# ARDA Contribution



## AceValenta (Dec 1, 2011)

Do you have to pay the ARDA Contribution?


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## Pens_Fan (Dec 1, 2011)

No, you do not.


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## AceValenta (Dec 1, 2011)

Thank you! 

GO Pens! Great to have Crosby back!


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## curbysplace (Dec 3, 2011)

Before considering paying the ARDA fee (or for that matter any advocacy group requesting your money) you need to look and see what issues they are advocating for, both on a national level in DC and in any respective state where it may affect you. Often you may find these groups, though they have a name that sounds like something you favor, are not necessarily lobbying for your best interests.


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## yumdrey (Dec 3, 2011)

I NEVER pay ARDA for ANY of my week.
I don't support them.


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## AceValenta (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks for the input everyone! I took your advise and chose not to pay them. I just wasn't sure if it was useful or not. I wish Marriott when paying dues online would say it is optional.


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## kjd (Dec 4, 2011)

This question gets asked every year about this time of the year.  You can pay ARDA to fund their lobbyists to work against your interests if you want to.  When do they ever communicate with owners to determine what our interests are?  I don't recall ever receiving anything about ARDA except when they are asking for money.  I think ARDA is a tool of the timeshare industry and they do what's best for developers.

Just my opinion.


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## SueDonJ (Dec 4, 2011)

I haven't paid the ARDA fee and agree that it would be nice if they would somehow communicate directly to timeshare owners what they've done on our behalf.  Apparently there are TUGgers who know what to look for on ARDA's website, though, because several posters in this thread on the Starwood board have expressed support for them based on their help this year with the tax situation in Hawaii and with navigating resale scams.  If I owned in Hawaii or was more interested in resales, I'd probably look further into ARDA's activities before dismissing the fee.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 6, 2011)

kjd said:


> This question gets asked every year about this time of the year.  You can pay ARDA *to fund their lobbyists to work against your interests* if you want to.  When do they ever communicate with owners to determine what our interests are?  I don't recall ever receiving anything about ARDA except when they are asking for money.  I think *ARDA is a tool of the timeshare industry and they do what's best for developers.*
> 
> Just my opinion.



I don't care if people choose to contribute or not, but it really bugs me when TUGGERS think they know it all and have not even bothered to find out who the group is working for.  The group we are being asked to contribute to is ARDA-ROC, a PAC set up to represent the interests of timeshare *owners*.  The ROC stands for Resort Owners' Coalition.  It is not the same as the ARDA group lobbying for developer interests (which, by the way, or more often than not in the owners' interests too).


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## Big Matt (Dec 7, 2011)

I've never paid it and have owned Marriott for ten years.


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## CMF (Dec 7, 2011)

ARDA-ROC never bothered to ask me what my interests are. Maybe they are psychics AND lobbyists??

Charles


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## Fern Modena (Dec 7, 2011)

BocaBoy, Perhaps I don't know it all (and I said "perhaps") but evidentally I know more about ARDA-ROC than you do.  

"They" say it is a PAC set up to represent the interests of timeshare owners.  Well, who started ARDA-ROC?  Who are their lobbyists and who hired them?  When was the last time they consulted their so-called constituency?  Never, as far as I know.  When is the last time they communicated directly with their so-called constituency?  Again, never, as far as I know, and I have been in timesharing for neigh on thirty years.  Have you ever seen an accounting of ARDA-ROC's funds?  Me neither.

Any cause which ARDA-ROC chooses to support also benefits the developers.  They cause a tax to go away?  Sure, it benefits owners, but it makes it easier for developers to sell timeshare, too, so why should we pay?  The developers are getting the larger benefit.

I own at three sold-out timeshares, two managed by large management firms and one independent, and none of them support ARDA-ROC.  And neither do I.

EDITED TO ADD:  I just went to ARDA-ROC's website to take a look-see.  I found out that they have an Opt-In for receiving email notices.  I opted in, and will see what I get (news, or solicitations, or a good balance).  They list their member resort list, lots of biggies their.  Their member board (and remember this is ARDA-ROC, not ARDA) has 17 or 18 members, one of whom is described as "owner" without any further description.  The others are developers or related.  But there is *some* good...there is consumer information on the website (although IMHO it doesn't go far enough) and also a page with info on how to contact your legislators.

Fern



BocaBoy said:


> I don't care if people choose to contribute or not, but it really bugs me when TUGGERS think they know it all and have not even bothered to find out who the group is working for.  The group we are being asked to contribute to is ARDA-ROC, a PAC set up to represent the interests of timeshare *owners*.  The ROC stands for Resort Owners' Coalition.  It is not the same as the ARDA group lobbying for developer interests (which, by the way, or more often than not in the owners' interests too).


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## BocaBoy (Dec 8, 2011)

Fern Modena said:


> BocaBoy, Perhaps I don't know it all (and I said "perhaps") but evidentally I know more about ARDA-ROC than you do.
> .........
> EDITED TO ADD:  I just went to ARDA-ROC's website to take a look-see.  I found out that they have an Opt-In for receiving email notices.  I opted in, and will see what I get (news, or solicitations, or a good balance).  They list their member resort list, lots of biggies their.  Their member board (and remember this is ARDA-ROC, not ARDA) has 17 or 18 members, one of whom is described as "owner" without any further description.  The others are developers or related.  But there is *some* good...there is consumer information on the website (although IMHO it doesn't go far enough) and also a page with info on how to contact your legislators.
> 
> Fern


So I do not know about ARDA-ROC and you know more?  Apparently you just went to their web site for the very first time and found you could ask for information!  Maybe that is why you have never gotten anything from them.  Pretty impressive for an expert.  And because the legislative interests of timeshare owners are usually the same as the developers' interests, that somehow makes a PAC who advocates for the joint interests an evil anti-owner entity?  WOW.  I bow to the depth of your expertise.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 8, 2011)

The problem here is that Marriott doesn't indicate who the money is going to. From the Maintenance Fee section of the website:



> It is the mission of the American Resort Development Association to foster and *promote the growth of the industry and to serve its members *through education; public relations and communications; legislative advocacy; membership development; and ethics enforcement.
> 
> The American Resort Development Association (ARDA) is the Washington, D.C.-based trade association representing the vacation ownership and resort development industries. Established in 1969 as the American Land Development Association, ARDA today has close to 1000 members, ranging from privately held companies to major corporations, in the U.S. and overseas.
> 
> ...



Looking at that, there is no indication that the money is going to the ROC. It appears that it is going to a 1000 member ARDA. Those 1000 members are primarily resort developers. Resort owners can't become members. What I bolded is key. Serve their members, not us.

IMO the developers are making money off of the owners all the time. They are already contributing to the ARDA, since the customer pays for everything, I am already paying that through the management fees in the MF payment. There is no sense in me giving more.

If they are wanting my money, they are going to have to do a better job to get their information to me. A three paragraph blurb with our MF bill isn't going to cut it.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 8, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> So I do not know about ARDA-ROC and you know more?  Apparently you just went to their web site for the very first time and found you could ask for information!  Maybe that is why you have never gotten anything from them.  Pretty impressive for an expert.  And because the legislative interests of timeshare owners are usually the same as the developers' interests, that somehow makes a PAC who advocates for the joint interests an evil anti-owner entity?  WOW.  I bow to the depth of your expertise.



Not surprisingly, this is pretty much the response I would have expected. I bow to your arrogance.


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## Fern Modena (Dec 8, 2011)

BocaBoy, Interesting how you pick and choose what to quote and comment about.  And I didn't say that it was the first time I had gone to ARDA-ROC's website.  I have been there before.  This website design is fairly new, perhaps a couple of years, and still not satisfactory.  Where is their accounting of the money spent?  If ARDA-ROC is a resort owners' coalition, why is there only one owner on the board?  You didn't address either of those items, did you?

Are you an owner?  Or an industry professional?  Care to divulge that?

Fern


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## BocaBoy (Dec 8, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Not surprisingly, this is pretty much the response I would have expected. I bow to your arrogance.


I was responding to a pretty offensive post.  You response is what I would have expected.  I was just waiting for this when I posted it.  Where is your criticism of the post I was responding to?

By the way, I periodically get a two page summary of ARDA-ROC activities.  You are quite something.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 8, 2011)

Fern Modena said:


> BocaBoy, Interesting how you pick and choose what to quote and comment about.  And I didn't say that it was the first time I had gone to ARDA-ROC's website.  I have been there before.  This website design is fairly new, perhaps a couple of years, and still not satisfactory.  Where is their accounting of the money spent?  If ARDA-ROC is a resort owners' coalition, why is there only one owner on the board?  You didn't address either of those items, did you?
> 
> Are you an owner?  Or an industry professional?  Care to divulge that?
> 
> Fern


I don't need to address every point in every post I respond to.  I was responding only to your claim that I was not knowledgeable and the your own apparent lack of knowledge as revealed in your postscript.  I happen to be a Marriott Premier Plus Owner.  I have been an owner since I bought pre-construction at Sabal Palms in 1987.  I have nothing to do with the industry except as an active Owner.  I was on the timeshare Board of Directors when ARDA-ROC was established.  There is more than one owner on the ARDA-ROC Board.  Many people who have other jobs are also owners of timeshares.  The concept of ARDA-ROC is the same as any other PAC.  It pools small contributions from many people who share common interests to further their common goals.  I am not advocating that everyone should contribute--that is their decision.  And how many organizations of any kind do you know that put an accounting on their web site?  I am only amazed that so many on TUG refuse to acknowledge that there are many issues on which the interests of the developers and the timeshare owners are the same.  We all need a healthy timeshare industry.


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## Numismatist (Dec 8, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> We all need a healthy timeshare industry.



Define healthy - healthy for who?  Developer-owners or owners who are not developers?


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## pedro47 (Dec 8, 2011)

Numismatist said:


> Define healthy - healthy for who?  Developer-owners or owners who are not developers?



Question ? Have does this group feel about Marriott dropping t/s from its portfolio ?

Is this move by Marriott a healthy decision for the timeshare industry ?


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## SueDonJ (Dec 8, 2011)

pedro47 said:


> Question ? Have does this group feel about Marriott dropping t/s from its portfolio ?
> 
> Is this move by Marriott a healthy decision for the timeshare industry ?



Do you mean, do we want Marriott's name to be off of our resorts completely resulting in no Marriott-connected entity managing the resorts?  I wouldn't want that at all because we like and take advantage of the Marriott-network of resorts/hotels and the Marriott Rewards program.  I think the industry overall would suffer if Marriott or any of the big name players got out of timeshares completely - no one management company could absorb the number of individual resorts affected in such a way that quality and/or competition wouldn't suffer.

Or do you mean, do we think that Marriott-the-parent-company spinning off the timeshares to a separate company is a good move for owners and the industry?  I think for the owners it could go either way but it appears to me that Marriott has taken measures to position the spinoff for success if the new company's directors are smart and careful.  I'm cautiously optimistic.  As far as the industry overall, Marriott's new direction will probably be followed by others because all of the big hotel/timeshare players share the same non-growth problems due to the depressed economy.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 8, 2011)

Numismatist said:


> Define healthy - healthy for who?  Developer-owners or owners who are not developers?



As I said, for everyone.  Both developers and owners need a healthy industry.  You really cannot have one without the other.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 8, 2011)

pedro47 said:


> Is this move by Marriott a healthy decision for the timeshare industry ?


As I opined in another post, I think it has the potential to be very healthy for both the owners of Marriott timeshares and the industry generally.  I have heard from several normally reliable sources that MVCI has been prevented from taking several promising business steps in recent years because of corporate constraints.  The new entity should be more nimble if they manage their business well.  I like what I am seeing so far.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 8, 2011)

Lets take a look at the ARDA-ROC Executive Board:



> ARDA-ROC Executive Group
> John Albert, Marriott Vacation Club International
> 
> John M. Burlingame RRP, Hyatt Vacation Ownership, Inc.
> ...



Looking at that list, I know who's side they will vote for when an owner interest conflicts with that of a developer.

While they may be owners themselves, they do know where their paychecks come from. IMO, this board causes concern if I were opting to provide donation to ARDA-ROC.


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## taffy19 (Dec 8, 2011)

CMF said:


> ARDA-ROC never bothered to ask me what my interests are. Maybe they are psychics AND lobbyists??
> 
> Charles


:hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical:


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## Numismatist (Dec 9, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> As I said, for everyone.  Both developers and owners need a healthy industry.  You really cannot have one without the other.



Sure you can:  You can have healthy developers sucking the life out of unhealthy owners who are trapped and can't get out.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 9, 2011)

Numismatist said:


> Sure you can:  You can have healthy developers sucking the life out of unhealthy owners who are trapped and can't get out.



That does not sound like a healthy developer to me.


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## GregT (Dec 9, 2011)

Numismatist said:


> Sure you can:  You can have healthy developers sucking the life out of unhealthy owners who are trapped and can't get out.





BocaBoy said:


> That does not sound like a healthy developer to me.



This is exactly what Wyndham does -- owners are trapped and are getting "fee"'d to death.   I have a nice little Wyndham EOY package where the MF's are $233/yr -- and Wyndham just raised the annual Program Fee to $98 (it was ~$45 two years ago).

I'm giving the week away now, because I had the choice to either buy another Wyndham to average down the excessive Program Fee, or get rid of it.  And I've added other systems since the Wyndham purchase, so its less important to me now.  So....I give it away.

I'll free up some MF money now and buy another Starwood or HGVC (maybe a Marriott -- maybe a Disney) -- but either way, the Program Fee (the second jump in two years) killed my enthusiasm for the Wyndham system.  

I'm very curious to see if Marriott goes the way of Hilton -- a high class organization that treats it owners well -- or Wyndham, where owners are viewed as captive audience to be milked.  This was something I questioned in my original June 21st diatribe, after they skimmed me 13.3% for one of the best weeks in the system.

All the best,

Greg


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## Numismatist (Dec 9, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> That does not sound like a healthy developer to me.



Does to me.  Continual income stream from trapped owners.  I'd like that.


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## BocaBoy (Dec 13, 2011)

Numismatist said:


> Does to me.  Continual income stream from trapped owners.  I'd like that.



Wow.  Great understanding of business!


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## Numismatist (Dec 13, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> Wow.  Great understanding of business!



I'll assume that's sarcastic.  Nonetheless, I do in fact have a great understanding of business as I have successfully run a number of multi-million dollar business.

Clearly there are two sides (aren't there to almost everything in life?), we are on opposite sides.  Seems doubtful that I'll convince you, likewise.

I will agree that developers who are consistently able to build numerous resorts everywhere and quickly sell them out - are, in fact, healthy.  However, doing that, does not make the individual timeshare owner healthy or unhealthy.

An individual timeshare owner who has limited means cannot continue to be nickle and dimed to death in every increasing attempts by develops/owners to extract money from them.  To them, this is not healthy.

Yes, there are also many individual timeshare owners that, to them, this is a trivial amount and doesn't even come up on their radar.  To them, more resorts to choose from is healthy.

We all know from reading here, that many people have been subjected to high pressure sales to buy something way out of their financial means and due to poor resale value are stuck with something horrible.  Yes, that is their fault; however, it's not healthy for them, it is only healthy for that developer.

I hope this delineates more precisely what I mean.

I respect your opinion as well.


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