# Gov. Ige urges visitors not to come to Hawaii through the end of October



## PamMo (Aug 24, 2021)

Restrictions haven't been put in place yet, but it's looking more and more likely.









						Hawaii Gov. David Ige urges tourists to stay home amid COVID surge: 'Now is not the time to visit the islands'
					

Hawaii Gov. David Ige on Monday urged tourists not to visit the popular destination through October due to a surge in COVID-19 cases in the state.



					www.usatoday.com
				












						Governor to visitors: Stay away as Hawaii sees surge in COVID cases, hospitalizations
					

He also said that a lockdown “is on the table” if infection rates don’t decline.




					www.hawaiinewsnow.com
				




_By HNN Staff_​_Published: Aug. 23, 2021 at 6:48 PM CDT|Updated: 10 hours ago_​​_HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow) - The governor is urging visitors to reschedule upcoming travel to Hawaii as the state struggles to respond to a COVID surge that’s threatening to overwhelm hospitals._​​_He also said that a lockdown “is on the table” if infection rates don’t decline._​​_“It is not a good time to travel to the islands. I encourage everyone to restrict and curtail travel to Hawaii,” Gov. David Ige said, at a news conference Monday. “Is a lockdown on the table? Yes, it would be if the number of cases continues to grow exponentially as it has in the last 10 weeks ... then we will have to take action to limit and ensure that the hospitals aren’t overrun.”_​​_He added that he doesn’t have a specific trigger for when a stay-at-home might be imposed._​


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 24, 2021)

PamMo said:


> Restrictions haven't been put in place yet, but it's looking more and more likely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I must ask this question.  If the visitors only account for 2% of those that are testing positive for Covid19.  Then how visitors refraining from coming to Hawaii going to help the situation?  Is there something hidden in the testing that the statistics are based  that show that visitors are only accounting for 2% of the cases.  Since tourists have mostly been vaccinated if the get Corid19 they get a mild case.  If tourists don't go to the doctor and don't get tested since they are on vacation and just take over the counter medication to get throught the symptoms, there are not counted.  However, since you can catch and spread the virus even if you are vacinated, you can bring the virus, catch the virus, and spread the virus.


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## HGVC Lover (Aug 24, 2021)

Tamaradarann said:


> I must ask this question.  If the visitors only account for 2% of those that are testing positive for Covid19.  Then how visitors refraining from coming to Hawaii going to help the situation?  Is there something hidden in the testing that the statistics are based  that show that visitors are only accounting for 2% of the cases.  Since tourists have mostly been vaccinated if the get Corid19 they get a mild case.  If tourists don't go to the doctor and don't get tested since they are on vacation and just take over the counter medication to get throught the symptoms, there are not counted.  However, since you can catch and spread the virus even if you are vacinated, you can bring the virus, catch the virus, and spread the virus.



I do not think the issue is who is spreading the virus.  We have been on Hawaii Island for 2 months and were supposed to stay a month longer but are leaving this week mainly because the hospitals on this island are not able to handle routine emergencies because they are full of Covid patients.  Their health care system is becoming stressed and they are trying to stop the spread of the Delta variant which is what is causing the rise in cases, not necessarily who.  The doctors have announced here if you have a heart attack, are in a serious car accident, or get seriously injured at the beach or in the water that treatment would be very limited based on their ICU levels now on Hawaii Island.  Hundreds of traveling nurses starting arriving yesterday in the islands to help with the medical situation and hospitals filling-up.

If nothing is done or nothing changes they are expected to have 3,700 cases a day by mid-October.  One of the reasons the Ironman World championship was rescheduled from October of this year until hopefully February 2022.  If they decide to close beaches, parks, museums and other things there might not be much for tourists to do here.


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## DeniseM (Aug 24, 2021)

Friendly Reminder: If you want to get into an indepth discussion of COVID, please use the *COVID Forum*, because we try to keep the Hawaii Forum conflict free and only discuss COVID as a travel issue.

*Hawaii Discussion on the COVID Forum:* https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/h...-is-not-the-time-to-visit-the-islands.324297/


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## jackio (Aug 24, 2021)

I am due to fly into HNL on 10/18.  I am concerned that the island will further reduce capacities and we will be shut out of things.


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## bnoble (Aug 24, 2021)

I think that's possible. I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation, but maybe I'd think about what the "go/no-go" threshold was for me, personally.


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## Steve Fatula (Aug 24, 2021)

I would probably comply with the request to reschedule if I wasn't leaving in a couple days. I also have others coming to stay with us. The hospital situation is worrisome for us older folks.


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## burg1121 (Aug 24, 2021)

due to go to lih saturday


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## linsj (Aug 24, 2021)

I'm scheduled to go to Oahu the first week in November, and now I'm starting to think about cancelling--again. Sigh.


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## elaine (Aug 24, 2021)

we cancelled early Oct.


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## chellej (Aug 24, 2021)

We have 2 weeks on Maui starting off Oct 23rd.....just monitoring for now...have already cancelled 3 times....really don't want to cancel again.


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## lynne (Aug 24, 2021)

UH pandemic modelers: Oahu, Big Island in ‘eye’ of COVID hurricane
					

Epidemiologists say the Delta variant has already taken over Maui County, which has the lowest vaccination rate in the state at just 56%.




					www.hawaiinewsnow.com


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 25, 2021)

HGVC Lover said:


> I do not think the issue is who is spreading the virus.  We have been on Hawaii Island for 2 months and were supposed to stay a month longer but are leaving this week mainly because the hospitals on this island are not able to handle routine emergencies because they are full of Covid patients.  Their health care system is becoming stressed and they are trying to stop the spread of the Delta variant which is what is causing the rise in cases, not necessarily who.  The doctors have announced here if you have a heart attack, are in a serious car accident, or get seriously injured at the beach or in the water that treatment would be very limited based on their ICU levels now on Hawaii Island.  Hundreds of traveling nurses starting arriving yesterday in the islands to help with the medical situation and hospitals filling-up.
> 
> If nothing is done or nothing changes they are expected to have 3,700 cases a day by mid-October.  One of the reasons the Ironman World championship was rescheduled from October of this year until hopefully February 2022.  If they decide to close beaches, parks, museums and other things there might not be much for tourists to do here.



That is a good answer.  It would have been helpful if the Governor in his annoucement explained it like you did.  Your explanation made it sound like tourists are always welcome, however, do to the number of cases of  the virus we can offer you very limited medical, recreational, and restauants services, so perhaps it is better that you come another time.


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## alwysonvac (Aug 25, 2021)

Maui County asks residents, tourists to curb non-essential activities for 21 days
					

The county is working with Ige on new rules. Victorino is also asking employers to revert to working from home.




					www.hawaiinewsnow.com


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## HGVC Lover (Aug 25, 2021)

Tamaradarann said:


> That is a good answer.  It would have been helpful if the Governor in his annoucement explained it like you did.  Your explanation made it sound like tourists are always welcome, however, do to the number of cases of  the virus we can offer you very limited medical, recreational, and restauants services, so perhaps it is better that you come another time.



From everything that we are hearing and reading in the press it looks like restrictions of some kind are definitely coming.  On a side note, last night on the local state news there was a number of comments from local residents who feel the governor is pointing the finger at residents for the spread of the Delta variant and giving tourists a free pass......in a way I could see their point of view because he is being very vague in his approach to the increasing medical crisis.....plus the increase in cases does coincide with the loser travel restrictions that were lifted on July 8, 2021.......things have definitely changed here though.....aloha


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 25, 2021)

HGVC Lover said:


> From everything that we are hearing and reading in the press it looks like restrictions of some kind are definitely coming.  On a side note, last night on the local state news there was a number of comments from local residents who feel the governor is pointing the finger at residents for the spread of the Delta variant and giving tourists a free pass......in a way I could see their point of view because he is being very vague in his approach to the increasing medical crisis.....plus the increase in cases does coincide with the loser travel restrictions that were lifted on July 8, 2021.......things have definitely changed here though.....aloha



We have plans to come on September 30th and stay for many months so we have been looking at the numbers daily very closely.   We will be staying in a timeshare for part of the time and a Condo that we own the rest of the time as soon as we get some work done there.  We don't need touristy stuff to do and we don't need restauants, however, we do need medical care if we get sick.  We don't know what to do right now.  Our hearts say go, the concern about our health says no.   

The untested tourist is a big question in my mind whether they are vacinated or not since even vaccinated people can get and spread the virus.   I have been thinking and saying here on TUG that as soon as the younger people and their kids who are less concerned about getting the virus stop coming the numbers of tourists will go down and the number of cases will go down.  My reasoning is that there will be less people bringing the virus, catching the virus and spreading the virus as well as the people that will be coming will be without kids and will will tend to be older and more cautious about getting and spreading the virus.   I can't find anyone who agrees with me about this but if I am correct then I believe we will be coming on September 30th.


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## Henry M. (Aug 25, 2021)

When I was in Maui early in the year, the vast majority of cases there were in Kahului, particularly in some of the housing projects. I don't know if that is still the case. However, it sounds from listening to the governor that indeed most of the spread is not from tourists but from locals going off-island and coming back to quarantine at home rather than test before getting on the plane to come back.

Where I live, in Texas, the vast majority of hospital cases are unvaccinated people. Those vaccinated can still get the disease, but usually don't require hospital care.

If I had my own place in Hawaii, I would not be worried about going over to stay there. I'd have control of where I go and what I do, and I don't really fear going out to the beach or most outdoor locations, where there is usually a strong breeze.  I have gone to Maui so many times, that I no longer need to do any of the touristy activities. I don't even have any issue with my WKORV timeshares. I felt perfectly safe when I spent three months there over the Christmas break. I was careful and all, but didn't feel more threatened than at home. In fact, I wish I did have a place to go stay at right now.

Now if I had known medical issues that could potentially require hospital care, I might not leave my own home for a while. Medical care there was already different than on the mainland even before the pandemic. The very first time we went to Maui in the late 90's, my son got appendicitis and had to be operated in Maui Memorial. It was better than most other island locations, but not quite what I'm used to at home. Most tropical paradises suffer from this issue.


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## slip (Aug 25, 2021)

Tamaradarann said:


> We have plans to come on September 30th and stay for many months so we have been looking at the numbers daily very closely.   We will be staying in a timeshare for part of the time and a Condo that we own the rest of the time as soon as we get some work done there.  We don't need touristy stuff to do and we don't need restauants, however, we do need medical care if we get sick.  We don't know what to do right now.  Our hearts say go, the concern about our health says no.
> 
> The untested tourist is a big question in my mind whether they are vacinated or not since even vaccinated people can get and spread the virus.   I have been thinking and saying here on TUG that as soon as the younger people and their kids who are less concerned about getting the virus stop coming the numbers of tourists will go down and the number of cases will go down.  My reasoning is that there will be less people bringing the virus, catching the virus and spreading the virus as well as the people that will be coming will be without kids and will will tend to be older and more cautious about getting and spreading the virus.   I can't find anyone who agrees with me about this but if I am correct then I believe we will be coming on September 30th.



The total passenger count has already went down and I believe it will go down more with the Governors request for people not to come. The decline is following the annual decline around this time of year. The screen below Is from the Hawaii Statistics website.


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## zentraveler (Aug 25, 2021)

Henry M. said:


> When I was in Maui early in the year, the vast majority of cases there were in Kahului, particularly in some of the housing projects. I don't know if that is still the case. However, it sounds from listening to the governor that indeed most of the spread is not from tourists but from locals going off-island and coming back to quarantine at home rather than test before getting on the plane to come back.
> 
> Where I live, in Texas, the vast majority of hospital cases are unvaccinated people. Those vaccinated can still get the disease, but usually don't require hospital care.
> 
> ...



I sat next to a man on the plane on the way over who had lived on Maui for 30 years and now lives in Las Vegas (but travels back to Maui every 6-8 weeks). Apparently Las Vegas is a very popular destination for islanders and no real testing or vaccines needed for residents returning from the mainland.

Would seem prudent to me to have both residents and visitors need a negative test (regardless of vaccine status) now. A real pain, yes, but Hawaii did so well for such a long time and a test is not hard to get.


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## slip (Aug 25, 2021)

zentraveler said:


> Apparently Las Vegas is a very popular destination for islanders and no real testing or vaccines needed for residents returning from the mainland.




Residents do have to register with the Hawaii Safe Travels website and they can get around testing with proof of vaccination. They have to upload a photo of their Vaccination card. If they don't have the proof, they would have to get tested within 72 hours of travel and upload their negative result.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Aug 25, 2021)

zentraveler said:


> Would seem prudent to me to have both residents and visitors need a negative test (regardless of vaccine status) now. A real pain, yes, but Hawaii did so well for such a long time and I test is not hard to get.



From what I have read in the Star Advertiser and in other posts, there seems to be a big question if the state can still require pre-travel testing for vaccinated people.  The HI Attorney General has indicted that once the CDC  approved air travel safe for vaccinated people, then requiring pre-travel testing would likely be challenged in court, and the state would lose.


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## HGVC Lover (Aug 25, 2021)

slip said:


> Residents do have to register with the Hawaii Safe Travels website and they can get around testing with proof of vaccination. They have to upload a photo of their Vaccination card. If they don't have the proof, they would have to get tested within 72 hours of travel and upload their negative result.



I think that residents/visitors who do not get tested or are vaccinated still have to abide by the mandatory 10 day self-quarantine rule upon arrival and this is another loop hole that is being exported by some......


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## dioxide45 (Aug 25, 2021)

HGVC Lover said:


> I think that residents/visitors who do not get tested or are vaccinated still have to abide by the mandatory 10 day self-quarantine rule upon arrival and this is another loop hole that is being exported by some......


Of course, the self quarantine could still be around people in the same home?


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## Vagabonder (Aug 25, 2021)

Henry M. said:


> When I was in Maui early in the year, the vast majority of cases there were in Kahului, particularly in some of the housing projects. I don't know if that is still the case. However, it sounds from listening to the governor that indeed most of the spread is not from tourists but from locals going off-island and coming back to quarantine at home rather than test before getting on the plane to come back.
> 
> Where I live, in Texas, the vast majority of hospital cases are unvaccinated people. Those vaccinated can still get the disease, but usually don't require hospital care.
> 
> ...


But you're still sitting on a plane for a long time breathing the recirculated air so...IDK you're only as safe as the last person who coughed on your seatmates? PS Delta?


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## Vagabonder (Aug 25, 2021)

sorry I know there is a covid forum and I should stick to it MODS- I am supposed to be headin to the islands soon for my only post covid vaccay and I just dont know-


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## Vagabonder (Aug 25, 2021)

Vagabonder said:


> sorry I know there is a covid forum and I should stick to it MODS- I am supposed to be headin to the islands soon for my only post covid vaccay and I just dont know-


waiting on Maui restrictions- deal breaker.


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## slip (Aug 25, 2021)

HGVC Lover said:


> I think that residents/visitors who do not get tested or are vaccinated still have to abide by the mandatory 10 day self-quarantine rule upon arrival and this is another loop hole that is being exported by some......



Yes, that's correct,  they are not denied entry but they would have to quarantine. Providing the vaccination proof and negative test avoids the quarantine. That would also back up what the Governor has been saying that there isn't a large problem with visitors, it's mostly residents. 

There were many reports of visitors skipping quarantine early on but after the vaccination and testing,  we haven't heard much of those reports.


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## alwysonvac (Aug 25, 2021)

[DELETED - Please use the COVID forum]


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## slip (Aug 25, 2021)

This thread has turned into a thread that should  be in the COVID forum.


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## DeniseM (Aug 25, 2021)

If you want to go down this road, post in the COVID forum.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 26, 2021)

slip said:


> The total passenger count has already went down and I believe it will go down more with the Governors request for people not to come. The decline is following the annual decline around this time of year. The screen below Is from the Hawaii Statistics website.
> 
> View attachment 39215


I have been watching the Total Passenger Count for arrivals in Hawaii and noticed that the passenger counts have gone down over the last week and should be going down even more.  Over the last few days the number of coronavirus cases has also gone down which is good and what I predicted would happen.


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## TwilightHours (Aug 28, 2021)

My trip is a little further out in November (11/25), so I have more time to see how the situation continues to develop.  Fortunately, I don't have to make the final decision as my rental is fully refundable until 10/25.

I'm feeling really happy about my decision to take a trip in May of 2021 (once I was fully vaccinated). It was a wonderful 11 day trip to Kihei. At the time, it really lifted my spirits and has helped fill that wanderlust/getoutoftown need that I get from time to time. 

If the situation warrants staying home, that's what I'll do. The concern about available medical facilities is a serious one for myself as well as others.


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## Ernie McClellan (Aug 28, 2021)

We visited in March, just after they reopened the first time. We are HGVC owners, and we stayed at the Lagoon Tower. If you decide to go, keep some things in mind:

Many of the excursions and activities you will want to partake in may fill up fast due to limited availability. I suggest booking things before you go. 

At the time of our visit, few restaurants were open for dine in. Most options were takeout. 

Not sure what rental car options look like, but when we were there they experienced a shortage of vehicles. Reservations were being canceled, and those who could get them were paying north of $600 per day. On the other hand The Bus is a pretty comprehensive public transit system that will get you where you need to go. 

If your objective is to just get away and relax…and you’ve done all the sights before, you may do fine. If you want to get out and active, there could be some challenges. 

Hospital capacity in locales we visit is of concern also. We always check those rates before visiting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 28, 2021)

We stepped off the plane in HNL just as the announcement hit.

Glad we came. We are eating mostly in unit and ate out two dinners at restaurant outside or next to window. We are vaxxed, wear masks and social distance. We are doing activities out doors. 

With the exception of no international travelers and tables spread further apart, I am not seeing any difference in crowds. I was told at hotel that locals are coming into town to staycation.

I thought Ige limited gathering to no more than 25 outdoors but our hotel had luaus past 2 nights and I see party boats with more than 25 people. Many unmasked. Is this just a guideline? Or are people fed up?


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 29, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> We stepped off the plane in HNL just as the announcement hit.
> 
> Glad we came. We are eating mostly in unit and ate out two dinners at restaurant outside or next to window. We are vaxxed, wear masks and social distance. We are doing activities out doors.
> 
> ...



You seem to be doing the right thing to stay safe and not spread the virus.  Many have stated that the large number of tourist arrivals are not contributing greatly to the spread of the virus since tourists don't have contact with local people.   In addition to the obvious contact with local people that tourists have with locals who serve them in hotels, timeshares, restaurants, stores, and shops you brought up that locals are coming into town and staycationing in Waikiki where tourists are staying.  The question in my mind that no one can answer is how many tourists that are vacinated get infected wiith mild symptoms but are not getting tested so only 2% of those testing positive are tourists?


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## slip (Aug 29, 2021)

Tamaradarann said:


> You seem to be doing the right thing to stay safe and not spread the virus.  Many have stated that the large number of tourist arrivals are not contributing greatly to the spread of the virus since tourists don't have contact with local people.   In addition to the obvious contact with local people that tourists have with locals who serve them in hotels, timeshares, restaurants, stores, and shops you brought up that locals are coming into town and staycationing in Waikiki where tourists are staying.  The question in my mind that no one can answer is how many tourists that are vacinated get infected wiith mild symptoms but are not getting tested so only 2% of those testing positive are tourists?



I think the contact tracing being done is showing the numbers that are reported are correct. I know a few people that have tested positive and they all received calls and gave information that is used to track the virus. So even if no test is done they still get some information on other infections that do get tested. That’s just my thoughts on the matter.

Definitely, less people in Waikiki compared to the last few weeks. Not a ghost town by any means but less people. That is the natural trend this time of year also. We’ll have to see how the next few weeks go.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 29, 2021)

slip said:


> I think the contact tracing being done is showing the numbers that are reported are correct. I know a few people that have tested positive and they all received calls and gave information that is used to track the virus. So even if no test is done they still get some information on other infections that do get tested. That’s just my thoughts on the matter.
> 
> Definitely, less people in Waikiki compared to the last few weeks. Not a ghost town by any means but less people. That is the natural trend this time of year also. We’ll have to see how the next few weeks go.



So are you saying that all the positives in coronavirus tests have been called and the local residents all                                                                                  indicated that they have been in close contact with someone that lives in Hawaii that has the virus and so it is concluded that they caught it from that person so it is assumed they didn't catch it from some tourist at work or when they were shopping?  Or am I not coming to the right conclusion on the tracking of the virus.


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## CalGalTraveler (Aug 29, 2021)

Re contact tracing. We were required to complete contact info at our table as we sat down at each restaurant.


Friday night in Waikiki was very busy and crowded downtown. Most peeps wore masks. Unlike Vegas there was no smell of pot as you walk IMO which Is good. Cant stand that smell.

Outdoor Tapa bar at HHV had 2 live bands. We enjoyed social distance dancing as a group away from others by the pool. Others crowded on the dance floor. Some wore masks some did not. Loved the free entertainment.


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## slip (Aug 29, 2021)

Tamaradarann said:


> So are you saying that all the positives in coronavirus tests have been called and the local residents all                                                                                  indicated that they have been in close contact with someone that lives in Hawaii that has the virus and so it is concluded that they caught it from that person so it is assumed they didn't catch it from some tourist at work or when they were shopping?  Or am I not coming to the right conclusion on the tracking of the virus.




That's the  way I understand it and it is consistent with the people I know that tested positive. Then yes, they gather the information and follow it back. None of this of course is 100%. I'm just attempting to give some information on the question you had in your mind that you said no one can answer. I am no authority,  I am just giving my two cents worth.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 29, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Re contact tracing. We were required to complete contact info at our table as we sat down at each restaurant.
> 
> 
> Friday night in Waikiki was very busy and crowded downtown. Most peeps wore masks. Unlike Vegas there was no smell of pot as you walk IMO which Is good. Cant stand that smell.
> ...



We have always loved the free entertainment at both the Tapa Bar as well as at Tropics.  We have danced many times on the walkway on the beach in front of Tropics coming back from the center of Waikiki at night.  My husband loved to bring a Pina Colada down to the beach in a lided coffee cup and sit in a chair on the beach in the late afternoon and listen to the band at Tropics.  Can't wait for the good times to return.


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## Tamaradarann (Aug 30, 2021)

slip said:


> That the  way I understand it and it is consistent with the people I know that tested positive. Then yes, they gather the information and follow it back. None of this of course is 100%. I'm just attempting to give some information on the question you had in your mind that you said no one can answer. I am no authority,  I am just giving my two cents worth.



Thanks for the information about the tracing of those that test positive. The question that I have, which no one can answer, is how many tourists get a mild case of the virus and don't get tested so they don't count in the statistics and can't be traced, but can possibly pass it on to locals? Since no one can answer that question everyone seems to believe that tourists are NOT the source of the spread of the virus in Hawaii.


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## slip (Aug 30, 2021)

Tamaradarann said:


> Thanks for the information about the tracing of those that test positive. The question that I have, which no one can answer, is how many tourists get a mild case of the virus and don't get tested so they don't count in the statistics and can't be traced, but can possibly pass it on to locals? Since no one can answer that question everyone seems to believe that tourists are NOT the source of the spread of the virus in Hawaii.



Yes, I understood your question, my point was, it seems that the contact tracers are finding the source with local spread and not with the tourists. So if the tourists do have mild cases and pass it to locals, it must be a small amount because they are finding different sources for the larger number of cases. I don’t know if that is right or wrong but that seems to be what the state is saying.


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## rickandcindy23 (Aug 30, 2021)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Re contact tracing. We were required to complete contact info at our table as we sat down at each restaurant.
> 
> 
> Friday night in Waikiki was very busy and crowded downtown. Most peeps wore masks. Unlike Vegas there was no smell of pot as you walk IMO which Is good. Cant stand that smell.
> ...


I agree about the smell of pot.  It's awful.  I am surprised they are taking contact information.  Is that new with this variant?  I don't remember that from March, when we were there.


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## Wingo99 (Aug 30, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> I agree about the smell of pot.  It's awful.  I am surprised they are taking contact information.  Is that new with this variant?  I don't remember that from


I'm in Waikiki now and we've eaten out a couple times.  One place said they were told to take information down, but the government hadn't told them much information beyond that.  Said to figure it out basically.  Not sure, some ask for only a name and phone number, some for home address, some which hotel we are at.  All over the map.  
Ive never been here before, but it doesn't seem crowded here at all.  We made these plans before the governor made his statement.  
Also, smelled MJ smoke a few times, but mostly when walking by the homeless tents near the public areas.


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## slip (Aug 30, 2021)

Wingo99 said:


> I'm in Waikiki now and we've eaten out a couple times.  One place said they were told to take information down, but the government hadn't told them much information beyond that.  Said to figure it out basically.  Not sure, some ask for only a name and phone number, some for home address, some which hotel we are at.  All over the map.
> Ive never been here before, but it doesn't seem crowded here at all.  We made these plans before the governor made his statement.
> Also, smelled MJ smoke a few times, but mostly when walking by the homeless tents near the public areas.



Yes, this started right after the stay at home order was lifted last year. Usually they ask for name address and phone number  it some only ask for name and phone number.
This is of course is only when you dine In. 

It has slowed down some in Waikiki. It is definitely not as crowded as a few weeks ago but no ghost town either.


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## Ralph Sir Edward (Sep 11, 2021)

Feast or Famine









						Hawaii Travel: Feast or Famine
					

There were too many visitors in Hawaii this summer.



					beatofhawaii.com
				




The old saw "be careful of what you wish for. . . you might get it."


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## PamMo (Sep 11, 2021)

Interesting read, @Ralph Sir Edward. From the article above:

_...Now, however, things have swung so far back in the other direction that the Maui mayor sounded concerned yesterday when he spoke at a press conference about the state of Hawaii travel on Maui. Mayor Michael Victorino said, “I had a meeting with the hoteliers on Maui this morning and, as of date, 51,000 room nights have been canceled, $21.4 M loss in revenue and that’s Maui County only.” In June, on the other hand, Victorino had called for “a pause” in Maui tourism...

...Additionally, Hawaii businesses are hurting once again and could face further layoffs. Given the difficulty in finding employees, companies are loathed to let people go. Maui’s mayor concurred, saying, “I’d hold on to them… because there’s not a whole line of people behind them.” On the other hand, how long will they be able to weather a financial storm of unknown duration?_

_It seems likely but not certain that by the arrival of the November/December holiday season, there will be a rebound to the levels seen last summer. One question is how that next travel boom could impact Covid cases here in Hawaii..._


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## rickandcindy23 (Sep 11, 2021)

We don't want visitors, then he says we do want visitors.  Make up your mind, Mayor Victorino.


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## DeniseM (Sep 11, 2021)

Hawaii is in such a tough place: On one hand their hospitals are bursting and the Delta Virus is skyrocketing. On the other hand, they need tourism to pull them out of the COVID financial slump. It's easy to sit here on the mainland and play armchair quarterback, but it's pretty insensitive if you really care about Hawaii.








						Hawaii records 12 new coronavirus-related deaths, 836 additional infections
					

Hawaii Department of Health officials today reported 12 new coronavirus-related deaths and 836 new confirmed and probable infections statewide, bringing the state’s totals since the start of the pandemic to 653 fatalities and 71,156 cases.




					www.staradvertiser.com


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## csodjd (Sep 11, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> Hawaii is in such a tough place: On one hand their hospitals are bursting and the Delta Virus is skyrocketing. On the other hand, they need tourism to pull them out of the COVID financial slump. It's easy to sit here on the mainland and play armchair quarterback, but it's pretty insensitive if you really care about Hawaii.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But isn't the germane question whether or not the tourists and visitors are materially contributing to the surge and hospital issues? They should be able to know that. They should have no difficulty determining how many hospitalized patients are residents versus visitors. 

If the visitors makes up a material portion then they have to address that, and that may mean more financial hardship. But if it doesn't, if only a small percent are visitors, then discouraging visitors isn't making a difference in the covid/hospital problem, but is exacerbating another one, the working/financial one.


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## HGVC Lover (Sep 11, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> Hawaii is in such a tough place: On one hand their hospitals are bursting and the Delta Virus is skyrocketing. On the other hand, they need tourism to pull them out of the COVID financial slump. It's easy to sit here on the mainland and play armchair quarterback, but it's pretty insensitive if you really care about Hawaii.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Totally agree…. Hawaii has to deal with seriously rising Covid numbers and they are trying to focus on that. On top of that the islands had to deal with too many tourists this summer with most businesses not being able to function higher then 50% of normal. Also, their resources are limited.

We were there, HI, the month of July and August and everywhere was crowded. Having lived there I know there is a major drop off in tourism this time of year unti the snowbirds start arriving and the holiday season begins.

It is not a question of who is doing what to who but the population is really starting to be impacted by the spread of the viruses and they are worried and are asking for help and understanding.


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## Tamaradarann (Sep 12, 2021)

csodjd said:


> But isn't the germane question whether or not the tourists and visitors are materially contributing to the surge and hospital issues? They should be able to know that. They should have no difficulty determining how many hospitalized patients are residents versus visitors.
> 
> If the visitors makes up a material portion then they have to address that, and that may mean more financial hardship. But if it doesn't, if only a small percent are visitors, then discouraging visitors isn't making a difference in the covid/hospital problem, but is exacerbating another one, the working/financial one.



You are correct I have never seen a breakdown of the number of hospitalized patients that are vistiors versus residents only that the number of those testing positive for the virus that are visitors versus residents.  That would be an interesting statistic. 

My position on the low number (2%) of the those testing positive for visitors is that since most vistiors are vaccinated they have mild cases that they take over the counter medications and some rest and don't get tested or seek medical attention since they are on vacation so they are never counted in the number of testing positive but they can and do spread the virus. (Just recently there have been clusters of cases surrounding restaurants in Hawaii which of course tourists frequent).  However, If my speculation is correct about the actions of infected tourists then the 2% that are testing positive are VERY ILL, that is why they got tested, and most probably they sought medical attention and there is a good possibility they got admitted to a hospital.  While 2% sounds like a very low percentage I am sure that in that 2% there is a greater PERCENTAGE of SERVERE ILLNESS, than in the 98% of the residents who tested positive.  So that is an addtional load that the Hosptials in Hawaii have had to deal with that they wouldn't have had to deal with without tourists.  Typically Hawaii Hospitals don't get a huge load of admitted tourists since people that are already feeling ill or needing operations don't travel all the way to Hawaii.  Residents are already there.


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## csodjd (Sep 12, 2021)

Tamaradarann said:


> You are correct I have never seen a breakdown of the number of hospitalized patients that are vistiors versus residents only that the number of those testing positive for the virus that are visitors versus residents.  That would be an interesting statistic.
> 
> My position on the low number (2%) of the those testing positive for visitors is that since most vistiors are vaccinated they have mild cases that they take over the counter medications and some rest and don't get tested or seek medical attention since they are on vacation so they are never counted in the number of testing positive but they can and do spread the virus. (Just recently there have been clusters of cases surrounding restaurants in Hawaii which of course tourists frequent).  However, If my speculation is correct about the actions of infected tourists then the 2% that are testing positive are VERY ILL, that is why they got tested, and most probably they sought medical attention and there is a good possibility they got admitted to a hospital.  While 2% sounds like a very low percentage I am sure that in that 2% there is a greater PERCENTAGE of SERVERE ILLNESS, than in the 98% of the residents who tested positive.  So that is an addtional load that the Hosptials in Hawaii have had to deal with that they wouldn't have had to deal with without tourists.  Typically Hawaii Hospitals don't get a huge load of admitted tourists since people that are already feeling ill or needing operations don't travel all the way to Hawaii.  Residents are already there.


Not to go another direction in the thread, but if 2% of vaccinated tourists had disease warranting hospitalization that would be WAY more than what the data shows overall. Overall, given the effectiveness of the vaccines at preventing disease that severe, that’s about 400% more than what would be expected. 

I believe from what I have read and heard out of Hawaii is that their experience is that of everyone else — almost everyone in the hospital is unvaccinated. That means they were not tourists in all likelihood (of course, it’s possible to travel based on a test and so there is a window of opportunity there. I’ve not seen any breakdown on what % of visitors are coming vaccinated vs. negative test.)


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## HGVC Lover (Sep 12, 2021)

csodjd said:


> Not to go another direction in the thread, but if 2% of vaccinated tourists had disease warranting hospitalization that would be WAY more than what the data shows overall. Overall, given the effectiveness of the vaccines at preventing disease that severe, that’s about 400% more than what would be expected.
> 
> I believe from what I have read and heard out of Hawaii is that their experience is that of everyone else — almost everyone in the hospital is unvaccinated. That means they were not tourists in all likelihood (of course, it’s possible to travel based on a test and so there is a window of opportunity there. I’ve not seen any breakdown on what % of visitors are coming vaccinated vs. negative test.)



The problem is that not all tourists have to take a test or be vaccinated to visit Hawaii.  They still have the option to self-quarantine for ten days or the duration of the trip (whichever is longer).
It has been reported, number has not been indicated, that tourists who chose the last option are not quarantining and this could be leading to some of the spread.  This is why the mayor of HI wants a public list published or available online of all tourists who are visiting the island and are choosing to be quarantined so people will know who they are and what they are doing and can be better tracked.    He said it is no different than the lists that are published of DUI offenders so it should not be a problem legally.


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## Fredflintstone (Sep 12, 2021)

HGVC Lover said:


> The problem is that not all tourists have to take a test or be vaccinated to visit Hawaii. They still have the option to self-quarantine for ten days or the duration of the trip (whichever is longer).
> It has been reported, number has not been indicated, that tourists who chose the last option are not quarantining and this could be leading to some of the spread. This is why the mayor of HI wants a public list published or available online of all tourists who are visiting the island and are choosing to be quarantined so people will know who they are and what they are doing and can be better tracked. He said it is no different than the lists that are published of DUI offenders so it should not be a problem legally.



Personally, I think they should just have no vaccination, no entry. Period. Yes, one can choose not to vaccinate just like they can choose not to get a passport. However, as a visitor, you don’t have the same rights as those living there. They set the rules and you can choose not to follow them and go where the rules are acceptable to you.

I think public lists or placing ankle bracelets on people more offensive frankly. They are not criminals like sex offenders. Public humiliation is just wrong. They are people who choose to not get vaccinated. Thus, they can choose to go somewhere else if they want. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## csodjd (Sep 12, 2021)

HGVC Lover said:


> The problem is that not all tourists have to take a test or be vaccinated to visit Hawaii.  They still have the option to self-quarantine for ten days or the duration of the trip (whichever is longer).
> It has been reported, number has not been indicated, that tourists who chose the last option are not quarantining and this could be leading to some of the spread.  This is why the mayor of HI wants a public list published or available online of all tourists who are visiting the island and are choosing to be quarantined so people will know who they are and what they are doing and can be better tracked.    He said it is no different than the lists that are published of DUI offenders so it should not be a problem legally.


Well, it certainly IS different, because the list is of people that have not done anything wrong. 

I doubt very many tourists are coming over without vaccination or a negative test. Residents, sure, some area. But tourists coming with the PLAN to violate the quarantine laws so they can vacation? A trickle at most. I don't think hospitals are filling up due to that "group." When I see stripes I look for zebras before horses. 

Moreover, Hawaii has the cases sorted by zip code, and they show that the great majority on Oahu are coming from just a couple of zip codes in the airport, Ewa Beach and areas northwest of that. Three zip codes 96792, 96707 and 96706 account for more than 2000 cases alone in the past 14 days. These are not tourist areas. In contrast, 96815 and 96816, which includes all of Waikiki and more, is about 340 cases in the past 14 days, and it has vastly more tourists.


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## csodjd (Sep 12, 2021)

Fredflintstone said:


> Personally, I think they should just have no vaccination, no entry. Period. Yes, one can choose not to vaccinate just like they can choose not to get a passport. However, as a visitor, you don’t have the same rights as those living there. They set the rules and you can choose not to follow them and go where the rules are acceptable to you.
> 
> I think public lists or placing ankle bracelets on people more offensive frankly. They are not criminals like sex offenders. Public humiliation is just wrong. They are people who choose to not get vaccinated. Thus, they can choose to go somewhere else if they want.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


They may work that direction, but I doubt it because they are saying over and over that the surge in Hawaii is from residents not tourists. Regarding the comment, "as a visitor, you don’t have the same rights as those living there," the fact is, at a Constitutional level, yes, you do, and any law that unfairly burdens a visitor would likely be unconstitutional.


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## Fredflintstone (Sep 12, 2021)

csodjd said:


> They may work that direction, but I doubt it because they are saying over and over that the surge in Hawaii is from residents not tourists. Regarding the comment, "as a visitor, you don’t have the same rights as those living there," the fact is, at a Constitutional level, yes, you do, and any law that unfairly burdens a visitor would likely be unconstitutional.



Yes, maybe but placing non vaccinated visitors on a list for tracking and humiliation could be deemed unconstitutional as I understand Americans have the right to travel unhindered within the US. Being a Canadian though, I am a visitor and don’t have the same rights and it should be that way. Just like you coming into Canada don’t have the same rights. You can be refused entry into Canada as I can be refused entry into the US if I don’t follow the rules and it should be this way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DeniseM (Sep 12, 2021)

Folks - If you want to get into the weeds with COVID, please post in the COVID Forum.


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## Tamaradarann (Sep 12, 2021)

csodjd said:


> Not to go another direction in the thread, but if 2% of vaccinated tourists had disease warranting hospitalization that would be WAY more than what the data shows overall. Overall, given the effectiveness of the vaccines at preventing disease that severe, that’s about 400% more than what would be expected.
> 
> I believe from what I have read and heard out of Hawaii is that their experience is that of everyone else — almost everyone in the hospital is unvaccinated. That means they were not tourists in all likelihood (of course, it’s possible to travel based on a test and so there is a window of opportunity there. I’ve not seen any breakdown on what % of visitors are coming vaccinated vs. negative test.)



I am trying to make some sense out of Governor Ige's discouraging tourists from coming to Hawaii until October.  I will try to simplfy my theory here.  Although only 2% of the people who tested positive are tourists, in that 2% that are a greater PERCENTAGE of servely ill and needing hospitalization than in the 98% of the residents that tested positive.  My reasoning is that tourists would only go out of their way to get tested or seek medical assistance if they felt serverly ill.


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## csodjd (Sep 12, 2021)

Tamaradarann said:


> I am trying to make some sense out of Governor Ige's discouraging tourists from coming to Hawaii until October.  I will try to simplfy my theory here.  Although only 2% of the people who tested positive are tourists, in that 2% that are a greater PERCENTAGE of servely ill and needing hospitalization than in the 98% of the residents that tested positive.  My reasoning is that tourists would only go out of their way to get tested or seek medical assistance if they felt serverly ill.


I’ll suggest another perfect reasonable reason for his statements. Tourists are people. They have things happen. Heart attacks, injuries, etc. Nothing to do with covid, just stuff. With the strain covid is putting on the healthcare system, they just don’t want to deal with those medical issues and may be concerned that they won’t even be able to. They have their hands full providing the full scope of care, not just covid care, to residents. 

I’d see that as a good rationale for saying, please give us a break and don’t come for a couple months.


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## HGVC Lover (Sep 12, 2021)

csodjd said:


> I’ll suggest another perfect reasonable reason for his statements. Tourists are people. They have things happen. Heart attacks, injuries, etc. Nothing to do with covid, just stuff. With the strain covid is putting on the healthcare system, they just don’t want to deal with those medical issues and may be concerned that they won’t even be able to. They have their hands full providing the full scope of care, not just covid care, to residents.
> 
> I’d see that as a good rationale for saying, please give us a break and don’t come for a couple months.



Well stated and some are just taking the issue too personally…..plus many tourists visiting HI are not the saints and saviors that they are being made out to be and it is well documented how protocols are not followed…..mahalo for your clarity….


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## JIMinNC (Sep 12, 2021)

DeniseM said:


> Hawaii is in such a tough place: On one hand their hospitals are bursting and the Delta Virus is skyrocketing. On the other hand, they need tourism to pull them out of the COVID financial slump. It's easy to sit here on the mainland and play armchair quarterback, but it's pretty insensitive if you really care about Hawaii.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is some good news though in the trends...over the last week to 10 days, the 7-day average daily case counts in Hawaii have dropped from around 900/day to a little over 600/day. While reduced testing over the long Labor Day weekend probably had something to do with the rapid drop, the trend has been pretty consistent since Sept 2. In addition, hospitalizations have stopped rising and have even declined slightly from about 470 around Sept 3 to 404 on Sept 10, the last day data has been reported by the Honolulu Star Advertiser. The newspaper also reported that there were fewer citations for illegal gatherings over Labor Day than they expected, so maybe the public in Hawaii has finally gotten the message and are adjusting their behavior.

I am hopeful that these trends will continue and that the worst may be past from the fall Delta surge, and further restrictions will be unnecessary.


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## csodjd (Sep 12, 2021)

JIMinNC said:


> There is some good news though in the trends...over the last week to 10 days, the 7-day average daily case counts in Hawaii have dropped from around 900/day to a little over 600/day. While reduced testing over the long Labor Day weekend probably had something to do with the rapid drop, the trend has been pretty consistent since Sept 2. In addition, hospitalizations have stopped rising and have even declined slightly from about 470 around Sept 3 to 404 on Sept 10, the last day data has been reported by the Honolulu Star Advertiser. The newspaper also reported that there were fewer citations for illegal gatherings over Labor Day than they expected, so maybe the public in Hawaii has finally gotten the message and are adjusting their behavior.
> 
> I am hopeful that these trends will continue and that the worst may be past from the fall Delta surge, and further restrictions will be unnecessary.


That appears to be the pattern everywhere. The explanation is that the virus burns through the groups and connections, then runs out of people to infect, because we tend to live in our own bubbles of friends and family and most of the spread is within those units. Between vaccinated, and those with some degree of natural immunity from infection, it runs out of people.


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## Great3 (Sep 12, 2021)

csodjd said:


> Not to go another direction in the thread, but if 2% of vaccinated tourists had disease warranting hospitalization that would be WAY more than what the data shows overall. Overall, given the effectiveness of the vaccines at preventing disease that severe, that’s about 400% more than what would be expected.
> 
> I believe from what I have read and heard out of Hawaii is that their experience is that of everyone else — almost everyone in the hospital is unvaccinated. That means they were not tourists in all likelihood (of course, it’s possible to travel based on a test and so there is a window of opportunity there. I’ve not seen any breakdown on what % of visitors are coming vaccinated vs. negative test.)



Look here:  Travel Data - Hawai‘i DOH: Info & Resources for Managing COVID-19 (hawaiicovid19.com) 

This tell you how many people are entering Hawaii on vaccinations exemptions vs. negative test result exemptions.  I also like this Hawaii Travel Data website because I can filter on airlines / flight numbers, and it gives me a good idea of how full my flight from mainland to Hawaii is, information you can never get from the airlines directly.

Great3


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## lynne (Sep 12, 2021)

Great3 said:


> Look here:  Travel Data - Hawai‘i DOH: Info & Resources for Managing COVID-19 (hawaiicovid19.com)
> 
> This tell you how many people are entering Hawaii on vaccinations exemptions vs. negative test result exemptions.  I also like this Hawaii Travel Data website because I can filter on airlines / flight numbers, and it gives me a good idea of how full my flight from mainland to Hawaii is, information you can never get from the airlines directly.
> 
> Great3


It also lets you filter for visitors who choose quarantine over both the vaccine and negative test.


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## csodjd (Sep 13, 2021)

Great3 said:


> Look here:  Travel Data - Hawai‘i DOH: Info & Resources for Managing COVID-19 (hawaiicovid19.com)
> 
> This tell you how many people are entering Hawaii on vaccinations exemptions vs. negative test result exemptions.  I also like this Hawaii Travel Data website because I can filter on airlines / flight numbers, and it gives me a good idea of how full my flight from mainland to Hawaii is, information you can never get from the airlines directly.
> 
> Great3


So if I am reading it correctly, the overwhelming majority of people are coming in vaccinated. In the first 10 days of Sept., out of 253,000 coming in, only 3445 were not exempt from quarantine. Of the 3445, 1240 were visitors not residents. So, out of 253,000 coming in, 1240 were visitors without an exemption. That's one-half of one percent. Of course, not all visitors are tourists. Only 535 said there were there for pleasure or vacation. So now we are down to 535 tourists out of 253,000 coming in. About 5 per day. Even if 20% were actively sick, that's only 1 person. 

So I think that pretty much negates that tourists are playing any meaningful role at all in causing or contributing to the surge.


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## DeniseM (Sep 13, 2021)

Folks - If you want to continue this policy/statistical/in-depth COVID discussion, please continue here, in the COVID Forum:








						Hawaii Governor urges tourists to stay home ---  Now is not the time to visit the islands
					

Hawaii Governor urges tourists to stay home ---  Now is not the time to visit the islands  https://www.yahoo.com/news/hawaii-gov-david-ige-urges-020043655.html




					tugbbs.com


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