# [2007] WPORV (Westin Princeville, Kauai)



## DavidnRobin (Oct 8, 2007)

I just got an email from SVO Corp Sales saying that WPORV is going up $1000.  Plus some links.  Quoted - in part, and edited.

Good Afternoon,

I want to inform you that the price of Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas has increased by $1,000. I have attached the current pricing.  If you would like to purchase a Princeville Villa and save you have until October 10th, 2007 to do so at our previous $48,900 price.  We are also offering a purchase incentive of 80,000 Starpoints as well as additional SPG Promo’s.  Inventory is limited; this resort has been selling fast.  If you are interest please feel free to contact me by email or phone. 

If you are interested in another location please let me know so that I can get you the information you need.  If you are no longer interested in Starwood Vacation Ownership let me know. I do not want to bother you.

Enclosed you will find information on The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas  located in breath-taking Kauai, Hawaii!   This resort is currently under construction and set to open in the summer of next year.  Due to popular demand of this location, we are completely sold out for 2008 occupancy and we are now selling for 2009 as the first year of resort usage.  Since this is the case, you would be given the option to receive the Starpoints conversion value for 2008’s usage, which is 86,400 Starpoints.  If you find any of this information confusing in any way, please let me know.  

Please see the enclosed attachments for:

1.  Resort Fact Sheet – will provide you information on villa layouts, square footage, and amenities.

2.  Pricing Chart – will provide you: 
 - Current pre-construction pricing for villas
 - StarOptions conversion amounts to utilize the Starwood Vacation Network
 - Starpoints conversion amounts to utilize the Starwood Preferred Guest Program 
 - Annual Maintenance (which includes all yearly upkeep costs and real estate taxes)

3. StarOptions Chart – will provide you with the StarOptions values needed to vacation at any of The Starwood Vacation Network Ownership Resorts (Choice #2 in the program description below).  It will show you the values for weekly stays, daily stays, in the various different seasons and villa sizes.  

4. Starwood Preferred Guest Redemption Guide – will go through the Starwood Preferred Guest Hotel Network and how to use the Starpoints (Choice #3 in the program description below).  

Below you will find a full detailed description of our award winning program.  Once you have reviewed this information please feel free to contact me with any questions you may have.  As a Corporate Business Development Executive, I am duty bound to always provide the very best in “customer service excellence” and am readily available when you have questions or need help.  (This is specifically why Starwood created our Division)  If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me by email or by calling me directly at 407-465-3684.  Thank you very much for your interest in Starwood Vacation Ownership and please scroll down the page to review the program and resort information.

Best regards,
Jim Johnson
Sales Executive / SVO Direct / Starwood Vacation Ownership
Licensed Sales Professional
Starwood Vacation Ownership Direct

Bus: 407-465-3684
Cell: 407-697-2821
Fax: 407-239-3327

http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLa...post_signin=Slideshow.jsp?mode=fromshare&Ux=0

http://www.starwoodpreviews.com/learnmore/
username: svo
password: vacation


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## Transit (Oct 8, 2007)

The new big 3 St John, Princeville and Harborside


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## Courts (Oct 8, 2007)

Only 80,000 starpoints ?  Sounds a little "cheapo" considering the recent devaluation of points.
 

.


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## Transit (Oct 8, 2007)

Courts said:


> Only 80,000 starpoints ?  Sounds a little "cheapo" considering the recent devaluation of points.
> 
> 
> .



If the units are moving Starwood has no reason to give a large starpoint incentive.:annoyed:


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## DavidnRobin (Oct 8, 2007)

btw, the MFs on the EY ($49900) is $2084.  The EOY price is $34900 (MFs = $1090).

Looks like our WPORV EOY purchase (1/2 of the EY price, 100K SPs incentive w/ the 80K SPs for the ExpPkg) was about as good as it gets (buying from SVO that is) - especially considering the EY WKORV requal thrown in for good measure.

Also - we used our SPs for the 1st time this weekend for a stay at the Denver West Sheraton (3K SP per nite) - while not the type of hotel (Sheraton) we like to stay at - we couldn't get into the Westin Westminster - it was nice that the cost was all inclusive and equal to the SPs we got for our Owners Update in Maui last year.  Essentially a free 2-nite stay for 45 minutes of our time.

SP value-wise (for us): I put the value of our 2 nite stay at $180 (since the SPG stay includes taxes/fees) - making it $0.03 per SP.  About right in line for the extra money (premium) we spent in buying WPORV from SVO.


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## ciscogizmo1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks for the links... I'm hoping to stay there next year in August.  I'm ready to call at the 8 month window.

I can't wait to visit!


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## hoyt55 (Dec 5, 2010)

*Today's price*

For a 2 br lockout $10 k


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## MommaBear (Dec 5, 2010)

Resale or developer price?


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## Westin5Star (Dec 5, 2010)

hoyt55 said:


> For a 2 br lockout $10 k



$10k might even be a little high.  That is only a loss of $30k+ in three years.  

Per another recent thread, we wouldn't want to debrand from Starwood as it might negatively impact resale values!!! :rofl:


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## frankhi (Dec 7, 2010)

Does anyone know the phone number or email to schedule a tour? We'll be at the Marriott 1/29-2/5


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## Kildahl (Jan 8, 2011)

Looking forward to our owners meeting this week. Upon check-in, we told the concierge we were not interested. Then offered us the stardard 10k points or a $50. gift cert. We said thanks but no thanks. She then stipulated a max of 1hour and the option of a 4 course dinner for 2 at Nanea and we agreed. 

Curious about the pitch(s). My guess is Desert Willow(will be there as a guest of another couple at the end of April). Ran into a Harborside owner this morning in the gym who said he picked up two gold "repo" ownerships to get to 5 Star elite plus enough points for airfare and 2 weeks 3 days in a 2bdrm  here at Princeville plus the rental of a lockoff for a visiting child for $90 a night. I didn't ask how much he paid for the repos or where they were( not here). 
We are putting our list together (don't want it to get too long ) so if you have any burning questions, let us know by 9am. hawaii time on Monday morning.


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## WalnutBaron (Jan 11, 2011)

Hi Kildahl,

Just curious...how did the owner's update go and did you learn anything of interest for the rest of us WPORV owners?

Thanks!


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

Does it make any sense whatsover to buy at WPORV, even resale, considering resort availability SVN/II, voluntary resort status and MF?  I love the resort and have been tempted by resale prices but still need some convincing before I add another $2,300 to my annual MF total.

If you own at WPORV, how do you feel about your decision to buy developer/ or resale there?  If you had to make the decision again today, would you buy at WPORV?   

Thanks for your advice!


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

It doesn't make sense.  WPORV is an easy trade through II, and has no fixed views, and it's a voluntary resort (no staroptions on a resale) so there is little reason to buy there.  

You can buy a Starwood II trader like Sheraton Desert Oasis for less than $1,000 total, and trade in for less than half the maintenance fee.

SDO 2 Bdm. L/O - $908.41 maintenance fee + $104 exchange fee = *$1,012* to trade into WPORV

WPORV maintenance fee = $2,356.93 + $119 SVN fee = *$2,476* yearly to own there.

I even know of one Tugger who split his SDO week and made two deposits and traded EACH side and got two 2 bdm. units at WPORV with an instant online exchange, but you can't count on being able to do that all the time.

The only exception is if you must have a prime holiday week every year like New Years - you won't find those in II.  But non-holiday weeks are very easy II exchanges.

If you don't want to visit the resort every single year, that's even more of a reason not to buy there.


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

Thank you Denise for the reality check!  

Do you or anyone else however believe that buying at low resale prices now may be beneficial in the future?... when access to the resort may not be as easy or if timeshare prices go back up?


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

work2travel said:


> Thank you Denise for the reality check!
> 
> Do you or anyone else however believe that buying at low resale prices now may be beneficial in the future?... when access to the resort may not be as easy or if timeshare prices go back up?



No - Because it's not on the beach, and it doesn't have Staroptions, there is no reason for the price to go up.  I think this is a beautiful resort, but Kauai is less popular, and this location is less popular, than a resort on the beach - like WKORV.  

The free-fall in the resale price is typical of the resorts with no Staroptions.  In fact, I predicted it when they built the resort.  Same thing happened at Lagunamar.


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

ok! So if buying at WPORV does not make sense and someone still wanted to own a timeshare on the north side of the island which resort would you recommend?  I have only stayed at WPORV and Princeville Resort (now St Regis).  I absolutely loved the Hanalei Bay/ Bali Hai views from the hotel.  Are there any timeshares with similar killer views that you know of?


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

*Building 6 and 7 WPORV floor plans*

Does anyone have Building 6 and 7 floor plans at WPORV?


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

> Are there any timeshares with similar killer views that you know of?



Yes - I own two ocean front weeks on Kauai and they are selling on ebay for pennies these days.  But it's between Kapa'a and the airport (which we prefer for central location and less rain.)

Kauai Beach Villas:

View from our lanai.






Swimmable beach just a few steps down the beach.  There is a very clean stream and lagoon on the left side of the resort that you can see at the bottom of the picture. 






View from Bedroom window (stream, lagoon, ocean.)






Living room.






Kitchen.


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

work2travel said:


> Does anyone have Building 6 and 7 floor plans at WPORV?



Resort map - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=538068&postcount=4


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

Wow! Nice interior and views.  Thank you Denise.  What is the name of the resort?

Duh!! never mind...I see it now ... Kauai Beach Villas


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

*Building 6 and 7 floor plans with unit numbers*

Sorry, my request on floor plans for Building 6 and 7 was not clear...I am looking for a building layout with the unit numbers on it.  Does anyone have that?


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

work2travel said:


> Sorry, my request on floor plans for Building 6 and 7 was not clear...I am looking for a building layout with the unit numbers on it.  Does anyone have that?



Sorry - I've never seen one.


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

*Sill bidding??? or true  WPORV value...*

 I am buffled...if WKORV is more desirable then why is it that an EBAY auction just closed for an annual 2-br lock-off oceanview at WKORV for around 5,000 while there is an  WPORV auction still pending with bids up to $7,500 so far? Sill bidding????


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

work2travel said:


> I am buffled...if WKORV is more desirable then why is it that an EBAY auction just closed for an annual 2-br lock-off oceanview at WKORV for around 5,000 while there is an  WPORV auction still pending with bids up to $7,500 so far? Sill bidding????



Could be shill bidding - plus that's just one auction.  Over all, WKORV commands a much higher price.

I see a major error in the Ad too - the WPORV Ad says it floats 1-52, which is not true.  51 & 52 are Premium weeks.

I don't see the WKORV that closed at $5,000 - was it listed poorly (with out the resort name?)

I found it - http://cgi.ebay.com/Timeshare-Westi...60527832783?pt=Timeshares&hash=item25603456cf

1)  It's every other year
2)  It's a bankruptcy being sold "as is" with no guarantees of a clear title.  It could have liens against it and it has past due fees owed to the resort.  These costs are in addition to the auction price.  The risk involved is reflected in the lower price.



> Total past due fees (including 2010) are $1,500.19.
> 
> Notes: 	A document prep fee of $375 will apply. *This is all we know about this item. Any fees/liens owing on this item are not part of the final bid price.*  A bid submitted by a buyer is an agreement to our Terms. Buyers should not bid unless they fully intend to complete the sale in accordance with our Terms (to view terms, click "Terms" tab in Seller Store header at top of ad).
> 
> ...


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

Thank you Denise!  Is the list of past WPORV ebay sales still posted on Tug?  If so I will appreciate guiding me to it.  

$7,500 still seems high in comparison with even an EOY $5,100 price at WKORV...hmmm


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

work2travel said:


> Thank you Denise!  Is the list of past WPORV ebay sales still posted on Tug?  If so I will appreciate guiding me to it.



There is an old thread, but it's so out of date as to be meaningless.  There should be a link in Starwood Owner Resources at the top of the forum.



> $7,500 still seems high in comparison with even an EOY $5,100 price at WKORV...hmmm



It's not just EOY - it has no guarantee of clear title, and if there are problems, the BUYER is responsible for them - major risk.


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

Got it, thanks!


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

As far as the WPORV Ad - it states that it includes Christmas and New Years (extremely high demand weeks) and it doesn't, so that could also jack up the price.


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## work2travel (Jan 12, 2011)

well, if the ad was wrong, we may see that WPORV unit back on ebay again...


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## DeniseM (Jan 12, 2011)

work2travel said:


> well, if the ad was wrong, we may see that WPORV unit back on ebay again...



Chances are that the new owner won't figure it out until it's too late - an experienced buyer would have noticed that immediately.  

It may also be a shill - the auction took some huge $2,000 jumps at the end.


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## Kildahl (Jan 13, 2011)

WalnutBaron said:


> Hi Kildahl,
> 
> Just curious...how did the owner's update go and did you learn anything of interest for the rest of us WPORV owners?
> 
> Thanks!



We  had an excellent update meeting with our representative. No pressure and answered all our questions. At our first owners meeting here in the summer of 2008, the rep said she was embarrassed by how cheaply we had acquired our Starwood weeks. She talked down to us and wasn't knowledgeable.
 This rep is probably the best on-site rep we have encountered in the Starwood system. I don't want to mislead you- he has a product to sell and it was WPORV, no other resorts were pitched. If my memory serves me correctly, he said that approx 40% of the 173 units have been sold. He said that sales started picking up last spring and were continuing to improve. That is good news for all concerned. He had no problem with our resale collection. He wanted us to purchase an annual unit and work toward 5 star elite.
There were  star point and star option incentives and an  offer to pay 1/2 of the maintenance fees for the first two years.

The resort looks great! This was our first winter trip to Kauai and wouldn't hesitate to come again this time of year. Interestingly, the rain has been coming up from the south, so  Poipu and even the southwest coast of Maui have had more  rain during our stay.

The restaurant, Nanea, has been expanded outward which was a smart idea imho. There is now live music every night of the week. The result would seem to be more visability to the pool crowd and higher utilization.

St. Regis is open and  it doesn't disappoint (note-we haven't eaten there yet). The views are breath taking.  Didn't use the beach. Shuttle leaves for there and the Princeville Shopping Center on the hour until 8 p.m.

BTW, we liked the WPOVR beach as did our son who is a CA beach critic.
The walk down is not that bad except for a small area around a clearly visable
culvert, assuming you aren't using it right after a significant rain. 
Stay here went all too fast. Storm line from the west expected here in about 2 hours. Aloha!


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## work2travel (Jan 13, 2011)

*Response to post#31*

I noticed the last minute $2,000 bid jumps too. 

I looked at the TUG ebay sales list.  It  looks like the last WPORV sold on ebay in June 2010 for $760!!!  (it was an EOY unit)


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## DeniseM (Jan 13, 2011)

Yes, sadly, there have been some very low prices.  I have no idea how they are still selling at full retail at the resort.  Well, I guess they aren't.  The sales figures in the post above are dismal.



> 40% of the 173 units have been sold.



That's a scary figure when you think about how long this TS has been on the market.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 13, 2011)

WPORV questions - IIRC:

There is no good reason to buy WPORV from SVO.
We purchased an EOY WPORV  in 2007 breaking multiple 'rules' at the time and getting a boat load of SP (~225K) - I would not do it again - in hindsight (always 20:20). But we have no plans to sell.

WPORV is a fantastic resort on many levels (except no direct beach access) - I am sure the one DeniseM owns is nice as well - but we are Westin-snobs (clearly) - Princeville is a great vacation area (except in late fall thru early spring - IMO - due to weather issues).

One upside in buying WPORV (resale) is that you have a chance to get a prime villa in the ends of B3, B6, or B7 - we had a villa with a full-on ocean view (reserve 12 months in advance).  A potential down-side is that Owners can no longer request these villa locations directly (are you reading this Starwood!) - like requesting the Hammer-head sections - and that makes for a bit of uneasiness since you have this as an unknown prior to check-in.  If this is not an Owner benefit - then why own there and not just take a chance with a SVN or II exchange?

btw - we are view-snobs as well - WPORV has a few villas with incredible views.  I posted photos and videos (I believe on this thread or my trip report?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQnSW92Qki4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY70SaGDfvU





I could find the photo of the B7 villa locations - not sure where it ended up.  There are WPORV villa photos in the above photobucket link.

I argued this point (inability for specific location requests by WPORV Owners) with SVPs of Owner Services and Customer Service - as an incentive to buy/own WPORV - but I doubt it will go anywhere (unfortunately).

I took a photo of the layout of B7 - that is on the back of the door - that is in my WPORV photo link.  It is either linked here in this thread - or in my trip report Sept/Oct 2009.


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## DeniseM (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi David - Don't get me wrong - I think WPORV is a *great* resort, and when we have more vacation time, we will definitely stay there - and trade in with our SDO or SVR units.  

The units and facilities at WPORV are far more luxurious and upscale than the Kauai Beach Villas - but we really bought it to be ocean front and for the fabulous view, which is very important to us.  We paid $1,300 and $1,500 for our weeks a few years ago, and even now, we feel that's a bargain for an ocean front unit.  These units are going on ebay for $1 with free closing now.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 13, 2011)

I didn't say that you thought WPORV wasn't a great resort - and I understand your position.  However, when aytug said the WPORV 'sucked' - I did defend WPORV and responded that it sounded as their choice to stay at WPORV sucked... guilty.  

Is it worth buying WPORV resale? Probaby not unless you want a greater chance to get the villas closet to the ocean (ends of B3, B6, and B7).  Of course - how low will resale WPORV go?  Have they hit bottom - or will they also be $1 on eBay someday?

Right now - my guessimate is that resale 2Bd LO WPORV (weeks 1-50) are about $7K - based on my observations (and not eBay alone) - and they could bottom out at $5K, but that is a pure guess.  I incorrectly estimated the value of WPORV based on its location and quality of resort when we bought - but it was a different world then - and we are thankful to be as fortunate (relatively) as we are, and that we even have the ability to complain about taking great vacations at great resorts, and the ability to even travel.

Do I wish I bought EOY WPORV from SVO - even with our 'deal'?  Of course not, but at least we got full value from the 225K incentive/purchase SPs - using fuzzy math - we recouped some of our loss  .  And we will make the most of it - of course.  I really feel bad for those who paid $48K for an EY WPORV, or $36K for an EOY.

The same is true for our resale purchase of OFD WKORV - if we waited (hindsight) we could have saved >$20K, but then again - we make the most of it and have gotten 5 years of great vacations (plus renting the studio out all but 1 year to offset our MFs).  Also in hindsight - would have probably gone with OFC even though we love the panaromic corner - but the advantages of OFC outweigh OFD when MFs are taken into account, and the studio-side has a lanai.

I can say that I am glad I bought our two 1Bd Plat-Prem WKV villas (except when they become $1 on eBay :ignore: ) - and our 2 weeks at WSJ (even with the MF issues) - and have no regrets with these purchases (except I missed a cheap 1Bd Plat-Prem WKV on eBay).  Robin does not regret any of our SVO purchases - and I love her for that.


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## work2travel (Jan 13, 2011)

*still undecided...*

Thank you david&robin for sharing the videos.  One thing I couldn't tell though, because the video was taken from inside the unit, was how far/what views beyond the awesome water views one can see from the second story end unit lanai of building 7.  Can you see the Kilauea lighthouse?  What about any portion of Bali Hai? 

Cant wait to go back to WPORV.  I exchanged into it easily last two times I went.  It is a beautiful resort and would love to own there. I dont mind the blufftop location, in fact, for me, it adds to the variety of vacation "local" experiences.  Certainly the resale prices are enticing right now...the MFs ...not so much.  Of course no one said that timeshare buying has to be a rational decision every time right?


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## work2travel (Jan 13, 2011)

*Thank you!*

I just looked at david& robin's photo bucket.  Answered my questions on "views"  from building 7.  Thank you all for your input, photos, videos.


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## DavidnRobin (Jan 14, 2011)

No worries - enjoy what ever you decide.  We will be back at WPORV in Sept.


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## Kildahl (Jan 15, 2011)

*Update*



Kildahl said:


> .....St. Regis is open and  it doesn't disappoint (note-we haven't eaten there yet). The views are breath taking.  Didn't use the beach. Shuttle leaves for there and the Princeville Shopping Center on the hour until 8 p.m.
> 
> BTW, we liked the WPOVR beach as did our son who is a CA beach critic.
> The walk down is not that bad except for a small area around a clearly visable
> ...



Today is our last day for this stay and it was magnificant. The north shore of Kauai was spared the big and extended rains the other island and other parts of this island recieved (7 inches of rain in 2 rays at Lihu'e  ). To reminise about our first stay on the island, we drove up to Swaying Palms on Wainiha beach and walked over to Tunnels beach. Iniki took its toll on the area as has some residental  development, but the beach house we had rented for a mere $65 a night in 1990 was repaired and is on the market for a cool 2.9 mill. Further down the beach, my wife said we walked past Pierce Bronson's beach home but since he didn't come out and introduce himself, we have no idea which place is his. 
At 5, we took the shuttle down to the St. Regis to watch the sunset.While not as spectacular as the summer variety, it was breath taking. What can you say about that view? Hanalei Bay, yes #1.

BTW, I had a brief lunch meeting at the hotel yesterday. The  ingredients were fresh(locally grown) and nicely presented and the cost was not over the top if you are used having to buy hotel meals from time to time. The service was friendly and accommodating, which seems to be a characteristic of the entire hotel staff. Would appear they are off to an excellent re-start.
Well, off to grill to start our grand buffet of those items left in the frig.


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## Kildahl (Jan 15, 2011)

*Correction*



Kildahl said:


> .... If my memory serves me correctly, he said that *approx 40% of the 173 *units have been sold. He said that sales started picking up last spring and were continuing to improve. That is good news for all concerned. ....Aloha!



Reflectioning on Denise's valid observation about how bleek it would be to be at 40% sold at this stage of the sales for this resort, I called our update guy who said that the resort is actually 84% sold (rounding downward to nearest whole percent).
As a Starwood owner and member of the WPORV HOA, I like that number a whole lot better!


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## DeniseM (Jan 15, 2011)

Kildahl said:


> Reflectioning on Denise's valid observation about how bleek it would be to be at 40% sold at this stage of the sales for this resort, I called our update guy who said that the resort is actually 84% sold (rounding downward to nearest whole percent).
> As a Starwood owner and member of the WPORV HOA, I like that number a whole lot better!



That does sound much better!  40% is scary!  

I can't believe a TS Salesperson gave out inaccurate info.!  :rofl:


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## Kildahl (Jan 17, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> That does sound much better!  40% is scary!
> 
> I can't believe a TS Salesperson gave out inaccurate info.!  :rofl:



 . In this case, I will accept the blame.


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