# Is Wyndham benefiting from the flawed website?



## 55plus (May 31, 2017)

After browsing Wyndham Extra Holidays website, it seem to be loaded with prime reservations at high demand locations, the same reservations and locations we the owners are unable to secure because of the flawed and troubled website they shoved down our throats. Planned or coincident?


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## wjappraise (May 31, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> After browsing Wyndham Extra Holidays website, it seem to be loaded with prime reservations at high demand locations, the same reservations and locations we the owners are unable to secure because of the flawed and troubled website they shoved down our throats. Planned or coincident?



Bingo!   Now we know the reason for the rush to get the piece of crap website running. It's such a conflict of interest to have EH competing for the same units we owners want.  And now they have the inside track!  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CO skier (May 31, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> After browsing Wyndham Extra Holidays website, it seem to be loaded with prime reservations at high demand locations, the same reservations and locations we the owners are unable to secure because of the flawed and troubled website they shoved down our throats. Planned or coincident?


Extra Holidays may be receiving this email from Wyndham in the near future, "This inventory was erroneously made available. We regret to inform you that this cannot be honored due to the error."


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## ilya (May 31, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> After browsing Wyndham Extra Holidays website, it seem to be loaded with prime reservations at high demand locations, the same reservations and locations we the owners are unable to secure because of the flawed and troubled website they shoved down our throats. Planned or coincident?




Same with Booking.com, expedia etc


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## CO skier (May 31, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> After browsing Wyndham Extra Holidays website, it seem to be loaded with prime reservations at high demand locations,





ilya said:


> Same with Booking.com, expedia etc




How do the nightly rates for the rental sites compare to average maintenance fees for the same thing reserved by an owner through Club Wyndham?

Is it more affordable to be an owner than a renter?


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## paxsarah (May 31, 2017)

Unless we've been following those sites since well before the new website, and for example last year at the same time, how do we know this is new and related to the new website? I'm not questioning that Wyndham seems to put up a lot of cash bookings at desirable locations, but I'm also pretty sure people have been complaining about this pretty much as long as I've been an owner.

I can't imagine that they would have planned a totally botched website rollout just so they could steal a few (more than they already typically take) reservations to rent for cash.


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## 55plus (May 31, 2017)

paxsarah said:


> Unless we've been following those sites since well before the new website, and for example last year at the same time, how do we know this is new and related to the new website? I'm not questioning that Wyndham seems to put up a lot of cash bookings at desirable locations, but I'm also pretty sure people have been complaining about this pretty much as long as I've been an owner.
> 
> I can't imagine that they would have planned a totally botched website rollout just so they could steal a few (more than they already typically take) reservations to rent for cash.



The main point is that Wyndham Extra Holidays is a conflict of interest and works against owners ability to use their points as advertised. I think any court would see the conflict of interest. And don't forget about the conflict of interest on Wyndham part by loading the HOAs boards with Wyndham management employees. Owners don't have a say on anything anymore.


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## cyseitz (May 31, 2017)

I know that ExtraHolidays is supposed to be using inventory from Wyndham owners who want to rent out their nights.  How does Wyndham get the inventory for Booking.com and Expedia?


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## Braindead (May 31, 2017)

Hate to disagree for Wyndhams sake but extra holidays is no different than a point manager when they are renting out units for owners


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## comicbookman (May 31, 2017)

cyseitz said:


> I know that ExtraHolidays is supposed to be using inventory from Wyndham owners who want to rent out their nights.  How does Wyndham get the inventory for Booking.com and Expedia?



From the points that Wyndham owns and pays maintenance on.  Until they sell them to you, Wyndham is responsible for the Maintenance on unsold inventory.


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## vacationhopeful (May 31, 2017)

Jim has it right in my opinion. From what I have gather over the years:

I believe, the management contract allows Wyndham to seize 90% of the available inventory inside the 60 day from checkin. And proceeds belong to the club manager (Wyndham) ... not profits, but proceeds. Wyndham ... not the HOAs.


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## cyseitz (May 31, 2017)

comicbookman said:


> From the points that Wyndham owns and pays maintenance on.  Until they sell them to you, Wyndham is responsible for the Maintenance on unsold inventory.


Thanks for clearing that up to me.  I often wondered where it came from.


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## cyseitz (May 31, 2017)

How much unsold inventory do you think Wyndham owns?


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## BellaWyn (Jun 1, 2017)

cyseitz said:


> How much unsold inventory do you think Wyndham owns?


Doesn't matter how much they own, they control the inventory management system (such as it is).  That's the point of this thread specific to the " conflict of interest" bit.

When you have sole control of a system of information, it can be manipulated to present whatever numbers they want to show.  Ownership, real or artifical, would be difficult to prove.  Conflict of interest however, even non- legal people can see the blantant reflection of that action happening.  WYN owns the numbers.  They present whatever distortions work to their best advantage.  There is ZERO accountability.  Plan on it.


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## cyseitz (Jun 1, 2017)

BellaWyn said:


> Doesn't matter how much they own, they control the inventory management system (such as it is).  That's the point of this thread specific to the " conflict of interest" bit.
> 
> When you have sole control of a system of information, it can be manipulated to present whatever numbers they want to show.  Ownership, real or artifical, would be difficult to prove.  Conflict of interest however, even non- legal people can see the blantant reflection of that action happening.  WYN owns the numbers.  They present whatever distortions work to their best advantage.  There is ZERO accountability.  Plan on it.[/Q
> 
> Well, if itsomethin





BellaWyn said:


> Doesn't matter how much they own, they control the inventory management system (such as it is).  That's the point of this thread specific to the " conflict of interest" bit.
> 
> When you have sole control of a system of information, it can be manipulated to present whatever numbers they want to show.  Ownership, real or artifical, would be difficult to prove.  Conflict of interest however, even non- legal people can see the blantant reflection of that action happening.  WYN owns the numbers.  They present whatever distortions work to their best advantage.  There is ZERO accountability.  Plan on it.



How can we prove it?  If this is really true, then they should be held accountable.  We would amost need to send a mole to search it out to see what they are doing.  I know in looking for BCR reservations, I there is often a "dump" of inventory all at once and there is no way that owners  are canceling  all of those reservations at once.


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

cyseitz said:


> How can we prove it?  If this is really true, then they should be held accountable.  We would amost need to send a mole to search it out to see what they are doing.  I know in looking for BCR reservations, I there is often a "dump" of inventory all at once and there is no way that owners  are canceling  all of those reservations at once.



I have said the same about CWA. It isn't like when Wyndham and Worldmark share resorts and have separate rooms.  We don't know if they actually limit ARP to what percent of points are owned by CWA. How can CWA have plenty of units at times of the year and then lock out CWA owners at other times. CWA should have equal access spread out all year.


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## ronparise (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> I have said the same about CWA. It isn't like when Wyndham and Worldmark share resorts and have separate rooms.  We don't know if they actually limit ARP to what percent of points are owned by CWA. How can CWA have plenty of units at times of the year and then lock out CWA owners at other times. CWA should have equal access spread out all year.





BellaWyn said:


> Doesn't matter how much they own, they control the inventory management system (such as it is).  That's the point of this thread specific to the " conflict of interest" bit.
> 
> When you have sole control of a system of information, it can be manipulated to present whatever numbers they want to show.  Ownership, real or artifical, would be difficult to prove.  Conflict of interest however, even non- legal people can see the blantant reflection of that action happening.  WYN owns the numbers.  They present whatever distortions work to their best advantage.  There is ZERO accountability.  Plan on it.




I prefer to believe the best,of people and companies, until I learn differently.  

 I order my Quarter Pounder and pay for it at one window, and I trust that it will be delivered to me as promised at the second window. I also trust that it will really weighs a quarter of a pound, that it wont give me food poisoning and that none of the workers spit on it before they delivered it to me.  If I didnt trust them I would raise my own cows and prepare the hamburgers at home 

With Wyndham. at least so far, I have been able to make the reservations I want as long as I plan ahead, and I have been surprised to get some of the reservations I have even at the last minute. From where I sit Im getting exactly what I paid for, and I trust that thats gonna continue... If I didnt i wouldnt do business with them.. and If I felt as you seem to...Id walk away


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

ronparise said:


> I prefer to believe the best,of people and companies, until I learn differently.
> 
> I order my Quarter Pounder and pay for it at one window, and I trust that it will be delivered to me as promised at the second window. I also trust that it will really weighs a quarter of a pound, that it wont give me food poisoning and that none of the workers spit on it before they delivered it to me.  If I didnt trust them I would raise my own cows and prepare the hamburgers at home
> 
> With Wyndham. at least so far, I have been able to make the reservations I want as long as I plan ahead, and I have been surprised to get some of the reservations I have even at the last minute. From where I sit Im getting exactly what I paid for, and I trust that thats gonna continue... If I didnt i wouldnt do business with them.. and If I felt as you seem to...Id walk away


I question CWA for example.
Oceanside Pier ARP for summer
If CWA owns 52 million points
Their should be 1 million points available per week.
But no you are locked out for about 3 months .  Why ?
I can use my 900k CWA Points in 1 week 9 months out of the year.
I have no access for 3 months and cannot use a single point .
I also own UDI points at Oceanside so its not a fixed week owner problem or UDI point owners would be locked out for 3 months also.


Extra Holidays is an easy target. Like the bully on the playground. If something is wrong that's the first place you look and your target. I have found more available units on sites like TripAdvisor from owner renters than Extra Holidays in the past.


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## scootr5 (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> I question CWA for example.
> Oceanside Pier ARP for summer
> If CWA owns 52 million points
> Their should be 1 million points available per week.



I don't believe I've ever seen anything that indicates CWA is allocated that way for inventory. In fact, I don't think there is anything published as to _how_ it's allocated. Theoretically, all 52 million should be available week one, and then a decreasing amount throughout the year as the points from that location are used up.


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## ronparise (Jun 1, 2017)

I think this is how inventory is allocated and reserved with CWA points 

availability is spread over the entire year

Let's consider UDI first. CWA owns a percentage of each resort. A couple of years ago I worked really hard to figure out how much of la Belle Maison was CWA. And ultimately at the sandiego sales room I got to look at "the book"  At that time about 25% of La Belle Maison was owned by CWA so roughly 35 rooms of the 140 at this property

My interest was Mardi Gras. At 8 am 13 months ahead of Mardi Gras the call center opened and when those 35 rooms were reserved that was the end of it for CWA owners

It is not possible for CWA owners to reserve any of the 105 units owned by the UDI owners. In the arp period. They belong to the deeded owners

Every week of the year there are 35 CWA rooms available to reserve. It is not possible to use up all the points CWA owns in the first couple of months of the year the limit is the number of units CWA owns, not the number of points

Regarding converted fixed weeks: the limit should be the number of units CWA owns for each week.  So my guess is that if CWA owns 10 week #3's  when those 10 units are reserved that's it and if they don't own any of one particular week it will be impossible for a CWA owner to ARP that week


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

scootr5 said:


> I don't believe I've ever seen anything that indicates CWA is allocated that way for inventory. In fact, I don't think there is anything published as to _how_ it's allocated. Theoretically, all 52 million should be available week one, and then a decreasing amount throughout the year as the points from that location are used up.


Then why get locked out 3 for months? Then be able to back through the rest of the year


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

ronparise said:


> I think this is how inventory is allocated and reserved with CWA points
> 
> availability is spread over the entire year
> 
> ...


Same question I asked scootr. 

Totally agree on fixed week owners. That's my point. There is not a conflict with fixed week owners at Oceanside Pier as my example. 
So that's not the reason to lock out CWA for 3 months. 
You still haven't answered why there's a 3 month gab in the summer at Oceanside Pier


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## Sandi Bo (Jun 1, 2017)

ronparise said:


> I prefer to believe the best,of people and companies, until I learn differently.
> 
> I order my Quarter Pounder and pay for it at one window, and I trust that it will be delivered to me as promised at the second window. I also trust that it will really weighs a quarter of a pound, that it wont give me food poisoning and that none of the workers spit on it before they delivered it to me.  If I didnt trust them I would raise my own cows and prepare the hamburgers at home
> 
> With Wyndham. at least so far, I have been able to make the reservations I want as long as I plan ahead, and I have been surprised to get some of the reservations I have even at the last minute. From where I sit Im getting exactly what I paid for, and I trust that thats gonna continue... If I didnt i wouldnt do business with them.. and If I felt as you seem to...Id walk away



And if somebody spit on my hamburger, I would walk away.  But I'd be asking for my money back first!


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## raygo123 (Jun 1, 2017)

ronparise said:


> I think this is how inventory is allocated and reserved with CWA points
> 
> availability is spread over the entire year
> 
> ...


I don't think the fact that in the end, its real estate, not one point at a time.  Why are you locked out for 3 months?  Wyndham, CWA, the trust, what ever you want to call it, doesn't have the deeds, converted to points to meet the demand. Just like south Florida.


Braindead said:


> Then why get locked out 3 for months? Then be able to back through the rest of the year




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## scootr5 (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> Then why get locked out 3 for months? Then be able to back through the rest of the year



Are we talking about _this_ summer, or _every_ summer?


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

scootr5 said:


> Are we talking about _this_ summer, or _every_ summer?


Every summer. 
It's in the directory also. 
Still no one answered the question.
There is no reason why a UDI point owner is allowed ARP all year. But lock out CWA for 3 months in the middle of the year


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## cayman01 (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> Every summer.
> It's in the directory also.
> Still no one answered the question.
> There is no reason why a UDI point owner is allowed ARP all year. But lock out CWA for 3 months in the middle of the year



  I do not know Oceanside so I am only guessing. Could it be that there are no weeks available for those three months? All have been bought up as fixed weeks way back when (similar to Newport). Some converted to UDI which gives them availability, but no CWA as UDI points would still have converted week as ARP.


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## scootr5 (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> Every summer.
> It's in the directory also.
> Still no one answered the question.
> There is no reason why a UDI point owner is allowed ARP all year. But lock out CWA for 3 months in the middle of the year



I never noticed that (although I never actually looked at it before). Was Oceanside a property that Wyndham got access to through the Wixon settlement? Perhaps no summer deeds/points were included in the way the settlement was structured (since it was supposed to underutilized Worldmark inventory going to Wyndham).


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

cayman01 said:


> I do not know Oceanside so I am only guessing. Could it be that there are no weeks available for those three months? All have been bought up as fixed weeks way back when (similar to Newport). Some converted to UDI which gives them availability, but no CWA as UDI points would still have converted week as ARP.


Fixed weeks are irrelevant. My UDI contract has no underlying week. It was sold as UDI contract and has ARP available all year. I've never seen a Oceanside week for sale.


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

scootr5 said:


> I never noticed that (although I never actually looked at it before). Was Oceanside a property that Wyndham got access to through the Wixon settlement? Perhaps no summer deeds/points were included in the way the settlement was structured (since it was supposed to underutilized Worldmark inventory going to Wyndham).


It is a shared resort with Worldmark. 
If that's the answer. Why does my UDI contract have ARP all year unrestricted ?


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## ronparise (Jun 1, 2017)

How would you know?


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

I think all of you are starting to understanding why I question CWA


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## ronparise (Jun 1, 2017)

Sandi Bo said:


> And if somebody spit on my hamburger, I would walk away.  But I'd be asking for my money back first!



How would you know?


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

deleted


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## paxsarah (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> Every summer.
> It's in the directory also.
> Still no one answered the question.
> There is no reason why a UDI point owner is allowed ARP all year. But lock out CWA for 3 months in the middle of the year



I'm pretty sure there is a reason, and that would be a deed. Or at least, the reason is that Wyndham can do anything they want, basically, that's not written in a deed or a contract. There are certain restrictions on CWA ARP listed in the directory (in addition to Oceanside Pier, there's also limitations at Smuggs and Emerald Grande). I presume that these restrictions arose as a condition of adding those resorts to the CWA portfolio. This isn't some opaque business process - as you said, it's right there in the directory.


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## ronparise (Jun 1, 2017)

raygo123 said:


> I don't think the fact that in the end, its real estate, not one point at a time.  Why are you locked out for 3 months?  Wyndham, CWA, the trust, what ever you want to call it, doesn't have the deeds, converted to points to meet the demand. Just like south Florida.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk






Braindead said:


> Same question I asked scootr.
> 
> Totally agree on fixed week owners. That's my point. There is not a conflict with fixed week owners at Oceanside Pier as my example.
> So that's not the reason to lock out CWA for 3 months.
> You still haven't answered why there's a 3 month gab in the summer at Oceanside Pier



You are right. Just ignore my previous post


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## ronparise (Jun 1, 2017)

diplicate


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

paxsarah said:


> I'm pretty sure there is a reason, and that would be a deed. Or at least, the reason is that Wyndham can do anything they want, basically, that's not written in a deed or a contract. There are certain restrictions on CWA ARP listed in the directory (in addition to Oceanside Pier, there's also limitations at Smuggs and Emerald Grande). I presume that these restrictions arose as a condition of adding those resorts to the CWA portfolio. This isn't some opaque business process - as you said, it's right there in the directory.


Since when is there a priority list in when UDI points have access. I could be wrong but I think the points in CWA are UDI points ?


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## nicemann (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> I question CWA for example.
> Oceanside Pier ARP for summer
> If CWA owns 52 million points
> Their should be 1 million points available per week.
> But no you are locked out for about 3 months .  Why ?



Not sure what 3 months you are referring to?  I have CWA, I have a week in August booked this year at Oceanside Pier, looking at next June, picked a random week, shows everything 1 Bedroom to a 4 Bedroom Pres.  I am just a resell owner sure the booking for the Pres room wouldn't go through.


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

ronparise said:


> You are right. I'll delete my thoughts


Sorry for deleting Ron. The only thing I seen was how do you know. I answered I own there. Then seen you were answering another question.

But on that point. I think we are all witnessing the spitting on the hamburger


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## scootr5 (Jun 1, 2017)

I would think the CWA holdings could be UDI points contracts, fixed week deeds, or any other ownership type. The CWA points are merely representative of those holdings, the same as the CWP points are representative of the individual holdings in that program.


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## Braindead (Jun 1, 2017)

nicemann said:


> Not sure what 3 months you are referring to?  I have CWA, I have a week in August booked this year at Oceanside Pier, looking at next June, picked a random week, shows everything 1 Bedroom to a 4 Bedroom Pres.  I am just a resell owner sure the booking for the Pres room wouldn't go through.


CWA or that Pres. Reserve contract getting you access ?


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## paxsarah (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> Since when is there a priority list in when UDI points have access. I could be wrong but I think the points in CWA are UDI points ?



Since the start of CWA and apparently (before my time, and not being a CWA owner, I don't follow it all that closely, so these are my guesses) that certain resort HOAs managed to get some restrictions placed on when CWA owners could exercise ARP. In the sense that this is printed in the directory, this should be information available to CWA owners before purchasing and they can decide accordingly. I don't see it as evidence of some sort of shady underhandedness - again, not saying that there is or isn't shady underhandedness elsewhere by Wyndham, just that something printed in black and white for all to see doesn't meet the definition for me.

Similarly, VIPs don't get to use their reciprocal ARP for Myrtle Beach resorts in summer or holiday periods. Since when don't VIP owners get their 11-month reciprocal ARP at certain locations? Since someone decided it was so and printed it in the member directory.


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## nicemann (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> CWA or that Pres. Reserve contract getting you access ?


I am CWA, yeah the Pres I could not book for June but the one below had no problems getting to the reservation name.

CHECK-IN Jun 17, 2018 4pm
CHECK-OUT Jun 21, 2018 10am
PRICE 132,000 Points
UNIT TYPE 2 Bedroom Deluxe Ocean View
Managed By Wyndham
VIP Benefits Apply


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## scootr5 (Jun 1, 2017)

nicemann said:


> Not sure what 3 months you are referring to?  I have CWA, I have a week in August booked this year at Oceanside Pier, looking at next June, picked a random week, shows everything 1 Bedroom to a 4 Bedroom Pres.  I am just a resell owner sure the booking for the Pres room wouldn't go through.



Interesting. The CWA sale brochure seems to indicate that there would be no ARP during the summer.


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## cayman01 (Jun 1, 2017)

Looking back thru the old threads I didn't find much other than that Oceanside was very difficult to get into in the summer. Therefore i surmise that the HOA said no CWA access in the summertime as a part of the CWA agreement. Makes sense as they do not want to tick off their longtime owners by making it much harder to book the summer.


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## cayman01 (Jun 1, 2017)

nicemann said:


> I am CWA, yeah the Pres I could not book for June but the one below had no problems getting to the reservation name.
> 
> CHECK-IN Jun 17, 2018 4pm
> CHECK-OUT Jun 21, 2018 10am
> ...



Funny, I put in those dates and it comes back that the dates I have selected are out of range. I am PR, so I put in just under 12 months and same thing. Another glitch for Wyndham to solve.


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## nicemann (Jun 1, 2017)

scootr5 said:


> Interesting. The CWA sale brochure seems to indicate that there would be no ARP during the summer.



Don't know if my account is special or what.  I just pulled up June of 2018 for a 2 bedroom ocean view and shows the entire month is available.  Like i said this is a resell CWA, first year since I have had it.


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## raygo123 (Jun 1, 2017)

Braindead said:


> Since when is there a priority list in when UDI points have access. I could be wrong but I think the points in CWA are UDI points ?


Its parts and pieces of all the ownership types.  But fore points, what were all the ownership weeks?  Every single week that Wyndham obtained, no matter what form of ownership, has been converted to points, unless it benefits them to keep some purely deeded.  

Your right, the hoa at a resort could put restrictions on but that is very difficult.  It in my oppion would have to occur at an opportune moment in time. Not to say it didn't happen.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


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## ronparise (Jun 1, 2017)

regarding CWA

there was a guy on the old Wyndham message boards that always made the point that CWA was just another owner, that owned tons of deeds so Whatever any owner could do with one of those deeds, CWA could do as well.  So if he is right and CWA owns 25% of a resort, its possible that all the points could be used up in January  but I dont think thats the way they do it. I think the cwa availability is distributed evenly across the year.  but that there must be  exceptions


.Im guessing that oceanside is one of the exceptions.  Perhaps they just dont enough inventory to have a reasonable number of CWA units all 52 weeks. or as someone suggested.. Summers are so popular with the owners, the HOA asked that summers be left for them


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## BellaWyn (Jun 2, 2017)

ronparise said:


> regarding CWA
> 
> there was a guy on the old Wyndham message boards that always made the point that CWA was just another owner, that owned tons of deeds so Whatever any owner could do with one of those deeds, CWA could do as well.  So if he is right and CWA owns 25% of a resort, its possible that all the points could be used up in January  but I dont think thats the way they do it. I think the cwa availability is distributed evenly across the year.  but that there must be  exceptions
> 
> ...


This gets answered with deed searches.  Even the UDI locations have an underlying deed to the ownership which has to be attached to something because it's real property.

At the multiple locations we own, the deeds were sold off to CWA in blocks, based on availabilty of the deeds. It's likely that, as Ron says, Oceanside is one of those locations where getting occupancy all year long is rarely an issue and summers will always be slammed.  There would have been no good reason that CWA would have been able to twist their arms enough to give up summer deeded product to hand off to CWA. Those deeds would have been pretty locked up by either owners or the HOA or both.  

People with CWA cannot get ARP at a location during a time of year that doesn't exist in the CWA portfolio.


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## CO skier (Jun 2, 2017)

BellaWyn said:


> This gets answered with deed searches.  Even the UDI locations have an underlying deed to the ownership which has to be attached to something because it's real property.


UDI deed are attached only to points in Club Wyndham that are _symbolic_ of the deeded ownership.  Wyndham is in total control of what those points can actually reserve.


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## BellaWyn (Jun 2, 2017)

CO skier said:


> UDI deed are attached only to points in Club Wyndham that are _symbolic_ of the deeded ownership.  Wyndham is in total control of what those points can actually reserve.


*Not true. *

My UDI deeds all have actual room numbers buried in the contract language.  Agree, in theory, it's may seem symbolic because of the way the points are dispersed but it is still attached to real property.  There is also language in the contracts that identify points "equivalencies" that support the total number of UDI points purchased.


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## ronparise (Jun 2, 2017)

BellaWyn said:


> *Not true. *
> 
> My UDI deeds all have actual room numbers buried in the contract language.  Agree, in theory, it's may seem symbolic because of the way the points are dispersed but it is still attached to real property.  There is also language in the contracts that identify points "equivalencies" that support the total number of UDI points purchased.



The word symbolic is exactly right. Here is the definition of "points" found in the Club Wyndham trust agreement:

"Points" means the symbolic value allocated to a member.......... "


Points are symbolic of ownership,(or membership, or rtu)  not ownership itself. they are the the currency  we use in the exchange club we call Club Wyndham Plus  and Co_skier is right; Wyndham (because they control the club) does control use of the points. we gave up our use rights to them when we assigned our use rights to the club

CWA points are two steps removed from the deed.. deeds are owned by the CWA trust and in turn use rights are assigned to Club Wyndham Plus.. there are two sets of rules regarding CWA points

so the use rights are assigned to the club and the club (wyndham) slices and dices those rights and redistributes them.. How else is it possible for me, with an Lake Marion  deed and a Myrtle beach deed to (at ten months ahead of check in) use the points symbolic of those ownerships to make a reservation for a room someone else owns   in Orlando.  The club has reassigned someone elses right to use what they own in Orlando to me. and one of the "rules" is that I cant make that reservation until 10 months ahead of check in.  it could have been 9 months or 11 months.. It actually is 11 months for some folks that have reciprocal rights at the orlando resort

There are other reservation rules that Wyndham just made up, that we take for granted..but they can be changed. Rules like cancellations up to 15 days before check in get points back, but not the reservation transaction we used. The fee structure can change, the number of guest confirmations we get can change (and just did) Some members get certain privileges that others dont..(VIP) etc etc.  

So why cant wyndham make special rules for CWA members at the  Oceanside resort.  They can and they do


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## raygo123 (Jun 2, 2017)

I cannot understand why owners of deeds believe they have any rights other than ARP at their resort or the availability to pull out of the club.  Everything else is at  the whim of the club.  You joined a club, you are the one that that was better than just a deed!  Direct purchase or resale makes no difference, the only right you have is to bitch.  The new website is strictly for the club. 

 Why should Wyndham care if it isn't working right? It their club, not the management divisions site, they have nothing go do with each other, other than they are owned by Wyndham worldwide.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


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## bobbyoc23 (Jun 2, 2017)

raygo123 said:


> I cannot understand why owners of deeds believe they have any rights other than ARP at their resort or the availability to pull out of the club.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



So I, as an owner of a UDI contract at Bonnet Creek, have the option of withdrawing my deed from Club Wyndham Plus? If so, how does that work, I can only use my points to make reservations at Bonnet Creek I assume?

Forgive my ignorance, I really should know how my deeded ownership rights work. I just didn't care enough to read the fine print or understand the nuances of the Club when I purchased my resale contract, I just wanted to take great vacations.


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## ronparise (Jun 2, 2017)

bobbyoc23 said:


> So I, as an owner of a UDI contract at Bonnet Creek, have the option of withdrawing my deed from Club Wyndham Plus? If so, how does that work, I can only use my points to make reservations at Bonnet Creek I assume?
> 
> Forgive my ignorance, I really should know how my deeded ownership rights work. I just didn't care enough to read the fine print or understand the nuances of the Club when I purchased my contract, I just wanted to take great vacations.



part if the deal when you purchase a UDI  is that you agree to assign the use rights to the club.  I'm not sure where it is in the docs. But it must be there because what you own is not usable except in concert with the rest of the owners


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## Braindead (Jun 2, 2017)

ronparise said:


> part if the deal when you purchase a UDI  is that you agree to assign the use rights to the club.  I'm not sure where it is in the docs. But it must be there because what you own is not usable except in concert with the rest of the owners


Wow !  How many were ever told that ?
Most of CWA ownership is worthless as far as ARP. Oceanside Pier is a good example. It's only good for advertising. You have ARP but only when you don't need it.

Thanks to Ron and bellawyn for the info


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## CO skier (Jun 2, 2017)

ronparise said:


> part if the deal when you purchase a UDI  is that you agree to assign the use rights to the club.  I'm not sure where it is in the docs. But it must be there because what you own is not usable except in concert with the rest of the owners


It is written on my recorded deeds

"A 210,000/17,743,000 undivided fee simple interest in Units 7829-7830 in Building 15 … (lengthy reference to county recording) …, which undivided interest has been assigned 210,000 Fairshare Plus Points symbolic of said property interest.

Together with a vested remainder over in fee simple absolute, as tenant in common with the other owners of all Unit Weeks in the hereafter described Units …"



There is not any certain week or other use timeframe assigned to the deed --- just points.  Advance Reservation Priority is not a deeded right, either.  It is just another part of the Club Wyndham Plus program.


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## VivZ (Jun 3, 2017)

Not sure if it would the same at other resorts with CWA restrictions during high season but city requirements may be impacting Oceanside Pier. Until there are "X" number of hotel rooms built in the city, the resort is required to block a certain number of rooms during the summer months and rent them as hotel rooms thus taking them out of the timeshare inventory. There is a lot of hotel construction happening there now and the last time I was down there a couple of months ago, I was told the restriction should be lifted once the next hotel is constructed.


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## ronparise (Jun 3, 2017)

CO skier said:


> It is written on my recorded deeds
> 
> "A 210,000/17,743,000 undivided fee simple interest in Units 7829-7830 in Building 15 … (lengthy reference to county recording) …, which undivided interest has been assigned 210,000 Fairshare Plus Points symbolic of said property interest.
> 
> ...



That's what I meant when I said the deeded interest is useless without the club. I mean you can't stay in both thosenunits at the same time

It is a real deed and an interest in real property but using it is impossible without the club


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## ronparise (Jun 3, 2017)

VivZ said:


> Not sure if it would the same at other resorts with CWA restrictions during high season but city requirements may be impacting Oceanside Pier. Until there are "X" number of hotel rooms built in the city, the resort is required to block a certain number of rooms during the summer months and rent them as hotel rooms thus taking them out of the timeshare inventory. There is a lot of hotel construction happening there now and the last time I was down there a couple of months ago, I was told the restriction should be lifted once the next hotel is constructed.



But can't a UDI owner reserve the place in the summer


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## Braindead (Jun 3, 2017)

ronparise said:


> But can't a UDI owner reserve the place in the summer


Yes and I do ARP for summer. I also have reservations this month I made at the 10 month mark. My ARP reservations are oceanfront. My 10 month reservations are oceanview. That's why I still don't fully understand our discussion before regarding CWA and ARP


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## happyhopian (Jun 3, 2017)

CO skier said:


> It is written on my recorded deeds
> 
> "A 210,000/17,743,000 undivided fee simple interest in Units 7829-7830 in Building 15 … (lengthy reference to county recording) …, which undivided interest has been assigned 210,000 Fairshare Plus Points symbolic of said property interest.
> 
> ...



"There is not any certain week or other use timeframe assigned to the deed --- just points.  Advance Reservation Priority is not a deeded right, either.  It is just another part of the Club Wyndham Plus program."

And this is the excellent point to make. As long as what they do is fair as related to the minority interest then it is ok but IF they start making changes that are punitive or gross in a way that changes the deal I can assure you there are some elected officials that would step in. This has happened before and Wyndham knows that timeshares are poorly viewed by the legislatures. In fact I have been told by the former Wyndham president at an owner's meeting that their research showed that the public viewed timeshare sellers on par with pawnshops and payday loans.

Wyndham cannot change anything they want. They can change what they need to in so much that it doesn't take away a significant portion of rights that in turn devalue the original contracts - SO THAT IT BENEFITS WYNDHAM. That last part is the key. If they have unilateral control and they take action in the position of a 'trust' to benefit themselves to the demise of others there are serious state and federal laws they will face having nothing to do with any of us needing to take them to court. See Enron, MCI, thousands of 2009-2013 mortgage fraud cases. Don't think that whistleblower lawsuit was because she was a nice woman - it was the 'poor seniors' who got taken advantage of. That is an up-n-coming attorney general or other elected officials dream setting to ride in upon a white horse. The only key here is that is has to be big enough and I think gratuitous. In these recent changes, they took and they gave. That was very smart on their part and since it has happened I have found more good than bad.

That is the key here. They are acting in a capacity of a trust manager and therefore the decisions they make must be provable to be in the best interest of the entire body - with specific focus on the minority and underrepresented members.

It is very misleading for you guys to extract language and then state that they can do what they want. While it might not say so in the contract you two are not versed enough in the law of trusts and management to understand the statutory and common law requirements which explain why they don't just do whatever the heck they want...they are restrictions on their actions.

All of these things, the associations, the trusts, the clubs, the management agreement are all heavily regulated. See the updated federal filings on the fairshare trust:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1361658/000095012310041715/y84238exv10w1.htm

Read the sales brochure and follow the use of the word 'trust'.
http://wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CWA_Sales_Brochure.pdf

The use of these specific words 'trust' and the inclusion of these specific entities invoke specific responsibilities nowhere near the cavalier attitude a few of you seem to throw around as though Wyndham can make changes willy/nilly.


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## VivZ (Jun 3, 2017)

ronparise said:


> But can't a UDI owner reserve the place in the summer


Yes, I have a couple reservations for this summer.


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## happyhopian (Jun 3, 2017)

ronparise said:


> But can't a UDI owner reserve the place in the summer


Yes there are other factors. I've got one for you. Emerald Grande in Destin was not built by Wyndham. It is a condo development on the harbor which was built and sold as a fractional ownership. 3-4 owners per unit. Wyndham has been buying 'fractional' ownership as they are priced right in the market according to the developer there whom I know.

This means that Wyndham might own 60 units in the building but they don't own the whole year for each unit. There is a particular unit I like and when I stay they almost always assign me to this unit if I reach out in advance. There have been instance when they could not locate me in that unit because Wyndham did not own that rotation in the fractional rotation. They might own share 1 and 2 of a 4 share unit and in some cases they might own only 1 or they might own all.

Yes there are MANY factors we don't all know or understand but what I do know is that Wyndham is a publicly traded company that is not going to take gratuitous actions to benefit their bottom line in a way that hurts the membership - they know full well that the feds would be tickled pink to make them a target seeing how well loved timeshare sellers are. And don't talk to me about political connections. Ask some of the wallstreet, MCI and Enron folks about how well those political connections work when you are screwing older moms and pops.


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## raygo123 (Jun 3, 2017)

CO skier said:


> It is written on my recorded deeds
> 
> "A 210,000/17,743,000 undivided fee simple interest in Units 7829-7830 in Building 15 … (lengthy reference to county recording) …, which undivided interest has been assigned 210,000 Fairshare Plus Points symbolic of said property interest.
> 
> ...


I owned unit 314 foxrun converted to 154,000 points it is managed by variety, and access also to II and RCI.  Just had to let Wyndham know 13 months n advance.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


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## ronparise (Jun 3, 2017)

happyhopian said:


> "There is not any certain week or other use timeframe assigned to the deed --- just points.  Advance Reservation Priority is not a deeded right, either.  It is just another part of the Club Wyndham Plus program."
> 
> And this is the excellent point to make. As long as what they do is fair as related to the minority interest then it is ok but IF they start making changes that are punitive or gross in a way that changes the deal I can assure you there are some elected officials that would step in. This has happened before and Wyndham knows that timeshares are poorly viewed by the legislatures. In fact I have been told by the former Wyndham president at an owner's meeting that their research showed that the public viewed timeshare sellers on par with pawnshops and payday loans.
> 
> ...



No one has said that Wyndham is making changes to just benefit Wyndham. Everything they do they say they do for the good of the club and by extension the membership. The email I got suspending my accounts was sent by Wyndham in their capicity as manager of the club. And I remember posting before the recent rule changes that whatever they would do would be framed as a benefit. And of course that's what they did. Nothing was said about cancel and rebook. All they talked about was the new auto upgrade feature

Having said that:  the trust and most of the HOAs are controlled by Wyndham so it's easy to understand that some folks are sceptical about wyndhams motives


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## BellaWyn (Jun 3, 2017)

ronparise said:


> No one has said that Wyndham is making changes to just benefit Wyndham. Everything they do they say they do for the good of the club and by extension the membership. The email I got suspending my accounts was sent by Wyndham in their capicity as manager of the club. And I remember posting before the recent rule changes that whatever the would do would be framed as a benefit. And of course that's what they did. Nothing was said about cancel and rebook. All they talked about was the new auto upgrade feature
> 
> Having said that:  the trust and most of the HOAs are controlled by Wyndham so it's easy to understand that some folks are sceptical about wyndhams motives


They can spin it however they want in writing, public statements or whatever form of communication they present for legaleze CYA.  Don't think you can convince anyone that what they SAY and what they DO are in sync.  WYN gets away with a lot because the "verbal" doesn't hold up in court. 

It's a known sales model to present distortions and misinformation to obtain the sale.  That can be explained no other way than self-serving.  To suspend owners from access to their accounts because of their own internal accounting flaws with minimal communication, self-serving with no consideration for the member. To have flawed accounting and inaccurate reconciliation practices in the first place, self serving and not in the best interest of the club and by extension membership.  Rollout of a new system with partially populated data, broken functions and live coding of changes on the fly, self serving to meet a timeline.  Doesn't benefit the Club or by extension the membership.

We have moved beyond skepticism as members.  Trust is as broken as the new site.


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## happyhopian (Jun 3, 2017)

ronparise said:


> No one has said that Wyndham is making changes to just benefit Wyndham. Everything they do they say they do for the good of the club and by extension the membership. The email I got suspending my accounts was sent by Wyndham in their capicity as manager of the club. And I remember posting before the recent rule changes that whatever the would do would be framed as a benefit. And of course that's what they did. Nothing was said about cancel and rebook. All they talked about was the new auto upgrade feature
> 
> Having said that:  the trust and most of the HOAs are controlled by Wyndham so it's easy to understand that some folks are sceptical about wyndhams motives


Yes most people are sceptical but to extend my point and be more blunt, you are VERY experienced and VERY wise so you of all people should be explaining to them the protections that should and will keep most corporations from running them over.

I know your background and you've been very insightful (and helpful) to me in the past but as I said in another post, I get the sense you feel burned from your recent experience. I learned a long time ago not to judge people until you've walked in their shoes so I won't but I'm sure you're pissed somewhere deep inside that you're not desirous of admitting at this time - regardless of how satisfactorily you guy resolved your differences - there is clearly a difference in the tone of your posts.

I would suggest that folks as wise as you should be helping put out the fires, not fan the flames. I don't have any business telling you what to do and you are free to tell me to shove off. I just remember a cool hand luke version of Ron that hasn't been around in a while. I miss that guy's comments if you happen to bump into him.

YES there are plenty of reason to bitch but Wyndham is NOT going to go hog wild in changes to membership, fees, assessments, ARP, availability, rules and ownership benefits without serious oversight. In this most recent case, voyager and the accompanying changes have been debate for at least 7 years and even in this change they gave and they took (some might think more one than the other).


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## happyhopian (Jun 3, 2017)

BellaWyn said:


> They can spin it however they want in writing, public statements or whatever form of communication they present for legaleze CYA.  Don't think you can convince anyone that what they SAY and what they DO are in sync.  WYN gets away with a lot because the "verbal" doesn't hold up in court.
> 
> It's a known sales model to present distortions and misinformation to obtain the sale.  That can be explained no other way than self-serving.  To suspend owners from access to their accounts because of their own internal accounting flaws with minimal communication, self-serving with no consideration for the member. To have flawed accounting and inaccurate reconciliation practices in the first place, self serving and not in the best interest of the club and by extension membership.  Rollout of a new system with partially populated data, broken functions and live coding of changes on the fly, self serving to meet a timeline.  Doesn't benefit the Club or by extension the membership.
> 
> We have moved beyond skepticism as members.  Trust is as broken as the new site.


YES and if anyone cared enough or thought they were right about their position then they would have been sitting their arse in a chair out side the attorney general's office or their united states senator refusing to leave until they were seen.

The problem is that there was blood on many hands as Ron alluded to. The software/website change is awful, embarrassing and frankly pathetic but it is not malicious. They are getting hammered on facebook and they are running CS operations to cover for their screw ups. They aren't the first or the last company to make mistakes. Trust me. I make a VERY good living off of companies who make mistakes, well intentioned as many of them have been. And hey, it doesn't even have to be private industry. The greatest IT roll out disaster of all time was The United State's Government's roll out of ACA (Obamacare). 

On some of your points I am with you and while I have never been 'trusting' I live by the keep your friends close and your enemies closer, hence why I spend 5 hours a week or more here. But as concerned as you are, have you stepped out? Have you been to see an attorney general or high ranking elected official in a capacity to force an investigation into the oversight and regulation of a company already held to regulatory standards in all of the HOA, property management, trust management and their real estate sales? I'm not picking on you I hope you understand. I'm just saying that bitching at the database of forum responses here isn't going to change anything.


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## CO skier (Jun 4, 2017)

ronparise said:


> That's what I meant when I said the deeded interest is useless without the club. I mean you can't stay in both thosenunits at the same time
> 
> It is a real deed and an interest in real property but using it is impossible without the club


I agree completely.

In the post previous to mine, you wrote


ronparise said:


> part if the deal when you purchase a UDI  is that you agree to assign the use rights to the club.  I'm not sure where it is in the docs.




My post was simply to cite where the property use rights are assigned to points in Club Wyndham, and for UDI ownerships, the assignment is written directly into the deed of ownership.


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## ronparise (Jun 4, 2017)

happyhopian said:


> Yes most people are sceptical but to extend my point and be more blunt, you are VERY experienced and VERY wise so you of all people should be explaining to them the protections that should and will keep most corporations from running them over.
> 
> I know your background and you've been very insightful (and helpful) to me in the past but as I said in another post, I get the sense you feel burned from your recent experience. I learned a long time ago not to judge people until you've walked in their shoes so I won't but I'm sure you're pissed somewhere deep inside that you're not desirous of admitting at this time - regardless of how satisfactorily you guy resolved your differences - there is clearly a difference in the tone of your posts.
> 
> ...





There may be some underlying "pissed" off attitude showing through but its not at the ultimate resolution wyndham and i came to, and Im not upset at the individual wyndham employees i worked with or the process we followed to get there.   I knew years ago that what I was doing was not sustainable. My mentor in all this taught me early on,  that nothing is forever. So I wasnt surprised or pissed about what happened, and as Ive said in other comments here, I came out smelling like a rose, so Im not pissed about that.  I always knew that what I was doing was a hustle, not a business. and I knew that, one day, it would end.  But the outcome of our negotiations wasnt clear iin the days immediately after the suspensions and I had some sleepless nights until we came to a direction for our negotiations. If Im pissed off at anything its at that they left me twisting in the wind for a couple of weeks, uncertain about where we were going.  But once we set a direction i started sleeping again, and making plans for the future...and I returned to my usual "cool" and, as my wife would say, "detached" self

So, I dont see that the "tone" of my posts have changed. I think I still look at the big picture and understand my place in it. As I have described it before. Im crawling around under Wyndhams banquet table, picking up the crumbs,  that they drop. Im not trying to change what Wyndham does, and Im not bitching about what they do. Changing metaphors a bit, Its their sandbox Im playing in

To the subject at hand... 
Im not complaining about the website or trying to convince them to make it better...Im trying to learn how to use it. And Im not fighting the new rules,  Im trying to figure out how to work within them (without violating the terms of my recent agreement) 

My advice, for what its worth, is to always remember that Wyndhams interests and their stockholders interests, and our interests are the same. They want to profit by providing an excellent vacation experience, and we want to enjoy an excellent vacation experience.


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## CO skier (Jun 4, 2017)

happyhopian said:


> That is the key here. They are acting in a capacity of a trust manager and therefore the decisions they make must be provable to be in the best interest of the entire body - with specific focus on the minority and underrepresented members.
> 
> It is very misleading for you guys to extract language and then state that they can do what they want. While it might not say so in the contract you two are not versed enough in the law of trusts and management to understand the statutory and common law requirements which explain why they don't just do whatever the heck they want...they are restrictions on their actions.



This is what I wrote


CO skier said:


> UDI deed are attached only to points in Club Wyndham that are _symbolic_ of the deeded ownership.  Wyndham is in total control of what those points can actually reserve.


and this is why I have that opinion, with the relevant part emphasized

"ARTICLE XI
TRUST PROPERTY RESERVATIONS
11.01 Directory. Set forth below in summary form are certain of the most important features of the Plan. The rules, regulations, guidelines, policies and procedures related to the allocation of Points to the Trust Properties and the use of Points by Members in connection with the Trust Properties and the Plan are fully described in the Directory. In the event of a conflict between the information described in this Article XI and the information set forth in the Directory, the information set forth in the Directory shall be controlling. *Wyndham, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to amend the Directory and the provisions therein from time to time as may be necessary to implement the Plan*."


I think you have the burden of proof reversed.  If a Club Member disagrees with the amendment(s) Wyndham makes to the Guidelines, it is up to the Member to prove that the changes are not in the best interest of the entire body.  Some Megarenters tried that after the last major changes, and they did not get far and none of the amendments to the Directory were changed back.


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## ronparise (Jun 4, 2017)

CO skier said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> In the post previous to mine, you wrote
> 
> ...



understood, Thanks


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## ronparise (Jun 4, 2017)

CO skier said:


> This is what I wrote
> 
> and this is why I have that opinion, with the relevant part emphasized
> 
> ...


agreed...and they wont change anything this time either.


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## wjappraise (Jun 4, 2017)

happyhopian said:


> YES and if anyone cared enough or thought they were right about their position then they would have been sitting their arse in a chair out side the attorney general's office or their united states senator refusing to leave until they were seen.
> 
> The problem is that there was blood on many hands as Ron alluded to. The software/website change is awful, embarrassing and frankly pathetic but it is not malicious. They are getting hammered on facebook and they are running CS operations to cover for their screw ups. They aren't the first or the last company to make mistakes. Trust me. I make a VERY good living off of companies who make mistakes, well intentioned as many of them have been. And hey, it doesn't even have to be private industry. The greatest IT roll out disaster of all time was The United State's Government's roll out of ACA (Obamacare).
> 
> On some of your points I am with you and while I have never been 'trusting' I live by the keep your friends close and your enemies closer, hence why I spend 5 hours a week or more here. But as concerned as you are, have you stepped out? Have you been to see an attorney general or high ranking elected official in a capacity to force an investigation into the oversight and regulation of a company already held to regulatory standards in all of the HOA, property management, trust management and their real estate sales? I'm not picking on you I hope you understand. I'm just saying that bitching at the database of forum responses here isn't going to change anything.



I bow to your expertise.  However there is a clear conflict of interest inherent in Wyndham's structure.  Everything from controlling HOA boards to playing loose with sales ethics to renting timeshare rooms on the internet to arbitrary rule changes screams that this company has no regard for its "owners."   And while we do not visit AG offices, many of us have reached out to them.  One AG office told me "get out of Wyndham.  They are a company that will spend millions to bury AG complaints or investigations."   Tyco, Enron, and MCI also had decades of being allowed to operate freely.  Eventually their contempt for business ethics caught up with them.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kozman (Jun 4, 2017)

Doesn't sound a lot different than what RCI does. There is always inventory for rent but none for trade at any level of trade power points.


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## CO skier (Jun 4, 2017)

wjappraise said:


> I bow to your expertise.  However there is a clear conflict of interest inherent in Wyndham's structure.  Everything from controlling HOA boards to playing loose with sales ethics to renting timeshare rooms on the internet to arbitrary rule changes screams that this company has no regard for its "owners."   And while we do not visit AG offices, many of us have reached out to them.  One AG office told me "get out of Wyndham.


That is the reality for many timeshares.  I knew that going into my contract purchases.  For all practical purposes, all I own are 315,000 points in a vacation club.  That is all that I expect, and so far it has provided some very nice vacation accommodations.  If that changes, I will offer up the contracts for free through the TUG Marketplace to anyone who wants to cover the closing costs.  If no one is interested in the offer, I will exit out the door under the sign that reads "Ovation".


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## wjappraise (Jun 4, 2017)

CO skier said:


> That is the reality for many timeshares.  I knew that going into my contract purchases.  For all practical purposes, all I own are 315,000 points in a vacation club.  That is all that I expect, and so far it has provided some very nice vacation accommodations.  If that changes, I will offer up the contracts for free through the TUG Marketplace to anyone who wants to cover the closing costs.  If no one is interested in the offer, I will exit out the door under the sign that reads "Ovation".



That's a great plan of action.  And the accommodations are great.  Owners like you who purchased smaller and mid range amounts via resale are in the best position.  Somewhat ironic (or moronic) that those of us who paid full freight for Platinum VIP are in the worst position given our "investment" cost and expectations that what sales told us would at least partially be true.  And we are the largest percentage of those who were suspended in August 2016 with no resolution to date. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## marciaheitz (Jun 5, 2017)

Please forgive me.....I rarely (maybe never) have posted on here but I'm trying to find a way to contact Ron P. because I've rented Wyndham pts. from him before and may need to rent some more.  I know he started this thread and am hoping he can email me at marciaheitz@hotmail.com.  Again, sorry for interrupting your thread with something totally irrelevant to the discussion.


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## BellaWyn (Jun 6, 2017)

Just click on his user name and "start a conversation."  It's similart to a FB PM.


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## am1 (Jun 6, 2017)

At least now Wyndham has decided to only charge me the $99 guest fee when I cannot add guest names online because the website is not working for one of my accounts.  

Would have saved me $10 000 dollars if they adopted this policy when they locked my accounts in August.  
Another nice update is when guests are added over the phone the confirmation e-mail is sent right away. Great for record keeping purposes and to get any misspellings corrected right away instead of taking half an hour the next day.


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## raygo123 (Jun 6, 2017)

am1 said:


> At least now Wyndham has decided to only charge me the $99 guest fee when I cannot add guest names online because the website is not working for one of my accounts.
> 
> Would have saved me $10 000 dollars if they adopted this policy when they locked my accounts in August.
> Another nice update is when guests are added over the phone the confirmation e-mail is sent right away. Great for record keeping purposes and to get any misspellings corrected right away instead of taking half an hour the next day.


Read under the title "points history" it might as explain why it cannot be done immediately.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


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## 55plus (Jun 6, 2017)

ExtraHolidays.com has been upgraded. It actually works good and it's much faster than what they gave us, but then again Extra Holidays is a Wyndham revenue stream. The piece of crap of a website they rolled out for the owns was by design. Make it difficult for the owners to find and book a reservation so they can grab the prime locations and timeframes. If they can get Extra Holidays right, why not both websites. Big conflict of interest here, just like Wyndham controlling the HOAs. . .


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## CO skier (Jun 6, 2017)

morrisjim said:


> ExtraHolidays.com has been upgraded. It actually works good and it's much faster than what they gave us, but then again Extra Holidays is a Wyndham revenue stream. The piece of crap of a website they rolled out for the owns was by design. Make it difficult for the owners to find and book a reservation so they can grab the prime locations and timeframes. If they can get Extra Holidays right, why not both websites. Big conflict of interest here, just like Wyndham controlling the HOAs. . .


As I understand it, Owners may reserve "good stuff" and assigned it to Extra Holiday for rental to recoup some of their maintenance fees, at a steep commission, of course.

How do you separate the "good stuff" you see in Extra Holidays that owners reserved from what Wyndham reserves?  At 60 days, Wyndham is allowed to reserve up to 90% of what is left, but that is usually not "good stuff".  And I doubt that Wyndham ever reserved something at 13 months, then cancel/rebooked within 60 days.


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## happyhopian (Jun 6, 2017)

CO skier said:


> I think you have the burden of proof reversed.  If a Club Member disagrees with the amendment(s) Wyndham makes to the Guidelines, it is up to the Member to prove that the changes are not in the best interest of the entire body.  Some Megarenters tried that after the last major changes, and they did not get far and none of the amendments to the Directory were changed back.


Yes but in this most recent change the impacts are being felt FAR beyond the mega renters at which point mom and pop start calling people and complaining and some elected somebody somewhere says, "I can get a front page story raking the guys over the coals" That doesn't happen when mega renters are getting screwed unless they know someone. This is where I see accountability for an industry that is related to pawn shops and payday loans in the public image. To that point, I don't see Wyndham taking liberty in changes for profit as they definitely don't want to be the next target of some up and coming prosecutor for breach of duty or even fraud. And understand I'm not talking civil so there is no burden on any owner to prove anything.


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## CO skier (Jun 6, 2017)

happyhopian said:


> This is where I see accountability for an industry that is related to pawn shops and payday loans in the public image.


"Everyone" thinks timeshares are a scam.  The public considering timeshares on the same level as pawn shops and payday loan operations would be an upgrade.


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## 55plus (Jun 8, 2017)

By launching the new website Wyndham harmed the owners by stealing our ability to efficiently locate availability. By removing the 'First Available' button, what use to take a couple click to locate availability at up to 5 resorts now can take 30 to 60 and even more clicks to locate availability, if you can even find something available. Basically Wyndham committed theft of our ability to use the product they sold by making it more than difficult to locate availability. 

Also, at locations that historically had availability at this time show no availability. Wyndham harmed the owners by incompetently launching a website that wasn't tested and hinders our ability to use the product they sold.


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