# Is it inconsiderate to upgrade your exchange when you can easily use a smaller Unit?



## Beefnot (Jan 6, 2012)

I've been smartening up on this whole timeshare exchanging business and I am already very ecstatic with the exchange I've scored with my first timeshare purchase.  My ongoing request was filled within 4 days, so I didn't have to sweat for long.  But during that 4-day sweat and worry over whether I'd be able to take my family to San Diego for spring break, I began to ponder how many 2 bedrooms were not available because they were scooped up by studio/1 BR owners scooping up 2 BRs, even if their planned occupancy did not require the extra BR.

So, just a philosophical question, is it inconsiderate to swipe a 2 BR in a high demand area just because the system lets you?  I'm not talking about Scottsdale in July/August, I'm talking about high demand areas.  And I'm only speaking to circumstances under which a 1BR would have been sufficient to house the traveling party.  

Should we have some sort of moral compass that says "You know what, it's just me and the wife, and yeah, sure I'd like to have that extra bedroom to read or watch TV while she is snoring it up.  But I could do that on the couch in the living room too, and besides, this is Hawaii and there are a lot of my fellow timeshare travelers that do genuinely require 2 BRs for their larger families, so maybe I should just book a 1BR."

I do recognize that human nature being what it is, we tend to do what we are can get away with.  In the absence of rules restricting certain behaviors, people will tend to do what is in their own selfish interests.  Realistically, I'd probably do the same under similar circumstances.  But just because I can, does that make it right?

Granted, that raises another question.  Flexchange period aside, why do the exchange companies grant the ability for ST/1BRs to book a 2BR at all, or well at least for the same exchange fee?  Not even an upgrade charge or anything if they want to exchange up?


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 6, 2012)

I think you are talking about II.  If you trade up with a II exchange, it almost always means that you did an Instant Online Exchange, which requires some skills, persistence, and the right trader.

So basically you are asking, if you should leave that trade behind, for someone who doesn't have the tools to get it before you do.

My answer - NOPE!  



> Flexchange period aside, why do the exchange companies grant the ability for ST/1BRs to book a 2BR at all, or well at least for the same exchange fee? Not even an upgrade charge or anything if they want to exchange up?



Sometimes you can trade up because of your trading power or internal priority within a system.  It doesn't cost the exchange company anything to let you upgrade, so do you really want to pay them extra for it and let them make even more from traders?  That upgrade fee would go in their pocket - no thanks!


----------



## jkkee (Jan 6, 2012)

I've taken a 2 bedroom when I knew it would just be my husband and I because that was all that was available when and where I wanted to go.  And I'll often get a 2 Bedroom and then invite another couple to join us.  On occasion we haven't found someone and the second bedroom remains empty.   I personally don't feel there is anything wrong with that.  I've also gotten a 2 bedroom with another couple who has committed to going with us, and had them back out.


----------



## Passepartout (Jan 6, 2012)

If I make an exchange, and the resort gives me a 2br when I've requested a 1br, I shrug and figure I have a great storage room for suitcases. In short, no guilt at all. I might call one of the kids or a friend and offer the extra room,  but that's about it.

Jim


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 6, 2012)

Besides, you may forgo a 2 bdm., and the next guy may grab it and rent it on ebay for a fat profit!


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 6, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> So basically you are asking, if you should leave that trade behind, for someone who doesn't have the tools to get it before you do.



No, I'm pondering whether one should leave it behind for a more "deserving" exchanger.  There could theoretically be folks who cannot go to certain resorts or at certain times of the year because they cannot get the size room they actually need because Passepartout wants to store some suitcases  



DeniseM said:


> Sometimes you can trade up because of your trading power or internal priority within a system.  It doesn't cost the exchange company anything to let you upgrade, so do you really want to pay them extra for it and let them make even more from traders?  That upgrade fee would go in their pocket - no thanks!



Fair point, although by charging a higher fee it makes the exchanger think more deeply about whether they really want that 150 sq. foot suitcase closet.  If folks are not willing to spend more for a 2BR, they just don't book it.  Could be a win-win for the system in that we might see more allocation of larger units to those who actually require them while also putting a few more dollars in II's pockets. Dunno.


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 6, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Besides, you may forgo a 2 bdm., and the next guy may grab it and rent it on ebay for a fat profit!



And in a perfect world have his exchange privileges permanently revoked.


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 6, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Could be a win-win for the system in that we might see more allocation of larger units to those who actually require them while also putting a few more dollars in II's pockets. Dunno.



I have to disagree - how do owners win by paying II more money?  

IMNSHO, this would allocate larger units to people who can afford to pay the upgrade fee, not necessarily people who are more deserving.

In fact, I should delete your post before II sees it!  If they start charging for upgrades, I'm blaming  you!


----------



## ronparise (Jan 6, 2012)

Good point but Im still going to reserve the 2 bedroom if its available


----------



## klpca (Jan 6, 2012)

I think this is an interesting point. Most of us seem to be big on maximizing our timeshare ownership so getting a 2 bedroom for a studio feels like such a great deal! So I think that it is just human nature to grab the 2 bedroom.  But if a 1 bedroom is sufficient and there is a 2 bedroom available, leaving that unit for someone else would be the nice thing to do. I usually grab the 2 bedroom and hope that one of our kids will join us or perhaps some friends, but perhaps I should give this some extra thought in the future.

I wouldn't give it a second thought if the resort only has dedicated 2 bedroom units however.


----------



## vckempson (Jan 6, 2012)

For many locations, a 1 bdrm isn't just one less bdrm than a 2 bdrm unit.  Often, the 2 bdrm unit has larger living space, kitchen and bath.  I hate a cramped 1 bdrm and will book a 2 bdrm instead, even though I now have to pay more TPU's in RCI for it.  

Even for our Wyndham exchanges, I'll often pay more points to get a 2 bdrm.  I just did that for a San Antonio Riverwalk stay this fall.


----------



## bnoble (Jan 6, 2012)

> I'm pondering whether one should leave it behind for a more "deserving" exchanger.


If I only need a 1BR, that's all I request.  If I end up being offered a 2BR instead, I take it, and I don't look back.  I am firmly in the bird-in-the-hand camp.  I'm most concerned about my own vacations.  Why should I risk losing out on my vacation for someone else?

I freely admit that that's not a very "nice" attitude.  But, it is what it is.


----------



## zcrider (Jan 6, 2012)

I guess I am the only one that agrees with beefnot.  If it is just me and hubby I would never grab a two bedroom if there is a one bedroom available and both have a full kitchen and laundry in the room.  That is just greedy if you know the extra room will be going to waste and you are just keep a family from being able to vacation that week too.  Boo to those of you who do that.  Now if you hope to have others join you that is different and fair to do.  But if you know you will not invite anyone else and the units are equal except the extra room that is bad manners and your momma should have taught you better.  (and most of the two bedrooms I look at are a full size one bedroom with a studio lockout as the second bedroom, so same size living and kitchen).  If all isn't equal, then yeah pick the better one, but so often it is equal other then the extra studio room attached and this example seems to me what the OP is talking about.


----------



## alexadeparis (Jan 6, 2012)

zcrider said:


> I guess I am the only one that agrees with beefnot.  If it is just me and hubby I would never grab a two bedroom* if there is a one bedroom available* and both have a full kitchen and laundry in the room.



I agree with this that you should only take what you think you can use - to a point. If I am looking for a normal resort and they only have one unit for the timeframe, I am taking it even if it's a 2 bedroom and I only need a one bedroom. If there is one of each available I will take only what I need. 

But, for those rarified "once in a lifetime" II resorts, like Harborside, if I see a unit, it's mine - even if it were a 3 bedroom - i will find people to go with! I would take that over a 1 bedroom - that's how I make some MF back - charge my relatives for their portion of the room.


----------



## yumdrey (Jan 6, 2012)

A few months ago, I had my own trip, just by myself. I didn't need a 2BR unit, but Marriott's Ocean Watch in Myrtle Beach has dedicated 2BR only.
I never touched 2nd bedroom, wished I could use only 1BR or studio, but I had no choice.
If there's only 2BR available for my desired date, I would pick 2BR, but if there are more choices (studio and 1 BR), I would pick 1BR, not 2BR.


----------



## heathpack (Jan 6, 2012)

Also a fan of the concept of not taking more than we need.  Usually a 1BR is all we need, would prefer to have no more unless someone else is joining us.

H


----------



## BevL (Jan 7, 2012)

We usually take a two bedroom because it seems somebody will join us even if we're not sure who when we confirm two years ahead of time.  But a couple of times we know for sure we're going by ourselves.  If there's a one bedroom and a two bedroom online, I'll take the one.  

But if I had an ongoing search and a two bedroom matched, no way I'd throw it back for the next guy.


----------



## LynnW (Jan 7, 2012)

The only reason I like it when we get a 2 bedroom is the extra bathroom. It seems that a lot of the older resorts have 1 bedroom units with 2 bathrooms but not so much now.

Lynn


----------



## Goofyhobbie (Jan 7, 2012)

*My Two Cents!!*

You know what, it is great to know that there are folks out there that consider others when they make their personal travel arrangements; but when it comes to timesharing it is usually the luck of the draw or good planning that puts one in the position to exchange for a larger unit than one could get by without. 

Until I read this thread it had never occurred to me that my choice might inconvenience some stranger that might have wanted to use the larger unit that I was able to grab.

Since 1985, we felt that trading evenly or trading up was what we paid for and worked for and should have when we take a vacation.  As for the other guy, I do not know who he or she might be so I choose to leave it alone. 

When it comes right down to it, I really could care less about giving up space to someone I do not know who failed to get access prior to my exchange. 

Remember why you purchased your timeshare!  In my case the purchase was made because I like having a home away from home that is sometimes bigger than I actually need.  

Because both my DW and I snore and/or because I like to stay up very late, I require at least a two bedroom unit when I travel and I will always go for a two bedroom unit or larger. 

Although my original 2-BR units and later larger units were purchased because of the size of my family I still enjoy the space.  Now that I am retired and there are usually only the two of us, I still want at least a quid-pro-quo or larger when making an exchange.

When and if someone joins us in a larger unit that is fine; but not something that necessarily goes into the thought process when making the exchange.


----------



## dougp26364 (Jan 7, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I've been smartening up on this whole timeshare exchanging business and I am already very ecstatic with the exchange I've scored with my first timeshare purchase.  My ongoing request was filled within 4 days, so I didn't have to sweat for long.  But during that 4-day sweat and worry over whether I'd be able to take my family to San Diego for spring break, I began to ponder how many 2 bedrooms were not available because they were scooped up by studio/1 BR owners scooping up 2 BRs, even if their planned occupancy did not require the extra BR.
> 
> So, just a philosophical question, is it inconsiderate to swipe a 2 BR in a high demand area just because the system lets you?  I'm not talking about Scottsdale in July/August, I'm talking about high demand areas.  And I'm only speaking to circumstances under which a 1BR would have been sufficient to house the traveling party.
> 
> ...



I use to take only the size unit we needed but, in the land of lock-off units, neighbor noise could be a problem. It seemed we always got someone who was loud and inconsiderate. 

First, we stopped taking studio units. We had elderly neighbors in Vegas once who desperately needed to turn up their hearing aids. We wanted to sleep in, they woke up with the chickens and announced their morning awakening loud enough for the entire south end of Vegas to hear them. We were never able to sleep past 06:00 AM and were often awakened by their shouting to each other (in what was normal conversation) by 05:00 AM. We've also been next door to the cabinet slammers when we were in a studio unit and loud all night TV watchers when we were in the one bedroom section of a 2 bedroom lock-out unit.

So we started taking mostly two bedroom units. We do take the occasional one bedroom unit depending on the resort and the unit layout. We once thought that thinking backfired on us at Westgate Branson Woods when we heard some EXTREMELY noisy neighbors in the studio lock-off section of a two bedroom unit when we had accepted only the one bedroom side. Fortunately, they were suppose to have been in a two bedroom unit and has been miss-assigned by the front desk. The woman just kept trying over and over to open our door (think 15 to 20 times) and complaining loudly that her key wouldn't work rather than go back to the front desk. You should have seen the look in her eyes when I opened the front door and asked if I could help her. 

The smallest unit we'll take is a one bedroom and we much prefer to two bedroom unit whenever we can get it. We never accept a studio unit. Even in our points based systems where we own I much prefer to spend the points and take a two bedroom unit rather than stretch our points and take studio units or one bedroom units.   

It's been through the inconsideration of others that we take larger units than we need, just to give us a little more peace of mind that our chances of having a quite vacation vs dealing with some inconsiderate person who thinks everyone likes noise (TV, radio, banging cabinets or just plain talking loud enough for the astronauts to hear as the circle the planet). 

Of course I can't do anything about the thundering heard of elephants who sometimes occupy the unit directly above us other than be more selective about the resorts we'll stay at. I try to select resorts that are concrete construction vs wood construtcion. Concrete flooring offers better insultation from floor stompers than does wood construction buildings. There are a couple of resorts in Branson I refuse to accept due (Westgate Branson Woods and Palace View South) because we can hear every footstep above us and, those below us can probably hear us every time we walk across the floor. We even purchased a penthouse unit once, just to make sure we were always on the top floor of a resort we liked.


----------



## amycurl (Jan 7, 2012)

This is an interesting thread. I do feel wasteful when it's just two of us and we end up in a two bedroom....Last May, we got a two bedroom, direct oceanfront, top floor unit at the Royal Caribbean (on an AC from II, no less...I have no idea how that happened.) It felt odd to have the whole lock off portion go to waste, but my only choice was either the studio or the two bedroom, and, for me, the appeal of timeshares is having a full kitchen. If we could have gotten just the large 1 bedroom, we probably would have taken it (also because it would have been $100 cheaper, based on the AC.) We had debated inviting another couple with us, but it was a delayed 10th anniversary trip, and it just didn't feel right. 

The other time I've felt that way was our first trade into HHI, in the huge garden units at Barony (where even the second bathroom has the large jacuzzi tubs, etc.) In that case, a second couple had backed out too late for us to find someone else to come along. 

Maybe it's just part of my upbringing, but I try to get only what I need. Now that we have a child, though, a two bedroom makes life much easier.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 7, 2012)

As I travel alone many times, I seldom book a studio. I have a 5 bdr home - why would I want a single room? That is why I like to timeshare.

As for using a 2bdr verses a 1 bdr? Yes, I have slept in multiple 2 bdr units over the years. There is a lot of truth about noise from lockoffs - my favorite being the spanking between two adults - totally stopped when I added my groans of happiness by the lockout door.  

I booked my brother a 3 bdr upgrade instead of a 1bdr presidential as he is a total bathroom hog. He will sit in the bathroom for hours to read - so I gave his wife a 2nd bathroom. She loved me. 

As for couples who sleep apart, snoring is a good reason but so is that flopping that waterbed owners do. Or all night TV sleepers. Or causal opposite sex friends who are NOT initimate who travel together. And yes, I have had several invited friends who cancel a day or two before a trip.


----------



## donnaval (Jan 7, 2012)

I love to get a 2-br unit, because we always ask others to go with us and it turns into a lot of fun.  Sometimes we can't find anyone to join us, but that is okay too since DH has a sleep disorder and he can use the 2nd bedroom if needed.   We also absolutely prefer having two baths over one - we do at home and it's really difficult to accommodate each other's bad habits while we are away lol.  We tend to be last-minute travelers, and I have no issues at all with grabbing the largest unit I can get.  By the time the unit makes it online, that means it has already passed through the requests.  If a large family absolutely has to have a big unit and didn't take the little bit of extra effort to snap it up before it hits cyberspace - oh well.  Besides, my not taking it does not guarantee that the large family will get it anyway.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jan 7, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> If I make an exchange, and the resort gives me a 2br when I've requested a 1br, I shrug and figure I have a great storage room for suitcases. In short, no guilt at all. I might call one of the kids or a friend and offer the extra room,  but that's about it.
> 
> Jim



Way back when I first started reading TUG somebody posted something about having suitcases which enjoyed their stays in the second bedrooms.  :rofl:   I got a kick out of that - was it you?

I'll admit that the OP's thought has never crossed my mind.  If it did I'd probably follow it all the way through to, "gee, Don and I should never take anything bigger than a studio when it's just the two of us because even a 1BR could be used by somebody with a party of 4."

And I'll freely admit, I'll never give up a 1BR for a studio.

We own 2- and 3BR units and invite people to come along with us most of the time.  But a few trips we've gone alone and I won't give up the owner's priority for unit view and placement that comes with home resort usage.  Exchanging is different (especially now with Marriott's new points system that lets us tailor our exchanges to unit size and view) and we generally don't request any more bedrooms than what we need.  But again, not giving up a 1BR for a studio.  Ever.


----------



## chriskre (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm doing two vacations this year by myself.
One to Manhattan Club the other to a beach resort in Ft. Lauderdale.

A studio would have been suffucient if I follow your thinking but heck I don't care about someone else's vacation.  I'm taking the 1 bedroom and not feeling the least bit guilty about it.   

That's why I timeshare.  Regardless of whether I'm maxing out the occupancy or not I want to be comfortable on my vacation.  I don't live in a studio so really don't want to vacation in one unless that's my only option like my upcoming trip to Barcelona thru Citadines.  

If I'm doing an exchange I try to get the most bang for my buck, but if I'm using my points in a mini system and it's all about points stretching then I'll book just what I need but rarely a studio unless it's an expensive place.


----------



## jhac007 (Jan 7, 2012)

LynnW said:


> The only reason I like it when we get a 2 bedroom is the extra bathroom. It seems that a lot of the older resorts have 1 bedroom units with 2 bathrooms but not so much now.
> 
> Lynn



EXACTLY.......my reasoning also.  Many times the bathroom is on the smaller side and my wife (honestly) needs lots of space.  The trip goes a lot smoother if we have separate bathrooms.  When the infrequent occassion arises that we have to get a hotel room it usually turns out to be a disaster!  At home there are sufficient bathrooms even when there is company present.  The resorts always like to say it's *"your home away from home"*.......well that's why I got involved in timesharing.

Jim


----------



## MichaelColey (Jan 7, 2012)

I think it's fine.  A larger unit usually has a nicer kitchen and nicer living area, more plates and stuff (have to run the dishwasher less often), and you would also have more flexibility to invite others or entertain.


----------



## Larry (Jan 7, 2012)

*If they give me a 2BR I'm taking it!!!!*

I always will take a 2BR over a 1BR or studio for several reasons;

1) As others have indicated I prefer getting 2BR's over 1BR because I want a second bathroom. Much easier getting ready in the morning or going out for dinner with a second bathroom.

2) I have stayed at several Mexican resorts and Caribbean resorts were the 2BR units have the best ocean views and many times they are Ocean front, where the studios and 1BR units have less desirable views or almost no views to speak of.

I once stayed in a 2BR oceanfront unit and loved it. I also saw the 1BR 
0ceanfront unit and would have hated it. Why? The 2BR had ocean front views from both the LR and Master BR and had a huge balcony extending in front of both LR and MBR. The 1BR had 1/2 of the square footage and Bedroom was in the back of the unit facing a catwalk where I'm sure you could hear anyone walking by at night. The Ocean view was only from the LR with a balcony half the size of the 2BR.

2) Many resorts have much larger full kitchens, balconies dining areas etc. than studio or 1BR units. Washers and dryers and even diswashers are sometimes only included in 2BR units at some resorts that I have stayed at.

3) Studio's and even 1BR units sometimes only have one TV and my wife and I almost never watch the same thing. One time when we went to St. Lucia my wife wasn't feeling well and went to bed and I watched a Giants playoff game in a downstairs second BR that I used as my den and watched the game without disturbing my wife.

4) Second BR can be used to store luggage as someone else indicated.

5) I hate having to make my own bed and clean my timeshare on vacation and unlike many tuggers prefer timeshares with daily maid service. 

When we don't get daily maid service. having a second BR let's me switch BR's a couple of times during the week, giving me a newly made bed with fresh clean sheets until I at least get a midweek cleaning. 

6) Taking family and friends is not even a consideration for me unless I can at least have a 2BR unit and when I get one with a studio or a 1BR so much the better.

If I can get an upgrade I'm taking it every time


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

I appreciate reading the diversity of responses.  There were a couple folks who possess an internal mechanism that keeps them from exercising "exchange gluttony", and I applaud them for that.   I did notice that a number of folks' reasoning revolves around the _utility_ of booking 2BRs over 1BRs without addressing the _ethics_ of doing so under specific circumstances.  A few folks pulled no punches with a de facto "eff 'em" response.  In either of those cases, it is evident that the underlying sentiment is one of self-service.  Most do not feel any civic responsibility to care about their fellow travelers under any circumstance.

Honestly, I don't have an active beef with this self-serving, consumerist approach to exchanging.  But I do see a certain nobility to the self-restraint exercised by some, whether it stems from a sense of civic responsibility or puritanical guilt toward over-consumption.  A few more thoughts:

(a) I agree that there are a million different good reasons for up-trading.  I might well do so if given the opportunity.

(b) Although it would definitely be noble for a 2BR owner to exchange down for a 1BR and be compensated with an AC if s/he does not require that extra bedroom for the planned trip, it is difficult to begrudge someone a like-for-like exchange, regardless of the size of their traveling party.  They own a 2BR, pay MF on a 2BR, and are entitled to a 2BR in exchange.

(c) In areas that are over-supplied, under-demanded, or off-season, the ethics of up-trading are moot for the most part.  Their is no one who is harmed in these scenarios.  Everyone gets the vacation they want, and no one is left out. 

(d)  Provided that it is clear that I am primarily only debating scenarios where demand is expected to outstrip supply, I view this topic somewhat similar to how I feel about the procurement of supplies in times of emergency.  Although a particular store may permit me to hoard more batteries and water than I could ever personally use for the emergency at hand, it's probably not the most responsible thing for me to do given that my actions may well create shortages for those who come after me.  On the other hand, it may be more effective for that store to either ration those supplies or charge a premium for quantities that exceed some certain amount, thereby forcibly resolving that ethical dilemma for me.  Either the consumer cannot have above a certain amount or they will need to pay more above a certain amount, forcing the consumer to calculate their own marginal utility of procuring more than they need.

With respect to exchanges, If I have a ST/1BR and am systematically able to secure a 2BR, I would be an advocate that the system be modified to disincentivize that practice or manipulate behavior (e.g, charge premiums for up-trades above 1BR for certain resorts, locations, and/or time periods) if that would help to more "equitably" allocate inventory among the customer base.  If the exchange companies tacked on some sort of premium for up-trading bedrooms,  I would not be opposed to it...although my TUG log-on might immediately stop working if that were to happen.


----------



## zcrider (Jan 8, 2012)

dougp26364 said:


> I use to take only the size unit we needed but, in the land of lock-off units, neighbor noise could be a problem. It seemed we always got someone who was loud and inconsiderate.
> 
> First, we stopped taking studio units. We had elderly neighbors in Vegas once who desperately needed to turn up their hearing aids. We wanted to sleep in, they woke up with the chickens and announced their morning awakening loud enough for the entire south end of Vegas to hear them. We were never able to sleep past 06:00 AM and were often awakened by their shouting to each other (in what was normal conversation) by 05:00 AM. We've also been next door to the cabinet slammers when we were in a studio unit and loud all night TV watchers when we were in the one bedroom section of a 2 bedroom lock-out unit.
> 
> ...



There is a very easy solution to this, take a white noise machine with you.  I always do and have never been disturbed once by any neighbors.  Marsona makes the best one I have tried and they have a small travel size for about $80 (Wal-mart.com) it will drown out everything else even the heard of elephants above you.   Just remember to adjust the sliders on the bottom until it is the pitch and volume you like best.  I am very sensitive to the type of white noise, that is why I like this brand it is adjustable!  The version for the house ($50) is the very best sound, but does NOT travel well as getting tossed around will ruin it.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> ....  I did notice that a number of folks' reasoning revolves around the _utility_ of booking 2BRs over 1BRs without addressing the _ethics_ of doing so under specific circumstances.  A few folks pulled no punches with a de facto "eff 'em" response.  In either of those cases, it is evident that the underlying sentiment is one of self-service.  Most do not feel any civic responsibility to care about their fellow travelers under any circumstance....



I hope you understand that "personal space" to feel relaxed is not un-civic or self-service. Some people can tolerate a person speaking to them within 4 to 6 inches of their face; others will, without thought, step back a pace or two, for more personal space. If the person closes the space again, the other will definitely terminate the interaction and flee (unless it is a police officier or their employer).


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jan 8, 2012)

*You're Kidding, Right ?*




Beefnot said:


> Is it inconsiderate to upgrade your exchange when you can easily use a smaller Unit?


Shux, whatever's being offered that I care to snag is OK to snag, period.  

_Mox nix_ the size or season or location.  

If it's available & I want it _and_ I'm willing to pay the points or money or TPUs, etc., that it takes to get it, then that's nobody's business but mine & the people handling the reservation.

_Full Disclosure*:*_  We checked in last night into a Gold Crown 2BR unit that we reserved on sale last fall.  We could have reserved 1BR at the same resort at the same price, but we did not think twice about snagging the 2BR unit.  January before last we snagged back to back 3BR units at 2 outstanding Orlando timeshares -- same points & same exchange fee as it would have been for smaller units.  Other than acting quick to get'm while they were still there, we likewise did not think twice.  In all 3 examples, other people joined us during all or parts of the times we had reserved the more spacious units.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Sandy VDH (Jan 8, 2012)

I never know who or who will not travel with us.  So I often take the largest unit that is offered to me, for the same price and trade.  Now with TPUs I may more likely take the size I think I need. 

However via Wyndham bookings, with short notice bookings, I am entitled to a complimentary upgrade if available.  So often I take it.  Some times I am going to that resorts expressly to see a certain unit type or configuration.  Sometimes it is the only unit available. 

I don't feel bad.  Neither should you.


----------



## vckempson (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I did notice that a number of folks' reasoning revolves around the _utility_ of booking 2BRs over 1BRs without addressing the _ethics_ of doing so under specific circumstances.  A few folks pulled no punches with a de facto "eff 'em" response.  In either of those cases, it is evident that the underlying sentiment is one of self-service.  Most do not feel any civic responsibility to care about their fellow travelers under any circumstance.
> 
> :



Let's see, I have a big 4 bdrm house, and I mean BIG.  It's just me and my wife that live here.  "Dang,  that's unethical.  I need to downsize so that some more deserving people, someone with 6 kids can make use of my house."  

That's absurd.  If I like having having more space in a 2 bdrm TS, for whatever reason, that's my business.    

There are no ethics involved here.  "Civic responsibility?"  Give me a break.  It's a business transaction, and certainly not one to be compared to emergency supplies.  But now that you mention it, I need 19 lanterns to light my house when the electricity goes out.  Let's see, that's 4 batteries per lantern or 76 D batteries.  "I'll take all you have left.":hysterical:  "Just kidding, a pack of 8 will do."


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 8, 2012)

vckempson said:


> Let's see, I have a big 4 bdrm house, and I mean BIG.  It's just me and my wife that live here.



Cullen, I wrote almost the exact same words about my 5 bdr house on almost 4 acres of ground, with a 23 ft long run of kitchen cabinets on 1 wall with eatin space for 8, and a dining room which seats 22+ persons. And I live in a part of the state where my neighbors' lots are only 72 feet wide. Yes, a good 5' chain link fence makes them and their kids better neighbors. 

And I live alone. My personal space needs have always been more as I grew up in a family of 5 children with our parents, 8 cats and a dog.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I appreciate reading the diversity of responses.  There were a couple folks who possess an internal mechanism that keeps them from exercising *"exchange gluttony"*, and I applaud them for that.   I did notice that a number of folks' reasoning revolves around the _utility_ of booking 2BRs over 1BRs without addressing the _ethics_ of doing so under specific circumstances.  A few folks pulled no punches with a *de facto "eff 'em"* response.  In either of those cases, it is evident that the underlying sentiment is one of self-service.  Most do not feel any *civic responsibility* to care about their fellow travelers under any circumstance.
> 
> Honestly, I don't have an active beef with this *self-serving, consumerist approach* to exchanging.  But I do see a *certain nobility to the self-restraint* exercised by some, whether it stems from a sense of civic responsibility or *puritanical guilt toward over-consumption*.  A few more thoughts:
> 
> ...



I had to stop there with the bolding, the stuff was getting to deep.  But comparing uptrading a timeshare exchange to taking more than the fair share of what's needed for you and your fellow citizens to survive a civic emergency?!  Good gravy!

   You've got to be kidding.  This is timesharing!  The reason most of us got into timesharing as a way to vacation is because the facilities usually give us more space than a hotel room to spread out and relax and rejuvenate!

I will just never understand the folks who insist on putting morality clauses into timesharing.  Never.  Even though apparently, my never settling for a studio when a 1BR or larger is available puts me squarely in the "eff you all" group.  And apparently, that means I need to be taught a morality lesson.  I was a pretty good student, respectful of my teachers and attentive to the material. But this is one lesson I'm going to flunk because I'm taking a seat in the back row and spending the hour writing silly notes to all the others who are as selfish as me.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> Cullen, I wrote almost the exact same words about my 5 bdr house on almost 4 acres of ground, with a 23 ft long run of kitchen cabinets on 1 wall with eatin space for 8, and a dining room which seats 22+ persons. And I live in a part of the state where my neighbors' lots are only 72 feet wide. Yes, a good 5' chain link fence makes them and their kids better neighbors.
> 
> And I live alone. *My personal space needs have always been more as I grew up in a family of 5 children with our parents, 8 cats and a dog.*



Interesting point.  I grew up in a 5BR home with 2 parents, a grandfather, 10 siblings and various dogs, cats, chameleons, guinea pigs, birds, etc.  Don grew up in a 4BR home with 2 parents, 6 siblings and at least one dog at any given time.

No wonder we're gluttonous selfish timesharing pigs.


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> I hope you understand that "personal space" to feel relaxed is not un-civic or self-service.



I quite understand that having extra space to store suitcases, or having an extra bathroom, or whatever else helps one to be more relaxed because it is one less stress. Not debating that. If you're suggesting that someone would elect not to travel and/or not enjoy their vacation because they were confined to 1br, I reject that assertion. 

Relatively speaking, having more space is definitely more desirable, of course, the civic-mindedness comes into play when, faced with scarcity, do we place our marginal utility of having The extra space above the requisite utility of another theoretical family.  Now, human nature being what it is, if that theoretical family instead became one's kids or close friends, we would then see how quickly a 1br becomes quite satisfactory for one's needs. Precisely because we don't have any connection to this theoretical family, or no assurance that this unit would not be hoarded by some other goomba, we tend to elevate our own marginal utility.  This is very analogous to how people operate during times of scarcity if left to their own devices,

The only "remedy" to human nature is through regulation or market mechanisms. Regulation, e.g., prohibition of renting exchanges; Market mechanisms, e.g., charging an extra exchange fee to upgrade a previously confirmed exchange. A scarcity restriction or premium would be one more mechanism that exchange companies to employ that might improve overall _public_ utility (and perhaps their bottom lines if implemented correctly), at the expense of certain individuals' _personal_ utility.


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Even though apparently, my never settling for a studio when a 1BR or larger is available puts me squarely in the "eff you all" group.



I put studios and 1BRs in the same camp. I agree, this is timesharing, and there should be some sort of "entitlement" to a 1br if one so desires.  But there should be an entitlement to a 2br also...for a premium


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

If it cost an extra $99 to trade that 1br to a 2br in San Diego during spring break, folks would think longer and harder about how bad they need an extra bedroom. Economics can engineer behavior that human nature typically does not.


----------



## Larry (Jan 8, 2012)

*Why are some just talking about upgrading????*



Beefnot said:


> Relatively speaking, having more space is definitely more desirable, of course, the civic-mindedness comes into play when, faced with scarcity,  _personal_ utility.



OK so if civic mindedness comes into play when, faced with scarcity.

So why are we just talking about upgrading for space??? I own prime 1BR and studio weeks that sleep 4 to 5 people during Xmas week, President's week, Thanksgiving week and Easter week in the Caribbean. 

Using your logic someone who is retired who would be very comfortable for two in one of my units at any time of the year is not being civic minded because someone with children who have school vacation would be more deserving during this time period??

I am depositing a prime week and that is why I have seen larger units with my studio or 1BR and I am taking it every time for all of the reason's previously mentioned in my prior post or just because I want it and I can get it.


----------



## vckempson (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I quite understand that having extra space to store suitcases, or having an extra bathroom, or whatever else helps one to be more relaxed because it is one less stress. Not debating that. *If you're suggesting that someone would elect not to travel and/or not enjoy their vacation because they were confined to 1br, I reject that assertion*.
> .



That's exactly what I'm saying.  Who the heck are you to say what's enjoyable or livable for me.  You are way off base and don't get to decide what's acceptible or not for others.  Most of us now find hotel rooms uncomfortable after having TS's, though in truth there is nothing wrong with them.  Our current luxuries soon become necessities.  Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Our daughter lives in Arlington VA.  When we go to visit we stay at the Wyndham at Alexandria.  They have 1 bdrms (612 sq ft) and 1 bdrm deluxe (850 sq ft).  I've stayed in both.  I did not enjoy my stay in the smaller unit.  It felt cramped and somewhat claustrophobic to me.  I will not return if the smaller unit is all that is available.  *I categorically reject the smaller unit, and will not return to one!*  And as a result of that experience, we booked a 2 bdrm for our San Anonio trip so that we'll have more elbow room.   Yes, I admit it, I'm a "self serving consumerist",  lacking in that "certain nobility to self restraint".  




> The only "remedy" to human nature is through regulation or market mechanisms. Regulation, e.g., prohibition of renting exchanges; Market mechanisms, e.g., charging an extra exchange fee to upgrade a previously confirmed exchange. A scarcity restriction or premium would be one more mechanism that exchange companies to employ that might improve overall public utility (and perhaps their bottom lines if implemented correctly), at the expense of certain individuals' personal utility.



I know, I know.  We common citizens don't have the wherewithal to make proper, good decisions for the well being of humanity.  With a scarcity of resources, we need to let some higher authority figure it all out for us.  Karl Marx felt that way too.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2012)

(passed from the back row)

"Hey Vicki, it's just me and Don at our 3BR next week.  Are your suitcases up for a week away? -Susan
PS Black-market gasmasks at Fifth and A this afternoon at 4 - be there or be square."


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 8, 2012)

vckempson said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying.  Who the heck are you to say what's enjoyable or livable for me.  You are way off base and don't get to decide what's acceptible or not for others.  ....   We common citizens don't have the wherewithal to make proper, good decisions for the well being of humanity.  With a scarcity of resources, we need to let some higher authority figure it all out for us.  *Karl Marx felt that way too*.



+1 from me on your comments, Cullen! 

Karl Marx's governing style certainly didn't translate to the masses very well did it? When did that tumble into rubble, 1989?


As for life being all fair and equal, does that play out in your job, too? Afterall, your bosses then should pay you a fixed amount needed to cover your dependants basic needs (as they see fit) based on the number of dependants verses (instead of) YOUR JOB performance, skill, education, knowledge, passion, likes, etc.


----------



## dwojo (Jan 8, 2012)

If we do not know the resort we are exchanging to my wife and I get at least a 2 bedroom. We learned from a few exchanges into 1 bedrooms that should have been classified as studio or hotel room not 1 bedroom.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> I put studios and 1BRs in the same camp. I agree, this is timesharing, and there should be some sort of "entitlement" to a 1br if one so desires.  But there should be an entitlement to a 2br also...for a premium



I paid my premium for 2- and 3-BR units in the purchase price, darn tootin' I'm entitled to them for home usage OR in a like-for-like exchange!  And you're (conveniently?) forgetting that in some Point systems, you do pay a premium for the extra bedrooms you choose in an exchange.


----------



## donnaval (Jan 8, 2012)

> I put studios and 1BRs in the same camp. I agree, this is timesharing, and there should be some sort of "entitlement" to a 1br if one so desires.



Whew, so then according to the arbiter of ethical timesharing, we're not socialyl irresponsible jerks if we use a 1-br instead of a studio, even though there's a family of four out there who can't get into the resort - we're only ignorant space hogs if we go above what beefnot feels we're entitled to use.  And if a 2-br is all that is available, I guess we should forget about it - no vacation for us!  There MIGHT be a bigger family who wants it.

This whole premise just makes me :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: 

Where's my protest sign?  I'm gonna OCCUPY 2-br units!


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 8, 2012)

Based on Beefnot's theory of ethical consumer choices:

If I'm at Walmart and there is only one jumbo pack of TP left, I should buy a 4 pack and leave the jumbo pack for the family with 4 kids pushing the cart behind me. 

If I'm being seated in a restaurant and I'm offered the table for 2, or a larger booth, I should take the table for 2.

If I'm picking up my rental car and I can get a free upgrade to a mid-size, I should take the economy car anyway.

Right?


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

vckempson said:


> Who the heck are you to say what's enjoyable or livable for me.  *I categorically reject the smaller unit, and will not return to one!*



I cannot tell you what is enjoyable, but I will call BS on any assertion that a 1br is _not_ enjoyable. The size of the 1br Is a more believable argument.




vckempson said:


> I know, I know.  We common citizens don't have the wherewithal to make proper, good decisions for the well being of humanity.  With a scarcity of resources, we need to let some higher authority figure it all out for us.  Karl Marx felt that way too.



Using extreme hyperbole to make a point, just like a Hitler reference, is a bit silly.  Even in a capitalistic country like the U.S., there are plenty of laws and business practices that exist to serve the public good, and few would attack them as socialism. From a legislative perspective, limiting the powers of monopolies (including price gouging), no ability to opt out from subsidizing public school systems, police and fire services.  Business practices include group health insurance (actually probably regulatory too), scarcity rationing, queuing systems for waiting in line or on the phone, among many other examples.


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Based on Beefnot's theory of ethical consumer choices:
> 
> If I'm at Walmart and there is only one jumbo pack of TP left, I should buy a 4 pack and leave the jumbo pack for the family with 4 kids pushing the cart behind me.
> 
> ...



During times of scarcity, yes.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> During times of scarcity, yes.



There is no scarcity of timeshare units. Nor is timesharing a necesscity of life or for societies common good (like schools, police, medical care).

*You are just unhappy that you can't find a 2bdr unit for your family during school vacations. *

Buy your Marriott in the correct season and Home Resort, get up at the crack of dawn, and play the telephone dialing game like all the rest of the owners who want or need that week.

I personally use 2 cell phones and the house line doing the "redial" dance.


----------



## SueDonJ (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot, what exchange DIDN'T you manage to get to fit your six people, while another TUGger reported getting the exact 2BR interval that you wanted?!  That's the only reason I can think of that would send you off on this (IMO ridiculous) tirade about responsible timeshare owners/exchangers and how they should only take the minimum size unit that's necessary for the size of their party.

Here's a different way of thinking that might make you feel better about us gluttonous timeshare pigs taking too many bedrooms:  my 3BR units sleep 12.  When it's only Don and me who use them, we're practicing population control by freeing up lounge chairs at the pool NOT being used by the 10 guests who, according to you, should be sleeping in our beds.  (Although as indulgent as it sounds, if the conditions at the pool are absolutely perfect - 83F, winds SE at 7mph, 42% humidity - then one of my suitcases likes to grab a pool lounger.)


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

donnaval said:


> Whew, so then according to the arbiter of ethical timesharing, we're not socialyl irresponsible jerks if we use a 1-br instead of a studio, even though there's a family of four out there who can't get into the resort - we're only ignorant space hogs if we go above what beefnot feels we're entitled to use.:



Decent point on the surface. However, I am choosing not to debate that point, as a separate sleeping area vs. not is more contentious, complex, and/or nuanced argument than what I raised already is. So while you raise a counterpoint intended to collapse the premise of my original post, I had intentionally set that aside.  If that point is the lynchpin upon which you discount the entire premise, then carry on, nothing more to see here.


----------



## vckempson (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Even in a capitalistic country like the U.S., there are plenty of laws and business practices that exist to serve the public good, and few would attack them as socialism.


Au Contraire.  Many of our regulations cross the line into socialisn and more than just a few believe that.    



> I cannot tell you what is enjoyable,


Well you sure did, repeatedly.  Here is what you said.



> If you're suggesting that someone would elect not to travel and/or not enjoy their vacation because they were confined to 1br, I reject that assertion.





> but I will call BS on any assertion that a 1br is _not_ enjoyable.



And then I see this admission from you.  





> The size of the 1br Is a more believable argument.


We don't usually have a choice of different size 1 bdrm units, though.  The added space usually comes by getting a 2 bdrm unit.  I know it's easy to miss what 43 people said, but the general message was that we want the additional space, better appointments/supplies and the opportunity to have guests if possible, that all go with a 2 bdrm unit.


----------



## ampaholic (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> Decent point on the surface. However, I am choosing not to debate that point, as a separate sleeping area vs. not is more contentious, complex, and/or nuanced argument than what I raised already is. So while you raise a counterpoint intended to collapse the premise of my original post, I had intentionally set that aside.  If that point is the lynchpin upon which you discount the entire premise, then carry on, nothing more to see here.



OK - I'll award 2 points for the use of big words to insult an opposition view


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 8, 2012)

vacationhopeful said:


> You are just unhappy that you can't find a 2bdr unit for your family during school vacations.



Beefnot - I think you have been caught beefing...   

Sorry, but no, I am not going to leave the jumbo pkg. of TP for you, the restaurant booth, the mid-size car....... or the 2 bdm. timeshare.  

And I sure as HECK am not going to pay more fees to the exchange companies!!!!!!!

That is the most offensive part of the whole thread!


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Beefnot, what exchange DIDN'T you manage to get to fit your six people, while another TUGger reported getting the exact 2BR interval that you wanted?!



If you read my OP, you will know that I _did_ receive the exchange I wanted via ongoing request.  This "tirade" as you put it, was spawned by my experience during that process.  I had no evidence that the scenario I described was real or imagined, but it was a instead philosophical ponderence as to whether we do what is "right" (yes, subjective) vs. what is legal, and why.  It became evident from the responses that there is some probability that some families may need to make some suboptimal plans or play the waiting game to get the vacation during their desired period due to the vacation preferences of others.  As I'd admitted, my greater angels may not come out if faced with the same decision.  If given the opportunity to vacation how I want, I may well not think about my fellow [wo]man.

And that got down to what I was driving at about changing of business practices to effectuate public good (and increased profitability) at the same time.  I am indeed a capitalist, but I am also intellectually curious and conscious about human nature.


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

DeniseM said:


> Beefnot - I think you have been caught beefing...
> 
> And I sure as HECK am not going to pay more fees to the exchange companies!!!!!!!
> 
> That is the most offensive part of the whole thread!



No beef here, I got my 2BR and am absolutely ecstatic.  Can't wait to take the fam on our first ever timeshare vacation and first ever in a 2BR suite.  Wow.

You wouldn't have to pay more fees to exchange companies if I had my way.  That would be your choice!    Just like I hate, loathe, folks who cut in front of lines.  But I won't begrudge the business practice of allowing legalized linejumping that happens at amusement parks for an extra premium.  If someone really wants to not wait and are willing to pay more for that privilege, well it sucks for me, but oh well.  This is America.


----------



## ampaholic (Jan 8, 2012)

donnaval said:


> Whew, so then according to the arbiter of ethical timesharing, we're not socialyl irresponsible jerks if we use a 1-br instead of a studio, even though there's a family of four out there who can't get into the resort - we're only ignorant space hogs if we go above what beefnot feels we're entitled to use.  And if a 2-br is all that is available, I guess we should forget about it - no vacation for us!  There MIGHT be a bigger family who wants it.
> 
> This whole premise just makes me :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
> 
> Where's my protest sign?  I'm gonna OCCUPY 2-br units!



Naa, Naa, Naaaaa

The ethical point beefnot misses entirely is this: The larger the room you reserve and the more of them the more work you provide to the cleaning crew when you leave. Thus "over-rooming" is job security for the staff


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 8, 2012)

Beefnot said:


> And that got down to what I was driving at about changing of business practices to effectuate public good (and increased profitability) at the same time.  I am indeed a capitalist, but I am also intellectually curious and conscious about human nature.



Don't worry about my human nature. Corporate greed will never help the public good by increasing exchange fees on the larger units. There may be a few owners who have limits on the cost of their vacationing and not pay the extra 2bdr unit fee. And most likely if the 2 bdr is not booked at the 10 month out mark (as dictated via a class action suit against RCI), RCI will be happy to rent it for 100% CASH PROFIT to the general public without regard to any timeshare owners desire for that week or unit size.

Let's see which is more: Exchange fee of $209 or $1000 weekly rental? 

Which do you think RCI will be happier with? You still won't have the unit for your family unless you pay the asking rent from RCI.* RCI's cost basis is the same for either: $ZERO!* The owner who deposited the week only got a promise of a MAYBE future vacation, but had to pay RCI for a membership fee and their resort's maintenance fee on their week.


----------



## presley (Jan 8, 2012)

This thread may be on overkill, but since I've seen several specific exchange companies mentioned, I thought I'd share mine.  

My primary exchange company called me with a match.  It was a 2 bedroom.  I said I needed to sleep 3.  I took it.  I suppose I could have said, "No, I will wait for a one bedroom to come open," but, I'll never say that when they call me with a match.  In this case, I invited another family to join us.

Another time I asked for a studio somewhere, they found me a one bedroom while I was still on the phone and I took it.  My preference is to take first offer.  Then, I have one less thing hanging over my head. 

Given an actual choice at the time of finding a match for me, I'd more likely take the larger in hopes that my big kids could join me for a night or two.  If I am sure it is just me and my husband, I'd go with smaller if it were cheaper for me.


----------



## ronparise (Jan 8, 2012)

There's a similar thread on another forum. It asks the question about someone who reserves a unit way in advance of check in, with the intention of renting it for a profit. The thinking there is that the unit will be tied up with the hope of renting it, thereby depriving another owner of that reservation.... What really seemed to get the op upset was that many of these units didnt get rented and they came back available, but now too close to check in to do the op any good 

The comments to that post were similar to the ones here......everything from "how inconsiderate " to finders keepers losers weepers" to "its my time Ill do with it what I want"


----------



## ampaholic (Jan 8, 2012)

ronparise said:


> -snip-
> The comments to that post were similar to the ones here......everything from "how inconsiderate " to finders keepers losers weepers" to "its my time Ill do with it what I want"



Ah well, If humans didn't have differing opinions we wouldn't have ...

fist fights
domestic disturbences
bar fights
riots
"police actions"
terrorist attacks 
wars 
Nuclear Weapons - or at least the proliferation of them.

C'est la vie


----------



## AwayWeGo (Jan 8, 2012)

*Win, Place, Show.*




ampaholic said:


> Ah well, If humans didn't have differing opinions we wouldn't have ...


Horse races. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## donnaval (Jan 8, 2012)

> So while you raise a counterpoint intended to collapse the premise of my original post,



Please do not read more into my post than intended.  I have no interest in collapsing the premise of your original post.  It is silly enough to fall on its own without any help from me!


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> The ethical point beefnot misses entirely is this: The larger the room you reserve and the more of them the more work you provide to the cleaning crew when you leave. Thus "over-rooming" is job security for the staff



That was funny.


----------



## Beefnot (Jan 8, 2012)

donnaval said:


> Please do not read more into my post than intended.  I have no interest in collapsing the premise of your original post.  It is silly enough to fall on its own without any help from me!



You are probably incredulous at the nerve of these paternalistic, Marxist exchange companies already limiting what we can do (i.e. renting) with what we have legitimately secured.


----------



## ampaholic (Jan 8, 2012)

ampaholic said:


> Naa, Naa, Naaaaa
> 
> The ethical point beefnot misses entirely is this: The larger the room you reserve and the more of them the more work you provide to the cleaning crew when you leave. Thus "over-rooming" is job security for the staff





Beefnot said:


> That was funny.



The "REAL" funny part is I have a BIL who actually used that argument (jobs for the Germans) to try to convince me it was totally ethical for him to buy a Mercedes Benz instead of keeping his perfectly good Cadillac.

I told him if he liked the MB more - that was the only reason he should use.

JMHO


----------



## donnaval (Jan 8, 2012)

> You are probably incredulous at the nerve of these paternalistic, Marxist exchange companies already limiting what we can do (i.e. renting) with what we have legitimately secured.



There you go again.  No need to bother reading this thread any more.


----------



## chriskre (Jan 8, 2012)

Well this certainly has been an entertaining thread Beefnot.   Funny cause your user name sure sounds like you've definetly got a beef.   

As for all us TS pigs, as you can see we're not easily persuaded to go on a TS diet just cause some skinny TS owner hasn't figured out how to game the system for himself.   

Don't worry if you hang out with us TS gluttons long enough, you'll be feasting at the TS Captains table too and posting your pictures of your gluttonous vacations on facebook like the rest of us.


----------



## vacationhopeful (Jan 8, 2012)

This is a timesharing website -- not the "Occupy Timeshare" website of social justice in timesharing. 

Whining might have work with your parents and your life partner about how unhappy you are. Us timeshare addicts tend to be a rather happy lot who work really hard to enjoy life and make vacationing a pleasant experience for ourselves and our families.

Go picket somewheres where they might be impressed with your big and fancy words. There are many here who can match your vocabulary - we just choose to not stoop to your level of insecurity.


----------



## DeniseM (Jan 8, 2012)

I think we are done here...


----------

