# RE: The "Transportation Fee @ Wyndham Bonnet Creek



## Goofyhobbie

Today a Member of TUG has reported that the member met with the Wyndham Administrative Coordinator at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort specifically to talk about the so-called "Transportation Fee" that is to be charged each "Guest" checking-in to Wyndham Bonnet Creek on or after February 15, 2013.

As we all know, there was no such fee prior to the recent decision of the HOA Board of Directors at Wyndham Bonnet Creek.

Apparently the Shuttle Service to and from Disney World which has been a significant amenity shared by all who vacation at Bonnet Creek is a burden on the HOA at Wyndham Bonnet Creek and we can assume that Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc. is no longer chipping in funds to keep the Shuttle Service running. 

The HOA considers the fee a "Transportation Fee" and not an amenity fee.

The Board has chosen to not charge the fee to "owners" of Bonnet Creek points contracts or to "owners" of Club Wyndham Access contracts.

The $12 fee will, however, be charged at check-in, on or after February 15, 2013 when anyone other than the aforementioned "Guests" choose to check-into Wyndham Bonnet Creek as a "Renter," Wyndham Points owner at a home resort other than Bonnet Creek or as a Member of RCI who has used their timeshare interest to Exchange into Wyndham Bonnet Creek. 

*NOTE:*  The Fee is Mandatory and will be charged whether or not the Shuttle Service is used by all or any member of a party occupying the Unit being used at Wyndham Bonnet Creek. 

Carmen Morrow, a Wyndham employee, is the person that you might consider contacting if you want to get the attention of the Board of Directors of the HOA at Bonnet Creek.

If you choose to contact Ms. Morrow by "snail mail" the address is as follows:

Carmen Morrow, Administrative Coordinator, Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort;  9560 Via Encinas; Lake Buena Vista, FL  32830

If you choose to contact her by phone: (407) 238-3541

If by FAX:  (407) 238-3166

If by e-mail:  carmen.morrow@wyn.com 

The TUG Member who provided this information indicated that the Board of Directors is made up of five (5) individuals.  If my information is correct, three (3) of those five individuals are owners of at least one points contract which identifies Wyndham Bonnet Creek as the home resort.  

The other two (2) members of the Board of Directors are employed by Wyndham and may or may not own at least one points contract which identifies Wyndham Bonnet Creek as the home resort.

Apparently all who own a contract showing Wyndham Bonnet Creek as the home resort received an e-mail (assuming they had an e-mail address on file) sometime between January 27 and February 1, 2013 informing those owners of the HOA BoD decision regarding the so-called "Transportation Fee" and how it would be applied effective February 15, 2013.

RCI, according to a source at RCI who is in a position to know, has stated that RCI was notified of the change until on or about January 28, 2013.

*Note:*  As of January 31, 2013, RCI had not changed the confirmation information issued to recipients of confirmations at Bonnet Creek. However, as of February 1, 2013 confirmations had been changed to reflect the new charge.  The contact at RCI indicated that RCI had not had time to consider fighting the mandatory charge.


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## simpsontruckdriver

I stopped reading the expansive thread, as it got way too long. Just to clarify, is it a one-time charge of $12, or is it $12 per day?

TS


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## staceyeileen

is there any new information here that's not already in the other thread?


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## lcml11

staceyeileen said:


> is there any new information here that's not already in the other thread?



Composition of  the Bonnet Creek Board.  Confirmation that Wyndham Points holders are now second class citizens of Bonnet Creek if they are not Club Wyndham Access and/or a Bonnet Creek deeded owner.  A name address and phone number where a complaint can be sent to Bonnet Creek.  A emphises on "rentors" apparently being the primary target group along with RCI users and other non Culb Access Wyndham owners.

The most interesting point of this discussion is the different treatment being accorded to Club Wyndham Access owners over other Wyndham System owners.

I guess the next event is the Fairfield Trust meeting.  I do not think the trust will intervien.  Hopefully, they will think perserving what is left of a unified system is important to them.


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## scootr5

simpsontruckdriver said:


> I stopped reading the expansive thread, as it got way too long. Just to clarify, is it a one-time charge of $12, or is it $12 per day?
> 
> TS



Per day.....


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## antjmar

Thanks for the info Goofyhobbie.

*I think the BC Owners should contact the HOA*. In my opinion this will reduce the value of the BC Deeds. Not to mention that even owners guests will get hit with a fee!  Is that fair?  They should get rid of the fee for all Wyndham owners, before owners at other resorts tell their HOA to charge “Non Deeded Owner” fees.  I hope we aren’t heading in that direction.  That would impact almost everyone! 

*Let’s not forget we all own Wyndham points and already pay fees to be in our “system”. We shouldn’t be double charging each other!*

If they don’t want to raise the maintenance fee just get rid of the shuttle or charge per use.  At $84 a week extra I think many will consider other resorts in the future.  I believe the Disney “Non Owner fee” is $96 per week but you get picked up at airport and into park early.  And I am ok with that since I didnt buy Disney! A shuttle at BC isn’t worth this MANDATORY charge.


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## bnoble

> is the different treatment being accorded to Club Wyndham Access owners over other Wyndham System owners.


It makes a certain amount of sense.  Some Bonnet Creek inventory is in the CWA trust.  Therefore, every CWA owner owns "a little" of Bonnet Creek because of the way that CWA is structured.


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## CO skier

bnoble said:


> It makes a certain amount of sense.  Some Bonnet Creek inventory is in the CWA trust.  Therefore, every CWA owner owns "a little" of Bonnet Creek because of the way that CWA is structured.



Club Wyndham Access owners should then only get "a little" bit of a credit against the fee, proportional to the amount of Bonnet Creek inventory in CWA.

The whole idea of a points system is that evey owner owns "a little" of every other resort.  CWA is just a mini-version of that concept.


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## Rent_Share

Isn't BC the only Non Disney *TIMESHARE* property inside the complex.

The charge is slighlty less than what DVC charges their renters/exchangers

If you don't want to pay, vote with your feet and pick a property outside of the complex


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## lcml11

Rent_Share said:


> Isn't BC the only Non Disney property inside the complex.
> 
> The charge is slighlty less than what DVC charges their renters/exchangers
> 
> If you don't want to pay, vote with your feer and pick a property outside of the complex



Hilton, do not know if their are others.

Highlights


•Within 482-acres of Bonnet Creek Resort & surrounded by Walt Disney World®
 •3-acre Florida-style lazy-river pool & world-renowned Waldorf Astoria® Spa
 •Award-winning restaurants & championship golf club
 •Complimentary transportation to and from the Walt Disney World® resort
 •World-class convention center with outstanding conference facilities


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## timeos2

I said it when DVC started this costly (to owners/ exchangers) nonsense, again when RCI started to let Manhattan Club get away with a similar unfair and unwarranted charge and now with this one. 

If your resort ISN'T one that flaunts the rules of exchange as they were originally established (ie the exchange guest IS the owner with a different last name for the use year) and should be treated as an owner then institute a special charge of your own. It is quite simple. If an exchange guest is coming into your resort from any of the handful of resorts that pull this stunt then impose the " VIP unfair exchange fee". It is $25 to $100+ automatically added to their folio. When they inquire why explain that your owners are outraged that these fees are being charged and as long as they are any guest from those resorts will be assessed the fee from your resort. Calling it VIP should make those guests feel "special"

That, along with all "1's" or whatever the lowest available rating is for the various ranking cards RCI/II send out after an exchange for the resorts charging the unfair fees should eventually get the attention of the HOA. If not they will have owners being charged when they stay away from their home resort and hopefully lose any premium ranking they may have had with RCI/II. Fight back.


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## Rent_Share

lcml11 said:


> Hilton, do not know if their are others.
> 
> Highlights
> 
> 
> •Within 482-acres of Bonnet Creek Resort & surrounded by Walt Disney World®
> •3-acre Florida-style lazy-river pool & world-renowned Waldorf Astoria® Spa
> •Award-winning restaurants & championship golf club
> •Complimentary transportation to and from the Walt Disney World® resort
> •World-class convention center with outstanding conference facilities


 
Isn't that a Hotel franchise, not part of the timeshare division ?


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## antjmar

Rent_Share said:


> Isn't BC the only Non Disney property inside the complex.
> 
> The charge is slighlty less than what DVC charges their renters/exchangers
> 
> If you don't want to pay, vote with your feet and pick a property outside of the complex



I agree less people will eventually want to go there. 

It is advertised as being on Disney property, but you dont get any of the Disney Perks (extra  hour in AM and PM and picked up at airport).


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## CO skier

Rent_Share said:


> If you don't want to pay, vote with your feet and pick a property outside of the complex



That "defeets" the whole purpose of a points program.  People buy into the program to exchange into other resorts in the system.  People don't buy into a program with rogue HOAs that charge extra because they think their resort is "special."

If owners of a points system feel they must "stay away" from a resort in the system (for whatever reason), that resort should get the boot from the system.


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## CO skier

antjmar said:


> I agree less people will eventually want to go there.



... and why will the HOA care?  They are still getting the maintenance fees from the owners, and the $84/week from the suckers   uninformed who do exchange into BC.


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## siesta

antjmar said:


> I agree less people will eventually want to go there.
> 
> It is advertised as being on Disney property, but you dont get any of the Disney Perks (extra  hour in AM and PM and picked up at airport).


 I agree, if I was a BC owner, I would be livid. Many of those sales presentations pushed the fact that you could gift weeks to family, which was a selling point for many. Now their family would be taxed as well. If I am paying for a guest certificate at my home resort, I would expect my guests to be treated like me.

Additionally, as someone who will be sending my nieces and nephews (and ttheir parents of course) to disney in a year or two, I wiill definitely not choose BC anymore. A disney exchange thru rci will cost me the same points, and considering $99 for guest certificates and BC will fleece me for anothher $84, The rci exchange will cost me exchange fee + $50 guest certificate plus $95 disney fee, its only a ~$200 difference to put them on a true disney property with the perks. Well worth it IMO, especially when the kids will love the architecture and experience more, BC and its lazy river can shove it


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## antjmar

CO skier said:


> ... and why will the HOA care?  They are still getting the maintenance fees from the owners, and the $84/week from the suckers   uninformed who do exchange into BC.


If less and less non owners go there eventually they will have to balance the books with owners not just guests.


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## bnoble

> Isn't BC the only Non Disney property inside the complex.


Technically, the parcel on which BC sits is not inside the Reedy Creek Improvement District (the "government" owned lock stock and barrel by TWDC), though it is landlocked by it on three sides, and I-4 on the forth.  So, it "feels like" it is inside the complex, but legally it is not.  That parcel also includes a Wyndham hotel in the timeshare cluster, and a separate complex with a Hilton and a Waldorf=Astoria.

http://www.yesterland.com/bonnet.html

There are some hotel properties that are not owned by TWDC that do sit on RCID land.  Starwood owns the Swan and Dolphin in the Epcot area.  Shades of Green is to the west of the Polynesian and just south of the Grand Floridian, and I believe is owned by the Department of Defense---it is exclusive to current and former military members.  Finally, the seven DTD hotels are all on RCID property, but are farther out, past the Downtown Disney entertainment/shopping district.

(Note: it is possible that the land under these hotels is still owned by Disney, but leased to the companies who own/manage each hotel.  I'm not sure.)

Then there are the Golden Oak/Four Seasons plots.  Golden Oak is a high-end residential community ($1.6M+).  Four Seasons is building a hotel, and that might also contain fractional ownerships.  Both of these plots were de-annexed from RCID.  Likewise, when Celebration was developed, it was also de-annexed from RCID.  The only "residents" of RCID are high-level Disney employees, and so the company controls the results of any "election".


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## CO skier

antjmar said:


> If less and less non owners go there eventually they will have to balance the books with owners not just guests.



Bonnet Creek is big, but it is not so big the the rest of the Wyndham system couldn't absorb every owner from BC, and (taken to an extreme) BC sits empty the entire year.  Again, why would the HOA care if it did; they still get the MF whether the unit exchanges or sits empty.  They would make enough from the BC hotel guests at $12/room/day to pay for the shuttle.


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## bnoble

> The only "residents" of RCID are high-level Disney employees, and so the company controls the results of any "election".



As an aside, this is also why the Disney hotel Terms & Conditions have the following clause:

_Neither I nor any member of my party occupying any resort accommodation have/has any intention of making, and will never make, this resort accommodation a legal domicile or principal dwelling. My/our legal domicile is and shall forever be outside the Walt Disney World Resort._


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## BocaBum99

I am not sure how this new fee will impact rentals and/or value of deeds.

I think it will negatively impact rentals at the resort.  That's because the tax will reduce the net amount available to the owner for a rental.  That will reduce their willingness to offer the rental in the first place.  Rental supply should go down.   Non-VIP owners will be less likely to offer rentals in the future.   Megarenters will have less profit at this resort and focus on other, higher profit opportunities.

Owners who like to stay at BC will be more likely to purchase a deed at BC to avoid the fee.   This will increase resale demand and therefore resale pricing.

Wyndham owners who are price sensitive will be more likely to stay at other resorts to avoid the fee.  This will reduce reservation demand at the resort.

When all is said and done, this should result in even more availability at the resort.   More for extra holidays and outside renters who are willing to pay the premium for an onsite resort with transportation options.


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## antjmar

CO skier said:


> They would make enough from the BC hotel guests at $12/room/day to pay for the shuttle.



The majority of BC is a timeshare not a hotel. I believe of the 7 buildings only 1 is a hotel.
If  you really think they are able to sustain the shuttle with just charging hotel guests yet they are charging everyone where is all this extra money going?


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## tschwa2

I would think the Mega renters would still reserve the units and charge the same amount disclosing the check in fee.  If the unit doesn't rent at the desired price it would be released 14 days or earlier if the owner needs the points to reserve elsewhere.  Because of the use year re-alignment you may see less toward the end of the year.


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## CO skier

antjmar said:


> ... where is all this extra money going?



That IS the million dollar question and the whole point of this discussion.  The HOA will be raking in million(s) more than it takes to operate the shuttle, so why do they need to charge those (Wyndham owners and RCI exchangers)  who are just exchanging places with an owner who has paid the maintenance fee?

Charging true renters -- the hotel guests who have no ownership connection -- is more than enough to subsidize the shuttle system that is apparently not all that great of a benefit, anyway.  Plus, most hotel guests do not stay for a whole week, so they are not locked into an $84 charge.


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## Pietin

antjmar said:


> *I think the BC Owners should contact the HOA*. In my opinion this will reduce the value of the BC Deeds. Not to mention that even owners guests will get hit with a fee!  Is that fair?  They should get rid of the fee for all Wyndham owners, before owners at other resorts tell their HOA to charge “Non Deeded Owner” fees.  I hope we aren’t heading in that direction.  That would impact almost everyone!
> 
> *Let’s not forget we all own Wyndham points and already pay fees to be in our “system”. We shouldn’t be double charging each other!*



This is the whole point.  If HOA get to charge tax on non-owners that are allowed to trade within the system, what else will they be allowed to do?  What if the HOA decides that owners are not getting the prime weeks (for argument let’s assume ARP is not a factor) and they if you a non-deeded owner, you must pay $50 a night to reserve in prime season or what if they just say non-deeded owners cannot reserve during prime time.  What if they say that resale points can only be used after all retail owners get first pick?  What it they say non-deeded owners can only reserve 4 months out so that the deed owners get the rooms they want?  What if they say anyone coming in on a guest certificate must attend a sales meeting for them to honor the certificate?  You get my point.  This is why I think it is such a bad idea, not the cost but the concept of what could happen, if not today certainly tomorrow. To paraphase the Lion King, "in short our system is doomed"


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## BocaBum99

CO skier said:


> That IS the million dollar question and the whole point of this discussion.  The HOA will be raking in million(s) more than it takes to operate the shuttle, so why do they need to charge those (Wyndham owners and RCI exchangers)  who are just exchanging places with an owner who has paid the maintenance fee?
> 
> Charging true renters -- the hotel guests who have no ownership connection -- is more than enough to subsidize the shuttle system that is apparently not all that great of a benefit, anyway.  Plus, most hotel guests do not stay for a whole week, so they are not locked into an $84 charge.



The extra money will go to the HOA which will be off income statement funds which will be used to spend on other pet projects at the resort and management fees.   It won't go to the owners as reduced maintenance fees which is what should actually happen.


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## ronparise

tschwa2 said:


> I would think the Mega renters would still reserve the units and charge the same amount disclosing the check in fee.  If the unit doesn't rent at the desired price it would be released 14 days or earlier if the owner needs the points to reserve elsewhere.  Because of the use year re-alignment you may see less toward the end of the year.



Those of us that use our points for rentals, are not interested in making reservations, holding them for months and months only to cancel them at the 15 day mark.. I will only make reservations in advance if Im 100% sure I can get it rented (I wont say Im always right  but I havet yet had to cancel anything.)

My point is that we reserve weeks that have a really good chance of renting at a good profit. we dont make reservations and hope.   I know others are successful here, but Bonnet Creek has never been on my list because the points to reserve  is too high, and the anticipated rent is too low to give me the profit I want. Even with a VIP discount there are too many other weeks at other resorts where I can do better.  Another $84 per week  in the costs column for Bonnet Creek makes it even less likely that I will make advance reservations to rent here...


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## BocaBum99

ronparise said:


> Those of us that use our points for rentals, are not interested in making reservations, holding them for months and months only to cancel them at the 15 day mark.. I will only make reservations in advance if Im 100% sure I can get it rented (I wont say Im always right  but I havet yet had to cancel anything.)
> 
> My point is that we reserve weeks that have a really good chance of renting at a good profit. we dont make reservations and hope.   I know others are successful here, but Bonnet Creek has never been on my list because the points to reserve  is too high, and the anticipated rent is too low to give me the profit I want. Even with a VIP discount there are too many other weeks at other resorts where I can do better.  Another $84 per week  in the costs column for Bonnet Creek makes it even less likely that I will make advance reservations to rent here...



QED...............


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## ronparise

BocaBum99 said:


> QED...............



QED indeed

4 years of Latin at a Jesuit High School and I know what you mean


...but how may others here have any idea


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## lcml11

Pietin said:


> This is the whole point.  If HOA get to charge tax on non-owners that are allowed to trade within the system, what else will they be allowed to do?  What if the HOA decides that owners are not getting the prime weeks (for argument let’s assume ARP is not a factor) and they if you a non-deeded owner, you must pay $50 a night to reserve in prime season or what if they just say non-deeded owners cannot reserve during prime time.  What if they say that resale points can only be used after all retail owners get first pick?  What it they say non-deeded owners can only reserve 4 months out so that the deed owners get the rooms they want?  What if they say anyone coming in on a guest certificate must attend a sales meeting for them to honor the certificate?  You get my point.  This is why I think it is such a bad idea, not the cost but the concept of what could happen, if not today certainly tomorrow. To paraphase the Lion King, "in short our system is doomed"



If you are a Wyndham stock holder, the feeding on the system is GREAT !!!!!!!


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## MFT

I can see it now...

Wyndham Nashville:  Opry Transportation:  All guests will be charged $12 per day for transportation to and from the Grand Ole' Opry (BTW: The Opry only does shows on Sat, and half a year on Tues (the other half are at the Ryman)).

Wyndham Smoky Mtn: Dollywood Transportation:  All guests will pay $12 per day blah blah blah....

Smugglers already charges "Guests" to use their waterpark.  Wyndham owners currently don't have to pay, but I bet that changes to just Wyndham Smugglers owners, CWA, and VIP in the future.

If you can't raise the points per stay, go for the wallet another way.


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## lcml11

MFT said:


> I can see it now...
> 
> Wyndham Nashville:  Opry Transportation:  All guests will be charged $12 per day for transportation to and from the Grand Ole' Opry (BTW: The Opry only does shows on Sat, and half a year on Tues (the other half are at the Ryman)).
> 
> Wyndham Smoky Mtn: Dollywood Transportation:  All guests will pay $12 per day blah blah blah....
> 
> Smugglers already charges "Guests" to use their waterpark.  Wyndham owners currently don't have to pay, but I bet that changes to just Wyndham Smugglers owners, CWA, and VIP in the future.
> 
> If you can't raise the points per stay, go for the wallet another way.



Good points.  Just more reasons to buy the stronger resorts Wyndham Points and avoid the Wyndham resorts Wyndham Points that have no or little re-sale demand, you missed a few other great resorts.  This very well be well underway, I cannot help but notice, for the resorts I follow on E-Bay, that the available supply for great prices are disappearing.  A decent supply at any price appears to be going away to.  The Wyndham point is a Wyndham point theory does not appear to have traction in the real world market place.  I would let the $1 timeshares to the people that beleive in that theory and wish them well.  I wounder if the true belivers in the theory will still be true believers when the special assesments start rolling in.


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## Rent_Share

How is this different than an outrageous parking fee at the Urban Resorts >


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## timeos2

ronparise said:


> QED indeed
> 
> 4 years of Latin at a Jesuit High School and I know what you mean
> 
> 
> ...but how may others here have any idea



 Translating from the Latin into English yields, "what was to be demonstrated".


_Q.E.D._ is sometimes jokingly claimed to abbreviate "quite easily done". _Q.E.D._  can also be used to ridicule the specious reasoning of another person  by mockingly attaching it to the end of a poor argument, which was not  in fact successfully demonstrated or presented.


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## timeos2

Rent_Share said:


> How is this different than an outrageous parking fee at the Urban Resorts >



They seldom charge it if you don't have a car! (effectively don't use the "service")


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## Pietin

Rent_Share said:


> How is this different than an outrageous parking fee at the Urban Resorts >



When my wife worked in the hotel industry, she worked in the Downtown area.  The Hotels did not own the parking structures; they only rented a block of space.  When she worked out in the suburbs, they had parking lots, and did not charge thier guest because they owned the lot.  Similar principle.


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## am1

BocaBum99 said:


> I think it will negatively impact rentals at the resort.  That's because the tax will reduce the net amount available to the owner for a rental.  That will reduce their willingness to offer the rental in the first place.  Rental supply should go down.   Non-VIP owners will be less likely to offer rentals in the future.   Megarenters will have less profit at this resort and focus on other, higher profit opportunities.



I am going to find a way to profit from this.


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## lcml11

am1 said:


> I am going to find a way to profit from this.



Invest in Corporate Wyndham stock?


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## jjlovecub

I am really upset by this. When I made my exchange there were other resorts available. I however chose this one. I have an annual pass and get parking free. Parking is $15 anyways so $12 a day (with very few going to Disney all 7 days) is a ripoff! I called RCI and there is nothing else available. I understand adding a fee but AFTER the fact and $84 both in my opinion are not reasonable.


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## jjlovecub

I called and asked for the Resort Manager's email. They refused to give it to me. They said I could send a general email and they would sort it. The response to me was "He sent out an email and we don't want people all emailing him about it." Oh that is just great. I can see where this is going to get me. So if anybody happens to have Mr. Scinta's email I would appreciate it. You can even PM me with it if you don't want to post it. I promise to be polite in my email. Thanks!


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## csxjohn

jjlovecub said:


> I am really upset by this. When I made my exchange there were other resorts available. I however chose this one. I have an annual pass and get parking free. Parking is $15 anyways so $12 a day (with very few going to Disney all 7 days) is a ripoff! I called RCI and there is nothing else available. I understand adding a fee but AFTER the fact and $84 both in my opinion are not reasonable.



If nothing else works I would make the payment with a credit, not debit, card then dispute the charge on the grounds that the fee was added after you got the confirmed reservation and they would not let you check in without paying it.

In other words the charge was added after the fact.


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## csxjohn

jjlovecub said:


> ..."He sent out an email and we don't want people all emailing him about it."...



He should have thought about that before he sent it out.


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## ronparise

most Wyndham emails follow the format   firstname.lastname@wyn.com

The op posted this

If you choose to contact her by phone: (407) 238-3541

If by FAX: (407) 238-3166

If by e-mail: carmen.morrow@wyn.com


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## BocaBum99

am1 said:


> I am going to find a way to profit from this.



The way to profit would be to capitalize on the reduction of rentals from other owners and greater availability.  Sure, there will be fewer renters willing to pay a high rate and the transportation fee, but if you promote the fact and get a lot of availability at 50% discount due to your platinum status, you can make money by increasing your market share.   That assumes you don't have other resorts that have greater margin already in which case trying to profit from it is a waste of time.


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## JimMIA

Rent_Share said:


> Isn't BC the only Non Disney TIMESHARE property inside the complex.


Depends on how fine you want to split hairs.

_Is it actually on Disney property?_ *No.

*_Do you have to drive past the Disney gates to get there?_ *Yes.

*_Is it closer to some Disney theme parks than some Disney resorts? _*Yes.

*_Does a WBC guest enjoy the "perks" of staying onsite (DDP, Disney transportation, DME, billing to the room, free parking at theme parks, etc, etc, etc.)?  _*No.

*


> The charge is slighlty less than what DVC charges their renters/exchangers


 Again, depends on what you mean.

Disney charges _renters_ (either directly from Disney, or from a DVC member)... *ZERO*.

Disney charges RCI exchangers $95 for a week.  WBC is charging $12 per day.  If you stay at WBC 8 days, it's $96 vs. $95.   If you stay at WBC 3 days, DVC's charge is WAY more.   

Depends on what you mean.


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## CO skier

... haven't seen an EBay auction used in this way before.

The seller seems a bit mixed-up -- maybe a Bonnnet Creek owner or maybe just a Club Wydham owner, but the seller is certainly riled-up about the new fee at BC.

If nothing else, here is your invitation to the BC HOA BOD meeting on May 14th.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290859171030#description


or maybe they will let only owners attend, so the HOA can explain that the fee does not apply to owners that stay at BC.


Edited to add:  A few days ago, I made a reservation at a name brand hotel in Breckenridge.  The valet parking service at the hotel used to be optional, now it is a $25/day mandatory charge (upon arrival, the manager and I will be discussing how mandatory this is).  These kind of new fees for services that should be optional are spreading like a virus.


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## Goofyhobbie

The e-bay member who posted the aforementioned advertisement at E-Bay is innovative and definitely will get the attention of many who may be considering Wyndham Points.

I do not think he or she is mixed up. 

They know exactly what they are doing.

Once the idea of hitting folks who can not do anything about the hit gets around, HOA's if not developers will bend over backwards to take advantage.

Time SHARING will change as a way of getting access simply because it will become more and more expensive to go somewhere other than where you personally own.

Ways to get this point across:

1) Go to the initial posting within this thread and note the various ways to contact the BOD of the HOA that has implemented the fee.

2) If you have a reservation at Bonnet Creek consider filling out the "Satisfaction Survey" which will give you the opportunity to grade the resort on a 1 to 10 scale. Consider grading with a "1."

3) If you have a reservation through RCI make sure you rate Wyndham Bonnet Creek with a "1."  If someone calls or writes with questions as to why the low rating make your voice heard loud and clear.

4) Let Wyndham Corporate know how you feel about the action and tell them of your concerns about the "fee" idea spreading throughout the Timeshare industry.

5) Put the word out on every website you can and to everyone who is around you while staying at a Timeshare; especially at a Wyndham timeshare. 

6) If you are at the resort now find a way to communicate the problem to others. Word of mouth makes a difference.


----------



## Ron2

*Owner Maintenance Fees fund the Shuttle*

I sent an email to Carmen Marrow at Bonnet Creek expressing my concerns about the fee for transportation to Disney and this was the reply I received today:

Thank you for your recent inquiry relating to the transportation fee that will be effective at Bonnet Creek. 
As noted in the e-mail announcement you received, all guests who stay at the Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort will be subject to the transportation fee. As transportation from the resort to the local theme parks is a benefit provided by the Homeowner’s Association at the Bonnet Creek resort to all individuals staying at the resort, and those who own at Bonnet Creek or are members of CLUB WYNDHAM Access already pay for the transportation as part of their maintenance fees, the Bonnet Creek Homeowners Association Board, which is an owner controlled Board, decided that it was appropriate to apply this fee to all guests staying at the resort. If a person’s name is on the Bonnet Creek deed, then they will not be subject to the fee.
To assure owners and guests were made aware of the fee prior to arrival, notice of the fee was provided. If a guest with a reservation for an upcoming arrival does not wish to pay the transportation fee, they have the option of cancelling their reservation, without penalty, and receive their points back so they can make a reservation at a different resort location.
We hope the above clarifies your questions and look forward to assisting you in the future.
Carmen Morrow
Administrative Coordinator
Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
Wyndham Vacation Resorts
9560 Via Encinas
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

Even though providing transportation isn’t what I would consider appropriate use of maintenance fees, apparently the Board does.


----------



## MFT

Well, Extra Holidays by Wyndham has the parking fee posted on their website.
http://www.wyndhambonnetcreek.com/faq.html

How can Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort help me plan for my Disney vacation?
The resort offers scheduled transportation to the Disney Theme Parks for a mandatory fee of $12 per day per unit.  Our on-site Disney Planning Center is staffed with Disney Cast Members who can assist you with a full array of Walt Disney World® Tickets, Disney Dining Reservations, and insider tips for visiting the parks.

On their amenities page:
• All guests will incur a mandatory $12 per unit/per day transportation fee that will be collected at   check in. This   includes shuttle to Walt Disney World ® Resort.

One thing that would concern me about this, is as stated above, are "others" using the transportation that are not even staying at the resort?  It sort of seems that way if others were told by people waiting for the bus that they weren't guests, but just using the shuttle...  The idea of the resort providing either wristbands or at least having them show their Wyndham key to get on board would be a good idea.


----------



## massvacationer

I own at three other Wyndham resorts that provide extensive amenities and don't charge owners from other Wyndham resorts any fees.   Why should I need to pay $84 for a bus that I won't use.   This is not big bucks but I think this violates the whole idea and concept of a mini system .


----------



## timeos2

massvacationer said:


> I own at three other Wyndham resorts that provide extensive amenities and don't charge owners from other Wyndham resorts any fees.   Why should I need to pay $84 for a bus that I won't use.   This is not big bucks but I think this violates the whole idea and concept of a mini system .



Amen. Why does anyone think there is any acceptable excuse for this?


----------



## csxjohn

massvacationer said:


> I own at three other Wyndham resorts that provide extensive amenities and don't charge owners from other Wyndham resorts any fees.   Why should I need to pay $84 for a bus that I won't use.   This is not big bucks but I think this violates the whole idea and concept of a mini system .



$84 is big bucks for me for something I was not going to use.

It is enough to keep me away from that resort unless I go with and owner.


----------



## csxjohn

timeos2 said:


> Amen. Why does anyone think there is any acceptable excuse for this?



You are right, this is not acceptable.  If the BC owners think that this isn't going to start a liquid brown storm at other Wyndham resorts they are wrong.

If an amenity is going to be provided above and beyond the normal scope of timesharing I don't think the owners should foot the bill.  But I also don't think the non owners should subsidize the owners either.

Why not just have everyone staying pay a smaller fee or have the users of the amenity pay what it actually costs.

This trend is going to be a lot of trouble for timeshare trading which was supposed to be a main selling point when this all began.  "Hey, you can buy here but you can go here there and everywhere."


----------



## MFT

Went on their Facebook page, and saw this post:

Diane Kleineweber
This is a copy of an email I got and my reply Dear Guest: Thank you for your recent reservation at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. As you may know, the resort provides shuttle transportation to and from Walt Disney World® Resort, seven days a week for all individuals staying at the resort. Effective Friday, Feb. 15, 2013, the Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc. will begin implementing a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee. The fee applies to all reservations, except those made for units to be occupied by deeded owners at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners and CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve owners. Sincerely, Richard Scinta, Resort Manager

But based on the below post, it sounds like Wyndham is at the mercy of the HOA, and are requesting calls to Owner Care so that feedback can be passed onto the HOA.

Maria Johnston
Passing the buck. I'm sure if effects the bottom line it will change. Dear Madam, Thank you for your e-mail. The implementation of the transportation fee that include all our guest arriving on or after February 15th, 2013, excluding the following: Wyndham Bonnet Creek Owners, Club Wyndham Access and Presidential Reserve Owners is a decision made by the Home Owners Association, we understand your concerns however the resort management has no control over the changing the conditions of the implemented fee. If you have any questions related to your ownership please contact Owner Care at 1-800-251-8736. We would be more than happy to provide your feedback to our Home Owners Association and we regret if this affect in any way your stay at our resort. Sincerely Alecia Palmer Guest Services Administrative Assistant Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort


----------



## lcml11

rsphelps said:


> I sent an email to Carmen Marrow at Bonnet Creek expressing my concerns about the fee for transportation to Disney and this was the reply I received today:
> 
> Thank you for your recent inquiry relating to the transportation fee that will be effective at Bonnet Creek.
> As noted in the e-mail announcement you received, all guests who stay at the Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort will be subject to the transportation fee. As transportation from the resort to the local theme parks is a benefit provided by the Homeowner’s Association at the Bonnet Creek resort to all individuals staying at the resort, and those who own at Bonnet Creek or are members of CLUB WYNDHAM Access already pay for the transportation as part of their maintenance fees, the Bonnet Creek Homeowners Association Board, which is an owner controlled Board, decided that it was appropriate to apply this fee to all guests staying at the resort. If a person’s name is on the Bonnet Creek deed, then they will not be subject to the fee.
> To assure owners and guests were made aware of the fee prior to arrival, notice of the fee was provided. If a guest with a reservation for an upcoming arrival does not wish to pay the transportation fee, they have the option of cancelling their reservation, without penalty, and receive their points back so they can make a reservation at a different resort location.
> We hope the above clarifies your questions and look forward to assisting you in the future.
> Carmen Morrow
> Administrative Coordinator
> Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
> Wyndham Vacation Resorts
> 9560 Via Encinas
> Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830
> 
> Even though providing transportation isn’t what I would consider appropriate use of maintenance fees, apparently the Board does.



http://www.corporationwiki.com/Flor...tion-condominium-association-inc-4402849.aspx

Please note that their is a Gary Hyde on the Board of Bonnet Creek and an Officer.  There is or was a Gary Hyde that was a high up in the Wyndham for profit system.  I do not know if it was the same one or not.  Do I believe the statement pertaining to being a owner controlled Board?  I will think about that.  Ops, short thought process.  I do not buy it.


Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc.

Gary Hyde
Director
Vice President

Wyndham Vacation Ownership:  Note, Gary Hyde

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link


----------



## jjmanthei05

MFT said:


> Went on their Facebook page, and saw this post:
> 
> Diane Kleineweber
> This is a copy of an email I got and my reply Dear Guest: Thank you for your recent reservation at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. As you may know, the resort provides shuttle transportation to and from Walt Disney World® Resort, seven days a week for all individuals staying at the resort. Effective Friday, Feb. 15, 2013, the Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc. will begin implementing a $12 per unit/per day transportation fee. The fee applies to all reservations, except those made for units to be occupied by deeded owners at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM Access owners and CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve owners. Sincerely, Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
> 
> But based on the below post, it sounds like Wyndham is at the mercy of the HOA, and are requesting calls to Owner Care so that feedback can be passed onto the HOA.
> 
> Maria Johnston
> Passing the buck. I'm sure if effects the bottom line it will change. Dear Madam, Thank you for your e-mail. The implementation of the transportation fee that include all our guest arriving on or after February 15th, 2013, excluding the following: Wyndham Bonnet Creek Owners, Club Wyndham Access and Presidential Reserve Owners is a decision made by the Home Owners Association, we understand your concerns however the resort management has no control over the changing the conditions of the implemented fee. If you have any questions related to your ownership please contact Owner Care at 1-800-251-8736. We would be more than happy to provide your feedback to our Home Owners Association and we regret if this affect in any way your stay at our resort. Sincerely Alecia Palmer Guest Services Administrative Assistant Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort



If this was done by the HOA then why would PR owners be excluded? As far as I know there isn't part of their MF that is pooled across all PR properties. I get (but don't agree with) excluding the fee who are already paying the HOA but if you have a Non-BC PR owner, what is the HOA getting out of them to exclude the fee? 

Jason


----------



## markb53

jjmanthei05 said:


> If this was done by the HOA then why would PR owners be excluded? As far as I know there isn't part of their MF that is pooled across all PR properties. I get (but don't agree with) excluding the fee who are already paying the HOA but if you have a Non-BC PR owner, what is the HOA getting out of them to exclude the fee?
> 
> Jason



Because I believe PR ownership is similar to CWA ownership in that it is spread across multiple resorts including Bonnet Creek. 

Here is a quote from then Wyndham website for bonnet creek:

Includes Presidential ReserveSM Suites
Includes Inventory in CLUB WYNDHAM® Access


----------



## vacationhopeful

jjmanthei05 said:


> If this was done by the HOA then why would PR owners be excluded? As far as I know there isn't part of their MF that is pooled across all PR properties. I get (but don't agree with) excluding the fee who are already paying the HOA but if you have a Non-BC PR owner, what is the HOA getting out of them to exclude the fee?
> 
> Jason



Oh, Jason, Jason --- the bus/transportation fee is just a ruse. PR and CWA are excluded because these are the BIG sellers these days with the SALES department. Another Sales Point to be made on presentation - avoid non-owner fees when staying at ANY CWA resort. 

As another poster here on TUG has noted, his 1 little old CWA contract now has his MEMBER number identifying him (and his million plus developer brought points) as a CWA owner/member. I wonder HOW long it would take Member Services to cancel his WHOLE ownership if he defaulted on his MFs? There is some legal reason, Wyndham wants to move MORE CWP owners into CWA.


----------



## lcml11

jjmanthei05 said:


> If this was done by the HOA then why would PR owners be excluded? As far as I know there isn't part of their MF that is pooled across all PR properties. I get (but don't agree with) excluding the fee who are already paying the HOA but if you have a Non-BC PR owner, what is the HOA getting out of them to exclude the fee?
> 
> Jason



Do not know, when I was pitched Presidential Reserve, it was for three non-Bonnet Creek deeded locations.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> Oh, Jason, Jason --- the bus/transportation fee is just a ruse. PR and CWA are excluded because these are the BIG sellers these days with the SALES department. Another Sales Point to be made on presentation - avoid non-owner fees when staying at ANY CWA resort.
> 
> As another poster here on TUG has noted, his 1 little old CWA contract now has his MEMBER number identifying him (and his million plus developer brought points) as a CWA owner/member. I wonder HOW long it would take Member Services to cancel his WHOLE ownership if he defaulted on his MFs? There is some legal reason, Wyndham wants to move MORE CWP owners into CWA.



They would have to forclose on the deeded contracts.  However, they could probably freeze usage of the whole account.  If they did that, I could always unpic the two fixed week contracts at Myrtle Beach and pay just thoughs maintance fees and seperate the LLC owned ones from personally owned ones into two accounts and maintain what maintance fees I could.  Westwinds fixed weeks do not have to go through Wyndham to reserve their own week, the Resort prefers notification when the unit will be used, but does not require it.  If a guest shows up, they would need to know that.  However, it is not my intent to default on anything, and hopefully that will not happen.  If I did not unpic the two fixed weeks, the LLC would march on with Gold VIP Status leaving the CWA, Towers on the Grove, the PIC Contract, and a Smokey Mountain contract that I would need to save.  As it relates to the PIC contract, getting at that one would be a tough thing to do, they could unpick it but that is about all if I maintained the maintance fees with the actual Myrtle Beach resort involved.  Worst case, I would have three fixed week Myrtle Beach fixed week contracts that are all on the Ocean.

I share one of your main points that a CWA points contract can be taken back with a total loss of ownership rights apparently without judicial approval prior to it happening on realitively short notice.  That is one of the major reasons I have not taken them up on their kind offers to put various Myrtle Beach and Smokey Mountain points contracts into a new large CWA contract with what they call trade equity.

You point on their being some legal reason for the shift in emphis to CWA is probably reflected on page 46 of the following link.

Vacation Ownership
-	Interval/Points reclaimed
-	Condition of underlying asset maintained by our property management group
-	Asset resold for higher price than original sale

http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/Por...5-02-wyndham-timeshare-presentation-final.pdf

It appears there is a growing priority on reclaiming usage rights of existing owners for re-sale at a higher price.  I guess the PCCs are going to be joined by a hugh competitor.


----------



## bnoble

> They would have to forclose on the deeded contracts.


If I recall correctly, CWA is not deeded.  The deeds are held by the CWA trust, and you buy a fractional ownership in that trust.  No property purchased---no deed.  This gives Wyndham at least two important advantages.  One: because the trust holds the deeds, the trust votes them, not the "owners".  Two: it greatly simplifies the recovery process for non-performing ownerships.


----------



## ronparise

bnoble said:


> If I recall correctly, CWA is not deeded.  The deeds are held by the CWA trust, and you buy a fractional ownership in that trust.  No property purchased---no deed.  This gives Wyndham at least two important advantages.  One: because the trust holds the deeds, the trust votes them, not the "owners".  Two: it greatly simplifies the recovery process for non-performing ownerships.



you are exactly right on this. At the last meeting of the CWA poa, in answer to my question they said that they will cancel a membership after about 3 months of non payment. 

Im not sure how relevant this is to todays discussion but... 

What you may not know is that when CWA takes back (cancels) a membership, Wyndham  is obligated to pay the maintenance fees This means the CWA doesnt carry any (or very little) bad debt when they foreclose. And since CWA is nothing but a collection of deeded weeks and udi deeds from various resorts, and since maintenance fees paid to CWA pass right through to pay the resorts maintenance fees (after a little management skim) ;  the resorts property owners association's cash flow continues in spite of CWA foreclosures

Wyndham will assist the CWA resorts in their foreclosure process to get non preforming deeds back and into CWA....its a win win for all parties, The resorts, the other owners of the resorts, CWA and Wyndham...the only losers are the folks that will pay 20 cents a point for the newly created and recycled CWA points


----------



## massvacationer

csxjohn said:


> You are right, this is not acceptable.  If the BC owners think that this isn't going to start a liquid brown storm at other Wyndham resorts they are wrong.
> 
> If an amenity is going to be provided above and beyond the normal scope of timesharing I don't think the owners should foot the bill.  But I also don't think the non owners should subsidize the owners either.
> 
> Why not just have everyone staying pay a smaller fee or have the users of the amenity pay what it actually costs.
> 
> This trend is going to be a lot of trouble for timeshare trading which was supposed to be a main selling point when this all began.  "Hey, you can buy here but you can go here there and everywhere."



I agree 100%.         I understand that the Bonnet Creek HOA made this decision, so we should complain to them.  

But also, I think it may make sense to complain to the Club Wyndham VOA Trust BOD.  It seems like resorts need to abide by certain rules in order to participate in the whole Club Wyndham System.

I feel like BC is not following the rules and setting a dangerous precedent.   if this policy stands, than owners at other Wyndham Resorts will encourage their HOAs to subsidize maintenance fees through charges to owners at other Wyndham resorts.  It will mess-up the whole system.


----------



## ronparise

massvacationer said:


> I agree 100%.         I understand that the Bonnet Creek HOA made this decision, so we should complain to them.
> 
> But also, I think it may make sense to complain to the Club Wyndham VOA Trust BOD.  It seems like resorts need to abide by certain rules in order to participate in the whole Club Wyndham System.
> 
> I feel like BC is not following the rules and setting a dangerous precedent.   if this policy stands, than owners at other Wyndham Resorts will encourage their HOAs to subsidize maintenance fees through charges to owners at other Wyndham resorts.  It will mess-up the whole system.



I agree. This could be just the precident setting first step to all the resorts charging an ammenities fee of some sort. 

If I can get the floor at the upcoming meeting (May 16 I think) Ill propose removing Bonnet Creek from the Fairshare Trust


----------



## Pietin

ronparise said:


> I agree. This could be just the precident setting first step to all the resorts charging an ammenities fee of some sort.
> 
> If I can get the floor at the upcoming meeting (May 16 I think) Ill propose removing Bonnet Creek from the Fairshare Trust



Bold move!   

Good luck Ron!


----------



## massvacationer

ronparise said:


> I agree. This could be just the precident setting first step to all the resorts charging an ammenities fee of some sort.
> 
> If I can get the floor at the upcoming meeting (May 16 I think) Ill propose removing Bonnet Creek from the Fairshare Trust



Excellent !!!!    If folks make enough noise and raise a big enough stink, they may very well change the foolish policy


----------



## Rent_Share

300 Posts in this thread were not enough ?

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186330

:deadhorse:


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## bnoble

> 300 Posts in this thread were not enough ?


Hell hath no fury like a TUGger charged a fee.


----------



## CO skier

*"No Taxation without representation!"*


----------



## Ginger's Mom

*Abusive!*

Hi!
I am new to the group but not Wyn Timeshare.

I find this HOA fee abusive and WILL be emailing to express my sentiments. 

1)  Some of us live in FL and have a FL Resident Disney pass that gives us free parking in the Kingdom.  Why on earth would we need to pay for the shuttle? 

2) The limited service is no where near the quality of the Disney system, yet they are charging premium fees.  

3)  Some of us go to BC just to relax and take day trips, like to Daytona and Mount Dora.  We have no need for the shuttle.

I believe this shuttle should should be financed by "user" fees.  Why punish ALL of us when only some of us use it?  

As usual, I am sure I am  when it comes to anything Wyndham!

Anne in SE FL


----------



## ronparise

this was posted on the Wyndham owners forum


According to the front desk at Bonnet Creek collecting the transportation fee is being delayed until at least March 1. Hopefully they are evaluating and will come up with a different plan. We should all keep the pressure on them with emails and calls!


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> this was posted on the Wyndham owners forum
> 
> 
> According to the front desk at Bonnet Creek collecting the transportation fee is being delayed until at least March 1. Hopefully they are evaluating and will come up with a different plan. We should all keep the pressure on them with emails and calls!



I am impressed.  Wyndham must be monitoring this thread and saw that you were thinking of showing up at the POA meeting and try and speak.  Good job.

The front desk advises that they are currently making changes and the earliest it will go into effect will be March 1st.


----------



## bnoble

I think it is a lot more likely that they haven't yet figured out how to get the front desk systems (that never needed to know who owned what where) connected to the information in the parking-pass body-snatcher systems that actually knows who owns what and how they got there.


----------



## am1

What incentive does the HOA have in getting rid of this fee?

People not wanting to pay the fee will stay at other resort and inventory at Bonnet Creek will be better.  Any fees collected will improve the resort or lower mfs.  The resale value of bonnet creek timeshares will increase.  If you are at Bonnet Creek owner what does the reviews on Trip Advisor or RCI matter.  

I am against this fee and hope that it does not spread.  Maybe my resorts should impose fees only on Bonnet Creek owners.


----------



## ronparise

bnoble said:


> I think it is a lot more likely that they haven't yet figured out how to get the front desk systems (that never needed to know who owned what where) connected to the information in the parking-pass body-snatcher systems that actually knows who owns what and how they got there.




Thats probably right...I mean who carries a copy of their deed with them on vacation...But the optimist in me wants to believe that they are rethinking this "everyone pays, except us owners" approach in favor of a user fee.   We'll see


----------



## csxjohn

ronparise said:


> ...I mean who carries a copy of their deed with them on vacation...



I do.

I carry a copy on my computer because if I come across someone at the pool or elsewhere or get an inquiry about one of my units by email, I am ready to make a transaction.

I know that doesn't relate to the problem of the front desk trying to know who owns what, but if I was ever told, hey, you're not an owner here, I've got my deed in a few moments.


----------



## bdmauk

*Glad I'm a tugger*

Well, that makes my decision easy. I'll be voting with my feet this fall. We're not Wyndham owners and loved our stay at Bonnet Creek last year. However, we don't even visit the Mouse. Our Orlando vacation typically includes Sea World, Universal, water parks, and day trips to Cocoa or Daytona.  No need in paying extra for a service we definitely won't use. 
Hello Vistana!


----------



## vacationhopeful

Got a nice postcard in the mail yesterday regarding a Wyndham Points reservation I had made for late March.

The purpose was to tell me ALL about the bus service to Disney (it existed) and how I was going to only have to pay (mandatory) $12 per day. And if I didn't want to pay that, I could cancel my reservation.

And I wonder HOW much those postcard mailings will cost the HOA? No mention as to HOW much revenue Wyndham will get from all those RTs fees people will incur to rebook their magical trip to WDW. 

And Corporate Wyndham wins more $$$ again - mailing out postcards and RTs. And all the rentals resrvations made thru them with no $84 "transportation fee".


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> Got a nice postcard in the mail yesterday regarding a Wyndham Points reservation I had made for late March.
> 
> The prupose was to tell me ALL about the bus service to Disney (it existed) and how I was going to only have to pay (mandatory) $12 per day. And if I didn't want to pay that, I could cancel my reservation.
> 
> And I wonder HOW much those postcard mailings will cost the HOA? No mention as to HOW much revenue Wyndham will get from all those RTs fees people will incur to rebook their magical trip to WDW.
> 
> And Corporate Wyndham wins more $$$ again - mailing out postcards and RTs. And all the rentals resrvations made thru them with no $84 "transportation fee".



My guess if they let someone out of the reservation, they will refund the reservation transaction to.  Last heard, implementation has been delayed until March 1st.  So it may or may not happen then.  First date I believe was February 1st, next date February 15th, now March 1st - at least.


----------



## jjmanthei05

So I guess complaining worked??? I just got this letter. 

_* Dear Guest:

As a result of recent feedback, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners Association has reversed the recently communicated $12 per unit / per day transportation fee at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. Beginning March 1, 2013, transportation fees will only be applied to individuals who use the Walt Disney World® Resort shuttles at the resort.

We remain committed to delivering exceptional Count On Me! service and creating vacation memories for you and your family and friends. 

Thank you for your continued feedback and ongoing support.  We look forward to your stay at the Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort.

Sincerely,
Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
*_


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## am1

Yes.  I am sure the bus service will be cancelled in the near future.


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## jjmanthei05

am1 said:


> Yes.  I am sure the bus service will be cancelled in the near future.



Nah. They still charge hotel guests and they don't have a choice. There is a $16 "resort fee" fee per day. 

Jason


----------



## lcml11

Congratulations to all of the complainers of the world.  It looks like it still works.  I still think Ron saying he was going to try and speak at the POA meeting is what tiped the balance.

I guess this means Wyndham Bonnet Creek is back off the S list.


----------



## antjmar

jjmanthei05 said:


> So I guess complaining worked??? I just got this letter.
> 
> _* Dear Guest:
> 
> As a result of recent feedback, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners Association has reversed the recently communicated $12 per unit / per day transportation fee at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. Beginning March 1, 2013, transportation fees will only be applied to individuals who use the Walt Disney World® Resort shuttles at the resort.
> 
> We remain committed to delivering exceptional Count On Me! service and creating vacation memories for you and your family and friends.
> 
> Thank you for your continued feedback and ongoing support.  We look forward to your stay at the Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
> Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort
> *_


 you guys did it!
If I use it ill gladly pay the fee!


----------



## siesta

Squeeky wheel gets the grease!!! I like to think tuggers made the difference, to all who complained and actually sent those complaints to the proper channels, pat yourself on the back. To those that said oh well, vote with your feet, sh*t happens,resistance is futile, etc.... get a clue and realize people like you never get anything done or contribute in any way with a defeated attitude such as that.


----------



## rickandcindy23

So glad they reversed the mandatory fee and decided to charge only those who use the shuttles a fee.


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## timeos2

It is the only sensible way to charge IF they have to charge at all. Heck, they could have said $1/day & the true costs would have been covered, few if any complaints, but they got greedy, got caught and now have to back down.  You can be fairly sure that once people have to pay for that lousy service it will be dropped or greatly improved (at even higher cost). The Disney transport is free (even to non-guests) and we still don't want to deal with it.  A waste of time and very inconvenient. Yet it is head & shoulders better than the (now) paid Wyndham shuttle. 

In any case it's good they responded to the complaints in a positive way.


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## Sandy VDH

Are they really Walt Disney World run and branded Shuttles.  I have never used them.  The last time I even looked into them was when there were only 2 building at BC and the shuttle was a van.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Sandy VDH said:


> Are they really Walt Disney World run and branded Shuttles.  I have never used them.  The last time I even looked into them was when there were only 2 building at BC and the shuttle was a van.



No --- they are NOT WDW. They are a private bus and it goes to the Transportation Center and a slot number in a vast sea of pavement. The bus stop is in the middle of a 6 football field size of pavement. No shade or rain protection; no standard to locate; just a stencil white painted number for the bus slot. There might be another one that goes to Downtown Disney -- but I had no desire to figure that out.

At Bonnet Creek, the 2 stops had shelters and a couple of benches outside building 6 and building 2 -- I believe.


----------



## Cheryl20772

antjmar said:


> you guys did it!
> If I use it ill gladly pay the fee!


I'd hold on before high fiving this one. 





> transportation fees will only be applied to individuals who use the Walt Disney World® Resort shuttles at the resort



Does that mean a family of 5 now has to pay $60 per day to use the shuttle instead of $12 per unit per day? This might not be an improvement for those who will want to use the shuttle.


----------



## JimMIA

siesta said:


> Squeeky wheel gets the grease!!! I like to think tuggers made the difference, to all who complained and actually sent those complaints to the proper channels, pat yourself on the back. To those that said oh well, vote with your feet, sh*t happens,resistance is futile, etc.... get a clue and realize people like you never get anything done or contribute in any way with a defeated attitude such as that.


This forum needs a "Like" button!  Well said.


----------



## Rent_Share

Does it also mean that Bonnet Creek and CWA owners who were previously exempt will now pay if they want to use the shuttle ?



> *As a result of recent feedback, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners Association has reversed the recently communicated $12 per unit / per day transportation fee at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. Beginning March 1, 2013, transportation fees will only be applied to individuals who use the Walt Disney World® Resort shuttles at the resort.*


----------



## JimMIA

Sandy VDH said:


> Are they really Walt Disney World run and branded Shuttles.


No, they're Wyndham buses (contracted).  I think they just have to use that copyrighted terminology when referring to anything involving the Mouse.  I think they'd run afoul of the law if they just said "Disney World."


----------



## JimMIA

Rent_Share said:


> Does it also mean that Bonnet Creek and CWA owners who were previously exempt will now pay if they want to use the shuttle ?


I would bet my paycheck they haven't thought that far ahead! :hysterical:

Personally, if they exempted those who have an ownership interest at WBC, that would be reasonable to me.  They're already paying at least part of the shuttle expense (probably the majority) via their MFs now.  I'm fine with them getting a "free ride."


----------



## rickandcindy23

What about RCI exchanges?  They might keep that fee intact, because they can eke money out of that bunch of grateful people to get Bonnet Creek. That is, if the TPU's weren't so high.  

Last October, we got two weeks, 10 TPU each, 2 bedrooms through RCI.  The same thing will be over twice that, when the time comes.  Why?


----------



## JimMIA

vacationhopeful said:


> No --- they are NOT WDW. They are a private bus and it goes to the Transportation Center and a slot number in a vast sea of pavement. The bus stop is in the middle of a 6 football field size of pavement. No shade or rain protection; no standard to locate; just a stencil white painted number for the bus slot. There might be another one that goes to Downtown Disney -- but I had no desire to figure that out.
> 
> At Bonnet Creek, the 2 stops had shelters and a couple of benches outside building 6 and building 2 -- I believe.


Haven't ridden them, but I think they have three different shuttles:
One that goes to Epcot and then the MK TTC as you indicated
One that goes to Disney Hollywood Studios and then Animal Kingdom
And a third that goes to Downtown Disney


----------



## JimMIA

Let's start a pool.  How long do you think (in minutes and/or seconds) it will take for the sales weasels at WBC to offer an *"exemption"* to the shuttle fee as the incentive for taking a friendly, low-pressure tour?

It's perfect.  Costs them *zero*, and might be a good enticement!


----------



## DancingWaters

*shuttle*

Oops, I guess I blew it. I just bought aa Bonnet Creek this week on eBay because that shuttle fee upset me.    Guess, I jumped too fast


----------



## Ginger's Mom

I don't think you can go wrong owning at BC because of ARP.  You may want to go there during the holidays one year.


----------



## JimMIA

DancingWaters said:


> Oops, I guess I blew it. I just bought aa Bonnet Creek this week on eBay because that shuttle fee upset me.    Guess, I jumped too fast


Florida has a 10-day recision period, if you think you made a mistake.


----------



## CO skier

JimMIA said:


> Florida has a 10-day recision period, if you think you made a mistake.



... not if it is an EBay re-sale.


----------



## Goofyhobbie

As we already know Tuggers are way ahead of the game because they frequent the TUG Forums and stay up to date.

Thanks for the heads up regarding the change in the policy regarding the Transportation Fees.


----------



## DancingWaters

*bc*

It was an eBay resale. I was at BC in January for the first time and did fall in love with the resort, so I am sure I will enjoy it and maybe?.....not have to pay the shuttle fee.  These time shares are addicting


----------



## jjmanthei05

DancingWaters said:


> ... These time shares are addicting



Not at all. I started with a 189k resale and now I own 2.5 million points resale with VIP benefits. 

Jason


----------



## timeos2

DancingWaters said:


> It was an eBay resale. I was at BC in January for the first time and did fall in love with the resort, so I am sure I will enjoy it and maybe?.....not have to pay the shuttle fee.  These time shares are addicting



If you had to pay or not one time on that "service" and you would promise yourself you'd never make that mistake again.  It is frustrating to use and can ruin an otherwise enjoyable day.


----------



## ronparise

jjmanthei05 said:


> Not at all. I started with a 189k resale and now I own 2.5 million points resale with VIP benefits.
> 
> Jason



come on Jason we are late for the meeting


----------



## csxjohn

JimMIA said:


> Florida has a 10-day recision period, if you think you made a mistake.



They bought on eBay, not from the sales team at BC.  They will not have a rescission period but, on eBay, real estate sales are non-binding.  Much has been talked about that here.


----------



## lcml11

csxjohn said:


> They bought on eBay, not from the sales team at BC.  They will not have a rescission period but, on eBay, real estate sales are non-binding.  Much has been talked about that here.



I did not check, however, you might want to.  If I remember, for resorts that are located in Flordia, I thought there was a new law that changed the rules of the game for re-sale units.

Update:  

http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/lsc/LSCMHTimeshareFAQResales.html

1. I want to sell my timeshare week that I own at a resort located in Florida.  Does Florida law apply to the manner in which I sell it?

 Yes.  Florida law requires that sellers use a resale purchase agreement that complies with the requirements of section 721.065, F.S. That section requires that resale agreements contain certain disclosures to the buyer concerning the current amount of annual assessments, property taxes, delinquent assessments, and late charges (if any), the first year in which the purchaser may use the timeshare, as well as a 10-day contract cancellation period. Failure to include the required language in the resale contract automatically makes the contract voidable at the option of the purchaser for a period of one year after the date of closing.  

Cite: Section 721.065, F.S.

Maybe the site owner may not have it right.  If there is a problem with the way the contract was written and the provision was not there, maybe asking the appropriate agency to review the contract in question would be in order.

If there was a oversite by the seller on putting the language into the re-sale contract, maybe getting ahold of the seller would set the situation correct by providing the seller the link.


----------



## ronparise

csxjohn said:


> They bought on eBay, not from the sales team at BC.  They will not have a rescission period but, on eBay, real estate sales are non-binding.  Much has been talked about that here.





csxjohn said:


> They bought on eBay, not from the sales team at BC.  They will not have a rescission period but, on eBay, real estate sales are non-binding.  Much has been talked about that here.



Florida timeshare sales, including sales on the secondary market get a 10 day rescision period


----------



## Rent_Share

ronparise said:


> Florida timeshare sales, including sales on the secondary market get a 10 day rescission period


 
One of the reasons eBay's real estate auctions are non binding, since eBay's normal goods binding auction policy would be contradictory to this portion of Florida Law.


----------



## csxjohn

lcml11 said:


> I did not check, however, you might want to.  If I remember, for resorts that are located in Flordia, I thought there was a new law that changed the rules of the game for re-sale units.
> 
> Update:
> 
> http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/lsc/LSCMHTimeshareFAQResales.html
> 
> 1. I want to sell my timeshare week that I own at a resort located in Florida.  Does Florida law apply to the manner in which I sell it?
> 
> Yes.  Florida law requires that sellers use a resale purchase agreement that complies with the requirements of section 721.065, F.S. That section requires that resale agreements contain certain disclosures to the buyer concerning the current amount of annual assessments, property taxes, delinquent assessments, and late charges (if any), the first year in which the purchaser may use the timeshare, as well as a 10-day contract cancellation period. Failure to include the required language in the resale contract automatically makes the contract voidable at the option of the purchaser for a period of one year after the date of closing.
> 
> Cite: Section 721.065, F.S.
> 
> Maybe the site owner may not have it right.  If there is a problem with the way the contract was written and the provision was not there, maybe asking the appropriate agency to review the contract in question would be in order.
> 
> If there was a oversite by the seller on putting the language into the re-sale contract, maybe getting ahold of the seller would set the situation correct by providing the seller the link.





ronparise said:


> Florida timeshare sales, including sales on the secondary market get a 10 day rescision period



This is good stuff, thank you both for bringing it to my attention.  I just sold one and bought one in Florida.  The 10 day rescission period is not mentioned in either purchase  agreement.  All the other stuff is in there but not the 10 days.

It looks like my buyer has a year to change her mind now. I won't be changing my mind, I love where I bought but it appears that option will be there if I need it.

This would probably make a good point for a sticky in the buying, selling, trading forum.


----------



## csxjohn

Rent_Share said:


> One of the reasons eBay's real estate auctions are non binding, since eBay's normal goods binding auction policy would be contradictory to this portion of Florida Law.



Yes, this is the stated reason on eBay.  Every state is different in regards to real estate law so those auctions are non binding.


----------



## csxjohn

Does anyone know when this new law took effect in Fla?  

I think it's great that Fla is staying on top of TS sales.  I just wish I had put the 10 days in the purchase agreement when I sold.


----------



## lcml11

csxjohn said:


> Does anyone know when this new law took effect in Fla?
> 
> I think it's great that Fla is staying on top of TS sales.  I just wish I had put the 10 days in the purchase agreement when I sold.



It looks like July 1, 2012.

http://technorati.com/business/advertising/article/florida-passes-timeshare-law-to-protect/

Other than your buyer may have a year to change their mind, the area of potiential concern is if you are a resale advertiser under the laws of Flordia.  If you do not rent or sell seven or more intervals per year, you should be OK.

"4. Any timeshare resale advertiser which violates the law's provisions can be hit with a penalty which may not exceed $15,000 per violation under the Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act."

If the issue comes up with your buyer, I would offer what appears to be full remedy immediately.  Offer to take the unit back and pay the associated fees and closing costs.


----------



## lcml11

lcml11 said:


> It looks like July 1, 2012.
> 
> http://technorati.com/business/advertising/article/florida-passes-timeshare-law-to-protect/
> 
> Other than your buyer may have a year to change their mind, the area of potiential concern is if you are a resale advertiser under the laws of Flordia.  If you do not rent or sell seven or more intervals per year, you should be OK.
> 
> "4. Any timeshare resale advertiser which violates the law's provisions can be hit with a penalty which may not exceed $15,000 per violation under the Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act."
> 
> If the issue comes up with your buyer, I would offer what appears to be full remedy immediately.  Offer to take the unit back and pay the associated fees and closing costs.



If you used someone who did the re-sale contract for you or provided the template for it, you might want to post the name of the group that did not have the provision in the sales agreement as a word of caution to others.


----------



## csxjohn

lcml11 said:


> If you used someone who did the re-sale contract for you or provided the template for it, you might want to post the name of the group that did not have the provision in the sales agreement as a word of caution to others.



Because I did not know the buyer, it was a reply to an eBay classified ad, I had a purchase agreement then used a service to type the deed and do the footwork to the county and the resort.

I'm not in the category of doing seven per year so the rest of that law won't apply.  

I do own another Fla unit and am in the process of a deed transfer to obtain another in Fla.

You'd think with all the dumb stuff going on I'd stay away from TS ownership but I found out last summer that the only way to be assured of a summer week on the Atlantic is to buy one.

Just wondering if any other states require a waiting period on re-sales?


----------



## lcml11

csxjohn said:


> Because I did not know the buyer, it was a reply to an eBay classified ad, I had a purchase agreement then used a service to type the deed and do the footwork to the county and the resort.
> 
> I'm not in the category of doing seven per year so the rest of that law won't apply.
> 
> I do own another Fla unit and am in the process of a deed transfer to obtain another in Fla.
> 
> You'd think with all the dumb stuff going on I'd stay away from TS ownership but I found out last summer that the only way to be assured of a summer week on the Atlantic is to buy one.
> 
> Just wondering if any other states require a waiting period on re-sales?



Not that I am aware of, but maybe.


----------



## ronparise

Posted on the Wyndham owners forum

_Just called the Bonnet Creek front desk and the young lady shared her understanding of the Feb 15th policy as per below:

She said that each shuttle rider would now pay $5 per day round trip to ride the shuttle. I asked if this means that a family of 10 would now pay $50 per day to use the shuttle rather than the previous $12 per day per condo whether or not they rode the shuttle.
She agreed.
I then asked if that meant that that same family could pay a total of $350 for using the shuttle for 7 days rather than the previously proposed $72 a week per condo per week whether or not they rode the shuttle.
She agreed._


----------



## DancingWaters

*shuttle*

Wow, that hopeful improvement went backwards. Did you happen to ask if BC owners were exempt from this fee and they ride free?  I am the tugger who just purchased a BC resale because of the initial shuttle fee.


----------



## csxjohn

ronparise said:


> Posted on the Wyndham owners forum
> 
> _Just called the Bonnet Creek front desk and the young lady shared her understanding of the Feb 15th policy as per below:
> 
> She said that each shuttle rider would now pay $5 per day round trip to ride the shuttle. I asked if this means that a family of 10 would now pay $50 per day to use the shuttle rather than the previous $12 per day per condo whether or not they rode the shuttle.
> She agreed.
> I then asked if that meant that that same family could pay a total of $350 for using the shuttle for 7 days rather than the previously proposed $72 a week per condo per week whether or not they rode the shuttle.
> She agreed._



I don't see anything wrong with this.  

If you use it, pay for it.  It's an amenity above and beyond the normal timeshare services.  

I should not have to pay $72 a week for something I don't use to subsidize a family of 10 using the shuttle.


----------



## DeniseM

I agree - those who use it should pay for it, otherwise it raises the MF for all owners.  We are going to Bonnet Creek in the spring, and I will be happy to pay this fee - it's still far cheaper than a cab or car rental.  

BTW - If you are taking 10 people to Disneyworld, a $5 per person shuttle fee is going to be the least of your financial problems!


----------



## lcml11

DeniseM said:


> I agree - those who use it should pay for it, otherwise it raises the MF for all owners.  We are going to Bonnet Creek in the spring, and I will be happy to pay this fee - it's still far cheaper than a cab or car rental.
> 
> BTW - If you are taking 10 people to Disneyworld, a $5 per person shuttle fee is going to be the least of your financial problems!



If it is a party of 10, just rent a car.


----------



## geekette

lcml11 said:


> If it is a party of 10, just rent a car.



or 2.                                            

[message too short]


----------



## DeniseM

lcml11 said:


> If it is a party of 10, just rent a car.



I think you missed the point - compared to the other costs of taking 10 people to Disneyworld, a $5 per day fee is a drop in the bucket!  If you can't afford the $5 per person, you probably can't afford the trip at all!


----------



## BocaBum99

csxjohn said:


> They bought on eBay, not from the sales team at BC.  They will not have a rescission period but, on eBay, real estate sales are non-binding.  Much has been talked about that here.



Bonnet Creek is a Florida timeshare resort and all sales whether developer or resale are governed by Florida Statutes.

In Florida, ALL timeshare sales are subject to an irrevocable 10-day right of rescission period.   This does include resales.  It doesn't matter if it were on or off eBay.  

In addition, all real estate contracts are subject to the Statute of Frauds meaning that there is no binding agreement unless there is a written agreement signed by competent parties.  eBay is merely a vehicle for bringing buyers and sellers to the table.  Nothing is binding until there is a signed purchase agreement that has aged past the 10 day right of rescission.


----------



## BocaBum99

What this transportation fee should tell owners is that there are limits to what the developer can do.  They clearly wanted this fee to happen.  But, under extreme pressure from a continuous flow of unhappy guests, they caved and eliminated the fee.


----------



## ronparise

DancingWaters said:


> Wow, that hopeful improvement went backwards. Did you happen to ask if BC owners were exempt from this fee and they ride free?  I am the tugger who just purchased a BC resale because of the initial shuttle fee.



It wasnt my post I just copied it from the Wyndham owners forum...so no I didnt ask


----------



## massvacationer

csxjohn said:


> I don't see anything wrong with this.
> 
> If you use it, pay for it.  It's an amenity above and beyond the normal timeshare services.
> 
> I should not have to pay $72 a week for something I don't use to subsidize a family of 10 using the shuttle.



I also agree.  As I said in other posts, this really smelled like a scheme to get owners at other Wyndham resorts to subsidize the maintenance fees at BC.  I was hoping this would get shot-down, as it would have set a very bad precedent.


----------



## Ginger's Mom

When there is policy change with ANYTHING to do with Wyn--it is a scheme.  Remember when they took away our ability to transfer points among ourselves--"for our own well-being" (some BS about security)?????

Then they started changing the VIP program--because it was a program and COULD be changed?

And now they are selling CWA and the Presidential level as a way to eclipse VIP and sell more points.

IMHO, with Wyn, it is ALWAYS about money.

Anne in SE FL


----------



## vacationhopeful

Ginger's Mom said:


> IMHO, with Wyn, it is ALWAYS about money.
> 
> Anne in SE FL



Anne,
 You have it right -- just tweeking it a little ... It is always "about putting OUR MONEY in THEIR bank accounts" now using mainly smoke and mirrors.

And they have figured out WHY build more resorts, when we can lease them or get FREE weeks from the HOAs by having our employees stacked on their HOA boards.

No, you can sell a mud week Colorado or a Jan week in Myrtle Beach, but you can put the fixed week deeds and MFs into CWA, and label it as ARP in Myrtle Beach or at a ski resort without no new bricks and mortor costs ... all done with SMOKE and MIRRORs.


----------



## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> Anne,
> You have it right -- just tweeking it a little ... It is always "about putting OUR MONEY in THEIR bank accounts" now using mainly smoke and mirrors.
> 
> And they have figured out WHY build more resorts, when we can lease them or get FREE weeks from the HOAs by having our employees stacked on their HOA boards.
> 
> No, you can sell a mud week Colorado or a Jan week in Myrtle Beach, but you can put the fixed week deeds and MFs into CWA, and label it as ARP in Myrtle Beach or at a ski resort without no new bricks and mortor costs ... all done with SMOKE and MIRRORs.



Linda ...did you mean _cant sell_

I wouldnt be so quick to condemn this practice. They may only be working with foreclosures now, but that provides an outlet for the resorts and will serve to keep bad debt at the resorts down and as a result, our maintenance fees...When Wyndhan puts something in CWA they also take on the responsibility to pay the maintenance fees.   

In the future we may look back and say..."you know, that was the beginning of Wyndham creating a secondary market and the beginning of the turn around in the price of "used" Wyndham timeshares..


That Wyndham can take something worthless and turn it into something of value. Is I think a good thing...that they are able to make money doing it , is a 'who cares'.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Linda ...did you mean _cant sell_
> 
> I wouldnt be so quick to condemn this practice. They may only be working with foreclosures now, but that provides an outlet for the resorts and will serve to keep bad debt at the resorts down and as a result, our maintenance fees...When Wyndhan puts something in CWA they also take on the responsibility to pay the maintenance fees.
> 
> In the future we may look back and say..."you know, that was the beginning of Wyndham creating a secondary market and the beginning of the turn around in the price of "used" Wyndham timeshares..
> 
> 
> That Wyndham can take something worthless and turn it into something of value. Is I think a good thing...that they are able to make money doing it , is a 'who cares'.



I would not knock Myrtle Beach or Access on picking up timeshares by Wyndham or anyone else.  It consistently draws bids on E-Bay with limited availability given the number of units under the Wyndham banner there.

Owners of the various resorts, no dought, benifit from the adding of available pre-owned units into Access.  As noted, it would help with default rates and make the remaining units available on the re-sale market more valuable over time.

As far as that week in January for Myrtle Beach, going to Access, as far as I know, does not give it ARP rights into the Summer months.


----------



## andymc01

I just got this email from the Bonnet Creek Home owners Association:

_Dear Owner:

As a result of recent feedback, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners Association has reversed the recently communicated $12 per unit / per day transportation fee for guests staying at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. Beginning March 1, 2013, transportation fees will only be applied to individuals who use the Walt Disney World® Resort shuttles at the resort.

We remain committed to delivering exceptional Count On Me! service and creating vacation memories for you and your family and friends.

Thank you for your continued feedback and ongoing support.  We look forward to helping you get on your next vacation.

Sincerely,
Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
On behalf of the Board of Directors of
Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc._

It looks like the feedback was heard.  Glad to see the change.

Andy


----------



## Don40

I guess we the owners do have some control if we stick together.  I am sure threatening to give low ratings rang a bell.


----------



## lcml11

Interesting, I just got the e-mail from the resort director on the parking fee.  I am not a owner at Bonnet Creek, however, I do own a access contract.


----------



## scootr5

Of course, now the word from another board is that they are going to charge a fee of $5 per person round trip to use the shuttle (with kids under 3 free). 

A family of four going to the park in the morning and then again in the evening will now pay $40. IIRC, it's $14 to park your car at Disney, and you can use the receipt at any park all day.


----------



## lcml11

scootr5 said:


> Of course, now the word from another board is that they are going to charge a fee of $5 per person round trip to use the shuttle (with kids under 3 free).
> 
> A family of four going to the park in the morning and then again in the evening will now pay $40. IIRC, it's $14 to park your car at Disney, and you can use the receipt at any park all day.




Dear Owner:
 ;
As a result of recent feedback, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners Association has reversed the recently communicated $12 per unit / per day transportation fee for guests staying at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. Beginning March 1, 2013, transportation fees will only be applied to individuals who use the Walt Disney World®; Resort shuttles at the resort. 
 ;
We remain committed to delivering exceptional Count On Me! service and creating vacation memories for you and your family and friends. 
 ;
Thank you for your continued feedback and ongoing support.  We look forward to helping you get on your next vacation.
 ;
Sincerely,
Richard Scinta, Resort Manager
On behalf of the Board of Directors of
Bonnet Creek Resort Vacation Condominium Association, Inc.



6277 Sea Harbor Drive, Orlando, FL 32821:rofl:

Trying to run down why I got the E-Mail.  Called the resort, they claim they have no way of telling who is a owner and who is not.  They say the fee is going to be applied to all owners both Club Wyndham Plus and Club Wyndham Access.  They say this is the most recent change.  Please note:  The only dollar amount for the fee in question on this E-Mail is $12 and they are now saying it is per room for each day the shuttle is used  a specific dollar amount was not discusssed.  Round and Round it goes where it stops nobody knows.

Called the title insurance company for the Access contract, my contract has no specific resort that is backing it up.  The insurance company has insured that I will get my 86,000 Club Wyndham Access points on an annual basis.  I apparently got the E-Mail because I was a Club Wyndham Access owner or in the alternative, they sent it to everyone that is a member of the POA.

Very interesting.


----------



## Pietin

If it cost less to park at the parks, more people will do that.  More traffic going to the park will mean longer wait in traffic.  Which means more pollution.  Didn't Bonnet Creek just receive a award for being "green"?  This is a very "green" fee.


----------



## Bourne

Pietin said:


> Didn't Bonnet Creek just receive a award for being "green"?  This is a very "green" fee.



They are focussing on the other "green(backs)".


----------



## lcml11

scootr5 said:


> Of course, now the word from another board is that they are going to charge a fee of $5 per person round trip to use the shuttle (with kids under 3 free).
> 
> A family of four going to the park in the morning and then again in the evening will now pay $40. IIRC, it's $14 to park your car at Disney, and you can use the receipt at any park all day.



Just got off the phone with the Resort Manager.  He did not agree with what his front desk advised this morning relating to the per room charge for use per day.  He said it is $5 per round trip per person.  

He also indicated that the Resort has no way to tell who is an owner at Bonnet Creek.  I find it very hard to believe that the Resort does not know who their owners are, but that is the company line.


----------



## csxjohn

DancingWaters said:


> Wow, that hopeful improvement went backwards. ...





DeniseM said:


> I agree - those who use it should pay for it, otherwise it raises the MF for all owners.  We are going to Bonnet Creek in the spring, and I will be happy to pay this fee -...



This change is not a step back wards!

Denise is right, those who use this service should pay for it.

This is not an amenity like a pool or hot tub that you normally find at a timeshare resort.  This is above and beyond and if you want to use it , pay for it.  Don't expect those who will never use it to subsidize the use.

BC can't seem to win on this one.  

If you stay at the Wyndham in Nashville and want transportation into town, you must pay a limo service or hire a cab.

At least here the shuttles are reasonably priced and already on the property.


----------



## lcml11

csxjohn said:


> This change is not a step back wards!
> 
> Denise is right, those who use this service should pay for it.
> 
> This is not an amenity like a pool or hot tub that you normally find at a timeshare resort.  This is above and beyond and if you want to use it , pay for it.  Don't expect those who will never use it to subsidize the use.
> 
> BC can't seem to win on this one.
> 
> If you stay at the Wyndham in Nashville and want transportation into town, you must pay a limo service or hire a cab.
> 
> At least here the shuttles are reasonably priced and already on the property.



I would tend to think that there is a difference between a limo or cab and what is basically a small bus.  $5 dollars per person round trip for what amounts to a bus service for a couple mile trip sounds like predatory pricing to me.  For a small group, call the taxi, it might be cheaper.  For what it is worth, Wyndham Corporate actually suggested that as an option.  If everyone did this, this could actually end up being more expensive for someone other than owners and guests.  Someone has to pay for the vehicles and drivers.  If the owners do not and the guests do not.  Oh, well.


----------



## C30NY

So is this an actual Walt Disney World owned shuttle, or a Wyndham owned shuttle transporting you?

What about us DisneyWorld AP owners, who have Disney transportation free due to AP ownership?  How will they know who to charge or not charge in that case?


----------



## ronparise

C30NY said:


> So is this an actual Walt Disney World owned shuttle, or a Wyndham owned shuttle transporting you?
> 
> What about us DisneyWorld AP owners, who have Disney transportation free due to AP ownership?  How will they know who to charge or not charge in that case?



I know its not a Disney shuttle, and I dont think its Wyndham owned. The Bonnet creek Resort contracts for it (Im pretty sure)


----------



## csxjohn

lcml11 said:


> I would tend to think that there is a difference between a limo or cab and what is basically a small bus.  $5 dollars per person round trip for what amounts to a bus service for a couple mile trip sounds like predatory pricing to me.  For a small group, call the taxi, it might be cheaper.  For what it is worth, Wyndham Corporate actually suggested that as an option.  If everyone did this, this could actually end up being more expensive for someone other than owners and guests.  Someone has to pay for the vehicles and drivers.  If the owners do not and the guests do not.  Oh, well.



$2.50 for a ride from a resort to anywhere is cheap.  As Denise pointed out, if someone can't afford $5 for a round trip ride to the park they are in over their heads  when they go to pay for anything in the park including tickets.

The last time I was there, a small bottle of water cost $5. In relation to that I'd say the shuttle fee is a bargain.

I'm sure that if a taxi costs less from BC to Disney, people will be doing that.  The main thing is, those not wanting transportation to the park won't be paying for someone else who does.


----------



## geekette

csxjohn said:


> $2.50 for a ride from a resort to anywhere is cheap.  As Denise pointed out, if someone can't afford $5 for a round trip ride to the park they are in over their heads  when they go to pay for anything in the park including tickets.
> 
> The last time I was there, a small bottle of water cost $5. In relation to that I'd say the shuttle fee is a bargain.
> 
> I'm sure that if a taxi costs less from BC to Disney, people will be doing that.  The main thing is, those not wanting transportation to the park won't be paying for someone else who does.


agree.  $5* round trip* sounds pretty good to me, not predatory, and super-convenient over calling cab, etc.  

Besides, the tykes are free and won't those little bodies be the bulk of the passengers?

It's nice to see a usage fee vs what I would consider predatory in bilking everyone whether you use it or not.


----------



## C30NY

So this new structure will apply to everyone staying at BC, including owners?


----------



## lcml11

geekette said:


> agree.  $5* round trip* sounds pretty good to me, not predatory, and super-convenient over calling cab, etc.
> 
> Besides, the tykes are free and won't those little bodies be the bulk of the passengers?
> 
> It's nice to see a usage fee vs what I would consider predatory in bilking everyone whether you use it or not.



Maingate Transportation is the service that Bonnet Creek uses, according to their front desk.


----------



## lcml11

C30NY said:


> So this new structure will apply to everyone staying at BC, including owners?



According to Bonnet Creek, the answer is yes.  According to Wyndham Coorporate, their E-Mail per person said person.  The issue on children 3 and under is open to who you talk to, Wyndham Coorporate, the Resort, or the e-mail.

I guess the bottom line for owners, the level of service they have available for their maintance fees at Bonnet Creek has just gone down.

"Walt Disney World®; Resort shuttles at the resort"  To soften the blow, it looks like the resort is describing them as the Walt Disney World shuttle.  To bad this does not appear to be true.  Maybe Walt Disney World should go for a piece of their revenue for the use of the their trademarked name.


----------



## C30NY

My thinking is why would the HOA reverse/change the policy, and INCLUDE themselves in having to pay.  Maybe I'm just not as generous of a person as the members of the board?  :rofl:  As you state, they just devalued their own level of service.


----------



## levatino

I will pay the fee, rent a car, or stay elsewhere.


----------



## am1

C30NY said:


> My thinking it why would the HOA reverse the decision, and INCLUDE themselves in having to pay.  Maybe I'm just not as generous of a person as the members of the board?  :rofl:  As you state, they just devalued their own level of service.



Bonnet Creek HOA is not the making the calls if they will now half to pay.

I will throw it out there that I have been the biggest winner because of this fee, (Got reservations cancelled at Bonnet Creek and Ocean Walk I did not cancel at 15 days), biggest loser and biggest winner because of this fee.  $5/roundtrip per person is a lot cheaper than charging $12 a day/unit for everyone.  

Who pays for all of the expense that went into announcing this fee and then changing it


----------



## csxjohn

C30NY said:


> My thinking is why would the HOA reverse/change the policy, and INCLUDE themselves in having to pay.  Maybe I'm just not as generous of a person as the members of the board?  :rofl:  As you state, they just devalued their own level of service.



Many resorts provide goods and services that they charge all owner and quests.

At Coconut Palms II anyone can rent beach equipment including owners.

Tropic Shores provides ice cream sundaes every afternoon.  Everyone pays $1

The HOA may have devalued their own level of service but if this was done to keep MF in line with what the board thinks they should be, good for them.  It's nice to them try to look at the big picture.

Of course we really don't know for sure that owners will be charged this fee.  We'll know sometime after March 1.

I can see as many complaints come in from those who plan to use the shuttle as they got from those who do not.

And I find if laughable that BC doesn't know who its owners are.:hysterical:


----------



## DeniseM

I feel sorry for the front desk - they are not responsible for making policy or explaining the thought process behind it, and it appears that some of you have called them multiple times.


----------



## lcml11

levatino said:


> I will pay the fee, rent a car, or stay elsewhere.



According to Wyndham Corporate, a lot of people have cancelled or changed reservations to Star Island or the other Florida resorts.


----------



## jjmanthei05

lcml11 said:


> According to Wyndham Corporate, a lot of people have cancelled or changed reservations to Star Island or the other Florida resorts.



How pissed would some people have to be if they had a reservation at BC. They canceled it because they had no intention of using the shuttle and didn't want to pay the fee. Now they wouldn't have to pay the fee but the reservation they canceled is no longer available. 

Jason


----------



## C30NY

jjmanthei05 said:


> How pissed would some people have to be if they had a reservation at BC. They canceled it because they had no intention of using the shuttle and didn't want to pay the fee. Now they wouldn't have to pay the fee but the reservation they canceled is no longer available.
> 
> Jason



All part of the game.  Same can be applied to many things....  Sometimes I fly from NYC because it is cheaper than my home airport, but then two months later rates from my home decrease.  Sure it kinda ticks me off, but thats the game of chance.  I havent been in the loop with Wyndham all that long, but while researching it appears things change often, like all of the other brands.


----------



## geekette

jjmanthei05 said:


> How pissed would some people have to be if they had a reservation at BC. They canceled it because they had no intention of using the shuttle and didn't want to pay the fee. Now they wouldn't have to pay the fee but the reservation they canceled is no longer available.
> 
> Jason



People live with the consequences of making rash decisions all the time.


----------



## lcml11

jjmanthei05 said:


> How pissed would some people have to be if they had a reservation at BC. They canceled it because they had no intention of using the shuttle and didn't want to pay the fee. Now they wouldn't have to pay the fee but the reservation they canceled is no longer available.
> 
> Jason



There are probably still a lot of people with reservations that still have that decision to make.  That could go on for another year or so with the ARP reservations.  It may take that long or longer for Wyndham to come up with a final answer.

Like one corporate Wyndham supervisor was quoted as saying, people will know when they show up.  From the looks of it, it is the hands of the HOA and the Wyndham Management company at Bonnet Creek.


----------



## Pietin

geekette said:


> agree.  $5* round trip* sounds pretty good to me, not predatory, and super-convenient over calling cab, etc.



I believe the buses are rented from Main Gate Transportation.  As for being super-convenient, not.  The shuttle runs ever 1/2 hour to either set of parks and stop running in the afternoon for a couple of hours.  During the holidays they would fill up.  Coming back in the evening, they would not run on time, traffic or what have you.  They would be packed and in most cases the park would still be open and the last shuttle would have left already, so if you wanted to make the shuttle you would have to leave the parks early.  This year the buses (full size buses) were in a little better condition that last.

As for an amenity, the resort description listed the shuttle service and it was a selling point at the sales meeting.    When we stayed at Summer Bay about 3-4 years ago they used the same company and the service was free.  

I don't mind driving to the parks if I need to, but saving $14 a day parking over 5 - 6 days add us to an extra nice meal at the parks.  For this the inconvenience of the shuttle was fine.   I don’t know how it is at other times of the year but the service is only OK.  Again I think that the shuttle is a draw over the other Wyndham resorts in the area, but if it goes away, so be it.


----------



## paxsarah

It will be interesting to see how this all works on our March trip. We were planning on driving to the parks (we have annual passes so free parking) but were planning to fall back on the shuttles if someone wanted to leave at a different time as the rest of the group. I wonder how they will charge for half a round trip? Or will someone be able to hop the shuttle back from the park at all if they didn't take the shuttle there in the first place?

It makes sense to me for children under 3 to be free - if Disney doesn't even charge a park entry fee for them, it seems that BC could probably spare them the bus fee as well.


----------



## csxjohn

geekette said:


> People live with the consequences of making rash decisions all the time.



My thoughts exactly when people started talking about buying points based at BC.

I've found in Timeshare World, if there's doubt about something, don't be the first mouse to the cheese.:ignore:


----------



## Pietin

csxjohn said:


> My thoughts exactly when people started talking about buying points based at BC.
> 
> I've found in Timeshare World, if there's doubt about something, don't be the first mouse to the cheese.:ignore:



I am sure BC prices will retreat again.


----------



## Ginger's Mom

All I can say is that I am appalled that Wyndham and the HOA made such a brash decision without FIRST doing some research and polling.  It wouldn't have been hard to do a poll--they have a captive audience right there at BC--hundreds of new ones every week or so!!!!!

And I find it extremely POOR customer service to force a fee on people who made reservations under another set of conditions (no fee)--no matter what the fee turns out to be.

I still believe a reasonable user fee (like $5 per party/room/day) is more in line with good customer service--as long as it is effective 13 months from now.

Just for fun--how many of you would have balked at $5 per room/day as a user fee to ride the shuttle?

I'm new here--can someone start a poll?


----------



## am1

paxsarah said:


> It makes sense to me for children under 3 to be free - if Disney doesn't even charge a park entry fee for them, it seems that BC could probably spare them the bus fee as well.



Someone has to pay for them.  I would think it would be better if space was available, kids under how many years ride for free if space is available.  Or 1 free child per adult.


----------



## paxsarah

am1 said:


> Someone has to pay for them.  I would think it would be better if space was available, kids under how many years ride for free if space is available.  Or 1 free child per adult.



I know that it's on a completely different scale, but Disney manages to let kids under 3 in for free (to the parks themselves, not just the transportation) without adding any caveats. Certainly BC doesn't have to let them ride for free, but if it were me I wouldn't want to put my resort in the position of looking _more_ money-grubbing than Disney.


----------



## am1

Disney still makes money off of kids under 3 once they and their parents are in the parks.  With very little additional expense.  

BC is trying to cover the cost of the shuttle.  



paxsarah said:


> I know that it's on a completely different scale, but Disney manages to let kids under 3 in for free (to the parks themselves, not just the transportation) without adding any caveats. Certainly BC doesn't have to let them ride for free, but if it were me I wouldn't want to put my resort in the position of looking _more_ money-grubbing than Disney.


----------



## lcml11

Ginger's Mom said:


> All I can say is that I am appalled that Wyndham and the HOA made such a brash decision without FIRST doing some research and polling.  It wouldn't have been hard to do a poll--they have a captive audience right there at BC--hundreds of new ones every week or so!!!!!
> 
> And I find it extremely POOR customer service to force a fee on people who made reservations under another set of conditions (no fee)--no matter what the fee turns out to be.
> 
> I still believe a reasonable user fee (like $5 per party/room/day) is more in line with good customer service--as long as it is effective 13 months from now.
> 
> Just for fun--how many of you would have balked at $5 per room/day as a user fee to ride the shuttle?
> 
> I'm new here--can someone start a poll?




The basic issue here is not so much as the transportation fee as it is the fee for service model that Wyndham is using and/or its earlier verisions.

As I understand it, once upon a time the reservations were free, now they cost a reservation transaction unless you are Gold or Silver VIP.

Guest passes were not limited.

As far as I can tell house cleaning was not a fee, not sure on this one.  Now it needs housekeeping credits unless you are VIP Gold or Silver.

Parking costs at some locations.

Kingsgate charges a amenities fee.

I did not totaly understand what happened at Smuglers Notch, but fees somehow got in the door in some form.

These are in addition to the program fees and maintance fees that are already paid.

The general drift, if one were a cynical, is that the direction that things are going is that the owner owns the underlying property interests, pays for the upkeep, then pays to use the faciltiy for them or their guests or clients.

Fortunatly, deeded property rights and rights given through various state laws are not necessarily a majority rule issue.


----------



## simpsontruckdriver

On the other hand, it might be due to Resales that resorts are doing this. Back before people knew what resales were, resorts were making big money off of resort (developer) purchases. With the advent of the Internet, and sites like eBay, people are buying timeshares at less than 0.01% of Retail. I understand WBC's point of charging for the bus, it's not cheap. Diesel costs, maintenance, personnel to drive, etc.

I think the best option would've been to offer a Bus Pass for $12 per day. That way, if a person just wants to stay at the resort, and not go to Disney, they don't pay. It's still a savings, since parking is $14, so the only way to make it worth it is to go to Disney every day you're there. My wife and I have Annual Passes to Walt Disney World, so it's not worth it at all (Annual Passholders get free parking).

TS


----------



## csxjohn

simpsontruckdriver said:


> On the other hand, it might be due to Resales that resorts are doing this. Back before people knew what resales were, resorts were making big money off of resort (developer) purchases. With the advent of the Internet, and sites like eBay, people are buying timeshares at less than 0.01% of Retail. I understand WBC's point of charging for the bus, it's not cheap. Diesel costs, maintenance, personnel to drive, etc.
> 
> ...
> TS



What the developer makes off TS sales has nothing to do with the cost of operating the resort.  The developer is not going to use it's profits from sales to subsidize long term costs of operations.

Those costs are divided up between all the owners so it doesn't matter if you pay $30,000 for  your unit or $3, you'll make an equal payment toward those costs.


----------



## lcml11

csxjohn said:


> What the developer makes off TS sales has nothing to do with the cost of operating the resort.  The developer is not going to use it's profits from sales to subsidize long term costs of operations.
> 
> Those costs are divided up between all the owners so it doesn't matter if you pay $30,000 for  your unit or $3, you'll make an equal payment toward those costs.



Does anyone know if member services (parking pass people) resort paid or Coorporate paid?


----------



## JimMIA

lcml11 said:


> Does anyone know if member services (parking pass people) resort paid or Coorporate paid?


The front desk folks are paid by the resort and would be part of that resort's MFs.  

The sales weasels at parking pass desks and other hiding places are members of the sales staff -- NOT the resort staff.  That's why they are able to provide such interesting insights on timeshare ownership -- they have a direct line to the "truth."


----------



## lcml11

JimMIA said:


> The front desk folks are paid by the resort and would be part of that resort's MFs.
> 
> The sales weasels at parking pass desks and other hiding places are members of the sales staff -- NOT the resort staff.  That's why they are able to provide such interesting insights on timeshare ownership -- they have a direct line to the "truth."



Or the truth, according to Wyndham sales, as the case may be.


----------



## luckyrose

I was just there  after Feb 15 and Manager told me that it will be maybe $5 charge for people who wants to use a bus, but not a resort fee for owners or guests,  I did not pay anything and was not ask to pay. but if you stay at hotel part ( not timeshare part ) you have to pay fee.


----------



## PlasWinder

luckyrose said:


> I was just there  after Feb 15 and Manager told me that it will be maybe $5 charge for people who wants to use a bus, but not a resort fee for owners or guests,  I did not pay anything and was not ask to pay. but if you stay at hotel part ( not timeshare part ) you have to pay fee.



Maybe so, but just a few days later, the story became:

"As a result of recent feedback, the Bonnet Creek Home Owners Association has reversed the recently communicated $12 per unit / per day transportation fee for guests staying at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. Beginning March 1, 2013, transportation fees will only be applied to individuals who use the Walt Disney World® Resort shuttles at the resort."

So we'll see what the fee is that gets charged next Friday and who they actually try to charge it.  (It's vague in the wording above other than if you don't use the shuttle, you definitely won't be paying the fee.  Beyond that, I wouldn't hold my breath just yet.)


----------



## Ron2

I just made a Bonnet Creek reservation today and was told that the Disney shuttle service fee would be $5 per person per day (all day use) and would only be charged on the days you choose to use the shuttle. I was also told that Club Access and Bonnet Creek owners will not be charged the fee.


----------



## JimMIA

rsphelps said:


> I just made a Bonnet Creek reservation today and was told that the Disney shuttle service fee would be $5 per person per day (all day use) and would only be charged on the days you choose to use the shuttle. I was also told that Club Access and Bonnet Creek owners will not be charged the fee.


That sounds more rational, practical to implement, and fair than the other things that have been announced and reversed, or rumored..._although_...$5 per person will still be a bit of a burden for families with several kids.

I personally think something like $10-$12 per day per unit for those using the shuttle would be better.  I think enough people would use it to generate sufficient revenue to help the WBC HOA's finances.  

$25 per day for a family with three kids *a)* seems a LOT like price-gouging, and *b)* is enough of a hurdle that the family might look for other options -- either other ways of getting to the parks, or other places to stay.


----------



## C30NY

I'm glad the fee will not be charged to owners.  It leaves the flexibility for us all to go and come as we like, without being tied to one car or having to worry about how much it's costing.  Plus added in with the Disney AP, it makes no car much more realistic since all transportation within is free.


----------



## uscav8r

JimMIA said:


> I personally think something like $10-$12 per day per unit for those using the shuttle would be better.



$12/day/unit was the ORIGINAL fee that was recently added!!!!!! 

Now families that go (who are not BC of CWA owners) will like pay MORE! Nice job.... 

It seems like some people on this BBS are making this recent update out to be some sort of a victory, but I am far from convinced. 

As a BC owner it was not likely to affect me, but people should be careful of what they wish for, cuz they just might get it (and not in the way they expected)....


----------



## ronparise

uscav8r said:


> $12/day/unit was the ORIGINAL fee that was recently added!!!!!!
> 
> Now families that go (who are not BC of CWA owners) will like pay MORE! Nice job....
> 
> It seems like some people on this BBS are making this recent update out to be some sort of a victory, but I am far from convinced.
> 
> As a BC owner it was not likely to affect me, but people should be careful of what they wish for, cuz they just might get it (and not in the way they expected)....



The original proposal would have cost every family $12/day, whether a couple, or an extended family of ten.whethe they used the shuttle or not. The new proposal charges each person that uses the service. You can argue that $5 a day is too high, but you cant argue that a user fee isnt the more fair way to pay for the bus


----------



## JimMIA

uscav8r said:


> $12/day/unit was the ORIGINAL fee that was recently added!!!!!!


Right.  I think everyone here is aware that $12 per day/unit was the original number.   But the original fee was to be imposed on everyone, whether or not they used the shuttle.  That was a stupid decision, IMHO, and it obviously didn't fly.

The key words in my post, however, are _ *"... for those using the shuttle."* _

That is a world of difference from what your HOA initially (and foolishly) tried to impose.

$12 per day per unit for those USING the shuttle is a reasonable fee for those who USE the shuttle.


----------



## bnoble

> You can argue that $5 a day is too high


And I think you'd be wrong.

For example, ART costs about that, at least for those 10 and over.
http://www.rideart.org/individual/

That's in Anaheim, where hotels and the parks are considerably closer to one another than you'd find at WDW.


----------



## luckyrose

As far as I know there is no charge now. It could happen. but not yet or ever. But maybe never.


----------



## chriskre

JimMIA said:


> $25 per day for a family with three kids *a)* seems a LOT like price-gouging, and *b)* is enough of a hurdle that the family might look for other options -- either other ways of getting to the parks, or other places to stay.



Might as well take a taxi and not ride with the herd.


----------



## MFT

Does anyone remember an earlier posting, in which some people staying at BC were talking to another family waiting for the shuttle.  I don't recall how the conversation went, but the other family wasn't even staying at the resort!  They just drove in, parked, and were taking the free shuttle over to Disney.  I wonder if this is a common problem at BC, with non-guests using the shuttle (as well as probably the  pools, etc...)  

Some resorts are better than others at checking the purpose of those folks pulling in.  Others, I think are a bit more slack checking who you are and why you are there.  And of course, many don't have a gate at all... just cruise on in.

I don't have an issue with this fee, as a pay to play option makes sense.  As it is, we rent a car, so use it to the park, etc...  So I would have had an issue paying $84 for a week of not using the shuttle.


----------



## jjmanthei05

MFT said:


> Does anyone remember an earlier posting, in which some people staying at BC were talking to another family waiting for the shuttle.  I don't recall how the conversation went, but the other family wasn't even staying at the resort!  They just drove in, parked, and were taking the free shuttle over to Disney.  I wonder if this is a common problem at BC, with non-guests using the shuttle (as well as probably the  pools, etc...)
> 
> Some resorts are better than others at checking the purpose of those folks pulling in.  Others, I think are a bit more slack checking who you are and why you are there.  And of course, many don't have a gate at all... just cruise on in.
> 
> I don't have an issue with this fee, as a pay to play option makes sense.  As it is, we rent a car, so use it to the park, etc...  So I would have had an issue paying $84 for a week of not using the shuttle.



From my experience, it is difficult to do. We tried to look just look at the resort when we were on an RCI exchange to Summer bay and it took me close to 5 min to talk myself past the guard. Yes I was able to get in by being adamant I had a reservation but I don't think this is a "common problem".

Jason


----------



## JimMIA

jjmanthei05 said:


> From my experience, it is difficult to do. We tried to look just look at the resort when we were on an RCI exchange to Summer bay and it took me close to 5 min to talk myself past the guard. Yes I was able to get in by being adamant I had a reservation but I don't think this is a "common problem".
> 
> Jason


Agree.  This practice is a problem for DVC resorts, especially SSR, but not for WBC.  Quite a few people park at Downtown Disney, ride the bus, and then ride the bus back to SSR and walk back to their cars.  Been a problem for years.

At WBC, you have to show a room key to get into the property -- not the stupid "parking pass," incidentally which is NOT accepted for entry.


----------



## chriskre

JimMIA said:


> At WBC, you have to show a room key to get into the property -- not the stupid "parking pass," incidentally which is NOT accepted for entry.



It depends who is at the gate.


----------



## JimMIA

chriskre said:


> It depends who is at the gate.


Yep, that's the way of the world these days...especially down here in "Paradise" where we live!


----------



## Ginger's Mom

We just returned from a Daytona/Disney weekend.  The security seems to have been increased at the Bonnet Creek Gate.  You either use your room key to open the right lane gate, or go by the guard in the left lane.

Scored a 1BR Pres. on the 15th floor in Bldg. 6.  Stayed in a 1 BR Pres. in the 17th floor of Bldg. 6 in December.  Points is points!!!!!!!

Newest scam........."Sales" offers and advertises some sort of small-group "workshops" that take about an hour, supposed to be "question and answer."  Will give you breakfast and  $75 to attend.  I believe someone else said that at the end of the workshop, you break into much smaller groups for "the push."  You can put lipstick on a pig...............

Also, since we declined their most generous offer, and then went to our room and unplugged the phones, we found a Seaworld postcard under our door later that asked us to "come down and complete the registration process." Didn't fall for that, either.

Seems like "Sales" is a little less aggressive in Bldg. 6 than in the other non-Pres. Bldgs.   But we still have not topped the vicious Sales Team at Smoky Mtn.!!!!!!

Anne in SE FL


----------



## Ginger's Mom

PS  We were also told by "Sales" that Wyn just purchased "Shells" timeshares.  I am new to this group---did I miss something--or was that another Wyn lie to get you to go to their "workshop"??????

Anne in SE FL


----------



## bnoble

Wyndham did purchase Shell Vacation Club.  However, much like WorldMark, it is run as a completely independent entity.


----------



## Ginger's Mom

Thanks.  Haven't I seen you elsewhere?  Brian?

Anyway, I looked at their inventory, all 24 sites.  Kinda ho-hum compared to Wyn.

Anne in SE FL


----------



## rickandcindy23

All you have to do is blink, and the transportation fee changes.  

Now they are charging $5.00 per person per day for a shuttle fee.  Yep, and that is the front desk saying it. 

No reason to count on the resort's transportation.  The savings on shuttle fees will pay in full for the car rental.  

Bonnet Creek, get your act together!


----------



## am1

rickandcindy23 said:


> All you have to do is blink, and the transportation fee changes.
> 
> Now they are charging $5.00 per person per day for a shuttle fee.  Yep, and that is the front desk saying it.
> 
> No reason to count on the resort's transportation.  The savings on shuttle fees will pay in full for the car rental.
> 
> Bonnet Creek, get your act together!



I was told round-trip.  One ways are not sold.


----------



## rickandcindy23

am1 said:


> I was told round-trip.  One ways are not sold.



I never said anything about one-way was $5.  It's $5 per person per day.  Where are the reactions to this change.  No one is seeing this post because everyone thinks the issue is over and done.


----------



## tschwa2

rickandcindy23 said:


> I never said anything about one-way was $5.  It's $5 per person per day.  Where are the reactions to this change.  No one is seeing this post because everyone thinks the issue is over and done.



Well it was posted about 8 days ago on this thread and there were a couple of reactions (2 pages back).  My feeling is that a per person/ per day fee is fairer than charging everyone (except owners at BC at club access) whether they used the shuttle or not.  For those who don't want to or can't rent a car and park at the park it is available.  But no one has to use it and pay the fee if they don't want to.


----------



## Sandi Bo

When they were first building Bonnet Creek, the shuttle service only ran a couple times a day.  They talked about how it would get better as more buildings were built.  And it has.   

If they charge $5 per person, who will pay to take it?  Doubtful anyone that has a car, it will be cheaper to pay Disney parking fees. 

That will leave mostly free riders (Bonnet Creek owners and CWA is what we are hearing). 

If they keep the shuttle, I don't expect the service to be as good as it is today.  And I wouldn't expect BC to make any money, because they won't get many paying customers.  I suppose they will save money if they are able to reduce the number of shuttles running.

Just too bad, IMO, it was a nice perk to Bonnet Creek.


----------



## am1

rickandcindy23 said:


> I never said anything about one-way was $5.  It's $5 per person per day.  Where are the reactions to this change.  No one is seeing this post because everyone thinks the issue is over and done.



Never said you did.  Not sure where you would think that.   But what I have been told is it is $5/person roundtrip not per day.  One cannot take the shuttle back to Bonnet Creek paying for a oneway or a roundtrip.


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## DavidnJudy

*Relieved*

I have a reservation through RCI for WBC for the end of March, and I got a letter from RCI about 2 weeks ago saying I would need to pay 84 dollars for shuttles whether I used it or not. I was like this ->  , but I couldn't change to another resort because Easter week is very popular. And besides I was really looking forward to WBC because we have never stayed there and it looks awesome!

I never got another letter from RCI saying the fee was gone - I learned it by googling and finding it on TUG - thank you TUG ... BUT I did get a letter from Wyndham .. one of those "We are excited that you have choosen Wyndham Bonnet Creek ..." etc etc.. It is a nice "pamplet" of what they have. In there it said - "This Resort offers a daily round-trip shuttle from the lobby to the Walt Disney Resort for a fee."  ... I thought Hmmmm this doesn't sound like it is manadorty but you pay the fee if you ride - This totally makes sense!!!  And I could even see people with a car using it if for instance some people in your group wanted to go to Univeral and other Disney, then some could use the shuttle that day - totally makes sense.

Anyway, I was going to try to fight the fee when I got down there, based on the letter Wyndham sent (not the RCI letter.)  But now I don't have to fight not to pay for a service I would never use (not going to Disney and have a car), AND a fee I didn't know about when I booked it!  Wyndham did the right thing here. Sure it could be cheaper for the round trip, sure it could be free, but at least they are not charging people who won't use it.

Thanks TUG for easing my mind about my upcoming trip.

By the way when you are figuring in the cost of the shuttle VS. renting a car, remember if you don't rent a car you have to ADD the cost of transportation from the airport TO the resort.  (Of course if you drive there yourself you have your own car and don't need the shuttle.  I am thinking only airport people even need the shuttle.)

Thanks WBC for doing the right thing    (even if you did the wrong thing at first)


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## recycleman

*Transportation Fee @ Bonnet Creek*

We just concluded a visit at Bonnet Creek (2/22 - 2/26) and at checkin was ready to complain about the $12/day fee, until the receptionist said there was no charge.  She explained that effective March 1st, there will be a $5/person roundtrip charge to use the shuttle, and not the automatic $12/day charge as previously stated.


----------



## Goofyhobbie

*Letter From WYNDHAM VACATION OWNERSHIP, INC.*

The following letter was slipped under the door of most if not all of the occupied units at Wyndham Bonnet Creek this evening.

*WYNDHAM
Vacation Ownership*​
RE:  DISNEY PARKS TRANSPORTATION SHUTTLE TICKETS

To Our Valued Owners and Guests:


Based on owner feedback, the Bonnet Creek Homeowners Association will modify its transportation fee to a $5 per person/per round trip fee for *ALL *guests, regardless of ownership. Children 3 and under will ride free.  The fee which goes into effect on March 2, 2013, covers the cost of providing shuttle transportation to and from Walt Disney World® theme parks.

Locations to purchase tickets:


Front Desk:  24 hours a day, 7 days a week

 Concierge Desk: 7:30 a. m. - 8:30 p. m.
  (except on Thursday when the hours are 7:30 a. m. - 5:00 p. m. )

  Activities Desk: 8:00 a.m. - 11.00 p. m., 7 days a week]

The following methods of payment are accepted:

  Cash

  Major Credit Cards, including American Express, Visa, MasterCard and Discover

  If you have a major credit card on file, you can charge their tickets to their room at either the Activities Desk or the Front Desk.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact a member of the Front Desk staff by pressing '0' from your in-room phone.



Sincerely,

s/Richard Scinta
Resort Manager
Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort

RS/cm


Wyndham Vacation Ownership, Inc.
Bonnet Creek Resort
9560 Via Encinas - P. O. Box 22819
Lake Buena Vista, FL  32830
Ph (407) 238-3500​


----------



## montygz

Sandi Bo said:


> When they were first building Bonnet Creek, the shuttle service only ran a couple times a day.  They talked about how it would get better as more buildings were built.  And it has.
> 
> If they charge $5 per person, who will pay to take it?  Doubtful anyone that has a car, it will be cheaper to pay Disney parking fees.
> 
> That will leave mostly free riders (Bonnet Creek owners and CWA is what we are hearing).
> 
> If they keep the shuttle, I don't expect the service to be as good as it is today.  And I wouldn't expect BC to make any money, because they won't get many paying customers.  I suppose they will save money if they are able to reduce the number of shuttles running.
> 
> Just too bad, IMO, it was a nice perk to Bonnet Creek.


Our family of 5 would have to pay $25 for the shuttle -- which means we won't be using  it as it is more than double the cost of parking at Disney.

It's a shame because it was a great amenity for the resort and the buses were often full. Since Bonnet Creek caters to larger families and is a popular resort to rent, I'm sure many of them will abandon using the bus service because of the cost.

I'd be curious to know why they decided to end the free bus service.

Was it because the buses were too crowded and the owners wanted to create a incentive for people to drive their cars to the parks?

Was it because the owners were jealous of the inexpensive cost of renting and were looking to punish renters financially?

So many resorts have gone the "upsell" route for everything from parking to luggage to disguise the true cost of a vacation, it's a shame Bonnet Creek is joining them.


----------



## comicbookman

montygz said:


> Was it because the buses were too crowded and the owners wanted to create a incentive for people to drive their cars to the parks?
> 
> Was it because the owners were jealous of the inexpensive cost of renting and were looking to punish renters financially?
> 
> So many resorts have gone the "upsell" route for everything from parking to luggage to disguise the true cost of a vacation, it's a shame Bonnet Creek is joining them.



I suspect it was as simple as those owners that don't use the buses where tired of paying for them.  It is no different from a resort that charges extra for horse rides or to rent boats.  The tickets also make it easier to restrict ridership to only those staying at the resort.  I have no problem with use fees for amenities that go above and beyond the standard. I do think some accommodations should have been made for existing reservations, At least through April.


----------



## JimMIA

montygz said:


> Was it because the owners were jealous of the inexpensive cost of renting and were looking to punish renters financially?


I doubt if they're trying to "punish" anyone -- just trying to recover some costs paid from their MFs.

I personally think the bumbling manner in which this has been implemented has shown that the HOA is pretty clueless.  

I also think the pricing may have the opposite effect from what they wanted.  If they'd been a little smarter, they could have made this work.  But the way they're blundering through it I think the most likely outcome is the elimination of the buses entirely because large family groups won't be able to afford to ride them.

Doesn't matter to me because we drive everywhere, but I think the WBC HOA has shot themselves in the foot.


----------



## timeos2

Assuming this latest update (everyone who uses the shuttle pays $5 per person - no owner or other designated exceptions) actually sticks (it is the what, 7th revision?) then it makes anyone who rushed into an ill-advised purchase at BC to "save" look rather silly. 

The bottom line remains that points are points in the Wyndham system except for ARP.  It also shows again that Wyndham will so whatever they want and the owners are powerless to stop it. It is best to base any purchase / hold decisions about Wyndham strictly on the guaranteed value and best estimated ongoing cost of the points and ignore the rest such as any perceived owner only benefits / VIP. All it will do is base any purchase decisions made on a bed of rapidly shifting sand.


----------



## jjmanthei05

montygz said:


> Our family of 5 would have to pay $25 for the shuttle -- which means we won't be using  it as it is more than double the cost of parking at Disney.
> 
> It's a shame because it was a great amenity for the resort and the buses were often full. Since Bonnet Creek caters to larger families and is a popular resort to rent, I'm sure many of them will abandon using the bus service because of the cost.
> 
> I'd be curious to know why they decided to end the free bus service.
> 
> Was it because the buses were too crowded and the owners wanted to create a incentive for people to drive their cars to the parks?
> 
> Was it because the owners were jealous of the inexpensive cost of renting and were looking to punish renters financially?
> 
> So many resorts have gone the "upsell" route for everything from parking to luggage to disguise the true cost of a vacation, it's a shame Bonnet Creek is joining them.



This isn't necessarily double for family's to use the shuttle if they had no intention of renting a car to begin with. Then it becomes significantly cheaper than paying $300-$1000 for a rental car/minivan. I guess i don't see how this is a big deal. It is a cost of the vacation. If you are renting from an owner then negotiate a lower price to cover the added cost. Would you rather had them not offer the service at all? 

Jason


----------



## ronparise

montygz said:


> I'd be curious to know why they decided to end the free bus service.



The bus service was never free, 

The owners at Bonnet Creek were paying for it in their maintenance fees

Now the folks that use this "extra service" will pay for it


----------



## timeos2

ronparise said:


> The bus service was never free,
> 
> The owners at Bonnet Creek were paying for it in their maintenance fees
> 
> Now the folks that use this "extra service" will pay for it



Ron is absolutely correct. Nothing at any timeshare is "free" - someone is paying for it. As long as it is an optional service not normally a part of a stay at most resorts & everyone (owners too) pays the same I have no problems with it.


----------



## JimMIA

timeos2 said:


> Assuming this latest update (everyone who uses the shuttle pays $5 per person - no owner or other designated exceptions) actually sticks (it is the what, 7th revision?) then it makes anyone who rushed into an ill-advised purchase at BC to "save" look rather silly.


Does someone who rushes into *ANY* timeshare purchase need any help looking "rather silly?"  I think not.

And especially someone who rushes into a timeshare purchase to save $12 per day on buses or whatever!


----------



## chapjim

jjmanthei05 said:


> This isn't necessarily double for family's to use the shuttle if they had no intention of renting a car to begin with. Then it becomes significantly cheaper than paying $300-$1000 for a rental car/minivan. I guess i don't see how this is a big deal. It is a cost of the vacation. If you are renting from an owner then negotiate a lower price to cover the added cost. Would you rather had them not offer the service at all?
> 
> Jason



I'm not sure why I should lower my price.  My cost structure didn't change.  Plus, for many guests, there is no added cost because they weren't going to use the shuttle anyway.

Bonnet Creek is now just like other resorts.  A guest can drive somewhere, pay for a shuttle where available, ride the city bus, take a taxi, whatever.

The City of Alexandria offers a free shuttle from the King Street Metro Station to the Potomac River front.  Let's say Alexandria starts charging $1 for tokens for a one way ride.  Should I reduce my asking price for a rental at Wyndham Old Town Alexandria?  By how much?


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## vacationhopeful

chapjim said:


> I'm not sure why I should lower my price.  My cost structure didn't change....


 Everyone wants a bargain -- I can rent Star Island cheaper than Bonnet Creek; just like Bonnet Creek is cheaper than DVC. You get what you pay for.

The shuttle was "sales tool" to sound like you were staying inside the Disney gates (arch) with a "shuttle" to the WDW parks. And now, the HOA was having to pay the bill, the FREE became a chargable luxury. 

Finally, someone realized selling tickets on the bus wasn't going to work and checking WHO owned what, wasn't going to work, either. 

I can wait for the "how do you handle a lost ticket on the resort bound leg of the trip?" esp for a young teen. 

Now, I can see a new rule, under 18yo must be with an adult who is responsible for the child.

Just goes to show, the more they try to insist Bonnet Creek is just like Disney, the more it becomes apparent it is NOTHING like DVC.


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## JimMIA

chapjim said:


> I'm not sure why I should lower my price.  My cost structure didn't change.  Plus, for many guests, there is no added cost because they weren't going to use the shuttle anyway.


Right, for the folks who drive like we do, the fee means nothing.  

OTOH, I suspect that the general rental market audience has a rather high percentage of shuttle-riders.  To those folks, the fee matters -- especially those guests staying in 2-4 bedrooms with larger groups.  The fee will be a consideration for those people -- not a deal-breaker necessarily, but something to think about.



> Bonnet Creek is now just like other resorts.


Which is not a good thing for Platinum VIPs running a rental business.  

Previously, WBC was better than other resorts.  Now it's equal.  

That is not a good thing for those in the rental business.


----------



## zabo

Originally Posted by montygz  

I'd be curious to know why they decided to end the free bus service.


My wife was told by Wyndham that the reason they are charging for bus service is because people that are not staying at the resort are parking their car and taking the shuttle for free.  This then mean less parking spaces for the people who have reservations and are staying at the resort.    Parking is a big complaint from people who stay there.  

I have only been there once and I couldn't park anywhere near the tower we were in.  Cannot remember which tower I was in, but it was next to one of the shuttle pick-up areas.  

Mike


----------



## Ginger's Mom

Not so sure that what your wife was told was true.  If it came from someone trained/employed by Wyn, and their lips were moving, then it is probably NOT true.

If it was true that outsiders park at BC and ride the shuttle, it would seem that the security gate was a totally useless waste of money and therein lies the problem.

Truthfully, the mediocre, limited-service shuttle is hardly worth sneaking in for. 

PS  To verify who is on the shuttle, why not have everyone show their ROOM KEY????  This isn't even rocket science!

Anne in SE FL


----------



## bnoble

> I suspect that the general rental market audience has a rather high percentage of shuttle-riders.


But it wasn't always so.  A few years ago on DISboards, conventional wisdom was "rent a car at Bonnet".  It's only been the last year or so that the bargain-basement folks have changed that to "the shuttles are okay."  Frankly, we can probably live without the bargain-basement folks.

And, honestly, Bonnet is the wrong place to be renting things out if you are a Plat mega-renter anyway.  There's just too much competition---at Bonnet specifically, and Orlando generally---and it is a buyer's market just about year-round.

It will still draw "Disney-centric" rental guests better than the other Wyndham Orlando resorts, because it feels like it is inside the bubble.


----------



## montygz

ronparise said:


> The bus service was never free,
> 
> The owners at Bonnet Creek were paying for it in their maintenance fees
> 
> Now the folks that use this "extra service" will pay for it


I agree 100% percent the bus service wasn't free, just like the pools aren't free and the minigolf isn't free. I look at these things as a whole that make the resort what it is, not as individual items.

Some may say that bus service to Disney isn't a "core" service, but I disagree. The reason most people stay at Bonnet Creek is to visit Disney. The buses were often packed, often times with large families and groups.

There is no doubt that running a top-flight resort like Bonnet Creek costs more money every year, and fees have to go up to pay for it. I would think they are worth paying for to keep the level of service the same.

I also hope they don't keep looking for new things to charge for, like pools, minigolf, or parking. After all, not everyone swims, minigolfs or parks at the resprt.

Anyhow, I'm not an owner but I am a frequent renter and I think its a shame.


----------



## pbarager

This is another great tool for the sales department to entice the weak. "Free Disney Shuttle Tickets" for the family!


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## Ginger's Mom

Just put this on my BC Survey:

The resort is wonderful but the vultures in Sales make you dread checking in and being in your room.  NO weary traveler should have to be grilled by Sales while just trying to get a parking pass.  This abuse must stop.  We even have to turn off our phones--so then they slip notes under your door.  So much for enjoying  "the good life"--isn't that the slogan on the room keys?

To make matters worse, the HOA is trying to institute a mandatory $12 user fee for a mediocre shuttle.  No, wait, they have changed their mind, no, wait, now it is even worse--it is $5 per day per person--effective Mar. 2--even if you made your reservations 13 months ago.  Something is very wrong at this resort.  Business goes where it is wanted and stays where it is well treated.  Do we "feel valued" ? (One of your survey questions.)  How can we?

Ask yourselves--what would Disney VC do?  Now there is a successful role model of Customer Service!!!!


----------



## bnoble

> Ask yourselves--what would Disney VC do?


Sure, they provide "free" transportation.  But, it is not free.

Taking a quick peek at ebay, it looks like WBC points are still right around $5.25/K in MFs.  A peak-season (the highest) 2BR week at Bonnet Creek, as an owner, with no point discounts, costs 224K, or $1,176 in MFs.  A Magic Season (the *2nd* highest season, not the highest) 2BR at Saratoga Springs costs 315 points.  Dues at SSR are $5.34, so the total Dues cost of that week is $1,682---an extra $500 give or take.  Of that total, more than 10% ($0.55.pt) is Transportation, or $175, give or take.  Every SSR owner pays that for every week, whether they use ME or not, and whether they use the theme park shuttles or not.


----------



## ronparise

montygz said:


> I agree 100% percent the bus service wasn't free, just like the pools aren't free and the minigolf isn't free. I look at these things as a whole that make the resort what it is, not as individual items.
> 
> Some may say that bus service to Disney isn't a "core" service, but I disagree. The reason most people stay at Bonnet Creek is to visit Disney. The buses were often packed, often times with large families and groups.
> 
> There is no doubt that running a top-flight resort like Bonnet Creek costs more money every year, and fees have to go up to pay for it. I would think they are worth paying for to keep the level of service the same.
> 
> I also hope they don't keep looking for new things to charge for, like pools, minigolf, or parking. After all, not everyone swims, minigolfs or parks at the resprt.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm not an owner but I am a frequent renter and I think its a shame.



I thought long and hard about the question posed in your post...Specifically what are the core services that must or should be included if a hotel wants to call itself a resort.  This begs the question; What is a resort? and whats the difference between a resort and a hotel?

Here are three definitions I found on line:

_In North American English, the term "resort" is now also used for a self-contained commercial establishment which attempts to provide for most of a vacationer's wants while remaining on the premises, such as food, drink, lodging, sports, entertainment, and shopping. 

A place that is a popular destination for vacations or recreation

A hotel is a facility that provides accommodations (bed & bath basically) for transients like travelers and tourists.  A resort is a recreational complex that normally has a center of attraction, like a beach, a garden park, a swimming pool and a restaurant._ 


So in my own words, a hotel provides a bed and bath, a resort provides that plus other recreational ammenities on site. (lets call them "resort ammenities") Enough so that the property is a destination in itself, and there is no need to leave the premises.  In fact the Wyndham directory is careful to call out several of their properties where that is not the case, (they dont have much in the way of "resort amenities") and give them a special name  (Avenue Collection) just so we know that they are different from the rest  and that we shouldnt expect a "resort experience" at these properties. 

So back to "The Bonnet Creek Resort"  It is my feeling that Bonnet Creek lives up to the definition of a resort. That there is on site enough in the way of recreational activities, that a guest has no need to venture off site.  There are swimming pools, water slides, a lazy river, mini golf, pool tables, etc, and now that the hotel is open, shopping , restaurants and a spa. Some of these things are included with the cost of your stay and for some they charge extra, but the common thread is that they are all on site

To provide transportation off site seems counter to the whole idea of a resort. That some people use Bonnet Creek for just for the bed and bath and spend some or all their time at the nearby amusement parks seems to violate the whole idea of a "resort destination" to me. I understand that there are things to do and see outside the gates of Bonnet Creek, but I think its perfectly reasonable to tell a guest, that  if they want to leave, they are on their own. Transportation off site is not a "core service" provided by the owners for their guests.


----------



## JimMIA

bnoble said:


> But it wasn't always so.  A few years ago on DISboards, conventional wisdom was "rent a car at Bonnet".  It's only been the last year or so that the bargain-basement folks have changed that to "the shuttles are okay."  Frankly, we can probably live without the bargain-basement folks.


I agree, but that was then and this is now.  

And I definitely don't think we'll be living without the "bargain-basement folks."  In fact, I think there is a strong trend in the direction of the bargain basement.  When you see people freaking out over an $84 addditional weekly charge for an entire family, there's not much doubt about what floor you're on!





> And, honestly, Bonnet is the wrong place to be renting things out if you are a Plat mega-renter anyway.  There's just too much competition---at Bonnet specifically, and Orlando generally---and it is a buyer's market just about year-round.


Yes, but.  There are at two fairly large rental businesses which seem to specialize in WBC rentals.  WBC (and WDW generally) may not be every mega-renter's paradise, but _somebody_ is doing a whole bunch of renting at WBC!


----------



## uscav8r

comicbookman said:


> I suspect it was as simple as those owners that don't use the buses where tired of paying for them.



Except that I haven't seen any decrease in my monthly fee rate... Of course there could be other offsets that one cannot see. I guess if I really wanted to know I could research it...


----------



## bnoble

> WBC (and WDW generally) may not be every mega-renter's paradise, but somebody is doing a whole bunch of renting at WBC!


At least one (VS), and at this point probably both, are just brokers for other owners, much like David/DVCRequest.  If you do the math, the owners who are supplying the points are barely covering maintenance fees unless the broker is essentially taking nothing.  The broker doesn't care as long as they can find enough supply---they always get paid.  And, for the broker, Bonnet makes sense because even though it is low margin, it is high profile, so it requires less in marketing costs.

It's possible that one (VU) is truly a mega-renter with at least 1M in developer/PIC points plus a pile of resale points.  But if so, they aren't making that much over their TCO, and should be renting other resorts for a better return.


----------



## Ginger's Mom

bnoble said:


> Sure, they provide "free" transportation.  But, it is not free.
> 
> Taking a quick peek at ebay, it looks like WBC points are still right around $5.25/K in MFs.  A peak-season (the highest) 2BR week at Bonnet Creek, as an owner, with no point discounts, costs 224K, or $1,176 in MFs.  A Magic Season (the *2nd* highest season, not the highest) 2BR at Saratoga Springs costs 315 points.  Dues at SSR are $5.34, so the total Dues cost of that week is $1,682---an extra $500 give or take.  Of that total, more than 10% ($0.55.pt) is Transportation, or $175, give or take.  Every SSR owner pays that for every week, whether they use ME or not, and whether they use the theme park shuttles or not.



Hey Brian,

I know it isn't free but the Disney transportation system is SUPERIOR to the Wyn Shuttle, you must admit.  I don't mind paying for something THAT convenient.  And when you trade-in to a Disney TS, thru RCI, I think you pay a mandatory $79 for a full week--a bargain compared to BC!!!!!!!

As a parent, when my kids  (and their friends) got to be teenagers, it sure was wonderful to have the Disney trans. to rely on.  We could all go our separate ways and get back to Ft. Wilderness successfully.  I imagine the same can be said for the DVC.

Anne


----------



## Ginger's Mom

ronparise said:


> I thought long and hard about the question posed in your post...Specifically what are the core services that must or should be included if a hotel wants to call itself a resort.  This begs the question; What is a resort? and whats the difference between a resort and a hotel?
> 
> Here are three definitions I found on line:
> 
> _In North American English, the term "resort" is now also used for a self-contained commercial establishment which attempts to provide for most of a vacationer's wants while remaining on the premises, such as food, drink, lodging, sports, entertainment, and shopping.
> 
> A place that is a popular destination for vacations or recreation
> 
> A hotel is a facility that provides accommodations (bed & bath basically) for transients like travelers and tourists.  A resort is a recreational complex that normally has a center of attraction, like a beach, a garden park, a swimming pool and a restaurant._
> 
> 
> So in my own words, a hotel provides a bed and bath, a resort provides that plus other recreational ammenities on site. (lets call them "resort ammenities") Enough so that the property is a destination in itself, and there is no need to leave the premises.  In fact the Wyndham directory is careful to call out several of their properties where that is not the case, (they dont have much in the way of "resort amenities") and give them a special name  (Avenue Collection) just so we know that they are different from the rest  and that we shouldnt expect a "resort experience" at these properties.
> 
> So back to "The Bonnet Creek Resort"  It is my feeling that Bonnet Creek lives up to the definition of a resort. That there is on site enough in the way of recreational activities, that a guest has no need to venture off site.  There are swimming pools, water slides, a lazy river, mini golf, pool tables, etc, and now that the hotel is open, shopping , restaurants and a spa. Some of these things are included with the cost of your stay and for some they charge extra, but the common thread is that they are all on site
> 
> To provide transportation off site seems counter to the whole idea of a resort. That some people use Bonnet Creek for just for the bed and bath and spend some or all their time at the nearby amusement parks seems to violate the whole idea of a "resort destination" to me. I understand that there are things to do and see outside the gates of Bonnet Creek, but I think its perfectly reasonable to tell a guest, that  if they want to leave, they are on their own. Transportation off site is not a "core service" provided by the owners for their guests.



Hello Again, Ron,

It is obvious to me that that particular piece of property was purchased for its proximity to Disney.  While Bonnet Creek is a wonderful place to "get away" to, the lure of Disney is hard to ignore.  Expecting that MOST people would come to BC and NOT want to visit a Disney park, is, IMHO, not realistic. (That is why a MINIMAL user fee for the shuttle might be tolerable.) There are many hotels and TS in the area that offer FREE shuttles to their guests.  I guess it is all relative.  And BC needs to look around and see what works for others.  

Anne


----------



## timeos2

Ginger's Mom said:


> Hey Brian,
> 
> I know it isn't free but the Disney transportation system is SUPERIOR to the Wyn Shuttle, you must admit.  I don't mind paying for something THAT convenient.  And when you trade-in to a Disney TS, thru RCI, I think you pay a mandatory $79 for a full week--a bargain compared to BC!!!!!!!
> 
> As a parent, when my kids  (and their friends) got to be teenagers, it sure was wonderful to have the Disney trans. to rely on.  We could all go our separate ways and get back to Ft. Wilderness successfully.  I imagine the same can be said for the DVC.
> 
> Anne



There are few things about Disney that are MORE annoying than the transportation system(s). And perhaps the worst is the bus system. I gladly PAY to avoid having to use it and dread the few areas where I can't (the monorail / boat to Magic Kingdom or any shuttle ride from the massive and inefficient parking areas). 

One of the great improvements of Universal over Disney in Orlando was the more confined space Universal had to deal with. The ramp garages being literally outside the park gates are far more convenient than the huge Disney flatlands of wasted space. I'm sure that today Disney would not use that energy wasting and more importantly inefficient / wasteful land use for parking. It is a bad design decision made when land and energy were cheap that hurts the overall experience today.  The other parts of the system seem designed to delay the guests from using expensive park attractions by having them tied up & waiting for needlessly slow & drawn out transport. No thanks. I'll walk or drive before setting foot on a Disney transport. Plus to say it has a value is crazy. They give it away to anyone that has even an expired ticket. Making anyone pay for it when they actually stay onsite or have a long term timeshare lease is gross double dipping. The theme park budgets already cover that cost.   Disney long ago turned attention to making money first and guests a distant second.


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## Ginger's Mom

timeos2 said:


> There are few things about Disney that are MORE annoying than the transportation system(s). And perhaps the worst is the bus system. I gladly PAY to avoid having to use it and dread the few areas where I can (the monorail / boat to Magic Kingdom or any shuttle ride from the massive and inefficient parking areas).
> 
> One of the great improvements of Universal over Disney in Orlando was the more confined space Universal had to deal with. The ramp garages being literally outside the park gates are far more convenient than the huge Disney flatlands of wasted space. I'm sure that today Disney would not use that energy wasting and more importantly inefficient / wasteful land use for parking. It is a bad design decision made when land and energy were cheap that hurts the overall experience today.  The other parts of the system seem designed to delay the guests from using expensive park attractions by having them tied up & waiting for needlessly slow & drawn out transport. No thanks. I'll walk or drive before setting foot on a Disney transport. Plus to say it has a value is crazy. They give it away to anyone that has even an expired ticket. Making anyone pay for it when they actually stay onsite or have a long term timeshare lease is gross double dipping. The theme park budgets already cover that cost.   Disney long ago turned attention to making money first and guests a distant second.



John,

WOW--I LOVE your idea of Disney building parking garages and letting us walk into the parks.  Parking garages give me the heeby-jeebies though--security is an issue, but I am sure Disney would have cameras.

I don't mind the Disney trans. system.  Having gone there since Ft. Wilderness had a TRAIN, everything has been an improvement (except the huge-mongous parking lots, as you pointed out.)  When I go to Disney, it is usually to relax and only a 2 hr. drive; we are not in a hurry, so the Disney buses are fine with us.  Everything is relative, I guess.  

Anne


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## tschwa2

Ginger's Mom said:


> Hello Again, Ron,
> 
> It is obvious to me that that particular piece of property was purchased for its proximity to Disney.  While Bonnet Creek is a wonderful place to "get away" to, the lure of Disney is hard to ignore.  Expecting that MOST people would come to BC and NOT want to visit a Disney park, is, IMHO, not realistic. (That is why a MINIMAL user fee for the shuttle might be tolerable.) There are many hotels and TS in the area that offer FREE shuttles to their guests.  I guess it is all relative.  And BC needs to look around and see what works for others.
> 
> Anne



Which other timeshares besides Disney offers free shuttles to the park?


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## JimMIA

Ginger's Mom said:


> And when you trade-in to a Disney TS, thru RCI, I think you pay a mandatory $79 for a full week--a bargain compared to BC!!!!!!!


You pay the regular RCI exchange fee + $95 to DVC at checkin.  DVC tries to make that sound like it's for transportation, but in reality it's just a "because we can" fee.  

The truth is ALL onsite guests at WDW get the free transportation from the airport to their resort, and also free shuttle buses within WDW and to DTD.  

In fact, anyone who walks up to any Disney bus can ride it whereever it goes.   MANY offsite visitors park at DTD and take the Disney buses from there.  On the return trip, they grab a Disney bus to SSR and walk to their cars at DTD.  Free parking, free buses, no $14 parking fee at the parks -- what's not to like!


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## bnoble

> And when you trade-in to a Disney TS, thru RCI, I think you pay a mandatory $79 for a full week--a bargain compared to BC!!!!!!!


Wasn't such a bargain for the poor DVC owner who paid for it though, was it?


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## Ginger's Mom

tschwa2 said:


> Which other timeshares besides Disney offers free shuttles to the park?




Very quickly, within about 2 mins., I found another post that says Summer Bay TS.  Also, I saw 6-8 motels that do--including Gaylord Palms.  If other motels and resorts can afford good customer service, why can't BC (and Wyndham, for all that matters)?


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## ronparise

Ginger's Mom said:


> Very quickly, within about 2 mins., I found another post that says Summer Bay TS.  Also, I saw 6-8 motels that do--including Gaylord Palms.  If other motels and resorts can afford good customer service, why can't BC (and Wyndham, for all that matters)?



The reason these places offer a free shuttle is to attract business. Orlando has a glut of hotel rooms and these places will do what they have to do to attract business. Summer Bay is not only a timeshare there is a hotel there to, and I suspect like the other hotels they offer the shuttle to keep the rooms filled

Remember Bonnet Creek is a timeshare not a hotel. The place could sit vacant and the bills would get still paid by the owners through their maintenance fees. There is no reason to add extra services to attract business. The only reason to add services is to improve sales...but I bet they do ok without the shuttle.

Of course  Bonnet Creek does not sit empty...it fills up.... all 1500+ suites. And I think less than a third of the folks staying there used the shuttle.  As has been noted by others the parking lots and even the garage near building four are always near capacity I wonder how many folks show up at Bonnet Creek without a car. I bet not many.  It seems to me that most of the people that go to the parks drive, and a lot of people (like me) dont go to the parks at all... 

The poa looking for a way to save a few bucks saw the shuttle as a prime target... Not needed to attract business and not used by the majority of owners.   I think they did the right thing imposing a modest user charge. I would be surprised if they didnt look at parking and wifi next


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## tschwa2

I used to own at Summer Bay but used it primarily as a RCI points week.  I looked at an old budget from 2010.  At that time for each unit (regardless of size) owners paid $4.99 for guest transportation.  They made guest pay for internet which didn't work well in at least 20% of the units and charged a $10 fee to allow access to the lake area (not sure if that is per person or per unit).  So although the transportation may be included other amenities are not.  I guess the HOA's prioritize what they are willing to pay for and what they are not.


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## Ginger's Mom

Ron,  good point--but how many of the "filled" rooms are actually rented out by the mega-renters?  Wouldn't a shuttle fee discourage people from staying there?

And yeah, you are right, the POA really doesn't HAVE to care--the MF are getting paid by the owners whether the POA runs off the renters or not.  Quite the conundrum.

Anne


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## ronparise

Ginger's Mom said:


> Ron,  good point--but how many of the "filled" rooms are actually rented out by the mega-renters?  Wouldn't a shuttle fee discourage people from staying there?
> 
> And yeah, you are right, the POA really doesn't HAVE to care--the MF are getting paid by the owners whether the POA runs off the renters or not.  Quite the conundrum.
> 
> Anne



Speaking as only a mini renter (Im fast approaching the mega renter mark though) I cant make any money at  Bonnet Creek.with or without a shuttle. Even with my Silver discount, its too many points for too little money.  (I wont tell you all my secrets but I rent 66000 point weekend reservations (50000 points with a discount) for as much as $1500.  Folks have to twist my arm to rent them space at Bonnet Creek when there are opportunities like that in the system.  In fact I dont go to Bonnet Creek anymore myself, since I discovered Vacation Village at Parkway will let me bring my dogs...Now there's a perk that means something (to me anyway)

And No! I dont think the shuttle means anything to folks that rent Wyndham reservations


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## JimMIA

RCI is apparently sending out an email saying the new fee is $5 *every time a guest boards a bus* -- in fact the email is actually worded exactly that way.

That, of course, would be $10 per round trip!  Anyone been there, done that, and know for sure????


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## luckyrose

It can get expensive for a family.


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## DeniseM

JimMIA said:


> RCI is apparently sending out an email saying the new fee is $5 *every time a guest boards a bus* -- in fact the email is actually worded exactly that way.
> 
> That, of course, would be $10 per round trip!  Anyone been there, done that, and know for sure????



I got that email today:



> Dear RCI Member:
> 
> We are writing to you concerning your upcoming RCI vacation to Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort in Lake Buena Vista, Florida.
> 
> The staff at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort notified us that effective immediately, *they have implemented a USD $5 per person shuttle fee.  Each guest is required to pay USD $5 each time they board the shuttle.  This takes the place of the mandatory USD$12 per day, per unit fee. *
> 
> We realize this may have an impact on your vacation and wanted to inform you of this situation in advance.  Since space availability is limited in the area you confirmed, we encourage you to retain your vacation.  Should you decide to cancel your stay, our standard cancellation guidelines will apply.


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## simpsontruckdriver

Actually, I think the $5 to ride the shuttle is FAR better than $12 mandatory fee. I mean, what if the person just goes to the resort to "get away" and NOT go to the parks? Why pay for what you won't use? So, do the math:

- for a couple (2), it would be $20 round-trip. Or, they could park their car at the park for $14. No car, they have the option.
- I'll bet the Sales Staff will come up with a way where the visitor gets a bus discount for sitting on their 2-hour tour.

FYI, to correct RonParise, Wyndham Bonnet Creek is BOTH hotel and timeshare. A year or so ago, the hotel was completed on-site. If you are entering the resort, the hotel is on the far right.

TS


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## ansmiley

We are currently at Bonnet Creek.  They are charging $5 per person per ROUND trip on the shuttles. Don't know why RCI would be saying per trip. Not sure how many people are using them but the buses we have seen seem to be pretty empty.


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## ronparise

simpsontruckdriver said:


> Actually, I think the $5 to ride the shuttle is FAR better than $12 mandatory fee. I mean, what if the person just goes to the resort to "get away" and NOT go to the parks? Why pay for what you won't use? So, do the math:
> 
> - for a couple (2), it would be $20 round-trip. Or, they could park their car at the park for $14. No car, they have the option.
> - I'll bet the Sales Staff will come up with a way where the visitor gets a bus discount for sitting on their 2-hour tour.
> 
> FYI, to correct RonParise, Wyndham Bonnet Creek is BOTH hotel and timeshare. A year or so ago, the hotel was completed on-site. If you are entering the resort, the hotel is on the far right.
> 
> TS



I know that there is a hotel and a timeshare at Bonnet creek, I didnt mean to imply otherwise.

But you cant check into the hotel at the timeshare desk(s)  and you cant check into the timeshare at the hotel. Heck, they even have seperate entrances from  Chelonia Parkway.  Their budgets are completely separate. and I suspect so is the way they handle the shuttle


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## luckyrose

I usually get a rental car anyway. I like to to to other parks. I like Sea World way better.


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## simpsontruckdriver

Actually, $5 for round-trip is even better. $15 for a family of 3 round-trip is only $1 more than parking at WDW. A couple would actually save money ($10). Like I said, the Sales Weasels... I mean staff... will probably use that as an incentive.

Wyndham Bonnet Creek (WVO) says, "Daily round-trip shuttle from the lobby to the Walt Disney World® Resort for a fee." (they no longer mentioned the $12/day fee).

TS


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## Pietin

I guess I'll see was the fees will be in December when we go.  I am not worrying till then.


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## simpsontruckdriver

And EXTREMELY "long in the tooth"

TS


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## MauiLea

ansmiley said:


> We are currently at Bonnet Creek.  They are charging $5 per person per ROUND trip on the shuttles. Don't know why RCI would be saying per trip. Not sure how many people are using them but the buses we have seen seem to be pretty empty.



I didn't realize that Bonnet Creek changed the shuttle fee from $12 per day to $ 5 pp.  Are you sure this is ROUND TRIP?

My RCI confirmation is ambiguous. It says " Resort Fees:Transportation fee is $5 U.S. dollars. Fee is per person, per use, for each trip off the reosrt grounds, even if on the same day." 

Does the $ 5 fee (one way or round trip) apply for a child 3 years old or younger?

We are trying to decide is our family of 4 should rent a car OR pay the shuttle fee.  We are only planning to stay at the resort OR go to the Disney Parks and Downtown Disney.


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## Rent_Share

Ginger's Mom said:


> John,
> 
> WOW--I LOVE your idea of Disney building parking garages and letting us walk into the parks.


 

http://www.nordenson.com/project.php?id=21

You ride escalators/elevators to a boarding station for the tram

The needed the existing parking lots for California Adventure and Downtown Disney


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## lilpooh108

Rent_Share said:


> http://www.nordenson.com/project.php?id=21
> 
> You ride escalators/elevators to a boarding station for the tram
> 
> The needed the existing parking lots for California Adventure and Downtown Disney



Random tidbit, Disney didn't own the property that the parking structure was eventually built on.  They had to convince a local family who'd owned it for a number of years to sell it to them.  I bet the $$$$$ offered was very convincing.  However, I wonder how much more they'd have offered today (after Carsland was built) if that family had held out for 10 more years.


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## paxsarah

MauiLea said:


> I didn't realize that Bonnet Creek changed the shuttle fee from $12 per day to $ 5 pp.  Are you sure this is ROUND TRIP?
> 
> My RCI confirmation is ambiguous. It says " Resort Fees:Transportation fee is $5 U.S. dollars. Fee is per person, per use, for each trip off the reosrt grounds, even if on the same day."
> 
> Does the $ 5 fee (one way or round trip) apply for a child 3 years old or younger?
> 
> We are trying to decide is our family of 4 should rent a car OR pay the shuttle fee.  We are only planning to stay at the resort OR go to the Disney Parks and Downtown Disney.



It is definitely $5 per round trip. Tickets must be purchased at the front desk or I think a few other locations at the resort. I didn't save the info sheet they gave us on our March trip - kids under 3 are free, but I can't remember if the wording was "under 3" or "3 and under."


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## Bourne

Bought one last week on our annual disney trip. Did not use it...was a backup incase we had to split up because of the little one. Our first non-Dvc stay without free shuttle.

The $5 is for round trip and is undated. Also, by looking at it, I guess you can even use it as two one ways on separate days should you choose to do so.


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## bnoble

> We are trying to decide is our family of 4 should rent a car OR pay the shuttle fee. We are only planning to stay at the resort OR go to the Disney Parks and Downtown Disney.


If it were me, I would rent a car.  The rental car plus $15ish daily theme park parking is likely to be a little bit more expensive than $20 daily shuttle plus a town car to/from the airport, but it will be much more convenient for your vacation overall.


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## Bourne

Especially with the car rental rates these days. 

Even during Easter week i.e. as busy as Christmas, we were able to get a full size for a week for $125 all inclusive in terminal. Off terminal, it was 75.


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