# So Begins Flying Nightmare



## WinniWoman (Mar 18, 2017)

I really was trying to be open minded about our flight to Durango. I spent so much time finding the right flights- best connection times, picked our seats, the fares- well- they were just ok- and now- the 1st email from American Airlines stating our flights/seats have been changed.

The main issue is coming home (yes- it is always an issue coming home to the East coast). The new flight first leaves very early in the morning- ok. I guess we can deal with that.

The problem is there is only 40 minutes between connecting flights at Dallas Fort Worth. Would be landing at B and need to get to either A or C. 

So- I call AA and the representative was fantastic I have to say. She tried everything to make a change. Essentially the only thing they have right now would still leave Durango very early- but there would be a 3 hour layover in Dallas. Yet we would get home earlier, so that is a plus.
Another she had would leave Durango later and go to Phoenix with a 3 hour layover and then we wouldn't get to Newark until almost midnight! Then will still have a 2 hour trip home. NOT!

Then she mentioned Albuquerque- well that is a 4 hour drive- we are supposed to be on vacation! No thanks!

She was able to change a couple of seats, but not all, but they still stink. We had all aisle seats in the middle of the plane- now we are in the back.
On one flight we are cramped in by the window.

I left it the way it was, as there is a good chance it will change again. And- if I get aggravated enough which I already am, I can get a full refund since AA was the ones that changed it. If I change it now I have to live with it unless they change it again.

So- there it is- the reason I hate flying.All the work you put into it and it all doesn't matter anyway. Glad I did not have to pay for my hotel or car rental or car service up front. Just the travel insurance would be lost if I decide to cancel. 

I have never had one trip ever go smooth when it comes to flying. It's always something.The rep. said it is the air traffic controllers who have to constantly switch the flight plans around if there is too much air traffic scheduled. She was really lovely and very helpful and I was impressed with her assistance. At least one thing good..

SMH....


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## Jimster (Mar 18, 2017)

You seem to have the same problem my wife has.  You want the airline to do what YOU want.  The problem is they will do what THEY want so they can make money.  Equipment changes, capacity and other issues will cause the airlines to make changes.  Alll of these is driven by money.
Unless you are willing to spend the big bucks to go first class or be a top level elite and even that is no guarantee, you are at the mercy of the airlines.

The only way to keep your sanity is to stay flexible and do the best you can.  Spending long hours planning things so they are JUST RIGHT will only cause you to be upset.


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## Jan M. (Mar 18, 2017)

Good Luck to you and please wish me the same!

On other threads I've recounted our nightmare experiences with Delta 16 and 17 years ago and stated that I've never flown Delta since. Well my husband is working in Arkansas for two weeks and I wanted to accompany him. He has to use his company's online travel agency which only uses certain airlines. I could have flown a lot cheaper on a different airline into Memphis arriving/departing within an hour or so of his flights. From Memphis it is about 3.5 hours drive to Fairfield Bay where we are staying. Or we could have driven the 3.5 hours to the Orlando airport and flown into Little Rock also a lot cheaper for my flight. After a couple of days of deliberation I decided to quit being a pain the the butt and just book the Delta flight. I can be on the same flight with my husband and we don't have to drive 3.5 hours each way.

I survived the shock and it didn't actually kill me to pay more for the flight than I can remember ever paying for a flight, $355! There was a pop up offer to apply for the Delta American Express, no fee for the first year and get $100 off my flight. So I applied, was approved and used the card to to book the flight. That brought the price down to $255 which still is the most I ever paid for a flight but since I booked the flight with the Delta credit card I get my checked bag free which is an additional savings.

On the plus side my husband got it approved that his company will pay for the RCI sale week of $203/no points for the one week and the exchange fee of $230/6500 RCI points for the other week, for our stay in a two bedroom unit at Wyndham Fairfield Bay. Yes I could have booked it using my Wyndham points but by booking it through RCI he has a receipt he can submit for the two fees to get reimbursed. Since his company is paying for the two weeks in the timeshare it more than covers the cost of my flight.

Since we moved to Florida 6 years ago I typically fly Spirit, Allegiant and Frontier. I haven't paid over about $150 for a round trip flight and often get them for under $100 and that is with my checked bag each way. But as I've stated before sometimes it just isn't worth the headache and complications to save $100-$150. So now I'm just praying that everything goes smoothly with my Delta flight. Please, please, please Delta, you have two big time strikes against you with me so don't make it a third and make me hate you forever!


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## WinniWoman (Mar 18, 2017)

We paid close to $700 round trip each for these tickets. No small chunk of change. But was wiling to pay it to get the right flight in our low life category I guess. We are not in the Elite class of things. We are lucky to even been flying at all - well- maybe not I guess!

My main issue is the connection time in a huge airport like Dallas for infrequent travelers like us who are not too familiar with airports. Haven't flown in years because of crap like this.

Does anyone think 40 minutes is enough time when you have to go to another terminal/gate? I don't and neither did the AA rep. Meanwhile- they are the ones who changed it to this and put an alert on my reservation about it. Well- duh!

There are no meals on any of my flights. (wasn't before either). So we need a little time to eat something as we will be traveling for many hours.

We are departing our Durango hotel at 4:30 in the morning to get to the airport and not arriving to our house until 7:30 pm eastern time! That is a LONG time. And that is if we actually Make the connection in Dallas!

And we are not retired. We are still working and need to get home to get back to work. It;s not like we can handout in Dallas overnight and get another flight the next day.

When a vacation becomes stressful before it even starts, I have to rethink things.
Maybe I should try United? Or- maybe just scrap the whole thing. But if I do I am afraid we will never fly again and there goes my bucket list. It will have to become a drive to only bucket list.


And- PS if I get a new flight I need to keep it within the car rental return perimeters I booked because now if I try to change it to return the car later in the day, it will cost more for the car rental! You simply cannot win!
.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 18, 2017)

Jimster said:


> You seem to have the same problem my wife has.  You want the airline to do what YOU want.  The problem is they will do what THEY want so they can make money.  Equipment changes, capacity and other issues will cause the airlines to make changes.  Alll of these is driven by money.
> Unless you are willing to spend the big bucks to go first class or be a top level elite and even that is no guarantee, you are at the mercy of the airlines.
> 
> The only way to keep your sanity is to stay flexible and do the best you can.  Spending long hours planning things so they are JUST RIGHT will only cause you to be upset.




Isn't the whole point of belonging to TUG and getting advice on travel sites so you can make the best plans for your trip that you can? The devil is always in the details and if you simply leave everything to chance you will risk having an even worse experience.

And- yes- I do expect the airline to do what it said it was going to do AFTER it took my money as a customer. We don't have a lot of flexibility. We have 6 days to be on this vacation and then we need to get back to work. One thing you are right about is I can have no faith in flying. I at first was very excited to go until I went to look to book the airfare. Then I had that sinking feeling about flying and I should have listened to my inner self.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 18, 2017)

Jan M. said:


> Good Luck to you and please wish me the same!
> 
> On other threads I've recounted our nightmare experiences with Delta 16 and 17 years ago and stated that I've never flown Delta since. Well my husband is working in Arkansas for two weeks and I wanted to accompany him. He has to use his company's online travel agency which only uses certain airlines. I could have flown a lot cheaper on a different airline into Memphis arriving/departing within an hour or so of his flights. From Memphis it is about 3.5 hours drive to Fairfield Bay where we are staying. Or we could have driven the 3.5 hours to the Orlando airport and flown into Little Rock also a lot cheaper for my flight. After a couple of days of deliberation I decided to quit being a pain the the butt and just book the Delta flight. I can be on the same flight with my husband and we don't have to drive 3.5 hours each way.
> 
> ...




Wow. Jan! I do wish you luck! This is exactly what I am talking about. I don't think it is worth it if you ask me. I want to go to Italy some day and to the National Parks in Utah but I am thinking it just will never happen unless something changes big time with the airline industry. I don't seem to have the luck that others have with flying. Maybe I am not meant to travel by plane.


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## Jimster (Mar 18, 2017)

If you buy a new car you can specify the options you like and expect that you will get them.  You can even be as picky as you want.  That is not true about travel these days.  Maybe 10 years ago it was true but not now.  I think the problem is two fold.  First, your expectations are no longer realistic.  You can't expect (like my wife does) to leave at 9:30 am as opposed to 8:30 am so i can get a good breakfast or return at 5:00 pm so i can have a full day with the grandkids.  You have to be happy with getting there and getting back.  If it works out perfect then great- if it doesn't you don't get too irritated.   Second, you don't travel enough to understand the new reality.   Hence, here are some suggestions that might help.

Yesterday I went through DFW and changed terminals in a 30 minute turnaround.  We never would have made it except that my wife requested special assistance (wheel chair).  AA got us an electric cart and we zoomed from one terminal to the other.  If anyone in your party could use this (even if you just walk slowly), then i would suggest this.  If this doesn't apply to you, then realize there is sky link which is the name for the people mover train in DFW.  You will need to use this.

As for food, we had time to grab a sandwich and eat it on the plane, but many flights offer food for sale on the plane.  It would be great if the connecting flight offered you a chance to sit down and eat a healthy dinner which would take at least an hour but they are not making the schedule for YOU they are making the schedule for THEM.  If all of this seems harsh, maybe it is but wanting a different reality isn't going to make it happen; so why fret about it.

BTW an airline elite is someone who travels a lot and is loyal to that airline and therefore given special privileges.  At top levels, elites get a slew of benefits.  As for your rental car, your rental doesn't start until you pick it up and you get an hour cushion at the end of your rental.  Also remember you don't have to even cancel a rental car unless you pre-paid.  Go on autoslash.com and let them do the work finding a lower rate.  My guess is they can already get you a lower rate since they book corporate rates anyway.  In any case, they check every day for a lower rate and will rebook you at the lower rate if they find one.

Traveling a distance will take a day unless you are very fortunate.  You need to resign yourself to that.  The airlines expect you to find a way to make it work for your specific needs.

PS.  I have flown out of Durango before.  You really don't need to leave a great deal of time to go through security.  You just need to get there an hour before the flight if you are going to check a bag.  If you are not checking bags, probably 45 minutes in advance is enough.   What you don't need to do is get there 2 hours in advance


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 18, 2017)

Expect the schedule to change.  Keep an eye on it periodically.  React as soon as you notice.  Use changes that are unacceptable to have the airline change your flights at NO charge.  Even changing days if the schedule gets so screwed up, like if you have to make an event (like a cruise departure) and now you are getting there 3 hours too late. 

Don't obsess about perfection too far in advance.  Its a waste of your time.


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## rapmarks (Mar 18, 2017)

We are now flying back and forth between fort Myers airport and Wisconsin.  I couldn't find a direct flight to Milwaukee and my friend told me last direct flight on southwest is April 24 and they are all sold out.  Started looking into flights to Madison.  United gives you forty minute layover, and the plane is in a different terminal.  One flight had us going through Newark.  Right now I don't know what we will do.  


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## SmithOp (Mar 18, 2017)

40 minutes is plenty of time in Dallas, there is a very fast skytrain between terminals, I've done it in 30 min.


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## MuranoJo (Mar 19, 2017)

I was a 'semi-elite' flyer for a number of years with my job, and back in those days, enjoyed the perks.
But these days we've learned to accept that schedules will change often and you need to proactively watch for these.  Plus seating will change--heck, once we upgraded to Economy Plus and they changed us to Economy and no notice.  
It seems in the past few years after every few flights we've taken, DH will say, "I'll never fly again."   But I manage to drag him onboard again after a break.


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## Luanne (Mar 19, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> 40 minutes is plenty of time in Dallas, there is a very fast skytrain between terminals, I've done it in 30 min.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It may be enough time if everything goes well.  I fly through Dallas when I visit my mom and sister.  I've seen a several hour layover be reduced to less than 30 minutes.  Most of the time the problem is that my first flight was delayed but I had one instance where a flight, that was already late arriving in Dallas, was delayed disembarking because they couldn't get the jetway to work.  Several people who were stuck on the plane with me missed their connecting flights as they waited to get off the plane.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

Jimster said:


> If you buy a new car you can specify the options you like and expect that you will get them.  You can even be as picky as you want.  That is not true about travel these days.  Maybe 10 years ago it was true but not now.  I think the problem is two fold.  First, your expectations are no longer realistic.  You can't expect (like my wife does) to leave at 9:30 am as opposed to 8:30 am so i can get a good breakfast or return at 5:00 pm so i can have a full day with the grandkids.  You have to be happy with getting there and getting back.  If it works out perfect then great- if it doesn't you don't get too irritated.   Second, you don't travel enough to understand the new reality.   Hence, here are some suggestions that might help.
> 
> Yesterday I went through DFW and changed terminals in a 30 minute turnaround.  We never would have made it except that my wife requested special assistance (wheel chair).  AA got us an electric cart and we zoomed from one terminal to the other.  If anyone in your party could use this (even if you just walk slowly), then i would suggest this.  If this doesn't apply to you, then realize there is sky link which is the name for the people mover train in DFW.  You will need to use this.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Good to know about Durango. Very helpful. 

Yes, I understand about the Elite travelers benefits and I also understand the airlines only care about making money and could care less about human beings. We flew 6 years ago to Scotland and after that flight experience it totally turned me off to flying which is why it has taken so long for me to try again. But I do expect two days to be travel days, but I do not want it to be torture.

I did use autoslash and I left my reservation the same because even if you only change the drop off time- even if it is much earlier than originally noted, you have to cancel the whole reservation and start over with a new rate. This would have already cost us $50 more so I left it as is.


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## vacationhopeful (Mar 19, 2017)

I live 10 miles from PHL (Philadelphia airport) ... a stupid $5 toll bridge between states. A major hub but not NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, etc in chaos. And every time I read these threads, I truly appreciate my flight options ... domestic or international from Philly.

As for 'fun & games' in gangways issues, strikes, security screenings, bad weather, maintenance problems ... I just know a travel day is totally lost vacation day. And am glad plane flying with all its issues gets me to South Florida way faster than driving south on I-95 for almost 2 days. I-95 is way worst ... construction, accidents, congestion, speed traps ... all causing way more stress.

PS I started travelling regularly to Florida in Spring, 1970 ... I went to college from Fall 1970 til Feb 1974. I flew, rode the trains and drove solo & with friends. Airlines came & went as did some airports (Daytona Beach International, McCoy Air Force Base) with improvements & growth made some totally unrecognizable ... Atlanta had a central cross-road "arched" round concourse between the terminals ... before security existed due to hijacking to Cuba....ended the 25-30 minute window to transfer flights in Atlanta (if you were flying North to South or from the West ... this wagon wheeled hub... each spoke was a terminal with flights going to a different area of the US).


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## rapmarks (Mar 19, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> 40 minutes is plenty of time in Dallas, there is a very fast skytrain between terminals, I've done it in 30 min.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using
> ...


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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

Luanne said:


> It may be enough time if everything goes well.  I fly through Dallas when I visit my mom and sister.  I've seen a several hour layover be reduced to less than 30 minutes.  Most of the time the problem is that my first flight was delayed but I had one instance where a flight, that was already late arriving in Dallas, was delayed disembarking because they couldn't get the jetway to work.  Several people who were stuck on the plane with me missed their connecting flights as they waited to get off the plane.




That's what I am talking about. I have been through this kind of thing while younger. If we have to run through an airport with stress now we will have heart attacks. I am not going to purposely put myself in that situation. It's one thing if something goes wrong while on a trip- unavoidable - and certainly still stressful. But it is another to knowingly put yourself in a bad situation from the onset just because you may be stubborn on where and when you want to go.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

vacationhopeful said:


> I live 10 miles from PHL (Philadelphia airport) ... a stupid $5 toll bridge between states. A major hub but not NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, etc in chaos. And every time I read these threads, I truly appreciate my flight options ... domestic or international from Philly.
> 
> As for 'fun & games' in gangways issues, strikes, security screenings, bad weather, maintenance problems ... I just know a travel day is totally lost vacation day. And am glad plane flying with all its issues gets me to South Florida way faster than driving south on I-95 for almost 2 days. I-95 is way worst ... construction, accidents, congestion, speed traps ... all causing way more stress.




Going to Florida would be a breeze for us because we could leave out of our local airport 45 minutes away. Also has some flights to Myrtle Beach- direct- and Europe now as well.

I am just a big National Parks fan and like to schedule our non timeshare trips near them.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

The plane we are disembarking in Dallas is a small plane, but they just put us in the very back of the plane!


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## MOXJO7282 (Mar 19, 2017)

I understand when airlines have to make adjusts to be a strong profitable company but do they have to be so greedy as to continue to strip value from the consumer and jack up prices to make obscene profits so they can pay their over-priced executives?  They eliminate routes, use smaller planes and add all these BS charges while giving you less service.

They've also stripped a lot of value from the FF program as well over the years just to squeeze the consumer and extract max profits.  We used to be able to get 1st class saver seats easily on the nice planes with multiple flight options. Did this easy 4 times NY to Maui then it starts with only being able to get 2 tickets for the nice flights, then only 1, then none forcing us to take lesser planes and worst routes. 

Then it became impossible to be 4 saver seats on any flight. so instead of getting 4 1st savers class for free, now if I'm lucky to get 4 coach anytime seats for max points and if I ever want to get a really nice plane for 1st class, I can for 380k miles that used to cost 140k miles, an absurd increase in less than 10 years of time.  I understand some value loss but that is ridiculous and just a money grab as far as I'm concerned.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

We are seriously thinking of cancelling the whole trip and maybe booking to go to Portsmouth NH that week. 4.5 hour ride. Can also stay in a Hilton Homewood Suite Hotel like we would have in Durango. It will be somewhat chilly on the Atlantic and it does rain a lot there. It's not the Rocky Mountains. But it will certainly be less stressful logistically. Would be a big disappointment because I know we won't ever try to go there again the way flying is. But it also will be a huge cement block off my chest. Hope to make this decision today.


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## SmithOp (Mar 19, 2017)

Luanne said:


> It may be enough time if everything goes well.  I fly through Dallas when I visit my mom and sister.  I've seen a several hour layover be reduced to less than 30 minutes.  Most of the time the problem is that my first flight was delayed but I had one instance where a flight, that was already late arriving in Dallas, was delayed disembarking because they couldn't get the jetway to work.  Several people who were stuck on the plane with me missed their connecting flights as they waited to get off the plane.



I've flown through Dallas over a hundred times, only been stranded twice due to weather.  I don't worry about things that may happen 2% of the time, nor let it stop me enjoying a trip I've been wanting to do.  One of the times there were tornadoes, the airport was shut down and we slept on cots they rolled out in terminal B.


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## Ken555 (Mar 19, 2017)

It certainly seems like you're already quite stressed about this trip, and that even a minor change on the day of travel might make this worse. It's probably wise to consider alternatives. 

If this was my trip, I'd probably look at all options. If you have an extra day or two to add to the trip, I'd consider driving to a larger city with a more direct route home. Driving often adds a nice addition to a trip, especially where you'll be. It's about a six hour drive to Denver from Durango and there are nonstop flights from there to NYC. Spend a night en route and it would be a relaxing end to what is now a very stressful trip.


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## Jimster (Mar 19, 2017)

As to autoslash, I don't think you understand what i said.   Don't cancel or modify the reservation!  Make a new reservation and only cancel the one you dont want AFTER you are assured you have it right.  You may end up keeping the one you have or you might find the new one better. THEN cancel one.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 19, 2017)

SmithOp said:


> 40 minutes is plenty of time in Dallas, there is a very fast skytrain between terminals, I've done it in 30 min.


Doesn't that actually prove that 40 minutes is NOT enough time?  It does to me.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

Ken555 said:


> It certainly seems like you're already quite stressed about this trip, and that even a minor change on the day of travel might make this worse. It's probably wise to consider alternatives.
> 
> If this was my trip, I'd probably look at all options. If you have an extra day or two to add to the trip, I'd consider driving to a larger city with a more direct route home. Driving often adds a nice addition to a trip, especially where you'll be. It's about a six hour drive to Denver from Durango and there are nonstop flights from there to NYC. Spend a night en route and it would be a relaxing end to what is now a very stressful trip.
> 
> ...




Actually I have not found a non stop flight to Denver from NYC and back. I was thinking- ok- let's try Denver and go to Rocky Mountain National Park instead- but no, of course not.

We do not have any extra PTO days to spare to tack onto this trip either.


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## Ken555 (Mar 19, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Actually I have not found a non stop flight to Denver from NYC and back. I was thinking- ok- let's try Denver and go to Rocky Mountain National Park instead- but no, of course not.



There are numerous nonstops between these cities. Since AA changed your flight times you can simply request a refund and buy a ticket on a different airline that offers better routes and times.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

Ken555 said:


> There are numerous nonstops between these cities. Since AA changed your flight times you can simply request a refund and buy a ticket on a different airline that offers better routes and times.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Thanks. I will have to check again. But I tried United and Southwest and American. Will check again.  I did also find a better return flight back home on American. The layover is  very long (3 hours), but better than scrambling. We do have a 3 hour layover in Phoenix upon going to Durango, but I figured that was alright since the flight there will just be an hour. But coming home having a 3 hour layover after the initial one+ hour flight and then still like a 4-5 hour flight- ugh.  Not to say that they couldn't change it again, which makes me wonder about putting so much energy into booking a flight anywhere. I have a massive headache. I think I would like to go back to the days of travel agents.


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## lynne (Mar 19, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Thanks. I will have to check again. But I tried United and Southwest and American. Will check again.  I did also find a better return flight back home on American. The layover is  very long (3 hours), but better than scrambling. We do have a 3 hour layover in Phoenix upon going to Durango, but I figured that was alright since the flight there will just be an hour. But coming home having a 3 hour layover after the initial one+ hour flight and then still like a 4-5 hour flight- ugh.  Not to say that they couldn't change it again, which makes me wonder about putting so much energy into booking a flight anywhere. I have a massive headache. I think I would like to go back to the days of travel agents.



Both Delta and Southwest does have non-stop flights from Denver to NY airports.   Not to increase your stress level, but Durango airport is quite small and airlines tend to overbook their flights.  The key to flying out of Durango is to check-in at the 24 hour mark so you have both your assigned seats and the boarding pass.   Another option to fly from Durango is to check flying Durango to Phoenix and then on to NY.  The schedules may be more to your liking.


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## Ken555 (Mar 19, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Thanks. I will have to check again. But I tried United and Southwest and American. Will check again.



Not knowing your flight date, I just randomly chose a day and found 20 nonstop flights from Denver to New York, of which 13 were operated by United (and the app I used doesn't show Southwest, so there may be more). Denver is one of their hubs, so that's what I would expect. Of course, there are many other options.

If you don't mind sharing, post the dates you're intending to travel and I'm sure a few of us will look for options for you.



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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

lynne said:


> Both Delta and Southwest does have non-stop flights from Denver to NY airports.   Not to increase your stress level, but Durango airport is quite small and airlines tend to overbook their flights.  The key to flying out of Durango is to check-in at the 24 hour mark so you have both your assigned seats and the boarding pass.   Another option to fly from Durango is to check flying Durango to Phoenix and then on to NY.  The schedules may be more to your liking.



Actually our flight going is to Phoenix first- with a 3 hour layover before going to Durango.But going back they gave us Dallas out of Durango going back home.

How do you check in 24 hours ahead? On-line?


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## lynne (Mar 19, 2017)

How do you check in 24 hours ahead? On-line?[/QUOTE]


mpumilia said:


> Actually our flight going is to Phoenix first- with a 3 hour layover before going to Durango.But going back they gave us Dallas out of Durango going back home.
> 
> How do you check in 24 hours ahead? On-line?




Load the AA app on your phone and check-in online.  Durango does not have too many options for AA, either connect through PHX or DFW.  Another option if you are able to make the change with AA is to find a flight from ABQ, have a leisurely day driving from Durango to Albuquerque and stay overnight near the airport.  Whenever we travel with an early morning departure, we do try to spend the last night near the airport, bring the rental car back the night before and use the hotel shuttle.  It does remove quite a bit of stress from our travels.  Also, you should be able to get reasonable rates to rent in Durango and returning to Albuquerque.  

We have spent time in the Phoenix airport with long layovers without any issues.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 19, 2017)

WELL!! Here is what I did after spending the good part of this weekend agonizing over it. I first cancelled my AA reservations completely. Boy- I had to go on line after calling and being on hold for 20 minutes and put in a REQUEST for a refund! They do not take the refund requests over the phone, just the cancellation! AND- it will take up to 10 days to get the refund once approved! Another thing making me nervous! Then I cancelled my car rental and hotel reservations.

I then decided to book a nonstop flight to Denver through United Airlines. Booked at the Quality Inn Hotel in Estes Park and went on Auto Slash for the car rental- which was disappointingly almost $100 higher than the one in Durango. I didn;t have to pay for either of these now and can cancel anytime pretty much. I then, via email, contacted our car service we are using to and from Newark airport about the changes, who by now probably thinks I am a nutcase.

It was either this or we were doing a road trip to Portsmouth. New Hampshire. I decided that if we didn't at least go to Colorado now we probably never would considering how I feel about flying and yet another bad experience with airlines and the way things are these days. I really wanted to see Mesa Verde, but maybe one day we can get that in with a Utah National parks vacation, being it's location is so southwest in Colorado. I was really never crazy about going to Rocky Mountain National Park for some reason but I am sure we will enjoy it. Hope the weather is good. Our dates are 6/17/ to 6/24.

Thank you everyone for all your help. I am still a bit full of anxiety, but I feel much better not having to worry about connecting flights. I am now hoping for the best with my new flights/itinerary.


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## bogey21 (Mar 19, 2017)

Back in my working days I was a 3 million miler with Delta and a 2 million miler with American and flew gobs on Southwest.  For a couple of years after retiring I continued to fly then gave it up as it was becoming too much of a hassle.  With time on my hands I just started driving for my trips.  After I had a couple of mini-strokes (TIA Events) about 7 years ago I just quit traveling.  Such is life.

George


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## Jimster (Mar 19, 2017)

Well your rental car was a $100 higher NOW.  With any luck at all autoslash will find a lower rate before it is actually time to fly- you do have some time so it is quite possible.


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## MuranoJo (Mar 20, 2017)

Sounds like quite a relief--hang in there! You'll end up enjoying your trip--it's beautiful country.

And I totally get where you're coming from with travel these days.
I avoid close connections completely now.  Our last tight connection made us miss our flight and, needless to say, we were both tired and irritable.  Not a good way to end a vacation.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 20, 2017)

And this morning I ended up making one more change with our flights since I was way within in the 24 hour window for making changes. Since I was so wired and didn't sleep all night, I thought about the newest MONEY magazine article that listed Estes Park as a good value this year. I knew my flights cost more than mentioned in the article, so I checked the rates flying out of LaGuardia instead of Newark and the total was $500 cheaper for the exact same departure and arrival times! We don't really like LaGuardia and I think there is a lot of construction going on at the airport right now, but $500 will pay for our car service round trip - we aren't driving! So- my car service got yet another email from me again! Lol!


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## WinniWoman (Mar 20, 2017)

MuranoJo said:


> Sounds like quite a relief--hang in there! You'll end up enjoying your trip--it's beautiful country.
> 
> And I totally get where you're coming from with travel these days.
> I avoid close connections completely now.  Our last tight connection made us miss our flight and, needless to say, we were both tired and irritable.  Not a good way to end a vacation.



I find it is always worse coming back East. Anyway, if we ever fly again after this it will have to be a direct flight or forget it.


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## Passepartout (Mar 20, 2017)

Mary Ann, you are fortunate, being within reasonable travel distance of multiple large airports, and with car services that can fairly easily get you to/from any of them. Competition between all these services will reduce costs- at the price of sorting through all the choices yourself and making the decision of which is best for you. And, of course the self-induced penalty of making the wrong one.

For those of us out in the relative boondocks of 'flyover land' where airports are hundreds of miles apart, we aren't burdened with choices. Travel costs what it costs. Pay up or stay home.

Jim


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## GrayFal (Mar 20, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> And this morning I ended up making one more change with our flights since I was way within in the 24 hour window for making changes. Since I was so wired and didn't sleep all night, I thought about the newest MONEY magazine article that listed Estes Park as a good value this year. I knew my flights cost more than mentioned in the article, so I checked the rates flying out of LaGuardia instead of Newark and the total was $500 cheaper for the exact same departure and arrival times! We don't really like LaGuardia and I think there is a lot of construction going on at the airport right now, but $500 will pay for our car service round trip - we aren't driving! So- my car service got yet another email from me again! Lol!


LGA is very very bad right now with ongoing construction.  It is extremely difficult to get to the terminal buildings to be dropped off.  Normally you would allow 2-2.5 hours before flight to arrive at the airport; best to plan 3-3.5 hours at this time.  
http://laguardiaairport.com/traveladvisories/


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## rapmarks (Mar 20, 2017)

I am glad you didn't cancel your trip. Colorado is so beautiful. A long time ago we drove from Chicago to Phoenix and spent about a week driving through Colorado.  Rocky Mountain national park, Leadville, ouray to silverton, Durango , mesa verde, black canyon of the gunnison, were some of the places we visited.


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## x3 skier (Mar 20, 2017)

I learned a long, long time ago to accept the things I can't do anything about and change things I don't like and can fix.  Airplane travel is "in between" for me. If I really want to go someplace by air, I take what I can get. If that's too much of a hassle or cost too much, I don't go. I can't change the Airlines so I don't worry about trying.

If they change my plan to something I can't accept (a very very rare happening), I get my money back and do something else. Life is too short.

Cheers


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## WinniWoman (Mar 20, 2017)

GrayFal said:


> LGA is very very bad right now with ongoing construction.  It is extremely difficult to get to the terminal buildings to be dropped off.  Normally you would allow 2-2.5 hours before flight to arrive at the airport; best to plan 3-3.5 hours at this time.
> http://laguardiaairport.com/traveladvisories/




Are you trying to stress me out even more than I have been?


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## x3 skier (Mar 20, 2017)

GrayFal said:


> LGA is very very bad right now with ongoing construction.  It is extremely difficult to get to the terminal buildings to be dropped off.  Normally you would allow 2-2.5 hours before flight to arrive at the airport; best to plan 3-3.5 hours at this time.
> http://laguardiaairport.com/traveladvisories/



I suspect that flights out of LGA will be cheaper all during construction. The airlines need to fill the planes so the prices will drop compared to EWR or JFK to compensate for the disruption. If I was flying from there, an hour of my time for a $100 saving would be worth it. $50, nope. YMMV

I use the same approach to flying out of the two airports within 30 minutes and an hour respectively to my house.

Cheers


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## GrayFal (Mar 20, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> Are you trying to stress me out even more than I have been?



I don't think anyone could increase your stress level.

I wanted to give you fair warning so you can plan according.  You were so happy to save the money but you need to know what the trade off is.  If you are using a professional car service (rather then a friendly neighbor who runs an airport shuttle service) they will advise you that you need to allow more time then usual because of the construction. 

I travel extensively and the older I get, the more "trying" air travel becomes.  I look forward to my husbands retirement in 15 months when we can fly on non-peak days and avoid much of the angst associated with air travel.


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## Ken555 (Mar 20, 2017)

Whenever I search for New York airports, I use "NYC" which automatically searches JFK, EWR, and LGA. 

As for car services, since last year I've been using Lyft to get to/from LAX, and if they are allowed at your departing airport I'd use that instead of a car service. More casual, but also significantly less expensive.


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## GrayFal (Mar 20, 2017)

Ken555 said:


> Whenever I search for New York airports, I use "NYC" which automatically searches JFK, EWR, and LGA.
> 
> As for car services, since last year I've been using Lyft to get to/from LAX, and if they are allowed at your departing airport I'd use that instead of a car service. More casual, but also significantly less expensive.
> 
> ...


OP lives 2+ hours from NYC. Uber/Lyft not a viable option.


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## Ken555 (Mar 20, 2017)

GrayFal said:


> OP lives 2+ hours from NYC. Uber/Lyft not a viable option.



Train?


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## SandyPGravel (Mar 20, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> Expect the schedule to change.  Keep an eye on it periodically.  React as soon as you notice.  *Use changes that are unacceptable to have the airline change your flights at NO charge. * Even changing days if the schedule gets so screwed up, like if you have to make an event (like a cruise departure) and now you are getting there 3 hours too late.
> 
> Don't obsess about perfection too far in advance.  Its a waste of your time.



*Thanx for posting this*.  I didn't know I could request a change after THEY radically changed my flight.  I like the OP, booked my flights (even spending more than I had to) to get better flight times.  Then the flight got cancelled and I was arriving as late as the cheaper flights that I could have booked originally.  I called my CC travel line and they checked to see if I qualified to request a change for no charge.  I did.  I am a little concerned about the turnaround time between flights 50 minutes in Philadelphia, but I figure worst case scenario I end up arriving when THEY originally rescheduled me.  Plus now we are on the same flights as our guests who are staying in our TS with us.  Makes arriving at the airport easier.


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## SmithOp (Mar 20, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> Doesn't that actually prove that 40 minutes is NOT enough time?  It does to me.



I have made 30 minute connection times with ease.  I'm a fast walker and I check bags, only take an underseat backpack in the cabin.  

My biggest complaint with airline travel delays are fellow travelers, not the airlines or airports.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFW_Skylink

The longest trip between farthest stations is 9 minutes with an average 5 minute journey. This allows most passengers to make a connection from any one flight to another in around seven minutes, not including walking time to and from the stations.[8]


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## WinniWoman (Mar 20, 2017)

GrayFal said:


> I don't think anyone could increase your stress level.
> 
> I wanted to give you fair warning so you can plan according.  You were so happy to save the money but you need to know what the trade off is.  If you are using a professional car service (rather then a friendly neighbor who runs an airport shuttle service) they will advise you that you need to allow more time then usual because of the construction.
> 
> I travel extensively and the older I get, the more "trying" air travel becomes.  I look forward to my husbands retirement in 15 months when we can fly on non-peak days and avoid much of the angst associated with air travel.




Actually, LaGuardia is usually less expensive than Newark, but we don't like it so in the past we used Newark mostly. My car service said they haven't had any issues, but they do have to pick up at curbside because they can't park. They don't think we need to leave earlier than usual.

But I did set up an email alert from LaGuardia for anything that might arise.

Thanks for your help.


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## Sandy VDH (Mar 20, 2017)

Also if there is a schedule change CHECK the flights.  The computer will reschedule you if there are cancellations or changes.  But it is not always as smart as it should be.  

I have had the computer automatically book me an outbound connecting flight that LEFT BEFORE my inbound flight arrived.  

I have had computer push my connecting time to the next day because of loads, allowable connecting times, and flight schedule changes.  If the NEW schedule does NOT work, call. ASAP to fix it at NO charge.  I have discussed having them refund my ticket because that wasn't going to work, but that conversation often seems to assist them in finding a solution.  

This works great for reward tickets too.  I have booked the cheap miles awards as soon as they become available, I pick an acceptable routing that has cheap miles, even if it is not optimal.  There is a really go chance the schedule will change.  Hopefully you can use that schedule change to your advantage. 

I cannot stress this enough, it is strongly advised that you have the current schedule available that you want already figured out so that you don't have to take what they offer.  You can suggest that they move you to what you want.


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## WinniWoman (Mar 20, 2017)

T


Ken555 said:


> Whenever I search for New York airports, I use "NYC" which automatically searches JFK, EWR, and LGA.
> 
> As for car services, since last year I've been using Lyft to get to/from LAX, and if they are allowed at your departing airport I'd use that instead of a car service. More casual, but also significantly less expensive.
> 
> ...




This is where my inexperience with flying in recent years really shows! Lol!


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## WinniWoman (Mar 21, 2017)

One other thing I just did is I changed my reservation at the Quality Inn in Estes Park (which has very good reviews, btw) to Rams Horn Resort. Cost me a fortune- way, way more than I intended to spend- but I couldn't bear the thought of spending 7 nights in just a room (it was really bothering me- I am so spoiled with staying in timeshares! LOL!) and I like staying at resorts as opposed to individual homes (like on Home Away). I tried Redweek and also a Worldmark owner I rented from before in West Yellowstone, but the Redweek Worldmark owner didn't have my dates and the other Worldmark owner said there were only a few random dates available.

So- I took the plunge! I must say, I have never, ever had such a crazy time with planning a vacation! Nor have I ever put this much time into it! OMG! I am exhausted! LOL!


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## WinniWoman (Mar 31, 2017)

Jimster said:


> Well your rental car was a $100 higher NOW.  With any luck at all autoslash will find a lower rate before it is actually time to fly- you do have some time so it is quite possible.



Well- you were right. Auto Slash has cut the price twice so far and I am down $124 from the original booked price1


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## WalnutBaron (Mar 31, 2017)

Sandy VDH said:


> Expect the schedule to change.  Keep an eye on it periodically.  React as soon as you notice.  Use changes that are unacceptable to have the airline change your flights at NO charge.  Even changing days if the schedule gets so screwed up, like if you have to make an event (like a cruise departure) and now you are getting there 3 hours too late.
> 
> Don't obsess about perfection too far in advance.  Its a waste of your time.



Sandy has given you excellent advice on this one. Flight and seating changes seem to happen with such regularity these days that it's entirely possible that your flight plan will change again--and it sounds like it's unlikely to get worse and could improve. Unfortunately, the change is affecting your return flight--and if you are already this stressed about the changes and they are still in place on the day of your vacation--it seems to me like it could become a dark cloud hanging over your entire vacation experience as you dread what's coming and how to deal with it on the day of your return home. Remember that you can cancel the flight and have one year to use the $$ spent on the original flight to apply to a new itinerary. And since the airline changed the schedule, you would have a case to ask for the change fee to be waived when you re-book your vacation at another time. If I were in your shoes, I'd just roll with it--but we're all different and it sounds like you're already overwrought--and that could steal the whole enjoyment from your vacation.


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## WinniWoman (Apr 2, 2017)

WalnutBaron said:


> Sandy has given you excellent advice on this one. Flight and seating changes seem to happen with such regularity these days that it's entirely possible that your flight plan will change again--and it sounds like it's unlikely to get worse and could improve. Unfortunately, the change is affecting your return flight--and if you are already this stressed about the changes and they are still in place on the day of your vacation--it seems to me like it could become a dark cloud hanging over your entire vacation experience as you dread what's coming and how to deal with it on the day of your return home. Remember that you can cancel the flight and have one year to use the $$ spent on the original flight to apply to a new itinerary. And since the airline changed the schedule, you would have a case to ask for the change fee to be waived when you re-book your vacation at another time. If I were in your shoes, I'd just roll with it--but we're all different and it sounds like you're already overwrought--and that could steal the whole enjoyment from your vacation.



Actually- no I am good now. I changed the whole vacation and we have nonstop flights now which makes it a lot more tolerable. I made a rule now- no more connecting flights. If connecting flights are involved in getting to a destination- we just won't do it. I do realize my new flights could also change but at least they are nonstop to Denver and there are a lot of flights to and from Denver.


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## PStreet1 (Apr 2, 2017)

It's only about a 6 hour drive from Denver to Durango; you could still go.  And you could see The Great Sand Dunes on the way.


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## WinniWoman (Apr 2, 2017)

PStreet1 said:


> It's only about a 6 hour drive from Denver to Durango; you could still go.  And you could see The Great Sand Dunes on the way.



Yes- thanks I am aware, but we are staying the whole week in Estes Park- it's really only 6 days when you consider 2 are travel days. We will be doing enough driving as it is. 

We hope to maybe another time take a group tour out of Salt Lake City of all the Utah National Parks and Mesa Verde.


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## MuranoJo (Apr 3, 2017)

mpumilia said:


> ... I made a rule now- no more connecting flights. If connecting flights are involved in getting to a destination- we just won't do it.



We're kinda adopting this attitude as well lately.  Travel is more difficult these days, and I'd rather pay XX more to simplify as much as possible--and I try my best to upgrade as well.  We're not getting younger and you can't take it with you--why not enjoy it?
We're so used to being frugal in the past that it's not been easy to live it up a little.  DH said the other day, "Why wait until we're 80?"


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## x3 skier (Apr 3, 2017)

MuranoJo said:


> We're so used to being frugal in the past that it's not been easy to live it up a little.  DH said the other day, "Why wait until we're 80?"



I didn't 

This year besides the annual ski season in Steamboat, London, Germany, Cancun and Seabrook Island SC are on the schedule. 

Sort of typical since turning 60

Cheers


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## lizap (Apr 3, 2017)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I understand when airlines have to make adjusts to be a strong profitable company but do they have to be so greedy as to continue to strip value from the consumer and jack up prices to make obscene profits so they can pay their over-priced executives?  They eliminate routes, use smaller planes and add all these BS charges while giving you less service.
> 
> They've also stripped a lot of value from the FF program as well over the years just to squeeze the consumer and extract max profits.  We used to be able to get 1st class saver seats easily on the nice planes with multiple flight options. Did this easy 4 times NY to Maui then it starts with only being able to get 2 tickets for the nice flights, then only 1, then none forcing us to take lesser planes and worst routes.
> 
> Then it became impossible to be 4 saver seats on any flight. so instead of getting 4 1st savers class for free, now if I'm lucky to get 4 coach anytime seats for max points and if I ever want to get a really nice plane for 1st class, I can for 380k miles that used to cost 140k miles, an absurd increase in less than 10 years of time.  I understand some value loss but that is ridiculous and just a money grab as far as I'm concerned.




Agree completely. Have many FF miles on AA and have been a member since almost the beginning of their FF program.   Availability has gotten progressively worse over the years. We switched over to WN several years ago and love the ease of travel. Will only fly AA for overseas travel where we fly F or J.


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## x3 skier (Apr 4, 2017)

lizap said:


> Agree completely. Have many FF miles on AA and have been a member since almost the beginning of their FF program.   Availability has gotten progressively worse over the years. We switched over to WN several years ago and love the ease of travel. Will only fly AA for overseas travel where we fly F or J.



It has gotten more difficult but I just booked a Biz Class FF ticket for Oct to London on AA. Still have about 400k left. My AA FF number is actually from TWA

Cheers


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