# Massanutten, Great Eastern has been paying, local association fees,not mandated



## gumbow719 (Jul 21, 2019)

To all Massanutten timeshare owners call them 540 289 9441, general number and ask Why for years they, the various timeshares have contributed to the local homeowner association fees that apparently have never been mandated to do so for a  very long time. Do I smell a Class  Action  ???Recently, GERM, Great Eastern Resort Management notified MPOA that all of a sudden they were not paying their share of MPOA (Massanutten Property Owners Association)assessments, CITING THEY ALLEDGLY DO NOT HAVE TO PAY. Now then I guess we as timeshare owners should get money back from maintence fees that included payments to MPOA that were not contractually obligated to pay??? Just food for thought..By the way, anticipate major changes next at Massresort because of GERM s actions., possibly no more using MPOA Stonewall Pool at all or be charged for the privilege...just an fyi


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## tschwa2 (Jul 21, 2019)

How much is the fee per interval/unit week?

Maybe I am misunderstanding the point.

Even if not contractually mandated if they were receiving a benefit like use of a pool or the benefit of the negotiated trash removal rate then owners are benefiting from the relationship with the local homeowner association.  

Owners aren't contractually mandated to pay for or receive paper towels  but that doesn't mean that there should be a class action to get back the money.

It sounds like an issue for the timeshare HOA to decide if going forward they want to continue to pay or to stop and what ramifications that would be.


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## escanoe (Jul 21, 2019)

Here is a related article. Seems to me the resort/HOAs should pay something for road upkeep, snow removal, etc. I am a Woodstone owner, and apparently we weren’t paying since we weren’t on the mountain — but everyone staying off mountain gets a pass to go up there.

https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Great-Eastern-withdrawing-timeshares-from-MPOA-512993011.html


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## gumbow719 (Jul 22, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> How much is the fee per interval/unit week?
> 
> Maybe I am misunderstanding the point.
> 
> ...


So if a company just arbitrarily decides to pay bills that they are not obligated to, then there is no recourse..I don't think so...that is misappropriating of funds and could be criminal...it is called payoffs


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## gumbow719 (Jul 22, 2019)

escanoe said:


> Here is a related article. Seems to me the resort/HOAs should pay something for road upkeep, snow removal, etc. I am a Woodstone owner, and apparently we weren’t paying since we weren’t on the mountain — but everyone staying off mountain gets a pass to go up there.
> 
> https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Great-Eastern-withdrawing-timeshares-from-MPOA-512993011.html


Well next year everyone coming into Massanutten may be subject to a fee, because I believe MPOA owns the main road..so to supplement our losses again maybe the ride in will cost all of Great Easterns timeshare owners to get to their condo or go up to Great Eastern outdoor pool, or the ski and activity area..this all still in the planning stage. I will try to remember to post updates. Effective date of changes Jan. 1st, 2020


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## tschwa2 (Jul 22, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> So if a company just arbitrarily decides to pay bills that they are not obligated to, then there is no recourse..I don't think so...that is misappropriating of funds and could be criminal...it is called payoffs


Let's say I buy a timeshare that is part of rci points and the contract says that for three years I am obligated to keep the unit in rci points paying an annual membership fee.  The first year was covered as part of the sale.  On years two and three I receive and pay the bill.  On the 4th year the same thing happens.  Maybe I forgot that I was obligated to remain in points only for the first 3 years.  Maybe I knew but liked the benefits I received for membership.  I paid and I received a benefit whether I had to or not.  What is the criminal aspect of it?  After re-uping and using my RCI benefits for another 5 years, would I be suing myself for mismanaging my funds for belonging to a group that I wasn't contractually obligated to belong to or would I be suing RCI for sending me an annual bill to belong to something I was not contractually obligated to belong to but chose to and benefited from.

The timeshare HOA's paid the dues to belong to the property owners HOA (full time owners) and received benefits- access, trash removal, snow removal, road upkeep etc.   If you want to sue the timeshare HOA's for choosing to belong to the property owners HOA when they didn't have to, I don't see you getting very far and if you do win, they will recover the fees you win by raising the fees for the timeshares to cover the liability for the timeshare HOA members.  

Massanutten is trying to make the MF's as low as possible for owners who don't use their ownership to stay at Massanutten and funnelling those charges to both owners and non owners who actually stay on a per usage basis.  This makes it cost more to stay at Massanutten then it did previously.  I would rather pay these fees as a part of my MF's because I like going to Massanutten, rather than paying MF's and another $56 for mandatory resort fees per lock off side and then now potentially another $1 or 2 everytime I go up the mountain to the pool, or ski or to a restaurant or to the recreation center or if I am staying on one of the mountain properties to access my unit.


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## escanoe (Jul 22, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> now potentially another $1 or 2 everytime I go up the mountain to the pool, or ski or to a restaurant or to the recreation center or if I am staying on one of the mountain properties to access my unit.



I have to think they will either start charging for a pass to go up and down the mountain for your stay OR hike the resort fee by said amount and continue their practice of giving everyone a pass. There is way too much traffic to stop everyone to charge a fee each time they go up. It will be interesting how this changes things.

The article says that "Great Eastern said in a notice they would pull Summit, Eagle Trace and Shenandoah Villas Timeshare Owners Associations from MPOA." If that is the case, I am going to assume that Woodstone and Regal Vistas (located just off the Mountain) were not paying fees to belong to MPOA. So as a Woodstone owner, was it these other HOAs that were subsidizing my use of the Mountain?


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## Tamaradarann (Jul 22, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> Let's say I buy a timeshare that is part of rci points and the contract says that for three years I am obligated to keep the unit in rci points paying an annual membership fee.  The first year was covered as part of the sale.  On years two and three I receive and pay the bill.  On the 4th year the same thing happens.  Maybe I forgot that I was obligated to remain in points only for the first 3 years.  Maybe I knew but liked the benefits I received for membership.  I paid and I received a benefit whether I had to or not.  What is the criminal aspect of it?  After re-uping and using my RCI benefits for another 5 years, would I be suing myself for mismanaging my funds for belonging to a group that I wasn't contractually obligated to belong to or would I be suing RCI for sending me an annual bill to belong to something I was not contractually obligated to belong to but chose to and benefited from.
> 
> The timeshare HOA's paid the dues to belong to the property owners HOA (full time owners) and received benefits- access, trash removal, snow removal, road upkeep etc.   If you want to sue the timeshare HOA's for choosing to belong to the property owners HOA when they didn't have to, I don't see you getting very far and if you do win, they will recover the fees you win by raising the fees for the timeshares to cover the liability for the timeshare HOA members.
> 
> Massanutten is trying to make the MF's as low as possible for owners who don't use their ownership to stay at Massanutten and funnelling those charges to both owners and non owners who actually stay on a per usage basis.  This makes it cost more to stay at Massanutten then it did previously.  I would rather pay these fees as a part of my MF's because I like going to Massanutten, rather than paying MF's and another $56 for mandatory resort fees per lock off side and then now potentially another $1 or 2 everytime I go up the mountain to the pool, or ski or to a restaurant or to the recreation center or if I am staying on one of the mountain properties to access my unit.



Without more information about the entire agreement and actual dollar amounts involved it is impossible to grasp if this is a real problem to confront or just something that was agreed upon to benefit the resort.  We don't own at Massanutten but have stayed there and it is a nice extremely large resort with concessions all over the place including what I consider a very expensive waterpark on resort property.  If I was going to get involved with any kind of dispute with the agreement with the local association I would want to also look into the details of all of the agreements with the concessions.  My question would be, have all of these agreements been made in the best economic interest and benefit to the owners of the resort.  When I was a department head before I retired I entered into contracts and agreements with vendors and other departments. In those agreements I always worked toward the best interest of the University and my Department as if my budget and  expenditures I made was my own money.  At times others don't always operate that way if it is not their money.


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## gumbow719 (Jul 22, 2019)

escanoe said:


> I have to think they will either start charging for a pass to go up and down the mountain for your stay OR hike the resort fee by said amount and continue their practice of giving everyone a pass. There is way too much traffic to stop everyone to charge a fee each time they go up. It will be interesting how this changes things.
> 
> The article says that "Great Eastern said in a notice they would pull Summit, Eagle Trace and Shenandoah Villas Timeshare Owners Associations from MPOA." If that is the case, I am going to assume that Woodstone and Regal Vistas (located just off the Mountain) were not paying fees to belong to MPOA. So as a Woodstone owner, was it these other HOAs that were subsidizing my use of the Mountain?


The timeshares that were in the letter from Great Eastern were paying MPOA Fees but over all these years apparently were paying when they didn't have to. It seems that their not paying will greatly effect what each homeowner pays, so the difference or increase must be made up. So things are bring discussed to raise the revenue lost from Great Eastern or even dismantling the Police as mostly they do security home checks not much actual Police work to the tune of $750,000 a year..eliminate them and even loosing Great Easterns percentage the MPOA actually trims its budget. When the resort was way out in the sticks some 30 years ago Police were needed, we are not in the sticks anymore, can use Great Eastern Security. Check www.massanuttenvillage.com scroll to Police and see their stats..little police work


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## gumbow719 (Jul 22, 2019)

escanoe said:


> I have to think they will either start charging for a pass to go up and down the mountain for your stay OR hike the resort fee by said amount and continue their practice of giving everyone a pass. There is way too much traffic to stop everyone to charge a fee each time they go up. It will be interesting how this changes things.
> 
> The article says that "Great Eastern said in a notice they would pull Summit, Eagle Trace and Shenandoah Villas Timeshare Owners Associations from MPOA." If that is the case, I am going to assume that Woodstone and Regal Vistas (located just off the Mountain) were not paying fees to belong to MPOA. So as a Woodstone owner, was it these other HOAs that were subsidizing my use of the Mountain?


It will be a lot more than a dollar or two, plus if you want to use MPOA pool, if you even will be allowed..it will cost you $$$$$


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## tschwa2 (Jul 22, 2019)

The MPOA fee in 2019 for a Summit 4BR lock off unit was $10.77


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## gumbow719 (Jul 23, 2019)

tschwa2 said:


> The MPOA fee in 2019 for a Summit 4BR lock off unit was $10.77


There are over 725 timeshare units that paid MPOA OVER $400, 000 in Association dues..725 into 400, 000 or $551.00 per timeshare unit divided by say 52 weeks is your $10.77 a week or thereabouts...


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## gumbow719 (Jul 23, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> There are over 725 timeshare units that paid MPOA OVER $400, 000 in Association dues..725 into 400, 000 or $551.00 per timeshare unit divided by say 52 weeks is your $10.77 a week or thereabouts...


This is an update on information I want to share apparently there will be no tolls to enter Massanutten..FINALLY WE RECEIVED AN ANSWER FROM A BOARD MEMBER , it is like pulling teeth to get any information....MPOA does own Masanutten drive (up the mountain ) but Great Eastern has the Right to use the road....so no way Great Eastern can be charged...Will try to keep everyone updated, IF our Board begins to get transparent...


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## gumbow719 (Jul 28, 2019)

Posting error


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## gumbow719 (Aug 9, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Posting error


Update MPOA Board meeting Aug 13th to discuss GERM..GERM just started construction by clearing forest on road at snake curve leading up the mountain..plan is 8 years long to build 900 timeshare units THEN move and develop the Western side of the mountain..goodbye peace and serenity..big money hungry business, GERM, Great Eastern Resort Management..


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## escanoe (Aug 9, 2019)

The serene part of the Massanutten range is protected in George Washington National Forest. I knew they were trying to build some more Regal Vista type units on the Mountain. I almost think they will need an entrance on the Western slope if they want to develop over there. That will be a lot of driving.


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## gumbow719 (Aug 14, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Update MPOA Board meeting Aug 13th to discuss GERM..GERM just started construction by clearing forest on road at snake curve leading up the mountain..plan is 8 years long to build 900 timeshare units THEN move and develop the Western side of the mountain..goodbye peace and serenity..big money hungry business, GERM, Great Eastern Resort Management..


Update open forum meeting on 8/13.... MPOA working on loss revenue but issue on the front burner is Incorporating Massanutten into it's own Town....big changes....not easy but could become reality within about 2 years of hardwork...lots of $$$$ benefits..


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## escanoe (Aug 15, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> MPOA working on loss revenue but issue on the front burner is Incorporating Massanutten into it's own Town....big changes....not easy but could become reality within about 2 years of hardwork...lots of $$$$ benefits..



I don’t get as upset as some about all the fees at Massanutten. (While many of the fees are annoying, I recognize some upside to the extreme a la cartel model.) I am not sure another jurisdiction covering the resort with the ability to tax would be well received, though.


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## gumbow719 (Aug 28, 2019)

Latest info Great Eastern owner of Massanutten resort is against the local owners of private residences MPOA becoming an Incorporated Town.....I will update over the next year, if anything earth shattering happens !!!


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## escanoe (Aug 28, 2019)

How did Great Eastern express their opposition? Did they give a reason why? I suspect concern of municipal regulation or taxation the town may place on the resort, but am curious about what is going on.


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## gumbow719 (Aug 29, 2019)

In writing to me via email...from their Business Office....just not good for business


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## Miss Marty (Oct 12, 2019)

*(WHSV) 2019 News Article
MASSANUTTEN, VIRGINIA*

Great Eastern Resort Management notified the Massanutten Property Owners Association about a month ago they would be withdrawing timeshare units by the end of the year.

https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Great-Eastern-withdrawing-timeshares-from-MPOA-512993011.html

The board will go over the pros and cons of each suggestion, consult with legal counsel and consider finances before meeting back on _August 13 at 6 p.m_. The newly formed task force, of three community members and two board members, will also come with written updates.

Any Updates within the last 60 days
or since the August 13th meeting?

Massanutten Property Owners and Timeshare Owners can keep up with whats happening online. The MPOA Minutes for meetings are posted on the web as soon as they are APPROVED by the Board of Directors.

Massanutten Property Owners Association
Board of Directors Members and Meetings

http://www.massanuttenvillage.com/wpprod/


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## gumbow719 (Oct 22, 2019)

Heres the latest..the MPOA homeowners preliminary budget for 2020 is up from 650 to 810 for each homeowner plus these brainiacs in MPOA still project at 168,000 deficit for 2020 despite the increase..instead of raising it more to cover all deficits...
        The plan to Incoporate into a Town is progressing very,very,well..When we become a Town next year we get all the money GE collects from restaurant taxes,lodging taxes etc  We, The Town of Massanutten will control GE..


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## pedro47 (Oct 22, 2019)

gumbow719, will the new town have a city manager, a mayor and City Council members, their own Human Resources, fire and police departments, etc, etc. ? Where is the money coming from to pay these employees?

Never underestimate GE motives?


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## gumbow719 (Oct 22, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> gumbow719, will the new town have a city manager, a mayor and City Council members, their own Human Resources, fire and police departments, etc, etc. ? Where is the money coming from to pay these employees?
> 
> Never underestimate GE motives?


From all the information I have read is about 1.2 million that now goes to the county will be ours, on top of that the state will give us 800,000 for maintaining our own roads and other perks..Wish us luck....we take in from our own amenities close to 1,000,000 year as well...As a Town we will pay zero assessments for a full service community....All those timeshare visitors bring lots of money to spend..as for Police already have our own police force., fire dept within 5 miles..come buy a home here zip 22840 yes on city council, major whatever it takes, we will be in the drivers seat..


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## Miss Marty (Oct 22, 2019)

*
McGaheysville Fire Company is located on US Route 33 *
(Spotswood Trail)  in eastern Rockingham County, Virginia.

McGaheysville Fire Company operates 3 fire engines, 1 ladder truck, 1 brush truck and several SERV units along with a utility piece. The Virginia Department of Forestry also houses their fire dozer at the station.

The Four Seasons Massanutten Resort, brings a large influx of residents and visitors into our first due area also. The resort continues to grow at a fast pace along with the subdivisions and industry in our surrounding area.

http://www.mvfd80.org/content/president/

*
Elkton Volunteer Fire Company*

Primary coverage area includes the Town of Elkton and the surrounding area. Our border to the north is is the Rockingham and Page county line. The 3500 block of South Eastside Highway (US Route 340) is the southern border.

Going west we cover to the intersection of Spotswood Trial 
(US Route 33) and East Point Road (State Route 602). 

Heading east we cover up to the Rockingham and Greene County line on Spotswood Trial, including Skyline Drive from the Loft Mountain Overlook to Big Meadows

Elkton Police Department

The Town of Elkton police department consists of 6 full-time officers, 2 part-time officers and an administrative assistant.  Elkton police dept conducts coverage 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.


The above is in reference to a previous statement on page one
"as for Police already have our own police force., fire dept within 5 miles"


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## pedro47 (Oct 22, 2019)

Sounds liked you are ready to become a “Town.”


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## escanoe (Oct 22, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> .... 800,000 for maintaining our own roads and other perks..Wish us luck......



Are there any roads now within what will be the incorporated city that are outside the gate of a gated community? It may be hard to spend public money for a road inside a gated community or a police service that only polices inside a gated private community.


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## escanoe (Oct 22, 2019)

gumbow719 said:


> Heres the latest..the MPOA homeowners preliminary budget for 2020 is up from 650 to 810 for each homeowner plus these brainiacs in MPOA still project at 168,000 deficit for 2020 despite the increase..instead of raising it more to cover all deficits...
> The plan to Incoporate into a Town is progressing very,very,well..When we become a Town next year we get all the money GE collects from restaurant taxes,lodging taxes etc  We, The Town of Massanutten will control GE..



A few questions from this.

1) If there is concern about the "brainiacs" running things now, will the town have a better electorate and more qualified group of public officials elected?

2) MPOA is a private entity. Are they planning on future public (taxpayer) money being used to pay back this private entity for the deficit it is running this year?

3) I assume the town will not "control" GE anymore that any town controls a person or business entity in any town. Property owners right can be tricky, and I imagine the GE legal team could easily have some lengthy, expensive battles with the new town in court.


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## gumbow719 (Oct 24, 2019)

escanoe said:


> A few questions from this.
> 
> 1) If there is concern about the "brainiacs" running things now, will the town have a better electorate and more qualified group of public officials elected?
> 
> ...


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## gumbow719 (Oct 24, 2019)

To answer any questions anyone has,  read www.townofmassanutten.org   click on 2019 updates   for latest.   Total number of signatures to be forwarded to Richmond Assembly are still being tabulated. Will post as soon as known..


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## gumbow719 (Nov 6, 2019)

pedro47 said:


> Sounds liked you are ready to become a “Town.”


Latest update, we have obtained in excess of 860 signatures and still obtaining more from  registered voters in favor of Incorporating into a Town, only needed 750. Now onto Richmond with the help of our local delegates...


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## pedro47 (Nov 6, 2019)

Are all those 860 signatures legal residents & registered voters of Massanutten ? Please double check before you head to Richmond, VA.
Also, they can only sign the petition once.

Finally!!!  Remember this their will be new General Assembly members sworn in January 2020 in The House & The Senate.

You need to do your homework now; toward those new members in The General Assembly.

Good Luck.


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## escanoe (Jan 22, 2020)

Here is a recent news story on the the effort of the Massanutten community to incorporate. Their delegate in the state house has decided not to introduce legislation to incorporate the community at this time. 

When I was there this past weekend, they were not staffing the entry point to check that everyone entering the gated mountain area had a pass.

https://www.whsv.com/content/news/M...opes-incorporation-is-possible-566710521.html

Gene Hauze and others in Massanutten are still hoping Massanutten will be incorporated into a town, but it's unclear if a lawmaker will sponsor the special act during the upcoming General Assembly session.​    ..........
Hauze said after conversations with his local lawmakers, Delegate Tony Wilt (R-Va. 26th House District) has decided not to bring it forward this year. Wilt said after discussion, he thought waiting was the best decision.​


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