# Our memberships are going to be worth less



## gstepic (Jun 2, 2014)

I was afraid this was going to happen. I am in the Panama City Beach Resort and just completed a presentation. I have been a Wyndham owner for over 15 years and it seems like it is tougher and tougher to get what I want, even in off season.

Obviously when every resort seems to have a staff dedicated to selling new ownerships and only so much new inventory is being added, this could be part pf the reason. I think a big reason that will push current owners to the back of the line is the new Club Access membership. We were just given this BS that our current ownership is not set up for us to have any sort of priority. Of course in order to have priority in booking you need a club access access membership that gives you a 13 month window for 60 resorts. What this means is owners that do not upgrade are pushed to the back of the line.

We had a VI membership where a similar new package made our current ownership worth much less as we had a very hard time finding availability at place where we never had a hard time booking. We ended up selling our VI membership for this reason. My fear is the same thing is going to happen with Wyndham.

I guess I am just venting a little as I left our "workshop" kind of upset because we were made to think we had a crappy membership and had to upgrade to make good use of it. We were offered 128,000 additional points for $24,000 that would have given us the Club Access benefots, RCI with no exchange fees, and a Wyndham credit card that was supposed to work much better than the Wydham card we have now. 

Like I said I am just venting a little as we are enjoying our stay at the resort and would like to keep coming back every few years. My plan is to keep an eye out for a Panama City Beach Resort resale. We were told if we did not buy a lot of points that would not even help us but I know the sale staff is going to find every reason to tell us why buying resale is not good. 

I admit even knowing what I know from being on this forum for years I may have made a purchase if the price was lower because it is appealing to be able to have priority for Destin and Panama City Beach. Destin for the summer was nearly impossible to find. 

Ok, no more whining and off to enjoy our Florida panhandle vacation - Gary

And further more! I just wanted to add this almost wants to make me a timeshare activist! I personally feel there are too many regulations and it drives up costs to consumers. But I admit I would not mind seeing a law that prevents timeshare companies from doing anything that would devalue previous memberships.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jun 2, 2014)

Bunch of lies.  Really, I know because we are Club Access and cannot get into 60 resorts at 13 months.  The RCI account has exchange fees for everyone.  RCI doesn't give its inventory away for free. 

Stop worrying about what you were told.  You have been a TUG member a long time, and you know Wyndham is the worst at the lies.  

Even the Wyndham credit card BS is a huge lie.  We had that card and cancelled it. 

Enjoy your trip and ignore what they told you.


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## Sandy VDH (Jun 2, 2014)

It is just BS to get you to buy more from them now.

If you plan in advance and book exactly at the 10 month mark most resorts have some availability.  

There are some tight spots like Myrtle Beach in summer, but everyone getting in line before you is just wrong.  Not everyone is going to be booking all of those resorts at the 13 month mark ahead of you. 

What do you own?  Where do you want to go and when?  and When are you trying to make your booking?

I think if you change your planning horizons, you might just be fine.  

It is hype to get you to buy, and its somewhat working because they have you believing that what you have is worthless and will be crap.  They want you to believe that so they can sell you another 24K worth of stuff. 

Relax.  Enjoy your vacation.  Don't go to a presentation.


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## ronparise (Jun 2, 2014)

Know this

If you had showed up owning at Club Wyndham Access they would have told you it was crap and you should own something deeded at your favorite resort


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## DeniseM (Jun 2, 2014)

Two Words:  *THEY LIED* - it's what TS sales people do for a living...


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## gstepic (Jun 2, 2014)

*Thanks for the responses, going to have a drink and*

I will stop fuming over this. We normally like to travel during off season and in the future would probably go to PCB in October. We do plan in advance and this does help. If we really love a certain resort we will be patient and keep an eye out for resales. 

I have been to enough presentations that I should not be surprised at the lies. Today's presentation was so frustrating that all the free stuff in the world will not get us to go on another owner update, no matter what they call it in the future.

It is our 35th wedding anniversary so time to find a good place to have a drink!

Gary


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## Bigrob (Jun 2, 2014)

You were right to not believe what you were told. Sales are very skilled at weaving a little germ of truth and spinning it into an unfounded conclusion. Let's deconstruct what you were told and what the reality is.

Club Wyndham Access provides ARP at 60+ resorts at the 13 month mark: Partially true. CWA provides access to CWA inventory at the 13 month mark. There is CWA inventory at more than 60 Wyndham resorts. However, not all of the inventory at any resort is "CWA" inventory. So in some cases, there is very limited CWA inventory - sometimes even none - at high demand timeframes, as fixed week owners that own peak demand weeks have chosen not to convert to CWA. No conversions for week 28 mean there is no CWA inventory to book that week. If you want CWA, there are resale CWA contracts that you can get for 20X less than the price they quoted you, and the points spend just the same.

Credit Card - most credit cards have a cashback or bonus option that is more valuable than what Wyndham will provide with their branded card. 

The "RCI with no exchange fees" is utter nonsense. The correct phrase is, "RCI membership with no fees". But you already have that if you have a Wyndham points membership, so nothing new here. You will still pay the RCI exchange fee, regardless of whatever new contract you add (resale or developer purchased). 

So in net, they are telling you your membership is flawed and needs to be fixed by spending $24K for a CWA contract that is worth less than $1K. (FYI, I was paid to take a 212K CWA membership, and I know of at least one other TUGGER who is getting a 900K CWA for free). Informed with the facts, you can actually smile or even laugh out loud at the outrageous lies.


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## Bigrob (Jun 2, 2014)

gstepic said:


> I will stop fuming over this. We normally like to travel during off season and in the future would probably go to PCB in October. We do plan in advance and this does help. If we really love a certain resort we will be patient and keep an eye out for resales.
> 
> I have been to enough presentations that I should not be surprised at the lies. Today's presentation was so frustrating that all the free stuff in the world will not get us to go on another owner update, no matter what they call it in the future.
> 
> ...



Excellent and congratulations!


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## gstepic (Jun 2, 2014)

*Ron - your post made me chuckle a bit!*

And you are probably 100% correct. I sold life insurance for over 10 years and always told the truth, so what is frustrating is sales people do not have to lie. But when they are under tremendous pressure to get results it probably either brings out the worse in people or their conscious causes them to burn out and quit.

And all of you, thank you so much for your comments. This forum is so valuable and you have no idea how much I appreciate the input provided from TUG members.

Gary


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## DaveNV (Jun 2, 2014)

gstepic said:


> It is our 35th wedding anniversary so time to find a good place to have a drink!
> 
> Gary




Happy Anniversary, Gary!  Hope you two are having a fine day.  Set aside the lies Wyndham told you, and have fun.  That's why you're there.

Dave


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## csxjohn (Jun 2, 2014)

gstepic said:


> ..... Today's presentation was so frustrating that all the free stuff in the world will not get us to go on another owner update, no matter what they call it in the future.



Amen to that, I went to one in the 70's and it was not high pressure but I new then that I would never go to one again and I never have.  You almost let their lies upset your trip and Ron really speaks the truth on this.



> It is our 35th wedding anniversary so time to find a good place to have a drink!
> 
> Gary



Happy Anniversary and I'd like to buy you a drink to celebrate so if we ever meet up I owe you both one.


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## ronparise (Jun 2, 2014)

gstepic said:


> And you are probably 100% correct. I sold life insurance for over 10 years and always told the truth, so what is frustrating is sales people do not have to lie. But when they are under tremendous pressure to get results it probably either brings out the worse in people or their conscious causes them to burn out and quit.
> 
> And all of you, thank you so much for your comments. This forum is so valuable and you have no idea how much I appreciate the input provided from TUG members.
> 
> Gary



Gary

If you have been trained in sales you can see exactly what they are doing, especially if you get a new guy fresh out of his training.. First build raport...do you have grandkids, how old are they, can you just see them on that waterslide  etc etc. Then find a problem or a need. As we all know the basis of a good sale is satisfying a need or solving a problem with our product or service. Then present the product and show how it solves the problem. Then overcome the inevitable objections and close...

My issue with Wyndham salespeople is that they create a problem where none exists and they lie when explaining how the product works

Ive been selling since I was tall enough to reach a door bell and I believe sales is an honorable profession. The Wyndham crowd gives us all a bad name


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## ronparise (Jun 2, 2014)

Bigrob said:


> You were right to not believe what you were told. Sales are very skilled at weaving a little germ of truth and spinning it into an unfounded conclusion. Let's deconstruct what you were told and what the reality is.
> 
> Club Wyndham Access provides ARP at 60+ resorts at the 13 month mark: Partially true. CWA provides access to CWA inventory at the 13 month mark. There is CWA inventory at more than 60 Wyndham resorts. However, not all of the inventory at any resort is "CWA" inventory. So in some cases, there is very limited CWA inventory - sometimes even none - at high demand timeframes, as fixed week owners that own peak demand weeks have chosen not to convert to CWA. No conversions for week 28 mean there is no CWA inventory to book that week. If you want CWA, there are resale CWA contracts that you can get for 20X less than the price they quoted you, and the points spend just the same.
> 
> ...



Eric, its only 885000 points, and I have to pay Wyndhams $299 transfer fee


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## Bigrob (Jun 2, 2014)

ronparise said:


> Eric, its only 885000 points, and I have to pay Wyndhams $299 transfer fee



Wow... you got robbed


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## hjtug (Jun 2, 2014)

These sales statements are lies.  But, as most of us know, Wyndham will truly make memberships worth less when that can get away with it.  Examples are when they did away with studio trading deposits and raised the number of points necessary for the other trading deposit categories and when they eliminated the ability to "rent" points to other members by doing a simple online transfer of  the points from one member's account to another.  A year ago we told a salesman that we were unhappy with Wyndham because of such changes.  His solution made me laugh: since we are now paying more for our vacations by renting more, we should give Wyndham a large sum of money to purchase more points so that we could rent less in the future.


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## bogey21 (Jun 3, 2014)

hjtug said:


> .......Wyndham will truly make memberships worth less when that can get away with it.



*But it is us who let them get away with it.*  When I was faced with devaluation of what I bought from another developer I sold my 4 Weeks fearing future devaluations which incidentally did materialize.

George


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## JohnPaul (Jun 3, 2014)

gstepic said:


> We had a VI membership where a similar new package made our current ownership worth much less as we had a very hard time finding availability at place where we never had a hard time booking. We ended up selling our VI membership for this reason. My fear is the same thing is going to happen with Wyndham.
> 
> .



The changes at VI shouldn't have affected much except bonus time.  What were the changes you feel lowered the value of your VI to the point of selling?


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## JimMIA (Jun 3, 2014)

ronparise said:


> My issue with Wyndham salespeople is that they create a problem where none exists and they lie when explaining how the product works


Thank goodness our elected officials don't lower themselves to such sleazy tactics! :hysterical:


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## lilpooh108 (Jun 3, 2014)

gstepic said:


> I will stop fuming over this. We normally like to travel during off season and in the future would probably go to PCB in October. We do plan in advance and this does help. If we really love a certain resort we will be patient and keep an eye out for resales. Gary



Out of curiosity I just looked and October at PCB is pretty much wide open.  I'm sure you'll be fine


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## siesta (Jun 3, 2014)

All I can say is that timeshare salesman fooled you good. Hook, line, but not quite sinker since you didnt "upgrade"

Have a drink, it was all BS


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## gstepic (Jun 4, 2014)

*JohnPaul response and we want more points*

Another Vi owner told me there was a new membership that provided an earlier booking period. I did notice it was harder and harder to book places we used to book, but it could be because of more members and not more inventory.

We are thoroughly enjoying our PCB resort and will do more of a review in the proper forum. This is making me want to get more points but am in no rush. Thanks to this forum I know where to look and how the process works, so it is just a matter of being patient. when I fork over $1,500 or so for a bunch of points I will just think of what I could have spent for those and it will bring a nice smile instead of remorse.


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## BamaBlue (Jun 4, 2014)

Ron is exactly right. I own Club Access and we go to PCB a lot and every time they try and tell me that I should own at PCB because of the lower maintenance fees... Enjoy your vacation and don't worry about sales...


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## gstepic (Jun 4, 2014)

I will keep on eye out for a PCB resort resale, we really like this resort. After three cloudy days the sun is out and we had a blast watching the stingrays play from our balcony. I also think there is something to be said about southern hospitality because we have meet many very friendly locals.


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## Bigrob (Jun 4, 2014)

gstepic said:


> I will keep on eye out for a PCB resort resale, we really like this resort. After three cloudy days the sun is out and we had a blast watching the stingrays play from our balcony. I also think there is something to be said about southern hospitality because we have meet many very friendly locals.



If you're buying PCB resale points, you'll have better ARP at PCB than you would have with CWA anyway. Enjoy!

You may have to be a little patient, points packages were plentiful at the beginning of the year but seem to be a bit sparse right now. Good luck and happy hunting!


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## gstepic (Jun 9, 2014)

On our last day staying at the Panama City Beach Resort I get a call from our salesman saying another option just came up (a lower point, less expensive option) was available. He kept telling me "I just don't know how this happened, this never happens". I think they lie even when they don't have to. I would have had more respect and interest if he would have just said we have another option.


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## Arb (Jun 10, 2014)

*Pathway, Club Pass, and Access*

Whew, I've just read this thread through and through. We went to a meeting this morning at Nashville and we were "almost persuaded." to spend about $20K for 105 pts and CP and Access would've been included. The Pathway program was to be included as well, so that we could have an exit strategy at the end of our vacationing life. Wyndham would agree to buy back our points for 20% of their purchase price. This seemed like a good thing because we don't want to be stuck with maintenance fees when we are too old or ill to travel.
The reps told us that we would be able to use points to pay maint fees, to buy plane tickets, and etc. so that we wouldn't have so many out of pocket travel expenses for air, cruises, and so on.
I was becoming a nervous wreck because of the "simple explanations" of why this was a good idea.
We left.... and I was still considering, but reading this thread has helped me. I still wonder whether it wouldn't be a good idea to be able to use our points for other travel options.
Oh, ho, and we thought we were going to a 45-minute breakfast where we would be informed of improved ways to use our Wyndham points. Sadly, those "ways" in the end involved buying more....
Carole


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## Bigrob (Jun 10, 2014)

Arb said:


> Whew, I've just read this thread through and through. We went to a meeting this morning at Nashville and we were "almost persuaded." to spend about $20K for 105 pts and CP and Access would've been included. The Pathway program was to be included as well, so that we could have an exit strategy at the end of our vacationing life. Wyndham would agree to buy back our points for 20% of their purchase price. This seemed like a good thing because we don't want to be stuck with maintenance fees when we are too old or ill to travel.
> The reps told us that we would be able to use points to pay maint fees, to buy plane tickets, and etc. so that we wouldn't have so many out of pocket travel expenses for air, cruises, and so on.
> I was becoming a nervous wreck because of the "simple explanations" of why this was a good idea.
> We left.... and I was still considering, but reading this thread has helped me. I still wonder whether it wouldn't be a good idea to be able to use our points for other travel options.
> ...



Hi Carole,

You did the right thing. If you want more points, resale is the way to go. None of those "extras" are worth what they cost. By a wide margin.

Enjoy and skip the "update" next time.


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## Arb (Jun 11, 2014)

*Pathway*

Thanks, Bigrob. I was sooo stressed.
The Pathway program seemed compelling -- that Wyndham would buy back our purchases when needed, but for the money involved, it was just too much. We will figure it out when the time comes.


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## csxjohn (Jun 11, 2014)

Arb said:


> Thanks, Bigrob. I was sooo stressed.
> The Pathway program seemed compelling -- that Wyndham would buy back our purchases when needed, but for the money involved, it was just too much. We will figure it out when the time comes.



It has been reported here that W may buy the unit back and for up to 20% of what you paid. No guarantees.

You did the right thing by walking out.


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