# What are the things you don't like about the new Marriott points program?



## LAX Mom (Jun 21, 2010)

Someone else started a thread asking for posts about the positive things about the Marriott point system. I hate to be the negative one on TUG but in the interest of "fair and balanced" I thought I'd start another thread where we can list the terms of the new program we don't like.

1) No flexchange with the new Marriott points program

2) Marriott will be taking Marriott inventory from II to match requests placed by point owners. Doesn't seem fair to those of us who will continue to use II and will be trying to get some Marriott weeks. I guess this is how Marriott will obtain weeks without building new resorts. They'll grab Hawaii, ski weeks, summer beach weeks that are deposited with II and use them for inventory with this new system. 

3) New program is expensive. Initial cost ($9.2 per point) and MF ($400 per 1,000) have gone up dramatically. Figure it out for the resort you own. Multipy the number of points required by 9.2 and that's how much you would need to purchase for a weeks stay. A week that requires 4,500 to book will cost you 41,400 points. The MF would be over $1,600 per year. This is a big jump over the current prices Marriott was asking just last week. We all know those MF and point requirements will jump in the next few years. 

4) Can Marriott really deliver the inventory? Suppose someone signs up with the new points system then wants to book Ko'Olina or a Park City ski week. The Park City Marriotts are sold out, Marriott will only have inventory from owners who participate in the new points program or others who deposit a week with II. I'm not convinced Marriott can really deliver the nights/weeks new owners will want to book.

5) This new points system seems like a greedy attempt by Marriott to sell weeks at resorts that have been sold out for a long time. You know the salesmen will tempt people with all the options to stay at these wonderful Marriott resorts (many of which Marriott will actually have very little inventory). People will buy points thinking they can stay at Newport Coast or Hilton Head in the summer but will find it much more difficult than the sales reps have promised. 

others??


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## lll1929 (Jun 21, 2010)

1. Marriott's new program has the flexibility to allow you to check in any day of the week.  Only problem is, it takes more points on the new program to check in on a Wed.  They don't give me enough points on with the new pgm to check in and stay for a week. 

2. If you pay the annual $165 fee and you choose to use your unit as you do today and trade thru II, you still have to pay the II trade fees.


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## Latravel (Jun 21, 2010)

lll1929 said:


> 2. If you pay the annual $165 fee and you choose to use your unit as you do today and trade thru II, you still have to pay the II trade fees.



Are you sure?  I thought you only had to pay a trade fee if you traded outside of the Marriott system.  Marriott to Marriott trades were covered in the annual fee.


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## Janette (Jun 21, 2010)

Marriott to Marriott is paid in the club fees. There is no extra charge.


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## ArtsieAng (Jun 21, 2010)

1. I don't like that Marriott has not given me enough points to be able to reserve any week in my season.....This just doesn't sit well with me.

2. I don't like the fact that Marriott can increase the points needed to reserve days/week, at will.

3. I don't like that if I go to sell my week, it looks like I will not be turning over a deed, but rather a points package. 

4. I don't like the fact that Marriott is not allowing existing members to purchase less than 1000 points...........If I wanted to book my home resort, the same week that I own, I would need an additional 350 points to do so. I don't want to spend the money on 1000 more points, and don't even have the option to purchase the 350 points that I would need.

5. I don't like that Marriott can raid II at will, in order to fill the request for points. Where does that leave week owners that do not convert?

6. I don't like that there is no home resort priority, and that points can actually book at my home resort before me, based on how many points they own.........I may only be able to get a shoulder week, from this point forward. 


Those are just some that come to mind.


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## rsackett (Jun 21, 2010)

Janette said:


> Marriott to Marriott is paid in the club fees. There is no extra charge.




Are you sure?  I thought only points trades are pre-paid.  I think if you deposit a week with II and request a trade, any trade through II, you have to pay II's exchange fee.

Ray


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## Frisbeeace (Jun 21, 2010)

lll1929 said:


> 2. If you pay the annual $165 fee and you choose to use your unit as you do today and trade thru II, you still have to pay the II trade fees.



This is correct. You pay the annual $165 even if you decide to occupy or deposit your week with II. The II exchange fee (either internal or external) is on top of this.

I don't like that owners of Platinum week at most properties will never have the change again to trade it for a Platinum week at the most popular ones.

I don't like how low my Sabal Palms weeks have been valued and how low is their trading power 

I don't like that my 3 Platinum (red) weeks don't reach the 6,499 threshold so many owners will be able to book 1 month in advance at my own resort

I don't like that II recently offered a promo to renew the membership, which I accepted, knowing that it would be included in the new Club Dues.

I don't like to sign for a program forever, with no way out, whose fine print restricts how I can vote at my home resort if the Marriott administration is questioned.

I don't like that Marriott makes profit with the spread between how many points gives you for your week and how many points is required to book that same week, and this is valid for the trade-for-MR points and for the new Exchange Program.


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## mjkkb2 (Jun 22, 2010)

"...All reservations must be made by a designated Delegate. Exchange Company retains the right, to be exercised in Exchange Company’s reasonable discretion, to limit the number of Accommodations a Member may reserve for use by Family Members or Guests, regardless of the number of Exchange Points the Member has available for use..."


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## mjkkb2 (Jun 22, 2010)

"...In limitation of any privileges afforded to Members pursuant to Sections III.E. and III.F. of these Exchange Procedures, the ability of Members to bank or borrow Exchange Points, including, without limitation, the number of Exchange Points that may be banked or borrowed at any time by Members and the number of banking and borrowing transactions that may occur for any given Use Year, may be limited by Exchange Company in its sole and absolute discretion. Exchange Company also reserves the rights to suspend, terminate, or limit all banking and borrowing of Exchange Points at any time and to charge fees to Members for each banking or borrowing transaction conducted by the Members..."


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## mjkkb2 (Jun 22, 2010)

"...Exchange Company, in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion may limit, condition, suspend, terminate, or charge a fee for transfers of Exchange Points...."


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## mjkkb2 (Jun 22, 2010)

"...There is no guarantee that a Member will be able to use all of the Exchange Points in a Member’s Distribution each Use Year because the ability of a Member to use all of the Member’s Exchange Points in a given Use Year will depend on: (i) the Use Periods reserved by the Member, (ii) the Use Periods reserved by other Members, and (iii) the number of Exchange Points banked for use in the immediately following Use Year. *Consequently, Exchange Points may remain in the Member’s Distribution at the end of a given Use Year which are insufficient to reserve any Use Period and, thus, the Member will not be able to use such Exchange Points, and will not be permitted to carry over the unused, unbanked Exchange Points to the next Use Year’s Distribution.*..."


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## mjkkb2 (Jun 22, 2010)

"...Exchange Company, in its sole and absolute discretion, is entitled to amend these Exchange Procedures to modify or establish additional cancellation policies and charge cancellation fees from time to time..."

I do see alot of "exchange company can charge a fee" in their document.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 22, 2010)

mjkkb2 said:


> "...All reservations must be made by a designated Delegate. Exchange Company retains the right, to be exercised in Exchange Company’s reasonable discretion, to limit the number of Accommodations a Member may reserve for use by Family Members or Guests, regardless of the number of Exchange Points the Member has available for use..."



This is a condition of II's exchange system as well, at least with respect to Getaway purchases.


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## lll1929 (Jun 22, 2010)

I though of another one:

Several of us have obtained AWESOME Marriott to Marriott exchanges through II.  With the new system, there is NO such thing as an AWESOME trade!!!

Example, I traded my 1bdrm Aruba Ocean Club for a 3 bdrm Aruba Surf Club.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 22, 2010)

mjkkb2 said:


> "...There is no guarantee that a Member will be able to use all of the Exchange Points in a Member’s Distribution each Use Year because the ability of a Member to use all of the Member’s Exchange Points in a given Use Year will depend on: (i) the Use Periods reserved by the Member, (ii) the Use Periods reserved by other Members, and (iii) the number of Exchange Points banked for use in the immediately following Use Year. *Consequently, Exchange Points may remain in the Member’s Distribution at the end of a given Use Year which are insufficient to reserve any Use Period and, thus, the Member will not be able to use such Exchange Points, and will not be permitted to carry over the unused, unbanked Exchange Points to the next Use Year’s Distribution.*..."





mjkkb2 said:


> "...Exchange Company, in its sole and absolute discretion, is entitled to amend these Exchange Procedures to modify or establish additional cancellation policies and charge cancellation fees from time to time..."
> 
> I do see alot of "exchange company can charge a fee" in their document.



These (as well as other items related to fees) are conditions of the existing Weeks governing docs with MVCI.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 22, 2010)

mjkkb2 said:


> "...Exchange Company, in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion may limit, condition, suspend, terminate, or charge a fee for transfers of Exchange Points...."





mjkkb2 said:


> "...In limitation of any privileges afforded to Members pursuant to Sections III.E. and III.F. of these Exchange Procedures, the ability of Members to bank or borrow Exchange Points, including, without limitation, the number of Exchange Points that may be banked or borrowed at any time by Members and the number of banking and borrowing transactions that may occur for any given Use Year, may be limited by Exchange Company in its sole and absolute discretion. Exchange Company also reserves the rights to suspend, terminate, or limit all banking and borrowing of Exchange Points at any time and to charge fees to Members for each banking or borrowing transaction conducted by the Members..."



Points are a new to Marriott so there are no similar existing conditions in the governing docs with MVCI, but these are found in other existing points systems - DVC is one I'm aware of.


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## scrapngen (Jun 22, 2010)

Now THOSE are some scary limitations found in the contract!! Thanks for quoting all of those - now we'll REALLY stay away. 

Oh, some of my negatives...my Platinum Plus allocation of points will ONLY be enough to reserve the LOWEST valued weeks in the Platinum season at my resort.  

Other points systems seem to play fair with allocation vs. reservations. Not so for Marriott pretty much for everyone.

The very top tier will be allowed to reserve in a "swiss cheese" manner - 1 night at a time before anyone else can reserve in blocks of 7 or more days. 
Think what that will do to summer and ski weeks that are driving distance!!!

Marriott can change everything about this program at will, but you are stuck with your current points allocation. 

Future resale purchases can't buy in and will probably be assimilated by Marriott through ROFR if it is a valuable deed. 

No future home resort advantage if you wish to buy more points (can't imagine doing this under the new plan) and noone on various phone calls shared here seems to know what happens if you wish to sell points!!

Sales/phone staff seems very confused. So how can we feel confident about a purchase...


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## LAX Mom (Jun 22, 2010)

scrapngen said:


> The very top tier will be allowed to reserve in a "swiss cheese" manner - 1 night at a time before anyone else can reserve in blocks of 7 or more days.
> Think what that will do to summer and ski weeks that are driving distance!!!



This has the potential to be a huge nightmare! They sell lots of point to new members who are assured they can use these points at sold-out resorts. "yes you can use your points to stay at park city in ski season, hilton head during the summer......"

Honestly, I know points systems can work and be a viable option for developers and buyers. However, I think the basic problem here is that Marriott is trying to combine two programs. They've been selling timeshare weeks for 25 (?) years. Most of their popular resorts have already sold out. So they decide to try a points system (eliminates the need to build new resorts, they can just keep selling those popular weeks in the way of points). In combining an established weeks program with a points program they have made a huge mess.


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## Numismatist (Jun 22, 2010)

There needs to be a way to get this message out beyond TUG (not that TUG isn't great) but a viral campaign somehow.


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## Bill4728 (Jun 22, 2010)

LAX Mom said:


> 4) Can Marriott really deliver the inventory? Suppose someone signs up with the new points system then wants to book Ko'Olina or a Park City ski week. The Park City Marriotts are sold out, Marriott will only have inventory from owners who participate in the new points program or others who deposit a week with II. I'm not convinced Marriott can really deliver the nights/weeks new owners will want to book.
> 
> 5) This new points system seems like a greedy attempt by Marriott to sell weeks at resorts that have been sold out for a long time. You know the salesmen will tempt people with all the options to stay at these wonderful Marriott resorts (many of which Marriott will actually have very little inventory). People will buy points thinking they can stay at Newport Coast or Hilton Head in the summer but will find it much more difficult than the sales reps have promised.
> 
> others??


These two reason are IMHO the biggest negatives of this system. And are the reason I (as a single week Marriott TS owner) will not be joining this system.


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## Bill4728 (Jun 22, 2010)

> 2) Marriott will be taking Marriott inventory from II to match requests placed by point owners. Doesn't seem fair to those of us who will continue to use II and will be trying to get some Marriott weeks. I guess this is how Marriott will obtain weeks without building new resorts. They'll grab Hawaii, ski weeks, summer beach weeks that are deposited with II and use them for inventory with this new system.


 Is this true??

I thought that rather than taking inventory from II ( deposited by owners) that Marriott simply would no longer be depositing un-sold inventory into II any longer.


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## Slakk (Jun 22, 2010)

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## TheTimeTraveler (Jun 22, 2010)

Slakk said:


> I don't like that I have a written confirmation giving me one amount of points and now MVC is trying to take almost 1800 away from me AFTER I enrolled.




Why are they trying to take them away from you?


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## barco13 (Jun 22, 2010)

So if I understand this correctly (which is a big if), Marriott can take Marriott inventory from II whenever they want?  So if a non-Marriott owner has a pending request with II and the inventory becomes available, Marriott could take this week to fullfill a points request first?
I have been able to exchange my home week for a Marriott week a couple of times, which I view as a great value with II.  Not sure how great of a value II becomes for people if the likliehood of getting Marriott weeks decreases dramatically.  My understanding is RCI has more inventory (maybe just lesser quality sometimes).


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## esk444 (Jun 22, 2010)

Frisbeeace said:


> I don't like that II recently offered a promo to renew the membership, which I accepted, knowing that it would be included in the new Club Dues.



I thought if you had a multi-year agreement with RCI or II and cancelled, you could get your unused portion of your fees refunded.


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## scrapngen (Jun 22, 2010)

Slakk said:


> I don't like that I have a written confirmation giving me one amount of points and now MVC is trying to take almost 1800 away from me AFTER I enrolled.



I think you should start a new thread for ENROLLED members questions...seems like that would be very useful to both enrolled and unenrolled people.


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## Superchief (Jun 22, 2010)

Bill4728 said:


> Is this true??
> 
> I thought that rather than taking inventory from II ( deposited by owners) that Marriott simply would no longer be depositing un-sold inventory into II any longer.



According to the originally posted FAQ, inventory would include deposits made to Interval by those who are not enrolled in the program. The sales person I spoke with at Mountainside yesterday said that is not true, so it is difficult to know what will really happen.

This is my major concern regarding the program's impact on my ability to trade within Interval, since you cannot deposit lockoff weeks to use for points in the new program.


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## SueDonJ (Jun 22, 2010)

Slakk said:


> I don't like that I have a written confirmation giving me one amount of points and now MVC is trying to take almost 1800 away from me AFTER I enrolled.





scrapngen said:


> I think you should start a new thread for ENROLLED members questions...seems like that would be very useful to both enrolled and unenrolled people.



Yeah, this could possibly be a new thread.  Slakk, what if the glitches in the system had resulted in you being given first an amount of points LESS than what you are actually entitled to?  Would you have expected Marriott to honor that or to correct it?


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## Slakk (Jun 22, 2010)

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## SueDonJ (Jun 22, 2010)

I don't like that there isn't (yet?) a type of Flexchange period with reduced point costs.

I don't like that there isn't (yet?) a way to purchase any amount of points for one-time use, which could be used to cover a shortage for one specific reservation in one specific year.  Even a 100-point maximum could be a good option.

I don't like that existing Weeks which are enrolled do not have a priority window for reservations at the home resort.  One week would satisfy me.  (Although I think that this is impossible to implement and still satisfy the terms&conditions of both Weeks and Points systems.)


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## SueDonJ (Jun 22, 2010)

Slakk said:


> I contacted them yesterday after I saw it and asked if the amount was correct because it sure seemed REALLY good and the guy went and checked and said yep it was correct and said that's great for you.  I enrolled 10 minutes later.
> 
> So yes I expect them to honor it.  I'm waiting to hear back now from them as they are *researching* it.



I understand how it happened because it affected some folks who own SurfWatch the same way it affected you.  I'm definitely sympathetic and would hate to be in your shoes, but it seems there isn't any solution except to correct the mistakes from computer glitches.  If you are allotted an incorrect amount, shouldn't every owner who owns the same interval as you be allotted that incorrect amount?  And if it's similar to SurfWatch's glitch which gave 3BR point values for 2BR intervals, and the incorrect 2BR values are honored by Marriott, shouldn't the 3BR intervals be adjusted also?

Really, I'd be angry if this happened to me.  But I'd also be reasonable in my expectations, as difficult as it would be.


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## Slakk (Jun 22, 2010)

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## Superchief (Jun 22, 2010)

These are concerns I have regarding the new system. 
1. There will be a significant increase in housekeeping costs due to the shorter use options. I fear that this will greatly increase our MF for housekeeping.
2. Will home resort owners continue to enjoy a priority over the Preferred Points exchangers for villa assignment?
3. The options for lockoff usage and trades will be greatly diminished.


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## bogey21 (Jun 22, 2010)

*As an ex Marriott owner (I sold my Weeks about 5 years ago), my take is that the new System will work well for a relatively small few and to the detriment of the rest of you.

As a Marriott stockholder, I love it.  It will make Marriott more profitable.

George*


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## Numismatist (Jun 22, 2010)

bogey21 said:


> *As an ex Marriott owner (I sold my Weeks about 5 years ago), my take is that the new System will work well for a relatively small few and to the detriment of the rest of you.
> 
> As a Marriott stockholder, I love it.  It will make Marriott more profitable.
> 
> George*



Exactly...folks need to remember that, in reality, timeshare owners are NOT Marriott's customers, the stock shareholders ARE their customers.  It's that way with every corporation (or darned near every one).


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## dioxide45 (Jun 22, 2010)

*No Guest Certificates*

You would think this would be a positive because you think, no fee. No, it is no guests can use a points exchange week without the owner present. This limitation is removed when you book in the Open Reservation period of 60 days.


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## DanCali (Jun 22, 2010)

Did anyone already mention this?

Owner will not exercise any vote Owner may have in the owners" association ("Resort Association") operating the resort in which Owner's Timeshare Interest is located ("Resort") in a manner that is, in MVCEC's reasonable discretion, detrimental to the Program, including, without limitation, voting to limit or terminate the Resort's participation in the Program. 

If so, sorry to repeat...


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## CapriciousC (Jun 22, 2010)

I don't like that the European resorts are not included - we've exchanged in the past (through II) for Playa Andaluza and would like to check out the other resorts in Spain and France, but they're not part of the program.  This detracts greatly from the appeal of the program, for us and our travel interests.

With regard to the resorts in Florida, I don't think it's much of a deal.  We travel to Orlando at least six times a year, and always stay at Marriott timeshare resorts.  In the last nine months, I have booked 2-bedroom villas at Grande Vista, Cypress Harbour, and Harbour Lake, and have never paid more than $160 a night.  This has been during Thanksgiving week, Christmas week, spring break, etc.  I currently have a reservation for a 1-bedroom villa at Grande Vista for the last week of July for $110 a night.  Why on earth would I trade my Waiohai week when they're practically giving away Florida resorts?  (By the way, I always use the "MOD" discount code when booking Orlando - it's awesome).  

I also don't really understand how they've valued the different resorts.  With the points they would give me for my Waiohai week, I can't even get a week at any of the Maui resorts in an equivalent unit.


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## gmarine (Jun 22, 2010)

Numismatist said:


> Exactly...folks need to remember that, in reality, timeshare owners are NOT Marriott's customers, the stock shareholders ARE their customers.  It's that way with every corporation (or darned near every one).



You have it reversed. The shareholders are the owners as they are in every public company. The timeshare owners are the customers.


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## gmarine (Jun 22, 2010)

DanCali said:


> Did anyone already mention this?
> 
> Owner will not exercise any vote Owner may have in the owners" association ("Resort Association") operating the resort in which Owner's Timeshare Interest is located ("Resort") in a manner that is, in MVCEC's reasonable discretion, detrimental to the Program, including, without limitation, voting to limit or terminate the Resort's participation in the Program.
> 
> If so, sorry to repeat...



Even if I loved the program this alone would stop me from joining. Marriott has the right to change just about anything they want in the program and by joining you give up the right to vote against these changes with your HOA. 

YOU GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE YOUR OPINION WHEN YOU JOIN.


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## DanCali (Jul 18, 2010)

ArtsieAng said:


> 4. I don't like the fact that Marriott is not allowing existing members to purchase less than 1000 points...........If I wanted to book my home resort, the same week that I own, I would need an additional 350 points to do so. I don't want to spend the money on 1000 more points, and don't even have the option to purchase the 350 points that I would need.



See this thread for a more detailed discussion on "skimming," which should be viewed as another cost of the points system and incurred each time you convert to points. 

The first post in that thread also contains a link to a spreadsheet computing the average points required to trade into each season at each resort. While you would probably not use points to book a high demand week at your home resort, getting less than the "fair value" of the trading power of your season affects your ability to do like for like exchanges to similar resorts. Since all owners seem to have gotten less than the average of their season, this represents a loss of points by each owner and by owners in the aggregate. The documents are silent as to who benefits from that and how... 

You can also access that spreadsheet from this link.


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## rsnash (Nov 18, 2010)

I just reviewed the program and see absolutely no benefits to me. I would not be able to trade into any of the other Marriott's I've traded into in the past with the points they'd allot me for my week at Fairway Villas. 

I did see one possible benefit from the program website though... This link https://www.my-vacationclub.com/en-us/owners/pointsintro/discover.html allows you to see how many points it would take to stay at the various resorts. To see the best week I could reserve, I reviewed the number it would points it would take to stay at my resort for the various check in day for a week. I always figured Thanksgiving week would be a good trade. But weeks in October are valued more highly. Perhaps having one of these weeks to deposit at II would increase my trade value?


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## bobpark56 (Nov 21, 2010)

If you also own outside the Marriott system, you must retain your II membership if you wish to trade those units. Hence no saving (for me) from joining Marriott Points.


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## wof45 (Nov 21, 2010)

what about the savings from no lockoff fees, no trade fees or no conversion to Marriott Points for your Marriott week?


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## GreenEyedGuru (Nov 21, 2010)

wof45 said:


> what about the savings from no lockoff fees, no trade fees or no conversion to Marriott Points for your Marriott week?



Those savings appear to have been made up for by the skimming.

Hi everyone, new poster here.. I had to register after reading about 20 pages of the megapost on skimming.

I'd say the thing I like least about the points system (and I didn't see this anywhere in the other thread) is this:

It puts inflation back into the system.  

One of the biggest selling points (for me, at least) when I decided to buy my week was the chart the salesperson pulled out that showed the cost comparison between staying in my deeded property vs. staying in a hotel over 30 years.

The value proposition was that the timeshare was "inflation proof".  Yes, maintenance fees would increase, but by an amount much less than hotel room costs would (this turns out to be false as well, from what I've read).

By instituting this new system, Marriott has injected inflation back into the system with their ability to raise point costs at will.

So I won't be buying in.

Another reason I was looking at the new system was to potentially bank a week and travel with family the following year.  Unfortunately it looks like a like-for-like exchange will be impossible with the new system due to the skimming/breakage/theft/whatever you want to call it.

Also, I think the $600 buy in cost is ridiculous.  Marriott needs my week much more than I need their points system, if they want me in it they should be giving it to me for free.


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## Big Matt (Nov 21, 2010)

Depending on how you use your week, it could take 10-20 years to recoup your $1995.  By then who knows what Marriott will look like.



wof45 said:


> what about the savings from no lockoff fees, no trade fees or no conversion to Marriott Points for your Marriott week?


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## wof45 (Nov 21, 2010)

this year, we paid the $1995, and we did not pay the $130 three times for selecting marriott rewards points, and we did a lockoff and deposit for one of this year's thansgiving weeks so no lockoff fee and two trade fees we won't pay.  We also cancelled the other two thanksgiving weeks and got DC points for them, then used DC points at half price for a december week at Oceanna Palms and used DC points for a February 2011 week at Beach Place towers.

So we also did not have to pay the membership fee this year or next year, and received an extra 800 DC points for converting.

I think we'll have recouped our $1995 in two years, and can now also get MRP points for the two resale weeks.   We use MRP since I only get 5 weeks vacation, the rental market is terrible and we already have 5 weeks deposited in II.

So for us, the DC club works really well


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## Big Matt (Nov 22, 2010)

That's great.  I'm glad you joined.

Here's another scenario.

I own two weeks.  I lock off one every year and keep the other as a 2BR.  So each year I have a $75 fee.  I exchange every week I have, so that would be $327 for a total of $402 per year. Since I have non-Marriotts I still need to pay for the II fee.  I will pay the $199 per year to Marriott for my combined fees. My net savings will be $203 per year.  In my case I get a pay back in about 10 years.  

Of course that $199 could become a lot higher going forward. It won't go lower, trust me.

I need to see more before I plunk down 2 grand to join.



wof45 said:


> this year, we paid the $1995, and we did not pay the $130 three times for selecting marriott rewards points, and we did a lockoff and deposit for one of this year's thansgiving weeks so no lockoff fee and two trade fees we won't pay.  We also cancelled the other two thanksgiving weeks and got DC points for them, then used DC points at half price for a december week at Oceanna Palms and used DC points for a February 2011 week at Beach Place towers.
> 
> So we also did not have to pay the membership fee this year or next year, and received an extra 800 DC points for converting.
> 
> ...


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## ppredhomme (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't like they didn't give me enough points (Maui Ocean Club) to visit my own home resort any week of the year.

I also don't like how gone are days that you could trade with II for a unit much larger than you own.  Technically they might say it's still possible, but it seems so unlikely since Marriott will be keeping the inventory for the points people.  

I'm not going into points system at this time.


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## GreenEyedGuru (Nov 22, 2010)

Big Matt said:


> That's great.  I'm glad you joined.
> 
> Here's another scenario.
> 
> ...



Do you still save when you factor in the 7-10% point graft?


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## indyhorizons (Nov 23, 2010)

wof45 said:


> this year, we paid the $1995, and we did not pay the $130 three times for selecting marriott rewards points, and we did a lockoff and deposit for one of this year's thansgiving weeks so no lockoff fee and two trade fees we won't pay.  We also cancelled the other two thanksgiving weeks and got DC points for them, then used DC points at half price for a december week at Oceanna Palms and used DC points for a February 2011 week at Beach Place towers.
> 
> So we also did not have to pay the membership fee this year or next year, and received an extra 800 DC points for converting.
> 
> ...



Is all this canceling and rebooking a normal year for you? If so, no offense, I would just recommend that you plan better, that would reduce alot of fees... Just my two cents.


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## wof45 (Nov 23, 2010)

perhaps you don't understand --
we have 5 weeks so used to pay a lot of fees since we have had these weeks for 10-20 years and do not use them the way we did in the past.

we get rewards points for 2 or 3 of the weeks since we have a limited number of vacation weeks, and the rental markets are so bad that points are better than what we get in rent.

For trades, we usually split the lockoffs and trade on II, so there is a fee to split and then a fee to book the weeks.

last year was 2 fees for MRP, 1 fee for lockoff, 2 fees for booking through II, and 2 weeks left to use for Thanksgiving.

When no-one could come this year, we were able to get DC points for the two thanksgiving week -- using one weeks points for Oceanna Palms in December and the other week for Beachplace towers in February.

If we can continue to get the times we want using DC points, we will be happy with DC even if we never got reduced fees.


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## Tommy_Boy (Nov 23, 2010)

*Where Marriott gets the inventory*

Bill, per below (just based on my reading from various threads), I have always been under the impression that they would have only the same ability to take inventory from II that anyone else with weeks to deposit would have.  If they can truly raid II, that would be of GREAT concern to me, but I don't see how that would realistically work.  what do you think?



Bill4728 said:


> Is this true??
> 
> I thought that rather than taking inventory from II ( deposited by owners) that Marriott simply would no longer be depositing un-sold inventory into II any longer.


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## wof45 (Nov 23, 2010)

the scenario I see for Marriott raiding II is:

someone deposits a great Marriott week into II

Marriott has a program that recognizes great weeks

Since it is Marriott, it has a first look at inventory when other Marriott owners do, except that they have a program that automates the decision and exchange

Marriott does an exchange of a week in its inventory for the great week in II

Pretty Scarey, Huh?


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## burg1121 (Nov 23, 2010)

aren't you assuming that there is no request for that prime week and that marriotts program is faster than II's match program? Or do we now think that II is giving marriott first dibs on deposits.


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## wof45 (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't think Marriott needs first dibs.  there really aren't that many requests outstanding.  although, it would not surprise me if Marriott did have first dibs on Marriott weeks since we already know that a Marriott owner will match a Marriott Deposit when they first happen and are not yet made available to non-member II members.

Since we have some non-Marriott traders, I also guess that the Marriott desk that used to apply to these won't work for me any longer as a points owner.  Maybe I need to buy another Marriott resale


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## judys19058 (Nov 23, 2010)

As long as this thread is still on going, I'll put my 2 cents in.

A big negative is there would be not more trading up.  I am very successful trading lock-offs for 1 and 2 bedroom units.  No more under the new system. 

Also, you give up your right to vote on some issues in your home resorts.  I would never give up my right to speak on any issue, not with the high maintenance fees we currently pay.


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## OldPantry (Jan 7, 2011)

*A Points Analysis, money actually spent*

I'm a Ko Olina mountainview owner, looking for a realistic comparison with what I have now.  Here's what the "real" costs would be for buying enough points to get a 2BR in low season:
4050 points, @ $9.2/point = $37260.  
Yearly opportunity cost for investment @ 5%:   
$1863.  
Maintenance fee ($.40/point) 
$1620
Yearly fee:
$165
Total 
$3648, or $521 a night!
Sorry, but where are the savings?  Even Marriott will rent you a villa for $3223 (I just looked it up with the MOD discount).  And nobody in their right mind would go through Marriott if they could buy a week from an owner (which seems to be available for around $2000-2500).  Even just getting a AAA discount through Marriott would be the exact same cost as above, $3654. Bottom line: you'd have to be nuts to lock up the money.     
BTW: this is a low season analysis, and doesn't reflect the rate hikes they're promising ($10/point).
A comparison with an existing $30,000 lockoff unit, purchased from Marriott before the Vacation Points era:
$30,000 @ 5% 
$1500
Maintenance
$1620
Fees
$250?  Less, if just doing a lockoff, not exchanging out of home resort.
Total: $3370, or $240/night for 1BR 7 nights + lockoff 7 nights. The 2BR (7 nights) would cost $446/night.  
By the way, buy a week as a resale (I just got an even year for $8500), and the costs drop considerably.  Figuring Even/Odd at $17,000, nightly cost goes down to $194/night. An annual week can probably be had for even less. 
The comparison with buying enough Marriott points for the same usage?
4550 points @ $9.2 = $41860.
Opportunity cost @ 5% = $2093
Maintenance @ $.40 = $1820
Fees: $165
Total = 4078, or $291/night.  
Note about opportunity cost:  I've guessed 5% as a conservative minimum.  That would be what you might get from a long term corporate bond, or a utility.  The cost would probably be higher, if you borrowed the money.  At any rate, there IS an opportunity cost for the money paid to Marriott (or a resale owner), and you'd be foolish to ignore it.


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## wof45 (Jan 7, 2011)

while I support the idea of just renting in today's economy and not owning at all.  I believe you are a little sloppy in your comparison.

in this environment, you would not get 5% in any sort of conservation investment, more likely no better than 1 1/2%

In your points version, you used a 2BR, but went with a 1BR and Studio and divided by 14 days in your second analysis

congrats on your low price purchase.


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## ocdb8r (Jan 7, 2011)

lll1929 said:
			
		

> 2. If you pay the annual $165 fee and you choose to use your unit as you do today and trade thru II, you still have to pay the II trade fees.





Frisbeeace said:


> This is correct. You pay the annual $165 even if you decide to occupy or deposit your week with II. The II exchange fee (either internal or external) is on top of this.



In my experience, this is NOT correct.  I reserved a unit at my home resort, locked=it off, and deposited into II without paying any fee.  I have now requested exchanges for both halves of my unit and no fee was charged as long as my request only include Marriott resorts.


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## ocdb8r (Jan 7, 2011)

wof45 said:


> while I support the idea of just renting in today's economy and not owning at all.  I believe you are a little sloppy in your comparison.
> 
> in this environment, you would not get 5% in any sort of conservation investment, more likely no better than 1 1/2%
> 
> ...



30-year T-Bill is currently yielding 4.49% so he's not THAT far off...and that's the MOST conservative investment you can get IMO...you can certainly stay conservative and increase your yield.


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## wof45 (Jan 7, 2011)

ocdb8r said:


> 30-year T-Bill is currently yielding 4.49% so he's not THAT far off...and that's the MOST conservative investment you can get IMO...you can certainly stay conservative and increase your yield.



you actually can't invest in a 30-year t-bill without a million dollar investment.
in the real world, rates are much lower.


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## wof45 (Jan 7, 2011)

I think it would surprise most people what the US t-bill rates actually are --

4 week t-bill is 0.10%
13 weeks - 0.15%
26 weeks - 0.19%
52 weeks - 0.27%

the Money Market treasuries funds overnight are 0-0.14


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## gabrielij (Jan 7, 2011)

ocdb8r said:


> In my experience, this is NOT correct.  I reserved a unit at my home resort, locked=it off, and deposited into II without paying any fee.  I have now requested exchanges for both halves of my unit and no fee was charged as long as my request only include Marriott resorts.



did you get a match? If yes, was it a like-kind exchange or were you able to trade up as we all used to do in the past?


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## davidn247 (Jan 7, 2011)

The discussion regarding the cost of purchasing ($10 per point) and maintenance (40 cents per point/year) is very interesting. I do not know how they came with this, but it seems not very economical.

In general, resale owners bought approx. 2 to 3 times lower than official price and could be now experiencing maintenance costs converted to points similar or lower than 40 cents (3BR Grande Vista = 0.335 cents, 3'725 points divided per $1'250 maintenance incl. all others).

If you are looking for MCV points, look on Ebay. Some owners are selling their (maintenance) points at 0.55 cents per points. This seems to be a better deal.

Frankly, I do not see the value of further buying points from them. When you think about it, what are you really buying? Can someone tell me? A currency that you do not control and can be devaluated at their discretion? Maybe I missed something, but it seems Marriott became like the Fed... Not sure how all this is regulated (how does the Trust work) but their can decide overtime to request more yearly points to book days/weeks at key resorts.


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## wof45 (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't know all the details, but basically, the trust is a real estate trust set up in Florida.  points come in 250 point batches.  The total of the value of all point batches is the value of the weeks that marriott put in.  The total points that can be taken out of inventory is the same total, so they have point values for day reservations that total over all weeks in the trust.   So, if the point cost for one reservation goes up, the point value for another reservation must go down.

I believe they can change the point value awarded to legacy points to interface with the trust points.  It wouldn't surprise me if they made these changes to make supply = demand, between legacy points and trust points, just as they will make supply = demand for reservations within the trust.


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## ocdb8r (Jan 7, 2011)

wof45 said:


> you actually can't invest in a 30-year t-bill without a million dollar investment.
> in the real world, rates are much lower.



But you can easily gain exposure to long term treasuries via investments open to individuals in much smaller amounts.  The iShares Barclays 20+ Year Treasury ETF is just one example.

Bottom line is that 5% was not off base to calculate a rate of return for a long time horizon.  52-week t-bill returns are certainly not a good basis of comparison for a long term purchase such as a timeshare.


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## ocdb8r (Jan 7, 2011)

gabrielij said:


> did you get a match? If yes, was it a like-kind exchange or were you able to trade up as we all used to do in the past?



I did not get a match yet, however based on searches of what is currently available (instant exchange) I would be able to trade up (and NOT only for units inside the flexchange window).  For example, I can see 2 and 3 bedroom units at Club Sol Antem with my lock-off...granted they are in March and November (shoulder seasons) but I think that's a result of what happens to be in inventory and/or the power of my Gold season unit.


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## wof45 (Jan 7, 2011)

ocdb8r said:


> But you can easily gain exposure to long term treasuries via investments open to individuals in much smaller amounts.  The iShares Barclays 20+ Year Treasury ETF is just one example.
> 
> Bottom line is that 5% was not off base to calculate a rate of return for a long time horizon.  52-week t-bill returns are certainly not a good basis of comparison for a long term purchase such as a timeshare.



an ETF is hardly a conservative investment.
perhaps you should take a look at the chart for TLT.
this is 3.4% for the past year, -11.9% for the past 3 months.

the better the economy does, the worse this ETF will do.


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## ocdb8r (Jan 7, 2011)

wof45 said:


> an ETF is hardly a conservative investment.
> perhaps you should take a look at the chart for TLT.
> this is 3.4% for the past year, -11.9% for the past 3 months.
> 
> the better the economy does, the worse this ETF will do.



Again, over a longer time horizon returns will approximate the return of the bonds held, less the expense ratio.  We're not talking about short-term 12 month time horizons.  If you're happy to accept 1.5% as a "conservative" investment return, more power to you.  I disagree that 5% was an off-base estimate for a long term time horizon.

This isn't an investment forum, so rather than take my or wof45's word for it, anyone interested in doing a comparison of owning vs. renting can use the Spreadsheet posted here on Tug.  http://www.tug2.net/advice/Timeshare_Ownership_Cost_Comparison.xls  That way you can put in whatever investment return YOU feel is reasonable.


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## OldPantry (Jan 10, 2011)

Guys,

I'm thrilled at the vibrant response to my analysis.  But sloppy?  SLOPPY?
Well, my wife might agree.  

I would emphasize what ocdb8r says about returns.  Since a timeshare is a long term commitment, the opportunity cost should also reflect a long-term investment alternative.  There are tons of bonds out there yielding over 5%, if bought long term.  Just one example: Goldman Sachs  6.75% due 10/1/37, valued today at 101.8 to yield 6.6% rated A2/A-.  I know these bonds well ... I own a ton of them.  Yeah, they're  way out there.  But guess what, your Marriott "investment" is eternal!  So, end of discussion, 5% long term is totally doable, and pretty safely.

As to wof45's comment about my points analysis.   I think he's accusing me of an apples and oranges comparison.  I think I was simply running through the two most likely points scenarios.

My first analysis assumes the purchase of enough points to nab a low-season Ko Olina 2BR.  The second explores the real cost of mirroring what many weeks owners do: exercising their lockoff privilege to get two weeks of usage for the single week.  Since this would now require extra points, I thought it would be interesting to explore that too.  I did use Ko Olina point requirements; but that's not exactly improbable (at least for a Ko Olina owner).  I think other resort/week scenarios would be very similar.

My fee estimates were a guess.  I don't think they matter much, as they represent a fairly tiny part of the real costs.

The $9.2/point cost going up to $10 is straight from a Ko Olina salesman (Jeff Miller), as is the annual $.40/point maintenance fee.


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## CatJ114683 (Jan 11, 2011)

We are currently at Grande Vista and have just come from our 3rd explaination of the point system. (Earlier sessions at HHI and Williamsburg) I am not quite sure why we would give up our deeded week in return for a very small slice of a much larger pie.  Since this new points system is basically a REITs investment,  we have not been able to get any clear cut answer on what would happen if Marriott were to fail, although we did get an emphatic 'No it is not really a REIT.. "     In a true REIT, if it fails, you are out.  Can anyone tell me what would happen in the instance of Marriott failing?  
Also, the cost to invest more $$ in this new trust does not seem to be a very good return on investment.  For nearly 15K you can buy 1500 additional points and incur an additional $600 per year maintenance charge.  Perhaps the Marriott program is just now to rich for our blood.  On the other hand, if "everybody" is buying into the new program and will not be trading through II, that will make our deposit into II that much more desirable.


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## TheTimeTraveler (Jan 11, 2011)

CatJ114683 said:


> We are currently at Grande Vista and have just come from our 3rd explaination of the point system. (Earlier sessions at HHI and Williamsburg) I am not quite sure why we would give up our deeded week in return for a very small slice of a much larger pie.  Since this new points system is basically a REITs investment,  we have not been able to get any clear cut answer on what would happen if Marriott were to fail, although we did get an emphatic 'No it is not really a REIT.. "     In a true REIT, if it fails, you are out.  Can anyone tell me what would happen in the instance of Marriott failing?
> Also, the cost to invest more $$ in this new trust does not seem to be a very good return on investment.  For nearly 15K you can buy 1500 additional points and incur an additional $600 per year maintenance charge.  Perhaps the Marriott program is just now to rich for our blood.  On the other hand, if "everybody" is buying into the new program and will not be trading through II, that will make our deposit into II that much more desirable.





Who says anything about giving up your deeded week?   Enrolling your week just allows you more options, but you never give up your deed.

You can use your week traditionally (as you always have), or you can enhance it's use.

Buying points is another issue, but there's no reason you really need to unless you really want to.




.


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## OldPantry (Jan 21, 2011)

*What if you just buy points?*

Since the points program is clearly a hard sell for existing weeks owners, I thought I'd run a couple of scenarios for the real targets: new customers who don't own already.
1.  Buy the minimum of 1500 points @ $10/point.  
Here you're shelling out $15000.  As a company, Marriott can immediately invest that money.  If they can't make 5%, then they need new management.  But you too can get at least 5% yearly on that money (invested long-term).  So, opportunity cost, per year, is at least $750.  Maintenance fee will now be $600.  $165 all-inclusive fee.  Total of $1515.  That's $303/night, if you only get five nights (and you will, you will).  
In most cases, 1500 points gets a low (mud) season villa for five week nights.  A random example: three coastal Florida VCs, whose LOWEST nightly charge is 200 points, with some OK weeks (summer, pretty hot) at 300, but most of the desirable weeks at 500 or more for a weekday 2BR.  I looked up charges for May 15-20, five 300 point nights.  BeachPlace Towers will rent for $189/night, Ocean Pointe for $239 and Oceana Palms for $349.  That's without any discounts (AAA, senior).  Put in senior, and the prices drop to $161, 195 and 295.  And with a MOD (weeks owner-yeah I know, a bit off topic) discount, even Oceana Palms drops to $227.  Only Oceana Palms, without a discount, might possibly make sense, but keep in mind that it's probably the most popular VC in Florida, since it's new.  Can you get the days you want on points?
2.  Bite the bullet and buy 4600 points, enough (or nearly) to get a high season 2BR week in most VCs.  Yearly opportunity cost on $46000 = $2300.  Maintenance of $1840.  Fee $165.  Total = $4305.  That's $615/night!  $615!
No beach front, no ocean view, no 3BR (at least in Hawaii)!  To rent, say Ko Olina, mountainview for July (4575 points) is $484/night, without a discount. 

If you have any willingness to consider the time value of money, Marriott Vacation points make no economic sense whatsoever.  You end up paying more for the weeks than you would simply buying direct from Marriott.  Your "flexibility" depends on snagging the days/weeks you want, with no guarantee they'll be available.  If you buy direct, then you know immediately what's available and plan accordingly.

Also, what happens if you want to sell your points later on?  What if they drop in value, as has always been the case with traditional Marriott timeshares?  You can then factor that loss into the nightly cost of your days and weeks, and get totally sick to your stomach.

AND, if you can't sell them, will you also have the maintenance charges hanging on you, just like regular timeshare users?  I think so.  You might not even be able to give your points away (impossible?  Just ask all those guys trying to "sell" their timeshares on Ebay for $1).


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## noodlethepoodle (Jan 27, 2011)

Hope to straighten a misconception.  Anyone enrolled in the points program can still call owner's services and reserve a week in his/her season without incurring any extra charges or needing more points.

It is when somebody wants to TRADE into the resort using DC points that person has to use more points than Marriott would give the owner for that week.

ie.  I own platinum at Cypress Harbor and Imperial Palms (Orlando).  I called owner services 13 months in advance and reserved Feb. break week for 2012.  I have a request 1st request  using those weeks.  If my request does not come through by 9/30/11 I can exchange those weeks for DC points.

Be aware,  Marriott has imposed a Sept 30th deadline for exchanging for DCpoints.  Also you must use your DC points in the year in which they are issued or by JUNE 30th you must tell Marriott that you want to bank the points for next year's usage.  In addition, if you chaange your mind in say Sept. and you want to use the points that you banked you must now BORROW from the next year.  What a cumbersome and user unfriendly system.

It would be much better if you could just accumulate and use DC points the way you can do with Marriott reward points.

My big Complaint is that when I bought DC points I was told that they could be used just as currency.  Within reason I could reserve anything at anytime.  Now, 12 months in advance I want to reserve a week in St. Thomas to go with the platinum week that I already own and reserved with owner services.  I was put on a wait list because no owner has put his/her week at Frenchman's Cove in for DC points.  So what's the difference between waiting for II to get me a week at Frenchman's Cove and being on the DC points wait list?

I also requested the same week using Imperial Palms.  I'll let you know which wait list comes through 1st.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 27, 2011)

noodlethepoodle said:


> So what's the difference between waiting for II to get me a week at Frenchman's Cove and being on the DC points wait list?



Nothing really. And I think this is where Marriott is falsely advertising this program. They are selling it as a reservation program, when in reality it is an exchange company, just like II. I haven't seen anywhere other than in the disclosure and procedure documents where they mention the words exchange company.


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## Superchief (Jan 27, 2011)

I recently learned that if you do borrow points from the following year and later cancel the points reservation, those borrowed points must be used in the current year. For example, if I borrow points from 2012 to confirm a reservation in 2011 and later cancel that reservation, those borrowed 2012 points must be used in 2011. I did not see any information regarding this issue in the DC t&C or FAQ, but only learned this from a recent experience.


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## DanCali (Jan 27, 2011)

Superchief said:


> I recently learned that if you do borrow points from the following year and later cancel the points reservation, those borrowed points must be used in the current year. For example, if I borrow points from 2012 to confirm a reservation in 2011 and later cancel that reservation, those borrowed 2012 points must be used in 2011. I did not see any information regarding this issue in the DC t&C or FAQ, but only learned this from a recent experience.



Interesting... Starwood is definitely not like that (also from experience).

With Starwood you can borrow points from next year (but have to prepay MFs) and combine with current year points to make a reservation. If you cancel, the points go back to their respective use years. 

I bought Marriott to diversify Starwood and to get access to the Marriott resorts, I'm liking Starwood more as I read this board...


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## SueDonJ (Jan 28, 2011)

There is a similar restriction on banked Points - they must be used during the Use Year to which they're banked or you forfeit them.

The banking and borrowing stipulations are contained in Sections III. E. and F. on page 4 of the Exchange Procedures document.

***
Nothing to do with the OP but the links I use for the docs are the ones from davidvel's post shortly after the DC was introduced.  I haven't seen him around at all and I've been wondering where he's been and hoping he's okay, just like I've been thinking the same about our fearless leader.


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## siesta (Jan 28, 2011)

> I recently learned that if you do borrow points from the following year and later cancel the points reservation, those borrowed points must be used in the current year. For example, if I borrow points from 2012 to confirm a reservation in 2011 and later cancel that reservation, those borrowed 2012 points must be used in 2011. I did not see any information regarding this issue in the DC t&C or FAQ, but only learned this from a recent experience.


 Wyndham is the same way. Borrowed points that are cancelled return to current use year, not the use year borrowed from.


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## Eli Mairs (Jan 28, 2011)

Superchief said:


> I recently learned that if you do borrow points from the following year and later cancel the points reservation, those borrowed points must be used in the current year. For example, if I borrow points from 2012 to confirm a reservation in 2011 and later cancel that reservation, those borrowed 2012 points must be used in 2011. I did not see any information regarding this issue in the DC t&C or FAQ, but only learned this from a recent experience.



This is how it works with Disney Vacation Club. 
Once points are borrowed, they must be used in the current use year.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> Nothing to do with the OP but the links I use for the docs are the ones from davidvel's post shortly after the DC was introduced.  I haven't seen him around at all and I've been wondering where he's been and hoping he's okay, just like I've been thinking the same about our fearless leader.



Looking at Davidvel's profile, it appears he his still around watching, just not posting. Visited today, but hasn't posted since July 2010.


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## Superchief (Jan 29, 2011)

This policy is confusing. So I can cancel my reservation and my remaining current year DC points can be banked for usage in the following year (if done by 6/30), but the points I have borrowed from next year must still be used this year. This just doesn't make sense and is a major flaw in the program.

It is already very difficult to effectively use all of my points in a given year, since 'trust' points can't be combined with enrolled points for an individual nights. I think MVC may make more money from expiring points than they will from the skim.


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## ocdb8r (Jan 29, 2011)

DanCali said:


> Interesting... Starwood is definitely not like that (also from experience).
> 
> With Starwood you can borrow points from next year (but have to prepay MFs) and combine with current year points to make a reservation. If you cancel, the points go back to their respective use years.
> 
> I bought Marriott to diversify Starwood and to get access to the Marriott resorts, I'm liking Starwood more as I read this board...



You have to keep in mind though that Starwood points can only be borrowed for reservations within 90 days...whereas DC points can be borrowed 30 months out.


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## SueDonJ (Jan 29, 2011)

Superchief said:


> This policy is confusing. So I can cancel my reservation and my remaining current year DC points can be banked for usage in the following year (if done by 6/30), but the points I have borrowed from next year must still be used this year. This just doesn't make sense and is a major flaw in the program.
> 
> It is already very difficult to effectively use all of my points in a given year, since 'trust' points can't be combined with enrolled points for an individual nights. I think MVC may make more money from expiring points than they will from the skim.



I think that's a built-in with any Points program, that the timeshare company stands to benefit from those owners whose usage doesn't match their Points.  But it's no different, really, from the companies benefiting when Weeks owners don't use their ownership.  It sounds crazy to all of us TUGgers because we're all in The Game to get as much usage as possible - and then some  - out of what we own.  But we've all heard stories about folks who don't bother to put any effort at all into it and their weeks just go unused.


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## wof45 (Jan 29, 2011)

SueDonJ said:


> I think that's a built-in with any Points program, that the timeshare company stands to benefit from those owners whose usage doesn't match their Points.  But it's no different, really, from the companies benefiting when Weeks owners don't use their ownership.  It sounds crazy to all of us TUGgers because we're all in The Game to get as much usage as possible - and then some  - out of what we own.  But we've all heard stories about folks who don't bother to put any effort at all into it and their weeks just go unused.



Actually, we used to have an RCI points TS, and we thought RCI points worked really well.  never a problem with borrowing or banking, and I loved that you could use way fewer points to get a week during the equivalent of flexchange using points.

Now, what was available for use on RCI, we didn't care much for, but that is a different problem.  We tried a 2-day reservation in Las Vegas before a MGC week, and had to drive to Mesquite NV, which was an experience.


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## KathyPet (Jan 29, 2011)

I still think finding inventory to use for DC point members at sold out resorts is the biggest problem Marriott will face.  If 100 DC points members request a week at GO during the June July August time frame and only 50 owners there trade in their week for Marriott points or give up their week for a trade to another resort then Marriott only has 50 weeks to give the 100 people who want them.   No way around that fact no matter how you slice it up.


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## wof45 (Jan 29, 2011)

KathyPet said:


> I still think finding inventory to use for DC point members at sold out resorts is the biggest problem Marriott will face.  If 100 DC points members request a week at GO during the June July August time frame and only 50 owners there trade in their week for Marriott points or give up their week for a trade to another resort then Marriott only has 50 weeks to give the 100 people who want them.   No way around that fact no matter how you slice it up.



And we are finding no inventory for DC at Frenchman's Cove 12-13 months out.  I thought Marriott still owned a lot of inventory at MFC.


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