# Potential new owner - questions!!



## Caperguy (Aug 31, 2015)

Hi,
Sorry if some of these are elsewhere here...sort of in a rush to get some feedback.

We did the sales pitch at Parc Soleil in Orlando last week, and we think it's a potentially good fit for our family in the long run. After the initial debt is paid off, the yearly fees would certainly be less than our regular hotel bills (we typically take a week vacation, and would need the 1-bdr. We got the Platinum 4600 points at Seaworld, every second year, approx $17k) and we'd get quality hotel rooms at places we haven't been or ones near Disney, for example, with the affiliated locations.

We're just wondering how people like the system, ease of booking affiliated locations, carrying over points, transferring them to HHIlton points if unused, this type of travel investment, etc.

One question that hadn't been answered was the price - they seemed to pluck it from mid-air for the plat - 1bedroom. Makes sense I think but found it strange the first time I saw the price was when the finance guy was doing up the monthly charges.

our 10 days isn't up yet and we're still second guessing ourselves. The conversion of unused points at 25 per point to HHonors doesn't really seem worth it (4600x25 might get us 3 nights at a low traffic city -- 40,000 pts/night)

Anyone ever sell their property back to Hilton?

thanks all!!

I should say that we're from Canada. Major obstacle in our minds, too, is that we'd need to fly to any of the resorts. We just started travelling with our young kids, so haven't gotten in a routine of flying too many places. Hopefully in time we'd do that more and maybe this would help with that, knowing we'd have a good place to stay?


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## Ty1on (Aug 31, 2015)

Oops quoted myself instead of editing


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## Ty1on (Aug 31, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=parc+soleil&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xparc+soleil+in+timeshare.TRS0&_nkw=parc+soleil+in+timeshare&_sacat=0



Rescind while you can.  They will offer you the same or better deal if you learn more and then for some reason decide to pay developer prices.


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## raygo123 (Aug 31, 2015)

Start the paper work now and listen for your answrr

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## vacationtime1 (Sep 1, 2015)

Rescind.

A timeshare is a luxury purchase.  If you have to finance it, you cannot afford it.

A one bedroom is not big enough for your family long term -- and you should think at least somewhat long term on a purchase of this magnitude.  

This should not be an impulse purchase made on vacation.

Take your time; research carefully (I suspect you spent several times what 4800 points cost on the resale market, but I will leave that for the Hilton experts).


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## Karen G (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> our 10 days isn't up yet and we're still second guessing ourselves.


If there are any doubts whatsoever and if there is anything you don't understand, get out now before your ten days are up. Do more research. Read everything you can on TUG and ask lots of questions. Educate yourself on the various timeshare systems and programs.

That deal will still be there, along with hundreds of others, once you have learned all you need to know.


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## Great3 (Sep 1, 2015)

Mainly because $17K for every other year is way too expensive, when you can get 4800 pts every year for about $3K-$5k or 7000 pts every year for about $5K-$8K on the resale market, that's why everybody is telling you to rescind.

So yes, rescind if you can, and learn about HGVC here on tugbbs and than try your hand at resale market when you are ready.

Great3


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## Jason245 (Sep 1, 2015)

Great3 said:


> Mainly because $17K for every other year is way too expensive, when you can get 4800 pts every year for about $3K-$5k or 7000 pts every year for about $5K-$8K on the resale market, that's why everybody is telling you to rescind.
> 
> So yes, rescind if you can, and learn about HGVC here on tugbbs and than try your hand at resale market when you are ready.
> 
> Great3


Do this.  

As an aside,  hgvc has affiliate resorts in Canada. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

Thanks for the replies.  I think we'd lose our deposit,  but seems like more research would help us out.


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## mtm65 (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> Thanks for the replies.  I think we'd lose our deposit,  but seems like more research would help us out.



Not sure about your situation but we did not lose our deposit when we rescinded last year.  We bought resale after we rescinded and we are very happy with our 7000 HGVC points.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 1, 2015)

While I certainly think it is wise to rescind (do it ASAP) and buy resale (take your time), I would not recommend going to eBay to purchase. For a new buyer, buying a resale timeshare on eBay is filled with even more land mines than buying from a developer. While quality developers like Hilton, Marriott, Starwood, etc will spin the facts, stretch the truth, and otherwise do whatever they can to sell you on their product, they are not outright frauds. While there are many honest resellers on eBay, there are also frauds and crooks - and it's hard to tell the difference. 

I would recommend going to one of the several independent resale brokers often recommended here on TUG. Just so you can see how much you can really save by buying resale, here is a link to the Hilton resales page from one of those brokers:

http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/category/listings/hilton/

Resale timeshares are the same exact product as you spend $17K for from Hilton. Rescind; do more research into the Hilton program to make sure it is the right one for you; then go to one of the independent resale brokers and save many thousands of dollars. As others have said, you can buy 4800 points at SeaWorld *every year* from a reputable broker for less than $4000. I bet an every other year like you paid $17K for would be less than $2000. Your ongoing annual costs will be exactly the same with resale vs a developer purchase.

And as others have said, I believe the recession statutes require that the developer refund all monies - including the deposit - if rescinded properly within the recession period.


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> While I certainly think it is wise to rescind (do it ASAP) and buy resale (take your time), I would not recommend going to eBay to purchase. For a new buyer, buying a resale timeshare on eBay is filled with even more land mines than buying from a developer. While quality developers like Hilton, Marriott, Starwood, etc will spin the facts, stretch the truth, and otherwise do whatever they can to sell you on their product, they are not outright frauds. While there are many honest resellers on eBay, there are also frauds and crooks - and it's hard to tell the difference.
> 
> I would recommend going to one of the several independent resale brokers often recommended here on TUG. Just so you can see how much you can really save by buying resale, here is a link to the Hilton resales page from one of those brokers:
> 
> ...



thank you all again and this one was very helpful

one question about your post....your $2,000 figure - are you suggesting this could be a price we could possibly pay every second year on an ongoing basis? We'll certainly have to look around. We like the idea, but paying/financing $17k up front just doesn't fit right now, and would take years and years of uses to get full benefit.

I checked our contract and it is 10 days with no obligation, so I e-mailed them to see what 'in writing' means to cancel. It would appear a refund of down payment should be the case.


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## presley (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> We're just wondering how people like the system, ease of booking affiliated locations, carrying over points, transferring them to HHIlton points if unused, this type of travel investment, etc.
> 
> Anyone ever sell their property back to Hilton?



It's a good system if you want to stay in their timeshares. If you want to trade your timeshare points for hotel points, you end throwing money away as you end up with only a few night instead of a full week. You can trade your timeshare points in RCI for other resorts, but the majority of those are not Hilton quality.

Since you are in Canada and would have to fly to all the Hiltons, I don't think you should buy Hilton. I think you'd be happier with a different system that had more locations closer to you. 

I recently contacted Hilton resales to see if they would sell some of mine and they told me that I have to sell through Judi Kozlowski, who is a well known resale agent on this site. You can buy resale through her if you are interested in, but it doesn't sound like Hilton is the best fit for you.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 1, 2015)

emailing a question to the seller about rescinding ... they will reply on day 11 ... that does NOT EXTEND your rescind date.

There is an address to SEND the written and sign rescind letter:
Date of Letter

We, Joe & Jane Smith, exercise our right to rescind contract #12345 brought on 08/xx/15 at SUCH & SUCH.

Please refund all deposits paid IMMEDIATELY to the credit card used for this purchase.

All material manuals received will be sent under separate cover.

Thank you,
Joe Smith (signature)
Jane Smith (signature)

Sent via Certified Mail: 1234 1234 1234 1234
Copy sent via Regular Mail

No EMAIL ... not legally binding!

And don't take ANY phone calls .. they are NOT your friend(s) - all they WANT is a commission check.


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## JIMinNC (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> thank you all again and this one was very helpful
> 
> one question about your post....your $2,000 figure - are you suggesting this could be a price we could possibly pay every second year on an ongoing basis? We'll certainly have to look around. We like the idea, but paying/financing $17k up front just doesn't fit right now, and would take years and years of uses to get full benefit.
> 
> I checked our contract and it is 10 days with no obligation, so I e-mailed them to see what 'in writing' means to cancel. It would appear a refund of down payment should be the case.



If you look at the page I linked to above, the costs you see are the *upfront purchase costs*, not the ongoing annual maintenance fee costs. So, instead of paying $17K for an every-other-year SeaWord 4800 point contract, you can see you can buy an *every year* SeaWord 4800 point contract for no more than $3900 (and that's the seller's asking price, you can usually offer less and maybe they will accept - just like buying a house). There is no every-other-year contract listed right now on the site I linked to, but usually the upfront cost for an every-other-year is no more than about half or so of the every year cost, so that's why I estimated $2000 for an every-other-year resale. So for $2000 or less, you should be able to buy the same product you are paying Hilton $17K for. Timeshares resell for only a fraction of what developers charge.

So if you decide to stick with an every-other-year SeaWorld 4800 point contract, even though one of those is not listed right now, you should be able to eventually find one from the site linked above (SellingTimeshares.com) or you could try the other reseller mentioned above (Judi Kozlowski) to see if she has one listed.

The ongoing costs are exactly the same regardless of whether you buy from Hilton or resale. So for a 1BR 4800 point platinum at SeaWorld, based on the list of annual fees in the sticky at the top of this forum, I think that is about $711 plus the $140 HGVC club fee for a total of $851. So if you buy an every-other-year, you would pay the $711 every-other-year and the club dues every year, I think. If you buy an every year, you would pay $851 every year.


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## clotheshorse (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> thank you all again and this one was very helpful
> 
> one question about your post....your $2,000 figure - are you suggesting this could be a price we could possibly pay every second year on an ongoing basis? We'll certainly have to look around. We like the idea, but paying/financing $17k up front just doesn't fit right now, and would take years and years of uses to get full benefit.
> 
> I checked our contract and it is 10 days with no obligation, so I e-mailed them to see what 'in writing' means to cancel. It would appear a refund of down payment should be the case.



To answer your question, yes, you can get an every other contract resale for less than 2,000.  In fact, I purchased 4800 points last year from one of the suggested brokers for $1,000.  I am so happy with my purchase; I love the flexibility of program and locations.  Also, I haven't heard of losing a deposit when you rescind.  Like others have said, rescind as soon as you can and do your family a favor and buy resale.


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> emailing a question to the seller about rescinding ... they will reply on day 11 ... that does NOT EXTEND your rescind date.
> 
> There is an address to SEND the written and sign rescind letter:
> Date of Letter
> ...



cool... what materials are you suggesting we send back? We got a cd/thumb storage, RCI book, our contract, etc...what do they care if we send all that back?

Our salesperson said a fax is good...perhaps I'll do that first, then do the written copy by registered mail (as long as it is sent by day 10)


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## JIMinNC (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> cool... what materials are you suggesting we send back? We got a cd/thumb storage, RCI book, our contract, etc...what do they care if we send all that back?
> 
> Our salesperson said a fax is good...perhaps I'll do that first, then do the written copy by registered mail (as long as it is sent by day 10)



If you look at the piece of paper you probably signed on the Right of Rescission, it should specify exactly what you need to do. Usually it requires return of all materials provided.


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> If you look at the piece of paper you probably signed on the Right of Rescission, it should specify exactly what you need to do. Usually it requires return of all materials provided.



I just checked....the single page that lists the documents we saw/have says to send request to Las Vegas....our contract specifically says Orlando. No where states we need to return stuff.

I have e-mailed our sales person (who had replied to me about something this morning) and QAM to ask what to do. I"ll send a letter to both if I have to.


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## Karen G (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> Thanks for the replies.  I think we'd lose our deposit,  but seems like more research would help us out.


By the very definition of rescission you should not lose any money. To rescind a contract means to cancel it. Both parties are put back to the position they were in before the contract was  made. You should get all your money back.


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

Karen G said:


> By the very definition of rescission you should not lose any money. To rescind a contract means to cancel it. Both parties are put back to the position they were in before the contract was  made. You should get all your money back.



thanks, yes, I see that in the contract now.

As long as I fax them, and mail the request today (which may not make it in their hands tomorrow, but as long as "sent" date stamp is within the 10 days), we should be fine


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## Karen G (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> I have e-mailed our sales person (who had replied to me about something this morning) and QAM to ask what to do. I"ll send a letter to both if I have to.


Don't talk to a sales person. They will try to talk you into NOT rescinding. You need to get your rescission in the mail and then send back any binders or whatever materials by separate means in the most economical way possible.


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## Ty1on (Sep 1, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> While I certainly think it is wise to rescind (do it ASAP) and buy resale (take your time), I would not recommend going to eBay to purchase. For a new buyer, buying a resale timeshare on eBay is filled with even more land mines than buying from a developer. While quality developers like Hilton, Marriott, Starwood, etc will spin the facts, stretch the truth, and otherwise do whatever they can to sell you on their product, they are not outright frauds. While there are many honest resellers on eBay, there are also frauds and crooks - and it's hard to tell the difference.
> 
> I would recommend going to one of the several independent resale brokers often recommended here on TUG. Just so you can see how much you can really save by buying resale, here is a link to the Hilton resales page from one of those brokers:
> 
> ...



Yeah, I just posted that for an idea of the value for which he was paying $17K.  I don't dabble in Hilton so didn't know a legitimate reseller to link.


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

Karen G said:


> Don't talk to a sales person. They will try to talk you into NOT rescinding. You need to get your rescission in the mail and then send back any binders or whatever materials by separate means in the most economical way possible.



If they don't get back to me, where should I send it....the address in our contract or the address in the documents overview/rescinding information?

I'll send a letter to both if I have to


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## Talent312 (Sep 1, 2015)

This is a bad-deal.  Stop talking to the sales-peep... They will mess you up, intentionally.

Send your rescission notice in the manner and to the address stated in the *contract*...
If you follow the contract EXACTLY as stated, you will qualify to get all your $$ back!
If it says "mail:" Do not fax, e-mail, text, twit, or fed-ex (except as a duplicate).
Even there's a better way, use the contract-method. Otherwise, they do not have to honor it.

-------------------------------
That said... Hilton is an honorable corporation and will do the right thing.
As a program:  HGVC is a very flexible, consumer-friendly program and we like it.
Resale buyers get all the same perks as retail buyers -- no difference in how its used. 
_... except that resale points do not count toward elite-status @14K (which you do not need)._

Check out the resale listings at http://www.judikoz.com and http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/
These are two highly regarded, reputable brokers.
.


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## Karen G (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> If they don't get back to me, where should I send it....the address in our contract or the address in the documents overview/rescinding information?
> 
> I'll send a letter to both if I have to


 I would go with the address in the rescinding information, but if it will make you feel better send it to both. Just be sure to get a receipt from the post office showing the date you mailed it. That is the key. It's the date you mail it, not the date they receive it, that proves you rescinded within the 10-day rescission period.


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

Talent312 said:


> This is a bad-deal.  Stop talking to the sales-peep. They will mess you up, intentionally.
> 
> Send your rescission notice in the manner and to the address stated in the contract...
> EXACTLY as stated.  If it says "mail," do not fax, text, e-mail, twit, or fed-ex.



The contract states purchaser shall notify seller "in writing" and is effective as of the "date sent". I will notify them by fax that the official request is coming by mail.
Make sense?


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

Karen G said:


> I would go with the address in the rescinding information, but if it will make you feel better send it to both. Just be sure to get a receipt from the post office showing the date you mailed it. That is the key. It's the date you mail it, not the date they receive it, that proves you rescinded within the 10-day rescission period.



awesome...will do


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## Caperguy (Sep 1, 2015)

Quality Assurance Manager said my e-mail and fax were sufficient to cancel. I'm still leery because of the Las Vegas reference in the documents. I may still send the request by registered mail to Orlando and LV.

And she said because we're in Canada, we don't have to send everything back (to save us the cost). Nice couple of people we dealt with down there (Parc Soleil).


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## JIMinNC (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> Quality Assurance Manager said my e-mail and fax were sufficient to cancel. I'm still leery because of the Las Vegas reference in the documents. I may still send the request by registered mail to Orlando and LV.
> 
> And she said because we're in Canada, we don't have to send everything back (to save us the cost). Nice couple of people we dealt with down there (Parc Soleil).



This raises an interesting question...

The advice offered here on TUG is almost always, "Rescind in writing, certified mail, no fax or email, etc, etc" Obviously, that is the result of rescissions being denied by developers for not following the instructions exactly, to the letter. I could see that could be a loophole that some of the less ethical developers might use to nullify rescissions; but has this ever been a serious issue with the more ethical developers like Hilton, Marriott, etc.? Has anyone ever had a recession denied by Hilton/Marriott/etc. because they faxed the request instead of mailed, followed up by phone/email, etc and made an obvious good faith attempt to cancel?

I agree it makes sense to do exactly as written to be sure, but in practice, is that really a problem with the big, well-known brands as long as a reasonable attempt is being made to notify of the cancellation?


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## Karen G (Sep 1, 2015)

Caperguy said:


> Quality Assurance Manager said my e-mail and fax were sufficient to cancel.





JIMinNC said:


> I agree it makes sense to do exactly as written to be sure, but in practice, is that really a problem with the big, well-known brands as long as a reasonable attempt is being made to notify of the cancellation?



I don't recall anyone reporting that their rescission notification was denied by the "big, well-known brands" but I'd hate for the OP to be the first.  If one follows the instructions in the contract exactly as stated, there won't be an issue.


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## MelanieB (Sep 2, 2015)

presley said:


> Since you are in Canada and would have to fly to all the Hiltons, I don't think you should buy Hilton. I think you'd be happier with a different system that had more locations closer to you.



Maybe, but not necessarily.  I am in Canada, I own Hilton, and it suits my family's needs well.  There are some drivable locations near us available through Club Intrawest and RCI, but mostly we do fly.  Much of our desire to travel is for a winter escape, and we'd be flying for that anyway, timeshare or otherwise.  I like the flexibility of the Hilton system, since we don't always stay in the same place.  Over the past few years we've stayed in Hilton managed properties, Club Intrawest and RCI trades, all on our small 4800 annual point contract.

Also keep in mind that "Canada" is a big place, and in many areas the drivable timeshare options would be few to none in any system.  Most of the timeshares that do exist here are concentrated in the Western Mountains, or "cottage country" in Central Ontario.  Depending on the OPs precise location and vacation preferences, those might or might not suit.  Just depends on what he is looking for; the key is to do the research and be sure he knows what they are getting into.


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## Talent312 (Sep 2, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> Is that really a problem with the big, well-known brands as long as a reasonable attempt is being made to notify of the cancellation?



Not that I seen on TUG (since 2007).
Given their volume of sales and clientele, I doubt they care to ruffle feathers.
However, you should still show that you can read and follow directions, like an 5th grader.
.


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## Caperguy (Sep 2, 2015)

MelanieB said:


> Maybe, but not necessarily.  I am in Canada, I own Hilton, and it suits my family's needs well.  There are some drivable locations near us available through Club Intrawest and RCI, but mostly we do fly.  Much of our desire to travel is for a winter escape, and we'd be flying for that anyway, timeshare or otherwise.  I like the flexibility of the Hilton system, since we don't always stay in the same place.  Over the past few years we've stayed in Hilton managed properties, Club Intrawest and RCI trades, all on our small 4800 annual point contract.
> 
> Also keep in mind that "Canada" is a big place, and in many areas the drivable timeshare options would be few to none in any system.  Most of the timeshares that do exist here are concentrated in the Western Mountains, or "cottage country" in Central Ontario.  Depending on the OPs precise location and vacation preferences, those might or might not suit.  Just depends on what he is looking for; the key is to do the research and be sure he knows what they are getting into.



I agree with you that we liked the idea of staying in various places, having some flexibility and knowing the quality of the rooms would be there (not have to go searching for what we hoped to be quality, sufficient rooms in who-knows-where). That being said, we are in Nova Scotia, so only one affiliated location is within driving distance. However, if we get a resale timeshare, similar to your size, for a reasonable cost (not the $17k they were talking about), then paying for plane tickets every 2-3 years doesn't seem so bad, since your hotel is already paid for! (I know, except yearly maint fees/tax).

We have two kids, and there are locations that are quite intriguing near Orlando and California. We'll do our research now, as we are quite interested in this concept. Now just have to find the right fit.

We really thank you all for saving us from buying retail and taking on that debt. We're never impulse buyers, but almost caught this one too late.


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## Ty1on (Sep 2, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> This raises an interesting question...
> 
> The advice offered here on TUG is almost always, "Rescind in writing, certified mail, no fax or email, etc, etc" Obviously, that is the result of rescissions being denied by developers for not following the instructions exactly, to the letter. I could see that could be a loophole that some of the less ethical developers might use to nullify rescissions; but has this ever been a serious issue with the more ethical developers like Hilton, Marriott, etc.? Has anyone ever had a recession denied by Hilton/Marriott/etc. because they faxed the request instead of mailed, followed up by phone/email, etc and made an obvious good faith attempt to cancel?
> 
> I agree it makes sense to do exactly as written to be sure, but in practice, is that really a problem with the big, well-known brands as long as a reasonable attempt is being made to notify of the cancellation?



I think you raise a valid point about legitimate developers with good reputations, but here is my counter:  Even if they say a fax and email is sufficient and mean it, how much harm is there in protecting your interests by sending a certified letter with return receipt in addition to the methods the nice sales people told you would suffice?


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## JIMinNC (Sep 2, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> I think you raise a valid point about legitimate developers with good reputations, but here is my counter:  Even if they say a fax and email is sufficient and mean it, how much harm is there in protecting your interests by sending a certified letter with return receipt in addition to the methods the nice sales people told you would suffice?



Absolutely. As I said in my last sentence in my previous post, sending the notification exactly as prescribed is certainly the best path. I wasn't trying to say a buyer should not do exactly as the instructions say. Better to be safe. I was just questioning whether respectable companies like Hilton and Marriott with brands and reputations to protect would, in practice, actually try to use a technicality to invalidate a legitimate rescission.


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## Ty1on (Sep 2, 2015)

JIMinNC said:


> Absolutely. As I said in my last sentence in my previous post, sending the notification exactly as prescribed is certainly the best path. I wasn't trying to say a buyer should not do exactly as the instructions say. Better to be safe. I was just questioning whether respectable companies like Hilton and Marriott with brands and reputations to protect would, in practice, actually try to use a technicality to invalidate a legitimate rescission.



I personally think they would have more to lose in goodwill than they would gain by screwing over individual rescinders.  I wish all developers could see that.


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## x.david.you (Sep 23, 2015)

clotheshorse said:


> To answer your question, yes, you can get an every other contract resale for less than 2,000.  In fact, I purchased 4800 points last year from one of the suggested brokers for $1,000.  I am so happy with my purchase; I love the flexibility of program and locations.  Also, I haven't heard of losing a deposit when you rescind.  Like others have said, rescind as soon as you can and do your family a favor and buy resale.




Hi may I know how you purchased your 4800 DC points just for $1000? Thanks.


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