# Boss suddenly says can no longer take 2 weeks off!



## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2016)

Just curious on input....

I am 60 years old and have worked my entire life full-time- no mommy breaks or anything. I have been at my current job for 11 years. Last year for the first time at this current job I took 2 weeks off in a row because I acquired a free timeshare ownership week 31 to tack onto my week 30. I told my boss about it. BTW-I always by February send an email to my bosses about all the time off I have planned for the year. If we don't take our PTO  time off we lose it. 

I pretty much work alone out in the field and no one has to fill in for me when I am gone except to pick up some papers in the morning from another office nearby. I am independent. 

I do not have a crucial job in my estimation. I am not a nurse or a radiology tech or a front desk person. I am in health care marketing.

I was away week 30 and 31. I was also off Memorial week (to take care of some things at home and to go to Quebec City a few days) and the following week (my timeshare floater).

Anyway, my immediate boss calls me into his office today and asks what time off I am taking the rest of the year. I tell him the day after Thanksgiving and XMAS week. (Mind you- I never take any time off from January 2nd until at least Memorial Day - we only get 5 holidays off as it is. This past winter I only took one day off between Jan and May for a funeral.)

I never call in sick. I get a total of 28 PTO days. Was supposed to be 32 but they changed the policy way back when and cut it to 28 max accumulation after so many years of service.

So then he proceeds to tell me I can no longer take back to back vacations. I was stunned and didn't ask why. I wish I had. But I did tell him I own 2 weeks back to back timeshares in the summer and that the bigger boss knows about it and I cannot change it. That is always when I take vacation and now it is 2 weeks instead of one. He said he will have to see next year and he will have to talk to the bigger boss about it.

I mention this to a few coworkers, many who take 2 weeks in a row themselves- some "2" 2 week vacations per year. Not one of them said to me that he spoke to them as well or that he didn't say anything to them. So now I am thinking- was it only me? I know the front desk people usually can't do it ( they are treated horribly in terms of scheduling)but I am categorized with the nurses and techs in our radiology center and we have more PTO days and so on. One tech is taking two weeks starting next week.

My husband said maybe they are trying to get rid of me. But why would they even bring it up now if it isn't until next year? 

Anyone have any insight? What am I missing?


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## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

This is a question for HR.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> This is a question for HR.



LOL! No HR in our place! By the way, I have always been well- liked by my boss and the bigger boss and coworkers- I know- not that that means anything. My salary and many others' have been capped for years- so no raises or reviews even.

Many long time employees have quit in the past few years- several this year. I have been hanging on because this is a rural area and not many jobs and at my age I do not want to start over anywhere. I have always said this is going to be my last employer until I retire or they fire me or I quit.


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## Big Matt (Aug 18, 2016)

My guess is that he's fully within his rights to tell you not to take two weeks off.  Most plans that I've seen give management the discretion to limit vacation.

Please read your company policies and see what you are entitled to.  Could be that your manager has no rights to do this, but I doubt it.


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## Elan (Aug 18, 2016)

Need to find out if it's company-wide (doesn't sound like it), and if not, what the criteria is and who it applies to.  Your boss might be in violation of employment laws.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2016)

I can't understand what his reasoning would even be. Like- why would he care if I take 2 weeks instead of one. It really doesn't affect anything at the office. I am racking my brain trying to figure it out. I walked in this morning and then he said can I talk to you and I said let me put my stuff down and I went right into his office and then he asked about the time off for the remainder of the year and then breaks this news to me.


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## DeniseM (Aug 18, 2016)

Could some busy-body have complained about it?


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## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2016)

Big Matt said:


> My guess is that he's fully within his rights to tell you not to take two weeks off.  Most plans that I've seen give management the discretion to limit vacation.
> 
> Please read your company policies and see what you are entitled to.  Could be that your manager has no rights to do this, but I doubt it.



New York is an "at will employer" state.  Anyway, if it comes down to it I will ignore it and just put my time off plans for 2017 in next February like I always do and if he says I cannot have the two weeks off in a row, I plan to just give him different dates and  put in for all my time off before July- separate weeks and all that and then resign in July and go to my timeshares. I will not tolerate this after working hard all my life. 2 lousy weeks in a row- life is short! What is he kidding me? 

What if I wanted to go to Europe/Italy (on my bucket list) for a few weeks before I retire- (which I never have been except a week in Scotland) which I can't even get SS until age 66. I am supposed to wait until I could be using a walker? LOL!


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## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2016)

DeniseM said:


> Could some busy-body have complained about it?



I guess it's possible, but like I said- some other people take two weeks in a row.  Heaven forbid!

Maybe the woman/supervisor that was getting the papers I usually pick up in the morning?


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## turkel (Aug 18, 2016)

I would ask to see the written company policy. If there isn't one I would find out if this "new" policy applies to all.

If you are singled out I would cry age discrimination and go with your plan to quit in July. It is unfair employer practices they lead to good employees resorting to extreme tactics to get deserved time off....hint hint soft tissue damage your back hurts and you get a doctors note for your 2 weeks off :hysterical:

Good luck


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## slip (Aug 18, 2016)

If there was a change like that a memo should have went out to the whole company. Ours says you can only get more than two weeks consecutively with management approval. I got it one year and went to Maui and Kauai. It was great. I would have trouble getting it off again but I think I could but DW can't so I don't ask.

I don't see how it matters. You get to take all your days anyway. The coverage over the year is still the same.


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## VacationForever (Aug 18, 2016)

You need to read your handbook on policies and procedures carefully.  Number of Vacation time and Paid Time Off days are not mandated by law but have to be consistently applied to the same class of employees.  HR policies usually will have a clause that says application for taking vacation time and paid time off have to be approved.  

My experience tells me that your management has the right to not approve 2 weeks off in a row.  However, you should very nicely "appeal" his decision, meaning, have a meeting with him and explain your situation as to why you need 2 weeks off in a row, to the extent that you are comfortable in disclosing personal situations.  It hardly ever pays off to go head-on with management.  

Unless he is totally unreasonable, which some people are, he may reverse his decision.


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## Barnaby (Aug 18, 2016)

G'day mpermilia, i see a lot of encouragement to check labour laws, regulations and company policy, but don't forget to balance all of that against what is important to you physically, emotionally, psychologically, and of course financially. And following on from big matts comment, remember that if management have the discretion to limit vacation time, THEY ALSO HAVE THE DISCRETION TO EXTEND IT! Good luck.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2016)

slip said:


> If there was a change like that a memo should have went out to the whole company. Ours says you can only get more than two weeks consecutively with management approval. I got it one year and went to Maui and Kauai. It was great. I would have trouble getting it off again but I think I could but DW can't so I don't ask.
> 
> I don't see how it matters. You get to take all your days anyway. The coverage over the year is still the same.




Ha! ha! This company doesn't send out no stinkin' memos! In fact, there is a major lack of communication.

I do have to look in the policy book. I do not think there is anything about it in there

And yes- it really shouldn't matter. It makes no sense.


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## Ty1on (Aug 18, 2016)

Barnaby said:


> G'day mpermilia, i see a lot of encouragement to check labour laws, regulations and company policy, but don't forget to balance all of that against what is important to you physically, emotionally, psychologically, and of course financially. And following on from big matts comment, remember that if management have the discretion to limit vacation time, THEY ALSO HAVE THE DISCRETION TO EXTEND IT! Good luck.



I see what you did there!


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## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2016)

Barnaby said:


> G'day mpermilia, i see a lot of encouragement to check labour laws, regulations and company policy, but don't forget to balance all of that against what is important to you physically, emotionally, psychologically, and of course financially. And following on from big matts comment, remember that if management have the discretion to limit vacation time, THEY ALSO HAVE THE DISCRETION TO EXTEND IT! Good luck.



Yes- I know. And good point. I don't really care what the policy book says, but I will look at it. Though he never said anything about it until AFTER I took my vacation. The point is it is unfair and unreasonable. I can barely stand going to work every day as it is- the schedule of it. But I am a strong person and persistent and I do what I have to do.

I think of people who have summers off and lots of holidays and vacation and sick time and pensions and all that good stuff. Heck- I do not even take the health insurance with this employer so he is saving money on me. I get the capped 28 PTO days and the 5 holidays and a 401k match and the capped paycheck that will never go up.

And I can't take 2 weeks off in a row?  I would rather be poor at this point in my life than put up with that!


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## WinniWoman (Aug 18, 2016)

turkel said:


> I would ask to see the written company policy. If there isn't one I would find out if this "new" policy applies to all.
> 
> If you are singled out I would cry age discrimination and go with your plan to quit in July. It is unfair employer practices they lead to good employees resorting to extreme tactics to get deserved time off....hint hint soft tissue damage your back hurts and you get a doctors note for your 2 weeks off :hysterical:
> 
> Good luck



Well- guess what? Some of my friends have suggested the same! LOL!


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## DaveNV (Aug 18, 2016)

At the hospital where I work I had a previous Manager who liked to mess with people, as a power trip.  He once tried to tell me I couldn't take my PTO unless I left a minimum of 40 hours on the books after my vacation. In other words, if I wanted 40 hours off, I'd have to have 80 hours on the books before I left.  

I looked him right in the eye, and said, "Sorry, but I don't believe you.  Show me that in writing."  

He coughed and sputtered some, and then said, "Well, that *should* be the policy, because some people get back off vacation and have no PTO time left at all."  

I asked why that was any of his concern - the PTO is theirs to take. If they get back with zero time left, why is that an issue?  Our PTO is accrued every pay period, so within two weeks they'd have at least a few hours on the books.

He couldn't give me a reason, and changed the subject.  What a PITA he was as Manager.  I was delighted when a formal meeting was called, and he was unceremoniously dumped as our Manager, right in front of the twenty-some people he'd managed.  They replaced him with a Temporary Contract employee until a permanent replacement was recruited.  Obviously the Big Boss didn't think much of him as manager either. 

Mary Ann, I'm not saying your Manager is as much of a jerk as mine was, but I'd ask him to please explain why suddenly, after all these years, you can't take off your two weeks, when other employees do it often, and sometimes more than once a year. Your time off is planned months in advance, and there is no hardship when you're gone.  So why not?  Maybe he's just fishing to see if you'll object.

Good luck!

Dave


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## Icc5 (Aug 18, 2016)

*Communicate*

You say you get along good with your boss.  Ask if you could talk, find out if there is a specific reason, see if you can negotiate?  Is it just at that time of year?  Get the facts and go from there.  Maybe your boss was just having a bad day.


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## Luanne (Aug 18, 2016)

I always said [to myself] if I couldn't take my vacation when I wanted I'd quit.  Luckily I never had to put that to the test.  I hope you can work this out.


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## am1 (Aug 18, 2016)

I understand why a company may not want someone to take two weeks off in a row.  It can be a lot more to catch up with when one gets back.  Other companies may prefer employees to take longer vacations so there are less disruptions in the year.  

I do not know the company policy but would think you would be best to leave the company.  It does not seem like you enjoy it even before this.


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## ronparise (Aug 18, 2016)

I think Dave has it right, it's a power play, it always is 

That or age discrimination. My brother worked for a major company He made pretty good money and some great retirement benefits coming to him if he could make it to 30 years. They made his last 5 miserable. He thinks it was done to make him quit or to manufacture a reason to fire him. They could hire two guys for what they paid him and they wouldn't have to pay those retirement benefits. He stuck it out and is happily retired now

I tell this story to  encourage you to not act rashly. Figure out what they have to gain and what you might lose  if you quit.


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## elaine (Aug 18, 2016)

Sounds like someone complained or something hit the fan while you were gone. Do you check in while on vacation? Access your emails, etc.? That is somewhat expected now days. Do you want to keep your job? If so, I would politely let your big boss know that Mr. X questioned you about vacation, and that although you have made your non-cancelable reservation for the next year, you are willing to only take 1 week at a time the following year, "if it is in the best interest of the company...." That's 2018, and they might have forgotten about it by then, or the mid-boss might be gone. Worst case, you will need to trade or internally exchange the other week for that year, or give it to a friend to use, etc. I would also offer to check in by phone, email, etc. "to stay on top of things while away." 
At 60+, it might be hard to find another job. In an "at will" state, your post could be downsized, eliminated, merged, etc. Sure you could contest and fight it--but it's pretty hard and probably a lot more hassle than forgoing your 2nd week almost 2 years away.


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## sue1947 (Aug 18, 2016)

I'd have a calm conversation with the boss to find out his reasons.  It may not be the 2 weeks, but rather the 4 weeks you took in 2 months.  You took off Memorial Day week and the following week, so early June and then 2 weeks in late July.  Maybe the timing was too much too soon.   There might be a solution here that allows the 2 weeks in July with the rest of your vacation spread out more.  Is Mem Day to Labor Day a busy time in your business?  Are sales down or pressure up etc.  Are there a lot of people in the office who want those same summer weeks off and they want to make sure somebody is around?  Have that conversation with him to see if there is a reasonable solution. Maybe the other 2 week can be taken at a time when others in the office aren't competing for the same week off.  

Then you can make the decision on whether it's a power play or age discrimination and whether you want to quit in July or not.  I retired early at 53 because the workplace had become so negative.  I'd rather live on less than live like that and it has worked out well for me.  However, you have to look at your own situation and what you can afford both financially and mentally.  

Two years before I quit/retired, they started layoffs and I started living like I was retired; I called it thrifty mode.  I have always been thrifty, but I really looked at everything with an eye towards need vs want.   I managed to save a lot of money during that time which helped when I finally pulled the plug.  I know you have spent a lot of time in the past year or so analyzing finances etc so you might already be doing this.   It will help give you the freedom to choose later.


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## alwysonvac (Aug 18, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> So then he proceeds to tell me I can no longer take back to back vacations. I was stunned and didn't ask why. I wish I had. But I did tell him I own 2 weeks back to back timeshares in the summer and that the bigger boss knows about it and I cannot change it. That is always when I take vacation and now it is 2 weeks instead of one. He said he will have to see next year and he will have to talk to the bigger boss about it.





> By the way, I have always been well- liked by my boss and the bigger boss and coworkers- I know- not that that means anything. My salary and many others' have been capped for years- so no raises or reviews even.



I would play dumb and mention it in passing to the bigger boss. 

Some examples:
Say something joking like "_I hope you approve my two week time off next year. xxx tells me we can't take back to back weeks off and that he needs to talk with you about it. I'm really looking forward to using my 2nd timeshare week for back to back stays )) _"

Or ask it as a question "_xxx just told me that I can't take back to back weeks off. When does that policy become effective. I was really looking forward to using my back to back summer timeshare weeks () _"


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## uop1497 (Aug 19, 2016)

I am not sure if each company has their own policy regarding taking vacation. However, DH once told me that his boss does not like him to take a long 2-3 weeks vacation . I think the reason if an employee take off only 1 week, the week go by very fast and coverage is not an issue . If employee take off 2-3 weeks, things can get delay easily and work progress may not go smoothly as planned .

We plan to take 3 weeks off in December, I am not sure whether Dh's  boss will approve or not. DH will submit his request and we will know in a few days.

In my opinion, even though there is a policy which clearly say how many PTO or vacation an employee can have per year, the manager ( or boss) has the power to approval the vacation before employee can take his or her time off . Employee can request for time off, but if the manager say No. Then employee can not take off .


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## Talent312 (Aug 19, 2016)

One day, our office manager decided he'd find out if the secretaries at a remote location were taking un-approved leave. He pulled door key-card records which showed they were not showing up as scheduled. At the confrontation, they explained to him that many times, employees did not use their keys becuz another one opened the door, and besides, there were three doors into the building and he'd only pulled the records for one.

He was later fired for fudging the records of an employee with whom he was having an affair. He was covering for her working a 2nd job during her normal work hours. This was discovered when a secretary saw her at a restaurant during lunch, only she was not dining, but rather working as the hostess.

_I am not making this up._
.


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## MuranoJo (Aug 19, 2016)

Based on what you've described, I wouldn't jump to the next level of management without going back to your direct manager and asking to discuss this again.  Come right out and ask if this is because of the two closely-timed two-week absences, or try to drill down to what's triggering this.  If the mgr. is vague, that's when I'd start to suspect age/time at job/other issues.

My experience with employers is vacation time always has to be approved based on company need, though I'm sure there may be exceptions out there.


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## Sugarcubesea (Aug 19, 2016)

I had the same issue at my company, I basically had to beg to take 2 weeks off in a row. When I started at my company I told that that I will on occassion take 2 weeks back to back off and was told not a problem.  I get 5 weeks of vacation a year.

Since I've been gone, I've handled 3 issues and my boss is freaking out and I'm sure he will tell me that I can no longer take 2 weeks off back to back again.  This boss believes that you should not take any of your 5 weeks of vacation. Last year, he took 5 days of his 5 weeks and bitched non stop how he lost all of this vacation time..

Our big boss has no issue with me or my boss taking time off as long as everything is taken care of.

I work hard, I work 10 to 12 hour days on a daily basis, so if a company does not treat me well, they do not deserve my talents and I will move on.

Good Luck and you should be able to take your 2 weeks vacation...




mpumilia said:


> LOL! No HR in our place! By the way, I have always been well- liked by my boss and the bigger boss and coworkers- I know- not that that means anything. My salary and many others' have been capped for years- so no raises or reviews even.
> 
> Many long time employees have quit in the past few years- several this year. I have been hanging on because this is a rural area and not many jobs and at my age I do not want to start over anywhere. I have always said this is going to be my last employer until I retire or they fire me or I quit.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

All very good input. Thanks.

I think in my mind that something triggered this and it has nothing to do with my job duties per se other than I have to pick up some papers in the morning and another woman had to be sent out to do that- but she did it on her way into work.

Believe me when I tell you I do not have a critical job-in fact it is pretty lame. I rarely get a phone call from a doctors office when away. I did this time and I answered my cell and it was no big deal- I took care of it. They had a simple question nothing urgent. During the summer most of the docs and some of their staff are also away on vacation. So no biggie. 

Our numbers were down big time this July over last July- but me being away one week in July and the following week in August has nothing to do with it.  Last year I was off the same two weeks. So that kind of rational wouldn't hold either. It is the healthcare market right now- pretty bad with insurances and high deductibles.

I also answered like the one or two emails I got- again- I get very few. When I say I do not have a real important job I am not kidding. It is an intangible type of work- I am like a public relations person and in person customer service rep. No one needs to fill in for me except to pick up those papers in the morning and there are various solutions to that- not a big deal that I can see. So the supervisor picks them up on her way to work- big deal!

So- maybe someone in a critical job- like a technician or front desk asked for two weeks off and he denied it and then that person referenced me possibly? I am on a mission to try to figure this out.

In my estimation, this is a non negotiable thing. No way will I exchange to go elsewhere.  I acquired that second week last year for free for the specific reason to add it to our other week (which we have only exchanged once since 1999!) and spend more time unwinding and to see our son whom we rarely see and scout out places to retire to in NH and that is what we intend to do. We love going to our resorts and those areas and they are only two ours apart with the same check in and check out time.

As for taking the "two" two week vacations this past June- it is just the way it fell. Not something I have ever done or intend to do again- maybe. But so what if one year I decide to do that again? I trudge through the winter day in and day out without a day off for 5 months or more! The nice weather comes and I am going away! As long as mine and my husband's  health holds out and I don't have to use my time for that! Even so, in that case I would still want to take my vacation! I probably would quit because they do not allow days off without pay. Next year we are hoping to go to Colorado in June for just one week. I guess I am just so done with being controlled.

These companies do things to themselves, They force you to take all your time in one year. They won't pay you for days you do not take. Then they complain when you take it. Everyone wants the nice weather season off-of course. Why should people have to take weeks they can't do anything with?They have eliminated separate sick time and personal days for emergencies. They cut your lunch to a half hour where you do not even have time to leave the building to get a lunch or take a walk. 

One other thing I forgot to mention- the boss always says we accrue vacation time every year beginning in January- so we start every year with ZERO- so technically none of us have a lot of it the first 6 months or so. So again- what do they expect? 

So, I am not going to bring it up to either boss. I am thinking maybe the bigger boss doesn't even know about it and if I say something to him the boss who spoke to me might get ticked off. Sometimes they have corporate meetings early on Thursday mornings before I come in so I wonder if something got brought up there. I think maybe I will fish around discreetly just because I have a need to know and just put in for my time next year like I always do and see what happens. Maybe he will forget about it or let it slide. If not- goodbye. (as long as my husband still has his job! LOL!).


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## mpizza (Aug 19, 2016)

I would let it go for now, since we're talking next year.  Sounds like the grouping of "back to back" PTO this summer highlighted how much you do and your presence was missed - take it as a compliment.

If you get push back next year, start the conversation with a comment like - "I know I am an ESSENTIAL member of the team and meeting our goals is important, so here's my plan to meet xyz target."

As an FYI, my company recently changed policy so new employees START with 3 weeks PTO, and 10 PD, to be competitive for talented 20-somethings!

Maria


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

Just as an aside- to give you an idea of how things are run at my job- the front desk people are scheduled- most are part-time but are some full time as well- a month in advance. The supervisor sets it- doesn't ask the staff for their availability, though they can come to her to make requests. They have to be available days, evenings and weekends to work- no exceptions. There are some with seniority who have manged to get a cushy steady schedule- but rare and still subject to change.

Their schedule can be changed at the last minute- and often is-so they have to look at it every day for the following day! You can imagine how hard this can be for people who have children or even for themselves when they have plans to take care of their own lives. They are all woman by the way. They tried hiring males and the males never worked out. 

They have cameras and audio on their backs at all times. They have supervisors hanging over them and watching them on camera. I will say we do have a good staff, but we have had major turnover over the years and has gotten worse and worse. We have major volume of patients coming in so a really busy place. They have to answer phones and serve patients who come in at the same time. The boss has finally added people just for phones to give them some relief. Used to be that way years ago, but then they eliminated it and things got crazy. Thankfully, now he has somewhat changed it back

The techs have been overworked with doubled up patients. They obviously have to get replacements for when they are off. They barely used to be able to eat lunch, but the boss finally is changing that because we have lost a number of long time experienced techs who had enough.

Meanwhile, I have a steady schedule. I am out most of the day in my car- thankfully away from all the BS- listening to my music and talk radio- and chatting it up with people in the doctors offices. I wouldn't have it any other way other than not working altogether. I need freedom when I work. I like my independence.(I used to be a healthcare manager for many, many years and had enough of that!)  I am perceived as the lucky one in many cases- so there could be resentment or jealousy.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

mpizza said:


> I would let it go for now, since we're talking next year.  Sounds like the grouping of "back to back" PTO this summer highlighted how much you do and your presence was missed - take it as a compliment.
> 
> If you get push back next year, start the conversation with a comment like - "I know I am an ESSENTIAL member of the team and meeting our goals is important, so here's my plan to meet xyz target."
> 
> ...



I like that! LOL! 

Yes- next year if he says something I will ask why. It won't matter what his answer is because I will be out of there.

As for your company- you see?! I worked all my life and there in your company look how much time new young people are only just STARTING with!

I am making the same salary I made almost 20 years ago. I have less time off, less benefits, less everything. It is just what happened with the economy- layoffs and so on and I have been grateful to be able to work and make money and survive through it all.

But enough is enough with these companies taking advantage of their employees.

Oh and did I mention that ALSO this past June, after my two weeks vacation that month, I also took two days off because my husband won an award at his job - a trip to Boston along with other employees from across the country. (did I mention that we have to pay taxes on it?!! Being taken out of several paychecks. But- that is another story!). He was notified only a couple of months ahead and I immediately told my bosses about it.

Well, I didn't even want to go, but the BIGGER Boss though it was awesome and encouraged me to go. Every time I saw him he asked about it before and after the trip. Go figure.....


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 19, 2016)

Mary Ann ...

The company employment model of my long dead parents (and yours) and from our youth, DIED years and years ago. Put the tomestone on it from Jan 1, 1983 by and thanks Congress (the one in Washington, DC).

Some companies took longer to modify pensions (to kill then off) that the generation(s) ahead of us got to keep and retired on. Stop looking at the past ... you can't change it. Look what you need to do today...to keep working and saving for your golden years.

Chill ... that high blood pressure and stress from work WILL take years off your years of retirement.

Go in to the office with a smile on your face, keep detail notes out in your car & at home, do your job like YOU LOVE IT & your customers. Bosses seem to be able to 'feel & read negative vibes' ... and that bad energy will KILL YOU.

Meanwhile, I have my shoes on to head out the door .. .work has already called me once. And with the sun up, it will just be another LONG DAY outside working in the HEAT and HUMIDITY.  And it could be worse ... the a/c in the car/truck could not be working AND it could be Monday instead of FRIDAY.

WEEKEND IS HERE!


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## Pardytime (Aug 19, 2016)

Sounds like a power play to me, too.

Why don't you try this:
1.  Ask for two weeks in writing, briefly and politely explaining why you need it approved so far in advance, and give a date that you need the approval back by.
2.  Ask for the response in writing, referring to the verbal discussions.
3.  Ask that the response to include the reasoning for the restriction and if it is now policy or just applicable to you.

If you get a response (sometimes they don't), you will have something in writing to take to the next level up, should you desire to do so. 
If it does end up becoming a new policy, there will be others affected and you won't be in this alone.  
If the reasoning is explained, and it is just applicable to you, then you might be able determine from the wording if it is a)position related or b)personal.

I was in a similar situation two years ago.  I wish I had pushed back harder instead of retiring, but I was already burnt out, and it was just one more thing to confront.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

Oh- and here's one more thing that happened to someone else on Monday

A lovely woman- a full time ultrasound tech who used to be per diem- gets to work- a 45 minute drive in. This week she was supposed to have Friday off as she was scheduled for 10 hour days.

The boss tells her that she should go home. They need her on Friday. here she had plans for Friday- appts. and such.. This is how they operate. Me- I would have quit right on the spot..


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

vacationhopeful said:


> Mary Ann ...
> 
> The company employment model of my long dead parents (and yours) and from our youth, DIED years and years ago. Put the tomestone on it from Jan 1, 1983 by and thanks Congress (the one in Washington, DC).
> 
> ...



Oh- I get that. But I don't have to like it. And- I always smile- it's my job to smile! I am the face of the company. No one would ever know what I feel inside.

The weekend? Now I get to work at home cleaning and chores, etc.!

Feel bad that you have to work in this heat. I am out- but just in between getting in and out of an air conditioned car- and it still gets to me!

I am not living in the past. Just being who I am. I have respect for myself and the truth. I can't change now. I bend and bend- but refuse to be broken.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

Pardytime said:


> Sounds like a power play to me, too.
> 
> Why don't you try this:
> 1.  Ask for two weeks in writing, briefly and politely explaining why you need it approved so far in advance, and give a date that you need the approval back by.
> ...




I always just submit the dates I will be off in Feb. of each year to both bosses. Period. Never been an issue in the 11 years I am there. In fact- never been an issue in my entire life on any job and the 17 years we have owned the timeshare in VT. 

When I submit in Feb. if he says no- then I will ask why and listen to whatever reason he gives. I will address whatever it is he states. If he doesn't agree to allow me to take it, then I will resign the month before I am scheduled to go on my 2 week vacation.


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## PGtime (Aug 19, 2016)

Sorry you are struggling with this.  In July of 2007 I went on a missions trip to Chile and needed 2 weeks to do so.  I had it planned from early fall of 2006 and let my boss know as soon as I had planned it.

When I got back, he told me I should have told him earlier and that it was disruptive for me to be gone for 2 weeks.  As far as the disruption, fair enough.  At that time I was responsible for all of the network growth in 2 states, 100m budget and I know it was additional work for my team and him to chase stuff down when I was gone.  As far as the advance notice, when I reminded him of my telling him ~ 10 months before and the detailed plans I had developed to deal with my absence, he just changed the subject.  

In hindsight, I think he was just reacting to the stress my absence caused him and couldn't wait to let me know.  In any event, I have not needed 2 weeks (probably 10 days max recently) but also my current job does not have the same amount of exposure.  My current boss does not have a problem with it, so long as I let him know in advance and plan for my absence.

I would definitely dig to determine what caused this; in my case, it was just a knee jerk reaction to stress.  Perhaps he was just having a bad day and is reacting poorly?


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## falmouth3 (Aug 19, 2016)

Not sure of the law in NY, but it is my understanding that unused PTO is owed to you when you leave a company in MA.  Check into it and don't burn it all if you plan to quit next July.  You may want that chunk of cash to cushion you.


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## geekette (Aug 19, 2016)

Luanne said:


> I always said [to myself] if I couldn't take my vacation when I wanted I'd quit.  Luckily I never had to put that to the test.  I hope you can work this out.



Yep, and I have.  

The most memorable was a job I took as an "any port in the storm" and didn't plan to stay long.  We discussed at interview the year+plan for a one-week vaca.  Ok with them.  

Shortly before the trip, I start hearing from others that people get fired for taking time off.  Yeah, even if sick, they get hassled.   I didn't care about the job and won't be intimidated.  I went to Cabo for my bro's 50th; we were 14 people and I coordinated the trip.  During that week I didn't actually care if I had a job when I returned and simply enjoyed myself.

When we touched down in Denver, the calls started.  They apparently wanted to make VERY VERY SURE that I never came in their door again.  Ok.  The HR guy sounded ill at ease to fire someone for using time off but that's his problem to live with.  I guess he expected that I would be upset, like probably other people he had fired for taking sick time or whatever.  

Look, folks make their decisions about Work to Live or Live to Work.  I'm pleased to have seen mention of quitting in July anyway, so, I support that.  

I would push back and question this decision.  Where is the policy, why me, why now, what's the real deal?  Don't let them cow you out of this.  Stand firm.  My gut feel is that someone griped and said "it isn't fair" when of course if they had enough PTO they could probably take back to back weeks also.  Likely he will try to cover them, if this is the case, but you can ask the direct question:  did someone complain, and this is why?  Watch him closely as his words may not match his eyes.  

Live your life, let the job work around You.  And, you know, could be you take 2 weeks and nothing is ever said.  keep it on the calendar and say nothing about it.  You might come back and not have a job.  You would need to be ok with that and prepared for it.  

You could have the discussion in advance.  "I'm going to do what I plan to do and you will do whatever you have to do."  frankly, you can't be intimidated unless you let yourself be.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

falmouth3 said:


> Not sure of the law in NY, but it is my understanding that unused PTO is owed to you when you leave a company in MA.  Check into it and don't burn it all if you plan to quit next July.  You may want that chunk of cash to cushion you.



Our policy book says only 50% of accumulated PTO will be paid out provided you give proper notice as specified. Here they do what they want anyway.

Also, nothing in policy book regarding taking two weeks in a row, but of course, states time off has to be approved by management.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

Well I spoke to someone else who is involved in management and he said  there was no corporate meeting yesterday and no administrative decision about people taking 2 weeks off that he knows of, though he did have an issue when a person in his office took 2 weeks off, but she does not have a position like mine. I am the only one in the company with this type of job.

I am even thinking this has nothing to do with the BIGGER boss. That it was my immediate boss and possibly the supervisor- the one that had to pick up the papers each morning. 

Interestingly- many years ago my immediate boss ended up firing a supervisor and it all started with her wanting to take her time off based on her seniority. The supervisor who was getting the papers for me in the morning while I was away was also involved in that situation. I remember this poor woman who got fired telling me she was convinced that my boss and this woman were out to get her for whatever reason. Of course, I could be wrong...

That is what has struck me today. Funny, because when I got back from vacation, this supervisor told me she loved my Facebook pictures of our vacation and wants to go to NH as well after seeing them. She told me it was no problem picking up the papers- she got them on her way to work first thing in the morning. 

My boss is undergoing stress at home- his teenage daughter is very ill and he of course, has had to give up his golfing and his vacations to deal with this sad situation.

In fact, the day I got back from vacation he and I took a ride to see a doctor- I drove. He was in the car with me and never asked about my vacation or said he had any problem with it. Here we are two weeks after I come back and this comes up.

But- I still don't get it........


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

geekette said:


> Yep, and I have.
> 
> The most memorable was a job I took as an "any port in the storm" and didn't plan to stay long.  We discussed at interview the year+plan for a one-week vaca.  Ok with them.
> 
> ...



Wow! That's a story! These jobs are crazy! And yes- I am like you. I work to live. In fact, I always say I have no time to work and work gets in the way of my life! LOL!

Yes- I plan to live my life and I am taking those 2 weeks either while employed or not! LOL! 

I just have an overactive mind and am very curious as to why he said this. I may find out next year or never hear another thing about it again. Meanwhile, I will be mentioning it casually to my coworkers when vacations are discussed around the lunch room to tell them I can't wait until my next 2 weeks vacation! Planting the seed.......:rofl:


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## tashamen (Aug 19, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> Many long time employees have quit in the past few years- several this year. I have been hanging on because this is a rural area and not many jobs and at my age I do not want to start over anywhere. I have always said this is going to be my last employer until I retire or they fire me or I quit.



That sounds just like me.  Not many jobs in rural Vermont either, and 2 years ago my employer of 8 years (where I hoped to retire from) asked me to manage another area in addition to my own when other people quit, with less staff and no more money.  But somehow I got another job with better benefits and a 25% salary increase in rural NH without having to move.  I also was offered jobs that were completely online working from home, but DH does that and we'd drive each other crazy. 

Oh, and I was also 60 at the time.  So you may have more options than you think.  No job is worth being unhappy much of the time!


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## geekette (Aug 19, 2016)

tashamen said:


> ... my employer of 8 years (where I hoped to retire from) asked me to manage another area in addition to my own when other people quit, with less staff and no more money.  But somehow I got another job with better benefits and a 25% salary increase ...



yeah, I have had that situation, too.  On that job, I had been waiting for An Out after 7 years, about 2 past when I was ready to leave, and that was my chance.  I was presented with "my new job description" which was packed with training people on how to use computers and software, going to donors homes to help them (!), things I have no interest in doing, else I would be doing them.  Software developers are rarely excited about teaching someone how to make something bold in Word.  It is not my fault that the trainer they hired had no computer clue, I wasn't going to cover her butt, and certainly not for no extra pay.  She is their problem, not mine.  

After reading through and laughing at many of the entries on that new description, there was of course the last bullet point that essentially said "and everything you already do".  I pushed the paper back across the desk and said, No Thank You.  Stunned him.  He was appalled that I would rather leave than do that new job, but, I was aiming for the Shut Up and Go Away Program, and I got him to say Job Elimination, which triggers Job Elimination Paperwork that amounts to a bucket of money to leave, more than 6 months' pay in my case.     Shoot, I 'd go back to get canned that way again!


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

Any job I ever got laid off from I didn't get one cent in severence and this one would be no different.

If I end up having to quit next year because of this stupid vacation thing I will work on starting my blog and maybe trying to get a part time work at home job. No more being a prostitute for a paycheck.


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## geekette (Aug 19, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> Any job I ever got laid off from I didn't get one cent in severence and this one would be no different.
> 
> If I end up having to quit next year because of this stupid vacation thing I will work on starting my blog and maybe trying to get a part time work at home job. No more being a prostitute for a paycheck.



!  LOL  

eons ago, I was a consultant and someone referred to us as prostitutes.  Some places are more on the line of Body Shop than others.

Some months ago, someone emailed me about a research work from home type of job, very flexible.  I didn't do anything with it since I don't need another job, but let me know if you might be interested and I'll look it up for you as I'm sure finding people is an ongoing endeavor.  If you give it a shot long before you jet on the job, you'll know if you like it, etc., long before you are to decision point.  

Keep your sanity, lose the job ...


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

geekette said:


> !  LOL
> 
> eons ago, I was a consultant and someone referred to us as prostitutes.  Some places are more on the line of Body Shop than others.
> 
> ...



Absolutely! I am always interested in a possible job I can do from home! I would certainly check into it. Thanks in advance.


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## VegasBella (Aug 19, 2016)

I wouldn't read too much into it. He might have just been busy or he might have been trying to pull some sort of power maneuver. Just wait a bit. Maybe bring him something he likes, brownies or something. Then wait a bit. Then ask again - very friendly and in a very clear manner - and see his response.


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## MOXJO7282 (Aug 19, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> Any job I ever got laid off from I didn't get one cent in severence and this one would be no different.
> 
> If I end up having to quit next year because of this stupid vacation thing I will work on starting my blog and maybe trying to get a part time work at home job. No more being a prostitute for a paycheck.



I was avoid quitting if at all possible. If you see they won't allow I would just start doing the bare minimum and perhaps they will look to release you. 

Don't let them force you out because of their pettiness and then not have to pay you unemployment benefits because you quit. Find out what the ruling is and then just do 9-5 nothing special work and hopefully they do something before you have to.

If they don't then take the 2 weeks anyway and that should trigger a firing. They may say you in essence quit by not showing up but then you would probably be able to sue. I believe if your story was heard in a court of law, given there was a precendent of 2 weeks taken previously and no policy against it you would win a favorable ruling. 

I've seen one case where an older worker who was well reviewed for years all of a sudden was released because his work legitimately started falling off but he cried age discrimination and eventually won a settlement because the company didn't want any part of going to court if there is any chance they would lose.


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## geekette (Aug 19, 2016)

falmouth3 said:


> Not sure of the law in NY, but it is my understanding that unused PTO is owed to you when you leave a company in MA.  Check into it and don't burn it all if you plan to quit next July.  You may want that chunk of cash to cushion you.



Wow, holy crap, great state!  

We are an at-will state, each employer sets their own rules.  The last job that I quit, I used all of my vaca time before putting in resignation because A) it would not be paid out and B)  policy says you cannot use paid time off during final 2 weeks of work. 

I felt like a heel, coming in on Monday after a week out to say I'm Leaving.   But, having a policy put them in that position vs just paying out the earned time on my final check.


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## geekette (Aug 19, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> Absolutely! I am always interested in a possible job I can do from home! I would certainly check into it. Thanks in advance.



I will dig it up this weekend and PM you.  I thought it was fairly interesting, if I had the time.


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## PigsDad (Aug 19, 2016)

geekette said:


> Wow, holy crap, great state!
> 
> We are an at-will state, each employer sets their own rules.  The last job that I quit, I used all of my vaca time before putting in resignation because A) it would not be paid out and B)  policy says you cannot use paid time off during final 2 weeks of work.
> 
> I felt like a heel, coming in on Monday after a week out to say I'm Leaving.   But, having a policy put them in that position vs just paying out the earned time on my final check.



Yep, my company has the same policy of not paying out accrued vacation (but if you are "in the hole", they will deduct that from your last paycheck!).  When people leave, they usually give their 2 week notice and if they say they are off to work for a competitor, they are escorted out that day.  That way they get paid for their last 2 weeks but don't even have to show up for work.  It's a great way to plan your exit!

Kurt


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## falmouth3 (Aug 19, 2016)

geekette said:


> Wow, holy crap, great state!
> 
> We are an at-will state, each employer sets their own rules.  The last job that I quit, I used all of my vaca time before putting in resignation because A) it would not be paid out and B)  policy says you cannot use paid time off during final 2 weeks of work.
> 
> I felt like a heel, coming in on Monday after a week out to say I'm Leaving.   But, having a policy put them in that position vs just paying out the earned time on my final check.



MA is also an at will state.  NY and MA are very clear that unpaid/unused vacation time is owed to the employee.  MA, however does address PTO:

Annual Leave
Some employers combine sick leave, personal leave, vacation leave, and/or other types of leave into one general category called “annual leave.” This combined leave is also called paid time off, earned time, or paid days off. Employers who provide annual leave instead of vacation leave should designate the amount of hours or days of the leave which are considered vacation time. Employers who have previously designated vacation time in this manner, whether orally or in writing, shall produce proof of such designation to rebut a complaint of unpaid wages pursuant to M.G.L. c. 149, s. 148.

I once worked for a company that had 2 floating holidays that the employee could use whenever they wanted.  I always used my floaters first so I'd have my designated vacation left for any eventualities.  Floating holidays were not paid when you left.  Vacation days were.


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## T-Dot-Traveller (Aug 19, 2016)

*My 2nd  2 cents  -  for the day  / on TUG*

I assume most of us reading and posting on Mary Ann 's  thread are past 50 .
and it has grown to 3 pages quickly .

I guess we are not that different than the Millenials - who are looking for the next / better job on the day they start .

Bosses with questionable judgement and questionable people skills ,seem to,be everywhere .

Have a good weekend 

******

Monday morning & work come too soon .

.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 19, 2016)

VegasBella said:


> I wouldn't read too much into it. He might have just been busy or he might have been trying to pull some sort of power maneuver. Just wait a bit. Maybe bring him something he likes, brownies or something. Then wait a bit. Then ask again - very friendly and in a very clear manner - and see his response.




That's what I am thinking. I never asked him anything. I took my vacation- which he and the bigger boss knew about back in Feb.- and then 2 weeks later now he said this- "no more back to back vacations". I am always nice to him. He's the boss. I do whatever he asks whenever he asks- with a big smile and "no problem"!


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## Icc5 (Aug 19, 2016)

*World Fair/Expo*



mpumilia said:


> I like that! LOL!
> 
> Yes- next year if he says something I will ask why. It won't matter what his answer is because I will be out of there.
> 
> ...


Years ago before I got married I won a trip to Canada World Expo because of having the best displays in my district (Safeway) and I took my best friend.  We even were given hats,jackets, carry on bag (all had vendors names on them).
Not only did I have to pay tax on everything but it showed up as income on my pay stub.  Cost me a pretty Penney.


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## lizap (Aug 19, 2016)

They have the 'right' as long as they are not violating the Age Discrmination in Employment Act which, I think could be a distinct possibility...I would consult an employment law attorney, especially if there are other instances of discriminatory behavior..




Barnaby said:


> G'day mpermilia, i see a lot of encouragement to check labour laws, regulations and company policy, but don't forget to balance all of that against what is important to you physically, emotionally, psychologically, and of course financially. And following on from big matts comment, remember that if management have the discretion to limit vacation time, THEY ALSO HAVE THE DISCRETION TO EXTEND IT! Good luck.


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## Egret1986 (Aug 20, 2016)

*I have found this thread perplexing since the beginning...but very, very interesting*

Mary Ann, you're an 11-year employee.  You get along with folks where you work.  You have a good relationship with your boss and the big boss.  You're accustomed to taking back-to-back weeks.  You submit it in February each year.

1) I'm baffled why the boss didn't offer an explanation for the change.

2) I'm curious why you didn't ask the reason for this new policy when he didn't offer up one.  Do you not have that type of a rapport with him?

This is driving you crazy wondering why.  I don't really understand why you have to be going covert in attempting to glean information from others.  You're plotting potential strategies for carrying out a plan for your vacation time next year and what you'll do if there's an issue.  That kind of stuff is called "stress".  You have enough already.  

I can't imagine a major benefit change not being addressed in writing to all employees, along with an explanation (no matter how simple or generic)....something. 

Apparently, it was just a one-on-one verbal statement that was made to you by your boss.  The way it was handled seems like it was specific to you.

I'm curious why you didn't address the reason for the change when he told you no more back-to-back weeks.  This change has the potential to impact your vacation happiness and may even be cause for you to quit your job.  

It's just a bit bizarre to me.  It seems that it could all be resolved by asking to meet with the boss to find out what happened and why.  I hope this is an option.  It would be much better to get this resolved now rather than later.

I wish you the best with this issue at work.  

PS  

I hope that "work-from-home" deal is something that could be a potential option for you.   Good Luck!!!


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## FLDVCFamily (Aug 20, 2016)

Is it possible that your position is something that they are looking to cut in general (not age-discrimination related) and they are trying to subtly make you want to quit? It sounds like you aren't a costly employee (not even taking the health insurance), so that was the only thing that came to mind.


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## pedro47 (Aug 20, 2016)

What is the total number of employees employed at this company? Again, I would check with another HR company in a similar health care field and read your company handbook. I also, would recommend checking other departments within the company. This may be your supervisor personal policy and not the company written policy. Check withe the ACLU in your area/state or a college law school in your area for guidance. The company maybe breaking some federal or state laws. Documents and print out all your emails about this problem and take your documentation home. Please have your supervisor put this/his policy in written via company email... Please do not discuss your problems with your fellow workers. Good luck.


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## pedro47 (Aug 20, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> Any job I ever got laid off from I didn't get one cent in severence and this one would be no different.
> 
> If I end up having to quit next year because of this stupid vacation thing I will work on starting my blog and maybe trying to get a part time work at home job. No more being a prostitute for a paycheck.



You are not entitle to servant pay if you were fired with causes in the state of Virginia.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2016)

Egret1986 said:


> Mary Ann, you're an 11-year employee.  You get along with folks where you work.  You have a good relationship with your boss and the big boss.  You're accustomed to taking back-to-back weeks.  You submit it in February each year.
> 
> 1) I'm baffled why the boss didn't offer an explanation for the change.
> 
> ...



Yes- it is bizarre. I don't know why I didn't ask him myself. I could kick myself. I think I didn't ask him because I was taken back frankly. My boss is the type of person that, although I get along ok with him,  you can't question him- he goes into attack mode. We both are overly sensitive. I think part of me backs off because I revert to my childhood with my authoritarian style upbringing. I am one of those not quick on my feet thinkers- I am the "feeling" type. Feel first- go with my intuition and analyze everything to death later! LOL!

Yes- I am baffled as to why he didn't give me a reason as well.

On top of everything else he is a bit on edge because his young daughter is battling cancer. I suppose I just retreated and stayed away to avoid confrontation- which I hate. And- I know I wouldn't win anyway- his ego is too big- way big. He has to always be right. He is a pretty insecure person deep down I think and he is also very secretive.  (I won't get into astrology- but I am big on astrology and let's just say I have his number- he is very typical for his sign, as I am of mine)

At this point I really do not want to raise this issue up with him again. This will put him on the defensive- a place he doesn't like to be and it won't be good. I had my chance when I was on the defensive and I blew it. I will have to wait for next time- if there even is a next time.

As for the company putting something in writing. Every so often they make changes to the employee handbook. Last was done in January 2016.  But- regarding vacation time- I just looked it up and of course all time off is at the discretion of management- nice and broad- meaning they can do whatever they want in terms of approving time off..


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2016)

pedro47 said:


> What is the total number of employees employed at this company? Again, I would check with another HR company in a similar health care field and read your company handbook. I also, would recommend checking other departments within the company. This may be your supervisor personal policy and not the company written policy. Check withe the ACLU in your area/state or a college law school in your area for guidance. The company maybe breaking some federal or state laws. Documents and print out all your emails about this problem and take your documentation home. Please have your supervisor put this/his policy in written via company email... Please do not discuss your problems with your fellow workers. Good luck.



I do not know exactly how many employees- maybe something like 30- but not all full-time- many part-timers. 

I can tell you that working for doctors in general stinks- not them as people- just the way of the business. Our facility is owned by doctors as it is a radiology center. My immediate bosses are not doctors. As I said- NY is an at will employer state. They can do whatever they want more or less.

Whether he puts it in writing or not,  I will be out of there if he enforces it.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2016)

FLDVCFamily said:


> Is it possible that your position is something that they are looking to cut in general (not age-discrimination related) and they are trying to subtly make you want to quit? It sounds like you aren't a costly employee (not even taking the health insurance), so that was the only thing that came to mind.




I don't know honestly- but hey- if they want to cut me out they should just do it. Why mention something like this when it isn't even time to put in vacation dates for next year?

You would think he would have just told me that I couldn't take XMAS week off to try to make me quit.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 20, 2016)

Many bosses are just tired from the crap raining down on them ... and then having to put up with the employees whining under them. They are as TRAPPED in a job as their employees with 11 years or more so ... skill set specific to the company, few options in the local area and bosses OUT of the AREA, feeling MORE cuts/reduction in costs can be achieved in a depressed and lower wage area. Besides, the bigger (not in the area) bosses don't know you all and feel ANY clerk can be replaced by a new (less costly, younger, willing) clog in the wheel of paper pushing.

If his daughter is battling cancer, he is in total FEAR he will lose his health insurance ... he will protect his job 10 fold over any coworker or friend. And as for work friends ... the people you see every morning (at the best & worst) ... you leave (or get laid off), you become 'dead' to them. They are "work acquaintances" ... a friend would lend you $5000 even if they didn't have it to spare; a co-worker gives you $10 to pickup a Subway sandwich and expects the change...as you would expect them to cough over the cost of their sandwich when you deliver it...after all, why should they expect you to pay for their lunch 3 days before payday .. like YOU got more money than they do?


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2016)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I was avoid quitting if at all possible. If you see they won't allow I would just start doing the bare minimum and perhaps they will look to release you.
> 
> Don't let them force you out because of their pettiness and then not have to pay you unemployment benefits because you quit. Find out what the ruling is and then just do 9-5 nothing special work and hopefully they do something before you have to.
> 
> ...


]

Well- this is a very interesting response. Let me say that I already do the bare minimum since I haven't had a raise in many years (- let me correct that- last year I suddenly noticed that there was $7.00 (yes- you read that right) more in my paycheck. I saw that my hourly pay had been rounded off. Nothing said to me about it. I suppose that was some kind of token raise). A few years after I started working there my quarterly bonuses just stopped with no mention. Our lunch hour was cut to a half hour. (work hours are 8-4:30).
Our vacation time accrual was cut by 4 days and capped.I said to myself- I get less, I work less. I take many more breaks- I have the freedom to do so wince I am out in the field mostly.

That said- I do not have a stressful job and it is actually easy in many ways, though it's overall objective can be hard because of market forces.The only thing I could really do that would force them to fire me would be to badmouth them to the community or to not show up for work- bad stuff like that- and I wouldn't be eligible for unemployment then. I could never bring myself to ever do things like that anyway. I am not made like that.

BUT- interesting thing you mentioned- just don't come back after the one week of vacation and stay away for the whole two weeks. I like it!  LOL! 

Yeah- I would be fired- but again- I don't know if I could get unemployment
in that case- especially in NY which is an at will employer state. But- hey- you never know!


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## pedro47 (Aug 20, 2016)

To the OP. if you take this problem to a legal person that are going to ask you. What do you have in writing and a copy of your employee handbook.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 20, 2016)

pedro47 said:


> To the OP. if you take this problem to a legal person that are going to ask you. What do you have in writing and a copy of your employee handbook.



Yes. I know. I have a copy of the handbook and nothing in writing because they rarely put things in writing. 

But I do not see this becoming a legal issue, though who knows?


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## Kel (Aug 20, 2016)

It appears to me that you are over thinking this.  You should just go in and talk to your supervisor ask why you cannot take two weeks of vacation at a time.  Seems simple to me.   Or, your husband may be right...  They may be trying to get rid of you.


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## Kal (Aug 20, 2016)

If they are looking to get rid of you, their approach will be very carefully thought through.  When dealing with a senior aged employee, the first thing they will have to guard against is age discrimination.  For them, it would be best if you just departed on your own volition.

 Don't even think about lawyers.  They have all the time and financial advantages to just wear you down.

 If all else fails, just talk to them in a quiet non-threatening setting.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2016)

Kel said:


> It appears to me that you are over thinking this.  You should just go in and talk to your supervisor ask why you cannot take two weeks of vacation at a time.  Seems simple to me.   Or, your husband may be right...  They may be trying to get rid of you.



Yes. I know. I tend to overthink everything. I am not going to worry about it anymore at this point. I have gone through all the scenarios in my head and exhausted myself! LOL! 

It could have even been that he might have been overwhelmed/hassled with a lot of vacations this summer and he himself might have messed up some of the techs' schedules since he has been off a lot because of his sick daughter. Maybe he just took it out on me at that moment. This would be the best case scenario.

I am not going to bring it up again. He said "we will see next year and I will have to talk to "the bigger boss".  So - fine. I will put in for my time like I always do in Feb/March and see what happens. 

I am going to just hope he forgets about it next year and if he doesn't I will ask for his reasoning and I know what I have to do and just have to figure out the best way to do it.

Thanks everyone! I will keep you all updated and let you know the outcome! LOL!


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## normab (Aug 21, 2016)

You've been given some good advice already but I thought I'd add my opinion too.  As long as there is no written policy that says two consecutive week vacations are not allowed, it's up to the discretion of your management, which in my opinion includes your boss and your boss's boss. 

I would not do anything now, just wait until February when you normally submit your request. I would email the request to my boss and I would CC his manager on that email. This way, if it's your boss who's having an issue but his boss isn't, then you may have a little more negotiation power.  

If your boss was just having a bad day, then it will not be an issue anyway.  If there is serious pushback however, that's the time to open up the dialogue about why and, if others are being allowed to take two weeks back to back vacations,  I would state that its discriminatory against you.  If they're not letting anyone do it, then some other Tuugers have given you good advice on how to handle the situation.

It's  funny how when you use the word harassment or discrimination in a sentence how people back down very quickly. I've seen this used very successfully by other people in my many years of work. It can be a bit adversarial, so be aware of this.  

Good luck.


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## am1 (Aug 21, 2016)

Lets not throw around using harassment or discrimination with everything.  It could just be that two weeks in a row is too hard for the company.  

It seems if the op bosses saw these threads and others she would be let go.  She may be great at what she does but it seems there is an attitude problem and maybe that is cause for some of this.  I am sure a lot of others would be very happy to have this job at the same pay or less.  

The best advice would be to find another place of employment.  Seems like everyone would win with that.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2016)

normab said:


> You've been given some good advice already but I thought I'd add my opinion too.  As long as there is no written policy that says two consecutive week vacations are not allowed, it's up to the discretion of your management, which in my opinion includes your boss and your boss's boss.
> 
> I would not do anything now, just wait until February when you normally submit your request. I would email the request to my boss and I would CC his manager on that email. This way, if it's your boss who's having an issue but his boss isn't, then you may have a little more negotiation power.
> 
> ...



Yes. Agree. 

This is what I do all the time-In Feb/March-I send an email telling Both of them when I will be away. I never ask- I just tell. Never been any issues all the years I have been there.

If any push back maybe I should say something like" Gee- I guess I am very valuable if you can't do without me for 2 weeks. I must be grossly underpaid!!"   LOL!:hysterical:


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2016)

am1 said:


> Lets not throw around using harassment or discrimination with everything.  It could just be that two weeks in a row is too hard for the company.
> 
> It seems if the op bosses saw these threads and others she would be let go.  She may be great at what she does but it seems there is an attitude problem and maybe that is cause for some of this.  I am sure a lot of others would be very happy to have this job at the same pay or less.
> 
> The best advice would be to find another place of employment.  Seems like everyone would win with that.



You don't like me very much, do you?


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## Kal (Aug 21, 2016)

am1 said:


> Lets not throw around using harassment or discrimination with everything. It could just be that two weeks in a row is too hard for the company.
> 
> It seems if the op bosses saw these threads and others she would be let go. She may be great at what she does but it seems there is an attitude problem and maybe that is cause for some of this. I am sure a lot of others would be very happy to have this job at the same pay or less.
> 
> The best advice would be to find another place of employment. Seems like everyone would win with that.


 
 For me, use of the words "harassment or discrimination" tends to label the person as maybe "not a company person", or "troublemaker".  As an employee, sometimes it's difficult to place the company's interests as first priority.


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## dioxide45 (Aug 21, 2016)

With most employers, vacation is scheduled at management discretion. So if they say no two week vacations, then so be it. It is up to the employee to take it or move on. If others performing the same duties are allowed to take two week vacations but others aren't, then there is perhaps a question of fairness.


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## am1 (Aug 21, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> You don't like me very much, do you?



That is not it at all.  I am sure you are a great person.  But I would not want you working for me.  You seem very unhappy with your job.  You may not think it shows but it very well could.  

I wish you the best in this situation as well as in any others.


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## sue1947 (Aug 21, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> My boss is the type of person that, although I get along ok with him,  you can't question him- he goes into attack mode.
> 
> On top of everything else he is a bit on edge because his young daughter is battling cancer.
> And- I know I wouldn't win anyway- his ego is too big- way big. He has to always be right. He is a pretty insecure person deep down I think and he is also very secretive.
> ...



Given your description of your boss, I think you are correct to let this go until next Feb.  I'm usually a big advocate of having a conversation to sort things out.  However, with his daughter battling cancer, you are in a no win situation.   Cut him some slack for irrational behavior while this is going on.  He has no control over the situation at home so he is exercising more control at work.  If you push it, he is likely to take some of the huge stress he is under out on you.  Let it slide until next winter when, hopefully, his daughter will be recovering and this may be a non-issue.  
In the meantime, you might look for an opportunity to help out in some way.   Perhaps cover for him while he is at the hospital or just ask him how she is doing.  

Sue


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2016)

am1 said:


> That is not it at all.  I am sure you are a great person.  But I would not want you working for me.  You seem very unhappy with your job.  You may not think it shows but it very well could.
> 
> I wish you the best in this situation as well as in any others.




Well, I would not want to work for you either. 

That said- at work I am always pleasant to everyone- because it is my nature! I take all my interactions with people personally. I have integrity and ethics. I genuinely like people. I actually WANT to be helpful. It comes natural to me. Again- my personality.What you see is what you get when you interact with me in person. When I say I am going to do something I do it. When the boss asks me to do something I do it. No grief given. I am disciplined. And- despite how I come across I stay loyal until I leave a job.

That said-- a good part of the time I struggle through the day because the schedule of working gets to me- the day in and day out. I am strong and persevere. But- yeah- I get tired and bored with the work. I can't help wishing I was home or doing something else. I don't think I am unusual. I just admit it and most people don't. And then, of course, there are people that love their jobs and going in every day. But I don't know that many of them. In any case- I do as good a job as I can each day.

Would I like to be retired- certainly.  Do I wish I didn't have to work- sure. So what? So do millions of other people. Do I want to be treated fairly and with respect at work- absolutely. Do I need some freedom and autonomy on a job- yes. Do I want a 2 week back to back vacation every year- you betcha I do and I deserve it! I am not a work martyr!


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2016)

Kal said:


> For me, use of the words "harassment or discrimination" tends to label the person as maybe "not a company person", or "troublemaker".  As an employee, sometimes it's difficult to place the company's interests as first priority.



I agree. I would not be the type to use that kind of language unless it was blatantly obvious it was happening in my situation. Even then, I might not say anything. 

I have no qualms with recognizing companies have to do what is best for them. That is their responsibility- to make sure the company stays viable. I get it. Not to make employees happy. Though it doesn't hurt for employers to try to make a work environment pleasant and thereby helping to keep the employees energized and incentivized as they work towards achieving the company goals.


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## WinniWoman (Aug 21, 2016)

sue1947 said:


> Given your description of your boss, I think you are correct to let this go until next Feb.  I'm usually a big advocate of having a conversation to sort things out.  However, with his daughter battling cancer, you are in a no win situation.   Cut him some slack for irrational behavior while this is going on.  He has no control over the situation at home so he is exercising more control at work.  If you push it, he is likely to take some of the huge stress he is under out on you.  Let it slide until next winter when, hopefully, his daughter will be recovering and this may be a non-issue.
> In the meantime, you might look for an opportunity to help out in some way.   Perhaps cover for him while he is at the hospital or just ask him how she is doing.
> 
> Sue



Exactly. That is how I feel. 

Believe me I am always helpful. I run all the errands for the company. Need me to go to Home Depot for light bulbs? No problem. Need me to order food for a meeting. No problem. Need to to send flowers to someone. Will do. Need me to bring a CD to a doctor. I'm on it. "Yes" is the word.

Both my bosses have been here as long as me and I of course always ask about my boss's daughter and how she is coming along and all his kids and his golf game and HIS vacations. I am a personable individual! That is why I am in a job like the one I am in. I'm a talker! Can you tell? LOL!  This particular boss helped me when I hurt myself at work back in Feb. He came to my moms wake. We chat it up here or there. Heck- it's been 11 years.....


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## ronparise (Aug 21, 2016)

mpumilia said:


> Exactly. That is how I feel.
> 
> Believe me I am always helpful. I run all the errands for the company. Need me to go to Home Depot for light bulbs? No problem. Need me to order food for a meeting. No problem. Need to to send flowers to someone. Will do. Need me to bring a CD to a doctor. I'm on it. "Yes" is the word.
> 
> Both my bosses have been here as long as me and I of course always ask about my boss's daughter and how she is coming along and all his kids and his golf game and HIS vacations. I am a personable individual! That is why I am in a job like the one I am in. I'm a talker! Can you tell? LOL!  This particular boss helped me when I hurt myself at work back in Feb. He came to my moms wake. We chat it up here or there. Heck- it's been 11 years.....





Please understand this has nothing to do with liking you or not liking you. You have to decide what you want and then do a risk assessment and then decide what to do

The way I see is that you have to consider the possible reactions if you demand the 2 weeks and then decide if you can live with the worst case scenario. And then decide what to do

Me? I work for the worst boss in the world. I wouldn't take a vacation at all.


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## VacationForever (Aug 21, 2016)

Mary Ann, Have you ever asked your manager in a 1:1 as to why you have not gotten a pay raise in years and what do you need to do to get a pay increase?  We own our own employment and employability.  To move to the next level or get a pay increase will most likely involve putting together a development plan  with your manager.  Wondering why you have not gotten a pay increase and doing the minimum because of that makes it a self fulfilling prophecy.


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## MuranoJo (Aug 22, 2016)

sptung said:


> Mary Ann, Have you ever asked your manager in a 1:1 as to why you have not gotten a pay raise in years and what do you need to do to get a pay increase?  We own our own employment and employability.  To move to the next level or get a pay increase will most likely involve putting together a development plan  with your manager.  Wondering why you have not gotten a pay increase and doing the minimum because of that makes it a self fulfilling prophecy.



Agree.  I'm normally one of those "get it out in the open" kind of people.  You really do need to address what appears to be several issues, if only to get peace of mind, eventually.  Chances are you'll both come to terms and things will improve (pay & vacation time).  If not, well, then you'll know.  As others, though, I wonder about the timing with his ill child.  Maybe ask for some dedicated coffee time, just the two of you?


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## WinniWoman (Feb 11, 2017)

Well, here is my follow up to this story...

Over the past weekend I sent my usual email to both bosses with the PTO days I have planned for the year, including my two week timeshare ownership. The bigger boss said it was great but to put the "request" into the new online system the other boss now has set up for the employees to use. ( I never request- I have always just "told" all my 11 years there). So I did so.

Meanwhile, the winter storm came upon us this past Thursday and on Friday he sent out an email to reinforce the policy that since the office was closed we all have to either use a PTO day or not get paid. I chose to not get paid. (this not really relevant, but this is how the company rolls. I wanted to make sure I have enough PTO days for the year as most are accounted for. I can afford a day with no pay and this is a rare situation in which they allow a day without pay).

I then also see I have received emails from the computer system stating that all my requests have been approved. He asks me to come into his office for a moment- no biggie he says- and tells me he approved all my PTO time but to keep in mind that the "company" is discouraging back to back vacations, but I am good for this year. I again explain this is how my timeshare ownership works. He asks if I stay at the same place for the whole two weeks (why- I don't know), but I told him we have one week in VT and one week in NH for the past two years. That, although we have been going to Vermont the same week every year since 1999,  we acquired the other week in NH so we could see our son and for the convenience since we are already up that way. He again stressed to keep it in mind that the company is discouraging 2 weeks in a row vacations.

Yeah- right ok. I will keep it in mind as I am getting older - into my 60's. Yeah- ok. I am not going to be able to go away for more than a week at a time? I don't think so. But, sure, I will keep it in mind.

Wait until I ask for a 3 week in a row vacation for Italy one of these years! LOL!

All a relief, though, as I was dreading having to have a talk if the time off wasn't approved and also having to deal with possibly resigning. Plus, I had just booked flights for our other (June) vacation prior to submitting the time off since I have never had to really get approval for time off, as I have a non critical job and no one has to fill in for me.

So-all is good. Now I need some more time off to attend a nieces' graduation and I only have 2 extra PTO days available/left for the whole year! Uh, oh........


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## DaveNV (Feb 11, 2017)

Glad you got your time off, but it sounds as if they're laying groundwork for saying No next time. 

Dave


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## dioxide45 (Feb 11, 2017)

It is always possible that by next year you will have a different boss that won't care.


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## elaine (Feb 11, 2017)

I agree, who knows what it'll be in summer 2018. OTOH, not being able to take 2 weeks off in the summer, but having a secure job (even one you don't like) might be an ok trade off. At least you have another year before you might have to choose.


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## VacationForever (Feb 11, 2017)

Congrats on getting your time off approved.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 12, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> It is always possible that by next year you will have a different boss that won't care.



Anything is possible. However, the immediate boss has been there as long as i have. The CEO started the company. But- yes- it is possible they could move on. Then again, I could end up with a really bad new boss!


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## WinniWoman (Feb 12, 2017)

elaine said:


> I agree, who knows what it'll be in summer 2018. OTOH, not being able to take 2 weeks off in the summer, but having a secure job (even one you don't like) might be an ok trade off. At least you have another year before you might have to choose.



Uh-actually, no. I was going to resign if it wasn't approved. There is no good reason why it should not be for the job/responsibilities I have. But, of course, the company has the right to do what it wants. And I also have a choice, though not a good one if it came down to it. At my age I am past all this crap. I am not waiting until I am using a walker to take a 2 week in a row vacation. I so look forward to it every year. That's my stance and I am sticking to it! LOL!

(BTW- no job is secure.)


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## VacationForever (Feb 12, 2017)

Aren't you 2 years away from retiring?  2 more years to go then!


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## WinniWoman (Feb 12, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Aren't you 2 years away from retiring?  2 more years to go then!




I wish! I am 60. Will be 61 in June. Hubby is going to be 63 in April. I have to work until age 65 at least for health insurance because my husband will be retiring at 66 and I will at that point only be 64.


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## VacationForever (Feb 12, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> I wish! I am 60. Will be 61 in June. Hubby is going to be 63 in April. I have to work until age 65 at least for health insurance because my husband will be retiring at 66 and I will at that point only be 64.



Oh well.  May good health and timesharing prevail!


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## turkel (Feb 12, 2017)

MaryAnn I am with you. 2 weeks in a row is not excessive. Having vacation plans makes you more productive and healthier.  There are multiple studies on this.
I asking for 4 weeks in a row including 1 unpaid.  I am sure eyes will bulge but the rules are in place for me to ask,but no guarantee. I just hope the office will "suck it up"and not cause too much of a fuss since this is for my wedding and honeymoon.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 12, 2017)

Mary Ann ... I have had several 'courses' in corporate speak. My feelings is your boss drew a "line in the sand" with the "no 2 weeks off" policy change several months ago. His "approval" was basicly restating the company policy ... no "back to back" vacation weeks. And he was not saying NEXT YEAR ... he was say, "this year".  I don't believe he really APPROVED your 2 week vacation ... and it is NOT in writing, is it? 

You might not have WANTED to hear what he was saying ... and he was not directly threatening you with ... take 2 weeks off and the job is gone .. as then he would have a 'bad seed' sitting in the office for the next 5-7 months. But how would you feel, if you came home to a letter, stating "Due to your failure to appear at work after your 1 week of vacation per corporate policy, your employment has been terminated."?.

This is most likely NOT about you. In a small office ... like any under staff work site ... stuff can't be ignored for 1/2 the month. 

JMHO,


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## WinniWoman (Feb 12, 2017)

Gee- for your wedding and honeymoon I cannot imagine an employer not giving an ok, but who knows these days? I cannot even imagine how great having 4 weeks off will feel! Where are you going? Very exciting! 

Our company does not allow any non paid days off except when they close the office in an emergency.

It makes it a challenge for someone like me who has 3 weeks of timeshares, plus likes to take the day after Thanksgiving off as our son visits (his only trip home each year)and has to go up to New Hampshire from NY for XMAS and also likes to take a non timeshare week in May/June- the first of any time off from January 2nd until Memorial Day. We do not have separate sick time so PTO's count for any time off. And we lose it if we don't take it by the end of the year. Heaven forbid something comes up or I get sick- would be a BIG problem with our company's policies. 

But anyway, I am routing for you! Good luck!


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## WinniWoman (Feb 12, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> Mary Ann ... I have had several 'courses' in corporate speak. My feelings is your boss drew a "line in the sand" with the "no 2 weeks off" policy change several months ago. His "approval" was basicly restating the company policy ... no "back to back" vacation weeks. And he was not saying NEXT YEAR ... he was say, "this year".  I don't believe he really APPROVED your 2 week vacation ... and it is NOT in writing, is it?
> 
> You might not have WANTED to hear what he was saying ... and he was not directly threatening you with ... take 2 weeks off and the job is gone .. as then he would have a 'bad seed' sitting in the office for the next 5-7 months. But how would you feel, if you came home to a letter, stating "Due to your failure to appear at work after your 1 week of vacation per corporate policy, your employment has been terminated."?.
> 
> ...



Yes, Linda. It is in writing! I got the emails from the computer program thingie that he uses now. Not only that, but I have the email from the CEO (the bigger boss over him) in response to my email with the dates telling me "great!". This is the first time in all my 11 years there that either one of them EVER responded to my PTO dates email! I would send. Never heard anything. That would be it. Then the day before I would go on vacation, I would send a reminder email that I was going to be off and let them know the status of anything they needed to know- making sure everything was buttoned up before I left. And I would go.If I would get a work text or phone call while on vacation- though rare- I would handle it- even though they were things that could wait.

In fact- just a few weeks ago the CEO told me he was surprised I didn't put in all my dates yet. He said- his words- I really didn't need to worry about it as no one has to fill in for me! This is my big boss. The other guy of whom I have been speaking is the boss directly over me.

And- right-no one needs to do my job when I am not there. It truly is a non essential job. Believe me when I tell you, I could be off the whole summer and when I got back in Sept. everything would be fine and I just pick up from there. I work on my own. I am not a nurse, or a tech, or a doctor (who all take 2 week or more vacations, BTW), or front desk staff- where every job needs coverage when someone is out. I am a lowly marketing rep.

If anything- if my vacation time was not approved for that 2 week period- or any of the other ones for that matter- and even after speaking with him (and maybe the CEO also if he said it was ok) he wouldn't budge let's say- then I would have waited and just worked up until a month before the denied vacation and handed in my resignation.


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## turkel (Feb 12, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Gee- for your wedding and honeymoon I cannot imagine an employer not giving an ok, but who knows these days? I cannot even imagine how great having 4 weeks off will feel! Where are you going? Very exciting!
> 
> Our company does not allow any non paid days off except when they close the office in an emergency.
> 
> ...


Heading to Phuket for 2 weeks. The biggest issue is the week of Thanksgiving. Since I am in a union I may not have the seniority to pull the week of Thanksgiving off. My counterpart has 3 months on the job longer than me works part time and manages to take off every Holiday. I will be able to manage if they deny me the week before the wedding and the week of Thanksgiving but I will NOT be happy and we are flying out the day after Thanksgiving. 
The week off without pay isn't guaranteed and since I am the only full time nurse they can deny me based on need alone but the bottom line is I deserve the time. I am the only employee that shows up to work doesn't call in sick and I don't request miscellaneous days off. I will know by March 1 st fingers crossed.


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## VacationForever (Feb 12, 2017)

turkel said:


> Heading to Phuket for 2 weeks. The biggest issue is the week of Thanksgiving. Since I am in a union I may not have the seniority to pull the week of Thanksgiving off. My counterpart has 3 months on the job longer than me works part time and manages to take off every Holiday. I will be able to manage if they deny me the week before the wedding and the week of Thanksgiving but I will NOT be happy and we are flying out the day after Thanksgiving.
> The week off without pay isn't guaranteed and since I am the only full time nurse they can deny me based on need alone but the bottom line is I deserve the time. I am the only employee that shows up to work doesn't call in sick and I don't request miscellaneous days off. I will know by March 1 st fingers crossed.



Good luck!  

My good travel buddy is also a union nurse and getting time off approved is a pain in the ....  She has 25 years under her belt and while she has the seniority, she has to find her own replacement for when she goes away if it is not vacation that she had put in at the beginning of the year, which starts March of every year.  This year we have invited her to go on vacation with us for time that she did not apply for a year ago.  She texted her nurse friends and after 3 weeks, managed to clobber together enough people to cover her for the period of time that she will be going on vacation.  Strange that one has to find your own replacement for taking time off.  I guess they save on hiring a scheduler!

Another friend of mine who has only worked 17 years at the same place and does not get enough seniority.  Someone at his group who is more senior than him takes half a day off every Friday.  When he goes on vacation with us or family for a week, he never gets approved because of the Fridays.  He would just call in sick while he is on vacation as there is no other way around.  Quite ridiculous.


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## WinniWoman (Feb 12, 2017)

Wow! Thailand! Awesome!

I do not get how that coworker - a part-timer to boot- does not work out a holiday schedule with you so you both take turns.

When an employer has such a dedicated employee he/she should at least be a little flexible with time off approvals for that person. I am just like you-never call in sick or last minute; do everything I am asked to do. 

Let us know what happens!


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## WinniWoman (Feb 12, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Good luck!
> 
> My good travel buddy is also a union nurse and getting time off approved is a pain in the ....  She has 25 years under her belt and while she has the seniority, she has to find her own replacement for when she goes away if it is not vacation that she had put in at the beginning of the year, which starts March of every year.  This year we have invited her to go on vacation with us for time that she did not apply for a year ago.  She texted her nurse friends and after 3 weeks, managed to clobber together enough people to cover her for the period of time that she will be going on vacation.  Strange that one has to find your own replacement for taking time off.  I guess they save on hiring a scheduler!
> 
> Another friend of mine who has only worked 17 years at the same place and does not get enough seniority.  Someone at his group who is more senior than him takes half a day off every Friday.  When he goes on vacation with us or family for a week, he never gets approved because of the Fridays.  He would just call in sick while he is on vacation as there is no other way around.  Quite ridiculous.



This is what employment has become these days. I have been at jobs exactly like that where employees had to find their own replacements and so forth. Then they wonder why employees either leave or have an attitude.


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## Chrispee (Feb 12, 2017)

Reading this thread has made me appreciate how civilized my work place is when it comes to time off.  I'm glad you got your two weeks in the end Mary Ann!


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## turkel (Feb 13, 2017)

My jobs not that different from your buddies.  I have to submit my vacation "bid" by February 28 th for the April 1 st to March 31 st  vacation year. Only difference is there is no one to beg to work for me if I get denied. It can be totally frustrating and seemingly unfair. I am personally not a fan of the union except my income is higher than other non union hospitals.  So I stay .....money talks.


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## MOXJO7282 (Feb 16, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Good luck!
> 
> My good travel buddy is also a union nurse and getting time off approved is a pain in the ....  She has 25 years under her belt and while she has the seniority, she has to find her own replacement for when she goes away if it is not vacation that she had put in at the beginning of the year, which starts March of every year.  This year we have invited her to go on vacation with us for time that she did not apply for a year ago.  She texted her nurse friends and after 3 weeks, managed to clobber together enough people to cover her for the period of time that she will be going on vacation.  Strange that one has to find your own replacement for taking time off.  I guess they save on hiring a scheduler!
> 
> Another friend of mine who has only worked 17 years at the same place and does not get enough seniority.  Someone at his group who is more senior than him takes half a day off every Friday.  When he goes on vacation with us or family for a week, he never gets approved because of the Fridays.  He would just call in sick while he is on vacation as there is no other way around.  Quite ridiculous.



This is so sad that people work so hard and they have to stress out about getting their vacation dates.   I'm also very lucky that I just have to tell my boss when I'm going away and he says "no problem".  The down side for me is I have to take my work computer and cover emergencies if they arise because nobody knows my projects like I do. Usually that means a few phones calls over the cover of the vacation to deal with the emergency. Sometimes it means I work 8 hours over the course of a 2 week vacation. This is a challenge because it means I can never truly disconnect but I'll take the good with the bad and do some work on vacation as long as I can take 2 weeks whenever I want.


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## VacationForever (Feb 16, 2017)

MOXJO7282 said:


> This is so sad that people work so hard and they have to stress out about getting their vacation dates.   I'm also very lucky that I just have to tell my boss when I'm going away and he says "no problem".  The down side for me is I have to take my work computer and cover emergencies if they arise because nobody knows my projects like I do. Usually that means a few phones calls over the cover of the vacation to deal with the emergency. Sometimes it means I work 8 hours over the course of a 2 week vacation. This is a challenge because it means I can never truly disconnect but I'll take the good with the bad and do some work on vacation as long as I can take 2 weeks whenever I want.


Don't feel sad for these folks.  The union nurse makes about 140K a year... - this outfit is the best pay master in the health care industry.  I would gladly follow the rules...  plus that is the kind of job where you leave your work behind when you go home.  I have never had such kind of job in my entire working career.  I worked 7 days a week most of the time. My work was closer to your work... I still had to call into meetings and do some work while I was on vacation.


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## Zac495 (Feb 18, 2017)

My husband is director of HR and his company complains if he takes more than a week off. NOT OK WITH ME. Life is short and we're not waiting until we need walkers to have that much time off. He explains situations annually. I'm fine since I'm a teacher -- for summer - though I can't get more than a weekend plus a day during the winter.


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