# Disadvantages of Resale HGVC market



## mjack47 (Mar 25, 2015)

I have attended two HGVC presentations and they almost got me. The price is just way too high. However we did buy their VIP trial package and just returned from Hawaii using this package. We loved the accomodations.
     I see these deals on TUG and some seem too good to be true.  What are the disadvantages of buying resale over direct from HGVC other than the price. There must be something I am giving up. Thank Mike


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## TUGBrian (Mar 25, 2015)

Welcome to TUG!

I went ahead and moved your thread to the HGVC forum where other hilton owners can chime in and give you the correct answers!


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## Jason245 (Mar 25, 2015)

mjack47 said:


> I have attended two HGVC presentations and they almost got me. The price is just way too high. However we did buy their VIP trial package and just returned from Hawaii using this package. We loved the accomodations.
> I see these deals on TUG and some seem too good to be true.  What are the disadvantages of buying resale over direct from HGVC other than the price. There must be something I am giving up. Thank Mike



The only one I know of is that you can not get Elite Status (which most people will tell you isn't worth the premium). 

If you are interested in a guaranteed legitimate resale, you can contact one or both of the realtors frequently mentioned on the board. If you are willing to take a slight risk, go to Ebay and get an even better price.

Just remember, once you pull the trigger there is no going back, so spend some extra time researching and make sure that it is for you. Any price you see today can be got in 6 months.


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## semicycler (Mar 25, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Any price you see today can be got in 6 months.



+1 -- Definitely buy resale.  You will save a ton and don't give up anything valuable.

Take your time researching too.  The prices you see today will not change a whole lot.  Spend the time to research what fits you best:  location, unit size, season, trading off initial purchase price, ongoing fees, booking window size, etc.


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## mjack47 (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks to all for your comments. I have been researching but apparantly I need to do more. Everyone suggests caution. How often does Hilton use their right of first refusal on a bid of $2,00 to $4,000. After reading TUG several times you know what might be helpful for a newbie, a list of what all these abbreviations mean .


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## mjack47 (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks for your help semicycler. How do you like your Flamingo? That is one I am considering.


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## chrono88 (Mar 25, 2015)

Flamingo is one of the hgvc resorts that doesn't usually have right of first refusal.


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## mjack47 (Mar 25, 2015)

Great information.  Thanks . Any other resorts with no Right of first refusal that you are aware of.  Is there a reason or is this a reason to avoid.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Mar 25, 2015)

I believe some of the affiliate resorts don't have Right of first refusal, or if they do HGVC never uses it.

Think Flamingo is only true HGVC resort without ROFR.

I don't own at Flamingo, but it is a nice resort and very central location.


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## mjack47 (Mar 25, 2015)

*Impressed with Tuggers*



chrono88 said:


> Flamingo is one of the hgvc resorts that doesn't usually have right of first refusal.



I have been so impressed with the response and friendliness of Tuggers that I joined the group today. Thanks all


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## PigsDad (Mar 25, 2015)

mjack47 said:


> Great information.  Thanks . Any other resorts with no Right of first refusal that you are aware of.  Is there a reason or is this a reason to avoid.


ROFR shouldn't be a reason to avoid making an offer on a week, IMO.  If Hilton does exercise ROFR, you will get any money back that you put down.  The only down side is that you waste some time, but if you see a great deal, go for it!

Kurt


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## piyooshj (Mar 25, 2015)

Flamingo is good option, orland and vegas have cheap MFs so good pt/MF. Kingsland, Grand Waikikian and GI (new HI resort) also have good pt/MF ratio...If you want to close something guranteed without having to mess with ROFR Flamingo is a good option.


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## brp (Mar 25, 2015)

piyooshj said:


> Flamingo is good option, orland and vegas have cheap MFs so good pt/MF. Kingsland, Grand Waikikian and GI (new HI resort) also have good pt/MF ratio...If you want to close something guranteed without having to mess with ROFR Flamingo is a good option.



We bought Flamingo resale with the intention of using it in Hawai'i due to the lower MFs.

Cheers.


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## vacationbear (Mar 26, 2015)

piyooshj said:


> Flamingo is good option, orland and vegas have cheap MFs so good pt/MF. *Kingsland*, Grand Waikikian and GI (new HI resort) also *have good pt/MF ratio*...If you want to close something guranteed without having to mess with ROFR Flamingo is a good option.



Kingsland has probably the best points/MF ratio.
Its the reason why we are buying our 2nd TS there (will close escrow next month).
The location or home resort advantage is of secondary importance, we just want the points and explore the many other wonderful HGVC locations w/o having to worry about seasons or bedroom size...

Welcome to TUG!


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## semicycler (Mar 26, 2015)

The two main purchase strategies, always buying resale of course:

(1) Buy the best location for you and make it your home resort.  This allows for annual visits, no booking fee for your home week (need to confirm?), and 12-month confirmed reservation window.  This really helps for high demand locations like NYC or HHV.  You still have the option to book at other locations 9-months out.  The downside is the premium you pay a choice home resort.

(2) Buy the highest points to lowest fees location since points are points.  You might never actually stay at the resort you own, instead booking at 9-months at other locations with your cheaper points.  There is a trade off here on initial purchase price (platinum vs gold), and annual fees (2-bed vs 1-bed).  Many will look at 7000 pt platinum units or trade off 5000 pt gold/4800 pt platinum.  Las Vegas and Orlando tend to have better pts to fees ratios.  The down side is it can be difficult to book choice resorts at exactly the time you want.  But there are booking strategies that work (more researching for you to do...)

I chose option 2, going for platinum seasons in low MF locations.  I've been considering selling my two 1-beds 9600 pts total and replacing it with a single 2-bed 7000 pt location.  The 7000 pt Flamingo I got on eBay for a steal without ROFR.  Haven't stayed there yet.  The other two were market priced when I bought them getting close to break even had I gone with gold instead.


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## presley (Mar 26, 2015)

mjack47 said:


> I see these deals on TUG and some seem too good to be true.  What are the disadvantages of buying resale over direct from HGVC other than the price. There must be something I am giving up. Thank Mike



When you buy directly from Hilton, you can finance your purchase, they will give you one time use bonus points and if you buy 14,000 + annual points directly from them, you can get their Elite status. For most people, it isn't worth it. Here's some of the reasons why.

1.) If you finance your timeshare, not only do you now have interest payments, but if anything unexpected happens in your life and you need to sell, you won't be able to sell it without paying it off first. You see what resales go for.

2.) One time use bonus points are fun, but they have to be used within 2 years of the date of your purchase. Paying 60% or more to buy direct for bonus points doesn't pencil out when you do that math of how much you pay for the annual points when you buy retail. You can buy resale and if you need more stays, use cash on open season.

3.) The bottom level Elite gives small discounts on open season and few other things. It gives you gold in hhonors (the hotel program). Gold in hhonors is nice because when you go to the hotels (not the timeshares), they give you a bottle of water, free breakfast (if available) and free internet. However, you can easily get gold hhonors by opening one of the Hilton credit cards and you'll always get those same benefits.


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## Jason245 (Mar 26, 2015)

semicycler said:


> The two main purchase strategies, always buying resale of course:
> 
> (1) Buy the best location for you and make it your home resort.  This allows for annual visits, no booking fee for your home week (need to confirm?), and 12-month confirmed reservation window.  This really helps for high demand locations like NYC or HHV.  You still have the option to book at other locations 9-months out.  The downside is the premium you pay a choice home resort.
> 
> ...



Purchase stratagy number 3 : Buy the most points for the least amount of money (or no money) and be willing to pay higher MF.


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## brp (Mar 26, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> Purchase stratagy number 3 : Buy the most points for the least amount of money (or no money) and be willing to pay higher MF.



In the long run, though, higher up front costs and lower MFs makes more sense economically as the increased MFs will likely quickly overtake any savings from the lower up front. This is all subject to the specific number, of course, but is generally pretty true.

Cheers.


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## Jason245 (Mar 26, 2015)

brp said:


> In the long run, though, higher up front costs and lower MFs makes more sense economically as the increased MFs will likely quickly overtake any savings from the lower up front. This is all subject to the specific number, of course, but is generally pretty true.
> 
> Cheers.



What is your definition of the long run. By my math, the break even point is 10 years (assuming $300 MF difference and $3000 purchase price vs 0). 

In 20 years the unit cost you $3k more than someone who bought the lower price unit. In 30 years, $6k.  While not the least expensive option, in the long run $300/year might make more financial sense on a cash flow basis.


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## brp (Mar 26, 2015)

Jason245 said:


> What is your definition of the long run. By my math, the break even point is 10 years (assuming $300 MF difference and $3000 purchase price vs 0).
> 
> In 20 years the unit cost you $3k more than someone who bought the lower price unit. In 30 years, $6k.  While not the least expensive option, in the long run $300/year might make more financial sense on a cash flow basis.



Fair point. The "long run" may not come soon, and present-day cash flow could be a consideration. With available case, I still opt for lower ongoing expenses, but it's not a one-size-fits-all.

Cheers.


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## mjack47 (Mar 26, 2015)

We just came back from Hawaii on the Hilton VIP package. Stayed at Grand Waikikian and kings Land.  Loved them both ( but different appeal). Your plan of buying Flamingo and occasionally going to Hawaii is exactly my plan.  You must have done the math to make sure it works out.


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## mjack47 (Mar 26, 2015)

Your comment of long run is interesting. For background I am 68 yrs and retired. I want to go, go go. My wife is 56 and not completely sold on this timeshare idea. She works a little part-time. She is worried that  when I die she has to  pay MF and she does not want that. I understand her concerns. We have three daughters in their twenties but unsure if they would take over the MF. She has a good argument . Help > How can I sell her on this idea. I know personal problem.


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## Passepartout (Mar 26, 2015)

mjack47 said:


> Your comment of long run is interesting. For background I am 68 yrs and retired. I want to go, go go. My wife is 56 and not completely sold on this timeshare idea. She works a little part-time. She is worried that  when I die she has to  pay MF and she does not want that. I understand her concerns. We have three daughters in their twenties but unsure if they would take over the MF. She has a good argument . Help > How can I sell her on this idea. I know personal problem.



Don't put their names on the deed or note and instruct them to refuse the inheritance. Done deal. Nobody has to accept any inheritance, especially one with dubious value and ongoing expense.
You might ask your friendly attorney or advisor.
Jim


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## Jason245 (Mar 26, 2015)

mjack47 said:


> Your comment of long run is interesting. For background I am 68 yrs and retired. I want to go, go go. My wife is 56 and not completely sold on this timeshare idea. She works a little part-time. She is worried that  when I die she has to  pay MF and she does not want that. I understand her concerns. We have three daughters in their twenties but unsure if they would take over the MF. She has a good argument . Help > How can I sell her on this idea. I know personal problem.



I know others will frown at my advise, but at your age, I would tell you to just rent something annually instead of buying into a timeshare with a required annual MF.   You aren't going to be traveling with your Kids, for the next 20 years, you aren't going to be  in peek health for the next 20 years. If I were in your shoes, I would just plan an amazing vaction every year with my wife and enjoy the fruits of the years we spent saving for retirement. 

Alternativly, buy an inexpensive RCI eligible unit and just stay in last calls all around the country/world (there is are a few that seem to be doing this).


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## Bill4728 (Mar 26, 2015)

mjack47 said:


> Your comment of long run is interesting. For background I am 68 yrs and retired. I want to go, go go. My wife is 56 and not completely sold on this timeshare idea. She works a little part-time. She is worried that  when I die she has to  pay MF and she does not want that. I understand her concerns. We have three daughters in their twenties but unsure if they would take over the MF. She has a good argument . Help > How can I sell her on this idea. I know personal problem.



You have many choices.  BUT since HGVC sell on the internet every day  your family shouldn't have any problem getting rid of your TS if they do not want it.  You may live well into your 80's  so do not hold back on buying just because if you die your wife may not want the TS.


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## brp (Mar 26, 2015)

mjack47 said:


> We just came back from Hawaii on the Hilton VIP package. Stayed at Grand Waikikian and kings Land.  Loved them both ( but different appeal). Your plan of buying Flamingo and occasionally going to Hawaii is exactly my plan.  You must have done the math to make sure it works out.



Actually, we bought Flamingo with the plan to *primarily* use it in Hawai'i 

We did book a Vegas trip for an upcoming race, but Hawai'i will be more common than Vegas.

Cheers.


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## mjack47 (Mar 29, 2015)

Just got back from Kings Land and Grand Waikikian, attached to Lagoon tower. Great time.Any questions.


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## piyooshj (Mar 29, 2015)

There are no disadvantages (significant) if any except elite. if there were then premium resale contracts would be selling for a $1 on ebay just like Westgate....


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## mjack47 (Apr 3, 2015)

Bill4728 said:


> You have many choices.  BUT since HGVC sell on the internet every day  your family shouldn't have any problem getting rid of your TS if they do not want it.  You may live well into your 80's  so do not hold back on buying just because if you die your wife may not want the TS.



Bill . thanks for your advice (opinion).  It hit the soul of my feelings. Bought Bay Club Hawaii  ( 7000) points yesterday. Cant wait


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