# DRI Has A BUNCH of Whiners & Complainers



## csalter2 (Apr 5, 2009)

I am just so through with all of the people who whine and complain about DRI. The more I read these forums, the more I realize that people just like to complain just to complain as if they are so perfect. Unfortunately, the people who are happy do not feel reason enough to write about there unhappiness and those who are miserable like to have company. 

DRI inherited a mess. I know. I was with Epic and watched those properties go down the tube. I used to love that Lake Havasu London Bridge Resort. It was right on the water in a great location and have fond memories of it. However, Epic got into financial difficulties and it just was not the same place. Sunterra took over and it was a little better but then they went into financial disarray and then came DRI. 

I am looking at DRI as a new owner who has bought a house "as is". What you saw was what you got. We who have been with Epic and Sunterra have to admit that the places were not up to snuff. I loved the Point at Poipu but it needed to be updated. I loved the Marquis Villas in Palm Springs, but it became a dated property and needed a major face lift. The Scottsdale Links in Arizona has such great potential. It's in a great location, but again needed refurbishment. 

DRI has taken on this challenge. I don't like paying more money just like anyone else, however, I like for my place to be nice and clean and functional. I like the occasional upgrades in my home too. Those of you who have invested in flat screen televisions would fall into that category too. These things cost money and a lot of it. Yes, I hate maintenance fees especially when they go up in price. I have 30,000 points and it hit me right in the mouth just like the rest of us. It was a jump that I did not anticipate. I was saved only because I had a deal for no maintenance fees for this year, but next year I will be out of pocket again. However, my Marriott maintenance fees went up too. I had to pay those. They have gone up every year. When I read the posts from these forums on other developers' properties,they too have increased with no other added features. In fact, many people love Marriott's (me too) but they have not added anything new to their repertoire except devalue the points. 

People need to stop badmouthing DRI. Stop whing and complaining and learn how to best use your property/points. I am truly seeing signs that this company is trying. I am seeing options that were not there before for us owners. I get emails about using points to go to China, Austrailia, and recently South Africa. I am reading these posts and seeing people write about refurbishments at various DRI properties that I know for a fact were dumps. I see options to use our points for tours and attractions. Yes, I know that using your points for things other than accommodations may not be the best use of your points, but heck, it's an option instead of losing them. 

My point is that DRI is trying. I know that the recession has hurt many of us financially and jobs are being lost. However, just like your mortgage on your home is still due, so is your maintenance fee. If you had one of those ugly mortgage loans well they have jumped up too. We need to keep some perspective here. DRI has only been on the job with what they took over for about 2 or 3 years. We are starting to see some results. Yes, they are not perfect, but what company is? People need to own up to the responsibility that they signed at that impulsive moment that they bought. Stop whining and be responsible. These are probably the same people who bought homes they knew they couldn't afford in the first place and want to blame it on the banks, the realtors and the mortgage companies. They paperwork was sitting in front of your faces for you to read. Stop blaming everyone else and learn to use your membership and stop so much whining and complaining. 

I plan to post this on Timeshare Forum and Redweek too. I just get so irritated by it.


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## timeos2 (Apr 5, 2009)

*It is value for dollar not quality of resorts that is missing*



csalter2 said:


> I am just so through with all of the people who whine and complain about DRI. The more I read these forums, the more I realize that people just like to complain just to complain as if they are so perfect. Unfortunately, the people who are happy do not feel reason enough to write about there unhappiness and those who are miserable like to have company.
> People need to stop badmouthing DRI. Stop whing and complaining and learn how to best use your property/points. I am truly seeing signs that this company is trying. I am seeing options that were not there before for us owners. I get emails about using points to go to China, Austrailia, and recently South Africa. I am reading these posts and seeing people write about refurbishments at various DRI properties that I know for a fact were dumps. I see options to use our points for tours and attractions. Yes, I know that using your points for things other than accommodations may not be the best use of your points, but heck, it's an option instead of losing them.



The problem is that the rise in fees is NOT equal to the rise in property value OR service levels. A mid-year hike in base fees  - then ignoring that to declare "only a 5% hike" the next year is NOT quality management or good value for the money. The resorts DRI directly operates as management seem to have even worse increases and then there are the totally unwanted increases for things like "Gold Preferred" II membership that gets us nothing of value but more cost.  DRI simply isn't getting the most out of every dollar of maintenance, but rather seems to raise fees to meet THEIR costs & profits - then the resorts / clubs. Owners have virtually no say unless they are lucky enough to own at an independent affiliate resort.  I am so happy that my only exposure is on the voluntary Club - a couple hundred $ per year - nearly 50% higher than the same service under Sunterra - that I can drop at anytime by simply not paying the annual dues. I feel sorry for those in the Trusts or tied to a resort with DRI management as they simply aren't getting the value for the maintenance dollar they should IMO.  

I'm glad you're happy but coming from EPIC you're level of service / quality was very low. Those of us who are used to the original level of Argosy / Sunterra and other top quality resorts like Marriott, Wyndham, Hilton, etc know it can be done for far less than DRI seems to charge.  Yes they inherited a mess from Sunterra but they are asking way too much to fix it from owners - where is THEIR investment?  They seem to want the cream and the milk and leave the owners that pay with only the curd.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 5, 2009)

*Complaining Is Human Nature.*




csalter2 said:


> I am just so through with all of the people who whine and complain about DRI.


People are generally more apt to sound off about stuff they don't like than to say something positive about things that are OK. 

Often things that are OK become people's baseline for judging other things as better or worse. 

By me, 3 out of my 4 timeshares are OK -- & my only gripe with the 4th timeshare is that the fees are too high. 

By me, RCI is OK.  Ditto RCI Points. 

By me, TUG is OK.  Ditto TUG-BBS. 

Is this a great country or what ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## csalter2 (Apr 5, 2009)

*A Great Country with a Lot of Spoiled Complainers*



AwayWeGo said:


> People are generally more apt to sound off about stuff they don't like than to say something positive about things that are OK.
> 
> Often things that are OK become people's baseline for judging other things as better or worse.
> 
> ...



We do live in a great country! However, I think that free speech sometimes needs to be curved.  

Please note. I do own at Marriott's Ko Olina and have stayed at several of the high end resorts. I do understand what high level of service is and what quality of resorts are. My maintenance fees are over $1500 and have gone up every year I have had them. 

My point is the DRI is trying to improve the quality of its resorts but it will take time. They have only been there for about 3 years. I agree that the service is questionable at times. However, DRI is responsive. We may not always get everything we want or not get the answer we want but they do respond. Sometimes you do get the help that you need. I can tell you now that Marriott is not perfect either. There are people who sometimes complain about their maintenance fees, service, and salespeople too. The difference is that Marriott started out with really, really high grade resorts. Marriott gets their share of complaints too. All is not perfect in that world.  Diamond is  trying to transform some of their resorts that they have inherited. That takes time and money.

I will admit the Gold Preferred may not be a great upgrade. However, when I am going to certain places to eat I will look to see if there is a place on list to get a discount. I allow family members to use the Getaways and any money saved is a plus for my twentysomething kids. 

Value for the dollar depends. In the Marriott world, it is often discussed if getting Marriott Rewards Points is worth buying from the developer or not. It depends on what people see as value. 

I feel DRI owners can get great value from their points even trust owners. I can stretch several vacations over months with my points. I use 2 bdrms now but when I retire, I plan to scale down to 1 bdrms with my wife and take more advantage of stays at places. Again, it depends on how you use it. Send DRI suggestions instead of whining. I have read on this forum and TUG about complaints regarding the reservation system. DRI brought back the system to America (which I personally am glad they did) and updated the online reservation system. These were things owners requested and they did. Perfect, no but it is responsive. 

I just think we need to be patient and keep sending them suggestions and guest improvement forms so that they know what we want. Again, they have just started.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 5, 2009)

Free speech needs to be curved? I suspect you mean curbed and, if you REALLY think that, then perhaps you'd prefer to live 90 miles off shore in Cuba. Nice tropical climate as I understand it. 

I take exception to the thought that DRI is full of whiners. DRI is not full of whiners, it's full of concerned owners. There is a difference.


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## AwayWeGo (Apr 5, 2009)

*Saying It's O. K. Is Not The Same As Calling It Perfect.*




dougp26364 said:


> DRI is not full of whiners, it's full of concerned owners. There is a difference.


I think that's right. 

Just as it's human nature to complain, it's also only natural to equate lack of complaint with claims of perfection -- an equation which naturally is way off the mark. 

For example, every now & then on TUG-BBS, somebody will complain about RCI.  Then another person will respond saying RCI is OK.  Then the person who started off complaining about RCI will suggest that the person saying RCI is OK feels that _RCI Can Do No Wrong._ 

The truth is closer to the middle than to the extremes.  That is, people (like me) who are basically satisfied with RCI for sure don't claim that _RCI Can Do No Wrong._ 

Likewise, people like _csalter2_ who are concerned about perceived anti-DRI commentary aren't necessarily saying _DRI Can Do No Wrong._ 

_Full Disclosure*:*_ DRI is not specially my cup of tea, but that has more to do with the costs of _getting into_ T*.*H*.*E*.* Club than it does with the cost of _being in_ T*.*H*.*E*.* Club, or with any of the operational aspects of DRI-managed timeshares or with the operational workings of T*.*H*.*E*.* Club.  I own Floating Diamond 3BR lock-off units at 2 DRI timeshares that both shook off DRI management & came under independent, owner-controlled management way back before DRI bought out SunTerra, & both of those timeshare resorts are outstanding.  I am not now nor have I ever been a member of T*.*H*.*E*.* Club or its forerunner, Club SunTerra -- not that there's anything wrong with the club other than (a) the big bux I would have to pay to join if I wanted to & (b) the fact that I can't sell it to somebody else when I'm done with it.  

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Poobah (Apr 5, 2009)

*DRI*

I think there is a thin line between whining and expressing concern. I own at Poipu and I didn't hear whining, I heard voices of concerned owners who have no interest in points, THE club, or the Trust. They are told by the sales people "join the trust or THE Club or you will never be able to get back into your resort." This raises eye-brows. 

A friend has four ocean front weeks, if he joined the Trust he would be double downgraded to almost "partial ocean view" and have to pay additional fees ($5000) to get to partial ocean view. When he said "no", he got the "join or else" speech. I know "consider the source."

It would be one thing to put your four ocean front weeks into the Trust and get enough points to get the ocean front weeks back, but to ask people to downgrade and pay to downgrade is totally unreasonable.

IMHO it raises some questions about what type of company would ask this of its deeded owners at Poipu? I think it's bad enough that MF went up at all the other resorts of the 'Hawaiian Collection" to make up for the effective reduction in fees of the Point owners that went into the trust.

DRI wants total control of the ocean front inventory because it can demand a premium price (point-wise) for them.

I have no complaints about what DRI has done with the physical plant at the Point. It looks great. Our unit had a new mattress, new bedding, and a new air conditioner. The carpet looked great. The grounds continue to look pretty good, albeit not like the grounds of the Hyatt!

I worked for a very, very large company and I have seen what big companies are capable of when the "marketing strategy" doesn't work. I am concerned.

JMHO.

Cheers,

Paul


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## pgnewarkboy (May 3, 2009)

*To DRI Bashers - check out this "heavy hitter"*

Although I feel it is fair for all to discuss the negatives of DRI ,  I think that DRI is particularly and unreasonably treated poorly by some posters.  Supposedly DRI is claimed to be so inferior to the big chains (Marriott often mentioned).

I suggest you check out this thread on the Marriott group.  Lets see what they are discussing 1. ridiculous mf increases 2. ridiculous special assessments 3. fraudulent sales practices 4. class action lawsuit.  Of course some posters say SSH! the poor publicity is hurting marriott value.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82564

I think some people demonize DRI while unduly inflating some other timeshare systems.

You might also want to check the thread on the devaluing of Marriott points.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96828


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## nightnurse613 (May 3, 2009)

Ouch!   Breathe, deep breaths, slowly. I agree that people do have a tendency to complain when things don't go their way.  My husband, on the other hand, is a freak because he goes out of his way to tell people that they are doing a good job (it's kind of funny to see the waiter when my husband asks to see the manager and then tells the manager what a great job their staff did!)  You can see the manager tense up as he approaches!  We have limited experience however, you can't please all the people all the time. We are concerned that last year's budget at Sedona Golf went up 22 percent thanks to admin costs (DRI) and the vote was 3-2 with the two non-DRI members voting against!  Overall tho, we have enjoyed our DRI experience and hope we can continue to (afford)! It seemed strange that other resorts in the same area were able to maintain their budgets but SGR generalized their increased costs.  I have no problem with increased fees if they are for legitimate reserves; otherwise, SHOW ME THE BEEF!


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## dougp26364 (May 3, 2009)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Although I feel it is fair for all to discuss the negatives of DRI ,  I think that DRI is particularly and unreasonably treated poorly by some posters.  Supposedly DRI is claimed to be so inferior to the big chains (Marriott often mentioned).
> 
> I suggest you check out this thread on the Marriott group.  Lets see what they are discussing 1. ridiculous mf increases 2. ridiculous special assessments 3. fraudulent sales practices 4. class action lawsuit.  Of course some posters say SSH! the poor publicity is hurting marriott value.
> 
> ...



While I might tend to agree with you more at this point than to disagree with you, your example isn't that sound. That's ONE Marriott resort out of many. DRI's problems have been across the board.

This year has seen several encouraging improvements by DRI. It will be interesting to see if they require MF increases along the lines of 10 to 25% again this year. Personally, MF increases won't bother me so much if those increases are in the form of higher cash reserve funding. I find that Marriott and Hilton require between $150 and $250 for their cash reserve funding while my two DRI weeks are less than $50. When the MF's are nearly equal, this disturbes me. Cash reserves protect the resort and the owners. I want the cash reserves at my resort to increase by 100% this year and another 50% next year. I want that money in reserves to offset future expenses, to pay for unforseen expenses and to help keep current MF's from going sky high to cover expenses not funded by adaquate cash reserves.

Please note that I'm requesting a cash reserve funding increase of 100% and 50%. That's NOT the total MF bill. Since cash reserves are only around $35 at my resorts, a 100% increase would only raise the MF by $35 and, the cash reserve funding would only be $70. IMO that's still inadaquate but it's a start. Increase that funding by another 50% next year and you're up to $105 but MF's would only increase by another $35 in that area. In reality, the reserves would need to go up another 50% for the 3rd and 4th year just to get cash reserve funding up to where it should have been all along. Those increase would get cash reserve funding up to $225 over 4 years without hitting owners so hard they scream. This, of course, is just my opinion.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 4, 2009)

dougp26364 said:


> While I might tend to agree with you more at this point than to disagree with you, your example isn't that sound. That's ONE Marriott resort out of many. DRI's problems have been across the board.
> 
> .



There have been other complaints about Marriott.  I just site this recent one and it is a WHOPPER!   It is far worse than the closing of a lounge at Polo Towers.   It is far worse than having some problems with reservations that have sent some DRI owners into apoplectic fits about DRI overall.  I have heard of nothing this bad with DRI. I must disagree with your statement about DRI complaints being "across the board".  I don't think that can be substantiated.  What you have is a few posters that have had some problems that are in no way near the magnitude of the Marriott Aruba problem. The Aruba problem and the devaluation of points problem could be indicative of an overall lack of concern for Marriott owners by Marriott and poor management practices.  What could be worse than shifting the cost of Marriott mistakes regarding shoddy construction of a mult-million dollar resort to the timeshare owners.  What does it say about Marriott management.


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## nightnurse613 (May 4, 2009)

Maybe, what John was trying to say can be summed up by the CFO of DRI:  *Mr. (David) Palmer said the 15% is the DRM’s profit margin, what DRI deems appropriate for being in the business of managing resorts.   Some resorts are already at the cost-plus-15%, others are at 10%, some are fixed, but DRM is bringing the management fee to 15% at all resorts across the board.  As it is difficult to derive costs, Mr. Palmer said he wanted to be really transparent with every HOA relationship and let the Association know the cost required managing and that DRM’s profit margin for that is 15%.  DRI is asking to transparently manage the resorts with a unified, simplified contract across the board.  DRI is in business to get a return on its investment, make money, and make sure the resorts are managed well.*  We know whose backs that will be laid on.    (Nice return in any economy especially one like this!)


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## pgnewarkboy (May 4, 2009)

nightnurse613 said:


> Maybe, what John was trying to say can be summed up by the CFO of DRI:  *Mr. (David) Palmer said the 15% is the DRM’s profit margin, what DRI deems appropriate for being in the business of managing resorts.   Some resorts are already at the cost-plus-15%, others are at 10%, some are fixed, but DRM is bringing the management fee to 15% at all resorts across the board.  As it is difficult to derive costs, Mr. Palmer said he wanted to be really transparent with every HOA relationship and let the Association know the cost required managing and that DRM’s profit margin for that is 15%.  DRI is asking to transparently manage the resorts with a unified, simplified contract across the board.  DRI is in business to get a return on its investment, make money, and make sure the resorts are managed well.*  We know whose backs that will be laid on.    (Nice return in any economy especially one like this!)




Assuming the quote is accurate that is absolutely stunning transparency.  Does Marriott, or Hilton, or any other timeshare company state what their profit margin is?  For all we know it could be 30%.  Certainly Ford, Safeway, the Yankees, or the local grocer doesn't tell ANYBODY (except perhaps a prospective purchaser) what their profit margin is.  DRI is one of the greatest companies in the history of capitalism for their unbelievable honesty.  I like to deal with honest businesses.

One of the tenets of business is to not let your competitors know about the costs and profits of your  business.  DRI is risking everything to be honest with the HOA's.  A truly great great business.


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## Guzzidave (May 4, 2009)

The trouble with "cost plus a percentage" fee structure is that there is little or no incentive for the management company to reduce costs - quite the reverse.  Having got rid of Macdonalds as management company at Loch Rannoch in Scotland, the club negotiated a deal with the new managers that gave them more money if they reduced the costs.  I believe that there has been no increase in MFs during the five years that I have owned there.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 4, 2009)

Guzzidave said:


> The trouble with "cost plus a percentage" fee structure is that there is little or no incentive for the management company to reduce costs - quite the reverse.  Having got rid of Macdonalds as management company at Loch Rannoch in Scotland, the club negotiated a deal with the new managers that gave them more money if they reduced the costs.  I believe that there has been no increase in MFs during the five years that I have owned there.




There are several ways at looking at contracting.  On the one hand your statement has some validity.  On the other hand, when there is strictly a fixed price contract and costs get to high, the company will usually cut services.  A company will not eat losses indefinitely.  If costs are difficult to determine a company will likely "guess" high at the price for their fees.  Cost plus contracts are very common in business. They are not always good and they are not always bad.  If you want to stay in business the incentive is to be competitive no matter what the formula.


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## ecwinch (May 4, 2009)

nightnurse613 said:


> Maybe, what John was trying to say can be summed up by the CFO of DRI:  *Mr. (David) Palmer said the 15% is the DRM’s profit margin, what DRI deems appropriate for being in the business of managing resorts.   Some resorts are already at the cost-plus-15%, others are at 10%, some are fixed, but DRM is bringing the management fee to 15% at all resorts across the board.  As it is difficult to derive costs, Mr. Palmer said he wanted to be really transparent with every HOA relationship and let the Association know the cost required managing and that DRM’s profit margin for that is 15%.  DRI is asking to transparently manage the resorts with a unified, simplified contract across the board.  DRI is in business to get a return on its investment, make money, and make sure the resorts are managed well.*  We know whose backs that will be laid on.    (Nice return in any economy especially one like this!)



It all depends on what you are calculating your margin on. If the intent is have a 15% margin on the cost to manage the resort, that is one thing.  But 15% of all the assessments is another thing entirely. 

In the first case, you have expenses that are simply pass through (property taxes, reserve funding, etc.). Their mgt has no impact on those costs. The 15% should logically only apply to those expenses that they actively manage (i.e. personnel, etc.). 

And as the other poster noted, in a "cost plus" contact, the mgt company has little incentive to effectively manage those costs.


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