# 330 Day Rule on FF Reservations



## moonlightgraham (Jun 1, 2008)

I'm hoping to travel to Hawaii next May. I was also hoping to get one or more of the airline tix via FF miles. I'm aware the best chance is to book as soon as 330 days to the travel date is reached. We are planning on staying  2 weeks so I worry that by waiting 14 days for the return date to hit the 330 day mark my outbound seats will be gone. Anyone have any tips/tricks on how to best manage this process? The 330 days to the outbound flight is fast approaching!


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## Talent312 (Jun 1, 2008)

No tricks, but if you are determined to do this ASAP, I'd check to see if you can use 1/2 of the points to make a one-way reservation and try that.  But frankly, I seriously doubt that all seats will disappear in two weeks.  What I think is more likely, is that your carrier will disappear by the date of your flight.  A better plan is simply to be more flexible about your dates.


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## LisaRex (Jun 1, 2008)

The current best advice is to book a one way ticket using points, then later adding the return. 

There are some problems with this method, one being that there's no guarantee that there will be award seats on the return trip and the other being that you'd have to pay a change fee, which is becoming increasingly expensive. 

Also, after using the 331 day method successfully to obtain 6 RT seats to/from Hawaii (2 different years), the last time I tried Delta didn't release the seats at 331 days.  I booked Skychoice at 331 days, which was very painful, and then later modified it when they released the SkySaver first class seats around the 8 month mark.  To the best of my knowledge, they never released coach Saver tickets and they are becoming rarer and rarer.


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## Dave M (Jun 1, 2008)

All available seats won't disappear in a few days, but all FF seats might well disappear. Many airlines make only two seats - sometimes no seats - available for free tickets when seats are first available for sale. These days, most airlines don't put more free seats out there for the picking until they can determine whether the flight will sell likely out. Revenue is everything.

Very few airlines will allow a reservation for a one way free ticket at half the cost in FF miles of a round trip. Check with your airline though as to how long they will allow you to hold the outbound reservation before you have to book the return flight. Then call that number of days before your return flight to start your reservation.

You'll likely have a lot more luck if you can fly mid-week when most vacationers - those who use FF miles - won't be flying.


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## moonlightgraham (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks for the tips. I need 3 tickets in total and would like to get one via FF miles. I'm seeing around $800 from ATL to KOA right now for the travel dates I need. Strangely, the cost via Delta is higher into HNL and is higher mid-week....go figure. If I can get one FF seat, the three seats would cost $1,600 and given the state of airfares to Hawaii right now that seems like a pretty reasonable cost.


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## Kingwayne (Jun 2, 2008)

A/A will hold your out going reservation for you if you ask the right agent and keep calling to you get one to help you then when your return date comes available just add to your reservation Call early and often good luck


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## winger (Jun 8, 2008)

UA held my outbound (2009 April flights to Hawaii) for for 14 days (although my outbound did expire 24 hrs after it was made due to the rep miscoding the hold).  The reps I spoke to said i can keep extending the return date until I find a return to complete my reservation. YMMV .


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## Kal (Jun 8, 2008)

Getting choice FF seats these days is extremely difficult especially if you travel on a Saturday.  Each airline has its own rules but there are work arounds.  The first challenge is being able to select the return seats when the airline will not hold the outbound seats long enough until the return seats are posted into the system.

Solution:  In order to preserve the outbound FF seats have the reservation held for as long as possible.  Call back to have the hold date extended, BEFORE IT EXPIRES.  Some airlines will only hold the reservation for 5 days.  If an extension cannot be obtained, book any return date but make sure the routing is what you want.  Then later on you can change the return date at no charge.  Call back to obtain FF seats for the desired return date as those seats become available.  If you change the routing there will be a big change fee.

You need to be flexible as the whole game is now a crap shoot.  The airlines don't want to give away anything if there's any chance they can get revenue in the process.


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## winger (Jun 11, 2008)

Kal said:


> Getting choice FF seats these days is extremely difficult especially if you travel on a Saturday.  Each airline has its own rules but there are work arounds.  The first challenge is being able to select the return seats when the airline will not hold the outbound seats long enough until the return seats are posted into the system.
> 
> Solution:  In order to preserve the outbound FF seats have the reservation held for as long as possible.  Call back to have the hold date extended, BEFORE IT EXPIRES.  Some airlines will only hold the reservation for 5 days.  If an extension cannot be obtained, book any return date but make sure the routing is what you want.  Then later on you can change the return date at no charge.  Call back to obtain FF seats for the desired return date as those seats become available.  If you change the routing there will be a big change fee.
> 
> You need to be flexible as the whole game is now a crap shoot.  The airlines don't want to give away anything if there's any chance they can get revenue in the process.


If you get a witch agent like I did, just hang up and call back.

My favorite witch refused to book my outbound and 'fictitious' return date because as she put it "why would I book something for you knowing very well you are changing it later?  This is unfair for others who really want that return miles seat?"

I responded "Oh, I am so sorry. Shame on me for being so selfish. Have a good night ..." click.


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## aregee (Jun 11, 2008)

*Another possibility?*

When I was once trying to wait logically for the full trip to be within the earliest date, I could not find a seat on the outbound seat while waiting for the return flight.  The agent told me that I should have booked the outbound on the first day and then the return on the next day.  Then wait until the actual return and incur the change fee by rebooking the return.  When I protested that there seemed to be no way to use FF miles without some charge, she sheepishly acknowledged the facts. That was a few years ago when agents were sheepish.  -Richard


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## winger (Jun 11, 2008)

aregee said:


> When I was once trying to wait logically for the full trip to be within the earliest date, I could not find a seat on the outbound seat while waiting for the return flight.  The agent told me that I should have booked the outbound on the first day and then the return on the next day.  Then wait until the actual return and incur the change fee by rebooking the return.  ,,,  -Richard


I was told by UA and AA there is NO fee for changing the return at a later date, I think as long as it is more than 60 days from travel and you are keeping the basic route (to/from airports) the same.


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## Dave M (Jun 12, 2008)

winger said:


> I was told by UA and AA there is NO fee for changing the return at a later date, I think as long as it is more than 60 days from travel and you are keeping the basic route (to/from airports) the same.


On UA, be careful to select the exact itinerary you want if you expect to later make a date change. If you change dates, you'll pay a $150 fee, unless the itinerary and flight numbers are exactly the same as in the original itinerary.


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## bnoble (Jun 12, 2008)

I've stopped worrying too much about getting the saver points rates.  As airfares increase, it's not too hard to find fares that still meet the penny-per-point level that I like to get.

For example, we'll probably use 50K to fly to Seattle in 2009 for an AK cruise.  Fares for direct flights DTW-SEA have been above $500 for most of the 2008 summer so far.  IMO, that's a fine use of points.  Maybe not the very best possible, but I've found that if I hold out for only 25K awards in such circumstances, the only thing that happens is that I continue to accrue points.


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## Zac495 (Jun 12, 2008)

I just played around, since I want to book Hawaii next summer, too. We can leave any day of the week - we'll use points. I could get first class seats THIS July on Usair. That surprised me. Does this point to the hopeful fact that if one is flexible about flying weekdays, it won't be that hard?


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## PigsDad (Jun 12, 2008)

Zac495 said:


> I just played around, since I want to book Hawaii next summer, too. We can leave any day of the week - we'll use points. I could get first class seats THIS July on Usair. That surprised me. Does this point to the hopeful fact that if one is flexible about flying weekdays, it won't be that hard?



The thing is, those first class tickets you see may have only been released recently.  At 330 days out, they may not have been there.  I have been doing some reading and research on FF policies, and the airlines do not release all of the FF seats at 330 days -- they may release a couple then, a couple later, etc.

So that begs the question -- how nervous would you be if you didn't get your FF tickets for next summer's trip until June of next year?

Kurt


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## Zac495 (Jun 12, 2008)

PigsDad said:


> The thing is, those first class tickets you see may have only been released recently.  At 330 days out, they may not have been there.  I have been doing some reading and research on FF policies, and the airlines do not release all of the FF seats at 330 days -- they may release a couple then, a couple later, etc.
> 
> So that begs the question -- how nervous would you be if you didn't get your FF tickets for next summer's trip until June of next year?
> 
> Kurt



I'd be a MESS!


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## judyjht (Jun 12, 2008)

I usually fly Delta because that is the one I have the most FF points.  I just booked 2 first class tickets BOS (Boston)- FFL (Ft Lauderdale) direct flight for 45,000 points each.  Supposedly, if you are willing to pay 45,000 points you can book any seat that is available - FF or not - so that is what I do!  I wait until 331 days from mt RETURN flight and then do it rather than holding them etc.  I know I use a lot of points but I love the First Class and I don't have to stay up until midnight to call.


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## winger (Jun 13, 2008)

Dave M said:


> On UA, be careful to select the exact itinerary you want if you expect to later make a date change. If you change dates, you'll pay a $150 fee, unless the itinerary and flight numbers are exactly the same as in the original itinerary.



thanks, Dave. I will keep this in mind. I got two direct flights from/to SFO/Maui OGG for spring break next year on UA.  My other two are flying AA, which does NOT have direct flights.

Neither AA nor UA said there were charges to changes in flights as long as it's out more than 60 days from travel (or was it 90?) as long as the to/from cities change. I did NOT know I had to keep the same flight #'s as well.


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## Mimi39 (Jun 13, 2008)

I had no problem yesterday getting our frequent flyer award tickets on AA for Hawaii leaving on March 31 and returning on April 7.  I was concerned with all the cut backs that ff tix availability would be more limited but everything went ok.  My husband and I were using our respective ff miles, so I did it by calling AA rather than online so the records would be merged.  That cost us $20.00 each to talk to an agent.  Could I have saved that by reserving on line and then calling to have the records merged?


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## x3 skier (Jun 13, 2008)

Mimi39 said:


> I had no problem yesterday getting our frequent flyer award tickets on AA for Hawaii leaving on March 31 and returning on April 7.  I was concerned with all the cut backs that ff tix availability would be more limited but everything went ok.  My husband and I were using our respective ff miles, so I did it by calling AA rather than online so the records would be merged.  That cost us $20.00 each to talk to an agent.  Could I have saved that by reserving on line and then calling to have the records merged?



I do not know about AA but I just did something similar with DL. I booked two tickets DAY-SFO on line and asked to be put into the line for an upgrade. Since I am Elite Level and my wife is not, it will not allow an upgrade request for just one. I called DL and they split the reservation into two different but linked records and now it shows upgrade requested in my record (which if it happens means wife in front, me in back ). No charge for that change.

My guess is after you booked two different reservations, you could have called and have them link them with no charge but who knows?

Cheers


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## winger (Jun 13, 2008)

Mimi39 said:


> I...That cost us $20.00 each to talk to an agent.  Could I have saved that by reserving on line and then calling to have the records merged?


Hi Mimi, this post is not intended to target you in anyway (I think you are just asking the question, and a good one at that : )  ), I just wanted to make a point about the fees airlines charge for handling FF reservations ...


I know for our UA and AA reservations I could have booked online to save the $20/$25 fee per ticket, but I did not mind talking to a live rep to ensure all goes well.  Also, they airlines need all the money they can get, so I did not mind paying them the approx $90 for our four FF seats to Hawaii.  The way I look at it - the more money the airlines lose (or the less $$$ they make), the more they will cut back, meaning FF seats will decrease, etc... and all or us will lose out in the long term. It's a chain reaction.  $90 is a small price to pay for tickets that would have costed us approx $850 x 4 = $3400.


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## x3 skier (Jun 13, 2008)

winger said:


> I know for our UA and AA reservations I could have booked online to save the $20/$25 fee per ticket, but I did not mind talking to a live rep to ensure all goes well.  Also, they airlines need all the money they can get, so I did not mind paying them the approx $90 for our four FF seats to Hawaii.  The way I look at it - the more money the airlines lose (or the less $$$ they make), the more they will cut back, meaning FF seats will decrease, etc... and all or us will lose out in the long term. It's a chain reaction.  $90 is a small price to pay for tickets that would have costed us approx $850 x 4 = $3400.



I agree! Plus the real live person can check partner airlines a lot easier that you doing it on a web site. On our upcoming European Trip, I could find nothing on Delta to get us to London and back from Venice. The agent found us a Combination of Air France and Northwest in Business class at the low mileage level. Requires a somewhat circuitous routing but Hey, 90000 is a lot better than 250000 miles to ride in the front of the bus.:whoopie: 

Cheers


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## Mimi39 (Jun 13, 2008)

Another good reason to call and talk to an agent when booking ff tix for two separate ff accounts -- last year I tried to book our Hawaii ff award tickets on UA online, I booked mine first and it looked like there were still six spaces available, but when I went back to book my husband availability had completely disappeared!  I called and the agent straightened out the situation, but to get flights we could go on together we had to spend an extra day in Hawaii -- not the worst thing that ever happened!


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## Zac495 (Jun 13, 2008)

x3 skier said:


> I agree! Plus the real live person can check partner airlines a lot easier that you doing it on a web site. On our upcoming European Trip, I could find nothing on Delta to get us to London and back from Venice. The agent found us a Combination of Air France and Northwest in Business class at the low mileage level. Requires a somewhat circuitous routing but Hey, 90000 is a lot better than 250000 miles to ride in the front of the bus.:whoopie:
> 
> Cheers



Absolutely right there! The only way we were able to go first class with ff miles to Spain this summer (2 weeks  we leave) , was having a very nice woman spend about 45 minutes finding a way for me. We're flying through Frankfurt - not the easiest way - but worth it for the first class AND we end up staying overnight there - so we get to see  a short glimpse of Germany.


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## x3 skier (Jun 13, 2008)

Zac495 said:


> We're flying through Frankfurt - not the easiest way - but worth it for the first class AND we end up staying overnight there - so we get to see  a short glimpse of Germany.



A good place to stay is the Frankfurt Airport Sheraton which is directly connected to the Airport. Not the Cheapest, but it is also directly connected to the train station as well. Take a short ride to downtown and walk the main street directly opposite the Hauptbanhhof. Frankfurt is basically a business city but the main street has some nice shops.

Cheers


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## dmharris (Jun 13, 2008)

Dave M said:


> On UA, be careful to select the exact itinerary you want if you expect to later make a date change. If you change dates, you'll pay a $150 fee, unless the itinerary and flight numbers are exactly the same as in the original itinerary.


 
Just to add information, UA changed our FF routing on us and I asked for yet different routing and there was no charge.  This was Pittsburgh-Seattle-Kauai and back to Pittsburgh.  They changed the connecting flight (long story) and I wanted a different one.  It took some calls but got it done.


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## Judy (Jun 13, 2008)

winger said:


> Neither AA nor UA said there were charges to changes in flights as long as it's out more than 60 days from travel (or was it 90?) as long as the to/from cities change. I did NOT know I had to keep the same flight #'s as well.


Here's United's new frequent flier award fee structure beginning May 15, from their webpage at http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,50994,00.html?jumpLink=/awardfees

Ticket issued on or after May 15, 2008

Change


Fee per award ticket

Change in city (change in origin and/or destination)
	$150

Change in connection points (rerouting itinerary using different connecting city)
	$150

Cancellation (recredit of miles)
	$150

Handling fee for redeeming award tickets (waived for travel booked at united.com and the automated systems)
	$25 United Reservations
$30 United ticket counter

Flight change (same itinerary or origin/destination but different flight number)
	$0
($75 for award travel changed 7 - 20 days prior to departure)
($100 for award travel changed 6 days or less prior to departure)

Date change (same itinerary and flights but for a different date)
	$0
($75 for award travel changed 7 - 20 days prior to departure)
($100 for award travel changed 6 days or less prior to departure)


Ticket issued prior to May 15, 2008

Change
	Fee per award ticket

Change in city (change in origin and/or destination)
	$100

Change in connection points (rerouting itinerary using different connecting city)
	$100

Cancellation (recredit of miles)
	$100

Handling fee for redeeming award tickets (waived for travel booked at united.com and the automated systems)
	$15

Flight change (same itinerary or origin/destination but different flight number)
	$ 0
($50 for award travel changed 7 - 13 days prior to departure)
($75 for award travel changed 6 days or less prior to departure)

Date change (same itinerary and flights but for a different date)
	$ 0
($50 for award travel changed 7 - 13 days prior to departure)
($75 for award travel changed 6 days or less prior to departure)

Close-in Processing Fees
Award travel ticketed less than 21 days prior to departure (awards ticketed prior to May 15, 2008: less than 14 days prior to departure) is subject to a non-refundable Close-in Processing Fee, whether purchased through united.com, United ticketing agencies, United airport ticket counters or United Reservations. This fee is charged to the credit card used to support the award ticketing transaction and may take up to 1 week for processing.

Ticket issued on or after May 15, 2008

Fees


Fee per award ticket
Award travel ticketed six days or less prior to departure 	$100
Award travel ticketed 7 - 20 days prior to departure 	$75
Award travel ticketed 21 days or more prior to departure 	$0


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## dmharris (Jun 13, 2008)

*Aw yes*

The friendly skies of United.  Not!


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## Cathyb (Jun 14, 2008)

winger:  Have you been quite successful getting Hawaii with United ffmiles over the years?  Do you usually get economy or high class?  Do you do it online or on the phone?  Thanks!


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## winger (Jun 15, 2008)

Cathyb said:


> winger:  Have you been quite successful getting Hawaii with United ffmiles over the years?  Do you usually get economy or high class?  Do you do it online or on the phone?  Thanks!


I used UA SFO-HNL in Dec 2007 (booked online around May/Jun 2007) and SFO-OGG for Apr 2009 (booked with live overseas rep in Jun 2008).  I book the miles savers tix (we are not big ppl plus my 4 yo daughter does great in an economy seat!)


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