# Over  my head and cant afford anymore---



## bandaid (Apr 7, 2012)

OK i was suckerd a few yrs ago,then i had been working close to 80 hr weeks,yes 80..and have been for along time now,so i thought i could afford my TS,i bought it at like $9,600 and owe like $6000,now these are just guess of $$,but my hours have been reduced to 50 and its getting so close every month with making my payment on my house,they take $200 month which has wilted away at my bank account---some ideas please---- plus gas going up and kids tuition.... 

one thing i have learned ,everytime we go on vac,we are harrassed with the meetings to sell more...and one day realized they do this everyday and have been for 20 yrs and will continue to sell for the next 20yrs,,,there must be a million ts owners ,no wonder why i can never go where i want...hate this..

please help


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## Passepartout (Apr 7, 2012)

Ya know that rock and that hard place that you are between. They are real. The sad truth is that if your TS isn't paid off, you can't even give it away. Wyndham doesn't have a great track record of taking deed-backs, but you could try. Tell them you'll bankrupt out of it or default and cause them to foreclose and they will get it back anyway. They might as well accept a deed-back and cut their costs. I don't know if it will work, but what you are doing isn't working either.

Sorry for the reality check.

Best wishes

Jim


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 7, 2012)

*Telling It The Way It Is.*




bandaid said:


> OK i was suckerd a few yrs ago


If I had any helpful suggestions, I for sure would type'm right here. 

What grabbed my attention is the key word in the opening phrase of your entry -- _suckered_. 

I have felt for a long time that the premeditated biz. plan of the full-freight timeshare companies is based on selling overpriced deeds to people who don't specially want'm, and who furthermore are not given any chance to research the product or the market -- i.e., no opportunity to learn the cold hard facts about timeshares or to do any comparison shopping.  Then the timeshare companies cross their fingers hoping the new full-freight buyers won't wise up till the cooling off period is over (the rescission period).  Then the full-freight buyers are stuck. 

If that's not a biz. model based on taking advantage of suckers, I don't know what is. 

Yet once when I used that word in a TUG-BBS entry, someone who had paid full freight for a timeshare objected energetically. 

I apologized, because I meant no offense to any timeshare owner.  Plus, the target of my criticism was the full-freight timeshare companies, not the full-freight timeshare owners who (by me) had been taken unfair advantage of by the full-freight timeshare sellers. 

And since then, I have taken care not to use that word any more on TUG-BBS.  

Still, the way that word is used at the top of a strapped timeshare owner's TUG-BBS entry is consistent with my view of how the full-freight timeshare companies have been operating all along, both when the economy was booming & now in tougher times. 

Shux upon'm.   (The full-freight timeshare companies, I mean.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## rrlongwell (Apr 7, 2012)

bandaid said:


> so i thought i could afford my TS,i bought it at like $9,600 and owe like $6000,now these are just guess of $$,but my hours have been reduced to 50 and i ... they take $200 month ...



The Corporate Wyndham Sales Office has or had a program where they would they would sell a timeshare to a new owner where the new owner basically would take over the payments and retain the VIP eligable status for the timeshare.  I do not know if they would do this in your case or not or what the criteria is for them to do it.  I would assume you would have to pay their Sales Commission, but I do not know that.  It would make it much more tempting to them if you had a buyer lined up for them.

Is this a deeded  timeshare or Wyndham Club Acess?  If deeded, what resort is it at and how many points is it.

UPDATE:

Just checked Redweek and at a few resorts for asking prices:

Westwinds

$3,397                2 bedroom 2 bath                Week 19

 Seawatch Plantation

$  999                 2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High
$3,900                3 bedroom 3 bath                 Floating week High
$5,590                2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High

Towers on the Grove

No listings

Wyndham Ocean Blvd

$   650                2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High
$   800                1 bedroom 1 bath                 Floating week varies
$   869                2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High
$   999                2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High
$6,000                2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High

Smokey Mountain

$   849                 1 bedroom 1 bath                 Floating week High    Even year use
$   910                 2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High    Even year use
$   950                 2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High    Odd year use
$4,500                 2 bedroom 2 bath                 Floating week High    Annual

Wyndham Cypress Palms

no listings

E-Bay listings for Wyndham Cypress Plams
Wyndham 84,000 POINTS Cypress Palms Resort Timeshare
Current bid: US $8.50


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## timeos2 (Apr 7, 2012)

*Not many choices now*

It is sad that the OP feels (probably rightfully so) snookered by the timeshare system model developers employ and that they owe $6000 on an ownership they would be lucky to find a taker for at no cost.  There is no real good answer as Alan notes. 

The advice to advise Wyndham of your intention to walk away may unfortunately be the best choice now. The OP would have to be prepared for the onslaught of collection calls (it is a debt owed even though the resale value is near zero) and a possible credit hit for a reported delinquency and potential foreclosure. If your payment history is otherwise good that shouldn't be a major hit. Most likely once Wyndham believes you won't be paying anymore they will accept a deed back in lieu of foreclosure but it may take some time to get them  to that point. 

Good luck to the OP and hopefully they will never fall for another slick sales presentation for anything - timeshare or not.  They seldom work out to the buyers benefit. 

One big warning. DO NOT pay anyone anything upfront to "be out" of this or you will be taken for your hard earned money AGAIN.  You really can't even give away a timeshare that has a loan outstanding so deal with Wyndham only to get this resolved.


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## bandaid (Apr 7, 2012)

rrlongwell said:


> The Corporate Wyndham Sales Office has or had a program where they would they would sell a timeshare to a new owner where the new owner basically would take over the payments and retain the VIP eligable status for the timeshare.  I do not know if they would do this in your case or not or what the criteria is for them to do it.  I would assume you would have to pay their Sales Commission, but I do not know that.  It would make it much more tempting to them if you had a buyer lined up for them.
> 
> Is this a deeded  timeshare or Wyndham Club Acess?  If deeded, what resort is it at and how many points is it.




like i said i worked 80hrs a week,so with having 2 boys...i didnt have time to remember my name even,so to the best of my knowledge...155K points deeded at Cypress palms every other yr


thanks for all your info TUG members


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## rrlongwell (Apr 7, 2012)

bandaid said:


> like i said i worked 80hrs a week,so with having 2 boys...i didnt have time to remember my name even,so to the best of my knowledge...155K points deeded at Cypress palms every other yr
> 
> 
> thanks for all your info TUG members



Timeshare Points 
Sell Your Points »

sort by  point allotment banked points anniversary month posting date price price per point  
 Point Allotment Banked Anniv Use Type Price  

 154,000   0   Oct Annual  Deed  $1,379 ($0.01/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Jan Annual  Deed  $1,497 ($0.01/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Jan Annual  RTU  $1,900 ($0.01/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Apr Annual  Deed  $5,500 ($0.04/ea) View  
NEW!  154,000   0   Jan Annual  Deed  $3,250 ($0.02/ea) View  
NEW!  154,000   0   Jan Even  RTU  $2,399 ($0.01/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Apr Annual  Deed  $5,000 ($0.03/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Oct Annual  RTU  $2,499 ($0.02/ea) View  
NEW!  154,000   0   Jan Other  Deed  $6,000 ($/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Jan Annual  RTU  $2,199 ($0.01/ea) View  
NEW!  154,000   0   Jan Even  Deed  $1,000 ($0.00/ea) View  
NEW!  154,000   119,000   Jul Annual  Deed  $650 ($0.00/ea) View  
NEW!  154,000   0   Apr Annual  Deed  $2,450 ($0.02/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Jan Annual  Deed  $2,299 ($0.01/ea) View  
NEW!  154,000   0   Jan Annual  Deed  $1,390 ($0.01/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Apr Annual  Deed  $3,000 ($0.02/ea) View  
NEW!  154,000   0   Jan Odd  Deed  $2,450 ($0.01/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Jan Annual  Deed  $750 ($0.00/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Jan Annual  Deed  $2,299 ($0.01/ea) View  
 154,000   0   Jan Annual  RTU  $1,379 ($0.01/ea) View  
 155,000   0   Apr Annual  Deed  $5,000 ($0.03/ea) View  
 156,000   0   Jan Odd  Deed  $1,400 ($0.00/ea) View


154,000 Wyndham Point contracts on E-Bay

POINTS 154,000 FAIRFIELD MOUNTAINS LAKE LURE                                          0 bids

154,000 Wyndham Grand Desert Las Vegas, NV - FREE CLOSING!                        9 bids    $152.50

154,000 Wyndham Points at Wyndham Grand Desert Las Vegas, NV                    10 bids   $750

154,000 Points Wyndham Resort at Sapphire Valley                                          0 bids

Wyndham 154,000 POINTS Patriots Place Resort Timeshare                               0 bids

Wyndham Bonnet Creek - 154,000 Annual Points                                             2 bids     $760

Club Wyndham 154,000 points                                                                     0 bids

Ocean Walk - 154,000 points                                                                      0 bids


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## funtime (Apr 8, 2012)

If you cannot take a deedback, strongly look into getting a primo week and renting it on Redweek and then Craig's List in the last 30 days. - That way the rent should take care of  the maintenance fees.  Best of luck with your budget issues.  Funtime


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## rrlongwell (Apr 8, 2012)

funtime said:


> If you cannot take a deedback, strongly look into getting a primo week and renting it on Redweek and then Craig's List in the last 30 days. - That way the rent should take care of  the maintenance fees.  Best of luck with your budget issues.  Funtime



Or maybe team up with someone on a lease agreement where they cover the maintance fees.  You would still get stuck with the loan payment given the current state of the rental market.  It sounds like your credit score is still in good shape, you might want to look at taking out a lower interest rate loan and pay-off the timeshare.  That may help on the montly loan amount.  You are probably looking for someone that is good at making reservations at great locations and time and then re-rents them for a profit.  They would make their money on the difference between what they pay you and what they rent it for.


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## vacationhopeful (Apr 8, 2012)

An EOY contract for 154K is about $41-45 monthly in MFs. That ain't what is killing OP - it is the payment for the original loan. Their loan interest rate might be about 15.9-20.9%. Look at getting a PROMO credit card with 0% interest for 15-18 months and use that to pay off original loan (if their credit is decent). Agreed that you feel strapped for something you use only 1 every 2 years - look for other savings in household - like cable TV, cell phones, cigerattes, dining out, paying for lunches while at work, movies/DVD rentals, computer access, a vegetable garden, etc.

If this is your only "bad debt/poor financial problem", paying the lawyer and filing fees for Bankruptcy would only put you onto a payment plan to pay off Wyndham anyways and those other legal fees.


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 8, 2012)

RR:

I am confused by your posts.

Yes, one can ask Wyndham to let out of contract, SOP advice here. Unless one has spouse, GF, drinking buddy, etc. in legal/deal cutting operation no way of finding secret to doing. Wyndham makes one sign confidentialy agreement to frustrate and discourage future requests.

Yes, it does happen as sales manager always has foreclosure deal in hip pocket for tough warm body that has said no way Jose to three prior sales people.

As far as what are time shares worth, one must look at closed e-bay sales where willing buyer and seller have a meeting of the minds.


Ads on RedWeek and other sites are meaningless (no axe to grind ) but just look at a few hundred to thousands to more than seller paid. They simply do not want to pay a post card guy and think that can actually make a few bucks. Try this, take ads you have posted and look at in a month and say six months. Most will still be there or withdrawn but no sales!  Also read ads for comments like 2010 MF paid which indicates how stale they are.  Like  home seller who says  neighbor got $300K for his pad  and mine is nicer. Screw the  $250K comps today, $325K take or leave!



Looking at e-bay ads  sorted by high to low they make no sense.



Branson Meadows  $11,500 for  154K points-high MF and no ARP value



Branson Meadows  $12.05 for 28K points .   $98 minimum POA fee  and closing costs will eat one alive. Cheaper to rent points if a few short!  RCI  28K deals  went with 1/11/11 massacre



Low MF or high demand resorts  around  $300-$500 for  around 154K points.



On second page most items have  zero or  $1.00 bids Savvy resale buyer  which most are wants  high ARP  and or low MF!



As far as  altering  Corporate contract,  in my some 30 years  as Controller  and business  executive  it is very  very seldom  sales person can change without corporate written  legal blessing. Not talking about  fill in blanks or check off boxes but  crossing out a paragraph or adding new  page you have worded. Shoot , on my  simple  Condo  lease  agreements  says only owner,  me, can change and must be in writing!



If you can get saleman to do this and Corporate audit approve,  you are one tough hombre  and negotiator!

Could you  post  a couple specific examples  you have personally  done like:


Joe, salesman guarantees me  he is my personal rep and can get me any reservation I want with 90 days notice, My wish is his command


Joe, salesman guarantees  me I  will be vacationng in Tahiti , Aruba, etc.  next month if I buy today(not an RCI  employee)


Joe  salesman guarantees me this is best deal going and prices are going up 10% next month(what about owner rep/survey taker  that tells me  for $100 today and $200 a month  will honor best price today for a year,  give free week and apply to new purchase)!


Joe, salesman  guarantees me this deeded   ownership in red hot resort area will  really go up in value.  Better than Park Avenue in Manhattan


Joe, salesman guarantees MY VIP  benefits  wil be grandfathered


Joe, salesman  says MF have never gone up here  and there will never be special assessment


Joe, salesman  guarantees room   one  will stay in is just like fancy model!


Joe advises resale points are no good and  Wyndham will not honor benefits


Joe advises me Wyndham is biggest and best. "F" BBB rating is big misunderstanding and will be  fixed tomorrow


Joe guarantees me  recission  form is just legal crap, if unhappy just call him and he will rip up contract 


Joe advises me if I do not upgrade to Gold  or CWA today I will go to  bottom of  pile and never get any  good reservations


Joe advises me I get a free RCI membership unlike Interval Resorts where one must pay $89  annual fee(No mention of POA fee)


Joe is giving me  a couple free weeks vouchers for this  resort( Actually RCI vouchers that cost $300  to use and clearly state only good  for excess inventory.  Last call is  much better!)



Paco


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## rrlongwell (Apr 8, 2012)

pacodemountainside said:


> ... As far as  altering  Corporate contract,  in my some 30 years  as Controller  and business  executive  it is very  very seldom  sales person can change without corporate written  legal blessing ... If you can get saleman to do this and Corporate audit approve,  you are one tough hombre  and negotiator!
> 
> Could you  post  a couple specific examples  you have personally  done like:
> 
> ...



I will defer to you on how to read and interprete asking prices on Red Week or E-Bay.  I am not a licensed appraiser, therefore am not qualified to render such an opionion.  I can only make observations to asking price.

The sales person is not the one with this authority, normally, nor is it normally the sales person that signs the contract on behalf of the legal owner.  Legal Agents of the owners are the ones that typically sign the contracts.  Approval for the changes are typically done at a higher level than a salesperson.  This is true in my cases also.  A auditor is not typically the person that signs off on the contracts for owner.  If a Owner followed the advise of an auditor that recommended a contract term not be honored because it was to benifical to the buyer, then the owner would be a fool and face the legal repercusions, if any, of following that advise.  The auditor could face additional problems if this type of advise was rountinely happening and could have licenseing problems as a result.

As for the examples of sales promises made by the sales person, I have never had any promises such as the ones you make made to me so I am not qualified to address those issues.  The only possable exception is, maybe the being given RCI certificates for use in conjunction with a purchase.  The wording was not as you indicated, they just gave me the certificates.  

As far as me negotiating a couple of great deals, I think I did and no, I do not see point in sharing what these deals are/were over and above what I have already posted on other threads which I do not see a need for me to repeat here.  My only point, if I was trying to make one, is that Wyndham does in fact negotiate the terms of purchases in some cases and sometimes will take contracts back (which you seem to have acknowledged has been known to happen).  What it comes down to, like used car sales, is how bad do they want to make the sale that day.  It is a two way street, not one way.  For what ever it is worth, when I go to sales presentations, I suggest they offer me a similar deal on the best deal I received from a purchase through Wyndham, so far, they have passed.  I am hopeful that maybe they will at some point.  Yes I am looking for the one in the Sales Manager's pocket.

As it relates to your comment "You are one tough hombre  and negotiator!"  My philosophy on this issue is if you win more than you loss then you are probably ahead at the end of the day.  For one long time employer I worked for that routinely dealt with settlements, to the best of my knowledge, no one in the history of the organization settled more cases than I did.


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## Passepartout (Apr 8, 2012)

Afraid I'm with Vacationhopeful. OP simply bought on credit while he was flush and now that he isn't, the payments are beyond his ability to pay.

Perhaps a 1 year no interest intro CC rate and pour everything into it might come close enough to pay off the Wyndham contract. It would take $500/mo but then the MFs would be manageable.

Not my job to pass judgement, just pointing out a way out.

Jim


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## rrlongwell (Apr 9, 2012)

Passepartout said:


> Afraid I'm with Vacationhopeful. OP simply bought on credit while he was flush and now that he isn't, the payments are beyond his ability to pay.
> 
> Perhaps a 1 year no interest intro CC rate and pour everything into it might come close enough to pay off the Wyndham contract. It would take $500/mo but then the MFs would be manageable.
> 
> ...



A couple of other options are:

Try to rent the unit through Extra Holidays (they take 40 percent if it rents) or convert it to maintance fee credits (this does not typically cover the Maintance Fee costs).  Neither of these help very much with the loan problem very much.


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## pacodemountainside (Apr 9, 2012)

OK, lets run some numbers as us Accountants like to say!


OP says  essentially 77K annual points.  Using  average  CWA rate of $4.89 (MF  calculator is down so cannot get actual for Cypress)  and  $49 for POA fee comes out   $425!


This would get a small 1 BR  in high season to deposit with EH.


So EH rents for  $800 about twice MF and takes 40% leaving $480 or profit of  $55.  I know some rental companies also deduct credit card fee and travel agent fee but don't know if EH does or 40% is all inclusive.

As Far as MF,   Wyndham  will convert at .0021 per point(page 327 of CWP Directory)   or credit of $162 leaving a cash loss of $263
.

Doesn't work for me!


I readily admit I do not have a solution other than call Wyndham and plead your case, but  above  is not a feasible  alternative.


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## bandaid (Apr 28, 2012)

TUG members are awesome,i do not have any progress to report but,want to thank everyone,given me some alternatives...yes the % is probably 18%-20%


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## dbmarch (Apr 28, 2012)

Renting at least reduces negative cash flow.     This would seem more prudent then falling behind in maintenance fees or loan payments.


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## am1 (Apr 28, 2012)

Renting this will be very tough.  Finding someone that wants to manage such a small account would be difficult.  I would question anyone that would be interested in managing your account.


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## Phill12 (Apr 28, 2012)

I agree with others that you have little chance of getting rid of it since you still owe $6000. From your post that your only working 50 hours aweek seems to put you way down the food chain for "can't afford it" as many of these owners that can't pay are getting zero hours!


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## TUGBrian (Apr 28, 2012)

think someone pointed about above that they likely owe the 6000 to a loan/financing company at a very large interest rate...not wyndham.

the annual maint fees are probably a completely separate payment.


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