# Diamond Withdrawing From Interval Int.?



## Porkface (Apr 16, 2016)

Went to the required Sampler update yesterday at Royal Kona and we were told Diamond is in the process of severing their relationship with II.

The Diamond rep. said II has been bought by a competior so Diamond bought Kayak as their travel arranger but they are dropping the exchange function.

This may mean we can only exchange within the Club resourts. This will be catastrophic for us. We trade most of our points through II.

Has anyone else heard this ( or did we miss it in another forum post)?


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## DeniseM (Apr 16, 2016)

Three Words:  Sales people lie


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## Porkface (Apr 16, 2016)

Believe me, we know. Every time we go to one of Diamond's "Owner Updates" we come out feeling dirty. That said, this seems like a pretty big lie if it's not true.


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## clifffaith (Apr 16, 2016)

Having been smacked in the face last weekend with a $50K lie, I wouldn't believe anything a DRI salesperson had to say.  That being said, I'm puzzled on what the upside is to telling a victim during a sales presentation that outside exchanges are going away.  In fact, I'd a thunk that they would want to tout being able to exchange into non-DRI resorts and would keep the Kayak business under wraps as long as possible, if it's true.  I think most of us timeshare owners want to vacation in timeshares -- I associate Kayak with hotel rooms from the ads they run.  A hotel room is only acceptable to us these days when there is little to no timeshare availability, and no Marriott Residence Inn in the area.  I'm already fretting that our trip to Boston next month will not be at the Custom House for the first time in four trips -- how will I ever survive five nights in a hotel??!!


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## billymach4 (Apr 16, 2016)

*Lips are Movin!*

https://youtu.be/qDc_5zpBj7s


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## sue1947 (Apr 16, 2016)

clifffaith said:


> I'm puzzled on what the upside is to telling a victim during a sales presentation that outside exchanges are going away.



I believe the thinking is that you are more likely to buy from the sales liar if you think you won't be able to exchange into the resort.   It makes no sense for the company to do this.  Dropping exchanges would devalue the product and reduce the number of sales prospects (fresh meat) coming to the resort.   So I wouldn't give this sales person any credibility on this statement, or any other they made.  

Sue


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## clifffaith (Apr 16, 2016)

sue1947 said:


> I believe the thinking is that you are more likely to buy from the sales liar if you think you won't be able to exchange into the resort.   It makes no sense for the company to do this.  Dropping exchanges would devalue the product and reduce the number of sales prospects (fresh meat) coming to the resort.   So I wouldn't give this sales person any credibility on this statement, or any other they made.
> 
> Sue



Ah yes, Hawaii.  That makes sense.  They keep telling us how there will be no more resorts, then they buy a hotel to convert.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 16, 2016)

How would Kayak help them at all? Are they talking about Kayak? The metadata search site? Aren't they now owned by Priceline?


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## Porkface (Apr 17, 2016)

We obviously don't know if these statements are true or we wouldn't be posting here.

Our last two updates were slightly different. Rep mis-identified us as higher status owners than we are and sent us to a different catagory sales person.

Same happened this time due to adding Sampler points to our owner points. However, this was one of the most pleasant "UPDATES" we've suffered through. We may have actually learned a few things. However, as most have pointed out, DRI's employees all have degrees from MSU (Make Sh*t Up) so one can't believe anything they say. Which is why I posted this thread asking for other owner experiences.

Dropping II was explained as not relying on competitor owned company. Stated DRI purchased interest in Kayak as travel agency only. Rep said very few DRI owners used II (1%ish) so dropping not a big impact. Still able to exchange through the Club into other DRI units. This actually seems to fit DRI's business model of sucking people in, then changing the rules.

We purchased KBC as an Embassy property in 2001so we have lots of experience with DRI's MSU graduates. We're just trying to confirm what we were told about II.


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## pedro47 (Apr 17, 2016)

I believe more than 1% of Diamond owners used I.I.  I.I. has more and better resorts than Diamond International to choice from.  

The sales rep lips were moving very fast.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 17, 2016)

Porkface said:


> We obviously don't know if these statements are true or we wouldn't be posting here.
> 
> Our last two updates were slightly different. Rep mis-identified us as higher status owners than we are and sent us to a different catagory sales person.
> 
> ...



Just about any time someone comes along posting something that came from a sale reps mouth, you are going to find a lot of comments critical of the what the rep said. We have heard plenty of stories over the years that end up in the end not being true.

Finding someone else who has heard something similar is usually rare. We don't see many situations like these that can be corroborated. In most cases they end up not being true. If DRI has purchased some stake in Kayak, there would have been something in the news since both Priceline and DRI are publicly traded companies.


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## youppi (Apr 17, 2016)

1%, that's funny. Last year a rep told me that DRI was the biggest contributor of unit to II. If only 1% uses it how can they deposit more weeks than any others like Marriott's as example ? IMO, both statements are lies.


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## Michael1991 (Apr 17, 2016)

Here is what Diamonds says in their annual report (March 2016) under the section "Risk Factors":

"_We utilize external exchange program affiliations as sources of sales prospects and leads, and any failure to maintain such affiliations could reduce these prospects. _

"We have an affiliation agreement for an external exchange program with Interval International, which complements our own vacation ownership exchange programs. As a result of this affiliation, members of THE Club may use their points to reserve the use of a vacation accommodation at more than 3,000 resorts worldwide that participate in Interval International. In addition, interval owners at our managed resorts may join either Interval International or RCI, as their HOA constitutions dictate. Such interval owners may then deposit their deeded intervals in exchange for an alternative vacation destination. When our points and intervals are exchanged through Interval International or RCI, this inventory is made available to owners from other resorts, who are potential customers for our VOI sales. If we do not maintain our external exchange program affiliations, the number of individuals exchanging interests through these programs to stay at our managed resorts may decline substantially. Furthermore, the benefits associated with being a member of THE Club may be less desirable to current and prospective members."


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## Porkface (Apr 17, 2016)

Thanks for the replies. We were rather shocked when the sales rep told us about II/Kayak. We don't follow TUG as closely as some so we thought we may have missed an announcement. 

It seemed strange that the rep told us the II news more or less out of the blue but, thinking back, we did mention we traded/leveraged our points for more vacation time than we own. I guess the rep put it together and applied his MSU degree.

I'm not surprised, just dissapointed again. I really don't understand how DRI thinks it's good business to piss so many customers off. I guess they assume one's born every second.

Sales rep stated DRI has about 1.5 million owners and only about 10% are unhappy with their purchase(s). My impression is 10% is unrealistic. I'd believe 40 to 50% are unhappy. Just check this forum and the for sale ads. There are other units being given away but DRI unit are high on the list.

We did get one bit of good news. Apparently we kind of pissed the sales rep off when we didn't buy more points so he said he was going to add our names to the list of "No more Owner Updates." Yea!


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## Porkface (Apr 17, 2016)

Re:  Michael1991's post. Seems like dropping II would hurt DRI's business as your post points out, but if DRI has found an angle they think is to their advantage, I think they would do it regardless of their business literature. How many other times has DRI said one thing and done another. Do numbers go that high?


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## nuwermj (Apr 17, 2016)

Porkface said:


> Sales rep stated DRI has about 1.5 million owners and only about 10% are unhappy with their purchase(s). My impression is 10% is unrealistic. I'd believe 40 to 50% are unhappy. Just check this forum and the for sale ads. There are other units being given away but DRI unit are high on the list.



Diamond has stopped reporting ownership number, but 1.5 million is another lie. The last time owners were reported was at the end of 2013. At that time there were 527,000. Diamond defines an owner as anyone with any type of ownership at a Diamond managed resort. Most of these owners have deeds and are not members of THE Club. Since this time Diamond has added 30,000 Gold Key owners and 22,000 Intrawest owners.

Diamond has also stopped reporting club membership data. The last time this number was reported (September 2013) there were 172,000 club members (and 527,000 owners). Diamond counts both THE Club membership and the membership in the four Club Connections that they manage as club members.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 17, 2016)

Porkface said:


> Sales rep stated DRI has about 1.5 million owners and only about 10% are unhappy with their purchase(s). My impression is 10% is unrealistic. I'd believe 40 to 50% are unhappy. Just check this forum and the for sale ads. There are other units being given away but DRI unit are high on the list.



I think there is a difference with being dissatisfied with the product and dissatisfied with the purchase process. I would think there are a lot of people that don't like how the purchase and selling is done, but I would think that there are a lot of happy guests after checkout. Diamond has a pretty good product and decent resorts. Just don't go to a sale presentation.

Remember, most people go in to a sales presentation knowing nothing about TUG and nothing about resale. They probably have a pleasant experience if they go in with the plan to buy. No lies if you indicate upfront that you plan to buy. Challenge something and they have to come up with a lie to counter it.


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## awa (Apr 18, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> I think there is a difference with being dissatisfied with the product and dissatisfied with the purchase process. I would think there are a lot of people that don't like how the purchase and selling is done, but I would think that there are a lot of happy guests after checkout. Diamond has a pretty good product and decent resorts. Just don't go to a sale presentation.
> 
> Remember, most people go in to a sales presentation knowing nothing about TUG and nothing about resale. They probably have a pleasant experience if they go in with the plan to buy. No lies if you indicate upfront that you plan to buy. Challenge something and they have to come up with a lie to counter it.



I second this sentiment!  We have really enjoyed the DRI resorts and the program.  I often know more about how the program works than the salesperson (we do owners updates fairly frequently).  If I didn't, and I was bad at saying no, I would avoid sales presentations entirely.  They can be absolutely horrible when you don't have all the facts.


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## RLS50 (Apr 18, 2016)

dioxide45 said:


> but I would think that there are a lot of happy guests after checkout. Diamond has a pretty good product and decent resorts. Just don't go to a sale presentation.


I have heard this sentiment from a few Diamond Resort owners.  I certainly hope it proves to be true now that Diamond owns some of the properties we own at.

However, since they charge probably more than any other company after MF's and all the additional fees are added up, I think they should be the best and anybody who owns at a Diamond resort should expect nothing less than the best.  

That isn't being snarky or overly demanding, it is just simply the conditions and expectations that Diamond themselves have created.   When you charge the most in the industry, or close to it for your resorts and services, if you don't actually deliver additional value relative to your peers (i.e. Marriott, Starwood, Hilton, etc) then your customers will call you out on it or take their business elsewhere.

I'll know in the next 12-24 months what Diamond is based on what they do at the places we own at.


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## Porkface (Apr 18, 2016)

I agree with the posts on differentiating the purchase experience and the visit/vacation experience. We've been to many of the DRI owned and affiliated resorts in Hawaii (and Polo Tower in Vegas) and are always happy with our vacation experience. Staff is pleasant and helpful, resorts are clean and heck, it's Hawaii. We're still at the Royal Kona and while it's showing it's age, the rooms are clean and confortable, staff is helpful and it has a great oceanfront bar.

If we are in fact on the "Do Not Update" list, we are good with that. We'll just have to be more diligent following TUG and DRI's Owner web site.

Thanks for the responses.


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## tschwa2 (Apr 18, 2016)

I am not a fan of Diamond and my big beef with exchanging into them is the mandatory resort fees that they charge for services and amenities that many similar area timeshares include without an additional fee.  The only possible grain of truth about withdrawing from II is if II takes a stand and tells DRI that they can not charge these mandatory fees.  I could see DRI insisting and looking for another exchange company willing to conform to their exchange fee requirements.  

DRI and II already changed their agreement last year when the reduced point exchanges during flexchange dropped to 30 days prior vs the 59 days it once was.  

DRI might not be happy with II.  I don't see that as translating into dropping II unless they picked up RCI.  It seems like developers still need one of the big two in order to sell.


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## singlemalt_18 (Apr 18, 2016)

Porkface said:


> Our last two updates were slightly different. Rep mis-identified us as higher status owners than we are and sent us to a different catagory sales person.
> 
> Same happened this time due to adding Sampler points to our owner points.



It happened the last two times? Its BS. We were told the exact same thing while at KBR last October. They also "discovered" that we had a previously open offer "not closed out" properly "in the system" from some time back in the horse and buggy days.

At least my wife negotiated a $200 gift card for the meeting once we decided to accept at the last minute on a Sunday morning since it was a rainout! :rofl:

We had a fabulous evening at Sansei and bought a couple pounds of fresh roasted whole bean Hawaiian coffee with our $200 gift card.


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## Porkface (Apr 19, 2016)

We think losing II would be a major blow to DRI but I'mnot sure DRI would see it that way. Maybe it depends on who the majority of  buyers are. First time TS buyers may not realize the value of exchanging. 

Anyone have an idea of first time buyer vs. experienced buyer ratios for DRI? We've bought twice but before DRI took over. I don't think we'll ever buy from DRI because 1) you can't trust _anything_ you're told and 2) since DRI has taken over, they keep inventing ways to devalue what we purchase so we'll buy more. If all owners are Platinum, the sales rep mentioned creating Diamond tier/status as the next higher level, He also mentioned DRI making the new Kona resort being Gold or Platinum or higher to get in. Apparently this is not going to happen.

We've also noticed point values creeping up, at least indirectly. As we remember (and we don't have our contracts with us) KBC takes 8500 points/week for Ocean View with only weeks 50 or 51 and 52 as being higher. The newer DRI resort  book shows 8 weeks in 2016 at higher rates. That said we booked into KBC for New Years week this year and Christmas week a few years ago for 8500 points. See #1 above.

We've had the same "not closed out properly" routine the last few update but not this one. I think the sales rep realized we weren't buying and didn't bother. Or maybe it was when he brought out the waiver form and I told him I wasn't signing another one. See #1 above.


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## nuwermj (Apr 19, 2016)

Porkface said:


> Anyone have an idea of first time buyer vs. experienced buyer ratios for DRI?



Diamond claims that of the people who make a purchase, 63% are existing point owners, 17% are people who own something at a DRI managed resort and have made a first time points purchase, and 20% are completely new to the Diamond system. Diamond's competitive strategy is to "buy" perspective point owners through their acquisitions -- like Gold Key owners or Intrawest owners. 17-20 percent of Diamond's sales comes from this group.

For a comparison ... Marriott Vacations says: "On the first-time buyers versus existing customers, you've heard us say in the past that, historically, as a Company, we have been a roughly 50/50 mix of first-time buyers and existing customers. As 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 rolled around, that number got to be 40% first-time buyers and 60% existing customers. We have said that we aspire to get back towards that 50/50 number."

Bluegreen says this: "During 2015, owner sales accounted for 47% of Bluegreen’s system-wide sales. However, Bluegreen has recently increased, and expects to continue to increase, its marketing efforts to new customers as compared to existing owners as it believes that its ability to continue to sell VOIs to its current existing owner base will diminish over time."


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## dougp26364 (Apr 19, 2016)

nuwermj said:


> Diamond claims that of the people who make a purchase, 63% are existing point owners, 17% are people who own something at a DRI managed resort and have made a first time points purchase, and 20% are completely new to the Diamond system. Diamond's competitive strategy is to "buy" perspective point owners through their acquisitions -- like Gold Key owners or Intrawest owners. 17-20 percent of Diamond's sales comes from this group.
> 
> For a comparison ... Marriott Vacations says: "On the first-time buyers versus existing customers, you've heard us say in the past that, historically, as a Company, we have been a roughly 50/50 mix of first-time buyers and existing customers. As 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 rolled around, that number got to be 40% first-time buyers and 60% existing customers. We have said that we aspire to get back towards that 50/50 number."
> 
> Bluegreen says this: "During 2015, owner sales accounted for 47% of Bluegreen’s system-wide sales. However, Bluegreen has recently increased, and expects to continue to increase, its marketing efforts to new customers as compared to existing owners as it believes that its ability to continue to sell VOIs to its current existing owner base will diminish over time."



This is interesting. Essentially I'm reading this as DRI is churning it's current customer base for "new" sales. If that's the case I could potentially see where they believe they can stop participation in external exchange programs and go 100% internal. 

I've seen companies and salesman that "churn" business. It's never ended in success, only eventual failure, much like a pyramid scheme.

I really don't think they'll withdraw from I.I., I think it's just another salesman's exaggeration of the truth. If they do, I'll only miss the availability in Sedona and maybe Santa Fe. In Sedona I'd just as soon exchange into the Hyatt and Santa Fe is nice, but I can live without it. It's not as if DRI is the only game in town and they certainly rarely, if ever, have the best location. Nice resorts yes, but there are other options just as good and some better.


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## dioxide45 (Apr 19, 2016)

nuwermj said:


> Diamond claims that of the people who make a purchase, 63% are existing point owners, 17% are people who own something at a DRI managed resort and have made a first time points purchase, and 20% are completely new to the Diamond system. Diamond's competitive strategy is to "buy" perspective point owners through their acquisitions -- like Gold Key owners or Intrawest owners. 17-20 percent of Diamond's sales comes from this group.
> 
> For a comparison ... Marriott Vacations says: "On the first-time buyers versus existing customers, you've heard us say in the past that, historically, as a Company, we have been a roughly 50/50 mix of first-time buyers and existing customers. As 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 rolled around, that number got to be 40% first-time buyers and 60% existing customers. We have said that we aspire to get back towards that 50/50 number."
> 
> Bluegreen says this: "During 2015, owner sales accounted for 47% of Bluegreen’s system-wide sales. However, Bluegreen has recently increased, and expects to continue to increase, its marketing efforts to new customers as compared to existing owners as it believes that its ability to continue to sell VOIs to its current existing owner base will diminish over time."



It is all about market share. If you can acquire new customers, you are usually tanking them from someone else. So if someone buys new at a Marriott, they are perhaps less likely to buy from another developer, at least for a while. I think the 50/50 mix is probably a good target for most developers. Of course, your best customer is also usually your current customer.


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## Porkface (Apr 20, 2016)

A few hours after my last post yesterday I received a telephone call from a Regional Vice President at DRI. The VP wanted to reassure me that, to his knowledge, DRI has no plans to end it's business relationship with II. For us this is good news.


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## pedro47 (Apr 20, 2016)

Please!! Can we move to a new topic.


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