# Developer vs resale HKB?



## Formerexpat (Aug 1, 2022)

We are retired and can travel very flexibly. We own one EY float week at HKB and one EOYE float week at HKB. We are thinking we’d like to own 2 float weeks EVERY year. Is there a downside to purchasing on the secondary market? Our other purchases were from the developer. I understand it may be difficult to find EOYO on the resale market. Thank you for helping us understand the dynamics.


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## socaltimeshare (Aug 1, 2022)

Biggest downsides:  1. You will disappoint your sales rep.  2. You can't convert your resale unit into WOH points (but you shouldn't anyways  3. No guarantee you will find what you are looking for at the price you want (patience will be needed)  4. If you ever decide that unit/week doesn't work for you, you can't do an "upgrade" with the developer. 

In your situation, since you bought the EOYE float at HKB, this represents I believe 55% of the cost of an annual the way they are sold there (don't quote me on that).  If I'm correct,  your "upgrade" charge would be 45% of whatever they are currently charging for an annual.  Given the 55% sunk cost, it might be at least worthwhile finding out what the other 45% would cost, minus whatever incentives the developer is providing.  That would give you one less contract / one less annual club fee.  I know most of the time buying directly from a developer makes little sense but it is at least worth exploring.  Then, if you do buy resale, you will be informed of exactly what the differences are financially and otherwise between your two options.  If purchasing from the developer still looked viable after your research, I would recommend you first sign up for an Access package to get some more Hyatt points and some free nights (as the cost of the Access package can be applied to your purchase).  My understanding is you can even pay off the Access package early and then do the upgrade before visiting on the Access package. 

If you do want to buy resale, in addition to Redweek/TUGs/MyResortnetwork, check with the various Maui timeshare resale/rental companies as I saw a FB post recently that one of them had float resale inventory.


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## Formerexpat (Aug 1, 2022)

socaltimeshare said:


> Biggest downsides:  1. You will disappoint your sales rep.  2. You can't convert your resale unit into WOH points (but you shouldn't anyways  3. No guarantee you will find what you are looking for at the price you want (patience will be needed)  4. If you ever decide that unit/week doesn't work for you, you can't do an "upgrade" with the developer.
> 
> In your situation, since you bought the EOYE float at HKB, this represents I believe 55% of the cost of an annual the way they are sold there (don't quote me on that).  If I'm correct,  your "upgrade" charge would be 45% of whatever they are currently charging for an annual.  Given the 55% sunk cost, it might be at least worthwhile finding out what the other 45% would cost, minus whatever incentives the developer is providing.  That would give you one less contract / one less annual club fee.  I know most of the time buying directly from a developer makes little sense but it is at least worth exploring.  Then, if you do buy resale, you will be informed of exactly what the differences are financially and otherwise between your two options.  If purchasing from the developer still looked viable after your research, I would recommend you first sign up for an Access package to get some more Hyatt points and some free nights (as the cost of the Access package can be applied to your purchase).  My understanding is you can even pay off the Access package early and then do the upgrade before visiting on the Access package.
> 
> If you do want to buy resale, in addition to Redweek/TUGs/MyResortnetwork, check with the various Maui timeshare resale/rental companies as I saw a FB post recently that one of them had float resale inventory.


Thanks for such a detailed reply. Since we’re here in Maui now, we’ll look into meeting with sales. 
But may I ask…what is an Access package?


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## socaltimeshare (Aug 1, 2022)

Generally, the process is after you say no to your sales rep the manager will come out.  After you say no to that person a third person comes out for a survey.  Currently, Lyndsay or Vida.  Part of the survey is asking whether you still have any interest in buying a timeshare.  At that point, if you express interest in buying you should be offered an Access package.  It's their way of getting potential clients back.   The Access packages do change from time to time.  The last reported one that I saw was $3,094 ($2,999 plus $99 processing fee).  You pay the $99 upfront via credit card and then the rest is auto-deducted monthly over multiple payments. This grants you:

a) locked-in pricing on the week/floor band/ float you are considering as of the day you sign the Access package until you return on your Access package (which is good for 2 years) 
b)  5 nights in a 2-bedroom (they may have 1-bedroom access packages too for less - not sure)  
c) 25K in WOH points OR a $250 resort credit. 

Besides the $ paid, you are also agreeing to a 90-minute sales presentation when you return.  If inventory on the EOY float week you are looking at seems like it is going to sell out you can always pay off your Access package early, and 100% of all payments made except the $99 processing fee can be applied towards the purchase of your new timeshare.

So, even if you were100% sold on buying from the developer, the Access package is still strongly recommended.  By first signing up for the Access package before buying, you get the resort credit or WOH points PLUS an additional 6-night stay for basically $99 (since the rest is applied to to your purchase).

Keep in mind while the price is locked in the incentives aren't.  Those vary by market conditions (for instance during the pandemic there were some stronger incentives).  But, you would get whatever incentives are being offered when you did buy.  If you really liked the current incentives, you might still get the Access package, then wait a bit, then call to confirm current incentives and then maybe purchase.  They can then walk you through the steps, like paying off the Access package to apply it towards your purchase.


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## Kal (Aug 1, 2022)

It will be very difficult to find a resale float week.  Float weeks are available from the developer plus about 250,000 WOH points.  I believe with some effort you can negotiate the WOH points to 350,000.  Then too, you have to determine which floor band you want.  I have heard that the mid-band will become higher priced than the top floor band.  That's just market conditions because the mid-band is now in higher demand.  Probably because it's currently cheaper than the top band.  There are a limited number of float weeks in the building, so that puts more pressure on pricing and availability.


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## socaltimeshare (Aug 1, 2022)

Kal said:


> It will be very difficult to find a resale float week.



FYI there are two floats currently listed on Redweek.  Someone named Tom Roy also posted on the FB Ka'anapali group that he has resale float inventory.  I think he works for Maui Resort Rentals.  They can be found, it's more of a measure of how good the pricing is relative to the developer.


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## jytung (Aug 8, 2022)

Given your current week was developer purchase and like us you already paid a lot for the current EOY week, You may want to at least consider a discussion with the developer to see what they are willing to offer.  We just exchanged our 1 week EOY for 2 weeks EOY last month with the developer, since we are very particular on the floor (top floors only) and the weeks we wanted (26,27 only).  They do offer some decent discount to existing owner and you can apply what you paid as a credit towards the new purchase, plus WOH points... Although we probably didn't do a good job negotiating the WOH points as what Kal had suggested.  You may find that the final price might not be that much higher than resale given the limited inventory that's available out there.


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## sjsharkie (Aug 8, 2022)

I concur with others that resales are rare given the newness of the property, and you should consider a discussion but NOT BUY unless you are some urgent timetable.

I suspect though, if you were patient, you would be net ahead if you compared pricing, and bought the EY resale and sold your EOY through a broker.  The economy isn't exactly going gangbusters right now, and I do believe we will see more resales (not necessarily at HKB... in general) on the market when maintenance fees come due.

That being said, compare prices and remember that any deal that is on the table, will likely be there the next time you inquire.

Good luck.


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## Tucsonadventurer (Aug 8, 2022)

The floating weeks for a high 2 bedroom on redweek go for 47,500 to 59,500. There are 3 bedrooms for similar prices. They haven't sold floating weeks for that long though so there aren't as many.


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## ChicagoDave (Sep 21, 2022)

What's the best way to get in contact with a developer to discuss buying directly from them?


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## sponger76 (Sep 21, 2022)

ChicagoDave said:


> What's the best way to get in contact with a developer to discuss buying directly from them?


Go to their website and fill out the interest form?


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## ChicagoDave (Sep 21, 2022)

sponger76 said:


> Go to their website and fill out the interest form?


What website?  Where can I get a list of developer website? Sorry, but just recently started researching timeshares and still learning the ropes.  Thank you!


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## sponger76 (Sep 21, 2022)

ChicagoDave said:


> What website?  Where can I get a list of developer website? Sorry, but just recently started researching timeshares and still learning the ropes.  Thank you!


You do need to know which specific timeshare systems you are interested in.

If you know you want Marriott Vacation Club go to www.marriottvacationclub.com or if you want Vistana (Westin and Sheraton-branded timeshares) go to www.vistana.com, etc. Google is your friend. As for a list of timeshare companies, there are too many for me to list. But for an idea of what the bigger ones are, just look at the list forums here, a lot of them are represented.


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## ScoopKona (Sep 21, 2022)

I'll add to that:

The biggest frustration I have with the newcomers in the Hyatt forum is we have to tease information out of them for weeks/months before they'll tell us what they actually want.

Just once, I'd like to get "I have a family of four. We're tied to school holidays for the next 10 years. And we want to exchange to Europe in the summer so we raise children who aren't uncultured yobs. If Rick Steves owned a timeshare, what would he own and why? That's what we want -- the Rick Steves timeshare program."


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## Sapper (Sep 21, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> That's what we want -- the Rick Steves timeshare program."



My wife would like the Rick Steves timeshare program (I’m happy with Carmel in August). Where can she sign up?


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## ScoopKona (Sep 22, 2022)

Sapper said:


> My wife would like the Rick Steves timeshare program (I’m happy with Carmel in August). Where can she sign up?



I wish I knew. Because the Cinque Terre, Paris in Summer, skip the line at the Louvre, Brussels beer drinking loop doesn't market itself very well. 

Sounds like your wife and my wife would get along famously.


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## ChicagoDave (Sep 22, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> I'll add to that:
> 
> The biggest frustration I have with the newcomers in the Hyatt forum is we have to tease information out of them for weeks/months before they'll tell us what they actually want.
> 
> Just once, I'd like to get "I have a family of four. We're tied to school holidays for the next 10 years. And we want to exchange to Europe in the summer so we raise children who aren't uncultured yobs. If Rick Steves owned a timeshare, what would he own and why? That's what we want -- the Rick Steves timeshare program."



Hey Scoop, I posted my comments below specifically in the Hyatt form thread a couple of days and you even replied to it, so not sure what you mean by new comers not being specific about what they want.  I’m smart enough to realize I don’t know what I don’t know, which is why I was curious when people mentioned developer sales. If you want to be a jerk, that’s your prerogative and I’ll figure it out myself.

We live in the Chicago area and enjoy travelling to different warm weather/beach resorts usually in AZ, FL, CA, Mexico, the Caribbean (Aruba, Grand Cayman) and Hawaii. Travel is a mix of both summer and winter/spring seasons. My wife and I are both self employed with flexibility in when we can travel and we usually travel 2.5 - 3 weeks a year. It’s usually just the two of us, so a studio or 1 bedroom is fine. We seldom stay anywhere longer than 5-7 days and usually stay at Hilton and Marriott resorts. The Hyatt properties are lovely, which is what attracted us to them. My intent is to purchase 1-2 timeshare properties where we can either stay or use them to trade for weeks at other locations via Hyatt or an exchange program.

Based on the forum comments, it sounds like I should look for either a Diamond or Platinum week to purchase for the most flexibility and exchange value.


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## ScoopKona (Sep 22, 2022)

ChicagoDave said:


> Hey Scoop, I posted my comments below specifically in the Hyatt form thread a couple of days and you even replied to it, so not sure what you mean by new comers not being specific about what they want.  I’m smart enough to realize I don’t know what I don’t know, which is why I was curious when people mentioned developer sales. If you want to be a jerk, that’s your prerogative and I’ll figure it out myself.
> 
> We live in the Chicago area and enjoy travelling to different warm weather/beach resorts usually in AZ, FL, CA, Mexico, the Caribbean (Aruba, Grand Cayman) and Hawaii. Travel is a mix of both summer and winter/spring seasons. My wife and I are both self employed with flexibility in when we can travel and we usually travel 2.5 - 3 weeks a year. It’s usually just the two of us, so a studio or 1 bedroom is fine. We seldom stay anywhere longer than 5-7 days and usually stay at Hilton and Marriott resorts. The Hyatt properties are lovely, which is what attracted us to them. My intent is to purchase 1-2 timeshare properties where we can either stay or use them to trade for weeks at other locations via Hyatt or an exchange program.
> 
> Based on the forum comments, it sounds like I should look for either a Diamond or Platinum week to purchase for the most flexibility and exchange value.



I didn't name any names, did I?

But it's a common problem. It usually takes a dozen posts before we get the "big reveal" of what people want to do, how many people they travel with, and what time of year. It's only then do we find out that someone who claims to want to buy a week in Maui, only wants to travel to Maui maybe one out of five times. And there's always the flexibility issue. Everyone has some level of flexibility -- whether rigid or "spur of the moment is great."

All of that matters. I think a large percentage of people who buy Hyatt overbuy. (Except for skiiers, who always need more points than what they have.) I have always maintained that a Hyatt timeshare is a big, complicated toy. Looking at it that way (as opposed to an investment) makes this so much easier. 

And the people who buy Hyatt resale are rarely "stuck." Don't like it? Sell it for basically what you paid for it. Get something else. Yes, Hyatt is the most complicated of the timeshare systems. But people make it far more complicated than it has to be. At the end of the day, there are only two basic types of owners -- people who own what they want (like most of Sunset Harbor.) Their annual effort amounts to picking up the phone once a year and reserving what they own.

And then there are the people who almost never use what they own. Their annual effort every year is converting their unit into points and putting in requests -- then kick back and see what comes up. People get so wrapped up in the idea that they can "win the timeshare game" that they lose sight that it's just a toy.


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## Kal (Sep 24, 2022)

I'm here in Paris right now.  This is my 5th trip and always use Airbnb.  Can't find much on Interval that is a great location.  So I use HRC points for Hyatt stays and make life simple.  I own a floating week in HKB, so that takes care of the other side of the planet.  Life is short and drink fantastic coffee and MORE wine!


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## ScoopKona (Sep 24, 2022)

Kal said:


> I'm here in Paris right now.  This is my 5th trip and always use Airbnb.  Can't find much on Interval that is a great location.  So I use HRC points for Hyatt stays and make life simple.  I own a floating week in HKB, so that takes care of the other side of the planet.  Life is short and drink fantastic coffee and MORE wine!



Try Interval getaways. I've had very good luck with them in Paris -- half the cost of an equivalent AirBnB last time I went (2018.)

I hope you can make it to Domaine de Lintellac, Au Pied de Cochon and Bouillion Chartier. My three favorite inexpensive restaurants on the planet. Warning, Domaine de Lintellac might be closed -- a couple websites say so. But others are showing their current menu. It was the best 18-euro lunch I've had in my life.


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## Kal (Sep 24, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> Try Interval getaways. I've had very good luck with them in Paris -- half the cost of an equivalent AirBnB last time I went (2018.)
> 
> I hope you can make it to Domaine de Lintellac, Au Pied de Cochon and Bouillion Chartier. My three favorite inexpensive restaurants on the planet. Warning, Domaine de Lintellac might be closed -- a couple websites say so. But others are showing their current menu. It was the best 18-euro lunch I've had in my life.


We definitely enjoyed Bouillion Chartier at Grand Boulevards.  It's an amazing restaurant with lines of folks ready to enjoy. We came close to having mussels at Au Pied de Cochon last week. But there are 3-4 restaurants in a row and my wife picked one of the others.  I waited in front of Cochon while my wife was hunting for perfect treasures around the corner.  The patrons looked like they really enjoyed the servings.  Lintellac is closed.  It looked like they had amazing duck, but we are getting our duck fix at a favorite place on Isle de St. Louise in 2 days.


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## ScoopKona (Sep 24, 2022)

Kal said:


> We definitely enjoyed Bouillion Chartier at Grand Boulevards.  It's an amazing restaurant with lines of folks ready to enjoy. We came close to having mussels at Au Pied de Cochon last week. But there are 3-4 restaurants in a row and my wife picked one of the others.  I waited in front of Cochon while my wife was hunting for perfect treasures around the corner.  The patrons looked like they really enjoyed the servings.  Lintellac is closed.  It looked like they had amazing duck, but we are getting our duck fix at a favorite place on Isle de St. Louise in 2 days.



Truly sorry to hear they're closed. They also sold duck rillettes to take home -- which were pretty-much the best I ever had.

Last time we were there, we gave up on going to new restaurants and just kept hitting the ones we know we like -- and ordering different things off the menu. There are advantages to both strategies, though. 

The only down side to living on the other side of the world is I'm pretty much stuck here for awhile. I'm not complaining. It's a lovely place to be "stuck." But I don't see any trips to Europe for at least a few years. We simply have too much to do here.


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## SteveinHNL (Sep 24, 2022)

ScoopKona said:


> I'll add to that:
> 
> The biggest frustration I have with the newcomers in the Hyatt forum is we have to tease information out of them for weeks/months before they'll tell us what they actually want.
> 
> Just once, I'd like to get "I have a family of four. We're tied to school holidays for the next 10 years. And we want to exchange to Europe in the summer so we raise children who aren't uncultured yobs. If Rick Steves owned a timeshare, what would he own and why? That's what we want -- the Rick Steves timeshare program."



I’m one of those newcomers.  I think part of the problem for us is we know we love and want to travel but don’t exactly know how flexible TS can be.  We have had many great and memorable vacays over the years, but most of them started with “Hey babe, check out this special, what do you think about visiting (fill in the blank) next March?”  We don’t exactly know how TS works or how to make it fit to what we want because we don’t exactly know what we want.  So we start asking vague questions, followed by questions based on wrong assumptions, followed by “you mean I can really do this but I can’t do that” questions, and so on. 

It literally took me 3-4 years of trying to figure out how we would make use of timeshares, what we want and where we would want it, before I discovered the Hyatt system, asked a few Qs here, and learned a lot from folks here such as you and Kal who have generously shared info and answered questions here on the board as well as through DMs.  Even now that we have finally gotten our first HRC week and FINALLY gotten our Interval account set up through Hyatt, I am still trying to figure out how to best use our points.  Do I wanna throw my line in the water by making a future request and wait for a fish to bite?  Do I want to whip, cast and reel?  Or do I want to just take my points to the market and buy something that sounds great?

The one thing I do know is I already know my 2200 points aren’t enough.  Yes, they’re plenty and yes I can have a lot of fun through Interval with them.  But I also realize that I now want a dedicated week at High Sierra, and I want to use my 2200 points for free styling.  

Thanks for putting up with us, haha!


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## Sugarcubesea (Sep 24, 2022)

SteveinHNL said:


> I’m one of those newcomers.  I think part of the problem for us is we know we love and want to travel but don’t exactly know how flexible TS can be.  We have had many great and memorable vacays over the years, but most of them started with “Hey babe, check out this special, what do you think about visiting (fill in the blank) next March?”  We don’t exactly know how TS works or how to make it fit to what we want because we don’t exactly know what we want.  So we start asking vague questions, followed by questions based on wrong assumptions, followed by “you mean I can really do this but I can’t do that” questions, and so on.
> 
> It literally took me 3-4 years of trying to figure out how we would make use of timeshares, what we want and where we would want it, before I discovered the Hyatt system, asked a few Qs here, and learned a lot from folks here such as you and Kal who have generously shared info and answered questions here on the board as well as through DMs.  Even now that we have finally gotten our first HRC week and FINALLY gotten our Interval account set up through Hyatt, I am still trying to figure out how to best use our points.  Do I wanna throw my line in the water by making a future request and wait for a fish to bite?  Do I want to whip, cast and reel?  Or do I want to just take my points to the market and buy something that sounds great?
> 
> ...


@SteveinHNL , I purchased my Diamond Hyatt Week 15 for $4K a few years back when Marriott was in the process of buying ILG/ Hyatt.  I feel like I got a deal because I had been wanting a Hyatt for awhile but only willing to spend $4K for my week.  I have gone to Key West (where my ownership is) Bonita Springs the most with my Hyatt.  

Did you purchase points or a week's ownership?   I'm happy to help if I can.


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## ScoopKona (Sep 24, 2022)

SteveinHNL said:


> Thanks for putting up with us, haha!



My only gripe (and it is a small one), is not getting enough information. But that's common on all internet fora. 

I get it that "people don't know what they don't know." But if everyone posted what they want to do, things would go smoother. 

For instance:

_"I'm looking for a vehicle, what should I get?"_

Everyone answers with cars or trucks.

_"This vehicle has to be capable travel inter-continental travel."_

Everyone answers with airplanes.

_"I'm afraid of heights."_

Everyone answers with boats.

_"I don't want to buy any gasoline/diesel, ever."_


WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU ASK ABOUT SAILBOATS IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?!?!?!?!?

There's a difference between "what should I do in Hawaii lol" and "I'm heading to Kauai for the 18th time in March. I have 'done it all.' So I'm looking for new things to try. Either new businesses that have opened in the past two years. Or things that are so far off the beaten track that no guidebook would ever mention them. Also, I'm allergic to macadamia (and all tree) nuts."

The first question is impossible to answer. The second one is very_ difficult_ to answer. But someone who knows Kauai better than I do will take a stab at it.


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## SteveinHNL (Sep 24, 2022)

Sugarcubesea said:


> @SteveinHNL , I purchased my Diamond Hyatt Week 15 for $4K a few years back when Marriott was in the process of buying ILG/ Hyatt.  I feel like I got a deal because I had been wanting a Hyatt for awhile but only willing to spend $4K for my week.  I have gone to Key West (where my ownership is) Bonita Springs the most with my Hyatt.
> 
> Did you purchase points or a week's ownership?   I'm happy to help if I can.


I bought a diamond week at Windward Pointe for $8500 a couple of months ago.  My first foray into TS, save a free Kingsbury Tahoe week given to me by a kind Tugger.  So far I have been furiously searching the site for a High Sierra week anytime from June to September (although I admit my preference is for a 1400 point September week so I have more points to play with).  I just got my Interval account set up yesterday and I have been happily shopping there as well.  Thanks for the offer of help, I will probably take you up on that!!


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## ScoopKona (Sep 24, 2022)

SteveinHNL said:


> I bought a diamond week at Windward Pointe for $8500 a couple of months ago.  My first foray into TS, save a free Kingsbury Tahoe week given to me by a kind Tugger.  So far I have been furiously searching the site for a High Sierra week anytime from June to September (although I admit my preference is for a 1400 point September week so I have more points to play with).  I just got my Interval account set up yesterday and I have been happily shopping there as well.  Thanks for the offer of help, I will probably take you up on that!!



If I'm not able to pull precisely what I want, I'll downshift to a mid-week stay -- the four day stays are ideal. And then I'll try to pad the vacation with a nearby week in Interval, and travel days. So if a Full week in Tahoe isn't happening, grab what you can there. And then hit wine country, San Francisco or the Central coast. 

It's not optimal. But the first year with the new timeshare always seems to be the hardest. The growing pains will end.


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## SteveinHNL (Sep 24, 2022)

We love Tahoe and would like to do that every year, so we are on the hunt for a reasonably priced summer week at the High Sierra.  Looking forward to booking a 4 night midweek in Carmel as well.


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