# Sheraton FLEX Lack of Disclosure is a Problem



## DTD1990 (Jul 27, 2015)

I own two EOY weeks at WLR Plat + and have been really happy with my purchase even at developer prices.  The purchase has enabled us to take some great vacations to Cancun, Beaver Creek, Steamboat, NY and New Orleans using SOs and SPG award points.

I would like to purchase another week in the SVN system, but the Sheraton FLEX offering gives me pause.  Specifically, I subscribe to the "buy what you would use" timeshare approach.  This is why we bought WLR.  We like the Cancun beaches and area and it is a short flight from where we live.  I would like to buy a plat+ week at the Sheraton Steamboat when the hotel property is converted to timeshares.  My issue is that, if these units are put in to the FLEX system how will that effect the ability to get a spring break ski week?  

Under the old system, you have a high % chance of getting the week you wanted 12-months out for the season you purchased at your home resort.  The FLEX system muddies the waters for this.  The prospect of paying $50K + to get a 2 bedroom l/o in the FLEX with no certainty of getting a ski week for Steamboat is a problem.  I think this would suppress interest.  SVN needs more disclosure for potential customers to better understand the various ownership pools and number of units available connected with the FLEX program.


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## okwiater (Jul 27, 2015)

The Sheraton Flex offering definitely increases demand for prime weeks, because you are no longer competing solely with same-resort, same-season Owners. Instead, you're competing with Owners from multiple resorts who collectively own every season.

In my experience (and I do own 2 Flex contracts), the problem seems to be amplified for the existing Flex resorts because there are a limited number of prime weeks that have been acquired for the program. For instance, July 4 weeks at SBP (Myrtle Beach) in the Flex program were fully booked within days, yet there is still plenty of inventory for deeded SBP Plat season owners.

I think this will be _somewhat _less problematic for new resorts (e.g. Steamboat), assuming all inventory is added in its entirety to the Flex program instead of via the piecemeal approach Starwood used to build out the Flex program for pre-existing resorts. That's not to say it won't still be somewhat more difficult to reserve than it was with resort- and season-specific deeds, but my guess is that it will likely be the _only_ practical way to get into the new resorts.

All that said, the above implication that new Sheraton resorts will be added to the existing Flex program is purely speculation on my part. However, I think it makes the most sense for the following reasons:


The contractual language in the Flex program documents leaves a deliberate opening for an increased number of included resorts, suggesting that it was designed from the beginning to be able to incorporate additional resorts.
Adding new desirable resorts to the Flex program allows Starwood to increase the cost of the Flex program as well as sell it more times than they have units at the new resorts, because the new flashy resorts will be partially backed by a pool of deeds for older less desirable resorts.
It will be very difficult to sell the current Flex program alongside a separate program that incorporates new and much more desirable resorts.
The glossy promotional materials at the Sheraton Flex presentation show a roadmap of timeshare evolution -- from fixed weeks, to floating weeks, to single-resort points systems (WSJ-CV), to multi-resort points systems (Flex). It seems pretty clear that this new model is the one they're committing to. Although I don't entirely rule out the creation of an additional points program alongside Sheraton Flex, I don't think it's likely that they will continue to create lots of additional single-resort points programs like WSJ-CV.


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## DTD1990 (Jul 27, 2015)

okwiater,

Are there seasons within the FLEX system?  For example, will there be a different amount of SO points needed to book a ski week at Steamboat - assuming it is placed into FLEX?  

Also - you cannot bank and borrow with FLEX - correct.  I guess that will keep down some of the competition for prime units in a prime season.


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## okwiater (Jul 27, 2015)

DTD1990 said:


> Are there seasons within the FLEX system?  For example, will there be a different amount of SO points needed to book a ski week at Steamboat - assuming it is placed into FLEX?



Yes, resorts continue to have seasons but ownerships no longer do. You  simply buy the number of "HomeOptions" you want and then use them to  reserve the stays you want.



DTD1990 said:


> Also - you cannot bank and borrow with FLEX - correct.  I guess that will keep down some of the competition for prime units in a prime season.



Correct -- you can only bank and borrow StarOptions. HomeOptions have equivalent value to StarOptions, and in fact turn into StarOptions automatically when you use them to book an SVN reservation. But you cannot use StarOptions to make a HomeOptions reservation.

Also, because there is no banking or borrowing of HomeOptions, if you are booking an "expensive" HomeOptions reservation (e.g. a hypothetical future 3-bedroom in Steamboat), then you will only be competing with other owners of enough HomeOptions to make that same reservation. Keep in mind though, that you can book as few or as many days as you like. So even if you may want to book a full week, owners with fewer options may be satisfied with booking a shorter stay. There will still be some competition.


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## gtm2011 (Jul 27, 2015)

Does anyone know if the Sheraton Flex options are mandatory or voluntary on the resale market?  I am going to assume voluntary, but I haven't heard it discussed yet.


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## okwiater (Jul 27, 2015)

gtm2011 said:


> Does anyone know if the Sheraton Flex options are mandatory or voluntary on the resale market?  I am going to assume voluntary, but I haven't heard it discussed yet.



Sheraton Flex is a voluntary ownership, so StarOptions and SVN membership do not transfer. However, HomeOptions *DO* transfer on resale. HomeOptions represent your contractual usage rights.


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## Wanttobe5StarElite (Jul 27, 2015)

okiwater, what was your rationale of getting the new Sheraton Flex (x2)?

I am assuming this was bought through SVO and not on resale.

In MSC, do HomeOptions show differently than SOptions?


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## okwiater (Jul 27, 2015)

Wanttobe5StarElite said:


> okiwater, what was your rationale of getting the new Sheraton Flex (x2)?
> 
> I am assuming this was bought through SVO and not on resale.
> 
> In MSC, do HomeOptions show differently than SOptions?



MSC does show the HomeOptions and StarOptions values, in addition to the Starpoints values.

My rationale for purchase was to obtain 5*. I used the "equity" from a resale to trade "up" to Sheraton Flex. I do not see a lot of value in it today, but I am pretty convinced that new resorts will be added to the program which will make it a much more attractive and useful product in the future. I already own enough deeded weeks for the places I like to go, so I figured while obtaining 5* I would hedge a bit by purchasing the new product.


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## gtm2011 (Jul 27, 2015)

okwiater said:


> Sheraton Flex is a voluntary ownership, so StarOptions and SVN membership do not transfer. However, HomeOptions *DO* transfer on resale. HomeOptions represent your contractual usage rights.



Thanks, that is what I figured.  I just don't like the two availability buckets at the existing resorts, since you will never have a clear understanding of what is available for SBP direct owners and FLEX SBP home resort bookings for the really tuff to book weeks.  It shouldn't be an issue at the new hotel/timeshare conversions, since they should only be sold as FLEX.


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## Wanttobe5StarElite (Jul 27, 2015)

okwiater said:


> MSC does show the HomeOptions and StarOptions values, in addition to the Starpoints values.
> 
> My rationale for purchase was to obtain 5*. I used the "equity" from a resale to trade "up" to Sheraton Flex. I do not see a lot of value in it today, but I am pretty convinced that new resorts will be added to the program which will make it a much more attractive and useful product in the future. I already own enough deeded weeks for the places I like to go, so I figured while obtaining 5* I would hedge a bit by purchasing the new product.



That makes sense since it is a developer purchase.  Just wanted to make sure.

With regard to HomeOptions - it cannot be banked?
Can it be changed to SOptions?
Just want to clarify as it doesn't make much sense yet.
Just trying to get a handle on resales and SOptions - and now there is another variable (HomeOptions) to consider......


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## alexadeparis (Jul 27, 2015)

My guess would be the exact opposite: that they would be mandatory on the resale market because you are NOT buying a deeded underlying week, you are buying a set number of "points".


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## DTD1990 (Jul 27, 2015)

Okwiater,

With Homeoptions (FLEX) can you book less than a full week at 12 months out?


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 27, 2015)

People could be making incorrect assumptions that could lead to paying too much (or loss of value)
WSJ-CV has HomeResort Options that are same as StarOptions - they do not transfer - MEANING resale CV will only allow for staying at CV (just like WSJ-BV) - since it is not SVN Mandatory.

I suggest to be 100% certain (not depend on Salesperson...) that if you sell Flex that the buyer will have access to all Flex availability. And what happens outside the Flex system following resale? will it be available via SVN?
I doubt it...

be careful...


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## okwiater (Jul 27, 2015)

DTD1990 said:


> With Homeoptions (FLEX) can you book less than a full week at 12 months out?



Yes, you can.


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## Sicnarf (Jul 27, 2015)

I agree with David.  With WSJ-CV, you will not get SOs.  You'll retain the HRO's which you can use to book 9-12 months on your HR period and 0-8 months outside the HR period but only in WSJ-CV. FlexOptions should work the same way for resorts that are part of that Flex system.


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## okwiater (Jul 27, 2015)

Sicnarf said:


> I agree with David.  With WSJ-CV, you will not get SOs.  You'll retain the HRO's which you can use to book 9-12 months on your HR period and 0-8 months outside the HR period but only in WSJ-CV. FlexOptions should work the same way for resorts that are part of that Flex system.



It's not a matter of who you agree with. It's how the contract is written. I already explained this in post #6 of this thread.


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## pacman777 (Jul 27, 2015)

okwiater said:


> It's not a matter of who you agree with. It's how the contract is written. I already explained this in post #6 of this thread.



Flex system resale may still be worth more than a voluntary resort resale since flex system gives you access to multiple resorts in the system instead of just one for a deeded season. It's too soon to tell but curious to see what resales on flex systems will go for.


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## okwiater (Jul 27, 2015)

pacman777 said:


> Flex system resale may still be worth more than a voluntary resort resale since flex system gives you access to multiple resorts in the system instead of just one for a deeded season. It's too soon to tell but curious to see what resales on flex systems will go for.



I don't think Flex will currently go for much on the resale market. MFs are too high and there are too few buyers who understand the product. However, if Flex becomes the primary way to access new SVO/Vistana resorts, then I could see its value increasing somewhat.


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 27, 2015)

could have just directly answered...
they will not go for much because it doesn't allow SVN entry upon resale - just like other V resorts.


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## okwiater (Jul 28, 2015)

DavidnRobin said:


> could have just directly answered...
> they will not go for much because it doesn't allow SVN entry upon resale - just like other V resorts.



Keep in mind that if additional resorts are added to Flex, the value may increase because it will act similar to a "mini-SVN" within the subset of Flex resorts.

Hypothetically, if the new resorts in Maui, Mexico, and Colorado were all sold as Flex properties, I would think the value would be significantly higher than your average voluntary resort ($0).


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## tschwa2 (Jul 28, 2015)

On the other hand if they start another Westin flex for the new resorts and keep this one with the leftover Sheraton's the value won't increase.


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## okwiater (Jul 28, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> On the other hand if they start another Westin flex for the new resorts and keep this one with the leftover Sheraton's the value won't increase.


True, but with almost 100% certainty the conversion of additional hotel units at the Sheraton Steamboat Springs won't turn it into a Westin. I suppose it's possible, but there is no precedent for such a move.

Also, think about what makes the most financial sense. If they combine new high-demand resorts into a trust with plenty of older and cheaper deeds, they can sell access to the new resorts many more times than there are available intervals.


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## taterhed (Jul 28, 2015)

I was actually looking at picking up a mandatory SVO for making 'buffer' reservations in Hawaii to extend our vaca time on the islands.  But, with all the uncertainty and mad-ROFR action; I decided to wait and see where this one goes.  Too much change I fear.

 I really feel bad for the Voluntary resort owners.  Some nice resorts, but a dead end unless you find out a good way to 'use what you got...'  You'd think there would be some kind of exit strategy to all this.  IMHO

 I think the title of the OP's post is spot-on.


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## DTD1990 (Jul 28, 2015)

okwiater said:


> Also, think about what makes the most financial sense. If they combine new high-demand resorts into a trust with plenty of older and cheaper deeds, they can sell access to the new resorts many more times than there are available intervals.



That is exactly my problem with FLEX.  No one knows how many owners are competing for the same units.  I agree that for the unsophisticated timeshare buyer mixing a nice resort with lesser resorts may bring in some sales, but that scheme can cut both ways.  For example, I am interested in Steamboat only and may sit on the sidelines with my $$ because of the uncertainty in use rights with FLEX.  I am sure I am not the only one with these concerns.


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## lizap (Jul 28, 2015)

Again worth repeating:  a good reason to buy where you want to vacation most of the time.  TS systems, rules can be changed at any time..




taterhed said:


> I was actually looking at picking up a mandatory SVO for making 'buffer' reservations in Hawaii to extend our vaca time on the islands.  But, with all the uncertainty and mad-ROFR action; I decided to wait and see where this one goes.  Too much change I fear.
> 
> I really feel bad for the Voluntary resort owners.  Some nice resorts, but a dead end unless you find out a good way to 'use what you got...'  You'd think there would be some kind of exit strategy to all this.  IMHO
> 
> I think the title of the OP's post is spot-on.


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## okwiater (Jul 28, 2015)

DTD1990 said:


> That is exactly my problem with FLEX.  No one knows how many owners are competing for the same units.  I agree that for the unsophisticated timeshare buyer mixing a nice resort with lesser resorts may bring in some sales, but that scheme can cut both ways.  For example, I am interested in Steamboat only and may sit on the sidelines with my $$ because of the uncertainty in use rights with FLEX.  I am sure I am not the only one with these concerns.



I agree with you, but the industry seems to have decided that buyers like you are the minority, not the majority. Marriott went all-in on the points system and now Starwood is following suit. If you only want Steamboat I would just buy a deeded resale.


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## lizap (Jul 28, 2015)

The problem with Starwood in this situation is the lack of transparency with what their future plans are.  I suspect they may not have a clear idea of what those plans are given they are trying to sell the TS division.  Even if they are able to, all that can be changed with the new owners.





okwiater said:


> I agree with you, but the industry seems to have decided that buyers like you are the minority, not the majority. Marriott went all-in on the points system and now Starwood is following suit. If you only want Steamboat I would just buy a deeded resale.


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## okwiater (Jul 28, 2015)

lizap said:


> The problem with Starwood in this situation is the lack of transparency with what their future plans are.  I suspect they may not have a clear idea of what those plans are given they are trying to sell the TS division.  Even if they are able to, all that can be changed with the new owners.



I think they've been pretty transparent. They have announced plans for new resorts, they have included language in their Flex contracts that allows for the addition of new resorts, and the sales organization has developed collateral which describes the evolution of their timeshare business -- from fixed weeks, to float weeks, to single-resort points programs (WSJ-CV), to multi-resort points programs (Flex).

Of course they're not going to specifically tell you which resorts they plan to add to which programs, because it affects their pricing strategy with regard to the perceived value of their offerings. But IMO they've been about as transparent as they can be. Whether you want to believe the "timeshare salesman" in this case is your decision.

BTW, the timeshare division is not up for sale. It is being spun off into a separate company, but it is not up for sale. Only the Starwood hotel company is rumored to be looking for potential M&A opportunities.


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## lizap (Jul 28, 2015)

I don't think mandatory SVO owners will ever be any worse off than Marriott owners.  If anything, what they'll do is charge us a fee, a la Marriott, to buy into the new system. However, I hope this doesn't happen- it would really dilute the prices of some resorts (e.g. Hawaii and WSJ), and make it more difficult for other mandatory owners to access high demand resorts.




taterhed said:


> I was actually looking at picking up a mandatory SVO for making 'buffer' reservations in Hawaii to extend our vaca time on the islands.  But, with all the uncertainty and mad-ROFR action; I decided to wait and see where this one goes.  Too much change I fear.
> 
> I really feel bad for the Voluntary resort owners.  Some nice resorts, but a dead end unless you find out a good way to 'use what you got...'  You'd think there would be some kind of exit strategy to all this.  IMHO
> 
> I think the title of the OP's post is spot-on.


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## lizap (Jul 28, 2015)

I hope you're right since this would the best case scenario for mandatory owners.  




okwiater said:


> I think they've been pretty transparent. They have announced plans for new resorts, they have included language in their Flex contracts that allows for the addition of new resorts, and the sales organization has developed collateral which describes the evolution of their timeshare business -- from fixed weeks, to float weeks, to single-resort points programs (WSJ-CV), to multi-resort points programs (Flex).
> 
> Of course they're not going to specifically tell you which resorts they plan to add to which programs, because it affects their pricing strategy with regard to the perceived value of their offerings. But IMO they've been about as transparent as they can be. Whether you want to believe the "timeshare salesman" in this case is your decision.
> 
> BTW, the timeshare division is not up for sale. It is being spun off into a separate company, but it is not up for sale. Only the Starwood hotel company is rumored to be looking for potential M&A opportunities.


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## okwiater (Jul 28, 2015)

lizap said:


> I hope you're right since this would the best case scenario for mandatory owners.



Not really. Over time, it will really devalue SVN and thus mandatory resorts if lots of new inventory is acquired or developed for the Flex program. Essentially this would short-circuit the 8-month window for SVN reservations by allowing a large pool of owners to reserve at any resort starting at 12 months.


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## lizap (Jul 28, 2015)

Really depends on whether the intention is to acquire and sell flex inventory at places like Hawaii, WKV, WSJ (other than CV) etc...  Have I missed an announcement that they are planning to acquire flex inventory at these resorts?  If not, this all speculation,  Again, rules and systems can be changed at any time..




okwiater said:


> Not really. Over time, it will really devalue SVN and thus mandatory resorts if lots of new inventory is acquired or developed for the Flex program. Essentially this would short-circuit the 8-month window for SVN reservations by allowing a large pool of owners to reserve at any resort starting at 12 months.


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## taterhed (Jul 28, 2015)

lizap said:


> I don't think mandatory SVO owners will ever be any worse off than Marriott owners. If anything, what they'll do is charge us a fee, a la Marriott, to buy into the new system. However, I hope this doesn't happen- it would really dilute the prices of some resorts (e.g. Hawaii and WSJ), and make it more difficult for other mandatory owners to access high demand resorts.



Well, you could be right.

If this was 2009 and I had ESP.... I'd buy some Marriotts (for points enrollment) as fast as I could. The pre-2010 enrolled weeks is a great deal.
For the sake of SVO, I hope a mutually beneficial solution is achieved. Maybe the writing on the wall will predict that evolution. Kinda murky right now though.
I take your point about SVO requals and flex-groups. Also the 'own where you stay' advice. It's sound.


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## DTD1990 (Jul 28, 2015)

okwiater said:


> IIf you only want Steamboat I would just buy a deeded resale.



I wish it was that easy - the only resale I have found for a plat+ ski week at the Sheraton Steamboat is an annual 3-bedroom for $90K.  That's a little too much for what I need for my family.


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## Marathoner (Jul 28, 2015)

There is a platinum plus annual 3BR week on SMTN for 62k.


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## DTD1990 (Jul 28, 2015)

Marathoner said:


> There is a platinum plus annual 3BR week on SMTN for 62k.



Yes - but that appears to be a fixed week 7.  I need a floating plat+ b/c spring break week will sometimes change.  Generally in Texas it is week 11, but not always. 

The $90K 3-bedroom, I saw awhile ago was a floating plat +.


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## Ken555 (Jul 28, 2015)

taterhed said:


> I really feel bad for the Voluntary resort owners.  Some nice resorts, but a dead end unless you find out a good way to 'use what you got...'  You'd think there would be some kind of exit strategy to all this.  IMHO



I think you mean that you feel bad for those who purchase voluntary resorts direct from Starwood. I certainly don't mind my resale SDO units at all, and they are great traders. But then, that's a different proposition than staying within the Starwood family of resorts...I've found the combination of mandatory and voluntary work out well for me.





Sent from my iPad


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## okwiater (Jul 28, 2015)

lizap said:


> Really depends on whether the intention is to acquire and sell flex inventory at places like Hawaii, WKV, WSJ (other than CV) etc...  Have I missed an announcement that they are planning to acquire flex inventory at these resorts?  If not, this all speculation,  Again, rules and systems can be changed at any time..



I agree, and caveated my statements that they are speculative. In this case, I said "*IF* lots of new inventory is acquired or developed for the Flex program."

No announcements have been made regarding their specific intentions for Sheraton Flex. Everything is speculative.


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## taterhed (Jul 28, 2015)

Ken555 said:


> I think you mean that you feel bad for those who purchase voluntary resorts direct from Starwood. I certainly don't mind my resale SDO units at all, and they are great traders. But then, that's a different proposition than staying within the Starwood family of resorts...I've found the combination of mandatory and voluntary work out well for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, you're right and I meant developer purchases.   Those that  buy resale these days should have full knowledge and caveat emptor.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## GregT (Jul 29, 2015)

taterhed said:


> If this was 2009 and I had ESP.... I'd buy some Marriotts (for points enrollment) as fast as I could. The pre-2010 enrolled weeks is a great deal.



This is an interesting comment (and I agree with it).  I've now been in two systems where major changes occurred suddenly (Worldmark in November 2006 and Marriott in June 2010).  Both times, the existing owners were grandfathered in and received rights and preferences that future owners had to pay big dollar$ for.   It's a different question of how much value those rights and preferences really have, but the reality is that existing owners were allowed in.

It is conceivable that whatever changes are coming to Starwood will impact future resale owners differently than current resale owners.  I will be curious to see what happens here, and hope that Starwood TUGgers come out okay in the transition.

Best,

Greg


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## pacman777 (Jul 29, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Well, you could be right.
> 
> If this was 2009 and I had ESP.... I'd buy some Marriotts (for points enrollment) as fast as I could. The pre-2010 enrolled weeks is a great deal.
> For the sake of SVO, I hope a mutually beneficial solution is achieved. Maybe the writing on the wall will predict that evolution. Kinda murky right now though.
> I take your point about SVO requals and flex-groups. Also the 'own where you stay' advice. It's sound.



So if Starwood were to follow a similar approach that Marriott did in 2009, then your saying that potentially buying any voluntary resale resort on the cheap may prove to be beneficial if they allow any and all current owners to enroll their resorts in whatever flex points program they might roll out??  I'm not familiar with Marriott as I don't own any but have read some of the posts related to the DC points program.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 30, 2015)

pacman777 said:


> So if Starwood were to follow a similar approach that Marriott did in 2009, then your saying that potentially buying any voluntary resale resort on the cheap may prove to be beneficial if they allow any and all current owners to enroll their resorts in whatever flex points program they might roll out??  I'm not familiar with Marriott as I don't own any but have read some of the posts related to the DC points program.



Yes, in 2010 when Marriott introduced the Destination Club Points system in the US and Caribbean, they allowed direct and external resale Weeks purchased prior to the introduction date to be enrolled subject to an enrollment fee.  (Enrollment allows owners to use their enrolled Weeks as they always have - occupancy, rental, II and private exchanges, etc - and it allows the additional usage option of annually exchanging their enrolled Weeks to DC Points for use in the DC Exchange Company.)  The same thing happened when they announced in 2012 that the DC was being integrated with European Weeks.

They also announced on the introduction days that all Weeks purchased on the external market after those days would not be eligible for DC enrollment.  Currently only resales purchased direct through Marriott Resales Operations can be enrolled, if a direct purchase of DC Points is also made.  There is some speculation/hope that Marriott will re-visit the enrollment eligibility for external resales but to date they haven't done so.

I'm not sure of Starwood terms but if "voluntary" equates to "external resales," I agree with the Marriott owners here who say that this might be a good time to pick up high-demand Weeks on the cheap for future integration in the Flex program.


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## pacman777 (Jul 30, 2015)

Interesting but of course all of this is speculation on what Starwood (or Vistana) will actually do. How much was the enrollment fee for Marriotts DC? Was it based on location or unit size (eg 1 br vs 2 br)?


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## SueDonJ (Jul 30, 2015)

pacman777 said:


> Interesting but of course all of this is speculation on what Starwood (or Vistana) will actually do. How much was the enrollment fee for Marriotts DC? Was it based on location or unit size (eg 1 br vs 2 br)?



At the DC introduction it was $595 for a single direct-purchase Week, $695 for multiple direct-purchase Weeks, $1,495 for a single Week purchased on the external resale market, $1,995 for multiple Weeks including any purchased on the external resale market.  As of 6/14/12 the enrollment fee was increased to $2,395 for any/all eligible Weeks.  The enrollment fee is waived if eligible Weeks are enrolled at the time of a direct-purchase Points package.

I agree that you're dealing with speculation.  And considering that the Flex program has already been rolled out to some extent, if enrollment of existing Weeks hasn't already been offered then it may not be.  That would be a different animal altogether than Marriott's Points system integration with Weeks.


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## lizap (Jul 30, 2015)

My guess is that if Starwood was to do something like this, the cost for voluntary owners to join would be higher than that for mandatory owners (provided they were allowed to participate at all).  Again this is pure speculation, since at this point, there has been no movement in this direction. I would not go out and purchase a voluntary resort in hope of this happening...





SueDonJ said:


> Yes, in 2010 when Marriott introduced the Destination Club Points system in the US and Caribbean, they allowed direct and external resale Weeks purchased prior to the introduction date to be enrolled subject to an enrollment fee.  (Enrollment allows owners to use their enrolled Weeks as they always have - occupancy, rental, II and private exchanges, etc - and it allows the additional usage option of annually exchanging their enrolled Weeks to DC Points for use in the DC Exchange Company.)  The same thing happened when they announced in 2012 that the DC was being integrated with European Weeks.
> 
> They also announced on the introduction days that all Weeks purchased on the external market after those days would not be eligible for DC enrollment.  Currently only resales purchased direct through Marriott Resales Operations can be enrolled, if a direct purchase of DC Points is also made.  There is some speculation/hope that Marriott will re-visit the enrollment eligibility for external resales but to date they haven't done so.
> 
> I'm not sure of Starwood terms but if "voluntary" equates to "external resales," I agree with the Marriott owners here who say that this might be a good time to pick up high-demand Weeks on the cheap for future integration in the Flex program.


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## canesfan (Jul 31, 2015)

I seriously doubt there will be any rolling into the Flex plan of the existing deeds. They are actively trying to get current owners to buy into the Flex system. At our owner update we were pressured hard to get into the Flex mentality as a wonderful thing and of course, buy more StarOptions. We were also told as inventory became available it would be sold as Flex. New development? Inventory at existing TS? Unfortunately I didn't ask that question. Besides, you can only trust the salesperson so much


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## lizap (Jul 31, 2015)

I agree with you.  However, if what this salesman said and others have said is true, and that's a big 'if', it could make it harder for existing mandatory owners to exchange into other Starwood resorts.  I suspect there's alot of uncertainty (meaning they're not sure what they're going to do because 'they' are going to change with the spinoff) about these types of things in the SVO program right now.  We need to just wait to see how this unfolds (not that we have a choice).





canesfan said:


> I seriously doubt there will be any rolling into the Flex plan of the existing deeds. They are actively trying to get current owners to buy into the Flex system. At our owner update we were pressured hard to get into the Flex mentality as a wonderful thing and of course, buy more StarOptions. We were also told as inventory became available it would be sold as Flex. New development? Inventory at existing TS? Unfortunately I didn't ask that question. Besides, you can only trust the salesperson so much


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## taterhed (Jul 31, 2015)

pacman777 said:


> So if Starwood were to follow a similar approach that Marriott did in 2009, then your saying that potentially buying any voluntary resale resort on the cheap may prove to be beneficial if they allow any and all current owners to enroll their resorts in whatever flex points program they might roll out?? I'm not familiar with Marriott as I don't own any but have read some of the posts related to the DC points program.



What I said was:



> Originally Posted by *taterhed*
> 
> 
> _If this was 2009 and I had ESP.... I'd buy some Marriotts (for points enrollment) as fast as I could. The pre-2010 enrolled weeks is a great deal._


 Great thread on this subject/speculation here: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222690


So, just to be clear....

I did not mean to imply that anyone should go buy SVO properties--Mandatory or otherwise. I do not think there is a fabulous prize in every box...(er timeshare).

This is all barroom napkin talk anyway, but: I do not think Starwood will be graciously or cheaply offering their current owners a chance to buy into the 'flex' program anytime soon. In fact, I think they'll try to ROFR properties out of the SVO network/voluntary and into flex. Oh, I'm sure they'll offer to *allow* owners to join flex if they just buy/trade/spend $$$$$ money to become 'flex' owners, but it won't be cheap, easy or logical. Of course, my whole point is: hindsight is 20/20, who can predict these things? Not I. I'm betting they're chasing a model similar to DRI; groups of resorts and fees/membership levels to cross resort groups. I think they're going to try and lock-down Hawaii and get a pretty premium to use it. Who knows, those parking lot/dumpster view WKORV MV units may become very valuable...or they may be limited to 'SVO legacy' booking only--which could dry up to zero as the units are ROFR'd or deeded-back.

Not a bet I'd take right now.
One thing is clear: Starwood (er, _Vistana?_) is looking to turn lead-weeks into points-gold. Deed back for free....sell for $$$$. It's working for others.

JMHO


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