# Considering HGVC until I read this...



## pharmlivin (Aug 29, 2007)

I was checking out TRIPADVISOR reviews for Hilton International Drive Orlando and one read:

"The resort itself was beautiful. We stayed in a one-bedroom suite for 8 days for just over $1100.00. That works out to only about $137 a night. WHAT A BARGAIN! I got the rate by calling Hilton directly and got a non-refundable rate. We had a big comfortable bed with tons of pillows and new linens, washer and dryer with detergent, fully stocked kitchen (pots, pans, glasses, utensils, everything), a whirlpool tub big enough for 3+ people, two televisions with surround sound, and beautiful view from our fully enclosed balcony. Housekeeping was unbelievable. They even did our dirty dishes! We always had fresh clean towels, a clean bathtub, and a clean kitchen. It was really like a home away from home, but with your own maid..."

Got to wondering what the advantage of purchasing is if you can get deals like this (It was for a stay in July 2007).  Looking for opinions, comments.  Thanks.


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## tomandrobin (Aug 29, 2007)

Orlando is overbuilt. That is why almost everyone here will tell you not to buy in Orlando, unless you must have it.


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## derb (Aug 29, 2007)

If you purchase it right, you will save over the rental you quoted.  Lets say you buy a 5k points unit for 7500.  Your maint fee will be about 600 dollars.  You will be able to sell the unit and get your original investment back, (less the interest you would have received) again if you purchased it right via resale.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 29, 2007)

pharmlivin said:


> I was checking out TRIPADVISOR reviews for Hilton International Drive Orlando and one read:
> 
> "The resort itself was beautiful. We stayed in a one-bedroom suite for 8 days for just over $1100.00. That works out to only about $137 a night. WHAT A BARGAIN! I got the rate by calling Hilton directly and got a non-refundable rate. We had a big comfortable bed with tons of pillows and new linens, washer and dryer with detergent, fully stocked kitchen (pots, pans, glasses, utensils, everything), a whirlpool tub big enough for 3+ people, two televisions with surround sound, and beautiful view from our fully enclosed balcony. Housekeeping was unbelievable. They even did our dirty dishes! We always had fresh clean towels, a clean bathtub, and a clean kitchen. It was really like a home away from home, but with your own maid..."
> 
> Got to wondering what the advantage of purchasing is if you can get deals like this (It was for a stay in July 2007).  Looking for opinions, comments.  Thanks.



As things stand right now your are correct, why own when you can rent much cheaper. 

In the past rentals have been a little harder to come by for popular seasons but now, with everyone jumping on the "let's rent our inventory" bandwagon rather than putting that inventory into the exchange pool there is almost no reason to buy if you're wanting to vacation in the well/over developed areas such as Orlando. Why spend thousands of dollars up front plus hundreds of dollars in maintenance fee's each year if you can rent the exact same accomadations for less?

Reasons for owning would be better unit or location specific units at resorts you own at. Owner preference at locations you own at. Easier to get the exact dates you want at resorts you own at. Being treated like an owner where you own. 

Past that I can't think of much. Some systems have additional benefits like free golf for owners, disounted rental rates for owners, bonus time for owners (either very inexpensive or in some systems free on short notice), free or discounted upgrades based on availability for owners et.....But I'm not certain that any of those benefits are worth shelling out $20,000 + $700/year MF's when you can just rent the same accomadations when you need them for $1,100/week.

IMO, developers may be killing their goose that laid the golden egg as consumers can come up with the objection to buying of "I can rent directly from you or through the internet (exchange company rentals) for MUCH less than what you're asking."


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## UWSurfer (Aug 30, 2007)

July = Hurrican season.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 30, 2007)

UWSurfer said:


> July = Hurrican season.



Yea but it's pretty low huricane season and we're talking about Orlando. July is big time family vacation time and Orlando is either the #1 or #2 vacation destination in the U.S.

Serious Hurricane season for FL. doesn't really start until late August and runs through October. Certainly they can be hit earlier or later but generally speaking your biggest risk is later in the season rather than earlier.


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## GOLFNBEACH (Aug 30, 2007)

OK...someone with a few minutes of free time should do a test.  Call Hilton and see if you can book for next July and see if you can get the same rate.


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## gusto (Aug 30, 2007)

I'm also looking at purchasing, I seem to go on a nice vacation every other year with my Hilton honors points. I accumulate about 175,000 every other year. so I'm not sure if it's worth it to buy. I just called Hilton grand vacation club on international drive for next Aug. 16, 2008 to Aug 23, 2008 and got quoted a price of $159.00 for a 1 bedroom and $269.00 for a 2 bedroom. I would probably go for the 2 bedroom so it would cost me about $ 1883.00 + taxes for 7 nights. which is about double the maintenance fees. If the Hilton Honors points we good toward other purchases ( I know you can use them for different things but of course staying at a Hilton gives you the best value of points)  I might consider using them for other stuff. 

I guess it's something I'll have to decide

Gus


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## CaliDave (Aug 30, 2007)

Orlando HGVC is almost always available in open season (30 days out) .
If I primarily went to Orlando on vacation. I would buy 3500 points for $3500 and use open season and book rates at $120/night for a 2bd.


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## gusto (Aug 30, 2007)

Hello CaliDave,
  I'm sorry I'm very new to these points, can you explain that in more detail, also do I have to book only 30 from when I want to go? that would be to close for comfort for me, I like to book early.

Thanks Gus


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## saturn28 (Aug 30, 2007)

Over Christmas week 2004, I was able to get a one bedroom through the Hilton hotel website at Hilton Vacation Club Seaworld for $79 per night.


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## timeos2 (Aug 30, 2007)

*We love Orlando but a mega resort isn't a good buy*

As much as we love returning to Orlando over and over again if we wanted to stay at one of the chain/mega resorts we would not own there. In fact our Wastegate ownership would never happen now although in 1994 on resale it seemed OK. If it wasn't for RCI Points it would be gone now. 

We like our ownership at Cypress Pointe as it is a unique location and a small (by Orlando standards) resort that isn't easy to get unless you own during Diamond times. Wastegate, OLCC, Hilton, Marriott, Wyndham, etc - all are easy to trade into or rent as there are just too many of them. No need to own one with the relatively high fees in Orlando. Buy resale elsewhere in a mini-system with lower purchase cost and lower annual fees then reserve in Orlando when you want it. Only if you want a specific resort every time should you own in Orlando and then it should be one with limited inventory - never a mega-resort.


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## oneohana (Aug 30, 2007)

gusto said:


> I'm also looking at purchasing, I seem to go on a nice vacation every other year with my Hilton honors points. I accumulate about 175,000 every other year. so I'm not sure if it's worth it to buy. I just called Hilton grand vacation club on international drive for next Aug. 16, 2008 to Aug 23, 2008 and got quoted a price of $159.00 for a 1 bedroom and $269.00 for a 2 bedroom. I would probably go for the 2 bedroom so it would cost me about $ 1883.00 + taxes for 7 nights. which is about double the maintenance fees. If the Hilton Honors points we good toward other purchases ( I know you can use them for different things but of course staying at a Hilton gives you the best value of points)  I might consider using them for other stuff.
> 
> I guess it's something I'll have to decide
> 
> Gus



If you want to go during the summer, I've seen 2bdrm Marriots for around $400 through II Getaways. Kinda hard to beat at that price.


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## gusto (Aug 30, 2007)

> No need to own one with the relatively high fees in Orlando. Buy resale elsewhere in a mini-system with lower purchase cost and lower annual fees then reserve in Orlando when you want it. Only if you want a specific resort every time should you own in Orlando and then it should be one with limited inventory - never a mega-resort.



What do you mean by "mini- system"?  Is it still HGVC?  We liked the Hilton Grand Vacations accomodations, but we would like to use the points to travel to other HGVC resorts and RCI in different locations. We are new at this, and we just want to be well informed before we decide to purchase.


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## dougp26364 (Aug 30, 2007)

gusto said:


> What do you mean by "mini- system"?  Is it still HGVC?  We liked the Hilton Grand Vacations accomodations, but we would like to use the points to travel to other HGVC resorts and RCI in different locations. We are new at this, and we just want to be well informed before we decide to purchase.



Mini-system is where a developer has several of their own resorts or affiliate resorts that have an aggreement for internal exchange rights. You can exchange within the "mini-system" and bypass the external exchange companies completely.


HGVC is a mini-system but I'm not real impressed with it. Hilton only builds it's own resorts in three locations, Hawaii, Vegas and Orlando. The rest are affiliates and most of those are listed as limited availability. The owners at the affiliates must pay a fee to HGVC in order to get their unit into the sysem. Apparently, since HGVC lists a lot of affiliate resorts as having limited availability, owners at those resorts weren't thrilled about internal exchanges into Hilton's big three. 

HGVC is a quality product but, IMO I'd only buy into HGVC if you want your home resort mostly for personal usage. Otherwise there are other systems out that can offer similar quality and more varity than what HGVC currently offers. If Hilton ever decides to branch out and build something somewhere other than Orlando, Vegas and Hawaii it could be one of he best systems to own in. I just don't see that happening anytime soon.


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## dvc_john (Aug 31, 2007)

gusto said:


> Hello CaliDave,
> I'm sorry I'm very new to these points, can you explain that in more detail, also do I have to book only 30 from when I want to go? that would be to close for comfort for me, I like to book early.
> 
> Thanks Gus



Open season is where they will rent unreserved units for a lower cost. This is available at 30 days out or less to HGVC members.

The rates are: studio/1br/2br - $60/$80/$100 for weekdays
                                           $80/$100/$120 weekends
All rates are plus tax. There is a 10% discount for HGVC elites. And the rates could change. They have increased in the past, but it has been awhile.


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## gusto (Sep 1, 2007)

> there are other systems out that can offer similar quality and more varity than what HGVC currently offers. If Hilton ever decides to branch out and build something somewhere other than Orlando, Vegas and Hawaii it could be one of he best systems to own in. .



Thank you for the information.  It has been very helpful.  I just have a few more questions What other mini systems do you feel are worth investigating?  You also mentioned that HGVC is best if you wish to primarily utilize your home resort.  What about exchanges through RCI and other Hilton affiliates?  Do you feel that this is not an effective use of the system?  Thanks for the advice!!


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## Bourne (Sep 1, 2007)

CaliDave said:


> Orlando HGVC is almost always available in open season (30 days out) .
> If I primarily went to Orlando on vacation. I would buy 3500 points for $3500 and use open season and book rates at $120/night for a 2bd.



Spot on. 

Due to work related issues, we had to cancel a planned trip to Rome over the Long weekend. 

Three days out, I was able to get 4 days in Sanibel and 5 in Orlando using open season reservation. Needless to say, I opted for cash option at Sanibel as the minimum is a 2 br.


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## PerryM (Sep 1, 2007)

*Bubble, bubble, toil and trubble....*

Bubbles burst - that's what they do.

We are vacationing in Florida this minute and Zillow.com indicates that there has been about a 15% correction from a high 2 years ago.

Maui had a little correction and 6 months ago set new highs and its up up and away - about 15% higher than highs 2 years ago.

Back in St. Louis our home is now at all time highs.


There is great hope that the "bubble" fizzled out in the real estate market unless you call a 15% correction a burst bubble.

What about timeshares?  They keep getting more expensive each year and I know of not 1 new timeshare decreasing in prices in the 7 years I've been watching them.  New timeshares are being built all the time and every Friday has a new price increase.

Is there a timeshare bubble?  Will it burst?  How much of a correction?

The simple fact is that timeshares are a smoke and mirror market created by marketing and sales folks.  I believe it will burst one day and there will be blood in the streets for a long time.

When might my timeshare bubble burst or fizzle out?  I haven't a clue.

But we all know that prices can't go up every Friday forever.

What might be the sign of a bubble forming?  Oversupply of units that are not used by owners but rented to the general public.  Rented by the owners, rented by the exchange companies with owners not wanting to exchange into another timeshare but airline tickets and car rentals which must be paid for by the exchange company renting them out.


If a bubble is forming then renting might be much more attractive then buying.  Buying a timeshare, even resale, is going to be harder and harder to justify.


Keep a sharp eye on timeshare rentals as a possible barometer of a timeshare glut that could turn into a black hole for the industry.


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## ricoba (Sep 1, 2007)

Perry, don't tell HGVC about the burst bubble in Florida, they have already broken ground on another new resort in Orlando!  :annoyed:


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## timeos2 (Sep 1, 2007)

ricoba said:


> Perry, don't tell HGVC about the burst bubble in Florida, they have already broken ground on another new resort in Orlando!  :annoyed:



Just what they, and Orlando, needed.  Why do they keep doing the same areas over and over (and over) again? Because people buy there. Otherwise they would move on to new pastures.


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## spookykennedy (Sep 1, 2007)

In Sept. 06 (yes, off season) we stayed in a 3BR unit at HGVC Sea World for 7 nights for $650...I see steals of deals like this ALL OF THE TIME in Orlando, except at DVC...I personally wouldn't own in Orlando.  Our friends do own HGVC Int'l Drive but always use it for Hawaii as they can only plan a few weeks out ever and the MF are lower in Orlando than Hawaii.


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## ricoba (Sep 2, 2007)

timeos2 said:


> Just what they, and Orlando, needed.  Why do they keep doing the same areas over and over (and over) again? Because people buy there. Otherwise they would move on to new pastures.



It's been discussed ad nauseum here on the hotel boards.

HGVC, which is a great system has decided to put all their major development baskets in Orlando, Vegas & Hawaii.

Though they did surprise us with a new NYC timeshare, which is going to be a great plus to the system.

And they have developed some good partnerships with Club Intrawest, Grand Pacific and Fiesta Americana.  But these affiliates are not as easy to trade into as is a HGVC developed club.

I would either like them to either out right buy one of the other partners and bring them into HGVC or to simply start building outside the three areas as they are only now starting to do in NYC.


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## ketamine (Sep 2, 2007)

I would buy 3500 points for $3500 and use open season and book rates at $120/night for a 2bd.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Dave-Sorry for being so in the dark, but how do you do the above. Are you saying buy Hilton points (at a dollar a point)? OK. but then you go on to talk about $120/night. What do you do withthe points.
> 
> Please excuse my lack of understanding here. Your help and that of the  TUG BBS is invaluable....thanks


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## UWSurfer (Sep 2, 2007)

ketamine said:


> Dave-Sorry for being so in the dark, but how do you do the above. Are you saying buy Hilton points (at a dollar a point)? OK. but then you go on to talk about $120/night. What do you do withthe points.
> 
> Please excuse my lack of understanding here. Your help and that of the  TUG BBS is invaluable....thanks



What he is saying is to buy a unit worth 3500 points (1 bdrn, gold season) and find someone who will sell their 1 bdrm on the resale market at or around $1 a point.  You may have to look around the various resale borards or consult with one of the brokers mentioned on TUG. 

OPEN SEASON is the name for the HGVC program for members to rent remaining, unused time at various resorts for set rental rates.  A 2 brm unit goes for $120 a night with open season...or you can use your points to pay for it.  Open Season is 30 days out from check out date.


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