# Southwest still mum on Hawaii schedule



## RNCollins (Aug 28, 2018)

*Southwest still mum on Hawaii schedule*
https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Southwest-still-mum-on-Hawaii-schedule

By Robert Silk / Travel Weekly / August 21, 2018

“Denver -- Southwest, which is still waiting on FAA approval to begin its much-anticipated Hawaii service, won't schedule flights until that regulatory process is over, chief revenue officer Andrew Watterson said. 

The carrier has said that it will fly to Hawaii from Oakland, San Jose, Sacramento and San Diego. Specific routes haven't been announced, but its Hawaii destinations will be Honolulu, Maui the Big Island and Kauai. Southwest also plans to offer inter-island service.

The attention the plans are getting has irked at least one Southwest competitor.

"We get asked a lot about Southwest right now, which has done a masterful job of getting a lot of column inches in various publications by announcing very little," Hawaiian Airlines CEO Peter Ingram said in May. 

Speaking Monday at the International Aviation Forecast Summit at Denver's downtown Hyatt Regency, Watterson said he hopes airlines will continue to voice aggravation about the lack of information Southwest has revealed.

"I'm going to continue to needle my competitors and hope that they'll complain and talk about it, so we'll get free advertising," he said. 

Nobody remembers when a new air service starts, Watterson added, but people remember if the launch gets screwed up. 

Southwest is working through the process of getting Extended Operations Service (Etops) authorizations from the FAA for each of the Boeing 737 Max 8 and 737-800 aircraft it intends to use for Hawaii service.” 




Photo Credit: Ozell Stephens Jr. / Airlines In The Sky


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## taterhed (Aug 28, 2018)

so.....I might just have an inside source to 'consult' with this weekend.

If I get any feedback.....I'll update.
Very hush hush you know. JK


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## dougp26364 (Aug 28, 2018)

The last reasonable information I read indicated it's likely to be October or November before SWA's can even consider the start up of ticket sales. This based on typical timetables based off the speed, or lack thereof, getting all the i's dotted and t's crossed (FAA requirements, pilot training, training runs et....).
I don't look for much "new" information until maybe the end of Sept at the earliest and maybe as late as November.

To that end we have our flights booked on United for our Feb. timeshare stay. Waiting on SWA's was going to cut it way to close for my tastes.


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## SmithOp (Aug 28, 2018)

We are going to BI next May, hoping to get a good price on Southwest.  Hawaiian is still $700 RT from LAX, they don’t put spring fares on sale until Jan so I’m holding out.


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## PigsDad (Aug 28, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> *Hawaiian is still $700 RT* from LAX, they don’t put spring fares on sale until Jan so I’m holding out.


If only I could fly RT to Hawaii that cheap!  Sigh...

Kurt


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## Passepartout (Aug 28, 2018)

It takes time to negotiate with the airports for counter space, gate assignments, even take-off and landing time spots. Then construction and staffing. There is far more to it than just announcing a route and selling some tickets. SW has shown that they know the RIGHT way to run an airline.

Jim


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## taterhed (Aug 28, 2018)

Hmmm don't hold your breath....but I'll report back if I hear anything


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## JIMinNC (Aug 28, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> We are going to BI next May, hoping to get a good price on Southwest.  Hawaiian is still $700 RT from LAX, they don’t put spring fares on sale until Jan so I’m holding out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro





PigsDad said:


> If only I could fly RT to Hawaii that cheap!  Sigh...
> 
> Kurt



Wow. I'm surprised it's that much from LAX in the spring, which isn't a high season.

Earlier this year, we booked RT Charlotte to HNL and then Kona back to Charlotte for a high season next Feb/Mar for only $868. That's from the east cost, and only $168 more than low season from LAX. Really strange because Charlotte is usually a high-fare market since AA has such a monopoly here. On top of the good fare, my wife just qualified for AA Platinum, so we were able to rebook our seats to Main Cabin Extra for free.


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## Luanne (Aug 28, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> Wow. I'm surprised it's that much from LAX in the spring, which isn't a high season.


I'm surprised as well. We can fly RT from the Bay Area to Maui in March for around $400 each on Alaska Airlines.  Since I have a companion fare for two of us it would be around $500.


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## SmithOp (Aug 28, 2018)

JIMinNC said:


> Wow. I'm surprised it's that much from LAX in the spring, which isn't a high season.
> 
> Earlier this year, we booked RT Charlotte to HNL and then Kona back to Charlotte for a high season next Feb/Mar for only $868. That's from the east cost, and only $168 more than low season from LAX. Really strange because Charlotte is usually a high-fare market since AA has such a monopoly here. On top of the good fare, my wife just qualified for AA Platinum, so we were able to rebook our seats to Main Cabin Extra for free.



I just checked again and its dropped to $635 but then there are bag fees, and thats economy coach.  May 1-15th.

I used to fly from Sacramento for $399 RT before Aloha packed in, I think SWA competition will bring down prices again.


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## triangulum33 (Sep 1, 2018)

Fingers crossed for nonstop Sacramento to Kahalui.


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## canesfan (Sep 2, 2018)

This summer we flew RT from PHX $400 to Lihue.


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## taterhed (Sep 3, 2018)

Well, as promised, a little bit of update.

This isn't 'secret' information, but it definitely has a well-informed opinion from someone with a good view of the situation.

There are 3 issues affecting the SWA Hawaii deployment:
Equipment
Support
Approval.

I don't think the equipment is going to be a problem...once they are able to demonstrate the flights
I don't think the approval will be a problem....once they are fully ready to go...

Support:
Training the pilot/crew force isn't a huge issue...it's a common place activity for airlines. Many already have the experience from previous lives....
Training the maintainers.......well, that might be a sticky wicket.

I fear that SWA has a labor issue to resolve with their maintainers. Once this issue is resolved....the maintainers will need to be trained and deployed for the ETOPS operations.  There is an opinion afloat that once the labor agreement is solved....many who receive the training/benefits may retire.  This could cause some significant delays in training and deploying support for the operations.  Obviously, these labor agreements are always tricky.

Of course, this is just conjecture.  In fact, SWA could throw gobs of money at the operation and field it quite quickly.  This seems unlikely.

Again, I think the Hawaii operations are still a good way off.  I wish them the best of luck...


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## BDMX2 (Oct 25, 2018)

I was just poking around online to see if there is any recent buzz and came across this article from a few days ago: https://simpleflying.com/southwest-airlines-hawaii-flights-launch/

If I believe this article, word should be coming soon.  I've been holding off making plans for next June in hopes that SWA starts flights by then.


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## PamMo (Oct 25, 2018)

We flew SWA to/from Cancun last week (out of Baltimore) and the flight crew had fun with a major tease on the new routes to Hawaii coming up. They had the whole plane load of passengers cheering! It made me wonder if the flights will start sooner rather than later next year.


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## BDMX2 (Oct 25, 2018)

PamMo said:


> We flew SWA to/from Cancun last week (out of Baltimore) and the flight crew had fun with a major tease on the new routes to Hawaii coming up. They had the whole plane load of passengers cheering! It made me wonder if the flights will start sooner rather than later next year.


I like the sounds of this!


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## triangulum33 (Oct 25, 2018)

Beat of Hawaii has been posting timely updates on the subject.  They also say we may be getting an announcement by the end of the month.

https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-hawaii-airline-update/

Hoping that SW's routes drive down prices across all carriers, but I wonder if there is market space for all of them.


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## spears2008 (Oct 25, 2018)

Darn.  In the earnings call today, SW stated they will sell tickets by the end of the year for flights next year.  I was hoping for December flights with tickets being sold imminently.  No luck.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 27, 2018)

We just returned from Vegas on a SWA flight. Going out, no mention of Hawaii. 4 days later, the flight attendants were telling the passengers the Hawaii was coming so start packing your bags. Granted I'm a little jaded because I've heard timeshare salesmen tell me something was coming that didn't happen but, I can't believe SWA's would allow flight crews to talk to passengers without an immanent announcement about to be made.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 28, 2018)

dougp26364 said:


> We just returned from Vegas on a SWA flight. Going out, no mention of Hawaii. 4 days later, the flight attendants were telling the passengers the Hawaii was coming so start packing your bags. Granted I'm a little jaded because I've heard timeshare salesmen tell me something was coming that didn't happen but, I can't believe SWA's would allow flight crews to talk to passengers without an immanent announcement about to be made.



My bags are already packed.  I will be flying out New Years Eve on Hawaiian from JFK.


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 29, 2018)

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/10/28/southwest-airlines-2019-hawaii-plans-become-a-bit.aspx

Good article on Southwest to Hawaii.  Sounds like early 2019.


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## WalnutBaron (Oct 29, 2018)

Thanks for sharing this. One part of the article I find stretches the imagination is the notion that Southwest's customers are so loyal that they have been waiting for years to visit Hawaii until Southwest could fly them there. Really? Ummm...no. The article's author maintains that Southwest will bring a lot of new, pent-up demand and that Southwest will not take as much share from Hawaiian and Alaska as one might think. If you believe that, I'll take 20 points plus the Warriors when they play again Wednesday night.


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## SmithOp (Oct 29, 2018)

I’m going to suck it up and book Hawaiian for my May trip, just dont want to play the last minute booking game not knowing prices.  I can also get the extra comfort class.  I just flew PHX-FLL on SWA and 4 hours in a packed cramped middle seat was too much for this big guy.


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## spears2008 (Oct 30, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> I’m going to suck it up and book Hawaiian for my May trip, just dont want to play the last minute booking game not knowing prices.  I can also get the extra comfort class.  I just flew PHX-FLL on SWA and 4 hours in a packed cramped middle seat was too much for this big guy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


did you know you can book an extra seat on SW and have 2 seats if one is not comfortable?  You book the extra seat, pay for it, and then SW will reimburse you after you fly.  

*Guidelines for Customers of Size*
Customers who encroach upon any part of the neighboring seat(s) may proactively purchase the needed number of seats prior to travel in order to ensure the additional seat(s) is available. The armrest is considered to be the definitive boundary between seats; width between the armrests measures 17 inches. The purchase of additional seats serves as a notification to Southwest of a special seating need, and allows us to adequately plan for the number of seats that will be occupied on the aircraft.  In turn, this helps to ensure we can accommodate all Customers on the flight/aircraft for which they purchased a ticket and avoid asking Customers to relinquish their seats for an unplanned accommodation. Most importantly, it ensures that all Customers onboard have access to safe and comfortable seating. You may contact us for a refund of the cost of additional seating after travel. Customers of size who prefer not to purchase an additional seat in advance have the option of purchasing just one seat and then discussing their seating needs with the Customer Service Agent at their departure gate. If it is determined that a second (or third) seat is needed, they will be accommodated with a complimentary additional seat(s).

For more information, please refer to our Customer of Size Policy Q&A.


*Online Booking Instructions for proactively purchasing an additional seat(s) on Southwest.com*

Click "Air."
Select your city pair(s) and travel date(s).
In the "Passengers" field, indicate the total number of seats needed by selecting that number of adults. (For example, if one Customer of size requires two seats and is traveling with one other adult in his/her party, select "3 Adults.")
Proceed through the "Select Flight" and "Itinerary and Pricing" pages.
Complete the "Who's Flying?" name fields for a Customer of size as follows: 
*Customer with a middle name*

A Passenger named Tom James Smith would designate Passenger One as "Tom James Smith," and Passenger Two as "Tom James XS Smith" (first name Tom, middle name James XS, and last name Smith).





*Customer without a middle name*

A Passenger named Tom Smith would designate Passenger One as "Tom Smith," and Passenger Two as "Tom XS Smith" (first name Tom, middle name XS, and last name Smith).






If a Customer purchases a Business Select or Anytime Fare, the second seat can be sold at the discounted Child's Fare. It is important to note that the Child's Fare is only available via our Customer Support Services. You will need to call (800) I-FLY-SWA (800-435-9792) to book/purchase the extra seat at the Child's Fare.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 31, 2018)

spears2008 said:


> did you know you can book an extra seat on SW and have 2 seats if one is not comfortable?  You book the extra seat, pay for it, and then SW will reimburse you after you fly.
> 
> *Guidelines for Customers of Size*
> Customers who encroach upon any part of the neighboring seat(s) may proactively purchase the needed number of seats prior to travel in order to ensure the additional seat(s) is available. The armrest is considered to be the definitive boundary between seats; width between the armrests measures 17 inches. The purchase of additional seats serves as a notification to Southwest of a special seating need, and allows us to adequately plan for the number of seats that will be occupied on the aircraft.  In turn, this helps to ensure we can accommodate all Customers on the flight/aircraft for which they purchased a ticket and avoid asking Customers to relinquish their seats for an unplanned accommodation. Most importantly, it ensures that all Customers onboard have access to safe and comfortable seating. You may contact us for a refund of the cost of additional seating after travel. Customers of size who prefer not to purchase an additional seat in advance have the option of purchasing just one seat and then discussing their seating needs with the Customer Service Agent at their departure gate. If it is determined that a second (or third) seat is needed, they will be accommodated with a complimentary additional seat(s).
> ...



Ok, are you saying that Southwest is allowing people who feel that 1 seat on their airline is not comfortable they can book and pay for an additional seat and then get reimbursed so that they really don't need to pay for an additional seat?  That sound unbelievable!

I always feel that their seats are uncomfortable and I am 6'0 and 175 pounds.  I am sure that if I was significantly taller or heavier I would be even more uncomfortable.


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## taterhed (Oct 31, 2018)

I decided not to reply to the last few posts.

Good info.....but obviously a very sensitive subject for some folks---on both sides of the aisle (or armrest).


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## SmithOp (Oct 31, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Ok, are you saying that Southwest is allowing people who feel that 1 seat on their airline is not comfortable they can book and pay for an additional seat and then get reimbursed so that they really don't need to pay for an additional seat?  That sound unbelievable!
> 
> I always feel that their seats are uncomfortable and I am 6'0 and 175 pounds.  I am sure that if I was significantly taller or heavier I would be even more uncomfortable.



Well I was referring to my height at 6-2, my knees are always crushed into the hard seat frame in front of me.  SWA has one of the tightest spaces, I always book the extra comfort seats on airlines where available.

I’ve never heard of this extra seat program.


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## PigsDad (Oct 31, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> *SWA has one of the tightest spaces*, I always book the extra comfort seats on airlines where available.


Actually, that is completely incorrect.  SWA's seat pitch is a uniform 32-33 inches across their fleet.  American's newer planes is as little as 28".  Frontier and Spirit have some as little as 28".  United is 31-33".  All of these airlines have the same seat width.  Of course, this is comparing standard seats, however, I have seen some of United's Economy Plus seats listed with seat pitches starting at 34".  That is only 1-2" more than the *standard *seat on Southwest!!!

So the exact opposite of your statement is true:  SWA has one of the most generous spaces.

Kurt

ETA:  I just did a quick search and found an article that pretty much agrees with my post (which was just from memory).  Looks like Jet Blue (which I have never flown) tops out the list, followed by Southwest and pre-merger Alaska for the tops in leg room.
https://www.airfarewatchdog.com/blo...th-the-most-legroom-in-economy-and-the-least/


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## rickandcindy23 (Oct 31, 2018)

I have a friend who wanted to fly SW and have two seats without being "of size," and SW wouldn't sell her the extra seat.  She wanted the seat in the middle available for her and hubby to keep their stuff easy to get to while in flight.  SW absolutely refused to sell her that extra seat.  She said that is a deal breaker for flying SW to Hawaii from NY state.


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## Luanne (Oct 31, 2018)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have a friend who wanted to fly SW and have two seats without being "of size," and SW wouldn't sell her the extra seat.  She wanted the seat in the middle available for her and hubby to keep their stuff easy to get to while in flight.  SW absolutely refused to sell her that extra seat.  She said that is a deal breaker for flying SW to Hawaii from NY state.


If they bring a musical instrument they can purchase the extra seat.


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## JohnPaul (Oct 31, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Ok, are you saying that Southwest is allowing people who feel that 1 seat on their airline is not comfortable they can book and pay for an additional seat and then get reimbursed so that they really don't need to pay for an additional seat?  That sound unbelievable!



A person of size can purchase a second seat to insure they have sufficient room on the plane.  If the plane is full then they are out the cost of two seats.  If the plane is NOT full, they can apply for reimbursement of the second seat.


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## PigsDad (Oct 31, 2018)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I have a friend who wanted to fly SW and have two seats without being "of size," and SW wouldn't sell her the extra seat.  She wanted the seat in the middle available for her and hubby to keep their stuff easy to get to while in flight.  SW absolutely refused to sell her that extra seat.  She said that is a deal breaker for flying SW to Hawaii from NY state.


Just curious -- has your friend tried doing that on any other airline?  I would guess no because there are no airlines that will sell you an extra empty seat.  Not sure why they thought Southwest would.

Kurt


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Oct 31, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> Actually, that is completely incorrect.  SWA's seat pitch is a uniform 32-33 inches across their fleet.  American's newer planes is as little as 28".  Frontier and Spirit have some as little as 28".  United is 31-33".  All of these airlines have the same seat width.  Of course, this is comparing standard seats, however, I have seen some of United's Economy Plus seats listed with seat pitches starting at 34".  That is only 1-2" more than the *standard *seat on Southwest!!!
> 
> So the exact opposite of your statement is true:  SWA has one of the most generous spaces.
> 
> ...


It's not just pitch - seat thickness makes a difference.  Almost all pre-merger Alaska planes have the Recaro seats, which provide about two more inches leg room.  Although some feel otherwise, I think the Recaro seats are also more comfortable.


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## Tamaradarann (Oct 31, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> A person of size can purchase a second seat to insure they have sufficient room on the plane.  If the plane is full then they are out the cost of two seats.  If the plane is NOT full, they can apply for reimbursement of the second seat.



Well that is a much better explanation of the policy that I applaud.  That policy is giving the person who needs extra room the room they require, and if the plane is not full, and they couldn't sell the seat anyway, reimburses them for the second seat. 

The way it was first stated in the post (listed below) it sounded like anyone who felt they needed extra room could pay for a second seat and get reimbursed with out regard to the plane occupancy.

_*did you know you can book an extra seat on SW and have 2 seats if one is not comfortable? You book the extra seat, pay for it, and then SW will reimburse you after you fly.  *_


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## triangulum33 (Nov 1, 2018)

They should offer this for everyone then.  
Parents of young ones, the elderly, handicapped, etc. could all argue they could use more space.


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## SmithOp (Nov 1, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> Actually, that is completely incorrect.  SWA's seat pitch is a uniform 32-33 inches across their fleet.  American's newer planes is as little as 28".  Frontier and Spirit have some as little as 28".  United is 31-33".  All of these airlines have the same seat width.  Of course, this is comparing standard seats, however, I have seen some of United's Economy Plus seats listed with seat pitches starting at 34".  That is only 1-2" more than the *standard *seat on Southwest!!!
> 
> So the exact opposite of your statement is true:  SWA has one of the most generous spaces.
> 
> ...



Well I’ve only flown Hawaiian and Jetblue recently, and just started this year on SWA because I have the companion pass so from my recent experience SWA is the tightest fit. Never been on Spirit or Frontier.  Flew United, Delta, and American many years ago when I had business travel.


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## spears2008 (Nov 1, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> A person of size can purchase a second seat to insure they have sufficient room on the plane.  If the plane is full then they are out the cost of two seats.  If the plane is NOT full, they can apply for reimbursement of the second seat.


This was the prior policy, but the current policy is that the extra seat is reimbursed regardless of whether the plane is full or not.


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## spears2008 (Nov 1, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Well that is a much better explanation of the policy that I applaud.  That policy is giving the person who needs extra room the room they require, and if the plane is not full, and they couldn't sell the seat anyway, reimburses them for the second seat.
> 
> The way it was first stated in the post (listed below) it sounded like anyone who felt they needed extra room could pay for a second seat and get reimbursed with out regard to the plane occupancy.
> 
> _*did you know you can book an extra seat on SW and have 2 seats if one is not comfortable? You book the extra seat, pay for it, and then SW will reimburse you after you fly.  *_



I included a copy and paste of the SW policy to avoid any confusion.  I did not want to offend anyone and chose to use the word "comfortable", but the SW policy is based on whether or not a passenger can be seated within the confines of the arm rest.  That information was included in my original post.  

Also, poster JohnPaul was incorrect - stating a old rule SW rule regarding extra seat reimbursement.  The current SW policy will refund extra seats purchased under the customer of size policy regardless of whether the flight is full or not.   

From SW FAQ: "A Customer of size who purchased an additional seat may request a refund of the additional seat purchase after travel by sending us an email request at Southwest.com/feedback or by calling Southwest at 1-800-I-FLY-SWA (1-800-435-9792).  *Even if the flight experiences an oversale (having more confirmed Customers waiting to board than seats on the aircraft) we will refund the cost of the extra seat(s)." *


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 1, 2018)

spears2008 said:


> I included a copy and paste of the SW policy to avoid any confusion.  I did not want to offend anyone and chose to use the word "comfortable", but the SW policy is based on whether or not a passenger can be seated within the confines of the arm rest.  That information was included in my original post.
> 
> Also, poster JohnPaul was incorrect - stating a old rule SW rule regarding extra seat reimbursement.  The current SW policy will refund extra seats purchased under the customer of size policy regardless of whether the flight is full or not.
> 
> From SW FAQ: "A Customer of size who purchased an additional seat may request a refund of the additional seat purchase after travel by sending us an email request at Southwest.com/feedback or by calling Southwest at 1-800-I-FLY-SWA (1-800-435-9792).  *Even if the flight experiences an oversale (having more confirmed Customers waiting to board than seats on the aircraft) we will refund the cost of the extra seat(s)." *



Using the term "uncomfortable" as well as "whether of not the flight was full or not for reimbursement" certainly does confuse the issue.  As I mentioned before, if the flight is not full and someone feels they need a second seat since they don't fit within the confines of the 17" seat, I certainly applaud Southwest reimbursing the person since the seats would not have been sold anyway.  However, for a full or overbooked flight there are concerns from my perspective.

Although we don't believe we fit the need for a second seat criteria, my husband and I love having the middle seat empty when we fly, he sits by the window and I the isle.  If there is reimbursement without regard to whether the flight is full or not people who marginally fit into the seat will get 2 seats.  We know a couple where the husband has broken one of our plastic patio chairs when trying to fit into it.  He would quality for a second seat.  However, I know that if he knew he could definitely get reimbursed for a second seat he would say he needed it, however, if the flight was full he would have been out the money for the second seat he would squeeze.  

While booking 2 seats for 1 person on line in not policeable, are gate personnel going to be placed in a position to review a person's decision to book 2 seats or approve or disapprove a request for 2 seats at the gate?  Are gate personnel going to be placed in a position of weight shaming?  Are they going to have a seat model like the carry-on bag model for people to sit in, or are they going to place the gate personnel in a position to use their own judgement?

What effect will people booking 2 seats on line have on the availability of seats and the pricing of seats. We know that Southwest prices their seats based on the number of seats that have been already sold.  More seats sold raises the prices, less seats sold lowers the prices.  The pricing of seats and the number of seats sold are how Southwest makes its money.  The don't charge for bags or change fees like other airlines.  Having less seats to sell will effect the Southwest bottom line which ultimately will either effect their seat pricing or their possibility of going out of business.

What happens when flights are overbooked?  If 2 passengers need to be bumped will they bump 2 paying customers, or 1 person who needs 2 seats?  On a full flight, if a person books only 1 seat and then comes up to the gate and asks for a second seat will they bump a passenger to accommodate the person needing a second seat but not identifying that when making their original booking?

I believe that many of these concerns will only be a problem if the "FREE" second seat catches on for those that are marginally in "need" of a second seat instead of those that are really in need of a second seat, and not just want a second seat.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 3, 2018)

spears2008 said:


> I included a copy and paste of the SW policy to avoid any confusion.  I did not want to offend anyone and chose to use the word "comfortable", but the SW policy is based on whether or not a passenger can be seated within the confines of the arm rest.  That information was included in my original post.
> 
> Also, poster JohnPaul was incorrect - stating a old rule SW rule regarding extra seat reimbursement.  The current SW policy will refund extra seats purchased under the customer of size policy regardless of whether the flight is full or not.
> 
> From SW FAQ: "A Customer of size who purchased an additional seat may request a refund of the additional seat purchase after travel by sending us an email request at Southwest.com/feedback or by calling Southwest at 1-800-I-FLY-SWA (1-800-435-9792).  *Even if the flight experiences an oversale (having more confirmed Customers waiting to board than seats on the aircraft) we will refund the cost of the extra seat(s)." *



We just flew from Islip to Fort Lauderdale on Southwest yesterday.  I spoke to one of the gate agents about the reimbursement policy for those that want a second seat.  She indicated that indeed the policy changed and passengers now can get reimbursed for second seats without regard to availability.  However, she said that she scrutinizes the "need" for a second seat of passengers that requests second seats whether it is on line or if they approach her before the flight.  If they don't appear to need one she will not let them have the second seat.

Furthermore, she indicated that when she sees a passenger who she feels needs a second seat, if they don't already have one, she will ask them if they want one.  The approach seemed to be one in which they are concerned about the comfort of all passengers as well as possible conflict between passengers that encroach upon or are encroached on in adjacent seats that flight attendants will ultimately will need to deal with.  She said that it is very uncomfortable approaching someone about this issue, but it is her job to do so.  If all Southwest personnel are as dedicated as this one in scrutinizing those that request a second seat, my concerns are considerable reduced since only those that really need the second seat will be getting one.


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## dioxide45 (Nov 3, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Ok, are you saying that Southwest is allowing people who feel that 1 seat on their airline is not comfortable they can book and pay for an additional seat and then get reimbursed so that they really don't need to pay for an additional seat?  That sound unbelievable!
> 
> I always feel that their seats are uncomfortable and I am 6'0 and 175 pounds.  I am sure that if I was significantly taller or heavier I would be even more uncomfortable.


That isn't the purpose of the COS policy. It is meant for those that can not sit in a seat and not take up space in the adjacent seat. Also if the arm rest will not lower.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 4, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> That isn't the purpose of the COS policy. It is meant for those that can not sit in a seat and not take up space in the adjacent seat. Also if the arm rest will not lower.



Yes, we are beyond the misunderstanding part of the discussion on this tread.  Please read my  November 2nd experience with Southwest Airlines airlines.  By the way what does COS stand for?


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## dioxide45 (Nov 4, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Yes, we are beyond the misunderstanding part of the discussion on this tread.  Please read my  November 2nd experience with Southwest Airlines airlines.  By the way what does COS stand for?


COS=Customer of Size


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## TheTimeTraveler (Nov 4, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Yes, we are beyond the misunderstanding part of the discussion on this tread.  Please read my  November 2nd experience with Southwest Airlines airlines.  By the way what does COS stand for?





Customer Of Size




.


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 4, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> Just curious -- has your friend tried doing that on any other airline?  I would guess no because there are no airlines that will sell you an extra empty seat.  Not sure why they thought Southwest would.
> 
> Kurt


Well, they usually drive with their two kids to Orlando from NY state.  She is a TUG member, and so maybe I will have her come to this discussion.  

When she mentioned that she tried to get an extra seat on SW to Orlando, I realized I would not be able to do the same to Hawaii, and so we will continue to use our Chase Sapphire Reserve points for those wonderful first class seats.  

I actually hoped SW would offer first class on their planes to Hawaii.  An isle and window seat for the two of us would be ideal because we don't care about the first class service, just the roominess of the seat.  Rick gets up often, and I stay put on airplanes.  

Rick doesn't like the middle seat.  We have had the companion pass for two years, and next month is the end of that wonderful benefit.  I don't know how much we will fly SW in the future.


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## Tamaradarann (Nov 4, 2018)

dioxide45 said:


> COS=Customer of Size



Is that a standard abbreviation or something that is made up on the fly.  Never heard of it before, but I like to spell things out so everyone gets and stays on the same page in a discussion.


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## canesfan (Nov 4, 2018)

I asked a flight attendant on a recent SW flight about Hawaii. She didn’t think December but said hopefully 1st quarter. From her answer I’m a little worried about waiting it out for my March trip.


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## WalnutBaron (Dec 20, 2018)

According to this article from _The Points Guy_, it looks like we're still weeks--if not months--away from Southwest entering the Hawaii market.


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## taterhed (Dec 20, 2018)

Hmm I think I've heard this somewhere before......

I wish them luck, but better to get it right the first time.


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## GT75 (Dec 20, 2018)

canesfan said:


> From her answer I’m a little worried about waiting it out for my March trip.



I gave up on waiting and booked my flights for HI in February/March next year.    Now, I am very glad that I did.


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## BDMX2 (Dec 20, 2018)

Gah...still not sure if I should keep holding out for late June flights.  We have a SWA companion pass and a bunch of points, so it really would be great for us if they started flying by then.  I hate this waiting game!  I might think about getting to the west coast from here in New England on SWA and then another carrier from there...I'll have to do some poking around and see if that would make a big difference in the cost or not.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 20, 2018)

GT75 said:


> I gave up on waiting and booked my flights for HI in February/March next year.    Now, I am very glad that I did.



I just booked my return flight from Maui with Hawaiian Airlines yesterday.  I booked our flight out to Honolulu and after our stay in Honolulu to Maui months months ago, but I was waiting for the required miles to come down before I booked the return flight.  Even though we need to take the 1/2 hour flight from Maui to Honolulu first, you can't beat the free direct flight from Honolulu to JFK


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## GT75 (Dec 20, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> Even though we need to take the 1/2 hour flight from Maui to Honolulu first, you can't beat the free direct flight from Honolulu to JFK



We are doing something similar but we have a direct flight to Atlanta from Honolulu starting with the hop from Maui to Honolulu first.   I did have to pay for that flight, but I was able to use points to and also for the inter island flights.    I discovered how to book the inter island flights using points on AA via TUG (thank you TUG members)


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 20, 2018)

BDMX2 said:


> Gah...still not sure if I should keep holding out for late June flights.  We have a SWA companion pass and a bunch of points, so it really would be great for us if they started flying by then.  I hate this waiting game!  I might think about getting to the west coast from here in New England on SWA and then another carrier from there...I'll have to do some poking around and see if that would make a big difference in the cost or not.


If you want to fly in June, I suggest you get yourself an Alaska Airlines VISA card and nail down that companion fare right away. 

Then you can book yourself and a companion a flight from Logan to any of the islands.  You pay the ticketed fare, and your companion flies for ~$110 extra, round trip.  You can book preferred seating (anything but first class), and the companion fare is the same ~$110.  

Moreover, you will probably have only two direct flights each direction.  One from Logan to a west coast portal (likely Seattle), and then Seattle to your destination island.  Same thing on the return. 

If you don't want to use the companion fare feature long term, then use the card for this trip, and then cancel.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 20, 2018)

BDMX2 said:


> Gah...still not sure if I should keep holding out for late June flights.  We have a SWA companion pass and a bunch of points, so it really would be great for us if they started flying by then.  I hate this waiting game!  I might think about getting to the west coast from here in New England on SWA and then another carrier from there...I'll have to do some poking around and see if that would make a big difference in the cost or not.



I don't know about SWA companion passes, however, some airline travel perks are not be good for flights outside the Continental US.  I concur with your thinking about flying to the West Coast from Ne England on SWA and then another carrier from there.  I don't know how it works with flights from New England but I know from Long Island I can't get non-stop to the West Coast.  I need to stop at least once before a flight out West.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 20, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I don't know about SWA companion passes, however, some airline travel perks are not be good for flights outside the Continental US.  I concur with your thinking about flying to the West Coast from Ne England on SWA and then another carrier from there.  I don't know how it works with flights from New England but I know from Long Island I can't get non-stop to the West Coast.  I need to stop at least once before a flight out West.


One problem with that approach is that you wind up flying on two itineraries.  And if there is a problem with flights, you can get left hanging.  So let's say that you are flying to a west coast portal on a Friday, with an early afternoon arrival.  Maybe you have two to three hours layover before you catch a connecting flight to, on your other ticket.  

But then there's a problem on your outbound flight.  Mechanical problems, bad weather, whatever, and suddenly you can't make the connecting that flight.  If you're booked on two itineraries you're screwed.  Your first carrier guarantees you transportation to the connecting location, and that's all.  They will rebook you to that location in accordance with their policies - and if that means you can't make the connecting flight means nothing to them. Meanwhile, the connecting airline will simply treat you as a No-show, and may cancel your ticket, including the return flight. 

If you book transportation to Hawaii as one itinerary, if there is a problem on the first flight, the airline is still obligated to get you to your final destination. The only time I break up an itinerary is if I'm going to have at least a day on the ground in the stopover location.


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## Luanne (Dec 20, 2018)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> One problem with that approach is that you wind up flying on two itineraries.  And if there is a problem with flights, you can get left hanging.  So let's say that you are flying to a west coast portal on a Friday, with an early afternoon arrival.  Maybe you have two to three hours layover before you catch a connecting flight to, on your other ticket.
> 
> But then there's a problem on your outbound flight.  Mechanical problems, bad weather, whatever, and suddenly you can't make the connecting that flight.  If you're booked on two itineraries you're screwed.  Your first carrier guarantees you transportation to the connecting location, and that's all.  They will rebook you to that location in accordance with their policies - and if that means you can't make the connecting flight means nothing to them. Meanwhile, the connecting airline will simply treat you as a No-show, and may cancel your ticket, including the return flight.
> 
> If you book transportation to Hawaii as one itinerary, if there is a problem on the first flight, the airline is still obligated to get you to your final destination. The only time I break up an itinerary is if I'm going to have at least a day on the ground in the stopover location.


We do this, but break the trip up by a few days.  We fly SW from home to the San Francisco Bah Area, spend a couple of nights in San Francisco, then fly on to Hawaii on another airline.  It's two roundtrip flights.


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## LannyPC (Dec 21, 2018)

Just out of curiosity...  I've seen many threads on these boards about Southwest Airlines (WN) going, or planning to go to Hawaii.  Question is Why are so many people here so gung-ho about this?  What's wrong with the other airlines that go there from continental USA and Canada?  There are plenty that do so so there is a reasonable amount of competition.

I'm not slagging WN.  I'm just wondering why so many are anticipating/hoping and all excited about the prospect of WN flying to Hawaii.


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## canesfan (Dec 21, 2018)

Many of us have the SW companion pass.  Also, it’s expected to cause a price war to Hawaii with SW in that market. Airlines already flying there have decreased their prices in anticipation.


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## PigsDad (Dec 21, 2018)

LannyPC said:


> Just out of curiosity...  I've seen many threads on these boards about Southwest Airlines (WN) going, or planning to go to Hawaii.  Question is Why are so many people here so gung-ho about this?  What's wrong with the other airlines that go there from continental USA and Canada?  There are plenty that do so so there is a reasonable amount of competition.
> 
> I'm not slagging WN.  I'm just wondering why so many are anticipating/hoping and all excited about the prospect of WN flying to Hawaii.


One reason is that SW has better leg room than most other airlines without having to purchase premium seating.  Plus no luggage fees, no change / cancellation fees.

Kurt


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## PamMo (Dec 21, 2018)

Tamaradarann said:


> I don't know about SWA companion passes, however, some airline travel perks are not be good for flights outside the Continental US...



I've used the companion pass several times to fly with my husband to the Caribbean and Mexico, so I can't imagine it not working for flights to Hawaii. Southwest makes it SO easy to book those companion flights. I've got a million frequent flyer miles with American, and can't ever get decent flights with points.


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## Tamaradarann (Dec 21, 2018)

PigsDad said:


> One reason is that SW has better leg room than most other airlines without having to purchase premium seating.  Plus no luggage fees, no change / cancellation fees.
> 
> Kurt


The no luggage and no change fees are the benefits that I like the most.  We travel with 2 checked bags each so on Hawaiian Airlines that is $140 more each way.  The no change fees are also great.  We have changed our Southwest flights for a number of reasons:  Bag whether that MAY cause delays, better rates for the same or different flight on the same day, extended stay on trips, changing the destination on trips.  With change fees running $150-$200 each ticket that is $300-$400 saved.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 5, 2019)

Here's the latest update from _The Points Guy_:


Southwest has received approval from the FAA for their ETOPS plan, a crucial step in the approval process.
The airline still must complete validation flights before the final ETOPS approval is given.
*According to the Chicago Business Times, sources say that the earliest that service could begin is March or April.*
Here's a link to the full article.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 9, 2019)

It appears that Southwest's application to initiate flights to Hawaii is being delayed by the government shutdown, since the FAA considers ETOPS certification as a non-essential project.


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## BDMX2 (Jan 10, 2019)

WalnutBaron said:


> It appears that Southwest's application to initiate flights to Hawaii is being delayed by the government shutdown, since the FAA considers ETOPS certification as a non-essential project.



UGH


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## BDMX2 (Jan 31, 2019)

Woo hoo...getting close!!!  I'm very optimistic about our late June travel reading this!
https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-hawaii-airline-update/


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## dougp26364 (Jan 31, 2019)

Chrispee said:


> Is the limited kitchen worse than the Maui Ocean Club?  We do like to eat a lot of our own meals so maybe the risk of a Waiohai parking lot view would be worth it.





BDMX2 said:


> Woo hoo...getting close!!!  I'm very optimistic about our late June travel reading this!
> https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-hawaii-airline-update/



It would be nice.im making plans for March of 2020 and would like to return to Hawaii but, from our location, flying is cost prohibitive. I’d love to get an idea pricing from SWA before I start reserving units.


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## BDMX2 (Feb 1, 2019)

Another article here, with more analysis on the timing and the potential to miss the March timeframe: https://simpleflying.com/southwest-march-hawaii-flights/


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## mjm1 (Feb 1, 2019)

BDMX2 said:


> Another article here, with more analysis on the timing and the potential to miss the March timeframe: https://simpleflying.com/southwest-march-hawaii-flights/



Thanks for sharing. I especially like the comment that they may eventually add a route from Las Vegas. Otherwise we would have to fly to one of the CA cities first. We won’t hold our breath for it to happen, but will be happy if it does happen.

Best regards.

Mike


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## canesfan (Feb 1, 2019)

We are hoping for Phoenix. I hope it’s worth the wait!


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