# Newbie...need help (Shell) [3 threads merged]



## Hbushey (Aug 26, 2015)

I've been trying to do some research on tugs and Internet.  We are thinking of buying into Shell...or rather taking over one of the many free offered contracts.  I haven't been able to find answers to a few questions.

We are looking to stay at properties in San Diego, Anaheim, Napa and San Fransisco on short 3-4 day trips in a 2 bedroom unit.  I found you can rent a unit directly from Wyndham, but the 2 bedroom units are never available.  That specifically has prompted me to looking at ownership.  So questions:

1.  Are there 2 different kinds of ownerships?  One point based and one with deeded weeks at a specific resort?
2.  I have seen listings for a floating week at a specific resort, does this translate into points that can be used at any Home Club resort?  (Ie. Shell Club West) or can you only use a full week at that specific resort?
3.  Is there any booking advantage to buying at a specific resort or is the booking window the same for the entire West Home Club?
4.  Would there be significant difficulty in securing a 2 bedroom at any of the above properties with the Home Club booking window?
5.  Is the Home Club booking advantage lost if you are booking less than a week?

I'm afraid of taking the plunge only to find out I can't even book the 2 bedroom in short stays as a member...

Thanks 
Heather


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 26, 2015)

Shell is great in many ways ...

I also own in the West Club ... about 8000 points; all resale; all like FREE except for the MFs every year. The entire WEST club of resorts is the early booking window; I have been booking in the PHX though ... Americana Club? I want to go to the WEST Club resorts ... just have not convinced my travelling siblings to SKIP AZ Spring Training.

The HOME BOOKING window for the club does NOT require you to book 7 nights. There are fees for several booking things - Housekeeping Credits and Reservation Transactions. You get SOME free based on HOW many points you have for both RT and HKs.

HKs...Some OLDER Shell accounts come with unlimited Housekeeping credits (hard to find and NOT CHEAP or FREE accounts). Housekeeping credits are for turning over the unit each time ... book 10 nights - one housekeeping; book 4 nights - one housekeeping. If you get hit with HK fees, it is based on the unit size.

eBay makes you list a location ... Shell did NOT sell fixed weeks but resorts they took over might have been sold earlier as fixed weeks.

As for 2bdr units: most Shell built resorts (not taken over from another chain NOR a "city" location) were built as 2/2 lockouts ... so a 1bdr and a ST forms the 2/2 unit ... no stand alone 1 bdr nor ST nor 2/2 ... all units built as park of the lockout. 

Home Resort is NOT lost on a short stay ... 

NOW to warn you ... I am an expert in Wyndham and all things Wyndham ... Shell Vacation Club is NEWER to me ... if other Shell owners post that I have it WRONG ... then I will agree ... but this so far has been my experience in playing with the Shell Reservation system ...


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## presley (Aug 26, 2015)

I also own Shell West club. That is what you want if you want to book all the areas that you mentioned.

1.) Yes. There are old contracts that were for weeks. As far as I know, you can no longer buy a week run by Shell, unless you happen to get one resale.

2.)  A float unit means it hasn't been converted to points and it can't be used for Shell Club bookings.

3.)  When you buy West Club, it makes no difference which resort the contract was originally tied to.  Mine was tied to Fisherman's Wharf, but I have home booking advantage at all West Club properties.

4.)  None.

5.)  I believe it is. I know I've tried to book less than a week a year in advance and it wouldn't let me because it said I wasn't booking the minimum number of days required for booking 12 months in advance. I never looked into when that goes away. It's possible that someone could book 4 nights if only 4 nights are available at the time, but I honestly don't know.

EDIT: I found this on the Shell website. This only applies to the West Club. Other clubs may vary.
minimum stay 308 days or more in advance - 7 nights
minimum stay 61-307 days in advance -2 nights
one night stays available 60 days or less.


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## Ty1on (Aug 26, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> American Club



So close.....Americana 

"Everything that couldn't be stuffed in California, Hawaii, or Canada" didn't roll off the tongue well enough.


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## Hbushey (Aug 26, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the quick responses.  I'm new to time sharing in general and have been thinking about it for about a year after staying in my moms HGVC 2 bedroom in Marbrisa.  It was so fantastic to have the separate spaces with the kids!  We were originally looking at HGVC, but with Shell we get the locations we want and the Free aspect means our MF are paid for like 10 years compared to the initial out of pocket for HGVC.

One last question.
Do the Shell points trade directly into Wyndham since they took over or do you have to go through the trade company for that?
If so, what kind of booking window is there?


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## Ty1on (Aug 26, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> Thanks everyone for the quick responses.  I'm new to time sharing in general and have been thinking about it for about a year after staying in my moms HGVC 2 bedroom in Marbrisa.  It was so fantastic to have the separate spaces with the kids!  We were originally looking at HGVC, but with Shell we get the locations we want and the Free aspect means our MF are paid for like 10 years compared to the initial out of pocket for HGVC.
> 
> One last question.
> Do the Shell points trade directly into Wyndham since they took over or do you have to go through the trade company for that?
> If so, what kind of booking window is there?



You can't use Shell points for Wyndham properties, and unless Club Wyndham happens to own some intervals in shell properties, you can't use Wyndham points for Shell.

btw, look at the points requirements for the places you want to go, and check out the maintenance fees for that size contract.  Shell is pretty high, so there is a trade-off between up-front purchase (0) and ongoing maintenance fees.


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## alexadeparis (Aug 27, 2015)

Also you can't currently get at Wyndham inventory through Shell via Interval because most Wyndhams trade through RCI. There is talk of Shell going back to RCI as the exchange co in which case I will probably give away a contract.


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 27, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> Thanks everyone for the quick responses.  I'm new to time sharing in general and have been thinking about it for about a year after staying in my moms HGVC 2 bedroom in Marbrisa.  It was so fantastic to have the separate spaces with the kids!  We were originally looking at HGVC, but with Shell we get the locations we want and the Free aspect means our MF are paid for like 10 years compared to the initial out of pocket for HGVC.
> 
> One last question.
> Do the Shell points trade directly into Wyndham since they took over or do you have to go through the trade company for that?
> If so, what kind of booking window is there?



Heather,

Welcome to Tug.  I suggest you become a member - best $15 you'll spend this year.  One of the many bennies is access to the Timeshare reviews and also the Sightings Forum.


Richard


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## Hbushey (Aug 27, 2015)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Heather,
> 
> Welcome to Tug.  I suggest you become a member - best $15 you'll spend this year.  One of the many bennies is access to the Timeshare reviews and also the Sightings Forum.
> 
> ...



I did become a member when I first started looking last year.  It's been a great resource to try and understand everything.  I think I have found the right fit for my families current needs with Shell.  i think we will start small and add points if it works well for us.  I saw on earlier postings as long as it's the same club you can combine contracts and pay less MF.  I really like that so I can minimize my commitment until I know if timesharing is right for us.

Thanks!


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## Hbushey (Aug 27, 2015)

*One Last Question*

I was noticing on the Shell website the Oregon and Wisconsin properties are not listed.  Did these properties leave the Shell Vacation Club?  Whispering woods and Little Sweeden.


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## presley (Aug 27, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> I was noticing on the Shell website the Oregon and Wisconsin properties are not listed.  Did these properties leave the Shell Vacation Club?  Whispering woods and Little Sweeden.



They are both in the club. Whispering Woods is part of the West club.


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## MULTIZ321 (Aug 27, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> I did become a member when I first started looking last year.  It's been a great resource to try and understand everything.  I think I have found the right fit for my families current needs with Shell.  i think we will start small and add points if it works well for us.  I saw on earlier postings as long as it's the same club you can combine contracts and pay less MF.  I really like that so I can minimize my commitment until I know if timesharing is right for us.
> 
> Thanks!



Hi Heather,

See this Tug posting for how to change your status from 'Guest' to 'Member'

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230160


Best regards,

Richard


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## alexadeparis (Aug 27, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> I was noticing on the Shell website the Oregon and Wisconsin properties are not listed.  Did these properties leave the Shell Vacation Club?  Whispering woods and Little Sweeden.



Little Sweden is in Americana club.


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## team2win (Aug 29, 2015)

*be careful purchasing shell/wyndham*

If you haven't gathered by now, Shell Vacation Club was purchased by Wyndham. Wyndham is expert in getting more money from it's membership base, unlike Shell Vacation Club. It will matter how many points you buy, because the point values that are currently in place, may not be the point values after you buy.

1. I recently found out yesterday that Desert Rose Resort Sep 19th, now requires 1950 points for ONE NIGHT, previously, like Sep 4th and the following weekend and all previously this year the point value was 1650 or less for a Friday or Saturday night. So they are increasing point values without any notificaions, votes, etc.. The reason this is significant, this is requires more points than the flagship Vino Bello Resort in Napa and Desert Rose Resort isn't nearly the resort Vino Bello is. I'm sure this scenario will happen with other resorts, I just haven't looked.

2. Shell is now run fully by Wyndham which means inventory manipulation, blackouts, etc will be much more common place for Shell Club point owners. I've been at the counter at The Donatello about why no inventory any longer with long time shell points owners arguing with front desk personnel about dried up inventory, but yet, you can go to Wyndham Extra Holidays and reserve using rentals, lmao.

3. It does matter which club you own in with regard to maintenance fees.
Here's the maintenance fee breakdown from 2015 - Wyndham numbers: The Americana club & West Clubs are the most expensive in my opinion because of the .23 per point value vs other clubs under .20. Again, the amount of points you have in a club does matter. Make sure you purchase in 1 club, cause if you purchase in 2 different clubs, you have two Base points fees, plus 2 separate variable rates, meaning 2 separate maintenance fee accounts.

Shell Base Points: 2015
Club Fee: $165 for resale - Founding
Premier Club Fee: $486
Elite Club Fee: $583
Americana: 1250 base points: $321.91, .2331 variable rate
Hawaii: 2000 base points: $601.97, .1899 variable rate
Pacific: 1250 base points: $398.38, .2354 variable rate
West: 1350 base points: 330.41, .1975 variable rate

Here's the breakdown prior to Wyndham owning Shell Vacation Club, huge different in maintenance fees now. With probably a rise every year.

Shell West Club
Base: $325 for first 1350 points and .165 points thereafter
Club fee: $152
Total: $477

Shell Hawaii Club
Base:  $560 for first 2000 points and .165 points thereafter
Club fee: $152
Total: $712

4. There used to be 15 days or less a great point rental program, .15 cents a point with Shell, now Wyndham put their twist on it. If they have discounted points, meaning, they reduced the points for the dates you need, you NO LONGER can get the .15 cent per point rental deduction, you have to pay .25 cents per point to rent the points. So now, you may notice discounted points on certain days at certain resorts within 15 days, so members can't take advantage of the .15 cent a point rental rate.

5. The computer system with Shell Vacation Club(points owners) and Wyndham Extra Holidays(THE RENTAL WEBSITE) nearly mirror each other. You can basically go to Wyndham Extra Holidays and check availability and it will nearly be identical to logging into your shell vacation club account and looking for availability. 

Good luck and welcome to the madness...


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## Ty1on (Aug 29, 2015)

team2win said:


> If you haven't gathered by now, Shell Vacation Club was purchased by Wyndham. Wyndham is expert in getting more money from it's membership base, unlike Shell Vacation Club. It will matter how many points you buy, because the point values that are currently in place, may not be the point values after you buy.
> 
> 1. I recently found out yesterday that Desert Rose Resort Sep 19th, now requires 1950 points for ONE NIGHT, previously, like Sep 4th and the following weekend and all previously this year the point value was 1650 or less for a Friday or Saturday night. So they are increasing point values without any notificaions, votes, etc.. The reason this is significant, this is requires more points than the flagship Vino Bello Resort in Napa and Desert Rose Resort isn't nearly the resort Vino Bello is. I'm sure this scenario will happen with other resorts, I just haven't looked.
> 
> ...



In fairness, it should be noted that while Shell's cost of ownership was less expensive, it was entering into Chapter 7 bankrupcy when Wyndham bought it.  Chapter 7 is liqudation of assets, not protection from creditors.

I can't agree or disagree with Wyndham's handling of inventory, etc., because I haven't experienced it, but it wouldn't make sense to take over a bankrupt organization and run it status quo.  I read that Americana SOA was  in a $3M deficit when Wyndham took over.


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## Bill4728 (Aug 29, 2015)

I own 3 weeks at Shell's mountainside lodge in Whistler BC which are not associated with shell vacations. The cost to convert these weeks to Shell (SVC) was outrageous. This worked for us because we wanted to go to Whistler most of the time.


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## Hbushey (Aug 30, 2015)

*Newbie...need help (Shell)*

I've beening lurking and thinking about buying into a timeshare...  The more I learn the more hesitant I am to making the jump.

I live within an 8 hr drive to just about any location in California.  It's a beautiful state and we love visiting but we don't do it nearly enough.  I'm looking to purchase Worldmark or take over a Shell West membership.  We want to have short weekend trips into resorts in California.  Anaheim, San Diego, San Fransisco, Napa primarily with 2 kids.  We want 2 bedroom units.

Reading about megarenters and Wyndham reserving until for their own rental market I'm concerned the point based systems are some kind of scheme where unsuspecting consumers pay each year then never get an opportunity to stay.  The forums of tips for getting reservations through Worldmark scared me.  Having to book "throw away" weeks just to get a reservation?!?

Are there any consumer protections in laws for us?  Is there a limit to the number of points/ memberships that can be issued.  Can Wyndham arbitrarily raise point cost to book a unit so they can add and then sell more memberships?  If there are more memberships and points then rooms then what are you buying and paying for?

For shell owners, is booking less than a week long stay in the following resorts each year within the allowed booking window for short stays impossible?

1.  Vino
2.  Suites at Fishermans wharf
3.  Peacock
4.  Inn at the Park

Thanks!


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## tschwa2 (Aug 30, 2015)

I am not familiar with the partial week booking window for shell but would you be able to choose a weekend and commit as soon as the booking window opens up be it 8, 10 or 12 months in advance?  Would you have some flexibility that if your first choice in date and location are not available other weekends would work?  Are you aware that the points requirement for weekends are quite a bit higher than weekday stays?


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## taterhed (Aug 30, 2015)

I'll make a few brief statements ( I need to be less long-winded here)


Worldmark is trading very fluently now. Almost like cash. Buy, sell, rent, trade. Affordable, buy small and rent if needed. Don't like it, sell it. Small loss and small Mx fees. Can't use? Rent out points.
If you 'over-read' the advanced trading/booking techniques, then I'm sure you're overwhelmed. just because there are many avenues to trade/book doesn't mean you must use them all or need to.  If you're trying to find ways to defeat the rules designed to prevent people from snatching up the best 3 day weekends in peak season (ruining the week for others) then you'll need to work for it.  If you see a Thur/Fri (only) or partial week open at a great property...then book it if it lets you.  how hard was that?
If you are close enough to drive, then find something you can see and book it, exchange for it or use bonus time (cash for stay).Go look at the Worldmark right now and see what specials you could drive to on a long weekend.
Want to try exchanges? RCI or II or any of the secondary (open membership) ones. Even SFX.
JMHO beats W (unless you have the big points power) beats shell (MF's and Wyndham). 
Worst case? you spend a few grand on vacations and decide to sell. Best? you exchange into a HGVC shoulder week for 4000 points ($250 + HKT+exchange fee).

That seems shorter.


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## Hbushey (Aug 30, 2015)

tschwa2 said:


> I am not familiar with the partial week booking window for shell but would you be able to choose a weekend and commit as soon as the booking window opens up be it 8, 10 or 12 months in advance?  Would you have some flexibility that if your first choice in date and location are not available other weekends would work?  Are you aware that the points requirement for weekends are quite a bit higher than weekday stays?



I was told For Shell West it is 308 days out from another Tugger in a previous post.

I would stay probably Sat-Tues on weekends during school year (off season) where the kids had a long weekend (Monday off).  For example Presidents' Day, Columbus day, Martin Luther King day etc...  They also have some random Monday's for teacher prep.  I would know what days these are when the school calendar comes out about a year ahead of time.  I was looking to book mostly in the off season because I really don't like crowds and my points would go further.  Disneyland in January, Sea World in Setember or October  for example...

I don't want to have to set my alarm and sit by the computer trying to book when the lottery opens with 10,000 other people like trying to get good concert tickets...  I would try to book within a few days or a week of the booking window opening though.

I found point charts for Shell on tuggs, but they are older.  I would think this is a set amount for the current resorts as there would be a set number of rooms and days when those resorts went up and memberships were sold.  The wild card is, can Wyndham arbitrarily sell more points then there are rooms and days?  Can they change the point cost for a room arbitrarily to add more memberships to sell or are the number of points available for a specific resort set in stone and protected by contract or law?


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## Hbushey (Aug 30, 2015)

taterhed said:


> I'll make a few brief statements ( I need to be less long-winded here)
> 
> 
> Worldmark is trading very fluently now. Almost like cash. Buy, sell, rent, trade. Affordable, buy small and rent if needed. Don't like it, sell it. Small loss and small Mx fees. Can't use? Rent out points.
> ...



I was starting to consider Worldmark more but after reading the trouble with reservations I got scared.  I found links for the available Monday Madness currently and none of the places I wanted were there except San Diego location that posters referred to as being in a questionable neighborhood.  I worried that the locations I want are the desireable resorts that people scheme to get and feel like they won the lottery when they finally secure a reservation.

Funny you mentioned HGVC, it was after a stay last September at the Marbrisa on my moms timeshare that I started looking.  We almost bought an HGVC contract at that time, but backed out after the seller misrepresented things.  Now I'm afraid to outlay such a huge sum and not be able to book.  We want the 2 bedroom places.

We tried VRBO for a trip to Disneyland but after security deposits, housekeeping fees and high per night cost it was $1350 for four nights.  It also had a lot of deferred maintenance and we had to get up extra early to was all the linens in order to get our deposit back.  

I guess I'm looking for a 2 bedroom like the Marbrisa.  If I'm paying $150 for housekeeping I don't want to stick around and clean and do laundry.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 30, 2015)

I have VIP-level status with Wyndham points. My sibling collection has mostly move to the Western US. I don't like the idea of paying MFs to Wyndham and then add another $99 to reserve a Shell resort -- if I can get anything that matches the "siblings' idea" of using timeshares for a get-together.

I also own Shell ... before taking on the Shell membership, I visited a Shell resort WHERE I knew I could get the tribe to roost ... and the resort was perfect. Two of my siblings did come & stay 4 or 5 nights the 1st year after getting a FREE contract ... and it was great. The next year ... I got ALL of them to come during a 10 night stay I have booked for me plus extra space for a LONG weekend (I had also acquired MORE Shell points & booked one of those short stays via Wyndham points).

Did I care if Shell might have higher MFs than my Wyndham points?  AND no as the difference was NOT a jaw dropping number. I was hoping I could get the midMarch stays I wanted for Spring Training ... and mostly weekends as my nearest and HARDEST family member could only attend (plus a 2nd family member is also working).

So I could book 10 months in advance with my Shell points; book multiple units; checking in on all of them; ask to be kept in the same building (no problem). 

And we all loved the resort - gas BBQs, nice tennis courts; pretty golf course; large pool, clean & well stocked unit; good parking; midweek reset. Yes, I have been around Wyndham for YEARS .. some of this no doubt will change somewhat.

But as any timeshare owner knows ... plan way far in advance for PRIME season trips and cancel within the window in that system; know the banking rules; use the external exchange company as a last resort.

And I got several contracts ... I can slim down ... and as they were FREE.

PS Wyndham has Ovation in play with their Wyndham points system... and it seems to be very well used by owners. Will they put it "in play" for their other timeshare systems? Or is the question, really HOW long til they offer a version of Ovation within the other 2 systems?


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## Hbushey (Aug 30, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> I have VIP-level status with Wyndham points. My sibling collection has mostly move to the Western US. I don't like the idea of paying MFs to Wyndham and then add another $99 to reserve a Shell resort -- if I can get anything that matches the "siblings' idea" of using timeshares for a get-together.
> 
> I also own Shell ... before taking on the Shell membership, I visited a Shell resort WHERE I knew I could get the tribe to roost ... and the resort was perfect. Two of my siblings did come & stay 4 or 5 nights the 1st year after getting a FREE contract ... and it was great. The next year ... I got ALL of them to come during a 10 night stay I have booked for me plus extra space for a LONG weekend (I had also acquired MORE Shell points & booked one of those short stays via Wyndham points).
> 
> ...



The higher maintenance fees don't bother me either IF I'm able to use it.  Do the higher maintenance fees keep the megarenters that are a problem with Worldmark from using Shell?  Does the home resort booking window mean you can book what you want each year with some flexibility on when...

Have you tried to book Vino, Suites at Fishermans wharf, Peacock or Inn at the Park?  If so what did availability look like?


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## taterhed (Aug 30, 2015)

Not sure about the laundry comment. Maybe you don't understand HKT's?

 Good luck with your search.
 I own two Marriott's.  I like nice digs.  Hilton is also very nice....Marriott was just a better fit.  But, it ain't cheap.

 There have a been a few free HGVC's:  1 br EOY etc... but still over $1000 mf's for max 1 br.  Marriott trades well, but again....MF's over $1000 (well over) and always trading.  Plus, ROFR to defeat with most of these.

 I own WM as well:  because the fun isn't just the kill, it's in the hunt.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 30, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> The higher maintenance fees don't bother me either IF I'm able to use it.  Do the higher maintenance fees keep the megarenters that are a problem with Worldmark from using Shell?  Does the home resort booking window mean you can book what you want each year with some flexibility on when...
> 
> Have you tried to book Vino, Suites at Fishermans wharf, Peacock or Inn at the Park?  If so what did availability look like?



I looked at Inn at the Park for a niece wedding .... in late July for March dates. I hate flying 3000 plus miles for a 2 night wedding in a vineyard 45 miles east of San Diego. Wide open ... no problem. Was waiting for MORE definite dates before booking pre/post stays with some of the gang.

Timeshares are still a more RESORT idea thing. Or where there are BIG PARTIES with limited access (New Orleans with its Gulf and swamps) or the beaches or theme parks. Cities tend to have hotels with "booking engines" groups. And you have to have a LARGE population who can DRIVE to a resort. In many ways with a full kitchen & living room ... it is a family vacation attraction life style.


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## Hbushey (Aug 30, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> I looked at Inn at the Park for a niece wedding .... in late July for March dates. I hate flying 3000 plus miles for a 2 night wedding in a vineyard 45 miles east of San Diego. Wide open ... no problem. Was waiting for MORE definite dates before booking pre/post stays with some of the gang.
> 
> Timeshares are still a more RESORT idea thing. Or where there are BIG PARTIES with limited access (New Orleans with its Gulf and swamps) or the beaches or theme parks. Cities tend to have hotels with "booking engines" groups. And you have to have a LARGE population who can DRIVE to a resort. In many ways with a full kitchen & living room ... it is a family vacation attraction life style.



Thanks, I think I'm going to have to take the plunge to feel things out completely.  I'm hoping if it doesn't work out I can give it away by paying closing costs like I'm doing to acquire it...


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## bnoble (Aug 30, 2015)

> I don't want to have to set my alarm and sit by the computer trying to book when the lottery opens with 10,000 other people like trying to get good concert tickets... I would try to book within a few days or a week of the booking window opening though.


One caveat: If you aren't willing to at least try to book right when the window opens, school holiday weekends (the times are you are considering) at popular family destinations (e.g. Anaheim) are going to be hard.

If it were me, I'd commit to doing what needed to be done to book what I wanted, or I'd just rent from someone who is more willing to do it.


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## Hbushey (Aug 30, 2015)

taterhed said:


> Not sure about the laundry comment. Maybe you don't understand HKT's?
> 
> Good luck with your search.
> I own two Marriott's.  I like nice digs.  Hilton is also very nice....Marriott was just a better fit.  But, it ain't cheap.
> ...



It was referencing our trying to rent a condo (not a timeshare condo) from an owner.  We had to stay and clean, do the laundry so we could get a $500 deposit back.  That's why I'm back looking at timeshares to get the 2 bedroom units we are looking for.

From what I understand you have two HK tokens a year (Shell).  Every visit requires 1 token (cleaning when you leave).  If you need more you have to buy them.  If it is a week stay do you have to use 2 tokens (one cleaning at day 4 and one when you leave)?

I'm looking for the hotel aspect of it being cleaned and well maintained but in larger 2 bedroom units.  Those units seem hard to book and very expensive outside the timeshare market.


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## Hbushey (Aug 30, 2015)

bnoble said:


> One caveat: If you aren't willing to at least try to book right when the window opens, school holiday weekends (the times are you are considering) at popular family destinations (e.g. Anaheim) are going to be hard.
> 
> If it were me, I'd commit to doing what needed to be done to book what I wanted, or I'd just rent from someone who is more willing to do it.



I am willing to work, but I don't know how good I'd be at manipulating the system...

I don't want to work that hard for every reservation...


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## taterhed (Aug 30, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> It was referencing our trying to rent a condo (not a timeshare condo) from an owner. We had to stay and clean, do the laundry so we could get a $500 deposit back. That's why I'm back looking at timeshares to get the 2 bedroom units we are looking for.
> 
> From what I understand you have two HK tokens a year (Shell). Every visit requires 1 token (cleaning when you leave). If you need more you have to buy them. If it is a week stay do you have to use 2 tokens (one cleaning at day 4 and one when you leave)?
> 
> I'm looking for the hotel aspect of it being cleaned and well maintained but in larger 2 bedroom units. Those units seem hard to book and very expensive outside the timeshare market.


 
 Gotcha.  Yup, you're right.  Many VRBO's require cleaning fees (just like WM or SVC) of $150.  That's been our experience.


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## vacationhopeful (Aug 30, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> It was referencing our trying to rent a condo (not a timeshare condo) from an owner.  We had to stay and clean, do the laundry so we could get a $500 deposit back.  That's why I'm back looking at timeshares to get the 2 bedroom units we are looking for.
> 
> From what I understand you have two HK tokens a year (Shell).  Every visit requires 1 token (cleaning when you leave).  If you need more you have to buy them.  If it is a week stay do you have to use 2 tokens (one cleaning at day 4 and one when you leave)?
> 
> I'm looking for the hotel aspect of it being cleaned and well maintained but in larger 2 bedroom units.  Those units seem hard to book and very expensive outside the timeshare market.



HK tokens are for the STAY ... whether it is 1 night or 10 nights. Shell allows you to book LONGER than 7 nights on a reservation ... ie checkin FRIDAY and leave on the 2nd Sunday. Planning and understanding the "rules" is required to use ANY timeshare product.

I just hate it that I have to KNOW Wyndham, DVC, Shell and RCI Points plus be able to exchange thru RCI, II and VRI. TUG is a BIG help.

A family friend has a vacation home ... when they first got it, they rented it out weekly/weekends. Every Sunday after a renter left was the day to drive 125 miles each way to clean & reset the unit, to haul the trash back and then wash the linens. On Monday, the favorite descriptive words of the day were SLOBS & PIGS.... every rental payment went to paying extra on the principal of the 20 year mortgage note. Multiple times, the 10AM checkout was not met - several times, the guest(s) decided Sunday was whatever day they decided to leave on.  They ALWAYS carried a set of locks - rotating locks after every few rentals or after some "character". Yes, they had written contracts and carried a camera. Now, when asked if they still rent the place ... the replied phrase is clearly "N(F)W".


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## Hbushey (Aug 30, 2015)

vacationhopeful said:


> HK tokens are for the STAY ... whether it is 1 night or 10 nights. Shell allows you to book LONGER than 7 nights on a reservation ... ie checkin FRIDAY and leave on the 2nd Sunday. Planning and understanding the "rules" is required to use ANY timeshare product.
> 
> I just hate it that I have to KNOW Wyndham, DVC, Shell and RCI Points plus be able to exchange thru RCI, II and VRI. TUG is a BIG help.
> 
> A family friend has a vacation home ... when they first got it, they rented it out weekly/weekends. Every Sunday after a renter left was the day to drive 125 miles each way to clean & reset the unit, to haul the trash back and then wash the linens. On Monday, the favorite descriptive words of the day were SLOBS & PIGS.... every rental payment went to paying extra on the principal of the 20 year mortgage note. Multiple times, the 10AM checkout was not met - several times, the guest(s) decided Sunday was whatever day they decided to leave on.  They ALWAYS carried a set of locks - rotating locks after every few rentals or after some "character". Yes, they had written contracts and carried a camera. Now, when asked if they still rent the place ... the replied phrase is clearly "N(F)W".



I totally understood why the security deposits etc...  But we also paid $150 housekeeping AND had to wash all the linens.  Hard to do the linens when you have to sleep in them that night and use towels to shower in the morning.  Then they won't all fit in one load.  We stayed several hours cleaning and doing laundry.  Total PIA.  We just discovered that renting from a homeowner was too big of a hassle compared to my moms timeshare we stayed at, so here I am looking again 

I'm trying really hard to understand it all so I don't feel trapped and feeling like a made a big mistake because of some element I didn't get before I dove in.  Thank god for this website and all the wonderful people who are willing to share their experiences!


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## itschoice (Aug 30, 2015)

Here are my completed and pending reservations for Worldmark (at the end) since June 2009. No need to be afraid of what you see being posted.

 I became an owner in June of 2009 and started with 7000 credits. I just added another 5000 credits which brings me to a total of 33k credits. I follow all booking guidelines and there is no "scheming" to get a reservation. I have in fact made it my goal to book the locations during the times that most complain about not getting (Depoe Bay and Seaside ocean front on the 4th of July). I have never used "throw away weeks" nor have I ever used a single "throw away day." I plan my summer vacations and start following the booking calendar about 14 months out, I devise a strategy following WM guidelines, and I book those summer vacation units first. Once I have those reservations for the year I then plan the rest of the holiday stays that I am booking for less than 7 days and I start booking as soon as 9 months out. What I can not get I waitlist which is also within the guidelines. 

I posted this on FB the other day because of the many complaints by those that have been owners since before the online booking system. They use to have to call in or mail a letter stating when and where they wanted to travel. I was not around at the time but this is why I think they are so upset:
"Since booking was done without owners being able to see availability I bet it gave the false sense that there was a ton of availability since you could not see what was actually there. So you call in give the dates you want to travel during and they tell you we have a, b, or c available and you then have to pick from only that. Now the perceptions is we have 70 locations in existence and I want to go to location c Then you check if c is bookable and get disappointed because its not. All the options were not available to you before but you just never knew that to be the case."

I love my Worldmark and would not trade it in for the world. All the Anaheim and Dolphins Cove reservations I have pending, 4 total, I just made over the last month. Two are for 6 days, one is for 5 days, and one is for 3 days. Both locations are within a mile and a half of Disney and Dolphins Cove is considered the more difficult one to get into. All 4 reservations are for holidays, 1 for Thanksgiving week, 1 for Christmas/New Years school break time, 1 for spring break, and the last is a holiday weekend in May.

You must be flexible and book things as they come up. You have to check availability and watch to see how many units are left. Then when it starts to get low book it and decide later if you are actually going to go. Don't use "throw away days" but use place holders, which are called "lead in days," and waitlist to replace the place holder with the day you really want. You are reading the negative threads by people that just want to stir the pot. Read instead the responses that those threads get and you will come close to the truth as to what WM is like.

WM VISITED: Indio (12x), Big Bear, Solvang (3x), Orlando, Anaheim (3x), Depoe Bay (2x), Angels Camp (4x), Running Y, Las Vegas Blvd (2x), Dolphins Cove, SD Mission Valley, Oceanside, Marina Dunes, Seaside, and Clear Lake 
WM PENDING: Palm Springs, Anaheim, Dolphins Cove (3x), Queen Mary, St. George (2x), Wolf Creek (2x), and Yellowstone.


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## itschoice (Aug 30, 2015)

Are there any consumer protections in laws for us? 
Not that I know of other than the basic ones. Like if you buy from the developer you have x number of days to cancel.

Is there a limit to the number of points/ memberships that can be issued. 
Yes, the number of points issue is based on units at a new location. Once sold for that location they cannot add more credits at that location. They have to add another location to create more credits. Its a formula, number of units based on size at the location times weeks per year, minus a week (or 2, I'm not sure) per unit for maintenance. However, if they add more units at that location then those units come with additional points.

Can Wyndham arbitrarily raise point cost to book a unit so they can add and then sell more memberships? 
Again no, the number of credits are determined when the location comes into the club and it can never be changed except for once and that was through court order. At that time it was to the benefit of the owners. Some locations reduced the points per unit. Others will argue that on the other hand we lost some units due to that court case so it was a wash IMO.

If there are more memberships and points then rooms then what are you buying and paying for?
There are not more memberships than point. The number of points is based on the number of units minus a maintenance week (see above).

AS for WYN renting out units, yes they can but only in the last month+ before the reservation (I can't remember if its 48 days, 52 day, something like that). This is because while they are waiting to sell the credits they own they are paying maintenance fee on them and they own them just like an owner. Also owners can trade their points back for cruises, city passes, air fare if they bought from the developer. WYN has to make back their costs for having provided this service and they prefer to do it through special offers open to everyone such as Monday Madness (MM) where you can use cash to make a reservation and save you credits for longer reservation since MM includes cleaning the unit in the cost. Both my St. George and Wolf Creek reservations I got last week using MM and one of my Dolphin Cove reservations as well. 

So lets say you want to go every summer to Anaheim for 10 day. At 13 months out most likely you will be able to book it directly. However, if you want Dolphins Cove in a 2 bedroom chances are that for the summer you may have to book Indio as a place holder for a day or 2 and group it with the remaining 8 days at Dolpins Cove. As you are on the phone booking this reservation you need to tell the person on the phone you want to waitlist the 2 Indio days at Dolphins Cove. 

So at 13 months out you will have a 2 day reservation at Indio and an 8 day reservation at Dolphins Cove. If you are driving in from the 10 you may want to use your Indio reservation. If you are coming from the north you may want to substitute Solvang or Angles Camp instead of Indio. If you are only wanting the Dolphins Cove reservation then you will have to wait and see if your waitlist comes through which it probably will. The above 2 paragraphs is what the complainers don't want to have to do to get the reservation they want or they never thought they could do the above even though its in the guidelines that WE CAN do this. The only catch is that both segments of the reservation, Indio and Anaheim need to be in red season. Indio has about a 3 week period in the summer that is white and blue season so you could not make your reservation during those weeks.


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## taterhed (Aug 30, 2015)

itschoice:

Nice post. Made more 'agreed' comments, but erased them.  Trying to slim down my posts.


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## presley (Aug 30, 2015)

I wouldn't suggest buying any contracts at this time. You can learn the systems and figure out availability by renting what you want from owners. There are lots of owners who cannot use all their points. If you find you can consistently get the reservations you want, then go ahead and take on a contract.

Booking short stays with Shell has been pretty easy. I don't have to follow the school schedules, though, so that may be more difficult. There are a few annoying things about booking Shell if you are having to hunt and peck for your reservations. You only get 2 free transactions per year. If you go over those 2 and you later book something and then cancel it, you will have paid 2 fees. Also, they don't have a waitlist.

With Worldmark, people do use lead in days. I don't do that. I use the wait list. That can take some work, but it did get me 5 nights in Yosemite during the high season. You basically wait list the days you want and if one comes available, you book it and continue to wait list the other days. Much more often than not, people get the reservation that they wanted. 

I wouldn't suggest Hilton for you unless you just want to stay in Carlsbad all the time. It sounds like you want to visit other parts of California. Shell would be good for that and Worldmark would be better than Shell just for the # locations.


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## Beefnot (Aug 31, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> Thanks, I think I'm going to have to take the plunge to feel things out completely. I'm hoping if it doesn't work out I can give it away by paying closing costs like I'm doing to acquire it...



I own a boatload of Shell points, almost certainly more than anyone else on earth, and I will tell you that while I have learned to love Shell's system, I would not recommend anyone take a plunge on a whim into SVC. Currently Shell has negative value. You would likely have to pony up a decent incentive to give away a contract. In current state, if you are only getting your closing costs paid, then you have "paid" too much for the Shell contract

The SVC site and booking engine are terrible, abysmal. Vino Bello's server is down at least five or six times per year, from a day or two to more than a week, during which time you are completely unable to make a reservation without making some specialized calls to corporate customer service. Sometimes a transaction does not go through but your credit card still gets charged.




Hbushey said:


> For shell owners, is booking less than a week long stay in the following resorts each year within the allowed booking window for short stays impossible?
> 
> 1. Vino
> 2. Suites at Fishermans wharf
> ...



For Vino Bello and Peacock Suites, other than perhaps a few very specific dates, you can pretty much get what you want at 3 months out, and if during the week even a few weeks out. Inn at the Park has pretty decent availability 2-3 months out, although if you want a 2br, you might look further in advance. But the Vino Bello and IaP 2br weekend rate points cost is insanely pricy in my opinion. Suites at Fisherman's Wharf is one I would highly suggest booking much further in advance. It by far has the tightest availability of any resort in the West collection.


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## Hbushey (Sep 1, 2015)

Thank you everyone for your input.  I think I've pretty much settled on Shell due to the locations I want and the biggest reason, that I primarily want to use points for multiple short stays <1week.  Shells liberal booking policy of 308 days out for stays <1week is what we need.  I found Worldmark only allows this at a 90day window and from what I've gathered from everyone it seems this IS not enough of a window to choose any specific days, just to pick from what's left.

Beefnot, thanks so much for the insight into availability.  That has been my biggest hold up.  My biggest fear has been commiting only to find out I can't get any reservations.  I know we will use up all our points and it will be worth it as my husband and I do shift work with 3-4 days off each week.  Commiting to the maintenance fees no matter what will motivate us to get out of town for a few days to breathe.  

So excited!!cheer:


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## taterhed (Sep 1, 2015)

Congrats.  Reply with your successes!


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## presley (Sep 1, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> I found Worldmark only allows this at a 90day window and from what I've gathered from everyone it seems this IS not enough of a window to choose any specific days, just to pick from what's left.



I'm not steering you away from Shell, but wanted to let you know that it is 10 months out that you book as short as one nights stay at Worldmark.


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## Hbushey (Sep 1, 2015)

*Cost of Shell rental points*

Can a current owner tell me the current cost of renting points from Shell?  We will be buying soon and trying to decide the right number of points for us.

Thanks


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## Hbushey (Sep 1, 2015)

presley said:


> I'm not steering you away from Shell, but wanted to let you know that it is 10 months out that you book as short as one nights stay at Worldmark.



That certainly changes things... 

I just googled it and found a FAQ on Worldmarks site that in Red Season you must book a full week until 90 days out.  All the locations I was interested in were Red Season year round.  Is the 10 months for just blue and white seasons?  It's hard to make a decision when only members can access all the policies...


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## Ty1on (Sep 1, 2015)

Points can only be rented in a 60 day window.  25c sticks in my mind, but I'm not certain.


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## Hbushey (Sep 1, 2015)

Ty1on said:


> Points can only be rented in a 60 day window.  25c sticks in my mind, but I'm not certain.



Thanks, is there a way or market to rent from other owners?


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## presley (Sep 1, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> Is that only if there is a less then one week block available.  That certainly changes things... I just googled it and found a FAQ on Worldmarks site, it might have been old?  It said 90 days.  It's hard to make a decision when only members can access all the policies...



Perhaps that is correct and I've just had luck on my side with the shorter reservations. I always book a few months out. I do use the wait list, but I haven't had any disappointments with booking shorter stays.


EDIT TO ADD: I just tested it by booking a 3 night stay the last weekend in March. The room was available for longer than 7 days and it let me book it for 3 nights - at least it took me all the way to the page where it wanted payment. Since I am not sure I want this, I didn't pay.

It's also letting me book a 2 night stay in June even though there are 6 nights available.


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## presley (Sep 1, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> Thanks, is there a way or market to rent from other owners?



Owners are allowed to transfer to each other. I never got clarity on exactly how that works. I would guess it counts as one of your 2 free transactions per year and that the rented in points would keep their same home club preference. 
I don't know how you'd market that, other than to post a points wanted request in the marketplace. 

I can't seem to find the rules/instructions on the website, but it is most likely there somewhere.

EDIT: Found it and some other stuff that may help you.

"Sharing

Any club member can transfer some or all of his or her points to another club member . This is called "sharing" points. Sharing is the only way that anyone else can use your points (except for points you transfer to the Association, the developer or Shell Vacations Club). There are several rules about sharing to keep in mind:

A. You can only share points to make a reservation in a particular year. You cannot use points sharing to transfer points permanently. Of course, this does not limit your ability to transfer your points and membership to someone else as described in your membership agreement.

B. The member who is sharing his or her points (called the "sharing member") must mail or fax written notice to the club. The notice must state (i) to whom the points are transferred (called the "receiving member"), (ii) how many points are being transferred (called the "shared points"), and (iii) the use year to which the shared points relate. The notice must be received by Shell Vacations Club within 14 days after the member requests a reservation. Shell Vacations Club will not confirm a reservation request using shared points unless it receives the written notice.

C. The receiving member may only use the shared points to reserve a vacation period during the use year of the sharing member to which the shared points relate.

D. There is no separate transaction fee for sharing points.

E. If you cancel a reservation made with shared points, any points refunded will be returned to the sharing member's points account (up to the full number of shared points). Any points to be refunded after that will be returned to the receiving member's points account, subject to any cancellation policy of the club.



Renting

In some cases you may be able to rent additional points from Shell Vacations Club. This is called "renting" points and it is governed by these rules.

A. You cannot rent points more than sixty (60) days before the check-in day of a use period.

B. At any given time, Shell Vacations Club may not have any points to rent or it may choose not to rent any points it may have.

C. Shell Vacations Club will set the price for renting points and may change the price from time to time. Payment by credit card will be required for renting points.

D. Shell Vacations Club may set other conditions for renting points. For example, if you rent points but decide not to use them, you may be entitled to a refund subject to the Shell Vacations Club cancellation policy.

E. Rental Pricing
EFFECTIVE: 2/10/03
Price Per Point (USD)

< 2,000 = $0.25/pt
2,000-3,450 = $0.23/pt
3,500-4,950 = $0.21/pt
5,000-7,450 = $0.19/pt
7,500-19,950 = $0.18/pt
20,000-29,950 = $0.17/pt
>30,000=$0.165/pt"


here's a link to a great info thread and while it is old, most of the info is current. http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44941
The main difference is that Shell will trade in II now and not RCI like it says in the thread.


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## itschoice (Sep 1, 2015)

What you looked at is old information. Through Worldmark you can book less than 7 days at 10 months in ANY SEASON and you can rent in points any time you want. There is no charge to rent in points other than paying the person you got them from and you can rent in as many and as often as you like. You can also use them just as you would your own points. You can split them into multiple reservations and you can rent in house keeping tokens too as long as you rent in 5000 credits with each token. So if the credits you rented in do not expire for 2 years (they were just awarded this month) then you have 2 years to make your reservation and you have an additional year to use that reservation. In other words you just need to make the reservation before they expire and that reservation can be anytime in that expression year.


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## Hbushey (Sep 3, 2015)

itschoice said:


> What you looked at is old information. Through Worldmark you can book less than 7 days at 10 months in ANY SEASON and you can rent in points any time you want. There is no charge to rent in points other than paying the person you got them from and you can rent in as many and as often as you like. You can also use them just as you would your own points. You can split them into multiple reservations and you can rent in house keeping tokens too as long as you rent in 5000 credits with each token. So if the credits you rented in do not expire for 2 years (they were just awarded this month) then you have 2 years to make your reservation and you have an additional year to use that reservation. In other words you just need to make the reservation before they expire and that reservation can be anytime in that expression year.



Oh my, now my mind has changed again... 
Good thing I didn't commit to anything yet!  The only thing pushing me to shell was the booking window.  

Thanks


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## itschoice (Sep 3, 2015)

I don't own Shell so I can't comment but I do love my Worldmark. If you have any other question just let us know. I think you will be happy with Worldmark. Let us know when you buy. We can help to get you off your feet making your fist reservations. What size account are you looking to get? And when and where do you want your first reservations?


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## Hbushey (Sep 4, 2015)

itschoice said:


> I don't own Shell so I can't comment but I do love my Worldmark. If you have any other question just let us know. I think you will be happy with Worldmark. Let us know when you buy. We can help to get you off your feet making your fist reservations. What size account are you looking to get? And when and where do you want your first reservations?



I'm thinking either 7000 or 10000 so I can get the MAX number out of my Maintenance Fees.  I'm looking mostly to the California resorts.  I think my first reservations would be to wherever I can get a short stay.  If I end up closing near the 13 month window for reserving a week in Hawaii over Spring break, I'll do that instead.  If I have a loaded contract I should be able to pull that off.  From what I've read I'll need to watch closely and possibly book some throw away days in Indio.

Thanks!


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## presley (Sep 4, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> From what I've read I'll need to watch closely and possibly book some throw away days in Indio.



Don't do that! I know lots of people book throwaway days, but you'll be stuck paying TOT for the Indio nights and paying for housekeeping. I think you can get it refunded later if you call in and tell them and say you never showed up, but you'd still have to pay upfront and then make a call later. 

I have a 7K account and I have been getting along fine without ever booking throwaway days. I do have to combine days by using the wait list sometimes, but at least WM does the hunting and pecking for me in those cases and I just need to make one call at the end to tell them to combine it all into one reservation. Be sure to read up on all the booking tricks on wmowners.com
You can save yourself some time by overlooking the political threads over there and just reading the ones about owning and using WM.

I also have 5K in Shell. I have found having small accounts in several systems works well. They both have special cash deals and Shell comes with gold II membership.


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## chellej (Sep 4, 2015)

itschoice said:


> What you looked at is old information. Through Worldmark you can book less than 7 days at 10 months in ANY SEASON and you can rent in points any time you want. There is no charge to rent in points other than paying the person you got them from and you can rent in as many and as often as you like. You can also use them just as you would your own points. You can split them into multiple reservations and you can rent in house keeping tokens too as long as you rent in 5000 credits with each token. So if the credits you rented in do not expire for 2 years (they were just awarded this month) then you have 2 years to make your reservation and you have an additional year to use that reservation. In other words you just need to make the reservation before they expire and that reservation can be anytime in that expression year.



The costs quoted in the previous thread are for renting points directly from shell... It actually can be slightly less than my fees for the Hawaii club which is .247 per point depending on how many points you rent.

I love my shell points.  If I book at 12 months I have no problem getting ocean front at the Kauai property (home club). 

 Today I was able to book a 5 night stay for my DD at the Donatello in December so she can attend a conference.    $645 for the week sure beats the $1755 + tax she would have to pay if outright renting it.


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## itschoice (Sep 4, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> I'm thinking either 7000 or 10000 so I can get the MAX number out of my Maintenance Fees.  I'm looking mostly to the California resorts.  I think my first reservations would be to wherever I can get a short stay.  If I end up closing near the 13 month window for reserving a week in Hawaii over Spring break, I'll do that instead.  If I have a loaded contract I should be able to pull that off.  From what I've read I'll need to watch closely and possibly book some throw away days in Indio.
> 
> Thanks!



Since you are looking at booking 2 bedroom units I would recommend a 10k account. Furthermore, if you start out with a 10k and you decide you want to add more credits the sweet spot is every 10k because not only does it maximize MF it also gives you an additional housekeeping token (HK) every 10k starting at the 20k mark. So, its easier to go from 10k to 20k than it is to go from 7k to 20k and at 20k you get 2 HK, 30k you get 3 HK.  

My guess is is that summer is more difficult to get Hawaii than Spring Break but I have not watched that booking calendar for that time period before. So basically sometime in early February you will need to start looking if Spring Break is in March or early March if Spring Break is in April. 

I don't believe in throwaway days and have never used them. I have used what I call placeholder days. So lets say Spring Break starts on Friday March 20th (I have no idea what the exact date is) and thats when I want to check-in on one of the islands in Hawaii. So on February 20th I go online and I find that the 20th and the 21st are already booked up but the 22nd through the 27th is still available. My plan is to fly out of San Diego. So I call reservations and have them book the 20th and the 21st in San Diego where if need be I can stay for 2 days. 

These are placeholder days though and I will probably never use them in San Diego but once the placeholder days come through in Hawaii I will use them there. But I have them connect those 2 days to the 22nd through the 27th in Hawaii making this a grouped reservation so I have the 7 day minimum.

Here is the important part. WHILE I STILL HAVE THEM ON THE PHONE, I have them make a waitlist for the 20th and the 21st at the same resort or on the same island in any 2 bedroom or larger unit in Hawaii. TAKE ANY DAY IN ANY UNIT SIZE THAT COMES UP. Also have them do a waitlist for any size unit for all the days you want to be in Hawaii because pieces may come available buried in a week that includes part of the days you want to be there.

Lets say your reservation for the 22nd to the 27th is in a 2 bedroom queen. You may have 1 night in a 2 bedroom twin on the 20th come through the waitlist and a 2 bedroom queen on the 21st that came through a waitlist. Book them both and then cancel the San Diego reservation. As the months get closer you will get the other night in the same unit as the one you reserved. If by rare chance the last day does not show up you may need to change units BUT who cares you are still in Hawaii anyway. 

Its probably clear as mud at this point but when you get to this point and you start making reservation you will get the idea. You can also ask someone for help at that time. I have helped a few people on Facebook get Hawaii reservations the same way. Often people will post on Facebook that they logged on today and were not able to make their weeks reservation this morning because there were none available today for 13 months out but that there were units available tomorrow. The first thing I ask is did you book today with a placeholder and grab tomorrow through the rest of the week? They end up dumfounded as to why they didn't make the reservation and once I explain they call in and then post they got the reservation.  

Moral of the story, don't ever let a reservation go because its one or 2 days out of reach. Book it with a placeholder and figure out how to change that placeholder through a waitlist later. Having 5/7 of your days booked is better than 0/7 at the place you want to go.

HOWEVER, ALL THE ABOVE BEING SAID, IF I WERE GOING TO HAWAII I would go through RCI and get a 5 star location.


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## itschoice (Sep 4, 2015)

chellej said:


> The costs quoted in the previous thread are for renting points directly from shell... It actually can be slightly less than my fees for the Hawaii club which is .247 per point depending on how many points you rent.
> 
> I love my shell points.  If I book at 12 months I have no problem getting ocean front at the Kauai property (home club).
> 
> Today I was able to book a 5 night stay for my DD at the Donatello in December so she can attend a conference.    $645 for the week sure beats the $1755 + tax she would have to pay if outright renting it.


I have no idea how Shell works but I have heard that the Donatello is nice. That sure is a great buy for that reservation. Congrats on getting it for your daughter!


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## Hbushey (Sep 8, 2015)

*Just won auction*

We are the new proud owners of a Worldmark 10,000 point contract!!  We just started the progress.  I'm pretty happy with the deal.  It's a loaded contract with an additional 7000 points held in a placeholder reservation due to use year of October.  There's no way we will close before then.

It cost us $0.35/ point (including all closing and transfer costs) which seemed like a good price from what I've read on tug.  So excited to start using it!  I understand the transfer process is long and we will be lucky to complete it before the new year.  We have a lot of points to use up in the next year!

Thank you everyone for your willingness to share your experiences!  I feel very confident I understand what I'm getting into with minimal uncertainty and that is all thanks to tug!

Any tips on how to change the placeholder reservation once that time comes?


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## itschoice (Sep 8, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> We are the new proud owners of a Worldmark 10,000 point contract!!  We just started the progress.  I'm pretty happy with the deal.  It's a loaded contract with an additional 7000 points held in a placeholder reservation due to use year of October.  There's no way we will close before then.
> 
> It cost us $0.35/ point (including all closing and transfer costs) which seemed like a good price from what I've read on tug.  So excited to start using it!  I understand the transfer process is long and we will be lucky to complete it before the new year.  We have a lot of points to use up in the next year!
> 
> ...



CONGRATS!!! It depends on the details of that reservation but in general to change that placeholder reservation all you have to do is make a reservation that is equal or more in number of credits for usage BEFORE that reservation. There is a thing called "first in first out" (FIFO) that will put the oldest credits into the soonest reservation. It should happen automatically over night. You can make the reservation online but DO NOT CANCEL the placeholder without calling in to find out if the credits moved. Sometimes the FIFO does not run or breaks down in some way so call to make sure.

So for example I bought an account in November. It had a surprise placeholder for Yellowstone booked for the following December. When everything was transferred and connected to my account I made a reservation for like spring break, called in a few days later to let FIFO run, and they said the credits were in fact in the spring break reservation so they canceled Yellowstone for me. The only thing to keep in mind you have to use that reservation. You cannot cancel it. You could change it again by doing the same thing but those credits have to always stay in a reservation.

You could probably break it up into more than one reservation also but if you were to forget and cancel one of the reservations you will lose the points in that reservation. Once the account is transferred to you, let us know and we can help you with more specifics.

You are going to love your account and good buy. You did well! Oh and there is a possibility that you will be able to access this account late November early December. It could even be sooner. The account I combined with mine November a year ago was ready to use by January and I bought it the Saturday after Thanksgiving. I even sat on the contract and didn't send it in until the last week because after I got it I realized it was due to get a new allotment of credits and That was to happen in January. At which point they would align it with my anniversary date and I would get new credits in June too. 

When I bought that contract I had no intention of buying or double dipping on the credits. I just wanted to see if I could get a deal of a lifetime. I came across it on eBay 15 minutes before it was going to close and it was 6,000 credits for $600. I showed my kids and they all said "Bid on it for fun mom!" So I came up with the most outlandish number I could think of that I knew would be a steal, something like $963 and with about 10 seconds to go on the timer I hit the bid button. As the screen cycled through I started to tell the kids it was impossible to get at that price and suddenly the words "You won" popped up...lol It was fully loaded and had the additional 4,000+ credits. I told the kids "Merry Christmas because thats all your getting for Christmas now that I'm broke!!!" :hysterical: They laughed and said they were fine with that. It ended up costing me like 17 cents per credit and I follow eBay prices and that was a once in a lifetime score. After that they started putting reserves on everything which they have just stopped putting as many in the last few month.

Prices have been going up and I so want to buy more before they get too much higher. But I need to wait another year I need to pay off some bills.


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## presley (Sep 9, 2015)

Hbushey said:


> It's a loaded contract with an additional 7000 points held in a placeholder reservation due to use year of October.  There's no way we will close before then.



If the points expire before you are able to change the reservation, it is very important that you call in to make the change. If you do so online, you'll lose the expired points. Also, when you call, make sure you tell the rep that the points are expired, as I've read cases where even the rep loses the points if they are not careful.


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