according to him Cabo will happen eventually, and Riverfront will be full size. I guess we will see.


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## nodge

LisaRex said:


> Once the people who financed their timeshares have paid off their loans, there's very little to sustain SVO.  The handwriting is on the wall.



I agree.

Starwood appears to have sealed its fate when its top official publically announced that the opposite will happen, all while the top SVO official, and his precious golf clubs, jumped to the Starwood mothership a few months ago.  With SVO's first "top priority" announcements serving as a guide, I'm guessing the axe will fall in about 15-18 months from Frits' announcement to the contrary.

I don't think SVO "exiting" the sustaining timeshare business would be all that bad.  Its current management only really knows how to build stuff and schmooze investors, so much so that it doesn’t even consider itself in the timeshare sustaining business anyway.  If it let loose of the sustaining/management/always having to meet Marriott's profits at all costs mentality/purse string reigns, even a little, a much more responsive, effective and reasonable sustaining management team could work wonders.

We'd lose the whole "new resort" on the horizon opening soon thing, but we'd all gain control of our respective resorts AND enormous banquet/ballrooms at our resorts where those pesky SVO sales galleries currently sit.

-nodge


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## SDKath

I can't imagine why Starwood would want to sell their TS business.  Remember that ML presentation this week?  They had arrows pointing between their TS and their Hotel business.  They will use one to drum up business at the other.  What they have built so far is already (mostly) owned and paid for, except perhaps WKORV III.  I bet they have funding in place for it already.  They should go ahead.  You know why?  Because they can charge $65,000 for a week in a 2BR LO OV and call it OF AND sell all 52 weeks easily since HI has great weather year round.  Same with Poipu.  Now compare that with Riverfront, which only has about 15 good weeks of use a year.  Hmmmmm.  No brainer.  Build in Hawaii.  And MX.  (I bet they WANT Cabo to happen.  There must be some other issues at play in Cabo that have nothing to do with Starwood.)

I think they are going to do just what they say -- cut back.  Lay off sales people, stop building new projects for a while and wait for the economy to pick up.  

As a matter of fact, what I would be doing if I was Starwood right now is looking for cheap land!  Plan ahead!  In this economy, you buy, not sell.  So I would be scouring the CA landscape (except Palm Springs) looking for a new location.  Santa Barbara?  Newport?  San Diego?  Napa?  There are bound to be some bankruptcy sales that they can take advantage of.  And that's just the state I know well.  They should be looking in other parts of the country too, for opportunity.  That's what savvy businesses do. 

Then when the time is right and demand is higher, they can start building and selling again.  That's what I would be doing right about now if I were sitting in Orlando behind a great big mahogany desk.... 

Katherine


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## LisaRex

Even if they bought a boat load of land today (which is unlikely because banks have tightened up their credit), new developments are at least 3 years down the road.  The reason their profits are down, by Starwood's own admission, is because Hawaii sold out. Hawaii is STILL sold out, so my question is how will SVO sustain itself during the next 3-5 years? They make money selling VOIs. Timeshare is all they do.  It's akin to McDonald's saying that their hamburgers are priced too high so they're going to quit selling them for now, but in a few years they'll start selling them again and all will be fine.  You can't grow a business with a stagnant business plan.


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## myip

I know what SVO should do... They should exercise ROFR -- without building... We can keep the sales staffs --> Maybe my non-mandatory resort price will go sky rocket...  :hysterical:  Wishful thinking


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## SDKath

Well, I am not saying this is the best position to be in.  But most large companies (all types not just TS -- look at Cisco's earning report yesterday!) are just trying to weather the storm right now.  So unless Starwood is about to declare bankruptcy, which I don't think they are close to, they need to get through the next 3-4 years with cuts in staff and big expensive projects and start planning for the future so they can come out stronger and more profitable in 5 or 10 years.

K


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## Fredm

SDKath said:


> Well, I am not saying this is the best position to be in.  But most large companies (all types not just TS -- look at Cisco's earning report yesterday!) are just trying to weather the storm right now.  So unless Starwood is about to declare bankruptcy, which I don't think they are close to, they need to get through the next 3-4 years with cuts in staff and big expensive projects and start planning for the future so they can come out stronger and more profitable in 5 or 10 years.
> 
> K



Starwood is in the same boat as Marriott and just about every other large timeshare developer. 
Although the economy in general isn't helping matters, their real problem is with the credit markets. They cannot package and sell timeshare loans in the marketplace. Worse, they do not have any visibility to when the markets might return to "normal". Worse, worse, every dollar that they finance themselves is deferring revenue from the sale. Publicly traded companies, especially, don't like that.

Unwilling and unable to commit vast amounts of capital for an unknown period of time, Starwood, Marriott, and others are intentionally postponing or canceling development, aggressively cutting costs, and consolidating. 
As a result, I do not believe that there will be progress on ANY pipeline resorts until Starwood is again able to monetize their timeshare notes. 

A couple of weeks ago Howard Nusbaum, President of ARDA, requested assistance under the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act (the $700 billion bailout) to address the loan liquidity crisis in the timeshare industry. ARDA wants the fed's to guarantee timeshare investment grade paper in exchange for credit insurance fees paid to the US Government. 

Quoting Nusbaum: "The timeshare industry is literally selling itself out of business by generating consumer loans through sales while being unable to monetize them..."

Starwood is not growing its timeshare business for the time being. But, not because they can't sell it. It is an intentional, managed response to the credit markets. They have plenty of capital, but are choosing to invest it in the hospitality side of the business, rather than hold loans on their balance sheet.


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## SDKath

I agree with you Fred.  But is the hotel side fairing any better?  The first thing people cut back on when money is tight is vacations.  Same with business clients.  They are not filling those hotels as readily as they were 5 years ago?!  Seems like the hotel side is suffering just as badly.  I just saw an ad pop up on google for me saying Starwood stay 1 night, get 1 night free!   

Katherine


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## rocky

Back to my prior negative comments about the value of being 5 star -- see how things change quickly and not for the good??????  

The only silver lining I can see in all this is that average hotel room rates will fall and the associated starpoints required for a night in those hotels will fall -- at least that's how it's supposed to work.  The annual revaluation comes soon and we will know soon enough.


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## Fredm

SDKath said:


> I agree with you Fred.  But is the hotel side fairing any better?  The first thing people cut back on when money is tight is vacations.  Same with business clients.  They are not filling those hotels as readily as they were 5 years ago?!  Seems like the hotel side is suffering just as badly.  I just saw an ad pop up on google for me saying Starwood stay 1 night, get 1 night free!
> 
> Katherine



Katherine, the 2009 picture is not pretty for the hotel side. You are absolutely right about family and business travel cutbacks. 

Is the hotel side fairing any better than VO? For 2009, I think so.
Business will be off comparing year to year. Nonetheless, new hotels are entering the system, and new management contracts are being written.

VO, on the other hand, is at a standstill until credit markets return to normal. Which is the point I was really trying to make. 
The thread started with the status of Grand Regina,  and  discussion expanded  to other pipeline questions.

All issues considered, they will be making money, not losing money. It is not growth, but they are not going out of business. Making profits while waiting for the economic climate to improve is not a bad place to be.

 Some stockholders may not like it, but the stock has already been pounded into the dirt.  Fairly conservative valuations suggest that the current business is worth $65/share. It is trading around $19. 
One person's paper loss is another person's longer term buying opportunity.

Meanwhile, those of us who do have occasion to stay at a hotel are getting benefits from the slowdown.

Don't worry, be happy!


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## nanaboat

*grand regina villa cabo san lucas*



nanaboat said:


> Yeah, check the site out now.  Its over.


 
I am a owner at the Grand Regina and have been contacted that Starwood has backed out and the villas will not be completed.  We are suppose to hear by the end of the year our buy out, since we paid in advance.  Lesson to be learned.


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## nanaboat

clsmit said:


> How about:
> "Date: Wednesday, April 18 2007
> Starwood Vacation Ownership, a division of Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. (NYSE: HOT), announced today that it has broken ground on its second Westin-branded vacation ownership resort in Mexico. The Westin Los Cabos Ocean Villas is the first vacation ownership resort in Los Cabos, Mexico to be developed by a major U.S.-based lodging company. ... 'The location is one of the most beautiful in Los Cabos and we are eager to continue our expansion,' said Sergio Rivera, president of real estate development, Starwood Hotels & Resorts, Worldwide, Inc. "
> 
> http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services/4320265-1.html



How about I am a owner at Grand Regina and got my email saying Starwood had backed out and further info. regarding a buy out would be coming by the end of the year.  This means MY BUYOUT since I paid in advance. NEVER pay before the product is produced!


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## LisaRex

I realize that Starwood has had your money since 2004, Nanaboat.  And that stinks.  On a positive note, Starwood must return 100% of your money.  Had you not given it to them, it might have been invested in the stock market and been down 60% of it like the rest of us!

Small consolation, I know.


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## sjuhawk_jd

*Probably not with starwood*



LisaRex said:


> I realize that Starwood has had your money since 2004, Nanaboat.  And that stinks.  !
> .



I do not think that nanaboat paid his money to the starwood. Starwood entered the game late and nanaboat's money may well be with the original developer, raintree??


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## nanaboat

*Grand Regina Cabo*



sjuhawk_jd said:


> I do not think that nanaboat paid his money to the starwood. Starwood entered the game late and nanaboat's money may well be with the original developer, raintree??



You are correct!  It is with Raintree and who knows what is going to happen, and by the way, I am in the stock market, too!!!


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## mindy35

I'm sorry, I am posting a portion of this post as a double since I found 2 different threads to which it would apply.

I am here at Club regina and I am confused. A walk down the beach from the Westin one sees a full building where the Grand Regina is. I can't really tell if it's occupied but I see towels on some Lanai's and umbrellas and staff sweeping around the pool. The Raintree staff also claims it is ready to visit (he lied about some other things too but that's another post). 

Is this the property that others have purchased and been told have not been completed? What's the story?? I will try to take some photos to post.

To make sure I am not confused. There is a finished road to the right of the hotel as you drive in with a Grand Regina sign and a security guard (no gate like the Club Regina however). We are in the Club Regina units on one side of the property....then there is the Westin Hotel. These units look different and are on the other side, multi-storied with large Lanai's.


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## nanaboat

*Grand Regina*



mindy35 said:


> I'm sorry, I am posting a portion of this post as a double since I found 2 different threads to which it would apply.
> 
> I am here at Club regina and I am confused. A walk down the beach from the Westin one sees a full building where the Grand Regina is. I can't really tell if it's occupied but I see towels on some Lanai's and umbrellas and staff sweeping around the pool. The Raintree staff also claims it is ready to visit (he lied about some other things too but that's another post).
> 
> Is this the property that others have purchased and been told have not been completed? What's the story?? I will try to take some photos to post.
> 
> To make sure I am not confused. There is a finished road to the right of the hotel as you drive in with a Grand Regina sign and a security guard (no gate like the Club Regina however). We are in the Club Regina units on one side of the property....then there is the Westin Hotel. These units look different and are on the other side, multi-storied with large Lanai's.



You are looking at the Private Residences of the Grand Regina.  The  Villas are not built and will not be.


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## stevens397

1. Raintree built Grand Regina - the buildings you see.  They are Oceanfront, 2 and 3 bedroom units.  They are beautiful inside and out.  The pool area is wonderful - had a bar and a restaurant.

2. Started selling Oceanview on the side of the property away from the hotel, abutting the golf course.  My business partner bought one pre-construction about 3-4 years ago and waited and waited.

3. Raintree finally sold the new phase to Starwood who put their own name on it.  Unfortunately, as you can read elsewhere, they never did anything with it.  The lack of new business forced the developer of Grand Regina to close the restaurant.  People still have the hotel next door but not as convenient for breakfast and lunch.

4. Starwood finally pulled out due to the credit markets without every building anything.  It was turned back to Raintree.  My partner is hoping to get his money back but who knows!

so yes - those building exist and can be rented or traded into


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## stevens397

*Raintree's Offer*

Well, my business partner is not a happy camper.  Here are the numbers:

1. He paid a total of just over $64,000 for a vacation week.  He has two options:

a. $15,000 cash, payable over four years + $49,000 credit to buy something else from Raintree.

b. No cash back and a $64,000 Raintree credit.  In this scenario, Raintree will offer him a 40% discount off their normal prices.  In addition, he can buy resales at the existing Grand Regina Private Residence Club at a 40% discount.     The prices (before the discount) would range from $44,000 for a "value" week in a 2 BR to $99,000 for a Holiday week in a 3 bedroom.

If everything else was equal, taking a 3 BR Holiday week for the same money he was prepared to pay for the 2BR oceanview would be a no-brainer.  But there are some serious concerns about the long term stability of GR - they already closed the restaurant and seem to be cutting back on other things.

As I said, he's pretty pissed but there seems to be little he can do except make a decision and move on.  Interesting to see what his purchase options are.


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## LisaRex

Wow.  I'm absolutely aghast that Starwood hasn't stepped up to the plate to make him whole.  He paid a premium, no doubt because of the Starwood name and reputation, not to mention his ability to trade within SVN.   I think they (Starwood) should be working with him and giving him credit and a discount at another SVO location, should that be his preference.


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## grgs

LisaRex said:


> He paid a premium, no doubt because of the Starwood name and reputation, not to mention his ability to trade within SVN.



Didn't he buy before Starwood took over?  Or, did I misunderstand?

While I feel bad for the people in this situation, I don't believe Starwood had actually begun sales.  In that case, I'm not sure why they would be responsible for people Raintree originally sold to.  See posts #55-56 above.

Glorian


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## Denise L

I can't figure out why they aren't giving him a complete refund  .  Obviously he never got what he paid for since the villas were never built.  How can they only offer him credit?! Can he sue, or is that too expensive?  Isn't there something in a contract that says that whoever sold it to him has to deliver the product or else he gets his money back?


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## LisaRex

grgs said:


> Didn't he buy before Starwood took over?  Or, did I misunderstand?



Ah, if that's the case, then it makes more sense, although I think I remember seeing Cabo on the SVO website so I do believe they were marketing it at some point.  Perhaps the folks who contracted with Starwood did get a full refund.


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## stevens397

My sense if that:

1. Very hard, if not impossible for one person to sue a Mexican company for not delivering.  

2. Class action suits rarely do anything but make a fortune for a law firm.  The cash he was offered as part of the first scenario represented about 25% of his cash outlay.  I have never seen a situation where a class action suit yielded anything approaching that!  Again, I could be wrong here.

3. Raintree knows 1 & 2 very well.  They are being totally dishonest.  I don't think Starwood has any exposure at all.  He was happy when Starwood took it over but he never paid them a penny.

There are talks on a Google Board about suits, etc.  Seems to be a bunch of truly aggrieved people just blowing off steam. I think Raintree can be embarrassed - people across the states can speak to the press and get on TV to show how they were duped.  After Madoff, seems all TV stations are ready to broadcast the next scandal.  But in the end, other than revenge, what do you get since the only good answer may be taking up the offer for a Raintree resort.

Sad, sad, sad...


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## CeeWoo

LisaRex said:


> Here's hoping a new resort is on our horizon...




From some of the posts after yours, it sounds like we'll get your wish (maybe )

This all sounds like a real mess


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## gravitar

At my "owners update" at WPORV last month I was told that Cabo is in the network and will be completed soon. When I questioned this and mentioned everything that is going on with the property and advised the sales rep of the info posted on the starwoodvo website he promptly changed the subject.

I think with comments like this continuing Starwood would be exposing themselves to some type of liability and exposure.


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## Bruin74

We purchased a prime week at the Villas at Grand Regina in 2006 through an exchange with Raintree's Club Regina.  
We were angered by the "proposal" for buyback, which was giving us 24% of the cash we paid for the week. 
We received an e-mail today from a private residence club member who gave us the name of the attorney they residence club members are using in a class action lawsuit against either/both Raintree and Starwood.  Not sure what their complaint is about.
I would love nothing than to get my cash back and want nothing to do with either timeshare organization.  When Starwood bought the rights for the villas, we were not thrilled.  We had visited the resorts they built in Maui and were not impressed with the price, the units nor the resort (too crowded, too noisy.....).  Yet, we were hopeful that the project would be completed.  In hindsight, we owners/purchasers should have requested a buyout then since the "project" were purchased was going to be different.
It will be interesting to see how many purchasers of the villas will unite in a lawsuit.  (There is a meeting and conference call with owners scheduled for March)  It will not be pretty...........


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## LisaRex

Sorry about your troubles, Bruin. I can completely understand your anger.


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## stevens397

The saddest part to me is that these people did absolutely nothing wrong.  They purchased into an existing project that was building a new phase.  yes, it was preconstruction but the project and its amenities were all standing and functional.

It was a major league screwing.  I think my business partner is going to accept the offered deal rather than fight for a few more years.  And hell, we've made investment mistakes before.  But it certainly stings.


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## Bruin74

We received another e-mail from Grand Regina "FAQ" stating that their is not enough money to give full refunds to the Villa investors.  I wrote back stating that I would accept an offer of some cash up front, with the remaining investment dollars paid back in installments over a period of 5 years.  A company the size of Starwood, once the economy is better, should be able to come up with the cash.  
We do not plan to "wait around" while Starwood decides if/when the Villas will be built.  The development appeared to be in trouble from the start, and with possible litigation from the PRC against RAintree/Starwood, we would rather use our "refund" to purchase something else........


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## nanaboat

*Grand Regina Buy out Sucks!*



stevens397 said:


> Well, my business partner is not a happy camper.  Here are the numbers:
> 
> 1. He paid a total of just over $64,000 for a vacation week.  He has two options:
> 
> a. $15,000 cash, payable over four years + $49,000 credit to buy something else from Raintree.
> 
> b. No cash back and a $64,000 Raintree credit.  In this scenario, Raintree will offer him a 40% discount off their normal prices.  In addition, he can buy resales at the existing Grand Regina Private Residence Club at a 40% discount.     The prices (before the discount) would range from $44,000 for a "value" week in a 2 BR to $99,000 for a Holiday week in a 3 bedroom.
> 
> If everything else was equal, taking a 3 BR Holiday week for the same money he was prepared to pay for the 2BR oceanview would be a no-brainer.  But there are some serious concerns about the long term stability of GR - they already closed the restaurant and seem to be cutting back on other things.
> 
> As I said, he's pretty pissed but there seems to be little he can do except make a decision and move on.  Interesting to see what his purchase options are.



Join the club.  I too bought a villa four years ago and will incur the same loss. I would be happy not to pay maintenance fees for the equivalent value and equal years.


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## Jaydin

*Grand regina*

Does anyone know want Starwoods liability is?  Did they cancel the sale from Raintree.  In the last letter thay say we retain the right to our villa ownership.  Is this from Starwoods or Raintree?

Is there a group out there thinking about a lawsuit?

"CR resorts will return an equivalent RVC membership to you"  What does equivalent mean?

What options are people taking out there?


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## nanaboat

Jaydin said:


> Does anyone know want Starwoods liability is?  Did they cancel the sale from Raintree.  In the last letter thay say we retain the right to our villa ownership.  Is this from Starwoods or Raintree?
> 
> Is there a group out there thinking about a lawsuit?
> 
> "CR resorts will return an equivalent RVC membership to you"  What does equivalent mean?
> 
> What options are people taking out there?



I don't believe Starwood has any liability because they never concluded the contract.  This is totally Raintree.  I traded my Club Regina twobedroom prime time and put up cash for one week at the GR villas.  I am assuming I will be my two bedroom back and about 25% of my cash.  

It is unbelievable  that we put our money up front for four years and now we get back 25%.  I think the best thing we can do is post as many things on the internet to let others be aware and not buy into Raintree.  

Maybe we should have t-shirts made and wear them when we visit stating "We Got Screwed by Raintree" on one side and "Do Not Buy" on the other side.

What happen to the up front money we forked out 4 yrs. ago?  Pay us 25% cash and lower our maint. fees 50% for the remaining money owed.


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## nanaboat

*Grand Regina Buy out Sucks!*



nanaboat said:


> Join the club.  I too bought a villa four years ago and will incur the same loss. I would be happy not to pay maintenance fees for the equivalent value and equal years.



I would not put anymore money into Raintree.


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## Jaydin

*Question answered*

Three questions.

1)Please define equivalent.  Will it be the same timeshare that I traded in to buy the villas or a better one?

2) Retain the right to our villa ownership.  Who owns the villa now?  Starwoods or CR resorts?

3)  What does having access right mean?  What does that cost if I decided to visit for a week?

My counter-proposal :

1) full refund to be paid out over four years
2) Get my timeshare membership back with no maintenance fees until the full refund is paid

I hope to have answeres to my questions returned.

ANSWERS;

1)  Sapphire.  Yes.  Same.
2)  Starwood owns the Villa land and the rights to develop the Villas.
3)  You may use additional RVC time (over and above your Sapphire) by simply paying the applicable maint fee.

CR Resorts Holding, S. de R.L. de C.V. cannot accept your counter proposal.

Sincerely,
Brian Tucker
Authorized Agent
CR Resorts Holding, S. de R.L. de C.V.


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## UpsetTexan

*Grand Regina Villas*

Like many who purchased a Villa, I'm madder than hell! I traded my Club Regina timeshare plus cash. Now nearly 4.5 years later, I'm being offered 25% of the net cash price, an equivalent RVC membership (subject to paying annual maintenance fees) to the one I traded and the ability to maintain ownership to the Villa that may or not be built sometime in the future.

Has anyone received a more "generous" offer? If so, I would be interested in knowing what Raintree has agreed to in order to settle this mess!


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## Henry M.

I'm confused. Are they offering you 25% of the net cash price and an RVC membership for you to agree to wait longer and "trust them" or are you to part ways after the transaction completes?

Both options stink but they are not quite the same.


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## stevens397

It's basically 25% back (but paid over 2 years, every six months!).  The balance is credit towards a Raintree purchase.

People can elect to take nothing and wait for the project to be completed.  People can also elect to thrust a stick in their eyes!  

In the end, the purchasers have very, very little leverage.


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## LisaRex

All I can offer up is my sympathy.


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## divenski

A somewhat similar and even more egregious situation is that Donald Trump was involved with a condo project in the Baja region of Mexico. According to recent news articles, some people put down deposits as large as $200K two or three years ago, now the whole project has folded, Trump says his name was used incorrectly, lawsuits are flying, and supposedly ALL the money is gone.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20090307/BIZ/703079911

Buyer beware in Mexico!


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## UpsetTexan

*Grand Regina Villas*

To clarify my post on 03/27, I listed "one" option with all of the following to apply:

1) A 25% refund of the net cash purchase exclusive of the Club Regina Timeshare Membership traded toward the gross purchase of the villa. This amount is payable in one payment within 90 days of the date I accept their proposal; and

2) Reinstatement of my CR timeshare membership with annual maintenance fees payable; and

3) Maintaining ownership of my villa rights if or when they are ever constructed by Starwood, Raintree or any other entity.

There was another option available and it provided a 35% refund payable over a 4 year period, an upgrade from a Gold to a Platinum RVC membership with annual maintenance fees payable and ownership of the Villa rights would be relinquished.

None of these are great options but under the circumstances, however, I think getting 25% of my money back in 90 days is a better option than 35% being paid out over a 4 year period.


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## triangle

*Update on Grand Regina Villas Project*

For anyone interested, you can go to this site and get the latest on this project and the lawsuit.  http://www.cabogateway.com/rentals.html
This group of owners has every intention of seeking full restitution and justice 
from both Starwood and Raintree.


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## LisaRex

Good luck to you.  I can't even imagine how angry I'd be at how poorly you were all treated by Raintree.


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## jarta

Update on the Cabo suit.

The suit (Charles Adams, et al. v. Diamond Resorts Interntional, et al.) is still grinding through the court system.  249 separate plaintiffs.  Several defendants but the two main ones are Diamond Resorts International and Starwood Vacation Ownership.

The case was removed from the Circuit Court of Cook County and is pending in the US District Court for the Northern District of Illinois as Docket No. 10-CV-03264.  The suit has not been dismissed as to either Starwood or Diamond Resorts.

Right now the plaintiffs and Diamond are fighting about the degree of relatedness of Diamond Resorts International to its alleged wholly owned subsidiary, DTI.  Diamond says there is not a sufficient degree of relatedness for Diamond, rather than DTI, to be a party.

Starwood is defending saying that venue of the dispute lies in Mexico since all of the plaintiff/DTI contracts to purchase so provide.

DTI collected earnest deposit money on purchase contracts and failed to properly secure the escrow of it.  Some of the missing money has allegedly been traced to Diamond.  Diamond is alleged to have paid off existing debt to Starwood with the missing earnest money.  It is also alleged that Starwood took the money from Diamond knowing full well where it came from (the escrow).  Starwood never took any money directly from the plaintiffs.  It claims it was merely a joint venturer with Diamond to build the timeshare so that DTI could fulfill the existing contracts - but the economy turned sour and it pulled out of the joint venture and it had never assumed any duties or made any binding promises to the plaintiffs.

Diamond offered a partial repayment which was rejected by the plaintiffs before they filed suit.  Starwood has never offered any amount of money back to the plaintiffs.  

It looks like both main defendants are now trying to exhaust the resources of the plaintiffs (and their counsel) by raising these two defenses.  They are fighting this suit; they do not look like they will cave.

Hearings on both issues (relatedness and venue) should take place soon.  Disclaimer:  one of my business clients and his wife (I am also good friends with his attorney father) are plaintiffs in the case.   ...   eom


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## johnrsrq

*any updates to Grand Regina*

sorry to come years later but if this suit still exists could you update info. I merely won an auction to two weeks, transfer paid and this years (2014) fees paid, Had to grant POA to resort rep to process beneficiary trust transfer.

any info would be helpful.... going there in fall.


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## johnrsrq

*nevermind*



johnrsrq said:


> sorry to come years later but if this suit still exists could you update info. I merely won an auction to two weeks, transfer paid and this years (2014) fees paid, Had to grant POA to resort rep to process beneficiary trust transfer.
> 
> any info would be helpful.... going there in fall.



I decided to stop the purchase of this at basically $0. as the time wore on for the sellers to get the paperwork- 4 + months, and the unknown of how a delinquent new owner might be dinged (credit) in the future for non payment of this Mexican PVR aka fractional ownership. I rescinded the POA given to resort official to sign on my behalf and await my going to property to inspect.
The sellers would not wait for me in 90 days as I have waited 120. 

Now, the Title company wants a closing fee or Apostille fee of $50 and document fee of 350. for my not willing to go on with this mess. Not sure to all but I think if you haven't closed in almost 4 months, not the buyers proble but I shall see. And whatever offer for me to go there, not on their dime, inspect and then buy, is now, off the table.


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## DonnaD

*Grand Regina and Club Regina in Cabo*

I am currently staying at Club Regina called Raintree Vacation Club now.  We went up to visit the Grand Regina section the other night to watch the sunset from their deck. The fractional ownership section of resort is complete and beautiful. I do not know about the Villa project that was discussed on this posting.  Our timeshare section is beautiful and the staff is wonderful. We are having a lovely vacation. Our resort is on the corridor about 1/3 of way from San Jose toward San Lucas.  We love it here, but it helps to rent a car if you want to sight see.


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## gkbiiii

I was in the process of buying here, from a generous ebay offering: thankfully you all, convinced me to get out, while I could!!

Nice offer though, all fees paid, 2014 usage, $700 Visa card, etc.


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