# London/Paris/Rome?



## radiojon

Looking ahead to a 20th Anniversary celebration for me and my wife in the coming weeks and we're thinking of a London/Paris/Rome vacation over 9-10 days or so.  I rarely see last-minute options for Europe (save for a random Italian countryside rentals every now and then) here ... are there many to be had at all?  I've rented several Wyndham properties here in the US from Tuggers, but wondering if there are also options abroad?

Feedback appreciated!

- Mark


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## Beaglemom3

I'm assuming, London first and then to Paris by Eurostar ? Then, onto Rome by flight ? 

Do your dates include travel dates to & from ?


I think that it would be extremely difficulty to coordinate a trip like this with timeshares unless you are very, very lucky. Not saying that it's impossible, just don't know.

I do know of tour trips that can span this, but again, not timieshare-type accommodations.

http://www.costcotravel.com/Vacation-Packages/Europe/Offers/EURLONPARROMDAY20110801


http://www.trafalgar.com/usa/london-paris-and-rome-moderate-2013

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi..._to_London_Paris_and_Rome-London_England.html


If this can be done, then I'll be very impressed.


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## SMHarman

Probably better to use Hotwire (or similar European products) to get the rooms with just two of you.  

With that much moving around you will be travelling light so making a game time call of where you lay your head will be less of a hassle.

Fly out of Paris or Rome as the taxes back to the US are lower, fly into the UK as there is no tax to fly in, just to fly out.

You should be able to get an open jaw ticket from any US carrier to do that.

Do you really want to do all three, three days in each, less than that with travel between them, though if you travel leisure first from London to Paris on the Eurostar there is nice lunch or dinner on the train.  Worth it for 20 years.


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## Beaglemom3

Forgot about the high surcharge flying into the UK.


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## Passepartout

To divide 10 days into 3 cities with travel time between them, you won't see much but the inside of trains/planes/airports/train stations.

Drop one city from your itinerary and use nice hotels near city centers. Timeshares in Europe tend to be in more rural areas and are (generally) not of similar quality to U.S. TSs. Plus- as others have said, stringing 3 together on that tight a schedule would require a lottery winner's luck.

After 20 years, you deserve more than a whirlwind tour.

Jim


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## SMHarman

Beaglemom3 said:


> Forgot about the high surcharge flying into the UK.



It's actually flying OUT OF the UK.


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## SMHarman

Passepartout said:


> To divide 10 days into 3 cities with travel time between them, you won't see much but the inside of trains/planes/airports/train stations.
> 
> Drop one city from your itinerary and use nice hotels near city centers. Timeshares in Europe tend to be in more rural areas and are (generally) not of similar quality to U.S. TSs. Plus- as others have said, stringing 3 together on that tight a schedule would require a lottery winner's luck.
> 
> After 20 years, you deserve more than a whirlwind tour.
> 
> Jim


Indeed, the equivilant US Itinerary would be 10 days with 3 days in Chicago, Boston and New York, they are about the right distance apart.

Chicago Boston is about 1000mi Paris Rome is 1400Km
Boston NY is about 225mi, London Paris is 282mi


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## Beaglemom3

Passepartout said:


> To divide 10 days into 3 cities with travel time between them, you won't see much but the inside of trains/planes/airports/train stations.
> 
> Drop one city from your itinerary and use nice hotels near city centers. Timeshares in Europe tend to be in more rural areas and are (generally) not of similar quality to U.S. TSs. Plus- as others have said, stringing 3 together on that tight a schedule would require a lottery winner's luck.
> 
> After 20 years, you deserve more than a whirlwind tour.
> 
> Jim



  Great advice here. I wanted to say that originally, but thought I'd just keep to the itinerary as presented, however, it's advice that's needed to be said.

  I'd drop Rome and see that on another trip by itself.

  Because of Eurostar, London & Paris are "do-able" to the extent that you'll just see highlights, but at least you'll have some quality time to see them.


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## Beaglemom3

SMHarman said:


> It's actually flying OUT OF the UK.



 And into it using FF miles is what I meant to post. 

ETA: BA Avios miles is a killer.  http://thepointsguy.com/2013/11/british-airways-gets-sued-for-outrageous-fuel-surcharges/


Sorry, I'm _very distracted. _We've been told that we must leave work by 3 pm because of the worsening weather conditions.

I am leaving the PROC (People's Republic of Cambridge) now. Will have the Beaglemobile guide me home.


-



-


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## SMHarman

Beaglemom3 said:


> And into it using FF miles. Trust me, I go yearly.
> 
> 
> ETA: BA Avios miles is a killer.  http://thepointsguy.com/2013/11/british-airways-gets-sued-for-outrageous-fuel-surcharges/


You are mixing up the fuel surcharge and the taxes.
The tax is a *departure *tax
The fuel surcharge is some random creation of the UK airlines to claim that the ticket price is low yet keep the fare high.
A NyLon ticket in the winter looks like 
Outbound Fare $140
Outbound Fuel Surcharge $140
Inbound Fare $140 
Inbound Fuel Surcharge $140
Inbound Departure Tax $100
US 9/11 and JFK Fees $20 or so
Total Fare $680

So if you change the inbound to out of Paris the departure tax falls away.

If you are paying with Avios then only the $140 fares are covered leaving you $280 fuel surcharge + $20 US taxes + $100 UK taxes $400 a ticket in out of pocket costs.  Spending 50000 Avios to save $280.

As a Bostonian you are better using your Avios points on AA flying up and down the East Coast to Florida, Cancun and the Carribean.  AA has no fuel surcharge, the distance based system and high priced tickets to many of those destinations mean you can get great value for your Avios ponts on them.  E.g BOS MIA is 10000 points and $2.50 round trip.  Thats probably a $200+ fare that you can now do 5 times instead of the TATL ticket for 50k.
http://www.britishairways.com/travel/avios-calculator/public/en_us


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## Beaglemom3

SMHarman said:


> You are mixing up the fuel surcharge and the taxes.
> The tax is a *departure *tax
> The fuel surcharge is some random creation of the UK airlines to claim that the ticket price is low yet keep the fare high.
> A NyLon ticket in the winter looks like
> Outbound Fare $140
> Outbound Fuel Surcharge $140
> Inbound Fare $140
> Inbound Fuel Surcharge $140
> Inbound Departure Tax $100
> US 9/11 and JFK Fees $20 or so
> Total Fare $680
> 
> So if you change the inbound to out of Paris the departure tax falls away.
> 
> If you are paying with Avios then only the $140 fares are covered leaving you $280 fuel surcharge + $20 US taxes + $100 UK taxes $400 a ticket in out of pocket costs.
> 
> As a Bostonian you are better using your Avios points on AA flying up and down the East Coast to Florida, Cancun and the Carribean.  AA has no fuel surcharge, the distance based system and high priced tickets to many of those destinations mean you can get great value for your Avios ponts on them.




 Yes, you are correct. Again, we're in blizzard-like conditions now and I'm only skimming content and posting without having read with any comprehension.  
It has gotten very, very bad here in the last hour.
Thank you for the clarification. I should know this as I saved a a lot of fees by departing Shannon. 

BYE - Gotta' go. This is nerve-wracking.


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## SMHarman

Beaglemom3 said:


> Yes, you are correct. Again, we're in blizzard-like conditions now and I'm only skimming content and posting without having read with any comprehension.
> It has gotten very, very bad here in the last hour.
> Thank you for the clarification. I should know this as I saved a a lot of fees by departing Shannon.
> 
> BYE - Gotta' go. This is nerve-wracking.


A great article from your source about short haul gems with Avios
http://thepointsguy.com/2012/04/maximizing-british-airways-avios-series-distance-based-awards/

Good luck with the weather and the shovel.


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## radiojon

Wow, many thanks for the quick responses!  Yeah, I was a little concerned about having enough time for all three, but most of the guided tours we've seen for London-Paris-Rome are all in that 10-day range (some less), so it seems that's a "standard" time frame for this kind of vacation; maybe we'll add on a day to the start or end of the trip if everything works out.

Good to know about the timeshare resorts being mostly outside of town -- definitely not a good option for this kind of trip.  I'll keep digging, though, just in case.  We've always had good luck snagging good deals on this board, so I was hopeful some may be found in Europe.

Also trying to find a trick to affordable Business Class airfare, at least for the long-haul flights.  The plan is to fly to London, train to Paris, fly to Rome, then fly back home.  I welcome any insider tips/strategies on this part, as well.

Again, many thanks for the all the suggestions!  Please keep 'em coming!

- Mark


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## Passepartout

Well, if you are trying to compare a timeshare do-it-yourself vacation with a packaged tour, the tour will win every time. They can enter into deals with hotels, flights, rails, entrances to attractions, restaurants, etc. etc. etc. You will see more in less time with a guided tour than you can see on your own. However, there is the, "If it's Tuesday, this must be Paris" thing, combined with the pace being at that of the slowest person on/off the bus.

Don't get me wrong. I have been on several tours, and for some places where there is a language situation you are not comfortable with, or you simply want to see the most attractions at the lowest cost in the least amount of time, with the least hassle about logistics (how to get from point A to point 2, and where to sleep) you can't beat 'em. But they are not a relaxing way to travel and certainly don't give you the flavor of a different culture.

Oh, without a bunch of frequent flyer miles, the good deals on business class airfare are few and far between.

Jim


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## Talent312

I've done Rome, Florence & Venice in 10 days by high-speed rail.
But for major cities, I'd cut this down to no more than 2 cities... 
(I could spend 1 week in Rome alone).

Day of arrival -- orientation at best.
Days 2 - 4 --  for one city.
Day 5 -- travel to next city.
Day 6 - 9 -- for 2nd city.
Maybe one day for an excursion out of town.

Out of town excursions: 
London -- Stonehenge, Bath, Stratford or Cambridge.
Paris  -- Castles & wine in the Loire Valley.
Rome -- Tuscany or Pompeii.

IMHO....

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2


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## NJDave

SMHarman said:


> A great article from your source about short haul gems with Avios
> http://thepointsguy.com/2012/04/maximizing-british-airways-avios-series-distance-based-awards/
> 
> Good luck with the weather and the shovel.



Off topic but am I correct that I could fly from JFK on American to the Caribbean for only 20,000 Avois miles plus taxes (and no fuel charges).  Bermuda would only be 15,000?


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## NJDave

radiojon said:


> Looking ahead to a 20th Anniversary celebration for me and my wife in the coming weeks and we're thinking of a London/Paris/Rome vacation over 9-10 days or so.  I rarely see last-minute options for Europe (save for a random Italian countryside rentals every now and then) here ... are there many to be had at all?  I've rented several Wyndham properties here in the US from Tuggers, but wondering if there are also options abroad?
> 
> Feedback appreciated!
> 
> - Mark



You could try Priceline or Hotwire especially for London and Paris.  Betterbidding.com provides some guidance on how to know what hotel you are receiving before you bid / accept the reservation.  

I agree with others that you could go to two cities and take side trips from those locations.


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## egg1701

Beaglemom3 said:


> I'm assuming, London first and then to Paris by Eurostar ? Then, onto Rome by flight ?
> 
> Do your dates include travel dates to & from ?
> 
> 
> I think that it would be extremely difficulty to coordinate a trip like this with timeshares unless you are very, very lucky. Not saying that it's impossible, just don't know.
> 
> I do know of tour trips that can span this, but again, not timieshare-type accommodations.
> 
> http://www.costcotravel.com/Vacation-Packages/Europe/Offers/EURLONPARROMDAY20110801
> 
> 
> http://www.trafalgar.com/usa/london-paris-and-rome-moderate-2013
> 
> http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi..._to_London_Paris_and_Rome-London_England.html
> 
> 
> If this can be done, then I'll be very impressed.


It can't be done. you already lose a whole day with air travel six hours time difference and you need to rest a day from the flight.  Hell even two weeks would not be enough for a 3 country hopping.


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## PStreet1

As an alternative, you could easily spend 10 days in Rome with side trips to Florence on the easily accessible train and to Pompii and Sorento (again, on the easily accessible train).  It's also easy to take the train to Venice.  (We've driven in Italy and taken trains; both are good alternatives--just depends on your preferences.)  

We've stayed in hotels in Italy, timeshares (in Assissi and the outskirts of Rome) and apartments we found on VRBO.  In my opinion, timeshares are the worst option because as others have pointed out, they aren't right in the heart of town.

Like others, I think splitting the time between London and Paris would be very enjoyable--and there's certainly more than enough to do to keep you busy in either, let alone both, for a couple of weeks.  If you fly into Paris and chunnel to London and back to Paris, you'll save a lot of money on airfare, and you'll get to experience the Chunnel.  We've stayed at the Allen House, in hotels and in apartments in London--all were delightful.  We've stayed in big hotel chains/a "small hotel with a wishing well"/bed and breakfasts/and apartments in Paris--and like London, each experience had its own charm, and I'd do any of them again.

I think you'll have fonder memories of the trip if you confine yourselves to Italy for the whole time or to London and Paris for the whole time.  If you do all three, things will tend to "run together" in your mind--the "which fountain is that in the picture?"/ "is that Westminister or Notre Dame?" sort of thing.


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## cp73

PStreet1 said:


> If you fly into Paris and chunnel to London and back to Paris, you'll save a lot of money on airfare, and you'll get to experience the Chunnel.



How much do you believe you save by doing this? Don't you also have to consider the return fare on the chunnel? When I looked at this I thought it was less expensive to fly into London and then fly out of Paris.


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## PStreet1

Chunnel fares can be very inexpensive if you buy them quite a ways in advance.  The extra fees for flying out of England are substantial, in my opinion, which is why I refuse to use my British Airways miles for transatlantic flights; no matter where you are flying from, they try to route you through England so you have to pay the taxes and fees.  For that reason, I use other carriers who don't force me into England.  (See SMHarmon's post above.)  My experience has been that it costs me just about the same actual money to use my miles on British Airways (and be forced into England) as it does to simply buy the ticket; therefore, I fly into and out of other European cities.

However, you are correct that the tax is on getting out of England, not flying into England, so you could avoid the round trip on the chunnel if you wanted.


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## Ken555

FWIW, I would much prefer to spend more time in Florence and the Lake Como region (I stayed at Bellagio and it was a great central location to explore the lake) rather than Rome or Venice. No way would I ever make Rome a home base and take day trips from there - Rome is just a big city and while a few days is one thing, making it the base for 10 days is not for me. As for London, be sure to have dinner at least once at http://www.veeraswamy.com  (the absolute best Indian food...though expensive...). 


Sent from my iPad


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## SMHarman

Just to add the Chunnel is the car train. Eurostar is the passenger train. Don't book the wrong one. 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk


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## BJRSanDiego

radiojon said:


> Looking ahead to a 20th Anniversary celebration for me and my wife in the coming weeks and we're thinking of a London/Paris/Rome vacation over 9-10 days or so.
> - Mark



First, congratulations on your Anniversary!  Also, congratulations on your thoughts of doing something really special.  

I think that trying to do 3 countries in 9-10 days will be a bit hectic and perhaps stressful.  Yes, it will be memorable too, but IMHO it is a bit too ambitious.   You will lose a day each time when you check out, travel, go through immigration and check in.  So it is almost 3 countries in 6-7 days.

If you are going in the next month or so, the weather is likely to be a bit chilly.  So, sitting out at sidewalk cafes in Paris and Rome may be a challenge.  

I "did" France in 10  to 14 days in a rental car once and it was fun but still a bit much.  I recommend no less than a week in Paris and a week in Rome.  (London?  I like the UK but the city of London isn't my favorite.)   I have also spent 10 days in just Paris and never got bored.

People who travel to Hawaii kind of say the same sort of thing - - for 9 or 10 days only 2 island or 1 island, but not 3!  

I have been to London, Paris and Rome but not all on the same trip.  Those trips were enjoyable and memorable, but because of the differences (cultural, food, environment, safety, legal, language, etc.) I was never 100 percent relaxed as I am when I travel to some place like Hawaii.  

Just an alternate opinion...  Hope that you have a great anniversary.:whoopie:


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## DeniseM

Here is an easier alternative - how about looking for a last minute discount on a European River cruise.  You can see major cities in several countries in 8-19  days with very little stress.

www.vacationstogo.com


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## PStreet1

SMHarman said:


> Just to add the Chunnel is the car train. Eurostar is the passenger train. Don't book the wrong one.
> 
> Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk



Opps!  Yes, train.


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## ilene13

I would cut the trip to either to two of the cities or do one country for the ten days.  Italy is my personal favorite.  Having been to Italy many times for our 35th we flew to Venice.  Spent time there, took the train to Florence, spent 4 days.  Then we picked up a rental car and spent 7 days doing the Italian and French Rivieras.  This coming fall we are doing a 15 day trip of Spain.  10 days is nice but 3 days per city is very limiting.  Choose an area and thoroughly get to know it-- you'll have more fun.


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## MarcoMar

Sounds like a good idea, I've been to Paris last year and I'm planning to visit Rome this summer. For Paris - prepare yourself that everything is expensive. Accommodation (we stayed at a hostel, but we took a double room) and restaurants especially. A good one was Chatlet, if was near Boulevard Poissonnier.


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## levatino

I agree with what others are saying here.  Yes, some tours do it.  They are experienced in coordinating logistics and have native speakers who know how to maximize travels.  You are going to spend a higher percent of your trip in transit, learning as you go.  But hey, if you are young, active and want to cross things off your bucket list, go for it!


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## pedro47

Suggestion pick three (3) travel agencies and tell them what you want.  You are looking at some major expensives (hotel, airlines tickets, and excurisions costs) . 

Personally we loved Paris and Rome over London.

I would also looked at a transatlantic cruise to London or Paris and then a cruise to Rome. This could saved you some money.

Also made sure your passports and shots are up to date and please purchase eros for your trip to Rome in advance or from an ATM in Rome. This will save you money.  You much use the eros in Rome. 

Enjoy your trip to Europe.


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## BillC

I did a trip last year to Rome, Florence & Paris and rented apartments in each location.  I found many options on websites such as www.homeaway.com, www.vrbo.com, and www.airbnb.com.  I believe that each apartment cost no more than 90 Euros/night and it was a great way to do this trip.  Just my 2 cents!


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## elaine

If you REALLY want to see those 3 cities and you think there won't be another trip in the next 5 years, go for it. All are wonderful cities. I really recommend 12 days if you can swing it. We just did all 3 this summer--flew into Rome then to P, Eurostar to L and back home. Here is an easy DIY way to do it and still have some "tour" elements:
I am going to start in L and end in R b/c it's cheaper to fly into L than out of L---but not a ton more, maybe a few 100. Everything I recommend I  have done--if I put a * by it, it means I researched it and recommend, but did not personally do. We usually travel with kids and Mum, and are fairly budget conscious--but realize that Europe is $$$. We combine simple DIY with organized day tours. We typically book day tour via Viator.com. They are a US booking agency for local tours. I start a trip by look to see what they offer in the city I am traveling to--sometimes I use a day tour, sometime I DIY.
Fly into LHR, get to your hotel in the Victoria Station area--we just use the tube--45 minutes and cheap. We have stayed at Doubletree Victoria and Park Plaza. We chose this area b/c of good transport connections and lots of mid-range good restaurants, and it seemed safe (with kids and 72 yr old Mum). You can also stay in other areas and take Paddington Express*. Victoria Coach Station (around the corner from the Victoria tube--don't go to the wrong place) is the meeting point for lots of tours (but many will also do hotel pick up).

We always get a day pass and use public transport. We took the tube to Tower of London. Also took the red double-decker (city) bus to Westminster and Big Ben and another bus in the pm from V area to Waterloo area then over TowerBridge and then hopped on the tube back--you see the same sights as the HO-Ho and it's included in day pass. We walked (easy and safe) to Buckingham Palace. DH and DD16 took a day tour to Stonehenge, Windsor Castle and Oxford and loved it.

Take the tube to the Eurostar and train to Paris. We stayed in Disney PAris Marriott timeshare b/c we had 6 persons, plus another family of 6 from the UK. So no hotel recommends for P. P is easy to navigate yourself, lus there are many tours--check on viator.com. The batobus* that has hop on-off would be good. If you are at all athletic, I recommend the FAt Tire bike tours for Paris.* We did the tour 2X in Barcelona and loved it.

Fly from P to Rome. We used Easyjet ($100PP including 1 checked bag each). In Rome, you can take the express train* to Termini Station. We have staye at Eurostar International and also at Artemide. We preferred Artemide--lovely terrace on top. You can walk from train and also walk to Trevi, SP steps, Colo. Another option is to book a hotel on a HO-HO or Ciao, Roma bus route. I like the HO-Hos for Rome. We do not take city buses or subway, as I heard lots of pick pockets on those. Viator has many day tours, but Rome is super easy to DIY. We have also trained from Rome to Florence and reverse. In Florence we did the Tuscany in a day tour with viator---absolutely wonderful. Toured Siena, San Girmango (sp?), great lunch/wine at farmhouse/vineyard, and then quick visit to Pisa--all for around $100PP. I really wanted to do the day trip to Orvieto* from Rome, but no time.

Well, that's a lot of detailed info--as you can see, it can be a bit of a whirlwind trip. I would not do a bus tour unless you are very uncomfortable with foreign travel--and if you et a bus tour--try for a "leisure oace" tour which gives you time to explore palces on your own. If you do your research and you pad extra trim for connections, L,P,R with a DIY trip and a few day tours for places hard to get to by public transport (hill towns in Italy) can easily be done. 
Lastly, Business class over would be really nice*--but I see not necessary for the return, as they are all day flights--I would just pay the small fee for extra leg room. good luck, Elaine


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## SMHarman

elaine said:


> DH and DD16 took a day tour to Stonehenge, Windsor Castle and Oxford and loved it.


All three in one day?!  That is a lot of moving around!  I'm guessing that is about 5 hours on the move between those destinations, not much time to spend at any of them!


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## Beaglemom3

SMHarman said:


> All three in one day?!  That is a lot of moving around!  I'm guessing that is about 5 hours on the move between those destinations, not much time to spend at any of them!





  I've done the Stonehenge, Windsor and Bath tour on the tour  coach bus (see prior posts) and it was just fine. Got to doze on the coach, too (jet lag) and felt refreshed each time we landed at a new site.

  Never felt rushed, but did not get to see much beyond the Roman Baths and the Bath Cathedral, however, there was more than adequate time for this stop. We had plenty of time to tour Windsor Castle as well as Stonehenge. We got to skip all waiting lines, too. 

  We were gone for about 10 hours and it seemed like 5.

As for the travel distance between stops, very do-able with the coach taken the motorways.


If you're short on time, I recommend these at least once and I've been to London (& the rest of England) going on 15 times now.


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## elaine

DH and DD had a great time. DD wanted only to see/photograph Stonehenge. I thought for the trouble to get there, might as well see some other sights. Oxford was a nice addition and they both loved the town. They said they could have skipped Windsor. It was a long, but really good tour day trip.
During the same day, kids and I went to Tower of London, Westminster and inside Buckingham Palace (open in Aug).
We have been to London 3X, but only for a couple days each time. We keep saying we want to stay a full week to see everything.


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## Passepartout

Beaglemom3 said:


> Got to doze on the coach, too (jet lag) and felt refreshed each time we landed at a new site.
> 
> We were gone for about 10 hours and it seemed like 5.



Funny how it works that way when you sleep..... 

Jim


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## Beaglemom3

LOL. You know it. Those jet-lag deep naps are refreshing, but disorienting.

See the all the sights AND have a unexplained time loss phenomenon.


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## spencersmama

We are doing a week and a half split between Paris and London this summer.  (It's all the time I could find that all four of us are available.)  I know it is a different airline, but we are flying in to Paris and out of London, both on Delta.  The taxes and fees for each frequent flyer ticket was $200.  The one way Eurostar fare from Paris to London per person was $70.  Like airline fares, Eurostar does have different rates, so the prices may change depending on when you book.  They do quote prices in American dollars if you select that option.  The process is very easy.


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## pwrshift

I'm doing a similar trip in Sept, but staying at hotels and over a month.  We fly to London, Chunnel to Paris, rent car to drive to Monaco, limo to Milan and Como, then train to Rome.  Even with flying, I can't see you doing it in such little time.

Brian


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## Inhislove

*Radiojon- what did you decide?*

Congratulations on 20 years! Let us know what you chose.


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## PStreet1

We, too, are fans of renting an apartment, and we've loved everyone--each for different reasons.  The cost is less than renting hotels, and you get much more local flavor.  We've also stayed in timeshares and bed and breakfasts, and the timeshares definitely come in last for us because the locations really aren't good for seeing cities; you use a lot of time commuting in to the central areas where you really want to be.  The burbs are interesting in their own right, but on your first trip, I think you'll want to see the big sites the cities are known for.

We've never had trouble renting an apartment for 2 or 3 nights (or booking a bed and breakfast for only a couple of nights), and the owners are, of course, a great source of information.


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