# What makes Wyndham #1 for time shares?



## jkomoros (Apr 27, 2008)

I own points in a Disney time share, but am looking at my next acquisition being another company.  What makes Wyndham #1 in the list below?  What lead you to purchase there as opposed to another company on the list?  

Following is Vacation Ownership World's Top 10 list for 2007:

   [. Wyndham Vacation Ownership = $1,993m sales (805,479 members)[/B]
   2. Marriott Vacation Club International = $1,452m sales (374,000 members)
   3. Westgate = $875m sales (500,000 members)
   4. Starwood Vacation Ownership = $781m sales (220,000 members)
   5. Hilton Grand Vacation Company = $555m sales (145,354 members)
   6. Bluegreen = $457m sales (185,000 members)
   7. Disney Vacation Club = $375m sales (120,000 members)
   8. Consolidated Resorts = $300m sales (208,000 members)
   9. Exclusive Resorts = $300m sales (3,300 members)
  10. Silverleaf = $235m sales (107,000 members)


----------



## Holly (Apr 27, 2008)

This list is simply a rank on sales, not satisfaction necessarily.  Wyndham is simply bigger.  All of the resort groups have many pros and cons.  I would guess that a "pro" for Wyndham is that you would have a larger pool of resorts to choose from.


----------



## Jya-Ning (Apr 27, 2008)

I guess that is sale and membership.  But that membership including 3 parts

1- Wyndham (old Fairfield) deed point membership, that is about 300,000 members
2 - Trendwest and WorldMark club point membership, that is about 300,000 members
3 - week system through Wyndham purchases the existing mini chain developer and management companies

As to the various of resort selections and number of resorts, since each system does not really commuicate with each other, I don't believe they are #1 compare to Diamond or Marriott.

Jya-Ning


----------



## timeos2 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Price and availability are big advantages*

Unlike the others Wyndham Fairshare Plus Points are readily available at over 90% less than developer price resale and annual fees are lower.  You can save around 50% with the others but that extra 40% is still a big number and all that initial purchase price gets you is the ability to use the system and pay the annual fees. It buys you nothing else so its wise to keep that number as low as possible. Also a low purchase cost means you can sell low without loss should you decide to move on at some point. 

Those facts combined with on of the largest in system choice of resorts and the RCI membership with the unique ability to request first make Wyndham one of the great values in timeshares - but only if you buy at resale.  Unfortunately the guaranteed 90%+ loss of value if purchased retail means that a retail purchase almost makes those purchases a ripoff.  It certainly guarantees you'd never get anything close to purchase cost back at resale.  

Thankfully the system was set up so a FSP point spends the same no matter how you bought it.  So go resale, buy what you feel you need with a decent annual cost and enjoy. The fact that it is such a large system and continues to grow makes it even more appealing.


----------



## GrayFal (Apr 27, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> *Unlike the others Wyndham Fairshare Plus Points are readily available at over 90% less than developer price resale and annual fees are lower. * You can save around 50% with the others but that extra 40% is still a big number and all that initial purchase price gets you is the ability to use the system and pay the annual fees. It buys you nothing else so its wise to keep that number as low as possible. Also a low purchase cost means you can sell low without loss should you decide to move on at some point.
> 
> Those facts combined with on of the largest in system choice of resorts and the RCI membership with the unique ability to request first make Wyndham one of the great values in timeshares - but only if you buy at resale.  Unfortunately the guaranteed 90%+ loss of value if purchased retail means that a retail purchase almost makes those purchases a ripoff.  It certainly guarantees you'd never get anything close to purchase cost back at resale.
> 
> Thankfully the system was set up so a FSP point spends the same no matter how you bought it.  So go resale, buy what you feel you need with a decent annual cost and enjoy. The fact that it is such a large system and continues to grow makes it even more appealing.



*WE know this is true, but 'we' on TUG/TS4Ms are an extremely small percentage of the people who buy.

Just something to think about - most owners - 90-95% (??? JMHO) - buy retail *


----------



## timeos2 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Save or pay 90% or more.  Which do you prefer?*



GrayFal said:


> WE know this is true, but 'we' on TUG/TS4Ms are an extremely small percentage of the people who buy.
> 
> Just something to think about - most owners - 90-95% (??? JMHO) - buy retail



Because they aren't aware of the option (the sales Weasels certainly aren't going to tell them!).  If the world at large knew that Wyndham points are discounted 90%+ the day the rescind period ends then no new points (retail) would be sold. The plan only works as long as the majority of new buyers are uninformed OR , and I simply can't figure out how this happens, owners fall for the "upgrade at retail" options.  Taken once call me uninformed. Taken again (and again in some cases) by the slick sales talk - no one to blame but the buyer.  

All I'm saying is if Wyndham can be #1 with most people buying at retail then think about the value it represents at resale.  90% off is almost always a deal and in this case represents one of the great values in timesharing.


----------



## lprstn (Apr 27, 2008)

jkomoros said:


> I own points in a Disney time share, but am looking at my next acquisition being another company.  What makes Wyndham #1 in the list below?  What lead you to purchase there as opposed to another company on the list?



I say price and product flexibility.  Owning Wyndam resale is definately a great bargain compared to lots of other TS systems, but I get so much use it it as the following are why we chose it over other points programs (although to be honest I would purchase DVC in a second if DH allowed me too)

- Price of resale can't be beat, heck the price per point retail compared to the price of other resorts listed is still lower

- If you have ever gone on a tour with them, you are definately sold on the plush, gorgeous, 4bedroom Presidential suites...I haven't seen one resort show me a unit as nice as Wyndam's Presidential Suite...and ANY owner can book one.

- Wyndam has a huge offering of resorts within its points system for Internal trading, at no additional cost compared to the other Points systems

- Wyndam lets me chose what size/season/value of a week I deposit with RCI / II will be

- As a Wyndam owner you get priority booking with RCI/II on all Wyndam deposits

- If you purchase through the developer you get the choice of RCI points resorts to reserve through also

- If you purchase through the developer you can use your points for Theme Park tickets, tours (like Adventures by Disney - but its called Adventures with Wyndam), cruise packages that include cruise and room, and much more.

- Wyndam adds more resorts every year, in desireable locations based somewhat on Owners feedback and request.

- Wyndam offeres Owner's Party Weekends for discounted points cost and prices.

- Wyndam also discounts various resorts pionts cost in addition to off season points pricing.

- Wyndam has just as nice resorts as some of the Marriotts/Disney/Starwood in some cases and definately more locations...without paying extra to visit any one of them.

- Because they have so many resorts to choose from in most desired areas, in most all cases you can get the accomodations you want simply because Wyndam gives you so many avenues to get it and have so many resorts in house to rent.

- You can cancel your reservation (up to 15 days before check-in) without penalty.  Which makes it easy and inexpensive to rent


Need I say more?


----------



## GrayFal (Apr 27, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> *Because they aren't aware of the option (the sales Weasels certainly aren't going to tell them!).  *If the world at large knew that Wyndham points are discounted 90%+ the day the rescind period ends then no new points (retail) would be sold. The plan only works as long as the majority of new buyers are uninformed OR , and I simply can't figure out how this happens, owners fall for the "upgrade at retail" options.
> *Taken once call me uninformed. Taken again (and again in some cases) by the slick sales talk - no one to blame but the buyer.  *
> *All I'm saying is if Wyndham can be #1 with most people buying at retail then think about the value it represents at resale.  90% off is almost always a deal and in this case represents one of the great values in timesharing*


*Yes, my point exactly. We (the informed resale buyer) are an extremely small part of the Wyndham family

Sad but true

It sure is - and even better at 90% off*


----------



## Jya-Ning (Apr 27, 2008)

It is not the only one that loss the value.  And its % of lossing is not the worse one in all the TS.  Of course, if you look at the 10 company from the list by the source provided by OP, I will believe that its resale value loss is among the worse group in that 10 chains, but have around avg. + resort quality among that group, and maybe at top of possible resort selections in that group, and have less than avg MF in that group.  As flexibility goes, it probably amongs the avg+ also.  Although it has its up and down in the management, I believe it still above average + in that group.

Don't know how you want to rating #1.  But in my book, I would not rate them too far from that.

Jya-Ning


----------



## Steamboat Bill (Apr 27, 2008)

I see you cut and pasted this post from http://www.destinationclubforums.com/f34/vacation-ownership-world-february-2008-sales-642.html and left off the last two important sentences.

The Berkely Group (est $700m sales) and Diamond Resorts International (est $300m sales) were not included as they did not provide any data for the survey.

It is very impressive that Exclusive Resorts is tied for the #8 largest sales and only has 3,300 members as compared to #1 sales leader Wyndham with 805,479 members.

-----------------

Thus, Wyndham is #1 in terms of 2007 sales (and total members), not necessarily #1 in terms of quality, value, or owner satisfaction.


----------



## lprstn (Apr 27, 2008)

Jya-Ning said:


> It is not the only one that loss the value.  And its % of lossing is not the worse one in all the TS.  Of course, if you look at the 10 company from the list by the source provided by OP, I will believe that its resale value loss is among the worse group in that 10 chains, but have around avg. + resort quality among that group, and maybe at top of possible resort selections in that group, and have less than avg MF in that group.  As flexibility goes, it probably amongs the avg+ also.  Although it has its up and down in the management, I believe it still above average + in that group.
> 
> Don't know how you want to rating #1.  But in my book, I would not rate them too far from that.
> 
> Jya-Ning


The loss of value is seen with ALL resorts, and is really subjective as it depends on what resort is purchased, what week or program is purchased, and what the owner feels about thier purchase.


----------



## janna1 (Apr 27, 2008)

lprstn said:


> - As a Wyndam owner you get priority booking with RCI/II on all Wyndam deposits



Sorry about the questions, it is a little bit off the subject. But really want to know ...

Is this true? Would that be unfair to other TS that trade in RCI? 

Is it legal for Wyndham to do it just because it owns RCI too?


----------



## timeos2 (Apr 27, 2008)

janna1 said:


> Sorry about the questions, it is a little bit off the subject. But really want to know ...
> 
> Is this true? Would that be unfair to other TS that trade in RCI?
> 
> Is it legal for Wyndham to do it just because it owns RCI too?



Official preference would be for other Wyndhams - similar to what II does with Marriott or if you're a VRI managed resort owner you get preference at another VRI managed resort. But it goes beyond that as no individual RCI members get "request first". But as a Wyndham member you do. And it may be even more if, as one would suspect, the always questionable resort trade values, used to even up unequal trades in the weeks systems, get tweaked toward favoring Wyndham resorts/owners. Can't prove it but would you doubt it? As long as it isn't too blatant no one is going to be able to call them on it.


----------



## Jya-Ning (Apr 27, 2008)

janna1 said:


> Sorry about the questions, it is a little bit off the subject. But really want to know ...
> 
> Is this true? Would that be unfair to other TS that trade in RCI?
> 
> Is it legal for Wyndham to do it just because it owns RCI too?



It has very loose situation.  *It only apply when Wyndham deposit its own weeks*.  A very good trade can see and get these week also.  However, the Wyndham owner's week will be better in this situation.

If it is other resort chain, sometime, Wyndham owner will not be able to see it no matter how many points (s)he deposit until a later time.

RCI/II seems to do that for the mini chains as well as most of the resorts.  Their owner will get a few days head start against other owners.  Not just because Wyndham owns RCI.

Worse situation in last year, I have seen WM made some deposit reported by tug, however, I can not "get" it through Wyndham's deposite (not that I need to get them anyway).  And it seems like for 15 days.  Than I loss patient to try.

A few times, some of the HGVC's deposit has the same effect.  Although some of the tugger has week that I would think Wyndham's deposit can sure compete with them, but Wyndham's week just could not.

On the other hand, Wyndham's internal prioity seems run much shorter.

If you read Stan's post, you would know that the Wyndham's trading power sometimes is at the penalize side because IMHO it is affliated with RCI.  Of course, sometime it may have some up hand, but I am pretty sure that will be occation, not the norm.  I believe all the developer has a say of what they want to open their week to, so they can get more lamb to eat.

However, if you put on on-going search, then RCI seems have some complex rule to determine how get what, and sometime, when you put in will give you a much needed head start than what you put in as long as the deposit side don't put any special request to prevent your resort owner to get it.

Is it fair? Don't know.  RCI is trying to please all the developers, and yet maintain some fairness based on their view.

Jya-Ning


----------



## AwayWeGo (Apr 28, 2008)

*Never Too Late To Switch ?*




timeos2 said:


> All I'm saying is if Wyndham can be #1 with most people buying at retail then think about the value it represents at resale.  90% off is almost always a deal and in this case represents one of the great values in timesharing.


Shux, maybe the smart move would be to dump my 4 current non-Wyndham timeshares (2 Florida + 2 non-Florida) & take the (resale) Wyndham FairShare Plus timeshare points plunge instead. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## GrayFal (Apr 28, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> Shux, maybe the smart move would be to dump my 4 current non-Wyndham timeshares (2 Florida + 2 non-Florida) & take the (resale) Wyndham FairShare Plus timeshare points plunge instead.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



It could be time ....


----------



## Robnsunny (Apr 28, 2008)

jkomoros said:


> What lead you to purchase there as opposed to another company on the list?



I got into Fairfield because there were and still are definite advantages to being gold or platinum VIP. We did it through the PIC program at a cost which was comparable to resale rates and with lower than usual maintenance fees. Unfortunately, the entry to this program has changed so it is not as practical. 

We like the flexibility and take frequent long weekends, usually using our 60 day points discount and room upgrade (a huge point savings that few figure the cost on when they discount VIP). I can't emphasize enough how flexible this system is.

We like the wide range of resort availability and locations. We usually try to book a Wyndham first for a primary vacation and go through RCI as a backup. We know we getting a certain quality through Wyndham and it is more hit and miss through RCI. Going through Wyndham also eliminates the exchange fee. As platinum VIP, we can make 11 month reservations. That puts us behind owners at a resort but ahead of most others so we can usually get where and when we want by planning ahead.

Lastly, we do get a little extra special treat at Wyndhams and we've come to like it. Anytime the staff at a Wyndham managed resort pulls up your info, they see that VIP designation. They quickly become more responsive and eager to resolve any problems. It's a stark contrast to the response we've gotten to requests at RCI exchanges.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Apr 28, 2008)

To the original OP, Wyndham is a great system, but it is just like any other timeshare in that a large percentage of people feel they were duped.  This explains all of the eBay listings by postcard companies; people are literally paying someone to take the burden of the points from them.  I don't get it, personally.  

There was a class action lawsuit a few years ago, where owners claimed they couldn't get what they wanted, when they wanted it.  This lawsuit seems frivolous, because in my brief experience with Fairfield, we have been smart enough to plan ahead, and then we can be flexible when we need to be.     

Off the subject: 

I think Wyndham hates resale and pretty much sits on the transfers of ownership for up to 3 months because they know we are getting our bargains.  (Although I have had excellent luck with Jeff Fudge and Angel England of RPMI Realty with quick closing and transfer.  Compare that to any of the PCC's closing companies.)  They don't like what we all know about it.  

I agree with Pat.  Most people don't know about resale and certainly don't know about eBay.  I told my hairdresser about eBay for a timeshare purchase and she was astounded when she looked online.  I know that people here think that everyone knows about eBay.  I talked to another TUGger about this very recently, and I could tell that he was skeptical of that statement. But it's true, and it's amazing to those of us who are "in the know" to think that others don't have our knowledge.  It's really rather egocentric of us.  :rofl: Aren't you glad everyone doesn't know about eBay?  I am.


----------



## AwayWeGo (Apr 28, 2008)

*Crucial Question.*

OK, renting out timeshare reservations is sometimes OK & sometimes a major serious No-No. 

For instance, if I make an RCI exchange reservation -- weeks or points _mox nix_ -- it is against the rules, bigtime, to rent that out.  Ditto RCI _Last Call_ & _Instant Exchange_. 

By contrast, if I join T.H.E. Club (formerly Club SunTerra) & make a timeshare reservation using SunOptions ( -- T.H.E. Options? -- ), it's perfectly OK to rent it out.  In fact, 1 influential former TUG-BBS participant figured out how to do that on a semi-large scale -- more power to him. 

So what about renting out Wyndham timeshare reservations made by a Wyndham resale owner using Wyndham FairShare Plus Points? 

OK ?  

No-No ? 

Uncharted territory ? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


----------



## Jya-Ning (Apr 28, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> OK ?
> 
> No-No ?
> 
> ...



*O.K.*  They are trying their best to balance when treating no renting owner and business owner and renting owner fair.

Jya-Ning

You actually have 3 choices
1. Rent out your points to other owner
2. make a reservation and rent it out yourselves
3. Give their renting agency - "Extra Holiday" either your point or a week you reserved and they will rent for you on commision base.


----------



## GrayFal (Apr 28, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> OK, renting out timeshare reservations is sometimes OK & sometimes a major serious No-No.
> 
> For instance, if I make an RCI exchange reservation -- weeks or points _mox nix_ -- it is against the rules, bigtime, to rent that out.  Ditto RCI _Last Call_ & _Instant Exchange_.
> 
> ...


As long as u r enting out what u reserved using your FSP points thru Wyndham - there is no problem..... just like THE Club or Starwood Staroptions or Hyatt Points or HGVC Points - you basically own EVERYWHERE- and can use your points to reserve anywhere - and then use the reservation yourself or rent it out or give it to a friend or deposit with one of the independents. 
What u can't do (I think - and please correct me if I am wrong) is deposit that particular reservation in RCI - they deposit 'generic' weeks worth "X" points as instructed by you.


----------



## RIMike (Jun 3, 2008)

*wyndham presentation, now I have questions*



timeos2 said:


> Because they aren't aware of the option (the sales Weasels certainly aren't going to tell them!).  If the world at large knew that Wyndham points are discounted 90%+ the day the rescind period ends then no new points (retail) would be sold. The plan only works as long as the majority of new buyers are uninformed OR , and I simply can't figure out how this happens, owners fall for the "upgrade at retail" options.  Taken once call me uninformed. Taken again (and again in some cases) by the slick sales talk - no one to blame but the buyer.
> 
> All I'm saying is if Wyndham can be #1 with most people buying at retail then think about the value it represents at resale.  90% off is almost always a deal and in this case represents one of the great values in timesharing.



I went to the Sales Presentation at Bonnet Creek this week and now I have questions. In the presentation I asked about resale and they said they do not buy back property, but I could on resale.  Then I asked if I bought resale what would be the disadvantages of this. He said that no matter how many points you buy on resale, you would still never be a VIP or higher member.  Help me out here....I need to understand this?  Do I need to purchase some retail and some resale?


----------



## Caius (Jun 3, 2008)

RIMike said:


> Help me out here....I need to understand this?  Do I need to purchase some retail and some resale?



It depends if you want the VIP benefits.  If not, you can buy all resale points and laugh silently to yourself every time someone from sales tells you you're not a "full owner."

You can read some of the discussions on the value of VIP here and on the wyndham owner's forums.  Many VIPs use and enjoy the benefits, but the majority of those posting here do not feel those benefits are worth the tens of thousands of dollars extra it takes to buy retail.  Also it is worth noting that the VIP program is subject to change or elimination at any point, and the benefits have been reduced over the past couple of years.

Good luck with your purchase...read up and make an informed decision


----------



## PrettyKitties (Jun 3, 2008)

For what's it worth, according to the Disney Files (a magazine for DVC owners); Market Matrix ("a leading provider of customer and employee feedback and perfrmance tools for the hospitality industry") ranked DVC #1 in 2007 for member satisfication with TS accommodations.


----------



## bnoble (Jun 3, 2008)

...says the DVC owner. 

Wyndham has the advantage of having a _lot_ of resorts, and so by the law of large numbers, they have a lot of owners, and an impressive sales volume.  It's really nothing more than that.  The newer resorts are very nice, but overall the resorts are _okay_.


----------



## timeos2 (Jun 3, 2008)

*VIP is a crock at the price you have to pay (its almost a crock for free!)*



RIMike said:


> I went to the Sales Presentation at Bonnet Creek this week and now I have questions. In the presentation I asked about resale and they said they do not buy back property, but I could on resale.  Then I asked if I bought resale what would be the disadvantages of this. He said that no matter how many points you buy on resale, you would still never be a VIP or higher member.  Help me out here....I need to understand this?  Do I need to purchase some retail and some resale?



VIP is a questionable value in any case but, since to get it you must purchase ALL developer priced points, you would be paying as much as tens of thousands of dollars for a "free" paper, maybe an early check in and a few potential discounted points values if what you want is still around at the 2 month point. 

Save the money, don't worry about VIP and use the savings to pay the much more predictable every year fees that every resort charges. Those are guaranteed unlike the ever changing, and less valued, VIP nonsense. You may not even get to the total you'd pay UPFRONT for VIP until 10+ years buying resale and paying the annual fees. Plus if you ever sell you an get back what you buy at resale - you'll take a 90%+ hit on retail purchases on the 11th day you own it (when the rescind period ends).  Which do you think makes more sense?


----------



## Jya-Ning (Jun 3, 2008)

RIMike said:


> I went to the Sales Presentation at Bonnet Creek this week and now I have questions. In the presentation I asked about resale and they said they do not buy back property, but I could on resale.  Then I asked if I bought resale what would be the disadvantages of this. He said that no matter how many points you buy on resale, you would still never be a VIP or higher member.  Help me out here....I need to understand this?  Do I need to purchase some retail and some resale?



If you are not an owner yet, you should start with resell to make sure you like the program and what it has offer.  Than after few years, you will know what you can do with a point base timeshare, and if you can take advantage of extra program it offers but require you to purchase retail.

Otherwise, you are gambling on making decision on purchasing something that will loss 90% of values.

If you are an owner already, you should be the only one to answer the question you ask.  Do you willing to pay retail price to reach to VIP level knowing it is lossing 90% of market value.  If you have no idea what VIP can do, it is very unlikely the name along worth the loss of your money.  If you have any idea, you probably will still feel it does not worth that much money.  But I do know people willing to pay extra to be called VIP and can afford that kind of action.

Jya-Ning


----------



## randyz (Jun 4, 2008)

If I may add my 2 cents:

As previously stated Wyndham ranks #1 because its the biggest. But maybe its the biggest for a reason. In yesterdays annual meeting last years Fairshare Plus data was released. This is FSP data (not old weeks owners and not Worldmark) Membership now stands at 350,000 and last year grew by 8% (these are retail sales). Points ownership grew by 15% which tells lots of current owners are buying more which points to good customer satisfaction.

What do I like about my FSP ownership.
1. The large number of properties to choose from.
2. The point systems which allows me to book the number of days I need and the size of unit up to 4 bedroom. I can even book multiple rooms.
3. The consistent quality I am getting when I arrive. As compared to my previous II experiences which varied from great to abysmal. Since 2004 I have stayed at 7 different resorts in FSP.
4. Like most owners I bought retail and have added on with resale at a huge discount.
5. Availability of points rental through the large user group (2500+ and counting)

I recently arranged FIVE 2 bedroom units in Kona through FSP for 1 week in March for a large family gathering. These were arranged through my current point ownership and supplemented through points rental. Very few (if any)points programs would allow me to do this so successfully.

As for the 90% loss of value. Most people buy TS for the longterm and the purchase cost is often secondary to the MF over the long term. That FSP points are cheap makes sense they have the largest supply into a resale market with few buyers. I say enjoy it while you can, I did. If resale becomes better known (and acceptable, who to trust is still a major issue for buyers) the prices will rise in accordance with supply and demand. If 25% of todays retail buyers became ebay buyers supply of cheap points would rapidly dry up IMO.

Randy


----------



## bnoble (Jun 4, 2008)

> I say enjoy it while you can, I did. If resale becomes better known (and acceptable, who to trust is still a major issue for buyers) the prices will rise in accordance with supply and demand. If 25% of todays retail buyers became ebay buyers supply of cheap points would rapidly dry up IMO.



I agree with this completely.

A friend of mine (who just joined TUG and so is probably reading this!) recently purchased from the developer at Bonnet Creek.  She didn't get in touch with me until after her recission period ended.  While it's true she could have saved a good chunk of money on the front end, I know a _lot_ of people who have bought from the developer and are still happy with their ownerships despite all the little niggling complaints we have about the system.  

The spread between resale and developer pricing cannot continue as the two markets become more efficient.  Some believe this will lead to a developer collapse, with all prices moving to current resale levels.  I don't agree.  My sense is "most people" have no idea that one can buy deeds on ebay for a dime on the dollar---that certainly seems to be the case with folks I meet around the resort pools.

In the meantime, get while the getting is good!


----------



## timeos2 (Jun 4, 2008)

*A 90% retail penalty cannot go on forever*



randyz said:


> What do I like about my FSP ownership.
> 1. The large number of properties to choose from.
> 2. The point systems which allows me to book the number of days I need and the size of unit up to 4 bedroom. I can even book multiple rooms.
> 3. The consistent quality I am getting when I arrive. As compared to my previous II experiences which varied from great to abysmal. Since 2004 I have stayed at 7 different resorts in FSP.
> ...



This is a great summary of the tremendous value offered by Wyndham Fairshare Plus. If you can minimize the #4 retail purchase the value is even higher. I agree that someday the market will have to correct and either retail will fall to resale prices (highly unlikely) OR Wyndham will have to take steps to correct the imbalance between retail & resale and get the resale values up (much more likely if they are to survive).  Until then enjoy one of the truly great bargains in all of timeshare with resale FSP points.


----------



## PrettyKitties (Jun 5, 2008)

bnoble said:


> ...says the DVC owner.
> 
> .



Yes - but I will soon be a Wyndham owner!  (Depending on how long it take them to process my resale week.)


----------



## PrettyKitties (Jun 5, 2008)

bnoble said:


> I agree with this completely.
> 
> The spread between resale and developer pricing cannot continue as the two markets become more efficient.  Some believe this will lead to a developer collapse, with all prices moving to current resale levels.  I don't agree.  My sense is "most people" have no idea that one can buy deeds on ebay for a dime on the dollar---that certainly seems to be the case with folks I meet around the resort pools.
> 
> In the meantime, get while the getting is good!



The way I see it,  more developers are going to go to ROFR - if anyone tries to buy cheap, the developer can get the cheap TS & resell it at the inflated price.  Buyers are not going to want to buy from sellers (because of ROFR), sellers will not be able to sell at an arm's length transaction, the developer will refuse to take the TS back from the seller & the seller gets stuck & no more bargains for buyers.


----------



## bnoble (Jun 5, 2008)

> Depending on how long it take them to process my resale week.


Heh.  Don't hold your breath.  Wyndham ain't Disney. 

ROFR can't be added after the fact, and Wyndham is already BIG.  There are an insane number of points already in circulation.


----------



## PrettyKitties (Jun 6, 2008)

bnoble said:


> Heh.  Don't hold your breath.  Wyndham ain't Disney.
> 
> ROFR can't be added after the fact, and Wyndham is already BIG.  There are an insane number of points already in circulation.



Yeah - I've read enough of this forum to know not to hold my breath!   the seller made a reservation for me in November, so I'm hoping everything is taken care of by then so I can deposit the week with RCI or rent the week.

I know ROFR cannot be added after the fact (thank goodness), I was just reflecting on new developments or new sales going foward.  I bet a lot of developers wish they could just unilaterally add ROFR (and it sounds like some are trying!) :rofl:


----------



## timeos2 (Jun 6, 2008)

PrettyKitties said:


> Yeah - I've read enough of this forum to know not to hold my breath!   the seller made a reservation for me in November, so I'm hoping everything is taken care of by then so I can deposit the week with RCI or rent the week.
> 
> I know ROFR cannot be added after the fact (thank goodness), I was just reflecting on new developments or new sales going foward.  I bet a lot of developers wish they could just unilaterally add ROFR (and it sounds like some are trying!) :rofl:



They sure are - or at least one is.  

Wyndham is not likely to add ROFR unless they also take big steps to prop up reslae prices. Otherwise they would be having to talk to people they sold a point to at $.15 who now finds they can't get $.01 for it on resale thanks in part to actions by Wyndham. They don't want/need to deal with that!  Plus, as you say, ROFR cannot be added after the original sale so there would always be millions (billions?) of FSP points not under ROFR so it wouldn't do much good to add it to a few contracts now.


----------



## bnoble (Jun 6, 2008)

> so I can deposit the week with RCI or rent the week.


Unfortunately, you can't deposit a specific reserved week.  You can only deposit generic points.  You can ask for a "real week" instead of a generic deposit, but Wyndham gets to choose which one---could be okay, but could also be a dog.


----------



## PrettyKitties (Jun 6, 2008)

bnoble said:


> Unfortunately, you can't deposit a specific reserved week.  You can only deposit generic points.  You can ask for a "real week" instead of a generic deposit, but Wyndham gets to choose which one---could be okay, but could also be a dog.



I didn't buy points - I got a week on the Big Island.  Is that different?  I thought I could deposit my week with RCI & get an exchange later.


----------



## Bill4728 (Jun 6, 2008)

FF/Wyndham has at least three kinds of owners (not counting the WM owners)
- Owners of weeks and /or UDI with FSP. 
- Owners of weeks without FSP
- Owners at resorts managed by FF/Wyndham but not a FF week. ( some resorts managed by FF have some owners which are a part of another TS system) 

Only owners of weeks /or UDI with FSP have to go thru FF to do their trades. If you own a week at a FF resort which isn't in FSP,  you deposit directly with your exchange company.


----------



## PrettyKitties (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for the info Bill.  For a couple more stupid questions - how do I know what I have and what is FSP?  (I am buying at the Mauna Loa Village by the Sea on the Big Island.)  Mahalo for all the help!


----------



## bnoble (Jun 6, 2008)

My mistake: I assumed you were talking about FairShare Plus (FSP)---that's Wyndham's "mini-system" points product.

I believe Mauna Loa has both weeks that have been converted to FSP, and weeks that have not been converted.  These appear to be floating weeks.  Your seller should be able to tell you whether it has been converted or not.


----------



## PrettyKitties (Jun 6, 2008)

bnoble said:


> My mistake: I assumed you were talking about FairShare Plus (FSP)---that's Wyndham's "mini-system" points product.
> 
> I believe Mauna Loa has both weeks that have been converted to FSP, and weeks that have not been converted.  These appear to be floating weeks.  Your seller should be able to tell you whether it has been converted or not.



Thanks for the help!  I don't think my week has been converted since it is a floating week, but'll I ask anyway.  I am so sorry for all the stupid questions!


----------



## acesneights (Jun 6, 2008)

A floating week is the same to RCI whether or not it is at a Wyndham resort. You either use it, rent it or make an RCI (Or II) weeks exchange.

Stan


----------

