# Anyone with experience with Hilton Condo-Hotels?



## night0wl (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey All,

While this isn't your traditional Hilton HGVC discussion, I was wondering if anyone has experience with ownership in one of Hiltons Condo-hotel projects in Florida.  Either the Hilton Bentley or (more more importantly to me) the Q-Club on Fort Lauderdale Beach.

It appears as though pricing has just absolutely collapsed for the Q-Club and, as I live in Fort Lauderdale, I was thinking of buy a studio or 1 bedroom unit in the $150k - $180k range.  I understand that there are 2 modes of operating.  

The first is just a standard condo...where you are entitled to full usage of your condo and the amenities of the building (paying for services of spa, etc).  You have to pay for HOA monthly as you would in any other condo complex (very high HOA for the square footage involved...but its a luxury building and only 2 years old right on Fort Lauderdale Beach).  

The other mode is putting your unit into the Hotel program.  I guess the program mandates a 50/50 split on "hotel" night revenues while ownership picks up costs like utilities.  Also, you're allowed 120 nights a year of ownership time...plus discounts on additional nights.  Details are very skim, but here is one realtor who posted actual statements from some client:

http://hiltonfortlauderdalecondos.com/hilton_condo_income_statements.html

Basically, my wife and I were looking to take advantage of the condo market in Florida to pick up a nice beach place and rent it out on VRBO when not using it.  But the selection of modern units seems a bit pricey.  This program appealed to us because we'd be able to use our beach place midweek/year round...and then go to our house which is only a few miles in-land of the hotel.  

The drawbacks of this are many, I'm sure...but help me articulate.  The location is a bit north of Las Olas...and you do have to cross a busy road to get to the actual beach itself.  Also, this part of the beach is pretty commercialized, so its not like quiet time is possible (roar of cars behind you).  Our other beach condos we're evaluating have exclusive access to the beach...so its much quieter.  

Anway please discuss if you have feedback. Moderators, if this is inappropriate for TUG, please let me know or kill the thread outright.

Thanks!

--night0wl


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## sjuhawk_jd (Aug 16, 2010)

High condos fees will probably negate any chances of making rental income. 

In slow economy, top hotels are giving amazing deals, including the benefits to acquire loyalty program points, free nights after certain stays etc. You will be competing against those deals. 

Another option might be to acquire a less luxurious condo (with minimum dues) near a popular quiter beach and go after the rental market created by snow-birds as well as family summer rentals.


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## night0wl (Aug 16, 2010)

sjuhawk_jd said:


> High condos fees will probably negate any chances of making rental income.
> 
> In slow economy, top hotels are giving amazing deals, including the benefits to acquire loyalty program points, free nights after certain stays etc. You will be competing against those deals.
> 
> Another option might be to acquire a less luxurious condo (with minimum dues) near a popular quiter beach and go after the rental market created by snow-birds as well as family summer rentals.



I've thought about a less luxury oriented condo, but in Florida, anything on the water has ridiculous HOA dues because of windstorm insurance.  Modern buildings actually fare better due to window upgrades and the fact that they're designed for Cat3/4/5 standards.  Older buildings would sock you with HOA special assessments bigtime...I've even seen buildings CONDEMNED after the 2005 hurricane season.  

Agreed...HOA is a big concern.  The question is where hotel rates go in the future.  Fort Lauderdale beach has a lot of new supply of high end hotels.  There's a new Westin (remodel), a new Ritz Carlton, a new Hilton, a brand new W...rates right now (deep offseason) is $170 a night.  I cannot find occupancy/vacancy rates published on the web anywhere.

My aim is *not* income...but subsiding my purchase of a condo.  The hope being that HOA fees increase at less than inflation such that in 10-15 years, they're very manageable WITHOUT the unit being in the rental program.

Also, anyone know how often COndo hotels force you to remodel your unit?  Thats effectively a special assessment.


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 16, 2010)

Nightowl,

Here are some previous Tug threads on Condo-Hotels:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42241

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40089

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98772


I think I would be wary.  You probably know the new Trump property on A1A is in deep financial trouble. So while there's a lot of new development on that strip - there's also a lot of financial turmoil.

Richard


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## myip (Aug 17, 2010)

couple of things to consider:

1.  You may not be able to finance it since it is condotel.  
2.  It can be Hilton today and later on, it can be drop - if Hilton or HOA decide not use Hilton to mange it.
3.  Most hotel renovates the room every 5-7 years. - you need to check whether management fees include it or set aside some money for renovation.  Renovation can cause 15K and up.
4.  How is rental income allocate against the owner in the program.  THis is important.  Is it in a share pool and divide it base on the % interest.  Is it allocate base on # of night your unit rented.  Some units are more desirable to rent than other.

The price is low now.  It also make me consider to buy it.


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## night0wl (Aug 18, 2010)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Nightowl,
> 
> Here are some previous Tug threads on Condo-Hotels:
> 
> ...




Yep...I drive by Trumps empty palace every day.  The building seems to be about 90% complete, but unbelievable, halted for years now.  Such a shame...great location.

I guess a lot of the threads seem to be around the peak of the RE market...not the trought we're in now.  If one can pick up at low cost or get owner finance, I wonder if the numbers get close to break even.


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