# [**2008**] Hyatt Residence Club - good or bad for Vacation Club owners?



## THX1965

I see a lot of members being excited about the new Northstar Hyatt property. But what exactly does it mean for existing HVC owners?

Is Hyatt slow moving away from their traditional timeshare properties to more exclusive and more expensive fractional ownership models? (Northstar Lodge and Siesta Key Beach.)

I can imagine, availablity for non-residence-club-owners (traditional HVC owners) will be pretty limited (except for the off-off season, maybe).

I'd love to get some insight from some of you HVC veterans. We did purchase an annual platinum 2-bedroom week in Sedona last year and are pretty happy with the whole system so far. We plan far in advance and so far, have always been able to get into where and when we wanted (avoiding the high-high season.) However, at the time of our purchase, nobody told us that Hyatt would start shifting towards a more exclusive fractional ownership model.

So, is this new direction good or bad for us tradional HVC owners? The new  upscale properties look great, but will we also be able to use them?

Looking forward to your insight. Thanks.


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## Carmel85

THX1965,

Im so HAPPY that you bought a 2200 point week at Sedona low MF's  and  great big points 2200 perfect.

In regards to Hyatt yes most of the Hyatt new resorts are going to be fractional ownerships. ASPEN, BEAVER CREEK now and Northstar,Siesta Key,Fl,NYC and Bermuda but Hawaii is a full timeshare resort (so far) but it might change to a few rooms 10-20% being fractional.

I really do not care what Hyatt builds as long as I plan ahead I can get in and use some of these great new resorts. Yes I might not get in on week 51,52 or 7 but if you plan ahead even Aspen is not out of reach. remember most of the new resorts have some fixed weeks and some float weeks and those float weeks are very easy with some planning ahead to get into use them.

People will look back in 5-7 years and say wow I got a 2200 point level of 21k-23k what a deal that was.

Any new resort Hyatt builds is a BONUS to all of us existing Hyatt owners. 

What week do you own in Sedona?


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## PA-

THX1965 said:


> I see a lot of members being excited about the new Northstar Hyatt property. But what exactly does it mean for existing HVC owners?
> 
> Is Hyatt slow moving away from their traditional timeshare properties to more exclusive and more expensive fractional ownership models? (Northstar Lodge and Siesta Key Beach.)
> 
> I can imagine, availablity for non-residence-club-owners (traditional HVC owners) will be pretty limited (except for the off-off season, maybe).
> 
> I'd love to get some insight from some of you HVC veterans. We did purchase an annual platinum 2-bedroom week in Sedona last year and are pretty happy with the whole system so far. We plan far in advance and so far, have always been able to get into where and when we wanted (avoiding the high-high season.) However, at the time of our purchase, nobody told us that Hyatt would start shifting towards a more exclusive fractional ownership model.
> 
> So, is this new direction good or bad for us tradional HVC owners? The new  upscale properties look great, but will we also be able to use them?
> 
> Looking forward to your insight. Thanks.



Since you've been an owner for a year, you should easily be able to answer your own questions by checking Aspen availability.  Right?


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## THX1965

Thanks to both of you. Since I consider myself still pretty new to the Hyatt system, here is where I got confused (and I think I still am).

I did not know that Aspen and Beaver Creek were also fractual ownership resorts (Are they really? Not traditional time shares like the other Hyatt properties?).

You are right PA, it is possible to get into Apsen and Beaver Creek as a regular HVC owner with enough platinum points from a different resort, as long as you plan well in advance. We're planning to take advantage of that next spring.

Our sales rep at the Sedona property (we own a platinum week in late October) did not mention that both Hyatt Colorado resorts were different - only that they were a lot steeper in purchase and maintenance price - which made the Sedona week a really attractive bargain.

So, do Aspen and Beaver Creek have the same fractual ownership structure as Northstar? We were told (by our sales rep) that platinum Colorado owners get the same 2200 points that we got, with the only difference being their guaranteed (ski) week, obviously, and preferential treatment at their home resort (like every HVC owner).

But as I understand, Northstar Lodge IS different. Owners there get more weeks at their resort and also more points for other HVC resorts. Is that correct?

It's still a bit confusing to me. Maybe someone can shed some more light on this. But as you said, Carmel85, I don't really care how much they pay for their ski week at Northstar, as long as I can use it too. It just looks like it's getting more and more exclusive at the expense of existing HVC owners. I hope I am wrong.


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## Carmel85

THX1965 said:


> Thanks to both of you. Since I consider myself still pretty new to the Hyatt system, here is where I got confused (and I think I still am).
> 
> I did not know that Aspen and Beaver Creek were also fractual ownership resorts (Are they really? Not traditional time shares like the other Hyatt properties?).
> 
> You are right PA, it is possible to get into Apsen and Beaver Creek as a regular HVC owner with enough platinum points from a different resort, as long as you plan well in advance. We're planning to take advantage of that next spring.
> 
> Our sales rep at the Sedona property (we own a platinum week in late October) did not mention that both Hyatt Colorado resorts were different - only that they were a lot steeper in purchase and maintenance price - which made the Sedona week a really attractive bargain.
> 
> So, do Aspen and Beaver Creek have the same fractual ownership structure as Northstar? We were told (by our sales rep) that platinum Colorado owners get the same 2200 points that we got, with the only difference being their guaranteed (ski) week, obviously, and preferential treatment at their home resort (like every HVC owner).
> 
> But as I understand, Northstar Lodge IS different. Owners there get more weeks at their resort and also more points for other HVC resorts. Is that correct?
> 
> It's still a bit confusing to me. Maybe someone can shed some more light on this. But as you said, Carmel85, I don't really care how much they pay for their ski week at Northstar, as long as I can use it too. It just looks like it's getting more and more exclusive at the expense of existing HVC owners. I hope I am wrong.



THX1965,

Again fractional hyatts get fixed weeks just like your Sedona and also they get float points  to use at thier resort or any hyatt resort also.

Northstar is going to be a great resort and it is going to opens in November 2008.

Again be HAPPY if you get into these fractional hyatts every few years because Im sure the new owners will be coming back and back to their home resort for at lease 3-5 years after they buy into the hyatt system. I know if I payed 100k i would be going every season and use all my points at my Home resort.

Personally I would call Northstar Hyatt they will send you all kinds of info on the new resort. 

I would also make sure you look at KAL's site his site is even better that hyatt.  


With you 2000 Sedona point week you should be set for a few more years until you love Hyatt then you will be back to buy another week.


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## tahoeJoe

THX1965 said:


> I see a lot of members being excited about the new Northstar Hyatt property. But what exactly does it mean for existing HVC owners?
> 
> Is Hyatt slow moving away from their traditional timeshare properties to more exclusive and more expensive fractional ownership models? (Northstar Lodge and Siesta Key Beach.)
> 
> I can imagine, availablity for non-residence-club-owners (traditional HVC owners) will be pretty limited (except for the off-off season, maybe).
> 
> I'd love to get some insight from some of you HVC veterans. We did purchase an annual platinum 2-bedroom week in Sedona last year and are pretty happy with the whole system so far. We plan far in advance and so far, have always been able to get into where and when we wanted (avoiding the high-high season.) However, at the time of our purchase, nobody told us that Hyatt would start shifting towards a more exclusive fractional ownership model.
> 
> So, is this new direction good or bad for us tradional HVC owners? The new  upscale properties look great, but will we also be able to use them?
> 
> Looking forward to your insight. Thanks.



I can’t speak to Siesta Key; buy as for Northstar Lodge I COMPLETELY DISAGEE. I know I differ from Carmel85 but hear me out. 

I think fractionals are a GOOD thing and there will be a lot of availability in the “off season” and “shoulder season” and some availability mid-week during the peak season. Here is why. Unlike Marriott Grand Residence Club and other fractional properties, Hyatt is not selling all the weeks and an owner can only be assured of one fixed week per year. They are only selling 20 weeks a year and a bunch of points. So a 2 bedroom owner will get a fixed week either in the summer or winter and then 2450 points TO BE USED ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME. That is the key. I don’t think Northstar owners will use their points at Northstar in the off or shoulder season. Why would they?  They don’t have to since they own the peak weeks anyway. They will use there points in San Francisco or Carmel or elsewhere.  Leaving plenty of space for the rest of us. 

Now before you guys say the off season is bad, let me say I own a condo (365 day a year) in South Lake Tahoe. I go to Tahoe a lot and always go in December for my wife’s Birthday.  I know from years of experience that weeks  47 – 49 (typically bronze) are better than a Christmas week (Diamond) because the snow is the same, weather same, and it is less crowded, fewer people in line for the ski lifts. Also, prices are cheaper. 

Also, I anticipate many (not all) of the people who buy at Northstar will be from Northern California. Being from Northern California, I understand the mindset of the people here when it come to Tahoe. We consider it a weekend getaway, 90 minutes from Sacramento, 2-3 hours from the Bay Area. Most people don’t go to Tahoe for 7 days. Usually 2-3 days over a weekend. I anticipate for this reason that there will be some mid-week availability in peak season.  

The reason I see Hyatt going to fractional is a pure business decision. It is very hard to sell "mud" weeks at ski resorts, and Northstar is essentially a ski resort. Hyatt is packaging a good/great ski (or summer) weeks with “poor” mud weeks. To get the “good” you must buy the “bad” and at top dollar. Do the math, the cheapest 2 bedroom platinum week is approx $131,000. This HUGE Price Tags buys you a week in Platinum season and 2450 anytime points. Compare this to High Sierra 5 miles away. Platinum 2 bedroom week at High Sierra down the road will run you maybe $25,000?  Combine that with 2 bronze weeks at maybe $9,000/each. So for approximately $43k ($25k+$9k+$9k), - - I think you can do it cheaper - - you get the same platinum week and more points (2600pts vs. 2450pts). Yes you will pay 3 maintenance fees BUT the MF at Northstar will be high, maybe higher.   

-TJ


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## tahoeJoe

Carmel85 said:


> THX1965,
> 
> 
> 
> Again be HAPPY if you get into these fractional hyatts every few years because Im sure the new owners will be coming back and back to their home resort for at lease 3-5 years after they buy into the hyatt system. I know if I payed 100k i would be going every season and use all my points at my Home resort.
> .



Maybe during the peak season weeks (or part of the weeks) but I don't think Northstar owners will spend their 2450 ANYTIME, ANYWHERE HVC points to vacation at Northstar during the mud season when they can go to Maui, or Carmel or San Francisco. There will be availability at Northstar for non-owners. 

Also, keep in mind that 2000 points from Northstar Lodge trades exactly the same as 2000 point from Pinion in Sedona. 

-TJ


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## THX1965

tahoeJoe said:


> Hyatt is not selling all the weeks and an owner can only be assured of one fixed week per year. They are only selling 20 weeks a year and a bunch of points......I don’t think Northstar owners will use their points at Northstar in the off or shoulder season. Why would they?  They don’t have to since they own the peak weeks anyway..... Leaving plenty of space for the rest of us.
> 
> Now before you guys say the off season is bad.......
> 
> Being from Northern California, we consider it a weekend getaway......
> 
> The reason I see Hyatt going to fractional is a pure business decision. It is very hard to sell "mud" weeks at ski resorts, and Northstar is essentially a ski resort.......




TahoeJoe, 

thanks for your comment. I think you're spot on. I totally agree with you - there will be plenty of availablity in the off or shoulder season and even mid-week peak. That is the case already with Aspen and Beaver Creek. Why should it be any different with Tahoe?

I personally like spring skiing and I really hate waiting in line to get up the mountain. So, spring is perfect. We just returned from a great week in Tahoe (Sierra Lodge). Warm weather, still wonderful spring snow (not slushy at all) and nobody around. We had the mountains to ourselves. It was amazing. I am from Europe (Austria) and this kind of spring snow weather only lasts for maybe a day over there before the snow gets really slushy and ugly. I was really blown away, how beautiful it was in Tahoe at this time of the year.

We got attracted to Hyatt because of their very flexible and generous points system and the upscale direction they're taking with all of their new resorts. Westin is doing the same thing (on the design side), but their points system is terrible, IMHO. So, now that I know that everybody will benefit from these new luxury fractional ownership resorts, I am really glad I bought into the Hyatt system, especially with my extremely low maintenance costs in Sedona.


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## mesamirage

THX1965 said:


> I totally agree with you - there will be plenty of availablity in the off or shoulder season and even mid-week peak. .


 
I also 100% agree with this.... remember Hyatt only cares if they sell these weeks and collect the yearly fees... they don't care if the actual owners who shelled out $100's of thousands's stay in them or not. Typically the folks who purchase weeks don't worry about getting the value from them but rather like knowing they have the elite access when they do decide to use it. When we were up at Beaver Creek last year the sales rep (and we know they are soooo truthful) chatted with me about the typical high end owner and how they don't use the time they get. Example of that is all the multimillion dollar homes in Beaver Creek that are empty YEAR-ROUND.



THX1965 said:


> Westin is doing the same thing (on the design side), but their points system is terrible, IMHO. .


 
Yup.. yup... sold my Westin Kierland week last year... system just doesn't work... the call in at 6am 365 days before the desired vacation just DOES NOT work for me... I did it... because I had to to get the dates I wanted. They have no online reservation system...etc etc.. Now the resorts are very nice and we like them, so we purchased a little $1800 2 bedroom unit (2 of them) at Sheraton Desert Oasis (which is still Westin/Starwood) and we have traded that for Maui, Palm Springs, Kierland, etc... my $400 MF is the little unit that can. We are off to Maui late may for 2 weeks in a 2 bedroom at the Westin...



THX1965 said:


> I am really glad I bought into the Hyatt system, especially with my extremely low maintenance costs in Sedona.


 
Yep on this also... Not only is Sedona cheap in terms of Hyatt MFs... the entire Hyatt system is reasonible (less fractionals) to the rest of the higher end Timeshares.. MFs are still going up, but its a chronic problem to the entire industry.

Go Hyatt!! It only gets better from here!! Yeehaw!


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## sullco

*HVC in Interval International*

I also think that the 1300 HVC point level required for II makes Hyatt a good way to get into high end II properties as a way to augment the Hyatt internal system.

So, Hyatt remains a great way to get into timeshare/fractional ownership.


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## GTLINZ

tahoeJoe said:


> I can’t speak to Siesta Key; buy as for Northstar Lodge I COMPLETELY DISAGEE. I know I differ from Carmel85 but hear me out.
> 
> I think fractionals are a GOOD thing and there will be a lot of availability in the “off season” and “shoulder season” and some availability mid-week during the peak season.
> 
> -TJ



I have been looking at buying into Hyatt, and I think that the existing owners are getting a raw deal because this is a BAD thing. I would like to hear from Kal on this, but here is what I am thinking.

Yes, you will likely have easy access (especially offseason) into these newer fractional units at great locations. But you will also have owners in these fractional units with enough points (besides their owned week) to compete with everyone else for peak units at existing (and fractional) locations WITHOUT giving up their week. The more fractional units are sold, the harder it will get to trade into the existing non-fractional units. Looks to me like Hyatt is pushing you towards playing it safe and using the unit/week you own because the big money boys are getting to play both sides of the fence.

I am looking at this from the outside, but this does not look good to me


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## Carmel85

GTLINZ said:


> I have been looking at buying into Hyatt, and I think that the existing owners are getting a raw deal because this is a BAD thing. I would like to hear from Kal on this, but here is what I am thinking.
> 
> Yes, you will likely have easy access (especially offseason) into these newer fractional units at great locations. But you will also have owners in these fractional units with enough points (besides their owned week) to compete with everyone else for peak units at existing (and fractional) locations WITHOUT giving up their week. The more fractional units are sold, the harder it will get to trade into the existing non-fractional units. Looks to me like Hyatt is pushing you towards playing it safe and using the unit/week you own because the big money boys are getting to play both sides of the fence.
> 
> I am looking at this from the outside, but this does not look good to me




I personally think you should keep looking from the outside!!!

LOOKS like you do not know about Hyatt!!!

Hyatt is EXCELLENT!!!! 


PLEASE DO NOT BUY HYATT DO NOT BUY HYATT!!!! (more rooms for all of us owners that know Hyatt)

Kal's on vacation


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## PA-

GTLINZ said:


> I have been looking at buying into Hyatt, and I think that the existing owners are getting a raw deal because this is a BAD thing. I would like to hear from Kal on this, but here is what I am thinking.
> 
> Yes, you will likely have easy access (especially offseason) into these newer fractional units at great locations. But you will also have owners in these fractional units with enough points (besides their owned week) to compete with everyone else for peak units at existing (and fractional) locations WITHOUT giving up their week. The more fractional units are sold, the harder it will get to trade into the existing non-fractional units. Looks to me like Hyatt is pushing you towards playing it safe and using the unit/week you own because the big money boys are getting to play both sides of the fence.
> 
> I am looking at this from the outside, but this does not look good to me



Look at it this way, Glintz.

At San Antonio or Sedona or Coconut (all non-fractionals), all 52 weeks will be sold in each and every unit.  So 100% of the resort will be sold.

The same is true in the fractional resorts, although they are sold to fewer owners.  So I don't see that it should have much impact either way on existing owners how they sell new resorts.  

If Aspen were not a fractional resort, the "big money guys" that buy week 51 and 52 would still use their units most of the time.  After all, that's why they pay the big bucks.  If they needed additional points, they'd just buy another week.  Lots of owners have more than 1 week.

As long as Hyatt sells points equating to 100% of the units/weeks, availability will always be an issue, whether they sell them to few or many different individuals.  

However, I think growth and a greater choice of resorts will always be a good thing, no matter how they sell it.


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## DeweyWhopper

Carmel85 said:


> I personally think you should keep looking from the outside!!!
> 
> LOOKS like you do not know about Hyatt!!!
> 
> Hyatt is EXCELLENT!!!!
> 
> 
> PLEASE DO NOT BUY HYATT DO NOT BUY HYATT!!!! (more rooms for all of us owners that know Hyatt)
> 
> Kal's on vacation



Carmel85,  I love your passion for the Hyatt system.  And because of some of the info you have provided I even bought another 2,000 pt Hyatt week, bringing my total of Hyatt ponts to 4,200. So I appreciate all of your postings.

However, I find the tone of many of your posts quite confrontational.  Usually, you just provide great info.  But sometimes, like above, your tone and use of exclamation points makes you look like a cyber bully.  Maybe you are often being sarcastic, and I just can't tell.

Anyway, just my two cents.

DeweyWhopper


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## Carmel85

DeweyWhopper said:


> Carmel85,  I love your passion for the Hyatt system.  And because of some of the info you have provided I even bought another 2,000 pt Hyatt week, bringing my total of Hyatt ponts to 4,200. So I appreciate all of your postings.
> 
> However, I find the tone of many of your posts quite confrontational.  Usually, you just provide great info.  But sometimes, like above, your tone and use of exclamation points makes you look like a cyber bully.  Maybe you are often being sarcastic, and I just can't tell.
> 
> 
> DeweyWhopper



DeweyWhopper,

Im not trying to be confrontational but I really get tired of NON Hyatt owners trying to down HYATT and not knowing the Hyatt system. Some people don't even want to take the time to learn about Hyatt or the Hyatt system.

NO Cyber bully here, I just want people to think before they speak about Hyatt especially NON Hyatt owners that do NOT have a clue.

Im sure you are glad you bought a total of 4200 points that is a perfect amount going forward.

Again sorry if I come across HARSH and that is why you are starting to see some of the top Hyatt Tug people not speaking so much on this board because we get tired of the BS which is said here about Hyatt on this board.

ENJOY HYATT!!!


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## PA-

Glintz has a right to his opinion, whether or not he's an owner.  Even if he's not fully knowledgeable about the Hyatt system.  Sounds to me like he's done his research and formed a valid opinion.  If I disagree with him, I'll debate the issue.  When we ban or drive away non-owners or those with alternate opinions from expressing their feelings, I'll find another board to discuss timeshares.  

The Hyatt Vacation Club is a good system for some, and a bad system for others.  Without the ability to interact and ask questions, you'll never learn which it is for you.  Carmel's opinion is that it's great for everyone.  Anyone that questions that is humiliated and bashed.  Heck, even those that buy in at less than 2000 points is made to feel like they're an idiot.  I wish he would tone it down a lot.  There's others on this board that don't agree and wish he would stop dominating the conversation.


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## Carmel85

PA- said:


> Glintz has a right to his opinion, whether or not he's an owner.  Even if he's not fully knowledgeable about the Hyatt system.  Sounds to me like he's done his research and formed a valid opinion.  If I disagree with him, I'll debate the issue.  When we ban or drive away non-owners or those with alternate opinions from expressing their feelings, I'll find another board to discuss timeshares.
> 
> The Hyatt Vacation Club is a good system for some, and a bad system for others.  Without the ability to interact and ask questions, you'll never learn which it is for you.  Carmel's opinion is that it's great for everyone.  Anyone that questions that is humiliated and bashed.  Heck, even those that buy in at less than 2000 points is made to feel like they're an idiot.  I wish he would tone it down a lot.  There's others on this board that don't agree and wish he would stop dominating the conversation.



PA,

Dont worry I will not be speaking for a while, personally I might now even talk at all since it looks like your and other don't need my info.

I will be only give out my good Hyatt info to only a select few Hyatt Tuggers  in PM only.

I find it really funny some of you want want want ALL the Hyatt info you can get then you turn around and I get stabbed in the back!!!

Dont worry Kal and only a select few other Hyatt owners will get the good Hyatt info before this board does.

Some of the Hyatt owners know I get the BEST info on Hyatt more that most people (Im sure Kal can back me up on this point) so maybe you can think what you want about me but I know my Hyatt stuff.

Weather if you have a valid opinion or not, I look at people that don't know Hyatt and do not want to learn real ___   _____!!!!  

Enjoy PA you have this board to yourself but I do hope you do not KILL Hyatt with NON FACTS and LIES about HYATT and the HYATT system.

YES I only say buy 2200 or 2000 point weeks and yes if you buy less that that you might just be a idiot (costs over the years vs the usage)!!! MY OPINION NOT yours PA!!


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## DeweyWhopper

Carmel85 said:


> DeweyWhopper,
> 
> Im not trying to be confrontational but I really get tired of NON Hyatt owners trying to down HYATT and not knowing the Hyatt system. Some people don't even want to take the time to learn about Hyatt or the Hyatt system.
> 
> NO Cyber bully here, I just want people to think before they speak about Hyatt especially NON Hyatt owners that do NOT have a clue.
> 
> Im sure you are glad you bought a total of 4200 points that is a perfect amount going forward.
> 
> Again sorry if I come across HARSH and that is why you are starting to see some of the top Hyatt Tug people not speaking so much on this board because we get tired of the BS which is said here about Hyatt on this board.
> 
> ENJOY HYATT!!!



Carmel85, 

Thanks for taking my comments in stride.  I do think you are a huge asset to us Hyatt guys and a great source of information. Whenever I see that you are the OP, I make sure to read your thread.  I hope you will continue to share your info and enthusiasm for Hyatt, as I have learned a lot from your posts.

Thanks,
Dewey


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## Cathyb

Carmel:  Did I understand you correctly.  Sedona 2200 point package costs $21,000-$23,000?  We're heading to Sedona in October and was going to check that resort out.  TIA


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## Cathyb

Carmel -- what is Kal's website--can you post it please?


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## taffy19

Cathy,

Kal has a great web site where he explains the system well and also keeps people informed of what is new at the Hyatt. He is on vacation right now as I received a PM from Carmel85 the other day. 

I would love to stay updated about the Hyatt system. I like it as you can own a fixed week/unit but can also exchange for points to anywhere so long you have enough of them.  

I have a feeling that the newest timeshare resorts are going to be very expensive because of the super locations.


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## Carmel85

Cathyb said:


> Carmel:  Did I understand you correctly.  Sedona 2200 point package costs $21,000-$23,000?  We're heading to Sedona in October and was going to check that resort out.  TIA




Cathyb,

Sedona Hyatt is great if you can get a 2200 point resale for 21k-23k because Sedona has low MF's  and not much weather problems.

Also try buying Tahoe because this resort is sold out and also has low MF's. Tahoe seems to get higher resale value because of supply and demand and really only one resale agent really has the market tied up. He is one of the only Hyatt re-sales Hyatt works with so you can always get through ROFR (great deal). Another big factor is Tahoe only has so much land and NOT to much new if any new resorts with FULL beach access.

Carmel is a great resort on never going to build it or anything like it here in Carmel,California but the MF's are too HIGH.

Have a great trip to Sedona you will love itand i hope you get a 2200 point week real soon.


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## Carmel85

iconnections said:


> Cathy,
> 
> Kal has a great web site where he explains the system well and also keeps people informed of what is new at the Hyatt. He is on vacation right now as I received a PM from Carmel85 the other day.
> 
> I would love to stay updated about the Hyatt system. I like it as you can own a fixed week/unit but can also exchange for points to anywhere so long you have enough of them.
> 
> I have a feeling that the newest timeshare resorts are going to be very expensive because of the super locations.




I agree with you 100% the new Hyatt resorts for a 2200 point week are going to be close or over 100k in Maui, to judge this price just look next door at the Marriott maui and their 2 new towers 100K+-

That is why I have been saying if you can get a 2200 point week for 21-23k you will be ahead of the game.

Thank you again for all those great Maui pictures!!


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## benjaminb13

GTLINZ said:


> I have been looking at buying into Hyatt, and I think that the existing owners are getting a raw deal because this is a BAD thing. I would like to hear from Kal on this, but here is what I am thinking.
> 
> Yes, you will likely have easy access (especially offseason) into these newer fractional units at great locations. But you will also have owners in these fractional units with enough points (besides their owned week) to compete with everyone else for peak units at existing (and fractional) locations WITHOUT giving up their week. The more fractional units are sold, the harder it will get to trade into the existing non-fractional units. Looks to me like Hyatt is pushing you towards playing it safe and using the unit/week you own because the big money boys are getting to play both sides of the fence.
> 
> I am looking at this from the outside, but this does not look good to me



HI Glintz
Heres another point of view- even without fractionals Hyatt still has great resorts and a killer system. 
the fractionals - are a plus-  so every once in a while a member can experience extra points to stay in a 100000 resort- even if it is the off season 
I noticed you own at HGVC- I do to- If you havent yet, check a HVC out ,youll really notice an upgrade in quality.


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## GTLINZ

benjaminb13 said:


> HI Glintz
> Heres another point of view- even without fractionals Hyatt still has great resorts and a killer system.
> the fractionals - are a plus-  so every once in a while a member can experience extra points to stay in a 100000 resort- even if it is the off season
> I noticed you own at HGVC- I do to- If you havent yet, check a HVC out ,youll really notice an upgrade in quality.



Thanks Benjaminb13.

I am considering buying Hyatt and trying to figure out how the system works. I have done a lot of research and am alway suspicious of change since timeshare companies are in it for the buck. Not sure why I have to get attacked, but from reading previous posts I am not surprised that I was. It does not bother me - I just want to learn and the type of discussion here is supposed to be the point of these forums. I own HGVC, I understand it and try to post on that board to help people that are asking questions. Tug is a great resource and was instrumental in helping me before I ever bought a timeshare. Kal seems to be the champion for HVC and I hope to hear his opinion on this. Carmel said he is on vacation.

The reason I am suspicious of the fractionals is based on my reading that the owners will receive their peak week PLUS a lot of points (2350?). If this assumption is wrong, please correct me. I also read that they will not sell all of the weeks at fractional locations so there will be excess inventory to balance out the "extra points" now in the system. So doesn't this mean that fractional owners (and more is coming) will be able to use their peak week, and then also use their points to compete for other peak weeks at other locations? It seems to me the non fractional owners are competing for excess weeks at non-fractional locations during peak season and the inventory that balances this out is units at fractional locations with non-peak locations. I really don't mind travelling offpeak, but it sure seems this will make getting weeks harder as more and more fractional units are sold.


----------



## Cathyb

Thanks Emmy.  Kal did a fantastic job.  How are things going with you two?


----------



## PA-

GTLINZ said:


> Thanks Benjaminb13.
> 
> I am considering buying Hyatt and trying to figure out how the system works. I have done a lot of research and am alway suspicious of change since timeshare companies are in it for the buck. Not sure why I have to get attacked, but from reading previous posts I am not surprised that I was. It does not bother me - I just want to learn and the type of discussion here is supposed to be the point of these forums. I own HGVC, I understand it and try to post on that board to help people that are asking questions. Tug is a great resource and was instrumental in helping me before I ever bought a timeshare. Kal seems to be the champion for HVC and I hope to hear his opinion on this. Carmel said he is on vacation.
> 
> The reason I am suspicious of the fractionals is based on my reading that the owners will receive their peak week PLUS a lot of points (2350?). If this assumption is wrong, please correct me. I also read that they will not sell all of the weeks at fractional locations so there will be excess inventory to balance out the "extra points" now in the system. So doesn't this mean that fractional owners (and more is coming) will be able to use their peak week, and then also use their points to compete for other peak weeks at other locations? It seems to me the non fractional owners are competing for excess weeks at non-fractional locations during peak season and the inventory that balances this out is units at fractional locations with non-peak locations. I really don't mind travelling offpeak, but it sure seems this will make getting weeks harder as more and more fractional units are sold.



You are correct.  Fractional owners get a week, plus some number of points.  However, I still don't see how that is any different than selling all 52 weeks.  Even in that case, the same number of points are sold, and the same points are chasing the weeks at both the fractionals and the non-fractionals.


----------



## mesamirage

GTLINZ said:


> The reason I am suspicious of the fractionals is based on my reading that the owners will receive their peak week PLUS a lot of points (2350?). If this assumption is wrong, please correct me. I also read that they will not sell all of the weeks at fractional locations so there will be excess inventory to balance out the "extra points" now in the system. So doesn't this mean that fractional owners (and more is coming) will be able to use their peak week, and then also use their points to compete for other peak weeks at other locations? It seems to me the non fractional owners are competing for excess weeks at non-fractional locations during peak season and the inventory that balances this out is units at fractional locations with non-peak locations. I really don't mind travelling offpeak, but it sure seems this will make getting weeks harder as more and more fractional units are sold.


 
First, my apologies if you felt you have been attacked on this board... thats not the purpose of TUG and never will be... TUG is supposed to be a place to share info and ask questions... so Welcome to the Hyatt section... I hope we can share info and opinions that will help your overall vacation and timeshare ownership be a better experience. 

On to Fractionals.... I personally believe they are a positive for HVC. As someone who has already stayed at Aspen and the Residences at Beaver Creek, let me share that they are simply AMAZING properties. The overall quality of Hyatt was already top notch... these locations take quality to a different level. Having access to these locations on the vacation/timeshare budget we have is more than we ever expected. I really don't think some of these locations would ever get built by Hyatt if they were traditional timeshares.

Demand - If you purchase Hyatt using the one Golden rule of timeshares, which is to purchase where you want to go, you will at least be guaranteed your week/unit. That is something I find VERY valuable in the Hyatt system. Example, just knowing I am guaranteed to get my ski week at Tahoe (week #8) without having to play any games with reservations, or calling in 1 year or 8 months before the desired reservation..etc etc etc... makes owning Hyatt more desirable. The Hybrid system that Hyatt offers with the deeded week and points system is something that seperates Hyatt from the other top tier Hotel based timeshare systems. So that is the first thing with demand.. own where you think you would want to go and "worst" case you will get that vacation.

Demand part II - I think its important to remember that for every high end fractional owner that now has extra points to burn in the HVC system that Hyatt has to create that amount of points to be avail in the system. Example: Fractional owner gets deeded Xmas week and 4400 extra points... well those 4400 points extra points would mean there are (2) 2200 point weeks in that fractional timeshare that, if the owner decides to go out into the HVC resorts instead, are now avail to us the HVC traditional owners to trade INTO at the fractional location. I don't see the fractionals as adding demand to the system, since there must be space created for every point that is sold to the fractional owner. Make sense?? Does it put more demand on the 2200 point weeks across the HVC system... yes I think it does, for sure. But I think it has always been unrealistic to purchase a smaller point week and hope to trade and get say a 1 bedroom during the peak season. It does happen but it has always been a bit of a stretch. But remember if your that 2200 point Xmas week owner at say Tahoe... thats guaranteed yours unless you give up your HRPP (deeded) week.

I just read your last paragraph again... Hyatt isn't going to value a off season week at a Fractional resort at peak points (2200) just so that the Fractional owner can now have 2200 points to go out into the HVC family of resorts. Hyatt has not done that... the reason the Fractional owner is getting so many points extra points along with the deeded peak week they purchase is because they are getting an additional 10 or 14 days worth of points. So 2 weeks even at 1300 point weeks gives the fractional owner 2600 points to go play in the HVC resorts. You can do the same thing by purchasing 2 low point weeks at say Beach House. I don't see Hyatt giving the fractional owner any advantages with the points they get... they are just purchasing more weeks.

I hope that helps a bit... its just my opinion. I do see the Fractionals as a HUGE advantage to the value purchasers like myself. I'm excited that my 4580 resale points I have will get us some fantastic vacations at some elite new resorts... along with the continued access to HVC resorts that we have already been enjoying.

Happy Hunting!


----------



## GTLINZ

mesamirage said:


> ... so Welcome to the Hyatt section... I hope we can share info and opinions that will help your overall vacation and timeshare ownership be a better experience.



Thanks MesaMirage!  Tuggers kept me from making a mistake of my first purchase. I never meant to be interpreted as degrading the Hyatt system. In fact, if I did not think it was a good system, I would not be asking questions and doing research. 



mesamirage said:


> ...  Demand - If you purchase Hyatt using the one Golden rule of timeshares, which is to purchase where you want to go, you will at least be guaranteed your week/unit................Demand part II - I think its important to remember that for every high end fractional owner that now has extra points to burn in the HVC system that Hyatt has to create that amount of points to be avail in the system.



I completely agree. It does seem that the points that are created to be avail in the system are off peak weeks at the fractional units, unless Hyatt buys back weeks at non-fractional locations and retains that inventory. The new units sound like they will be amazing - you just need to understand what is available. If trading does get harder into non-fractional units, it is more important to like where you own and use your HRPP. And if you are content with using points to go offpeak to the fractional units, the effect on using points is not really as big of an issue. It just all has to be considered.

I actually broke your rule number 1 with HGVC. I never stay where I bought, but the system is incredibly flexible. However, the locations are very limited and RCI does not have inventory as nice as II. Hence, I am looking at Hyatt...


----------



## bdh

GTLINZ said:


> I also read that they will not sell all of the weeks at fractional locations so there will be excess inventory to balance out the "extra points" now in the system. So doesn't this mean that fractional owners (and more are coming) will be able to use their peak week, and then also use their points to compete for other peak weeks at other locations? It seems to me the non fractional owners are competing for excess weeks at non-fractional locations during peak season and the inventory that balances this out is units at fractional locations with non-peak locations.




Regarding availabilty at the fractionals - due to the basic principles of the Hyatt system, if you have the points and plan ahead, I believe there will be access to fractional units for the conventional timeshare owner. 

By the basic nature of high point value weeks being more desirable travel times, they will not be sitting empty 2 - 3 months out. But if you use Northstar as an example, since they only actually sell 20 weeks of the year, that leaves 32 weeks open for non-Northstar Hyatt owner exchanges. Granted some of those 32 weeks will be considered Mud season. However, they are not selling weeks 2, 5, 9, 11, and 12 (these are 2000 point weeks - week 9 is actually a 2200) and they are not selling weeks 14, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 34 (these are 1880 point weeks). So there will be access to some prime weeks if you have the points.  While I've heard that Northstar owners would have some sort of edge over non-Northstar owners when it comes to reserving the unsold weeks, I haven't seen where this has been confirmed as fact.  If someone knows the specifics on this, please post it.  

Even though ski season is more than 6 months away (which means those deeded weeks are still in HRPP), I checked the HVC site for availablity at the ski fractionals (Aspen, Mountain Lodge, Residences at BC and Main Street) - there are 2 bd and 3 bd weeks at ML and MS for the 1st and 2nd week of Dec available.  While these are not 2200 point weeks, it is still ski season and as someone noted on another thread, they prefer to go at these times as there are no long lines at the lifts or restaurants.

As long as each fractional property has a point value associated with each week and trades within the HVC system, I'm not seeing a downside for the conventional timeshare owner.


----------



## GTLINZ

bdh said:


> By the basic nature of high point value weeks being more desirable travel times, they will not be sitting empty 2 - 3 months out. But if you use Northstar as an example, since they only actually sell 20 weeks of the year, that leaves 32 weeks open for non-Northstar Hyatt owner exchanges. Granted some of those 32 weeks will be considered Mud season. However, they are not selling weeks 2, 5, 9, 11, and 12 (these are 2000 point weeks - week 9 is actually a 2200) and they are not selling weeks 14, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 34 (these are 1880 point weeks). So there will be access to some prime weeks if you have the points.



If Hyatt indeed does leave some peak weeks open, they are watching out for you guys. Yes, there will be more competition for peak non-fractional weeks due to the extra points hitting the system but everyone will also be booking more inventory at the fractionals, and some of it would be peak, and minimize the impact.

I tend to be suspicious of timeshare companies. Hilton HGVC is making it harder for me to get into certain locations (especially Hawaii) by flooding the Orlando and Vegas markets. 

I do plan and book way ahead. Everyone in the HVC system now seems to say if you do this you will tend to get what you want. Thanks for the post !


----------



## Carmel85

bdh said:


> Regarding availabilty at the fractionals - due to the basic principles of the Hyatt system, if you have the points and plan ahead, I believe there will be access to fractional units for the conventional timeshare owner.
> 
> By the basic nature of high point value weeks being more desirable travel times, they will not be sitting empty 2 - 3 months out. But if you use Northstar as an example, since they only actually sell 20 weeks of the year, that leaves 32 weeks open for non-Northstar Hyatt owner exchanges. Granted some of those 32 weeks will be considered Mud season. However, they are not selling weeks 2, 5, 9, 11, and 12 (these are 2000 point weeks - week 9 is actually a 2200) and they are not selling weeks 14, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 34 (these are 1880 point weeks). So there will be access to some prime weeks if you have the points.  While I've heard that Northstar owners would have some sort of edge over non-Northstar owners when it comes to reserving the unsold weeks, I haven't seen where this has been confirmed as fact.  If someone knows the specifics on this, please post it.
> 
> Even though ski season is more than 6 months away (which means those deeded weeks are still in HRPP), I checked the HVC site for availablity at the ski fractionals (Aspen, Mountain Lodge, Residences at BC and Main Street) - there are 2 bd and 3 bd weeks at ML and MS for the 1st and 2nd week of Dec available.  While these are not 2200 point weeks, it is still ski season and as someone noted on another thread, they prefer to go at these times as there are no long lines at the lifts or restaurants.
> 
> As long as each fractional property has a point value associated with each week and trades within the HVC system, I'm not seeing a downside for the conventional timeshare owner.



BDH,

I agree with you and Mesa 100% when it comes to fractional's and how things  are working at Hyatt now and in the future.

To confirm I have seen the language about Northstar owners have over other Hyatt owners and what I read there is nothing different that what Aspen or BC has now in the system. I believe Mesa and Kal can confirm this.

In Regards to GTLINZ  "I tend to be suspicious of timeshare companies. Hilton HGVC is making it harder for me to get into certain locations (especially Hawaii) by flooding the Orlando and Vegas markets"
 Well it is very simple if you buy Hawaii you get HAWAII with higher MF's  and initial costs, then other locations but you seem like you want to get another location and be granted Hawaii will that is not how it works in the timeshare business. I know thats not what the sales people tell you but it is the truth.

Like Mesa said buy where you want to go and be happy when you can exchange for premium resorts that are in your club (hyatt,marriott,Hilton),sence you only payed a small portion of the cost compared to those top top resorts .

 GTLINZ is you live in GA correct? Where are you planning to use your most HYATT timeshare time? 

I know your suspicious of timeshare companies but really take time and go and visit Hyatt and talk to us owners we really are here to help new and potential hyatt owners but please don't knock HYATT because you have a learning curve like we all had and still have at Hyatt. Rent a hyatt for a week then you can get a feel of the owners and the hyatt system you cant go wrong with that and then maybe you will feel better about timeshare companies.


Siesta Key update NO PERMIT YET for building the HYATT still held up.


----------



## bdh

Carmel85 said:


> To confirm I have seen the language about Northstar owners have over other Hyatt owners and what I read there is nothing different that what Aspen or BC has now in the system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carmel,
> 
> I was looking thru the Siesta Key FAQ's and read one that surprised me - a Siesta Key owner is NOT guaranteed their specific unit during the HRPP, they are only guaranteed their unit type.
> 
> That really caught me off guard as the guarantee of staying in your deeded unit in HRPP, is one of the nice features of the Hyatt conventional timeshare program.  The Siesta Key FAQ surprises me so much, that I almost think it is an error in the FAQ!
> 
> Do you know if Northstar has the same arrangement for their deeded HRPP weeks?
Click to expand...


----------



## seatrout

Has anyone heard any rumor on when we can put in a request for Northstar or Siesta Keys ??  I suspect most of us in TUGs want to be in front of the line.

Is there any chance to get a "preview package" of Norsthstar during x-mas or Newyear ??


----------



## Carmel85

bdh said:


> Carmel85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To confirm I have seen the language about Northstar owners have over other Hyatt owners and what I read there is nothing different that what Aspen or BC has now in the system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carmel,
> 
> I was looking thru the Siesta Key FAQ's and read one that surprised me - a Siesta Key owner is NOT guaranteed their specific unit during the HRPP, they are only guaranteed their unit type.
> 
> That really caught me off guard as the guarantee of staying in your deeded unit in HRPP, is one of the nice features of the Hyatt conventional timeshare program.  The Siesta Key FAQ surprises me so much, that I almost think it is an error in the FAQ!
> 
> Do you know if Northstar has the same arrangement for their deeded HRPP weeks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DBH,
> 
> FYI this is carmel85 and not carmel just to let you know.  I tell the truth as i know it while carmel  does not.
> 
> Yes Siesta Key is just like you said very strange. It is strange the way Hyatt or the developer floorplans are, th because really by law they only have 2 bedrooms legal sleep areas even though they have in some 1 den and one office with pull outs.  Siesta key with show units with some of these bonuses so 2bed+den 2 bed+ office+ den., really 2bed,3bed and 4 bedroom (point levels).  Also the true 2 bedrooms will NOT have ocean front views. If you want a true ocean front it is going to cost you like a 4 bedroom unit. When you buy Siesta Key you buy NOT a fixed unit but a unit type YIKES.
> 
> I think there are only 2 units at siesta key during prime time with 2200 points and no ocean view these units are city view. So you will need lots more points if you want great  view units
> 
> Siesta Key needs to get building soon.
> 
> 
> In regards to Northstar you get a fixed week and a fixed units plus many float points completely different that Siesta Key. Northstar is like Aspen or Beaver Creek with those fixed units and weeks.
> 
> Im happy what every Hyatt builds as long as we all can use it and exchange it.
> 
> 
> Seatrout,
> 
> No dates yet for Northstar coming on line but I know the IT department was at Northstar about 2  months ago getting things up and going. Don't worry you will be able to book into Northstar for 2008/2009 ski season. Turkey day is their soft opening. Im sure Hyatt will be holding back many many rooms for the first 6 months maybe much longer of course just for you for that "preview tour".  Im not sure seatrout if they are going to give you a cheap $$$ room over x-mas or new years but you can always try using your points 2200 for either one of those weeks. remember this is only building #1 of 3 buildings at Northstar.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally Im really looking forward to all of Hyatts new resorts. Northstar 08,Siesta Key (not started yet permit held up),NYC(late 09 early 10),Bermuda(getting approval),MAUI (just approved).
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## GTLINZ

Carmel85 said:


> In Regards to GTLINZ  "I tend to be suspicious of timeshare companies. Hilton HGVC is making it harder for me to get into certain locations (especially Hawaii) by flooding the Orlando and Vegas markets"
> Well it is very simple if you buy Hawaii you get HAWAII with higher MF's  and initial costs, then other locations but you seem like you want to get another location and be granted Hawaii will that is not how it works in the timeshare business. I know thats not what the sales people tell you but it is the truth.
> 
> Like Mesa said buy where you want to go and be happy when you can exchange for premium resorts that are in your club (hyatt,marriott,Hilton),sence you only payed a small portion of the cost compared to those top top resorts .
> 
> GTLINZ is you live in GA correct? Where are you planning to use your most HYATT timeshare time?
> 
> (



Carmel85- I understand those principles and agree with you. But you also have to take into account that part of the value of a Hyatt or Hilton unit is the SYSTEM itself that allows you to use other units within the system (and Hyatt is all high end stuff). I would argue that whatever unit you personally own is not worth as much if you take away the HVC system it is a part of. After the timeshare company originally sells these units, then anything they do down the road to make the system harder for you (the owner) to use, you are not getting a fair shake. All of the Hilton literature tells me that they can change the rules when they please. I would suspect that Hyatt is likely the same way. So please understand that I am not knocking the Hyatt system, but I am asking hard questions so I can understand the impact of any changes.

And yes, I live in GA. I am coveting a unit in Key West - Sunset Harbor, to be specific, because I love being down by Mallory Square. If trading gets harder in the future, I am more likey to gravitate towards buying at SH during the time I want and use HRPP. If trading is still not as hard, I prefer to buy somewhere with lower MFs and higher points.


----------



## mesamirage

GTLINZ said:


> .
> If trading gets harder in the future, I am more likey to gravitate towards buying at SH during the time I want and use HRPP. If trading is still not as hard, I prefer to buy somewhere with lower MFs and higher points.


 
Currently the Hyatt system is very flexible and with just alittle planning it allows you to exchange anywhere in the system.  In (3) years of owning we have been to (9) of the properties, including Aspen, BC, and Carmel twice.  We have never stayed in our deeded week/unit, and I doubt that most owners ever do.  In my opinion that is a fantastic system!

However, we do not have a crystal ball and things could change.  I doubt it will change dramatically since Hyatt would have a mob on their hands and I think they really market the system based on the Club.  Could the influx of high point week owners change the dynamics of the system... sure.. but I don't think we really know until we see these new properties come online.  So its really a decision on your part to get a better deal today by purchasing a higher point week with lower MF at a different resort (which I think is low risk as far as the system changing so much that you can't exchange like you want) or to spend a bit more upfront and lock in your ability to go where you want for your vacations.  

You could do what we did and get one locked in week where you want it, and then add on points from more affordable resorts to increase your flexiblity in the system.

Good luck and Happy Hunting!


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## GrayFal

Cathyb said:


> Carmel:  Did I understand you correctly.  Sedona 2200 point package costs $21,000-$23,000?  We're heading to Sedona in October and was going to check that resort out.  TIA


Remember cathy - do your research before you go and see what RESALE pricing is - and then pick their brains at the presentation.

I know another member who owns a 2BR and is able to deposit 3 'studios' worth of points in II - a really good deal for one MF.


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## GrayFal

Question - is there a "Hyatt to Hyatt" preference in II such as exists with Marriott (21 day) and Starwood (3 day and no size restrictions) Resorts?


----------



## benjaminb13

GTLINZ said:


> If Hyatt indeed does leave some peak weeks open, they are watching out for you guys. Yes, there will be more competition for peak non-fractional weeks due to the extra points hitting the system but everyone will also be booking more inventory at the fractionals, and some of it would be peak, and minimize the impact.
> 
> I tend to be suspicious of timeshare companies. Hilton HGVC is making it harder for me to get into certain locations (especially Hawaii) by flooding the Orlando and Vegas markets.
> 
> I do plan and book way ahead. Everyone in the HVC system now seems to say if you do this you will tend to get what you want. Thanks for the post !



Glintz
I started buying into Hyatt for most of the same reasons as you. 
Kal Carmel85- and seth Nock were a great help.
you are right about HGVC- they continue to build in vegas and Orlando and use affiliates for most everything else- 
I still believe they have the most flexible system but they have more affiliates than actual hGVC resorts-
Hyatt is Hyatt- im more satisfied with it. I  bought a smaller amount 1300 at Sunset Harbor- to complement my 2000 points- and have been very happy with it. I think your plan for SH is a good one - (MFs are high)
Ive found that a combination of HGVC and HYatt is a great mix


----------



## Carmel85

GTLINZ said:


> Carmel85- I understand those principles and agree with you. But you also have to take into account that part of the value of a Hyatt or Hilton unit is the SYSTEM itself that allows you to use other units within the system (and Hyatt is all high end stuff). I would argue that whatever unit you personally own is not worth as much if you take away the HVC system it is a part of. After the timeshare company originally sells these units, then anything they do down the road to make the system harder for you (the owner) to use, you are not getting a fair shake. All of the Hilton literature tells me that they can change the rules when they please. I would suspect that Hyatt is likely the same way. So please understand that I am not knocking the Hyatt system, but I am asking hard questions so I can understand the impact of any changes.
> 
> And yes, I live in GA. I am coveting a unit in Key West - Sunset Harbor, to be specific, because I love being down by Mallory Square. If trading gets harder in the future, I am more likey to gravitate towards buying at SH during the time I want and use HRPP. If trading is still not as hard, I prefer to buy somewhere with lower MFs and higher points.



GTLINZ,

Yes any timeshare program can change the rules when they want even Hyatt.

I actually hear they might be a class action suit against Marriott on their ROFR I know Marriott is going to loose if this happens, bu that is a whole different story and not for this area. Illegal to change the term of the contract to benefit Marriott.

I would listen to Mesa and Benji and others buy where you want to be Sunset Harbor Hyatt (cant go wrong there) then add point from another Hyatt when you want more time and trading power.

I really hope you buy 2200 or 2000 point or the exact week you want at Sunset Harbor. I really think if you want a specific week at Sunset and with 1 year + planning you can get in to the week you want.  What week are you looking for every year?

FYI Siesta key is to Start building MAY 25th Week. I will believe it when I see it.


Happy Hyatt Hunting


----------



## GTLINZ

Carmel85 said:


> I really hope you buy 2200 or 2000 point or the exact week you want at Sunset Harbor. I really think if you want a specific week at Sunset and with 1 year + planning you can get in to the week you want.  What week are you looking for every year?
> 
> FYI Siesta key is to Start building MAY 25th Week. I will believe it when I see it.
> 
> Happy Hyatt Hunting



Thanks Carmel85 - that is the rub - I want to go to SH during a Nov bronze week most years - so it is either buy a cheap bronze week and have no other points or buy elsewhere/another time and have to trade in often - but I suspect that will remain an easy trade since it is low season in Key West. My other travel time for HVC points would be Sept, so the other option is the buy early Sept (still good position for Nov trades) - a gold Sept Pinion week is looking attractive too. I have vacations already booked thru this year (Breckenridge, Orlando, Del Mar) so the best path will become clear to me soon. I enjoy reading all of the posts and learning.

I have also noted that Hyatt units have been going up in value over the last few years. This is a good trend for you guys, and not the norm. Everybody's dollar is getting tighter these days, so I think this year will be a good year to buy.


----------



## DMSTWO

*A late comment back on topic*

In the early parts of this thread there was concern for the fractional owners "extra points" causing inventory issues and hampering the ability of non-fractional owners to get into the high end properties.

Mesa Mirage was right on point.  She basically said that the inventory actually balances over the 52 weeks when you consider fractionals sold and the points value of the unsold weeks.  The unsold weeks represent the total points given to the fractional owners.  She used an example that two weeks at the 1300 mark more than made up for the point fractional owners are getting.

I think the point can best be illustrated by what Starwood is doing.  As I understand it, if someone buys a peak season unit at their new Colorado resort Westin Riverfront, they also must buy a mud week.:annoyed:   When the peak season unit price is quoted it includes two week, the peak week and a mud week.  They came to the conclusion this was the only way they would ever be able to sell the mud weeks.

Hyatt is essentially doing exactly the same...with each fractional unit sold they are notionally adding points that represent off season weeks (and MFs that ipso facto represent multiple weeks).  I would call these *fictitious weeks* because they are fictitious to the buyer, but it should be noted that they do represent actual weeks in the inventory that Hyatt will not sell.

So from my prospective the only difference between what Starwood and Hyatt are doing is that Hyatt doesn't insult their buyer by telling them they must agree to buy a less desirable week(s) in order to be afforded the privilege of buying a high demand week.

The fractional buyer essentially pays for multiple weeks (and MFs for multiple weeks) but Hyatt recognizes right up front that the fractional owner will most likely never use the less desirable weeks.  So they dispense with the bs and give them the points instead.

If it turns out that some fractional owners really want to use less desirable weeks at their home resort they can use the points they have and reserve one.

I think this is why fractional owners will most likely have some sort of priority for those "other weeks" at their home resort.  It's only fair as they already own some fictitious weeks at their resort and if they want to use them they should have first priority.

Fractional owners are conceptually no different than multi-unit owners of the TS units.  So you can avoid a lot of consternation if you just view them as multiple week owners with the same rights and privileges we all enjoy.  

I tend to think the more resorts the merrier.  I also think that overtime us lowly TS resort owners will have our opportunities to trade into some very nice resorts that we might not otherwise be able to (or choose not to) afford

dmstwo


----------



## jerseygirl

GrayFal said:


> Question - is there a "Hyatt to Hyatt" preference in II such as exists with Marriott (21 day) and Starwood (3 day and no size restrictions) Resorts?




Pat -

There is no preference period.  In fact, you cannot trade your Hyatt unit for another Hyatt unit through II.  At first, that surprised me.  But, I quickly came to realize that it actually makes sense given Hyatt's point structure (Hyatt owners already have the ability to turn one week into multiple weeks by trading for a smaller unit, traveling during a less desirable season, etc.). 

-- Idahogirl


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## Godmother

*Hyatt Aspen*

Just got back from the Hyatt Grand Aspen - 2 Bedroom trade through II.  It was off season and all the ski resorts were to be closed, however, Highlands had 2 days of skiing while we were there and the weather was fantastic.     Aren't there 2 Hyatt properties in Beaver Creek, 1 time share and 1 fractional (hotel property)?     We like to travel off season and love to stay at Hyatt - Am considering a Hyatt purchase in San Antonio - Nice and close to home.  Great trade within the system.  We talk to owners whenever we can and they all LOVE Hyatt.   We own in Lake Tahoe - not a Hyatt but when we purchase another timeshare it will be a Hyatt time share  or a St. Regis/Westin Fractional.


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## jalexander

_Tahoe seems to get higher resale value because of supply and demand and really only one resale agent really has the market tied up._

Would someone please let me know who that resale agent is?


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## Kal

Hi Folks!
I've been lolly-gagging in Key West and St. Maarten for 4 weeks and am still trying to recover from "sand-gravity".  I'll have to admit the only things on my mind were what is the beverage of choice (for the next order), what's up for dinner and what villa will host the day's end activities.

As I catch up, this thread has some great interchange on a central theme which is important to current and prospective buyers.  There are many sub-topics that deserve a thread of their own, but let me see if I can offer some general thoughts of my own:

First off, Hyatt is obviously implementing an alternate business strategy involving fractionals.  Even then that strategy has two parts where we see stand-alone fractionals and "combined structures".  The combined structure includes hotel rooms, fractionals and time-share units.  My feeling is that given the current global economic situation, Hyatt will either be the most brilliant mind on the planet or the biggest fool.  Conducting such a massive expansion at this time could be interesting.  Hyatt is privately held, so I'm betting with the house.

Second, the question of the day is "will we have a shot at getting into fractional units?"  The consensus here is that we will, but during off-season.  My guess is we may have a shot at high-season reservations  only because there will be a large inventory of unsold units.  In any case, it will take lots of points but that will free up units associated with those HRPP points for others.  In the long haul, HVC will be limited to off-season usage of the fractionals.

Third, does development of fractionals limit options for owners of classic timeshare units?  Moreso, will owners of fractional floating week points put more pressure on the classic timeshare properties?  That's a serious issue for us plebians who feel good when we purchase a $30K unit for $12K.  Given the fact that Maui is 100% timeshare (no fractionals) AND timeshares are included in the "combined properties" (i.e. Manhattan and Orlando), Hyatt is expanding on both fronts.  Now bear with me for a moment when I think thu the issue of fractional owners putting pressure on the classic timeshare properties.  I don't want to come off in the wrong light, but a property where I paid >$500K with MFs >$20K has certain ammenities that we do NOT find in the classic timeshares.  I simply do not feel such owners will feel all that comfortable in stepping down from such luxury.  Thus, I don't see there being excessive pressure on the system.

Finally, does the diversion of capital to high-end construction harm the program?  Again, Hyatt is privately held, but they almost always use financial partners to carry the burden.  Net result: there's more cash flow in the system AND more revenue directly to the HVOI for management fees.  Thus it's a stronger, more viable organization.

Just my thoughts here.

Now back to getting the sand off my toes.


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## GTLINZ

Kal said:


> Hi Folks!
> Third, does development of fractionals limit options for owners of classic timeshare units?  Moreso, will owners of fractional floating week points put more pressure on the classic timeshare properties?  That's a serious issue for us plebians who feel good when we purchase a $30K unit for $12K.  Given the fact that Maui is 100% timeshare (no fractionals) AND timeshares are included in the "combined properties" (i.e. Manhattan and Orlando), Hyatt is expanding on both fronts.  Now bear with me for a moment when I think thu the issue of fractional owners putting pressure on the classic timeshare properties.  I don't want to come off in the wrong light, but a property where I paid >$500K with MFs >$20K has certain ammenities that we do NOT find in the classic timeshares.  I simply do not feel such owners will feel all that comfortable in stepping down from such luxury.  Thus, I don't see there being excessive pressure on the system.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> I think you have a good point here Kal, and not something I had thought of. I think there will indeed be some pressure but you also will have timeshare owners releasing inventory to get into the new fractionals (offseason, I agree, long term).
> 
> We were in Key West in December for the first time, and actually could imagine going the same place every other year.... glad you had a great time !


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## lizap

Found this old thread.  I wonder if those who commented feel the same way 5 years later.  Is it relatively easy to get into the fractionals (e.g., Siesta Key, Park Hyatt, Mountain Lodge, Grand Aspen, Main Street Station) during off-peak ( copper & mountain; bronze for SK) seasons? Are Park City and Miami also fractionals?


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## tahoeJoe

lizap said:


> Found this old thread.  I wonder if those who commented feel the same way 5 years later.  Is it relatively easy to get into the fractionals (e.g., Siesta Key, Park Hyatt, Mountain Lodge, Grand Aspen, Main Street Station) during off-peak ( copper & mountain; bronze for SK) seasons? Are Park City and Miami also fractionals?



Over the past 5 years I have tried repeatedly to get into Siesta Key, Northstar, and Miami, including many, many times in the off season. I have NEVER been able to get into Northstar or Siesta Key, I was able stay at Miami only once.


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## mjm1

I understand that Hyatt sold (or is selling) part of the Northstar property to the Welk Resort Group, in which we own.  Do any Hyatt owners know why they are doing this? What are your thoughts about and experiences with the Northstar property?  I would appreciate any insights you can provide.


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## jbercu

*Time will Tell*



mjm1 said:


> I understand that Hyatt sold (or is selling) part of the Northstar property to the Welk Resort Group, in which we own.  Do any Hyatt owners know why they are doing this? What are your thoughts about and experiences with the Northstar property?  I would appreciate any insights you can provide.



I booked and stayed two night stay with club points in Mid-April 2013- Just before Northstar closed. Skiing was great and convenient.  According to people in the know, Building one has 30 units.  10 in the Club, 10 owned outright, and 10 purchased by Welk, including two lots for two additional buildings.  The 10 Club units will most likely stay in the Hyatt Club.

Time will tell if info is correct.


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## mjm1

jbercu said:


> I booked and stayed two night stay with club points in Mid-April 2013- Just before Northstar closed. Skiing was great and convenient.  According to people in the know, Building one has 30 units.  10 in the Club, 10 owned outright, and 10 purchased by Welk, including two lots for two additional buildings.  The 10 Club units will most likely stay in the Hyatt Club.
> 
> Time will tell if info is correct.



Thanks jbercu. The partial purchase of units and the adjacent land for future development is consistent with the little bit of information I learned from Welk. Welk developments are high quality, so whatever they do with the land should maintain the quality of the Hyatt units. Looking forward to having availability in the north shore.


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## lizap

Will the fractionals like Siesta Key and Miami be easier to get (via internal system) after they have been open for a few years?


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## MaryH

Not necessarily since some are whole condos.  reservations only come into HRC when siesta key owner trade their time for points.  considering the mf they pay nor many do it.

Miami i believe are some apt buildings hyatt got into relationship to rent as hotels and some are in the hrc


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## lizap

Mary, do you know approx. how many (a lot, few, etc.) owners at Siesta key and Miami could potentially trade in their weeks for points?  I have heard of Siesta Key and Northstar internal availability, but not Miami.




MaryH said:


> Not necessarily since some are whole condos.  reservations only come into HRC when siesta key owner trade their time for points.  considering the mf they pay nor many do it.
> 
> Miami i believe are some apt buildings hyatt got into relationship to rent as hotels and some are in the hrc


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## MaryH

I had seen Miami Blue a while back on HRC as well as Siesta Key but have not seen Northstar personally.   

Sorry don't know the numbers.


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## lizap

Thanks Mary.  I saw a post a while back where someone said he saw a Northstar listing..



MaryH said:


> I had seen Miami Blue a while back on HRC as well as Siesta Key but have not seen Northstar personally.
> 
> Sorry don't know the numbers.


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## tahoeJoe

*History - Good Deal or Bad Deal?*

Its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, especially with archived threads, but this comment from April 2008 caught my eye.



Carmel85 said:


> THX1965,
> 
> People will look back in 5-7 years and say wow I got a 2200 point level of 21k-23k what a deal that was.



It has been almost 6 years since this was posted. So what do people think? Is/was 2200 points for $21k-$23k a good deal? Thoughts?


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## Kal

About a month ago I met a guy who proudly announced that he just bought from Hyatt a very nice unit at Sunset Harbor (1880 points) for $34,000. 

 I suggested he look at redweeks and notice the number of Sunset Harbor units.  _[The average price is about $10-11K]._

I thought about offering him a bag of vintage muffler bearings, but he might not have enough coin.


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