# Buy direct or resale ?



## tcm2362 (Jan 26, 2019)

I have looked through the forums and I think I'm getting the answer I need, but figured I'd ask specifically.    We are considering buying into HGV.   For example, say we purchased 7000 to 9000 points at one of the Orlando properties, would we get the same benefits if we purchase resale as we would if buying directly?   In other words - same flexibility in scheduling our vacations, same extended benefits such as RCI, reduced prices on other Hilton hotels and cruises, etc.   I think I've read from some of the forums that one would be lacking sense to purchase directly vs. resale.


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## cindyc (Jan 26, 2019)

Buying resale is definitely the way to go.  With HGVC there is no real difference in purchasing a "used" or "resale" property, it is literally as good as "new" or "developer purchased."  I think the only difference is if you buy resale you cannot use those points to count toward Elite Status with HGVC.  More expert people will chime in and either confirm or correct me.


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## brp (Jan 26, 2019)

That is correct, and the value of Elite Status is considered by those who actually remember what it is to be minimal 

While other systems do have perks reductions for resale, not so with HGVC at this point.

Cheers.


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## tcm2362 (Jan 26, 2019)

Thank you both so much.    And the whole thing about handing it down to heirs still works too, I presume?

one more question...."asking for a friend"......say someone was foolish enough to buy direct (not naming names), and the rescind period has passed by a day or so, but there were extenuating circumstances for two of the days in the period.....would one fooolish person be able to get out of the deal?


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## Talent312 (Jan 26, 2019)

tcm2362 said:


> Thank you both so much.    And the whole thing about handing it down to heirs still works too, I presume?



As real estate, you can do anything with it that you can do with a house.
Only Hilton Club NY is "RTU" (right to use) with a fixed term.



> One more question... "asking for a friend"... Say someone was foolish enough to buy direct (not naming names), and the rescind period has passed by a day or so, but there were extenuating circumstances for two of the days in the period... Would one foolish person be able to get out of the deal?



No bloody likely.
State laws set the rescission period and they don't allow for "extenuating circumstances."
The postmark date is the effective date, but postal meters cannot back-date mail. Sorry.

OTOH, HGVC reportedly once allowed a late rescission with a really good sob story.
But it's gotta be really good, and verifiable. "My dog died," prolly won't cut it.

.


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## GT75 (Jan 26, 2019)

tcm2362 said:


> Thank you both so much. And the whole thing about handing it down to heirs still works too, I presume?



Welcome to TUG.    The answer is yes.

I agree with the answers you have already been given.     Basically, HGVC treats their owners (both direct and resales) very well.   As already stated, about the only difference (which is very minimal) is that a resale purchase doesn't could toward elite levels.    Everything else is the same between the two.


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## tcm2362 (Jan 26, 2019)

Well the dog didn't eat it, but we were determined to cancel on the rescind date but just happened to be on the Hawaiian airlines flight where the crew member died this week.   It obviously altered our return home by several hours, and to a different airport from where we originally departed.   It made it impossible to act prior to midnight on the last rescind date.    Sending them a certified letter ASAP with the explanation and proof of the situation.  Hopefully that will be enough.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 26, 2019)

"reduced prices on other Hilton hotels and cruises"  just a comment about this.  

You do not receive reduced prices on Hilton hotels.  They do offer a HGVC member cruises but it is not a good use of points generally, it is better to use your HGVC points within HGVC.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 26, 2019)

tcm2362 said:


> Well the dog didn't eat it, but we were determined to cancel on the rescind date but just happened to be on the Hawaiian airlines flight where the crew member died this week.   It obviously altered our return home by several hours, and to a different airport from where we originally departed.   It made it impossible to act prior to midnight on the last rescind date.    Sending them a certified letter ASAP with the explanation and proof of the situation.  Hopefully that will be enough.



Sorry to hear about this. I heard about this in the news. Since this is a publicly recognized event, I think it is worth fighting. Send your notice now. Don't delay.


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## tcm2362 (Jan 26, 2019)

Thank you - I'm going to get a faxed letter out in the a.m. and send hard copy via USPS on Monday a.m.    I've also already written to Hawaiia state office for consumer protection to alert them as to our intent


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## tcm2362 (Jan 29, 2019)

Just to let you all know - they apparently DID take our travel nightmare into consideration post-rescind period.   Faxed letters one and two days after rescission deadline passed last Friday, mailed packet on Sunday, and emailed them first thing Monday morning.    Got an email response from them by about 2 p.m. Hawaii time that we can expect a full refund of our deposit with 10 to 15 business days.


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## GT75 (Jan 29, 2019)

tcm2362 said:


> expect a full refund of our deposit



Wonderful news.


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## Panina (Jan 29, 2019)

tcm2362 said:


> Just to let you all know - they apparently DID take our travel nightmare into consideration post-rescind period.   Faxed letters one and two days after rescission deadline passed last Friday, mailed packet on Sunday, and emailed them first thing Monday morning.    Got an email response from them by about 2 p.m. Hawaii time that we can expect a full refund of our deposit with 10 to 15 business days.


Very nice to hear.   to HGVC for doing what’s right.  I wonder how many other chains would have done this.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 29, 2019)

Glad this ended well. Although the OP would have prevailed in court, many brands would fight it or ignore in the hopes the OP would give up. Makes me feel good about owning HGVC because there is a sense of fairness.


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## brp (Jan 29, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Glad this ended well. Although the OP would have prevailed in court, many brands would fight it or ignore in the hopes the OP would give up. Makes me feel good about owning HGVC because there is a sense of fairness.



Just curious- why do you feel that the OP would have prevailed if this had gone to court (glad it didn't and that HGVC did an honorable thing here)? The argument could be made that waiting until the last day, with flights planned (which could have had delays/cancellations for any number of reasons) was not something that HGVC would have to excuse given the length of the recission period.

Again, not disagreeing at all with how this was handled, but just not sure I agree that, from a completely legal standpoint, the OP would have prevailed.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 29, 2019)

I can see your argument. However there is nothing that indicates that they didn't intend to mail within the rescission period in good faith.

There could have been circumstances in which they couldn't get to a post office within the rescission period while in HI (holidays, lack of transportation)
The flight delay was beyond normal expectations to a new airport and a different city.
The flight delay/event most likely diverted their attention.
They may not have had access to a computer/paper/printer/envelopes (although handwritten note is acceptable).
The OP was lucky.

The lesson here is better to be safe and mail early while on vacation. Better yet. Save time and heartache and don't sign anything. You can always buy later if you change your mind.


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## dayooper (Jan 29, 2019)

tcm2362 said:


> Just to let you all know - they apparently DID take our travel nightmare into consideration post-rescind period.   Faxed letters one and two days after rescission deadline passed last Friday, mailed packet on Sunday, and emailed them first thing Monday morning.    Got an email response from them by about 2 p.m. Hawaii time that we can expect a full refund of our deposit with 10 to 15 business days.



Great News! Was expecting HGVC to draw this out. As said above, it makes me feel better about my purchase! Wastegate would have fought it until the bitter end. HGVC is a great product. Research the system, explore the resorts and purchase resale with confidence. Congrats and good luck!


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## brp (Jan 29, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I can see your argument. However there is nothing that indicates that they didn't intend to mail within the rescission period in good faith.
> 
> There could have been circumstances in which they couldn't get to a post office within the rescission period while in HI (holidays, lack of transportation)
> The flight delay was beyond normal expectations to a new airport and a different city.
> ...



All good points. I just don't know that a court/jury would have found HGVC liable for a delay beyond the recission period for any of the conditions listed above.

Cheers.


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## Remy (Jan 29, 2019)

HGVC went with the spirit of the rules. Good on them.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 29, 2019)

brp said:


> All good points. I just don't know that a court/jury would have found HGVC liable for a delay beyond the recission period for any of the conditions listed above.
> 
> Cheers.



It is certainly possible because the case is not 100%. However taking the high road earned them much more in terms of customer sat.  And the OP is considering another purchase. Even though it will be resale it will still buoy the HGVC system to have a satisfied owner paying maintenance fees who may spread goodwill instead of trying to bail and badmouth at every turn.


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## Talent312 (Jan 29, 2019)

brp said:


> Just not sure I agree that, from a completely legal standpoint, the OP would have prevailed.



I concur. This would be a case of statutory interpretation and contract, not equity, so I doubt a judge would base a decision on what the OP says he intended to do. I see the judge saying, "Delays in air travel are the norm these days and to be expected. The courts cannot start writing exceptions for not acting into the statute."

OTOH, HGVC did the right thing and even let him know of their decision.
I daresay, all he would've gotten from other TS operators is dead silence.
.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 29, 2019)

Talent312 said:


> I see the judge saying, "Delays in air travel are the norm these days and to be expected. The courts cannot start writing exceptions for not acting into the statute."



According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS):

The industry average delay is 66 minutes with Hawaiian at 45 minutes.

The kind of delay the OP experienced exponentially exceeded the industry standard with an emergency diversion to SFO and rebooking delays to alternative flights by a day or more.  This was such a rare event that it made national news; it could not have been reasonably anticipated. It would be like saying, "The aircraft could crash" so I will plan to say all my goodbyes and pay all of my bills before I step on the plane even though they are not due until I return.


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## brp (Jan 29, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS):
> 
> The industry average delay is 66 minutes with Hawaiian at 45 minutes.
> 
> The kind of delay the OP experienced exponentially exceeded the industry standard with an emergency diversion to SFO and rebooking delays to alternative flights by a day or more.  This was such a rare event that it made national news; it could not have been reasonably anticipated. It would be like saying, "The aircraft could crash" so I will plan to say all my goodbyes and pay all of my bills before I step on the plane even though they are not due until I return.



While both your statement about the average delay is likely true (no reason to doubt you ) and this particular event is, indeed, very unique, the average is just an average, after all. Substantial delays and cancellations requiring rebooking- possibly even to another day- are certainly common enough not to constitute am exceptional circumstance, IMO. And certainly far more likely than a crash.

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 29, 2019)

How often has a delay like this happened to you before? In all of my years of flying I have experienced short delays up to 4 hours. Infrequently longer when there was a predicted storm forecast (if OP were cutting it that close I would agree with your argument), but have never been diverted to another airport creating more than a day delay with national news attention when there was no storm on the horizon. Plus no one has died on the plane (thank goodness!)


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## brp (Jan 29, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> How often has a delay like this happened to you before? In all of my years of flying I have experienced short delays up to 4 hours. Infrequently longer when there was a predicted storm forecast (if OP were cutting it that close I would agree with your argument), but have never been diverted to another airport creating more than a day delay with national news attention when there was no storm on the horizon. Plus no one has died on the plane (thank goodness!)



We have had flight cancellations requiring either changing to a different airport, finding another routing or going on a different day maybe half a dozen or so times. Usually involves aircraft mechanical issues and not death. It's about the delay, and not the cause or the national news. And cancellations are not at all uncommon.

Anyway, this is neither here nor there and we can agree to disagree about how a court might have rules. HGVC did the right thing, making this all moot 

Cheers.


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## tcm2362 (Jan 29, 2019)

I think it helped that I sent a formal letter just with the facts that we were exercising our right to rescind, wanted a refund and no further charges hereafter.   Then I crafted a decent secondary letter that explained step by step what we experienced over a 24 hour or so period and how it impacted our ability to cancel things by midnight last Friday.   The fact that I did this immediately the day after we returned and didn't try to do it a week or so later certainly helped, but I also give them a ton of credit for making it so smooth.   Assuming they received our email between 8 and 9 a.m. yesterday (Monday) morning. they responded within 5 to 6 hours in the manner we were hoping.    That says alot about the company and we will continue to pursue resale market now.    We were getting 7000 points at HGV Sea World annually, with 21,000 bonus points added on to be used over 3 years....$43K.     Pretty certain from perusing these boards the last several days that we can do MUCH MUCH better.


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## GT75 (Jan 29, 2019)

tcm2362 said:


> We were getting 7000 points at HGV Sea World annually, with 21,000 bonus points added on to be used over 3 years....$43K. Pretty certain from perusing these boards the last several days that we can do MUCH MUCH better.



You certainly can.   You should be able to purchase a resale for around $7000 (obviously with no bonus points).   This would be the rule-of-thumb price for 2-Bd Platinum season and not the 3-Bd plus Gold season.


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## dayooper (Jan 29, 2019)

GT75 said:


> You certainly can.   You should be able to purchase a resale for around $7000 (obviously with no bonus points).   This would be the rule-of-thumb price for 2-Bd Platinum season and not the 3-Bd plus Gold season.



Yup, you can get better MF’s than Sea World too. Vegas is always a great buy.


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## GT75 (Jan 29, 2019)

dayooper said:


> Yup, you can get better MF’s than Sea World too. Vegas is always a great buy.



My suggestion to the OP is to take your time and research what is best for you.     There isn't a rush to purchase anything.    Resales will always be available.


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## Nomad420 (Jan 30, 2019)

Talent312 said:


> As real estate, you can do anything with it that you can do with a house.
> Only Hilton Club NY is "RTU" (right to use) with a fixed term.
> .


I know off topic for this thread but curious about the "RTU" issue.  Being an owner at HVNY I was told (believe me I relize that essentially means nothing) I could pass it on to my heirs.  Do you know of the restriction at HCNY regarding this.  I already have a meeting set up to speak with HGVC sales about misinformation I was given at the time of purchase.


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## PigsDad (Jan 30, 2019)

Nomad420 said:


> I know off topic for this thread but curious about the "RTU" issue.  Being an owner at HVNY I was told (believe me I relize that essentially means nothing) I could pass it on to my heirs.  Do you know of the restriction at HCNY regarding this.  I already have a meeting set up to speak with HGVC sales about misinformation I was given at the time of purchase.


I believe Talent312 is at least partially mistaken here.  HCNY _used to be_ an RTU property, but a few years back, they went through a conversion process, buying up many of the old RTU contracts and reselling them as new deeded contracts.  There may be a few RTU contracts still around, but any new purchase within the last few years are perpetual deeds (AFAIK) and can be passed on to heirs, sold, etc. -- just like any other HGVC deed.

Kurt


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## tombanjo (Jan 30, 2019)

I just bought and I wondered if there is a way to tell. Nothing on the deed had a date like 2032 or anything like that.


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## Magus (Jan 31, 2019)

I had 3 flights cancelled and moved to a different day last year and nearly had a fourth from weather. Very happy for OP HGV will be refunding!


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 31, 2019)

Magus said:


> I had 3 flights cancelled and moved to a different day last year and nearly had a fourth from weather. Very happy for OP HGV will be refunding!



Were these three changes while you were at the airport? or weeks prior in which you could change your plans?


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## Magus (Jan 31, 2019)

All 3 at the airport, cancelled for maintenance. Two from LGA to CLT and one from MSP to CLT.


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## Talent312 (Jan 31, 2019)

PigsDad said:


> I believe Talent312 is at least partially mistaken here...



Now that you mention it PD, my fuzzy memory recalls that as well.
Also, I didn't mean to imply that RTU units could not be willed, inherited or sold.
And a standard deed with no termination, is just like any other real estate, not RTU.
.


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## CalGalTraveler (Jan 31, 2019)

Magus said:


> I had 3 flights cancelled and moved to a different day last year and nearly had a fourth from weather. Very happy for OP HGV will be refunding!



Wow. Lightening strikes twice. What airline?


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## brp (Jan 31, 2019)

Magus said:


> All 3 at the airport, cancelled for maintenance. Two from LGA to CLT and one from MSP to CLT.



Clearly you are not meant to go to Charlotte. 

Was this AA, presumably?

Cheers.


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## Magus (Feb 2, 2019)

Yes AA all three, although our CEO had same issue 2x with delta last year as well. We are based in CLT so hard to avoid American! I fly quite a bit domestically for work though


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