# First experience with wyndham



## tarabell (Feb 3, 2009)

And surprise, it's positive!  Received my resale contract validation in the mail today and lo and behold, there are 133,000 points unused from prior year.  Use year is April (308k points) so I figured it might be tough to use these resale "bonus" points up in the span of 6 weeks.  I log on to the website and register and begin the process of point depletion.  The reservation website is fantastic.  Intuitive and easy to use.  The 2 month availability view is superb.  I think, "If only DVC could do this".  I have a trip planned to Orlando on 2/12 - 2/16 using DVC points.  I couldn't however get the evening of the 15th, so let's see if I can get a 1 bedroom at Wyndham.  Bingo, cyress palms has availability........booked it.  Next, I am back in Orlando on the 28th of February for 3 nights.  Bingo, Bonnet Creek has 2 bedroom available.........booked it.  Now I still have about 46k left, so I deposit it into RCI.  I have 2 years to use it (yes, I know it won't pull the biggies, but it will pull something).  I decide to check on some possibilities for my 308k point allotment for 2009.  At the dates I want to go I have a multitude of options including Hawaii Waikiki Walk (I was surprised) and all of the Florida east coast locations.  Hmmmm, maybe this resale purchase was better than tuggers lead me to believe.  I have read all the negative views here on Wyndham's devaluation of owners benefits and am too much of a newbie to ascertain if they will affect me in the future.  I did buy resale ($2,300 for 308k at grand desert) (I'm aware some have paid even less), but at that cost, I can't see how I am going to dislike the program.  I just got almost 2 weeks out of 133k expiring points, at what I think are nice resorts.  

I am not a Wyndham shill.  I haven't even stayed at one yet.  If the resorts are clean and nice (not expecting Hyatt, HGVC or DVC) then I will be very happy indeed.

I know that Orlando has mega availability, so maybe this wasn't a fair test.  To be able to fill in around DVC stays may be worth it on it's own (avoiding higher point time periods at DVC).  I must say however, I was shocked with the resort availability for this year.............and I wasn't looking for Orlando.


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## lawgs (Feb 3, 2009)

tarabell said:


> And surprise, it's positive!  Received my resale contract validation in the mail today and lo and behold, there are 133,000 points unused from prior year.  Use year is April (308k points) so I figured it might be tough to use these resale "bonus" points up in the span of 6 weeks.  I log on to the website and register and begin the process of point depletion.  The reservation website is fantastic.  Intuitive and easy to use.  The 2 month availability view is superb.  I think, "If only DVC could do this".  I have a trip planned to Orlando on 2/12 - 2/16 using DVC points.  I couldn't however get the evening of the 15th, so let's see if I can get a 1 bedroom at Wyndham.  Bingo, cyress palms has availability........booked it.  Next, I am back in Orlando on the 28th of February for 3 nights.  Bingo, Bonnet Creek has 2 bedroom available.........booked it.  Now I still have about 46k left, so I deposit it into RCI.  I have 2 years to use it (yes, I know it won't pull the biggies, but it will pull something).  I decide to check on some possibilities for my 308k point allotment for 2009.  At the dates I want to go I have a multitude of options including Hawaii Waikiki Walk (I was surprised) and all of the Florida east coast locations.  Hmmmm, maybe this resale purchase was better than tuggers lead me to believe.  I have read all the negative views here on Wyndham's devaluation of owners benefits and am too much of a newbie to ascertain if they will affect me in the future.  I did buy resale ($2,300 for 308k at grand desert) (I'm aware some have paid even less), but at that cost, I can't see how I am going to dislike the program.  I just got almost 2 weeks out of 133k expiring points, at what I think are nice resorts.
> 
> I am not a Wyndham shill.  I haven't even stayed at one yet.  If the resorts are clean and nice (not expecting Hyatt, HGVC or DVC) then I will be very happy indeed.
> 
> I know that Orlando has mega availability, so maybe this wasn't a fair test.  To be able to fill in around DVC stays may be worth it on it's own (avoiding higher point time periods at DVC).  I must say however, I was shocked with the resort availability for this year.............and I wasn't looking for Orlando.



how long did it take for Wyndham to recognize you as the new owner?

Have heard they are notoriously slow in transfer process with resales...


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 4, 2009)

Love the resorts and the availabity.  The staff at the resorts-- excellent, too.  Most of the Wyndham people that answer the phone are very nice.

The sales staff are pushy and lie way too much.

Transaction fees have increased, some by 80%. We cannot transfer points to another owner as of 3/1.  Guest certificates went up from $25 to $99 just a few months ago.  We were told by the sales staff in July of 2008 that we would have unlimited guest certificates for free with a Platinum purchase.


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## tarabell (Feb 4, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> Love the resorts and the availabity.  The staff at the resorts-- excellent, too.  Most of the Wyndham people that answer the phone are very nice.
> 
> The sales staff are pushy and lie way too much.
> 
> Transaction fees have increased, some by 80%. We cannot transfer points to another owner as of 3/1.  Guest certificates went up from $25 to $99 just a few months ago.  We were told by the sales staff in July of 2008 that we would have unlimited guest certificates for free with a Platinum purchase.



RickandCindy:

I plan to stay completely away from the sale folks.  I'm aware of the no transfer rule, but really believe it won't affect me much and only plan to use guest certificates once in a blue moon.  Sounds like you are happy with the primary features I am interested in.  Resorts and availability.  Hope my experience in those area's are positive.


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## tarabell (Feb 4, 2009)

lawgs said:


> how long did it take for Wyndham to recognize you as the new owner?
> 
> Have heard they are notoriously slow in transfer process with resales...



10 Weeks from ebay bid until I was in the system.  The closing agent had the deed recorded within 2-3 days of receiving my funds (this was about 2-3 weeks into the process).  I'm sure this helped the process along more quickly than others have seen.


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## Charlie D. (Feb 4, 2009)

Congratulations on the purchase.  There are many of us on this forum that enjoy our Wyndham timeshare.  You should have enough points to be able to have some great vacations.

Charlie D.


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## bookworm (Feb 4, 2009)

With Wyndham it always seems as if we are waiting for the next shoe to drop regarding changes that affect us negatively. Yet, there is much to still be said for the resorts, the staff we meet there, the flexibility of making and canceling reservations and seeing availability online. Short stays and 28K RCI deposits. FSP fee which is less than exchange fees that would be required for multiple stays in RCI. Wyndham still has many good things going for it. But I think the negative tone has to do, in part, with the reality that almost every change made recently has been negative. We just don't know what will happen next. For now, we love using our points and are happy to own them. If I was just starting out, I would definitely still buy resale - especially at current prices.


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## akfoss (Feb 4, 2009)

*Wyndham is for the Personal Owner*

Tarabell,

Your situation sounds similar to mine.  I own 210,000 points, also at Grand Desert.  For individuals that want to use the core parts of the Wyndham program, they can be very good.  Resorts are generally very nice, especially the newer ones.  Point costs are reasonable, except for Presidential Suites and the newest of resorts.  RCI deposits are "cheap" compared to depositing comparable units from outside Wyndham.  Yes, RCI tends to give back primarily Wyndham properties, but if you are flexible, that can work to your advantage.  

In my opinion, much of the negative tone regarding Wyndham is from owners that were promised something and had it taken away, or were using Wyndham as a means to get rental income.  Once a person gets past the initial program fee, the cost of incremental points at resale can be more than offset by the rental revenue, especially at lower MF Resorts like Grand Desert.  

Enjoy your new Timesharing adventures!  

Allan


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## tarabell (Feb 4, 2009)

akfoss said:


> Tarabell,
> 
> Your situation sounds similar to mine.  I own 210,000 points, also at Grand Desert.  For individuals that want to use the core parts of the Wyndham program, they can be very good.  Resorts are generally very nice, especially the newer ones.  Point costs are reasonable, except for Presidential Suites and the newest of resorts.  RCI deposits are "cheap" compared to depositing comparable units from outside Wyndham.  Yes, RCI tends to give back primarily Wyndham properties, but if you are flexible, that can work to your advantage.
> 
> ...



It does seem as if a lot of the vitriol is from folks who rent their points. I have read all of the debates on TUG whether they take prime inventory or short dated inventory.  I'm not sure what is correct, but have seen plenty of prime weeks on EBAY.  In any regard, they have all the time to "play" the system much better than normal owners.  I'm pretty cerrtain that I don't want to compete with them for access to prime weeks.  I agree with many that Wyndham probably went overboard with the zero transfer policy and could have accomplished better PR by limiting transfers (like DVC). If at the end of the day this move by Wyndham supports timeshare users at the expense of renters, then I am all for it. If it doesn't accomplish that goal than I am ambivalent.  I know many say that Wyndham's changes have hurt the value of the product from a resale perspective.  I agree, but think Mega-renters have as well. Just look at the price of rental weeks on EBAY.  How does this support current owners?  I know many will argue that Extra Vacations causes the same problem.  Can't say I disagree, except that the weeks appear to be marketed at a higher price.  If it's true that this money isn't finding it's way into the trust, then I would consider that criminal.  If only MF's come back into the trust, then it is the same as the commercial renters.  Owners are not harmed in any way. I know the only money coming from the Mega Renters back to owners is the MF's on the property.  If they have been profitable, then their rental income by definition has to exceed the MF's they pay. I think they put all owners at a disadvantage and provide non owners all the benefits without ownership. If non owners were paying more than a standard owner, then so be it.  In many cases they are paying less and taking no risk. In closing, Wyndham could have supported owners that use their timeshare by limiting transfers, annual rentals, and number of guest certificates issued. That is what they should have done.  I haven't read the full documentation, but I would assume Wyndham, like most others, had a "not for commercial purposes" clause in their contracts.  If they did, then they are entitled to take action to prevent commercial purposes at any point they choose to do so.  If they didn't, I completely change my position and fully support commercial renters.

To the owners that use their timeshares, I agree with the point regarding Wyndhams changes. I find it problematic as an owner. Hopefully, they will realize they went too far and institute a more reasonable policy that supports the majority of owners that bought to use.


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## moonlightgraham (Feb 4, 2009)

Tarabell,
Similar experience here. I have 152k points purchased about five years ago (via ebay) and have already had several great trips including Hawaii and several to Bonnet Creek. As a new DVC points owner I shake my head in disbelief that they don't have a similar online booking system. Wyndham has improved their's over the years and it is a pleasure to use. I'm hoping as the portfolio of DVC properties grows they will be forced to adopt a similar system.


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## akfoss (Feb 5, 2009)

*Availability of Rental Properties*

Tarabell,

One comment I would make regarding your latest post is to carefully review rental ads to be sure the person actually has a unit to rent.  I have rented a couple units for my wife to attend conferences in recent years from mega-renters on the Wyndham Yahoo Group site.  In each case, the renter needed to confirm availability and how many points the unit would cost, then they set a final price with me for the rental.  I know in at least two cases, the person used VIP to get the units at very discounted point values.  My point is that if I say I have a beach front unit in January in New Jersey, are you as interested as if I say I have one in Myrtle Beach in July?  Probably not, but just like fishing, once I get you nibbling, I can probably find some way to hook you and rent a unit that meets your needs for a good price.

Allan


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## photosmike (Feb 5, 2009)

Wyndham does not have any words that prevent any owner renting points or reserved units, but they eliminated ) March1) the mechanism to transfer points that were sold to other owners.  With the increased guest fee thay have raised the cost to rent units.

In the past their sales people encouraged us to buy points to use for rental income.  That was central to the "free vacation" lie/strategy (buy more than you need, rent the excess points/units to cover all mf) used to sell points.  I believe this strategy is still being used today.


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## pianodinosaur (Feb 5, 2009)

We have traded into Wyndham resorts with RCI and had a great time.  You may wish to consider Steamboat Springs.  It is really nice both in the summer and the winter.


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## chellej (Feb 5, 2009)

*Finally was able to register on line*

I bought El Cid points last spring - It took until November to transfer but I was prepared for that.  It took from November 30th until today to be able to register online (I hadn't submitted my SSN with the transfer and El Cid had to have that to get me set up on line)

Anyways, now that I am looking at my account I have a question.  It shows 24 housekeeping credits in the the credit pool good through feb 8 2010.  What are these and how do I use them?

( I also have 11000 pts good though June 30, 2009 and 25 housekeeping credits)

The account had 81000 pts good through June 30 & I made 2 depsoits to RCI - a 28000 and a 42000. I assume these deplete the housekeeping credits too? (I started with 81)  I am a tad bit confused.


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## sevenvii (Feb 5, 2009)

Its good to hear some positive experience with Wyndham, that is the system we had planned to buy some resale in.  

Did you buy Grand Desert simply because of the low MF's?  I have been doing some comparing of the ones closest to me (colorado) and have recently found that Pagosa seems to be lower(according to the Ebay description) then both Steamboat, and Grand Desert.  I would imagine the 13 month early booking to our home resort wouldn't be used all that much.  If we did decide to goto pagosa we would probably wait around and get it on the 8 week discounted period, since it wouldnt take much time or planning to go there for a quick trip.


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## rickandcindy23 (Feb 5, 2009)

How would you get a discount at 8 weeks?  Are you going to buy from the developer? Because those VIP benefits do not get transferred to the resale buyer.  Pay $20K or more, and you can get the VIP benefits.  

This is just one way that Wyndham devalued the ownerships.  You used to be able to get VIP benefits transferred in a resale.


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## tarabell (Feb 5, 2009)

sevenvii said:


> Its good to hear some positive experience with Wyndham, that is the system we had planned to buy some resale in.
> 
> Did you buy Grand Desert simply because of the low MF's?  I have been doing some comparing of the ones closest to me (colorado) and have recently found that Pagosa seems to be lower(according to the Ebay description) then both Steamboat, and Grand Desert.  I would imagine the 13 month early booking to our home resort wouldn't be used all that much.  If we did decide to goto pagosa we would probably wait around and get it on the 8 week discounted period, since it wouldnt take much time or planning to go there for a quick trip.



Yes, I bought there due to the low MF's and the fact that it was one of the newer resorts.  Probably would have bought at Bonnet Creek, but I already own at Disney.  I will rarely stay in Vegas, but have complete flexibility in my vacation schedule.  The fact that I could go in offseason led me to purchase the lower MF's rather than someplace I might travel more frequently.  What surprised me, is just how many options I had at this short of notice.  I could find several nice places to go right in the middle of spring break weeks (not Myrtle Beach, but some of the Florda beach places still had rooms).


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## tarabell (Feb 5, 2009)

photosmike said:


> Wyndham does not have any words that prevent any owner renting points or reserved units, but they eliminated ) March1) the mechanism to transfer points that were sold to other owners.  With the increased guest fee thay have raised the cost to rent units.
> 
> In the past their sales people encouraged us to buy points to use for rental income.  That was central to the "free vacation" lie/strategy (buy more than you need, rent the excess points/units to cover all mf) used to sell points.  I believe this strategy is still being used today.



This information does force me to alter my viewpoint.  I believe that mega renters shouldn't be allowed to rent and own in bulk, as I still think it harms normal owners.  Wyndham should have taken care of this upfront.  Since they didn't specify it legally, they should go out of their way to work something out with the rneters.

 I stand corrrected.


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## tarabell (Feb 5, 2009)

akfoss said:


> Tarabell,
> 
> One comment I would make regarding your latest post is to carefully review rental ads to be sure the person actually has a unit to rent.  I have rented a couple units for my wife to attend conferences in recent years from mega-renters on the Wyndham Yahoo Group site.  In each case, the renter needed to confirm availability and how many points the unit would cost, then they set a final price with me for the rental.  I know in at least two cases, the person used VIP to get the units at very discounted point values.  *My point is that if I say I have a beach front unit in January in New Jersey, are you as interested as if I say I have one in Myrtle Beach in July?  Probably not, but just like fishing, once I get you nibbling, I can probably find some way to hook you and rent a unit that meets your needs for a good price.*
> Allan




Allan:

I understand your point and maybe you are right.  I must say however, you will never get me to rent that Jersey Beach in January!!:rofl:


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## Timeshare Von (Feb 6, 2009)

Clearly owning with Wyndham for me is a love/hate relationship.  But as a general comment, I like what I'm able to do and get from my three Wyndham contracts, including the two fixed weeks.

Most of my distain come from their lying sales staff and the continued changing of the rules that they've become notorious for.  Even though I don't have many points, and 99% of their b/s policy changes do not affect me, I do not like companies who do business the way Wyndham does.  It is simply not customer friendly.

And for a small points package owner, the "no points transfer" policy really does hit me hard as it forces me to use what I have and overpay to rent more points through them to enhance my ownership when necessary to get what I want through the internal FSP system.  So that policy doesn't only hurt the mega owners or those who use their points to subsidize or pay their fees.


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## photosmike (Feb 6, 2009)

tarabell said:


> This information does force me to alter my viewpoint.  I believe that mega renters shouldn't be allowed to rent and own in bulk, as I still think it harms normal owners.  Wyndham should have taken care of this upfront.  Since they didn't specify it legally, they should go out of their way to work something out with the rneters.
> 
> I stand corrrected.



How do you feel about the biggest mega renter (Extra Holidays)?


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## tarabell (Feb 6, 2009)

photosmike said:


> How do you feel about the biggest mega renter (Extra Holidays)?



That would depend on how and where the revenue flows.  If Wyndham pockets the profit, then I as an owner am in the exact same situation, as I am in with the large renters outside of Wyndham.  In that case, I would be ambivalent as to which entity pockets the profit, since the using owners aren't seeing any of it.

If profits (or some portion of them) are paid to the trust by Extra Vacations, then I am in favor of this model.  At least some benefit of renting our assets accumulate to all owners. 

At this point, I haven't been able to ascertain what revenue flows to the trust from Wyndham.  If I remember correctly, Wyndham maintains that the revenue goes to the trust, less some administrative and management fee it takes to run the program.  The devils in the details.  How much do they take?  How much above MF's go to the trust?  Are they charging the trust exorbitant fees?  This information would provide me a more concrete opinion.  What I do know, is the only folks benefiting from renting out our collective asset in the other scenario, is the mega renters.  Using owners see no benefits (yes, I know renters pay MF's). I have read all of the arguments for how the mega renters benefit the other owners and remain firmly unconvinced.  The basic tenant is that they ar paying MF's on weeks that nobody else would buy.  Hogwash, this isn't a fixed week program. Since this isn't a fixed week program, a case could be made that they are renting out OUR weeks, not their weeks.  They only have the right to request those weeks, they don't own them. If they are prime weeks, then the only value they added was to get to a phone faster than other OWNERS.  I want those weeks to go to owners, not someone on EBAY that doesn't own.  

If this was a fixed week program, I would not feel the same way.  In that scenario, you paid for a specific week and none else has any right to it.  You should be able to do whatever you want with it.....................period.  Unfortunately, this isn't that program. 

As I stated previously, I do not think that it is in the benefit of the majority of owners to have folks renting out weeks (not the occasional rental but the ongoing rental of weeks).  Wyndham however, did these people a major disservice by encouraging, or at the very least ignoring the issue. Wyndham should step up and find a way out for those that they led down the path.  They should also be very clear on exactly how cash flows into the trust from Extra Vacations. If it isn't already the case, the owners should be able to hire an outside audit firm to look inot these transactions. Lack of transparency is always cause for concern.


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## vacationhopeful (Feb 6, 2009)

I believe there has been other threads and posts which have dealt with the rental income which has been returned to Wyndham Fixed Week owners when they have assigned their FIXED Week to Extra Vacations - instead of renting the week themselves.  I know I have gotten multiple written requests from Extra Vacations to assign my deed Fixed weeks - to allow them to act as my broker agent.

Let the experienced owners enlighten you as to the commissions and costs (under the guise of normal and customary costs) which is charged against the rental income receive.  It starts with a realtor commission of 40%, adds a housekeeping fee, costs/commissions paid to 3rd party advertisers and providers (Hotwire, Expedia, Priceline), and payment processing fees (paypal, credit card costs, etc).  There is no floor on price per night and no promise of even 1 night of rental being obtained.  However, the owner has assigned their right to use their 7 night timeshare to Extra Vacations for that use year.

If there are experienced TUG Members who have used Extra Vacations, please post a percentage figure.     Check Received / Maintenance Fee Paid.  And the year this transaction occurred.

For Example:  $125/250 =>  50% in year 1990    Example ONLY.


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## tarabell (Feb 6, 2009)

vacationhopeful said:


> I believe there has been other threads and posts which have dealt with the rental income which has been returned to Wyndham Fixed Week owners when they have assigned their FIXED Week to Extra Vacations - instead of renting the week themselves.  I know I have gotten multiple written requests from Extra Vacations to assign my deed Fixed weeks - to allow them to act as my broker agent.
> 
> Let the experienced owners enlighten you as to the commissions and costs (under the guise of normal and customary costs) which is charged against the rental income receive.  It starts with a realtor commission of 40%, adds a housekeeping fee, costs/commissions paid to 3rd party advertisers and providers (Hotwire, Expedia, Priceline), and payment processing fees (paypal, credit card costs, etc).  There is no floor on price per night and no promise of even 1 night of rental being obtained.  However, the owner has assigned their right to use their 7 night timeshare to Extra Vacations for that use year.
> 
> ...




Ain't talking bout fixed weeks.  You own it.  Do what you want.  I have nothing to say about it. I think you should rent it yourself.  

If the trust receives more than the MF's in the FSP system, then using owners are ahead.  Doesn't mean they shouldn't get more. My point is for the FSP weeks, not fixed weeks.  I view these as two completley different worlds. 

If Extra Vacations delivers less to the owners (not the owner needing to rent their week) than MF's, then I am with you 100%.  I don't have the facts to determine this.  Conceptually, I am for an overlay organization vs mega renters.  This org would return MF's to all renting owners and any profits above expenses to all owners.  They wouldn't charge exorbitant fees, but would need to operate at least at breakeven. Poor management, exorbitant fees, lack of transparency, etc are management issues, not conceptual issues.  If Wyndham is abusing this  (and it appears they might be), my solution wouldn't involve individual renters.  It would involve renting through the trust structure where owners would have control, transparency, and external auditing.  I am not for Wyndham per se, I am for a centralized structure that looks out for the benefits of all owners.  That probably isn't Extra Vacations, and it isn't mega renters either.  If forced to choose one, I choose the one that might have a possibility, no matter how small, of delivering more than MF's back to owners


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 6, 2009)

I am pretty sure when I sit through the owner representation and they told me I can rent it out to cover my cost, a few owner will never realize if they do renting, some owners will think it should be restricted.  Or Wyndham will start with believing it should be restricted.

Most VIP program are gear toward attract people to buy more points than they can use themselves.

On the other hand, I believe if I rent out, I should be doing whatever the system allows me to get.  And if I rent in, I certainly expect the best from the host can provide.   I believe if I try to exchange out, I will believe I should be able to get any week I want.  And if I exchange in, I should be able to get any good unit than owner can get.  And if I give it to my family, they should have priority over other owners, and if I use it myself, I certainly should trump all.  Wait, actually, renting exchange are all using it myself. 

If there is an issue, Wyndham as operation company should first announce the issue, than publish the data to support it.  I don't believe last year VOA meeting has no mention it, than simple slip a word that something will be taken out, than try to come up some issue list when push come up.

If you think there should have a way to allow trust benefit from it, try to set up a way, not try to forbidden it.

As it stand out, as a resell buyer, if you try to buy more resell, you stand for the most to loss if the new non-transfer way get forced.

Jya-Ning


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## akfoss (Feb 6, 2009)

*Extra Vacations*

Tarabell,

I think Extra Vacations may be the type of umbrella organization that you describe, with one very big caveat.  Since Wyndham is a for-profit corporation that is publicly traded, they have an incessant need to generate revenue and profits.  Extra Vacations, and the (exorbitant) fees that they charge owners to market units, help them feed this appetite.  Similarly, many of the other changes, particularly increased transaction and guest certificate fees, also help feed this appetite.  I have seen comments from some that claim Wyndham is greedy, specifically management.  I agree with Yvonne that I do not appreciate their underhanded sales tactics or some of their business tactics, but I also recognize that it is the stock marketplace and expectations of stock holders that probably drive much of the need for revenue and profits.  So, back to you point, as long as you include a cut for stock holders, then I think Wyndham Extra Vacations is a centralized service that benefits owners wanting to rent.  

Allan


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## Sean Austin (Feb 7, 2009)

*Wyndham Resorts*

You got a great deal and you will like the resorts as well. The only thing that you need to watch out for is their marketing and sales staff. They will attempt, very aggressively to get you to come in for an owners update, especially because you are new to Wyndham. This is where I made the majority of my sales revenue. You must be prepared for some very sophisticated sales tactics. 

_ads not permitted on this forum_


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## randyz (Feb 12, 2009)

tarabell said:


> This information does force me to alter my viewpoint.  I believe that mega renters shouldn't be allowed to rent and own in bulk, as I still think it harms normal owners.  Wyndham should have taken care of this upfront.  Since they didn't specify it legally, they should go out of their way to work something out with the rneters.
> 
> I stand corrrected.



Tarabell, 

I liked your original post as it points to why I (and many others I am sure) like our Wyndham points. Really nice to see something positive posted after all the virtriol lately. Thanks to resale I now own 700k points. I have no intention of renting, and I really like the availability etc. that you pointed out. 

Last Sept (off season) my son went to Orlando and Daytona for 16 days. With VIP 30 day upgrades and discounts this cost him only 200,000 points for a 2 bedroom. Hard to beat that deal.

I will be interested in hearing how Bonnet Creek and Grand Desert compare to DVC etc..

I have also concluded that most of the anti-Wyndham noise, even if justified, is from mega renters etc.. Though the new rules will hardly affect me two things concern me:
1. Controlling mega renters will help my VIP access which is personally good. However, Extra Holidays probably affects me too, and I have no way of knowing if Wyn is ripping me off there.
2. The removal of points transfer will occassionally hurt. I recently arranged 5 rooms for next month in Kona for a family reunion. To do this I rented 150K points from another owner. I hope they reinstate limited point transfers.

Once again, glad to see someone replicate my first experience of 4 years ago. On my first call I found out I could get 1 week in Kona on Dec 26th. That shocked me at the time.

Randy


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## Miss V (Feb 12, 2009)

tarabell said:


> As I stated previously, I do not think that it is in the benefit of the majority of owners to have folks renting out weeks (not the occasional rental but the ongoing rental of weeks).  Wyndham however, did these people a major disservice by encouraging, or at the very least ignoring the issue. Wyndham should step up and find a way out for those that they led down the path.  They should also be very clear on exactly how cash flows into the trust from Extra Vacations. If it isn't already the case, the owners should be able to hire an outside audit firm to look inot these transactions. Lack of transparency is always cause for concern.



But, I think with the new system that Wyndham enacted, of not allowing the transfer of points between owners, will actually force more owners to start renting... owners who may not be interested in renting, but they have nothing else to do with expiring points. Either rent, or basically give them away for nothing to Wyndham. And, for a lot of new renters, what weeks do you think they will go in and pull at their 13 month ARP??? The best weeks. More and more of the best weeks will start to get rented out to make sure the owners will also be able to cover the high cost of the Guest Certificates. This new rule just hurts owners... does not help them. There are plenty of other restrictions that Wyndham could have, should have put in place instead of completely stopping the transfer of points between owners.


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## jdb0822 (Feb 12, 2009)

randyz said:


> Tarabell,
> 
> I liked your original post as it points to why I (and many others I am sure) like our Wyndham points. Really nice to see something positive posted after all the virtriol lately. Thanks to resale I now own 700k points. I have no intention of renting, and I really like the availability etc. that you pointed out.
> 
> ...




VIP benefits are nothing to count on, they change like the seasons.


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## sevenvii (Feb 12, 2009)

rickandcindy23 said:


> How would you get a discount at 8 weeks?  Are you going to buy from the developer? Because those VIP benefits do not get transferred to the resale buyer.  Pay $20K or more, and you can get the VIP benefits.
> 
> This is just one way that Wyndham devalued the ownerships.  You used to be able to get VIP benefits transferred in a resale.



Ahh, I thought I have read somehwere that even with resale you can still sign up to be on the list to get discounted stays for those units they havent rented out yet.  Is this only a perk for retail vip owners?


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## bm408 (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi, I was just curious which ebay seller you went through - 10 weeks sounds impressive. We have DVC also - AKV and BLT


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## Jya-Ning (Feb 15, 2009)

sevenvii said:


> Ahh, I thought I have read somehwere that even with resale you can still sign up to be on the list to get discounted stays for those units they havent rented out yet.  Is this only a perk for retail vip owners?



From time to time, at the main page, it will list resorts that has excess inventories, and give certain discount.  Every member can use it.  Like Winter at RI, Summer at Orlando (not including BC).  But it is upto them to decide if they want to give out discount, where and when.  VIP is guarantee if the inventory is there.

Jya-Ning


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## sevenvii (Feb 15, 2009)

Ok, thanks for the clarification.


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## tarabell (Feb 16, 2009)

bm408 said:


> Hi, I was just curious which ebay seller you went through - 10 weeks sounds impressive. We have DVC also - AKV and BLT




I bought it on ebay from Laman34.  He uses Timeshare clsoing services out of Orlando (they close quite a few dvc contracts as well).  They have an electronic deed process with Grand Desert that speeds things up. Pretty much went without a hitch, except for transferring the RCI account number over.  That is in process now.


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## tarabell (Feb 16, 2009)

Miss V said:


> But, I think with the new system that Wyndham enacted, of not allowing the transfer of points between owners, will actually force more owners to start renting... owners who may not be interested in renting, but they have nothing else to do with expiring points. Either rent, or basically give them away for nothing to Wyndham. And, for a lot of new renters, what weeks do you think they will go in and pull at their 13 month ARP??? The best weeks. More and more of the best weeks will start to get rented out to make sure the owners will also be able to cover the high cost of the Guest Certificates. This new rule just hurts owners... does not help them. There are plenty of other restrictions that Wyndham could have, should have put in place instead of completely stopping the transfer of points between owners.



Miss V:

I agree that Wyndham could have implemented policies that were more favorable to the majority of owners.  Allowing transfers, but limiting them certainly makes a great deal of sense.


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## bm408 (Feb 16, 2009)

tarabell said:


> I bought it on ebay from Laman34.  He uses Timeshare clsoing services out of Orlando (they close quite a few dvc contracts as well).  They have an electronic deed process with Grand Desert that speeds things up. Pretty much went without a hitch, except for transferring the RCI account number over.  That is in process now.



Thanks! It just makes me nervous doing a "real estate" transaction on ebay!! I am soooo glad to hear you had a positive experience. I think Wyndham will be a great complement to DVC also.


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## jhoug (Feb 16, 2009)

Bought resale from the same ebayer too.  They were great to work with. 
Just a note.  If you already had points bought from Wyndham (or Worldmark by Wyndham too) the resale points don't count toward VIP membership or Travelshare benefits (they made those programs to exclude resalers) but if you are using to exchange within the Wyndham system, the other points work just the same.


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## viggyvig (Feb 23, 2009)

Can I ask what the maintenance fee is? Are the maintenance fees pretty standard with the point system?


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## kalua (Feb 23, 2009)

*setting up rci acct.*



tarabell said:


> I bought it on ebay from Laman34.  He uses Timeshare clsoing services out of Orlando (they close quite a few dvc contracts as well).  They have an electronic deed process with Grand Desert that speeds things up. Pretty much went without a hitch, except for transferring the RCI account number over.  That is in process now.



sorry for butting in ,I have 5 contract's from rhis company they all closed in about 10 week's, 1 from another company closed in 28 day's,now to my real point , which is that when wyndham set up my acct. with rci they transfered the acct. number of one of the previous owners,I deposited 2 week's that never showed up they had set that acct. up w/ transfer of old owner's name. I had a terrible time tring to get them to straighten it out, it took about 10 calls,20 vc,and finally 1 intelligent person to listen to me to get it straight. just for info ! 

Joe


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## tarabell (Feb 23, 2009)

kalua said:


> sorry for butting in ,I have 5 contract's from rhis company they all closed in about 10 week's, 1 from another company closed in 28 day's,now to my real point , which is that when wyndham set up my acct. with rci they transfered the acct. number of one of the previous owners,I deposited 2 week's that never showed up they had set that acct. up w/ transfer of old owner's name. I had a terrible time tring to get them to straighten it out, it took about 10 calls,20 vc,and finally 1 intelligent person to listen to me to get it straight. just for info !
> 
> Joe




Had exact same problem.  Must have got lucky as I only needed to make two calls to Wyndham.  RCI had my number about 2 weeks after I discovered the issue.  Sounds like all resale purchasers better check what name is on the RCI account.


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## TSResalez (Feb 24, 2009)

tarabell said:


> 10 Weeks from ebay bid until I was in the system.  The closing agent had the deed recorded within 2-3 days of receiving my funds (this was about 2-3 weeks into the process).  I'm sure this helped the process along more quickly than others have seen.



wow, seems like 4ever!


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