# [ 2012 ] Huge change in wyndham fiscal year policy!!



## rcollinsny

Has anyone else received an email from Wyndham stating that they are forcing all of your contracts to have the same fiscal year ending date? We got one today and I called the Presidential Reserve hotline to see what was going on. They confirmed that as of November 19, 2012, all 19 of our contracts will have the same fiscal year ending date!!

That will kill our ability to roll cancel points from one fiscal year to another. As it is now we never have to worry about losing cancel points. The new scheme means we will have to use all cancel points in the year issued or they will be lost.

This was a benefit promoted by the Wyndham sales staff to encourage people to buy additional contracts so their cancel points would never expire. (we did not buy from Wyndham for this but did buy resale contracts to achieve the same goal)

Between this and the Club Access feature which killed the advantage of owning at a specific resort for ARP privileges for existing owners prior to Club Access, we are quickly losing all of the benefits previously provided by Wyndham.


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## Rent_Share

rcollinsny said:


> (we did not buy from Wyndham for this but did buy resale contracts to achieve the same goal)


 
So your cash loss is minimal


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## scootr5

No, I haven't received anything like that.

If it somehow turns out to be true, FWIW owner care offered to adjust a year's end date for me on a contract, but said they couldn't do it if I had any pooled points......


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## rcollinsny

*Game plan has changed!!*



Rent_Share said:


> So your cash loss is minimal



David,

It is not the cash lost from the purchase but the effect on our ability to effectively manage our points. Currently we are not concerned about how many cancel points we generate because we can always roll them over to the next fiscal year. Going forward if we end up with unused cancel points at the end of the year, we lose them. We rent a lot of our points so this dramatically changes the game plan!!


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## vckempson

That really stinks.  I haven't gotten anythig yet.  Mabye I'm so small as to fly under the radar screen.  Being able to perpetially roll points forward is a big benefit to lose.


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## pacodemountainside

Yes, it is ipso facto.

Actually,  they are switching everyone from FISCAL year  TO a calendar year!

Like  transferring points between owners accounts, history  on the 19th.

Could you elaborate on comment that CWA has had a  material impact on ARP reservations? I have yet to see a post documenting.

Since this  is within  VOI Trust it really does not  provide any cash for Wyndham sales.

As the Triumvirate running  Trust  will say,  it is to make things more gooder for the majority.

The more points in the Trust at 60 days, the more for EH to legally steal and rent out.

Has anyone other than lying salesperson said  "You Are In Good Hands With Wyndham"?


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## bogey21

vckempson said:


> That really stinks.  I haven't gotten anythig yet.  Mabye I'm so small as to fly under the radar screen.  Being able to perpetially roll points forward is a big benefit to lose.



Just like Marriott.  Get you to buy based on one set of benefits then change the rules when it suits them.  Why are we surprised?

George


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## csxjohn

If you have a contract with a specific time period, how do they unilaterally change it?

I understand them changing VIP benefits because that is not contractual but I really don't understand this.

After 6 months of trying to understand W points, I think I know less now than when I started.


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## scootr5

csxjohn said:


> If you have a contract with a specific time period, how do they unilaterally change it?
> 
> I understand them changing VIP benefits because that is not contractual but I really don't understand this.
> 
> After 6 months of trying to understand W points, I think I know less now than when I started.



Yes, I would think that _both_ sides would need to agree.


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## rcollinsny

pacodemountainside said:


> Yes, it is ipso facto.
> 
> Could you elaborate on comment that CWA has had a  material impact on ARP reservations? I have yet to see a post documenting.
> 
> "?



The main advantage at buying points at a specific resort was to get ARP benefits at that resort. In the past ONLY owners at that resort could book a reservation at the 13 month window. Now all CWA owners can book at the same 13 month window. So owning advantages at a specific resort has been dramatically reduced based on CWA. It used to be limited based on the number of owners that the home resort was allowed to have based on deeded proportions but not any longer. We have already not been able to book prime seasonal activities that we were always able to book before CWA came into effect and it will only get worse since there is NO limit on the number of CWA owners!!


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## rcollinsny

*Stone Walled by Wyndham*



scootr5 said:


> Yes, I would think that _both_ sides would need to agree.



Apparently not, we have 10 contracts with fiscal year dates that they are forcing to have calendar year dates. Believe me, it fell on deaf ears when I called Wyndham and complained!!


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## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> David,
> 
> It is not the cash lost from the purchase but the effect on our ability to effectively manage our points. Currently we are not concerned about how many cancel points we generate because we can always roll them over to the next fiscal year. Going forward if we end up with unused cancel points at the end of the year, we lose them. We rent a lot of our points so this dramatically changes the game plan!!



I have received no letter at this point.  However, I agree, this changes the game, my three observations:

1st:  if this means that the ability to use the book and cancel with the cancelled points rolling over into a future use year is now a thing of the past, this will place increasing weight on the use of the credit pool.  

2nd:  if the above happens and if the 1st point is true, then, the ability to use the book, cancel, rebook at under 60 days will be greatly curtailed.  Cancelled and re-booked high cost summer weeks would create a significant number of points that would then presumably need to be used by December 31.  This, in turn, would probably result in even less availabilty for bookings in the August to December time frame due to points becoming a use or loss situation.

3rd:  If the above points all occur, it will make mandatory an aggressive use of the cancelled points before regular points (the borrowed points situation).


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## pacodemountainside

rcollinsny said:


> The main advantage at buying points at a specific resort was to get ARP benefits at that resort. In the past ONLY owners at that resort could book a reservation at the 13 month window. Now all CWA owners can book at the same 13 month window. So owning advantages at a specific resort has been dramatically reduced based on CWA. It used to be limited based on the number of owners that the home resort was allowed to have based on deeded proportions but not any longer. We have already not been able to book prime seasonal activities that we were always able to book before CWA came into effect and it will only get worse since there is NO limit on the number of CWA owners!!



You are sadly mistaken on how CWA operates and your woes not due to it.  Each  resort has so many units converted to  symbolic points.

If I buy  say a 154 point CWA contract and Wyndham deposits  with CWA then there are 154K points at that resort available to all CWA owners on first comes, first gets. Sure, any   ONE owing  154K  CWA points at one of around 56 resorts can book there  at 13 month point. Once  my 154K points are gone CWA owners are SOL.

Also,  CWA points are spread over year to prevent CWA owners from all booking  prime or  special event week.

As a CWA owner I can guarantee if I call red hot resort at say 12 month mark they will say no availability while  plenty of ARP.

Yes, CWA does allow owner at Branson, MO where ARP is worthless to pay  a ransom and  convert to CWA  and  at 7:00AM grab one unit at red hot resort that  some one there has deposited with CWA  and gets  a reservation somewhere else.


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## ronparise

rcollinsny said:


> The main advantage at buying points at a specific resort was to get ARP benefits at that resort. In the past ONLY owners at that resort could book a reservation at the 13 month window. Now all CWA owners can book at the same 13 month window. So owning advantages at a specific resort has been dramatically reduced based on CWA. It used to be limited based on the number of owners that the home resort was allowed to have based on deeded proportions but not any longer. We have already not been able to book prime seasonal activities that we were always able to book before CWA came into effect and it will only get worse since there is NO limit on the number of CWA owners!!



I understood that CWA inventory and UDI inventory were in separate buckets for ARP

So, if at a hypothetical 150 unit resort,   50 units are sold into CWA and 100 UDI,  the 5000 UDI owners can ARP into the 100 units. And the universe of CWA owners can ARP into 50 units

...To be sure,  its as if he owns at a smaller resort but the odds that a UDI owner will get the reservation he wants doesnt change because some of the units are in CWA

If  Im right about the separate buckets, I dont see how the number of CWA owners changes anything regarding ARP


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## rickandcindy23

Dear Valued Club Wyndham Owner:

We are pleased to inform you of an upcoming change to your CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus membership that will simplify your usage in the future and allow us to better serve you.

As you may know, all contracts in the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program have one of four "Use Years": January 1 to December 31; April 1 to March 31 of the following year; July 1 to June 30 of the following year, or October 1 to September 30 of the following year.

We have identified your membership as having at least two contracts with different Use Years. This means that you currently have points beginning and ending multiple times throughout the year. In an effort to improve your membership experience, we have begun the process of consolidating all your contracts so that they have the same Use Year End Date, 12/31.

Please note that your contract with the latest Use Year End Date will be unchanged. However, any contract(s) that does not have the same Use Year as the one with the latest End Date will be changed to that date. This change will be effective as of November 19, 2012.

We recognize that moving your Use Year End date to a later quarter also results in a delay of the start date of these points. So, we have been authorized to award you a one-time additional allocation of Points for you to use at no cost to you! The amount of points you will be awarded for each contract is based upon how many quarters we move your Use Year. If it is moved one quarter later, you will receive an additional allocation of 25% of your annual points; If it is moved two quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 50% of your annual points; and if it is moved three quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 75% of your annual points.

For example:				
Contract
Number:	
Annual
Points:

Current
Use Year:	New
Use Year:	Additional One-time Point
Allocation:                                               
??-34-	154,000     	1/1 to 12/31   	1/1 to 12/31 (no change)	n/a       
??-76-	300,000	        7/1 to 6/30	        1/1 to 12/31	150,000

This change does not impact points deposited with RCI, II or the Points Credit Pool, as well as Bonus Points, PIC Points and Cancelled Reservation Points.

Again, this change is effective as of November 19, 2012. After this date, please feel free to check your account status online at clubwyndham.com to confirm the Use Year changes and the award of the additional Point allocations.

If you have any questions related to this matter, we have established a dedicated toll-free phone number, 855-800-6749. This number will be operational Monday through Friday 8am to 8pm EST through the end of the year. We look forward to assisting you with all of your vacation needs and appreciate the opportunity to be of service. 

Sincerely,

CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus


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## SOS8260456

Cindy, thanks for posting that.  It states that PIC contracts will not be affected by this.  This is interesting because the use year for PIC contracts begins when you PIC it, so we frequently have "weird" use years, like 1/16/12 to 1/15/13.  

I guess I better pay more attention to our emails.  We do have one July 1 contract, but the points are all pooled through 2014.

Well, they want this change bad enough to give up all those bonus points, so that tells us right there that owners are getting the short end of the stick in other areas.


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## SOS8260456

ronparise said:


> If  Im right about the separate buckets, I dont see how the number of CWA owners changes anything regarding ARP



I think you are correct about the separate buckets.

The problem comes into play as they convince more and more owners to convert to CWA.  This makes less units/points available in the older buckets.

We ran into this problem years ago when Equivest was bought out by Festiva.  We were not required to convert to Festiva points, but as more people converted to Festiva or defaulted, less inventory became available to us.  I am very grateful we got out of that mess.  Of course, Equivest had a limited number of properties to begin with, no where near the number of properties that Wyndham has.


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## rcollinsny

*Perfect Example*



ronparise said:


> I understood that CWA inventory and UDI inventory were in separate buckets for ARP
> 
> So, if at a hypothetical 150 unit resort 50 units are sold into CWA and 100 UDI the 5000 UDI owners can ARP into the 100 units. And the universe of CWA owners can ARP into 50 units
> 
> ...To be sure,  its as if he owns at a smaller resort but the odds that a UDI owner will get the reservation he wants doesnt change because some of the units are in CWA
> 
> If  Im right about the separate buckets, I dont see how the number of CWA owners changes anything regarding ARP



Ron paints a perfect example of what I am talking about. "if at a hypothetical 150 unit resort 50 units are sold into CWA and 100 UDI the 5000 UDI owners can ARP into the 100 units. And the universe of CWA owners can ARP into 50 units". 
To prove my point and say this another way, this means that the original UDI owner had "exclusive" access to those 150 units before CWA and is now fighting for only 100 units. So no matter how you divide it up, the original UDI owner has had his ARP availability to that resort cut by 33%!!!


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## lcml11

rickandcindy23 said:


> Dear Valued Club Wyndham Owner:
> 
> We are pleased to inform you of an upcoming change to your CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus membership that will simplify your usage in the future and allow us to better serve you.
> 
> As you may know, all contracts in the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program have one of four "Use Years": January 1 to December 31; April 1 to March 31 of the following year; July 1 to June 30 of the following year, or October 1 to September 30 of the following year.
> 
> We have identified your membership as having at least two contracts with different Use Years. This means that you currently have points beginning and ending multiple times throughout the year. In an effort to improve your membership experience, we have begun the process of consolidating all your contracts so that they have the same Use Year End Date, 12/31.
> 
> Please note that your contract with the latest Use Year End Date will be unchanged. However, any contract(s) that does not have the same Use Year as the one with the latest End Date will be changed to that date. This change will be effective as of November 19, 2012.
> 
> We recognize that moving your Use Year End date to a later quarter also results in a delay of the start date of these points. So, we have been authorized to award you a one-time additional allocation of Points for you to use at no cost to you! The amount of points you will be awarded for each contract is based upon how many quarters we move your Use Year. If it is moved one quarter later, you will receive an additional allocation of 25% of your annual points; If it is moved two quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 50% of your annual points; and if it is moved three quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 75% of your annual points.
> 
> For example:
> Contract
> Number:
> Annual
> Points:
> 
> Current
> Use Year:	New
> Use Year:	Additional One-time Point
> Allocation:
> ??-34-	154,000     	1/1 to 12/31   	1/1 to 12/31 (no change)	n/a
> ??-76-	300,000	        7/1 to 6/30	        1/1 to 12/31	150,000
> 
> This change does not impact points deposited with RCI, II or the Points Credit Pool, as well as Bonus Points, PIC Points and Cancelled Reservation Points.
> 
> Again, this change is effective as of November 19, 2012. After this date, please feel free to check your account status online at clubwyndham.com to confirm the Use Year changes and the award of the additional Point allocations.
> 
> If you have any questions related to this matter, we have established a dedicated toll-free phone number, 855-800-6749. This number will be operational Monday through Friday 8am to 8pm EST through the end of the year. We look forward to assisting you with all of your vacation needs and appreciate the opportunity to be of service.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus



Availabilty for next year may get real brutal.  Image the number of points that are being dumped in next year, in essence, as bonus points.  I guess that means if you do not want to loss points, it might be wise to start booking before the extra points hit the system.


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## capital city

That is only is 1/3 of the owners switch over to CWA (if thats possible) or default on the contracts and Wyndham places them in the CWA. I don't see how the odds would change. 

Seems like all can be fixed by paying $39 to credit pool your points and have access to them for 3 years. That also seems much easier then cancelling at certain times and hoping the move to the right time period. 

So does this mean that since I just bought a deed with a july1 to june 30th use that if I buy a jan-dec they will automatically move it to july 1 and give me a 50% point bonus?


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## lcml11

capital city said:


> That is only is 1/3 of the owners switch over to CWA (if thats possible) or default on the contracts and Wyndham places them in the CWA. I don't see how the odds would change.
> 
> Seems like all can be fixed by paying $39 to credit pool your points and have access to them for 3 years. That also seems much easier then cancelling at certain times and hoping the move to the right time period.
> 
> So does this mean that since I just bought a deed with a july1 to june 30th use that if I buy a jan-dec they will automatically move it to july 1 and give me a 50% point bonus?



I guess that means if you do not want to loss points, it might be wise to start booking before the extra points hit the system.  Or, in the alternative, get the points into the credit pool before January 1st arrives, unless you have VIP status.  Then it would in accordance with your number of months that apply for the credit pool.

To answer your question, it appears so.


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## csxjohn

wrong post, sorry.


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## am1

How will converted fixed weeks get treated?


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## Sandy VDH

I suspect that is it a technology restriction that is driving the changes to align all of a single members contract to the same end date.  It is harder to create a system with multiple business rules that have various end dates. 

I do understand that you have been able to make use of a shortcoming in the current system by rolling over canceled points from one use year to the other.  But is that really a lack of enforcement of an existing policy vs a change in business rules.  Obviously the current system is that way, which is why you have been able to roll over canceled points beyond their intended expiration date.

Wyndham's rules, as described, never intended to allow you to roll cancelled points ahead in perpetuity, however the current system can not keep straight what the source date is of the points used, so therefore it does not know what use year to put those points back into.  It puts them into the latest cancelled use year, not necessarily the use year to the points actually came from.  If the system could figure use years out it could enforce it.  

Logically it is much more complicated to write a system that has variable expiration dates per membership.  So it seems after many years Wyndham has finally realized this and are changing contracts to align all contracts in a membership to the same calendar year.  Thus making systems easier to code and enforce.  The current system has no issues enforcing this rule for all contracts ending on the same use year. 

It is not a change for me as all my contracts have the same use year end date.  So this shortcoming of the Wyndham system is not a shortcoming I have been utilizing.  However I see it as a shortcoming and not a right.

I can see getting annoyed about losing a loophole that has been in place for sometime, but it is indeed a loophole, and not an new business rule change. 

I have had other loopholes that I have used from time to time, but I see them as loopholes I can exploit.  Not a rule that has been changed or privilege that has taken away.  There has been many of those VIP perks that have been adjusted, but Wyndham's rules do allow them to change things.   So I can not like it but I have no choice.  The change they are asking for is more of an enforcement of stated rules.

You can be annoyed, but I am not sure you really can force Wyndham into letting you to keep the perpetuity of rolling forward cancelled points.  Clearly that was not what they intended. 

They did change the rules to allow you to deposit cancelled points into RCI, but cancelled points must be used or deposited.  

I don't really see the points being given out as adjustments as bonus points.  But rather prorating you assignment of points over the length of time they are adjusting your use year.  If they change your use year and move it back 6 months, you are basically getting 18 months use, so therefore 150% of your annual allotment.  They call it a bonus, but what's in a name.  Bonus should better, but you are not getting anything more or less then you were contractually obligated to.  If you took your annual years points and figured out what you earn a quarter they are just allocating that per quarter over the extension of your use year to get to the same calendar end date.  Not really a bonus in my eyes.

JMHO


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## am1

The problem will be for next year and possibly the year after that there will not be enough reservations available.  That will hurt everyone.  

This will be even more of a problem as wyndham is going to be giving out bonus points.


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## ronparise

rcollinsny said:


> Ron paints a perfect example of what I am talking about. "if at a hypothetical 150 unit resort 50 units are sold into CWA and 100 UDI the 5000 UDI owners can ARP into the 100 units. And the universe of CWA owners can ARP into 50 units".
> To prove my point and say this another way, this means that the original UDI owner had "exclusive" access to those 150 units before CWA and is now fighting for only 100 units. So no matter how you divide it up, the original UDI owner has had his ARP availability to that resort cut by 33%!!!



You are missing my point...Your chances dont diminish at all  if all 150 units in my example were sold UDI there will be  7500 owners and one owner will have a 150 in 7500 chance of getting the ARP reservation they want. if 50 units and 2500 owners are taken out ant put into CWA then the UDI owner will have a 100 in 5000 chance of getting a room  either way its a 2% chance

Put another way. You are not competing with the CWA owners for your UDI inventory. Nothing has changed, you are competing only with the other udi owners for udi inventory CWA owners are competing for their own inventory. They are the ones that have been sold with false promises

The reason you are having a more difficult time getting what you want is because the resort is closer to sold out now than it was in the beginning
In the first year of sales at a particular resort there may have been only 1000 owners competing for those 100 rooms, now there are closer to 5000.


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## ronparise

am1 said:


> The problem will be for next year and possibly the year after that there will not be enough reservations available.  That will hurt everyone.
> 
> This will be even more of a problem as wyndham is going to be giving out bonus points.



I dont think it changes anything. 100000 points used in 12 months is no different than 150000 points good for 18 months,,,same o same o


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## vacationhopeful

Bonus points with NO ARP whereas my different USE YEARS had ARP scattered enough so if something was leftover/cancelled. I had 8-10 months to book something else.

Not happy either ...


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## Sandy VDH

am1 said:


> The problem will be for next year and possibly the year after that there will not be enough reservations available.  That will hurt everyone.
> 
> This will be even more of a problem as wyndham is going to be giving out bonus points.



There are no more or less points in the system then there were before.  All they are doing is changing the end dates of contracts, and allocating the prorated amount of point that they are extending the contracts.

Example your use year was July 1/12 to Jun 30/13 you had a 200K points allocation.  They are extending your use year from Jul 1/12 to Dec 31/13.  So now you have 1.5 years worth of points.  The bonus just really came from your prorated points that you would have got from Jul1/13 to Dec 31/13.  Not really a bonus but just an allocation of that half year's points now.  

You could always borrow from next year anyway, so it makes NO difference in the amount of points and thus usage of those points.


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## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> I dont think it changes anything. 100000 points used in 12 months is no different than 150000 points good for 18 months,,,same o same o



You and I agree.  Not sure everyone else gets it.

I think it is just the wording by Wyndham.  Call it a bonus and people will think they are getting something extra.  They are NOT.  But is sounds better.

Don't see why Wyndham could not treat those points as ARP, it is just not a full allotment, which might prove to be the issue.


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## am1

It will force people to use points before they expire.  No more pushing them forward for next year.  I am not sure what about that is hard to understand. 

After a few years it may level out but it will be a few rough years.


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## Sandy VDH

am1 said:


> It will force people to use points before they expire.  No more pushing them forward for next year.  I am not sure what about that is hard to understand.
> 
> After a few years it may level out but it will be a few rough years.



I understand it perfectly well.  

The system was always intended to use points before they expire.  

I think the few smart ones that have been rolling their points forward are very limited in number compared to the entire ownership that is oblivious, and it won't have as big an impact as you are thinking.  

My guess is that this will have none or very slight impact short term only.  All will back to normal with 18 months.

Again JMHO


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## ronparise

I wanted to comment on this last night but needed to organize my thoughts. So I slept  on it...This morning I find I dont have to comment at all except to second everything that Sandy has said

This is a loop hole or unintended consequence that Wyndham is fixing, not a benefit that they are taking away. The op said it wasnt a monetary thing it was a tool he used to manage his points and I would add, allowed him to make mistakes and easily recover from them...The change is that he will have to manage his business a little closer

This is I admit easy for me to say, because, like Sandy, Everything in my account, at present,  is a Jan use year.  So in my business I dont make Christmas or New Years or Thanksgiving reservations to hold for rentals. because if I had to cancel them I would have a lot of points to use or lose with only a month to go in the year. I try to manage my points so that my last rentals are done and paid for by September. If I do have a Christmas or New Years reservation to rent, and its not rented by my birthday (October) I cancel it and wholesale out the points. You may remember my ad from a few months ago where I offered my points at $4/1000). That was to avoid a use it or lose it situation now.

The op will have to manage his points a little closer, but Im confident he will figure out the new system and turn it to his advantage

Just wait until the VIP's favorite loophole (cancel, rebook; cancel and upgrade) is closed..there will be some real screaming going on then


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## littlestar

I always kind of wondered why Wyndham allowed you to have different use year contracts under one membership account as I was used to Disney Vacation Club rules before I bought Wyndham points.  DVC (Disney Vacation Club) doesn't allow it.  

If I bought a resale DVC contract with a different use year than my current one, DVC would create a separate membership number/account for it.


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## bnoble

I suspect this is a consequence of the Voyager roll-out.  I understand the OP's frustration about this "feature" being removed, but it really hasn't ever been something that I would call "guaranteed" in the directory---the problem has always been that the directory's assumption that every owner has a single Use Year; several things were open to interpretation when UYs overlap.  This "problem" now goes away.

There may well have been some sales staff that touted the "feature" to get people to buy, but like anything else the sales staff touts, well...YMMV.


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## SOS8260456

rickandcindy23 said:


> As you may know, all contracts in the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program have one of four "Use Years": January 1 to December 31; April 1 to March 31 of the following year; July 1 to June 30 of the following year, or October 1 to September 30 of the following year..............................................................................................
> 
> Please note that your contract with the latest Use Year End Date will be unchanged. However, any contract(s) that does not have the same Use Year as the one with the latest End Date will be changed to that date. This change will be effective as of November 19, 2012.
> 
> We recognize that moving your Use Year End date to a later quarter also results in a delay of the start date of these points. So, we have been authorized to award you a one-time additional allocation of Points for you to use at no cost to you! The amount of points you will be awarded for each contract is based upon how many quarters we move your Use Year. If it is moved one quarter later, you will receive an additional allocation of 25% of your annual points; If it is moved two quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 50% of your annual points; and if it is moved three quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 75% of your annual points.
> 
> 
> Again, this change is effective as of November 19, 2012. After this date, please feel free to check your account status online at clubwyndham.com to confirm the Use Year changes and the award of the additional Point allocations.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus



It looks like there will still be some fiscal year contracts out there.  Because if you only own one or if you own more and they are the same use year, the above states that they will be moving them to your latest use year.

Trying to figure this out in my head, but can't, so I will put it out there:

7/1/12 received 2012 point allocation, lets use 100K as an example
11/19/12 receive 2013 point allocation for 7/1/2013 plus bonus, 100K plus 50K
7/1/2013 receive nothing
1/1/2014 receive 2014 point allocation

So, in my mind those points are a bonus, unless I have been misunderstanding fiscal year contracts.  I do admit that I always wondered why they even existed.  We only own one fiscal year contract that we received for free and we did not pay attention to that benefit until after we received it.

Sandy is entirely correct that it is a loophole that was never suppose to be.  I am hoping that it is one step closer to allowing us to chooce which points we want to use to book, especially when booking online.  I haven't used ARP in years because the regular points would get taken and then it was a major pain calling in to have them fix it.  And since we make so many reservations, we gave up on it.


----------



## bogey21

Sandy VDH said:


> You can be annoyed, but I am not sure you really can force Wyndham into letting you to keep the perpetuity of rolling forward cancelled points. * Clearly that was not what they intended.*



I think the OP will disagree with you on this.  Their post clearly stated that in their opinion Wyndham did intend this.  Read their post.  It clearly says that this was a "benefit promoted by Wyndham sales staff to encourage........"

Wyndham is just like Marriott.  They will unilaterally change anything if it makes their life easier or profits larger.

George


----------



## Sandy VDH

From a computer system perspective, simplifying into a single use year end date is an easier requirement to enforce cancellation policy.  It doesn't matter what that date is, just that there is a single date.  

Much more difficult to enforce multiple use year expiration, as now you need to know expiration date of actual points used in each reservation.  Much harder to implement that complication of business rules.


----------



## Sandy VDH

I think the OP can be as annoyed as all hell, they listened to Wyndham sales and did so to utilize a flaw in the system enforcement.  

But just read this statement....



am1 said:


> It will force people to use points before they expire.  No more pushing them forward for next year.



Is not the expiration of points the rule, not the exception or loophole?  Would you not have some idea that at some point someone at Wyndham would enforce the rule that points expire on their expiration date.   It is indeed an expiration, not a roll over in perpetuity.  I think believing it would go on forever was the mistake. 

So yes I do think the OP can be mad, my point is that they don't have a leg to stand on to argue breach of contract from Wyndham.  There are clear expiration rules, they have been told to exploit those by Wyndham sales, but they no longer will be permitted to.  At least they purchased resale, image how pissed off those people who purchase from Wyndham as directed by sales, and now that is going away. 

What they are mad at is the closing of a loop hole that they had been utilizing.

I think that a reasonable person would expect that upon expiration date that all unused points expire.

You can still deposit them into RCI before they expire, cancelled or not.


----------



## timeos2

rcollinsny said:


> Apparently not, we have 10 contracts with fiscal year dates that they are forcing to have calendar year dates. Believe me, it fell on deaf ears when I called Wyndham and complained!!



While Wyndham represents a great bargain and good to excellent resorts and locations like every other non-owner controlled system you are at their mercy for unilateral changes that, legal or not, they can implement on their whim as they know most owners cannot afford to challenge it. It was a huge reason we decided in 2010 to sell off all our non-owner controlled ownerships along with the recent explosion of easily obtained and far less costly rentals vs ownership/trades.  

As it turns out the well known anti-owner policies of Wyndaham (and all the others as far as I can tell) has accelerated as the timeshare economy continues to sour and the real income becomes owners fees rather than new sales.  That, which translates to rapidly rising fees, lack of a resale market and aging owner base is a growing threat to what little value remains in ownership in these systems.  We're really glad we jumped ship to a much more accountable type of ownership.


----------



## am1

People that have other use years other than 12/31 will benefit a lot.  There will be a lot of points chasing the thanksgiving - New Years reservations.  If those people are do not get what they will want the points will go to waste.


----------



## chapjim

Sandy VDH said:


> I understand it perfectly well.
> 
> The system was always intended to use points before they expire.
> 
> I think the few smart ones that have been rolling their points forward are very limited in number compared to the entire ownership that is oblivious, and it won't have as big an impact as you are thinking.
> 
> My guess is that this will have none or very slight impact short term only.  All will back to normal with 18 months.
> 
> Again JMHO



I have a lot of points and three different use years.  I have been the beneficiary of having cancelled points rolled into a different Use Year than the one the came from.  But, it is not a feature I have "exploited" if that is the right word.  The reason is with anywhere from 30 to 40 open reservations at any given time, I couldn't keep track of where the points came from any better than Wyndham could.  (Several times, I've asked reservation counselors where the points would go if I cancelled a reservation.  They never knew.)

I can say I haven't lost any points in five or six years.  I suppose that may change or become more difficult to manage.

Sounds like the Points Credit Pool is the best shot to keep from losing points.  I've never used the credit pool; never had to.


----------



## ronparise

chapjim said:


> I have a lot of points and three different use years.  I have been the beneficiary of having cancelled points rolled into a different Use Year than the one the came from.  But, it is not a feature I have "exploited" if that is the right word.  The reason is with anywhere from 30 to 40 open reservations at any given time, I couldn't keep track of where the points came from any better than Wyndham could.  (Several times, I've asked reservation counselors where the points would go if I cancelled a reservation.  They never knew.)
> 
> I can say I haven't lost any points in five or six years.  I suppose that may change or become more difficult to manage.
> 
> Sounds like the Points Credit Pool is the best shot to keep from losing points.  I've never used the credit pool; never had to.



Jim

dont think the points credit pool will allow you to cancel reservations without consequence. If you make a reservation with pooled points, than cancel it the points become cancelled points that expire in the use year of the reservation

So that New Years/ Sugar Bowl reservation where you are checking in Fri Dec 28, 2012; If you cancel it you will have to use the points (or deposit them to RCI) before the end of this year

Im sure you know this, I just dont want anyone thinking that the Credit pool is the answer to the problem we are discussing here


----------



## CO skier

SOS8260456 said:


> ...
> 11/19/12 receive 2013 point allocation for 7/1/2013 plus bonus, 100K plus 50K



Where does it say that 2013 points will be received on 11/19/12?



rickandcindy23 said:


> We recognize that moving your Use Year End date to a later quarter also results in a delay of the start date of these points.



My understanding of this is that the April to October 2013 allocations will not be made until 1/1/2014, and this is why, for example, 50k points is being awarded to a 100k contract – those are the points for 7/1/13 to 12/31/13.

The points awarded on 11/19/2012 do not appear to be a "bonus," just and "advance" of points that would normally be allocated in the second two quarters of 2013.

What is not clear is what will happen on 1/1/2013.  If the “New Contract” receives the full, combined allocation of points, then there is a 6-month “bonus,” but this would be an advance of the start date for the 7/1/2013 points, not a “delay” as indicated in the Wyndham letter.  As I reread the letter, it seems to indicate that effective 11/19/2012 a July 1, 2013 – June 30, 2014 use year is moving to a use year of 1/1/2014 to 12/31/2014.  If this is true, then on 1/1/2013, only points for a 1/1/2013 to 12/31/2013 use year will be awarded.


----------



## pacodemountainside

*History Repeats Itself*

This reminds me of  uproar when  Wyndham/RCI eliminated the 28K reservation  " loophole".  All of  us using this perk which  was pointed out to us by a friendly Wyndham salesperson got our oxes gored.


John has hit the nail on head why Wyndham  will keep squeezing  us owners.

The VOI Trust  was created in 1991. Today is has around 500K members.

Actually  Wyndham ownership was as follows:

2009   515K

2010   519K

2011   523K

These numbers include  fixed week owners.

So,   to make  math easy   Wyndham was   adding around 25K owner  a year (500K divided by 20 years).
However for last two years just 4K each.

So, take VIP  benefits which cost Wyndham $12 million cash  in 2011.  Spreading this over 4K owners equals about $3K per new owner.  When selling 25K a year it works out to about $480.

Doing similar allocation for  other expenses, especially RTS and  profit has to be impacted.

Think increase in transfer fee from $100 to $299 and making applicable to fixed weeks.

Thinking small stuff they used to have  soft drinks and cookies in waiting area and lunch or breakfast was SOP.

I sure don't see things  improving!


----------



## pacodemountainside

ronparise said:


> You are missing my point...Your chances dont diminish at all  if all 150 units in my example were sold UDI there will be  7500 owners and one owner will have a 150 in 7500 chance of getting the ARP reservation they want. if 50 units and 2500 owners are taken out ant put into CWA then the UDI owner will have a 100 in 5000 chance of getting a room  either way its a 2% chance
> 
> Put another way. You are not competing with the CWA owners for your UDI inventory. Nothing has changed, you are competing only with the other udi owners for udi inventory CWA owners are competing for their own inventory. They are the ones that have been sold with false promises
> 
> The reason you are having a more difficult time getting what you want is because the resort is closer to sold out now than it was in the beginning
> In the first year of sales at a particular resort there may have been only 1000 owners competing for those 100 rooms, now there are closer to 5000.



Ron:

You folks down Florida way  get up awful early(6:55 AM).  Filed my response  essentially duplicating  yours   away!:zzz:


----------



## divearnd

I had a long discussion with a Wyndham rep, this morning, about this change which, per their email, indicates that this is 'exciting', 'enhanced member benefits' and, per the rep, will help members better manage their contracts.  She took offense when I told her that she was alluding that members where not capable of managing their contracts and the Wyndham knew better (almost sounds like out Government).  After going round and round I asked her to tell me where in my contract(s) Wyndham could change Use Years.  She put me on hold, for about 10 minutes, and came back and said it was in the Trust Agreement that 'contracts would have one use year'.  I agreed that each contract has one use year, mine having to be from 1/1 to 12/31 and others from 10/1 - 9/30.  She attempted to convince me that the 'one Use Year' is for all contracts I own and that is why they are changing all contracts to 1/1 - 12/31.  She denied that this change had anything to do with the ability to roll points from one Use Year to an overlapping Use Year.  For those of you who have been taking advantage of this 'rollover' I am sure many of you where made aware of this through a sales rep (Jeff Lewis, Tina Sciarrino, Pam Parker, Elizabeth Matthews, etc.).  Two years ago, while at an Owners Meeting in Orlando, I was skeptical when sales mentioned this 'unknown benefit' of overlapping Use Years.  So I met with Earl Gilette and Jeff Lewis.  They assured me that this was how the system worked and they had clearance through the legal department to sell contracts based upon this information.  Jeff then took me to a computer and, using my logon, demonstrated that it did work.  They both did indicate that Wyndham was considering only selling 1/1 - 12/31 contracts moving forward to avoid this rollover issue but, they said, once you have it Wyndham could not take it away.  Last year, while at Old Town Alexandria, I found out that Jeff Lewis had moved there from Bonnet Creek.  While Jeff was not in the office during my stay I did speak to a sales rep who informed me that they also where told that they could sell over lapping Use Year contracts to give members this rollover benefit.  When I brought this up to the Wyndham rep I was speaking to this morning she said that some sales may not have been aware that the 'Trust Agreement' indicated that contracts must have 'one Use Year' (as Wyndham is now defining the Use Year).  She disagreed with me when I said that if the Trust Agreement supposedly defines the Use Year as 1/1 - 12/31 then Wyndham Sales, and their computer system, has set a precedence of allowing overlapping Use Years and , therefore, based on this precedence Wyndham cannot change existing contracts.  If Wyndham sales was selling contracts in violation of their Trust Agreement then I told her this may be fraud and subject Wyndham to a very large class action lawsuit.  After speaking to her I looked over the Trust Agreement.  It defines Use Year to be ' the end date of the Use Year one of the following four quarterly dates: March 31, June 30, September 30, December 31'.  I searched the Agreement and saw nothing that indicated that Wyndham, Trust Agreement management or other affiliate could change contract Use Years.  The Trust Agreement does indicate that if terms and conditions in it differ from the Directory that the Directory takes precedence.  I see nothing in the Directory that defines a Use Year to be from 1/1 - 12/31.  The only thing the Directory does say, and we all know it, is that unused points will expire at the end of the Use Year.  Sorry for the long post.  I look forward to hearing what the rest of you think and if you think a class action should be persued.

I called Old Town Alexandria this morning and was told that Jeff Lewis left about a month ago but they do not know where he went.


----------



## Sandy VDH

chapjim said:


> But, it is not a feature I have "exploited" if that is the right word.  The reason is with anywhere from 30 to 40 open reservations at any given time, I couldn't keep track of where the points came from any better than Wyndham could.



By "Exploited", I mean knowingly and willinging utilized a lack of enforcement in the system to your advantage.  If you had it happen by accident and don't know how or why your points moved to another use year, you are not exploiting.

But if you are doing something, knowing or expecting it to break a business rule (points expire), then you are indeed exploiting it.  If you realized or were told that you could just roll the canceled over to the next year and didn't have to worry about what you did as you realized you would never actually loose points.

I think that if sales really stated it was a Benefit and it was written as a benefit, then you may have a case for fraud, But where is it is documented as a benefit.  Clearly an expiration of the points at the end of the use year is an expectation that one should have.  I think they just realized they were having enforcement issues, and could not get the computer system to enforce was clearly were indended as rules. 

Let me give you an example....

I exploited a lack of consistent enforcement by rules in HGVC, knowing it was an inconsistency with set rules, but not enforced by the system (even though it was manually enforced over the phone). I knew it was a system flaw, and that one day would might very well go away.

Rule 1) With HGVC I used to be able to book a 7 day reservation for NO fee as a VIP member.  Rule 2)Book more than or less than 7 days there was a $39 fee to book. Rule 3) Online reservations, once booked where free of charge to change. 

So what did I do if I wanted a 4 day reservation and wanted to NOT pay a fee.  I booked a 7 day online, no fee.  I immediately change the 7 day to a 4 day again no fee.  So I got a 4 day ressie for no charge.  Not what the rules intended, but what the system enforced. Online it checked rule 1 and rule 3, but forgot to check if you changed from rule 1 to rule 2 you should collect a fee. The phone VC know to check and enforce this rule.

One day HGVC implemented a system change that checks what the original fee was, and what the new fee would be.  If fee was 0 and is not 39, it will prompt me to pay the fee.  

So now I don't get fee reservations for other than 7 day bookings.  Oh well, it was nice while it lasted, but I expected at some point they might just figure it out. 

I don't blame anyone for utilizing a flaw in the system, but come on, do you really think it was a benefit.   I just don't think that you should have an expectation it would NOT continue forever. 

It should be more like it was nice while it lasted.

I think I have said enough.


----------



## SOS8260456

CO skier said:


> Where does it say that 2013 points will be received on 11/19/12?
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding of this is that the April to October 2013 allocations will not be made until 1/1/2014, and this is why, for example, 50k points is being awarded to a 100k contract – those are the points for 7/1/13 to 12/31/13.
> 
> The points awarded on 11/19/2012 do not appear to be a "bonus," just and "advance" of points that would normally be allocated in the second two quarters of 2013.
> 
> What is not clear is what will happen on 1/1/2013.  If the “New Contract” receives the full, combined allocation of points, then there is a 6-month “bonus,” but this would be an advance of the start date for the 7/1/2013 points, not a “delay” as indicated in the Wyndham letter.  As I reread the letter, it seems to indicate that effective 11/19/2012 a July 1, 2013 – June 30, 2014 use year is moving to a use year of 1/1/2014 to 12/31/2014.  If this is true, then on 1/1/2013, only points for a 1/1/2013 to 12/31/2013 use year will be awarded.



I said I couldn't get it figured out it my head.   Your post helped alot.

Even with different use years, Wyndham's intention was always that the cancelled points either go back to the exact year they came from, or come forward to the earliest use year used, similiar to the way pooled points work.  I even think I remember reading it in one of the documents along time ago and then being pleasantly surprized.

We follow Ron's rule of thoughts on how we manage our points, especially once we realized that we see no benefit in depositing points in either RCI or II, so we do our best to avoid it.

And like Ron mentioned, you have to be careful with pooled points, because you can easily get stuck with 2014 points that you pooled ending up having to be used by 12/31/12.  

I can't wait to see what happens this year when we PIC one of our weeks and end up with a use year of 1/25 to 1/24.


----------



## ronparise

divearnd said:


> I had a long discussion with a Wyndham rep, this morning, about this change which, per their email, indicates that this is 'exciting', 'enhanced member benefits' and, per the rep, will help members better manage their contracts.  She took offense when I told her that she was alluding that members where not capable of managing their contracts and the Wyndham knew better (almost sounds like out Government).  After going round and round I asked her to tell me where in my contract(s) Wyndham could change Use Years.  She put me on hold, for about 10 minutes, and came back and said it was in the Trust Agreement that 'contracts would have one use year'.  I agreed that each contract has one use year, mine having to be from 1/1 to 12/31 and others from 10/1 - 9/30.  She attempted to convince me that the 'one Use Year' is for all contracts I own and that is why they are changing all contracts to 1/1 - 12/31.  She denied that this change had anything to do with the ability to roll points from one Use Year to an overlapping Use Year.  For those of you who have been taking advantage of this 'rollover' I am sure many of you where made aware of this through a sales rep (Jeff Lewis, Tina Sciarrino, Pam Parker, Elizabeth Matthews, etc.).  Two years ago, while at an Owners Meeting in Orlando, I was skeptical when sales mentioned this 'unknown benefit' of overlapping Use Years.  So I met with Earl Gilette and Jeff Lewis.  They assured me that this was how the system worked and they had clearance through the legal department to sell contracts based upon this information.  Jeff then took me to a computer and, using my logon, demonstrated that it did work.  They both did indicate that Wyndham was considering only selling 1/1 - 12/31 contracts moving forward to avoid this rollover issue but, they said, once you have it Wyndham could not take it away.  Last year, while at Old Town Alexandria, I found out that Jeff Lewis had moved there from Bonnet Creek.  While Jeff was not in the office during my stay I did speak to a sales rep who informed me that they also where told that they could sell over lapping Use Year contracts to give members this rollover benefit.  When I brought this up to the Wyndham rep I was speaking to this morning she said that some sales may not have been aware that the 'Trust Agreement' indicated that contracts must have 'one Use Year' (as Wyndham is now defining the Use Year).  She disagreed with me when I said that if the Trust Agreement supposedly defines the Use Year as 1/1 - 12/31 then Wyndham Sales, and their computer system, has set a precedence of allowing overlapping Use Years and , therefore, based on this precedence Wyndham cannot change existing contracts.  If Wyndham sales was selling contracts in violation of their Trust Agreement then I told her this may be fraud and subject Wyndham to a very large class action lawsuit.  After speaking to her I looked over the Trust Agreement.  It defines Use Year to be ' the end date of the Use Year one of the following four quarterly dates: March 31, June 30, September 30, December 31'.  I searched the Agreement and saw nothing that indicated that Wyndham, Trust Agreement management or other affiliate could change contract Use Years.  The Trust Agreement does indicate that if terms and conditions in it differ from the Directory that the Directory takes precedence.  I see nothing in the Directory that defines a Use Year to be from 1/1 - 12/31.  The only thing the Directory does say, and we all know it, is that unused points will expire at the end of the Use Year.  Sorry for the long post.  I look forward to hearing what the rest of you think and if you think a class action should be persued.
> 
> I called Old Town Alexandria this morning and was told that Jeff Lewis left about a month ago but they do not know where he went.



You may win the battle (which I doubt) and lose the war

If it turns out that you are able to convince Wyndham to leave your several use years intact and if they do that for all of us. then all they have to do is to  change their computer program to put cancel points in the 1st expiring use year rather than the last expiring use year in your account. Contrary to what Sandy has said, I dont think that this will be a difficult fix for them

My point is that If Wyndham has decided that they are going to close this loophole that allows  unlimited rolling of expiration dates they will. If your good argument closes one door for them, they will find another.

It will be the same thing when they decided to disallow the cancel and rebook trick....When they decide to do, it they will


----------



## pacodemountainside

divearnd said:


> I had a long discussion with a Wyndham rep, this morning, about this change which, per their email, indicates that this is 'exciting', 'enhanced member benefits' and, per the rep, will help members better manage their contracts.  She took offense when I told her that she was alluding that members where not capable of managing their contracts and the Wyndham knew better (almost sounds like out Government).  After going round and round I asked her to tell me where in my contract(s) Wyndham could change Use Years.  She put me on hold, for about 10 minutes, and came back and said it was in the Trust Agreement that 'contracts would have one use year'.  I agreed that each contract has one use year, mine having to be from 1/1 to 12/31 and others from 10/1 - 9/30.  She attempted to convince me that the 'one Use Year' is for all contracts I own and that is why they are changing all contracts to 1/1 - 12/31.  She denied that this change had anything to do with the ability to roll points from one Use Year to an overlapping Use Year.  For those of you who have been taking advantage of this 'rollover' I am sure many of you where made aware of this through a sales rep (Jeff Lewis, Tina Sciarrino, Pam Parker, Elizabeth Matthews, etc.).  Two years ago, while at an Owners Meeting in Orlando, I was skeptical when sales mentioned this 'unknown benefit' of overlapping Use Years.  So I met with Earl Gilette and Jeff Lewis.  They assured me that this was how the system worked and they had clearance through the legal department to sell contracts based upon this information.  Jeff then took me to a computer and, using my logon, demonstrated that it did work.  They both did indicate that Wyndham was considering only selling 1/1 - 12/31 contracts moving forward to avoid this rollover issue but, they said, once you have it Wyndham could not take it away.  Last year, while at Old Town Alexandria, I found out that Jeff Lewis had moved there from Bonnet Creek.  While Jeff was not in the office during my stay I did speak to a sales rep who informed me that they also where told that they could sell over lapping Use Year contracts to give members this rollover benefit.  When I brought this up to the Wyndham rep I was speaking to this morning she said that some sales may not have been aware that the 'Trust Agreement' indicated that contracts must have 'one Use Year' (as Wyndham is now defining the Use Year).  She disagreed with me when I said that if the Trust Agreement supposedly defines the Use Year as 1/1 - 12/31 then Wyndham Sales, and their computer system, has set a precedence of allowing overlapping Use Years and , therefore, based on this precedence Wyndham cannot change existing contracts.  If Wyndham sales was selling contracts in violation of their Trust Agreement then I told her this may be fraud and subject Wyndham to a very large class action lawsuit.  After speaking to her I looked over the Trust Agreement.  It defines Use Year to be ' the end date of the Use Year one of the following four quarterly dates: March 31, June 30, September 30, December 31'.  I searched the Agreement and saw nothing that indicated that Wyndham, Trust Agreement management or other affiliate could change contract Use Years.  The Trust Agreement does indicate that if terms and conditions in it differ from the Directory that the Directory takes precedence.  I see nothing in the Directory that defines a Use Year to be from 1/1 - 12/31.  The only thing the Directory does say, and we all know it, is that unused points will expire at the end of the Use Year.  Sorry for the long post.  I look forward to hearing what the rest of you think and if you think a class action should be persued.
> 
> I called Old Town Alexandria this morning and was told that Jeff Lewis left about a month ago but they do not know where he went.





Not an attorney, but as I read Trust Documents, The Directory is the Bible and can be amended at Wyndham whim. I have not seen anything about 2012-2013 Directory so may be holding up to add all the changes.

About three years ago Wyndham did change cancellation policy to total forfeiture at 15 days, so it appears the Triumphant has free rein. See 11.03 below!

Of course, suing the Trust is suing yourself.

Based on out come of two RCI Class Action Lawsuits if "winner", what are the spoils?

I do own one contract with March 31, date so will possibly effect me???

ARTICLE XI 
TRUST PROPERTY RESERVATIONS 
11.01 Directory. Set forth below in summary form are certain of the most important features of the Plan. The rules, regulations, guidelines, policies and procedures related to the allocation of Points to the Trust Properties and the use of Points by Members in connection with the Trust Properties and the Plan are fully described in the Directory. In the event of a conflict between the information described in this Article XI and the information set forth in the Directory, the information set forth in the Directory shall be controlling. Wyndham, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to amend the Directory and the provisions therein from time to time as may be necessary to implement the Plan. 

11.02 Use Year. All Members shall be assigned a “Use Year” which determines the expiration date of such Member’s Points for that particular year. Each Member shall have as the end date of his “Use Year” one of the following four quarterly dates:: March 31, June 30, September 30 or December 31. 

11.03 Reservations. The rules, regulations and guidelines concerning reservations and exchanges shall be set forth in the Directory. Reservations canceled thirty (30) days or more prior to the first day of intended use shall not result in a loss of Points. Reservations canceled less than thirty (30) days prior to the first day of intended use shall affect the use of the Member’s Points in the manner described in the Directory (and may include the loss of the Points used by the Member for the reservation.)


----------



## SOS8260456

pacodemountainside said:


> 11.03 Reservations. The rules, regulations and guidelines concerning reservations and exchanges shall be set forth in the Directory. Reservations canceled thirty (30) days or more prior to the first day of intended use shall not result in a loss of Points. Reservations canceled less than thirty (30) days prior to the first day of intended use shall affect the use of the Member’s Points in the manner described in the Directory (and may include the loss of the Points used by the Member for the reservation.)



Why is the term "limited use" points going through my head right now?  Remember those?


----------



## bogey21

timeos2 said:


> While Wyndham represents a great bargain and good to excellent resorts and locations like every other non-owner controlled system you are at their mercy for unilateral changes that, legal or not, they can implement on their whim as they know most owners cannot afford to challenge it. It was a huge reason we decided in 2010 to sell off all our non-owner controlled ownerships........




Agree 100% although I started selling my non-owner controlled ownerships a lot earlier because the non-owner controlled Managements can do whatever they damn well please usually to the detriment of their Owners.

George


----------



## CO skier

pacodemountainside said:


> 11.02 Use Year. All Members shall be assigned a “Use Year” which determines the expiration date of such Member’s Points for that particular year. Each Member shall have as the end date of his “Use Year” one of the following four quarterly dates:: March 31, June 30, September 30 or December 31.



Interesting to note that it states, "All _Members _shall be assigned a Use Year ..." and not "All _Contracts _shall be assigned a Use Year ..."

That pretty much spells it out.


----------



## Free2Roam

SOS8260456 said:


> Why is the term "limited use" points going through my head right now?  Remember those?



I remember those... And from what I remember you got them if you canceled a reservation less than 30 days and you could only use them for reservations within 30 days or less. I was happy to see that go away.


----------



## karentrimmer

*I am confused*

I have not received this letter as of yet, however I have to wonder the following.  I have a total of 6 contracts 2 with Seawatch Plantation, 2 with Ocean Blvd, 1 with Westwinds, 1 with the Cottages.   Are they saying that they are going to combine the 2 Seawatch Plantation contracts into 1 contract with a use year and the 2 Ocean Blvd Contracts into a use year or are they trying to combine all 6 into a use year.  If they are trying to combine all 6 - how can they do that when my deeds are to the 4 different places?


----------



## CO skier

karentrimmer said:


> I have not received this letter as of yet, however I have to wonder the following.  I have a total of 6 contracts 2 with Seawatch Plantation, 2 with Ocean Blvd, 1 with Westwinds, 1 with the Cottages.   Are they saying that they are going to combine the 2 Seawatch Plantation contracts into 1 contract with a use year and the 2 Ocean Blvd Contracts into a use year or are they trying to combine all 6 into a use year.  If they are trying to combine all 6 - how can they do that when my deeds are to the 4 different places?



The contracts will still remain separate; they will all just change to an end use date of December 31 (or whatever the end use date of your latest contract).


----------



## pacodemountainside

*Limited Use Points*



SOS8260456 said:


> Why is the term "limited use" points going through my head right now?  Remember those?



Dredged  up the following from archives.


[b:]item 9   "Reservations must be cancelled more than 30 days prior to use so our Points can be used at another time. Reservations canceled less than 30 days days prior to use will receive Limited Account Points that can be used only to confirm reservations thirty days or less from date of arrival." 

[b:]  "Thus canceling inside of 15 days (15 days would be included in the "less than 30 days") now forfeits all points. A Benefit Lost."


----------



## regatta333

pacodemountainside said:


> Dredged  up the following from archives.
> 
> 
> [b:]item 9   "Reservations must be cancelled more than 30 days prior to use so our Points can be used at another time. Reservations canceled less than 30 days days prior to use will receive Limited Account Points that can be used only to confirm reservations thirty days or less from date of arrival."
> 
> [b:]  "Thus canceling inside of 15 days (15 days would be included in the "less than 30 days") now forfeits all points. A Benefit Lost."



Limited account points went away when they implemented the forfeiture of points when reservations are cancelled inside of 15 days.  Now they are all just cancelled points.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Yes but they allowed cancelled points to be deposited into RCI.  At new benefit.

I would be happy with the selection of points to make a booking, either using cancelled to better manage them and use them up first, or ARP to select which units and points you want to ARP.


----------



## regatta333

Sandy VDH said:


> Yes but they allowed cancelled points to be deposited into RCI.  At new benefit.



Cancelled points could always be deposited to RCI; this was not a new benefit.


----------



## SOS8260456

They gave with one hand:  

no more limited points, they would be cancelled points, therefore if you cancelled between 15 and 30 days you could still deposit them in RCI if it was too late to book something else.

They took away with the other:

losing all points within the 15 day time frame PLUS putting restrictions on any reservations made during those last 15 days


----------



## Sandy VDH

regatta333 said:


> Cancelled points could always be deposited to RCI; this was not a new benefit.



A long long time ago, canceled points were restricted.  I thought it was only for use within Wyndham.  It has been sometime since this has changed.  I don't think I am losing my mind, but it is the end of the long long week.


----------



## DBLYES

rcollinsny said:


> Has anyone else received an email from Wyndham stating that they are forcing all of your contracts to have the same fiscal year ending date? We got one today and I called the Presidential Reserve hotline to see what was going on. They confirmed that as of November 19, 2012, all 19 of our contracts will have the same fiscal year ending date!!
> 
> That will kill our ability to roll cancel points from one fiscal year to another. As it is now we never have to worry about losing cancel points. The new scheme means we will have to use all cancel points in the year issued or they will be lost.
> 
> This was a benefit promoted by the Wyndham sales staff to encourage people to buy additional contracts so their cancel points would never expire. (we did not buy from Wyndham for this but did buy resale contracts to achieve the same goal)
> 
> Between this and the Club Access feature which killed the advantage of owning at a specific resort for ARP privileges for existing owners prior to Club Access, we are quickly losing all of the benefits previously provided by Wyndham.




I contacted Wyndham Owner's Relations today and they did confirm they plan to change to one use year effective Nov. 19, 2013 and owners may see the change in use years and points within the next 10 days. The person I spoke to stated that they are looking to move the use years up and this will impact some owners very soon. For example, I have a contract that ends March 31 and begins April 1st. I was informed that I will recieve points that I must use by Dec 31, 2012 or place in RCI and my use year for this contract would move to January 2013 from April 1, 2013. If this is true there will be a major rush to use points by the end of the year.


----------



## SOS8260456

DBLYES said:


> . If this is true there will be a major rush to use points by the end of the year.



Or a lot of points to deposit into RCI which leads to exchange fees, etc......

They definately know how to give a bonus.


----------



## DBLYES

DBLYES said:


> I contacted Wyndham Owner's Relations today and they did confirm they plan to change to one use year effective Nov. 19, 2013 and owners may see the change in use years and points within the next 10 days. The person I spoke to stated that they are looking to move the use years up and this will impact some owners very soon. For example, I have a contract that ends March 31 and begins April 1st. I was informed that I will recieve points that I must use by Dec 31, 2012 or place in RCI and my use year for this contract would move to January 2013 from April 1, 2013. If this is true there will be a major rush to use points by the end of the year.



It will be effective Nov. 19, 2012..sorry for the typo


----------



## rcollinsny

*Finally - a clear understanding of what is going to happen!!*



am1 said:


> The problem will be for next year and possibly the year after that there will not be enough reservations available.  That will hurt everyone.
> 
> This will be even more of a problem as Wyndham is going to be giving out bonus points.



After 3 calls to Wyndham and trying to sort out the contradictory answers I received from them, I finally reached Jennifer at the Presidential Reserve hotline who really knew what she was talking about. So let me try and recap those discussions for everyone and hopefully clear up a lot of the confusion in the thread discussions above.

First off, there are NO bonus points being handed out. The only points being dispersed are the points required to move a contract year end date in alignment with the latest year end date on any of your contracts. Let's keep it simple and assume you have one contract with a calendar year end date of 12/31 and you have another contract with 500,000 points and a 6/30 year end date. This second contract will be forced to align with the 12/31 year end date of the "latest" contract. So on or before 11/19, you will receive 50% of the value of that contract or 250,000 points with a year end date of 12/31/13 since your next allocation of 500,000 points will NOT occur until 1/1/14. You have already received the 500,000 points on 7/1/12 to last you thru 6/30/13 and the allocated 250,000 points makes up the difference from 6/30/13 to your next allocation on 1/1/14.

So the bottom line is that we are NOT receiving any "extra" or "bonus" points and there will be no mass march on reservation inventories in 2013. We are getting nothing additional to what we would have received in points if this change did not happen.

I hope I explained that so everyone could understand. If not, fire away with your questions and I will do my best to clarify what is coming down!!


----------



## am1

If I already borrowed or credit pooled future use year points?  

How does it affect ARP with only getting half of your yearly points early?  

ARP will lose its value.  If you decide to cancel its possible you have only a few days to use the points where as it is now you can ARP new years decide to cancel and still have till 3/31/ 6/30 or 9/30 to make a new reservation.  I bought contracts based on this.  No sales gimmick or loophole.


----------



## rcollinsny

rcollinsny said:


> After 3 calls to Wyndham and trying to sort out the contradictory answers I received from them, I finally reached Jennifer at the Presidential Reserve hotline who really knew what she was talking about. So let me try and recap those discussions for everyone and hopefully clear up a lot of the confusion in the thread discussions above.
> 
> First off, there are NO bonus points being handed out. The only points being dispersed are the points required to move a contract year end date in alignment with the latest year end date on any of your contracts. Let's keep it simple and assume you have one contract with a calendar year end date of 12/31 and you have another contract with 500,000 points and a 6/30 year end date. This second contract will be forced to align with the 12/31 year end date of the "latest" contract. So on or before 11/19, you will receive 50% of the value of that contract or 250,000 points with a year end date of 12/31/13 since your next allocation of 500,000 points will NOT occur until 1/1/14. You have already received the 500,000 points on 7/1/12 to last you thru 6/30/13 and the allocated 250,000 points makes up the difference from 6/30/13 to your next allocation on 1/1/14.
> 
> So the bottom line is that we are NOT receiving any "extra" or "bonus" points and there will be no mass march on reservation inventories in 2013. We are getting nothing additional to what we would have received in points if this change did not happen.
> 
> I hope I explained that so everyone could understand. If not, fire away with your questions and I will do my best to clarify what is coming down!!



Looks like I am repeating much of what has already been printed. For some reason my list of comments was not refreshing so I had not seen 2 pages of comments when I posted this. My apologies for being redundant!!


----------



## rcollinsny

am1 said:


> If I already borrowed or credit pooled future use year points?
> 
> How does it affect ARP with only getting half of your yearly points early?
> 
> ARP will lose its value.  If you decide to cancel its possible you have only a few days to use the points where as it is now you can ARP new years decide to cancel and still have till 3/31/ 6/30 or 9/30 to make a new reservation.  I bought contracts based on this.  No sales gimmick or loophole.



Excellent points and some of our main concerns!! Any late year cancellations are all but lost if one does not have the opportunity to book another reservation and use them. This change really emphasizes the penalty we pay as owners for following all of the rules and still being penalized for having to cancel a reservation. At the 2011 WVO Owners meeting, Wyndham stated that they were going to quit penalizing the owners when they followed the rules for cancellations and do away with cancel points. When we cancelled before the 15 day window, our points would return as regular points. Today, they told me that change has been put on the back burner for now. So instead of removing the owner punishment for canceling a reservation, they have severely increased it!!


----------



## pacodemountainside

Suggest you scrounge up a copy of  March/April  2009  Timesharing Today and read  William Spearman's expose of Wyndham.

As we say out West,  he nailed their hide to the  barn wall long ago.

This is  just SOS since Fairfield morphed into Wyndham late 2006..

The crash of on line reservation system in 2007 was a harbinger of  horrors  to come. Think  "The Take Away" or  5 minute survey or 10 minute owner update for a trinket.


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> People that have other use years other than 12/31 will benefit a lot.  There will be a lot of points chasing the thanksgiving - New Years reservations.  If those people are do not get what they will want the points will go to waste.



There may be some merit to this line of thought.  PIC, Cancelled, Credit  Pool, and Bonus points are not included at this point in time.  Those folks that have PIC contracts still, apparently, have a wide latitude in what month to place the PIC into for a use year start date.  This VIP benifit may very well survive if the past practice of generally placeing cancelled points into the use year that falls the furthest in the future.  I know with my PIC points, cancelled points go into this use year that exceeds the number of points received for that year through PIC.  This very well may turn out to primarily affect contracts that do not have a PIC contract associated with it.


----------



## lcml11

CO skier said:


> Where does it say that 2013 points will be received on 11/19/12?
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding of this is that the April to October 2013 allocations will not be made until 1/1/2014, and this is why, for example, 50k points is being awarded to a 100k contract – those are the points for 7/1/13 to 12/31/13.
> 
> The points awarded on 11/19/2012 do not appear to be a "bonus," just and "advance" of points that would normally be allocated in the second two quarters of 2013.
> 
> What is not clear is what will happen on 1/1/2013.  If the “New Contract” receives the full, combined allocation of points, then there is a 6-month “bonus,” but this would be an advance of the start date for the 7/1/2013 points, not a “delay” as indicated in the Wyndham letter.  As I reread the letter, it seems to indicate that effective 11/19/2012 a July 1, 2013 – June 30, 2014 use year is moving to a use year of 1/1/2014 to 12/31/2014.  If this is true, then on 1/1/2013, only points for a 1/1/2013 to 12/31/2013 use year will be awarded.



For the most part, I agree with the above analysis.  My guess is that Wyndham may have a bunch of developer points available.  Word on the street is that Wyndham is going to shortly announce more resorts that are going to be made available.  On line of thought on this that I have heard is that it is designed to get more people into the resorts that are owners so they can get them before sales staff.  I did not make this up.  Honest.

Another line of thought might be that it is a preventive move to pay in advance possable claims, at what appears to be full remedy, damages to an argument that could be made that in a certain quarter or so, available points were shorted that would otherwise be available.


----------



## lcml11

FreeIn2010 said:


> I remember those... And from what I remember you got them if you canceled a reservation less than 30 days and you could only use them for reservations within 30 days or less. I was happy to see that go away.



Did not necessarily total go away, although it did not affect me because of my multiple use years, I did not get a better discription of a comment that a last minute reservation at the end of the calander year could be extended for a maxium of 90 days if the reservation crossed into the next use year.  This may partially explain some of the unexplained placing of points into different use years when cancelled.


----------



## lcml11

karentrimmer said:


> I have not received this letter as of yet, however I have to wonder the following.  I have a total of 6 contracts 2 with Seawatch Plantation, 2 with Ocean Blvd, 1 with Westwinds, 1 with the Cottages.   Are they saying that they are going to combine the 2 Seawatch Plantation contracts into 1 contract with a use year and the 2 Ocean Blvd Contracts into a use year or are they trying to combine all 6 into a use year.  If they are trying to combine all 6 - how can they do that when my deeds are to the 4 different places?



No, like you I own at multiple Myrtle Beach locations within Wyndham. The rights and priveledges of owning at Seawatch Plantation, Westwinds, Ocean Blvd, etc.  pertaining to ARP are not changing.  The contracts are not being combined.  Just the use years.  The significance of this for ARP in Myrtle Beach is going to be a massive plus, I believe, because ARP points in what were formally different use years are now all rolled into one and should be all available for one reservation.  

In other words, most of my 1 million plus points could in theory be used for a couple of two or three Summer weeks.

If true, this will probably benift owners of a series of small contracts with different use years in Myrtle Beach to get Summer weeks that were not formally that easy to get.


----------



## lcml11

karentrimmer said:


> I have not received this letter as of yet, however I have to wonder the following.  I have a total of 6 contracts 2 with Seawatch Plantation, 2 with Ocean Blvd, 1 with Westwinds, 1 with the Cottages.   Are they saying that they are going to combine the 2 Seawatch Plantation contracts into 1 contract with a use year and the 2 Ocean Blvd Contracts into a use year or are they trying to combine all 6 into a use year.  If they are trying to combine all 6 - how can they do that when my deeds are to the 4 different places?



I to have not received a letter yet.  So far, only two people have reported getting the letter.  As a follow-up to someone elses post on possable contract issues involving use year dates, everyone may not get this letter.  It may go out as a function of the wording of the orginal contracts when the timeshare was sold overtime.  This will be very interesting to watch as it roles out.


----------



## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> After 3 calls to Wyndham and trying to sort out the contradictory answers I received from them, I finally reached Jennifer at the Presidential Reserve hotline who really knew what she was talking about. So let me try and recap those discussions for everyone and hopefully clear up a lot of the confusion in the thread discussions above.
> 
> First off, there are NO bonus points being handed out. The only points being dispersed are the points required to move a contract year end date in alignment with the latest year end date on any of your contracts. Let's keep it simple and assume you have one contract with a calendar year end date of 12/31 and you have another contract with 500,000 points and a 6/30 year end date. This second contract will be forced to align with the 12/31 year end date of the "latest" contract. So on or before 11/19, you will receive 50% of the value of that contract or 250,000 points with a year end date of 12/31/13 since your next allocation of 500,000 points will NOT occur until 1/1/14. You have already received the 500,000 points on 7/1/12 to last you thru 6/30/13 and the allocated 250,000 points makes up the difference from 6/30/13 to your next allocation on 1/1/14.
> 
> So the bottom line is that we are NOT receiving any "extra" or "bonus" points and there will be no mass march on reservation inventories in 2013. We are getting nothing additional to what we would have received in points if this change did not happen.
> 
> I hope I explained that so everyone could understand. If not, fire away with your questions and I will do my best to clarify what is coming down!!



An interesting addition to the growing number of interprations from Wyndham Staff on the issue.  I attended two HOA meetings.  Towers on the Grove yesterday and Seawatch Plantion (there are multiple HOAs under this catagory, this one was for Villas I, II, and III.  The resort managers at both locations did not know this was coming or a letter had gone out.  Owner Care said they were aware of the change and had gotten a e-mail a couple of days ago.  Nothing was discussed that was not consistent with the posted letter.


----------



## pacodemountainside

lcml11 said:


> For the most part, I agree with the above analysis.  My guess is that Wyndham may have a bunch of developer points available.  Word on the street is that Wyndham is going to shortly announce more resorts that are going to be made available.  On line of thought on this that I have heard is that it is designed to get more people into the resorts that are owners so they can get them before sales staff.  I did not make this up.  Honest.
> .



Yes, Wyndham is  actively WAAMing while Desert Blue  remains moth balled out in the desert. Took a cue from the Donald, put up you name and expertise  and let some one else  pay for the bricks, sticks and mortar!

Yes, they are pushing owner sales. As chart below shows  owners are much more profitable, kinda  captive victims and  credit worthy.


Wyndham's costs and profits!


Amount of Purchase.............$17K.................$22K

Description-----------------New Buyer.....Current Owner

Brick, Stick and Mortar...........20% .................20%

Selling..................................58....................32


Bad debts.............................16....................12

Profit.....................................6 ...................36

Source: Main Man at security analysts presentations and SEC 10K


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> If I already borrowed or credit pooled future use year points?
> 
> How does it affect ARP with only getting half of your yearly points early?
> 
> ARP will lose its value.  If you decide to cancel its possible you have only a few days to use the points where as it is now you can ARP new years decide to cancel and still have till 3/31/ 6/30 or 9/30 to make a new reservation.  I bought contracts based on this.  No sales gimmick or loophole.



I am not sure how ARP will work out system wide.  However, the impact on ARP that would be negative, if any, would be limited to 2013.


----------



## am1

lcml11 said:


> I am not sure how ARP will work out system wide.  However, the impact on ARP that would be negative, if any, would be limited to 2013.



I have MB that expires 3/31, AC 6/30 and Las Vegas that expires 9/30.  When they are all 12/31 my ARP will be affected.  Two I would not be able to cancel and the 3rd I would lose 3 months if I did decide to cancel.


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> I have MB that expires 3/31, AC 6/30 and Las Vegas that expires 9/30.  When they are all 12/31 my ARP will be affected.  Two I would not be able to cancel and the 3rd I would lose 3 months if I did decide to cancel.



I think in this example the following will emerge starting in 2014.

ARP Myrtle Beach    October 1 to September 30
ARP Atlantic City     October 1 to September 30
Las Vagas              October 1 to September 30

2013 I think will be:

ARP Myrtle Beach   October 1 to September 30 all points awarded under the contract
ARP  Atlantic City   October 1 to September 30 all points awarded under the contract
ARP Las Vagas       October 1 to September 30 all points awarded under the contract

Assuming each contract is 100,000 points to keep the math simple.  

Myrtle Beach 50,000 points for 2013 for lack of a better term, Bonus Points
Atlantic City  25,000 points for 2013 for lack of a better term, Bonus Points
Las Vegas     0 points

Total Bonus on the account would be 75,000 for use in 2013.  If this line of thought is accurate, it would behove one to book immediately upon receipt of the Bonus points to ensure that you receive a reservation and do not get locked out with the massive influx of points into 2013.  This is based on the assumtion that the bonus points have to be used in 2013.  VIP Eligable points bought from the developer tend to have a two year use window.  I would not assume this would not be the case until Wyndham releases something more offical.

I do not use ARP, therefore, I am not sure what effect of the timeing of the use year start date has on it.  If I count right, use year points availablity begins October 1, 2013.  13 months later would be November 2014.  Therefore, to effective get the ARP, I would think points from an earlier use year would be needed to be used to get a ARP reservation at Myrtle Beach in the summer or in the alternative, skipping over some 2013 or earlier points to use 2014 points.  I am assuming you do not want ARP in Las Vegas in the summer, so you should be good to go for a fall or winter 13 month booking.  Atlantic City would tend to have the same problem as Myrtle Beach.  

Here is an example of how far my bonus points could go to bad I do not live in New York or Vermont.  Might want to miss out on some snow.  I am calculating my bonus points at 85,750 points.

Resort:
Wyndham SeaWatch Plantation
Unit type:
2 Bedroom Deluxe
Check-In date:
12/31/2012
Length of stay:
4 nights 

Total points required:
16,000 


Resort:
Wyndham SeaWatch Plantation
Unit type:
3 Bedroom Deluxe
Check-In date:
01/04/2013
Length of stay:
7 nights 

Total points required:  
56,000

This leaves 13,750 points left over.

Can add on to the above when January 11, 2013 comes into the discount window.

Did I hear someone say watch out for the snowbirds?


----------



## Sandi Bo

*Reason for the use year we have*

We have an Apr 1 - Mar 31 use year at Ocean Walk specifically to be able to ARP for bike week in March.  I won't be happy if they move the use year on our Ocean Walk contract.

I, too, have heard Jeff Lewis's pitch on multiple use years. He told us that he spent 4 hours with Wyndham's legal team and they could not punch holes in how the system works with the multiple use years.  What happened?  We just need Jeff to join our class action suit, he already has the defense prepared. 

I have enjoyed being able to roll points forward, if I can't do it anymore, I will deal with it.  Wyndham is still fairly new to me (< 2 years of managing our account). I am disapointed in the lack of communication / method of rolling out new practices.  A little more warning would have allowed us to plan (I know I would have managed my points differently had I known this was coming).


----------



## CO skier

am1 said:


> ARP will lose its value.  If you decide to cancel its possible you have only a few days to use the points where as it is now you can ARP new years decide to cancel and still have till 3/31/ 6/30 or 9/30 to make a new reservation.  I bought contracts based on this.  No sales gimmick or loophole.



This is exactly why I changed my use years to 9/30 about 6 months ago.  If Christmas did not work out, we could then use the points for Spring Break or Summer seasons.  If this is important to you, you could call immediately and request that all your use years be changed to 9/30 (or whichever end use date works best; you might have to miss out on the planned special points allotment).  When I did this, the change was immediate, over the phone, and no costs were involved.

The other option might be to take the special points allotment, then when things have settled down in a year or so, ask for the change to a 9/30 use year.  My understanding is that every owner has one opportunity to change their use year.


----------



## massvacationer

At first yesterday, I was upset when I found-out about this change  here on TUG.

I have three use years:  3/31, 6/30 and 12/31.  

Does this mean that they will change all of mine to 12/31, as this is the latest-ending use year?

If so, it might be better for me, as I mostly use my points for ski reservations.  Having more time to use any points that I don't use for ski reservations would be a good thing.

I have used the roll-from-one-use-year-to-another feature a couple of times. And, I will miss having the ability to do this to save points from expiring.

As posted above, I wonder if one can select the common-use-year that one is assigned to - or does an owner have to be assigned to the latest-ending use year?


----------



## lcml11

massvacationer said:


> At first yesterday, I was upset when I found-out about this change  here on TUG.
> 
> I have three use years:  3/31, 6/30 and 12/31.
> 
> Does this mean that they will change all of mine to 12/31, as this is the latest-ending use year?
> 
> If so, it might be better for me, as I mostly use my points for ski reservations.  Having more time to use any points that I don't use for ski reservations would be a good thing.
> 
> I have used the roll-from-one-use-year-to-another feature a couple of times. And, I will miss having the ability to do this to save points from expiring.
> 
> As posted above, I wonder if one can select the common-use-year that one is assigned to - or does an owner have to be assigned to the latest-ending use year?



Owener Care advised that the use year they pick for someone cannot ever be changed under the new system.

Regarding an earlier question concerning converted week use years.  They say that under the old system, all converted weeks contracts were January 1 start date for the use year and under the new system, this date cannot be changed for the converted weeks contracts.

Portions or all of this information was provided by Will and Andrew of Owner Care.  P.S.  When you call the number on the e-mail message pertaining to the changes, it is Owner Care, in my case, 1st call Will, 2nd call Andrew.

Will refers you over to the Learning Center for questions on this program.  Here is what is currently showing under the "My Use Year" section:

"There are four (4) Use Years in the CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus program based on calendar quarters.
Your Use Year is assigned based on the type of ownership, existing ownerships and if a new owner, the date you purchased.
Any points not used during this 12-month period will expire the last day of your Use Year, your Use Year End Date."

Here is what the cancelled point description is now in the Learning Center;

"Should you find that you need to cancel your reservation the following guidelines apply:

If your reservation is cancelled 15 days or more prior to the check-in date, the points used for the reservation will be returned as Cancelled Reservation Points.  Please understand that if you cancel your reservation less than 15 days prior to the check-in date, the points used for your reservation will be forfeited.  We are glad to offer a Same Day Grace Period when you are booking last-minute reservations and are already within 15 days of your check-in. The Same Day Grace Period allows you to make a reservation less than 15 days before check-in and, if needed, cancel it in the same business day. You will receive your points back as Cancelled Reservation Points instead of forfeiting them.  We are confident these guidelines will increase your opportunities for reserving accommodations when making short-term travel plans.

How does this work?
You may cancel your resort reservations online or by calling Vacation Planning. If you cancel in accordance with the above policy, your points will be returned to your account as Cancelled Reservation Points."

"Cancelled Reservation Points may be used for all program features with the exception of Priority Reservations, Points Credit Pool, Converting Points to Maintenance Dollars or Wyndham Rewards® Conversion Program.  Cancelled Reservation Points are used after Regular Use Year Points with the same expiration date.  When a reservation is cancelled, the Cancelled Reservation Points are returned to your account in the Use Year of the reservation."


----------



## Sandi Bo

*Notification Process*

I am curious about the notification process.  I have multiple years and have not been notified (by email or snail mail).  For those who have been notified, when were you and how?  I don't see anything in my email.

I can deal with this, but I sure would like to have some input to where my use year ends up.  As I said earlier, there is a reason most of our points have a use year ending March 31.

Most of our contracts are UDI, one is a converted weeks.  I wonder if that will affect this or if they all get moved.  The UDI's have one use year, the converted another (none are 12/31).


----------



## vacationhopeful

Sandi Bo said:


> I am curious about the notification process.  I have multiple years and have not been notified (by email or snail mail).  For those who have been notified, when were you and how?  I don't see anything in my email.
> 
> I can deal with this, but I sure would like to have some input to where my use year ends up.  As I said earlier, there is a reason most of our points have a use year ending March 31.
> 
> Most of our contracts are UDI, one is a converted weeks.  I wonder if that will affect this or if they all get moved.  The UDI's have one use year, the converted another (none are 12/31).



Sandy,
Neither have I had any notification on my ownership. I have 3 use years ... for my various reservations periods.
I would be VERY unhappy --- and I will be in South Florida for Nov 19th --- if my account gets zapped w/o notifications.

Even if I get notified on Tues (next snail mail day) - less than 1 week before enactment? What a crock!

Is this even on the Wyndham website?


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> I am curious about the notification process.  I have multiple years and have not been notified (by email or snail mail).  For those who have been notified, when were you and how?  I don't see anything in my email.
> 
> I can deal with this, but I sure would like to have some input to where my use year ends up.  As I said earlier, there is a reason most of our points have a use year ending March 31.
> 
> Most of our contracts are UDI, one is a converted weeks.  I wonder if that will affect this or if they all get moved.  The UDI's have one use year, the converted another (none are 12/31).



Like you, I have received no notifications on this via E-Mail or letter.  When I talked with Owner Care via the number on the E-Mail earlier today, the E-Mail that was posted indicated it was a Monday to Friday number, however, it was answered by Owner Care, they checked my account for impact on it.  It apparently has been reviewed already and he discussed the impact on me, specifically.  Give Owner Care a call, or you may have everything hit on November 19, 2013 without any offical warning.  It then may then be to late to make any changes to your current pending reservations and to make adjustments to where you want the points to show up.

If what Owner Care advised me earlier today is true, your converted week contract that he defines will be the January 1st start date will probably control and your new use year date for all contracts will be January 1st.

For what it is worth, the message that I was getting while waiting for a reservations rep on a last minute addition to December scheduled reservations is now pushing depositing the points into RCI.  

In the initial round of implementation, it appears one of the major objectives is to boost RCI deposits.  There is no doubt to me, that this is because they expect availabiliy for the rest of 2012 and 2013 to be a real problem.  If true, my complements to Wyndham Worldwide, they should make a mint on additional RCI fees.  VIP Members would be hit twice under this path.  They do not get the VIP point discounts and they get the honor of paying the RCI fees for use of the points transfered to RCI.

Therefore, I believe it is essiential for VIP members in a use or loss situation in 2013 to be booking ASAP to avoid getting squezed out on  the availability of Wyndham reservations.

When the day is done, for 2013, Ron may have the right idea for the wrong reason, borrow the heck out of future points to the extent they will let you.   If I followed that discussion, 2013 and 2014 points are currently in play and 2015 points are in play or will be on January 1.  This trick should insure you get the high demand weeks in 2013.  Especially when you through the bonus points in the mix.


----------



## SOS8260456

lcml11 said:


> Regarding an earlier question concerning PIC use years.  They say that under the old system, all PIC contracts were January 1 start date for the use year and under the new system, this date cannot be changed for the PIC contracts.



Our Pic points are always one year from the date the PIC points hit our account.  We have 10 months from the check in date of our interval to decide to PIC it and then per the directory pg 299 (yes, I pulled it out and read it), we have one year from the date the points HIT our account, which is usually several weeks later.  This is based on the exact date and not rounded to the nearest month end.  So we have seen some pretty weird use year's in our account.  In one of our cases, the week is a December Ski week, we usually PIC it in Feb, the point are usually in our acct by early March.   We have one PIC unit that is a floating 1-52.  So I suppose, if we wanted to, we can finagle a different use year based on that.  But I think in the end, Wyndham is going to align this similiar to point pooling where the cancelled points end up in the earliest years.

I do see people's arguements and reasons for having the various use years.  I think that if you win the battle, what will happen is that instead of the cancelled points rolling forward, they will roll back into the earliest use year.

I think that instead of just changing everyone's use year automatically to calendar year, they should have allowed each account owner to select their preferred use year and then move the other contracts accordingly.  This would have been more owner friendly.


----------



## vacationhopeful

So next weekend (or earlier) we all should PRINT OUT our points allocations and out use year ownerships records and don't forget==> ALL our reservations (with reservation numbers) etc.

What a bloody mess! I have ARP reservations up and thru Oct 2013! I used my ARP for those and now I am going to get another set of 3/4 of my 2013 point allocations for that contract, to use in 2013? With no ARP?

And Wyndham will most likely benefit by the increase number of Guest Certificates used! 

And Mega-Renters will be driving down the cost of nonARP reservations due to their bucket just brimming over with MORE points.

I see a large deposit into the credit pool soon in my future ---


----------



## lcml11

Sorry, I meant converted weeks and not PIC weeks, will correct.  Your analysis on the PIC points, I think is correct for the time being.  Apparantly the VIP members that used the PIC program will continue to have the VIP benifit of basically picking a month for a special use year.  This benifit, I think, will be of increasing value as things progress, unless they take that away to.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> Sandy,
> Neither have I had any notification on my ownership. I have 3 use years ... for my various reservations periods.
> I would be VERY unhappy --- and I will be in South Florida for Nov 19th --- if my account gets zapped w/o notifications.
> 
> Even if I get notified on Tues (next snail mail day) - less than 1 week before enactment? What a crock!
> 
> Is this even on the Wyndham website?



Other than what I posted above, I could find nothing discussing these issues on the Web Site.

By the way, I believe you are absolutly right, I just finished the analysis on my account and have all but finished the adjustments I think I need to make.  In my case, the only adjustment that I think needed to be made is what I have been doing for a better part of this year, that is making sure I use all the cancelled points that I can that occur prior to January 1st.  The pre-actions for 2013 would vary depending on each person's account.

Owners Care - Andrew, was grumbling something about taking points away from people if they were rolled forward.  I cannot use cancelled points in 2012 very easily for my 2013 cancelled points.  I would of thought Wyndham would of showed some mercy during the transition period, but apparently not.


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> I am not sure how ARP will work out system wide.  However, the impact on ARP that would be negative, if any, would be limited to 2013.



While the points are going to be associated with each contract and will have the ARP assoicated with said contract, a Nov 19 rollout would only allow ARP to be used after Dec 19, 2013 and the 29 days before that.

So, get your phone out and ARP either Thanksgiving 2013 dates or Christmas 2013 dates for the early points you will get for those contracts. And remember Dec 31, 2013 *those* unused points expire --- was told I can't deposit them into credit pool.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> While the points are going to be associated with each contract and will have the ARP assoicated with said contract, a Nov 19 rollout would only allow ARP to be used after Dec 19, 2013 and the 29 days before that.
> 
> So, get your phone out and ARP either Thanksgiving 2013 dates or Christmas 2013 dates for the early points you will get for those contracts. And remember Dec 31, 2013 *those* unused points expire --- was told I can't deposit them into credit pool.



Not inconsistant with what Andrew from Owners Care was telling me.  I have not used a ARP reservation, however, in days gone by, Reservations told me that my Myrtle Beach properties could be combined across contracts for my Myrtle Beach contracts if the use year dates matched, with some slight variations over a couple of different calls with diffent people.

Andrew advises that the Myrtle Beach contracts now cannot be combined  across contracts at Myrtle Beach.  Back to back reservations can be made during the ARP period from the different contracts.  He said that the RARP points can be combined across contracts.  Since Myrtle Beach is a special criter as it relates to ARP, I do not know if what he was saying applys to other resorts.


----------



## vacationhopeful

lcml11 said:


> ....Andrew advises that the Myrtle Beach contracts now cannot be combined  across contracts at Myrtle Beach.  Back to back reservations can be made during the ARP period from the different contracts.  He said that the RARP points can be combined across contracts.  Since Myrtle Beach is a special criter as it relates to ARP, I do not know if what he was saying applys to other resorts.



Oh, that would make a lot of Ocean Blvd owners unhappy and Seawatch owners happy as all getout. Cost more points to stay at Ocean Blvd and volume-wise, Seawatch owners have difficulty getting reservations at their own resort during the summer at the 13 month mark.


----------



## jhoug

*Nothing Free/No more points in system*

I just got the email yesterday and I don't think anyone gets this/what they are actually doing. 
" We are pleased to inform you of an upcoming change to your CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus membership that will simplify your usage in the future and allow us to better serve you."

There is nothing free, and there are no extra points being added to the system, it is just a shift in when you are able to use them.  Thereby limiting our usage NOT, "simplifying" our usage nor  "better serving me".


"We recognize that moving your Use Year End date to a later quarter also results in a delay of the start date of these points. So, we have been authorized to award you a one-time additional allocation of Points for you to use at no cost to you! The amount of points you will be awarded for each contract is based upon how many quarters we move your Use Year. If it is moved one quarter later, you will receive an additional allocation of 25% of your annual points; If it is moved two quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 50% of your annual points; and if it is moved three quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 75% of your annual points."

Aren't they still going to be charging me the same monthly maintanance fees without skipping a beat? 

I have a couple of small EOY Jan 1-Dec 31 contracts. 
BUT most of my points are July 1-June 30.
That means they are shifting all my points to Jan 1-Dec 31. 

  I have already used all of July 2012-June 2013, except some that are now cancelled points. 
And have borrowed some from July 2013-June 2014.  
  So what I have left for that year July 2013-June 2014 is about 90%. 
Let's round to 100, 000 points, I have 90,000 left.  They move those forward so I can't use them until Jan 2014.  But all I will still have is 90, 000.  They "let me" use "free of cost"  50% "bonus", 50,000 of them starting Jan 2013 --well then isn't that just shifting all the points I already had or used into different use years. 
 Then come Jan 2013--they deposit my next July points (which would have been July 2014)  to Jan 2015 etc. 

Just stinks all over.


----------



## jhoug

*Sandy VDH already said it in a different way*



Sandy VDH said:


> I don't really see the points being given out as adjustments as bonus points.  But rather prorating you assignment of points over the length of time they are adjusting your use year.  If they change your use year and move it back 6 months, you are basically getting 18 months use, so therefore 150% of your annual allotment.  They call it a bonus, but what's in a name.  Bonus should better, but you are not getting anything more or less then you were contractually obligated to.  If you took your annual years points and figured out what you earn a quarter they are just allocating that per quarter over the extension of your use year to get to the same calendar end date.  Not really a bonus in my eyes.
> 
> JMHO



I guess some people did interpret this the same way I did.  Just said it differently. Just hate that Wyndham acts like they are doing something for you and "at no cost to you".


----------



## timeos2

pacodemountainside said:


> Yes, Wyndham is  actively WAAMing while Desert Blue  remains moth balled out in the desert. Took a cue from the Donald, put up you name and expertise  and let some one else  pay for the bricks, sticks and mortar!



Desert Blue was one of the worst locations ever picked for any timeshare. They had better give thanks everyday that the economy kept them from building what would have been a disaster.  It isn't even a reasonable industrial area and never would have been a desirable timeshare.


----------



## lcml11

*My Notice of Use Year Change - E-Mail*

November 9, 2012

Name and address deleted
RE: Your Use Year 
Account Number Deleted

Dear Valued Club Wyndham Owner: 

We are pleased to inform you of an upcoming change to your CLUB WYNDHAM®; Plus membership that will simplify your usage in the future and allow us to better serve you.

As you may know, all contracts in the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program have one of four "Use Years": January 1 to December 31; April 1 to March 31 of the following year; July 1 to June 30 of the following year, or October 1 to September 30 of the following year.

We have identified your membership as having at least two contracts with different Use Years. This means that you currently have points beginning and ending multiple times throughout the year. In an effort to improve your membership experience, we have begun the process of consolidating all your contracts so that they have the same Use Year End Date, 12/31.

Please note that your contract with the latest Use Year End Date will be unchanged. However, any contract(s) that does not have the same Use Year as the one with the latest End Date will be changed to that date. This change will be effective as of November 19, 2012.

We recognize that moving your Use Year End date to a later quarter also results in a delay of the start date of these points. So, we have been authorized to award you a one-time additional allocation of Points for you to use at no cost to you! The amount of points you will be awarded for each contract is based upon how many quarters we move your Use Year. If it is moved one quarter later, you will receive an additional allocation of 25% of your annual points; If it is moved two quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 50% of your annual points; and if it is moved three quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 75% of your annual points.

Example deleted, it does not appear to track to my account.

This change does not impact points deposited with RCI, II or the Points Credit Pool, as well as Bonus Points, PIC Points and Cancelled Reservation Points.

Again, this change is effective as of November 19, 2012. After this date, please feel free to check your account status online at clubwyndham.com to confirm the Use Year changes and the award of the additional Point allocations. 

If you have any questions related to this matter, we have established a dedicated toll-free phone number, 855-800-6749. This number will be operational Monday through Friday 8am to 8pm EST through the end of the year. We look forward to assisting you with all of your vacation needs and appreciate the opportunity to be of service. 

Sincerely,

CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus

cc: file

8427 South Park Circle, Ste. 500, Orlando, FL 32819

Just got off the phone with Owner Care.  They confirmed my additional points will be 85,750.  When they show up on the points screen on November 19, 2012, it will be called Adjustment Points or Compensation Points or something that shows they are different from the other points.


----------



## massvacationer

vacationhopeful said:


> Sandy,
> Neither have I had any notification on my ownership. I have 3 use years ... for my various reservations periods.
> I would be VERY unhappy --- and I will be in South Florida for Nov 19th --- if my account gets zapped w/o notifications.
> 
> Even if I get notified on Tues (next snail mail day) - less than 1 week before enactment? What a crock!
> 
> Is this even on the Wyndham website?



I, too,  have not received any type of notification.  I own three different use years.   I wonder whether they are notifying some of the VIP members first?     I'm just a resale owner.


----------



## lcml11

massvacationer said:


> I, too,  have not received any type of notification.  I own three different use years.   I wonder whether they are notifying some of the VIP members first?     I'm just a resale owner.



The thought occurred to me when the first report of the change came a couple of days ago and I was among the number.  Mine came in  today, not long ago, via E-Mail.  I wonder if there is some sort of pecking order, I am VIP Platium but not part of the VIP test on the roll-out, if there was one.

VIP Peek rollout 1st place, 2nd place VIP, third place all others?


----------



## capital city

Doesn't Wyndham charge Jan- Dec regardless of use year? So if your July 1- June 30 on one contract and it gets moved to Jan- Dec and they only give you half your points then are they not really screwing you out of half your points?


----------



## vacationhopeful

capital city said:


> Doesn't Wyndham charge Jan- Dec regardless of use year? So if your July 1- June 30 on one contract and it gets moved to Jan- Dec and they only give you half your points then are they not really screwing you out of half your points?



Yes, and to imply that they are Bonus Points is horse crap.

What I whined to "Will" about was, I paid for these MFs, WHY can't I deposit them into the Points Credit Pool?


----------



## Sandi Bo

*Still no email*

I hate to call, is it possible that if we haven't heard they aren't messing with our account (yet)?  I know that is wishful thinking.  

Kind of like avoid an owner update and thus avoid an audit of your account (see Linda, I listen ).

Only bad things can happen when Wyndham starts poking around in your account.  I don't have anything to hide, just don't need the hassle.

If this is to be, I'd certainly like to salvage the use year of my choice.

I know I am naive, but I just can't believe the way that Wyndham does business. This will be my first experience at getting screwed over by Wyndham. 

Besides terrible communication and unacceptable concern for customers, it also concerns me that they don't seem to think things through. If they want to align all the use years, they should be trying to space things out, so you have equal numbers of customers (well points, not customers) for each use year. They should evaluate the first year affect of creating a glut of points and work to remove the issues that will cause. And they should be asking us what we want (what use year do we prefer -- esp if we own 1.4M on a given use year -- don't we have some right to that)?

Nor do they seem to execute things well. Their systems are fraught with errors.  Most definitely I will be taking screen shots and double checking point balances. 

My husbands words today 'This is why I don't want this stuff in your name' (our ownership is currently in my Dad's trust).


----------



## jebloomquist

rickandcindy23 said:


> Dear Valued Club Wyndham Owner:
> 
> We are pleased to inform you of an upcoming change .....
> 
> We recognize that moving your Use Year End date to a later quarter also results in a delay of the start date of these points. So, we have been authorized to award you a one-time additional allocation of Points for you to use at no cost to you! The amount of points you will be awarded for each contract is based upon how many quarters we move your Use Year. If it is moved one quarter later, you will receive an additional allocation of 25% of your annual points; If it is moved two quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 50% of your annual points; and if it is moved three quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 75% of your annual points.



If CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus has actually been "authorized to award you a one-time additional allocation of Points for you to use at no cost" then you, the owner's maintenance fee should stop for the time between the original Use Year End date and the new Use Year End date.

Why do I think that this will not happen? Oh yes, it's Wyndham.

Jim


----------



## Twinkstarr

massvacationer said:


> I, too,  have not received any type of notification.  I own three different use years.   I wonder whether they are notifying some of the VIP members first?     I'm just a resale owner.



I too have not received any sort of information yet, my EY contract is 7/1-6/30 and I have an EOY even which is Jan-Dec.

If this goes down, what can we do with the "bonus" points? Will we be able to point pool them or just deposit into RCI? 

I already have next year pretty much set with vacations, so bonus points that have to be used next year are pretty useless too me. Was planning on point pooling my 7/1/13 allocation.


----------



## regatta333

Well, I just checked my account online.  The use year of my one contract that is Oct-Sept just got realigned and I got 1/4 of the point value added to my 2013 points.  I was not even given the courtesy of an email explaining what was happening.  If not for belonging to TUG, I would be clueless.

They keep saying customer sat and your vacation experience is their top priority, but their actions are at complete odds with this.  How they can implement something like this without alerting people is beyond me.


----------



## massvacationer

bnoble said:


> I suspect this is a consequence of the Voyager roll-out.  I understand the OP's frustration about this "feature" being removed, but it really hasn't ever been something that I would call "guaranteed" in the directory---the problem has always been that the directory's assumption that every owner has a single Use Year; several things were open to interpretation when UYs overlap.  This "problem" now goes away.
> 
> There may well have been some sales staff that touted the "feature" to get people to buy, but like anything else the sales staff touts, well...YMMV.



Bnoble is likely correct that systems reasons are driving this change.   Voyager probably can't handle multiple use-years.     I have noticed that the system now doesn't work well with multiple use-years, when I try to borrow points.


----------



## lcml11

regatta333 said:


> Well, I just checked my account online.  The use year of my one contract that is Oct-Sept just got realigned and I got 1/4 of the point value added to my 2013 points.  I was not even given the courtesy of an email explaining what was happening.  If not for belonging to TUG, I would be clueless.
> 
> They keep saying customer sat and your vacation experience is their top priority, but their actions are at complete odds with this.  How they can implement something like this without alerting people is beyond me.



I got the E-Mail yesterday calling for November 19, 2012 as the implentation date.  After I saw your post, I re-checked my ownership summary this morning and my September 30 use years are still there.  

If anyone wants to make changes to there regular point use years (subject to the change) to the cancelled point use years (not regulated by the reported changes) they need to do ASAP since the conversion appears to be starting to roll out ahead of the reported date.

The significance of the cancelled points is that under the old system, cancelled points could show up in both the next use year and the one that follows it for people with multiple use years.  

Wish everyone well through the conversion.

For the poster that broke the news, what name did they use for you additional points on the screan?


----------



## lcml11

Twinkstarr said:


> I too have not received any sort of information yet, my EY contract is 7/1-6/30 and I have an EOY even which is Jan-Dec.
> 
> If this goes down, what can we do with the "bonus" points? Will we be able to point pool them or just deposit into RCI?
> 
> I already have next year pretty much set with vacations, so bonus points that have to be used next year are pretty useless too me. Was planning on point pooling my 7/1/13 allocation.



If you were going to do that do it before the change catches up with you.  Pooled points are not being covered by the change at this point in time.


----------



## regatta333

lcml11 said:


> What name did they use for you additional points on the screan?



They are not separated.  All of my 2013 points are now just glommed together as regular points expiring Dec 2013.


----------



## Twinkstarr

regatta333 said:


> Well, I just checked my account online.  The use year of my one contract that is Oct-Sept just got realigned and I got 1/4 of the point value added to my 2013 points.  I was not even given the courtesy of an email explaining what was happening.  If not for belonging to TUG, I would be clueless.
> 
> They keep saying customer sat and your vacation experience is their top priority, but their actions are at complete odds with this.  How they can implement something like this without alerting people is beyond me.



Seeing your post Regatta, I decided to check my account. Nothing yet, still have my July UY with my Alexandria contract.


----------



## rcollinsny

vacationhopeful said:


> So next weekend (or earlier) we all should PRINT OUT our points allocations and out use year ownerships records and don't forget==> ALL our reservations (with reservation numbers) etc.
> 
> What a bloody mess! I have ARP reservations up and thru Oct 2013! I used my ARP for those and now I am going to get another set of 3/4 of my 2013 point allocations for that contract, to use in 2013? With no ARP?
> 
> And Wyndham will most likely benefit by the increase number of Guest Certificates used!
> 
> And Mega-Renters will be driving down the cost of nonARP reservations due to their bucket just brimming over with MORE points.
> 
> I see a large deposit into the credit pool soon in my future ---



I have been printing and checking my points totals on a daily basis for a long time. With 19 contracts I have had "mysterious, unexplained" changes in my point totals. By printing everyday I can call Wyndham and get those "unfortunate mishaps" corrected. (as it was called by one of the Wyndham reps)


----------



## lcml11

regatta333 said:


> They are not separated.  All of my 2013 points are now just glommed together as regular points expiring Dec 2013.



Thanks for the info.


----------



## rcollinsny

lcml11 said:


> "Cancelled Reservation Points may be used for all program features with the exception of Priority Reservations, Points Credit Pool, Converting Points to Maintenance Dollars or Wyndham Rewards® Conversion Program.  Cancelled Reservation Points are used after Regular Use Year Points with the same expiration date.  When a reservation is cancelled, the Cancelled Reservation Points are returned to your account in the Use Year of the reservation."



The major issue with the policy above is that now Wyndham is forcing Cancel points to be used in the year they are canceled. HOWEVER, they will always use your Regular points first when booking online so you have to use all of your Regular points before you can use your Cancel points. That really sucks.

This will force everyone to call Customer Care to book their reservations so they can instruct the agent to use their Cancel points for the booking. I already do that which really defeats Wyndham's efforts to get everyone to use the online system in order to cut down on their call volumes.

I agree with one of the other Tuggers in that it really looks like Wyndham is trying to force more points into the RCI system to pump up the fees. I really dislike RCI resorts for the most part, my wife and I have been spoiled by the better accommodations of the Wyndham resorts.


----------



## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> The major issue with the policy above is that now Wyndham is forcing Cancel points to be used in the year they are canceled. HOWEVER, they will always use your Regular points first when booking online so you have to use all of your Regular points before you can use your Cancel points. That really sucks.
> 
> This will force everyone to call Customer Care to book their reservations so they can instruct the agent to use their Cancel points for the booking. I already do that which really defeats Wyndham's efforts to get everyone to use the online system in order to cut down on their call volumes.
> 
> I agree with one of the other Tuggers in that it really looks like Wyndham is trying to force more points into the RCI system to pump up the fees. I really dislike RCI resorts for the most part, my wife and I have been spoiled by the better accommodations of the Wyndham resorts.



A couple of reps have confirmed that the ability to chose between cancelled and regular use year points when booking on line when Voyager goes into effect. Another one suggested that the options would also include the Credit Pool.  Some others indicte they do not know but it is probably true.

It remains to be seen if cancelled points need to be used in the year they show up in, or if they can be used in the future use years if the reservation is made in the current use year.  This is one of the features that tends to work but is not consistant under the system.  The on-line system is where this has been occurring for me.


----------



## rcollinsny

*Check your point allocations on Monday!!*

I had noticed some time ago that Wyndham does not post point changes from Saturday reservation activity until Monday and was told this is because of their weekly maintenance cycle.

So my guess is that we will see a mass change of fiscal years in Monday's point allocations. Since Wyndham always takes the points system down on Saturday night Sunday for weekly maintenance, it is a perfect time for them to apply mass changes to the system. 

So if you want to be ahead of the action, I suggest you print your points totals out today and track it from day to day until the change hits you.


----------



## vacationhopeful

I have a bunch of cancelled points which were supposed to die on Sept 30, 2013. Being a very cautious person, I decide I better make some Spring 2013 reservations with those cancelled points -- to move them into 2013 calendar USE year. Spent better part of an hour doing that.

So my 2012 point count is down to 0 --- with 535 points left in 2013. Until, I get my ratio point allocation on or before 11/19/12 modifications.


----------



## Sandi Bo

You can check your point allocation on the RCI Exchanges site.  When you select "Request RCI Deposit" it shows your points by use year allocation at the bottom).  That number should be current. 

The numbers on the Point Status page can't be trusted.  At best they are your beginning of day balance. And quite frequently (esp. on Saturday nights) they do not get updated.  

I just had an interesting conversation with Wyndham.  I have not gotten any notification yet, but I did call the 855-800-6749 number.    Not much to add, other than originally she said I could pick my use year (I have 2 use years - March 31 and Sep 30).  But when I asked if UDI's were being treated differently than FIXED WEEK's, everything changed.  After holding, for quite some time, she informed me that all FIXED WEEK contracts would be converted to use year 12/31 thus all my contracts would have a 12/31 use year.

If you don't have any fixed week contracts, I think you have some control over what your use year will be.  Until the twist on fixed weeks came into play, she said by default the March contracts would move to the Sept use year, and I would receive the points adjustments.  If I wanted to move the Sept contract to March, I would not receive the points adjustments.  In my case, I could live with that.  But then we got into the fixed week discussion and everything went south.

She can not point me to any documention about fixed week's needing to be 12/31, only that it is policy. 

As far as the use year, she first directed me to pages 332 and 333 in the directory.  When I pointed out that it says nothing about the use year, she then directed me to Second Amended and Restated FairShare Vacation Plan Use Management Trust (in the Online Learning Center) - section 11.02 (page 13).  I believe others have noted this above.

But she assured me this has been well thought out, is not being driven by troubles with their computer system (not being able to program as needed), and that it will be good for all in the end. :hysterical:

Oh, and they are in the process of contacting all of us. She suggested maybe my email bounced (all my other emails from them are coming through just fine).


----------



## Sandi Bo

vacationhopeful said:


> I have a bunch of cancelled points which were supposed to die on Sept 30, 2013. Being a very cautious person, I decide I better make some Spring 2013 reservations with those cancelled points -- to move them into 2013 calendar USE year. Spent better part of an hour doing that.
> 
> So my 2012 point count is down to 0 --- with 535 points left in 2013. Until, I get my ratio point allocation on or before 11/19/12 modifications.



Yeah, this stinks.


----------



## ronparise

Sandi Bo said:


> You can check your point allocation on the RCI Exchanges site.  When you select "Request RCI Deposit" it shows your points by use year allocation at the bottom).  That number should be current.
> 
> The numbers on the Point Status page can't be trusted.  At best they are your beginning of day balance. And quite frequently (esp. on Saturday nights) they do not get updated.
> 
> I just had an interesting conversation with Wyndham.  I have not gotten any notification yet, but I did call the 855-800-6749 number.    Not much to add, other than originally she said I could pick my use year (I have 2 use years - March 31 and Sep 30).  But when I asked if UDI's were being treated differently than FIXED WEEK's, everything changed.  After holding, for quite some time, she informed me that all FIXED WEEK contracts would be converted to use year 12/31 thus all my contracts would have a 12/31 use year.
> 
> If you don't have any fixed week contracts, I think you have some control over what your use year will be.  Until the twist on fixed weeks came into play, she said by default the March contracts would move to the Sept use year, and I would receive the points adjustments.  If I wanted to move the Sept contract to March, I would not receive the points adjustments.  In my case, I could live with that.  But then we got into the fixed week discussion and everything went south.
> 
> She can not point me to any documention about fixed week's needing to be 12/31, only that it is policy.
> 
> As far as the use year, she first directed me to pages 332 and 333 in the directory.  When I pointed out that it says nothing about the use year, she then directed me to Second Amended and Restated FairShare Vacation Plan Use Management Trust (in the Online Learning Center) - section 11.02 (page 13).  I believe others have noted this above.
> 
> But she assured me this has been well thought out, is not being driven by troubles with their computer system (not being able to program as needed), and that it will be good for all in the end. :hysterical:
> 
> Oh, and they are in the process of contacting all of us. She suggested maybe my email bounced (all my other emails from them are coming through just fine).



The converted fixed week stuff hasnt changed, they are all  a Jan use year


----------



## Sandi Bo

ronparise said:


> The converted fixed week stuff hasnt changed, they are all  a Jan use year



I have a fixed week contract with a September 30 use year.  Wyndham said that is a mistake and they will fix it with this change (maybe).  It just doesn't seem right to me that I bought (resale if it matters) a contract with a September 30 use year and they are now deciding to fix it.   When I asked where that is documented (that it should be Dec 31) she couldn't find anything and reverted to "it's policy".


----------



## rcollinsny

*Confusion Abounds!!*

I hope I am not being too repetitive here but there is still a lot of confusion about the "bonus" points and 2013 activity. And why is that, because the folks at Wyndham Customer Care are the core of the confusion. They are the ones handing out BAD information. 

Let me repeat one more time what I and other Tuggers have stated in previous posts.
       1. NO ONE is going to receive any BONUS points!! You are only going to receive the points you would have received anyway if your use years were not converted.
       2. NO mass of points will be coming in 2013!! You have already received your allocated points for your fiscal year contracts that end in 2013. You will only receive enough points to take you to the new adjusted fiscal year end in 2013 which will be later than it is now. 
       3. The next normal allocation of points does NOT occur until the start of your fiscal year in 2014!! You do not get your adjustment points now and another normal allocation at the start of your fiscal year in 2013!!
       4. The "adjustment" points you will receive on or before 11/19 will have your new fiscal year end date in 2013. YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO USE THOSE POINTS BEFORE THE END OF 2012.

I only hope I have not added to the confusion!!


----------



## rcollinsny

vacationhopeful said:


> I have a bunch of cancelled points which were supposed to die on Sept 30, 2013. Being a very cautious person, I decide I better make some Spring 2013 reservations with those cancelled points -- to move them into 2013 calendar USE year. Spent better part of an hour doing that.
> 
> So my 2012 point count is down to 0 --- with 535 points left in 2013. Until, I get my ratio point allocation on or before 11/19/12 modifications.



Very smart move!! We have advised all of the owners we rent points for and assist with their points management to do the same. As of this date, all of their points have been rolled into 2013 already.


----------



## ronparise

Sandi Bo said:


> I have a fixed week contract with a September 30 use year.  Wyndham said that is a mistake and they will fix it with this change (maybe).  It just doesn't seem right to me that I bought (resale if it matters) a contract with a September 30 use year and they are now deciding to fix it.   When I asked where that is documented (that it should be Dec 31) she couldn't find anything and reverted to "it's policy".



Not that being on the website makes it anything more than policy  but in the Online Learning Center under Fixed weeks


Fixed Week owners who have converted to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus have a January to December Use Year.


----------



## regatta333

rcollinsny said:


> I agree with one of the other Tuggers in that it really looks like Wyndham is trying to force more points into the RCI system to pump up the fees. I really dislike RCI resorts for the most part, my wife and I have been spoiled by the better accommodations of the Wyndham resorts.



I agree also.  If this has nothing to do with a programming problem, why not program in the change to keep track of the expiration date of the points so they cannot continue to be pushed out beyond their expiration?

For me, having the one contract with an Oct-Sept use year was a great benefit, because it meant I never had left-over points that got wasted.  All of my December-use year points were used for ski week and summer vacations with some always being left over.  Since we always do some travel in Sept or Oct, these could always be combined with my Oct-Sept points for those reservations and no points were ever wasted.  If I did not use points for our Sept/Oct vacation, I would book a fall reservation to deposit to DAE or SFX with the same result.  Now there were always be some number of points that get lost, because I stopped depositing to RCI when they changed the exchange grid a few years ago.

In no way, shape, or form does this enable owners to "better manage" their points and it's insulting to even purport that it would.


----------



## ronparise

Do I understand this right?

 If I have an account with just one contract that  use year wont change.

and if I have 3 contracts, 2 with a April use year and 1 with an October use year...the two Aprils will be adjusted to October?

but if I have an account with several contracts and one is a Jan use year everything is adjusted to Jan


I see two problems for owners with this change, 

one is for folks that routinely dont use all their points. They have gotten used to just rolling them into next year. While I understand you being upset...lets face it you have been taking advantage of a loophole that wasnt supposed to be there. Points are supposed to have an expiration date and you have been getting around that.. 

the second situation concerns me more. and thats the guy who makes a reservation at the end of his use year (for me that would be Christmas or New Years Eve) and at the last minute has to cancel. I believe that guy should be given some additional time to use those points...as it is the only option is RCI

For me, I dont have the problem of unused points. in fact I have already use my 2013 and my 2014 points. Im waiting for Jan 1 so I can get my hands on 2015. But I do have a problem with end of the year reservations... My solution will be 2 accounts. and Ill make Christmas reservations in the one with a June expiration date


----------



## Sandi Bo

ronparise said:


> Not that being on the website makes it anything more than policy  but in the Online Learning Center under Fixed weeks
> 
> 
> Fixed Week owners who have converted to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus have a January to December Use Year.



Thanks Ron.  

Ironic, the 168K resale contract I picked up on eBay is going to dictate the fate of 1.4M developer purchased points.


----------



## regatta333

ronparise said:


> one is for folks that routinely dont use all their points. They have gotten used to just rolling them into next year. While I understand you being upset...lets face it you have been taking advantage of a loophole that wasnt supposed to be there. Points are supposed to have an expiration date and you have been getting around that..
> 
> te



I'm not talking about rolling points forward, but combining points from two different use years that both overlap in the fall to book a transaction in that time period.  For example, this year, I was able to use my remaining Dec expiration points in combination with the points in my Oct-Sept use year to book a 203 K point reservation for my kids in Hawaii at the end of Oct.  No points get rolled over unless the reservation is cancelled, which it was not.  You do not have to rollover points to ensure that none get wasted, and with multiple use years, this was never an issue


----------



## am1

The solution will be credit pooling to avoid losing left over points each year.  But yes the Christmas/New Years is what worries me most.  At a lot of resorts it is the most sought after time and that combined with the use it or lose it will result in very cancellations for those dates.  The people with points expiring but no availability will really be in a tough spot.


----------



## Sandi Bo

I wish I felt this was better thought out.  Unless you look at it from Wyndham's view point and that it will encourage deposits to RCI, I don't understand why they would want the majority of owners to have a Dec 31 use year.  

I'm on board with removing the "bringing it forward" loophole. They should have fixed that in their system. For the other reasons we have multiple use years, or use years other than 12/31, their solution to align everyone is not acceptable to me.  I feel like it's a knee jerk reaction to the new system not being able to support multiple use years.  That's the camp I'm in.

P.S. I won't be buying a ball cap.


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> I have a bunch of cancelled points which were supposed to die on Sept 30, 2013. Being a very cautious person, I decide I better make some Spring 2013 reservations with those cancelled points -- to move them into 2013 calendar USE year. Spent better part of an hour doing that.
> 
> So my 2012 point count is down to 0 --- with 535 points left in 2013. Until, I get my ratio point allocation on or before 11/19/12 modifications.



Wise move, I did the same thing, I have no pre-January regular year use points left except for my PIC contract, which is excluded from the changes at this point.


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> I wish I felt this was better thought out.  Unless you look at it from Wyndham's view point and that it will encourage deposits to RCI, I don't understand why they would want the majority of owners to have a Dec 31 use year.
> 
> I'm on board with removing the "bringing it forward" loophole. They should have fixed that in their system. For the other reasons we have multiple use years, or use years other than 12/31, their solution to align everyone is not acceptable to me.  I feel like it's a knee jerk reaction to the new system not being able to support multiple use years.  That's the camp I'm in.
> 
> P.S. I won't be buying a ball cap.



Do not rule out the ball cap yet, the way I read the message is that January 1 will get most of the contracts.  However, if someone managed not to have a January 1 contract, then some odd ball use years under the new system would survive.


----------



## csxjohn

ronparise said:


> ...lets face it you have been taking advantage of a loophole that wasnt supposed to be there. Points are supposed to have an expiration date and you have been getting around that..
> 
> the second situation concerns me more. and thats the guy who makes a reservation at the end of his use year (for me that would be Christmas or New Years Eve) and at the last minute has to cancel. I believe that guy should be given some additional time to use those points...as it is the only option is RCI



One one hand you say that points should and do have an expiration date.

If you believe this, why should you be able to extend canceled points past their expiration date just because you decide to cancel your reservation?

What am I missing?


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> The solution will be credit pooling to avoid losing left over points each year.  But yes the Christmas/New Years is what worries me most.  At a lot of resorts it is the most sought after time and that combined with the use it or lose it will result in very cancellations for those dates.  The people with points expiring but no availability will really be in a tough spot.



I absolutly believe that Credit Pool is the safe answer for most situations during the transition.  However, beware, cancelled points can be used for RCI reservations but Credit Pool cannot be, according to Wyndham Reservations.


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> Thanks Ron.
> 
> Ironic, the 168K resale contract I picked up on eBay is going to dictate the fate of 1.4M developer purchased points.



Your only hope is, if you have not received your notice yet and you have no PIC contracts, quick, call Wyndham Owner Care and move your re-sale contract end of year use date to the one you want, cross your fingers, and hope for the best.  Do not under any circumstances tell them why you are doing this.  It is my understanding you can do this once per contract.


----------



## rcollinsny

am1 said:


> The solution will be credit pooling to avoid losing left over points each year.  But yes the Christmas/New Years is what worries me most.  At a lot of resorts it is the most sought after time and that combined with the use it or lose it will result in very cancellations for those dates.  The people with points expiring but no availability will really be in a tough spot.



Credit Pooling is NOT the answer!! If you move your points into the credit pool and pay the fee, book a reservation and then have to cancel, those points go back into the year of the reservation as cancel points and will expire at the end of that year. It does not matter that you paid to move them into the pool, they will not retain the pool year end date!!


----------



## ronparise

csxjohn said:


> One one hand you say that points should and do have an expiration date.
> 
> If you believe this, why should you be able to extend canceled points past their expiration date just because you decide to cancel your reservation?
> 
> What am I missing?



Id support something like this. if you cancel a reservation in the last 3 months of your use year, the cancel points are good for another 3 months.   and the replacement reservation is non cancellable


----------



## SOS8260456

csxjohn said:


> One one hand you say that points should and do have an expiration date.
> 
> If you believe this, why should you be able to extend canceled points past their expiration date just because you decide to cancel your reservation?
> 
> What am I missing?





ronparise said:


> Id support something like this. if you cancel a reservation in the last 3 months of your use year, the cancel points are good for another 3 months.   and the replacement reservation is non cancellable



I agree that there should be something like Ron suggests.  Yes, I do agree that points should have a definative expiration date.  However, Wyndham has taken away the owner's right to select their use year based on their travel needs.  

One thing I have not heard or seen posted or maybe just miss is: 
What is Wyndham going to do going forward?  

Are all new contracts going to be required to be calendar year?  

If you purchase a July use year contract on the resale market, will they allow it to keep that use year status if it is your first contract or if deeded in a different name?

If you get through this with your fiscal year contracts intact, what will happen at a later date if you decide to add on a calendar year resale contract?

OK, and finally, I am not sure, but do Worldmark, Starwood, Diamond, Hilton, have different fiscal use years?  I don't think they do, so how do they get around the holiday reservation possible cancellation problem?

The other problem with pooling your points, for those not familiar with it, is that it cannot be done last minute.  If you are not a VIP owner, you need to do this BEFORE your use year starts and when you make a reservation, it brings the points into that use year, so if you cancel, you still have the same problem.


----------



## am1

rcollinsny said:


> Credit Pooling is NOT the answer!! I



It is if you are wanting to avoid a few thousand unused point every year or you have a change in vacation needs before you book.


----------



## CO skier

SOS8260456 said:


> OK, and finally, I am not sure, but do Worldmark, Starwood, Diamond, Hilton, have different fiscal use years?  I don't think they do, so how do they get around the holiday reservation possible cancellation problem?



WorldMark has 12 different "use years" (but each account can have only one "use year" [in practice, it is an "anniversary month"]), depending on the month when the original contract was written.  Points have a two year expiration date,  so they can be carried over to a future year.  Points can also be borrowed from the next year's usage.  It is theoretically possible, but someone would really have to work at it to run into a Christmas cancellation problem.

(If Wyndham tried to change WM use years, point expirations, etc., I think it would mean WAR).


----------



## rcollinsny

am1 said:


> It is if you are wanting to avoid a few thousand unused point every year or you have a change in vacation needs before you book.



Exactly, but it does not help one with Cancel points!!


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> It is if you are wanting to avoid a few thousand unused point every year or you have a change in vacation needs before you book.



but its not a solution for the problem at hand

The solution for todays problem is not to cancel anything at the end of your use year


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> WorldMark has 12 different "use years" (but each account can have only one "use year" [in practice, it is an "anniversary month"]), depending on the month when the original contract was written.  Points have a two year expiration date,  so they can be carried over to a future year.  Points can also be borrowed from the next year's usage.  It is theoretically possible, but someone would really have to work at it to run into a Christmas cancellation problem.
> 
> (If Wyndham tried to change WM use years, point expirations, etc., I think it would mean WAR).



Not a lot of work I think, and not hard to do. all it takes is a little lack of planning. If I make a reservation with points that are about to expire, and I make that reservation 13 months out and my plans change Im going to lose those credits.

Its that poor planning that will get someone in trouble with their Wyndham points too. It used to be easy for someone with several accounts with different use years to recover. It wont be going forward. Which makes advance planning, always important with timeshares, even more important now.

No doubt some of us are going to lose some points


----------



## staceyeileen

Can you not deposit canceled points into RCI?  Why would anyone lose points?


----------



## lcml11

staceyeileen said:


> Can you not deposit canceled points into RCI?  Why would anyone lose points?



I believe RCI has a minium point deposit and then there are additional RCI fees involved.  Then you get into the problem that RCI does not permit rentals of the exchange weeks or risk loss of the account.  That is before you even consider that RCI will rent weeks dirt cheap through the Extra Vacations program.


----------



## ronparise

staceyeileen said:


> Can you not deposit canceled points into RCI?  Why would anyone lose points?



That is the option now. but the op rents reservations and so do I and so do many of the folks here that are concerned about this new policy.  We make reservations well in advance of check in and expect to get it rented. If we dont we cancel and make a new reservation and try again. At the end of the year, there wont be that opportunity to try again.  You cant rent RCI exchanges

As you point out, this wont be a big deal for most owners.  But it is a problem for the so called mega renter. Which is, I think, Wyndhams intent. Dont worry about us though...we'll figure out how to deal with it and perhaps figure out some new ways to make the system work for us


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> Not a lot of work I think, and not hard to do. all it takes is a little lack of planning. If I make a reservation with points that are about to expire, and I make that reservation 13 months out and my plans change Im going to lose those credits.



Yes ... theoretically possible ... as previously stated.


----------



## jebloomquist

ronparise said:


> That is the option now. but the op rents reservations and so do I and so do many of the folks here that are concerned about this new policy.  We make reservations well in advance of check in and expect to get it rented. If we dont we cancel and make a new reservation and try again. At the end of the year, there wont be that opportunity to try again.  You cant rent RCI exchanges
> 
> As you point out, this wont be a big deal for most owners.  But it is a problem for the so called mega renter. Which is, I think, Wyndhams intent. Dont worry about us though...we'll figure out how to deal with it and perhaps figure out some new ways to make the system work for us



It is my opinion that the Use Year End changes will be a small problem for most renters. It may even discourage many from seeking VIP types of ownership in order to do small time rentals.

Do you think that one of Wyndham's intentions is to take over the rental business? If so, Wyndham might encounter some unintended consequences. 

As mentioned above, selling VIP ownerships may be more difficult. But secondly, the owner-renters bring fresh blood to the Wyndham sales doorstep. If Wyndham totally takes over the rental business, the word of mouth and other forms of advertising, plus all other entrepreneurial endeavors of the renters will disappear. 

This I believe would harm Wyndham more than the architects of this Use Year End change had anticipated. Is Wyndham ready to advertise in Craigslist, ebay, and every workplace and neighborhood that the current renter cover? Renters and their spirit are gifts for Wyndham that it should not crush.

I hope that my thoughts are way out of the realm of potential reality, but I am not sure.

Jim


----------



## Cheryl20772

ronparise said:


> If I make a reservation with points that are about to expire, and I make that reservation 13 months out and my plans change Im going to lose those credits.


Sorry, but I don't understand how anyone can think that points "13 months out" are "about to expire"


----------



## ronparise

Cheryl20772 said:


> Sorry, but I don't understand how anyone can think that points "13 months out" are "about to expire"



with worldmark all my credits can be used to make a reservation 13 months out. even the credits that are about to expire.

so if my anniversary month is November, and today i still have credits in my account  that were awarded in November 2010, these credits will expire at the end of the month if I do nothing.  I can however make a reservation for a December 2013 vacation (13 months from now)

Its a pretty neat system

by the way...i should have used the word "credits" rather than "points" in my post. As you can tell Im still a Wyndham guy at heart


----------



## rcollinsny

ronparise said:


> with worldmark all my credits can be used to make a reservation 13 months out. even the credits that are about to expire.
> 
> so if my anniversary month is November, and today i still have credits in my account  that were awarded in November 2010, these credits will expire at the end of the month if I do nothing.  I can however make a reservation for a December 2013 vacation (13 months from now)
> 
> Its a pretty neat system
> 
> by the way...i should have used the word "credits" rather than "points" in my post. As you can tell Im still a Wyndham guy at heart



Well now that Wyndham owns Worldmark, how long do you think it will take for them to downgrade the Worldmark credits model to the Wyndham points model?!!


----------



## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> Well now that Wyndham owns Worldmark, how long do you think it will take for them to downgrade the Worldmark credits model to the Wyndham points model?!!



Not much of a chance at all, Wyndham has controlled Worldmark for a long time now.


----------



## ronparise

rcollinsny said:


> Well now that Wyndham owns Worldmark, how long do you think it will take for them to downgrade the Worldmark credits model to the Wyndham points model?!!



now youve done it..Worldmark owners are quick to point out that Wyndham doesnt own Worldmark. Wyndham is just the developer and manager


----------



## rcollinsny

ronparise said:


> now youve done it..Worldmark owners are quick to point out that Wyndham doesnt own Worldmark. Wyndham is just the developer and manager



oops, my mistake!! Thanks for clarifying that for me. I sure do not want to start anymore controversial threads!! :rofl:


----------



## nkldavy

*One Was, One Wasn't - They've Started Already*

Under one of our Member Numbers nothing had moved as of today.

Under the other Member Number, points had already been moved from starting 1 July 2013 to 1 January 2014.   However .... they didn't put half the points into our 2013 account.  Owner Care assured me they would be in by tomorrow ... that the "glitch" has been recognized and is being corrected.

Uncle Davey


----------



## rcollinsny

nkldavy said:


> Under one of our Member Numbers nothing had moved as of today.
> 
> Under the other Member Number, points had already been moved from starting 1 July 2013 to 1 January 2014.   However .... they didn't put half the points into our 2013 account.  Owner Care assured me they would be in by tomorrow ... that the "glitch" has been recognized and is being corrected.
> 
> Uncle Davey



None of the 10 contracts we have with varying fiscal years have been moved to align with our other calendar year contracts either. I can't wait to see how many ways they manage to mess up these adjustments!!


----------



## lcml11

nkldavy said:


> Under one of our Member Numbers nothing had moved as of today.
> 
> Under the other Member Number, points had already been moved from starting 1 July 2013 to 1 January 2014.   However .... they didn't put half the points into our 2013 account.  Owner Care assured me they would be in by tomorrow ... that the "glitch" has been recognized and is being corrected.
> 
> Uncle Davey



On your July 1, 2013 contract, did your full point amount show up on January 1, 2013


----------



## bogey21

I'm not a Wyndham Owner and never have been but following this thread has been interesting to say the least.  My question is "Do you all think what Wyndham did was reasonable and could have been anticipated"?

George


----------



## regatta333

regatta333 said:


> Well, I just checked my account online.  The use year of my one contract that is Oct-Sept just got realigned and I got 1/4 of the point value added to my 2013 points.  I was not even given the courtesy of an email explaining what was happening.  If not for belonging to TUG, I would be clueless.
> 
> They keep saying customer sat and your vacation experience is their top priority, but their actions are at complete odds with this.  How they can implement something like this without alerting people is beyond me.



Well, I got the email notification at 5:02 pm today, after the changes had already been made to my account.  What an outfit!  I called the toll free number they provided in the email just to make my displeasure known for how this whole thing has been handled.

Received the usual song and dance about how this would make it easier for owners to manage their points.  I asked how and they said that many owners were complaining of points disappearing and they could not track it, to which I responded that it sounded like it was a Wyndham programming issue, not an owner's problem with managing points.  And it that were the case, why not align just the accounts of owners who expressed a desire to do so.  
I've had two situations in the past where owner care had asked me if I wanted them to realign my Oct-Sept use year and I declined.

I think it's an insult for them to present this a something that is beneficial to owners, when the exact opposite is true.


----------



## lcml11

bogey21 said:


> I'm not a Wyndham Owner and never have been but following this thread has been interesting to say the least.  My question is "Do you all think what Wyndham did was reasonable and could have been anticipated"?
> 
> George



Reasonable or not, that depends on perspective.  Wyndham Worldwide is a for profit corporation with various subsidaries.  One of which is Wyndham Vacation Ownership.  Their duty is to their shareholders.  

They have functional control of a number of timeshare share systems, Club Wyndham Plus, Club Wyndham Access, Shell Vacation Club, etc., etc., etc., within that context, the answer is presumably that they think so.

To the extent that could this have been anticipated, I believed and acted on the belief thoughout this year that Wyndham was going to do something to force the using of points in an accerated basis than what was the past practice.  I thought it was going to be in conjunction with project Voyager.  I did not see this particular verision coming or the form of the change coming as a prelude to the roll-out of Voyager.

Fortanetly, it appears this change will not have a whole lot of effect on users with 750,000 thousand or less points especially with the adjustment/compensation points being given.  

The impact, as I think this thread shows, is unknown on the rentors and re-sellers (i.e. will it add value or subtract value from ownership interests).  I do not think the answer to this will become visable until the other shoe drops.  The roll-out of Voyager.  With any luck at all, all parties will be the winners because the new system will eliminate waste, etc. in the current system.


----------



## massvacationer

bogey21 said:


> I'm not a Wyndham Owner and never have been but following this thread has been interesting to say the least.  My question is "Do you all think what Wyndham did was reasonable and could have been anticipated"?
> 
> George



Wyndham is rolling out an updated reservation system in the near future.  IMHO, they couldn't get it to work for owner-accounts that have multiple use years.   So they are putting each owner into a single use year.  This is my guess as to why this happening. 

I was upset at first, as I have multiple use years.  After more reflection, I am okay with it as the use year that they are going to put all my points in, will work well for me.

I think they should have asked each affected owner, which use year they want.    I think they should have communicated this much better.

I think Wyndham needs to put together an advisory group of experienced owners that represent the different types of users.  Some Platinum VIPs, some smaller points owners and some resale owners.  Make sure they are all experienced and heavy users.   Before any changes are made, they should consult with this group to get an idea for what the consequences (both intended and unintended) will be.  The system is so complex and huge, that it is almost like the currency/monetary system of a small country.  Every change creates many different results and consequences, and I think that the folks at Wyndham Corporate don't necessarily understand what these will be in advance.


----------



## lcml11

regatta333 said:


> Well, I got the email notification at 5:02 pm today, after the changes had already been made to my account.  What an outfit!  I called the toll free number they provided in the email just to make my displeasure known for how this whole thing has been handled.
> 
> Received the usual song and dance about how this would make it easier for owners to manage their points.  I asked how and they said that many owners were complaining of points disappearing and they could not track it, to which I responded that it sounded like it was a Wyndham programming issue, not an owner's problem with managing points.  And it that were the case, why not align just the accounts of owners who expressed a desire to do so.
> I've had two situations in the past where owner care had asked me if I wanted them to realign my Oct-Sept use year and I declined.
> 
> I think it's an insult for them to present this a something that is beneficial to owners, when the exact opposite is true.



Mind if I ask if your E-Mail gave November 19 as the implementation date or did it not mention one since it was after the fact?  Also, did you get the adjustment/compensation points and if so, what name did they give them?


----------



## regatta333

lcml11 said:


> Mind if I ask if your E-Mail gave November 19 as the implementation date or did it not mention one since it was after the fact?  Also, did you get the adjustment/compensation points and if so, what name did they give them?



Yes, to the Nov 19 implementation date.  Other questions already answered in a prior post.


----------



## lcml11

regatta333 said:


> Yes, to the Nov 19 implementation date.  Other questions already answered in a prior post.



Thanks for the info.


----------



## bnoble

> My question is "Do you all think what Wyndham did was reasonable and could have been anticipated"?


Reasonable?  Maybe.

Anticipated?  I think so.  The cancel-forward technique is one that has been known for quite some time, and most seasoned Wyndham owners knew that it was a loophole---to the point that most did not discuss the details openly on a public forum.  It was only a matter of time before that loophole got closed.  This is only one of the ways it could have been closed---this is a ham-handed one, but one that requires little to no changes to the underlying software running the point-management system.  And, one thing we *do* know is that Wyndham IT is not particularly talented, so simple solutions are more likely.


----------



## EZ Ed

*How much ill will are they creating?  I can NEVER say anything good about Wyndham now*

Okay, I understand WHAT they are doing; my question is, "Can we doing ANYTHING to opt out of this unilateral decision of Wyndham's?" I LIKE the way my points are arranged; it is advantageous to me the way it's currently arranged. I NEVER run out of points, and I NEVER have to borrow or buy points from Wyndham.

Even if some have used this to escape losing cancelled points, what about those of us who always use them to combine our regular points so that we never lose points in the transition from one contract year to the other.  (I only have two contracts, with a  start date six months apart.)  I haven't used a "loophole" to "revitalize" cancelled points. 

Some of the other moves Wyndham has made have more greatly affected the "whales" among us, those mega-points owners. This move, I would assume, strikes at many of the rank-and-file members, like myself. I really can't express my anger at this move right now without resorting to profanity, so I choose to back off right now.

Is there ANYTHING we can do as a group or as a class? The timing of this does not lend itself to much organized response, does it?
Thanks,
EZ Ed


----------



## pacodemountainside

bogey21 said:


> I'm not a Wyndham Owner and never have been but following this thread has been interesting to say the least.  My question is "Do you all think what Wyndham did was reasonable and could have been anticipated"?
> 
> George



When change gores your neighbors ox, thats the breaks.  When it is your ox  then it is work of the Devil,  call the  exorcists.  Like a rescission is when neighbor is laid  off and depression is when you are laid off.

Your question highlights a major misconception. Wyndham  Vacation Operation/sales  did not make this change! Actually probably unhappy as a "secret"  to enhance  sales has been eliminated.

The VOI Trust of 1991  controls  all reservation operations. Granted the Trust is run by three Wyndham Corporate Potentates which  Trust states there should also  be  four owner  members like  us TUGGER  Wyndham owners, but Arkansas AG has said  not his problem, retain  an attorney.

So, there is no direct cash in Wyndham's pocket just some Trust members have had their oxes gored.

This is exact opposite where a  $ saved in reduced VIP  benefits flows directly to Wyndham sales.

Could this  specific  change have been predicted, doubt it. But can changes that upset  savvy  owners be anticipated, YES virtually guaranteed!

Unlike most successful companies that pamper  biggest owner/customers Wyndham  screws  most  of  us sans Vaseline in some manner.

Suggest you read William Spearman  article in TimeSharing Today of  March/April  2009. He  skewered Wyndham. But what is  amazing  he and author of Wyndham  Gestation both blew when they predicted Wyndham stock would go  to Hell and instead has gone from around 4 to 50  defying  those Harvard Business School  Professors  teachings.

You can bet your bippies when  some of the rumors come true in the near future more oxes are going to get gored.  To the extent they allow Wyndham (EH)  to legally steal inventory at  60 day mark, then  it costs us  "peasants" money or  a least  reduced usage.

Fearless forecast, things are going to get worser!


----------



## lcml11

pacodemountainside said:


> When change gores your neighbors ox, thats the breaks.  When it is your ox  then it is work of the Devil,  call the  exorcists.  Like a rescission is when neighbor is laid  off and depression is when you are laid off.
> 
> Your question highlights a major misconception. Wyndham  Vacation Operation/sales  did not make this change! Actually probably unhappy as a "secret"  to enhance  sales has been eliminated.
> 
> The VOI Trust of 1991  controls  all reservation operations. Granted the Trust is run by three Wyndham Corporate Potentates which  Trust states there should also  be  four owner  members like  us TUGGER  Wyndham owners, but Arkansas AG has said  not his problem, retain  an attorney.
> 
> So, there is no direct cash in Wyndham's pocket just some Trust members have had their oxes gored.
> 
> This is exact opposite where a  $ saved in reduced VIP  benefits flows directly to Wyndham sales.
> 
> Could this  specific  change have been predicted, doubt it. But can changes that upset  savvy  owners be anticipated, YES virtually guaranteed!
> 
> Unlike most successful companies that pamper  biggest owner/customers Wyndham  screws  most  of  us sans Vaseline in some manner.
> 
> Suggest you read William Spearman  article in TimeSharing Today of  March/April  2009. He  skewered Wyndham. But what is  amazing  he and author of Wyndham  Gestation both blew when they predicted Wyndham stock would go  to Hell and instead has gone from around 4 to 50  defying  those Harvard Business School  Professors  teachings.
> 
> You can bet your bippies when  some of the rumors come true in the near future more oxes are going to get gored.  To the extent they allow Wyndham (EH)  to legally steal inventory at  60 day mark, then  it costs us  "peasants" money or  a least  reduced usage.
> 
> Fearless forecast, things are going to get worser!



All the more reason to get the owner inventory squared away in the closing hours of the roll-out, then sharply, when the adjustment/compensation points show up, get them committed ASAP before Voyager or other changes kick in.


----------



## CO skier

EZ Ed said:


> Okay, I understand WHAT they are doing; my question is, "Can we doing ANYTHING to opt out of this unilateral decision of Wyndham's?" I LIKE the way my points are arranged; it is advantageous to me the way it's currently arranged. I NEVER run out of points, and I NEVER have to borrow or buy points from Wyndham.
> 
> Even if some have used this to escape losing cancelled points, what about those of us who always use them to combine our regular points so that we never lose points in the transition from one contract year to the other.  (I only have two contracts, with a  start date six months apart.)  I haven't used a "loophole" to "revitalize" cancelled points.



There is no way to opt out, but it sounds as though you can easily adapt, based on the limited description you provided.  If you are not now using ARP for the overlap of your contracts, you can duplicate what you are doing with the two contracts, and not lose a single point, by making a deposit to the Credit Pool.  It will cost $39 that you did not have to pay before, but it will prevent any loss.

If you do not use ARP at all, it is even simpler.  Just time your Credit Pool deposit to deposit as many points as possible for the $39 dollars.  (I think if you Credit Pool just before the beginning of your use year, you can deposit 2 year's worth of points).  Credit Pool points are good for 3 years, so you should have no difficulty drawing on them as needed.

Review the rules for the Credit Pool; it sounds as though it may be your newest best friend.

As noted before, the Credit Pool does not work for people trying to manage cancelled points near the end of their use year, but that does not sound like the situation you described.  Just make sure any Credit Pool deposit is made before the start of the use year.


----------



## lcml11

My use years did combine on my on-line screan overnight.  I ended up with a November Regular, November Cancelled, January Regular and January Cancelled use years.  The November use years are the PIC.  

I made a one night reservation for January from the November regular year use points and it did what it normally did before the change, it moved the points forward to the January use year cancelled points when I cancelled the reservation.

To the extent that it is a benifit to have the ability to move points forward across use years for owners that bought from Wyndham that used the PIC option, that appears to be a on-going ability at this point in time.

January 2014 is not within the ARP period yet.  So a test on rolling over January 2013 points to January 2014 points cannot be done by me at this time.

For whatever it is worth, under the old system, I would see a consoladated point number for each use year.  If I called in, the rep would have to add up each contract use year for the total, leaving a possable problem with the number they provide (it has happened to me a number of times, including today).    The reps apparently are still not seeing a consoladated points number per use year, they apparently see available points per contract under both the new and old systems.


----------



## regatta333

lcml11 said:


> My use years did combine on my on-line screan overnight.  I ended up with a November Regular, November Cancelled, January Regular and January Cancelled use years.  The November use years are the PIC.
> 
> I made a one night reservation for January from the November regular year use points and it did what it normally did before the change, it moved the points forward to the January use year cancelled points.
> 
> To the extent that it is a benifit to have the ability to move points forward across use years for VIP owners that used the PIC option, that appears to be a on-going ability at this point in time.
> 
> January 2014 is not within the ARP period yet.  So a test on rolling over January 2013 points to January 2014 points cannot be done by me at this time.



For the PIC experts, if I have a L/O unit at a resort that is dual-affiliated,
can I lock off the unit, PIC one side with Wyndham and deposit the other to II?  Does the week need to be pre-approved by Wyndham, and how would I determine the number of points I would be awarded?


----------



## lcml11

regatta333 said:


> For the PIC experts, if I have a L/O unit at a resort that is dual-affiliated,
> can I lock off the unit, PIC one side with Wyndham and deposit the other to II?  Does the week need to be pre-approved by Wyndham, and how would I determine the number of points I would be awarded?



Check your PIC contract on the unit involved and it should tell you what options you have.  Specifically, if the unit can be seperated under the PIC contract, you should have two different point amounts if that path is used.

When I convert my PIC points on a yearly basis, the maintance fees have to be paid to the resort.  RCI then sends a e-mail to the resort to confirm the availablity of the unit.  

When this is done, then the owner calls Wyndham and finishes the transaction.


----------



## regatta333

lcml11 said:


> Check your PIC contract on the unit involved and it should tell you what options you have.  Specifically, if the unit can be seperated under the PIC contract, you should have two different point amounts if that path is used.
> 
> When I convert my PIC points on a yearly basis, the maintance fees have to be paid to the resort.  RCI then sends a e-mail to the resort to confirm the availablity of the unit.
> 
> When this is done, then the owner calls Wyndham and finishes the transaction.



I have never PICed my week before.  When I look at the Wyndham directory, it says that to be eligible to PIC a contract, you must make a new purchase with Wyndham.  Is this correct?


----------



## ronparise

regatta333 said:


> I have never PICed my week before.  When I look at the Wyndham directory, it says that to be eligible to PIC a contract, you must make a new purchase with Wyndham.  Is this correct?



Yes thats correct

last time I checked you are limited to to PIC weeks and for each one you must make a 50000 credit purchase


----------



## lcml11

regatta333 said:


> I have never PICed my week before.  When I look at the Wyndham directory, it says that to be eligible to PIC a contract, you must make a new purchase with Wyndham.  Is this correct?



It is my understanding that there is no way to PIC a non-Wyndham week unless a new purchase is made.  If a new purchase is made, than up to two non-Wyndham weeks can be PICed.  The number of points bought somehow relate to the number of points that can be brought in under the PIC program.

If your weeks were not PICed in conjunction with a new purchase, then it is unlikely they can be used under the PIC program.


----------



## regatta333

ronparise said:


> Yes thats correct
> 
> last time I checked you are limited to to PIC weeks and for each one you must make a 50000 credit purchase



50,000 points or $50,000?  Is this requirement ever waived.  In the past, didn't there used to be a way to pay a fee through corporate to do this, or am I confusing this with PlusPartners?


----------



## lcml11

regatta333 said:


> 50,000 points or $50,000?  Is this requirement ever waived.  In the past, didn't there used to be a way to pay a fee through corporate to do this, or am I confusing this with PlusPartners?



What you are referring to is not a non-Wyndham owned unit.  It is a interval that is part of a Wyndham Resort that is a fixed or floating week.  Wyndham Coorporate can, for a fee, convert this week to points.  It is then referred to as a converted fixed week.  Under the new system, it appears that this converted fixed week will have a January 1 start date.


----------



## bnoble

A small point, but AFAIK, converted fixed weeks were always January UYs.


----------



## ronparise

regatta333 said:


> 50,000 points or $50,000?  Is this requirement ever waived.  In the past, didn't there used to be a way to pay a fee through corporate to do this, or am I confusing this with PlusPartners?



50000 points, never waived

you are confusing it with converted fixed weeks


----------



## rcollinsny

lcml11 said:


> The reps apparently are still not seeing a consolidated points number per use year, they apparently see available points per contract under both the new and old systems.



Wyndham has NOT installed a new reservations system yet!! They are still using the old system but forcing the physical contracts to have the same use year end dates. That way the current system deficiencies dealing with multiple year end contracts has been skirted with a manual change.


----------



## lcml11

I received 66,500 adjustment/compensation points that showed up as regular use year points in the Jan 1 use year.


----------



## antjmar

lcml11 said:


> I received 66,500 adjustment/compensation points that showed up as regular use year points in the Jan 1 use year.



Were these added to jan 2013 or jan 2014 points?


----------



## lcml11

antjmar said:


> Were these added to jan 2013 or jan 2014 points?



January 2013.  They had told me over the phone that I would be getting 25 percent of my October 1 allocation as adjustment/compensation points, 80 some thousand points.  It was actually less than 25 percent, it came out less in reality.


----------



## antjmar

lcml11 said:


> January 2013.  They had told me over the phone that I would be getting 25 percent of my October 1 allocation as adjustment/compensation points, 80 some thousand points.  It was actually less than 25 percent, it came out less in reality.


Thank you. looks like Ill have some "extra" 2013 point to use...
I would call them about the math error.


----------



## lcml11

antjmar said:


> Thank you. looks like Ill have some "extra" 2013 point to use...
> I would call them about the math error.



Talked with owner care, they advise their guidance is that they are not allowed to make adjustments on missing points resulting from this adjustment until after November 19.


----------



## rcollinsny

antjmar said:


> Thank you. looks like Ill have some "extra" 2013 point to use...



PLEASE remember, these are not "EXTRA" 2013 points!! These are an "advance" on the points you would have received anyway later in 2013 at the start of your old fiscal use year. Your next full allocation of points will NOT be until 2014.


----------



## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> PLEASE remember, these are not "EXTRA" 2013 points!! These are an "advance" on the points you would have received anyway later in 2013 at the start of your old fiscal use year. Your next full allocation of points will NOT be until 2014.



In my case, they were not an advance they were extra points.  It would be interesting to hear from others that have been converted as to what they are seeing on their points screen.

To:  rcollinsny, has your account updated yet, and if so, how did it work out?


----------



## rcollinsny

lcml11 said:


> In my case, they were not an advance they were extra points.  It would be interesting to hear from others that have been converted as to what they are seeing on their points screen.
> 
> To:  rcollinsny, has your account updated yet, and if so, how did it work out?



Please explain how they are "extra" points for you. That would be contrary to my understanding of how this is working?

My account has not been updated. We have 10 contracts with fiscal years other than our calendar year contracts and should get approximately 1.5 million adjustment points when it happens. Like I said before, only time will tell how messy it will become!!


----------



## antjmar

rcollinsny said:


> PLEASE remember, these are not "EXTRA" 2013 points!! These are an "advance" on the points you would have received anyway later in 2013 at the start of your old fiscal use year. Your next full allocation of points will NOT be until 2014.



I meant to say extra as in unanticipated points. I use most of my points for ARP so 2013 points are already used.



lcml11 said:


> In my case, they were not an advance they were extra points.  It would be interesting to hear from others that have been converted as to what they are seeing on their points screen.
> 
> To:  rcollinsny, has your account updated yet, and if so, how did it work out?



I hope the are indeed "bonus"   points. I will update  when it happens. I havent even received an e-mail from Wyndham!


----------



## regatta333

lcml11 said:


> In my case, they were not an advance they were extra points.  It would be interesting to hear from others that have been converted as to what they are seeing on their points screen.
> 
> To:  rcollinsny, has your account updated yet, and if so, how did it work out?



As stated previously, they are not extra.  They are the share of your annual points (previously available over a fiscal Oct-Sept time period) prorated over 3months of 2013.  Your 2014 points will now have the balance of that use year plus the prorated 3 months for the next Oct-Sept use year, giving the same annual total.  That is how they made the conversion.


----------



## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> Please explain how they are "extra" points for you. That would be contrary to my understanding of how this is working?
> 
> My account has not been updated. We have 10 contracts with fiscal years other than our calendar year contracts and should get approximately 1.5 million adjustment points when it happens. Like I said before, only time will tell how messy it will become!!



CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Point Status
2013 Total 
Travel From 	Expiration	Points Description	Points Available	Housekeeping 
Available
Nov 13, 2012 	Oct 3, 2013 	Regular 	28,500	105
Nov 13, 2012 	Oct 31, 2013 	Cancel 	5,780	0
Jan 1, 2013 	Dec 31, 2013 	Regular 	650,750	909
Jan 1, 2013 	Dec 31, 2013 	Cancel 	376,000	0
2014 Total 
Travel From 	Expiration	Points Description	Points Available	Housekeeping 
Available
Jan 1, 2014 	Dec 31, 2014 	Regular 	1,011,000	1,011

Please note my Jan 1, 2013 regular use year points are 650,750 points.  Before the update they were 584,250.


----------



## lcml11

regatta333 said:


> As stated previously, they are not extra.  They are the share of your annual points (previously available over a fiscal Oct-Sept time period) prorated over 3months of 2013.  Your 2014 points will now have the balance of that use year plus the prorated 3 months for the next Oct-Sept use year, giving the same annual total.  That is how they made the conversion.



Oh, I did not mean to create a argument over this issue.  It will be what it will be as it marches on.


----------



## rcollinsny

lcml11 said:


> CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Point Status
> 2013 Total
> Travel From 	Expiration	Points Description	Points Available	Housekeeping
> Available
> Nov 13, 2012 	Oct 3, 2013 	Regular 	28,500	105
> Nov 13, 2012 	Oct 31, 2013 	Cancel 	5,780	0
> Jan 1, 2013 	Dec 31, 2013 	Regular 	650,750	909
> Jan 1, 2013 	Dec 31, 2013 	Cancel 	376,000	0
> 2014 Total
> Travel From 	Expiration	Points Description	Points Available	Housekeeping
> Available
> Jan 1, 2014 	Dec 31, 2014 	Regular 	1,011,000	1,011
> 
> Please note my Jan 1, 2013 regular use year points are 650,750 points.  Before the update they were 584,250.



I am definitely not trying to argue with you, just trying to fully understand how it is going to work. 

Based on your example, I think it is working as I understand it. Based on one of your earlier posts stating you should have received approx 80,000 adjustment points, you must have had approx 320,000 yearly points in your Oct 1 contract. So when adjusted, it would have added approx 80,000 points to your 2013 calendar year points representing the Oct-Dec points you would have received under the old fiscal year contract in Oct/2013. Where they came up with the 66,000 nobody knows. Maybe Wyndham is not making any adjustment to the computer generated adjustments now is because the computer may correct itself sometime before or by the 19th.


----------



## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> I am definitely not trying to argue with you, just trying to fully understand how it is going to work.
> 
> Based on your example, I think it is working as I understand it. Based on one of your earlier posts stating you should have received approx 80,000 adjustment points, you must have had approx 320,000 yearly points in your Oct 1 contract. So when adjusted, it would have added approx 80,000 points to your 2013 calendar year points representing the Oct-Dec points you would have received under the old fiscal year contract in Oct/2013. Where they came up with the 66,000 nobody knows. Maybe Wyndham is not making any adjustment to the computer generated adjustments now is because the computer may correct itself sometime before or by the 19th.



The rep I talked to indicated that the adjustments are still progressing system wide and they are not to make adjustments now.  The computer might catch up to itself.  She indicted that if my full adjusted amounts do not show up by Nov 19, they will then be able to add the missing adjustment points.

Have contracts that equaled 343,000 points for October 1st.  These plus the 66,500 points went to the January 1, 2013 use year.  The balance of the use years had no unaccounted for changes in them.

The following was taken from a screen shot prior to the roll-out.

2014 Total 
Travel From 	Expiration	Points Description	Points Available	Housekeeping 
Available
Oct 1, 2013 	Sep 30, 2014 	Regular 	343,000	343

343,000 points times .25 equals 85,750 points, according to my calculator.


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> The rep I talked to indicated that the adjustments are still progressing system wide and they are not to make adjustments now.  The computer might catch up to itself.  She indicted that if my full adjusted amounts do not show up by Nov 19, they will then be able to add the missing adjustment points.
> 
> Have contracts that equaled 343,000 points for October 1st.  These plus the 66,500 points went to the January 1, 2013 use year.  The balance of the use years had no unaccounted for changes in them.
> 
> The following was taken from a screen shot prior to the roll-out.
> 
> 2014 Total
> Travel From 	Expiration	Points Description	Points Available	Housekeeping
> Available
> Oct 1, 2013 	Sep 30, 2014 	Regular 	343,000	343
> 
> 343,000 points times .25 equals 85,750 points, according to my calculator.



85750 minus 66500 equals 19250.  19250 divided by 0.25 equals 77000.

Is there a 77000 point contract in the 343000 mix that might have been missed?

(This is like trying to put together a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle with 298 of the pieces missing).


----------



## lcml11

CO skier said:


> 85750 minus 66500 equals 19250.  19250 divided by 0.25 equals 77000.
> 
> Is there a 77000 point contract in the 343000 mix that might have been missed?
> 
> (This is like trying to put together a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle with 298 of the pieces missing).



You are truely a genus.  There is, in fact, a 77,000 point contract in this mix.  You hit the nail on the head.  One of my Oct 1st contracts got adjustment points and one did not.


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> You are truely a genus.  There is, in fact, a 77,000 point contract in this mix.  You hit the nail on the head.  One of my Oct 1st contracts got adjustment points and one did not.



I will send a PM with a PayPal account where you can send the $20 consulting fee.


----------



## rcollinsny

CO skier said:


> (This is like trying to put together a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle with 298 of the pieces missing).



What a perfect analogy!!! Kinda defines the whole Wyndham reservation system!!! Thanks for the laugh!! :hysterical:

Finally, the puzzle has been solved and everything is working as we thought!!


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> You are truely a genus.  There is, in fact, a 77,000 point contract in this mix.  You hit the nail on the head.  One of my Oct 1st contracts got adjustment points and one did not.



Could this mean that the computer is going through the process by the _Contract _and not by the _Member_?  If so, the OP with 10 contracts could be in for a wild ride.


----------



## lcml11

CO skier said:


> Could this mean that the computer is going through the process by the _Contract _and not by the _Member_?  If so, the OP with 10 contracts could be in for a wild ride.



Could be.  Just went to my ownership summary page and look what poped out:  Note the 77,000 point contract hanging out on the bottom.  This is one of my Smokey Mountain Contracts.

CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Contracts
Contract Number Use Year End Date Contract Type Points 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  December 31  UDI 266,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  December 31  UDI ALTERNATE YEAR EVEN 95,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  N/A  PIC 105,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  N/A  BON2 216,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  December 31  FIXED WEEK 154,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  December 31  FIXED WEEK 154,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  N/A  BON2 86,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  December 31  UDI ALTERNATE YEAR ODD 84,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  December 31  UDI 84,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  December 31  CLUB WYNDHAM Access 86,000 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx  September 30  UDI 77,000 

I guess this makes us even on the consulting fee.  Mine just balanced yours to zero.  Heck, the three of us make a great team. 


Looks like Myrtle Beach is done but not Smokey Mountain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## lcml11

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182377

I do not know, however, the above thread my have just idententified developer inventory that could be used to off-set the adjustments/compensation for the changing use years.


----------



## lcml11

The balance of my missing points showed up this morning.  Therefore, I now have my full complement of adjusted/compensation points and my full point quota for Jan 1, 2014.  There was no pro-rating, in my case.  

The possablity of an availability issue in 2013 as a result of the additional points flooding the system may not be as bad as I expected if Worldmark by Wyndham inventory that they got from Worldmark the Club gets used to support this roll-out.  It would even be better if the Shell unsold inventory gets thrown into the mix.

The DRI rumored take-over of Worldmark the Club, if true, might even result in additional inventory coming to Club Wyndham Plus from Worldmark by Wyndham.  I called DRI yesterday, and they would neither confirm nor deny the rumor.


----------



## am1

lcml11 said:


> The balance of my missing points showed up this morning.  Therefore, I now have my full complement of adjusted/compensation points and my full point quota for Jan 1, 2014.  There was no pro-rating, in my case.



But your 2014 use year starts later?


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> But your 2014 use year starts later?



If I understand what you are asking, the use years on all my contracts, except the PIC (I used the bonus year use year points already) start January 1, 2014.


CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Point Status
2013 Total 
Travel From 	Expiration	Points Description	Points Available	Housekeeping 
Available
Nov 14, 2012 	Oct 3, 2013 	Regular 	23,250	105
Nov 14, 2012 	Oct 31, 2013 	Cancel 	5,780	0
Jan 1, 2013 	Dec 31, 2013 	Regular 	670,000	929
Jan 1, 2013 	Dec 31, 2013 	Cancel 	381,250	0
2014 Total 
Travel From 	Expiration	Points Description	Points Available	Housekeeping 
Available
Jan 1, 2014 	Dec 31, 2014 	Regular 	1,011,000	1,011


----------



## am1

lcml11 said:


> If I understand what you are asking, the use years on all my contracts, except the PIC (I used the bonus year use year points already) start January 1, 2014.



And it use to start earlier?  The points you were given were just to make up the difference.  You will not get a full year of points for a period of over a year since you last got a full year of points.


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> And it use to start earlier?  The points you were given were just to make up the difference.  You will not get a full year of points for a period of over a year since you last got a full year of points.



Not going to argue, I posted the figures, in my case, I net uped the 25 percent on the Oct 1, 2013 use year on the combined 2013/2014 point totals.


----------



## rcollinsny

It is working as everyone thought, "adjustment" points are being added to the January 1, 2013 points allocation for calendar year conversions.

One of our owners we assist in managing their points had his 7/1 500,000 point contract merged into his calendar year contract and 250,000 points were added to his 1/1/2013 allocation.

2014 now shows the total of both contracts on one line as a calendar year.


----------



## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> It is working as everyone thought, "adjustment" points are being added to the January 1, 2013 points allocation for calendar year conversions.
> 
> One of our owners we assist in managing their points had his 7/1 500,000 point contract merged into his calendar year contract and 250,000 points were added to his 1/1/2013 allocation.
> 
> 2014 now shows the total of both contracts on one line as a calendar year.



Thanks for the update.


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> Not going to argue, I posted the figures, in my case, I net uped the 25 percent on the Oct 1, 2013 use year on the combined 2013/2014 point totals.



You received 343,000 for Oct. 1, 2012 to Sept. 30, 2013.  Once that last 77,000 contract is updated, you will have received 85750 (343000 times 0.25) prorated points for Oct. 1, 2013 to December 31, 2013.  On Jan 1, 2014 and every Jan 1 after that you will receive the 343,000 points.  There is not a  single "bonus" point in any of this.

You are receiving the 85750 points now for use until Dec. 31, 2013, but that makes it an "advance," not a bonus.

Despite the Wynham spin, no one is gaining any points from this re-alignment.  There are no "additional points flooding the system" in 2013; it is all a zero sum.  There may be more competition for summer weeks and less for December holiday weeks, for example, because people do not want to risk having to cancel a week so late in their use year, but this is a usage issue, not a "too many points in 2013" issue.


----------



## lcml11

A advance that never gets paid back.  

The earlier discussions on Credit Pool, rolling points forward, RCI, etc.  laid out options for the use of the windfall points.

The receipants of these points can use these points with a wide degree of latatude through the use of the Credit Pool and borrowed points features to move the windfall points pretty much where they want over a two year period (plus the balance of this year).

The net effect is probably going to be three fold:

1.  For those accounts that have a significant number of points moved forward, they will likely need to be used by December 31, 2013, thereby, increasing presure on availablity.

2.  Getting only a percentage of the points that would have been available in Oct to Dec quarter will have the effect of withdrawing some otherwise available points from the quarter.

3.  Having the additional points show up in 2014 will probably have the effect of increasing presure on availability in 2014.  However, this effect could disappear quick fast and in a hurry if the renter bees decide to grab good reservations as fast as they can through the transistion period.  If this happens, then the impact would not be pretty for 2013 and, I would think a great business move.  A bird in hand ....


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> A advance that never gets paid back.
> 
> The earlier discussions on Credit Pool, rolling points forward, RCI, etc.  laid out options for the use of the windfall points.
> 
> The receipants of these points can use these points with a wide degree of latatude through the use of the Credit Pool and borrowed points features to move the windfall points pretty much where they want over a two year period (plus the balance of this year).



The "advance" is paid back when the points are used.  Or another way to think of it, in your case, is that the advance is paid back next Oct. 1 - Dec. 31st, 2013 when no points are awarded for what used to be an Oct-Sept use year.  There is no bonus; there is no windfall; sadly, Wyndham is not Santa Claus.

As for the use of Credit Pooling, borrowed points, RCI, etc., these are all things that could have been done with the points before the re-alignment.  The advance of points does not change anything.


----------



## capital city

There is no advance or bonus of points. I look at more as theft then a bonus. Since Wyndham charges jan-dec regardless of when u get your points. If you have a July-june use year they are still collecting all year but only giving u half your points and come January when u finally get your full allotment they will send u another mf bill. They should have brought all contracts forward to meet with their billing cycle


----------



## CO skier

rcollinsny said:


> One of our owners we assist in managing their points had his 7/1 500,000 point contract merged into his calendar year contract and 250,000 points were added to his 1/1/2013 allocation.
> 
> 2014 now shows the total of both contracts on one line as a calendar year.



The contracts were not merged.  The point totals are combined on the "Points Status" page, but the "Ownership Summary" page will still show them as separate contracts, just with all the Use Year End Dates aligned.


----------



## Rent_Share

Perhaps a new thread listing all of the Take Aways since the change in the RCI deposits ?


----------



## Carol C

pacodemountainside said:


> You are sadly mistaken on how CWA operates and your woes not due to it.  Each  resort has so many units converted to  symbolic points.
> 
> If I buy  say a 154 point CWA contract and Wyndham deposits  with CWA then there are 154K points at that resort available to all CWA owners on first comes, first gets. Sure, any   ONE owing  154K  CWA points at one of around 56 resorts can book there  at 13 month point. Once  my 154K points are gone CWA owners are SOL.
> 
> Also,  CWA points are spread over year to prevent CWA owners from all booking  prime or  special event week.
> 
> As a CWA owner I can guarantee if I call red hot resort at say 12 month mark they will say no availability while  plenty of ARP.



Are you saying my ARP at Wyn Old Town Alexandria still has value and will definitely take preference over any CWA that calls the same day I do, at the 13 month point when I would call in to get a plum ressie?


----------



## CO skier

capital city said:


> There is no advance or bonus of points. I look at more as theft then a bonus. Since Wyndham charges jan-dec regardless of when u get your points. If you have a July-june use year they are still collecting all year but only giving u half your points and come January when u finally get your full allotment they will send u another mf bill. They should have brought all contracts forward to meet with their billing cycle



No, but this thinking could support Wyndham's contention that this re-alignment improves the ownership experience; i.e., at least now the use years and billing cycle years are aligned.

For someone with a 300k July-June use year, in Jan 2011 they paid annual dues and received 150k for the first half of the year (the prorated amount of the current use year) plus 150k of the next use year.  In 2012, same thing.  In Jan 2013 they will pay annual dues and receive 150k for the first half, and they already have the 150k for the second half (the Nov. 19th "advance").  In Jan 2014 they pay annual dues and receive all 300k for the year.  No theft, no bonus.


----------



## capital city

CO skier said:


> No, but this thinking could support Wyndham's contention that this re-alignment improves the ownership experience; i.e., at least now the use years and billing cycle years are aligned.
> 
> For someone with a 300k July-June use year, in Jan 2011 they paid annual dues and received 150k for the first half of the year (the prorated amount of the current use year) plus 150k of the next use year.  In 2012, same thing.  In Jan 2013 they will pay annual dues and receive 150k for the first half, and they already have the 150k for the second half (the Nov. 19th "advance").  In Jan 2014 they pay annual dues and receive all 300k for the year.  No theft, no bonus.



I bought resale and my dues start jan but no points till July


----------



## bnoble

> I bought resale and my dues start jan but no points till July


That's a matter between you and the seller.


----------



## ronparise

Carol C said:


> Are you saying my ARP at Wyn Old Town Alexandria still has value and will definitely take preference over any CWA that calls the same day I do, at the 13 month point when I would call in to get a plum ressie?



Its not a preference exactly you will each be drawing from a different pool of availability

Some units at OldTown are in the CWA inventory pool and reserved for CWA owners. The rest is in the "regular" pool reserved for deeded Old Town owners

My sense is that there is a lot more "regular" inventory reserved for Old Town owners, than CWA inventory. and a lot fewer deeded Old town owners than CWA owners;  so in that sense you have a better shot at getting what you want

If I wanted ARP at a particular resoer Id be buying a deeded ownership at that resort, rather than a CWA membership


----------



## ronparise

bnoble said:


> That's a matter between you and the seller.



No its not between you and the seller

If you choose to pay dues on a monthly basis, you pay Jan -Dec. and I think that even if you pay on an annual basis, the fees are due Jan 1. This is true no matter the Use Year and a seller has no way to override that


----------



## capital city

bnoble said:


> That's a matter between you and the seller.



The way I understood it was Wyndham charges jan-dec regardless of use year


----------



## CO skier

capital city said:


> I bought resale and my dues start jan but no points till July



I understand your point.  My previous illustration is most applicable for someone who was the original owner.  For resales, it would depend on when the purchase is made versus when the MF are due.

When you bought resale, either you or the previous owner paid for the Prorated Jan.-June points.  

1)  If you purchased after the Jan. dues were paid, then you pay dues halfway through your use year, and the previous owner paid for the prorated Jan.-July points, and my previous illustration applies.

2)  If you purchased before the Jan. dues were paid and you had to pay them, then yes, you are 6 months "behind" your use year, and you paid the Jan.-June prorated points in the year purchased.  (Essentially, the previous owner got 6 months of free points).  That is not Wyndham's fault.  When such a Use Year is re-aligned to a calendar year, Wyndham is not "stealing" 6 months of points; the previous owner did when the resale was sold.


----------



## regatta333

Rent_Share said:


> Perhaps a new thread listing all of the Take Aways since the change in the RCI deposits ?



I still remember the days when we were able to make ARP deposits to RCI.
Booking at one of your home resorts 13 months in advance gave you 13 months + 2 years to use that deposit.  When Wyndham put a stop to that,
many owners who requested searchable deposits were given last-minute inventory that Wyndham had deposited to RCI which had terrible trading power.

It's been one thing after another since then.


----------



## Carol C

ronparise said:


> I understood that CWA inventory and UDI inventory were in separate buckets for ARP
> 
> So, if at a hypothetical 150 unit resort,   50 units are sold into CWA and 100 UDI,  the 5000 UDI owners can ARP into the 100 units. And the universe of CWA owners can ARP into 50 units
> 
> ...To be sure,  its as if he owns at a smaller resort but the odds that a UDI owner will get the reservation he wants doesnt change because some of the units are in CWA
> 
> If  Im right about the separate buckets, I dont see how the number of CWA owners changes anything regarding ARP



Ron...would the HOA have the numbers for the UDI and the CWA "buckets"? I sure would like to know where I stand at Old Town...with a UDI/ARP I'd like to use effectively. Thx!


----------



## Carol C

pacodemountainside said:


> This reminds me of  uproar when  Wyndham/RCI eliminated the 28K reservation  " loophole".  All of  us using this perk which  was pointed out to us by a friendly Wyndham salesperson got our oxes gored.
> 
> 
> John has hit the nail on head why Wyndham  will keep squeezing  us owners.
> 
> The VOI Trust  was created in 1991. Today is has around 500K members.
> 
> Actually  Wyndham ownership was as follows:
> 
> 2009   515K
> 
> 2010   519K
> 
> 2011   523K
> 
> These numbers include  fixed week owners.
> 
> So,   to make  math easy   Wyndham was   adding around 25K owner  a year (500K divided by 20 years).
> However for last two years just 4K each.
> 
> So, take VIP  benefits which cost Wyndham $12 million cash  in 2011.  Spreading this over 4K owners equals about $3K per new owner.  When selling 25K a year it works out to about $480.
> 
> Doing similar allocation for  other expenses, especially RTS and  profit has to be impacted.
> 
> Think increase in transfer fee from $100 to $299 and making applicable to fixed weeks.
> 
> Thinking small stuff they used to have  soft drinks and cookies in waiting area and lunch or breakfast was SOP.
> 
> I sure don't see things  improving!



Don't forget the expensive guest certificate fees once your allocated freebies are used up. Makes it kinda hard to rent out Wyndham vacations to friends, relatives and co-workers when you have to tack on $99 to the actual pts cost not to mention your purchase cost as a factor (forget it if you think you'll be compensated for your own time on all this!)


----------



## ronparise

Carol C said:


> Ron...would the HOA have the numbers for the UDI and the CWA "buckets"? I sure would like to know where I stand at Old Town...with a UDI/ARP I'd like to use effectively. Thx!



They have the numbers but they wont tell me...I asked. I even went to the annual CWA meeting and asked there...no one will tell me. 

My interest is at La belle Maison.  The best info I can get is that the CWA target is 25% but I dont know if that really true, or where they are now


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> No its not between you and the seller
> 
> If you choose to pay dues on a monthly basis, you pay Jan -Dec. and I think that even if you pay on an annual basis, the fees are due Jan 1. This is true no matter the Use Year and a seller has no way to override that



Even though the annual MF is due in Jan., the purchase price can be negotiated to account for the 6 month difference between the Jan. dues and the July start date of the points.

It is easier to understand if the MF are paid monthly.  If someone is purchasing a timeshare in Nov. that has monthly MF due, no points available and usage does not start until the following July, is the buyer going to want to pay dues from Nov. to June for nothing in return?  Probably not unless they really, really want that timeshare, so it is easy to understand how to adjust the purchase price to reflect the MF that is due until usage starts in July.  It is exactly the same situation, just a bit harder to understand, when the purchase is made in Nov., the annual MF is due in Jan. and paid by the buyer (now owner), and the usage does not start until July.

I think this is what is meant by, "it is between [the buyer] and seller"; i.e., who pays for the Nov. - June MF.


----------



## bnoble

> No its not between you and the seller


But, if the seller used all points up through June 2012, surely the buyer could have negotiated different terms on that resale, no?

Edited to add: or, just what CO skier said.  Yes, that is exactly what I meant.


----------



## rcollinsny

ronparise said:


> They have the numbers but they wont tell me...I asked. I even went to the annual CWA meeting and asked there...no one will tell me.
> 
> My interest is at La belle Maison.  The best info I can get is that the CWA target is 25% but I dont know if that really true, or where they are now



Anyway you slice it or spin it, the original resort home owner has less inventory to choose from and more owners competing for the original amount of availability.

for example, if La Belle Maison had 200 units in it's original inventory and 25% of those are made available to CWA, then the original owners now only have 150 units among the same number of original owners plus the throng of CWA owners are grabbing all of the other pool. This is exactly what is happening at La Belle Maison since it is such a high demand resort.


----------



## capital city

If 25% is in cwa then wouldn't 25% of the original deeds need to be placed in it? 25% less inventory and 25% less original owners/deeds


----------



## Rent_Share

rcollinsny said:


> Anyway you slice it or spin it, the original resort home owner has less inventory to choose from and more owners competing for the original amount of availability..


 
And less owners competing for that inventory, the probability of getting the reservation stays the same



rcollinsny said:


> for example, if La Belle Maison had 200 units in it's original inventory and 25% of those are made available to CWA, then the original owners now only have 150 units among the same number of original owners plus the throng of CWA owners are grabbing all of the other pool. This is exactly what is happening at La Belle Maison since it is such a high demand resort.


 

Yes there are less weeks available, but there are proportionately fewer owners competing for those available weeks

Using your numbers and assuming all requested at 13 Months

Assuming 50 weeks per unit (simple arithmetic)

200 Units = 10,000 Owners
2 % Probability of getting any specific week 200/10,000 = 2 %

Transfer 50 Units to CWA - Through Default, deed back, unsold inventory

150 Units = 7,500 Owners
2 % Probability of getting any specific week 150/7,500 = 2 %

As to the 50 units no longer available, now everyone with ownership in to CWA at all 50 + resorts are entitled to try to get into those 50 units, their probablility is much less than 2 %


----------



## ronparise

rcollinsny said:


> Anyway you slice it or spin it, the original resort home owner has less inventory to choose from and more owners competing for the original amount of availability.
> 
> for example, if La Belle Maison had 200 units in it's original inventory and 25% of those are made available to CWA, then the original owners now only have 150 units among the same number of original owners plus the throng of CWA owners are grabbing all of the other pool. This is exactly what is happening at La Belle Maison since it is such a high demand resort.



I dont think you are looking at this right. CWA doesnt take anything away from UDI owners

if as in your example there is a resort with 200 units and its all udi then you could have 10000 owners (200 units, 50 weeks) competing for one week or you could say each owner has  a 2% chance of scoring

If this resort has 150 UDI units and 50 CWA units Then there can be only 7500 UDI owners. and they will have exactly the same 2% chance of getting one of those prime weeks...

same-O ; same-0

The reason you may have done better with certain weeks at certain resorts in the past is that they were only partially sold out..and now they are closer to completely sold out....

Its the CWA owners that have been sold a bill of goods, as its they that are part of an enormous group competing for just a few prime weeks


----------



## ronparise

now thats a first 

David and I agree on something


----------



## CO skier

Duplicate post


----------



## rcollinsny

Rent_Share said:


> And less owners competing for that inventory, the probability of getting the reservation stays the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there are less weeks available, but there are proportionately fewer owners competing for those available weeks
> 
> Using your numbers and assuming all requested at 13 Months
> 
> Assuming 50 weeks per unit (simple arithmetic)
> 
> 200 Units = 10,000 Owners
> 2 % Probability of getting any specific week 200/10,000 = 2 %
> 
> Transfer 50 Units to CWA - Through Default, deed back, unsold inventory
> 
> 150 Units = 7,500 Owners
> 2 % Probability of getting any specific week 150/7,500 = 2 %
> 
> As to the 50 units no longer available, now everyone with ownership in to CWA at all 50 + resorts are entitled to try to get into those 50 units, their probablility is much less than 2 %



Unless I am totally confused by how this works which has a high probability of being the case, you are making a huge assumption in that 25% of the La Belle Maison ownership has been converted to CWA. If that is the case, then your statements are accurate. But that would mean that the percentage of the inventory going into the CWA pool is driven purely by the percentage of converted owners at a specific resort. Does that mean that the resorts which have NO owners converting to CWA will not have any CWA inventory? I doubt that the formula is that clean and the original owners are being that protected!! Afterall, this is Wyndham and the owners are the last ones in Wyndham's protective thought process!!


----------



## CO skier

rcollinsny said:


> Unless I am totally confused by how this works which has a high probability of being the case, you are making a huge assumption in that 25% of the La Belle Maison ownership has been converted to CWA. If that is the case, then your statements are accurate. But that would mean that the percentage of the inventory going into the CWA pool is driven purely by the percentage of converted owners at a specific resort. Does that mean that the resorts which have NO owners converting to CWA will not have any CWA inventory? I doubt that the formula is that clean and the original owners are being that protected!! Afterall, this is Wyndham and the owners are the last ones in Wyndham's protective thought process!!



"... the percentage of the inventory going into the CWA pool is driven purely by the percentage of converted owners at a specific resort."

For ARP at 10-13 months, that is correct.

"Does that mean that the resorts which have NO owners converting to CWA will not have any CWA inventory?"

For ARP at 10-13 months, that is correct.


----------



## CO skier

"Last edited by rcollinsny; November 14, 2012 at 02:05 PM.  Reason: Based on the posts ..."

Sorry, it looks like I was replying while you were editing.


----------



## vacationhopeful

There are about 50 CWA resorts. La Belle Maison was one of the new resorts WHERE a BLOCK of units were transferred directly to Club Wyndham Access. This was a block of ownership. Whether it was UDI points or specfic unit numbers, I do not know. And I know Ron is smart enough to have ask all the right questions of the BOD everywheres to uncover this mystery. I believe it is a guard security at Wyndham (perhaps all the better to fudge the books).

MOST of the other inventory in CWA is deed fixed weeks converted to UDI points. The ARP for that inventory is the underlying fixed week own by CWA. It older resorts, mostly off-season stuff that was foreclosured or returned on upgrade trades. This supports the sales goal to SELL more points and Wyndham stuff the CWA inventory coffers.

The 2nd source of inventory is ==> Wyndham thru it management of these resorts got these BOD to SIGN exclusive sales of this inventory to them --- which they then are selling to CWA. For $1 per deed. The HOAs are still paying the foreclousure costs and the non-paid MFs UNTIL Wyndham requests MORE inventory. And I also understand Wyndham cherry picks the inventory. 

And my source was a Wyndham resort manager at the time I was asking these questions ... And the answers could have changed at any point in time.

The only historical place I know of with mixed buckets of inventory within Wyndham before CWA, was Daytona Ocean Walk (and Worldmark). Those are deeded units on floors ONLY with Worldmark inventory.


----------



## Carol C

*Just now got their email notice...*

...glad they're "pleased" but we're not, and thus I call for as many TUGgers as possible to make a stand next "owners" meeting in Orlando. Hey maybe we can even get back the right to sell out Wyn pts to other Wyn members! :whoopie:


----------



## Pietin

How will this affect the purchase of resale contracts in the future?


----------



## Rent_Share

Carol C said:


> Hey maybe we can even get back the right to sell out Wyn pts to other Wyn members! :whoopie:


 

And 28,000 Deposits, and guaranteed cancel rebook in the 60 day window and unlimited free guest certificates and the ability to cheat the system by never having the points expire if I have more than on use year in my collection of contracts


----------



## lcml11

Pietin said:


> How will this affect the purchase of resale contracts in the future?



I think other market factors will override the effect of this change.


----------



## Pietin

lcml11 said:


> I think other market factors will override the effect of this change.



I mean, if my year use is moved, as it will be,  and I buy a resale that is a April, July, or October will that contract be adjusted?  It appears that only contract with mulitiple year use are be adjusted out.


----------



## lcml11

Pietin said:


> I mean, if my year use is moved, as it will be,  and I buy a resale that is a April, July, or October will that contract be adjusted?  It appears that only contract with mulitiple year use are be adjusted out.



Presumably, your use year date, I am guessing, is now January 1st.  All new contracts, re-sale or otherwise, would probably be that date.  You could give Owner Care a call.  It appears they are starting to get information on the impacts of the roll-out.  I would think a lot of the re-sale contracts that hit the market after the roll-out will have already been adjusted to January 1st.


----------



## Pietin

I had read on this thread that year use for fixed weeks is Jan 1.  I have a converted fixed week at Pagosa that has (had) a October year use.  

When we attended the sale update at Glacier Canyon at the end of October we were told that our contract had been flagged to have the year use consolidated.  Just got the email on Wednesday.  

I hope this make life simpler


----------



## lcml11

Pietin said:


> I had read on this thread that year use for fixed weeks is Jan 1.  I have a converted fixed week at Pagosa that has (had) a October year use.
> 
> When we attended the sale update at Glacier Canyon at the end of October we were told that our contract had been flagged to have the year use consolidated.  Just got the email on Wednesday.
> 
> I hope this make life simpler



If you have not checked your owners summary screen this morning, you may want to to see if it updated yet, they do the updates overnight by batches, apparently.  Did sales indicated what the consoladated date would be?


----------



## BigRedOne

Things like this are why I have never trusted Fairfield/Wyndham.  It is also why I have never liked or trusted the point system.  Everything used to be simple, buy a fixed week, use it every year or deposit it with RCI then trade for another resort. When the original RCI was bought out by Fairfield/Wyndham things started to become very complicated and the timeshare business has been a challenge ever since.  My RCI membership expires in 2014 and I most likely will not renew and possibly just give my timeshare away.


----------



## bogey21

BigRedOne said:


> Everything used to be simple, buy a fixed week, use it every year or deposit it with RCI then trade for another resort. When the original RCI was bought out by Fairfield/Wyndham things started to become very complicated and the timeshare business has been a challenge ever since.  My RCI membership expires in 2014 and I most likely will not renew and possibly just give my timeshare away.



Actually I think the problem started with the sale of Floating Weeks.  I tried the concept buying Floating Weeks at Marriott Sabal Palms, Harbour Club and Heritage Club.  Somewhere back 10 or 15 years ago I sold my Marriott Floaters and bought Fixed Weeks at HOA controlled Independent Resorts (I kept my Marriott Monarch Fixed Week a lot longer).  I also became disenchanted with RCI and let my RCI Memberships (Weeks and Points) lapse.  

George


----------



## Pietin

lcml11 said:


> If you have not checked your owners summary screen this morning, you may want to to see if it updated yet, they do the updates overnight by batches, apparently.  Did sales indicated what the consoladated date would be?



No they haven't been updated yet.  I am wondering if that is why my resale point are taking a while.  Wyndham has had the deed for about 6 weeks, and said if would be about three more.  The sales rep at GC was trying to sell us on 77K points for $12K, I didn't have the hearth to tell him that I bought 182K for $305.00 out the door on ebay in August.  I guess if I bought retail I would have had them by now.


----------



## lcml11

Pietin said:


> No they haven't been updated yet.  I am wondering if that is why my resale point are taking a while.  Wyndham has had the deed for about 6 weeks, and said if would be about three more.  The sales rep at GC was trying to sell us on 77K points for $12K, I didn't have the hearth to tell him that I bought 182K for $305.00 out the door on ebay in August.  I guess if I bought retail I would have had them by now.



Not necessarily, Wyndham Title has not been known to made a habit of being fast.  Retail or re-sale.


----------



## d2r4s

*I like it*

I got my notice along with an extra 150,000 points.  Its never been a problem with rolling points or even better putting them in RCI for two years.  Have to say that I own a lot with Wyndham and other time shares, but between our use, my kids and friends and employees we manage to use them up somehow.:whoopie:


----------



## scootr5

Well, I got the email and they adjusted my points and years overnight. They placed 58,250 points and 60 HK credits in my 2013 UY, for moving one 78000 point July and one 77000 point October to calendar years.

Interestingly, I also had 60 HK credits in the pool with no points attached to them that had 3/18/2015 expiration date, and they combined those HK credits with more pooled points and HK credits with a 10/28/2015 expiration.


----------



## Pietin

Ouch!!!  I would have received my 154k in April and 231K in October but instead for this year I only get 173K .  Seem like Wyndham made out we my maintenance fee for this year. There is no reduction there.  I was thought that maintenance fee were paid in the year you receive then point. So if   I started paying in January the and received my points in April then those were the fee I was paying but I am not getting those point to January of 2014 then I am paying on a year of point for nothing?  Or am I just confused?


----------



## lcml11

Pietin said:


> Ouch!!!  I would have received my 154k in April and 231K in October but instead for this year I only get 173K .  Seem like Wyndham made out we my maintenance fee for this year. There is no reduction there.  I was thought that maintenance fee were paid in the year you receive then point. So if   I started paying in January the and received my points in April then those were the fee I was paying but I am not getting those point to January of 2014 then I am paying on a year of point for nothing?  Or am I just confused?



I am assuming you are a EOY owner with a even use year date.  Did your owner summary screan update yet?  If so, see if they showed up in January 2014.


----------



## ronparise

Pietin said:


> Ouch!!!  I would have received my 154k in April and 231K in October but instead for this year I only get 173K .  Seem like Wyndham made out we my maintenance fee for this year. There is no reduction there.  I was thought that maintenance fee were paid in the year you receive then point. So if   I started paying in January the and received my points in April then those were the fee I was paying but I am not getting those point to January of 2014 then I am paying on a year of point for nothing?  Or am I just confused?



sounds like you got exactly the right number of points

154 x .75 = 115.5
231 x .25 = 57

total          172.5


----------



## capital city

Pietin said:


> Ouch!!!  I would have received my 154k in April and 231K in October but instead for this year I only get 173K .  Seem like Wyndham made out we my maintenance fee for this year. There is no reduction there.  I was thought that maintenance fee were paid in the year you receive then point. So if   I started paying in January the and received my points in April then those were the fee I was paying but I am not getting those point to January of 2014 then I am paying on a year of point for nothing?  Or am I just confused?



You got the points you were supposed to but yes I think were getting screwed. They bill you in January so I would think they would pull your contracts up to Jan 2013 not push it back to Jan 2014 and give you prorated points when they are not prorating the mf. 

I just bought a deed with a July use year and have no other deeds to my name so I will let everyone know if they are pushing back all new transfers as well in about 6 weeks.


----------



## pacodemountainside

Pietin said:


> No they haven't been updated yet.  I am wondering if that is why my resale point are taking a while.  Wyndham has had the deed for about 6 weeks, and said if would be about three more.  The sales rep at GC was trying to sell us on 77K points for $12K, I didn't have the hearth to tell him that I bought 182K for $305.00 out the door on ebay in August.  I guess if I bought retail I would have had them by now.



Since Wyndham gets $299 to  do paper work which is probably  a few minutes clerical time, it is obvious  months to do is to make life difficult for resale purchasers.

Just like mail in rebates  take 10-12 weeks.

The  whole idea  in going to sales pitch is getting $100 or ???,  wasting sales person time and  telling him/her you only by resale and laugh!:hysterical:

This along with rescissions  at some point has to get through to Main Man his business model is screwed up. Shoot if Wyndham just offered  10% of purchase price for owners wanting to get rid of  they would  immediately exterminate  PCC guys, dent resale  scammers    and  eliminate a lot of negative publicity.

4-5 years ago Wyndham was  seducing  around 25K new victims  a year.  In 2010 and 2011 they only  procured  4K. Sure economy is primarily  responsible but word is getting out!

,


----------



## bogey21

ronparise said:


> sounds like you got exactly the right number of points
> 
> 154 x .75 = 115.5
> 231 x .25 = 57
> 
> total          172.5



Owner doesn't have to be happy about it though.

George


----------



## MFT

*I'm Confused*

Okay, I thought they were taking my contracts that start in 2013, and pulling them back to Jan 1.  My issue is I had an 84K contract which was July 1 2012 - June 30 2013.  Well, they have lumped my 2013, added around 22K additional points, and started it for Jan 1 2013.  But my current 2012 points in this contract is gone!  Am I missing something about this transition (other than my points???).


----------



## scootr5

MFT said:


> Okay, I thought they were taking my contracts that start in 2013, and pulling them back to Jan 1.  My issue is I had an 84K contract which was July 1 2012 - June 30 2013.  Well, they have lumped my 2013, added around 22K additional points, and started it for Jan 1 2013.  But my current 2012 points in this contract is gone!  Am I missing something about this transition (other than my points???).



They are not pulling them back, they are pushing them forward. If I'm understanding correctly, you should have the same points you had for 7/1/2012-6/30/2013 now showing for 1/1/2012-12/31/2012, plus 50%.


----------



## CO skier

Pietin said:


> Ouch!!!  I would have received my 154k in April and 231K in October but instead for this year I only get 173K .  Seem like Wyndham made out we my maintenance fee for this year. There is no reduction there.  I was thought that maintenance fee were paid in the year you receive then point. So if   I started paying in January the and received my points in April then those were the fee I was paying but I am not getting those point to January of 2014 then I am paying on a year of point for nothing?  Or am I just confused?



The maintenance fee you pay in Jan 2013 for the 154k March 30 Use Year is for April 1, 2012-March 30, 2013 usage.  Similarly, the Jan 2013 maintenance fee for the 231k September Use Year is for October 1, 2012-September 30, 2013 usage.  (If you do not understand why this is the case, refer to post #223, and think of it in terms of monthly maintenance fees instead of an annual fee).  You have received the prorated amount for both contracts to carry these contracts to Dec. 31, 2013.  In Jan 2014 you pay the maintenance fee for both contracts for Jan 1, 2014-Dec. 31, 2014 usage.  You did not lose a single point; you are not "paying on a year of point for nothing."



capital city said:


> They bill you in January so I would think they would pull your contracts up to Jan 2013 not push it back to Jan 2014 and give you prorated points when they are not prorating the mf.



The maintenance fee you pay in Jan 2013 for the June 30 Use Year is for July 1, 2012-June 30, 2013 usage.  (If you do not understand why this is the case, refer to post #223, and think of it in terms of monthly maintenance fees instead of an annual fee).  Since your transfer is pending, presumably, you will receive the prorated amount to carry this contract to Dec. 31, 2013.  In Jan 2014 you pay the maintenance fee for Jan 1, 2014-Dec. 31, 2014 usage.

Wyndham is not prorating the MF, because they are prorating and awarding points based on the MF paid.  No one is getting "short-changed" on their points, and no one is getting "bonus" points.


----------



## lcml11

CO skier said:


> The maintenance fee you pay in Jan 2013 for the 154k March 30 Use Year is for April 1, 2012-March 30, 2013 usage.  Similarly, the Jan 2013 maintenance fee for the 231k September Use Year is for October 1, 2012-September 30, 2013 usage.  (If you do not understand why this is the case, refer to post #223, and think of it in terms of monthly maintenance fees instead of an annual fee).  You have received the prorated amount for both contracts to carry these contracts to Dec. 31, 2013.  In Jan 2014 you pay the maintenance fee for both contracts for Jan 1, 2014-Dec. 31, 2014 usage.  You did not lose a single point; you are not "paying on a year of point for nothing."
> 
> The maintenance fee you pay in Jan 2013 for the June 30 Use Year is for July 1, 2012-June 30, 2013 usage.  (If you do not understand why this is the case, refer to post #223, and think of it in terms of monthly maintenance fees instead of an annual fee).  Since your transfer is pending, presumably, you will receive the prorated amount to carry this contract to Dec. 31, 2013.  In Jan 2014 you pay the maintenance fee for Jan 1, 2014-Dec. 31, 2014 usage.
> 
> Wyndham is not prorating the MF, because they are prorating and awarding points based on the MF paid.  No one is getting "short-changed" on their points, and no one is getting "bonus" points.



I think I understand now, basically what you are saying is that Wyndham just sold the affected parties a one time sale of points to off-set what credit balances that were occuring as a result of various use year dates until they were applied to the appropriate use year dates.


----------



## CO skier

lcml11 said:


> I think I understand now, basically what you are saying is that Wyndham just sold the affected parties a one time sale of points to off-set what credit balances that were occuring as a result of various use year dates until they were applied to the appropriate use year dates.



Wyndham didn't sell anyone anything as part of this re-alignment.  I have no idea what your statement means.


----------



## Larry M

*Loophole? Or unethical unilateral change of agreement*



Sandy VDH said:


> ... However I see it as a shortcoming and not a right.
> 
> I can see getting annoyed about losing a loophole that has been in place for sometime, but it is indeed a loophole, and not an new business rule change.
> 
> I have had other loopholes that I have used from time to time, but I see them as loopholes I can exploit.



Sandy, you make some good points about bookkeeping and the technology behind it. But the unfortunate fact is that Wyndham has a sad history of unilaterally changing the rules of the game.

My mother-in-law was sold a fixed week in the ever-popular location at Fairfield Bay, Arkansas in 1991. The salesperson assured her that it didn't matter where she bought or that it was too far away to drive to and too difficult to fly to because she could always exchange it easily for a minimal fee. She was presented with a glossy catalog of sites she could exchange to (I still have it.).

Unfortunately, as time passed, Fairfield and their successors, Wyndham, changed the rules, using the boiling frog technique. First there were fewer and fewer resorts available for exchanging in the annual catalog. Then the exchange fees started creeping up. The catalogs stopped coming--you had to use a slow and cumbersome website to exchange and then race to an 8:00 phone call to complete the transaction. Then about three years ago, the water got so hot the frog could not leap out as Wyndham sent a letter (come to think of it, it was this time of year) stating that the exchange option was never a contract feature, just a revokable perk that was being unilaterally revoked.

You might consider yourself an owner but you have no rights in how your property may be used or exchanged.

This was not how the property was sold, nor how it was managed for a precedent-setting 15 or more years. You can call it a loophole if you like, but I'll call it slimy and sleazy.

Larry
No more Wyndham for me.


----------



## bogey21

Larry M said:


> Sandy, you make some good points about bookkeeping and the technology behind it. But the unfortunate fact is that Wyndham has a sad history of unilaterally changing the rules of the game.



I had a similar experience with Marriott and I suspect others have had similar issues with the other corporate giants.

George


----------



## bnoble

> Loophole? Or unethical unilateral change of agreement


Well, it is sort of both.

The ability to cancel-forward is clearly a loophole in the way the reservation system was implemented.  I can't see any rational argument that suggests that one should be able to indefinitely extend the life of points as was possible with overlapping use years.

On the other hand, the re-alignment of use years is absolutely a unilateral change.  I'm not sure it's an unethical one---anyone who has read the VOA Trust documents and the Directory is aware that the VOA Board can change the terms of the Trust/Directory at any time.  Anyone who has done more than 10 minutes of research into Wyndham knows that the VOA Board is run, lock stock and barrel, by Wyndham.

This is why many of us repeatedly warn folks who e.g. want to buy VIP at retail with a 10-year payoff horizon.  The rules can and do change---and rarely in favor of someone trying to squeeze value out of the system.


----------



## lcml11

*Multiple Use Years Post Nov 19, 2012*

I am under the new use year consolidation.  I have come out of the change with three surving use years.

Jan 1

My PIC use year

My Bonus Points use year

The cancelled points went to my use year that had the experation date the furthest in the future.


----------



## Sandi Bo

*No clue what's going on*

Were it not for this bulletin board, I would be clueness to any changes going on.

I have received no communication (email or snail mail).  My account has not been adjustment.  

I called (3 times -- with Wyndham you never get the same answer twice).  All agreed my account would be affected, all said in different ways, nothing has happened.  Last person said I can keep my March use year but I have to wait until after Nov 19 for them to make any changes, if they are needed.  I have her name, and she notated my account. That's the best I can do.

Hoping for the best (that nothing happens) and taking screen shots daily.


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> Were it not for this bulletin board, I would be clueness to any changes going on.
> 
> I have received no communication (email or snail mail).  My account has not been adjustment.
> 
> I called (3 times -- with Wyndham you never get the same answer twice).  All agreed my account would be affected, all said in different ways, nothing has happened.  Last person said I can keep my March use year but I have to wait until after Nov 19 for them to make any changes, if they are needed.  I have her name, and she notated my account. That's the best I can do.
> 
> Hoping for the best (that nothing happens) and taking screen shots daily.



Wise move.  As of a few minutes ago, Wyndham advises they are on line to have this portion fully implemented tomorrow a.m.


----------



## antjmar

Sandi Bo said:


> Were it not for this bulletin board, I would be clueness to any changes going on.
> 
> I have received no communication (email or snail mail).  My account has not been adjustment.
> 
> 
> Hoping for the best (that nothing happens) and taking screen shots daily.


same here!!!


----------



## TUGBrian

glad the newsletter is working as intended! =)


----------



## massvacationer

*my account has had its use years consolidated*

I had three use years: Jan1, April1 & July1.

They were  all consolidated on Thursday into the Jan 1 use year

I did receive the correct number of "bonus"  (for lack of a better term)  points for the two use-years that they pushed forward.

I was a little ticked-off by the last minute communication from Wyndham and the loss of multiple use years.  (Thanks to this board I knew about this earlier).

However, in my case, my new consolidated use year is going to work well with my travel patterns as most of our reservation are for winter skiing with a couple of summer reservations too.  That leaves a lot of months to use any of the leftover points.

In the past, one negative issue that I did have with multiple use-years was it created problems when I tried to borrow from the future, when doing express reservations.   The system could only go out one use year to look for points to borrow.  So, frequently, I would (for example)  have already used my April 1 points and the system wasn't able to borrow from my July 1 use year.  Now, with all my points in one large-bucket consolidated use-year, I should be able to borrow points on-line more easily.

I do think Wyndham could  have communicated earlier and better - and should have offered people a choice of use year for their consolidation.


----------



## ronparise

Well here we are, Nov 19 and my account has one June 30 expiration and one Dec 31

Either Wyndham hasnt finished their job on this project (probable, I think) or they forgot to account for contracts in the transfer department

I have two accounts (I dont know why, but I do) and the small account had one 154k CWA contract with a June 30 expiration in it. The new account is a UDI, Dec 30 expiration. The transfer dept finished their work last week with my new purchase and I got to see that contract in my account last week.  Today the account shows both expiration dates still intact.

Its got me thinking...Going forward, I wonder if Wyndham will just assume that they have everything re set.  Almost everything with  a Dec 30 expiration and some single account  stragglers with March, April and Sept  expiration.  A  savvy buyer may be able to find another loophole and  make some strategic purchases to re establish the cancel points forward  roll


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Well here we are, Nov 19 and my account has one June 30 expiration and one Dec 31
> 
> Either Wyndham hasnt finished their job on this project (probable, I think) or they forgot to account for contracts in the transfer department
> 
> I have two accounts (I dont know why, but I do) and the small account had one 154k CWA contract with a June 30 expiration in it. The new account is a UDI, Dec 30 expiration. The transfer dept finished their work last week with my new purchase and I got to see that contract in my account last week.  Today the account shows both expiration dates still intact.
> 
> Its got me thinking...Going forward, I wonder if Wyndham will just assume that they have everything re set.  Almost everything with  a Dec 30 expiration and some single account  stragglers with March, April and Sept  expiration.  A  savvy buyer may be able to find another loophole and  make some strategic purchases to re establish the cancel points forward  roll



Or, maybe not everyone has to go under this system.


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> Or, maybe not everyone has to go under this system.



I dont think thats it.  I dont think Wyndham has singled me out for any special treatment


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> I dont think thats it.  I dont think Wyndham has singled me out for any special treatment



No, it would be the otherway around, the people affected would have been specifically selected for some reason.


----------



## bnoble

That's a pretty thick tin-foil hat, even for a timeshare owner.


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> Its got me thinking...Going forward, I wonder if Wyndham will just assume that they have everything re set.  Almost everything with  a Dec 30 expiration and some single account  stragglers with March, April and Sept  expiration.  A  savvy buyer may be able to find another loophole and  make some strategic purchases to re establish the cancel points forward  roll



It is easy to imagine that the unstated corollary to the Use Year re-alignment letter is that any contracts added to an existing account would align with the latest Use Year End Date in the existing account.  (Would they go to all this trouble knowing how the situation arose, and not institute a preventative procedure going forward?)  No one will know until it gets tried.


Edited to add:  The two contracts (aligned prior to the Wyndham policy change) in my account are still showing a Sept. 30 Use Year End Date, so they are out there.


----------



## Free2Roam

My account change happened sometime over the weekend.  I printed my point status screen last week.  When I checked this morning, I was missing 25,200 credit pool points.  The lady I spoke to in owner care easily found the problem... my 28,000 point contract was re-entered into the system as 2,800.  I was shocked to hear that part of the consolidation involved manual data entry...LOTS of room for human error.  

So, if you haven't had your contracts consolidated, make sure you do that screen print!!


----------



## mooman66

*Points Breakdown*

After getting a thorough education from this thread, I thought I was prepared for the transition.

I log in to check my points and sure enough, they are lumped into Jan 1-Dec31 2013.  Except, there isn't a breakdown of the points due to the shift (the 25, 50, or 75% mentioned in the email).  Called customer care...first person tells me that because I had already used my points on th e contracts that were shifted, I would not receive those points.  What?!  Email didn't mention anything like that.  It was a calculation on contract value!  Transfer me to someone else!

Okay, the second person was much more useful.  The contracts have been shifted, but the "shift points" have not been added to all accounts as of this posting.  They claim to have the process complete by this Friday.

In case you need to hear it again, shift points may only be used for 2013 travel dates and have a 10-month reservation window.  No pooling or converting to pay maintenance.


----------



## lcml11

FreeIn2010 said:


> My account change happened sometime over the weekend.  I printed my point status screen last week.  When I checked this morning, I was missing 25,200 credit pool points.  The lady I spoke to in owner care easily found the problem... my 28,000 point contract was re-entered into the system as 2,800.  I was shocked to hear that part of the consolidation involved manual data entry...LOTS of room for human error.
> 
> So, if you haven't had your contracts consolidated, make sure you do that screen print!!



Interesting, I had been advised by Wyndham that the Credit pool was not being affected by the change.  I guess this is simply not necessarily true.  This may be a broader set of changes than orginally thought.

On a more positive note, availablity may be holding in the initial phase, just got the three day weekend for Martin Luther King day with the discounts.


----------



## CO skier

FreeIn2010 said:


> I was shocked to hear that part of the consolidation involved manual data entry...LOTS of room for human error.



The whole re-alignment process is probably manual...guess Wyndham decided it was easier to program some people than it was to program their computer, and that is why it is taking days/weeks instead of milliseconds.

This is also why some accounts may slip through the process; Wyndham can't just "push a button" to ensure that all contracts in all accounts are aligned now or in the future.

One of these days they will have to upgrade from the Commodore 64 they are using.


lcml11 said:


> This may be a broader set of changes than orginally thought.



No, someone just screwed-up the account when they were manually re-aligning it.  The re-alignment process will take a couple of weeks, and correcting the errors from that process will take a few more weeks (or months, for those people who did not receive the email and who do not regularly check their accounts).


----------



## vawidowsson

I heard they upgraded already. Tandy 128s:rofl:


----------



## lcml11

Just cancelled a four bedroom and booked a two bedroom that became available within the discount window.  I did not want a four bedroom.  However, I  then went in to see if I could have booked the four bedroom at half price.  I could not at first.  I tried a minute later and it was their.

For the people that will retaining the multiple use year options (i.e. the PIC program).  It appears the ideal place to put the future use year start dates would be on or about late May or early June.  The roll-forward feature on points is still intact and this should maximize the value of this perk.


----------



## jjmanthei05

I know I am late the game on this post and forgive me for not reading the last 280+ comments but has anyone gotten a fake upgrade letter? I recieved one which I will post below but the contracts and use years along with the contract numbers don't match to anything I have. 

Jason


Here is the letter in full because they even have a fake street address....



> November 12, 2012
> 
> Manthei, Jason
> 123 Main St
> Waukesha, WI 53186
> 
> RE: Your Use Year
> ************ (this was my account number)
> 
> Dear Valued CLUB WYNDHAM Owner:
> 
> We are pleased to inform you of an upcoming change to your CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus membership that will simplify your usage in the future and allow us to better serve you.
> 
> As you may know, all contracts in the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program have one of four "Use Years": January 1 to December 31; April 1 to March 31 of the following year; July 1 to June 30 of the following year, or October 1 to September 30 of the following year.
> 
> We have identified your membership as having at least two contracts with different Use Years. This means that you currently have points beginning and ending multiple times throughout the year. In an effort to improve your membership experience, we have begun the process of consolidating all your contracts so that they have the same Use Year, January 1 - December 31.
> 
> Please note that your contract with the latest Use Year End Date will be unchanged. However, any contract(s) that does not have the same Use Year as the one with the latest End Date will be changed to that date. This change will be effective as of November 19, 2012.
> 
> We recognize that moving your Use Year End date to a later quarter also results in a delay of the start date of these points. So, we have been authorized to award you a one-time additional allocation of Points for you to use at no cost to you! The amount of points you will be awarded for each contract is based upon how many quarters we move your Use Year. If it is moved one quarter later, you will receive an additional allocation of 25% of your annual points; If it is moved two quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 50% of your annual points; and if it is moved three quarters later, you will receive an additional allocation of 75% of your annual points.
> 
> For example:
> Contract
> Number:	Annual
> Points:	Current
> Use Year:	New
> Use Year:	Additional One-time Point
> Allocation:
> 12-34-5678	154,000      	1/1 to 12/31    	1/1 to 12/31 (no change)	n/a
> 98-76-5432	300,000	7/1 to 6/30	1/1 to 12/31	150,000
> 
> This change does not impact points deposited with RCI, II or the Points Credit Pool, as well as Bonus Points, PIC Points and Cancelled Reservation Points.
> 
> Again, this change is effective as of November 19, 2012. After this date, please feel free to check your account status online at clubwyndham.com to confirm the Use Year changes and the award of the additional Point allocations.
> 
> If you have any questions related to this matter, we have established a dedicated toll-free phone number, 855-800-6749. This number will be operational Monday through Friday 8am to 8pm EST through the end of the year. We look forward to assisting you with all of your vacation needs and appreciate the opportunity to be of service.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus
> 
> cc: file
> 
> 8427 South Park Circle, Ste. 500, Orlando, FL 32819


----------



## scootr5

jjmanthei05 said:


> I know I am late the game on this post and forgive me for not reading the last 280+ comments but has anyone gotten a fake upgrade letter? I recieved one which I will post below but the contracts and use years along with the contract numbers don't match to anything I have.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> Here is the letter in full because they even have a fake street address....



Jason - that's not fake, that's the actual email from Wyndham. The contract info is just random to illustrate an example.

I would contact owner care regarding your mailing address though. For some reason they had our account set up with a Florida address and bad phone number after I purchased my second contract. I noticed it on a reservation confirmation and called in, and confirmed they had it screwed up in their system.


----------



## jjmanthei05

scootr5 said:


> Jason - that's not fake, that's the actual email from Wyndham. The contract info is just random to illustrate an example.
> 
> I would contact owner care regarding your mailing address though. For some reason they had our account set up with a Florida address and bad phone number after I purchased my second contract. I noticed it on a reservation confirmation and called in, and confirmed they had it screwed up in their system.



My info is correct in the system. It isn't what is listed on the letter they sent. The most interesting part is I had 4 contracts with 3 different use years which I am selling them all. By the time I got this email 3 of the contracts were gone and so there was only 1 left so there is nothing to move around. 

Jason


----------



## rcollinsny

*Still Intact*

Well I started this very active discussion and I really appreciate all of the feedback and insight provided by my fellow Tuggers!! As of 11/23, my points and use years have not changed at all. Maybe they just don't feel like messing with my 19 contracts!! :hysterical:


----------



## lcml11

rcollinsny said:


> Well I started this very active discussion and I really appreciate all of the feedback and insight provided by my fellow Tuggers!! As of 11/23, my points and use years have not changed at all. Maybe they just don't feel like messing with my 19 contracts!! :hysterical:



That makes you and Ron as having not been affected according to the posts.  This indicates, to me, that this may not be an across the board change and only targeted accounts are affected.


----------



## pacodemountainside

As I understand, they are doing manually.  My one resale  FY contract  which I have only owned about 3 years  got zapped about a week ago.

Probably taking awhile to deal with  mega contract owners!

If they are closing a loop hole does not make sense to zap me who  has never  used vs   mega owners  who they  perceived as a problem.


----------



## DrBopp

pacodemountainside said:


> As I understand, they are doing manually.  My one resale  FY contract  which I have only owned about 3 years  got zapped about a week ago.
> 
> Probably taking awhile to deal with  mega contract owners!
> 
> If they are closing a loop hole does not make sense to zap me who  has never  used vs   mega owners  who they  perceived as a problem.



Got 169250 points. I have no complaints. I had already put 2013 and 2014 in the credit pool and used them. If they are going to do it anyway,I may as well benefit.


----------



## Sandi Bo

pacodemountainside said:


> As I understand, they are doing manually.
> 
> If they are closing a loop hole does not make sense to zap me who  has never  used vs   mega owners  who they  perceived as a problem.[/QUOTE
> 
> I agree, it appears to be a manual adjustment.  My guess is there isn't a plan (as far as who gets adjusted first, if at all). It seems to me that it is very poorly planned, and not being handled consistently. Nor is there information anywhere that says what's going on, other than an email that some people have received (and may contain incorrect information about your account).
> 
> My account has not been adjusted nor have I received any communication from Wyndham.  My expectation is that some day I will call in with an unrelated issue, someone will notice my account wasn't adjusted, and will do it then.  I don't know, just guessing.
> 
> I have called them and they said my account was scheduled to be adjusted (by Nov 19th) but nothing has happened.
> 
> That does not make me comfortable in any way.  I'm fairly certain that someday, it will happen.   I also would venture to bet that the new changes in the system won't work well with multiple use years.
> 
> My preference would be to get it over with, but when I asked I was told to wait.  I was told I could keep my preferred use year (I do not currently have a Dec 31 use year).
> 
> I continue to take screen shots and monitor my account closely.
> 
> Ahhh.. the Wonder of WyndhamE]


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> pacodemountainside said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I understand, they are doing manually.
> 
> If they are closing a loop hole does not make sense to zap me who  has never  used vs   mega owners  who they  perceived as a problem.[/QUOTE
> 
> I agree, it appears to be a manual adjustment.  My guess is there isn't a plan (as far as who gets adjusted first, if at all). It seems to me that it is very poorly planned, and not being handled consistently. Nor is there information anywhere that says what's going on, other than an email that some people have received (and may contain incorrect information about your account).
> 
> My account has not been adjusted nor have I received any communication from Wyndham.  My expectation is that some day I will call in with an unrelated issue, someone will notice my account wasn't adjusted, and will do it then.  I don't know, just guessing.
> 
> I have called them and they said my account was scheduled to be adjusted (by Nov 19th) but nothing has happened.
> 
> That does not make me comfortable in any way.  I'm fairly certain that someday, it will happen.   I also would venture to bet that the new changes in the system won't work well with multiple use years.
> 
> My preference would be to get it over with, but when I asked I was told to wait.  I was told I could keep my preferred use year (I do not currently have a Dec 31 use year).
> 
> I continue to take screen shots and monitor my account closely.
> 
> Ahhh.. the Wonder of WyndhamE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone actually been converted after November 19, 2012, or did this abruptly stop?  A November 19, 2012 scheduled conversion that did not happen is very interesting.
> 
> Just ran into the newest of the changes.  Booked a reservation on line.  It takes regular points first than cancelled points.  You used to be able to call the same day and have the cancelled points used over the regular year points.  The rep would not do it for me.  She said she has to go with the computer.  When I explained that was the proceedure that has been being used I got hung up on.  Am going to try and still get this changed for me.  To bad notice of this change was not made in advance.
> 
> Called them back and got the problem fixed.  While they were on the line, I asked if the consolodation of the use year dates was complete and they indicated it was.  They also indicated that the rest of the changes are expected by the end of January, 2013.
Click to expand...


----------



## rcollinsny

lcml11 said:


> Sandi Bo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone actually been converted after November 19, 2012, or did this abruptly stop?  A November 19, 2012 scheduled conversion that did not happen is very interesting.
> 
> Just ran into the newest of the changes.  Booked a reservation on line.  It takes regular points first than cancelled points.  You used to be able to call the same day and have the cancelled points used over the regular year points.  The rep would not do it for me.  She said she has to go with the computer.  When I explained that was the proceedure that has been being used I got hung up on.  Am going to try and still get this changed for me.  To bad notice of this change was not made in advance.
> 
> Called them back and got the problem fixed.  While they were on the line, I asked if the consolodation of the use year dates was complete and they indicated it was.  They also indicated that the rest of the changes are expected by the end of January, 2013.[/QUOTE
> 
> The best way to avoid misuse of Regular points over Cancel points is to call and make the reservation using the Call Center so they can adjust the points as they make the reservation. I have been doing that for a long time. If they are making the online system always take Regular over Cancel (it was somewhat unpredictable before) then it is going to result in more and more of us calling for reservations instead of using the online system. That is very contradictory to what Wyndham is trying to accomplish by encouraging more people to book online!! But none of us have ever accused Wyndham of putting much forethought into these kinds of decisions. They look at the benefit of the direct change to them and never consider the collateral damage it may cause.
Click to expand...


----------



## bnoble

Ron, it might be worth calling back and trying again; this might be a situation where different agents provide different levels of "help".  However, I dimly recall reading reports from others over the past year---and maybe longer---that Wyndham will no longer use cancel points before regular points in the same UY.


----------



## MsT28

my use year changed, and no extra points. Was supposed to be 185000 plus or minus.  Guess I will be calling on Monday.


----------



## lcml11

MsT28 said:


> my use year changed, and no extra points. Was supposed to be 185000 plus or minus.  Guess I will be calling on Monday.



Give them a call now, they are probably there.  Ask for Owner Care.


----------



## rcollinsny

MsT28 said:


> my use year changed, and no extra points. Was supposed to be 185000 plus or minus.  Guess I will be calling on Monday.



Typically, the adjustment points have been coming a day or two later after your points use years are consolidated.


----------



## rcollinsny

bnoble said:


> Ron, it might be worth calling back and trying again; this might be a situation where different agents provide different levels of "help".  However, I dimly recall reading reports from others over the past year---and maybe longer---that Wyndham will no longer use cancel points before regular points in the same UY.



I just did one a few days ago but we use the Presidential Reserve call center where we might actually be receiving Presidential Reserve treatment!! But I agree they can change that policy at any minute!!


----------



## persia

No tin foil hat is too thick for a timeshare owner!








bnoble said:


> That's a pretty thick tin-foil hat, even for a timeshare owner.


----------



## Leturno

*10 of us you and I*



vawidowsson said:


> I heard they upgraded already. Tandy 128s:rofl:



Probably only 10 of us, you and I that got that! :hysterical:
Trash 80 and IIgs forever! 

Personally they really should have gone Amiga!​
REGARDING User Year Change:
Back to the actual thread about the timeshare contract year for those still scratching their heads and wondering what we are talking about.
Thanks for posting this information. We went about 2 years of not making vacation plans and pretty much just banking/pooling and ignoring Wyndham/RCI and I was WAY confused when I saw both our contracts with new calendar year use dates. Personally I liked out old June and October dates because I could push or pull points as needed. But I  can learn to work with this too. It's not the worst unilateral thing they have done to us.

I also had points deposited into RCI 'pre-online search' and suddenly I can online search so I am not looking the gift horse in any orifice.


----------



## Sandi Bo

Leturno said:


> Probably only 10 of us, you and I that got that! :hysterical: !



Or maybe 11 or 100 of us?  :whoopie:  Sorry I just couldn't resist.

And back to the original thread...  I will agree there are some pluses to the changes. But I still don't like the way things were introduced.  I am concerned we will continue to see changes.  Apparently they'll get rolled out as they get them coded. That concerns me.

Interestingly, my sister just told me she went to an owner update when she was at Royal Vista (Oct 20) and the salesman told her they were going to be consolidating use years.  That meant nothing to her as I manage the account, I was just explaining to her what was going on and she said 'oh yeah...they told us that'.


----------



## antjmar

have all accounts been updated by now?


----------



## Sandi Bo

In an earlier post someone indicated that Wyndham said they were done.

Bottom line, IMO, anytime they want to adjust you, they will.  Again, only my opinion, but I would say attending a sales presentation or owner update (where they scower through your account and activity to determine how best to sell to you) could easily trigger an adjustment.  Or maybe a call the Owner Care for something else, or an audit (naw.. don't think Wyndham does any auditing...).


----------



## paxsarah

Leturno said:


> But I  can learn to work with this too. It's not the worst unilateral thing they have done to us.



I don't know why I find it so amusing that this is about the most positive thing anyone can say about this change. They should put it in the marketing materials!

"Club Wyndham: Things Could Be Worse™"


----------



## ronparise

Interesting to note that the estoppels from Wyndham (at least those with  Jan use year, now carry this wording:

"Your buyer should note that if they are an existing Club Wyndham Plus member with a different use year on their membership that membership use year will be adjusted to 12/31 at the time Wyndham updates ownership of this contract into their name."


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> Interesting to note that the estoppels from Wyndham (at least those with  Jan use year, now carry this wording:
> 
> "Your buyer should note that if they are an existing Club Wyndham Plus member with a different use year on their membership that membership use year will be adjusted to 12/31 at the time Wyndham updates ownership of this contract into their name."



Interesting, it does appear that any adjustment points are going to be given in this type of case.  

If anyone did not get their use changed under the released rules, then I would call Owner Care ASAP and claim the adjustment points.


----------



## antjmar

lcml11 said:


> Interesting, it does appear that any adjustment points are going to be given in this type of case.
> 
> If anyone did not get their use changed under the released rules, then I would call Owner Care ASAP and claim the adjustment points.



My account hasn't been changed yet.  I was just going to wait and see what happened. You think I should call?


----------



## MaryBella7

*UGH!*

Since I am a teacher, and I travel always during prime-time, I typically make my reservations at the 10 month mark to get desirable locations/rooms.  I am not a VIP, so I never utilize any kind of last-minute discounts.  As a result, I have already used all of my points for 2013, and cannot even take more vacations then. In fact, I credit pooled points to be able to book one of my trips because I had no knowledge of this change.

I have 2 contracts that have the Jan-Dec use year, and one with April-March.  Since they pushed the April-March contract into the next year, and I already used my April 2013-March 2014 points, I now have no points coming to me from that contract in 2014  I got my point allocation for that change in 2013, but cannot use them, and did need them for 2014.

When I called Wyndham, I tried to explain that I wanted those points in 2014 - not 2013.  The first person I spoke to argued with me repeatedly that those extra points were a bonus that I wasn't paying for.  I told her that I most certainly was paying for them.  She told me I wasn't listening to her and treated me like I was stupid.  Thanks to TUG, I know that I most definitely am NOT.

The next person I spoke to acknowledged immediately that I was paying for those points and that my assessment was correct, and that I had every right to be frustrated.  Of course, Wyndham won't do anything for me, but I was so lucky to be able to pay $39 for the privilege of pooling those "bonus" points to put them in the year where they should have been anyway.  She, at least, didn't treat me like an idiot. 

This is very aggravating.  I am OK with changing the use years (I don't really like it, but oh well), but am really unhappy that these points were put into a use year that is already pretty much "over" in terms of booking for those of us who book 10 months out for summer trips in prime locations. A last minute change of this magnitude should offer the option of where those "bonus" points should go - 2013 or 2014 - depending on where they are actually being lost.


----------



## bnoble

While they should probably waive the credit pooling fee, pooling them _would_ solve your problem.  I would (pay to) pool them, and then write a letter to Owner Services asking for the fee to be refunded to your account.  They might, they might not, but it would not hurt to ask.  Doing it over the phone won't work though---it will take you too many levels to get to someone with the right authority.


----------



## MaryBella7

bnoble said:


> While they should probably waive the credit pooling fee, pooling them _would_ solve your problem.  I would (pay to) pool them, and then write a letter to Owner Services asking for the fee to be refunded to your account.  They might, they might not, but it would not hurt to ask.  Doing it over the phone won't work though---it will take you too many levels to get to someone with the right authority.



That was my plan, though I don't expect much to come of it.  I did pool them before I forgot about it and it was too late.   Thanks for the kind advice


----------



## Sandi Bo

paxsarah said:


> I don't know why I find it so amusing that this is about the most positive thing anyone can say about this change. They should put it in the marketing materials!
> 
> "Club Wyndham: Things Could Be Worse™"



Love it - how true!



antjmar said:


> My account hasn't been changed yet.  I was just going to wait and see what happened. You think I should call?



IMO, only if you want them to adjust your account.  The plus I see to calling them is that you would be more aware of when they are adjusting your account.  Otherwise, just be sure you have good records (and screen shots) of your account and keep an eye on things.


----------



## sjuhawk_jd

paxsarah said:


> I don't know why I find it so amusing that this is about the most positive thing anyone can say about this change. They should put it in the marketing materials!
> 
> "Club Wyndham: Things Could Be Worse™"



Here is a friendly amendment:

"Club Wyndham: Things could and will be Worse" :hysterical:


----------



## lcml11

antjmar said:


> My account hasn't been changed yet.  I was just going to wait and see what happened. You think I should call?



If you want the points, absolutly.


----------



## lcml11

bnoble said:


> While they should probably waive the credit pooling fee, pooling them _would_ solve your problem.  I would (pay to) pool them, and then write a letter to Owner Services asking for the fee to be refunded to your account.  They might, they might not, but it would not hurt to ask.  Doing it over the phone won't work though---it will take you too many levels to get to someone with the right authority.



If you do this, get in contract with what they call the Escalation Department.


----------



## antjmar

lcml11 said:


> If you want the points, absolutly.


I called they updated my account "extra" points are already available. Online Info will be revised tomorrow.
FYI they are not done with all accounts yet. If you recently purchased a contract (like I did) that may be the reason you didn't get revised (yet).


----------



## lcml11

antjmar said:


> I called they updated my account "extra" points are already available. Online Info will be revised tomorrow.
> FYI they are not done with all accounts yet. If you recently purchased a contract (like I did) that may be the reason you didn't get revised (yet).



Congratulations.  My account is already updated.  Anyone wanting the points should do like you did, go get them.


----------



## antjmar

lcml11 said:


> Congratulations.  My account is already updated.  Anyone wanting the points should do like you did, go get them.


Yes I agree!  Thank you


----------



## scootr5

One of the things I find humorous about this whole situation is that when I talked to them earlier this year about possible changing a UY on one of my contracts, they told me they could not make any changes like that if the account had a_any_ points in the credit pool.

Apparently they found a way around that problem when _they_ wanted to make the change....


----------



## am1

Tomorrow will be the first day to push points through to expire September 30, 2014.


----------



## chapjim

Got over a million "bonus points" about a week ago.  Used them all on reservations the same day.

The bad thing.  I made several reservations for Thanksgiving week at Bonnet Creek.  I'll cancel and rebook in September but won't have a lot of time to use the recovered points.


----------



## lcml11

chapjim said:


> Got over a million "bonus points" about a week ago.  Used them all on reservations the same day.
> 
> The bad thing.  I made several reservations for Thanksgiving week at Bonnet Creek.  I'll cancel and rebook in September but won't have a lot of time to use the recovered points.



If you have the ability to use a PIC contract where you select the start date, and the roll forward feature is not gone for multiple use years, you will still have two use years to play with.  Lets hope for the best on this issue.


----------



## Dedibble

ronparise said:


> I wanted to comment on this last night but needed to organize my thoughts. So I slept  on it...This morning I find I dont have to comment at all except to second everything that Sandy has said
> 
> This is a loop hole or unintended consequence that Wyndham is fixing, not a benefit that they are taking away. The op said it wasnt a monetary thing it was a tool he used to manage his points and I would add, allowed him to make mistakes and easily recover from them...The change is that he will have to manage his business a little closer
> 
> This is I admit easy for me to say, because, like Sandy, Everything in my account, at present,  is a Jan use year.  So in my business I dont make Christmas or New Years or Thanksgiving reservations to hold for rentals. because if I had to cancel them I would have a lot of points to use or lose with only a month to go in the year. I try to manage my points so that my last rentals are done and paid for by September. If I do have a Christmas or New Years reservation to rent, and its not rented by my birthday (October) I cancel it and wholesale out the points. You may remember my ad from a few months ago where I offered my points at $4/1000). That was to avoid a use it or lose it situation now.
> 
> The op will have to manage his points a little closer, but Im confident he will figure out the new system and turn it to his advantage
> 
> Just wait until the VIP's favorite loophole (cancel, rebook; cancel and upgrade) is closed..there will be some real screaming going on then


Do you think they are going to do that? That is theONLY thing that makes Wyndham a good thing for us!!!!!  My concern is that every single contract we have with them says that Wyndham has the right to reserve unit for the purpose of renting during the last 60 days.  They spent years and years selling everyone points to get to the Gold and Platinum status - using the good ole " do this " " do that" ploy.   We always book, cancel and rebook, especially since they took away the 28,000 RCI Weeks.


----------



## ronparise

Dedibble said:


> Do you think they are going to do that? That is theONLY thing that makes Wyndham a good thing for us!!!!!  My concern is that every single contract we have with them says that Wyndham has the right to reserve unit for the purpose of renting during the last 60 days.  They spent years and years selling everyone points to get to the Gold and Platinum status - using the good ole " do this " " do that" ploy.   We always book, cancel and rebook, especially since they took away the 28,000 RCI Weeks.



No I dont think thats going to happen. At least Im betting against it by aggressively buying more Wynsham points.  and Im even buying some points from the developer to make my account platinum. just so I can get those 50% discounts and upgrades. 

But my plan isnt completely dependent on  the cancel and rebook trick. (Ill take advantage of it when I can of course, but its not the centerpoint to my plan) If thay take away cancel and rebook Ill figure out a new way to use what I own profitably


----------



## Sandi Bo

I think you have to be prepared for anything and adjust accordingly.  

Other things (including staggered use years) were used heavily as a marketing ploy. 

Even if they make it difficult or impossible to cancel/rebook, being able to book discounts when within 60 days is of value.  Yes, if changes are made, I will be disapointed, but as Ron said earlier, people will adjust.

On another note -- no one got any bonus points in this latest change.  If you were adjusted, you got prorated points based on your original use year.  You did get use of some points earlier than you originally would have, now you will wait longer for your next allotment of points.


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> I think you have to be prepared for anything and adjust accordingly.
> 
> Other things (including staggered use years) were used heavily as a marketing ploy.
> 
> Even if they make it difficult or impossible to cancel/rebook, being able to book discounts when within 60 days is of value.  Yes, if changes are made, I will be disapointed, but as Ron said earlier, people will adjust.
> 
> On another note -- no one got any bonus points in this latest change.  If you were adjusted, you got prorated points based on your original use year.  You did get use of some points earlier than you originally would have, now you will wait longer for your next allotment of points.



Regardless of what the points given are called and how they are catagorized, the main point now is if someone who is eligable to have use years changed and they have not been changed at this time, is do they want to call and get their points or wait and maybe have the same thing done without getting use of any additional points.

A second issue that may be of concern over the next few months, is any seller of a Wyndham Timeshare has to decide if they want to call and get the points added to the account prior to sale to make the sale easyier or more desirable for the buyer, or to let it go and let it go to the buyer without the additional points.  I am surprised that more E-Bay sellers are not highlighting the extra points as a bonus for buying the re-sale unit now.

I was just reviewing my points screen and found the following again.  I forgot about this little "I got ya":

•Availability of Pool Credits depends upon points placed in the pool by other Members with the same Use Year End Date of the year you wish to use your credits.

The effect on the availability of matching use year points in the credit pool for the use year date starting January 1st should be a massive positive and the effect on the other use year dates would probably be a massive negative.

If I had credit pool use year points that were not Jan 1st use year start dates, I would be using them, like now, in case the availability pool for the other use years all but disappears in 2013.


----------



## lcml11

Just got off the phone with reservations, they are indicating they are heavily booking out resorts through January next year.  I guess they are experience heavy projected use due to the adjusted points hitting on January 1.


----------



## erixunz

*Wyndham merging new and existing contracts to ONE renewal/anniversary date*

I saw this on an eBay listing for a Wyndham resale:

Note To Existing Wyndham Members:
Once this transfer has taken effect, Wyndham will merge all of your existing contracts and they will issue you a new award date for ALL of your points. This date will be the latest date that you are awarded points in the calendar year.

Has anyone completed a resale transfer completed recently that can confirm this?

I currently own resales with January, April and October renewal dates.  I made another purchase last month and am waiting for the transfer to complete.


----------



## Sandi Bo

This was a hot topic in November and what you are reading is related to it. See:  

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182099

Many, but not all, people had their contract use years adjusted as the ebay ad you quoted describes.  Points were adjusted (prorated) as part of the alignment.  

My opinion is that if your points weren't adjusted in November, you are suspect to it happening anytime. That's just my opinion, it was a manual process to adjust and align and not everyone's account was adjusted, but as you can see from the thread, many were.


----------



## MFT

My 3 contracts, all with different dates were adjusted as the above post states.  We actually got additional points due to the change.  So my April and July were pushed to a start date in Jan, and I got credited extra points to make up for the push.

Also as stated, lots of threads on the issue from late fall last year.


----------



## ronparise

When you buy a resale contract the estoppel letter now includes a line that tells the owner that their buyer, if they have other contracts, all their contracts will be re aligned to a Dec 31 use year


----------



## massvacationer

MFT said:


> My 3 contracts, all with different dates were adjusted as the above post states.  We actually got additional points due to the change.  So my April and July were pushed to a start date in Jan, and I got credited extra points to make up for the push.
> 
> Also as stated, lots of threads on the issue from late fall last year.



This was my experience as well.  I, too, had April, July and Jan use years.  They were all pushed into the Jan use year - and I got approx 100K extra 2013 points to make me whole for this push into one use-year.


----------



## Rob88

*Good job Wyndham - close the loopholes.*

I think this is a great move by Wyndham.  It forces people to use points as they were intended.  Timeshare owenership as a concept was originally a "vacation experience" for individuals and families.  It was not a business opportunity for people to buy millions of points that they rent for profit.

Frankly,  it is my opionion that all the booking/cancelling of weeks in bulk - by those only in it to make a buck - takes away opportunities for owners that are looking for an actual vacation for their personal use.

I understand that we live in a capitalist society and everyone has the right to do what they want, but most people that buy timeshares just want the opportunity to have a good vacation with their families.  We don't all have the time to constantly scour the various systems for the best deals and find all the loopholes to our advantage.

So I say good job Wyndham, close all the loopholes that you can and make a level playing field for everyone again.


----------



## antjmar

Rob88 said:


> I think this is a great move by Wyndham.  It forces people to use points as they were intended.  Timeshare owenership as a concept was originally a "vacation experience" for individuals and families.  It was not a business opportunity for people to buy millions of points that they rent for profit.
> 
> Frankly,  it is my opionion that all the booking/cancelling of weeks in bulk - by those only in it to make a buck - takes away opportunities for owners that are looking for an actual vacation for their personal use.
> 
> I understand that we live in a capitalist society and everyone has the right to do what they want, but most people that buy timeshares just want the opportunity to have a good vacation with their families.  We don't all have the time to constantly scour the various systems for the best deals and find all the loopholes to our advantage.
> 
> So I say good job Wyndham, close all the loopholes that you can and make a level playing field for everyone again.



I Agree with you Rob. I have quite a few points and I do rent a few weeks. Since I bought resale I can't do the cancel and rebook trick. If a waiting list is implemented it will make it harder for the VIPs to do this. 
IMO Wyndham is making  it harder to rent as a business. See posts about smuggs  and bonnet creek (with the fees less profit for Wyndham timeshare owner renter). While I am frustrated when I see the week I want for my family vacation on e-bay I realize that the seller invested a lot of money to become a VIP and to be profitable he is spending time learning what rents well and reserving these units early. Wyndham is telling us we can  make money renting ( I considered becoming VIP) but then making it harder to do what they advertised. That is the reason many are upset with the changes.


----------



## ronparise

Rob88 said:


> I think this is a great move by Wyndham.  It forces people to use points as they were intended.  Timeshare owenership as a concept was originally a "vacation experience" for individuals and families.  It was not a business opportunity for people to buy millions of points that they rent for profit.
> 
> Frankly,  it is my opionion that all the booking/cancelling of weeks in bulk - by those only in it to make a buck - takes away opportunities for owners that are looking for an actual vacation for their personal use.
> 
> I understand that we live in a capitalist society and everyone has the right to do what they want, but most people that buy timeshares just want the opportunity to have a good vacation with their families.  We don't all have the time to constantly scour the various systems for the best deals and find all the loopholes to our advantage.
> 
> So I say good job Wyndham, close all the loopholes that you can and make a level playing field for everyone again.



booking, then cancelling and rebooking does not take anything away from other owners.  

At the 10 month mark (or 13 months if ARP) every owner has exactly the same opportunity and the same chances of getting the reservation  they want. If done on line reservations cant be made in bulk, they have to be made one reservation at a time. If Im on the computer trying to make 20 reservations, and you are there trying to make your one, then you will certainly get what you want before I complete what Im doing. and if there are only 20 units available and there are 19 owners and me going after them, chances are Ill get just one...just like everyone else

Now if we flash forward to the express reservation window.and I cancel and rebook for a discount; I dont see how that  takes away from anyone either. That reservation was already in my control, I didnt take it from you by cancelling and re booking. Ive just been able to get it for a little less points.

What you do lose is the opportunity to see lots of availability right up to the day of check in, Of course you never had that with timeshares anyway. If you cant plan ahead, timeshares are not for you. The good weeks are always booked early. Those good weeks will never be available to you if you wait to book them. 

My example is Mardi Gras in New Orleans. Wyndhams La Belle Maison has 140 rooms.  Your chances of getting one of these reservations is slim to none under any circumstance. In fact for this years Mardi Gras no reservations were available at the 10 month mark; La Belle Maison owners locked them all up in the Advance Reservation Window. And even as a La Belle Maison owner its difficult to get a Mardi Gras reservation I calculate the chances at less than 2%. (52 weeks x 140 units = 7280 individual weeks owned.  140/7280= 1.9%)

If I am one of the lucky ones that get one of these reservations, and even if later I cancel and re book, I fail to see how that hurts you, or any other owner. Your chances were exactly the same as mine going in.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Rob88 said:


> .. We don't all have the time to constantly scour the various systems for the best deals and find all the loopholes to our advantage...



You chose to use YOUR TIME  and others use their time for a different purposes ... whether it be "Pet Rescue", "Soup Kitchens", care of their elderly relatives, travel to far off lands, work a 2nd job to pay for college savings fund for their kids, watch TV shows, etc.

If it is your priority, you would READ the Members Directory and learn to USE your purchase of Wyndham timeshare points.

I do give you credit in finding TUG, reading various posts, and looking for free/cheap Wyndham Points here on TUG. And soon, you will find these MFs are ever increasing (fast than the COLA) and then perhaps, you will choose to RENT vacation week/stays to YOUR friends, family and strangers to HELP pay for those MFs leading to cheaper vacations for your immediate family.

I, myself, had planned to enjoy by vacation time every winter as a Pompano Beach Snowbird --- except I had my planned retirement delayed by the economy (for years now) and RENT my weeks and points to pay MFs and cover all the costs associated with renting (no, renters do NOT fall of trees anymore so than dollars). And as in any business, renting for your costs only does NOT cover those times you can't get a tenant or get the full cost (directly) covered -- you must have a those costs covered also.

And as Ron as mentioned, I use my ARP, just like any other owner - 13 months and on the phone. I have no special access or code - I work to get every desireable reservation, one phone call at a time. And now, I have years of experience. And I truly would rather be doing sometime else.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Rob88 said:


> .....So I say good job Wyndham, close all the loopholes that you can and make a level playing field for everyone again.



*To me, your "good job Wyndham" comment shows you do not understand HOW Wyndham makes money*.

1st is their MANAGEMENT contracts with the HOAs - they cover all their onsite management/staff fees PLUS renovations cost on a cost plus. Most HOA boards are fully staff by Wyndham employees who rubber stamp whatever costs or plans the regional and corporate management need to cover their expenses. Some have 1 out of 3 members as an owner. ONLY a few HOAs that Wyndham manages HAVE an independant HOA board of true OWNERS. And their MFs are much less.

2nd is SALES of new units - WAMM is their current method of operation for acquiring new units/resorts. The other big sales is Club Wyndham Access, where those resorts have inventory UNSOLD as Wyndham Plus points or OLDER resorts whose HOAs had forecloused deeded weeks which CWA is buying for $1 week interval (but ONLY after the HOA spends the money to foreclouse on and hold for whatever length of time and then gets cherry picked into the Club Wyndham ACCESS Trust who starts paying the MFs to the resorts) ... Another reason the HOAs have much higher MFs as the resorts are NOT ALLOWED to sell even 1 week to any other entity for ANY amount of money. 

3rd is FEES to current Club Wyndham (whatever points). Image how much money is following into Corporate Wyndham for the newly raised fees - this year's increase was 3 cents per 1K of points. We have been paying for a computer system upgrade for years and years. Yes, we did get the ability of entering our OWN guests on the Guest Certificate -- then we got the JUMP in fees from $29 callin to $49  and then 3 months later, $99 online or $129 callin fee. And WHO gets that profit? Not the HOAs (also called the actual resort), but Corporate Wyndham.

Please stay around and keep reading ... all owners here pay their fees and have the same system to book their reservations. The more you learn, the better you can enjoy your family vacations and input YOUR OPINIONS to the HOA who raise your fees and manage the property you own at.


----------



## Rob88

WOW!! Looks like I touched more than a few nerves with my previous comments.  I did not intend to personally attack anyone on TUG BBS.  I have already learned a lot from reading good advice posted by all of you.  I will continue to read your advice here because I still have a whole lot more to learn.

And I do not fault anyone for trying to supplement their vacation money by renting out some of their weeks.  However, I am sure there are some (none of you) who, just like ticket scalpers, take advantage of early opportunities to book a lot of good inventory for the sole purpose of making a profit.  While perfectly legal, there is no way you can convince me that it does not take away from my chances to book some of the better locations and dates.

Yes, it is my responsiblity to prioritize my time and to plan ahead, but I do have a full time regular job.  I might not be able to pounce on an opportunity when RCI or II dumps a large batch of inventory.  Those who do this full time for profit will always have the advantage over the average guy.


----------



## Rob88

I hope we can all still be friends!!


----------



## BocaBum99

Rob88 said:


> So I say good job Wyndham, close all the loopholes that you can and make a level playing field for everyone again.



I think the playing field is level.  You have the same opportunity to become platinum, acquire more points and renting weeks as anyone else.  

You don't want equality of opportunity.  You want equality of outcome.   Fortunately, we don't live it that society.

I am against the cancel and rebook strategy.  I have never done it.  I am against it because it hurts the overall system.  It creates an artificial over supply of points.  With more points in the system than should be, demand increases.  With inelastic supply, and price not alterable, it increases the probability of stock out.  That is not healthy for the system.

If Wyndham actually does insert its own points to cover for the platinum reservations, then I don't have a problem with it.  However, I doubt that is the case.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Rob88 said:


> .... but I do have a full time regular job.  I might not be able to pounce on an opportunity when RCI or II dumps a large batch of inventory.  Those who do this full time for profit will always have the advantage over the average guy.



Most here on TUG also have FULL TIME jobs. I know I do - one where I spend 60+ hours a week (I do construction work - hands on). I get lucky sometimes and see the RCI/II inventory ... and book a great week here and there. I DO NOT RENT my exchanges, but I have a number of relatives who will buy my meals or other expenses to sleep on my sofa bed when I use them ... 

I have taken in the past 15 months - 2 siblings with spouses to Kaiua for 10 days, nephew to WDW@AKV for a week, cancelled by other nephew's Spring Break week at Ocean Walk (bad grades), my brother to NYC Manhatten in May for 7 nights, sent 86yo aunt & BF to Thanksgiving in Williamsburg (to join another sibling's DH's family). In the next 6 months, will be hosting recently widowed sister at WDW Wiilderness Lodge, one of the nephews at WDW AKV (most likely new June HS graduate), and someone in March for Spring Break in FLL.

Never do I ask them for $$$ -- but I get some great invites back from them -- Alaskan cruise for 7 nights this past August was really nice payback.


----------



## BocaBum99

Rob88 said:


> I hope we can all still be friends!!



If you bought retail to keep Wyndham in business, pay maintenance fees to keep the delinquencies down, and don't compete effectively for prime reservations, you will always be BEST friends with them.


----------



## BocaBum99

Rob88 said:


> Yes, it is my responsiblity to prioritize my time and to plan ahead, but I do have a full time regular job.  I might not be able to pounce on an opportunity when RCI or II dumps a large batch of inventory.  Those who do this full time for profit will always have the advantage over the average guy.



Then quit your job and start a business so that you can capitalize on whatever opportunities your market presents.  Then, hire one of these megarenters to do the job you don't want to do.   If you don't have time to be competitive, you can always pay someone to do so for you.

I recently bought a DVC package and I am pretty proficient at renting.  I could have rented the points myself.  However, I hired a firm to do it for me because it saved me a ton of time and netting me about what I would have gotten anyway because they are way better at DVC rentals than I am.


----------



## am1

vacationhopeful said:


> Most here on TUG also have FULL TIME jobs.



I have two full time jobs.  

The system is not for the small point owners who cannot plan ahead.  They would be better off to rent the vacations they want.  Price and availability would be better.


----------



## Rob88

BocaBum99 said:


> If you bought retail to keep Wyndham in business, pay maintenance fees to keep the delinquencies down, and don't compete effectively for prime reservations, you will always be BEST friends with them.



BocaBum,  you are cracking me up.  :hysterical:  Really, you guys have made me smile today.  Sorry I got you all spun up.  

Vacation Hopeful,  thank you for sharing your success with your family and friends.  I hope to one day be able to do the same.  I guess if I keep reading on here, I will eventually get it...


----------



## lcml11

Rob88 said:


> BocaBum,  you are cracking me up.  :hysterical:  Really, you guys have made me smile today.  Sorry I got you all spun up.
> 
> Vacation Hopeful,  thank you for sharing your success with your family and friends.  I hope to one day be able to do the same.  I guess if I keep reading on here, I will eventually get it...



Don't worry about it, some folks get excited easy.


----------



## Rob88

*Question for BocaBum99*

BocaBum,  I sent you a PM with a question about BG and ROFR.  I checked out your Blugreen site.  It is awesome!!

Thanks,  Rob


----------



## bogey21

BocaBum99 said:


> I am against the cancel and rebook strategy.  I have never done it.  I am against it because it hurts the overall system.  It creates an artificial over supply of points.  With more points in the system than should be, demand increases.  With inelastic supply, and price not alterable, it increases the probability of stock out.  That is not healthy for the system.



I don't own Wyndham, and admitedly don't understand the system, but from the outside looking in, the above seems to make sense.

George


----------



## ronparise

Rob88 said:


> WOW!! Looks like I touched more than a few nerves with my previous comments.  I did not intend to personally attack anyone on TUG BBS.  I have already learned a lot from reading good advice posted by all of you.  I will continue to read your advice here because I still have a whole lot more to learn.
> 
> And I do not fault anyone for trying to supplement their vacation money by renting out some of their weeks.  However, I am sure there are some (none of you) who, just like ticket scalpers, take advantage of early opportunities to book a lot of good inventory for the sole purpose of making a profit.  While perfectly legal, there is no way you can convince me that it does not take away from my chances to book some of the better locations and dates.
> 
> Yes, it is my responsiblity to prioritize my time and to plan ahead, but I do have a full time regular job.  I might not be able to pounce on an opportunity when RCI or II dumps a large batch of inventory.  Those who do this full time for profit will always have the advantage over the average guy.




RCI and II have nothing to do with this discussion, Its against RCI and II policy to rent exchanges. Wyndham on the other hand, tolerates us. . 

and you cant convince me I limit your chances to book the good weeks when I rent one of my reservations....You will always, always have a better chance of getting the one you want before I get the 10 I want

However, I agree I will always beat you out in the end. Just like a professional poker player with ten times the money you have, will beat you at that game, I will beat you at this one even though our chances are the same...Im experienced and I have more chips to play with

Oh   and dont worry about our nerves, at least not mine...we are a pretty tough bunch here


----------



## jjmanthei05

BocaBum99 said:


> I am against the cancel and rebook strategy.  I have never done it.  I am against it because it hurts the overall system.  It creates an artificial over supply of points.  With more points in the system than should be, demand increases.  With inelastic supply, and price not alterable, it increases the probability of stock out.  That is not healthy for the system.
> 
> If Wyndham actually does insert its own points to cover for the platinum reservations, then I don't have a problem with it.  However, I doubt that is the case.



The VIP points for the upgrade or discount (whether canceled and rebooked or just done within 60 days) is offset by either points of owners that expired and weren't pooled/RCI'ed or out of wyndham's unsold inventory to balance out the system. 

Jason


----------



## am1

Or Wyndham stealing overlapping reservations inside 15 days and someone else booking them.


----------



## jjmanthei05

ronparise said:


> RCI and II have nothing to do with this discussion, Its against RCI and II policy to rent exchanges. Wyndham on the other hand, tolerates us. .
> 
> and you cant convince me I limit your chances to book the good weeks when I rent one of my reservations....You will always, always have a better chance of getting the one you want before I get the 10 I want
> 
> However, I agree I will always beat you out in the end. Just like a professional poker player with ten times the money you have, will beat you at that game, I will beat you at this one even though our chances are the same...Im experienced and I have more chips to play with
> 
> Oh   and dont worry about our nerves, at least not mine...we are a pretty tough bunch here



Long Live the Mega Renter!!!!  Again the only advantage the mega renter (or any renter) has is there is no family planning needed. You know the dates you want to rent and don't need to worry about if everyone's schedule lines up. 

Jason


----------



## jjmanthei05

am1 said:


> Or Wyndham stealing overlapping reservations inside 15 days and someone else booking them.



They say they "may" do this but they don't. I have had on multiple occasions, multiple reservations under the same name I was planning on renting within 2 days of check in and none were canceled ever.  

Jason


----------



## debrinkleyusa

jjmanthei05 said:


> They say they "may" do this but they don't. I have had on multiple occasions, multiple reservations under the same name I was planning on renting within 2 days of check in and none were canceled ever.
> 
> Jason



Jason,
  Thanks for sharing that.  I have been very worried about this and usually do not even hold my units long enough to reach the 15 day window. Now maybe I can handle the stress of holding onto them a few more days.  I think this is the greatest value of TUG, among the many, of sharing our experiences and educating each other on how to get the most out of our timeshare investments.

Doug


----------



## chapjim

Rob88 said:


> So I say good job Wyndham, close all the loopholes that you can and make a level playing field for everyone again.



The playing field is level for everyone with comparable investments.  You don't want a level playing field.  You want to be treated the same as people who paid a lot more money than you did.


----------



## capital city

I dont see anything wrong with what Rob88 said. Of course a guy planning a vacation with his family is going to want more options out there and not be going against hundreds of pros with endless pts, perks, and knowledge of the system.


----------



## jjmanthei05

debrinkleyusa said:


> Jason,
> Thanks for sharing that.  I have been very worried about this and usually do not even hold my units long enough to reach the 15 day window. Now maybe I can handle the stress of holding onto them a few more days.  I think this is the greatest value of TUG, among the many, of sharing our experiences and educating each other on how to get the most out of our timeshare investments.
> 
> Doug



I pick up most of my units at the 15 day mark and rent them by check in. It does get a little nerve-racking when it's the day before check in and it isn't rented but the nice thing for us is if we don't rent it, we just go and use it. 

Jason


----------



## jebloomquist

Rob88 said:


> So I say good job Wyndham, close all the loopholes that you can and make a level playing field for everyone again.



I am sure that if for some magic reason, a loophole opened and the VIP fairy visited you one night and sprinkled Platinum VIP dust on you, you would never use the loophole that let the VIP fairy into you life.

Well, I do.

It gives my joy to help a relative of a friend get 2 two bedroom units at Bentley Brook for 5 days each, so that some kids can go skiing. It will cost them under $23/night per unit. I like being able to do that, and I believe that you would too.

Jim


----------



## VivianLynne

jebloomquist said:


> .... It will cost them under $23/night per unit. I like being able to do that, and I believe that you would too.
> 
> Jim



My VIP Gold friend booked me multiple midweek stays with their discounts allowing me and my construction help to stay midweek at Wyndham as we rebuilt my vacation home during 2012. It cost $40 night or $160 per week. It was the biggest help as one 4 night week we had to book a local motel for $565.


----------



## CO skier

jebloomquist said:


> It gives my joy to help a relative of a friend get 2 two bedroom units at Bentley Brook for 5 days each, so that some kids can go skiing. It will cost them under $23/night per unit. I like being able to do that, and I believe that you would too.
> 
> Jim



Why do you need the cancel/re-book trick to be so generous?


When a waitlist is eventually instituted and puts an end, for the most part, to cancel/re-book/upgrade, will that be the end of your philanthropy, or will you still make the reservations, just within the VIP 60-day discount window?


----------



## jjmanthei05

CO skier said:


> Why do you need the cancel/re-book trick to be so generous?
> 
> 
> When a waitlist is eventually instituted and puts an end, for the most part, to cancel/re-book/upgrade, will that be the end of your philanthropy, or will you still make the reservations, just within the VIP 60-day discount window?



Even with the wait list, that wont put an end to the cancel/rebook. Just for in demand weeks and we will see how long the wait list will be in effect. Will it only be good until 60 days before check in (which is my guess0? 45 days? 15 days? Remember wyndham's rental arm also picks up rooms and if there is a wait list then that limits what cancellations they can pick up to rent out. 

Jason


----------



## vacationhopeful

CO skier said:


> When a waitlist is eventually instituted and puts an end, for the most part, to cancel/re-book/upgrade, will that be the end of your philanthropy...



Hope you understand that your WAITLIST function is most likely NOT GOING TO BE FREE. And, if there is a "sugar coating" on it, VIPs will most likely have more than 1 "waitList" slots. 

Afterall, Wyndham likes upselling their owners to a higher level of ownership and this would be a big carrot.


----------



## CO skier

vacationhopeful said:


> Hope you understand that your WAITLIST function is most likely NOT GOING TO BE FREE. And, if there is a "sugar coating" on it, VIPs will most likely have more than 1 "waitList" slots.
> 
> Afterall, Wyndham likes upselling their owners to a higher level of ownership and this would be a big carrot.



If Wyndham is smart (I know, it is a contradiction), they will model the waitlist on the WorldMark model -- (1) the waitlist is free (it does not cost a Reservation Transaction, because there is no such thing in the WM system), (2)  it does not "cost" any credits to use until a reservation is booked, (3) it is in effect up until 15 days in advance of arrival, (4) each owner can can have up to 8 waitlist requests in effect at one time (all for free), and one, for example, could be good for "give me any 7 night stay at X resort for the months of June, July, or August."  (It might even be possible to include multiple resorts for all three months and have it count as only one of the eight requests).

With a waitlist such as this in effect, an in-demand Club Wynham Plus cancellation would never survive to be re-booked, let alone upgraded.  Even if somehow it did survive for a few hours, WorldMark, as an example again, has a "48-hour" rule against rebooking a cancelled reservation at a discount.  Clearly the designers of the WorldMark system understood and anticipated how the cancel/rebook game disadvantages other owners.  Maybe this progressive thinking will be contagious into other Wyndham systems.

For owners who book during the 11-13 month ARP window, the cancel/rebook has less of a detrimental effect, but I sympathasize with my fellow owners who try to use their points at the 10-month window and have to compete against the millions of developer points unleashed by the cancel/rebook trick.  A waitlist, if it is ever instituted, will go a long way to leveling the playing field for all owners at the 10-month booking window.

... and it's not "my WAITLIST function," it belongs to WorldMark the Club, for now, maybe other Wyndham systems, soon enough.  (And even if a waitlist is instituted, I do not anticipate needing or using it -- but plenty of other owners undoubtedly will).


----------



## jebloomquist

CO skier said:


> Why do you need the cancel/re-book trick to be so generous?
> When a waitlist is eventually instituted and puts an end, for the most part, to cancel/re-book/upgrade, will that be the end of your philanthropy, or will you still make the reservations, just within the VIP 60-day discount window?


CO skier

Be careful what you wish-list for, you just might get it.

I am not doing this to be philanthropic, I'm in it for the money. Let's get that clear.

If a wait-list happens, watch out. Right now I may make several reservations of a unit just in case I might lose it when I try to cancel and rebook. Once there is a wait-list, the real mega-renters, not me, may reserve up to 10 of something just to make sure that they get one as they cancel and rebook. You may suddenly see everything go away, and will have to pay for a place on a wait-list just to get anything.

Yes these reservations might start to reappear at the 30-60 day timeframe as they are cancelled, but you will only get them by paying to be on the wait-list. Welcome to the fee based wait-list. Wyndham wins, you lose.

Jim


----------



## jjmanthei05

CO skier said:


> If Wyndham is smart (I know, it is a contradiction), they will model the waitlist on the WorldMark model -- (1) the waitlist is free (it does not cost a Reservation Transaction), (2)  it does not "cost" any credits to use until a reservation is booked, (3) it is in effect up until 15 days in advance of arrival, (4) each owner can can have up to 8 waitlist requests in effect at one time (all for free), and one, for example, could be good for "give me any 7 night stay at X resort for the months of June, July, or August."  (It might even be possible to include multiple resorts for all three months and have it count as only one of the eight requests).
> 
> With a waitlist such as this in effect, an in-demand Club Wynham Plus cancellation would never survive to be re-booked, let alone upgraded.  Even if somehow it did survive for a few hours, WorldMark, as an example again, has a "48-hour" rule against rebooking a cancelled reservation at a discount.  Clearly the designers of the WorldMark system understood and anticipated how the cancel/rebook game disadvantages other owners.  Maybe this progressive thinking will be contagious into other Wyndham systems.
> 
> For owners who book during the 11-13 month ARP window, the cancel/rebook has less of a detrimental effect, but I sympathasize with my fellow owners who try to use their points at the 10-month window and have to compete against the millions of developer points unleashed by the cancel/rebook trick.  A waitlist, if it is ever instituted, will go a long way to leveling the playing field for all owners at the 10-month booking window.
> 
> ... and it's not "my WAITLIST function," it belongs to WorldMark the Club, for now, maybe other Wyndham systems, soon enough.  (And even if a waitlist is instituted, I do not anticipate needing or using it -- but plenty of other owners undoubtedly will).



Is it possible for wyndham to rent out worldmark reservations? I know there are some advantageous things built into the worldmark by laws as pertaining to how MF can be increased and they are the same for everyone. 

Jason


----------



## CO skier

jebloomquist said:


> CO skier
> 
> Once there is a wait-list, the real mega-renters, not me, may reserve up to 10 of something just to make sure that they get one as they cancel and rebook.
> Jim



Mega-renters are too smart to tie-up enough points to reserve "10 of something" for 8-11 months, just to hope that 2 or 3 survive the waitlist at 60-days before arrival, especially with the new Use Year restriction.


----------



## CO skier

jjmanthei05 said:


> Is it possible for wyndham to rent out worldmark reservations? I know there are some advantageous things built into the worldmark by laws as pertaining to how MF can be increased and they are the same for everyone.
> 
> Jason



If you are interested in these topics, there are myriad and endless threads available at wmowners.com.


----------



## jjmanthei05

CO skier said:


> If you are interested in these topics, there are myriad and endless threads available at wmowners.com.



I'm really not, I just didn't know if the waitlist thing was a built in feature wyndham can't get rid of similar to the MF increase. If it is there is no way wyndham would put something so advantageous to wyndham owners. 

I am guessing there will be a significant cost to wyndham associated with creating a waitlist. From the computer processing required to manage the waitlists of some 550,000+ owners along with extra call center personnel to handle those requests ect. I am guessing, Wyndham would have put it in long ago it it was going to be overly beneficial to them but I think it is much more advantageous to allow the Cancel/rebook and poach cancellations to rent vs the money they would make on waitlists. 

From the Wyndham people I have talked to at corporate, the wait list isn't part of Voyager and I have also heard Voyager hasn't been going let's call it "well" in testing. 

Jason


----------



## jebloomquist

CO skier said:


> Mega-renters are too smart to tie-up enough points to reserve "10 of something" for 8-11 months, just to hope that 2 or 3 survive the waitlist at 60-days before arrival, especially with the new Use Year restriction.



CO skier

You're right. They won't tie up too much, just all of the 1 bedroom units. Remember some of these mega-renter command over 20 million points.

Why the 1 bedroom units? Because that is what they upgrade from. Without 1 bedroom units available, they lose their leverage.

So at 10 months, see many of the 1 bedroom units disappear, or even at 13 months if they have ARP. 1-bedroom units don't take as many points to reserve. At 60-15 days you will see them reappear as the mega-renters start to use them for upgrades.

If this is not the way things go, it will be some other way that you won't like. Smart people will find a new "loophole" for you to complain about.

Jim


----------



## vacationhopeful

jjmanthei05 said:


> ....From the Wyndham people I have talked to ....I have also heard Voyager hasn't been going let's call it "well" in testing.
> 
> Jason



My causal conversations with backroom Wyndham employees have reflected the same POV on Voyager. And some of them are geekly enough to not be talking to owners.


----------



## antjmar

jebloomquist said:


> CO skier
> 
> Why the 1 bedroom units? Because that is what they upgrade from. Without 1 bedroom units available, they lose their leverage.
> 
> So at 10 months, see many of the 1 bedroom units disappear, or even at 13 months if they have ARP. 1-bedroom units don't take as many points to reserve. At 60-15 days you will see them reappear as the mega-renters start to use them for upgrades.
> 
> 
> Jim



Sorry but I dont follow you. Usually  during peak travel times you wont see many (if any) 2 bedrooms or larger available at 60 to 15  days. So how would they get an upgrade?


----------



## bnoble

> I have also heard Voyager hasn't been going let's call it "well" in testing.


I think I'll die of not surprise.


----------



## scootr5

vacationhopeful said:


> My causal conversations with backroom Wyndham employees have reflected the same POV on Voyager. And some of them are geekly enough to not be talking to owners.



Heh! 

Starwood owners have been waiting a long time for reservation system improvements that were planned/promised too....


----------



## pacodemountainside

jjmanthei05 said:


> I'm really not, I just didn't know if the waitlist thing was a built in feature Wyndham can't get rid of similar to the MF increase. If it is there is no way Wyndham would put something so advantageous to Wyndham owners.
> 
> I am guessing there will be a significant cost to Wyndham associated with creating a waitlist. From the computer processing required to manage the waitlists of some 550,000+ owners along with extra call center personnel to handle those requests ect. I am guessing, Wyndham would have put it in long ago it it was going to be overly beneficial to them but I think it is much more advantageous to allow the Cancel/rebook and poach cancellations to rent vs the money they would make on waitlists.
> 
> 
> Jason



Wait list won't cost Wyndham anything. All the costs of operating the reservation system are paid by VOI Trust from POA  fee  all 500K+ points owners pay.  Probably the reason it increased   for 2013 for first time in several years due to cost over runs.

As I recall,   it took about 5 years to get RCI portal programmed so hang loose for now!


----------



## jebloomquist

antjmar said:


> Sorry but I dont follow you. Usually  during peak travel times you wont see many (if any) 2 bedrooms or larger available at 60 to 15  days. So how would they get an upgrade?



The first thing they do is have enough lower points units from which to upgrade. Then as needed and as supply begins to dwindle, they reserve the bigger points units, and you no longer see them either. 

Here is how the process works now. A mega-renter only needs one smaller unit to upgrade many larger units. At 60 days or less they cancel the 1 bedroom reservation and get it at 50%. Then they cancel a larger unit and grab it as an upgrade, therefore getting the larger unit a 50% of the smaller unit. This immediately frees the smaller unit again to be reserved and used to upgrade another larger unit by the mega-renter. If there is a waitlist, the smaller unit would go to the next person in line. Therefore, the mega-renter reserves several smaller points unit in hopes of exhausting the waitlist. Remember, the mega-renter can use the waitlist also and probably will be putting in entries at the 10 month time frame. They think ahead.

My whole point here is to suggest that mega-renters may become more aggressive in terms of making multiple reservation for a premium or desired resort and time, because they will fear losing the first few attempts at cancelling and getting the reservation at 50%, or when freeing a larger unit for an upgrade.

A waitlist may have some negative consequences for the rest of us.

Jim


----------



## CO skier

jebloomquist said:


> CO skier
> 
> You're right. They won't tie up too much, just all of the 1 bedroom units. Remember some of these mega-renter command over 20 million points.
> 
> Why the 1 bedroom units? Because that is what they upgrade from. Without 1 bedroom units available, they lose their leverage.
> 
> Jim





antjmar said:


> Sorry but I dont follow you. Usually  during peak travel times you wont see many (if any) 2 bedrooms or larger available at 60 to 15  days. So how would they get an upgrade?




The mega-renters want to rent out larger units, but they only want to pay a 1 bedroom price, if they can.  Those larger units are not waiting around at the 60-day mark for an upgrade, so they have to reserve the 1 bedroom _and _at least one of the larger units, either at 13 months using ARP, or at 10 months -- tying up a lot of points for a long time.  When they cancel the larger unit(s) at around the 60-day mark for the upgrade attempt, they would go to the waitlist (certainly for Christmas, Spring Break, Summer beach, at least), and the mega-renter would be left with just the one bedroom.  They could make 10 of these 1 bedroom/large unit combinations, tying up a huge amount of points, but their chances of beating the waitlist even once would be limited.

With a waitlist in effect, the mega-renters will just reserve the holiday units they want, at regular points, and rent those out without a discount upgrade -- as it should be.  A waitlist would have the side-effect of increasing availability to all owners at the 13 month and 10 month booking windows, since the mega-renters will not be double or triple booking for an ultimate cancel/rebook/upgrade attempt.


----------



## lcml11

jebloomquist said:


> The first thing they do is have enough lower points units from which to upgrade. Then as needed and as supply begins to dwindle, they reserve the bigger points units, and you no longer see them either.
> 
> Here is how the process works now. A mega-renter only needs one smaller unit to upgrade many larger units. At 60 days or less they cancel the 1 bedroom reservation and get it at 50%. Then they cancel a larger unit and grab it as an upgrade, therefore getting the larger unit a 50% of the smaller unit. This immediately frees the smaller unit again to be reserved and used to upgrade another larger unit by the mega-renter. If there is a waitlist, the smaller unit would go to the next person in line. Therefore, the mega-renter reserves several smaller points unit in hopes of exhausting the waitlist. Remember, the mega-renter can use the waitlist also and probably will be putting in entries at the 10 month time frame. They think ahead.
> 
> My whole point here is to suggest that mega-renters may become more aggressive in terms of making multiple reservation for a premium or desired resort and time, because they will fear losing the first few attempts at cancelling and getting the reservation at 50%, or when freeing a larger unit for an upgrade.
> 
> A waitlist may have some negative consequences for the rest of us.
> 
> Jim



There has been a lot of chatter on the possable waitlist and its possable effect.  A poster, awhile ago estimated Platinum Members at about 1 percent of the total.  

What occurs to me is that a focus on effect is what is of concern.  If the number of Platinum members is not very many in the way of the world, whatever they do probably has no or little overall effect.  

A earlier post on a different thread, I think, also observed the only time this would only be real relevant is at better resorts in desirable timeframes.  A lot of reservations will not become available to the regular owner in any case because of the ARP rights owners and Wyndham Club Access members have.

The poor VIP Gold and Silver owners  that keep getting roughed up on this issue are actually helping availability in peak demand periods because even they do not have enough points to keep tied up in pending reservations to pull off what is being speculated that they do.  Most if not all of their point use probably occurs where there is inventory that is otherwise going to be unused effectively taking them out of the competion for the more desirable dates, on average.

I have had no significant difficulty getting unit upgrades in the discount windows for the resorts I go to frequently.  This does not suggest that Extra Holidays or other for profit Wyndham arms are being particularly successful in renting everything that may be available to them.  Remember, they also have the Hotel Group that has a lot of unused inventory in the same underutilized periods.

The last I heard from a Wyndham employee, not sales, on the Waitlist issue was that it was not going to be a true waitlist, it was going to be some sort of system that shows where availability might be available due to weaker demand.

As for Voyager, I believe that it is and has been being rolled out on a piecemeal bases (yes, in a testing mode).  How far along they are I do not know.  It is my understanding that it was always envisioned to be a multi-year process and is behind on its implementation.

To the extent that are large point holders that have the capability to hold peak season reservations, it is apparent that some of the posters are in the catagory and do well, or in the alternative are still in business.  How significant there activity is questionable at best.

A bigger concern or benifit, depending on perspective, would be declining ARP rights at the better resorts during peak demand that will continue to go to Club Wyndham Access.  A true for profit rental group, I would think, would want to be riding the Access gravey train.

Under Club Wyndham Access, it is my understanding that there are ways Wyndham can and will do increases in a Wyndham Club Access certificate that currently has no upper limit on the certificate.  If this is the case, than there is no effective upper limit to the amount of points that can be in a Club Wyndham Access account.  I believe the current limit for Club Wyndham Plus accounts is 15 contracts.


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> The mega-renters want to rent out larger units, but they only want to pay a 1 bedroom price, if they can.  Those larger units are not waiting around at the 60-day mark for an upgrade, so they have to reserve the 1 bedroom _and _at least one of the larger units, either at 13 months using ARP, or at 10 months -- tying up a lot of points for a long time.  When they cancel the larger unit(s) at around the 60-day mark, they would go to the waitlist (certainly for Christmas, Spring Break, Summer beach, at least), and the mega-renter would be left with just the one bedroom.  They could make 10 of these 1 bedroom/large unit combinations, tying up a huge amount of points, but their chances of beating the waitlist even once would be limited.
> 
> With a waitlist in effect, the mega-renters will just reserve the holiday units they want, at regular points, and rent those out without a discount upgrade -- as it should be.  A waitlist would have the side-effect of increasing availability to all owners at the 13 month and 10 month booking windows, since the mega-renters will not be double or triple booking for an ultimate cancel/rebook/upgrade attempt.



First of all I dont consider myself a mega renter...0nly a mega renter wanna be. 

Im pretty sure the mega renters dont reserves more units than they are confident of renting. No one wants to carry un needed or unwanted inventory.   I dont use the cancel and rebook trick for the really high value inventory...its not worth the risk. If I can make double or triple my mf by just renting straight up. Im happy, 

I would however be tempted to use the cancel and re book trick for the low value stuff, where I can rent for barely enough to cover mf. cancel and rebooking will turn a break even situation into a money maker.  

So my experience tells me that a wait list wont change much when it comes to the high value stuff. As  you suggest we will be on the phone 13 months in advance to get control of the really high value stuff, where we can make money with or without trickery.   Whats likely to happen is that the mega renters will stop trying to squeeze money out of the low value stuff..So expect plenty of availability for the junk.

By the way there is no more availability at La Belle Maison for Mardi Gras 2014 (13 months from now) It was sold out by 8:30 this morning.  I didnt get everything I wanted, but I did ok... My next big day will be March 25; 13 months ahead of the Jazz fest 2014


----------



## ace2000

ronparise said:


> First of all I dont consider myself a mega renter...0nly a mega renter wanna be.


 
So, how many more timeshares do you need to accumulate to reach that elite "mega-renter" status?  

I'd say you gotta be pretty close.  It's been interesting watching your progress over the past couple of years.  I appreciate the sharing that you do.


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> First of all I dont consider myself a mega renter...0nly a mega renter wanna be.
> 
> Im pretty sure the mega renters dont reserves more units than they are confident of renting. No one wants to carry un needed or unwanted inventory.   I dont use the cancel and rebook trick for the really high value inventory...its not worth the risk. If I can make double or triple my mf by just renting straight up. Im happy,
> 
> I would however be tempted to use the cancel and re book trick for the low value stuff, where I can rent for barely enough to cover mf. cancel and rebooking will turn a break even situation into a money maker.
> 
> So my experience tells me that a wait list wont change much when it comes to the high value stuff. As  you suggest we will be on the phone 13 months in advance to get control of the really high value stuff, where we can make money with or without trickery.   Whats likely to happen is that the mega renters will stop trying to squeeze money out of the low value stuff..So expect plenty of availability for the junk.
> 
> By the way there is no more availability at La Belle Maison for Mardi Gras 2014 (13 months from now) It was sold out by 8:30 this morning.  I didnt get everything I wanted, but I did ok... My next big day will be March 25; 13 months ahead of the Jazz fest 2014



I think you are right as to the probable behavior of the true mega rentor.  On the issue of how many points or point equilvants (for weeks owners) would be needed to get the mega rentor title, I think one poster at one point in time suggested 10 million points.

A 2 bedroom delux at Ocean Blvd in Myrtle Beach, Tower 1, Oceanfront view upper level, according to the points chart is 385,000 points in prime time.  This means our mega rentor friend could get about 25.98 reservations for the 10 million points.

Gross rental income would be $80,000 dollars.  Subtract the maintance fees for Mrytle Beach because ARP would probably be needed and marketing costs.

SeaWatch Plantation:

Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $5.27

Towers on the Grove:

Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.44

Club Wynham Access:

Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.91


----------



## ronparise

lcml11 said:


> I think you are right as to the probable behavior of the true mega rentor.  On the issue of how many points or point equilvants (for weeks owners) would be needed to get the mega rentor title, I think one poster at one point in time suggested 10 million points.



If you count points then Im there....If you count income (Im looking to net 100k/yr)...I have a way to go

The problem is scale. Its hard to command enough of the really high value stuff where you can make money without trickery, and not deal in the junk at all, except as a service to my fellow tuggers


----------



## ace2000

ronparise said:


> If you count points then Im there....If you count income (Im looking to net 100k/yr)...I have a way to go



Over 10 million points?  Sorry Ron, but you've now stepped over to the "dark side".  It's time to put the MR initials after your name...

:hysterical:


----------



## vacationhopeful

ace2000 said:


> MR initials after your name...
> 
> :hysterical:



That MR does stand for "Mister Ron" to us all, right?


----------



## lcml11

vacationhopeful said:


> That MR does stand for "Mister Ron" to us all, right?



Not to me, but apparently the bar has been raised to join the exclusive club of MR.

First Silver and Gold point levels and now MR levels.  Oh, what is the world coming to.

Oh well, they will probably grandfather Ron in.


----------



## jjmanthei05

lcml11 said:


> I think you are right as to the probable behavior of the true mega rentor.  On the issue of how many points or point equilvants (for weeks owners) would be needed to get the mega rentor title, I think one poster at one point in time suggested 10 million points.
> 
> A 2 bedroom delux at Ocean Blvd in Myrtle Beach, Tower 1, Oceanfront view upper level, according to the points chart is 385,000 points in prime time.  This means our mega rentor friend could get about 25.98 reservations for the 10 million points.
> 
> Gross rental income would be $80,000 dollars.  Subtract the maintance fees for Mrytle Beach because ARP would probably be needed and marketing costs.
> 
> SeaWatch Plantation:
> 
> Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $5.27
> 
> Towers on the Grove:
> 
> Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.44
> 
> Club Wynham Access:
> 
> Total HOA Fee for 1,000 Points: $4.91



For mega renters, I think your total is off. For a "mega renter" playing the game, they would get those reservations for 112,000 points (50% off 1 bedroom upgrade) which would give them just under 90 prime reservations. That is probably closer to correct. 

As for 10 million points my goal is closer to 9 million but I don't rent out full weeks so I don't need that many. 

Jason


----------



## jjmanthei05

ronparise said:


> If you count points then Im there....If you count income (Im looking to net 100k/yr)...I have a way to go
> 
> The problem is scale. Its hard to command enough of the really high value stuff where you can make money without trickery, and not deal in the junk at all, except as a service to my fellow tuggers



You just need your platinum status and you will be there no problem!

Jason


----------



## ace2000

ronparise said:


> If you count points then Im there....If you count income (Im looking to net 100k/yr)...I have a way to go



When you get to the net 100K/yr level, you might want to keep it secret.  Otherwise, you'll start competing against an extra hundred other TUG members...


----------



## ronparise

I dont have all 10mm in use yet, most are in one stage or another of contracting and transfer. and the 100k is a goal, certainly not a reality...There are some problems of scale that I have to work out.


----------



## mikemacfuse

*Wyndham flexs its authority again   owners disappointed*

I agree that Wyndham has violated many contracts with the new use year policy.  I know I was told by my sales person that I could have separate use years for each contract.  Now Wyndham is considering my four separate contracts (over 650,000 annual points) as a single unit and changing my use year to jan - dec.  I certainly would join any class action against Wyndham.  If anyone knows of a class action being considered please post the information so we can get this corrected.  I know some of you think it is okay for Wyndham to change policy at their discretion - but look at all the other changes they are making - mandatory shuttle fees at bonnet creek is a good example.  I would like to say shame on you Wyndham and your policies.


----------



## jjmanthei05

mikemacfuse said:


> I agree that Wyndham has violated many contracts with the new use year policy.  I know I was told by my sales person that I could have separate use years for each contract.  Now Wyndham is considering my four separate contracts (over 650,000 annual points) as a single unit and changing my use year to jan - dec.  I certainly would join any class action against Wyndham.  If anyone knows of a class action being considered please post the information so we can get this corrected.  I know some of you think it is okay for Wyndham to change policy at their discretion - but look at all the other changes they are making - mandatory shuttle fees at bonnet creek is a good example.  I would like to say shame on you Wyndham and your policies.



The problem is you have to prove damages above and beyond a former loophole that was closed that shouldn't have been there in the first place. 

Jason


----------



## lcml11

jjmanthei05 said:


> The problem is you have to prove damages above and beyond a former loophole that was closed that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
> 
> Jason



No doubt that is what drove the adjustment points that were allocated.  They would probably claim if there were damages, they have already compensated for them.


----------



## pacodemountainside

mikemacfuse said:


> I agree that Wyndham has violated many contracts with the new use year policy.  I know I was told by my sales person that I could have separate use years for each contract.  Now Wyndham is considering my four separate contracts (over 650,000 annual points) as a single unit and changing my use year to jan - dec.  I certainly would join any class action against Wyndham.  If anyone knows of a class action being considered please post the information so we can get this corrected.  I know some of you think it is okay for Wyndham to change policy at their discretion - but look at all the other changes they are making - mandatory shuttle fees at bonnet creek is a good example.  I would like to say shame on you Wyndham and your policies.



FYI, there are several  subsidaries under WWW including Wyndham TS, WorldMark, Shell, RCI, EH, etc. In  addition there is the  Directory and  VOI Trust   that runs the reservation system and each resort has a HOA.  Which contracts with who are you referring to?  Keep in mind the sales/purchase contract  you signed said in effect sales weasels are compulsive liars and don't believe anything   they say as Wyndham will not honor!

The use year change was in accordance with VOI Trust Agreement.

The BC   shuttle fee was the BC HOA change.  If you read  BOD governing Documents  BOD is requried to prepare a balanced  budget and set HOA fee and SA accordingly  as well as resort policy!

Fairfield/Wyndham Arkansas/Philadelphia attorneys  did us in  long ago.  I doubt there are many happy campers.

So who would  you sue in a class acion lawsuit and what is your  cause of action?

RCI was sued successfully as it got caught red handed stealing inventory  but all owners have gotten is a "trinket".


----------



## eburnett727

I am also a President Reserve Member of Wyndham and they have already changed our contracts to expire on the same date.  I guess that Wyndham's way of making more money or loose your points.


----------



## am1

My account was just changed yesterday.  I had to credit pool 900 000 new points that were going to expire September 30, 2013.  I will save those till after my cancelled points expire.  I just missed getting cancelled points pushed forward to expire March 31, 2015.  That would have helped a lot.  

I will have to start working on a new angle.


----------



## ronparise

am1 said:


> My account was just changed yesterday.  I had to credit pool 900 000 new points that were going to expire September 30, 2013.  I will save those till after my cancelled points expire.  I just missed getting cancelled points pushed forward to expire March 31, 2015.  That would have helped a lot.
> 
> I will have to start working on a new angle.



I still have 3 different use years, Dec, 31, Mar 31 and Sept 30...I wonder how long that will last or if somehow I slipped under the radar


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> I still have 3 different use years, Dec, 31, Mar 31 and Sept 30...I wonder how long that will last or if somehow I slipped under the radar



When I was talking to a Wyndham person the other day, that person indicted that one of the things that was causing some multiple use year dates to continue was for people that were using the credit pool.  If the pool was used in someways, the multiple use years involved survived.


----------



## lcml11

am1 said:


> My account was just changed yesterday.  I had to credit pool 900 000 new points that were going to expire September 30, 2013.  I will save those till after my cancelled points expire.  I just missed getting cancelled points pushed forward to expire March 31, 2015.  That would have helped a lot.
> 
> I will have to start working on a new angle.



Did you get the adjustment points that went with the earlier changes?


----------



## am1

lcml11 said:


> Did you get the adjustment points that went with the earlier changes?



Yes and am not happy about it.  Some of those points I would have used for ARP reservations and I had to $39 to credit pool the reservations.


----------



## dr_adventure

*Use Year mandated Change*

Today I received an e-mail from Wyndham informing me that all of my use years would be converted to the same year.  Now I actually want separate use years.  I called the designated number and of course had to wait for 15 min.  Then I was told there was nothing I could do about this.  Now mind you I have had these contracts for several years. 

Has anyone else gotten this type of e-mail?

Is there any recourse?

Is it legal to change your contract with 3 days notice and no right of appeal?


----------



## BocaBum99

dr_adventure said:


> Today I received an e-mail from Wyndham informing me that all of my use years would be converted to the same year.  Now I actually want separate use years.  I called the designated number and of course had to wait for 15 min.  Then I was told there was nothing I could do about this.  Now mind you I have had these contracts for several years.
> 
> Has anyone else gotten this type of e-mail?
> 
> Is there any recourse?
> 
> Is it legal to change your contract with 3 days notice and no right of appeal?



This has already happened to most of us.


----------



## pacodemountainside

Gory details:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182099


Yes

No

Yes(VOI Trust and Directory)


----------



## Sandi Bo

*I got my letter today, too*

My use years are April 1 and Oct 1 and they are aligning me to Oct 1 -- effective March 31st. 

Wishful thinking - was hoping they had realized it made a lot of people unhappy and they had stopped.  I can only guess that they've finished working on the folks with the Jan 1 use years and now they are getting to the rest of us.


----------



## lcml11

dr_adventure said:


> Today I received an e-mail from Wyndham informing me that all of my use years would be converted to the same year.  Now I actually want separate use years.  I called the designated number and of course had to wait for 15 min.  Then I was told there was nothing I could do about this.  Now mind you I have had these contracts for several years.
> 
> Has anyone else gotten this type of e-mail?
> 
> Is there any recourse?
> 
> Is it legal to change your contract with 3 days notice and no right of appeal?



Did you get the adjustment points that went with the use year change?


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> My use years are April 1 and Oct 1 and they are aligning me to Oct 1 -- effective March 31st.
> 
> Wishful thinking - was hoping they had realized it made a lot of people unhappy and they had stopped.  I can only guess that they've finished working on the folks with the Jan 1 use years and now they are getting to the rest of us.



Did you get the adjustment points that went along with the re-allignment?


----------



## bogey21

I may have missed it and/or don't understand the nuances of Wyndham ownership, but will someone post a simple explanation of why Whydham made this change.  Just curious.

George


----------



## CO skier

bogey21 said:


> ... a simple explanation of why Whydham made this change.  Just curious.
> 
> George



The "why" can only be the subject of speculation.  Post #24 on the first page of this thread, though, is as good of an explanation as any.


----------



## Sandi Bo

lcml11 said:


> Did you get the adjustment points that went along with the re-allignment?



They are saying the changes will be effective March 1 and that I will get the adjustment points.   You never what's going to happen until it really does   The wonders of Wyndham.


----------



## lcml11

Sandi Bo said:


> They are saying the changes will be effective March 1 and that I will get the adjustment points.   You never what's going to happen until it really does   The wonders of Wyndham.



It is great that adjustments are continuing.  Apparently the use year change dates is a on-going process where the adjustment points are being spread out over time.


----------



## ronparise

I didnt get a letter or email, but the use year adjustment happened in both my accounts today. I think lcml11 was probably right when he said those of us that use the points credit pool confused things for them. 

I never used the "roll it forward" loophole, so this is something of a non event for me. My problem has never been how to extend the use of my points. I have the opposite problem..I usually run out, by mid year and have to buy more.

The surprise is; I got my adjustment points and they expire Dec 31 2014. Because I used the points credit pool I didnt expect an adjustment at all, or if I did get an adjustment, I  expected them to expire this year...so getting the full adjustment and having them expire next year, is a plus for me...Ill be able to add them into the points credit pool.and use them right now. 

The question I have is: Is this a real bonus for me?  or just an adjustment.

I had already put all my points, no matter their expiration date (2014 and 2015) into the points credit pool...and in Jan 2014 expected to see all my 2016 expirations (mar, jun, sept and dec). I still expect to see all the 2016 points in Jan 2014 (and yes Ill put them in the credit pool too) so nothing has changed .

They say "if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck; its probably a duck. 

The fact is my monthly maintenance fees didnt change...and in Jan Ill have the use of all my 2016 points.  Nothing changes in the way Im managing my account, but today I have an "extra" slug of points to use

This walks like a bonus and talks like a bonus..so Im going to treat it like a bonus and schedule a free vacation or two


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> The question I have is: Is this a real bonus for me?  or just an adjustment.
> 
> I had already put all my points, no matter their expiration date (2014 and 2015) into the points credit pool...and in Jan 2014 expected to see all my 2016 expirations (mar, jun, sept and dec). I still expect to see all the 2016 points in Jan 2014 (and yes Ill put them in the credit pool too) so nothing has changed .



The answer to the question will depend on how many points and when Wyndham awards them in the future.  On paper, at least, non-calendar credit-pooled years will "slip" just as they did for those who have already had the adjustment awarded.  It will just take a year or two for the credit-pooled accounting to balance.

Using an example for two 100k contracts, one with Jan-Dec and one with June-May use years from Jan 2013 to Dec 2015:

Non credit pool:
Jan - Dec 2013  100k
June - Dec 2013 "adjustment points" 50k
Jan - Dec 2014 200k
Jan - Dec 2015 200k

Total = 550k

versus

Credit pooled in late 2012:

Jan - Dec 2013 100k
June 2013 - May 2014 100k
Jan - Dec 2014 100k
June 2014 - May 2015 100k
Jan - Dec 2015 100k
February 2013 "adjustment" 50k

Total = 550k

Beginning in Jan 2016 both owners will receive 200k each calendar year.

If, however, you could have credit pooled the June 2015 - May 2016 points in late 2012 _and _you receive the full 200k for Jan - Dec. 2016, then that would be a 50k bonus.

No wonder it is taking Wyndham so long to straighten out this whole situation.


----------



## am1

No bonus.  Just getting your points sooner.  You have lost your right to use those points for ARP.  Will be cheaper for you to credit pool with them all being one use year.  

Have people seen these advance of points and no rolling forward affect availability?  A lot less December reservations will be cancelled in an almost use it or deposit to RCI situation.


----------



## jebloomquist

ronparise said:


> I didnt get a letter or email, but the use year adjustment happened in both my accounts today. I think lcml11 was probably right when he said those of us that use the points credit pool confused things for them.
> 
> I never used the "roll it forward" loophole, so this is something of a non event for me. My problem has never been how to extend the use of my points. I have the opposite problem..I usually run out, by mid year and have to buy more.
> 
> The surprise is; I got my adjustment points and they expire Dec 31 2014. Because I used the points credit pool I didnt expect an adjustment at all, or if I did get an adjustment, I  expected them to expire this year...so getting the full adjustment and having them expire next year, is a plus for me...Ill be able to add them into the points credit pool.and use them right now.
> 
> The question I have is: Is this a real bonus for me?  or just an adjustment.
> 
> I had already put all my points, no matter their expiration date (2014 and 2015) into the points credit pool...and in Jan 2014 expected to see all my 2016 expirations (mar, jun, sept and dec). I still expect to see all the 2016 points in Jan 2014 (and yes Ill put them in the credit pool too) so nothing has changed .
> 
> They say "if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck; its probably a duck.
> 
> The fact is my monthly maintenance fees didnt change...and in Jan Ill have the use of all my 2016 points.  Nothing changes in the way Im managing my account, but today I have an "extra" slug of points to use
> 
> This walks like a bonus and talks like a bonus..so Im going to treat it like a bonus and schedule a free vacation or two



In many of your posts, you have stated that you credit pool in order to use points as soon as you can. You may have found the "duck" that is a loophole in the realignment process. If you have already used your future points through credit pooling, and then you received additional points, it just might be a bonus for you, not just a realignment.


----------



## ronparise

jebloomquist said:


> In many of your posts, you have stated that you credit pool in order to use points as soon as you can. You may have found the "duck" that is a loophole in the realignment process. If you have already used your future points through credit pooling, and then you received additional points, it just might be a bonus for you, not just a realignment.



Thats the way it feels to me...like a bonus...I understand an accountant may be able to make the case that its not. But it sure feels like it

everything in my account (through 2015) had been credit pooled, (and most of it is in reservations. The number of points I had in the pool didnt change, and Ill have all the 2016 points available to pool in Jan 2014, just as before...and I have a million more points in the account today (which I credit pooled a few hours ago).

That I lose ARP is not an issue. I only have two contracts where I use ARP and both of them are (and have been)  Dec 31 expirations


----------



## lcml11

ronparise said:


> I didnt get a letter or email, but the use year adjustment happened in both my accounts today. I think lcml11 was probably right when he said those of us that use the points credit pool confused things for them.
> 
> I never used the "roll it forward" loophole, so this is something of a non event for me. My problem has never been how to extend the use of my points. I have the opposite problem..I usually run out, by mid year and have to buy more.
> 
> The surprise is; I got my adjustment points and they expire Dec 31 2014. Because I used the points credit pool I didnt expect an adjustment at all, or if I did get an adjustment, I  expected them to expire this year...so getting the full adjustment and having them expire next year, is a plus for me...Ill be able to add them into the points credit pool.and use them right now.
> 
> The question I have is: Is this a real bonus for me?  or just an adjustment.
> 
> I had already put all my points, no matter their expiration date (2014 and 2015) into the points credit pool...and in Jan 2014 expected to see all my 2016 expirations (mar, jun, sept and dec). I still expect to see all the 2016 points in Jan 2014 (and yes Ill put them in the credit pool too) so nothing has changed .
> 
> They say "if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck; its probably a duck.
> 
> The fact is my monthly maintenance fees didnt change...and in Jan Ill have the use of all my 2016 points.  Nothing changes in the way Im managing my account, but today I have an "extra" slug of points to use
> 
> This walks like a bonus and talks like a bonus..so Im going to treat it like a bonus and schedule a free vacation or two



Being the untrusting type that I am, I will plead guilty to that one, I have already all but used or commited my points for this year, including the adjustment points.


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## CruiseGuy

My resale contracts just transferred, although Wyndham placed them into two different accounts.  They're fixing this now.  But I asked if they would be adjusting the use year since the annual contract has an Oct 1 date and the biennial even contract has a Jan 1 date.

The rep told me that Wyndham won't be adjusting the dates since one contract is annual and the other is biennial.  That they would only do this if both contracts were annual.

Just wondering if anyone else with an annual and biennial contract with different contract start dates has had theirs adjusted?


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## jhoug

*Have both annual and biennial*

They adjusted all contracts to one use year


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## jebloomquist

The status of my Use Year End Dates is still unresolved. I have several contracts that state December 31, one that is September 30, and several which only state N/A. The weird thing is that my cancelled points are adjusted to a February 28 date.

I will be waiting to see what happens with cancelled points for reservations after February 28, 2014 but before September 30, 2014.

Jim


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## DancingWaters

*use year date*

I just received in the mail my new Bonnet Creek points   They did not add them to my other contract.   The new use year is December 31.  My other ones are June 30.  Bonnet Creek is an EOY even.  So if I have the option to move it to June 31, should I do it for ease in organizing? I did call and requested ted them to be aded to my existing contract but did not mention the change in use years.


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## CruiseGuy

The biennial points were just added to my account.  So far Wyndham has not adjusted the use years.  The annual points end Sept 30, and the biennial points end Dec 31.


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## littlestar

I just had a CWA contract added to my account from a resale purchase and it's got a July use year.  My other two Smoky Mt contracts are October use years.  So I wonder if it makes a difference with the new contract being a CWA contract?  Or if Wyndham will adjust all contracts to October eventually?


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## ronparise

littlestar said:


> I just had a CWA contract added to my account from a resale purchase and it's got a July use year.  My other two Smoky Mt contracts are October use years.  So I wonder if it makes a difference with the new contract being a CWA contract?  Or if Wyndham will adjust all contracts to October eventually?



Its not CWA specific

Last year my contracts were re-aligned so that everything became a Jan use year,  (Dec 31. expiration). Since then  Ive purchase several contracts some CWA and some not, with other than Jan use years,  and none of them have been re aligned

What the future will bring is anybody' s guess


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## littlestar

ronparise said:


> Its not CWA specific
> 
> Last year my contracts were re-aligned so that everything became a Jan use year,  (Dec 31. expiration). Since then  Ive purchase several contracts some CWA and some not, with other than Jan use years,  and none of them have been re aligned
> 
> What the future will bring is anybody' s guess



Thanks, Ron.


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## staceyeileen

I'm wondering if maybe they will do the re-alignment again in Jan?  I just purchased a July use year contract so am curious how that will work...


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## am1

Do a lot of people have points expiring end of september or December?  I expect a lot of competition for reservations.


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## jjmanthei05

am1 said:


> Do a lot of people have points expiring end of september or December?  I expect a lot of competition for reservations.



I would bet there would be quite a few at december since any converted fixed week is always Jan - Dec. I would get your reservations now if they are available. 

Jason


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## jhoug

*Pic points answer*



SOS8260456 said:


> Our Pic points are always one year from the date the PIC points hit our account.  We have 10 months from the check in date of our interval to decide to PIC it and then per the directory pg 299 (yes, I pulled it out and read it), we have one year from the date the points HIT our account, which is usually several weeks later.  This is based on the exact date and not rounded to the nearest month end.  So we have seen some pretty weird use year's in our account.  In one of our cases, the week is a December Ski week, we usually PIC it in Feb, the point are usually in our acct by early March.   We have one PIC unit that is a floating 1-52.  So I suppose, if we wanted to, we can finagle a different use year based on that.  But I think in the end, Wyndham is going to align this similiar to point pooling where the cancelled points end up in the earliest years.
> 
> I do see people's arguements and reasons for having the various use years.  I think that if you win the battle, what will happen is that instead of the cancelled points rolling forward, they will roll back into the earliest use year.
> 
> I think that instead of just changing everyone's use year automatically to calendar year, they should have allowed each account owner to select their preferred use year and then move the other contracts accordingly.  This would have been more owner friendly.



WELL SOS8260456 and lcm11
Here's your answer about what Wyndham will do with the Pic points. 
I am not sure if the dates below apply to just me, or if others will get a similar letter after they PIC their week.  I just recently PIC'd mine in the last 2-4 weeks. 

"August 7, 2013


RE: PIC Use Year Changes 


Dear Valued CLUB WYNDHAM Owner:

We are _pleased_ to inform you of an upcoming change to your CLUB WYNDHAMÂ® Plus membership that will _simplify_ your usage and _allow us to better serve you_. 

As you may know, all contracts in the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus programs have one of four â€œUse Yearsâ€: 

Â·         Jan. 1 to Dec. 31
Â·         April 1 to March 31 
Â·         July 1 to June 30 
Â·         Oct. 1 to Sept. 30

In an effort to simplify your vacation planning experience, as of August, 8, 2013, you will now have the option to deposit your Personal Interval Choice (PIC) Plus points into either your current Use Year or your next Use Year when you call to make your PIC deposit, giving you just one date to remember for using all of your points. Please note this change will apply to future deposits only.

If you have any questions related to this matter, please call a vacation guide at 1-800-251-8736. 
We look forward to assisting you with all of your vacation needs and appreciate the opportunity to be of service. 

Sincerely,

CLUB WYNDHAM Plus"

Italics added.  My account was working just fine. 
Don't know that any changes Wyndham makes is ever to better serve me.


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