# Kaanapali Beach Club questions



## feckman

Hi All,

My wife and I stayed in a 1BR OV at the KBC in January.  We liked the resort/room and loved the pool/location, but we were a bit put off by all the DRI propaganda and the TS presentation we attended.  It gave us a less-than-comfortable feeling about Diamond in general, and specifically their management of KBC.

While we were on Maui, we also visited the Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas and decided to try and purchase there when we got home.  Our first offer was taken by Starwood through ROFR which leaves us contemplating what to do next.  We'll probably put in one more (slightly higher) offer at WKORV, but the more I think about it and the more research I do, the more it seems like there is much more "bang for the buck" at KBC.  The renovated unit we saw was tasteful and well-done, making a potentially declining property much more viable.

One of the biggest "draws" about WKORV for us is the ability to lock-off a 2BR unit which, I understand, is not an option at KBC.  Is this correct?  Also, is it true that none of the KBC units have a full kitchen?  For those who own deeded weeks at KBC, what is your opinion of DRI as a management company?  Are you worried about astronomical increases in MF under their watch?  And how independent is the HOA?  It sounds like Starwood's HOAs are essentially automatons for SVO which scares the hell out of me.

I did have a brainstorm this morning about the possibility of purchasing TWO oceanfront 1BR units at KBC to get around the inability to lockoff, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am letting kids stay in one unit while my wife and I are in another.  Has anyone done this kind of thing?  If so, how easy is it to get the units close together?  That said, the idea of two 1BR oceanfront units at 80% to 85% LESS than the cost of a similar-view 2BR at WKORV is very appealing!

Sorry for the 20 questions, but I appreciate any feedback we can get on them!  

--Jim.


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## daventrina

feckman said:


> I did have a brainstorm this morning about the possibility of purchasing TWO oceanfront 1BR units at KBC
> --Jim.


KBC doesn't really have oceanfront except for the two 2BR presidential units on floor 12.
Many of the deluxe ocean units are not on the oceanfront. :annoyed:
A bad choice a Sunterra added more timeshare units to the inventory. Made them more money ... but bad for owners


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## feckman

daventrina said:


> KBC doesn't really have oceanfront except for the two 2BR presidential units on floor 12.
> Many of the deluxe ocean units are not on the oceanfront. :annoyed:
> A bad choice a Sunterra added more timeshare units to the inventory. Made them more money ... but bad for owners



Thanks for the feedback!  So, how are all the units across the front of the "main" building classified?  Are none of those deeded weeks?


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## dougp26364

I'll give you an idea of the MF increases with DRI over our years of ownership. We've owned at Polo Towers since 1998 or 15 years. Originally our MF's were in the $500 range for a 2 bedroom unit. They are now in the $1,200 range. MF increases have average around 6%/year. There was also a $1,200 special assessment to add in when the HOA decided the dated "modernistic" look of the units needed a complete make over. Most of what DRI is putting in now is relaitively neutral in decor and I don't think we'll see a need for a total make over again.


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## artringwald

Whatever you do, I would not recommend buying into the Hawaii Trust. The Trust adds extra overhead so you end up paying more for MF's. The other problem I have with the Trust is that you could potentially have 4 times as many people contending for reservations at the most desirable resort.  Laws were written to prevent timeshare companies from selling the same week more than once, but DRI seems to have found a way around the law.

If you like KBC, buy a deeded week on the resale market. We've stayed there several times and haven't missing having an oven. We never used the electric frying pan either.


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## feckman

artringwald said:


> Whatever you do, I would not recommend buying into the Hawaii Trust.



There is not a snowball's chance in Hades that we'd ever buy points in a trust like that.  It's deeded weeks for us and nothing else. Not that points systems are bad for everyone, but we've decided to buy where we want to go and take our chances with II/RCI when we want to go somewhere else. 

So, does anyone know the deal on the units at the front of the property?  I assumed these were the Deluxe Ocean View, but is that not the case?  And can KBC 2BR units be locked off?

Many thanks again!


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## csalter2

*KBC has good rooms with oceanviews*

I think we need to identify what an oceanfront and oceanview is.  I have stayed at KBC and had a deluxe oceanview room. Our room was facing the ocean. There was no more oceanview that anyone can possibly have. Our one bedroom had sand beneath it.  The room was a nice size and there was no stove for us to cook on and there also is no washer dryer in the room. If that is important to you then you can go next door to the Papakea or further down the street to Valley Isle which are DRI affiliates that don't require as many points.  

KBC is a nice property, but there are not many two bedrooms. The other thing I have noticed is that whenever I am making reservations for KBC, I am always noticing availablility 10 months out for one bedrooms. I don't belong to the Hawaii trust, but to the US trust. So if I can get the room I want at 10 months out, I am sure those in the Hawaii trust an get what they want at 13 months out.


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## feckman

csalter2 said:


> I think we need to identify what an oceanfront and oceanview is.  I have stayed at KBC and had a deluxe oceanview room. Our room was facing the ocean. There was no more oceanview that anyone can possibly have. Our one bedroom had sand beneath it.



That's what I assumed, too, but from what daventrina said, it sounded like Deluxe OV is not guaranteed to be oceanfront.  I'm just wondering if there's some criteria that lets DRI give priority for those units to points owners as opposed to deeded owners.

As for the 2BR units, I know that there are 16 2BR units on the "wings" of the pyramid (every other floor on each side) and the two Presidential Suites on the front of the main building.  What I'm wondering is whether any/all of these lock off?  I've heard conflicting info on both.

Thanks again for all the info!


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## dougp26364

As I understand it, there is ocean view and deluxe ocean view. There isn't an ocean front designation. Some of the deluxe ocean view units face the ocean, some face the pool but have an open view to the ocean. The ocean view units are situated a little further back in the complex but can see some ocean.


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## csalter2

*2 bedrooms not lockoffs*



dougp26364 said:


> As I understand it, there is ocean view and deluxe ocean view. There isn't an ocean front designation. Some of the deluxe ocean view units face the ocean, some face the pool but have an open view to the ocean. The ocean view units are situated a little further back in the complex but can see some ocean.



The two bedrooms are not lock offs. I called KBC to verify this information.

The categories that DRI has for the rooms is 1 bedroom scenic view, 1 bedroom partial ocean room and 1 bedroom deluxe ocean view. The partial ocean rooms do not guarantee you will see the ocean. You may have a peakaboo view if any at all, but the deluxe oceanview is should give you a full ocean view. That's what I was told and requested. I got a full ocean view. 

DRI categories the two bedrooms as 2 bedroom, 2 bedroom any view and 2 bedroom Presidential Suite. It sounds as if the 2 bedrooms are hit and miss as far as view, but I can only assume that the Presidential suites would have to be ocean view based upon the large point totals to stay there.


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## feckman

Great, thanks for the info!  That's what I thought on both counts (lockoff and deluxe OV), but glad to have it confirmed.

And thanks dougp26364 for the info on MFs.  That doesn't sound so bad, and it seems consistent with what I've read from other DRI owners -- that the MFs have gone up, but substantial improvements/renovations have been made at the same time.

How about the HOAs, in particular at KBC?  Are they fairly independent of DRI, or are they just a mouthpiece?  Also, KBC does not have ROFR, correct?


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## dude-luv

*Rofr and other things*

We own a deeded week with an Ocean View category.  We stayed at KBC in January and requested units 840, 940 and so forth because we preferred the view from these units.  I went to KBC with the intention of staying a week there for the last time.  I fully intended to put my unit up for sale (literally giving it away) because I don't trust DRI and the way maintenance fees have risen.  

First of all, KBC has ROFR on all sales.  They did not exercise it when I purchased resale at a very low price five years ago.  I would never give my deeded week to them (they literally begged me for it).  No matter what, there is no exit strategy for getting rid of points.  They are literally not marketable.  All you need to do to verify this is to look at e-bay and many of the other sales sites to see how desperate people are to rid themselves of their points.

KBC does stack the HOA and controls all decisions within the resort.  The class action lawsuit that was filed was all about the control that DRI holds.  The settlement did little to rectify this.  

When I checked into the resort, we were assigned unit 616.  We argued with them for awhile (somewhat embarassing to do this) and were finally assigned unit 740 (an excellent poolside and ocean view).  They were pleasant all along 
but finally assigned us a much better room.  I don't know what to believe.  Do they assign 'better' units to members of the trust and treat deeded owners with disdain?  Hard to know.

I enjoyed the resort and still hold DRI with a great deal of contempt.  I have dealt with them in Virginia and several times at Poipu Pointe and KBC.  I will never give them my deed (for a ton of reasons).  I looked at rental opportunities and other ways of staying at the resort.  Free Wi-Fi and free parking make owning versus renting a better option to me for now. I also found that reserving my week was a fairly straight-forward process.  If maintenance fees rise dramatically in future, then I will reconsider my ownership.  A deeded week (in my opinion) is easier to get rid of and easier to trade than are DRI points.

These are just my opinions.


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## DaveNV

feckman said:


> we've decided to buy where we want to go and take our chances with II/RCI when we want to go somewhere else.




Something to be aware of is that there are a number of other exchange companies than just RCI and II. As an owner, you can deposit your reserved week with any exchange company you choose.  That is, assuming your HOA hasn't screwed that one up, too.  

Dave


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## feckman

dude-luv said:


> First of all, KBC has ROFR on all sales.



I thought that only the original developer had ROFR?  I haven't heard of a KBC sale being taken from a buyer through ROFR, but I could be wrong.  Diamond does not have ROFR over KBC though, correct?

And I thought the lawsuit had everything to do with the Point at Poipu special assessment and trust memberships -- two things we won't consider purchasing into.  The independent timeshare broker we spoke to in Hawaii said that purchasing a deeded week would protect us from anything but special assessments at KBC.  He also said that DRI only controls roughly 15% of all intervals at the resort.  The other 85% are still owned as deeded weeks by individual owners.


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## csalter2

*KBC w/points*

I own points with DRI and it is pretty straightforward in the Club rules that if you don't pay your maintenance fees, you are ousted from the Club and your points will be taken away. This can only happen if the points are paid for in full with no outstanding loans.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

feckman said:


> I thought that only the original developer had ROFR?  I haven't heard of a KBC sale being taken from a buyer through ROFR, but I could be wrong.  Diamond does not have ROFR over KBC though, correct?
> 
> And I thought the lawsuit had everything to do with the Point at Poipu special assessment and trust memberships -- two things we won't consider purchasing into.  The independent timeshare broker we spoke to in Hawaii said that purchasing a deeded week would protect us from anything but special assessments at KBC.  He also said that DRI only controls roughly 15% of all intervals at the resort.  The other 85% are still owned as deeded weeks by individual owners.


With regard to ROFR, I believe that KBC is set up the same as Poipu.  

At Poipu, the developer had a ROFR that lasts for 25 years after sales commence, which means that it will terminate in a few years.  Since KBC started sales about the same time, I suspect that the ROFR at KBC will also terminate soon.  As the successor in interest to the original developer, DRI has the ROFR.

I don't know how often the ROFR is exercised.  Ten years ago or so, when Sunterra was still viable, they occasionally exercised it. Then as Sunterra began having financial problems they seemed to have stopped exercising. I don't know how often DRI has used it, if ever.  They certainly have not been after the assessment.

As regards DRI control of KBC, the numbers you got from the broker strike me as being a bit low.  DRI controls both the inventory it owns directly, as well as KBC inventory that is in the Hawaii Collection, via it's role as manager and operator of the Trust.  If you add those two together I think that's a significant fraction of the overall resort ownership.


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## feckman

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> As regards DRI control of KBC, the numbers you got from the broker strike me as being a bit low.  DRI controls both the inventory it owns directly, as well as KBC inventory that is in the Hawaii Collection, via it's role as manager and operator of the Trust.  If you add those two together I think that's a significant fraction of the overall resort ownership.



It's certainly possible, but they were right in Lahaina and he certainly seemed to know what he was talking about.  He strongly (and strongly isn't a strong enough word) urged us to stay away from any trust/points-related purchases because all control of what properties are in the trust lies with DRI.  The way he explained it, every time they sell out of points "inventory" in, say, the Hawaii Collection, they just add another otherwise totally unrelated property into the trust.  For example, properties in Arizona or Missouri.

According to him, that's how DRI is still selling access to a property that was sold out years ago, and that's when he mentioned the 85% deeded, 15% DRI points figure.  The problem is obviously that every time DRI adds a property to the trust, (a) existing points owners' access is diluted and (b) existing points owners become liable for special assessments on all properties in the trust.  Like the Point at Poipu debacle.  He said that is NOT the case for deeded owners who are only responsible for (and only have access to) their home resort.

Anyway, that's what we were told.  Not sure how it squares with what others know about DRI in general and KBC specifically, but it was enough to scare us off from Diamond at the moment.  That said, it does seem like there could be a lot of value in KBC, especially in the Deluxe OV view category.  And so we're back reconsidering it...

Oh, the fun of trying to buy a timeshare in Maui!


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## dougp26364

feckman said:


> Great, thanks for the info!  That's what I thought on both counts (lockoff and deluxe OV), but glad to have it confirmed.
> 
> And thanks dougp26364 for the info on MFs.  That doesn't sound so bad, and it seems consistent with what I've read from other DRI owners -- that the MFs have gone up, but substantial improvements/renovations have been made at the same time.
> 
> How about the HOAs, in particular at KBC?  Are they fairly independent of DRI, or are they just a mouthpiece?  Also, KBC does not have ROFR, correct?



None of the HOA's are independent of DRI. 

Consider this, KBC is part of the Hawaiian trust. The trust votes the units it owns as a block. Because all owners don't vote and those that do they don't vote in lock step with each other. So the trust probably only needs to control 30% to get their way. The trust is controlled by DRI. the HOA is controlled by DRI by virtue of control of the trust.

If you want to own to use and occasionally exchange with II, I think it would be a good resort to own. DRI isn't the cheapest but they do maintain a reasonably high standard. U it's across the system, once DRI has managed a resort for a few years, is consistent and reliable. I've found their staff to be pretty consistent as well. It's a good system to own in.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

feckman said:


> It's certainly possible, but they were right in Lahaina and he certainly seemed to know what he was talking about.  He strongly (and strongly isn't a strong enough word) urged us to stay away from any trust/points-related purchases because all control of what properties are in the trust lies with DRI.  The way he explained it, every time they sell out of points "inventory" in, say, the Hawaii Collection, they just add another otherwise totally unrelated property into the trust.  For example, properties in Arizona or Missouri.
> 
> According to him, that's how DRI is still selling access to a property that was sold out years ago, and that's when he mentioned the 85% deeded, 15% DRI points figure.  The problem is obviously that every time DRI adds a property to the trust, (a) existing points owners' access is diluted and (b) existing points owners become liable for special assessments on all properties in the trust.  Like the Point at Poipu debacle.  He said that is NOT the case for deeded owners who are only responsible for (and only have access to) their home resort.
> 
> Anyway, that's what we were told.  Not sure how it squares with what others know about DRI in general and KBC specifically, but it was enough to scare us off from Diamond at the moment.  That said, it does seem like there could be a lot of value in KBC, especially in the Deluxe OV view category.  And so we're back reconsidering it...
> 
> Oh, the fun of trying to buy a timeshare in Maui!



How he described it is pretty much how all trust systems operate.  DRI so far has been using the "Hawaii" Collection really as a collection for "higher end" properties, at least as compared with the properties that are in the US Trust, which is mostly the old Club Sunterra mainland properties.  

He's absolutely and totally correct that if KBC is where you want to stay, then it makes no sense whatsover to buy into the Hawaii Collection.  In that case, you buy a deeded week in the view category that you want.  

*******

The only time it makes sense to get into any kind of a Club situation is if you want to visit different resorts regularly and the Club resorts that covers many of the places you want to visit.  In that case, the extra fees you pay to belong to the Club  offset against the exchange company membership and exchange fees you would be paying to exchange into those locations.  Plus, working through an club it's  usually easier to make reservations (you reserve directly from inventory instead of waiting and hoping for an exchange to come through) and you get better control of the type of unit you will receive at the resort.


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## Emi

We own a deeded deluxe oceanview and joined the hawaii trust when the price was viable when Diamond acquired the resort. Currently the price is very steep to join. We retain our deed ownership and deposit it for points when we wish. We are able to obtain deluxe oceanview (11500 pts) for the oceanview number of points (8500 pts) and $99 upgrade. We are very happy we retained deed ownership because the maintenance fees are much lower. Maintenance fee for 1 br was $700 before Diamond and now it is $1100. It is still lower than the other major resorts on Maui which has the highest timeshare real estate taxes. We also own a 2br at Marriott lahaina Tower and the maintenance fee is $2200 and I understand it is $2900 at Westin.  In all fairness, the fee was artificially low under Suntera management's creative accounting. It was their sales cash cow for selling their club. It left the resort with little reserve once the accounting was straightened out. The Gm has done a great job cleaning up the resort, putting it on good financial position and doing the renovations without special assessment. 

Deluxe oceanview are the units oceanfront and the units on the side of the front section overlooking the pool. It is about 50% oceanfront. We usually do not have a problem getting oceanfront unit although the oceanside units have great views as well. It all depends wheN you reserve and date of reservation with holiday weeks being more difficult. Also there are owners and club members who stay multiple weeks (eg 4 weeks) during winter season and getting the best units. The earlier you reserve the higher the priority of preference. The 2 Presidential units are at the 2 oceanfront corners of the top  12th fl. They are the only units with a full kitchen. The other 2bedrooms are in
the back section building facing the ocean. They are not lockoffs. The 
building was built very close to waterline which is no longer allowed under 
current building standards. 

Emi


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## dougp26364

Here is a link to the photo album of another TUG/Timeshareforums member of KBC https://picasaweb.google.com/vinolover78/MauiKaAnapaliBeachClub1BR1BAUnit1104November2010# . Towards the end of the album is a picture that shows where the ocean view, deluxe ocean view, scenic view and 2 bedroom units are located.


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## feckman

Outstanding information, thanks everyone!  And that image showing the location of the different unit types/view designations is fantastic.

The more we consider where we want to go and how we want to use the intervals (now and in the future), two deeded 1BR Deluxe OV units at KBC starts to make sense.  Especially compared with WKORV where we'd spend tens of thousands of dollars more if we wanted to get something similar in a similar view class.  We're still up in the air, but I'm going to talk with our agent today and see what we can come up with.

One final question -- does anyone have any insight/opinion as to a fair offer price for deeded Deluxe OV 1BRs at KBC?  They seem to go at rock-bottom prices on eBay ($250 to $500), but they you have to deal with the headache of potentially shady eBay sellers.  I'd rather pay a little more and have the comfort of a reputable seller/closing service.

And if anyone has other suggestions or advice on things we may not have considered related to KBC vs WKORV I'm all ears, and thanks again for all the great info!

--Jim.


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## TheWizz

I've purchased many TS from EBay - just look for the sellers with near 100% positive feedback.  There are several that are quite good and run a rep business.  There are also many TS selling websites where you can get a good deal - just goggle search for it and they'll show up.  I have exchanged into KBC many times and love staying there.  Most times in a 1BR DOV or OV, however, we did stay there one time in a 2BR MV room with my extended family.  Best of luck!


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## artringwald

I was nervous about buying through resale, so I bought our last one through RedWeek and used there recommended closing company. It cost more, but it seemed to be less risky.


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## Emi

Most of the ones i have seen on eBay are island view. No matter what the seller claims as view get the unit number on the deed. Call the front desk and give them the unit number to verify the view. Some of us here on tug can also verify for you. Good luck


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## Joelk

Coming in late to this thread...

We bought KBC (Deluxe Ocean View) when it was Sunterra.  I think there are three types of owners, folks that are part of the Hawaii Collection trust, deeded week owners, and what we are, deeded owners that are in THE Club.

Emi's description of the Deluxe Ocean View units are spot on.  I prefer the ones that front the beach, but the ones overlooking the pool are also DOV so about half the time we get one of the beach front units.

I can say that since DRI took over, the resort overall has improved (I do wish they'd paint it something other than pink though ).

-- Joel


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## dougp26364

As far as painting, that's likely budgeted for in the cash reserves and planned for at a specific date. So you may yet get your wish. 

I'm the same way. I hate the pink paint it hams now. To reprint early would just increase owners MF's and most owners wouldn't like that.


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## feckman

Just wanted to post an update -- we decided to move forward with purchasing two 1BR Deluxe OV weeks at the Ka'anapali Beach Club.  We originally intended (and had a pending sale on) a WKORV 2BR OV unit, but that was usurped by Starwood via ROFR.  After much consideration, the benefits of a KBC ownership -- especially multiple week ownership -- made infinitely more sense for us.  Our reasons for doing so include:


Cost is literally tens of thousands of dollars less than comparable view class at WKORV
Deluxe OV unit views will be at least as good as (and probably much better than) any WKORV OV views
Multi-week ownership provides 13 month reservation window
There are no event weeks -- we can reserve weeks 1 - 52
Very flexible check-in days (Th,F,Sa,Su,M) allow greater airfare flexibility
Dual membership in both RCI and II
The room renovations they're doing are very nice
We really liked the pool

The list of mitigating factors include:


DRI management quality is an unknown at this point (at best)
No full kitchens
No laundry in the units (although they have laundry machines on every other floor)
The resort is beginning to show its age in the common areas

Given the things we value, it really became a no-brainer.

Also, we've been working with Syed Sarmad who I can't recommend highly enough.  He's honest, responsive, professional and gets things done.  Definitely more expensive to go with a broker, but the information, ease and peace of mind make it worth the premium in my book, even for a "lower-end" property like KBC.  Also, we got a copy of the KBC disclosure statement which has a TON of interesting info about the way KBC has to be run, specific unit/view classes, etc. if anyone is interested.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for the input and suggestions...and please keep your fingers crossed that *these* pass ROFR!!!  

--Jim.


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## csalter2

*Enjoy!*



feckman said:


> Just wanted to post an update -- we decided to move forward with purchasing two 1BR Deluxe OV weeks at the Ka'anapali Beach Club.  We originally intended (and had a pending sale on) a WKORV 2BR OV unit, but that was usurped by Starwood via ROFR.  After much consideration, the benefits of a KBC ownership -- especially multiple week ownership -- made infinitely more sense for us.  Our reasons for doing so include:
> 
> 
> Cost is literally tens of thousands of dollars less than comparable view class at WKORV
> Deluxe OV unit views will be at least as good as (and probably much better than) any WKORV OV views
> Multi-week ownership provides 13 month reservation window
> There are no event weeks -- we can reserve weeks 1 - 52
> Very flexible check-in days (Th,F,Sa,Su,M) allow greater airfare flexibility
> Dual membership in both RCI and II
> The room renovations they're doing are very nice
> We really liked the pool
> 
> The list of mitigating factors include:
> 
> 
> DRI management quality is an unknown at this point (at best)
> No full kitchens
> No laundry in the units (although they have laundry machines on every other floor)
> The resort is beginning to show its age in the common areas
> 
> Given the things we value, it really became a no-brainer.
> 
> Also, we've been working with Syed Sarmad who I can't recommend highly enough.  He's honest, responsive, professional and gets things done.  Definitely more expensive to go with a broker, but the information, ease and peace of mind make it worth the premium in my book, even for a "lower-end" property like KBC.  Also, we got a copy of the KBC disclosure statement which has a TON of interesting info about the way KBC has to be run, specific unit/view classes, etc. if anyone is interested.
> 
> Anyway, thanks again to everyone for the input and suggestions...and please keep your fingers crossed that *these* pass ROFR!!!
> 
> --Jim.



You will enjoy KBC. I like it when I go there. The OV rooms I have been in were great. There are restaurants and food shopping stores within walkng distance. Also, the pool is great and the beach is on property.  I like it better than WKORV because it's not as busy as that property and it's not as expensive. DRI does try to maintain its properties and has great bedding too. Members like that a lot. I plan on being there for a few weeks next year. 

Congrats on your purchase.


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## dougp26364

If you don't mind paying the MF's for a well run, well maintained resort, then you'll be fine with DRI management. They do a good job and seem to higher good people but, it all costs money. While they are not the cheapest timeshare resort we own they are one of the better run and better maintained timeshare resorts we own.


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## feckman

Glad to hear that!  I'm sure it'll be great.  How bad can it be, 60ft from the ocean on Maui?


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## dougp26364

feckman said:


> Glad to hear that!  I'm sure it'll be great.  How bad can it be, 60ft from the ocean on Maui?



There are definately worse things in life. Hawaii is the one reason it woudn't be bad living in California. Just a short 5 hour flight and you're in paradise. As it is it's a 12 to 15 hour travel odessey for us, thus we don't make the trip as often as we'd like.


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## Chilcotin

*Pool depth at KBC*

A little off topic but does anyone know how deep the pool at KBC is at it's deepest point?  I like  to do aqua exercises but I'm tall and like at least a five foot depth.  Thanks.


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## feckman

Chilcotin said:


> A little off topic but does anyone know how deep the pool at KBC is at it's deepest point?  I like  to do aqua exercises but I'm tall and like at least a five foot depth.  Thanks.



It's definitely deeper than 5'.  The deep part is toward the ocean and I think it's around 7.5'.


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## Chilcotin

Thanks for the quick response feckman


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## PamMo

Another question about the view categories at KBC...  I looked at the resort layout (in photos mentioned in post #21 of this thread), and can't tell if the view designation is the same for all floors? The floorplan shows the rooms/view for floors 8 & 9, but states 6 & 7 have only 1BR's, so the layout is different. Does anyone know what level deluxe ocean view turns into partial ocean or garden view on the pool side?  Thanks!


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## ccwu

dougp26364 said:


> As I understand it, there is ocean view and deluxe ocean view. There isn't an ocean front designation. Some of the deluxe ocean view units face the ocean, some face the pool but have an open view to the ocean. The ocean view units are situated a little further back in the complex but can see some ocean.



KBC is a ocean front property (that means you do not need to walk cross the street to get to the beach.)  The resort has beach.  The delux ocean view is ocean front.  You do not have any building block your view of the ocean.  You look down from the balcony of the deluxe ocean view unit is the beach.  At the two corner of the ocean front room, is delux ocean view that you have two balconies.  You can not get any closer of the oceanfront than this.

I own KBC DRI points that I have flexibility to reserve any units 13 months in advance.  I would be guaranteed with whatever unit that I want.  If I want the corner unit of delux ocean view (ocean front), I will have one, not guaranteed with whick floor (I would only ask above 5th foor or so.  I had no problem with my Hawaii trust point system.  I love the flexibility.  I can have any unit (from one bedroom to three bedroom presdential.)  Never need a presidential three bedroom.  I know the two bedroom is not a lock out.  It does have full kitchen in the two bedroom even we never cooked there.  The deeded unit will not guarantee the room number, it will guaranteed the same view category.


----------



## feckman

PamMo said:


> Another question about the view categories at KBC...  I looked at the resort layout (in photos mentioned in post #21 of this thread), and can't tell if the view designation is the same for all floors? The floorplan shows the rooms/view for floors 8 & 9, but states 6 & 7 have only 1BR's, so the layout is different. Does anyone know what level deluxe ocean view turns into partial ocean or garden view on the pool side?  Thanks!



It is definitely not the same for all floors.  In fact, as you move higher, even units on the north side of the building (opposite the pool) become Deluxe OV.  Here are the pages from the KBC disclosure statement that outline view categories:
















And the property map:






As you can see, x12, x13, x14, etc. are all on the other side of the building but designated Type IC (Deluxe OV) on the top floors.

Hope this helps!


----------



## ccwu

Feckman,

Thanks for the information. Good to know the room arrangement and I can use the information to request one next time. So far I only know to request room ending with 08, or 12.


----------



## ccwu

feckman said:


> It's certainly possible, but they were right in Lahaina and he certainly seemed to know what he was talking about.  He strongly (and strongly isn't a strong enough word) urged us to stay away from any trust/points-related purchases because all control of what properties are in the trust lies with DRI.  The way he explained it, every time they sell out of points "inventory" in, say, the Hawaii Collection, they just add another otherwise totally unrelated property into the trust.  For example, properties in Arizona or Missouri.
> 
> Anyway, that's what we were told.  Not sure how it squares with what others know about DRI in general and KBC specifically, but it was enough to scare us off from Diamond at the moment.  That said, it does seem like there could be a lot of value in KBC, especially in the Deluxe OV view category.  And so we're back reconsidering it...



That is not true.  The Hawaii collection has only three resorts, KBC, point of Poipu and Polo Tower.  The US collection has may be 21 resorts includes Arizona, st. Maarten.  This is why the US collection MF is more stable since it is shared by 21 resorts or so.  I have a friend owns St. Maarten and refuse to change to the US Trust. She pays higher assessment fee than the US collection since any thing needs repair in St Maarten, there was no sharing From the trust and bear all by the st. Maarten owners. The Hawaii Trust shared the water filtration cost of point of poipu.  The deeded owners of the point of poipu would pay more if there is no pool to trust owners to share cost. DRI determine what needs to be updates.  I understand there were a lots of updates in KBC.  I will go there next month. I hope the swimming pool project is done and swimming pool is opened.  

I was a deeded owner and updates to points owner and bought more points from developer to become platinum elite member and I am pleased with my upgrade.  I am satisfied being in the Hawaii collection, even I was shocked for the 2012 MF to the huge water filtration charge for POP  I was told that I still have the deeds even it is in the trust only being more flexible.  It is more flexible, we can go for for any size of room, any view or roll over the Points to next year to have more rooms or weeks together.  At club, we can reserve at home resort 13 month in advance.  While deed can reserve 12 months in advance. So for holidays, club member would have a little advantage.  The US collection can reserve at KBC may be 9months in advance. The peak week may be gone when it is 9 month in advance. Deeded owner has floating 1-52 on availability. You still need to reserve as early as possible to get your week. The deeded week say week 8 does not guaranteed you have week 8. It is still depend on when you make the reservation. I like Internet search availability and reservation. I am not sure if deeded owner can do that. Besides, I can request any room I want. They will mark my request and I always get the room I requested.


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## csalter2

ccwu said:


> That is not true.  The Hawaii collection has only three resorts, KBC, point of Poipu and Polo Tower.  The US collection has may be 21 resorts includes Arizona, st. Maarten.  This is why the US collection MF is more stable since it is shared by 21 resorts or so.  I have a friend owns St. Maarten and refuse to change to the US Trust. She pays higher assessment fee than the US collection since any thing needs repair in St Maarten, there was no sharing From the trust and bear all by the st. Maarten owners. The Hawaii Trust shared the water filtration cost of point of poipu.  The deeded owners of the point of poipu would pay more if there is no pool to trust owners to share cost. DRI determine what needs to be updates.  I understand there were a lots of updates in KBC.  I will go there next month. I hope the swimming pool project is done and swimming pool is opened.
> 
> I was a deeded owner and updates to points owner and bought more points from developer to become platinum elite member and I am pleased with my upgrade.  I am satisfied being in the Hawaii collection, even I was shocked for the 2012 MF to the huge water filtration charge for POP  I was told that I still have the deeds even it is in the trust only being more flexible.  It is more flexible, we can go for for any size of room, any view or roll over the Points to next year to have more rooms or weeks together.  At club, we can reserve at home resort 13 month in advance.  While deed can reserve 12 months in advance. So for holidays, club member would have a little advantage.  The US collection can reserve at KBC may be 9months in advance. The peak week may be gone when it is 9 month in advance. Deeded owner has floating 1-52 on availability. You still need to reserve as early as possible to get your week. The deeded week say week 8 does not guaranteed you have week 8. It is still depend on when you make the reservation. I like Internet search availability and reservation. I am not sure if deeded owner can do that. Besides, I can request any room I want. They will mark my request and I always get the room I requested.



If you are a Club member with DRI you can reserve units with points at 10 months NOT 9 months.


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## PamMo

Wow, Feckman - that is GREAT information! Thank you.

So, have you closed on your KBC weeks yet? Did you end up with two annual 1BR deluxe ocean views?


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## feckman

ccwu said:


> That is not true.  The Hawaii collection has only three resorts, KBC, point of Poipu and Polo Tower.



Incorrect.  It also includes Sedona Summit Resort in Sedona, AZ and, according to my agent source, does or soon will include Suites at Fall Creek in Branson, MO. This may or may not be true, but there is nothing preventing them from adding more resorts and further diluting the pool of available points.

Also, multi-deeded week owners like us have 13 month booking priority as well. Apparently, DRI keeps two different reservation systems to keep deeded owners and points owners. DRI can only offer the units they control to points owners; deeded owners have access to everything else and are guaranteed access to their view category. More people in a smaller pool (where the number of people is increasing disproportionately quicker than the size of the pool) didn't make sense for us since we'll only be going to KBC or trading through II or RCI (KBC owners have access to both).


----------



## feckman

PamMo said:


> Wow, Feckman - that is GREAT information! Thank you.
> 
> So, have you closed on your KBC weeks yet? Did you end up with two annual 1BR deluxe ocean views?



My pleasure!  We haven't closed yet, but the units passed ROFR yesterday so it should (hopefully) be smooth sailing from here. We did end up with two annual 1BR deluxe OV units, and we're already planning our first trip as owners next year. Can't wait!


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## ccwu

csalter2 said:


> If you are a Club member with DRI you can reserve units with points at 10 months NOT 9 months.



Sorry, I mixed it with HGVC.


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## ccwu

feckman said:


> Incorrect.  It also includes Sedona Summit Resort in Sedona, AZ and, according to my agent source, does or soon will include Suites at Fall Creek in Branson, MO. This may or may not be true, but there is nothing preventing them from adding more resorts and further diluting the pool of available points.
> 
> Also, multi-deeded week owners like us have 13 month booking priority as well. Apparently, DRI keeps two different reservation systems to keep deeded owners and points owners. DRI can only offer the units they control to points owners; deeded owners have access to everything else and are guaranteed access to their view category. More people in a smaller pool (where the number of people is increasing disproportionately quicker than the size of the pool) didn't make sense for us since we'll only be going to KBC or trading through II or RCI (KBC owners have access to both).



Umm, that was what they told me when I upgraded from gold to platinum.  They said the risk is due to a smaller pool and fluctuation of MF is hight.  When I was in Tahoe last year, we went a DRI update.  They ask us to switch from the Hawaii collection to US collection, they told us again that Hawaii collection MF is high and risky for the fluctuation of MF due to the small pool of the Collection.  They emphasize again only three resorts in Hawaii collection.  Just to verify, could the trust owner of Sednona and Branson able to reserve KBC 13 mos in advance?  You can book any resort in your trust 13 mos in advance.  Do they have free parking in KBC?  I was told only the owners of Hawaii trust has free parking while the other trust reserve into KBC has to pay $10 or $12 parking a day.  I may go for an owner's upgrade at KBC.  I will ask again.  It is either the DRI agent did not know or your agent did not have the knowledge.  

For trading, I never use RCI since I can trade with II for $99.  II has more premier resorts, such as Hyatt, Marriott, Westin and four season.  RCI has HGVC.  I never trade my HGVC since I barely have enough points for myself to use.   RCI charges higher exchange fee.  I could trade in II with the DRI points for studio to get a two bedroom.  Not in RCI.  I have both free RCI (from BlueGreen and Wyndham and HGVC.) and II (from DRI).  DRI does not let you deposit any non DRI to the II account.  I have a separate account for Starwood Vacation Network and I can make deposit.


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## winger

feckman said:


> ...
> Also, multi-deeded week owners like us have 13 month booking priority as well..



Where is this documented? We are multi-week deeded owners and was unaware we had a 13-mo booking window. At best, we have 12 months for the reSort
 we hold the deed in.


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## gjw007

from diamond's website under faq, these are the members of the Hawaii collection

• Ka'anapali Beach Club, Maui, HI
• Polo Towers Villas, Las Vegas, NV 
• Sedona Summit, Sedona, AZ 
• The Point at Poipu, Kauai, HI

Sedona Summit and Polo Towers are also listed in the California collection

My understanding is that you can book units in your collection starting at 13 months and at 10 months you can book at resorts in the other collection (per simplicity guide section 8) under member information


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## feckman

winger said:


> Where is this documented? We are multi-week deeded owners and was unaware we had a 13-mo booking window. At best, we have 12 months for the reSort
> we hold the deed in.



Paragraph 3.a(iii)


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## dougp26364

winger said:


> Where is this documented? We are multi-week deeded owners and was unaware we had a 13-mo booking window. At best, we have 12 months for the reSort
> we hold the deed in.



Trust owners get 13 months in their trust, deeded week owners get 12 weeks home resort reservation window, THE Club can book at the 10 month point. It is my belief that there is a misinterpretation in the documents. Keep in mind that trust owners and deeded week owners are going to have different documents. Check you're own documents to see what was agreed upon in writing when the unit was purchased.

I can say with definity that Polo Towers deeded week owners only have a 12 month home resort reservation window. Polo Towers owners who convert their deeded week ownership into one of the DRI trusts will then have a 13 month home resort (trust group) reservation window. The only way I can reserve at the 13 month point is to convert our deeded weeks to a trust ownership. This is something I haven't been willing to do based upon trust MF's and adding in the trust management fee on top of THE Club's management fee. By the time you get involved in one of the trusts the management fee's have REALLY been piled on one on top of the other.


----------



## winger

dougp26364 said:


> Trust owners get 13 months in their trust, deeded week owners get 12 weeks home resort reservation window, THE Club can book at the 10 month point. It is my belief that there is a misinterpretation in the documents. Keep in mind that trust owners and deeded week owners are going to have different documents. Check you're own documents to see what was agreed upon in writing when the unit was purchased.
> 
> I can say with definity that Polo Towers deeded week owners only have a 12 month home resort reservation window. Polo Towers owners who convert their deeded week ownership into one of the DRI trusts will then have a 13 month home resort (trust group) reservation window. The only way I can reserve at the 13 month point is to convert our deeded weeks to a trust http://m.contracostatimes.com/contracosta/index.htmownership. This is something I haven't been willing to do based upon trust MF's and adding in the trust management fee on top of THE Club's management fee. By the time you get involved in one of the trusts the management fee's have REALLY been piled on one on top of the other.


Feckman - have you successfully booked at 13 months?  What Doug mentioned is my understanding ... but, I also own at Polo Towers.  On my purchase contract, the 12 months reservation window was written down.


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## feckman

winger said:


> Feckman - have you successfully booked at 13 months?  What Doug mentioned is my understanding ... but, I also own at Polo Towers.  On my purchase contract, the 12 months reservation window was written down.



No, but our broker, Syed Sarmad, told us about the 13 month booking window for multi-deeded week owners while we were evaluating our purchase, and the 390 day window is pretty clear in the Disclosure Statement.  This document was in force well before DRI took over management of the KBC (date accepted: 6/3/1998; date revised: 9/16/2007).


----------



## winger

feckman said:


> No, but our broker, Syed Sarmad, told us about the 13 month booking window for multi-deeded week owners while we were evaluating our purchase, and the 390 day window is pretty clear in the Disclosure Statement.  This document was in force well before DRI took over management of the KBC (date accepted: 6/3/1998; date revised: 9/16/2007).


This could be resort-specific. Very nice.

I would be curious to find out if their online booking system allows, OR it blocks it since this is maybe unique to KBC when you would simply need to call in the reservation to manually override the system.  Please report back if you ever try utilizing the 13 months provision.


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## csalter2

*Better check it out!*



feckman said:


> No, but our broker, Syed Sarmad, told us about the 13 month booking window for multi-deeded week owners while we were evaluating our purchase, and the 390 day window is pretty clear in the Disclosure Statement.  This document was in force well before DRI took over management of the KBC (date accepted: 6/3/1998; date revised: 9/16/2007).



There are two things to take into consideration. First, in order for you to book 13 months out, you need to be reserving two *consecutive* weeks. You can't book one week 13 weeks out according to this document, and those two weeks would have to be at KBC. Marriott has something similar to this in their contract for multiple week owners. So there is no 13 week advantage if you are only booking one week. 

Also, since you are buying resale, I would strongly suggest that you call DRI to check to see if that 13 week will transfer to new ownership. It's possible that it may not.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte

csalter2 said:


> Also, since you are buying resale, I would strongly suggest that you call DRI to check to see if that 13 week will transfer to new ownership. It's possible that it may not.



Is there still an owner reservations operation at the resort? If so, as a deeded owner that is where I would check and not with DRI.  If you do end up being referred to DRI, I would *not* ask them if this transferred with ownership.  I would ask them what the procedure is that you need to follow to be able to book at 390 days.  If they profess to  now know what you're talking about then point them to the provision in the disclosure statement.

I'm pretty sure that the provision will transfer with resale. All of the similar quirks in the disclosure staement for our Poipu unit transferred with the resale.  If it's in the Disclosure Statement and the Disclosure Statement doesn't specify that the perk is non-transferable, then it would be difficult for them to assert that the perk is changed.  The Disclosure Statement is a legal document, included as part of the original sales package, and it would be very difficult for them to unilaterally change the terms of sale.


----------



## feckman

csalter2 said:


> There are two things to take into consideration. First, in order for you to book 13 months out, you need to be reserving two *consecutive* weeks.



Elsewhere in the document, it talks about consecutive or concurrent weeks.  It is my understanding that as long as both units are being reserved (a) for the same week or (b) for consecutive weeks, 390 day priority is granted.  It is highly unlikely that we will ever do anything but consecutive or concurrent stays, so this works well for us.



csalter2 said:


> Also, since you are buying resale, I would strongly suggest that you call DRI to check to see if that 13 week will transfer to new ownership. It's possible that it may not.



Our agent has bought and sold many KBC units, and he said that it transfers so I'm not worried about it.  As there is no other superseding document to the Disclosure Statement, I can certainly make a good case if an issue ever arises.


----------



## dougp26364

feckman said:


> No, but our broker, Syed Sarmad, told us about the 13 month booking window for multi-deeded week owners while we were evaluating our purchase, and the 390 day window is pretty clear in the Disclosure Statement.  This document was in force well before DRI took over management of the KBC (date accepted: 6/3/1998; date revised: 9/16/2007).



Brokers are often wrong. They deal with to many different systems, all with different rules, and can't keep up.

The 13 month reservation for multi week ownership is a Marriott Vacation Club rule, not a DRI rule. DRI does allow trust owners to reserve within their trust group 13 months in advance. It was one of the perks sold for converting to the trust ownership. 

The problem with DRI is that it's a conglomeration of several systems. One group bought out another group that bought out another group. Over the years Sunterra aquired Embassey Resorts and Epic Resorts and then Sunterra was aquired by Diamond Resorts. So it is possible that some, but not all, resorts within DRI allow multiple week deeded owners to reserve 13 months in advance. However, you can't make it a blanket statement for all DRI resorts. I know of two examples where it's not true and that would be the Villa's at Polo Towers and The Suite's at Polo Towers. I'm pretty certain it's not true for the vast majority of formerly Sunterra resorts. I can't say what Embassey or Epic did prior to Sunterra aquiring them.


----------



## dougp26364

feckman said:


> Elsewhere in the document, it talks about consecutive or concurrent weeks.  It is my understanding that as long as both units are being reserved (a) for the same week or (b) for consecutive weeks, 390 day priority is granted.  It is highly unlikely that we will ever do anything but consecutive or concurrent stays, so this works well for us.
> 
> 
> 
> Our agent has bought and sold many KBC units, and he said that it transfers so I'm not worried about it.  As there is no other superseding document to the Disclosure Statement, I can certainly make a good case if an issue ever arises.



Interesting in that this really sounds like Marriott.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

dougp26364 said:


> Brokers are often wrong. They deal with to many different systems, all with different rules, and can't keep up.
> 
> The 13 month reservation for multi week ownership is a Marriott Vacation Club rule, not a DRI rule. DRI does allow trust owners to reserve within their trust group 13 months in advance. It was one of the perks sold for converting to the trust ownership.
> 
> The problem with DRI is that it's a conglomeration of several systems. One group bought out another group that bought out another group. Over the years Sunterra aquired Embassey Resorts and Epic Resorts and then Sunterra was aquired by Diamond Resorts. So it is possible that some, but not all, resorts within DRI allow multiple week deeded owners to reserve 13 months in advance. However, you can't make it a blanket statement for all DRI resorts. I know of two examples where it's not true and that would be the Villa's at Polo Towers and The Suite's at Polo Towers. I'm pretty certain it's not true for the vast majority of formerly Sunterra resorts. I can't say what Embassey or Epic did prior to Sunterra aquiring them.



Doug - with all due respect. 

while I don't know this particular broker, I can say that a broker who knows a particular system can be very knowledgeable.  When we purchased in Poipu, Hawaii Timeshare Resale was an extremely valuable resource; they knew details of all of the resorts on Kaua'i in great detail.

Also in this particular case, upthread feckman posted an actual scan of a relevant page of the actual KBC Disclosure Document that has the referenced reservation rights.  He's not in the least confusing Marriott and KBC. If, in fact, this is the effective Diclosure Statement language associated with the original sale of the deed(s), then it certainly appears that there is 390-day reservation right for owners of multiple deeded weeks at KBC when they reserve for consecutive weeks.


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## feckman

dougp26364 said:


> However, you can't make it a blanket statement for all DRI resorts.



I have not made any blanket statement about DRI resorts in general nor any statement about any other specific resort. We will only ever own deeded weeks at KBC and will NEVER own trust points through Diamond. Any examples i have offered relate ONLY to deeded-week ownership at KBC. 

Hope that clears things up.


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## TheWizz

I don't own KBC or any Trust-based Points.  I own deeded weeks: one unit at Fall Creek, One at Polo Suites and one at Polo Villas that were all converted to Club Points several years ago.  So I have access to all DRI resorts in The Club and Affiliates.  It seems I can book Hawaii Collection at the 10 mo. mark.  Anytime I have checked for availability (save prime-time weeks like Christmas), I have had no problems booking 6-10 mo. out.  I just checked and found a good bit of availability from 14-Nov-13 through 1-Mar-14 for all room types, save Christmas and New Years weeks.  If you can plan ahead and are in The Club, then 9-10 mo. out should have no issues with booking there.  I have done so 5 or 6 times in the past few years w/ no problem.  Of course if you want to spend _every _Christmas at KBC on Maui, then you might want to actually own there so you can book 12-13 mo. out.


----------



## fluke

dougp26364 said:


> Brokers are often wrong. They deal with to many different systems, all with different rules, and can't keep up.
> 
> The 13 month reservation for multi week ownership is a Marriott Vacation Club rule, not a DRI rule. DRI does allow trust owners to reserve within their trust group 13 months in advance. It was one of the perks sold for converting to the trust ownership.
> 
> The problem with DRI is that it's a conglomeration of several systems. One group bought out another group that bought out another group. Over the years Sunterra aquired Embassey Resorts and Epic Resorts and then Sunterra was aquired by Diamond Resorts. So it is possible that some, but not all, resorts within DRI allow multiple week deeded owners to reserve 13 months in advance. However, you can't make it a blanket statement for all DRI resorts. I know of two examples where it's not true and that would be the Villa's at Polo Towers and The Suite's at Polo Towers. I'm pretty certain it's not true for the vast majority of formerly Sunterra resorts. I can't say what Embassey or Epic did prior to Sunterra aquiring them.



Syed Sarmad has a very good reputation - particularly on this board of which he is a poster.  I don't think he is an "average" broker.  Also DRI cannot supersede the governing docs of the     Resort unless they were able to change them from control of the HOA.  I am not a KBC owner and am not familiar with their HOA or Governing Docs but if Syed has reported successfull implementation I would tend to believe it.


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## feckman

fluke said:


> Syed Sarmad has a very good reputation - particularly on this board of which he is a poster.  I don't think he is an "average" broker.



A big +1 on this. Syed has been GREAT to work with, and I'd highly recommend his services to anyone looking to work with a broker. Doing so may be (marginally) more expensive in the short run, but in my opinion having someone as knowledgable, responsive and professional -- not to mention patient! -- in your corner is more than worth any premium in the long run.


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## dougp26364

He might be right. I thought I had made that clear. Still, I stand by my statement that brokers are often wrong, even if their are a few that are rarely wrong.

DRI is an inherently difficult system to understand. I know that DRI does have a provision for 13 month reservation but, that's contained in the trust documents. Did I miss where it definitively shows the posted document is from a deeded week purchase and not a trust purchase or conversion? I myself have two sets of documents for our Polo Towers ownership after joiningTHE Club. While I know there's a difference I could probably copy and post a portion of one representing or believing it's the other.

Maybe KBC does have the provision for multiple week owners to make reservations 13 months out. Maybe KBC offered this under one management company but not the others. I do know I read these and other timeshare forums frequently and this is the first I've heard of it. Thus, I'm skeptical. At this time I think the voice of caution is prudent until we have owners with direct knowledge this is indeed accurate. Right now there's a few actual DRI owners who hadn't heard of this with deeded weeks and one broker. If you sell several systems (maybe this broker specializes in DRI, I don't know), I can see where it would be easy to confuse systems.

The concurrent/consecutive week reservations at 13 months is a mult. week benefit sounds amazingly like the Marriott weeks system. Is there some confusion between Marriott mult week, DRI trust and DRI mult deeded weeks? I believe the potential is relatively high and think it must be considered.


----------



## feckman

dougp26364 said:


> Did I miss where it definitively shows the posted document is from a deeded week purchase and not a trust purchase or conversion?



This should answer your question.  And it should be noted that we are not DRI owners.  To the best of my knowledge, we are deeded-week owners at a resort that DRI manages, governed by regulations in force before DRI took over.  Big difference.


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## dougp26364

Thank you for posting this. I will say that, due to all the mergers, take overs and bankruptcy buy outs, DRI has to be one of the most complicated timeshare systems on the market. It's amazing that DRI can keep track of all the different sets of rules. Is it any wonder management fees are so high?


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## T_R_Oglodyte

> Originally Posted by *dougp26364*
> 
> 
> _Did I miss where it definitively  shows the posted document is from a deeded week purchase and not a trust  purchase or conversion?_





feckman said:


> This should answer your question.  And it should be noted that we are not DRI owners.  To the best of my knowledge, we are deeded-week owners at a resort that DRI manages, governed by regulations in force before DRI took over.  Big difference.


And beyond the PDF Feckman posted, in 1998 there were no trust or point offerings at KBC.  Everything was fee simple.  Sunterra didn't begin selling Club Sunterra in Hawaii until about 2004, which is when the Hawaii trust was created.


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## artringwald

I bought a deeded week at The Point At Poipu in 2004 and it came with membership in The Club. In previous years I couldn't use the points to book KBC more than 10 months in advance. This year when I went to book KBC for 2014, it let me book 12 months in advance.  I'm not complaining, but DRI is so complicated even the software developers of their web site can't keep track of all the rules.


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## T_R_Oglodyte

artringwald said:


> I bought a deeded week at The Point At Poipu in 2004 and it came with membership in The Club. In previous years I couldn't use the points to book KBC more than 10 months in advance. This year when I went to book KBC for 2014, it let me book 12 months in advance.  I'm not complaining, but DRI is so complicated even the software developers of their web site can't keep track of all the rules.



Yep. Some things they don't even attempt to do on the web site, such as integrating grandfather clauses.  If you have a grandfather clause you can only use it over the phone. And when we first received our grandfather clause the system was supposedly set up so that when I talked to a rep on the phone they could access the grandfather letter, but they never could.  I wound up faxing a copy to them over and over, and the faxes kept getting lost.  For the first few years the only way I could use it was to call Ohana at the resort and speak to Patti Ornellas, who could see the letter and had the power at the resort to override the main reservation system.  

At the DRI message board I mentioned several times concerns I had that the system wasn't showing me all of the inventory it should. I was finally able to confirm with a senior rep in reservations that the system had a bug, and she wrote out a trouble ticket for IT.  Reportedly it is now fixed - after about nine months.  I haven't test driven it yet to verify the bug is fixed.


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## dougp26364

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Yep. Some things they don't even attempt to do on the web site, such as integrating grandfather clauses.  If you have a grandfather clause you can only use it over the phone. And when we first received our grandfather clause the system was supposedly set up so that when I talked to a rep on the phone they could access the grandfather letter, but they never could.  I wound up faxing a copy to them over and over, and the faxes kept getting lost.  For the first few years the only way I could use it was to call Ohana at the resort and speak to Patti Ornellas, who could see the letter and had the power at the resort to override the main reservation system.
> 
> At the DRI message board I mentioned several times concerns I had that the system wasn't showing me all of the inventory it should. I was finally able to confirm with a senior rep in reservations that the system had a bug, and she wrote out a trouble ticket for IT.  Reportedly it is now fixed - after about nine months.  I haven't test driven it yet to verify the bug is fixed.



Now that you've mentioned this, I witnessed a situation at The Ridge at Sedona. There were two gentlemen at the front desk trying to get their golf passes, which were included as a perk with their original purchase. At this point in time they apparently have to go through a song and dance every year with the front desk, who has to go get someone that can take care of it for them. 

I enjoy our DRI ownership but, for all it's simplicity it can be very complicated and, at times, apparently frustrating if you happen to be someone who has grandfathered benefits.


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## ccarr67

I don't own at KBC or have any Trust-based Points but am a member of the Club with weeks in Greensprings and Bent Creek.  While visiting KBC in March, we went to a presentation and were talked into joining the trust.  After thinking it over, we rescinded because we felt like we were pressured at the time and just weren't comfortable with making a decision so quickly. That being said last week we were contacted by someone in the corporate office who offered us a discounted rate if we were to revisit the option of transferring into the trust.  However since I was able to research a little and think about the offer after calculating the math, it would cost us $1500 more a year in maintenance fees which seems like a lot for an additional 2500 points that we were required to purchase to transfer our weeks into the trust.  My question is what exactly are the benefits of being in the trust vs. using the points to travel back to KBC and is this worth it?  My husband and I love HI but live in the midwest so it isn't very easy to get out as much as we would like now but we were looking at this more for when he retires. We had no problem booking the reservations 10 months out but they keep telling us that in the future unless we own there it will be hard to get a reservation if owners are booking 13 mo out. I've been a deeded member in the Club since Diamond took over and never really had any problems booking reservations.  I guess I'm just trying to make some sense of this and would appreciate any information anymore can offer me.  Thanks,


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## artringwald

I don't like the trusts because your paying more in MF to support the extra layer of management and then they get your HOA vote. If we went to KBC for a week every year, I'd be more likely to buy a deeded float/float week than trust points. KBC has never been hard for us to book 10 months out, and we usually go in Feb/March.


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## ccwu

we arrived KBC Friday at 3 pm.  When we check in, I told the front desk that we requested room ending with 08.  We had to wait for about 15 minutes for them to get us room 708. We had a beautiful corner room with wrapped around lanai, one side facing ocean and the other side overlook the swimming pool and ocean.    The room is gorgeous.  When open the curtains of the sliding glass door, it almost looks like a huge stateroom on a cruise line since it is the ocean you can see from the room.

We went for the owner's update because i need to find out some question.  
1.  The owners' chart indicated in 2008, 70% of the owner in KBC are trust members.  only 30% remain deeded.  The percentage of trust growed more since 2008. 
2.  There is more inventories for Hawaii trust members.  The deeded has less inventory.  Trusted members usually get better rooms.  It is difficult for deeded owner to have the corner ocean front room. 
3.  The inventory for KBC is getting fewer and fewer.  DRI acquired more resorts in 2013.  One of the most attracted reason for the newly acquired resorts to join to the trust is the Hawaii properties.  So the competition for trust owner to get into KBC in 10 months window is getting tighter from 2014 unless you own Hawaii trust.
4.  There is none of the Arizona trust member be Hawaii trust.  The early owner of the Arizona trust members belongs to US trust.  Only the one who purchased into Hawaii trust after the conversion from the developer.  So far all the inventory of Hawaii trust in Arizona are still hold by DRI.  It will be harder to get into KBC in 2014 unless you can book 13 months in advance.
5.  The ocean front unit of 11,500 points is sold at a discount price to platinum member of $65,000.  In the past the more points you have, the purchase of additional would be cheaper.  This is going to go away in July 2013.  They would not allow you to bring in the resale points to the club after July 2013.  
6.  The multi deeded owners can reserve 13 month in advance.  They will get the category of the room assignment matching the deed.  If the ocean front unit, the trust point owners, especially for elite members, will get the corner rooms before the deeded owners.  from 2014, only the points get from developer will be count as elite and not resale can be brought in.

Of course the above is from the marketing people.  

Anyway, we have a great time here.  Weather is great.  We took a Hawaii raft adventure, saw a lots of fishes and dolphins.  We feel our own beach by KBC is very good for snorkeling.  We see more fishes more variety here than the Hanauma bay in Honolulu.  I would highly recommend coming here snorkel and have a great time.


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## csalter2

*Sales  talk*

That's just a salesman trying to get you to buy more points. I heard the same story three years ago when I was there. I was sitting there during prime time in July and the saleslady tried to tell me I could not get to KBC during prime time and there I was sitting in front of her with my ocean view, excuse me, ocean front room from my 10 month reservation. I have checked every year and noticed that there is always inventory at KBC during the summers.  You may have difficulty getting a 2 bedroom, but there are usually always one bedrooms available. In fact I just checked, there are still ocean view one bedrooms available right now in July and August. 

I love that one about the platinum member of $65,000 gets additional discounts. They want to sell even when you are at the highest level in the Club. They don't stop, do they?  

Enjoy your time there.


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## post-it

ccwu said:


> we arrived KBC Friday at 3 pm.  When we check in, I told the front desk that we requested room ending with 08.  We had to wait for about 15 minutes for them to get us room 708. We had a beautiful corner room with wrapped around lanai, one side facing ocean and the other side overlook the swimming pool and ocean.    The room is gorgeous.  When open the curtains of the sliding glass door, it almost looks like a huge stateroom on a cruise line since it is the ocean you can see from the room.



Are the rooms ending in 08 a 2 bd, and if so are there ending #'s which are better for a 1 bd?


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## ccwu

post-it said:


> Are the rooms ending in 08 a 2 bd, and if so are there ending #'s which are better for a 1 bd?



Those are deluxe ocean view rooms ending '08' and '12' are the corner rooms.  The '08' one has wrap around balcony facing swimming pool and ocean front view.  the rooms ending with '12' also has wrap around balcony, facing Kaanapali Shore resort' and ocean front.  The deluxe ocean view rooms ending 08 to 12 are actually ocean front rooms.  When we sit in the dinning room table, looking at the balcony, you only see the ocean and it almost feels like a stateroom on a cruise, looking over the the ceiling to floor glass and see the ocean.  It is nice. The rooms ending with 09, 10 and 11 has only ocean front view.  You can request the corner room if you have a deluxe ocean view.  Not easy to get it during peak season.  I was told platinum elite member has the priority.  But I know someone who has deeded fixed week got the other corner (ending with '12')


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## post-it

Appreciate the information on the room # and locations.  I'll need this for our next booking.


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## rxdonut

*Value in DRI Points?*

Consider this:  You can purchase >100,000 points from the Bargain Basement section of TUG for less than $1,000.


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