# Osama Bin Laden is dead [merged]



## DeniseM (May 1, 2011)

More info. - http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-killed/story?id=13505703

First reports say he was killed by a CIA drone in a Mansion in Pakistan.  The President will speak about it at 11:10.


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## DaveNV (May 1, 2011)

Now they're saying he was shot in the head, so it couldn't have been a drone.  And I should say, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy.

Dave


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## jackio (May 1, 2011)

I remember posting here on TUG on 9/11/01 after hearing Bin Laden's name for the first time.  It seems like so long ago...  
This must be a tremendous morale booster for the troops.


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## ace2000 (May 1, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> More info. - http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-killed/story?id=13505703
> 
> First reports say he was killed by a CIA drone in a Mansion in Pakistan. The President will speak about it at 11:10.


 
It is being reported that it was ground forces that killed Bin Laden.  Very good news!


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## MuranoJo (May 1, 2011)

Sounds like I can still catch it on the late news.  Wow.


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## schiff1997 (May 1, 2011)

May all the families who so tragically lost a loved one to this beast, finally have some closure and sleep peacefully tonight.  God bless


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## Transit (May 1, 2011)

Excellent


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## taffy19 (May 2, 2011)

schiff1997 said:


> May all the families who so tragically lost a loved one to this beast, finally have some closure and sleep peacefully tonight.  God bless


I agree.  I am also glad that this news didn't break while the Royal Wedding was going on in England.  That was big and happy news but this is bigger news yet.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 2, 2011)

The terrorist mastermind is dead.  And the martyrdom will begin.


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## Phill12 (May 2, 2011)

I hear it was a special forces group that was sent in and they have his body as proof! I'm glad it was the American fighting men that killed him. 


 PHILL12


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## pjrose (May 2, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The terrorist mastermind is dead.  And the martyrdom will begin.



Yeah, unfortunately.


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## SueDonJ (May 2, 2011)

Wow.  This day was a long time coming, it's a very proud USA moment.  Deservedly so.

I spent the weekend in New York City with Eileen, my sister-in-law and my niece; we took the train down and went to see Wicked!  (Fabulous!)  This morning we were wandering through Times Square and talking about it being the one-year anniversary of the terrorist car-bomb threat there that was foiled.  Now I'm watching footage on CNN of Times Square jampacked with people celebrating.  Surreal.


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## MuranoJo (May 2, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The terrorist mastermind is dead.  And the martyrdom will begin.



Yes, in spite of what someone in the media said tonight, I am certain it is not 'over.'


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## easyrider (May 2, 2011)

Special Forces ~ De Oppersso Liber ~     

Bin Laden gone is over due. Too bad Gadaafi survived his due this week.


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## am1 (May 2, 2011)

Great news but why was there the need to announce it during the end of Apprentice??????  He was was killed a week ago????


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## ace2000 (May 2, 2011)

muranojo said:


> Yes, in spite of what someone in the media said tonight, I am certain it is not 'over.'


 
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that he has some kind of final inflammatory video prepared and ready for release.


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## dougp26364 (May 2, 2011)

I lost an online friend who went by Vegasjazz in the 9/11 attack. Today I'm cheering for him and his family.


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## KarenLK (May 2, 2011)

It just happened; it was not an Obama plot to silence the Donald!


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## dougp26364 (May 2, 2011)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The terrorist mastermind is dead.  And the martyrdom will begin.



I would rather Bin Laden be a martyr than the leader of a terrorist group. There have been many martyr's throughout history. The one thing they all have in common is that they're dead.


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## ace2000 (May 2, 2011)

Hopefully this doesn't get construed as political... but I have to give Obama credit for going in with ground forces, as opposed to drone strikes.  We now have very clear proof that the mission was accomplished!


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## Beaglemom3 (May 2, 2011)

Thank you to all the military forces, intelligence & spec ops involved in this and over these past 10 years , but I have to say a huge thank you to the SEALS - *Go* *Navy* !

*Great heroes and outstanding sailors !*

Edited to correct spelling to SEALS .


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## Tia (May 2, 2011)

Martyrdom big time no doubt...... No doubt there will be many who follow his foot steps too.



T_R_Oglodyte said:


> The terrorist mastermind is dead.  And the martyrdom will begin.


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## myoakley (May 2, 2011)

Hurray!  I am so elated that justice has finally been served for all those who have lost loved ones on Sept. 11th and also for those who were killed or maimed in the subsequent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq .  No, they did not sacrifice in vain!
I am also thrilled to see all the patriotic young people celebrating in Times Square, in front of the White House, and elsewhere.  They were young children on Sept. 11, 2001, but they understand the significance of this event.


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## myoakley (May 2, 2011)

P.S.  Thank you to the brave young men who risked their lives to accomplish this.


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## ace2000 (May 2, 2011)

Beaglemom3 said:


> Thank you to all the military forces, intelligence & spec ops involved in this and over these past 10 years , but I have to say a huge thank you to the Seals - *Go* *Navy* !


 

+1 for me.


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## pkyorkbeach (May 2, 2011)

Yes, A big THANK YOU to our Armed Forces....


Now I wonder when the retaliation will begin


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## Rose Pink (May 2, 2011)

Osama bin Laden was born into great wealth and privilege.  His was the opportunity to make the world a better place by easing suffering and building bridges.  Instead, he chose not only to murder and destroy but to inspire and rally others to do the same.  While I am relieved at his death, I cannot celebrate the tragedy of such a wasted life.  He died the way he deserved to die--holed up behind barbed wired walls like a death row prisoner awaiting a long overdue execution.


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## RandR (May 2, 2011)

A big thank you to the troops.  And even better, no US Forces were injured.


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## suzanne (May 2, 2011)

*GLAD he is dead!* I saw a news blip on Yahoo that said he was immediately buried at sea. That struck me as rather odd. Why would they do that instead of shipping body to USA for DNA testing for absolute proof it was really him? 

Suzanne


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## Ridewithme38 (May 2, 2011)

I have trouble passing judgement in situations like this...IN MY EYES, he absolutely deserved to die....I'd have killed him if i had ever run into the guy...and feel absolutely no guilt about it

But if i try to see things as he did, raised in a war torn country taught religion as fact....to him we were pure evil...everything he had seen, heard and been taught his entire life told him that...in his eyes everyone that died in 9/11 deserved it(Its horrible to see it as that, i had family hurt and friends family who died), because of his society and the beliefs instilled in him, he thought he was doing the right thing

It's just a matter of a different society and a different mindset...So i'm sitting directly on the fence on this issue...Sure i wanted him dead...But i don't know that he deserved it


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## ace2000 (May 2, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> It's just a matter of a different society and a different mindset...So i'm sitting directly on the fence on this issue...Sure i wanted him dead...But i don't know that he deserved it


 
I'm sure you're just trying to stir the pot here, so I'm going to assume you're trying to be funny.


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## JanT (May 2, 2011)

According to the AP:

"After bin Laden was killed in a raid by U.S. forces in Pakistan, senior administration officials said the body would be handled according to Islamic practice and tradition. That practice calls for the body to be buried within 24 hours, the official said. Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea."



suzanne said:


> *GLAD he is dead!* I saw a news blip on Yahoo that said he was immediately buried at sea. That struck me as rather odd. Why would they do that instead of shipping body to USA for DNA testing for absolute proof it was really him?
> 
> Suzanne


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## Beaglemom3 (May 2, 2011)

Also read that they had obtained samples from his corpse cheer: ) for DNA analysis and would compare these against samples taken from his sister that she volunteered while a patient at the Mass General Hospital some time ago. Apparently, she had equal disdain for him, too. Stat preliminary results are extremely positive on the DNA analysis, if not final, as of the writing of this post.

As for burial at sea, ood idea, therefore no pilgrimages to his grave/shrine, etc.

I just hope the weights that they used said, *"Made in U.S.A"  !*


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## Big Matt (May 2, 2011)

I am in New York City at a conference and am staying at the Marriott Marquis.  Last night there were a couple thousand folks in Times Square celebrating.  It was quite a site.  I think this gives a degree of closure for those folks in New York who were impacted so greatly.


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## Beaglemom3 (May 2, 2011)

This is dated news by now, no doubt, but.......



Report: DNA At Mass. General Confirms bin Laden's Death


Read more: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/27739824/detail.html#ixzz1LD2i76Pd
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/27739824/detail.html


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## 1950bing (May 2, 2011)

What a nice thing to happen on my birthday !!!!


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## tlwmkw (May 2, 2011)

While this is a good thing I don't think we should gloat and celebrate too much.  Yes he deserved what he got but we should show respect afterwards (which the military did by handling his corpse appropriately).  We have way too many troops over there who are still in harms way and if we boast and gloat too much it could back fire on them.  I am saying this purely from the stand point of protecting our interests- he will become a martyr to his crazed followers but we don't need to further fuel their frenzy.  I'm also glad he is buried at sea so that there will be no shrine or tomb for his followers to visit.  Hopefully they won't even release the location where he was dumped into the sea.

Just mho,

tlwmkw


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## Kona Lovers (May 2, 2011)

tlwmkw said:


> I'm also glad he is buried at sea so that there will be no shrine or tomb for his followers to visit.  Hopefully they won't even release the location where he was dumped into the sea.



It will probably now lead to some future "Hunt for Bin Laden's body" by some private treasure hunters with deep sea search gear like when they found the Titanic.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 2, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> Hopefully this doesn't get construed as political... but I have to give Obama credit for going in with ground forces, as opposed to drone strikes.  We now have very clear proof that the mission was accomplished!



Its not political.  Republicans as well as Democrats give Obama and his team plaudits for this accomplishment.  I like the fact that Osama died with an American Bullet in his head put there by an American soldier at close range.   Personal.  Just as it should have been.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 2, 2011)

We have proven that our military and intelligence is the best in the world and that we don't give up.  Others who should notice this fact WILL notice this fact.  One of Osama's claims was that the U.S was a paper tiger that would fold.  So much for that garbage.


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## rapmarks (May 2, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> I have trouble passing judgement in situations like this...IN MY EYES, he absolutely deserved to die....I'd have killed him if i had ever run into the guy...and feel absolutely no guilt about it
> 
> But if i try to see things as he did, raised in a war torn country taught religion as fact....to him we were pure evil...everything he had seen, heard and been taught his entire life told him that...in his eyes everyone that died in 9/11 deserved it(Its horrible to see it as that, i had family hurt and friends family who died), because of his society and the beliefs instilled in him, he thought he was doing the right thing
> 
> It's just a matter of a different society and a different mindset...So i'm sitting directly on the fence on this issue...Sure i wanted him dead...But i don't know that he deserved it


 
bin Laden's family didn't feel the same way, they disowned him back in 1992


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## Rose Pink (May 2, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> ...
> But if i try to see things as he did, *raised in a war torn country* taught religion as fact....
> It's just a matter of a different society and a different mindset...


 


rapmarks said:


> bin Laden's family didn't feel the same way, they disowned him back in 1992


 
I don't consider Saudi Arabia to be a war torn country.  IIRC, the Saudi government banished him.

Many people are taught religion as fact but do not use it to kill people nor to incite violence.  Instead, they use their beliefs to feed the hungry, clothe the naked and provide comfort to the distressed.  There are many people who grew up with bin Laden and who have the same education but who did not turn to violence.


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## pedro47 (May 2, 2011)

Now I am proud to say. USA !!! USA !!! USA.

An outstanding job by the U S Navy Seal's Team.


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## laurac260 (May 2, 2011)

I would like to see proof.

No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

No, it does not matter to me who's watch it was on.

I'd just like to see proof.

Wouldn't you?


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## sail27bill (May 2, 2011)

Personally I am a little upset that the US gave him the final "dignity" of a burial at sea.  I know people who lost loved ones in 911...I grew up in NYC.  I would have preferred he was cremated and dumped...no burial, no nothing.  He was responsible for the killing of many, he did not deserve any civilities.

And yet, I believe it was the right decision to make.  Parading his body or unceremoniously dumping it could have had dire consequences for our troops and citizens overseas.  Thankfully the operation was successful.  My prayers to the victims families of the 911 tragedy.  Although now they can finally have peace, I am sure they are still hurting.

Anita


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## Beaglemom3 (May 2, 2011)

What about the reward money ? I recall it was 25 million or so ?

I'd like to see it go to the Navy Seal team that took him out and/or any other deserving group such as wounded vets or similar that they  (Seals) would like included.


JMHO


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## laurac260 (May 2, 2011)

pedro47 said:


> Now I am proud to say. USA !!! USA !!! USA.
> 
> .



I've never NOT been proud to say, USA, USA, USA.  This country does great things everyday.

But hey, that's just me.


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## ada903 (May 2, 2011)

It takes a lot for me to cheer someone's death, but heeeeey this one is worth cheering and dancing!!!


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## T_R_Oglodyte (May 2, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I would like to see proof.
> 
> No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
> 
> ...



Some degree of proof will be forthcoming, though for some it will never be enough.

But the best proof will simply be that he doesn't reappear.  If he wasn't killed, he and his followers have everything to gain by having him suddenly reappear, alive and well.


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## MuranoJo (May 2, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that he has some kind of final inflammatory video prepared and ready for release.



Ace, sounds like you were right:  Heard today they have a tape he prepared some time ago.  Now the media is wrestling with whether to air it.  They've gotten social media feedback that people don't want to hear his c_ _ p anymore. 

Yes, we can get it from other sources, but I also do not want to see US media promoting his agenda from his wet grave.  But I'm sure we'll hear it sooner or later.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 3, 2011)

muranojo said:


> Ace, sounds like you were right:  Heard today they have a tape he prepared some time ago.  Now the media is wrestling with whether to air it.  They've gotten social media feedback that people don't want to hear his c_ _ p anymore.
> 
> Yes, we can get it from other sources, but I also do not want to see US media promoting his agenda from his wet grave.  But I'm sure we'll hear it sooner or later.



There is an old saying that is appropriate here "Nothing good could come from this!"   American or western media giving this guy a podium for his garbage one more time would be absurd, profane,disrespectful to those that risked their lives to shut him up forever,  and dangerous. He never had anything to say that was worth hearing.


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## laurac260 (May 3, 2011)

muranojo said:


> Ace, sounds like you were right:  Heard today they have a tape he prepared some time ago.  Now the media is wrestling with whether to air it.  They've gotten social media feedback that people don't want to hear his c_ _ p anymore.
> 
> Yes, we can get it from other sources, but I also do not want to see US media promoting his agenda from his wet grave.  But I'm sure we'll hear it sooner or later.



We don't want to hear it, we will say we don't want to hear it, the media will hear us say we don't want to hear it, they will pretend to wrestle with whether we SHOULD hear it, then they will play it anyway.   You gotta fill up that 24 hour news cycle after all.  And then, when they do play it, many will listen, even many that swore they "didn't want to hear it".  Why, because people love a good train wreck!


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## Patri (May 3, 2011)

Have you seen the drawing of what that compound looked like? Amazing that we could invade it safely. The SEALS pursued him for some 40 minutes. Scary situation. They built a replica somewhere in the US to practice. I am so proud of our military, those young men willing to do this for us.

If this had occurred the same day as the wedding, what would the media have done? I hope the Bin Laden story.

I find it a shame people don't believe he is dead, including a co-worker. It must be a chore to live in this country and not believe anything your government says. Where should she move? Even Bin Laden's followers admit he is dead.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 3, 2011)

Patri said:


> I find it a shame people don't believe he is dead, including a co-worker. It must be a chore to live in this country and not believe anything your government says. Where should she move? Even Bin Laden's followers admit he is dead.



Yup i'm hearing stories from members of the military who doubt it...i have no doubts but the information they're telling me is interesting to say the least...




			
				rivaporer1954 said:
			
		

> It is a complete FAKE...... Those pictures are from 2004...... The picture of the burial is a fake...... I am a 20 year navy veteran who was involved in many burials at sea...... The picture is definately not the USS Carl Vincent...... The deck is much too close to the water line...... Burials at sea are done on Destroyers and Frigates......
> The govt says openly that Seal Team 6 did the job...... Whoever said that is a traitor.....
> Seal Team 6 has always been Top Secret, even navy personnel have always questioned their existance....... Well, now the Cat is Out of the Bag and the world now knows they do exist....... Seal Teams do not attack in 40 men teams...... They are small, silent, in and out, before they were known to be there....... Teams are usually made up of Teams made up of 6 - 10 man teams......
> The whole story is a joke for people in the know of such things.........


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## Beaglemom3 (May 3, 2011)

Today's Boston Globe's editorial cartoon:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/outofline/


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## Beaglemom3 (May 3, 2011)

I'm not sure about the source's credibility as the name of carrier is the USS Carl _Vinson._ Been around for a while.



Ridewithme38 said:


> *It is a complete FAKE...... Those pictures are from 2004...... The picture of the burial is a fake...... I am a 20 year navy veteran who was involved in many burials at sea...... The picture is definately not the USS Carl Vincent...... The deck is much too close to the water line...... Burials at sea are done on Destroyers and Frigates......*[/B]"


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## Ridewithme38 (May 3, 2011)

Beaglemom3 said:


> I'm not sure about the source as the name of carrier is the USS Carl _Vinson._ Been around for a while.
> 
> ["B]*It is a complete FAKE...... Those pictures are from 2004...... The picture of the burial is a fake...... I am a 20 year navy veteran who was involved in many burials at sea...... The picture is definately not the USS Carl Vincent...... The deck is much too close to the water line...... Burials at sea are done on Destroyers and Frigates......*[/B]"



Ahh thank you...i'm going to delete the quote....i didn't realize that...it could have been a typo...but it does make me question the validity of it

Edited after Post: Made the decision NOT to edit out the quote as i want to make it clear that it wasn't me who wrote it since it is attributed to me in Beagles post


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## pgnewarkboy (May 3, 2011)

Is there no end to the garbage fantasies that people pursue?  Do we have to repeat what any moron has to say?  Do you think that just because somebody on the internet says they are something that it is true?  Really?  Does it raise an interesting question?  If you think so, go to the nearest looney bin and speak to the schizophrenics.  You will find many interesting things to pursue.  They raise many interesting questions.  Yes, of course, it is as clear as can be.  The entire U.S government created a lie.  Yes. Yes. That must be it.  Wait a minute, I have to  interrupt this deep thought because I am receiving a message from Teddy Roosevelt.  Teddy!  How wonderful to hear from you.  Sorry I must go but I am discussing reality versus make believe with my  friends who believe that the real world is fake and the fake world is real.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 3, 2011)

Patri said:


> Have you seen the drawing of what that compound looked like? Amazing that we could invade it safely. The SEALS pursued him for some 40 minutes. Scary situation. They built a replica somewhere in the US to practice. I am so proud of our military, those young men willing to do this for us.
> 
> If this had occurred the same day as the wedding, what would the media have done? I hope the Bin Laden story.
> 
> I find it a shame people don't believe he is dead, including a co-worker. It must be a chore to live in this country and not believe anything your government says. Where should she move? Even Bin Laden's followers admit he is dead.



This mission was nothing short of spectacular.  Our troops conducted a precision raid in the heart of Pakistan.  One slip and they would have been shot out of the sky - by our friends the Pakistani government that has obviously been hiding and protecting Bin Laden for years.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 3, 2011)

pgnewarkboy said:


> Is there no end to the garbage fantasies that people pursue?  Do we have to repeat what any moron has to say?  Do you think that just because somebody on the internet says they are something that it is true?  Really?  Does it raise an interesting question?  If you think so, go to the nearest looney bin and speak to the schizophrenics.  You will find many interesting things to pursue.  They raise many interesting questions.  Yes, of course, it is as clear as can be.  The entire U.S government created a lie.  Yes. Yes. That must be it.  Wait a minute, I have to  interrupt this deep thought because I am receiving a message from Teddy Roosevelt.  Teddy!  How wonderful to hear from you.  Sorry I must go but I am discussing reality versus make believe with my  friends who believe that the real world is fake and the fake world is real.



Why is a story from the internet any less valid then a story from the nightly 'news'?  IMO unless you hear all sides of an argument, you can never really get to the whole truth...a one sided news story only tells you what that one side wants you to hear....To get to the truth you have to speak to people(Plural) in the know...multiple sources....Besides the nightly 'news' has turned into more gossip then anything else in my lifetime


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## Beaglemom3 (May 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Ahh thank you...i'm going to delete the quote....i didn't realize that...it could have been a typo...but it does make me question the validity of it



 It makes me question the validity of the source, not questioning you as I always read your posts.


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## Tia (May 3, 2011)

The other half said last night when it was on the news _again_ "they're making him a martyr", by replaying the story again and again. 

He's gone lets be done with it period.



muranojo said:


> Ace, sounds like you were right:  Heard today they have a tape he prepared some time ago.  Now the media is wrestling with whether to air it.  They've gotten social media feedback that people don't want to hear his c_ _ p anymore.
> 
> Yes, we can get it from other sources, but I also do not want to see US media promoting his agenda from his wet grave.  But I'm sure we'll hear it sooner or later.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 said:


> Why is a story from the internet any less valid then a story from the nightly 'news'?  IMO unless you hear all sides of an argument, you can never really get to the whole truth...a one sided news story only tells you what that one side wants you to hear....To get to the truth you have to speak to people(Plural) in the know...



 You are not speaking to people in the know about this raid if they are saying that this is not real.  You are speaking to idiots or people with an agenda. You are not discriminating in what you listen to.  You say you don't believe these fools.  Good.  Leave it at that.  They have nothing to say.  Don't repeat their garbage.  You will only encourage them.  You want to find out who is in the KNOW.  Leon Panetta, President Obama, Robert Gates, and the other people in that room that planned and watched the execution of the raid.  They are in the know. Some stumblebum who says " I am in the military and you can't blah blah blah, is not in the know.

Thats it for me.  I am finished with discussing whether this raid is real or not.  It is a waste of time and energy.  IMO this thread should be closed if it continues down this road on the ground that it is obnoxious, and insulting to the people who risked their lives to take down this iconic bad man.  It is bad for TUG.  TUG will become known for countenancing the ramblings of lunatics.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 3, 2011)

I still think its important to see all sides of a discussion...even if i disagree with it...its a piece of the puzzle so to speak

i don't think experience mentioned online should be discounted, how many times have people on here spoken to someone on RCI and been told they can't do something...then spoken to someone on the internet(here) that said that RCI was wrong....

Its just not a black and white thing....there are many many shades of grey...now do i believe Osama is dead...yes and until i run into a mountain of evidence that PROVES to me otherwise...i believe what the one side has told me about the raids and burial....but just because i believe one side...doesn't mean i should stop trying to learn and find out more information

ETA: When i was in elementry school i learned that Christopher Columbus discovered America...If i had just taken that as is...I wouldn't have learned the whole rest of the story


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## DeniseM (May 3, 2011)

Ridewithme38 - You're acting like a Troll again - knock it off.


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## Rose Pink (May 3, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I'd just like to see proof.
> 
> Wouldn't you?


I don't know what would constitute undeniable proof.  Photos and videos can be altered or fabricated.  I suppose if we had the body then many different organizations could run tests on it.  But we don't.



sail27bill said:


> Personally I am a little upset that the US gave him the final "dignity" of a burial at sea.... He was responsible for the killing of many, he did not deserve any civilities.
> 
> Anita


I understand your feelings.  However, the USA gave him civilities because *we are a civil people*, not because he had earned them.  It was a reflection of how we view ourselves, not how we viewed him.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 3, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Ridewithme38 - You're acting like a Troll again - knock it off.



No your 100% right...i did give you my word that i wouldn't post in this thread again...I'm sorry, no doubt i have impulse control and when i read the post by Patri about people not believing he's dead and read the post by a member on a different forum...i got pulled back in....I'm now truly starting to believe that Controversy has a sort of gravity around it that pulls in the unaware

Again Denise, I'm sorry


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## laurac260 (May 3, 2011)

The news story a couple nights ago was that there have been NO pictures provided.  None.  The govt has chosen NOT to release pics yet, but that pics have been taken.  

They also mentioned that ANY pictures circulating on the internet are fakes, that had been around for years.  So, if you see pics on the internet that claim to be anything from the actual incident, they are not legit  

Supposedly they will release real pics in due time.


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## ace2000 (May 3, 2011)

Why are people so fascinated by the photos?  I really don't get it.  They really don't prove a thing.

I personally wouldn't care what the gov't decided to do on this matter... especially if they are as gruesome as some have suggested.


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## ace2000 (May 3, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> Why are people so fascinated by the photos? I really don't get it. They really don't prove a thing.
> 
> I personally wouldn't care what the gov't decided to do on this matter... especially if they are as gruesome as some have suggested.


 
Drudge Report is saying that the photos will be released for sure...

http://www.drudgereport.com/


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## laurac260 (May 3, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> Why are people so fascinated by the photos?  I really don't get it.  They really don't prove a thing.
> 
> I personally wouldn't care what the gov't decided to do on this matter... especially if they are as gruesome as some have suggested.



Because we'd like proof.  That's all, and I don't think it's too much to ask.  It's not a "fascination".  I have no fascination with dead bodies.  For those who don't wish to see, don't look.  But there are many who want to see proof, and the only way unfortunately is with photos or video.


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## ace2000 (May 3, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> Because we'd like proof.


 
As someone suggested earlier, the photos can be easily doctored. They really won't prove anything, if you're part of the conspiracy crowd.


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## Tia (May 3, 2011)

Yep, and back to timeshares I'm definitely part of the timeshare conspiracy crowd when it comes to developers/board-members etc.:ignore:



ace2000 said:


> As someone suggested earlier, the photos can be easily doctored. They really won't prove anything, if you're part of the conspiracy crowd.


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## ricoba (May 3, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Ridewithme38 - You're acting like a Troll again - knock it off.



Well put! :hysterical:


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## ricoba (May 3, 2011)

Someone put this little prayer on their Facebook page and I thought I'd share it. 

"Now I lay me down to sleep...one less terrorist this world does keep...with all my heart I give my thanks...to those in uniform regardless of ranks...you serve our country and serve it well...with humble hearts your stories tell...so as I rest my weary eyes...while freedom rings our flag still flies...you give your all, do what you must...with God we live and in God we trust....Amen"


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## laurac260 (May 3, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> As someone suggested earlier, the photos can be easily doctored. They really won't prove anything, if you're part of the conspiracy crowd.



The doctored, fake photos are already out there.  We're waiting for the official ones.  

And no, I'm not part of the conspiracy crowd.  Neither are the many people I see on my facebook page who would like some proof too.  NO biggie, just something other than "he's dead, and we dumped him at sea."


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## Phydeaux (May 3, 2011)

Fifteen or twenty years ago, photos of the corpse may have meant something. Today, they mean nothing. A second semester or 12 year old with Photochop and 30 minutes is all that's needed. I believe more harm, wasted energy and distraction will be caused by releasing them. But, they will undoubtedly be released. People love this stuff, and find it impossible to even drive past a car wreck without slowing to a crawl to get a good look. Personally, I have no desire or need whatsoever for "proof".


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## tlwmkw (May 3, 2011)

Please, folks, lets remember that we have troops over in that part of the world and if we publish grisly pictures of Osama's remains that may put them in more harm by inflaming the radicals over there.  Why can't we believe that he is dead and gone and leave it at that?  Everyone is saying that he is dead and symbolically that is a huge blow to the terrorists that worshipped him.  Now, lets leave it at that and pray for the safety of our men and women overseas. 

tlwmkw


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## AwayWeGo (May 3, 2011)

*You Typed A Mouthful.*



Phydeaux said:


> Fifteen or twenty years ago, photos of the corpse may have meant something. Today, they mean nothing.






-- hotlinked --​
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ​


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## laurac260 (May 3, 2011)

[Political post deleted. - DeniseM Moderator]


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## glypnirsgirl (May 3, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> Because we'd like proof.  That's all, and I don't think it's too much to ask.  It's not a "fascination".  I have no fascination with dead bodies.  For those who don't wish to see, don't look.  But there are many who want to see proof, and the only way unfortunately is with photos or video.



People's concept of "proof" varies greatly. In general, "proof" is credible evidence from a credible source. 

There are various degrees of proof: 
"preponderance of the evidence" is when there is evidence both positive and negative of a "fact" that is in issue and you weigh the evidence both positive and negative and determine which is the more credible; 

"clear and convincing evidence" Clear and convincing proof eliminates any serious or substantial doubt concerning the correctness of the conclusion to be drawn from the evidence. It produces a firm belief or conviction in the fact-finder's mind regarding the truth of the facts sought to be established; 

and the highest standard, "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is that no other logical explanation can be derived from the facts. One of the hallmarks of the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard is that there is a presumption (usually of innocence) that must be overcome. 

There is no standard of proof that requires absolute certainty. 

In this instance, there is no evidence that Osama Bin Laden was not killed. There is credible evidence that he has been killed. What is the credible evidence? A statement by President Obama saying that he has been killed. 

The mere questioning that it might not be true is not evidence. It is simply questioning the truthfulness of the assertion that he has been killed. So, in order to "prove" that it is true that Osama Bin Laden has not been killed when there is credible evidence that he has been killed, there must be some controverting evidence. So far, i have seen no controverting evidence that he is still alive. I have seen no controverting evidence that the raid did not occur. I have seen no controverting evidence that no SEALS were deployed. I see no controverting evidence that says that the compound does not exist.

To ask for photographs to be published when it is not in our nation's best interest to publish photographs ...

elaine


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## Rose Pink (May 3, 2011)

Elaine, IIRC, you are a lawyer.  Thanks for the above explanation.


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## Rose Pink (May 3, 2011)

*Because I can't help myself:*

(and because I seem to love bad taste on occasion):
According to Jeff Dunham, when Achmed the Dead Terrorist heard of bin Laden's death he reportedly said, "welcome to the club, bro."


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## pjrose (May 3, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> People's concept of "proof" varies greatly. In general, "proof" is credible evidence from a credible source. . . .
> 
> elaine



And I consider our military, our President, and our major news media to be credible sources.


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## sail27bill (May 3, 2011)

Rose Pink 

I understand your feelings.  However said:
			
		

> _we_ are a civil people[/B], not because he had earned them.  It was a reflection of how we view ourselves, not how we viewed him.



My point stated that I AGREED with their decision even though it pained me to do so.  I understand that our country has a higher standard and moral code, thus I supported it.  I would appreciate it if you were to quote me that the whole quote be posted.  I wasn't looking for a lesson in civics, I understand the why...just saying.

Anita


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## hvacrsteve (May 3, 2011)

I think we could have sold him in pieces and paid off the national debt, considering he is the one that caused most of it!
Then I would be happy about it.
As it is, I really don't feel like we have gotten real closure, my personal opinion.


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## easyrider (May 3, 2011)

Burrial at sea with religious considerations was a great idea. No terrorist gets a relic or a place to build a shrine. No one can deny that we did this terorist better than he would have done to us.

Why would anyone feel we are owed more proof of Bin Ladens death than what Uncle Sam is willing to give ? Just accept this as a good thing.


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## pjrose (May 3, 2011)

easyrider said:


> Burrial at sea with religious considerations was a great idea. No terrorist gets a relic or a place to build a shrine. No one can deny that we did this terorist better than he would have done to us.
> 
> *Why would anyone feel we are owed more proof of Bin Ladens death than what Uncle Sam is willing to give ? *Just accept this as a good thing.



I agree.  

Nobody presently alive witnessed the American Revolution, the Civil War, or the birth and death of Jesus, yet hundreds of millions of people accept, based on trusting their sources, that these events took place.


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## ace2000 (May 3, 2011)

I am just very thankful that his upright left foot is located where it is in that picture!  


:hysterical: 




AwayWeGo said:


> -- hotlinked --​
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ​


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## pjrose (May 3, 2011)

Ace and Alan - you are both bad


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## MuranoJo (May 4, 2011)

glypnirsgirl said:


> To ask for photographs to be published when it is not in our nation's best interest to publish photographs ...




Exactly.  Same goes for playing his pre-recorded audio.  That's exactly what he intended when he recorded it.  

Tonight I heard there's a big interest in knowing the identities of the Navy Seals who conducted this mission.


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## pjrose (May 4, 2011)

muranojo said:


> Exactly.  Same goes for playing his pre-recorded audio.  That's exactly what he intended when he recorded it.
> 
> *Tonight I heard there's a big interest in knowing the identities of the Navy Seals who conducted this mission.*



To turn them into targets?  Good Grief.  A promotion and perhaps some R&R both seem well-deserved, though.


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## ace2000 (May 4, 2011)

Now it's looking like the photos may not be published... which I feel is the right choice. I know I'm in the minority though. As far as proving anything, to me... who cares? If someone wants to believe he's alive, let them all believe that.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...ph-obama-increasingly-concerned-no-good-.html


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## pgnewarkboy (May 4, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> Now it's looking like the photos may not be published... which I feel is the right choice. I know I'm in the minority though. As far as proving anything, to me... who cares? If someone wants to believe he's alive, let them all believe that.
> 
> http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...ph-obama-increasingly-concerned-no-good-.html



Photos not needed.  They would only help produce the martyr which we brilliantly avoided by burial at sea.  That is right.  Absolutely brilliant to bury him at sea with no grave to be ever found.


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## Talent312 (May 4, 2011)

I heard a local on a radio station say that there never was an Osama bin Laden who was the mastermind of a worldwide terrorist organization.

The guy that they said was Osama, in reality was merely some peasant from Afghanistan who paid $100 by the CIA to stand in front of a camera, so the world could have a villain to blame. Only, when he signed a book contract, the U.S. had to take him out, lest the secret be revealed.
... _kinda like how they faked the moon landing._

I guess its all a matter of what reality you want to buy into.


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## pjrose (May 4, 2011)

Talent312 said:


> I heard a local on a radio station say that there never was an Osama bin Laden who was the mastermind of a worldwide terrorist organization.
> 
> The guy that they said was Osama, in reality was merely some peasant from Afghanistan who paid $100 by the CIA to stand in front of a camera, so the world could have a villain to blame. Only, when he signed a book contract, the U.S. had to take him out, lest the secret be revealed.
> ... _kinda like how they faked the moon landing._
> ...



There is so much ignorance out there......and the more ignorant they are, the firmer they seem in their "knowledge."


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## Tia (May 4, 2011)

I am ready for more happy wedding details personally


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## ace2000 (May 4, 2011)

Tia said:


> I am ready for more happy wedding details personally


 
You know, I would normally frown on someone saying that, but you got me thinking. I remember after 9-11, it seemed that people were dwelling on that incident way too long. It was a VERY powerful and dramatic incident; however, I felt it affected our whole nation's psychology for too long, and in turn, I feel that it had a big impact on our economy. I would cringe when President Bush was still publicly referring to 9-11 for months afterwards. 

Maybe it would be better if the wedding was this coming weekend.  

But, I would like to get more details about the raid (no pictures please). I find it fascinating that we pulled it all off so cleanly and am also very proud of our military.


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## Rose Pink (May 4, 2011)

sail27bill said:


> My point stated that I AGREED with their decision even though it pained me to do so.  I understand that our country has a higher standard and moral code, thus I supported it.  I would appreciate it if you were to quote me that the whole quote be posted.  I wasn't looking for a lesson in civics, I understand the why...just saying.
> 
> Anita


Please believe me, Anita, I was not giving you a lesson in civics.  That thought never entered my mind and certainly wasn't in my heart when I responded to your post. I feel somewhat pained that anyone would interpret my comments that way.   I stated that I understood your feelings to show solidarity with you, not to lecture you.  I understand your feelings because I and millions of others had some of those same thoughts.  Nevertheless, despite those very raw human emotions, on the whole, we rise above them and that's what sets us apart from the monsters we fight.

I only quoted the first paragraph of your post because that was the only part I was responding to: the part about bin Laden not deserving the dignities he received. Per your request, here is your entire post, the first paragraph that I was responding to as well as the second that I was not commenting on.



sail27bill said:


> Personally I am a little upset that the US gave him the final "dignity" of a burial at sea.  I know people who lost loved ones in 911...I grew up in NYC.  I would have preferred he was cremated and dumped...no burial, no nothing.  He was responsible for the killing of many, he did not deserve any civilities.
> 
> And yet, I believe it was the right decision to make.  Parading his body or unceremoniously dumping it could have had dire consequences for our troops and citizens overseas.  Thankfully the operation was successful.  My prayers to the victims families of the 911 tragedy.  Although now they can finally have peace, I am sure they are still hurting.
> 
> Anita


 
Now that it has been quoted, I will add that while I agree that "parading his body or unceremoniously dumping it could have had dire consequences" I sincerely hope that is not the only reason the decision-makers chose to wash his body and bury him at sea.  I want to believe it was more than just a public relations campaign.  I want to believe that they would have done it anyway because we are a civilized people.


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## Rose Pink (May 4, 2011)

hvacrsteve said:


> ...As it is, I really don't feel like we have gotten real closure, my personal opinion.


I just saw your post this morning and you mentioned what has been on my mind all last night: closure.  With so many people wanting to see pictures for the sake of proof, yet knowing that pictures do not provide proof, it occured to me that it isn't really proof that we are seeking.  It is closure.


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## Rose Pink (May 4, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> .... I remember after 9-11, it seemed that people were dwelling on that incident way too long. It was a VERY powerful and dramatic incident; however, I felt it affected our whole nation's psychology for too long, and in turn, I feel that it had a big impact on our economy. I would cringe when President Bush was still publicly referring to 9-11 for months afterwards. ...


Anderson Cooper's closing remarks last night on his 360 show were quite poignant.  He talked about bin Laden being in the forefront of the news right now but hoped that soon his name would never be mentioned again and that instead, we would remember the heroes of 9/11.  It was very well stated and I don't do Cooper justice in trying to paraphrase his editorial.  

You make a very good point about national psychology.  The closer in time we are to an event the more it impacts us.  Hopefully, we will learn and move on.  Not that we want to forget those whose lives were stolen but, rather, we can honor their memories by moving forward with our lives as they would have done with theirs.


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## ace2000 (May 4, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> I just saw your post this morning and you mentioned what has been on my mind all last night: closure. With so many people wanting to see pictures for the sake of proof, yet knowing that pictures do not provide proof, it occured to me that it isn't really proof that we are seeking. It is closure.


 

You mention closure, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.  But, for some, it's kind of like going to see someone hang in the old days.  There is alwasys a certain fascination with seeing something like that.  The gallows was a very popular event. 

For me, I'm hoping the photos *don't* get released.  But, I'll admit that if they do, I'll be looking at them.  I'm sure of that.


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## Rose Pink (May 4, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> You mention closure, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.  But, for some, it's kind of like going to see someone hang in the old days.  There is alwasys a certain fascination with seeing something like that.  The gallows was a very popular event.
> 
> For me, I'm hoping the photos *don't* get released.  But, I'll admit that if they do, I'll be looking at them.  I'm sure of that.


I agree with you.  I hope the pictures are not published.  I don't see any good coming from it, but, I'll look if they are placed before my eyes.  

I once chastized my in-laws for going out of their way to gawk at a traffic accident.  Now, ashamedly, I admit I will most likely look at photos of a dead bin Laden.  Why is that?  Why do we humans enjoy seeing the macabre?


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## pgnewarkboy (May 4, 2011)

Last thing I read the white house said photos will not be released.  Good move.  It will help keep the fires of "martyrdom" unlit. The photos would only inflame and possibly inspire these sick bastards that supported him.


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## Ridewithme38 (May 4, 2011)

What i would be interested to find out, is details on the DNA testing, where, when, how...maybe even see the paperwork...from the rumors I've heard, they compared it to his half sister...but really thats all I've found out

IMO putting out the pictures is a bad idea


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## mas (May 4, 2011)

After reading one of the headlines on the yahoo news page today, I know who gets my vote for "loser of the day" award.

Apparently, the head of Indian affairs in Washington was "offended" at the use of the term 'Geronimo' as a code word for the mission.

Really?  Somebody should get a life.


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## laurac260 (May 4, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> I remember after 9-11, it seemed that people were dwelling on that incident way too long.



I couldn't disagree with this statement more.

Where's the dislike button on this thing???


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## AwayWeGo (May 4, 2011)

*I Do Not Resemble That Remark.*




ace2000 said:


> I remember after 9-11, it seemed that people were dwelling on that incident way too long.


I am still dwelling on it. 

By me, it is another _Day Of Infamy_.

It goes under the heading _Never Forget_. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## ace2000 (May 4, 2011)

laurac260 said:


> I couldn't disagree with this statement more.
> 
> Where's the dislike button on this thing???


 
Hopefully misinterpreting my meaning...  I meant dwelling on it as a nation.

Obviously, many people were individually impacted by the event, and it probably still haunts them.

*Verb**1.**dwell* - think moodily or anxiously about something


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## ace2000 (May 4, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> You know, I would normally frown on someone saying that, but you got me thinking. I remember after 9-11, it seemed that people were dwelling on that incident way too long. It was a VERY powerful and dramatic incident; however, I felt it affected our whole nation's psychology for too long, and in turn, I feel that it had a big impact on our economy. I would cringe when President Bush was still publicly referring to 9-11 for months afterwards.


 
Here is my post...


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## Blues (May 4, 2011)

*You know you're a bad dude when...*

Wow, even the Dalai Lama suggests that killing bin Laden was justified!

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0504-dalai-lama-20110504,0,7229481.story


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## pjrose (May 4, 2011)

Blues said:


> Wow, even the Dalai Lama suggests that killing bin Laden was justified!
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0504-dalai-lama-20110504,0,7229481.story



That is amazing.


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## Rose Pink (May 4, 2011)

Blues said:


> Wow, even the Dalai Lama suggests that killing bin Laden was justified!
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0504-dalai-lama-20110504,0,7229481.story


This does not surprise me.  Once upon a time, when I was younger and more flexible, I studied aikido.  Aikido is a martial art sometimes referred to as the art of peace.  In aikido, the aim is to resolve conflict by doing the least amount of harm necessary to disable one's attacker.  I remember my sensei once telling us that, sometimes, that could mean killing someone.  If an attacker refuses to stop, as did bin Laden, then ending his life is the most compassionate course.  It protects not only the ones he intends to harm but also protects him from causing more harm to himself by his indecent actions.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 6, 2011)

*Al Qada Admits Bin Laden Dead*

The obvious was admitted by Al Qada.


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## Talent312 (May 6, 2011)

I'm not sure I'd stake my reputation on what Al Qeada says.
-----------------------
Anyway how do we know there ever was a villain named Osama bin Laden?
Those pictures and video's they showed us, where do they come from?
The media, right? Since when do we believe everything "they" say? 

Maybe he's living it up with Elvis.


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## nazclk (May 6, 2011)

*Bin Laden*

I will believe it when I see a video or picture of him dead.  They have a video but won't release it. Why?  All of a sudden he's wrapped in a blanket and thrown into the sea.  So I guess the only one that will ever know is the one that shot "whoever"


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## DeniseM (May 6, 2011)

Just google it - you will find a nice selection of pictures....  Of course that doesn't prove anything, since they are all fake, but that's the point.  The existence of pictures and video doesn't prove or disprove anything.  In this technological age, any 10th grader with a computer can provide you with the "proof" you are looking for...


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## ace2000 (May 6, 2011)

nazclk said:


> I will believe it when I see a video or picture of him dead. They have a video but won't release it. Why? All of a sudden he's wrapped in a blanket and thrown into the sea. So I guess the only one that will ever know is the one that shot "whoever"


 
LOL - you're not serious, are you?  If I was Obama, I would be thinking... if anyone wants to believe he's still alive, let them believe he's still alive.  The key is there will be NO MORE videos coming out in the future (outside of anything already recorded).


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## ace2000 (May 6, 2011)

Actually, the more I think about it... this whole thing has been handled brilliantly by the Obama administration. By not showing the pictures, anyone that has any emotional connection to Bin Laden will never get any closure. Kind of like a murder where the body is never discovered. 

And I feel that is why they've been forced to make their announcement today. If they didn't make the announcement, and many still believed he's alive.. how could Bin Laden be a martyr? I think it created an interesting dilemma for them, and Obama forced their hand.


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## Elan (May 6, 2011)

ace2000 said:


> Actually, the more I think about it... this whole thing has been handled brilliantly by the Obama administration. By not showing the pictures, anyone that has any emotional connection to Bin Laden will never get any closure. Kind of like a murder where the body is never discovered.
> 
> And I feel that is why they've been forced to make their announcement today. If they didn't make the announcement, and many still believed he's alive.. how could Bin Laden be a martyr? I think it created an interesting dilemma for them, and Obama forced their hand.



  Agree completely.  If there are pictures, they should be destroyed.  The dumping at sea, if true, was brilliant.  

  What matters that Bin Laden is dead, not that I ever know Bin Laden is dead.


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## pgnewarkboy (May 6, 2011)

"Maybe he's living it up with Elvis."

I just saw Elvis the other day driving his 57 Caddy with Johnny Cash.  Elvis only hangs with cool cats - not dead rats.


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## AwayWeGo (May 6, 2011)

*What It All Means.*

Click here for an insightful & largely non-political account of the significance of OBL & his demise. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Rose Pink (May 6, 2011)

AwayWeGo said:


> Click here for an insightful & largely non-political account of the significance of OBL & his demise.
> 
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


I liked the closing remarks of that article: to celebrate bin Laden's death, pursue happiness.


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## Phydeaux (May 6, 2011)

Rose Pink said:


> I agree with you.  I hope the pictures are not published.  I don't see any good coming from it, but, I'll look if they are placed before my eyes.
> 
> I once chastized my in-laws for going out of their way to gawk at a traffic accident.  Now, ashamedly, I admit I will most likely look at photos of a dead bin Laden.  Why is that?  *Why do we humans enjoy seeing the macabre? *



Simple. You haven't spent enough hours working in a trauma ER, or a battle zone. Trust me, you get your fill, and you'll never have a pent up desire to stop & gawk at an auto accident again.


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## rapmarks (May 9, 2011)

here is what I heard on the car radio today.
caller:   bin Laden was dead for a number of years.  he wads on ice.  they unfroce him enough to get dna and announced his death.  bush really didn't want to get him because bin laden had loaned him large amounts of money twice while he owned the Texas Rangers.  also, Carter stared al Quiada in 1979.


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## Conan (May 9, 2011)

rapmarks said:


> here is what I heard on the car radio today.
> caller: bin Laden was dead for a number of years. he wads on ice. they unfroce him enough to get dna and announced his death. bush really didn't want to get him because bin laden had loaned him large amounts of money twice while he owned the Texas Rangers. also, Carter stared al Quiada in 1979.


 
A problem in our media is every story is presented as having two sides, even if one of the sides is nonsense.

It worked for the tobacco companies for decades, maintaining a debate about "smoking and health." And we have the debate for and against the theory of evolution. And the debate for and against the validity of the President's birth certificate. 

So now there has to be a debate about whether Bin Laden sponsored the 9/11 attacks, and whether he's really, and I guess now freshly, dead.


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## MOXJO7282 (May 9, 2011)

I'll reserve making fun of someone's death to evil SOB like Bid Laden. 

Who saw the Saturday Night Live skit about his will and testament.

He's reading it on video and says'

"Please whatever you do, no burial at sea" My family knows how scared I am of the little fishies so please again no burial at sea"


----------

