# Before traveling to Canada, beware!



## dag2 (Dec 19, 2006)

Thinking about traveling to our “friendly” neighbors to the north, Canada?

You better reconsider if you have been convicted of DWI or DUI in the United States within the last ten years.  A person convicted of either offense is considered inadmissible to Canada.

In October ’06 my wife and I were traveling to Vancouver, BC.  While clearing Canadian customs at Vancouver International Airport we were selected for additional screening by immigrations.  We figured no big deal, just a random check.  We were asked numerous questions, one of which was, “Have you ever been convicted of a crime?”  I replied I had been convicted of a DUI in the year 2001. No accident was involved.  I have no other criminal violations. It was in fact the only moving traffic violation I have received in my 38 years of driving.  To my astonishment, I was told I could not enter Canada!  I was flabbergasted!  I questioned the immigration officer as to what if any my alternatives were.  There were only two alternatives: Return to the U.S. or he would do me a “favor” and issue me a “Temporary Resident Permit” for the fee of $180 USD.  I was angry enough to simply return to the U.S., but that would cost us a last minute one-way airfare for two, the forfeit of our hotel deposit and return portion of our airfare, not to mention ruining our planned one-week vacation at Whistler.  I swallowed my pride and embarrassment, and reluctantly handed over the $180.  By the way, this permit was only valid for this one visit.

Upon returning to the good old USA I did a little research.  The immigration officer did indeed do me a favor.  “Leisure travel and tourism are not considered a compelling reason to warrant issuance of a Temporary Resident Permit.”  Basically, Canadian law does not let you enter the country for at least five years from date of your conviction!  After this five-year waiting period (assuming you have not been convicted of another offence) you can apply for “Criminal Rehabilitation” by submitting the following:
1.	An application form IMM 1444E
2.	A passport size photograph
3.	A copy of your passport data page
4.	An FBI police certificate.  $18.00 plus the cost of obtaining fingerprints.
5.	A State police certificate from every State in which you have lived in for more than 6 months since the age of 18. (note: each state charges a fee from $0 - $50.00.
6.	Copies of court documents indicating the charge, section of law violated, the verdict, and sentencing.
7.	Proof of completed sentences, paid fines, court costs, ordered treatments, etc.
8.	Copies of the text of the law describing the offence.
9.	Detailed explanation of the circumstances surrounding the offence. 
10.	Three letters of reference from responsible citizens.
11.	A non-refundable processing fee of $180 USD.

Approximate total cost for me to ask the Canadian government for “forgiveness”: $254 plus.   Excuse me, but doesn’t this seem a bit of “overkill”?  A DUI is not a minor offense but the above process appears to be more appropriate for a rapist or child molester.  In order for me to visit Canada I must comply with the above or wait the required ten-year period from the date of my conviction.   We normally visit Canada at least two or more times yearly for a total stay of approximately three weeks.  I would guess we spend several thousand dollars for Canadian services and products during these visits.  I will not comply with Canada’s ridiculous “Criminal Rehabilitation” procedure so we will reluctantly wait until sometime after Feb. 2012 to return.  To quote John Stossel, a reporter for ABC’s 20/20 television news show, “Give me a Break!” 

Further information can be found at: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/conviction.html#deemed


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## BevL (Dec 19, 2006)

As an FYI, the procedure is the same for Canadians visiting the U.S.  If you've been convicted of an impaired driving charge, it could prohibit entry into the U.S.  Apparently, as long as there is no injury and it is your only conviction, you will in all likelihood be allowed into the country as long as you have paperwork to confirm what you were charged with, etc.

I know this because my son was initially charged by the police with impaired driving (not our finest hour) this summer.  Charges were not followed through by Crown counsel due to some technical glitches so the whole thing has died, but we were researching the repercussions for our family trip to the U.S. this spring.

When my son was railing about the unfairness of his trip possibly being jeopardized, I reminded him it's one more very strong reason not to drink and drive.  My "advice" to him was if you do the crime, and it is a crime, be prepared for the consequences, which may extend long into the future.

JMHO.

Bev


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## Spence (Dec 19, 2006)

BevL said:
			
		

> As an FYI, the procedure is the same for Canadians visiting the U.S. If you've been convicted of an impaired driving charge, it could prohibit entry into the U.S. Apparently, as long as there is no injury and it is your only conviction, there is some latitude given to immigration officers as to whether they enforce it or not.
> 
> I know this because my son was initially charged by the police with impaired driving (not our finest hour) this summer. Charges were not followed through by Crown counsel due to some technical glitches so the whole thing has died, but we were researching the repercussions for our family trip to the U.S. this spring.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the perspective from the other side of the fence.


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## dag2 (Dec 20, 2006)

*Cannot locate restrictions*

I have searched several US governmnet websites and cannot locate similiar restrictions to immigrants to the US.  Perhaps you can direct me?


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## BevL (Dec 20, 2006)

Here is a link to a U.S. Consulate website - the part about Travellers with Criminal Records applies.

http://quebec.usconsulate.gov/content/textonly.asp?section=visas&document=canadian#criminal


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## dag2 (Dec 20, 2006)

*Not quite the same restrictions*

"If your criminal record consists solely of a single drunk driving offense which resulted in no bodily injury, you do not need a special permission (called a "waiver") to enter the U.S. But you should be prepared to show the border inspectors a copy of the court judgment, with an English translation of that judgment."  This quote is from the website you directed me to.  I wish it was only that simple for me to enter Canada.


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## JMSH (Dec 20, 2006)

If you ever had a family member killed by a drunk driver you might feel differently about the seriousness of the matter. I congratualte Canadian authorities for their stance.


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## Neesie (Dec 20, 2006)

*we decided not to go to Canada*

Dag,
I heard of this through a travel forum when I was in the process of arranging a Canadian ski trip.  My hubby got a DUI in Oct. 2005 and even though he went through the legal process, very remorseful & respetcful, I might add...he was treated like a first class bum.  (Mind you, he has never had any other type of charge, was over age 50, owned & operated a succesful business for 30 years and married over 25).  He paid his fine, did the classes, etc. 

We ended up having a heavenly time in Lake Tahoe instead!

BTW, the local news story here is of a certain West Point Cadet.  He was home on Christmas break and got a DUI on Friday night.  Shortly afterwards he went missing without taking his car, wallet or cell phone.  His parents reported him missing after 72 hours.  You can tell by their worried mannerisms on the news that they are scared to death that he has committed suicide.

We can tell you for sure that the jailers will do anything they can to remind you what a criminal you are.  My hubby was handcuffed behind his back for 10 hours, not fed in over 24 and not allowed to place the famous "1 phonecall."  He arrived home with a gash in his forehead that should have received stitches but couldn't because it was already dried since he didn't receive treatment in jail, other than being shoved into a wall.  And no, he is not a beligerant drunk...the police report even described him as "happy."  When his probation officer called him a criminal I reminded her that he was a decent human being who had made an error in judgement.  

Please don't respond with a lot of "drunk driving stories"....I don't even drink so I'm not interested.  That is, unless you've never made an error in your life.


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## geekette (Dec 20, 2006)

Wow, thanks for posting this - I had no idea.  

Neesie, I've made errors in my life but never put anyone else's life at risk.  It only takes one "mistake" in a lifetime of clean living to kill a carload of innocent people.  You cannot convince me it's not a serious offense and not just an error because I've lost friends and family to drunk drivers.  It's against the law and for good reason.  It's not a garden variety 'error'.  

I do believe that any person in the custody of the police should be treated with the respect that a human deserves.  I'm sorry your husband was treated as less than human.


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## Neesie (Dec 20, 2006)

*we all make mistakes*

Thank you for agreeing that my husband should have been treated better.  They have, in the past, treated cops & clergy very well when arrested under the same offense.   I'm afraid this West Point Cadet was shown similar cruelty which I know is uncalled for.  I just hope if he is suicidal he will reconsider.

Geekette: please remember that there are many, many other things that put people's lives in danger.  Talking on cell phones while driving comes to mind, same as eating, changing cd's, not putting your kids in a proper car seat, smoking while in the presence of others....I hate to harp, but am tired of people preaching at ME while they are less than perfect.  

BTW, my husband is the only person I know that was convicted and obeyed the NO DRIVING portion of his sentence.  We live a long way from work and don't have synchronized schedules.  The sentence punnished me more than it did him.  And I don't drink AT ALL.


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## BevL (Dec 20, 2006)

dag2 said:
			
		

> "If your criminal record consists solely of a single drunk driving offense which resulted in no bodily injury, you do not need a special permission (called a "waiver") to enter the U.S. But you should be prepared to show the border inspectors a copy of the court judgment, with an English translation of that judgment."  This quote is from the website you directed me to.  I wish it was only that simple for me to enter Canada.




That's why I mentioned that, if you have your paperwork and that is your only criminal charge, you will in all likelihood be admitted into the U.S.

Neesie, I sympathize with the treatment your husband received while in custody, it sounds very inappropriate.

I also thank God that my son did not kill himself, his passengers or worse yet, some innocent family driving down the road while driving drunk.  Not being able to go on vacation to a neighbouring country pales in comparison to the possible consequences of his actions.  That's not to say that I've never made a mistake - in my younger days, yes, I drove when I shouldn't have.  But it's a crime, pure and simple.

Bev


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## Neesie (Dec 20, 2006)

It is a crime, but not premeditated like child molesting and theft, etc.  Of course there are others that never consider a sober ride home and infuriate people.  Maybe we are getting some of that backlash.  Some of the other ways people endanger others people's lives (while they point the finger at drivers who drive over .08) is *unsafe sex practices AND failure to lock up their weapons.  These people probably travel just fine and get lots of sympathy for their misfortune!  Like I said before, we went to Lake Tahoe and had a wonderful time.  Park City or Jackson Hole is next!!!*


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## bogey21 (Dec 20, 2006)

Neesie said:
			
		

> We can tell you for sure that the jailers will do anything they can to remind you what a criminal you are.  My hubby was handcuffed behind his back for 10 hours, not fed in over 24 and not allowed to place the famous "1 phonecall."  He arrived home with a gash in his forehead that should have received stitches but couldn't because it was already dried since he didn't receive treatment in jail, other than being shoved into a wall.



Same thing happened to me in the late 70's in St Louis, MO except no gash on my head, only bruises.  In addition I was tossed into a pitch black cell with absolutley no window or light for 10 to 12 hours.   My reaction, though, was a little different than yours.  After I finally settled up with the court about 3 months later, I returned to the jail and thanked them for shoving me around and bruising me up.  Why, because I knew after having gone through this ordeal, I would never put myself in a position to be arrested again.  And you know what?  I haven't.  

GEORGE


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## dag2 (Dec 20, 2006)

*Please people!*



			
				dag2 said:
			
		

> Thinking about traveling to our “friendly” neighbors to the north, Canada?
> 
> You better reconsider if you have been convicted of DWI or DUI in the United States within the last ten years.  A person convicted of either offense is considered inadmissible to Canada.
> 
> ...



The reason I posted this topic was to prevent the same embarrasing and perhaps costly situation from occuring to others.  It was not intended to initiate a discussion about morals and jail experiences.


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## camachinist (Dec 21, 2006)

Given the time of year, thanks for sharing. I did not know of this.

Pat


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## frenchieinme (Dec 22, 2006)

*I guess the moral here is...*

I guess the moral here is THINK TWICE BEFORE DRINKING TOO MUCH AS THE COST MAY BE MUCH MORE THAN ONE CAN FORESEE AT THE TIME.    Therefore, DRINK RESPONSIBLY!!!  

frenchieinme


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## Fletcher921 (Dec 23, 2006)

*It happened to us also...*

Dag2,
We experienced the same thing years ago upon entering canada via a ferry from Port Antonio - they were going to deny us entry due to a DUI in my husbands long ago past.  He was considered a 'convicted felon' in Canada.  They actually held the ferry and were going to put us back on - but - for a 'fee' - they would overlook his indescretion just that one time...  It seemed like a legal bribe - not a fee.  It felt very odd.   I think we were on our 10th wedding anniversary trip.  I do wish someone had warned us so we would have been mentally (and financially) prepared.  We were STRAPPED at that point and it took a bundle of our cash.
Thank you for mentioning here so others will be prepared.


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## dag2 (Dec 23, 2006)

This is exactly why I posted this thread.  If this situation happens to someone at an airport, a last minute airline ticket to retun home could cost you a fortune.  Someone contemplating the purchase of a Canadian timeshare might also heed my warning.


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## kapish (Dec 23, 2006)

*Consolidated list of gotchas for international travel possible?*

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/member.php?u=15916dag2: I appreciate the heads up regarding traveling to Canada. I think it would be highly beneficial if an "FAQ" can be created about such restrictions/gotchas about traveling to other countries/regions too.


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## ysr_racer (Dec 23, 2006)

dag2 said:
			
		

> This is exactly why I posted this thread.  If this situation happens to someone at an airport, a last minute airline ticket to retun home could cost you a fortune.  Someone contemplating the purchase of a Canadian timeshare might also heed my warning.



Heed my warning, *DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE* you'll be fine. We lock up DUIs all the time and they all say the same thing, "Why are you doing this to me?"

Contact these people and they'll tell you why: http://www.madd.org/


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## kapish (Dec 23, 2006)

Original poster obviously intnded his post as a warning. It applies not only to drunk driving, but also other offenses ... 

for example...

I wonder, if one were arrested as a juvenile and convicted for something like defacing public property (like graffiti) would one get trouble too?


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## dboy1 (Dec 24, 2006)

One of the things that a lot of travelers loose sight of is that visiting any country is a privelage granted by that country and Not a right of the person visiting.There are many instances of people having trouble at border crossings for any number of reasons and I am sure we have all heard many horror stories. We need to remember that many of these laws are a 100 years old and are combined with new laws and then are being interpreted by ordinary people just trying to make a living while being expected to catch every " evildoer and or terrorist"that is trying to cross the border on their watch.


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