# Owner Update Long Beach WA



## geist1223 (Oct 17, 2017)

Went today. Very painless. In and out in about an hour. Let them know we were really not interested in more Developer Points. We were there mainly as a favor for Jan the Congeiere. Mainly talked about places we have been and places the Sales man has been. He has traveled a lot. Talked about time shares we own and that he owns. He was very interested in Royal Solaris. He owns WM. His parents own Disney. His brother owns WYN. So lots of trades among his family. Found out WYN no longer has regular employee discounts. But every couple years WYN will announce an employee special. But with a limited number of Points. So first come first served. Also found out WYN has bought back 3,000,000 WM Points from mega renters this year.


----------



## JohnPaul (Oct 17, 2017)

That's a lot of points to buy back.  Definitely WM?  Not Wyndham?


----------



## geist1223 (Oct 17, 2017)

WYN bought the WM Points. 3,000,000 Points is not a lot when you realize that WYN paid WM MF's on a little over 263,333,000 Points this year. From 2017 Yearly Report WYN paid WM $7,400,000 in MF's on Foreclosed Points and WYN paid WM $8,400,000 in MF's on unsold Points. At a little over 6 cents per Point is how I arrive at the little over 263,333,000. With the average WM Account currently being about 15,500 Points this gives WYN the voting power of about 16,989 Accounts.


----------



## ronparise (Oct 17, 2017)

ive been saying that Wyndham would be buying back Wyndham points and Worldmark credits for some time  but it’s been nothing but an educated guess. This post convinced me I’m right

Did you get any indication of what they paid?

I’ve also been saying that the way for Wyndham to put an end to commercial renting would be through negotiation, not regulation. It sounds like someone at Wyndham feels the same way


----------



## geist1223 (Oct 17, 2017)

Have no idea what WYN paid per WM Point. That would give me better bargaining power to argue a lower price. I had read the Annual Report and done my calculations before the Update - so I had a good idea how many WM Points WYN had in Inventory. I did offer to pick up 20K at a dollar per Point. They did not accept. But that is the same offer I make the National Sales Office when they call me about ever 6 months.

Ron maybe you can contact some of the Mega Renters you know and find out. But I bet they signed a strict nondisclosure agreement with some good penalties.


----------



## CO skier (Oct 17, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> WYN bought the WM Points. 3,000,000 Points is not a lot when you realize that WYN paid WM MF's on a little over 263,333,000 Points this year. From 2017 Yearly Report WYN paid WM in MF's on Foreclosed Points and WYN paid WM $8,400,000 in MF's on unsold Points. At a little over 6 cents per Point is how I arrive at the little over 263,333,000. With the average WM Account currently being about 15,500 Points this gives WYN the voting power of about 16,989 Accounts.


The $7,400,000 was for delinquent dues, not current dues, so I do not think it counts toward WYN's current voting power.  Only the $8,400,000 in MF's on unsold Points counts when estimating current voting power.

The dues on 15,500 credits is $1238.12.  $8,400,000 divided by $1238.12 equals 6,784 accounts, rounded down.  6,784 accounts times 15,500 credits equals 105,152,000 Developer credits.  The number of credits held by the developer on December 31, 2016 was 92,489,600.

For voting, a multiplier is calculated for every 5,000 credits owned (3 is the multiplier for 15,500 credits).

In the election this year, each account receives 2 votes that may be split or combined for candidates.

6,784 accounts times 2 votes times 3 equals a total voting power of 40,704.  (Rough estimate.  We should learn the actual value when the election results are reported next month).


----------



## geist1223 (Oct 18, 2017)

I believe - but can not say with certainty - that when WYN paid $7.4Mil on Foreclosed Points they now have control of those Points and they are part of the WYN Inventory.


----------



## CO skier (Oct 18, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> I believe - but can not say with certainty - that when WYN paid $7.4Mil on Foreclosed Points they now have control of those Points and they are part of the WYN Inventory.


I can see your point.  Hopefully, the reported results from the election yesterday will clear up the issue.

In the meantime, the $7.4 million represents 5,976 accounts and an additional 92,628,000 Developer held credits, for a total number of credits that is more than double what is reported on the last Auditor's report.

Rhetorical questions:  How can the Developer vote a total of 197,780,000 credits, but report only 92,489,600 credits as "Vacation credits held by the Developer"?  Can the developer hold credits off the books?  Will the 2017 Auditor's report show 197 million-ish credits as "Vacation credits held by the Developer"?  The Developer must have paid for delinquent dues in the prior years, but the yoy "Vacation credits held by the Developer" changed by less than 200,000 credits from 2015 to 2016.


----------



## ecwinch (Oct 18, 2017)

I think there are two facts being ignored in this speculation:

1) The report of purchased credits came from a salesperson. And what do we say about believing sales people?
2) The auditors report is a trailing report. Wyndham's credit balance is constantly changing as they sell credits and foreclose on other credits. The auditors report does not give detail on the age of the credits Wyndham is holding - so you have no way of knowing if the credits held were just acquired or were in their acct for 12 months.

And where are you pulling your figures for how many credits voted by Wyndham?


----------



## geist1223 (Oct 18, 2017)

The buy back of 3,000,000 Points came from the Sales person. The amount that WYN paid in MF's on Foreclosed Points and normal Points in WYN Inventory came from the 2017 Annual Report. Then I converted this to Points by estimating that at that level of Points WYN is probably paying about 6 cents (.06) per Point.


----------



## CO skier (Oct 19, 2017)

geist1223 said:


> Then I converted this to Points by estimating that at that level of Points WYN is probably paying about 6 cents (.06) per Point.


It does not detract from your point, but Wyndham would currently pay the per point cost for a 15,000-17,500 credit account ($0.07-$0.08/credit) for each account held, since the average number of vacation credits per Membership is currently about 16,000.  From the Declaration of Vacation Ownership
*
"For purposes of assessments and Voting Power, Declarant shall be deemed to hold the number of Memberships determined by dividing(the unsold or reacquired Vacation Credits) by (the average number of Vacation Credits per Membership held by Members other than Declarant), as adjusted periodically. 

Declarant's "Memberships" shall each be deemed to consist of the average number of Vacation Credits per Membership held by Members other than Declarant."
*


----------

