# Respecting my parents investment - looking for a way to make it work...



## PhilD41 (Mar 2, 2021)

The above is a long title, but that is essentially what my wife and I are trying to do. My parents have invested more than I care to think about into Wyndham. I won't say it was wrong, or right. They were trying to (and in many ways did) give my brother and I something they never had, and I appreciate that. For the most part, they have always used their points in a way that they, or family, received more then they paid in MF. To my wife's credit... she continually reminds me that is partly like saving $100 on a TV that was $200 more expensive than what you would have bought without the "sale." You still lose money.

So here is where we are. They have 1.4M points as founders. All but about 100K is in CWA with MF of way too much. My brother and I are on the main deed and he and his wife have already said they aren't too interested in keeping it, due to the cost, once my parents pass. They probably have several years left, and, at least for now, are paying the MF. Both of them have degrading memory and won't be able to work these types of details for much longer, so I am taking over. What I have learned is that my parents tried hard to minimize the cost of the TS and have probably spent 10's of $K they should not have chasing "needed" programs, certain levels and the right deeds. Just to end up in the most expensive ownership possible... go figure.

To that end, once my parents pass, or are of a level of diminished mental ability to not be able to use the TS anymore, I am willing to talk away. I am pretty sure that is exactly what most here will tell me to do. I have no desire to give Wyndham another dime to move points to New York or any other select deed after they convinced my parents to move everything out of a select deed at significant cost. We really do enjoy the properties and flexibility of Wyndham... but, there is a special circle in Dante's Hell for their sales reps. Just my personal opinion. I have also learned enough to know that none of their programs work, regardless of how "good" they look. Point conversions for things other than stays are WAY over priced, rentals through Wyndham is plain robbery and I can use their credit card to pay MF but I can pay more MF by using my own cashback card. I can get discounts, but not if I want to actually plan a vacation more than three months in advance and their upgrades aren't dependable enough to count on if you really need the space (family of 7 here). 

All of that to say or ask, what options are there? Would it be worth trying to rent weeks on TUG with the extra points to offset MF? Can you even rent a stay for the cost of MF? Are there other programs I should look into? I have looked at several of the last minute rentals here and have yet to have available to offer anything. I know I can shed points and considered dropping down to 750K points and moving to a place like New York, but even doing that was going to cost $40K. Sure, it would eventually "pay for itself" in reduced MF, but at that point I could just walk away and vacation with Airbnb or renting from others here and still be ahead... maybe. Anyway... I would love to hear the wisdom from the board here? We can afford it, just deciding if we should. We live in Iowa so it requires flights to get just about anywhere. We also tend to live and vacation simply, but it would be nice to not always have to.


----------



## R1964 (Mar 2, 2021)

If you decide you want out Wyndham has a program called ovations where they will take back ownership. I used the program to help my parents get rid of one of there Wyndham properites. Here's a link https://clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com/us/en/help/certified-exit


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 2, 2021)

Thank you R1964. I have seen the Ovations program mentioned. I am also pretty sure our deeds have an option to return / walk away / exit / not sure the term. We wouldn't get anything from them, but we wouldn't have MF either. As I think about it, it may actually be the Certify Exit program, not sure. Anyway, all of the deeds are paid for so we don't have any costs outside of MF.


----------



## needhelp (Mar 2, 2021)

I have a friend that was also duped into buying more to switch her deed. In her case she did "trade" to National Harbour instead of CWA.
But to your questions, are the 1.4M points in different deeds? If so you can possibly have Wyndham take back some of the contract.
Since the expense for developer points has already been paid by your parents, I would really look at how you can use the program.  For each stay I book, I look up the price of a hotel in the area to compare. This is not an apples to apple comparisons because we normally stay in Hilton-Garden Inn's  if not staying at a TS, but in most case the TS is still cheaper per night.
Where has your family stayed before? 

If your brother is not going to want to take any responsibility for the TS, it seems like he should start the process of having his name removed. I don't know if you have to pay the transfer fee to remove. Does anyone know how one party can refuse the TS and other keep it?


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 2, 2021)

needhelp said:


> I have a friend that was also duped into buying more to switch her deed. In her case she did "trade" to National Harbour instead of CWA.
> But to your questions, are the 1.4M points in different deeds? If so you can possibly have Wyndham take back some of the contract.
> Since the expense for developer points has already been paid by your parents, I would really look at how you can use the program.  For each stay I book, I look up the price of a hotel in the area to compare. This is not an apples to apple comparisons because we normally stay in Hilton-Garden Inn's  if not staying at a TS, but in most case the TS is still cheaper per night.
> Where has your family stayed before?
> ...



We have three deeds all but about 148K points are in the main CWA contract. A 109K are in New York select (long story there) and a smaller 48K CWA contract - the most resent they purchased to hit Founders since a sales person told them it would help reduce MF. Our family has good relationships and I am not too worried about my brother being on the deed. If we ended up changing them for some reason I wouldn't keep him on it and if he wanted to be removed for liability reasons I would be fine with that as well. At some point that will have to be cleaned up, but that can be later. When that time comes, if they don't have a way for my brother to be dropped without another purchase, that will make it easy, we will just exit.

I completely agree with trying to get use out of it, that is why I posted. We often compare local hotels as well. We have an annual week long trip up to the Dells at Glacier Canyon. We have done short weekend stays in Galena since it is really close, several stays in Branson, Pompano Beach FL, Chicago (before they lost it) and we have tried for several years to get to Yellow Stone or Steamboat Springs, but haven't been successful yet, not an issue with Wyndham. My parents use it several weeks a year and they provide stays for several of their siblings as gifts and as a place to stay in Nashville for regular chemotherapy visits for my uncle and his wife. So yes, so far we / they are getting more out of it than it is costing them.... I am just not sure it will for us once they are not using it.


----------



## bnoble (Mar 2, 2021)

I think there is only one sensible option: Keep what you think you can put to use, and give back the rest through Ovation/Certified Exit. My advice would be to keep at least enough to maintain Gold VIP, but that's up to you. I would also take my time making that decision, because once you give it back, you can't undo it.

It makes no sense to go to Wyndham and try to turn the CWA contacts in as equity towards a purchase at a lower-MF resort. As you mention, you will almost certainly never make the transaction cost back via reduced MF. You could instead shed all of the CWA contracts through Certified Exit/Ovation and re-acquire enough points for your personal use with lower MF, but you would lose VIP.  While VIP is probably not worth buying it might be worth keeping.

The most important part to me is this:


PhilD41 said:


> We can afford it, just deciding if we should. [...] We also tend to live and vacation simply, but it would be nice to not always have to


One thing I say often is that _*owning timeshares has not saved me money*_. That's because as a timeshare owner I take more vacations than I would if I wasn't a timeshare owner. Owning helps make taking vacations a priority--you are paying for them whether you take them or not, so you might as well take them. Having points/exchange deposits/whatever that are unspent encourages me to go looking for ways to use them, and then I end up planning other things (like work) around vacations rather than vice versa. I've also taken some vacations that I _never_ would have taken without being a timeshare owner, because the sticker shock would have been too great.

I've owned timeshare for almost 15 years now. My kids are 20 and 22. We were able to take some great and truly memorable vacations while they were growing up, and I would not trade those for any amount of money, period. As they establish their own families---and as my wife and I enjoy being empty-nesters---I expect even more fantastic memories made over the years.

So, maybe you and your family are worth the investment of the MFs every year? If you can afford it, why not at least try it on and see what happens?


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 2, 2021)

bnoble said:


> I've owned timeshare for almost 15 years now. My kids are 20 and 22. We were able to take some great and truly memorable vacations while they were growing up, and I would not trade those for any amount of money, period. As they establish their own families---and as my wife and I enjoy being empty-nesters---I expect even more fantastic memories made over the years.
> 
> So, maybe you and your family are worth the investment of the MFs every year? If you can afford it, why not at least try it on and see what happens?



I think you nailed it right here.... I am in my early mid 40's. I have enjoyed vacations at Bonnet Creek and other wonderful places through my parents' Wyndham. I know for a fact we have done things, even with our kids, that we just wouldn't have if I had to write the check. The other side of my brain tells me that we could for a smaller check than the MF.... but would I. I love your perspective, wisdom and insight. we are still a little over a decade away from empty nesting and probably at least three years away from having to make this decision. I am pretty sure I want my cake and eat it too by finding a way to offload unneeded points without loosing money while keeping them, and their perks, for when we do need / want them.


----------



## dgalati (Mar 2, 2021)

PhilD41 said:


> The above is a long title, but that is essentially what my wife and I are trying to do. My parents have invested more than I care to think about into Wyndham. I won't say it was wrong, or right. They were trying to (and in many ways did) give my brother and I something they never had, and I appreciate that. For the most part, they have always used their points in a way that they, or family, received more then they paid in MF. To my wife's credit... she continually reminds me that is partly like saving $100 on a TV that was $200 more expensive than what you would have bought without the "sale." You still lose money.
> 
> So here is where we are. They have 1.4M points as founders. All but about 100K is in CWA with MF of way too much. My brother and I are on the main deed and he and his wife have already said they aren't too interested in keeping it, due to the cost, once my parents pass. They probably have several years left, and, at least for now, are paying the MF. Both of them have degrading memory and won't be able to work these types of details for much longer, so I am taking over. What I have learned is that my parents tried hard to minimize the cost of the TS and have probably spent 10's of $K they should not have chasing "needed" programs, certain levels and the right deeds. Just to end up in the most expensive ownership possible... go figure.
> 
> ...


What you need to ask yourself will you use the points to vacation personally? Or will you decide on renting the points and do you have the time to invest on making reservations and putting up with renters. You can take the last minute rental route and spend countless hours searching for availability in the 60 day discount window hoping for free upgrades. You will be able to cover maintenance fees if you become a student of the rental game. Question is do you have the time to invest and what is the time worth to you besides covering maintenance fees? I personally make the system work for me most of the time renting from a VIP in the discount window. I also enjoy the free housekeeping, guest certificates, VIP upgrades & 50% discounts without any effort or the burden of paying maintenance fees. JMHO


----------



## Passepartout (Mar 2, 2021)

*PhilD41*
The first thing you should do if you are entertaining any thought of renting them for anything greater than $800/week, is to actually JOIN TUG. It's only $15 a year, and that can be offset by writing reviews, and will allow you to read reviews on thousands of other resorts and post ads min the TUG Marketplace. Those are not restricted to 'last minute' listings. Click on that Support TUG dropdown in the blue line above here.

What I know about the Wyndham system can fit in a thimble with room left over, but I DO know that TUG membership is the biggest bargain in timesharing.

Oh, and I DO know that timeshare is definitely NOT an investment, except as to provide great family vacations and memories.

Jim


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 2, 2021)

Do not walk away from that ownership.  You can use it for great vacations.  I am a big advocate in not throwing money away.  Keep the points and use them.  I don't know what your MF's will be, but if you tell us that, it might help you.  That is a great ownership.  I know because we have two founders' level ownerships, both bought inexpensively, as we were converted from Bali Hai and Shearwater weeks to Platinum very cheaply.  But I would never want my kids to give the points away, and our daughter rents them for us.  Now the other points I purchased resale, I would love to give those back.  They aren't worth much in this current climate of timeshare rentals.

As an example of a way I have recently used my Wyndham points:  I love options in RCI for Maui.  I love Kahana Beach Resort and Sands of Kahana.  We stay at SOK a couple of weeks a year in a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom.  It's 205,000 points per week plus the exchange fee, but owners pay much more than I pay for the same exact unit, even with the exchange fee.  That uses up a large # of points right there.


----------



## bogey21 (Mar 2, 2021)

I have always been a cut the cord kind of guy.  If I read you right, your parents may want to continue to use their Points but neither you or your Brother want the hassle and financial responsibility of owning the Points after they die.  If I am correct, this is what I would consider doing --

1)  Remove your and your Brother's name from the Account now...
2)  Have your Parents give you log-ins, code words, passwords - whatever you need to manage the accounts for them (if necessary) before they pass...
3)  Have them will the ownership to you.  You said your Brother wants nothing to do with Wyndham...
4)  When they pass decline the inheritance promptly...

This way your parents and you can continue to use the points, pay the MFs, etc as long as they are alive but you can cut the cord immediately when they pass.  This will leave it to the Executor of their Estate to give the Points back to Wyndham.  You will immediately be off the hook with no pain, no strain...

Others here who are 100% more knowledgeable than me re Wyndham will tell you how to effectively make use of the Points or sell or rent them.  And I'm sure they will be correct.  But I gather that is not what you want.  If I read you right, the above is what I would do...

George


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 2, 2021)

dgalati said:


> What you need to ask yourself will you use the points to vacation personally? Or will you decide on renting the points and do you have the time to invest on making reservations and putting up with renters.



Yep, this is in the equation as well. I know renting isn't "free" either as it can take quite a bit of time. I think I would easily take your route rather than buying in again... now that I have it though? That is my question.



Passepartout said:


> What I know about the Wyndham system can fit in a thimble with room left over, but I DO know that TUG membership is the biggest bargain in timesharing.



Jim, you can be sure a TUG membership is in my future... especially if I try to figure out renting.  



rickandcindy23 said:


> Do not walk away from that ownership.  You can use it for great vacations.  I am a big advocate in not throwing money away.  Keep the points and use them.  I don't know what your MF's will be, but if you tell us that, it might help you.



The MF's are just over $10K a year at this point. You can do a LOT for $10K! I agree that it is a great ownership... it isn't inexpensive. If their conversions were actually decent do I didn't feel like I was being fleeced for a plain ticket... or allow conversions for short notice trips it would be a MUCH better ownership. My wife and I found a last minute respite worker for our special needs daughter and took a trip to FL for our 20th anniversary. I would have been willing to use points for airfare to save some money but couldn't because it was within the 90 days. So, if you plan out a few months you can use the points for more (even though it isn't a great deal) but you don't get your discounts. If you wait to get the discounts, you have no option but pay out of pocket for travel. Anyway... I expect it is like that for a reason. 



bogey21 said:


> Others here who are 100% more knowledgeable than me re Wyndham will tell you how to effectively make use of the Points or sell or rent them.  And I'm sure they will be correct.  But I gather that is not what you want.  If I read you right, the above is what I would do...



George, you have it mostly right. My family has very much enjoyed the TS. I am just not sure it is worth the MF my parents are paying. I am honestly looking at ways to make it worth it or size it appropriately. We may not be able to, in which case we will cut the cord and call it done. Part of respecting my parent's investment (in the title) is not crushing their joy. I know what they have sacrificed for this and I know they believe they have provided us with something truly beneficial. It is worth loosing quite a bit of money to have them eventually die believing that. Especially if they are still able to pay the MF up until then. Even with that... I can potentially use the Certified Exit to have several years of use without MF if we choose to walk away. So, regardless, I am not sure it is a bad thing to have the ownership currently. I also believe I have time to research, like I am now, and make a well informed decision.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 2, 2021)

Yeah, those fees sound a bit high.  Our MF cost is under around $5.70 per thousand points.  I should figure that out for 2021 but haven't done it.  Renting timeshares in this day and age is tough.  People want what you don't have and don't care for what you do have.


----------



## bnoble (Mar 2, 2021)

PhilD41 said:


> If their conversions were actually decent do I didn't feel like I was being fleeced for a plain ticket.


We here at TUG can get caught up in getting the absolute best rock-bottom deal, and sometimes find it frustrating when we pay even a few extra dollars for something. But, sometimes the right question isn't "could I have paid less for this?" Instead, it is "Did I get good value for this?"


----------



## Sandi Bo (Mar 2, 2021)

I was probably in a similar boat to you. My Dad's maintenance fees are on the high side (deeded, but still higher than what I'd like to pay). But, they give us VIP Founders. What I've done is purchase a considerable amount of resale points that have much lower maintenance fees, bringing my average MF cost 
down. All points enjoy the VIP Founders benefits. Our family gets decent usage of the ownership, and I rent the excess points, helping to pay the maintenance (and then some). Renting is a lot of work, time consuming for sure. I started out only renting at the cost of my maintenance fees (and happy with that), but I've gotten better at it  The alternative (that you've already mentioned) is trading the CWA for better priced deeded contracts (but that will cost you, as you also noted).


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 2, 2021)

It's also to key to remember that what your parents for what they now own is irrelevant - it's a sunk cost. 

The only thing that counts is what your cash outlays will be going forward under the options you want consider.

I would take a look at what pieces you would realistically use, and compare that with what it would cost to do comparable rentals for those same accommodations.  Then make the decisions, after weighing in the non-cash considerations. 

Non-cash considerations I would weigh include:

the loss of payment flexibility that comes with ownership.  When you own, you will pay fees every year, whether you use or not.  Whereas, if you are renting, if you decide not to travel some year, you don't have payment.
potential issues and hassles associated with ending your ownership.  If you rent, you simply stop renting.  If you own there are considerations with terminating the ownership when the time comes.
the benefits from forced vacations.  When you pay the annual fee you feel obligated to travel and make use or it. I readily admit in my pre-timeshare days I was too stinting when it came to traveling.  Getting involved in timeshare forced us to take more vacations, and with bigger units (instead of hotel rooms) it has been more enjoyable for everyone involved.
Others will have other thoughts as well.


----------



## dioxide45 (Mar 3, 2021)

If the weeks are paid in full (no mortgages), perhaps it would be willing to invest a few hundred to sign over your and your brothers ownership to your parents so the weeks are 100% in their name. It sounds like they may be paying 100% of the costs right now anyway. If that is the case, that is what I would do. Then when time comes and they leave you, you don't have to take over the ownerships through inheritance. You can still offer them back through Ovation, but you won't be on the hook to pay any MFs while that process moves along.


----------



## Jan M. (Mar 3, 2021)

You've heard the people who are telling you to get out and how to do it. Please take the time to learn about what you will have from the people who actually know what they're talking about. 

Almost every owner who is any VIP level spent way too much. I'll give you the words of wisdom that someone else gave me. It's done, get over it and learn how to make good use of what you have because what you have is really worth having if you're gold or above. I'm so glad I listened. I learned a lot on my own, some from other owners I met at the resorts and still more when I found TUG.

Even with going nowhere for three months last year because of COVID we still had 128 nights just with Wyndham. All of those stays were booked within 60 days or less of the check in date so we got our discount and all but one time for just two nights we also got the free upgrade on the unit size. We also had another 8 weeks I booked through RCI. We recently returned from a 5 week stay at Panama City Beach that cost us a total of 98,000 points but at full points would have been 1,015,000 points. We have another long trip planned coming up shortly. Six weeks that will cost us 207,400 points and at full points would be 996,000 points. At our 2021 maintenance fees the cost of those 11 weeks is $1701.08, total. Your maintenance fees may be a little higher than ours but you get the drift.

A friend who was also at the Panama City Beach resort when we were there is from Iowa. She broke up the drive with a stay at the Nashville resort. I know she's stayed at Glacier Canyon and Sundara (Wisconsin), Galena (Illinois), Smoky Mountains, Great Smokies Lodge and Fairfield Glade (Tennessee) and the Branson, Missouri resorts and drove with no night on the road needed.

There are individuals out there who are point managers and will handle your rentals for you. However take a look on eBay and Redweek at the Wyndham rentals and see how other people do it.


----------



## Jan M. (Mar 3, 2021)

Take a look at Sandi Bo's last post on this thread: Adding My Children Name to My Account 

I don't want to sound like a Wyndham shill but I was saying this before Wyndham started using it. Learn to dream bigger. Read about other peoples memories and favorite experiences with staying at the resorts. You'll find yourself thinking that sounds like fun and we could do that.

I've always been the one who handled the timeshares and did all the planning. I'm good at it and I like doing it. At my suggestion my husband has been making an effort to learn more about what we have and how I use it in case something were to happen to me. He's liked traveling as much as we have the last few years and would be fine going on his own if I passed. It's been good to see him taking a greater interest when he's at the pool or hot tub and people are talking Wyndham stuff. For our upcoming trip I was looking at Mountain Vista in Branson and a resort through RCI in Hot Springs, Arkansas. That's something we've wanted to do but we've been to Branson before although it's been a few years. We'll already be staying at Reunion in Orlando with our son, DIL and granddaughters so when they leave we might as well keep going rather than drive three hours south to get home and then have me say in a week or two that I want to go somewhere and head north again. Then I mentioned that two weeks at Smoky Mountains in Tennessee and then two weeks Ocean Ridge (Edisto Island, SC) was also an option.  I knew he'd talked to people at several different resorts who'd been to Ocean Ridge and really loved it. A friend had recently talked about how much she likes Smoky Mountains and we haven't stayed there either. He really wanted to go with option B. I was pleased to see him excited and saying I want to do that, rather than just happy to go along with whatever I plan. Then I threw in another option but we haven't decided if we want to stay longer than two weeks at Ocean Ridge or go to Governor's Green in Williamsburg, VA for two weeks.. Someone here on TUG or in one of the Wyndham Facebook groups said how much they like Governor's Green. DH is a history buff and I'm sure there's Civil War battlefields in the area he would like to visit. We're leaning towards Governor's Green but waiting a few more days for the 60 day window to open so I can see what the options are to break up the drive to get back home.

It can be really hard sometimes to know the right questions to ask or to really understand what someone else is saying when you have limited experience. You indicated that keeping this won't cause you financial distress so give yourself ample time to get things figured out. By ample time I don't mean a couple of months; give yourself at least a year or longer if possible. If you jump the gun in getting rid of this and later figure out what you gave up you'll call yourself all kinds of fool. You may still decide that getting rid of it is what you want to do but you'll be making that decision from an experienced and informed point of view.


----------



## capital city (Mar 3, 2021)

The first thing I would do is stop thinking about the conversion prices. No one on here considers conversion for plane tickets, etc as an option, we pretty much pretend it doesnt exists at all. Just seems your a little caught up on your parents getting ripped off and Wyndham is out to rip you off some more. Which may be true but your not going to let that happen so move on. 

Consider this- would you throw something away that many on here would happily pay $50k, 60k or maybe $70k for? It doesnt matter at this point that your parents probably paid over $200k for it. I have no doubt that I would feel exactly as you do but I think you should take a step back and not let your anger for the Wyndham sales scum blind you of the fact that what your parents are giving you does absolutely have value.


----------



## Cyrus24 (Mar 3, 2021)

I'll be brief since you've already received a number of thoughts.

- Founders benefits are something I'd not want to give up.  The discount inside 60 days is the best you can get.  And being mostly CWA gives you many 13 month options at some very high demand, desirable, resorts.
- While your parents are still paying the MF's, try renting.  There are a number of facebook pages (and here on TUG) where you can list places you've booked, speculatively, or share that you have points to rent.  It is a bit of work to manage the rentals but it's a great way to offset your annual MF costs.  Least amount of work comes with booking 13 months out to rent weeks at Ski locations and Beach locations in Winter, Water Parks and Beaches in Summer, etc.  And then to finish off points usage, do the heavy discounted, inside 60 day, rentals.

I just started renting extra points in the last few months and it's been working pretty well for me.  I'm not interested in making a profit, but, I will admit that I have come out ahead versus my MF costs.  

Good  of Luck with your decisions.


----------



## dgalati (Mar 3, 2021)

PhilD41 said:


> The above is a long title, but that is essentially what my wife and I are trying to do. My parents have invested more than I care to think about into Wyndham. I won't say it was wrong, or right. They were trying to (and in many ways did) give my brother and I something they never had, and I appreciate that. For the most part, they have always used their points in a way that they, or family, received more then they paid in MF. To my wife's credit... she continually reminds me that is partly like saving $100 on a TV that was $200 more expensive than what you would have bought without the "sale." You still lose money.
> 
> So here is where we are. They have 1.4M points as founders. All but about 100K is in CWA with MF of way too much. My brother and I are on the main deed and he and his wife have already said they aren't too interested in keeping it, due to the cost, once my parents pass. They probably have several years left, and, at least for now, are paying the MF. Both of them have degrading memory and won't be able to work these types of details for much longer, so I am taking over. What I have learned is that my parents tried hard to minimize the cost of the TS and have probably spent 10's of $K they should not have chasing "needed" programs, certain levels and the right deeds. Just to end up in the most expensive ownership possible... go figure.
> 
> ...






capital city said:


> The first thing I would do is stop thinking about the conversion prices. No one on here considers conversion for plane tickets, etc as an option, we pretty much pretend it doesnt exists at all. Just seems your a little caught up on your parents getting ripped off and Wyndham is out to rip you off some more. Which may be true but your not going to let that happen so move on.
> 
> Consider this- would you throw something away that many on here would happily pay $50k, 60k or maybe $70k for? It doesn't matter at this point that your parents probably paid over $200k for it. I have no doubt that I would feel exactly as you do but I think you should take a step back and not let your anger for the Wyndham sales scum blind you of the fact that what your parents are giving you does absolutely have value.


Capital puts a great perspective on your situation. Many owners would be happy to take over a VIP ownership without a sunk cost. If you can afford the maintenance fees Learn the system and make it work for your travel needs. The sunk cost is gone and never will be seen again. Like I stated in a previous post you can also learn the rental game but be prepared to invest the time dealing with renters and searching availability. The rental game is very competitive and some owners are  willing to rent for less then their costs just to cover some of the maintenance fees.


----------



## dgalati (Mar 3, 2021)

Cyrus24 said:


> I'll be brief since you've already received a number of thoughts.
> 
> - Founders benefits are something I'd not want to give up.  The discount inside 60 days is the best you can get.  And being mostly CWA gives you many 13 month options at some very high demand, desirable, resorts.
> - While your parents are still paying the MF's, try renting.  There are a number of facebook pages (and here on TUG) where you can list places you've booked, speculatively, or share that you have points to rent.  It is a bit of work to manage the rentals but it's a great way to offset your annual MF costs.  Least amount of work comes with booking 13 months out to rent weeks at Ski locations and Beach locations in Winter, Water Parks and Beaches in Summer, etc.  And then to finish off points usage, do the heavy discounted, inside 60 day, rentals.
> ...


Unfortunately many owners especially Non VIP come out under water on their rentals. Most owners are not interested in becoming students of the rental game or just do not have the time or desire to educate themselves on the system. You can also thank Wyndham sales for selling owners on the strategy of buying more points to rent and cover all maintenance fees. IMHO this sales strategy along with owners no longer able to travel contributes to the excessive amount of rental points available which lowers the price below what many owners pay in maintenance fees. Last minute rentals shows the market pricing with a lot of weekly stays under the $800 maximum. https://tugbbs.com/forums/forums/timeshare-rentals-offered.45/


----------



## troy12n (Mar 3, 2021)

I'm going to throw something out there that may, or may not be an option...

I've bought in, at retail, 3 times. And have had many other "update meetings" which are sales pitches during which, i've had sales offers to convert ownership types.

To give background, I initially bought into Access. At at least 2 occasions while under Access, once at Canterbury and once at Lake Tahoe, the pitch was to convert from CWA to Deeded. For the primary reason to lower MF. The conversion was "free", but required a small purchase of additional points. The timing wasnt right, and honestly we didn't fully understand everything at the time.

Anyway fast forward a couple years, we bought more Access points, and at a future update, we were given this offer again. This time at National Harbor. So we took it. And MF went from ~$7.60/1000 to $4.25/1000 or something like that. The savings were significant if looking long term.

Here's what i'm suggesting, and this may not be possible... but either see about converting all of your contracts to deeded somewhere with a small purchase, or, and this is where i'm not sure if this is possible, convert downward from CWA to deeded somewhere in the Gold range. IE: turn in points down to 700-800,000 range. Perhaps Wyndham would do this at no, or not much cost. Give points back, in exchange for a different ownership type at a lower level... this seems win-win for both sides

Again, i'm not sure if this is even possible, but you want to get out of CWA because of maintenance fees.

If it was me, and i was getting ownership at founders level for free, I would make this work. But this is me, I understand this is a personal decision, I don't know your finances, obligations and other life factors...

I think if I knew my son would just throw away our investment, I would be kind of pissed...


----------



## troy12n (Mar 3, 2021)

Also, you say your name is already on the contract, someone mentioned removing it before the parents die. I was under the impression that once on it, you are on it... it's a one-way deal. The only way to get out at that point would be to turn in the contracts via ovations


----------



## Sandy VDH (Mar 3, 2021)

I have a VIPP now, I would never pay to upgrade to Founders, but that is water under the bridge.

At this point I would ignore what is spent to get here, and look at what your run rate is going forward.  If you, your family, extended friends, and some renting opportunities can make it work, then do it.  There is value you can receive from a VIPF level account. 

Invest in memories.  The kids will grow up eventually and may want to start traveling on their own as well.  I manage a VIPP for our family, 1 have 2 siblings and now that there are 5 neices and nephews that are in their 20s+, they are now also wanting to travel in the TS instead of staying in hotels, if they can.   It is what they grew up with and what they like.  They don't really like hotels only, unless it is the only option available at the location they want to go to.   I have a group of friends that travel with me, or travel on their own.  I have a handful that will rent from me if they can.

So think about how your usage and your family and friends might make it work.  If collectively they are NOT, then I might consider ovation, but I would try it out first and see how it goes.


----------



## bnoble (Mar 3, 2021)

capital city said:


> The first thing I would do is stop thinking about the conversion prices. No one on here considers conversion for plane tickets, etc as an option, we pretty much pretend it doesnt exists at all.


I agree 100% with this. In fact, it didn't even occur to me that @PhilD41 was talking about them!

There are really only a few things I consider using my Wyndham points for: booking Wyndham timeshare reservations, and depositing to RCI for certain high-value exchanges. If I had qualified points, I would also consider using ClubPass reservations of WorldMark inventory, but unlike PhilD41, I do not have any qualified points.


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 3, 2021)

Wow, so much good advice and worth while considerations. I don't know that I can take time to answer / respond to each one. I do what to make a few items clear. I am not angry at Wyndham. Annoyed, yes, but I get the business. I am not angry with my parents. We have used and have really enjoyed using Wyndham. There is, however, zero trust that Wyndham is looking out for me and how to best use their product. Maybe that is pessimistic, but history has told me it is not. As several have mentioned, the money spent to get us there is just that, spent. I am good with that. We also don't ever do conversions either. Haven't even consider it. I only brought that up as it was once one of their selling points.

I appreciate so many wisely suggesting not to rush into something here. I agree hole heartedly. Hopefully I am starting early enough to figure out a way to make it work. I also appreciate hearing so many say that although they may not buy into founders, they wouldn't discard it either. I do fully understand the gift we have been given. I just have to balance it with other uses for that money as well. We have several complicating factors (aging parents, special needs child with skilled nursing needs, mission work asperations) that have the potential to change over the next several years so I really just desire to know my options and have a plan at this point.

I also like the reminder that memories only happen once, and to think outside the box on how it is what I have. I have a few ideas already that I hadn't thought of. It is also encouraging to hear how many have had some success in renting. I don't know if I have the time to learn what I would need to know to do that well, or even the time to do it if I knew everything I needed, but it sounds like there is hope and time to give it a go.

If there are other suggestion or recommendations on renting... or just experience / stories on what not to do  that would be great. This thread has been very helpful already. Thank you!


----------



## dgalati (Mar 3, 2021)

troy12n said:


> I'm going to throw something out there that may, or may not be an option...
> 
> I've bought in, at retail, 3 times. And have had many other "update meetings" which are sales pitches during which, i've had sales offers to convert ownership types.
> 
> ...


This is what I call working the sales weasels over and using their game to get what you want at your price. Most sales weasels will use fuzzy math that will never add up and work the numbers backwards and forward. Be careful walking this tight rope as they do this every day and have a answer for every situation that may or may not be true . Bottom line walk in and know the system and all costs to purchase or they will hoodwink you into another purchase that will not be on your terms or to your benefit.


----------



## weleftmn (Mar 4, 2021)

One way to know how much you appreciate Wyndham, and will appreciate it in the future. 
Take a week vacation with your family at a hotel. Have your whole family in one room for the entire week, eat out for every meal the entire week, and share one small bathroom the entire week. 
Even for my wife and I, we are empty-nesters, we can stay in a hotel for a couple of days but beyond that, we wish for the space of our timeshare condo. I am pretty sure others feel the same way as this thread shows https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/it-is-official-wyndham-has-ruined-it-for-us.278985/.

I am partly convinced people don't take vacations because the thought of being cramped in a hotel room for a week is no fun.


----------



## heathpack (Mar 4, 2021)

Hello, I know zero about Wyndham but have one comment: it sounds like in some ways timeshare travel does not suit you.  Im talking about having a special needs child who perhaps can’t travel.  And the interest in doing some mission work.

Here on TUG, timeshare style travel works for most folks- by this I mean either booking way in advance or picking up bargains by availing yourself of last minute travel.  It’s often hard to be successful with timeshare travel planning on the “normal” timeframe of 2-6 months in advance.  Also- many TUGgers drive down the cost of ownership by leveraging their ownership into many weeks of travel- often more than your typical person can use, or more that possibly you personally can use in light of your specials needs child.

Timeshare travel also limits the locations you can travel to, and it involves an obligation to use your timeshare weeks over other forms of travel.  That can work great for many people but some folks would prefer to travel in a different manner.  Thats ok.  If you’re that person, then eventually you should get rid of the timeshares.

We are currently going through something similar.  For us the issue is the dogs.  We just prefer traveling with them vs leaving them.  So we’re starting to question whether we want to keep the timeshares or start the process of decreasing our timeshare ownership.  But: I’m not in a huge hurry to get rid of the timeshares because selling what I own now and then trying to replicate the ownership would be an expensive proposition.  We’ll take a little time to make our decision.


----------



## bouch181 (Mar 4, 2021)

weleftmn said:


> One way to know how much you appreciate Wyndham, and will appreciate it in the future.
> Take a week vacation with your family at a hotel. Have your whole family in one room for the entire week, eat out for every meal the entire week, and share one small bathroom the entire week.
> Even for my wife and I, we are empty-nesters, we can stay in a hotel for a couple of days but beyond that, we wish for the space of our timeshare condo. I am pretty sure others feel the same way as this thread shows https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/it-is-official-wyndham-has-ruined-it-for-us.278985/.
> 
> I am partly convinced people don't take vacations because the thought of being cramped in a hotel room for a week is no fun.




This is a great way to understand and appreciate what Wyndham provides. I took my family to a last minute deal for my sons bday to the Great Wolf Lodge in Ohio back in January. Nice place that the kids enjoyed. We only stayed two nights and the main topic of conversation was how cramped we felt in the room and how we wish we had a kitchen. We've become spoiled with Wyndham and do not like hotel stays anymore.


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 4, 2021)

weleftmn said:


> One way to know how much you appreciate Wyndham, and will appreciate it in the future. Take a week vacation with your family at a hotel.



Completely agree with this. With a family of 7 hotel rooms are pretty much not an option and needing two is a costly proposition. We stay in Branson for a few nights each way as we drive down to my wife's family in TX from IA. We have done this for years and it is such a blessing. A hotel just doesn't work. So yes, we have been ruined as well.



heathpack said:


> Hello, I know zero about Wyndham but have one comment: it sounds like in some ways timeshare travel does not suit you.  I'm talking about having a special needs child who perhaps can’t travel.  And the interest in doing some mission work.



This is certainly part of our consideration. We are on a waiting list for a placement for our daughter. This will provide a little more freedom. Travel isn't impossible, but it is limited. Often we have to plan in advance to have respite lined up so she doesn't have to travel (she really doesn't appreciate the changes in routine and doesn't handle it well.) As she is getting older she is also in more need of 24/7 monitoring and skilled nursing. Soon, she won't be able to stay at home regardless of our desire.  The missions would all be short term... just balancing the funds we use for our own entertainment and that which we use for God's kingdom. both have a place, both influence the equation too.

All good points and additional ideas / considerations to keep in mind. I do greatly appreciate all the input!!


----------



## Sandi Bo (Mar 4, 2021)

On the flip side, my father was always extremely concerned about saddling us kids with his timeshare. He called it the gift that keeps on taking. It really bothered him, he was always asking about inheritance options at sales presentations (insert eye roll), all kinds of bad and incorrect advice there. I became involved when he had paid someone to take his VIPP ownership off his hands (it all started with a phone call from my step-mother, "Sandi, guess what your Dad did..."). I was able to cancel the transaction, and asked him for a chance to see what I could do with it. He never 100% believed me that it was a good thing that we kept it. At the point I took over, I took over paying maintenance. That made him happy, but also cautiously concerned, always asking if I was okay.

I suspect you, too, have some of the feelings I did/do. I just had to prove to my Dad that he didn't make a bad investment. Figure that out!


----------



## dgalati (Mar 4, 2021)

Sandi Bo said:


> On the flip side, my father was always extremely concerned about saddling us kids with his timeshare. He called it the gift that keeps on taking. It really bothered him, he was always asking about inheritance options at sales presentations (insert eye roll), all kinds of bad and incorrect advice there. I became involved when he had paid someone to take his VIPP ownership off his hands (it all started with a phone call from my step-mother, "Sandi, guess what your Dad did..."). I was able to cancel the transaction, and asked him for a chance to see what I could do with it. He never 100% believed me that it was a good thing that we kept it. At the point I took over, I took over paying maintenance. That made him happy, but also cautiously concerned, always asking if I was okay.
> 
> I suspect you, too, have some of the feelings I did/do. I just had to prove to my Dad that he didn't make a bad investment. Figure that out!


It was what we did in our generation. Always tring to please and get our parents approval. Still doing it today picking up my dad every week to take him for a ride and to buy him lunch. It also gives my mom time to stop being his care giver for a few hours.


----------



## Troyrissa (Mar 5, 2021)

PhilD41,
I’m not sure if you have seen the ads in the Tug marketplace, but there is someone who is looking to rent a founders level Wyndham timeshare. She is looking for 1-2 million points. Willing to pay $7 per 1000 points. 

I read your posts yesterday so when I saw her ad just a little while ago I remembered you talking about what to do with your timeshare. Just wanted to make you aware.


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 5, 2021)

Troyrissa said:


> I read your posts yesterday so when I saw her ad just a little while ago I remembered you talking about what to do with your timeshare. Just wanted to make you aware.



Thank you. I am not looking at rent out all my points at the moment. We still use it a few times a year. Just learning how to rent out reservations to help cover the MF. I do appreciate the heads up though!


----------



## AndySamuels (Mar 6, 2021)

Personally I would drop the TS'. Why lock yourself into a huge annual financial commitment (MFs) + risk (assessments). Especially with 1.4M points: that is an insane #.

For that kind of $ each year you can take luxurious vacations frequently but without all the headaches.

Timeshares are not an appreciating asset: rather a depreciating and risky liability.

IMO

In case you do not mind the recurring and ever increasing MFs + assessment risk and all the hassles of planning / sticking with Wyndham + RCI. And are willing to learn how to use the VIP benefits and so on it may work wonders.

$6500 to $7000 a year is 30+ nights in a $200+ hotel room. Or far more nights at a lower rate. Having more SQFT or a kitchen never bother me personally. But that is very personal obviously. Sitting in a hotel room is not my idea of a vacation. Nor is preparing my own meals. But again: with large families I can see how that could be different. But even then there are always rentals with 100% flexibility rather than then the eternal commitment.

Even so: 1.4M points annually is a lot of PTO.


----------



## rickandcindy23 (Mar 6, 2021)

AndySamuels said:


> Personally I would drop the TS'. Why lock yourself into a huge annual financial commitment (MFs) + risk (assessments). Especially with 1.4M points: that is an insane #.
> 
> For that kind of $ each year you can take luxurious vacations frequently but without all the headaches.
> 
> ...


This is a valuable ownership.  I would never recommend giving it up.  We own this very thing.  I guarantee that you do not understand what this guy owns and how he can use it to his advantage.  

OP: I wouldn't give this up.  I would love to know the exact maintenance fees because if it's $7,000 a year, that is good.  50% discounts and upgrades, it's a great ownership, if you learn how to use it.


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 6, 2021)

AndySamuels said:


> Personally I would drop the TS.  For that kind of $ each year you can take luxurious vacations frequently but without all the headaches.





rickandcindy23 said:


> This is a valuable ownership.  I would never recommend giving it up.



Yep, this is pretty much what I am torn between. I am at least going to take the time to see if I can learn to rent (without loosing all my free time) and off set the MF. Rick, I posted it early, but MF are around $10K so it is pricey.... but it also has great benefits. If I can find a way into the rental market without taking on a second job I may be able to have my cake and eat it too. We will see.


----------



## AndySamuels (Mar 6, 2021)

Earlier on he mentioned $10K a year in MFs. That makes it harder to rent out with a profit unless you can get prime weeks / locations. Plus my assumption is that any agent is compensated (only reasonable) so that cuts into any ROI also.

Based on the # of rental listings on eBay and elsewhere I am not sure whether this is still this feasible.

Also given the frequent large contracts for sale really cheap on eBay recently.

$10K a year is a lot of post tax income.

How would one convert 1.4M points and founder VIP privileges into > $10K without spending countless hours dealing with rentals / an agent of a very considerable # of trips and/or very expensive prime weeks in top tier locations in large units?

Investing $10K a year elsewhere is probably far less hassle / risk with a very nice ROI.

Using exceedingly large TS contracts leveraging VIP benefits to beat MFs seems very convoluted to me. When you read up about ronparise and other large renters this can be very revealing IMO.








						[2014 Thread] Using Wyndham Points to rent out vacations for others?
					

1) Can you use your Wyndham points to rent out vacations for others?  Is there any regulation against this?  2) If you were to rent out your points, at point do you need to worry about taxes and records?  How would you calculate "profit"?  3) Have any of you had good or bad experiences...




					tugbbs.com
				












						The New Club Wyndham Website (General Discussion)
					

I personally do not define first available by me selecting a date. i used first available to get into Coconut Mallory resort in Ocean City this summer two times, and four-bedroom presidential's at Governors Green in Williamsburg two times   these reservations would be virtually impossible...




					tugbbs.com


----------



## dgalati (Mar 7, 2021)

AndySamuels said:


> Earlier on he mentioned $10K a year in MFs. That makes it harder to rent out with a profit unless you can get prime weeks / locations. Plus my assumption is that any agent is compensated (only reasonable) so that cuts into any ROI also.
> 
> Based on the # of rental listings on eBay and elsewhere I am not sure whether this is still this feasible.
> 
> ...


"Buy more points to rent and pay all maintenance fees" This is the strategy  that Wyndham sells. I refer to it being more of a hamster on a treadmill situation.









						That's A Hamster Wheel, But That's Not A Hamster. GIF | Gfycat
					

Watch and share That's A Hamster Wheel, But That's Not A Hamster. GIFs on Gfycat




					gfycat.com
				



The rental treadmill can be very crowded at times.


----------



## weleftmn (Mar 7, 2021)

Another thought to consider. You mentioned supporting ministries.
You could use your timeshare points to support people that have chosen a ministerial career. These careers most often do not pay well, are often high stress, and do not get a chance to unplug.  You could use your timeshare points to provide a vacation for people that have chosen that career. How much of the vacation you wish to pay for is up to you but at least give them a free place to stay. Giving them a chance to unplug and rejevunate allows them to come back into their ministerial role refreshed.
You have a lot of points, that could be a great ministry to some people that are likely living on the edge of burnout.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 7, 2021)

AndySamuels said:


> Personally I would drop the TS'. Why lock yourself into a huge annual financial commitment (MFs) + risk (assessments). Especially with 1.4M points: that is an insane #.
> 
> For that kind of $ each year you can take luxurious vacations frequently but without all the headaches.
> Timeshares are not an appreciating asset: rather a depreciating and risky liability.
> ...



1) - The depreciation has already happened. -  [ OP's parents spent the money]

What you are suggesting is like saying - your parents  just gave you a 5 year old Mercedes AMG for free and you should dump it for $ 0
because of the commitment to filling the gas tank.

2)- OK - so rent a Honda Fit instead of keeping the AMG because of the commitment to car ownership ?

3)- 1.4 million points is likely 6 weeks usage at full point price.for a 2 or 3 bedroom.
[ I am not an owner - but there are plenty of TUG members who are can help the OP learn how to use  cost effectively]

4)- I am not aware of a significant assessment risk to Wyndham point ownerships - based on my 5 + years of reading
TUG and the Wyndham forum.


----------



## AndySamuels (Mar 7, 2021)

Insurance and potentially repairs to drive a Mercedes AMG are most likely very high. Not sure that analogy makes a lot of sense. Plus an AMG, when not too old / with clean titles / low miles has a significant resale value. Definitely not $0. TS' usually do not. The write-off from purchase is usually 80% to 100% or even going into the negative when you need to incentivize to offload.

Also, cars once paid are free title with the exception of taxes / insurance. Assuming a $10K annual MF commitment is not something you can simply sell / return. And in case you default it could severely impact your credit. Plus VIP benefits do not transfer with resale so that is another downside of owning that many (relatively expensive) points.

6 weeks of vacation is exceptional in the US for most people who are employed full time.

$10K a year is a lot of $.


----------



## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 7, 2021)

weleftmn said:


> Another thought to consider. You mentioned supporting ministries.
> You could use your timeshare points to support people that have chosen a ministerial career. These careers most often do not pay well, are often high stress, and do not get a chance to unplug.  You could use your timeshare points to provide a vacation for people that have chosen that career. How much of the vacation you wish to pay for is up to you but at least give them a free place to stay. Giving them a chance to unplug and rejevunate allows them to come back into their ministerial role refreshed.
> You have a lot of points, that could be a great ministry to some people that are likely living on the edge of burnout.


I have done this.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller (Mar 7, 2021)

AndySamuels said:


> Insurance and potentially repairs to drive a Mercedes AMG are most likely very high. Not sure that analogy makes a lot of sense. Plus an AMG, when not too old / with clean titles / low miles has a significant resale value. Definitely not $0. TS' usually do not. The write-off from purchase is usually 80% to 100% or even going into the negative when you need to incentivize to offload.
> 
> Also, cars once paid are free title with the exception of taxes / insurance. Assuming a $10K annual MF commitment is not something you can simply sell / return. And in case you default it could severely impact your credit. Plus VIP benefits do not transfer with resale so that is another downside of owning that many (relatively expensive) points.
> 
> ...



If your giving me your AMG - I will take it /  no question
[I bought a Chevy Spark 5 months ago] - WILL STILL take  AMG

*******
- This Wyndham Founders level ownership is free to the OP / just like the AMG
Wyndham  Points do have a resale value - much depreciated from developer price but the value is not $ 0

There are TUG members working from Timeshares due to their ability to work remotely,
so 6 weeks of ownership does not mean you need 6 weeks of vacation.

$ 10 K - for some it is a lot / for others not so much.
I let others make that call for themselves.


----------



## PhilD41 (Mar 7, 2021)

weleftmn said:


> Another thought to consider. You mentioned supporting ministries. You could use your timeshare points to support people that have chosen a ministerial career.



We actually do this a lot, our own pastors, missionaries when they come stateside for furlough, even single mothers trying to transport kids across the country or just needing a weekend to reconnect spiritually. It has been a blessing. I would be willing to bet that half the reservations made between my wife and I, my brother and my parents are for others in the ministry.

To the other statements... is it a bad thing that I don't know what an AMG is?  As for the TS, it is a personal decision, but I GREATLY appreciate the different perspectives. I don't think there is a black and white right or wrong, but there is certainly a right for us... and I am not yet confident I know what that is. The claims, on both sides, add to the list of pros and cons as we evaluate.


----------



## AndySamuels (Mar 7, 2021)

__





						Mercedes-AMG Homepage
					

The official Mercedes-AMG website all about Performance Luxury: unique vehicles, exciting stories – and exclusive benefits as a Private Lounge member.




					www.mercedes-amg.com
				




AMG is a performance / luxury enhanced Mercedes.

The analogy is a "Cadillac health plan" for example.

Yes: obviously 1.4M points is a luxury item.

And there is no disagreement: those who can afford & desire it: amazing.

Realistically however both luxury cars and the top tier of TS ownership are way outside the median of the bell curve.

And based on sold eBay items the resale value of 1.4M points is maybe not $0 but not far from it when compared to original purchase value. Granted: those will never establish VIP status.


----------



## troy12n (Mar 7, 2021)

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> There are TUG members working from Timeshares due to their ability to work remotely,
> so 6 weeks of ownership does not mean you need 6 weeks of vacation.



I did this quite a bit in 2020 actually... equivalent of two weeks

My employer has since come out with a policy forbidding this because a couple people abused the situation, oh well, it was fun while it lasted


----------



## b2bailey (Mar 7, 2021)

Good for you to plan ahead.
Yes, lots of great advice to sift through. For sure, study the replies from people who own in the top tiers. (I own Wyndham, but not those levels. )
Here is my simple advice.
1. Don't spend another penny on this.
2. Try not to hurt your parent's feelings with any decision you make. Don't even mention your thoughts (to them) of letting it all go.
3. Consider using points manager while they are still alive. 
(Compare it to using a money manager when introducing the idea to your parents.)


----------



## weleftmn (Mar 7, 2021)

PhilD41 said:


> We actually do this a lot, our own pastors, missionaries when they come stateside for furlough, even single mothers trying to transport kids across the country or just needing a weekend to reconnect spiritually. It has been a blessing. I would be willing to bet that half the reservations made between my wife and I, my brother and my parents are for others in the ministry.


That is awesome.


----------



## jhoug (Mar 7, 2021)

I agree with Sandy VDH, Sandi Bo and Rickandcindy, others who already have VIP.  You already have it, you just have to learn how to make it work for you.  Walking away doesn’t make as much sense, and neither does Wyndham math —horrible conversion rates for Wyndham Rewards or maintenance fees, what is it now $0.23/$1.00?


----------



## boraxo (Jun 6, 2021)

We are in a similar situation though our parents are in better shape and still enjoying their timeshares. My parents own 2 weeks at Marriott Palm Desert and my wife’s parents own 1 week at Westin Cancun and a ridiculous # of points in villa group Mexico.

although we sometimes join them for Mexico trips that is not how I plan to spend my retirement as Mexico has become quite expensive (in the resort locatios) and just not all that interesting. Palm Deserrt is less expensive but even less interesting.

so we debate what to do when we inherit these “properties”. As others have noted the major sunk cost is already paid so it’s a question of how we really want to travel. I could see trading for Hawaii but that’s always difficult. We like skiing but plan to buy a vacation home in ski country.

we have taken out kids to Europe twice and likely will again - timeshares would have been completely useless for those trips and likely won’t be useful when we go to Japan etc.

we just bought HRC Incline Village and find trading for the desired ski dates a challenge though so far it is working ok.

i love the space for family trips but it just doesn’t fit our style of travel or the destinations or the time periods (usually less than a week at one location)


----------



## VacayKat (Jun 6, 2021)

I'm kind of late to the game, so I'll try to be brief. I'm guessing we're about the same age so this might be of help. We're a family of 5, and just had the youngest head to college. We bought resale to get Hawaii cheaper than hotel and not have to eat out, so we could afford to go when we had little disposable income. Over the years we made more money and made some calculated choices and ended up at VIP founders level. But we moved, changed jobs and a bunch of other things so using the time we have is difficult (~2.5mil pts). 

Here is my suggestion: as long as you're able to use it and it doesn't feel like you're using it at the expense of doing things you'd rather be doing, it's good to keep. But the moment you start looking at it as something that has to be used to get your money out of and you stop doing the things you like doing to do timeshare, it's time to get out. 
For e..g. I think that when we buy a house in Hawaii, it will be time for us to drop the timeshare, but we're at least 10 years from that. And when our kids graduate college, my intent is to give them at least a month vacation wherever they want to go... Europe, Japan, South America, whatever. The timeshare points will let me do that.  Even thought we dumped a bunch of money into our ownership, and it'll ouch when we do dump it, I won't hesitate because it'll no longer be blessing my life, it will be a burden.
Secondly, the initial investment money is gone, don't waste a moment thinking about it. The only thing you should think about now is whether the MF make sense to you. And as far as your brother/family, even if they say they don't want to use it, make sure they have a way to know what is out there in case they do want to go on vacation, having them pay you the cost of the points could make their vacation cheaper. I do that for a bunch of our friends, and it's great to be able to bless them in that way. I'd recommend keeping your brother on one of the contracts so you don't have to burn a guest cert. for it.
Lastly, if it helps you vacation, and you enjoy those vacations and you can afford to keep it, then there is no harm in keeping it. Make sure you and your wife are on the same page about it. It is likely you'll enjoy the vacations as your kids age and you'll be glad you took them. Then you re-evaluate. When your kids are all in college, do you still vacation the same way? If not, does time share make sense? Or maybe it'll be a job change or a move, or whatever. The great part about inheriting, you didn't put a cent to the ownership, so you don't have to calculate that cost in your evaluations.


----------



## troy12n (Jun 6, 2021)

boraxo said:


> We are in a similar situation though our parents are in better shape and still enjoying their timeshares. My parents own 2 weeks at Marriott Palm Desert and my wife’s parents own 1 week at Westin Cancun and a ridiculous # of points in villa group Mexico.
> 
> although we sometimes join them for Mexico trips that is not how I plan to spend my retirement as Mexico has become quite expensive (in the resort locatios) and just not all that interesting. Palm Deserrt is less expensive but even less interesting.



The decision is pretty cut and dry if it's a fixed week somewhere you have no desire to ever vacation, dump it. Same with Villa Group Mexico. If it's a points system in a location you don't want to utilize, it's definitely not your responsibility to carry on the inevitable maintenance fees just because of a perceived obligation to a purchase your parents in law made without your input. 

It's completely different if it was a Wyndham or Worldmark or other points based system you could and would actually use. 

Just say it as politely as possible, or if it's something that will come up in probate, just say no...


----------



## buddybailey (Jun 7, 2021)

I am in a different position than most people here, but realize you subsidize and enjoy it too!  We don't own, we rent.... and a lot!  I pay between $7-$9/1000 points and only rent less than 60 days out from a few owners that I have gotten to know quite well.  They all get the 50-60% discount and pass along the free upgrades too.  I probably pay them nearly $4,000 a year, which helps subsidize their fees and they still enjoy a few weeks with their family.


----------



## chapjim (Jun 8, 2021)

If you are thinking about keeping any of this ownership, keep it all.  Reducing to a below-Founders level makes no sense.  Get rid of it all and become a renter or keep it and become a landlord.

Edit:  One other thing!  Having more people on the account isn't necessarily a bad thing.  The prohibition of overlapping reservations becomes a nullity if you have more people on the account.


----------



## VacayKat (Jun 8, 2021)

chapjim said:


> If you are thinking about keeping any of this ownership, keep it all.  Reducing to a below-Founders level makes no sense.  Get rid of it all and become a renter or keep it and become a landlord.
> 
> Edit:  One other thing!  Having more people on the account isn't necessarily a bad thing.  The prohibition of overlapping reservations becomes a nullity if you have more people on the account.


Exactly! We took over my husband's parent's timeshare in part to consolidate to get to a higher VIP level but now we're looking at putting them back on so we don't have to burn a guest cert whenever we book something for them. Wish we had known this before we did it.


----------



## PhilD41 (Jun 9, 2021)

Thank you for all the input, suggestions and personal experience. I wasn't expecting this thread to pick up again, but since it did, I will give a general update. Thanks to pointers from several TUGers, I have been quite successful with renting and offsetting our MF. I have experimented with TUG, Koala, Facebook, Ebay and even Airbnb. There are certainly pros and cons to each. Hopefully this year wasn't just a fluke with soooo much pent up demand for travel. Assuming I can repeat the last 4 months next year there should be no reason to get rid of the TS. We still enjoy using it as well... in fact we just got back from exploring around Fairfield Bay with the kids and MIL.  Again, I appreciate all the conversations here on TUG and all of your perspectives!!

Grace & Peace!


----------

