# WorldMark - Wyndham Club Pass



## cotraveller

Here's an update with some info from the minutes of the September 23, 2013 WorldMark Board of Directors meeting.  The minutes finally showed up on the WorldMark web site today, 4 1/2 months after the meeting.

"_Wyndham Club Pass will allow all WorldMark owners who purchased prior to November 5, 2006, or who purchased from the developer on or alter November 5, 2006, to use their Vacation Credits to book reservations at other Wyndham resorts beginning nine months before check-in.

Wyndham Club Pass will nearly double the number of resorts that WorldMark owners will be able to reserve using their Vacation Credits. There will be a $99 transaction fee to book reservations through Wyndham Club Pass. Reservation bookings are expected to begin mid-summer, 2014._"

Based on that excerpt those WorldMark owners with accounts purchased before Travelshare (like our account) who were grandfathered in to with access to the Wyndham resorts under the TEN agreement will be grandfathered in to Wyndham Club pass.  If the availability under Wyndham Club Pass is similar to what it was up until now for WorldMark owners to access the Wyndham resorts, I wouldn't count on being able to book much with the new system.


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## presley

Not sure how much will be available, but that $99. fee looks quite a bit better than the $209. RCI exchange fee.  I'm not eligible, but I hope it works out for the owners that are.


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## cotraveller

presley said:


> Not sure how much will be available, but that $99. fee looks quite a bit better than the $209. RCI exchange fee.  I'm not eligible, but I hope it works out for the owners that are.



From my standpoint, the $99 fee is a new fee that I did not have to pay before.  Booking Wyndham resorts under the TEN agreement did not involve any additional fees over the normal WorldMark credits and HK fees.  Of course since I have only booked on Wyndham resort since they became available to WorldMark owners in 2006 I doubt that the additional fee will be much of  a financial hit on my budget.


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## PassionForTravel

I think the big difference between ten and club Wyndham pass is that you will have access to all Wyndham resorts and units that are available at 9 months rather than just a couple of units at a few select resorts. Same with club Wyndham, access to WM units.

Ian


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## ronparise

PassionForTravel said:


> I think the big difference between ten and club Wyndham pass is that you will have access to all Wyndham resorts and units that are available at 9 months rather than just a couple of units at a few select resorts. Same with club Wyndham, access to WM units.
> 
> Ian



That was my question too.  How much inventory was available under TEN.. and if its the same as the amount of Worldmark that we Wyndham owners used to see;....it aint much

So it didnt cost you anything... You got what you paid for...nothing

Club Pass at least promises some inventory


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## cotraveller

ronparise said:


> That was my question too.  How much inventory was available under TEN.. and if its the same as the amount of Worldmark that we Wyndham owners used to see;....it aint much
> 
> So it didnt cost you anything... You got what you paid for...nothing
> 
> Club Pass at least promises some inventory



Under TEN, WorldMark owners typically had 15 to 20 Wyndham resorts available each year for direct booking with WorldMark credits.  The list of actual resorts available changed from year to year.  Reservations were made using normal WorldMark booking rules except that inventory didn't appear until 9 to 10 months before check-in dates. You could book the Wyndham affiliate resorts using Bonus Time if something became available in the 14 day BT booking window. There were no exchange fees involved. 

 Most of the Wyndham TEN resorts had 2 units available for WorldMark owners but there were exceptions.  The one I remember for sure was when Wyndham Waikiki was available with 6 units. I booked Wyndham Nashville using WorldMark credits, so while there was limited inventory it was possible to get a reservation.

So now we (WorldMark) will have access to maybe 55 resorts with an unknown number of units in each.  It will not operate like an exchange company, at least I don't think so. No rules have been published yet but nothing I have seen says you can deposit a week or that you can only reserve a week that an owner in the other system has deposited.

The inventory has to come from somewhere.  Under TEN it was set each year, with a fixed number of resorts and units in each system available to the other system.  How will Wyndham Club Pass set and maintain inventory?  That's an unknown at the moment, at least to me.


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## ronparise

cotraveller said:


> Under TEN, WorldMark owners typically had 15 to 20 Wyndham resorts available each year for direct booking with WorldMark credits.  The list of actual resorts available changed from year to year.  Reservations were made using normal WorldMark booking rules except that inventory didn't appear until 9 to 10 months before check-in dates. You could book the Wyndham affiliate resorts using Bonus Time if something became available in the 14 day BT booking window. There were no exchange fees involved.
> 
> Most of the Wyndham TEN resorts had 2 units available for WorldMark owners but there were exceptions.  The one I remember for sure was when Wyndham Waikiki was available with 6 units. I booked Wyndham Nashville using WorldMark credits, so while there was limited inventory it was possible to get a reservation.
> 
> So now we (WorldMark) will have access to maybe 55 resorts with an unknown number of units in each.  It will not operate like an exchange company, at least I don't think so. No rules have been published yet but nothing I have seen says you can deposit a week or that you can only reserve a week that an owner in the other system has deposited.
> 
> The inventory has to come from somewhere.  Under TEN it was set each year, with a fixed number of resorts and units in each system available to the other system.  How will Wyndham Club Pass set and maintain inventory?  That's an unknown at the moment, at least to me.



My understanding is that it wont be a fixed number of units available, Rather all the Worldmark inventory available at 9 months (at 55 select resorts) will be available to Wyndham owners and vice versa.

The assumption is that the demand will be similar and that the number of reservations in Wyndham resorts made by Worldmark owners will be equal to the number of reservations made by Wyndham owners in Worldmark resorts. There are supposed to be audits. I assume if there is an imbalance inventory will be restricted untilthere is a return to balance


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## cotraveller

ronparise said:


> My understanding is that it wont be a fixed number of units available, Rather all the Worldmark inventory available at 9 months (at 55 select resorts) will be available to Wyndham owners and vice versa.
> 
> The assumption is that the demand will be similar and that the number of reservations in Wyndham resorts made by Worldmark owners will be equal to the number of reservations made by Wyndham owners in Worldmark resorts. There are supposed to be audits. I assume if there is an imbalance inventory will be restricted untilthere is a return to balance



If that is the way they do it I suspect it will cause some major heartburn for some owners.  I can hear the WorldMark complaints already.  *WE'VE ALWAYS HAD A HARD TIME GETTING A RESERVATION AND NOW WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF WYNDHAM OWNERS STEALING THEM AWAY FROM US*. (Bold Caps intentional, those complaints will be shouted).

Never mind the fact that the 9 month inventory isn't the prime inventory and if you really wanted it as a WorldMark owner you could have booked it at 9 months and 1 day or sooner, before those Wyndham owners could beat you to it. One slightly valid complaint might be that in WorldMark you can't book short stays before 9 months and with Wyndham Club Pass you will have more competition for those short stays including weekend bookings.

For someone who books reservations like we do it could be a good deal.  We tend to travel more in the "here's somewhere we can go" mode and if I see something that looks enticing I'll book it (with DW's concurrence of course).  We seldom look for a specific week at a specific resort.  An advantage of being retired and having a flexible schedule.  With 55 more resorts to choose from we may find new places to visit, even if they are considered less desirable by other owners and don't book up fast.


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## ladycody

For every Wyn owner that books a WM resort...there will be a WM owner that leaves our system to book Wyn....so availability shouldn't change much provided they audit appropriately.  I DO however have issues with the fact that they get access to our time at the exact same moment that our availability opens for short stays.  There should be at least a day or two of advance access to our short stay availability.


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## uscav8r

ladycody said:


> For every Wyn owner that books a WM resort...there will be a WM owner that leaves our system to book Wyn....so availability shouldn't change much provided they audit appropriately.  I DO however have issues with the fact that they get access to our time at the exact same moment that our availability opens for short stays.  There should be at least a day or two of advance access to our short stay availability.



I'm an owner in both systems, but I agree... They should have gone with an 8-month time horizon to make things even for both sets of owners. Currently Wyndham opens up its resorts to non-priority booking at 10 months. WVO owners are still restricted to resort-specific stay lengths (usually 3, 4, or 7 days) and check-in/out days (FRI/SAT/SUN, though some are just SUN, while others are FRI/SUN, etc. for week-long stays) until the 90-day mark.


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## cotraveller

ronparise said:


> My understanding is that it wont be a fixed number of units available, Rather all the Worldmark inventory available at 9 months (at 55 select resorts) will be available to Wyndham owners and vice versa.





ladycody said:


> For every Wyn owner that books a WM resort...there will be a WM owner that leaves our system to book Wyn.



Those two quotes contradict each other.  Ron says that the entire WorldMark inventory will be open to Wyn owners at 9 months.  Ladycody says it is a 1 for 1 exchange.  If Ron is right there is no build in reciprocity.  A Wyn owner can book 1 WorldMark unit or 1,000 WorldMark units without any Wyn units being booked by WorldMark owners. And vice versa. In practice I'm sure there will be owners from both systems booking in the other system, but if Ron is right it is not a requirement.


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## lcml11

cotraveller said:


> Those two quotes contradict each other.  Ron says that the entire WorldMark inventory will be open to Wyn owners at 9 months.  Ladycody says it is a 1 for 1 exchange.  If Ron is right there is no build in reciprocity.  A Wyn owner can book 1 WorldMark unit or 1,000 WorldMark units without any Wyn units being booked by WorldMark owners. And vice versa. In practice I'm sure there will be owners from both systems booking in the other system, but if Ron is right it is not a requirement.



I do not think it is going to be a free for all for anyone except maybe Wyndham on the exchange fees.  

My guess this is a incremental something towards something.

As far as I can tell, there will be no radical changes up front.  It will be a incremental thing with Wyndham making adjustments as they go.


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## ronparise

cotraveller said:


> Those two quotes contradict each other.  Ron says that the entire WorldMark inventory will be open to Wyn owners at 9 months.  Ladycody says it is a 1 for 1 exchange.  If Ron is right there is no build in reciprocity.  A Wyn owner can book 1 WorldMark unit or 1,000 WorldMark units without any Wyn units being booked by WorldMark owners. And vice versa. In practice I'm sure there will be owners from both systems booking in the other system, but if Ron is right it is not a requirement.



I also said the entire Wyndham inventory (in 55 resorts) will be open to Worldmark owners, and that the expectation is that the demand one for the other will be equal...and that audits are planned to make sure things arent one sided.

I think Lady Cody and I are saying the same thing...she just used less words.


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## lcml11

ronparise said:


> I also said the entire Wyndham inventory (in 55 resorts) will be open to Worldmark owners, and that the expectation is that the demand one for the other will be equal...and that audits are planned to make sure things arent one sided.
> 
> I think Lady Cody and I are saying the same thing...she just used less words.



I think availability will go to where Wyndham gets the fee.  If the West Coast is popular Wyndham Vacation Resorts owners win.  If the East Coast is popular then Worldmark by Wyndham wins.  Remember, the exchange currency is points.  Points plus a fee go to Club Wyndham Pass.  The points then presumably go to whichever resort(s) have the demand.  Again, presumably, the high demand ones that could carry a premium of value to the exchanger that is worth the exchange fee.

If the Urban Resorts are the big hit in each other clubs, then maybe their could be a fall effect on more availability on the lower demand resorts.  That would be a good thing for the VIP owners.


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## ladycody

My understanding is that it will require audits...much like exchange deposits.  While we DO deposit exchanges into RCI and access to our systems is based on that...the number of such deposits are based on expected usage as determined by past usage patterns.  I expect that, while the systems will be open to one another in club pass...if an audit shows an unbalanced pattern of usage, accessibility will be shut off in whichever system is being overutilized.  We have no real info on how Club pass is being implemented...but that is the only thing that makes any sense to me based on what they HAVE released.  It would require a good deal of auditing in the beginning and subsequent regular audits to ensure equilibrium after that.


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## lcml11

ladycody said:


> ... While we DO deposit exchanges into RCI and access to our systems is based on that...the number of such deposits are based on expected usage as determined by past usage patterns.  I expect that, while the systems will be open to one another in club pass...if an audit shows an unbalanced pattern of usage, accessibility will be shut off in whichever system is being overutilized  ...



You could be right.  If the system you describe is how Wyndham is putting a bunch of inventory into RCI, then the basic system would be tried and true and it would just be a matter of putting the inventory into the new Club Wyndham Pass program.

The core question in my mind is, in addition to Bulk Deposits into RCI (which requires a fee), is how much additional inventory is going to relocate into the Club Wyndham Pass system under a Bulk Deposit approach and/or under the system you described?

Maybe, if we are lucky, Wyndham will stop using RCI and put the bulk deposits in Wyndham Club Pass that formally went there.  I know, I am not awake yet and am just dreaming.

For any regular RCI users that are out there, anyone notice any significant amount of delayed or non-existant bulk deposits?  If so, at what resorts.  If memory serves, someone mentioned National Harbor in one thread that may have had some delayed bulk deposits.


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## ladycody

Based on how they're describing it I would expect the systems to be wide open to one another with an ability to shut it down if the numbers become imbalanced....but dunno.  Maybe someone can ask Bob Morrison to provide more details on the FB site...he doesn't respond to me.


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## slabeaume

I noticed on the Wyndham site, it showed WM Seaside and RunningY going to the new program this summer, but didn't mention the other Oregon WM resorts.  Are they all going to be available to Wyndham?


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## presley

slabeaume said:


> I noticed on the Wyndham site, it showed WM Seaside and RunningY going to the new program this summer, but didn't mention the other Oregon WM resorts.  Are they all going to be available to Wyndham?


There won't be any Seaside units available at 9 months.  I don't know about the other Oregon resorts.  Seaside (summer months) is fully booked at my 13 month priority window.


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## slabeaume

presley said:


> There won't be any Seaside units available at 9 months.  I don't know about the other Oregon resorts.  Seaside (summer months) is fully booked at my 13 month priority window.



I'm a Worldmark owner, too, so I'm familiar with how they book up.   Just curious why the Wyndham site only mentions those 2 ORegon resorts if all WM resorts will be available in the new program.


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## lcml11

presley said:


> There won't be any Seaside units available at 9 months.  I don't know about the other Oregon resorts.  Seaside (summer months) is fully booked at my 13 month priority window.



This will be a great resort to watch when Wyndham Club Pass roles out.  If there is inventory available on day 1 of the Summer time frame window then that should tell the story.

I give up.  Where on the Wyndham site was the info on the two Worldmark resorts found?

Here are some updates for Wyndham Club Plus losses for a direct scheduling capability by Resort name.  Info from the Members Directory (click on the resort picture and the message will pop up).
______
UPDATE for WorldMark Running Y

This Resort is Moving to WYNDHAM Club PassSM!

The WorldMark® resort you selected was formerly an associate property, and is now moving to WYNDHAM Club Pass, Wyndham Vacation Resorts and WorldMark by Wyndham's new internal exchange program.

WYNDHAM Club Pass is a simple way to give our CLUB WYNDHAM® owners the freedom to move outside of the Club, expanding your access to unique destinations found across the country!

More information will be shared in coming months — stay tuned!
______

UPDATE for other resorts with the same or similar messages:  WorldMark Red River, WorldMark Santa Fe, WorldMark San Diego Mission Valley, WorldMark Estes Park, WorldMark Braunfells, WorldMark Seaside, etc.

I wonder if resorts that have both Wyndham Club Pass/Access units and Worldmark by Wyndham units will loss availabily to each other as the Club Pass Resorts role out.  Indio would be an example of this.


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## slabeaume

lcml11 said:


> This will be a great resort to watch when Wyndham Club Pass roles out.  If there is inventory available on day 1 of the Summer time frame window then that should tell the story.
> 
> I give up.  Where on the Wyndham site was the info on the two Worldmark resorts found?
> 
> Here are some updates for Wyndham Club Plus losses for a direct scheduling capability by Resort name.  Info from the Members Directory (click on the resort picture and the message will pop up).
> ______
> UPDATE for WorldMark Running Y
> 
> This Resort is Moving to WYNDHAM Club PassSM!
> 
> The WorldMark® resort you selected was formerly an associate property, and is now moving to WYNDHAM Club Pass, Wyndham Vacation Resorts and WorldMark by Wyndham's new internal exchange program.
> 
> WYNDHAM Club Pass is a simple way to give our CLUB WYNDHAM® owners the freedom to move outside of the Club, expanding your access to unique destinations found across the country!
> 
> More information will be shared in coming months — stay tuned!
> ______
> 
> UPDATE for other resorts with the same or similar messages:  WorldMark Red River, WorldMark Santa Fe, WorldMark San Diego Mission Valley, WorldMark Estes Park, WorldMark Braunfells, WorldMark Seaside, etc.
> 
> I wonder if resorts that have both Wyndham Club Pass/Access units and Worldmark by Wyndham units will loss availabily to each other as the Club Pass Resorts role out.  Indio would be an example of this.



I went to the Wyndham site to check for reservations for something else and it showed Seaside.  So I clicked on it and it said something about coming in the summer along with Running Y.  Therefore I assumed it would be limiting Wyndham access to certain resorts.  I'll have to check it out more thoroughly.


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## lcml11

slabeaume said:


> I went to the Wyndham site to check for reservations for something else and it showed Seaside.  So I clicked on it and it said something about coming in the summer along with Running Y.  Therefore I assumed it would be limiting Wyndham access to certain resorts.  I'll have to check it out more thoroughly.



Thanks for the info.


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## markb53

slabeaume said:


> I'm a Worldmark owner, too, so I'm familiar with how they book up.   Just curious why the Wyndham site only mentions those 2 ORegon resorts if all WM resorts will be available in the new program.



It's probably because those two were associate resorts in the Wyndham system. The others were never available at all in the Wyndham system. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## lcml11

markb53 said:


> It's probably because those two were associate resorts in the Wyndham system. The others were never available at all in the Wyndham system.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



I count 14 resorts under the WorldMark name marked on the Wyndham Club Plus map in the 2013-2014 Members Directory.  From the looks if it, the 2014-2015 Members Directory is going to have a much less cluttered map for the Western part of the U.S. for Associate Resorts.

If one poster is right that the Club Wyndham Access resorts are joining up with the Club Wyndham Pass program, I would guess that the Club Wyndham Pass program would have a initial resort collection equal to or in excess of 63 resorts.  If true, this would re-clutter up the map in the 2014-2015 directory under a color apparently to be determined for Club Wyndham Pass.


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## slabeaume

I just checked the Wyndham site and this is all it says when I click on the Seaside resort,

 "This Resort is Moving to WYNDHAM Club PassSM!
The WorldMark® resort you selected was formerly an associate property, and is now moving to WYNDHAM Club Pass, Wyndham Vacation Resorts and WorldMark by Wyndham's new internal exchange program.

WYNDHAM Club Pass is a simple way to give our CLUB WYNDHAM® owners the freedom to move outside of the Club, expanding your access to unique destinations found across the country!

More information will be shared in coming months — stay tuned!"


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## lcml11

cotraveller said:


> Here's an update with some info from the minutes of the September 23, 2013 WorldMark Board of Directors meeting.  The minutes finally showed up on the WorldMark web site today, 4 1/2 months after the meeting.
> 
> "_Wyndham Club Pass will allow all WorldMark owners who purchased prior to November 5, 2006, or who purchased from the developer on or alter November 5, 2006, to use their Vacation Credits to book reservations at other Wyndham resorts beginning nine months before check-in.
> 
> Wyndham Club Pass will nearly double the number of resorts that WorldMark owners will be able to reserve using their Vacation Credits. There will be a $99 transaction fee to book reservations through Wyndham Club Pass. Reservation bookings are expected to begin mid-summer, 2014._"
> 
> Based on that excerpt those WorldMark owners with accounts purchased before Travelshare (like our account) who were grandfathered in to with access to the Wyndham resorts under the TEN agreement will be grandfathered in to Wyndham Club pass.  If the availability under Wyndham Club Pass is similar to what it was up until now for WorldMark owners to access the Wyndham resorts, I wouldn't count on being able to book much with the new system.



What is the TEN agreement and is it continuing?

Found part of the answer:

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/education/pdfs/Exchange_Plus_Application.pdf

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/education/pdfs/TEN_Agreement.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hqdjxe3uyyovixx/vLCVOfSJCS/clubpass-1.pdf

The second link, this information is good at least as of November 1, 2013.  Take note of the Wyndham Vacation Resorts locations that are listed (Exhibit F, eight resorts are on the list at this point) and the short discussion of Wyndham Club Pass.  From this disclosure statement, it appears TEN is a continuing program.
______________________________________________________________________________
The below message appears for at least some of the locations that apparently had direct scheduling from WorldMark to Wyndham Club Plus Resorts:  Wyndham Ocean Blvd., Wyndham Ocean Ridge, Wyndham Sea Gardens, Wyndham Plam-Aire, Wyndham Vacation Resorts Panama City Beach, Wyndham Nashville, Wyndham Smoky Mountain, Wyndham Resort at Fairfield Glade, Wyndham Kingsgate, Wyndham National Harbor, Wyndham Skyline Tower, Wyndham Bentley Brook, Wyndham La Cascada, Wyndham Durango, and Wyndham Pagosa. 

This Resort is Moving to WYNDHAM Club PassSM

The CLUB WYNDHAM® resort you selected was formerly an affiliate property, and is now moving to WYNDHAM Club Pass, WorldMark by Wyndham and Wyndham Vacation Resort’s new internal exchange program.
WYNDHAM Club Pass is a simple way to give our WorldMark owners the freedom to move outside of the Club, expanding your access to unique destinations found across the country!
More information will be shared in coming months — stay tuned!

https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/

h.  Commercial Use of Accommodations Accommodations reserved through WYNDHAM Club Pass may not be used for commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, any illegal
activity or pattern of occupancy, rental, leasing, or use by a Member that WYNDHAM Club Pass, LLC, deems, in its sole discretion, could constitute a commercial use.  Any reservations made by a Member deemed to be engaged in commercial use of Accommodations is subject to immediate cancellation and no Credits or Points utilized for such reservations shall be refunded to the Member.  These restrictions do not apply to WYNDHAM Club Pass, LLC, or its affiliated entities.

It appears that Wyndham Affiliated Entities are free to rent at will.  

The shift of former availability from both programs appears to be well under way.


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## VacationDiva

Is anyone else disappointed that only developer-purchased points will apparently be applicable to this program? 

My immediate reaction is this will stick it to those of us who purchased after-market Wyndham or WorldMark contracts and make it even more difficult to book WorldMark properties (I am a Wyndham owner) and potentially the same situation for WorldMark owners who want to book Wyndham properties, but bought their contracts on the open market and not the developer. 

In the current system, I have had some success in booking WorldMark properties- we had a marvelous week at Seaside, OR in October- so am wondering if this will make our membership less valuable as I fear it will restrict our access to these properties. Am I understanding/interpreting this correctly? I'd appreciate others' thoughts on this.


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## lcml11

VacationDiva said:


> ... as I fear it will restrict our access to these properties. Am I understanding/interpreting this correctly? I'd appreciate others' thoughts on this.



There is a chance this could be what is emerging.  If I understand the disclosures correctly, both clubs are providing inventory that belongs to the owners of the Club to Club Wyndham Pass.  Re-Sale owners do not have access to Club Wyndham Pass.  Therefore, they loss the ability to get the timeshare periods that go to the Pass System, leaving them to compete against each other, their Club's VIP programs, etc.  

Once a timeshare period is in the Wyndham Club Pass system, it appears there are two primary methods of it going out.  The first to owners of the other club.  Second to authorized groups that are permitted to rent the inventory (apparently Wyndham Club Pass related groups of some sort).

If it goes to owners of the other club, then points in that club would then be given back to Club Wyndham pass to repeat the cycle.  The big winners may well be the groups that can rent the inventory.

If those posters that believe that it will just be exchanges from one system owner to another, maybe they can expand on that rational.


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## rhonda

VacationDiva said:


> Is anyone else disappointed that only developer-purchased points will apparently be applicable to this program?


Yeah, sorta.  As a WM owner, I was successful booking Wyndham Pagosa routinely.  I fretted for a bit then threw a few dollars at the problem to create a bandaid.  In my case, I joined WinPointVIP to provide access to booking Wyndham w/out the (prior) limited inventory restrictions and (future) $99 fee and source-of-points restriction.

I'm thinking going forward ... the best answer is to have points in both systems.


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## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> There is a chance this could be what is emerging.  If I understand the disclosures correctly, both clubs are providing inventory that belongs to the owners of the Club to Club Wyndham Pass.  Re-Sale owners do not have access to Club Wyndham Pass.  Therefore, they loss the ability to get the timeshare periods that go to the Pass System, leaving them to compete against each other, their Club's VIP programs, etc.
> 
> Once a timeshare period is in the Wyndham Club Pass system, it appears there are two primary methods of it going out.  The first to owners of the other club.  Second to authorized groups that are permitted to rent the inventory (apparently Wyndham Club Pass related groups of some sort).
> 
> If it goes to owners of the other club, then points in that club would then be given back to Club Wyndham pass to repeat the cycle.  The big winners may well be the groups that can rent the inventory.
> 
> If those posters that believe that it will just be exchanges from one system owner to another, maybe they can expand on that rational.



At first blush it my seem that since some club Wyndham inventory is going to Worldmark owners that will leave less inventory available to us. But you have to remember that this is a two way street, for every Worldmark owner taking some club Wyndham inventory, there will be a Wyndham owner going over to the other club,,,we dont have to compete with him.  So while it may be true that there is less inventory, there are also less Wyndham owners owners competing for that inventory

I guess what Im saying is: what difference does it make?  500000 wyndham owners competing for whats available at 9 months, or  499000 Wyndham owners and 1000 worldmark owners competing. Either way,  500000 owners and the same inventory


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## ronparise

VacationDiva said:


> Is anyone else disappointed that only developer-purchased points will apparently be applicable to this program?
> 
> My immediate reaction is this will stick it to those of us who purchased after-market Wyndham or WorldMark contracts and make it even more difficult to book WorldMark properties (I am a Wyndham owner) and potentially the same situation for WorldMark owners who want to book Wyndham properties, but bought their contracts on the open market and not the developer.
> 
> In the current system, I have had some success in booking WorldMark properties- we had a marvelous week at Seaside, OR in October- so am wondering if this will make our membership less valuable as I fear it will restrict our access to these properties. Am I understanding/interpreting this correctly? I'd appreciate others' thoughts on this.



I think you see it exactly right. resale owners have lost the ability to go after the 2 units made available to us in some of the Worldmark resorts.

There are other ways to get there though. You could find a Worldmark owner (resale)  that feels the same way and do a direct exchange. You provide them with a, lets say, ...Washington DC vacation and they provide you with a Seaside vacation. Or visit Craigs list...there is a big business done in Seaside rentals.


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## comicbookman

lcml11 said:


> Once a timeshare period is in the Wyndham Club Pass system, it appears there are two primary methods of it going out.  The first to owners of the other club.  Second to authorized groups that are permitted to rent the inventory (apparently Wyndham Club Pass related groups of some sort).
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> do you deliberately misstate things or are you just careless?  Inventory does not go "into" the club pass system, it is made available to club pass members In ADDITION to being available to the same people as before.  No wyndham or worldmark owners lose the ability to reserve within their system, regardless of whether they own resale or developer.  What resale only owners "lose" is the ability, as Ron said , to have a shot at the very limited number of units made available when the affected properties were considered affiliates.  Affiliates have historically come and they have gone.  So for the vast majority of owners, nothing has changed and for the developer point owners, we now have the option of spending $99 to reserve units in the other club.  Not that different from what we have with RCI or II  (although for now a little cheaper).  You are doing the sales weasels job for them by spreading fear and implying that resale points are being crippled.


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## lcml11

comicbookman said:


> lcml11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once a timeshare period is in the Wyndham Club Pass system, it appears there are two primary methods of it going out.  The first to owners of the other club.  Second to authorized groups that are permitted to rent the inventory (apparently Wyndham Club Pass related groups of some sort).
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> do you deliberately misstate things or are you just careless?  Inventory does not go "into" the club pass system, it is made available to club pass members In ADDITION to being available to the same people as before.  No wyndham or worldmark owners lose the ability to reserve within their system, regardless of whether they own resale or developer.  What resale only owners "lose" is the ability, as Ron said , to have a shot at the very limited number of units made available when the affected properties were considered affiliates.  Affiliates have historically come and they have gone.  So for the vast majority of owners, nothing has changed and for the developer point owners, we now have the option of spending $99 to reserve units in the other club.  Not that different from what we have with RCI or II  (although for now a little cheaper).  You are doing the sales weasels job for them by spreading fear and implying that resale points are being crippled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The number of units initially involved are shown in the disclosure statement for Club Wyndham Pass.  Check out the third place link in the list of links above.  Everyone to their own reading of the Wyndham Words of Wisdom.  For what it is worth, I would take them at their word for the status as of the date of the disclosure.
> 
> In reading the disclosure for Club Wyndham Pass, if I read it right, reservations can be made only in the systems that you are not a member of.  For example, since I am with Club Wyndham Plus I cannot get the Club Wyndham Plus reservations but I can get TEN ones.  If I were WorldMark, I could not get the TEN ones but could get the Club Wyndham Pass ones.
> 
> Your reading of this does not appear to be the same as mine.  Just a case in point, different people can read the same thing and come away with different meanings.
Click to expand...


----------



## cotraveller

[deleted by cotraveller]


----------



## lcml11

cotraveller said:


> [deleted by cotraveller]



In response to your now deleted comments, you may want to consult the links provided above.  Of particular interest would be the resorts that WorldMark owners can get reservations at through the TEN system.  I would like to observe that they are many many many resorts available through this system then just the WorldMark and Wyndham Club Plus systems.

I would also like to observe that you might want to also look at the disclosure for the Wyndham Club Pass system and take note that Wyndham's Words  of Wisdom specifically address the criteria used in selecting which TEN resorts are being permitted to be a part of the Wyndham Club Pass System

Just a pop quiz to see who has read the disclosures:  Which of the Wyndham Legal entities owns the name Wyndham Club Pass?


----------



## VacationDiva

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts, expertise, and wisdom. I love vacationing with Wyndham, but have a deep mistrust of the management and that goes double for the sales people. I really hope that this new program is an improvement for everyone, but at least a net neutral for us. My past experience makes me suspicious. We have been lied to so many times and their business practices are so opaque. We will be hyper-vigilant as this new program is implemented.  And, I will be skeptical until proved otherwise. Fool me once, shame on Wyndham. Fool me twice, shame on me.


----------



## lcml11

The answer to the pop quiz is the Hotel Group.


----------



## cotraveller

lcml11 said:


> In reading the disclosure for Club Wyndham Pass, if I read it right, reservations can be made only in the systems that you are not a member of.   . . .   *If I were WorldMark, I could not get the TEN ones but could get the Club Wyndham Pass ones.*



This is the statement I referred to as gibberish in the comments I deleted. I stand by that.  From the WorldMark  TEN agreement:

_Affiliate Resorts: Timeshare programs or Resorts for which Accommodations have been submitted to TEN.

Participating Affiliate Resorts are Resorts made available to Members

WYNDHAM Club Pass - an exchange program operated by VVYNDHAM Club Pass, LLC. Membership and access to available Accommodations in WYNDHAM Club Pass is included with TEN membership for TEN members _

That says that as a member of TEN I am automatically a member of Wyndham Club Pass and I can book all of those resorts, not just one group of the other.


----------



## lcml11

cotraveller said:


> This is the statement I referred to as gibberish in the comments I deleted. I stand by that.  From the WorldMark  TEN agreement:
> 
> _Affiliate Resorts: Timeshare programs or Resorts for which Accommodations have been submitted to TEN.
> 
> Participating Affiliate Resorts are Resorts made available to Members
> 
> WYNDHAM Club Pass - an exchange program operated by VVYNDHAM Club Pass, LLC. Membership and access to available Accommodations in WYNDHAM Club Pass is included with TEN membership for TEN members _
> 
> That says that as a member of TEN I am automatically a member of Wyndham Club Pass and I can book all of those resorts, not just one group of the other.



Time will tell, in light of what had happened to WorldMark availability over the court suit with Wyndham, I am guessing the words in the Wyndham Club Pass System will prevail.  The Wyndham Club Pass LLC is owned by Wyndham Vacation Ownership which also controls Club Wyndham Plus.  The use of the name is by agreement between the LLC and the Hotel Group.  Post lawsuit, I am not sure if Wyndham Vacation Ownership still controls WorkMark by Wyndham or not, but I believe they do.  I have seen it said that Wyndham voted for the two independent elected Board seats that had something to do with the lawsuit.


----------



## cotraveller

lcml11 said:


> Time will tell, in light of what had happened to WorldMark availability over the court suit with Wyndham, I am guessing the words in the Wyndham Club Pass System will prevail.  The Wyndham Club Pass LLC is owned by Wyndham Vacation Ownership which also controls Club Wyndham Plus.  The use of the name is by agreement between the LLC and the Hotel Group.  Post lawsuit, I am not sure if Wyndham Vacation Ownership still controls WorkMark by Wyndham or not, but I believe they do.  I have seen it said that Wyndham voted for the two independent elected Board seats that had something to do with the lawsuit.



You are digging your hole deeper and deeper.  WorldMark, the Club is a nonprofit California corporation.  WorldMark, the Club owns the WorldMark resorts free and clear.  Wyndham is a different for-profit corporation and is the developer and manager for WorldMark.  Legally they do not control WorldMark. They do control the WorldMark Board of Directors so in that sense they are in control.  

I know WorldMark and how it works.  I don't know Wyndham or how it works and for that reason I do not offer opinions on the Wyndham system.  Perhaps you should follow that lead and restrict your posts to the systems you know, if any.


----------



## comicbookman

lcml11 said:


> comicbookman said:
> 
> 
> 
> In reading the disclosure for Club Wyndham Pass, if I read it right, reservations can be made only in the systems that you are not a member of.  For example, since I am with Club Wyndham Plus I cannot get the Club Wyndham Plus reservations but I can get TEN ones.  If I were WorldMark, I could not get the TEN ones but could get the Club Wyndham Pass ones.
> 
> Your reading of this does not appear to be the same as mine.  Just a case in point, different people can read the same thing and come away with different meanings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again you take quotes out of context and then make fear inducing pronouncements.  Of course someone using club pass cannot use club pass to make reservations in their own system.  Once again I have to ask, are you a poor reader or do you deliberately misstate things to confuse people?
> from your comments above, I believe your misrepresentations in this and many other threads are deliberate.  In my mind that makes you no better than the sales weasels.
Click to expand...


----------



## CO skier

cotraveller said:


> ...  Legally they [Wyndham Vacation Ownership] do not control WorldMark. They do control the WorldMark Board of Directors so in that sense they are in control.



In practice, there is no difference.  Wyndham created the Wyndham Club Pass to distinguish developer sales from re-sales.  The WorldMark Board just danced to the Wyndham tune in approving the program.


----------



## benyu2010

CO skier said:


> In practice, there is no difference.  Wyndham created the Wyndham Club Pass to distinguish developer sales from re-sales.  The WorldMark Board just danced to the Wyndham tune in approving the program.



It presents value-added benefits to majority of ownership base either through direct purchase or grandfathered-in...Should BoD have any reason to disapprove it?


----------



## vacationhopeful

comicbookman said:


> Again you take quotes out of context and then make fear inducing pronouncements.  Of course someone using club pass cannot use club pass to make reservations in their own system.  Once again I have to ask, are you a poor reader or do you deliberately misstate things to confuse people?
> from your comments above, I believe your misrepresentations in this and many other threads are deliberate.  In my mind that makes you no better than the sales weasels.



So much truth in this quote of yours, comicbookman!. Thank you.

Wyndham is making money for Wyndham - the HOAs must raise HOA fees and those fees cover ONLY the costs to provide the management, staff, housekeeping, lights, amenities on a *COST PLUS basis *- approval reviewed and passed by the Board of Directors of each HOA. (let us not start any other discussion on who is on the HOA's boards).

The Reservation system is another matter. Those fees go directly to Wyndham and are NOT controlled by the owners with interests in the actual timeshare properties. Where do you think those $99 Guest Certificate Fees go? Or the Reservation Transaction fees? Housekeeping Fees MAY go to the individual resorts - but Wyndham might get a "collection fee" percentage. And don't forget, EVERYONE pays either 56 or 58 cent per 1K of points owned as either CWA or CWP owners ---* IF *you have access to the online reservation system, you PAY a corporate fee to use it. (and remember, that minimum fee was raised UP again).

Club Wyndham Pass is definitely PART of the reservation system - and WHAT was once a small fee generator will now have a $99 reservation fee on it. For EVERYONE - VIP or not, one time user or weekly user - will pay for something that was FREE (to the end user). As for limiting it to developer purchase points, it is a "ploy" to SELL more points to people WHO perceive some value. That is a personal decision for each owner - as is which hotel room to rent and its location.

Corporate Wyndham CAN NOT INCREASE its bottom line without either charging more to its captive membership or creating new sources of revenue.

In my humble opinion, YOU and each of YOU, have to determine what parts of the system YOU want to use and recognize YOU will most likely pay a FEE to use that "new & improved feature".

And personally, these fees with continue to increase and NEW fees will be invented. And the new fees will be SOLD or marketed as a NEW GREAT FEATURE TO IMPROVE THE VARIOUS OWNERS VACATION EXPERIENCE.


----------



## CO skier

benyu2010 said:


> It presents value-added benefits to majority of ownership base either through direct purchase or grandfathered-in...Should BoD have any reason to disapprove it?



Wyndham Club Pass is relatively benign for most WorldMark owners.  

The point is that whether the WM BOD had any reason to approve or disapprove based on the impact to owners does not enter their thought process.  The WM BOD is just a nominal figurehead.  Wyndham determines the direction for WorldMark the Club when it comes to major decisions such as new programs (TravelShare, Wyndham Club Pass), fee increases, new resorts.

Wyndham is not listed as the owner on the deeds to the WorldMark properties, and Wyndham is officially only the manager and developer for WorldMark, but for all practical purposes Wyndham Vacation Ownership owns WorldMark the Club.


----------



## lcml11

cotraveller said:


> You are digging your hole deeper and deeper.  WorldMark, the Club is a nonprofit California corporation.  WorldMark, the Club owns the WorldMark resorts free and clear.  Wyndham is a different for-profit corporation and is the developer and manager for WorldMark.  Legally they do not control WorldMark. They do control the WorldMark Board of Directors so in that sense they are in control.
> 
> I know WorldMark and how it works.  I don't know Wyndham or how it works and for that reason I do not offer opinions on the Wyndham system.  Perhaps you should follow that lead and restrict your posts to the systems you know, if any.



That would be five systems and my comments center around two of the five. If owners in Shell, Wyndham Club Plus, and WorldMark that are interested in following their own club or clubs, then they may very well might want to follow closely what was referred to as "One Company" in a recent owners update.  Topics discussed at the update was the emerging changes pertaining to availability pools, Shell Properties, the increased use of the the term Communities, and a new community being referred to as 55 plus 8, and Wyndham Club Pass.  The two programs that primarily were mentioned were the old Fairfield properties and the existing Wyndham Club Plus/Access program.


----------



## scootr5

lcml11 said:


> they may very well might want to follow closely what was referred to as "One Company" in a recent owners update.



Of course, many people don't believe much of what's spoken in an "owners update"/sales presentation.....


----------



## Rent_Share

If you are lcml11/rrlongwell you take it as written in stone . . . .



scootr5 said:


> Of course, many people don't believe much of what's spoken in an "owners update"/sales presentation.....


----------



## comicbookman

Rent_Share said:


> If you are lcml11/rrlongwell you take it as written in stone . . . .



And then you agree with yourself


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> *That would be five systems* and my comments center around two of the five. If owners in Shell, Wyndham Club Plus, and WorldMark that are interested in following their own club or clubs, then they may very well might want to follow closely what was referred to as "One Company" in a recent owners update.  Topics discussed at the update was the emerging changes pertaining to availability pools, Shell Properties, the increased use of the the term Communities, and a new community being referred to as 55 plus 8, and Wyndham Club Pass.  The two programs that primarily were mentioned were the old Fairfield properties and the existing Wyndham Club Plus/Access program.



I think where you go wrong is right here (Ive underlined and bolded it in your comment quoted above) when you say Club Pass is the 5th Wyndham timeshare system...it is not.

Wyndham Vacation Ownership develops, markets and sells vacation ownership interests and provides consumer financing to owners through its four primary consumer brands, 

CLUB WYNDHAM®, 
WorldMark by Wyndham, 
Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific and 
Shell Vacations Club.

Club Pass is an exchange program to enable members of Club Wyndham and Worldmark to use each others  resorts. It will probably be extended to Shell and my guess is Asia Pacific too


That you think of Club Pass as a new collection of resort inventory leads you down a wrong road.


----------



## cotraveller

CO skier said:


> Wyndham is not listed as the owner on the deeds to the WorldMark properties, and Wyndham is officially only the manager and developer for WorldMark, but for all practical purposes Wyndham Vacation Ownership owns WorldMark the Club.



No argument from me on that point.  That's the way it is and the way it always has been. Trendwest -> Cendant -> Wyndham, the manager/developer has always been in control.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> I think where you go wrong is right here (Ive underlined and bolded it in your comment quoted above) when you say Club Pass is the 5th Wyndham timeshare system...it is not.
> 
> Wyndham Vacation Ownership develops, markets and sells vacation ownership interests and provides consumer financing to owners through its four primary consumer brands,
> 
> CLUB WYNDHAM®,
> WorldMark by Wyndham,
> Wyndham Vacation Resorts Asia Pacific and
> Shell Vacations Club.
> 
> Club Pass is an exchange program to enable members of Club Wyndham and Worldmark to use each others  resorts. It will probably be extended to Shell and my guess is Asia Pacific too
> 
> 
> That you think of Club Pass as a new collection of resort inventory leads you down a wrong road.



The five are Wyndham Club Plus/Access, Shell Vacation Club, FantaSea Resorts, Bluegreen, WorldMark.  I should have counted Plus and Access as two different ones, different Board of Directors, different form of ownership Deeds vs. Certificates.  

Also did not include the Sands Ocean Club system in Myrtle Beach nor the many programs associated with the resorts mentioned.

You have raised a interesting concept.  Wyndham Club Pass being considered its own system.  This very well may be were this new kid on the block is going.  Nice thinking, I guess I am at six now under this concept.


----------



## Bigrob

lcml11 said:


> The five are Wyndham Club Plus/Access, Shell Vacation Club, FantaSea Resorts, Bluegreen, WorldMark.  I should have counted Plus and Access as two different ones, different Board of Directors, different form of ownership Deeds vs. Certificates.
> 
> Also did not include the Sands Ocean Club system in Myrtle Beach nor the many programs associated with the resorts mentioned.
> 
> You have raised a interesting concept.  Wyndham Club Pass being considered its own system.  This very well may be were this new kid on the block is going.  Nice thinking, I guess I am at six now under this concept.



Wait... what? Did Wyndham acquire Bluegreen? Maybe Marriott and Disney too? I thought Bluegreen was acquired by Woodbridge Holdings, LLC, a subsidiary of BFC Financial? Are you suggesting BFC Financial is a shell corp secretly held by Wyndham?


----------



## lcml11

Bigrob said:


> Wait... what? Did Wyndham acquire Bluegreen? Maybe Marriott and Disney too? I thought Bluegreen was acquired by Woodbridge Holdings, LLC, a subsidiary of BFC Financial? Are you suggesting BFC Financial is a shell corp secretly held by Wyndham?



You lost me on this one.  We were talking about which systems I knew about.  The five I listed are all different systems.  Some of them are under the Wyndham Worldwide control and some are not.  

Bluegreen and Wyndham are not the same.  FantaSea Resorts is a small resort operator.  They had three locations in Atlantic City among other locations.  One went to Bluegreen and it has been awhile, but I heard it was going to go back to them.

Bluegreen has a resort across the street from the Ocean in Myrtle Beach and one in Hershey Pa.  Those are the three that I am most familar with.

Sands Ocean Club had some sort of affiliation with Fairfield and they apparently went different directions.  Wyndham last heard still had some units there.  Years ago there was chatter that they might get back together with Wyndham.  Wyndham even had a sales desk in their lobby for awhile.  Nothing went final as far as I know.

WorldMark the Club, WorldMark by Wyndham, Club Wyndham Access, Club Wyndham Plus, Wyndham Rewards, RCI, Wyndham Club Pass, Shell Vacation Club, and Plus Partners are all under the control of or are owned by Wyndham Worldwide, I believe.  Some question on who is going to end up in control when the day is done with WorldMark, the Club.  Time will tell.


----------



## comicbookman

lcml11 said:


> You lost me on this one.  We were talking about which systems I knew about.



Given the incredible amount of misinformation you have posted about Wyndham, I don't think you can claim to "know about" any Wyndham unit.  Your posts make the sales weasels sound honest.  You make baseless assumptions and assertions, constantly mislabel things and pull "facts" and conclusions out of thin air.  Occasionally you misquote or take written material out of context to support your often contradictory pronouncements, which confuses the casual reader even more.  Finally, you use 2 different aliases to congratulate and agree with yourself.  Your posts mostly subvert the main function of these forums, which is to inform, answer questions and share insights.


----------



## Bigrob

lcml11 said:


> You lost me on this one.  We were talking about which systems I knew about.  The five I listed are all different systems.  Some of them are under the Wyndham Worldwide control and some are not.
> 
> Bluegreen and Wyndham are not the same.  FantaSea Resorts is a small resort operator.  They had three locations in Atlantic City among other locations.  One went to Bluegreen and it has been awhile, but I heard it was going to go back to them.
> 
> Bluegreen has a resort across the street from the Ocean in Myrtle Beach and one in Hershey Pa.  Those are the three that I am most familar with.
> 
> Sands Ocean Club had some sort of affiliation with Fairfield and they apparently went different directions.  Wyndham last heard still had some units there.  Years ago there was chatter that they might get back together with Wyndham.  Wyndham even had a sales desk in their lobby for awhile.  Nothing went final as far as I know.
> 
> WorldMark the Club, WorldMark by Wyndham, Club Wyndham Access, Club Wyndham Plus, Wyndham Rewards, RCI, Wyndham Club Pass, Shell Vacation Club, and Plus Partners are all under the control of or are owned by Wyndham Worldwide, I believe.  Some question on who is going to end up in control when the day is done with WorldMark, the Club.  Time will tell.



I thought you were saying there were five systems within Wyndham. Upon re-reading your message, you were saying you understand 5 timeshare systems.


----------



## lcml11

Maybe more people should share the results of what the "Sales Wessals" from Wyndham are saying.  Maybe then everyone can look for the kernal of truth from their presentations.  

Putting the kernals together can be interesting and informative.  

Also, maybe people should read through the the Wyndham report that was posted on a recent thread.  It might be a educational experience.

Just as a side line comment:  My Platinum means nothing.  I checked with Wyndham today on when I may be able to start using the Wyndham Club Pass system.  It is in operation.  Unfortunately, I am not one that will be permitted to use the early reservation period.

Oh well, I guess there goes all my best locations in California that I might have been interested in.  I am sure they will be gone before my day 1 starts.


----------



## benyu2010

CO skier said:


> Wyndham Club Pass is relatively benign for most WorldMark owners.
> 
> The point is that whether the WM BOD had any reason to approve or disapprove based on the impact to owners does not enter their thought process.  The WM BOD is just a nominal figurehead.  Wyndham determines the direction for WorldMark the Club when it comes to major decisions such as new programs (TravelShare, Wyndham Club Pass), fee increases, new resorts.
> 
> Wyndham is not listed as the owner on the deeds to the WorldMark properties, and Wyndham is officially only the manager and developer for WorldMark, but for all practical purposes Wyndham Vacation Ownership owns WorldMark the Club.



As long as it improves the product and vacation experience, no harm no foul...


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> ...Oh well, I guess there goes all my best locations in California that I might have been interested in.  I am sure they will be gone before my day 1 starts.



Take you $99 reservation fee per visit via Club Wyndham Pass and just buy yourself some Shell points.

You have been intently learning all there is to timeshare vacation renting and with your Platinum VIP ownership, you are should RENT and use that money to pay for your Western USA vacations.

You could also sign up this WinPoint to manage your Platinum VIP ownership --- then you really could vacation even more!


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> Wyndham Club Pass is relatively benign for most WorldMark owners.
> 
> The point is that whether the WM BOD had any reason to approve or disapprove based on the impact to owners does not enter their thought process.  The WM BOD is just a nominal figurehead.  Wyndham determines the direction for WorldMark the Club when it comes to major decisions such as new programs (TravelShare, Wyndham Club Pass), fee increases, new resorts.
> 
> Wyndham is not listed as the owner on the deeds to the WorldMark properties, and Wyndham is officially only the manager and developer for WorldMark, but for all practical purposes Wyndham Vacation Ownership owns WorldMark the Club.



I think its important to re emphasize this comment from Co Skier

Wyndham Club Pass is relatively benign for most WorldMark owners.  

I would go farther and say its not going to affect most of us at all. Most of us bought into Wyndham or Worldmark for access to some of the resorts, not all of them, Adding the possibility of 55 more resorts, that we werent interested in anyway, to the mix is not a big deal.  If we had wanted those resorts ( or some of them), we probably would have already bought into the other system already

Its important to realize that this is a developer "add on"  it doesnt change what we already own, and it doesnt take anything away from existing owners.  What it does do is to add more dots to the map that the sales force can use to convince a new prospect to buy.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> Take you $99 reservation fee per visit via Club Wyndham Pass and just buy yourself some Shell points.
> 
> You have been intently learning all there is to timeshare vacation renting and with your Platinum VIP ownership, you are should RENT and use that money to pay for your Western USA vacations.
> 
> You could also sign up this WinPoint to manage your Platinum VIP ownership --- then you really could vacation even more!



Not a bad idea on Shell points for Western US timeshares.  This is especially true if the rumored cross access between Shell and Wyndham comes to Wyndham Club Access and/or Wyndham Club Pass.


----------



## DeeDibble

*World Mark exchanges to Wyndham*

I have been to 3 updates in the last 6 weeks in south Florida.  At each update the presenter and salespeople talked about the up coming exchanges between Wyndham and Worldmark.  Needless to say I got 3 different stories about how the exchanges work.   I am hearing from 2 of them that there is a $99 exchange fee.  A 3rd one says there will not be a fee. Anyone know?   Next question:  at one point I heard that any of the exchanges until a 10 month window,  one person said at a 9 month window.  Does anyone know?


----------



## PassionForTravel

It's $99 and 9 months.

Ian


----------



## ronparise

and its for retail buyers only


----------



## benyu2010

ronparise said:


> and its for retail buyers only



plus plenty of pre-jun 2006 grandfathered accounts...


----------



## lcml11

benyu2010 said:


> plus plenty of pre-jun 2006 grandfathered accounts...



Also apparently plus some Wyndham related groups right to rent from that availability pool.


----------



## rleigh

ronparise said:


> [........]it doesnt take anything away from existing owners[.....]




WM owner here. Maybe I have an incorrect understanding. I thought that the affiliates that had no fee before will now have a $99 fee? Or will there still be a select few available without the fee?

I thought they will all become subjected to the fee now. That definitely is taking something away from me. I know the inventory and resorts changed sometimes, but there were always a select few to choose from.


----------



## vacationhopeful

rleigh said:


> WM owner here. .... That definitely is taking something away from me. .....



And Corporate Wyndham will be happy to take yours and my $99 as a fee to book what was included with our club membership before.

As a Wyndham points owner, I have seen so many of these fees needlessly increase for no justifiable reason --- like the GUEST CERTIFICATE fee from $29 as a call in center fee to $49 (about 2 month duration) to a $129 call in fee while telling us owners, that the improvement of having been added to the online computer system would ONLY COST us owners $99.   $30 MORE to use the call center (was $29 before) - same as the cost before ($1 higher technically), but WHY are we paying $99 MORE for the something where WE OWNERS are doing the typing? HOW much did that COMPUTER ENHANCEMENT COST for use owners to type in the GUEST CERTIFICATE?


----------



## ronparise

rleigh said:


> WM owner here. Maybe I have an incorrect understanding. I thought that the affiliates that had no fee before will now have a $99 fee? Or will there still be a select few available without the fee?
> 
> I thought they will all become subjected to the fee now. That definitely is taking something away from me. I know the inventory and resorts changed sometimes, but there were always a select few to choose from.



yep...you lost that. 

I never saw the inventory.  I guess you always got there before me


----------



## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> And Corporate Wyndham will be happy to take yours and my $99 as a fee to book what was included with our club membership before.
> 
> As a Wyndham points owner, I have seen so many of these fees needlessly increase for no justifiable reason --- like the GUEST CERTIFICATE fee from $29 as a call in center fee to $49 (about 2 month duration) to a $129 call in fee while telling us owners, that the improvement of having been added to the online computer system would ONLY COST us owners $99.   $30 MORE to use the call center (was $29 before) - same as the cost before ($1 higher technically), but WHY are we paying $99 MORE for the something where WE OWNERS are doing the typing? HOW much did that COMPUTER ENHANCEMENT COST for use owners to type in the GUEST CERTIFICATE?



Linda

I see the fees as an extra cost for an extra service.  Not something you ever have to pay.


----------



## rleigh

ronparise said:


> yep...you lost that.
> 
> I never saw the inventory.  I guess you always got there before me




I managed to utilize it a couple of times. So yeah, even thought it may just break down to an extra $99 every couple of years for me, when I actually go to make that booking that extra amount is really an *ouch* and would get in the way.

Not big deal in the scheme of things, but it does affect me.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Linda
> 
> I see the fees as an extra cost for an extra service.  Not something you ever have to pay.



Unless it was a lost benifit that you used.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Unless it was a lost benifit that you used.



I think I miss-used the word benefit.   and as a result you dont get the point Im making and that is the benefit of affiliate resorts is not an entitlement.

Certainly if an owner ever made a reservation at an affiliate resort or even if they thought they might ever want to make a reservation at an affiliate resort, and that resort is now not an affiliate.....they lost a benefit with the creation of Club Pass

The point Im trying to make is that the opportunity to make reservations at an affiliate resort is (or was) a benefit of ownership, It never was an entitlement.  Much like VIP benefits.  They are there now, and we VIP's use them and I for one benefit from them, but they are not part of what we own. They are extras provided to some of us but not something that we are entitled to. VIP benefits can be taken away or changed or we can be charged more for them at any time.


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## easyrider

Can Wyndham owners use Worldmark inventory as units for rent ? The info on the Worldmark site say that us WM owners can not use Wyndham inventory as rentals. 

I do not see the Wyndham London Harbour listed anywhere as an affiliated resort. Is this one off the list ?

Thanks
Bill


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## ronparise

easyrider said:


> Can Wyndham owners use Worldmark inventory as units for rent ? The info on the Worldmark site say that us WM owners can not use Wyndham inventory as rentals.
> 
> I do not see the Wyndham London Harbour listed anywhere as an affiliated resort. Is this one off the list ?
> 
> Thanks
> Bill



Rental of any club pass reservation is not allowed


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## cotraveller

As Ron pointed out in the other Club Pass thread, the Wyndham Club Pass resorts are now shown on the Resort Gallery Map on the WorldMark Web site.  I went through the map and counted 79 Wyndham resorts listed, plus 18 more that have both WorldMark and Wyndham units.

That is a lot more than the 55 resorts that the pre-announcement says WorldMark owners will have access to when Club Pass goes live in June.  Will we (WorldMark owners) really have access to all of the Wyndham resorts shown?  Or will the list be culled to 55 resorts?  Time will tell.


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## lcml11

cotraveller said:


> As Ron pointed out in the other Club Pass thread, the Wyndham Club Pass resorts are now shown on the Resort Gallery Map on the WorldMark Web site.  I went through the map and counted 79 Wyndham resorts listed, plus 18 more that have both WorldMark and Wyndham units.
> 
> That is a lot more than the 55 resorts that the pre-announcement says WorldMark owners will have access to when Club Pass goes live in June.  Will we (WorldMark owners) really have access to all of the Wyndham resorts shown?  Or will the list be culled to 55 resorts?  Time will tell.



The list will go up, if anything, not down.

Anyone know anything about the critter call Vacation Internationale that showed up?


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## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> Anyone know anything about the critter call Vacation Internationale that showed up?



WorldMark has a direct exchange agreement with certain Vacation Internationale locations.  Similar to WorldMark, VI is a mostly western US timeshare system.  I think the locations are available to book by any WorldMark owner but only as an Affiliate Rental, no special Pass is required; at $0.15 per credit, VI reservations are expensive by WorldMark standards.

The first building constructed at the Village at Steamboat was a VI location.  Two additional WorldMark buildings were constructed on the site in the early 2000s, so the relationship goes back a few years.

It is interesting that the VI locations are included through Wyndham Club Pass.  It really did open up the whole WorldMark system to Club Wyndham owners who can use it.


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## CO skier

cotraveller said:


> ... That is a lot more than the 55 resorts that the pre-announcement says WorldMark owners will have access to when Club Pass goes live in June.  Will we (WorldMark owners) really have access to all of the Wyndham resorts shown?  Or will the list be culled to 55 resorts?  Time will tell.



From the first release of the Wyndham Club Pass FAQ last year, the resort accessibility was listed as "more than 55 resorts".  It was never limited to just 55 resorts.


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## cotraveller

CO skier said:


> WorldMark has a direct exchange agreement with certain Vacation Internationale locations.  Similar to WorldMark, VI is a mostly western US timeshare system.  I think the locations are available to book by any WorldMark owner but only as an Affiliate Rental, no special Pass is required; at $0.15 per credit, VI reservations are expensive by WorldMark standards.



There are currently 6 VI resorts available for direct booking by WorldMark owners.  Three in Hawaii, one in Idaho, and two in Mexico.  They are booked just like any other WorldMark resort using your WorldMark credits.  All normal WorldMark booking rules apply, including the use of Bonus Time if it is available.  An exchange fee is added which I think is currently $129 for a full week and prorated for shorter or longer stays. We booked 1 night at the VI Villas de Santa Fe on Bonus Time in 2007 before WorldMark had a resort there.  

These resorts are not part of Wyndham Club Pass on the WorldMark side.  As CO skier said, they are available through a direct exchange agreement with VI.  I have not heard anything about those resorts going away when Club Pass goes online.


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## lcml11

CO skier said:


> WorldMark has a direct exchange agreement with certain Vacation Internationale locations.  Similar to WorldMark, VI is a mostly western US timeshare system.  I think the locations are available to book by any WorldMark owner but only as an Affiliate Rental, no special Pass is required; at $0.15 per credit, VI reservations are expensive by WorldMark standards.
> 
> The first building constructed at the Village at Steamboat was a VI location.  Two additional WorldMark buildings were constructed on the site in the early 2000s, so the relationship goes back a few years.
> 
> It is interesting that the VI locations are included through Wyndham Club Pass.  It really did open up the whole WorldMark system to Club Wyndham owners who can use it.



Thanks for the info.


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## markb53

*Dots on the Map*

The WorldMark Resorts are on the Wyndham website map and the Wyndham Resorts are on the WorldMark website map. It says they expect to allow booking in early June, which we already knew. Plus it says if you make a new purchase you will get access starting March 1st. 

I was at Wyndham Angels Camp last weekend and the enticement to do an "update" was that I would get to reserve into the 55+ new resorts early. I said "no thanks" don't think I want to know how to reserve early. 

Haven't heard anything lately about the Shell Properties that are supposed to become affiliates. They are not on the map yet.


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## am1

Regardless of how it works how easy will this make selling Wyndham to buyers??  What will the be the next biggest system?  With RCI pricing themselves out of the market, $99 a reservation is a pretty good deal.  Ill use wyndham points for wyndham resorts and worldmark credits for worldmark resorts when if I travel out west and the Wyndham resorts are not suitable.  

I do not like people taking my inventory but its the way it will be.


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## lcml11

markb53 said:


> The WorldMark Resorts are on the Wyndham website map and the Wyndham Resorts are on the WorldMark website map. It says they expect to allow booking in early June, which we already knew. Plus it says if you make a new purchase you will get access starting March 1st.
> 
> I was at Wyndham Angels Camp last weekend and the enticement to do an "update" was that I would get to reserve into the 55+ new resorts early. I said "no thanks" don't think I want to know how to reserve early.
> 
> Haven't heard anything lately about the Shell Properties that are supposed to become affiliates. They are not on the map yet.



Thanks for the update.  The 55 plus 8 community that was being pitched at Shawnee Village confirms that it was referring to Club Wyndham Pass, in the minds of the sales people.


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## ronparise

am1 said:


> I do not like people taking my inventory but its the way it will be.



Its not your inventory, its our inventory, and if some of us choose to trade their share for a vacation outside the system....why not?

The point is your inventory isnt being taken,  your fellow owners are trading their share instead of using it themselves


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## am1

That may be true but for someone who does not want to trade it is taking out inventory that is available to me.  Most likely higher demand inventory than lower demand inventory in relation to whats available at 9 months to check in. 

I would prefer this not be implemented.  Just like I do not like CWA giving owners ARP at all of their resorts.

I do see why Wyndham and other owners would.  



ronparise said:


> Its not your inventory, its our inventory, and if some of us choose to trade their share for a vacation outside the system....why not?
> 
> The point is your inventory isnt being taken,  your fellow owners are trading their share instead of using it themselves


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## lcml11

am1 said:


> That may be true but for someone who does not want to trade it is taking out inventory that is available to me.  Most likely higher demand inventory than lower demand inventory in relation to whats available at 9 months to check in.
> 
> I would prefer this not be implemented.  Just like I do not like CWA giving owners ARP at all of their resorts.
> 
> I do see why Wyndham and other owners would.



I think it has already been established through the Wyndham sites involved that Associate Resorts formally available without a exchange fee appear to be gone.  That being said, what appears to be emerging is that the distinction between the CWP and CWA inventories my becoming moot.

I do not remember which thread or post it showed up in, but if memory served, one poster was speculating that they may be drawiing from a common base for actual availability of units since points are the apparent currency and not actual units.


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## ronparise

am1 said:


> That may be true but for someone who does not want to trade it is taking out inventory that is available to me.  Most likely higher demand inventory than lower demand inventory in relation to whats available at 9 months to check in.
> 
> I would prefer this not be implemented.  Just like I do not like CWA giving owners ARP at all of their resorts.
> 
> I do see why Wyndham and other owners would.



If there was no Club Pass those owners would stay in their own system. The inventory doesnt change and the number of owners doesnt change

Regarding CWA...the odds of getting a reservation doesnt change either. 

Consider a hypothetical 100 unit nearly sold out resort with 5000 deeded owners  so for any one week there are potentially 5000 owners that want a reservation. Any owners chance of getting one is 5000 in 100  2%

Now lets assume that the developer approaches all 5000 owners and convinces 20% of them to convert their points to something called CWA and to support this new club a corresponding 20% of the units at our resort are placed in trust for this new club.  That means  4000 owners of the original deeds, and only 80 units. so now for any particular week your chances of getting a reservation are  4000 in 80 or 2%

So in terms of your chances of getting a reservation nothing changes


It doesnt matter to me if this is implemented or not. For me and all the resale owners its a non issue.  And I dont think its going to mean much to even the retail buyers...there just wont be much prime inventory left in either system at 9 months.  The folks that this is going to help are the salesmen that get to point at all the dots on the map


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## lcml11

ronparise said:


> If there was no Club Pass those owners would stay in their own system. The inventory doesnt change and the number of owners doesnt change
> 
> Regarding CWA...the odds of getting a reservation doesnt change either.
> 
> Consider a hypothetical 100 unit nearly sold out resort with 5000 deeded owners  so for any one week there are potentially 5000 owners that want a reservation. Any owners chance of getting one is 5000 in 100  2%
> 
> Now lets assume that the developer approaches all 5000 owners and convinces 20% of them to convert their points to something called CWA and to support this new club a corresponding 20% of the units at our resort are placed in trust for this new club.  That means  4000 owners of the original deeds, and only 80 units. so now for any particular week your chances of getting a reservation are  4000 in 80 or 2%
> 
> So in terms of your chances of getting a reservation nothing changes



Impressive Magic Math.  All owners do not want ARP at their own resort. That is what made point systems take off.


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## comicbookman

lcml11 said:


> Impressive Magic Math.  All owners do not want ARP at their own resort. That is what made point systems take off.



And the above nonsense comment brought to you by the math challenged.  Since the number of actual owners at each sold out resort cannot change, The same number of owners have ARP system wide. Which means the same number of units will be available at 10 months.  The only effect CWA has is to maybe change which resorts those units are at any given time.  So if you did not buy your unit for the ARP, your availability does not change.


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## vacationhopeful

ARP is important to different people for different reasons. That is WHY there are LOTS of ICE CREAM FLAVORS.

Here on TUG, I try to get a new possible timeshare owner to THINK before buying something ... even on the resale market, a poor timeshare purchase will haunt an owner for YEARS with MFs and possible handicap in booking the BEST RESERVATION for their family.

Do you have to buy ONLY for ARP? NO! But know what those letters mean.

Do you have to buy ONLY for the lowest MF per 1,000 points? NO! But understand that might mean something else in booking your dream vacations.

Yes, I pay MORE in MFs to get the reservations important to ME during the ARP reservation window. MY CHOICE ...


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## ronparise

comicbookman said:


> And the above nonsense comment brought to you by the math challenged.  Since the number of actual owners at each sold out resort cannot change, The same number of owners have ARP system wide. Which means the same number of units will be available at 10 months.  The only effect CWA has is to maybe change which resorts those units are at any given time.  So if you did not buy your unit for the ARP, your availability does not change.



and if you bought a deeded ownership at your favorite resort for the ARP, your odds of getting a reservation wont change, no matter the number of units switched over to CWA


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## am1

ronparise said:


> and if you bought a deeded ownership at your favorite resort for the ARP, your odds of getting a reservation wont change, no matter the number of units switched over to CWA



Is the amount of units that CWA owners can arp fixed or is it just a certain amount of points that can be arped at each resort for the year?

I use ARP with two of my contracts.  With CWA I would use every point with
ARP.


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## am1

vacationhopeful said:


> but WHY are we paying $99 MORE for the something where WE OWNERS are doing the typing? HOW much did that COMPUTER ENHANCEMENT COST for use owners to type in the GUEST CERTIFICATE?



I have kicked in 6 figures for the computer enhancement already.


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## bnoble

> That may be true but for someone who does not want to trade it is taking out inventory that is available to me.


It's no different than those owners booking it for their own use, or to rent, or to provide a direct exchange.  It's just other owners making use of their time.


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## lcml11

am1 said:


> Is the amount of units that CWA owners can arp fixed or is it just a certain amount of points that can be arped at each resort for the year?
> 
> I use ARP with two of my contracts.  With CWA I would use every point with
> ARP.



Use all of your CWA points for ARP if you want.  Picking the resorts that are in CWA but not in the members directory as CWA resorts could have some great finds.  I was amazed with what surfaced at Ocean Walk.


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## lcml11

Any new gossip from the Worldmark side?  

Maybe sales update hype, people cutting grass, or any other source?


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## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Any new gossip from the Worldmark side?
> 
> Maybe sales update hype, people cutting grass, or any other source?



only gossip, and like most of the gossip you post, not worth repeating


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## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> Use all of your CWA points for ARP if you want.  Picking the resorts that are in CWA but not in the members directory as CWA resorts could have some great finds. * I was amazed with what surfaced at Ocean Walk*.



Be amazed in dream land all you want -- post it on the sightings thread to prove your good neighborly ways with your fellow Tuggers. Share ypur amazement!

On wait ... you would have to pay $15 in yearly membership fees ... does that make you a "RE****" Tugger?


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## scootr5

vacationhopeful said:


> Be amazed in dream land all you want -- post it on the sightings thread to prove your good neighborly ways with your fellow Tuggers. Share ypur amazement!
> 
> 
> 
> On wait ... you would have to pay $15 in yearly membership fees ... does that make you a "RE****" Tugger?




It would be at least $30, as he has at least two accounts. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## lcml11

scootr5 said:


> It would be at least $30, as he has at least two accounts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



This attack line is used over time.  I am a member of TUG and have been unable to get the guest to a member label changed on the account that is in a multi-year subscription.


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## scootr5

lcml11 said:


> This attack line is used over time.



It's by no means an "attack". Do you, or do you not have more than one account registered on tug?

I can see no legitimate reason to have more than one account on a bbs forum. Can you provide one that I may be overlooking?


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## Bigrob

vacationhopeful said:


> Be amazed in dream land all you want -- post it on the sightings thread to prove your good neighborly ways with your fellow Tuggers. Share ypur amazement!
> 
> On wait ... you would have to pay $15 in yearly membership fees ... does that make you a "RE****" Tugger?



I actually think he was referring to my post with that comment. Since he usually posts links to prior posts, I'm surprised he didn't this time. I was surprised myself when I called to see what I could get using CWA ARP at Ocean Walk.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1597837#post1597837


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## lcml11

scootr5 said:


> It's by no means an "attack". Do you, or do you not have more than one account registered on tug?
> 
> I can see no legitimate reason to have more than one account on a bbs forum. Can you provide one that I may be overlooking?



Everyone is free to think what they want on that point.


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## ronparise

scootr5 said:


> It's by no means an "attack". Do you, or do you not have more than one account registered on tug?
> 
> I can see no legitimate reason to have more than one account on a bbs forum. Can you provide one that I may be overlooking?



 I have often thought a second account would be helpful, just so I could have someone out there that agrees with me.


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## comicbookman

ronparise said:


> I have often thought a second account would be helpful, just so I could have someone out there that agrees with me.



And there you have the reason he has 2 accounts.  That and to refer back to his own posts.


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## uscav8r

ronparise said:


> I have often thought a second account would be helpful, just so I could have someone out there that agrees with me.




:rofl:

Don't sell yourself short, Ron!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cotraveller

ronparise said:


> I have often thought a second account would be helpful, just so I could have someone out there that agrees with me.



You'd probably do like I often do and end up arguing with yourself!


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## lcml11

http://wmowner.wordpress.com/worldmark-the-club/

Anybody know anything about Club Esprite?

When it's resorts were re-branded as WorldMark the Club, did all resorts go with it?


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## rhonda

lcml11 said:


> http://wmowner.wordpress.com/worldmark-the-club/
> 
> Anybody know anything about Club Esprite?
> 
> When it's resorts were re-branded as WorldMark the Club, did all resorts go with it?



Link to Worldmark the Club timeline starting back in 1989:  https://www.worldmarktheclub.com/anniversary/timeline.shtml

The timeline doesn't mention "Otter Rock," a property along the Oregon Coast.  Club Esprit either owned or had access to only a couple units at this property.  Other than this property, all properties identified on the timeline transitioned into Worldmark the Club in the 1992 rebranding.


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## cotraveller

lcml11 said:


> http://wmowner.wordpress.com/worldmark-the-club/
> 
> Anybody know anything about Club Esprite?
> 
> When it's resorts were re-branded as WorldMark the Club, did all resorts go with it?



When Trendwest first started selling timeshares in 1989 the brand name was Club Esprit.  In 1992 it was rebranded as WorldMark, the Club.  Only the club name was changed, no resorts went anywhere.


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## lcml11

cotraveller said:


> When Trendwest first started selling timeshares in 1989 the brand name was Club Esprit.  In 1992 it was rebranded as WorldMark, the Club.  Only the club name was changed, no resorts went anywhere.



Thanks for the information.


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## allenke

Wow, I think it has been many years since I have posted on Tug.  I used to read it all the time.  I still use Tug faithfully to review resorts before trading through RCI or II.  Nice to see that there is a dedicated Sub category for Worldmark now.

I actually did book a Club Pass Resort through Wyndham for a back up for friends with our upcoming Hawaii trip this coming January.  The cost comes out higher than WM, RCI, II, or TPI.  So, plan on canceling it if the Waitlist through WM or one of the trading exchanges comes through.

A bit of a lame post here, but was just curious to see my post so that I could check out when I joined this forum and how many posts I had done in the past?

Ken


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