# St John- Has anyone checked out Grande Bay Residence Club? I bought there--



## SunnyVI (Dec 6, 2013)

Just wondering if anyone has looked at it? I am very familiar with the TS on STT and STJ and the MF's on STJ (Westin) have always been too high for me to justify a purchase. I checked out GBR and it's a go! 

(Love the "Jeep Club" and "Yacht Club" options and joined both (offered as incentives for purchase).... 

We are so happy to finally have a place on STJ  Never ever been able to trade for it. 

Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on it.. 

Thanks!


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## DeniseM (Dec 6, 2013)

Did you buy from the developer?  If so, I guarantee you that it was not the best deal.


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## Weimaraner (Dec 6, 2013)

SunnyVI - I haven't heard much about it on TUG other than some discussion about whether it shows up in Interval. You mentioned MF fees but always remember that they are more likely to go up than down over the years as many of us have learned. I've seen an October week pop up on a Sunday morning but that was it for my sightings. It sounds wonderful since it has 5 star reviews on TripAdvisor. What's the Jeep and Yacht clubs? are they included in your week? did they talk about exchanging in Interval? I hope to check it out someday.


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 7, 2013)

Sorry, but lack of response of costs (purchase, MFs) and relevant details makes me suspicious.
As mentioned - great location and looks nice - and great benefits (at a cost) - I looked into it a while back (Terrace villa), and it is far (far) from anything close to a good deal.  I even had drinks with a contractor building GBR a while back (random meeting at Fish Trap and Beach Bar) and got some StJ scoop.

Unless SunnyVI (or anyone) comes up with the above details that makes any sense as why to buy from GBR (vs. the many other options of staying on StJ beyond WSJ) - I would take this with agrain of salt and typical TS (Fractional) speak.

What are the details - cost? Week? MFs? Etc.

Sorry - if this offends, but lack of real content about GBR makes me wonder...
Why so secretive?

Given that GBR is being heavily Marketed. Warning: if you search GBR on Google or YouTube and do not set privacy settings - be prepared to be constantly hit with targeted advertisement.  

btw - I love StJ (as most know) and could get a 2nd job working as the west-coast representative for the StJ tourist board.

Proceed with caution.


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 7, 2013)

SunnyVI said:


> Just wondering if anyone has looked at it? ...
> Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on it..
> Thanks!



Spent first two weeks of November in USVI on II Getaways. First week on STT at Frenchman's Cove in a two bedroom with friends ($1170). The second week was just the two of us at Grand Bay Resort in a one bedroom unit ($1675). 

This message is a memory dump of what I recall from our visit...there may be some fuzziness on some of the numbers due to an excess of Painkillers!  

This was our fifth trip to the USVIs. We've previously stayed at the WSJ twice - in a hotel room once and again in a two bedroom TS unit. We've also rented private villas on STJ.  While we consider STJ to be one of our favorite destinations, we have no interest in owning on STJ or STT. We are content renting when we visit. 

I have no vested interest in trying to persuade or dissuade anyone from owning at GBR... 

The sales process at GBR is very low key. We were never asked (and did not) to participate in a formal sales tour/presentation. GBR did host two happy hours at local watering holes during the week (Motu's and High Tide). Since I'm a fan of free cocktails I attended both  I spent a long time visiting with the GM of GBR...a very nice guy. 

Our unit at the resort was very nice. The resort website has descriptions and pictures of the units so I will refrain from describing them other than to note that the pictures are very representative and the one/two/three bedroom units come with parking spots.   

We found the location in town to be really nice. We spend most days on one of the national park beaches. Came back to GBR and could wonder to a local bar for a drink, then head upstairs to clean up and then walk to dinner and evening festivities. In the end, I had to admit that I found the in town location very much to my liking. Before we arrived I had thought the opposite. 

We would be happy to stay here again in the future. 



DeniseM said:


> Did you buy from the developer?  If so, I guarantee you that it was not the best deal.



Denise, I'm not sure that is a fair statement in this case. I know the standard TUG mantra is not to buy from the developer and to buy resale. But that's a hard thing to "guarantee" in all situations.

In all likelihood, a serious GBR "buyer" will have little choice than to buy from the developer. The timeshare units are very new, there is very little inventory (see below) and it's very unlikely at this time a serious buyer will find a resale unit available. Certainly, this may change in the future as owners look to exit their units - but right now there is little alternative than to buy from the developer.  

Of course, renting may be a better deal than buying (that's my personal take on STJ...but YMMV)...but someone that wants to own right now at GBR pretty much must deal with the developer. 

[Note...here's a place my numbers my be a bit fuzzy...but directionally correct...] GBR is comprised of 54 units.  There are studio/one/two and three bedroom units. Most have sold and are intended to be sold as full time ownership. Of the 54 units, 39 have been sold as full time ownership. Not long ago in an effort to increase sales, six units were carved off as "fractional" sales units. The GBR team likes the term fractional...I think they think it's more upscale than timeshare. But, clearly they are selling weekly timeshare units regardless of what they want to call them. 

With only six units available you can see why the inventory for resale may be limited.  



Weimaraner said:


> SunnyVI - I haven't heard much about it on TUG other than some discussion about whether it shows up in Interval.
> 
> What's the Jeep and Yacht clubs? are they included in your week? did they talk about exchanging in Interval? I hope to check it out someday.



Regarding II: 
Yes, they participate in Interval International. We stayed there on an II Getaway. They deposited about 30 weeks in 2013 in the Getaway program. It was thought it would bring in qualified prospects. As of our visit, they were not intending to make a Getaway deposit for 2014. 

I would think it is unlikely that you will see very much GBR inventory available as exchanges. First, there is so little timeshare inventory at GBR to begin with, second, from a maintenance fee viewpoint, GBR is a really expensive trader...I would think most owners would rent their unit rather than exchange it...BWDIK. 

Jeep Club/Yacht Club:

GBR owns a boat and several jeeps. 
For an additional fee at time of purchase your ownership (and maintenance fees) will include the use of a jeep during your stay (really good idea on their behalf).  During my discussions with them, they dropped the fee for the jeep club as the very first sales concession made...so I don't know what the fee actually would be. 

For yet another fee (I didn't ask how much) your ownership will include one day usage of their boat...check out the website for a picture. 




DavidnRobin said:


> Sorry, but lack of response of costs (purchase, MFs) and relevant details makes me suspicious.
> As mentioned - great location and looks nice - and great benefits (at a cost) - I looked into it a while back (Terrace villa), and it is far (far) from anything close to a good deal.  I even had drinks with a contractor building GBR a while back (random meeting at Fish Trap and Beach Bar) and got some StJ scoop.
> 
> Unless SunnyVI (or anyone) comes up with the above details that makes any sense as why to buy from GBR (vs. the many other options of staying on StJ beyond WSJ) - I would take this with agrain of salt and typical TS (Fractional) speak.
> ...



Here's what I recall from the real numbers...again, some fuzziness may exist here...it's been about a month...and those darn Painkillers. This is not an attempt to explain "why buy here" ... I could care less...this is just what I "remember" hearing...


They were selling both floating weeks and fixed weeks. How they will manage that with only six units available is a mystery to me! 
The two bedroom units are lockouts. Thus you can purchase a studio, a one bedroom or a two bedroom.
They had at least two seasons ... prime and off season...maybe more. I didn't really care so didn't really inquire. I asked about November weeks and February weeks.
I would never buy a studio so I didn't ask about those either. 
IIRC...A one bedroom November week would cost approx $22,000 with maintenance fee of around $900 per year.  A two bedroom unit was $36,000 with maintenance fees for around $1,600 per year. (Most of the math for a one bedroom was 60% that of a two bedroom.)
 Again...IIRC, a February one bedroom was $28,000 and a two bedroom around $45,000. I'm less confident I remember these correctly. 
 I was not buying... I was not negotiating...just chatting. Immediately, they thru in the Jeep Club and the first year of maintenance fees.  
 I would think that a serious buyer would be able to negotiate to an even better place than I got to...Again...I was just talking over Painkillers. 
I've not looked seriously at WSJ or other USVI locations so I have no idea how this stacks up financially. Nor do I care...no need to share a comparison for me  

My final thoughts: 

The service of the staff at GBR was outstanding!! Really! 
Our unit (One Bedroom) was great for two people...I would not have enjoyed four people in the one bedroom unit.  Not a great setup for four people. 
Lots of little extras...coolers for the unit, beach chairs, kozy's, bottle of rum and couple of cokes as pre-arrival gifts. 
Ended up as a fan of the in town location. 
I'd stay here again in a heartbeat.  (I'd stay at WSJ again too! And rent a villa too! And Frenchman's Cove too! ... And probably others I haven't tried yet too!)

FWIW

Safe travels 

bbb


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 7, 2013)

Thanks - this is by far the most info shared about GBR - other how great it is.  I checked on purchasing one of their terrace villa (pre-construction) but they were only selling entire villa (>1MM, not including MFs).

Did you see the House Hunters International where the Sales Director of GBR was being shown a 1Bd at GBR (LOL) and ended up buying on Gifft Rd? iirc, it was being sold for ~$750K.  But typical of HHI - no mention of MFs.


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## SunnyVI (Dec 9, 2013)

*Wow! Lots of responses!*

Sorry if I was being vague with my first post! I just was hoping to get feed back! So- they do have fixed and float inventory. I'm guessing the fixed inventory was done so that the owners at WSJ could line up additional weeks if they wanted a diff option. We went w/ float. There are four "seasons" as I remember and they sell all the big holiday weeks as fixed only, so you can't float into those (51,52, 7 and then a THX giving that goes bt 46/47 depending on the year it falls.

The season were divided (roughly) as follows and also determined the price:

Winter: jan-April$$$$
Spring: may-part of June$$
Summer: late June-early aug$$$
"Value" aka hurricane: mid aug- mid oct$
Fall: mid oct-mid dec.$$

We purchased 2 winter float 2 BR units that can be "locked off" for 4 weeks if we'd like. We plan on using them as 2 BR units for the near future. 

Each week was 49.800 (99,600) to buy and it's a 150 yr leasehold. We had an option to put 20% down (9.9% over 10 years), 35% down (4.9% over 10 years) or cash. We went w/ 35% down and were impressed with the rate (for timeshare!!). We will not use the full 10yrs to PIF but it's nice to leverage the cash for a couple of years at that rate, as we are earning a higher % in the current market... 

The MF's are roughly 1500/week but- that includes the 4 door jeep for the two weeks we were there, a cooler and beach chairs. We normally spend abt $900-1100 on a rental car for the two weeks we are there, so we felt like the 3k MF was really closer to 2k since it's also eliminating our car rental... We also pay to check a cooler (yes, we drag it with us!) so that hassle is gone and we don't have to worry abt chairs. Most places have had them for us, but some haven't or have been so worn, we've rented chairs for the week... 

We needed to justify it (MF's) even w/out extras built in, and for us- we are used to spending about $500-700/night in winter(typically Jan) for two bedroom homes on STJ in the winter- so we were okay w the MF. All in all, we've been spending 9-10k a year going there on our winter trip (house plus tax plus the car rentals). Now we will spend 3k on that. (We did look into Westin as well- the MF's were going to be almost 5k plus we'd pay property tax on top of that and still spend 900-1100 on car rentals. At that point, I don't remember much abt price BC I kind of tuned out.... The resort is not important to us... It's a bit of a turn off. But I think it was going to be abt $120k for price to buy 2 weeks winter 2 BR and they wouldn't include the feature "lockoff" allowing for a possible 4 week stay post retirement- post kid travel). 

We are very stoked abt the proximity to Cruz Bay. No more Parking downtown. Whew. I hate parking in Cruz bay but we love walking around before and after dinner.... That was a huge bonus for us. 

Hmm... What have I left out... Oh! They gave us goodies to buy- jeep club was covered for both of our weeks (1500/per week as a one time fee-3k)... Had 2 years MF paid (6k). They also paid closing costs and some other nominal fees that totaled abt 1k... Mainly we were happy for jeep and MF (9k).  We could have gotten some extra stuff/fees if we'd have gone 100% cash, but, again- more appealing to leverage the $$ and leave it in current investment.  Funny thing- we used out SPG Amex and got SPG points for the down payment. Love my spg points!!  

They did offer Yacht Club as an option and we were originally going to take it but decided to wait. It's $2500/week to buy (you don't have to buy one for each week) and then $350/yr in MF's. You get one day on the boat (35'- super nice boat) and it includes capt and boat. You pay gas, customs (for BVI trips) and gratuities. We originally opted in as a purchase incentive but don't feel as committed to boating.... We can buy-in in the future or rent the boat at a disc rate when we are there.... Any thoughts in this deal? 

We couldn't find any resales and they didn't seem to know of any on the market- not that they would have told US! Ha. It's a new property and as someone mentioned earlier- not a lot of units, so we went for it knowing it was perfect for our needs. We've been watching rates on the island go up (painful!!) as word has spread abt STJ (shut up trip advisor and island magazine!! Seriously! Geeze!!!). We figure with the rates going up, our break even (including the MF's) is abt 13-16 years... 

Pls feel free to add to this if I haven't considered something! We tried to look at lots of different angles when evaluating the pay-back on purchase vs continuing to rent from villa companies...


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 10, 2013)

Thanks for the info on GBR.  The last couple of posts is by far the most info shared.
My only caution is to be realistic and not over value based on fuzzy math.
There are many villa rentals available during low season on StJ with no upfront or ongoing costs.


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## beach.bar.bob (Dec 10, 2013)

DavidnRobin said:


> My only caution is to be realistic and not over value based on fuzzy math.
> There are many villa rentals available during low season on StJ with no upfront or ongoing costs.



Agreed !! While we love visiting STJ, we've found renting to be a really viable option. Unless you really want to be able to visit during prime season or over holidays ... think twice before buying - IMHO. 

FWIW

bbb


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## SunnyVI (Dec 13, 2013)

*Agreed!*

Def Low season has some fantastic rental rates! We will still likely plan on renting during low season as we also enjoy coming in August/September. We will get nice discounts at Grand Bay since we are "owners" now... But it will be tough to beat some of the rates I've seen out there during that time. 

A BIG kicker for us was the car... It's a built-in $500-650 weekly expense that this eliminates and brings the out of pocket costs associated with the ownership down...


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## DavidnRobin (Dec 14, 2013)

The car is a big plus - just be cautious of your expectations - once GBR is closer to completing sales - there could be a shift upward in expenses (esp MFs) - this is a common practice among TSs that are in sales.
They are in the Biz of making money - not giving it away (or breaking even).  Keep your expectation in check - and certainly report back after a couple of years goes by.


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