# Westin St. John [Master Thread]



## DavidnRobin

*This thread was too long, and some people couldn't access it, so a new thread has been started here:  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213071

This thread is now "read only." - DeniseM*

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Anyway... I am using the suggestion of a Tugger and contacting RedWeek WSJ renters (owners). 
Original thread -
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62138

I wrote the following:
*"Hi - I am not looking to rent.  I am already an Owner at Westin St John (WSJ) – Week 24, 2Bd in Building 34.  Sorry to contact you this way, but I am trying to get hold of other WSJ Owners to hopefully attempt to band together to influence the Management and the HOA at WSJ.  Sadly, there have been many reported maintenance and repair issues at WSJ and they seem to more and more as time goes by.  The management and HOA have shown little response to those who have recently complained about a variety of ongoing issues.  I will not go into detail now, but I encourage you to come to a Starwood Forum on the Timeshare Users Group (TUG).  This forum can be found at http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51 – or if clicking on unknown links makes you nervous – just Google “Timeshare TUG Starwood BBS” and the first link will be this forum.   TUG is free, and as a TimeShare Owner it is an invaluable source of information.  On this forum there is a thread called “Westin St John Thread” that I have started.  I post under DavidnRobin.  I am a well-known contributor on TUG.  I will be posting WSJ contact info there.  Feel free to post, or to just use the various WSJ contacts to write them about concerns.  I appreciate your time. - David"*

I wrote it quickly, but hopefully enough people will care to find this thread. I posted to as many as I could, but Redweek has a limit per day of contact -I only got thru about 1/3. I will do more tomorrow.

Will it do any good?  I guess we shall see. But if we get enough pressure on WSJ?SVO Management and HOA - perhaps we can get action/resolve.  Anyone with aRedWeek account want to help?  I reached my limit at May 2 rentals.


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## bfkc

*happy to join up*

Hi all

New owner at Westin St John- first stay coming this April.  I'd very much like to join any group looking to make WSJ management more responsive to concerns.

Please keep me posted and thanks for taking the initiative to make this happen!

Brian


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## tomandrobin

Good luck on trying to rally the troops! 

I think it will be an uphill battle, but worht the fight. St John, in our opinion, the jewel of the SVN crown. Too bad it doesn't look like the prized property that it should.


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## rocky

A dark day for the SVO staffers mentioned above.  I bet they are so thrilled their contact info is posted on TUG.  Look out for changing phone numbers!


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## kenzie

*wsj*

Thanks for the contact info i am dialing the phone right now. I own a 3bdr week 17, my cousin owns 3bdr 2weeks in oct, pm me if we can orginize this group and what i might be able to do to help. 

THANKS KENZIE


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## NED

Any thoughts yet on what would be the best approach once a group of owners can be rounded up?


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## DavidnRobin

Below is the list of members for the St. John Board of Directors: 

Mr. Thorp Thomas (President, Treasurer) 
Mr. Reginald D. Billups (Vice President)
Ms. Paulette Carter (Secretary)
Mr. Walter DeCastro 
Ms. Melissa Brookes 

Contact Address:
9002 San Marco Court 
Orlando, FL 32819 

You may send an e-mail to associationmgmt@starwoodvo.com
Please make sure that your e-mail is to the attention of the Board of Directors.  Once we receive the e-mail, it will be forwarded and brought to the attention of the board members.


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## pointsjunkie

do you know if those people on the board are owners or starwood employees?


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## DavidnRobin

pointsjunkie said:


> do you know if those people on the board are owners or starwood employees?



No - I do not know. I believe that they are suppose to be, but not sure. Perhaps someone else here knows HOA board member requirements.

If they are SVO employees - then their email addresses are first_name.last_name@starwoodvo.com.

I would like to comment - that all emails, letters, and/or phone calls should be as constructive as possible - and not vindictive.  We are trying to come up with solutions that are as close to win-win as possible.  Whining will not get you very far, and complaints should be backed-up.

Please be aware that it is easier to get things done if you put yourself in the others shoes, and try and understand their viewpoints and challenges.  In Corporate-speak - this would the similiar as creating opportunities from challenges that are faced.  At the same time do not let it become the standard Corporate answer that they are 'working on it'. How are they working on it?  What is being planned?  When is this going to happen. (etc.)

I realize that most know this, but wanted to make sure that the goal is that keeping the WSJ resort and units in repair is in everybodies interest.  A good way of doing this is to focus on their Corporate Value statement, and use this as an example when discussing issues...

From the SVO Corporate website:
*Company Values *
Our values serve as the guide for how we treat our customers, our owners, our shareholders and our associates. We aspire to these values to make Starwood a great place to work and do business.

We succeed only when we meet and
exceed the expectations of our customers,
owners and shareholders. We have a passion for
excellence and will deliver the highest
standards of integrity and fairness. We celebrate
the diversity of people, ideas and cultures.
We honor the dignity and value of
individuals working as a team. We improve the
communities in which we work.
*We encourage innovation, accept
accountability and embrace change.*
*We seek knowledge and growth through learning.*
We share a sense of urgency, nimbleness 
and endeavor to have fun too.


{I can just imagine nodge after reading this... LOL}
Stay-tuned...


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## LauraS93

First of all, thanks for the email David... my heart almost stopped because I was thinking "wow, someone wants to rent my unit!"  

Ok, now that I recovered... what I am hoping for is for someone to post a standard type email.  What I'd like to do is cut, paste, then of course tweak it and make it my own.  That would make our campaign more successful, as I think many of us do not have the time to start from scratch and write an email, but I'd definitely work off of a standard form if someone could put it out there.


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## DavidnRobin

LauraS93 said:


> First of all, thanks for the email David... my heart almost stopped because I was thinking "wow, someone wants to rent my unit!"
> 
> Ok, now that I recovered... what I am hoping for is for someone to post a standard type email.  What I'd like to do is cut, paste, then of course tweak it and make it my own.  That would make our campaign more successful, as I think many of us do not have the time to start from scratch and write an email, but I'd definitely work off of a standard form if someone could put it out there.



I just finished emailing you back...

Sorry about that... I have had contact with about 5 RWers so far- hopefully they will at least come to TUG.  I have gotten almiost thru the RW rental list - of course, if someone decides to complain to RW - I may get cut-off.

I agree that most will need some type of template - I intend to write one, but have to find the time and inspiration. {perhaps some Vodka and POG will help...}

First, I want to get pertainent SVO/WSJ Management contact info - then I will draft some type of response, and post here.


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## katiestin

I'm replying to the email I received.  Can someone bring me up to date?  Either here or email.  Also, we bought a resale.  Do we have the same voice that people who brought from the Westin?  

Thanks


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## DeniseM

Hi Katie - Welcome to TUG & the best board and nicest group of people on TUG!  

One of our members, David, (DavidnRobin) is working with other WSJ owners to make some improvements in conditions at the resort.  I am sure he will chime in here.  This thread kind of got it all started.

And yes, as a resale owner, you have a voice!


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## katiestin

thanks.  I read the thread you suggested.  Last year we had to call to get the floats replaced in our villa but they were very prompt in replacing them.  Other than a mix up (their fault) at the spa we didn't have any problems.  I do think it could use a bit of updating, especially the furniture.   We found the grounds to be beautiful and very well maintained.  I'm not sure what the problem was in the complaint.  I was concerned with the problem when it rains.  That "ain't" a good thing to happen.  
We don't usually stay in the villa very much because we're at other beaches or doing things, but I do expect the villa not to leak.  

I was absolutely shocked at the price that was quoted in one of the posts.  Whoa!   

Thanks to David and Robin for the email.  I'll keep checking this thread and do what I can to help.


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## DavidnRobin

katiestin said:


> thanks.  I read the thread you suggested.  Last year we had to call to get the floats replaced in our villa but they were very prompt in replacing them.  Other than a mix up (their fault) at the spa we didn't have any problems.  I do think it could use a bit of updating, especially the furniture.   We found the grounds to be beautiful and very well maintained.  I'm not sure what the problem was in the complaint.  I was concerned with the problem when it rains.  That "ain't" a good thing to happen.
> We don't usually stay in the villa very much because we're at other beaches or doing things, but I do expect the villa not to leak.
> 
> I was absolutely shocked at the price that was quoted in one of the posts.  Whoa!
> 
> Thanks to David and Robin for the email.  I'll keep checking this thread and do what I can to help.



To those WSJ folks who found this link from the contact emails that I sent out:

First - Welcome to TUG.  As you will find out - TUG and the Starwood Forum are a fantastic source of information that you will not find anywhere else - definitely more so than what Starwood will tell you. TUG contributors do this on their own time and w/o compensation - other than the satisfaction of helping others.  We have all been newbies at one time, and most found TUG after they bought a Timeshare(s) from the Developer (Starwood) - so we all have been in the same boat when it comes to Timeshare ownership.

For those WSJ Owners - I realize that you cannot post here unless you sign-up first (it's free btw), but if you are not so inclined to do so - it is perfectly okay to lurk and use info that you come across.

I have started to post WSJ contact info for WSJ owners to write/email/call and raise issues of concerns for both the unit and resort.  I am sure, like Robin and I, we all love STJ, and we bought into WSJ so we could have a great vacation - to the standards that appealed to us buying there in the first place. (vs. getting campgrounds at Maho or Cinnamon Bays)

It seems from a variety of sources (and my personal experience) that WSJ has been getting slack in making sure the villas and resort grounds are well-maintained.  What I am attempting to do is band together WSJ Owners - so our voices are heard, and those responsible for maintenance/repair of WSJ are held accountable.

To this end - and if you have also have issues or concerns - I ask you to contact WSJ/Starwood Management and the members of the WSJ HOA and express those issues/concerns in a constructive fashion.

I haven't had a chance to compile complete contact info for WSJ/SVO management yet, but will do so when I get a chance.

If you are so inclined - please sign-up for TUG so you can also post here and state any issues that you may have.  If not - please feel free to contact me directly - and I will post.  Thi sway we can get a general consensus of the issues at hand.

I will also be drafting an email stating my concerns/issues - that I plan to send into everyone at SVO and WSJ that I can.  I will post that draft here.

Anyway - in the meanwhile - thanks for making the time.

Stay tuned...
David


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## DavidnRobin

As I expected - I got an email from Redweek asking me to stop, and to use another venue - oh well - who can blame them.  I guess there must be at least one WSJ Owner who doesn't care about their investment.


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## DavidnRobin

Here are some of the pertainent contact info for WSJ/SVO:

Kim Chappell
Interim General Manager
340.714.6096
kim.chappell@starwoodvo.com

Gregory Gray 
Director of Sales & Marketing Operations
340-714-6086 
greg.gray@starwoodvo.com

James ‘Jimmy’ Dalmida
Director of Operations
james.dalmida@westin.com
{note: svo email extensions bounced back - but not this one}

Graeme Davis
Area Managing Director, South Florida and Caribbean
graeme.davis@starwoodvo.com

Hannah Jones
Villa Guest Relations Manager
hannah.jones@starwoodvo.com

I have not checked all of these email addresses, nor the current status of titles, but these should be pretty much correct.

If anybody receives a response, or a bounceback (undeliverable email) - please let us know.  I am using the standard email addresses for SVO employees.

Thanks.


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## dixonsteve

David,
Just a follow up to our emails to let you know I showed up here.  Thanks for your efforts.


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## DavidnRobin

dixonsteve said:


> David,
> Just a follow up to our emails to let you know I showed up here.  Thanks for your efforts.



Welcome aboard - hopefully we can get some action.

If anybody has other WSJ/SVO contact info (esp email addresses) - please let us know.


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## jimpia

Dear DavidnRobin,
Thanks for taking this initiative!  We have been owners of a 3bdr. unit since 2001.  We love coming to the island, but have been somewhat disappointed in the upkeep of the villa.  It has always been very clean, but it is looking dated and tired.  We were very disappointed that the voting did not pass to update and renovate some of the 3bdr pool villas as well as some of the hillside villas. 
Mostly everything in our villa is below its 50% life expectancy. We feel our maintainance fees are quite high (over $1600.00 per year now) and should see more updates.  Please let me know what we could do to help.


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## Carolyn

DavidnRobin said:


> Below is the list of members for the St. John Board of Directors:
> 
> Mr. Thorp Thomas (President, Treasurer)
> Mr. Reginald D. Billups (Vice President)
> Ms. Paulette Carter (Secretary)
> Mr. Walter DeCastro
> Ms. Melissa Brookes
> 
> Contact Address:
> 9002 San Marco Court
> Orlando, FL 32819
> 
> You may send an e-mail to associationmgmt@starwoodvo.com
> Please make sure that your e-mail is to the attention of the Board of Directors.  Once we receive the e-mail, it will be forwarded and brought to the attention of the board members.



David,

I am a little confused.  Should we just e-mail the group above or some of the other Starwood folks mentioned in a previous post?  Thanks for all your help.

Carolyn


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## DavidnRobin

Carolyn said:


> David,
> 
> I am a little confused.  Should we just e-mail the group above or some of the other Starwood folks mentioned in a previous post?  Thanks for all your help.
> 
> Carolyn



Good question - the HOA board shoul be contacted as a group by sending an email to the management association email address - to the attention of the WSJ HOA Board members - names listed.

and then separately - email the WSJ/SVO Management group.


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## Carolyn

DavidnRobin said:


> Welcome aboard - hopefully we can get some action.
> 
> If anybody has other WSJ/SVO contact info (esp email addresses) - please let us know.



Although this isn't contact information, I found this Question under FAQ on the WSJ area of mystarcentral.com  There are many FAQ, but this is the FIRST question listed which I thought was interesting:

Q:   How do you decide what items need to be replaced at the Virgin Grand - St. John Condominium Owners Association?  


*A:   This is a complex task that involves many different considerations and has a significant impact on the amount of funding required due to the varying life expectancies of fabrics, furnishings, etc. 
Westin Vacation Management Company has a Specifications Committee with representatives from a cross-section of operational departments. Its goal is to target the most cost-effective replacement items for the units and common areas and to evaluate opportunities to streamline processes and systems for the long-term benefit of the resort. This includes specifications for minimum fabric rub counts and improving the specifications for carpeting, bedspreads, drapes, appliances, wall covering, roof material, cookware and pillows to name a few. 

Westin Vacation Management Company believes that buying quality items on the front end and properly maintaining them is the key to ensuring the economic benefits of the replacement reserve program and maintaining the quality of your unit.

*

Maye we need to find out who this "Specifications Committee" is comprised of.

Carolyn


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## DavidnRobin

Yes - this is a standard FAQ on MSC.  What is funnier is the FAQ that says you can volunter to be on the HOA Board and states to look for the form on a link that doesn't exist.

I am thinking of running for the HOA Board at WSJ next vote with all my new found WSJ friends.  

To all lurking - this is an ongoing process - please take the time to zip off an email to WSJ/SVO/HOA.  I am still in the process...


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## melclark1

*Just returned from WSJ*

Hello everyone!  My family just returned from WSJ last night.  While we were there we encountered several issues with our unit.  Last year we didn't notice anything wrong, but this year it seems to have deteriorated quite a bit.  The big issues appear to be a leaking roof (which has been going on for a while since there is mold!) and a sopping leak through the carpet by our balcony door...which we still can't figure out how it is happening since it is in the middle of the carpet and not around the edges by the actual door.  Unfortunately, we had quite a bit of rain while we were there and had the pleasure of dealing with the leaking, dripping roof and the large wet area in front of the door.  The other issues were simple maintenance issues like broken lamps, broken toilet paper holder, disgusting stains on mattresses and bedcovers, etc.  

Needless to say after paying what we paid for our week and then the high MF we expect these issues to be resolved and the units to be maintained properly.  I can handle a few asthetic issues, but dirt, mold and leaks are not acceptable.

My husband promptly called engineering and then Greg Gray.  Engineering came and took care of a couple easy issues, but not the big ones.  Greg Gray never called us back. Then I went on this forum to see if there were other complaints and ran across this post.  This just added fuel to our fire!  

We did not let this ruin our vacation and the grounds were still very beautiful.  Plus, the beaches make up a little for any grumpy feelings we have about the villas.  The last day we stopped at the office and my husband asked for Greg again and was told he was at lunch and they did not know when he would return.  Yeah right!

Right now if we would want to rent our week or sell it we don't feel that we could do it ethically knowing that the unit has these issues.  It makes us very angry that we are paying such high MFs and we get blown off.  

My husband already followed up and sent an e-mail to Greg Gray and we will do whatever else we need to do to help others and get our own issues resolved.  

Keep us posted and hopefully if we all come together something will happen.

Melissa

P.S.  We took pictures of everything and plan to forward with any e-mails we send.


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## DavidnRobin

Sorry to hear, but glad you made the most of it.  Please relay your experience as soon as you get time to the contact info posted above - and anyone else that will listen... keep us up-to-date.
(what villa #?  hopefully not ours)


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## DeniseM

missy22 said:


> P.S.  We took pictures of everything and plan to forward with any e-mails we send.



Hi Melissa - Welcome to the Starwood Forum and to the BEST board and NICEST group of owners on TUG! 

If you would be willing to send me the pictures, I can host them on my webpage where other people can see them.  I think that having everyone contribute pictures so we can develop a visible "evidence file," would be an important step to take to document the problems.

Anyone with pictures -  you can't send them through the TUG email, but click on my name and send me a pm and I will send you my direct email address so you can send me your pictures of problems at WSJ.  Having those pictures online, and available to everyone, should be a powerful motivator for Starwood!


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## Loriannf

*WSJ Maintenance and new Replacement Reserve FEE*

Just got my notice of the BOD meeting to be held in February.  The reverse has the proposed budget and operating expenses for 2008.  Maintenance fees are as follows:

Terrace Suite                  $  808.21
Townhouse Suite              1,077.65
Two Bed Townhouse          1,347.10
Two Bed Premium              1,616.42
Three Bed Pool Villa           1,616.54
Three Bed Premium            1,616.54


IN ADDITION, there's a new Replacement Reserve Fee which is as follows:

Terrace Suite                  $  104.44
Townhouse Suite                 139.26
Two Bed Townhouse            174.08
Two Bed Premium                208.88
Three Bed Pool Villa             208.90
Three Bed Premium              208.90

No explanation, but at least I hope this means they're going to refurb.

Lori


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## kcgriffin

_[letter deleted]

We appreciate your enthusiasm, but this is the 3rd time you have posted the same letter.  The original post is still here for everyone to read:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=451341&postcount=18_

_Thanks - DeniseM Moderator_


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## DavidnRobin

Hello WSJ Owners - as you have hopefully received a Notice of BOD meeting of WSJ (Virgin Grand Villas - St John Condo Owners Assoc.)

Of interest -

The meeting is Feb 25th - and part of the New Business agenda is:
The Approval of 2008 Operating and Replacement Reserve Budget - common except the Operating Expenses Budget is very late.  which leads to...

Revision of Due Dates for 2008 Dues and Taxes - meaning our MFs that are due for 2008 aren't going to be due until March!  (great way to run a business...)

next...

Allocation of Reserve Funds per Category - I believe this is for reserves being used to refurbish the units.  In looking at the back of the notice (Operating Expenses Budget), there is a listing for Replacement Reserve Fee that is part of the Total MF (and Reserves) and is the same amount that is included in the 'Other Expenses' - meaning this is an added Replacement Reserve Fee.

This means that there is a MF increase of 15% for 2008.

If they truly use these fees for unit refurbishing - I am all for it (our villa was showing tremendous wear/tear).

However, this really shows in many ways that WSJ Management and HOA Board members need to take action and start bringing this resort up to the class that Owners expect (along with all visitors). e.g. lateness on required budgets/docs, and not keeping WSJ in good shape with the MFs paid already.   If not, SVO Managment needs to step in and make changes to Management, and we need to attempt to take control of the HOA Board and get concerned Owners involved.

You will notice that the Developer (aka SVO) gives a subsidy of about 25% of the total revenue, and makes no obligation to do so in the future (footnote 3). I am not sure what the conditions of this subsidy are (nor would I like to see it stopped), but I would be interested where/why this money comes into WSJ from SVO.  Is it for the hotel part, etc?


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## ksqdomer

Posted in the other thread as well as here. We have a studio in Bldg 33 week 25. We were told last June that our furniture would be replaced before returning but no bathroom or kitchen upgrades. We have owned since 2002. Our unit has generally been in good shape with a few cracked bath tiles and a one time leaky refrig that was fixed quickly. The pool and grills do seem to be showing quite a bit of wear though. Count me in to participate.


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## DavidnRobin

ksqdomer said:


> Posted in the other thread as well as here. We have a studio in Bldg 33 week 25. We were told last June that our furniture would be replaced before returning but no bathroom or kitchen upgrades. We have owned since 2002. Our unit has generally been in good shape with a few cracked bath tiles and a one time leaky refrig that was fixed quickly. The pool and grills do seem to be showing quite a bit of wear though. Count me in to participate.



This is the correct forum.  Please read above post(s) for what may (or not) be happening with the supposed refurbish an the replacement reserve fee being charged.

As has been suggested is to contact the HOA Board members and asked them pointedly what are their plans/timelines (our issue has been going on for almost 2 years) - and how is this being refected in the buget (MFs).  Now that we have the budget - I will be writing to ask specifics (I actually was able to figure it out somewhat).

Next, regarding the overal operations - write to SVO/WSJ and request action and accountability for the resort.


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## DeniseM

*Archives:  Renting, Requalifying, Harborside Action Plan*

bump...bump...

Hey David - this thread was on page 3.  Do you want to keep it active?  I have been thinking about creating an archive in the stickies for a few threads, like this one, Renting, and Requalifying.


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## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> bump...bump...
> 
> Hey David - this thread was on page 3.  Do you want to keep it active?  I have been thinking about creating an archive in the stickies for a few threads, like this one, Renting, and Requalifying.



Thanks for bumping up.  While a few WSJ Owners have come here - no one has reported on feedback from WSJ/SVO.  I am still waiting for HOA response - beyond the standard SVO reply.


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## Transit

Walter Decastro responds on mystarcentral.com news.


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## DeniseM

Frank - I couldn't find anything.  Can you summarize what he said or tell me specifically where it's posted?  Thanks!


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## islandguy

The article was a very generic one that was in all the resorts newsletter and not specific about STJ.  Doesn't help for the questions raised by the owners of STJ.  Go to the newsletter on the SPG timeshare site. This article is the same in each of the resort newsletters - so it doesn't matter which location you own -- you will see the same item.  

Here is some of the article:

In this question and answer session, Walter DeCastro, an Owner and a member of the Board of Directors at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas, explains how replacement reserves are used to keep your Home Resort looking fresh and new year after year by funding replacements as well as exciting resort refurbishments. 

Q: What is a replacement reserves fund? 
A: A replacement reserves fund is a special fund that helps pay for the  replacement of resort items when they wear out. A replacement reserves fund is a lot like a savings account, in that money is added as annual maintenance fees are collected and left to accumulate interest over time until the funds are withdrawn and used to refurbish an item or facility. The act of investing the reserves helps Associations accrue the funds that will one day be necessary to replace certain items  in a timely manner. 

Q: What kinds of things do the replacement reserves help pay for?
A: In addition to paying for the replacement of furniture, fixtures and equipment in your villa, replacement reserves help pay for resort essentials like roofs, roads, parking lots and resort exteriors. They can also be used to finance deferred maintenance, such as the resurfacing of a pool or spa.

Q: How are replacement reserves funded?
A: Replacement reserves are funded by Owners like you and me. The cost of replenishing the replacement reserves is included in your annual maintenance fees.


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## DeniseM

Thanks - I thought it was going to be something specific about WSJ.

And welcome to TUG!  

Are you a Starwood owner?


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## Transit

Board Member Profile 

Starwood responds to everything genericly,The Newsletter apperance makes it seem as somethings being done.

Name: Walter DeCastro
Position: Vice President and Director of Virgin Grand Villas
Association: The Westin St. John Condominium Owners Association
Resort: The Westin St. John Resort & Villas

Biography: In addition to serving on the Board of Directors, Walter is Chief Executive Officer of Diversified Executive Systems, Inc., a company that provides professional staffing for large utility corporations like Bell South, AT&T and Verizon Wireless. When he's not working, Walter enjoys vacationing in popular destinations like St. John, Hawai‘i, Central America, South America and the Caribbean. His hobbies also include hunting, fishing and golf.


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## islandguy

Denise, 

I'm a Starwood owner -- 5 Star


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## DeniseM

Islandguy - Glad you join us!  Congrats on being 5 Star!


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## LauraS93

DavidnRobin said:


> Yes - this is a standard FAQ on MSC.  What is funnier is the FAQ that says you can volunter to be on the HOA Board and states to look for the form on a link that doesn't exist.
> 
> I am thinking of running for the HOA Board at WSJ next vote with all my new found WSJ friends.
> 
> To all lurking - this is an ongoing process - please take the time to zip off an email to WSJ/SVO/HOA.  I am still in the process...




You've got my vote, sir!!


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## DavidnRobin

I have only gotten the standard reply - I even wrote back to ask them not to send me the standard reply and a real response - and I got a standard reply.  NOT LOL
The HOA board meets next week (if I recall correctly).  I can't wait to go in June for more reasons than just a relaxing vacation.


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## nycmaui

I'm looking at pictures of the St Johns Villa and am quite confused.  Some of the rooms look really modern and some look very old fashioned.

Are the modern rooms hotels and the old fashioned rooms villas?

I hope to go either Mexico or Caribbeans next year using my tradein.


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## seatrout

With all the unhappiness in WSJ-  and the low Starpoint that is has, wouldn't more of you guys want to trade to other place.  Ie non starwood place??


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## DeniseM

WSJ is one of the few luxury resorts on a small island.  You get far more value out of renting it, rather than trading it.  However, most people buy at WSJ to use their week and they, understandably, expect Starwood to produce what they promise.  It is unacceptable to have maintenance issues at a resort of this stature with high purchase prices and maintenance fees..


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## DavidnRobin

nycmaui said:


> I'm looking at pictures of the St Johns Villa and am quite confused.  Some of the rooms look really modern and some look very old fashioned.
> 
> Are the modern rooms hotels and the old fashioned rooms villas?
> 
> I hope to go either Mexico or Caribbeans next year using my tradein.



Some building have 'Westin'-styler design and some are 'older' Carb-style.


----------



## DavidnRobin

seatrout said:


> With all the unhappiness in WSJ-  and the low Starpoint that is has, wouldn't more of you guys want to trade to other place.  Ie non starwood place??



Because STJ is unique - and WSJ while in need of better repair - our concern is if we are paying these MFs fees then what we are paying for should be well-maintained (simple as that)


----------



## pointsjunkie

have the hotel rooms been updated or are they also experiencing the tired feeling?  i booked there for apr 09, before the starpoints go up.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Reviews for the hotel can be poor at times - and getting poorer - but with STJ and WSJ - sometimes the reviews are based over over-expecations. Keep your expectations in perspective - and you should be fine.  Being a 5* may get you upgraded to a TS (if that appeals to you - it does me) - or an OF room.

Please let us know how you visit went - I always enjoy hearing a review from an educated Tugger.


----------



## Loriannf

*Refurb details*

Just received in today's mail a listing of planned refurbishments to the villas.  Basically, it sounds as if they're replacing the carpet, painting, and replacing most of the furnishings.  The letter indicates that the work should be completed between August 15 and November 28, 2008.  

Kitchen and bath updates to be determined.

Lori


----------



## DavidnRobin

I just got a great piece of news from WSJ...

"_Thank you for being a Starwood Vacation Owner and your interest in the quality of your villa, xxxx!  It is with great pleasure to inform you that the living room furniture and drapes in your villa has been replaced. Please do not hesitate to inform us if we can be of assistance!_"

A bit of overuse with the "!" - but we will take it after almost 3 years of requests...
I am so happy - I can barely stand it - happy dance...


----------



## Transit

DavidnRobin said:


> I just got a great piece of news from WSJ...
> 
> "_Thank you for being a Starwood Vacation Owner and your interest in the quality of your villa, xxxx!  It is with great pleasure to inform you that the living room furniture and drapes in your villa has been replaced. Please do not hesitate to inform us if we can be of assistance!_"
> 
> A bit of overuse with the "!" - but we will take it after almost 3 years of requests...
> I am so happy - I can barely stand it - happy dance...



                                                                                                     That's great. about time. assessment?


----------



## DavidnRobin

Gimme some LOVE Baby!!!  

No assessment - this was part of the existing reserves (I assume) - this will be followed up by the refurbish described above of which we were charged additional reserves for 2008 resulting in a 15% increase in MFs.


----------



## DavidnRobin

The following (short-hand {w/ snide comments}) is in regards to the refurbish letter from the WSJ Association Management (somewhat in-line with the couch/draperie replacement)

2/15/08
Assoc. Member,

We are pleased to make you aware of the latest project planned for the WSJ Resort and Villas. (goes on to give the history of refurbish vote that would have passed, but not enough Owners voted... {mainly because of extremely poor comunications on WSJ's part})

Since that time, with the billing of the 2007 MFs, the Assoc's reserves were funded to a level that would allow to begin the replacement of key items.  Included in teh 2007 reserve replacement are sofas, occasional chair, living room drapery, and carpeting for the entire villas (attached).  *Some of these items have already been installed. *{that would be our villa}

With the approval of the 2008 resort budget {15% increase}, we have accumulated enough funds in the reserves to move onto the next phase of replacments.  The specific items are provided (attached).  These replacements are scheduled to begin installation 8/15/08 with completion slated for 11/28/08.

We are currently working on the issues of upgrading the kitchens and bathrooms in the villas.  We will communicate updates regarding these items in the future {based on history - 2015?}

With the 2 previous requests for your vote to approve a refurbishment, we understand there may be some confusion regarding the replacement schedule (no foolin'} and the specific items included.  We hope this letter serves to provide clarity on what you may expect when you next visit WSJ.

Going forward, there is a plan to replace items on a regular basis in conjunction with the replacment reserve schedule. {blah, blah, blah...}

Sincerely
BOD
Virgin Grand Villas - STJ Condo Owners Assoc.

the attachements lists the items being replaced/evaluated for B32, B33, B34, and B41, B42 and #4415, and some limited items in B43, B44, and B31

For B32, B33, and B34 2Bd villas:
Kit - Barstools
DR - chandelier, Consule Cabinet, and Table&Chairs
LR - TV console, Bose Audio System, Chaise Lounge, Cocktail Table, Console Table, Draperies, End Tables, Lamps, LCD Flat Panel TV, Lounge Chair,  Mirror, Sofa
MBR - Bench, Draperies, Dresser, Headboard, Lamps, LCD Flat Panel TV, Mirror, Nightstands
GBR - Draperies, Dresser, Headboard, lamps, LCD Flat Panel TV, Nightstands
Throughout - Artifacts, Artwork, carpet, Interior Paint


----------



## WINSLOW

*WSJ unit conditions*

Still considering and searching WSJ resales.  My question - Is there a list or does anyone know what units are refurnbished and which are still the old (in need of refurbishment) units?  Should the ones in need of refurbishment be less money if size for size they are the same?  Will the older ones end up with a special accessment fee?  Does it make a difference when purchasing, as in all units will end up getting done over eventually?  Thanks for any help


----------



## DeniseM

We have an on-going discussion about that and I am going to move your post to that thread.


----------



## DavidnRobin

WINSLOW said:


> Still considering and searching WSJ resales.  My question - Is there a list or does anyone know what units are refurnbished and which are still the old (in need of refurbishment) units?  Should the ones in need of refurbishment be less money if size for size they are the same?  Will the older ones end up with a special accessment fee?  Does it make a difference when purchasing, as in all units will end up getting done over eventually?  Thanks for any help



The buildings listed above are the 'old' style units, therefore, the other ones are the 'new' style (Westin).  It would seem reasonable that the new ones may be a bit more than the old ones on teh resale market (maybe), but prices are so variable that it will likely be case-by-case.  No special assessment is being done to refurbish as listed above (they increased the MFs for all to add reserves).  I suspect there will always be a 'new' and 'old' style since a total refurbish of the old style would involve a special assessment and based on history this is unlikely to happen since it would need a majority vote with a majority of owners.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I went to make our 2009 WKV reservation this morning - and lo and behold - we were able to reserve our WSJ unit for June 2009 - that is 15 months ahead of time!  The reservation person just went ahead and did it - I didn't even ask.


----------



## NED

It has been that way for several years. Our week is in May so I always try to call ahead. It's easier for me to remember that way.


----------



## DavidnRobin

NED said:


> It has been that way for several years. Our week is in May so I always try to call ahead. It's easier for me to remember that way.




Yes - I have understood it to be from 10-14 months in advance (we generally reserve in April at 14 months prior), but 15 months(?) is even outside the OM for fixed weeks.


----------



## MINNESOTA

*Refurbishment*

DavidnRobin,
    Your response to a Redweek listing I had posted at The Westin St. John in January is how I found out about TUG. My wife and I went to The Westin during week 4 and expected to see new carpet, draperies, and livingroom furniture. We were told that this was the plan for 2007. We have a couch, 2 chairs and new draperies in the livingroom only. We were rather disappointed because we expected more improvments on the interior, although we did  have new patio furniture. 
    This unit really needs the complete refurbishment that was voted on. The kitchen is the worst part of the unit and with the proposal in place for this year, kitchens and baths are not included. For example the counter top is chipped and coming loose in the middle. It has a Almond ref., white range, black microwave, broken tile,mauve formica cabinets and countertops. Not 5 star rated. I'm a home builder myself and the proposal the HOA has is backwards. Normally in construction you would'nt paint and recarpet first and then later change tile, cabinets, countertops, interior doors and trim. This would result in some drywall work, painting again, carpet issues not only with cutoff points but also the dirt and mess on new carpet. 
     The HOA needs to change their plan or vote again and get this refurbishment done right.


----------



## DavidnRobin

MINNESOTA said:


> DavidnRobin,
> Your response to a Redweek listing I had posted at The Westin St. John in January is how I found out about TUG. My wife and I went to The Westin during week 4 and expected to see new carpet, draperies, and livingroom furniture. We were told that this was the plan for 2007. We have a couch, 2 chairs and new draperies in the livingroom only. We were rather disappointed because we expected more improvments on the interior, although we did  have new patio furniture.
> This unit really needs the complete refurbishment that was voted on. The kitchen is the worst part of the unit and with the proposal in place for this year, kitchens and baths are not included. For example the counter top is chipped and coming loose in the middle. It has a Almond ref., white range, black microwave, broken tile,mauve formica cabinets and countertops. Not 5 star rated. I'm a home builder myself and the proposal the HOA has is backwards. Normally in construction you would'nt paint and recarpet first and then later change tile, cabinets, countertops, interior doors and trim. This would result in some drywall work, painting again, carpet issues not only with cutoff points but also the dirt and mess on new carpet.
> The HOA needs to change their plan or vote again and get this refurbishment done right.



Welcome to TUG - you will find this forum to be an invaluable source of infomation.

Have you read what was written above?

The refurbish vote was unsuccessful - WSJ did a lousy (LOUSY! if SVO is reading...)  job of getting the proxies out to Owners in time and unlike had the correct addresses for many owners (I got the proxy for the Week 23 Owner... more later...

OK - back -

You should have received a letter from the HOA at WSJ (VG) - in that letter - which a described above - they discuss what will be changed and what won't.  This is not the total refurbish as attempted by vote (that failed) - this is only a partial refurbish based on what they call their standard wear-n-tear usage (paraphrased...).

Unfortunately - I think it is unlikely that the HOA wil attempt another vote since they are using some monies to make general improvements as needed.  th eoriginal vote would have led to a large special assessment that would have been a total makover of the old units.  Now, just a partial makeover.

Sorry to hear about the condition of your unit - our is not as bad - although our visit is not until this June.  We had already been complaining about the condition of the LR area (especially the couch) for about 3 years - that looks like they have changed.  I do agree with you that some of this refurbish seems backwards.  I do not see a resolution in the short-term since this has all been approved.  The approval process is like a small dictorship in that there is really no feedback prior to setting things into action (or voice of reason).   Unfortunately - the total refurbish vote did not go through - considering that the Owners who voted were in favor - however, not enough Owners chimed in.  From what I have observed this was either because of stupidity on the HOA's part, or downright intended.

I do not think they are planning to make the changes you described - those were part of the total refurbish - not the partial one they are doing.


----------



## bfkc

*early reservations secret?*

A couple of you have mentioned that you were able to book your reservations more the 12 months ahead of time.  Was there any trick to it?

I've called every morning for about a week now and been told each time I was only allowed to book 12 months ahead of time.

Please share your secret!


----------



## DavidnRobin

bfkc said:


> A couple of you have mentioned that you were able to book your reservations more the 12 months ahead of time.  Was there any trick to it?
> 
> I've called every morning for about a week now and been told each time I was only allowed to book 12 months ahead of time.
> 
> Please share your secret!



No trick - they initiate it when I call in for reserving our other weeks (non-WSJ).

Do you own a fixed week in the VG section of WSJ? If so, you should be able ro reserve from 10-14 months out.  If not, then this does not hold.


----------



## bfkc

Fixed week in BV for me (1st stay there coming next month) - guess I'll vae to wait for the 12 month "window" to open.

Thanks anyway!


----------



## bfkc

Sorry- meant to say FLOATING week in BV


----------



## DavidnRobin

The beyond 12 month reservation is for fixed units.
Make sure you fill out the SVO Ownership poll.


----------



## bfkc

*Westin Ferry Owner Discount?*

Hi all

I seem to recall someone posting that WSJ owners get a discounted rate on the Westin Ferry.  Does anyone have more information on this?

Thanks

Brian


----------



## DavidnRobin

bfkc said:


> Hi all
> 
> I seem to recall someone posting that WSJ owners get a discounted rate on the Westin Ferry.  Does anyone have more information on this?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Brian



Yes, WSJ Owners get a discount - it is around 20% off.  For the 2008 cost - you should contact WSJ. Unless someone here has it...?


----------



## MINNESOTA

*Westin Ferry*

We just returned from St. John in February. The current rate for the Westin ferry is: Adults  95.00 non-owner    85.00 owner
          Children 80.00 non-owner    70.00 owner

                                                    MINNESOTA


----------



## pointsjunkie

the new staroption chart has come out for 2009 and wsj has been adjusted just like they said it would be. both sections have been readjusted. so now all you wsj owners start trading within the SVN so we can have  a chance to visit wsj.
there are no more excuses!!!!

you all must be so happy.

the chart does not include svr fountains section os vistana beach club.  i wonder what's going on with that?


----------



## tomandrobin

Nice, even the studios got a little bump up!

FYI...I won't be able to use my studios until 2010 or 2011. So I guess I'll be doing my part to allow others to trade into WSJ.


----------



## DavidnRobin

MINNESOTA said:


> We just returned from St. John in February. The current rate for the Westin ferry is: Adults  95.00 non-owner    85.00 owner
> Children 80.00 non-owner    70.00 owner
> 
> MINNESOTA




Thanks for the update - that is $15pp more for Owners than last year.


----------



## Transit

This is the info that was included with my resevations .I'm wondering if these prices on my reservation are still good or are they going to hit me with the increase.  ........ The Westin St. John Resort & Villas offers round-trip transfers to and from the resort and airport via their private ferry.  As a valued owner, you will receive a discounted rate of $60/adult and $50/childm which entitles you to unlimited ferry trips during your stay at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas.  After gathering your luggage, proceed to the reception desk for The Westin St. John Resort in the airport. The staff at the airport will greet you, assist with luggage, and arrange a private taxi to take you to Crown Bay Marina. Our private ferry will pick you up there for the 45-minute ride directly to the resort dock. The taxi and ferry run on a set schedule coordinated around primary flight times. After booking your flight, please contact Owner Services to book your transfers on The Westin St. John ferry.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Transit said:


> This is the info that was included with my resevations .I'm wondering if these prices on my reservation are still good or are they going to hit me with the increase.  ........ The Westin St. John Resort & Villas offers round-trip transfers to and from the resort and airport via their private ferry.  As a valued owner, you will receive a discounted rate of $60/adult and $50/childm which entitles you to unlimited ferry trips during your stay at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas.  After gathering your luggage, proceed to the reception desk for The Westin St. John Resort in the airport. The staff at the airport will greet you, assist with luggage, and arrange a private taxi to take you to Crown Bay Marina. Our private ferry will pick you up there for the 45-minute ride directly to the resort dock. The taxi and ferry run on a set schedule coordinated around primary flight times. After booking your flight, please contact Owner Services to book your transfers on The Westin St. John ferry.



That wasn't the price last year - knowing WSJ and STJ - it probably has not been updated.  I would double-check as not to be surprised.  If you contact them to arrange the ferry - they wil likely give you the updated price - which sounds like it is $85 (still worth it...)


----------



## DavidnRobin

pointsjunkie said:


> the new staroption chart has come out for 2009 and wsj has been adjusted just like they said it would be. both sections have been readjusted. so now all you wsj owners start trading within the SVN so we can have  a chance to visit wsj.
> there are no more excuses!!!!
> 
> you all must be so happy.
> 
> the chart does not include svr fountains section os vistana beach club.  i wonder what's going on with that?



Wow - it is really happening! Our 2Bd WSJ villa just went to 81K SOs (from 67.1K SOs) - yippee!  The downside is that I can't use the studio side of our WKORV or WPORV villas to do a SVN exchange into a 2Bd at WSJ, but I couldn't anyway since there was never any availability.

Now I can exchange our 2Bd WSJ villa for a 1Bd at WKORV... what a minute - I still wouldn't do that either...   

I wonder if they will update the weekly SO chart - this info comes from the Daily SO chart on MSC.


----------



## Transit

Everythings arranged thats the Info they sent me. A couple of more bucks in kitty. I can't wait...


----------



## Transit

DavidnRobin said:


> I wonder if they will update the weekly SO chart - this info comes from the Daily SO chart on MSC.



If you look at it closely it's combined into one chart now.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Transit said:


> Everythings arranged thats the Info they sent me. A couple of more bucks in kitty. I can't wait...



It looks like I'd better hurry-up and arrange our transportation while they still are listing the lower price - and then use their response when we get to the WSJ office at STT... but be prepared to pay $85pp.

Things on the USVI islands are slow - they haven't even sent out the 2006 tax bills...


----------



## DavidnRobin

Transit said:


> Everythings arranged thats the Info they sent me. A couple of more bucks in kitty. I can't wait...



yes - that info is on the reservation confirmation (I just looked at ours), but if you go to the WSJ website - you will see a different price.

However, I will play ignorant (easy to do) - and show the nice folks at the WSJ office at STT - our reservation confirmation that shows the $60pp RT price.  Our confirmation showed $60pp last year - but we were charged more ($75pp) - I recall this price was on an email that I received from WSJ.

Let's try and hook-up for a PainKiller (or 2) at the Pool Bar.


----------



## Transit

DavidnRobin said:


> yes - that info is on the reservation confirmation (I just looked at ours), but if you go to the WSJ website - you will see a different price.
> 
> However, I will play ignorant (easy to do) - and show the nice folks at the WSJ office at STT - our reservation confirmation that shows the $60pp RT price.  Our confirmation showed $60pp last year - but we were charged more ($75pp) - I recall this price was on an email that I received from WSJ.
> 
> Let's try and hook-up for a PainKiller (or 2) at the Pool Bar.



Sounds good to me ...


----------



## transamdoc

*WSJ advice seeker*

We are considering purchase of new bay view timeshare 2wks(14&15) at 80k/wk for 2br in unfinished villas. We have never purchased a timeshare.

We love St John. Have never been any where else in Carib. We are on a two week vacation pkg now.

How is Starwood doing in general( upkeep,etc)? The prices seem high and the units have not sold as fast as they anticipated, so the prices are the same this year as last year.

We are in a new unit, shower door handle came off, bathroom tissue roll holder fell off wall, loud sound of air conditioner unit from hotel bldg below.

We called " Catered To" rentals and it seems plenty of homes and villas available in Apr and May when we like to visit.

We are from SC, USA. We are in our mid 50's with 2 20 something year old children that accompany us occasionally.
Our impression is that the $160k is pretty pricy for these units, and we might do better just renting a house on the island with a chef and maid at these prices. Seems availability is not an issue.
But the Westin resort amenities are nice, and we have stayed here yearly for 13 years attending a medical conference.
Is Timeshare the way to go? Will we always be able to come to St John? We worry about the fees, taxes, etc with Timeshare purchase. Starwood points seem to offset some of this.

Your advice is greatly appreciated.

JT and HT


----------



## DavidnRobin

I have already given feedback to JT/HT via a private email.  Of course the words RESCIND, RESEARCH and RESALE - were part of my email, but it would be good for others to chime in as so they can make a more balanced decision on a $80K/VOI purchase (yikes!).


----------



## Starwoodnewbie

*Thanks for the warning!*

As a new Starwood member and a new member of this forum, I appreciate the insight regarding the St. John propery.  My wife and I own weeks at Maui and Kauai and have been seriously considering St John.  Living in the Pacific Northwest makes it harder for us to get to the Carribean than it is to get to Hawaii, so we have been giving the matter a lot of thought.  Knowing that the property is not being well maintained makes me question whether we should look elsewhere for our next ownership week. 

Thanks again for the heads up.


----------



## SDKath

$80,000 is pricy.  Everyone here will tell you to buy resale or if the StarOptions/StarPoints are important to you, buy another week resale FIRST and THEN retro that week with a new Starwood purchase (see the retro thread on the sticky at the top of the forum).  

St. John is gorgeous (spent 2 weeks of our honeymoon there) but the older units are having trouble now with upkeep.  MFs are very high.  The new units are supposedly lovely but why purchase from Starwood what you can buy for 1/2 price through resale?  Trading into St. John is difficult so if you go there yearly for conference, you may want to buy that fixed week through resale to guarantee your spot.  Fixed weeks I believe are only sold in the older units; I think the new units float in seasons.  Someone correct me if I am wrong on this.

Take a look at Redweek and other resale sites for availability and resale prices.  Most of those are VERY negotiable too and you will have substantial savings buying that way.  I think the older units will eventually undergo refurb and the current issues will resolve.  It's just all on "island time."

Katherine


----------



## DavidnRobin

We live in the SF Bay Area - and own at WSJ (resale on eBay - Virgin Grand).  While things tend to be on a negative/jaded side of SVO/SVN/WSJ ownership at times here on TUG (me included) - we do love our WSJ/STJ vacations, and would buy another week if we could find another resale bargain and adjacent week to our week.  14 days in STJ is better than 7 days - especially with the long trip - 13-14 hours door-to-door.

I would only consider buying resale at WSJ, but that comes as a fixed week (VG villas) and therefore that fixed week must fit your vacation needs.  It will be a while before the BV villas show up on the resale market.  BV villas are both float and fixed.  Also, VG is Mandatory while BV is Voluntary (refer to the FAQs for more details in what this means and implications)

They bumped up the SOs for the VG section (nice).
Yes, there are maintenance issues - but after all this is STJ - and that comes with the package - no excuse - just reality.


----------



## mariawolf

Our friends who own at St John just came back--they are multiple weekowners of the pool villas (5) plus a couple of studios.
Their pool villas are both renovated and not renovated.  For the third year in a row the microwave has not worked--(and this is in a renovated unit)--this year the counter top microwave had been removed--the older, unrenovated unit got a new sofa--although that was it and apparently it doesn't really go with other things in the unit.
Just thought I would post this--don't know the unit numbers but we have stayed with them the last 5 years (didn't go this year as we are going to our first stay at Frenchman's Cove which we just purchased)and they are the last two units on the right as you drive over the bridge--so thought I would post this for those of you wondering about any improvements!


----------



## Beaglemom3

*Refurbishment/Renovation Costs - WSJ Questions*

1. Does anyone know what the reburbishment assessment was/is for a 2 bedroom at the WSJ ?

The unit I am waiting to close on (3319) has not been done over yet - still has the formica kitchen counters, etc. Or least this is what's been described by the owner.


2. Is there a department or name or number that I can contact who can tell me if/when my unit is slated for upgrading ?

3. Is there a timetable or phase plan that anyone knows of ?

Thank you all once more.
B


----------



## Beaglemom3

I spoke to the sales manager at WSJ and got my answer.


----------



## jerseygirl

Hi J -- 

I have a letter that says my unit will be totally refurbished, using existing reserve funds, by November -- with the exception of the kitchen.

Is that consistent with what you were told?

Hope all is well,

- B


----------



## Beaglemom3

jerseygirl said:


> Hi J --
> 
> I have a letter that says my unit will be totally refurbished, using existing reserve funds, by November -- with the exception of the kitchen.
> 
> Is that consistent with what you were told?
> 
> Hope all is well,
> 
> - B



Hi JerseyGirl,
  Yes, exactly !
  Mark said that they were "required" (his words) to have all renovations completed in buildings 31, 32, 33 by November 1st (per the board) and that there was no assessment. 
   The old kitchens are  areas that could stand an upgrade IMVHO.
  I wonder if there'll be an assessment for the upgrade for the public areas (the main lobby) as mentioned by my salesperson, Dan.
 Thanks,
  B.


----------



## Carolyn

Beaglemom3 said:


> Hi JerseyGirl,
> Yes, exactly !
> Mark said that they were "required" (his words) to have all renovations completed in buildings 31, 32, 33 by November 1st (per the board) and that there was no assessment.



What about Bldg 34?  I thought it was also to be refurbished by Nov. 1??
Thanks.


----------



## DavidnRobin

That is 32,33, and 34... not 31
31 is in 'Westin' style and was redone previously (4 years ago?) - wghile the other buildings are original (late 90s - pre-SVO)

I wrote about the cost and detail in the WSJ Maintenence thead (if I recall correctly)


----------



## Beaglemom3

He may have mentioned 34, but I was selectively listening for bldg. 33. 
Apparently, there are a couple - few? units in 31 not completely done yet.
His name is Mark and he's the sales manager. Very nice.


----------



## Beaglemom3

DavidnRobin said:


> That is 32,33, and 34... not 31
> 31 is in 'Westin' style and was redone previously (4 years ago?) - wghile the other buildings are original (late 90s - pre-SVO)
> 
> I wrote about the cost and detail in the WSJ Maintenence thead (if I recall correctly)




  I did read all that I could find before the OP, but I may have missed your info as my search words were renovation/refurbishment/upgrade, but not maintenance.
 There is a lot of wonderful & helpful info given by the nice Starwood owners here, I just have to search better.

  Thanks.


----------



## DeniseM

This is good info., and I'm going to add it to our WSJ refurbishment thread that is linked in Owner Resources.


----------



## jerseygirl

Beaglemom3 said:


> The old kitchens are  areas that could stand an upgrade IMVHO.
> I wonder if there'll be an assessment for the upgrade for the public areas (the main lobby) as mentioned by my salesperson, Dan.
> Thanks,
> B.



The kitchens in the pool villas are really bad -- but they're not getting redone because the SA didn't pass -- I assume that's the same for all buildings requiring renovation.  They're able to refurb everything but the kitchens with existing reserves, but I think they told me 2-3 years before the reserve funds would be built back up enough to do the kitchens.

I hope Starwood has at least some responsiblity for public areas since the resort has both timeshare units and hotel rooms.  

It's strange that so many Vistana Resort owners are complaining about huge SAs without a vote, yet WSJ required a vote (as I understand it, the majority of owners who did vote voted FOR a SA, but not enough owners voted).  It seems odd that Starwood would proceed without a vote at one resort, but require a vote at another resort.  Maybe it's the way the original docs were written or something ... 

I'm all for keeping a resort in tip-top shape, but something is not quite right with the Special Assessments at VR.  Some are stating that the high $ amounts of the SA are because the original developer didn't fund the reserves properly, but I don't buy that argument.  Starwood bought Vistana out in 1999 --- plenty of time to get the finances in order.  I hope there are enough non-Starwood owners on the board at WSJ to keep Starwood honest.   I think we should get DavidnRobin elected next time around!


----------



## OCsun

jerseygirl said:


> I hope there are enough non-Starwood owners on the board at WSJ to keep Starwood honest.   I think we should get DavidnRobin elected next time around!



I second that!


----------



## DavidnRobin

Update for Property Tax Bills:

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com/

what a mess - the USVI can't collect property taxes and only have themselves to blame

Please remember (esp if you are buying WSJ) - property taxes were last paid in 2005

Other useful USVI and STJ websites:
http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/
http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/
http://vinow.com/
http://www.on-stjohn.com/
http://www.stormcarib.com/
http://gotostjohn.com/live/index.htm


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Cheap Airfare to the USVI on AA*

http://www.ajc.com/travel/content/travel/deals/stories/2008/09/24/virgin_islands_american.html


----------



## CincyTravelers

*On site at Westin STJ*

We just found this user group the other day, shortly after we arrived for 2 weeks.  We own 4 weeks(April 1, October 2 and December 1) in the same 3 bedroom pool unit, bought 3 years ago.  The renovations to the 3 bedroom units seem to be progressing on schedule.

Like many of you, we have had ups and downs here.  Our perception is that things are on the upswing now.  Part of the past problems seem to stem from miscommunicaiton or lack of communication to the owners.

On arrival, we noticed that the grounds looked better than we had ever seen.  Additionally, the our unit was cleaner than in the past.  

The living and dining room furniture in our unit is being replaced, as in others.  It's a good thing because the wood has been scratched and gouged.  After seeing condition of this furniture, we decided that we would make an effort to have damage deposits instituted.  Other SVO properties have damage deposits, so why not here.  We don't want our maintenance fees to go towards damage repairs.  These funds are meant for upgrades and wear and tear.  We assume that this will have to come from the HOA board of directors.  So, we'll be working on getting this on the agenda for the next meeting.  Hopefully, that meeting will NOT be here, but in Orlando.  

The sales person who sold us our units, Jennifer Doran, has left the Westin and now works for a timeshare rental/resale agency that specializes in the Westin, OM Villas (www.omvillasstjohn.com).  I mention this for any of you that may be interested in renting or buying(now is a good time) additional weeks.

We're here for another 10 days, so if we see/find out anything of note, we'll post it here.  

Jeff and Kathie


----------



## Ken555

CincyTravelers said:


> Other SVO properties have damage deposits



Really? Which?

(And welcome to TUG!)


----------



## CincyTravelers

We were told by Starwood Association Management office that other properties had damage deposits - did not say which.


----------



## Ken555

CincyTravelers said:


> We were told by Starwood Association Management office that other properties had damage deposits - did not say which.



Interesting. I haven't seen this at WMH, WKR, WKORV, WKORV-N, WPORV, or Harborside. I agree that they should have a provision for checking rooms after a stay to determine if there were any damages and assessing appropriately. But this can be difficult to manage fairly.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Hurricane Omar - USVI*

Hours away from STJ - Hurricane Cat. 2 (could be Cat. 3 soon)
see post on Carib forum
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83381


----------



## DavidnRobin

The Westin St. John Resort & Villas, regarding Hurricane Omar

Please regard this update on the status of Hurricane Omar. Late Tuesday night, Hurricane Omar was upgraded to a Category 1 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson scale. As of Wednesday morning, the center location was at 14.6N-67.7W with maximum sustained winds of 75 miles per hour, moving northeast at 7 miles per hour approximately 280 miles southwest of St. Croix. The current track projects Hurricane Omar to travel over the island of St. Croix, which is about 50 miles southwest of The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. At this time, we expect to experience greater effects of the storm on Wednesday night and through Thursday morning.

With your safety and wellbeing in mind, we are contacting all of our Owners and guests, urging you to follow the storm’s progress so you may make vacation decisions that best consider the welfare of your traveling party.

Again, please follow the storm’s progress prior to your travel departure to The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. Contact Owner Services at 888.986.9637 or visit mystarcentral.com for resort status updates to ensure the property is operational.


For more information on Hurricane OMAR, please visit the National Hurricane Center: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/


----------



## Loriannf

*Interesting*

Several posters on VI message boards were reporting that they were evacuated from their villas (non-Westin) and moved to the Westin.  This is due to the Westin's position on the island, and the fact that they have their own generator. 

Last time they had a bad storm (hurricane), there was some flooding on the property and damage to the landscaping.  I'm hoping the roofs hold, as we're going to be there in November.

Lori


----------



## James1975NY

pointsjunkie said:


> do you know if those people on the board are owners or starwood employees?



Thorp Thomas and Paulette Temple are SVO employees. Not sure about the rest


----------



## CincyTravelers

*Waiting for Omar at Westin STJ*

We're here at the Westin St John, waiting for Omar to arrive.  Probably around 2am Thursday.

The staff has this all in hand.  Management has put out 3 letters to guests and owners since last night, keeping everyone informed of what's going on.  All beachfront facilities were closed today.  The deli was open earlier and plans were for it to remain open for normal operating hours, depending on the weather.  The Coast Guard ordered all boats off the water today.  There is a 6pm curfew in effect.  Not sure when this will be lifted.  Besides non-Westin villa guests, some locals have checked into the hotel.  Instead of the customary shuttles, SUV's were being used.  This afternoon, free sandwiches were distributed at the Beach Cafe.  

So far, all we've had is rain, coming straight down.  No wind yet.  

Many phone calls from the US to the Westin are being diverted to Westin central reservations.  Cell service is still available, but we'll see what tomorrow brings.  

I'll post an update tomorrow.

Jeff and Kathie


----------



## DavidnRobin

CincyTravelers said:


> We're here at the Westin St John, waiting for Omar to arrive.  Probably around 2am Thursday.
> 
> The staff has this all in hand.  Management has put out 3 letters to guests and owners since last night, keeping everyone informed of what's going on.  All beachfront facilities were closed today.  The deli was open earlier and plans were for it to remain open for normal operating hours, depending on the weather.  The Coast Guard ordered all boats off the water today.  There is a 6pm curfew in effect.  Not sure when this will be lifted.  Besides non-Westin villa guests, some locals have checked into the hotel.  Instead of the customary shuttles, SUV's were being used.  This afternoon, free sandwiches were distributed at the Beach Cafe.
> 
> So far, all we've had is rain, coming straight down.  No wind yet.
> 
> Many phone calls from the US to the Westin are being diverted to Westin central reservations.  Cell service is still available, but we'll see what tomorrow brings.
> 
> I'll post an update tomorrow.
> 
> Jeff and Kathie



Thanks for the update - let's us know how things hold up.
Stormcarib has Omar bearing down on STJ - it has picked up speed - so it should go over quicker than initially projected.  Which building/unit are you in?
Stay Safe.


----------



## GrayFal

I just returned home to a call from Starwood as I am due to check in on Saturday - fingers and toes crossed here!

AA.com doesn't have anything posted.


----------



## DavidnRobin

It will be far out to sea by Sat. as it is moving fast - it will be the aftermath that you will need to deal with.  Moving fast means it will drop less water over a given time interval (so that is good) - winds are 90mph right now and Omar will tightened up as it passes over the USVI/BVI (based on the animated satellite images)


----------



## GrayFal

DavidnRobin said:


> It will be far out to sea by Sat. as it is moving fast - it will be the aftermath that you will need to deal with.  Moving fast means it will drop less water over a given time interval (so that is good) - winds are 90mph right now and Omar will tightened up as it passes over the USVI/BVI (based on the animated satellite images)


I am optimistic at this point - I agree with your assessment of the storm.
My DH is a"cup half full" kinda guy so of course we are not going  

Will continue to check the website.

I also received an email from Starwood - if only they could find us when they send out those darn reservations.


----------



## DavidnRobin

In case you are reading this at 8:09EST
Results for St.John (18.35N, 64.73W):
The eye of the storm is about 124 miles (200 km) away. If the system keeps moving at its current speed of 17 mph and directly towards you, it will take around 7.3 hours (Thursday, Octover 16 at 3:18AM AST) to reach you. Given the current windfield (115 miles from the center), tropical storm winds will be felt in 0.5 hours (Wednesday, 8:30PM AST).

The approximate Closest Point of Approach (CPA) is located near 18.2N, 64.4W or about 24.2 miles (38.9 km) from your location. The estimated time of when the center of the storm will be at that location is in about 14.4 hours (Thursday, Octover 16 at 7:24AM EDT).

Winds are at 90mph and picking up some.


----------



## CincyTravelers

*At Westin STJ*

We're in one of the newer 3 bedroom villas.  I have secured the outside furniture. 

Just received another management update.

We get 2 free movies tonight. 

Depending on conditions:
         . Complimentary breakfast in the conference center tomorrow am
         . Deli to open at 9am tomorrow

The wind is starting to pick up, but it is barely raining.

By the way, renovations started in building 43 on last Saturday.  Building 44 is scheduled to be started on this coming Saturday.

Jeff and Kathie


----------



## DavidnRobin

On the bright-side - you have a story to tell.  Westin is well-equipped (well-built, own generator) and well-positioned for a Hurricane approaching from the west. Be safe - it looks like you will be in for about 8 hours of excitment - starting in about an hour or two.


----------



## DavidnRobin

From USVI/BVI reports - it seems like all went well (considering) - how was your night?


----------



## CincyTravelers

*Westin STJ after Omar*

We awoke this morning to sunny skies.  Omar slid off to the east and spared STJ, but not St Croix.

In the 3 bedroom villas there were some dead palm branches down and water running off the hillside.  No water inside our unit.  Engineering is inspecting all rooms.

Management and staff did a good job with this.  The biggest thing was keeping guests informed.  

We walked down to the beach to see what if there was any damage.  At the entrance to the hotel, there is now a palm tree without a top.  By the administration building, a few small palms uprooted.  Between the pier and building 21, a big tree is down - shallow roots and saturated soil.  This could have happened without a hurricane.  Didn't see anything else of note.

The 3 birds spent the night in the dive shop.  Apparently Repo didn't like this as he was talking up a storm today.

At noon, there was surf at the beach.  I've never seen that before.

Never saw so many people at the pool.  All the chairs were taken, plus a lot of the chairs from the beach were by the pool.  

We just had a brief downpour and it looks like more is coming.

The curfew was lifted at 2pm today, but there was plenty of traffic on the road before that.  Everything should be back to normal by tomorrow.  A lot of the staff lives on St Thomas, so with no ferries, they couldn't get to work today.

If you're coming down this weekend, I don't see anything to worry about.

Jeff and Kathie


----------



## GrayFal

*Just received this....*

Hurricane Omar Update: Your Upcoming Vacation at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas

Dear Thomas & Pat,

We have received new information from The Westin St. John Resort & Villas regarding Hurricane Omar. The resort has resumed normal operations and is ready for your arrival this weekend. Fortunately, the main force of Hurricane Omar did not affect St. John. The resort received no damage and is fully operational. 

The airport on St. Thomas is now operational and the public ferries are expected to be operational on Thursday afternoon. Please check with your airline carrier to ensure that there have been no changes to your planned itinerary.

We look forward to your stay at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. Rest assured, an exceptional vacation experience awaits you.

Be Well, 

Sincerely, 
Suzanne Clark

Vice President, Owner Services 
Starwood Vacation Ownership 
starwoodvacationownership.com


----------



## jerseygirl

Yeah for Pat!!!!  :whoopie:


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Tax Bills?*

Who has received their 2006 WSJ Tax Bills?

I just spoke to the Tax Assessors office after going to their website - and was informed that the tax bills were sent out in August and are currently due!

They had my address correct, but I never recieved a tax bill.

The real bad news is that the tax bills are more that double between 2005 and 2006!  Ours went from $129 to $280 - yikes!


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Who has received their 2006 WSJ Tax Bills?
> 
> I just spoke to the Tax Assessors office after going to their website - and was informed that the tax bills were sent out in August and are currently due!
> 
> They had my address correct, but I never recieved a tax bill.
> 
> The real bad news is that the tax bills are more that double between 2005 and 2006!  Ours went from $129 to $280 - yikes!



http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2008/10/propery-tax-bil.html


----------



## DavidnRobin

Thanks - I have been reading the articles and as I said - I have even spoken with the Tax Assessor's office.

The question still remains - did anyone actually receive a tax bill?

if you have the proper information - you can check out the tax bill info for 2006 and prior years.

http://ltg.gov.vi/office-of-the-tax-assessor-cadastral.html

the search link is on the bottom of the page - you can see yours and others with the right input


----------



## Loriannf

*As with everything VI, don't rely too heavily on the DB*

I just checked our bills; yes they did go up.  But they also show we owe for years that I have a paid receipt.  Guess I'll have to go visit them when I'm down there in November.  Sending things in via mail has not taken care of the problem.

Lori


----------



## DavidnRobin

If you want to know if your tax bills are on the books as paid - you will need to call Finance at 340-776-6698.  I spoke with them today, but the computer system was down.  This would be only for tax bills 2005 and prior.

I can see my prior tax bills on the DB also (not listed as paid or not) - and the latest on the 2006 taxes.  What is weird is that the other weeks for my unit have differing amounts - some higher - some lower.  Typical USVI...

You said you saw them there on the website - but did you receive one by mail?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Threads Oct'08*

WSJ Thread - refurbish photo link
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84417

at WSJ Oct08
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84132

Weird WSJ Question
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84282

B41-B42 Renovations
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83712


----------



## DavidnRobin

Thread on new refurbishes for the Kitchen and Bathrooms (11/3/08)
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84642

Our favorite hot sauce (from STJ) makes the big time...
http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2717&Itemid=1

Trinidad Charlie's West Indian Pumpkin Pepper Sauce

_Nowhere to go and nowhere to be,
“Trinidad Charlie” on a stool next to me,
Readin’ his book ’bout the “haves” and “have-nots,”
In between chapters we take another shot.
And one by one we slide from reality,
With nowhere to go, and nowhere to be…_

from Kenny Chesney "Lucky Old Sun"


----------



## jerseygirl

Not my ad - from myresortnetwork:


23
Gold plus
3318
St / 1  4 
$7,500.00


First floor studio with full kitchen, living room, dining area,full bath, king size bed, washer, dryer. Located next to pool with barbecues for outdoor cooking. Full access to all the resort amenities. The Westin's private ferry provides access to St. Thomas. Beautiful views, beach, workout room and much more. 
(see pictures)  (email owner)    

Call me crazy, but this is a good deal, right?  And, wouldn't it have the added benefit of having DavidnRobin as tour guides?  

If only I had liquidated my stock portfolio a year ago .....

Let's vote on who would make the best neighbor for DnR?

Nodge -- entertainment value
SDKath -- medical emergency
GrayFal -- finds best liquor store bargains


----------



## tomandrobin

jerseygirl said:


> Not my ad - from myresortnetwork:
> 
> 
> 23
> Gold plus
> 3318
> St / 1  4
> $7,500.00
> 
> 
> First floor studio with full kitchen, living room, dining area,full bath, king size bed, washer, dryer. Located next to pool with barbecues for outdoor cooking. Full access to all the resort amenities. The Westin's private ferry provides access to St. Thomas. Beautiful views, beach, workout room and much more.
> (see pictures)  (email owner)
> 
> Call me crazy, but this is a good deal, right?  And, wouldn't it have the added benefit of having DavidnRobin as tour guides?
> 
> If only I had liquidated my stock portfolio a year ago .....
> 
> Let's vote on who would make the best neighbor for DnR?
> 
> Nodge -- entertainment value
> SDKath -- medical emergency
> GrayFal -- finds best liquor store bargains



Good price, but no where near what I bought my studios.


----------



## jerseygirl

tomandrobin said:


> Good price, but no where near what I bought my studios.



Really?  Do tell!  Same season (I LOVE early summer)?


----------



## tomandrobin

Sent you a PM.


----------



## DavidnRobin

stop on by... maybe that hidden rum will still be around...

we just made our flights
SFO-ATL-STT Delta - $900RT pp
(no AA  )

good enuff...


----------



## MilesPerGallon

*Wsj 2009 Maintenance Fee's Through The Roof!!!*

Folks,

I'm new to this forum and am glad to hear others are as outraged by the 2009increase as I am.  The breakdown of the expenses for my one bedroom unit is as follows:

-Housekeeping & Unit Amenities- $305.55/Week - The room is cleaned up at the start of the week and they "tidy up" once during the week.
-Repairs and maintenance - $220.49/Week- ???
-Utilities, Telephone, Cable, Internet - $377.44/Week - ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!
-Administration - $193.35/Week - Administer What?? Maintenance Fee Increases!!
-Activities/Security - $98.71/Week
-Fixed Other Expenses- $258.77/Week - WHAT OTHER EXPENSES COULD THERE POSSIBLY BE??
-Reserve for Bad Debt/Insurance - $70.03/Week
Replacement Reserve - $692.12/Week - That's over $35K/Year!!!!

Total- $2216.48/Week minus $232.87 "Developer Contribution Which They Say Will Eventually Be Eliminated"

These costs are out of control.  I've been an owner since 1999 when our yearly fees were $450.00.  As owners, what recourse do we have to keep these costs down??  I think that there needs to be an audit.  This is getting out of hand.


----------



## DeniseM

Welcome to TUG!  

We have another thread specifically about issues at WSJ where you can read other owner's posts, so I'm going to move your post to that thread.


----------



## DavidnRobin

MilesPerGallon said:


> Folks,
> 
> DeniseM - move this one also - and feel free to delete the suggestion not to post ARDA and SVN fees.
> 
> I'm new to this forum and am glad to hear others are as outraged by the 2009increase as I am.  The breakdown of the expenses for my one bedroom unit is as follows:
> 
> -Housekeeping & Unit Amenities- $305.55/Week - The room is cleaned up at the start of the week and they "tidy up" once during the week.
> -Repairs and maintenance - $220.49/Week- ???
> -Utilities, Telephone, Cable, Internet - $377.44/Week - ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!
> -Administration - $193.35/Week - Administer What?? Maintenance Fee Increases!!
> -Activities/Security - $98.71/Week
> -Fixed Other Expenses- $258.77/Week - WHAT OTHER EXPENSES COULD THERE POSSIBLY BE??
> -Reserve for Bad Debt/Insurance - $70.03/Week
> Replacement Reserve - $692.12/Week - That's over $35K/Year!!!!
> 
> Total- $2216.48/Week minus $232.87 "Developer Contribution Which They Say Will Eventually Be Eliminated"
> 
> These costs are out of control.  I've been an owner since 1999 when our yearly fees were $450.00.  As owners, what recourse do we have to keep these costs down??  I think that there needs to be an audit.  This is getting out of hand.



I hear and feel your pain - as we own 2 weeks.
There is a WSJ thread which (when I get a chance) will be expanded upon this issue.  But, it is very difficult to get accountability or 'true' Owner representation at SVO Resorts (not just WSJ).  WKORV and now WPORV also have out of control increases (avg. >10% per year for 3 years).

I started a campaign to do something about the recent maintenance issues which got their attention - this would be a larger undertaking that likely could only get resolved by a lawsuit.


----------



## MilesPerGallon

We own two weeks as well.  I feel a little better for having vented. I contacted SVO HOA and they basically said most costs are out of their hands and that the rise is lower than the rate of inflation.  It seems to me that the new GM hasn't done a very good job in keeeping costs down.  My fees increased by $800/Week this year.  I'd like to hear more about the campaign that you mentioned.....

Thanks,
MPG


----------



## Joshadelic

I have a question for all of you WSJ owners...

I definitely agree that the Staroptions that WSJ owners are given for trading within SVN are not enough.  The biggest reason WSJ is so hard to trade into is because there is not enough incentive to do so.  How many Staroptions do you all think those units are REALLY worth?

Example - If a 2br in shoulder season at WSJ is worth 95,700 SO's, would someone who is an owner there consider trading it if it were worth 148,100 SO's?  Would it be worth it at that point?  If not, what would a fair amount of SO's be?


----------



## jerseygirl

I'm a new owner, so perhaps the novelty will wear off in the future .... but, for now, I wouldn't trade mine for any amount of SOs.  I'm lucky in that I can finally travel during non-school holidays and, as such, can get all of the other Starwoods with inexpensive traders (Harborside is a still a little difficult, getting easier in this economy, but I own there too so have my "fix" locked in).  I'm a believer in the "buy where you want to go" for my top 2-3 weeks, but definitely benefit from traders that provide for nice, inexpensive trading opportunites.


----------



## tlpnet

Joshadelic said:


> I have a question for all of you WSJ owners...
> 
> I definitely agree that the Staroptions that WSJ owners are given for trading within SVN are not enough. The biggest reason WSJ is so hard to trade into is because there is not enough incentive to do so. How many Staroptions do you all think those units are REALLY worth?
> 
> Example - If a 2br in shoulder season at WSJ is worth 95,700 SO's, would someone who is an owner there consider trading it if it were worth 148,100 SO's? Would it be worth it at that point? If not, what would a fair amount of SO's be?


 
Josh,

Difficulty trading into WSJ really has nothing to do with SO/SP value incentive. The difficulty is comprised of a few reasons. 1.) The original phase was sold almost exclusively as fixed unit/fixed week and fractional (1/12) ownerships and many owners plan an annual vacation during their purchased week. It is even difficult for WSJ owners to trade their week at 12 months out. 2.) There is a thriving rental market for these units that sometimes far exceeds the MF's. There are agents there that specialize in rentals and resales of WSJ weeks. 3.) Everyone was guessing/hoping that the addition of the Bay Vista phase would open up trading. Almost at its opening, WSJ launched into interior refurbishments of VG, then starting this year, new major refurbishments of kitches/baths etc. (which we're paying dearly for). The displaced VG owners are being put into BV leaving trades into BV almost impossible as well because they're full of VG owners.

I purchased WSJ because I don't usually plan my vacations in a way that I am on the phone at 6am at exactly 8 months out. After calling probably 50 times hoping something would open up, I just made the plunge. I like the week I purchased, and I'm not unhappy with the SO's. The SP conversion is ridiculous, but I don't care. I have no intention of ever using either.

-tim


----------



## Joshadelic

So you mean that even if a 1br hurricane season WSJ owner could trade into a 2br in Hawaii, that wouldn't be enough of an incentive to trade that week through SVN?  I'm just trying to figure out under what circumstances a Staroption trade would be attractive to a WSJ owner.


----------



## joeamyaloha

*Trying to reserve WSJ - "developer inventory"*

Is anyone aware of "developer inventory."  I am trying to reserve WSJ in Oct. 09.  Being told there are no units available, yet I can go onto spg.com and reserve a 2 bedroom villa for $1,150 a night.  When we purchased it was my understanding that there were no restrictions or blackout dates.  This was a big selling point to being in the Starwood family.  So, if there are units available to the general public but not an owner this is very discouraging.  Talking with the Westin Owners reservation line I am being told that the units in the "developer inventory" are not open to owners.  Anyone else experience this??


----------



## islandguy

joeamyaloha said:


> Is anyone aware of "developer inventory."  Talking with the Westin Owners reservation line I am being told that the units in the "developer inventory" are not open to owners.  Anyone else experience this??



Developer inventory is a common practice in all timeshare companies.  If a unit hasn't sold then the developer can do what he/she wants wtih that unit.  Why give it away free to the other owners.  

The slogan about being able to use your points without blackout refers to the hotel points and not the timeshare points. 

Remember the developer pays maint fees on all unsold units -- so it's like you the owner of a 2 bdr at St. John renting it -- except the developer has a built in distribution system (i.e. spg.com) to rent his units and it is visible to you.

After you buy your unit you are of little value to the timeshare company -- they make money from the purchase and need to increase sales every year.  Your maint money goes to the resort and the management company (which in some cases is SPG) but is nowhere near the profit level that new purchases are.


----------



## DeniseM

joeamyaloha - welcome to TUG!  

Westin St. John is a nearly impossible exchange.  Most of the weeks are fixed and owners use them or rent them for big bucks.  You might consider Harborside instead, which is slightly easier.  To have the best shot at a WSJ exchange you need to call at exactly 8:59 a.m. ET, on Fri., Sat,. and Sun. for your desired dates and be persistent.

In addition to what Island Guy said, any week that are converted to Starpoints go into developer inventory, and the developer can do anything they want with them.


----------



## shanblom

*Selling, renting...WSJ*

We own a week in a one bedroom at WSJ and won't be able to go this year.  We have considered selling, but I wanted to know how easy it would be to rent and how much could I expect to get?  We are paid up for 2009 and I was considering selling, but if I could rent it for my maintenance fees (or close to it) I would just keep it.  

I hope this is the correct spot to post this, if not, sorry.

I appreciate your advise.


----------



## DeniseM

You should have no probelm renting it for at least your MF, but if you sell it, you would probably lose at least 50% of the retail price, so I wouldn't sell it right now.

Besides the free TUG classifieds, I personally use the following cheap and free rental websites.

www.craigslist.org (free)

www.redweek.com

    * Membership $14.99 for 12 Months
    * Timeshare Rental Postings - $19.99/ea for 6 Months - $49.99/ea for 12 Months

www.myresortnetwork.com

    $19.95 posting fee ($24.95 for a float week ad)


----------



## tlpnet

The other thing to know about being able to rent villas from SPG (hotel) specifically at WSJ is this. Starwood took four buildings from the hotel and converted them into the Bay Vista phase. Only two buildings have been transferred to SVO. The other two buildings are still "owned" by the hotel. Therefore, they have two buildings (fully built out into Villas) that eventually will be part of SVO that they currently rent through SPG. They have to sell a certain percentage of the two SVO buildings before the other two buildings are "sold/transferred" to SVO.

-tim


----------



## jerseygirl

Joshadelic said:


> So you mean that even if a 1br hurricane season WSJ owner could trade into a 2br in Hawaii, that wouldn't be enough of an incentive to trade that week through SVN?



Yes, that what it means for me.  I can use a much less expensive trader to get that 2-BR in Hawaii and therefore would never give up my WSJ for it.  For me, it's a combination of preference and availability -- both of which could change in the future.  I can only respond as to how I feel _today_ and based on _today's _availability.  Hope that makes sense -- I'm sure others feel differently.  

Remember that the assignment of SOs/SPs associated with a particular resort/week/unit is decided by the same people who sell units for astronomical prices to unsuspecting tourists, create loyalty promotions like the Elite program and then remove benefits when they feel like it, change Elite requirements with zero notification, increase the number of SOs when sales are underwhelming (e.g., Lagunamar), remove benefits for resale buyers which clearly hurts those once valued clients who actually paid full retail prices, etc.  Personally, I have the same opinion of StarOption/StarPoint values as I do of most of Starwood's practices.  In other words, just because *Starwood* says your unit is worth X SOs/SPs, don't always believe it!  :ignore:


----------



## DavidnRobin

before I forget - since this is the merged WSJ Thread - LisaRex just did I wonderful trip report to WSJ - here

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90911


----------



## DavidnRobin

Onto this topic - there is no black/white answer to what the SOs are worth, or the availability of units as a SVN exchange.

Is the SO allocation fair?  I would say 'fair enough' now that they have been raised.  I almost did use our 2009 week to do a SVN exchange until we picked up a 2nd week (adjacent to our week - same unit - same check-in day).  After this decision to pick up a 2nd week - we were notified of a 50% increase (for 3 years) in MFs as a special assessment for an extensive refurbish (no vote - forced upon WSJ Owners) - this increase would have stopped me from using the SOs for a SVN exchange because they are now $2400 (vs. $1600) and that is too much to pay to feel good about a 1Bd exchange into HI.  This increase would have essentially caused me to rent the unit to offset the MFs instead of a SVN exchange - since I would not pay $2400 to stay in a 1Bd in HI.  Instead I cancelled our WKV stay and used that for a SVN exchange into a 1Bd at WKORV.  That is a great value for WKV with low MFs - and I reason I believe WKV is the best value as a M resort goes.

So it is just not about the SO value - it is also about the MFs (which we were blind-sided with a 50% increase) - luckily it is just for 3 years -luckily we go with another couple that helps offset the cost. Be aware that the taxes are about to double and have not been billed since 2005 {double ouch} so this may also have impact on WSJ rental values.

The SO -SP conversion is just not worth it - 22K SP to convert our week???!!!! who in their right mind ever do that?

As to availability - in going thru the Recorders Office and Tax records (when it was free to do so) - I found tons of units owed by 2 groups with similar names - I mentioned them before (something like Westin Vacation Club) - that I assume to be a block of units owned by WSJ for the purposes of renting.  Another thing I have commented on is that there seems to be plenty of empty units during our week 24 stay in our building AND people staying in the villas that were upgraded from the Hotel side.  Given this - I would say that there is more than meets the eye when it comes to WSJ availability via SVN or outright renting from SVO-WSJ.

I do think SVN availability has opened up with BV opening - since there seem to be more reports of successful SVN exchanges (e.g. LisaRex getting a SVN exchange).


----------



## DavidnRobin

shanblom said:


> We own a week in a one bedroom at WSJ and won't be able to go this year.  We have considered selling, but I wanted to know how easy it would be to rent and how much could I expect to get?  We are paid up for 2009 and I was considering selling, but if I could rent it for my maintenance fees (or close to it) I would just keep it.
> 
> I hope this is the correct spot to post this, if not, sorry.
> 
> I appreciate your advise.



It is not a good time to sell a TS - I would advise only doing so if you cannot afford to keep it.  Renting is possible, but you need to be smart and proactive about it - and be reasonable in your expecations on what you will get for it - it is a niche market.


----------



## joeamyaloha

Thanks for the reply.  Feel this is counter to the sale pitch.  It was all about 
the great "flexibility" of the Starwood family.  I am from Chicago and never had intentions to goto HI every year.

Thanks for the pointer into Harborside.  Actually will be visiting next week - 2/21 - 2/28.


----------



## DeniseM

joeamyaloha said:


> Thanks for the reply.  Feel this is counter to the sale pitch.  It was all about
> the great "flexibility" of the Starwood family.



Yeah....you can believe about half of what the told you!

For lots of info. about how Starwood (really) works, check out the FAQ at the top of the board.


----------



## tlpnet

DavidnRobin said:


> I do think SVN availability has opened up with BV opening - since there seem to be more reports of successful SVN exchanges (e.g. LisaRex getting a SVN exchange).


 
I think LisaRex and the few others were very very lucky. I can usually be flexible in vacation planning, and decided this would be a good year to go to WSJ twice. Just two days ago, I had a very pleasant 45 minute conversation with a reservation agent while her computer was checking every unit size for availability between now and the 8-month reservation window at WSJ, and there were precisely ZERO units available.

I do believe there was a window of availability when people were able to exchange in, but I think that window closed when they started the renovations and had to use the open weeks to put VG owners in.

-tim


----------



## LisaRex

Tim,

I do consider myself lucky for nabbing a platinum plus week but I found it very odd that my building seemed almost empty when we were there!  Now perhaps we simply missed each other, but there was very little evidence of other people -- no sounds coming from adjoining units, no lights in the rooms as we passed, no garbage or luggage sitting outside the rooms, no people looking out their balcony, very few people grilling.  We never had difficulty getting a tennis court nor did we have trouble finding 4 lounge chairs together at the pool.  There was no wait at the poolside bar.  Only once did we meet someone else in the elevator.  

So I'm a little puzzled why there were only two units available when I called at 8 months out when it's pretty obvious that it was pretty empty.  Do owners pay their MFs and not use them?  There was one couple we met who were staying for 2 weeks.  Their friend, an investment banker in Boston, owned 3 weeks and could only stay for 1 so he offered up the other 2 weeks for the cost of MFs.  So maybe some owners are wealthy enough to just write off the cost of MFs and not be bothered renting...

***

In any event, I'm sure you've already done this, but have you tried Friday or Sunday check-in?


----------



## tlpnet

LisaRex said:


> In any event, I'm sure you've already done this, but have you tried Friday or Sunday check-in?


 
Actually although they haven't given us online reservations yet, they have enhanced the reservations system that the reservationists use. It used to be that they could only search a few months at a time with limited parameters. They can now make expanded queries which cover the entire bookable period for F/S/S checkin in all unit types. They have learned what queries take forever to run, and break them down to make them run faster. That is why it took 45 minutes to run the queries to search everything available.

You're definitely not the first person to observe lack of people. I haven't ever stayed in BV, but I have noticed that it seems that there are units not occupied in VG when I've been there also. I suspect you may be right - it's always been relatively expensive to purchase there, and many units were sold as fractional (even more expensive). Possibly some of the owners are wealthy enough to just not care.

-tim


----------



## DavidnRobin

This has been exactly my observation - plenty of empty villas for 3 years now.  I have even had this discussion with other people while staying there - asking them how they got their units - and few have been Owners (I tell these about TUG) - mostly people renting from Owners - renting from WSJ - and/or upgraded from the Hotel.

Perhaps there are those with too much money (but why would they own a measily studio?).

btw - villas have 1 down week for repairs.  Have Owners really been shifted from VG to BV villas? I haven't heard of this - nor have I seen this reported.  I would be pissed if when we arrived in June - we were shifted to BV - I do not believe that by contract they are allowed to do this - they can shift us to another 2Bd TH in the VG section - but BV is operated as another resort and the villas are not equilvalent. {not that the villas aren't nice - for us it would be not be able to park in front of our unit and the lack of semi-private pool - this is a big downside of the BV section}


----------



## tlpnet

When they were replacing the carpet, furniture, and painting, the units were down for more than a week at at time. I also own a pool villa, and when I was there in October, they were closing down one building at a time. I spoke to maintenance folks as well as others there, and they told me that owners that showed up and were put in BV were NOT happy. I agree - I'll be really disappointed if when I get there in October, I can't be in my villa. However, if they are replacing kitchens, baths, and roofs, it's certainly going to take longer than a week.

-tim


----------



## olivias dad

I hope the renovations are worth the higher maintenance fees.  From what I've heard, more people have been complaining about higher MF's vs. their newly renovated units...


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Live Blog from STJ*

http://islandgirl.typepad.com/stjohnusvi/

live someone's vacation real (island) time - great photos - gives you a great flavor of visiting this area.
{and helps to answer the question "Would I enjoy STJ?"}


----------



## DavidnRobin

*STT-STJ Pubic Ferry cost change*

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17634613


----------



## DavidnRobin

*American Eagle adding flights to VI*

http://www.caribbea.net/index.pl/article_home?id=17634819


----------



## olivias dad

Is it worth taking the Westin Ferry?  It seems to be far more expensive than the Red Hook Ferry.  Plus we plan on renting a vehicle in Cruzy Bay then just drive to the Westin?  I;ve heard they rent vehicles at the Westin as well, any thoughts?


----------



## DavidnRobin

olivias dad said:


> Is it worth taking the Westin Ferry?  It seems to be far more expensive than the Red Hook Ferry.  Plus we plan on renting a vehicle in Cruzy Bay then just drive to the Westin?  I;ve heard they rent vehicles at the Westin as well, any thoughts?



We have done it both ways - we now choose to take the Westin Ferry and rent at O'Connors at the Westin - convenience vs. expense - YMMV


----------



## Loriannf

*With kids, highly recommend Westin Ferry*

It's less crowded, and you're taken directly to your villa.  If you do Red Hook/Charlotte Amalie ferry, you'll leave the airport in a crowded safari taxi, stop several places on the way to the dock, join in the mad rush to buy tickets (price just went up to about $8/person each way), pay to have your bags loaded (charged per bag), ride a crowded ferry, arrive in Cruz Bay, mad rush to get off the ferry and reclaim your bags, stand in line for a taxi or walk over to get your rental (more time), then drive to the Westin, check in, and then head to your villa.  

The Westin ferry also allows you to travel back and forth to St Thomas at no additional cost.  

We also rent from O'Connor's at the Westin and have been happy with their service and the relatively new fleet of vehicles.  

When you add up the cost, it really only saves you about $10/person to take the Red Hook ferry (assuming Westin owner rates) and the Westin one is much nicer and the overall travel time can be quite a bit shorter.  

Just our opinion from years of traveling back and forth from WSJ with a now 7 year old.

Lori


----------



## islandguy

olivias dad said:


> Is it worth taking the Westin Ferry?  It seems to be far more expensive than the Red Hook Ferry.  Plus we plan on renting a vehicle in Cruzy Bay then just drive to the Westin?  I;ve heard they rent vehicles at the Westin as well, any thoughts?



I'm a big fan of renting a car or jeep at the aiport and driving to red hook and taking the car ferry.  It is much cheeper than the westin ferry or the taxi/ferry or renting on St. John. 

I go at least twice a year and I rent at the ariport every time.  In fact I'm going in 12 days to the Westin in STJ and I've got my car reserved with Budget.

Plus you can shop at the box stores on St. Thomas prior to going over and save on food. 

Just another opinion.


----------



## Carolyn

islandguy said:


> I'm a big fan of renting a car or jeep at the aiport and driving to red hook and taking the car ferry.  It is much cheeper than the westin ferry or the taxi/ferry or renting on St. John.
> 
> I go at least twice a year and I rent at the ariport every time.  In fact I'm going in 12 days to the Westin in STJ and I've got my car reserved with Budget.
> 
> Plus you can shop at the box stores on St. Thomas prior to going over and save on food.
> 
> Just another opinion.



Just be aware not all STT car rental companies let you take the car to St. John.  Also you are on your own if the STT rental vehicke breaks down on St. John  

Carolyn


----------



## islandguy

Friday I'm off to STJ for a week and then STT for a week.  We have a studio at STJ and I called Starwood to see if they had a 1 bdr or 2 bdr I could upgrade to -- no such luck--even if I paid the upgrade points.  They said that once a person converts their week to hotel points it comes out of the timeshare inventory and becomes rental or hotel use.  So I guess that is why so many empty units all the time.  

Flight gets in at 1PM so I will drive to a few stores on STT and get the food, wine, and rum.  Then its off for the 15 min ferry ride to STJ and a week of water days and sand gravity.

The second week we will be on STT near the Ritz (Elysian) so it is a total of two weeks of relaxing on a great set of islands.  Going to enjoy Roberts the beach restaurant and bar on STT.  Carnival is going on so I will do a couple of days watching the locals enjoy their music and dance. Fireworks on STT the 2nd of May. 

If anyone wants info on STJ I attempt to get the answer.  Let me know.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Lucky you.  ~6 more weeks for us...

I doubt WSJ VG are converting their VOI SOs to SPs - I say this because ours is worth 22K SPs - that's right - not a typo - a 81K 2bd/3Ba WSJ TH (Gold Plus) is only worth 22,000 SPs (no thanks) - and MFs for the next 3 years are going to run at ~$2500 and taxes will be around $280/yr (once billed) - talk about a lousy conversion (hard to find a worse SO-SP conversion) - luckly they increased the SOs in 2009.

you have to really love STJ to put up with this (we do) - luckily we have another couple tavelling with us to offset the costs. Non-Westin villa rentals are now much cheaper than renting at WSJ..


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Photo Contest*

http://www.sharemyusvi.com/en/home/home

some nice photos (by locals) of the USVI


----------



## applekor

DavidnRobin said:


> Lucky you.  ~6 more weeks for us...
> 
> I doubt WSJ VG are converting their VOI SOs to SPs - I say this because ours is worth 22K SPs - that's right - not a typo - a 81K 2bd/3Ba WSJ TH (Gold Plus) is only worth 22,000 SPs (no thanks) - and MFs for the next 3 years are going to run at ~$2500 and taxes will be around $280/yr (once billed) - talk about a lousy conversion (hard to find a worse SO-SP conversion) - luckly they increased the SOs in 2009.
> 
> you have to really love STJ to put up with this (we do) - luckily we have another couple tavelling with us to offset the costs. Non-Westin villa rentals are now much cheaper than renting at WSJ..



I'm with you David, We get a whopping 25,000 sp for our 3 bd pool villa in bld 44.  We can actually stay one night at the St Regis in NY with that!            Oh sorry , no we cant.  I guess we will just have to use it for seven nights in St John.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Recent (4/22/09) Thread on WSJ/STJ*

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=708963#post708963


----------



## DavidnRobin

*AA is requesting arriving at STT 6 hours before boarding*

{oops - I meant 4 hours - DeniseM - can you change this?}

No joke.

I got this tidbit from "News of STJ" which I follow on Twitter.

http://www.newsofstjohn.com/

Amazing - and goes for another reason as to why I will not fly AA to/from STT if i can avoid it.

The reason... the inept AA workers and AA check-in system at STT.


----------



## DavidnRobin

STJ trip report with photos.
http://www.traveltalkonline.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=998249&an=0&page=0#Post998249


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> {oops - I meant 4 hours - DeniseM - can you change this?}
> 
> No joke.
> 
> I got this tidbit from "News of STJ" which I follow on Twitter.
> 
> http://www.newsofstjohn.com/
> 
> Amazing - and goes for another reason as to why I will not fly AA to/from STT if i can avoid it.
> 
> The reason... the inept AA workers and AA check-in system at STT.



Wow....That is crazy. 

We had a major problem with our scheduled flights for our June trip, flying with Continental. We booked our airfare in the fall and in Feb they rescheduled our Friday flight to a Saturday flight. Luckly, we caught the change in schedule and was able to switch airlines and airports (which is another story).


----------



## DavidnRobin

Delta has moved our flights about 3x so far - luckily they have been improvements in our schedules (we had a tight layover time in ATL at one point).

You will see what a mess STT is - no organization at all - and then add in AA counter people with real attitude.  And knowing STT/USVI - it is not going to change anytime soon.


----------



## applekor

tomandrobin said:


> Wow....That is crazy.
> 
> We had a major problem with our scheduled flights for our June trip, flying with Continental. We booked our airfare in the fall and in Feb they rescheduled our Friday flight to a Saturday flight. Luckly, we caught the change in schedule and was able to switch airlines and airports (which is another story).



tomandrobin- Same thing happen to us.  Of course I approved the change not even noticing  the date change from friday to saturday.  When I did discover it , Continental let me cancel and book on another airline that was not nearly as cheap as original res.


----------



## tomandrobin

applekor said:


> tomandrobin- Same thing happen to us.  Of course I approved the change not even noticing  the date change from friday to saturday.  When I did discover it , Continental let me cancel and book on another airline that was not nearly as cheap as original res.



We could not rebook a non-stop flight. We ended up switching from Newark, NJ to BWI, Md. We still have a connecting, but BWI is a 45 minute drive vs 2:15 and parking is only $6.40 a day. Plus we arrive earlier at STT then our canceled flight. We are happier with our new travel plans. The downside is we book our airfare early to lock in the best deal. We lost 6-7 months becuase of having to rebook, so we know we didn't get the best deal.


----------



## olivias dad

AA rescheduled our flight from BOS to the night before!! good thing i checked the itinerary.  Was able to get a new flight roughly the same time....pheww.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*More STJ links*

http://www.stjohnsuntimes.com/

http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/podcasts/
(not a new link - but links to the STJ podcast)

Go Slow - Stay Left.


----------



## DavidnRobin

old videos of STJ-STT (1983) in 3 parts from the web-site 'On St John'
http://www.on-stjohn.com/

http://www.on-stjohn.com/2009/04/13/1983-jeep-cam-part-one/

http://www.on-stjohn.com/2009/04/20/1983-jeep-cam-part-two/

http://www.on-stjohn.com/2009/04/27/1983-jeep-cam-part-3/

my... how things have changed...
{added: in case you are confused in part 1 - they have mixed new and old footage - as they cruise by the Westin and show what it used to look like before anything was there - since it didn't exist in 1983}


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Cruz Bay Dock Cam - Back Up*

http://www.stjohnspice.com/stjohnspicecam.htm

brought to you by St John Spice Co (one of our favs)

it's been raining - finally - islands have been turning brown after long drought.


----------



## Loriannf

*Just returned from our trip on Saturday*

Our unit, 4210, has yet to be refurbished.  It was, seemingly, freshly painted, but the carpet (the blue-green wavy one installed about 3 years ago) is showing heavy wear with numerous spots fraying on the stairs and other locations.  The same tired old appliances in the kitchen.

Another unpleasant surprise was the little package of detergents/laundry soap left in the kitchen.  There was a small bottle of Palmolive, 2 small one load Tides, a 2 Snuggle sheet box, and ONE packet of dishwasher detergent. Further, there was a note on the package informing us that additional supplies could be had at $2.00/each from the deli.  So, that's $2.00 per load of dishess.  Eat out alot, or plan on handwashing or bringing Cascade from home. 

We NEVER got a call regarding attending an owner's update or I would surely have let them know about the outrageousness of this new policy.  One of the thing I loved about WSJ was never having to worry about bringing laundry detergent or dishwashing detergent.  

Other things contributed to this being a very disappointing stay at our home resort.  We were just there at Thanksgiving, and were looking forward to the 10th anniversary of our unit purchase.  Needless to say, I will be writing a letter of complaint, though I fear it will fall on deaf ears.

Lori


----------



## DavidnRobin

Damn them...
Sorry to hear. I believe if you do complain loudly and constructively to the right people at WSJ you might get resolve, but I am afraid since they did supply these items before - it is a an attempt at cost cutting measures (penny-wise - dollar-foolish) - some managment people just don't get it unfortunately

I agree - for WSJ it is especially important to have basics which are not generally sold on STJ in small quantities (laundry soap, dishwashing and diswasher soap, dryer sheets, salt, pepper, sugar) and was great during our last stay to have these item.

I will also write to be proactive.  Need to find my WSJ list...
firstname.lastname@starwoodvo.com
or
firstname.lastname@westin.com  (which a lot of WSJ folks have)


I will let Robin know what to expect (her Dept.), and luckily we are there for 2 weeks now - so I won't feel like I am wasting items that we are forced to buy when we leave (same with food items - we have a difficult time with that - and why I am too heavy...).  Generally - if we can - we will find someone to give them to since workers aren't allowed to take them.

What else happened?  I heard there were torrential downpours (but they had been having a drought so far).


----------



## islandguy

Just got back yesterday and the rain was not that bad.  Monday sea was a little choppy for snorkeling and the roads ok. The only bad thing it was an all day rain vs. last week that was 15 min and gone and more of a shower. 

Regarding the cleaning packets -- my wife went thru the roof when she saw the limited supplies.  The worst was the dishwasher soap -- that is unacceptable.  We complained during the owners update -- they said they knew about the issue.  Don't think the marketing folks like it but they don't control the policy. 

OBTY we wanted another week so we purchased another week at STJ -- we love it on STJ. 

DW is still on STT so she is enjoying the sun, water, and happy hours.  Oh well I had to get back to work.  Snorkeling is great this time of year. 

The AA line wasn't bad -- got to the airport 1.5 hrs prior to flight and turned the rental car in and was at the gate 45 min prior to flight.   Quite busy due to people returning from carnival.  That was a great time watching the parade.


----------



## DavidnRobin

islandguy said:


> Just got back yesterday and the rain was not that bad.  Monday sea was a little choppy for snorkeling and the roads ok. The only bad thing it was an all day rain vs. last week that was 15 min and gone and more of a shower.
> 
> Regarding the cleaning packets -- my wife went thru the roof when she saw the limited supplies.  The worst was the dishwasher soap -- that is unacceptable.  We complained during the owners update -- they said they knew about the issue.  Don't think the marketing folks like it but they don't control the policy.
> 
> OBTY we wanted another week so we purchased another week at STJ -- we love it on STJ.
> 
> DW is still on STT so she is enjoying the sun, water, and happy hours.  Oh well I had to get back to work.  Snorkeling is great this time of year.
> 
> The AA line wasn't bad -- got to the airport 1.5 hrs prior to flight and turned the rental car in and was at the gate 45 min prior to flight.   Quite busy due to people returning from carnival.  That was a great time watching the parade.



Thanks for the update - we leave in a few weeks.  I am digging out my SVO/WSJ contacts about this.  This is truly unwise (esp for STJ) since Owners pay a fortune in MFs that would make the $5/week cost of these materials (if handled properly) a non-issue and would keep Owners for a very minor cost that could pay-off in long run (other purchases for example).  We as Owners do not need brand new bottles of these items - I am happy to use the dishwashing soaps (for example) that have been left over - all they would need to supply is larger pacakge formats and then replenish) - esp true in a world today where waste is becoming costly both to the enviroment and to the pocketbook.

What did you buy at the WSJ?  From SVO?  If so - what are the offering now-a-days?
{don't worry - no resale harassment - if anywhere - buying WSJ form SVO can make sense sometime}

We bought another week resale - because 1 week was way too short.


----------



## DavidnRobin

btw - for those reading this thread - please contact SVO/WSJ about this issue if it is important to you.  From Robin's response last night - I can assume many others will be peeved by this news.

I have started, but there is support in numbers...


----------



## DavidnRobin

islandguy said:


> The AA line wasn't bad -- got to the airport 1.5 hrs prior to flight and turned the rental car in and was at the gate 45 min prior to flight.   Quite busy due to people returning from carnival.  That was a great time watching the parade.



There was an article on 'News of St John' that AA Corp responded that this was not their policy - it looks as if STT AA went renegade on this.  Having been denied boarding last year by AA so they could get their $15/bag - I plan to arrive way early - and flying Delta...

http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do...checkingIn/arrivalTimes.jsp&anchorEvent=false
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm


----------



## DavidnRobin

*The L’Esperance Trail Video*

The L’Esperance Trail Video on 'On-StJohn'

http://www.on-stjohn.com/

{no direct link, but currently at top of page}


----------



## OCsun

*We just returned from St. John too!*



Loriannf said:


> Our unit, 4210, has yet to be refurbished.  It was, seemingly, freshly painted, but the carpet (the blue-green wavy one installed about 3 years ago) is showing heavy wear with numerous spots fraying on the stairs and other locations.  The same tired old appliances in the kitchen.
> 
> Another unpleasant surprise was the little package of detergents/laundry soap left in the kitchen.  There was a small bottle of Palmolive, 2 small one load Tides, a 2 Snuggle sheet box, and ONE packet of dishwasher detergent. Further, there was a note on the package informing us that additional supplies could be had at $2.00/each from the deli.  So, that's $2.00 per load of dishess.  Eat out alot, or plan on handwashing or bringing Cascade from home.
> 
> We NEVER got a call regarding attending an owner's update or I would surely have let them know about the outrageousness of this new policy.  One of the thing I loved about WSJ was never having to worry about bringing laundry detergent or dishwashing detergent.
> 
> Other things contributed to this being a very disappointing stay at our home resort.  We were just there at Thanksgiving, and were looking forward to the 10th anniversary of our unit purchase.  Needless to say, I will be writing a letter of complaint, though I fear it will fall on deaf ears.
> 
> Lori



Lori, 
Sorry to hear your unit was not yet updated.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that our unit 4111, was updated with new carpet, new living room, dinning room and bedroom furniture.  They replaced all the lamps, pictures, dinning room light fixture and new flat screen TV's in each bedroom and living room.   We still had the same tired kitchen appliances but I guess they will be replaced when they update the kitchens and bathrooms.

I voiced my concern regarding the new small supply of kitchen items and got the same response as everyone else.  If they would have somehow sent us an email regarding this change in policy, I would have bought additional supplies at the store on St. Thomas.  We make a stop at the Food Center in Red Hook before taking the car ferry to St. John since supplies are less expensive on St. Thomas.  Since we were spending week two on St. Thomas I just went out and bought the cheapest products they had at the Starfish Market.

The weather and snorkeling during week 16 were awesome.  We stayed at the Marriott Frenchman's Cove week 17, and the weather did have occasional showers.  We happened to take the car ferry back to St. John on Monday so our grandchildren could go to Maho Bay, and the water was so choppy I could not wait to get off the car ferry.  Maho is so protected that we were able to still snorkel. 

The Frenchman's Cove was very nice and my grandchildren enjoyed the kids activities but we kept saying, *it's just not St. John *- if you know what I mean.     Pam


----------



## islandguy

DavidnRobin said:


> What did you buy at the WSJ?  From SVO?  If so - what are the offering now-a-days?
> {don't worry - no resale harassment - if anywhere - buying WSJ form SVO can make sense sometime}



We bought 1 week from SVO got 50,000 hotel points a bonus.  It is a studio. Now I can do 2 weeks at a time.  

I have been lucky to get extra weeks at STJ, just not always able to do 2 weeks at a time.  I'm going over labor day for a week in the 3 Bedroom.  Don't like it that I will not know if it is in the houses or the condos.  Reservation asked for the house but they will only tell me when I arrive.  Oh well at least I'm in paradise.  Also got air for $325 from DCA to STT.  Will pay more for my car than air.


----------



## DeniseM

islandguy said:


> Don't like it that I will not know if it is in the houses or the condos.  Reservation asked for the house but they will only tell me when I arrive.



Houses at WSJ?


----------



## tlpnet

DavidnRobin said:


> There was an article on 'News of St John' that AA Corp responded that this was not their policy - it looks as if STT AA went renegade on this. Having been denied boarding last year by AA so they could get their $15/bag - I plan to arrive way early - and flying Delta...
> 
> http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do...checkingIn/arrivalTimes.jsp&anchorEvent=false
> http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm


 
I read the release when it was still posted. It was clear to me that it was the American Eagle contracted carrier and not AA. I'm glad to see that American responded to it. Now if they would just do something about the contracted carrier (like fire everyone, and get new friendly, helpful, efficient staff).

-tim


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> Houses at WSJ?



I believe islandguy meant the 'house' as the pool villas versus the 'condo' as the BV phase (as the pool villas are like townhouses, not to be confused with our 2Bd which is classified as a townhouse, but just a 2-story condo...)

Islandguy - not to rag on you - but why buy a studio from SVO? Which can only be in the Virgin Grand phase (Hillside - Mandatory) - when they can be had cheaply on the resale market - certainly not worth the 50K incentive SPs (no matter what kind of fuzzy math is used) and certainly not worth the SO-SO conversion (again, no matter what math is used).  You have been on TUG for a while - so I am curious as to why you choose this route.

I assume that you bought a fixed week - since that is how they are deeded (even though they can float, but difficult to perform form experiences here) - which unit, which week - and if you do not mind - what is SVO selling them for?

We love STJ also - and bought a 2nd week to match our 1st, but we bought from the Owners that owned the adjacent week since the check-in day is also fixed - so we have 2weeks consectutively (Fri-Fri)


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Plume, Plume go away...*

... come back some other day.
http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17635642

well... at least be gone 4 weeks from now...

I was in an algae plume in 1997 (El Nino year) while sailing the Grenadines - outside of Union Island (Tabago Cays) and the plume was so strong the water in entire cay (inside Horseshoe reef) was solid green (water temp was >90F) - with small jelly fish afterwards


----------



## Loriannf

*Another TS Salesman's "story"*

While we were out on our snorkel trip last week, we met another couple who had just purchased a studio.  I think I talked them into rescinding (they own WKORV, and had rented after unsuccessfully trying to get WSJ for 5 years).  Anyway, when they were being driven up to the studios, they asked the TS salesman what the buildings were there on the left.  They were told they were "apartments".  When the female half of the couple tried to ask if they were the pool villas, she was told no.  I spoke with the couple to make sure they weren't referring to the units behind the deli, but sure enough, they were referring to the Pool villas.

I also spoke with a couple who traded in a studio and a 2 bedroom loft for two 3 bedroom EOY pool villas (week 48).  They wouldn't tell me how much they paid, but felt that SVO "had been fair."

I referred both to TUG for further reading.

Lori


----------



## DavidnRobin

Loriannf said:


> I referred both to TUG for further reading.
> Lori



I refer people to TUG often while at our resorts - hopefully, if anything, to just get involved.  I think most would just rather vacation w/o thinking about it (esp at WSJ) - these are the folks that TS salespeople love.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*yet, another reason to visit STJ...*

http://singha.lonelyplanet.com/bars/?city=St John, USVI

or this one...

http://singha.lonelyplanet.com/

4 of the top 10 bars in the world (according to Lonely Planet)

they are changing, but lists...
Woody’s, Quiet Mon, Beach Bar, Skinny Legs, Soggy Dollar, Willie-T and Foxy’s.


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> http://singha.lonelyplanet.com/bars/?sort=rank&city=St John, USVI
> 
> 7 of the top 20 bars in the world (according to Lonely Planet)





Going to be there 7 days, and there are 7 top 20 bars....coincidence? hmmmmm


----------



## James1975NY

tomandrobin said:


> Going to be there 7 days, and there are 7 top 20 bars....coincidence? hmmmmm



Well, I can say that I have been to the Beach Bar and Woody's but I do no remember the others....not to say I wasn't there :hysterical:


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> Going to be there 7 days, and there are 7 top 20 bars....coincidence? hmmmmm



Now 10 of top 20 are in Virgin Is (USVI and BVI) and Woody's is listed 2x in top 10.

I thought you were going to WSJ when we would be there? (weeks 23-24)


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Now 10 of top 20 are in Virgin Is (USVI and BVI) and Woody's is listed 2x in top 10.
> 
> I thought you were going to WSJ when we would be there? (weeks 23-24)



June 12-19.....Our herd of 13!

I know we are hitting at least 3 of them for sure! 

Going to be booking our Bad Kitty trip to The Bath, this week for June 13.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Property Taxes for 2006*

Supposedly - 2006 Property Tax bills will be mailed July 1st and due July 31st.

links:
http://www.onepaper.com/stjohnvi/?v=d&i=&s=News:Local&p=1223618516
http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17635766

With 2007 Property Tax bills to be mailed in August. {?}

I say supposedly - because this has been blocked by courts before... and the court cases and appeals have not been finalized.


----------



## applekor

DavidnRobin said:


> Supposedly - 2006 Property Tax bills will be mailed July 1st and due July 31st.
> 
> links:
> http://www.onepaper.com/stjohnvi/?v=d&i=&s=News:Local&p=1223618516
> http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17635766
> 
> With 2007 Property Tax bills to be mailed in August. {?}
> 
> I say supposedly - because this has been blocked by courts before... and the court cases and appeals have not been finalized.



David-   Do you know if these bills will be w/ the new assessments and if they are  how much are the bills going up.  It's kind of scary we havn't payed property taxes since '05--Tom


----------



## DavidnRobin

They are billed separately from MFs - they are tied to assessement of property value. The WSJ tax bills that were attempted to be sent out last year had a increase of ~100% since STJ is taking the brunt of the taxes - and TS owners also... so the double whammy... (taxation w/o representation... I recall hearing that there was a revolution over this once...)


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Property Tax Info*

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17636185


----------



## DavidnRobin

*STJ Blog by Gerald Singer (author)*

http://seestjohn.com/st_john_life/


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Interview w/ Glen Speer Re: Mongoose Junction*

...and his secret garden
{worth watching IMO}

http://www.on-stjohn.com/


----------



## DavidnRobin

*New Western Hemisphere Travel Rules*

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17636354


----------



## olivias dad

less than 3 months to go, im excited, first time using timeshare at WSJ with family cant wait....


----------



## jerseygirl

Just returned from a wonderful week.  

Biggest news (not sure if this has been reported) -- there's a GREAT new grocery store that's about a 4-minute walk from the pool villas.  :whoopie: 

Favorite day -- Jost Van Dyke/Soggy Dollar


----------



## olivias dad

one of DavenRobin links I believe shows new pics of the new market accross from the Westin.  Sounds very convenient .  We are already planning a day trip to Jost the Sunday we get there, love the Soggy Dollar Bar.


----------



## tomandrobin

jerseygirl said:


> Just returned from a wonderful week.
> 
> Biggest news (not sure if this has been reported) -- there's a GREAT new grocery store that's about a 4-minute walk from the pool villas.  :whoopie:
> 
> Favorite day -- Jost Van Dyke/Soggy Dollar



What is the name of the store? Is it towards town and do the sell Adult beverages?

Did you do a Jost Van Dyke charter?


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> What is the name of the store? Is it towards town and do the sell Adult beverages?
> 
> Did you do a Jost Van Dyke charter?



It is called the St John Market and right next to the Westin (towards town) - can't mis it.
Yes - it does sell alcohol.


----------



## jerseygirl

tomandrobin said:


> What is the name of the store? Is it towards town and do the sell Adult beverages?



We were told by one of the managers at the Westin that is is owned by the same people who own the Dolphin market in town.  I never a saw a name but I'm sure David is correct.  They were literally still stocking it all week -- the refrigerated coolers were not working for meat, but just about everything else was in stock, including adult beverages.  It was very clean and well organized -- my only complaint would be that there were no prices posted anywhere so it was a guessing game (e.g., this is $3 in the US so it will be about $9 here!).

And, yes, it was toward town (left out of the main Westin drive, right out of the pool and hillside villas) and JUST around the first bend.  There was a path from the back/side of the pool villas, so we didn't have to go up to the main drive.  Literally a 3-4 minute walk at most.




> Did you do a Jost Van Dyke charter?



Yes.  Last year, one member of our party forgot her passport, so we had to stay on the US side.  This year, we were all "in the clear" and able to hit the BVIs.  I loved White Bay ... considering getting on the list to stay for a week at the Sandcastle.  I'm guessing my blackberry wouldn't work and there would be no internet access ... what a shame for work purposes  .


----------



## DavidnRobin

St John Market - is owned by same Owners as Dolphin market - does not accept discounts for Dolphin market.

Be careful about using phone/internet access in the BVI unless you like getting charged as you were calling from a different country.  Even in STJ you need to worry about accessing thru Tortola (or so I have been told).

Be aware of the new passport rules that have just taken effect - to make it easy on yourself (and others) - bring a passport even when just coming to the USVI - although not required - they will certainly give you more scrutiny if you do not have one.

we are packed and ready to go - of course we still have to much stuff, but going for 2 weeks this time.  I am going to be relaxed, sunburnt, bug-bitten, and need liver detox when we get back - but it is all good.  Not sure yet if I will be bringing my laptop - if I do - will send updates.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*June - USVI Cruise ship schedules*

http://www.vinow.com/general_usvi/cruiseship/ship_schedule.php

{purely selfish reasons}
Tuesday 06/02/09
   Explorer of the Seas WICO, St. Thomas

Wednesday 06/03/09
   Freedom of the Seas WICO, St. Thomas

Saturday 06/06/09
   Adventure of the Seas WICO, St. Thomas

Sunday 06/07/09
   Caribbean Princess CB, St. Thomas

Monday 06/08/09
   Carnival Victory WICO, St. Thomas
   Grandeur of the Seas WICO, St. Thomas

Tuesday 06/09/09
   Carnival Glory WICO, St. Thomas
   Liberty WICO, St. Thomas

Wednesday 06/10/09
   Disney Magic WICO, St. Thomas

Saturday 06/13/09
   Adventure of the Seas St. Croix

Monday 06/15/09
   Carnival Victory WICO, St. Thomas

Tuesday 06/16/09
   Caribbean Princess CB, St. Thomas
   Explorer of the Seas WICO, St. Thomas

Wednesday 06/17/09
   Freedom of the Seas WICO, St. Thomas

Saturday 06/20/09
   Adventure of the Seas WICO, St. Thomas

Sunday 06/21/09
   Carnival Miracle WICO, St. Thomas

Monday 06/22/09
   Carnival Victory WICO, St. Thomas

Tuesday 06/23/09
   Carnival Freedom WICO, St. Thomas
   Carnival Glory WICO, St. Thomas
   Liberty WICO, St. Thomas

Wednesday 06/24/09
   Disney Magic WICO, St. Thomas

Thursday 06/25/09
   Caribbean Princess CB, St. Thomas

Saturday 06/27/09
   Adventure of the Seas St. Croix

Monday 06/29/09
   Carnival Miracle WICO, St. Thomas
   Carnival Victory WICO, St. Thomas

Tuesday 06/30/09
   Explorer of the Seas WICO, St. Thomas


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Another Virgin Island Travel Forum*

in case I haven't posted this link - this forum seems to have taken off and more active than VINOW.com

http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

and a map of hiking trials at
http://www.trailbandit.org/maps.htm


----------



## DavidnRobin

Of we go to STJ/WSJ in a few hours - if I bring my computer I will post in somewhat real-time this trip... see ya!


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Of we go to STJ/WSJ in a few hours - if I bring my computer I will post in somewhat real-time this trip... see ya!



See you next Friday....have a great trip!


----------



## pointsjunkie

i hope you have a great time and i hope you bring your computer because you tell the greatest stories of your adventures. this year stay healthy.

Barbra


----------



## DavidnRobin

Thanks - brought 2 packs of Tamiflu (one good thing of working for Roche now...) and a Z-pac - started  different thread for trip - and will link here later.

just lost internet connection (ethernet) telling WLR person to rescind - found a B32 wireless connection that wasn't there last nite. later


----------



## Loriannf

*2006 Tax bill arrived*

For those of you WSJ folks, our 2006 tax bill arrived for one of our 3 bedroom pool villas:  $334.87.  Last one was about $220.  Don't worry though, "We will file a Protective Protest on behalf of owners by August 14, 2009", says SVO.  

You should still pay your bill regardless of on-going litigation.  Any refund due because of later changes "will more than likely be credited against future taxes (i.e. 2007)."

So let's all salute SVO for their proactive stance on behalf of owners.  Guess the resulting legal bills will ensure that we no longer get any dishwasher detergent, laundry detergent, etc. in our villas unless we bring our own or pay $2.00 per load.

Lori


----------



## DavidnRobin

...mine will probably get sent to my street address, but in North Carolina.  The Gov here just refused to sign the constitution ....


----------



## DavidnRobin

Loriannf said:


> Guess the resulting legal bills will ensure that we no longer get any dishwasher detergent, laundry detergent, etc. in our villas unless we bring our own or pay $2.00 per load.



_"Been Caught Stealin'" Janes Addiction_


----------



## DeniseM

*USVI - Court of appeals rules against property tax*

Posted on another forum - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=741141#post741141


----------



## OCsun

*FYI regarding WSJ 2006 Tax Bills*

_*A recording which came across my phone just now was quite fast, so forgive me if I do not have the correct legal terms*._The call was from Starwood regarding another court action putting the 2006 tax bills on hold.  Due to an injunction, the 2006 tax bills should not have been mailed.  Starwood was advising timeshare owners to hold off  paying their bills.
Since I pay everything the day it comes in the mail, I paid my bill yesterday.  Starwood Management informed me that, if the tax bill is lowered, a credit would be applied to my tax account.  Pam


----------



## DavidnRobin

just back from STJ - so catching up.

it was reported here on TUG (and reported in USVI news - sites linked in WSJ Thread) - that the property tax bills were deemed invalid.

The tax bill was forwarded by SVO - and came with a letter of explanation - taxes are billed and paid to the USVI Gov't (and not SVO/WSJ) - SVO is supplying this info (call and letter) as a courtesy since as a property owner it is upon the owner to know the standing of property taxes 

I got home and received a voicemail from SVO (and they mentioned ARDA...).


----------



## DavidnRobin

Two recent WSJ/STJ trip reports -

From DavidnRobin:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99223

From Tomandrobin:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100331

both threads have great photos


----------



## DavidnRobin

win a trip to WSJ

http://www.indagare.com/sweepstakes/family_iq

i missed 2 questions...


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Property Tax Update*

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17637345


----------



## DavidnRobin

this has to be an all-time BS eBay WSJ auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280366360594


----------



## Transit

DavidnRobin said:


> this has to be an all-time BS eBay WSJ auction...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280366360594



David ,it's in June ,you could do 3 weeks


----------



## blackfly

DavidnRobin said:


> this has to be an all-time BS eBay WSJ auction...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280366360594


Did you happen to notice the seller's other items? A "Vintage Patek Philippe moon watch, 18k, all gold." Asking price... $18k. Gimme a break.


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> this has to be an all-time BS eBay WSJ auction...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280366360594



:hysterical:

Perhaps you should make an offer... $10 anyone?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Car Barge STT-STJ*

For those planning on taking the car barge between St Thomas and St John - please be aware that they are down to 1 barge and the wait is very long (and very hot) - this was reported on 'On St John' 
http://www.on-stjohn.com/


----------



## DavidnRobin

poor TS developers finally get a break...lol
http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17637547


----------



## LisaH

DavidnRobin said:


> For those planning on taking the car barge between St Thomas and St John - please be aware that they are down to 1 barge and the wait is very long (and very hot) - this was reported on 'On St John'
> http://www.on-stjohn.com/


I hope this won't last long. We'll be there in Nov and hope it will be back to three barges...


----------



## DavidnRobin

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17637781


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaH said:


> I hope this won't last long. We'll be there in Nov and hope it will be back to three barges...



The USVI just got stimulus money for ferries - so that may help with the public ferries eventually (after all the corrupt USVI officials line their pockets).


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Cheeseburger Thieving Seagulls at Trunk Bay*

For those of you that have been robbed by the seagulls at Trunk Bay - the NPS has come up with an interesting solution.  The seagulls at Trunk Bay were even more aggressive this year than last year.

2nd video down...
http://www.on-stjohn.com/


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Refurbish Info for WSJ (Hillside-Virgin Grand)*

Discover the latest news about your resort’s refurbishments.

Dear DAVID,

Exciting new enhancements are now underway in the Virgin Grand 
Villas phase at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. 

We are pleased to announce that refurbishments are underway and the 
refurbishment schedule, as approved by the Board, now indicates an 
earlier date of completion. The original plan projected a 
completion date of fall 2010. Based on the current schedule, the 
majority of the refurbishments will be completed this year, with 
completion of the last building anticipated for the first quarter 
of 2010.

As a reminder, if you own a deeded villa that is undergoing 
refurbishments during your vacation week, the resort staff will 
arrange for you to be placed in a different villa that may or may 
not be in your ownership phase, but will accomodate the same number 
if guests as your deeded villa.

For your convenience, all resort amenities will be available while 
renovations are underway. Rest assured, the staff at The Westin St. 
John Resort & Villas is dedicated to providing you relaxing and 
memorable vacation experiences during this refurbishment period. 

We look forward to providing regular updates regarding the 
refurbishments.


----------



## DavidnRobin

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/index.shtml?

why owning WSJ during these months has its challenges


----------



## DavidnRobin

sounds like something worth checking it...
http://www.viecotours.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=54


----------



## olivias dad

Leaving tomorrow, hopefully weather is clear from here...


----------



## DavidnRobin

sounds like it will be - enjoy - go slow - have a bushwacker at Woodys during happy hour after a day snorkling - and think of us


----------



## olivias dad

Writing this post from bedside while wife and daughter sleep.  Last night at the WSJ, heading home tomorrow.  Week was fantastic, hurricane Bill was no factor and weather was great.  Will post some photos within the next couple of days.


----------



## tomandrobin

olivias dad said:


> Writing this post from bedside while wife and daughter sleep.  Last night at the WSJ, heading home tomorrow.  Week was fantastic, hurricane Bill was no factor and weather was great.  Will post some photos within the next couple of days.



Looking forward to your pictures and comments.


----------



## gravitar

My wife and I are heading there on the 4th, one week from today!!

Cant wait


----------



## olivias dad

Ok, just woke up and need to head to D&D for a coffee.  Hopefully will have some pictures posted in the next couple of days (I leave that up to my wife).  I will say that the weather was fantastic, only the typical brief showers here and there.  We stayed in the uppermost Hillside Villa (Building 34).  The entired building on the side of us (33) was completely being renovated, no guests.

As most of you know, they are gutting out the kitchens and bathrooms and building 34 is next.  It was actually nice since we pretty much had the pool to ourselves.  On another note, I really think the villa's should be gated.  All security does is wave to you when you drive by, nice but little confidence of security.  We saw this one night as a non-owning couple litterally took the fencing used for the building 33 renovations and blocked off the private pool.  When I walked around the fencing, the couple left leaving their trash behind.

Other than that little gripe, it was tough to complain. Will provide a more detailed report as well in a bit, need to dig out.

:zzz:


----------



## olivias dad

Trip Recap and pics:

Day 1 - Had a quick bite at Tickles at the St. Thomas dock while waiting for the Ferry.  Didn't do much, since we didn't arrive to St. John until 6pm.  Went to the new St. John market, picked up some (pricey) groceries and after unpacking went in the villa pool (our 16 month old was dead tired by this point).

Day 2 - Picked up our truck rental at O'Connor's (on the property) then did a "real" grocery shopping at Star Fish market, picked up some steaks and Virgin Island Mango Ale to grill, then headed to the beach and pool at the Westin for the day.  Grilled the steaks and stayed at our pool later that night.

Day 3 - Took a shuttle down to Cruz Bay and took the ferry to Jost Van Dyke and hung out at the Soggy Dollar Bar at White Bay for the majority of the day.

Day 4 - Hung out mostly at the Westin again, the went to Mongoose Junction for some beers, met Tim and Kevin at the Tap Room and bought some merchandise.  That night as part of the owners update, we went to the BBQ Beach Jam where there was entertainment.

Day 5 - Went to Trunk Bay for the day then later, my parents stayed with my daughter at the villa and my wife and I went to Asolare for a sunset dinner.

Day 6 - Took the truck downtown, did some shopping in the morning, then did some driving to the other side of the island (Coral Bay), took some pictures at Chateaux Bordeau, then continued on to Skinny Legs and took a drive to find where Sweet Plantains was located.  Drove back downtown (Cruz Bay), picked up some Uncle Joes BBQ (the best btw) then hung out at the Westin pool.  My parents did dinner at ZoZo's that night.

Day 7 - Our last full day here we went to Hawksnest, which in my opinion was refreshing, not as many people, and a better beach to walk into for my daughter than Trunk.  Later that night the whole family ate dinner at Morgan's Mango downtown.

Day 8 - Took the 11:15AM ferry back to St. Thomas and headed to the aiport only to arrive back in Boston at 12:50AM greeted by Tropical Depression Danny and heavy rains...boo!

Below I have posted some pics of our trip (most of my daughter, she's cuter!)


----------



## olivias dad




----------



## islandguy

Just got back from another great trip to WSJ.  Left on 4 Sep and returned last night (12 Sep).

Stayed in a 3 Bdr Bay Vista Condo in bldg 24. While I own here I traded within SPG for this trip.  My second trip this year.  Bay Vista was very nice and the resort staff was great in all respects.  Tremendous service.  

Extended my stay by one night in the hotel/resort rooms.  Stayed on SPG hotel points for the one night.  Was in bld 16 with an ocean front room.  The hotel stay I was charged a $ 40.00 resort fee.  Last time I stayed on points they waived the resort fee -- not this trip. 

Once again I rented a car at the airport and took the car ferry over. Very easy way to go. Note:  Avis doesn't have a line for perfered service like they used to -- so waited with 4 or 5 folks to get my keys.  Oh well island time started early.  The gal at the resort desk at the STT airport told me the car ferry was not running.  It was the day after Erika and the storm remnant was still around -- just rain.  So I took the rental car to Red Hook and thought I would leave it there and take the passenger ferry if the car ferry wasn't running then come back the next day to pick it up. I remembered reading that morining the Caribbean Hurricane Network web site said the harbor master gave the go ahead for all ferries to run in STT and STJ.  Lo and behold when I got to Red Hook the car ferry was running and the staff said they were running all day.  So it all worked out.  $50 RT on the car ferry for car and passengers.

The desk clerk in STJ Westin told me they called the day before and they were told that they wouldn't be running.  I caught the 5:30 PM ferry -- and Westin checked 6 PM the day before.  Bottom line don't count on correct ferry information from Westin agents. 

Food -- number 2 reason to go to STJ was very good even with many closures due to low season.  Best meal we had was at Morgan Mango (Lobster stuffed with Crab) was the best I've had in the Caribbean.  Rub Lines had great tuna ahi and tremendous appetizers.  Chloe and Bernard's had half price appetizers and they were the best on the island.  If you haven't eaten at Chloe you have missed a great meal.  One dissapointment in food was Paradiso -- just average food -- not worth the time or money.  Bar mixed drinks at Wesitn were average -- got much better island type drinks in town.  We brought some food with us for the barbecue and the microware (remember no oven just a microwave-which has a oven setting and stove top).  The grills in the back of bay vista are OK but not as nice as the ones in the condos up the hill.  Westin needs to work on the grills in Bay Vista -- average at best.  Maybe someone from Hawaii can show them how to do the grills.  Some residents said they stopped working later in week and they we not fixed. 

Beach Time/Snorkle  --  Spent most of the time at Hawksnest.  Wonderful coral and sealife.  Saw a sand shark, turtle, sing ray and assorted small and large fish.  Saw a local snorkle lady go down and pet the shark.  Took some newcomers in our party to Trunk Bay and they enjoyed the park and beach but I don't like to pay the $4 each for snorkling when all the other beaches are free, plus I don't use the facilities there.  Oh well the DW said everybody has to say they have been to Trunk. Spend lazy afternooons in the Westin Great Cruz Bay and pool to unwind after returning from the beach.  Very relaxing week.  Water warm and very clear (yes even Great Cruz Bay was clear -- however, not as clear as the north shore beaches).  Note:  Only rained the 1st day and all other days clear and warm-hot and humid. 

Return: US Air flight was different -- less the half full and we pushed back 35 min before schedule departure-- doors closed 40 min prior.  Could it be that everybody showed up early?  Walked thru US customs in STT -- no one in line.  Flight was at schedlue to leave at 5PM yesterday.    

STJ is just heaven on earth. Planning another trip in a few months if I can get a reservation.


----------



## tlpnet

I was just poking around MSC looking for the ferry reservation page in anticipation of heading to St. John next week, and came across this renovation schedule. I don't remember seeing it posted before.

-tim


----------



## OCsun

The pictures in the renovation schedule are not titled correctly.  The picture listed as the three bedroom is actually the two bedroom.  The three bedroom pool villas do not have the laundry located next to the kitchen and they have windows which open to the outside courtyard.  

They do look awesome - I can't wait to see the finished product.  Pam


----------



## tlpnet

Yeah, I noticed that as well, but was much more interested in the fact that the renovations seem to be a little ahead of schedule as of this month.

-tim


----------



## DavidnRobin

as a large part of the 3 year special assessment (~50% of MFs) - the roofs and sidings were supposed to be replaced - what is the schedule of that...?


----------



## Carolyn

We will be leaving on Nov. 7th.  We own a 1 BR Premium (3424) and was told it would not be available due to renovations.  I originally requested Bay Vista but have been in contact with Carolyn Nunes.  Knowing that we would really like a water view, like we have in 3424, she offered us 3327 as I was assured all the renovations were done in Bldg. 33 (not sure about the roof).  I will see what I can find out when we are there. Any WSJ 3327 owners out there?

Carolyn


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## DavidnRobin

Let us know about the roofs and sidings - this was a major part of the SA.
Enjoy your trip - we may end up going to WSJ in 2010 after all (hopefully)


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## Carolyn

DavidnRobin said:


> Let us know about the roofs and sidings - this was a major part of the SA.
> Enjoy your trip - we may end up going to WSJ in 2010 after all (hopefully)



Will do.

Carolyn


----------



## keepgoing

*Westin St John 3bd hilllside Week of July going price*

Can someone provide a fair market price for a 3bd villa hillside section for a week in early Aug (purchase price)?  There are not much of sales history for st john, especially 3 bd one.  I was offered by a seller but don't know a fair market value since ebay does not have tons of them to reference.  I own some other starwood resort in Haiwaii but never can get anything in St John in Summer even booking at 8 months mark at 9am. My kids are still small (3 years old the youngest old), so I have to stick with summer holiday for quite a while.

Thanks in advance.

Chun


----------



## DavidnRobin

IMO-IMO-IMO
Fair Value
$35-40K

also - there are 2 types of 3Bd Hillside villas (one has a moving wall between two of the Bedrooms)

be aware that these are fixed villa and fixed week (incl checkin day) villas 
- and that property taxes have not been billed since 2005 (so owed for 2006 on - at some point - prepare for them to double when they are billed)


----------



## keepgoing

*Fair market price for 3bd room hill side- Early Aug week*

David,

The unit is 4210.  The the seller said he would credit me the owed taxed in the formular of .014070 x Seller’s aggregate 2006 Notice of Revaluation since he can't tell exactly what it is if the government have not sent the bill.  So they have unit with sliding wall and fixed wall?

Honestly, I like fixed unit/fixed week. So there is no begging for other type of units I wanted during reservation.  Fixed week is great for me when I don't have much flexibility.  

I do see one and only one ebay ad now for 3 bdrm with 5 bids around 15K.  let see how high it will shoot up in the last min before closing.

Thanks again for your valuable opinion.
Chun


----------



## Loriannf

*We own a week 17 4210*

So if you have any specific questions about the unit, please feel free to email me.

It does have a sliding wall between the upstairs bedrooms.  Also, it is the unit closest to the parking in that particular building.

Lori


----------



## Loriannf

*WOW!  WSJ Maintenance Fees Climb!!*

Moderators:

Feel free to merge into the WSJ thread, but to get the topic noticed, I started a new thread.

Just received our notice of the BOD meeting.  Curious item on agenda - Revision of Due Dates for 2010 Dues and Taxes.

Also, the meeting is being held in November; in the past they've been in April.

The maintenance fees for the various units are as follows:

Studio:  $1,200.46/ replacement reserve $519.07 total $1719.53
Townhouse Suite:  $1600.76 mf/ repl. rsv. $692.12 total $2292.79
2 bedroom Townhouse:  $2000.88 mf/ rr $865.17 total $2866.05
2 bed Premium Unit:  $2400.92 mf/ rr1,038.15 total  $3,439.07
3 bedroom Pool/Premium Unit:  $2,401.92 mf/ rr $1038.22 total $3,439.31

Ok, now I think my husband's right and we need to sell one of our weeks.  Last year, our maintenance fees for the 2 3 bedroom pool units were about $6,000 including the special assessment.   This year it looks as if our maintenance fees have gone up $500/wk/unit.  And they've been cutting services.  All I can say is that the Replacement Reserve fee better'd be the same thing as the Special Assessment.  By calling it a Replacement Reserve fee, I'm afraid they're making the 3 year special assessment permanent.

Lori


----------



## keepgoing

*MF hike goes across the board in Westin*

Lori,
MF hike is pretty much across the Westin resort.  One good aspect for St John owner is that the resale price is not sliding down as fast as other, such as those in Maui.  But this increase probably is not helping it.  May be the seller would take my offer because of this huge increase in MF for his St John 3 bd.  

Chun


----------



## keepgoing

*Would it be harder to get St John from SVN after MF increase?*

Is it logical to think that it would be even harder to get SVN exchange into St John after the increase? The owner of St John would lose value in any exchange they get b/c of the high MF, so they would not give it up.


----------



## James1975NY

shopfordeal said:


> David,
> 
> The unit is 4210.  The the seller said he would credit me the owed taxed in the formular of .014070 x Seller’s aggregate 2006 Notice of Revaluation since he can't tell exactly what it is if the government have not sent the bill.  So they have unit with sliding wall and fixed wall?
> 
> Honestly, I like fixed unit/fixed week. So there is no begging for other type of units I wanted during reservation.  Fixed week is great for me when I don't have much flexibility.
> 
> I do see one and only one ebay ad now for 3 bdrm with 5 bids around 15K.  let see how high it will shoot up in the last min before closing.
> 
> Thanks again for your valuable opinion.
> Chun



I would agree that the fair price would be around the mid-30's. I do not have a lot of data to go on but my opinion is based on what I have sold in the studio, 1-bd and 2-bd villas. 

What week number is the e-bay ad for?


----------



## keepgoing

*the ebay one is unit 4113 week 26*

James, 
This is the only ebay ad with 3 bd still active and with 3 more day of bidding to go.  I could not find any completed auction from ebay for 3 bd.

Thanks,
Chun


----------



## DanCali

shopfordeal said:


> Is it logical to think that it would be even harder to get SVN exchange into St John after the increase? The owner of St John would lose value in any exchange they get b/c of the high MF, so they would not give it up.



Yes, it is logical that an exchange would be harder because owners are more likely to use or rent their week. On the other hand, this will lead to lower rental prices...


----------



## fillde

Wow is right. All inclusive resorts are probably less expensive.


----------



## keepgoing

*Can I use a closing agent like those recommend by TUG for St John Property?*

I purchased a couple TS using the closing agents recommended by TUG and everything get done fine.  Now I am getting a TS in Westin St John thru a realtor, they strongly suggest me to use an attorney on the island rather than those in the State. Of course the cost is about double and I still not able to get a clear estimate of the total cost (what is included, what's not, etc) from the island's attorney.  I don't want to commit into them, then given a surprise bill at the end.

I hope to get a 2nd opinion from here.

The realtor told me if I use a closing agent in the state: 1) The agent would not be provided the seller info because the seller is represented by the island attorney whom will take my info to do the closing?? (I was thinking if that is the case, then why I even need the same attorney to prepare the same thing for me?)  2) My agent need to do a tax clearance but the realtor told me that is responsibility of the seller's attorney to provide.  3) My agent also request the seller's deed but again, the realtor said the seller's attorney would handle the deed and not giving to my closing agent.

If they don't provide anything, how do a my closing company I choose do their work?  So far my commonsense telling me something is not right.

Please advise,
Thanks in advance.
Chun


----------



## DavidnRobin

shopfordeal said:


> I purchased a couple TS using the closing agents recommended by TUG and everything get done fine.  Now I am getting a TS in Westin St John thru a realtor, they strongly suggest me to use an attorney on the island rather than those in the State. Of course the cost is about double and I still not able to get a clear estimate of the total cost (what is included, what's not, etc) from the island's attorney.  I don't want to commit into them, then given a surprise bill at the end.
> 
> I hope to get a 2nd opinion from here.
> 
> The realtor told me if I use a closing agent in the state: 1) The agent would not be provided the seller info because the seller is represented by the island attorney whom will take my info to do the closing?? (I was thinking if that is the case, then why I even need the same attorney to prepare the same thing for me?)  2) My agent need to do a tax clearance but the realtor told me that is responsibility of the seller's attorney to provide.  3) My agent also request the seller's deed but again, the realtor said the seller's attorney would handle the deed and not giving to my closing agent.
> 
> If they don't provide anything, how do a my closing company I choose do their work?  So far my commonsense telling me something is not right.
> 
> Please advise,
> Thanks in advance.
> Chun



I used Tom Bolt (and Associates) on St Thomas, but I believe their rates went up.  I did contact JRA (TUG associates) and they can do it just as well - just choose Tom Bolt because I was doing the deed transfer directly with the Owner (wrote agreement myself).

My first week was done thru Rescort Closings - but I was forced too (eBay-Donate for a Cause- Tarpey Bros...) - it went fine.

I transferred Robin's name onto Title using a Tugger that passed away (warning - use a Company that has a back-up)

So the answer is that you can use a mainland title company - or on STT - just make sure the Title Co has closed USVI properties (has track record).

PS - do not forget about the Property Taxes.


----------



## LisaH

Jim Tarpey is an attorney. The company did a good job closing one of my timeshare purchases. They made a slight mistake on title and corrected in a very timely fashion with no additional cost to me.


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## DavidnRobin

LisaH said:


> Jim Tarpey is an attorney. The company did a good job closing one of my timeshare purchases. They made a slight mistake on title and corrected in a very timely fashion with no additional cost to me.



This was discussed in a thread in the Buying/Selling forum... Jim Tarpey may be an attorney, but is not licensed to practice law in Montana.  Jim says otherwise (he is 'advising'...), but the Montana State Board does not agree (it did cause him to change his association).

Given this - Resort Closing did a fine job for me also - however, I was unhappy to be forced to use RC - and the association with his brother on the Title Co end (and Donate for a Cause) bothered me - thus why I contacted Montana State Board since this was an eBay purchase with an very poor ad.


----------



## LisaH

Good to know (didn't see the other thread)!
My point is I will not go out of my way to use RC but if their price is fair, at least this is a reputable company...


----------



## tlpnet

I remember reading a thread about cellular service at HRA, but I don't remember seeing one for WSJ. I switched to AT&T earlier this year, and they "claim" they have service in USVI, and it is included in their domestic coverage. Has anyone used their AT&T cellphones in St. John (specifically at WSJ and in Cruz Bay - if I'm outside of those locations, I don't want to be bothered.)

Thanks!
-tim


----------



## applekor

At&t works well over in St Thomas.  In St John I can get a good signal Down By the Westin Beach area.  However,  over on the hiilside villas I cant get anything.


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## DavidnRobin

I have ATT and do not recall having a service problem at WSJ in our building (B34).  Plus - the WiFi worked great (when it was working).


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## jerseygirl

Wow -- that's cool if AT&T is free.   My brother is joining us for two weeks next year ... he has an i-phone, that's AT&T, right?

We pay $1.99/minute for Verizon.  We used to get Verizon service for $1.99 on most Caribbean cruises (worked almost everywhere).  Then, on a recent Carnival cruise, we found that they started a new "ship service" and suddently the price went way up.  What a ripoff -- it worked fine without the "ship service."  I turned my phone off in retaliation and just checked messages once a day.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Be careful with data roaming with ATT and the iPhone - I got screwed over by ATT even though I was being careful and tracking my usage (as recommended by them) - turns out that if you download email (even if unread) it does not register as data used - so it cannot be tracked.


----------



## jerseygirl

You've lost me David, but I'll show this to my brother -- I'm sure he'll understand.


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## DavidnRobin

There are essentially 3 ways to communicate with an iPhone: 1) phone/messaging, 2) WiFi, and 3) by a data connection (e.g. G3)

The data connection - is data roaming - which is generally unlimited locally using ATT by paying $30/month.  However, for International Data Roaming - they sell packages that allow for international data roaming (like they do for the phone service).

In my example - traveling in Europe - I wanted some data roaming capabilities since it is very useful (GPS, maps, etc.) - so I paid to have 20MB of international data roaming.  All is good - followed their instructions and reset my data usage on the iPhone (so I could track it) and did the other things (turn off location services and data roaming) they recommended until they are needed.  All is good.... right...

Tracked my usage - used my 20MB - got my bill and they said I used 50MB (additional cost of $170).  I called ATT and said that I tracked and my phone registered 20MB - and then they told me that the phone does not capture data usage for email that is downloaded (whether or not it is read).  I told them that if the iPhone doesn't account for this data - what use is it to track since it is not registered - and I was never informed of this. ATT credited my with 50%, but I am out of luck otherwise. Although - I may (if I get the time to be on hold) try and fight this further.  I should consider myself lucky - I have heard reports that some people have returned owing $1000s.

Nice business - no way of really tracking or controlling the amount of data that comes thru the phone - and therefore the user is blind to the actual data usage and therefore cost.


----------



## jerseygirl

Oh -- I get it.  Thanks.  Those are outrageous rates.  I've used my Blackberry (way too much, according to my family) in Europe, China, Caribbean, etc. and the bill was generally just a $100 more or so after an overseas vacation.  Corporate AT&T rates, but still.  

Appreciate the warning.  I'll let my brother know -- he is definitely an I-phone addict.  I set my personal email to come into my LG Dare automatically and turned it off within 3 days.  It drove me nuts -- and seemed to suck the battery life by always searching for emails.  

I guess I'm just someone who likes to compartmentalize:  Cell Phone for phone calls ... Blackberry for work email (and backup phone only when necessary -- never give anyone the number!) ...   Laptop for personal email and internet surfing ....


----------



## tlpnet

David wanted to use the international data, and subscribed to an international plan to allow for it.  The fact that AT&T's system didn't track the data usage correctly doesn't suprise me, but is screwed up (but not atypical of AT&T).

In fringe areas (St John) where you are near international territory (BVI), the iPhone has a setting that prevents you from "accidentally" using international roaming.  Your brother would want to make sure that his iPhone has automatic international roaming turned off to prevent data roaming charges should you get "too close" to BVI.

One cool thing about the iPhone is that its WiFi will work with Westin's authentication system which some other "data" phones will not.

Thanks for confirming that I can get at least some service there.  I leave tomorrow night, and may have trouble sleeping tonight as the excitement builds.  This is a vacation I "need"!

David - I'll check on your roof.   

-tim


----------



## DavidnRobin

Thanks - Please do - ask about the siding and roof as part of the large SA it better be dealt with.  Also - why the base MF went up 25% and if because of non-payment of MFs - then how do the Owners get that back when paid or villa taken back by WSJ.

The iPhone is fantastic for travelling (e.g.checking on tsunami warning at Tunnels Beach in Kauai) - just will not use internationally for data roaming - but bottom-line that the user gets no measure of data used for emails - just send a blank check.


----------



## jerseygirl

Tim and David -- thanks.  Since the Soggy Dollar will definitely be part of our itinerary, the "turn off international roaming" tip is great.  It's great to know we'll have a "free phone" on next year's trip.  

And, Tim -- enjoy your trip!


----------



## DavidnRobin

Not only the international roaming - but be careful with making phone calls from certain parts of STJ - as the signal may go thru the BVI (this happened to my brother).  This is not a problem at WSJ - but in Coral Bay (perhaps).

Enjoy - it appears that we are going to WSJ next year - yeah!  (it was uncertain due to job changes).

wave to the Soggy Dollar webcam - enjoy those Painkillers and have a Bushwacker at One Love if the electricity is working (and don't forget Woody's walkup window at Happy Hour...)


----------



## olivias dad

Speaking of the SoggyDollar cam, does anyone know when it will be back online?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*MF update for WSJ Hillside*

For 2Bd Townhouse - increase in base MFs (not special assessments) - w/o SVN fee

2005	$1,052.87	
2006	$1,204.13	14.4%
2007	$1,322.98	9.9%
2008	$1,521.17	15%
2009	$1,600.65	5.2%
2010	$2,000.88	25%
{SA = ~$865 over 3 years - 2009 to 2011}

almost doubled in 5 years...

I just sent a very harsh note to the WSJ HOA.
If this incredible increase of 25% in MFs is because of Owners not paying MFs - do Owners ever get compenstated via these units becoming available via SVN, II/RCI, or thru the rental programs?
If this increase causes even more Owners to default or be deliquent - do abiding Owners also take on their MFs?  If so - then it becomes a slippery slope.

I want answers!

Please contact the WSJ HOA and complain LOUDLY


----------



## Carolyn

DavidnRobin said:


> For 2Bd Townhouse - increase in base MFs (not special assessments) - w/o SVN fee
> 
> 2005	$1,052.87
> 2006	$1,204.13	14.4%
> 2007	$1,322.98	9.9%
> 2008	$1,521.17	15%
> 2009	$1,600.65	5.2%
> 2010	$2,000.88	25%
> {SA = ~$865 over 3 years - 2009 to 2011}
> 
> almost doubled in 5 years...
> 
> I just sent a very harsh note to the WSJ HOA.
> If this incredible increase of 25% in MFs is because of Owners not paying MFs - do Owners ever get compenstated via these units becoming available via SVN, II/RCI, or thru the rental programs?
> If this increase causes even more Owners to default or be deliquent - do abiding Owners also take on their MFs?  If so - then it becomes a slippery slope.
> 
> I want answers!
> 
> Please contact the WSJ HOA and complain LOUDLY



David,

Any idea how I would find out these past mf's for the 1 BR Premium Villa?
We have only owned for 2 years.  Thanks.

Carolyn


----------



## jerseygirl

David --

We should be pushing for owners to have the ability to "adopt an unpaid week," pay the maintenance fee and use it.  They could do it on a first come-first serve basis ... or a lottery, whatever.  One resort where I owned a week had a program like that and it was really successful -- took the collection rate to almost 100% and it had some not-so-great seasons.  WSJ is popular with owners year-round ... even in the height of hurricane season.

How do you contact the HOA?  Mystarcentral's message center?  I have no faith I'm getting a response from anyone other than a clerk in the client service area when I use that.  I'm REALLY bothered by the lack of transparency.  I have names, email and home addresses for HOA board members at other resorts where I own weeks.

I am convinced that Starwood has gone "unchecked" for far too long.  We really need to get organized about challenging stuff like this.

-- Jerseygirl


----------



## LisaRex

jerseygirl said:


> How do you contact the HOA?  Mystarcentral's message center?  I have no faith I'm getting a response from anyone other than a clerk in the client service area when I use that.  I'm REALLY bothered by the lack of transparency.  I have names, email and home addresses for HOA board members at other resorts where I own weeks.



One poster reported that he sent a note asking for the HOA board member names and he was sent the information.  I'd send a note asking for names and CONTACT information.

I think we should also be sending emails to the President of SVO.  He needs to hear our complaints.


----------



## olivias dad

While I have seen the pictures on MyStarCentral of the renovations to the Hillside Units - does anyone have any pictures of their recent stay?  While we were there this past August, work was being done on Blding 33 and 34 (our unit) was next.  We are already booked to go next year and just curious of the new look?


----------



## Carolyn

olivias dad said:


> While I have seen the pictures on MyStarCentral of the renovations to the Hillside Units - does anyone have any pictures of their recent stay?  While we were there this past August, work was being done on Blding 33 and 34 (our unit) was next.  We are already booked to go next year and just curious of the new look?



I should be in Bldg 33 in a 1 BR Premium Villa Nov. 7-14 although we own in Bldg 34.
I plan to take pix of our Villa and will try to see if I can get into a studio and 2BR if possible.  They better be pretty darn nice for the amount of money we are paying.

Carolyn


----------



## tlpnet

I learned something new about St. John today. They have earthquakes here! Being from SoCal, not something I'm not used to, but was caught off guard about 30 minutes ago. Probably around a 4.0, but solidly felt upstairs. Feeling more and more at home here. 

-tim

**UPDATE:  USGS put it at 3.6 - more info here


----------



## jerseygirl

I was there for a week recenlty and stayed in the first 2-BR townhouse (corner unit -- maybe 3110?) that you come to in the lower Hillside buildings.  The unit looked great. Both bedrooms identical (except one has a view) so I only took one picture:  







And, I have one of the living room.  







Thought I took one of the kitchen but I must not have saved it -- sorry -- it looked great.


Quality not great -- last minute cell phone picures with bad light.  




olivias dad said:


> While I have seen the pictures on MyStarCentral of the renovations to the Hillside Units - does anyone have any pictures of their recent stay?  While we were there this past August, work was being done on Blding 33 and 34 (our unit) was next.  We are already booked to go next year and just curious of the new look?


----------



## DeniseM

DavidnRobin said:


> For 2Bd Townhouse - increase in base MFs (not special assessments) - w/o SVN fee
> 
> 2005	$1,052.87
> 2006	$1,204.13	14.4%
> 2007	$1,322.98	9.9%
> 2008	$1,521.17	15%
> 2009	$1,600.65	5.2%
> 2010	$2,000.88	25%
> {SA = ~$865 over 3 years - 2009 to 2011}



Is this projected or the actual 2010 fee? - thanks!


----------



## jerseygirl

This one might be a little bit better of the living room:


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> Is this projected or the actual 2010 fee? - thanks!



This is on the letter sent to WSJ Owners to be approved at upcoming HOA meeting - this preliminary budget has been approved every year by the HOA (of course)


----------



## DavidnRobin

olivias dad said:


> While I have seen the pictures on MyStarCentral of the renovations to the Hillside Units - does anyone have any pictures of their recent stay?  While we were there this past August, work was being done on Blding 33 and 34 (our unit) was next.  We are already booked to go next year and just curious of the new look?



Yes - in my trip report from June.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ/SVO Management Response*

So...  I wrote a strongly worded email via MSC to WSJ Association Management concerning the 25% increase in base MFs (as well as a doubling of MFs over a 5 year period) - as well as the question regarding Owner deliquent MFs and defaults and the burden to WSJ Owners where we take all the loss but not the gain (e.g. villas being put into a rental pool that only benefits WSJ/SVN) - this was their response:
*******

Thank you for contacting Association Management. 

The Board of Directors and the Association reviews and analyzes all avenues to achieve the lowest possible dues increase. Their goal is to bill out fees without sacrificing the level of amenity that you as an owner have come to expect. They must also ensure the resort continues to meet certain brand standards. 

Unfortunately many items in the annual operating budget are not fixed expenses and are outside of the control of the Board of Directors. Many of these items include: utilities, insurance, and supplier cost. In addition, the cost of business in the islands has increased which has created a big impact in the amount billed annually. 

As you know your Association has been adversely impacted by the current economy. The increase in owner delinquency has created a shortfall in the Association's cash flow. The Board will continue to reinforce collection efforts to recover lost funds. Those owners who default on their payment will loose their usage benefits for the year. We will also continue to send delinquent notifications and interest and late fee will be assessed to delinquent accounts. In addition the Board of Directors has implemented cost savings initiatives to minimize any shortfall which includes energy audits, compact-fluorescent bulbs, and a reduction in the maximum hours hourly employees can work. A working capital reserve fund is being added to insure that the association doesn't run out of funds in the future. Unfortunately reserve funds cannot be used to make up for a deficiency in operating funds. 

The Association will also consider different alternatives to gain revenue such as unit rental. 

Being a condominium, all Owners share the responsibility for ensuring that the Association meets these obligations. As the economy improves and delinquencies eventually decline, allowances will be re-evaluated for a potential reduction. However for now, we must all share in ensuring expenses are fully paid and uncollectible accounts provisioned. 

We hope this gives you a better understanding of the situation. If you have any other questions please feel free to contacting Association Management at 1-800-729-8246/407-903-4670. 

Sincerely, 
XXXX _{Note: I removed name since I am unclear about policy here...}_
SVO Association Management


----------



## DanCali

DavidnRobin said:


> The Board of Directors and the Association reviews and analyzes all avenues to achieve the lowest possible dues increase...



I guess a decrease is not even an option!


----------



## LisaRex

> The Board will continue to reinforce collection efforts to recover lost funds. Those owners who default on their payment will loose their usage benefits for the year.



BFD.  What I want to know is what is in it for ME to cover someone else's MFs?  It is absolutely ridiculous to expect one set of owners to subsidize delinquent owners -- and get zero benefits for doing so.  _At the very least_, we should be given pro-rated SOs to make up for the SOs that have been forefeited.  At most we should be given a refund once that villa is rented. 

I am also scoring over my OA trying to find where I've agreed to be responsible for other owner's MFs.  I don't think such language exists.  It's akin to a landlord at a strip mall saying, "Hey, I know you're a good paying tenant.  But the guy next door to you is not.  So because I don't enjoy losing money, I'm going to split the cost of his rent with all the other tenants.  And, no, you don't get to use his space."


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> BFD.  What I want to know is what is in it for ME to cover someone else's MFs?  It is absolutely ridiculous to expect one set of owners to subsidize delinquent owners -- and get zero benefits for doing so.  _At the very least_, we should be given pro-rated SOs to make up for the SOs that have been forefeited.  At most we should be given a refund once that villa is rented.
> 
> I am also scoring over my OA trying to find where I've agreed to be responsible for other owner's MFs.  I don't think such language exists.  It's akin to a landlord at a strip mall saying, "Hey, I know you're a good paying tenant.  But the guy next door to you is not.  So because I don't enjoy losing money, I'm going to split the cost of his rent with all the other tenants.  And, no, you don't get to use his space."



I have started looking at the OM for how non-Developer owned VOIs are handled in the case of deliquency and/or default by an Owner.  As you know these docs are huge...

Unfortunately - it appears that Owner-owned (non-Developer owned) VOIs are on the hook for unpaid MFs.

What I have yet to find is how this is handled beyond the Owner not being able to reserve their usage.  How is the VOI handled? (the VOI usage for the year does go back to the association - but unclear what happens after that...)

I have copied/pasted key areas of the OM into a Word doc - with the intent of understanding these sections - with the further attempt to force the BOD to address these issues directly with Owners by their own accord according to the OM - and if not begin evaluating approaches (including legal action) to force action by the BOD - as well as transparency.

Is it possible to copy sections of PDF files into a post?  If so - how?

I ask this so other Tuggers can read/understand and input on the specific sections of the OM that involve Owner Deliquency - and the Rights of the Developer, the Association, and the Owners.


----------



## jerseygirl

David --

With most PDFs (those that were not scanned), it is possible to copy and paste.  

--double click on the first word you wish to copy (it should then be highlighted)
-- then, move your cursor to the end of the section you wish to highlight, hit "shift" and then click once
-- the entire section should now be highlighted
-- hold the control key and hit "c" to copy
-- then move over to the thread, hold the control key and hit "v" to paste

It won't be formatted properly, but unless the section is HUGE, it usually only takes a few seconds to delete unnecessary returns to "clean it up a bit."  And, don't worry, we'll forgive you for imperfect formatting!

I'm going out of town for a couple of days, but as soon as I get home, I'll look for the language provided by another one of my resorts.  It's clear as a bell ... something along the lines of, "Owners who are deliquent more than 60 days will have their units put into the rental pool.  The rental income will be transferred to the HOA to offset the unpaid maintenance fee."  (This particular resort had an almost 100% successful rental program until last year ... when the success rate dropped, presumably due to the economy.)   

As I mentioned once before, I once owned a resort with an "adopt a week program."  You could call on March 1 of every year and voluntarily pay someone's deliquent maintenance fee to gain access to the usage week for that year only.  It was very popular as it allowed for an extra week's usage with zero upfront costs.  This would be my FIRST CHOICE for a remedy to the problem at WSJ.  Not to be selfish (well, okay, I'm being selfish) but I don't see why anyone other than WSJ owners should benefit.  

Now, if rentals could bring in even more money, I'd vote for that option as it would theoretically result in a decrease in maintenance fees and wouldn't require any sort of "fairness test/procedure for who gets to "adopt" the delinquent weeks.  But, I think they might have trouble renting off-season weeks, especially since Bay Village is not sold out.  Sorry, I'm back to voting for the "adopt a week" plan! 
e


----------



## tlpnet

DavidnRobin said:


> Let us know about the roofs and sidings - this was a major part of the SA.
> Enjoy your trip - we may end up going to WSJ in 2010 after all (hopefully)


 
Building 32 and the roofs are slated for next year.

And I heard a rumor that they are using gold-lined mahogony shingles from South America, but don't worry, they got a very good price from Starwood Construction Materials SA.

-tim


----------



## DavidnRobin

Not STJ or WSJ but a trip report worth reading - amazing trip report to The Love Shack on Lovango Cay - right across from STJ - I place we snorkled at 2 years ago - golden...

http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14011 
http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14024 
http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14035 
http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14037 
http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14085 
http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14096 
http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14115


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Legal Action*

Has anyone heard of legal action taken by WSJ Owners towards SVO/WSJ (re: MFs)?
If so - please chime in...

Added:
Possibly by attorney Tom De Clemente and Associates????
(201) 864-0200


----------



## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Has anyone heard of legal action taken by WSJ Owners towards SVO/WSJ (re: MFs)?
> If so - please chime in...
> 
> Added:
> Possibly by attorney Tom De Clemente and Associates
> (201) 864-0200



Bumping for Tom De Clemente...
I had very interesting conversation with Tom - let's see where it goes.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Possible Legal Action by WWJ Owners*

For those of you interested in whether or not there is going to be legal action by the WWJ owners, we are working on it.  Tom DeClemente is working with some attorneys down in U.S.V.I. to get the ball rolling.  However, it's going to take some effort on the part of the owners.  There are roughly 10,000 owners at WSJ.  The more owners we can get together, the more of a case we have.  Starwood is not going to give us a list of them.  However, they are all public records which are located in St. Thomas at the recorder's office.  Tom indicated to me that some owners who will be in St. John around the New Year for two weeks plan to spend some time gathering names (we need their name, home address, telephone number, weeks/units they own, etc).  However, it may take a team effort of several owners volunteering a day or two of their vacation and doing it in an orderly fashion so that different owners spending time down there don't come up with the same names as others.  

Based on conversations with Tom, it appears that Starwood has broken the law by upgrading units without the 2/3 approval needed by the WSJ shareholders.  Furthermore, they have no business doing upgrades when they can't properly maintain our properties.  There are many postings on here about how poorly the units are maintained.  It seems that in many cases, Starwood insists on using locals to do the repairs and they simply do not know what they are doing.  Also, most owners are not necessarily looking to stay in ultra luxurious unit that have the most up-to-date modern amenties of a Westin hotel in a major city.  We just want a nice place to stay on one of the most beautiful islands in the Carribean.  One example would be the flat screen TV's that have been put in most of the units.  Don't get me wrong, we all like them.  However, most of us were ok with the regular color TV's that were in perfectly fine condition. Starwood practically gave them away to locals when they purchased the flat screen TV's.  BTW, these flat screens have been damaged because the cleaning staff hasn't been trained how to take care of them.  They have been using windex on the screens which has damaged them and will take quite a bit of $$ to repair.

With Starwood's justification that we have to keep up with Westin standards, guess what?  In 2012, when the assessment is complete, it's going to be time to do another upgrade and our maintenance is going to double again.  When Starwood sold me my first week in 2001, they gave me a schedule of how much money you save over a lifetime by purchasing a timeshare.  It made perfectly good sense then, but not if we constantly have massive increases in maintenance fees.  It's at a point now where an owner is lucky to break even on a rental.  That's if they can rent at all in this horrible economy.  forget about selling now.  Nobody wants to buy a unit with such outrageous maintenance fees.  Some owners have virtually given their units away in what is known as a "fire sale" just so they don't have to pay maintenance in the future.  Some owners have abandoned their weeks altogether.  Starwood is using that as an excuse to raise the maintenance further on those who do pay.

Tom has suggested (and I agree with him) that we launch a massive PR campaign to prevent Starwood from selling the Bay Vista units at the Westin.  Maybe if we hit them where it hurts the most, they will start listening to us, change their ways, and understand that we are not ATM machines.  I've been in touch with brokers on the secondary market and they are not aware of any of these issues at Starwood properties in the Continental U.S. nor in Hawaii.  It's seems like it is only us in St. John who are being hit with these massive maintenance fees.  Some ideas are for owners to picket the sales office during their vacation.  Other ideas are to put ads in local publications discouraging the purchase of units at Bay Vista.  BTW, some people suggested to me that this might be cutting our nose despite our face.  It's not true.  Starwood has nothing to do with resales of our units.  That is done on the secondary market.  Nobody in their right mind is going to ever buy a unit (especially the secondary market where there are no Starwood incentives to make a purchase) with such high maintenance fees.  That has to be brought under control before a decent sale can take place.

If there is anybody out there who specializes in PR, maybe you can give us suggestions in this regard.  Also, if anyone can suggest an orderly way to gather every owner's name, we would be interested in hearing from you.

Regards,
GeneNWendy


----------



## xcg001

HI GeneNWendy,

Let me say I support your efforts with my full heart and even though I am not an owner in St John I am willing to contribute several hundred $ to someone that can organize such thing in any Starwood resort (I bet others will too).
And I think a successful revolt at St. John will be something that will really shake Starwood as a whole (plus I think St. John not being a huge resort seems like a easier place to organize than huge resorts like Vistana).
I personally own at SBP and can not understand how can they ask for 21% increase in a resort that is not even on the beach (for reference I also own 2 other resorts at MB and these both had ~2-3% MF increase for 2010 even though their fees are much lower in the first place).
I think one of the first think needed to organize such effort will be a good website that can clearly state the problems with current Starwood management - we should take example from Worldmark owners fighting much harder fight against their developer (since WorldMark has no home resort they are trying to organize almost 300,000 owners) - check http://www.wmowners.com


----------



## jerseygirl

xcg001 --

see my response to your earlier post on this thread:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109981

I didn't realize you owned at SBP.  We should join efforts as it sounds like our ideas are similar (I hadn't read your above post when I responded to the earlier one).  

-- Jerseygirl


----------



## Carolyn

GeneNWendy said:


> For those of you interested in whether or not there is going to be legal action by the WWJ owners, we are working on it.  Tom DeClemente is working with some attorneys down in U.S.V.I. to get the ball rolling.  However, it's going to take some effort on the part of the owners.  There are roughly 10,000 owners at WSJ.  The more owners we can get together, the more of a case we have.  Starwood is not going to give us a list of them.  However, they are all public records which are located in St. Thomas at the recorder's office.  Tom indicated to me that some owners who will be in St. John around the New Year for two weeks plan to spend some time gathering names (we need their name, home address, telephone number, weeks/units they own, etc).  However, it may take a team effort of several owners volunteering a day or two of their vacation and doing it in an orderly fashion so that different owners spending time down there don't come up with the same names as others.
> 
> Based on conversations with Tom, it appears that Starwood has broken the law by upgrading units without the 2/3 approval needed by the WSJ shareholders.  Furthermore, they have no business doing upgrades when they can't properly maintain our properties.  There are many postings on here about how poorly the units are maintained.  It seems that in many cases, Starwood insists on using locals to do the repairs and they simply do not know what they are doing.  Also, most owners are not necessarily looking to stay in ultra luxurious unit that have the most up-to-date modern amenties of a Westin hotel in a major city.  We just want a nice place to stay on one of the most beautiful islands in the Carribean.  One example would be the flat screen TV's that have been put in most of the units.  Don't get me wrong, we all like them.  However, most of us were ok with the regular color TV's that were in perfectly fine condition. Starwood practically gave them away to locals when they purchased the flat screen TV's.  BTW, these flat screens have been damaged because the cleaning staff hasn't been trained how to take care of them.  They have been using windex on the screens which has damaged them and will take quite a bit of $$ to repair.
> 
> With Starwood's justification that we have to keep up with Westin standards, guess what?  In 2012, when the assessment is complete, it's going to be time to do another upgrade and our maintenance is going to double again.  When Starwood sold me my first week in 2001, they gave me a schedule of how much money you save over a lifetime by purchasing a timeshare.  It made perfectly good sense then, but not if we constantly have massive increases in maintenance fees.  It's at a point now where an owner is lucky to break even on a rental.  That's if they can rent at all in this horrible economy.  forget about selling now.  Nobody wants to buy a unit with such outrageous maintenance fees.  Some owners have virtually given their units away in what is known as a "fire sale" just so they don't have to pay maintenance in the future.  Some owners have abandoned their weeks altogether.  Starwood is using that as an excuse to raise the maintenance further on those who do pay.
> 
> Tom has suggested (and I agree with him) that we launch a massive PR campaign to prevent Starwood from selling the Bay Vista units at the Westin.  Maybe if we hit them where it hurts the most, they will start listening to us, change their ways, and understand that we are not ATM machines.  I've been in touch with brokers on the secondary market and they are not aware of any of these issues at Starwood properties in the Continental U.S. nor in Hawaii.  It's seems like it is only us in St. John who are being hit with these massive maintenance fees.  Some ideas are for owners to picket the sales office during their vacation.  Other ideas are to put ads in local publications discouraging the purchase of units at Bay Vista.  BTW, some people suggested to me that this might be cutting our nose despite our face.  It's not true.  Starwood has nothing to do with resales of our units.  That is done on the secondary market.  Nobody in their right mind is going to ever buy a unit (especially the secondary market where there are no Starwood incentives to make a purchase) with such high maintenance fees.  That has to be brought under control before a decent sale can take place.
> 
> If there is anybody out there who specializes in PR, maybe you can give us suggestions in this regard.  Also, if anyone can suggest an orderly way to gather every owner's name, we would be interested in hearing from you.
> 
> Regards,
> GeneNWendy



I am at WSJ right now and will write more under another thread shortly.  I have played around on this website which shows every owner at WSJ:

http://www.virginislands.us.landata.com/#

Anyone can set up a free account but I have never tried to go beyond this first step.  However, under "PRICING" it states:

*Subscribers will pay a fee of $ 75.00 per month per account and for that fee will receive the following benefits:  
  •   Unlimited view of index data. 
  •   Purchase document images at a discounted rate (where applicable).  
      Current Price List and Image Availability for Subscribers
Application Price Per Doc/Page   
St Thomas Land Records $1.00 PER PAGE See Image Availability 
  Image Availability Not Purchased Purchased 
  View YES YES 
  Print NO YES 
  Save NO YES 

St Croix Land Records $1.00 PER PAGE See Image Availability 
  Image Availability Not Purchased Purchased 
  View YES YES 
  Print NO YES 
  Save NO YES 

St. Thomas Historical Images $1.00 PER PAGE See Image Availability 
  Image Availability Not Purchased Purchased 
  View YES YES 
  Print NO YES 
  Save NO YES 

St. Croix Historical Images $1.00 PER PAGE See Image Availability 
  Image Availability Not Purchased Purchased 
  View YES YES 
  Print NO YES 
  Save NO YES 


  •   A history of all purchased document images will be maintained and these document images will be available for subsequent view/print/save where available.  
  •   Master Accounts: Anyone who registers using the Register link on the main page and then subscribes to the site will be a Master Subscriber. The Master Subscriber Account feature will be useful for large firms, companies etc. that would like to enable more than 1 user in the same company or firm under the Master Account. A Master Subscriber Account may enable up to 5 Sub-Accounts to be added at any time. The fee for each Sub-Account will be $ 25.00 for setup which includes access for the rest of the first month up to the billing date for the Master Account. Additional Sub-Account subscription months can be added at the rate of $ 25.00 per month per Sub-Account.  

Non Subscriber  
Non subscribers do not pay a monthly fee and receive the following benefits:  
  •   Unlimited view of index data. 
  •   Purchase document images (where applicable).  
      Current Price List and Image Availability for Non-Subscribers
Application Price Per Doc/Page   
St Thomas Land Records $2.00 PER PAGE See Image Availability 
  Image Availability Not Purchased Purchased 
  View NO YES 
  Print NO YES 
  Save NO YES 

St Croix Land Records $2.00 PER PAGE See Image Availability 
  Image Availability Not Purchased Purchased 
  View NO YES 
  Print NO YES 
  Save NO YES 

St. Thomas Historical Images $2.00 PER PAGE See Image Availability 
  Image Availability Not Purchased Purchased 
  View NO YES 
  Print NO YES 
  Save NO YES 

St. Croix Historical Images $2.00 PER PAGE See Image Availability 
  Image Availability Not Purchased Purchased 
  View NO YES 
  Print NO YES 
  Save NO YES 


  •   A history of all purchased document images will be maintained and these document images will be available for subsequent view/print/save where available.  

Payment for subscription services, document images, and fees is to be made by credit card. We accept MasterCard and Visa. 

Online credits may also be purchased using a credit card. Online credits may be used to pay for services, document images, and fees. Online credits are for use on the Internet Site only.*

This might be a much easier way to get the information we need than going to St. Thomas.

We went to the "Owners Update" today.....what a joke!!! It should be called "I know nothing about what is going on with your Villa or maintenance fee but will sell you another one!"  I thought we were going to actually get some answers to our questions...NOT.  More to come in another thread soon.... I promise. 

Carolyn


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding land data website*

Carolyn,

I looked in that website a little bit myself in the past.  There is a lot of information available through it, but can you get an owner's home address (not just their WSJ address) off of it?  Also, what about a home telphone number?  I admit, I didn't spend a lot of time on the website, but if that information is available online, you would be right.  We could save a lot of time that way and avoid a trip to St. Thomas.

Regards,
Gene Jaspan


----------



## DavidnRobin

Many ownerships listed at the WSJ Recorders office website have two addresses listed under two different names - which I assume are Developer Owned.

Many others are incomplete.  I was ableto go through 100s when the site was free - with a few simple search terms.

I have a bunch of WSJ Owners addresses- and many are lurking here.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*C&B closes at WSJ - new restaurant to open (Cruz Bay Prime)*

Island’s Newest Restaurant: Cruz Bay Prime        
Written by Tradewinds Staff     
Tuesday, 24 November 2009 10:32  

When the Westin Resort and Villas restaurant Chole and Bernard’s shut its doors over the summer, it left a fine dining hole on the hotel’s property and on the island.

Next month that hole will be filled when Cruz Bay Prime opens at the location. The restaurant will be operated by Westin Resort and will feature prime U.S.D.A. beef as well as fresh seafood selections and locally grown produce, according to the resort’s interim general manager Kim Chappell.

“The beef is about as good as you can get,” said Chappell. “We’re working with our purveyors now and we’re also working to have our vegetables and produce grown locally just for the restaurant.”

Cruz Bay Prime will be open five nights a week for dinner and will also feature several appetizer options and traditional steak house family style side dishes.

While the menu is sure to be out of this world, the prices will be down to Earth, Chappell added.

“Price wise, we’re really working to keep things down,” he said. “The cost of steaks are high, but we’re going to make sure that everything is reasonably priced. We don’t want people to think that just because it’s a hotel restaurant the prices will be astronomical.”

“The menu prices will be similar to other first class restaurants in town, if not a bit lower,” Chappell said.

The restaurant will also be a causal affair, with no dress code, Chappell added.

“It’s going to be first class, but not fancy,” he said. “You can still come in and enjoy our food in shorts. It won’t be stuffy or fancy, it’ll be fun.”

Resort officials are currently hiring a chef and full staff and expect to have Cruz Bay Prime open by December 16.

With the new steak house restaurant on site, Westin St. John hopes to attract a loyal following of hotel and timeshare guests as well as locals.

“We’re really excited about this and we hope that it will become a restaurant where people are going to want to come back again and again,” said Chappell. “We want to accommodate our timeshare and hotel guests and attract locals as well.”

Cruz Bay Prime will feature live music on Friday and Saturday nights and will serve dinner from around 5:30 to approximately 10 p.m. Wednesday through Sunday. For more information call the hotel at 693-8000.


----------



## tomandrobin

Hmmm...

Well I like a good steak dinner, but not sure about this new restaurant. Hopefully, it will have a Caribbean flair to the menu. 

Since I won't be back to St John until 2011, it has at least 20 months to settle in before we are back.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Attention all owners of WSJ villas*

If any of you are interested in being part of a class-action suit, please send me a private thread with your name, e-mail address, home address, telephone number, week and unit number owned.  I will add you to a database I have of several WSJ owners.  The more people we get, the better the case we have.

GeneNWendy










GeneNWendy said:


> For those of you interested in whether or not there is going to be legal action by the WWJ owners, we are working on it.  Tom DeClemente is working with some attorneys down in U.S.V.I. to get the ball rolling.  However, it's going to take some effort on the part of the owners.  There are roughly 10,000 owners at WSJ.  The more owners we can get together, the more of a case we have.  Starwood is not going to give us a list of them.  However, they are all public records which are located in St. Thomas at the recorder's office.  Tom indicated to me that some owners who will be in St. John around the New Year for two weeks plan to spend some time gathering names (we need their name, home address, telephone number, weeks/units they own, etc).  However, it may take a team effort of several owners volunteering a day or two of their vacation and doing it in an orderly fashion so that different owners spending time down there don't come up with the same names as others.
> 
> Based on conversations with Tom, it appears that Starwood has broken the law by upgrading units without the 2/3 approval needed by the WSJ shareholders.  Furthermore, they have no business doing upgrades when they can't properly maintain our properties.  There are many postings on here about how poorly the units are maintained.  It seems that in many cases, Starwood insists on using locals to do the repairs and they simply do not know what they are doing.  Also, most owners are not necessarily looking to stay in ultra luxurious unit that have the most up-to-date modern amenties of a Westin hotel in a major city.  We just want a nice place to stay on one of the most beautiful islands in the Carribean.  One example would be the flat screen TV's that have been put in most of the units.  Don't get me wrong, we all like them.  However, most of us were ok with the regular color TV's that were in perfectly fine condition. Starwood practically gave them away to locals when they purchased the flat screen TV's.  BTW, these flat screens have been damaged because the cleaning staff hasn't been trained how to take care of them.  They have been using windex on the screens which has damaged them and will take quite a bit of $$ to repair.
> 
> With Starwood's justification that we have to keep up with Westin standards, guess what?  In 2012, when the assessment is complete, it's going to be time to do another upgrade and our maintenance is going to double again.  When Starwood sold me my first week in 2001, they gave me a schedule of how much money you save over a lifetime by purchasing a timeshare.  It made perfectly good sense then, but not if we constantly have massive increases in maintenance fees.  It's at a point now where an owner is lucky to break even on a rental.  That's if they can rent at all in this horrible economy.  forget about selling now.  Nobody wants to buy a unit with such outrageous maintenance fees.  Some owners have virtually given their units away in what is known as a "fire sale" just so they don't have to pay maintenance in the future.  Some owners have abandoned their weeks altogether.  Starwood is using that as an excuse to raise the maintenance further on those who do pay.
> 
> Tom has suggested (and I agree with him) that we launch a massive PR campaign to prevent Starwood from selling the Bay Vista units at the Westin.  Maybe if we hit them where it hurts the most, they will start listening to us, change their ways, and understand that we are not ATM machines.  I've been in touch with brokers on the secondary market and they are not aware of any of these issues at Starwood properties in the Continental U.S. nor in Hawaii.  It's seems like it is only us in St. John who are being hit with these massive maintenance fees.  Some ideas are for owners to picket the sales office during their vacation.  Other ideas are to put ads in local publications discouraging the purchase of units at Bay Vista.  BTW, some people suggested to me that this might be cutting our nose despite our face.  It's not true.  Starwood has nothing to do with resales of our units.  That is done on the secondary market.  Nobody in their right mind is going to ever buy a unit (especially the secondary market where there are no Starwood incentives to make a purchase) with such high maintenance fees.  That has to be brought under control before a decent sale can take place.
> 
> If there is anybody out there who specializes in PR, maybe you can give us suggestions in this regard.  Also, if anyone can suggest an orderly way to gather every owner's name, we would be interested in hearing from you.
> 
> Regards,
> GeneNWendy





DavidnRobin said:


> Has anyone heard of legal action taken by WSJ Owners towards SVO/WSJ (re: MFs)?
> If so - please chime in...
> 
> Added:
> Possibly by attorney Tom De Clemente and Associates????
> (201) 864-0200


----------



## DavidnRobin

*eBay Auction (ended) on a 2Bd/3Ba TH - week #25*

wanted to bump-up this thread and...

there was an eBay auction that just ended for a WSJ Hillside (81K SOs) 2Bd/3Ba TH villa - week 25, unit 3410

(I haven't been tracking eBay sales for a while, but just happen to check yesterday when I returned to TUG)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180442835671

that has a winning price of $20,252.00 (!!!???)

considering that I own week 23-24 of this same villa - this makes me happy since I paid much less than this for our 2 weeks.

The seller had misinformation (or missing info) in the auction  - which (as I sometimes do) I informed them of - they told me I was wrong (lol).  e.g.

1) The VOI is Friday check-in (deeded) - not Sat, but they are playing off the old flexible weeks exchange during the Owner's season (which we all know that on paper this is true, but in reality rarely happens)

2) The MFs are listed as $1800 (I wish...) when they are in fact $2800 (due today btw) - the auction winner has a surprise coming...

3) No mention of taxes due (since 2006) - another 'surprise!' for the auction winner.

plus a few minor issues...


It does go to show that a no reserve auction is the way to go on eBay since a bidding war was created - now it will be interesting if the misinfo (or lack of) will come back to bite the seller...

The seller had a '0' ebay rating - but that did not seem to affect the ending price since many of these villa types have sold for less.


----------



## DanCali

DavidnRobin said:


> wanted to bump-up this thread and...
> 
> there was an eBay auction that just ended for a WSJ Hillside (81K SOs) 2Bd/3Ba TH villa - week 25, unit 3410
> 
> (I haven't been tracking eBay sales for a while, but just happen to check yesterday when I returned to TUG)
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180442835671
> 
> that has a winning price of $20,252.00 (!!!???)
> 
> considering that I own week 23-24 of this same villa - this makes me happy since I paid much less than this for our 2 weeks.
> 
> The seller had misinformation (or missing info) in the auction  - which (as I sometimes do) I informed them of - they told me I was wrong (lol).  e.g.
> 
> 1) The VOI is Friday check-in (deeded) - not Sat, but they are playing off the old flexible weeks exchange during the Owner's season (which we all know that on paper this is true, but in reality rarely happens)
> 
> 2) The MFs are listed as $1800 (I wish...) when they are in fact $2800 (due today btw) - the auction winner has a surprise coming...
> 
> 3) No mention of taxes due (since 2006) - another 'surprise!' for the auction winner.
> 
> plus a few minor issues...
> 
> 
> It does go to show that a no reserve auction is the way to go on eBay since a bidding war was created - now it will be interesting if the misinfo (or lack of) will come back to bite the seller...
> 
> The seller had a '0' ebay rating - but that did not seem to affect the ending price since many of these villa types have sold for less.



Sorry for my ignorance on this resort... I recall one phase is voluntary and one mandatory? Did the buyer get SOs here (not that they should use them)?


----------



## DeniseM

Yes - Hillside is mandatory - 





> WSJ Hillside (81K SOs)


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Letter from Tom DeClemente to WSJ HOA*



GeneNWendy said:


> If any of you are interested in being part of a class-action suit, please send me a private thread with your name, e-mail address, home address, telephone number, week and unit number owned.  I will add you to a database I have of several WSJ owners.  The more people we get, the better the case we have.



Everyone who might be interested in the class action suit, here is a letter that Tom Declemente has sent to them outlining some of our plans to take action.



Virgin Grand Villas-St John Condo. Owners Assoc. 
PO Box 105104
Atlanta Georgia
30348-5104


Dear Sir/Madam:


	 I am enclosing my check, paid under protest, for $31,214.17 for the following weeks in Villa XXXX: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, and 34 as well as for Villa XXXX, week 6. The remaining $13,496.86 for the replacement reserves will be paid in the first week of March 2010.

	My position and most other owners position in dealing with the absurd maintenance fees and replacement reserve costs have cost any remaining goodwill that SVO/Westin may have once had to disappear. It is our collective intention to bring this abomination to the attention of the public, the media, and the courts as to what is being done to us, the owners of this beautiful resort, who are being used by SVO/Westin as ATM’s. Many of us make a decent living but find the amount of money that is being claimed as necessary for maintenance on an annual basis to border on gross negligence and possible illegal conduct. We fully intend to pursue every lawful measure to take control of the board and to punish any we find who breached their fiduciary duty and/or legal responsibility to the owners.

	It is also my position shared by most owners that the entire board should resign forthwith and that a new election be held no later than the end of March 2010 to replace the current board. Also, it is our intention to see to it that no SVO/Westin employee becomes a member of the new board as it is an obvious conflict of interest. 

	It is requested that all owners names and addresses and e-mail contacts be made immediately accessible so that communication between us is possible. Failure to provide this contact information by February 1st 2010 will result in an action to compel the production of same. Further legal fees and costs will be sought as it will be deemed a deliberate attempt to prevent the owners from protecting their ownership interests. 

	The owners are beginning to come together on their own and within a short period of time there will be a massive media campaign, legal action and other initiatives in an effort to bring to light the corruption that we believe is demonstrated by the attempt to force owners to relinquish their units because they have become unaffordable. Not only have they become unaffordable but the construction of "pool villas" on hotel property has adversely affected the value of the units on the hillside and has diminished the services to the hillside owners in their ability to rent or sell. The resale value of our units has shrunk almost 40% in the last 2 years mostly because it has become very clear to prospective buyers that the units are unaffordable. This is especially egregious when it is declared by the board that a fair percentage of the owners who cannot pay require all paying owners to make up the difference. It is well known that the once legal owners are deprived of the use their villas for nonpayment that the units are used by the SVO as giveaways or rentals. The ownership association shows no income, including rents and fair market value attributions arising from the use of those repossessed units by non owners. That practice constitutes a blatant conversion of funds that should be attributable to the paying owners instead of forcing the paying owners to also pay for the owners who can no longer afford these onerous charges.

	All of the above is not an idle threat. All will happen in short order unless SVO/Westin comes to its senses, reduces the maintenance for 2010 by 30% and reimburses all of us who have paid the overage and cancels all replacement reserve fees which are being charged by virtue of illegally misapplying the bylaws that govern the St. John Villa Owners Association. 

 	I am circulating a copy of this letter to all members with whom I have contact information. I will request all owners receive this letter to circulate it to others. We will continue to fight to protect our rights from the voracious appetite of SVO/Westin. I believe you will soon be seeing many letters similar to this all decrying the betrayal of the Board and its minions to the owners. And you will see action as aforementioned.




									Very truly yours

									___________________
									Thomas A. DeClemente


----------



## Carolyn

When we had our "owners update" in November(and I use that term loosely), we asked some hard questions about the increase in the maintenance fee.  Of course the sales people play dumb and don't know what we are talking about so we pull out our letter and  mf bill for our 1 BR Premium.  After asking some tough questions we are told the mf increase is due to those owners not paying...duh!  We were told that Starwood can "repossess" the unit in 90 days and it can be back in their system to resell in 6 months!!  So we are just paying their ridiculous fees so they can make more money and resell these units.  In the mean time they are also renting out these units....making yet more money while we, the fiscally responsible owners, are footing the bill for ALL of the maintenance fees.
Count us in on any class action lawsuit.


----------



## GeneNWendy

Hi David and Robin,

I received that same response from management word for word when I contacted.

Gene





DavidnRobin said:


> So...  I wrote a strongly worded email via MSC to WSJ Association Management concerning the 25% increase in base MFs (as well as a doubling of MFs over a 5 year period) - as well as the question regarding Owner deliquent MFs and defaults and the burden to WSJ Owners where we take all the loss but not the gain (e.g. villas being put into a rental pool that only benefits WSJ/SVN) - this was their response:
> *******
> 
> Thank you for contacting Association Management.
> 
> The Board of Directors and the Association reviews and analyzes all avenues to achieve the lowest possible dues increase. Their goal is to bill out fees without sacrificing the level of amenity that you as an owner have come to expect. They must also ensure the resort continues to meet certain brand standards.
> 
> Unfortunately many items in the annual operating budget are not fixed expenses and are outside of the control of the Board of Directors. Many of these items include: utilities, insurance, and supplier cost. In addition, the cost of business in the islands has increased which has created a big impact in the amount billed annually.
> 
> As you know your Association has been adversely impacted by the current economy. The increase in owner delinquency has created a shortfall in the Association's cash flow. The Board will continue to reinforce collection efforts to recover lost funds. Those owners who default on their payment will loose their usage benefits for the year. We will also continue to send delinquent notifications and interest and late fee will be assessed to delinquent accounts. In addition the Board of Directors has implemented cost savings initiatives to minimize any shortfall which includes energy audits, compact-fluorescent bulbs, and a reduction in the maximum hours hourly employees can work. A working capital reserve fund is being added to insure that the association doesn't run out of funds in the future. Unfortunately reserve funds cannot be used to make up for a deficiency in operating funds.
> 
> The Association will also consider different alternatives to gain revenue such as unit rental.
> 
> Being a condominium, all Owners share the responsibility for ensuring that the Association meets these obligations. As the economy improves and delinquencies eventually decline, allowances will be re-evaluated for a potential reduction. However for now, we must all share in ensuring expenses are fully paid and uncollectible accounts provisioned.
> 
> We hope this gives you a better understanding of the situation. If you have any other questions please feel free to contacting Association Management at 1-800-729-8246/407-903-4670.
> 
> Sincerely,
> XXXX _{Note: I removed name since I am unclear about policy here...}_
> SVO Association Management


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding reposession of units*

Hi Carolyn,

I want to set the record straight on the repossession of units.  According to Tom DeClemente, not one single unit at WSJ has been foreclosed yet.  Forclosure requires attorneys on both sides and court dates to get it done.  There aren't that many attorneys in the Virgin Islands to represent everyone who hasn't paid their MF's in a forclosure.  Furthermore, the court dockets would be overloaded with all the people not paying their fees.  Starwood may be able to lock one out if they don't pay their fees and rent the empty unit to somebody, but they can't sell it until the foreclosure process is complete.  When Starwood says they can resell a unit within 6 months that's simply not true, particularly in USVI.  The question still remains with the rental of units that were locked out, "Where is the money going?".  Starwood is clearly acting in bad faith by not disclosing this information.

Once we file suit, they will be compelled by a judge to disclose it.  A forensic accountant can then be ordered in to audit their books.  Starwood is a publicly traded company that is regulated by the Federal Trade Commission and SEC.  If their is any evidence of wrongdoing (i.e. - misappropriation of funds) their reputation will go down the hill, so they may be anxious to settle at that point.

Starwood can also hire the best attorneys money can buy.  However that cannot change the fact that they violated the 2/3 ownership approval requirement in their by-laws by going ahead with upgrades in our units anyway.  According to Tom, that was clearly illegal and a judge will see that.  BTW, this case has Federal implications and will be heard by a Federal judge residing on USVI, not some local USVI judge.

Regards,
GeneNWendy







Carolyn said:


> When we had our "owners update" in November(and I use that term loosely), we asked some hard questions about the increase in the maintenance fee.  Of course the sales people play dumb and don't know what we are talking about so we pull out our letter and  mf bill for our 1 BR Premium.  After asking some tough questions we are told the mf increase is due to those owners not paying...duh!  We were told that Starwood can "repossess" the unit in 90 days and it can be back in their system to resell in 6 months!!  So we are just paying their ridiculous fees so they can make more money and resell these units.  In the mean time they are also renting out these units....making yet more money while we, the fiscally responsible owners, are footing the bill for ALL of the maintenance fees.
> Count us in on any class action lawsuit.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*If WSJ wants to treat this like a condominium*

Hi Dave and Robin,

Here's my view on the maintenance fees if Starwood insists on treating this like a condo.  I happen to live in one.  We pay $1,200.00 a month, which includes all utilities, parking, use of the gym, and pool.  That's $14,400 a year.  Granted, the Westin is a resort and it's in a climate that requires more maintenance than in the Northeast.  Even if you tripled our maintenance, that would be $43,200 a year or $830.00 per week.  I find it very interesting that many timeshares in Aruba that are just as nice (if not nicer) as the Westin charge that amount.  Starwood constantly says we must treat this like a condomium and all owners share the costs.  Well, I think $830 a week is more like what it should be.  That should have sufficient replacement funds for major repairs like a roof.  Now let's get to major upgrades.  If you double the MF's for three years that's $1,660.00 per week or $86,320 per unit.  At the Westin, it's now $3,400 per week for a 2-bedroom premium or a pool villa.  Annually, that's $176,800.00  I don't know about you, but it doesn't take that much to do the upgrades and maintain the unit.  The $64,000 question is where is the money going that's not being used for actual maintenance.  Who's pockets is it going into? 

If we are to be run like a condominum, we should have a board, composed mostly of owners who can control costs in the best interests of the owners.  Part of what we're paying for is the costs of the Westin Hotel, which is now down to about 90 rooms after Bay Vista was put into place.  

Regards,
GeneNWendy




DavidnRobin said:


> So...  I wrote a strongly worded email via MSC to WSJ Association Management concerning the 25% increase in base MFs (as well as a doubling of MFs over a 5 year period) - as well as the question regarding Owner deliquent MFs and defaults and the burden to WSJ Owners where we take all the loss but not the gain (e.g. villas being put into a rental pool that only benefits WSJ/SVN) - this was their response:
> *******
> 
> Thank you for contacting Association Management.
> 
> The Board of Directors and the Association reviews and analyzes all avenues to achieve the lowest possible dues increase. Their goal is to bill out fees without sacrificing the level of amenity that you as an owner have come to expect. They must also ensure the resort continues to meet certain brand standards.
> 
> Unfortunately many items in the annual operating budget are not fixed expenses and are outside of the control of the Board of Directors. Many of these items include: utilities, insurance, and supplier cost. In addition, the cost of business in the islands has increased which has created a big impact in the amount billed annually.
> 
> As you know your Association has been adversely impacted by the current economy. The increase in owner delinquency has created a shortfall in the Association's cash flow. The Board will continue to reinforce collection efforts to recover lost funds. Those owners who default on their payment will loose their usage benefits for the year. We will also continue to send delinquent notifications and interest and late fee will be assessed to delinquent accounts. In addition the Board of Directors has implemented cost savings initiatives to minimize any shortfall which includes energy audits, compact-fluorescent bulbs, and a reduction in the maximum hours hourly employees can work. A working capital reserve fund is being added to insure that the association doesn't run out of funds in the future. Unfortunately reserve funds cannot be used to make up for a deficiency in operating funds.
> 
> The Association will also consider different alternatives to gain revenue such as unit rental.
> 
> Being a condominium, all Owners share the responsibility for ensuring that the Association meets these obligations. As the economy improves and delinquencies eventually decline, allowances will be re-evaluated for a potential reduction. However for now, we must all share in ensuring expenses are fully paid and uncollectible accounts provisioned.
> 
> We hope this gives you a better understanding of the situation. If you have any other questions please feel free to contacting Association Management at 1-800-729-8246/407-903-4670.
> 
> Sincerely,
> XXXX _{Note: I removed name since I am unclear about policy here...}_
> SVO Association Management


----------



## DavidnRobin

I agree.  I sent you a PM.
I am less perturbed about the refurbish (because our villa needed it), but more interested in 2 main issues (for all of my SVO VOIs):  Is the MF monies being spent wisely and in an accountable manner (transparency), and importantly - for the deliquent owner VOIs - transparency on reimbursment to the HOA for SVO/SVN/WSJ usage (rent, SVN-II-RCI-SPG exchange, hotel-TS switching).

The last point is where I see major issues to legal action for SVO/WSJ.
I know that Tom's focus is in regards to the refurbish vote - if that gets SVO/WSJ to listen - so be it.  But on the surface - most Owners wanted a refurbish, but due to the archiac proxy system - it couldn't get done (and it needed to) - if they did not spend efficiently, the that is an issue.  But the bigger issue for me is too force transparency in Opertaions and Processes (for all of our VOIs).


----------



## whitebeachsand

GeneNWendy said:


> At the Westin, it's now $3,400 per week for a 2-bedroom premium or a pool villa.  Annually, that's $176,800.00  I don't know about you, but it doesn't take that much to do the upgrades and maintain the unit.  The $64,000 question is where is the money going that's not being used for actual maintenance.  Who's pockets is it going into?



To me this is the big issue.  In this economic downturn there have been an unbeleivable number of ponzi schemes and corruption unconvered throughout the US mostly in the realestate sector.  In my rural area grain dealers were running a multi-million dollar fraud ring that would have carried on if it were not for the economic fallout.  Google ponzi schemes and you won't beleive all the "bad" realestate deals going on accross the country.  Too many to report.  I'm in finace and realestate.  The numbers just don't add up.  Look at the quote above.  When it's somewhat reasonable and customary we just look away.  But when fees just double over a short period of time it just doesn't add up.  If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat it must be a rat.  My suspicion is that someone somwhere is making a killing on this thing.  The whole system of timeshares make this a fertile hotbed for fraud, greed, and corruption.  While I want to keep this somewhat short I don't beleive us filing a lawsuit against the SVO is a great idea as we would essentially be suing ourselves.  We need to have SVO audited by either us as a community or have the feds step in.  My initial reaction is that we would be best to flood a federal agency in the state where SVO operates and force somekind of audit.  That audit then would unfold as necessary.  I know the FBI has been the investigating agency of some realestate fraud cases.


----------



## kdrew

I would be glad to share the experience I had with Equivest/Fairfield/Wyhdam at Bluebeard's Castle in St. Thomas, USVI. I spent over 6 years fighting and eventually recovered a settlement for owners on the order of $23M which is leading the refurbishment of the resort now.

See http://bluebeards-castle.com/news/news/weekly.html

e-mail me at kenneth_drew@hotmail.com and we can swap phone numbers off list.


Good luck.....


Ken


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Tax Info/Update*

Seems like the HOA BOD is finally getting active... {I wonder why...?)

Following is an email copy regarding USVI Taxes:
{hurry up and wait... - or in the USVI - slow down and wait...}

*****
 Dear Virgin Grand Villas-St. John Owner,

As you may be aware, since 2006 the United States Virgin Islands (USVI) has not billed taxpayers for their 2006 and subsequent years’ property taxes. The intent of this letter is to inform and update you regarding your property taxes at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas.

On December 23, 2009, the USVI adopted new rules for computing the value of timeshare real property. These new rules are a result of negotiations between the USVI Government and the American Resort Development Association (ARDA) and are estimated to save USVI timeshare owners a total of $1.5 million in property taxes each year.

There are a number of items that must be completed before the USVI will resume property tax billings. One of these items includes the resolution of a pending court case on this issue. Also, the Tax Assessor’s office is working to develop an implementation strategy for issuing new bills and creating a schedule of when taxpayers are responsible for payment of their 2006 and subsequent years’ property taxes. We anticipate the USVI Government will establish a series of due dates for the property tax bills from 2006 to present. Finally, there have been some recent personnel changes impacting the Board of Tax Review and, while not official, it is likely the USVI Government will not have the opportunity to assemble a new board and issue the property tax bills until late 2010 or possibly early 2011.

Based on this recent information, it is our recommendation that you continue to delay paying your property tax bills until further notice. We will keep you informed of further developments regarding these taxes.

If you have questions or need to speak to an association management agent, please call us at 1.800.729.8246 or direct at 407.903.4670.


----------



## DavidnRobin

FYI - and while I am at it... here is a link discussing WSJ and a recent mailing from the WSJ HOA BOD regarding the refurbish:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115606


----------



## ocdb8r

DavidnRobin said:


> Based on this recent information, it is our recommendation that you continue to delay paying your property tax bills until further notice. We will keep you informed of further developments regarding these taxes.



I am not a WSJ owner but I have looked at and considered resale here several times...I am curious, does this statement mean that WSJ owners have been receiving tax bills since 2006 and some of them may have been paying those bills?

The main thing that has been holding me back is settlement of this issue as the outstanding taxes could be quite hefty.  I am wondering if there might be sellers out there that have just been paying the tax so I wouldn't necessarily have to wait to jump on a good deal if I saw one.


----------



## DavidnRobin

That is correct - someone is ging to be on the hook for taxes all the way back to (and including) 2006.  be aware that at the last assessment (which was unsuccessful) the predicted increase in TS tax bill for STJ was going to double.  For example - a 2Bd/3Ba TH (week 23 - Hillside) was going from $140 to $280 per year.

I had the sellers compensate me for the back taxes in my purchase - since I trusted them - we did our own deed transfer - with the help of a USVI Attorney (Tom Bolt and Assoc)


----------



## kdrew

*ARDA is a joke!!!!!!!!*

ARDA did not help owners. They helped developers. Owners are getting screwed by the USVI as units for week #12 are taxed at rates higher than week #11, for example. There is no sense in what was done and ARDA is funded by developers, works for developers, and does not care about timeshare owners.

Why do I say this? They did nothing to help owners at Bluebeard's Castle even though they were begged to look into the situation. You see, timeshare owners don't fund their existence...........

Do not believe a word regarding property taxes on the USVI..........  

Ken




DavidnRobin said:


> Seems like the HOA BOD is finally getting active... {I wonder why...?)
> 
> Following is an email copy regarding USVI Taxes:
> {hurry up and wait... - or in the USVI - slow down and wait...}
> 
> *****
> Dear Virgin Grand Villas-St. John Owner,
> 
> As you may be aware, since 2006 the United States Virgin Islands (USVI) has not billed taxpayers for their 2006 and subsequent years’ property taxes. The intent of this letter is to inform and update you regarding your property taxes at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas.
> 
> On December 23, 2009, the USVI adopted new rules for computing the value of timeshare real property. These new rules are a result of negotiations between the USVI Government and the American Resort Development Association (ARDA) and are estimated to save USVI timeshare owners a total of $1.5 million in property taxes each year.
> 
> There are a number of items that must be completed before the USVI will resume property tax billings. One of these items includes the resolution of a pending court case on this issue. Also, the Tax Assessor’s office is working to develop an implementation strategy for issuing new bills and creating a schedule of when taxpayers are responsible for payment of their 2006 and subsequent years’ property taxes. We anticipate the USVI Government will establish a series of due dates for the property tax bills from 2006 to present. Finally, there have been some recent personnel changes impacting the Board of Tax Review and, while not official, it is likely the USVI Government will not have the opportunity to assemble a new board and issue the property tax bills until late 2010 or possibly early 2011.
> 
> Based on this recent information, it is our recommendation that you continue to delay paying your property tax bills until further notice. We will keep you informed of further developments regarding these taxes.
> 
> If you have questions or need to speak to an association management agent, please call us at 1.800.729.8246 or direct at 407.903.4670.


----------



## ocdb8r

kdrew said:


> ARDA did not help owners. They helped developers. Owners are getting screwed by the USVI as units for week #12 are taxed at rates higher than week #11, for example. There is no sense in what was done and ARDA is funded by developers, works for developers, and does not care about timeshare owners.
> 
> Why do I say this? They did nothing to help owners at Bluebeard's Castle even though they were begged to look into the situation. You see, timeshare owners don't fund their existence...........
> 
> Do not believe a word regarding property taxes on the USVI..........
> 
> Ken



I have mentioned before...I think there is a real need for an "Interval Owners" PAC.  ARDA is exactly what the name suggests...it acts in the interests of the resort developers.  That SVO automatically adds a $5 contribution to the group is absurd.

In my opinion NOW is the time for a bit of organization on our part.  It's not something that would be easy, but there are a lot of resources that I think are going wasted.  The surge of lawsuits against developers provides us with an opportunity to expose how far many have gone to extract money from our pockets.


----------



## DavidnRobin

kdrew said:


> Do not believe a word regarding property taxes on the USVI..........
> 
> Ken



I believe what you mean here as 'not believing a word' in that... do not believe that WSJ/SVO/ARDA is telling you about their efforts/success to keep property taxes down.  The USVI Gov't is not only screwing (or intends to) TS owners (like Maui), but also property owners on STJ (so a double whammy for WSJ Owners).  Whether ARDA kept them from being tripled or doubled - we will likely never know... but bottom-line is that they are going up... I expect them to double... (IMO, IMO, IMO)

What I wrote is regarding property taxes is correct (as well as the facts stated in the email from WSJ/SVO.
They haven't been paid since 2005 and due from 2006 on - will become due at some point (although I do believe the letter that it will take some time if my interpretation of USVI newspapers accounts is correct - which I read at least weekly - and they have series of lawsuits and US Govt intervention to deal with).  And do not send your property taxes to the USVI Gov't until this is resolved.

I do think that WSJ has a reason to attempt to counter the proposed property tax since they are still selling VOIs at the BV section (as well as some for the VG section) - and they own a large portion as well.


----------



## Tia

DavidnRobin said:


> I.....
> I do think that WSJ has a reason to attempt to counter the proposed property tax since they are still selling VOIs at the BV section (as well as some for the VG section) - and they own a large portion as well.



Maybe it's why your maint. fees are increasing to help pay their taxes?


----------



## DavidnRobin

Tia said:


> Maybe it's why your maint. fees are increasing to help pay their taxes?



I wish that were the case, but... Taxes are paid outside of the MFs, and taxes have not paid since 2005. (2006 taxes were billed at one time, but a court order rescinded the billing as they were illegal).


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Tax Article*

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17643913

Still at a stalemate...


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Article on New Restaurant at WSJ (Cruz Bay Prime)*

http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2010/02/cru-prime-review.html#more

Cruz Bay Prime replaces C&B at the WSJ


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Take action against Starwood for their outrageous maintenance fees*

As many of you know, the owners at the Westin St. John are planning a class-action suit against Starwood for breaking many laws and using the owners of it's Virgin Grand Villas as ATM machines. We are also planning to launch a negative PR campaign against Starwood. The last thing they want is for their reputation to be tarnished, especially with the FTC and SEC watching over them in these post Bernie Madoff days. I suggest that people with rising fees at all Starwood resorts look at the string we created in Yahoo Finance. See below how to access it. Propective buyers of Starwood stock will read this. This can only hurt them. Maybe enough of this will get them to change their ways with respect to their timeshare owners.


I posted the string in yahoofinance.com. It would be helpful to let the folks know on the website that they can go to www.yahoofinance.com. Get a stock quote for HOT(Starwood's exchange acronym), which will bring up the Starwood trade history and message board on the left side. Click on that and look for the string "possible legal against starwood" and post a comment.


----------



## Tia

Did you see this one?

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17637390
 a July article on this topic.

Tina





DavidnRobin said:


> http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17643913
> 
> Still at a stalemate...


----------



## TimW1

I am getting confused.  My apologies.  To the topic of MF, how many years were the increased assessment fees supposed to be according to everyone's letter from the association?

I finally found my letter back from October 2008 and it states that they were only temporarily going to be raised for 3 years.  Am I correct or did someone get something different?

Believe me I am more upset about them going ahead with the refurbishment without the 2/3 vote necessary and costs that weren't transparent to all of us before they just went ahead with the process.

Also, to twist the knife in our side a little more.  The MF this year was $200 more than last year.  At least for a 2BR TH.


----------



## TimW1

*News article about taxes*

Government may offer a deal on property taxes

Governor John de Jongh told the VI Senate  the government could be out of money by June.  One way to weather the storm is to issue property tax bills.

The Territory's chief executive told the Senate a deficit of $170 million is looming.  To reduce it, de Jongh said, there will also have to be expense cutting and a new $100 million bond issue.

He said there will not be "drastic actions like government-wide layoffs, pay cuts, or furloughs," according to the Virgin Islands Daily News.  Which is of little comfort for tens of thousands of unemployed Islanders and their former employers.

The Governor also finally cried 'Uncle' on the property tax.  While the territory has not collected property taxes for four years, hoping to levy them at grossly higher values set by a VI-wide reassessment, the need for dollars is critical.  But Federal courts have again told the government its tax appeal system is inadequate and, until it's fixed, the new valuations can't be used.

So the Governor told the Senate he wants to issue tax bills for 2006 and 2007 at the old rates.  This could bring in an estimated $80 million. For many property owners, the difference between the old and the new valuations is thousands of dollars.


----------



## DavidnRobin

TimW said:


> I am getting confused.  My apologies.  To the topic of MF, how many years were the increased assessment fees supposed to be according to everyone's letter from the association?
> 
> I finally found my letter back from October 2008 and it states that they were only temporarily going to be raised for 3 years.  Am I correct or did someone get something different?
> 
> Believe me I am more upset about them going ahead with the refurbishment without the 2/3 vote necessary and costs that weren't transparent to all of us before they just went ahead with the process.
> 
> Also, to twist the knife in our side a little more.  The MF this year was $200 more than last year.  At least for a 2BR TH.



3 year special assessment - we are in year 2 (one more payment due with the2011 MFs)

The base MF for 2010 was ~$2000 for a 2Bd TH - It was ~$1600 in 2009 (base MFs w/o SA) not $2000 (around a 25% increase.


----------



## TimW1

DavidnRobin said:


> 3 year special assessment - we are in year 2 (one more payment due with the2011 MFs)
> 
> The base MF for 2010 was ~$2000 for a 2Bd TH - It was ~$1600 in 2009 (base MFs w/o SA) not $2000 (around a 25% increase.





2008 Year Balance Details

Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 1,521.17
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 109.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
Sub-Total
Total Prior Year Charges 		  $ 1,630.17






2009 Year Balance Details
Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 2,465.82
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 109.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
Sub-Total
Total Prior Year Charges 		  $ 2,574.82 



2010 (Current) Year Charges
Maintenance Fee(s) 		  $ 2,866.05
Tax - If Applicable 		  $ 0.00
Membership Fee - If Applicable 		  $ 109.00
Other* 		  $ 0.00
Interest 		  $ 0.00
Late Fees 		  $ 0.00
Sub-Total
Current Year Charges 		  $ 2,975.05
Less Payments*** 		  $ 2,975.05

2011 Projected Fees for Next Year  	 	  $ 2,975.05


Sorry about that, David.

In the letter it stated back in October 2008:

"A Fiscal Balance
The current enrichments are being funded with the association's capital reserves, which were infused several years ago with a $1.2 million contribution from Starwood Vacation Ownership. To complete the additional sought-after restorations, a short-term, one-time increase in maintenance fees is needed. This increase, an *average of $625 per vacation ownership week, will affect your 2009, 2010 and 2011 maintenance fees."
*


The word "average" I guess is loosely used and our increase not only went up from 25% but up to 45% for two years.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Hi Tim - in the letter - they are talking about the Special Assessment - not the base MFs (w/o SA).  I found error in their math in this letter - and thought I posted this a while ago.  I have a spreadsheet that breaks down the MF bill by year at home. I will dig it up and post.

Also recall that in one of the years they added a doubling of the replacement reserve (pre-SA) to the MFs


----------



## DavidnRobin

*New GM at WSJ*

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com/

whats the over/under for his stay - 8 months?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Lt Gov recommends Prop Tax at 1998 rate*

for 2006-2007

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17644326


----------



## DavidnRobin

For 2Bd Townhouse - increase in base MFs (not special assessments) - w/o SVN fee

2005 $1,052.87 
2006 $1,204.13 - 14.4%
2007 $1,322.98 - 9.9%
2008 $1,521.17 - 15.0%
2009 $1,600.65 - 5.2%
2010 $2,000.88 - 25.0%
{SA = ~$865 over 3 years - 2009 to 2011}

I think it was the 2008 MF when there was an inclusion of a doubling of Replacement Reserves.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Tax Info*

http://ltg.gov.vi/press-releases/lt...tions-for-the-payment-of-real-property-t.html

I am all in favor for this proposal since it will be at the 1998 tax rate - as long as they do not come back and ask for more tax (which is not clear) after they clear up their mess with regards to fair taxation.


----------



## Vinx

*Lawsuit?*

Is there any news of the lawsuit to be filed against Starwood? As month long owners since the 90s we are now being clobbered with the MFs. I was just sent this link and have joined the forum.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Vinx said:


> Is there any news of the lawsuit to be filed against Starwood? As month long owners since the 90s we are now being clobbered with the MFs. I was just sent this link and have joined the forum.



Gene (GeneNWendy) has been posting both her and on the Starwood Complaints Forum

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=880207#post880207


----------



## whitebeachsand

*Lawsuit or No Lawsuit*

This whole lawsuit deal has me real concerned.  The value of our weeks has plummeted to about zero.  Recently on ebay a 1 BR sold for $1600.  A 2BR sold through a local realtor for $6,000.

I am in the realestate development world.  Trust me I am as upset as most of you are.  I feel like the Westin has not looked out for the owners best interests and have fleeced us financially.  

This whole lawsuit idea only works if it is carried out.  SVO isn't going to change anything until there is a real lawsuit that has merit.  Until then they are going to laugh at us all the way to the bank.  In the meantime all the threats are doing nothing but hurting our ability to remarket and rent our properties.  If no lawsuit is ever filed we have only hurt ourselves and our resorts reputation. 

To those who are screaming lawsuit I support you if it your true intent and will follow throught.  If however you are just puffing your chest in hopes SVO will get scared you are only hurting yourself and other timeshare owners.  Going after SVO is a monumental task and will either take serious bank or an attorney who likes big challenges.

Good luck and when the gun goes off let's just hope we are not shooting ourselves in the foot.


----------



## DavidnRobin

whitebeachsand said:


> This whole lawsuit deal has me real concerned.  The value of our weeks has plummeted to about zero.  Recently on ebay a 1 BR sold for $1600.  A 2BR sold through a local realtor for $6,000.
> 
> I am in the realestate development world.  Trust me I am as upset as most of you are.  I feel like the Westin has not looked out for the owners best interests and have fleeced us financially.
> 
> This whole lawsuit idea only works if it is carried out.  SVO isn't going to change anything until there is a real lawsuit that has merit.  Until then they are going to laugh at us all the way to the bank.  In the meantime all the threats are doing nothing but hurting our ability to remarket and rent our properties.  If no lawsuit is ever filed we have only hurt ourselves and our resorts reputation.
> 
> To those who are screaming lawsuit I support you if it your true intent and will follow throught.  If however you are just puffing your chest in hopes SVO will get scared you are only hurting yourself and other timeshare owners.  Going after SVO is a monumental task and will either take serious bank or an attorney who likes big challenges.
> 
> Good luck and when the gun goes off let's just hope we are not shooting ourselves in the foot.



..... sorry, but I am not following.... you are saying do not persue unless you are successful on getting a postive result - otherwise do not persue.... sort of a conundrum now isn't it?  what's your solution?

I have little interest in a lawsuit either, but willing to support if it gets SVO's attention, What we need is HOA transparency - which can only happen with Owners on the HOA that can champion this (just like all other SVO HOA BODs).


----------



## J&JFamily

DavidnRobin said:


> ..... sorry, but I am not following.... you are saying do not persue unless you are successful on getting a postive result - otherwise do not persue.... sort of a conundrum now isn't it?  what's your solution?
> 
> I have little interest in a lawsuit either, but willing to support if it gets SVO's attention, What we need is HOA transparency - which can only happen with Owners on the HOA that can champion this (just like all other SVO HOA BODs).



I couldn't agree more!  Just like our government (promise I won't take sides and talk politics), the HOA boards and timeshare developers need to be transparent.  A small percentage of owners posting on TUG about potential lawsuits has VERY LITTLE to do with the falling values of timeshares.  If you want to lay blame you need to look at Starwood and the HOAs.  If my salary could go up at the rate that my MFs are going up, with no apparent end in sight, I would not worry too much about the increase in MFs.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*A lawsuit is the last straw*

I couldn't agree more that the HOA boards and timeshare developers need to be transparent.  Unfortunately, they haven't been this way at the Westin St. John, and from what I understand many other timeshares both inside and outside of Starwood as well.  

Several things have a lot to do with the falling value of Timeshares.  Currently, I am only speaking from experience at the Westin St. John.  In the by-laws, there is an amendment that basically allows the developer to maintain a majority control of the Board until such time as the developer sells their very last unit.  That means that the board of directors will be composed of a majority of Starwood employees and not timeshare owners until their last unit is sold.  Guess what? That will never happen, because Starwood will personally hold onto at least one unit to maintain control.  

As it stands now, the 2 board members who happen to be villa owners were hand-picked by Starwood and effectively act as puppets for them.  Currently, the Virgin Grand Villas at the Westin St. John are approximately 90% owner occupied, yet Starwood maintains control of the Board (3 of the 5 board members are Starwood employees).  I should mention that an amendment of the by-laws requires an approval of 2/3 of all owners.  I truly doubt that 2/3 of the owners voted in favor of this.  This rule about control of the Board was not in the original by-laws set up by Virgin Grand Villas in 1989.  

Additionally, under the current by-laws (I doubt this changed from the original set) major upgrades to the villas require a 2/3 approval from the owners.  Back in 2006, this was put to a vote, and the owners overwhelmingly voted "No".  In 2007, it was put to a vote again, but there weren't enough votes, so there wasn't a quorum.  In 2008, the board of directors went around their own by-laws to approve the upgrades.  Instead of having a line item on the maintenance bill that said "Assessment for Upgrades" (this would have been the case if the owners voted "yes"), the Operating Assessment (i.e. - Maintenance Fees) went up substantially between 2008 and 2009 (over a 50% increase).  It went up even further in 2010, because the developer withdrew his operating subsidy.  

Additionally, a bad debt reserve had to be added in 2010 because of so many defaults in 2009.  Even if the MF's never went up in 2009, defaults would have gone up with the downturn in the economy.  Now couple that with the substantial increase in MF's and the rate of default has gone up exponentially.  To add insult to injury, the fees increased even further in 2010 because of the good paying owners had to effectively subsidize those that didn't pay.  The upgrade costs will continue through 2011 and in theory should go down, but I don't believe it.  They are supposed to replace the roofs once the upgrades are done.  

Starwood uses the excuse that the good paying owners effectively have to pay the cost of running the place because it operates like a condominium.  They claim to be locking out those owners that don't pay MF's and that they would return the money to the association if they rented those units out.  Well guess what, Starwood won't show us where the money is going.  They won't release the owner's list to us either under the premise of privacy.  BTW, the names are public records and can be found in the Recorder of the Deeds office in St. Thomas as well as the Tax Accessor's Office in St. John.  I should mention that the original by-laws call for the owner's to have access to all detail financials and to the owner's list.  

I could go on forever, but if we had a board that would work with the owner's to go over the budget, we might be able to control costs.  However, they are keeping everything quiet and running the timeshare like a dictatorship where we have to simply accept outrageously higher MF's year after year.  In order to increase the value of our timeshare, we need to take control of our board and most likely hire a new management company.  This was done successfully at Bluebeard's Castle in St. Thomas and their MF's have gone down significantly.  Furthermore, a South Carolina law firm came in on contingency and got approx $16 million in damages for them, which were used for much-needed refurbishments.

Unless Starwood is willing to work with the owners of Virgin Grand Villas, we will have no choice but to sue to change the by-laws and to get the ownership records (if we have to, we'll get the records on our own but it will be a very difficult task) and detailed accounting information.  Once the case is under way, a judge will order discovery and a forensic accountant will come in and review the records.  If there is any sign of wrong-doing, Starwood could get in big trouble, being a public-traded company subject to the regulations of the FTC and SEC.  Look what happened to Enron and Bernard Madoff.

The bottom line is that a lawsuit has a lot to do with falling values of the timeshares.  The values are so low because they are unsellable.  Hopefully we can correct some of these issues by pressure from politicians and these government agencies.  However, if that doesn't do the trick we will have no choice but to sue.  Once the owners have control of the board and have the ability to hire their own management company, costs will go down, bringing MF's down and hence increase the value of the timeshares.

In theory you are correct, a lawsuit has little to do with the falling values of timeshares.  Unfortunately, it may be the last mechanism available for the owners to take control of it and increase the value of them.







J&JFamily said:


> I couldn't agree more!  Just like our government (promise I won't take sides and talk politics), the HOA boards and timeshare developers need to be transparent.  A small percentage of owners posting on TUG about potential lawsuits has VERY LITTLE to do with the falling values of timeshares.  If you want to lay blame you need to look at Starwood and the HOAs.  If my salary could go up at the rate that my MFs are going up, with no apparent end in sight, I would not worry too much about the increase in MFs.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ VG Owners Unite!*

Attention WSJ VG (Hillside) Owners:

There is a concerted effort to get 1-2 Owners on the WSJ VG HOA BOD at the upcoming elections that will represent the concerns of WSJ Owners. The intent is to place knowledgable and responsible Owners who will work on creating transparency for all concerned Owners in the dealings of the WSJ HOA within the SVO system, and represent Owners in a fair and balanced manner.

If you are a concerned WSJ VG Owner, please contact Gene (Tugger GeneNWendy) at cruisingemj@gmail.com to get on the WSJ VG Owners list, and to find out more about the approaches that are being taken in pursuit of our goals: 1) Transparency, 2) Accountability and 3) Fair Representation.

We cannot do this alone as this is a large undertaking against a system that is skewed towards SVO control of the WSJ HOA.  Please join our efforts!

Thanks,
David

(DeniseM - sorry about the double post - but as you are aware - it is time to take action before our MFs double again...)


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Property Tax Update*

As read from the "News of St John" blog
http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/


*Property tax bill coming in July*
The first of two well-overdue property tax bills is likely to be in a mailbox near you in July.  So said the territory's Tax Assessor, Bernadette Williams, in remarks to the Virgin Islands Daily News.

The bill in July, at the 1998 rate, will be for the year 2006.  The 2007 bill can be expected by New Year's.

The bills will be sent after the VI Senate approved the Governor's request for their issuance.  What the Senate did not approve was the John de Jongh's plea for the OK to do a issue for $110 million.  The money would be used, essentially, for government operating expenses.  

Because the Territory has not collected property taxes for four years, due to federal court objections, the Virgin Islands government is darn near broke.


http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17644813

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17644944


----------



## DavidnRobin

bump and link to beaches of STJ...
{exactly why we go every year - we would never get bored of this...}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7US5_7pp0U&feature=player_embedded#


----------



## ginja

*Slightly off topic but a St. John Question*

Does anyone know when they raised the points necessary to stay in the WSJ 3 Bedroom Pool Side Villa from 148,000 to 196,000 for exchangers? I'm considering my own legal challenge in that, this trade what we were sold on and the primary reason we bought our TS in Maui in 2006 (preconstruction WKORV - N) Our home resort was not ready for us to stay in until 2008. So I'm wondering: did they sell us on a bill of goods that had already changed or would never be available to us by the time our TS ownership really (stay ability) began in 2008? I would like to do a discovery and find out when corporate knew they were raising the SVO point exchange for the large WSJ 3 bedroom pool  hillside villas specifically because if had been decided prior to our closing escrow then wouldn't it fraud or bait and switch? I know they say they have the right to change their program any time to whatever they want in the fine print but if it is already been decided that it will be raised and they are making sales based on outdated info....you get my point.


----------



## DeniseM

ginja - I fully understand why your are upset, but if you position is that the sales person lied to you or misled you, I don't think that will work, because the Starwood contracts state that verbal promises/statements are not binding.


----------



## ginja

I'm basing my possible legal angle on the fact that I had printed material in my owner book (the glossy one with the pictures) showing the St. John layout configurations and point requirements. So this is a Starwood printed sales piece. I've found out the hard way that they have small print in the legal part that states they can change whatever / whenever but if they are showing me printed material that I am basing my purchase on and it has already been decided by corporate that those levels won't / don't exist when I am finally able to use the SVO exchange is that fraud or bait and switch. I know it is probably somtheing best answered by a lawyer but I would need to know when it was they changed the point requirements to build my case.


----------



## James1975NY

ginja said:


> I'm basing my possible legal angle on the fact that I had printed material in my owner book (the glossy one with the pictures) showing the St. John layout configurations and point requirements. So this is a Starwood printed sales piece. I've found out the hard way that they have small print in the legal part that states they can change whatever / whenever but if they are showing me printed material that I am basing my purchase on and it has already been decided by corporate that those levels won't / don't exist when I am finally able to use the SVO exchange is that fraud or bait and switch. I know it is probably somtheing best answered by a lawyer but I would need to know when it was they changed the point requirements to build my case.



Would you consider legal action if the three-bedrooms were still 148,100 in St. John and they increased your Maui property to 196,000? That was a rhetorical question....

Believe it or not, while you see this as a negative impact to you, the fact that Starwood has the flexibility to manage the StarOption assignments in the "club" is a good thing. As time passes and more resorts are added to the "club", there will come a time where the system has to be re-evaluated as it relates to seasonality, demand, supply etc. This is one of those adjustments. I know it does not feel good in your situation but there will be necessary changes like this from time to time to keep the program whole.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Hi ginja -  It states in the CCRs that the SOs for a VOI can be altered.  There was a SO revision for WSJ -VG (Hillside) - that includes the 3Bd pool villas - in 2008 starting in 2009 (IIRC).  As a WSJ-VG Owner - I an glad that they increased the SO requirement for WSJ-VG because my 2Bd/3Ba Townhouse (June) was only worth 67.1K SOs (which would only get a studio in HI), and was increased to 81K SO (which would allow for a 1Bd in HI).  Not much better, but at least something...

Obviously the reasoning was to bring WSJ-VG in-line with other resorts, but especially with the newly built WSJ-BV (Bay Vista) - all 2Bd and 3Bd villas - as well as the other 3Bd villas in SVN (like HRA).  Essentially creating a top value of 196K SOs and working down from there.  It was not done as to screw non-WSJ Owners (bait and switch by SVO/SVN) or hamper their ability to get into WSJ (VG or BV) since that is actually still open to you - just not for a 3Bd during prime season.  Would you even be able to get a 3Bd pool villa in prime season as a SVN exchange? There are certainly few (if any) ever reported here on TUG - which only represents a small fraction of informed Owners, but would have a high liklihood of hearing about it.  Look at RedWeek - those villas are renting for >$5000 - a 3Bd villa owner (premium season) that allowed ther villa to get into SVN would have little regard for their units value.

Regardless, it would be a challenging lawsuit on many levels... 

more to the point is that SVO sales lied when they said that you can exchange into WSJ or HRA - and made it sound easy - when in fact - it is not (unless you want to go off-season).

added - the actual date of the revised SO is listed in the thread somewhere (but you would have to search for it - it was likely me who posted it).

and... James is correct.

good luck


----------



## Loriannf

*Look at it from the point of view of a WSJ pool villa owner*

Before they changed the StarOptions, our "middle" season 3 bedroom pool villa weeks were worth 98,700 staroptions; we couldn't get a two bedroom in Hawaii (148,000) for our 3 bedroom pool villa.  In fact, our 3 bedroom WSJ pool villa couldn't get HRA or even SHERATON VISTANA VILLAGES ORLANDO 3 bedrooms!

So even if you had the necessary StarOptions, you probably wouldn't have gotten WSJ because hardly anyone deposited their week into SVO because there were no "equitable" exchanges.  Now our StarOptions are slightly more equitable at 125,000, which will get us same season 3 bedroom trades at HRA and Vistana - BUT STILL WON'T GET ME A 2 BEDROOM IN HAWAII AT ANY TIME OF THE YEAR!!!!!.

Not a problem, though, because I can make private/direct exchanges for Hawaii should I desire to, as so many of you that purchased in Hawaii now want to go to St. John.

Buy where you want to go.  Thankfully, we hardly ever want to go anywhere other than WSJ


----------



## jarta

DavodandRobin,   ...   "more to the point is that SVO sales lied when they said that you can exchange into WSJ or HRA - and made it sound easy - when in fact - it is not (unless you want to go off-season)."

No salesman says that you can exchange for the exact same sized unit in the same season.  People hear what they want to hear and then accuse salesmen of lying.

Listening is an art.  You and Loriannef and anyone else at St. John always had the ability to trade anywhere else in the SVN system.  You just couldn't trade 3-br for 3-br at Harborside in the same season you owned.  Now you can.  

But, if you own a 3-br at St. John in hurricane or summer season, you still can't get a 2-br in Hawaii using Staroptions (neither can a 3-br hurricane or summer owner at Harborside).  You can still reserve in Hawaii.  But, only a 1-br.

St. John is no different than anywhere else.  While size does matter (lol!) the season owned is just as important for SVN trading.  

Even with Starwood upping the Staroptions at St. John (to the consternation of ginja, who wants to sue), you guys with a ticket to Paradise still don't seem to be very happy.  lol!   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

...not sure I should bother (I usually pass because I do not need my words turned around on me...), but... SVO salespeople do claim that you will be able to exchage your VOI via SVN (same size or not)  into other resorts AND do not give you the caveat that this is hard to do for resorts like WSJ and HRA - how do I know this?  Because they have used this sales technique on me more than once AND I have heard them say this to others (many times to many people that go through a TS presentation).  They not only use these verbal lies, but others as well - as documented here on TUG many times.  It has nothing to do with the 'art of listening' it has to do with the 'art of believing (or not believing) and the 'art of researching' which brought me (and many others) to TUG.

but that is not the point (whether SVO salespeople are truthful or not - we know the answer to that...) - because in the sales contract there is a clause (as Denise stated - and as nodge pointed out many years ago - which I have in turn used in negotiation) <<<PARAPHRASING>>> that states that anything that was told to you verbally by a salesperson is not enforcable unless explicitly written in the contract.


----------



## jarta

DavidandRobin,   ...   I guess what you disgree with in my prior post is that sometimes people hear what they want to hear.  Twas ever thus - except on TUG.

I will not respond to your next allegation that a claim that "you will be able to exchange your VOI (same size or not) via SVN into other resorts" without adding more is telling a verbal lie.

BTW, I made 2 Staroptions trades into Harborside last year (not using my owned week) and this year I have made 2 Staroptions trades into 3-brs at St. John (Plat. & Hurricane).  I was a little surprised to make 4 trades on 4 phone calls because of all I read on TUG, but it wasn't that hard.    ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

jarta said:


> DavidandRobin,   ...   I guess what you disgree with in my prior post is that sometimes people hear what they want to hear.  Twas ever thus - except on TUG.
> 
> I will not respond to your next allegation that a claim that "you will be able to exchange your VOI (same size or not) via SVN into other resorts" without adding more is telling a verbal lie.
> 
> BTW, I made 2 Staroptions trades into Harborside last year (not using my owned week) and this year I have made 2 Staroptions trades into 3-brs at St. John (Plat. & Hurricane).  I was a little surprised to make 4 trades on 4 phone calls because of all I read on TUG, but it wasn't that hard.    ...   eom



[deleted by me - not worth the effort]
you are my hero - i can only wish i were you


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Google Map of STJ*

came here to post this before I saw ^^^^ (sorry folks - back to the regular program)

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...26631417883397.000481017d544f6ad2d64&t=h&z=14


----------



## Tia

I posted an up date on 4/13 on the Caribbean board re the ts taxes in the USVI-

"Judge Gomez of the U.S. District Court, District of the
Virgin Islands, granted class action status in the ts tax litigation filing by Ira Frank. Trial is set for December 1st of this year with an aggressive
schedule of discovery set. In fact, mediation will take place in May...."



DavidnRobin said:


> ....
> The bill in July, at the 1998 rate, will be for the year 2006.  The 2007 bill can be expected by New Year's.
> 
> ....http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17644813
> 
> http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17644944


----------



## LisaRex

I'd personally love if they recalculated all the SOs to be more in line with MFs, however this is admittedly because I'm paying top dollar to own a resort than everyone loves to trade into.  

Why, oh why, didn't I buy SDO resale so I'd feel savvy instead of foolish?


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> Why, oh why, didn't I buy SDO resale so I'd feel savvy instead of foolish?



there is still time...


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## aristotlenova

David -- as a long time lurker on these pages, I appreciate the insight you've brought to these discussions. And as someone who has been looking at purchasing at WSJ, I gotta ask if I should have my head examined given everything I've read about the unfortunate state of affairs at WSJ. What a mess. So my question to you is what would you consider to be a fair deal/strategy for a 3BR Pool unit during plat or plat plus seasons?

I'm thinking:

a) wait for another 9-12 months and hope tax issues are solved and paid for (at least for 06-07) so as new owner, liability there won't be huge (though at some point, you gotta figure that they'll find a way to assess the new and much higher rates)

b) in that same time period, the special assessment will be paid and done with

So I'm also thinking I can find a deal for 30-35k for one of the 3br pool villas during plat season (at least the realtors think this is about right now) but even if that's true and even if tax issues are somewhat resolved and the SA is paid for -- why the heck should anyone buy in WSJ given the multitude of issues you guys are facing?? I mean we love St. John, but maybe buying something worth 196k SO (Scottsdale?) and trading into WSJ would be a better strategy given the lack of issues and much lower MFs. Thoughts?


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## DavidnRobin

aristotlenova said:


> David -- as a long time lurker on these pages, I appreciate the insight you've brought to these discussions. And as someone who has been looking at purchasing at WSJ, I gotta ask if I should have my head examined given everything I've read about the unfortunate state of affairs at WSJ. What a mess. So my question to you is what would you consider to be a fair deal/strategy for a 3BR Pool unit during plat or plat plus seasons?
> 
> I'm thinking:
> 
> a) wait for another 9-12 months and hope tax issues are solved and paid for (at least for 06-07) so as new owner, liability there won't be huge (though at some point, you gotta figure that they'll find a way to assess the new and much higher rates)
> 
> b) in that same time period, the special assessment will be paid and done with
> 
> So I'm also thinking I can find a deal for 30-35k for one of the 3br pool villas during plat season (at least the realtors think this is about right now) but even if that's true and even if tax issues are somewhat resolved and the SA is paid for -- why the heck should anyone buy in WSJ given the multitude of issues you guys are facing?? I mean we love St. John, but maybe buying something worth 196k SO (Scottsdale?) and trading into WSJ would be a better strategy given the lack of issues and much lower MFs. Thoughts?



It is challenging to feedback because of the many variables.

The biggest consideration for me would be (after having the disposible income of course) :
1) Do I want a 3Bd in WSJ for vacationing with my family ever year, or willing to exchange it for HRA, a 3Bd in WSJ BV (about the only equivalent except maybe WKORV OF - which is only 2Bd - and I am biased here...) - or willing/capable to rent for non-use years?

2) Is having a fixed week (with fixed check-in day) work for staying at WSJ?

3) When do I want this fixed week, and what is the value of that fixed week if I were to sell in the future - or rent? The value difference is dramatic, and of some friendly differences of opinion here.

and if all considerations are accounted for (beyond taxes and MF/HOA issues)

4) What is the best/reasonable price I can find?

as to the price - it really depends on the week (and is it a week you want) - some of the most expensive times are not when we would travel - we prefer quiet (but not dead).  that comes with a downside as to future value.

We personally would love to own a 3Bd pool villa (new ones) - for a minumum of 2 weeks (due to the travel length) if we had enough people to travel to STJ (from here in CA). However, we have challenges to find another couple year in and year out even for our 2Bd - because of busy life schedules here - the cost (and length of trip) - most they would rather go to HI (or Mexico). The Virgin Islands seems like a world away (and it is in some sense).

$35K for a 3Bd in Plat season - really? Jump on it if works out for you.
watch eBay as well - as 3bds have popped up from time to time.

SVN Exchanges appear to be getting easier lately (for off-season at least) - likely due to Bay Vista.

If you are looking for Plat season - you may need to buy there.

The Owners are uniting (we currently have >500 VOIs and growing rapidly), but unfortuanately SVO has total control because they have 4:1 voting rights (per CCRs) as they own ~10% of the VOIs - and unlikely any owner consortium will be able to directly influence proxy voting (but there are many indirect methods being evaluated... including lawsuits).


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## DavidnRobin

*Cruz Bay Prime at WSJ (review from STJ Sun Times)*

http://www.stjohnsuntimes.com/Cruz+Bay+Prime:+Prime+Time

I never went to C&B - maybe we will make it to Cruz Bay Prime.


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## DavidnRobin

*Westin Grand Villas Owners (WSJ Hillside) Ad in STJ Tradewinds*

On Page 13 (bottom) of the April 12-18, 2010 issue of the _St Johns Tradewinds_
http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com/

attached as scanned PDF
excerpt:

*WESTIN VIRGIN GRAND VILLA OWNERS*

- Are you concerned about rapidly escalating maintenence fees and special assessments?
- Are you tired of getting less service for far more money?
- Are you exasperated by the lack of transparency of Starwood's management?
- Are you aware of the loss of resale value because of high maintenance fees?
- Are you aware that owners who pay their fees are being required to pay the unpaid maintenance fees of other owners?

We are villa owners who want to prevent Starwood from making more costly changes without the required owner consent.  We also want to revise the by-laws, which give Starwood complete control of the Board of the owners' association until the very last unit is sold.  And we want to elect independent owner representatives to that Board.

We need the names and e-mail addresses of as many owners as possible because Starwood won't disclose that information.  If you are interested in obtaining more information or participating, please email *Gene Jaspan: CruisingEMJ@gmail.com*


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## DavidnRobin

now... this ^^^^ has got to be a first for SVO Owners.

Please WSJ Owners - contact Gene (Tugger: GeneNWendy) - if you haven't yet.  We have a couple of hundred of owners already that own 500+ VOIs - but need more.  The purpose of this ad is to find owners that otherwise would not know how to contact other owners because SVO-WSJ prevents this from occurring (under privacy act) - so they just get the same old from letter responses back from SVO when they contact the HOA to register complaints.  We believe there are 1000s of WSJ-VG owners (like us) who are fed up with a doubling of their MFs after many years of reasoanble MFs - with a vast decrease in service (what started this thread in the first place). The STJ Tradewinds is a paper that many owners read while at WSJ - and we are using every method possible (e.g. public tax files) to try and contact owners since SVO-WSJ will not cooperate.

Did you know that SVO gets 4:1 voting to every owner vote (in by-laws) and this will continue until all villas are sold - well guess what?!  SVO owns ~10% of units - so thay have ~40% of proxy control.  That essentially gives them a strangle hold on the HOA - 3 of the 5 HOA BOD are Starwood Employees and the other 2 are so-called 'independent owners' are anything but independent.  They claim they are - but their actions (and lack of action) speak otherwise.

This is about a few simple things: gaining control of the HOA - getting real independent Owners on the BOD - and changing the by-laws to give control to the owners who are flipping the bill for this resort (which is part SPG hotel).

It is time for action - it will take a while - and will be a tough battle - but with a concerted effort - hopefully we will get SVO managment to start taking notice and listening.


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## aristotlenova

Interestingly, since we're in St. John right now, I decided to do the SVO presentation tomorrow morning since I'm sure there are a few questions they can answer for me (like why should I buy from you when I can buy resale at 1/3 of the cost). The fact that they offered me 12k SPG points didn't hurt either. I'm certainly going to mention the crazy increases in MF during the conversation and frankly the MFs are the one thing that is really giving me pause about WSJ right now. Having stayed in one of the 3BR pool villas (rental in 43xx) for the past week, at least THIS villa seems to be in pretty good shape. There are a few issues (broken microwave, no housekeeping the entire week, no new towels unless we ask, no one taking out the trash), but on the whole it's been great. 

Let me know if there are any questions I can ask the sales people. Like why they haven't responded to various complaints of people on this board. :rofl:


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## DavidnRobin

aristotlenova said:


> Interestingly, since we're in St. John right now, I decided to do the SVO presentation tomorrow morning since I'm sure there are a few questions they can answer for me (like why should I buy from you when I can buy resale at 1/3 of the cost). The fact that they offered me 12k SPG points didn't hurt either. I'm certainly going to mention the crazy increases in MF during the conversation and frankly the MFs are the one thing that is really giving me pause about WSJ right now. Having stayed in one of the 3BR pool villas (rental in 43xx) for the past week, at least THIS villa seems to be in pretty good shape. There are a few issues (broken microwave, no housekeeping the entire week, no new towels unless we ask, no one taking out the trash), but on the whole it's been great.
> 
> Let me know if there are any questions I can ask the sales people. Like why they haven't responded to various complaints of people on this board. :rofl:



It is not an issue that salepeople will respond to - other than the standard sales response.  We love our villa - and have little issue in that regard.  The sales people purpose is to sell you a TS, keep it on the upside, and nothing more.  I prefer little interaction with staff including house keeping - you do realize that you only get one mid-week tidy right?

I do not attend 'Owners Update' anymore - they just get mad at me.  Like saying what I am doing there since it is a sales presentation - when I say they said it was an Owners Update and why would I buy another TS when I own 5 1/2 weeks already - they usually let me go pretty fast.  12K SPs - Wow! For that I may attend.

I don't bring up issues unless prodded - like a guy at WKORV trying to convince me that WPORV pays for itself in SO-SP conversion alone (he actually yelled at me and left when I shot holes in his fuzzy math with my own).

Let us know if they say anything of interest - unlikely.


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## aristotlenova

So funny thing is they originally offered $200 in "sand dollars" -- and I said not interested. Then they said what about 8k SP? I said, look, I'm SPG Plat, and frankly 8k points just isn't even worth $200. If you wanna do 12k points, I'll attend. At which point she (the concierge lady) told me she'd need to call the manager and call me back. 2 min later she calls back and says, sure, we'll gladly do 12k points. Point being, don't settle for whatever they are offering for these SVO presos -- ask for what you want.


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## jarta

April 12, 2010 article on St. John property taxes:

http://www.stjohnvirealestateblog.com/?p=1612

...   eom


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## aristotlenova

Had a good chat with the sales people at WSJ. Asked a few pointed questions about MF increases with the hillside villas. Their perspective is that under Hyatt the hillside villas were run into the ground and had no reserve fund at all. Upgrades were necessary, the place was in shambles (their words not mine) hence the SA and the massive hike in MFs on the whole. When I asked why there was a SA without owner consent, they said they tried twice to get upgrades made, once not enough votes and second time owners voted it down. While I have no clue the accuracy of any of it, it was nice that they addressed it rather than trying to skirt the issue.  

They also said that was not going to happen with Bay Vista since they are running it differently and a portion of your MFs are already allocated for reserve fund. 

Anyhow, in case anyone is interested in the current pricing, they are selling 2BR + Loft BV villas for $58k during Plat Plus and are offering 200k in SP as incentive. Evidently, that's a $20k discount from what they were selling for last year (don't believe it, but so they say). I was more interested in the pool villas, and for the limited inventory they had, it was $75k for something in week 13 or 14 and 200k in SP. In both cases, I told them resale was like 1/3 of that so it just wasn't compelling. When they tried to dispute that, I happened to have a full listing from the MLS which had every resale on the market at current as well as every sale that has happened over the past 15 months. That ended that part of the convo pretty quickly.


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## jarta

aristotlenova,   ...   I was at WSJ for a week ending April 16th in a 3-br pool villa.  We must have been neighbors.  I was in 4414 - also in very good shape now.

I was told the same story about Hyatt and the developers who went bankrupt (Great Cruz and St. John Virgin Grand Villas Associates), the lack of a reserve fund and the state of the Hillside units before the special assessment.  I don't know how much of it is true.  But, I suspect a lot may be true.  http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/95/95.F3d.291.96-7288.html

"Hyatt was reticent to commit the "Hyatt" and "Hyatt Regency" names to the resort because of the resort's historically poor performance, its financial structure, and *the fact that the quality and consistency of service, facilities, and amenities provided by Great Cruz fell far below Hyatt's quality standards*. Thus, Hyatt believed that there was substantial economic and reputational risk in allowing the resort to be known as a "Hyatt Regency.""

Given the size of the structure, the amount of furniture and the private pool area that must be maintained, I am not shocked by the annual MF for the pool villas.  If they were much less, I tend to believe more the story about the state of the villas and the lack of a reserve fund before the special assessment.  Did you know that the first villas were bought at about $25,000 per week and many were sold in one-month blocks?  It's been a good, long run for those owners who now want to terminate Starwood management.

The right to terminate is pretty well established these days, but wrongful termination of a management contract can have expensive side effects.  Self-management is tempting, but extremely hard to pull off.

http://transfersmart.blogspot.com/2009/11/transfer-smart-news-timeshare-owners.html

http://www.hotelsmag.com/article/36...f_Hotel_Management_Agreements_In_Workouts.php

At my "owners update"  I was offered an annual Platinum Plus 2-br loft in Bay Vista for $55,595.  I was told this was "temporarily" down since last October from $89,995.  Biennial was $27,798.  I was offered 230,000 Starpoints as an incentive.  When I asked about the fixed 2-br loft for the holiday weeks (7, 47, 51 and 52), I was told they were still being sold for about $127,000.

The 3-br Platinum Plus in Bay Vista was $60,495 - supposedly down from $84,995.  Biennial was $30,278.  Same 230,000 Starpoint incentive.

The regular (non-loft) 2-br Platinum Plus was $49,895 - supposedly down from $69,995.  Biennial was $24,948.  110,000 Starpoint incentive.

I was told that the pricing and incentives were a "today only" deal.  However, the "customer satisfaction" representative offered me a week-long Explorer package for $3,895 in a 2-br Bay Vista that guaranteed pricing for 120 days.  I turned it down because I have used Staroptions to reserve another 3-br villa starting this September 25 (hurricane season).  The effective cost of the Staroptions was about $1,000.  So, I didn't want or need the Explorer offer.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say you are a 5 Star Elite (your Personal Information says you have no TS) and when you say nobody took out the garbage.  Except for the mid-week tidy, you don't get housekeeping services unless you pay for them at a Starwood TS.  The garbage can is out by the parking area for the pool villas.

The $75K you say you were quoted by Starwood for a week 13 or 14 in a pool villa is just about the same as the current asking price for a week 7 in 4211 (a smaller, older 3-br, 3-ba pool villa).  http://www.stjohnproperties.com/details.html?list_number=09-66

Be careful if you decide to purchase on the open market.  Aside from the tax situation and those in favor of ousting management, there is a VI stamp tax on transfers and the pool villas have varying floor plans (especially bathroom layouts) that matter and, because they are sold as fixed weeks, the exact week matters - a lot.

Hope you had a nice visit.  I sure did.   ...   eom


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## jarta

DavidnRobin,   ...   "Did you know that SVO gets 4:1 voting to every owner vote (in by-laws) and this will continue until all villas are sold - well guess what?! SVO owns ~10% of units - so thay have ~40% of proxy control."

Fuzzy math.

Assume 10,000 ownership interest weeks and Starwood has 10% or 1,000 interest weeks.

Starwood would have 4,000 votes.  The rest would have 9,000 votes.  There are 13,000 possible votes.  Starwood would have only 30.8% of the votes (4/13).

However, 30.8% of the votes is still very formidable.

BTW, the 4:1 voting rights for the developer applies at Lagunamar, too.     ...   eom


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## aristotlenova

jarta, we were totally neighbors. How funny. I could've picked your brain about TS stuff over a beer had I known. I think we got quoted the same prices, but looks like you got an extra 30k in SP incentives thrown at you. And btw, never said I was 5* elite or whatever that is, but rather SPG Plat (the hotel program). 

Also, since you seem to be ardently against the owner sentiment on this board about *wood management at WSJ, what's your thinking? For the 3BR pool villas, how is it even possible for the actual maintenance cost to be 3500 per week per villa? I mean the maintenance fees alone for just the pool villas would be $182k per year for one villa. Even if you had to refurbish every last item in the villa, and you factored in housekeeping and services, I can't imagine how it could possibly run that much. 

Since I'm not an owner, I have no idea if what I'm saying is logical or not. Do they share budget information with owners that outlines exactly how the money is spent? If not, and if they control the board, how can anyone feel comfortable with the way in which they manage?


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## jarta

aristotlenova,   ...   Sorry that I missed the SPG Platinum.

How the money is spent is the subject of an annual audited report.  It would contain broad categories, but, in the notes and comparison of budget to actual and actual to prior year, would disclose enough to satisfy most people.  (Things like number of use weeks, number retained by Starwood, allowance for delinquencies, whether and how much accounts receivable is written off each year, trends in revenue and expenses, length of the management contract, related transactions, etc.)

While I was at WSJ, I poked around the Internet for resales.  What I found leads me to believe that more than just repair week is an empty week for many pool villas.  If that's the case, the total amount collected would be less.  How much, I just don't know.

While poking around the Internet,  I came across multiple weeks for sale for the same pool villa.  Strangely, for separated weeks, the check in date listed varied widely (sometimes Friday, later Sunday, then, maybe, Saturday).  I don't know how you can sell full weeks with apparent overlaps of check in days.

That wouldn't explain all of what you feel may be excessive.  But little things add up.  The small pools are cleaned twice a week.  There are separate thermostats for the upper and lower floors of each villa which tells me there is zoned air conditioning.  There is probably twice as much furniture as in a smaller unit.  There are golf carts ferrying people to all the remote areas up the hills where the smaller Hillside units and the Bay Vista units are located.  The owners do not pay directly for the ferry use, but I assume it is figured in the MF on a per person basis.  There are taxis from and to the airport that need to be arranged.  There are drinks and cool towels when you arrive.  There are larger roof surfaces to maintain.  Our unit had 4 separate beds and 3.5 baths and 4 TVs.  Cable, wireless and satellite TV are "free" - but nothing is ever free.  The concierge and front desk are not separate like they are at most Starwood resorts.  The cost of maintaining the workout facilities is probably a shared expense.  The walls get nicked and dirtier than a one floor unit from people lugging suitcases up and down the stairs.  Sand can get everywhere (mostly from kids) and necessitate frequent fumigation as part of the clean up for the next guests.  The individual barbecues and hot tubs occasionally need work.  There are exterior walls and entry doors that can need servicing or painting.  The salt air makes everything deteriorate more quickly.  WSJ just looked to me like a place where the maintenance would be constant and expensive.  So, I think that $2,400 per year ($1,000 per year SA ends next year) is not really excessive for a 2,850 sq. ft. villa on an island where everything is shipped in.  And, the $2,400 includes a contribution to an actual reserve fund where none existed before.  I own a 3-br at Harborside and the 2010 assessment exceeds $2,400 - for far less sq. footage.

As for how anyone can trust the HOA, for 6 years I was on the board of 2 associations where I live.  In community living, you give up the freedom to make all the decisions yourself.  There is always a small, but vocal, minority that wants things run differently.  I did not buy 6 Platinum Plus 2-br (or larger) Starwood weeks because I thought it would come cheaply.  I bought on the Starwood track record of having very upscale accommodations and service-oriented staff at them.  And, I am not disappointed.  To keep the resorts that way, I know money has to be spent so I enjoy my vacations rather than belly-aching all the time about whether $1,100 in annual assessment for a 2-br lockoff in Myrtle Beach is pure banditry.  Within limits (which have not yet been reached) I am willing to trust the brand I sought out and purchased.

As for the anti-Starwood attitude of TUG members:  The 50 or so TUG members who complain all the time tend to drown out the many (especially 5 Star Elite) TUG members who merely sit back and smile.  All you have to do is go to any branded TUG forum to hear complaints.  While sitting around the pools at SVO resorts, I rarely hear anyone complaining about the cost of the assessments.  Last year everyone here was praising the virtues of Marriott.  Starting in June, when the new points system is adopted by Marriott, it will become this year's Starwood.  It's the nature of the people who post the most on TUG.

Still, WSJ was a very nice place to visit last week.  Depending on how tight trading in with Staroptions becomes after the tax bills go out, the SA ends and the economy comes back, I might want to buy something there - to use, not to trade.  GLTY!   ...   eom


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## DavidnRobin

aristotlenova said:


> Had a good chat with the sales people at WSJ. Asked a few pointed questions about MF increases with the hillside villas. Their perspective is that under Hyatt the hillside villas were run into the ground and had no reserve fund at all. Upgrades were necessary, the place was in shambles (their words not mine) hence the SA and the massive hike in MFs on the whole. When I asked why there was a SA without owner consent, they said they tried twice to get upgrades made, once not enough votes and second time owners voted it down. While I have no clue the accuracy of any of it, it was nice that they addressed it rather than trying to skirt the issue.
> 
> They also said that was not going to happen with Bay Vista since they are running it differently and a portion of your MFs are already allocated for reserve fund.
> 
> Anyhow, in case anyone is interested in the current pricing, they are selling 2BR + Loft BV villas for $58k during Plat Plus and are offering 200k in SP as incentive. Evidently, that's a $20k discount from what they were selling for last year (don't believe it, but so they say). I was more interested in the pool villas, and for the limited inventory they had, it was $75k for something in week 13 or 14 and 200k in SP. In both cases, I told them resale was like 1/3 of that so it just wasn't compelling. When they tried to dispute that, I happened to have a full listing from the MLS which had every resale on the market at current as well as every sale that has happened over the past 15 months. That ended that part of the convo pretty quickly.



Thanks for the update - and enjoy yourself.

The WSJ VG (Hillside) issues are diverse - with diverse opinions on all fronts.  It can easily get contrived to be something else by all parties involved with a vested interest (and for some reason someone who does not...), and therefore get easily on tangents that are unproductive (as with most complex issues with $ and happiness involved).

I am not looking to get into a lawsuit, nor a purely Owner controlled resort - or some other neferious reason.  However, I have a real piece of my own $ and happiness in this resort and its well-being - as everyone who is really involved in this battle.

My personal priority and intent is to get effective Owner-Owner Communication (for those who want it) that will give better transparency in the long run.  Simple - huh?   

I am looking at having a open partnership between Owners and SVO-WSJ with transparency (if I want it - and I do...)

But do consider that SVO does have a 4:1 voting power and owns ~10% of the VOIs.  Of the 5 BODs - 3 are SVO proxies, and 2 are Owners that are doing a tough job, but unfortunately (IMO and others) are not doing a tough job optimally.  And given the current state - in a resort like this where the Owners have a large vested interest - you can see and feel the upswell of concerned Owners that want answers - and not those off of a form letter from SVO.  No other SVO resort can claim as many Owners that have banded together - both those willing to be involved and those that want to be informed.  We have to be at least 700+ VOIs in connection - a drop in the bucket, but a 100-fold increase of where we were.

The issues over the years with MFs (and usage) was why this thread was started a long while back (as a TUG thread) and one of the most read (and mostly by lurkers).

Please go back and scan this thread and keep in perspective of info at the time.  You will clearly see my opinion - at the time - with the my knowledge at that time (as not to tangent in perfect hindsight).  And you can also see my intent - which is 1st and foremost to share information.

We and another owner even tried to buy a couch once for our villa - out of our own pocket...

Also keep in sight those individuals that have other motivations - as well as those that seem (on  the surface) to have no vested interest, but seem to be interesting in creating tangents for some unknown motivation.

WSJ and STJ is a great place - the Owners spend a lot to stay and own there - SVO and Owners have a vested interest in keeping this a 1st class resort (USVI standards apply here) - probably more so than any other SVO resort.  I beieve with communication and transparency we can move to that goal.

btw - I didn't send a CIS in - so this is not a election speech... :hysterical:


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## jarta

DavidnRobin,   ...   Has anyone ever asked to get a copy of the annual audit for the association?  Every owner at every timeshare resort has a vested interest in how it is run.  That's why anyone who doesn't think the HOA board is doing a good job well should immediately get a copy of the most recent audit, read it and publish the contents.

With the audit, you would clearly see if (or if not) there was any reserve fund extant prior to the imposition of the special assessment in 2009.  The people on the other side of the existing board would find it infinitely easier to attack that board if the lack of a reserve fund is found out to be a lie.

I find it unusual that the people with a such an overriding vested interest turned down a special assessment (twice) while a responsible guy like you was thinking of buying a new couch for your unit because the old one was worn out.  It just doesn't add up.  But, this great place to visit has had trouble ever since Hurricane Marilyn in 1996.     ...   eom


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## DavidnRobin

*Unrest at the Westin*

http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2010/04/virgin-islands-st-john-westin.html#comments

Sent to Frank Barnako (News of STJ) from yours truly.


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## GeneNWendy

*WSJ Owners Do Pay for Ferry Use*

Hi Jarta,

I just want to correct a fact you mentioned.  WSJ owners now pay $110.00 r/t to use the ferry during their stay.  That's the same amount as non-owners.  Like anyone else who uses the ferry, it includes unlimited trips to and from St. Thomas during their stay.  There used to be a discount of nearly $20.00 for owners, but that's not the case anymore.  The bottom line, is that the ferry cost should not factor into any maintenance fee calculation.




jarta said:


> aristotlenova,   ...   Sorry that I missed the SPG Platinum.
> 
> How the money is spent is the subject of an annual audited report.  It would contain broad categories, but, in the notes and comparison of budget to actual and actual to prior year, would disclose enough to satisfy most people.  (Things like number of use weeks, number retained by Starwood, allowance for delinquencies, whether and how much accounts receivable is written off each year, trends in revenue and expenses, length of the management contract, related transactions, etc.)
> 
> While I was at WSJ, I poked around the Internet for resales.  What I found leads me to believe that more than just repair week is an empty week for many pool villas.  If that's the case, the total amount collected would be less.  How much, I just don't know.
> 
> While poking around the Internet,  I came across multiple weeks for sale for the same pool villa.  Strangely, for separated weeks, the check in date listed varied widely (sometimes Friday, later Sunday, then, maybe, Saturday).  I don't know how you can sell full weeks with apparent overlaps of check in days.
> 
> That wouldn't explain all of what you feel may be excessive.  But little things add up.  The small pools are cleaned twice a week.  There are separate thermostats for the upper and lower floors of each villa which tells me there is zoned air conditioning.  There is probably twice as much furniture as in a smaller unit.  There are golf carts ferrying people to all the remote areas up the hills where the smaller Hillside units and the Bay Vista units are located.  The owners do not pay directly for the ferry use, but I assume it is figured in the MF on a per person basis.  There are taxis from and to the airport that need to be arranged.  There are drinks and cool towels when you arrive.  There are larger roof surfaces to maintain.  Our unit had 4 separate beds and 3.5 baths and 4 TVs.  Cable, wireless and satellite TV are "free" - but nothing is ever free.  The concierge and front desk are not separate like they are at most Starwood resorts.  The cost of maintaining the workout facilities is probably a shared expense.  The walls get nicked and dirtier than a one floor unit from people lugging suitcases up and down the stairs.  Sand can get everywhere (mostly from kids) and necessitate frequent fumigation as part of the clean up for the next guests.  The individual barbecues and hot tubs occasionally need work.  There are exterior walls and entry doors that can need servicing or painting.  The salt air makes everything deteriorate more quickly.  WSJ just looked to me like a place where the maintenance would be constant and expensive.  So, I think that $2,400 per year ($1,000 per year SA ends next year) is not really excessive for a 2,850 sq. ft. villa on an island where everything is shipped in.  And, the $2,400 includes a contribution to an actual reserve fund where none existed before.  I own a 3-br at Harborside and the 2010 assessment exceeds $2,400 - for far less sq. footage.
> 
> As for how anyone can trust the HOA, for 6 years I was on the board of 2 associations where I live.  In community living, you give up the freedom to make all the decisions yourself.  There is always a small, but vocal, minority that wants things run differently.  I did not buy 6 Platinum Plus 2-br (or larger) Starwood weeks because I thought it would come cheaply.  I bought on the Starwood track record of having very upscale accommodations and service-oriented staff at them.  And, I am not disappointed.  To keep the resorts that way, I know money has to be spent so I enjoy my vacations rather than belly-aching all the time about whether $1,100 in annual assessment for a 2-br lockoff in Myrtle Beach is pure banditry.  Within limits (which have not yet been reached) I am willing to trust the brand I sought out and purchased.
> 
> As for the anti-Starwood attitude of TUG members:  The 50 or so TUG members who complain all the time tend to drown out the many (especially 5 Star Elite) TUG members who merely sit back and smile.  All you have to do is go to any branded TUG forum to hear complaints.  While sitting around the pools at SVO resorts, I rarely hear anyone complaining about the cost of the assessments.  Last year everyone here was praising the virtues of Marriott.  Starting in June, when the new points system is adopted by Marriott, it will become this year's Starwood.  It's the nature of the people who post the most on TUG.
> 
> Still, WSJ was a very nice place to visit last week.  Depending on how tight trading in with Staroptions becomes after the tax bills go out, the SA ends and the economy comes back, I might want to buy something there - to use, not to trade.  GLTY!   ...   eom


----------



## jarta

GeneNWendy   ...   Sorry for the mistake about the ferry fee.  

I'm just a newbie to WSJ who might consider being your co-association member.  But, I'm concerned about the acrimony going on.  I understand the MF are high, but if the $1K SA is removed from the mix, the MF for a 3-br pool villa (2,850 sq. ft.) at WSJ will be about $300 *less* than I now pay at Harborside for my 3-br lockoff (1,446 sq. ft.).

Four questions about your interest in the fight you are organizing against Starwood:

1.  How did you vote on the special assessment questions?  

2.  Would you like to return to running the Hillside association without a reserve fund (or is Starwood lying about the lack of a reserve fund)?

3.  Would you rather WSJ be managed by Starwood or have someone else manage it and deal with Starwood without Starwood having a fiduciary obligation to Hillside owners in negotiations for access to hotel amenities?

4.  How many unit/weeks do you own and how many do you use yourself or and how many are rented out?

TIA.   ...   eom


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## Loriannf

*WSJ Proxy Received*

Sorry to start a new thread, but I just received my proxy.  35!! people are running for the 2 owner positions on the board.  SVO states that they continue to own 12% of the villas, but will refrain from voting on the owner representatives.

The Bio information is 6 pages long.  So at least there are interested owners, but how to best choose 2?  If there are any Tuggers running, please identify yourselves here on the board.

Thanks.

Lori


----------



## James1975NY

Loriannf said:


> Sorry to start a new thread, but I just received my proxy.  35!! people are running for the 2 owner positions on the board.  SVO states that they continue to own 12% of the villas, but will refrain from voting on the owner representatives.
> 
> The Bio information is 6 pages long.  So at least there are interested owners, but how to best choose 2?  If there are any Tuggers running, please identify yourselves here on the board.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Lori



Do you want to vote for a Tugger or the best candidate?


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## Loriannf

*Best Candidate*

But it would be nice if the candidate were also a TUGGER!

It's really hard to judge the candidates; everyone lists their qualifications, but very few state what they want to do beyond the generic "make communications better, lower fees".

I realize they have limited space, but it would be nice to know their plan.

Lori


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## Tia

Best to coordinate and choose just 2 candidates to concentrate your votes, to elect best choices once you all decided.


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## jerseygirl

I believe the coordination efforts are being made via the owners' group emails to minimize the "noise" from non-owners.

I'm not aware of any regular TUG posters running ... I was hoping DavidnRobin would run, but David stated he decided not to on another thread the other day.   

Reading between the lines of the very short bios submitted, I've been able to narrow my choices considerably.  However, I too am hoping for some guidance from the owners' group.


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## jerseygirl

I also have to say that after almost 10 years as a Starwood owner, this appears to be the most transparent and fair election solicitation I've ever received from them.  I won't speculate on what's behind it -- but it's a huge improvement from my perspective.  

Starwood has pledged not to influence the vote for the owner members.  As stated above, they will not be casting their votes ...  and, for owners who designate the Assoc Secretary as proxy, the votes will be cast "in the same manner as the majority of the owners voting in the election."

Of course, they still hold 3 seats so I guess they can afford to be generous ... but this is a huge step in the right direction.


----------



## islandguy

Received my proxies for the election of board of directors for the Virgin Grand Villas.  35 owners want to be elected to the 2 available positions (SPG appoints 3 of the 5).

Way too many to pick from -- Are there any tugers on the list?  Odds the two that are currently on the board will get reelected (Walter DeCastro & Melissa Brookes) usless a block of votes go to one or two of the 35.

Comments... 

Island Guy


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## olivias dad

Anyone here have any new pics of the Hillside Villa renovations?  I've been to the new buildings during our "Owner Updates".  When we were there last August, they were renovating bld. 33


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## GeneNWendy

*I have recommendation*



islandguy said:


> Received my proxies for the election of board of directors for the Virgin Grand Villas.  35 owners want to be elected to the 2 available positions (SPG appoints 3 of the 5).
> 
> Way too many to pick from -- Are there any tugers on the list?  Odds the two that are currently on the board will get reelected (Walter DeCastro & Melissa Brookes) usless a block of votes go to one or two of the 35.
> 
> Comments...
> 
> I and a group of 200 people are standing behind Philip Schrag and Bob Werbel.


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## skewbiesnaxx

What about Tom DeClemente, who has filed suit against these thieves? He's got my vote.


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## jerseygirl

Tom is voluntarily withdrawing in favor of Philip Schrag and Bob Werbel (but I'm not sure that word is going to get out to anyone not in the owner's group).

I'm considering assigning Tom my proxy with full powers.  That way, if a last minute change in strategy is needed, he can cast my votes accordingly.

Hoping Gene will come along and address this particular strategy.  He posted the following on a different thread:



			
				GeneNWendy said:
			
		

> Please check out the following link for a recommendation on who to elect in the May 17, 2010 election.
> 
> http://www.stjohnvirgingrandvillaown...c.php?f=8&t=28


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding Tom DeClemente*



skewbiesnaxx said:


> What about Tom DeClemente, who has filed suit against these thieves? He's got my vote.



Tom DeClemente, Steve Dixon, Clay Peters, and Harry Vollmer have all withdrawn from the election to support the two candidates that I mentioned in my previous post.  Most of us agree that Tom is a great asset to our group, but that his efforts will be best used working with the board on the outside once we get a couple of good members in.  A lot of people, believe it or not, are against the attitude of "Sue, Sue, Sue" which could make it difficult for Tom to get elected.  However the 2 people we are standing behind (including Tom) are attorneys with tremendous experience.  I can't go into detail here, but Phil Schrag did some legal research and found some possible flaws between the USVI Condo Act (which governs all condos and timeshares) and our by-laws at Virgin Grand Villas.  This info needs to be confirmed by a USVI attorney.  However, if Phil's research is correct, the by-laws of Virgin Grand Villas would be considered "flawed" and legally have to be re-written much more in favor of the owners (as opposed to the developer).  This could turn things around 180 degrees for us.  I like the fact that Phil has done his homework and is very pro-active.  Also, as a law school professor at Georgetown U, he will have time (or be able to make time) to attend all Starwood meetings of Board Members.  Bob Werbel also has a legal background having worked for 40 years in the profession, many of those years as an attorney for the SEC.  I believe he would work well with Phil in implementing change.  Being that he's retired (or semi-retired) he also has time to attend any Board meetings.

I wish I could be more specific, but this is about as much as I can reveal at this point.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding our strategy*



jerseygirl said:


> Tom is voluntarily withdrawing in favor of Philip Schrag and Bob Werbel (but I'm not sure that word is going to get out to anyone not in the owner's group).
> 
> I'm considering assigning Tom my proxy with full powers.  That way, if a last minute change in strategy is needed, he can cast my votes accordingly.
> 
> Hoping Gene will come along and address this particular strategy.  He posted the following on a different thread:



Hi JerseyGirl,

We are in the process of trying to get Starwood to notify people that Tom is withdrawing from the election as well as the other people I mentioned.  BTW, I didn't put it on Tug yet, but everyone in agreement with me should put down Tom DeClemente as the proxy holder on line 2.  He *will* be at the meeting.  Also, everyone should select *Limited Powers* as opposed to General Powers.


----------



## GeneNWendy

jarta said:


> GeneNWendy   ...   Sorry for the mistake about the ferry fee.
> 
> I'm just a newbie to WSJ who might consider being your co-association member.  But, I'm concerned about the acrimony going on.  I understand the MF are high, but if the $1K SA is removed from the mix, the MF for a 3-br pool villa (2,850 sq. ft.) at WSJ will be about $300 *less* than I now pay at Harborside for my 3-br lockoff (1,446 sq. ft.).
> 
> Four questions about your interest in the fight you are organizing against Starwood:
> 
> 1.  How did you vote on the special assessment questions?


 *We voted "yes" not realizing it would result in doubling our fees for nearly 3 years*


> 2.  Would you like to return to running the Hillside association without a reserve fund (or is Starwood lying about the lack of a reserve fund)?


 *Absolutely not.  We were under the impression (looking at the reverse side of MF invoices in the past) that there were $2 million in reserves back in 2002 and have only grown since then.*


> 3.  Would you rather WSJ be managed by Starwood or have someone else manage it and deal with Starwood without Starwood having a fiduciary obligation to Hillside owners in negotiations for access to hotel amenities?


 *We would prefer to have WSJ managed by Starwood if possible but with a majority control of owners (not Starwood employees) on the board since we do own 88% of the units at this point.  However, if Starwood continues to act in bad faith, we might consider another management company.*


> 4.  How many unit/weeks do you own and how many do you use yourself or and how many are rented out?


 *My wife and I own 2 weeks, one in the Spring and one in the early part of summer.  We usually use one week and rent one out.  However, in 2011, we plan to rent both weeks out to offset the high MF's still in place.  Supposedly they will go down in 2012 after the upgrades are complete.  I'll beleive it when I see the invoices for that year.*



> TIA.   ...   eom



Hi Jarta,

I put answers next to each of your questions above.


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## jarta

Thank you.


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## jarta

Just took a look.  Schrag & Werbel certainly look like good candidates for the WSJ board.   ...   eom


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## olivias dad

This is my just my honest opinion - i think those that actually expressed the current concerns of the majority look like the best votes on paper... hopefully the votes are heard and the right people get elected in and make a difference...


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## DavidnRobin

I am supporting Philip (Philip Schrag) and Bob (Robert H. Werbel).  Philip is a long-time Tugger.  I have met him a few times while at WSJ. He helped me when I bought my 1st WSJ villa with a legal search I was doing on the purchase (eBay) - and went out his way to answer my questions and concerns (in true Tugger form) - and I have attempted to Pay It Forward since then. Definitely a stand-up guy and very bright.

I had the chance to speak with Bob during our discussions with other concerned WSJ Owners about attempting to gain Owner control of our wonderful resort. Also, a very qualified Ownerto be on the BOD (along w others).

Many listed on the ballot are much more qualified than me to be on the BOD and why I choose not to run.  However, I am extremely proud knowing my efforts helped pave the way for a true SVO Owner first (hopefully) - by getting so many Owners involved - but I realize this is only the first step.

Got to catch a flight - more later.


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## DavidnRobin

Sorry - tough to edit on an iPhone

As I was trying to write...
Please cast your votes as you see fit - I am supporting Philip Schrag and Robert H. Werbel

I am sure their are other qualified candidates on the ballot, but I believe it is important to have a concerted effort to put votes towards 2 qualified candidates that represent what I believe to be the most important issues (I think about half of the candidates had the same concerns as most of the owners that care about transparency and communication - and of course skyrocketting MFs).  Because of the potential dilution of votes - and that there are owners who do not care to send in proxies (less now than in the past I am sure considering the outcry) - it is important that we put our efforts in support of these 2 qualified candidates.


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## ctbt

*Why I am running for the Board*

Since my name has been mentioned in several posts, let me clarify why I am running (along with Bob Werbel) for the Board of Directors of the Owners Association at the Westin St. John.  I am, by the way, a long time member of TUG.  My full bio is at 
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/faculty/facinfo/tab_faculty.cfm?Status=FullTime&ID=324



1. Unit owners own 88% of the hillside property (Starwood still has not sold 12%).  But Starwood claims the right to appoint 3 of the 5 members of the homeowners association, and as for the other two members, the bylaws permit it to cast 4 times as many votes for each of its units as owners are allowed to cast for theirs (although it has waived its right to do so for the current election).  This strikes me as unfair.

2. Maintenance and special assessments have been rising at an extraordinary rate.  Maybe this is justified by necessary repairs.  But the homeowners association has been remarkably uncommunicative to its constituents about the justification for the increases.  We have, I think, had one email from them in three years.  And when I tried to reply to the email, my reply bounced -- it was not accepted.  I re-sent it to Board relations, and it went through but was unanswered.

3. One of the reasons for the increases may be defaults by some owners -- the losses get passed on to those of us who do pay their fees.  So I repeatedly passed on to Greg Gray a suggestion that I read on TUG: that units with unpaid maintenance be offered for use to existing owners who would pay the maintenance (or perhaps some fraction of it -- a win/win proposition).  He said that he passed the idea along to higher-ups in Starwood management, but I never received an answer, and perhaps he didn't either -- another example of non-responsiveness.

4. By the way, I voted FOR the special assessment both times it was put to a referendum.  I am not against spending money to keep up this great resort.  But the assessment was defeated both times, and yet it was imposed.  To my knowledge, the Owners Association never explained to unit owners how it accomplished this feat despite the defeat of the referendum.

5. Some people would like to replace Starwood (or its subsidiary) as the manager.  I hope that this does not become necessary.  I think that this will be a less likely outcome if the Owners Association is truly independent and therefore able to deal with Starwood from a position of greater independence.

6. Finally, I think that the Owners Association should create and encourage a password-protected web-based system through which all owners could communicate with each other for purposes both of governance and swapping weeks.  The TUG exchange board is great, and I've made use of it, but only a small percentage of St. John owners are TUG members.  A couple of people have tried to set up Westin St. John - only boards, but they haven't worked well.  I hope that the Owners Association could bring in a lot of people who don't know about TUG.

Philip Schrag
Delaney Family Professor of Public Interest Law
Georgetown University
(Institutional affiliation listed for identification purposes only)

P.S.  As a previous post in this thread noted, if you agree with these sentiments, send an email to Gene at cruisingemj@gmail.com  Gene is amassing the list of owners who want to make the owners association more responsive.


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## DavidnRobin

As you can see above ^^^^ - Phil has a good sense of priorities and is practical.

As many know - I am a proponent of an Owner-to-Owner (O2O) website - and one that is different than TUG (for a variety of reasons).  IMO - transparency of the HOA BOD is of key importance to get this resort up to the standards that we all expect, and O2O communication would help create and maintain this transparency.

I was somewhat disappointed with the number of people running for the WSJ-VG BOD - I worry that it may dilute the votes and we will be left with the status quo (lack of transparency/communication) that has gotten this resort in a downward spiral over the last few years with a doubling of our MFs.

Hopefully, with a successful vote and new Owner representatives on the BOD that can work with both SVO and other concerned Owners we can all work together to get this resort back on a positive track.

Like Phil - we also voted for the refurbish - mainly because conditions had gotten so bad.  However, as stated very nicely by Phil, it was the existing boards fault that this was not successful (for a variety of reasons), but can be boiled down to being unresponsive and lack of O2O communication - that needs to change.

Walter DeCastro and Melissa Brookes - the current 'Owner' representatives on the BOD have failed the HOA on many levels.  If these individuals get re-elected to the BOD (essentialy by SVO controlling the voting) - I am seriously considering selling our 2-weeks at WSJ.  Luckily for us - we paid about as much as the going resale price - so it would not be a large loss. However, considering the extremely high MFs - and for that same price (or less) you can rent a private pool villa on STJ - it would be a cost savings.  It would be unfortunate because we realy enjoy our 2-weeks on STJ and at WSJ, but can no longer stand to be used by SVO as a cash cow for them.


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## jarta

ctbt,   ...   In the Virgin Islands, it seems the Bylaws are King.  Not many other restrictions.

Virgin Islands Code, Title Thirteen (Corporations), Chapter 3 (Non-Profit Corporations), Sec. 495:

"§ 495. Bylaws; adoption; contents   

 Before transacting any business or acquiring any property the persons constituting the membership of the corporation shall meet and adopt bylaws. The vote of a majority of all the members in good standing of the corporation shall be necessary to the adoption of such bylaws and when adopted the same shall be written in a book kept by the corporation, to be duly signed by all persons thereafter becoming members of said corporation so formed under this chapter. The corporation may by its bylaws provide for the time, place and manner of calling and conducting its meetings; the number of directors, managers or trustees, the time of their election, their term of office and the mode and manner of their removal; the mode and manner of filling vacancies on the board of directors, managers or trustees caused by death, resignation, removal or otherwise; the power and authority of the directors, managers or trustees; the compensation of the directors, managers or trustees or of the officers; the mode and manner of conducting business; the mode and manner of conducting elections; the qualifications for membership; the manner in which membership shall cease; the mode and manner of expulsion of a member; the termination of a member's interest in the corporate property under the cessation of his membership, and whether he shall be remunerated therefor, and, if so, in what manner; the amount of membership fee, and the dues, or other charges which each member may be required to pay, if any; the charges which may be made for services rendered or supplies furnished the members of the corporation by it; the manner of collection or enforcement of membership fees, dues or charges, and the method of forfeiting the membership interest, for nonpayment; the method, time and manner of permitting the withdrawal of a member, if at all, and how such withdrawing member's interest may be ascertained and payments made therefor, if the corporation decides he should be reimbursed therefor; the formation of a surplus fund and the manner and proportion in which such surplus fund shall be distributed, either upon the order of the corporation or upon its dissolution; and generally, all such other matters as may be proper to carry out the purpose for which the corporation was formed."

http://www.michie.com/virginislands/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=vicode

Also, for condos, see Title Twenty-Eight (Property), Chapter 33 (Condominium Act), Sections 902 (Horizontal Property Regimes) and 919 (Books of Receipts and Expenditures):

"§ 919. Books of receipts and expenditures; availability for examination; annual audit   

 The manager or Board of Directors, as the case may be, shall keep detailed, accurate records in chronological order, of the receipts and expenditures affecting the common areas and facilities, specifying and itemizing the maintenance and repair expenses of the common areas and facilities and any other expenses incurred. Such records and the vouchers authorizing the payments shall be available for examination by the apartment owners upon reasonable notice in advance at convenient hours of week days. An annual audit by an independent auditor shall be made of the books and records."

Has any owner ever asked for a copy of the annual independent audits at WSJ?  Inspection of the audits should disclose whatever happened to any reserve fund (if there was such a thing) and at least what general categories of expenses exist.  The audits normally would compare each year the budgeted and actual income and expenses and, in the notes, would indicate the terms of the management agreement, related transactions and give a pretty good indication of the percentage of delinquencies.

Even if the election does not result in your election, you certainly have (and always have had) the right to get a copy of the annual audit.  Good luck in the election.

I was at the resort about 2 weeks ago.  First trip.  It's a very appealing place - assuming the infighting calms down a little.   ...   eom


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## DavidnRobin

*Excerpts from WSJ-VG Letter re: BOD Vote*

For those interested - excerpts from WSJ-VG concerning the upcoming BOD vote.

Virgin Grand Villas - STJ Condo Owners Assoc (aka WSJ-VG HOA) Meeting is on May 17, 2010 at 11AM EST in the Asia 5 Conference Rm at the Walt Disney World Dolphin, 1500 Epcot Resort Blvd., Lake Buena Vista, FLA

Two Owners to be elected to the WSJ-VG HOA BOD.  Term is for 3 years.  Votes can be cast by proxy (or by attendence).

Pursuant to the Bylaws - The Declarant (SVO) retains the right to appoint 3 of 5 members to the HOA BOD until SVO has sold all of its interest in WSJ-VG.

Currently, SVO owns and pay MFs for ~12% of the VOIs at WSJ-VG.  SVO *will not* participate in the voting for Owner representation to serve on the BOD, *but has advised that it will allow its voting interest to be counted in order to obtain a quorum to hold the election the election at the meeting.*

Please take time to review the enclosed biograhies of the candidate owners.  Each was submitted by the respective candidate.  The BOD and teh Manager have not edited or verified teh accuracy of the candidates statements, and do not endorse any candidate's positions.  The Manager reserves the right to correct misstatements of fact at a later date.

By completing the proxy - you are exercising your right to vote on issues that properly come before the Members during the meeting.  The proxy contains both general and limited powers.  You can elect either or both.

By choosing to grant your proxy holder general proxy powers you are giving them the power to vote at their discretion on any issue that properly comes before the members at the meeting, including the election.  There is no anticipation that any voting issues will arise at the meeting except the election of the 2 owner representatives to serve on the BOD.

By choosing to grant your proxyholder limited powers you specifically direct the proxyholder how to vote as to that particular issue, in this case you will direct your proxyholder to cast cast the votes for the candidates you select.
By choosing both general and limited powers - your proxyholder must vote the limited powers as you specifically direct and the proxyholder can vote at their discretion as it relates to any other issue that properly comes before the members at the meeting.

The proxyholder MUST be present at the meeting to vote.  If not present - your vote will not be counted.  If your proxyholder is unable to attend in person they can execute the Substition of proxyholder section of the proxy to give the voting power who is attending the meeting.

Only properly executed original proxy forms will be accepted (not faxed or emailed copies)  If you choose the Assoc Secretary can serve as your proxyholder.

Everyone is encouraged to vote through the use of limited powers to make certain your vote is counted for specific candidates.  *If you grant the general proxy powers to the Assoc Secretary - the BOD has agreed that it will instruct the Secretary to cast those votes in the same manner as the majority of the Owners voting in the elections.  The BOD will not influence the outcome of the election and the 2 candidates who receive the most votes from the Owners will be elected*.

35 Owners submited their names and biographical information (included).  You wil have 2 votes to elect 2 candidates - cumulative voting is not permitted.

An Owner who is delinquent more than 60 days in any payment due to HOA will not be eligible to vote.

Proxy votes sent in advance will be scanned by a 3rd independent party - votes submitted at the meeting will be counted by the BOD.  The results will be made available to all owners as son as possible after the meeting is concluded.

Proxies must be received by the time/date of the meeting.  It is recommended that teh proxy is mailed as soon as possible, but not less than 1 week before the meeting.  If you own more than one VOI - you will receive a separate proxy for each VOI.


----------



## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> I also have to say that after almost 10 years as a Starwood owner, this appears to be the most transparent and fair election solicitation I've ever received from them.  I won't speculate on what's behind it -- but it's a huge improvement from my perspective.
> 
> Starwood has pledged not to influence the vote for the owner members.  As stated above, they will not be casting their votes ...  and, for owners who designate the Assoc Secretary as proxy, the votes will be cast "in the same manner as the majority of the owners voting in the election."
> 
> Of course, they still hold 3 seats so I guess they can afford to be generous ... but this is a huge step in the right direction.




I will speculate - a good bet that it is due to the recent WSJ-VG Owner uprising.  SVO has been getting pressure from all sides.  There are a lot of very influencial WSJ owners (both in politics and with connections within Starwood), and add to that the many concerned owners that have banded together - and Starwood decided perhaps it was time to listen and respond (vs. generic letters).  The upcoming vote (w/o SVO involvement) is an excellent example of this - and kudos to SVO for changing their practice of proxy control.  Of course as jersygirl stated - they will still have at least 3 SVO employees on the BOD, but it is a start in the right direction.

There has been a lot of behind the scene activities - please make sure you are following the WSJ Thread for updates.  Contact Gene (Tugger: GeneNWendy) for more details regarding the upcoming votes - and the efforts the united WSJ-VG owners have been persuing in order to get our voices heard.

The united WSJ-VG Owners (including me) are favoring Philip Schrag (Tugger)and Robert H. Werbel as the candidates of choice.


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## gregb

You might want to check your bylaws to see if they allow cumulative voting.  If they do, you may want to consider cast all of your votes for a single candidate instead of voting for the two or three. Just a thought.

Greg


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## DavidnRobin

gregb said:


> You might want to check your bylaws to see if they allow cumulative voting.  If they do, you may want to consider cast all of your votes for a single candidate instead of voting for the two or three. Just a thought.
> 
> Greg



The letter clearly states that you cannot have cummulative voting - whether correct or not by the Bylaws.  At this point - the request is to vote for Philip Schrag and Robert H. Werbel - at least by those who agree with our efforts.


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## gregb

The By-Laws for WKORVN allow cumulative voting.  You might want to check the By-Laws for WSJ to see if they do as well.  If they do, considering how many proxies you get, you may want to consider casting both of your votes for a single candidate to ensure you get at least one candidate on the board.  Just a thought.

Greg


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## DavidnRobin

Greg - I appreciate your comments - if true, it is just too late to inform people - besides we are voting for 2 people and want both on the BOD


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## DavidnRobin

*Open Letter to WSJ-VG Owners*

Dear Westin St. John Villa owner:

You have just received your ballot(s) (called “proxies”) for the election of two owner representatives on the five-member Board of Directors of the owners association.  (Starwood currently appoints the three other members). 

We are a group of owners, just like you, who want to have our interests more vigorously represented and reported to us.  (Our current Board representatives have not kept in touch with us or updated us regularly during their three-year terms).  Maintenance fees have skyrocketed, not only costing us more each year but also decreasing the market value of our units -- and we have to pay higher fees because of the unpaid obligations of owners who default.  

We are therefore uniting to try to elect the two candidates listed below, who will stay in touch with owners and represent their interests.  This does not mean knee-jerk opposition to expenses that are necessary to maintain and improve the property.  But our representatives should work with management to keep expenses down as much as possible, eliminate unnecessary ones, and figure out a better way to make up for the losses caused by those owners who don’t pay their maintenance fees.  For example, when owners don’t pay their fees, their units should be made available to other owners who will make up some or all of the arrears.  We also want to amend the by-laws to give owners majority control.  Starwood employees should advise but not dominate our Board.  Also, the Board should set up a password-protected website for owners so that they can swap weeks with one another.

If you are not personally attending the meeting of the owners association on May 17 in Florida, we urge you, therefore, to fill out your proxies as follows:

1.  Do not fill in the circle to appoint Pauline Carter as your representative.  She is a Starwood employee, and the owners’ interests may not be her first priority.   Instead, we recommend you fill in the second circle and designate Tom DeClemente to be your proxy holder.  He is an owner and member of our group who will attend the election meeting.
2.  Then check the box giving Mr. DeClemente “limited powers” and check the appropriate boxes, next to the names of candidates, to instruct Mr. DeClemente to vote for the election of the following two candidates to the Board of Directors:

Philip Schrag
Robert H. Werbel

(The personal statements of these candidates were included in the mailing that accompanied the proxy form).

3.  Sign and date the proxy – not in the very bottom line on the page, but on the line above the word “signature” that appears in bold letters.
4.  Mail it, in the envelope that Starwood sent you, no later than May 10.
5.  If you own more than one unit, follow this procedure on a separate ballot for each unit.

Thank you for your attention to this important election for directors who have the duty of protecting your interest in our wonderful resort.

Tom DeClemente*
Stephen C. Dixon*
Gene Jaspan**
Cathleen Noland
Clay Peters*
Philip Schrag
Robert H. Werbel

* Nominated candidate who is withdrawing his candidacy in favor of electing candidates Philip Schrag and Robert Werbel

** Sender of this email.  If you have questions or know of others who should receive this email, you may contact Mr. Jaspan at cruisingemj@gmail.com


----------



## blackfly

*WSJ Annual Meeting*

Is anyone else planning on attending this meeting in person?

Jim


----------



## DavidnRobin

blackfly said:


> Is anyone else planning on attending this meeting in person?
> 
> Jim



Not sure - might want to ask Gene
Perhaps James will go - since he is located in Orlando (but dont think he owns WSJ)


----------



## skewbiesnaxx

DavidnRobin said:


> Dear Westin St. John Villa owner:
> 
> You have just received your ballot(s) (called “proxies”) for the election of two owner representatives on the five-member Board of Directors of the owners association.  (Starwood currently appoints the three other members).
> 
> We are a group of owners, just like you, who want to have our interests more vigorously represented and reported to us.  (Our current Board representatives have not kept in touch with us or updated us regularly during their three-year terms).  Maintenance fees have skyrocketed, not only costing us more each year but also decreasing the market value of our units -- and we have to pay higher fees because of the unpaid obligations of owners who default.
> 
> We are therefore uniting to try to elect the two candidates listed below, who will stay in touch with owners and represent their interests.  This does not mean knee-jerk opposition to expenses that are necessary to maintain and improve the property.  But our representatives should work with management to keep expenses down as much as possible, eliminate unnecessary ones, and figure out a better way to make up for the losses caused by those owners who don’t pay their maintenance fees.  For example, when owners don’t pay their fees, their units should be made available to other owners who will make up some or all of the arrears.  We also want to amend the by-laws to give owners majority control.  Starwood employees should advise but not dominate our Board.  Also, the Board should set up a password-protected website for owners so that they can swap weeks with one another.
> 
> If you are not personally attending the meeting of the owners association on May 17 in Florida, we urge you, therefore, to fill out your proxies as follows:
> 
> 1.  Do not fill in the circle to appoint Pauline Carter as your representative.  She is a Starwood employee, and the owners’ interests may not be her first priority.   Instead, we recommend you fill in the second circle and designate Tom DeClemente to be your proxy holder.  He is an owner and member of our group who will attend the election meeting.
> 2.  Then check the box giving Mr. DeClemente “limited powers” and check the appropriate boxes, next to the names of candidates, to instruct Mr. DeClemente to vote for the election of the following two candidates to the Board of Directors:
> 
> Philip Schrag
> Robert H. Werbel
> 
> (The personal statements of these candidates were included in the mailing that accompanied the proxy form).
> 
> 3.  Sign and date the proxy – not in the very bottom line on the page, but on the line above the word “signature” that appears in bold letters.
> 4.  Mail it, in the envelope that Starwood sent you, no later than May 10.
> 5.  If you own more than one unit, follow this procedure on a separate ballot for each unit.
> 
> Thank you for your attention to this important election for directors who have the duty of protecting your interest in our wonderful resort.
> 
> Tom DeClemente*
> Stephen C. Dixon*
> Gene Jaspan**
> Cathleen Noland
> Clay Peters*
> Philip Schrag
> Robert H. Werbel
> 
> * Nominated candidate who is withdrawing his candidacy in favor of electing candidates Philip Schrag and Robert Werbel
> 
> ** Sender of this email.  If you have questions or know of others who should receive this email, you may contact Mr. Jaspan at cruisingemj@gmail.com



I have done exactly this. Thanks for you hard work!


----------



## DavidnRobin

skewbiesnaxx said:


> I have done exactly this. Thanks for you hard work!



Great - just 1000s more to go... :whoopie:


----------



## GeneNWendy

*People attending meeting at Westin*



blackfly said:


> Is anyone else planning on attending this meeting in person?
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim,

I know with certainty that Tom DeClemente, Robert Werbel, and Clay Peters will be present at this meeting.  As an I aside, I was planning to go myself when it was originally scheduled for April 27th.  I even booked flights and made hotel reservations for that date.  Since the meeting wasn't going to take place, I decided to go down anyway so that I would have a day in the warm weather.  As it turned out, there were major storms in the Northeast on Monday, April 26th so my flight got cancelled.  I guess a positive way to look at it is that I got my money back for everything.

Unfortunately, I will be out of the country on May 17th and will not be able to attend the re-scheduled meeting in Orlando.

Gene


----------



## OCsun

DavidnRobin said:


> Great - just 1000s more to go... :whoopie:



I followed your instructions too!  Thanks for your help! Pam


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Thanks for your support*

Hi Pam,

Thank you for your support.  You should join our owner's list if you haven't already done so.  You can send me a private message with the following info:

1. Mailing address
2. E-Mail address
3. Contact telephone number
4. Week # (s) and Villa # (s) owned at WSJ

You can also e-mail me directly at CruisingEMJ@gmail.com with the same info.  BTW, our group has a name now *St John Virgin Grand Villas Coalition* .  

Regards,
Gene


----------



## GeneNWendy

jarta said:


> ctbt,   ...   In the Virgin Islands, it seems the Bylaws are King.  Not many other restrictions.
> 
> Virgin Islands Code, Title Thirteen (Corporations), Chapter 3 (Non-Profit Corporations), Sec. 495:
> 
> "§ 495. Bylaws; adoption; contents
> 
> Before transacting any business or acquiring any property the persons constituting the membership of the corporation shall meet and adopt bylaws. The vote of a majority of all the members in good standing of the corporation shall be necessary to the adoption of such bylaws and when adopted the same shall be written in a book kept by the corporation, to be duly signed by all persons thereafter becoming members of said corporation so formed under this chapter. The corporation may by its bylaws provide for the time, place and manner of calling and conducting its meetings; the number of directors, managers or trustees, the time of their election, their term of office and the mode and manner of their removal; the mode and manner of filling vacancies on the board of directors, managers or trustees caused by death, resignation, removal or otherwise; the power and authority of the directors, managers or trustees; the compensation of the directors, managers or trustees or of the officers; the mode and manner of conducting business; the mode and manner of conducting elections; the qualifications for membership; the manner in which membership shall cease; the mode and manner of expulsion of a member; the termination of a member's interest in the corporate property under the cessation of his membership, and whether he shall be remunerated therefor, and, if so, in what manner; the amount of membership fee, and the dues, or other charges which each member may be required to pay, if any; the charges which may be made for services rendered or supplies furnished the members of the corporation by it; the manner of collection or enforcement of membership fees, dues or charges, and the method of forfeiting the membership interest, for nonpayment; the method, time and manner of permitting the withdrawal of a member, if at all, and how such withdrawing member's interest may be ascertained and payments made therefor, if the corporation decides he should be reimbursed therefor; the formation of a surplus fund and the manner and proportion in which such surplus fund shall be distributed, either upon the order of the corporation or upon its dissolution; and generally, all such other matters as may be proper to carry out the purpose for which the corporation was formed."
> 
> http://www.michie.com/virginislands/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=vicode
> 
> Also, for condos, see Title Twenty-Eight (Property), Chapter 33 (Condominium Act), Sections 902 (Horizontal Property Regimes) and 919 (Books of Receipts and Expenditures):
> 
> "§ 919. Books of receipts and expenditures; availability for examination; annual audit
> 
> The manager or Board of Directors, as the case may be, shall keep detailed, accurate records in chronological order, of the receipts and expenditures affecting the common areas and facilities, specifying and itemizing the maintenance and repair expenses of the common areas and facilities and any other expenses incurred. Such records and the vouchers authorizing the payments shall be available for examination by the apartment owners upon reasonable notice in advance at convenient hours of week days. An annual audit by an independent auditor shall be made of the books and records."
> 
> Has any owner ever asked for a copy of the annual independent audits at WSJ?  Inspection of the audits should disclose whatever happened to any reserve fund (if there was such a thing) and at least what general categories of expenses exist.  The audits normally would compare each year the budgeted and actual income and expenses and, in the notes, would indicate the terms of the management agreement, related transactions and give a pretty good indication of the percentage of delinquencies.
> 
> Even if the election does not result in your election, you certainly have (and always have had) the right to get a copy of the annual audit.  Good luck in the election.
> 
> I was at the resort about 2 weeks ago.  First trip.  It's a very appealing place - assuming the infighting calms down a little.   ...   eom



Jarta,

I have the 2008 independent audit.  If you send me a private message with your personal e-mail address, I can e-mail it to you as an attachment.

Regards,
Gene


----------



## TimW1

Received a newsletter from our association.  It is a nice surprise.  Nice to see refurbishment progress update and information about upcoming election.  Most of the budget information is general but it's a start.


http://www.starwoodvacationownershi...iation/WSJ/1785_VirginGrand_HOANewsletter.pdf



We are leaving this Saturday for our vacation and ready to go!


----------



## jerseygirl

Here's the Bay Vista one as well:

http://www.starwoodvacationownershi...sociation/WSJ/1786_BayVista_HOANewsletter.pdf

It mentions a proxy was sent for a May 17th meeting.  Did anyone receive this?  I got mine for Phase One (Hillside) but this is the first I've heard of a meeting on the same day for Bay Vista.


----------



## DavidnRobin

A few comments:

The Owners meeting at the resort have always gone on (although I have yet to attend...).

Interesting that the HOA BOD is reaching out for improved communication. - including a voluntary Owners directory initiative.  Gee, I wonder why the concern all of a sudden...  
Goes to show if you get enough Owners together - you can implement change.

The revolving door for the WSJ GM and Director of Operations continues.  Nobody has lasted long in these positions.  I hope the best for Mike Ryan (GM) and John Ireland (DO) - it cannot be an easy task dealing with the USVI workforce, demanding vacationers, and the 'island-time' culture.

Re: Refurbishment Projects Chart - estimated completion dates
I am confused by this chart - does this mean for the blank cells - that these activities have alreay been completed?  {so building 34 just has mattresses to go?}

In 2011 - roofs, sidings and roofs are to be replaced - great news (and great to finally to see it in writing) - I wonder if we will still have our infamous bees in the walls of our villa this year?

...and replacement of some exterior door and windows - since I have heard of leakage - this is good news.

The Westin ferry is back - I had heard from some that it was not operational for a while - of course it is $110pp RT with no Owners discount.

And of course - the new restuarant that replaces C&B - we may try and get there this year and check it out - it has gotten good reviews.

Utilities savings by the resort going more Green - Yeah! Since DnR represent those green planet-global warming-america destroying socialist fanatics that everyone should fear --- we are all in favor of this.   

Financials -
Standard text about the unpredicted recessionary times that we are currently facing (not by Goldman Sachs... but everyone else...).  I would imagine that WSJ Owners are in the top 5th percentile of incomes where it must be really hard to keep up those payments on their 2nd vacation homes.

SVO paid 11.1% of the MF for VOIs that they own. Interesting that they refer to them as unsold versus SVO owned.
The collection of 2010 MFs is expected to be similiar to the 2009 rate at an ~95% rate - matches my hypothesis above regarding WSJ Owners 

Property taxes -
2006 billing (at 1998 rates) going out around the end of June.

Update on BOD elections -
everyone should be aware already - interesting that they restated the BOD make-up - I think that thi sgoes against them with the incumbants - we shall see...


----------



## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> Here's the Bay Vista one as well:
> 
> http://www.starwoodvacationownershi...sociation/WSJ/1786_BayVista_HOANewsletter.pdf
> 
> It mentions a proxy was sent for a May 17th meeting.  Did anyone receive this?  I got mine for Phase One (Hillside) but this is the first I've heard of a meeting on the same day for Bay Vista.



Looks like they are going to have the WSJ-BV HOA BOD at the same time as VG meeting. Interesting that they mention proxies for BV - especially since all of the WSJ-BV BODs are Starwood Associates - so they really control all the votes. At least we have 2 'independent' Starwood lackeys on our BOD...


----------



## jerseygirl

DavidnRobin said:


> Looks like they are going to have the WSJ-BV HOA BOD at the same time as VG meeting. Interesting that they mention proxies for BV - especially since all of the WSJ-BV BODs are Starwood Associates - so they really control all the votes. At least we have 2 'independent' Starwood lackeys on our BOD...



I suppose my BV proxy could have been lost in the mail .... but it's strange that I received my Hillside proxy but not the BV one.  You're right -- it's a meaningless vote with 3 of 3 BOD members Starwood employees.  I wonder if Starwood still owns the majority .... if so, they'll have their quorum even if things went wrong with the mailing.


----------



## tytto

Hi everyone! This is my first post and I'm glad I found this site. We arrived at WSJ yesterday (I know, I can't unplug). I attended an owner's meeting this afternoon, which we were told is the first of what will be weekly owner's meetings. Not many people showed up - I think about 12 of us, but it was a nice 1 hour information session with questions and answers at the end. The people running the meeting are listed below:

Arno Pfeffer - director of rooms
Gregory Gray - director of sales and marketing operations
John Ireland - director of villa operations

It was a basic powerpoint presentation that went over the % delinquencies, what the fees have covered and when the rest of the improvements are scheduled. (We were upgraded this week since our studio is under construction. My husband and I laughed, saying to each other that we were upgraded so the sales team can push us to buy the upgrade).  They also stated that they were looking to create a website just for owners, but now that I have read this post, I'm not sure what to think about it. 

A few owners asked about the vacant villas due to the lock outs, and provided suggestions so that it would benefit those that pay the fees. I wish I found this site earlier, so I could have asked better questions! I will be reading over this site thoroughly! (Oh, and I did send a PM with my info to add to the growing list of owners).


----------



## Carolyn

tytto said:


> Hi everyone! This is my first post and I'm glad I found this site. We arrived at WSJ yesterday (I know, I can't unplug). I attended an owner's meeting this afternoon, which we were told is the first of what will be weekly owner's meetings. Not many people showed up - I think about 12 of us, but it was a nice 1 hour information session with questions and answers at the end. The people running the meeting are listed below:
> 
> Arno Pfeffer - director of rooms
> Gregory Gray - director of sales and marketing operations
> John Ireland - director of villa operations
> 
> It was a basic powerpoint presentation that went over the % delinquencies, what the fees have covered and when the rest of the improvements are scheduled. (We were upgraded this week since our studio is under construction. My husband and I laughed, saying to each other that we were upgraded so the sales team can push us to buy the upgrade).  They also stated that they were looking to create a website just for owners, but now that I have read this post, I'm not sure what to think about it.
> 
> A few owners asked about the vacant villas due to the lock outs, and provided suggestions so that it would benefit those that pay the fees. I wish I found this site earlier, so I could have asked better questions! I will be reading over this site thoroughly! (Oh, and I did send a PM with my info to add to the growing list of owners).



Sounds like this is better than the "Owners Update"( i.e. please buy another timeshare...Bay Vista).  My husband and I were insulted last November when we attended the "Owners Update" BECAUSE THIS IS NOT AN OWNERS UPDATE. It is only a ploy to get you to buy something else. Starwood could
care less about our concerns especially when we presented our letter showing the 25% increase in maintenance fees.  They were very anxious to get rid of us!!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

tytto said:


> Hi everyone! This is my first post and I'm glad I found this site. We arrived at WSJ yesterday (I know, I can't unplug). I attended an owner's meeting this afternoon, which we were told is the first of what will be weekly owner's meetings. Not many people showed up - I think about 12 of us, but it was a nice 1 hour information session with questions and answers at the end. The people running the meeting are listed below:
> 
> Arno Pfeffer - director of rooms
> Gregory Gray - director of sales and marketing operations
> John Ireland - director of villa operations
> 
> It was a basic powerpoint presentation that went over the % delinquencies, what the fees have covered and when the rest of the improvements are scheduled. (We were upgraded this week since our studio is under construction. My husband and I laughed, saying to each other that we were upgraded so the sales team can push us to buy the upgrade).  They also stated that they were looking to create a website just for owners, but now that I have read this post, I'm not sure what to think about it.
> 
> A few owners asked about the vacant villas due to the lock outs, and provided suggestions so that it would benefit those that pay the fees. I wish I found this site earlier, so I could have asked better questions! I will be reading over this site thoroughly! (Oh, and I did send a PM with my info to add to the growing list of owners).



Welcome to TUG - read up.  This thread alone will tell you a lot of what is going on at WSJ.  They are also trip reports for different slants.
We will be there in a few weeks - we may or may not go.  No 'Owner' updates unless they offer me enough incentives - that BBQ last year was worth it - or was that the year before?


----------



## olivias dad

BBQ was last year hee hee, i thought that was just OK.  Drink coupons....blah.  And food, thank god for Miss Annas hot sauce - just sub-par in my opinion (would have rather grilled at my villa).  And the "fire people/dancers", good for 5 mins, not 60.  Honestly, while not a bad night out, just not worth being put thru the ringer...

:annoyed:


----------



## DavidnRobin

obviously you did not drink as much as us - as our photos show.  
Did you know that the bug spray they supplied - took the markings off the drink tickets. :whoopie: 

we enjoyed the band and dancing...


----------



## olivias dad

I guess the "pre-game" drinking might have helped the food tasting i guess haa haa, but no-way, we've done the "buffet on the beach" beach in other settings and its just sub-par.  I've seen ur faboulous photos of the fantastic grilling ur have done at the villa grills - would rather be there (polar bear coolers rule btw - StarFish Heirloom tomatoes do not!)


----------



## DavidnRobin

we are bringing our own tomatoes this time - lol
enjoy


----------



## tytto

Carolyn said:


> Sounds like this is better than the "Owners Update"( i.e. please buy another timeshare...Bay Vista).  My husband and I were insulted last November when we attended the "Owners Update" BECAUSE THIS IS NOT AN OWNERS UPDATE. It is only a ploy to get you to buy something else. Starwood could
> care less about our concerns especially when we presented our letter showing the 25% increase in maintenance fees.  They were very anxious to get rid of us!!!



Oh - yes, we went to the regular "Owner's Update" and there was a BIG PUSH to sell Bay Vista. I was pretty quiet through the tour (I wasn't impressed), but then the big sales pitch started once we returned (no mention of the villas AT ALL until I repeatedly asked about the prices). They've never seen a time when the developer knocked of 15-20k off prices...and of course it was for Bay Vista! Once I asked what would stop me from buying on secondary market, they mentioned the points. Then I stated that the hillside was mandatory (thanks to this thread), they laughed and stopped trying to sell. They said - yes, by all means, buy on the secondary market!

The 1 hour time ended up being 2 1/2 hours. Next year, I won't go...unless there are great incentives...this year we had a choice between $125 or 6000 points.


----------



## GeneNWendy

tytto said:


> Oh - yes, we went to the regular "Owner's Update" and there was a BIG PUSH to sell Bay Vista. I was pretty quiet through the tour (I wasn't impressed), but then the big sales pitch started once we returned (no mention of the villas AT ALL until I repeatedly asked about the prices). They've never seen a time when the developer knocked of 15-20k off prices...and of course it was for Bay Vista! Once I asked what would stop me from buying on secondary market, they mentioned the points. Then I stated that the hillside was mandatory (thanks to this thread), they laughed and stopped trying to sell. They said - yes, by all means, buy on the secondary market!
> 
> The 1 hour time ended up being 2 1/2 hours. Next year, I won't go...unless there are great incentives...this year we had a choice between $125 or 6000 points.



*Way to go Tytto!!*


----------



## DavidnRobin

BUMP

Remember to send in your proxies for the upcoming WSJ-VG BOD vote.


----------



## TimW1

DavidnRobin said:


> BUMP
> 
> Remember to send in your proxies for the upcoming WSJ-VG BOD vote.



Thanks, done.  Flying to St. John tomorrow.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Maho Bay/Campground Update*

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...ase-nears-end&catid=547:201005-news&Itemid=38

...hopefully - this land stays protected from development


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Smoking Ban*

USVI Anti-Smoking Bill signed into law.
http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/dejongh-signs-into-law-anti-smoking-racino-bills-1.781232

:whoopie:


----------



## NerdAlert

*Annual meeting May 17--Need more comments*

Schrag and Werbel won hands down. We were at the meeting, but had to leave early. Two-Great points we saw: 1. When WSJ was touting a 9.41 guest satisfaction from a random survey, no owners in the room had ever received such a survey over like 10 years...2. Starwood said there was a "unit availability" email that regularly got sent to owners, yet no owners in the room had ever received one. Starwood announced there was a computer glitch that prevented WSJ owners from receiving it but that it was corrected right then and there. BTW cookies were phenomenal!


----------



## DavidnRobin

NerdAlert said:


> Schrag and Werbel won hands down. We were at the meeting, but had to leave early. Two-Great points we saw: 1. When WSJ was touting a 9.41 guest satisfaction from a random survey, no owners in the room had ever received such a survey over like 10 years...2. Starwood said there was a "unit availability" email that regularly got sent to owners, yet no owners in the room had ever received one. Starwood announced there was a computer glitch that prevented WSJ owners from receiving it but that it was corrected right then and there. BTW cookies were phenomenal!



Wow - that is great news!  

Hopefully - a first step for a positive change for WSJ Owners and movement toward transparency and accountability.
Never saw a survey or an email on unit availability (whatever that is...)

WKORV next... ?


----------



## LisaRex

Great news!! Congrats on winning a good fight.  Good luck in taking back control of your resort.


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> Great news!! Congrats on winning a good fight.  Good luck in taking back control of your resort.



Here are the voting results as forwarded to me by Tugger GeneNWendy:

Out of 45,840 weighted votes cast, the persons who received more than 1,000 votes were:

Schrag           10,806
Werbel             9,596
DeClemente      5,056 
Peters              3,712
Heckler            1,870
Babbitt             1,792
Dixon               1,682
Selwyn             1,242

Included in the above were 1,918 votes that Pauline Carter cast for the top two Intelliscan vote getters (Schrag and Werbel).
*****

IMO - This voting shows how upset and united WSJ Owners have become:
- Not on list (>1000 votes) were the previous two 'Owner' Board members (Melissa Brookes and Walter DeCastro).
- The 2 Owners recommended by the newly formed Owner Group (and discussed/recommended here on TUG) received almost half the votes. 
- The #1 vote getter is a Tugger!

Considering how many Owners were running for the BOD - this is quite an accomplishment, and goes to show what can be done if enough Owners unite.

Power to the People!  

Now the hard part begins...


----------



## turtlesdove3

jarta said:


> Just took a look.  Schrag & Werbel certainly look like good candidates for the WSJ board.   ...   eom



Yep! they fit in very nicely but mine's with Tom.


----------



## turtlesdove3

NerdAlert said:


> Schrag and Werbel won hands down. We were at the meeting, but had to leave early. Two-Great points we saw: 1. When WSJ was touting a 9.41 guest satisfaction from a random survey, no owners in the room had ever received such a survey over like 10 years...2. Starwood said there was a "unit availability" email that regularly got sent to owners, yet no owners in the room had ever received one. Starwood announced there was a computer glitch that prevented WSJ owners from receiving it but that it was corrected right then and there. BTW cookies were phenomenal!



Good news. Keep updating and thanks for that


----------



## jarta

turtlesdove3,   ...   "Yep! they fit in very nicely but mine's with Tom."

Your what?  The election's over.  Tom DeClemente is not on the board.  Schrag and Werbel are.  Maybe next time.

"*Schrag 10,806
Werbel 9,596
DeClemente 5,056 *
Peters 3,712
Heckler 1,870
Babbitt 1,792
Dixon 1,682
Selwyn 1,242"

Not even sure how DeClemente got any votes at all, he was supposed to withdraw his candidacy in favor of Schrag and Werbel.  The email that was posted last month (No. 423 in this thread) said:

"Tom DeClemente*
Stephen C. Dixon*
Gene Jaspan**
Cathleen Noland
Clay Peters*
Philip Schrag
Robert H. Werbel

* Nominated candidate who is withdrawing his candidacy in favor of electing candidates Philip Schrag and Robert Werbel"

Plus, DeClemente was even to have been the one holding and voting Schrag and Werbel's proxies!  But, it's all over.  The old board members have been voted off the island.   ...   eom


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Clarification*



jarta said:


> turtlesdove3,   ...   "Yep! they fit in very nicely but mine's with Tom."
> 
> Your what?  The election's over.  Tom DeClemente is not on the board.  Schrag and Werbel are.  Maybe next time.
> 
> "*Schrag 10,806
> Werbel 9,596
> DeClemente 5,056 *
> Peters 3,712
> Heckler 1,870
> Babbitt 1,792
> Dixon 1,682
> Selwyn 1,242"
> 
> Not even sure how DeClemente got any votes at all, he was supposed to withdraw his candidacy in favor of Schrag and Werbel.  The email that was posted last month (No. 423 in this thread) said:
> 
> "Tom DeClemente*
> Stephen C. Dixon*
> Gene Jaspan**
> Cathleen Noland
> Clay Peters*
> Philip Schrag
> Robert H. Werbel
> 
> * Nominated candidate who is withdrawing his candidacy in favor of electing candidates Philip Schrag and Robert Werbel"
> 
> Plus, DeClemente was even to have been the one holding and voting Schrag and Werbel's proxies!  But, it's all over.  The old board members have been voted off the island.   ...   eom




Hi Jarta,

I wanted to clarify what happened during the election.  Apparently once one was put on the ballot and it was mailed out to all of the owners, you technically could not withdraw your name from it.  We did contact Starwood to see if it could be done, but they said it could not.  Once the ballots were mailed out there was no turning back.  That's why Declemente, Peters, and Dixon still got votes.  They were still officially on the ballot even though they put their support behind Philip Schrag and Bob Werbel.  You have to realize that Philip and Bob got all those votes because I sent e-mails to all 250 people in our Coalition putting our support behind them.  Imagine how Tom would have done if we put our support behind him!!  He came in third place when he didn't even vote for himself.  Hindsight is always 20/20, but I wish we put our support behind him.  The new Board members have shown no appreciation to me (only criticism for things I've done wrong) for basically handing the election to them on a silver platter without them having to any work on their own.  For your interest, Clay Peters got 4th place because he said he was a retired member of the House of Representatives.  By saying that one would think that he is a retired Congressman.  In actuality he was employed by the House of Representatives as an aide.

GeneNWendy


----------



## jarta

Gene,   ...   "Hindsight is always 20/20, but I wish we put our support behind him. The new Board members have shown no appreciation to me (only criticism for things I've done wrong) for basically handing the election to them on a silver platter without them having to any work on their own. For your interest, Clay Peters got 4th place because he said he was a retired member of the House of Representatives. By saying that one would think that he is a retired Congressman. In actuality he was employed by the House of Representatives as an aide."

Elections tend to be the same due to human nature - whatever the venue.  It seems everyone has their exaggerations and warts and information they'd rather not be made public.  Maybe Clay Peters was an aide to Mark Kirk.  lol!

I'm sorry that electing new board members (Schrag and Werbel) didn't put a lid on bickering at WSJ - at least for a while.  It's been less than 2 months since the election!

We all know that no good turn goes unpunished.  I am sorry you are disappointed.  But, before being elected to any HOA Board, those running have no obligation to anyone but themselves.  After being elected, they have a fiduciary obligation to represent and exercise their best judgment on behalf of all owners.  I hope Schrag and Werbel do so to the satisfaction of a majority of the WSJ owners.  They certainly have the credentials to do a good job.  GLTY!   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

I appreciate the effort and I am glad for the outcome. I wouldn't underestimate the TUG vote (lurking) - in looking at the overall totals - more than the coalition could account for.

I am sitting at FLL waiting for our STT flight - should be at WSJ by 6PM.  Phillip  shares one of weeks - I hope to run onto him. Also going to the townhall (maybe)


----------



## jerseygirl

Warm up a couple of bar stools for us David.  We're at the Hyatt Grand Cypress in Orlando getting over the loooong flight from HNL.  Driving to Miami this afternoon for our flight tomorrow AM.  Looking forward to meeting you and Robin!


----------



## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> Warm up a couple of bar stools for us David.  We're at the Hyatt Grand Cypress in Orlando getting over the loooong flight from HNL.  Driving to Miami this afternoon for our flight tomorrow AM.  Looking forward to meeting you and Robin!



Here... finally - but nothing compared to your travels.

getting all warmed up (or cooled down better still).  Robin LOVES the kitchen remodel. (...me too)
...and finally a shower that isn't like a sailboat head.

got video...

guess it is time for a trip report...


----------



## DeniseM

DavidnRobin said:


> ...and finally a shower that isn't like a sailboat head.
> 
> got video...




Of someone in the shower?


----------



## olivias dad

Trip report!  Pix of new renovations!?

(Anxiously waiting)


----------



## jarta

See the thread entitled "WSJ 2010 (wk 23/24) - Still is Still Moving to Me."

Lots of great videos posted by David.   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

olivias dad said:


> Trip report!  Pix of new renovations!?
> 
> (Anxiously waiting)



Trip report link is:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123157

Weak this year - I have posted what I can video-wise on YouTube.  My UW video camera is working and been spending time chasing fish - they do not seem to like having their photo taken...

I will post BV video of 2Bd loft - as soon as I can download to YouTube, but it may be a while.

Lots of mad (mad Owners)... and other strangeness - me... I am on vacation - so i skipped the Owners Meeting (with slide show...) - I don't need the stress - and from what I heard -I am glad I skipped it.  They wouldn't have answered my questions anyway.

My Owner Update was great - Mike (aka Mickey...) was totally on level - and knew exactly where I came from - the closer was another story - luckily she gave up quickly... she wouldn't give me the Owner 'deal' prices - so I am not going to report them. (check-out interview must have been a record... ~30sec)


----------



## NerdAlert

*Starwood plans WSJ Special Assessments until 2020??*

We couldn't believe it, but we went to the Monday owners meeting at 3:00 and Starwood had a slide which showed that the Virgin Grand Replacement Reserves will go on for another 9 years (at least) after this 3 year fiasco...We thought it was "3 and done!!". They were saying that from 2012 to 2020, they will be at about 52% of the initial amounts. Did anyone else get this impression from the slide show? This is a real bomb drop!! How much do we need in reserve?


----------



## Beaglemom3

Got this in today's email. Hope it's okay to post, if not, Moderator, kindly delete. Thanks !
Also, hope it's not a duplicate. I'm still trying to get the hang of Westin ownership and process all of the invaluable info on this thread.


" A Message from your Westin St. John Newly Elected Owner Representatives

Dear Fellow Owner at the Virgin Grand Villas:

We are the newly elected owner representatives on the Board of the Virgin Grand Villas – St. John Condominium Owners Association. We are writing to introduce ourselves and to let you know that we will try faithfully to represent owners’ interests on the Board. As our first step we have requested that Starwood allow us to communicate by email, as frequently as is warranted by developments affecting the villas, with you and all other owners who want such communication. So that we can most effectively represent your ownership interests, we also hope to hear your concerns, although (as our predecessors on the Board have made clear), some owners’ desires sometimes conflict with those of other owners.

You may know a little about us from the short statements on the election ballots. Philip Schrag is a law professor at Georgetown University. He was the first official Consumer Advocate of the City of New York, before beginning a full-time teaching career in 1971. He is the author or co-author of 14 books and dozens of articles on consumer protection, legal education, immigration, legal ethics, and many other subjects. He owns 3 units at Virgin Grand Villas and an every-other-year unit in Bay Vista, and he loves visiting St. John and snorkeling on the north shore with his wife Lisa Lerman (also a law professor), his four children, and his two grandchildren. His full bio is at http://www.law.georgetown.edu/faculty/facinfo/tab_faculty.cfm?Status=Faculty&ID=324 

Robert Werbel has practiced law in New York City for more than 40 years, specializing in corporate and securities laws matters, as well as issues of corporate governance involving shareholders and boards of directors. Prior to that (from 1963-67) he was an attorney with the Securities and Exchange Commission in Washington, DC. Since first becoming a Virgin Grand Villa owner in 1997, he has been enjoying St. John with his family (including children and grandchildren) as a welcome refuge from his day-to-day work as a lawyer. He was motivated to seek membership on the Virgin Grand Villas Board out of concern, shared with many other villa unit owners, over rapidly rising maintenance costs and certain of Starwood’s priorities that appear to be at variance with the interests of the owners. 

We have each set up a dedicated email address to communicate with owners.

Phil Schrag - phil.schrag@gmail.com

Bob Werbel - robert.werbel@yahoo.com

June 2010 "

Beaglemom3 Owner WSJ week 32 Villa 3319


----------



## LisaRex

How nice to receive communication from the board.  Great start!

Crossing my fingers that WSJ (and all Starwood boards) will start to represent owners' interests!


----------



## J&JFamily

Beaglemom3 said:


> Got this in today's email. Hope it's okay to post, if not, Moderator, kindly delete. Thanks !
> Also, hope it's not a duplicate. I'm still trying to get the hang of Westin ownership and process all of the invaluable info on this thread
> Beaglemom3 Owner WSJ week 32 Villa 3319



Hi Beaglemom3, this is an irrelevant post...but I just noticed your avatar (take a look at mine!!).  See you Thursday...Lakers in 7.   

Sorry Denise, I know that I'm not supposed to post irrelevant posts but I couldn't help myself when I saw Beaglemom3's avatar.


----------



## Beaglemom3

J&JFamily said:


> Hi Beaglemom3, this is an irrelevant post...but I just noticed your avatar (take a look at mine!!).  See you Thursday...Lakers in 7.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Denise, I know that I'm not supposed to post irrelevant posts but I couldn't help myself when I saw Beaglemom3's avatar.




J&J PM me so we do not derail the thread (and for a friendly wager !).

Sorry, Denise, me too. Have to respond here as,  like the Celtics, I have no defense..... Please feel free to delete. 

Youcha-wawa !  
:rofl: 

 Oh, you are SO right ! After last night's trouncing I am thinking of putting back my BoSox Avatar, however, I don't change colors during battle.

Simply put, you guys were awesome and we were really, really, really bad.

We are planning on turing it around on Thursday.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Beaglemom - Thanks for posting - you beat me to it.

This was also received as a letter left at our villa front-door.

WSJ-VG (Hillside) Owners - please send you contact info (if you want to stay informed) to:

Phil Schrag - phil.schrag@gmail.com
Bob Werbel - robert.werbel@yahoo.com

NerdAlert - good to meet you and family at Honeymoon Beach (what a beautiful day - one of many).  I did not attend the Owners Meeting (didn't need the stress - especially from what I heard).  Could you post (or PM me and I will) the contact info for the SVO/WSJ management that were present?


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding the meeting*



NerdAlert said:


> We couldn't believe it, but we went to the Monday owners meeting at 3:00 and Starwood had a slide which showed that the Virgin Grand Replacement Reserves will go on for another 9 years (at least) after this 3 year fiasco...We thought it was "3 and done!!". They were saying that from 2012 to 2020, they will be at about 52% of the initial amounts. Did anyone else get this impression from the slide show? This is a real bomb drop!! How much do we need in reserve?




Hi Nerd Alert,

Do you recall who presented this meeting?  Did anyone notify you that the meeting was going to take place?  The reason I ask is that I've been in touch with several owners who are currently down in St. John and didn't even know that there was going to be a meeting.  Also, one of the new Board members, Phil Schrag is down in St. John now through the end of next week.  Do you recall seeing him there?

In case you don't already know, I have started the *St John Virgin Grand Villa Owners' Coalition*  We are a group that began with about 40 people last September and are currently at 300 (and growing).  We are a group of people very upset with the escalating fees and deterioration of service.  It was our groups efforts that got Bob and Phil elected.  It's a step in the right direction, but we have a long way to go.  If you, or anyone else reading this, is interested in joining our Coalition, please send me a private message with the following info:

1. Name
2. E-Mail address
3. Regular mail address
4. Contact Telephone Number
5. Week # (s) owned at WSJ
6. Unit # (s) owned at WSJ

This information will be kept confidential.  Once you provide it to me, I will send you more info about our group and a link to our owner's website.

Regards,
GeneNWendy


----------



## DavidnRobin

Gene - For me: I received a phone message when we arrived for week 23 - they are taking place on Monday Afternoons.  I spoke to few Owners who attended and came away pretty dissatisfied, and some confusion about reserves and SVO discontinuing WSJ-VG subsidy (which has impacted MFs).

One of the main WSJ presenters was Director of Rooms - Arno Pfeffer (arno.pfeffer@westin.com) - the presenters handed out biz cards.

Arno was deluged with contacts during week 23 regarding an issue with a local family staying in B33 that was abusing their resort priviledges that had about 18 people using the upper pool to throw a party on Saturday - plus unsupervised children (<14yo) for a few days.


----------



## GeneNWendy

DavidnRobin said:


> Gene - For me: I received a phone message when we arrived for week 23 - they are taking place on Monday Afternoons.  I spoke to few Owners who attended and came away pretty dissatisfied, and some confusion about reserves and SVO discontinuing WSJ-VG subsidy (which has impacted MFs).
> 
> One of the main WSJ presenters was Director of Rooms - Arno Pfeffer (arno.pfeffer@westin.com) - the presenters handed out biz cards.
> 
> Arno was deluged with contacts during week 23 regarding an issue with a local family staying in B33 that was abusing their resort priviledges that had about 18 people using the upper pool to throw a party on Saturday - plus unsupervised children (<14yo) for a few days.



*Dave,

I e-mailed what Nerd Alert said to our entire Coalition of 300 people.  Most people were rightfully upset.  However this is the reponse of one of the other owners who attended that same meeting.  I can give you his name in a regular e-mail.

Regards,
Gene*


This is so typical of your e-mails and members of your group to take a positive step by Starwood to present the facts and try to turn it around to a negative. The meeting was very positive and presented the facts of the budget. It was attended by me and also Phillip your new board member. Did the party below really believe that there would be no more replacement reserves in the budget going forward. There will always be replacement reserves required. They are projecting that the fees will go down after next year as we were told in the past. They also talked about the defaulting owners fees and how they are working to get ownership of the weeks so they can be sold and the money will go back to the owners. They have had success with getting owners this year to deed the weeks back without having to go the two year foreclosure process. They also indicated that the past due accounts account for about $200 of our fees per week. The information presented the facts and was very easy to understand. I believe the financial are audited every year. Maybe you should get a copy.


I also read your letter and you continue to state things that are not facts. The board did try to pass a special assessment to do the refurbishing and it was not approved because of a quorum. But the vote was overwhelmingly in favor of the the request since the units were 20 years old and in dire need of work.
The results of the vote and the process were explained at the meeting. The board does not need a vote to set the assessments on a yearly basis.
As for the unpaid fees, who do you think is going to take care of them until the week is sold and the money given to the owners? In regard to the privacy laws, they have changed dramatically since 1989. In regards to hiring a private company to manage the units I think this would be very negative for the project and the owners in many ways. I do not thing this represents the majority of the owners. This really seems to be your agenda directed by Tom and your secret group of seven with private conference calls to set your agenda to take over the board. I hope Phil and Bob are not still taking part in this group.


There are many things that we should be working on to make this the best time share project going forward. Cost control is always a priority and on going process. Your negative slant and hidden agenda will work against the majority of the owners for years and make this a project that will be considered as having problems, further eroding the values. Why not try to work with Starwood to formulate a plan that benefits all the owners.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Hi Gene - gotta run to our anniversary dinner at Asolare, but wanted to quickly respond (but will expound upon later).  I just spoke with NerdAlert at the resort (we seem to kept running into one another) - I think the important difference is in the terms used.  There always have been replacement reserves - NA heard this as a continuation of the Special Assessment.  If I understood correctly - the RR will be an average of ~$450/voi - I'd have to check what they were previously.  What these reserves will be - and the overall impact of Deliquencies, and the loss of SVO subsidy (etc.) have on the MFs is of key importance - hopefully - a little sunlight will help - I plan to do what I can (as always).

Given all that is going on - this has been our greatest STJ/WSJ vacation so far (sans MFs and Spirit costing me $1500)...  wish I had kept a better trip report - but took me a while to refresh... later


----------



## NerdAlert

We heard about the owner's meeting from the sales department, but some people in attendance said they got emailed about it. We had some questions that our salesperson recommended we ask at the owner's meeting. It was actually great to see some communication from Starwood instead of a Monday social where anybody could stroll in. It was primarily run by Mike Ryan, but John Ireland was also there. The meeting was very informative, pleasant, and had refreshments. John was told of some issues and was right on them and had great info about when future maintenance things were going to be done. Don't misunderstand, these meetings are a great thing!

Professor Schrag was there and introduced himself and handed out contact info and gave a plug to TUG. Go Phil! The only thing that shocked us was the slide that showed the average Replacement Reserve will go from $782 for the average unit to $407 for the average unit from 2012 until 2020. I don't know if that is the same terminology as the "special assessment" or not, that's why I was seeking a second opinion from others. (A local St. John Realtor describes the special assessment as Reserve Replacement fee) If it is a 9-yr continuation of the special assessment, then I think this is a major issue. Between these increasing fees and a bad economy the rental possibilities for our WSJ villas are severely strained. 

I just wanted to make other WSJ owners aware of something that needed clarification. If these types of things turn into a cyclone and people get nasty, then we're outta TUG. 

It was great meeting David and Robin at last. Hopefully you guys get home safely. We actually got you guys some Spirit Airlines Snuggies for Christmas, but maybe we'll have to return them now!


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Westin St John - Dock Permit Renewed*

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/westin-dock-permit-renewed-1.854697

*Westin Dock Permit Renewed*
By ALDETH LEWIN, reporter, Daily News Staff 
Published: June 19, 2010 

ST. JOHN — A major Coastal Zone Management permit renewal for a dock at the Westin Resort on St. John was approved by the Senate Environmental Protection Committee on Friday.

The renewal of the 20-year CZM permit is for the existing 180-foot dock in Great Cruz Bay. 

Part of the permit renewal includes allowing the Westin to dredge 650 cubic yards of sand from around the dock to bring the water depth in the area to 8 feet. The material will be spread out and dried on the property and then used by the resort.  

Sen. Adlah Donastorg Jr. asked if the sand material was tested. Acting CZM Division Assistant Director Jean Pierre Oriel said that it was not. He said the Department of Planning and Natural Resources’ Division of Environmental Protection uses its discretion in requiring dredge-material testing. 

Oriel said because the area in question has never been used in an industrial way, such as for a marina, the testing was not needed. 

“There is nothing that says this is a mandatory thing that has to happen,” he said about testing.

Oriel said the dredging will take about two weeks, weather permitting. 

The permit also allows for five water toys — a floating trampoline and other inflatables — for the resort’s use. The Westin has also offered to fund five buoys to be placed in the bay at DPNR’s discretion. 

The former annual fee for the dock permit was $7,400 and the new proposed annual fee will be $28,000. 

During questioning by Donastorg, it was revealed that a mandatory reclamation fee of $1 per cubic yard that is required of all dredging projects was not assessed to the Westin project. 

Oriel said it was an oversight and would be corrected in the final fee negotiations. Westin General Manager Mike Ryan said he had no problem paying the fee. 

The four committee members who approved the application were Donastorg, Sen. Shawn-Michael Malone, Sen. Sammuel Sanes and Sen. Patrick Simeon Sprauve. Sen. Alvin Williams Jr., Sen. Carlton Dowe and Sen. Michael Thurland were absent.

The St. John CZM Committee previously approved the permit application in 2006, and it has been signed by the governor. Senate ratification of the permit is the final step to approval. All 15 senators must vote on the application in full session.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ-VG Update*

bump...

I was able to meet with new WSJ-VG BOD member (and Tugger) Phil Schrag during our stay at WSJ last week.  It was good to see Phil again (he and I own the same week) as a knew him from our previous visits.

Please make sure you send your info [name, email, villa(s), and week(s)] to Phil even if you have already sent your info to Gene (Tugger: GeneNWendy) since Phil and Bob's contact info list may not be teh same as put together by GeneNWendy.

again - the new BOD members are:

Phil Schrag - phil.schrag@gmail.com
Bob Werbel - robert.werbel@yahoo.com

please make sure you send them your info (and tell other Owners that you know) - it is important that WSJ-VG Owners continue to form a coalition.  IMO - the 1st step needs improve Owner-to-Owner Communications that will hopefuly translate to improved transparency between the HOA and SVO/WSJ.

It was interesting that SVO/WSJ allowed Phil and Bob to use their email distribution list (great 1st step), but would not supply them the info (privacy issues).  This was reflected in the above post by Beaglemom.  The problem is (as I have 1st hand knowledge) is that the SVO/WSJ database is quite poor - therefore, not all Owners may have received this notification.

Even if you are totally satisfied with your WSJ-VG Ownership and SVO/WSJ - it is still important to send Phil your contact info in order to stay informed and voice your opinion (if you care to).

IMO-IMO-IMO - I think Phil and Bob will have to walk a fine line between Owners and the SVO-controlled BOD (SVO has 3 of 5 associates on the BOD) while issues get worked out - and therefore patience is of importance.  What has transpired over many years will take time to make paradigm shift in the relationship between SVO/WSJ and Owners via the HOA BOD.  I do not suspect that Phil will direct post to TUG (but I know he reads TUG), but I will keep Tuggers informed as I can (as I have always tried to do) with issues pertainent to STJ and WSJ as I become aware of them.  

Also - as always - feel free to post here - or PM me if you want to stay private - about questions/issues/concerns/observations that you have about happens at WSJ or STJ.  I will be happy to address them.

see my recent trip report here: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123157
{weaker than teh past ones - but some cool videos}

In the meantime - enjoy your WSJ Ownership - it is a great resort on a beautiful island - I wish I could spend more time there...


----------



## DavidnRobin

*NOAA (water and air temp data) for STJ*

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/da...al Observations&format=View+Plot&plot_backup=

This is pretty cool - shows the water and air temp for STJ (at Lameshur Bay - SE part of island). The water temp is around 85F - nice...

Article on VIERS project at Lameshur - where I got the above link - there will be a waterwater cam when it is up an running

http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_...install-underwater-webcam-on-south-shore.html


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Suggestion for those not afraid to drive in St John*

I just got back from a week at the Westin with my wife and another couple.  Since the Westin ferry currently runs $110.00 round trip per person with no owner discount, I wanted to check a few options.  First, I called a few car rental places on St. John (at least we would save money on cab fare to town and the beaches).  I must have waited too close to my trip to book, because there was no availability at anyplace that I called.  Furthermore, if there was availability, it would have run $70 to $100 a day.  Finally, I decided to contact some rental places at the airport.  I found out that Avis and Budget were the only agencies that allowed you to take your car over to St John.  In any case, I was quoted a price of $430 for the entire week.  This was for a Toyota Camry.  For a little more I could have gotten an SUV.  The experience was great.  It took about 40 minutes to drive to the car ferry barge in Red Hook (they basically run every half hour between 8:00am and 8:00pm) and cost $45.00 r/t (no additional cost for passengers).  Once we got off in St. John, we were right around the corner from the Starfish market and about a 5 minute drive from the Westin.  So for less than the cost of the Westin ferry for 4 adults, we had a rental car for the entire week.  I don't think I'll ever go back to using the Westin ferry unless I ever have some reason to go down alone.


----------



## LisaRex

FYI, what are the MFs for a 2 and 3 bdrm unit at WSJ?  I'm trying to compare apples to apples vs. the cost of ownership at WKORV.  We love, love Hawaii but the time change and travel time is much easier on us in the Caribbean. 

I'm assuming new owners won't owe the past due property taxes...?


----------



## jarta

LisaRex,   ...   "I'm assuming new owners won't owe the past due property taxes...?"

Your assumption is wrong.  Past due taxes are a lien on the property, the liability transfers with the property and must be paid by the new owner.   ...   eom


----------



## gregb

LisaRex said:


> FYI, what are the MFs for a 2 and 3 bdrm unit at WSJ?  I'm trying to compare apples to apples vs. the cost of ownership at WKORV.  We love, love Hawaii but the time change and travel time is much easier on us in the Caribbean.
> 
> I'm assuming new owners won't owe the past due property taxes...?



If you buy, you should negotiate how to pay the past due taxes.  Of course, you probably want to get that money up front by negotiating a lower price.  After the sale closes, you have little leverage to get the previous owner to pay the past due taxes.  As Jarta says, it is a lien on the property, so once the property is recorded in your name, you are on the hook for it.

Greg


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> FYI, what are the MFs for a 2 and 3 bdrm unit at WSJ?  I'm trying to compare apples to apples vs. the cost of ownership at WKORV.  We love, love Hawaii but the time change and travel time is much easier on us in the Caribbean.
> 
> I'm assuming new owners won't owe the past due property taxes...?



Are you looking at Hillside or Bay View MFs? There is a difference in both villa type and MFs.

As to Prop Tax - they will be due back to 2006 when due. The 2006 taxes are going to be billed soon w/ 2007 later this year. As to a lien... This is the USVI so things move at a different pace.

The Prop Tax for 2006 will be at the 1998 rate


----------



## DavidnRobin

Gene is correct - if you rent for STJ - do it on STT and take car barge - easy. I wrote about this in my trip report. There are more agencies off the airport, but will pick you up at STT. The biggest issue is getting the vehicle you want - we paid $740 for 14 days (Jeep 2dr - we used the 4WD but go places where it is needed eg Lameshur Bay)


----------



## LisaRex

The property tax issue is very troubling and I'll pass on doing anything until that matter gets resolved.  I don't want to be left holding the bag for 4 years of property taxes on a property I didn't even own.


----------



## jarta

LisaRex,   ...   Taxes on St. John are not like Maui.  4 years of taxes would probably run less than $1,200 (David would know better) for a 2-br TH.  Is $1,200 a deal killer for you?  But, of course, it's your money and your decision.

And, over time, you would have no control over tax increases.

The bigger issue at St. John (Hillside) is that Starwood subsidized the timeshares to the tune of $2.87M during 2007 ($1.978M) and 2008 ($892K).  That obviously cannot continue.   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> The property tax issue is very troubling and I'll pass on doing anything until that matter gets resolved.  I don't want to be left holding the bag for 4 years of property taxes on a property I didn't even own.



I had the Sellers compensate me for the past property taxes - waiting for the USVI Gov't to work out the Property Taxes could take years - considering they are behind 4 years as it is.

Added - the taxes will approximately double.  

The Starwood subsidy has ended from what I heard.


----------



## jarta

David,   ...   "The Starwood subsidy has ended from what I heard."

So, is that a good or bad thing?  In other words, without the Starwood subsidy, how will the budget be balanced?   ...   eom


----------



## NerdAlert

That's an easy one Jarta, just tap the "bottomless wallets" of us owners for the difference. And, oh yeah, through in the costs of all the deadbeats, but don't let the owners have any benefits in return...like rental income, usage priorities, or chances at ownership of those weeks.


----------



## jarta

nerdAlert,   ...   "That's an easy one Jarta, just tap the "bottomless wallets" of us owners for the difference. And, oh yeah, through in the costs of all the deadbeats, but don't let the owners have any benefits in return...like rental income, usage priorities, or chances at ownership of those weeks."

I think you being a little "flip."  If there is a reason for a developer subsidy of $2.9M in 2 years to balance the books at WSJ, there is something quite wrong in Paradise.  Some more from the calendar 2008 audit (p. 15):

Budgeted MF: $5,716,105  Actual MF: $5,715,889  Difference: $216.

Budgeted Developer Subsidy:  $2,194,770  Actual Developer Subsidy:  $1,978,206  Difference:  $216,564.

Your answer doesn't really address whether the ending of the WSJ developer subsidy a good or a bad thing?  Or, how the bills are going to be paid without the subsidy?  Or, one I didn't specifically ask:  Why in the world is there a subsidy at all?

Maybe I'm missing something.  Could you enlighten me?  I was seriously considering buying something there, but if the development needed $1-1.5M every year to stay afloat and it's no longer there, why do it?  Maybe I'd be better off taking my chance and trading into BV (or maybe Hillside if something turns up) using Staroptions from a lower MF resort.

I thought I asked a serious question.  I thought I'd get a less frivolous answer.     ...   eom


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## Ken555

The entire developer subsidy concept is flawed, in my view. I've been told its to help new resorts during active sales, but inevitably there appear to be dramatically rising MFs and, on occasion, special assessments at those resorts once the subsidy slows or ends altogether. Speaking generically, developer subsidy is not a good thing, as it appears to artificially change the budget of a resort.

Am I wrong?


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## Captron

Ken, I believe you are right on. It is flawed from an owners perspective, not from a developers perspective when trying to make sales.

I thought subsidies were a common thing during build out and active sales to keep MF down and not scare away potential purchasers. That is just one more thing NOT disclosed during sales presentations. Once the resort is mostly or completely sold the subsidy phases out/disappears and the owners are indeed left holding the bag (as empty as it may be) and often end up with large increases in MF as a result.

It is also a way to (artificially) maintain the <5% annual increases in MF they often mention during sales presentations.


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## DavidnRobin

How would removal of the Starwood subsidy benefit owners in any way? (unless it meant that we got voting control of the BOD - which we don't)

There is no benefit for the Owners that I can think of....  I only see it as a way to keep MFs artificially suppressed while active sales were going on, but perhaps there is some unforeseen benefit.

Now - no subsidy for WSJ VG - but still 3 of 5 SVO associates on the BOD... (must be nice...)

Ken - you are not wrong IMO.  The problem is that it is not discussed in an open/honest way (again - lack of transparency).  The yearly revenues/expenses listings (that goes to the annual MFs) has always has a line item for this subsidy with a small footnote that the Starwood can end at anytime - but was unclear of the impact - now we have an idea.

I recall (from memory) that this was ~$160/week for the 2Bd TH.  (I would have to check in my files to see if this is correct).


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## GeneNWendy

*Timeshares and subsidies*

The developer subsidy is one of the biggest "scams" in the entire timeshare industry, not just Starwood.  During the selling period, the developer will kick in a certain amount of money to artificially keep maintenance fees lower than what is actually needed to run it.  This way they can attract new owners by showing how low the maintenance fees are currently.  Go to a sales presentation anywhere and I guarantee they will not disclose to you that the fees are eventually going to go up.

Our problem at Westin Virgin Grand Villas in 2010 was threefold:

1. We are in the midst of this "upgrade" project, which alone has increased our fees by 40%
2. The developer chose this point in time to remove their subsidy, as we are 90% sold and no longer in the "selling" period.
3. We are paying additional MF's for those owners that defaulted under the premise that our timeshare is run like a condominium.

This is why Bay Vista maintenance fees are much less than those at Virgin Grand Villas.  The developer is kicking in a subsidy as they are still trying to sell those units.  Also, since they are new, there are no upgrades yet.  Believe me, any Bay Vista owner that is happy now is in for a rude awakening.  Once the developer removes his subsidy and they need upgrades, their fees will be similar to what we are currently paying at Virgin Grand Villas.  Additionally, they do not have private pools nor the ability to park a rental vehicle close to their unit.  I truly feel sorry for those that purchased there.

At least there is a law on the Virgin Island's books that the owner's should have majority control of their villas once they become 75% owner occupied.  Starwood is going to try and fight that indefinitely, but with 2 new owners on the board who happen to be attorneys along with over 1,000 upset owners, I do not know how long Starwood will get away with this.  They may have the best legal team around, but no matter how good they are, they can't change the law.

GeneNWendy


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## jerseygirl

Gene --

I think many of the Bay Vista buyers are Phase One owners as well (and, as such, probably do understand the implications of the subsidy).  Heck, while we have it, it's free money -- I certainly won't turn it down.  

I won't presume to speak for other owners of both phases, but we added to our ownership in Bay Vista for one reason and one reason only:  Flexibility.  I am thrilled that we can go any week in our season by calling a year in advance.  

Do I like my pool villa better?  Sure.  But, I'll give up that parking space for flexibility anyday. 

-- Jerseygirl


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## jarta

Does anyone know if the developer subsidy was an annual thing for many years or a recent occurrence put into place for funding of the reserve fund?  I was told that by the time the repairs were set to be started for the VG section, there was no money in the reserve fund.  Thus, Starwood advanced the money to get the repairs underway.

Is this version of facts true?  If not, what is the truth?   ...   eom


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## Fredm

In every case I am aware of, developer subsidies are required by law. These subsidies are intended to cover the prorated portion of fees during the sales phase of the project. Units built and registered for sale obliges the developer to pay fees (including taxes) on built but unsold intervals. This is why subsidies end at sell out, or some approximate time.

I do not know how this specifically applies to WSJ. Or, if it applies at all. Just saying, the subsidy is likely tied to built but unsold inventory. Because it is a prorated expense, based on projections from year to year, the subsidy may end before or after the actual sell out of the resort. Developers try to not overbuild in advance of sales for this reason.


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## Ken555

Fredm said:


> In every case I am aware of, developer subsidies are required by law. These subsidies are intended to cover the prorated portion of fees during the sales phase of the project. Units built and registered for sale obliges the developer to pay fees (including taxes) on built but unsold intervals. This is why subsidies end at sell out, or some approximate time.



Thanks, Fred. This makes a lot of sense now. In this instance, it's not really a subsidy but simply the developer MFs for the unsold units. I think the word "subsidy" implies other meaning than simply the developers requirement to pay MFs on their own unsold inventory...


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## Fredm

Ken555 said:


> Thanks, Fred. This makes a lot of sense now. In this instance, it's not really a subsidy but simply the developer MFs for the unsold units. I think the word "subsidy" implies other meaning than simply the developers requirement to pay MFs on their own unsold inventory...



Yes, you said it more simply. But, the developer is not actually paying a one-for-one maintenance fee. For example, the taxes are different (lower) on unsold units. They are valued at land improvement cost, not sale price. Likewise, unsold standing inventory is not allocated the same housekeeping costs. They do share common area expense and so forth on a similar rationale.
The principle is the same as you suggest, however.

In theory, once units are sold the subsidy is replaced by the maintenance fees of an owner. But, because the subsidy does not reflect the actual cost to the association, there is usually an increase in m/f's once the subsidy ends.


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## DavidnRobin

Very interesting discussion on subsidies.

So - to look at it another way (which could be misguided) - there are 3 types of SVO-controlled VOIs:
1) Being built - but not ready for occupancy
2) Unsold by SVO - ready for occupancy, but SVO gets value by SVN/II exchanges, rentals, or Sales usage.
3) SVO owned

Type 1 make sense to have a SVO subsidy - but it would be interesting to know more about Types 2 and 3.

Type 2 is able to be used by SVO for SVN exchanges, II exchanges, Renting and Sales usage - why would it be subsidized?

...and why would Type 3 get subsidized at all? (~10% of WSJ-VG is this type)

So... why would there be any SVO subsidy for WSJ-VG for the past 5+ years since all villas have essentially been owned by Owners or by SVO (except for a few in inventory) during this time - yet the subsidy just ended?

interesting - comments?

I still need to dig out the past 5 years of WSJ MF bills to look at the %subsidy per VOI MF.


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## Fredm

I would think that your type 1 would not receive any subsidy.

Type 2 would. 

I don't know about type 3. Depends on how the subsidy was amortized. Shared facilities that overlap HOA's may be a reason, but I don't know enough about St John to make a good guess.


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## jarta

Fredm,   ...   The maintenance fees are designated separately and the notes talk about Starwood having paid all but $100 of the MF on the 10% still owned by Starwood.

The developer subsidy is something completely separate.  It was almost $2.9M for 2008 and 2009.  I asked if anyone *knew* if this subsidy was contributed by Starwood because there was no money in the reserve fund to do the rehab.  That is what I was told when I was at WSJ.

If Starwood fronted the money for the rehab and the rehab is nearing completion, that would be a good reason for the developer subsidy to end.  What could be happening is that the extra 3-yr special assessment that ends in 2011 is being collected to repay the developer subsidy and, after 2011, the MF will have to include money for the next rehab which will be deposited in the reserve fund.

I asked if anyone *knew*.  Despite all the heat about MF at WSJ, apparently nobody *knows*.

It makes a difference for 2 reasons.  First, Starwood fronting the repairs would show that Starwood bailed out the association in a time of dire need.  And, second, if the association cannot survive without a developer subsidy, why would I (or anyone) buy at WSJ Hillside (AKA VG)?   ...   eom


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## Fredm

jarta said:


> Fredm,   ...   The maintenance fees are designated separately and the notes talk about Starwood having paid all but $100 of the MF on the 10% still owned by Starwood.
> 
> The developer subsidy is something completely separate.  It was almost $2.9M for 2008 and 2009.  I asked if anyone *knew* if this subsidy was contributed by Starwood because there was no money in the reserve fund to do the rehab.  That is what I was told when I was at WSJ.
> 
> If Starwood fronted the money for the rehab and the rehab is nearing completion, that would be a good reason for the developer subsidy to end.  What could be happening is that the extra 3-yr special assessment that ends in 2011 is being collected to repay the developer subsidy and, after 2011, the MF will have to include money for the next rehab which will be deposited in the reserve fund.
> 
> I asked if anyone *knew*.  Despite all the heat about MF at WSJ, apparently nobody *knows*.
> 
> It makes a difference for 2 reasons.  First, Starwood fronting the repairs would show that Starwood bailed out the association in a time of dire need.  And, second, if the association cannot survive without a developer subsidy, why would I (or anyone) buy at WSJ Hillside (AKA VG)?   ...   eom



Yes, I can read. 

From my post:
"I do not know how this specifically applies to WSJ. Or, if it applies at all."


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## jarta

Although the post was addressed to you because you were the only one who replied, it appears nobody who owns at WSJ knows whats going on - or will let on that they know.

You were only providing general information.  General information is always good.  

I was not criticizing you personally.  It was more frustration at the people who are complaining that MF at WSJ are too high but do not seem to know that there was a massive developer subsidy by Starwood in excess of MF paid on unsold units.  I was told it was to front the cost of the repairs because the reserve fund was nearly broke.  

If it was and, therefore, was a temporary thing, the developer subsidy ending is a wash and will be covered by the 3-year special assessment.  If the resort was surviving on permanent developer subsidies and they are now gone, that is quite a different thing - an indication that the resort is in real trouble and probably cannot survive without a developer subsidy.

Anyone who has specific knowledge about what the total $2.9M 2008 and 2009 developer subsidy in addition to MF was used for, feel free to add information.   ...   eom


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## DavidnRobin

I do know one thing (well... two things , but the 2nd is against TUG rules to say aloud) - the subsidy had nothing to do with the refurbish.  The subsidy has been around longer than the refurbish plans - even the 1st one.  btw - the 1st one was paid for with a doubling of the replacement reserves one year.

...as always stated - transparency (and lack of) is the one thing I would like to see change at all my VOIs, but I refuse to harp on the past (as it is a waste of time/energy) and look forward to having improved transparency in the future.  If not, Bob and Phil will hear from me the same as the SVO-puppets that we recently voted off the WSJ-VG board (in effect).


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## DavidnRobin

Fredm said:


> I would think that your type 1 would not receive any subsidy.
> 
> Type 2 would.
> 
> I don't know about type 3. Depends on how the subsidy was amortized. Shared facilities that overlap HOA's may be a reason, but I don't know enough about St John to make a good guess.



As always - thanks for the response Fred - curious to know why Type 1 would not be a subsidy - to me that would be exactly what the subsidy would justify (in building phase, but not ready to occupy - therefore carry the HOA until the VOIs could be used).

For type 2 - interesting that the HOA gets a subsidy.  The amortization reasoning is an interesting one.

I would put little trust in what a salesperson's explanation on this topic (other than try to gleen what is the truth and what is the misinfo).  I did just email the wife (aka Robin) to get out the MFs bills for WSJ out of storage - it would be interesting to see the subsidy level over the years.  I am more interested in the $subsidy per VOI rather than the overall (since the overall means little to me)


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## Fredm

DavidnRobin said:


> As always - thanks for the response Fred - curious to know why Type 1 would not be a subsidy - to me that would be exactly what the subsidy would justify (in building phase, but not ready to occupy - therefore carry the HOA until the VOIs could be used).
> 
> For type 2 - interesting that the HOA gets a subsidy.  The amortization reasoning is an interesting one.
> 
> I would put little trust in what a salesperson's explanation on this topic (other than try to gleen what is the truth and what is the misinfo).  I did just email the wife (aka Robin) to get out the MFs bills for WSJ out of storage - it would be interesting to see the subsidy level over the years.  I am more interested in the $subsidy per VOI rather than the overall (since the overall means little to me)



A "Subsidy Contract" exists between the developer and the HOA.

Called the "Developer's Duty to Pay"

I quote:

" The Developer also promises to pay the Assessment and Personal Charges for each Vacation Ownership Interest while the Developer is the Owner of it.
*Instead of doing so, however, the Developer may enter into a 'Subsidy Contract' with the Association in which the Developer agrees to pay the Association the difference between the actual cost incurred by the Association and the Assessments charged to other Owners."*

OK, so per my earlier explanation, the developer pays fees for built but unsold units. However the fee is only the difference that represents non-impact use. 

The above language was lifted from the WKORV Governing Documents. 
I can only assume (as I do not have the WSJ docs) that similar language exists. I do not know how the Subsidy Contract itself reads. Like all contracts between the developer and the HOA, it would have to be obtained from the HOA. Good luck with that one. But, you can bet that one exists.

Re; why not type 1, it is the development phase. No units yet exist. The developer is entirely responsible for the costs associated with construction, taxes, and legal formation. Once a building is released previously sold owners pay HOA fees on the sold intervals, and the Developer pays a subsidy to the HOA on remaining unsold units, per the Subsidy Contract formula.

The developer subsidy seems to always understate the impact the fees
theoretically mitigate. I draw that conclusion from my observation that HOA fees always seem to increase once the subsidy ends.
Again, I am not familiar enough with WSJ to make this a blanket statement  applicable to WSJ. Just would not be the least surprised.


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## jarta

Here is what the WSJ (VG) audited calendar 2008 statement says:

"NOTE 10 - RELATED PARTY TRANSACTIONS
The Association has entered into an agreement with Starwood Vacation Exchange Company (“SVEC” f/k/a
Westin Vacation Exchange Company), an affiliate of the developer and the management company, in which SVEC
has established a mandatory exchange program and related services known as the Starwood Vacation Club (the
“Club”) for the purpose of providing a means by which several owners of record of ownership interest in the resort
and vacation ownership interests in any other resort that is affiliated or associated with the Club (“Affiliated Resorts”),
reserve the use of accommodations and related facilities of the resort and the other Affiliated Resorts, and have access
to any benefits which the Club may provide from time to time, all in accordance with, and as restricted by, the terms
of the Club as set forth in the Agreement and Disclosure Guide for the Club as it is promulgated, adopted, or amended from time to time. As of December 31, 2008 and 2007, *the amount due from SVN Operator for club dues over remitted by the Association was $763 and $69, respectively*, and is netted against accrued expenses on the balance sheet.

In addition, the affiliation agreement noted above calls for the SVN Operator to allocate the total net rental proceeds, if any, 50% each to the SVN Operator and Association until the Association receives an amount of rental proceeds equal to 2.5% of the Association’s annual budget for each fiscal year. During the years ended December 31, 2008 ad 2007, the total proceeds allocated to the Association were $31,619 and $92,070, respectively. As of December 31, 2008 and 2007, the amount of proceeds not yet remitted by the SVN Operator to the Association was $4,469 and $36,589, respectively, and is shown as accounts receivable - other on the balance sheet."

However, under NOTE 4, the following is included:

"During the years ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, the amount of maintenance fees assessed to the developer for operations and replacements were $580,994 and $75,079, and $538,846 and $64,231, respectively. *Total cash payments made to the Association by the developer, for these assessments were $656,073 and $603,077 in 2008
and 2007, respectively. In addition, the developer elected to voluntarily subsidize specified line items in the budget
resulting in developer subsidy revenue of $1,978,206 and $892,090 for the years ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, respectively. The Association derived approximately 31% and 22% of its revenue from the developer during the years
ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, respectively."*

The developer subsidy is clearly not MF, or MF-related.   ...   eom


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## Fredm

jarta said:


> Here is what the WSJ (VG) audited calendar 2008 statement says:
> 
> 
> However, under NOTE 4, the following is included:
> 
> "During the years ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, the amount of maintenance fees assessed to the developer for operations and replacements were $580,994 and $75,079, and $538,846 and $64,231, respectively. *Total cash payments made to the Association by the developer, for these assessments were $656,073 and $603,077 in 2008
> and 2007, respectively. In addition, the developer elected to voluntarily subsidize specified line items in the budget
> resulting in developer subsidy revenue of $1,978,206 and $892,090 for the years ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, respectively. The Association derived approximately 31% and 22% of its revenue from the developer during the years
> ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, respectively."*
> 
> The developer subsidy is clearly not MF, or MF-related.   ...   eom



Seems to be the case. Actually, 'voluntarily subsidize" takes my breath away. A fee increase is a sure thing when that ends, unless it was a transient shortfall related to how the subsidy contract was originally constructed.


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## jarta

Fredm,   ...   "A fee increase is a sure thing when that ends, unless it was a transient shortfall related to how the subsidy contract was originally constructed."

That's why I said I was told that the subsidy was to front the renovation at VG because there was a depleted reserve fund.  I asked if that was true.  No WSJ owner has answered (go figure).

If, as David implies, it is an ongoing, every year developer subsidy, Starwood has been carrying the resort for some time now.  And, if the developer subsidy ends (maybe because all the owners are making so much noise about high MF) they surely will be facing increases in the MF they now think are so high.

However, if the developer subsidies were to front the renovations, things may not be so bad.  I'm just trying to find out what the heck is going on with the developer subsidy and I find it odd that nobody who owns at WSJ (VG) will say what's going on.

Thank you for the general information.  Most people refer to what you are talking about as a developer contribution in lieu of assessment.  Most State law requires the developer to pay the proportionate share of expenses on unsold units (condo or timeshare).   ...   eom


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## Ken555

Thanks for posting that, Jarta. I'm going back to my original view of subsidies in post 492...


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## DavidnRobin

*2006 Property Tax Bills Sent*

2006 Property Tax bills have been sent (at 1998 rate) - our week 23 2Bd TH bill is $137.25.
{added: the previous 2006 tax bill for week 24 - that was pulled - was $288.44}

Of course - ours was sent to previous owners... arg.


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ SVO Subsidy info*

WSJ SVO Subsidy info
Note: bottom of the MF bills states -
"The amount of the Developer contributed subsidy as set forth in the Total Annual Budget is an estimate amount only. The Developer is under no obligation to offer any subsidy for the current or for future budget years."

and also... 

"In estimating the expenses associated with the annual budget - certain common expenses of the Condo have been determined thru allocations of costs related to Admin, Front Desk, Maintenance, Housekeeping, Security, and other services that are shared between the Condo and Hotel. These allocations have been determined pursuant to an arrangement between the Condo and the Hotel.  Certain of these costs may be lower than they otherwise would be if such services were being provided by independent 3rd parties instead of the Hotel.  There is no guaranty that this arrangement will continue in subsequent budget years."

*For a 2Bd TH - WSJ VG phase - per week:
[92 units in VG phase with a total of 4692 unit weeks]*
note: I only list our villa type - but they are proportional (%-wise) to other types

Operational Budget
Year 2006: Subsidy = $103.98; TTL MF = $1203.83 (incl. RR = $140.51)
Year 2007: Subsidy =  $210.24; TTL MF = $1322.98 (incl. RR = $140.90)
Year 2008: Subsidy =  $517.23; TTL MF = $1521.17 (incl. RR = $174.08)
Year 2009: Subsidy =  $291.10; TTL MF = $2465.82 (incl. RR = $865.17) - 1st SA year (of 3)
Year 2010: *No subsidy*; TTL MF = $2866.05 (incl. RR $865.17) - 2nd SA year (of 3)

so... unless SVO/WSJ had a crystal ball - accusations that the lack of subsidy was due to SVO/WSJ payback because of Owners revolt is without validity (as well as the claim that there were no Replacement Reserves collected over the years)


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## jarta

David,   ...   "as well as the claim that there were no Replacement Reserves collected over the years"

Thank you for the information.  However, as I said in posts 503 and 505, the claim was not that no money was collected; the claim was that insufficient money was left in the reserve fund.

The annual budget is where SVO/WSJ is supposed to look into that crystal ball and come up with numbers to balance the budget.

What happens now that the subsidy has ended?  Are there any attempts to have it reinstated?  And, in return for what, if anything?   ...   eom


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## DavidnRobin

ask Phil and Bob - I am just reporting info...
why would the subsidy continue?

the argument about sufficiency of previous RR is not worth my time - nor enjoy having it twisted
2010 Budget is put together in 2009

IMO - based on previous history - and lack of subsidy and rate of increase - i would guessimate the 2012 MF bill for our 2Bd TH to be around $2400 - but purely a guess - IMO


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## jarta

"ask Phil and Bob - I am just reporting info...
why would the subsidy continue?"

First, they (Phil and Bob) haven't posted here and, if they watch, they can/could join in any time.

Second, you are the TUG resident expert on WSJ.  You set up this thread.  I thought you would know and share information.

Third, as to your question, if the $1M annual subsidiary was necessary to balance the budget in past years, wouldn't it be necessary to balance the budget in future years?  I was asking if it was necessary to balance the budget generally or to fund the renovations because those are the only two reasons I can come up with.  If there is a third, please let me know what it is.   ...   eom


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## mishpat

*Is it really worth the effort?*

Reading all the posts ,am wondering if the trip to WSJ is worth effort, as opposed to staying on St Thomas or just non stop to Puerto Rico. My  sense is that the actual Westin hotel, as opposed to the timeshare, is  great for location but a run of the mill overpriced property. Am I wrong?

Also, getting to the WSJ from the mainland can be a time consuming adventure if you literally miss the boat.  Can someone give me an estimate of the time to go from the airport until you reach WSJ. I am guessing ninety minutes or more.


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## LisaRex

I cannot speak to whether it's worth it to you but it was worth it to me to travel from St. Thomas to St. John because my husband and friends love to snorkel.

Travel time is several hours if you take the Westin ferry because just the ferry ride is an hour.


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## jarta

It is worth the trouble to get to WSJ.  After you visit, you will realize why.   ...   eom


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## GeneNWendy

*Travel time to St John*

Regarding travel time to St. John, I recommend you read my post #480  Without repeating what I said entirely, renting a car on St. Thomas is significantly less expensive than doing so on St. John.  From Red Hook, you can catch a car ferry just about every 30 minutes between 7:00am and 7:00pm.  It takes about 20 minutes to get over to St. John.  You are then only about a 5 minute drive from the Westin.


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## DavidnRobin

mishpat said:


> Reading all the posts ,am wondering if the trip to WSJ is worth effort, as opposed to staying on St Thomas or just non stop to Puerto Rico. My  sense is that the actual Westin hotel, as opposed to the timeshare, is  great for location but a run of the mill overpriced property. Am I wrong?
> 
> Also, getting to the WSJ from the mainland can be a time consuming adventure if you literally miss the boat.  Can someone give me an estimate of the time to go from the airport until you reach WSJ. I am guessing ninety minutes or more.



It is for some - for others it is not.  Not sure how you interpret from posts that a trip to WSJ/STJ is not worth it?  Most issues are with SVO/HOA - are these issues going to make your stay more unpleasant?

This was our 5th year in row, and cannot wait to get back next year.  We stay at the timeshare portion - some villa and hotel visitors seem to have issues, but generally based on their expectations (same goes for the resort and STJ).

90 mins form STT-STJ is probably a reasonable estimate but will be dependent on the method for transportation (Westin ferry, public ferry, car-rental on STT and car-barge...) and traffic and ferry schedule.  We travel from SFO...

When we are on STT - we just want to get off STT and over to STJ as quickly as possible.  I am not sure what anyone would see in staying on STT, but again all based on what one's expectations are.


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## DavidnRobin

*Rainy STJ*

From STJ Tradewinds:

*Record-breaking Rainfall Sends Guts Overflowing, Rocks Sliding *

With waterfalls gushing, guts overflowing and rockslides wiping out entire lanes on several St. John roadways, Love City looked more like Soggy City last week.

As of Friday morning, July 23, 12.46 inches of rain had accumulated at Trunk Bay during the month of July alone, according to Rafe Boulon’s rain data.

Boulon, the chief of resource management at V.I. National Park, has been collecting rain data at his North Shore home since 1983 and this month was the wettest July he has ever recorded.

On Tuesday, July 20, alone Boulon netted two inches between 3 and 4 p.m., which sent rocks and mud cascading down already saturated hillsides.

“Hawksnest Gut was four feet deep during the heaviest rainfall,” said Boulon. “It usually recedes pretty quickly, but when I got there around 4 p.m. it was down to about three feet.”

Before this July’s more than 12 inches of rain, the most rain to fall during the month of July was a measly 6.68 inches, which Boulon recorded in 2005.

As anyone who has spent time on St. John over the past few months can attest, the rains didn’t start in July. Even back in May, Boulon was collecting near-record amounts of rain.

May 2010, with 10.6 inches of rain, was the second wettest May Boulon has ever recorded. June’s accumulated 7.48 inches of rain was the wettest June Boulon has seen since he started collecting precipitation data.

Going into the month of July, St. John had already seen almost 10 inches more than usual for that time of year. As of Friday, July 23, a total of 41.89 inches of rain had fallen during 2010 so far and the average yearly rainfall for St. John is only 43 inches.

“It’s just been a wet year,” said Boulon. “May was the second wettest May since I started collecting data in 1983, June was the wettest June and we’re already well past our average for July.”

The rainfall set back North Shore road repairs, hampered the work of V.I. Water and Power Authority’s Estate Grunwald power line crew and closed one lane near the Cruz Bay tennis courts for most of the early part of the week.

Along with the lush green hillsides, so much rain accumulation also often means lots of mosquitoes and a greater danger of contracting dengue fever. There have already been two reported cases of dengue fever on St. John, with more possible.

While standing water, where the dengue fever carrying Aedes egypti mosquitoes often breed, can pose dangers, such a heavy amount of rain usually bring less mosquitoes, according to Boulon.

“Sometimes when we have these big gut washes, like this, it flushes everything out,” said Boulon. “The mosquitoes that have already laid their eggs will be washed out, which we saw in May and June. During those months we didn’t really have any mosquitoes.”

“And I think that was because there was a continual flushing of the eggs and larvae,” Boulon said. “When it stopped raining a bit at the end of June and early July, when it tapered off for the a week, that is when we started getting more mosquitoes.”

The Department of Health has already started fogging for mosquitoes on St. Croix and St. Thomas and plan to start soon on St. John. DOH, however, had not set a date for fogging as of press time.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*St. John Restaurant Closings*

For those travelling to STJ in the 'off-season':

St. John Restaurant Closings
According to the St. John Sun Times, these eateries will be cooling their stoves for a while.

Cafe Roma: Closed for September 
Caneel: Closed Sept. 7 to Oct. 27 
Fish Trap: Closed for September 
La Tapa: Closed for August 
Miss Lucy's: Closed now through August (they think) 
Ocean Grill: Closed Sept. 7-Oct. 11 
Ronnie's Pizza: Closed last week of August and September 
Shipwreck Landing: Closed 6 weeks, starting September 
Sweet Plantains: Closed until further notice (this sounds ominous) 
Waterfront Bistro: Closed Sept. 7 to mid-October

St. John Spice also keeps tabs on restaurant vacations.
http://stjohnspice.com/stjohnrestaurants.htm


----------



## olivias dad

Sweet Plantains is closed?  Thats news to me, where did you hear this DavenRobin?  We will be there in 2 weeks and was possibly looking to eat there one night


----------



## NerdAlert

jarta said:


> I think you being a little "flip."
> 
> Your answer doesn't really address whether the ending of the WSJ developer subsidy a good or a bad thing?
> 
> I thought I asked a serious question.  I thought I'd get a less frivolous answer.     ...   eom



I thought it was obvious that free money from Starwood was a good thing. And I did answer your other question. Starwood will get the budget differences from us owners, with no obvious reciprocal benefits. I am simply conveying the common theme of WSJ owners of our frustration at what's going on. Why do people need to bust chops constantly on this bulletin board?


----------



## SDKath

NerdAlert said:


> I thought it was obvious that free money from Starwood was a good thing. And I did answer your other question. Starwood will get the budget differences from us owners, with no obvious reciprocal benefits. I am simply conveying the common theme of WSJ owners of our frustration at what's going on. Why do people need to bust chops constantly on this bulletin board?



It's just the poster.  Don't let him get to you.  I have him on my ignore list so unless you quote him, I don't ever see anything he posts.  Makes my time on TUG much more fun and relaxing.


----------



## jarta

Here's the whole original reply.  I stand by it.

"nerdAlert, ... "That's an easy one Jarta, just tap the "bottomless wallets" of us owners for the difference. And, oh yeah, through in the costs of all the deadbeats, but don't let the owners have any benefits in return...like rental income, usage priorities, or chances at ownership of those weeks."

I think you being a little "flip." If there is a reason for a developer subsidy of $2.9M in 2 years to balance the books at WSJ, there is something quite wrong in Paradise. Some more from the calendar 2008 audit (p. 15):

Budgeted MF: $5,716,105 Actual MF: $5,715,889 Difference: $216.

Budgeted Developer Subsidy: $2,194,770 Actual Developer Subsidy: $1,978,206 Difference: $216,564.

Your answer doesn't really address whether the ending of the WSJ developer subsidy a good or a bad thing? Or, how the bills are going to be paid without the subsidy? Or, one I didn't specifically ask: Why in the world is there a subsidy at all?

Maybe I'm missing something. Could you enlighten me? I was seriously considering buying something there, but if the development needed $1-1.5M every year to stay afloat and it's no longer there, why do it? Maybe I'd be better off taking my chance and trading into BV (or maybe Hillside if something turns up) using Staroptions from a lower MF resort.

I thought I asked a serious question. I thought I'd get a less frivolous answer. ... eom"

These questions remain unanswered:  Whether the *ending* of the WSJ developer subsidy is a good or a bad thing for the owners? How are the bills are going to be paid without the subsidy? Why in the world was there a need for such a large subsidy at all?   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

olivias dad said:


> Sweet Plantains is closed?  Thats news to me, where did you hear this DavenRobin?  We will be there in 2 weeks and was possibly looking to eat there one night



I posted a link - I read a most of the STJ news and blogs on a regular basis.
I have listed these previously.


----------



## DavidnRobin

NerdAlert said:


> I thought it was obvious that free money from Starwood was a good thing. And I did answer your other question. Starwood will get the budget differences from us owners, with no obvious reciprocal benefits. I am simply conveying the common theme of WSJ owners of our frustration at what's going on. Why do people need to bust chops constantly on this bulletin board?



IMO - it is not 'people' - it is generally a single person who obviously does not play well with others - who doesn't even own WSJ (but is looking - too bad for STJ IMO) - that seems to enjoy throwing grenades and twisting words (as those in this profession are trained at - and prosper obviously). Others seem to play well with others IMO on this thread and SVO TUG in general - even when they have differences of opinion.  (and the ignore function works well except for quoting... as Kath points out)

I listed the subsidy payments (relative to my 2Bd TH) - it is what it is.  I move forward not expecting SVO subsidy for WSJ-VG MFs. I do not care about their historic reasonings (and suppostions of 'payback' which is just plain ignorant and non-productive).  As noted - and I stand by my previous post - the why and consequences is up to SVO not us and teh subsidy is relatively small relatively to the overall MFs.

What concerns me - as well as all/most OWNERS - is the future MFs beyond the SA, and the transparency of the revenues and expenditures listed in the MF.  Hopefully - Bob and Phil will have forward momentum with this - I believe they are.  I have met Phil more than once - and I generally have a good read on people - I believe his intentions are both honorable and balanced given the situation.  We have had some small victories in this sense - and hope to have more.  But it is up to concerned Owners to pull together - and be UNIFIED in one coliation - whether their opinions are aligned or not.  IMO - It is diversity of thought, good leadership, transparency, reasonable expectations and proper decision making that will triumph in the long run (my company excelled at this and their success proved this - and hopefully will continue).  I try and do my part as I can - I hope other Owners will do as well.

best


----------



## jarta

David,   ...   "teh subsidy is relatively small relatively to the overall MFs."

There have been bitter complaints posted here about the current MF at WSJ VG.

There are 92 units comprising 4,692 unit-weeks at WSJ VG.  The developer subsidy over 2007 and 2008 was almost $3M - or about $1.5M per year. Now, it's completely gone.

$1.5M / 4,962 amounts to  $319.70 per unit-week per year.

Even with the special assessment ending after 2011, WSJ VG owners who post here are extremely unhappy about their underlying yearly assessments.

I don't think the owners would be happier about paying an additional $319.70 per year to fill the void due to the ending of the developer subsidy.  But, how will the WSJ VG owners avoid having to "eat" the additional $319.70 each year?  When revenue goes down, either expenses have to go down further than the revenue loss or the assessments have to go up.

As you say:  "What concerns me - as well as all/most OWNERS - is the future MFs beyond the SA."  As a potential buyer at WSJ, it's what concerns me, too.  That's why I have asked the questions.

Do you think that the new board members will be able to squeeze out/save $319.70 in yearly expenditures?  It seems that even if they were able to do that, everyone would be right where they were financially for 2009.  And, they would remain quite unhappy with the yearly MF at WSJ VG.

Is there something wrong with my math?

I have stayed at WSJ.  I currently have a 3-br reservation there just before Christmas of this year.  I love the ambience and beauty of the island and the resort.  But, given the turmoil, unhappiness and uncertainty at WSJ VG, why would anyone risk buying there until the dust settles?    ...   eom


----------



## jarta

Excerpts from the 12/31/08 audited report:

From Note 1:

"Virgin Grand Villas - St. John Condominium Owners Association (the "Association") was incorporated on March 10, 1998, under the laws of the United States Virgin Islands to operate and manage the Virgin Grand Villas - St. John Condominium (the “Condominium”), an interval ownership condominium consisting of 92 units (4,692 unitweeks, which include 92 maintenance weeks), located at Great Cruz Bay, St. John, United States Virgin Islands. The owners of all unit-weeks in the condominium are the only members."

From Note 4:

"During the years ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, the amount of maintenance fees assessed to the developer for operations and replacements were $580,994 and $75,079, and $538,846 and $64,231, respectively. Total cash payments made to the Association by the developer, for these assessments were $656,073 and $603,077 in 2008 and 2007, respectively. In addition, the developer elected to voluntarily subsidize specified line items in the budget resulting in developer subsidy revenue of $1,978,206 and $892,090 for the years ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, respectively. The Association derived approximately 31% and 22% of its revenue from the developer during the years ended December 31, 2008 and 2007, respectively."

...   eom


----------



## Ken555

FWIW, I think Jarta's got a point here. Those of you who don't see his posts are missing a justifiable viewpoint, IMO.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Ken555 said:


> FWIW, I think Jarta's got a point here. Those of you who don't see his posts are missing a justifiable viewpoint, IMO.



sorry - don't care...  I take a totally different mode of rlaying info and opinion - but that is me... I take a 3 strikes approach (and it has been about 5 with a couple of HBPs) - anyone who doesn't like what I have to say or my approach can put me on ignore as well.  I have made my TS choices - and plan to make the best of it - while at the same time trying to prevent others fro making bad decisions, and trying to be informative as possible w/o playing distraction ball - and take some fantastic vacations  (and share my experiences and opinions).  All my posts are consistent in this approach.

best to you Ken...  feel free to summarize them if you want...  I have more important things to deal with.

can we get back to an informative WSJ Thread... this is why I started it in the 1st place - and I am very proud of it.  If someone wants to make a subsidy thread - go for it.  IMO the subsidy is over for WSJ - time to move on...


----------



## DavidnRobin

speaking of which - excellent rookie thread of WSJ/STJ visit.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127227


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> sorry - don't care...  I take a totally different mode of rlaying info and opinion - but that is me... I take a 3 strikes approach (and it has been about 5 with a couple of HBPs) - anyone who doesn't like what I have to say or my approach can put me on ignore as well.  I have made my TS choices - and plan to make the best of it - while at the same time trying to prevent others fro making bad decisions, and trying to be informative as possible w/o playing distraction ball - and take some fantastic vacations  (and share my experiences and opinions).  All my posts are consistent in this approach.
> 
> best to you Ken...  feel free to summarize them if you want...  I have more important things to deal with.
> 
> can we get back to an informative WSJ Thread... this is why I started it in the 1st place - and I am very proud of it.  If someone wants to make a subsidy thread - go for it.  IMO the subsidy is over for WSJ - time to move on...




David,

I really don't understand why you felt it necessary to post this comment. It certainly doesn't help the conversation. 

I also have no desire to summarize a post that's on the forum, which you choose not to read for your own reasons. The post in question is part of this thread. If you have any interest, you'll change your settings and read it. Otherwise, think twice in future about asking for someone to spend time on your behalf summarizing when the ability to read the original is entirely up to you.

Ken


----------



## DavidnRobin

sorry - duplicate


----------



## DavidnRobin

I posted it for very clear reasons - and was responding to your post about some supposed valid argument being made. Sorry if you feel wronged in some way - that was not intended that way - but typical of the tangent and grenades that the subject being discussed seems to cherish (as we are still discussing this...).  I have been on TUG many years - before the 'distraction ball' posting started.  I am keeping the WSJ on track.  If someone wants to ignore me - they have that ability - as I do.

I made my point crystal clear (keeping within TUG rules and request by Mods).  I wasn't asking you to summarize - I said that for me to read them, then feel free to summarize (or anyone for that matter).  I made the mistake of removing the ignore function already (twice actually) - shame on me - I do not need the headache, aggravation, etc.

I spent the time digging through my files to summarize the subsidies in terms of a per VOI cost (real data).  Not that impactful anymore compared to the overall MFs and RRs, deliquencies, etc. As stated - the subsidy is reported as over - I am moving on.  I was curious of the numbers.  If others want to chime in on WSJ subsidy feel free - I think there will be silence.

If one wants to start a thread on the consequences of SVO subsidies - I think it is a great idea, and worth its own thread since it impacts all of SVO subsidized resorts.  Perhaps that is a better venue than here?

Take care Ken - I have always enjoyed you posts - try not to get dragged in (IMO).  But please do not expect me to respond to this further here - if you want to PM me - please feel free..  I am not wired to speculate on things I cannot impact.  I believe my impacts and views have been pretty postive for the most part - and feel good when people PM me thanking me (makes it all worth it).

I am looking forward to my next WSJ visit, but 1st OF in Maui...

_"if you plant ice - you will harvest wind"_
I prefer sunlight... it is the best disinfectant.


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> Sorry if you feel wronged in some way - that was not intended that way - but typical of the tangent and grenades that the subject being discussed seems to cherish (as we are still discussing this...).  I have been on TUG many years - before the 'distraction ball' posting started.



I've been on TUG longer than you. I remember those days quite well.



> I wasn't asking you to summarize - I said that for me to read them, then feel free to summarize (or anyone for that matter).


This was an implied request.



> I made the mistake of removing the ignore function already (twice actually) - shame on me - I do not need the headache, aggravation, etc.


I think it's fair to say the regulars know your opinion of the individual in question.



> I spent the time digging through my files to summarize the subsidies in terms of a per VOI cost (real data).  Not that impactful anymore compared to the overall MFs and RRs, deliquencies, etc. As stated - the subsidy is reported as over - I am moving on.  I was curious of the numbers.  If others want to chime in on WSJ subsidy feel free - I think there will be silence.


The issue, as I see it, is whether or not the subsidy impacts the MFs on an on-going basis, and whether or not the subsidy artificially adjusted the MF to encourage sales. I would have expected most WSJ owners to be concerned about this issue. FWIW, my only interest is as a fellow SVN owner, as I see what's happening at WSJ as precursor to what may happen at other resorts.



> If one wants to start a thread on the consequences of SVO subsidies - I think it is a great idea, and worth its own thread since it impacts all of SVO subsidized resorts.  Perhaps that is a better venue than here?


I think it's great that you continue to try to keep this thread on target, based on how you see it. But that's not typical, as we both know. Tangents happen. Get used to it. 



> Take care Ken - I have always enjoyed you posts - try not to get dragged in (IMO).  But please do not expect me to respond to this further here - if you want to PM me - please feel free..  I am not wired to speculate on things I cannot impact.  I believe my impacts and views have been pretty postive for the most part - and feel good when people PM me thanking me (makes it all worth it).


Don't get me wrong, I think your posts are great. But I don't agree that your one-sided viewpoint here is fair, by any definition. Keep in mind this latest round was a short post of mine which stated that IMO Jarta's post has some validity. You could have ignored it, but didn't. I wouldn't have posted again, but felt it necessary to respond to your subsequent post, for obvious reasons.

And by all means, if you feel it necessary to communicate privately, you may send me a PM or email at any time. Given the tenor of the thread, I believe it more appropriate to reply here so everyone can read it.


----------



## NerdAlert

*USVI Draft of Timeshare Valuations is available*

Just poking around the USVI Tax Assessor website and found a draft of the proposed rules for valuation of timeshares. 
See if link works:
http://ltg.gov.vi/images/stories/Draft.Rules.Valuation.Timshares.pdf
Let's hash it out


----------



## whitebeachsand

*Westin NO Longer Wait Lists*

What's happening on the lawsuit front?  Starwood keeps making it more and more difficult to use the week.  Every year the game changes.  Now they are no longer taking wait lists.  SVO is doing everthing they can to push the owners out.


----------



## DavidnRobin

whitebeachsand said:


> What's happening on the lawsuit front?  Starwood keeps making it more and more difficult to use the week.  Every year the game changes.  Now they are no longer taking wait lists.  SVO is doing everthing they can to push the owners out.



Could you be more specific with this - hard to respond w/o more detail. Phase, week, owner, SVN, elite status, etc?


----------



## DavidnRobin

NerdAlert said:


> Just poking around the USVI Tax Assessor website and found a draft of the proposed rules for valuation of timeshares.
> See if link works:
> http://ltg.gov.vi/images/stories/Draft.Rules.Valuation.Timshares.pdf
> Let's hash it out



My understanding is that 2007 bills will be sent late 2010 based on 1998 rate. 

The new evaluation - from previous mailing - will ~double.

I will look at link to confirm if same as Tax that was halted by Legal action in part by STJ  residents (also getting hit) - TS owners on STJ getting double wham.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*2006 Tax Bills*

Hi DavidnRobin,

I received my 2006 tax bills by caling the USVI Tax Assessor's office directly.  I also heard from Starwood that they would be sending them out to owners in the next few weeks.  The amount of the taxes are virtually unchanged from what they were in the 2005 bills.  I guess that makes sense if they are using the old 1998 rates.  

Regards,
GeneNWendy


----------



## DavidnRobin

GeneNWendy said:


> Hi DavidnRobin,
> 
> I received my 2006 tax bills by caling the USVI Tax Assessor's office directly.  I also heard from Starwood that they would be sending them out to owners in the next few weeks.  The amount of the taxes are virtually unchanged from what they were in the 2005 bills.  I guess that makes sense if they are using the old 1998 rates.
> 
> Regards,
> GeneNWendy



The previous Owner got mine for week 23 - and sent it to me (luckily we stay in contact).  I never received our week 24 Tax bill - even though I received the week 24 one that was halted by Legal Action (2 years ago?).

I like paying ethe 1998 rate - hopefuuly that will last thru 2007 and beyond, but likely it will be resolved befor the 2008 bill (IMO).


----------



## NerdAlert

The new (2010) 2006 tax bills are using the 1998 rate which is: 0.0125*0.6*AV, where AV is the assessed value. So on a TS assessed at $23,600 the tax is: $177. This looks lower than the previous 2006 bills from 2008. The draft I mentioned above is very important for us because it shows how the VI is going to establish the assessed values of TS in the future. It roughly looks like they're going to use 50% of an original developer week value, and 65% value of a resale. This appears better than before. One of of my developer weeks, they pinned the assessment at 62%. More importantly, as the values are dropping on resales, they appear to be helping us out by using only 65% of it as long as it is an arms-length deal. Hopefully it will be immediate, like upon deed recording. It is hard for me to believe, though, if you buy a week for like $3000, they'll assess it at $1950. I guess they can always jiggle the tax rate, as usual. Any other thoughts?


----------



## DavidnRobin

NerdAlert said:


> The new (2010) 2006 tax bills are using the 1998 rate which is: 0.0125*0.6*AV, where AV is the assessed value. So on a TS assessed at $23,600 the tax is: $177. This looks lower than the previous 2006 bills from 2008. The draft I mentioned above is very important for us because it shows how the VI is going to establish the assessed values of TS in the future. It roughly looks like they're going to use 50% of an original developer week value, and 65% value of a resale. This appears better than before. One of of my developer weeks, they pinned the assessment at 62%. More importantly, as the values are dropping on resales, they appear to be helping us out by using only 65% of it as long as it is an arms-length deal. Hopefully it will be immediate, like upon deed recording. It is hard for me to believe, though, if you buy a week for like $3000, they'll assess it at $1950. I guess they can always jiggle the tax rate, as usual. Any other thoughts?



I tend to agree, but I am see-it-believe-it mode.  The SA may increase the value as well. The TS tax increase fight is only slightly supported by ARDA (iirc), and very strong from STJians due to the perceived imbalance.  I do believe it will take sometime for USVI to deal with it - in the meantine they need money to run gov't.  I think the 2007 bill would be the same 1998 rate.  Beyond that - I am expecting a doubling of my tax rate (less I will be happy, more I will be upset).


----------



## islandguy

*Fire Pirates*

Just read that the Fire Pirates are leaving St. John and the Westin.  They are headed to Virgin Gorda full time.  Wonder what Westin is going to do now that they are gone or soon to be with the weekly waterfont show. 

Saw them over 4 or 5 times at the beach during their evening performances  and was at their first one they did at the Westin St. John.  

Going to miss the fire breathing team. Got three trips coming up (Nov, Jan and Feb) to SJT -- may just have to go to bars down in Cruz Bay.  Or may just have stay the night in Virgin Gorda to see their act again.

Island Guy


----------



## DavidnRobin

Tropical Storm Earl to skirt USVI
http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/at201007.html

with an Invest close behind (possibly).


----------



## olivias dad

We just returned (thank god) great weather, great times, what would happen if we were at the WSJ this week?  Would WSJ refund us?


----------



## DanCali

olivias dad said:


> We just returned (thank god) great weather, great times, what would happen if we were at the WSJ this week?  Would WSJ refund us?



I would not expect a refund. That is what travel insurance is for. We just returned from HRA and had travel insurance that covered flights and trip interruption... ~$100 for peace of mind was well worth it, even though it was unncecessary in hindsight.

I think the best Starwood can do for owners if you cancel a reservation on short notice due to a hurricane is to not restrict your Staroptions to use within 60 days. Not sure if they would even do that but I imagine they could if they wanted to...


----------



## DeniseM

You can buy TS travel insurance that will cover you for a whole year for $100 - a bargain in my opinion.  See the stickies at the top of the Travel Board for more info.


----------



## jerseygirl

DanCali said:


> We just returned from HRA ....



Not to hijack this thread ... but please tell us if you had a good time (can report on another thread!).


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Hurricane Earl*

beating on the USVI

http://www.stjohnspice.com/stjohnspicecam.htm

looking at STJ ferry dock


----------



## DavidnRobin

http://www.stormcarib.com/goes.htm


----------



## DavidnRobin

http://www.stjohnspice.com/stjohnspicecam.htm

why late-Aug thru mid-Oct is considered low-low season - advise Trip Insurance.


----------



## olivias dad

No kidding huh?!  We flew out on Friday, great weather all week, 3 days later all hell broke loose!


----------



## DavidnRobin

from News of St John:
http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/

*Westin says damage 'minimal'*

An announcement from the Westin St. John says Earl was no big deal. The resort "experienced minimal damage to our outdoor areas and the property did not sustain any structural damage. The resort team is currently cleaning up landscaping debris. Our associates and customers are all safe."

While the Beach Cafe and pool will reopen Wednesday, and the Snorkels bar/restaurant will be back in operation Friday, the beach is closed "until the necessary water safety tests have been completed."

A report from Storm Carib states that the Westin dock is gone and boats on the beach... (so a mixed report - somewhat)
http://stormcarib.com/reports/current/stjohn.shtml


----------



## Carolyn

*Here some video CNN ireports from a WSJ guest at WSJ*

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-486893

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-486884


----------



## DavidnRobin

^^^^^ excellent find - looks like dock is mostly intact - but covering was blown off.


----------



## DavidnRobin

more photos and video from Bob Egan - it looks as if Bob and family were staying in the Bay Vista section
http://ireport.cnn.com/people/bobegan


----------



## DavidnRobin

*TS Guston*

Looks like high probability of hitting the USVI as a hurricane
http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/at201009_5day.html#a_topad

still days away, but...


----------



## DavidnRobin

more Earl video around the Westin and Great Cruz Bay - I wonder if they will replace the water toys
http://iwitness.weather.com/_hurricane-Earl-600-august-30/video/1288166/148597.html
http://iwitness.weather.com/_Hurricane-Earl39s-effects/video/1286583/148597.html


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Grounds - Hurricane Damage Video*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJPUdsbDc6Y&feature=related
quote... "It's going to be a long week folks"

this one is nuts - guess these guys haven't heard about flying debris
http://www.youtube.com/user/broker1970#p/u/5/NlRZeKzJmbo


----------



## blackfly

*WSJ Week 16*

Apologies for the cryptic message, but if you own a 3-bedroom pool villa at the WSJ, week 16, please send me a PM. Thank you.


----------



## sb2313

*Ferry to St john*

How is the ferry ride from St Thomas to St John as we were able to exchange into a week at Frenchman's cove with a 1 bedroom sbp and I was thinking about adding a few days on St John. Our concern is with possible motion sickness on the ride In case my wife becomes pregnant between now and next September when were going. Thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## DavidnRobin

sb2313 said:


> How is the ferry ride from St Thomas to St John as we were able to exchange into a week at Frenchman's cove with a 1 bedroom sbp and I was thinking about adding a few days on St John. Our concern is with possible motion sickness on the ride In case my wife becomes pregnant between now and next September when were going. Thanks in advance for the help!




The passenger ferry from RedHook to STJ is like 15 minutes... and the motion is pretty minor. Generally the seas are very calm.  If there is any motion that may be a concern - focus on a one single spot on horizon and try not to allow the eyes to shift around.

I would say the the motion sickness due to driving in STT and STJ is much more of a concern - one of our vacation buddies is guaranteed to barf at least one time...


----------



## DavidnRobin

Anyone interested in summarizing the very long letter that we got from the new WSJ BOD directors - maybe we can share the effort?

If you haven't yet (or care to) - remember to send in your contact information for the WSJ VG Owners Directory.  They must receive this in order to be included.


----------



## jerseygirl

I was very disturbed by the following statement at the bottom of page 6 / top of page 7:

When the use of a unit is denied to an owner who has not paid the required maintenance fee, the current practice is first to provide that week to the Starwood Vacation Network for use (through StarOptions) by St. John owners or other SVO owners by requesting exchanges ...

    

First of all, how does this help us recoup costs???

Second of all, I specifically asked (in writing) if this was the practice and received a response (in writing) that it was NOT how delinquencies/lock outs were being handled.

I'm in the process of contacting the BOD with copies of my prior communications to request a clarification.

I liked their thoughts about how to potentially handle this issue in the future, but I can't believe we're almost two full years into this delinquency situation and there does not appear to have been any efforts to actually recoup funds in the form of an organized rental program.

This doesn't just apply to WSJ - all Starwood owners should be appalled at this practice.  Personally, I think it borders on conversion ...


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Ferry from St Thomas to St John*



sb2313 said:


> How is the ferry ride from St Thomas to St John as we were able to exchange into a week at Frenchman's cove with a 1 bedroom sbp and I was thinking about adding a few days on St John. Our concern is with possible motion sickness on the ride In case my wife becomes pregnant between now and next September when were going. Thanks in advance for the help!



As Dave indicated, the passenger ferry from Red Hook to St. John is only about 15 minutes and minimal in motion.  However, you may want to rent a car on St. Thomas and take it on the car ferry barge from Red hook.  That has even less motion than the passenger only ferry.  Also renting a car in St. Thomas is considerably less money than renting one on St. John  The car ferry barge takes a little longer as it travels slower, about 20 to 25 minutes.

Here is a link to an article I wrote about renting a car in St. Thomas and taking it over to St. John.

http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/blog/?p=43


----------



## GeneNWendy

jerseygirl said:


> I was very disturbed by the following statement at the bottom of page 6 / top of page 7:
> 
> When the use of a unit is denied to an owner who has not paid the required maintenance fee, the current practice is first to provide that week to the Starwood Vacation Network for use (through StarOptions) by St. John owners or other SVO owners by requesting exchanges ...
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, how does this help us recoup costs???
> 
> Second of all, I specifically asked (in writing) if this was the practice and received a response (in writing) that it was NOT how delinquencies/lock outs were being handled.
> 
> I'm in the process of contacting the BOD with copies of my prior communications to request a clarification.
> 
> I liked their thoughts about how to potentially handle this issue in the future, but I can't believe we're almost two full years into this delinquency situation and there does not appear to have been any efforts to actually recoup funds in the form of an organized rental program.
> 
> This doesn't just apply to WSJ - all Starwood owners should be appalled at this practice.  Personally, I think it borders on conversion ...




*I was disturbed by most of the newsletter.  The indication seems to be that there was unanticipated damage to the roofs due to termites.  I recently spoke to a construction expert who told me that termite damage in the cedar shank roofs is extremely unusual (this is probably why that type of roofing was used in the first place).  Secondly, I've been on the island tour of St. John several times.  On more than one occasion tour guides have pointed out the termite nests that you see throughout the island and have explained that they have plenty of natural habitat to feed off of and do little damage to homes and physical structures for that reason.  Something doesn't add up.  i'd love to see an independent engineering report justifyin gthe need for new roofs.*


----------



## mishpat

*which room type?*

In the hotel WSJ, do you know which rooms have better views. Seems the  lower priced garden view are 100 sq ft larger so I question whether the smaller views on the better rooms(makes no sense0 are worth seeking? In sum, were we to be upgraded, where do you recommend we try to stay?


----------



## DavidnRobin

I know nothing about the WSJ hotel rooms outside of what is written on things like TripAdvisor (not necessarily positive).  There is a resort map that shows the hotel buildings.

If I were to upgrade - I would try and get into a villa.


----------



## GeneNWendy

DavidnRobin said:


> I know nothing about the WSJ hotel rooms outside of what is written on things like TripAdvisor (not necessarily positive).  There is a resort map that shows the hotel buildings.
> 
> If I were to upgrade - I would try and get into a villa.




I second that.  I would further add that the Virgin Grand Villas are probably better than Bay Vista, since you can park a rental vehicle right outside your  unit and have the use of the Villa Pool.


----------



## Robin&Mark

DavidnRobin said:


> Anyone interested in summarizing the very long letter that we got from the new WSJ BOD directors - maybe we can share the effort?
> 
> If you haven't yet (or care to) - remember to send in your contact information for the WSJ VG Owners Directory.  They must receive this in order to be included.



Thanks for including this, we thought we would automatically be added to the list as an owner. I will send our information so we do receive from now on.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Robin&Mark said:


> Thanks for including this, we thought we would automatically be added to the list as an owner. I will send our information so we do receive from now on.



Great.
Unfortunately, WSJ VG Owners have to request to be included in the Owners Directory.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*The 8 page letter from 2 new WSJ Board members*



DavidnRobin said:


> Anyone interested in summarizing the very long letter that we got from the new WSJ BOD directors - maybe we can share the effort?
> 
> *Below is a link to the long letter from the new WSJ Board members.*
> 
> http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.../2010/09/Aug-31-2010-Board-Member-Letter1.pdf


----------



## jarta

Gene,   ...   Thank you for the link.

I have posted before about the ending of the Starwood subsidy and the lack of reserves in prior years.  From page 4 of the letter found by using the link:

"*Future reserves*.  Although not a significant factor in the additional charges for 2009, 2010, and 2011, the recent experiences with unanticipated reserve expenditures (my add - especially for roof replacement) also alerted management to improvements in future years (e.g., when the new air conditioning equipment has to be replaced some years down the road).  Therefore, as soon as the refurbishing is complete (almost exhausting the reserves that were augmented by the three-year increase), it will be necessary to begin creating a realistic reserve fund for the future.  This does not mean that the three-year increase will be permanent; the annual reserve funding per unit will considerably less than was charged in 2009, 2010 and 2011.  But given the withdrawal of the Starwood contribution and the need to budget realistically for future capital expenses, we can predict that even if the delinquency rate diminishes, as we hope it will, maintenance fees are not going to return to 2008 levels."

Not particularly good news.   ...   eom


----------



## jarta

However, from page 1 of the letter:

" ... we met with the three Board members appointed by SVO, with Mike Ryan, the recently appointed General Manager of the property and members of his senior staff, with Mark Dunham, SVO's Vice President for Facilities Management, and with Shawn O'Brien, SVO's Director of Board Relations.  We found that everyone we met with was highly professional and very capable, and we came away with the sense that notwithstanding the huge maintenance increases that we have all suffered in the last three years, *our resort is in good hands*.  We learned a great deal about time share management, budget, and operations, and we introduced about forty new ideas and suggestions, many of which we received by email from owners since our election in May."  (I added the the bold.)   ...   eom


----------



## jarta

From pages 1-2 of the linked letter:

"As you know, maintenance increases have been steep in recent years.  In 2006, the fee for a week in a one-bedroom unit was $963.  In 2008, it was $1,217.  By 2010 it had become $2293.  Units of other sizes had increases in like proportions.  (The numbers for 2010 include the special three-year additions to maintenance that began in 2009.)

We found that, as SVO has said in its recent reports, these steep increases were caused almost entirely by three factors - and none of them are operating costs such as the cost of housekeeping and electricity.  *In fact, most operating costs have been declining in recent years*.  It is very unfortunate that the three factors that drove up maintenance all materialized at once in what SVO officials themselves describe as a "perfect storm."  These three factors were:

The urgent need for interior and exterior refurbishment

Strwood's termination of its voluntary annual contribution

A major increase in non-payment by owners and a correspponding revenue gap that the rest of us had to make up."  (I added the bold.)   ...   eom


----------



## Ken555

I wish the other SVN boards _individual board members at all SVN resorts, acting on their own and without SVN approval,_ sent out a similar no-nonsense non-Starwood letter. Looks like things are getting under control at WSJ (tho not necessarily the MFs...).


----------



## jarta

Ken,   ...   This letter was from the 2 members of the board elected in May.  Both were supported by TUG (1 is a TUG member).  They were acting on their own and not as "the board."  The letter was distributed by Starwood but written by them as individual board members.

The letter should be required reading for every WSJ VG member.  IMO, the letter explains a lot of the misinformation and misconceptions which have been circulating over the last year.   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

Re: Subsidy...

see post 514
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=952464&postcount=514

there was no subsidy in 2010


----------



## DavidnRobin

GeneNWendy said:


> *I was disturbed by most of the newsletter.  The indication seems to be that there was unanticipated damage to the roofs due to termites.  I recently spoke to a construction expert who told me that termite damage in the cedar shank roofs is extremely unusual (this is probably why that type of roofing was used in the first place).  Secondly, I've been on the island tour of St. John several times.  On more than one occasion tour guides have pointed out the termite nests that you see throughout the island and have explained that they have plenty of natural habitat to feed off of and do little damage to homes and physical structures for that reason.  Something doesn't add up.  i'd love to see an independent engineering report justifyin gthe need for new roofs.*



Hi Gene -
{sorry - busy at work}

Why do you say you were disturbed by most of the letter?  I personally like most of it - there are a few issues that I would like clarification.  I certainly like that we are finally getting communication from the board (at least 2 of them)

Re: siding and roofs -  I was under the impression that the SA was suppose to take care of the roof/sidings.

I would like clrification on the net versus gross proceeds going back to the HOA, but I need to read the letter closer when I get a chance.

I hope you ask your consortium of Owners to send in their contact info letter - it is time to move forward to singular Owners group (IMO).


----------



## jarta

Unintentionally humorous (over-earnest) article about termites on St. John:

http://www.seestjohn.com/fauna_termites.html   ...   eom


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding my opinion of the letter*



DavidnRobin said:


> Hi Gene -
> {sorry - busy at work}
> 
> Why do you say you were disturbed by most of the letter?  I personally like most of it - there are a few issues that I would like clarification.  I certainly like that we are finally getting communication from the board (at least 2 of them)
> 
> Re: siding and roofs -  I was under the impression that the SA was suppose to take care of the roof/sidings.
> 
> I would like clrification on the net versus gross proceeds going back to the HOA, but I need to read the letter closer when I get a chance.
> 
> I hope you ask your consortium of Owners to send in their contact info letter - it is time to move forward to singular Owners group (IMO).



Dave,

Besides what I already said about the termite damage to the roofs, which I don't take at face value, the new board members were elected as a result of my efforts as well as those of Tom DeClemente.  Tom came in 3rd place in the election and would have clearly been a winner if we pushed our consortium of owners behind him.  Part of the reason we stood behind Phil Schrag was that he researched USVI law and discovered a discrepancy between it and our by-laws.  Once a development, such as Virgin Grand Villas, becomes 75% owner occupied, control of the Board is to be turned over to the owners within a period not to exceed 60 days.  BTW, Tom and I hired an attorney in USVI, who gave a legal opinion that while this wouldn't be an open and shut case, it would nevertheless be winnable.  Tom and I stood behind these two new board members with an understanding that they would pursue this issue once elected.  They have effectively abandoned us and are working on the "let's work with Starwood" approach.  While that might work in the short run, long-term change won't come until we actually take control of the Board.  If you don't believe me, talk to any of the owners at Bluebeard's Castle, where they took over their Board, fired the developer as property manager and hired their own company, SPM, to manage it.  I'm not saying we need to do all that at the WSJ, but in order to have long term change for the better, we need control of the Board.  Bob and Phil's letter mentions that we'll never have 100% of our units sold because 5% are always put aside for maintenance reasons.  Under our existing by-laws (drafted in the mid 1980's) we won't have control until the very last unit of VGV is sold.  Since at best we'll have 95% sold, we will never have control.

I agree with you that the new members are better communicators than their predecessors, Melissa Brookes and Walter DeCastro.  However, that's about all.  They defend Starwood's decision to go ahead with the upgrades even though there were 2 votes which felt short of a quorum.  Just because most of those that did vote, voted in favor of the upgrades is not enough.  According to the by-laws, you need 2/3 affirmative approval of *all* owners in order to go ahead with such a project.  If the Board didn't need the owner's approval in the first place, why did they put it to a vote?  To get the owner's blessings?  In 2008, prior to all the increases in maintenance, we were still paying more maintenance on average than similar resorts in the Carribean.  Money should have been set aside for capital reserves as well as doing basic maintenance on our units.  Instead it was probably diverted to finance the Bay Vista units, letting VGV go down the tubes in the process.  The "upgrades" to our units are in my mind nothing but refurbishments to bring us back to where they should have been had proper maintenance been done all along.

Who's expense is this been done with?  Yours and mine!!  It hurts those living on fixed incomes the most.  It also hurts those who lost their jobs through no fault of their own in this terrible economy.  Phil and Bob's solution is to allow those people who can no longer can afford to pay the maintenance an opportunity to turn their deeds back in to Starwood and not be held liable for anything going forward.  While I don't like paying maintenance fees on behalf of the owners who are in default, I don't think they should have to lose their investment because of unauthorized upgrades approved by the Board.  Aside from Bob and Phil the other Board members are Starwood employees, Terri Castleberry, Paulette Carter, and Jonathan Ho.  The former two are glorifed secretaries and Jonathan is a glorifed bookkeeper.  They are Starwood employees whose job it is to vote however Starwood tells them to.  It's quite obvious that they have no interest to act on behalf of the best interests of the owners.  A true board will never act in the owners' best interests until the owners control it.

Gene


----------



## jerseygirl

While I agree that we should ultimately have control of the board, I think it's more than fair to give Phil and Bob a chance to get the complete "lay of the land." I've corresponded with them and I'm convinced they're 100% on our side.  We can't fix every problem instantly.  I'm willing to give them a chance to continue to do the right thing and make gradual improvements designed to benefit the owners.

Also, I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that owners who cannot pay are being given the opportunity to turn their deeds over to the HOA, not Starwood.  I don't know why anyone, except those who are upside down due to financing, would do that.  But if we can move those deeds to paying owners, we're all better off.


----------



## jarta

After the 3-day long meeting, the 2 newly-elected board members included this in their letter:

"We learned a great deal about time share management, budget, and operations ..." (Page 1)

Concerning the refurbishing project and the 3-year "special asessment"  (not really), here's what they said: 

"*The refurbishing project*.  In 2006-2007, before the recession or the loss of the Starwood contribution were foreseeable, it became evident that significant refurbishing of the interiors of the older buildings (32, 33, 34, 41, 42 and unit 4415) was necessary.  These buildings had aging, dowdy furnishings and appliances, and much of the kitchen and bathroom cabinetry and equipment was also in bad shape.  The furniture and fixtures long predated Starwood's acquisition of the property in 1998.  Some of the applicances were inappropriate for the space; for example, some refrigerator doors could not be fully opened because they would bump into cabinets.  Vacationing owners could not have a first-class experience, and when they saw sales presentations for Building 31 and for the much newer units being built at Bay Vista across the street, they began to insist on better interiors for their units as well.  The Board conducted two votes on a special assessment, outside of the normal budget cycle, to fund an interior renovation.  In both votes, the owners who voted supported the assessment (on the second vote, by a margin of 86% to 14%), but in neither vote was the participation level high enough to obtain the required support of 2/3 of all owners, not just those who voted.

The Board then faced the issue of whether to go ahead with the project anyway.  Had there been sufficient reserve funding, it might have been paid for out of reserves.  But Starwood's predecessors as owners of the development had neither budgeted for nor created more than minimal reserves for capital improvements.  Starwood did voluntarily contribute $1.3 million to the Virgin Grand replacement account in 2001 to provide the association with the ability to perform normal replacements that were needed.  SVO had not recommended building up reserves to levels higher than customary replacement schedules between 2000 and 2006.  (The reason for this appears to have been a perhaps unrealistic industry standard that items such as cabinetry, counter tops, tubs and toilets have very long useful lives and were not planned to be completely removed and replaced).  With the full support of our owner-chosen predecessors (Board members Walter DeCastro and Melissa Brookes, who were elected in the spring of 2007), and bouyed by the 86% margin of those who had voted on the question of refurbishment, the Board approved a budget containing a $1.3 million increase in the reserves to fund the project, to be paid by owners over a three-year period.

The $1.3 million wouldn't have been such a big pocketbook hit, and it would have been offset by high owner satisfaction.  (In fact, we have heard nothing but praise by owners who have lived with both the "old" and the "new" interiors.)  But then, in 2008, through a routine roof inspection, it was discovered that much of the siding was rotting and that the roofs were at the very end of their useful lives.  Wood shingles never should have been used in this tropical climate; the wood was infested with termites and was peeling and falling apart in many places.  Both the hotel and our time share development were faced with an emergency need to replace and improve the "outer envelope" of the buildings, a very expensive job (about $5.5 million for our time shares, and about $12 million for the hotel).  In 2008, the Board therefore voted to fund the reserves to cover the necessary exterior renovations in addition to the already approved interior refurbishment.  As you know, both sets of improvements together required an additional maintenance payment amounting to an average of $625 per unit for three years: 2009, 2010 and 2011.  While this is an average figure, the dollar amount was much higher for the larger units, particularly the three-bedroom pool villas.  (The 2010 maintenance fee for a pool villa, including $1038 for the reserve fund, is $3439.)

Changing the roofs and siding will preserve and protect the property, but in addition, some of the exterior improvements will save money in operating costs.  For example, the windows and doors will be much better insutated, lowering electricity costs.  Individual air conditioners and water heaters are being replaced by massive and much more efficient chillers, which also generate waste heat that will be used to heat the water for showers.  Permanent gas lines will replace the expensive propane tanks for the three-bedroom units.

We will report in more detail in a later report on the improvements that have been made and those that are in progress.  We'll just add here that the resort that we will all own in 2012 will be a lot better, and a lot more valuable, than the one that most of us bought into before 2008.  In fact, one of the building managers noted that by 2013, except for pilings securing the buildings to the ground, there will be almost nothing left of the Virgin Grand Villas as they existed ten years earlier." (Pages 2-3)

It's OK to disagree with the two newly-elected board members (who had no connections to Starwood before being elected).  But, those who disagree with what they have written should state specifically what they would have done to preserve value at the resort.   ...   eom


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Response by one VGV owner regarding new Board member letter of Aug 31, 2010*

http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/blog/?p=69


----------



## jarta

Gene,   ...   I don't see anything in the critique or the email (both unattributed) in the blog stating what should have been done differently to preserve property values at the Virgin Grand Villas given the advanced deterioration of the units.

However, it seems like the letter from the new board members is not sufficient in the view of some.

The 8 page letter from the 2 new board members (after spending 3 solid days in meetings) contains 4 pages devoted to an explanation of maintenance and the reserve fund and concludes with 14 suggestions/recommendations (over another 2.5 pages) that the new members made to Starwood.  They say:  "Management and the Board are studying all of our suggestions for possible future action."   ...   eom


----------



## GeneNWendy

JARTA,

You may very well be correct.  As I indicated in my post, I would like to see where things stand after the new members have been in their spots for one year.

Gene


----------



## jarta

Gene,   ...   "As I indicated in my post ..."

Clarification:  That is indicated in your post on the blog, not the post here on TUG.  

Just have to wait and see what happens.  Thanks for the link.   ...   eom


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Severe damage at Westin*

For your information, we've had more damage in the last week due to subtropical storm Otto than we had with hurricane Marilyn in 1995.  Right now the big pool is full of mud, the beach is eroded and Snorkels is precariously perched above the sand and the tennis courts are ruined with the carpet in heaps. 

*Here is the official Westin version:*

Limited Services Due to Flooding

Due to heavy rainfall, the area around the Westin St. John Resort & Villas has experienced flood related damage. The resort is open but under limited operations. The resort operations team is working quickly to return to normal operations and to restore our pristine resort landscaping esthetics. The following limitations are currently in effect:

 a.. Our pool will not be available until it can be drained and cleaned. It is scheduled to reopen by October 28, 2010.
 b.. Snorkel's Bar & Grill and Beach Café are closed. Cruz Bay Prime is being used as the main restaurant until further notice.
 c.. All beaches on St. John are closed until the necessary water safety tests can be performed. For the most up to date information please visit www.dpnr.gov.vi/notices.htm.

Due to the above limitations, the hotel is not accepting any new
reservations from October 6 to 10, 2010. The hotel is waiving any
cancellation fees for customers who would like to cancel their reservations from October 6 to October 28, 2010. If you would like to reschedule your upcoming reservation to a later date please contact our Reservations Team at 888-627-7206


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## Westin5Star

bom... I'm glad that I went last week.


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## olivias dad

Wow~ due to the slow moving nature of this storm, its actually sounding worse than our already old-friend Earl, while a huge threat, quickly moved thru the area - it sounds like this storm has been spinning and churning around for a while.  My prayers to everyone there.


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## LisaRex

Bummer to everyone, including locals who rely on tourist income for their living.


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## jerseygirl

Westin5Star said:


> bom... I'm glad that I went last week.



Bom - okay, I FINALLY get it, LOL!!  :hysterical:


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Photos from the Westin following Otto*

Check out this link to see photos at the Westin following the storm

http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/blog/?p=75


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## Westin5Star

bom... WOW I cannot believe the difference from last week to this week.  We left last Friday and everything looked perfect and the weather was beautiful.  I feel very bad for the locals and for those who will have their vacations ruined or at minimum negatively impacted.  I hope the storm gets the heck out of there and things get back to normal soon!  Thank you for sharing the information and photos.


----------



## caterina25

I just saw this
Travel Advisory for The Westin St. John Resort & Villas 

Due to extremely heavy rain as a result of tropical depression #17 in the USVI, the area around The Westin St. John Resort & Villas experienced heavy flooding resulting in damage to the property. The resort is open but we are encouraging Owners traveling in the near future to make alternate arrangements since available services at the resort are limited. Among other things, the property experienced severe beach erosion. The resort operations team is working quickly to return to normal operations.

A current resort update:

The resort pool is currently not in service. Scheduled to reopen by October 18, 2010
Limited Food & Beverage offerings
All beaches on St. John are performing water safety tests. Please visit www.dpnr.gov.vi/notices.htm for the most up-to-date information.
Severe Landscape damage
Should your traveling party be scheduled to arrive before October 18, 2010, please contact Owner Services toll free at 888.WV.OWNER (986.9637) or direct at 407.903.4635, to look into other vacation possibilities.


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## GeneNWendy

*Website for info at WSJ*

This website gives the official status of what's going on at WSJ:

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/property/overview/announcements.html?propertyID=1098#conditions


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## Robin&Mark

*Upcoming trip November 27 WSJ*

We are scheduled for a week Nov 27- Dec 4, we are taking our parents who are all in their 80's to WSJ. With what I have been reading not sure this is the best idea. The appeal of the beach at the hotel is that our folks would be able to just walk in the water and not have to worry about a long walk to get to the beach. They would not be able to sit on the beach at Hawks Nest or Trunks without beach chairs. Has anyone been or know of anyone who has been to the resort? We are trying to figure out if we should cancel our reservations or wait a bit to see how much more of the cleanup and beach restoration gets done in the next couple of weeks.
Anyone willing to offer any advice based on any past experiences with something like this I would appreciate hearing what you have to say.
Thank you
Robin


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## DavidnRobin

tough choice - supposedly everything at the resort (except the tennis courts I guess) should be finished before Nov27.  It seems like the real issue no matter is that the folks need beach chairs because it would be a shame to go all that way and only go to the Westin beach (Great Cruz Bay).

If you decide to go - I would figure out how to get 2 beach chairs because not visiting (sitting) on the beachs at Hawksnest, Trunk, Cinnamon, and Maho (all easy access beaches) would be a shame. If it were not for these beaches (as well as the many others) - there would not be as much reason to visit STJ (esp not for the Westin beach...).  oh... IMO


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## Robin&Mark

Thanks DavidnRobin. I am hoping to find somewhere in town to rent or buy beach chairs so we can have them to take. I did read they are providing free bus service to the surrounding beaches. Also yesterday we missed a call from the resort, I know on the web site it does say they are waiving cancellation fees and allowing people to move their reservations. It will be interesting to see if this is what the call is about.
Thanks again.


----------



## jerseygirl

We saw people with these last time .... Not sure of the brand just remember wanting the canopy as I burn very easily!

http://www.amazon.com/Folding-Canop...FV46/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1287779583&sr=8-5


----------



## DavidnRobin

Robin&Mark said:


> Thanks DavidnRobin. I am hoping to find somewhere in town to rent or buy beach chairs so we can have them to take. I did read they are providing free bus service to the surrounding beaches. Also yesterday we missed a call from the resort, I know on the web site it does say they are waiving cancellation fees and allowing people to move their reservations. It will be interesting to see if this is what the call is about.
> Thanks again.



Perhaps rent at Cruz Bay Sports (in town or at resort)?  Going to be expensive (based of mask/snorkel rental cost), but probably only rental place.  There will be no place to buy these on STJ (that I am aware of - or ever seen) - you can buy on STT since they have large retail stores.

You may want to ask on VINOW.com message board.


----------



## OCsun

jerseygirl said:


> We saw people with these last time .... Not sure of the brand just remember wanting the canopy as I burn very easily!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Folding-Canop...FV46/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1287779583&sr=8-5



We take two of these chairs with us each year.  We purchased a 40 inch blue duffel bag on line, which we call Big Blue.   The duffle holds two of these chairs and our snorkeling gear.  "Big Blue", is checked in with our other luggage and is easily taken to any beach we want to visit.   Trying to rent or purchase beach chairs or umbrellas on either St. Thomas or St. John is nearly impossible.  Pam


----------



## jerseygirl

OCsun said:


> We take two of these chairs with us each year.  We purchased a 40 inch blue duffel bag on line, which we call Big Blue.   The duffle holds two of these chairs and our snorkeling gear.  "Big Blue", is checked in with our other luggage and is easily taken to any beach we want to visit.   Trying to rent or purchase beach chairs or umbrellas on either St. Thomas or St. John is nearly impossible.  Pam



Were you there in June?  If so, I was the person at Trunk Bay pining after your chairs!  

I'm going to invest in them for next year.  Wondering if I can get them shipped straight to the resort. We have locked storage rooms in the pool villas, but there are not enough for everyone (I assume they were built with the original 4-week fractional owners in mind).  I think I will call to see if regular owners have access to use one. I'd be willing to take the risk even if it's shared space.


----------



## Robin&Mark

Our concerns are that none of our parents walk to well, all having bilateral artificial hips and knees along with lumbar stenosis and they don't take too well to lots of jolts when sitting. None of them are that steady on flat solid surfaces, let alone sand, which is why the beach at the resort appealed to all of us. I think we will look into the possibility of purchasing chairs and having them shipped there, might not be a bad alternative. Thank you all for your suggestions, they are greatly appreciated!


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## J&JFamily

Robin&Mark said:


> Our concerns are that none of our parents walk to well, all having bilateral artificial hips and knees along with lumbar stenosis and they don't take too well to lots of jolts when sitting. None of them are that steady on flat solid surfaces, let alone sand, which is why the beach at the resort appealed to all of us. I think we will look into the possibility of purchasing chairs and having them shipped there, might not be a bad alternative. Thank you all for your suggestions, they are greatly appreciated!



Hi Robin, I agree with David in an earlier post - you have a tough decision to make.  I'm in no way telling you to cancel and go elsewhere, however, I can tell you the following:  

We went to St. John (and WSJ) for the first time this past summer and had a great time (my wife, two kids, and other relatives).  The beaches are beautiful and the people and restaurants are great. 

Your description of your folks sounds very much like my mother - she is 78 years old, has had both hips replaced, her knee replaced, and spinal fusion surgery.  She is ambulatory but most outings require the use of a cane (longer walks we use a standard wheelchair for her).  As beautiful as St. John is, I don't think I would take her as it would just be too difficult on her physically.  If you rent a car and park at the local beaches, the walks from the parking lots to the beach could be a challenge for an elderly person.  Not unfathomable, but difficult.  One of these walks would not be impossible, but the cumulative effect of many walks might present a challenge.  If you opt to take taxis the ingress/egress into the taxis (taxis there are pickup trucks with benches built into the bed) could be very difficult.  Many of the taxis allow passengers to sit in the cab, but they are mostly large trucks and entering the cab might be very difficult.  I know my mom has a hard enough time just getting into my wife's minivan.  

As David pointed out, I'm not sure I would be satisfied just staying at the WSJ beach for an extended period of time.  Not that it is a bad beach (I live in southern CA and it is certainly nicer than our local beaches), but it doesn't compare to the other beaches on St. John.  

Anyway, best of luck and I certainly hope you have a great trip wherever you decide to go!!!


----------



## jerseygirl

I too have parents with recent ambulatory (and worse) problems and agree with everything J&J said ... but I think my parents would also have problems at most beaches.  If your goal is to provide them with a beach vacation, it probably will be difficult. But, if your goal is to allow them to relax and see a beautiful island, I think you can make it work.  I LOVE the pool at the WSJ.  The shuttles will pick you up at your room and deliver you poolside/beachside.  If your parents can navigate into the taxis (this begins at the airport), you can take an island tour (ask when you check in as I've found that we don't always receive our activities guide).  You can take taxis to some great restaurants and shopping!    

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can have a great vacation despite the limitations. I ask myself if my parents would rather go to St John even if they can't experience all the wonderful beaches or not go to St John at all ... And the answer is I think they'd rather go, limitations and all!  One of our last great vacations with my parents was in Europe.  Of course we were limited somewhat by what we could do ... But we treasure every minute of it!   

Just another opinion to throw into the mix!


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding Beach Chairs*



Robin&Mark said:


> Our concerns are that none of our parents walk to well, all having bilateral artificial hips and knees along with lumbar stenosis and they don't take too well to lots of jolts when sitting. None of them are that steady on flat solid surfaces, let alone sand, which is why the beach at the resort appealed to all of us. I think we will look into the possibility of purchasing chairs and having them shipped there, might not be a bad alternative. Thank you all for your suggestions, they are greatly appreciated!



Robin and Mark,

Wendy and I travelled this past June to St. John.  We spent a full day at Trunk Bay.  We were able to rent beach chairs there without a problem.  You pay approx $5.00 for each chair you rent and a $25.00 deposit (they take a credit card imprint, which they tear up when your return the chairs).  It was in one of the huts near the entrance.  Trunk Bay tends to get crowded later in the day as many tours from St Thomas with cruiseship passengers stop there.  There's a reason they all go there.  It is considered one of the 10 nicest beaches in the world according to National Geographic.  They also have an amazing underwater snorkel trail.  However, if you get there early (before 10:00am) you should have no problem getting the chairs.

If it were me, I would probably stick to the Westin beach and Trunk Bay.  Most other beaches have no snack bar nor decent restroom facilities.  You do have to pay a few dollars admission to Trunk Bay but it's well worth it.  By doing this you don't have to concern yourself with buying or shipping chairs.

Gene

P.S. - You may want to look at my suggestion under posting 611 for renting a vehicle in St. Thomas at or near the airport and taking it over to St. John on the car ferry barge.  This way your folks don't have to jump in and out of those pick-up truck taxis, hop onto the Westin ferry at $110.00 r/t per adult, and then be taken to your room  on the Iguanna Shuttle.  This way they get in one vehicle by the airport and don't get off until outside your villa at the Westin.  As you will see in the posting, the savings in money by doing this will be absolutely incredble.


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## Robin&Mark

Thanks for your suggestions J&J Family, I had thought of the difficulty with the taxis access, the small steps and the fact that they are not the most comfortable. They may be able to do one walk to get to a beach but not much more than that which is why the beach there, easy walk into the water no waves is appealing. We are seeing them all this week and will discuss all of our options.

Jerseygirl - 
We have similar thoughts to those you have expressed. We live in the east, so the flight isn't that long, we can manage our folks in the airports. We are not sure how many trips that involve air flight we will be able to take with them in the years ahead, not that they aren't willing, we just are not sure how able physically they will be. Our goal is to allow them a week in beautiful place to relax, enjoy some warm weather, and spend time together, we want this to be a time for them. They have no expectations of exploring the island, if we can it would be great, but if we can't, I think the Westin will provide them a spot they feel safe and with the use of the transportation at the resort we should be able to shuttle them from place to place with relative ease. Thank you for your time sharing your thoughts.

Gene&Wendy - 
Thanks so much for pointing me to your post around renting a vehicle in St Thomas. My husband had been thinking about this and the information you have shared here is terrific! I also appreciate knowing there is a beach where we can rent chairs as opposed to purchasing and shipping. We will also check out the snorkling trail, I didn't know there was one there.
Thank you all, great to find a place where so many are so thoughtful and willing to share their ideas and experiences, I appreciate all of the advice!


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## jarta

Robin&Mark,   ...   Please get started making your car reservation.  A large percentage of cars on St. John are rented for the next year as the vacationers leave the island.  You have a little more than 1 month until you arrive.

Here is an older map of the resort:  http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif

Parking is convenient for the Hillside 2-br or less units (Buildings 31-34).  But, they are called Hillside because they are perched up on a high hill (notice the switch-backs).  Pools were built for each block of buildings because they are remote from the rest of the resort.  Great panoramic views from up there.

If you are worried about walking on flat sand, you wouldn't want your 80ish parents walking up or down those steep hills.  Golf carts are provided on a "catch as catch can" schedule by the resort.  But, carts zoom around all the time.  The waits are not that long to get down or up the hill.  

The Hillside 3-br pool units are on the flats (Buildings 41-44).  While closer to the beach, they are still a 2-2.5 city block walk to the main pool or the beach.

The newer portion of the timeshare resort (now called Buena Vista) is in Buildings 24-27.  The path from Buildings 24 and 25 to the pool and beach is the flatter walk.  The path to and from from Buildings 26 and 27 would be a scary walk for many 80 year olds.  And, the car parking for Buildings 24-27 is next to the tennis courts.  (No car traffic is allowed past the tennis courts/conference parking area - only golf carts allowed.)

The remainder of the buildings on the map are parts of the hotel.  They are quite close to the pool and beach.

WSJ is a lovely place to vacation.  The island is picturesque around every turn.  It seems hard to get a bad meal there.  I know you will enjoy it.  

But, if you decide you want a car, make arrangements as soon as possible.  (And, watch out for worn and under-inflated tires on the rental car.)   ...   eom


----------



## gravitar

jarta said:


> The newer portion of the timeshare resort (now called Buena Vista)



To avoid confusion, I believe it is Bay Vista.

Steve


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## Robin&Mark

Thank you Jarta for the advise about reserving a car soon. I had not known there would be chance we could not get one. It is now on our list of things to accomplish by tomorrow! I also appreciate the map and your comments about the buildings and layout of the resort. At this point we will be staying in the newer villa buildings, I had thought the ones with the private pools may have been nice but it doesn't seem to be an option when trying to book through Starwood at least.  We plan on utilizing the golf carts as our primary transportation for them on the resort.
Thank you very much for your reply!
Robin


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## jarta

Steve,   ...   "To avoid confusion, I believe it is Bay Vista."

Senior moment.  Must have been thinking about Mickey!  Happens more and more often.  lol!   ...   eom


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## GeneNWendy

*Info I received from an WSJ owner who lives in USVI*

This news I heard about WSJ is not too good.  For Robin and Mark, I don't think you need to be concerned about anything, especially if you're staying in the newer Bay Vista Units.  However, this is of major concern to owners of the Virgin Grand Villas:

*I found out yesterday that there is damage to all the 2 bedroom
townhouse villas and I suspect there may be the same type of
damage to some of the three bedroom pool villas.  What happened
was that during hurricane Earl there was roof damage that wasn't
really discovered and then the heavy rains during the first week
of October led to water leaking in beneath the walls.  There were
people in some of these villas in between and as recently as last
week but when an owner attempted to move in on Sunday,
you can see the drywall at the top of the stairs separating and
there are probably mold and mildew issues.

This borders on criminal negligence by the Westin for not
recognizing this because you can see by looking at the roofs
that there are shingles missing and no flashing where the windows
protrude from the roof.

What a good plan it was to do the renovation prior to fixing
the roofs!  By the way there are still 100 hotel rooms/villas
off-line due to flood/rain related damages.  I also found out
that part of the problem with the big pool was that they didn't
backwash the system prior to refilling so when it was turned
on, it just refilled with mud.

Speaking about the roof replacement, there is an owner here,
Rick XXXXXX, who is a contractor with experience doing roofs.
He was shocked when I told him of the Starwood estimate
of $750K per roof replacement.  He estimated that his
company could replace one of these roofs within a week
and this estimate is much more than double what he thinks
that it should be.  He also said there are many great
roofing materials now available that will withstand over
200 MPH winds.

It should be a real interesting Board meeting on 4 November.*


----------



## DavidnRobin

This is very disconcerting (esp as a 2Bd TH Owner), but... *criminal *negligence???  Isn't that a bit extreme?
[loose law definition: criminal negligence is recklessly acting without reasonable caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death (or failing to do something with the same consequences)]


----------



## GeneNWendy

*In response to last posting*



DavidnRobin said:


> This is very disconcerting (esp as a 2Bd TH Owner), but... *criminal *negligence???  Isn't that a bit extreme?
> [loose law definition: criminal negligence is recklessly acting without reasonable caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death (or failing to do something with the same consequences)]




Dave and Robin,

You are right.  I think "negligence" is sufficient.  However, I am simply quoting what an owner told me.

Gene


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## CAK1

Hi Robinand Mark,

I'll be at the WSJ Nov 14 - 21st so I can give you an update when I'm there. I too debated canceling our trip.  A Starwood rep called to  I offer a replacement vacation to one of the Westin TS in Mexico & Hawaii (to be used within 2010! ) or deposit my week in II  .
After a few phone calls I was able to get the rep to find me a 2 bdm at the Harborside @ Atlantis for the same week of 11/14.   It was very tempting but the cost of changing our airline tickets and rebooking 3 people to the bahamas was over $1,400 so we decided to stay with our original plans and go to WSJ.  

I was told by the Starwood Rep that a portion of the WSJ beach is open for guests plus they are shuttling guests 3 time a day to Hawksnest, Trunk Bay and Cinnamon Bay.  I will have a full report when I get there.  

Just praying the resort pool and kids club opens as scheduled!

Carrie


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## NerdAlert

*Starwood WSJ Storm Response Team*

I have a December rental that someone backed out of. Claimed the resort was "wiped out" etc.. I contacted Starwood about the progress of the repairs. They told me there is a special WSJ Storm team that has their pulse on the progress. They suggested I give my potential renters their direct number to ease their concerns. The number is: (888) 619-2989. They said tennis courts will be done by end of October, which is more optimistic than the Westin website.


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## DavidnRobin

Thanks for the info.


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## jarta

Another point of view from someone who stayed in Bldg. 31 last week:

" Tim says: 
October 26, 2010 at 9:48 pm 
We just returned home after staying at the Hillside Villas for a week. The weather was absolutely beautiful and the resort was in fine condition given all that it has been through in the past few months. Our villa and pool (BLDG 31) was in excellent condition. The main pool undergoing repairs, seems they may be taking advantage of the opportunity to get caught up on long term maintenance. 

The beaches including Honeymoon, Hawksnest, Trunk Bay, Cinnamon Bay, Francis, Salt Pond and others were all open and beautiful as always. 

Most of the resturants in Cruz bay are open. The crowds were light during our stay and most beaches less than crowded.

Miss Lucy’s will be open in Novemeber and Vie’s should be open by the first of Nov."

http://seestjohn.com/st_john_life/life-on-st-john/westin-resort-update-on-flood-damage/

Hard to tell what's what.    ...   eom


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## NerdAlert

New Starwood estimate on tennis courts= first week of December


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## gores95

[ We just cancelled our Westin 2BR Villa ressie and just booked a 3BR villa on VRBO for our five night trip on 11/3.  With two kids in tow, not having the pool, pool area, kids club, etc. it was a no brainer for me to cancel.

Disappointed but happy we were able to find another rental.  VRBO is a great resource for finding last minute rentals in a pinch.  We will be staying in the Grande Bay condos in Cruz Bay...not far from the Westin.

Downside is we were using Starwood points for our stay...now we are shelling out $2K for the five nights.


----------



## DavidnRobin

gores95 said:


> [ We just cancelled our Westin 2BR Villa ressie and just booked a 3BR villa on VRBO for our five night trip on 11/3.  With two kids in tow, not having the pool, pool area, kids club, etc. it was a no brainer for me to cancel.
> 
> Disappointed but happy we were able to find another rental.  VRBO is a great resource for finding last minute rentals in a pinch.  We will be staying in the Grande Bay condos in Cruz Bay...not far from the Westin.
> 
> Downside is we were using Starwood points for our stay...now we are shelling out $2K for the five nights.



Hi Marc - let us know what you think about the Grande Bay condos after your stay (they have some STJ controversy...) - Beach Bar is right down street. Too bad VRBO costs so much to rent as a 1 week TS owner - we used VRBO for our recent Milan stay - enjoy


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## sail27bill

*Just A Few Quick Questions...*

I just got back from an owners update at SVV.  We did not buy anything from them this time (own 2 developer weeks already--Harborside and SVV; I feel I have been drained of enough money) but always wanted to own at St. John. Please note that my husband Bill (this is the Anita part posting of Anita and Bill today) would love to get to 5* elite eventually.  Personally I have better things to do with that money, but whatever.  They kept pushing us to buy additional units at SVV eventhough we weren't interested in buying there as we already own a unit.  I kept asking about St. John and got nowhere.  (It might be because my husband kept bringing up Tug and they refused to talk about requalifying a unit and how the procedures stand now since he was looking at purchasing on ebay to requalify to count towards gaining 5*elite status).  I am not sure if they could sell us St. John at SVV (thus they did not discuss it) but my point of posting is as such:

1.  What is the going rate for a summer EOY week at St. John from Starwood as an EOY works for me? (I am going to compare resale prices, but just wanted to know.  If the difference isn't much, and they have a week I want, would have to really consider buying from Starwood again although it probably would kill me to do so.
2.  Has the tax issue been resolved?
3. When does the special assessment end?  (Please note that we can afford the high MF so not really an issue per se, just wondering).

My reason for purchasing St. John is to go there.  Don't really care about the requalifying part as much to tell you the truth.  I would rather own where i want to go rather than get to 5*.  (Have to convince the Hubby though). I spent many summers traveling to different carribbean islands when I was younger with my family and I love it.  Bill and I have lived overseas, traveled extensively and can't be bothered to call to trade using staroptions.  Our SVV we use mostly to trade so this was an expensive learning lesson.  

I apologize if these questions have been answered before, but I tried searching and it is a long thread.  Thank you in advance for your answers and suggestions (even if all you can say is that we are crazy to do so). 

Thanks again,
Anita


----------



## jerseygirl

I received an offer about a month ago to puchase a regular EOY 2-BR summer week in Bay Vista (new phase - voluntary - float week) for about $18K or a late spring (adjacent to a week we already own) EOY pool villa for $23.5K.  These are round numbers from memory.  

I don't think the tax issue is truly resolved.  They agreed on an amount owed for one of the past years ... But I think they're still working on several other past due years.  I don't believe there will be a big impact on Bay Vista as I think Starwood is collecting an approximate amount each year.  Also, if you buy a phase one from Starwood, I don't think you're responsible for back taxes prior to your ownership.  Is it a potential issue?  Yes, but probably not a big one in the overall scheme of things.

The bulk of the special assessment for phase one was scheduled to be paid in 2011 with a very small deferral into 2012 (less than $100 I think).  However, we've received no communication regarding possible expenses associated with the clean-up of the recent storm.


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## sail27bill

Dear Jerseygirl,

Thanks so much for your response.  Those numbers fit in quite nicely with my plans if I have to buy directly from Starwood versus a resale.  I have heard stories about the recent storm damage.  Hopefully everything will be fixed and back to normal soon.  Owning in the carribbean is not for the faint of heart.

Regards,
Anita


----------



## jerseygirl

You're welcome. I will send you a PM with the name of a sales rep who you can deal with remotely. 

I'm sure you know this, but if you're thinking about a retro, you should have the resale purchase done prior to buying the developer week.  I think I remember someone posting on TUG about a "in the works" resale that was able to be retro'd after the fact as part of the contract, but I wouldn't want things with Starwood to be any more complicated than they need to be!


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## DavidnRobin

re: Property Tax - just paid 2006 and 2007 will be due soon - these at at 1998 rates.  When they go up - expect them to double.

re: Special Assessment... I am sure someone will chime in here with the argument that this wasn't really a SA - just an increase in the Replacement Reserves for a 3 year period - which is semantics since the bottom-line affects Owners in the same way (unless they want to persue legal action - then the definition matters - IMO this would fail - and it is time to move on - IMO)... regardless, the 'SA' ends with the 2011 MF (the one coming up).  However, for Hillside (Virgin Grand) there appears to be an issue with the roofs/sidings - I was under the impression was being covered in the 'SA' while reports are that they were not - I would love to get clarification on this.

The SOs for an EOY summer villa will not come with significant SOs towards 5* (also a waste of time IMO... ok, ok - for 99.9% of people...).

I agree - buy where and when you want to go (and buy resale) - if you buy Hillside (Virgin Grand) - this is essentially a fixed week. If you need a float week - then you will need to buy Bay Visa.


----------



## jarta

jerseygirl,   ...   "you should have the resale purchase done prior to buying the developer week. I think I remember someone posting on TUG about a "in the works" resale that was able to be retro'd after the fact as part of the contract"

I have a sale "pending" with Starwood where I was told late last month not to sign the Term Sheet because I did not have a recorded deed for the "to be retroed" week to give to Starwood.  Starwood policy is not to extend the time to back out of the deal even one day to "finalize" the developer purchase by completing the retro.

I also think that some of the delay people are experiencing with Starwood Title is that they fax a copy of a contract and/or an unrecorded deed to Jose Pagan.  Jose merely puts the contracts and unrecorded deeds to the side and waits for the recorded copy of the deed to arrive from the closing agent.  Thus, the wait time is perceived to be even longer than it is.

However, no recorded deed means no action to change the resort's records concerning the owner.  Nonetheless, the waiting time has increased by multiples of time because of all the new owners caused by foreclosures due to economic conditions and, I'm sure, a constriction in Jose's office work force.

Starwood has been notified that my "pending" Riverfront ski week developer purchase is linked to a retro of a Platinum non-developer purchase at WMH but has not reacted yet.  Sometimes you just have to wait.   ...   eom


----------



## CAK1

*[deleted]*

[Advertising deleted - please consider using the TUG Marketplace - DeniseM]


----------



## sail27bill

Thanks David and Robin, Jerserygirl and Jarta for your comments and suggestions.  I will keep them in mind as I pursue my purchase.  I understand that an EOY doesn't give many staroptions, but I truly am interested in buying St. John for pleasure.  I am not sure if I want a fixed or float yet, so for now I am considering both options.  Whether we get to 5* with buying and retroing more units in the future remains to be seen.  We travel a bit and have no problem with staying in hotels as we are constantly on the move, so Bill's dream might have to sit awhile as I don't necessarily want to only be tied to Starwood and timeshares.

As my life and vacations usually revolve around what everyone else likes to do, this purchase would truly be a "mommy" purchase.  The best part though is that I am sure my family would love it.  God....am I sounding like a Starwood commercial or what?  I guess I sat too long in the owners update and had too much to drink of their kool-aid.  But I have to admit, the timeshare bug has bit hard and I can't wait for my next vacation.

Thanks for all your insight, comments and well wishes.  Happy travels!
Anita


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## DavidnRobin

Carrie - surprised DeniseM didnt chime in - but I do not think you can offer TSs for sale on this forum... just saying
Go Giants!


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## CAK1

My bad !  I don't post often as you can see.....  

Won't happen again

Carrie


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## DavidnRobin

WSJ-VG Owners - please be aware that HOA docs (etc) are now being listed on MyStarCentral (MSC) under 'Your Association Association'.

Importantly - an updated version of the CCRs/Owners Manual (large), approved budget, and audit of budget.  Unfortunately, the long letter drafted by HOA BOD Owner-members Phil and Bob are not included.  What is pathetic are the minutes from BOD meetings (little to no info) - hopefully that will change...


----------



## DeniseM

DavidnRobin said:


> Carrie - surprised DeniseM didnt chime in - but I do not think you can offer TSs for sale on this forum... just saying
> Go Giants!



Oooppsss...missed that one.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Letter from Bob and Phil*



DavidnRobin said:


> WSJ-VG Owners - please be aware that HOA docs (etc) are now being listed on MyStarCentral (MSC) under 'Your Association Association'.
> 
> Importantly - an updated version of the CCRs/Owners Manual (large), approved budget, and audit of budget.  Unfortunately, the long letter drafted by HOA BOD Owner-members Phil and Bob are not included.  What is pathetic are the minutes from BOD meetings (little to no info) - hopefully that will change...



Are you referring to the letter Bob and Phil sent out in early October?  If so, I can provide a link to that.

Gene


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## DavidnRobin

Gene - Yes, that letter - if you could provide a link that would be great.  I tend to keep my files electronically as paper copies get buried.  I hope all is well. - David


----------



## Robin&Mark

*Property Update?*

Morning everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone has actually been on the property this week? We understand there has been a lot of rain again, pool filled with muddy water, again. With our upcoming trip trying to be prepared for what we may encounter. I know some had written previously they would be there about now. Any information anyone is willing to share would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,


----------



## DavidnRobin

Prepare for mosquitoes that come after rains.
I do not know about the latest status of the pool - you can call the front desk at WSJ and ask. It was cleaned, but they screwed up by not flushing the system - and then got flooded again from very heavy rain due to a Tomas rain-band.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ-VG HOA BOD Email - Re: Hurricane damage reserve*

Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Villa Owner:

At the November 4 meeting, the Board of Directors approved the proposed budget that was sent to you about a month ago.  So maintenance fees for 2011 will be 6.7% lower than those for 2010, and you will notice many improvements in the resort over the next year.

But as you may know, a tropical depression that later was designated Tropical Storm Otto hit the island and caused a large amount of damage to the resort.  For weeks, the big pool was closed, most of the restaurants couldn’t operate, there was significant landscape damage, and some of the villa units were damaged by water coming through the doors and windows (repairs to the damage are underway and the resort is almost back to normal).  We were very lucky, because insurance will cover the vast majority of the expense.  If the storm had been designated by the National Hurricane Center as a named tropical storm before it hit St. John, the insurance policy’s deductible of 5% of the value of the property – more than a million and a half dollars – would have applied, and we would have been responsible for making up a significant fraction of that cost.

We think this storm was an important warning signal to us owners.  Although we are reluctant to recommend an increase in future maintenance charges by creating additional reserves, we suggested in our last letter to you that starting a reserve fund to cover the insurance deductible for storm damage seemed prudent.  We now believe that more strongly than ever.  The 2011 budget does not include a set-aside for such a reserve, but we think that it would be prudent to create a dedicated reserve fund for this purpose.  We plan to propose initiating the fund in the 2012 budget, though it will be many years before the fund is large enough to protect us from having to pay, in a short time, to make repairs after a catastrophic future hurricane.

We’ll contact you again after the next Board meeting in February.

Philip Schrag
phil.schrag@gmail.com

Bob Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com


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## GeneNWendy

*Oct 5, 2010 E-Mail from Bob Webel and Phil Schrag*

Here's a link to that e-mail.

http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=62


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## Robin&Mark

If I may ask a question how do you get on the email list? I am assuming it is for all villa owners, and would like to receive these emails.
Thank you,


----------



## DavidnRobin

Robin&Mark said:


> If I may ask a question how do you get on the email list? I am assuming it is for all villa owners, and would like to receive these emails.
> Thank you,



{added} Robin&Mark - you posted back in Sept about this-  did you not send in your response letter?

A few months ago - a mailing (snail mail) was sent out from SVO to WSJ-VG Owners asking them if they wanted to be included in a email database of VG Owners - and if so to respond (via snail mail) with your info.  I am not sure if this email was under that owner communication or not - but assume it is since it was signed by Phil and Bob.  It would have been nice to send this request for inclusion in the VG Owners-Group by email as well since SVO home addresses are not necessarily up-to-date (my week 23 info is still sent to previous owners).

I would email Bob/Phil asking how you can be included - or perhaps respond to the sender of the email (?).  The email came from:
"SVO Management Incorporated" svomanagement@svomanagementinc.com


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## DavidnRobin

GeneNWendy said:


> Here's a link to that e-mail.
> 
> http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=62



Thanks - I forgot that you had posted the link before (was busy) - it is good to have both a PDF and text copy of this newsletter.  I still haven't had a chance to go through the long letter, but this is a good chance to follow-up on some outstanding questions/clarification I have.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Robin&Mark said:


> Morning everyone,
> I was just wondering if anyone has actually been on the property this week? We understand there has been a lot of rain again, pool filled with muddy water, again. With our upcoming trip trying to be prepared for what we may encounter. I know some had written previously they would be there about now. Any information anyone is willing to share would be greatly appreciated.
> Thank you,



from WSJ website...

Improvements to the Grounds - Now through December 10, 2010
From September 2 until December 10, 2010, the resort will be updating its infrastructure. This work may temporarily affect the pristine aesthetics of the landscaping throughout the resort's main common area. The tennis courts are closed and are scheduled to reopen December 6, 2010. There is also a possibility of minor noise disruption between 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM, Monday through Saturday. We would like to reassure our loyal guests that the resort team is fully committed to minimizing any noise.

Limited Services Due to Inclement Weather
The Westin St. John Resort & Villas sustained damage due to heavy overnight rain and flooding in the early morning hours of November 8th.  The resort is open and is under limited services while the resort team works quickly to return to normal operations. 
A brief update:

- Snorkel's Bar & Grill is scheduled to reopen Saturday, November 13. 
- Our Beach and Pool are scheduled to reopen Saturday, November 13. 
- Our complimentary beach shuttle service to a select few National Park Beaches will continue until November 18, 2010. 
- Beach Café Restaurant is scheduled to reopen Sunday, November 14. 
- Cruz Bay Prime is scheduled to reopen Wednesday, November 17th with their fine dining menu. 
- The Kids Club & Arcade are anticipated to reopen November 22, 2010.
- During this time our Activities Department is providing babysitting service and activities for all ages around the resort. 
- The tennis courts are closed and are scheduled to reopen December 6, 2010. 
- Based on the recent events the resort will continue to waive the Resort Charge until November 18th.  The resort will waive all cancellation fees or no show charges until November 14th. 

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.


----------



## Robin&Mark

I did send the response letter and not heard if it was received, which obviously it was not since we did not get the information being discussed here. I will email Bob / Phil and ask to be placed on the mailing list. I appreciate having their email addresses.

The reason for my other post is today I had a call with Owner Services about our upcoming stay and asked about the recent rain, they kindly connected me with someone from a dedicated team, who receives information from the executive offices at the resort and I was told everything was operational and open. I also had a conversation with a concierge who told me the pool is open but the beach is closed currently and  the hope it will reopen either the end of November of the beginning of December, which is why I was asking if anyone was there now who could give me an update. I appreciate you posting what is on the website David and Robin, I had read that too, but when I got the conflicting information I was hoping someone would be able to give me an update from being there. 
Thank you


----------



## CAK1

*At the Westin St John now*

Hi RobinandMark,

I'm here now.  The resort pool is open and looks great.  The pool chairs are new but they do not have umbrellas up yet.   The beach at the resort is closed but Westin is providing a shuttle 3 times a day to the national park beaches. There are a few sailboat still grounded on the Westin beach.

Snorkels is open.  Kids Club & arcade are closed but they are opening the Kids Club at a temporary location on Thursday 18th. 

The grounds are a being worked on all day long. I haven't been across the street to check on the Hillside Villas but plan too today.

Is there anything specific you want me to check on?   I know it's tough to get information from the Westin Reps. 

It's been sunny & warm the last 2 days!
Carrie


----------



## Robin&Mark

Hi Carrie,
Thank you very much for responding. We were wondering about the reopening of the beach at the resort, have you heard of any anticipated time they hope to have the beach available for guests?

Also, do you know how long the time intervals are in between the transportation to the beaches? 

We will have one group of our party in Bay Vista and another in the Hillside while we are there. If it were just Mark and I coming none of this would be an issue, but with some elderly folks along planning is different and trying to have as much figured out as we can so all goes smoothly for them.

Thank you Carrie, glad to hear the pool is open and the weather has been warm!! I appreciate your help here.
Robin


----------



## CAK1

RobinandMark,

The Westin beach shuttle is 3 daily roundtrips to Cinnamon Bay, Trunk Bay and Hawks Nest Beach.

It leaves from the Hotel Lobby @ 10am, 11:30am and 1pm

Returning from the Beaches at 1:20pm, 3pm and 5pm.

You need to stop by the Front Desk to obtain your complimentary pass to the beaches.

As for the Westin Beach, there are chairs set up on the beach for guests to use and people have been swimming there although its "officially closed"  

I've asked around but haven't been able to get a straight answer when the beach will reopen. 

It appears the resort is focusing on getting the buildings with roof damage fixed (some of the hotel buildings by the pool) and the grounds looking beautiful again.

When are you coming down?  I debated not coming because of the storm damage but glad I decided to come.  

Hope this helps
Carrie


----------



## DavidnRobin

How did Building 34 hold up? Specifically 3410?


----------



## CAK1

I will check on that building for you tomorrow am.  It's too dark out now.

Carrie


----------



## Robin&Mark

Carrie, All of the information you have provided is great, you have been very helpful and I appreciate your responses.
We come after Thanksgiving so there is still a bit of time before we arrive. I am glad to hear you are happy you did not cancel, we are very excited to be going down!
I hope you have a wonderful rest of the week, and thanks again.
Robin


----------



## DavidnRobin

*November 16, 2010 Update*

Updated as of November 16, 2010 (from MSC)

Travel Update for The Westin St. John Resort & Villas 

During the months of October and November, The USVI has experienced extremely heavy rain associated with various storms. As a result, the area around The Westin St. John Resort & Villas experienced some flooding. Significant progress has been made in restoring the resort to the pristine condition our Owners enjoy. 

A current update: 

Due to the heavy rain resulting in severe beach erosion, the beach is currently closed. To support your beach experience, the resort is providing complimentary round trip shuttles to the local beaches until the sand replenishment for the resorts beach is completed. The pool is open for your enjoyment. 

The tennis courts also received significant damage. Efforts to reopen are underway. The resort is scheduled to reopen two courts starting the week of November 27th with all courts available December 6th. 
The Kids club and Arcade encountered water damage. The carpets have been removed and currently in the process of being replaced. These two areas are scheduled to re-open November 22nd. 

While these amenities may not be available, we expect Owners traveling to the property to have a very enjoyable vacation. Please contact Owner Services toll free at 888.WV.OWNER (986.9637) or direct at 407.903.4635 with questions.


----------



## CAK1

*Building 34*

DavidandRobin,

We drove up to building 34 and it appears to be in working order.  The villas looked occupied.   I'm scheduled to go to an owners update Friday morning (to get my 6,000 spg points  ), will see if I can get more information on the damage to the hillside villas.

Carrie


----------



## DavidnRobin

CAK1 said:


> DavidandRobin,
> 
> We drove up to building 34 and it appears to be in working order.  The villas looked occupied.   I'm scheduled to go to an owners update Friday morning (to get my 6,000 spg points  ), will see if I can get more information on the damage to the hillside villas.
> 
> Carrie



Thanks Carrie - there was a report that the 2Bd THs were affected - these villas are on the sides of the buildings.

I just bought our plane tickets for next June - SFO-ATL-STT (~$730pp RT on DLT)


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Westin St John voluntary directory is out*

Hi all, for those of you who own at the Virgin Grand Villas, the voluntary owner directory is out.  If you didn't get it, and, I can verify that you are in fact an owner there, I will try and get to you.

Gene


----------



## DavidnRobin

Gene - how was this sent out?


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding WSJ Voluntary Owner Directory*

Robin and Dave,

It was sent by an e-mail from Starwood with a link to the 151 page list.  I then printed it out and scanned it in PDF format.  I can forward to you the e-mail from Starwood and/or send you the 2 PDF files.  

Please send me a Private Message with the best e-mail address to use.  I believe your name was on that list, but I wasn't familiar with that particular address.

Gene


----------



## DavidnRobin

can you send me the email address contact? i want to know why i didnt get it.  you have my contact info from the other list - does it not match?

added - they have my email address incorrect - likely my poor handwriting.  I incorrectly read your post as 151 people - not pages.  It has 1280 Owners representing many weeks - excellent.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*2011 Wsj-vg Mf/rr*

WSJ-VG (Hillside) 2Bd TH - 2011 MF/RR
2011 MF = $1892.76
2011 RR = $782.68 (last part of 3-year additional RR... maybe...)
Total = $2675.44

2010 Total = $2866.05
(a decrease of $190.61 --> 6.65%)

I received this by mail - not on MSC yet.

MM/RR for all villas:
3Bd Pool = $3210.58
2Bd Prem = $3210.36
2Bd TH = $2675.44
1Bd = $2140.31
Studio = $1605.18


----------



## DavidnRobin

just for fun... the ruins and villas along this road are worth checking out - but hold on!

Jeep Cam for John Head Road - a reason to have a 4WD while on STJ.
http://www.on-stjohn.com/2010/12/03/jeep-cam-john-horn-road/#comments


----------



## Robin&Mark

*Update St John*

Thought I would post an update after being in St John last week. The resort looks great, there had been a lot of damage to landscaping around the hotel building which has been replaced. They are also upgrading the water lines, work is in progress with the hope to be finished by the end of this week I believe. There is major work being done on the road between the resort entrance the the St John market, the area of the gut which was one of the causes of the flooding during the heavy rains this summer. The  gut itself is being widened and cleaned out, the road raised and new concrete bridge was being done. Two of the tennis courts were completed, the rest close to completion when we left on Saturday, the ping pong table is not back yet but should be in a week or so. The beach is open, and has been restored, I believe more umbrellas are have been ordered and are due soon. 
We attended the owners meeting, they are having them weekly for anyone going anytime soon.
I am happy to say our parents loved the week. We did manage to get them to Cinnamon Bay one day, and on the beach at the resort 3 additional days. We did rent a car, thank you Gene, and they enjoyed seeing the island, we took them to Coral Bay one day and lunch at Miss Lucy's. Maneuvering across sand was their most challenging, but with lots of help from us and our children were in pretty good shape helping them to where they wanted to go. I want to thank all of you who offered us suggestions and thoughts prior to our trip, it was definitely a wonderful week for us.


----------



## jerseygirl

Very happy to hear you had a good time and that your parents were able to enjoy themselves!  Thanks for the update on the resort.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Glad you enjoyed yourselves*

Hi Robin and Mark,

I'm glad you enjoyed yourselves.  BTW, for anyone interested, I'm offering to give away one of my units.  Send me a private message if interested.

Gene


----------



## DavidnRobin

*New Gas Station close to WSJ*

Looks like there will be a new gas station opening close to WSJ.  Going to be interesting to see gas trucks going over Jacob's Ladder (steep road with blind/narrow hilltop between WSJ and Cruz Bay)

http://stjohnsource.com/content/new...-station-likely-get-permit-says-dpnr-official

Can't wait to see this flood into GCB and Tennis Corts...  Typical of STJ to allow a gas station here in close proximity to other/only gas station, but no gas in Coral Bay.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Unit taken*

For those of you who were interested, it appears that I have a taker for my unit.

Regards,
Gene


----------



## DavidnRobin

GeneNWendy said:


> For those of you who were interested, it appears that I have a taker for my unit.
> 
> Regards,
> Gene



Congrats...

btw - I heard that the Westin Ferry hit a reef the other day (injuring some passengers) - same reef that the STT-STJ car barge hit a week or so ago.
http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...-runs-aground&catid=554:201012-news&Itemid=38


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Regarding Westin Ferry Hits Reef*



DavidnRobin said:


> Congrats...
> 
> btw - I heard that the Westin Ferry hit a reef the other day (injuring some passengers) - same reef that the STT-STJ car barge hit a week or so ago.
> http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...-runs-aground&catid=554:201012-news&Itemid=38



The captain of the ferry needs to be careful!!  Those passengers are paying $110.00 r/t to take that ferry.  I read the article in your link.  I find it interesting that there were only about 23 passengers on the Westin Breeze.  When I used to take it, it was full to capacity.  I bet lots of people stopped taking it because of the outrageous cost.

Actually, upon further reading, I see that these weren't hotel guests, they were employees or (associates) as Mike Ryan (Westin GM) calls them.  The article also mentions that the Westin Breeze is owned and operated by Inter-Island Boat Services.  I wonder how much less the ferry would be if they took competitive bids with other operators and chose not to have the Westin name on it.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Easier Way to read story about Westin Breeze*

I took the article from Tradewinds and posted it into the St John Virgin Grand Villa Coalition Member's Blog.  After you click the link below, there is another link within it that has the article on the Westin Breeze.  This way you don't have to register for Tradewinds to see the story.


http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/blog/?p=119


----------



## jarta

"I read the article in your link. I find it interesting that there were only about 23 passengers on the Westin Breeze. When I used to take it, it was full to capacity. I bet lots of people stopped taking it because of the outrageous cost."

Gene   ...   The accident occurred at 9:15 am on the run from St. Thomas to St. John.  The ferry was bringing employees to work at the resort for the day.

The run from St. John back to St. Thomas is the one that carries guests heading back to the airport or for shopping on St. Thomas at that time of day.

I'm no fan of the increased fees and there have been posts about owners refusing to pay the fee, but I would not expect many tourists to be on that leg of the route at that time of day.

Interesting that another boat, the barge named General II, ran aground at the same rocky point less than 2 weeks earlier.  I wonder how the resort's guests are getting back and forth to the resort (and at what cost) while the Westin Breeze is being repaired?  Maybe someone who's there now can let us know?

I bet WSJ will be glad to see 2010 over and done with.  lol!   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

"posts of Owners refusing to pay the fee..." eom

what...? a bit over-stated (as normal) - perhaps you mean owners finding other means of getting to WSJ from STT and not taking the Breeze due to the cost.  That is a bit different than using the word 'refusing' because no one is forcing owners to take the Breeze (and never have...).  This has always gone on - even when the fees were $65 and owner discounted.

The Breeze is convenient - but costs have become ridiculous - but there are many alternatives (also - repeatedly discussed here and in trip reports).  We have now taking every option - renting on STT is clearly the best for anyone renting a car (for us...).

it has been speculated that the barge accidents have been cause by passage shortcuts by both the car barge and the Breeze. And in the case of the car barge - someone not certified was captaining the barge (it was rumored). This casual attitude about waterway usage is common in the USVI.  Hopefully, the Coast Guard will investigate.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*I erred*



jarta said:


> "I read the article in your link. I find it interesting that there were only about 23 passengers on the Westin Breeze. When I used to take it, it was full to capacity. I bet lots of people stopped taking it because of the outrageous cost."
> 
> Gene   ...   The accident occurred at 9:15 am on the run from St. Thomas to St. John.  The ferry was bringing employees to work at the resort for the day.
> 
> The run from St. John back to St. Thomas is the one that carries guests heading back to the airport or for shopping on St. Thomas at that time of day.
> 
> I'm no fan of the increased fees and there have been posts about owners refusing to pay the fee, but I would not expect many tourists to be on that leg of the route at that time of day.
> 
> Interesting that another boat, the barge named General II, ran aground at the same rocky point less than 2 weeks earlier.  I wonder how the resort's guests are getting back and forth to the resort (and at what cost) while the Westin Breeze is being repaired?  Maybe someone who's there now can let us know?
> 
> I bet WSJ will be glad to see 2010 over and done with.  lol!   ...   eom



Jarta,

You are correct.  I admit I messed up.  If you read the second part of my posting it says "Upon futher reading......"  It was only a run to bring employees back to the resort.  That's why there were only 23 "associates" as Mike Ryan points out.  The barge that you mention is actually one of the car ferry boats that go between Red Hook and Cruz Bay.  In one of my postings I encouraged people to rent a car in St Thomas and take one of those barges (there are 3 operators), since renting one is less expensive in St. Thomas and the barge runs only $25.00 each way per vehicle (not per passenger).  I suspect that the Breeze was doing a similar route from Red Hook if it was simply picking up employees.  I'm sure that company (Inter-Island Boats I think) has other boats to use while the Breeze is being repaired.

Gene


----------



## jarta

David,   ...   You are correct.  Nobody makes anyone take the Westin Breeze.  Saying "Owners refusing to pay the fee" was over-stated and not precise enough.

I guess I should have said that owners have posted they have started refusing to incur the Starwood fee by opting to take something other than the Breeze.

To all who were confused by my imprecision, I apologize.   ...   eom


----------



## Beaglemom3

I posted my WSJ unit for rent here and on Redweek.

This is my first time renting it out, so I am somewhat apprehensive.

Has anyone rented to a Mr. Ron Roskovich from Canada ? 

Hope this is okay to ask. Our correspondance has been very agreeable. He found the listing on Redweek.


Thank you for all the advice (especially you, DeniseM !) in renting this out.

Between the trip to Key West in February, the London-Normandy-Paris trip in May and the week in Nantucket - I'm done ! So, renting this out is the logical thing to do..

Thanks to all. You're a wealth of information.

Best,
B.


----------



## DeniseM

Hi Beegs!  

Are you getting the full payment upfront?  

How are you receiving payment?

If through paypal, I require the Paypal Acct. and the reservation to be in the same name (so they can't set up a Paypal Acct. with a stolen credit card.)  That actually happened to a Tugger recently!


----------



## Beaglemom3

I'm soooooo easy.   

No PayPal, check.

$1,000 deposit by Jan. 15th. The rest in the beginning of March.

I am keeping the listing online until all is paid in full.

Opinions ?


----------



## DeniseM

Beaglemom3 said:


> I'm soooooo easy.
> 
> No PayPal, check.
> 
> $1,000 deposit by Jan. 15th. The rest in the beginning of March.
> 
> I am keeping the listing online until all is paid in full.
> 
> Opinions ?



Do you have a no cancellation/no refunds policy in writing?

Do you recommend travel insurance?

What is your back up plan if they don't make the final payment?

As you know, I get a $100 deposit before I put the confirmation in the renter's name, and the balance is due in full as soon as they receive the confirmation from the resort.

The problem with taking the final payment late in the process is that they may want to back out, and expect you to finance their change of plans.  Recently someone posted about a renter who had a death in the family and a couple weeks before the rental, the owner was under tremendous pressure to give them a refund.  That's an awkward situation.


----------



## Beaglemom3

DeniseM said:


> Do you have a no cancellation/no refunds policy in writing?
> 
> What is your back up plan if they don't make the final payment?
> 
> As you know, I get a $100 deposit before I put the confirmation in the renter's name, and the balance is due in full as soon as they receive the confirmation from the resort.



Yes. It is in the language of the rental agreement and to be returned with the $1,000 deposit. I had one of the lawyers at my firm draw up a fairly intimidating agreement.   The $1,000 is forfeited if the final payment is not received by March 2nd.


Back up plan is: If no deposit in 2 weeks, the offer is null & void. Have taken no action as far as guest certificate as yet. Will continue to market unit until rented.

The deposit is non-refundable.


----------



## DeniseM

You sound like you've got all the bases covered! 

Will it be a personal check?

Just be sure the check clears before you write any checks against it.  If there is anything slightly weird about the check, you will want to ask your bank to check it out before you deposit it.  If the check bounces or is fraudulent, some banks charge the depositor a fee.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Damages - 2010 storms, Owner 'Opportunities'*

thread regarding damages due to 2010 storms - and WSJ Owner 'opportunites' to buy more WSJ VOIs.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137515


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Caribbean Travel+Life Magazine - Reader's Choice*

Best Overall Destination: Puerto Rico
Honorable Mention: Jamaica; St. John, USVI

Best Festival: Trinidad Carnival
Honorable Mention: Reggae Sunfest, Jamaica; St. Lucia Jazz Festival

Best Island to Live On: St. John, USVI
Honorable Mention: St. Thomas, USVI; Grand Cayman

Best Happy Hour: Rick’s Café, Jamaica
Honorable Mention: Sunset Beach Bar, St. Maarten; Soggy Dollar, BVI

Best Luxury Resort: Parrot Cay, Turks and Caicos
Honorable Mention: Jade Mountain, St. Lucia; Fowl Cay Resort, Bahamas

Best Family Resort: Atlantis, Bahamas
Honorable Mention: Beaches Turks & Caicos; The Buccaneer, St. Croix, USVI

Best Rum: Cruzan
Honorable Mention: Tortuga; Appleton

Best Beer: Red Stripe
Honorable Mention: Carib; Presidente

Best Shopping: St. Thomas, USVI
Honorable Mention: St. Martin; Old San Juan, Puerto Rico

Best Adventure Destination: Belize
Honorable Mention: Riviera Maya, Mexico; Puerto Rico

Best Snorkeling & Diving: Belize
Honorable Mention: Grand Cayman; Cozumel, Mexico

Best Small Hotel: Little Cayman Beach Resort
Honorable Mention: Rincón Beach Resort, Puerto Rico; Peter Island, BVI

Best Midsize Hotel: Caneel Bay, St. John, USVI
Honorable Mention: W Retreat & Spa, Vieques Island, Puerto Rico; Rosewood Little Dix Bay, BVI

Best Restaurant: The Cliff, Barbados
Honorable Mention: Kon Tiki, St. Maarten; Cracked Conch, Grand Cayman

Best Golf Resort: Four Seasons, Nevis
Honorable Mention: Sandy Lane, Barbados; Half Moon, Jamaica

Best Resort Spa: Silver Rain, Ritz-Carlton, Grand Cayman
Honorable Mention: Golden Door Spa, Las Casitas Resort, Puerto Rico; Hotel Guanahani & Spa, St. Barts

Best Beach: Seven-Mile Beach, Grand Cayman
Honorable Mention: Trunk Bay, St. John, USVI; Grace Bay, Turks and Caicos

Resort With the Best View: Jade Mountain, St. Lucia
Honorable Mention: Anse Chastanet, St. Lucia; Peter Island, BVI

Best Bang for the Buck Resort: Beaches Turks & Caicos
Honorable Mention: Lazy Parrot Inn, Puerto Rico; Sunset House, Grand Cayman

Best Mega-resort: Atlantis, Bahamas
Honorable Mention: Wyndham Sugar Bay, St. Thomas, USVI; Caribe Hilton, Puerto Rico

Best All-Inclusive Resort: Beaches Turks & Caicos
Honorable Mention: Peter Island, BVI; Jumby Bay, Antigua

Best Island for Celebrity-Watching: St. Barts
Honorable Mention: Turks and Caicos; Anguilla

Best Natural Attraction or Park: Virgin Islands National Park, St. John, USVI
Honorable Mention: El Yunque National Forest, Puerto Rico; Bonaire National Marine Park

Best Romantic Resort: Jade Mountain, St. Lucia
Honorable Mention: Peter Island, BVI; The Caves, Jamaica


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Sales - 2010 (from CBR)*

for those who love sales data... from CBR (Real Estate Firm on STJ)
WVC => WSJ
[Note: Information on this site is believed to be accurate but not guaranteed.]

*2010 WSJ Sales*
week/period - list price (?) - villa type (Bd/Ba) - sales price (?)
Westin Vacation Club 27 $15,000 1X2 $250 
Westin Vacation Club 48 $15,995 1 X 2 $2,000 
Westin Vacation Club 47 $15,995 1 X 2 $2,000 
Westin Vacation Club 46 $15,995 1 X 2 $2,000 
Westin Vacation Club 49 $15,995 1 X 2 $2,000 
Westin Vacation Club 50 $15,995 1 X 2 $2,000 
Westin Vacation Club 28 $2,500 2 X 3 $2,500 
Westin Vacation Club 27 $2,500 2 X 3 $2,500 
Westin Vacation Club 46 $4,800 Studio $4,650 
Westin Vacation Club 2 $17,500 Studio $11,250 
Westin Vacation Club 11 $17,000 3 X 3 $13,500 
Westin Vacation Club Floating 33 - 50 $15,000 3 X 3 $13,500 
Westin Vacation Club 1 $15,000 Studio $13,500 
Westin Vacation Club 4 $15,900 Studio $14,500 
Westin Vacation Club 1 Month Rotating $18,000 1 X 2 $15,000 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $22,000 2 X 3 $15,000 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $19,000 3 X 3.5 $17,250 
Westin Vacation Club 9 $19,500 2 X 3 $19,500 
Westin Vacation Club 8 $19,500 2 X 3 $19,500 
Westin Vacation Club 3 & 4 $20,000 Studio $20,000 
Westin Vacation Club 3 $55,000 3 X 3 $30,000 
Westin Vacation Club 11 $55,000 3 X 3.5 $32,500 
Westin Vacation Club 10 $55,000 3 X 3.5 $32,500 
Westin Vacation Club 7 $52,900 3 X 3.5 $45,750 
Westin Vacation Club 6 $52,900 3 X 3.5 $45,750 
Westin Vacation Club 25 $55,000 3 X 3 $47,000 
Westin Vacation Club 51 $100,000 3 X 3.5 $80,000 
Westin Vacation Club 52 $110,000 3 X 3.5 $85,000 
Westin Vacation Club 51 $110,000 3 X 3.5 $85,000


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ sales - 2009/2008/2007/2006 (from CBR)*

2009 WSJ Sales from CBR

Westin Vacation Club 41 $10,000 2 X 3  $6,500 
Westin Vacation Club 49 $11,000 Studio $7,500 
Westin Vacation Club 42 $10,000 1 X 2 $7,500 
Westin Vacation Club 43 $12,500 Studio $8,200 
Westin Vacation Club 43 $14,950 2 X 3 $14,950 
Westin Vacation Club 13 $25,995 1 X 2 $17,500 
Westin Vacation Club 14 $25,995 1 X 2 $17,500 
Westin Vacation Club 32 $28,000 3 X 3.5 $18,000 
Westin Vacation Club Nov. 21 - Dec. 21 $18,000 Studio $18,000 
Westin Vacation Club 11 $33,000 1 X 2 $20,000 
Westin Vacation Club 3 $22,000 1 X 2 $20,000 
Westin Vacation Club 1 $50,000 1 X 2 $22,000 
Westin Vacation Club 48 $35,000 3 X 3 $22,500 
Westin Vacation Club 2 $50,000 1 X 2 $25,000 
Westin Vacation Club 33 $37,500 3 X 3.5 $26,000 
Westin Vacation Club 34 $33,000 3 X 3  $27,000 
Westin Vacation Club 4 $40,000 3 X 3.5 $29,000 
Westin Vacation Club 44 $29,900 3 X 3 $30,000 
Westin Vacation Club 22 $37,500 3 X 3.5 $37,500

2008
Westin Vacation Club 40 $8,000 Studio $7,000 
Westin Vacation Club 39 $8,000 Studio $7,000 
Westin Vacation Club 14-0 $12,000 Studio $7,500 
Westin Vacation Club 21 $12,500 Studio $12,500 
Westin Vacation Club 46 $15,000 1 X 2 $13,500 
Westin Vacation Club 33 $16,900 1 X 2 $16,900 
Westin Vacation Club 39 $19,999 2 X 3 $18,000 
Westin Vacation Club 3 $18,700 1 X 2 $18,400 
Westin Vacation Club 3 $22,000 1 X 2 $20,600 
Westin Vacation Club 11 $22,900 Studio $21,000 
Westin Vacation Club 8 $24,995 Studio $22,000 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $29,900 2 X 3 $27,000 
Westin Vacation Club 19 $29,995 2 X 3 $27,500 
Westin Vacation Club 9 $35,500 1 X 2 $32,500 
Westin Vacation Club 5 $48,995 1 X 2 $40,000 
Westin Vacation Club 10 $44,500 2 X 3 $42,000 
Westin Vacation Club 28 $49,000 3 X 3.5 $46,500 
Westin Vacation Club 52 $119,000 3 X 3.5 $114,000 

2007
Westin Vacation Club 20 $15,000 Studio $7,500 
Westin Vacation Club 30 $10,000 Studio $11,000 
Westin Vacation Club 45 $15,398 1 X 2 $12,000 
Westin Vacation Club 27 $19,900 1 X 2 $12,750 
Westin Vacation Club 28 $19,900 1 X 2 $12,750 
Westin Vacation Club 27 $19,900 1 X 2 $15,000 
Westin Vacation Club 50 $17,900 Studio $16,350 
Westin Vacation Club 25 $19,900 1X2 $16,500 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $27,995 1X2 $20,000 
Westin Vacation Club 7 $24,900 Studio $22,000 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $25,000 1 X 2 $23,000 
Westin Vacation Club 31 $31,500 2X3 $28,000 
Westin Vacation Club 16 $29,500 2 X 3 $28,000 
Westin Vacation Club 27 $34,995 2X3 $29,000 
Westin Vacation Club 46 $33,995 2X3 $30,000 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $45,000 3 X 3.5 $32,000 
Westin Vacation Club 10 $34,000 1 X 2 $32,000 
Westin Vacation Club 19 $40,000 3 X 3.5 $37,500 
Westin Vacation Club 32 $42,500 3 X 3.5 $41,500 
Westin Vacation Club 28 $52,995 3X3.5 $45,000 
Westin Vacation Club 30 $50,000 3X3.5 $45,000 
Westin Vacation Club 4 & 5 $50,000 Studio $46,500 
Westin Vacation Club 4 $49,000 3 X 3.5 $47,000 
Westin Vacation Club 7 $63,500 2X3 $52,000 
Westin Vacation Club 5 $59,000 3 X 3 $57,000 
Westin Vacation Club 7 $63,500 2 X 3 $59,500 
Westin Vacation Club 3 $69,000 3X3.5 $60,000 
Westin Vacation Club Aug. 21 - Sept. 21 $75,000 1 X 2 $64,750 
Westin Vacation Club 23 & 24 $66,000 2 X 3 $65,000 
Westin Vacation Club 51 $80,000 2 X 2 $75,000 
Westin Vacation Club 13 & 14 $113,000 3X3 $90,000 
Westin Vacation Club 51 $98,500 3 X 3 $94,000 
Westin Vacation Club 29 & 30 $115,000 3 X 3.5 $105,000 

2006
Westin Vacation Club 40 $11,000 Studio $7,000 
Westin Vacation Club 46 $13,000 Studio $11,000 
Westin Vacation Club 15 $15,000 Studio $12,000 
Westin Vacation Club 29 $14,500 Studio $13,900 
Westin Vacation Club 16 $16,000 Studio $14,500 
Westin Vacation Club 27 $23,900 1X2 $15,000 
Westin Vacation Club 47 $16,000 1X2 $15,000 
Westin Vacation Club 44 $16,000 Studio $16,000 
Westin Vacation Club 35 $18,000 2X2 $17,000 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $19,500 Studio $17,750 
Westin Vacation Club 16 $20,000 Studio $17,750 
Westin Vacation Club 2 $19,900 Studio $19,000 
Westin Vacation Club 28 $22,000 1X2 $19,500 
Westin Vacation Club 24 $19,900 2X3 $19,900 
Westin Vacation Club 41 $25,000 2X3 $20,000 
Westin Vacation Club 2 $22,000 Studio $20,000 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $23,000 1X2 $20,000 
Westin Vacation Club 5 $23,500 Studio $20,000 
Westin Vacation Club 9 $24,995 Studio $20,800 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $24,500 1X2 $21,000 
Westin Vacation Club 29 $23,500 2X3 $21,150 
Westin Vacation Club 27 $22,800 1X2 $21,600 
Westin Vacation Club 31 $22,900 2X3 $22,900 
Westin Vacation Club 29 $25,500 2X3 $23,500 
Westin Vacation Club 10 $24,995 Studio $24,000 
Westin Vacation Club 17 $32,100 2X3 $30,000 
Westin Vacation Club 25 $42,000 3X3 $40,000 
Westin Vacation Club 1 $40,995 1X2 $40,995 
Westin Vacation Club 10 $58,995 3X3 $58,995 
Westin Vacation Club 52 $90,000 3X3 $85,000 
Westin Vacation Club 51 $90,000 3X3 $85,000 
Westin Vacation Club 5 & 6 $150,000 3X3 $145,500


----------



## LisaRex

DavidnRobin said:


> Westin Vacation Club 48 $15,995 1 X 2 $2,000



What do you suppose "1 x 2" and $2,000" means?

1 bdrm, 2 baths? $2000 closing costs?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*deleted - duplicate*

deleted - duplicate


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> What do you suppose "1 x 2" and $2,000" means?
> 
> 1 bdrm, 2 baths? $2000 closing costs?



assume - a 1Bd villa that sold for $2000
just a copy/paste info from CBR that I found from a link on Frank Barnako's blog (US Virgin Island News)

I just thought it would be intesting info to capture... (as one who favors info such as this - even though it negatively reflects on my WSJ VOIs...)

look at the drop in resale prices since 2006 - yikes!


----------



## LisaRex

DavidnRobin said:


> assume - a 1Bd villa that sold for $2000
> just a copy/paste info from CBR that I found on Frank Barnako's blog (US Virgin Island News)



Then what's the first number ($15,995)?


----------



## beach.bar.bob

LisaRex said:


> Then what's the first number ($15,995)?



Listing price...


----------



## LisaRex

beach.bar.bob said:


> Listing price...



Ahhh. That's quite a drop!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

I was too busy with copy/paste - I would assume list and sale price, but this is an assumption - plus caveat that information is believed to be accurate but not guaranteed...

It is a wealth of TS sales info probably more than anywhere else and more reliable - certainly more reliable than eBay (for instance)

I meant the drop in sales price from 2006 to 2010, not list to sale drop (also dramatic in some cases)

Also dramatic - is the sales price differential between weeks (high season to low season)

LisaRex - there apear to be a few that could be typos - for example the very first one
Westin Vacation Club 27 $15,000 1X2 $250 
could be $2,500 if the ones that follow hold that trend

also - this is the USVI - so I am not sure if the numbers are QC'd (checked for accuracy) - and could be input errors - there appear to be a few of these


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## ekinggill

*New WSJ Owner & New to TUG*

My wife and I just bought a 1BR, wk 32 VGV.  We'd been to the resort twice on SPG points and loved it.  Saw the timeshare dog and pony both times but the pricing was ridiculous.

When we came home I found the unit we bought on sellmytimesharenow.com.  Owner was asking $9500.  Made an offer through a licensed real estate agent of $7500.  It was accepted the same day.  I instantly felt like I left money on the table when it was accepted so quickly, but I am happy knowing I paid about 1/3 of what the resort was trying to sell it to me for.

We are very appreciative of all of the great info you guys are sharing.  This is a great website.


----------



## tomandrobin

ekinggill said:


> My wife and I just bought a 1BR, wk 32 VGV.  We'd been to the resort twice on SPG points and loved it.  Saw the timeshare dog and pony both times but the pricing was ridiculous.
> 
> When we came home I found the unit we bought on sellmytimesharenow.com.  Owner was asking $9500.  Made an offer through a licensed real estate agent of $7500.  It was accepted the same day.  I instantly felt like I left money on the table when it was accepted so quickly, but I am happy knowing I paid about 1/3 of what the resort was trying to sell it to me for.
> 
> We are very appreciative of all of the great info you guys are sharing.  This is a great website.



Congrats on your "smart" purchase! 

We won't be back to WSJ until 2012 and my wife is really missing the resort and island.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Congratulations of your purchase*



ekinggill said:


> My wife and I just bought a 1BR, wk 32 VGV.  We'd been to the resort twice on SPG points and loved it.  Saw the timeshare dog and pony both times but the pricing was ridiculous.
> 
> When we came home I found the unit we bought on sellmytimesharenow.com.  Owner was asking $9500.  Made an offer through a licensed real estate agent of $7500.  It was accepted the same day.  I instantly felt like I left money on the table when it was accepted so quickly, but I am happy knowing I paid about 1/3 of what the resort was trying to sell it to me for.
> 
> We are very appreciative of all of the great info you guys are sharing.  This is a great website.



Congrats on your purchase for 1/3 the price.  When you get a chance, check out my posting #570 to save money on the ferry when you come back.


----------



## OCsun

David,

Thanks for posting the sales data, you are always providing us with great information!    Pam


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## ekinggill

GeneNWendy said:


> Congrats on your purchase for 1/3 the price.  When you get a chance, check out my posting #570 to save money on the ferry when you come back.



Thanks GeneNWendy.  Based upon your posts, I plan to rent with Avis.

We also plan to fly into San Juan on Friday night, then catch the first American Eagle flight to STT on Saturday morning.  This will let us get the rental, food and beverage shop, and still be at the resort well before check-in.  We will be sacrificing a little sleep, but that can be easily made up pool-side.


----------



## jerseygirl

Update on tax situation (with thanks to numismatist who posted the link on the Marriott board):

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/judge-lifts-freeze-on-v-i-property-taxes-1.1093906

Pertinent info for phase one owners (BV has been collecting an estimated tax but Hillside owners get billed separately):


The 1998 property values and tax rates shall continue for the 2007, 2008, 2009 tax years.

Because the government did not issue any tax bills at all for four years, taxpayers will receive two years' worth of bills each year until the bills are current. The 2010 tax bill will not be issued until 2012.

It does not change the amount for the 2006 bills, which were issued last year using the 1998 values and rates. The 2006 bills are currently past due and will begin to accrue interest and penalties after Feb. 16.

The 2007 tax bills will be issued in February, using the 1998 property values and tax rate. 

The 2008 bills will be issued this summer and also will be at the 1998 level. 

The 2009 bill (at the 1998 level) and 2010 bill (at the new tax rate) will be sent out in 2012.

Following these statements, one can surmise that the TOTAL property taxes on the island will be increasing ~78%:

_Dawson said the territory's debt ceiling is linked directly to the territory's property values. The Virgin Islands can float General Obligation bonds that are backed by anticipated tax revenues, but the territory can only borrow 10 percent of the total real property value in the territory.

Under the 1998 assessments, the total value of property is $9 billion, and the territory's debt ceiling is $900 million. The Virgin Islands' General Obligation debt currently is at about $800 million, Dawson said. Once the new assessments are in place, the debt ceiling could be raised to about $1.6 billion._

However, that does not mean there will be an across-the-board increase of 78%!  And, there is now a working appeal process --- so time to start saving copies of EBAY resale values just in case they try to assess at the developer prices!


----------



## DavidnRobin

thanks for the info - one thing I was curious about is why the tax collected for BV phase is so low compared to VG phase? anyone know?

iirc, our 1998 tax - 2Bd TH VG phase is ~$130

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/judge-lifts-freeze-on-v-i-property-taxes-1.1093906


----------



## klatkiew

*WSJ - 2006 Taxes?*

I was told at the owners meeting in early Jan that 2006 taxes had finally been sent out to WSJ owners.   I have not received the 06' tax bills for either of my units so before i start calling Starwood - can any WSJ owners tell me what's going on?

I understand the remainder of the taxes are expected to be billed about every 6 months until they catch up.

Thanks!


----------



## DeniseM

There is a big thread about this on the Marriott Board.


----------



## DavidnRobin

ahem - this is discussed in our own WSJ thread - 2006 taxes are past due - get your property info - and contact WSJ Tax collection office (be patient - you are dealing with island folk...) and find out how to pay your 2006 taxes ASAP (and get your address updated) - interest on these monies started in Oct10.  I understand your pain of not being aware (mistakes for this could be on multiple levels), but the Owner is responsible to know about the property taxes.  WSJ did send out notice - and the USVI sent out bills.

One of my bills went to the previous owner - luckily they forwarded to me, but I was aware already that they were due because I follow this topic and report in the WSJ thread.

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/judge-lifts-freeze-on-v-i-property-taxes-1.1093906


----------



## DeniseM

Oh, yeah, yeah....that's what I meant - see the Starwood WSJ master thread....  Dave has some great insight to this situation...  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## DavidnRobin

*VINP update from STJ Tradewinds*

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...ng-shortfalls&catid=555:201101-news&Itemid=38


----------



## klatkiew

Couldn't get an answer from Starwood on where my 2006 tax bill was so i called the USVI tax dept directly.   My 2006 taxes are showing completely paid.   mystery.  I never received a bill and I definitely didn't make any payments.  ( 3 bedroom pool villa was $408.75 )

She also told me the 2007 bills were going out in early February - fyi.


----------



## DavidnRobin

klatkiew said:


> Couldn't get an answer from Starwood on where my 2006 tax bill was so i called the USVI tax dept directly.   My 2006 taxes are showing completely paid.   mystery.  I never received a bill and I definitely didn't make any payments.  ( 3 bedroom pool villa was $408.75 )
> 
> She also told me the 2007 bills were going out in early February - fyi.



If this is truly the case - knowing a bit of how things work (or don't work...) in the USVI - my worries would that payment was intended for another week/villa that got mistakenly credited to your account.

I would call them back and politely (and clearly) state that you did not pay these taxes - that you have no record of paying it.  Therefore, there must be a mistake - and that you are worried that once the mistake is found - you will be on the hook for penalities.

Carefeul using logic with them - it can annoy them...

Or... you can blow it off - and wait to fight that battle if/when it arises.

Did you request an address check of your property tax?  If it is Virgin Grand villas address (in STJ) - get them to change it to your address (there is a place on the tax bill for this.  My week 23 was wrong in the USVI database.  I attempted to correct - I guess I will find out in Feb.  My bet is that that the previous owners will get the bill.

Also - is this a resale? If so, the bill may have gone to the previous owners and they paid because it was their usage year (?).


----------



## klatkiew

It wasn't a resale.   I called back and had them double check.   She said it was paid by Starwood directly.   hhhmmm.


----------



## DavidnRobin

klatkiew said:


> It wasn't a resale.   I called back and had them double check.   She said it was paid by Starwood directly.   hhhmmm.



[deleted - I see that you own VG phase...]

If WSJ-VG HOA actually did pay (strange) - I would attempt to get to the bottom of it.  You could try and email Phil or Bob (WSJ-VG HOA BOD members) - or the WSJ-VG HOA Treasurer and ask.  WSJ-VG owners are responsible for their property tax bills (we paid our 2006 bill in Sept 2010) - unless you have special caveat for your ownership that they paid for you - and then billed you???? weird...


----------



## NerdAlert

Klat, may be a dumb question, but did you have title to your weeks in 2006? If not, Starwood was probably responsible for the taxes. Happened to us soon after we bought (in 2005) but never got the usage (until 2006), got a nice tax bill (2005) so I kindly mailed it to Starwood. They paid it. Bam.


----------



## klatkiew

We did own that unit in 2006 (puchased from developer in 2002) however, we switched units in January 2007 as part of a deal we made with our additional purchase in 2007.  In other words - in 2006 we owned week 2/unit 4115 and in 2007 we owned week 2/4413 instead of 4115.  So Starwood got unit 4115 back in early 2007.

I'm thinking i'll call back tomorrow and see if unit 4413 is paid for 2006 just to make sure i covered everything.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I think you are getting to the crux of the issue (more info is always better) - looks like WSJ/SVO likely paid the taxes for 2006.  sweet...


----------



## DavidnRobin

If you have a USVI property tax bill - the assessed value (1998) is listed on the bill. 
The tax bill has assessed land and assessed improvement (= assessed total) on the tax bill.  The assessed land is zero - so the assessment is all improvment and you are taxed on that rate.

I imagine if the assessed improvement is more than current resale values (listed with Assessors office) - you could appeal when they hike up the taxes for 2010 - due after 2007-2009 tax bills that is taxed at the 1998 rate.


----------



## scooter

Maybe I missed it, but is there a map of the resort showing the building/unit numbers?  We're thinking  of buying in the secondary market. Anyone know if 3321 is oceanview? Thanks!


----------



## DavidnRobin

There is a map in Resources stickie at top of page - it won't help with the OV question - but 3321 (1 Bd, upper floor of B33) does have an OV.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Property Tax Update (from STJ Tradewinds)*

*Judge Gomez Tosses Out V.I. Unity Day Group’s Property Tax Law Suit      * 
Written by Jaime Elliott     
Monday, 07 February 2011 06:00  

The V.I. Unity Day Group will not have its day in court on Monday, February 7, just as members had feared.

District Judge Curtis Gomez threw out the group’s lawsuit against the V.I. government on Monday, January 31. Unity Day Group members filed the suit in April 2008 on grounds that property revaluations conducted on the island were based on flawed data.

In his opinion, Gomez ruled that future tax bills might not be based on that data since the V.I. Code stipulates that all properties must be assessed every five years and the data in question began being collected six years ago.

“Given the assessment scheme set forth in the Code, it is not pre-ordained that the plaintiffs will receive tax bills using the BearingPoint assessment system that is challenged in their complaint,” Gomez wrote in his opinion, as quoted in the V.I. Daily News.

While the government is in a new revaluation cycle, however, the data BearingPoint collected — which the V.I. Unity Day Group alleges is seriously flawed — will be the base of future revaluations, according to the group’s attorney James Derr.

“I think the judge’s error is in confusing the collection of the data and the creation of the database with the analysis of the data,” said Derr.

Although Gomez ruled that the group’s case was moot because BearingPoint’s data is not likely to be used for the required revaluations in the future without being altered, Derr maintained that the data needs to be thrown out.

“Gomez’s opinion states there is no likelihood of BearingPoint’s data being used in the new revaluation cycle, but he’s wrong because the data collected is still in the database,” said Derr. “The Tax Assessor has stated that she intends to use that data the next time she issues tax bills at the new rates.”

“The contract between BearingPoint and the government about cyclical reinspection said 10 percent of all existing properties per year should be revisited and corrected,” Derr said. “Using the 2006 base year, that means some of that data, which we say is wrong, could be used as late as 2016.”

Unity Day Group planned to file a motion for reconsideration requesting Gomez to amend his ruling and allow the case to go forward on the basis of that flawed data, Derr explained.

“The argument we’ll make is that part of the case should be allowed to go forward and we should be allowed to challenge the accuracy of the data that was collected,” he said.

“We will be pointing out that there are two things — the data itself and then what you do with that data,” said Derr. “What you do with that data is moot now, but we still contend that the government should not be allowed to use that underlying data.”

The Unity Day Group had 14 days from January 31 to file the motion for reconsideration. Once filed, Gomez will rule whether to amend his opinion or deny the motion. If the motion is denied, Derr planned to file an appeal with the 3rd Circuit, he explained.

Controversy over property taxes in the Virgin Islands has been swirling since 2000, when a group of property owners filed suit against the government alleging the system it was using was unfair.

Following several years of inaction, the court issued an injunction freezing property taxes at 1998 rates, determined to be the last year tax rates were accurate.

The court also required the government to conduct a territory-wide property revaluation and create a viable Board of Tax Review.

The government contracted BearingPoint, which began revaluating properties across the Virgin Islands in June 2004. BearingPoint wrapped up the revaluations in 2008, but many property owners on St. John found errors in those revaluations, which prompted the Unity Day Group’s lawsuit.

In January, Gomez lifted the injunction ruling that the Board of Tax Review was functioning properly and the mandated revaluations were complete. V.I. Unity Day Group members, however, did not settle with the government and instead walked out of mediation.

“Unity Day Group left mediation because the government would not deal with the fact that the data itself is bad and Bearing Point’s ways and methods did not work,” Unity Day Group Property Tax Committee member Pam Gaffin previously told St. John Tradewinds. “We want to say that what Bearing Point did on St. John was incorrect. The results did not meet standards and we need to start from scratch.”

Unity Day Group members pointed to the hundreds of complaints St. John property owners had with their revaluations.

“Out of 1,700 houses, there were 700 informal appeals filed on St. John saying something was wrong with their assessments,” Gaffin said.

Under Gomez’s ruling, the government will issue 2007 tax bills, at the 1998 level, in February. The 2008 bills, also at the 1998 rate, will be issued this summer.

The 2009 bills, the last bills which will reflect the 1998 rates, and 2010 bills, which will reflect newly assessed rates, will both be issued in 2012.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Question for owners at other resorts than St. John*

Hi all,

I'm trying to determine who the auditors are of the various Starwood timeshare resorts.  I know that the auditors for Virgin Grand Villas are: *MYERS, BRETTHOLTZ & COMPANY, PA.*  Their address is: *12671 Whitehall Drive Fort Myers, Florida 33907-3626*  I know that they also audit Scottsdale Sonoran Villas.  If they audit all of the Westin Timeshare villas, something very fishy might be taking place.

Gene


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Starwood Messing With VGV owners on mang't fees*

Please check out the link below:

http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/blog/?p=148

Gene


----------



## Fredm

GeneNWendy said:


> Please check out the link below:
> 
> http://stjohnvirgingrandvillaowners.com/blog/?p=148
> 
> Gene



Starwood takes 10% off the top. 
It is taken on everything. Reserves, taxes, etc.
So, if property taxes increase the management fees increase.
This is not specific to St. John. Nor is it peculiar to Starwood.

Fair? That's another matter. But, all the hospitality company OM contracts are much the same in this regard.


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Not accurate*



Fredm said:


> Starwood takes 10% off the top.
> It is taken on everything. Reserves, taxes, etc.
> So, if property taxes increase the management fees increase.
> This is not specific to St. John. Nor is it peculiar to Starwood.
> 
> Fair? That's another matter. But, all the hospitality company OM contracts are much the same in this regard.



As I explained in detail, in 2008, they did *not* take 10% off of the total.  They backed out the million in reserves before taking it.  However, they did not back it out in 2009 and probably not in 2010 (still awaiting the financials) when the reserves were in the millions because of the refurbishments.  Additionally, Starwood does not take 10% off of the property tax.  The taxes for our individual weeks get billed to us directly from the USVI Tax Assessor's office.  They might give the invoices to Starwood to mail to us (another waste on Starwood's part), but that has nothing to do with financials.


----------



## Fredm

GeneNWendy said:


> As I explained in detail, in 2008, they did *not* take 10% off of the total.  They backed out the million in reserves before taking it.  However, they did not back it out in 2009 and probably not in 2010 (still awaiting the financials) when the reserves were in the millions because of the refurbishments.  Additionally, Starwood does not take 10% off of the property tax.  The taxes for our individual weeks get billed to us directly from the USVI Tax Assessor's office.  They might give the invoices to Starwood to mail to us (another waste on Starwood's part), but that has nothing to do with financials.



If property taxes are not included in the m/f's then they do not take the 10% of the property taxes.
They take 10% of whatever is included in the m/f's.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Gene - thanks for posting your link here - as many WSJ Owners (and others) read this thread - as observed by the # of views (>46000, #1 thread on SVO TUG).  Perhaps I am slow (or too busy), but the letter is difficult for me to follow.  However, why don't you email Bob and/or Phil and ask the question?


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Notified both Bob and Phil*

Dave,

I am in the process of e-mailing everyone in our voluntary list that link.  I can't do it all at once, because GMail only lets me send out one given e-mail to 500 recipients in any 24-hour period.  I guess that's their way of preventing SPAM from going out.

In any case, I did in fact e-mail both Bob and Phil.

Regards,
Gene


----------



## GeneNWendy

*Do the math*



Fredm said:


> If property taxes are not included in the m/f's then they do not take the 10% of the property taxes.
> They take 10% of whatever is included in the m/f's.



You are clearly not looking at the 2008 column.  In 2008, they *did not* take 10% of the approx $1 million in reserves.  Do the math!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

FredM is only trying to give advice and perspective - he is a very knowledgable TUG poster and I always try and read his posts (even on subjects that I am not involved in), and always appreciate his opinion/perspective although sometimes different than mine.

Re: SVO fees - it will be interesting to see the response from the WSJ-VG HOA BODs.  I do think the comparison to ENRON/AA is a bit dramatic as a comparative, but understand your point.  Clear transparency between the HOA BOD and Owners has always been my objective (windmill tilting). Hopefully. Bob and Phil will help with your question and my objective.


----------



## ocdb8r

GeneNWendy said:


> You are clearly not looking at the 2008 column.  In 2008, they *did not* take 10% of the approx $1 million in reserves.  Do the math!!



Gene, at this point it's only your speculation that it is the "reserves" that they are backing out from their fee...and given the numbers don't come out exact, I think getting full transparency is the key to being sure.

Just to throw a wrench in your line of thinking, what if I said it is actually the "utilities" that they are backing out as these are non-management related costs, not covered by their contract.  In that case, the numbers actually come out much closer than if they were backing out the "reserves".

Further, even if you are correct and they backed out the reserves in 2008, that doesn't mean they weren't entitled to collect on the reserves under the management contract.  Maybe they did it as a form of developer subsidy...there could be any number of crazy reasons.  The bottom line is that what they actually do or do not doesn't necessarily reflect what they are legally allowed to do pursuant to the management contract.  The REAL transparency would be to see what they are entitled to collect on in that contract....and I fear you may be disappointed to find that they are legally allowed to collect on reserves (as they are really just a form of "catch up" maintenance fee).


----------



## Fredm

DavidnRobin said:


> FredM is only trying to give advice and perspective - he is a very knowledgable TUG poster and I always try and read his posts (even on subjects that I am not involved in), and always appreciate his opinion/perspective although sometimes different than mine.
> 
> Re: SVO fees - it will be interesting to see the response from the WSJ-VG HOA BODs.  I do think the comparison to ENRON/AA is a bit dramatic as a comparative, but understand your point.  Clear transparency between the HOA BOD and Owners has always been my objective (windmill tilting). Hopefully. Bob and Phil will help with your question and my objective.



Thank you, David.

IIRC, Starwood subsidized the HOA in the amount of  ~$892,000 (diluted to ~$802,000) in 2008 (and almost $2 mm in 2007). Perhaps this gift accounts for the difference Gene is concerned about?

Note to Gene:

Asking the HOA for clarification is constructive.
Doing so before stating that "something very fishy might be taking place" with the auditors, or Starwood is messing with management fees, would have been even more constructive. 
Ready-Fire-Aim.

I completely understand that a management fee taken "off the top" may not be "fair", but it is allowed. It has been 10%. Starwood can take it to 15% if they choose to. So say the docs. It seems to me that if Starwood wanted to generate more revenue from WSJ owners they would not cook the books, or engage crooked auditors. They would just legally increase the management fee.


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## GeneNWendy

Fredm said:


> Thank you, David.
> 
> IIRC, Starwood subsidized the HOA in the amount of  ~$892,000 (diluted to ~$802,000) in 2008 (and almost $2 mm in 2007). Perhaps this gift accounts for the difference Gene is concerned about?
> 
> Note to Gene:
> 
> Asking the HOA for clarification is constructive.
> Doing so before stating that "something very fishy might be taking place" with the auditors, or Starwood is messing with management fees, would have been even more constructive.
> Ready-Fire-Aim.
> 
> I completely understand that a management fee taken "off the top" may not be "fair", but it is allowed. It has been 10%. Starwood can take it to 15% if they choose to. So say the docs. It seems to me that if Starwood wanted to generate more revenue from WSJ owners they would not cook the books, or engage crooked auditors. They would just legally increase the management fee.



For your information, I did contact the Board members and the outside accountants prior to to sending out my e-mail.  I do not appreciate you suggesting how it might have been more constructive for me to handle things differently.  There's a saying that hindsight is always 20/20.  I will give you one thing.  Perhaps it was a gift that in prior years Starwood did not impose the full 10% management fee.

This will be my last posting on here.  I recently sold my second week at Virgin Grand Villas and the fees no longer concern me.  I can tell you this.  A friend of mine who is an owner was at the owner/management meeting a few weeks ago.  The resort managers presented information indicating that operating expenses for VGV are estimated to be 3 times the budgeted amount in 2016 than they are for 2011.  They could not explain why.  They deferred that question to Corporate.  I don't care if the management fee is 5% or 2% for that matter.  As long as it's a percentage of the total expenses, Starwood has no incentive to lower maintenance fees and never will while they control the HOA.

One last thing, for the individual who suggested that you could back out utilities, that is an operating expense.  Reserves is not an operating expense as shown on the 2nd column from the left on the expense sheet I previously submitted.  It would make logical sense to back out reserves, if anything were to come out, but as Fredm indicated, it's probably a gift anyway.

Good luck with Starwood.  May you have many years of pleasure there.  Hopefully, they won't bankrupt you in the process.  As beautiful as St John is, I would never pay $12K in maintenance for one week in a place that I technically own.  You think I'm crazy suggesting that.  Wait until 2016 and do nothing before then, that's how much a 2 bedroom premium or a 3 bedroom pool villa is going to cost.


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## DavidnRobin

3x more in 2016 than 2011!!!??? - that would put my MFs at ~$8400 per week - sorry, I am just not buying it... (no offense...)
side bet?

Take care Gene - and good luck to you.


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ-VG Report from Owner-Elected Representatives*

^^^^speaking of which^^^^ my comments are in *[bold-italics]*

*Dear Fellow Owners at Virgin Grand Villas: *
We recently participated as your owner-elected representatives in another meeting of the Board of Directors of the owners’ association for Virgin Grand Villas. We have lots of good news to report: 

Construction work on the major refurbishments to the exteriors of the buildings has begun and is on schedule. We toured the work being done on Building 34, the first to be renovated. We think that owners will be very pleased. Insulation is being added which will keep the upper units cooler. New windows and doors will not only save on energy costs but will also keep out a lot of the outdoor sound, such as the noise of the golf carts. The entry doorways will be frosted glass, providing total privacy while letting in light and freeing you from fiddling with blinds. New locks will solve the occasional inconvenience when your locks jammed from having water and sand in them. The enhancements to the cooling system and the solar panel pilot project will reduce our electricity cost significantly, and the new stucco siding and steel roofs will make the property seem brand new.
*[Excellent - as I wrote in last years' trip resport - we hate the front door and blinds -and wondered why they were not updated - now we know]*

Recycling for metal cans is now already in place, with the bins being emptied daily, and the garbage cans with open tops are being replaced by cans with animal-proof lids. 
*[Excellent - well needed]*

The freecycle shed is a reality. It is located near the pool villas, and just off the corner of the road on the way up the hill. But it is underused at present; we need to build up the inventory of items that owners leave for the use of other owners. So if you have purchased beach chairs, snorkel equipment, children’s beach toys, books, or other non-food items that you aren’t taking home, please leave them in the shed for other owners to use. And when you arrive for your use week, please feel free to use items that have been left in the shed. 
*[Excellent idea - we hate leaving stuff behind to be thrown away - now if they could start a food bank system like WKORV/N]*

Although the storms of last fall interfered with some owners’ use of the resort, you would now have to look hard to see that the resort had even been affected. Two major awnings at the hotel are still gone, and replacements are being fabricated; some of the eroded beach sand is still being replaced; and new, smaller trees have been planted to replace large ones that fell. Other than that, the resort is quite spiffy; and there is a silver lining to the storm damage: the big pool and the tennis courts have been resurfaced. (At an owners’ reception that we attended the day before our Board meeting, we heard only satisfaction for the resort’s appearance and praise for the responsiveness of its staff.)
*[Excellent - maybe we will get down there this year ]*

Management (Starwood Vacation Ownership) is actively working on setting up an online posting board on which we can list weeks that we have for trade, weeks that we want someone to trade to us, weeks that we want to rent to others or are seeking to rent, and weeks that we would like to sell. We think this will make it much easier for us to make optimal use of our weeks. 
*[Excellent - but not sure if it will be used - we shall see...]*

Management is also taking the owners’ voluntary directory to a new level by putting the registration process online for owners who want to participate in it. The next opportunity to be listed in the directory will be some time in April, and you will receive an invitation by email to enter your contact information and the units you own by filling in an online form. No more errors due to illegible handwriting! (Management would like to reissue the directory every six months, but because owners change addresses and email accounts frequently, and because units are often bought or sold, you will have to electronically update the form twice a year to remain in the directory. While this may be a minor inconvenience, there seems no better way to have an up-to-date directory.) 
*[Excellent - I agree that up-dates should be made, but concerneed that people will drop off if asked to update over-n-over since 2x per year goes by fast]*

*Dealing with defaults *
A number of accounts – representing less than 5% of the total accounts billed for 2010 -- are still behind on the maintenance payments owed to the homeowners association. The association is about to begin foreclosure on delinquent accounts with the intent to get new dues-paying owners into the association. This can be a time-consuming and costly process on St. John; however, $600,000 has been budgeted to use this year for this purpose. For owners who are in arrears and want to avoid the hassle (and reduced credit rating) associated with foreclosure, there is still time to take action, such as paying their arrearage or turning their deed, free of any mortgage, over to the owners association in lieu of foreclosure (in which case any maintenance arrears will be canceled). We hope that most owners who are in arrears will be able to find a way to get current with their payments so that they can continue to enjoy the pleasures of St. John. 
*[Excellent - about time for action and transparency to this important issue]*

*Property tax bills* 
We learned that the Virgin Islands may send out the 2007 property tax bills in the near future, with later years to follow at a measured pace, and that all bills through 2009 are expected to be based on the 1998 assessed value. 
*[anyone reading this thread knows this already]*


*Hurricane insurance *
We have had generally positive feedback from owners to our suggestion that we should gradually build up a reserve that would be dedicated to paying the deductible portion of the hurricane insurance policy (currently about 1.5 million dollars, and rising as the property value increases). We have not yet added anything to the budget for this purpose, but we still plan to discuss as a Board, next fall, the establishment of a hurricane reserve fund. Last fall’s storms were a warning that a major hurricane – bigger than 2010’s storms – could still do significant damage to our buildings. Our choices are either to hedge now by starting a reserve fund, or face the prospect of a sudden, unanticipated need for a large special assessment if there is a devastating hurricane. 
*[Need to ask if this includes Tropical Storms as major damage come from this more often - like last year]*


*Weeks not used by owners in arrears, or weeks owned by the association *
Lastly, we are in active discussion with management concerning the best way for the homeowners association to capture revenue relating to weeks for which owners have been denied use because of non-payment of maintenance fees (or, in the future, because the owners association temporarily owns foreclosed units pending their disposition). Up until now most of these units had been made available to the Starwood Vacation Network, meaning that all Starwood Vacation Network owners (including Virgin Grand) were able to use them for StarOptions. As a result, while individual owners of Virgin Grand may have benefited from using StarOptions to stay at their home resort, the owners association derived no revenue from locked out units. 
*[This has an issue of concern to me - why is the HOA not compensated for SVN usage of these VOIs?]*


At our meeting, members of the Board discussed this issue and we all agree that our objective in dealing with these units is to maximize revenue for the owners association, which would help to reduce our maintenance fees. For 2011, a large majority of these weeks have been set aside for rental availability rather than made available to the Network (of course there can be no assurance how many unit weeks can be rented, or on what terms). We are working with management to continue to explore a number of options for renting these weeks so that we can determine the alternative that would generate the greatest revenue for the association. We will advise you of our progress in dealing with this important issue. 
*[I hope this is resolved]*


All our best, 
Philip G. Schrag 
phil.schrag@gmail.com

Bob Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com

*[What! - no mention that 2016 MFs will be 3x that of 2011!!!]*   - sorry couldn't resist...


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## DavidnRobin

Regarding letter above - this is exactly why I suppported Phil and Bob as Owner Members for the WSJ-VG HOA BODs - no SVO resort has come close to this much transparency - still need for more improvement - and I think they will agree - but what a refreshing start.
Our so-called Owners Revolt has caused change.

Thanks Phil and Bob (and will send a personal email as a follow-up) - I wanted to let you know that while you may feel unappreciated since people do not generally send emails/letters when they are happy - there are many silent Owners who do appreciate your uncompenstated work in helping our resort be the 1st class vacation retreat it deserves to be.

I think others as well should send them emails expressing their thoughts and suggestions and even criticisms/concerns (just make sure they are constructive...please)


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## GeneNWendy

*No David*

*[What! - no mention that 2016 MFs will be 3x that of 2011!!!]*   - sorry couldn't resist...[/QUOTE]

That's right David, no mention that 2016 MFs will be 3x that of 2011!!  HaHaHa.  Also, no mention that Bob and Phil requested a new auditing firm, but they were outvoted by the three Starwood employees on the Board.  They will always be outvoted unless the owners can gain control.   They have their way of altering the facts by omitting these things.  *Sorry I just couldn't resist*


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## DavidnRobin

and I thought you signed off...   btw, everything I post is IMO
(do I need to add this to my sig?)

You aims are different than mine - I am quite aware...

You already are aware that Owners can't gain control of the BOD unless SVO gave up all of their VOIs at WSJ-VG - ain't going to happen. As a card player - I am the type to deal with the hand I am dealt - look at my EV (and then try to improve) - but that is me... your choice was to sell - mine is to enjoy WSJ while I can... (before the lionfish and sea warming destroy the reefs...)

please come on back in 2016 - and if I still own (and here) - and if my base MFs are >$8400 - I will ship you $100,  and you can tell me that you told me so...

take care.


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## ekinggill

GeneNWendy said:


> I know that the auditors for Virgin Grand Villas are: *MYERS, BRETTHOLTZ & COMPANY, PA.*  Their address is: *12671 Whitehall Drive Fort Myers, Florida 33907-3626*  I know that they also audit Scottsdale Sonoran Villas.  If they audit all of the Westin Timeshare villas, something very fishy might be taking place.



I'm curious about what might be fishy?


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## TimW1

ekinggill said:


> I'm curious about what might be fishy?



I believe that all corporations on the stock market in practice get new independent auditing firms to show transparency and faith to their shareholders.  So, if Starwood has a ongoing relationship with one firm, it could bring up some red flags to their shareholders on their ongoing accounting practices.

Anyone else know why the board would be reluctant in switching an independent firm?


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## DavidnRobin

Not sure if Gene will respond, but read Gene's post - the concern is that there is some type of shady accounting process going on - since this accounding firm does other SVO resorts audits (thus the ENRON/AA reference...) - if I understand correctly.

I am not sure of the value of Bob/Phil communicating every aspect of BOD meetings (like request to change audit firms that was reportedly rejected by SVO controlled board) as we do not know all aspects of the decision - or other decisions that do not add value to Owners knowledge base.

I personally (obviously) like the change that is occurring at WSJ-VG - especially compared to a year+ ago - and Bob/Phil have my support.  We have already had a few communications from the WSJ-VG HOA that were 1000x more comprehensive that the prior 'Owner' BOD members which was close to zilch in real info.

btw, SVO controls all {most that I am aware of...} HOA boards at SVO resorts.  Everyone who owns a SVO VOI (or is considering buying SVO) should be aware of this - this is not uncommon and allows SVO to maintain decision control in the best interest of Starwood (HOT) - which some would argue is better than the alternative.

I personally am not prone to conspiracy theories - but I am also concerned about the fox guading the henhouse - thus the push to get better communication and transparency from Owner-friendly BOD members.  Some obviously do not think Bob/Phil are doing their job - I strongly disagree - but to each their own (within reason).


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## jerseygirl

David - there are some owner controlled boards but the ones I know of pre-date SVN (but were later absorbed into SVN).  Harborside has two BODs for each phase, similar to WKORV I believe (where one in master specific and one is phase specific).  I noticed that at least one appeared to now be owner controlled (will see if I can find details when I get home).  I say "appears" because the Atlantis developer had a representative in the past so essentially three insiders and two owners. Again, will look for details but just wanted to clarify that some of the older resorts definitely have owner controlled BODs.


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## DavidnRobin

ok-ok - most boards - certainly the ones I own (WKORV, WPORV, WKV, WSJ)... but that was not my point... certainly they maintain control somehow since there are millions at stake and they put their shareholders (HOT) ahead of Owners
{i was going to make a jarta reference here... but refrained  }


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## jerseygirl

100% agree with you on the maintain control side of things. For the most part, they are the sole supplier of information - even to those resorts that are fortunate enough to have independent boards.


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## gregb

As to having a single firm audit the books of all of the resorts, this only seems to make sense to me.  It takes time (and therefore money) for the auditors to understand how the resorts and SVO operate and keep their books.  That cost can be spread over all the resorts if the same auditor does the books for all the resorts.  

As long as the auditing firm is honest and above board, then having one firm do all the resorts should not be a problem.  If there is any question, it might be better asked as, "Is there any conflict of interest or shared interest between Starwood/SVO and the auditing firm?".  If the answer is no, then I don't see how one reputable auditing firm is better/worst than another.

And remember, an auditor only sees the numbers that the company provides them.  So if Starwood/SVO provides incorrect data, it doesn't matter who does the auditing.

Greg


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## jarta

"{i was going to make a jarta reference here... but refrained  }"

lol!  The question is whether the accounting firm is experienced, competent and honest.

The firm obviously qualifies under the first 2 criteria.  And, there is no evidence of dishonesty.  So, where's the dead fish?  

Or, is it just a WSJ owner who tried to control 2 independent board members who got elected and was rebuffed because their duty after being elected is to all WSJ owners and not just 2 destructive complainers?   ...   eom


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## DavidnRobin

jarta - you know I am kidding... it was intended for JG who knows my evil intentions all to well...  

I 100% agree with you (whoever thought I would ever type that...!  )

Careful - you might be part of a mass email to WSJ Owners disparaging you and your position as a Bob/Phil hugger... :hysterical: :ignore:
{luckily I am assured that most are smart enough to see through the BS...}
743rd post in this thread, and >47000 views of reasonable diatribe and growing - that must really irk them...


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## ctbt

*Incorrect information about WSJ future maintenance fees*



GeneNWendy said:


> For your information, I did contact the Board members and the outside accountants prior to to sending out my e-mail.  I do not appreciate you suggesting how it might have been more constructive for me to handle things differently.  There's a saying that hindsight is always 20/20.  I will give you one thing.  Perhaps it was a gift that in prior years Starwood did not impose the full 10% management fee.
> 
> This will be my last posting on here.  I recently sold my second week at Virgin Grand Villas and the fees no longer concern me.  I can tell you this.  A friend of mine who is an owner was at the owner/management meeting a few weeks ago.  The resort managers presented information indicating that operating expenses for VGV are estimated to be 3 times the budgeted amount in 2016 than they are for 2011.  They could not explain why.  They deferred that question to Corporate.  I don't care if the management fee is 5% or 2% for that matter.  As long as it's a percentage of the total expenses, Starwood has no incentive to lower maintenance fees and never will while they control the HOA.
> 
> One last thing, for the individual who suggested that you could back out utilities, that is an operating expense.  Reserves is not an operating expense as shown on the 2nd column from the left on the expense sheet I previously submitted.  It would make logical sense to back out reserves, if anything were to come out, but as Fredm indicated, it's probably a gift anyway.
> 
> Good luck with Starwood.  May you have many years of pleasure there.  Hopefully, they won't bankrupt you in the process.  As beautiful as St John is, I would never pay $12K in maintenance for one week in a place that I technically own.  You think I'm crazy suggesting that.  Wait until 2016 and do nothing before then, that's how much a 2 bedroom premium or a 3 bedroom pool villa is going to cost.



I have refrained from posting about WSJ since becoming an elected member of the Board of Directors at Virgin Grand Villas, because my responsibility runs to all VGV owners, not just TUG members.  But I have been sent many emails in response to the posting that suggests that maintenance fees will go up by 300% by 2016, so I would like to spike those rumors.  The fact of the matter is that fees are determined almost entirely by operating expenses for the previous year (and estimates of how if at all they will change in the coming year) and by what the Board decides to lay aside for reserves.  There is no way that the Board could estimate now what operating expenses will be by 2016; in fact, they have been decreasing in recent years, and they may continue to decrease at least somewhat because of the better insulation that results from the refurbishment (and therefore lower energy costs) and the solar cells that we are gradually installing.  The Board has been budgeting prudently for reserves to avoid another surprising increase like the one for 2008-11, but speaking personally, I don't see any way in which our budgeting for reserves, even if we add something to cover the deductible in the event of a catastrophic hurricane, will triple the maintenance fees.  I think this misunderstanding arose because what will increase a lot by 2016 is the amount in the CUMULATIVE reserve fund, as that fund will be nearly depleted at the end of 2011 as a result of the current refurbishment.  So of course it will go up by a lot, from near zero, and that's as it should be, because we will be adding a little to reserves each year.  This CUMULATIVE reserve is money in the bank, so to speak; it is not a maintenance fee, although a small part of the maintenance fee each year will contribute to the reserve.  Philip Schrag


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## GeneNWendy

*A few things to comment on*

Firstly, David I want to apologize to you publicly.  Forwarding your analysis of Bob and Phil's letter to 300 owners on our list (it was only 300, not all of them) was dumb, immature, and a million other adjectives that I can't post on here.  I have no doubt that you are a great individual with a lot of character.  

Secondly, at the owner/manager meeting that is held every Monday at the Westin near the Mango Deli, the hotel GM gave a presentation of what revenues and operating expenses were projected to be over the next 10 years.  I was mistaken.  Operating expenses were supposedly going to be 3 times the amount of 2010's expenses by 2019, not 2016.  My mistake.  This doesn't necessarily mean maintenance fees would triple by then.  I was only told this information second-handedly, but I believe there is documentation that was handed out at the meeting to this effect.  When I get my hands on it, I will share it with all of you.  Meanwhile, I suggest that any of you reading this who plan to go to the Westin in the near future make a point of attending that meeting.  It's usually at 3:00 on Monday.  When checking in, one should inquire at the front desk the exact time and location.  If any of your information contradicts what I said, I'd be interested to know about it. I assume that this information was derived from a source other than the HOA, who apparently makes up the budget.

Finally, I want to share a couple things regarding the Board of directors.  Bob and Phil wouldn't be there if it weren't for me.  They may dislike me with a passion, but I think they will admit that it was my largely my hard work prior to the election that got them into their spots.  Back in September, 2009 I was given a list of 40 owners and told that we couldn't get any names of owners because Starwood refused to give them out based on the premise of privacy.  I then proceeded to get the names from the USVI tax assessor website, which are public records.  I got all of the owners names.  However, in most cases it only gave their Westin address, not their home address.  The exception to this was in the case of re-sales.  There people's home addresses were given.  So for all of the other people, I went onto www.ussearch.com.  On there I could easily isolate most couple's who didn't have too common a last name.  That would generally give me the hometown that they lived in.  From there, I would go onto www.whitepages.com and find out the exact mailing address.  Then I would send a letter with my contact information.  By doing this, I got a group of about 100 owners interested in changing things at the Westin.  By January, 2010, a group of 5 of us began weekly conference calls.  Phil joined the group in February and Bob in March.  Through the conference calls, we mutually decided to place an ad in Tradewinds and got the names of about 50 more owners.  When the ballots came out for the election, we had roughly 200 people on our list.  This is out of approx 2,800 owners.  There were 35 people running for the Board.  5 of them were in our group.  We all decided amongst ourselves that one of the most important things to do was get rid of the incumbents who didn't seem to do anything for us.  So all of us decided to back Bob and Phil, e-mail this info to all 200 owners and ask them to tell their friends (not on the list of 200) to back them.  Part of the reason we backed Phil was his research on USVI law that we technically have a right to take control of the Board.  With us controling the board, it would be an entirely different ballgame.  If you ask Phil about this now, he will deny this vehemently.  However, I have his e-mail explaining his legal research on this matter. I won't hesitate to share this with everyone on Tugs this letter if he continues to deny this.  The bottom line was that Bob and Phil were elected by a landslide.  Tom, who many of you know, came in 3rd place.  That was with him not even voting for himself.

After the election took place, we had a conference call with our group of 7.  Everything suddenly had to be kept hush, hush from the other owners unless our group mutually decided to spread information.  Apparently, I broke the cardinal rule by sending out an e-mail to the owners about some things going on without their permission.  Arguments took place, name-calling etc.  Bob told me I was disrespectful (totally forgetting that it was me who helped get him elected) and I used some words that I can't mention on here.  As David well knows now, I forwarded Bob's e-mail to all 250 members.  They got nasty responses and decided to break away from the conference calls.  That is understandable. What is not understandable is that Bob and Phil were backed with the understanding that they would fight for control of the Board when and if elected.  After their first Board meeting, they changed course and decided to "work with" Starwood.  As much as I didn't like it, one has to live with the fact that we backed them.  I agree that Bob and Phil are far, far better than their incumbents, but I wish they fought for control.  

One last thing, I brought about my letter regarding the auditors because Bob and Phil voted to have them changed.  Forget about my reasons to suggest they change.  I have no credibility at this point.  However, it is a fact that they voted to to change them at this most recent meeting.  Maybe there is a good reason.  Maybe not.  Let them disclose this information.  We (well no longer me personally) have a right to know the good and the bad.  The letter sent out yesterday (Feb 17th) from the Board members was very positive.  It would be a little more realistic to divulge this event which didn't go their way.

In summary, I want to apologize to you, David, again for sharing your analysis with so many owners.  The information regarding the future fees is not some malicious rumor I'm spreading.  It was based on information provided at one of the owner/manager meetings.  Lastly, Bob and Phil, are far better than their incumbents.  I just wish they took the step to try and take control.  

Gene


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## Makai Guy

*WARNING from the BBS Administrator*

One participant in this thread has reported receiving a threatening message from another participant in this thread via the forum's private messaging system.  This behavior is totally unacceptable.  

If you value your access to this forum, cease and desist NOW.

Any repeat of this performance will result in immediate permanent banning of the sender's bbs account without further warning.


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## ekinggill

Makai Guy said:


> One participant in this thread has reported receiving a threatening message from another participant in this thread



Come On!

The deck isn't stacked against owners enough...now we are going to start fighting among our selves?

The thing that makes this BBS great is the collective free and easy flow of info for the collective good.  This trend toward piling on each other is getting out of hand.


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## DavidnRobin

I agree - we should work to change and improve WSJ-VG, and not be obstructionists.  Bob and Phil are our allies - not our enemies (as I tried to make clear) - and I for one have supported them - even when I may not agree with everything going on.  I know that returning WSJ-VG into a 1st class resort and great place for SVO ownership is their #1 priority - all the while being balanced as Owner representatives on the SVO controlled BOD (their duty) - which cannot be easy.

I have always tried to keep WSJ Tuggers up-to-date on many aspects of both WSJ and STJ - and originally started this thread (the most viewed on the TUG SVO forum - brag...) due to concerns of MFs and resort conditions - then continued as its own thread to keep Owners informed as evident by trip reports as well as news that impacts WSJ Owners and STJ lovers.

Gene - apology accepted - sorry this got out-of-hand.  I realize that you and your group were in large part responsible for the positive change that has occurred at WSJ-VG, but to be clear - you and the group were not solely responsible.  This thread on TUG (actives, viewed, and lurkers) - and the list from WSJ Owners that I got off RedWeek (before they stopped me) - was also a large part of the original list that I shared, and wrote to them to contact your group to get involved with changing the BOD make-up at WSJ-VG.  I dropped off that group because I was concerned with the direction it was taking, and was a tough personal decision on my part - but the personalities were tough to guide away from the 'let's sue' mentality and focusing on the past - both which I abhor. (btw - this is IMO and my perception).

I just want the record to be set straight here - not that it matters moving forward (my intended direction...).  This is evident in the vast amount of votes received by Phil and Bob - and doesn't come close to the numbers that were on anyone's list - also taking into account that other people on the ballot (including the ones you mentioned) also received many votes.  The math was easy to figure out that the votes (well-deserved) received were due to multiple factors which Tuggers play a role as well.

Phil - thanks for responding.  I know that you had to stay off of TUG for the reasons you state.  As I said above - I hope people write to you and Bob to offer thanks as well as ideas and even constructive criticism.  I hope they have.  I know that this is experience has been a challenge for you and Bob - and one that is not easy to balance.  I believe we have made great strides forward with you and Bob as our Owner Reps to the BOD, and still have a ways to go in what has always been my objective - that transparency is key to making this resort 1st class.  Hopefully, with you and Bob as WSJ-VG BOD members and your stride forward will show SVO that they should try this at the other resorts.

Now let's move forward...


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## TimW1

*Interested in new update information*

David,

I know you own a 2BR TH and so do we.  I was wondering if you happened to find out, if there was any damage to the roof or any water damage.  I called the resort and tried to ask the question and they said only renovations are being done and no damage repairs needed for the VG villas.

I am going to be there on May 7 and looking forward to the improvements.

Does anyone plan on using the recycling locker for items that owners do not want to bring back?  I would like to leave beach chairs and possibly a older collapsible cooler for others to use.  

Has anyone else been there within the last month?  I hope the beach is looking good and Snorkel's is back better than ever.

Here's to looking forward to more improvements in the future!  

Tim


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## DavidnRobin

Hi Tim -

No, I do not have any information beyond what has been posted and reported (resort is up and running as normal).  I did not hear about any specific damage, but I am sure that it must have occurred to some extent as roofing and siding needed to be replaced (as is planned).  You will be there before us - we go in June - so hopefully someone will chime in. Someone did go up to B34 (our building) after the last big storm and informed me that visibly nothing appeared out of sorts.

From Bob and Phils's letter - the roof, window, door and siding work will start with B34.  I hope that this is completed before our June visit - but it would be great if you (or others) could give updates.


----------



## TimW1

DavidnRobin said:


> Hi Tim -
> 
> No, I do not have any information beyond what has been posted and reported (resort is up and running as normal).  I did not hear about any specific damage, but I am sure that it must have occurred to some extent as roofing and siding needed to be replaced (as is planned).  You will be there before us - we go in June - so hopefully someone will chime in. Someone did go up to B34 (our building) after the last big storm and informed me that visibly nothing appeared out of sorts.
> 
> From Bob and Phils's letter - the roof, window, door and siding work will start with B34.  I hope that this is completed before our June visit - but it would be great if you (or others) could give updates.






David, 

Thank you for the reply.  It will be nice to have more energy efficient units.  I also read that they were working on the upper hillside units first.  I would think they would be finished with your unit by the time you go on vacation.  I will try to get some pictures taken and talk to the resort manager, once we settle in.

Last year they were finishing up on our unit with interior remodel and had to be in unit 31.  We are hoping to have our unit this year, but if not, no worries.


----------



## DavidnRobin

TimW said:


> David,
> 
> Thank you for the reply.  It will be nice to have more energy efficient units.  I also read that they were working on the upper hillside units first.  I would think they would be finished with your unit by the time you go on vacation.  I will try to get some pictures taken and talk to the resort manager, once we settle in.
> 
> Last year they were finishing up on our unit with interior remodel and had to be in unit 31.  We are hoping to have our unit this year, but if not, no worries.



As I wrote in my 2009 trip report - we showed up to find that our villa was "Out of Order" and were moved to the villa on the other end of B34 - they offered us a 2Bd in the BV, but declined as we prefer Hillside mainly due to parking and away from main resort (a plus for us...).  I tried to talk our way into a 3Bd pool villa - no such luck.  This is the infamous Bee story - as a bee hive had formed inside the wall (they came thru the roof/siding) thereby my opinion about the roof/siding needing repair (as well as many reports of leaks).

I do have videos on YouTube of our villa (and pool area) before and after the remodel - as well as photos on Photobucket.

Also - a few years ago - us and another Owner offered to buy our villa another couch after the refurbish vote failed - it was in such awful condition that it was unusable (we were declined).  This is why we were happy for the forced remodel (quorum or not...) - eventhough it cost WAY more than it should have (IMO).


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Identifying STJ Fish*

Excellent video imbedded on the "On St John" website by Annie Caswell (Annie's Animals) that identifies STJ fish - very cool and informative
http://www.on-stjohn.com/


----------



## TimW1

*Building repairs and Renovations update*

Good Afternoon,

I sent a letter asking about water damages from the storm last fall to the town house villas and received a response.  They addressed the water damages on the villa walls by removal and replacement of dry wall and insulation.  

So, the good news is that those villas that were affected should be as good as new per say.  And I am extremely happy that they assessed and fixed the issue as quickly as possible.

He also stated the building 34 roof renovations are complete and they are now starting on building 33.  But I don't know if they have done the roof renovations on building 31 or 32, but will let you know as soon as I get a response back.

I am looking forward to seeing the improvements!


----------



## letsgomets

*New Owner*

I just got the good news that I'm now in SVO's system following our purchase of a BV xmas week resale (took them about 3 weeks after closing).  Want to thank everyone who gave advice since we got serious a couple of months ago and say that I hope to be an active participant (and certainly a follower) of this thread!


----------



## klatkiew

TimW said:


> Good Afternoon,
> 
> I sent a letter asking about water damages from the storm last fall to the town house villas and received a response.  They addressed the water damages on the villa walls by removal and replacement of dry wall and insulation.
> 
> So, the good news is that those villas that were affected should be as good as new per say.  And I am extremely happy that they assessed and fixed the issue as quickly as possible.
> 
> He also stated the building 34 roof renovations are complete and they are now starting on building 33.  But I don't know if they have done the roof renovations on building 31 or 32, but will let you know as soon as I get a response back.
> 
> I am looking forward to seeing the improvements!



We were there in early January.  Building 44 - the 3 bedroom villas, suffered the greatest damage and you could see the line in the wall 3 1/2 feet high =- where all of the dry wall had been pulled out.  Everything on the main level was replaced but the unit looked great!  There were still some little issues (phone problems, cable issues) but they were focusing on the physical units before dealing with all of that stuff.  I was told that the units up on the hill also had damage but not as bad as these - so if that's the case - your unit probably didn't have to go through what ours did (that's a good thing!).

The roofs on bldgs 33/34 were being worked on and at the time - 31/32 hadn't started yet.  Hopefully i don't have these mixed up - 33/34 are at the very top I think.  Many of the buildings, hotel included, had roof repairs as a result of the storms - it was pretty easy to see where they had made repairs.

The kids club was all pretty much back to normal but the arcade was empty - i don't know if they are replacing everything or what.

Someone on this thread was also asking about the tennis courts - they were almost completely refinished in early Jan.  Only one was still being worked on.  

In the owners update i was told that most everything that needed to be replaced was expected to be completed in February/early March.

Given what they went through - i think they did a fantastic job getting the resort up and running again!  Can't wait to see all of the changes when we go back.


----------



## DavidnRobin

letsgomets said:


> I just got the good news that I'm now in SVO's system following our purchase of a BV xmas week resale (took them about 3 weeks after closing).  Want to thank everyone who gave advice since we got serious a couple of months ago and say that I hope to be an active participant (and certainly a follower) of this thread!



Congrats letsgomets... GIANTS!  

I think you are the 1st report on TUG of WSJ-BV being purchased on the resale market.  I think many would be interested on how much lower you paid resale than SVO price for this villa? Is your Xmas week fixed?  Is the villa fixed? 
if you don't mind sharing...


----------



## letsgomets

DavidnRobin said:


> Congrats letsgomets... GIANTS!
> 
> I think you are the 1st report on TUG of WSJ-BV being purchased on the resale market.  I think many would be interested on how much lower you paid resale than SVO price for this villa? Is your Xmas week fixed?  Is the villa fixed?
> if you don't mind sharing...



Thanks.  We paid 40K for a fixed week 51 (annual) in a 2BR BV unit.  I don't think it was ever listed -- we happened to be chatting with the owner during a taxi ride back from Cruz Bay and he mentioned his interest in selling.  SVO wanted more than double that.  I think the owner wanted a quick, hassle-free, unconditional sale without a price negotiation (which we were able to do).


----------



## DavidnRobin

*STJ Tradewinds Article*

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...conomic-storm&catid=557:201103-news&Itemid=38


----------



## klatkiew

Just got 2007 tax bills.  $402 for a 3 bedroom pool villa.


----------



## DavidnRobin

$402 for a 3Bd pool villa - that seems high.  Our 2Bd/3Ba TH villas around $135 each (for 2007) - your assessment must be high - ours is around $18-20K.  Not sure if it is worth it to you - but there is a re-asssessment process, but I think you need to be able to go to STT to file an appeal (not sure at all, but generally that is how they are handled - you may want to call the Tax Assessors office and inquire)

I saw on the USVI Tax Assessors website (http://public.usvi.cavucorp.com/logon.htm) that 2007 Tax bills had been sent - supposedly a few weeks ago. We have not received ours yet (been waiting), but glad to see that someone has.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*STJ Guidebook (2011)*

STJ Guidebook (2011) - internet version

http://www.stjohnguidebook.com/st-john-guidebook/index.html


----------



## klatkiew

For those that may own in building 44..  i received a call this week from John Ireland in response to a letter i sent outlining the issues with our unit.   He told me that in the May/June timeframe building 44 will have the roof replaced, the doors replaced and 4413 will have the pool resurfaced and the hot tub fixed (on/off switch vs. 2 hour timer).    Everything but the pool is part of the refurb.   The pool resurfacing is a result of the floods.   All good news!


----------



## NerdAlert

Klat-
Did he say the units in bldg 44 will able to be used while work is going on? We got bumped from 4415 last June because of the sprinkler flood, so I'm not thrilled if it's 2 years in a row....I'll email him to get an answer. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## klatkiew

NerdAlert said:


> Klat-
> Did he say the units in bldg 44 will able to be used while work is going on? We got bumped from 4415 last June because of the sprinkler flood, so I'm not thrilled if it's 2 years in a row....I'll email him to get an answer. Thanks for the heads up!



He made it sound like the entire building would be unavailable.   When i spoke to them back in January they said they would take one building at a time 'out' for a month while they did all the work.   Hopefully they'll hit our building in May and you'll be fine.

Did you also have an upstairs master bath that only had a bathtub... no shower?   Ours finally got replaced with a shower that looks like the ones in the Bay Vista units - very nice.


----------



## NerdAlert

Klat- Sorry for the delay. Mr. Ireland gave no info, just told us to contact owner services who, of course, know nothing. They said call the front desk......(circle of life, Starwood style).  Yes the 4412 upstairs bath did just have a tub, so hopefully it will get a shower. 4415 had the old setup upstairs as of 2009--one bath, curvey wall....


----------



## NerdAlert

*Annual meeting for WSJ for 2011*

Anyone hear any date yet?


----------



## letsgomets

Got card yesterday.  3pm on May 24 at WDW Dolphin.


----------



## tomandrobin

I got 2007 tax bills for my WSJ Studios.....That I bought in Spring of 2008!


----------



## tomandrobin

letsgomets said:


> Got card yesterday.  3pm on May 24 at WDW Dolphin.



Me too....Will not be attending.


----------



## tomandrobin

tomandrobin said:


> I got 2007 tax bills for my WSJ Studios.....That I bought in Spring of 2008!



Well....Tried to see on the website where to file a complaint....These is going to be a Pain in the Ass.


----------



## NerdAlert

Thanks Mets! 3pm?? Sounds like a short meeting.


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> Well....Tried to see on the website where to file a complaint....These is going to be a Pain in the Ass.



Hi Tom - File a complaint on WSJ/MSC website, or USVI?  This is not WSJ's direct issue (unless you bought form them) as the tax bill comes from the USVI is owed to Tax Assessors office.  If I understand correctly from your post - the 1st issue I see is that when the property title/deed was transferred the taxes were not dealt with.  This should have been taken care of.  For example, when we bought our 2nd week we put in the contract who deals with the taxes (we did, but were compenstaed for them).

Now, if you bought your WSJ VOI from SVO/WSJ, then they are responsible for paying these taxes.  If bought resale, and taxes were not dealt with, you have an issue because USVI will want ther tax and they do not care who it comes from, and you (via you holding title) are their only recourse to recover the tax, and will bill you.  (there is documentation regarding back taxes paid when purchasing and about the taxes not going beyond 2005+)  So if no agreement, then you may be responsible for these taxes when you took over the Title.  Perhaps you can try and recover through the seler, but unless they cooperate (because they care about karma) it will likely take you more time/effort/cost to recover from them than the bill itself.

btw - I am not a tax expert (NAE) - just that I had to deal with this in both my purchases, and have talked to the Tax Assessors office a few times - as well as went into the tax roles when they were public and free.


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Hi Tom - File a complaint on WSJ/MSC website, or USVI?  This is not WSJ's direct issue (unless you bought form them) as the tax bill comes from the USVI is owed to Tax Assessors office.  If I understand correctly from your post - the 1st issue I see is that when the property title/deed was transferred the taxes were not dealt with.  This should have been taken care of.  For example, when we bought our 2nd week we put in the contract who deals with the taxes (we did, but were compenstaed for them).
> 
> Now, if you bought your WSJ VOI from SVO/WSJ, then they are responsible for paying these taxes.  If bought resale, and taxes were not dealt with, you have an issue because USVI will want ther tax and they do not care who it comes from, and you (via you holding title) are their only recourse to recover the tax, and will bill you.  (there is documentation regarding back taxes paid when purchasing and about the taxes not going beyond 2005+)  So if no agreement, then you may be responsible for these taxes when you took over the Title.  Perhaps you can try and recover through the seler, but unless they cooperate (because they care about karma) it will likely take you more time/effort/cost to recover from them than the bill itself.
> 
> btw - I am not a tax expert (NAE) - just that I had to deal with this in both my purchases, and have talked to the Tax Assessors office a few times - as well as went into the tax roles when they were public and free.



Bought the studios resale...the ebay steal. We bought in March, settled in May (I think) traded back/upgraded in August. So, I actually only owned the two units for 4-5 months.

My resale was finished by John Faeth's wife, about a month after his death. This too could be part of the issue. 

On the one hand the tax is $75 per unit....$150 total, so how much time and effort should i really invest. But by paying it, do I open myself to additional responsibility.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I was very lucky when it came to the issues that arose with John Faeth's passing by a few days (important lesson learned) in putting Robin's name on our WSJ week 24 title, and buying our 2nd week at WKV.

An issue beyond this was there was no tax bill to pay until recently - so no one to pay to or amount to pay as it was unknown until last year.  This is what there is a USVI tax document that states the taxes were clear through 2005, but not beyond 2005 (specifically now 2006 and 2007)

Sorry to mention this - but who paid the 2006 taxes that were due last year?  The 2006 tax bill was also outstanding with no way for the previous owner pay.  Perhaps the previous owner got the tax bill and paid (if you are lucky)?

My suggestion is to call the USVI tax assessors (being very patient and clear) with the parcel number - and ask if the 2006 taxes were paid, and if they had been then they were paid by the previous owners last year - this could be a good sign and may be wiling to pay 2007 as well.  You will need their contact info - you could ask USVI Tax Assessors office - unfortunately many are sent to WSJ (as they have WSJ address on the tax bill) and WSJ then sends them out.

I have yet to get my 2007 tax bill that I found out was sent to WSJ (arg) - but I did get the USVI Tax Assessors office to send them to me.  Luckily for me - I still have contact with the previous Owner because they still receive stuff from USVI and WSJ (double arg).

also - with your parcel number - you can get into the USVI property tax database.
http://public.usvi.cavucorp.com/logon.htm


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> (arg) (double arg).



 The price we all pay for paradise....arg!


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> The price we all pay for paradise....arg!



Yep - but at least we will be in paradise in just 7 weeks for 14 days. Prepared to get sun/heat shocked...

Mask/Snorkle/Flippers - check
Sunscreen - check
Bug Spray - check
Flip-Flops - check
Sun Shirt - check
Neat Sheet - check
Soft-side cooler - check
Peets Coffee - check
Brita Water Filter - check
New Bikinis for Robin - check  

ready to go...

Hope my posts help.


----------



## tomandrobin

Excellent!!

We traded our St John week and rented our HRA weeks for this year. We are heading to Italy and Greece, leaving next month. Next year, we'll be back to WSJ and  HRA. 

Aren't you leaving early this year?


----------



## DavidnRobin

Sounds like fun - good for you.

Our weeks (23-24 - Fri-Fri) are late this year - iirc this is late as it will ever get.

My only worry is that the USVI has only *10% * of normal rain so far this year - and the islands are brown - water is getting delivered by trucks.  I hope it rains soon - or waits until we leave (like last year).  We have been so lucky weather-wise with all of our vacations - I have an odd feeling about this one.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Proxies for 2011 WSJ-VG Association meeting*

To all WSJ-VG Owners -

Please be aware that the proxy notices have been sent out for the 2011 WSJ-VG Association's Annual meeting slated for Tuesday, May 24 (9am EST, Walt Disney World Dolphin, Lake Buena Vista, FLA)

The proxies are electronic and the mailer could easily be misidentified as junk mail - so keep an eye out for it.  It is important that you fill out the proxy as it is required to have a quorum (regardless of how you feel about the HOA or other issues) as it is necessary to conduct official business.

if you want a paper copy of the proxy material - call 1-877-640-5142
(in case you do not have a computer... then again if you didn't you would not see this post  )


----------



## jerseygirl

Now that I've finally won an auction (!), I though other WSJ owners/visitors might be interested in these Cruz Bay Watersports certificates available on skyauction:

http://www.skyauction.com/action/offer/1932591

There are better ways to tour the islands, snorkel, etc (shout out to Stu!) ... but, I thought it was worth it to buy $400 of certificates for ~$200.  The convenience factor is great -- they're located on property -- and we've taken their tours before and enjoyed them.  They rent boats also -- but, they made me take a test ... I didn't pass.  Who knew the emergency signal on the radio wasn't 911?  :hysterical: 

For the last week or two, as soon as one auction ends, another one pops up ... so don't give up on the first try.  It took me several tries but I finally won one.  I tried to be civil and showed my bid early, to no avail.  Finally set my cell phone to go off 5 minutes before the auction ended and beat the snipers.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Thanks for the reminder about Stu - and I forgot about radio operation (was thinking of renting from WaterSports) - I can pull off motoring the boat, easy navigation and immigration/custom check in/out (having been back/forth enough...), but radio communication - I will need to refresh (been about 6 years).  What else did they test?

I looked at the auction - I guess I need to figure out if worth it.  We leave in 6-weeks - coming-up quickly.
Hope all is well. Say 'hey' to Katy and Patrick.


----------



## TimW1

DavidnRobin said:


> To all WSJ-VG Owners -
> 
> Please be aware that the proxy notices have been sent out for the 2011 WSJ-VG Association's Annual meeting slated for Tuesday, May 24 (9am EST, Walt Disney World Dolphin, Lake Buena Vista, FLA)
> 
> The proxies are electronic and the mailer could easily be misidentified as junk mail - so keep an eye out for it.  It is important that you fill out the proxy as it is required to have a quorum (regardless of how you feel about the HOA or other issues) as it is necessary to conduct official business.
> 
> if you want a paper copy of the proxy material - call 1-877-640-5142
> (in case you do not have a computer... then again if you didn't you would not see this post  )



Hi David,

Do you know by chance what the issues are?  I have not received my proxy.  Has anyone received theirs?

Thanks.

Tim


----------



## DavidnRobin

I do not know what the issues are - they have an annual meeting... annually. 

There are people that know better than me how it works - generally to approve the budget.  I hear that they are not very eventful - except the one where there were ~30 people running for 2 open spots on the BOD which caused some contention among Owners.  IMO - we should stand united (even if we do not agree) as being divided only helps SVO to keep the status quo.

The proxy notification was sent on a card (~5x8) that could be mistaken for junk mail.  Proxy voting is done on a web-site (intelliscan) and needs the code on the proxy card. There are 2 choices.  #1 is to either allow the Secretary (Paulette) to make you vote or a place to have a proxy holder filled in (your choice of a person that is attending the meeting) to make your vote - if you do not plan to attend.  #2 choice is to have your proxy vote count towards a quorum (necessary according to by-laws to have any actions voted upon) - and if I understand correctly if no choice is made in #1, and only #2 - then it goes to the Secretary to vote anyway.  

I went to the proxy website and after looking at it - I am thinking of contacting Phil Schrag (Owner BOD member) and asking him to be my proxy vote.  This is this approach that I am considering - as I prefer Phil voting for me over the Secretary.  Others may have a different view (and their opinion) - so to those who disagree - please do not bash me - as I will respond in kind even if it causes me to be banned here since my intent here is to help and not hinder.

I know Phil from email contacts and talking with him while at WSJ.  I trust him to do his best given the system that he and Bob Werbel (other Owner BOD) need to work with within the by-laws.

At this point every WSJ-VG owner should have received their proxies - if not I would contact the number that I supplied above.  Remember that the proxies are important to vote upon so the BOD can do their business that they were 'elected' to do (well... at least 2 of them).  Remember that SVO controls 3 of the 5 BOD members - not much that can be done about it unless Owners successfully sue to have the by-laws invalidated and changed.
(good luck with that...)

If anyone has opinions here (same or different) - feel free to post - but keep it focused on the issues and things that can be changed (and no bashing...).  Even as a majority - SVO still controls the BOD, but at least Phil and Bob have bought better transparency.  As fast as I (and others) would like? No, but I understand the challenges and the fine line that Phil and Bob need to walk.

IMO
YMMV
NAE


----------



## WildJohn

*Regarding Proxy*

David,

My name is John and I'm new to Tugs.  I think I understand Tim's question.  There is a proxy to fill out and then you assign someone who will be present at the meeting to place the votes on your behalf.  However, there generally needs to be votes for each owner to be voted upon.  Think of it like the Electoral College in the Presidential Election.  You place a vote on who you want for President and the Electoral College in your state promises to vote they way you choose.  However, there are rare instances where they vote the other way.  That's why in this particular situation you want somebody you can trust to use as your proxy.  It sounds like Phil Schrag is definitely a good choice.  However, what is he voting on?  Intelliscan is there to tabulate votes on something.  There have to be items for all owners to vote on somewhere.  Maybe you can make some inquires and let us know.

John


----------



## WildJohn

*Additional Information on Proxy*

I have since found out from the Phil Schrag and Shawn O'Brien that there are no major items to be voted upon in this election.  However, for legal reasons, to make the meeting "official" and "legal" there needs to be a quorum.  I think David's suggestion is a good one.  Put Phil down as the proxy.  That way if some emergency vote comes up, you know that Phil will vote in a way the most benefits the owners at Virgin Grand Villas.  What you don't want to do is select Paulette Carter, Secretary of the Board of Directors.  She is a Starwood employee on our HOA Board.  She'll vote the way her bosses at Starwood tell her to.

Thanks Dave for your good advice.

John


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ replenishes sand at GCB*

http://stjohnsource.com/content/new...8/westin-resort-gets-go-ahead-renourish-beach


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Hurricane Info*

...for those concerned about hurricanes in the Eastern Caribbean.
http://www.stormcarib.com/climatology/ECAR_map_bathy.htm


----------



## DavidnRobin

WildJohn said:


> I have since found out from the Phil Schrag and Shawn O'Brien that there are no major items to be voted upon in this election.  However, for legal reasons, to make the meeting "official" and "legal" there needs to be a quorum.  I think David's suggestion is a good one.  Put Phil down as the proxy.  That way if some emergency vote comes up, you know that Phil will vote in a way the most benefits the owners at Virgin Grand Villas.  What you don't want to do is select Paulette Carter, Secretary of the Board of Directors.  She is a Starwood employee on our HOA Board.  She'll vote the way her bosses at Starwood tell her to.
> 
> Thanks Dave for your good advice.
> 
> John



Hi John -

Yes, just a standard proxy vote.  I am going to put down Phillip Schrag as my proxy holder (and also as a symbolic gesture). I checked with him and he is fine with it, and said pretty much the same as you (std vote), and it won't matter whether him or Paulette (BOD Secretary) for this meeting have the proxy vote.  It sounds as if SVO-WSJ is listening to Bob/Phil (whether one agrees or not) which sounds positive (to me).

*More important is to make sure Owners to send in their proxies so the HOA BOD can do their business.* ...just saying.

We leave in a few weeks - getting excited...
(but first Sheraton Petaluma, then a Chicago Starwood... busy)


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Resort Updates*

New additions to 'upcoming visit' email that I have never seen before...

_Unfortunately, the resort is unable to accept phase requests. Please contact Owner Services to place special requests up to 24 hours in advance of your arrival. The resort will make every effort to fulfill your requests, but requests are subject to availability and therefore not guaranteed. Rollaway beds, cribs and other special request items are limited in supply and are fulfilled on first-come, first-served basis. Charges apply for some special request items. Rollaway beds may be requested for ground floor villas only in the Hillside phase and are not available in the studio premium villa due to space limitations. 

Unforeseen events or circumstances beyond our control may result in last-minute changes. As a result, villa assignment or special requests will only be confirmed during the check-in process._

and... great to hear - can't wait to check it out (and donate...)

_Guests are welcome to visit the resort's Freecycle Facility. Freecycling is when a person passes along an item, in good working condition, to another person for free. The Freecycle Facility is open 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. daily and is located just before the roundabout at the entrance to Buildings 41 through 44. Items could include beach chairs, sand toys, snorkel gear, books and extra detergent. You may take freecycle items to your villa for use during your stay. Be sure to return any items to the Freecycle Facility so that other future guests can use them.  _


Also - information on Hillside renovation activities... seems outdated - but good to hear.

_resort advisory- important information that may affect your stay

The Virgin Grand phase will undergo a complete exterior refurbishment to each building during 2011. This project is the final phase of a multi-year refurbishment project, funded by the homeowner's association. Throughout 2011, guests in the Virgin Grand phase may anticipate seeing and hearing construction activity during their stay. Guests may anticipate seeing scaffolding around buildings, large dumpsters for material removal, and heavy equipment. Work will be performed 7-days a week between the hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., with the noise periods contained to 9 a.m. and 6 p.m.

Additionally, the Hillside Pool and Deck areas will be renovated. These tentative dates are as follows: 

Hillside pool between buildings 33 and 34 will be out of order from March 7 - March 25. 
Hillside pool between buildings 31 and 32 will be out of order from March 28 – April 15. _

and link...
http://www.starwoodvacationownershi...Y_WSJ_EMAIL_201103_SVO_ANNOUNCEMENTS_ADVISORY

2011 Westin ferry is $110 (adults) and $90 (youth 4-12) - RT


----------



## Westin5Star

The Freecycle Facility is a great idea and IMO should be at all resorts.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Westin5Star said:


> The Freecycle Facility is a great idea and IMO should be at all resorts.



I agree whole-heartedly - we have left behind some pretty nice stuff (flippers, chairs, mats, soap...).  WSJ has the lay-out to get this done, but would be great if HI resorts could get the same done.  Not sure if it was Phil/Bob's idea - or they were just able to implement it - but goes to show that change is possible.

I will get a chance 1st hand to see if it is working in a few weeks - and report back.
(side note - also arranging a water-day with Stu)


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Sign-up for WSJ-VG Owners Directory (2011)*

also new in my inbox today... 

*****
*Virgin Grand Villas-Owner Directory Coming Soon-Sign Up Now! *

Dear DAVID,

The long-awaited publication of the next Virgin Grand Villas-Voluntary Owner Directory will soon take place. Now is your opportunity to participate in the Directory. Submitting your information is easier than ever. The “click here” link below will take you directly to a website especially developed to collect data for the Directory. Instructions on each page will walk you through the steps necessary for successful enrollment. Please be sure to read and carefully follow all instructions.

IMPORTANT: All Owners must submit their information using the link below in order to be included in the Directory - even if you were already listed in the previous Directory or recently provided your information by some other means. A new submission is required for each publication of the Directory. This helps to ensure that the most accurate and up-to-date information available will be used to prepare the Directory.

Don’t delay! The final date to submit your information is Sunday - June 5, 2011. Participating Owners will receive an email shortly thereafter which provides a link to access the Directory.

Click here to sign up for the Virgin Grand Villas-Voluntary Owner Directory.

Sincerely, 
SVO Management, Inc.

link = http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22CAGACA345
*****

...in USVI-speak - that should be 'Soon Come'


----------



## Westin5Star

DavidnRobin said:


> I agree whole-heartedly - we have left behind some pretty nice stuff (flippers, chairs, mats, soap...).  WSJ has the lay-out to get this done, but would be great if HI resorts could get the same done.  Not sure if it was Phil/Bob's idea - or they were just able to implement it - but goes to show that change is possible.
> 
> I will get a chance 1st hand to see if it is working in a few weeks - and report back.
> (side note - also arranging a water-day with Stu)



David,

I am going to St. John in November so leave me some nice stuff!!!

I also plan to hook up with Stu for another awesome day while we are there; in fact, I am going to email him now.


----------



## Bubbasgonefishin

Does anyone know how long they will be having the complimentary beach shuttle?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Villa Rentals for WSJ-VG Owners (Soon End)*

Link to thread about villa rentals of deliquent Owners VOIs for WSJ-VG Owners - for cost of 2011 MFs

Hurry.
Soon End.
{in island speak...}

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146610

Bubba - I will update about the beach shuttle when we are there next month (soon come).


----------



## bobpark56

Bubbasgonefishin said:


> Does anyone know how long they will be having the complimentary beach shuttle?



Don't know, but we got the impression that WSJ is finding it so popular and so much of an attraction to guests that they just might keep it!


----------



## Robin&Mark

We will be going again this summer and are interested in touring the islands, can anyone tell me who Stu is that is referred to above if he provides this type of service?
Thank you


----------



## TimW1

*My Family and I just got back.*

The renovations are looking very nice.  We are in building 32 in a town home style.  Things that really stood out were the roof, stucco siding, kitchen, showers in upstairs bathrooms and new sliding glass door on patio.  They were all improvements.  

I did notice that they are no longer using feather top mattress pads for Westin Heavenly beds in villas, but are still using them in their hotel rooms.  I did ask the staff about this and they told me they are discontinuing this in the villas.  Why?  They did not offer a reason.  We do stay at several Westin Hotels through out the year and this is a staple for their Heavenly Beds.  

The Freecycle  is just starting to get used.  I will hold judgement until next year.  I did leave a few items behind.  Dishwashing and laundry detergent and one beach chair.  I will bring the other one next year.

The grounds of the resort looked in tip top shape.  They had replanted many new palms and plants all around the resort to replace those that had suffered damage last fall.  Snorkels looked in great shape as well as the all the pools.

We did go to the owners update meeting and were shown the 3br pool villa.  The sales person opened the door and the villa was flooded, whoops.  We still looked around.  No updates have been done yet to the pool villas yet or there would have not been the flood issue.  We told them we were in no position to purchase anything at this time.  They were kind and asked us if we had any concerns about our ownership or our villa.  And we voiced them and they had us write them down on a form, which was a first for us.  I felt like they listened and hope they will at least address them in a future meeting.  

It rained off and on during our stay so the island became quite green during our stay and hopefully will end the long drought that has been going on.  We had a great stay.  Salt Pond and Hawknest had an abundance of marine life for snorkeling this year.  Waterlemon Cay in Leinster Bay did not offer the vibrance of coral color as in years past but still had turtles and sea stars.

I will try to post a trip report soon on the Caribbean forum soon.

I still have the St. John Blues.


----------



## klatkiew

Any chance you remember the building and/or unit number of the flooded 3bdrm?   Bldg 44 can't seem to catch a break.


----------



## jerseygirl

Tim W -- I may have used your beach chair today at Hawk's Nest -- thank you very much!    I love the freecycle!  My lugguage didn't arrive until today and we've taken great advantage of several items.

The Hillside upper buildings look terrific!  Will try to upload a couple of pictures.  When we first drove up from the car ferry, we thought something new had been built -- it's that drastic of a difference.   If I can get a shot from the top of the hill without getting killed, I'll be sure to post it.  If not, I'll at least get one from a closer angle.

Our pool villa not flooded, thank goodness!


----------



## DavidnRobin

Hi JG -  I saw from Katy's FaceBook that you guys were back on STJ - nice.  Too bad we missed you by a few week's.  I would love to see the photos - although we will 'soon come'. Glad to hear that the free-cycle is working out.

Tim W - At first I was surprised about your mention of the pillow-tops being gone because I thought you were talking about the Heavenly beds, but then realized you just meant the feather comforter.  We do use it anyway - so no loss (for us).  I would be curious to see if they have replaced the Heavenly mattresses like they have scheduled.


----------



## TimW1

It was building 42.  It was flooded in the locker area, part of the master bedroom area, and the bathroom area.  It had rained quite a bit the night before.  It had been a cloudy an rainy stretch for the last 14 days.  It should break out of it soon.  :whoopie:


----------



## TimW1

Jerseygirl-so glad you are using potentially my beach chair.  Hope the pics of the hillside villas turn out.  My camera broke down on the second day.  My brother-in-law took most of the pics until I found a camera towards the end of our vacation.

David- I hope you have a great vacation.  I misspoke and meant to say the mattress pad, which I believe is feather top.  It goes on top of the westin mattress and then the mattess sheet over that.  It make the Westin bed so "Heavenly". lol  Anyhow, they aren't using them on the hillside villas anymore.  No explanation given, they did not know why.


----------



## DavidnRobin

WSJ on FaceBook
{for those FB friendly Tuggers...)

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/WestinStJohn


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Virgin Grand Villas - Report from Owner-Elected Representatives - May, 2011*

*Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Villas Owner: *

We have now completed our first year as your elected members of the Board of Directors, and we have just returned from the Annual Meeting of the owners association, which was held together with a regular Board meeting in Orlando, Florida. As in the past, our meeting with the management-appointed directors and with the management company staff was cordial and productive.

*What’s happening at the resort *
We are happy to report that the refurbishing project is on schedule and essentially within the budget that was proposed. If you have been to St. John recently, you have seen the improvements with your own eyes: the hillside buildings have new roofs, repaired stucco, and new and improved doors and windows. Construction is starting just about now on the pool villa buildings. All of the work is projected to be completed before the Christmas season begins.

The resort as a whole has had a similar upgrade: a small silver lining from last fall’s storm damage is that it facilitated resurfacing of the big pool and of the tennis courts, improvements in the kids club, and many smaller upgrades, much of which were paid for out of insurance claims. We learned that the resort was restored to AAA Four Diamond status, and it was designated the best beach resort in the Virgin Islands by the Virgin Islands Daily News.

Another significant improvement is the installation of a voicemail hotline that you can call from your villa. You can leave compliments, complaints, or requests for attention to an engineering problem, and your voicemail will go directly and promptly to Mike Ryan, the general manager, or another of the senior managers. We understand that owners have used this voicemail and report great satisfaction. (You’ll find the number to dial on a tent card next to the telephone in your villa.)

More good news: the iguana shuttle is again running on a regular schedule, and more than 50 of the older golf carts have been replaced. Also, recycling bins for cans and animal-proof garbage cans dot the property. This fall, new gas lines and gas grills are being added to the pool villas, and buildings 41 and 42 will get new pool decking. The hillside pools and their decks are being resurfaced, and new lighting and fencing is being constructed. The freecyle shed is getting increased use (be sure to leave something useful behind when you visit, to get it up to full capacity). And weekly owners’ receptions are being restored in June.

There is a bit of bad news, too: the premium on our association’s property insurance is being increased by 38% (in dollar terms, about $94,000 per annum, or about $20 per average unit week). The reason is a combination of industry-wide property insurance premium increases (occasioned by the Japanese earthquake and the tornadoes in the U.S.) and the storm problems that the Virgin Islands experienced last year. (We are fortunate to participate in an insurance portfolio comprised of a large number of Starwood properties. If we had our own stand-alone policy, it would likely not have been renewed at all, given the storm damage last year and the insurance industry’s aversion to risk.)

*The special offer to owners*
As you know, many weeks whose owners were locked out because of non-payment of fees were offered for rental to owners for the cost of the unpaid maintenance fee. Fifteen such units were rented, bringing in $35,000 to the association’s operating account. This was a successful first effort, but we hope that if there are a substantial number of such weeks next year, more will be rented to St. John owners, again for the cost of the unpaid fees. There were a few technical glitches this year which we are working with our management company to improve upon for next year.

*The online directory*
All owners should by now have received an offer to participate in the online owner directory, which will enable owners to contact each other to swap or buy and sell weeks. As of the meeting, 638 of approximately 3,000 owners have listed themselves. The directory will be more useful if more owners list themselves, so we urge everyone to get on the list. Remember, even if you were listed in last fall’s directory, you need to re-list yourself every time the directory is re-issued. The closing date to be listed is June 5. If you didn’t receive an offer to participate, click here to be directed to the input screen for enrollment. We expect that the directory will be available before the end of June.

*The online bulletin board*
The management company is actively working on another tool to facilitate swaps and sales among owners: an online bulletin board, with access available through mystarcentral.com, on which owners will be able to post weeks that they want to exchange, rent to others, or sell, and weeks that they seek to exchange into, rent from others, or buy. Design of this new system is taking a little longer than we’d hoped, but getting it right, at the lowest possible cost, is worth a little delay, particularly with the directory available in the meantime.

*Reserves for the future*
As we previously reported, our maintenance fee is never going to revert to the 2008 level, because the developer subsidy has ended and because we are now planning reserves so that we don’t again have massive, surprising short-term fee increases. However, maintenance fees decreased for 2011 and because the refurbishment project is ending, we expect another decrease for 2012. We don’t yet know exactly how much the decrease will be. We are now beginning to rebuild our reserves to plan for the future replacement, at the end of their useful lives, for items such as roofs, chillers, pavement and pool resurfacing, cabinetry, plumbing fixtures, windows, doors, exterior stucco, interior furnishings, appliances and electronics.

Next year’s budget will also include an average of $75 per unit week for construction payments that we deferred from 2011 to 2012 to keep maintenance fees down in 2011, the increased insurance premium, and expenses that we must incur to comply with requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the regulations for which were recently amended to apply to time share developments. As previously reported, we may also suggest to the Board that we begin to build a reserve to cover the huge (more than $1.5 million) deductible on the property insurance policy, to protect us, eventually, from having to have a special assessment if there is a major, devastating hurricane. This reserve will, however, take up to a decade to build up to a level at which it could cover most of the deductible.

Next fall, the Board will also consider having an outside consultant conduct a one-time study of our reserve planning, to assure us that our reserve planning is neither significantly too high nor significantly too low.

The management company has made the governing documents available to owners through mystarcentral.com, and owners may request additional documents (such as a more detailed budget or a list of the projected costs of all replacement items for which we are now budgeting through the reserve). (To request these additional documents through mystarcentral.com, go to the page entitled “Your Owners Association”, select one of your units, and then click on “Request Your Association Documents” on the right side of the page.)

*Owner questions*
We discussed a couple of items regarding specific questions we received from owners during the board meeting. They had to do with mandatory SVN membership for owners who never exchange, and with storage lockers on site. The Board has asked the management company to look into both of these items and report upon at the next meeting.

*Foreclosures, and sales of association-owned units*
The foreclosure process has begun for 26 unit weeks whose owners are in arrears, and more foreclosures are likely. We urge all owners to pay their maintenance fees and to continue to enjoy our slice of paradise. But if you fall behind and are unable to keep up with your maintenance fees, and your unit is not mortgaged, you might explore whether the association will allow you to turn over your deed rather than going through a potentially expensive foreclosure process.

Approximately 20 deeds have been turned over to the association so far, and these units will be offered to Virgin Grand owners, at greatly reduced rates, before they are offered on the open market. If you have registered your email address on mystarcentral.com, you will hear more through email about this special offer in the coming months. The proceeds of these sales will go to the owners’ association.

*Proxy notices*
Some owners told us that they were unhappy that the notices of the annual meeting provide only the name of the Secretary of the Association, an SVO-appointed director, as the person to receive proxies. This is a normal practice for Associations; however, in the future, these notices will list both the Secretary and one of the owner-elected directors as an alternative. However, there is less to this change than meets the eye, for two reasons. First, unless an owner provides specific instructions as to how a proxy is to be cast with respect to an issue on the agenda, any member of the Board receiving a proxy must vote the proxy as the Board directs. Second, there are rarely if ever contested matters to be decided at the annual meeting. The main purpose of soliciting proxies for the annual meeting is only to establish a quorum. The exception is that two directors are elected by the membership every three years (the next election will be in 2013). But in the last election, owners voted directly for candidates, and the Board determined that any undesignated proxies would be cast for the two candidates receiving the highest weighted voting total. Starwood was entitled to cast votes by virtue of its ownership of unit weeks (it still owns about 8% of the unit weeks) and voluntarily agreed to cast its votes in the same manner as the undesignated proxies voted by the Board so as not influence the election. We expect that this procedure will be followed in the future. 

*Communications from owners*
During the last six months, we have received many emails from owners telling us how pleased they are with the tangible and intangible changes at the resort. Thank you for allowing us to serve you during this period in which our property is rapidly improving.

All our best, 
Philip G. Schrag 
phil.schrag@gmail.com

Bob Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com


----------



## SDKath

Wow, what a detailed letter.  Wish the rest of the resorts were this up front about communicating!  Sounds like they are making some major improvements to the WSJ properties...

I would love to hear about the special pricing of the foreclosed units.  I hope someone posts when you get the news...

Katherine


----------



## jarta

SDKath,   ...   "Sounds like they are making some major improvements to the WSJ properties..."

Yes, they are shaping things up.  But, the financial situation seems "iffy."

1.  Insurance premium is going way up, $20 per average week.

2.   The deductible has been increased to $1.5M.  Apparently, there is no present reserve in that amount and one needs to be created, hopefully before the next big storms.

3.  $75 per average week in in 2011 construction costs were "deferred" to 2012 and will be paid for from the 2012 assessment.  That tends to make the 2011 assessment look good but will tend to increase the 2012 assessment.  And, it raises the question of whether the budget is an "honest" budget if costs can be turned into unpaid bills without disclosing it until after the budget for the year is well under way.  Or, does it just mean that there are unanticipated cost overruns?

4.  "many weeks ... were offered for rental ...  Fifteen such  weeks were rented, bringing in $35,000  to the association's operating account."  Good news, but why were only 15 rented?  Didn't VG owners jump at this opportunity?

I think the overall picture is of a HOA board struggling to keep finances under control and MF as low as it can while doing those many good new improvements and coping with the damage from last Fall's storms.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I know it is not fashionable to do so - but color me optimistic...

Kath - jerseygirl keeps up on those types of things.

Am I the only one that has made a prediction on 2012 MFs, but looks as it I will need to increase it by $100.

St John - soon come


_Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it._
George Santayana

_She's a Black-Magic Woman..._
Carlos Santana


----------



## bobpark56

Does the Westin St John hurricane policy apply for owners and exchangers as well as for hotel guests?

Quote: "Hurricane Policy
In the event of a hurricane* on the Virgin Islands, The Westin St. John Resort & Villas will replace a guest's vacation for the entire duration of the reservation. This guarantee applies to room and applicable taxes. This policy is applicable to transient reservations and groups as stipulated in their contracts.

The stipulations that apply are as follows:

Replacement vacation must be taken at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas within one calendar year. Reservations for comparable accommodations will be made on a space available basis. Blackout dates do apply (as determined in our sole discretion).
Any commission owed to travel agents will be paid on the stay interrupted by the hurricane.
Other expenses including, but not limited to, airfares, food and beverage, or chartered services are not included or covered by this guarantee.
The guarantee offered by Starwood Hotels and Resorts is subject to change at the discretion of the operator at any time without notice.
Guests holding confirmed and fully deposited reservations (and are within the non-refundable deposit window) that are unable to travel to the resort due to a hurricane* closing the airport or The Westin St. John Resort & Villas will be given the option of a full refund or a one room category upgrade, based on space availability, on their next visit to The Westin St. John Resort & Villas within one calendar year.
*A hurricane is defined/validated by the National Hurricane Center, typically a tropical cyclone in which the maximum sustained surface wind is 74 mph (64 knots) or greater."


----------



## NerdAlert

*Pool Villa Renovations (6/14/11 Flag Day)*

Building 44 is totally shut down and surrounded by privacy fence. Roof is just about all off. Also, looks like all windows and doors are being replaced. Seems like sliders instead of the french doors going out to the pool.  Appears that all the cedar will go (roof and walls), and the walls will be stucco and the soffit will be white aluminum. No roofing on yet, but probably will be silver colored standing seam to match the Hillsides. Also, adding some sort of trench along walkways for drainage. Work progressing very fast--7 days a week, long hours, big crew. Workers are also very courteous. We don't really mind the noise, we see our unit getting improved. (Can't wait 'til next year!) 
At the owners meeting, it was said 44 to be done first week of July. Then bldg 43 next, then 41 and 42 (order??) then up to the two pools on the hillside. They said all the Pool Villas are to be done by Thanksgiving. We'll see. Can add pix if anyone wants to see.


----------



## klatkiew

Thanks so much for the info.   We are in 4413. Can't wait to see the improvements!  Would love to see some pics.


----------



## tomandrobin

DnR

I was away when you posted the update for WSJ and just today read the update. 

Is the online directory and bulletin board just for VG owners, or are BV owners going to be included? As a BV owner, we didn't receive any kind of letter like the VG owners relieved. 

Tom


----------



## pharmgirl

HOORAY!!!!!!

Just exchanged our Maui week for week of Feb 18 next year.  I have never exchanged before and followed advice to call a few minutes before 9 am
Thanks to all
Rep was very helpful and told me I got the last 2 BR, there were 2 available and one went quicker


----------



## jerseygirl

That's wonderful -- President's Week no less!


----------



## pharmgirl

jerseygirl said:


> That's wonderful -- President's Week no less!



Hi

I'm Jerseypharmgirl on most sites!  Now looking for week before, probably in S time St Thomas - flights to USVI are not bad

We have sailed in BVI many times and looking forward to a week on land and with our 5 yr old grandson

WOO HOO again!!


----------



## tomandrobin

pharmgirl said:


> HOORAY!!!!!!
> 
> Just exchanged our Maui week for week of Feb 18 next year.  I have never exchanged before and followed advice to call a few minutes before 9 am
> Thanks to all
> Rep was very helpful and told me I got the last 2 BR, there were 2 available and one went quicker




That is fantastic!! 

Never been to WSJ in the winter, but I can not imagine it being a bad time to visit.....especially coming from NJ.


----------



## tomandrobin

pharmgirl said:


> Now looking for week before, probably in S time St Thomas - flights to USVI are not bad



Flights from Newark are very reasonable.


----------



## WildJohn

*Going to St. John on President's Week*

My suggestion to those planning to go to St. John on President's Week.  I've been there that week and the weather was great.  This was during a week that we got over a foot of snow in Northern NJ.  However, there are no bargains on flights unless you book *very* early.  President's Week is not one of the most heavily travelled periods to the Carribean.  It is *the* most heavily travelled week.  Look at your airline options now.  Besides Continental, you may want to consider American (either from Newark via Miami or direct from JFK).  You may even want to check out US Air which flies direct from Philly.  Besides checking individual airline sites, you might want to check Travelocity, Expedia, and other discount sites as well. 

Good luck on not paying too much for airfare!!

John


----------



## pharmgirl

thanks for the airline suggestion
we will be going the week before and usually use hotel points to stay a day or 2  earlier and after our weeks end. So usually travel not on weekends and that makes flights easier

Yes, St thomas airport is busy, we have most often flown American or Continental to PR, then on to Beef island for the BVIs.  

I am a consultant and usually need to use computer or have a telcon a few times.  Hope internet is reasonable although not anticipating great access


----------



## jerseygirl

pharmgirl said:


> I am a consultant and usually need to use computer or have a telcon a few times.  Hope internet is reasonable although not anticipating great access



WSJ does not have consistent wireless service (I can't remember one trip where it wasn't down more often than not).  Wired service is better (was stable this year), but inconvenient.   I was able to thread the cable through the pass through kitchen window and pull laptop out to patio.  Have not tried packing a router -- may try that next year.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Consistent and STJ should not be used in the same sentence - unless 'not' is also used.

Stuart sez Hi to you and Katy... and to W5* as well (and that I need to meet you in person)


----------



## jerseygirl

David -- Tell Stu we said hello.  Hope you and Robin are having a great time.  Don't the buildings look great?  So sorry I never got a picture posted!!


----------



## WildJohn

*JetBlue to begin service to St Thomas*

Hi all,

For those of you who like to fly JetBlue, service to St. Thomas and St. Croix will begin on December 15, 2011.  They will have a direct flight from Boston.  Anyone on the West Coast can fly there via Boston.  I personally like the ability to check one suitcase at no cost and the free live TV with 35 channels at every seat.  

BTW, people on the East coast can fly to St Thomas via Boston or San Juan.  Some of the flights between St Thomas and San Juan are still with Cape Air.  However, several are with JetBlue.  For the 15 minute flight, who cares.  You can do your complete booking through JetBlue.

John


----------



## mpc5473

*Westin Timeshare*

We are looking to buy a timeshare for the last week of march (week 12 or 13 depending on the arrival day, i think). Any suggestions on how/where to find the best deal?

thanks
mike


----------



## jerseygirl

mpc5473 said:


> We are looking to buy a timeshare for the last week of march (week 12 or 13 depending on the arrival day, i think). Any suggestions on how/where to find the best deal?
> 
> thanks
> mike



Redweek, myresortnetwork

Also, this company on the island has a lot of listings:  

http://www.stjohnproperties.com/fractional.html

Don't be afraid to offer less than someone is asking.  Here's a recent ebay listing that reflects an open market sale:  

http://cgi.ebay.com/196K-STAROPTION...00563513476?pt=Timeshares&hash=item45fafb4084


----------



## DavidnRobin

A Holiday Homes handout had a listing/sold prices for WSJ VG weeks from Jan to Oct '10


----------



## DavidnRobin

In case you missed it in the other thread - link to video of Free Cycle Shed at WSJ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK-Vd-LQTxM

The Free Cycle Shed is great and should be at other SVO resorts (if maintained)


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Property Tax Reminder*

Virgin Grand Villas-2007 USVI Property Tax 

Dear Virgin Grand Villas Owner, 
This is a courtesy email to inform you that the 2007 USVI property tax bills were due on May 15th and are deemed delinquent if not paid by July 15th. Interest in the amount of 1% monthly will be assessed starting August 15th. If you have not yet received your 2007 property tax bill, we urge you to contact the Tax Office at 340.776.6737 to obtain a reprint of your tax bill. You may click here (http://public.usvi.cavucorp.com/) to search the data base to determine the amount of tax due, though please be aware that the Tax Office cannot accept payments online.

We also recommend the following important steps when making your payment:

Make your check payable to the Government of the United States Virgin Islands. 
Include the Parcel Number on your check along with a copy of your tax bill(s). 
Request a paid receipt and include a stamped self-addressed return envelope. We suggest you permanently retain your paid receipts in case of future inquiries from the Tax Office. 
Remit your check to: Office of the Lieutenant Governor, Property Tax Collection Division, P.O. Box 447, Cruz Bay, St. John, Virgin Islands, 00831-0447 via certified or registered mail and with a return receipt requested. 
Additional information may be found at the following web sites:

http://ltg.gov.vi/real-property-tax-system.html 
http://ltg.gov.vi/tax-accessor-frequently-asked-questions.html 

Sincerely, 


SVO Management, Inc.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Sorry if anyone here is trying to bid and win on this. I don't mean to intefere, but  .............. anyone seen this ?  
http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-St-John-Resort-Villas-/180686065888?pt=Timeshares&hash=item2a11ba90e0



I think that they may have the MFs off "a tad". 

-Item Description-

Buy Week 32 &

 Get Unit/Week  (33) FREE!!!!





Resort Name: Westin St. John Resort & Villas

Location: St. John, U.S. Virgin Islands



Unit/Week:  3122/32 - (For Deeding Purposes Only)

Unit Size:  1-Bedroom/2-Bath (Sleeps 4)

Usage: Bi -Annually beginning 2012 

(Floating Weeks 21-42; Gold Plus Season)

Maintenance Fees:  $1100.44/unit (Including Taxes)

Trading Company:  Interval International - Premier/Five Star Resort


----------



## jdds

Beaglemom3 said:


> Sorry if anyone here is trying to bid and win on this. I don't mean to intefere, but  .............. anyone seen this ?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-St-John-Resort-Villas-/180686065888?pt=Timeshares&hash=item2a11ba90e0
> 
> 
> 
> I think that they may have the MFs off "a tad".
> 
> -Item Description-
> 
> Buy Week 32 &
> 
> Get Unit/Week  (33) FREE!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Resort Name: Westin St. John Resort & Villas
> 
> Location: St. John, U.S. Virgin Islands
> 
> 
> 
> Unit/Week:  3122/32 - (For Deeding Purposes Only)
> 
> Unit Size:  1-Bedroom/2-Bath (Sleeps 4)
> 
> Usage: Bi -Annually beginning 2012
> 
> (Floating Weeks 21-42; Gold Plus Season)
> 
> Maintenance Fees:  $1100.44/unit (Including Taxes)
> 
> Trading Company:  Interval International - Premier/Five Star Resort



I thought that too, but it is every other year and if you look below, they say that it's $1100 poer unit. I was eyeing it up because my unit is on auction right now as well and my MFs are $1700 per year for an annual studio! But, if it's EOY, $2200 total for the unit wouold make sense since you have to pay yearly even though you only get to use it every other.


----------



## Beaglemom3

The bid, so far is/was $82.00+ with a long way to go.

This should be interesting.


----------



## jdds

If you are going for it, good luck!  I personally am trying to pair down my MFs


----------



## Beaglemom3

jdds said:


> If you are going for it, good luck!  I personally am trying to pair down my MFs



  Ooooooh, soooooo tempting, but you said it - MFs !

  Lovely to look at, great to own, painful in paying those MFs.


----------



## ekinggill

eom          eom


----------



## WildJohn

*Real Estate Taxes too*



Beaglemom3 said:


> Ooooooh, soooooo tempting, but you said it - MFs !
> 
> Lovely to look at, great to own, painful in paying those MFs.




*Don't forget the real estate taxes on top of those MF's!!*


----------



## Beaglemom3

WildJohn said:


> *Don't forget the real estate taxes on top of those MF's!!*




  Yes. I just paid the 2007 taxes of $127.45, however, I bought it in 2008.
  It's an interesting system they have there.
  When I contacted the title company, they were very philosophical about it and said that this is the way it's always been and when I sell it, the buyer will end up paying some of my owed R.E. taxes.

  Life in the islands..........


----------



## jdds

WildJohn said:


> *Don't forget the real estate taxes on top of those MF's!!*



Oh, the taxes. LOL I called down there about the 2007 taxes and they said they don't see me owing until 2009! So, when do you think the 2009 taxes will come due?


----------



## DavidnRobin

Taxes - it has been that way in the islands for years - BUT - it is going to change - and quickly (well... quick for island-time)

2007 taxes are due - 2008 taxes will be due soon - with 2009-2011 to follow (expect up to a 2x increase for 2010 - hopefully <2x - time will tell).

If you have questions about previous/current taxes - call with your parcel # (they actually answer their phone...)  and ask - remember that you are speaking to an island person (do not demand and adapt...) that works in a USVI Gov't organization.

One advantage of WSJ-BV is that the property taxes are substaintially lower because of how they are set-up.  I tried to get an a clear answer on this (failed), but something to do with how the land/building have different tax rates (assessed value) due to BV previously being a hotel (perhaps?)


----------



## Beaglemom3

DavidnRobin said:
			
		

> "and ask - remember that you are speaking to an island person (do not demand and adapt...) that works in a USVI Gov't organization".




Good point on island politeness. Sometimes we are so busy getting to the point in order to save both sides time, that we forget the little pleasantries that are the norm in other cultures. This is very true for Barbados, too .


----------



## DavidnRobin

Beaglemom3 said:


> Good point on island politeness. Sometimes we are so busy getting to the point in order to save both sides time, that we forget the little pleasantries that are the norm in other cultures. This is very true for Barbados, too .



plus - the accent can be strong which can be challenging over the phone (vs F2F).

btw - all the info on current and prior taxes is on-line - you just need your parcel number (or you can search by name, but that has downside - ie - one of mine has my 1st name as my middle name... arg) - and be able to interpret the interface. This is essentially what the person on the phone is doing.


----------



## clsmit

*Dumb Question*

Are Virgin Grand, Hillside, Pool Villas, and buildings 41-44 all the same thing? Thanks.


----------



## jarta

Buildings 41-44 contain the 3-br pool villas.  The 3-br pool villas are on a flat piece of ground between the resort proper and the hills overlooking the resort.  Buildings 41 and 42 are older than Buildings 43 and 44.  In general, Buildings 41 and 42 have 1 shared bath for the 2 bedrooms on the 2nd floor.  In general, each of the 2 bedrooms on the 2nd floor of Buildings 43 and 44 has its own bathroom.  There are other, minor differences in construction between the older Buildings 41 and 42 and the newer Buildings 43 and 44.

Virgin Grand (VG) or Hillside refers to the 3-br pool villas *and* the rest of the Phase I units.  All Phase I WSJ units are mandatory SVN units.  Like Harborside, all of Phase I at WSJ was sold as fixed week units.

The rest of the Phase I units are perched on the hills overlooking the resort.  They are in Buildings 31-34.  They are studios, 1-brs and 2-br units.

Phase II's newer units at WSJ are called Upper Hillside or, more frequently, Bay Vista (BV).  All Phase II units are voluntary SVN units.  They are all 2-br and 3-br units.  Almost all are float weeks.  Phase II units are in Buildings 24-27 of the resort map llinked below.

http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif

There are no lockoff units at WSJ.  I consider that a drawback to owning at WSJ.  There are so many good things about WSJ.  But, flexibility of use of your week is not one of them.   ...   eom


----------



## jdds

jarta said:


> Buildings 41-44 contain the 3-br pool villas.  The 3-br pool villas are on a flat piece of ground between the resort proper and the hills overlooking the resort.  Buildings 41 and 42 are older than Buildings 43 and 44.  In general, Buildings 41 and 42 have 1 shared bath for the 2 bedrooms on the 2nd floor.  In general, each of the 2 bedrooms on the 2nd floor of Buildings 43 and 44 has its own bathroom.  There are other, minor differences in construction between the older Buildings 41 and 42 and the newer Buildings 43 and 44.
> 
> Virgin Grand (VG) or Hillside refers to the 3-br pool villas *and* the rest of the Phase I units.  All Phase I WSJ units are mandatory SVN units.  Like Harborside, all of Phase I at WSJ was sold as fixed week units.
> 
> The rest of the Phase I units are perched on the hills overlooking the resort.  They are in Buildings 31-34.  They are studios, 1-brs and 2-br units.
> 
> Phase II's newer units at WSJ are called Upper Hillside or, more frequently, Bay Vista (BV).  All Phase II units are voluntary SVN units.  They are all 2-br and 3-br units.  Almost all are float weeks.  Phase II units are in Buildings 24-27 of the resort map llinked below.
> 
> http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif
> 
> There are no lockoff units at WSJ.  I consider that a drawback to owning at WSJ.  *There are so many good things about WSJ.  But, flexibility of use of your week is not one of them.*   ...   eom



Could not agree with this more. I learned that the hard way. I purchased at WSJ to actually go to WSJ every year. Turned out that getting to WSJ every year was not really doable for me, especially during the week I purchased. I tried to be flexible and get in on other weeks, or for shorter stays, and that was a no-go. One good thing that came out of my WSJ unit is that I definitely know the SVN SO trade system well. I have gotten a lot of use out of my SOs and have really made them work for me! I do consider WSJ to be one of the better SVN properties, though. I personally think St. John and the surrounding islands are gorgeous.


----------



## Westin5Star

*Casey Anthony in the Virgin Islands?*

http://newsrace.com/2011/07/19/where-is-casey-anthony-the-british-virgin-islands/


----------



## DavidnRobin

If you want flexibility for WSJ - the VG phase (Hillside) is not recommended.

I never heard of the BV phase being called 'Upper Hillside'.  They are not entirely float - they are being sold as both fixed and float - with no more than 50% being sold as fixed (iirc).  The purpose was to overcome reservation and flexibility issues that exist for the VG phase.


----------



## jarta

David,   ...   "I never heard of the BV phase being called 'Upper Hillside'."

Please look at the resort map I linked in my last post.  Maybe you never noticed it.  However, Bay Vista (BV) is much more common.

You can "fix" a "float" week at BV or any Starwood resort that sells float weeks.  All it takes is more money.  But, in most cases, why bother to lock in a week - except for weeks 7 (Presidents), 47 (Thanksgiving), 51 and 52    ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

I see said the blindman.  Looks like they wanted to differentiate the lower buildings (lower hillside) and higher buildings (upper hillside) - so I guess that would make ours upper-upper hillside - lol

Of course - fixed units can be purchased - except that WSJ-VG is essentially all fixed, and you can't pay to float (or maybe you can).  Whereas, with BV they offer float VOIs - and of course fixed, but limited to 50% (if I believe what sales told me...).


----------



## clsmit

Thanks for the detailed responses! It's confusing when SVO even calls the units by different names.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*2008 Property Taxes for WSJ-VG*

2008 Property Tax bills for WSJ-VG are being sent out.
Due: Aug. 20
Penalty Fee if not paid Jan. 20, 2012

http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/local-news/2011/07/20/2008-property-tax-bills-going-out


----------



## DavidnRobin

*TS Emily*

http://www.stormcarib.com/

normal unstable weather pattern begins - looks as if they are loaded up coming across the Atlantic


----------



## ekinggill

*WSJ Trip Report*

Recently returned from our Week 32 10th anniversary trip.  Layla and I plus 9 friends.  Great time all around.

Highlights:

Villas
-Renovations look great.  We have a 1BR in building 34 and they really did a nice job.  One exception:  the guys who put the brown-dirt-colored industrial deck paint on our patio tracked it right into the villa.  Permanenant dirty shoe prints on the tile.

-Had two sets of friends rent separate 2BR villas in building 33, which also already has the exterior done.  Both loved it.

-Other friends had a 3BR pool villa in building 41 which was not yet remodeled.  It was my first time in one...pretty nice but I would miss the view from the top of the hill

Improvements
-FreeCycle was great.  Got beach chairs, dish liquid, some canned goods.  There were lots of beach toys and bug repellent.  I left chairs (which were snapped up before I even made it inside), the detergent, some soft drinks, tennis balls, and a box full of half full liquor bottles.

-The grills at the building 33/34 pools are in horrible shape.  Saw flames shoot out and singe the hair of the arm of someone trying to light it.  Good to see the recent e-mail that the HOA is working on fixing this isssue.

-New surface on the tennis courts is awesome.  They did a great job.  If it wasn't too hot to play more than a couple games, it would be even better.

Staff
-Service levels, especially from the front desk staff, are as bad as ever.  Way undermanned on check in/check out days.  We had 5 keys to our villa all stop working on Friday while we were out.  40 minute ordeal to get new ones.

Travel
-Flew into San Juan on Friday, spent the night at a Hampton near the airport, and flew over to STT in the morning.  I like this approach as it gave us an additional day of vacation than our past approach of flying all the way from Dallas on our St. John check in day.
-On the advice of @DavidnRobin I rented a car at STT and took the car ferry over to St. John.  This was a game changer.  We shopped in St. Thomas, got over to St. John on our schedule, made several trips to the market during the week, and most importantly, saw so much more of the island than ever before.

Activities
-I arranged for sailing to Jost Van Dyke for the group, 5 on Tuesday and 6 on Wednesday on the sail boat Dream Weaver.  (www.stjohnusvisailingcharters.com)  We all had the best time ever!  She asked the night before what we wanted to drink on board and all of our brands were there.  Her first mate mixed drinks for everyone and made sure we wanted for nothing.  The ride was smooth and easy.   We lunched at the Soggy Dollar Bar (don't miss the onion rings).  On the way back she stopped the boat in a narrow channel between two island so we could snorkle.  This was my first time snorkling on a reef that rarely sees people and it was breathtaking.  I even got some free sailing lessons on the way back.  ($125 a person + tip + BVI customs)

-Thursday I chartered a private Baths / Caves / Willie T's trip through Cruz Bay Water Sports.  There was more than enough space for 11 on The Blast.  There were really professional, got us in and out of customs quickly, and a great time was had by all.  Plenty of soft drinks, beer, and mixed drinks, muffins and fruit for breakfast, and a large sandwich plate for lunch.  Price per person was about the same as if you joined one of the regular trips that have 30 or 40 strangers on board.  It was really convenient to be able to board a private charter right there on the Westin pier.

Thanks to all of the Tuggers who posted tips for an enjoyable villa trip.  The composite of all of your ideas helped make this trip, by far, the best of our three to St. John.


----------



## DavidnRobin

thanks for the trip report - glad to see someone else other than me offering observations of WSJ and STJ.

Yes - the BBQs between B33-34 are safety hazards - I often end up lighting the BBQs for people (while wet and staying as far back as possible).

I haven't really ever had issues with the Front Desk or Maintenance - although I have had our keys become deactivated - which is really a drag after returning from all-day at a beach - wet/sandy and tired.

Don't you have tile floors off of your balcony?  We do (in 3410) - I would suspect that the stain will come off those tiles.

I would like to see a rug placed under the dining room table and chairs - I could hear the chairs being moved (scraped) against the tile floors, and have never in previous years ever heard anything from our next door neighbors.

Glad to hear that the STT car rental worked out for you.  I keep saying that it is not a big deal to rent on STT and take the car barge over - so easy that most who plan to rent a vehicle should consider this.  I will always rent from Amalie car rental - their service and great vehicles make it worth the extra $50/week.


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Glad to hear that the STT car rental worked out for you.  I keep saying that it is not a big deal to rent on STT and take the car barge over - so easy that most who plan to rent a vehicle should consider this.  I will always rent from Amalie car rental - their service and great vehicles make it worth the extra $50/week.



Trying to convince my Robin on STT car rental. She is too spooked about breaking down on STJ and having to paying towing back to STT. Robin still rather pay the $$$ pp to ride the Westin Ferry. We have 6 going next July.....I rather spend the money elsewhere.


----------



## ekinggill

Yes the stained tiles are right inside the patio.  I had housekeeping come up because I thought it was actually dirt.  They told me they tried everything they had to get the stains off.  They said it should be fixed before I come back next year, but I am not holding my breath.

Tom>>>  My wife was a little nervous about the car rental as well.  It was so simple.  We rented from AVIS and they have a roadside assist option for STJ.  For $30 per week it covers running out of gas, flat tires, even lost keys.  (The charge if you don't get the coverage and lose your keys is more than the cost of a week's rental.)  The only issue with going this way is if you arrive late.  The last car ferry is at 6 PM.  We had friend with a flight delay who had reserved a car.  They landed at 5:30.  They just cancelled their car and took the Westin Breeze and rented for a couple days on STJ.  They also could have taken the passenger ferry which runs until mid-night.  The driving on the left with a US car was not hard to adjust to.


----------



## ekinggill

*Slow Processing of Tax Payment*

Just a heads up.  I recently got my 2008 tax bill which showed my 2007 taxes as delinquent.  I called and told them I mailed my payment back in July with a return receipt, which I got showing they received my payment on July 17 and that to date, my card hasn't charged.

They told me they had someone quit just as the workload dramatically went up from the back tax bills and that one person was handling all of the payments.  They also said it could be months before they are caught up.


----------



## okwiater

Re: renting a car on St. Thomas and worried about breaking down on St. John...

I called AAA and they confirmed that I would be covered for roadside assistance in my rental car on St. John or anywhere in the US Virgin Islands.


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> Trying to convince my Robin on STT car rental. She is too spooked about breaking down on STJ and having to paying towing back to STT. Robin still rather pay the $$$ pp to ride the Westin Ferry. We have 6 going next July.....I rather spend the money elsewhere.



Amalie Rental vehicles are almost brand new, and they always refresh their fleet (our 4dr Jeep Wrangler was <8 months old - looked brand new). The real issue is if you get into an accident, and that issue exists for any vehical rental.

below is a photo of our 4dr Jeep Wrangler (from Amalie) on the car barge - the red one


----------



## DavidnRobin

okwiater said:


> Re: renting a car on St. Thomas and worried about breaking down on St. John...
> 
> I called AAA and they confirmed that I would be covered for roadside assistance in my rental car on St. John or anywhere in the US Virgin Islands.



AAA roadside assistance in STJ? I am very surprised to hear this - does STJ even have AAA?  Again - it really is a non-issue compared to getting into an accident (considering any car that has been on the islands for a while are dinged up).  This goes to making sure your rental is as in good shape as possible - this is why I will always be renting from Amalie - and paying the extra $50/week (or so...).


----------



## DavidnRobin

ekinggill said:


> Just a heads up.  I recently got my 2008 tax bill which showed my 2007 taxes as delinquent.  I called and told them I mailed my payment back in July with a return receipt, which I got showing they received my payment on July 17 and that to date, my card hasn't charged.
> 
> They told me they had someone quit just as the workload dramatically went up from the back tax bills and that one person was handling all of the payments.  They also said it could be months before they are caught up.



My checks cleared the bank about 2 weeks after I sent them - I did not use a return receipt as my cancelled/cleared checks are proof of payment.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Road to Lameshur Bay*

for those curious about driving on STJ (and why 4WD is recommended)

Road to Lameshur Bay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sviOZLCqdcA

also - view from Bordeaux Overlook to Coral Bay (shows our 4WD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOd-tJCvGOE

change video settings to 720p...


----------



## okwiater

DavidnRobin said:


> AAA roadside assistance in STJ? I am very surprised to hear this - does STJ even have AAA?  Again - it really is a non-issue compared to getting into an accident (considering any car that has been on the islands for a while are dinged up).  This goes to making sure your rental is as in good shape as possible - this is why I will always be renting from Amalie - and paying the extra $50/week (or so...).


I have no idea if STJ has an AAA facility; however, there may be contracted service providers on the island. Or, they may be on St. Thomas in which case I'd assume they'd take the boat over to rescue you.

I, too, was surprised to hear that AAA covers in the USVI; however, I asked the question 3 different ways and from 2 different AAA agents, both of whom put me on hold for a few minutes and came back on the line to confirm that YES, I would be covered anywhere in the USVI.

Nice perk right?


----------



## okwiater

Incidentally, my wife and I are staying at WSJ for the first time this week. We left the east coast yesterday just hours before they started shutting down the airports for Hurricane Irene. Lucky timing!

Happy enough just to be here, we checked in to our 44,000 StarOption 1-bedroom, and ended up receiving a 2-br Hillside townhouse instead! Very nice unit; although it seems a waste for just the 2 of us to be sharing this giant place.

Looking forward to starting to explore the island a bit today...


----------



## LisaRex

okwiater said:


> Happy enough just to be here, we checked in to our 44,000 StarOption 1-bedroom, and ended up receiving a 2-br Hillside townhouse instead! Very nice unit; although it seems a waste for just the 2 of us to be sharing this giant place.



We shared it with another couple and thought it was a waste for just the four of us!


----------



## bobpark56

DavidnRobin said:


> AAA roadside assistance in STJ? I am very surprised to hear this - does STJ even have AAA?  Again - it really is a non-issue compared to getting into an accident (considering any car that has been on the islands for a while are dinged up).  This goes to making sure your rental is as in good shape as possible - this is why I will always be renting from Amalie - and paying the extra $50/week (or so...).



I just queried our AAA East Central office: "Is AAA roadside assistance available on St John, US Virgin Islands?"

Their reply: "Thank you for your email, unfortunately we do not have an office in the Virgin Islands."

I'm not sure who they mean by "we."


----------



## DavidnRobin

bobpark56 said:


> I just queried our AAA East Central office: "Is AAA roadside assistance available on St John, US Virgin Islands?"
> 
> Their reply: "Thank you for your email, unfortunately we do not have an office in the Virgin Islands."
> 
> I'm not sure who they mean by "we."



Having never seen a AAA sign on a tow truck in the STJ (only having seen maybe 2 in a 6 year period during our 2 weeks) - it doesn't surprise me.  It may be that they have a contract with someone, but you can be assured that the AAA contract would be held by someone in STT and not STJ - and they would take the tow truck on the car barge anyway (which is where I have seen a tow truck).

Regardless - the issue is not about breaking down unless you get a trashed vehicle (and why I will rent from Amalie now on), but the real issue in regards to needing a tow would be an accident which IMO is much more likely.  If you are in an accident that needs a tow (recall that the speed limit on STJ is 20mph) you are going to be screwed whether you rented on STJ or STT. Mostly likely - you will never need a tow on STJ - or if you do, it will need to be something that you adapt to anyway - since it is likely that the tow truck is coming from STT.

So... if having to get towed is truly a concern - then I would recommend not renting a vehicle at all - and use the taxi-buses instead.  For us - we are renting in STT and taking the car barge over.  I wish I had done this years' earlier.  If you are going to rent a vehicle the entire time, then rent in STT and take car barge - it is too easy not to.  lesson learned...

IMO - to not rent on STT because you may break down on STJ is a non-issue in the scheme of things - balanced against covenience and cost - and all the other things that could go wrong on a vacation  (like needing emergency dental work on STJ, or getting stranded due to airline issues {2x} -  both have actually happened to me)


----------



## Politico

David--

We arrive at WSJ on Friday. Are you aware that Amalie does not rent vehicles during the low season?  We tried, but they told us they are closed in September.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Politico said:


> David--
> 
> We arrive at WSJ on Friday. Are you aware that Amalie does not rent vehicles during the low season?  We tried, but they told us they are closed in September.



No - I wasn't aware.  That is too bad - I guess they figure it is not worth it to them to stay open in Sept.  You could ask them for an alternative recommendation.  I did rent from Dependable, but was disappointed with our vehicle, but perhaps the larger ones are better (we got a 2Dr Jeep Wrangler soft top that was a mess).  People alse use Budget and Discount - I know nothing about them, but you can read the BBS on Vinow.com (or post).

Have a good trip - watch out for TS Katia - 5-day forecast has it going north of the USVI, but...


----------



## Politico

*Katia*



DavidnRobin said:


> No - I wasn't aware.  That is too bad - I guess they figure it is not worth it to them to stay open in Sept.  You could ask them for an alternative recommendation.  I did rent from Dependable, but was disappointed with our vehicle, but perhaps the larger ones are better (we got a 2Dr Jeep Wrangler soft top that was a mess).  People alse use Budget and Discount - I know nothing about them, but you can read the BBS on Vinow.com (or post).
> 
> Have a good trip - watch out for TS Katia - 5-day forecast has it going north of the USVI, but...



Alas, we have been monitoring KATIA since she was a wave off the horn of Africa, then Tropical Depression 12 deep in the Atlantic, now Tropical Storm KATIA approaching the Caribbean, and likely Hurrince KATIA which hopefully will make a dramatic North-East turn out to sea. Oh, we are watching


----------



## jdds

*2012 reserve*

I apologize if this has been asked, but a search did not yield any answers. There may not even be an answer yet! Does anyone have an idea of what the replacement reserve is looking like for 2012? I own in Bldg 32 and was curious if they are due to go down yet or not until 2013.


----------



## jerseygirl

2011 was supposed to be the last year, but they deferred a small amount from 2011 to 2012.  They're also planning on starting a reserve in 2012 to cover the insurance deductible.  

It will be interesting to see the new amount ...


----------



## Politico

*Budget*

We used Budget to rent our 4 door Jeep Wrangler and had no issues.  Rented at STT, drove to Red Hook (after a stop at Cost-U-Less), and took the ferry to STJ from 9/2 - 9/9. Great trip.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*We have a Winner!*

OK - so I was the only one who took a guess on the 2012 WSJ VG MFs...
I forgot which post, but recall my guess for my MFs (2Bd TH) was $2400. Turns out that I was only $49 off...

Just received a mailing from WSJ HOA BOD and it lists the MF as $2449 - too bad no one else had the guts to make a prediction - so I win the prize! 

btw - this MF includes a RR fee of $451, and this is the proposed budget - not actual

Studio = $1469
1Bd = $1959
2Bd TH = $2449
2Bd Prem = $2939
3Bd = $2939

This is an 8.46% decrease from 2011, and 2011 was a 6.65% decrease from 2010 - color me happy...

It also appears that SVN fees will once again go up - $125 for 1st and $158 for multi-week


----------



## jdds

DavidnRobin said:


> OK - so I was the only one who took a guess on the 2012 WSJ VG MFs...
> I forgot which post, but recall my guess for my MFs (2Bd TH) was $2400. Turns out that I was only $49 off...
> 
> Just received a mailing from WSJ HOA BOD and it lists the MF as $2449 - too bad no one else had the guts to make a prediction - so I win the prize!
> 
> btw - this MF includes a RR fee of $451, and this is the proposed budget - not actual
> 
> Studio = $1469
> 1Bd = $1959
> 2Bd TH = $2449
> 2Bd Prem = $2939
> 3Bd = $2939
> 
> This is an 8.46% decrease from 2011, and 2011 was a 6.65% decrease from 2010 - color me happy...
> 
> It also appears that SVN fees will once again go up - $125 for 1st and $158 for multi-week



I was so happy when I saw this in the mail today. Could they ever get the MFs back down to what they were when I bought in 2005? :hysterical:


----------



## clsmit

Got a call from Starwood yesterday. They have a week for sale next to my week and wanted to know if I wanted to buy it. Seriously, it was nice of them to call me to see if I wanted it (I said no-- shhh, don't tell the DH  ). Hope it goes to a good home.


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> This is an 8.46% decrease from 2011, and 2011 was a 6.65% decrease from 2010 - color me happy...
> 
> It also appears that SVN fees will once again go up - $125 for 1st and $158 for multi-week




That is good to read....hopefully there is a trickle down effect to Bay Vista units.


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> That is good to read....hopefully there is a trickle down effect to Bay Vista units.



One can only hope, but somehow doubt it - especially when subsidy ends and comes close to selling out.

The lack of 'good job' to the WSJ VG HOA BOD for the 2 back to back reductions in MFs is interesting - I am pretty sure that if the old 'Owner' board members were in control this reduction wouldn't have occurred.  

Looks like I won't have to ship $100 to GeneNWendy...


----------



## WildJohn

*Trickle Down to Bay Vista*



tomandrobin said:


> That is good to read....hopefully there is a trickle down effect to Bay Vista units.



Tom, unfortunately for Bay Vista owners, I would have to agree with Dave.  All timeshares (not just Starwood) artificially keep the maintenance fees low during the selling period by having the developer kick in a subsidy to pay for a portion of them.  Once the selling period ends, fees *will* go up to some extent.  While we're seeing a decrease in fees over the last 2 years as Dave points out, it's largely due to the refurbishment project nearing completion.  Although they have gone down, as the owner board members mentioned to us in one of their letters, fees will never go back down to 2008 levels.  This is mainly due to the developer removing the subsidy for VGV between 2009 and 2010.  

There really should be a law that applies to all timeshares regarding the selling practices.  However, most buyers are at largely fault as well.  Supposedly 95% of all timeshares are sold at the initial sales pitch.  People can't seem to resist the quarter million Starpoints (in the case of Starwood) offered to people for buying on the spot.  If they treated this like any other real property purchase, they would take the information and bring it to their own attorney for review before making a commitment.

BTW, Tom you might want to check out the by-laws of Bay Vista.  I believe your board is composed solely of 3 Starwood employees.  I don't know if that will change at some point in time.  We at least have 2 owner representatives who are doing an outstanding job.  It's too bad we don't have majority control.  Perhaps that will change one day, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## okwiater

WildJohn said:


> Tom, unfortunately for Bay Vista owners, I would have to agree with Dave.  All timeshares (not just Starwood) artificially keep the maintenance fees low during the selling period by having the developer kick in a subsidy to pay for a portion of them.  Once the selling period ends, fees *will* go up to some extent.


When I was at WSJ last month, we asked at the owners update whether there was any developer subsidy for the Bay Vista phase, and they told us no. Of course, I would want this in writing if I were ready to purchase a unit, but the salesperson seemed to know exactly what I was referring to and answered the question confidently. Do you have information to the contrary?


----------



## WildJohn

*Regarding developer subsidy*



okwiater said:


> When I was at WSJ last month, we asked at the owners update whether there was any developer subsidy for the Bay Vista phase, and they told us no. Of course, I would want this in writing if I were ready to purchase a unit, but the salesperson seemed to know exactly what I was referring to and answered the question confidently. Do you have information to the contrary?



That doesn't surprise me.  The sales people are trained to lie through their teeth.  If you're an owner at Bay Vista, get a hold of the most recent financials and see for yourself.  I don't have specific evidence to the contrary other than the fact that every timeshare I know of (Starwood as well as every other timeshare company out there) keeps fees lower through a subsidy during the selling phase to be able to sell the units and then removes that subsidy when most units have been sold.


----------



## DavidnRobin

WildJohn said:


> That doesn't surprise me.  The sales people are trained to lie through their teeth.  If you're an owner at Bay Vista, get a hold of the most recent financials and see for yourself.  I don't have specific evidence to the contrary other than the fact that every timeshare I know of (Starwood as well as every other timeshare company out there) keeps fees lower through a subsidy during the selling phase to be able to sell the units and then removes that subsidy when most units have been sold.



Agree - get the most recent Annual Budget for WSJ-BV and look at the document listing revenues and expenses - the SVO subsidy will be listed there.

For WSJ-VG - SVO owns ~10% of the VOIs - they are unlikely to give up their majority on the HOA BOD.  I understand there was a discussion regarding a law suit around this (and the recent refurb) - but it has been very quiet on that front - no one from the 'Coalition' seems to post here anymore.  Either they do not want to show their hand - or no longer momentum to persue.


----------



## jerseygirl

The lawsuit is not quiet -- you've just been voted off the island!  

I don't think it's appropriate to share the lawsuit info on a public board, but I'd be happy to send it to you  -- just let me know.

Say  to Robin for me!


----------



## jarta

"The lawsuit is not quiet ..."

No, the long-rumored lawsuit is non-existent.  There is no lawsuit.  If there was a lawsuit the allegations would be public knowledge, not the private knowledge of the perpetually discontented.

In addition to Starwood benefitting, didn't all those other, earlier Hillside/VG owners benefit from the developer subsidy by having lower assessments for all those years it was in existence?  I would think they would be grateful for the subsidy as it un-naturally held their assessments down for years and years.  Naw!  Too much to ask.

The new, independent Hillside/VG board members never had a chance.  Within a month after their election, rumors were flying from those who supported their candidacies that the new members were not doing enough to lower assessments at Hillside/VG by keeping up the pressure on Starwood to cut costs.  Then came the floods last October.

It's a shame that WSJ is such a magical place and yet is so expensive to maintain.  Poor initial construction (complicated by years of structures sitting uncompleted), a desultory work force, hurricanes and floods and/or erosion from runoff and cheapskate owners who voted down very necessary repairs have all left their toll on those who own and share in expenses at Hillside/VG.  I think the HOA is trying.  However, even with a large developer subsidy, Hillside/VG was barely keeping its head above water.

BTW, for the 10% retained by the developer (now Starwood) the annual MF per unit week is the same as for anyone else who owns there and, very importantly, Starwood always pays the annual assessments on its retained unit weeks.   ...   eom


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## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> The lawsuit is not quiet -- you've just been voted off the island!
> 
> I don't think it's appropriate to share the lawsuit info on a public board, but I'd be happy to send it to you  -- just let me know.
> 
> Say  to Robin for me!



That is one island I do not care to visit...  

No need to send - I do not care because it is unlikely (IMO) to ever move forward - or if they move forward... well... good luck getting traction in the USVI or with the majority of Owners wearing rose-colored shades.  

Robin sez 'Hi' back.  We will likely not be going to STJ next June (breaking our 6 year streak), but both of us may have issues in going in 2012 (time-wise, not desire). It looks like we will only make WKORV next March. 
[Post edited - Smacking David on the hand - DeniseM    ]


----------



## jerseygirl

David -- Believe it or not, a staggering number of owners are participating.  I couldn't believe it when I received the latest packet.

I don't care about 90% of the issues (basically water under the bridge stuff).  I just want an owner-controlled board.  

We're having trouble with 2012 also ...... still trying to work things out ...


----------



## tomandrobin

jerseygirl said:


> David -- Believe it or not, a staggering number of owners are participating.  I couldn't believe it when I received the latest packet.



That is excellent news!


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> That is excellent news!



Hi Tom - Why is this excellent news?  How exactly are the Owners going to get an Owner controlled board?  From the opinions I have heard from some of the Owners - I am not sure this is necessarily a good thing...  I want the resort to be kept up - others were supposedly fine with letting it get run down - which makes me worry.

jarta - the subsidy was not huge (the numbers were listed to you a while back...)... however, the previous 'Owners' on the board were obviously not up for keeping ahead of things - and I agree with the general context of your response - but they are seriously moving forward - which appears (IMO) to be the few misleading the many - did I say IMO?  Does the HOA get to vote on whether we should sue ourselves?

wow - isnt it great to discuss things openly...
[Post edited - not nice to say bad things about biased and shady TUG advertising rules - DavinRobin]


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## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Hi Tom - Why is this excellent news?  How exactly are the Owners going to get an Owner controlled board?  From the opinions I have heard from some of the Owners - I am not sure this is necessarily a good thing...  I want the resort to be kept up - others were supposedly fine with letting it get run down - which makes me worry.




I meant good news that owners are actually have an interest and are involved. From your post, I am assuming this is not a good thing?


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> I meant good news that owners are actually have an interest and are involved. From your post, I am assuming this is not a good thing?



No - I was seriously asking about your opinion - it wasn't clear if your post was around the Owners being more connected - or the path-forward the coalition decided to take (or being pissed off at Phil and Bob for attempting a reasonable and balanced approach - since they afterall supposedly was the reason they were elected).

Of course I want the Owners consoladated {sp?} and I want WSJ HOA transparency and accountability.  You know how I feel about that - but I am also practical and certainly have no tolerance for focusing on the past which (from my encounter with a few coalition  'leaders') seems to somehow be their path forward to this objective. I am also in favor (and practice) of taking personal accountability for ones decisions and the resulting consequences, and not in favor of obstructionism as a path to resolution.
...but maybe that is just me as one of those CA tree-hugging hippie types...


----------



## jerseygirl

There is absolutely no bad mouthing of Phil and Bob in the current documentation.

Yes, one (or more) of the coalition leaders went off on Phil and Bob shortly after the election.  But, I haven't seen it since.  I don't think there's any reason to believe that Phil and Bob don't have the full support of the vast majority of the coalition.  Of course, I can only speak for myself, but they certainly have my full support.  

I think you would be pleased to see the direction it's taking David ... some of your assumptions might be based on early rants by certain "leaders."  From my perspective, the attorney has a good feel for what's realistic ...


----------



## DavidnRobin

Thanks jg - you are correct - my assumptions are from my experience. To be clear...  I did not say there was any bad mouthing of P&B in any documentation, or the Owners don't support P&B, but you are correct.  If they have your support - and why I was asking Tom - is because I respect both of your opinions (but not the opinions of some key people that have taken the cause to fight SVO) - so that goes along way for a legal simpleton like me.

My concerns remain however... Along the lines of... Be careful what you wish for - it may come true.

You stated yourself that 90% of the issues were 'water under the bridge' - and these were my concerns when I had interactions with the group.  I am sure I agree with most of what is in the package (whatever it is), but more about outcome and long-term security of OUR resort as I personally like being associated with Westin SVO properties (my bias).  I know there have been threads about disassociated resorts from SVO (re: W5*), but I am not sure the outcome would benefit the long-term stability.  Perhaps my views are wrong... If it comes to it - I hope so.

Thanks for the heads-up and input - I am sure I am not on anyone's XMAS list...


----------



## jerseygirl

You're on my Xmas list!  

Re water under the bridge stuff -- we agree.  Having said that, if a court of law were to determine that a Starwood controlled BOD took impermissable actions, etc., I'd like to see it remedied.  I, for one, am tired of corporate America taking advantage of the little guy!  If I still lived in Hoboken, I'd probably be down with the Hippies protesting Wall Street.  Of course, I'd then probably get fired, since I make my living on Wall Street!  

One big misconception -- the suit is NOT against the HOA.  (Of course, that doesn't mean Starwood won't figure out a way for all of us to pay for half of it, while some of us are paying, by choice, for the other half!  :hysterical: )  It's really a pretty simple matter of determining if certain current and past actions are/were permissable under USVI Condo Laws.  If they are, so be it.  If they're not, perhaps damages are owed, perhaps not.  But, if the net result is an owner-controlled board and full transparency, it's all good.  I don't see a downside, except for some money that is really just a very small drop in the great big bucket of expenses associated with owning at WSJ!


----------



## WildJohn

*Regarding suit*

Well said JG!!  When Starwood sent out the 2010 maintenance fees, it was quite a shock to us all.  The following sentence is a direct quote from them when I asked about the big increase.  This had to do with us picking up the maintenance fees for those that defaulted. 

*"Being a condominium, all Owners share the responsibility for ensuring that the Association meets these obligations.  As the economy improves and delinquencies eventually decline, allowances will be re-evaluated for a potential reduction.  However for now, we must all share in ensuring expenses are fully paid and uncollectible accounts provisioned."*

Effectively Starwood is admitting that VGV is a condominium.  Guess what? Under condo rules in most jurisdictions, one is responsible for the space between their four walls and a small % of common elements (ie HVAC, roofs, ground maintenance, security, etc).  They are *not* responsible for carrying the costs of those that default.  This is different than co-op law (common in Northern NJ and New York) where one doesn't own the space they live in but a % of ownership equivalent to that amount of space.  Under co-op law, Starwood might have justification in the quote above.  However, they clearly say "As a condominium"  It also makes sense that it be a condominium since everyone owns deeded, fixed weeks.

I believe that this attorney has a good approach, because condo law in USVI is pretty strict so I'm told.


----------



## jarta

WildJohn,   ...   "Guess what? Under condo rules in most jurisdictions, one is responsible for the space between their four walls and a small % of common elements (ie HVAC, roofs, ground maintenance, security, etc). *They are not responsible for carrying the costs of those that default*."

Guess what?  You are 100%, absolutely wrong.

If there is a shortfall in assessment payments, that shortfall may be allocated and recouped in the next budget by billing all the association's owners.  To do otherwise would be a violation of the fiduciary duty of the HOA to ensure that the association is on a solid financial footing.

Part of that fiduciary duty also includes the HOA board taking all necessary steps to collect delinquencies - by foreclosure if necessary.  However, while taking the steps to collect delinquencies, bills have to be paid and the HOA board has a duty to see that the proper amount of funds is available to meet ongoing needs.    ...   eom


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## Ken555

I don't own at WSJ, but I do own a condo and am on the board (unfortunately). We just voted recently to raise our monthly dues because of increasing costs and more defaults from other owners. And, we are having a special meeting Sunday to approve our legal teams recommendation on proceeding with foreclosure proceedings on a unit (which I don't think we have ever done before). Timeshares may be considered condos, but all owners are ultimately responsible for keeping the HOA solvent. You may be able to chase the other owners and recoup unpaid dues, but whatever those dues were to pay for needs to be paid and the other owners will need to make up the shortfall. I can't imagine it being any other way.


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## DavidnRobin

Wow - an real interesting discussion. That is fantastic...

Did the board take liberties with the refurbish outside of their 'rights' - from what I can tell - yes.

Was I and others happy with this 'illegal' result? Hell yes - recall that I and another 3410 owner offered to buy a new couch with our own money... The place was decaying fast.

Did it cost too much? No doubt...

Is this defined as water under the bridge? Most definitely 

Would an owner controlled board with 3 of 5 board members as owner reps be better? Most likely

5 of 5? Not so sure - and I would bet that it ain't going to happen and keep Westin name...

So what happens? someone owes the HOA $$$ - well that would have to be Starwood otherwise it will be us...

Will Starwood pay? Perhaps if there was something to after that would hold-up in court (given they have deep pockets) showing their woeful negligence ( or whatever it would be considered).

Thus the inherit problem (IMHO) is that the board at the time may have felt forced to somehow get the funds to refurbish the resort as to attempt keep the value of the resort - as that a good majority did vote yes - but no quorum achieved.

Should they have termed it differently? Handled it differently? allowed the replacement reserves to deplete? Failed to account for the economic downturn? Probably, but water under the bridge...


----------



## DavidnRobin

John - who would pay for the defaulted owners if not the HOA? Starwood? I am confused... Why are they responsible? They paid the MFs for the VOIs they own (~10%)

I do agree - and mentioned in this thread many years ago as to how much of the usage of those villas by SVO/SVN went back to the HOA? To me - that would be worth a lawsuit -I have always believed that is where we were/are screwed.

The increase in MFs starting in 2010 was to refurbish the resort - so it comes down to whether one was happy or not about the refurbish or the need?  I have stated on which side I am on in this regard...

It was very disconcerting to me to hear about how many were happy with the status quo - keep the MFs and let the resort effectively go to crap... Or sit around with their ****s in their hands debating about it...

The refurbished happened - it is relatively nice - and way too costly.  We are relatively happy... It got to competent members on the HOA to the conflict it created from the increase in MFs which included the increase from defaulting owners.

I would be happier with a resolution with Starwood support to get monies back to the HOA for VOIs that end up in SVOs hands vs essentially suing for something that was seriously needed IMO (and Robins...)


----------



## jerseygirl

DavidnRobin said:


> It was very disconcerting to me to hear about how many were happy with the status quo - keep the MFs and let the resort effectively go to crap... Or sit around with their ****s in their hands debating about it...



I'm not so sure I believe this to be true.  I think most owners wanted a refurbishment.  But, they wanted competitive bids, a full accounting of where previously collected $$ labeled "reserve fees" went, etc.  I think lack of transparency and the bait and switch from "special assessments require a vote" to "we can just add the $ into the annual budget" were the problem, not the refurbishment itself.  Was the bait and switch a legal move?   I don't know, but I'd certainly like to hear a VI judge's opinion on the issue.  Again, if it was, c'est la vie.  If it wasn't, hopefully it will make Starwood and other major developers think twice about following the rules in the future.

It's also a giant misconception to think this is the focus of the lawsuit.  It's not.  

David, I'm happy to send you copies of what I have.  You've stated you have no interest.  That's cool -- but, I don't think it's completely fair to speculate that it's a bad thing when clearly the underlying goals are owner rights and the increased value of WSJ.  You don't have to agree with the tactics, but the "little people' I've spoken to who are involved are looking past the sometimes irrational ranting/raving and just hope to define boundries.  Little people = majority owners.  Starwood = hired help.


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## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> I'm not so sure I believe this to be true.  I think most owners wanted a refurbishment.  But, they wanted competitive bids, a full accounting of where previously collected $$ labeled "reserve fees" went, etc.  I think lack of transparency and the bait and switch from "special assessments require a vote" to "we can just add the $ into the annual budget" were the problem, not the refurbishment itself.  Was the bait and switch a legal move?   I don't know, but I'd certainly like to hear a VI judge's opinion on the issue.  Again, if it was, c'est la vie.  If it wasn't, hopefully it will make Starwood and other major developers think twice about following the rules in the future.
> 
> It's also a giant misconception to think this is the focus of the lawsuit.  It's not.
> 
> David, I'm happy to send you copies of what I have.  You've stated you have no interest.  That's cool -- but, I don't think it's completely fair to speculate that it's a bad thing when clearly the underlying goals are owner rights and the increased value of WSJ.  You don't have to agree with the tactics, but the "little people' I've spoken to who are involved are looking past the sometimes irrational ranting/raving and just hope to define boundries.  Little people = majority owners.  Starwood = hired help.



I believe I said that most owners wanted the refurbish in previous posts - and that it was the disfunctional board (due to Starwood legacy of crappy communication databases - multiply for island time...) that screwed up - and I do not mean by not having a quorum (but in lack of process).  I am also not saying that owners are irrational - even those that are... people are entitled to their opinions - as I am with mine.

I realize that that is not the crux of the lawsuit- as I am no dummy (well... not quite true) and it is more of a fundamental issue (re: CCRs) where the past board activities potentially opens a window of opportunity for board control and accountability/transparency (always my goal)... and all without seeing the package...

My speculations/discussions are based on understanding the fallacies with the biased system that has been set-up - and how they could be attacked.  However, fundamentally (based on the broken system) the refurbish would have never happened (or would still be under discussion) - so I applaud them for getting it done in a sea of cats - regardless of the illegality (or kickbacks - hidden funds).  I know that may sound strange - especially considering that I am still amazed that Goldman Sachs executives are not in prison (or at least a public flogging...) instead of flying around in jets - you know... the job creators. As Colbert joked - the only reason it hasn't trickled down is because we haven't given them enough.  (told you I was a damn hippie anarchist).  Sorry - was trying to tie in the Wall Street protests - but I also would want you to lose your job.  

anyway... in agreement w/ jarta here - WSJ-VG was being run under-funded for years - regardless of the subsidy or not.  (paying the piper... so to speak)  This opinion is based on the MFs and experiences with my other SVO resorts - that are not in a place like STJ - were nature is constantly trying to take over.
Thanks for the offer - I think it wise for me not to get involved...yet.  I will get involved if I believe it has a negative impact (if it blossoms).  I will also give kudos with a successful outcome even if my position was opposite (I think you know that about me as you have seen both my light and dark sides...  ).  Perhaps - after December - but in the meantime I will try and not stir the pot.  but, As the saying goes... sunlight is the best disinfectant.

okay... enough... - I hope you can tell where I am serious and being my normal sarcastic self w/o all the emoticons.  I have nothing but respect of your opinion (and others) - but it is strange that little has been openly discussed - always makes me nervous. I have no issue openly vetting the issues, but I would imagine the lawyers would not want that... surprise. :ignore: 

and that - to me - is also a fundamental issue...

as always - IMO... hope all is well with K+P

I dressed like Steve Jobs today...


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Conde Nast Traveler: St. John ranks 2nd*

Conde Nast Traveler - 2011 Readers Choice Awards
St. John ranks 2nd as Top Carribean Island

http://www.concierge.com/images/cnt/pdf/2011-Readers-Choice-Awards.pdf


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## DavidnRobin

*Photos from STJ Photographer Steve Simonsen*

in the spirit of STJ beauty... some excellent photos - vacationing in STJ is like living in a postcard

http://simonsen.photoshelter.com/gallery-collection/St-John-US-Virgin-Islands/P0000gd7P28TwZ_g

http://simonsen.photoshelter.com/ga...-and-British-Virgin-islands/G0000O9dDTlKmJDo/

http://simonsen.photoshelter.com/gallery/St-John-Vistas/G0000LQeQJ_YUnQE/

enjoy...


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## DavidnRobin

On-StJohn.com - Flip-Flop Cam does The Westin
http://www.on-stjohn.com/2011/10/21/flip-flop-cam-the-westin/

(must be before 8am based on shadows and nobody around - looks like they finally replaced the lounge chair cushions by the main pool - 3 chair hogs spotted)


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## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> looks like they finally replaced the lounge chair cushions by the main pool - 3 chair hogs spotted)



Ahh...Looks so heavenly! 

Can't wait till next summer....its been too long. 

Funny about the chair hogs....every resort, does not matter.


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## Beaglemom3

I received a long list of resales from Lynn at www.islandiarealestate.com


http://www.islandiarealestate.com/condo.cfm?Attributes.Type=Timeshare

I have accepted an offer on mine. I sold it low and took the hit. I have 2 cheaop-o Marriott Platinums to offset the loss, but I will miss WSJ.
Just had too many and my week 32 wasn't working for me anymore.


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## Tfleming675

*Water Sports Question*

Question. We are going to WSJ on Monday. Should we use Cruise Bay Water sports (part of Westin) or a different service. We want to go to BVI and some jet-ski tours. 

Any recommendations?


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## jerseygirl

We've done Cruz Bay and other companies' BVI tours.  In my opinion, all the "large group" tours are pretty much alike.   The Cruz Bay ones have convenience on their side.  Obviously, the best ones are private -- then you can control the itinerary, timing, etc -- but you have to be willing to pay dearly for that privilege.  

We've only done the jet ski tour with Cruz Bay.  They don't let you go on your own (they claim they're subject to a huge fine if you cross into National Park Territory).  If you're okay with that limitation, it's a fun trip.


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## Westin5Star

I recommend looking at the top 5-6 on Trip Advisor.  We will be there Saturday Nov 5-12.  Last year my wife and I did a private charter ($700 or so) around St. John and through the BVIs.  It was amazing.  If you are interested PM me and we could rent a private charter together next week.  We are not bringing the kids on this trip so it is just my wife and myself.  We are most likely planning 2 boating days next week and are flexible with our time.  Make sure that you go to Jost Van Dyke- Foxy's and Soggy Dollar!!!


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## letsgomets

Just got the 2012 budget for BV.  It listed 54 units with respect to certain expenses on the top half of the page and 41 units with respect to others (the majority) on the bottom half.  Anyone know why?


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## DavidnRobin

MF bills out for 2012 for WSJ VG - 8.6% decrease from 2011
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1197954&postcount=21


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## DavidnRobin

Westin5Star said:


> I recommend looking at the top 5-6 on Trip Advisor.  We will be there Saturday Nov 5-12.  Last year my wife and I did a private charter ($700 or so) around St. John and through the BVIs.  It was amazing.  If you are interested PM me and we could rent a private charter together next week.  We are not bringing the kids on this trip so it is just my wife and myself.  We are most likely planning 2 boating days next week and are flexible with our time.  Make sure that you go to Jost Van Dyke- Foxy's and Soggy Dollar!!!



No kids - now that sounds like a blast - wish we could join... maybe 2013?


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## DavidnRobin

letsgomets said:


> Just got the 2012 budget for BV.  It listed 54 units with respect to certain expenses on the top half of the page and 41 units with respect to others (the majority) on the bottom half.  Anyone know why?



No I don't - perhaps jersey girl knows.

Would you mind posting details?


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## jerseygirl

I don't know either ... if I had to guess, maybe 13 units (54 -41) are part of the hotel, i.e. not for sale (for now).    

It's strange ... some expenses are listed under both categories, where "above the line" is the portion divided by 54 units and "below the line" is the portion divided by 41 units (I'm quoting for a standard 2-BR unit):

Here are the bullshit administrative ones:

*...............................Above the Line................ Below the Line*
_Payroll & Related:_
Admin ................................115.71**................................0
Front Desk.................................0.....................................92.43**
_Operating Expenses:_
Administration........................68.15......................................0
Front Desk..................................0.....................................23.85
_Other Expenses:_
Management Fees...................46.61......................................110.77
Master Declaration .................37.88.......................................0

Above the Line (54 Units) 268.35
Below the Line (41 Units) 227.05
Grand Total of "What the He!! Do They Do?" Fees:  = $495.40
For 51 Weeks: $25264 per unit
Based on the low wages in the islands, it would seem we have one full time person per unit doing "administrative stuff!"  
I'm thinking I could do it for more than one unit -- do you think I could get $252,644 if I promise to take really good care, administratively, of 10 units?


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## letsgomets

DavidnRobin said:


> No I don't - perhaps jersey girl knows.
> 
> Would you mind posting details?



rest of highlights (per week per 2 BR unit)

total MF $1,731.12 ($1,968.10 for 2BR loft and $2,086.59 for 3BR)

breakdown:
54 units above line ("Condo Common") - $512.69/unit
41 units below line ("Vacation Ownership") - $1,218.43/unit

above line expenses:
payroll and related (admin, maintenance, housekeeping-public area, security) - $174.17
operating (admin, audit/legal, maintenance, utilities, insurance) - $225.40
other (management, reserves, master decl., prior  year surplus) - $113.44

below line expenses:
payroll and related - $92.43
operating - $544.60
other (bad debt, cc fees, inc. tax, management, reserves, prior yr surplus, ADA compliance) - $434.23

the management fee component is $46.61 for the above line and $110.77 for below line.

wonder what new ADA compliance is for ($80.61/unit/week for a total of $189,071) given how new BV is and the assumption that everything would have been pretty start of the art for ADA compliance when built.

Maybe I'm not reading it right, but there's no mention of any developer subsidy in the revenues so I would presume that while costs will inevitably rise a little bit each year, there won't be a big bump for any subsidy running out.

No RE taxes -- I'm a new owner this year (closed in February).  Does anyone know if BV owners pay RE taxes directly?


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## jerseygirl

I don't know full details for ADA, but our Hillside newsletter mentioned ramps to the small pools in Phase One and our share of a lift entrance for the main resort pool (for wheelchair-bound guests).

In prior years, I'm fairly certain an estimated figure for RE taxes was included in the BV phase maintenance bill (but definitely not for Hillside phase).  Not related (but sort of), this year the budget mailing for SVR Springs said, "Taxes will be billed separately."  That's a first -- SVR has ALWAYS included taxes in the maintenance fee.  Maybe something strange is going on with taxes and Starwood.


----------



## Westin5Star

I just got back from our 2nd trip to WSJ.  We had another great time.  The staff was very nice at the resort.  We stayed in a 2BR Loft and I really liked the setup.  We used the Westin water taxis for transportation and it was smooth and easy.  

We had some amazing meals.  We at at La Plancha twice, Zozo's twice, and CBP once (as it didn't open until our 2nd to the last night there).  All these restaurants were had awesome food and service.  We also ate at La Tapa and Spy Glass and they were just ok.  

We spent two boating days this year and hit Jost both times.  We also went to Willy T one day and had great snorkeling.  I had intended to use Stu again but I forgot his contact information at home.  

We only had two slightly negatives for our trip.  It rained all day one day.  The bugs bit me anytime after 4pm that I wasn't saturated in baby oil; luckily I applied it heavy and often!!!

We love WSJ and hope to go again next year.


----------



## CAK1

Westin5Star said:


> I just got back from our 2nd trip to WSJ.  We had another great time.  The staff was very nice at the resort.  We stayed in a 2BR Loft and I really liked the setup.  We used the Westin water taxis for transportation and it was smooth and easy.
> 
> We had some amazing meals.  We at at La Plancha twice, Zozo's twice, and CBP once (as it didn't open until our 2nd to the last night there).  All these restaurants were had awesome food and service.  We also ate at La Tapa and Spy Glass and they were just ok.
> 
> We spent two boating days this year and hit Jost both times.  We also went to Willy T one day and had great snorkeling.  I had intended to use Stu again but I forgot his contact information at home.
> 
> We only had two slightly negatives for our trip.  It rained all day one day.  The bugs bit me anytime after 4pm that I wasn't saturated in baby oil; luckily I applied it heavy and often!!!
> 
> We love WSJ and hope to go again next year.


Westin5Star,
We are at the WSJ now tll Saturday. Wondering what company you used for your boat trip to Jost?  We did a private sailboat trip last year but looking for a motor boat this trip.  
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Carrie


----------



## Tfleming675

CAK1 said:


> Westin5Star,
> We are at the WSJ now tll Saturday. Wondering what company you used for your boat trip to Jost?  We did a private sailboat trip last year but looking for a motor boat this trip.
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> Thanks
> Carrie



My wife and I just got back from WSJ and be booked the 45 foot Searay from Magic moments right at the Westin dock. It was an incredible day on the water and the service was excellent. We had a captain and a steward all day. As we got out of the water from snorkeling the steward was there with fresh water. We went to Jost, however, it was a waste of time when you have a book like this at your service.


----------



## Tfleming675

*WSJ*

Just got back from WSJ. They offered us an owners price for an EOY that was very attractive. We declined and took the explorer package that they offered. Should have some with that.


----------



## WildJohn

*Upcoming Election*

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the upcoming election.  Bob Werbel's 2 year term is up in March.  While he and Phil have done a much better job than their predecessors, I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on anyone else (other than Bob).  I find it interesting that they are holding this year's annual meeting at WSJ instead of Orlando.  That makes it difficult for people who want to attend to do so, unless their week happens to fall during March 19, 2012.  Perhaps Starwood was not happy with the outcome 2 years ago and wants to make it more difficult on the owners.

Have a great holiday season all!!

John


----------



## DavidnRobin

WildJohn said:


> I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the upcoming election.  Bob Werbel's 2 year term is up in March.  While he and Phil have done a much better job than their predecessors, I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on anyone else (other than Bob).  I find it interesting that they are holding this year's annual meeting at WSJ instead of Orlando.  That makes it difficult for people who want to attend to do so, unless their week happens to fall during March 19, 2012.  Perhaps Starwood was not happy with the outcome 2 years ago and wants to make it more difficult on the owners.
> 
> Have a great holiday season all!!
> 
> John



Hi John - see below - you do not have to be present in order to vote.  I think the annual meeting where many people showed up in person was unique due to the opportunity to elect 'Owner Represntatives' (vs the pawns that had sat on the board previously) - and Phil and Bob won the vote - but that still did not seem to satisfy some Owners who have an agenda different than Phil and Bob.

I personally thing Phil and Bob have done an excellent job given the conditions/confines  they need to work with-in - and it shows in improvements at WSJ-VG (please do not bash me - as this is MY OPINION - and certainly others do not agree apparently - so be it...).

Proxy votes are the common way to vote within the SVO system - the biggest problem is lack of majority which leads to SVO making our decisions for us.  I do plan on voting - and plan to continue to support Phil and Bob.

- David

******
A Reminder From Your Board of Directors - December, 2011  

Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Villas Owner: 
As you may know, the Board of Directors of the Association is composed of five members, three of whom were appointed by Starwood and two of whom, Philip Schrag and Robert Werbel, were elected by the owners in May, 2010. Mr. Werbel's term will expire at the next annual meeting of the Association, March 19, 2012. At the annual meeting, therefore, association members will have the opportunity to cast their vote, in person or by proxy, to elect an owner representative to serve a three-year term from March 19, 2012 through the annual meeting in the spring of 2015. The March 19, 2012 meeting will be held at the Westin St. John Resort.

The management-appointed directors, Teri Castleberry, Johnathan Ho, and Paulette Carter, will continue to serve. Owner-elected director Philip G. Schrag will also continue to serve on the Board, as his term of office runs until the end of the annual meeting in 2013.

During the winter, you will receive a proxy through which you can bind your designated proxy (you will be able to select either Ms. Carter or Mr. Schrag) to vote for the candidate of your choice. You will also be able to give your proxy the authority to vote for you with regard to any other business that may come before the membership at the annual meeting. As in the previous election, proxies will be received and tabulated by an independent, outside company.

Mr. Werbel has advised the Board that he is willing to serve for another term and that he will run for re-election. Accordingly, his name will appear on the proxy. Other owners may also run for election. Short statements by all of the candidates will accompany the proxy. If you would like to run for election to the Board of Directors, please send a typewritten statement of no more than 250 words, by December 16, 2011 using one of the following options:

By Mail:
SVO Management, Inc.
Attention: Board Relations (VGV-Board)
9002 San Marco Court
Orlando, FL 32819-8600

By Fax:
(407) 418-7006
Attention: Board Relations
Subject: VGV-Board

By Email:
boardrelations@starwoodvo.com
Subject: VGV-Board

Please be sure to include your name, phone number, and the subject (VGV-Board) on your submission so we may contact you with any questions as well as confirm receipt of your information.

Owner-elected representatives' duties include, among others, participation in at least four Board meetings a year, plus an all-day informal budget workshop in Orlando, Florida. Most of the meetings are conducted by conference call but some require travel. Expenses for required travel are reimbursed, but owner-elected directors serve as volunteers and are not compensated.

Thank you for your consideration.

Board of Directors 
Virgin Grand Villas – St. John Condominium Owners Association
*****


----------



## DavidnRobin

*STJ's Best PainKiller*

up next... Bushwhackers!
{"are you putting on weight?"}
Westin's Pool Bar (Snorkels) came in 2nd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWKzzvcpzg&feature=youtu.be


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Lonely Planet - StJ #1*

bump...
http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2011/12/lonely-planet-loves-the-vis.html

also Ted's Supper Club rated #1 Restaurant on StJ (and isn't one...) by TripAdvisor - Ted prepared a meal for us last June and it was probably the best we have ever had anywhere...
http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2011/12/best-restaurants-of-2011.html

Happy New Year to everyone...


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> also Ted's Supper Club rated #1 Restaurant on StJ (and isn't one...) by TripAdvisor - Ted prepared a meal for us last June and it was probably the best we have ever had anywhere...
> http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2011/12/best-restaurants-of-2011.html



I have left two voice mails and sent two emails to him. No replies from him. 

Obviously he is doing something right, but 0 for 4 on inquiries have dampen my outlook of using him this summer.


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> I have left two voice mails and sent two emails to him. No replies from him.
> 
> Obviously he is doing something right, but 0 for 4 on inquiries have dampen my outlook of using him this summer.



Wow - talk about Island-time... perhaps he is off island?

on another note... better late than never...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkSfId7kUpE&feature=related


----------



## bobpark56

tomandrobin said:


> I have left two voice mails and sent two emails to him. No replies from him.
> 
> 
> This seems to be a St John thing. I have twice filled out a web page request form for Westin Breeze transport to WSJ. No one has yet responded.
> 
> I have twice filled out a Paris Car Rentals web page form requesting a vehicle for October. No one has yet responded.


----------



## tomandrobin

bobpark56 said:


> tomandrobin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have left two voice mails and sent two emails to him. No replies from him.
> 
> 
> This seems to be a St John thing. I have twice filled out a web page request form for Westin Breeze transport to WSJ. No one has yet responded.
> 
> I have twice filled out a Paris Car Rentals web page form requesting a vehicle for October. No one has yet responded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually....Had the same issue with contacting various transportation companies too. Only _one_ has been regularly responsive.
Click to expand...


----------



## pharmgirl

Hi All

Will be at the Westin TS in St John for first time Pres week.  Just started to really think about transportation.  We have been to St John a number of times but on sailboats, first time on land!

Are there taxis readily available from the resort to beaches , assume this is fine
But, how do you return from beach?  I seem to remember some taxis at the national Park beach, the one with the underwater trail.  We will be 4 adults and a 7 yr old.  Probably will stay mostly at resort with some sailing

If we decide to rent a car can we rent from the resort?  we will be on St Thomas at Sapphire Beach week before but probably will be using taxis.  Really don't want to rent on St Thomas and take car ferry to St John

The Westin ferry service seems very expensive, once we are on St John will not be leaving till week is over, then ferry and Frenchmans Reef hotel for another 2 nights

Very excited to have luxury 2 big BR, etc compared to sleeping on an at most 50 ft sail boat

thanks for info [searched but not sure about specifics]


----------



## ekinggill

Topic has been discussed many times and opinions abound.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160778


I  and many others love renting on STT and taking the car ferry, others not so much.  

Enjoy.


----------



## DavidnRobin

After having taken every type of transport to/from/on StJ (except private taxi) over the last 6 years - we rent on STT and take car ferry.  YMMV

Be aware that the taxis charge per person (for example - 4 people going to Cruz Bay will cost $20 at $5pp - which is ~2 miles away from WSJ)
The taxis are really taxi-buses as they pickup/dropoff others during the trip.
The taxis do go to/from the main north-side beaches during the day.
The car ferries have just increased their prices by ~10%.

To me - since we spend so much for our StJ vacations already - I do not decide to go cheap when it comes to transportation.  From our villa in B34 - we can get to Trunk Bay in 17 mins - that (to me) is worth a lot versus dealing with the taxis - again YMMV.

As to non-communication from StJ businesses - this is very common - the island businesses are not internet-savvy (I think they choose not to be) - contact by telephone and direct email works best and trust goes a long way if you are comfortable with that. For example - they probably have your reservation, but haven't gotten around to acknowledging.


----------



## lobsterlover

*Westin St. John*

We just got back from an amazing stay at Frenchmans Cove in STT and did 2 car ferry trips to St. John. We really liked it there so investigated the Westin before we left for a future trip. We just walked about and I talked to a few people asking opinions. Unfortunatly no one we talked to was very happy with their rooms.  I have read that on TA. 
We didn't talk to anyone about the condo's though and wondered what the state of those are in. The haul across the road looks like a pain. On Redweek it looks like there is a different section on the beach side???
I know this is  a hudge thread dating all the way back to 2008 but I'd really like to cut to the chase! and not read 929 posts...LOL
Thank you
Renee


----------



## jerseygirl

There are two phases, Hillside (across the road but not a pain at all - "iguana rides" are a phone call away if don't want to spend 7 minutes walking through lush gardens!) and Bay Vista, up the hill to the right if standing on beach looking at the resort.

Bay Vista only a few years old and units still in great shape.  Hillside completed a huge renovation within the last two years - units also in great shape.  

Hillside weeks are fixed/float - short explanation is buy a week that works for you cuz floating is close to impossible.  Bay Vista sold as at least 50% float - 3 seasons:  winter, summer, hurricane.

Advantages of Hillside - real ovens, 3-BRs have own pools, ability to park outside your unit

Advantages of Bay Vista - float (if that's what you want), lower maint fees (for now, won't hold true long term).  Parking is clear across the resort and the combination microwave/convection oven sucks. 

I own at both - prefer Hillside, but wanted the ability to float so have one EOY at each.  

Prices to buy are pretty low due to high maint fees.  Hillside comes with SVN (Starwood's internal system) on resale market.  Bay Vista doesn't - but you won't want to trade so not a big deal in my book!
There's your nutshell!


----------



## lobsterlover

This is very helpful...thanks for taking the time to tell me.
We were going to rent, not buy, but good info.
I'm not afraid of walking but end up loaded down like a pack mule cause of kids!
Don't plan on cooking anything but bacon and eggs...yay!!
When you say the 3 beds have there own pools are you talking plunge pool per unit or pool per bank of condo's. We actually drove all the way to the back and to the right up the hill at the condos and saw a small pool. Is that where you're talking about new ones?
Thanks!


----------



## jerseygirl

No, you would have passed the 3-BR Pool Villas, on your left, on your way up the hill.  Each villa has its own pool -- not a plunge pool, but certainly not a lap pool either.

There's a good picture here:  http://www.stjohncondos.com/3bedfacs.htm

The rest of the Hilltop Villas (studios, one-BRs and two-BRs) have shared pools between the buildings, which is what you saw, plus access to the main pool (of course).  Bay Vista (the "new" phase) only has access to the main pool -- a short walk, but LOTS of steps for a pack mule!


----------



## jerseygirl

Here's a resort map, which makes it easier to understand locations:

http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif

Buildings 24, 25, 26 and 27 (light yellow -- labeled "Upper Hillside Buildings") are the Bay Vista Villas ("new phase").  There are regular 2-BRs, 2-BR Lofts and 3-BR units.

Buildings 41, 42, 43 and 44 are the 3-BR pool villas, which are part of Phase One  ("Hillside Villas" ... original name Virgin Grand Villas).

Buildings 31, 32, 33 and 34 are the studios, 1-BRs, and 2-BRs (both a flat floorplan and a townhouse floorplan) for Phase One.

All the other buildings are part of the hotel, and sadly in need of a good renovation.  Having said that, most people don't spend a lot of time in their rooms ... but you do hear a lot of griping about it from hotel guests at the pool.


----------



## bobpark56

bobpark56 said:


> tomandrobin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have left two voice mails and sent two emails to him. No replies from him.
> 
> 
> This seems to be a St John thing. I have twice filled out a web page request form for Westin Breeze transport to WSJ. No one has yet responded.
> 
> I have twice filled out a Paris Car Rentals web page form requesting a vehicle for October. No one has yet responded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well...WSJ finally responded, and we now have ferry reservations. Two tidbits may be of interest:
> 1. The fee for the ferry is now $120pp for adults.
> 2. Owners receive a $10 discount. (I'm not sure whether this is for WSJ owners only, or if other Westin owners are also eligible. It may pay to ask.)
> 
> Before I get chastised for not renting a car on St Thomas...we won't be needing a vehicle for our full 13-day stay at WSJ. That tilts the economics in favor of taking the ferry and renting on St John.
Click to expand...


----------



## lobsterlover

Thanks Jerseygirl.
Just to confirm, someone booking with staroptions are able to rent right?
You've sold me! Now to find a rental for next xmas! Lots of time anyway!
Renee

oh also...guests told me the hotel was going to remodel some of the old hotel rooms into timeshare condo's. Sure would be a nice location, near the pool and beach.


----------



## DavidnRobin

bobpark56 said:


> bobpark56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well...WSJ finally responded, and we now have ferry reservations. Two tidbits may be of interest:
> 1. The fee for the ferry is now $120pp for adults.
> 2. Owners receive a $10 discount. (I'm not sure whether this is for WSJ owners only, or if other Westin owners are also eligible. It may pay to ask.)
> 
> Before I get chastised for not renting a car on St Thomas...we won't be needing a vehicle for our full 13-day stay at WSJ. That tilts the economics in favor of taking the ferry and renting on St John.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The discount is meant for WSJ Owners, but can't hurt to ask.
> 
> It is not about chastising - I have certainly taken the WSJ as well as the public passenger ferry (and rented both on STT and STJ).  It is more about knowing that the option of renting on STT and taking the car barge over as not being as complicated as it may seem.  The Westin ferry has gotten quite expensive - when we first took it (~5 years ago) it was $65pp - much more reasonable.  Now with 4 adults - it is about the same as a week rental and not having to hassle with the taxi-buses or the per person cost (and certainly cannot be defined as a 'cab'). If your intent is to stay on resort for the most part - then a long-term rental is certainly not worth it.  Our last 2 trips (14 days) - we barely made it down to the main resort and spend most time at the numerous beautiful beaches - but that is us - everyone has their own vacation expectations.
> 
> Whatever you rent - make sure the vehicle has good brakes and tires, and functioning AC.  Also - take good notes (photos) of the vehicle before renting - and make sure it is clean of sand upon returning.  If renting from O'Connor at the resort - try not to mind the people behind the counter - they are infamous for poor service skills - it is just the way it is.
> 
> Enjoy
Click to expand...


----------



## ekinggill

*Just a heads up if you rent a car at the resort*

While we are on the topic of renting a car...

Last year a couple in our group rented a car at the resort for a day.  The car was of fine quality.  They liked it and decided to keep it for a second day, assuming it would work like a normal rental at Hertz or Avis...not so.

The car was something like $45 a day and $12 per hour if you return it late.  When he returned it after about 40 hours, their bill was for the daily rate for the first 24 hours and the hourly rate for each and every one of the the other 16 hours.  The resort didn't offer to help, claiming it was a third party consession.

After much aggrevation, the manager of the rental car place met him in the middle, but it cost him much more than the expected.


----------



## WildJohn

*Regarding Renting a Car at the Resort*

My suggestion is *DO NOT EVER DO THAT*  You get the best value on your trip by renting a car from the airport in St. Thomas.  You can get a weekly rate of approx $500.00  Avis and Budget allow you to ferry your car over to St. John  It's about a 45 minute drive from the airport to Red Hook, where you catch the car ferry.  Three different operators run it, so there's one just about every half hour from about 7:00am to 8:00pm.  The cost is roughly $25.00 each way per vehicle.  Even if you only intend to drive around St. John 2 of the days that you are there, you save the $110.00 per person adult r/t on the Westin ferry and you have transportation for everything on St. John (trips to down for dinner, going to the supermarket to pick up groceries, etc).

If you don't want to rent from the airport, there are better places in town to use as opposed to the resort.  Dave and Robin might have some additional suggestions.

John


----------



## LisaRex

Yes, there are cheaper places to rent a car in town for day rentals.   It's all in whether you are willing to pay for the convenience of an on-site car rental company.  (And the $5 per person cab ride to/from Cruz Bay.)


----------



## DavidnRobin

John - Some folks just do not want to be burdened with a vehicle the whole time - and I understand this - especially if someone stays in the BV section as parking is some distance away.

Parking is available right outside of the Hillside (VG) villas - and that adds tremendous benefit in accessing StJ (IMO).  If I were down in the BV section - I may tend to say 'screw-it, I'll just hang by the pool' vs. dealing with getting everyone (incl me) over to the car along with all of our stuff - as I am very lazy when on vacation (and it is hot! in June), and I am the most active of the bunch.  Heck... we barely get down to the main resort.

We enjoy the freedom having a vehicle gives us, but I think that stems in some part to our easy in/out access. We go with Amalie Car Rental in STT nowadays - it costs more, but... IMO YMMV

Speaking off Jeep rentals... The Grande Bay Resort in CB that has recently gone fractional - has a Jeep Club for Owners - it would be great if WSJ did the same...
http://www.grandebayresort.com/page_rc_faq.cfm

btw... for those curious...
2Bd/2Ba Suite at GBR (1465sqft) - rack rate $600/nite (w/tax) during our weeks in June
http://www.grandebayresortusvi.com/room.cfm?RoomID=4

Wow! - the 1Bd Penthouse suite looks nice - I wonder what they want for it?
rack rate - ~$511/nite (w/ tax)
http://www.grandebayresortusvi.com/room.cfm?RoomID=6

has video... and No... I do not represent GBR


----------



## LisaRex

The video in DavidNRobin's post gives a great overview of what to expect in St. John.  It has a unique flavor and the video captures it well, IMO.


----------



## Rascalsmom

Pharmgirl, have you been to Sapphire Beach before?   We stayed there a few years ago and the quality of individual units varies widely.  We rented directly  from an owner.  No amenities, but the BEST beach, IMO.  Really- not even a restaurant because there were problems between the mgt co and the HOA.  I wanted a car there. 

I would stay there again for the beach but I would rent on VRBO where I could see the unit.   Bon Voyage- wish I was going!


----------



## pharmgirl

Rascalsmom said:


> Pharmgirl, have you been to Sapphire Beach before?   We stayed there a few years ago and the quality of individual units varies widely.  We rented directly  from an owner.  No amenities, but the BEST beach, IMO.  Really- not even a restaurant because there were problems between the mgt co and the HOA.  I wanted a car there.
> 
> I would stay there again for the beach but I would rent on VRBO where I could see the unit.   Bon Voyage- wish I was going!



We were at the beach last year, rented fromVRBO we will take our chances, pics look nice and we aren,t too fussy 
Looking for clean place with kitchen and nice view
Family will join us on st John 
We sailed BVI many times on 36 to 50 ft boats land accommodations in islands seem very comfortable
Will take taxis if we want to go to grocery store or restaurants, renting a car in STT and will take car ferry over

Last time we took the car ferry our grandson drove up the ramp and maneuvered into the parking on deck That will be interesting!!!!


----------



## Rascalsmom

Yay VRBO - good for you.  I'm sure it will be very nice -  just wanted to make sure you didn't have a bad surprise if you got one of the Mgt company units (Antilles resorts?).  Just remembered - my avatar is of our view at Sapphire!

We are doing Tradewinds BVI in July, so we will be trying out the boat accomodations.  Can't wait!


----------



## DavidnRobin

*New Reservation Procedure for NPS Reef Bay Walk*

for those interested - this is a great adventure and deal while on StJ

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...ay-trail-hike&catid=571:012012-news&Itemid=38


----------



## LisaRex

DavidnRobin said:


> for those interested - this is a great adventure and deal while on StJ
> 
> http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...ay-trail-hike&catid=571:012012-news&Itemid=38



For those who don't want to bother to register, this link leads to info about the Reef Bay trail hike.  It used to be organized by the National Park; Now it is organized by an organization called Friends of VI National Park. I've done the hike and would recommend it.  Pre-booking is recommended.


----------



## jarta

Perhaps more about the Reef Bay Trail hike than you need or want to know.  But, no need to register to read it or see the pictures.

http://www.stjohnbeachguide.com/Reef Bay Trail.htm   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

I didn't know you had to register to read StJ Tradewinds - here is excerpt...

*****
Friends of Virgin Islands National Park and Virgin Islands National Park announced last week a change in reservation policy for the National Park Service ranger-led hike to Reef Bay, the premier hiking opportunity in VINP.

Reservations and purchase of transportation vouchers for the Reef Bay Hike, led by VINP rangers, will now be done through the Friends of the Park Store on the first level of Mongoose Junction.

Vouchers for transportation will need to be purchased at the time of reservation for $30 per hiker.

The maximum number of hikers on any given trip will be 31. Friends will maintain a waiting list once hikes are filled to capacity and will notify those on the list as vacancies occur.

Vouchers for the Reef Bay Hike will be available on the day of the hike on a space available basis; but this is a very popular activity and advance reservations are highly recommended.

Enquiries about reservations for the hike at the VINP Visitor Center will be directed by counter staff to the Friends of the Park Store.
The schedule for trips will be as follows: January – March: four trips/week (Mon, Tue, Thu, & Fri); April – July: three trips/week (Mon, Tue, & Thu); August – October: two trips/week (Mon & Thu); November – December: three trips/week (Mon, Tue, & Thu)

The frequency of trips may be modified by VINP based on demand or other conditions.

All details of the trip will remain the same. The taxi to the Reef Bay trailhead will depart the VINP Visitors Center promptly at 9:30 a.m. and return to Cruz Bay by boat by 2:30 or 3 p.m.

Vouchers should be picked up from the Friends of the Park Store in Mongoose Junction, and hikers are encouraged to pick up vouchers days prior to the hike. Anyone who must pick up a voucher on the day of the hike, please do so by 9 am, when the store opens.

Hikers must have their vouchers in hand to board the taxi from VINP Visitor Center at 9:30 am and to present to the boat crew at Reef Bay.

If the hike is cancelled by VINP, voucher-holders will receive a full refund or may rebook the trip at no additional charge. If a reservation is canceled more than 24 hours before the start of the hike, hikers may rebook the hike at no additional charge, or receive a full refund.

There are no refunds for “no-shows” or elective cancellations within 24 hours of the trip. Call the Friends of the Park Store at 340-779-8700 for last minute questions or to cancel a reservation. Vouchers are not transferable.


----------



## jarta

I have not hiked the Reef Bay Trail.  However, I have driven down Centerline Road several times coming back from Coral Bay and always wondered what was on the south side of the island.

Next time I am back at WSJ, this hike will be a must.  Kudos to David for posting this information about the Reef Bay Trail.  Good to know stuff!   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

Lisa - here is the letter from the WSJ-VG BOD...
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1115864&postcount=806

Plus the posts regarding the Property Taxes are just a few pages back...
enjoy


----------



## LisaRex

> Approximately 20 deeds have been turned over to the association so far, and these units will be offered to Virgin Grand owners, at greatly reduced rates, before they are offered on the open market. If you have registered your email address on mystarcentral.com, you will hear more through email about this special offer in the coming months. The proceeds of these sales will go to the owners’ association.





> As you know, many weeks whose owners were locked out because of non-payment of fees were offered for rental to owners for the cost of the unpaid maintenance fee. Fifteen such units were rented, bringing in $35,000 to the association’s operating account. This was a successful first effort, but we hope that if there are a substantial number of such weeks next year, more will be rented to St. John owners, again for the cost of the unpaid fees.



These are two great programs that illustrate how an owner-focused HOA can, and should, operate.  Paying owners at other resorts pay for delinquent owners with no benefit at all.  If I'm going to pay for deadbeat owners, by gawd, I should get some benefit.  Being able to rent weeks for the cost of MFs is certainly a start.


----------



## jarta

LisaRex said:


> These are two great programs that illustrate how an owner-focused HOA can, and should, operate.  Paying owners at other resorts pay for delinquent owners with no benefit at all.  If I'm going to pay for deadbeat owners, by gawd, I should get some benefit.  Being able to rent weeks for the cost of MFs is certainly a start.



Lisa,   ...   What resorts are you paying "for delinquent owners with no benefit at all?"  How did you obtain this information? 

If any rental is made by the HOA, doesn't the rental benefit the association and inure to the benefit of the other owners at the resort?  Wouldn't a rental at more than the MF generate more benefit to the association and it's owners than a rental for the MF alone?  Just asking?   ...   eom


----------



## DavidnRobin

Perhaps worth knowing is that my post above was not to LisaRex, but another Lisa who sent me a PM... Peace


----------



## pharmgirl

We will be at westin st john for first time feb 18th
Grandson asked if there is a steam room? He,s only 7 so wont be going to the spa! Surprised he asked but he,s been going with us to timeshares and I guess is expecting all the luxuries 
Lucky litle kid
 at his age I was happy with a little bungalow on the lake with only cold water


----------



## kathyg

*Advice on Renting?*

I've been lurking on this group for a while, first time posting.

We're not going to be able to use our WSJ week this year because we can't take the kids out of school.   My middle school child had a hard time making up for lost time this past December and didn't want to miss a week of 7th grade next year.  It's tough when the 11 year old is the responsible one in the family!

I'm trying to decide if we should try renting the villa, converting it to StarOptions/StarPoints, or possibly going out of SVO and using II.

For those of you who rented, any suggestions how to do this?  I called the SVO people and they thought there was a WSJ rental group but couldn't find the info.  

Thanks!

Kathy
4215 week 50


----------



## islandguy

kathyg said:


> I've been lurking on this group for a while, first time posting.
> 
> I'm trying to decide if we should try renting the villa, converting it to StarOptions/StarPoints, or possibly going out of SVO and using II.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Kathy
> 4215 week 50




Week 50 would be a tough week to get top dollar in rental since it is falls betwen Turkey day and XMas.  I would try to exchange it in the SPG system to another week when school is out (i.e. summer) as your Dec week is valued point wise better than summer in STJ.


----------



## jarta

Consider banking your StarOptions. It will involve paying a fee and it must be done by a certain date (March 1?) or later based upon Elite status. But, it is an option you have.   

Consult the TUG Starwwod sticky to find out how to do this.   ...   eom


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## kathyg

Thanks Islandguy & Jarta, We're Sunday-Sunday, so week 50 is even earlier this year -- Dec 9-16 while our Saturday-Saturday week 50 friends are Dec 15 - 22.  When I talked to SVO today they told me I had until July to bank the StarOptions.  I'll check out the Starwood sticky.

Kathy


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Virgin Grand Villa - VOTE*

To WSJ VGV Owners -

In case you were not aware (or are aware, but forgetful) - there is an upcoming proxy vote (3/19) at the VGV Annual Meeting - make sure you send in your proxy as there is a vote for a VGV HOA Board Member.

...so this is an important vote and it is required that a quorum is met.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*USVI Property Tax Update*

It appears that 2009 Property Tax bills are going to be sent out soon - the good news for Villa owners is that these bills will be at the old rate.  This rate is estimated to be about 1/2 of what the new rate will be once the USVI Gov't can get approval for the new (and fair) property tax rate.

PS - do not forget to send your proxy votes in.  

from:
http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2012/03/taxes.html
_For the second time in about eight months, the Tax Assessor has issued property tax bills. The latest one, being received this week, is for 2009. Back in August, the VI government began collecting taxes for 2008.

It's a long, complicated, woeful story about why the territory - going broke every month - hasn't been collecting taxes for years. It has to do with the VI's paying a consulting firm $8 million dollars to do assessments which turned out to be explosively high. And were blocked in court.

Figuring half a loaf is better than none, the Governor finally said, "Let's collect taxes at the old rates. (At least we'll have some income.)" And so, that's what he's doing, playing catch up by issuing two bills a year. Eventually, they'll bill for 2010 and 2011.

And here's the good news.

The bills will be at the old rate, the same as they have been for five years or so. That's a pretty good deal for homeowners.

It's gotta change, though. Sen. Craig Barshinger, a St.. Johnian, has legislation to try and solve the property tax-stalemate. He's proposed that taxes be calculated using the average value of similar properties on St. Thomas and St. John._


----------



## alexadeparis

Getting ready to leave next week for WSJ. I decided to rent a car for most of the trip. What portion of St John is driveable without 4 wheel drive? Just Cruz Bay? Also, I was contemplating ordering from the grocery villa delivery, but wanted to know if those that had used it thougt it was worth it? I know that there are stores in town, so is it best just to wait until the next morning and go grocery shopping then? Or should we order the bare minimum from the villa delivery and supplement at the grocery store? I read that grocery prices are 20-25% higher in the Virgin Islands, but the Westin website says they are 2-3 times higher (200-300%?!?) higher. I don't know who to believe.


----------



## LisaRex

alexadeparis said:


> I read that grocery prices are 20-25% higher in the Virgin Islands, but the Westin website says they are 2-3 times higher (200-300%?!?) higher. I don't know who to believe.



The Westin website is closer to the truth.  Here's a sample of grocery prices: 6-pack of bagels: $4; 8 oz. cream cheese:  $4.79.  Medium bag of Doritos:  $5.29; 6 pack of Pepsi: $5.99. 

The only thing cheap is the liquor.  We usually stock up at the duty free store at the airport. 

If you're taking the Westin ferry, there is a small, very expensive, grocery store at Crown Bay harbor next to Tickles Restaurant.   We picked up essentials there prior to our ferry trip over to St. John, then went grocery shopping at the Starfish Market in town the next day.  Though the grocery store right across from the Westin should be just as good, if not better. 

If you will get your car on St. Thomas, there is a much more reasonably priced grocery store that is, I swear, named "Food Market" or something like that.  Prices there were about 25% higher than the mainland, but much, more better than the tourist-flocked grocery stores on either island. 

If I was just going to town, I'd skip the rental car altogether and just use the Westin taxis ($5 pp each way).  Still cheaper than the $85 daily car rental rate.

If I was going to any of the beaches, especially Coral or Salt Pond Bay, I'd rent a 4WD.


----------



## DavidnRobin

alexadeparis said:


> Getting ready to leave next week for WSJ. I decided to rent a car for most of the trip. What portion of St John is driveable without 4 wheel drive? Just Cruz Bay? Also, I was contemplating ordering from the grocery villa delivery, but wanted to know if those that had used it thougt it was worth it? I know that there are stores in town, so is it best just to wait until the next morning and go grocery shopping then? Or should we order the bare minimum from the villa delivery and supplement at the grocery store? I read that grocery prices are 20-25% higher in the Virgin Islands, but the Westin website says they are 2-3 times higher (200-300%?!?) higher. I don't know who to believe.



My opinion... if you are going to rent a car why pre-order groceries?  True also if you do not rent a car.  You can actually walk to StJ Market (open late) next to the resort - and StarFish Market is also very close (we go to both for different things depending on stock).

Make sure you look at expiration dates for perishable items.

If you rent a car on StJ - I am not sure you even get a choice of whether or not you get a non-4WD.  I am not sure if I have ever seen a rental company on StJ that had non-4WD vehicles, but perhaps so?

You can get a regular car on StT and take the car barge - but again I would still rent a 4WD.  Is your reasoning trying to save a few dollars?  If so, you may want to consider the risk versus the savings.  We rent a 4WD on StT and take the car barge over - this works well for us.  After 6 years of visiting StJ (and being a good driver and know most of the roads on StJ) - I still rent a 4WD - it is just safer overall - especially when it rains as it will most assurredly happen.  Also realize that the drive on the left with cars that have the driver side on the left (American style cars) - this mean that while you go around a corner - the driver is on the outside part of the lane.  Many have a hard time with this - and can be harrowing at times as the roads are narrow.  I have a rule of no screaming (e.g. 'watch-out!') for my passengers - the only thing they are allowed to comment is to remind me to 'Stay Left' - especially when taking off from a parking lot.

Most of StJ is driveable (on pavement) w/o a 4WD - I think the only place you could not get to is Lameshur Bay area as it has a bumpy dirt road.  However, I would recommend that a StJ visitor get a 4WD (esp a newbie)because when it rains the road can get very slippery - especially as you go from bay to bay on the northside (steep with sharp turns) - not sure why you would want to risk hitting something while on vacation.  Even with a 4WD - make sure the tires are good and the brakes work well.

I have YouTube videos (blujahz) of driving on Gifft Rd (that is behind the Westin and takes you up/down from Centerline that I would be afraid to drive w/o 4WD) - there is no need to take this road as you can go around thru town, and the Road to Lameshur Bay on the other side of the island (beyond Salt Pond).

Have a great trip.

Added - the liquor at the duty free at STT is not cheaper than the liquor at the StarFish Liquor store next to the StarFish market - if it is - it isn't by very much that would make it worth it carrying (it is hot/humid) - also becareful with buying perishables for the trip over as they will be warm/hot by the time you get to your villa.  I am not sure if it is worth buying anything in StT to save a few $s - we have tried this and it seems like a waste compared to the effort.
It also depends on what you buy - I always have to remind the shoppers to watch out what they are purchasing after someone bought 2 can of olives for $10 each (ouch!).  But in reality - they are more expensive, but no incredibly so for most items.  We used to bring a lot of stuff with us (frozen beef and chicken) - but this has changed over the years - especially after the StJ Market went in.  You will be disappointed with most fruits and veggies - and some of these prices are crazy.
There is a thread somewhere that lists the things we bring - we fill our check-in bags to exactly 50# each - I have a hand-held scale that comes in very handy for trips to StJ and to HI (especially after they made me repack our bags at the LIH check-in counter for 1 bag being over by 2#).
Oh yeah... one thing we find extremely handy to bring is a Brita water filter as we go thru a lot of water and it seriously adds up.  We also bring our own coffee (Peets - as we are coffee snobs)


----------



## alexadeparis

Ok, so my questions will make more sense I will add a few more details so that you can advise me. 

We are arriving to STT on a Sunday night at about 8pm. From what I have read the car ferries stop earlier than this. Originally, because of the driving on the wrong side of the road thing, we weren't going to rent a car at all and just take taxis and such. 

At the last minute, hubby decides he wants a car, so now the only cars available are regular cars via the agencies on STT, all the 4wd say "sold out" on Avis and Budget (which I have read are the only rental agencies that will let you take the car to St John). So it's not really a saving $ thing, but more of an availability issue on short notice. 

So now, since we are coming in so late Sunday, I figured we would take a passenger ferry to WSJ and then the next day ferry over to STT and pick up the car then and go grocery shopping at that time. 
But, again, because of the late hour of arrival, I don't know if/when we will really have a chance to eat, and the convenience of having food already in the room might be nice. (My understanding is that they will put it in your room before you get there) So, should I just try to wing it, grab dinner at the airport, and grocery shop the next morning? Thoughts?


----------



## DavidnRobin

alexadeparis said:


> Ok, so my questions will make more sense I will add a few more details so that you can advise me.
> 
> We are arriving to STT on a Sunday night at about 8pm. From what I have read the car ferries stop earlier than this. Originally, because of the driving on the wrong side of the road thing, we weren't going to rent a car at all and just take taxis and such.
> 
> At the last minute, hubby decides he wants a car, so now the only cars available are regular cars via the agencies on STT, all the 4wd say "sold out" on Avis and Budget (which I have read are the only rental agencies that will let you take the car to St John). So it's not really a saving $ thing, but more of an availability issue on short notice.
> 
> So now, since we are coming in so late Sunday, I figured we would take a passenger ferry to WSJ and then the next day ferry over to STT and pick up the car then and go grocery shopping at that time.
> But, again, because of the late hour of arrival, I don't know if/when we will really have a chance to eat, and the convenience of having food already in the room might be nice. (My understanding is that they will put it in your room before you get there) So, should I just try to wing it, grab dinner at the airport, and grocery shop the next morning? Thoughts?



aha...  I am a strong believer in renting a vehicle - others less so.

YouTube video 'Road to Lameshur'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sviOZLCqdcA
(makes me want to go...)

Arriving at 8pm does alter the situation - btw, we rent from Amelia on StT.

Sounds like you plan to take the Westin ferry to get over to WSJ - probably a good idea at that time of night - especially if your flight gets delayed.  My brother got stuck on StT for the nite a while back - not fun - not fun at all.

I would not bother to go back to StT just to rent a car - not worth the effort - just rent on StJ as it is not much different in price - especially considering time and expense (incl car barge costs...) and that it is in RedHook and you now would have to drive across StT.  The groceries are not that much cheaper on StT - the stores on StJ are just fine (especially now-a-days).

My advice would be to rent a 4WD on StJ - either on-site at O'Connor (hate them) or in Cruz Bay (many good places).  An advantage with some Cruz Bay rentals is that you can park in their lot (if available) as parking can be tough in Cruz Bay.
It also depends if you are staying on the Hillside or BV section - the Hillside section allows you to park right outside your villa which is really nice - we timed our villa to Trunk Bay at 17 mins - that has tremedous value (IMO and our fellow travelers opinion) - heck, we do not even get down to the main resort much, but that is us... My friend was just saying that in 3 years - they had only been down to the main pool once and that was for lunch at Snorkels.

As you will get to the resort late - stores will be closed - so either have a small pre-stock, eat at WSJ or taxi to Cruz Bay - or tough it out.  I would eat at WSJ or Cruz Bay (if not too late) and walk to StJ market in the morning.  You may want to pick-up your Owners package (if you get one) as they have a coupon for StJ market (excellent for big shopping)


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## alexadeparis

Actually, I was going to take the Varlack Ventures Ferry which has an hourly ferry from red hook to cruz bay, not the Westin Ferry. I really don't see the value in it now that we are going to be renting a car.  I did want to spend at least 3 days exploring St Thomas, so I guess renting from either St Thomas or St John wouldn't matter provided I could lock down a reservation before leaving. 

I have read on this thread that there is very much an island state of mind, where things like timeliness and reservations may not mean much. So, I am a little wary of an "independent" car rental place - but if they had online reservations I might be a little more confident.


----------



## DavidnRobin

If you are expecting people in the USVI to be in-tune with the internet and web uses for doing things like making reservations - you may need to lower your expectations (you'll see)

I am not following and trying to help (but maybe should give up...)
How are you planning to get from STT to WSJ when you arrive at STT at 8PM on a Sunday nite?  Taking the public passenger ferry from RedHook?  How many people do you have with you?  be aware that prices are per person and luggage is also charged.  Then you are going to get back on the public ferry to get back to StT to pick-up a car (because Avis and Budget have web access?) or to visit StT - hmmmmm - I am at a loss for words - I do not think you are accounting for the hassle factor.  That is no way I would want to spend my vacation, but YMMV.

We have gone by almost every means possible (except private taxi) - you may be discounting how hot/humid it is once you get off that plane and how chaotic things are on StT.  I would highly advise to make it easy on yourself as possible.

We used the public ferry and taxi system during our first visit - and that was the last - it is the cheapest way to go, but only if cost is your #1 priority.

The Westin ferry allows for unlimited rides between StT and StJ - although expensive - it does have it's advantages.  

You want to explore StT for 3 days?  How many days are you planning to be in the USVI?  I have a feeling you will be tremendously disappointed with StT relative to StJ.  Usually when I am  on StT - I just want to get off StT and be on StJ. We have been to StJ for 6 years now - for 14 days at a time over the last 3 years - and I never grow tired of it nor have seen everything. Our time on StT is usually just to get to StJ


----------



## alexadeparis

The only reason why I don't want to pick up a car when I get there Sunday night is the lack of car ferries available late evening. 

But eventually, no matter where I rent the car, I will want to go to the other island with it. Unless you think it's best to rent a car for the day once I get to each island? This seems odd, but if that's the best way, that's fine.

This is why I am asking people that have been there. I looked up one of the rental agencies in St John and it looks like they charge $1,000 if you try to take the car to St Thomas. Is this the normal policy, not to allow you to take the car to the other island? If so, I think we will just do cabs after all.


----------



## DavidnRobin

alexadeparis said:


> The only reason why I don't want to pick up a car when I get there Sunday night is the lack of car ferries available late evening.
> 
> But eventually, no matter where I rent the car, I will want to go to the other island with it. Unless you think it's best to rent a car for the day once I get to each island? This seems odd, but if that's the best way, that's fine.
> 
> This is why I am asking people that have been there. I looked up one of the rental agencies in St John and it looks like they charge $1,000 if you try to take the car to St Thomas. Is this the normal policy, not to allow you to take the car to the other island? If so, I think we will just do cabs after all.



I see your issue - getting from STT to WSJ at that time of night only leaves you the public ferry - I am not even sure how the WSJ would even deal with getting you from STT to WSJ on their ferry.  Regardless, they would be leaving out of RedHook at that time of night anyway. From the time you get your luggage to get to RedHook is probably going to be ~45 mins depending... at least their will be no traffic.  Keep in mind that the 'taxis' are taxi-buses that can/do pickup/dropoff along the way - will be about $12-15pp and likely other people on the taxi - the ferry fee is $6pp plus $2.50 per large bag.  Then once you get to Cruz Bay - another $6pp to WSJ on a taxi-bus.

How many days do you plan on spending in the USVI?  If it is something like 7 days - I would strongly suggest zero time on StT (other than to/from STT), and instead try and get over to the BVIs (Virgin Gorda, Jost Van Dyke, Norman Island) via charter.

I would not be surprised that StJ rental agencies do not let their vehicles go to StT - they are probably thinking to themselves 'why would you want to do that?'  I have never heard of someone taking a StJ rental car to StT, and I have already stated my opinion on this, but you seem to think that there is something worth seeing on StT - and there probably is, but mainly if you are staying on StT - or have never been to StJ.  I think that you will see what I am talking about once you get there.

You could consider taking the passenger ferry back to StT and taking taxis on StT to get around.  StT is way more crazy than StJ and harder to get around.

Check-out vinow.com if you haven't already.

OK - so now you have made your way to WSJ from STT via taxi/ferry/taxi late on a Sunday night - depending on your arrival time at WSJ - you may have a hard time finding food - even at the resort.  Therefore, it may be worth your while to have some pre-stock.  Then you may want to rent a car - I would suggest arranging something from Cruz Bay - they may bring the car out to you at the WSJ - or you can take a taxi into CB and pick-up there.  I have rented from O'Connor on-site, but they are so unpleasant - it may be worth it to go to CB and get a vehicle from a place that will let you park on their lot.  (St John Rental - perhaps?).  I rented from Conrad-Sutton - same lousy customer experience but at least entertaining.  I would really forego expecting to rent via a website (I do not even think this method exists for on-line rentals in StJ - they have web-sites, but you still will have to send email or just call - remembering pleasantries and that the accent can be very strong - but no worries - they will have your vehicle even though you may wonder after getting off the phone...).

I really like having a vehicle on StJ - as it gives you way more freedom - especially if you are in the Hillside villas - make sure you get over to Coral Bay.  'Stay Left'

Ok - enough... I suggest you read up on trip-reports that I and others have posted - some may be dated, but will give you a flavor.  I have a feeling once you see StT - you will think better of making the effort to get over there.  I may be wrong, but we shall see.  

Have a great trip - wish we were going.


----------



## pharmgirl

Why don,t you stay at a St thomas hotel the night you get there, relax and see what you want on st Thomas.  Pick up the car in afternoon and drive to red hook, take the ferry over to stjohn


----------



## alexadeparis

pharmgirl said:


> Why don,t you stay at a St thomas hotel the night you get there, relax and see what you want on st Thomas.  Pick up the car in afternoon and drive to red hook, take the ferry over to stjohn



We are debating doing this also. Or we may just wait until we get to WSJ and decide if we need a car once we have settled in. I don't want to drive a regular car if it's dangerous. The whole "stay left" thing scared me off originally.

I have read the trip reports, and it seemed like everyone that went without a car the first time got one the second time around after they learned better. So that's why I started rethinking hiring a car.


----------



## DavidnRobin

pharmgirl said:


> Why don,t you stay at a St thomas hotel the night you get there, relax and see what you want on st Thomas.  Pick up the car in afternoon and drive to red hook, take the ferry over to stjohn



Or this...
Great suggestion - especially if flight is late


----------



## DavidnRobin

alexadeparis said:


> We are debating doing this also. Or we may just wait until we get to WSJ and decide if we need a car once we have settled in. I don't want to drive a regular car if it's dangerous. The whole "stay left" thing scared me off originally.
> 
> I have read the trip reports, and it seemed like everyone that went without a car the first time got one the second time around after they learned better. So that's why I started rethinking hiring a car.



As long as there is at least 1 good driver - and take it slow and Stay Left and don't worry about locals (driving) - it really is not a big deal.  The only issue you will have is finding the car barge in RedHook (not that tough) - there are starfish signs that lead to RH - and get a 4WD (what is up with getting a regular car?) and use Amalie (their cars are all new and very well taken care) - plus great people who will help out.  Make the most out of your trip - you spend the time/effort and $$ to go there - make the most of it.


The speed limit on StJ is 25mph... Only 7-9 miles long and 3 miles wide - yet 45 mins to Salt Pond.  There are no stop lights - the roads in the NPS are well maintained thanks to Fed funding.  Locals (kids) may fly by you - just take it slow


----------



## NerdAlert

*Any Report for Annual Meeting of VGV 3/19/12*

Does anyone have any info about the annual meeting at WSJ 3/19/12? Like who won the election? And any other info?


----------



## jerseygirl

Bob was reelected.


----------



## LisaRex

alexadeparis said:


> We are arriving to STT on a Sunday night at about 8pm.



As far as ferry choices, You can: 

1) Pay $120 (+ tips) per person and let Westin make all the arrangements.  This will especially come in handy if your flight happens to be delayed and you arrive past midnight, when the last public ferry departs from Red Hook.  I've heard that they'll arrange private water taxis to St. John, if needed. Just gather your luggage and walk to the Westin counter, which is located right in baggage claim.  Plus, the ferry pass includes unlimited trips back and forth to St. Thomas, and that sounds like it intrigues you.  

2) For much cheaper, you can arrange transportation on your own. Gather your luggage at the airport, then walk outside and hail a taxi to Red Hook.  Walk into the ferry depot, turn left and purchase your passenger + luggage tickets from the lady at the counter.  I believe ferries depart at the top of the hour, up until midnight.  

Once you get to Cruz Bay, it's just a short taxi ride to the Westin.  Either look for the taxis that say "Westin" on top, or take any taxi and ask them to take you to the front desk, which BTW isn't at the front.  

As far as eating, there are some restaurants on St. Thomas a short walk from Red Hook, but you'll be hauling luggage, so that'll be awkward. And it'll be dark and you won't be acclimated to the area. (Plus, Red Hook can get a little seedy, so use your best judgment.) There are also tons of restaurants in Cruz Bay, which I assume will be open at 9:30pm or so. That might be your best bet, but once again, you'll be hauling your luggage, so pack light!

As far as the car rental goes, I agree that there's no need to return to St. Thomas to rent a car. I also agree that 3 days on St. Thomas sounds excessive.  We spent one day on St. Thomas and that was plenty.  It's just an entirely different flavor than St. John, and I think you'll like the latter much better.


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## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> Bob was reelected.



Thanks for the update - you are way more in the loop than me.  Was this posted somewhere?
I guess Tom couldn't get enough support - did they actually get a quorum?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*And the winner is...*

now for some real news...

Best Bushwhacker - Beach Bar - 1st Place, Shipwreck Landing - 2nd place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqPXYMoXty0&feature=youtu.be

outside of One Love on JVD (when the electricity is working) - I tend to agree.


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## WildJohn

*Regarding the election*

Here are the election results:

winner is Bob  - 52109 (due to over 38000 votes held by board which
went to him)
Tom had 10408 votes.
Tom actually won the online vote over Bob (9880 to 9116)

While I happen to like Bob, I don't know that I like the way in which he won.  It seems like Tom won the "popular" vote but the Board, which has 4 times the voting power of an individual owner, put their support behind Bob.  

How can the board, which only owns approx 10% of VGV, have 38,000 votes and the combined total of all owners who voted only was about 20,000?  As Dave indicated, I wonder if there really was a quorum.


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## jarta

WildJohn,   ...   "How can the board, which only owns approx 10% of VGV, have 38,000 votes"

Because the HOA board gets to vote the proxies returned to it by owners which give it authority to vote for those owners (both developer and non-developer) on contested issues.  Additionally, some proxies are returned just for the purpose of a quorum.  Those proxies do not even show in the final vote totals.

These reasons have nothing to do with retained weighted voting by the developer - for which you are willing to place all the blame for your guy not winning.  But, I expect you may already know that.

BTW, take away the 38K votes from the board.  In round numbers 52K - 38K = 14K votes.  How does 10.4K votes win?   Salty


----------



## DavidnRobin

WildJohn said:


> Here are the election results:
> 
> winner is Bob  - 52109 (due to over 38000 votes held by board which
> went to him)
> Tom had 10408 votes.
> Tom actually won the online vote over Bob (9880 to 9116)
> 
> While I happen to like Bob, I don't know that I like the way in which he won.  It seems like Tom won the "popular" vote but the Board, which has 4 times the voting power of an individual owner, put their support behind Bob.
> 
> How can the board, which only owns approx 10% of VGV, have 38,000 votes and the combined total of all owners who voted only was about 20,000?  As Dave indicated, I wonder if there really was a quorum.



Hi WildJohn -

I mentioned the quorum because often Owners fail to vote for a variety of reasons - which has occurred in the past (e.g. the 1st vote for the refurbish which was overwhelmingly supported, but failed to get a quorum - which eventually led to an Owners revolt - which led to Phil&Bob getting elected despite the unfair balance of SVO votes).

jarta is correct about the voting - as with many things TS-related  - be careful of the fuzzy math and interpretation - and the tendency to replace facts with 'truthism' as to be aligned with what feels real.
The BOD better hurry up and start increasing MFs if they want them to go up 3x by 2016 as predicted - sorry couldn't help myself...:ignore: 
#NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement


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## jerseygirl

Starwood is permitted four votes for each of its holdings (but not four for each voter proxy).  Based on the numbers, I'd say they used their right.  In fact, in the last contested election, they (Starwood) wrote to us and promised they weren't going to exercise their "four times" right.  Funny, we didn't get that promise this time, did we?


----------



## jarta

jerseygirl,   ...   I think what happened is that the 2 members elected last time took a look at the WSJ books and repair situation and decided that Starwood was doing a fairly good job of managing WSJ and was not stealing the owners blind - as others have suggested.  Those perpetually POed who, without evidence, want fights with Starwood merely for the sake of having fights with Starwood lost.

Again, if numbers posted by WildJohn are correct and the 38K board votes are removed from the equation, Bob had 14K votes, Tom had around 10.4K votes, Bob won and Tom lost.  Get over it and work with the people you helped elect 2 years ago to make further reductions in the MF at WSJ.   ...   eom


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## DeniseM

jarta said:


> jerseygirl,   ...



Just so you know, I don't believe that jerseygirl "sees" your posts, so she probably won't respond...


----------



## jarta

Her loss.  Salty


----------



## bobpark56

LisaRex said:


> As far as ferry choices, You can:
> 
> 1) Pay $120 (+ tips) per person and let Westin make all the arrangements.  <snip>.



That's not quite correct. The round-trip fare for juveniles (ages 4-17) is only $90, and WSJ owners get a $10 discount off the $120 rate if they ask. Also, baggage handling is included in the price, so tips for that are not needed.

I don't know whether the discount is available to other Starwood owners or not, but it might pay to ask.


----------



## WildJohn

*For the Record*

Jarta,

For the record, I voted for Bob. You do have a point.  Even if the board members had only one vote and they put it towards Bob, he would have won.  I was just concerned that he might have won for the wrong reasons.  Now I know everything was fair and square and it would be difficult for anyone to challenge the results.  Thanks for pointing that out.

John


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## jarta

WildJohn,   ...   There were 2 contestants for 1 board position.  One got more owner votes than the other - even without any board votes.  Thus, board votes did not affect the outcome of the election.  IMO, there are no "wrong reasons" for declaring the winner to be the high vote-getter when that occurs.

But, take heart!  You backed the winner!  Salty


----------



## DavidnRobin

For the record - I gave my vote to Phil to decide to do what he thought best for the HOA - since he has a clearer view of things, and I trust and respect him (from 1st hand experiences)

WSJ owners should go back and peruse this thread - and my reason for starting it back in 2008 (the most read and most posted thread - of course most are my posts  ).  I was PMing with a fellow owner and it got me to thinking... too bad WSJ owners do not share their thoughts and issues (including likes) on this thread anymore - we had great momentum that lead to important changes that were difficult to overcome in regards to SVO given the bylaws.
Too bad... But that won't stop me (sadly for some I assume)
Peace.

Added: it was kcgriffin who started it all...
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62138
{note: this is Jan 2008 thread - my oh my - how far we have come in a short time...)

jarta - there were only 2 people running for the board position? I may have bad brain syndrome, but I recall more than 2 - watch out for revisionist history.  [_Political comment removed_]

I rented my 2 weeks this year - woohoo!
Too bad we will miss our 1st year after 6 visits in a row - but at least i didnt have to bank my weeks. Looking forward to June 2013 already.

Have they remodeled the patio/BBQ area between the buildings yet?


----------



## DavidnRobin

Alexa - as LisaR said - you DO NOT want to drag luggage around - 1st hand experience from our first visit.  Please let ius knows how your trip goes.


----------



## jarta

David,   ...   The previous posts were directed to the top 2 vote getters and how they had done against each other.  Those top vote getters were Bob Werbel and Tom Clemente.  I was posting in that context about who, between them, won.

1.  I never used the word "only" when talking about the election or the 2 contestants.  I was no more engaging in "revisionist history" than WildJohn was when he only mentioned Tom and Bob concerning the election.

2. [_Reply to political comment removed_]

3. [_Further reply to political comment removed_

The only reason I can see for your lapse in judgment is that you were able to rent your 2 WSJ weeks and the elation of getting out from under the MF temporarily affected your better judgment.  Salty (spicy and salty differ from filthy)


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## DavidnRobin

Salty - you post states specifically 2 contestants for 1 position - I knew what you intended, but it is not what you wrote in case others not so familiar with the recent vote.
The rest was sarcasm... Which I noted since you accused me of not being clear of this message... eom


----------



## Westin5Star

DavidnRobin said:


> now for some real news...
> 
> Best Bushwhacker - Beach Bar - 1st Place, Shipwreck Landing - 2nd place
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqPXYMoXty0&feature=youtu.be
> 
> outside of One Love on JVD (when the electricity is working) - I tend to agree.



Willy T's!!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

Westin5Star said:


> Willy T's!!!



Willy T's makes a great Bushwhacker?  I need to check this out - unfortunately not until June 2013.

Of course - after a couple of Bushwhackers - this sign is totally disregarded...


----------



## jerseygirl

And don't forget to discourage drunk young women from trying to help you pull your boat in david:hysterical:


----------



## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> And don't forget to discourage drunk young women from trying to help you pull your boat in david:hysterical:



I was trying to find that video - for those who are wondering - we rented a bareboat (SeeNSki) with a friend from StT who knows the area, and at the end of the day went to Willie T's (which is a boat in 'The Bight' at Norman Island (BVI)) When we pulled up to the dock - for some reason a very drunk - fully clothed - women decided to help us (which we didn't need) and promptly fell off the side between the Wille T and our boat - and somehow it was our fault...  I have a video of her squeezing out her clothes with a snarl on her face - very funny (since she didn't get injured).  The sign is ironic since people jump off the side and it is rumored - that unfortunately I have never seen - that women who jump off topless get a T-shirt.  I tried to convince Robin to do it, but she is just no fun...  

side-story - in 1991 - before the internet and GPS - we were bareboat* sailing the BVI and went to The Bight on our 1st night out of Tortola - we heard this party going on in a large boat close to us - which we decided to crash - and it turned out to be the old Wille T's (which burned down in the late 90s).  We started to play Tequila Pigs with the Bartender - who went on a brutal losing streak and got too drunk to tend bar - so we took over.  One of our boat members got way too drunk and decided to swim back to our sailboat and luckily did not drown, but we found him hanging on to the side of the Wille T very scratched-up.  He spent the next day getting sick down below while we sailed - he never touched a drink again.

Now, back to our regularily scheduled programming...

* bareboat is sailing/motoring w/o a captain


----------



## jerseygirl

That was a fun day David.  DD looks back fondly on her jump (not topless, TG) with Stu (who was supposed to be the responsible one in the group, lol).  Maybe next time I'll have a few more drinks and get brave/foolish enough to do it (with top on, of course!).


----------



## DavidnRobin

jerseygirl said:


> That was a fun day David.  DD looks back fondly on her jump (not topless, TG) with Stu (who was supposed to be the responsible one in the group, lol).  Maybe next time I'll have a few more drinks and get brave/foolish enough to do it (with top on, of course!).



I have video on FB of your DD and Stu jumping off the Wille T - she mentioned that she hurt her shoulder - I hope it healed.
Our own W5* - met up with Stu for a day cruise, and after meeting W5* - Stu said to me 'Snorkeling is like crack to that guy'... thought I'd share -sounds like his photo fits him.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Driving from STT to RedHook*

And for the 1000th post on this thread :whoopie: - I thought I'd post something useful for those deciding to rent a car on StT and take the car barge over to StJ.

*Here's the general direction on how to drive from STT to RedHook where the car barges are (~45 mins depending on traffic which depends on Cruise ships in town):*
Turn right out of the airport and continue along the waterfront (thru Charlotte Amalie) through several lights until the very end where you take a left at the light. The WICO cruise ship and Havensight Mall and Yacht Haven Grande will be on your right. A Pueblo Supermarket will be kitty-corner across the street and you'll pass by (on the left) a small KMart and MacDonalds, etc. Stay in the right lane and at the next light take a right onto Rte 38. You'll go up Raphune Hill which segues into Weymouth Rhymer Highway (CostULess is close to here) - continue on Rte 38 which will take you past Wyndham Sugar Bay, Point Pleasant, Sapphire, etc. and all the way into Red Hook where the ferry terminal will be on your left.  There are Starfish signs that say RedHook on them - follow these - stay on Rte 38 and all should be fine.

Just take whichever barge is leaving first and best advised to get a one-way ticket as they don't honor each other's tickets and you don't want to get hung up on your return trip.They back the vehicles on the barges and pack them in like sardines - just follow the person guiding you.  There is a small fee (for some reason) as you enter the lot where the cars are lined up to get on the barges.  The entrance to the car barge lot is a bit hard to see, but it is right next to the passenger ferry terminal. There is no parking lot fee on the StJ side.  Feel free to get out of the car on the barge and check out the surrounds - quite beautiful.  (You'll soon see the vast differences between StT and StJ) 

As you exit the car barge on StJ - follow the other vehicles out to the main road on the south-side - Rte 104 - make a right (Cruz Bay is to the left) and follow Rte 104 by the StarFish Market and then up and over a steep hill (called Jacobs Ladder for a reason - it is blind at the top) - after your passengers have just screamed as you proceed over the apex and go downhill - there will be another market on the left - StJ Market - and right beyond this an entrance to the Westin on the right (and left) - take the right side entrance to the check-in - you will need to park below the main building (by a group of stores and the Westin workout center and Spa) and walk up to check-in at the main building.

(whew! - make sure you look at google maps to gain orientation to what I just described for both StT and StJ - the google map is wrong for the car barge - the car barge now goes into Large Pond - aka Enighed Pond - not Cruz Bay.  The Westin is on Great Cruz Bay)


----------



## Westin5Star

*As you can see I don't follow rules very well:*



DavidnRobin said:


> Willy T's makes a great Bushwhacker?  I need to check this out - unfortunately not until June 2013.
> 
> Of course - after a couple of Bushwhackers - this sign is totally disregarded...



Oops I fell- It must have been that Bushwacker!


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Message from WSJ-VGV HOA BOD Owner Reps*

March 2012
Message From Your Virgin Grand Owner-Elected Representatives

Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Owner: 
As you know, we are your owner-elected representatives on the Board of Directors of the Virgin Grand Villas - St. John Condominium Owners Association. We have recently returned from the 2012 annual meeting and a regular Board meeting. Prior to the actual meeting, we toured the property to check on the status of ongoing improvements.

*Property update:*
Except for a few punch list items and the restoration of some foliage, the refurbishing project is complete, and no additional funds will have to be devoted to that project. The buildings have new stucco and new roofs, doors and windows. We have received many supportive notes from owners who like the new look of the buildings and the noise-reducing, energy-efficient doors and windows. We continue to appreciate owner feedback (positive or negative).

The pool between building 31 and 32 has been resurfaced, and the deck around it has been re-tiled. The new tiles are a real hit with owners to whom we have talked, because they do not get hot even in direct sunlight. The waterfall has been replaced, and the pool area now has improved, built-in grills. The entrance to the pool area between buildings 31 and 32 has been rebuilt; there is now a ramp that can accommodate a wheelchair. In the near future, a lift will be installed at the side of the pool to enable people with limited mobility to enter the water. This will bring the pool into compliance with the new regulations under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Also, while some plantings were lost during the reconstruction, the pool area will soon acquire new landscaping to make it more attractive. Later this year, the same improvements will be made to the pool between buildings 33 and 34, and that pool will then be compliant with the new ADA regulations. That pool will be out of service for about three weeks during construction.

We observed that there is, at present, no awning or bench for people to use while waiting at the iguana stop in front of the pool between buildings 31 and 32. Management agreed that shade and a bench should be restored, and options are currently being considered. Similarly, the upper pool will have an awning and a bench after the resurfacing and other improvements have been completed.

We are aware that not much shade is provided by the umbrellas at the tables on the two pool decks, and that there is essentially no shade over any of the chaises on those decks. We have asked management to investigate whether some additional shade can be provided at a reasonable cost, though such a project is complicated by the fact that the wind on the hillside might be inconsistent with solutions that would work at lower levels.

In buildings 41 and 42, the pools and patios have been resurfaced, new pipes have been installed, and the waterfalls and lights in the pools have been replaced. New built-in grills have been installed. In buildings 43 and 44, new grills and new outdoor spas will be installed this year. In buildings 41, 42 and 44, thirty-nine (39) individual air conditioners have been removed and replaced with central chilled water plant (pictured below) for all four buildings.

This change will lower electricity costs and therefore help to keep maintenance as low as possible. In addition, solar water heating evacuated glass tubes, not visible from the ground, have been installed on the roofs of those buildings. These tubes absorb heat from sunlight and, through heat exchanger, provide over 80% of the domestic hot water to the four buildings, further cutting our electric bill. Finally, the first group of photovoltaic cells will be installed on the roofs of those four buildings within the next few months and will also cut our electric bill. These cells are projected to save us up to 40,000 kilowatts per year. Later in the year, a second set of photovoltaic cells will be installed on the hillside, in an area that will not be an eyesore. Thirty-seven (37) pool pumps have been replaced with energy-saving equipment, and 650 light fixtures, using 75 to 100 watts each, are being replaced with 13 watt LED bulbs. The resort has already cut electrical consumption by 50% since 2008. At a current cost of 44 cents per kilowatt-hour in the U.S. Virgin Islands, these savings are substantial. You can help, too: please turn off air conditioning and interior lights while you are out of your unit during the day. This will help significantly to keep down future maintenance fee increases. 

One more minor notes,

--We noticed that only one towel hook graces the bathrooms in the studios and one-bedroom units. More towel hooks have been ordered and will be installed over the course of the next year (probably during the one week each year when the unit is out of service for maintenance).

--The television and internet systems are being upgraded. The new television system will include PBS-TV and many of the channels will be in HD. HBO is being replaced by Showtime; this is a system-wide change for the entire Starwood system. 

--A telephone has been placed in the main parking lot near the fitness center, so if you park there with luggage or groceries, you will not have to enter the fitness center or walk to the main lobby to call for a cart to go to your villa.

--The engineering department has begun a program of inspecting every unit for engineering problems (such as poorly functioning ovens or refrigerators) every three months.

--We are considering whether folding chairs could be stored in the closets of the two-bedroom units so that four people could have breakfast on the balconies.

--We have hired an acoustical engineer to advise us whether a sound barrier could be provided in the upstairs bedroom in buildings 41 and 42 to provide greater privacy to people occupying the two wings of that bedroom without creating a permanent wall that would require unanimous approval of all owners of the unit in question.

--Management is checking on the costs of putting waterproof cushions on the wooden balcony chairs.

*Election of a director: *
Robert Werbel was re-elected to a three-year term as an owner-elected director. The Board had appointed a proxy committee to vote shares for which proxies were not received, as required by the bylaws. A sufficiently large number of proxies were submitted and while the proxy committee did vote, the votes of the proxy committee did not change the outcome of the election. Mr. Werbel received the highest number of votes in combination of both limited and general proxies prior to the submission of the proxy committee votes. 

*Owners' electronic bulletin board:*
As you know from our previous reports, management has been working to create a secure website for Virgin Grand owners on which an owner could (a) offer to exchange a unit with another owner, (b) offer a unit for rent, (c) indicate a week that the owner wanted to rent, (d) offer to sell a unit, or (e) indicate a desire to buy a particular unit type and week. The site would also enable owners to update their contact information and would include the on-line voluntary directory of owners. The project has moved more slowly than we hoped because of technical challenges, but we hope to have it active by the end of June. Taking the extra time to make sure the site will function properly and be self-administrating is worth waiting a little longer.

*Rental of units on which maintenance had not been paid: *
Last year, we were able to offer Virgin Grand owners a ten-day window during which they could rent, for the price of the maintenance fee, units that were unavailable to the owners because the owners had not paid their maintenance fee. The net rental paid by the owner was paid to our owners association and credited to the account of the delinquent owner. We hoped that this win-win-win offer could be repeated in 2012. However, management reported that only 15 units were rented in this manner last year, and that the cost of administering a special offer on last year's model could not be justified by the small revenue received. 

Management is therefore working to develop a new system through which Virgin Grand owners could rent additional days or weeks (full week rentals would not be required), online, at any time during the year, at a substantial discount from Starwood's best available rate. The inventory would include not only units on which the maintenance fee was delinquent but also days or weeks still owned by Starwood and days or weeks acquired by the association through foreclosure or alternative processes and not yet sold to new owners. The rental income from time periods at the disposal of the association would be shared with Starwood to compensate it for its administrative costs. The Board asked management to report to it on alternative pricing models, with a view to determining the discount from Starwood's best available rate that would maximize the revenue by the Association.

*Week 53:*
We raised the issue of rental income from "Week 53", the week of use that occurs every few years becase a year last longer than 52 weeks. When Week 53 units are rented, who should receive the revenue: Starwood, or the owners association? We were informed that Starwood's position is that it never conveyed the use of Week 53 to the association, and therefore (a) it has no duty to pay maintenance fees on the week in question and (b) it may rent those weeks and keep all revenue. That is not our opinion. In our view, the original developers conveyed the entire property - all the land and all the weeks - for condominium use, and Starwood could not take back part of the property (that is, the right to receive revenue from Week 53) when it acquired the resort some years later. Neither interpretation is entirely free from doubt, so we asked that the Board obtain the opinion of an independent counsel, unaffiliated with Starwood, on this issue. The Board agreed to do so. The Board further agreed that we, as the two elected directors, select the counsel. (Note: At present, owners who own both week 52 and week 1 are offered the option of exchanging one of those weeks for week 53 when it occurs, and in any event we plan to continue to offer that exchange so that their weeks are not interrupted by a hiatus in which they have no housing).

*Delinquencies, foreclosures, and resales:* 
The delinquency rate is slightly lower than it was at the same date for the last two years, perhaps a sign that the recession is lifting. Nevertheless, about 180 accounts remain delinquent and are not producing revenue for the association, requiring the rest of us to pay their share of operating costs. The owners in question are not permitted to use their units, and in addition we are moving to recover them through foreclosure (or, in appropriate cases, by allowing the owners to turn in their deeds in exchange for forgiveness of past due fees). We are working with counsel to foreclose in cases where the deeds are not relinquished through mutual agreement. Foreclosure proceedings have begun against 80 of those accounts, and other proceedings will be initiated. In addition, 26 unit weeks have been turned over to the association. Of these, 15 were sold to Virgin Grand owners in good standing at bargain prices through a special offer this year. Eleven (11) unit weeks remain in the possession of the association. A reminder: if you are in arrears and want to offer to turn in your deed in exchange for a release of your debt to the association, write one of us and we will put you in touch with Starwood Vacation Ownership's attorney.

*Reserve audit:*
We budgeted last year for a one-time expense to have our replacement reserve program independently audited by an outside company. That audit will be performed by a company called Association Reserves, and we will have the report in time for budgeting for 2013. 

*Two personal notes:*
We noticed that the *Freecycle shed*, while very popular with owners in principle, was nearly empty when we visited it on Sunday, March 18. (By contrast, it was bursting last summer with beach chairs, children's play equipment, snorkel equipment, and unopened beverages.) This innovative way of sharing equipment (and saving money) will only work if we owners make it work; Starwood has no duty to restock it, nor do we plan to ask the Board to provide funds from maintenance fees to keep it stocked. When you are leaving the island, please consider leaving anything that others could use in the Freecycle shed next to the roadway leading up the hillside. If two or three dozen people each brought a single beach chair and left it in the shed during the next year, our Freecycling program would be a major success. Of course, all other equipment donations would also be appreciated.

On an even more altruistic note, during our trip to the annual meeting we met with Joe Kessler, the Director of Friends of the Virgin Islands National Park, a charitable organization that through volunteers helps to keep the park clean, maintains trails, offers educational programs, and advocates for park improvements. We both joined the organization (individual memberships are $35), because we use the park when we visit St. John and know that its existence is one of the things that makes our resort unique and particularly valuable. The organization's website is Friendsvinp.org. We encourage all villa owners to check out the website and consider joining this worthwhile organization. We would also be happy to hear from owners whether they would like to have the resort organize occasional events in connection with Friends of the Virgin Islands National Park - for example, opportunities to meet with fellow owners for the morning while helping to clean a beach or trail, or attending an educational program of the organization, which might be held at the resort.

We will report again after the next Board meeting at the end of June. 

Philip Schrag
phil.schrag@gmail.com

Robert Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com


----------



## LisaRex

Thanks for posting, David.  I'm not an owner at WSJ, but I love to see how the WSJ board communicates with its owners.  I love that the Board is coming up with creative, and fair, ways to handle delinquencies.  It is the way a Board is supposed to operate.  And I wish other Boards, even those hand-picked by SVO, would operate in kind.


----------



## Ken555

LisaRex said:


> Thanks for posting, David.  I'm not an owner at WSJ, but I love to see how the WSJ board communicates with its owners.  I love that the Board is coming up with creative, and fair, ways to handle delinquencies.  It is the way a Board is supposed to operate.  And I wish other Boards, even those hand-picked by SVO, would operate in kind.



+1

Fantastic!


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Link to post with links to WSJ/StJ Trip Reports*

I couldn't find these in the thread - so here they are in case anyone is interested - likely more in these trip reports than any StJ travel book you will find... Enjoy (brings back great memories...)

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1271378&postcount=8


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## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> I couldn't find these in the thread - so here they are in case anyone is interested - likely more in these trip reports than any StJ travel book you will find... Enjoy (brings back great memories...)
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1271378&postcount=8



added link for 2011 trip report - try to add it to others, but can no longer edit.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149220


----------



## TimW1

*Important Info on Jeep Rental on St. Thomas and bringing over to St. John*

April 18, 2012


Government warns on car rentals




Image courtesy of St. John Car rental

If you're one of those people who rents a car at the St. Thomas airport, gets groceries at Tutu, and then takes the car barge across to Cruz Bay, read this.

The Bureau of Motor Vehicles has just reminded VI rental agencies and the barges it is illegal for a car rented on one island to be used on another.  

A St. Thomas-registered car cannot go on the barge to St. John. So if you want to have a car, while staying on St. John, you have to rent from a STJ agency.

The notice (read it here, thanks to NoSeeUm's blog) says vehicles can legally be used "… only on the island … and may not be used on any other island … and shall not be transported for use on any other island." Violators could be fined a minimum of $1,000.

What's this mean to you?  Well, if a St. Thomas rental company does rent you a car, and you take it to St. John, they risk having their business license revoked - and there are plenty of people who will be happy to turn them in.  For instance, the car barge companies employees are likely to be reminded how to ID a St. Thomas car. (Not so subtle tipoff: the license plate begins with STT.)  Second, folks who operate St. John car rental companies can be expected to be looking for STT cars on the island - and reporting them to Motor Vehicles.

There is no question that renting a car at the airport and then driving to Red Hook is easier than enduring 'taxi dispatch hell' at the airport and the annoyance of taking a cab but stopping at four hotels on your way to Red Hook where you may, or may not, catch the next ferry.  Then again, there are those who question whether the convenience of tourists is a high priority for STT cab drivers.


----------



## TimW1

*There have been a 60 Day Grace Period on the Above Jeep Rental Issue*

Apparently, there is a 60 day grace period for this change to take affect, unless something more drastic takes place.  If you are a person who rents a jeep on St. Thomas and brings it over on the ferry, after June 30 you will no longer be able.  Please verify with your rental company in St. Thomas if this affects you.


----------



## ekinggill

Can you provide a link to the source of this?

Thanks



TimW said:


> April 18, 2012
> 
> 
> Government warns on car rentals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image courtesy of St. John Car rental
> 
> If you're one of those people who rents a car at the St. Thomas airport, gets groceries at Tutu, and then takes the car barge across to Cruz Bay, read this.
> 
> The Bureau of Motor Vehicles has just reminded VI rental agencies and the barges it is illegal for a car rented on one island to be used on another.
> 
> A St. Thomas-registered car cannot go on the barge to St. John. So if you want to have a car, while staying on St. John, you have to rent from a STJ agency.
> 
> The notice (read it here, thanks to NoSeeUm's blog) says vehicles can legally be used "… only on the island … and may not be used on any other island … and shall not be transported for use on any other island." Violators could be fined a minimum of $1,000.
> 
> What's this mean to you?  Well, if a St. Thomas rental company does rent you a car, and you take it to St. John, they risk having their business license revoked - and there are plenty of people who will be happy to turn them in.  For instance, the car barge companies employees are likely to be reminded how to ID a St. Thomas car. (Not so subtle tipoff: the license plate begins with STT.)  Second, folks who operate St. John car rental companies can be expected to be looking for STT cars on the island - and reporting them to Motor Vehicles.
> 
> There is no question that renting a car at the airport and then driving to Red Hook is easier than enduring 'taxi dispatch hell' at the airport and the annoyance of taking a cab but stopping at four hotels on your way to Red Hook where you may, or may not, catch the next ferry.  Then again, there are those who question whether the convenience of tourists is a high priority for STT cab drivers.


----------



## DavidnRobin

ekinggill said:


> Can you provide a link to the source of this?
> 
> Thanks



http://www.on-stjohn.com/2012/04/18/sign-this-car-rental-petition-if-you-want/#comments

Including comments

There is a petition - I would suggest filling this petition out even if you do not rent on StT - my reason for this is that there only a limited number of 4WD on StJ and will give StJ rental companies more control and therefore better ability to fix prices and increase them.  Plus if you need a large vehicles, they are very limited on StJ.

Looks like USVI Gov't is taking lessons from Maui - short-sighted.

I hope StT car rental companies fight this in court, and this changes back before June 2013


----------



## TimW1

*Governor Says No!*

http://stthomassource.com/print/97666

Governor Says No to New Rental Car Rule




A day-long brouhaha over Motor Vehicle Bureau Director Jerris T. Browne’s Tuesday edict prohibiting St. Thomas-based rental cars from going on the barge to St. John ended with Gov. John deJongh Jr. putting an indefinite hold on the measure.

“Effective tonight until further notice,” Government House spokesman Jean Greaux told the Source Wednesday evening.

In a prepared statement, Greaux said the Attorney General's Office will examine both existing local and federal law to determine whether this order is in conflict with the Commerce Clause.

Additionally the governor's directive calls on Browne to make an assessment of each St. John car rental agency and determine whether there is a need to adjust the car rental company's fleet quotas.

The sudden enforcement of an old car rental law left St. Thomas car rental companies scrambling and visitors reeling as they learned they might have to change their plans. The news hit several travel forums early in the morning. By early evening, there were close to 200 entries on three separate travel forums complaining about Browne’s edict.

Many said they wouldn’t vacation on St. John any more if they had to rent their car on St. John.

“Between the rising airfare costs, closed businesses and now this?” said a comment by Caribbeanbeachchick on News of St. John. “There's more than two islands in the Caribbean. I'll take my business elsewhere thanks,” she wrote.

Companies mounted an email and phone campaign to Browne, the Tourism Department and Government House.

By midday, Browne was responding to missives from users of the travel forums that there would be a 60-day grace period rather than implement the law immediately as it initially appeared.

Greaux said the 60-day grace period was now a moot point since the governor’s order rescinds indefinitely Browne’s edict.

While Browne may have sent out form letters to those queries from travel forum sites, he did not respond to several phone calls from the Source.

St. Thomas resident Anna Clarke wondered why this law was being implemented now.

“It’s probably the taxi drivers,” she said. “I can’t see how anybody else would benefit from it.”

According to Browne’s Tuesday letter to the rental car companies, those that violated the law faced a $1,000 fine for each vehicle allowed to go to St. Thomas and/or losing their business license for more than six months.

The practice of bringing St. Thomas rental cars to St. John has increased substantially in recent years because it’s convenient and saves money for people who aren’t daunted by backing up the vehicle onto the barge. While they have to pay the barge cost of around $50 round trip, visitors save money on the taxi fares and baggage fees from Cyril E. King Airport to Red Hook or Charlotte Amalie ferry terminals and on ferry fares and the associated baggage fees.

They can shop on St. Thomas where the grocery selection is better and usually cheaper. While rental prices for four-wheel drive cars on both islands are often similar, vacationers who don’t feel the need to have this amenity rent smaller sedans at cheaper prices. Additionally many people taking day trips from St. Thomas to St. John bring their cars on the barge.

The impact on the St. Thomas car rental companies is huge. Alex Belmonte, who owns the St. Thomas-based Discount Car Rental, said that 70 to 75 percent of his business is by people who rent cars to take to St. John. He also said he has cars reserved for the next six months by people planning to take them to St. John.

“I’ll be out of business,” he said before Government House made the announcement.

He said that he has 10 employees and pays $8,000 a month to the government in gross receipts tax.

Bill Creque, who owns Dependable Car Rental on St. Thomas, said that the number of customers taking cars to St. John is growing and now accounts for 25 percent of his business.

He questioned the legality of the law since other vendors such as food suppliers face no such prohibition.

“I don’t think any jurisdiction has the right to restrict commerce. This bill has to be repealed,” Creque said.

Reached after the Government House announcement, Creque said he was relieved.

One customer who planned to rent from a St. Thomas company for his visit to St. John is arriving Thursday. Wayne Comeaux of Houston said before the news about Browne’s 60-day grace period hit the travel forums that he managed to get a St. John rental but it will cost him $250 more than he planned on spending for his 10-day trip. Additionally, he wanted to rent a soft-top, two-door jeep for him and his wife, but now he’ll have to make do with a larger car.

He said he was angry that the law’s enforcement was done without notice.

Another person with a planned visit called to say he’s now booked with a St. John car rental agency rather than risk not having a car. Jim O’Donnell of Scotia, N.Y., said he rented on St. Thomas for his two previous trips and he planned to continue doing so. He said that while car rental costs are about the same, he saves about $100 since he doesn’t have to pay taxi and ferry fares for four people.

“And there’s the ability to shop,” he said, adding that shopping on St. Thomas also saves money because groceries are cheaper.

The need to rent cars on St. Thomas for use on St. John began to escalate in part when St. John companies did not have enough cars available during the busy winter season. St. John Car Rental owner Albert Willis said the number of car rental slots on St. John is capped at 625.

“St. John has not had a quota increase in 20 years,” Willis said.

He estimated that about 300 to 400 St. Thomas-based rental cars come to St. John each week but Courtesy Car Rental owner Greg Edward said the number was 700 to 800 a week.

“It impacts our traffic and the impact is terrible for St. John businesses,” Edward said, adding that he can’t rent all his available vehicles because so many come from St. Thomas.

Both he and Willis said they’ve had people renting St. Thomas vehicles ask if they can park in their lots and request help when they’ve had a problem.

Barge companies stood to see a cut in their revenues from Browne’s edict. No one was available to respond at Boyson Inc. and no one called back from Love City Car Ferries and Global Marine.

Sen. Craig Barshinger called this a law with unintended consequences. While he said he understands the issue for St. John-based car rental companies, it restrains free trade between the islands.

He suggested that St. John car rental companies be allowed to set up shop at the airport but Edward said it would be cumbersome because there are 18 companies renting cars on St. John.

Barshinger said that allowing people to rent cars at the airport if they so chose better serves the tourists.

“We are a tourism economy,” he said.


----------



## TimW1

ekinggill said:


> Can you provide a link to the source of this?
> 
> Thanks



http://barnako.typepad.com/

I apologize for getting back to you late.  Apparently, the governor was overwhelmed with calls and emails and responded quickly.  Thankfully.

Tim


----------



## DavidnRobin

This has been delayed for the immediate future, but still worthwhile to contacts Gov't folks to voice your displeasure or concerns (and I guess even if you agree - like you want StJ to use the Yosemite model and abolish cars). I had heard rumors that the 'taxi-mafia' was very strong in StT and StJ - this may be proof of this to some degree.  It appears that this is a very poorly written law that is being over-interpreted (at least according to someone that looked it up) and was made so rental companies licensed on the 2 island did not open up opertions on the other, but was never made to prevent rental cars from crossing over on the car barge.  Personally, I cannot believe that would hold-up against legal challenge (but what would I know...)

Legislature
www.legvi.org/index.php

Department of Motor Vehicles
jerris.browne@bmv.vi.gov

Governor of the Virgin Islands
john@governordejongh.com

Senator Craig Barshinger St. John
1(340)774-0880
carol@visenate.org Chief of staff

Senator Shawn-Michael Malone
Senatormalone@gmail.com


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Trip Report, April 2012*

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169655


----------



## DavidnRobin

Staying at the W Barcelona - and just saw this in my email. Haven't had time to go thru but...




June 2012



Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Villas Owner:

As your elected representatives on the Board of Directors of the Virgin Grand Villas – St. John Condominium Owners Association, we recently participated in the Board’s quarterly meeting and as usual are providing this report to you.

Possible lawsuit against the Association 
We begin with a matter that should be of particular concern to owners. Last October, about 230 of the Virgin Grand owners, representing about 6% of the total number of owners, filed a complaint against Starwood claiming, chiefly, that the millions of dollars approved in 2008 by the Board of the Condominium Association (with the concurrence of our predecessor elected representatives) for interior and exterior refurbishments was not lawfully authorized. The lawsuit also contends that Starwood’s continuing majority control of our Board is unlawful and that Starwood must turn over control to a majority of elected directors. We attach to this message a copy of the complaint (which is a public record), that these owners filed in the territorial court of the Virgin Islands. Click here to view the complaint. 

In defending this lawsuit Starwood took the position, among other things, that because the Condominium Association (not Starwood) was the entity that had undertaken the refurbishment, the suit could not go forward without including the Condominium Association as an additional defendant. On June 19, the judge decided that the plaintiffs must either bring our Association into the lawsuit by suing it as an additional defendant or drop the lawsuit altogether. At that point, Starwood advised our Association that if the plaintiffs decide to continue with the lawsuit by suing our Association, we should hire our own law firm, at the Association’s expense, because the legal positions we take in the litigation may well diverge from those of Starwood. 

If the plaintiffs proceed with the lawsuit we would have no choice but to defend against it, and the cost of doing so could well exceed $100,000. And that cost would have to be borne by all of us, in the form of increased maintenance fees, even if we were to prevail. We must defend against it, because the plaintiffs seek restitution of the millions of dollars that have already been spent for refurbishments from which we are all now benefiting. Although we think that the suit has little merit, if the plaintiffs prevail, most current owners would suffer a net loss because current owners would, through new significantly increased maintenance charges, have to pay damages to past owners, and many of us would end up paying ourselves. But we would all lose, because of the legal fees that we will all have to share in paying. 

At our June 26 Board meeting, the Board authorized a first installment of up to $25,000 for legal fees for the defense of this lawsuit if the plaintiffs decide to proceed against the Condominium Association. And because the three Starwood employees who are the appointed members of our Board may have interests that conflict with those of the owners, the Board authorized the two of us, as owner-elected representatives, to select the law firm that will represent the Association. The court gave the plaintiffs until August 20 to join our Association as a defendant in their lawsuit, unless the plaintiffs decide not to proceed and choose to drop their lawsuit altogether. 

We are sorry to bring you news of this unfortunate situation. We think that at the end of the day this is one of those lawsuits in which the only winners will be the lawyers. 

Structural Waterproofing's suit 
Many of you have heard, through an email from former owner Eugene Jaspan, about a second lawsuit against the Association – this one by Structural Waterproofing, one of the contractors that worked on the exterior refurbishment. This is a fairly routine dispute between a contractor and a customer and not a cause for significant alarm. We do not agree with the description of the dispute that Mr. Jaspan circulated to many owners. In any event, Starwood is attempting to resolve the matter and to bond over the Structural Waterproofing lien to avoid any disruption of owner purchase or sale transactions. At this time we see no need for separate representation of the Association. 

Refurbishment update
Most of the refurbishment has been completed, but the last stages were delayed by the dispute with a contractor referred to above. A new contractor has been engaged to complete the project. By October, the photo-voltaic (solar) cells that have been installed on the roofs of buildings 41, 43, and 44 will be hooked up to the power grid, and then we will begin the next phase of photo-voltaic cell installation to reduce our electric bill. Also within the next few months, the resurfacing and other work on the pool between buildings 33 and 34 will be done, landscaping work will be accomplished around both hillside pools, both pools will receive shade awnings and additional umbrellas, and the grills and spas for buildings 43 and 44 will be improved.

The TV and internet upgrades have nearly been completed (a few units don’t yet have HD TV sets, and the internet signal strength will be improved for two units that are having internet difficulties). Management is continuing to work on obtaining folding chairs for additional seating on the patios of the two-bedroom units and is looking into waterproof cushions for the wooden patio chairs.

Inventory in the freecycle shed continues to disappoint your owner representatives. There is a fair amount of children’s beach play equipment in the shed at mid-day on Saturdays, but the shed is nearly empty by the end of the day, and there have never been enough beach chairs or other types of inventory to reach a critical mass. Perhaps owners are reluctant to deposit equipment because they lack confidence that the shed is secure against pilfering. At present, we are leasing the shed. At our fall Board meeting, we will consider purchasing it, which would enable us to install a lock that would work with unit door keys. Purchasing the shed and an electronic lock would impose a one-time average cost of less than $5 on owners. If you have comments on this proposal (or other issues), we are of course interested in your views.

Reports expected
As you know from previous reports, we have commissioned an outside expert to give us a one-time audit of our replacement reserve program and an acoustical engineer to advise us on a better sound barrier between the upstairs bedrooms in buildings 41 and 42. We expect to receive both of these reports within the next few months. 

Financial matters
As you know, when owners do not pay their maintenance fees in a timely fashion, they are “locked out” of their units and the rest of us must make up the lost revenue. As of the end of May, 286 accounts (of 4,179 total accounts billed) were locked out, liens have been filed against 251 accounts, and foreclosure proceedings have begun against 92 accounts. We project that, as in recent years, approximately 95% of owners will pay their maintenance fees rather than be locked out. If you cannot keep up your maintenance payments and would like to turn your deed over to the association in exchange for cancellation of your back-due payments (rather than have to deal with judicial foreclosure proceedings), we can put you in touch with the right people at Starwood with whom to discuss this matter.

Sale/rental/exchange website
Unfortunately, the owners’ website on which we have been working for about two years is still not ready for use. The design isn’t quite perfect, and website security is still not resolved. Board chair Teri Castleberry deserves our thanks for putting many days of her time into reviewing the work done so far by an outside contractor, and she is devoting still more time to this project. We are determined to make it work and regret that it is taking so long. We are aware that many, many owners are eager to see the owners’ bulletin board go “live.” We had hoped to roll it out by July, but it will not be in place before fall. 

Owner rental offer
As you know from our last report, Starwood is unable to replicate the procedure used last year to realize revenue from locked out units by renting the weeks - for the price of the maintenance fee - to other owners. Too few weeks were rented to justify the cost of administration. So we have authorized an 18-month experiment that provides owners an exclusive benefit and maximizes revenue for the association. You will hear more about this directly from Starwood Vacation Ownership, but the essence is this: all the days that are available to rent from (a) locked-out weeks, (b) association-owned weeks, (c) developer owned weeks (about 7% of the development) and (d) weeks that owners have converted for starpoints to travel throughout the hotel system and staroptions that have not been spoken for by other network users will be made available to Virgin Grand owners for rental at a rate 40% lower than the lowest rate that Starwood is offering to the general public, plus a $20! per day resort fee (half the rate ordinarily charged to renters). That rate will in most cases be higher than the maintenance fee that we are used to paying for units of the size made available, but there are compensating advantages: (a) it will not be necessary to rent a full week, so if you snag a period adjacent to one of your ownership periods, you could extend your vacation for two, three or four days without committing to an entire week, (b) you will receive daily cleaning (as you would in a hotel) rather than a mid-week tidy-up, and (c) internet access will be provided at no additional cost. The inventory of available units and days will be made available to Virgin Grand owners, exclusively, on a special website; Starwood Vacation Ownership will be sending an email communication with details on how to access it.

2010 property tax bills
June 29 update - We have just learned the 2010 property tax bills will soon be available on the USVI website. SVO will be sending an email communication to owners on Monday, July 2nd with more details regarding the discount dates. Please be sure to monitor your email for this important communication. 

Our very best to our fellow owners. 

Philip G. Schrag 
phil.schrag@gmail.com 

Bob Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com





This email was sent by SVO Management, Inc. You've received this email as a convenience
in the general course of communication regarding your ownership.

To ensure you receive your SVO Management, Inc. emails, please add 
svomanagement@svomanagementinc.com to your address book. Do not reply to this email.

SVO Management, Inc.
9002 San Marco Court,
Orlando, FL 32819
CID 1926


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## Ken555

Two years?!?! Definitely sounds like a Starwood project! 



> Sale/rental/exchange website
> Unfortunately, the owners’ website on which we have been working for about two years is still not ready for use. The design isn’t quite perfect, and website security is still not resolved. Board chair Teri Castleberry deserves our thanks for putting many days of her time into reviewing the work done so far by an outside contractor, and she is devoting still more time to this project. We are determined to make it work and regret that it is taking so long. We are aware that many, many owners are eager to see the owners’ bulletin board go “live.” We had hoped to roll it out by July, but it will not be in place before fall.


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## gregb

The Owner Rental program sounds interesting.  Let's hope it is successful and that *wood rolls out a similar program at other resorts.

It might also go some way towards blunting the criticism that *wood is keeping the best inventory for itself, and that "locked out" units are not benefiting the HOA.

Greg


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## LisaH

DavidnRobin said:


> Staying at the W Barcelona - and just saw this in my email. Haven't had time to go thru but...



Totally unrelated but I was in Barcelona last week. A great restaurant named Aqua is very close to Hotel W Barcelona. If you see this post before you leave, you might give it a try. Great Tapas, right on the beach. The only problem is, like most of the good restaurants in Spain, it does not open until after 8pm and reservation is a must.


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## DavidnRobin

LisaH said:


> Totally unrelated but I was in Barcelona last week. A great restaurant named Aqua is very close to Hotel W Barcelona. If you see this post before you leave, you might give it a try. Great Tapas, right on the beach. The only problem is, like most of the good restaurants in Spain, it does not open until after 8pm and reservation is a must.



Thanks - my dinners are with my team, but they go to high-end places.  Went to Tragaluz last night. I am at the W while everyone else is at the Hilton Diagonal Mar - my choice way better by far, And only 200E per nite (paying cash, but i would use SPs to stay here again).  Room is surprisingly quiet considering how crazy it is here.  Barceloneta is great place to be - perfect weather - been using metro/bus to get around instead of taxi for entertainment. Paella cooking class today then site-seeing. Wish Robin was here... 
For some reason woke at 7am... Hanging out by the pool deck - it is really nice.

Maybe Westin5* should consider living here...  


Surprised no comments on SVO VGV letter - oh well - life goes on


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## jarta

David,   ...   "Surprised no comments on SVO VGV letter - oh well - life goes on"

Since you ask, life *will* go on (lol!):

"Jaspan Supporters" Suit:

1.  Filed by 6% of WSJ owners.  Minuscule popular support.  The judge will notice that.

2.  Only Starwood sued.  The judge has now ruled that the WSJ HOA, which entity had to sign, authorize or ratify the contracts for refurbishment, is a party defendant whose appearance before the court is necessary to allow the relief requested.  So, the HOA must be added to the suit or the suit must be dropped because no viable relief is possible without the HOA being ordered to do something.  (Can't comment on the whole complaint.  Not a WSJ owner who received a copy of the exact claims.)

3.  You will know by August 20.  That's the date the suit must be amended to add the HOA as a necessary defendant or be dismissed.

4.  If added as a defendant, the HOA must hire an attorney and defend against the suit.  Schrag and Werbel get to choose the HOA attorneys.  (No mention of E&O insurance for WSJ?)

5.  IMO, the suit is worthless and the assertion by Schrag and Werbel that only the lawyers will get rich is correct.  Nevertheless, the HOA board has already authorized up to $25,000 to be expended to feed its attorneys - if that becomes necessary.

5.  Conclusions.  The Jaspan-allied plaintiffs are nasty enough persons to cause the rest of the WSJ owners to defend against their baseless lawsuit to roll back the refurbishment.

There is power, authority and a fiduciary duty for the HOA board to preserve the value of the property for the owners it represents.  It looks like that was done in an annual budget process and, therefore, there was no special assessment (raising of money by an assessment outside of the normal budget/MF cycle).

If the suit continues, I'd expect counterclaims to be filed against the "Jaspan Supporter" plaintiffs.  I assume they have been advised as much.

The more common way to fund necessary, deferred maintenance is for the HOA board to take out a loan secured by MF payments, use the loan proceeds to cure the necessary deferred maintenance and pay off the loan over time with the increased assessments.  Perhaps collections of MFs were low enough or other annual repair work so expensive at WSJ that repayment of a loan for refurbishment could not be guaranteed by a loan and an assignment of the MFs at WSJ.

"Structural Waterproofing Suit"

1.  The HOA board does not agree with Jaspan's description of the mechanic's lien suit.

2.  Nevertheless, Starwood, the property manager, is seeking a bonding/insurance company to secure a bond that will be filed with the court from a bonding/insurance company (make a 3rd party promise to pay money if the HOA does not) sufficient for any amount claimed by Structural Waterproofing from the HOA.  (Yes, a fee will be charged for issuing the bond for the HOA and it will be paid for from the MFs.)

3.  Once the bond is filed with the court guaranteeing payment of any judgment amount sought, the lien can be released by the court and, to the extent there is/was a claim made against title to any individual's week, it is gone and the suit becomes one for the secure "pile of money" represented by the bond filed with the court.

4.  Schrag and Werbel refer to the proceedings in the Structural Waterproofing suit as "fairly routine."  I'd take them at their word.  And, if the work was not done well, there will be no liability for the HOA.

5.  Conclusion:  Seems like any trouble in Paradise is well under control on this suit.   Salty


----------



## WildJohn

*Regarding the suit*

5.  Conclusions.  The Jaspan-allied plaintiffs are nasty enough persons to cause the rest of the WSJ owners to defend against their baseless lawsuit to roll back the refurbishment.


Jarta, I agree with everything you say.  Just one thing that's being left out.  Jaspan doesn't even own anymore.  He is merely the acting on behalf of Tom DeClemente, who owns 14 weeks of pool villa units and has his own personal, selfish reasons to want to reduce maintenance.  

Regards,
John


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## jarta

WildJohn,   ...   IMO, then Jaspan should be more discriminating in picking the people he will shill for.   Salty


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## Jocdocnh

*Recent tIme in 4111*

Just wanted to note that the "new" Internet has a lousy signal in 4111. When we were there in April we complained about it. I think the antenna is actually on the back of the building facing away from the units and a second one is facing across towards the other pool villa buildings. If you walk around there with an iPad there are a lot of large dead spots. I had almost no signal inside the unit at all. Having said that, the renovations of the pool and patio were very nice and well done. The new sliders however were NOT well installed. One of my guests owns a glass and window business and couldnt believe how bad the installation was. In the master bedroom there was an opening to the outside you could put your entire hand into and see daylight right thru. Duck tape solved it for the time being..they really should make their contractor come back and fix the installs. There were holes for locks with nothing in them in the windows over the sink also.*
I suspect the owner's Free-sharing. Building is not going To work as long as Westin staff can help themselves..I saw some of their staff in and out of there, nothing worth taking when we were there, also nothing worth sharing. Owners for 10 years and we are NOT cranks but are in the suit,not because we aren't happy with the renovations but with the way it has been done. The board should be mostly owners at this point NOT stacked with Westin employees. We have been greatly misled over the years by Starwood in many instances and this is the result. Things are better but do need to change. We have paid the ever increasing fees and are still happy to go every year but there needs to be changes. Why does Starwood NOT resell units for owners? Seems like good business especially as they have shrinking inventory to offer. Also, they are not willing to take a trade up unless there is substantial profit even when you offer to pay the closing. Not right. Week 53? If they own it then they need to pay the maintenance. Can't own it rent it use it to count as Starwood owned weeks to control the board and not pay.

Sent from my iPad


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## yogiwine

*For the Starwood Lovers*



WildJohn said:


> 5.  Conclusions.  The Jaspan-allied plaintiffs are nasty enough persons to cause the rest of the WSJ owners to defend against their baseless lawsuit to roll back the refurbishment.
> 
> 
> Jarta, I agree with everything you say.  Just one thing that's being left out.  Jaspan doesn't even own anymore.  He is merely the acting on behalf of Tom DeClemente, who owns 14 weeks of pool villa units and has his own personal, selfish reasons to want to reduce maintenance.
> 
> Regards,
> John



My, my, my . . . where do you people get your information and are you so gullible to believe the BS werbel and schrag dish out - most of which they are directed to do so by Starwood.

If the complaints of "6%" of the owners at WSJ are baseless, why is starwood trying to find a way to settle out of court?

Do any of you werbel/schrag followers know that there is a lien against the WSJ Grand Villas for $750,000.00 from one of the contractors who they have not paid for the refurbishing contract?  According to w/s this is a routine matter and happens all the time with condo refinishing.  Bull!  I've owned a number of condos over the year, and not just timeshares, and it was never a routine matter to have a lien put against our property for failure to ABIDE BY THE CONTRACT!  In that law suit, of which werbel and schrag are named, Starwood has authorized the use of HOA funds to pay for their legal bills!  Wow, just where I want my annual fees to go!

There are a few of us who have been lucky enough recently to "give away" our units just to get out from under all this brooha, but because of the current litigations, all of our closings are on hold.  One more reason I'm over joyed to own a unit at WSJ.  

Maybe it's time for the rest of you owners to open your eyes and hears and listen to the truth!

Regards,
Yogi


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## LisaRex

yogiwine said:


> Do any of you werbel/schrag followers know that there is a lien against the WSJ Grand Villas for $750,000.00 from one of the contractors who they have not paid for the refurbishing contract?



I'm not a werbel/schrag follower, but this was discussed in a recent thread.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173342

BTW, welcome to Tug.


----------



## DavidnRobin

... Deleted ...

Let's try again...

As mentioned, these are 2 separate issues - as most, I do not pretend to know anything about contract law, but know enough that one issue has nothing to do with the other.  I'll let the people who have responded already explain the contractual situation (did you bother reading them before that fabulously thought out 1st post?). Good luck with getting rid of the awful burden that somehow was forced upon you because you choose not to pay attention to how SVO works for so many years until the collective genius and well intended coalition informed you. {sarcasm}

As to the refurbish and the current make-up of the SVO VGV HOA BOD - I would suggest going back to the first post of this thread and actually read the salient posts - along with  the inbedded links to try and educate yourself of what has been going on for the 6 years (plus) before laying into us (me...) about how stupid we (me...) must be not to see how Tom et.al. is looking out for our (my...) best interest. And seemingly how SVO has colluded to get Bob and Phil elected in the first place - considering they were not on the HOA BOD when the 1st, 2nd and 3rd attempt to get the 'illegal' refurbish done.  btw, Bob and Phil were one of the original coalition members - and have done 1000x more than anyone to improve VGV and create better transparency.  But 'screw the facts' and just rant away about how Bob and Phil have wronged you - and they are just SVO pawns (that seems logical).

Good 1st post... How stupid and uninformed we (me...) must be...


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## DavidnRobin

*Burglary at WSJ*

FYI -

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com.../8157-vipd-arrest-two-men-for-westin-burglary

we don't watch TV while we are there anyway...


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## DavidnRobin

*Gas Service Station construction update*

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...s/8166-new-gas-station-construction-continues

What an ugly scar on the Chocolate Hole hillside... {Jacob's Ladder near Palm Plaza}
I cannot believe the people of StJ allowed this construction to happen in this location.  Not only ugly, but also unsafe.
IMO


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...s/8166-new-gas-station-construction-continues
> 
> What an ugly scar on the Chocolate Hole hillside... {Jacob's Ladder near Palm Plaza}
> I cannot believe the people of StJ allowed this construction to happen in this location.  Not only ugly, but also unsafe.
> IMO



We are here at WSJ now and I can tell you the construction is hideous and will be an eyesore.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ VGV 2010 Property Tax Bill*

In case you were not aware (or haven't recieved yours)...

The WSJ VGV 2010 Property tax bills have been sent out and due Sep 30, 2012.

They are still at the 1999 rate, but the USVI Gov't has almost caught up. Expect a large increase in TS property taxes once approved - on the upside - this may take a while.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*StJ 2012 Restaurant/Bar Closings for Off-Season*

StJ 2012 Restaurant/Bar Closings for Off-Season (from Ruth at St John Spice)

http://stjohnspice.com/stjohnrestaurants.htm


----------



## DavidnRobin

*New StJ Web Cam*

Overlooking Chocolate Hole (on left) and Great Cruz Bay/WSJ (on right)
http://sunsetridgevillas.com/SRVrightNow.shtml


----------



## Westin5Star

DavidnRobin said:


> StJ 2012 Restaurant/Bar Closings for Off-Season (from Ruth at St John Spice)
> 
> http://stjohnspice.com/stjohnrestaurants.htm



Thank you for posting this; I was actually wondering about restaurant closures as I will be in St. John August 19-26.  Gratefully, none of the closures (that we planned on eating at) affect us.  BTW, I just got back from two weeks in Alaska so I cannot wait for some tropical time!


----------



## tomandrobin

Westin5Star said:


> Thank you for posting this; I was actually wondering about restaurant closures as I will be in St. John August 19-26.  Gratefully, none of the closures (that we planned on eating at) affect us.  BTW, I just got back from two weeks in Alaska so I cannot wait for some tropical time!



We got back last week and had a fantastic time, once again. 

We ate at Zozo's for the first time.....Excellent meal! We booked a month out and reserved seats on the second level to watch the sunset during dinner.


----------



## jerseygirl

Ahhhh .... 

ZoZos is our absolute favorite!


----------



## Westin5Star

Great pics of Zozo's (view and food).  Last year we ate there twice but this year we might make it three times.  

We also like meals at La Plancha (especially since they moved locations as the old location as cramped and overcrowded- sangria!).  Our favorite view for dinner is from Asolare and the food is pretty good there as well.


----------



## tomandrobin

Westin5Star said:


> Our favorite view for dinner is from Asolare and the food is pretty good there as well.



We did not make it over there, but many people we talked to ranked them and Zozo as the best two restaurants.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*StJ Video*

http://livewellnetwork.com/Motion/episodes/U.S.-Virgin-Islands-St.-John/8735660

{see how awful StJ really is...} <- sarcasm


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Ted is also serving Take-Out...*

Well... if you decide to eat-in and want some delicious take-out close by -
It appears that our favorite StJ Chef (Ted from Ted's Supper Club) is now serving take-out at StJ Market

now... this is newsworthy! yum-yum-yum - June cannot come soon enough...

http://www.on-stjohn.com/2012/08/20/take-out-ted-and-caribbean-take-out-too/#comments


----------



## Transit

DavidnRobin said:


> Well... if you decide to eat-in and want some delicious take-out close by -
> It appears that our favorite StJ Chef (Ted from Ted's Supper Club) is now serving take-out at StJ Market
> 
> now... this is newsworthy! yum-yum-yum - June cannot come soon enough...
> 
> http://www.on-stjohn.com/2012/08/20/take-out-ted-and-caribbean-take-out-too/#comments



Picked up some take out there last week ,Shrimp in sauce and yellow rice ,very good .The other dishes looked good also.


----------



## Westin5Star

Here now. The storm impact is minimal. The ocean level is up to the cement near the pool though.


----------



## tomandrobin

Westin5Star said:


> Here now. The storm impact is minimal. The ocean level is up to the cement near the pool though.



I guess snorkeling will be blah the next few days.


----------



## J&JFamily

Westin5Star said:


> Here now. The storm impact is minimal. The ocean level is up to the cement near the pool though.



Could you post a picture of that?  I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're describing.  If what I'm imagining in my head is true, the water has eliminated most of the beach (sand) area?


----------



## jerseygirl

Here are a few videos:

http://www.on-stjohn.com/

Shout out to Westin5Star - please give us an update.  Hope you're doing well and managing to find some fun!


----------



## gregb

Glad it was not too bad there.  Hope it didn't dampen your vacation too much.


----------



## Westin5Star

J&JFamily said:


> Could you post a picture of that?  I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're describing.  If what I'm imagining in my head is true, the water has eliminated most of the beach (sand) area?



I'm sorry but I didn't take a picture. The next day the sand on the cement was cleaned up.


----------



## J&JFamily

Westin5Star said:


> I'm sorry but I didn't take a picture. The next day the sand on the cement was cleaned up.



No worries, glad you're doing well and congrats on the "extra" few days in paradise (from your other thread).


----------



## Beaglemom3

Maybe this should be under "Bargain Deals", but as it's not mine, I thought I'd start here.

In my never-ending quest for the ultimate t/s deal (does this really exist ?), I came across a 2 bd/3 Bth., WSJ, week 46, Villa # 3321 , Sat - Sat, for $2,500 for sale, not a rental.

 I am  posting the link here, but am not sure if that would be considered advertising. If so, mods, please delete the link and you can PM me.
http://www.stjohnusvirealestate.com/timeshare_fractional.php?order_mls=list_price#mls

I thought about going for it, but I just sold one similar to this and have decided not to. For the MFs and anticipated pending legal fees, I will either rent a unit at WSJ or Caneel Bay.

I have no financial interest in this property and would decline the offer of same and cannot vouch for the realtor.

Thanks !


----------



## oneohana

*Marginal Stay*

We just came back and had a very marginal stay. To me it wasn't even close to any other Starwwod stay to date. 

Looking for advice if I should just fill out their survey or escalate it to Suzzane Clark.

I met with Shamir (Guest Relations) while we were still there to try to resolve the issues.


----------



## DavidnRobin

SC is SVP of Owner Services - if your issue about Owner Services then she would be the one to contact.  If it was directly an issue with your stay, then the GM of the WSJ phase you stayed in. If you stay was at the hotel part - then SPG.
If your comparison is to other SPG/SVO stays, then you may want to read threads about this.  As your post did not list details-hard to advise...


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Hermit Crab Migration on StJ*

for those who may not seen this video - it has gone viral

http://vimeo.com/48466065


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> for those who may not seen this video - it has gone viral
> 
> http://vimeo.com/48466065



Wow - this is awesome!


----------



## DavidnRobin

*More cars soon come...*

StJ to increase rental cars 100%
http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/local-news/2012/10/01/st-john-car-rental-quota-rises

{editorial: likely from the outcry over allowing StT rental cars onto StJ - surprised that the StJ taxi 'mafia' strangle hold has lost its grip - but this should results in lower prices for StJ visitors}

on a side note... I just noticed that this thread just crossed over 100K views - wow!
of course, 10K were mine... 
{btw - K=1000 - at least for most... }


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Ted's Supper Club Video*

and on to more important things...

YouTube video of Ted's Supper Club on StJ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nXisKHWs7U&feature=player_embedded

for those paying attention to DnRs past travels -
Ted has come to our WSJ VG villa and prepared an anniversary dinner - one of the best meals that we have ever had.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ VGV 2013 MFs*

MFs posted - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1380337&postcount=51

Terrace Suite (studio): $1443.48
Townhouse Suite (1Bd): $1924.71
2-Bd Townhouse: $2405.94 (MF=$1954.98, RR=$450.96)
2-Bd Premium: $2886.97
3-Bd Pool Villa/Premium: $2887.17 

1.8% decrease from 2012, which already had a large decrease from 2011

I showed the MF and RR for 2Bd TH as a reference - percentages are the same across villa types.

Real Estate taxes (separately) have been billed thru 2010.  ~$130 for 2Bd TH villa (for reference).

Remodel/Refurbish essentially complete, RR at resonable level, 2 Owner-Reps on HOA BOD, transparency vastly improved, and resort has not sunk into sea... 

Are we still suing ourselves?

SF GIANTS! (2012 World Series Champs)
Let Panda Eat!


----------



## islandguy

*Work Continues at STJ*

Received an email from Starwood about Maintenance at STJ in the coming weeks.  I'm headed there next week for 3 wonderful weeks and I don't think the maint will be a major issue.  What they said in the email:

"...we need to notify you of a villa maintenance project that will affect your stay. 

During the upcoming weeks, the resort will perform annual villa maintenance in the Virgin Grand phase.  We have been notified that while undergoing maintenance your villa will be unavailable during your upcoming stay.  The resort staff has arranged for your reservation to be placed in an alternate villa in the Virgin Grand phase and, rest assured, will do everything possible to ensure your satisfaction..."


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Update from WSJ VGV BOD (Phil and Bob)*

November 7, 2012  

Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Villas Owner:

We are happy to report to you that maintenance fees are going down for the third year in a row, as reflected in the proposed budget that you have just received. This decrease comes despite a 19% increase (to 56 cents per kilowatt hour) in what we have to pay the local power company, and a 12% increase in what we have to pay for insurance (a rate increase that is based on insurance losses in all of North America, not something specific to Virgin Grand or St. John). Most of the savings have resulted from certain reduced operating costs, particularly less use of electricity as a result of the better insulation and other energy-saving features of our newly refurbished units. Some of it results from sound conservation practices by owners, such as turning off the air conditioning while you are at the pool or the beach. Click here to view a chart showing a five year comparison of the average maintenance fees {note: not linked here - look below at next post, DnR}

During the budget workshop in which we recently participated, we particularly discussed ways in which we might further reduce the cost of energy, as it is a significant element of the annual maintenance fee and could rise higher in the future. (For purposes of comparison with the 56 cent per kilowatt hour rate that we must pay in St. John, residential rates for electricity are generally under 15 cents per kilowatt hour on the East Coast). As you know, ever since we joined the Board of Directors, we have strongly supported the installation of photo-voltaic (solar) cells so that we could generate our own electricity. 

The first phase of the installation of these cells is almost complete; cells on the flat portion of the roofs of buildings 41, 43 and 44 are already generating power, and the installation on the roof of building 42 will be complete soon. These cells will save us about $13,000 per year. The next phase of installation, to be paid for by funds from the 2012 budget, will occur during the next few months and will save almost as much money. 

For 2013, we approved a third phase of installation of these cells in other areas of the property, such as parts of the roofs of the hillside buildings. We also discussed the possibility of installing additional solar panels on the ground, and of supplementing our solar energy with some small, quiet turbine generators of a type that the Board of Directors of the SVO resort in Kauai recently decided to install there. But we postponed any decisions on a fourth phase until next year, pending further study and more experience with the solar panels that we have already ordered and installed.

To reduce energy consumption, we continue to move in the direction of using LED rather than incandescent lighting. Each of the pool villa units has 47 overhead light bulbs! In buildings 43 and 44 the incandescent bulbs will be replaced with LED bulbs during the next few months. 

Our budget for 2013 includes no increase over 2012 in the replacement reserve budget and no increase over 2012 in the special contingency fund that we created last year to pay the approximately $1.5 million deductible, should it ever be required, on the policy that insures us against major damage from a hurricane. You may recall that we began this contingency fund to protect us against a sudden need for a special assessment if a hurricane causes enormous damage to our property. 

By the end of 2013, this fund will have accrued approximately $565,000. Last year we commissioned a special one-time evaluation of our replacement reserve requirements from an outside consulting firm that specializes in replacement reserve studies. We recently received that report and are studying it. Our preliminary analysis is that it will require, at most, fairly minor adjustments in our replacement reserve funding. In many respects, our management company's projections of future costs were more conservative than those from the outside consultant (and reasonably so), because our management company had better information about the greater cost of replacing furniture and equipment in St. John compared to replacement costs in the continental United States.

The poor economy continues to affect our collection of maintenance fees. A little more than 5% of owners have been prevented from using their units because they have not paid their maintenance fees. Our attorneys are in the process of foreclosing on these units so that we can resell them to new owners who will pay the annual fees, thereby keeping those fees down for the rest of us (who have been required to pay their share of the operating expenses in the meantime). Approximately 30 owners have avoided the costs of foreclosure proceedings by relinquishing their deeds to the association. We resold some units last year and will sell more units when we have accumulated a critical mass. 

If you can no longer afford to pay the maintenance fee and want to relinquish your unit to avoid foreclosure proceedings, please contact one of us and we will put you in touch with the people at SVO who can tell you whether you are eligible to do so. 

Improvements in the resort continue to be made, many of them as a result of suggestions that we have received from owners: 

•The wireless internet system has been upgraded. Bandwidth is now 2000% greater than it was before the refurbishments! 
•Shelving is being installed in the linen closets in the hillside buildings.
•Additional towel hooks will soon be installed in bathrooms that currently have only one hook.
•To deter owners from using pool chairs as additional balcony seating, a high-quality folding chair, suitable for balcony use, will be placed in the closet of each two-bedroom unit during 2013. (Please DO NOT remove these chairs from the unit.)
•A portion of each of the hillside decks will be outfitted with a type of awning to provide shade, and additional seating has already been placed on these pool decks.
•A lock will be installed on the freecycling shed, which your room key will open. This feature may increase the amount of free material that is housed in the shed. Incidentally, we have heard from some owners that they have found many useful items in the shed, including beach toys and beach chairs, and from other owners that the inventory has been sparse whenever they checked the shed. The amount of equipment in the shed seems to rise and decline precipitously during weekends, so our best advice, if you want to find books, equipment, or unopened food or beverages in the shed, is to check it as soon as you arrive and again at other times.
•New kitchen appliances will be installed by year end in buildings 43 and 44 (except unit 4415).
•Some electrical outlets in the studio and one-bedroom units will be outfitted to accommodate four rather than two plugs, because owners have asked for more outlets for laptops and other electronic devices. 
•Trees will be trimmed to improve the views from the balconies of the hillside buildings.

As you know, the management company has been working for several months to create a website that will give us both an online voluntary owners’ directory and a bulletin board on which owners can list their units for possible sale, rental, or exchange (as well as purchases and rentals that they desire). The project has moved forward, but the vendor has moved more slowly than we had hoped. We continue to monitor progress and expect that the bulletin board will be online early in 2013 if not by the end of 2012.

Finally, here is an update on the two lawsuits on which we reported in June:

•In the case filed by the contractor who had worked on some of the refurbishments, the attorneys for the Association and the contractor are discussing settlement. The Association has filed its response and counterclaims against the contractor in the court proceedings. The lien filed by the contractor has been bonded and no longer burdens the condominium property.
•In the case that dissatisfied owners brought, Starwood moved to dismiss the complaint, the court ordered the plaintiffs to file an amended complaint. They did file an amended complaint, and Starwood has moved to dismiss the amended complaint. That motion remains before the court.

We hope that like us you will continue to enjoy our newly refurbished resort.

Sincerely, 
Philip G. Schrag 
phil.schrag@gmail.com 

Bob Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com


----------



## DavidnRobin

Here is the chart noted above.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Thread that has pool/patio photos post-refurbish:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182373


----------



## letsgomets

*Apple TV/Netflix/Hulu*

We head down in 8 days (!) and were wondering what works for TV watching.  We have a BV unit and bought an Apple TV this summer.  Anyone know if I can hook it up to the television?  Would have to be able to connect to the room wireless and tv would have to have an HDMI input.  Would love to be able to stream from my iPad to TV, which is what I mainly use it for.

Also, I read elsewhere that Netflix streaming doesn't work in USVI but Hulu does.  Thought I did log onto Netflix last year at WSJ, but maybe I'm mis-remembering.  Anybody have experience with either in their rooms recently?

Thanks!


----------



## DavidnRobin

I was excited to see someone other than me posting on this thread...

Sorry, can't help.  We do not turn on the TV during our 2 weeks at WSJ.  I have an Apple TV at home - and the problem will be the hook-up with the TV-AppleTV (obviously).  Not sure you ned to worry about the room wireless if you plan to stream from iTunes or apple device.


----------



## Ken555

DavidnRobin said:


> I was excited to see someone other than me posting on this thread...



:hysterical:

Anyway, when I bring my Apple TV to a resort, I just connect it via the HDMI port. Almost every flat panel out there has one. The real issue will be how you connect it to the wireless network, and there are plenty of other posts on that topic on TUG.


----------



## Tfleming675

Ken555 said:


> :hysterical:
> 
> Anyway, when I bring my Apple TV to a resort, I just connect it via the HDMI port. Almost every flat panel out there has one. The real issue will be how you connect it to the wireless network, and there are plenty of other posts on that topic on TUG.



Connecting it is easy. The real issue is the poor bandwidth at the resort. The experience will be very very bad!

Just got back from WSJ, had three TVs and never turned one on for a week.


----------



## LisaH

Merry Christmas! Hope to visit our newly acquired week in Aug.


----------



## letsgomets

letsgomets said:


> We head down in 8 days (!) and were wondering what works for TV watching.  We have a BV unit and bought an Apple TV this summer.  Anyone know if I can hook it up to the television?  Would have to be able to connect to the room wireless and tv would have to have an HDMI input.  Would love to be able to stream from my iPad to TV, which is what I mainly use it for.
> 
> Also, I read elsewhere that Netflix streaming doesn't work in USVI but Hulu does.  Thought I did log onto Netflix last year at WSJ, but maybe I'm mis-remembering.  Anybody have experience with either in their rooms recently?
> 
> Thanks!



At WSJ now. Here are the answers to those who may have the same questions in the future. 

1) Hulu and Netflix work. Amazon thinks you are outside USA so can't get their videos. 

2)  no HDMI input on tv 

3)  wifi slow - appx 350k with free plan - but AT&T gets 4G reception (no Verizon). So I can watch on my att iPhone with decent speed but can't stream to tv while my verizon iPad is big enough to watch but too slow


----------



## Ken555

letsgomets said:


> 3)  wifi slow - appx 350k with free plan - but AT&T gets 4G reception (no Verizon). So I can watch on my att iPhone with decent speed but can't stream to tv while my verizon iPad is big enough to watch but too slow



Is there a paid plan which is faster?


----------



## letsgomets

Ken555 said:


> Is there a paid plan which is faster?



Yes.  Recollection is that marginally faster is $9.95/day and 1MB (or maybe a bit more) is $16.95/day.  Pretty steep, in my opinion.


----------



## jarta

This is a timeshare resort thread.   Salty


----------



## LisaRex

letsgomets said:


> Yes.  Recollection is that marginally faster is $9.95/day and 1MB (or maybe a bit more) is $16.95/day.  Pretty steep, in my opinion.



Is this an offering from the resort itself, or from a third party provider, such as Verizon? When we travel to WSJ, we're very reluctant to use our phones because it's an international location.  And the internet connection speed is dismal.  If my husband could bring his work laptop instead, and connect at a faster rate, that would be an option, and perhaps worth the $17/day fee (especially since he could expense it).


----------



## ekinggill

*Carriers and Phones*

In my experience with both my phones and those of guests:


Verizon is non-existant in the USVI.  Any use other than texting is expensive roaming
AT&T performed well and is not roaming at the resort.  On the north shore, however, the signal from the BVI was stronger.  If you don't or can't set your phone where it will not roam, either leave it off or be prepared to pay
t-mobile worked at the resort.  No knowledge of other parts of the island

I bought an AT&T prepaid before our last trip as I am on Verizon at home.  Worked great.  Considering an AT&T wifi hotspot device to bring along this year to enable using my Slingbox.

As always, just my experience...don't feel the need to pile on if you disagree.


----------



## bobpark56

ekinggill said:


> In my experience with both my phones and those of guests:
> 
> 
> Verizon is non-existant in the USVI.  Any use other than texting is expensive roaming
> AT&T performed well and is not roaming at the resort.  On the north shore, however, the signal from the BVI was stronger.  If you don't or can't set your phone where it will not roam, either leave it off or be prepared to pay
> t-mobile worked at the resort.  No knowledge of other parts of the island
> 
> I bought an AT&T prepaid before our last trip as I am on Verizon at home.  Worked great.  Considering an AT&T wifi hotspot device to bring along this year to enable using my Slingbox.
> 
> As always, just my experience...don't feel the need to pile on if you disagree.



Sprint worked well for us on St John, and it was free. But be careful if you are out on the east end of the island. There (Leinster Bay) the tower you pick up is in the BVI, and you will be charged international fees.
  --bp


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Maho Campgrounds sold - closes in May*

although this has been already reported - here is a StJ Tradewinds article

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...ground-land-officially-sold-for-13-95-million

12000 guests per year use Maho campgrounds - that is a major economic loss for StJ

silver-lining... perhaps this may help rentals at WSJ (???)


----------



## Henry M.

I just got a reservation for WSJ Hillside for April 6-13 (Staroption exchange), but I'm a little confused about the room type. 

My confirmation says I got a 1BR Premium Villa. I could have also gotten a studio. When I went to look at the villas, I could only find a 1BR Townhouse. It seems like the studio would actually be nicer for just 2 people, since the shower is downstairs. Looking at the layout of the two units, it doesn't look like the townhouse is that much more spacious. 

I'm thinking I might just save the Staroptions to take another trip later in the year. Any opinions?

Are there any units (of either type - I'll see if I can get the studio tomorrow) that are more preferable that I should add as a request to my reservation?

How long does it take to walk from the resort to the beach in Cruz Bay? Is there some sort of shuttle or are golf carts available?


----------



## DavidnRobin

There is only one type of a 1Bd that I am aware of and it is townhouse style (link below confirms) and has upper floor (thus TH style) that contains a Master Bedroom with a connected Bathroom and does have a bathroom downstairs as well (with a shower over tub) next to the entrance - great for wet sandy stuff.

See link: 
http://www.starwoodvacationownership.com/westin_stjohn_resort_villas/onebedroom_townhouse.html

IMO - we would take the 1Bd over the studio. More spacious volume wise, and better view as it is on the top floor.  750 sqft is pretty roomy plus much better light.

There are golf shuttles.  It is not a far walk - especially down - people make it seem worse than it is. It is further for B33/34.  If we go down to the resort - which isn't that often - the walk down is easy (unless there is a shoe issue with walking too far in shoes that should have never been bought... ), then we take the shuttle.  We take the shuttle back - it stops at check-in building.  Shuttle availability depends on time of day/nite.

Really do not sweat this stuff - and take the poor reviews with a grin of salt since people tend to only review if they had issues - and often the issue is them (IMO).

A good adage for the USVI is 'adapt' - keep this in mind - and go slow (which is fast paced at island speed) and all will be well.  StJ is a great place if laying around on a beach is your idea of a great vacation.  There are something like 52 beaches on the island - the Westin beach is not one of the best (but does have bar service...)

I just made our plane reservations today for June - can't wait.


----------



## jerseygirl

Personally, I'd take a tent on the (not so nice) beach (with bar service!) to be at WSJ.  Vacationing on WSJ is not about the room!  

The number of SOs you were charged will dictate which type of room you've received.  Go .... and enjoy!


----------



## Henry M.

Thanks for the responses. 

Are there any second story studios? I know I have a 1 BR right now, but could use the extra Starotions I'd save for another vacation later in the year.  

We are beach people too and would rather be there than in the room. I know a lot of the beaches in St. John are a ways from the resort. Is renting a car in St. Thomas and brining over on the ferry the best way to get around, or are there reasonable local transportation options to get back to the hotel from these beaches?

I'm really looking forward to the trip. My wife called yesterday to check on vacation possibilities in the near term and St John had all kinds of rooms available for his week in April. We just grabbed something and made our arrangements to go within the last 24 hours.


----------



## jarta

emuyshondt said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> Are there any second story studios? I know I have a 1 BR right now, but could use the extra Starotions I'd save for another vacation later in the year.
> 
> We are beach people too and would rather be there than in the room. I know a lot of the beaches in St. John are a ways from the resort. Is renting a car in St. Thomas and brining over on the ferry the best way to get around, or are there reasonable local transportation options to get back to the hotel from these beaches?
> 
> I'm really looking forward to the trip. My wife called yesterday to check on vacation possibilities in the near term and St John had all kinds of rooms available for his week in April. We just grabbed something and made our arrangements to go within the last 24 hours.



I don't know about 2nd story studios in VG.

Around the end of January and the beginning of February is the time of the year when Starwood starts locking out owners who have not paid their 2013 MF. Most people do not realize this is a very good time to find a StarOption reservation.  Availability opens up, but just for awhile.  It quickly closes as reservations are snapped up.

There is open air truck taxi service on WSJ.  It's OK for getting to shopping and restaurants in Cruz Bay (about 10 min. away) because free parking is quite limited in Cruz Bay.

I rent a car when I am at WSJ.  IMO, exploring the island and its north shore beaches is worth the car rental cost.  However, driving on St. John can be a unique experience.  Many rental cars have worn tires, there are plenty of hills and fairly steep switchbacks that can be slippery after a rain and you drive on the "wrong" side of the road.

Enjoy your stay at WSJ!   Salty


----------



## Henry M.

Do you rent a car in St. Thomas and bring it over, or do you prefer to get a jeep in St. John? Are the latter readily available or do you need a reservation well ahead of when you want it?

It doesn't sound like there's a practical way to get to all the beaches unless you rent a car. Is a four wheel drive vehicle preferable for the roads there? I think those are better rented on St. John, right?

I guess people there would argue that you drive on the "right" side of the road, regardless of whether it is right or wrong for us.


----------



## siesta

emuyshondt said:


> Do you rent a car in St. Thomas and bring it over, or do you prefer to get a jeep in St. John? Are the latter readily available or do you need a reservation well ahead of when you want it?
> 
> It doesn't sound like there's a practical way to get to all the beaches unless you rent a car. Is a four wheel drive vehicle preferable for the roads there? I think those are better rented on St. John, right?
> 
> I guess people there would argue that you drive on the "right" side of the road, regardless of whether it is right or wrong for us.


Some rental car companies will not permit you to rent a car and take it to st john via the ferry, Definitely go w a 4WD vehicle.


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## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> Do you rent a car in St. Thomas and bring it over, or do you prefer to get a jeep in St. John? Are the latter readily available or do you need a reservation well ahead of when you want it?
> 
> It doesn't sound like there's a practical way to get to all the beaches unless you rent a car. Is a four wheel drive vehicle preferable for the roads there? I think those are better rented on St. John, right?
> 
> I guess people there would argue that you drive on the "right" side of the road, regardless of whether it is right or wrong for us.



A lot has been written about StJ, WSJ, cars, food, activities, beaches, etc...

YMMV, but IMO...
We rent on StT and take car barge - but others rent on StJ for the entire time or short time, or depend on taxis.  It really depends on what your needs are.  If you plan to spend most of your time out and about (at beaches etc) then renting a 4WD is probably best.  Also, the USVI Gov't is allowing StJ rental companies to increase their fleets - so this may impact ease/cost of renting on StJ.

We rent from Amalie on StT - have found this to be best.  A bit more costly but worth it.  IMO

There are no upper floor studios - if it is a matter of SO use - then studios are less, but if it was just Robin and me - I would go with the 1 Bd mainly for the space, light, and like having a Bedroom and eating/living space that are separate.

We spend little time at the resort or the resort beach - but that us and our vacation style.

Parking right outside of the villa for the VG section is a big plus (for us) - and can get from villa to Trunk Bay (for example) in 17 mins.


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## jarta

emuyshondt said:


> Do you rent a car in St. Thomas and bring it over, or do you prefer to get a jeep in St. John? Are the latter readily available or do you need a reservation well ahead of when you want it?
> 
> It doesn't sound like there's a practical way to get to all the beaches unless you rent a car. Is a four wheel drive vehicle preferable for the roads there? I think those are better rented on St. John, right?
> 
> I guess people there would argue that you drive on the "right" side of the road, regardless of whether it is right or wrong for us.



All rental cars on St. John by law are supposed to have 4-wheel drive.  There is a reason for this.  You'll appreciate why it's that way shortly after you leave WSJ and the Cruz Bay area.

I have always rented at the resort.  O'Connor Car Rental.  You can start their reservation process by going to the web site.  Make sure to mention you want a car with good tires.  Quite a few St. John rental cars have pretty bald tires which are underinflated to compensate for the lack of tread.  

Many owners use O'Connor (just because it's convenient and easy, not because there are people there who treat you very well) and it seems a lot of fixed week owners make a reservation for the next year as they leave the resort.  The earlier you make a reservation, the better. 

http://www.oconnorcarrental.com/ 

BTW, rates are around $500 per week and you will be charged extra if you have much sand in the car when it's returned.

As a first time visitor to St. John, I'd recommend using O'Connor.  Reason?  KISS.   Enjoy your first visit to WSJ.   Salty


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## Henry M.

Thanks David and Jim. I think I'll go for the FWD on the island. Maybe take it day by day, since there's not a whole lot of savings renting for the whole week.


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## LisaRex

emuyshondt said:


> Thanks David and Jim. I think I'll go for the FWD on the island. Maybe take it day by day, since there's not a whole lot of savings renting for the whole week.



The downside to renting day by day is the paperwork.  And they have limited hours, so you have to work around that.  Oh, and you have to catch the employees at their desk.  The posted hours are merely a suggestion.


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## Henry M.

Good to know, Lisa.


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## DavidnRobin

I agree to the KISS approach generally, but it really is not that hard to rent on StT and take the car barge (lesson learned over the years) - as long as you know where you are going and how to get there.  Google Maps, Google Earth helps with this.  I have the directions stored on my iPhone that I got a while back from vinow.com that includes stopping to shop on StT.  I posted these somewhere on this thread as well as extensive trip reports by me and others to give you a flare of what to expect and what to do. I have also posted links to photos and videos.

We have taken about every method (except for private water taxi that I will leave up to the millionaires amoung us...) to get from STT to WSJ.  Our travel party's favorite way to go now is to use Amalie Car Rental on StT.  They meet you with the vehicle with everything ready to go outside of STT (and great people as well).  Their 4WDs are almost brand new, and the they make it very easy departing and arriving (using the KISS principle). It is about 45min to RedHook to catch the car barge across to StJ which are constantly coming/going to/from StT/StJ.  About $35 per car each way.  It is about 5min from the StJ drop-off to WSJ.  Once you do this - you will ask yourself (like we did) why didn't I do this before?  

Note: we do not shop on StT anymore... not worth the savings as there are plenty of grocery stores on StJ - unless you need to pickup things that are hard to find or too expensive on StJ - such as beach chairs, beach towels, beach umbrella, water toys, snorkel/mask, fins, etc.

Snorkel/masks and fins are really expensive to rent on StJ (and often trashed).
We bring our own snorkel/mask - plus we have travel fins that can be purchased cheaply on line.  I also wear a snorkel vest for safety reasons (for us both) - even though it can be geeky - because I do not want to be 'that guy'. btw, someone drowned at Waterlemon last week  
Be careful, conditions can change (and do) and sh*t can happen (and does).
If you are strong swimmer and snorkler - snorkle from Salt Pond beach out to the Blue Cobblestone beach/Rams Head area.  LisaRex's husband goes further out to Booby Rock, but I think that is crazy/dangerous - especially alone.

Also - bring plenty of sun shirts (the good kind with UVA/B blockage that dry out quickly) - I wear 2 of these - one that is loose fitting on the outside.  As a very fair-skinned person these have proved to be a life saver, and I can hang in the sun and water all day.  They are also somewhat bouyant and give protection from the water temp (it can get could after an hour in the water) and scrapes from coral/rock (that should never happen, but...)

We also bring a 'para-sheet' for laying on the beach - very light, and sand and water resistant (it will rain...).

On the way back from the beach - stop by Woody's ToGo window during Happy Hour and pick-up some Bushwackers to take back to the villa (open containers are allowed on StJ as long as no one is drinking or drunk - of course).  Robin usually picks them up while we wait in the car.  Yum - I can't wait - soon come June.


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## Henry M.

Does the barge fare for the car include the driver an passengers? That would be a lot less expensive than using the Westin transfers. The car cost would be about the same, whether you rent from O'Connor or Amalie. Maybe a little more in StT since there's a surcharge to pick you up. Are the cars from Amalie much better than what you get on StJ?


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## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> Does the barge fare for the car include the driver an passengers? That would be a lot less expensive than using the Westin transfers. The car cost would be about the same, whether you rent from O'Connor or Amalie. Maybe a little more in StT since there's a surcharge to pick you up. Are the cars from Amalie much better than what you get on StJ?



The car barge does not charge per passenger, or luggage (the passenger ferries charge per person as well as per bag - as do the taxis...).  There is a surcharge of something like $2.50 on the RedHook side when you drive into the boarding area.  Also - only pay for 1-way - that way you have more flexibility on the return trip (it is like a $5 difference).
Rates/Details are on vinow.com

http://www.amaliecar.com/
The cars at Amelia are the newest you will find anywhere on the islands - this is a key consideration after renting crappy 4WDs from Conrad Sutton and O'Connor on StJ, and Dependable on StT.  iirc - it was Phil Schrag (WSJ-VG BOD member) that turned me onto Amalie.  If you use Amalie - tell them DavidnRobin from the Timeshare Users Group referred you - they may waive the 5% charge for STT pick-up and drop-off.

I just sent in the reservation form for Amalie in June ($560/wk for the 4Dr Jeep XLT, the Jeep 2Dr hardtop is $530/wk in April) - things are very laid back on the USVI - so do not expect immediate attention or great internet access (from any of the outfits).  For example - if I do not hear from them after a few days - I will call them.  They will only accept credit card payments over the phone.  Downside is that they do not take AMEX (AMEX is not commonly taken in the USVI). They did not charge me a surcharge to pick-up or drop-off at STT, but we are renting for 2 weeks.

Go Slow.

also - I bring a mini-mini RCA connector for playing music in the car as we always have music playing. I also got a small JamBox (bluetooth speakers) for XMAS that I can't wait to use on vacation (by the pool, at the beach...).


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## DavidnRobin

Post with link to trip reports
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1271378&postcount=8


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## LisaRex

As far as beach chairs go, we rented chairs from Trunk Bay.  The rental was very reasonable, maybe $6/day + a $25 deposit??  In the future, I might just rent one on the first day and then keep it for the week.   Well worth $30 to have a beach chair, especially since I do a lot of reading on the beach while my husband tries to kill himself swimming to Booby Rock.


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## Henry M.

I just finalized my airline reservations and the room size question took care of itself, as there were no other options anymore when we checked today. We must have hit it just right when we called yesterday. 

I've decided this time I will rent a car on St. John. I don't want to deal with a 45 min ride to get to Red Hook and possibly have to wait long for the car ferry. Prices are about the same for O'Connor and Amalie Car. I realize Amalie might have nicer vehicles. 

Now I'm starting to look into ferries. The Westin ferry seems the simplest, but at a cost. We may take a cab, stop by a market, and take one of the other ferries. Are cab drivers willing to make a stop like that? Can you trust them enough to leave your luggage in their car to run in and out of the store?

I understand there may be more than one location to take a ferry to Cruz Bay. I'm still not sure how much cheaper it is for 2 people. If a cab is $15 pp on STT, and then another $10 on STJ, plus $10 for the ferry (with 1 bag), that's about $70 round trip. The WSJ ticket is $110, but that includes unlimited travel to STT, and a certain level of convenience getting from and to the airport without having to deal with what are sometimes described as shifty and less than friendly locals. I'll be doing more reading tomorrow.  

This trip has come together in a little over 24 hours and somewhat by chance. We had not really done any research when the opportunity to go opened up. I appreciate all the pointers and all the effort from David in the detailed trip reports and videos. I still have a lot more studying to do to plan the beaches we should visit and any other activities we will want to do. We usually end up hiking or spending most of the day in the water, snorkeling and swimming. 

Is there the equivalent of the Hawaii Revealed books available for St. John?


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## LisaRex

This is a site that DavidnRobin referred me to.  It offers a lot of great information, such as ferry schedules and rates, and taxi schedules. 

http://www.vinow.com/

Here's another site that I found.  It gives directions to a few grocery stores on St. Thomas.   

http://www.best-virgin-islands-guide.com/virgin-islands-groceries.html

The first 2 times I've gone to WSJ, I used the Westin ferry.  Pricy, but no regrets because it gave me a stress-free start to my vacation.  I didn't have to drive around on my own (on the left, no less) and try to navigate my way to the nearest ferry in unfamiliar territory.  If this was my first visit, I'd definitely opt to do this again. The downside is the price.  

Depending on your arrival time, you may want to check your bags at the Westin desk at the airport, then head to the grocery store in a taxi. Just be sure to tell the attendant what your plans are so that they can store your luggage should you miss the next ferry. 

FYI, the next time I go, I'll rent a vehicle on St. Thomas, drive to Food Center and stock up.  Then we'll take the car ferry over to St. John.  Since I know my way around the island, this doesn't intimidate me.


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## bobpark56

LisaRex said:


> The first 2 times I've gone to WSJ, I used the Westin ferry.  Pricy, but no regrets because it gave me a stress-free start to my vacation.  I didn't have to drive around on my own (on the left, no less) and try to navigate my way to the nearest ferry in unfamiliar territory.  If this was my first visit, I'd definitely opt to do this again. The downside is the price.
> 
> Depending on your arrival time, you may want to check your bags at the Westin desk at the airport, then head to the grocery store in a taxi. Just be sure to tell the attendant what your plans are so that they can store your luggage should you miss the next ferry. <snip>



If you are taking the Westin ferry, there is a grocery store at the marina where the ferry picks you up. If you have time between arriving at the marina and boarding the ferry, you can pick up a goodly starter set of groceries (and wine or liquor, if that is on your list)...at a better price than you would pay on St John. You need only carry your grocery bags to to dock. After that, the ferry folks and Westin folks will see that they get to your unit (assuming you have a unit already assigned). We always bring a sturdy bag or 2 for trucking groceries, and that helps a bit here (also helpful for carrying stuff to the beaches).

One advantage of renting a vehicle on St John is that you can save a day or 2 of rental fees. We arrive in the afternoon, spend that day resting, then pick up the vehicle next morning. On return, we drop the vehicle off the day before catching the morning ferry back to St. Thomas.


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## LisaRex

bobpark56 said:


> If you are taking the Westin ferry, there is a grocery store at the marina where the ferry picks you up. If you have time between arriving at the marina and boarding the ferry, you can pick up a goodly starter set of groceries (and wine or liquor, if that is on your list)...at a better price than you would pay on St John.



We've done this before, after lunching at Tickles, which is right at the dock.  However, I thought that the prices here were pretty astronomical.  By far the best prices I saw were at the Food Center on St. Thomas.


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## Henry M.

Are there several ferry companies that pick up at the same dock as the Westin ferry? I understand that other ferries leave every half hour, while the Westin ferry leaves every hour. The harbor is not far from the airport but the boat ride is longer than if you go to Red Hook. So you either spend time in a car or on the boat, and I prefer the latter.

Can you decide which ferry to take when you get to the airport, or is it better to make a reservation for the Westin ferry well ahead of arrival? I would be comfortable taking a short taxi drive and saving perhaps $40/person while seeing a little bit of St. Thomas. I don't expect I'll have enough time during the week to be making a lot of trips back and forth. If I expected to be going to St. Thomas more, perhaps the Westin shuttle would be a better deal, since it includes unlimited travel between the islands. It would have been nice to go for two weeks, but that was just not in the cards for this trip. Hopefully there will be many more to come.

Have any of you found a good dive shop for a diving trip out of St. Thomas? Any recommendations of destinations with not too deep of a dive and lots of fish and coral life? My wife and I are certified SCUBA divers, but it has been a while since we've dived, and would like to do perhaps one easy dive during this trip.

How does snorkeling in St. John compare to say Belize (the barrier reef near San Pedro in Ambergris Caye)? Any secret beaches to go to with our rental car that have great snorkeling?

I ordered a book called "St. John Feet, Fins and Four Wheel Drive" that was recommended to me. Perhaps it will answer some of these questions. I should have it in a couple of days.

David mentioned many car companies don't take AmEx. O'Connor did offer AmEx as an option when I made my reservation. I also have an insurance plan on the Starwood card I used that includes rental car insurance for something like $24.95/rental, not per day. I plan to use that. Rental car companies usually charge a lot more for insurance. I decided to rent on St. John as the price for a 4WD Jeep vehicle was about $85-$90/day on either island.

The trip is still 2 months away, but we're already excited about being there.


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## DavidnRobin

Your info regarding ferries is incorrect.
The Westin ferry is a private ferry - it does not run every hour. The Westin ferry is close to STT (Crown Bay Marina).  Westin has their own taxi to take you to Crown Bay and is only about 10 mins away.  It is quick and easy - and Westin will deal with your luggage at the satellite office that is at STT. And it drops off at the Westin dock where you are picked up by the WSJ shuttles (golf carts called Iguana's) and your bags will be delivered to your villa separately.
I haven't checked for a while, but last time I did it was $110pp RT for Owners.  For us, party of 4, that is $440 (almost the cost of a 1 week 4WD rental!)

If you plan to go back/forth to/from StJ to StT, then the Westin ferry is the way to go as you get unlimited trips, BUT I am not sure why anyone would want to do this (other than for jewelry shopping).  IMO, StT sucks - you will see what I mean when you get to see both islands.

The RedHook ferries (car and passenger) are on other side of StT from STT. About a 45min drive from STT. The taxis that take you there are likely to pickup and drop off other passengers along the way as they are open buses and not taxis in the traditional sense.  There is also a passenger ferry out of Charlotte Amalie which is about 15 mins from STT.  It has a shorter taxi ride, and longer ferry ride, but has restrictive times. RedHook has the shortest ferry ride, Westin ferry has the longest. I agree that I would rather spend more time on ferry, but that is not the only consideration.
Taxis charge per person and also per piece of luggage.  Details of taxis and public ferries are on vinow.com - they also list cruise ships which you will want to pay attention to for Honeymoon, Trunk, and Cinnamon Bay beaches. (Advice - stay away from these beaches from mid-morning to mid-afternoon on these days)
iirc - the last time Robin and I took a taxi to RedHook, it costs up ~$40 one-way, but I gave a good tip because 'Torch' gave us a private tour of StT and comedy act... It probably costs around $30 (2 passengers, 2 pieces of luggage) 1-way from STT to RedHook.

I did not say rental agencies did not take AMEX - I said Amalie (my fav) does not.  I do not know about the others on STT.  I used Dependable once (never again), but do not recall if they took AMEX.  What I did say that many USVI businesses do not take AMEX - so make sure you also have a VISA/MC card as backup.  I also use the AMEX coverage for rentals - so I wish Amalie took it, but they don't and I still use them (this may become apparent if you get to see the differences).

As mentioned - I have done almost every type transit of method except using taxis exclusively on StJ.  I do not understand why one would spend all the time, money, and effort to go to StJ and depend on taxis to get around unless you rarely plan to leave WSJ.


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## LisaRex

Here is a text of the document that the Westin concierge sent me prior to our 2012 trip.  Note that ferry times might have changed since then, so be sure to ask for the most current schedule.

"Thank you for choosing The Westin St. John Resort & Villas! Below you will find a brief summary of our customized transportation service. Soon you will be arriving at the Westin St. John Resort & Villas to rejuvenate and relax. We want to provide you with a smooth arrival process, so you may begin to relax and unwind as soon as possible.

Upon your arrival at the Cyril E. King Airport, please claim your luggage and proceed towards The Westin Airport Lounge, located near the baggage claim area. Our welcome desk staff will provide you a warm welcome, register you, collect your luggage, and provide you with your ferry pass for the Westin Breeze ferry transportation (the transfer charges will be added to your room bill). Taxis depart regularly from the airport to our docking location at Crown Bay Marina for your final transfer to the Westin St. John resort. 

All inclusive Roundtrip transfer includes the taxi ride to Crown Bay Marina (St. Thomas docking location) following with the ferry to The Westin St. John Resort and on your departure, the return ferry and the taxi ride to the airport. Also includes all luggage handling and unlimited shopping trips to St. Thomas (Crown Bay Marina Only) to explore and shop for you and your
loved ones. 

Should you decide to travel by public ferry transportation please see the website below regarding pricing and schedules at http://www.vinow.com/general_usvi/interisland_ferry/
If you are interested in exploring our beautiful island by car we recommend our convenient on sight car rental agency, O’Connor Jeep Rental. For further information on car rentals, special amenities, reservations at one of our fabulous restaurants or planning activities please contact or email our Concierge team at Concierge.01098@westin.com or Phone: 340.693.8000 extension 1936.

If you have any questions about this information, we would be happy to provide you with assistance. Please feel free to contact us at 01098.guestrelations@westin.com 

FERRY DEPARTURE TIMES
WESTIN DOCK..............CROWN BAY
6:00 AM (Red Hook)......(none)
7:00 AM (Red Hook)......(none)
9:00 AM......................10:00 AM
11:00 AM.....................12:45 AM
1:45 PM*......................3:00 PM
(none)..........................5:30 PM*
(none)..........................7:30 PM (Red Hook)


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## DavidnRobin

LR - or anyone? - what are the Westin fees for using the Westin ferry nowadays?

added:
http://www.westinresortstjohn.com/assets/u/Transportation2012.pdf

It now looks as if the price is $120pp RT.  Not sure if there is an Owners' discount anymore.

Also - forgot to mention - that sometime (as shown above) the Westin ferry goes to RedHook - not only during the off hours - but also when the weather is bad.  One may appreciate the shorter ferry ride when the seas are angry.  The car barges have the largest draft, and therefore more stable in rough seas.  I have read some funny stories (TripAdvisor) about some people's experiences on the Westin ferry in rough seas (and make it sound like it was WSJ's fault - lol)


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## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> Have any of you found a good dive shop for a diving trip out of St. Thomas? Any recommendations of destinations with not too deep of a dive and lots of fish and coral life? My wife and I are certified SCUBA divers, but it has been a while since we've dived, and would like to do perhaps one easy dive during this trip.
> 
> How does snorkeling in St. John compare to say Belize (the barrier reef near San Pedro in Ambergris Caye)? Any secret beaches to go to with our rental car that have great snorkeling?
> 
> I ordered a book called "St. John Feet, Fins and Four Wheel Drive" that was recommended to me. Perhaps it will answer some of these questions. I should have it in a couple of days.




Re: Diving - I do not SCUBA anymore, but members of our travel party have.  They have been happy with CruzBay watersports at WSJ which takes off from the WSJ dock (big plus) and does a fine job in taking people out, and will make sure all people are comfortable. Of course it is important to make sure they are aware of your comfort level and diving experience.  There are no real deep dives off of StJ.  There is better diving in the BVIs (IMO) - but you have to hassle with Customs and Immigration.

Last time I dove - it had been a while, so I did a refresher course (in a pool)at a local dive shop. I would recommend this not only for safety reasons, but also not to hamper the other divers in your group. 

As to snorkeling - I have never been to Belize, but the snorkeling off of StJ beaches and around the multiple cays of StT/StJ and BVIs are fantastic (IMO).
Westin5Star may be able to give you a better assessment as he is a snorkel maniac (or so I have heard) and travels around more than we do.

As to 'secret' beaches - check out these articles:
http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2013/01/st-johns-secret-beach.html#comments
http://www.on-stjohn.com/2013/01/30/we-love-trunk-bay/#comments

I am not sure there are any 'secret' beaches - more like ones that are harder to get to.
I would say The Blue Cobblestone beach probably fits that catagory, as well as the area Tektite where the underwater biosphere was located (never been there... but plan to someday)

Also - the book 'StJ Off the Beaten Track' is better than 'Feet Fins and 4WD' IMO YMMV


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## Henry M.

I just downloaded the St. John Off the Beaten Track to my iPad.  It is a lot newer than the other one I got. Thanks for the tip.

I'll check with the resort for any transportation owner discounts.


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## LisaRex

$120 pp + $40 for a "shopping pass" is simply ridiculous.  Since we were heading to St. Thomas for a fishing charter, I could somewhat justify the exorbitant charge.  $60 per person each way for a taxi, ferry to St. John, and luggage transportation is simply not worth it. 

It's even more ridiculous now that they've replaced the "Westin Breeze" with  the "Westin Rust Bucket."  I don't expect white glove treatment, but I certainly expect the ferry to be clean and freshly painted. 

Ah well.


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## Cornhusker

I just wanted to thank David, Lisa, jarta, Bob, and all the other WSJ vets for the information.  And thanks to Emu for asking great questions!!!  We recently got a 3-BD BV booked on SO's the first week of Sept (Fri-Fri stay) so we could check out the property and the island for the first time.  I figured it would be a good time to find an opening given the time of year and the fact school has restarted.  A few family members will be joining us though travelling separately.  We will be doing the anti-hurricane dance for the next 8 months!!! 

Kinda torn on which ferry to book.  The Westin ferry looks convenient but we arrive in STT at 6PM so it is after the ferry times that depart from Crown Bay apparently.  It appears the final Westin ferry at 7:30PM which they have added departs from Redhook anyway so will probably just take the public ferry and endure the cab/bus thingy ride.  The money saved should almost pay for one ticket on the Bad Kitty if we decide to do that.  The car barge is definitely out of the question as we arrive after the last one departs.

We will have to try to figure a way to watch our beloved college football team on Saturday so will plan a resort familarization day around that.  I am looking into the slingbox type of systems but have read that internet connections are not fast so will probably be disappointed trying to stream video from BTN2GO.  No biggie if it does not work too well.  We will have food and grog and a pool and beach....and can just check the score later!!!

Lots of time to plan our week.  Waiting until Sept will be the hard part!!!!


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## oneohana

The $120 still includes unlimted shopping trips to St Thomas. The shopping pass is for people that didn't take the WSJ ferry over.


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## steve1000

Cornhusker said:


> We will have to try to figure a way to watch our beloved college football team on Saturday so will plan a resort familarization day around that.  I am looking into the slingbox type of systems but have read that internet connections are not fast so will probably be disappointed trying to stream video from BTN2GO.  QUOTE]
> 
> We had good internet connectivity last year from our BV unit. I hope you get to see the game. As a fellow Husker fan - GO BIG RED!


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## polly0014

Thank you for this thread!  45 pages+ whew...lots of info.  Haven't read it all yet...but wanted to ask a question regarding grocery delivery...has anyone used   villafoodvi?  I've emailed them and called with no response, so we were wondering if they are still afloat?  
Here is the link...http://www.villafoodvi.com/
Their selection seems somewhat limited.  Cost of delivery?  Any input is appreciated!  We totally lucked out in reserving (using staroptions at the 8 month mark) a 2 BR Loft this summer.  We're excited to take our 10 year old and 6 year old to a new island!!!  Taking everyone's advice on transportation from STT and exploring renting a car/ferry/etc...

Thanks so much!  -Polly


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## Cornhusker

Thanks for the info Steve.  Sounds like it will be worth taking the equipment even though we are not likely to use the TV much outside of the Husker game.  I always have to take my laptop on trips anyway for (sigh) work emergencies....or what others THINK are emergencies.

Really looking forward to experiencing St John.  GBR!!!


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## DavidnRobin

polly0014 said:


> Thank you for this thread!  45 pages+ whew...lots of info.  Haven't read it all yet...but wanted to ask a question regarding grocery delivery...has anyone used   villafoodvi?  I've emailed them and called with no response, so we were wondering if they are still afloat?
> Here is the link...http://www.villafoodvi.com/
> Their selection seems somewhat limited.  Cost of delivery?  Any input is appreciated!  We totally lucked out in reserving (using staroptions at the 8 month mark) a 2 BR Loft this summer.  We're excited to take our 10 year old and 6 year old to a new island!!!  Taking everyone's advice on transportation from STT and exploring renting a car/ferry/etc...
> 
> Thanks so much!  -Polly



Make sure you read the trip reports.

Never used a food delivery service.  The StJ Market is right next to the resort - <5 mins from 3Bd pool villas (?) - so it is easy to get to.  I do believe that WSJ will supply some groceries.  Contact the Concierge -
Concierge.01098@westin.com or Phone: 340.693.8000 extension 1936

People also use taxis to take them to grocery stores - StarFish Market is between Cruz Bay and WSJ, and I often see taxis outside.  We use both StJ and Starfish Markets, but we bring a vehicle over from StT.

It seems that businesses and people (generalizing...) of StJ take pride in the lack of being internet saavy, and move quite slow with regards to emails.
It is always best to call - make sure you say
'Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening' and make small talk - always helps especially if you are talking to a true islander (you can tell by the thick accent).

Enjoy and important to remember 2 things about StJ (USVI)...
Go Slow
Adapt

and you will enjoy your visit much more.

Oh yeah... the power will go out, it will rain, and there will be mosquitoes (and noseeums).


----------



## polly0014

Thank you so much!  I'm going through several of your trip reports now!  So much helpful info!  Many thanks!


----------



## gigi1313

Just booked for early August and I'm incredibly excited!  I know I have a lot to learn... Starting with: what to pack?  Also, do the 2br units have washer/dryers?
Plan to do a little cooking, maybe some grilling, and a few restaurants... suggestions on groceries, restaurants, etc happily accepted!

Could someone point me in the direction of trip reports or this property?
THANKS!!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

gigi1313 said:


> Just booked for early August and I'm incredibly excited!  I know I have a lot to learn... Starting with: what to pack?  Also, do the 2br units have washer/dryers?
> Plan to do a little cooking, maybe some grilling, and a few restaurants... suggestions on groceries, restaurants, etc happily accepted!
> 
> Could someone point me in the direction of trip reports or this property?
> THANKS!!!



Excited for you.
Need to peruse this thread. I linked trip reports not too long ago (post 1088) and there are plenty of linked sites to all things StJ.
The villas are fully contained - so yes to washer/dryer.


----------



## polly0014

I'm wondering if there is a stovetop AND oven in a 2BR Loft...I've read conflicting reports.  That will be a huge factor in what items we bring in cooler bags.  Thanks!


----------



## applekor

Stove top but no oven.  Microwave is a convection oven


----------



## Henry M.

Is stove top/microwave the standard for the 1BR units too?

Is it worth trying to get a specific 1BR unit, or are they all about the same up on the hillside?


----------



## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> Is stove top/microwave the standard for the 1BR units too?
> 
> Is it worth trying to get a specific 1BR unit, or are they all about the same up on the hillside?



All the Hillside 1Bd are the same.  I cannot speak to the kitchen set-up for the 1Bd, but the 2Bd TH villas have an oven, stovetop, and microwave.

Not sure what you mean by getting a specific 1Bd villa - these villa are fixed week/fixed unit - and are not floating.


----------



## Carolyn

The hillside 1 BR townhome (premium) villas also have an oven, stovetop, and microwave.


----------



## Henry M.

I meant asking for a particular villa number, but I guess that is not possible. Given that they are not floating, I was probably assigned a specific unit already. 

The confirmation from Starwood says "Floaitng - assigned at Check-in" so I was considering putting in a request for a particular building, if it would make a difference.


----------



## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> I meant asking for a particular villa number, but I guess that is not possible. Given that they are not floating, I was probably assigned a specific unit already.
> 
> The confirmation from Starwood says "Floaitng - assigned at Check-in" so I was considering putting in a request for a particular building, if it would make a difference.



A building request may be more flexible - for the 1Bd it really comes down to either being in B31/32 or B32/34.  Look at resort map.  B31/32 is slightly closer to the resort (therefore shorter walk) if that is what appeals to you.  We are in B34 - I have posted views from our villa and B33/34 pool area.  I have never seen the view from B31/B32 (e.g. pool area), but I am sure it has a fantastic view as well since all buildings sit up on hill (therefore Hillside...).

You can see them on Google Earth

I have a distant photo of the Hillside Buildings (taken from Jacobs Ladder) to give perspective that map does not.
Taken in 2006 before new roofs and siding. The 1Bd are at the top of buidings in the center - you can see the balconies  (the 2Bd are on the outside)


----------



## Henry M.

Thanks, David. 

I looked at the map in Owner Resources and at Google Earth. It doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of difference in what building I end up in. One less thing to worry about! 

I went into Google Earth on my iPad. I typed Westin St. John in the search box and it actually pointed out two locations. The second one was at the resort we all know, but the first one was one bay to the east, labeled Chocolate Hole. I don't know how old the data is, but it shows a relatively large construction area at that bay on Pond Bay Road. The top of that area is where the first WSJ marker is. The area looks to be almost the same size as the current WSJ area. Is the construction there related to WSJ? If not, is it some other resort?


----------



## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> I went into Google Earth on my iPad. I typed Westin St. John in the search box and it actually pointed out two locations. The second one was at the resort we all know, but the first one was one bay to the east, labeled Chocolate Hole. I don't know how old the data is, but it shows a relatively large construction area at that bay on Pond Bay Road. The top of that area is where the first WSJ marker is. The area looks to be almost the same size as the current WSJ area. Is the construction there related to WSJ? If not, is it some other resort?



It is/was development at Pond Bay...
http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/local-news/2012/04/02/pond-bay-club-auction-block


----------



## Henry M.

I tried to find more information about Pond Bay Club, but the latest post I found was on Trip Advisor, mentioning mid last May that the May 2 auction was withdrawn a couple of days before it was scheduled. 

I'll see if I can find out more about the area when I am there in April. The area is pretty much adjacent to WSJ.


----------



## Crasherino

*Looking to buy WSJ Timeshare*

Hey all -

Long time visitor of STJ, first time poster here.  Apologies in advance for the long post. 

Was hoping to get some feedback after wading through this thread (over the last several months).  

My family and I (kids are almost 6 and 3) love St. John and endeavor to go every year.  Going forward, we would likely be limited to going over Christmas Week and/or Presidents Week on account of school holidays.  

We have stayed at various different Westin Villas over the years (2bdrm Hillside, studio hillside, 3 bdrm BV, etc.) both with other families as well as by ourselves, in addition to stays at villa rentals on the Cruz Bay side (still haven't stayed at Co.  We've sat through two different Time Share presentations (one on our Honeymoon, one this past year) first for the freebies but also for the lay of the land.  We are now considering taking the plunge.  

I have a number of questions that I thought I could throw out to the masses and get some thoughts/feedback...so here we go:

1.  Is Starwood currently subsidizing the maintenance at the Bay Vista Villas?  If so, will they willingly admit that and give any info as to how long they intend to do so?  

2.  Is there any way to see the finances prior to purchasing?  

3.  Our goal is to spend the overwhelming majority of time in STJ so I am not especially concerned with the ability to transfer to a different resort (although I suppose its possible we may consider that occasionally).  So, having the SO is not on the top of my priorities.  That being said, the incentives offered by SVN are fairly attractive (250K SPs).  Is there a reason I should be going re-sale beyond price?  Having looked around a bit, I haven't seen many platinum plus weeks at competitive rates (although I might not be looking in the right places).  

4.  Being able to secure the week of my choice is probably my biggest concern.  We are most interested in the 2 bdrm loft.  However, I believe there are only 8 of those units.  How many of those units does the Westin make available to Timeshare owners at any given week and will I be constantly shut out of them when I try to book during these two highest volume weeks?  Is there some type of formula that governs the availability of these units?  Obviously the resort would like to retain XMas/Prez Week to sell retail.  

5.  How does the Platinum Plus period work?  Is Xmas week 2013 the same year as Pres Week 2014 or is everything strictly calendar year?  In other words, if I am trying to plan my vacation for next year's school year, the Xmas week is a different year than the Prez Week, for reservation purposes, right?  

6.  Is the price from Starwood at all negotiable?  They quoted us a range from approx $53K for a 2brm to $63K for a 3 bdrm with a 2 bdrm loft falling somewhere close to the 3 bdrm price.  They made it a point of saying that they have "price integrity" - meaning they don't negotiate (Love euphemisms.).  

I'm sure there are other things I am missing.  If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions that we need to consider I would love to hear them.  If we do take the plunge directly from Starwood, we would wait until we are there again to take advantage of the incentives.  So, we have a little time.  

TIA.


----------



## Henry M.

The biggest reason to purchase resale is that the original owner took the beating for buying from Starwood. Redweek.com is currently listing asking prices for a 2BR/2BA unit for $18,500 (both WSJ-Bay Vista). Don't know what season. There's a week 11 listed for $10,000. A 3BR/3BA floating unit is listed for $22,000. 

On the other hand, you might not find exactly what you want in the reslae market unless you are willing to wait for a while until the right unit comes along. 

250K Starpoints would be worth about $5,000 to me. Even with that off the price from Starwood, it doesn't make up for the savings if you buy resale. You lose the most buying a non-mandatory resort, like the BV section of WSJ.

I bought from the developer in Maui. I didn't know about the resale market, and  when I found out about it, the units there were perhaps 75% of the retail price from Starwood. They've come down a lot since then. At the time I figured I'd take a severe beating if I ever tried to sell, but had no intention of doing that. I still don't.

What I didn't count on was how fast the maintenance fees went up. They seem to be more stable now, but still go up a couple of percent a year. 

In spite of all this, I am still glad I have my units, and have memories of Maui and other resorts that are priceless. I'll be going to WSJ for the first time in April. I hope I don't get bit by the bug there too! In my next life, I'll probably buy resale and retro the weeks back into the SW system - my SPG Platinum benefits have made my international travel much nicer. I would also still buy where I want to go, since I don't like to gamble on the availability of weeks in high season. Though my children are grown now, I still want to get away from the Texas heat in July or August. 

I bought because of the ability to trade for hotel rooms in locations where there are no resorts. However, I rarely do that, and keep going back to Maui every year. I use the lock off feature to trade to other regions, but my home resort is now my second home, without most of the hassles of vacation home ownership. The maintenance fees are probably not that much more than what I would pay with full ownership of a house, and I own just about all the time I can spend away, so I couldn't use a house much more.


----------



## GregT

DavidnRobin said:


> The 1Bd are at the top of buidings in the center - you can see the balconies  (the 2Bd are on the outside)



David,

I'm sorry, can you help me visualize where the 1BRs are?   "At the top of buildings in the center" -- does that mean top floor, center of the building?

Sorry if I'm not very visual/spatial....

Thanks!


----------



## DavidnRobin

There are essentially 2 levels (entrances) for each building that has 3 stories (at least for B33, B34).  On each end of the building for both levels are the 2Bd Townhouses - between these 2Bd THs on the bottom level are the studios (single floor), and on the upper level between the 2Bd THs (on the ends) are the 1Bd villas which each have a lower and upper floor.

Here is a drawing that may help - a front-view of a Hillside Building


----------



## GregT

DavidnRobin said:


> There are essentially 2 levels (entrances) for each building that has 3 stories (at least for B33, B34).  On each end of the building for both levels are the 2Bd Townhouses - between these 2Bd THs on the bottom level are the studios (single floor), and on the upper level between the 2Bd THs (on the ends) are the 1Bd villas which each have a lower and upper floor.



Thank you -- that is helpful.   

So does that mean that there are four 2BR's in each building (2 on each end -- kind of "nested") and therefore in between are four Studios (first floor) and four 1BR's (second and third floors)?

I didn't realize that's how they lay out -- thanks again!

Greg


----------



## DavidnRobin

See photo - there are more than 4 villas in-between the 2Bds - more like 8 on bottom (studios) and 6 on top (1Bd)
Those cresent windows on sides (2 on each side) are the 2Bd THs


----------



## DavidnRobin

Crasherino said:


> Hey all -
> 
> Long time visitor of STJ, first time poster here.  Apologies in advance for the long post.
> 
> Was hoping to get some feedback after wading through this thread (over the last several months).
> 
> My family and I (kids are almost 6 and 3) love St. John and endeavor to go every year.  Going forward, we would likely be limited to going over Christmas Week and/or Presidents Week on account of school holidays.
> 
> We have stayed at various different Westin Villas over the years (2bdrm Hillside, studio hillside, 3 bdrm BV, etc.) both with other families as well as by ourselves, in addition to stays at villa rentals on the Cruz Bay side (still haven't stayed at Co.  We've sat through two different Time Share presentations (one on our Honeymoon, one this past year) first for the freebies but also for the lay of the land.  We are now considering taking the plunge.
> 
> I have a number of questions that I thought I could throw out to the masses and get some thoughts/feedback...so here we go:
> 
> 1.  Is Starwood currently subsidizing the maintenance at the Bay Vista Villas?  If so, will they willingly admit that and give any info as to how long they intend to do so?
> 
> 2.  Is there any way to see the finances prior to purchasing?
> 
> 3.  Our goal is to spend the overwhelming majority of time in STJ so I am not especially concerned with the ability to transfer to a different resort (although I suppose its possible we may consider that occasionally).  So, having the SO is not on the top of my priorities.  That being said, the incentives offered by SVN are fairly attractive (250K SPs).  Is there a reason I should be going re-sale beyond price?  Having looked around a bit, I haven't seen many platinum plus weeks at competitive rates (although I might not be looking in the right places).
> 
> 4.  Being able to secure the week of my choice is probably my biggest concern.  We are most interested in the 2 bdrm loft.  However, I believe there are only 8 of those units.  How many of those units does the Westin make available to Timeshare owners at any given week and will I be constantly shut out of them when I try to book during these two highest volume weeks?  Is there some type of formula that governs the availability of these units?  Obviously the resort would like to retain XMas/Prez Week to sell retail.
> 
> 5.  How does the Platinum Plus period work?  Is Xmas week 2013 the same year as Pres Week 2014 or is everything strictly calendar year?  In other words, if I am trying to plan my vacation for next year's school year, the Xmas week is a different year than the Prez Week, for reservation purposes, right?
> 
> 6.  Is the price from Starwood at all negotiable?  They quoted us a range from approx $53K for a 2brm to $63K for a 3 bdrm with a 2 bdrm loft falling somewhere close to the 3 bdrm price.  They made it a point of saying that they have "price integrity" - meaning they don't negotiate (Love euphemisms.).
> 
> I'm sure there are other things I am missing.  If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions that we need to consider I would love to hear them.  If we do take the plunge directly from Starwood, we would wait until we are there again to take advantage of the incentives.  So, we have a little time.
> 
> TIA.



Hi -  I am not a WSJ-BV expert, so others will have to chime-in on the details.  We own a 2Bd/3Ba TH villa in the Hillside phase (VG) - as we like the ability to park outside our villa, and the semi-private pool/BBQ/patio area just a few steps away.  Plus, we rarely go to the main resort, and like being away from the action.

As you seem pretty familiar with the BV section and appear to be looking at the 2Bd BV Loft... I have not seen many of these (if any) on the resale market.  Also, you are looking for specific weeks that are not only Plat+, but also event weeks which come at a premium of a cost that is already very high. There are not many places to look other than RedWeek and Real Estate brokers on StJ.

If you buy from SVO/WSJ-BV you will get StarOptions, the ability to convert the SOs to StarPoints (not a good value, but does have convinence {sp?}factor), and likely additional SPs as incentives.  None of these make up for the high premium you will be paying for the Plat+ special weeks at BV (which is really high iirc).

Then there is always just renting the week/villa type you want - as it will take years to make up the difference (if you live that long...)

However, if this is what you want and can afford it - then your only recourse is to bite the bullet and buy from SVO/WSJ-VG as it will likely take some time to either find these villas resale at the times you want (which will not come with SOs or the ability to convert, or incentives), or for their prices to come down to make it worth it.

Also, WSJ-BV may be holding back selling all VOIs (TS weeks) for the BV phase until enough our sold from the original buildings.  I have no idea where they are yet with the sale of BV, but there were empty buildings last time I checked (2011).   Most likely - because of this - SVO is subsidizing WSJ-BV.

The future MFs for BV (once sold) is a major question/issue because it appears that once a resort is sold out the MFs appear to jump.  This makes sense because SVO/WSJ-VG want to make the appearance that the MFs are low in order to sell.  Once this is gone, then SVO moves on and has no incentive to keep MFs reduced (I have no concrete evidence about this other than history from other resorts).

I would PM jerseygirl about BV (not sure if she is reading TUG or this thread nowadays) - she knows a lot of what goes on at WSJ, and owns WSJ-BV.  She may be able to get you the financials (which are part of the MF report) - but be aware that these reports may not reflect the future financials (and thus MFs and potential refurbish costs).  Also, be aware of the property taxes which are always under attack for StJ.  Somehow, BV is not hit as hard as VG, but that could always change.

WSJ-VG got out of control finance wise, and Owners paid dearly for the HOA not keeping up reserves (at the cost of very low MFs - relatively) - those times have changed, but at least we have 2 WSJ-VG Owners on the HOA who are paying attention and looking our for our interests (this is my opinion - and not shared necessarily by those who were happy with the status quo, and the refurbish and maintenance issues that started this thread by me many years ago).

good luck.


----------



## GregT

DavidnRobin said:


> See photo - there are more than 4 villas in-between the 2Bds - more like 8 on bottom (studios) and 6 on top (1Bd)
> Those cresent windows on sides (2 on each side) are the 2Bd THs



David -- that is fantastic -- thanks for including this -- that makes alot of sense now.

Thanks again!

Greg


----------



## steve1000

Crasherino said:


> Hey all -
> 
> Long time visitor of STJ, first time poster here.  Apologies in advance for the long post.
> 
> Was hoping to get some feedback after wading through this thread (over the last several months).
> 
> My family and I (kids are almost 6 and 3) love St. John and endeavor to go every year.  Going forward, we would likely be limited to going over Christmas Week and/or Presidents Week on account of school holidays.
> 
> We have stayed at various different Westin Villas over the years (2bdrm Hillside, studio hillside, 3 bdrm BV, etc.) both with other families as well as by ourselves, in addition to stays at villa rentals on the Cruz Bay side (still haven't stayed at Co.  We've sat through two different Time Share presentations (one on our Honeymoon, one this past year) first for the freebies but also for the lay of the land.  We are now considering taking the plunge.
> 
> I have a number of questions that I thought I could throw out to the masses and get some thoughts/feedback...so here we go:
> 
> 1.  Is Starwood currently subsidizing the maintenance at the Bay Vista Villas?  If so, will they willingly admit that and give any info as to how long they intend to do so?
> 
> 2.  Is there any way to see the finances prior to purchasing?
> 
> 3.  Our goal is to spend the overwhelming majority of time in STJ so I am not especially concerned with the ability to transfer to a different resort (although I suppose its possible we may consider that occasionally).  So, having the SO is not on the top of my priorities.  That being said, the incentives offered by SVN are fairly attractive (250K SPs).  Is there a reason I should be going re-sale beyond price?  Having looked around a bit, I haven't seen many platinum plus weeks at competitive rates (although I might not be looking in the right places).
> 
> 4.  Being able to secure the week of my choice is probably my biggest concern.  We are most interested in the 2 bdrm loft.  However, I believe there are only 8 of those units.  How many of those units does the Westin make available to Timeshare owners at any given week and will I be constantly shut out of them when I try to book during these two highest volume weeks?  Is there some type of formula that governs the availability of these units?  Obviously the resort would like to retain XMas/Prez Week to sell retail.
> 
> 5.  How does the Platinum Plus period work?  Is Xmas week 2013 the same year as Pres Week 2014 or is everything strictly calendar year?  In other words, if I am trying to plan my vacation for next year's school year, the Xmas week is a different year than the Prez Week, for reservation purposes, right?
> 
> 6.  Is the price from Starwood at all negotiable?  They quoted us a range from approx $53K for a 2brm to $63K for a 3 bdrm with a 2 bdrm loft falling somewhere close to the 3 bdrm price.  They made it a point of saying that they have "price integrity" - meaning they don't negotiate (Love euphemisms.).
> 
> I'm sure there are other things I am missing.  If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions that we need to consider I would love to hear them.  If we do take the plunge directly from Starwood, we would wait until we are there again to take advantage of the incentives.  So, we have a little time.
> 
> TIA.



Hi Crasherino -

I own a BV 2BR loft annual floating platinum plus week. If you are limited to traveling on either Christmas or President's week I don't think a floating week would work for you. You would likely need to purchase a fixed week. I believe Starwood prices an annual fixed 2BR loft unit during Christmas or President's holiday week at around $99k - a substantial premium over the floating Platinum plus week. 

The usage goes by the calendar year so a Christmas 2013 week would be 2013 usage and relate to your 2013 maintenance fees and President's week in 2014 would be 2014 usage relating to your 2014 maintenance. 

I believe the maintenance fees are currently being subsidized by SW so that they are not an impediment to sales. Once the BV units are substantially sold - I expect they would likely become more comparable to the hillside units. 

Buying a BV platinum plus week - especially a holiday week - resale is very tough to find and if you really wanted the 2 BR loft unit - I think it would be virtually impossible to find. You'd probably be looking for many years - just my guess. These units are very pricey and I don't believe the price is negotiable with SW.  I was able to do an upgrade trading in an off-peak WMH unit I previously purchased from the developer plus a sizable cash payment. Best of luck!


----------



## Crasherino

DavidnRobin said:


> Hi -  I am not a WSJ-BV expert, so others will have to chime-in on the details.  We own a 2Bd/3Ba TH villa in the Hillside phase (VG) - as we like the ability to park outside our villa, and the semi-private pool/BBQ/patio area just a few steps away.  Plus, we rarely go to the main resort, and like being away from the action.
> 
> As you seem pretty familiar with the BV section and appear to be looking at the 2Bd BV Loft... I have not seen many of these (if any) on the resale market.  Also, you are looking for specific weeks that are not only Plat+, but also event weeks which come at a premium of a cost that is already very high. There are not many places to look other than RedWeek and Real Estate brokers on StJ.
> 
> If you buy from SVO/WSJ-BV you will get StarOptions, the ability to convert the SOs to StarPoints (not a good value, but does have convinence {sp?}factor), and likely additional SPs as incentives.  None of these make up for the high premium you will be paying for the Plat+ special weeks at BV (which is really high iirc).
> 
> Then there is always just renting the week/villa type you want - as it will take years to make up the difference (if you live that long...)
> 
> However, if this is what you want and can afford it - then your only recourse is to bite the bullet and buy from SVO/WSJ-VG as it will likely take some time to either find these villas resale at the times you want (which will not come with SOs or the ability to convert, or incentives), or for their prices to come down to make it worth it.
> 
> Also, WSJ-BV may be holding back selling all VOIs (TS weeks) for the BV phase until enough our sold from the original buildings.  I have no idea where they are yet with the sale of BV, but there were empty buildings last time I checked (2011).   Most likely - because of this - SVO is subsidizing WSJ-BV.
> 
> The future MFs for BV (once sold) is a major question/issue because it appears that once a resort is sold out the MFs appear to jump.  This makes sense because SVO/WSJ-VG want to make the appearance that the MFs are low in order to sell.  Once this is gone, then SVO moves on and has no incentive to keep MFs reduced (I have no concrete evidence about this other than history from other resorts).
> 
> I would PM jerseygirl about BV (not sure if she is reading TUG or this thread nowadays) - she knows a lot of what goes on at WSJ, and owns WSJ-BV.  She may be able to get you the financials (which are part of the MF report) - but be aware that these reports may not reflect the future financials (and thus MFs and potential refurbish costs).  Also, be aware of the property taxes which are always under attack for StJ.  Somehow, BV is not hit as hard as VG, but that could always change.
> 
> WSJ-VG got out of control finance wise, and Owners paid dearly for the HOA not keeping up reserves (at the cost of very low MFs - relatively) - those times have changed, but at least we have 2 WSJ-VG Owners on the HOA who are paying attention and looking our for our interests (this is my opinion - and not shared necessarily by those who were happy with the status quo, and the refurbish and maintenance issues that started this thread by me many years ago).
> 
> good luck.



David (and emu), thanks for your post and thoughts.  We go back and forth on whether we like the Hillside or the BV.  Having kids, we do use the main facilities in the afternoon, but we are usually somewhere on the NOrth Shore in the morning so having the Jeep right outside is a major convenience indeed.  And, as you point out, the bbq in bldgs 31-34 is a huge plus.  We toured the bay vistas and one of the big negatives was the bbq situation.  We were told that it was going to be upgraded, but who knows when that will happen. 

One other question....how are weeks calculated specifically?  For instance, week 1 starts when exactly?  If its a Sat - Sat unit, does week 1 start on the first Sat of the year?  And then, if the 1st is on a Sunday, a "week 1 - Sunday" unit starts almost a full week before the "Week 1 Sat" unit?  Do I have that right?  

Sorry for asking the basics - it can be a bit confusing.


----------



## LisaRex

Crasherino said:


> We were told that it was going to be upgraded, but who knows when that will happen.



They posted a picture of the new BV grilling stations this past Monday on their Facebook page.  They look really nice!  And because they are built in, presumably no wandering grills!

https://www.facebook.com/#!/WestinStJohn?fref=ts


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> They posted a picture of the new BV grilling stations this past Monday on their Facebook page.  They look really nice!  And because they are built in, presumably no wandering grills!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/#!/WestinStJohn?fref=ts



I also follow WSJ on FB and saw the new BBQs - you are right about them not 'wandering' off now (that still cracks me up, but unfortunately doesn't surprise me...).  There were comments that there were no tables around the BV BBQs, but that is an easy fix (but perhaps intended) - and they will have lighting.  Be careful to protect yourself from bugs when BBQing after dark - this seems where I get most of my bug bites from (not paying attention with a drink in one hand and spatula in the other).

It will be interesting to see the refurbished pool patios on the Hillside.  Last time (June'12) I found myself helping people light the BBQs (dangerous, and helped to be wet and stand back)


----------



## DavidnRobin

Crasherino said:


> One other question....how are weeks calculated specifically?  For instance, week 1 starts when exactly?  If its a Sat - Sat unit, does week 1 start on the first Sat of the year?  And then, if the 1st is on a Sunday, a "week 1 - Sunday" unit starts almost a full week before the "Week 1 Sat" unit?  Do I have that right?
> 
> Sorry for asking the basics - it can be a bit confusing.



btw, as far as BV goes - the 2Bd BV lofts are really nice - I prefer them to the 3Bd and 2Bd BV villas (IMO).

This subject has come up for Week 53 (when it occurs) - I know how it works for WKORV/N because weeks 51 (xmas) and 52 (nye) are sold as event weeks.  For years when there is a week 53, then the event weeks become week 52 (xmas) and week 53 (nye).

You bring up a good point about week 1.  I would imagine for years (most) with 52 weeks - then week 1 follows week 52, and for years with 53 weeks then week 1 follows week 52 (yes... obviously).  I would therefore imagine that this would also include the check-in day accordingly - as you wrote.  There is a TUG sticky that shows 'weeks' according to the calendar years based on check-in day.  I actually asked Robin to marry me based on our WSJ week at the time (wk 24) so we would be there on that day every year.
We now plan to celebrate with a meal cooked by Ted's Supper Club.

BUT - I would follow-up with the specific Owners Manual for WSJ-BV - to make sure there isn't some caveats.

btw - your kids will get older... so plan for that.
Also, if it were me (which it is not) and I was traveling with a party of more than 4 people - I would buy a 3Bd pool villa (resale) - but remember that WSJ-VG are all fixed weeks with fixed check-in days.

As top pros/cons between BV and VG (this has been previously discussed) - it really depends on how you plan to vacation now and in the future.

Villa style: pro for BV (if important - I like the BV style)
Villa layout: edge to BV... (depending)
Main resort access: pro for BV (as mentioned - this is not important to us)
Parking/getting away from resort: pro for VG (if one gets a car of course) - this is probably #1 for us
Pool/Patio/BBQ area: pro for VG (#2)
Partying w/ neighbors: pro for VG (if you like that sort of thing - we have had some fun times around the pool area at night)
View: pro for VG hillside buildings
Construction: pro for VG likely (from what I observed looking at the BV villas, and the buildings were once a hotel and converted to condos)
Ted's Supper Club: pro for VG 

anyone else?


----------



## jarta

Hi David!   ...   Most of these comments are in response to your comments in Post 1126.  Been traveling.  Couldn't respond earlier.

There is no evidence that Starwood is supporting the MFs at BV in excess of the amount Starwood pays for unsold and retained units.  In other words, paying the pro rata share for owned units is not supporting the MFs at the resort.  It's just fulfilling an obligation of an owner.  Starwood is the owner of unsold and retained units.

Starwood had paid a yearly amount of money to the VG HOA until a few years ago.  (Ran over $1M per year!  Mainly because the VG owners were so threatening and cantankarous toward Starwood, it decided to end the extra payment.)  That payment was in addition to Starwood paying MFs on unsold or reacquired VG weeks.  The last financial I saw, showed that Starwood owned about 10% of the VG units (IIRR).  Don't know how accurate that figure is now.  From looking at financial reports at other SVO resorts, Starwood seems to keep around 10% of the weeks, mostly primo ones I guess, for use in SPG.  At any time, it also has some inventory returned by foreclosures and deeds in lieu. 

The experience of every HOA association (not just TS associations) is that the MFs tend to increase over time.  That beginning of that increase usually overlaps with the developer selling out.  However, most of the increase comes from the increase in maintenance which comes after things start breaking or wearing out after 5, or so, years.  "New" doesn't need as much maintenance as "not new."  

The exception to this truth comes if the developer has not initially funded the replacement reserve as well as it should be funded.  Over time, the inadequate reserves must be increased to make up what ultimately must be spent as replacement capital improvements must be made.  That's what happened at VG.  Due to unexpected hurricane and storm damage (and, I assume, some underfunding of reserves to keep MFs low and VG owners happy), when it came time to repair and replace the interiors and exteriors at VG, there was no money.  So, the MFs were increased radically for 3 years - and didn't go all the way back down.

I take issue with the statement that VG is better constructed than BV.  VG was very poorly constructed (as was the rest of the resort) initially by the original developers (not Starwood).  When the BV phase of timeshares was created from some hotel outbuildings, those outbuildings were completely rebuilt and much more soundly rebuilt as BV.  The VG units have merely received facelifts as hurricanes, storms and age have taken their toll.  They are better-constructed now than when new.  But the economics of VG are such that it's mostly cosmetic.  VG has never been rebuilt virtually from the floor up.  IMO, over time, BV will hold up better than VG.   Salty


----------



## DavidnRobin

jarta said:


> Hi David!   ...   Most of these comments are in response to your comments in Post 1126.  Been traveling.  Couldn't respond earlier.
> 
> There is no evidence that Starwood is supporting the MFs at BV in excess of the amount Starwood pays for unsold and retained units.  In other words, paying the pro rata share for owned units is not supporting the MFs at the resort.  It's just fulfilling an obligation of an owner.  Starwood is the owner of unsold and retained units.
> 
> Starwood had paid a yearly amount of money to the VG HOA until a few years ago.  (Ran over $1M per year!  Mainly because the VG owners were so threatening and cantankarous toward Starwood, it decided to end the extra payment.)  That payment was in addition to Starwood paying MFs on unsold or reacquired VG weeks.  The last financial I saw, showed that Starwood owned about 10% of the VG units (IIRR).  Don't know how accurate that figure is now.  From looking at financial reports at other SVO resorts, Starwood seems to keep around 10% of the weeks, mostly primo ones I guess, for use in SPG.  At any time, it also has some inventory returned by foreclosures and deeds in lieu.
> 
> The experience of every HOA association (not just TS associations) is that the MFs tend to increase over time.  That beginning of that increase usually overlaps with the developer selling out.  However, most of the increase comes from the increase in maintenance which comes after things start breaking or wearing out after 5, or so, years.  "New" doesn't need as much maintenance as "not new."
> 
> The exception to this truth comes if the developer has not initially funded the replacement reserve as well as it should be funded.  Over time, the inadequate reserves must be increased to make up what ultimately must be spent as replacement capital improvements must be made.  That's what happened at VG.  Due to unexpected hurricane and storm damage (and, I assume, some underfunding of reserves to keep MFs low and VG owners happy), when it came time to repair and replace the interiors and exteriors at VG, there was no money.  So, the MFs were increased radically for 3 years - and didn't go all the way back down.
> 
> I take issue with the statement that VG is better constructed than BV.  VG was very poorly constructed (as was the rest of the resort) initially by the original developers (not Starwood).  When the BV phase of timeshares was created from some hotel outbuildings, those outbuildings were completely rebuilt and much more soundly rebuilt as BV.  The VG units have merely received facelifts as hurricanes, storms and age have taken their toll.  They are better-constructed now than when new.  But the economics of VG are such that it's mostly cosmetic.  VG has never been rebuilt virtually from the floor up.  IMO, over time, BV will hold up better than VG.   Salty



In no particular order... (I suggest you reread what I wrote - because I did and do not follow/understand some of your comments)

You have zero proof that SVO removed the subsidy for WSJ-VG because of "cantankarous" owners - that is pure speculation - so please do not state as fact. I was merely mentioned that they did subsidize and it stopped (fact) - besides we have been down this road before - the subsidy wasn't that much relative to the overall MFs.

As to SVO subsidy of WSJ-BV... have you seen a financial statement for BV? (I have not - so I told the person who asked to contact jgirl - did you miss that?)  Of course SVO is responsible for unsold villas - and I did not ever say I was sure they were being subsidized beyond their obligation to unsold inventory (it was asked and I answered appropriately).  Again, I try to be careful how I word things - I merely mentioned that it has been done before (and stopped), and to check the balance sheet to make sure to the person that asked the questions. How do you interpret what I wrote otherwise (again...)?

I don't disagree that the financials for WSJ-VG was poor for many years and it finally caught up (I stated this...) - is this what you are saying? I am unclear of the value added for your point.  This thread documents all of the dealings prior, during, and after the HOA changeover - including the refurbish and the "cantankarous" owners.  The subsidy ended before the Owner lawsuit.  Also, we were successful in getting SVO to allow a vote that got Phil and Bob aboard.  No other SVO resort has accomplished this (and I will take partial credit and blame - as Phil reminds me).

Re: construction - I have seen both (and heard and looked) - and I disagree with you on this - the walls and foundations 'appear' (from my limited view) to be superior for the hillside buildings (e.g. the walls between villas are solid) - now that the siding and roofs have been redone (thankfully) for the VG phase - this also seems to be a wash.  I hadn't realized you have been to both BV and VG phases (or were familiar with construction).  I actually got to see inside the walls (and attic area) of VG, and the construction of BV buildings.  I may be a lowly Scientist, but I have owned and worked on enough homes to be able to make an opinion that VG seems more solid.  And it is a fact that BV is converted from a hotel room (meaning the infrastructure of the building was changed from a hotel design and not originally built that way).

Not sure why you "take issue" with what I wrote - you do not even own at WSJ (unless that changed?) and iirc - only visited once.  Why do you feel the need to state it that way? - like you have a vested interest when you actually do not.  I do have a vested interest and my own bias' (which I try and make clear) since we use our 2 weeks that we own every year (except last) starting in 2006 - and StJ is one of my favorite places to vacation (I should work for their tourist board... )

As always - I will respond if someone asks a question - but I certainly make it clear that anything I write is MY OPINION - or it is indeed fact.  btw - I called almost to the dollar what the new MFs going forward would be - yet, no one else chimed in...

I do appreciate your opinion and view - but the way you state things has a lot to be desired (not the 1st time I have attempted to remind you of that - especially with your experience level in life...)

and please - I do not want to go back and forth battling over small nuances with you. (and will not...) I try and write quickly, but make no claims on being perfect.  I believe I have made my thoughts and opinions very clear on this thread (and others) - and intend nothing more than to be helpful to those owning or planning on buying WSJ, or planning on visiting StJ.

I hope your travels have been well - and say hello to your (much) better half - and I will do the same.  We only took a week of vacation in 2012 - and look forward to 2 weeks WSJ and 2 weeks at WKORV/WPORV this year (more than ever).


----------



## Crasherino

DavidnRobin said:


> btw, as far as BV goes - the 2Bd BV lofts are really nice - I prefer them to the 3Bd and 2Bd BV villas (IMO).
> 
> This subject has come up for Week 53 (when it occurs) - I know how it works for WKORV/N because weeks 51 (xmas) and 52 (nye) are sold as event weeks.  For years when there is a week 53, then the event weeks become week 52 (xmas) and week 53 (nye).
> 
> You bring up a good point about week 1.  I would imagine for years (most) with 52 weeks - then week 1 follows week 52, and for years with 53 weeks then week 1 follows week 52 (yes... obviously).  I would therefore imagine that this would also include the check-in day accordingly - as you wrote.  There is a TUG sticky that shows 'weeks' according to the calendar years based on check-in day.  I actually asked Robin to marry me based on our WSJ week at the time (wk 24) so we would be there on that day every year.
> We now plan to celebrate with a meal cooked by Ted's Supper Club.
> 
> BUT - I would follow-up with the specific Owners Manual for WSJ-BV - to make sure there isn't some caveats.
> 
> btw - your kids will get older... so plan for that.
> Also, if it were me (which it is not) and I was traveling with a party of more than 4 people - I would buy a 3Bd pool villa (resale) - but remember that WSJ-VG are all fixed weeks with fixed check-in days.
> 
> As top pros/cons between BV and VG (this has been previously discussed) - it really depends on how you plan to vacation now and in the future.
> 
> Villa style: pro for BV (if important - I like the BV style)
> Villa layout: edge to BV... (depending)
> Main resort access: pro for BV (as mentioned - this is not important to us)
> Parking/getting away from resort: pro for VG (if one gets a car of course) - this is probably #1 for us
> Pool/Patio/BBQ area: pro for VG (#2)
> Partying w/ neighbors: pro for VG (if you like that sort of thing - we have had some fun times around the pool area at night)
> View: pro for VG hillside buildings
> Construction: pro for VG likely (from what I observed looking at the BV villas, and the buildings were once a hotel and converted to condos)
> Ted's Supper Club: pro for VG
> 
> anyone else?



Great list, David - tks.  Our last stay at WSJ was on the Hillside and the comraderie around the pool bbq is very attractive.  We often bring citronella candles and eat outside.  Also, I'm fairly confident that rum acts as a natural bug repellent - only after consuming heavy quantities of course.  

And the point about kids getting older (while seemingly obvious) is also a good one.  I'm not sure I want to lock myself in to a 3 bdrm Pool villa during Prez Week.  In 15 years, I will have no desire to fight the masses for a spot at Cinnamon if I could go a week later and have half the people around.  I could, of course, always rent the week out and simply purchase on the secondary market, but that's a step I'd hope to avoid if at all possible.  

The floating week definitely seems like the way to go for me at this point.


----------



## jarta

"Not sure why you "take issue" with what I wrote - you do not even own at WSJ (unless that changed?) and iirc - only visited once."

I take issue (rarely) with what you write about St. John because what you write about WSJ and the VG section can be unbalanced.

You are entitled to be head over heels in love with WSJ.  It is a good timeshare resort.  If I were in the market for another Starwood timeshare (which I am not), I would still consider a 3-br pool villa in Building 43 or 44 of the VG phase of WSJ or the large 2-br villa that can sleep 10 in the BV phase of WSJ.  But, I'm not.  Plus I can trade into a 3-br pool villa any year I want to go to St. John.  That's how I have visited  WSJ 2 of the last 4 years.

You don't have to be an owner to experience WSJ or have an opinion about your stays there.  And, WSJ is not a place to buy sight-unseen.  I had the hots to buy at WSJ until I visited there.  I no longer have the hots, but would visit again.  The natural beauty is very appealing.  

I find St. John exceedingly beautiful with great water activities and WSJ very relaxing.  However, St. John is a hard and expensive place to get to, relatively expensive to stay at once you are there, no golf, the supermarkets are dirty, has laughable storefront imitation casinos, a rental car is a necessity and I find the St. John natives sometimes to be even more resentful of tourists than the notorious Hawaiian natives.

At WSJ, the pool is nice but the beach is pretty sad and the water is very calm, but slimy from all the boat traffic into the cove.  Internet is spotty (at best). Cell phone reception is zero bars most of the day - unless you walk down to the beach (closest point to St. Thomas).  Sand fleas infest the WSJ villas and the proof is obvious from the bites on the legs of most of the guests and the constant transport of matresses on the golf cart vehicles.

The North Shore beaches are wonderful.  The park areas are still quite primitive (I consider that good).  Driving the island can be quite a fun adventure (again in a good way).  The day sails to Tortola and Jost are terrific.  The restaurants in Cruz Bay are spotty.  Most are average or below (and expensive).  There are restaurants that serve outstanding food.  They are not at WSJ.  They, too, are expensive.  The shops in Cruz Bay are mainly T-shirt and costume jewelry places.

As for the level of construction at WSJ VG, we can agree to disagree.  But, it has never before held up well to hurricanes or storms.  When Hurricane Marilyn hit in 1995 the entire resort was closed for about 2 years due to damage.

I find St. John and WSJ a mixed blessing - very good mixed with ordinary - or worse.  Despite the great natural beauty, not for everyone and not for every year.  However, if it gives you peace of mind, go for it!   Salty


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## DavidnRobin

Beach break - Francis Bay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5TJSYYE_qKg#!

Crash - we go in June as to avoid the crowds and north-shore waters are calming than winter. We do not travel during peaks.

Salty - I still do not understand your responses.  I have made it crystal clear on why we prefer VG, while others may prefer BV - and of course StJ is not for everyone (also repeated by me many times...). Not unexpected that your WSJ/StJ experiences are different than ours... if you want golf and casinos (btw, there is one small casino called the Parrot Club... that I believe only has slots - but is pretty clean - and empty - from our walks passed while at the Beach Bar). Also, clearly you do not know where to shop on StJ - or what to shop for - but we don't go for shopping, golf, or the restaurants (although - most of our restaurants visits are excellent - but what do we know about good food? lol)

Villas (mattresses) infested with 'sand fleas'?  You should look up the life cycle of a sand flea (as you call them) - of course, such a bug does not exist (try gnats... or noseeums) - what you state is not based on fact (typical) - this type of BS from you really sets me off - probably because I work in a profession that depends on facts (and science) - where yours is a little more subjective in interpretation and use of facts.

I am very sensitive to noseeums (and not so much to mosquitoes like Robin) - but their bites come being on the beach and not in the villas (where their life-cycle cannot be maintained) - this is why their bites are found below the knees unless foolish enough to lay down on the sand unprotected during sunset (when they come out).  Also, nosseum bites take about a day to manifest (and hurt/itch like hell).  Uninformed people (or people who choose to be uninformed) often make this mistake when traveling to places with noseeums - they are not unique to stJ.


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## jarta

David,   ...   I think you understand my posts. You do not wish for any opinion that differs from yours to be posted here because you consider this thread your own personal possession. As I said St. John and WSJ are a mixed blessing and one I will partake in again - because of the natural beauty of the island.  Located anywhere else WSJ would be considered mediocre. Location, location, location!  Salty


----------



## DavidnRobin

jarta said:


> David,   ...   I think you understand my posts. You do not wish for any opinion that differs from yours to be posted here because you consider this thread your own personal possession. As I said St. John and WSJ are a mixed blessing and one I will partake in again - because of the natural beauty of the island.  Located anywhere else WSJ would be considered mediocre. Location, location, location!  Salty



Yeah - right... you have me pegged... :hysterical:

how's this...

HEY EVERYONE!
If you are looking for golf, a Four Seasons type of resort, no bugs, no heat, no humidity, great casinos, great shopping, skiing, night-life, a cheap vacation, easy access, etc - WSJ/StJ may not be for you.

dude, you may want to switch up on your meds...

I am always happy when people post to this thread (except for you of course... ) - and try to be as helpful as I can (and give MY opinion) - and I think most normal people would agree.  I understand why people do not like WSJ, or prefer BV over VG.  I am just not sure how you manage to interpret my intent or posts differently.  Add in the attacking manner you seem to enjoy (along with twisting what is said to your perception and strange approach to responding) - and it just becomes annoying...


----------



## YYJMSP

I swear, reading your back-and-forths is better than watching some bad sit-com -- you two bicker like an unhappily married couple :hysterical:


----------



## DavidnRobin

YYJMSP said:


> I swear, reading your back-and-forths is better than watching some bad sit-com -- you two bicker like an unhappily married couple :hysterical:



Glad it amuses you. I was just responding to Crash who asked a few questions - I certainly did not need (or warrant) an attack from the sidelines.  However, I will not back down when BS is thrown my way - especially when I have dealt with the twist of words before - and outright misrepresentation.  jarta must have a record amount of Tuggers that have him on 'ignore' (or maybe e.bram), and now I do as well (again).

Of course I realize you Canadians are much more polite...


----------



## DavidnRobin

[NaCl's spirit may be dying, but mine won't be estinguished so easily...]

So, in that vein....
Take a ride up the last stretch of the North Shore road and meet up at Centerline road for a cold drink at Colombo's smoothie stand....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P-V5Crql9aw

I like to put these on full-screen with my face close and pretend I am there... 
June Soon Come.


----------



## YYJMSP

DavidnRobin said:


> [NaCl's spirit may be dying, but mine won't be estinguished so easily...]



Oooo, that reference took me a few seconds to figure out, good one...


----------



## amundson

LisaRex said:


> Since we were heading to St. Thomas for a fishing charter...



How was the fishing charter you used on St. Thomas?  Do you recommend it?

I like to fish at least once on my vacations.  This year I was thinking about just doing some inshore, flats-type fishing on St. John.

Thanks to everyone who contributes to this thread.  I find it very helpful.


----------



## YDREDSOX

*Get Westin ST John Attn*



DavidnRobin said:


> Below is the list of members for the St. John Board of Directors:
> 
> Mr. Thorp Thomas (President, Treasurer)
> Mr. Reginald D. Billups (Vice President)
> Ms. Paulette Carter (Secretary)
> Mr. Walter DeCastro
> Ms. Melissa Brookes
> 
> Contact Address:
> 9002 San Marco Court
> Orlando, FL 32819
> 
> You may send an e-mail to associationmgmt@starwoodvo.com
> Please make sure that your e-mail is to the attention of the Board of Directors.  Once we receive the e-mail, it will be forwarded and brought to the attention of the board members.




If you want to get the Exec Mgmt attention, look up the BOD of the overall Starwood company, and then email them at their company with your issues.  As part of your email, I would suggest you let them know that you're read to go viral i.e, You Tube, Twitter, Facebook with your concerns and with pictures to support the concerns.  Believe me, they don't want VIRAL to SPIRAL


----------



## DavidnRobin

YDREDSOX said:


> If you want to get the Exec Mgmt attention, look up the BOD of the overall Starwood company, and then email them at their company with your issues.  As part of your email, I would suggest you let them know that you're read to go viral i.e, You Tube, Twitter, Facebook with your concerns and with pictures to support the concerns.  Believe me, they don't want VIRAL to SPIRAL



Note: This is a response to very old post (2008?)...  YD - you should peruse the thread - much has happened since this thread was started way back when...

and welcome to TUG


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## LisaRex

amundson said:


> How was the fishing charter you used on St. Thomas?  Do you recommend it?



We loved our fishing charter.  It was basically a fisherman and his boat.  No frills to speak of, not even a bimini top. But he was the best fisherman I've ever met.  He had 4 lines trolling at the same time.  We caught tons of fish!  He also taught 3 of us to spear fish and catch lobster, though neither of those ventures were very successful.  The best part was eating our freshly caught fish on our own private beach.  (Captain Rick wrapped them in leaves and grilled them.)

Swashbucklin' Tours out of St. Thomas.  We did the whole day trip.  He was very reasonable.  I think his boat only holds 6, but 4 was plenty crowded. 

http://www.swashbucklintours.com/fishing.php#.USZ6wvJliSo


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> We loved our fishing charter.  It was basically a fisherman and his boat.  No frills to speak of, not even a bimini top. But he was the best fisherman I've ever met.  He had 4 lines trolling at the same time.  We caught tons of fish!  He also taught 3 of us to spear fish and catch lobster, though neither of those ventures were very successful.  The best part was eating our freshly caught fish on our own private beach.  (Captain Rick wrapped them in leaves and grilled them.)
> 
> Swashbucklin' Tours out of St. Thomas.  We did the whole day trip.  He was very reasonable.  I think his boat only holds 6, but 4 was plenty crowded.
> 
> http://www.swashbucklintours.com/fishing.php#.USZ6wvJliSo



Excellent info - sounds way fun (in calm seas).  No bimini?  Yikes! bring plenty of sun protection.


----------



## ValleyGirl

*Day trips to Jost and Tortola*



			
				jarta;1424456....The day sails to Tortola and Jost are terrific.  Salty[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> We have a 3BR @ St John for May 19-26. :whoopie:
> 
> I know this may seem like an overly simple question - but!
> One does not need a passport to visit USVI but you do for BVI.  I had heard that travelling, sailing, or going ashore was a hassle and expensive if you travelled either direction between USVI & BVI.
> 
> We love to sail and experience the ambience at Jost (Soggy Dollar and Foxy's).
> 
> We are experienced enough that a 41' mono-hull with a captain would be a great day adventure for a party of 6.  Any ideas of what a "Boat and captain" would run?
> 
> What has your or anyone else's experience been?  Do you stay long at Jost?
> 
> 
> We are at Princeville as I write this. Its raining - oops it stopped - oops its raining again - but still a fantastic vacation with dinner at CJ's last night!
> Here's to great SVO vacation experiences!


----------



## DavidnRobin

ValleyGirl said:


> We have a 3BR @ St John for May 19-26. :whoopie:
> 
> I know this may seem like an overly simple question - but!
> One does not need a passport to visit USVI but you do for BVI.  I had heard that travelling, sailing, or going ashore was a hassle and expensive if you travelled either direction between USVI & BVI.
> 
> We love to sail and experience the ambience at Jost (Soggy Dollar and Foxy's).
> 
> We are experienced enough that a 41' mono-hull with a captain would be a great day adventure for a party of 6.  Any ideas of what a "Boat and captain" would run?
> 
> What has your or anyone else's experience been?  Do you stay long at Jost?
> 
> 
> We are at Princeville as I write this. Its raining - oops it stopped - oops its raining again - but still a fantastic vacation with dinner at CJ's last night!
> Here's to great SVO vacation experiences!



You will need passport - it is a bit of a hassle, but the Captain will do the work (either at Sopers Hole or on JVD) - I have found Sopers Hole easier since you can pull up directly) - it is about $20pp.  If you want to go to Foxys - you might as well do it on JVD. But White Bay is where we like to be...

Can't help with a sailing charter - but there is a lot on-line.


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## DavidnRobin

*StJ 8-Tuff Mile Race - Google Earth*

{bump}
A narrated tour of the 8 Tuff Miles road race held in St. John US Virgin Islands. Tour was created in Google Earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu5USyUjhWA&feature=youtu.be

{interesting perspective - must be tough with the heat/humidity and climb - hard enough to just walk a mile}


----------



## Crasherino

DavidnRobin said:


> Glad it amuses you. *I was just responding to Crash who asked a few questions - *I certainly did not need (or warrant) an attack from the sidelines.  However, I will not back down when BS is thrown my way - especially when I have dealt with the twist of words before - and outright misrepresentation.  jarta must have a record amount of Tuggers that have him on 'ignore' (or maybe e.bram), and now I do as well (again).
> 
> Of course I realize you Canadians are much more polite...



And I greatly appreciate it - thank you kindly.  

And as an aside, I just got back from PDC staying at the Esmeralda and while beautiful, only made me think how STJ is far and away superior in all aspects.  

You can make a long list of shortcomings of the place but, like many other things, it pretty much falls into the category of "If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand."  

Kinda like the Grateful Dead.


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## DavidnRobin

Always glad to help - on that note...
Listening to a JGB show (Mar19, 1980 Stanley Theater, Pittsburgh PA) as I write this... 
{and caught ALO at the The Fillmore-SF last Saturday}

Old and In The Way...


----------



## Cornhusker

Well I'm wearing out google to keep up with you guys.  PDC, JGB, ALO.   Once Google gives me some results at least I am very familiar the Jerry Garcia Band and Playa Del Carmen.  Never really listened to ALO but have heard of them.  What's up with their original name David??  Were they big into animal rights or is that just a name, like Don Henley and Glenn Frey were not actually large birds of prey or members of a Benevolent and Protective Order? 

Anyway for my trip to WSJ later this year I think I am going to bite the bullet (wallet) and book the Westin ferry.  My flight arrives a bit after 6 PM into STT so I know I will be tired and HUNGRY.  An hour cab to Redhook plus waiting for the next ferry plus getting a cab at Cruz Bay late in the evening (all in the dark) sounds like a bit much for my virgin visit (no pun intended).  I am thinking that getting to WSJ faster and having the folks at the Westin airport desk taking care of me is a good idea the first time around.  I think I will wait for day 2 to get adventurous.  BTW, love the info ITT (acronyms intended).


----------



## DavidnRobin

Cornhusker said:


> Well I'm wearing out google to keep up with you guys.  PDC, JGB, ALO.   Once Google gives me some results at least I am very familiar the Jerry Garcia Band and Playa Del Carmen.  Never really listened to ALO but have heard of them.  What's up with their original name David??  Were they big into animal rights or is that just a name, like Don Henley and Glenn Frey were not actually large birds of prey or members of a Benevolent and Protective Order?
> 
> Anyway for my trip to WSJ later this year I think I am going to bite the bullet (wallet) and book the Westin ferry.  My flight arrives a bit after 6 PM into STT so I know I will be tired and HUNGRY.  An hour cab to Redhook plus waiting for the next ferry plus getting a cab at Cruz Bay late in the evening (all in the dark) sounds like a bit much for my virgin visit (no pun intended).  I am thinking that getting to WSJ faster and having the folks at the Westin airport desk taking care of me is a good idea the first time around.  I think I will wait for day 2 to get adventurous.  BTW, love the info ITT (acronyms intended).



just a name... Orchestra to Liberate the Animal in all of us... (and not associated w/ PETA)

If you arrive after 6pm - you will be going to NPS dock close to RedHook to get the Westin Ferry as the Westin Ferry does not leave from Crown Bay at this time.{iirc - refer to Westin Ferry schedule to confirm}  I did this one time to get back to WSJ when AA denied us boarding at STT due to being late (in one of my trip reports).

That said - it is nice for Westin folks at airport to take care of luggage and arrange Taxi (esp for 1st visit) to their ferry.  You need to decide whether just taking the public taxi/ferry/taxi to WSJ is worth it compared to the cost of the Westin ferry as the time involved would probably be close to the same.  However, big difference in effort (although not that hard to take public taxi/ferry/taxi).  Keep in mind that public transportation charges for all large luggage (per piece) and at least the Westin Taxi/Ferry will not.  Also, USVI ferry cost is about to go up (tbd).


----------



## Cornhusker

Thanks David for satisfying my curiosity about ALO.  I like their sound so I might pick up some of their stuff.  I bet they are great live!  BTW I had that Eagles reference wrong.  They are the FOE (Fraternal Order).  The BPOE are the Elks.  Glad my father-in-law did not see that.

I believe you are correct on the later ferry times not leaving from Crown Bay based on some earlier posts ITT.  If anything the extra cost will be worth it upon arrival at WSJ (rather than Cruz Bay) and mostly for the return trip to STT, as well as the fact it is taken care of and it is one less thing I have to orchestrate.  Affording it is not that big of a deal and I am sure WSJ is banking on that and my piece of mind.  After our recent nightmare airline saga to WLR in January a few extra bucks is worth it.  On future trips hopefully I can find better connections that get us into STT earlier.  Price was right on the air fare though.  Heck of a lot cheaper than Hawaii from the midwest.


----------



## LisaRex

Cornhusker said:


> If anything the extra cost will be worth it upon arrival at WSJ (rather than Cruz Bay) and mostly for the return trip to STT, as well as the fact it is taken care of and it is one less thing I have to orchestrate.  Affording it is not that big of a deal and I am sure WSJ is banking on that and my piece of mind.



I know they want a hunk of your wallet, but it's outrageous that they want a piece of your mind too.  

I think you'll love St. John.  It really is a special place.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Cornhusker said:


> Thanks David for satisfying my curiosity about ALO.  I like their sound so I might pick up some of their stuff.  I bet they are great live!  BTW I had that Eagles reference wrong.  They are the FOE (Fraternal Order).  The BPOE are the Elks.  Glad my father-in-law did not see that.
> 
> I believe you are correct on the later ferry times not leaving from Crown Bay based on some earlier posts ITT.  If anything the extra cost will be worth it upon arrival at WSJ (rather than Cruz Bay) and mostly for the return trip to STT, as well as the fact it is taken care of and it is one less thing I have to orchestrate.  Affording it is not that big of a deal and I am sure WSJ is banking on that and my piece of mind.  After our recent nightmare airline saga to WLR in January a few extra bucks is worth it.  On future trips hopefully I can find better connections that get us into STT earlier.  Price was right on the air fare though.  Heck of a lot cheaper than Hawaii from the midwest.



Much like GD and JGB (and Phish) - ALO is best live (I only listen to live concerts of these bands - actually, for most bands). Check out archives.org for free (legal) music.  Also, there is a very good weekly Podcast for the GD called The DeadPod - essentially a set per week from various shows.  To keep this on track for WSJ/StJ - check out The Beach Bar for music.  We saw a good JamBand there a couple of years ago.  Also, Inner Visions (local Reggae band) plays at The High Tide quite often recently.

WSJ will take care of everything upon arrival - so if cost is not an issue, then good way to go. Plus, getting hit by the heat/humidity upon arrival - you may like going easy.  btw, Cruz Bay is only about 7 mins from WSJ.


----------



## Cornhusker

LisaRex said:


> it's outrageous that they want a piece of your mind too.



If they run that sucker into a reef again while I am on it they WILL get a piece of my mind!!!   I am really looking forward to St John and will have a hard time waiting.  I have always wanted to explore the Caribbean.  My wife has always been set on Hawaii.  So I guess to comprimise we always took our family trips to Colorado skiing.  Makes sense, huh?  At least the slopes are an easy drive from here.

I'd love to eventually get an EOY ski week at WRMV or SSR.  They are on my future visit list but am not hopeful I will ever get a ski week on SO's.  Getting into WSJ was hard enough!!!  Maybe I'll just stick to the beaches from here on out.

Kyle


----------



## DavidnRobin

Cornhusker said:


> If they run that sucker into a reef again while I am on it they WILL get a piece of my mind!!!   I am really looking forward to St John and will have a hard time waiting.  I have always wanted to explore the Caribbean.  My wife has always been set on Hawaii.  So I guess to comprimise we always took our family trips to Colorado skiing.  Makes sense, huh?  At least the slopes are an easy drive from here.
> 
> I'd love to eventually get an EOY ski week at WRMV or SSR.  They are on my future visit list but am not hopeful I will ever get a ski week on SO's.  Getting into WSJ was hard enough!!!  Maybe I'll just stick to the beaches from here on out.
> 
> Kyle



It wasn't the Westin ferry that hit the reef - the Westin ferry is a smaller boat than the USVI ferries.
Make sure your wife knows what to expect (mainly heat, humid, bugs) - as StJ is very different than HI. One of the guests that rented our villa last year took about 4 days to acclimate - luckily they were there for 14 days.  Also, the Caribbean is much more of a 3rd-World experience and not for everyone.


----------



## Cornhusker

DavidnRobin said:


> It wasn't the Westin ferry that hit the reef - the Westin ferry is a smaller boat than the USVI ferries.
> Make sure your wife knows what to expect (mainly heat, humid, bugs) - as StJ is very different than HI. One of the guests that rented our villa last year took about 4 days to acclimate - luckily they were there for 14 days.  Also, the Caribbean is much more of a 3rd-World experience and not for everyone.



You are probably right.  I read it somewhere in the middle of this topic and it was originally posted that it was the Westin Breeze but that may have been incorrect.  As I recall it was early AM and had mainly WSJ employees on board.  No biggie, just an attempt at some weak humor by me.

I expect the H&H and the 3rd world feel.  We both exercise and stay reasonably fit and are acquainted with dealing with bugs.  We are also both from rural areas so prefer that feel.  Probably why we liked Kauai much better than Kaanapali.  I'd hike a long way to find a beach with no one else on it.  My only caveat is that I can hike back in time to catch happy hour!!!   BTW, thanks for the live music suggestions.  I am booked in early Sept so I hope there is something still going on although I have heard the island slows down quite a bit then.


----------



## Crasherino

steve1000 said:


> Hi Crasherino -
> 
> I own a BV 2BR loft annual floating platinum plus week. If you are limited to traveling on either Christmas or President's week I don't think a floating week would work for you. You would likely need to purchase a fixed week. I believe Starwood prices an annual fixed 2BR loft unit during Christmas or President's holiday week at around $99k - a substantial premium over the floating Platinum plus week.
> 
> The usage goes by the calendar year so a Christmas 2013 week would be 2013 usage and relate to your 2013 maintenance fees and President's week in 2014 would be 2014 usage relating to your 2014 maintenance.
> 
> I believe the maintenance fees are currently being subsidized by SW so that they are not an impediment to sales. Once the BV units are substantially sold - I expect they would likely become more comparable to the hillside units.
> 
> Buying a BV platinum plus week - especially a holiday week - resale is very tough to find and if you really wanted the 2 BR loft unit - I think it would be virtually impossible to find. You'd probably be looking for many years - just my guess. These units are very pricey and I don't believe the price is negotiable with SW.  I was able to do an upgrade trading in an off-peak WMH unit I previously purchased from the developer plus a sizable cash payment. Best of luck!



Steve- I must have missed this pos the first time around but very helpful - thanks.  

Have you tried to book a holiday week with you floating week?  If so what was your experience?  I suspect you have to do it 52 weeks to the day - which is fine - but if its a crapshoot even then, I won't be too happy.  

Not set on a 2bdrm loft only, but I was certainly most impressed by those.  Seem to have more room than even the 3bdrms.  And the cost from a 2bdrm to a loft to a 3bdrm doesn't change to greatly.


----------



## steve1000

Hi Crasherino - Sorry I can't give you any helpful information. We just bought our 2BR loft unit last year and have not tried booking a holiday week. So I can't provide any insight into the level of difficulty of securing it for Christmas, President's week, etc. However, I suspect you'd need to call immediately at the opening bell on the first eligible booking date and even then I suspect it would be a "toss of the dice". Keep in mind there are only 8 2BR loft units and it is likely that 4 of them would be committed to fixed holiday week owners. Given that these weeks would be extremely valuable to people trying to rent their units - there would likely be a large percentage of owners competing to secure the holiday weeks. If I could only travel during holiday weeks (which is not the case for us) I think it would be too risky to purchase a floating week.


----------



## Crasherino

Question on a specific unit at VG....I've seen an ad for unit 3112 that is described as a "premiere condo" and an "end unit".  Also, the square footage is listed at 1,000 - which seems to be smaller than usual. 

Is this just a function advertising variance or is 3112 a bit different than your standard 2 bdrm unit?


----------



## DavidnRobin

Crasherino said:


> Question on a specific unit at VG....I've seen an ad for unit 3112 that is described as a "premiere condo" and an "end unit".  Also, the square footage is listed at 1,000 - which seems to be smaller than usual.
> 
> Is this just a function advertising variance or is 3112 a bit different than your standard 2 bdrm unit?



These may be the single level 2Bd villas (called Premium) - I would stay away - the MFs are the same as the 3Bd pool villas - makes no sense.  The layout is on-line.


----------



## JCubed

DavidnRobin said:


> These may be the single level 2Bd villas (called Premium) - I would stay away - the MFs are the same as the 3Bd pool villas - makes no sense.  The layout is on-line.



This is actually something I've been curious about - does anyone have any insight into why the VG 2BR "premier" - which is 200 square feet _*smaller*_ than the standard VG 2BR - has such a higher MF?  What happened there?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*2011 Property Tax - WSJ-VG Vote*

Heads-up...

*****
The 2011 Property Tax bills are going to be sent soon.  iirc, property taxes are still at the 1999 rate. {for reference - we pay about $133 for each of our 2Bd TH weeks in June}
Property taxes up to 2010 should already be paid.  With 2011 paid, that will just leave 2012 left to catch-up on back taxes.

*****
Also - the on-line proxies (via email) for upcoming WSJ-VG HOA vote have been sent out.
Make sure you vote - even if it is just for the purpose of a quorum (bottom of form).  No surprise... my votes are going to Bob/Phil, but do your own diligence.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Rumor time... (Starwood buying Pond Bay)*



emuyshondt said:


> I tried to find more information about Pond Bay Club, but the latest post I found was on Trip Advisor, mentioning mid last May that the May 2 auction was withdrawn a couple of days before it was scheduled.
> 
> I'll see if I can find out more about the area when I am there in April. The area is pretty much adjacent to WSJ.



How about this for a rumor?
Starwood buying Pond Bay and turning into a W hotel (from TripAdvisor)

http://barnako.typepad.com/news_of_st_john_usvi/2013/03/rumor-of-a-new-st-john-hotel.html

This would be good for people trying to use SPs for StJ.  Not so good for WSJ-VG/BV owners who rent out their TSs (more competition...).  This sort of makes sense if the rumors are true that WSJ plans to turn the rest of their hotel umits into WSJ-BV VOIs.

Please note - I used the word 'rumor' multiple times...


----------



## polly0014

What is the consensus on a rental car agency on STT?  We are looking at all our options...thinking now we might rent the car IN St. Thomas and ferry over to St. John.  Thank you!


edit...I apologize, I found the answer--Amalie Car Rental.  Thanks!


----------



## DavidnRobin

polly0014 said:


> What is the consensus on a rental car agency on STT?  We are looking at all our options...thinking now we might rent the car IN St. Thomas and ferry over to St. John.  Thank you!



Hi Polly - This is what I do (as often mentioned) and I highly recommend this as well.  It is not hard at all, but may seem daunting at first.  Although, it may not be the consensus - but we have now taken every method.  The WSJ ferry is great, but just too expensive nowadays.

As we prefer our 4WD brand new (after some bad cars), and easy transfer process - we use Amalie Car Rentals (great people, and great cars).  They meet us at STT with car and paperwork ready to go - and same with dropoff.  The only downside is they do not take AMEX, and their vehicles are more expensive to rent (but believe me... worth it after 2 bad experiences with other rental agencies - unsafe cars).  If you use them - tell them David from Genentech referred you (they may waive the pick-up/drop-off fee?).  Do not wait to reserve - as there are limited vehicles.  The car barge is inexpensive - buy only 1-way tix.  It takes about 45mins (?) to get to the car barge in RedHook.  There are signs that lead you to RedHook, but I will post directions as a follow-up (I keep them on my iPhone, but know them by heart now...).

Here is what I have on my iPhone... (with stops for shopping along the way - we do not stop anymore)
"Turn right out of the airport and continue along the waterfront through several lights until the very end where you take a left at the light. The WICO cruise ship and Havensight Mall and Yacht Haven Grande will be on your right. A Pueblo Supermarket will be kitty-corner across the street and you'll pass by (on the left) a small KMart and MacDonalds, etc. Stay in the right lane at the next light and go right onto Rte 38. You'll go up Raphune Hill which segues into Weymouth Rhymer Highway, A couple of miles down the road you'll come to a traffic light and a big sign on the left for Market Square East. Turn in there and you'll see CostULess right there.

When you come out of CostULess, turn left and continue on Rte 38. If you need to stop for anything else go into the Tutu Park Mall which will be on your left and where you'll find the big KMart and the supermarket Plaza Extra. Continue on Rte 38 after Tutu Park Mall and at the second light turn right to continue on Rte 38 which will take you past Wyndham Sugar Bay, Point Pleasant, Sapphire, etc. and all the way into Red Hook where the ferry terminal will be on your left.

Just take whichever barge is leaving first and best advised to get a one-way ticket as they don't honor each other's tickets and you don't want to get hung up on your return trip."

Easier than it sounds from directions above - there a little signs with a Starfish on them that leads you to RedHook - you will see them on Route 38.  There is a small fee on the RedHook side in the car barge parking lot - this lot is right next to passenger ferry.


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## polly0014

Thank you so  much for the info!!!  So very helpful!!!  Looking forward to WSJ!!!!

-Polly


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## DavidnRobin

polly0014 said:


> Thank you so  much for the info!!!  So very helpful!!!  Looking forward to WSJ!!!!
> 
> -Polly



Glad to help.  Just follow waterfront until left turn at Havensight (most cars are making this left) and then make right on Rte 38 (a couple of blocks up) and follow signs on Rte 38 to RedHook to the entrance of the car barge.  It is a bit hectic getting onto barge with locals cutting slow moving tourists off - but the car barge folks will direct you.

Enjoy StJ. Stay Left. Go Slow.


----------



## bobpark56

We found that (for 2 people) if we waited until getting to St John to pick up our car and then turned it in the day before we left, the savings on car rental more than paid for the ferry.
  --bp


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## DavidnRobin

bobpark56 said:


> We found that (for 2 people) if we waited until getting to St John to pick up our car and then turned it in the day before we left, the savings on car rental more than paid for the ferry.
> --bp



Bob - Interesting point (and as I said in my response to Polly - not necessarily a TUG consensus...).

Of course it depends on the length of time you want to rent the car - the car size and season will also make a difference - these will factor into the cost of the car rental (generally true no matter where you are).

Have you done the math? Mine does not work out cheaper (or equilvalent) for the WSJ ferry - even for 2 people.

If you rent on StT - you will be renting for 7 days.  So if you only rent for 5 days picking up in StJ (assumes Sat arrival with pick-up on Sunday, and return Friday to leave on Sat) - that would be around a savings of ~$90/day.  However, and importantly, generally when you rent for a week you are getting the 7th day for free - this is true for both StT and StJ  (e.g. check-out O'Connor's rates).  So... you are only saving the cost of 1 day.  $90 in this example. (remembering that there is a $3.75 per day tax that is imposed by the USVI)

Right now, iirc, the ferry cost is $120pp RT - so $240 for 2 people.  With the car barge costing an extra $70 for RT (incl extra gas and lot fee) - this is a  negative savings of ~$80 for 2 people in taking the WSJ ferry.
{I believe my math is approx correct: $90+$70 more for renting for 7 days on StT (vs. 5-day rental on StJ) vs. $240 for the WSJ ferry}

So... of course costing $80 more for the WSJ ferry may be worth the convenience for 2 people - but when you increase to 4 people - renting on StT makes clearly more financial sense - as it will be an additional $240.

In addition, generally StT car rentals are a bit cheaper than StJ, and that is not factored in. This is not true for Amalie Car Rental (the are more expensive by StT standards but ~equal to StJ).  btw, as a data point our June trip (14 day rental of a new 4WD, 4Dr Wrangler XL) from Amalie is $540/week (total, incl tax and STT pick-up/drop-off), and their cars are almost brand new as they only keep vehicles for a short time (plus, having a mini-RCA in the car is worth a lot to us).  Having a new vehicle is important to us (actually, not having an unsafe vehicle is more important to us...) - so I am willing to pay this premium.  I have had 2 experiences where the vehicles were unacceptable (1x on StT from Dependable, and 1x from Conrad Sutton on StJ), but was stuck with them.  And the 2 times I rented from O'Connor was not pleasant either... (but that is another story).

So... that is my experience (and math...) - YMMV
enjoy.


----------



## polly0014

The size of the vehicle is actually one of our main concerns.  We are traveling with our 2 boys (age 6 and 10), so 4 of us.  With our luggage and checked cooler bags, we are needing a mid size SUV at least.  Slightly concerned about driving it over on STJ.  I've been reading reports of getting side swiped a bit.  

We do have a spreadsheet going comparing the costs of renting the car in STT vs cabrides/ferry/5 day car rental (possibly from Conrad Sutton), vs Westin ferry/ shorter car rental....It's all expensive no matter which way you choose.  We do want to ferry back over to STT one day to shop and take the kids to Paradise Point.  

We will be there July 25-Aug 2, 8 nights--Thursday-Friday.  So excited.  So many options though as far as transportation goes.  The transportation is the huge expense of course for this trip.  

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice!!  So helpful for a newbie to STJ!

-polly


----------



## DavidnRobin

polly0014 said:


> The size of the vehicle is actually one of our main concerns.  We are traveling with our 2 boys (age 6 and 10), so 4 of us.  With our luggage and checked cooler bags, we are needing a mid size SUV at least.  Slightly concerned about driving it over on STJ.  I've been reading reports of getting side swiped a bit.
> 
> We do have a spreadsheet going comparing the costs of renting the car in STT vs cabrides/ferry/5 day car rental (possibly from Conrad Sutton), vs Westin ferry/ shorter car rental....It's all expensive no matter which way you choose.  We do want to ferry back over to STT one day to shop and take the kids to Paradise Point.
> 
> We will be there July 25-Aug 2, 8 nights--Thursday-Friday.  So excited.  So many options though as far as transportation goes.  The transportation is the huge expense of course for this trip.
> 
> I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice!!  So helpful for a newbie to STJ!
> 
> -polly



We have 4 adults (3 large) with 4 pieces of checkin luggage, and carryon.  the 4Dr Wrangler XL is plenty big enough.

Be careful with size - the vehicles tend to run small.  Our first year (rented from Conrad Sutton in Cruz Bay) and we couldn't fit in the car with our luggage and 2 people had to take taxi to WSJ.  btw - I would not rent from Conrad-Sutton (IMO). Only upside is parking in Cruz Bay, but others offer that as well (rarely an issue for us)

As to worry about getting hit - plenty (PLENTY) of people rent on StT and use the car barge - like bad hotel stays - mainly people with bad experiences post.  This is just crazy talk - seriously, it ain't that hard - just be careful - as you should on StJ as well (and carry insurance...)

As to your issue of spending a day on StT - you can buy a shopping pass for WSJ ferry, use the public ferry, take the car barge... or just use the WSJ ferry and rent on StJ.  Personally, we have ZERO desire to be on StT (you may see why when you are there...).  All we want to do on StT is to get off of StT ASAP.

yes - it is expensive - no matter what you do.

like TSing - each family has individual needs (and ours are not necessarily the same as yours). Renting from Amalie is what we do after 6 years of going the other routes (lesson learned) - and will do in our future trips.

Here is a photo of our vehicle on car barge (red one) - best of luck whatever you decide


----------



## SMHarman

polly0014 said:


> The size of the vehicle is actually one of our main concerns.  We are traveling with our 2 boys (age 6 and 10), so 4 of us.  With our luggage and checked cooler bags, we are needing a mid size SUV at least.  Slightly concerned about driving it over on STJ.  I've been reading reports of getting side swiped a bit.
> -polly


If that is really a problem then you could potentially divide and conquer.  One of you could take the Westin ferry and some luggage and run an advance party to checkin.  The other and the boys (and an extra car seat for luggage) could ride the ferry with a car.


----------



## DavidnRobin

SMHarman said:


> If that is really a problem then you could potentially divide and conquer.  One of you could take the Westin ferry and some luggage and run an advance party to checkin.  The other and the boys (and an extra car seat for luggage) could ride the ferry with a car.



Funny you mention this - one year we had to wait about 2 hours for the next WSJ ferry (another potential downside) - so I jumped in a taxi to the passenger ferry in RedHook to get over to StJ in time to pick-up the rental car at O'Connor by 5pm while others waited for ferry (we only were there for 1 week back then, and saving time was important).  Having a car the 1st night (pick-up supplies) and last night (to go out to dinner) is nice.  It cost $20 for 4 people to take a taxi 1-way from WSJ to CruzBay at night (talk about expensive... it is like 7 mins away by car).

btw - the taxis and public ferry charge per bag.


----------



## Beaglemom3

Got this from Lynn Giovanna on St. John. She is a realtor, but I have no assoication with her except that I am on her email blast list.

Many units, varying prices. Good info if you're buying or selling (or both):

http://www.islandiarealestate.com/condo.cfm?Attributes.Type=Timeshare


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## DavidnRobin

Beaglemom3 said:


> Got this from Lynn Giovanna on St. John. She is a realtor, but I have no assoication with her except that I am on her email blast list.
> 
> Many units, varying prices. Good info if you're buying or selling (or both):
> 
> http://www.islandiarealestate.com/condo.cfm?Attributes.Type=Timeshare



Thanks - certainly a lot of listings (I didn't know there was a 4Bd - ). I know a Tugger that just purchased one on the list (offered 40% less).  I haven't been to Islandia site for a while, but quite informative.  Majority of these are way over-priced compared to the resales that I am aware of.

Hey Jody - there is a week 24 3Bd for a reasonable price  - we can share a boat charter and snorkel/party!


----------



## Westin5Star

I would love to buy week 24 but the kids Junior Olympic qualifiers in swimming is always around that week.  Hopefully we can at least rent one week around that time so we can do the boat charter.  We would have a blast!


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## bobpark56

To DavidnRobin, re Math:
(a) We were on St J for more that a week, so we got the discounted weekly rental rate for our vehicle;
(b) We received a 10% discount for paying in cash (Is this available on St T?).
This all helped make the 'math' work for us.
  --bp


----------



## polly0014

Hi David,  

Just wanted to thank you so much for your thoughts on car rentals.  I emailed Amalie and they quoted us 8 days plus confirmed the complimentary pick up/drop off since you referred us!!    

"2013 Jeep Wrangler unlimited, 4-door, 5-pass +large luggage space is $671/8 days+$3.75/day gov tax.
As referred by David you will get the compl. pick up/drop off at the airport."

Thank you so much!  I think we're leaning this way to go ahead and pick it up in STT, car barge, have the car all 8 days.

I really appreciate your advice!

-polly


----------



## clsmit

DavidnRobin said:


> Heads-up...
> 
> *****
> The 2011 Property Tax bills are going to be sent soon.  iirc, property taxes are still at the 1999 rate. {for reference - we pay about $133 for each of our 2Bd TH weeks in June}
> Property taxes up to 2010 should already be paid.  With 2011 paid, that will just leave 2012 left to catch-up on back taxes.



The big talk at the owners' Monday night cocktail party here was that WSJ management gets all the bills mailed to them, overriding the address on the ownership, and holds them a while (reason unknown), making it hard or impossible to get the 5% prepay discount by paying early. A number of multiweek owners were upset that WSJ does this. (I think they were big renters, but that doesn't really matter.) 

Solar panels are now on the roofs of 41, 43, and 44 (out of sight from the ground).


----------



## clsmit

*Pricing snippet*

3BR Bay Vista, Plat + Season, owner pricing, about $62K. (Are taking some trade-in units (WMH, WKV) as they do at other sites to offset pricing.)

Owners update incentive $125 in "Dollars" which we used at the Starfish market.


----------



## DavidnRobin

clsmit said:


> The big talk at the owners' Monday night cocktail party here was that WSJ management gets all the bills mailed to them, overriding the address on the ownership, and holds them a while (reason unknown), making it hard or impossible to get the 5% prepay discount by paying early. A number of multiweek owners were upset that WSJ does this. (I think they were big renters, but that doesn't really matter.)



I used to get both bills (from USVI and WSJ) - but neither so far.

It is possible to pay the Tax bill directly to the USVI (if they are so concerned), and bypass WSJ being the middle-man.

I think WSJ acts as the middle-man because (iirc) when I saw the addresses for WSJ Owners at the USVI website (back when it was free) - the addresses were all over the place (deed addresses did not match Prop Tax addresses - mine had this problem) .  I think WSJ wants to make sure that the Owners get their tax bills so they can be paid, and there is nothing neferious going on.

I hope your vacation is going well - and all is good at WSJ.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Update from WSJ-VG HOA BOD*

*March 29, 2013*

*Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Villas Owner:*
We recently returned from the March 2013 Annual Association Meeting and Board Meeting of our timeshare condominium owners association (which lasted for six hours in the usual windowless conference room), and we are writing to report to you on developments relating to our property. 

*Resort kudos*
One piece of excellent news is that The Westin St. John’s rating on tripadvisor.com has gone up from 3.5 stars to 4 stars, likely reflecting the many improvements in the resort. Also, Starwood Preferred Guest (SPG) members voted our resort the best beach resort in the system. In addition, SPG periodically sends its Gold and Platinum members a “thank you” card that they can hand out to employees who are doing a particularly good job; these cards are worth 500 StarPoints to any owner who submits one. We gave out more of these cards than owners at any of the other resorts, and more individual staff members received them than at any of the other resorts – a reflection of the excellent service we have been receiving. 

*Recent improvements*
These are among the recent improvements to our property that were reported at the meeting:
- Much improved internet bandwidth, from 1.5 to 30 megabits per second
- Improved television signal quality
- 70 new beach chairs, 26 new beach umbrellas, and replacements for all of the pool and beach floats
- Trees are about to be trimmed to improve views from the hillside villas
- Continued installation of photo-voltaic cells to keep our electricity bill down

Keeping energy costs down:
Let us focus for a moment on the cost of electricity, as this is the most troublesome, though in some ways the most controllable, of our operating costs. The cost is a combination of two factors: how much electricity we consume, and what we pay per kilowatt hour. Consumption has declined substantially in recent years, from an average of 93 kWh per occupied room in the years before the recent refurbishment of the resort to a forecasted 65 kWh per occupied room this year. This has been made possible through changes in our air conditioning, hot water, and lighting systems, and as a result of better insulated doors and windows.

The next step in reducing consumption is up to us owners. We can significantly reduce costs, and therefore avoid higher than necessary maintenance fee increases, by turning off lights and televisions, and turning up the thermostat to reduce the air conditioning, whenever we leave the unit to go to the beach or pool. In addition, during months when the night temperature is not very high, it is possible to sleep with the patio door screened rather than closed and the fan operating.

Although consumption has decreased substantially, the cost per kWh purchased from the electric company is constantly increasing, from 31 cents per kWh in 2010 to about 50 cents now, and it is likely to go higher. Therefore, as you know, we have been installing photo-voltaic cells where possible, which pay for themselves in 7 to 8 years at present electric rates, and in shorter periods of time as cell prices continue to fall and electric rates continue to rise. There are photo-voltaic arrays on the flat portions of the roofs of buildings 41, 43, and 44, and building 42 will get them within the coming months. In the next phase, we will install an array of photo-voltaic cells behind building 32; these will have motors to keep them pointing toward the sun as the earth rotates. We are also exploring other alternative energy sources, as we do not have room for enough photo-voltaic cells to meet all of the needs of Virgin Grand.

*Delinquencies*
Collection of maintenance fees is running at about the same rate as in recent years, and we continue to have to make up shortfalls for approximately 5% of owners who do not pay their maintenance fees and are consequently barred from using their units. We also are moving as quickly as is legally possible to foreclose on the units of seriously delinquent owners so that their units can be re-sold and produce revenue for the association. 

*Bargain sale of association-owned units coming soon!*
Some owners who were delinquent have turned their deeds over to the association to avoid a foreclosure lawsuit. As a result, the association currently owns 54 unit weeks. You may recall that we conducted a bargain sale to existing owners of association-owned weeks. We are going to do it again. 

Watch your incoming email for a notice in May or June; we will be selling some weeks for as low as $500 (for a studio) to $7000 (for a pool villa) in low season, or somewhat more in high season (and the association will pay any real estate taxes that were billed before the closing date which remain unpaid). Particularly, if you already own a week adjacent to one that is placed for sale, you may be able to benefit from this sale and have a longer stay in St. John each year without spending more for air fare. This is a win-win opportunity: Virgin Grand owners will be able to buy additional weeks at very deep discounts, and the association will receive annual maintenance fees from the buyers of units that at present do not produce revenue, which causes existing owners to have to pay more toward the association’s fixed expenses. 

*Real estate taxes*
Tax bills for 2011 will be going out very soon, if they haven’t been sent already. Tax bills for 2012 are expected this summer. We understand that the assessments for 2012 will be based on full value rather than 60% of value, so expect a substantial tax increase. There is nothing we can do about this, we are sorry to say. 

*Owner exchange, rental and sale bulletin board*
As you know, we have been working with a website development company to develop an online bulletin board through which owners could offer their units for sale, rent, or exchange to other Virgin Grand owners, list weeks that they want to rent or buy, and list their contact information in a constantly updated owner directory. This project has been progressing at a much slower pace than we expected, but the site is almost ready for beta testing (the two of us will be among the testers), and after testing it will be ready for use. It is frustrating that this has taken so long, but we hope to have it “live” within a few more months. 

*Special rental offer*
As we mentioned in a previous report, Virgin Grand Owners can rent villas by the day, at a substantially discounted rate, at westinresortstjohn.com/vg-owners. This presents an opportunity to extend your stay at the resort by a few days, if a unit (such as a unit that is developer-owned, or one for which use had been denied to a delinquent owner) is available. Since air fares are usually lower on Tuesdays (particularly) and other weekdays, compared to weekends, you may be able to get a few extra days in St. John without paying much more, by renting through this offer and flying on a day with less air traffic.

*Upstairs in buildings 41 and 42*
Some owners in buildings 41 and 42 have asked that a wall be installed to turn the large room upstairs, which currently can be divided by sliding partition boards, into two rooms, each of which would offer privacy. According to the legal advice we have received, the association’s governing documents prohibit this unless all of the owners of the 52 weeks in a particular unit (such as 4210) agree. The Board requested Management to try to poll the owners of those weeks to determine whether, for any such unit, all the owners agree. If they do, a permanent wall will be installed; the cost to the association is minimal, and such a wall is already provided for in the reserve budget in the event that the pertinent owners ever agree to this change. 

*Term limits for owner-elected directors*
An owner suggested that the By-laws be amended to impose term limits on owner-elected directors (except directors elected before such amendment). The Board will consider this suggestion in the near future. 

*Election of board member*
The three-year term of one of us (Philip Schrag) expired at this meeting, but was extended through re-election by the non-developer membership to another three-year term. 

Sincerely,
Your owner-elected directors, 
Philip G. Schrag 
phil.schrag@gmail.com 
Bob Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com


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## Westin5Star

WSJ board seems very active.  They seem to really care and continually make positive improvements.  I don't own there yet, but I offer my congratulations and thanks to them anyway!


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## DavidnRobin

I whole-heartedly agree with having Phil and Bob on the WSJ-VG HOA BOD - things have vastly improved over the last couple of years since they were voted in by non-developer votes.  Great to see that Phil was re-elected again by non-developer votes, and that SVO again allowed this (because they are not required to do so).  It would be great if other SVO resorts could learn a lesson from this.

It appears that WSJ may have better internet bandwidth than WKORV/N - which is just sad for WKORV/N (and no Hooters close by ).  This doesn't really impact me, but our travel buddy will like this as he is a Gamer-geek.  Robin may have to work remotely while we are there in June - so this may be useful.

I am glad to see the other recent improvements (except we do not watch TV while on StJ), and that they have gotten in front of the energy issues.  The WAPA (USVI energy provider) costs have gotten out of hand.

Last time they offered bargain deals to WSJ Owners of deliquent VOIs - I put is for a week adjacent to ours, but it was not accepted.  Glad to hear that this will be a factor considered.


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## SMHarman

DavidnRobin said:


> *March 29, 2013*
> 
> *Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Villas Owner:*
> We recently returned from the March 2013 Annual Association Meeting and Board Meeting of our timeshare condominium owners association (which lasted for six hours in the usual windowless conference room), and we are writing to report to you on developments relating to our property.
> 
> Keeping energy costs down:
> Let us focus for a moment on the cost of electricity, as this is the most troublesome, though in some ways the most controllable, of our operating costs. The cost is a combination of two factors: how much electricity we consume, and what we pay per kilowatt hour. Consumption has declined substantially in recent years, from an average of 93 kWh per occupied room in the years before the recent refurbishment of the resort to a forecasted 65 kWh per occupied room this year. This has been made possible through changes in our air conditioning, hot water, and lighting systems, and as a result of better insulated doors and windows.
> 
> The next step in reducing consumption is up to us owners. We can significantly reduce costs, and therefore avoid higher than necessary maintenance fee increases, by turning off lights and televisions, and turning up the thermostat to reduce the air conditioning, whenever we leave the unit to go to the beach or pool. In addition, during months when the night temperature is not very high, it is possible to sleep with the patio door screened rather than closed and the fan operating.
> 
> Although consumption has decreased substantially, the cost per kWh purchased from the electric company is constantly increasing, from 31 cents per kWh in 2010 to about 50 cents now, and it is likely to go higher. Therefore, as you know, we have been installing photo-voltaic cells where possible, which pay for themselves in 7 to 8 years at present electric rates, and in shorter periods of time as cell prices continue to fall and electric rates continue to rise. There are photo-voltaic arrays on the flat portions of the roofs of buildings 41, 43, and 44, and building 42 will get them within the coming months. In the next phase, we will install an array of photo-voltaic cells behind building 32; these will have motors to keep them pointing toward the sun as the earth rotates. We are also exploring other alternative energy sources, as we do not have room for enough photo-voltaic cells to meet all of the needs of Virgin Grand.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Your owner-elected directors,
> Philip G. Schrag
> phil.schrag@gmail.com
> Bob Werbel
> robert.werbel@yahoo.com


Have they considered enhancements to thermostats and the like in each unit.  The expensive nest looks cheap if its motion it will shut down those air conditioners when people are not in their rooms.
In other high energy places I have seen a system where you have to put a keycard in a slot on the wall inside the front door for much of the electrical appliances in the room to work.  I imagine the cost of retrofitting that might be a problem but they would seem to be great ways of cutting energy usage.


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## clsmit

*Power Use at WSJ*

At the owners' cocktail party the staff seemed interested in more ideas to cut down on power use. One suggestion was to put a small sign by the doors to remind people to turn off lights. Also the default A/C temp seems to be 69, which they will look into.


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## DavidnRobin

SMHarman said:


> Have they considered enhancements to thermostats and the like in each unit.  The expensive nest looks cheap if its motion it will shut down those air conditioners when people are not in their rooms.
> In other high energy places I have seen a system where you have to put a keycard in a slot on the wall inside the front door for much of the electrical appliances in the room to work.  I imagine the cost of retrofitting that might be a problem but they would seem to be great ways of cutting energy usage.



Sounds like a good idea - I have seen these used in the EU extensively.  I am not sure if they have looked into these because I am not privy to their investigations.  One issue I could foresee with such a device is that it could (would) get overly hot in the villa when not occupied and take a while to cool down (creating a lot of energy usage on its own - it gets very hot while we are there in June).  We keep the thermostat pretty high (80F) once we have acclimated and use the fans extensively - beside I do not like to go from extremes from going inside (AC)/outside (hot) as it tends to set off a head-cold.

Our villa has 3 AC controllers (iirc) - one for each Bedroom (upstairs) and one for downstairs - plus has a fan in each bedroom, and a fan downstairs.


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## Ken555

SMHarman said:


> Have they considered enhancements to thermostats and the like in each unit.  The expensive nest looks cheap if its motion it will shut down those air conditioners when people are not in their rooms.



I've got a Nest, and think it's great, but I'm not sure it's the best solution for a rental property.



> In other high energy places I have seen a system where you have to put a keycard in a slot on the wall inside the front door for much of the electrical appliances in the room to work.  I imagine the cost of retrofitting that might be a problem but they would seem to be great ways of cutting energy usage.



I think these should be mandatory for all new rental properties...everywhere. Like David, I've seen these throughout Europe (including many Starwood properties) and they work well. Of course, I learned a trick from the staff a few months ago when there, to simply put the do not disturb card in the slot instead of the room key...which defeats the purpose if you're not present. Keep in mind that in Europe this is used as a master power for the room, not just for a/c, as all lights and power are disabled if the key isn't inserted. 

I know several (all?) of the Starwood timeshare properties automatically turn off a/c if the door is open (particularly the door to the patio). 

I think it's great they're exploring other avenues to save electricity.


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## SMHarman

I'm sure you can program it to stop the place going above a certain temp when you are away, just like it has a frost setting which will stop a space going below 10c if you are away (more useful in the NE than in St John)


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## Cornhusker

Ken555 said:


> I think these should be mandatory for all new rental properties...everywhere. Like David, I've seen these throughout Europe (including many Starwood properties) and they work well. Of course, I learned a trick from the staff a few months ago when there, to simply put the do not disturb card in the slot instead of the room key...which defeats the purpose if you're not present. Keep in mind that in Europe this is used as a master power for the room, not just for a/c, as all lights and power are disabled if the key isn't inserted.



I recently stayed at a Westin Element brand that had this system.  I believe all the Element hotels are supposed to be LEED certified.  Very few of the interior lights or appliances worked unless you inserted the key card.  No way to cheat and use the DND card either as the DND sign was a magnet you stuck on a metal strip affixed to the outside of the room door.  I just wish they had clued me in at the front desk during check-in.  I looked pretty stupid trying to get the lights turned on in the room until I figured it out....and I am an engineer. 

I know everyone is different but a lot of hotels have the a/c set way to low for me and my wife.  I can't count the number of Starwood rooms I have been in that I could not get the room to warm up at all by increasing the temp on the thermostat.  When I am travelling (especially south) I like the room temp set higher to acclimate to the outdoors.  At our recent stay at WLR (as with most villa properties I have visited) I was pleased to find the room hvac quite responsive to the thermostat setting. I wish more hotel rooms were this way.  I just got back from Houston and had to actually turn the in-room unit off to get it to warm up, as I have in many locations.

I am not real anal about all the green movement from an environmental standpoint, but much of it makes real (common) sense from a practical standpoint.  It is good that WSJ is looking hard at ways to conserve.  Also good to see the wifi upgrade.  Really looking forward to our first visit there later this year!!!!!!


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## SMHarman

[Duplicate]


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## SMHarman

Cornhusker said:


> I recently stayed at a Westin Element brand that had this system.  I believe all the Element hotels are supposed to be LEED certified.  Very few of the interior lights or appliances worked unless you inserted the key card.  No way to cheat and use the DND card either as the DND sign


But any other spare plastic credit card sized thing will do, such as your Starwood Preferred Guest Platinum Card  . Not that I am advocating cheating here.



Ken555 said:


> I've got a Nest, and think it's great, but I'm not sure it's the best solution for a rental property.
> 
> I think it's great they're exploring other avenues to save electricity.


I was thinking that it is more intuitive to use than most programmable thermostats etc.


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## DavidnRobin

This is a WSJ  thread - perhaps discussions about energy use at other Starwood TSs and apparently hotels should have their own thread...?


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## Cornhusker

DavidnRobin said:


> This is a WSJ  thread - perhaps discussions about energy use at other Starwood TSs and apparently hotels should have their own thread...?



Well you started it....sort of.


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## jarta

DavidnRobin said:


> Sounds like a good idea - I have seen these used in the EU extensively.  I am not sure if they have looked into these because I am not privy to their investigations.  One issue I could foresee with such a device is that it could (would) get overly hot in the villa when not occupied and take a while to cool down (creating a lot of energy usage on its own - it gets very hot while we are there in June).  We keep the thermostat pretty high (80F) once we have acclimated and use the fans extensively - beside I do not like to go from extremes from going inside (AC)/outside (hot) as it tends to set off a head-cold.
> 
> Our villa has 3 AC controllers (iirc) - one for each Bedroom (upstairs) and one for downstairs - plus has a fan in each bedroom, and a fan downstairs.



I think you contributed to the "OT" discussion.  When my wife and I were at the Sheraton Iguassu Falls last month, we ran into the same pretty nifty little way of conserving energy.

I had trouble making the lights, electrical outlets (for charging our laptop, iPad and camera) and air conditioning work until I called and was told to slide my room key card into a slot on a little device on the wall (similar to a slot to open a hotel room door).  When I did, suddenly every electrical connection went on.  When I took the key card out when I left the room, everything shut off again.   Salty


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## DavidnRobin

Cornhusker said:


> Well you started it....sort of.



True - as it related to energy use at WSJ, but when it gets to bringing in SPG Hotels to the discussion - perhaps better suited for it's own thread (or on SPG FlyerTalk).

One main difference - beyond the energy waste topic - is that SVO resorts our 'owned' (in theory) by the HOA and have a distinct Ownership pay directly to energy costs as part of the MFs.  At WSJ, this becomes a major part of the MFs because the WAPA (USVI Energy Supplier) costs have skyrocketted.  Many of those fancy villas (owned by the Rich&Famous) pay $1000+ *per month* in energy costs (something not mentioned on HGTV International House Hunters...)


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## tomandrobin

Is it May 2014 yet?

We are jonesing for some WSJ......only 13 months to go!


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## GregT

tomandrobin said:


> We are jonesing for some WSJ.....



Everytime I see this thread, it reminds me that I need to go to WSJ....


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## DavidnRobin

and I thought this thread was to serve my personal narcissism, and to validate my self-importance... :ignore: :rofl:

we are getting excited as well - just 8-weeks away...
Flights made - check
4WD reserved - check
Snorkels/Flippers - check
Sun shirts - check
Swim trunks - check
Sun lotion - check
Bug repellant - check 

Still need to contact Ted's Supper Club, and Stu...


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## DavidnRobin

*2011 Tax Bill Received*

Just received our 2011 Property Tax bills - due April 8, and delinquent on June 8
(As today is April 6 - sure glad I have 2 days before they are due... )
Same rate as 2010.

I received no credit for sending 2010 payment early 

2012 tax bill expected in 6-8 months - it will be interesting to see rate.

Current Owners are encouraged to make sure previous tax bills have been paid as the current Owner is responsible - the past due bills are supposed to be listed on back of 2011 bill.


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## ferndale

DavidnRobin said:


> and I thought this thread was to serve my personal narcissism, and to validate my self-importance... :ignore: :rofl:
> 
> we are getting excited as well - just 8-weeks away...
> Flights made - check
> 4WD reserved - check
> Snorkels/Flippers - check
> Sun shirts - check
> Swim trunks - check
> Sun lotion - check
> Bug repellant - check
> 
> Still need to contact Ted's Supper Club, and Stu...



We will be there for our new week June 9th.  Would love to meet up if you are there at the same time.  
Does anyone in your party scuba dive?


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## DavidnRobin

ferndale said:


> We will be there for our new week June 9th.  Would love to meet up if you are there at the same time.
> Does anyone in your party scuba dive?



Sounds great - always good to meet up with other Tuggers - we will be there 6/7-6/21 - Villa 3410.

I used to dive, but don't anymore (I got PADI certified in Monterey CA in 1991, and dove extensively while sailing the BVIs, St Vincent/Grenadines/Grenada, and Antigua/St Kitts).  Too much effort nowadays - and Robin is not interested.  My travel buddy still dives on occasion - and has used Cruz Bay WaterSports thru WSJ.

If it only 2 of you - we are planning a BVI water day with a guy I know (Stu) who lives on STT, but we can only take 2 more as he is not allowed more than 6 passengers - sort of a bareboat deal where he picks up boat and then picks us up.  Jerseygirl went with us once - and Jody (W5*) used him once.


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## ferndale

DavidnRobin said:


> Sounds great - always good to meet up with other Tuggers - we will be there 6/7-6/21 - Villa 3410.
> 
> I used to dive, but don't anymore (I got PADI certified in Monterey CA in 1991, and dove extensively while sailing the BVIs, St Vincent/Grenadines/Grenada, and Antigua/St Kitts).  Too much effort nowadays - and Robin is not interested.  My travel buddy still dives on occasion - and has used Cruz Bay WaterSports thru WSJ.
> 
> If it only 2 of you - we are planning a BVI water day with a guy I know (Stu) who lives on STT, but we can only take 2 more as he is not allowed more than 6 passengers - sort of a bareboat deal where he picks up boat and then picks us up.  Jerseygirl went with us once - and Jody (W5*) used him once.




There will be 5 ( husband, son, girlfriend from Germany, and another girlfriend) of us so I guess we lose on water day.  We will be in 4410 I think.  We plan to dive Mon-saturday in the mornings.  If your buddy wants to join us any day, he is welcome.  We are using Low-Key Watersports, but they will pick us up right at the wsj dock.  I have only been to wsj once and it was 8 years ago to the hotel.  This will be a " get the lay of the land and figure out future plans" vaca for us.  We have been enjoying Maui for 10 years, and enjoying wkorv since it was built (can't remember when that was).  Those trips are now easy to plan as I know exactly what we want to do and what companies with!  Any great advice on wsj is highly appreciated.  We aren't renting a car this time as we will dive everyday till 1 or so.  I am still not sure that is a good choice, but hubby thinks it is.


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## DavidnRobin

ferndale said:


> There will be 5 ( husband, son, girlfriend from Germany, and another girlfriend) of us so I guess we lose on water day.  We will be in 4410 I think.  We plan to dive Mon-saturday in the mornings.  If your buddy wants to join us any day, he is welcome.  We are using Low-Key Watersports, but they will pick us up right at the wsj dock.  I have only been to wsj once and it was 8 years ago to the hotel.  This will be a " get the lay of the land and figure out future plans" vaca for us.  We have been enjoying Maui for 10 years, and enjoying wkorv since it was built (can't remember when that was).  Those trips are now easy to plan as I know exactly what we want to do and what companies with!  Any great advice on wsj is highly appreciated.  We aren't renting a car this time as we will dive everyday till 1 or so.  I am still not sure that is a good choice, but hubby thinks it is.



Those 3 Bd pool villas are really sweet - so party at your place. 

I do not think they are allowed to pick you up at the WSJ dock (itself) - this was made as a 911 Security Issue a couple of years ago. Perhaps this has changed, but do not think so (at least that I have heard, and I keep up StJ news)  We got in trouble last time with a quick drop-off and were threatened with being fined.  Island Time, Cruz Bay WaterSports, and the WSJ Ferry, and some other smaller boat - cant remember name (all operated by WSJ) are supposed to be the only ones allowed to use the WSJ dock.  Most charters use the NPS dock in Cruz Bay.
So... You may want to check on this - maybe Low-Key worked out a deal with WSJ.
We have used a water entry off of the WSJ beach which is allowed (bizarre rules).

Also, Low-Key has just changed Ownership as the previous Owner was busted for (big-time) drug dealing - was big news on StJ.  Not saying this reflects in anyway on new Ownership - just an FYI.

I posted links to various trip reports a few pages ago - so you may want to read these for ideas on what to do on StJ.  Pretty much go to beach... I would also recommend the NPS Reef Bay hike - the process has changed recently (I think I posted this), but easy to search on-line.

I would suggest diving The Indians, and The Rhone - both of these are in the BVI so you will need to check-in/out with the BVIs - a bit of a hassle.  On the other side of the BVI chain there are The Dogs - good dive, but a long haul.  We dove off of the sailboat in the BVIs in 1991 - way before GPS or Internet - we just sort off found these places by asking around (commonly known now).


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## DavidnRobin

ferndale said:


> We aren't renting a car this time as we will dive everyday till 1 or so.  I am still not sure that is a good choice, but hubby thinks it is.



On the topic of getting a 4WD... and I know many disagree with this (or think it is too hard... which it is not).  If you plan to use the WSJ Ferry - it will cost you 5x$120 = $600 - this is the cost for a week of renting large 4WD (4Dr Wrangler XL) on StT and taking car barge.  And it will give you tremendous flexibility (and not depend on taxi-buses to get around) - especially if you want to get over to Coral Bay (Salt Pond, Lameshur, RamsHead, etc) plus go to Leinster Bay (WaterLemon Cay) and Frances Bay which is difficult by taxi-bus.  The taxi-bus charges per person one-way.  $5pp one-way just to go CruzBay.  Taxi prices are listed on VINOW.com - they also list Cruise Ship schedule which you will want to be aware of to stay away from certain North-side beaches on these days.


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## Henry M.

Just got to WSJ this afternoon. I had reserved a 1BR through a StarOption  exchange from one of my WKORV units. I was therefore expecting to be up Hillside. Instead, I was upgraded to a 2BR BV unit on the top floor of building 25. It is very nice, though the second bedroom is wasted on my wife and I. If I had known, I might have brought some friends along!

The room is nice and very spacious. I have a balcony off the living room and another one off the bedroom. I'm pretty satisfied with the room.

I think I prefer to be closer to the resort here at BV, rather than up at Hillside, but I have to be here a day or two to really make up my mind. I'll do more exploring tomorrow.

I'm glad I took the Westin ferry this time. I might try something different in the future, but for my first visit, it was nice to get off the plane, onto the shuttle and the ferry, and right to the Westin in one fell swoop. Hardly any wait at all anywhere, since there was a ferry leaving shortly after I arrived at the Westin check-in location at the airport. My key was waiting and I was taken directly to the room. My luggage showed up a little later, while I was wandering around the property and getting my bearings. My day started at 3:30 am due to a very early flight from Texas to connect through Miami so the lack of any hassles or long waits was nice. It is just my wife and I so the cost is not too outrageous. As owners we each got $10 off the ferry rate - $110/person. We didn't need a car the first day, since we arrived close to 4:00 pm. Saving a day of rental makes the ferry cost more palatable. I plan to return the car by Thursday, since we have some all day excursions planned later in the week.

I pick up a rental Jeep tomorrow. We'll see how O'Connor, the on site rental place, does.


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## DavidnRobin

An extra room?  We will be there tomorrow nite - LOL
Those 2Bd top floor BV villas are nice.
Enjoy - good to hear that there is a $10 Owner discount for the Westin ferry (at least that is something) - and you are certainly correct - the WSJ ferry is by far the easiest - I missed the days when it cost $60.

Enjoy - let us know what you thought of your stay and if any thing new to know.


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## Ken555

emuyshondt said:


> Just got to WSJ this afternoon. I had reserved a 1BR through a StarOption  exchange from one of my WKORV units. I was therefore expecting to be up Hillside. Instead, I was upgraded to a 2BR BV unit on the top floor of building 25.



5* Elite benefits must be back!  

Enjoy it!


----------



## jarta

Ken555 said:


> 5* Elite benefits must be back!
> 
> Enjoy it!



:deadhorse: again?

Little unexpected niceties happen to 5 Star Elites at Starwood TS more than rarely.  We don't generally expect them and hardly ever talk about them.  We just say thank you, enjoy them and smile to ourselves when we read some of the posts on TUG.

Do you find it surprising that Starwood takes care of 5 Star Elites to the extent possible?  Don't break that computer crash in frustration.  Your money is still in the mattress.  Starwood has mine and Henry's!  lol!   Salty


----------



## Ken555

Some people just don't understand sarcasm. /sigh


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## bobpark56

jarta said:


> :deadhorse: again?
> 
> Little unexpected niceties happen to 5 Star Elites at Starwood TS more than rarely.  We don't generally expect them and hardly ever talk about them.  We just say thank you, enjoy them and smile to ourselves when we read some of the posts on TUG.
> 
> Do you find it surprising that Starwood takes care of 5 Star Elites to the extent possible?  Don't break that computer crash in frustration.  Your money is still in the mattress.  Starwood has mine and Henry's!  lol!   Salty



In our experience, you don't have to be 5-star elite. We are not even 3-star, and we were upgraded from a studio to a 3BR pool villa 3 years ago. Liked it so much that we bought an EOY pool villa for $11,000. We used it last Oct and are now waiting for Oct 2014 to roll around.


----------



## ferndale

DavidnRobin said:


> Those 3 Bd pool villas are really sweet - so party at your place.
> 
> I do not think they are allowed to pick you up at the WSJ dock (itself) - this was made as a 911 Security Issue a couple of years ago. Perhaps this has changed, but do not think so (at least that I have heard, and I keep up StJ news)  We got in trouble last time with a quick drop-off and were threatened with being fined.  Island Time, Cruz Bay WaterSports, and the WSJ Ferry, and some other smaller boat - cant remember name (all operated by WSJ) are supposed to be the only ones allowed to use the WSJ dock.  Most charters use the NPS dock in Cruz Bay.
> So... You may want to check on this - maybe Low-Key worked out a deal with WSJ.
> We have used a water entry off of the WSJ beach which is allowed (bizarre rules).
> 
> Also, Low-Key has just changed Ownership as the previous Owner was busted for (big-time) drug dealing - was big news on StJ.  Not saying this reflects in anyway on new Ownership - just an FYI.
> 
> I posted links to various trip reports a few pages ago - so you may want to read these for ideas on what to do on StJ.  Pretty much go to beach... I would also recommend the NPS Reef Bay hike - the process has changed recently (I think I posted this), but easy to search on-line.
> 
> I would suggest diving The Indians, and The Rhone - both of these are in the BVI so you will need to check-in/out with the BVIs - a bit of a hassle.  On the other side of the BVI chain there are The Dogs - good dive, but a long haul.  We dove off of the sailboat in the BVIs in 1991 - way before GPS or Internet - we just sort off found these places by asking around (commonly known now).




Ok - first and foremost - party at my pool!!  I will re-ask about the wsj scuba pickup, as well as try to convince my hubby that we do need a car and just to take the car ferry over.  thanks!


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## DavidnRobin

ferndale said:


> Ok - first and foremost - party at my pool!!  I will re-ask about the wsj scuba pickup, as well as try to convince my hubby that we do need a car and just to take the car ferry over.  thanks!



See my post earlier to polly (#1170) about using Amalie Car Rental on StT - and tell them I sent you and they may waive the pickup fee at STT.  Also, I posted directions to the car barge in RedHook.  The car barge drop off in StJ is like <5 mins from WSJ.

Stay Left, Drink Right, and Go Slow.


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## DavidnRobin

Ken555 said:


> Some people just don't understand sarcasm. /sigh



Ain't that the truth - the ignore feature works wonders (except when people use the quote function).


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## YYJMSP

jarta said:


> :deadhorse:



Is that a dog?

Oh, never mind, I get it -- it's a horse...


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## Henry M.

I had a nice day today. We drove up the north shore and looked at the various beaches there, out to Warerlemon. Ended up snorkeling at Trunk Bay. Will visit the other ones we liked tomorrow. The beaches are beautiful, and we also enjoyed the views.

Some random musings:

Yesterday we got some basic provision at the St. John Market, which is a short walk from the resort entrance. You take a left walking out of the resort and the market is just ahead. You can see it from the resort. It was convenient, and had all the basic things we wanted when we arrived. 

Today we stopped by Starfish Market on the way back to the resort. It is much bigger than the other market. It is not much farther, distance-wise, but there's a steep hill you have to go over, so it would not be practical to carry many groceries on foot. Cruz Bay is just a little bit further away. My GPS showed 0.7 miles from the resort to pretty much past Cruz Bay (Mongoose Junction), but that initial hill puts a damper on just walking over and back. A cab is about $5/person each way. I think it was about $11/person all the way to Trunk Bay. 

We spent some time in Cruz Bay this morning. Had lunch at Margarita Phil's. food was OK, but just like all the menu's we've seen, way overpriced. $19 for basic fish tacos, $10 for 7 small conch fritters. Most of the restaurant prices here are on the order of the higher end Maui restaurants, but at half the ambiance and food quality.

My experience with O'Connor Car Rental has been very good so far. I had low expectations, based on comments here, but haven't really had any issues. The lady that greeted us this morning was cordial and friendly. We got a 4WD Jeep Wrangler that is in good shape, has decent tires, and has been fun to drive. I also decided to reduce the number of days I'll keep the car, and there was no problem doing that, as long as I honor their 3 day minimum.

Given that there are only two of us, I would rent on St. John if I was doing this again. The cars I saw at O'Connor are all recent models, and seem to be in good shape. I don't need a car the afternoon I arrive, so that's about a $90 saving vs. having to pick something up in St. Thomas straight from the airport. You also save the $60 round trip fare for the ferry. The airport pickup is convenient and you don't have to drive around St. Thomas for a long time.

I'm planning some all day trips at the end, so won't need the car then either. All in all, I prefer the flexibility of deciding what to do with the car as I go along, and it would be harder to do with a car from St. Thomas. If my party were larger, then there would have been some savings if I didn't have to use the Westin ferry. Daily rates seem to be similar whether I rent in St. John or in St. Thomas. 

Most places I've been to don't really require a 4WD. There were only a couple of really steep turn on HWY 20 that could possibly be hairy if it was raining a lot. Maybe that is why everyone recommends 4WD. I haven't driven all the way up Centerline Rd., so there may be other places 4WD is necessary. So far all the roads I've traveled are paved and in decent shape. It is some short but very steep slopes around some curves that could be a problem. 

When we got back to the hotel in the evening, we had two bottles of Cruzan Raspberry Rum waiting as a welcome gift, with a letter for the general manager. Anybody have some good suggestions for mixed drinks with this rum? I haven't tried it before. Come on down to party, David and Robin! We have room to spare...

Actually, one of the bottles seems to have been delivered by mistake. I had two welcome letters, both with my room number written on the envelope. O e had my name, and the other haws welcoming Mr. And Mrs. Gilbert. I'll straighten that out tomorrow, if the bottle lasts that long 

Regarding the villa location, I changed my mind. I think I would like the Hillside setting better. I don't think we'll be using the resort amenities that much, and I like the view from higher up the hill better. Parking the car near the villa seems more convenient too. I haven't looked for the BBQ at BV, but the ones at Hillside seem pretty convenient. At BV, parking is much further away. I have not seen the Hillside villas inside, so I have no idea how they compare to BV. Both locations are good, though. I might favor one, but would not be upset to be placed at either location. 

I prefer an actual lockp-off to a straight two-bedroom unit. It doesn't matter for this trip, but if I were coming with my grown kids or with friends, I'd rather they have their own refrigerator and small kitchen. We'd probably eat dinner together and have lunch on the road, but it is nice to have breakfast on our own at whatever time we decide to wake up, either earlier or later than the rest of the crew. I've only stayed in lock-offs before and we're pretty used to them now.

WiFi seems to be working acceptably for web browsing and basic e-mail. Not good for trying to stream video or anything that requires high speed. Speedtest measures about 0.37 Mbps up and down on my iPad. My AT&T hotspot is faster, but sometimes seems to get hung up for a while before getting going again. It measures 2.19 Mbps down, .63 up.

As I said before, these are just some musings. This is a great resort, and the thoughts above are not complaints, just thoughts going through my mind about things I might want to consider when coming to a place like this for the first time. Hopefully they can help others.

Henry


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## tomandrobin

Thanks for posting your musings. 

We have always done the Westin Ferry, but next may might rent a jeep on St Thomas and drive over. 

We tend to spend at least 1-2 days of STJ, and 1-2 days at the resorts.....it is still a vacation. So having the jeep for the week doesn't always work for us. 

We have always had good dealings with the staff of O'Connor. Our only issue was the "suggested" open time posted on the door.


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## DavidnRobin

Great the read your post - we love StJ - anyone have a few million so we can buy one of those sweet island villas?

I would recommend only a 4WD regardless of renting on StJ or StT - a especially good tires.  It does rain (hard) at times and those steep hair pin curves are slippery.  Try getting to Centerline by going away from Cruz Bay and driving to Gifft Hill and over - shorter and way more fun. The steep hill between WSJ and StarFish is called Jacobs Ladder (appropriate) - would not recommend walking over it - and be very careful if one does.  And do not walk it after dark.
IMO

I have rented from OConnor at least twice.  My last encounter was quite amusing - glad to hear they have someone more cheery.  I really have no issue if people want to take Westin ferry - we have used it a few times.  But, justwant people to know that the STT method is not hard.  OConnor is easiest if renting on StJ.  btw - all StJ have had an increase in the amount of vehicles allowed on StJ (posted this awhile back) - so that has to be positive.   But the after taking all methods - especially with 4 people - it is just easier or us to get met outside STT with everything ready to go - and even easier when our friends split it...

We like the Hillside as well - but both are nice.  Definitely like the ability to get in/out fast with car parked right outside.  17 mins to Trunk Bay.  Try getting there around 3:45 when NPS Ranger has left, and watch sunset, BUT bring noseeum protection or stay in water (like me).  Also prefer pool/patio BBQ area between buildings.

Go to Frances Bay and snorkel around Maho Point - also check out glass making at Maho Campgronds - Maho is closing in May ( 55 year lease is over) - that point (23 acres) was sold for 13MM recently.


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## oneohana

emuyshondt said:


> When we got back to the hotel in the evening, we had two bottles of Cruzan Raspberry Rum waiting as a welcome gift, with a letter for the general manager.
> Henry



Glad to see that you got the welcome letter from the GM. We were there last year and had no 5* elite benefits. I think its hit and miss.


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## Henry M.

Another great day. We drove to Salt Pond and spent a few hours there. There were several types of sponges and conchs in the water. Also a forest of Christmas tree worms, as well as many plume worms. I did not get to do the trail to Rams Head. 

We drove over via road 104 and Centerline Rd. (10) - you can't call any of these highways. The maximum speed limit anywhere on the island is 20 mph, and I haven't found anywhere where you can safely exceed it.  

There were a couple of hairpin turns on 104 that definitely require good tires and probably 4WD if the road were wet. There are probably 4 or 5 of those around the island that drive the need for such vehicles. I have not had to engage the 4WD during this trip, but the roads are completely dry. 

We returned to the resort via rd. 20, and stopped for a while at Cinnamon Bay. I really liked that beach. I swam all the way around the little island near the beach. Some interesting sights at the far end of the island.

So far, I liked the snorkeling at the caye in Trunk Bay the best. All the snorkeling has been nice, but nothing that I would call spectacular There are a lot more branching soft and hard corals than in Hawaii, as well as plume worms and sponges. There are fewer varieties of fish than at WKORV. I'm looking forward to the off-island spots we'll visit Wedenesday and Thursday. The views from some of the lookouts are spectacular, though. The beaches are also very nice. I will definitely come back to St. John in the not too distant future.

One thing to note is that on the north side of the island, my cell phone often connects to providers I don't recognize, such as Lime. If those are on the British Virgin Islands, then you'd be roaming internationally and could get a nasty surprise on your phone bill if you start texting,calling or using the Internet. Maybe others can confirm if you are indeed roaming internationally on these other networks.

I'm about done with the car now. We'll spend another day at various beaches tomorrow, but the rest of the week we'll do a few excursions and will also spend a little time at the resort, so no need for a rental car. Wednesday we'll go to Baths and Caves, which takes from 7:30am to 5:00pm.. Thursday afternoon we'll go on a refresher SCUBA trip, since its been a while since we dove. Friday morning we'll probably do another SCUBA trip and then take it easy in the afternoon. Saturday afternoon we fly back around 2:00 pm on David's favorite airline (not). I still need to figure out what ferry to take to catch a 2:00pm flight. I assume the 11:00am ferry should give enough time, especially with just carry-on luggage.


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## DavidnRobin

Great to hear you are enjoying yourself.
Yes - be careful with roaming - you may get connected via BVI.

Waterlemon Cay?
Blue Cobblestone Beach (on trial to Ramshead)?
Maho Point (from Maho to Frances)?
Lamshure Bay?
Hawknest?
Jumbie?
Honeymoon to Soloman?

I do not know about this time of year - but in June - it is hard to compare to HI as the StJ water is by far warmer, clearer, and calmer.

I spend more time snorkling the Baths that trucking around the boulders - hopefully they will take you to the Indians if you are going to the Caves (they are not close to the Baths)


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## Henry M.

Today we spent most of the day at Jumbie Bay. There were few people there. The water was moving a lot more than at the other beaches - not really waves, but a little bit of breaking at the shoreline. This caused the water to be a lot murkier than elsewhere. The snorkeling was the worst of all the beaches. The reef is basically dead and just a pile of dead coral rubble. There are some soft corals, and a few coral heads to the right of the beach, but basically poor snorkeling. Sitting on the beach was great, though, as was just wading in the water. I like the extra water movement, rather than lake-like still conditions.

All the beaches have superb views, and the water is indeed a few degrees warmer than in Maui. My comments about less than spectacular relate only to the snorkeling, not sitting on the sand, the water and the beautiful views.

Hawksnest was nice too, but I didn't snorkel there. I went all the way up to Waterlemon, but I hurt my foot before the trip and decided not to try to walk the mile it takes to get close to the cay. I can swim, but not walk very far. That one is supposed to be the best snorkel site of all. I guess I'll just have to plan another trip to verify that! 

Same issue with walking to Lameshur, though I did drive to the end of the road, and also walking to Ramshead. 

I find that, no matter whether Maui or St. John is your favorite, you'd be missing out by not visiting the other area. I love both. I probably would not want to live permanently in St. John, but I intend to return many times. I would like living in Maui, since it has a few more trappings of civilization, like a Costco and restaurants that cost less than $20-$30 a plate.both of my kids also want to move there. However, St. John is also a tropical paradise, with less civilization, which is nice to get away from everything from time to time.


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## Henry M.

Today we spent the day off-island. We went to the Baths at Virgin Gorda and the Caves in Norman Island. It was a very nice trip. I really liked the Baths (for Batholiths, not related to bathing). You walk around under these huge volcanic rocks that make up a sort of cave ad maze. It is very impressive. I highly recommend it.

We used Cruz Watersports, the outfit at the Westin. I considered using Bad Kitty, but they add a stop at some beach bars while keeping the same schedule. I preferred to spend more time at the attractions themselves instead of hanging out at the beach. There had an open bar on board anyhow. I wasn't that interested in going to Foxy's, a famous bar on another island.

The Norman Island Caves were interesting, but again, the snorkeling was not what I expected. Much of the coral is dead. I guess I was expecting more like what I've seen in Belize, off Ambergris Key and the barrier reef there. The beaches and above water views are still outstanding, though.

These attractions are in the British Virgin Islands. REMEMBER TO BRING YOUR PASSPORT if you want to do this excursion.


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## DavidnRobin

Hey emuy - for the purpose of scientific correctness - that coral is not dead (at least the ones that tourists aren't trashing - esp at the caves) If you mean looks dead relative to other places - then I understand. The deep coral is hurting/dying due to sea warming - well-reported in the Carib and fact.  Generally (amoung other factors), it is the age of the enviroment for the coral that defines it's fullness and growth.  Even in HI where it has that white coating doesn't mean it is dead.  Hard coral has a growth rate of a about the widthe of a dime per year. I understand other places may have more mature coral (like the southern Caribbean) there is a place called Moreau Gardens down by Union Island that is spectacular.  Check out Tobago Cays (Horseshoe reef) in the Grenadines if you ever can - can only get there by boat.

Glad you enjoyed your trip - I haven't been there during this time, but when we go (June) - and this is easily seen on a NOAA search - the water temp is over 10F higher and visibility is much better than HI (easily) and we go to both. 2 years ago we were at Lamshure and the water temp was 90F.  At the beach at the end of the road there is parking right at the beach - no walking needed. I have great photos and videos (on YouTube) with tons of fish and coral around StJ - merely snorkeling.  At Jumbie I got great photos of eels mating and barracuda - and squid - sorry it wasn't nicer.  Oh yeah - Robin reminded me that there will millions of small sardine like fish with large Tarpins swimming through them creating these clear holes within the small fish (always cool) - I have vids and photos of this.  It reminds me that I really need to go thru these and pull out he good ones.

Too bad you didn't get out to Waterlemon - we usually go by boat versus walking.  It was at Waterlemon where I decided to get an underwater camera after seeing a turtle, ray and barracuda all together in one frame.

I have been to The Baths a few times - we moored outside for a few nites when sailing the BVI back in 1991.  We took Bad Kitty once a few years ago - it is a good boat to go to Virgin Gorda because it is fast and smooth - but prefer bare boat with local friend as we don't need to deal with others - and them with us. But for a distance like that BK is great - they cover more ground than Island Time - White Bay in JVD (Soggy Dollar) is worth seeing but not Foxys IMO (Foxys is not in White Bay).  Everyone should see The Baths once in their life.  The snorkeling outside The Baths is really cool.

They took you to the Caves, but not the Indians - too bad - they are right next to each other.  I have a video of a turtle at the Indians where the water was so clear that it looked as if was floating in space (j-girl and DD and DB were with us iirc) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ufv90FbXCI

White Bay (aerial) - Jost Van Dyke (BVI) - Soggy Dollar (Home of the Original PainKiller)



...you can see why it is called White Bay.


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## Henry M.

I heard about the Indians after I returned from the trip. I should have asked the crew to stop there, since we were so close. The turtle video is pretty nice, but even there you can see the lack of coral as the turtle swims away. I'm not complaining, just relating my impressions. I like it so much here that I want to buy a week here.

There is a lot of dead coral, or rather coral remnants all around. You can see large pieces that were once a living creature and are now just broken off and covered with pink coralline algae. It has been a while since I've been diving to Belize, so perhaps things have changed, but back then, there were many coral varieties growing all over. I do know the difference between living coral and what used to be coral and now looks more like a rock with a pink hue over it. 

I went to see a 1BR unit at Hillside, and I like the BV interiors better. I also ended up walking around a little and perhaps I want to be closer to the hotel amenities. I prefer floating weeks. I will look into acquiring a 2BR EOY BV unit, probably summer season (May-August or so). Fall would also work for me, but I essentially have two of 3.5 months subject to hurricane weather and another bit subject to a lot of rain. 

I saw they are clearing a lot of trees and plants in front of the lower hillside units so there is a better view for people on the first floor. 

I talked to a sales person and she said SVO is considering converting buildings 21-23 to timeshares. They'd likely start at the current prices, but would probably be redone differently than BV. Nothing certain yet, though. The discussions are ongoing between the hotel and timeshare sides of Starwood. Other than that, no real news about SVO.


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## Henry M.

I forgot to mention, perhaps I should have kept on driving on the dirt road to get to Lameshur. I turned around where the paved road ended. I had already spent most of the day at Salt Pond and just wanted to take a brief look at the beach. I didn't know how much further it would be if I kept driving on the dirt road or if it would take me all the way to the beach. 

There were millions of the small fish you mention everywhere I snorkeled. I didn't see any large fish feeding on them, though. There were nowhere near the number and variety of fish I've seen in Belize or some of the better snorkeling spots near Lanai. Even the reef at WKORV had more varieties of fish and greater coral cover than the spots I visited. However, there were more soft corals, sponges and plume worms here, as well as branching corals, like elkhorn coral and fire coral, and many species of conch.

Sailing around here is pretty nice because of all the islands around. It is much more interesting that in Hawaii, where at best you are between there islands (Maui, Lanai and Molokai) that are pretty far apart compared to the islands here.


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## Henry M.

Anybody have an opinion on buying at WSJ to come in November and early December? That is the lowest season at BV, but I'm not sure about the weather. Restaurants shut down in September and October, but by late November hurricane season is just about over. 

BV units seem to be scarce in the resale market. Haven't found any 2BR yet, any season.


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## DavidnRobin

The coral is sparser no doubt than other places (as mention - much has to do with ability for long-term growth).  Older areas (were talking 10000s of years timeline ) have more growth and diversity - and shallow coral gets crunched by storms and unfortunately stupid people (that turtle shot is one of them - it is shallow there and people crunch that coral - you can see it on the edges).  Everything underwater has life on it. Coral growth in USVI is much more developed than HI (even Kauai - the oldest island).   The increased sea temperature is slowly destroying coral in Carib - vast areas coral around StJ  is Nationally protected (Fisherman get busted constantly) and this gets reported on (but few care - yet...), and therefore fish will also be challenged - and then there is the Lion-Fish issue...

Re: Lameshur (guess I should spell it correctly) - you have to drive to very end (VIERS project and alterate trail to Reef Bay).  I have a video (of course...) of the drive that I enjoy watching - always brings me back to a place we love - and the song (we bring an mini RCA for the iPod - everywhere - another reason I rent on STT). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sviOZLCqdcA

There are fish out at Blue Cobblestone/RamsHead (long snorkel from Salt Pond beach) that I have never seen except while diving.  I have never been to Belize, but have dove/snorkeled in Maui/Lanai/Kauai (and Carib as mentioned) - it is different for a multitude of reasons (water temp main one...), but fish population seems more diverse to me in the Carib

There is also a defunct underwater biosphere out there on the way to Lameshur - which someday I will get to.

I like the BV interiors better as well (mentioned pros/cons a few pages back where NaCl-T slammed me - thus my joke, and use of Ignore function), but I prefer the Hillside as mentioned (for us - not for all...).  I like that there are 2 disctinct types of villas for people to choose from - and the float flexibility of BV likely works better for most.  For us - who rarely get to the resort - as mentioned too many times - like the quick get away (as it is hard enough to get our travel buddies going as it is).  In addition, how close the pool/patio/BBQ is from our front door - truly lazy.

I would take whatever a salesperson says with a grain of salt.  It is well-known that they will continue to convert the old hotel buidings to BV villas - as they sell (slowly) the BV phase.  I would doubt they are going to set-up another HOA, and not piggy-back on BV.

Can't help with what BV to buy. If I would buy it would be a 2Bd loft.  Many ads are asking to much - or totally misrepresented (esp true for VG).  However, I have seen some 'bargains' (relatively) go by - not sure if true or not - and make sure you look at the Islandia site (StJ Realtor).

If you like the sailing aspect of BVI - check out St Vincent and the Grenadines - spent 16 days off-season there in 1997 (El Nino year) with just me and my brother (sailor and underwater film photograher at the time) on a 41 ft Beneteau - it was truly amazing and probably best vacation I have ever had (shhhh.... don't tell Robin). 

Thanks again for bringing back memories - we are at 7 weeks away and getting excited by the week (and soon day).  Best.


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## CAK1

I've being going to St John late November for the past 6 years.  The weather is great with no weather problems so fair (rains usually overnight but clears in the morning - which is the perfect time to get rain!) 
The ocean is rougher per the locals but I'm from the northeast so it seems quite tame to me.
The Westin resort is not too crowded unless its Thanksgiving week 
& all the restaurants are open on the island.

Have you checked the TUG website for resale BV & Red Week?


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## tomandrobin

emuyshondt said:


> Anybody have an opinion on buying at WSJ to come in November and early December? That is the lowest season at BV, but I'm not sure about the weather. Restaurants shut down in September and October, but by late November hurricane season is just about over.
> 
> BV units seem to be scarce in the resale market. Haven't found any 2BR yet, any season.



My neighbor owns three weeks at WSJ - One in June and two consecutive weeks in early November. He loves his November weeks and has not had an issue with anything. The restaurants and stores start reopening the first week in November. Plus if you go frequently, you do not need to see/visit all the tourist stuff.


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## tomandrobin

emuyshondt said:


> BV units seem to be scarce in the resale market. Haven't found any 2BR yet, any season.



That is why we upgraded a unit last year. I wanted 2br loft unit and could not find any on the resale market. Plus, by upgrading a unit, I didn't have to deal with the long resale process and get rid of the week I upgraded.....all the while maintaining 5*.


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## DavidnRobin

Islandia from what I have seen has by far the most WSJ TS listings - even more than RW.
2Bd BV (non-loft) - some are unreasonably priced or listed incorrectly (wrong phase), but can always make offer.

http://www.islandiarealestate.com/Details.cfm?mlsid=12-79&type=condo


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## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Islandia from what I have seen has by far the most WSJ TS listings - even more than RW.
> 2Bd BV (non-loft) - some are unreasonably priced or listed incorrectly (wrong phase), but can always make offer.
> 
> http://www.islandiarealestate.com/Details.cfm?mlsid=12-79&type=condo



2 Bedroom Loft was the what we wanted. Only two per building makes them the hardest unit to find.


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## Henry M.

Thanks for the pointer, David. I'll check it out. I saw a few Islandia signs driving around. 

Today we spent more time at Hawksnest Bay. Saw some new coral growing on the damaged reef. Hopefully it will recover. It was a pretty shallow reef, so you could see a lot of things just floating a few inches over the reef. It was a nice beach.

Had dinner at La Tapa. It was a good Spanish restaurant. Met the owner, who is a very nice, long-time St. Johnian.  Not cheap (nothing here is!), but good food. We had the Mahi and a Langostino appetizer. The Mahi was $37 and the appetizer $15 or so. Very tasty.

This is our last evening here. We have to take the 11:00am ferry back to St. Thomas in the morning. It was a great vacation. Al, the beaches we visited were very nice. The trip to the Baths at Virgin Gorda was a highlight of the vacation. 

The resort is very nice. I'm getting a unit here one way or another. I will definitely be coming back at least every other year.

I found people here pretty friendly. I was expecting much rougher experiences, but everyone we met smiled and we felt welcome. I had read so much about poor attitudes that I was very pleasantly surprised. 

I found a car rental was required, at least until I drove to all the main beaches. After that, we did an excursion to the Baths at Virgin Gorda, and used taxis to return to some of our favorite beaches.  It was cheaper than renting, though less flexible. Next time, we may get a car in St. Thomas. I am still undecided about that. Some friends here recommend it, but unless the rental rate is much cheaper, I am not sure that it is worth it for a party of 2 or less. Our local friends claim any car will do, and a 4 WD is not necessary. I would agree if the roads are dry, but any good amount of rain, and you'll be glad you got the 4WD. Renting in St. Thomas is highly influenced by how many people are in your party. The more they are, the better it is to just rent a car in St. Thomas and pay the car ferry fee, rather than pay the Westin ferry rates.


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## tomandrobin

emuyshondt said:


> This is our last evening here. We have to take the 11:00am ferry back to St. Thomas in the morning. It was a great vacation. Al, the beaches we visited were very nice. The trip to the Baths at Virgin Gorda was a highlight of the vacation.



The more you visit, the more your St John vacation will change. The first time, you are more geared to seeing/doing the tourists thing....like The Baths. Your next trip, you'll start looking the "off the beaten path" excursions. 



emuyshondt said:


> The resort is very nice. I'm getting a unit here one way or another. I will definitely be coming back at least every other year.



Yeah....Its that good, at least for us. 



emuyshondt said:


> I found a car rental was required, at least until I drove to all the main beaches. After that, we did an excursion to the Baths at Virgin Gorda, and used taxis to return to some of our favorite beaches.  It was cheaper than renting, though less flexible. Next time, we may get a car in St. Thomas. I am still undecided about that. Some friends here recommend it, but unless the rental rate is much cheaper, I am not sure that it is worth it for a party of 2 or less. Our local friends claim any car will do, and a 4 WD is not necessary. I would agree if the roads are dry, but any good amount of rain, and you'll be glad you got the 4WD. Renting in St. Thomas is highly influenced by how many people are in your party. The more they are, the better it is to just rent a car in St. Thomas and pay the car ferry fee, rather than pay the Westin ferry rates.



There is no "one-size" fits all with the car rental. We have always used O'Connor since we only use the car 3 days on the trip. Mostly cause we always have 1 or 2 resort days and 2 boat days. 

Next May, its only going to be Robin and I on our trip. We are going to rent on St Thomas and take the ferry over to St John. That trip, we plan on spending a lot of time on the East end of the island. Exploring a lot of areas that we have skipped with our big group trips. 

When we go next June, we will probably rent from O'Connor again. We are going with several couples and I suspect we'll be doing more then normal boat days.


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## Henry M.

I agree with there is no one right way to rent that fits everyone. O'Connor sure is easy, but theres a cost to the Westin ferry. I guess if I could find a cheaper car to rent in STT, I might go for it. Jeeps seem to run the same at both locations, at least from the more reputable companies.

I had read here about poor attitudes and sometimes less than friendly treatment from the locals. I never ran into that. The time or two when someone was doing something and was not smiling, everything changed when we were willing to smile first. Everyone we ran into was happy and willing to help if we needed something. 

We'll likely be coming back next year. Maybe around May or June.


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## amundson

*I will add a fishing report for those of you interested.*



amundson said:


> How was the fishing charter you used on St. Thomas?  Do you recommend it?
> 
> I like to fish at least once on my vacations.  This year I was thinking about just doing some inshore, flats-type fishing on St. John.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who contributes to this thread.  I find it very helpful.



I wanted to fish "inshore" as my wife was afraid of big waves, so I first tried Arawak but they guy was on vacation that week.  I couldn't find anyone else who would wade fish or fish very near shore.  We called the swashbucklintour guys, but they did not get back to us for about two weeks.  By the time they did, we had booked another trip.  We went with Double Header.  It is expensive like everything else in St. John.   We kept the cost down by going a half day and it was $600.  I fished with my wife, we fished 2pm to 6pm, and though I booked "inshore" it was really a mile or so from the island on nearby reefs that were 150 to 180 feet deep.  

The fish were plentiful and large.  Larger than I expected... very nice water in this part of the world.  Barracuda, Cubera Snapper, Yellowtail Snapper, Kings, sharks, to name a few of the closer to shore, reef fish.

We had a bit of a problem with sharks taking our catches from us and we lost a few fish that way.   One time we were able to reel in the head of about a 5 to 7 pound yellowtail snapper, the body having been completely chomped off by a shark.  This was a little exciting! 

I don't like to keep a lot of fish, so we threw everything back and kept just one nice yellowtail for supper.  We grilled it with salt, pepper, and a little butter on the new BBQ grills and man was that fish delicious.   Next time, I am going to go a little earlier in my trip and keep enough for two good meals.

Doubleheader was worth it.   I bet you could book a full day trip and find someone else at the resort to split it with you.  Just look for the dork walking around with a rod (me?) on the Westin beach.  Someone will likely be willing to split it with you.  Our guide was Chris, and he fished very hard, making sure we were getting bit and that we had a good time.

I think fishing at the resort COULD be fun.  I saw several large fish on the peer at night.  But they DO NOT ALLOW YOU TO FISH ON THE PEER.  We didn't know and started fishing at about 10:30 PM since nobody was around and there were a few tarpon hanging around.  We had one bite, but before we could really get started security came and kicked us off the peer.  I don't really understand why you couldn't fish on the peer, but I guess it is a liability thing -- fishook in someones eye as they exit the Westin ferry?  Ridiculous really, but anyway, it is too bad as it could be a lot of fun.  Maybe they should have you sign a waiver that makes you responsible for everything you do...

Since you cannot fish from the peer and "inshore" gamefish cannot be kept due to ciguatera poisoning, it is really a judgement call as to whether you even want to bring your own fishing rod.  I love to fish, but might consider just leaving it home and going on one of the charters instead.   I might just hang out with the wife more on the beach, snorkel more, drink more rum?, nah.

I did rent one of the dinghy boats from Cruz Bay watersports (right at the resort) and a friend and I went out and trolled for about 3 hours with spoons and lures.  We only caught small groupers and a lizardfish.  We snorkeled a little bit too.  I would imagine live bait would have worked better as there are tons of fish around the edges of the reefs. They would not bite lures though.  A full day rental is $150.   I didn't have anyway of catching live bait or I would have tried that.

All in all, you do need to wet a line in St. John...


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## DavidnRobin

*Maho Campground Story*

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...ws/8453-the-boy-who-calls-maho-bay-camps-home


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## DavidnRobin

for those interested in keeping up with the Maho story...
http://stjohnsource.com/content/new...ley-selengut-reflects-37-years-maho-bay-camps

5 weeks, 3 days - soon come


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## LisaRex

emuyshondt said:


> I agree with there is no one right way to rent that fits everyone. O'Connor sure is easy, but theres a cost to the Westin ferry.



You could always take taxis and the public ferry from Red Hook to Cruz Bay. No need to use the Westin ferry at all!  A tad inconvenient, but quite a bit cheaper than using the Westin ferry.  

Taxi from airport to Red Hook is $10/pp. Ferry to Cruz Bay is $6 + $2.50 per suitcase.  Taxi from Cruz Bay to WSJ is $5/pp. 

http://www.vinow.com/general_usvi/interisland_ferry/#St. John Passenger Ferry:  Red Hook to Cruz Bay

http://www.vinow.com/stthomas/getting_around_stt/taxi_stt/


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## SLC

*WSJ current retail price ?*

A little off topic but does anyone have any idea what the current retail price (what Starwood offers it for) for a  2 bedroom hillside unit in off season is? (week 35)
We bought ours a decade ago from the developer before we ever heard of TUG.
Just curious.

                                      Sam C.


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## Henry M.

I think the hillside units are sold out. You can only buy Bay Vista from Starwood. 

I didn't write down the prices when I was last there, but for every other year, I think they were something like $15,900 or so (late August to early December) and $20,900 (Last week of April to late August). High was around $28,900. I think this is about 65% of the EY price, so for every year the prices should be around $24,500/32,200/44,500 from low to high season. These are prices for a floating units within each season. Prices are higher if you want to lock in a week and a unit, which is what you get at Hillside. I prefer floating weeks, though. 

I got a list of resale listings from Islandia Real Estate in mid April, if you're interested in seeing what others are asking for their units. PM me if you want it  and I can e-mail it to you. The only 2BR units in Hillside I see, listed for the lowest season, are weeks 45-47 and range in asking price from $18,995 to $29,900.


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## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> You could always take taxis and the public ferry from Red Hook to Cruz Bay. No need to use the Westin ferry at all!  A tad inconvenient, but quite a bit cheaper than using the Westin ferry.
> 
> Taxi from airport to Red Hook is $10/pp. Ferry to Cruz Bay is $6 + $2.50 per suitcase.  Taxi from Cruz Bay to WSJ is $5/pp.
> 
> http://www.vinow.com/general_usvi/interisland_ferry/#St. John Passenger Ferry:  Red Hook to Cruz Bay
> 
> http://www.vinow.com/stthomas/getting_around_stt/taxi_stt/



I did this a couple of times.  I think I would take the WSJ ferry instead over this route (if each person has a check-in bag - like us...) - iirc, they also charge for bags on the taxis, but not really a cost issue - dealing with bags is a drag after hitting the heat/humidity coming off the plane (at least for us soft SFBayAreans - ) If they start-up a constant ferry service in CA (with those new ferries being built) - this may be a good way to go since the distance between STT and CA ferry dock is close (Crown Bay is closer - the USVI Govt is discussing this spot as well).

Certainly the cheapest way to go (travelling light) is the public taxi-ferry-taxi - It would be nicer to have ferry closer to STT.

Based on discussions here and the Carib forum - the desired mode of transportation to WSJ from STT highly depends on #of people, # of days travelling, budget, desire to stay on resort, plans while on StJ, comfortable with driving (Stay Left!), hassle-factor, BV vs VG, sea-sickness - anymore missing here?

For us - YMMV (and likely does...)
1) STT car rental - car barge
2) WSJ ferry - StJ car rental at O'Connor
3) StT taxi - ferry - StJ taxi/car rental


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## polly0014

We have a 2BR Loft reserved in July---(totally lucked into it using options)...
Which building should we "request" at checkin?  I'm not even sure they allow us to request, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to have an idea about where we might want to be...We are travelling with our 2 boys (age 10 and 6) so I would guess proximity to the pool would be preferred. 

Also, how is the drinking water in STJ?  Do you guys recommend buying gallons of water or is this not necessary?

Thanks so much!  I know I'll have more questions as we get closer.  We are so excited, but overwhelmed!  We go to SVV and Harborside pretty often, but this is totally new for us...

-Polly


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## DavidnRobin

SLC said:


> A little off topic but does anyone have any idea what the current retail price (what Starwood offers it for) for a  2 bedroom hillside unit in off season is? (week 35)
> We bought ours a decade ago from the developer before we ever heard of TUG.
> Just curious.
> 
> Sam C.



Hi Sam - are you talking about a 2Bd townhouse or premium for Hillside (VG)?
(this is an important distinction) Are you looking for a valuation of your week?

The SVO/WSJ 'paper' price for Hillside villas will depend on availability of VOIs (TS weeks) returned to inventory due to upgrades (sold by SVO/WSJ), or foreclosures /deed returns due to MF deliquences or discontinue paying MFs (sold by HOA).  The HOA sold off various foreclosed VOIs a year of so ago (to WSJ-VG Owners) - not sure of outcome of this sale - I put in a request for an adjacent week and it was already sold.  The HOA is planning on selling another batch to Owners (or so it was mention in last newsletter).  SVO/WSJ does have some inventory based on my last Owners Update - but mostly 1Bds and studios.  The SVO prices were considerable higher than the HOA prices.

I am not sure either value above is worth focusing on if you are intending to valuate your week to sell.  As mentioned - the resale price is a more realistic valuation, and unfortunately does not look good for low-season 2Bd WSJ VG villas.  Another factor hurting the valuation of 2Bd hillside villas are the 2Bd villas in BV phase that are currently being sold with no end in sight in the short/medium future (they plan to convert more of the hotel to VOIs, and are still selling the others).

Luckily we are Hill-People... and look down and laugh heartedly at the FlatLanders as they do not know what they are missing -


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## jarta

> We have a 2BR Loft reserved in July---(totally lucked into it using options)...
> Which building should we "request" at checkin? I'm not even sure they allow us to request, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to have an idea about where we might want to be...We are travelling with our 2 boys (age 10 and 6) so I would guess proximity to the pool would be preferred.



When you reserve using StarOptions, you make your preference known at the time of reservation.  If you call back to Starwood Owner Services, you can add your preference to your reservation.

IIRR, the 2-br Loft in the BV section requires exactly the same number of StarOptions as the 2-br in BV for a reservation.  The 2-br Townhome is in the VG section.  Does your confirmation really specify a 2-br Loft?   Salty


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## SLC

Hi Sam - are you talking about a 2Bd townhouse or premium for Hillside (VG)?
(this is an important distinction) Are you looking for a valuation of your week?


Thanks for the reply David. I'm not exactly sure which type of unit, specifically unit 3228. We originally purchased it not expecting to ever go back to WSJ. Purchased to trade and we have had some great vacations. Come to find out we really love it in St. John and have gone back 3 times since purchase and are going back this summer. (we have never stayed in the unit we own)

We were one of the lucky people that purchased one of the foreclosures last year at a better time of the year. We are not currently in the market to resell. maybe someday when the TS market picks up. I was just curious as to what the asking price is these days through Starwood.

                                                Sam


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## DavidnRobin

SLC said:


> Hi Sam - are you talking about a 2Bd townhouse or premium for Hillside (VG)?
> (this is an important distinction) Are you looking for a valuation of your week?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply David. I'm not exactly sure which type of unit, specifically unit 3228. We originally purchased it not expecting to ever go back to WSJ. Purchased to trade and we have had some great vacations. Come to find out we really love it in St. John and have gone back 3 times since purchase and are going back this summer. (we have never stayed in the unit we own)
> 
> We were one of the lucky people that purchased one of the foreclosures last year at a better time of the year. We are not currently in the market to resell. maybe someday when the TS market picks up. I was just curious as to what the asking price is these days through Starwood.
> 
> Sam



Hi Sam -
3228 is a Townhouse villa - the current MFs are ~$2400.  I asked because the 2Bd Premium villas (single-floor design) are in B31 and their MFs are similar to the 3Bd pool villas (yikes!).

I am somewhat confused about you saying that you purchased a 2Bd TH (3228, week 35) to use as an exchange - what type exchange?  do you mean via SVN? or another exchange type (II, RCI, etc)?

When you say you have never stayed in your own villa - what villa did you stay in, and how did you get to stay in another villa other than your own?  I asked this because WSJ-VG VOIs are fixed villas and fixed weeks (including check-in day) - we have always stayed in our villa during our weeks (except a few days when our villa was smoked for bees)


----------



## polly0014

jarta said:


> When you reserve using StarOptions, you make your preference known at the time of reservation.  If you call back to Starwood Owner Services, you can add your preference to your reservation.
> 
> IIRR, the 2-br Loft in the BV section requires exactly the same number of StarOptions as the 2-br in BV for a reservation.  The 2-br Townhome is in the VG section.  Does your confirmation really specify a 2-br Loft?   Salty



Hmm...thanks so much for the heads up!  The reservation used 95,700 options--2BR that sleeps 10 it says.  On the phone with Starwood they said "loft, " but I don't see that specified on the ressie...Way bigger than we need actually either way, but it'll work...So I'm not exactly sure what we'll get then.


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## DavidnRobin

polly0014 said:


> Hmm...thanks so much for the heads up!  The reservation used 95,700 options--2BR that sleeps 10 it says.  On the phone with Starwood they said "loft, " but I don't see that specified on the ressie...Way bigger than we need actually either way, but it'll work...So I'm not exactly sure what we'll get then.



Congrats on your SVN exchange - a great villa at a great resort.
(oops - there I go bashing Starwood again <-- inside joke)

I had never noticed that the SOs needed for an SVN exchange into a 2Bd WSJ-BV are the same for a Loft and Standard floor plans.  Yet, the Loft sleeps 10 people and the Standard sleeps 8 people.  So - it looks as if you have a Loft if that is what they told you about occupancy, but it is interesting that the reservation confirmation does not distinguish villa type.  Does it confirm the occupancy of 10 people?  if it states 10, then it will be a Loft which is really sweet.

It is odd that they have the same SO value as the 2Bd Lofts appear to be superior to the 2Bd Standard in both size and occupancy number

The Lofts are really nice - so I would make sure you tell them it is for 10 people as they could switch up on you if it is only 8 people since it appears that these are SO equilvalent villas and that is all they owe you (95700 SO villa)

The upper BV buildings (24-27) are relatively the same distance from the resort pool - so not sure if one building is better than another.  The lower BV buidlings (21-23) are closer to the pool, but not sure if they are open yet.  Check out the WSJ resort map:
http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif
I have never stayed in one, but have seen both - the Lofts are much nicer and roomier - and have views, but does involve stairs as compared to the Standard.

The water is drinkable at WSJ as they have their own system, but we always bring a Brita that we use just for travel (just like we bring our own fitted sheets) and filter the water.  We live in an urban area with great water (Hetch Hetchy), but Robin still insists on filtering our water.  We also buy some water as well when we are there.  We always joke that water and Rum costs about the same on StJ  (not really true...).


----------



## OCsun

*Just returned from WSJ*

It has been three years since we last stayed at our pool villa.  Seeing our villa again was like seeing a long lost loved one.  We did not realize how much we missed the place.  . The villa courtyard and pool resurfacing looked wonderful.  The beaches are as beautiful as ever and the comfort of the Westin was first class.  

One of the two things we will do differently next year is wait to purchase our food at the grocery store around the corner from the Westin.  It seemed to meet all of our needs and prices were very close to what we paid for the groceries on St Thomas.  We can buy meats and fresh items daily. 

The second thing is to pack only a few very comfortable shorts, tee shirts and bathing suits.  We get laid back and lazy on this island.  Nobody wants to dress and go out to dinner - it's just too easy to toss something on the grill, make a salad and grab a cold drink, while the grand kids swim in the pool. :whoopie:

Can you tell we love this place!


----------



## DavidnRobin

OCsun said:


> It has been three years since we last stayed at our pool villa.  Seeing our villa again was like seeing a long lost loved one.  We did not realize how much we missed the place.  . The villa courtyard and pool resurfacing looked wonderful.  The beaches are as beautiful as ever and the comfort of the Westin was first class.
> 
> One of the two things we will do differently next year is wait to purchase our food at the grocery store around the corner from the Westin.  It seemed to meet all of our needs and prices were very close to what we paid for the groceries on St Thomas.  We can buy meats and fresh items daily.
> 
> The second thing is to pack only a few very comfortable shorts, tee shirts and bathing suits.  We get laid back and lazy on this island.  Nobody wants to dress and go out to dinner - it's just too easy to toss something on the grill, make a salad and grab a cold drink, while the grand kids swim in the pool. :whoopie:
> 
> Can you tell we love this place!



Excellent - just 5 weeks left for us - getting more excited by the day.  Robin has been buying new clothes for June - with me of course asking what was wrong with the old ones?  and why do you need 7 pairs of shoes! 

Of course, I need to pick-up a new underwater camera/video as my last one no longer works.  But other than that - I am ready to go.

Made arrangements for Ted (Teds Supper Club) to come to our villa to cook our anniversary dinner.


----------



## SLC

DavidnRobin said:


> Hi Sam -
> 3228 is a Townhouse villa - the current MFs are ~$2400.  I asked because the 2Bd Premium villas (single-floor design) are in B31 and their MFs are similar to the 3Bd pool villas (yikes!).
> 
> I am somewhat confused about you saying that you purchased a 2Bd TH (3228, week 35) to use as an exchange - what type exchange?  do you mean via SVN? or another exchange type (II, RCI, etc)?
> 
> When you say you have never stayed in your own villa - what villa did you stay in, and how did you get to stay in another villa other than your own?  I asked this because WSJ-VG VOIs are fixed villas and fixed weeks (including check-in day) - we have always stayed in our villa during our weeks (except a few days when our villa was smoked for bees)



We have only ever exchanged our week within SVN. We've stayed in other units at WSJ because we booked different weeks( at a different time of year) than what we own.


----------



## Henry M.

DavidnRobin said:


> The upper BV buildings (24-27) are relatively the same distance from the resort pool - so not sure if one building is better than another.  The lower BV buidlings (21-23) are closer to the pool, but not sure if they are open yet.  Check out the WSJ resort map:
> http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif



Buildings 21-23 are still part of the hotel. Those are the ones that will be refurbished and turned into timeshares. When I was there the first half of April, they still had the wood finish that the hotel rooms have, and met someone staying there on a hotel reservation.

I wouldn't worry much about which BV building I got. They are all pretty nice. I'd prefer an upper floor, but it would also not be a critical item. It may be that the lofts are all second floor, with the loft up on the 3rd level. I can't remember for sure.

Here are the various floor plans. The standard 2 BR has two balconies, one off the living room and one off the master BR. This means the master BR also has a much nicer view of the outside. The loft unit only has one balcony on the lower level and smaller windows upstairs, but has more square feet overall. Personally, I'd prefer the standard 2BR in a high floor if I didn't really need to sleep 10. 

I stayed in a third floor unit in building 25 (2533) and liked not having inside stairs to get between the kitchen and my room. It was nice for everything to be on one floor, but then it was just my wife and I. I suppose if it had been more people it might have been nice for the early risers to be able to go downstairs and not wake up the rest of the group. Same if someone wanted to stay up late.


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## jarta

polly0014 said:


> Hmm...thanks so much for the heads up!  The reservation used 95,700 options--2BR that sleeps 10 it says.  On the phone with Starwood they said "loft, " but I don't see that specified on the ressie...Way bigger than we need actually either way, but it'll work...So I'm not exactly sure what we'll get then.



The only 2-br that sleeps 10 is the 2-br Loft in BV.  If the confirmation says that.   That's what you'll get.  The regular 2-br in BV only sleeps 8.  Good trade!  Enjoy!   Salty


----------



## DavidnRobin

SLC said:


> We have only ever exchanged our week within SVN. We've stayed in other units at WSJ because we booked different weeks( at a different time of year) than what we own.



So if I understand correctly... you are original owners at WSJ, but have not stayed in your villa during your week. But have stayed in other villas during other times of the year (which would have to be within your season). I assume you using the Home Resort period for Fixed Owners at 8-10 months out to find a 2Bd TH villa available? And the other times you have used SVN to exchange into other SVN resorts?

Exchanging a WSJ villa via SVN is not a great use of SOs (IMO) - especially before they increased these to 81K SOs (from 67.1K SOs) a few years ago.  The MFs are so high at resorts like WSJ and HRA (and even the HI resorts) that using a SVN exchange is pretty much exchanging downward (unless you are exchanging within HI, or HI to WSJ/HRA).

You are the first person I have heard about that has exchanged their WSJ-VG villa in the Home resort exchange period (8-10 months) for WSJ-VG (and apparently often at that...).  I was always under the impression that this is too difficult - especially when there are have limited villas (2Bd TH) that you can exchange into during the same season.


----------



## polly0014

jarta said:


> The only 2-br that sleeps 10 is the 2-br Loft in BV.  If the confirmation says that.   That's what you'll get.  The regular 2-br in BV only sleeps 8.  Good trade!  Enjoy!   Salty



Yes, it specifically states "sleeps 10".   Yay!  

Thanks for the help answering questions everyone!!  So helpful!  I'm sure we'll have more as we get closer!

-polly


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## tomandrobin

polly0014 said:


> Yes, it specifically states "sleeps 10".   Yay!
> 
> Thanks for the help answering questions everyone!!  So helpful!  I'm sure we'll have more as we get closer!
> 
> -polly



Love the two bedroom lofts at WSJ. They might even be my favorite Starwood unit type at any of their resorts. 

 - And just to note, I am posting that without any prejudice to the view......that would be different.


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## SLC

DavidnRobin said:


> So if I understand correctly... you are original owners at WSJ, but have not stayed in your villa during your week. But have stayed in other villas during other times of the year (which would have to be within your season). I assume you using the Home Resort period for Fixed Owners at 8-10 months out to find a 2Bd TH villa available? And the other times you have used SVN to exchange into other SVN resorts?
> 
> Exchanging a WSJ villa via SVN is not a great use of SOs (IMO) - especially before they increased these to 81K SOs (from 67.1K SOs) a few years ago.  The MFs are so high at resorts like WSJ and HRA (and even the HI resorts) that using a SVN exchange is pretty much exchanging downward (unless you are exchanging within HI, or HI to WSJ/HRA).
> 
> You are the first person I have heard about that has exchanged their WSJ-VG villa in the Home resort exchange period (8-10 months) for WSJ-VG (and apparently often at that...).  I was always under the impression that this is too difficult - especially when there are have limited villas (2Bd TH) that you can exchange into during the same season.



David, You are correct on all points. We've been to Hawaii,Harborside etc.
It just took luck and persistence.
Back to my original question. Any idea what Starwood's asking price for a unit like mine is these days?
                                         Sam


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## DavidnRobin

SLC said:


> David, You are correct on all points. We've been to Hawaii,Harborside etc.
> It just took luck and persistence.
> Back to my original question. Any idea what Starwood's asking price for a unit like mine is these days?
> Sam



I thought this was covered. SVO-WSJ does not sell these unless returned to inventory (via trade-ins).  The best way to find out if there are any of these types for sale (2Bd TH, low season) is to directly call Sales at WSJ.
The resale price is $2-4K if you can find a buyer looking for this week and villa type.


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## Westin5Star

tomandrobin said:


> Love the two bedroom lofts at WSJ. They might even be my favorite Starwood unit type at any of their resorts.
> 
> - And just to note, I am posting that without any prejudice to the view......that would be different.



I agree 100%.  The loft unit is amazing!


----------



## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Of course, I need to pick-up a new underwater camera/video as my last one no longer works.



Bought a Olympus Digital Camera TG-820 - $200 including shipping/tax


----------



## alexadeparis

*Check in days by building for Pool villas and rest of hillside vs. bay vista?*

Ok, I literally read every page of this thread and saw nothing specific about check in days equalling a certain phase or anything like that. I went to WSJ in 2012 and got a hillside 2 bedroom loft unit, so I felt we definitely lucked out, we were stoked! We had no clue before we arrived which phase we were going to be put in.

Bottom line is that we fell in love with the 3 bedroom pool villas (we bought an eoy but rescinded). I already know that building 43 & 44 have the solid walls and hot tubs and want to try to get in there with star options. I already know to say I need to sleep only 8 to try to get those units ( bay vista 3 bedrooms sleep 10).

So, assuming that I want to go in low season, when my anniversary falls, and I want to book a three bedroom unit using SO's, is there a way to try to book a certain check in DAY to ensure or at least give me a better chance at A) ideally ensuring getting in building 43 or 44, or B) at least ensuring I get a pool villa vs a Bay Vista 3 bedroom unit. 

The reason this is important is because we will have a large group as we plan to renew our vows and want to have a home base with private pool and grill and patio etc, which just won't happen in the BV units. And in a perfect world, I would want that solid wall and hot tub, too. Yes, I know I am expecting a lot. I went on islandia's website, hoping I could answer this question, but it seems the pool villas have all 3 check in days, even within the same building (?) so I am hoping those listings are just plain incorrect. 

So, if owners could pipe in with what types of units in which phase have which checkin days, that would help me, but may also help other people looking to narrow their odds to a particular phase or certain type of unit besides pool villas. Unless you are in a studio, (hillside only) it seems like it is hard to figure out where you will be placed on an exchange.

On another note, last time we were there we booked a hotel room to extend our trip one more night at the end and they had us in building 22 , a 2 bedroom 2 floor unit! A considerable upgrade from what I booked (the basic room). We enjoyed it very much but noted that the decor and furnishings were quite dated, probably original to when built, so if they do convert that to timeshares, I don't see how that could be accomplished without spending a considerable amount. 

TIA for your help!


----------



## LisaRex

According to the Check-in Days chart at MyStarCentral, both phases have all 3 check-in days. 

Both times I've done an SVN exchange, I've been placed in a 2 bdrm loft.  The first time, I was told upfront that I'd get a loft.  The second time, I booked a regular 2 bdrm.  The reservation agent divulged, by process of elimination, what phase I was reserving, even though they're not supposed to. However, later they changed my reservation to a 2 bdrm loft.  I found out only by looking closely at the confirmation they sent shortly before we arrived.

As an exchanger, if you request a 3 bdrm, the only thing guaranteed is that you'll get a 3 bdrm.  Even if you do get booked in a 3 bdrm in the building of your choice, you may get bumped to another building, and you'll have no recourse.


----------



## DavidnRobin

As mentioned - both phases ave Fri, Sat, and Sun check-in days.  Be aware that (for the most part) the 3Bd pool villas are fixed weeks with fixed check-in days, and do not float like the BV phase villas.


----------



## fmzip

We just back from our marriage/honeymoon in St John. We stayed for two weeks this year, renting a huge villa yet again.

During our stay, a friend of ours suggested that if we love the island and plan to keep coming back that we should consider a timeshare. Fortunately, I found this forum today as I just contacted the Westin directly as well.

SO from what I've read, it's best not to buy direct, correct? Still trying to understand what these points are all about as it's a bit confusing. I read the FAQ but I am still confused!.

Ideally, I think we'd like to get two weeks. One week is just to short in St John. As it is just my wife and I, should we just get a Studio? The townhouses look to be more our style. The seclusion and privacy is more our style than the resort area. 

Besides Islandia, are there other places we should be looking for listings? Trying to get a rough idea of what we should expect to pay for 2 weeks in late march or mid-late April. AM I also understanding the fees correctly, if they are listed at $3000 annually for example, we'd be responsible for 1/52 or 1/26th of this? Are there any other fees?


----------



## tomandrobin

fmzip said:


> We just back from our marriage/honeymoon in St John. We stayed for two weeks this year, renting a huge villa yet again.
> 
> During our stay, a friend of ours suggested that if we love the island and plan to keep coming back that we should consider a timeshare. Fortunately, I found this forum today as I just contacted the Westin directly as well.
> 
> SO from what I've read, it's best not to buy direct, correct? Still trying to understand what these points are all about as it's a bit confusing. I read the FAQ but I am still confused!.
> 
> Ideally, I think we'd like to get two weeks. One week is just to short in St John. As it is just my wife and I, should we just get a Studio? The townhouses look to be more our style. The seclusion and privacy is more our style than the resort area.
> 
> Besides Islandia, are there other places we should be looking for listings? Trying to get a rough idea of what we should expect to pay for 2 weeks in late march or mid-late April. AM I also understanding the fees correctly, if they are listed at $300 annually for example, we'd be responsible for 1/52 or 1/26th of this? Are there any other fees?


 
Islandia is your best source for WSJ listings. Redweek is also a good resale/rental source. 

I do agree that 1 week is not enough, but with my work schedule, I am stuck with 7-10 day trips.


----------



## alexadeparis

fmzip said:


> SO from what I've read, it's best not to buy direct, correct? Still trying to understand what these points are all about as it's a bit confusing. I read the FAQ but I am still confused!.
> 
> Ideally, I think we'd like to get two weeks. One week is just to short in St John. As it is just my wife and I, should we just get a Studio? The townhouses look to be more our style. The seclusion and privacy is more our style than the resort
> 
> AM I also understanding the fees correctly, if they are listed at $3000 annually for example, we'd be responsible for 1/52 or 1/26th of this? Are there any other fees?



If you want to buy a studio unit on the hillside, you will have to buy resale, they sold out of those long ago. You want two peak time weeks, so expect to pay top dollar. If you ever plan on having kids you may want to rethink the studio and get a one bedroom (sleeps 4) or two bedroom (varies). Try to buy the consecutive weeks in the same unit so you don't have to move mid stay. Also fixed weeks are the same week of the year every year so make sure you can always take time off then. Two weeks sound good now, but will you always want two weeks even after going ten times? Think hard. 

Make sure to read all the newbie stickys. The annual maintenance fees you see in ads are per interval, so if it says $3,000 annual and you want two weeks it will cost you $6,000 per year. And those costs aren't static, they increase yearly, so think hard. A timeshare can be a burden if it no longer fits your budget or your vacation needs and they are hard to sell. Become a member and look on the for sale ads. However, westin St. John (WSJ) is a very desirable timeshare, but it still is by no means an investment. Read all you can before you buy, and don't buy until the haze of this vacation wears off.


----------



## fmzip

Thanks for the great reply.

I can see that this really doesn't make much sense to me at first glance but I will continue to read on. I'd rather rent a house of my own instead for the cost of a two/three bedroom timeshare. 

There must be something I am missing here as to why people buy timeshares on St John, I am definitely not seeing the benefit. The Westin is a nice establishment but certainly not the most fabulous resort on the planet so what are the factors that draws one in to buy a timeshare here?



alexadeparis said:


> If you want to buy a studio unit on the hillside, you will have to buy resale, they sold out of those long ago. You want two peak time weeks, so expect to pay top dollar. If you ever plan on having kids you may want to rethink the studio and get a one bedroom (sleeps 4) or two bedroom (varies). Try to buy the consecutive weeks in the same unit so you don't have to move mid stay. Also fixed weeks are the same week of the year every year so make sure you can always take time off then. Two weeks sound good now, but will you always want two weeks even after going ten times? Think hard.
> 
> Make sure to read all the newbie stickys. The annual maintenance fees you see in ads are per interval, so if it says $3,000 annual and you want two weeks it will cost you $6,000 per year. And those costs aren't static, they increase yearly, so think hard. A timeshare can be a burden if it no longer fits your budget or your vacation needs and they are hard to sell. Become a member and look on the for sale ads. However, westin St. John (WSJ) is a very desirable timeshare, but it still is by no means an investment. Read all you can before you buy, and don't buy until the haze of this vacation wears off.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*StJ Fish Identification*

Bump...

Great site for USVI fish identification, and other snorkel-related info.

http://www.snorkelstj.com/index.html

countdown - 21 days...


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> countdown - 21 days...



Nice.....Wish we were heading back soon. 

Last weekend, we locked in our 2 bedroom loft for May 10th and we have our July 19th week for 2014 locked in too. In July, we can call to get our third week locked in for the July 2014 trip.


----------



## LisaRex

fmzip said:


> There must be something I am missing here as to why people buy timeshares on St John, I am definitely not seeing the benefit. The Westin is a nice establishment but certainly not the most fabulous resort on the planet so what are the factors that draws one in to buy a timeshare here?



I, too, love renting homes when I vacation, and have stayed in some incredibly nice homes.  There will definitely always be a place for that in my travels. 

However, timesharing also has its unique perks, because it offers a nice hybrid between a private home and a hotel resort.   You still get a lot of space to spread out, your own private bedroom and bath, a fully-equipped kitchen, bbqs, washer/dryer, private lanai, etc, but paired with the amenities of a resort -- on-site restaurants and bars, kids' clubs, tennis courts, on-site car rental, on-demand taxis, gorgeous pools with poolside service, and clean, dry towels whenever you want one.  

WSJ is also fairly unique in that rental rates (during the winter, when I want to travel there) are significantly higher than maintenance fees.  So for people who buy at WSJ, the break-even point is much narrower than at other locations where rental rates are very close to MFs. 

IF I were to buy another timeshare, it would be at WSJ.


----------



## DavidnRobin

fmzip said:


> Thanks for the great reply.
> 
> I can see that this really doesn't make much sense to me at first glance but I will continue to read on. I'd rather rent a house of my own instead for the cost of a two/three bedroom timeshare.
> 
> There must be something I am missing here as to why people buy timeshares on St John, I am definitely not seeing the benefit. The Westin is a nice establishment but certainly not the most fabulous resort on the planet so what are the factors that draws one in to buy a timeshare here?



Just saw this.  As an owner of 2Bd TH Hillside (VG) villa at WSJ (and lover of StJ) - a few things. For me... (aka IMO) - I would not buy a studio; at a minimum I would buy a 1Bd even if it is only 2 people.  These reasons have been discussed, also discussions around whether BV or VG section - and there are many diverse opinions on this.  As usual, much comes down to what matters to the individuals traveling.

Certainly StJ is not for everyone, and the same hold true for WSJ.  Why buy or rent WSJ - versus renting a villa on StJ?  Again, the opinions will vary.  No doubt, in most cases, these are better than staying in the major hotels (Caneel, Westin {hotel-part}), but mainly for the reasons that people here what in TSs over hotel stays for long-term stays.  {Not saying that Caneel, or WSJ are not great places to stay - esp w/ $$$ - just by comparison}

As to WSJ vs. StJ villa - again it comes down to many factors around expectations.  We like the consistency, lack of hassle, and the known expectations of vacationing in our villa and at the resort.  Since I am pretty much responsible for vacation - I am very happy (nowadays) going to the same places/resorts - which explains our SVO TS vacations - yes, I have become boring... but this causes less stress for me. (so purely selfish reasons...)

I follow many of the villas on StJ - mainly because most blogs are RE and rental oriented (and if I hit the Lottery - I am ready...) and I keep up on StJ news.  There are certainly fantastic villas on StJ - some less expensive and some more (you generally get what you pay for...).  I already own WSJ - so I am not going to change, but if I didn't and I were to find a great villa that fits our needs (low hassle, and what we want - like AC in the bedroom, a view, location, easy in/out...), and at a good cost - I would be all over it.  But remember that WSJ-VG MFs have gone up 50% since I bought in 2006 (also the villas/buildings/resort have been extensively remodeled) - so not to long ago it was considerably less expensive.  Also, BV has been built creating more availability.  Also, having fixed weeks - it forces me to plan and take the vacation that in the past I would put off to the last minute (or not take) if I didn't have that commitment (selfish AND lazy). This is the only thing that ran true from the TS sales spiel.

I have recently gotten information for 2 different groups (n=2, 4) for StJ villa stays (too late for them to rent from an owner at WSJ).  In looking at availability and prices - definitly the larger the travel party the better the villa (more for the $/person).  For just 2 people it becomes harder to find adequate villas and locations.  Certainly they exist, but the best villas for the most part cater to parties of 6-10.

There are a lot of great vacation villas on StJ, and some for less $/day that seem to be quite nice - but WSJ is also very nice.  It is certainly not a dichotomy (one is better than the other) - as it comes down to individual factors.

and then there is always the lottery... of course, I fail to buy tickets.

added - it appears that LisaR and I (once again) - share the same idea and timing.


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> Nice.....Wish we were heading back soon.
> 
> Last weekend, we locked in our 2 bedroom loft for May 10th and we have our July 19th week for 2014 locked in too. In July, we can call to get our third week locked in for the July 2014 trip.



Nice.
Hopefully, we will run into each other again someday.

I just got a new underwater camera/video for the trip - Olympus TG-820
$200 (incl shipping and tax) from 1SaleADay.com. Can't wait to use it.
(oops - this is not meant to be an endorsement - just that my last Olympus failed {my fault}, and Amazon wanted ~$260...)

There was a major violent storm last week - the videos were wild (I follow a StJ photographer on FB).  I hear the road to Coral Bay is in danger of being undermined - hopefully it holds up for the next 5 weeks as it appears it will not be repaired for a while (typical USVI speed).


----------



## fmzip

can I get a link to the videos you mentioned?

I think we will stick to the villa rentals. We are more into the privacy than the resort theme. For the money, I'd rather rent a multi-million dollar home each year and not be tied potentially for life to a timeshare.


----------



## LisaRex

fmzip said:


> can I get a link to the videos you mentioned?
> 
> I think we will stick to the villa rentals. We are more into the privacy than the resort theme. For the money, I'd rather rent a multi-million dollar home each year and not be tied potentially for life to a timeshare.



Sounds like the best plan for your travel style. I've been renting from VRBO for a decade now, and have been very happy with the rentals.


----------



## DavidnRobin

fmzip said:


> can I get a link to the videos you mentioned?



These are videos on FaceBook - so you need to Friend them.  Some videos are likely on YouTube.  The major part of the storm was late at night. Centerline road is becoming severely undermined - stories of this are reported on various online news blogs.

If you come across StJ villas that are magnificent and inexpensive to rent - let us know - I would be interested for others.  I have seen a mix of good and bad reviews.


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ going solar*

This was discussed in Phil/Bob's letter to Owners a while back.

"The alliance will begin with three properties, including the installation of a 1.3 megawatt (MW) solar array at the Westin St. John in the U.S. Virgin Islands where NRG will build, own and operate the project."

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=121544&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=1822173&highlight=


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## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> The major part of the storm was late at night. Centerline road is becoming severely undermined - stories of this are reported on various online news blogs.



Photo in StJ Tradewinds
http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...-recent-rains-worsen-weakened-centerline-road


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## DavidnRobin

14 days and counting - getting psyched!!!

Drive to Liss Lucy's (from Cemetery - and almost ended up there by a Water Truck collision at ~2:25).  If all of a sudden coming across a Water Truck (or Cement or Dump Truck) bothers you - someone else should be driving. Stay Left! my friend 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h9Rcc9th_VM


----------



## ferndale

15 days!!  This will be our first trip to enjoy our new 3bed pool villa!!  We will be available for drinks and dinner any night except tues (night dive), and Thurs (all day dive to wreck of the Rhone).    I will pm you my cell number David!! Let me know when you want to come enjoy pupu's, drinks and whatever comes off the grill that night!!


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## DavidnRobin

ferndale said:


> 15 days!!  This will be our first trip to enjoy our new 3bed pool villa!!  We will be available for drinks and dinner any night except tues (night dive), and Thurs (all day dive to wreck of the Rhone).    I will pm you my cell number David!! Let me know when you want to come enjoy pupu's, drinks and whatever comes off the grill that night!!



Those pool villas are sweet - wish I knew more people that would want to travel to StJ from SF.
I sent our info via PM - and our photos are on the SVO people thread in case you run into us on the island (but picture us salty, sandy, burnt and partially soaked in rum).
I dove The Rhone in 1991 while sailing the BVI... be interested in hearing about it. I suppose you have to check into Sopers Hole than cut across the channel (bumpy) unless they have a dive before that and go around the backside of Tortola (we dove something called The Dogs iirc which was cool), and then head back across the island chain.

I am thinking of a sail charter just to sail and snorkel around (I miss that) - there's a few charters - so if anyone has recommendation?


----------



## Henry M.

Just as a point of reference, my wife was able to book a 2BR in BV for next year's Memorial Day week (May 24-31) this morning. We own a Platinum 2BR float unit in Bay Vista. Can't wait to get there!

The agent did mention that it becomes increasingly difficult, even for owners of St. John, to book weeks later in the summer. Not sure if we just lucked out since we didn't call in at exactly 9:00 am at 12 month mark, which was a week ago. 

The agent checked for availability October, November and December this year, and nothing was available for a 7 night stay.


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## DavidnRobin

They moved Labor Day to May?  Those USVI folks sure are crazy... 

Have you looked at the SVN availability calendar on MSC?
Added - there appears to be no villa that has 7 consecutive days for WSJ from Oct-Dec (yet) in the SVN Finder on MSC - *I did see 7 days in Feb (22-28) 2014 - for those looking - that is high-season (hurry)*

6 days away...


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## lizap

Since you book a year out and don't own there, I assume you used II?  



emuyshondt said:


> Just as a point of reference, my wife was able to book a 2BR in BV for next year's Labor Day week (May 24-31) this morning. We own a Platinum 2BR float unit in Bay Vista. Can't wait to get there!
> 
> The agent did mention that it becomes increasingly difficult, even for owners of St. John, to book weeks later in the summer. Not sure if we just lucked out since we didn't call in at exactly 9:00 am at 12 month mark, which was a week ago.
> 
> The agent checked for availability October, November and December this year, and nothing was available for a 7 night stay.


----------



## DavidnRobin

lizap said:


> Since you book a year out and don't own there, I assume you used II?


They own there - it says that in their post. They booked 1 year out (Memorial Day 2014)


----------



## lizap

Completely missed the Bay Vista part.  I was hoping-maybe it is possible to get here after all...




DavidnRobin said:


> They own there - it says that in their post. They booked 1 year out (Memorial Day 2014)


----------



## DavidnRobin

lizap said:


> Completely missed the Bay Vista part.  I was hoping-maybe it is possible to get here after all...



SVN Calendar on MSC shows Feb22-28 in 2014 open (8 months out)... Call SVN Owner Services if you have SOs available


----------



## DavidnRobin

*A Limited-Time Offer from the Virgin Grand Villas StJ Condominium Owners Assoc.*

just saw this... Unfortunately we do not have a PC with us right now at WSJ - so can't see villa offers.
*****

Dear Virgin Grand Villas Owner,

Greetings from your Board of Directors! We are pleased to announce an Owner resale program which will allow Owners like you the ability to purchase Association-owned timeshare weeks. As you know, over the past few years a number of Owners have failed to pay their maintenance fees. As a result, these Owners were denied the use of the resort and their timeshare weeks were eventually transferred to the Association. The Association now owns approximately 73 timeshare weeks. 

As an Owner, you are being offered the opportunity to purchase an Association-owned timeshare week at a substantially reduced cost. This offer is subject to the following terms:
Timeshare weeks are offered on a first come, first served basis. Please visit mystarcentral.com, “Your Owners Association” on the left side of the screen. Then click on “ownership opportunities” on the right side of your screen. This will take you to a listing of available timeshare weeks, associated price and instructions. If you own weeks at other resorts, please select the link for your Virgin Grand Villas timeshare week and you will be directed to the resale offer for this resort. Owners who are interested in purchasing a timeshare week must submit a request to purchase as detailed on the website.Once the submit button is clicked, an offer will be forwarded to us for submission. If you wish to only make an inquiry, please use the email address stated below.
Qualified Requests to purchase available timeshare weeks will be processed in the order received. A purchase contract and related disclosure documents will be mailed to owners with further instructions. An initial deposit of 50% of the purchase price will be required at time of returning the executed purchase contract.
Requests will only be deemed as Qualified Requests if the person submitting the request is an Owner in good standing with no outstanding balances due to the Association.
Timeshare weeks offered by the Association will be automatically enrolled in the Starwood Vacation Network (“SVN”).
Timeshare Weeks offered by the Association do not count toward SVN Elite status and may not participate in the SPG Conversion Program (exchanging the timeshare week for SPG or Starpoints). The Elite and SPG Conversion programs are funded by the Developer and are not available for this Association resale program.
This offer is limited to timeshare weeks owned by this Association.
The Association is not offering to take back any timeshare weeks. This is an offer to resell timeshare weeks already owned by the Association.
Please note that this is not a public offering but a limited term internal offer to Owners. This offer begins June 18, 2013 and ends July 17, 2013. Please note that the Association website will only be active beginning on June 18, 2013 at 12:00 P.M. EDT, until July 17, 2013 at 4:00 P.M. EDT. Any offers received before the offical starting time and date will not be considered. Should you have any questions regarding this information, for the fastest response time, please email us at 00svo-resaleoffer@starwoodvo.com. 

Sincerely, 
St. John Condominium Owners Association 
Board of Directors


----------



## LisaRex

I'd love to know what prices they are offering these VOIs for.  This is a great win-win for the owners and the resort.


----------



## LisaH

LisaRex said:


> I'd love to know what prices they are offering these VOIs for.  This is a great win-win for the owners and the resort.



Probably most are smaller units (studio/1BR) in off season...Will find out on Tuesday!


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaH said:


> Probably most are smaller units (studio/1BR) in off season...Will find out on Tuesday!



The 18th is Tues? Gotta love vacation in StJ...

We will be in the BVI on Tues.  Last time I tried to get my villa for week25 - and someone beat me to it.  iirc -$8500 (probably in this thread somewhere...)
Guy in opposite villa to ours in B33 - just paid $4500 per week foe weeks 23-24 adjacent.


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## ocdb8r

*SVO Sale*

First, a plea for where I might find something that outlines the differences in the 3 bedroom pool villas based on unit number.  I know some have a real wall upstairs and some don't.  Some have a jacuzzi next to the pool and some don't.  Not sure of any other differences.  Is there any one place to see this?  I found some threads but not enough to make sure I am clear what I may be buying.

Second, below is what they are charging for the VOI's being re-sold by the association.  I was surprised at the number of good weeks available...and at some of the prices.  I won't list all the weeks unless someone asks (and many are likely already gone) but I thought the price points would be a topic of interest.  These are all in the Hillside section (only seciton I am an owner in - was there a concurrent Bay Vista sale?). *NEVERMIND, I found a good thread!  Love TUG!*

*Studio*
Gold Plus - $500 + $1300 closing costs
Platinum - $2500 + $1300 closing costs
Platinum Plus - $8000 + $1700 closing costs

*1 Bedroom*
Gold Plus - $1000 + $1300 closing costs
Platinum - $5000 + $1300 closing costs
Platinum Plus - $12,000 + $1700 closing costs

*2 Bedroom*
Gold Plus - $5000 + $1300 closing costs
Platinum - $8000 + $1700 closing costs
Platinum Plus - None available

*3 Bedroom*
Gold Plus - $7000 + $1700 closing costs
Platinum - $15,000 + $1700 closing costs
Platinum Plus - None available


----------



## ajb116

ocdb8r said:


> First, a plea for where I might find something that outlines the differences in the 3 bedroom pool villas based on unit number.  I know some have a real wall upstairs and some don't.  Some have a jacuzzi next to the pool and some don't.  Not sure of any other differences.  Is there any one place to see this?  I found some threads but not enough to make sure I am clear what I may be buying.
> 
> Second, below is what they are charging for the VOI's being re-sold by the association.  I was surprised at the number of good weeks available...and at some of the prices.  I won't list all the weeks unless someone asks (and many are likely already gone) but I thought the price points would be a topic of interest.  These are all in the Hillside section (only seciton I am an owner in - was there a concurrent Bay Vista sale?). *NEVERMIND, I found a good thread!  Love TUG!*
> 
> *Studio*
> Gold Plus - $500 + $1300 closing costs
> Platinum - $2500 + $1300 closing costs
> Platinum Plus - $8000 + $1700 closing costs
> 
> *1 Bedroom*
> Gold Plus - $1000 + $1300 closing costs
> Platinum - $5000 + $1300 closing costs
> Platinum Plus - $12,000 + $1700 closing costs
> 
> *2 Bedroom*
> Gold Plus - $5000 + $1300 closing costs
> Platinum - $8000 + $1700 closing costs
> Platinum Plus - None available
> 
> *3 Bedroom*
> Gold Plus - $7000 + $1700 closing costs
> Platinum - $15,000 + $1700 closing costs
> Platinum Plus - None available


Would love to be able to get these deals! Too bad I am not an WSJ owner yet!


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## DavidnRobin

Here goes... Page 1


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## DavidnRobin

Page 2


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## DavidnRobin

Page 3


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## Carolyn

What's up with those closing costs??


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## Ken555

Carolyn said:


> What's up with those closing costs??



Welcome to the USVI.


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## Politico

Are these really all fixed weeks or does WSJ have seasons like other resorts?


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## DavidnRobin

Their fixed (incl check-in day), but they can float (rare) within a season at 8-10 months out.

There are a few valuable weeks (probably gone already...) - surprised that the people who owned these couldn't deal with them - but good opportunity for some owners (not me). And great for the HOA...

Interesting that the proposed MF is about same - that is a good sign.


----------



## jarta

Politico said:


> Are these really all fixed weeks or does WSJ have seasons like other resorts?



Fixed weeks for older Hillside or VG phase.  Mandatory (StarOptions) on resale.

Float weeks (3 seasons) for newer BV phase.  Voluntary (no StarOptions) on resale.

No units at WSJ are lockoffs.  The weeks for sale are in the older (but renovated) Hillside or VG phase.   Salty


----------



## SMHarman

Find a friendly WSJ owner and they could buy and flip to you?
Another 1700 in closing but still could be worth it?

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Carolyn

Ken555 said:


> Welcome to the USVI.



I own 2 weeks at WSJ but have never paid those high closing costs.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Carolyn said:


> I own 2 weeks at WSJ but have never paid those high closing costs.



Currently, approximately closing costs are $525 if you use a USVI closing company (or lawyer) - advised... (IMO)
The cost may also include property taxes (?) and other fees (perhaps?) - but it is the cost of doing business - so incorporate into purchase cost (which is soon dwarfed by MFs...).
They are cheaper resales than some of these...


----------



## DavidnRobin

*From On-StJohn: Renovations at Westin, but hotel to stay*

http://www.on-stjohn.com/2013/06/19/renovations-at-westin-but-hotel-to-stay/

The Westin Resort will start renovations of its six poolside and beachside buildings in August, part of a $12 million project that’s expected to take until next spring to complete, but, they will come back online as hotel rooms, not vacation ownership timeshares.

Because of the renovations, seasonal layoffs may extend into high season (owner Starwood Hotels and Resorts says that’s yet to be determined) and the number of hotel rooms available will be down through the winter, though the Westin won’t renovate all six buildings at once, minimizing the impact on rooms available.

Starwood also tells us if you’re staying at the Westin this winter, you shouldn’t be disrupted by the work.

The Westin Resort & Villas converted some of its hillside buildings to vacation ownership villas a few years ago, about 150 in total.

In addition to the 96 poolside and beachside rooms, there are still another 76 hotel rooms in lower hillside buildings, and we’re told the Westin has no plans to end the hotel room side of the resort.

It’s a great property. We’re glad to hear it’s not completely converting to ownership.


----------



## czar

@DavidnRobin - thanks for the tip on Amalie Car rental. Reservation set, and "You will receive compl. pick up/drop off at the airport."


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> @DavidnRobin - thanks for the tip on Amalie Car rental. Reservation set, and "You will receive compl. pick up/drop off at the airport."



No problem - they were excellent once again.  I met the new Owner (Amy) and she plans to keep same business model (new cars with a slight premium).

Took ~30mins from STT/RedHook. $4 for car barge lot (going... no charge returning) - car barge lot is right next to passenger ferry.  $30 one-way (only do one-way as you do not want to wait on the return).  Car barges are continiously coming and going.  About 20min to cross StT-StJ channel and then about 5min to WSJ.

Very easy...

The more I rent on StT and take car barge - the more I am convinced this is the way to go under most circumstances.  Especially if you are staying in the VG villas, and traveling with 4 people.  I could easily run to the store (prefer StarFish over StJ Market - IMO) and pick-up something quick and get back in no time.  Also, freedom to go to a beach - check out conditions and go to another (or both).  It is ~17 minutes from our villa to Trunk Bay - that savings of time is worth a lot to us.  The flexibility makes renting an easy decision - even if the car is not used every day.  Heck, when the shuttles aren't around - I will drive down to the resort.

Another thing I heard - is that when the seas are high - some people on the WSJ ferry were getting wet depending on how full it is (and some sea-sick...) - I heard this a few times (iirc somebody in the ferndale party experienced this...).  The car barge is a large ship - and while it rocks - no where near the WSJ ferry and a much shorter ride.


----------



## czar

Why are the staroptions charts different for BV and Hillside?  What would I expect to pay for a resale 2br or 3br BV float weeks 19-33?


----------



## SMHarman

czar said:


> Why are the staroptions charts different for BV and Hillside?  What would I expect to pay for a resale 2br or 3br BV float weeks 19-33?


They are two different phases.  Same as there are two charts for Maui.
Platinum Plus will command a large premium but you are looking at Platinum.
There are a couple listed here.
http://www.remaxstjohnrealestate.com/st_john_timeshares_for_sale.php
http://www.remaxstjohnrealestate.com/details.php?list_number=12-264
http://www.remaxstjohnrealestate.com/details.php?list_number=12-263
Also here...
http://www.stjohncondos.com/buysell.htm
Also here...
https://www.omvillas.com/Villas-for-Sale.html
And redweek aslo has one up for $21k
http://www.redweek.com/resort/P200-the-westin-st-john-bay-vista-villas#sales

There is another site somewhere in this thread that others recommend that has many listings


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> Why are the staroptions charts different for BV and Hillside?  What would I expect to pay for a resale 2br or 3br BV float weeks 19-33?



Because when they built BV they changed the seasons to better coincide with demand.  They also increased the SOs for the VGV phase to better align with BV - for example they increased our SOs from 67.1K to 81K SOs. I am sure this was discussed somewhere in this thread back then.  I think this is the only instance where SVO altered SO assignment

Resale BV does not come with SOs.
BV has 3 types - 3Bd, 2Bd Loft, and standard 2Bd.

Not sure what the resale cost is for these - they are still in active sales.
There is no ROFR.


----------



## Ken555

SMHarman said:


> They are two different phases.  Same as there are two charts for Maui.



Note all Hawaii SVN properties have exact same value per unit. There may be three different properties, but they have the same StarOption cost and so may easily be considered similar value. It's much more confusing when there are different values for units at the same resort, such as WSJ, even though there are two different HOAs.


----------



## DavidnRobin

SMHarman said:


> They are two different phases.  Same as there are two charts for Maui.
> 
> There is another site somewhere in this thread that others recommend that has many listings



As Ken said - same seasons in HI.  I am not sure about SVV and SVR resorts - if the have same seasons or not - or is WSJ the only one.

The other is Islandia Realty on StJ - they have many WSJ TS weeks for sale.
The resale price of BV will be interesting to watch as the resort sells out, and MFs increase (eg SVO stops subsidizing).


----------



## SMHarman

DavidnRobin said:


> As Ken said - same seasons in HI.  I am not sure about SVV and SVR resorts - if the have same seasons or not - or is WSJ the only one.


The SO Value chart indicates that the Bella phase of SVV may be different.
'Weeks in season available for Bella phase Home Resort Owners to reserve in the Bella phase may differ from the weeks in seasons required to access the same phase for other Starwood Vacation Network members.'
I see Atlantis splits the difference of the WSJ with a Wk 17 end of P+.  WSJ being 15 and 18 (which is interesting to note if you are trying to trade in with StarOptions.



DavidnRobin said:


> The other is Islandia Realty on StJ - they have many WSJ TS weeks for sale.
> The resale price of BV will be interesting to watch as the resort sells out, and MFs increase (eg SVO stops subsidizing).


http://www.islandiarealestate.com/condo.cfm?Attributes.Type=Timeshare
How much is the subsidy, the MF there is pretty out there already!


----------



## czar

Is there any way we would be able to see a Hillside unit when we visit?


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> Is there any way we would be able to see a Hillside unit when we visit?



Which type?  During our Owners Update they took us to see a 3Bd pool villa, and I saw them showing others a 1Bd and studio villas.  I have photos of our 2Bd TH villa.


----------



## czar

Well I loved St croix when I visited and think I'll like St. John even better. Since we'll be staying in BV would like to see a 2 or 3 br hillside unit if possible. I've never gone on an owners update before. Since I own other SVO weeks, is that possible?


----------



## Henry M.

The sales people will want to talk to you, no matter who you are! 

The concierge at the reception lobby will do his best to get you to sign for an update, or you can walk down to the sales office and make an appointment. You can then ask the sales person about what you want to see.

If you don't want to take a tour, you might be able to get someone at the reception lobby to let you see a room. I haven't tried at WSJ, but at other resorts you can ask the front desk if they will let you peek at an unoccupied unit, and they will often oblige. Someone will either go with you, or sometimes they'll give you a key.


----------



## carpie99

I am closing on 3428 Week 28 EY this month.  Looking forward to WSJ every year for the next 30+ years!

FYI ... My closing fees were $750 to the closing attny and $516 to the St. John Goverment

I found my timeshare on Timeshare Broker Services.


----------



## DavidnRobin

carpie99 said:


> I am closing on 3428 Week 28 EY this month.  Looking forward to WSJ every year for the next 30+ years!
> 
> FYI ... My closing fees were $750 to the closing attny and $516 to the St. John Goverment



Congrats - welcome to B34... and becoming one of the Hill People.


----------



## carpie99

I have stayed in both BV and Hillside and definitely prefer Hillside (I love having my car right outside my door).


----------



## DavidnRobin

as do we - the ability to come and go quickly is worth the cost of the rental car


----------



## czar

I'm looking forward to comparing both units. At our kids' ages, we chose BV because they like the big pools at resorts and wanted to be closer. But that 3BR with pool sounds tempting


----------



## DavidnRobin

*ZoZo's*

For those who care - ZoZo's is leaving Gallows Point and moving to Caneel Bay (taking over The Sugar Mill). Will be open in November (supposedly).
I hope the sunset view is as great. At least there be better parking, but many may not want to make the drive (short, but...).

http://www.on-stjohn.com/2013/07/09/zozos-heads-to-caneel-bay/


----------



## czar

*Float?*

I may have misread or misunderstood, but I thought I saw several times in this thread that only BV was float?  I've seen a bunch of ads, like this one, listing hillside float weeks for sale? 



> Hillside 2br annual.81,000 star options. gold plus season. floats weeks 21-42. a+rated bbb accredited. over $10 million in starwood/westin resales and rentals.buy from the leader in westin/starwood resales and rentals. russell kanner, realtor, the timeshare king®. trust a realtor. thomas kay realty, inc. licensed real estate broker. email me today! tsk 1640



Are these fixed/float weeks?  Or are all of these listings just wrong?


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> I may have misread or misunderstood, but I thought I saw several times in this thread that only BV was float?  I've seen a bunch of ads, like this one, listing hillside float weeks for sale?
> 
> 
> 
> Are these fixed/float weeks?  Or are all of these listings just wrong?



Not entirely wrong - Hillside villas can float (in theory).  For example, I can try and switch my week for another week within my season between 8-10 months out (before SVN period).  However, to do so an Owner of a similar villa (that also has a fixed week) during the same season needs to give up their week.  So, they do not truly float.  It can happen, but there have been no reports (that I recall hearing about) of this actually occurring.  It may be possible to do this exchange if you want to move your week to Sept/Oct (for example), but moving to a better time is likely going to be very difficult.  Also, there is lack of transparency of inventory.  Meaning, if an Owner were to exchange their week as to become available - we have no idea if SVO/WSJ doesn't just grab that villa for their own usage (assumption...) versus put it into a float pool.

Being 4* Elite may help with finding an exchange (from a planning perspective) since a 4* can 'wait-list' while they are searching for another week (between 8-10 months out) which does allow for some flexibility.

I would treat the Hillside villa as Fixed (incl check-in day) because that it what is realistic.  WSJ-VG (Hillside) sellers are using the 'float' in order to show flexibility - but this flexibility does not exist in reality. Caveat Emptor.  They are not lying - just not being forthcoming.

As to BV villas - they sell them both as float and as fixed. Supposedly so many are held in the pool of villas as float.  This gets away from the issue of what is observed on the Hillside where an Owner has a fixed week pre-determined.  With BV the opportunity to float is realistic, but have been reports by some that they have been shut out when attempting to reserve a float week.

Hope this helps and makes sense.


----------



## czar

DavidnRobin said:


> Not entirely wrong - Hillside villas can float (in theory).  For example, I can try and switch my week for another week within my season between 8-10 months out (before SVN period).  However, to do so an Owner of a similar villa (that also has a fixed week) during the same season needs to give up their week.  So, they do not truly float.  It can happen, but there have been no reports (that I recall hearing about) of this actually occurring.  It may be possible to do this exchange if you want to move your week to Sept/Oct (for example), but moving to a better time is likely going to be very difficult.  Also, there is lack of transparency of inventory.  Meaning, if an Owner were to exchange their week as to become available - we have no idea if SVO/WSJ doesn't just grab that villa for their own usage (assumption...) versus put it into a float pool.
> 
> Being 4* Elite may help with finding an exchange (from a planning perspective) since a 4* can 'wait-list' while they are searching for another week (between 8-10 months out) which does allow for some flexibility.
> 
> I would treat the Hillside villa as Fixed (incl check-in day) because that it what is realistic.
> 
> As to BV villas - they sell them both as float and as fixed. Supposedly so many are held in the pool of villas as float.  This gets away from the issue of what is observed on the Hillside where an Owner has a fixed week pre-determined.  With BV the opportunity to float is realistic, but have been reports by some that they have been shut out when attempting to reserve a float week.
> 
> Hope this helps and makes sense.



Very helpful as always. Thank you!


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> Very helpful as always. Thank you!



No problem.  btw - I modified my text above (for clarity) after your responded...


----------



## Westin5Star

Not good!  We are staying at Gallow's Point in November.  Part of the reason that we chose it was so that we could eat at Zozo's every night without travel.  Hopefully Zozo's will at least build a swim up bar at their new location 



DavidnRobin said:


> For those who care - ZoZo's is leaving Gallows Point and moving to Caneel Bay (taking over The Sugar Mill). Will be open in November (supposedly).
> I hope the sunset view is as great. At least there be better parking, but many may not want to make the drive (short, but...).
> 
> http://www.on-stjohn.com/2013/07/09/zozos-heads-to-caneel-bay/


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ-VGV (Hillside): Sign Up Now for Next Edition of Owner Directory*

WSJ-VGV (Hillside) Owners - see below:  This is the only SVO resort that has a Owner Directory - sign-up...

*****
Virgin Grand Villas - Sign Up Now for Next Edition of Owner Directory

Dear DAVID, 

We appreciate your patience while work continues to progress on the Owner posting site. In the interim, a revised version of the Virgin Grand Villas-Voluntary Owner Directory will be published and made available in mid-August. If you wish to participate in this revised Directory, click on the link at the bottom of this email to be taken directly to a website especially developed to collect data for the Directory. Instructions on each page will walk you through the steps necessary for successful enrollment. Please be sure to read and carefully follow all instructions.

IMPORTANT: All Owners must submit their information using the link below in order to be included in the Directory. 

The FINAL DATE to submit your information is Wednesday, July 31, 2013. Owners participating in the Directory will receive an email shortly thereafter which provides a link to access the Directory.

Click here to sign up for the Virgin Grand Villas - Voluntary Owner Directory.

Stay well, 
SVO Management, Inc.


----------



## carpie99

I just got the same note ... I only closed on my unit 2 days ago 

What is the purpose of the directory ... is there any week trading that goes on between owners?


----------



## DavidnRobin

carpie99 said:


> I just got the same note ... I only closed on my unit 2 days ago
> 
> What is the purpose of the directory ... is there any week trading that goes on between owners?



It allows for communication for issues that concern the resort and HOA that is beyond the standard SVO communication.  Helps with transparency.  I post these these communications on this thread as I am pro-transparency and appreciative that it goes on at WSJ-VG (unlike any other SVO HOA).

I am not sure if it associated with owner-owner exchanges - don't recall.  There is/was a site for this - not sure if it is used or not.  Someone else may know (?).


----------



## jarta

DavidnRobin said:


> It allows for communication for issues that concern the resort and HOA that is beyond the standard SVO communication.  Helps with transparency.  I post these these communications on this thread as I am pro-transparency and appreciative that it goes on at WSJ-VG (unlike any other SVO HOA).
> 
> I am not sure if it associated with owner-owner exchanges - don't recall.  There is/was a site for this - not sure if it is used or not.  Someone else may know (?).



David,   ...   A directory is a directory for making direct contact.  It provides unfiltered information.  It is not a social media site for fostering discussion of issues by all concerned owners (using TUG-like aliases if they choose to do so).  It's a way to advertise you will accept unsolicited information from those you do not know.  I'm just not sure there is any direct connection between a list of owners and "transparency."  Indirect possible connection, but no direct certain connection.

The WSJ VG directory will be woefully incomplete.  Even when proxies for board elections are solicited, less than 15% are returned.  Do you expect more when the request is for a release of your personal information (name, address, email address? maybe even phone number?)?

I would join a social media site designed for discussion of resort problems.  (We are posting on TUG, aren't we?)  I would not allow release of my personal information to any owner who felt a need to contact me about his/her perceived problems at the resort.  I already get enough junk snail mail and email.

Do you know to whom Google sells your posting information and how many junk emails you derived from Google's sale?  Sorry, a listing in a timeshare directory (semi-private or public) would not be something I'd be interested in.

I'm not telling anyone not to participate in the directory.  Just be careful and consider whether a directory and off web site "participation" in information sharing is what you really want.   Salty


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> For those who care - ZoZo's is leaving Gallows Point and moving to Caneel Bay (taking over The Sugar Mill). Will be open in November (supposedly).
> I hope the sunset view is as great. At least there be better parking, but many may not want to make the drive (short, but...).
> 
> http://www.on-stjohn.com/2013/07/09/zozos-heads-to-caneel-bay/



Well at least it will be open next year when we go.


----------



## ajb116

*Confirmation!*

Hello everyone,

This morning I lucked out and booked 8 months out to WSJ for March! It will only be a studio but grabbing anything in March at WSJ seems like a miracle and besides you are supposed to be outside anyways!


----------



## DavidnRobin

ajb116 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> This morning I lucked out and booked 8 months out to WSJ for March! It will only be a studio but grabbing anything in March at WSJ seems like a miracle and besides you are supposed to be outside anyways!



Congrats and thanks for the success story - always good to hear - enjoy your stay. Let us know how your vacation went.


----------



## tomandrobin

ajb116 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> This morning I lucked out and booked 8 months out to WSJ for March! It will only be a studio but grabbing anything in March at WSJ seems like a miracle and besides you are supposed to be outside anyways!



Congrats! 

And yes, that's a very hard reservation to make.


----------



## tborr123

I just chanced upon the owner resale program posted by David above, which appears to expire tomorrow July 17. Given the shortness of time, can someone tell me if the prices for the 3 br platinum units good deals, even with closing costs? I realize they may already be sold. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Cornhusker

ajb116 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> This morning I lucked out and booked 8 months out to WSJ for March! It will only be a studio but grabbing anything in March at WSJ seems like a miracle and besides you are supposed to be outside anyways!



Nice.  Better luck than I had, that's for sure.  I did finally get in just after labor day so will be at WSJ for the first time in less than six weeks.  I got a 3Bd BV but would love to luck into a pool villa if by miracle one was open.  We can't wait.  Had a shot at a Harborside studio during peak 2014 time but passed on it opting to travel later in the spring, late April or May.


----------



## DavidnRobin

tborr123 said:


> I just chanced upon the owner resale program posted by David above, which appears to expire tomorrow July 17. Given the shortness of time, can someone tell me if the prices for the 3 br platinum units good deals, even with closing costs? I realize they may already be sold. Thanks in advance.



You have to be an Owner to buy these.  As to 'good deal' - that really depends on multiple factors. Not as good that is seen sometimes by TS Brokers and eBay.  When buying these - one really must factor in the week and villa they want because they are essentially fixed (including check-in day).  Also, planned usage.  Good price? Perhaps... Deal? Depends...


----------



## DavidnRobin

Speaking of which...

Did a Tugger win this auction?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/14101368655...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_4755wt_1264

Wow! - $4150 for a week 2 2Bd TH (148.1K SOs, Plat+ season) - too bad the sellers decided to use redweeks4less - or didn't use a Broker on StJ.  If true (meaning - if auction goes thru) - someone got a great price.


----------



## carpie99

DavidnRobin said:


> Speaking of which...
> 
> Did a Tugger win this auction?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/14101368655...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_4755wt_1264
> 
> Wow! - $4150 for a week 2 2Bd TH (148.1K SOs, Plat+ season) - too bad the sellers decided to use redweeks4less - or didn't use a Broker on StJ.  If true (meaning - if auction goes thru) - someone got a great price.



That is a great price - I just bought a Week 27 for $2900 (Only 81,000 pts) ... I wish I had seen that one


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Why St John?*

easy...
http://vimeo.com/46002208


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> easy...
> http://vimeo.com/46002208




Ok.....Where and when do they surf there?


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> Ok.....Where and when do they surf there?



Wintertime - but relatively infrequent to have good surfing waves.  I hear more surfing on Tortola.  In June, it is like a lake - which I prefer while there.  It would be a drag to have waves at the northside beaches.
Besides - plenty of waves here.


----------



## DavidnRobin

carpie99 said:


> What is the purpose of the directory ... is there any week trading that goes on between owners?



Follow-up:
I do not think so for this Directory - used for communications.
But check-out...
http://www.westinstjohnrentals.com/index.html
for Owner rentals and exchanges.
I haven't used this - but see some Tuggers that do.


----------



## carpie99

DavidnRobin said:


> Follow-up:
> I do not think so for this Directory - used for communications.
> But check-out...
> http://www.westinstjohnrentals.com/index.html
> for Owner rentals and exchanges.
> I haven't used this - but see some Tuggers that do.



Awesome thanks!  I love the week I just bought (27) but I would love the idea to swap with other deeded properties on the hill if it made sense.


----------



## polly0014

Does anyone know what the recent "incentive" is for an owner's update at WSJ?   Wondering if it's worth our time...Thanks!

polly


----------



## DavidnRobin

polly0014 said:


> Does anyone know what the recent "incentive" is for an owner's update at WSJ?   Wondering if it's worth our time...Thanks!
> 
> polly



$125 'Starfish' bucks (or could be another name? - essentially coupons worth $125 that can be spent at many places) - I used to buy some Hiatian art at Mongoose Junction.


----------



## polly0014

Thanks!  So the "starfish bucks" can't just be applied to our room charges?  Boo!  Thank you so much!


----------



## DavidnRobin

polly0014 said:


> Thanks!  So the "starfish bucks" can't just be applied to our room charges?  Boo!  Thank you so much!



Not sure - I think they can be used for things that are normally charged to room.


----------



## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> For those who care - ZoZo's is leaving Gallows Point and moving to Caneel Bay (taking over The Sugar Mill). Will be open in November (supposedly).
> I hope the sunset view is as great. At least there be better parking, but many may not want to make the drive (short, but...).
> 
> http://www.on-stjohn.com/2013/07/09/zozos-heads-to-caneel-bay/



more on ZoZo's...
http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...555-zozo-s-moving-to-sugar-mill-at-caneel-bay


----------



## polly0014

Thank you David!  We will try!


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Message From Your Virgin Grand Owner-Elected Representatives*

Latest communication from WSJ-VG HOA
*****

Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Owner:

We recently participated in a conference call meeting of the Board of Directors of our timeshare condominium owners association, and this is our regular report to you. This is a shorter report than we usually provide, as there have been no major developments since our last report in March. 

Owner directory and website
Although we have experienced a frustrating year-long delay, the website on which owners will be able to buy, sell, rent or exchange weeks (or fractional periods) is nearing completion, and we hope to have it up and running by the end of the year. Meanwhile, because there has been such a long delay, the Board asked management to circulate a new voluntary owners’ directory. You should recently have received an email inviting your participation; if you want to be listed and to receive a copy of the directory, be sure to reply by the end of July.

Discounted sale of association-owned weeks 
In July, we offered owners the opportunity to buy association-owned weeks at bargain prices.  As of today, we have received offers to purchase 44 weeks.  Our next report, in November, will include the number of weeks that we sold and the amount of revenue that we received.  These sales represent weeks that will now bring annual maintenance fee revenues to the association, which will help to keep down the maintenance fees that we all must pay.

Energy savings
The second phase of our installation of photo-voltaic (PV) cells will be completed by the end of the year. By December, all of the three-bedroom buildings will have PV cells on the central portions of their roofs, and we will have installed a ground array on a portion of the hillside. Management is investigating whether we can use the land that we own to produce even more electricity without degrading the appearance of the resort. 

Freecycle shed
Phil was at the resort in June and is happy to report that when he left, there were 13 beach chairs in the freecycle shed – perhaps a record high – as well as floats, children's toys, and other items. An electronic lock for the shed (which will be coordinated with room keys) is on order. 

Wi-fi
As we noted in our last report, the wi-fi system has been upgraded. It is now more reliable than before, but we have heard from owners that the basic system, which is available free to owners, does not support streaming video. Currently, owners must pay about $10 per day if they want a faster system that will stream video. The Board has asked management to see whether the system could be improved for owners without imposing such a high fee.

Buildings 41 and 42 
Management will poll the owners of units in buildings 41 and 42 in the near future to see whether they would want (or object to) the installation of a permanent wall between the two upstairs bedrooms. As you know, under the by-laws, a wall cannot be installed in any unit if any owner of that unit objects to the installation. 

Two-bedroom units
Some owners of the two-bedroom units requested additional balcony seating. A folding chair is being provided for each of these units. 

Pending litigation 
There have been no material developments in the two lawsuits against the Association. Management is still attempting to resolve the dispute with a contractor that worked on the exterior refurbishment. The other matter – in which about 6% of owners are suing to rescind the Association's affiliation agreement with Starwood and for reimbursement of the funds expended for refurbishing the villas – is still in its early stages. All defendants -- Starwood entities and the Association -- have filed motions to dismiss the case. The legal fees to defend the Association in these cases must be paid out of Association revenues, and we regret the unfortunate necessity of spending some of our operating funds on this litigation. 

Hotel news 
TripAdvisor has determined that the Westin St. John is now in the top 10% of vacation destinations that it ranks. As some of you know from a recent email from SVO, the resort is still being improved, with a high probability that the main resort pool and deck will be redone this fall. In addition, two of the six cabanas will be removed to make room for more chaises. 

Sincerely, your owner-elected members of the Board of Directors,

Philip G. Schrag
phil.schrag@gmail.com

Robert Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com


----------



## LisaRex

Thanks for the update, David.  I love to see things such as discounted offerings for current owners!


----------



## DeniseM

It is so refreshing to have a BOD that actually MANAGES the resort, and COMMUNICATES with owners!


----------



## DavidnRobin

DeniseM said:


> It is so refreshing to have a BOD that actually MANAGES the resort, and COMMUNICATES with owners!



I wholeheartedly agree - early in this thread it is interesting to read the historical development of getting Phil and Bob on the WSJ-VG HOA BOD (for which this thread played a large role... IMO).  Too bad others do not seem to keep this in perspective.

Can 94% of Owners sue the 6% of Owners for trying to sue 100% of the Owners? 

Perhaps if having Owner-Reps on the WSJ-VG HOA BOD continues to be a positive interaction - SVO will decide that there is benefit in this approach at other resorts.  But, WSJ is unique...


----------



## DavidnRobin

A few comments on the recent communication from the *Owner-elected* Representatives on the WSJ-VG HOA:  {aka - my opinion...}

Re Owner Directory: I  hope all that are aware sign-up for the Directory.  While it is difficult to know if it wil be of value - just the fact that SVO is allowing it is reason enough to sign-up.

Re Weeks for sale: I think this is a great program to get these VOIs back into hands of people capable of paying the MFs.  It is unfortunate that the MFs went up so much so fast (real issue) - that Owners had to give them up.  44 weeks is only about 2/3rds of the weeks available - I wonder what will happen to the rest?  I assume these are low season weeks.

Re Energy: Glad to see futher movement to Solar - WAPA (USVI energy) costs are out of control.

Re Free-Cycle shed: My recent experience is that there were plenty of beach chairs in the FC Shed (way cool because they are expensive to rent/buy), but nothing much else.  I love the idea of a card reader - I do not care if BV owners use it (give and take), or not, as long as it gets used - but should be protected from people not staying on the resort.

We were talking about this topic during our visit and think it would be reasonable for the HOA to supply (and replace when worn) beach chairs like the ones that we found in the FC shed (picture below), and then be re-used by guests as they come and go.  It can't really be to costly, and would alleviate a large hassle on the island (availability of beach chairs...).  We would gladly chip-in for a couple.

Re WiFi: We were fine with basic signal while there as we have no need to stream video(I see enough TV/Movies at home, and it is nice to take a break).  For those who need better internet access - I think it is reasonable to have a small additional charge since this can be easily managed (a bit different scenerio than supplying chairs - However, I would be happy to rent chairs if reasonable cost - if other Owners didn't want this).  I feel the same about the other SVO resorts - those who require high-speed internet should pay for the cost to maintain it.

Re wall in B41-42: Having been in these villas - I can see where we would prefer a wall.  It will be interesting to see how this pans out  - since Owners are a diverse group.

Re chair for Balcony in 2Bd villas: Great idea - I do not like to drag DR chairs out there so we can all sit on the balcony.  It would also be nice if there was a shade umbrella available on the end units (like ours) since now that they cut our shade tree down - it is blazing hot! and to hot to sit outside in the sun.

Re Pending Litagation: ARG! Can I sue the 6% for suing me needlessly?

Thanks again Phil and Bob (if you ever lurk here anymore...)


----------



## LisaH

DavidnRobin said:


> Latest communication from WSJ-VG HOA
> *****
> Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Owner:
> 
> We recently participated in a conference call meeting of the Board of Directors of our timeshare condominium owners association, and this is our regular report to you. This is a shorter report than we usually provide, as there have been no major developments since our last report in March.
> 
> Owner directory and website
> Although we have experienced a frustrating year-long delay, the website on which owners will be able to buy, sell, rent or exchange weeks (or fractional periods) is nearing completion, and we hope to have it up and running by the end of the year. Meanwhile, *because there has been such a long delay, the Board asked management to circulate a new voluntary owners’ directory.* You should recently have received an email inviting your participation; if you want to be listed and to receive a copy of the directory, be sure to reply by the end of July.



I received this email but not the previous one regarding the directory. Can someone provide me a link or PM me the info about how to have us included in the directory or getting a copy?

Thanks!


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaH said:


> I received this email but not the previous one regarding the directory. Can someone provide me a link or PM me the info about how to have us included in the directory or getting a copy?
> 
> Thanks!



Sorry LisaH - It looks like I deleted the email so I do not have the link.  Not sure if the link was specific to the Owner or not.  Sometimes these emails end up in spam folder.  You can email Phil and ask.  I wonder how many email addresses that they have that are correct, and therefore many people are unaware. If you email Phil - you may want to mention this to him.


----------



## carpie99

Zero beach chairs in FreeCycle this week ... LAME!

So taking the owners update tomorrow for my $125 ... and they threw in a free lunch.

I can't wait to tell them I bought week 28 two bedroom for $2900 and see if they can match that deal


----------



## DavidnRobin

carpie99 said:


> I can't wait to tell them I bought week 28 two bedroom for $2900 and see if they can match that deal



too bad about the chairs - I may write Phil and suggest the idea to supply a couple of beach chairs per villa - or allow for resonable price rentals (or something...)

Not sure why you would want to egg Sales on - when you know that they won't match price, they can't, and they do not need to...  as there are plenty of fish out there. (besides... they already know as your ownership history is part of their sales sheet)

I find the sales folks at WSJ to be pretty nice folks and most have lived on StJ for years and just trying to make a living like everyone else...
probably better to just say you already own and love your villa - and are not looking to buy more.


----------



## carpie99

Good point ... I won't gloat.  They are going to try to get me to convert my SVV unit to a STJ unit.


----------



## carpie99

Any chance the VG HOA will be doing another sale of timeshares ... I would love to get a week 27 or 29 unit to go alongside my week 28.


----------



## DavidnRobin

carpie99 said:


> Good point ... I won't gloat.  They are going to try to get me to convert my SVV unit to a STJ unit.



or try and get you to 'upgrade' to a BV villa or a 3Bd pool villa - that is usually what they try and discuss with me - but my line is that I am happy with what I have, and already own more weeks than I have vacation.  That pretty much gets me out fast.



carpie99 said:


> Any chance the VG HOA will be doing another sale of timeshares ... I would love to get a week 27 or 29 unit to go alongside my week 28.



Not for a while - I believe their letter stated that they will give an update to the HOA in November (iirc)


----------



## carpie99

DavidnRobin said:


> or try and get you to 'upgrade' to a BV villa or a 3Bd pool villa - that is usually what they try and discuss with me - but my line is that I am happy with what I have, and already own more weeks than I have vacation.  That pretty much gets me out fast.
> 
> 
> 
> Not for a while - I believe their letter stated that they will give an update to the HOA in November (iirc)



Why wouldn't the HOA just keep the listings always open to try to get more people paying MFs?


----------



## DavidnRobin

carpie99 said:


> Why wouldn't the HOA just keep the listings always open to try to get more people paying MFs?



Not sure why...

getting an adjacent week is good idea, but best to make it same villa as others may have different check-in day (this cannot be changed) - besides hassle to move villas (IMO)


----------



## czar

Two questions:

1.  Is this accurate (pulled from VRBO listing):

_The 3BR 'Pool Villas' were built from scratch and have their own private pools, courtyards and 2,850 sq.ft. of two level space! The 3BR Pool Villas are NOT 'up the hill'. They are on FLAT GROUND and do not require incline walking. Parking is right in front of the Villa. The new 3BR 'BAY VISTA' units are hotel rooms converted into timeshare condos._

Curious as it's hard to tell on the map.  They look far away from the main pool area, but since I have no bearings, I don't have the right perspective.

2.  Wht is the best/most efficient way for me to get to see three different types of units: BV 3br; Hillside 2br; 3br Pool Villa?  I've never gone on a timeshare tour or "owner's update," and I've chosen not to in the past regardless of incentive since I don't like to waste my vacation time; however, would like to be prepared with a strategy in case we decide we want to pursue ownership at WSJ.  At this point, it seems like the 3br pool villa would be the best fit for our needs.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## jarta

^^^ czar,   1.  Yes, on flat ground.  The non-3br Hillside units are up the hill.  The distance/separation from the rest of the resort is why they have their own pools.  There are people who love the separation - and the view.

2.  Without meeting owners during the stay or breaking in, the owner's update is about it.  Be prepared for 2 hours or more for the sales pitch.   Salty


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1.  Is this accurate (pulled from VRBO listing):
> 
> _The 3BR 'Pool Villas' were built from scratch and have their own private pools, courtyards and 2,850 sq.ft. of two level space! The 3BR Pool Villas are NOT 'up the hill'. They are on FLAT GROUND and do not require incline walking. Parking is right in front of the Villa. The new 3BR 'BAY VISTA' units are hotel rooms converted into timeshare condos._
> 
> Curious as it's hard to tell on the map.  They look far away from the main pool area, but since I have no bearings, I don't have the right perspective.
> 
> 2.  Wht is the best/most efficient way for me to get to see three different types of units: BV 3br; Hillside 2br; 3br Pool Villa?  I've never gone on a timeshare tour or "owner's update," and I've chosen not to in the past regardless of incentive since I don't like to waste my vacation time; however, would like to be prepared with a strategy in case we decide we want to pursue ownership at WSJ.  At this point, it seems like the 3br pool villa would be the best fit for our needs.
> 
> Thanks for any help.



The difficulty in walking a certain distance or incline is relative to the person.  So can't answer.  The 3Bd pool villas are not far IMO - but certainly further than BV villas.  There is no real incline to the 3Bd pool villas - there is a short incline to the BV villas. As to being built from scratch - isn't every building built from scratch. Or do they mean that they weren't converted from hotel rooms (BV buildings were hotel buildings once)?  So... Overall - Question #1 is accurate.

Also - you can see the differences in distance (and a bit on elevation) between the various buildings on Google Earth.

As to #2 - to see the real differerences you will likely need to do a tour.  However, there are photos and videos of these villas.  I have posted these for our 2Bd Hillside (Photobucket and YouTube).  I did have videos of the 2Bd BV villas and surrounds on YouTube, but took them down.  If I traveled with 6 people - I would choose the 3Bd pool villas - they are nice - IMO YMMV.

This has been discussed - and choice between VG and BV is a personal preference - we like our 2Bd TH VG villa for reasons previously discussed here.  The ability to park, be away from the main resort, and have a pool within a few steps from our villa - is something we like.  They are not as fancy from an interior design perspective - but that is less important to us.


----------



## czar

jarta said:


> ^^^ czar,   1.  Yes, on flat ground.  The non-3br Hillside units are up the hill.  The distance/separation from the rest of the resort is why they have their own pools.  There are people who love the separation - and the view.


Thanks - that's helpful. I guess visiting will give us the right perspective.  I was a little concerned about the Hillside units with 3 kids (5,3,1) trudging up or down a hill.  With both my wife and I, its not a huge deal, but for one of us, it would be difficult for the foreseable future.


> 2.  Without meeting owners during the stay or breaking in, the owner's update is about it.  Be prepared for 2 hours or more for the sales pitch.   Salty


Ok, thanks.  As long as know it in advance and can plan, at least we know.  I guess it's probably better to get it done with toward the beginning of the trip.  The closest I've come to attending is watching the process at SVR.  Just looked painful.


----------



## czar

DavidnRobin said:


> The difficulty in walking a certain distance or incline is relative to the person.  So can't answer.  The 3Bd pool villas are not far IMO - but certainly further than BV villas.  There is no real incline to the 3Bd pool villas - there is a short incline to the BV villas. As to being built from scratch - isn't every building built from scratch. Or do they mean that they weren't converted from hotel rooms (BV buildings were hotel buildings once)?  So... Overall - Question #1 is accurate.


Thanks - yes, we're "young" (at least I'd like to think so!) and active, it's the three kids in tow that make it a challange.  We own a unit at Captiva, and it's either a long walk, short bike ride, or easy trolley to the beach.  But to go back and forth to have lunch and escape the heat is important, and it's not easy for one of us to do so with all 3 kids.  I could see navigating a hill being tough for our two youngest, both of whom still enjoy being carried.  I stayed at the Fairmont Southampton in Bermuda and made the mistake, after missing the shuttle that only ran every 20-30 minutes or so, of walking back up from the beach area carrying our 1 yo, and I was definitely tired - and hot!


> Also - you can see the differences in distance (and a bit on elevation) between the various buildings on Google Earth.



Great idea - always forget about Earth!


> As to #2 - to see the real differerences you will likely need to do a tour.  However, there are photos and videos of these villas.  I have posted these for our 2Bd Hillside (Photobucket and YouTube).  I did have videos of the 2Bd BV villas and surrounds on YouTube, but took them down.  If I traveled with 6 people - I would choose the 3Bd pool villas - they are nice - IMO YMMV.


Yes, there are currently 5 of us, and I see the pool villas, with their pools, dedicated grills and outdoor space, and 3 bedrooms (we have 2 girls and a boy, so eventually that would come in handy) being a win-win for us.  My wife vacationed with a family of 6 in small hotel rooms.  My family always rented a house at the Cape ir Outer Banks, so we've found the TS route to be perfect for us - I am a beach guy, she's a pool and amenities girl, so these types of resorts are the perfect combo.  It looks like the 3BR PV as being the ultimate going that route.



> This has been discussed - and choice between VG and BV is a personal preference - we like our 2Bd TH VG villa for reasons previously discussed here.  The ability to park, be away from the main resort, and have a pool within a few steps from our villa - is something we like.  They are not as fancy from an interior design perspective - but that is less important to us.


I've read through the entire thread, and my guess is we will need to experience it for ourselves.  I don't care much about the interior design so much as I care about the amenities.  


Thanks again for the great feedback.


----------



## czar

_Just in case it would interest anyone, I've been randomly checking for President's Week avaiability across a bunch of SVN resorts, and WSJ has low avaiability for a 3BR: 
Check-in
Fri, February 14, 2014
Check-out
Fri, February 21, 2014
7 nights
Villa	3 Bedroom Villa
Max. Occupancy 10

Tried to book and confirmed it is available with phone rep - then realized I'd transposed the 6 and the 9, so my 169k SO don't cut it (I think it was 196,900)!_

EDIT: actually, not as crazy as I though I was. I knew I had enough SO's between what I banked (81k) last year and the 169 I have for 2014.  For some reason they were missing 44k of my SO's.  Ghost in the machine I guess.  I'm on hold while they try to resolve.  Some issue with one of my weeks (resale) being listed but not pulling the SO.  Strange because I see them accurately reflected in MyStarCentral.  Holding tight as I'd love to try the 3br villa!


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## jarta

Thank you!  Got it.  It's in BV.  (Just saw you edited your post after I called Starwood.  Wouldn't have called except you originally said you did not have the necessary 196,900 StarOptions.)   Salty


----------



## czar

jarta said:


> Thank you!  Got it.  It's in BV.  (Just saw you edited your post after I called Starwood.  Wouldn't have called except you originally said you did not have the necessary 196,900 StarOptions.)   Salty



Glad you snagged it Salty.  They just were able to link my accounts now.


----------



## czar

jarta said:


> It's in BV.



Well, that makes the lost opportunity easier to deal with - we are staying in BV in 2 weeks, so I was really looking to stay a 3BR pool villa (wishful thiking I guess!) - nevertheless, any availability for Presidents Week is a find.


----------



## carpie99

Owner's Update was quick, interesting, and a bit disappointing.

I was told that they were allowing owners in SVV to take all their equity and apply it to a unit in STJ.  That was somewhat true.  I "have $28,900" in equity in my SVV unit and they did have a week 27 unit for $31,000.  However Starwood will only do a equity change like that if they are getting +$20K.  Oh well, the update was quick after that.


----------



## YYJMSP

carpie99 said:


> Owner's Update was quick, interesting, and a bit disappointing.
> 
> I was told that they were allowing owners in SVV to take all their equity and apply it to a unit in STJ.  That was somewhat true.  I "have $28,900" in equity in my SVV unit and they did have a week 27 unit for $31,000.  However Starwood will only do a equity change like that if they are getting +$20K.  Oh well, the update was quick after that.



Sounds about right, every deal that involves another unit (retro, upgrade, trade) seems to require at least $20K in new monies...


----------



## czar

First, big thanks to Salty for helping me out after I lost the Pres Week reservation yesterday because of the issue with my account.

Second, just scored a 3BR unit for Sat-Sat Pres Week.  I asked which association it ws in, and the rep told me that it would not be determined until a few days before check-in?  That did not seem to make sense - I undetstand that I would not get an actual unit assignemnt until then.  The confirmation just says Sat-Sat, 196,900 SO, 3BR, sleeps 10.  Any idea how I may be able to find out?  I realize the # of SO's are the same for BV and Hillside.


----------



## LisaRex

czar said:


> Second, just scored a 3BR unit for Sat-Sat Pres Week.  I asked which association it ws in, and the rep told me that it would not be determined until a few days before check-in?  That did not seem to make sense - I undetstand that I would not get an actual unit assignemnt until then.  The confirmation just says Sat-Sat, 196,900 SO, 3BR, sleeps 10.  Any idea how I may be able to find out?  I realize the # of SO's are the same for BV and Hillside.



Here's the deal. They probably do know what section you're in, but since they reserve to right to change it, and have in fact changed SO requests at the last minute, why would they want to commit to it?


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## DeniseM

Not revealing info about the location of your reservation is standard Starwood policy - even for home resort reservations.  As Lisa said, it gives the front desk more flexibility.


----------



## czar

LisaRex said:


> Here's the deal. They probably do know what section you're in, but since they reserve to right to change it, and have in fact changed SO requests at the last minute, why would they want to commit to it?





			
				DeniseM said:
			
		

> Not revealing info about the location of your reservation is standard Starwood policy - even for home resort reservations. As Lisa said, it gives the front desk more flexibility.



Makes sense but still seems strange to me.  Although they sleep the same number, there's a huge difference between a BV 3br and a 3br pool villa; much different, from my mind, from location of a view or floor or area of the resort.  Interesting that there's not a way to discrminate between them for booking purposes.  I guess you can only guarantee that if you own that type of unit?


----------



## Cornhusker

czar said:


> Makes sense but still seems strange to me.  Although they sleep the same number, there's a huge difference between a BV 3br and a 3br pool villa; much different, from my mind, from location of a view or floor or area of the resort.  Interesting that there's not a way to discrminate between them for booking purposes.  I guess you can only guarantee that if you own that type of unit?


I agree that most people would think there is a large difference.  I also have a 3BR reservation coming up in a few weeks at WSJ.  I was told it would more likely be BV but they did note my preference for a VG pool villa.  I intend to also make my request for a pool villa known when the concierge makes their normal contact two weeks or so prior to my stay, although my expectations are low since most of these are fixed unit, fixed week and are aggressively marketed for rental.  Either way I am jacked for my stay.  Just so the blender works!!


----------



## LisaH

We are getting ready for our trip to St John in a week. Can the regulars tell me what we need to bring for the essentials? For instance, does the Westin provide enough laundry detergent? We are new owners and have only stayed at the hotel portion before. Thanks!


----------



## czar

We're headed out next weekend too. Was looking around because I know David had posted a packing list around here somewhere. Just can't find it!


----------



## LisaRex

LisaH said:


> We are getting ready for our trip to St John in a week. Can the regulars tell me what we need to bring for the essentials? For instance, does the Westin provide enough laundry detergent? We are new owners and have only stayed at the hotel portion before. Thanks!



They supply a starter set of everything, such as laundry detergent, a small bottle of dishwashing liquid, and one caf and one decaf coffee.  So I bring these.  

I also always throw in a few kitchen bags.  I always use them, if not for trash, then to store wet clothes or snorkel gear on the way home.


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## DavidnRobin

Off the top of my head... YMMV

KS fitted sheet (now with ink-stain...)
Parasheet for beach - also Neat sheet (water proof)
Soft-sided cooler
Coozies
Peets coffee (ground for flat-bottom filter)
Snorkel, mask, flippers
Sun shirts (SPF50+) - love the UnderArmour Heat Gear (loose)
Water-shoes
Unscented bug spray (DEET)
Sun-screen and after-sun lotions
Portable speakers (Bose, Jambox) - including cheap beach speakers
Mini-mini RCA cable
iPod
Sun hat
Water-proof bag
UW camera/video (Olympus TG820)
Veggie steamer
Aluminum tongs
Unscented laundry detergent (concentrate)
Spices (dry and liquid) - and salt/pepper


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## LisaH

Thanks Dave! I expected the KS fitted sheet would be on the list but did not know it is on the very top...


----------



## SMHarman

DavidnRobin said:


> Off the top of my head... YMMV
> 
> KS fitted sheet (now with ink-stain...)
> Parasheet for beach - also Neat sheet (water proof)
> Soft-sided cooler
> Coozies
> Peets coffee (ground for flat-bottom filter)
> Snorkel, mask, flippers
> Sun shirts (SPF50+) - love the UnderArmour Heat Gear (loose)
> Water-shoes
> Unscented bug spray (DEET)
> Sun-screen and after-sun lotions
> Portable speakers (Bose, Jambox) - including cheap beach speakers
> Mini-mini RCA cable
> iPod
> Sun hat
> Water-proof bag
> UW camera/video (Olympus TG820)
> Veggie steamer
> Aluminum tongs
> Unscented laundry detergent (concentrate)
> Spices (dry and liquid) - and salt/pepper



This list misses kitchen knives. 
Since I got great ones at home I keep sharp I like to travel with them since the knives in any rental are not treated as well. 
Of course this means I need to check my luggage!
They knives travel in these.
http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Cu...375579711&sr=8-9&keywords=travel+knife+holder

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


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## clsmit

I've become a big fan of single-use laundry detergent for travel. Easy to put a bunch of them in a double zip lock baggie (baggie and then another baggie) and in the suitcase. I used to take powdered detergent since we do carryons but single use is much easier. Single-use dishwashing detergent, too, if you'll have 6+ people in your unit that will use all the dishes at every meal.

Also on my list -- 10 each ziplock bags in gallon and quart sizes for leftovers, small roll of aluminum foil, and newly added to the list: small roll of duct tape.


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## DavidnRobin

We also bring quart and gallon size zip locks and AL foil.
We put liquid ultra concentrated (unscented) laundry soap in a small Nalgene bottle with screw cap.

We have it down to 2 checkin bags that weigh 50# each (for 2week trip) - which reminds me - I also bring a luggage scale after hassle at LIH for 2 extra pounds.


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## LisaH

Thanks everyone! I have a pretty good idea now what to take with us. 
LisaR, the starter kit sounds the same as the ones provided at the Maui properties and Harborside. In Maui, we had no problem to obtain additional laundry packets whereas at Harborside we had to pay extra for these. I will make sure to put some in my lugguage.


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## carpie99

I just got back from STJ.  There is no need to bring laundry detergent, dish soap, coffee, or dishwasher soap.

Every time we run out of any of those a quick service call gets a free delivery of all of those.

That has been my experience at all starwood resorts.

Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2


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## LisaRex

carpie99 said:


> I just got back from STJ.  There is no need to bring laundry detergent, dish soap, coffee, or dishwasher soap.
> 
> Every time we run out of any of those a quick service call gets a free delivery of all of those.



Every time I call for service, I tip the delivery person.  I think it'd be cheaper to just bring them from home!


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## czar

LisaRex said:


> Every time I call for service, I tip the delivery person.  I think it'd be cheaper to just bring them from home!



Can you grab these things directly?  Like from the front desk?


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## DavidnRobin

btw - we bring unscented (liquid concentrate) because I dislike the smell of most scented laundry detergents - not because they are difficult to get at the resorts.  WSJ has supply storage (covered carts) outside of each building - and easy to check on stuff left/available.


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## DavidnRobin

on another note - always like to post links to things on StJ that could help people staying there...

need someone to babysit? We don't need this, but I can imagine it could come in quite handy for some.

http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/08/05/new-babysitting-service-launches-on-island/


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## czar

DavidnRobin said:


> on another note - always like to post links to things on StJ that could help people staying there...
> 
> need someone to babysit? We don't need this, but I can imagine it could come in quite handy for some.
> 
> http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/08/05/new-babysitting-service-launches-on-island/



Thanks!  Spoke to Leslie yesterday via email. 

What's weather like this time of year?  Here's 10-day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Is that typical?


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## ekinggill

*Any picture or status requests from the resort?*

Heading there this weekend.  Will file trip report as always.  Any requests?  I will for sure get FreeCycle, beach, tennis courts, view from our unit, and any eyesore I see.

Regards,

Rich


----------



## DavidnRobin

ekinggill said:


> Heading there this weekend.  Will file trip report as always.  Any requests?  I will for sure get FreeCycle, beach, tennis courts, view from our unit, and any eyesore I see.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rich



Eyesores like this...?
http://www.on-stjohn.com/2013/08/06/its-gonna-be-big/
or this...
http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/08/06/recently-fined-denis-bay-property-see-for-yourself/
{I hope the island shuns these idiots}

Have a great trip - focus on the beauty instead... always great to see views, sunsets and Caribbean-blue water.


----------



## ekinggill

Yes...that tragedy at Denis Bay is just unacceptable.  The fines to date have been laughably small.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*2012 Property Tax Bills for WSJ-VG being issued*

and after many years - finally caught up...

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...-real-property-issues-2012-property-tax-bills


----------



## czar

If we decide not to rent a car, would we be able to get away with no car seats for our one, three, and five-year-olds? Wasn't sure what the taxis/shuttles were like.


----------



## Henry M.

The "taxis"/shuttles are actually big pickup trucks with covered bench seats on the back. I don't think they have any seat belts to attach a car seat.


----------



## czar

DavidnRobin said:


> and after many years - finally caught up...
> 
> http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...-real-property-issues-2012-property-tax-bills



Looks like if you pay in the next 7 days, there's a discount


----------



## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> The "taxis"/shuttles are actually big pickup trucks with covered bench seats on the back. I don't think they have any seat belts to attach a car seat.



There is no where to put a car seat in a StJ taxi.
If taking a StJ taxi - I would recommend one adult on one side - and another adult on the other - with the 3 children in-between.

Added from VINOW
*Are seat belts the law? What about Car Seats for children?*
Driver and front passenger must be restrained by a safety belt. Any child under age five must be in a car seat. In the case of a child aged three through five, seat belts can be used but the child must ride in the backseat. Any child older than five but under twelve must wear a safety belt. (This information is a summary and subject to change, confirm current regulations with your rental car agent.)


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> Looks like if you pay in the next 7 days, there's a discount



Don't expect to get the WSJ-VG tax bills for a while.
I have had credit go towards next bill - but it is never that much.  You could go to the Tax assessors office while there and pay.  Not sure if it would be worth the few dollars saved.


----------



## czar

DavidnRobin said:


> on another note - always like to post links to things on StJ that could help people staying there...
> 
> need someone to babysit? We don't need this, but I can imagine it could come in quite handy for some.
> 
> http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/08/05/new-babysitting-service-launches-on-island/



Anyone looking for a babysitter, Leslie is amazing!  Used her last night to watch our 1,3,5 yo's. She really is incredible.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Hey WSJ fans - just wanted to give a visual of the ride over Jacobs Ladder from WSJ -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssX5tgrcu94#at=91

Here is a short YouTube video that starts at in front of WSJ - and goes by StJ Market on right (at 0:55) - so you can see how close it is) - then by gas station (eyesore) under-construction - then over Jacobs Ladder (notice poor hot souls that apparently decided to walk it) - and then to the next gas station about a minute later.
why would they ever build another gas station so close to the existing one???

As you go buy existing gas station (video stops here) - you go around the corner and StarFish is on left - and then importantly - road to car barge is then on left - less than 5 mins from WSJ - then the road continues on to Cruz Bay.


----------



## FLDVCFamily

DavidnRobin said:


> on another note - always like to post links to things on StJ that could help people staying there...
> 
> need someone to babysit? We don't need this, but I can imagine it could come in quite handy for some.
> 
> http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/08/05/new-babysitting-service-launches-on-island/



That is my friend Leslie! I highly recommend her  She has been my daughter's PT for years and years...love her

Now if someone could just tell me how to trade into Westin St. John so we can go visit her, I'd be happy! I can't seem to match this resort to save my life. I'd be trading in with Foxrun week 31 which has always had really high trade power for me.


----------



## LisaRex

FLDVCFamily said:


> Now if someone could just tell me how to trade into Westin St. John so we can go visit her, I'd be happy! I can't seem to match this resort to save my life. I'd be trading in with Foxrun week 31 which has always had really high trade power for me.



WSJ very rarely makes it into II.  Most owners either use their unit or rent it out.  And even if it made it to II, you won't get it past the Starwood priority.  (Starwood owners have a priority window where only they can see Starwood deposits.)


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaRex said:


> WSJ very rarely makes it into II.  Most owners either use their unit or rent it out.  And even if it made it to II, you won't get it past the Starwood priority.  (Starwood owners have a priority window where only they can see Starwood deposits.)



Also, Owners use SVN to exchange.


----------



## Westin5Star

DavidnRobin said:


> Also, Owners use SVN to exchange.



We will be in St. John in November.  This will be our 5th or 6th visit to the island and we have always traded in using SO.

BTW, they are remodeling the main pool later this year.  I wonder if they have a swim up bar planned.  The only thing better than a swim up bar is a swim up bar with buckets of voodoo juice.


----------



## tomandrobin

Westin5Star said:


> We will be in St. John in November.  This will be our 5th or 6th visit to the island and we have always traded in using SO.
> 
> BTW, they are remodeling the main pool later this year.  I wonder if they have a swim up bar planned.  The only thing better than a swim up bar is a swim up bar with buckets of voodoo juice.









Hopefully it will be done by May next year.


----------



## DavidnRobin

I received our tax bills today.  I had a credit for early payment from last year, and IMPORTANTLY - our assessment dropped  and are now also the same between the villas. Bill was about $20 less.


----------



## FLDVCFamily

Westin5Star said:


> We will be in St. John in November.  This will be our 5th or 6th visit to the island and *we have always traded in using SO*.
> 
> BTW, they are remodeling the main pool later this year.  I wonder if they have a swim up bar planned.  The only thing better than a swim up bar is a swim up bar with buckets of voodoo juice.



What is SO? I have traders in II and RCI, but haven't heard of SO.


----------



## czar

FLDVCFamily said:


> What is SO? I have traders in II and RCI, but haven't heard of SO.



Staroptions (not starpoints), the currency of starwood internal trading from those who bought developer weeks or a resale mandatory resort. 

My 2br platinum SVV gets 81k SO per year. I traded for a winter 3br WSJ which costs 196k. Summer weeks are fewer SO.

You can book with SO at 8 mos or less.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Summer 2013 WSJ-BV trip report by Tugger czar (1st visit of many...)
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197102


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Ferry and BVI Customs Fees Increased*

From News of St John: 
http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/08/20/ferry-and-bvi-customs-fees-increased/

Well we hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we have two rate increases to tell you about. Fortunately they’re both relatively small.

We reported back in February that the Public Services Commission (PSC) was looking to increase rates after receiving a recommendation to do so from a technical consultant. Well PSC has moved forward with the increase, but it will only affect tourists or “non-residential adults” as they refer to them. Tourists will now have to pay an additional $1 when traveling by passenger ferry between St. John and St. Thomas. Checked bag rates will also increase by $1.50 per bag.

The increase will officially go into effect within 30 days of it being signed off on by the PSC Commissioner. At that time, tourists will start being charged $7 each way for trips between Red Hook and St. John, $13 for trips between Charlotte Amalie and St. John and $4.00 for checked bags.

The British Virgin Islands has also increased its departure tax for visitors who arrive and depart by ferry and charter boat. That tax was raised from $5 per person to $15 for non-residents. (BVI residents were also hit with this increase. Their departure tax was also raised from $5 per person to $10. The BVI is also looking to increase its air departure tax, however that’s still in the discussion phase.)


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Seasonal resturant closings*

From News of StJ:
http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/08/21/its-that-time-again-seasonal-closings-list/

*Staying Open:*
•Zero Sushi
•da Livio’s (Closed Tuesdays)
•Deli Grotto
•Beach Bar
•High Tide
•i Scream!
•Sam and Jack’s Deli
•Tap Room
•Uncle Joe’s BBQ
•Woody’s
•Across the Street Bar 
•Sun Dog Cafe (Wednesday Night Jam on hiatus until mid-October)

*Closing:*
•The Fish Trap: Closing August 24; Reopening October 4
•Banana Deck: Closing September 1; Reopening October 15
•The Terrace: Closing September 23; Reopening October 15 (Approximately)
•Lime Inn: Closing August 24; Outdoor bar reopens September 23; Restaurant reopens November 11
•Motu Bar: Closing this week; Reopening mid-October
•Ocean Grill: Closing after Labor Day; Reopening September 25
•Waterfront Bistro: Closing September 1; Reopening October 3
•Zozo’s Ristorante: Closed now; Reopening November 1 in its new location at Caneel
•Baked in the Sun: Closing September 14; Reopening September 25
•Fatty Crab: Closed on Tuesdays only through October 31
•Margarita Phil’s: Closing August 31; Reopening either October 7 or October 14 (They’re still deciding on that.)
•Ronnie’s Pizza: Closed now; Reopening September 2
•Tamarind Inn: Closing for dinner only on September 21; Reopening for dinner on October 5 (Breakfast will continue to be served during this time)
•Aqua Bistro: Closing September 4: Reopening September 9; Will have limited hours of noon through 7 p.m. through October 1; They will also be closed on Sundays from September 9 through October 1.
•Vie’s Snack Shack: Closing September 1; Reopening in late October or early November
•Shipwreck Landing: Closing August 31; Reopening November 4
•Skinny Legs: Closing September 1; Reopening September 29; They will, however, be open on Sundays throughout September for football. There will be a limited menu. Skinny Legs will open at 1 p.m. on those Sundays and will be open until the end of the second football game.
•Sweet Plantains: Closed now; Reopening in December
•Tourist Trap: Closed now; Reopening on September 17
•Cafe Concordia: Closed for the month of September
•Chateau Bordeaux: Dinner is closed through October 1; Lunch is still being served
•T’ree Lizards: Closing September 1; Reopening November 4
•Cafe Roma: Closed due to the April fire; Reopening in November

*Still Not Sure:*
•Sogo’s: Undecided; Will depend on weather
•Cases By the Sea
•Quiet Mon Pub

*Closed Indefinitely:*
•Donkey Diner: Closed and listed for sale
•Cruz Bay Prime: Closed with no current plans of reopening
•JJ’s Texas Coast: Closed and sold to new owners; New restaurant opening in October
•La Plancha del Mar: Closed and sold to new owners; New restaurant opening this fall
•Sugar Mill at Caneel: Closed; Zozo’s moving into the space this fall

***There are a few restaurants that we were unable to confirm as of yet. Please check back as the list is evolving.***


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Westin Resort Kicking Off $12M Renovation*

From StJ Tradewinds:
http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...8581-westin-resort-kicking-off-12m-renovation

The Westin Resort and Villas St. John is getting a $12 million facelift starting this week.

The “major refurbishment of existing hotel space,” according to a Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, Inc. press release, will include a “complete refresh of the 96 beach and poolside hotel rooms.”

Renovations will focus on both the exterior and interior of hotel room buildings, explained Westin General Manager Mike Ryan.

“What we are doing is a total exterior renovation, including new roofs, siding, windows, and doors,” he said. “We are doing upgrades to the interiors with new carpeting, paint, and soft goods. So it’s a pretty good renovation for those buildings.”

Work is expected to continue through the second week of March 2014, and care will be taken to ensure the impact on guests is minimal.

“We’ll take a building out of service, start working on it, then take a second building out, and by the time we’re ready to take a third building out, the first building should be completed, so we’ve always got inventory,” said Ryan.

Entire buildings will be shut down and refurbished, so guests will not be staying in buildings where work is underway.

In addition to the hotel buildings’ facelift, the Westin will also undergo renovations to its infrastructure in an effort to prevent flooding, which caused damage to the resort during Tropical Storm Otto.

“We’ll be doing work on stormwater management, upgrading sanitary lines, and other needed work like that,” said Ryan. “The stormwater management is to help prevent issues in the future.”

“Not only does this refurbishment ensure an even higher quality of accommodations and services for our guests, but we are also pleased to continue our commitment to the island,” Ryan said in the Starwood release.


----------



## LisaRex

So I guess this answers the question as to whether the hotel will continue to operate.  Previous reports about expanding the timeshare section seemed to indicate that the entire resort might be converted to timeshares.


----------



## jarta

LisaRex said:


> So I guess this answers the question as to whether the hotel will continue to operate.  Previous reports about expanding the timeshare section seemed to indicate that the entire resort might be converted to timeshares.



There is a "major refurbishment of existing hotel space."  Nothing is said about whether the refurbished existing hotel space will continue to be used for hotel space or converted to timeshares in the Starwood announcement or in the news article.  Nothing contradicts the statements made in the quarterly call that the entire hotel space will be converted.  I think it is still an open question - at least.   Salty


----------



## SMHarman

Even if it goes totally timeshare *W can 

continue to own TS units and rent them through the *W website
will obtain use weeks through SO > SP conversions
will obtain use of unbooked weeks x days out
So just like WLM which is 100% TS a hotel operation is likely to continue to exist.


----------



## LisaRex

jarta said:


> There is a "major refurbishment of existing hotel space."  Nothing is said about whether the refurbished existing hotel space will continue to be used for hotel space or converted to timeshares in the Starwood announcement or in the news article.  Nothing contradicts the statements made in the quarterly call that the entire hotel space will be converted.  I think it is still an open question - at least.   Salty



I don't know.  They usually always distinguish hotel space from timeshare space by referring to the former as "rooms" or "suites" and the latter as "villas."  The WSJ website uses the same nomenclature.

A "complete refresh of the 96 beach and poolside rooms" sure sounds like they are giving existing hotel rooms (buildings 10-16) a makeover.  If they were going to knock down walls, which I assume would be necessary to make room for living rooms, kitchens and washer/dryers, surely that wouldn't properly be called a "refresh." 

Acc to their website, they currently have 175 rooms and suites and 146 villas.  If they convert buildings 21-23 into timeshares, it would make sense that that would leave 96 hotel rooms in Building 10-16 -- that's an even 16 rooms/villas per building. 

http://www.omvillasstjohn.com/images/westin_map.gif

P.S. I just called the hotel directly, and the person who answered said that it would remain a hotel.  For what that's worth (no disrespect to the clerk).


----------



## DavidnRobin

LisaR - once again we are on the same page...

Mike Ryan stated. “What we are doing is a total exterior renovation, including new roofs, siding, windows, and doors,” he said. “We are doing upgrades to the interiors with new carpeting, paint, and soft goods. So it’s a pretty good renovation for those buildings.”

Nowhere does it mention putting in Kitchens or such (which is major) - and only mentions carpet, paint and soft goods for the interior. Does that sound like a TS conversion? Highly doubtful unless they plan to have TSs w/o kitchens.  Remember when they first discussed BV (pre-construction), they converted the hotel buildings and made them into self-contained TS villas (kitchens, etc) and were clear in their intent.

The article does not mention which specific buildings under discussion - there are multiple buildings (see WSJ map) that can be converted or just updated:
B24-B27 are in the BV phase - and still in Sales, with more villas coming on-line (currently being held back) as sales continue.

B21-B23 could be the ones that are potentially being converted to TSs.  IMO - this is the most likely scenerio.  What is unknown is whether these will be BV or their own HOA. During my WSJ Owners Update - the Sales person said that likely they will be there own HOA because BV's CCRs do not allow for additional building (of course - I take that with a grain of salt - but that doesn't mean there is not truth to this...)

B10-B16 are likely the ones being discussed in the above article. These surround the pool area - and in need of serious updating based on the outside appearance and hotel reviews.

I am taking wagers that Mike Ryan is discussing B10-B16 in this article, and they will continue as hotel rooms for the medium term at least - any takers?

Before considering making me a bet... - there is this from the WSJ website...

*Resort Advisory*
Important information that may affect your stay

Planned Pool Renovation: September 23 – December 18, 2013
There is a high probability that the main pool will be closed September 23 to December 18, 2013, as additional upgrades to the pool deck are now being considered. We anticipate the final scheduling to be approved in late August or September. Guest will have access to the resort’s beach along Great Cruz Bay.

Refurbishment Information: August 12, 2013 – November 2014
Beginning August 12, 2013, the resort will undergo refurbishment of the hotel guest rooms located by main pool, as well as to the resort’s common areas, including the conference center, main lobby and restaurant outlets. The schedule of our renovation enhancements is on a rolling timeline, so as to minimize disruption to resort guests. The resort will remain open and fully operational throughout the refurbishment.


----------



## tomandrobin

At least the pool will be done well in advance to our May trip. 

I am reading into the notice as what it is.....Hotel Renovation to those units along the pool. They are in dire need of some serious TLC.


----------



## ekinggill

I asked question about the work during my owners update.  Here is what "the closer" told me:  

-21, 22, & 23 will be converted to TS units

-all of the remaining hotel buildings, about 90 rooms I think he said, will get an exterior make over at the same time

-the patio around the resort pool, but not the interior of the pool, will be redone 

-work will start in late September or early October and should be done before we return next August

It was a TS salesman and his lips were moving, so no doubt some part if that is a lie.


----------



## Westin5Star

Swim up bar???



ekinggill said:


> I asked question about the work during my owners update.  Here is what "the closer" told me:
> 
> -21, 22, & 23 will be converted to TS units
> 
> -all of the remaining hotel buildings, about 90 rooms I think he said, will get an exterior make over at the same time
> 
> -the patio around the resort pool, but not the interior of the pool, will be redone
> 
> -work will start in late September or early October and should be done before we return next August
> 
> It was a TS salesman and his lips were moving, so no doubt some part if that is a lie.


----------



## YYJMSP

Westin5Star said:


> Swim up bar???



Only if you possess the minimum required number of luggage tags...


----------



## oneohana

YYJMSP said:


> Only if you possess the minimum required number of luggage tags...



Westin,

I would give you all of mine, but I only got 1 from SMV and it broke.


----------



## YYJMSP

oneohana said:


> Westin,
> 
> I would give you all of mine, but I only got 1 from SMV and it broke.



United broke one of my mine off, I put in a lost/found claim thingie, and they actually found it... 

Luckily it came off and stuck in the machinery at that same airport, and not some intermediate stop.


----------



## czar

For anyone that might be interested, just cancelled my reservation for Sat-Sat, President's Week, 3 bedroom villa for 196k SO (February 15-22).


----------



## LisaRex

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/westin-st-john-getting-12m-makeover-1.1529183

Re the makeover to the WSJ hotel:



> The carpeting and the wallpaper are the main indoor aesthetics that will be replaced. The exterior "shake," or the wood siding that covers the outside of the building, also will be replaced.
> 
> "It's mostly things you can see and touch," Parisi said.
> 
> "There will be no structural improvements."



That's some expensive carpet!


----------



## hefleycatz

Im going to try to trade in for 9 days around the end of May.  Looking at the Starwood "beta" system now for 8months out and also the end of May, I am seeing (low inventory) 2 bdrms.  I have never seen a 1 bdrm listed.  these are all in BV.   Will this inventory be different when I call in to make my reservation or is the on-line system pretty true inventory. (granted I know it can be gone in a minute)  I would be fine with a 2 bdrm, not much more options wise than just using my full 95,700 so thats not a problem. 

Also, for the experts, pros and cons on the Lofts vs regular two bedroom as these are the same amount of staroptions. 

I havent seen anything show up for the Hillside units, so I don't think I'll have to worry about that.  

Thanks,

lee


----------



## tomandrobin

hefleycatz said:


> Im going to try to trade in for 9 days around the end of May.  Looking at the Starwood "beta" system now for 8months out and also the end of May, I am seeing (low inventory) 2 bdrms.  I have never seen a 1 bdrm listed.  these are all in BV.   Will this inventory be different when I call in to make my reservation or is the on-line system pretty true inventory. (granted I know it can be gone in a minute)  I would be fine with a 2 bdrm, not much more options wise than just using my full 95,700 so thats not a problem.
> 
> Also, for the experts, pros and cons on the Lofts vs regular two bedroom as these are the same amount of staroptions.
> 
> I havent seen anything show up for the Hillside units, so I don't think I'll have to worry about that.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> lee



There are no 1-bedrooms in the Bay Vista section, they are all located in the Virgin Grand (hillside) section. 

The 2-bedroom lofts are huge. The loft is 1650 sq ft, sleeps 10 vs 1210 sq ft, sleeps 8. 

I saw hillside units available over the weekend.


----------



## tomandrobin

hefleycatz said:


> Im going to try to trade in for 9 days around the end of May.  Looking at the Starwood "beta" system now for 8months out and also the end of May, I am seeing (low inventory) 2 bdrms.  I have never seen a 1 bdrm listed.  these are all in BV.



FYI - Checked with Starwood. Currently, there are 3-bedroom, 2-bedroom, 2-bedroom loft, 2-bedroom lock-offs available.


----------



## hefleycatz

Thanks.  I guess Im just shocked that there would be "any" inventory left with how well loved it is.  Maybe when I call the 28th at 8:00 there will be a 1 bedroom in Hillside?.  But I might just take a 2 bdrm from BV for the location, closer to the main pool.. 

lee


----------



## hefleycatz

Where is parking for the BV villas?  I see two pads between 24-25 and 26-27.  Is that them?

lee


----------



## jarta

hefleycatz said:


> Where is parking for the BV villas?  I see two pads between 24-25 and 26-27.  Is that them?
> 
> lee



No.  Parking for the BV villas is by the tennis courts and O'Connor car rental.  No guest parking exists near the BV villas.

The areas between 24-25 and 26-27 are used for parking and turn-around for the various housekeeping, maintenance and guest shuttles.  Cars are generally not allowed on those narrow, blacktop paths.    Salty


----------



## hefleycatz

Thanks Jarta,    Now i understand all the complaints.  

Oh, well. We will only have a car part of the time there anyway.  And I guess that what the guest shuttles are for.  

lee


----------



## Henry M.

Just to put things in perspective, walking from the end of building 5 at WKORV-N to the parking lot can be further and slower than walking to the WSJ parking lot from the BV buildings. There is just a little more of a hill in St. John. You would certainly be closer to your car at the VG/Hillside buildings, but in the grand scheme of things it is not that far from BV to the parking lot.

When I was there, I preferred the newer buildings and decor of BV to the parking convenience at VG. I'd be very happy at either location, though.


----------



## hefleycatz

Sadly, we have not been to Hawaii, yet.  Someday..

lee


----------



## Henry M.

I think both locations are very nice, and getting an exchange into either one would be great. I wouldn't worry too much about whether the location you didn't get would be better. 

I got an exchange for a 1BR in VG this past April. When I got there, they had upgraded us to a 2BR at BV. My wife and I debated where we would prefer to stay, and ultimately decided we liked BV best. It is quite a ways from VG down to the main part of the hotel, the beach, restaurant, and activities.

We also found that after 3 days we didn't really need the car anymore. We turned it in early (an advantage of renting from O'Connor instead of on St. Thomas). We used the local "taxis" for a couple of days and also went on all-day excursions. BV was much more convenient for that. 

It was just 2 of us, so the taxi was actually cheaper for going to the beach and back. If there had been more people, a rental would have been more economical. We figured out what we really liked the first 3 days we had the car, and then just went to spend the day at our favorite beaches with the taxi.


----------



## czar

With 3 little kids, the parking issue was a pain, but since we used a lot of the resort amenities, we preferred the location of BV. Plus, if you have stuff you need to get to or from the car, shuttle requests only took a few minutes to fulfill. Without stuff to carry (and the kids!), the walk is not that bad at all.


----------



## hefleycatz

I will be extremely happy with whatever we get.


----------



## hefleycatz

Ok, today I am seeing much more options for the end of May and more into June than I even saw yesterday?  My earliest day that I was looking at for 9 days started on May 28th, now I can see inventory starting dates in June.   Why the jump in inventory? Owners depositing? 

My question, is it better to book starting with a week end day or in the middle of the week.  Does it matter?  Will it make a difference in where we are put?   

Thanks

lee


----------



## jarta

"Why the jump in inventory? Owners depositing?"  Perhaps.  Could also be some home resort owner who doesn't want to spend the money for airfare next year or who had guests or family members who did the same and it's a cancellation - not a deposit.  Also, nothing at WSJ is a lockoff.  Once a reservation is made, there is no ability to drop the lockoff portion.  You have to use all of your unit/week.

Most late May-June periods I checked today are listed as "low availability."  Most are for overlapping periods of time.  There may only be 1 week of vacancy for each type of "available" unit.  Once a reservation is made (only home resort reservations can be made until much later this month), all the availability for the combination of periods may be used up.

Someone who has not used their home resort reservation of a 2-br loft in BV will probably call about the 2-br loft that sleeps 10 and is available for all 3 check-in days (May 30 and 31 and June 1).   I doubt that prime unit will be available by the time StarOptions can be used.  I know that 7-day home resort reservation searches are made using the availability finder.  I do it myself.   Salty


----------



## DavidnRobin

or perhaps... the SVO/SVN database is poorly structured and linked and is archaic, and updating methods suck because of their archaic database.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Updated StJ Webcams*

http://newsofstjohn.com/webcams/


----------



## SMHarman

or perhaps fixed / fixed owners not confirming in time or releasing the fixed week.


----------



## DavidnRobin

SMHarman said:


> or perhaps fixed / fixed owners not confirming in time or releasing the fixed week.



Fix/Fix villas are pre-reserved and owners must confirm by 10 months out (not 8 months) - 10 months from now is July...


----------



## SMHarman

DavidnRobin said:


> Fix/Fix villas are pre-reserved and owners must confirm by 10 months out (not 8 months) - 10 months from now is July...


OK then, how about owners at WSJ who want to use SO to go somewhere.  The sensible owner books their own use week for the time they want to vacation 12 months out.  Now they have a vacation week guaranteed.  Then 8m out (or 8m1w for a longer trip) they book a trip with SO and cancel the WSJ week dropping it into inventory.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Ok - the WSJ fix/fix weeks are pre-booked by SVN. At anytime they can cancel that booking prior to 60 days before without restrictions and use SOs - not just at 10 months or 8 months - or whenever....  However, it is not common for WSJ-VG owners to use SOs for exchanging into other resorts via SVN (trade down in most cases) - or using II/RCI (exchange down) - or using SO-SP conversions (incredibly bad conversion - i.e. I would only get 22K SPs for my 81K SO week if I could convert).  It happens, but not that common based on conversations with other owners over the years. Most use, or rent, or do not bother going at all and allow to sit vacant (BION) - some fo use SOs (I think Transit or Tomandrobin have done this to get into HRA).  Remember that WSJ-VG has some of the highest MFs in all of SVN especially considering their SO value. I get 81K SOs (Gold+) for $2400 - Plat+ owners who get 148.1K SOs for $2400 would not be getting value since rents in Plat+ season are pretty high (~$4K).  I am sure it happens, but certainly not enough to warrant huge changes in inventory.

Also - An Owner gives up a full week Fri-Fri, Sat-Sat, Sun-Sun - this does not explain the availability in <7 day increments - or lack of availability on Fri/Sat/Sun check-ins.

However, I know for a fact that the SVO/SVN database sucks (as discussed here for years...) - so I am going with that.... YMMV


----------



## jarta

SMHarman said:


> OK then, how about owners at WSJ who want to use SO to go somewhere.  The sensible owner books their own use week for the time they want to vacation 12 months out.  Now they have a vacation week guaranteed.  Then 8m out (or 8m1w for a longer trip) they book a trip with SO and cancel the WSJ week dropping it into inventory.



Nothing beats dropping a home resort reservation made as a placeholder (or rental opportunity) and using the StarOptions to go elsewhere for more than a week using a non-check in day to start or end the vacation before a week usually starts.  

I find a week at WSJ to be too little for the time (and cost) of the travel.  I cannot fly from Chicago to St. Thomas without laying over in Miami, Charlotte or San Juan.  And, I lose hours by flying so far east.  That means leaving at 6:00 am Chicago time and still getting to the WSJ ferry later in the afternoon.  Going back to Chicago is a little easier, but using American you have to leave very early in the morning.  I feel I am losing almost 2 full days in Paradise with a reservation for only a week.

When it comes to finding availability in the SVO was it difficult or obscure before?  Sure! But it's much easier and more open now to research creative reservations using StarOptions.   The availability locator can find available reservations for up to 21 straight days.  Shrewder people with StarOptions are making better use of their current or banked StarOptions.  Obviously, hefleycatz is one of them and is willing to make a reservation more more than a week that begins on a non-check in day.

This winter I will make 2 3-week trips.  I will stay at 4 SVO resorts.  None of the 4 reservations are for just a week.  All are for 9-12 nights.  We are not stuck with making reservations for only a week.   Salty


----------



## Westin5Star

I agree with Jarta.  From the west coast, we now take a redeye (which I hate) to get to Miami in the early morning and then off to St. Thomas for the ferry ride.  

I got an idea, we should move St. John closer to the west coast and add a swim up bar!



jarta said:


> Nothing beats dropping a home resort reservation made as a placeholder (or rental opportunity) and using the StarOptions to go elsewhere for more than a week using a non-check in day to start or end the vacation before a week usually starts.
> 
> I find a week at WSJ to be too little for the time (and cost) of the travel.  I cannot fly from Chicago to St. Thomas without laying over in Miami, Charlotte or San Juan.  And, I lose hours by flying so far east.  That means leaving at 6:00 am Chicago time and still getting to the WSJ ferry later in the afternoon.  Going back to Chicago is a little easier, but using American you have to leave very early in the morning.  I feel I am losing almost 2 full days in Paradise with a reservation for only a week.
> 
> When it comes to finding availability in the SVO was it difficult or obscure before?  Sure! But it's much easier and more open now to research creative reservations using StarOptions.   The availability locator can find available reservations for up to 21 straight days.  Shrewder people with StarOptions are making better use of their current or banked StarOptions.  Obviously, hefleycatz is one of them and is willing to make a reservation more more than a week that begins on a non-check in day.
> 
> This winter I will make 2 3-week trips.  I will stay at 4 SVO resorts.  None of the 4 reservations are for just a week.  All are for 9-12 nights.  We are not stuck with making reservations for only a week.   Salty


----------



## jarta

^   For both suggested solutions:    Salty


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## islandguy

*Options (25,000) for Pool Renovation Patience*

Received this email for my stay: 

"As previously communicated, the main pool area (including Snorkel’s Bar & Grill) is scheduled to be closed September 23 to December 18, 2013, as enhancements to the pool deck are made. For all Owners with reservations in the Virgin Grand Villas phase during our main pool area refresh, you will have exclusive access to the upper hillside Iguana Pools. Additionally, the resort’s Activities Team is providing a variety of energizing activities for your enjoyment, like sand art and sand castle contests, snorkel scavenger hunts and much more along the shores of Great Cruz Bay.

As a thank you for your patience during these enhancements, you will receive a special gift of 25,000 StarOptions for future use at any Starwood Vacation NetworkSM villa resort".  Added by Island Guy:  That is 25K per week since I received 2 emails for my 2 week stay.

That is a nice thank you for the difficulty the guest will encounter at WSJ.


----------



## czar

*eBay listings*

I follow WSJ activity on ebay, and occassionally I notice these large hits of rental inventory, like today.  




wsj multiple ebay by czar44, on Flickr

I'm wondering where these come from?  These are being listed by 	englewoodlighthouseresort


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## hefleycatz

UGH.  In looking this morning on MSC, the inventory was waaaayyyy down.     I dont know if I will even be able to get 7 days now when I call Saturday.  

lee


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## SMHarman

hefleycatz said:


> UGH.  In looking this morning on MSC, the inventory was waaaayyyy down.     I dont know if I will even be able to get 7 days now when I call Saturday.
> 
> lee


Do you have enough points to call on Thursday or Friday and book 9 or 8 days?  You can always modify the booking later


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## hefleycatz

I want 9 days.  No matter where I start the date, I cant see anything for that length.  I was seeing availablity for the 28th thru the 6th and later last week. Today I cant see that.  

lee


----------



## SMHarman

hefleycatz said:


> I want 9 days.  No matter where I start the date, I cant see anything for that length.  I was seeing availablity for the 28th thru the 6th and later last week. Today I cant see that.
> 
> lee



So pick up the phone to them starting Wed 9am and keep calling each morning (they have Friday in/out units so Wed>Friday is permitted).


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## jarta

Post 1453:  "Most late May-June periods I checked today are listed as "low availability." Most are for overlapping periods of time. There may only be 1 week of vacancy for each type of "available" unit. Once a reservation is made (only home resort reservations can be made until much later this month), all the availability for the combination of periods may be used up."


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## hefleycatz

Should I go ahead and exchange for a week. I can find from 5/24-5/31., this is earlier than I wanted to go.  and I need to call today.  School ends on the 23rd.  Can I call back each day after and see if something else opens up, for either later date or longer time.  

lee


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## jarta

hefleycatz said:


> Should I go ahead and exchange for a week. I can find from 5/24-5/31., this is earlier than I wanted to go.  and I need to call today.  School ends on the 23rd.  Can I call back each day after and see if something else opens up, for either later date or longer time.
> 
> lee



Call today.  Tell the agent exactly what you want.  If exactly what you want is not available tell the agent to look for something close.  Work with the agent.

Home resort owners can reserve up to 8 months + 1 day.  Some of them do that.  Until the 8 from check-in period actually starts and the StarOptions reservation period opens up.  The situation can change quickly.  When you see Friday, Saturday and Sunday check-in reservations for more than a week with "low availability", beware!  You may be looking at one week of availability that overlaps 3 reservation periods.

Good luck finding what you want at WSJ.  If you needed to call today, you should call in about 5 minutes so that you call at exactly 9 am Eastern time.   Salty


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## hefleycatz

BOOKED!!!!!     5/24-5/31  just 7 days, but in the grand scheme of things, thats fine.  Maybe I can add a couple and the end 90 days out?  

lee


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## jarta

^   Congratulations!   Salty


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## hefleycatz

Thanks, Jarta.   I'm glad I took it yesterday.  The rep said it was the last one (?) and I didnt see anything else yesterday or today....

Now to plan...

lee


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## NerdAlert

czar said:


> I follow WSJ activity on ebay, and occassionally I notice these large hits of rental inventory, like today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wsj multiple ebay by czar44, on Flickr
> 
> I'm wondering where these come from?  These are being listed by 	englewoodlighthouseresort


Czar- Tugger owned weeks.  Let's just say we love that resort!


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## ekinggill

*Learned A New Trick This Week*

I thought I would pass along something I learned this week.

We are having trouble getting return reward tickets from STT on our checkout day, which may force us into spending 3 or 4 nights extra.  While contemplating renting a whole additional week at Marriott Frenchman's Cove on St. Thomas, it was suggested on the Marriott board that I check out http://www.vacationpointexchange.com

Marriott has a point system where their owners can book individual nights at any resort in system.  The points are frequently monetized at a rate around 65 cents per point.  Long and short, I joined for free, sent a couple of PMs, and I quickly had multiple offers for less then $300 a night to make me a reservation in a 2 BR / 2 BA unit at Frenchman's Cove. 

If you are not a Marriott owner the seller has to make the reservation for you.  (If you own Marriott, you probably already know about this.)  Not everyone I contacted was willing to do that...most want to just quickly and cleanly sell points.  But still...in four hours I found multiple people willing to hook me up for a couple extra nights.

fine print:  this isn't an add.  I don't own Marriott or the website.  Use it at your own risk.  I just thought it was good info for WSJ folks who might want to add a day or two in STT on the front or back end.


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## DavidnRobin

*New WSJ Phase - Coral Vista Villas*

From WSJ/SVN email today - 

_*Introducing Coral Vista Villas*
Buildings 21, 22 and 23 in the lower hillside section will be converted to 54 spacious studio and two-bedroom villas overlooking Great Cruz Bay. What you can expect:

• Stylish and contemporary furnishings 
• Sales begin this October 
• Construction to begin this December 
• Occupancy will begin January 2015 with final completion expected April 2015 
• Once completed, there will be 200 vacation ownership villas at the resort. 

*Resort Enhancements*
With the guest experience at the forefront, Starwood Hotels and Resorts, Inc. is funding a renovation to enhance your resort. The project will follow a rolling timeline to ensure a continued level of comfort. Updates include:

• New main resort pool deck with more seating 
• Refresh of 96 poolside rooms, meeting space, watersports area and WestinWORKOUT® facilities 
• Updates to lobby, dockside check-in, airport lounge and dining facilities 
• Solar panel installation 

It’s an exciting time at The Westin St. John Resort & Villas. As an Owner here, you’re the first to know about an extensive renovation project that will solidify your resort as one of the premier destinations in the Caribbean. I am pleased to announce that we will be converting select hotel rooms to villas for the new Coral Vista Villas phase. Additionally, a variety of enhancements are being made throughout the entire resort for your future enjoyment.

We appreciate your patience during this journey to elevate the resort experience. Please look for additional information in the next couple of days._


----------



## Carolyn

And this is what we have to look forward to on our upcoming 2 week vacation for Weeks 44 and 45 in Bldg. 34:

1.	Main pool CLOSED
2.	Hot Tub CLOSED
3.	Snorkels CLOSED
4.	Ferry Dock CLOSED…WHAT ABOUT EXTRA SHOPPING TRIPS TO ST      THOMAS??
5.	All common areas including restaurant outlets, main lobby and conference center CLOSED
6.	We will have to travel back and forth between the Cruz Bay ferry terminal 
7.	OPEN-The actual Beach AND The Beach Café & Bar (Gee thanks)

And for our inconvenience.....25,000 Star Options (which I don't need) but they will be charging the same price for the RT ferry. I have been assured non Virgin Grand hillside owners will NOT be allowed to use our pool. If I sound annoyed....I am. Last year was the first time in 5 years we were not inconvenienced by something going on at the resort that affected our vacation. So here we go again!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

Carolyn said:


> And this is what we have to look forward to on our upcoming 2 week vacation for Weeks 44 and 45 in Bldg. 34:
> 
> 1.	Main pool CLOSED
> 2.	Hot Tub CLOSED
> 3.	Snorkels CLOSED
> 4.	Ferry Dock CLOSED…WHAT ABOUT EXTRA SHOPPING TRIPS TO ST      THOMAS??
> 5.	All common areas including restaurant outlets, main lobby and conference center CLOSED
> 6.	We will have to travel back and forth between the Cruz Bay ferry terminal
> 7.	OPEN-The actual Beach AND The Beach Café & Bar (Gee thanks)
> 
> And for our inconvenience.....25,000 Star Options (which I don't need) but they will be charging the same price for the RT ferry. I have been assured non Virgin Grand hillside owners will NOT be allowed to use our pool. If I sound annoyed....I am. Last year was the first time in 5 years we were not inconvenienced by something going on at the resort that affected our vacation. So here we go again!!



Yikes - I did not realize all of those would be closed at once - that really sucks.  I am more sympathetic to the BV people using the Hillside pools during this time of renovation (probably because I am not there) - but I do agree that BV doesn't pay for these pools (we do) and therefore should not (normally) be allowed to use them.  I have planned to write Phil about this as I heard it occurring during our last visit (groups of BV folks invading our pool and using our BBQs).

Ferry Dock closed? More reason to rent a car on StT and take car barge over... 

Not to add to the grief, but all of the NPS beaches are shut down as long as the Gov't is shut down. I hope it is resolved by Weeks 44-45, but given the [situation in DC] - it may go on for a while.
[ ] = not saying what I really want to say since it will get stricken by the TUG Mods (like on the TUG Lounge) - but feel free to look at my comment in the following link concerning the NPS beach closures in StJ

http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/10/01/government-shutdown-effects/

Essentially all of the worthwhile beaches on StJ are closed, including the adjacent waters...

I thought they were giving 25K SPs - not SOs (how would they credit SOs?)


----------



## Carolyn

DavidnRobin said:


> Yikes - I did not realize all of those would be closed at once - that really sucks.  I am more sympathetic to the BV people using the Hillside pools during this time of renovation (probably because I am not there) - but I do agree that BV doesn't pay for these pools (we do) and therefore should not (normally) be allowed to use them.  I have planned to write Phil about this as I heard it occurring during our last visit (groups of BV folks invading our pool and using our BBQs).
> 
> Ferry Dock closed? More reason to rent a car on StT and take car barge over...
> 
> Not to add to the grief, but all of the NPS beaches are shut down as long as the Gov't is shut down. I hope it is resolved by Weeks 44-45, but given the [situation in DC] - it may go on for a while.
> [ ] = not saying what I really want to say since it will get stricken by the TUG Mods (like on the TUG Lounge) - but feel free to look at my comment in the following link concerning the NPS beach closures in StJ
> 
> http://newsofstjohn.com/2013/10/01/government-shutdown-effects/
> 
> Essentially all of the worthwhile beaches on StJ are closed, including the adjacent waters...
> 
> I thought they were giving 25K SPs - not SOs (how would they credit SOs?)



From Suzanne Clark, VP of Owner Services:

_As a thank you for your patience during these enhancements, you will receive a special gift of 25,000 StarOptions for future use at any Starwood Vacation NetworkSM villa resort.

_

I received bits and pieces of this renovation starting back in June. SVO and WSJ were very clever in delivering this information to owners affected by this renovation. I was also assured that they would have Security up at the Hillside Pools to make sure that only those owners were using them. Not really sure how they are going to enforce this. It should pretty much be a ghost town by the beach. Would anyone really want to rent a hotel room there during this time? They are really playing it up saying they will have lots of fun activities at the beach


----------



## DavidnRobin

Carolyn said:


> From Suzanne Clark, VP of Owner Services:
> 
> _As a thank you for your patience during these enhancements, you will receive a special gift of 25,000 StarOptions for future use at any Starwood Vacation NetworkSM villa resort.
> 
> _
> 
> I received bits and pieces of this renovation starting back in June. SVO and WSJ were very clever in delivering this information to owners affected by this renovation. I was also assured that they would have Security up at the Hillside Pools to make sure that only those owners were using them. Not really sure how they are going to enforce this. It should pretty much be a ghost town by the beach. Would anyone really want to rent a hotel room there during this time? They are really playing it up saying they will have lots of fun activities at the beach



At least 25K SOs is worth more than 25K SPs - but not much if you can't use them.

As an Owner who (so far) is not affected by the renovations - I am glad they are doing these - especially if Starwood is paying for the Resort Enhancements and not the VGV HOA (if true).


----------



## Ken555

Wow - if this happened to me, I would cancel the trip.


----------



## tomandrobin

Ken555 said:


> Wow - if this happened to me, I would cancel the trip.



Nah.....Most of our time is spent off-property vs spending time at the actual resort. I would still recommend going, unless you spend a lot of time at the resort.


----------



## Carolyn

I am sure WSJ knew about these renovations last year. I am just not happy the way they "timed" the emails and what "might" be affected. It was a couple of weeks ago I realized this. We will miss the Hot Tub the most!


----------



## LisaRex

Carolyn said:


> I am sure WSJ knew about these renovations last year. I am just not happy the way they "timed" the emails and what "might" be affected. It was a couple of weeks ago I realized this. We will miss the Hot Tub the most!



Aw man, that would really stink.  So sorry! The only good news is that everything should  be refurbished next year.


----------



## Carolyn

LisaRex said:


> Aw man, that would really stink.  So sorry! The only good news is that everything should  be refurbished next year.



Thanks Lisa. Even though we go on about 4-5 timeshare trips a year, this is our only 2 week trip AND the one I look forward to the most. I am just surprised they didn't do things in stages instead of closing everything at the same time. And what about all the employees that will be laid off because of this? I pay the same maintenance fees as the owners who own super high season. My weeks 44 and 45 (first 2 weeks in November) are Platinum weeks. It will be great when it is done. WSJ Facebook page is promoting "specials" at the hotel during this time....really?? I not only feel bad for those owners in Bay Vista but others who have rented from owners. They will be in for a big surprise if the owners have not relayed all the emails about the renovation


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## DavidnRobin

*WSJ VGV StarOption and StarPoint increased for 2015*

WSJ VGV just increased the SOs and SPs for 2015 usage


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> Nah.....Most of our time is spent off-property vs spending time at the actual resort. I would still recommend going, unless you spend a lot of time at the resort.



North side beaches are closed due to Gov't shutdown - however, this is being challenged by people living on StJ... another story.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*New BV StarOption and StarPoint chart for 2015*

New BV WSJ SO and SP chart for 2015


----------



## DavidnRobin

DavidnRobin said:


> North side beaches are closed due to Gov't shutdown - however, this is being challenged by people living on StJ... another story.



Beaches are back open as of yesterday


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## DavidnRobin

Thread links to the CV phase and SO adjustments for WSJ

CV Phase
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199853

SO adjustment
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199977


----------



## DavidnRobin

*2014 WSJ-VGV MFs - Proposed*

Studio: $1430.00
1Bd: $1906.74
2Bd TH: $2383.47 [2013: $2405.94]
2Bd Prem: $2860.02
3Bd Pool: $2860.22


----------



## Carolyn

DavidnRobin said:


> Studio: $1430.00
> 1Bd: $1906.74
> 2Bd TH: $2383.47 2-Bd [2013: $2405.94]
> 2Bd Prem: $2860.02
> 3Bd Pool: $2860.22



Where did you find this info? Thanks.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Carolyn said:


> Where did you find this info? Thanks.



It was mailed to me from WSJ VGV BOD.


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Studio: $1430.00
> 1Bd: $1906.74
> 2Bd TH: $2383.47 2-Bd [2013: $2405.94]
> 2Bd Prem: $2860.02
> 3Bd Pool: $2860.22



I got my proposed mf for the Bay Vista units yesterday. I will post tonight when I get home from work.


----------



## tomandrobin

2014 WSJ BV - Proposed budget of operating expenses

Condominium Common Maintenance & Reserve

2 bedroom - $679.98
2 bedroom loft - $773.06
3 bedroom - $819.61

Vacation Ownership Maintenance & Reserve

2 bedroom - $1087.22
2 bedroom loft - $1236.05
3 bedroom - $1310.47

Total

2 bedroom - $1767.20
2 bedroom loft - $2009.11
3 bedroom - $2130.08


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## DavidnRobin

Wow - I guess extra MFs for VGV go to the BBQ/Pool area at ~$100/day...


----------



## Henry M.

The BV fees also include the property tax. I got an e-mail several weeks ago saying to ignore any tax bills for BV since it is paid by the HOA. 

I didn't realize how much difference there was in the MF between these two sections. I'm debating now whether to convert my EOY unit to EY.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Currently - the property tax for our Wk23-24 2Bd TH villa is ~$130/year per week (1999 levels) - this could rise as high as ~$300 in the near future (hopefully not, but like Maui - taxation w/o representation makes it challenging to not get screwed...)


----------



## DavidnRobin

Yikes - eBay sale of 3 weeks (20, 21, 22) for a 3Bd pool villa for ~$11K total as a Buy It Now (or Best Offer) - all closing costs paid - only SOs for 2014 as Owner did not fix weeks in time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370925043036#ht_3223wt_1234

I am not the seller, but someone looking for 3 weeks in a pool villa during a great time of year - quite a deal if one can handle MFs and property taxes.


----------



## carpie99

DavidnRobin said:


> Yikes - eBay sale of 3 weeks (20, 21, 22) for a 3Bd pool villa for ~$11K total as a Buy It Now (or Best Offer) - all closing costs paid - only SOs for 2014 as Owner did not fix weeks in time.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370925043036#ht_3223wt_1234
> 
> I am not the seller, but someone looking for 3 weeks in a pool villa during a great time of year - quite a deal if one can handle MFs and property taxes.



Damn I wonder if this sold ... WOW


----------



## DavidnRobin

carpie99 said:


> Damn I wonder if this sold ... WOW



I believe it did - it shows up on my mobile eBay app as sold, but not website. I wish I knew 4 additional people who could go to WSJ for 3 weeks every year...


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ VGV (Hillside) - BOD letter (Nov, 2013)*

Once again - I cannot convey how much the WSJ VGV BOD members Phil and Bob do (and have done) for our HOA
*****

November 2013

Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Owner:

Maintenance fee going down again but value still going up

As your owner-elected representatives on the Board of Directors, we recently participated in a meeting to establish the budget for 2014. The very good news is that despite very significant increases in the cost of property insurance and electricity, and despite the fact that Starwood is now billing our Owners association for several costs that it has up to now absorbed, the maintenance fee will not go up in 2014. In fact, it will go down by a small amount -- on the average $20.31 per unit week, the 4th consecutive reduction.

Increased costs

Our property insurance carrier reappraised the value of the buildings for the first time since July 2001. The appraised value has gone up from $25.9 million to $46.4 million since the prior appraisal. As you know, we have made very significant improvements during the past few years, so it is no surprise that the value has increased. Our insurance cost has increased in three ways: (a) we have to pay for insurance based on the higher value, (b) our insurance premiums have increased by 7% (an average increase of nearly $43 per unit week), and (c) because our deductible in the event of hurricane destruction is 5% of the higher appraised value, the maintenance fee will include $60.21 per year per unit week (on average) until about 2020, rather than until 2016, to fund a $2.3 million hurricane contingency reserve. This reserve fund is intended to avoid a special assessment in the event of a catastrophic hurricane.

The cost of electricity purchased from the power company on St. John continues to climb with no end in sight. It is now 48 cents per kilowatt-hour, compared to 41 cents a year ago. Currently, the average cost of electricity for each unit week exceeds $200; it is a very substantial component of the maintenance fee. As you know, we foresaw these increases and therefore made the units far more energy efficient during the recent renovations and installed photo-voltaic cells on the roofs of buildings 41 through 44 to defray some of the costs. The cumulative average savings per unit week since 2008 has amounted to $115. But the existing photo-voltaic arrays are relatively small, generating less than 5% of the energy needs of Virgin Grand. We are therefore considering two much more ambitious initiatives. The first could involve installing microturbines in the vacant space behind the fence that runs along the left side of the road going up the hillside. They would run on propane, would be out of sight, and would not generate audible noise. Management estimates that they could potentially generate all of the electricity that Virgin Grand needs at a cost (given the current price of propane) of only about 32 cents per kilowatt hour. The association could borrow from the reserve fund to install the microturbines, without raising maintenance fees, provided that the savings from their use is plowed back into the reserve fund until their costs are recovered; that is, for a period of about 7 years, after which we would realize the savings year after year. In addition, we are exploring installation of photo-voltaic cells on the roofs of the hillside buildings and in a ground-based array on the hillside below buildings 31 and 32. A third party vendor has offered to install those solar cells at no cost to the Owners association or to Starwood, provided that we contract with them to purchase the electricity from it at 29 cents per kilowatt hour in the first year, increasing by 2.5% per year. At that rate, it will be many years before we would be paying as much as the power company currently charges, and the power company’s rates may of course increase even more. We are investigating whether the ground array can be built in such a way that it will be largely out of sight, and to the extent it is visible from the patios of buildings 31 and 32, not unduly unsightly.

New billings from Starwood

We pay 28.66% of certain costs for resort facilities that are shared with Bay Vista and the hotel. For example, we pay for 28.66% of the costs of running the fitness center, because our units comprise 28.66% of the units at the resort. But until now, Starwood has not billed the association for certain costs that are attributable to our portion of shared services and facilities. For example, we benefit from the water treatment plant, but we have never paid for any portion of the amount that Starwood puts into a reserve account for replacement of the water treatment plant and other capital structures related to water. Similarly, we have not paid, until now, for electricity in the common areas, such as lighting the tennis courts at night or the pathways on the resort side of the property. And we have not, until now, paid for a share of the salary of the resort’s human resources administrator. Starwood is going to be billing us for these costs beginning in 2014, and we have budgeted to include them.

Although we are incurring these added costs (and various cost of living increases, such as in the wages of the housekeepers), the maintenance fee is decreasing slightly because of cost efficiencies throughout the resort. Some staff positions have been consolidated and others are being eliminated. One change that you will notice is that the security guard’s booth at the entrance to Virgin Grand is being replaced by a keycard-operated device that you will use to raise a gate arm to allow access for vehicular traffic. A security guard will be watching the entrance from the other side of the main road. We were paying for the guards on our side of the road; Starwood will be paying for the guard on its side of the road.

Improvements

Notwithstanding the reduction in the maintenance fee, Owners will see some modest improvements. In particular, we have budgeted for high-speed internet rather than “basic” internet service. During 2013, we heard from many Owners that unless they paid more than $10 a day for enhanced internet service, they could not watch even short videos, such as YouTube videos, on their computers. We will now provide the highest level of premium service without charge to villa occupants, although hotel guests will still have to pay for premium service.

Another change of interest is that Starwood is converting more hotel rooms into timeshare units, in a new phase of development to be called “Coral Vista.” As hotel rooms are converted, the number of units on the hotel side of the property will decrease somewhat, and that will increase (from 28.66%) the percentage of common costs (for the big pool, the fitness center, etc.) that we pay. However, because the resort will become even more of a flagship destination, Starwood is increasing the number of StarOptions associated with each of our units. That won’t affect Owners who vacation only in St. John, but it will significantly increase the trading value of our units when we exchange into other SVO resorts. The new development will be points-based rather than weeks-based, and Starwood will enable us to purchase points for cash. Such purchases would enable us to stay an extra day or two in a villa at the Westin St. John at the beginning or end of a week-long villa stay. Depending on what the airlines do, that could enable Owners with Saturday or Sunday check-in days to save money by flying on a weekday rather than a weekend day.

Delinquencies

We are still able to collect only about 95% of maintenance fees, and Owners must collectively pay the fixed costs for the 5% who are delinquent. Those Owners are locked out of their units, and for the past few years we have been filing liens against their units, initiating foreclosure proceedings, and selling the foreclosed units to new Owners. The recent bargain sale to Virgin Grand Owners resulted in the sale of 38 units. As soon as closings are completed on those sales, we will begin receiving maintenance fees from the new Owners. We are working with attorneys to foreclose on additional units, and we expect to hold another bargain sale in 2014.

Owner exchange bulletin board

A great deal of progress has been made on creating a password-protected bulletin board on which Owners can advertise units for rent, sale, or exchange (and list weeks that they want to rent or buy). The system is now in beta-testing, and we hope to put it on line late in the first quarter of 2014 or very soon thereafter. We think that Owners will be very pleased to be able to exchange with each other without having to go through Starwood, and also to have this ability to list their units for rent or sale without going through a real estate agent.

Property tax bills

Several Owners have asked us why the government of the Virgin Islands sends our tax bills to Starwood, which then has to sort nearly 4,300 bills and forward them to us. The answer is that the Virgin Islands tax office simply doesn’t have the manpower or equipment to keep up with the changes in ownership of timeshare resorts (and changes of addresses of Owners who continue to own for many years). So, unfortunately, these bills are likely to pass through the hands of SVO for many years to come. However, the Virgin Islands government does seem to be plowing through its prior-year backlog, so we should not have another year like this one, in which we received the bills for several tax years.

Freecycle shed

Owners have generally liked the freecycle shed, even though sometimes it is full of equipment and sometimes it is nearly empty. When one of us (Schrag) checked out of his unit in late June there were 13 beach chairs in the shed, an all-time high in his experience. If a few dozen Owners would contribute a beach chair or a water toy during the coming year, we would have a wealth of shareable items in the shed. We have made several changes to make the shed work better. First, we have purchased it, so we no longer are paying rental fees. Second, we are putting it on supports during 2014, which will add to its longevity. Finally, a lock has been installed on the shed. Only Virgin Grand unit room keys, and those of management and of the person who cleans the shed, will open this lock. We hope that this will ensure that only residents of Virgin Grand will be able to remove items from the shed.

Lawsuits

Here is a status report on the two lawsuits that we had previously reported to you. The relatively small dispute with a waterproofing contractor who had previously worked on some of the renovations has been settled on terms with which we all are comfortable. The lawsuit brought by some Owners against Starwood and our Owners association seeking (among other things) to rescind the affiliation agreement between our resort and Starwood, is presently on hold. Both Starwood and our Owners association filed motions to dismiss the case and we were confident that the case would be dismissed based on our motion. However, in July, before the court could rule on the motions, the plaintiffs’ lawyer suddenly died. We do not know whether the plaintiffs will retain a new lawyer or decide not to proceed with the lawsuit.

Checking out

Finally, a word on late checkouts. Just as we have urged (and will continue to urge ) our fellow Owners to keep down those high energy costs by turning up the air conditioner and turning out the lights when you are not in the unit, we now urge you to check out of your unit by 10:00 a.m. as our agreement with the resort requires. Part of our maintenance fee expense is going toward extra cleaning staff who have to come in on weekends because some Owners do not check out on time, resulting in a crush of room-cleaning work in the early afternoon, before the new occupants are due to check into their rooms. In addition, some Owners leave their units in such a disordered and dirty condition that extra cleaning staff is required. Management has not charged for extra time when Owners stay beyond the designated 10:00 a.m. checkout time, but is likely to have to do so if the costs for additional housekeeping continue. So please, (a) leave your unit in reasonable shape for a fast cleanup, (b) check out on time, and (c) don’t forget a gratuity for the hardworking housekeeping staff – and perhaps something extra if you are leaving a great deal of trash behind.

We look forward to seeing many of you in St. John, perhaps at the annual Owners’ meeting, which in 2014 will be held on March 3.

Philip G. Schrag
phil.schrag@gmail.com  Robert Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com


----------



## DavidnRobin

might be useful for those that rent snorkel gear and find Cruz Bay Sports at WSJ too expensive

http://viecotours.rezgo.com/details/58082/snorkel-rental-pickup-in-cruz-bay-st-john


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## DavidnRobin

2014 MFs bills for WSJ-VGV (Hillside) have been issued.

For our villa type (2Bd TH) the 2014 MFs are $2383.47/week
This represents a 0.91% decrease, and is the 3rd year of decreasing MFs (all the while keeping the Replacement Reserves replenished).


----------



## OKPACIFIC

*Pool Villas*

Which  pool villa units have the best view of Cruz bay?


----------



## czar

OKPACIFIC said:


> Which  pool villa units have the best view of Cruz bay?



Just from walking around up there, I didn't get the impression that any would have a view but have never been inside one.


----------



## OKPACIFIC

czar said:


> Just from walking around up there, I didn't get the impression that any would have a view but have never been inside one.



Thank you Czar. That is good to know as view is real important to us. So I guess that the hillside units would be better for that criteria. Enjoy your stay! John


----------



## czar

We toured a studio hillside unit while we were there. We were really impressed and the view = incredible. 

If we were single, we'd be Hill people. Our kids have us in BV so we're closer to the pool. Not quite the same view but here's where you BBQ


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## DavidnRobin

Our travel friends need to catch an 8AM flight (Friday) at STT and leave time to get thru Immigration/Customs?

Has anyone been able to make this flight leaving from WSJ in the early morning (Westin ferry or public ferry?)
Or does one need to stay on StT the nite before?


----------



## GregT

czar said:


> We toured a studio hillside unit while we were there. We were really impressed and the view = incredible.
> 
> If we were single, we'd be Hill people. Our kids have us in BV so we're closer to the pool. Not quite the same view but here's where you BBQ
> 
> View attachment 1494



Wow -- do all Hillside Studios have this view, or just specific buildings?  That's a terrific view!

Thanks!


----------



## DavidnRobin

View from our building (34) - June 2013


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## LisaH

DavidnRobin said:


> Our travel friends need to catch an 8AM flight (Friday) at STT and leave time to get thru Immigration/Customs?
> 
> Has anyone been able to make this flight leaving from WSJ in the early morning (Westin ferry or public ferry?)
> Or does one need to stay on StT the nite before?



They better stay on STT near the airport the night before. The first public ferry leaves Red Hook at 6 am. 
Our friends booked 8 am flight initially, then switched to a later one due to the same concern.


----------



## czar

GregT said:


> Wow -- do all Hillside Studios have this view, or just specific buildings?  That's a terrific view!
> 
> Thanks!



Greg, just to clarify, that's a view from the BV grilling area, NOT hillside.  I found the Hillside views to be more expansive, the BV views "closer."  Our BV unit had a decent view blacked by lots of foliage.


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## DavidnRobin

I figured it was from BV - or telescopic lens (but still wrong angle)
I have some crazy photos from Hillside that I will repost (just for fun) if I can still find - and it has been very quiet nowadays on this forum.

the pool/BBQ area next to the Hillside buildings is closer than BV is to main pool - albeit much, much smaller and no Bar, but quieter and less crowded (mostly) - 25 steps from our front door

anyone else got feedback for post #1510?


----------



## Henry M.

Having been through StT check-in and security, I would definitely spend the night on STT. It can be a zoo, and you really should be at the airport more than an hour before departure. Leaving StJ at 6:00 probably won't be enough time.


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## clsmit

OKPACIFIC said:


> Which  pool villa units have the best view of Cruz bay?



To confirm what others have said, none of the Pool Villa units have a view of the bay. They are in trees and on a flatter part of the hill.


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## OKPACIFIC

clsmit said:


> To confirm what others have said, none of the Pool Villa units have a view of the bay. They are in trees and on a flatter part of the hill.



Thank you clsmit. View is important to us, so I'm now trying to figure out the Hillside VGV section as to the best building and best unit for a view from a 2br or 2br townhouse


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## Joshadelic

It wasn't our first choice, but I was able to snag a 3br villa at WSJ for 2 consecutive weeks from 8/8/14 to 8/22/14 (250,000 Staroptions). I've been trying almost every day to get something for next year at Harborside, but every morning that I called all of the units were gone by the time I actually got to talk to an agent.

So my question to any of you that have been to WSJ is - should I rent those weeks and try to find something at Harborside with the proceeds from the rental or should we just use the weeks ourselves? We would be taking my mom for her 60th birthday, so it would be my wife and our 2 kids (15 and 16) plus my mom and dad. I thought Harborside would be a much better place to take them, but I've never been to WSJ, so I'm just not sure.

Thoughts anyone?


----------



## LisaRex

HRA and WSJ are almost polar opposites in terms of experience.  I've never been to HRA but I've heard it described as Disney on the Caribbean.  Tons of activities for kids to do, tons of restaurants, shops nearby, etc.  Very expensive food costs as there are no grills or ovens in the timeshares.  

WSJ, on the other hand, is quite sedate.  Something like 65% of the island is a national park, so it really is a nature lover's paradise.  If you love sitting by the pool and relaxing, sitting at a beach, snorkeling and hiking, this is a great place to be.  But it's definitely a  "make your own fun" kind of place.


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## DavidnRobin

ahem... renting non-Home Resort SOs is against SVN regulations (yes, it goes on) and shouldn't be announced here.

If you want to know if WSJ fits your needs - read this thread (in reverse) to get a flavor of the StJ experience.  There are many trip reports with threads linked - and other tidbits - and photos and videos (I and others have a bunch on YouTube - mine are under blujahz).

StJ is great and WSJ is a fine resort - with plenty of options for staying there (VGV, BV and soon CV). StJ is all about beaches and water activities (and relaxing) - our trip usually involves going to a beach and spending the day - also plenty of hiking if you can handle heat/humidity.  The 3Bd pool villas are great - I only wish we had more people willing to trek there from CA (and had the $$$).  I can't speak for HRA - I like to gamble and water parks, but do not need to go to the Bahamas to do so.

StJ is not for everybody that is for sure.


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## Joshadelic

DavidnRobin said:


> ahem... renting non-Home Resort SOs is against SVN regulations



Since when?


----------



## DavidnRobin

Since inception... people do it - but according to SVN section of CCRs it is not allowed (clear) - it has been discussed on the forum. Enforcement is another topic.


----------



## DavidnRobin

What is name of hotel by STT? Along that nice looking beach. Travel friends have smartly decided not to risk making it from WSJ to STT for an 8AM flight.

Did anyone notice that the Westin ferry reduced their runs?

and... The pool and surrounds have been refurbished.


----------



## LisaH

DavidnRobin said:


> What is name of hotel by STT? Along that nice looking beach. Travel friends have smartly decided not to risk making it from WSJ to STT for an 8AM flight.
> 
> Did anyone notice that the Westin ferry reduced their runs?
> 
> and... The pool and surrounds have been refurbished.



There is a Best Western right by the airport. The Beach looked nice. 
Your friends have made a wise decision.


----------



## czar

Joshadelic said:


> It wasn't our first choice, but I was able to snag a 3br villa at WSJ for 2 consecutive weeks from 8/8/14 to 8/22/14 (250,000 Staroptions). I've been trying almost every day to get something for next year at Harborside, but every morning that I called all of the units were gone by the time I actually got to talk to an agent.
> 
> So my question to any of you that have been to WSJ is - should I rent those weeks and try to find something at Harborside with the proceeds from the rental or should we just use the weeks ourselves? We would be taking my mom for her 60th birthday, so it would be my wife and our 2 kids (15 and 16) plus my mom and dad. I thought Harborside would be a much better place to take them, but I've never been to WSJ, so I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thoughts anyone?



One thought is that this is the last summer you'll get that rate @ 125k SO. Unless Harborside increases as well, you'll need a lot more options summer 2015 for WSJ as compared to Harborside, so maybe take advantage of that. 

We love WSJ! Beautiful, laid back island.


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## ekinggill

*Early flight out of STT*



DavidnRobin said:


> What is name of hotel by STT? Along that nice looking beach. Travel friends have smartly decided not to risk making it from WSJ to STT for an 8AM flight.
> 
> Did anyone notice that the Westin ferry reduced their runs?
> 
> and... The pool and surrounds have been refurbished.



Just saw your posts.  We had a 8 AM departure on our first trip there.  If your friends take the Westin Breeze, they will get them a water taxi / cab to get them to the airport in time.  I think it departed the resort at 5 AM, but our water taxi had just the two of us on it and when we got to STT there was a cab waiting.  We paid no extra and made it with plenty of time to spare.


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## steve1000

*WSJ main pool renovation is completed*

We will be at WSJ the second week of January and just received an email from management that the main pool renovation and 5 of the Poolside and Beachfront buildings are completed. A friend of ours was there mid-December and said the pool renovation was not completed at that time. She told us she would be surprised if it was ready for our arrival but they must have done all they could to have it completed for the holidays.


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## DavidnRobin

According to the WSJ Facebook page - pool is finished


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## okwiater

Does the WSJ Hillside Pool Villa sleep 8 or 10? I always thought it was 10 but according to starwoodvacationnetwork.com, it's 8.

https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/the-westin-st-john-resort-villas/villas/#floorplan-12

Also, the floorplan doesn't show a hot tub but when I stayed in one there was a hot tub next to the pool.


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## ekinggill

*Pics of pool update*

Does anyone have pics or know a web site where pics of the refresh of the resort might be?


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## SMHarman

okwiater said:


> Does the WSJ Hillside Pool Villa sleep 8 or 10? I always thought it was 10 but according to starwoodvacationnetwork.com, it's 8.
> 
> https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/the-westin-st-john-resort-villas/villas/#floorplan-12
> 
> Also, the floorplan doesn't show a hot tub but when I stayed in one there was a hot tub next to the pool.


Bay Vista sleeps 10.
https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/the-westin-st-john-resort-villas/villas/#floorplan-4


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## SMHarman

ekinggill said:


> Does anyone have pics or know a web site where pics of the refresh of the resort might be?



https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork...?IM=OWNCOM_ENEWS_LNK_201311_SVN_WSJCORALVISTA


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## SMHarman

czar said:


> One thought is that this is the last summer you'll get that rate @ 125k SO. Unless Harborside increases as well, you'll need a lot more options summer 2015 for WSJ as compared to Harborside, so maybe take advantage of that.
> 
> We love WSJ! Beautiful, laid back island.



Of course as Denise said earlier those who make the rules can change and break the rules but the last two times Starwood changed the StarOption requirements were when they were in active sales at a new development at a resort (Cancun and WSJ-CV respectively).  

Unless Phase 3 HRA breaks ground (is there such a thing?) then I would anticipate the SO for HRA to remain the same.


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## czar

We're just wrapping up a week in captiva - we own weeks 51 & 52 here - and we love it. But all of us (those who can talk, at least) agree that WSJ  is better. August can't come fast enough!


----------



## bobpark56

okwiater said:


> Does the WSJ Hillside Pool Villa sleep 8 or 10? I always thought it was 10 but according to starwoodvacationnetwork.com, it's 8.
> 
> https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/the-westin-st-john-resort-villas/villas/#floorplan-12
> 
> Also, the floorplan doesn't show a hot tub but when I stayed in one there was a hot tub next to the pool.



There are 2 different floor plans for the pool villas. Ours (4215) does not have a hot tub (this is as I understand it...we have stayed in 2 other pool villas, but not yet in our own). I believe that only the 2 newer buildings (43xx & 44XX) have hot tubs.

Westin claims that our unit sleeps 10. That would be with the living room couch being used as a fold-out bed. Also, 4 people would share the bedroom upstairs that has 2 beds.

We will have 6 adults there this year, and our villa will do that quite comfortably.


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## DavidnRobin

ekinggill said:


> Does anyone have pics or know a web site where pics of the refresh of the resort might be?



Facebook - add them


----------



## ekinggill

DavidnRobin said:


> Facebook - add them



Yes...I've seen the FB picks of people standing around the pool...I can't really tell what they did from those pics.


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## ekinggill

*Cafe Roma reopens!*

At long last Cafe Roma reopens tonight.

https://www.facebook.com/stjohncaferoma/posts/10152872010877281


----------



## Politico

I booked a partial spring 2014 week at WSJ in a 3 bedroom villa with staroptions. Two Starwood reps told me that I will be in VG phase in a 3br pool villa, which is what I want.  My confirmation says that the unit sleeps 10. However, starwoodvacationiwnership.com states that 3br VG pool villas sleep 8. I'm confused because the reps were insistent that I'll be in VG.  

Although I know Starwood reserves the right to modify the phase in placed in, right now, any idea where am I going to be???


----------



## ferndale

Politico said:


> I booked a partial spring 2014 week at WSJ in a 3 bedroom villa with staroptions. Two Starwood reps told me that I will be in VG phase in a 3br pool villa, which is what I want.  My confirmation says that the unit sleeps 10. However, starwoodvacationiwnership.com states that 3br VG pool villas sleep 8. I'm confused because the reps were insistent that I'll be in VG.
> 
> Although I know Starwood reserves the right to modify the phase in placed in, right now, any idea where am I going to be???




I am sure there are others more knowledgeable than I about this, but I can tell you the bed arrangement in our 3 bed pool villa.  We are in building 44, which is one of the buildings with the permanent walls upstairs, and 3.5 baths, and the jacuzzi by the pool (as opposed to 2.5 baths in building 41 and 42).  Master down has king, living room has pull out sofa.  Upstairs one bedroom has king and own bathroom.  Other bedroom has 2 doubles or queens (can't remember as I didn't sleep there) and its own bathroom.  You could only sleep 10 if there were 2 persons in every bed.  We absolutely love these villas!!!


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## okwiater

Now I'm really confused about the pool villas!



bobpark56 said:


> There are 2 different floor plans for the pool villas. Ours (4215) does not have a hot tub (this is as I understand it...we have stayed in 2 other pool villas, but not yet in our own). I believe that only the 2 newer buildings (43xx & 44XX) have hot tubs.
> 
> Westin claims that our unit sleeps 10. That would be with the living room couch being used as a fold-out bed. Also, 4 people would share the bedroom upstairs that has 2 beds.


 
In the older buildings 41 & 42 is there actually a bedroom with two beds? The floorplan on the SVN site shows only one bed in each bedroom. Is the square footage or living space meaningfully different between the older and newer buildings?



ferndale said:


> We are in building 44, which is one of the buildings with the permanent walls upstairs


 
What do you mean by permanent walls? How does that differ from the other buildings that don't have permanent walls?



ferndale said:


> and 3.5 baths, and the jacuzzi by the pool (as opposed to 2.5 baths in building 41 and 42). Master down has king, living room has pull out sofa. Upstairs one bedroom has king and own bathroom. Other bedroom has 2 doubles or queens (can't remember as I didn't sleep there) and its own bathroom. You could only sleep 10 if there were 2 persons in every bed. We absolutely love these villas!!!


 
So is the upstairs smaller in buildings 41 and 42? Or is it just a different floorplan? And are there still 3 beds upstairs in the older buildings or only 2 beds?

Is there already a thread or floorplan graphic that discusses these differences?


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## DavidnRobin

See footnote on floorplans - I read this as floor plan shown does not necessarily represent all villa plans.

The square foot ages are appromatey the same - as well as general layout for the buildings.

The buildings are different - one set has a movable (sliding-folding) wall between the upstairs bedrooms.

One Bedroom on bottom floor, 2 bedrooms on upper floor.


----------



## ferndale

I believe that all 3bedroom pool villas have one bedroom upstairs with 1 bed, and 1 with 2 beds.  The difference is the permanent wall vs the moveable sliding wall.  Also building 43 and 44 have 2 bathrooms upstairs, and building 41 and 42 have 1 bathroom upstairs.  All 4 buildings have a master downstairs with its own bathroom, and a powder room downstairs with toilet and sink.  All 4 also have a pull out sofa in living room


----------



## SMHarman

*A Major Addition to Virgin Islands Park*

http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/a-major-addition-to-virgin-islands-park/

Virgin Islands National Park – which already encompasses 60 percent of the tiny Caribbean island of St. John — just got a little bigger.

The beach at Maho Bay and its surrounding hillside recently was sold to the National Park Service in a $2.5 million deal, the Trust for Public Land announced. It’s the park’s largest addition since 1956, when the philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller, hoping to preserve the island paradise he fell in love with, donated more than 5,000 acres toward its creation.

“It’s a story of perseverance and a vision,” Brion FitzGerald, the park superintendent, said. “To be able to sit on the beach and look up there and not see a lot of development is what makes it worthy of a national park. It ensures that same view for every generation to come.”

It’s hard to imagine a drive along the island’s North Shore Road, which winds through the parcel, without thinking of its iconic canopy.


----------



## okwiater

SMHarman said:


> Virgin Islands National Park – which already encompasses 60 percent of  the tiny Caribbean island of St. John — just got a little bigger.
> 
> [...]


That is great news!


----------



## olivias dad

Hello, just wondering i've had a tough time using my timeshare at WSJ the week we have because of our kids starting school.  I know I'll get very little for resale, and have had no luck trying to sell.  Does WSJ take back units?


----------



## SMHarman

olivias dad said:


> Hello, just wondering i've had a tough time using my timeshare at WSJ the week we have because of our kids starting school.  I know I'll get very little for resale, and have had no luck trying to sell.  Does WSJ take back units?



Not likely, they are in active sales of new units so don't want more.  There are a number of brokers who deal with the units that have value, otherwise an ad here, redweek and an auction on ebay might move it on.

You can update your profile to include more data about what you own e.g WSH Hillside 2Br EY Platinum+ week which could help others advise.

Are you calling 12 months out to reserve?  Planning ahead is key.


----------



## Crasherino

*Bay Vista Grill Areas*

Can anyone give me an update as to how the Bay Vista grill areas are now?  I believe they were re-done since I saw them last and I'm curious how they stack up with the VG grills.  I know the BV can't compete with the pool deck area, but the grills themselves up on the Hill are quite nice.  Just wondering if they put something commensurate with those grills in the BV area.  

We are looking into a 2 bdrm BV EOY and are getting closer to pulling the trigger.


----------



## DavidnRobin

olivias dad said:


> Hello, just wondering i've had a tough time using my timeshare at WSJ the week we have because of our kids starting school.  I know I'll get very little for resale, and have had no luck trying to sell.  Does WSJ take back units?



Sorry to hear.  I do not think SVO/WSJ-VG will take it back (unless it has value - as in a Plat+ week) - they may allow you to turn it in in order to purchase a VOI that may fit your needs better (a float VOI at WSJ-BV or CV, or even at another SVO resort). Of course that will cost you at least $20K, but they may give you full 'book' value that will help offset cost.

The WSJ-VGV has taken back VOIs that have been delinquent in MFs and then auctioned them off.  That won't get you any money, but will get you out of your obligation for annual MFs.  You could contact Phil or Bob about this.

It would be helpful if you state what type of WSJ-VGV you own - then advice could be more specific to your issue.  Certain WSJ-VGV villas (e.g. Plat+) have far more value than other weeks.


----------



## okwiater

olivias dad said:


> Hello, just wondering i've had a tough time using my timeshare at WSJ the week we have because of our kids starting school. I know I'll get very little for resale, and have had no luck trying to sell. Does WSJ take back units?


Is it part of Hillside or Bay Vista? If Hillside (aka Virgin Grand Villas), keep in mind that the Staroptions values are going up in 2015 -- in many cases, quite significantly, including hurricane season. This makes them much more appealing to use as traders in the SVN, which could either make it more attractive to keep for your own use, or could cause meaningful changes in its value on the resale market (considering that Staroptions transfer on resale).


----------



## olivias dad

It is a hillside studio.  While we love it, we can't commit every year as its the first week of school for our kids.


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## DavidnRobin

olivias dad said:


> It is a hillside studio.  While we love it, we can't commit every year as its the first week of school for our kids.



I assume by this - you own low season (end Aug/early Sept) - if this is the case  a studio has very little (no) value in $ or SOs.  Not sure what you should do - wish I could be more help.  I think that perhaps the best course would exchange it for a CV phase which has more flexibility.  I realize that this will cost more (sucks) - because otherwise you will need to let go (foreclosed) - which will pass costs onto other Owners like me - or use somehow.

This is a good reason not to buy a low season VOI - same MFs with much less resale value. Best...


----------



## letsgomets

Does anyone know if the new CV phase means the elimination of garden view hotel rooms?  We always tack a few extra days after our BV timeshare (because a week in STJ is never enough!) and they booked us into garden view rooms for next December.  I'm wondering if that automatically means I'm going to end up poolside or ocean view or whether there will still be garden view I'm not thinking of.  If the former, I don't know why they wouldn't have fixed the inventory in their system since they price differently.  Thanks.


----------



## shockdoct

With some banked starOptions from a few years ago, we transformed our 1BR Prem at WKV to a 3 BR St John Villa in May (9-16, Friday to Friday).  We are ecstatic about being able to transfer into any unit at WSJ!


Since we own just the 1 BR at WKV, we are lacking any status for room preference, but I was wondering if there is a way to determine what unit we will end up with when we arrive?  

I have made it through about the last 15 pages of this thread and it is quite informative! Thanks to those who shared their experiences.


----------



## bobpark56

*You will like them all*



shockdoct said:


> With some banked starOptions from a few years ago, we transformed our 1BR Prem at WKV to a 3 BR St John Villa in May (9-16, Friday to Friday).  We are ecstatic about being able to transfer into any unit at WSJ!
> 
> 
> Since we own just the 1 BR at WKV, we are lacking any status for room preference, but I was wondering if there is a way to determine what unit we will end up with when we arrive?
> 
> I have made it through about the last 15 pages of this thread and it is quite informative! Thanks to those who shared their experiences.



I think you will be pleased with whichever villa you get. 

The 43xx and 44xx units have the advantage of a hot tub.


----------



## czar

House hunters on HGTV doing episode on StJ right now.


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> House hunters on HGTV doing episode on StJ right now.



StJ has been on HHI more times than any location.
tix bought - car rented
june soon come


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> StJ has been on HHI more times than any location.
> tix bought - car rented
> june soon come



That reminds me.....I need to reserve that rental for May. 

And email Stewart.


----------



## DavidnRobin

As a reminder - make sure that you check your flight reservations often. I found out (luckily) that the first segment of our flight home in June (STT-CLT-SFO) on USAir was changed.  As a consequence. we could no longer connect with the 2nd segment.  I received no notice of this - and USAir would not do anything (rebook on AA for example) except to refund my $, or rebook the 2nd segment for the next day (spend the nite in CLT on my dime) - for more money...

Of course - not happy.  I ended up canceling the flight (get a refund) - and booking on AA to get home (STT-MIA-SFO).  On the positive side I was able to get a Biz/1st class ticket for not that much more (considering bag fees, nite in CLT and extra time to get home).

Amazing that USAir rebooked me on a flight that arrived later in CLT that our plane departed from CLT.

This is not the 1st time our tickets have been changed w/o notice - so remember to check your flights.
USAir stop flying this Friday afternoon flight out of STT.


----------



## ferndale

See you in June again!!  Air booked, car booked, working on scuba!!


----------



## DavidnRobin

Super HD video of StJ
Put in highest HD quality you have

http://youtu.be/ZSNyrBbsQZk


----------



## tomandrobin

shockdoct said:


> With some banked starOptions from a few years ago, we transformed our 1BR Prem at WKV to a 3 BR St John Villa in May (9-16, Friday to Friday).  We are ecstatic about being able to transfer into any unit at WSJ!
> 
> Since we own just the 1 BR at WKV, we are lacking any status for room preference, but I was wondering if there is a way to determine what unit we will end up with when we arrive?



That is a great exchange. We will be at WSJ the same week as you. More then likely, your exchange is for the Bay Vista Section.....But you never know.


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Super HD video of StJ
> Put in highest HD quality you have
> 
> http://youtu.be/ZSNyrBbsQZk



Nice eye candy! 

Booked our car for the week. 

Stu isn't taking excursions at this time, busy with his wedding business. But we have Steve's email from last time we were at WSJ. 

We might book the WSJ excursion to BVI/Soggy Dollar....Snorkel, lunch at Foxy's Taboo and then Soggy Dollar.


----------



## DavidnRobin

There are plenty of captains/boats that can take you on your own tour (within reason) like Stu for about the same $, but w/o hassle of dealing with the bareboat reservation - and boats are moored on StJ.

I sure wish they would do something about the BVI/USVI check-in process - especially as we want to go straight to the areas around Norman Is (and eat lunch at WillieTs. They must lose a lot of tourists' dollars.


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> I sure wish they would do something about the BVI/USVI check-in process - especially as we want to go straight to the areas around Norman Is (and eat lunch at WillieTs. They must lose a lot of tourists' dollars.



Agreed....I hate having to plan on that "extra" stop.....which as never at a convenient point of our trip.


----------



## czar

DavidnRobin said:


> Super HD video of StJ
> Put in highest HD quality you have
> 
> http://youtu.be/ZSNyrBbsQZk



Wow thanks for sharing that. Great thing to watch at end of long day.


----------



## czar

Out of curiosity, and not that I'm complaining, I'm wondering why there's a March due date on my MF for BV?


  Due Date		   03/02/2014

  Prior Balance Due
View Prior Year Balance Detail		  $ 0.00

  Current Year Charges

Maintenance Fee(s)		  $ 2,130.08

Tax - If Applicable		  $ 256.34

Membership Fee - If Applicable


----------



## ajb116

*Hillside Resale Week 1 - One Bedroom*

Saw a great deal on redweek.com for a 1 bedroom hillside villa for week 1 for a little less that $5K. I would love to purchase but being in finance...year end is an impossible time to go! Is there anyway I would be able to purchase this and switch weeks for another platinum timeframe. I could pretty much go any other time in platinum season.

If not...someone else should snatch it up!


----------



## czar

ajb116 said:


> Saw a great deal on redweek.com for a 1 bedroom hillside villa for week 1 for a little less that $5K. I would love to purchase but being in finance...year end is an impossible time to go! Is there anyway I would be able to purchase this and switch weeks for another platinum timeframe. I could pretty much go any other time in platinum season.
> 
> If not...someone else should snatch it up!



Other people may chime in with better opinions, but I'm guessing Week 1 may not be as popular since it's right after the new year?


----------



## ajb116

*Pricing*

Starwood contacted me yesteday to try and get me to buy through them. "Pricing will go up for everything Jan 1st. for hillside and Bay Vista." They were trying to sell me an eoy in gold season for bay vista 2 bed for nearly 22K. NO THANKS!

Thanks to tug I know to buy resale!


----------



## DavidnRobin

ajb116 said:


> Starwood contacted me yesteday to try and get me to buy through them. "Pricing will go up for everything Jan 1st. for hillside and Bay Vista." They were trying to sell me an eoy in gold season for bay vista 2 bed for nearly 22K. NO THANKS!
> 
> Thanks to tug I know to buy resale!



If by 'Pricing' they mean 'StarOptions' are going up in 2015 for VGV and BV - then that is correct. Perhaps the increase in SOs will affect purchase price.  Wait until BV starts hitting the resale market...


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> Out of curiosity, and not that I'm complaining, I'm wondering why there's a March due date on my MF for BV?
> 
> Due Date		   03/02/2014
> Prior Balance Due
> View Prior Year Balance Detail		  $ 0.00
> Current Year Charges
> Maintenance Fee(s)		  $ 2,130.08
> Tax - If Applicable		  $ 256.34
> Membership Fee - If Applicable



Because they were not ready (?) - this happened 1 year for VGV (hopefully the same outcome will not occur - VGV MFs skyrocketed the following years)

You have a tax that is charged separately from the BV MFs? Is this correct and the tax is $256?


----------



## czar

DavidnRobin said:


> Because they were not ready (?) - this happened 1 year for VGV (hopefully the same outcome will not occur - VGV MFs skyrocketed the following years)
> 
> 
> 
> You have a tax that is charged separately from the BV MFs? Is this correct and the tax is $256?




From what I can tell, yes. When we bought I knew the total MF (inclusive of tax) was about $2300 for a 3br, so this makes sense to me.


----------



## DavidnRobin

ajb116 said:


> Saw a great deal on redweek.com for a 1 bedroom hillside villa for week 1 for a little less that $5K. I would love to purchase but being in finance...year end is an impossible time to go! Is there anyway I would be able to purchase this and switch weeks for another platinum timeframe. I could pretty much go any other time in platinum season.
> 
> If not...someone else should snatch it up!



A great deal...? That is relative. A reasonable deal for someone looking for week 1 in a 1Bd (remember the check-in day is fixed - as well as the week).  Do not buy this with the intent of exchanging for another week in the same season.  Buy the week you want to use (incl check-in day).

I am not so sure week 1 isn't a popular week - as it appears most weeks in the Plat+ season are popular.  One upside is that the SOs for this VOI are going up next year (81K to 95.7K SOs) and the Owner may not be aware.  The MFs are still high - but the SO allotment gives some more flexibility. Also, there is more of a rental demand in Plat+ season (snowbirds).  For us - Plat+ season is not desirable - too crowded, and north shore is not as calm.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Time for a bump...
{getting excited for our annual StJ/WSJ visit}

Travelocity YouTube video for (some of) the beaches on StJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA10dsy4mIA


----------



## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> Time for a bump...
> {getting excited for our annual StJ/WSJ visit}
> 
> Travelocity YouTube video for (some of) the beaches on StJ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA10dsy4mIA




Us too!! 

We just got back from a Southern Caribbean cruise and got a little taste of island life. We left San Juan and had stops at Barbados, St Lucia, Antigua, St Martin and St Thomas. They were all different and were special in their own way, but none of them are St John!


----------



## Beaglemom3

There is someone who is trying to give his week 39 away. Details here:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207706

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207705


----------



## sjsharkie

Beaglemom3 said:


> There is someone who is trying to give his week 39 away. Details here:
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207706
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207705



Yes, it is tempting, but that week is going to be a tough sell.  Week 39 is a low season week in a studio -- I think the seller has done everything he can (prepaying mfs and closing) to give it away, but he will have to find a taker who wants to go there every late Sept.

Larger units rent for slightly more than the studio mfs for that particular week -- I think I saw a redweek posting for a 2bd/3bth rental for $2100 for that same week.

-ryan


----------



## tomandrobin

Its a free unit.

If you use it for a few years and give it away, it only will cost you mf of those years.


----------



## Beaglemom3

tomandrobin said:


> Its a free unit.
> 
> If you use it for a few years and give it away, it only will cost you mf of those years.



 Exactly. This could work for someone.


----------



## sjsharkie

Not saying it wouldn't work for anyone.

I'm saying it might be a tough sell since that particular week can likely be rented at or lower than current mfs.  And that person would need to be happy with a week 39 every year.

-ryan


----------



## DavidnRobin

tomandrobin said:


> Its a free unit.
> 
> If you use it for a few years and give it away, it only will cost you mf of those years.



Or - if week 39 and similar weeks work (low season) - you can pretty much rent from an Owner for what the MFs cost. Or use SOs for a SVN exchange. Without the hassle of owning.

I see that Ryan beat me to it... check out RedWeek - there are plenty of weeks for rent below or at the MFs - especially in low season.  There are ~14 studios that are below or at MFs listed on RW.  Heck, there is an studio (April 2014) for $1000/week.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ-VGV B41-B42 Vote for Permanent Wall*

See thread re: VGV vote for putting in a solid wall for B41-B42.
{in case you missed it}

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207632

I would hope that all WSJ Owners that read this forum make sure your HOA has your current info.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Update on CV Phase*

Thread for prices of CV phase (Mar'14)

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1602714#post1602714


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ-VGV HOA Update, March 2014 (Part 1)*

March 2014

Dear Fellow Virgin Grand Villas Owner:

This is our report on the 2014 Annual Meeting of Owners, and the March 2014 Meeting of the Board of Directors, in which we participated as your owner-elected directors. Both meetings were held at the resort, albeit in the usual windowless conference room.

Energy costs

The top issue for discussion was energy costs. When we wrote to you in November, the utility company that supplies electricity to the Virgin Islands was charging users 48 cents per kilowatt-hour, about four times as much as many people pay on the mainland. By March, the cost had risen to 51 cents per kilowatt hour. Increases have averaged 11% a year in recent years. Electricity is a major component of our budget (and our maintenance fees) over which we have little control – except that we remind all owners to turn off the air conditioning and lights when you leave your villas, and please ask your guests and those to whom you rent to do the same.

Clearly, we have to be able to generate more of our own electricity. As you know, we now have solar energy panels on the roofs of buildings 41, 42, 43 and 44, but they generate only a small fraction of the energy that we need. Starwood is planning to put many more cells at various places on the hotel side of the resort, including the roofs of many of the buildings there, and invited us to participate in the project. No decisions were made at the March meeting, but the Board will probably decide to put solar cells on the roofs of the hillside buildings. In that event, there will be no acquisition or installation cost to us; an outside vendor will supply the equipment, and in return, we will agree to buy electricity from that vendor for about 34 cents per kilowatt-hour, a price that will be guaranteed for at least twenty years (with a 2.5% annual increase). However, the hillside roof panels, like those on buildings 41 through 44, will not generate very much electricity supplying only a small portion of Virgin Grand's electrical needs.

The vendor also proposed to install a field array of solar cells on the ground in front of buildings 31 and 32. This field array would have generated quite a lot of power, but prior to the meeting we asked the vendor to lay out some panels of cells in that area so we could see what they would look like. We determined that they were too unsightly and would spoil the view from those buildings, and we will not support that installation. We understand that the Starwood-appointed members of the Board agree with us.

So we have turned to examining an alternative solution to fulfilling our energy needs, which we have mentioned in past communications to you: generating our electricity with two 200 Kilowatt micro-turbines powered by liquid propane. This cogeneration system, which would be located either at the back of the "boneyard" behind building 44 or on the hotel side of the property, would (together with the existing and proposed roof-mounted solar panels) generate all of the energy that we anticipate needing. The cost to us would depend on the price of liquid propane, but at current prices it would be about 33 cents per kilowatt hour (plus two cents per kilowatt-hour for a long-term maintenance contract). It is unlikely that future increases in the price of liquid propane will be greater than the rate at which the price of electricity has been rising. The company that sells this equipment assures us the system is quiet (that is, not audible at night from the nearest residential building) and odor-free.

In pursuing the cogeneration alternative, we would have to make a one-time purchase of the micro-turbine equipment, but the saving in energy cost is so significant that the increase in maintenance fees to recoup the cost of the equipment would be entirely offset, even in the first year, so there would be no maintenance fee increase attributable to the purchase. Furthermore, the cost would be completely recouped over seven years, and for at least the thirteen years after that (the expected life of the equipment is 20 years), the equipment would generate our electricity and we would pay only for the propane that we use. After seven years, we estimate that we could save an average of at least $50 per average unit week in maintenance fees, compared to the current cost of electricity.

Starwood has installed a similar, though not identical, system at The Westin Princeville Resort in Princeville, Hawaii, and it is about to become operational. We deferred any decision about proceeding with the cogeneration alternative until the Princeville unit is functioning and has been demonstrated to be quiet and odor-free. In addition, we asked several questions about safety (such as whether sensors could be installed to alert personnel immediately if there were any propane leak) and we are awaiting answers to those questions. If everything is satisfactory, the Board could decide to purchase the equipment next year.

The vote on buildings 41 and 42

Owners in buildings 41 and 42 received a ballot this year on which they could indicate whether they opposed or did not oppose the construction of a permanent wall to separate the single large upstairs bedroom in their units into two separate bedrooms, at no cost to them. Under the bylaws, such a wall could be constructed in a unit only if all owners of that particular unit affirmatively agreed to such construction.

Owners of 466 unit weeks voted "yes," and only five voted "no." Unfortunately, those five were from owners of five separate units, so no wall can be constructed in units 4111, 4112, 4113, 4114 and 4214. In the other seven units in those two buildings, there were no negative votes, but in each of those units, not all owners voted. Because construction requires the affirmative approval of all owners, no wall can be constructed in the other units either, but the management company has undertaken to contact the 162 non-voting owners by email to find out whether they oppose construction or just didn't bother to vote on the issue. If you are such an owner, please respond to management's inquiry, and please do not oppose construction lightly, because, as you can see, owners of these units overwhelmingly support the building of a wall. (If you are one of the five owners who voted "no" and you change your mind in view of this report, please send one of us an email to that effect).

Villa exchange posting website

As you know from our previous reports, at our suggestion the Board appropriated funds to hire an outside contractor to create a password-protected website through which VGV owners could exchange unit weeks with each other, as well as offer weeks to rent or purchase, or seek units to rent or purchase. The contractor has been exceedingly slow to fulfill the contract, but the website is close to the launch point. At the annual meeting, Board Chair Teri Castleberry showed screen shots of the various pages.

Recently, a technical glitch was discovered (having to do with the email address to which responses to owner "ads" are sent). We have been advised that this will be resolved very soon by changing the listing form that the owner completes for the ad. After this change is made, there could be up to two months or so during which Starwood integrates our website into mystarcentral.com, which will be the point of access; this is necessary for security and privacy. 

Many owners who were present at the annual meeting expressed strong interest in making this launch a priority, and a Starwood representative who was present at the meeting offered to expedite the integration with mystarcentral once the glitch is resolved.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ-VGV HOA Update, March 2014 (Part 2)*

Construction at the resort

Refurbishment of the resort (and the conversion of some hotel units into the new Coral Vista timeshare development) is proceeding rapidly. The poolside buildings already look much better. The main pool deck has been expanded by 4,000 square feet, and there are 75 additional chaises. Within the next year, the dock area will be improved, the beach café will be reconstructed, the fitness center will be refurbished, the lobby will be spruced up, and the gatehouse will be moved from the Virgin Grand side of the road to the hotel side, with an electronic gate for automobile access to the Virgin Grand side. In addition, a footpath will be built adjacent to the most heavily trafficked part of the access road between the main road and the lobby. A lock has been installed on the freecycle shed, which you can open with your room key – only Virgin Grand occupants will be able to access the shed. Even with all the construction going on, the resort has regained its four-star rating on TripAdvisor. 

At present, no footpath is contemplated between Virgin Grand and the St. John Market on the main road. However, if you believe that a footpath should be created as a safety measure, because at present owners must walk (and even wheel carriages and strollers) in the road, please send an email to General Manager Mike Ryan at mike.ryan@westin.com He has offered to raise this issue with the Virgin Island authorities if there is sufficient interest.

More StarOptions and Starpoints

The resort has become such a desirable destination that Starwood has increased, effective 2015, the number of StarOptions and Starpoints associated with our units. This will make it harder to trade into Virgin Grand and Bay Vista, and easier for St. John owners to exchange to other SVO resorts or to convert for hotel points. Here is the new allocation.
{SO Chart did not copy}

Short-term investment of maintenance fees

The management company receives the great majority of maintenance fees on time (by Jan. 17 this year), but it spends the money throughout the year. We noticed in the management company's report to the Board that the maintenance funds were earning only .01 percent interest in a money market account. Meanwhile, short-term (e.g., 6-month) CDs were paying up to .5 percent interest. In response to our inquiry, we were told that the funds would be invested in short-term CDs very soon. We asked that in future years, the funds be invested in secure short-term investment products more promptly, and management agreed that this should be done.

Sale of foreclosed units

We have continued to foreclose on unit weeks whose owners were not paying their maintenance fees. The association currently owns 66 unit weeks, with more coming through the pipeline during the coming months. We are going to hold another bargain-basement sale in April, with prices as low as $500 to buy a unit week in a studio in the off-season. Watch your email later this spring if you are interested in buying one or more additional unit weeks at very deeply discounted prices.

Smoking

At present, all of Virgin Grand is a no-smoking zone. Some owners and guests are smokers, and a few have been smoking on balconies and the pool areas to the disturbance of others. General Manager Ryan is going to create a small number of smoking areas at locations that will not intrude on non-smokers. If you are a smoker, please smoke only in those designated areas (and do not smoke on the property at all until those areas are established). There are already some designated smoking areas on the hotel side of the road. ("No smoking" signs will also be posted at the hillside pools).

Check-outs

In our last report, we advised owners that although check-out time from the villas is 10 am, some owners and renters were not leaving their villas at that time, delaying check-ins and requiring us to pay more for cleaning staff on turnover days (which is then reflected in our maintenance fees). It appears that owners have paid attention to this advice, because the percentage of people checking out on time has increased. However, management is continuing to monitor the situation, and if the late check-out problem recurs, management will have to consider imposing a penalty fee for late check-outs (as is done on the hotel side).

Minor matters

Several owners have noticed that because it is necessary to use two different remote controls (TV and Bose) in a specific order to play a DVD, it is often necessary to call Service Express or to rent a ten-year old in order to synchronize the devices. Mr. Ryan will have a card printed, for each villa, with step-by-step instructions on how to play a DVD.

When the hillside villas are fully occupied, it is sometimes difficult to park on the hillside because the cars are parked inefficiently, with half a car-length between them. Mr. Ryan is going to remedy the situation by painting parking space lines on the driveways.

Management is looking into trimming the trees to improve views of the bay from the hillside villas, without removing too much landscaping.

Management has installed 23 mosquito traps in inconspicuous locations around the property. While owners might have trouble locating these traps, the mosquitoes don't seem to be having a similar difficulty.

We sometimes receive questions from new owners regarding issues that were fully addressed in our prior reports or in prior reports from SVO. Starwood will attempt to archive all of the prior reports on the section of mystarcentral.com that is dedicated to Virgin Grand owners.

In June of this year, the chaises at the hillside villa pools will be replaced by cushioned chaises like those at the main hotel pool.

The hillside pools have been re-decked with tiles that don't heat up in the sunshine and both pools have been equipped with motorized chairlifts for users with less mobility. As we requested, shade sails have been installed, providing much more shade at the pools. And the poolside grills are now much improved.

There had been a problem with the bottom bed sheets in many units: they did not fit under the very thick mattresses. We understand that all of those sheets have been replaced with sheets that will tuck under the mattresses.

Finally, we want to express our appreciation to the resort's management and staff, and to SVO's management and staff, who have worked very hard over the past few years to make our resort an outstanding property. And we'd like to end this report with a particular shout-out to Mark Dunham, Starwood Vacation Ownership's Vice President of Facilities Management, who has done a superb job of investigating the options for reducing our energy costs, presenting them to the Board of Directors in a clear way, and responding to all the questions with which we pepper him.

Your elected directors,

Philip G. Schrag
phil.schrag@gmail.com

Robert Werbel
robert.werbel@yahoo.com


----------



## Crasherino

ajb116 said:


> Starwood contacted me yesteday to try and get me to buy through them. "Pricing will go up for everything Jan 1st. for hillside and Bay Vista." They were trying to sell me an* eoy in gold season for bay vista 2 bed for nearly 22K*. NO THANKS!
> 
> Thanks to tug I know to buy resale!



Interesting.  We just bought an EOY 2bdrm Bay Vista in Platinum Plus season for $12.5k on the secondary market.  

Big thanks to everyone on this site for guiding us in this process.  This thread is gold (or platinum).


----------



## tomandrobin

Crasherino said:


> Interesting.  We just bought an EOY 2bdrm Bay Vista in Platinum Plus season for $12.5k on the secondary market.
> 
> Big thanks to everyone on this site for guiding us in this process.  This thread is gold (or platinum).



Very nice! 

Hope you enjoy WSJ and all of VI like we do.


----------



## Henry M.

For anyone interested, I got a notice of a listing for a 1BR unit at VG, Unit 3327, Week 21, Sat. to Sat. for $500. This is by far the lowest price I've seen for any WSJ unit. 

If you're interested you can contact Lynn Giovanna, with Island Real Estate, at lynngiovanna@gmail.com. 

Henry


----------



## Crasherino

tomandrobin said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Hope you enjoy WSJ and all of VI like we do.



Thanks!  We love the WSJ and STJ in general.  This is our first foray into the Timeshare world though.  We've been casually looking for a while and this one seemed to jump out as a good deal and the EOY is a good way to stick our toe in the water.  

I find myself continually looking for other weeks that become available so I'm guessing this won't be our last purchase.


----------



## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> For anyone interested, I got a notice of a listing for a 1BR unit at VG, Unit 3327, Week 21, Sat. to Sat. for $500. This is by far the lowest price I've seen for any WSJ unit.
> 
> If you're interested you can contact Lynn Giovanna, with Island Real Estate, at lynngiovanna@gmail.com.
> 
> Henry



A 1-Bd Plat+ Week 16 WSJ-VGV had a winning auction price of $5 on eBay - this will be worth 81K SOs in 2015.  The lowest price for a 1Bd Gold+ WSJ-VGV (like week 21) has been free on the TUG Bargain Deals (actually think 2 weeks were given away). Amazing...

Plat season villas (VGV and BV) will have a 50% jump in 2015.


----------



## DavidnRobin

Crasherino said:


> Interesting.  We just bought an EOY 2bdrm Bay Vista in Platinum Plus season for $12.5k on the secondary market.
> 
> Big thanks to everyone on this site for guiding us in this process.  This thread is gold (or platinum).



Congrats - glad you are happy with it.
Enjoy StJ.


----------



## czar

DavidnRobin said:


> At present, no footpath is contemplated between Virgin Grand and the St. John Market on the main road. However, if you believe that a footpath should be created as a safety measure, because at present owners must walk (and even wheel carriages and strollers) in the road, please send an email to General Manager Mike Ryan at mike.ryan@westin.com He has offered to raise this issue with the Virgin Island authorities if there is sufficient interest.



Thanks for sharing all that info, and especially above. I'll definitely email regarding this. 

All of the things that are going on in VG wil have such a positive impact on those units and the entire resort, so it's great reading.


----------



## finztotheleft

*Bay Vista Questions*

Hello,

I own in BV and find the HOA and the ever truthful sales office enjoy the game of finger pointing in their efforts to avoid answering questions.  I am hoping this user thread might have some insight to share.

I am curious if anyone knows how much of BV has been sold?  I understand once a certain threshold is surpassed the SVO Board of Directors can be taken over by...ummmm....actual owners with vested interest.  

I am also interested in knowing if anyone remembers the option of the "ultra" ownership when you originally purchased- prior to 2011????  My sense is they introduced this option after the fact(~2011) as a means to increase sales as they were incredibly slow.  The 'Ultra' is essentially a locked week/unit without calling it locked.  Like everything out of that sales office it is a scam and has resulted in those with float weeks having a harder time getting their requests.

Thanks for any help you can give!

Kathy


----------



## DavidnRobin

finztotheleft said:


> Hello,
> 
> I own in BV and find the HOA and the ever truthful sales office enjoy the game of finger pointing in their efforts to avoid answering questions.  I am hoping this user thread might have some insight to share.
> 
> I am curious if anyone knows how much of BV has been sold?  I understand once a certain threshold is surpassed the SVO Board of Directors can be taken over by...ummmm....actual owners with vested interest.
> 
> I am also interested in knowing if anyone remembers the option of the "ultra" ownership when you originally purchased- prior to 2011????  My sense is they introduced this option after the fact(~2011) as a means to increase sales as they were incredibly slow.  The 'Ultra' is essentially a locked week/unit without calling it locked.  Like everything out of that sales office it is a scam and has resulted in those with float weeks having a harder time getting their requests.
> 
> Thanks for any help you can give!
> 
> Kathy



Hi Kathy - welcome to SVO TUG - it is good to have more BV owners on this thread that tends to be VGV-centric.

Sales is full of questionable information and tactics. This unfortunately is status quo in the TS world.  I would argue that SVO and the other big ones are probably the most ethical (as bizarre as that is) - as they do have a good product, but are never going to disclose flaws.

Re: BV HOA - a few thoughts. No way they are ever going to give up control of the HOA (and as often argued here - be careful what you wish for...).  This thread started over maintenance issues at VGV, then morphed into getting some real owners on the HOA BOD (even to the dismay of some... not me) which we accomplished - and sadly lost a few friends over and fortunately made some - as the issues had become divisive.  However, this still only represent 2 of 5 BOD positions, but at least we have better transparency {see email to VGV Owners above}.  SVO BOD always have control os the board even with 'owners' on board - usually SVO picks who they want on board.  We had a Tugger try and get onto the WKORV BOD and got denied.  They control the voting.

Not sure how much of BV is sold - I would imagine at this point probably in the range of 75-80% (guessimate) based on how long BV sales has gone on, and that they are now building the CV phase.  However, remember that they will always control some percentage of the villas as they rent them out for profit that does not go back to the HOA (not saying it should...) - these numbers are generally around 10%.

This thread may actually contain info on the 'ultra' ownership at BV.  Weird... I just threw away all my info packets on WSJ BV and WKORVN during a Spring Clean-up at home (Robin has too much time on her hands... ).  I do recall something about an Ultra Ownership and this is not uncommon for the high-end SVO resorts.  WKORV, WKORVN, and WPORV have some form of this ownership (of course comes with a premium).  Maybe a BV owner can chime in - but not sure how many read this thread. I keep it up just to piss-off an ex-Tugger {sarcasm - inside joke} - seriously, because I have a vested interest in WSJ and love StJ (and wish I could live there 4-6 months a year).  Also, this thread was started to help create transparency at VGV (somewhat successful) in order to improve ownership because there is power in numbers (very important in the SVO world).

Hope this helps...


----------



## DavidnRobin

czar said:


> Thanks for sharing all that info, and especially above. I'll definitely email regarding this.
> 
> All of the things that are going on in VG wil have such a positive impact on those units and the entire resort, so it's great reading.



I think I will email as well even though I do not walk to the StJ Market.  However, knowing StJ this will be a difficult proposal (heck, they haven't even completed Centerline Road repairs).  That low section (Guinea Gut?) is a flood zone, and they just spent Fed highway dollars to repair the bridge (and water flow-through) after the last flood.

Of course, maybe Mike Ryan knows whose palm to grease in the USVI/StJ government... (that would start with Mr Smalls - as close to a criminal you can get - which appears to be the norm in USVI. Yet, the Chamber of Commerce is giving Mr Smalls an award - too funny...)


----------



## czar

Did two WSJ related things yesterday - paid our 2014 BV MF ($2400 for 3br, and for some reason was due in March) and contacted Mike about the walkway. 

August can't get hear soon enough!


----------



## tomandrobin

finztotheleft said:


> I am also interested in knowing if anyone remembers the option of the "ultra" ownership when you originally purchased- prior to 2011????



If by "Ultra" you mean a fixed week in Bay Vista section, then I own one of them to go with my two float weeks.


----------



## ferndale

*2nd week of june!*

Starting to plan for our fabulous week in St. John!!  Hoping for an evening with David and Robin?  We have a fun crew coming this year!!


----------



## czar

finztotheleft said:


> Hello,
> 
> I own in BV and find the HOA and the ever truthful sales office enjoy the game of finger pointing in their efforts to avoid answering questions.  I am hoping this user thread might have some insight to share.
> 
> I am curious if anyone knows how much of BV has been sold?  I understand once a certain threshold is surpassed the SVO Board of Directors can be taken over by...ummmm....actual owners with vested interest.
> 
> I am also interested in knowing if anyone remembers the option of the "ultra" ownership when you originally purchased- prior to 2011????  My sense is they introduced this option after the fact(~2011) as a means to increase sales as they were incredibly slow.  The 'Ultra' is essentially a locked week/unit without calling it locked.  Like everything out of that sales office it is a scam and has resulted in those with float weeks having a harder time getting their requests.
> 
> Thanks for any help you can give!
> 
> Kathy



Kathy,

When I bought a week this summer, I recall the option to fix an "Ultra" week.  Doesn't help answer the question about whether that was pre- or post-2011, but there were a few specfic weeks you could do this with (I tried searching for a copy on my laptop, but I'll check my desk at work on Monday). There was a fairly significant price increase to take advantage of that option.

It's great to see all that the Board is doing in VG - I'm hopeful that BV can leverage some of those same strategies as I worry about the MF spiraling out of control.  I own a 3br and seeing the MF at $2400 is high enough already!  Certainly seems like the energy costs play a large part, and it sounds like VG is investigating some options that BV might be able to use, too.

Anyway, my assumption from seeing the Ultra weeks avaiable is that it should be an issie only for a few of the weeks in a year.  Of course, if that wasnt an option when you originally bought, that doesn't make things better, but if you were sold a week with a window of specfic time, I cant see how they could take any of that window away from you.

FWIW, I booked our first use for this summer, but since our contract closed after the 12-month mark, we could not get the week we wanted in August (and this was BEFORE the timeframe when people could trade-in with SO).  I was really suprised.


----------



## DavidnRobin

ferndale said:


> Starting to plan for our fabulous week in St. John!!  Hoping for an evening with David and Robin?  We have a fun crew coming this year!!



Excellent - we will be there.  We still remember that excellent coffee (thanks again). We have gotten to know our neighbors in the villa that mirrors ours - and they own the same weeks.  I think they dive as well, or at least one of them. You should meet them - nice folks - from AZ.


----------



## azsunluvr

*3bedroom score*

Haven't been on TUG for a long while, but wanted to see what everyone's currently saying about WSJ. We lucked into a 3 bedroom Memorial Day weekend for 3 nights. Can't wait! 

We will be a large group ... 7 adults and 4 kids. What's the best way to get around? Was hoping not to deal with rental cars. Any suggestions for a boat outing for a group this size? Any tips to share?


----------



## DavidnRobin

*No surprise here... new gas station by WSJ*

I plan to boycott this dangerous eyesore - I recommend others do as well.

_St. John emergency officials expressed concern after they responded twice to incidents involving a fuel truck trying to make the first delivery to the new gas station on South Shore Road on Wednesday, March 26. After the truck blocked traffic for more than hour when it couldn’t climb Jacob’s Ladder — and was escorted back to Cruz Bay. The driver made a second attempt to make the delivery by trying to go through Contant to the top of the hill, where it became stuck again, and St. John Rescue responded once again as a backhoe was brought in to turn the truck around._

http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...82-fuel-truck-stops-traffic-on-jacob-s-ladder


----------



## DavidnRobin

azsunluvr said:


> Haven't been on TUG for a long while, but wanted to see what everyone's currently saying about WSJ. We lucked into a 3 bedroom Memorial Day weekend for 3 nights. Can't wait!
> 
> We will be a large group ... 7 adults and 4 kids. What's the best way to get around? Was hoping not to deal with rental cars. Any suggestions for a boat outing for a group this size? Any tips to share?



For 3 nights and a large group - I would use a taxi-bus (and try and negotiate with the Driver to reduce the fare as they charge by the passenger). Note: all taxis on StJ are buses.

If you want to go to The Baths in Virgin Gorda (BVI - bring passports) - I would go with Bad Kitty for a day charter.


----------



## ferndale

DavidnRobin said:


> Excellent - we will be there.  We still remember that excellent coffee (thanks again). We have gotten to know our neighbors in the villa that mirrors ours - and they own the same weeks.  I think they dive as well, or at least one of them. You should meet them - nice folks - from AZ.




Would love to meet them!  We are bringing my sister and some friends this time.  
Spent last week in Maui enjoying the whales, and the bottom of the ocean!!!


----------



## Westin5Star

DavidnRobin said:


> I plan to boycott this dangerous eyesore - I recommend others do as well.
> 
> _St. John emergency officials expressed concern after they responded twice to incidents involving a fuel truck trying to make the first delivery to the new gas station on South Shore Road on Wednesday, March 26. After the truck blocked traffic for more than hour when it couldn’t climb Jacob’s Ladder — and was escorted back to Cruz Bay. The driver made a second attempt to make the delivery by trying to go through Contant to the top of the hill, where it became stuck again, and St. John Rescue responded once again as a backhoe was brought in to turn the truck around._
> 
> http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...82-fuel-truck-stops-traffic-on-jacob-s-ladder



As long as they don't block the swim up bar...

But seriously, I agree to use Bad Kitty if you really want to go to Virgin Gorda; Charters just take to much time and fuel.  Might I recommend a send day with a charter to Jost, Willy Ts, and the Indians; better yet just spend a few days island hoping in the BVIs.


----------



## EricAndCarol

DavidnRobin said:


> Excellent - we will be there.  We still remember that excellent coffee (thanks again). We have gotten to know our neighbors in the villa that mirrors ours - and they own the same weeks.  I think they dive as well, or at least one of them. You should meet them - nice folks - from AZ.



We are looking forward to our visit this year.  You are right David, only one of us dives.  I would love to meet some other divers that stay during weeks 23 & 24.  While I always enjoy going out with the local operators, it would be a lot of fun to just rent a couple tanks and do some shore diving from some of the great beaches.

Just two more months!


----------



## DavidnRobin

EricAndCarol said:


> We are looking forward to our visit this year.  You are right David, only one of us dives.  I would love to meet some other divers that stay during weeks 23 & 24.  While I always enjoy going out with the local operators, it would be a lot of fun to just rent a couple tanks and do some shore diving from some of the great beaches.
> 
> Just two more months!



Hey EricAndCarol (Eric?) -
We are looking forward to it as well.  I do not know if there is much shore diving off of StJ (never see it done - or heard about it) - perhaps because it is generally shallow for a while from the beaches.  Most of the great dive spots are off shore.  

ferndale's family all dive, but they take the local dive boats - perhaps if you meet them in time you can join them.  They are there during week 23 Sun-Sun (iirc).  Last year they went out with a famous StJ Photographer (Steve Simonsen) who was just starting to do underwater photography and video, and Steve got some great video of them all diving.  I posted a link of the video last year.

Here it is...
http://vimeo.com/68450730


----------



## doubleos

I may be the first/only to complain about the new increase in staroptions, but perhaps I am the first victim.  I wanted to bank one of my weeks, a studio week and using the staroptions for a studio week next year.  I was told on the phone last week from owner services that they would take care of the descrepency between points (37,000 this year for the studio, 44,000 next year).  I call today to bank my week and I am told this is not the case at all.  In fact, if they get a transcript of my call from last week and I was told incorrectly, the person will be reprimanded.  I don't think this is a fair resolution.  If Starwood wants to only give me 37,000 Staroptions to use at another property, fine.  But I should be able to use it for an equivalent unit at St. John if it is available.  Certainly, after I have been given that information.


----------



## DavidnRobin

doubleos said:


> I may be the first/only to complain about the new increase in staroptions, but perhaps I am the first victim.  I wanted to bank one of my weeks, a studio week and using the staroptions for a studio week next year.  I was told on the phone last week from owner services that they would take care of the descrepency between points (37,000 this year for the studio, 44,000 next year).  I call today to bank my week and I am told this is not the case at all.  In fact, if they get a transcript of my call from last week and I was told incorrectly, the person will be reprimanded.  I don't think this is a fair resolution.  If Starwood wants to only give me 37,000 Staroptions to use at another property, fine.  But I should be able to use it for an equivalent unit at St. John if it is available.  Certainly, after I have been given that information.



Interesting... probably good that you rechecked before you banked.  If you were to ask here on TUG - you probably would have gotten a correct answer (can't be done).  It certainly is a downside to the SO increase when it comes to banking 2014 SOs from WSJ for use in 2015 at WSJ

I can imagine that you may the first that has gotten caught up in this conundrum since banked SOs can only be used for SVN exchanges and are not eligible for Home Resort reservations. It is probably not a common request for WSJ as banked SOs may not get a SVN reservation at WSJ at the 8-month point (depending of course on demand that will likely increase since more Owners use banked SOs).

That was of course bad info by the Owner Services associate (not uncommon).  Not to defend them but I can understand the OS associates' misinformation since this involves 2 relatively new concepts that is unique to WSJ (SO banking combined with a SO increase), and perhaps they hadn't come across this situation yet - or more likely hadn't thought it through.


----------



## DavidnRobin

*WSJ Resort Construction Update*

WSJ Resort Construction Update
http://newsofstjohn.com/2014/04/04/westin-construction-update-april-2014/
{for text and photos}

Text from article below...
As you know, the Westin is in the midst of a pretty major renovation. It’s been a few months since our last construction update, so we thought it’d be helpful to provide some new information on where the Westin is with the project.

As we mentioned back in December, renovations to the pool, the poolside rooms and the beachfront rooms have all been completed. The pool area now has additional seating and just looks great. 

The lower hillside rooms (buildings 21, 22, and 23) are currently being converted into what will become Coral Vista Villas – luxury vacation ownership units. Those renovations are expected to be completed in Spring 2015.

The Beachside Cafe is also undergoing renovations and is expected to reopen in mid to late June. In the meantime, breakfast and dinner is being served in the restaurant above the lobby (formerly Cruz Bay Prime). We hear that the new and improved beach cafe will have a new name when it reopens, but nothing is official on that front as of yet.

Lastly, there is some work going on over at the shops which are located near the entrance of the resort.

So what’s next on the Westin’s list in terms of construction? Renovations will begin in the lobby area in mid to late June. At that time, the restaurant will close down as well. That project is expected to be completed by December of this year. The workout center and spa is also slated to get a facelift.  Those facilities will be affected from July through October.

We mentioned this in a previous construction update, but it’s worth repeating. Yes, there will be some inconveniences for tourists, as well as noise associated with construction, but in my opinion, it’s not that bad. And we have to give the Westin credit –  its staff does an outstanding job in accommodating all guests, so kudos to you Westin.


----------



## ferndale

EricAndCarol said:


> We are looking forward to our visit this year.  You are right David, only one of us dives.  I would love to meet some other divers that stay during weeks 23 & 24.  While I always enjoy going out with the local operators, it would be a lot of fun to just rent a couple tanks and do some shore diving from some of the great beaches.
> 
> Just two more months!



Hi Eric and Carol!!
nice to meet you.  Perhaps you can join David and Robin (and guests) whatever night they come over for some food and libations by our pool.  We plan to dive probably tues, wed, thurs with Cruz bay.  Probably morning dives, and maybe whatever day they do their night dive.  We will have a group of 8 very fun people!! We have never tried to rent tanks and shore dive in St. John, but I can do some investigating on that.  At least 4 of us are experienced enough for that to be fun if there is anything to see close to shore.  

David,
    We enjoyed Steve Simonsen so much last year that I have contacted him about diving with us, and doing an underwater photo session!!  how fun.  He is a fabulous photographer  
June can't come soon enough!!!


----------



## azsunluvr

DavidnRobin said:


> For 3 nights and a large group - I would use a taxi-bus (and try and negotiate with the Driver to reduce the fare as they charge by the passenger). Note: all taxis on StJ are buses.
> 
> If you want to go to The Baths in Virgin Gorda (BVI - bring passports) - I would go with Bad Kitty for a day charter.



Thank you for the insight! We will definitely check out Bad Kitty!


----------



## tomandrobin

azsunluvr said:


> Thank you for the insight! We will definitely check out Bad Kitty!



Another vote for Bad Kitty for excursions to The Baths.


----------



## DavidnRobin

For the Baths - the Bad Kitty is on balance one of the best choices because of the distance and smoothness of the ride (relatively).  IMO

However, it is a rushed trip and they cover a lot of territory - plus they can carry up to 30 passengers and the crew needs to deal with all of them.
I read that they now wait to start serving rum punch... 

So - as with everything in the USVI/BVI - set your expectations on slow and mellow, and remember the one word that wraps up the VI vacation experience 'Adapt'


----------



## DavidnRobin

*Safari (Open) Taxis on StJ at risk of going away.*

A political issue that I can get behind and impacts StJ/WSJ visitors. While I do not often use the Safari Taxis (open) on StJ - I could not imagine being stuck in an enclosed van/bus.  
Safari Taxis are at risk of going away on StJ.
http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...i-drivers-action-on-rules-threatening-safaris


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## DavidnRobin

For those StJ lovers on FaceBook - consider following Active St John VI

Excellent info on all sorts of things - they pull from multiple sources


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## DavidnRobin

*Sign the Petition to Save the StJ Safari Taxis*



DavidnRobin said:


> A political issue that I can get behind and impacts StJ/WSJ visitors. While I do not often use the Safari Taxis (open) on StJ - I could not imagine being stuck in an enclosed van/bus.
> Safari Taxis are at risk of going away on StJ.
> http://www.stjohntradewindsnews.com...i-drivers-action-on-rules-threatening-safaris



If you like the open Safari taxis on StJ - sign the petition...

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save-our-safari-taxis.html


----------



## LisaH

DavidnRobin said:


> If you like the open Safari taxis on StJ - sign the petition...
> 
> http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save-our-safari-taxis.html



Done!
Regarding the boat ride, we took the Horizon II TWICE. First time was really good. Second time was just OK. Would love to check out Bad Kitty next time. Have to be next year though as a TUGGER family will use my week this year. 
Speaking of which, I am considering to try the week in mid to late June next year. What should I do? Reserve my own week in Aug this year, then try to see if a June week becomes available later? When does the reservation open to owners of different weeks at WSJ?


----------



## Henry M.

*Amalie Car Rental*

When you rent from Amalie Car Rental, do you have to pay extra for their rental insurance, or can you use your own personal car insurance, like you can with Connor, on St. John?

Are the lines for the car ferries long? In particular, coming back from St. John on a Sunday (May 25, Memorial Day weekend) for a 1:50 PM flight, how early do you have to be at the dock to be sure you can get on the 10:30 am ferry? I have no idea if you need to be there an hour before ferry departure, or if 10 minutes ahead is enough ...


----------



## hefleycatz

I don't think there is an extra charge for insurance.  We are using them too and the quote they sent was the total cost.  We get in on the 24th, so I don't know about the ferry, but will be looking for someone to answer as I will need this info also.  

Lee

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## Henry M.

Just entered a reservation at the Amalie Car web site. Hopefully they'll have the 4-door Jeep that I want. 

Maybe we'll see you the afternoon of the 24th!

Starting to research options to go to the Baths in Virgin Gorda and maybe some out of the way snorkeling. Bad Kitty sounds nice, but very hectic. I'd like to find something that goes to the Baths and maybe the Indians, with the rest of the time in the waters near St. John. Not interested in Cooper's Island or the beach/bar scene in Jost Van Dyke.

Also, I just reserved the Reef Hike from the National Park Service. At $30/person, it is one of the least expensive activities and sounds like a lot of fun. You hike downhill from the park visitor center, spend a little time snorkeling, and take a 45 minute boat ride back to Cruz Bay. You're out from 9:15 AM to 3:30 PM or so. They go Mondays and Thursdays, and the hikes do sell out, since they have pretty limited space. We couldn't find room the last time we were there.


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## LisaRex

emuyshondt said:


> Starting to research options to go to the Baths in Virgin Gorda and maybe some out of the way snorkeling. Bad Kitty sounds nice, but very hectic. I'd like to find something that goes to the Baths and maybe the Indians, with the rest of the time in the waters near St. John. Not interested in Cooper's Island or the beach/bar scene in Jost Van Dyke.



If money isn't an object, you might want to charter a trip.  There are some really good reviews for a few captains.  It's something I've always wanted to do, but when you only travel with one other couple, it's a bit cost prohibitive.


----------



## Westin5Star

LisaRex said:


> If money isn't an object, you might want to charter a trip.  There are some really good reviews for a few captains.  It's something I've always wanted to do, but when you only travel with one other couple, it's a bit cost prohibitive.



We have been to Virgin Gorda a few times.  We have also chartered 6-7 times to go to the other BVIs.  My experience is that the trip to Virgin Gorda is better using a boat like Bad Kitty and then chartering a boat (most of them are pretty slow) to stay closer (Tortola, Willy Ts, Indians, Jost, Sandy Spit, Scrubb, etc.) on a separate day.  The time and cost of fuel using the charter to go to Virgin Gorda just doesn't seem best to us.  

Of course if you charter a really fast boat (and like you say money isn't an object) then I agree it would be great to charter a power speed boat to get to Virgin Gorda in 25 minutes and enjoy it.


----------



## Henry M.

Do you have a favorite for the local charters?


----------



## LisaRex

emuyshondt said:


> Do you have a favorite for the local charters?



I'm afraid I don't.  The last trip I was talking with one captain (Lion in Da Sun, I believe), but the only day he still had available, we were already booked on another excursion.  So I've left it for our next trip. 

If you check out the reviews on TripAdvisor, I'd pick any of the top rated captains with a lot of reviews. 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g147409-Activities-c25-St_John_U_S_Virgin_Islands.html


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## Tia

Not used Amalie, but with Avis it's a choice and can't see it being different.



emuyshondt said:


> When you rent from Amalie Car Rental, *do you have to pay extra for their rental insurance, or can you use your own personal car insurance, like you can with Connor, on St. John?*
> 
> Are the lines for the car ferries long? In particular, coming back from St. John on a Sunday (May 25, Memorial Day weekend) for a 1:50 PM flight, how early do you have to be at the dock to be sure you can get on the 10:30 am ferry? I have no idea if you need to be there an hour before ferry departure, or if 10 minutes ahead is enough ...


----------



## Henry M.

Thanks for the list, Lisa.

Anyone with experience with the ferry lines?


----------



## Crasherino

emuyshondt said:


> Do you have a favorite for the local charters?



I'm not sure if he goes to the Baths, but Capt John of Palmtree Charters is terrific.  We went out with him in December and had a great time.  I've never heard anything but great things about him.  

His wife Sue works at the Westin as well down by the pool.  She's also great.


----------



## Henry M.

Thanks for the reference!


----------



## Henry M.

I just got an updated list of resale prices from Islandia Real Estate. It includes all the listing available through today, April 21. Copy/Paste didn't work for me, and I don't know how to post a pdf file. If interested, PM me and I'll e-mail the file to you. 

Here's what the realtor, Lynn Giovanna, had to say regarding the market:

_Greetings from Sunny St. John!

I hope you are doing well. We currently have 133 units on the resale market which is the lowest inventory we have had in several years. Attached is the current resale list for your review. The sales activity is picking up some with 22 units sold/pending for 2014 YTD compared to 20 that sold in 2013. There are many motivated Sellers so please contact me if you see anything that strikes your interest. Is one week on St. John not enough??  I can also help you find the perfect villa! I am glad to help with any questions you may have. 

Thanks & have a good day! Lynn_


----------



## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> Thanks for the reference!



We are going w/ Capt John this visit, but as mentioned here - The Baths are a good distance away - time, gas=money, sea conditions (?) - you may want a fast, smooth boat. We would take Bad Kitty - even with it's downside.  CruzBay Watersports' boat at WSJ (Island Time?) goes there as well.  Heck, you could even get to JVD by public ferry... not advised.

As to ferry lines - I do not think this will be an issue, but better to be on early side than late. We ended up being the last car on our return ferry last June - it is about 30-45 mins between runs.  If you want to know if there will be lines at that particular time - ask on vinow.com - only locals will have that knowledge.


----------



## ekinggill

*Charters*



emuyshondt said:


> Do you have a favorite for the local charters?



Sailing to JVD:  We had a great time with Cloud 9 going snorkeling and to JVD.  Two nice boats, helpful crew.  Very professional.  

Last year chartered the Wayward Sailor.  It is an old small boat that is not very fast...but Captain Phil is a treasure.  He was a marine biologist or something in a past life and made the snorkeling stop the best we ever had.  He took us on a walk through town after lunch at Foxy's and really gave us a history lesson and a connection to the kind folks who live there. 

 In the past we had a great experience with Jennie Lewis on Dream Weaver.  Unfortunately she had some personally issues and let the boat fall into disrepair.  I've been hearing she has turned it around and if she gets the boat back into shape, I for sure would go back out with her.  She's a great host, person, and sailor.  You can ask Terri at the resort concierge desk for an update on Captain Jennie and the boat...she is a great resource.

Power boat to Baths/Caves:  We put together our own group of 11 and chartered the Blast through Cruz Bay Water Sports at the resort.  Awesome.  The staff couldn't do enough for us, the boat was fast and steady, and the private charter cost the same per person as a mass trips with 50+ on board. 

Have a great time and please share your experience with whomever you choose.


----------



## tomandrobin

We have gone to The Baths via Bad Kitty and using the public inter-island ferry. 

There are advantageous and disadvantageous to both. 

The Ferry is the cheapest option and gives you the most time at the island. By using the ferry, we were able to spend 4-5 hours on the island. To a taxi to the Baths, ate lunch on the cliff top overlooking the Baths, had time to really explore The Baths formation and just relax. We even had time to shop in town before the ferry left to go back to St John. 

Bad Kitty is fast and smooth, but is also expensive. The Baths is one of four stops.....you are on a schedule. The boat and ride is very nice, but we don't like the other stops and did not have enough time at any of them.


----------



## mjm1

*CruzBay Watersports and Thomas loses his son to a car accident*

As first timers, we took CruzBay Watersports to the Baths/Caves/Willy T's yesterday and had a very good time. It was a long day, but worth it. The Baths were the best part for us. Extremely beautiful area. I can understand why one would take the ferry and spend 4-5 hours.

On another note, we went down town the other day and Thomas for a smoothie. Very good as advertised. I don't recall seeing it on an earlier post, but Thomas lost his son a few months ago to an auto accident. He posted a news article on the side of the building. Thomas was in good cheer, which is normal based on other posts, and was talking with customers during our visit as well as another time we walked by. Sorry to hear about his loss, but he is dealing with it very well.

Mike


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## Crasherino

ekinggill said:


> Sailing to JVD:  We had a great time with Cloud 9 going snorkeling and to JVD.  Two nice boats, helpful crew.  Very professional.
> 
> *Last year chartered the Wayward Sailor.  It is an old small boat that is not very fast...but Captain Phil is a treasure.  He was a marine biologist or something in a past life and made the snorkeling stop the best we ever had.  He took us on a walk through town after lunch at Foxy's and really gave us a history lesson and a connection to the kind folks who live there.*
> 
> In the past we had a great experience with Jennie Lewis on Dream Weaver.  Unfortunately she had some personally issues and let the boat fall into disrepair.  I've been hearing she has turned it around and if she gets the boat back into shape, I for sure would go back out with her.  She's a great host, person, and sailor.  You can ask Terri at the resort concierge desk for an update on Captain Jennie and the boat...she is a great resource.
> 
> Power boat to Baths/Caves:  We put together our own group of 11 and chartered the Blast through Cruz Bay Water Sports at the resort.  Awesome.  The staff couldn't do enough for us, the boat was fast and steady, and the private charter cost the same per person as a mass trips with 50+ on board.
> 
> Have a great time and please share your experience with whomever you choose.



Captain Phil is great.  If you are interested in learning about the marine life, there's no better.  He'll get in the water with you and explain to you about everything you're seeing.  A side benefit - his mate Tarn (sp?) is really nice/helpful and is also one of the hosts at La Tapa - one of our personal favorites and often times hard to get into when the island is crowded.

I wouldn't go a whole day with Capt Phil with any more than 4 ppl though.  It can get pretty tight there.


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## LisaRex

That is so funny that you guys think so highly of Captain Phil and _Wayward Sailor_.  We went on his trip the first year we went, and were less than impressed with his gruff nature.  Lunch was delicious, and he did teach us to clean our masks well and how to look for octopi, but his bedside manner definitely needed some work. 

Maybe he was having a bad day.


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## Henry M.

I just got to St. John and wanted to put in another good word for Amalie Car Rental. The jeep we got today still smells like new, and had a grand total of 22 miles on it.  Great service so far.


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## DavidnRobin

emuyshondt said:


> I just got to St. John and wanted to put in another good word for Amalie Car Rental. The jeep we got today still smells like new, and had a grand total of 22 miles on it.  Great service so far.



Good to hear - I was hoping that the new Owners would be as good.  Reminds me to call them as a reminder of our upcoming trip. soon come


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## azsunluvr

*Next week!*



azsunluvr said:


> Thank you for the insight! We will definitely check out Bad Kitty!



My husband ended up contacting Sonic for our day trip. We will have to stay in USVI as the small kids do not have passports and the $35/pp exit fee is ridiculous for a few hours for all of us. Weren't able to rent cars from Amalie...they were sold out for the time we needed. Went with Dollar on the cars. They cannot guarantee car seats for the little ones so we have to drag car seats along. 

I've got a checked bag full of snacks and fun for the little ones and we are ready for this adventure with the whole family!


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## ferndale

*2 weeks till St. John!!*

DavidnRobin, 
    Hoping for some "drinks by the pool" time with y'all again!  I think y'all leave next weekend for the islands?  I'll text or pm you.  


If any other Tuggers are in St. John June 8-15, let me know.  Would love to get to know "virtual friends"


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## DavidnRobin

ferndale said:


> DavidnRobin,
> Hoping for some "drinks by the pool" time with y'all again!  I think y'all leave next weekend for the islands?  I'll text or pm you.
> 
> 
> If any other Tuggers are in St. John June 8-15, let me know.  Would love to get to know "virtual friends"



We will see you then - (Jun6-20) look forward to it.  Our new neighbors in the adjacent villa to ours may join.  He (Eric) ejoys scuba as well.  Good folks.


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## Henry M.

*Reef Trail Hike*

Last week I did a nice hike with the National Park Service. It is called the Reef Bay Hike. For $30, I thought it was a great value. 

About 30 hikers met at the NPS Headquarters in Cruz Bay. From there they take you by taxi up to the trail head on Centerline Rd. The hike The NPS guide tells you about the history of some of the ruins you encounter, as well as something about the various trees and flora of the area. 

The hike is almost all downhill, except for a few stone steps to go look at some petroglyphs. At the end, you get to some ruins of an old sugar mill. A boat picks you up at the beach to take you back to NPS Headquarters. All in all, a nice activity on the island. You could do the hike on your own, but then you'd have to climb back up the several hundred feet you drop from the road to the beach.

You do have to make reservations well ahead of time. I think they have hikes Tuesdays and Thursdays, and are almost always sold out. We called a couple of weeks before we got to St. John and gave them a credit card number to secure our spots.

The only downside to the whole event was the amount of mosquitoes. This year it seemed everywhere on the island there were more mosquitoes than when we were there last year. I guess all the rain in the last couple of weeks stirred them up.


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## DavidnRobin

It is the rain - following rain mosquitoes thrive. I hope it stays dry in the next couple of weeks.
The Reef Bay NPS hike is a great bargain.  They are doing other tours as well iirc.


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## Henry M.

There is also another hike called L'Esperance, but I think it is much more strenuous. Unfortunately, it appears it will only go through June as the person that does that hike is leaving his or her position at the NPS.

I would have liked to do that one too, but I didn't know about it ahead of time and didn't have time during this trip. Both my daughter and I caught some nasty virus and were feeling rather under the weather the last couple of days.


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## Henry M.

*Sailing trips*

Last year we took the Cruz Bay Watersports trip to Virgin Gorda. This year we went with Bad Kitty, based on reports here. Here are my thoughts about them:

The Island Time boat from CBWS picks you up right off the dock at the Westin. Very convenient, but it only takes 5 minutes by car to get to Cruz Bay to take Bad Kitty. Bad Kitty actually moors it's boat in front of the Westin, but they are not allowed to pick anyone up there. 

Island Time is a little slower than Bad Kitty (18 knots vs. 23 knots). Bad Kitty is able to make an extra stop at Jost van Dyke (Soggy Dollar). That stop was lots of fun this year. 

I preferred the way CBWS drops you off at the Baths, and let's you explore the Baths on your own. Bad Kitty had the whole group stay together and felt a little more rushed. However, it was still a nice tour. They drop you off on one side of the park, and pick you up on the other. With CBWS, you get dropped off on one beach, and are picked up at the same place.

With Bad Kitty, your only option is to swim to shore and back onto the boat. With Island Time, they have a dinghy for those that don't want to get wet or for some reason can't make the 50 or 60 yard swim to shore.

CBWS provides a dry bag to get your camera and phone to shore, with Bad Kitty, you have to provide your own dry bag. You can buy one inexpensively in Spanish Town (neither Spanish, nor an actual town), where Bad Kitty clears customs on Virgin Gorda. You are allowed to get off the boat there. CBWS clears customs on Tortola, and you stay on the boat the whole time the process takes place. I liked the Bad Kitty stop better.

On our trip we had 28 people on board out of a maximum 33. It felt a little crowded on Bad Kitty but still it was lots of fun. If it had been totally full, it might have been uncomfortable. There was hardly enough space for everyone to sit as it was.

The snorkeling stop Bad Kitty did at The Wall at Peters Island was a lot nicer than the stop CWBS did last year.

Bottom line, both outfits provide a nice excursion. I'll probably use Bad Kitty next time, but if I needed the dinghy ride to shore, I wouldn't hesitate to go with CBWS. 

One thing I didn't like this year is that the Coast Guard now requires everybody to wear a snorkeler's vest when you are in the water. You don't necessarily have to inflate it, but you have to be wearing it when swimming to shore at the Baths or when snorkeling. I would have preferred for this to be optional, but those are the new rules within the last year or so.


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## hefleycatz

Thanks so much for the review.  We are going on Thursday with Bad Kitty.    We snorkeled Maho and Hawksnest today.  I saw the biggest starfish that I have ever seen.  Also got DH hooked.  He had a great time and can't wait for tomorrow.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Henry M.

There are some interesting reefs at Hawksnest. I also like swimming near the islands/cause at Trunk and Cinnamon. 

I still need to make it out to Waterlemon Caye. Maybe next time. 

Have a great time. We sure did.


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## carpie99

Is there any good snorkeling on the south side of the island?  My fiancee and I are taking our 4 kids (not all have passports) so we were going to rent a private charter to snorkel only US spots.

Actually can you snorkel off any of the BVI islands without doing a customs clearance if you don't dock?

Just wondering what my options are.


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## LisaRex

carpie99 said:


> Actually can you snorkel off any of the BVI islands without doing a customs clearance if you don't dock?
> 
> Just wondering what my options are.



I highly doubt it.  Your captain will certainly know, as it's his boat that will be impounded if he doesn't follow protocol.     

Your captain will also offer suggestions on where to go, based not only on your preferences, but also on the weather and ocean conditions on the day you travel.  He'll definitely have a few generic itineraries that he's done a hundred times before, that minimize travel time, customs wait, and gas consumption, while maximizing your chances of seeing diverse marine life with the clearest visibility possible.  

If you want to know what some of your options are if you stay stateside, visit the website of your charter.  Most list their common itineraries.  Or scroll down to the "Staying stateside?" section of this website for some ideas.  Or call and chat with a captain.

http://piratesparadiseadventures.com/plan-yer-day/


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## Henry M.

We did most of our snorkeling on the north side beaches, from Hawksnest to Leinster Bay. Many nice places there. 

The only south side beach we went to was on the eastern end of the island, at Salt Pond, near Coral Bay.

You are not legally allowed to go anywhere in the British Virgin Islands without clearing customs, for which you'll need passports for everybody. There should be nice spots on the USVI side of things. I'd probably rely on the charter captain to suggest places to go.

We met a couple that has a house on St. John, and they highly recommended Palm Tree Charters to us. I haven't tried them. 

PS: I see Lisa posted as I was writing my response. Ditto what she said.


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## DavidnRobin

carpie99 said:


> Is there any good snorkeling on the south side of the island?  My fiancee and I are taking our 4 kids (not all have passports) so we were going to rent a private charter to snorkel only US spots.
> 
> Actually can you snorkel off any of the BVI islands without doing a customs clearance if you don't dock?
> 
> Just wondering what my options are.



No - you cannot.  Well... You can, but at risk of having boat confiscated and being fined.  No way a charter captain would take this risk.  BVI is hurting themselves financially with their policies and processes.
(Unfortunately they do not see it that way)
IMO


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## hefleycatz

Just a quick note about the owners updates... The $125 in "sand dollars" that you receive can also be used at several off site facilities.  Zozos  and Bad Kitty being a couple of them.  Decided to use for our bad kitty trip tomorrow. Well worth my 75 minutes that I kept them at today. :-0 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tomandrobin

DavidnRobin said:


> No - you cannot.  Well... You can, but at risk of having boat confiscated and being fined.  No way a charter captain would take this risk.  BVI is hurting themselves financially with their policies and processes.
> (Unfortunately they do not see it that way)
> IMO



Correct....

And if you leave St John, check-in at BVI customs, when you return to St John you have to clear US customs before snorkeling or setting anchor again.


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## DavidnRobin

OK - time for a bump, but due to issues of this thread being too large (most viewed on the SW forum by far - proud to say that this thread has great info and has lead to changes/actions for WSJ Owners and visitors ) - I am going to start a Part 2 and link this thread up-front as well as trip report links.  Hope that is okay with everyone...

Here is the link to Part 2:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213071


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## DeniseM

Closing this thread because some people can't access it - as Dave posted above, here is a link to the NEW WSJ Master Thread:

*http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213071​*


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