# Building collapse in Miami/Surfside Beach [MERGED]



## rapmarks (Jun 24, 2021)

What a terrible tragedy, I recognize the building from my timeshare stays.  This building was right next to solara  Surfside, a Bluegreen resort.  The Bluegreen building was evacuated during the night and has been closed for inspection. The timeshare people were evacuated to  a park district building.  .  The bluegreen boards are full of messages from people staying at Solara or about to check in And now have nowhere to go.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Jun 24, 2021)

I saw this on the TV news this morning, agreed its a terrible tragedy.  They said the building is from the early 80s, i wonder what could have caused such a massive failure..


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## Roger830 (Jun 24, 2021)

Here's a video showing the collapse which started in the center, left the ocean side columns standing which then collapsed.









						Miami police probe collapse of condo that left one dead and 99 missing
					

A huge emergency search and rescue operation is underway after the beachfront condo tower, Champlain Towers South, collapsed at about 1.30am on Thursday.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## AnnaS (Jun 24, 2021)

This is heartbreaking.  I heard on one of the channels it might have been sinking.  But who knows, I am sure there will be lot's of rumors until we find out the actual cause.  

Keeping everyone involved in my thoughts and prayers.


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## TravelTime (Jun 24, 2021)

It is a terrible tragedy.


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## easyrider (Jun 24, 2021)

I wonder if the buildings foundation was undermined by the ocean currents or a sink hole. Orange Lake Resort lost a building because of a sink hole and a few homes have been damaged by sink holes in Florida. 

Bill


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## Glynda (Jun 24, 2021)

When I heard it was at Surfside, I wondered how close to Bluegreen's Solara Surfside. Had a wonderful stay there a few years ago.  How awful the whole thing is!  Imagine waiting to know if your family or friends will be rescued.


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## moonstone (Jun 24, 2021)

Looks like it was caused by a sinkhole, not structural damage from salty air rusting the metal beams/rebar. 
Building collapse in Miami: Structure had been sinking into the earth (usatoday.com) 

~Diane


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## easyrider (Jun 24, 2021)

moonstone said:


> Looks like it was caused by a sinkhole, not structural damage from salty air rusting the metal beams/rebar.
> Building collapse in Miami: Structure had been sinking into the earth (usatoday.com)
> 
> ~Diane



I wonder how many buildings have been sinking in Florida. 30 years seems like enough time to figure something out, imo.

Bill


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## DrQ (Jun 24, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I wonder how many buildings have been sinking in Florida. 30 years seems like enough time to figure something out, imo.
> 
> Bill


Not limited to florida:









						After sinking 18 inches, SF's Millennium Tower finally has a fix
					

San Francisco's beleaguered Millennium Tower is still sinking, but a fix is finally on...




					www.sfgate.com


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## DrQ (Jun 24, 2021)

Collapsed Miami beach condo tower hadn't been certified since 1981
					

Champlain Towers South was completed in 1981 but hasn't been updated significantly since then. There are 136 condos inside and most belong to first-time homeowners.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




Hopefully, they will decrease the time between certifications.


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## easyrider (Jun 24, 2021)

When we were staying at a resort near Loreto Mexico we visited a small community called Nopolo. Very nice and new on our first visit. Several years latter we were at the same resort and checking out the same areas and some of these new villas had problems from sinking. These are basically  concrete block buildings that get stucco. The cracks in the stucco usually follow a mortar line and the lines were not level. 

I noticed this at a nice resort we go to in Cabo as well. I watched them place mortar over the crack before painting. 

Bill


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## amycurl (Jun 25, 2021)

Maybe building massive buildings on moving sandbars isn’t the smartest move? I feel terrible about the lives lost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## timesharer (Jun 25, 2021)

The building was sinking at a rate of about 2 millimeters a year in the 1990s, and the sinking could have slowed or accelerated in the time since, according to a 2020 study conducted by Shimon Wdowinski, a professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Florida International University.





						USA TODAY
					






					www.usatoday.com
				




Biden approves Florida emergency declaration after Miami building collapse leaves 3 dead, 99 missing - ABC News (go.com)

I am sorry that Florida building collapsed.  But if the building has been sinking, why the officials continue to let people live there. 

I thought the SF's Millennium Tower was going to collapse, But now it said it has a fix.
We will see.









						SF’s landmark tower for rich and famous is sinking and tilting
					

The Millennium Tower, a leading symbol of San Francisco’s new high-rise and high-end...




					www.sfgate.com
				



















I do not mean to be insensitive.  But these rich people wanted to live there to be connected with richer people should know the consequences.
Hope we taxpayers will not need to pay for SF's Millennium Tower when it collapses.


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## TravelTime (Jun 25, 2021)

This is very sad. I hope going forward people will make fixes to buildings and develop high rises that will not sink or otherwise collapse. This problem could get worse with the consequences of global warming. I have read that many buildings are sinking and with the shoreline eroding, it can be unsafe to build too close to the beach or ocean.

In terms of disaster relief, I am in favor of helping the residents of this building. This was a very old building so the residents of this building are probably not rich. In fact, there could be many elderly people living here since it was built in the 1990s well before Miami Beach (Surfside) was popular.

I think SF Millennium is a different situation. This was developer error and it was known right from the beginning.


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## Brett (Jun 25, 2021)

yes, terrible tragedy
"salty coastal air facilitated the erosion of steel" could happen anywhere on the coast.   Obviously Miami Dade building code inspections frequency needs to be updated


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## Sugarcubesea (Jun 25, 2021)

This is so horrible, my heart breaks for all that have relatives, family and friends at Surfside.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

The collapsed Florida condo was part of a 2015 lawsuit where a resident complained the outer
 walls weren't being properly maintained.










						The collapsed Florida condo was part of a 2015 lawsuit where a resident complained the outer walls weren't being properly maintained
					

A resident of the Surfside building that partially collapsed on Thursday took its owners to court over building-maintenance issues, records show.




					www.insider.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

Security footage shows Florida condo being pelted
 with debris moments before collapse.










						Security footage shows Florida condo being pelted with debris moments before collapse
					

A resident of the Champlain Towers, which partially collapsed on June 24, 2021 due to the sinking foundation, shared footage from inside her apartment mere moments before the building collapsed.




					nypost.com
				



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Richard


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## Roger830 (Jun 25, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Security footage shows Florida condo being pelted
> with debris moments before collapse.
> 
> 
> ...



There is some motion which might indicate that her condo was an oceanside unit that collapsed after the center section. It was swaying prior to the collapsing.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

Lawsuit seeking $5 million says victims of Miami
 condominium collapse deserve compensation.










						Lawsuit seeking $5 million says victims of Florida condominium collapse deserve compensation
					

A lawsuit has been filed after the Champlain Towers South condominium in Surfside, Florida partially collapsed Thursday morning.



					www.usatoday.com
				





Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

Number Of Unaccounted People Rises To 159 At Surfside Condo Building Collapse.










						Number Of People Missing Rises To 159 In Surfside Condo Building Collapse
					

"We will continue search and rescue because we still have hope that we will find people alive," said Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava. The number of fatalities has risen to four.




					www.kosu.org
				



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Richard


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## moonstone (Jun 25, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I wonder how many buildings have been sinking in Florida. 30 years seems like enough time to figure something out, imo.
> 
> Bill


Remember the timeshare building at Summer Bay that collapsed in 2013 from the same thing.   Florida is so full of areas like that you'd think they would change the building codes or requirements.
The area we winter in down in Belize is also prone to sink holes and as slow as that government is on things they do have a rule that in certain areas public buildings (including rental accommodations) need to have pilings driven down into bedrock for their foundations.  We have a friend who just built about a 1200 sq ft house and used pilings as well, two of them had to go down over 30 feet!

~Diane


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

Here's what we know so far about those missing in Florida condo collapse.










						Here's what we know so far about those missing in Florida condo collapse
					

At least 159 people were unaccounted for Friday morning after part of a 12-story residential building in Surfside, Fla., collapsed early Thursday, authorities...




					www.post-gazette.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

Mother with broken pelvis pulls teen daughter from crumbling condo in Miami.










						Mother with broken pelvis pulls teen daughter from crumbling condo in Miami
					

Angela Gonzalez lost her home when a 12-story ocean front condo building suddenly collapsed in Miami — but she would not lose her daughter




					americanmilitarynews.com
				





Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

Survivors recount horror of Surfside building collapse: 'We knew it was a race against time'









						Survivors recount horror of Surfside building collapse: 'We knew it was a race against time'
					

Albert and Janette Aguero suddenly awoke early Thursday to what they said sounded like a "really loud clap of thunder." Then their bedroom began to shake.




					abcnews.go.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

LISTEN: 'You need to get out as soon as possible' - NJ man, family escapes Miami building collapse.




			https://www.audacy.com/1010wins/news/local/nj-man-family-escapes-miami-building-collapse
		

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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

N.J. couple feared to be among those caught in
 Florida condo collapse.










						N.J. couple feared to be among those caught in Florida condo collapse
					

A Lakewood rabbi and family friends said Benny and Malki Weiss had been visiting her father at the 12-story tower near Miami Beach when it collapsed on Thursday.




					www.nj.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 25, 2021)

Scenes from Surfside, Fla., condo collapse - Slideshow.










						Scenes from Surfside, Fla., condo collapse - Photos
					

The 12-story Champlain Towers oceanfront condominium in Surfside, Fla., collapsed in the early hours of June 24, 2021. About half of the building's 130 units suddenly pancaked to the ground as residents slept. The luxury building was constructed in 1981.




					www.upi.com
				





Richard


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## CanuckTravlr (Jun 25, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Lawsuit seeking $5 million says victims of Miami
> condominium collapse deserve compensation.



Yup, the ambulance chasers are out already!!  Unbelievably tacky, IMO.  People are still missing and most likely presumed dead.  They could at least have waited until the dust and smoke (literally) settled.  But no one has ever accused them of either good judgment or good taste.  IMO, these guys deserve a place somewhere below timeshare salesmen.   

My thoughts right now are for those missing or dead, and their friends and families!  I cannot imagine what they must be going through.  This is an absolute tragedy.  So very, very sad.  My thoughts and prayers go out to them.


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## tombanjo (Jun 25, 2021)

From reading the article, the person suing is not even an owner or resident, but “neighbor”.


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## DrQ (Jun 25, 2021)

We were owners of Inverness by the Sea in Galveston which was constructed during the same time period. While only three stories with a ground floor and not the same type of construction, about 5-7 years ago we had to have major structural repairs because of corrosion of structural beams (mainly the flanges and bolts) within the building.

The salt air is hell on materials. I think 40 years between certifications is WAY too long. The fact that the collapse was caught on several surveillance cameras will help investigators.


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## CanuckTravlr (Jun 25, 2021)

tombanjo said:


> From reading the article, the person suing is not even an owner or resident, but “neighbor”.



Yup.  But nothing matters as long as they are the first-in-line to get their multi-million-dollar, class-action lawsuit filed!


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## DrQ (Jun 25, 2021)

tombanjo said:


> From reading the article, the person suing is not even an owner or resident, but “neighbor”.


Very likely. As a condominium, for the most part, the resident's are also the owners.


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## tombanjo (Jun 25, 2021)

I saw a news report that they had opened for bidding a $10 million dollar project for fixing issues with the concrete. For 130 owners, that is close to $80,000 dollars each in fees. I’m sure a certain amount is in reserves, but that is a pretty big bill


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## silentg (Jun 25, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I wonder if the buildings foundation was undermined by the ocean currents or a sink hole. Orange Lake Resort lost a building because of a sink hole and a few homes have been damaged by sink holes in Florida.
> 
> Bill


It was Summer Bay, not Orange Lake.


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## silentg (Jun 25, 2021)

This was a tragic event. Still hoping to find more survivors.


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## rapmarks (Jun 25, 2021)

Talk about being unaware, someone on Bluegreen forums just posted they are going to Solara (right next door) next week and wants restaurant recommendations


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## exco (Jun 25, 2021)

tombanjo said:


> I saw a news report that they had opened for bidding a $10 million dollar project for fixing issues with the concrete. For 130 owners, that is close to $80,000 dollars each in fees. I’m sure a certain amount is in reserves, but that is a pretty big bill



I watched a news interview on TV today.  It mentioned the area has been sinking according to the professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Florida International University.
Oddly, it said it is unlikely it will happen to other buildings in that area. I do not know how people can sleep in other buildings in that area, if it is the salt water causing structural problems.

I pray for these people who are suffering.


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## Passepartout (Jun 25, 2021)

Y'know, we all have fantasies that we want to die in our own beds, sound asleep, but NOT LIKE THIS! Deepest condolences to the families and loved ones of the victims. May they all Rest in Peace.

Jim


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## TravelTime (Jun 26, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Lawsuit seeking $5 million says victims of Miami
> condominium collapse deserve compensation.
> 
> 
> ...



This is interesting, Doesn’t the payment for a lawsuit by residents get paid for by residents out of their reserve funds and HOA fees? This seems like it only benefits the lawyers. And why is a nearby property owner suing?


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 26, 2021)

Inspection reports for collapsed Miami condo detail 'concrete deterioration,' including cracking and spalling.










						Inspection reports for collapsed Miami-area condo detail 'major structural damage' over garage
					

The town of Surfside posted a dozen documents to its website late Friday night relating to the collapsed Champlain Towers South building.



					www.usatoday.com
				





Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 26, 2021)

With 4 confirmed dead, 159 unaccounted for, officials vow to keep searching Florida condo
 rubble.










						With 4 confirmed dead, 159 unaccounted for, officials vow to keep searching Florida condo rubble
					

"We are working around the clock, and we have hope," Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said after a second day of searching following the collapse.




					www.nbcnews.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 26, 2021)

Satellite Images Show The Devastation Wrought By The Florida Building Collapse.










						Satellite Images Show The Devastation Wrought By The Florida Building Collapse
					

The partial collapse of the Champlain Towers South condo building in Surfside, Fla., killed at least four people and left another 159 unaccounted for.




					www.npr.org
				



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Richard


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## bluehende (Jun 26, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> This is interesting, Doesn’t the payment for a lawsuit by residents get paid for by residents out of their reserve funds and HOA fees? This seems like it only benefits the lawyers. And why is a nearby property owner suing?


I would assume their is some kind of insurance that would pay for some or all.


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## am1 (Jun 26, 2021)

bluehende said:


> I would assume their is some kind of insurance that would pay for some or all.


If so expect premiums to go up for surrounding buildings.


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## TravelTime (Jun 26, 2021)

am1 said:


> If so expect premiums to go up for surrounding buildings.



I am guessing premiums will go up for all high rises in the Florida coastal areas after this. Also I read that Miami-Dade is considering further tightening building codes and inspection codes after this. This will certainly raise costs for high rise condos.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 26, 2021)

Building inspector was on roof of Florida condo hours before collapse.










						Building inspector was on roof of Florida condo hours before collapse
					

The Surfside town building official was on the roof of the beachfront condo 14 hours before half of the building collapsed. Jim McGuinness said during an emergency meeting that he was on the roof t…




					nypost.com
				



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Richard


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## Deb & Bill (Jun 26, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> This is very sad. I hope going forward people will make fixes to buildings and develop high rises that will not sink or otherwise collapse. This problem could get worse with the consequences of global warming. I have read that many buildings are sinking and with the shoreline eroding, it can be unsafe to build too close to the beach or ocean.
> 
> In terms of disaster relief, I am in favor of helping the residents of this building. This was a very old building so the residents of this building are probably not rich. In fact, there could be many elderly people living here since it was built in the 1990s well before Miami Beach (Surfside) was popular.
> 
> I think SF Millennium is a different situation. This was developer error and it was known right from the beginning.


Units in the building were selling from $600K to $2M.  I'd bet most of the residents were snowbirds or foreign nationals who lived there part-time.


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## TravelTime (Jun 26, 2021)

Deb & Bill said:


> Units in the building were selling from $600K to $2M.  I'd bet most of the residents were snowbirds or foreign nationals who lived there part-time.



Keep in mind that many of the residents had lived there since the 1980s and 1990s when these units were affordable and Surfside was not considered trendy (not sure it is even trendy now). Miami and Miami Beach were not like they are today. I am from South Florida and lived there from the 1971 until 1988, then returned from 1996 to 2000. Miami did not start getting expensive like it is today until after the 2000s. Then it sunk again for many years during the housing collapse. So many people living in this Surfside building were not likely to be wealthy. But even if they were wealthy, not sure what difference that would make for this tragedy.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 26, 2021)

Ongoing Fire beneath Surfside condo ''hampering search efforts.










						Ongoing fire beneath Surfside condo "hampering" search efforts
					

No additional victims have been found as of Saturday morning.




					www.axios.com
				



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Richard


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## pedro47 (Jun 26, 2021)

Looks liked the 9-11 building in New York City coming down. Sad, very sad.

Twenty plus years ago I learned a very hard lesson working for the government; never walked on a flat roof unless you want trouble ( leaks and more leaks will suddenly develop.). IMHO.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 26, 2021)

A woman standing on her balcony was on the phone to her husband as the Miami condo began to
 collapse and described the unfolding disaster before the line went dead.










						A woman standing on her balcony was on the phone to her husband as the Miami condo began to collapse and described the unfolding disaster before the line went dead
					

The husband of Cassie Stratton heard a "blood-curdling scream" on the other end of the phone as his wife was engulfed in the Miami condo collapse.




					www.insider.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 26, 2021)

FLORIDA RESCUE UPDATE: 9/11 FIRE COMMISSIONER SEES 'LESS HOPE' IN FINDING CONDO COLLAPSE SURVIVORS.










						Florida rescue update: 9/11 fire commissioner sees 'less hope' in finding condo collapse survivors
					

"You just hope that there is somebody under there and they're hanging on, but as the hours go by, it becomes less and less possible," he said.




					abc7chicago.com
				





Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 26, 2021)

Champlain Tower: Experts weigh in on what went wrong.










						Champlain Tower: Experts weigh in on what went wrong
					

Experts say no single issue could have caused the Champlain Tower South condominium complex to collapse, but a confluence of factors likely did.




					abcnews.go.com
				



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Richard


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## Passepartout (Jun 26, 2021)

I bet the HOA has some 'splainin' to do about the response to the engineering report of 2018.


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## am1 (Jun 26, 2021)

Passepartout said:


> I bet the HOA has some 'splainin' to do about the response to the engineering report of 2018.


It may void insurance.  We all know almost everything does.  Hopefully more people found and more residents were out of town or out for the night.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

UConn pitcher Justin Willis, family survived harrowing escape from collapsed condos in Surfside, Florida.










						UConn pitcher Justin Willis, family survived harrowing escape from collapsed condos in Surfside, Florida
					

UConn pitcher Justin Willis and his family were in the Champlain condominium complex in Surfside, Fla., when it collapsed early Thursday morning. Willis described for The Courant the harrowing experience of making their way out down 11 floors, helping an elderly woman make the journey to safety...




					www.courant.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

Grandson of couple missing in Florida building collapse getting calls from their landline.










						Grandson of couple missing in Florida building collapse getting calls from their landline
					

Jake Samuelson told local news that he’s received over a dozen calls from the landline phone of his grandparents, who are unaccounted for following the Champlain Towers South collapse, and on…




					nypost.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

Florida building collapse: This man stayed at his
 girlfriend's on night of disaster.










						Florida building collapse: This man stayed at his girlfriend's on night of disaster
					

Only by God. To me this is a miracle, the 40-year-old Brazil native said.



					m.khaleejtimes.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

Crews at Florida condo collapse site find body, raising death toll to five.










						Crews at Florida condo collapse site find body, raising death toll to five
					

Rescue crews found another body in the rubble of a collapsed 12-story condominium tower near Miami on Saturday, raising the death toll to five as they raced to recover any




					www.fox10tv.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

Before building collapse, $9 million in repairs needed.










						Before building collapse, $9 million in repairs needed
					

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — Nearly three years before an oceanfront building collapsed near Miami, an engineering firm estimated that major repairs the building needed would cost more than $9 million, according to newly released emails.




					apnews.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

Condo Collapse: Former Maintenance Manager William Espinosa Was Concerned About
 Saltwater Intrusion.










						Condo Collapse: Former Maintenance Manager William Espinosa Was Concerned About Saltwater Intrusion
					

William Espinosa said he was stunned when he saw the images of the condominium collapse in Surfside.




					miami.cbslocal.com
				





Richard


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## geekette (Jun 27, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Condo Collapse: Former Maintenance Manager William Espinosa Was Concerned About
> Saltwater Intrusion.
> 
> 
> ...


Seems like root cause to me.  Dude did was he was supposed to, and told to not worry about it.  yikes.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

Family finds 'message in the mess of all this' as
 search through wreckage of Florida condo tower continues.










						Family finds ‘message in the mess of all this’ as search through wreckage of Florida condo tower continues
					

The family described Hilda Noriega as a fiercely independent and vivacious retiree — in Mike’s words, “the youngest 92-year-old I know ... 92 going on 62.” She remains missing in the rubble.




					www.pennlive.com
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

Road, Beach Closures Due To Condo Collapse in Surfside.










						Road, Beach Closures Due To Condo Collapse In Surfside
					

Emergency Officials: Don’t Come To Watch. Roads Closed, Detoured, Access Limited. BY: STAFF REPORT | BocaNewsNow.com SURFSIDE, FL (BocaNewsNow.com) (Copyright © 2021 MetroDesk Media, LLC) — If you are thinking of heading to Surfside to see the Champlain Condo Tower collapse yourself, the advice...




					bocanewsnow.com
				





Richard


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## Passepartout (Jun 27, 2021)

To those evacuated from the Surfside apartments that didn't collapse last Thursday, and are now homeless: Go buy a lottery ticket. You already WON!

Jim


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 27, 2021)

Death toll climbs to 9 as search for survivors goes on in collapsed Florida condo building.




			https://abcnews.go.com/US/death-toll-climbs-search-survivors-collapsed-florida-condo/story?id=78519477
		

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Richard


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## DrQ (Jun 27, 2021)

This is possibly what the residents of the tower that didn't fall face to retrieve their possessions.

In 2019, a crane collapsed in Dallas. It took months for the residents to get their belongings and some were ruined due to mold and mildew because of no A/C.





__





						Belongings packed up for half of residents from crane damaged building
					

Letter to former Elan City Lights residents says crane removal process will take up to 8 weeks




					www.wfaa.com


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## Richard Chen (Jun 28, 2021)

Bluegreen Solara Surfside (8801 Collins Ave, 33154) was between the collapsed Champlain Towers South @ 8777 and its duplicate sister building East @ 8855 which is in turn adjacent to North @ 8877. It is permanently closed as shown in Google Local and official BlueGreenVacations Locator.

God bless all those lost, searching, and surviving relatives and friends. Let us treasure our fortunes and time now.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 28, 2021)

Miami condo collapse draws attention to Canadian developer.










						Miami condo collapse draws attention to Canadian developer
					

The aftermath of the Champlain Towers South’s collapse has brought attention to Nathan Reiber, the Canadian who was the most prominent of its developers




					www.theglobeandmail.com
				



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Richard


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## rapmarks (Jun 28, 2021)

Richard Chen said:


> Bluegreen Solara Surfside (8801 Collins Ave, 33154) was between the collapsed Champlain Towers South @ 8777 and its duplicate sister building East @ 8855 which is in turn adjacent to North @ 8877. It is permanently closed as shown in Google Local and official BlueGreenVacations Locator.
> 
> God bless all those lost, searching, and surviving relatives and friends. Let us treasure our fortunes and time now.


Is there some place the permanent closure of Solara Surfside is announced?  There was some discussion of this on Facebook pages but can’t find any announcements


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## DrQ (Jun 28, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> Is there some place the permanent closure of Solara Surfside is announced?  There was some discussion of this on Facebook pages but can’t find any announcements


I would suspect that it is more a case of "Closed Indefinitely" until they can assess the structural soundness of the building. Even if they could do that tomorrow, it is not going to be a pleasant place with all the clean-up and demolition.


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## tombanjo (Jun 28, 2021)

it looks like Solara was built in 1965 and is 7 stories tall. So in 2005 it had it's 40th year required inspection, and then in 2015, the next level, it's 50th year inspection. I doubt it will be permenantly closed as I see no reason to lump it in with the failures next door, different building, different foot print, different era built, passed two inspections, etc.


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## TravelTime (Jun 28, 2021)

DrQ said:


> This is possibly what the residents of the tower that didn't fall face to retrieve their possessions.
> 
> In 2019, a crane collapsed in Dallas. It took months for the residents to get their belongings and some were ruined due to mold and mildew because of no A/C.
> 
> ...



Hopefully they have insurance for the interior of their units and their possessions. I would not want to go back in there.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 28, 2021)

Tunneling Florida rescuers spot voids, search for
 survivors in building collapse.










						Tunneling Florida rescuers spot voids, search for survivors in building collapse
					

The death toll rose by just four people Sunday, to a total of nine confirmed dead. But more than 150 people are still missing in Surfside.




					www.pbs.org
				



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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 28, 2021)

Miami condo collapse survivor says he could hear screams for help.










						Miami condo collapse survivor says he could hear screams for help
					

Steve Rosenthal, 72, was rescued from his corner unit at the doomed Champlain Towers in Surfside, Florida, last Thursday. He said he heard people screaming: 'Help me! Get me out!'




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 28, 2021)

Small dog helps rescuers after building collapse in Miami-area.










						Small dog helps rescuers after building collapse in Miami-area
					

A small dog named Oreo is helping crews search for survivors and victims after the collapse of a condo building in the Miami-area.



					www.azcentral.com
				





Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 28, 2021)

Surfside Mayor: Little girl was praying alone for missing parent in Florida condo collapse.










						Surfside Mayor: Little girl was praying alone for missing parent in Florida condo collapse
					

The mayor of Surfside, Florida says he came across a young girl praying alone near the site of the condo collapse where one of her parents is missing.



					www.usatoday.com
				





Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 29, 2021)

Watch the most probable sequence of the
 Surfside collapse.






.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 29, 2021)

An area of standing water beneath the Miami condo that collapsed was in the same place as a 'major' design flaw found in 2018, a new report says.










						An area of standing water beneath the Miami condo that collapsed was in the same place as a 'major' design flaw found in 2018, a new report says
					

A pool contractor took photos of water damage beneath the Miami Beach condominium just two days before it collapsed last week.




					www.insider.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 29, 2021)

'Significantly worse': Doomed Miami condo's concrete deterioration was accelerating in April, condo letter says.










						'Significantly worse': Doomed Miami condo's concrete deterioration was accelerating in April, condo letter says
					

Deterioration in the basement garage of the Surfside condo building that collapsed had been getting worse, according to a condo letter in April.



					www.usatoday.com
				





Richard


----------



## DrQ (Jun 29, 2021)

*REVEALED: Owners of condos in collapsed Miami tower were warned they'd need to pay $15M for repair weeks before it collapsed as its emerges developers worked around building codes to add penthouse*

*Residents of Champlain Towers South were told in April that they would need to pay $15million in renovation costs this year for its 40-year inspection*
*An engineer in 2018 told condo owners that repairs would cost $12million; by this year, the cost had escalated*
*Residents were informed of the cost in an April 9 letter from the condo board president, Jean Wodnicki*
*On Monday it also emerged that a penthouse was added to the building, after 12 floors of residential units were initially approved *
*In 1981, when the building was being developed, the Surfside town commission granted a special exemption to local height limits *
*Champlain Towers South collapsed at 1.30am on Thursday in three parts; first the center of the building collapsed from the bottom upwards *
*Experts who have reviewed video of the collapse say the bottom-up theory is likely and could have been down to spalling in the parking garage*
*11 people have been confirmed dead and 150 remain missing; bodies were pulled from the rubble on Monday *









						Miami condo owners told in April they needed to pay $15m in renovation
					

A contractor visited Champlain Towers South on Tuesday to survey it as part of a bid proposal to repair the pool room. He found extensive corrosion and puddles of water in the parking garage.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## DrQ (Jun 29, 2021)

I would NOT want to be on THAT condo board. I bet some current/former members are going to jail.


----------



## tombanjo (Jun 29, 2021)

Not to minimize the great loss of life, but you would need to show that the board knew the building would collapse and did nothing. But the board was doing things to resolve this, a multi-million dollar project is not something one person decides on in an afternoon. Plus, as a condo, the owners vote. The current owners and board are really looking at 40 years of issues condensed into a few minutes of colossal failure. Yes, certainly things can be examined to see where processes and regulations can be improved to help prevent this again, but pinning on the blame on one person or whoever was on the board the moment fell is a nice simple answer, but in no way the answer to a really very complex situation


----------



## AnnaS (Jun 29, 2021)

I did hear about the $15M needed for repair and that (some) owners needed to take out loans.......where and how they (news) knew this information about loans, no clue.  It does make me think.......were they stalling?  Were they waiting for everyone to dish out money?  Not sure how these condo boards/repairs work.  Get the work done and send out bills later.  Collect first and then fix the issue/problems.  I would think somehow/somewhere/someone did not think it was obviously going to collapse........but there had to be more than one/someone to feel/responsible/negligent for this.


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## tombanjo (Jun 29, 2021)

Multi-million dollar contracts are not simple things. You need to define the scope of work for each thing to be done, send out for bids, compare bids and decide. The condo needed to secure financing for it to pay upfront the costs, and offer the owners a plan to pay the total (from $86,000 for one bedroom to over $330,000 for a 4 bedroom) or to do a 15 year financing plan. You can't do the financing with out knowing the costs. 

With COVID and lock down, I am sure it was not simple. Yes, they had the remainder of 2018 and 2019 to accomplish a lot of that, but still, COVID is a significant factor in the delay

The payments were due July 1st, and as mentioned, the roof work was already begun. 

There is natural resistance to being told to pay huge amounts of money for repairs. Just like a timeshare, owners would not be happy with a giant assessment. 

I wonder if there will be a fall out in the timeshare world as well. There are a lot of buildings that have changed hands, or owned by various groups who are not the management company. What kinds of repairs are getting pushed along or patched over. I do not know if other states have the 40 year re-inspection requirements. Anyone know the ages of the HGVC inventory ?


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## DrQ (Jun 29, 2021)

tombanjo said:


> Not to minimize the great loss of life, but you would need to show that the board *knew the building would collapse* and did nothing.


Not necessarily, they would have to prove that they acted in a reckless or cavalier manner concerning ongoing maintenance issues. 


tombanjo said:


> ... but pinning on the blame on one person or whoever was on the board the moment fell is a nice simple answer, but in no way the answer to a really very complex situation


Welcome to America, we're always looking for a scapegoat.


----------



## DrQ (Jun 29, 2021)

tombanjo said:


> I wonder if there will be a fall out in the timeshare world as well. There are a lot of buildings that have changed hands, or owned by various groups who are not the management company. What kinds of repairs are getting pushed along or patched over. I do not know if other states have the 40 year re-inspection requirements. Anyone know the ages of the HGVC inventory ?


Been there - done that. Got hit with a $1500 Special Assessment about 8 years ago at Inverness by the Sea in Galveston when they had to do $1.5 million of structural repair and we had 2 units. Enter the death spiral with owners leaving and ownership got down to 30%, they had to do another $3.5 million in repairs. They were asking $6k per unit/week or and investment group offered to buy out the remaining owners. We pulled the ripcord.


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## DrQ (Jun 29, 2021)

*Two days before condo collapse, a pool contractor photographed this damage in garage*



			https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html


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## rapmarks (Jun 29, 2021)

someone staying at Solara Surfside on that evening had an interesting post praising a couple of Bluegreen workers.  those staying at Solara had to vacate the building.  Debris was all over the pool area.  Many left in their "jammies" and flip flops, all belongings left behind.  A Bluegreen employee eventually went in to bring out a few of their valuables.  Some got clothes from Goodwill.  Rental cars were left there and had to be dealt with later.  alternate accommodations had to be found.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 29, 2021)

What Led To The Florida Condo Collapse? Here's
 What We Know So Far (6/29/2021)










						What Led To The Florida Condo Collapse? Here's What We Know So Far
					

As one of the largest U.S. rescue operations in recent memory continues, those who escaped the tower or lost loved ones want to know how the 12-story structure could have failed so suddenly.




					www.npr.org
				



.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 29, 2021)

Miami condo collapse: Family still getting mysterious phone calls from mIssIng
 grandparents.










						Miami condo collapse: Family still getting mysterious phone calls from missing grandparents
					

The family of the Florida grandparents missing in the aftermath of the Surfside building collapse said Tuesday they are still getting mysterious phone calls from the couple’s landline — at least 20 since the catastrophe.




					www.foxnews.com
				



.


Richard


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## pedro47 (Jun 29, 2021)

DrQ said:


> *Two days before condo collapse, a pool contractor photographed this damage in garage*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html


That pool contractor photos and sketches are going to hang someone. IMHO.

What is troubling to me is how The Pyramids in Egypt have not fallen
after thousands of years in the  desert heat,  the sun and all those sand storms.


----------



## moonstone (Jun 29, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> That pool contractor photos and sketches are going to hang someone. IMHO.
> 
> What is troubling to me is how The Pyramids in Egypt have not fallen
> after thousands of years in the  desert heat,  the sun and all those sand storms.



Maybe something to do with the proximity of salt water and low water table in Florida.  I know of some concrete crumbling in Florida and other areas due to salt water or even high Ph level water being used in mixing it. Not good for the rebars in the concrete either. 

~Diane


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## moonstone (Jun 29, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Miami condo collapse: Family still getting mysterious phone calls from mIssIng
> grandparents.
> 
> 
> ...



My dad, a retired 43 year employee of Bell Canada said one possible explanation is if the couple's last call was to the grandson (or whoever is getting the call) and the land line is shorting out due to the collapse. The short may be triggering a re-dial and hence the 'static' on the line when they answer the call.

I think it is pretty creepy but hope that by some miracle one or both of the elderly couple is still alive and trying to call for help. 


~Diane


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## TravelTime (Jun 29, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> That pool contractor photos and sketches are going to hang someone. IMHO.
> 
> What is troubling to me is how The Pyramids in Egypt have not fallen
> after thousands of years in the  desert heat,  the sun and all those sand storms.



In the big scheme of things, this is an anomaly. Millions of buildings have been built and not collapsed.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jun 29, 2021)

DrQ said:


> I would NOT want to be on THAT condo board. I bet some current/former members are going to jail.




Some of these current (or former) condo board members are currently missing.

The entire situation is very sad.  I would be curious to see prices of the last few Real Estate sales that occurred in that particular complex (to see if the deterioration of the building was reflected in the actual purchase price), and whether or not the building's condition was disclosed to potential buyers (or disclosed in the actual listings).

There is no question that the remaining parts of the building will be taken down and we all need to hope that it won't fall down on its own.



.


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## Passepartout (Jun 29, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> What is troubling to me is how The Pyramids in Egypt have not fallen
> after thousands of years in the  desert heat,  the sun and all those sand storms.


The wide foundation holds them up, and desert heat and sun don't deteriorate (nonexistent) rebar.


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## Brett (Jun 29, 2021)

pedro47 said:


> That pool contractor photos and sketches are going to hang someone. IMHO.
> 
> What is troubling to me is how The Pyramids in Egypt have not fallen
> after thousands of years in the  desert heat,  the sun and all those sand storms.





Passepartout said:


> The wide foundation holds them up, and desert heat and sun don't deteriorate (nonexistent) rebar.



that and the Egyptian pyramids are mostly made of stone
https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-inside-the-great-pyramid


----------



## DrQ (Jun 30, 2021)

*Prosecutors will ask grand jury to probe Miami building collapse as survivor files lawsuit which details terrifying moment she woke up to find the building had 'pancaked'*

*State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle said she would bring the matter before grand jurors soon*
*The investigation would look into factors that led to the Thursday's collapse that left at least 11 people dead, with another 150 still unaccounted for*
*Criminal charges are possible such as felony manslaughter and murder *
*The announcement comes as a class action lawsuit was filed on behalf of collapse survivor Raysa Rodriguez against the condo association*
*In it, she recounts her harrowing ordeal as the building fell around her*
*She describes exposed elevator shafts and concrete columns piercing through the ceiling as she and neighbors work to escape the ruined building *
*It is the third lawsuit known to be file against the association *









						Prosecutors seek Miami collapse probe as victim files lawsuit
					

State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle announced a probe into the Miami condo collapse as collapse victim Raya Rodriguez files suit against the condo association.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				



I wonder if the board had Errors and Omissions insurance? Probably not anywhere NEAR the loss, even if they did.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 30, 2021)

Renowned structural engineer says multiple factors may have contributed to Florida building collapse.










						Renowned structural engineer says multiple factors may have contributed to Florida building collapse
					

The engineer hired by the city of Surfside, Florida to inspect the site of the 12-story  tower collapse said there may be multiple factors behind the tragedy.




					www.cnbc.com
				



.


Richard


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## DrQ (Jun 30, 2021)

*Building official who said doomed Miami condo tower was 'in very good shape' a month after being warned it was suffering from 'major structural damage' in 2018 is suspended from his new job as death toll rises to 12*

*Rosendo Prieto was named chief building official of Surfside in July 2013 - a position he held until late 2020*
*In November 2018 he told residents of Champlain Towers South that their building was structurally solid*
*A month earlier he had received engineer Frank Morabito's report, which warned of significant damage that would cost $9 million to replace*
*Prieto on Tuesday was suspended from his new job at the city of Doral, Florida*
*Twelve people are known to have died when the tower collapsed in the early hours of Thursday morning *
*Miami-Dade District Attorney says she plans to put case of building's collapse before a grand jury  *









						Surfside official who approved collapsed condo in 2018 is put on leave
					

A Florida building official who in November 2018 reassured residents that the now-collapsed tower was safe has been placed on leave. Rosendo Prieto had received a report warning of damage.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 30, 2021)

Condo residents saw pool deck and garage collapse before tower crumbled to the ground.










						Condo residents saw pool deck and garage collapse before tower crumbled to the ground | CNN
					

Sara Nir and her two children were in their ground-floor condo at Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Florida, moments before it partially collapsed. She was checking emails when they heard knocking sounds, she said.




					www.cnn.com
				





Rivhard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 30, 2021)

Four more bodies found in condo rubble; at least 16 dead (6/30/2021)










						Four more bodies found in Florida condo rubble; at least 16 dead
					

The bodies of four additional victims have been found in the rubble of a collapsed condo tower, raising the death toll to 16 people, a fire official told...




					www.marketwatch.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## Passepartout (Jun 30, 2021)

This building's collapse will be the 'canary' in the Florida and/or maybe many other state's building inspection codes. Watch and see. I am deeply saddened by the needless loss of life here, but it serves to point out that when maintenance shortfalls are pointed out, it's very easy for these associations to 'kick the can down the road', or put repairs on future boards. Unfortunately (it appears) the delay here cost lives.

Jim


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 30, 2021)

CNN tours the surviving sister building to the collapsed tower.










						CNN tours the surviving sister building to the collapsed tower - CNN Video
					

As the search through debris at Champlain Towers South continues, there are lingering questions about the safety of its sister building, Champlain Towers North, with a nearly identical design. CNN's Brian Todd has an inside look at Towers North.




					www.cnn.com
				



.


Richard


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## rapmarks (Jun 30, 2021)

Passepartout said:


> This building's collapse will be the 'canary' in the Florida and/or maybe many other state's building inspection codes. Watch and see. I am deeply saddened by the needless loss of life here, but it serves to point out that when maintenance shortfalls are pointed out, it's very easy for these associations to 'kick the can down the road', or put repairs on future boards. Unfortunately (it appears) the delay here cost lives.
> 
> Jim


This may be off topic, but our entire hoa board was voted out of office or badgered so much they resigned because of expenses that come with an aging community. Consequently we now have a board controlled by people that moved to the community six months before they were elected and have never served the community in any capacity except to complain. They spent an enormous amount of money to get elected, backed by someone who has purchased several homes in community and is renting thEM out on Airbnb despite short term rentals being forbidden.  After going through a year of accusations, interruptions at board meetings, etc.  mostly from people who no longer use facilities and would rather save money and close them down, I can imagine the turmoil at the board meetings for that building when the topic of expensive safety measures came up.


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## DrQ (Jun 30, 2021)

*Video shows garage under Miami condo strewn with concrete debris and water pouring in just seven minutes before collapse: Engineers say pool deck may have caved first and brought the rest of the building with it*

*Video shows water gushing into the garage below Champlain Towers South in Miami's Surfside neighborhood*
*The footage was recorded at 1.18am on June 24 - seven minutes before the building collapsed at 1.25am  *
*It was recorded and posted to TikTok by Adriana Sarmiento, who said she was swimming in hotel pool nearby when she heard a noise and went to investigate*
*Sarmiento said she had tried to notify residents about the danger but they thought she was exaggerating *
*Engineers are still weighing up what caused collapse which killed at least 18 people  *
*One theory is the pool deck collapsed in on itself, onto the garage, and brought the building down with it *
*Once the first part of the building crumbled, it dragged down the other side of it, the experts say *
*There wasn't anything structurally wrong with the second part of the building that fell beforehand *
*What caused the pool deck or parking garage to implode is still uncertain but it may be down to a few things *
*One contributing factor could have been corroded rebar - which was found two days before the collapse *
*Another could be spalling in the columns that held the whole thing up - that was found in 2018 by an engineer *









						Video shows water pouring into Miami condo garage before collapse
					

A video purports to show water gushing from the ceiling of the Champlain Towers South building's garage while concrete debris litters the floor just seven minutes before it collapsed.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## TravelTime (Jun 30, 2021)

I am still perplexed as to who they are suing. It seems to me they are suing themselves. I assume insurance will pay some claims but don’t they pay for the insurance? I guess they could go after the town of Surfside. They could sue the board assuming the board has directors insurance. But how can you blame the board if the residents did not want a $120,000 special assessment to pay for repairs? It seems to me their best bet is to sell the land to a developer and divvy up the profits between all the residents.


----------



## rhonda (Jun 30, 2021)

I've read talk that John McAfee owned a couple units in the building section that collapsed.  It is also rumored that he had 31TB of incriminating government data ... possibly stored at the Miami location.  Hmmm ... So what of that dead man's switch ... ??


----------



## tombanjo (Jun 30, 2021)

Actually, it was John Wilkes Booth with 3GB of Niemen Marcus "Secret" Cookie recipes in his wooden leg, and would you believe it - no one can locate the wooden leg !!!!


----------



## geekette (Jun 30, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I am still perplexed as to who they are suing. It seems to me they are suing themselves. I assume insurance will pay some claims but don’t they pay for the insurance? I guess they could go after the town of Surfside. They could sue the board assuming the board has directors insurance. But how can you blame the board if the residents did not want a $120,000 special assessment to pay for repairs? It seems to me their best bet is to sell the land to a developer and divvy up the profits between all the residents.


Are these owners or renters?  Either way, mgmt has been collecting rents and has a duty to maintain a safe building.  I don't think residents should have ever been asked for such an outrageous amount.  Instead, issues should have been addressed as found vs letting them get worse to the point of massive repair bills.    They ignored problems.   For Years.

People died needlessly.   Renters insurance would cover belongings, but not loss of life nor injury from unsafe habitat.   Mgmt was callously indifferent to problems reported time and again.   That's negligence.   Leading to mass death.   I'd rather see criminal proceedings vs civil.


----------



## TravelTime (Jun 30, 2021)

geekette said:


> Are these owners or renters?  Either way, mgmt has been collecting rents and has a duty to maintain a safe building.  I don't think residents should have ever been asked for such an outrageous amount.  Instead, issues should have been addressed as found vs letting them get worse to the point of massive repair bills.    They ignored problems.   For Years.
> 
> People died needlessly.   Renters insurance would cover belongings, but not loss of life nor injury from unsafe habitat.   Mgmt was callously indifferent to problems reported time and again.   That's negligence.   Leading to mass death.   I'd rather see criminal proceedings vs civil.



These are all privately owned condos. Some were owner occupied and some were renter occupied. I agree the owners should have handled the repairs as they emerged. I am sure there was a lot of push back from the owners. That is why I do not really think this is the board’s fault. The building owners are the HOA and Board. This could happen anywhere. It was such a random event. It is unlikely to happen again in the near future. Most of the old buildings by the ocean (and even some new ones) have poor construction and repairs. If we are going to blame people, then I think the blame goes to all the owners who did not want to pay the special assessments.


----------



## TravelTime (Jun 30, 2021)

This article describes some of the problems with the owners of this building. They could not agree on anything going back many years. IMHO, all the owners are responsible. They should all be held accountable. The board can only be as effective as the owners allow it to be.

——-

Majority of Florida condo board quit in 2019 as squabbling residents dragged out plans for repairs


The president of the board of the Florida condominium that collapsed last week resigned in 2019, partly in frustration over what she saw as the sluggish response to an engineer’s report that identified major structural damage the previous year.

Anette Goldstein was among five members of the seven-member board to resign in two weeks that fall, according to minutes from an Oct. 3 meeting, at a time when the condo association in Surfside was consumed by contentious debate about the multimillion-dollar repairs.

“We work for months to go in one direction and at the very last minute objections are raised that should have been discussed and resolved right in the beginning,” Goldstein wrote in a September 2019 resignation letter. “This pattern has repeated itself over and over, ego battles, undermining the roles of fellow board members, circulation of gossip and mistruths. I am not presenting a very pretty picture of the functioning of our board and many before us, but it describes a board that works very hard but cannot for the reasons above accomplish the goals we set out to accomplish.”

Debate over the cost and scope of the work, along with turnover on the volunteer board, dragged out preparations for the repairs for three years, according to previously unpublished correspondence, condo board minutes and other records kept by the homeowners association.

Concrete restoration work had not yet begun when the building partially collapsed June 24. Identifying the cause of the catastrophe is expected to take many months, and it is not clear whether the problems identified in 2018 played a role. At least 18 people were killed in the catastrophe, and 145 remain missing.

Despite increasingly dire warnings from the board, many condo owners balked at paying for the extensive improvements, which ballooned in price from about $9 million to more than $15 million over the past three years as the building continued to deteriorate, records show……

The board unanimously voted in favor of a $15 million special assessment to pay for the upgrades to the building on April 13.

As recently as April, residents appeared divided over the repairs — with dozens signing a letter that questioned the details of the proposed spending and asked the board to consider a lower assessment. “We cannot afford an assessment that doubles the amount of the maintenance dues currently being paid,” the group wrote………

Read more here:



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/majority-of-florida-condo-board-quit-in-2019-as-squabbling-residents-dragged-out-plans-for-repairs/2021/06/30/43592282-d98e-11eb-ae62-2d07d7df83bd_story.html


----------



## TheTimeTraveler (Jun 30, 2021)

In any event, whatever happens, my guess it could be five or ten years before everything works its way thru the Court System.  There will be a lot of finger pointing so it will take a lot of time, patience, and law suits to try and resolve.

The Condo Board (i.e. Management) knew of the issues and costs, but wouldn't (or couldn't) garner everyone on board regarding the outrageous special assessments that were needed in order to proceed with the immediate $9 million dollar work, which by April of 2021 the costs had ballooned to $15 million dollars.

The Condo Board finally got their act together, and special assessments were to be done starting tomorrow (July 1, 2021) for a period of 180 months (15 years).  Those special assessments would have exceeded $100,000 for each unit owner from what I could gather.   Even though the special assessments were to begin tomorrow, the actual work had already started (i.e. a new roof was in process). 

It's a sad situation for anyone involved and Court solutions won't restore any lives lost.  My hopes and prayers go to all the all the families involved.

Personally, I would like to see the State of Florida purchase the land in question and turn it into a permanent memorial for those who lost their lives.  The remaining part of the building is now totally useless, but the beach front lot it sits on is worth megabucks.......   If the State doesn't take it then it is likely another high rise will be build on it again at some point in the future.



.


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## geekette (Jun 30, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> These are all privately owned condos. Some were owner occupied and some were renter occupied. I agree the owners should have handled the repairs as they emerged. I am sure there was a lot of push back from the owners. That is why I do not really think this is the board’s fault. The building owners are the HOA and Board. This could happen anywhere. It was such a random event. It is unlikely to happen again in the near future. Most of the old buildings by the ocean (and even some new ones) have poor construction and repairs. If we are going to blame people, then I think the blame goes to all the owners who did not want to pay the special assessments.


Oh, you're saying there were SA's all these years?   I obviously haven't followed this closely, so thank you for some details I was missing!!!


----------



## rapmarks (Jun 30, 2021)

geekette said:


> Oh, you're saying there were SA's all these years?   I obviously haven't followed this closely, so thank you for some details I was missing!!!


I took his statement as there was lots of pushback about special assessments.  Who knows if they were passed


----------



## TravelTime (Jun 30, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> I took his statement as there was lots of pushback about special assessments.  Who knows if they were passed



There was a lot of push back for the special assessments. The owners did not want to pay so that delayed getting the work done.


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## geekette (Jun 30, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> There was a lot of push back for the special assessments. The owners did not want to pay so that delayed getting the work done.


the part that gets me is that if repairs had been timely (maybe a decade or 2 ago?), there might not have needed to be giant SAs.   If the water intrusion had been stopped/diverted, etc., long long long ago, could be that decay to vital rebar and concrete could have been repaired, and stopped from decaying again.  

the whole thing is sad.   And a bit scary.


----------



## alexinorlando (Jun 30, 2021)

Bluegreen has canceled all reservations at the Surfside property through early October.


----------



## alexinorlando (Jun 30, 2021)

Bluegreen email below

“
Dear valued Bluegreen Owner,



The collapse of the Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Florida has necessitated the evacuation of buildings in the area, including the Solara Surfside Resort. Bluegreen Resorts management team continues to follow the instructions of the Miami-Dade County emergency authorities and cooperate with them in their efforts during this tragedy. Consequently, the Solara Surfside Resort remains closed.



In light of this, all incoming reservations for the Solara Surfside Resort now through October 4, 2021 have been canceled without penalty and applicable points refunded to the owners’ accounts. Our records indicate that you have an upcoming reservation at the Solara Surfside Resort during this timeframe. Your upcoming reservation(s) for the Solara Surfside Resort has been canceled. If you wish to rebook another available resort, you may do so by visiting bluegreenowner.com. If you have any additional questions contact Bluegreen Club Services either via chat at bluegreenowner.com or call 800-456-CLUB(2582). Hours of operation are Monday through Friday, 8:00 am to 9:00 pm and Saturday 9:00 am to 5:30 pm.



Our thoughts and prayers remain with the victims, their families, rescue workers, first responders and all impacted by this tragedy.



Bluegreen Club Services”


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 1, 2021)

Shocking video shows water pouring into basement of doomed Miami condo building minutes before it collapsed, as death toll rises to 18 - including two children aged four and 1O - with 145 still missing.











						Miami condo is filmed flooding in final moments as death toll hits 18
					

Disturbing new footage of the Champlain Towers South Building flooding seven minutes before it collapsed was shared as the death toll rose to 18, including the first child victims, aged four and 10.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				



.


Richard


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## Sugarcubesea (Jul 1, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> This may be off topic, but our entire hoa board was voted out of office or badgered so much they resigned because of expenses that come with an aging community. Consequently we now have a board controlled by people that moved to the community six months before they were elected and have never served the community in any capacity except to complain. They spent an enormous amount of money to get elected, backed by someone who has purchased several homes in community and is renting thEM out on Airbnb despite short term rentals being forbidden.  After going through a year of accusations, interruptions at board meetings, etc.  mostly from people who no longer use facilities and would rather save money and close them down, I can imagine the turmoil at the board meetings for that building when the topic of expensive safety measures came up.



@rapmarks is this for your place in Florida?  When we make our purchase this will be something to keep in mind, to ask about the HOA and what is in reserve and what they are doing to maintain the community.  Thanks for sharing this...


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## rapmarks (Jul 1, 2021)

Sugarcubesea said:


> @rapmarks is this for your place in Florida?  When we make our purchase this will be something to keep in mind, to ask about the HOA and what is in reserve and what they are doing to maintain the community.  Thanks for sharing this...


Definitely.  Our board did a 800000  renovation of the greens on the golf course. They said we had the money. They depleted the reserves and  we had a special assessment to replenish the reserves.  The kind of arguing that was described for the building in Miami is typical.  I imagine that any decision the board made was ripped into by some condo owners. 

we closed on our house on dec 31,2003. We weren’t aware that the developer was going to turn over the clubhouse in January. Clubhouse had mold. 3500 special assessment each and arguing over assessment for over a year. That is small time compared to the assessment that condo association faced. All of the older communities are facing the need for renovation. The newer communities are propped up by artificially low fees because developers are still selling. 
getting an answer from real estate agency isn’t easy and at this time , properties are selling so fast, just as they did when we bought.  Also boards try to keep budget low and postpone expenses, resulting in projects becoming more expensive


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 1, 2021)

In South Florida, developers often demand exceptions to rules. Champlain Towers got several




			https://www.bradenton.com/news/state/florida/article252467273.html
		

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Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 1, 2021)

Surfside Condo Search Halted Over Urgent Fears Rest of Building Could Topple.










						Surfside Condo Search Halted Over Urgent Fears Rest of Building Could Topple
					

Workers reported hearing troubling noises from the remaining building hours before the expected arrival of President Joe Biden.




					www.thedailybeast.com
				



.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 2, 2021)

Workers discovered extensive concrete damage and suspended a repair effort last fall at collapsed
 Florida condo.










						Workers discovered extensive concrete damage and suspended a repair effort last fall at collapsed Florida condo
					

Exclusive new documents detail repair efforts that were not completed, in part, so the condo pool could remain open, despite extensive concrete damage



					www.usatoday.com
				





Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 2, 2021)

Months Before Florida Condo Collapse, Residents And The Board Sparred Over Repairs.










						Months Before Florida Condo Collapse, Residents And The Board Sparred Over Repairs
					

A November 2020 presentation to residents of the Champlain Towers South in Surfside, Fla. prepared them for the expensive repairs ahead and warned that "shouting at each other doesn't work!"




					www.npr.org
				



.


Richard


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## am1 (Jul 2, 2021)

Sounds like it should have been condemned if the repairs were not going to happen.  How many more could possibly be like this?


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## TravelTime (Jul 2, 2021)

I am guessing that there are many, many condominiums around the country (50%+ is my guess) with long overdue repairs that are not getting done due to the cost. This tragic incident is bringing awareness to the problems of living in a condominium with shared walls, roofs, foundations and other common structures. I doubt that another building will collapse like this one. I think this is an anomaly. To me, the real risk here is buying into a condo that needs repairs that are not getting done and getting special assessments of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars when/if they are finally done. I am glad we live in a single family home and can control our repairs and costs.


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## rapmarks (Jul 2, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I am guessing that there are many, many condominiums around the country (50%+ is my guess) with long overdue repairs that are not getting done due to the cost. This tragic incident is bringing awareness to the problems of living in a condominium with shared walls, roofs, foundations and other common structures. I doubt that another building will collapse like this one. I think this is an anomaly. To me, the real risk here is buying into a condo that needs repairs that are not getting done and getting special assessments of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars when/if they are finally done. I am glad we live in a single family home and can control our repairs and costs.


when we were looking for a home, my husband would hang near the clubhouse, or the restaurant, or some gathering point and start a conversation with an owner.  He would get some honest viewpoints.  Back then, they would set you up with a couple from the community for dinner or a round of golf.  That was only in communities still in development, but we learned a lot we certainly didn't learn from a sales person.


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## tombanjo (Jul 2, 2021)

Anyone who bought there in the last 3 years should have been told about open issues and anticipated special assessments. If they were renting, they might not have known or paid cash, but typically any bank requires disclosure in giving a loan. A savvy buyer would have been aware of the 40 year inspection rule, and even if they were not told about the anticipated cost, would be wary of that milestone 

if there were recent buyers who were not told, it might be dicey if their contracts required disclosure of defects but were not made aware. Then the seller could be liable.

 Not that everybody suing everybody else is the preferred outcome, but it might mean boards and realtors get wake up calls and become proactive.


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## TravelTime (Jul 2, 2021)

tombanjo said:


> Anyone who bought there in the last 3 years should have been told about open issues and anticipated special assessments. If they were renting, they might not have known or paid cash, but typically any bank requires disclosure in giving a loan. A savvy buyer would have been aware of the 40 year inspection rule, and even if they were not told about the anticipated cost, would be wary of that milestone
> 
> if there were recent buyers who were not told, it might be dicey if their contracts required disclosure of defects but were not made aware. Then the seller could be liable.
> 
> Not that everybody suing everybody else is the preferred outcome, but it might mean boards and realtors get wake up calls and become proactive.



All these lawsuits seem ridiculous. Really, this is the responsibility of every owner of that building. Owners should not be suing or they should sue themselves. The renters are certainly entitled to a settlement since it is the owners’ responsibility to make sure the building is safe for renters. I am sure there are some cases where a lawsuit is justified. Perhaps renters, visitors and guests could make a case for a lawsuit. The lawyers started suing on day 1. To me, this indicates a bunch of greedy lawyers and owners trying to pass the blame. I do not think there are a lot of deep pockets in that building or the town of Surfside to pay for all the lawsuits. I just hope the federal government does not do a bailout. In this case, I am against a bailout because this was the responsibility of the owners to fix and instead they were fighting over money. They chose money over safety and now they want to be paid for their choice? This does not sound right.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 2, 2021)

Florida Judge Orders Surfside Condo Association Board Into Receivership.










						Florida Judge Orders Surfside Condo Association Board Into Receivership
					

The Champlain Towers South condo association will now be overseen by a receiver who will handle all of the association's financial matters. It comes as questions swirl about the condo's collapse.




					www.npr.org
				



.


Richard


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## DrQ (Jul 2, 2021)

*300 residents of North Miami high-rise are EVACUATED after it's revealed engineer warned in JANUARY that it is 'structurally and electrically unsafe' as Miami Dade mayor orders wreckage of doomed Surfside condo demolished*

*Residents of a second building, Crestview Towers, were told to leave immediately after engineers found serious concrete and electrical problems  *
*The move was considered urgent due to the approach of Hurricane Isla, which is forecast to hit Florida as early as Monday*
*Building's owners had not yet begun a mandatory safety recertification process required 40 years after it was built*
*Evacuation comes as municipal officials in South Florida and statewide are scrutinizing older high-rises in the wake of last week's collapse*
*Four more bodies were recovered from the rubble left behind by the 12-story Champlain Towers South in nearby Surfside - with 126 people listed as missing*
*Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava has ordered the demolition of the remaining section of the tower over worries that it was dangerously unstable *
*Search and rescue efforts at the scene were halted for much of Thursday after the debris suddenly shifted *









						Hundreds of residents ordered to evacuate Miami condo building
					

More than 300 residents of the Crestview Towers Condominium are being evacuated after a building inspection report turned in by the condo association outlined structural and electrical conditions.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## DrQ (Jul 2, 2021)

Heartbreak:
*PICTURE EXCLUSIVE: Daughter, 7, of Miami firefighter who was part of rescue team that found her 'alongside her mother' in Miami condo rubble before dad draped her body in Stars and Stripes*

*The seven-year-old daughter of a Miami firefighter supporting recovery efforts at the Surfside condo collapse site was discovered in the rubble on Thursday *
*Stella Cattarossi's body was found along with that of mother  Graciela, according to friends posting online*
*Stella's father Enrique Arango - a ten-year veteran of the Miami Fire Rescue department - was present when the girl's body was recovered *
*Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava confirmed the girl was among two new victims found, bringing the death toll to 22, with 126 still missing *
*'Tragically one of those victims was the seven-year-old daughter of a City of Miami firefighter,' she said  *









						Firefighter present as daughter's body is found in Miami condo rubble
					

A Miami firefighter was present when the body of his seven-year-old daughter was recovered from the rubble of the Surfside condo catastrophe in Florida.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## Brett (Jul 3, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I am guessing that there are many, many condominiums around the country (50%+ is my guess) with long overdue repairs that are not getting done due to the cost. This tragic incident is bringing awareness to the problems of living in a condominium with shared walls, roofs, foundations and other common structures. I doubt that another building will collapse like this one. I think this is an anomaly. To me, the real risk here is buying into a condo that needs repairs that are not getting done and getting special assessments of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars when/if they are finally done. I am glad we live in a single family home and can control our repairs and costs.



yes, I think  people buying a condo now will look more closely at potential repairs and special assessments.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 3, 2021)

High-rolling developer of collapsed Florida condo
 faced legal, money woes during project.




			High-rolling developer of collapsed Florida condo faced legal, money woes during project
		

.

This might be behind a paywall.

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 3, 2021)

6 firefighters at Florida condo collapse site test positive for COVID-19.










						6 firefighters at Florida condo collapse site test positive for COVID-19
					

Rescue efforts at the site were continuing on Saturday for a tenth day.




					www.cbsnews.com
				





Richard


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## Chrisky (Jul 3, 2021)

All these problems with this condo and the horrendous aftermath of the collapse IMO is a product of the lack of proper oversight of their board and the owners. 
Here in the condo where I live, part of our condo fees go towards the daily maintenance of the building as well as to the contractors we hire to do various jobs, like landscaping, fire alarm, garbage chute cleaning, general repairs, etc.  The other part of our fees go towards our reserve fund which is what can cover major repairs, carpet replacement, window replacement, etc.  
We also have to have, a reserve fund study every 3 years where an engineering firm comes into the building to see what needs repairs, what will need something done in the upcoming years.  The Board is bound to follow these recommendations, otherwise they could be held personally responsibile if recommendations are not followed.  

We had a problem with a part of our underground garage roof leaking.  It took a while to find out exactly where the leaks were occurring, and what needed to be done.  
When the Board brought this to the owners, a small percentage of them disagreed with doing the repairs, wanted to wait.  It got nasty, with petitions being circulated, insulting the Board.  Well, the repairs were done, it took a whole summer. Luckily the roof that was leaking was under the outdoor parking area of our building.  Everything had to be dug up, it was a mess.   It was the determined that the work was improperly done, not to code.  We are now suing the builder, the city inspectors, the engineers.  
The good thing is, our underground garage roof does not leak at all.  

Our problem is a perfect example of owners not wanting to have large repairs done. They want to save money.  But in the long run, the problem worsens.  
What I could never understand with our building was that all owners had previously owned homes so they knew how important it was to maintain your home.  
When they moved here, it was like they went brain dead and forgot that no matter what you own - house, cottage, condo - owners need to keep the maintenance at a high level.


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## VacationForever (Jul 3, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I am guessing that there are many, many condominiums around the country (50%+ is my guess) with long overdue repairs that are not getting done due to the cost. This tragic incident is bringing awareness to the problems of living in a condominium with shared walls, roofs, foundations and other common structures. I doubt that another building will collapse like this one. I think this is an anomaly. To me, the real risk here is buying into a condo that needs repairs that are not getting done and getting special assessments of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars when/if they are finally done. I am glad we live in a single family home and can control our repairs and costs.


It really depends on the condo development.  We just sold our condo in a 26-unit building.  Our unit was entered into contract for $1.8M when built in 2008 before the developer filed for bankruptcy when the bank pulled funding due to the real estate crisis.  The cheapest unit was entered into contract for $800K.  It is built with steel and concrete, without any wood.  By design, there is no gas into the building, only electric.  The builder was a hospital builder and the building is so solid that I believe will stand forever.  The current owners bought the units "new" when an investor bought over the building from the bank in 2011.  A few years ago, when the HOA discovered planter boxes were breaking because the wrong type of palm trees were planted instead of those specified by the architecture design, the plants were removed, planter boxes rebuilt and planted with the right type of palm trees.  There were some standing water inside the courtyard, and similarly the entire area was redone with waterproofing.  The contractors took 3 months to complete the project.   Some of the windows in the condos had slight water leakage and all these windows were replaced, using HOA reserves.


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## WVBaker (Jul 3, 2021)

A letter sent in April from the president of the Champlain Towers South Condominium Association said that damage to the doomed building’s basement garage had “gotten significantly worse” since an inspection about two and a half years earlier and that deterioration of the building’s concrete was “accelerating.”

The letter suggested that millions of dollars in needed repairs had been a subject of frustration among residents. 

When residents discussed the report in 2018, the $7 million price tag led to turmoil on the condo association’s board, Miller recalled. 

She noted that cost estimates increase every year and that *the estimated bill for all repairs had increased to $16.2 million this year. The letter said the association could repurpose $707,003 in other dedicated funds to the project, but that would leave a bill of $15.5 million.

Wodnicki concluded that she hoped the letter would help some residents who believed “we are assessing too much” to better understand why a coming assessment would be so costly.*

“Your Board of Directors is working very hard to bring this project to fruition,” consulting with engineers, accountants and attorneys, she wrote. “We have covered so much ground already to get the project rolling."

Seventy-five days later, the building collapsed.









						'Significantly worse': Doomed Miami condo's concrete deterioration was accelerating in April, condo letter says
					

Deterioration in the basement garage of the Surfside condo building that collapsed had been getting worse, according to a condo letter in April.



					www.usatoday.com


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## DrQ (Jul 3, 2021)

Chrisky said:


> All these problems with this condo and the horrendous aftermath of the collapse IMO is a product of the lack of proper oversight of their board and the owners.
> Here in the condo where I live, part of our condo fees go towards the daily maintenance of the building as well as to the contractors we hire to do various jobs, like landscaping, fire alarm, garbage chute cleaning, general repairs, etc.  The other part of our fees go towards our reserve fund which is what can cover major repairs, carpet replacement, window replacement, etc.
> We also have to have, a reserve fund study every 3 years where an engineering firm comes into the building to see what needs repairs, what will need something done in the upcoming years.  The Board is bound to follow these recommendations, otherwise they could be held personally responsibile if recommendations are not followed.


The problem seems to be the length of the time between certifications.

If they had to do a structural deep dive and correct it every 20 years:

The damage would be caught earlier (less expensive to fix)
The board would have a deadline to hold over the owners (get certified or move out until it is certified)
Hopefully, disasters like this could be avoided
40 years between certifications is too long.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 3, 2021)

As The Death Toll Rises, Demolition Of The
 Collapsed Florida Condo Is Set For Sunday.










						As The Death Toll Rises, Demolition Of The Collapsed Florida Condo Is Set For Sunday
					

A top Miami-Dade fire official said demolition workers planned to bring down the remainder of the building. Two more bodies were found, bringing the number of confirmed dead to 24.




					www.npr.org
				



.


Richard


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## WVBaker (Jul 3, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I am guessing premiums will go up for all high rises in the Florida coastal areas after this. Also I read that Miami-Dade is considering further tightening building codes and inspection codes after this. This will certainly raise costs for high rise condos.



*Surfside tragedy rattles Florida’s condo insurance industry*

Within days of the partial collapse of Champlain Towers South in Surfside, insurance companies sent letters to owners of condominiums 40 years and older in South Florida, asking for proof that their buildings have passed all inspections, or they will lose their coverage.

Now, if a building can’t comply with the insurance requests, the insurer can cancel the policy with a 45-day notice, or choose not to renew the policy, said Isidro “Izzy” Guillama, chief executive officer of ProCom Insurance Underwriters, a Miami-based independent insurance agent who specializes in condo insurance.

But many insurers are not waiting, he said.

“Everybody has moved very quickly because they have a lot of liability, and a lot of risk,” Guillama said. “They’re looking at any building that is showing more than 40 years of age, and they’re asking for the recertification of the building.”









						Surfside tragedy rattles Florida’s condo insurance industry
					

“What happened in Surfside is a huge wake-up call for the industry,” one insurance expert said.




					www.tampabay.com


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 3, 2021)

Condo Wreckage Hints at First Signs of Possible Construction Flaw.


https://nyti.ms/2UZ9D8d.

Might be behind a paywall.

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 3, 2021)

Here's An Animated Simulation Of The Champlain Towers South Collapse That Helpfully Illustrates
 What We Know So Far - Digg.










						Here's An Animated Simulation Of The Champlain Towers South Collapse That Helpfully Illustrates What We Know So Far - Digg
					

Mike Bell put together a 3D animation of the Surfside collapse based on key photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts.




					digg.com
				



.


Richard


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## DrQ (Jul 3, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Here's An Animated Simulation Of The Champlain Towers South Collapse That Helpfully Illustrates
> What We Know So Far - Digg.


Excellent explanation. It clearly explains why the pool deck collapsing brought down the support columns. The punch through failure makes sense.

The reason the elevator shaft did not collapse was those walls have to go all the way down to the foundation to support the weight of the cars and counterweights.

Thanks Richard!


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## davidvel (Jul 3, 2021)

am1 said:


> Sounds like it should have been condemned if the repairs were not going to happen.  How many more could possibly be like this?


My understanding from articles is that none of the engineers believed that any of the needed repairs were structural/foundational to the extent that the building would collapse. Nearly a million of the repairs were for interior cosmetic improvements.  The references to concrete and rebar exposure repairs were related to exterior balconies that did not cause the building to collapse.

It may be that the pool foundation repairs were the root cause, but it was not known at the time the potential catastrophic risk.

ETA: There are now stories that the building's foundational structures/slab joints may not have been properly constructed per the plans, with insufficient reinforcing steel, which certainly could have contributed to the collapse.


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## pedro47 (Jul 3, 2021)

Every condo buildings with four (4) or more floors everywhere needs to be inspected that are over twenty (20) years old and they must passed a complete structure building inspection. IMHO.


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## DrQ (Jul 3, 2021)

I can see code changes. I would never have imagined that the failure of the pool/parking deck could pull down the building supports. I can see updating the code to decouple those two structures, even on existing buildings.


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## DrQ (Jul 3, 2021)

*Miami condo manager that city officials were delaying approval of urgent repairs just THREE DAYS before building collapse that left 24 dead and 124 missing*

*Board of Miami's Champlain Towers condo hired a consultant to inspect the building back in 2018*
*Numerous problems were flagged, and repair work was required in order to pass a 40-year safety recertification, due this year *
*E-mails obtained by The Miami Herald show the condo's management becoming increasingly concerned in recent months and pushing for repairs to start *
*However, emails they sent to local officials at the Surfside Building Department allegedly went without reply on multiple occasions *
*The condo's manager wrote angrily to an official on June 21 that a lack of response was 'holding up' urgent repair work*
*The building collapsed just three days later; the disaster has left 24 dead and another 124 missing  *









						Manager of Miami condo complained of repair delays before collapse
					

The condo was set to undergo repairs as part of a 40-year safety recertification, and it appears the complex's management team were eager to have the work done as soon as possible.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 4, 2021)

Champlain Towers South Condos Demolished










						Rest of Surfside Condo Building Demolished After Fears of Another Collapse
					

Concerns had been raised about search efforts being halted if the remaining structure were to collapse.




					www.thedailybeast.com
				



.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 5, 2021)

Search resumes at Surfside collapse site after demolition that could give crews access to new
 areas of the debris pile.









						Death toll in Surfside condo building collapse rises to 28
					

Search and rescue crews have recovered another victim from the rubble of the collapsed Champlain Towers South building, bringing the death toll to 28, Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said in a Monday evening news conference.




					edition.cnn.com
				






Richard


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## DrQ (Jul 6, 2021)

*Rescuers battle the elements to find 117 people still missing in Surfside condo collapse as Tropical Storm Elsa barrels towards Florida and death toll rises to 28*

*Tropical Storm Elsa is tracking to make landfall north of Miami sparking renewed optimism that the search for survivors would remain uninterrupted*
*Approach of the storm forced Florida officials to demolish the remaining portion of a condo building that collapsed 11 days ago*
*National Hurricane Center said few tornadoes were possible across south Florida on Monday night and across Florida peninsula on Tuesday *
*At least 28 people have been killed with over 117 still missing; 26 have been identified*
*Four more bodies were pulled from the rubble by search crews on Monday at the demolition site*









						Rescuers at demolished Surfside condo battle strong winds, Elsa closes
					

Tropical Elsa is tracking to make landfall north of Miami sparked renewed optimism that the search for survivors would remain uninterrupted.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 6, 2021)

How'd they do that? Florida condo implodes without disrupting search for bodies.









						How’d they do that? Florida condo implodes without disrupting search for bodies
					

The demolition removed the primary threat to search crews on the rubble trying to recover victims.




					www.pennlive.com
				






Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 7, 2021)

Surfside condo collapse rescue mission becomes recovery operation.










						Surfside condo collapse rescue mission becomes recovery operation
					

The search for survivors in the Surfside condo collapse has transitioned from a rescue effort to a recovery operation nearly two weeks after the tragedy. Manuel Bojorquez reports.



					www.cbsnews.com
				





Richard


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## DrQ (Jul 8, 2021)

*Rescuers hold tearful moment of silence for victims of Surfside condo collapse after officials said they are now conducting a recovery operation because the 'possibility of finding anyone alive is zero' and death toll rises to 54*

*Miami-Dade Assistant Fire Chief  Raide Jadallah made the announcement to families Wednesday, nearly two weeks after the Surfside condo collapsed*
*The decision came after workers searched through all of the new areas of rubble made accessible after Sunday's demolition of the remaining standing structure*
*At 7.15pm rescue workers held a moment of silence to mark the transition in operations *
*The death toll as of Wednesday rose to 54, with 86 still missing. Of those, 33 victims have been identified *
*Another victim, Elaine Lia Sabino, 71, was identified Wednesday night  *
*No one has been found alive since the first hours after the building collapsed early on June 24*
*Officials had told families earlier in the day that they had not given up hope*









						rescue teams hold moment of silence for victims of Surfside condo
					

Rescue workers at the collapsed condo in Surfside, Florida held a moment of silence Wednesday evening to mark the end of rescue operations at the site.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 8, 2021)

Surfside condo collapse: Death to Rises to 60.










						Surfside condo collapse: Death toll rises to 60
					

The death toll associated with the partial collapse last month of a 12-story condo building in Surfside has risen to 60.




					www.boston25news.com
				





Richard


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## clifffaith (Jul 8, 2021)

There was a short segment on I believe last night's NBC national evening news about a young girl apologizing to her teacher/coach for missing practice. She had been rescued with broken ribs and a broken leg, her mother was also rescued, dad is presumed dead. I'd never heard her story before and wondered why not.  I'd only seen reports of the young teen boy pulled out of the rubble in the first couple hours, so I wondered why the survival of the girl and her mom hadn't been told before.


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## VacationForever (Jul 8, 2021)

clifffaith said:


> There was a short segment on I believe last night's NBC national evening news about a young girl apologizing to her teacher/coach for missing practice. She had been rescued with broken ribs and a broken leg, her mother was also rescued, dad is presumed dead. I'd never heard her story before and wondered why not.  I'd only seen reports of the young teen boy pulled out of the rubble in the first couple hours, so I wondered why the survival of the girl and her mom hadn't been told before.


I read it on news media, either cnn or foxnews, since I read both, on the internet.


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## PigsDad (Jul 8, 2021)

clifffaith said:


> There was a short segment on I believe last night's NBC national evening news about a young girl apologizing to her teacher/coach for missing practice. She had been rescued with broken ribs and a broken leg, her mother was also rescued, dad is presumed dead. I'd never heard her story before and wondered why not.  I'd only seen reports of the young teen boy pulled out of the rubble in the first couple hours, so I wondered why the survival of the girl and her mom hadn't been told before.


I saw that story within the first day of the collapse, so yes, it was reported.

Kurt


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## am1 (Jul 8, 2021)

Hopefully the area is made into a memorial.  Anything less is wrong.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 9, 2021)

Death toll rises to 64 in Florida condo collapse.










						Death toll from collapsed Florida condo tower rises to 64
					

The confirmed death toll in the collapse of a Miami-area condominium tower rose to 64 on Thursday after crews recovered the remains of 10 more people from the concrete and steel ruins of the building.




					www.reuters.com
				



.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 9, 2021)

Mayor: Death toll in Florida condo collapse now 78.










						Mayor: Death toll in Florida condo collapse now 78
					

SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) — The death toll in the collapse of a Miami-area condo building rose to 78 on Friday, a number the mayor called “heartbreaking” as recovery workers toiled for a 16th day to find victims in the rubble.




					apnews.com
				



.


Richard


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## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2021)

am1 said:


> Hopefully the area is made into a memorial.  Anything less is wrong.



I doubt it will be made into a memorial. The owners would not make any of the investment back unless it is sold to a developer. My guess is they will sell to a developer and there will be a small memorial on the site.

Remember this disaster happened because the owners were fighting over repair bills. So why would they suddenly become altruistic?


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## am1 (Jul 9, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I doubt it will be made into a memorial. The owners would not make any of the investment back unless it is sold to a developer. My guess is they will sell to a developer and there will be a small memorial on the site.
> 
> Remember this disaster happened because the owners were fighting over repair bills. So why would they suddenly become altruistic?


I would not but there knowing the tragedy that happened there.  Maybe insurance pays out the improvement costs of the land.


----------



## rapmarks (Jul 9, 2021)

Most of the owners are deceased


----------



## DrQ (Jul 9, 2021)

*Video shows cracks in Champlain Towers a YEAR before Surfside condo collapsed: Prospective buyer says she didn't buy a condo there after seeing flaws in parking garage - as death toll rises to 78*

*The video was taken in the garage of the Champlain Towers South building in Surfside in July last year*
*Fiorella Terenzi toured the condo in anticipation of buying a unit on the 6th floor*
*She said what she saw in the garage ultimately turned her off buying*
*Terenzi's video showed wide cracks in the ceiling of the garage that appeared to have been repaired and painted over *
*Investigators, who have been at the site since the building collapsed on June 24, are still working to determine how it collapsed *
*It comes as an additional 14 bodies were uncovered in the rubble, bringing the death toll to 78 *
*Another 62 people still remain unaccounted for *









						Video shows cracks in Surfside condo a year before collapse
					

The video was taken in the garage of Surfside's Champlain Towers South building in July last year by prospective buyer Fiorella Terenzi.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## clifffaith (Jul 9, 2021)

clifffaith said:


> There was a short segment on I believe last night's NBC national evening news about a young girl apologizing to her teacher/coach for missing practice. She had been rescued with broken ribs and a broken leg, her mother was also rescued, dad is presumed dead. I'd never heard her story before and wondered why not.  I'd only seen reports of the young teen boy pulled out of the rubble in the first couple hours, so I wondered why the survival of the girl and her mom hadn't been told before.



While visiting my mom just now, my sister came out with her laptop -- someone found a kitty in the vicinity of the rubble and took it to the shelter. Kitty belonged to this family! Article also said there was a second daughter who had spent the night somewhere else and was not home during the collapse.


----------



## davidvel (Jul 9, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> Remember this disaster happened because the owners were fighting over repair bills. So why would they suddenly become altruistic?


It would be hard to remember because it has not yet been determined why it collapsed or if the proposed repairs would have stopped it from doing so.


----------



## silentg (Jul 9, 2021)

Very tragic, death toll is climbing, pray for the families.


----------



## DrQ (Jul 9, 2021)

silentg said:


> Very tragic, death toll is climbing, pray for the families.


I fear we know the death toll, it is just a matter of locating the remains.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> Most of the owners are deceased



That is not true. Half the owners or more are alive.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2021)

davidvel said:


> It would be hard to remember because it has not yet been determined why it collapsed or if the proposed repairs would have stopped it from doing so.



One thing that really bothers me about this is that people are suing the engineer who actually told them the building was in imminent danger. They are saying he should have told them it would collapse. That is so ridiculous. He told them in 2018 to get the repairs done because there were safety issues and he told them again in 2020. These people are looking for whatever money they can get.


----------



## rapmarks (Jul 9, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> That is not true. Half the owners or more are alive.


Renters or second homes?


----------



## DrQ (Jul 9, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> Renters or second homes?


One of the multiple towers did not collapse. Some did escape in the 6 minutes from the first cracking sound.


----------



## davidvel (Jul 9, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> One thing that really bothers me about this is that people are suing the engineer who actually told them the building was in imminent danger. They are saying he should have told them it would collapse. That is so ridiculous. He told them in 2018 to get the repairs done because there were safety issues and he told them again in 2020. These people are looking for whatever money they can get.


He reportedly told them it was in danger of having issues with balconies, not that it would collapse.

If your doctor tells you that if you don't get surgery you are in danger of getting hair on your chest, and you are contemplating the pluses, minuses, costs and a second opinion, and he didn't tell you you may also have a heart attack and die, your family may have an issue if you do have  heart attack and die. I am not saying the engineer knew it would fall if repairs not done (and multiple engineers didn't reach this conclusion), but the plaintiff theory is that they should have known and told the residents.


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 9, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> Renters or second homes?


For a start, owners of the portion of the building that did not collapse should be alive.


----------



## DrQ (Jul 9, 2021)

davidvel said:


> He reportedly told them it was in danger of having issues with balconies, not that it would collapse.


They were also informed of the issues with the pool deck but:

They (don't know who they are) said that the pool had to remain open
There was concern of foundation stability
It looks as if the collapse of the pool deck initiated the event.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2021)

VacationForever said:


> For a start, owners of the portion of the building that did not collapse should be alive.



Exactly. And many of the owners of the portion that did collapse were not there due to luck or because they were renting out their units. So I would guess that at least 75% of the owners are alive.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2021)

I am from Miami so this story interests me a lot. I have been following the reports closely. From what I read, the engineer clearly told the Board that there were safety issues. He just did not know the building would collapse. I doubt anyone would have predicted that. It just seems to me like people are looking to sue and profit off this tragedy. The lawsuits started within days of the collapse. You would think people would be more concerned about life and death than suing that quickly. I get that people want to blame others and get compensated but at least find and bury the dead before suing. It just disappoints me how these things work out and how greedy people get when mistakes happen. I think the Owners and the Board is responsible for this. Not the engineer they hired to help them fix it. They were fighting over the cost for years.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 9, 2021)

Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex

Three years before the deadly collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami, a consultant found alarming evidence of “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck and “abundant” cracking and crumbling of the columns, beams and walls of the parking garage under the 13-story building.

The engineer’s report helped shape plans for a multimillion-dollar repair project that was set to get underway soon — more than two and a half years after the building managers were warned — but the building suffered a catastrophic collapse in the middle of the night on Thursday, crushing sleeping residents in a massive heap of debris.

The complex’s management association had disclosed some of the problems in the wake of the collapse, but it was not until city officials released the 2018 report late Friday that the full nature of the concrete and rebar damage — most of it probably caused by persistent water leaks and years of exposure to the corrosive salt air along the South Florida coast — became chillingly apparent.

“Though some of this damage is minor, most of the concrete deterioration needs to be repaired in a timely fashion,” the consultant, Frank Morabito, wrote about damage near the base of the structure as part of his October 2018 report on the 40-year-old building in Surfside, Fla. He gave no indication that the structure was at risk of collapse, though he noted that the needed repairs would be aimed at “maintaining the structural integrity” of the building and its 136 units.…

… Eliana Salzhauer, a Surfside commissioner, said that while the cause of the collapse was unknown, it appeared to her that the problems identified by the engineer in the 2018 report could have contributed to the structural failure.

“It’s upsetting to see these documents because the condo board was clearly made aware that there were issues,” Ms. Salzhauer said. “And it seems from the documents that the issues were not addressed.”…


Read more here:









						Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex
					

A consultant in 2018 urged the managers to repair cracked columns and crumbling concrete. The work was finally about to get underway when the building collapsed.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 10, 2021)

Miami Building Collapse: Death toll rises to 79; rescue operations underway.










						Miami Building Collapse: Death toll rises to 79; rescue operations underway
					

Death toll in Champlain Towers South collapse is now 79. The mayor said 60 trucks a day have hauled away 13 million pounds of debris from the site.



					m.republicworld.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 10, 2021)

Did Surfside building official mishandle engineer’s report on doomed condo? Experts think so

When Surfside’s top building official received an engineer’s report three years ago pointing out “major structural damage” to a concrete slab and “abundant” deterioration of garage columns supporting a condo tower, Miami-Dade County’s building code spelled out a course of action.

It’s one that apparently wasn’t pursued.

Under that law, Rosendo Prieto had a duty to contact the engineering consultant and inspect problems to see if the Champlain Towers South condo was at risk of endangering residents, according to construction experts interviewed by the Miami Herald. They believe the report noted enough significant structural concerns — severe concrete cracking in the pool deck and garage areas and waterproofing failures — to meet the code’s “presumed to be unsafe” standard and trigger a follow-up examination.

Instead, after he was sent a Morabito Consultants’ engineering report by a Champlain condo association member, Prieto met with the board after reviewing the document and assured members that “it appears the building is in very good shape,” according to minutes of a Nov. 15, 2018, board meeting. 
If that’s all that happened, experts say Prieto’s actions fell far short of the steps called for in county codes……

Read more here:









						Did Surfside building official mishandle engineer’s report on doomed condo? Experts think so — Miami Herald
					

Under Miami-Dade County’s code, Surfside’s top building official should have taken steps to address “major structural damage” cited in a 2018 engineer’s report on the Champlain Towers South condo, experts say.




					apple.news


----------



## DrQ (Jul 10, 2021)

clifffaith said:


> While visiting my mom just now, my sister came out with her laptop -- someone found a kitty in the vicinity of the rubble and took it to the shelter. Kitty belonged to this family! Article also said there was a second daughter who had spent the night somewhere else and was not home during the collapse.


*'A ray of hope in this tragedy': Cat found ALIVE in rubble of Miami condo collapse is returned to its family*

*The cat named Binx lived on the ninth floor of the collapsed Champlain Towers South building in Miami's Surfside neighborhood *
*It was found wandering around the wreckage on Thursday night and was taken in by a rescue center    *
*A member of the Gonzalez family claimed Binx from the shelter on Friday *
*Two of his owners, Angela and Deven Gonzalez, were seriously injured in the collapse and remain hospitalized *
*Their apartment was sliced in half during the collapse on June 24*
*Officials have confirmed 79 people were killed, with 61 still unaccounted for*









						Cat found ALIVE in rubble of Miami condo collapse returned to family
					

The cat named Binx was found wandering around the wreckage of the Champlain Towers South building in Miami's Surfside neighborhood on Thursday before being claimed by family.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 10, 2021)

Review prompted by building collapse closes Miami courthouse.










						Review prompted by building collapse closes Miami courthouse
					

MIAMI (AP) — The Miami-Dade County Courthouse will begin undergoing repairs immediately after a review, prompted by the deadly collapse of a nearby condominium building, found that safety concerns exist within the courthouse, officials said.




					apnews.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## rapmarks (Jul 10, 2021)

I am curious about the ones that got out or were found alive. What floors did they live on?  Any details?


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 10, 2021)

Underground garages enrich developers, but create expensive problems for homeowners.










						Underground garages enrich developers, but create expensive problems for homeowners
					

No one in South Florida has a basement. So why, with the water table just a few feet below the surface, do developers build underground parking garages, structures that require expensive maintenance and leave a building vulnerable to deterioration? The answer is money. Shoving all the parking...




					news.yahoo.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## CanuckTravlr (Jul 10, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> I am curious about the ones that got out or were found alive. What floors did they live on?  Any details?



You need to look at the photos of the complex before and after the collapse of the northern part.  It had much less to do with the floor they were on and more a matter of where in the complex their unit was located.

You can see what the building looked like before the collapse on Google Earth, if you can't find photos elsewhere.  Then compare it to the photos after the initial collapse, but before they imploded the rest of the building.  The building was essentially two towers, connected by an elevator column.  Together they formed a sort of "L" shape.  The entire southern tower and elevator column remained standing, but unstable.  Those people got out, generally unharmed.

It was the ocean-facing half of the northern tower that collapsed.   That is the section where most of the deaths occurred.  The section of the northern tower facing the street remained standing, although with significant damage.  As I understand it, most of the people in that section were also able to get out, although many suffered injuries.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 10, 2021)

Only half of South building collapsed. The North building is completely separate and unaffected. It was built a year later.


----------



## CanuckTravlr (Jul 10, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> Only half of South building collapsed. The North building is completely separate and unaffected. It was built a year later.


 
I'm not sure if your comment was directed at my post #191, but I was NOT making any reference to the sister complex, Champlain Towers North, at all.   It has nothing to do with this.  That is why I specifically used the terms "northern" and "southern" to describe the parts of the affected building, Champlain Towers South.  It was the ocean-facing half of the northern portion of Champlain Towers South that collapsed, as I described.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 10, 2021)

CanuckTravlr said:


> I'm not sure if your comment was directed at my post #191, but I was NOT making any reference to the sister complex, Champlain Towers North, at all.   It has nothing to do with this.  That is why I specifically used the terms "northern" and "southern" to describe the parts of the affected building, Champlain Towers South.  It was the ocean-facing half of the northern portion of Champlain Towers South that collapsed, as I described.



Okay but using those terms is going to confuse people. Your post confused me. Luckily I know the story.


----------



## CanuckTravlr (Jul 10, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> Okay but using those terms is going to confuse people. Your post confused me. Luckily I know the story.



I'm familiar with the area, too.  Sorry that it confused you, but I'm confused as to why would you assume it was a reference to a completely separate building that had nothing to do with the building that collapsed, other than it was built by the same developer and has the word "North", not "northern" attached to it?  Words have specific meanings.  It now makes me curious how would you have described the relative parts of the Champlain Towers South to answer the question posed in post #189 by @rapmarks?


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 10, 2021)

CanuckTravlr said:


> I'm familiar with the area, too.  Sorry that it confused you, but I'm confused as to why would you assume it was a reference to a completely separate building that had nothing to do with the building that collapsed, other than it was built by the same developer and has the word "North", not "northern" attached to it?  Words have specific meanings.  It now makes me curious how would you have described the relative parts of the Champlain Towers South to answer the question posed in post #189 by @rapmarks?



I understand what you were trying to communicate now. You might want to mention you were talking about the southern and northern portion of the South building to avoid confusion.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 10, 2021)

CanuckTravlr said:


> You need to look at the photos of the complex before and after the collapse of the northern part.  It had much less to do with the floor they were on and more a matter of where in the complex their unit was located.
> 
> You can see what the building looked like before the collapse on Google Earth, if you can't find photos elsewhere.  Then compare it to the photos after the initial collapse, but before they imploded the rest of the building.  The building was essentially two towers, connected by an elevator column.  Together they formed a sort of "L" shape.  The entire southern tower and elevator column remained standing, but unstable.  Those people got out, generally unharmed.
> 
> It was the ocean-facing half of the northern tower that collapsed.   That is the section where most of the deaths occurred.  The section of the northern tower facing the street remained standing, although with significant damage.  As I understand it, most of the people in that section were also able to get out, although many suffered injuries.



You asked why your post confused me. The reason this is so confusing to me is your used the word “tower” to describe one building. You created your own definition of this building as being two towers but that is not what they were. You described one building as having a southern tower and a northern tower. This sounds like describing them as two buildings since the word “tower” is usually used to describe separate buildings. Then you said the northern tower collapsed. Really, the eastern portion of the South building closest to the ocean collapsed. I do not know how I would have answered the previous poster. There is not enough information released to the public yet to answer his question with anything except an opinion.

This has a clear map showing the collapsed portion. I would have described the “towers” you defined as being eastern and western, not northern and southern. So your geography further confused me.





__





						Miami Building Collapse
					

1km




					www.barrons.com


----------



## rapmarks (Jul 10, 2021)

I am familiar with the building. I stayed next door twice for a week. My balcony faced it what I am wondering about is the people who survived the part that collapsed. Not survived because they weren’t there, but were in the bui when it collapsed . People who were pulled from rubble alive or who ran out.  It seems to me that those in the part that didn’t collapse would receive value of contents and condo through insurance.


----------



## TravelTime (Jul 10, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> I am familiar with the building. I stayed next door twice for a week. My balcony faced it what I am wondering about is the people who survived the part that collapsed. Not survived because they weren’t there, but were in the bui when it collapsed . People who were pulled from rubble alive or who ran out.  It seems to me that those in the part that didn’t collapse would receive value of contents and condo through insurance.



I believe there is one $48 million insurance policy for the entire South building. I think they will all share in the insurance proceeds, which would be divided up based on unit size. The entire building has been demolished so regardless of whether it collapsed or not, their building is now completely gone. Even if it had not been demolished, no one could have lived on the side that did not collapse.

There are a lot of stories about people who escaped as well as about 30-40 people who were rescued from the rubble. I have not read a story that correlates who escaped or survived and was in the building by floor number. It would be interesting to read about this if such a story exists.

I am obsessed with this situation since I am from Miami. I search for new articles on it daily.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 10, 2021)

Surfside condo collapse death toll rises to 86.










						Surfside condo collapse death toll rises to 86
					

As of Saturday morning, 43 people were potentially unaccounted for, according to officials.




					www.cbsnews.com
				





Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 10, 2021)

Surfside Condo Collapse Binx the Cat Rescued, Reunited.










						Cat Named Binx Rescued From Surfside Condo Collapse, Reunited with Family
					

A black cat from the 9th floor of the collapsed Miami condo apparently has 9 lives -- because it's been found alive and well ... and now, reunited with grateful family members.




					www.tmz.com
				





Richard


----------



## rapmarks (Jul 10, 2021)

TravelTime said:


> I believe there is one $48 million insurance policy for the entire South building. I think they will all share in the insurance proceeds, which would be divided up based on unit size. The entire building has been demolished so regardless of whether it collapsed or not, their building is now completely gone. Even if it had not been demolished, no one could have lived on the side that did not collapse.
> 
> There are a lot of stories about people who escaped as well as about 30-40 people who were rescued from the rubble. I have not read a story that correlates who escaped or survived and was in the building by floor number. It would be interesting to read about this if such a story exists.
> 
> I am obsessed with this situation since I am from Miami. I search for new articles on it daily.


I can see why you are obsessed. I have a real phobia about heights and would look at those balconies and shudder.  But I will say that when you own in a multi owner building you need the condo insurance and private interior insurance


----------



## CanuckTravlr (Jul 10, 2021)

rapmarks said:


> I am familiar with the building. I stayed next door twice for a week. My balcony faced it what I am wondering about is the people who survived the part that collapsed. Not survived because they weren’t there, but were in the bui when it collapsed . People who were pulled from rubble alive or who ran out.  It seems to me that those in the part that didn’t collapse would receive value of contents and condo through insurance.



Other than one young, 15-year-old male pulled out right after the collapse, I'm not sure anybody else survived that was in the part that actually collapsed.   It pancaked, which significantly reduces the odds of survival for anyone in that section.   I'm not sure what part of the building he was in at the time of the collapse, but I believe all the other survivors were in the parts of the building that did not fully collapse.  Someone else may have more specific information, but I haven't seen anything more specific.  Many of those who did survive were able to get out on their own, while others required assistance from neighbours, rescuers, and authorities.  Obviously, anyone who was away at the time of the collapse survived, too.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 11, 2021)

Mayor: 90 deaths confirmed in Florida condominium collapse.










						Mayor: 90 deaths confirmed in Florida condominium collapse
					

Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said Sunday that 90 deaths have now been confirmed in the collapse of the 12-story Champlain Towers South in Surfside, up from 86 a day before.




					www.pbs.org
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 12, 2021)

Coronavirus infects vaccinated leader at Florida condo site.










						Coronavirus infects vaccinated leader at Florida condo site
					

MIAMI (AP) — A vaccinated Miami-Dade county commissioner who helped other local officials in Surfside following the collapse of a condominium building announced that he and his chief of staff tested positive for COVID-19.




					apnews.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 12, 2021)

Death toll at Florida condo collapse site climbs to 94.










						Death toll at Florida condo collapse site climbs to 94
					

Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said 22 people remain unaccounted for in the June 24 collapse of Champlain Towers South, an oceanside condo building in Surfside.




					www.stripes.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 12, 2021)

Collapsed condo: Weighing how to honor dead at 'holy site'










						Collapsed condo: Weighing how to honor dead at 'holy site'
					

Even as crews are continuing their search for the last remaining souls that perished in the collapse of condominium town in Surfside, Florida, questions are swirling across the community about what to do with the property




					www.boston25news.com
				





Richard


----------



## davidvel (Jul 13, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Death toll at Florida condo collapse site climbs to 94.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is getting old, and morbid. The death toll is bodies found/+ identified. It's pretty clear based on reports of those living in the building, those found and those missing, what the actual death count is.


----------



## DrQ (Jul 13, 2021)

davidvel said:


> This is getting old, and morbid. The death toll is bodies found/+ identified. It's pretty clear based on reports of those living in the building, those found and those missing, what the actual death count is.


I kind of agree:
As I said previously:


DrQ said:


> I fear we know the death toll, it is just a matter of locating the remains.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 13, 2021)

Surfside condo collapse: Body of Cassie Stratton is identified.










						Surfside condo collapse: Body of Cassie Stratton is identified
					

Authorities in South Florida recovered the body of Cassondra ‘Cassie’ Stratton, the wife of a political strategist from Colorado who had been staying at the Surfside condo during the COVID-19 pandemic.




					www.foxnews.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 13, 2021)

Condo collapse: Slab at center of investigation into Florida building was showing weakness in 1996: report.










						Condo collapse: Slab at center of investigation into Florida building was showing weakness in 1996: report
					

A concrete slab that supported the pool deck at Florida's Champlain Towers South condo building, which collapsed last month and resulted in the deaths of at least 95 people so far, needed "concrete structural repair" to seal 500 feet of cracks in 1996, new documents obtained by the Miami Herald...




					www.foxnews.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## rapmarks (Jul 13, 2021)

davidvel said:


> This is getting old, and morbid. The death toll is bodies found/+ identified. It's pretty clear based on reports of those living in the building, those found and those missing, what the actual death count is.


There will be novels written in the future featuring a person presumed dead in that collapse and living under a new identity and escaping something in their past


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 14, 2021)

Why dozens of inspections at Champlain Towers
 South didn't lead to red flags.










						Surfside inspectors visited Champlain Towers South dozens of times. Now its collapse is spurring calls for reform | CNN
					

Inspectors from the town of Surfside visited Champlain Towers South to review permits dozens of times in the years before it collapsed. Now, the Florida disaster could lead to stricter building rules.




					www.cnn.com
				





Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 16, 2021)

Engineer Investigating Surfside Condo Collapse Says He's Been Sidelined.










						Engineer Investigating Surfside Condo Collapse Says He's Been Sidelined
					

Allyn Kilsheimer, who investigated building failures after Sept. 11, said he's "pissed off" that he has not been allowed access to the Florida scene.




					m.huffpost.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 17, 2021)

One Of The Deadliest U.S. Accidental Structural
 Collapses Happened 40 Years Ago Today.










						One Of The Deadliest U.S. Accidental Structural Collapses Happened 40 Years Ago Today
					

The condo building failure in Surfside, Fla., is reminiscent of the July 17, 1981, collapse of two elevated walkways at the Kansas City, Mo., Hyatt Regency that killed 114 people and injured over 200.




					www.npr.org
				



.



Richard


----------



## DrQ (Jul 18, 2021)

*Son of couple who died in Surfside collapse says thieves stole IDs, withdrew money from bank account*








						Son of couple who died in Surfside collapse says thieves stole IDs, withdrew money from bank account
					

SURFSIDE, FLA. (WSVN) - The son of a couple who lost their lives in the partial building collapse in Surfside said thieves have stolen the...




					wsvn.com
				











						What is Ghosting? One More Form of Identity Theft
					

Stay informed about the latest identity theft news and stories about what law enforcement and elected officials are doing to protect consumers from becoming victims.




					www.lifelock.com
				











						Officials: Hacker stole identities of multiple victims killed in Surfside condo collapse
					

Disturbing reports are emerging of a hacker taking advantage of those who were killed in the partial collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium building in Surfside.




					www.local10.com


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 21, 2021)

The towering pile of concrete and debris from the Surfside condo collapse is now nearly an empty pit
 By Madeline Holcombe, CNN.










						97 victims in Surfside condo collapse have been identified. Officials believe there is one more unidentified victim | CNN
					

Authorities have identified 97 victims in the Surfside condo building collapse -- including 96 who were recovered from the collapse site and one who died in the hospital, Miami-Dade County officials said Wednesday.




					www.cnn.com
				





Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 23, 2021)

Avenue Next to Collapsed Surfside Condo Could Fail: Engineer










						Engineer: Avenue Next to Collapsed Surfside Condo Could Fail
					

An engineer hired to help figure out why a South Florida condominium collapsed last month is warning officials that it still might not be safe enough to reopen the avenue out front




					www.nbcmiami.com
				





Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 23, 2021)

Search for remains ends at collapsed Surfside condo site.










						Search for remains ends at collapsed Surfside condo site
					

The June 24 collapse killed at least 97 people and at least one more person believed missing in the disaster has yet to be identified.




					www.pbs.org
				



.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 26, 2021)

Family: Last victim ID'd in Florida condo building collapse.










						Family: Last victim ID'd in Florida condo building collapse
					

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — The final victim of the condo building collapse in Florida has been identified, a relative said Monday, more than a month after the middle-of-the-night catastrophe that ultimately claimed 98 lives and became the largest non-hurricane related emergency response in...




					apnews.com
				



.


Richard


----------



## PigsDad (Jul 26, 2021)

So the original number of people thought to be missing was around 150, but now the final total is 98.  Has anyone seen a news story on some of the people they originally thought were in the building?  I would think that would be an interesting article.

Kurt


----------



## VacationForever (Jul 26, 2021)

PigsDad said:


> So the original number of people thought to be missing was around 150, but now the final total is 98.  Has anyone seen a news story some of the people they originally thought were in the building?  I would think that would be an interesting article.
> 
> Kurt


Yes.  They said they double counted some of the numbers.


----------



## davidvel (Jul 26, 2021)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Family: Last victim ID'd in Florida condo building collapse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Among such a horrific tragedy, good news that there are 50 people alive that they feared had perished.


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## pedro47 (Jul 27, 2021)

DrQ, your information on "What is Ghosting ?" One More Form of Identity  Theft  is a must read and saved article.  IMHO


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## MULTIZ321 (Jul 31, 2021)

The Surfside death toll: Why didn't the numbers add up - Herald Mail.










						The Surfside death toll: Why didn’t the numbers add up?
					

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The final number of dead in the Surfside condo collapse was devastating: 98 lives lost. But at one point it seemed the number could go much




					www.bakersfield.com
				



.

Changed the URL


Richard


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