# Per broker Michelle Donato - Marriott exercising ROFR on Platinum Units?



## infamazz (Jul 4, 2011)

I recently contacted broker Michelle Donato about purchasing a resale Marriott Aruba Surf or Ocean Club Platinum season unit. She responded to my initial offer that anything less than $11,000 for 1 BR and $18,000 for 2BR were being taken by Marriott using ROFR. 

Now, I completely understand that this is largely a negotiating tactic, and I'm somewhat sure Marriott has not recently increased its ROFR activity, but can anyone confirm that Marriott has not, in fact, increased its buybacks of Platinum weeks? I will go nowhere near those prices she mentioned anyway, but I just want to double-check to make sure that what she is saying isn't at all true. 

Is there anyone in the know have some insight into her claims? Also, has anyone heard about Michelle Donato and whether she is a worthwhile agent to deal with?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## dioxide45 (Jul 4, 2011)

I would just politely indicate that you weren't born yesterday. They aren't exercising, except for some super prime weeks. Don't fall for it, it is as you indicated, a way to try to extract more money from the sale. As the broker she works for the seller. If the price is too high, just find another week to buy, there are plenty out there. I wouldn't bother to deal with this broker any longer.


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## jimf41 (Jul 4, 2011)

I made an offer a year or so on a 2bdrm at MFC. If you make an offer the agent is required to present that offer. I think she wanted 22k and I offered 17k. This took place via Email on a Sunday evening. Within two minutes of sending the offer she replied with a negative. I emailed her back and asked how she could get a response back from her client so fast. 

I don't think Michelle Donato is the type of broker I would recommend to anyone. Just my opinion though.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 5, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I would just politely indicate that you weren't born yesterday. They aren't exercising, except for some super prime weeks.


I am not so sure.  They have recently made offers to a number of owners to buy their units, and at a pretty good price.  It would seem logical that they would also be stepping up their ROFR activity.  Time will tell, I guess.


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## floyddl (Jul 5, 2011)

jimf41 said:


> I made an offer a year or so on a 2bdrm at MFC. If you make an offer the agent is required to present that offer. I think she wanted 22k and I offered 17k. This took place via Email on a Sunday evening. Within two minutes of sending the offer she replied with a negative. I emailed her back and asked how she could get a response back from her client so fast.
> 
> I don't think Michelle Donato is the type of broker I would recommend to anyone. Just my opinion though.



I am sure she has a deal to sell the unit for a minimum price point and she didn't need to ask.  But her comments about ROFRs sounds shadey.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jul 5, 2011)

Comments in the past have suggested that Michelle Donatto has not provided buyers/sellers with accurate information. Could that mean distortions of the truth? lies? dieshonesty? Amongst timeshare salespeople, no way!

I'd suggest that you send Michelle a letter, inquiring further about statements and representations that she made, and COPY that letter to:

Michael Cochran, Director
Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes
State of Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulations
1940 North Monroe Street 
Tallahassee, FL 32399
Phone: 850.488.1122
Fax: 850.921.5446

How long do you think it will take for Michelle to say that you "must have misunderstood."


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## dioxide45 (Jul 5, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> I am not so sure.  They have recently made offers to a number of owners to buy their units, and at a pretty good price.  It would seem logical that they would also be stepping up their ROFR activity.  Time will tell, I guess.



I am not sure why it would seem logical that they would be stepping up ROFR activity. Have you seen the glut of inventory in the trust? Yes, they have bought back some weeks from people on their resale waiting list, that seems to have been a targeted. The trust gets access to 25% of all weeks through MRP trades without it even owning anything. 

In the end, the mention from a broker about ROFR, is the same as that from a Marriott sale person. It is a fabrication to get you to pay more for something than it is really worth. Are you suggesting the OP buy the week for the price mentioned because of the brokers comments? I would hope not.


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## gblotter (Jul 5, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> Have you seen the glut of inventory in the trust?


I keep looking for this list of Trust inventory.  Where can I find it?


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## SueDonJ (Jul 5, 2011)

gblotter said:


> I keep looking for this list of Trust inventory.  Where can I find it?



Here's the ongoing thread; looks like Post #124 has the latest breakdown (as of April, 2011.)


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## MOXJO7282 (Jul 5, 2011)

I will  say this, if/when Marriott does start RORFing, Aruba Surf plat weeks will be one of the first it starts with because it is in very high demand still.

I've never dealt with Michele but she called me unsolicited about my Aruba 
Surf to see if I was interested in selling for about $13k if I'm not mistaken.


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## larryallen (Jul 5, 2011)

I would just tell her you are willing to take a "chance" on Marriott exercising ROFR. If they do fine. It's not a big deal. You buy a different one. It's not like there aren't a TON of weeks for sale out there! Odds are they won't exercise ROFR and you get the unit.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 5, 2011)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I will  say this, if/when Marriott does start RORFing, Aruba Surf plat weeks will be one of the first it starts with because it is in very high demand still.
> 
> I've never dealt with Michele but she called me unsolicited about my Aruba
> Surf to see if I was interested in selling for about $13k if I'm not mistaken.



I think the days of Marriott ROFR'ing Weeks resales on at least a semi-regular basis are over simply because the introduction of the DC changes their entire product.  I do think it's possible that years down the road they may use ROFR more frequently to re-stock the DC Trust with selective Weeks, but that's only if the overall economy improves to the point where many people once again have discretionary income that they can afford to play with in the timeshare market.  If/when that happens, I wouldn't expect the Aruba properties to be on that selective list unless their valuations in the DC are increased - right now the Points allotted to enrolled/converted Aruba Weeks are among the lowest in the entire MVCI portfolio.

All that said, like BocaBoy has said repeatedly on TUG, Marriott Resales is now fishing for very specific properties, and Marriott is ROFR'ing specific resales on a very infrequent basis.  Since the DC intro, though, there haven't been enough reports on TUG for us to make an educated guess as to which properties/Weeks Marriott considers valuable today.

OP, in your shoes I would ask the broker for proof of the claims she's making.  If she's been involved with resales that were ROFR'ed then she should be able to back up her claims.  But even if she has proof, there's nothing to stop you from making whatever offer you want on any of her listings.  If she has instructions from the seller that s/he's not willing to entertain anything less than $X and doesn't want to be bothered with hearing about any of those offers, then you might get the same quick "no" answer that Jimf got.  (I know if I was selling, that's a tactic I'd use at the outset to test the market.)  But you could get lucky, too, if Michelle has orders from other sellers to bring any and all offers to their attention.

Are you aware of the Listings section on the arubaoceanclub.com associations' website?  There are Ocean Club and Surf Club listings along with some info on Marriott Resales and ROFR.  I don't know how the prices line up with other private resales sites but it may be worth a look ...


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## ml855 (Jul 5, 2011)

Same thing happen to me, I placed an offer for a platnium OceanWatch Villa through Michelle and got the same response.  She made a point to let me know that no one will accept an offer that low, and my offer wasn't much lower then the regular price.  From that point I decided I'll never purchase from Michelle.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jul 5, 2011)

ml855 said:


> Same thing happen to me, I placed an offer for a platnium OceanWatch Villa through Michelle and got the same response.  She made a point to let me know that no one will accept an offer that low, and my offer wasn't much lower then the regular price.  From that point I decided I'll never purchase from Michelle.



Is a trend of Michelle's alleged deceptions beginning to be established on TUG?

I suspect Mr. Cochran would like to learn of your experience as a potential timeshare purchaser/seller of Michelle's: 

Michael Cochran, Director
Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes
State of Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulations
1940 North Monroe Street 
Tallahassee, FL 32399
Phone: 850.488.1122
Fax: 850.921.5446

I've complained to the Federal Trade Commission about Michelle's cold calls and violations of the Federal Do Not Call list, to no avail.


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## SpikeMauler (Jul 5, 2011)

I negotiated with Michelle a few years ago when I was looking to purchase a MFC resale week. The original asking price was $24,000. I negotiated the price down to $17,000 but she couldn't match a $15,000 offer I had from another broker. That being said I  liked her and told her I wished she would have been able to match that price. She seemed very nice and easy to do business with. She never fed me any B.S. and seemed honest. Then again, what do you really know about anybody from a few phone calls...


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## hotcoffee (Jul 5, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure why it would seem logical that they would be stepping up ROFR activity. Have you seen the glut of inventory in the trust? Yes, they have bought back some weeks from people on their resale waiting list, that seems to have been a targeted. The trust gets access to 25% of all weeks through MRP trades without it even owning anything.



I have no idea whether they are doing any more ROFRs than in the past, but I would think that if they were to step them up, they might do so for the Aruba resorts since they apparently still cannot be put into the Trust.

Also, I do not understand your comment about the 25% of MRP weeks in the Trust.  The Trust is "owned" by Trust owners.  MRP trades could be either legacy or Trust weeks.  Why would you say that the Trust gets 25% of its inventory from MRP?


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## m61376 (Jul 5, 2011)

hotcoffee said:


> I have no idea whether they are doing any more ROFRs than in the past, but I would think that if they were to step them up, they might do so for the Aruba resorts since they apparently still cannot be put into the Trust.
> 
> Also, I do not understand your comment about the 25% of MRP weeks in the Trust.  The Trust is "owned" by Trust owners.  MRP trades could be either legacy or Trust weeks.  Why would you say that the Trust gets 25% of its inventory from MRP?



People trading in their weeks for points gives Marriott rights to usage of the week. On the other hand, aren't those Marriott's to do with as they please, fueling its rental inventory.

Sue- Actually, the low point allocation for the Aruba weeks presents an interesting situation. Clearly, Marriott actually values the Aruba weeks amongst the highest when it comes to rental rates; its low valuation only curiously applies to point allocations. Therein lies an interesting situation: there is a low incentive for Aruba owners to trade their week in for points because of the relatively low allocation and the fact that Aruba weeks historically have commanded some of the highest rental rates, with the relatively low point cost for a high demand week that would otherwise cost a lot of money to rent. So owners have a poor incentive to convert their weeks, while exchangers get a good deal when exchanging in for points and, furthermore, when the economy improves and the rental market regains speed, point reservations for Aruba weeks may be even in higher demand because they command high rental rates. Thus, I can see Marriott trying to acquire more weeks there, although I doubt they are ROFR'ing anything with any significant consistency in this market.


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## pfrank4127 (Jul 5, 2011)

Not sure of a trend but in my experience with her she was very difficult to deal with and definetly had a negative attitude towards presenting low offers.  I will not deal with her again.




EducatedConsumer said:


> Is a trend of Michelle's alleged deceptions beginning to be established on TUG?
> 
> I suspect Mr. Cochran would like to learn of your experience as a potential timeshare purchaser/seller of Michelle's:
> 
> ...


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## hotcoffee (Jul 5, 2011)

m61376 said:


> People trading in their weeks for points gives Marriott rights to usage of the week. On the other hand, aren't those Marriott's to do with as they please, fueling its rental inventory.



Yes, but they cannot add those weeks to the Trust because Marriott would then have to file formal papers and turn them over to the bank (the trustee).  That action would be permanent.  I assume dioxide2 was referring not to the actual land trust, but to the DC exchange pool.  Any week that Marriott holds that is not part of the Trust can be used however they want.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 5, 2011)

m61376 said:


> ... Sue- Actually, the low point allocation for the Aruba weeks presents an interesting situation. Clearly, Marriott actually values the Aruba weeks amongst the highest when it comes to rental rates; its low valuation only curiously applies to point allocations. Therein lies an interesting situation: there is a low incentive for Aruba owners to trade their week in for points because of the relatively low allocation and the fact that Aruba weeks historically have commanded some of the highest rental rates, with the relatively low point cost for a high demand week that would otherwise cost a lot of money to rent. So owners have a poor incentive to convert their weeks, while exchangers get a good deal when exchanging in for points and, furthermore, when the economy improves and the rental market regains speed, point reservations for Aruba weeks may be even in higher demand because they command high rental rates. Thus, I can see Marriott trying to acquire more weeks there, although I doubt they are ROFR'ing anything with any significant consistency in this market.





hotcoffee said:


> I have no idea whether they are doing any more ROFRs than in the past, but I would think that if they were to step them up, they might do so for the Aruba resorts since they apparently still cannot be put into the Trust. ...



Hmmmm.  Depending upon how you look at things, whether you're thinking about how things are working now or how they will work in the future, it really is possible to look at the Aruba Weeks and reach different conclusions.  Right now while they can't be conveyed to the Trust and while they are still being sold as Weeks, it would make sense for Marriott to ROFR the lowest-priced resales to re-stock whatever Weeks inventory for which they may have waiting-and-willing buyers.  But if/when they can be conveyed to the Trust, I just don't see value for Marriott or the owners in either the Point allocations or costs, at least not unless the Aruban properties have their DC values redone when they're added to the DC Trust.

Marilyn, I think you're making yourself crazy by continuing to try to somehow equate rack rental rates with DC Point values.  And I'm not saying that to insult you or negate your arguments - it's completely true what you're saying that DC values don't flesh with rack rates!  It's just that Marriott so obviously didn't consider rack rates, so why introduce the factor into the equation when there's no basis for it?

Also, I don't see at all that, "... exchangers get a good deal when exchanging in [to Aruba] for points ..."  If you compare the 3BR oceanside SurfWatch and Aruba Surf Club points charts, SW ranges from 1,225 to 6,175 and SC ranges from 3,550 to 8,875.  Granted, Hilton Head's weather patterns make for true off-season weeks while Aruba enjoys a year-round climate, but still I wouldn't expect the highest-season weeks in each calendar to have a 2,700 Point difference between them - especially as SW is a drive-to destination while Aruba requires air travel.  Sure there's a difference between Caribbean and east coast beaches, but it's not enough during high season to justify that Point differential, not when the resorts are pretty much equals in design and amenities.  I guess I could be the exception to the rule, but I'd never use my Weeks as Points to reserve an Aruban stay (and I have high-allocation Weeks.)



hotcoffee said:


> Also, I do not understand your comment about the 25% of MRP weeks in the Trust.  The Trust is "owned" by Trust owners.  MRP trades could be either legacy or Trust weeks.  Why would you say that the Trust gets 25% of its inventory from MRP?



I took this to mean that MRP-exchanged Weeks are being deposited into the DC Exchange Company and Trust Members have access to those for reservations.  Roundabout, but it's what makes sense to me.


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## m61376 (Jul 5, 2011)

Sue- I'm not trying to drive myself crazy, nor to equate the rental rates with the allocations, since that obviously was not the way they did things. The point I was making is that an average (non-holiday) winter week "costs" about 4500 points, and a summer week less, yet they command high rental rates (whether a timeshare owner looking to book a week and then rent it out, or an owner thinking of going to the Caribbean and renting a week either in a hotel room or  a timeshare unit). The relative $$cost to rent on Marriott.com versus reserving with points is very good, making point use for Aruba (or the other Caribbean properties for that matter) a relative bargain. For example, those 4500 points would secure a week that would otherwise cost about $6000 to rent, whereas if I used more points to rent a week on HH, for example, the week would otherwise cost me somewheres in the $3500 vicinity to rent on Marriott (I am not looking this up, so my figures are probably off somewhat for HH; that's just from memory). 

It is just another way of looking at "value" of point use. I am not the only one who has pointed out that using points for reserving Caribbean and other high $ cost nights is a good value. This is similar to the calculation that people make when using MR points to reserve a night- the best use of MR points is for nights that cost more in real $$'s to otherwise reserve.

In fact, one of the reasons I may ultimately elect to join is to be able to rent points to reserve an additional unit when needed, because renting points would be far cheaper than renting a unit.


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## byebye (Jul 5, 2011)

Little over a year ago I was looking for a Aruba Surf Club and had the pleasure of dealing with Donato. I tried to purchase at a low  price (I think it was about 2/3rds). She pretty much insulted me so I said to her that I don't want to deal with a smart a$$. Her response to that was, "Excuse me???? I wasn’t being a smarty just pointing out that your offer was VERY low!! I don’t want to sell to a jerk!! Good Day!!"". So, I purchased from someone else. I've kept the emails just for an occasion like this. Take it for what its worth.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 5, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> I am not sure why it would seem logical that they would be stepping up ROFR activity. Have you seen the glut of inventory in the trust? Yes, they have bought back some weeks from people on their resale waiting list, that seems to have been a targeted. The trust gets access to 25% of all weeks through MRP trades without it even owning anything.
> 
> In the end, the mention from a broker about ROFR, is the same as that from a Marriott sale person. It is a fabrication to get you to pay more for something than it is really worth. *Are you suggesting the OP buy the week for the price mentioned because of the brokers comments?* I would hope not.


Where did that come from?  I did not even remotely suggest anything of the kind.  I was simply saying that I would not be surprised if Marriott is indeed stepping up its ROFR activity to some extent.  Just because someone does not like the source of a comment (Donato) does not make the comment false (or true).


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## Sunbum (Jul 5, 2011)

*Donato*

I bought from Michelle this spring and she was outstanding to deal with. I feel I got a good deal and she handled everything very quickly. I have recomended her to others. I think she does tend to call a spade a spade though. So if you are a low baller or a dreamer, she will probably move on to more serious buyers. As they say, time is money. She knows the Marriott properties very well and owns a wack of them herself.

JMHO


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## dioxide45 (Jul 5, 2011)

hotcoffee said:


> Also, I do not understand your comment about the 25% of MRP weeks in the Trust.  The Trust is "owned" by Trust owners.  MRP trades could be either legacy or Trust weeks.  Why would you say that the Trust gets 25% of its inventory from MRP?





hotcoffee said:


> Yes, but they cannot add those weeks to the Trust because Marriott would then have to file formal papers and turn them over to the bank (the trustee).  That action would be permanent.  I assume dioxide2 was referring not to the actual land trust, but to the DC exchange pool.  Any week that Marriott holds that is not part of the Trust can be used however they want.





SueDonJ said:


> I took this to mean that MRP-exchanged Weeks are being deposited into the DC Exchange Company and Trust Members have access to those for reservations.  Roundabout, but it's what makes sense to me.



I was referring to MRP exchanged weeks. However, it isn't known where those weeks really go. They could go for rental on Marriott.com, made available to only trust owners, or deposited in to the exchange company. There is no inventory manual (as Dan calls it) that indicates this inventory goes to the exchange company. My point I was trying to make is that Marriott can make the program work without us or ROFR on any weeks. The only thing they need is points to sell, which they have plenty of.

They can make those 25% of the weeks available to only trust owners if they so desire. They don't have to convey them to the trust to make them available only to trust owners. Which would actually make sense given how some people have had trouble making 12 and 13 month reservations.



BocaBoy said:


> Where did that come from?  I did not even remotely suggest anything of the kind.  I was simply saying that I would not be surprised if Marriott is indeed stepping up its ROFR activity to some extent.  Just because someone does not like the source of a comment (Donato) does not make the comment false (or true).



The broker indicate that Marriott was/were, meaning they are, exercising ROFR at $11K and $18K for one and two bedroom units. My point was that this clearly is not the case even with the fact that they have bought back some select inventories. Your post indicated that they would be stepping up ROFR activity, but that isn't what the broker indicated, she indicate that they were exercising, meaning now. Which is clearly not the case.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jul 5, 2011)

Sunbum said:


> I bought from Michelle this spring and she was outstanding to deal with. I feel I got a good deal and she handled everything very quickly. I have recomended her to others. I think she does tend to call a spade a spade though. So if you are a low baller or a dreamer, she will probably move on to more serious buyers. As they say, time is money. She knows the Marriott properties very well and owns a wack of them herself.
> 
> JMHO



Does anyone know if real estate agents in Florida have a regulatory obligation to present "all offers" to a Seller?


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## Sunbum (Jul 5, 2011)

I have no idea if they must present all offers. What constitutes presenting an offer? If the seller says to the the agent, "I won't look at anything under $18,000" and the agents gets an offer of $15,000, has the offer already been rejected????

I have no idea.


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## infamazz (Jul 5, 2011)

My next correspondence with Ms. Donato:

Hi Michelle,

Unfortunately, I can't come close to those prices. Some other sellers on Redweek are offering 1BR Platinum weeks for $9K and 2BR Platinum for $14,500 - I am not looking to spend close to those amounts either. I figured that since you have a large inventory, there would be a greater chance that one of your client's would be willing to come down significantly on their price.

If it helps, I would certainly take the risk of Marriott exercising its right of first refusal if a buyer would be willing to come down on their price. Please let me know if any sellers would be willing to come down substantially from their price-point. Thanks!

Regards,

XXX
_________________________________________________

Response:

No one sells more Aruba Marriott then myself. Your are incorrect. Good luck if you find you can come up let me know.
I would recommend renting for you.
You mistaken on the inventory. There actually isn't much.
Thanks


Michelle Donato
Licensed Real Estate Agent
321-206-6293
Sent from my iPad
_____________________________________________________

Is it just me, or is she being pretty rude, and dismissive, considering there are 70 units for sale on Redweek for Surf Club and 30 for sale for Ocean Club.

Oh well, figured I'd get her name out there so she takes the hit to her business that she rightly deserves.


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## ondeadlin (Jul 5, 2011)

Yes, she seems rude and dismissive (and with typos and poor punctuation no less).

Go to eBay, be patient, buy for a fraction of what she's asking, and then post the results here.  That's really the best revenge you can have.


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## jimf41 (Jul 5, 2011)

Sunbum said:


> I have no idea if they must present all offers. What constitutes presenting an offer? If the seller says to the the agent, "I won't look at anything under $18,000" and the agents gets an offer of $15,000, has the offer already been rejected????
> 
> I have no idea.



It seems they do but in reality it may be different. Here's a link to an answer

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080501073759AA0zWNC

Personally I would not deal with a person who conducted business in this manner.


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## SpikeMauler (Jul 5, 2011)

infamazz said:


> My next correspondence with Ms. Donato:
> 
> Hi Michelle,
> 
> ...



Wow, that's definitely a rude response to a polite inquiry. That e-mail looks like it was typed by someone illiterate and looks nothing like the ones I've recieved from her. As I've stated in an earlier post I corresponded with her by phone and e-mail  over a weeks time trying to negotiate a deal. The deal never got done but she couldn't have been nicer on the phone and in her e-mails. We actually had a verbal agreement for her sellers week and she faxed over the contract but before I signed and faxed it back a second broker I was negotiating with suprisingly came back with final price of $2,000 less than Michelle's sellers. I kind of felt bad knowing we had a verbal agreement but I called Michelle and told her that a lower offer was accepted by the second broker and asked if she could match the price. She said she couldn't match it and she understood. She then said to "jump" on the other deal as it was a great price. This was after a week of negotiating with her. She was very nice till the end and wished me luck with the other deal and to keep her in mind if it(the deal) fell through. I guess what I'm saying is I never saw a rude or deceptive side to her in our correspondence.


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## BocaBoy (Jul 6, 2011)

dioxide45 said:


> The broker indicate that Marriott was/were, meaning they are, exercising ROFR at $11K and $18K for one and two bedroom units. My point was that this *clearly is not the case* even with the fact that they have bought back some select inventories. Your post indicated that they would be stepping up ROFR activity, but that isn't what the broker indicated, she indicate that they were exercising, meaning now. Which is clearly not the case.


Wow, what an agenda you seem to have.  "Clearly" not the case?  Again, I'm not so sure since I have heard of some.  Some have even been identified on TUG.  And "stepping up" I thought implied both current exercises plus a likely increase in the future.   I obviously don't know how many, but I guess you do--apparently none.


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## GregT (Jul 6, 2011)

BocaBoy said:


> Wow, what an agenda you seem to have.  "Clearly" not the case?  Again, I'm not so sure since I have heard of some.  Some have even been identified on TUG.  And "stepping up" I thought implied both current exercises plus a likely increase in the future.   I obviously don't know how many, but I guess you do--apparently none.



BocaBoy, 

I don't believe Dioxide has an agenda.   I believe he is just reflecting the database of recent transactions (posted voluntarily by buyers/sellers), but which shows only 3 properties (out of 226) that did not pass ROFR since Jan 1, 2009.

So, while I'm sure Marriott is probably selectively purchasing properties and probably exercising more ROFRs than before (which was basically none), it still hasn't risen to a level that has been noticed by the TUG community (contrast with Starwood and Hilton boards, where it is big news for a ROFR to occur).   

It is very possible that the broker merely exaggerated the level of ROFR activity that Marriott is conducting, in the interests of negotiating a good price for her client.  The broker does suggest an active ROFR program, based on OPs comments.

Thanks.

Greg


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## cruisin (Jul 6, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> I think the days of Marriott ROFR'ing Weeks resales on at least a semi-regular basis are over simply because the introduction of the DC changes their entire product.  I do think it's possible that years down the road they may use ROFR more frequently to re-stock the DC Trust with selective Weeks, but that's only if the overall economy improves to the point where many people once again have discretionary income that they can afford to play with in the timeshare market.  If/when that happens, I wouldn't expect the Aruba properties to be on that selective list unless their valuations in the DC are increased - right now the Points allotted to enrolled/converted Aruba Weeks are among the lowest in the entire MVCI portfolio.
> 
> All that said, like BocaBoy has said repeatedly on TUG, Marriott Resales is now fishing for very specific properties, and Marriott is ROFR'ing specific resales on a very infrequent basis.  Since the DC intro, though, there haven't been enough reports on TUG for us to make an educated guess as to which properties/Weeks Marriott considers valuable today.



I agree, points are points, as long as Marriott has a ton of points to sell, they are not buying more. They would be better off picking up free lower tier marriott properties than paying for them. I think they would sooner place hotel units from lower vacancy hotels into the trust than start any significant ROFR. It does not matter where they create points, they will keep selling them in the hottest sales office wherever that is. I heard a rumor that the next resort under construction will be a beautiful resort in Aruba "close to the beach" This Resort will not have a sales office, but they will sell points at the existing Aruba beachfront resorts.

I have a hard time believing this kind of  rumor, because this would maximize Marriott's profits. :hysterical:


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## Sunbum (Jul 6, 2011)

Sorry folks, but i agree with Michelle. Lots of brokers list weeks that they don"t have. When you e-mail them for details, there are no responses. (they go looking for inventory, hoping someone else may have some). Let me know if you can buy a 2 bdrm Plat at the Ocean Club for $14,500. I will take all I can get. Seriously.


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## ilene13 (Jul 6, 2011)

Michelle has contacted me about selling my 3bedroom platinum Surfwatch unit. I told her to try.  We had some miscommunications, once we straightened it out she has been nothing but pleasant and professional.


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## pacheco18 (Jul 6, 2011)

Report the Broker to the local real estate licensing board.
She will be fined, suspended or otherwise penalized.


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## PinkLady (Jul 6, 2011)

*Michelle*

First of all I am sure there is more to the conversation.  I have only known Michelle to be very honest and easy to work with.  She is very knowledgeable of the Aruba market.  I have sent numerous friends and family that have bought from her.  It sounds like others have their own agenda to me.  I noticed many ads are no longer available when I was looking or never had the property they were advertising.


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## ml855 (Jul 6, 2011)

Sunbum said:


> I bought from Michelle this spring and she was outstanding to deal with. I feel I got a good deal and she handled everything very quickly. I have recomended her to others. I think she does tend to call a spade a spade though. So if you are a low baller or a dreamer,* she will probably move on to more serious buyers*. As they say, time is money. She knows the Marriott properties very well and owns a wack of them herself.
> 
> JMHO




I was a serious buyer!!  she won't get my business the way she responded to my offer, when you negotiate with someone most people will start off with a lower offer then the asking price.  She wouldn't even consider mine.


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## mdonato (Jul 6, 2011)

*Michelle*

Wow!Never thought my comments would get this much attention.  I had 4 clients email me in regards to this thread.  First of all I, Michelle Donato DID have a clients 1B platinum week bought back by Marriott a few weeks ago.I am happy to furnish the Exercised letter from Marriott for anyone who would like to see it.  You can also call David Chapman in the Marriott resales Buy back Dept for verification.I have no reason to fabricate such a thing.  I also was told by 2 other agents their 1 B units also were bought back by Marriott.
In regards to this gentlemens offer I get those types of low ball offers hourly.What people find on MRN, redwk or any of the sites out there are "advertisements" not "listings". In Florida yes you need to present all offers to your "listings".  However timeshare is a bit different in that these are all advertising sites not a listing site.  If that were the case they would be run differently. Most agents in the timeshare industry do not take listings.  I actually take very few listings.  The other advertisement on redweek the gentlemen is referring to is Angie's H.advertisement.  I told him that one was sold the reason I know that is because after Marriott bought my customers week back I used hers for my buyer to purchase instead. He didnt mention this email.That week was also put through FROR and as of now we have not heard what Marriott will do.I did just get off the plane from my first trip to NYC(fantastic place ).  When I was responding to this gentlemen I was brief because I was on my Ipad and where I couldnt give a long response.Obviously it came off wrong my apologies.( My Ipad also makes weird corrections I dont always catch.)
In the resale world today I would say many agents dont have the inventory readily available they are advertising.  Most know they can find it if need be.Most TUG users wouldnt know but the market has recently been flooded by a few buyers that have wanted to buy as many as 25 platinum weeks each.  Their offer is $17900 2B plat.  I have sold them around 10 weeks thus far and they still want more.  I have not been able to find any lately at or under that price.  So when I receive an offer for $14500 2B plat and you are an owner to which I have recently made the $17900 offer to what is the responce going to be? No thanks!  In earlier emails I did mention I have been receiving higher offers which is the absolute truth.  I have an offer of $10500 1B plat that I cant find a seller to accept currently.  So while it may sound like I am being rude or dismissive but I am being to the point and honest.The market is much busier then I think people realize.  At least when it comes to the Marriott Aruba's.  
I would also suggest EBAY for those cheap deals but becareful as there is much schill bidding on ebay with many of the companies OR get in touch with those post card companies that deal with more desperate owners.  If the low numbers were truely possible I would have no problem selling them to any buyer.  In the interest of everyones time and energy I like to be direct and to the point which doesnt always come across in the best manner I suppose.  Again my apologies this was not my intent.  My advice to rent I thought was great advice as you can get some great deals on rentals in todays market place.  I am happy to answer any question about any timeshare.  Hopefully this helps with some of the concerns. Thanks Michelle


----------



## mdonato (Jul 6, 2011)

cruisin said:


> I agree, points are points, as long as Marriott has a ton of points to sell, they are not buying more. They would be better off picking up free lower tier marriott properties than paying for them. I think they would sooner place hotel units from lower vacancy hotels into the trust than start any significant ROFR. It does not matter where they create points, they will keep selling them in the hottest sales office wherever that is. I heard a rumor that the next resort under construction will be a beautiful resort in Aruba "close to the beach" This Resort will not have a sales office, but they will sell points at the existing Aruba beachfront resorts.
> 
> I have a hard time believing this kind of  rumor, because this would maximize Marriott's profits. :hysterical:



Marriott is not building in Aruba as far as timeshare goes.  They are building a Ritz Carlton next to the Marriott Hotel.  I just returned from Aruba a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## mdonato (Jul 6, 2011)

EducatedConsumer said:


> Does anyone know if real estate agents in Florida have a regulatory obligation to present "all offers" to a Seller?



Yes we do on all "Listings".  Unfortunatley becasue timeshare doesnt have a MLS yet with per say listings you will only find "advertisements" in today's marketplace.  Hopefully someday it will be different so consumers can get more accurate knowledge of the market place.  One of the challenges with that is that it would have to be a national program.  Myself and a few other well respected agents are trying to get such a thing together.


----------



## Sunbum (Jul 6, 2011)

*Thanks MD*

So much for me buying them up at $14,500 Maybe after the next recession!


----------



## taffy19 (Jul 6, 2011)

Sunbum said:


> So much for me buying them up at $14,500 Maybe after the next recession!


Please, don't wish that on us.     I hope that you are kidding.

Interesting thread. We were recently in Palm Desert and went to see a resale broker. I was under the impression first that it was the broker who posts here on TUG but it wasn't. It is still another broker and they have an office in the shopping center where we bought our groceries.

We asked him about resale prices for the MDSV-I since we owned there before we upgraded to Maui. He gave us a list. He had only a few listings for the Marriott resorts in Palm Desert but he told us that he had sold quite a few since the new trust points' system was introduced. These buyers are mainly buying for use rather than for exchanging which makes sense as it isn't far from Los Angeles.

Numbers go in one ear and out the other for me but I remember the number of 40 resales at one resort alone and quite a few too at the others and that was by this broker alone. He also said that it seems to go in cycles for which resort is the most popular one.

I would rather list with a resale broker than trying to sell a week myself on eBay unless we would have to sell in a big hurry.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jul 6, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> Yes we do on all "Listings".  Unfortunatley becasue timeshare doesnt have a MLS yet with per say listings you will only find "advertisements" in today's marketplace.  Hopefully someday it will be different so consumers can get more accurate knowledge of the market place.  One of the challenges with that is that it would have to be a national program.  Myself and a few other well respected agents are trying to get such a thing together.



I'm confused, Michelle.

Do you mean to tell me that if I approach you as a Marriott timeshare owner and "Seller" and you enter into a Business Agreement with me to sell our timeshare that that does not constitute a Listing Agreement and that you are not bound to present an offer to the Seller?



TimeshareMD said:


> Wow!Never thought my comments would get this much attention.  I had 4 clients email me in regards to this thread.  First of all I, Michelle Donato DID have a clients 1B platinum week bought back by Marriott a few weeks ago.I am happy to furnish the Exercised letter from Marriott for anyone who would like to see it.  You can also call David Chapman in the Marriott resales Buy back Dept for verification.I have no reason to fabricate such a thing.  I also was told by 2 other agents their 1 B units also were bought back by Marriott.
> In regards to this gentlemens offer I get those types of low ball offers hourly.What people find on MRN, redwk or any of the sites out there are "advertisements" not "listings". In Florida yes you need to present all offers to your "listings".  However timeshare is a bit different in that these are all advertising sites not a listing site.  If that were the case they would be run differently. Most agents in the timeshare industry do not take listings.  I actually take very few listings.  The other advertisement on redweek the gentlemen is referring to is Angie's H.advertisement.  I told him that one was sold the reason I know that is because after Marriott bought my customers week back I used hers for my buyer to purchase instead. He didnt mention this email.That week was also put through FROR and as of now we have not heard what Marriott will do.I did just get off the plane from my first trip to NYC(fantastic place ).  When I was responding to this gentlemen I was brief because I was on my Ipad and where I couldnt give a long response.Obviously it came off wrong my apologies.( My Ipad also makes weird corrections I dont always catch.)
> In the resale world today I would say many agents dont have the inventory readily available they are advertising.  Most know they can find it if need be.Most TUG users wouldnt know but the market has recently been flooded by a few buyers that have wanted to buy as many as 25 platinum weeks each.  Their offer is $17900 2B plat.  I have sold them around 10 weeks thus far and they still want more.  I have not been able to find any lately at or under that price.  So when I receive an offer for $14500 2B plat and you are an owner to which I have recently made the $17900 offer to what is the responce going to be? No thanks!  In earlier emails I did mention I have been receiving higher offers which is the absolute truth.  I have an offer of $10500 1B plat that I cant find a seller to accept currently.  So while it may sound like I am being rude or dismissive but I am being to the point and honest.The market is much busier then I think people realize.  At least when it comes to the Marriott Aruba's.
> I would also suggest EBAY for those cheap deals but becareful as there is much schill bidding on ebay with many of the companies OR get in touch with those post card companies that deal with more desperate owners.  If the low numbers were truely possible I would have no problem selling them to any buyer.  In the interest of everyones time and energy I like to be direct and to the point which doesnt always come across in the best manner I suppose.  Again my apologies this was not my intent.  My advice to rent I thought was great advice as you can get some great deals on rentals in todays market place.  I am happy to answer any question about any timeshare.  Hopefully this helps with some of the concerns. Thanks Michelle


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## dougp26364 (Jul 7, 2011)

Never mind, the link was to information two years old (2009).

I wouldn't bother this broker with my business anymore. If it were me, I'd move onto another broker who would propose my offer to the seller. If Marriott exercises ROFR so be it. There's to many people looking to sell and not enough people looking to buy.


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## m61376 (Jul 7, 2011)

Interesting thread. Out of curiosity I looked at Redweek myself, and something I did find very interesting is the rental rates posted have climbed precipitously, looking more like 3 years ago than the past 2 years. Aruba rates have historically been high, but over the past couple of years there were several lower rates posted and rented, which I didn't see in my quick look.

I know there are many owners who lock off and stay 2-4 weeks over the winter, but am surprised that there are several people looking to buy multiple weeks, as many as 25 weeks each. That's  approaching a half million dollar investment, in which case I'm surprised they are not just interested in buying a condo.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 7, 2011)

EducatedConsumer said:


> I'm confused, Michelle.
> 
> Do you mean to tell me that if I approach you as a Marriott timeshare owner and "Seller" and you enter into a Business Agreement with me to sell our timeshare that that does not constitute a Listing Agreement and that you are not bound to present an offer to the Seller?



That would constitute a listing agreement. However, as indicated, not all "advertisements" are listings. They advertise weeks for sale and when a buyer comes along they go out and find the week to sell. There was never a listing for sale.


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## FlyerBobcat (Jul 7, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> ...  Most TUG users wouldnt know but the market has recently been flooded by a few buyers that have wanted to buy as many as 25 platinum weeks each.  Their offer is $17900 2B plat.  I have sold them around 10 weeks thus far and they still want more.  I have not been able to find any lately at or under that price....



Hey TUGers, any thoughts on what's up with these few buyers that are looking for so many weeks?


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## floyddl (Jul 7, 2011)

m61376 said:


> Interesting thread. Out of curiosity I looked at Redweek myself, and something I did find very interesting is the rental rates posted have climbed precipitously, looking more like 3 years ago than the past 2 years. Aruba rates have historically been high, but over the past couple of years there were several lower rates posted and rented, which I didn't see in my quick look.
> 
> I know there are many owners who lock off and stay 2-4 weeks over the winter, but am surprised that there are several people looking to buy multiple weeks, as many as 25 weeks each. That's  approaching a half million dollar investment, in which case I'm surprised they are not just interested in buying a condo.



I have been following the Aruba rentals on Redweek for a few months.  While the rates asked are high a large percentage go unrented.  Some lower their rates dramatically at the last minute but it appears many are either making last minute deposits in interval or canceling.  It is summer season there but there is a lot of excess supply on the rental market.


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## ilene13 (Jul 7, 2011)

floyddl said:


> I have been following the Aruba rentals on Redweek for a few months.  While the rates asked are high a large percentage go unrented.  Some lower their rates dramatically at the last minute but it appears many are either making last minute deposits in interval or canceling.  It is summer season there but there is a lot of excess supply on the rental market.



I own 3 platinum weeks in Aruba.  I usually book 1 week 51 and 2week 52's. If my children (adults) do not use the second week 52 I rent it.  It usually rents within a month of posting it on line through Redweek or TUG.  I then mark it as rented on line.  I have a friend who is often unable to book her two platinum weeks with Marriott.  She usually gets one and often rents a second.  I help her look for that second week. We look on both sites and contact many owners.  The majority of them are rented and the owners do not go back to the sites to indicate as such.  It is annoying.  Of course I can only address the Christmas-New Years inventory.
  Also there are many owners in Aruba who own an exorbitant number of 
weeks and they use it as a business.  We bought our first timeshare in 1980 and I had never seen that occurrence until we were AOC owners.


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## m61376 (Jul 7, 2011)

floyddl said:


> I have been following the Aruba rentals on Redweek for a few months.  While the rates asked are high a large percentage go unrented.  Some lower their rates dramatically at the last minute but it appears many are either making last minute deposits in interval or canceling.  It is summer season there but there is a lot of excess supply on the rental market.



I too notice that a lot of dates pass without being marked as "rented," although I am not sure whether or not they are actually rented. I know a lot of people put up ads and if they can rent it, fine, and if not, they use it or trade it, and a lot of people keep the ad up even after renting it. So there is no way to know what percentage actually rent. I have been looking at the rates for several years, and I've noticed a dramatic overall rise, with even rented units advertising at least for higher prices than before. Is that a reflection of the overall economy and/or are people traveling more? I don't know what or if anything can be concluded from such listings. I just thought it was interesting and "may" reflect a new trend in the market. 

As travel improves I would expect those rental rates to go up, because a private renter's biggest competitor is Marriott itself, and the Aruba nights are some of the most expensive of all the timeshare units on Marriott.com. Now, as Marriott actuaries have concluded, that timeshare users are different than rental clients (thus justifying the point allocation given to the Caribbean weeks in general), I am not sure where private renters fall in the scheme of things, although I would think that someone going to rent at Marriott.com and then looking at private rentals would use the rack rates for comparative purposes.

Ilene- that's interesting. I never knew that owners have made a business out of it, but I guess I am not surprised. Pretty impressive that you can consistently book those holiday weeks without stringing a week 50 on the front end, although I guess since Plat. starts at 51 it might make it easier. At any extent, you post verifies the issue of a lot of units remaining seemingly unrented that are likely rented.


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## MOXJO7282 (Jul 7, 2011)

floyddl said:


> I have been following the Aruba rentals on Redweek for a few months.  While the rates asked are high a large percentage go unrented.  Some lower their rates dramatically at the last minute but it appears many are either making last minute deposits in interval or canceling.  It is summer season there but there is a lot of excess supply on the rental market.


I can't speak to the summer market, and can only speak to the Marriott Aruba Surf but I can tell you this is not true for a plat week. 

Anyone who lists at a reasonable rate for around $3k for a 2 BDRM with a view during the winter months will rent.


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## mdonato (Jul 7, 2011)

EducatedConsumer said:


> I'm confused, Michelle.
> 
> Do you mean to tell me that if I approach you as a Marriott timeshare owner and "Seller" and you enter into a Business Agreement with me to sell our timeshare that that does not constitute a Listing Agreement and that you are not bound to present an offer to the Seller?



Mr/Mrs Educated consumer
I very rarely enter into listing agreements in timeshare hardly anyone does. From time to time I do an exclusive listing if it is an exceptional property.  I charge no upfront fees to help someone sell their property like most many others do. When a seller comes to me and most do I tell them what they can expect to realize for their property.  Unlike residential real estate I have thousands of clients interested in selling not a dozen or so.  I am upfront with sellers and tell them a range of what they can expect 90% of them are in disbelief and frustrated that their timeshare isnt worth more.  Clients will tell me what they are willing to accept and will also tell me if they want all offers including low ball offers.  Which both of these offers in this thread were.  The offer was for $3500 for a platinum 1B at the Aruba Ocean Club and $6000 for a 2B in platinum season.  As I have said earlier I have an offer of $10500 for a 1B and $17900 for a 2B unit.  This pricing simply is not reasonable for todays market or even at the peak of the recession.  I advised this buyer I just had a unit exercised for about triple that price. (I will post it as soon as I figure out how to.)This was a low ball offer and none of my owners want to be bothered with it.  I am just respecting the wishes of my clients.


----------



## mdonato (Jul 7, 2011)

m61376 said:


> I too notice that a lot of dates pass without being marked as "rented," although I am not sure whether or not they are actually rented. I know a lot of people put up ads and if they can rent it, fine, and if not, they use it or trade it, and a lot of people keep the ad up even after renting it. So there is no way to know what percentage actually rent. I have been looking at the rates for several years, and I've noticed a dramatic overall rise, with even rented units advertising at least for higher prices than before. Is that a reflection of the overall economy and/or are people traveling more? I don't know what or if anything can be concluded from such listings. I just thought it was interesting and "may" reflect a new trend in the market.
> 
> As travel improves I would expect those rental rates to go up, because a private renter's biggest competitor is Marriott itself, and the Aruba nights are some of the most expensive of all the timeshare units on Marriott.com. Now, as Marriott actuaries have concluded, that timeshare users are different than rental clients (thus justifying the point allocation given to the Caribbean weeks in general), I am not sure where private renters fall in the scheme of things, although I would think that someone going to rent at Marriott.com and then looking at private rentals would use the rack rates for comparative purposes.
> 
> Ilene- that's interesting. I never knew that owners have made a business out of it, but I guess I am not surprised. Pretty impressive that you can consistently book those holiday weeks without stringing a week 50 on the front end, although I guess since Plat. starts at 51 it might make it easier. At any extent, you post verifies the issue of a lot of units remaining seemingly unrented that are likely rented.



Rentals-Many owners do make a business out of renting their timeshare.  Rental pricing in Aruba has been going up especially for plat plus wks and plat wks.  I also think many people on redweek dont update thier ads as they rent their weeks.


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## GregT (Jul 7, 2011)

FlyerBobcat said:


> Hey TUGers, any thoughts on what's up with these few buyers that are looking for so many weeks?



Tom,

I would suspect that its Marriott -- who else would need to acquire 25 prime weeks for $18K each?  I would think an individual with $450K to burn isn't going to buy here, whereas Marriott would effectively be purchasing two units in Jan/Feb/March.

It will be interesting to see if in 6-12 months, we see 25 units added to the Trust for Aruba.   Perhaps the same thing is happening behind the scenes with Frenchman's Cove, which is another void in the Trust.

Best,

Greg


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## mdonato (Jul 7, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> Wow!Never thought my comments would get this much attention.  I had 4 clients email me in regards to this thread.  First of all I, Michelle Donato DID have a clients 1B platinum week bought back by Marriott a few weeks ago.I am happy to furnish the Exercised letter from Marriott for anyone who would like to see it.  You can also call David Chapman in the Marriott resales Buy back Dept for verification.I have no reason to fabricate such a thing.  I also was told by 2 other agents their 1 B units also were bought back by Marriott.
> In regards to this gentlemens offer I get those types of low ball offers hourly.What people find on MRN, redwk or any of the sites out there are "advertisements" not "listings". In Florida yes you need to present all offers to your "listings".  However timeshare is a bit different in that these are all advertising sites not a listing site.  If that were the case they would be run differently. Most agents in the timeshare industry do not take listings.  I actually take very few listings.  The other advertisement on redweek the gentlemen is referring to is Angie's H.advertisement.  I told him that one was sold the reason I know that is because after Marriott bought my customers week back I used hers for my buyer to purchase instead. He didnt mention this email.That week was also put through FROR and as of now we have not heard what Marriott will do.I did just get off the plane from my first trip to NYC(fantastic place ).  When I was responding to this gentlemen I was brief because I was on my Ipad and where I couldnt give a long response.Obviously it came off wrong my apologies.( My Ipad also makes weird corrections I dont always catch.)
> In the resale world today I would say many agents dont have the inventory readily available they are advertising.  Most know they can find it if need be.Most TUG users wouldnt know but the market has recently been flooded by a few buyers that have wanted to buy as many as 25 platinum weeks each.  Their offer is $17900 2B plat.  I have sold them around 10 weeks thus far and they still want more.  I have not been able to find any lately at or under that price.  So when I receive an offer for $14500 2B plat and you are an owner to which I have recently made the $17900 offer to what is the responce going to be? No thanks!  In earlier emails I did mention I have been receiving higher offers which is the absolute truth.  I have an offer of $10500 1B plat that I cant find a seller to accept currently.  So while it may sound like I am being rude or dismissive but I am being to the point and honest.The market is much busier then I think people realize.  At least when it comes to the Marriott Aruba's.
> I would also suggest EBAY for those cheap deals but becareful as there is much schill bidding on ebay with many of the companies OR get in touch with those post card companies that deal with more desperate owners.  If the low numbers were truely possible I would have no problem selling them to any buyer.  In the interest of everyones time and energy I like to be direct and to the point which doesnt always come across in the best manner I suppose.  Again my apologies this was not my intent.  My advice to rent I thought was great advice as you can get some great deals on rentals in todays market place.  I am happy to answer any question about any timeshare.  Hopefully this helps with some of the concerns. Thanks Michelle



Copy of exercise letter for FROR
http://www.flickr.com/timesharemd


----------



## mdonato (Jul 7, 2011)

infamazz said:


> I recently contacted broker Michelle Donato about purchasing a resale Marriott Aruba Surf or Ocean Club Platinum season unit. She responded to my initial offer that anything less than $11,000 for 1 BR and $18,000 for 2BR were being taken by Marriott using ROFR.
> 
> Now, I completely understand that this is largely a negotiating tactic, and I'm somewhat sure Marriott has not recently increased its ROFR activity, but can anyone confirm that Marriott has not, in fact, increased its buybacks of Platinum weeks? I will go nowhere near those prices she mentioned anyway, but I just want to double-check to make sure that what she is saying isn't at all true.
> 
> ...



Copy of exercise letter for FROR
http://www.flickr.com/timesharemd


----------



## m61376 (Jul 7, 2011)

GregT said:


> Tom,
> 
> I would suspect that its Marriott -- who else would need to acquire 25 prime weeks for $18K each?  I would think an individual with $450K to burn isn't going to buy here, whereas Marriott would effectively be purchasing two units in Jan/Feb/March.
> 
> ...


Greg-
I'm not so sure you're right here. There is a large group that comes down generally week 3, and I can see that they might want additional units rather than the high cost of renting, as many of them do at the hotel and from other owners. With rental rates creeping up back to pre-recession levels, that might be one possibility. 

And, while I am surprised that snowbirds might want so many weeks, we have seen similar purchases elsewhere (NCV, for ex.), some even direct purchases.

If Marriott was looking to buy back so many weeks I would think they would just use ROFR.


----------



## mdonato (Jul 7, 2011)

m61376 said:


> Greg-
> I'm not so sure you're right here. There is a large group that comes down generally week 3, and I can see that they might want additional units rather than the high cost of renting, as many of them do at the hotel and from other owners. With rental rates creeping up back to pre-recession levels, that might be one possibility.
> 
> And, while I am surprised that snowbirds might want so many weeks, we have seen similar purchases elsewhere (NCV, for ex.), some even direct purchases.
> ...



I would agree with your opinion.  This particular buyer is not working with Marriott as far as I can tell.  From the sounds of it this very gracious buyer has been to Aruba dozens of times.  He gave me tons of great advise on what to do in Aruba.  He suggested I get a magic jack phone and gave me great restuarants to visit.  He told me a loves Aruba.  I guess so!


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## SueDonJ (Jul 7, 2011)

GregT said:


> Tom,
> 
> I would suspect that its Marriott -- who else would need to acquire 25 prime weeks for $18K each?  I would think an individual with $450K to burn isn't going to buy here, whereas Marriott would effectively be purchasing two units in Jan/Feb/March.
> 
> ...



There aren't any Caribbean properties in the Trust - if/when there are, we won't know if the 25 mentioned here are among any Trust conveyances unless somebody is able to track the deeds through the local Aruban offices.

My guess is more along the lines of m's, that the folks who organize the Week 3 shindig are looking to own more.  But it also crossed my mind that there may be a concerted effort by some to buy up enough Weeks to gain a larger voting bloc ...

Of course it's also possible that Michelle's clients might be looking to use Aruba as a snowbird location.  25 X $17,9K = $447,500 buy-in plus >$35K/yr MF is still far less expensive than purchasing a 2BR oceanfront condo in Aruba that has all the amenities of the MVCI resorts.  Plus with a condo you have to consider all the associated costs and use/pay a reputable management company to try to recoup some of the costs through rentals of the weeks you're not there.

25-Week Owners certainly aren't the norm among TUGgers but I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are a select few among all the MVCI owners who have oodles of money to use many Weeks that way.  Heck, if I had the money I'd consider it!  Being able to live almost half the year in that style and not have to give one thought to ownership concerns for the other half sounds like paradise.


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## hotcoffee (Jul 7, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> There aren't any Caribbean properties in the Trust - if/when there are, we won't know if the 25 mentioned here are among any Trust conveyances unless somebody is able to track the deeds through the local Aruban offices. . . .



I am getting the impression that many TUGGERs equate Marriott-owned with the Trust.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 7, 2011)

hotcoffee said:


> I am getting the impression that many TUGGERs equate Marriott-owned with the Trust.



It does seem there's a persistent thought that every Week Marriott owns has been or will be conveyed to the Trust.  Years down the road maybe that's going to be the case, but I don't think at this point that we can make any assumptions that Marriott has conveyed all the Weeks they own in each/all resorts.

Although with the Caribbean and European resorts we can be certain that none of the Marriott-owned Weeks have been, because there hasn't been an announcement that Marriott has satisfied the legal requirements to extend the Trust beyond the US resorts.


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## FlyerBobcat (Jul 7, 2011)

m61376 said:


> Greg-
> I'm not so sure you're right here. There is a large group that comes down generally week 3, and I can see that they might want additional units rather than the high cost of renting, as many of them do at the hotel and from other owners. With rental rates creeping up back to pre-recession levels, that might be one possibility.
> 
> And, while I am surprised that snowbirds might want so many weeks, we have seen similar purchases elsewhere (NCV, for ex.), some even direct purchases.
> ...



One of the main reasons why I asked the question......  I was wondering if that might be the case...    Thanks to all for the replies...


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## mdonato (Jul 7, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> There aren't any Caribbean properties in the Trust - if/when there are, we won't know if the 25 mentioned here are among any Trust conveyances unless somebody is able to track the deeds through the local Aruban offices.
> 
> My guess is more along the lines of m's, that the folks who organize the Week 3 shindig are looking to own more.  But it also crossed my mind that there may be a concerted effort by some to buy up enough Weeks to gain a larger voting bloc ...
> 
> ...



FYI- The Marriott's in Aruba are not deeded properties.  They are considered to be a certificate of ownership.  The transfer is done directly with Marriott so getting those types of details may be difficult.  I have heard that the Aruba properties will not ever be able to be in the trust because they are not deeded.  Which makes sense but I guess you never know.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 7, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> FYI- The Marriott's in Aruba are not deeded properties.  They are considered to be a certificate of ownership.  The transfer is done directly with Marriott so getting those types of details may be difficult.  I have heard that the Aruba properties will not ever be able to be in the trust because they are not deeded.  Which makes sense but I guess you never know.



Michelle, thanks for adding your thoughts to the ongoing discussion about Marriott's new Destination Club, as well as taking the time to explain your position in this thread.  Every contribution helps while we're trying to figure out all the different angles of Marriott's timeshare business.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 7, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> Copy of exercise letter for FROR
> http://www.flickr.com/timesharemd



Looks like they exercised at $9000 on a 1BR plat.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jul 7, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> FYI- The Marriott's in Aruba are not deeded properties.  They are considered to be a certificate of ownership.  The transfer is done directly with Marriott so getting those types of details may be difficult.  I have heard that the Aruba properties will not ever be able to be in the trust because they are not deeded.  Which makes sense but I guess you never know.



The correct form of governance, which one would expect someone who refers to themselves as a real estate agent, and a variety of other catchy phrases, is a Co-Operative Association, from which are derived Class A and Class B Shares in the Association.

I had two real estate attorneys take a look at the business tactics of the centerpiece here, and although premature, and pending final review, a variety of regulatory compliance issues arose. We will forward a list of regulatory compliance and consumer issues to Mr. Cochran for his agencies review.

Michael Cochran, Director
Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes
State of Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulations
1940 North Monroe Street 
Tallahassee, FL 32399
Phone: 850.488.1122
Fax: 850.921.5446

I wonder, if where there’s smoke, there’s fire.


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## EducatedConsumer (Jul 7, 2011)

EducatedConsumer said:


> The correct form of governance, which one would expect someone who refers to themselves as a real estate agent, and a variety of other catchy phrases, is a Co-Operative Association, from which are derived Class A and Class B Shares in the Association.
> 
> I had two real estate attorneys take a look at the business tactics of the centerpiece here, and although premature, and pending final review, a variety of regulatory compliance issues arose. We will forward a list of regulatory compliance and consumer issues to Mr. Cochran for his agencies review.
> 
> ...



Question to ask your timeshare salesperson:

Are you licensed in the jurisdiction that you are doing business as a real estate agent by the licensing body designated by the Government? 

Are you a Broker or Agent, and if you are an an Agent, who is your Broker?

Are you a Realtor? A member of the National Association of Realtors (Realtors subscribe to a National Code of Ethics (which addressed "presenting offers," and are subject to review and sanctions by their local Real Estate Board)?

Are you a Member in Good Standing of your local Real Estate Board?


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## GregT (Jul 8, 2011)

EducatedConsumer said:


> I had two real estate attorneys take a look at the business tactics of the centerpiece here, and although premature, and pending final review, a variety of regulatory compliance issues arose. We will forward a list of regulatory compliance and consumer issues to Mr. Cochran for his agencies review.



All,

I'm really confused -- I've not been exposed to whatever the questionable practices are that Michelle is alleged to be associated with.   I've had limited historical contact with Michelle (2 phone calls, may be 18 months ago?) and nothing since then, but I am missing the compliance issues that warrant jeopardizing someone's reputation.  

This thread, while interesting, has risen to a level where damage is being done to an individual's reputation, and I don't see what justifies that?  

Not presenting the offer to the seller?    

Typos from an IPad?

Dismissive (and rude) responses to an inquiry?

Could there be other understandable explanations to these other than a disreputable broker, which is the harshest conclusion?   Could it be electronic communications are notoriously cryptic?  Busy person that was doing too many things at once?  Too many low ball offers that day?     She has presented acceptable answers as to why it is reasonable that she knew the offers would be low and not accepted -- which is the primary issue, as I understand it.

Again, these issues may be annoying and frustrating to us, but, we are definitely approaching character assassination here.    Where are we going with this?

Personally, I would welcome Michelle's continued involvement in the board, just as I welcome Judi and Seth's involvement on the HGVC board.  They share what they are comfortable sharing that comes from Hilton and are well respected in the HGVC TUG community.   We would benefit greatly from an "approved broker" who had contacts at Marriott and could unofficially communicate Marriott's practices.   I'm not saying that she is (or should be) an approved broker, but the information that she is willing and able to share can be interesting and helpful -- I still find it interesting that someone is effectively buying a fractional ownership in Aruba (or is it Marriott?).   

This has been eye opening for all of us (most of all, I would suspect, for Michelle).   

Best,

Greg


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## billymach4 (Jul 8, 2011)

*Where is the OP?*

It would also be nice to hear from the OP. I have concluded that Michelle has been more than accommodating. Not looking for an apology from the OP just an acknowledgement that a miscommunication has taken place. 

This thread has certainly been a benefit to those of us that own a Marriott TS in Aruba. I feel confident in that the Marriott TS market in Aruba is alive and well, and has not lost value due to the DC or economic downturn.


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## Luckybee (Jul 8, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> There aren't any Caribbean properties in the Trust - if/when there are, we won't know if the 25 mentioned here are among any Trust conveyances unless somebody is able to track the deeds through the local Aruban offices.
> 
> My guess is more along the lines of m's, that the folks who organize the Week 3 shindig are looking to own more.  But it also crossed my mind that there may be a concerted effort by some to buy up enough Weeks to gain a larger voting bloc ...
> 
> ...



Sue

It may be the "group" from week 3, it may be a voting bloc, it may be Marriott but I'd be shocked if it would be anyone looking for a snowbird property for personal use. You're way off on condo prices in Aruba. Tierra del sol prices are much higher but for the most part they are single family homes. Dh and I recently explored some properties on the island and amoungst others we looked at the Oceania condos which is imho one of the nicest properties on the island with full services(comparable to what one gets at the M. properties). The price range for a purchase from ranged from a low of about $300,000 for a 1 bdrm, 2 bdrm was about $500,000 and up to 1.2 mill for a 4 bdrm 4 bath, with much lower maintenance/assoc costs ie rental pool mgmt etc. per year than $35,000(for all). Keep in mind this was for 52 weeks of the year usage (which could of course be rented ) For a number of reasons a purchase didnt make sense to us at this time but if someone was looking for a presonal snowbird property this one amoung others would likely be a much more viable alternative.


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## ilene13 (Jul 8, 2011)

As I said before there are a number of owners at the Aruba properties that own in excess of 20 weeks.  The majority of them use them as a business.  I know of one couple who uses their weeks for personal use. The owners who use them as a business, book them and immediately list them on various sites.  Since the economy has had its downturn they have put some of them on the resale market.


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## FlyerBobcat (Jul 8, 2011)

I have to agree with Greg on this..... for sure.


GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I'm really confused -- I've not been exposed to whatever the questionable practices are that Michelle is alleged to be associated with.   I've had limited historical contact with Michelle (2 phone calls, may be 18 months ago?) and nothing since then, but I am missing the compliance issues that warrant jeopardizing someone's reputation.
> 
> ...


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## Sunbum (Jul 8, 2011)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I'm really confused -- I've not been exposed to whatever the questionable practices are that Michelle is alleged to be associated with.   I've had limited historical contact with Michelle (2 phone calls, may be 18 months ago?) and nothing since then, but I am missing the compliance issues that warrant jeopardizing someone's reputation.
> 
> ...



I agree. What's with the lynch mob? I would like to thank Michelle and welcome her to the board. She has been extremely informative, beyond what she needed to do. The is awesome information for us to have as owners.


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## m61376 (Jul 8, 2011)

Luckybee- While I respect your opinion, I have to say I am not sure I agree with you. For whatever reason, there are people who will only stay on Palm Beach, and I'm inclined to think that the Ritz coming virtually next door (on the other side of the Marriott Stellaris) may be generating more interest. I can see someone wanting to come down for the winter and not wanting to bother with ownership and being attracted to the Marriott name and location. The Aqua condos, while kinda next door on the other side, are the closest competition for someone really wanting to be in that location, and there has been a lot of question as to when and if they will ever be finished (or go bankrupt like many others have) and they have no beach front.

Although I agree that there are certainly cheaper alternatives if one wants to stay for several months, the location and security that goes with the Marriott name, and the amenities of both the Palm Beach area and the Marriott Stellaris and the forthcoming Ritz may be tempting. 

So, while I wouldn't make such an investment, I can see that someone who has a half million sitting around might consider it a good move. And, while the MF's are very high, they are easy to offset by buying half a dozen extra weeks than needed at the OC and booking weeks 51,52 and 7, which command high rental rates every year (these are Plat. Plus weeks at the SC but not at the OC).

Nevertheless, it puts an interesting twist on the resale market there. I wonder if it will effect an upward creep similar to the downslide that one of the Ebay seller's influx of a batch of Gold weeks had almost two years ago.

Ilene- Interesting...read your post; you posted while I was writing. I didn't realize that there were owners with that many weeks already, but I am not surprised given the historical rental rates, esp. with the OC not having Plat. Plus weeks. Nice return on investment actually, esp. at today's depressed prices (and I venture to guess that original pre-construction prices weren't that different years ago).


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## Luckybee (Jul 8, 2011)

m61376 said:


> Luckybee- While I respect your opinion, I have to say I am not sure I agree with you. For whatever reason, there are people who will only stay on Palm Beach, and I'm inclined to think that the Ritz coming virtually next door (on the other side of the Marriott Stellaris) may be generating more interest. I can see someone wanting to come down for the winter and not wanting to bother with ownership and being attracted to the Marriott name and location. The Aqua condos, while kinda next door on the other side, are the closest competition for someone really wanting to be in that location, and there has been a lot of question as to when and if they will ever be finished (or go bankrupt like many others have) and they have no beach front.
> 
> Although I agree that there are certainly cheaper alternatives if one wants to stay for several months, the location and security that goes with the Marriott name, and the amenities of both the Palm Beach area and the Marriott Stellaris and the forthcoming Ritz may be tempting.
> 
> ...



I hear what your saying ...but I dont think that the Aqua condos or either of the Marriott timeshares are anywhere near the same league as Oceania or indeed some of the other ones as well. Have you see the units or the buildings? Or any of the other new builds
Perhaps there are those that still prefer Palm Beach but for us it has just become too crowded and overbuilt now(and gawd help the beach area if Aqua does get built  ). But in terms of your comment about  "security" of the Marriott name....well dont get me started. You mean there are those who actually still think that there is security in a Marriott timeshare...really? ..you are kidding me right? ?
The only thing I was really trying to hit on was that Sue had indicated that one couldnt get into a comparable condo as a snowbird for anywhere near the same price as a multiple week purchase, and that isnt the case in the Aruba market. I suppose it was simply that in my mind when comparing the two options it was a no brainer that if one was looking for a residence aka a snowbird home, then the condo was the more logical purchase...but to each their own.Imho one could do much better in the condo market than at the Marriot at least in Aruba.

What is interesting though in terms of your comments to Ilene is that one can actually purchase units now at the OC in both seasons for less that the original pre construction prices so in that regard if one believes that the prices might go back up then perhaps it would be worth considering.


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## infamazz (Jul 8, 2011)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I'm really confused -- I've not been exposed to whatever the questionable practices are that Michelle is alleged to be associated with.   I've had limited historical contact with Michelle (2 phone calls, may be 18 months ago?) and nothing since then, but I am missing the compliance issues that warrant jeopardizing someone's reputation.
> 
> ...



I started the thread with a legitimate inquiry into whether anyone knew if Marriott was stepping up its use of ROFR. I posted Michelle's reply e-mail merely because I found the response to be somewhat rude, abrupt, and lacking any backing to her claims. I was satisfied and impressed with her response to this board, and now understand that it probably wasn't an overt attempt at rudeness - simply that she was probably very busy and working from an iPad, not sitting behind a computer.

I don't think there is anything clearly reportable that was posted by Michelle in this thread, or sent to me personally, and that wasn't where I was trying to go. I apologize if anyone interpreted my 2 posts as trying to start a witchhunt.

Hopefully everyone has learned something about the timeshare resale process - I know I have. I hope Michelle has learned something as well, namely, that an explanation goes a long way. If I had received half of what she explained in this thread, I would have been very satisfied, realized my mistake, and left it at that.


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## GregT (Jul 8, 2011)

infamazz said:


> I started the thread with a legitimate inquiry into whether anyone knew if Marriott was stepping up its use of ROFR. I posted Michelle's reply e-mail merely because I found the response to be somewhat rude, abrupt, and lacking any backing to her claims. I was satisfied and impressed with her response to this board, and now understand that it probably wasn't an overt attempt at rudeness - simply that she was probably very busy and working from an iPad, not sitting behind a computer.



Infamazz,

I agree completely -- the original thesis of the thread -- Marriott's ROFR activity has been (and will continue to be) very important for us all.  I'm glad you started the thread and I'm glad the group kicked around the factual issues around ROFR.   I will continue to be curious as to what unusual buying patterns we see at different resorts, and what is natural and what might be attributed to Marriott.

Best,

Greg


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## mdonato (Jul 8, 2011)

EducatedConsumer said:


> The correct form of governance, which one would expect someone who refers to themselves as a real estate agent, and a variety of other catchy phrases, is a Co-Operative Association, from which are derived Class A and Class B Shares in the Association.
> 
> I had two real estate attorneys take a look at the business tactics of the centerpiece here, and although premature, and pending final review, a variety of regulatory compliance issues arose. We will forward a list of regulatory compliance and consumer issues to Mr. Cochran for his agencies review.
> 
> ...


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## SueDonJ (Jul 8, 2011)

Luckybee, m - No doubt if you purchase a condo for snowbird use then your money is going to stretch further than if you purchase Marriott Weeks for snowbird use, especially if you get into the whole rent-what-you-don't-use business.  But my point was that for someone who doesn't WANT to get into that whole ownership/rental/private management deal, and has the discretionary income to play with, then buying the Marriott Weeks instead of a comparable condo isn't necessarily a bad deal.  It may not be "logical" as you put it, Luckybee, but I'm thinking that if you have that much play money sitting around then you don't have to be logical - you can use it to buy convenience if that's more important to you than a financial return.  I know if I had it and didn't need it to work for me, I wouldn't hesitate to buy convenience!  Ahh, it's nice to dream ...  

**********

I simply don't understand the direction that the rest of this thread has taken.  TUGgers can only benefit when folks with the knowledge of all aspects of timeshare ownership contribute.  But if we don't like something we hear, then our first inclination is to involve legal authorities?  Sheeesh.  It's really no wonder sometimes why timeshare agents/developers/managers don't participate on TUG.


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## mdonato (Jul 8, 2011)

*ROFR*

I mentioned earlier I would let everyone know if the next 1B plat unit I sold for $10,000 got through FROR.  I found out today it indeed did pass FROR.  Not sure what this means long term but interesting none the less. I had another broker friend tell me their 1B also was bought back around the same price point.  Since it was not my transaction I do not have the paperwork.  Starwood and Hilton have both been aggressively exercising on their units for months now.  This is my opinion: If I were Marriott I would start buying back as much as possible which would raise resale prices and close the gap between resale and developer pricing.  It is really an uneasy feeling when you are getting offers on inventory that used to sell for $55k and now goes for $20k.
Not to mention from a Marriot perspective what they get now for maint on the points is CRAZY compared to week owners.
I am an owner myself but I have not tried to use the points program.  I am curious though how it is working from availability perspective.


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## taffy19 (Jul 8, 2011)

Since I posted in this thread that we went to see a resale broker in Palm Desert, I was curious if his list that he gave us, was just advertising in general or his own office listings. I just spoke with him and the list of timeshare resales are their own listings.

He also told me that they will look for inventory on advertised listings just like Michelle or other sources if a buyer is looking for somewhere else. There seems to be interest for Marriott resales so the outlook isn't as bleak as I thought it was.  This is good for timeshare owners if we need or want to sell.

I am going to ask the same question to a resale broker on Maui who we spoke with when we were there. I want to know if they list their own listings or not.  Their office isn't open yet. We may just sell our Marriott as I don't like all the changes. The system is too complicated and far from owner friendly.  

I'll bet you that the fees, that we are saving now by enrolling, will start coming back slowly so there may not be many savings for being enrolled eventually if you do not use points. 



iconnections said:


> Please, don't wish that on us.     I hope that you are kidding.
> 
> Interesting thread. We were recently in Palm Desert and went to see a resale broker. I was under the impression first that it was the broker who posts here on TUG but it wasn't. It is still another broker and they have an office in the shopping center where we bought our groceries.
> 
> ...


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## hotcoffee (Jul 8, 2011)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> I'm really confused -- I've not been exposed to whatever the questionable practices are that Michelle is alleged to be associated with.   I've had limited historical contact with Michelle (2 phone calls, may be 18 months ago?) and nothing since then, but I am missing the compliance issues that warrant jeopardizing someone's reputation. . . .



Greg, I agree with your confusion.  I am also.  I do not know what EducatedConsumer was having an issue with.  I thought Michelle gave adequate answers to the complaints mentioned in this thread.

As far as the Aruba properties not being in the Trust: I had heard that last year.  So, that is accurate information to the best of my knowledge.  MFC in USVI can also not be put into the Trust either (or, could not last year when I was down there).


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## kjd (Jul 8, 2011)

*Condo mess*

It seems the subject has morphed into a debate of vacation use vs snowbird use as a side issue.  I would caution anyone considering buying a condo in Florida.  The condo market is in worse shape than the timeshare market.  In an unbelieveable turn of events these condo associations and their governmental counterparts (CD districts) are going broke all over the state.  
This can lead to a condo owner being responsible for the debts of these entities even though the condo owner is not in default.

There have been artilcles in the newspapers showing condo owners cutting the grass, cleaning the pool, cleaning restrooms and doing various other maintenance duties because the condo association is broke.  In buildings where there are a lot of forclosures owners who are not financially troubled have starting doing "strategic defaults" rather than pay out any more money to a failing property.  Condos here are cheap but they also come with a lot of problems.


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## SueDonJ (Jul 8, 2011)

kjd, that kind of a mess is exactly what I'm thinking snowbirds could avoid by purchasing a bunch of Marriott Weeks instead of a condo.  Of course doing so would invite the possibility of other messes if your heirs don't want to inherit MF obligations, the resort you choose ends up separating from Marriott's management, etc ...  But if you have enough play money and can figure out a way to divest the Weeks before your heirs are saddled with them, or you leave your heirs MORE play money to cover their obligations, then buying the convenience of Marriott Weeks still sounds like paradise to me.  I know some folks are very comfortable with renting out their Weeks but I have never wanted to be any kind of a landlord, and taking that risk with timeshares isn't anywhere near a slot on my To-Do List.  It would be even less a possibility if I had the kind of play money needed to comfortably be a timeshare snowbird.


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## byebye (Jul 8, 2011)

I've been trying to stay out of this thread for a few days and I just couldn't hold back anymore. I don't know and I don't care if Donato is or is not a broker or real estate agent or whatever. All I know is that its not her iPad that is making the mistakes - she is intentionally giving the same answer to anyone who is offering a price that she isn't happy with. I'm sure that if I offered her an amount that was a few $1000's less then she wouldn't have said to go get a garden view or come up or call me a jerk just because she miss-typed! As far as I'm concerned I wouldn't buy from her if all it cost me was the transfer fee! You may feel happy about the info that she is suppling you now but why don't you offer her something that she doesn't like!


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## floyddl (Jul 8, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> I mentioned earlier I would let everyone know if the next 1B plat unit I sold for $10,000 got through FROR.  I found out today it indeed did pass FROR.  Not sure what this means long term but interesting none the less. I had another broker friend tell me their 1B also was bought back around the same price point.  Since it was not my transaction I do not have the paperwork.  Starwood and Hilton have both been aggressively exercising on their units for months now.  This is my opinion: If I were Marriott I would start buying back as much as possible which would raise resale prices and close the gap between resale and developer pricing.  It is really an uneasy feeling when you are getting offers on inventory that used to sell for $55k and now goes for $20k.
> Not to mention from a Marriot perspective what they get now for maint on the points is CRAZY compared to week owners.
> I am an owner myself but I have not tried to use the points program.  I am curious though how it is working from availability perspective.



The ROFR you posted was at $9000.  Marriott doesn't want to buy back weeks or hold up resale values.  They no longer (practically) sell weeks so they aren't interested in holding up resale values.  They created the point system so they could sell low value weeks in their inventory at a fixed cost per point.  They want to get out of the timeshare business.  The reorganization and spinoff was the first step.


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## Luckybee (Jul 8, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Luckybee, m - No doubt if you purchase a condo for snowbird use then your money is going to stretch further than if you purchase Marriott Weeks for snowbird use, especially if you get into the whole rent-what-you-don't-use business.  But my point was that for someone who doesn't WANT to get into that whole ownership/rental/private management deal, and has the discretionary income to play with, then buying the Marriott Weeks instead of a comparable condo isn't necessarily a bad deal.  It may not be "logical" as you put it, Luckybee, but I'm thinking that if you have that much play money sitting around then you don't have to be logical - you can use it to buy convenience if that's more important to you than a financial return.  I know if I had it and didn't need it to work for me, I wouldn't hesitate to buy convenience!  Ahh, it's nice to dream ...
> 
> **********



I misunderstood you then ...I thought what you were saying is that one couldnt get into an  equivalent(or nicer) condo for the same or a better price, while currently one could buy one, never have to rent it out, and still be paying less than the multiple week scenario. I get the "palm Beach " thing(although I do now think that eagle beach is preferable...although its well on its way of being spoiled too  which is one of the main reasons dh and I have been holding off)) but  im not getting the "convenience" aspect. I know condo prices wont stay where they are too long but in the scenario dh and I have considered its still less for comparable properties even without the rental aspect. Pay your fees and taxes and just lock your doors when you're not there and nothing else to worry about....but I think Im digressing too much from the point of the op's original thread so I'll shhhh now...lol !


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## mdonato (Jul 8, 2011)

floyddl said:


> The ROFR you posted was at $9000.  Marriott doesn't want to buy back weeks or hold up resale values.  They no longer (practically) sell weeks so they aren't interested in holding up resale values.  They created the point system so they could sell low value weeks in their inventory at a fixed cost per point.  They want to get out of the timeshare business.  The reorganization and spinoff was the first step.



I appreciate your opinion but I dont think Marriott wants to get out of the timeshare business myself.  I do agree though that is one of the reasons why Marriott made the point system was to sell low value weeks.  I think Marriott Inter'l has different goals then the Vacation Club.  I think in the long run it should be a good thing.  Of course I tend to be a glass is half full type person.  I was also suggesting that it would be a good idea if Marriott did exercise more to close the gap it would benefit them.  Because Marriott does not for the most part exercise I feel that it hurts the integrity of the whole program.  Again just my opinion.


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## dioxide45 (Jul 8, 2011)

spiker said:


> I've been trying to stay out of this thread for a few days and I just couldn't hold back anymore. I don't know and I don't care if Donato is or is not a broker or real estate agent or whatever. All I know is that its not her iPad that is making the mistakes - she is intentionally giving the same answer to anyone who is offering a price that she isn't happy with. I'm sure that if I offered her an amount that was a few $1000's less then she wouldn't have said to go get a garden view or come up or call me a jerk just because she miss-typed! As far as I'm concerned I wouldn't buy from her if all it cost me was the transfer fee! You may feel happy about the info that she is suppling you now but why don't you offer her something that she doesn't like!



I agree to  degree. If it were a developer salesperson using the ROFR card, we would all scoff. It shouldn't be any different with a private broker. In the end it is either to negotiate a better price, or get rid of the tire kickers that would only be a waste of time.

I do however agree with Greg on this that the thread did go over the line at one point. It was leading toward character assassination, which I would agree is unfair.


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## Alaskaboy (Jul 9, 2011)

SpikeMauler said:


> I negotiated with Michelle a few years ago when I was looking to purchase a MFC resale week. The original asking price was $24,000. I negotiated the price down to $17,000 but she couldn't match a $15,000 offer I had from another broker. That being said I  liked her and told her I wished she would have been able to match that price. She seemed very nice and easy to do business with. She never fed me any B.S. and seemed honest. Then again, what do you really know about anybody from a few phone calls...



I was pretty green when I bought Marriott Myrtle Beach Oceanwatch from her a year ago. Nevertheless, she did do a good job. She offered the price I wanted to the seller, they refused.  She then asked me if it would be O.K. for her to call different sellers to see if they would match my offer.  I would deal with her again.


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## laurac260 (Jul 11, 2011)

TimeshareMD said:


> I appreciate your opinion but I dont think Marriott wants to get out of the timeshare business myself.  I do agree though that is one of the reasons why Marriott made the point system was to sell low value weeks.  I think Marriott Inter'l has different goals then the Vacation Club.  I think in the long run it should be a good thing.  Of course I tend to be a glass is half full type person.  I was also suggesting that it would be a good idea if Marriott did exercise more to close the gap it would benefit them.  Because Marriott does not for the most part exercise I feel that it hurts the integrity of the whole program.  Again just my opinion.



Michelle,  haven't talked to you since I quit facebook last summer.  How have you been?  I think it's kind of crappy the way you have been getting attacked on this board.  Good job for holding your own in such a professional, respectable way.  I'm not sure I would be able to bite my tongue quite as well.  

Sincerely,

Laura C. 
Cincinnati, OH


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## mdonato (Jul 11, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> Michelle,  haven't talked to you since I quit facebook last summer.  How have you been?  I think it's kind of crappy the way you have been getting attacked on this board.  Good job for holding your own in such a professional, respectable way.  I'm not sure I would be able to bite my tongue quite as well.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ...



Thanks Laura you are kind.


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