# MVC canceled my reservations for Christmas



## CHAIRMAN DW (Dec 3, 2017)

I received an email early this week that my reservations for 2 condos at Crystal Shores (Marco Island) on December 26th had been canceled. They stated do to hurricane Irma there would not be enough rooms available. I am at the Chairman's level and made the reservations 6 months ago when there were still rooms available. I am confident that all of the other rooms were not booked by deeded owners and also suspect that several of the rooms will be checked in by re-rents. I have played phone tag with the MVC rep. who sent the email but he has been very unresponsive. We called the MVC Chairman's line scrambling to find other accommodations, but they can't help saying that my points attached to these reservations will most likely not be deposited back into my account or even if they were would need to used by 12/31/2017 as I used points to reserve these rooms that would expire by the end of 2017. As you can imagine there are no properties available in FL to book for the last week of the year. Until I hear back from the MVC headquarters I am stuck with no accommodations for my 14 family members. I have came to realize I won't win the battle to get the reservations back, but at a minimum I should get the points back for use in 2018 or even convert them to Marriott rewards points so I could at least book a hotel.

Does anyone have experience with this situation?

DW


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 3, 2017)

Did you call the resort to see HOW MANY units are not in shape to be used? Desk clerks can be too truthful for sales/rental branches of the corporate tree.


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## ArubaOwnsRoytman (Dec 3, 2017)

Very sorry about whats happened to your vacation.

Marriott vacation club customer care department needs to work on possible compensation with you. in certain situations (like yours) points will be extended. As you pointed out finding alternate locations that can accommodate 14 at this point will be very difficult with destinations points. it is possible that some of the hotels participating in the explorer collection will have availability.  It will be a lot more points and you will need to book several rooms.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 3, 2017)

Do you hasve the Marriott travel insurance, or any travel insurance? Marriott has not shown this year to show any compassion in these situations. Others have reported similar situations and got nothing. They have to usually find other accommodations on their own or you just lose the points. Marriott is only providing the minimum that they have to based on the reservation rules. They are also protecting their own ownership rights over those of other owners. Other developers are going above and beyond what is required of them by the rules. The whole situation has soured our opinion of Marriott Vacation Club.


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## ArubaOwnsRoytman (Dec 3, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Do you hasve the Marriott travel insurance, or any travel insurance? Marriott has not shown this year to show any compassion in these situations. Others have reported similar situations and got nothing. They have to usually find other accommodations on their own or you just lose the points. Marriott is only providing the minimum that they have to based on the reservation rules. They are also protecting their own ownership rights over those of other owners. Other developers are going above and beyond what is required of them by the rules. The whole situation has soured our opinion of Marriott Vacation Club.



The travel insurance wont cover it if its 30 days or more after the hurricane.


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## GregT (Dec 3, 2017)

They canceled my reservation at Ritz STT and I got holding points, which I suspect you will get too. 

I’m sorry for this and it’s a regrettable circumstance for sure.   Good luck and let us know it goes!

Best,

Greg


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## CHAIRMAN DW (Dec 3, 2017)

Thanks for your replies. I will let you know how it turns out.


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## davidvel (Dec 3, 2017)

GregT said:


> They canceled my reservation at Ritz STT and I got holding points, which I suspect you will get too.
> 
> I’m sorry for this and it’s a regrettable circumstance for sure.   Good luck and let us know it goes!
> 
> ...


Greg, 
Did they extend the use year on your points? It sounds like an issue with OP is that his points expire 12/31.


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## suzannesimon (Dec 3, 2017)

CHAIRMAN DW said:


> I received an email early this week that my reservations for 2 condos at Crystal Shores (Marco Island) on December 26th had been canceled. They stated do to hurricane Irma there would not be enough rooms available. I am at the Chairman's level and made the reservations 6 months ago when there were still rooms available. I am confident that all of the other rooms were not booked by deeded owners and also suspect that several of the rooms will be checked in by re-rents. I have played phone tag with the MVC rep. who sent the email but he has been very unresponsive. We called the MVC Chairman's line scrambling to find other accommodations, but they can't help saying that my points attached to these reservations will most likely not be deposited back into my account or even if they were would need to used by 12/31/2017 as I used points to reserve these rooms that would expire by the end of 2017. As you can imagine there are no properties available in FL to book for the last week of the year. Until I hear back from the MVC headquarters I am stuck with no accommodations for my 14 family members. I have came to realize I won't win the battle to get the reservations back, but at a minimum I should get the points back for use in 2018 or even convert them to Marriott rewards points so I could at least book a hotel.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with this situation?
> 
> DW



We Frenchman’s Cove Owners feel your pain. My 3 units for Christmas Week were just canceled last week.  There are no other options for usage either.  Marriott could learn a lot from Vistana on handling natural disasters.


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## CHAIRMAN DW (Dec 4, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Greg,
> Did they extend the use year on your points? It sounds like an issue with OP is that his points expire 12/31.



Nobody has gotten back to me. As of now it still appears that my reservations are active.


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## CHAIRMAN DW (Dec 4, 2017)

suzannesimon said:


> We Frenchman’s Cove Owners feel your pain. My 3 units for Christmas Week were just canceled last week.  There are no other options for usage either.  Marriott could learn a lot from Vistana on handling natural disasters.


Have you heard what they plan to do with your points?


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## suzannesimon (Dec 4, 2017)

CHAIRMAN DW said:


> Have you heard what they plan to do with your points?



Mine are fixed weeks.  I didn’t Elect Points.  I think you might get your points back if you can use them somehow in 2017, but I’m not sure.


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## GregT (Dec 9, 2017)

davidvel said:


> Greg,
> Did they extend the use year on your points? It sounds like an issue with OP is that his points expire 12/31.


No Marriott didn’t extend the life of the points and some had a 2017 expiration and some 2018 expiration.   

Best,

Greg


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## pedro47 (Dec 9, 2017)

Have Marriott offered to find you another hotel or resort in the area?

Who can the OP call at Marriott for Help? Are there any suggestions for this problem?
Tuggers, this could be anyone of us in the same situation.


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## GregT (Dec 9, 2017)

pedro47 said:


> Have Marriott offered to find you another hotel or resort in the area?
> 
> Who can the OP call at Marriott for Help? Are there any suggestions for this problem?
> Tuggers, this could be anyone of us in the same situation.



I do not think Marriott is going to be part of the constructive solution here.   I spoke to Customer Advocacy about my situation and while they were polite, they made it clear that there was nothing they could do to rectify the situation.  My situation was a little different from OPs in that the entire resort was closed, whereas OP's property appears to have some rooms that are open for business, and perhaps they are just canceling based upon the reservation time stamp.

Unfortunately, I don't think OP has any leverage in this situation.

Best,

Greg


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## tschwa2 (Dec 9, 2017)

suzannesimon said:


> We Frenchman’s Cove Owners feel your pain. My 3 units for Christmas Week were just canceled last week.  There are no other options for usage either.  Marriott could learn a lot from Vistana on handling natural disasters.


I don't think Vistana would do anything for their deeded non VSN owners other than perhaps allowing float owners to chose another week within their deeded float period for the same year.  I think if you own a fixed week with Vistana not part of SVN and the unit or resort was closed you would be out of luck too.  Wyndham extended certain courtesies to points owners but fixed week owners who never joined points were completely out of luck.  

I also wouldn't count on Vistana to be so magnanimous next time.  They never have been in the past and until this kind of thing happens a few more times and Vistana reacts the same way I wouldn't count on it ever happening again.


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## dioxide45 (Dec 9, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> I don't think Vistana would do anything for their deeded non VSN owners other than perhaps allowing float owners to chose another week within their deeded float period for the same year.  I think if you own a fixed week with Vistana not part of SVN and the unit or resort was closed you would be out of luck too.  Wyndham extended certain courtesies to points owners but fixed week owners who never joined points were completely out of luck.
> 
> I also wouldn't count on Vistana to be so magnanimous next time.  They never have been in the past and until this kind of thing happens a few more times and Vistana reacts the same way I wouldn't count on it ever happening again.


Vistana is allowing fixed (and perhaps float) owners in non mandatory phases of WSJ to deposit their week in to II even though there is no real deposit to back it up.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 9, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Vistana is allowing fixed (and perhaps float) owners in non mandatory phases of WSJ to deposit their week in to II even though there is no real deposit to back it up.


That's nice I guess that they somehow worked at a deal since both Vistana and II have the same parent company.  I don't think there are very many non SVN owners even in the voluntary section since it is the newer section and only resale owners would not be SVN.  But maybe there are more than I suspect.  I don't think they are actually backing those up with SJ weeks (which you never see in II) they probably made a deal to back the deposits up with other SVN weeks they bulk deposited.  

Maybe owners at Marriott weeks cancelled should see if they could get some kind of replacement weeks that Marriott already deposited with II rather than negotiate new inventory for 2018 in the Marriott system.  I would think having a Marriott deposit in II is better than nothing especially with the M to M exchange fee being $0.


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## Superchief (Dec 9, 2017)

Based on what MVC has been doing at their other resorts, I wouldn't be surprised if they are honoring Encore reservations while cancelling owners. I can't believe there are still a substantial number of villas still out of service, so it would be interesting to see what reservations are being honored and cancelled. Is there any way to get access to this information? How can owners make sure that MVC is honoring their contractual commitments in these types of situations.


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## JIMinNC (Dec 9, 2017)

Since the OP's situation is at Crystal Shores, my suspicion is that the reason they are short units is they had anticipated bringing a new tower into service before year end, but due to hurricane damage to the not-yet-complete construction, the opening of the new tower has been delayed until 2018. They specifically mentioned the delay to the opening of the new tower in last quarter's investor conference call a month or so ago. I suspect they had already taken bookings for that new tower in anticipation of it opening, so now they are short rooms. We obviously have no idea how they are prioritizing reservations and who gets bumped in this situation, but I suspect that is why this resort is still being affected this long after the storm.


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## JIMinNC (Dec 9, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> Maybe owners at Marriott weeks cancelled should see if they could get some kind of replacement weeks that Marriott already deposited with II rather than negotiate new inventory for 2018 in the Marriott system.  I would think having a Marriott deposit in II is better than nothing especially with the M to M exchange fee being $0.



That's essentially what II offered in the immediate aftermath of Irma if you escalated the cancellation to the II Customer Service group. But those were for cancelled II exchanges, not Points reservations. 

The OP appears to be dealing with a cancelled DC Points reservation, so that is a totally separate inventory bucket from the II deposits. I suspect the only way II might allow a week from their bucket to be used by a DC Points owner is if MVC deposited new weeks to II from the DC Trust. Otherwise, MVC would be taking weeks from II members to give to Points owners.


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## tschwa2 (Dec 9, 2017)

JIMinNC said:


> That's essentially what II offered in the immediate aftermath of Irma if you escalated the cancellation to the II Customer Service group. But those were for cancelled II exchanges, not Points reservations.
> 
> The OP appears to be dealing with a cancelled DC Points reservation, so that is a totally separate inventory bucket from the II deposits. I suspect the only way II might allow a week from their bucket to be used by a DC Points owner is if MVC deposited new weeks to II from the DC Trust. Otherwise, MVC would be taking weeks from II members to give to Points owners.



If restricted points can be deposited into II that is one thing cancelled reservations could be used for even if they are only good for flex and short stay weeks.  It may also be possible to convince Marriott to let them have a replacement week somewhere that Marriott pre deposited if they have any left for 2017 even if Marriott is unwilling to give the OP inventory they could use in MVCI.   The OP has been told no to points good in 2018.  Just a suggestion to ask for a Marriott replacement week even if it is an off season studio replacement week with questionable exchange power and less than 2 years shelf life.  Something is better than nothing and at this point if Marriott has any replacement weeks left they might as well give them out to the cancelled point reservations because they can't do much of anything with left over 2017 replacement weeks.


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## JIMinNC (Dec 9, 2017)

tschwa2 said:


> If restricted points can be deposited into II that is one thing cancelled reservations could be used for even if they are only good for flex and short stay weeks.  It may also be possible to convince Marriott to let them have a replacement week somewhere that Marriott pre deposited if they have any left for 2017 even if Marriott is unwilling to give the OP inventory they could use in MVCI.   The OP has been told no to points good in 2018.  Just a suggestion to ask for a Marriott replacement week even if it is an off season studio replacement week with questionable exchange power and less than 2 years shelf life.  Something is better than nothing and at this point if Marriott has any replacement weeks left they might as well give them out to the cancelled point reservations because they can't do much of anything with left over 2017 replacement weeks.



I don't think restricted points can be deposited into II.

Marriott's position through this whole hurricane situation has been that once a week is deposited into II, MVC has no connection to that week anymore. They see those as II weeks, and no longer MVC weeks. That's why when our II exchange into a MVC resort was cancelled this past fall due to Irma, MVC said they would offer no compensation even though we are MVC owners using a MVC week to make the exchange. They said an II exchange is an II/external week so all compensation/replacement/accommodation had to come from II. They basically said there is a wall between MVC-controlled inventory and inventory that has been deposited to II and is thus no longer MVC-controlled. Applying that same logic to the OP's situation, I think both they and II would probably say that any pre-deposited MVC weeks are now the property of II, therefore, MVC would not have the right to give a DC Points owner a week that had already been transferred/deposited into II.


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## pedro47 (Dec 10, 2017)

Thanks to all the responses.


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## MALC9990 (Dec 11, 2017)

We just checked into Crystal Shores today for a 7 nights DC point reservation. I guess we are fortunate that we decided to book a gulf side unit with a great view of the next door property, the Hilton which looks as though it is still not open but it is. 

The two new buildings seem still empty but I will check again tomorrow. Lots of work still ongoing and to get to our unit is a bit of a trek through the new buildings at the lobby level to the old buildings which brings you to the only lift in use for the old buildings at level 2 in the gulf front building. 

So if you booked a unit in either of the new buildings using DC points that may result in a cancellationsince they cannot give you what you reserved.


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## CHAIRMAN DW (Dec 11, 2017)

Superchief said:


> Based on what MVC has been doing at their other resorts, I wouldn't be surprised if they are honoring Encore reservations while cancelling owners. I can't believe there are still a substantial number of villas still out of service, so it would be interesting to see what reservations are being honored and cancelled. Is there any way to get access to this information? How can owners make sure that MVC is honoring their contractual commitments in these types of situations.


I also wonder the same thing. I wish I had the time to go down and check into it. I would bet there will be people there that booked after me and are not at the same level as me and also I think there will be several re-renters which is really not right.


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## JIMinNC (Dec 12, 2017)

Whether we agree with it or not, I think we have to recognize that the way Marriott Vacation Club handled the hurricanes this past fall is probably the new normal. In my opinion, it's because they are now a pure-play timeshare publicly-traded company. In the past, when they were a division of the much larger Marriott International hotel company, a hurricane disruption to rental revenue and contract sales at the timeshare division could be masked/compensated for at least to some degree by tweaking the rates/revenue from their hundreds/thousands of hotels which weren't impacted in other parts of the franchise. That way, they could lessen the negative impact and still perhaps meet Wall Street earnings expectations. That could allow the timeshare division to be somewhat more sensitive of owner concerns since their revenue disruption could be recouped somewhere else in the large, diverse company.

Now, as a smaller timeshare-only company, Irma directly impacted about 20% of the MVC resorts, so there was really no easy way for them to compensate for the lost rental and contract sales revenue. I think that's why they drew such a hard line in the sand and refused to bump renters and Encore packages in favor of owners. The rental revenue went straight to the bottom line and the Encore packages represent what they feel are their best sales prospects. Hanging on to as much of that revenue as they could as the resorts re-opened was the best way to mitigate the negative earnings impact. If they were trying to do their best to mitigate the negative earnings impact of the hurricane (which Wall Street tends to demand), rentals and Encore are the LAST people they might want to bump.

While that really stinks for us as owners, and it doesn't represent the customer service/owner service any of us would like to see, I think we need to expect that kind of an approach more often than not in the future. I also think that over time, we'll see ILG and Hilton Grand Vacations begin approaching these situations in a similar manner as they become more established as separate public companies who - above all else - have to keep the investment community happy. They obviously can't totally alienate wide swaths of their owner base and be successful for Wall Street either, but I think they will try to walk that tightrope and test our loyalty as much as they can while trying to maximize their non-owner revenue sources. Remember, the only recurring revenue Marriott Vacations Worldwide gets from owners is their property management fee that is paid by each HOA - and that happens regardless of how we use our ownership or our level of satisfaction. If we're not happy, we may not buy more Points, but that's where they have to walk the tightrope between keeping most owners happy and maximizing their other revenue sources.


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## VacationForever (Dec 12, 2017)

JIMinNC said:


> Whether we agree with it or not, I think we have to recognize that the way Marriott Vacation Club handled the hurricanes this past fall is probably the new normal. In my opinion, it's because they are now a pure-play timeshare publicly-traded company. In the past, when they were a division of the much larger Marriott International hotel company, a hurricane disruption to rental revenue and contract sales at the timeshare division could be masked/compensated for at least to some degree by tweaking the rates/revenue from their hundreds/thousands of hotels which weren't impacted in other parts of the franchise. That way, they could lessen the negative impact and still perhaps meet Wall Street earnings expectations. That could allow the timeshare division to be somewhat more sensitive of owner concerns since their revenue disruption could be recouped somewhere else in the large, diverse company.
> 
> Now, as a smaller timeshare-only company, Irma directly impacted about 20% of the MVC resorts, so there was really no easy way for them to compensate for the lost rental and contract sales revenue. I think that's why they drew such a hard line in the sand and refused to bump renters and Encore packages in favor of owners. The rental revenue went straight to the bottom line and the Encore packages represent what they feel are their best sales prospects. Hanging on to as much of that revenue as they could as the resorts re-opened was the best way to mitigate the negative earnings impact. If they were trying to do their best to mitigate the negative earnings impact of the hurricane (which Wall Street tends to demand), rentals and Encore are the LAST people they might want to bump.
> 
> While that really stinks for us as owners, and it doesn't represent the customer service/owner service any of us would like to see, I think we need to expect that kind of an approach more often than not in the future. I also think that over time, we'll see ILG and Hilton Grand Vacations begin approaching these situations in a similar manner as they become more established as separate public companies who - above all else - have to keep the investment community happy. They obviously can't totally alienate wide swaths of their owner base and be successful for Wall Street either, but I think they will try to walk that tightrope and test our loyalty as much as they can while trying to maximize their non-owner revenue sources. Remember, the only recurring revenue Marriott Vacations Worldwide gets from owners is their property management fee that is paid by each HOA - and that happens regardless of how we use our ownership or our level of satisfaction. If we're not happy, we may not buy more Points, but that's where they have to walk the tightrope between keeping most owners happy and maximizing their other revenue sources.



Great post.  I for one, will not drop another dime to buy more points and will in fact advise potential new owners to stay away from them.  We have an issue in getting the newly bought week enrolled which was bought as a bundle/hybrid package because they messed up along the whole way and they kept promising that it will be fixed, with days dragging into weeks.  It directly impacts our benefits level and the associated SPG/Marriott Elite status.  We just came back from a stay at Westin Mission Hills and spent a substantial amount on golf etc and we missed the platinum bonus points.  I am so sick and tired of working with Marriott at this point.


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## bogey21 (Dec 12, 2017)

Marriott was great when I started with them buying a Sabal Palms Week pre-construction back in the 80s.  I sold all my Marriott Weeks when I sensed the devaluation of what I owned and have watched with interest the stair step progression to where things are with them today.

George


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Dec 12, 2017)

JIMinNC said:


> Whether we agree with it or not, I think we have to recognize that the way Marriott Vacation Club handled the hurricanes this past fall is probably the new normal. In my opinion, it's because they are now a pure-play timeshare publicly-traded company. In the past, when they were a division of the much larger Marriott International hotel company, a hurricane disruption to rental revenue and contract sales at the timeshare division could be masked/compensated for at least to some degree by tweaking the rates/revenue from their hundreds/thousands of hotels which weren't impacted in other parts of the franchise. That way, they could lessen the negative impact and still perhaps meet Wall Street earnings expectations. That could allow the timeshare division to be somewhat more sensitive of owner concerns since their revenue disruption could be recouped somewhere else in the large, diverse company.
> 
> Now, as a smaller timeshare-only company, Irma directly impacted about 20% of the MVC resorts, so there was really no easy way for them to compensate for the lost rental and contract sales revenue. I think that's why they drew such a hard line in the sand and refused to bump renters and Encore packages in favor of owners. The rental revenue went straight to the bottom line and the Encore packages represent what they feel are their best sales prospects. Hanging on to as much of that revenue as they could as the resorts re-opened was the best way to mitigate the negative earnings impact. If they were trying to do their best to mitigate the negative earnings impact of the hurricane (which Wall Street tends to demand), rentals and Encore are the LAST people they might want to bump.
> 
> While that really stinks for us as owners, and it doesn't represent the customer service/owner service any of us would like to see, I think we need to expect that kind of an approach more often than not in the future. I also think that over time, we'll see ILG and Hilton Grand Vacations begin approaching these situations in a similar manner as they become more established as separate public companies who - above all else - have to keep the investment community happy. They obviously can't totally alienate wide swaths of their owner base and be successful for Wall Street either, but I think they will try to walk that tightrope and test our loyalty as much as they can while trying to maximize their non-owner revenue sources. Remember, the only recurring revenue Marriott Vacations Worldwide gets from owners is their property management fee that is paid by each HOA - and that happens regardless of how we use our ownership or our level of satisfaction. If we're not happy, we may not buy more Points, but that's where they have to walk the tightrope between keeping most owners happy and maximizing their other revenue sources.



JIMinNC, I would like to "riff" off of your comment. The business model for MVC is to sell points. The only reason for concern about the existing ownership base is they are potential customers for selling points. Otherwise, the ownership base's only use (from the corporate sense) is to pay for the upkeep of the product being sold. They are a "captive audience"; they have to pay, whether or not they get treated fairly or not. Because of that, it's not surprising the way owners are placed lower on the pecking order. They have to cough up the MFs. (with the threat of ruined credit ratings if they default) From the corporate sense, even a resale doesn't matter, the new owner will do the MF cough-up. The trick is not to get too much bad PR along the way, as that would hurt the selling of points. . .


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## MALC9990 (Dec 12, 2017)

MALC9990 said:


> We just checked into Crystal Shores today for a 7 nights DC point reservation. I guess we are fortunate that we decided to book a gulf side unit with a great view of the next door property, the Hilton which looks as though it is still not open but it is.
> 
> The two new buildings seem still empty but I will check again tomorrow. Lots of work still ongoing and to get to our unit is a bit of a trek through the new buildings at the lobby level to the old buildings which brings you to the only lift in use for the old buildings at level 2 in the gulf front building.
> 
> So if you booked a unit in either of the new buildings using DC points that may result in a cancellation since they cannot give you what you reserved.


Here is a quick update from Crystal Shores.
I happened to meet the GM in the lift lobby. Well, her ID Badge said General Manager.

The two new towers are not open. The work to finish them continues. I would say there will be several more months of work before they are able to open any of the new units. So, if you booked using points for a view in one of the two new buildings then you were out of luck and probably got cancelled. We are in a unit in the old buildings, gulf side so facing north at the apparently empty Hilton which is undergoing major renovation work.


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## Superchief (Dec 12, 2017)

MVC still has a contractual obligation to allocate inventory based on the source of the inventory. They would be breaking their contract if they allocate owner based inventory for rentals or Encore. If 60% of the inventory is based on owners weeks, they are committed to allocating at least 60% for owners reservations. The VC program has made it more difficult to determine how they are managing inventory, and there is no transparency. Treating owners poorly will increase the likelihood of legal action by owners, which will just cost everyone more money. They are being very shortsighted by showing no consideration for their owners. Owner referrals and complaints will have greater long-term impact on their profitability than cancelling a few Encore reservations.

The situation at Chrystal Shores is unique in that the villa views offered in the new buildings are actually different than those in the original building. Therefore, if the points reservations were for the new building and if its opening has been delayed, then the cancellation is legitimate (unless Encore or MVC rental reservations for the new building are being accommodated in the other buildings). I think MVC should at least allow these points to carry over into next year, even if they are restricted.


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## Superchief (Dec 12, 2017)

MALC9990 said:


> Here is a quick update from Crystal Shores.
> I happened to meet the GM in the lift lobby. Well, her ID Badge said General Manager.
> 
> The two new towers are not open. The work to finish them continues. I would say there will be several more months of work before they are able to open any of the new units. So, if you booked using points for a view in one of the two new buildings then you were out of luck and probably got cancelled. We are in a unit in the old buildings, gulf side so facing north at the apparently empty Hilton which is undergoing major renovation work.


Although I can't recall his name, I met the GM during my last two visits, so I doubt she is the GM. He had been there for several years and had no plans to leave. He was very proactive and concerned about his staff and guests.

I hope everything else at the resort is in good shape and you enjoy your trip. Let us know if you encounter any guests who are staying there on Encore or MVC rentals. The villas in the older buildings are actually larger (especially balconies) than they will be in the new buildings. Is the new pool and health cllub open?


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## dioxide45 (Dec 12, 2017)

Superchief said:


> MVC still has a contractual obligation to allocate inventory based on the source of the inventory. They would be breaking their contract if they allocate owner based inventory for rentals or Encore. If 60% of the inventory is based on owners weeks, they are committed to allocating at least 60% for owners reservations. The VC program has made it more difficult to determine how they are managing inventory, and there is no transparency. Treating owners poorly will increase the likelihood of legal action by owners, which will just cost everyone more money. They are being very shortsighted by showing no consideration for their owners. Owner referrals and complaints will have greater long-term impact on their profitability than cancelling a few Encore reservations.
> 
> The situation at Chrystal Shores is unique in that the villa views offered in the new buildings are actually different than those in the original building. Therefore, if the points reservations were for the new building and if its opening has been delayed, then the cancellation is legitimate (unless Encore or MVC rental reservations for the new building are being accommodated in the other buildings). I think MVC should at least allow these points to carry over into next year, even if they are restricted.


I am not sure that is the case. Say they have a property with 200 units. 50 are under Marriott control (Rental, MRP redemption, un sold inventory and Encore) the other 150 are reserved for owners. There is nothing in the reservation procedures that say if 100 units are out of comission that Marriott can't cancel 100 owner units and keep their 50 rentals and encore package guests happy and allocate the other 50 to owners all while cancelling 100 owner reservations. After all , Marriott owns those other 50 weeks for themselves and are considered owners too.


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## JIMinNC (Dec 12, 2017)

Superchief said:


> MVC still has a contractual obligation to allocate inventory based on the source of the inventory. They would be breaking their contract if they allocate owner based inventory for rentals or Encore. If 60% of the inventory is based on owners weeks, they are committed to allocating at least 60% for owners reservations.





dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure that is the case. Say they have a property with 200 units. 50 are under Marriott control (Rental, MRP redemption, un sold inventory and Encore) the other 150 are reserved for owners. There is nothing in the reservation procedures that say if 100 units are out of comission that Marriott can't cancel 100 owner units and keep their 50 rentals and encore package guests happy and allocate the other 50 to owners all while cancelling 100 owner reservations. After all , Marriott owns those other 50 weeks for themselves.




I didn't mean to imply by my comments in post #27 that MVC was unfairly reallocating "owner inventory" to rentals and Encore packages to boost earnings. (MVC calls the rental/Encore inventory "house inventory".) As dioxide45 notes, they may not actually be prohibited from doing this in a limited inventory situation like the hurricane aftermath, but we don't know for sure what they have been doing and how they are balancing house inventory and owner inventory when they lose units due to storm damage. (There's also a third category, "II exchange inventory", and we do know that is considered to be the lowest priority for honoring a reservation in a situation like they faced with Hurricane Irma.)

I think many of us were surprised and disappointed that, in the Irma aftermath, they honored at least some Encore packages in HHI and south Florida while displacing Interval exchanges and some owner-based DP reservations. As their executive office Customer Care manager explained it to me, they consider there to be a firewall between owner inventory and house inventory ("Firewall" is my word, but is descriptive of what she explained to me.) As a result, they will not cancel their house inventory reservations just to accommodate as many displaced owners as possible. I think at least part of this rationale is likely the revenue/earnings impact I referenced in post #27. As owners, we would obviously like for them to give us top priority in a reduced inventory situation, but they have clearly opted to keep the firewall intact and not do this.

What we DON'T know is, when units were lost to the storms, did they honor ALL rentals/Encore stays at the expense of cancelling more owner stays (as described by dioxide45), or did they perhaps try to keep the ratio that Superchief references intact, thus cancelling a proportionate number of house inventory and owner inventory reservations. Both scenarios could account for the fact that we know at least some Encore packages were accommodated in HHI and Ocean Point/Oceana Palms, while some ownership-based exchanges or DP reservations were cancelled.


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## MALC9990 (Dec 13, 2017)

Superchief said:


> Although I can't recall his name, I met the GM during my last two visits, so I doubt she is the GM. He had been there for several years and had no plans to leave. He was very proactive and concerned about his staff and guests.
> 
> I hope everything else at the resort is in good shape and you enjoy your trip. Let us know if you encounter any guests who are staying there on Encore or MVC rentals. The villas in the older buildings are actually larger (especially balconies) than they will be in the new buildings. Is the new pool and health cllub open?


I spoke with the operations manager last evening at the weekly cheese and wine social. He identified the lady as the new GM. She has been here for the last 6 months or so. Sorry, still cannot recall her name. However I do recall that she has a Caribbean accent to her speech. 

So more of an update from operations. In fact the new pool view villas are open and it is only the second tower that is not yet ready. The main delays are not so much directly related to hurricane damage but to the knock on effect. They were probably behind schedule and the hurricane impacted the work programme. So the final opening of the second tower will probably end of 1st quarter or late April. The new pool is planned to be open sooner. There will be a new pizza restaurant in the base of the final tower along with management offices and a new fitness centre and activities. 

The resort is shaping up to be really nice and we will definitely return. All I would say is that the poolside chairs could be replaced they are starting to show their age. We were last here 4 years ago and they were getting a bit past their use by date then and even more so now. Opening the new pool with new poolside furniture across all 3 pools would be a great idea.

Access is still an issue. To get to the only elevator to the old buildings requires a walk along at level 2 from the lobby to the far end of the resort and then up to the floor required. Access from the parking garage is via a set of elevators to the lobby level. Only two of those in use also.


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## Superchief (Dec 13, 2017)

Thanks for the update. Since you don't have a gulf front room, the balcony of the fitness room is a great place for a glass of wine while watching the sunset. I'm surprised there is a new GM because I really liked the previous one. There seems to be more turnover in GM's recently.


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## Dean (Dec 14, 2017)

Superchief said:


> MVC still has a contractual obligation to allocate inventory based on the source of the inventory. They would be breaking their contract if they allocate owner based inventory for rentals or Encore. If 60% of the inventory is based on owners weeks, they are committed to allocating at least 60% for owners reservations. The VC program has made it more difficult to determine how they are managing inventory, and there is no transparency. Treating owners poorly will increase the likelihood of legal action by owners, which will just cost everyone more money. They are being very shortsighted by showing no consideration for their owners. Owner referrals and complaints will have greater long-term impact on their profitability than cancelling a few Encore reservations.
> 
> The situation at Chrystal Shores is unique in that the villa views offered in the new buildings are actually different than those in the original building. Therefore, if the points reservations were for the new building and if its opening has been delayed, then the cancellation is legitimate (unless Encore or MVC rental reservations for the new building are being accommodated in the other buildings). I think MVC should at least allow these points to carry over into next year, even if they are restricted.


Certainly for weeks inventory being used by the owner this is true, after that I suspect they have far more latitude if they have to make choices such as IRMA. There is no obligation for lost weeks due to unavailability with the weeks side as I understand it and in reality, one could completely lose their ownership if a resort or portion were destroyed.  They might get some compensation from the insurance proceeds.  I haven't read the Trust points rules for such matters, I know DVC gives members the right to continue to use their points if they resort is out of commission but being repaired but not if their resort is deemed closed permanently.


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## Superchief (Dec 14, 2017)

MALC9990 said:


> So more of an update from operations. In fact the new pool view villas are open and it is only the second tower that is not yet ready.


If ChairmanDW had reserved a pool view villa, then MVC has some explaining to do. The only reason to justify cancellation is if the villa type is totally unavailable. All of the new building villas are in the trust, so Chairman level points reservations should have priority over all others.


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## MALC9990 (Dec 14, 2017)

Superchief said:


> If ChairmanDW had reserved a pool view villa, then MVC has some explaining to do. The only reason to justify cancellation is if the villa type is totally unavailable. All of the new building villas are in the trust, so Chairman level points reservations should have priority over all others.


I agree, it all comes back to what he actually reserved using points.


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## MALC9990 (Dec 14, 2017)

Superchief said:


> If ChairmanDW had reserved a pool view villa, then MVC has some explaining to do. The only reason to justify cancellation is if the villa type is totally unavailable. All of the new building villas are in the trust, so Chairman level points reservations should have priority over all others.


There are only 36 units in the pool view building. I counted the balconies. 9 floors with 4 units per floor. The unfinished tower is taller and longer with more units per floor. All face north and so have a similar view as the Gulf side units in the old building. They are of course further away from the ocean.

We all have a lovely view of the empty Hilton which is undergoing major redevelopment after a flood and a fire not to mention hurricane damage. Only it’s restaurant is open.


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## Beverley (Dec 18, 2017)

CHAIRMAN DW said:


> Nobody has gotten back to me. As of now it still appears that my reservations are active.


At the very least they should be allowing points extended in to 2018 even if holding since this was end of year .. December.  I would keep pressing with Customer care.  Wow!


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## dioxide45 (Dec 18, 2017)

Beverley said:


> At the very least they should be allowing points extended in to 2018 even if holding since this was end of year .. December.  I would keep pressing with Customer care.  Wow!


This doesn't seem to be their MO this year. Others in similar situations were told their points would expire on 12/31. No extension granted for compassion.


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## CHAIRMAN DW (Dec 18, 2017)

As of today I have no resolve or exact answers to what MVC will do for compensation. I was told that at a minimum I will receive 2 weeks (1 for each unit I lost) deposited with Interval to use in 2018. The customer advocacy manager that I have been working with did explain to me that the cancellations were solely based on the date the reservations were made. We made our reservations while we were at Crystal Shores in August and did get 2 of the final villas left in inventory at the time. So working backwards from the time the inventory was gone they canceled the number of villas that wont be ready by next week. There is no seniority in consideration at all. After hearing this it does make more sense and more tolerable to take. He did confirm that I will not get those points back and because they expire at the end of the 2017 I will lose them. He explained that if they were to give the points back to use in 2018 it would throw off the entire system. There are over 7,000 units or reservations affected system wide and counting because of the hurricanes and if we were to get our points back, that would be 7,000+ others that would lose a chance to book a unit in 2018. After I look at this from MVC's point of view, I understand they are in a really bad spot. In the end if I can get the weeks with Interval I will be satisfied and feel blessed that I am not a deeded owner in St Thomas. Thanks for all of the dialog it has really helped me thru this. I will keep you all updated on the final outcome of this.


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## MALC9990 (Dec 20, 2017)

CHAIRMAN DW said:


> As of today I have no resolve or exact answers to what MVC will do for compensation. I was told that at a minimum I will receive 2 weeks (1 for each unit I lost) deposited with Interval to use in 2018. The customer advocacy manager that I have been working with did explain to me that the cancellations were solely based on the date the reservations were made. We made our reservations while we were at Crystal Shores in August and did get 2 of the final villas left in inventory at the time. So working backwards from the time the inventory was gone they canceled the number of villas that wont be ready by next week. There is no seniority in consideration at all. After hearing this it does make more sense and more tolerable to take. He did confirm that I will not get those points back and because they expire at the end of the 2017 I will lose them. He explained that if they were to give the points back to use in 2018 it would throw off the entire system. There are over 7,000 units or reservations affected system wide and counting because of the hurricanes and if we were to get our points back, that would be 7,000+ others that would lose a chance to book a unit in 2018. After I look at this from MVC's point of view, I understand they are in a really bad spot. In the end if I can get the weeks with Interval I will be satisfied and feel blessed that I am not a deeded owner in St Thomas. Thanks for all of the dialog it has really helped me thru this. I will keep you all updated on the final outcome of this.


Thanks for coming back to us on this.


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