# Wyndham Advice - About to pull the trigger



## dpalfox (Sep 25, 2011)

So i have been searching around on the boards a lot over the past few months and i think i have decided that i want to own a Wyndham Timeshare.  I found one in atlantic city - skyline tower with 154,000 Points.  All i would have to pay is closing and tranfer fee which i am fine with.    

I guess my question is what questions should i ask before buying?

The only reason i decided to possible own in Atlantic City is it is close proximity to where i live, i live in NY.  However most of the time i do not think i will be using in that location.  Is that a bad idea?


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## cbm32 (Sep 25, 2011)

If you are not worried about using where you own look at purchase cost and MF.  

Best deal is cheap or free combined with MF of less than $5 per thousand points. 

Not sure why you settled on Wyndham.  I own about a million Wyndham points per year, but I got them before some changes were made that actually make them worth less than they were when I got them.

I love the Wyndham resorts and if I were getting into timeshare today I would still go Wyndham points if I were looking at doing a lot of less than seven day stays.  If I were looking at doing nearly all weakly stays I would probably go fixed weeks.

What weeks where would depend on how often and where I would be traveling.


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## dpalfox (Sep 25, 2011)

The maintenence is as follows:

Total HOA Fee
Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $5.42
Maintenance Fees: (154,000 / 1000) * $3.89 = $599.06 
Reserve Fund: (154,000 / 1000) * $0.66 = $101.64 
Property Tax: (154,000 / 1000) * $0.87 = $133.98 
Total HOA Fee: (154,000 / 1000) * $5.42 = $834.68 

Program Fee
Program Rate for 1,000 Points: $0.51
Program Fee: (154,000 / 1000) * $0.51 = $78.54 

CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Assessment
Annual Fee: $834.68 + $78.54 = $913.22 
* Monthly Fee: $913.22 / 12 = $76.10 

My ultimate goal is to be able to go somewhere once a year for a week or 3 or 4 weekend stays a year.  IF it is for a week it would probably be a peak season the weekends probably more off peak


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## ronparise (Sep 25, 2011)

As cbm32 has already said, the home resort is not that important unless you want to take advantage of the Advance Reservation priority. In the standard reservation window (10 months ahead of check in) points are points.

I bought in the Wyndham system for these reasons 
1) the cost of entry is low 
2) mf can be reasonable
3) the resorts are high quality (Disney and Marriott fans may disagree) 
4) Wyndham is a points system that allows for short stays and multiple choices and there are numerous resorts close to my home, so Wyndham works for weekend getaways, and last minute stuff. 
5)  Wyndham has everything from the Mountains to the Beaches, Casinos, Skiing, etc, plus a decent selection of urban resorts that other systems cant touch
6) Wyndham has the only two timeshares in the Washington DC area, (where my wife and I both have family and where we visit several times a year)
7) Wyndham has a resort in San Francisco, where my daughter and grandkids live, and where I visit regularly 


Your list will be different than mine, but for me Wyndham was the clear first choice


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## dpalfox (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks for all the great advice.  

Another question i have is, Is an RCI membership included in the yearly fees or that would be seperate.  

Have you ever deposited your points in to RCI?  If so how did you find the results?


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## ronparise (Sep 25, 2011)

limprizol said:


> Thanks for all the great advice.
> 
> Another question i have is, Is an RCI membership included in the yearly fees or that would be seperate.
> 
> Have you ever deposited your points in to RCI?  If so how did you find the results?



RCI is included in your fees....Ive not used this. I think the best use of your points is within the Wyndham system itself...I would only use RCI for that special something where Wyndham dosent have any options, and for a place to put my points if I havent uesed them through the year...as you can see on the chart, your 154 points will get you a 1 bedroom anywhere any time of the year and a 2 bedroom in the off season...

be aware that although an RCI membership is included in your fees, the exchange fee is not...add that to your mf and using RCI becomes a pricy vacation






There is another use for RCI...That does make sense to me...Their last call vacations cost under $300 (plus tax) ,,,no points. This is I think the best deal in timesharing. If I had it to do over I think I would buy the smallest Wyndham contract, for the smallest mf I could find, (I saw a 28k contract mf, under $200 a year,  recently ) and then use Last Call exclusively

On the subject of mf....your contract at $6/1000 points, is on the high side.  I have contracts that high also, but Ive offset them with some low stuff


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## dpalfox (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks for the advice i definitely think i am going to get a Wyndham timeshare but i may search a little bit longer for lower mf.


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## cbm32 (Sep 25, 2011)

In my opinion those MF's are way too high.  I would not buy that.  You can get much lower MF's.

As Ron said, Last Call is the way to go if you can plan last minute-ish.

Small to mid size point contract with Wyndham (MF's $5 a thousand or less) for your weekend stuff and then use of Last Call for weeks would be the way to go if you are flexible. 

Ron, I dont mean to hijack this thread, and I know what you are saying about offsetting the high MF contracts, but I am not sure that they dont all have to stand on their own merit.  I am in the same situation you are and, since Wyndhams changes that killed some of the ways that our points could be manipulated, i am thinking I need to dump some of the higher MF contracts.  Then either replace them with lower MF contracts or just go with some fixed weeks that will rent well and use Last Call (which I do a LOT already).


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## dpalfox (Sep 25, 2011)

What are the resorts that have the lowest maintenance fees.  

As of right now this is the lowest i can find.  For ones that are being given away.  Some are even way above $6 per 1000.  Any suggestions?


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## cbm32 (Sep 25, 2011)

Just check ebay.  There are several on there right now with nice low MF's


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## Cheryl20772 (Sep 25, 2011)

There are resources for knowing fees on the Wyndham Owners forum here http://forums.atozed.com/viewforum.php?f=163  Please don't leave TUG, but augment what you learn here with more over there.  I find both invaluable together.

Keep in mind new resorts like Panama City, where I own, have very low fees, but later, when Wyndham stops subsidizing, these may go up.


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## ronparise (Sep 25, 2011)

National Harbor  and  San Francisco are two others that come to mind for low mf. But you wont get these for free.

Also some of the converted fixed week contracts; 2 and 3 bedroom lockoffs  in prime season work out well.


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## Millisara (Sep 25, 2011)

ronparise said:


> National Harbor  and  San Francisco are two others that come to mind for low mf. But you wont get these for free.
> 
> Also some of the converted fixed week contracts; 2 and 3 bedroom lockoffs  in prime season work out well.


Ron, Why do you think a new resort like National Harbor is so low and do you think the MF will increase out of proportion to other Wyndham timeshares over time?


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## ronparise (Sep 25, 2011)

Millisara said:


> Ron, Why do you think a new resort like National Harbor is so low and do you think the MF will increase out of proportion to other Wyndham timeshares over time?



The answer to your second question is no  and the reason is:...Point Inflation

Ill use Canterbury as my example

You will hear lots of folks warning you about fees and the possibility of rising fees at the newer resorts with an active sales force and with lots of unsold inventory. The thought is Wyndham keeps the fees low to assist the sales effort. Just as soon as they sell out watch the fees sky rocket...at least thats the argument...I think its wrong

But the real reason maintenance fee are low at Canterbury is because they are not really low at all ...Here what I mean:

I own a converted fixed week at Fairfield Harbor. the mf, program fees, taxes...the whole mess is $832 per year. (x52 weeks thats $41000 a year) This is a 2 bedroom 2 bath unit appx 1200 sq ft.. it was converted to 105000 points I pay $8/1000 points. High right??

A two bedroom at Canterbury take 400000 points to reserve. At just over $3/1000 points (low) an owner there is paying mf of $1200 (x 52 weeks thats $62000 a year)  Remember this is only a 900 sq ft unit no washer and dryer, and only one bathroom with no tub.

So who pays more for maintenance for their 2 bedroom unit. Me or the Canterbury owner?...Sure, I pay $8/1000 points and the Canterbury gets by with just over $3/1000 but Canterbury collects $62000 a year for their 2 bedrooms and  Fairfield Harbor, just $42000

I would argue that Canterbury fees figured on a per unit basis are already high, and an owner there dosent have to worry about fees climbing any more than any other owner in the Wyndham system. maybe worry less


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## siesta (Sep 25, 2011)

ronparise said:


> The answer to your second question is no  and the reason is:...Point Inflation
> 
> Ill use Canterbury as my example
> 
> ...


How you need to compare is the canterbury owner gets nearly 4 times the points as you for only 50% more in MF. When you look at the points to be used in the system the canterbury MF and points will get you MUCH more.

Also, it is not a myth that when a resort is in sales mode that the developer subsidizes the MF. This happens quite often.


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## Cheryl20772 (Sep 26, 2011)

In the cases of NH and PCB, it's been stated (by sales staff) that the maintenance fees will continue to be subsidised beyond Wyndham's ownership by retail interests.  PCB has been seeking a major restaurant (their bid for Ruth's Chris fell through so far) and NH is supposed to have a lot of retail space on the bottom level (I have not heard what kind).  These are supposed to bring in rents to subsidize MF's.  I'll believe it when I see it happen.  So far I see mostly empty holes, but this is the worst possible time for such things.  It would be wonderful to keep our low MF.  PCB is one of the high point stay cost resorts.  In fact the first time I looked at how much it costs to stay on the upper floors, I was shocked.  We've stayed there twice now and love it, but our room so far has been been below the 6th floor.

PCB was supposed to build another tower.  That seems to have been shelved and Wyndham switched to WAM  instead of new - smart move in this economy.  PCB also owns  acreage between the two garages and beyond the far garage which they plan to build  on - possibly recreational like a water park?  It will be interesting to see how long they continue to subsidize MF with all that potential development on hold.


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## d2r4s (Oct 3, 2011)

*Wyndham*

Is anyone know how to sale or get out of Wyndham where there is still an outtanding loan of approximately 20% of the original price?


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## Rkmji (Oct 3, 2011)

Because it seems impossible to sell, I am counting the days until the note is paid on our Wyndham Timeshare (Las Vegas) so I can attempt to give it away for free or do the walk away and deal with foreclosure.


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## puppymommo (Oct 3, 2011)

d2r4s said:


> Is anyone know how to sale or get out of Wyndham where there is still an outtanding loan of approximately 20% of the original price?



You could call Wyndham (Financial Services) and ask if they would take the deed back in lieu of forclosure.  Usually they say no, but it has happened.


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## hemrab1 (Oct 3, 2011)

Sales staff at Nat'l Harbor told me that MF have decreased twice since opening in 2010.  One reason for lower MF is the resort has no land other than the building footprint, not even a parking lot.  I wonder, however, if the reserves are adequate.  I do not own there.


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## Cheryl20772 (Oct 4, 2011)

hemrab1 said:


> Sales staff at Nat'l Harbor told me that MF have decreased twice since opening in 2010.  One reason for lower MF is the resort has no land other than the building footprint, not even a parking lot.  I wonder, however, if the reserves are adequate.  I do not own there.



They may have decreased as an adjustment after being too high.  Anyway, here's a snippet of the history which can be found here http://forums.atozed.com/viewtopic.php?f=164&t=8117 (I hope this is considered fair use).





The 2011 numbers have not been incorporated to the history spread sheet yet, but they are available as well and went up slightly.  I think the reserve info can be compared on the PDF file for 2011 numbers.  Check it out.  Always remember that sales people will ummm exaggerate things.  Note the resort was open in 2008.  Fees are NOT really going down as was represented to you.


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## rcollinsny (Oct 5, 2011)

*Wyndham Points Usage Update*

Just an FYI - We were at the Wyndham Owner's Meeting in Orlando in May and there were a couple of promised changes that will greatly enhance the Wyndham points system.

First - they are doing away with "canceled" points so if you book a reservation and cancel at least15 days prior to check-in, you will get your "regular" points back with no new restrictions on their usage.

Second - they are doing away with the "weekly" mentality in their reservations system. This is where most resorts require your reservation to start or end on a Friday or Saturday. There will also be less restrictions on the length of the reservation, currently 4 or 5 day reservations are hard to get at most resorts without doing a split reservation. As I recall we will also be able to book more than a 7 day stay in one reservation which is huge.

Keep in mind that these promised changes are part of the reservation system overhaul and re-write and Wyndham made NO promises as to when it would be delivered.

We own more than 6 million Wyndham points and by working the 60 day discount windows, we effectively use over 10 million points per year. Over 5 million of those points were purchased in the resale market.


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