# The New Club Wyndham Website (General Discussion)



## abeachbum

Well, I got in.  Here's what I think, and it's just that, simply my opinion.

While I know there'll be bugs to work out, this thing is going to work. Not like we might want it to work, or how we are used to it working, but it will work. And it will do the things they said it would do. Not perfectly from day 1, but it will. It's here, and it's real. It will do the things folks wanted it to do, and the things folks feared it would do. (Whatever camp you're in!)

I don't like the reservation process.  Some of that is just working with something new, but some of it, in the brief time I had to look, is going to be incredibly cumbersome.

I don't know how long it was up, but would estimate less than 1 hour.  It may still be up for some, but once I left I wasn't allowed to come back. Based on the confirmation numbers I was seeing, I'd guess about 500 "transactions" were made and I don't have a clue if those were just reservations or anything it processed.

First thing when I signed on was a warning banner at the top of the screen that I had overlapping reservations. I also booked a new overlapping reservation; and as part of the booking process it gives you another warning screen about the overlap and you have to click on an acknowledgement of it to continue. The initial warning banner gave specific reservation numbers that were in the overlap; which makes me believe the cancelling of overlapping reservations will no longer be a manual process, but the system will know and will act accordingly.  If there's anything positive out of this, it is that at least now you will know what the overlap is and can fix it before any problems happen. It seems to be pretty smart about this.

There was a warning banner that auto upgrade was not working, but I successfully put in an auto upgrade request. I wasn't notified it happened, but it worked. So I tried it on another where I found available inventory that met the criteria, but this time it didn't upgrade. I think there will be a steep learning curve on what is an upgrade, and what the system considers an upgrade. (Maybe I'm wrong, there wasn't a whole lot of time to play around with it.) On the upgrade that did happen, I didn't see the room I upgraded from come back into inventory.  Maybe just coincidence. I also made a new reservation and was able to upgrade from a 1 bedroom to a 3 bedroom, so that's good news as it seems you can still upgrade more than one step (but with the auto upgrade searching all the time, don't count on it other than mud weeks or it being your very lucky day).

It will let you borrow points from next year (if you run out of current year points) and it will let you rent points, both worked just like they always have. At the end of a reservation, the confirmation screen shows what pot your points came from.

There is a history.  Shows everything you've done.  How many points are deducted and why, how many points are put back and why.

Booked and cancelled a reservation I made today. It was inside 15 days. The points came back like they should. Something new is I received a confirmation email about the cancel.... nice!

Speaking of confirmation emails, there is a change in the process.  No more getting the first one from the "do not reply" address showing what you booked.  Instead I received just the "your reservation is confirmed" email which is the one they normally email a day or two afterwards. (Time will tell if I receive another email in a couple days.)  So the promise of things being instant and in real time seem to be true. The email and confirmation letter look the same.

Searching inventory seemed slow.  It definitely was cumbersome.  I couldn't figure out how to do the broad searches I'm used to.  It wanted you to pretty much tell it what you specifically were looking for.  Exact dates, no ranges.  No searching up to 4 days before and after.  The orange "book" button will let you search across multiple unit types, but only using an exact, specific, check in and check out date. No multiple date ranges using that search process.  There is a way to search multiple dates but only one calendar month at a time, and only by specific room type.  And boy, have they made that cumbersome. You have every conceivable room "type" like 1BR, 1BR deluxe, 1BR vision impaired, 1BR hearing impaired, 1BR mobility impaired, 1BR presidential, 1BR presidential reserve, on and on; and it repeats this detailed breakdown for each unit size... 2BR, 3BR, etc.  For multiple date searches, you have to pick a room "type" (only one from those many choices) and then you will only see one calendar month of availability for that individual room "type". You can only search one at a time..... one by one by one by one by one........ each individual different 1BR type, each different 2BR type, etc.  I'm sure there's a better way to do broader searches (there's got to be) and hopefully more playing around will reveal something I missed.

Didn't look at ARP, moving points forward, RCI, or anything else, much other than searching, booking, cancelling, and upgrading.  There wasn't a lot of time.

It's here, and I think it's going to be pretty much like everyone expected. Except searching... there has got to be a better way and hopefully it will be back up tomorrow and I can figure that out better.

BEST ADVISE I GIVE IS WHEN YOU CAN SIGN ON, PLAY WITH IT. START GOING AROUND AND CLICKING ON THINGS AND SEEING WHAT'S OUT THERE. PLAY WITH THE BUTTONS, PLAY WITH THE TABS, SEE WHAT THEY MEAN AND HOW THEY CATAGORIZED THINGS. I FIGURED ALOT OF THINGS OUT IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME THIS WAY. AND I'VE ONLY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE.


----------



## Bigrob

What time was it when you got in?


----------



## abeachbum

Not sure what time it came up other than what others reported on the other thread.  It went down about 20 minutes before 6pm. As with most things Wyndham, I think it was just luck.  I was in well under 30 minutes total.  There was some inventory, but not what I expected.


----------



## Sandy VDH

I was only in about 20 minutes.  After I figured out Chrome was my problem.  I didn't get to try as many booking transactions as a beach bum, but whole heartedly concur that searching for inventory SUCKS BIG TIME.  They have to be able to show you inventory in all categories or a selected room type, like they have now, you search ALL or you pick room size(s).  It takes way way too much time to do a search.  The resulting inventory calendar while having large boxes and taking up a full screen, the text inside each box is too small to read easily.  I had to enlarge my page in order to read.   I looked around and found NO other way to search inventory, but they have to do better at summary level like the light green dark green across room types.  What I saw was virtually useless if you are wanting a location with multiple resorts and multiple room types.  It could take you an hour just to look at inventory across 2 or 3 properties.  I sure hope there is a better way, or I will die. 

I too did a within 60 days VIP PLat reservation with an available upgrade, and I concur you can still go from a 1 to 3 in live inventory.  Whether that happens with auto upgrade remains to be tested, but the rumor is that it is a single category upgrade ONLY.


----------



## Avislo

Great review.  Thanks.


----------



## IT Guy

Sandy VDH said:


> ....I too did a within 60 days VIP PLat reservation with an available upgrade, and I concur you can still go from a 1 to 3 in live inventory.  Whether that happens with auto upgrade remains to be tested, but the rumor is that it is a single category upgrade ONLY.



I was able to get two upgrades, the first was an automatic upgrade from a 1 bedroom to a 3 bedroom, the second was during the booking process and I got a 1 bedroom to a 4 bedroom.  I will probably never see that again but it was cool.  Not so cool was some of my reservations are MISSING.  Two of the missing reservations already had guest certificates assigned so it could not have been an automatic cancellation due to an overlap situation.  I regret not taking the time to do screen captures of all my reservations.


----------



## Sandy VDH

IT Guy said:


> I was able to get two upgrades, the first was an automatic upgrade from a 1 bedroom to a 3 bedroom, the second was during the booking process and I got a 1 bedroom to a 4 bedroom.  I will probably never see that again but it was cool.  Not so cool was some of my reservations are MISSING.  Two of the missing reservations already had guest certificates assigned so it could not have been an automatic cancellation due to an overlap situation.  I regret not taking the time to do screen captures of all my reservations.



I thought about screen captures afterward too.


----------



## Braindead

When I put in a resort along with check in and check out dates. It came no availability. No calendar no options. 
Changed check in - check out dates. This time it showed 3 different room types available but no calendar like the old site.
Hope there's a better way to see point status than the way I found it.

Agree with others everything is there. Just hope it gets a lot more user friendly


----------



## Avislo

Wyndham Customer service is still answering the phone.  Extremely uncooperative, they will not do or assist in anything and extremely rude.


----------



## wilson14

If anyone gets in before the site goes live, can you take some screenshots and upload them here please?


----------



## Avislo

wilson14 said:


> If anyone gets in before the site goes live, can you take some screenshots and upload them here please?


From the behavior of the Wyndham Rep I talked to today, I think Wyndham drew a line in the sand and no access will be granted until tomorrow.  Think the site was working to well for their liking right now.  Specifically, people were getting some great upgrades.


----------



## uscav8r

Anyone have the URL to the new site? Does it still have "preview" in the address?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Avislo

uscav8r said:


> Anyone have the URL to the new site? Does it still have "preview" in the address?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Site address that became active yesterday:

https://www.clubwyndham.com/cw/home.page

Address of the old preview site that did not come up yesterday:

https://www.myclubwyndham.com/maint/A.html


----------



## Braindead

uscav8r said:


> Anyone have the URL to the new site? Does it still have "preview" in the address?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just hit refresh on the old log in and it went straight to the new log in


----------



## Bigrob

For those that got in and saw the banner warning of overlapping reservations ; did it indicate which reservations were overlapping? That has always been the problem for me.

Also, anyone that has multiple member numbers notice if there was an overlapping warning that could only occur across member accounts?


----------



## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> For those that got in and saw the banner warning of overlapping reservations ; did it indicate which reservations were overlapping? That has always been the problem for me.
> 
> Also, anyone that has multiple member numbers notice if there was an overlapping warning that could only occur across member accounts?



I talked to another owner, (not a tugger) on Friday about this, and they are sure that in the case of multiple owner numbers, accessed  with the same log in; no overlapping reservations are allowed across  the several member numbers.


----------



## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> I talked to another owner, (not a tugger) on Friday about this, and they are sure that in the case of multiple owner numbers, accessed  with the same log in; no overlapping reservations are allowed across  the several member numbers.



I suspected that when I heard that a single logon contained multiple account numbers.  So before owners with multiple accounts could pick up 10 bookings PER separate account number, now you will get 10 PER ALL account number.


----------



## cyseitz

I can't log in...did anyone else get to log in?


----------



## Sandy VDH

cyseitz said:


> I can't log in...did anyone else get to log in?



Not yet today.


----------



## uscav8r

Braindead said:


> I just hit refresh on the old log in and it went straight to the new log in


I try www.myclubwyndham.com and it simply shows a maintenance splash page. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uscav8r

Avislo said:


> Site address that became active yesterday:
> 
> https://www.clubwyndham.com/cw/home.page
> 
> Address of the old preview site that did not come up yesterday:
> 
> https://www.myclubwyndham.com/maint/A.html



Hitting the Owner log in button shown on the first URL you reference simply links you to the second URL you reference. Back to square one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Braindead

Sandy VDH said:


> I suspected that when I heard that a single logon contained multiple account numbers.  So before owners with multiple accounts could pick up 10 bookings PER separate account number, now you will get 10 PER ALL account number.


If this is reality maybe the department supervisor that stated the 10 contract max per member was confused with this new rule. Although this rule would do nothing as far as the size of each membership.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Braindead said:


> If this is reality maybe the department supervisor that stated the 10 contract max per member was confused with this new rule. Although this rule would do nothing as far as the size of each membership.



Well I think the Wyndham could argue that, as the wording says the following...

Beginning October 1, 2015, we have enacted a Nightly Unit Limit of no more than 10 units** per resort, for reservations booked in the Standard and Express Reservation Windows. Each of the 10 units that are being occupied by your guests will require a Guest Confirmation, as described in the Guest Confirmations policy on page 339.

It doesn't mention per contract, per member number, it mentions nothing.  Well now that there is a single logon account for all contracts, how are reservations once made assigned to an account.  Same with reservations that are overlapping.  Someone will have to try this out.

I might think that if wyndham made the rule, and now has consolidated multiple contacts to a master login, how will those restrictions be enforced, PER MEMBER ACCOUNT NUMBER OR PER CONSOLIDATED ACCOUNT.   My guess is at the consolidated ACCOUNT level, otherwise what would be the purpose of combining all of those into a single login?  Easier for sales and owner care to find No purpose from an owner level, but perhaps for Wyndham's to extend their implementation of the restricted rules.

I don't know if this is the case, but I would't put it past Wyndham.


----------



## Avislo

Wyndham recently described the reservations as per account.  Any user name should be able to see the reservations made under other user names.  They indicated that this was why no reservations would be lost if a user name under the existing system does not get a corresponding user name under the new system.


----------



## ronparise

Suppose one of those member numbers was a VIP account  would VIP benefits extent to all the member numbers?  Probably not


----------



## Avislo

Just got off the phone with Wyndham (options 3 than 2):  Under the new system, they will only book 1 night stays at the 14 day out or less date.  They
can get into the account, review the number and specifics of reservations, and put a automatic upgrade on a existing reservation. 

They indicated they can also check for availability and book the reservation.  I passed on booking one.


----------



## kateandkids

New site is up. Just booked a week with no issues


----------



## hjsweet2002

Just checked it out.  Didn't see my point status.  All of my reservations were there.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Points tab is NOT where it was prior to the 19th.


----------



## nicemann

kateandkids said:


> New site is up. Just booked a week with no issues



Thanks for the heads up, I was able to cancel my reservation for Oceanside in Sept since it was split and rebook it right away without having to do a split reservation.  Saved me those HK credits.

I have another one like that in December for a different location but afraid as it does not show availability.  I don't feel comfortable canceling and hoping it comes back so I can rebook as a one stay instead of a split.

First impression I like the site.  To me more user friendly then the old one, of course I'm not VIP


----------



## spackler

abeachbum said:


> Searching inventory seemed slow.  It definitely was cumbersome.



That's a nice way of putting it.  The new site seems like a huge step backward....honestly, it's just awful.


----------



## ilya

I was able to sign in yesterday for a few minutes now I can not. "your account is not available at this time".  I was hoping to select upgrade button on my reservations.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Getting to Modify Reservations (Adding Guests, Requesting Upgrade), that is not obvious.

If you go to the my My Vacations, then My Reservations (see screen below)





Once the My Reservation Tab Opens this is what you see, , you are presented all your reservations (may have scroll if you have a bunch).  Strange thing there is NO select button, nothing clickable.  Trick is CLICK ANYWHERE in the line space for that reservation.  The entire space is a link.







Then from there up can select MODIFY or CANCEL Reservation.  This is the top of the screen, then there is a huge picture of the resort, that looks good for marketing but is useless for managing reservations.  So I cut that out of my screen shot to save space.






A farther scroll down on the screen above reveals the reservation information.







You note here that I have requested an upgrade (bottom left of last screen).  Funny thing it keeps track of who made the reservation and who requested the upgraded, don't know if that is important, but why keep that information it is NOT, unless you want an audit trail and reservation upgrade priorities are a combination of  VIP status, date reservation is made, and date upgrade is requested, if those are different.


----------



## Sandi Bo

I get the same message "your account is not available at this time".

I spoke with a VC earlier and the site is not supposed to be up until tomorrow.  I think they are accidentally letting some people in some times (maybe while testing they are opening it up briefly and if you are lucky you got in).

Way to go Wyndham - way to run conversion (I would be fired if I was half as competent as you)!   (Or is that half as incompetent)?


----------



## Braindead

ilya said:


> I was able to sign in yesterday for a few minutes now I can not. "your account is not available at this time".  I was hoping to select upgrade button on my reservations.


Same here. I called the answer was google chrome is the only browser working today


----------



## Sandy VDH

I don't know where points history is off main tab, but at the bottom right of a reservation detail page I found
"GO TO POINTS HISTORY"






Then you get to what is basically a summary of points, you can't see them all at once you have to select by Use years (these are currently what is left of my 2017 pooled points, that I did back on May 9th.  It also show GC count remaining, and HK credits remaining.  Because I am VIP, it states UNLIMITED.

There is a point history farther down, but since it started yesterday, I have not done a transaction. (I just cut of that part of the screen as it had no detail.

The current use year is a drop down.  That works for now until they put the points tab back for me.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Braindead said:


> Same here. I called the answer was google chrome is the only browser working today



I am use IE and it is working fine.  I did not use Chrome, as it was NOT working for me yesterday.


----------



## spackler

GOSH



I WISH



THEY USED


A



MORE



EFFICIENT


USE



OF SPACE


----------



## Sandy VDH

I took down my post on Search as it appears they are changing search functionality as I speak.  I was complaining about not being able to select multiple rooms types, and just as I refreshed a new search window now appears on the main screen when you login.  it didn't do that earlier, so they are adding stuff as the days goes it would appear.

It is ONLY workable if you want to search where you already know your exact dates.  If you dates are known you can get a result of your search that shows resort, unit types for the DATES you requested.  If you do not know the dates, which often for me is 75% of my searches.  It is IMPOSSIBLE, as you can only search for availability by EACH ROOM TYPE.  Also there appears to be a bug in the drop down, if you leave the resort name from your just completed resort and then hit modify search, it does not recognize the resort name, even though it is populated in the field.  You have to pick it again or the SEARCH box never turns blue and thus is activated. If you don't do this the SEARCH box remains GREY.


----------



## Sandy VDH

That is why I said it is a website for the visually impaired and for Marketing.  It is NOT a website for owner usage.  It looks pretty, but it is pretty useless to be efficient to do anything.  If that gave us some user preferences I could live with it.  It I have not found any. 

Little things that annoy me like the order the reservations are display, the are oldest check in shows first.  you can change the order but why this is the default is ridiculous.  Who looks at calendar entries in reverse order.


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> Same here. I called the answer was google chrome is the only browser working today




So I guess that is the quote of the day. I did ask how this is fair that some people are booking away and pushing upgrade .. The answer was 'yeah your going to lose out  on some reservations and upgrades..


----------



## Sandy VDH

ilya said:


> So I guess that is the quote of the day. I did ask how this is fair that some people are booking away and pushing upgrade .. The answer was 'yeah your going to lose out  on some reservations and upgrades..



Try a different browser,  I got both Chrome and Internet Explorer working.


----------



## ronparise

Sandy VDH said:


> like the order the reservations are display, the are oldest check in shows first.  you can change the order but why this is the default is ridiculous.  Who looks at calendar entries in reverse order.




Actually I like that order.  It lets me know what's up next


----------



## Sandi Bo

I've tried in both IE and Chrome:






And I do believe I have the correct credentials - if I put in garbage I get this:





Well they got the "Something's not right" part nailed....


----------



## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> Actually I like that order.  It lets me know what's up next



No, the one I have booked for Christmas is the first on the list as a default.  The one checking in today, it at the bottom of the list.  This is counter intuitive for a calendar.  You can switch the order, but why is THIS the default.


----------



## Sandi Bo

ilya said:


> So I guess that is the quote of the day. I did ask how this is fair that some people are booking away and pushing upgrade .. The answer was 'yeah your going to lose out  on some reservations and upgrades..



I gave them a piece of my mind earlier too.  They said it's the system letting some people in (not a person - they would not arbitrarily allow some in and not others - it's the system's fault)!


----------



## jhoug

spackler said:


> GOSH
> 
> 
> 
> I WISH
> 
> 
> 
> THEY USED
> 
> 
> A
> 
> 
> 
> MORE
> 
> 
> 
> EFFICIENT
> 
> 
> USE
> 
> 
> 
> OF SPACE





YEAH, And who needs to see a BIG picture of the resort taking up the top half of the screen, when we are owners who have seen and stayed at these resorts before?


----------



## Braindead

Sandy VDH said:


> View attachment 3918


To see all your points you have have to click on the box with dates. Then I had several dates to pick to see different points. Couldn't see all points at ounce only specific timeframes. Is it still that way ? Did you click the box to see all your different time spans ?


----------



## Avislo

Sandi Bo said:


> I gave them a piece of my mind earlier too.  They said it's the system letting some people in (not a person - they would not arbitrarily allow some in and not others - it's the system's fault)!



Is letting me in through both the pre-view site and the new site.  It did let me upgrade some of my reservations. 

I hope the search feature is getting improved as we speak, could not get it to work and book anything. 

If browsers make a difference, download the major ones you do not have and try them.

The big thing I am watching for tonight is the on-line system now 24 hour?


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> To see all your points you have have to click on the box with dates. Then I had several dates to pick to see different points. Couldn't see all points at ounce only specific timeframes. Is it still that way ? Did you click the box to see all your different time spans ?


----------



## ilya

so you were able to login


----------



## nicemann

Well on a positive note their promise to allow ARP booking online seems to be true.  I can book all the way out to June 21, 2018.


----------



## lozanoboys

Looks like site is up.  Looked at my pending reservations, and they are there, but say "not requested"... Not sure what that exactly means.


----------



## Braindead

ilya said:


> so you were able to login


No. Never allowed in. I was trying to point out the box in Sandy picture above points available with dates. You have to click on the box and select different dates to see different points. You might have 3 or 4 timeframes with points available today. What you see as points available today isn't all the points available today. Each time you credit pooled your points has its own timeframe.


----------



## ausman

Pooled points are now not available for me to use. They appear to be good for a 1 yr period only prior to their original expiration date. E.G. My pooled points pooled 12/15/16 and good to 12/15/19 now show as available for use for the period 12/16/18-12/15/19.

Not what I was expecting to see.


----------



## whitewater

tried logging in and get "account locked...."

I had setup username and password prior to and guess what not working.  No its not user error just plain old fashion IT systems not working.  user name correct - password not working.  Tried to reset and would not go through..


----------



## olivdav

lozanoboys said:


> Looks like site is up.  Looked at my pending reservations, and they are there, but say "not requested"... Not sure what that exactly means.



"Not Requested" Means that you did not Opt in for auto upgrade.


----------



## lozanoboys

olivdav said:


> "Not Requested" Means that you did not Opt in for auto upgrade.


Thanks


----------



## Sandy VDH

basham said:


> Pooled points are now not available for me to use. They appear to be good for a 1 yr period only prior to their original expiration date. E.G. My pooled points pooled 12/15/16 and good to 12/15/19 now show as available for use for the period 12/16/18-12/15/19.
> 
> Not what I was expecting to see.




My pooled points went in fine.  Just call them and ask tomorrow when they are open, but they might be busy, however.


----------



## spackler

Sandy VDH said:


> My pooled points went in fine.  Just call them and ask tomorrow when they are open, but they might be busy, however.



Where exactly do you look on the new website to see how many credit pooled points you have?


----------



## nicemann

spackler said:


> Where exactly do you look on the new website to see how many credit pooled points you have?



Go under "My Ownership" -> Points then you can change the use years and see what you have pooled.


----------



## uscav8r

Braindead said:


> Same here. I called the answer was google chrome is the only browser working today



I was able to get in using Safari on my iPhone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uscav8r

ronparise said:


> Actually I like that order.  It lets me know what's up next



It sounds like you want chronological order, but Sandy was talking about the default is reverse chronological (further reservations show first).

I also am curious as to why the reverse order is the default. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spackler

nicemann said:


> Go under "My Ownership" -> Points then you can change the use years and see what you have pooled.



Hmm, that's not showing up for me.  It lists the contracts I have individually, but no "2017 points available" section.


----------



## Braindead

uscav8r said:


> I was able to get in using Safari on my iPhone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what I was using. Safari on my iPhone and safari on my iPad. Neither work. Downloaded chrome and can't get in. My account not available at this time. Sandi Bo is right it will not allow some of us access.

I did get in yesterday using safari


----------



## Bigrob

I'm getting a message, "Your account is unavailable at this time."


----------



## Bigrob

I'm getting a message, "Your account is unavailable at this time."


----------



## OutSkiing

Bigrob said:


> I'm getting a message, "Your account is unavailable at this time."


Same for me whether using IE, Chrome or iPhone Safari.


----------



## famy27

whitewater said:


> tried logging in and get "account locked...."
> 
> I had setup username and password prior to and guess what not working.  No its not user error just plain old fashion IT systems not working.  user name correct - password not working.  Tried to reset and would not go through..
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3924



I got the exact same thing. And even if I had typed the password incorrectly, what the heck system only gives you one attempt before locking you out for 30 minutes? That's ridiculous.


----------



## Sandy VDH

I just noticed on new site Emerald Grand Destin, old book got VIP Benefits, new site NO VIP Benefits.  This is news to me.  Anyone own there anyone know if this is yet another data entry error.

After a little investigation I will assume that they are NO Longer Managed by wyndham, so therefore NO VIP Perks.  An another one bites the dust.

I likely will never stay here again, because I always went during VIP discount period.  NOT any more.  Wonder why that is suddenly why I have not been able to find any availability lately.


----------



## Sandy VDH

nicemann said:


> Go under "My Ownership" -> Points then you can change the use years and see what you have pooled.



That option used to be there for me but the POINTS tab is missing.



spackler said:


> Hmm, that's not showing up for me.  It lists the contracts I have individually, but no "2017 points available" section.



Follow this post for how I found my points values.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index....ub-wyndham-website.256063/page-2#post-2005965


----------



## OutSkiing

Sandy VDH said:


> I just noticed on new site Emerald Grand Destin, old book got VIP Benefits, new site NO VIP Benefits.  This is news to me.  Anyone own there anyone know if this is yet another data entry error.


Sandy must be the only person Wyndham is letting into the site tonight.


Bob


----------



## Sandy VDH

OutSkiing said:


> Sandy must be the only person Wyndham is letting into the site tonight.
> 
> 
> Bob



I somehow doubt that. I have a single member number, are the ones with issues people with multiple account numbers?  Trying to debug what is the problem.


----------



## Sandy VDH

uscav8r said:


> It sounds like you want chronological order, but Sandy was talking about the default is reverse chronological (further reservations show first).
> 
> I also am curious as to why the reverse order is the default.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Mine is in Reverse Chrono order as a default.  I DO NOT WANT THAT.


----------



## wilson14

Sandy VDH said:


> I somehow doubt that. I have a single member number, are the ones with issues people with multiple account numbers?  Trying to debug what is the problem.



I've been able to login and book with no issues. Only have one contract though. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cayman01

I am in using Safari on iPad. Can't find my points available . The search feature is just about unusable. I DO have all my reservations and contracts which is a plus. I like the graphics, but they are going to slow down the system I think. Give me the old search function with the new graphics and I will be okay. Maybe it is being worked on as we speak. One can only hope.. Pretty frustrated looking for availability. Have to wonder, as a Presidential Reserve owner, how there can be LESS availability for me for PR units at Bonnett Creek in December than for regular owners...


----------



## Pathways

Anyone get into the RCI portal through the new site?


----------



## paxsarah

nicemann said:


> Well on a positive note their promise to allow ARP booking online seems to be true.  I can book all the way out to June 21, 2018.



I was able to start an ARP reservation too, as well as confirm that it would let me book ARP at a Myrtle Beach resort different than the one I own at.


----------



## OutSkiing

Sandy VDH said:


> I somehow doubt that. I have a single member number, are the ones with issues people with multiple account numbers?  Trying to debug what is the problem.


We have only 1 account .. it has 5 contracts which are a mix of direct Wyndham purchases and resales.

What happens if you log out and back in?  (don't try unless you are willing to loose access for the evening!!).

Bob


----------



## famy27

Just tried again and got in. Was able to snag a three-bedroom presidential for two nights, checking in the Friday after Thanksgiving. I know this wasn't there when I checked before the conversion.


----------



## Avislo

Pathways said:


> Anyone get into the RCI portal through the new site?



I got in.  Just go to the Ownership Details, Exchanges, then keep clicking on the various screens until you are there.


----------



## happyhopian

This might be the WORST search function in the history of time. What if I don't want a specific date in or out but rather I'm looking for a four day stay over two weeks. Amazing that they took a VERY great search functionality in the old site and ruined it. Everything else be dammed. I've been trying to figure out how to search for 4 nights over a month and I can't get it except to search range by range


----------



## Vacationfuntips

I can not figure out how to get to RCI using the new website.

I've clicked on External Exchange under the Benefits Category and there is only a click on link for deposits.  I do not see any link to access RCI Exchange vacations, Extra Vacations or Last Minute Vacations.

Does anyone have any access through the New Wyndham website?

By the way - I'm not loving the New and Improved website. It is not easy to navigate and much more time consuming to search for availability. Resort information, points charts, floor plans, room size info, occupancy info resort maps, resort videos, photos, etc... I found helpful.  I'm not sure where to look for this stuff other than the EXPIRED Members Directory.

Cynthia T.


----------



## ilya

Sandy VDH said:


> I somehow doubt that. I have a single member number, are the ones with issues people with multiple account numbers?  Trying to debug what is the problem.



I only have one account too.


----------



## ronparise

famy27 said:


> Just tried again and got in. Was able to snag a three-bedroom presidential for two nights, checking in the Friday after Thanksgiving. I know this wasn't there when I checked before the conversion.



I wonder if all this availability you guys (I can't get in)  are seeing tonight is a mistake. It wasn't there last week but it is now?   I gotta wonder

And if it's a mistake, what's next.


----------



## Sandy VDH

By the way the system now recognizes that your Account Number is holding a transaction, and even if you log on with a different logon for your other owners, it still knows that Account Number is in the process of holding a transactions and IT WILL NOT let you hold any additional units.  You can only be in the process of booking 1 unit at a time, and you must complete that transactions first, or cancel it before you can starting another booking process.

I'm sure some of you know what I am on about.


----------



## Pathways

ronparise said:


> I wonder if all this availability you guys (I can't get in)  are seeing tonight is a mistake. It wasn't there last week but it is now?   I gotta wonder
> 
> And if it's a mistake, what's next.


You think maybe the jokes on us?


----------



## ronparise

And another question 

They say it will be up and running for all of us on Monday

Will that be midnight of some random time tomorrow


----------



## wilson14

ronparise said:


> And another question
> 
> They say it will be up and running for all of us on Monday
> 
> Will that be midnight of some random time tomorrow



When I called vacation planning a few weeks ago, she acted like it would be midnight. But if everyone cannot login right now, I don't know why it would start working at midnight for everyone. Guess we'll see.


----------



## uscav8r

famy27 said:


> I got the exact same thing. And even if I had typed the password incorrectly, what the heck system only gives you one attempt before locking you out for 30 minutes? That's ridiculous.



Interesting. I had one bad password entry and no problems entering it a second time (correctly). No 30 minute lock out at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

Sandy VDH said:


> By the way the system now recognizes that your Account Number is holding a transaction, and even if you log on with a different logon for your other owners, it still knows that Account Number is in the process of holding a transactions and IT WILL NOT let you hold any additional units.  You can only be in the process of booking 1 unit at a time, and you must complete that transactions first, or cancel it before you can starting another booking process.
> 
> I'm sure some of know what I am on about.



I know exactly what you are talking about. I was hoping I could have ten tabs open and put 10 reservations on hold. And then go back and take my time completing them


----------



## Vacationfuntips

Avislo said:


> I got in.  Just go to the Ownership Details, Exchanges, then keep clicking on the various screens until you are there.


 
Thank you. That worked for me.

This new Wyndham website is not an improvement to me. I think it needs to be simple.  I liked comparing all resorts with availability in a location. I haven't been able to do that. I have checked availability month by month based upon a specific room size.  Now I can check 1 resort at a time with a specific room size.

This is so annoying. How is this better?  The room size category should give bed information and occupancy information. I don't see that anywhere.

Cynthia T.


----------



## cayman01

spackler said:


> Hmm, that's not showing up for me.  It lists the contracts I have individually, but no "2017 points available" section.


Me neither. All I see are my contracts.


----------



## spackler

Of all the travel-related websites I use (hotels, airlines, review sites, etc) I can't name a single one that's harder to use then this "updated" one.


----------



## whitewater

uscav8r said:


> Interesting. I had one bad password entry and no problems entering it a second time (correctly). No 30 minute lock out at all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


had the same issue - I cleared my autofill and re-entered password after 2 hrs.  then it worked.  

anyone know where to find my current points status?


----------



## Pathways

Yes.  Thank you. I am also into the RCI portal.  

Also figured out how to search for all room types at once, and to display future reservations with the next one displayed on top


----------



## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> I wonder if all this availability you guys (I can't get in)  are seeing tonight is a mistake. It wasn't there last week but it is now?   I gotta wonder
> 
> And if it's a mistake, what's next.




All this available, surely you must be joking.  (....and don't call me Shirley comes to mind, as this is a bad comedy routine right.)

The only efficient search is if you know the exact check in and check out day.  If you want to be opportunistic and just look what is available for a month or two window.  FORGET IT.   You can only look at available for a SINGLE MONTH at a time AND for a single ROOM TYPE at ONE Time.  All this availability, I have NO patience to look that hard for availability I have NO idea is there, and no ideas what size unit it is in.

WYNDHAM YOU NEED TO PUT IN SEARCH CAPABILITIES that display like the OLD SYSTEM DISPLAYED IT.  This is utter and complete crap if you have NO specific dates in mind.  You even removed the find the first available which I used a lot.

If you know your dates it is workable, but if you do NOT have set dates it is UN-USABLE. Replace this search FAST and/or put the OLD search in place as an inventory lookup without booking capabilities, as a stop gap measure.

Are you trying to drive people to make phone bookings, it certainly looks like it?


----------



## CO skier

happyhopian said:


> This might be the WORST search function in the history of time.


Could it be that the new search function is intentionally cumbersome to make it difficult for "bots" to operate?  Most owners probably have an idea of where they want to go, and when they want to go, and what size unit they want.  Searching is easy for them.

Someone, or some thing, looking for the most lucrative reservation avialable any given moment will have a much more difficult time.


----------



## Pathways

A lot of this site reminds me of the DVC website.  I HATED it at first, but now I have learned new tricks that actually save me time.

I do see some potential here, if they work out the bugs!


----------



## cayman01

ronparise said:


> I wonder if all this availability you guys (I can't get in)  are seeing tonight is a mistake. It wasn't there last week but it is now?   I gotta wonder
> 
> And if it's a mistake, what's next.



I think it is more of a case of cancelled reservations by people who could not attach a name to a GC. Of course nobody has cancelled the Smoky Mtns. Lodge for the week I want......


----------



## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> I know exactly what you are talking about. I was hoping I could have ten tabs open and put 10 reservations on hold. And then go back and take my time completing them



NOT a CHANCE, I even tried two separate logons.


----------



## Zeke_62

The auto upgrade did not work for me.  I had auto upgrade on a reservation.   Cancelled the larger unit.  The larger unit returned to inventory where fortunately another 1br existed and I was able to book with upgrade.  Then cancelled the first 1br.


----------



## Pathways

Sandy VDH said:


> All this available, sure you must be joking.  The only efficient search is if you know the exact check in and check out day.  If you want to be opportunistic and just look what is available for a month or two window.  FORGET IT.   You can only look at available for a SINGLE MONTH at a time AND for a single ROOM TYPE at ONE Time.



To see all the room types, (at least 1BR, 2BR, 3BR, studio)  use the drop down box to select the ones you want.

You can also see them for the whole month (Just one though)


----------



## staceyeileen

Does it still show you the month calendar where each day was colored a different shade based on if "many" or "Few" reservations are available?  (I can't get in....)


----------



## famy27

ronparise said:


> I wonder if all this availability you guys (I can't get in)  are seeing tonight is a mistake. It wasn't there last week but it is now?   I gotta wonder
> 
> And if it's a mistake, what's next.



If it's a mistake, I will have two disappointed kids. They really love Glacier Canyon. I'm just hoping these are cancellations...


----------



## Sandy VDH

Pathways said:


> To see all the room types, (at least 1BR, 2BR, 3BR, studio)  use the drop down box to select the ones you want.
> 
> You can also see them for the whole month (Just one though)




Yes I have tried this... I picked 1 RESORT, Used the drop down and picked all room types, and if you put NO dates in this is what you get....  YOU HAVE TO SELECT A ROOM TYPE to SEE INVENTORY.  And its 1 ROOM TYPE at a TIME. 

If you are getting something that shows everything "show me the money".


----------



## Sandy VDH

Zeke_62 said:


> The auto upgrade did not work for me.  I had auto upgrade on a reservation.   Cancelled the larger unit.  The larger unit returned to inventory where fortunately another 1br existed and I was able to book with upgrade.  Then cancelled the first 1br.



How much time did you give it?  I want to time that, but I didn't think I needed to look up inventory that was available with upgrades opportunities so I could test it.  But I can't search worth crap to find anything.


----------



## Sandy VDH

staceyeileen said:


> Does it still show you the month calendar where each day was colored a different shade based on if "many" or "Few" reservations are available?  (I can't get in....)




NOT a CHANCE either, see my post one or two above this.  That is the crap you do get.

I want the light and dark green back so badly.


----------



## Pathways

staceyeileen said:


> Does it still show you the month calendar where each day was colored a different shade based on if "many" or "Few" reservations are available?  (I can't get in....)



It actually says 'Limited Availability' on the calendar


----------



## cayman01

Okay, maybe this will be helpful with the search feature. When you want to search:

 Hit "BOOK" then
 Hit " View All Destinations"
 Pick the STATE you want to go to not the resort.
 Then put in your date range.
 Leave "unit options" as optional.
 Click "search"

It will list all the available units at all the resorts in that particular state. You can also pick certain areas like Orlando, Myrtle Beach etc. It will also give you the required points for the unit and option to book it.


----------



## cayman01

Pathways said:


> Anyone get into the RCI portal through the new site?


Yes, access it thru "My  Ownership" then click "Exchanges"


----------



## Sandy VDH

Pathways said:


> Anyone get into the RCI portal through the new site?



Work as it always did..... here is the where you find it on the new club site....


----------



## Sandy VDH

cayman01 said:


> Okay, maybe this will be helpful with the search feature. When you want to search:
> 
> Hit "BOOK" then
> Hit " View All Destinations"
> Pick the STATE you want to go to not the resort.
> Then put in your date range.
> Leave "unit options" as optional.
> Click "search"
> 
> It will list all the available units at all the resorts in that particular state. You can also pick certain areas like Orlando, Myrtle Beach etc. It will also give you the required points for the unit and option to book it.




Right,  except 50% or more of my searches I have NO DATES.  I want to see what is available over the next 2 months.   The date box is actually a CHECK IN and OUT dates and can only be for a max of 14 days.  The search results will then only show you something is 14 days in its entirety is available. 

Believe me I have tried everything I can think of that is available in the website. As I stated in an earlier post, if you KNOW your exact dates, the search is manageable.  If you DO NOT KNOW YOUR DATES, the search in UN-USABLE as it stands today.

However, if you search Sat to Sat and ONLY Fri to Fri is available and you do a 7 day search, you will get NADA.  As it is NOT an exact match on dates. At least the old system you saw green boxes and had an idea where to aim.  This new site, there is NO Aiming.  It is just a crap shot carnival game, if you are flexible with your dates.  This system is NOT designed to be flexible.  Which is really irritating.  I would love to know who they asked how they used search.


----------



## happyhopian

I cannot find a way to book 1 nite.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Pathways said:


> It actually says 'Limited Availability' on the calendar



IF and ONLY IF I have a single room type selected first.   which is my point, I DO NOT want to have to search each resort, by each room type to find something.

It shows limited availability or available BECAUSE I selected 2 BR deluxe which you can see is checked off on this screen shot.


----------



## Vacationfuntips

Pathways said:


> A lot of this site reminds me of the DVC website.  I HATED it at first, but now I have learned new tricks that actually save me time.
> 
> I do see some potential here, if they work out the bugs!


 
I think you are right about that. I have just learned how to select and check off all room sizes and to select all available properties for specific dates. I can also see the occupancy and room size info.

For me, this new website is time consuming - I must learn how to navigate it.  I liked the old website because it was simple. This is going to take some time.

There is a ton of inventory - I hope it is not too good to be true!

Cynthia T.


----------



## happyhopian

Sandy VDH said:


> Right,  except 50% or more of my searches I have NO DATES.  I want to see what is available over the next 2 months.   The date box is actually a CHECK IN and OUT dates and can only be for a max of 14 days.  The search results will then only show you something is 14 days in its entirety is available.
> 
> Believe me I have tried everything I can think of that is available in the website. As I stated in an earlier post, if you KNOW your exact dates, the search is manageable.  If you DO NOT KNOW YOUR DATES, the search in UN-USABLE as it stands today.
> 
> However, if you search Sat to Sat and ONLY Fri to Fri is available and you do a 7 day search, you will get NADA.  As it is NOT an exact match on dates. At least the old system you saw green boxes and had an idea where to aim.  This new site, there is NO Aiming.  It is just a crap shot carnival game, if you are flexible with your dates.  This system is NOT designed to be flexible.  Which is really irritating.  I would love to know who they asked how they used search.



I am in total agreement with this. If you know exactly what nights you want to travel and there is availability on that day you are golden but God forbid that date doesn't work because you will be adjusting night by night.

I can go to the check resort page but as you said I have to select a room size so I can't see if there ar eupgrades available at the same time. OF all the things they talked about changing they NEVER talked about changing the search features and thsi  THIS is a cluster


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> I cannot find a way to book 1 nite.



You can only book 1 night if you are within 15 days of checkin (I Tested this it worked , I might have to take this back, as I went to click on the book button and it failed to do anything, let me try a different way) . 

Added NOTE. If I do a search using the calendar, picking days and then picking the BOOk option on the page, nothing happens.  If I go back to the beginning and start a search with specific dates, then it books just fine.



I assumed you can still book 1 day if you are greater than 15 days from check in ONLY IF the 1 day is out there already, HOWEVER I assumed wrong.  It will NOT let me book that single night EVEN if it is already stranded and a single night.


----------



## happyhopian

Vacationfuntips said:


> I think you are right about that. I have just learned how to select and check off all room sizes and to select all available properties for specific dates. I can also see the occupancy and room size info.
> 
> For me, this new website is time consuming - I must learn how to navigate it.  I liked the old website because it was simple. This is going to take some time.
> 
> There is a ton of inventory - I hope it is not too good to be true!
> 
> Cynthia T.


How did you "select and check off all room sizes"? Did you have to specify check in = check out


----------



## happyhopian

Sandy VDH said:


> You can only book 1 night if you are within 15 days of checkin (I Tested this it worked fine) .  I assume you can still book 1 day if you are greater than 15 days from check in ONLY IF the 1 day is out there already.


Did that change in the last update or am I just not seeing any 1 nights available now?


----------



## cayman01

Sandy VDH said:


> Right,  except 50% or more of my searches I have NO DATES.  I want to see what is available over the next 2 months.   The date box is actually a CHECK IN and OUT dates and can only be for a max of 14 days.  The search results will then only show you something is 14 days in its entirety is available.
> 
> Believe me I have tried everything I can think of that is available in the website. As I stated in an earlier post, if you KNOW your exact dates, the search is manageable.  If you DO NOT KNOW YOUR DATES, the search in UN-USABLE as it stands today.
> 
> However, if you search Sat to Sat and ONLY Fri to Fri is available and you do a 7 day search, you will get NADA.  As it is NOT an exact match on dates. At least the old system you saw green boxes and had an idea where to aim.  This new site, there is NO Aiming.  It is just a crap shot carnival game, if you are flexible with your dates.  This system is NOT designed to be flexible.  Which is really irritating.  I would love to know who they asked how they used search.



I agree with you 100%,  but I really wasn't aiming at you dilemma with my post. I was really frustrated trying to search ANYTHING until I stumbled upon this search function. I was putting it out there for everybody who is struggling to get a grip on this thing.

I am guessing that our much loved green boxes were eliminated to make it harder on Megarenters and bots.


----------



## bendadin

I would just be happy to be able to log in.


----------



## happyhopian

cayman01 said:


> I agree with you 100%,  but I really wasn't aiming at you dilemma with my post. I was really frustrated trying to search ANYTHING until I stumbled upon this search function. I was putting it out there for everybody who is struggling to get a grip on this thing.
> 
> I am guessing that our much loved green boxes were eliminated to make it harder on Megarenters and bots.


They certainly succeed in making it hard - they just missed the target audience and got everyone. WTF knows exactly which dates they are travelling and isn't going to be flexible for that friday checkin instead of saturday. At least a +/- 4 would have been helpful!


----------



## happyhopian

bendadin said:


> I would just be happy to be able to log in.


I have one account which says your account is unavailable at this time (is that what yours is saying). I can get in on my other two accounts


----------



## Pathways

Sandy VDH said:


> IF and ONLY IF I have a single room type selected first. which is my point, I DO NOT want to have to search each resort, by each room type to find something.
> 
> It shows limited availability or available BECAUSE I selected 2 BR deluxe which you can see is checked off on this screen shot


You're right - when it shows the entire month you have to select a specific unit, one at a time. Not good. 

I too just figured out how to search for an entire region, not just one resort. It looks like the regions are the same as the old site.


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> Did that change in the last update or am I just not seeing any 1 nights available now?


I updated my response to this go back to my original post where I answered this.

I night is NOW only available in the last 14 (or 15 days) whatever the new date was.  I found a 1 night 25 days away.  And although it was already stranded and just 1 night, It would not let me book it, whereas the old system let you book stranded nights.


----------



## wed100105

Before the website "upgrade" or "enhancement" there was  quite a bit of last minute availablity at Glacier Canyon up through June 7. Now I can't find a single night in any size unit. Am I doing something wrong?

For what it is worth (and to Wyndham, I am certain that is nothing) I can't stand the new search feature. I like to book last minute with upgrades and points discounts. I'm not impressed with the new system.

I did go ahead and book a coupLe of units for Wililamsburg next spring though, hoping to be early in the upgrade line. I'm still interested in how that works. Being VIP Gold and not VIP Platinum, I'm guessing I don't stand a chance.


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> They certainly succeed in making it hard - they just missed the target audience and got everyone. WTF knows exactly which dates they are travelling and isn't going to be flexible for that friday checkin instead of saturday. At least a +/- 4 would have been helpful!



yes the + - is gone, as is the first available date.


----------



## Pathways

I take that back.

The regions are South, West, Midwest, and Northeast.  After that the search is by state


----------



## Sandy VDH

CO skier said:


> Could it be that the new search function is intentionally cumbersome to make it difficult for "bots" to operate?  Most owners probably have an idea of where they want to go, and when they want to go, and what size unit they want.  Searching is easy for them.



Well but intentionally too cumbersome for most people I would assume.

I disagree that MOST owners have an idea.  They have a week, but can likely live with a Fri, Sat or Sun checkin.  The only way to find that now is too run 3 separate searches, to do what used to be one search.


----------



## Sandy VDH

bendadin said:


> I would just be happy to be able to log in.



That just opens up a whole new level of frustration.  So you will get it sooner or later.


----------



## CO skier

cayman01 said:


> I am guessing that our much loved green boxes were eliminated to make it harder on Megarenters and bots.


I do not know if it was spin on the part of Spearman's attorneys, or if it was true, or if it led to much of the current collateral damage, but this is what the Spearman lawsuit revealed and it may put some of the changes in perspective:

*"Sometime in 2010,Wyndham began work on a new computer software system known as "Voyager." The program, which has not yet been implemented, is apparently intended to more strictly enforce the existing rules and close what Wyndham views as loopholes, such as the ability to cancel and then immediately rebook a reservation. (Doc. 123-53, at 4-5.) Wyndham added a provision to the 2011-2012 
member directory which stated that "The Program is for a Member’s own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes." (Doc. 123-75 at 3.)


Additionally, an enforcement provision was added, stating that "manipulation of the program rules and/or Wyndham employees to gain an unfair advantage" could result in refusal of services or access to Wyndham services and employees for a duration of time determined at Wyndham’s sole discretion. (Id. at 4.)"*


----------



## happyhopian

Sandy VDH said:


> Well but intentionally too cumbersome for most people I would assume.
> 
> I disagree that MOST owners have an idea.  They have a week, but can likely live with a Fri, Sat or Sun checkin.  The only way to find that now is too run 3 separate searches, to do what used to be one search.


3 separate searches...try 9 or more on a per room size basis. What if you want to upgrade. This is just awful because I can go to the beach any weekend in July but I have to search each weekend/ with alternates I've been trying for an hour


----------



## happyhopian

CO skier said:


> I do not know if it was spin on the part of Spearman's attorneys, or if it was true, or if it led to much of the current collateral damage, but this is what the Spearman lawsuit revealed and it may put some of the changes in perspective:
> 
> *"Sometime in 2010,Wyndham began work on a new computer software system known as "Voyager." The program, which has not yet been implemented, is apparently intended to more strictly enforce the existing rules and close what Wyndham views as loopholes, such as the ability to cancel and then immediately rebook a reservation. (Doc. 123-53, at 4-5.) Wyndham added a provision to the 2011-2012
> member directory which stated that "The Program is for a Member’s own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes." (Doc. 123-75 at 3.)
> 
> 
> Additionally, an enforcement provision was added, stating that "manipulation of the program rules and/or Wyndham employees to gain an unfair advantage" could result in refusal of services or access to Wyndham services and employees for a duration of time determined at Wyndham’s sole discretion. (Id. at 4.)"*


We just read that another owner posted here that they did a cancel re-book, upgrade on the new site. I know this has been a big deal to you for a long time but screwing up the search functions has nothing to do with eliminating that loop hole, which according to others is not closed with this upgrade.


----------



## am1

How does one add guests names?  My accounts are still locked.  Cannot book anything but can request automatic upgrades to already booked reservations.  I do not see where guests can be added.


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> 3 separate searches...try 9 or more on a per room size basis. What if you want to upgrade. This is just awful because I can go to the beach any weekend in July but I have to search each weekend/ with alternates I've been trying for an hour



Yep, USELESS.  Even for what the 60 Day discount window is suppose to be used for, which is my primary use, within the 60 day window to look at existing discount and upgrade OPPORTUNITIES,  WITHOUT the use of Cancel and Rebook to accomplish it, this delivered SEARCH Function is a deterrent not an enabler.  Are they even trying to eliminate the actual intended discounts, it certainly looks like, so perhaps now they just pick up all inventory, as we can't find or can't bother to find, and stick it in Extra vacations.

I would even be appeased if they could deliver the old light and dark green as a quick look up, but NOT bookable tool, UNTIL they made a more usable search function.


----------



## CO skier

Sandy VDH said:


> I disagree that MOST owners have an idea.  They have a week, but can likely live with a Fri, Sat or Sun checkin.  The only way to find that now is too run 3 separate searches, to do what used to be one search.


Slightly more inconvenient for the casual vacationer, possibly, but definitely not difficult.


----------



## happyhopian

CO skier said:


> Slightly more inconvenient for the casual vacationer, possibly, but definitely not difficult.


 Disagree. Go check the Facebook Wyndham pages...those are regular folks. Read what they are saying tonight. Look, I know it has been your dream to stick it to the mega's and the folks who you think abused the c/b/u options and this was a step in that direction but if you don't think this search function doesn't suck then you've lost all credibility.


----------



## Sandy VDH

am1 said:


> How does one add guests names?  My accounts are still locked.  Cannot book anything but can request automatic upgrades to already booked reservations.  I do not see where guests can be added.



See this post..... you find it the same place you access upgrade requests.

The New Club Wyndham Website


----------



## ronparise

happyhopian said:


> We just read that another owner posted here that they did a cancel re-book, upgrade on the new site. I know this has been a big deal to you for a long time but screwing up the search functions has nothing to do with eliminating that loop hole, which according to others is not closed with this upgrade.



The only reason someone can do a cancel rebook and upgrade today is that we all haven't checked the upgrade box on their reservations

In time most cancellations for the better reservations will become someone else's upgrade


----------



## chapjim

Sandy VDH said:


> Well but intentionally too cumbersome for most people I would assume.
> 
> I disagree that MOST owners have an idea.  They have a week, but can likely live with a Fri, Sat or Sun checkin.  The only way to find that now is too run 3 separate searches, to do what used to be one search.



The really old system used to be like that.  But, if I recall correctly, it showed unit numbers, which for a lot of resorts would be very useful.


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> We just read that another owner posted here that they did a cancel re-book, upgrade on the new site. I know this has been a big deal to you for a long time but screwing up the search functions has nothing to do with eliminating that loop hole, which according to others is not closed with this upgrade.



Yeah all 10 of us have managed to log in and put an upgrade request in.  Come on.  Overnight this will not happen, as of today and tomorrow perhaps it will work as it used to work.

All it means is that as of  today, virtually NO people have NOT gone in and put upgrade requests in yet.  So for the next few days and weeks it will act more like the old system, but as time goes on and people put upgrade requests in, upgrade opportunities will drop away from a cancel and rebook being 98% successful.


----------



## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> The only reason someone can do a cancel rebook and upgrade today is that we all haven't checked the upgrade box on their reservations
> 
> In time most cancellations for the better reservations will become someone else's upgrade



You and I are on the same wavelength Ron.


----------



## Sandy VDH

OK, anything else someone wants me to look up and pull my hair out.  For those who have no access.


----------



## wed100105

Interesting- I have searched availablity for all May and June for Glacier Canyon. I requested an upgrade on a two bedroom unit June 6-8. It upgraded me (about ten minutes after I requested it) to a three bedroom. There still shows no availablity though. The two bedroom unit I had booked did not come back and show up in inventory. 

I do not like this auto upgrade feature. I had held off on upgrading last week when the three bedroom was available, hoping for a presidential unit. Now you can't see them and choose the upgraded unit. 

I hope the VCs see exactly what we do. What a nightmare!!!


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> The only reason someone can do a cancel rebook and upgrade today is that we all haven't checked the upgrade box on their reservations
> 
> In time most cancellations for the better reservations will become someone else's upgrade


Thanks for the opinion. That might be true but there are a ton of conditions and according to the VC and OC I spoke with over the last two weeks they felt there would be lots of options available...of course this is the same team that didn't bother to mention how F'upd the search function was going to be so I wouldn't buy any stock in what they are selling..

The larger point is - no one saw a total revamp in search coming and forget what us dozen folks think. The facebook crowd is just waking up


----------



## CO skier

happyhopian said:


> Disagree. Go check the Facebook Wyndham pages...those are regular folks. Read what they are saying tonight. Look, I know it has been your dream to stick it to the mega's and the folks who you think abused the c/b/u options and this was a step in that direction but if you don't think this search function doesn't suck then you've lost all credibility.


Even many of the megarenters complained about the "bots".  If the cumbersome search function is aimed at the bot operations, it helps many of the megarenters, too, who thought they were losing reservations to the bots.


----------



## happyhopian

CO skier said:


> Even many of the megarenters complained about the "bots".


yes me too. Understand that a bot is a automated script searching for the same thing we are over and over again. No website can stop a bot unless they use captcha on entry points. the back end of the website is just a sql database. Over time someone will uncover the queries and write scripts to perform what the HTML code on the front end is doing. Because we (the regular users) have to go to six steps for each search and then we get limited results we will be miserable while the smart people get scripts coded for them to look for what they need. The front end of this search is WAY too specific for the average user. Only those who know they are traveling for 1 week, december 27th will find this site useful...again ignore our opinions, check what the facebook folks are saying. The bots had slowed down from all the observations I had since they implemented the captcha system. Sure this might slow them down even more for a while but at what cost to all of the mom/pop users who are trying to set up their retirement travel for the next four months?


----------



## dansyr2514

I just tried to book a room at a resort we have ARP in myrtle beach.  It is showing no availability for the entire year.


----------



## Avislo

happyhopian said:


> Thanks for the opinion. That might be true but there are a ton of conditions and according to the VC and OC I spoke with over the last two weeks they felt there would be lots of options available...of course this is the same team that didn't bother to mention how F'upd the search function was going to be so I wouldn't buy any stock in what they are selling..
> 
> The larger point is - no one saw a total revamp in search coming and forget what us dozen folks think. The facebook crowd is just waking up



I have tried to find the facebook page, can someone post the link?


----------



## Braindead

Wyndham definitely created an unfair advantage for a few of you tonight.


----------



## happyhopian

Avislo said:


> I have tried to find the facebook page, can someone post the link?


Facebook book people, forgive me for what I am about to do
https://www.facebook.com/groups/604919639644709/

There are several like this one


----------



## dansyr2514

Has anyone tried to book Wyndham ocean Blvd.  I'm getting no available any time for the next year?


----------



## CO skier

happyhopian said:


> yes me too. Understand that a bot is a automated script searching for the same thing we are over and over again. No website can stop a bot unless they use captcha on entry points. the back end of the website is just a sql database. Over time someone will uncover the queries and write scripts to perform what the HTML code on the front end is doing. Because we (the regular users) have to go to six steps for each search and then we get limited results we will be miserable while the smart people get scripts coded for them to look for what they need. The front end of this search is WAY too specific for the average user. Only those who know they are traveling for 1 week, december 27th will find this site useful...again ignore our opinions, check what the facebook folks are saying. The bots had slowed down from all the observations I had since they implemented the captcha system. Sure this might slow them down even more for a while but at what cost to all of the mom/pop users who are trying to set up their retirement travel for the next four months?


It is turning out to be a real rollercoaster ride for all of us.


----------



## Avislo

Thanks.


----------



## CCdad

Sandy VDH said:


> I updated my response to this go back to my original post where I answered this.
> 
> I night is NOW only available in the last 14 (or 15 days) whatever the new date was.  I found a 1 night 25 days away.  And although it was already stranded and just 1 night, It would not let me book it, whereas the old system let you book stranded nights.



That was a change that Wyndham made vs. the old reservation system and called it out specifically in the latest supplement. 

This is an issue for those that drive long distances and want a one night Wyndham timeshare stay along the way (e.g. northern snowbirds traveling south to warm weather during the late fall and winter).


----------



## happyhopian

Eventhough you can specify which pool points from from when booking I have confirmed that all points are treated as VIP under the new system even if you have some re-sale contracts in a VIP account. This was a big question about would the continue to extend benefits to all points. I've confirmed in booking that they are continuing this practice. Some good news for resale folks


----------



## happyhopian

CCdad said:


> That was a change that Wyndham made vs. the old reservation system and called it out specifically in the latest supplement.
> 
> This is an issue for those that drive long distances and want a one night Wyndham timeshare stay along the way (e.g. northern snowbirds traveling south to warm weather during the late fall and winter).



It is also a problem I find my self it often...I get two threes and need a one, or I have a three on a wed-fri and a three on sun-wed but I need to fill the saturday. I've got that problem right now.


----------



## Avislo

Midnight and all is well.  The site is up and running.  The point being it is after 11:45 p.m.  It looks like it is a go for bookings/cancellations, etc. throughout the night.


----------



## CO skier

happyhopian said:


> Facebook book people, forgive me for what I am about to do
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/604919639644709/
> 
> There are several like this one


From the link:

"At first glance it seemed to add keystrokes. But after a few minutes if you remember the old site I searched by region like southeast for instance and put in a check in date and length of stay and all unit sizes. It brought up a 2 month calendar and you had to hit show availability at a particular resort. To see other resort availabilty you had to hit new search. Now it shows everything available for instance in Myrtle Beach for your travel dates. Just leave room as optional. So that is a plus for me."


Most of the complaints are about not being able to logon while others can.


----------



## Bigrob

I don't think anything could have prepared everyone for the very significant changes in the way the site has to be navigated, and the loss of some functionality apparently, unless they are still working on rolling bits and pieces out. I did note that there was an indication that VIP discounts were not working.

Here is an example search result that presents all the options from a search and allows for immediate booking against them.


----------



## chapjim

Bigrob said:


> I don't think anything could have prepared everyone for the very significant changes in the way the site has to be navigated, and the loss of some functionality apparently, unless they are still working on rolling bits and pieces out. I did note that there was an indication that VIP discounts were not working.
> 
> Here is an example search result that presents all the options from a search and allows for immediate booking against them.



Book a 1BR unit at Star Island starting July 7th.  You'll get an auto-upgrade to a 2BR LO.


----------



## Zeke_62

Sandy VDH said:


> How much time did you give it?  I want to time that, but I didn't think I needed to look up inventory that was available with upgrades opportunities so I could test it.  But I can't search worth crap to find anything.


The 4 prez had returned by the time I went through the multi step search - so fairly quickly.    But - I did get an upgrade on another one I put in as a test.


----------



## ronparise

Avislo said:


> Midnight and all is well.  The site is up and running.  The point being it is after 11:45 p.m.  It looks like it is a go for bookings/cancellations, etc. throughout the night.


Not for all of us


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> Eventhough you can specify which pool points from from when booking I have confirmed that all points are treated as VIP under the new system even if you have some re-sale contracts in a VIP account. This was a big question about would the continue to extend benefits to all points. I've confirmed in booking that they are continuing this practice. Some good news for resale folks



Can someone show a screen shot of this.  I think I can't see it as I only have pooled points at this exact moment so there is no choice.  But since I have no access to my points balances and history, since that has disappeared from my website, but it was their previously.


----------



## Sandy VDH

At least now the system generates an email when a reservation is cancelled.  That is better, before you had no indication if someone else screwed up and cancelled your booking, which we know has happened, either accidentally, systematically or nefariously.


----------



## MaryBella7

I still can't get in


----------



## ilya

lhumes7 said:


> I still can't get in



Me neither. Is there any rhyme or reason. Like, are all megarenters shut out etc.. I am not one of those..


----------



## antjmar

dansyr2514 said:


> I just tried to book a room at a resort we have ARP in myrtle beach.  It is showing no availability for the entire year.


Strange I own at seawatch and saw lots of availability including 3 bedrooms for this July. These are usually tough to get at 13 months with ARP!


----------



## dansyr2514

antjmar said:


> Strange I own at seawatch and saw lots of availability including 3 bedrooms for this July. These are usually tough to get at 13 months with ARP!


It pulled up all other myrtle beach resorts but not ocean Blvd.


----------



## wed100105

Could someone please search Glacier a Canyon for summer and tell me if you see anything? Again this morning, I see nothing available. Before the change, there were multiple units available through June 7.


----------



## whitewater

wed100105 said:


> Could someone please search Glacier a Canyon for summer and tell me if you see anything? Again this morning, I see nothing available. Before the change, there were multiple units available through June 7.


I am not seeing anything either.  1br-4br.  

your searching is correct.


----------



## pagosajim

happyhopian said:


> No website can stop a bot unless they use captcha on entry points. the back end of the website is just a sql database. Over time someone will uncover the queries and write scripts to perform what the HTML code on the front end is doing.



If they coded the site to allow what is called "sql injection", the IT department is truly more inept than I could ever have imagined.  This is web security 101 territory.


----------



## dansyr2514

Can someone check and see if you have any availability for Wyndham ocean Blvd.  I even tried to check the middle of January and nothing!


----------



## sbthomas

Can anyone see their points?  I get this error page:


----------



## happyhopian

Are all the resorts online? I'm looking at emerald grande in destin and there is nothing available for the next year in any room category. This can't be right. Can someone else check


----------



## happyhopian

pagosajim said:


> If they coded the site to allow what is called "sql injection", the IT department is truly more inept than I could ever have imagined.  This is web security 101 territory.


not injection, just clearing security then parsing out the html commands to run without going through all the graphic navigation. The bots can run them over and over again. Two different issues.

That being said, I give their IT department no credit for anything.


----------



## paxsarah

dansyr2514 said:


> Can someone check and see if you have any availability for Wyndham ocean Blvd.  I even tried to check the middle of January and nothing!



No results. I wonder if it has anything to do with the multiple HOAs. Last night I had checked other MB resorts, since we own at OB and I wanted to make sure I could access ARP at e.g. Seawatch (which I can).


----------



## sbthomas

i just checked for you.  All I can see are 3 bedroom units and no availability at emerald grand
!


----------



## scootr5

Sandy VDH said:


> I don't know where points history is off main tab, but at the bottom right of a reservation detail page I found
> "GO TO POINTS HISTORY"
> 
> View attachment 3919
> 
> 
> Then you get to what is basically a summary of points, you can't see them all at once you have to select by Use years (these are currently what is left of my 2017 pooled points, that I did back on May 9th.  It also show GC count remaining, and HK credits remaining.  Because I am VIP, it states UNLIMITED.
> 
> There is a point history farther down, but since it started yesterday, I have not done a transaction. (I just cut of that part of the screen as it had no detail.
> 
> The current use year is a drop down.  That works for now until they put the points tab back for me.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3918



I don't have a points history off the main tab, nor does that link to points history appear on any of my confirmation pages. Basically, I can't find any way to do one of the simplest things and see how many points I have.

Also, I still have a mystery "Alicia A******n" appearing as a co-owner on all of the drop downs, and my wife's name is nowhere to be found.


----------



## bestresort

I give it a big fat zero.

Still cant bring one of my accounts up as of monday morning. 
You can tell they didnt talk to users. Good features on the old process are gone. They slammed it in and its full of bugs
They dont show running tab of guest cert
They keep spaming you with overlap warning
Its cumbersome. Chrome browser and new sit are not tuned
Im an expert in booking, it took an hour to book 2 reservations.
People will abandoned doing it themselves and will call up agent

The new system sucks and anyone that owns 1 point has had their points devalued with this pos

Disgusted


----------



## bestresort

we need to kick wyndham out


happyhopian said:


> Disagree. Go check the Facebook Wyndham pages...those are regular folks. Read what they are saying tonight. Look, I know it has been your dream to stick it to the mega's and the folks who you think abused the c/b/u options and this was a step in that direction but if you don't think this search function doesn't suck then you've lost all credibility.


AGREED 100 %


----------



## Avislo

scootr5 said:


> I don't have a points history off the main tab, nor does that link to points history appear on any of my confirmation pages. Basically, I can't find any way to do one of the simplest things and see how many points I have.
> 
> Also, I still have a mystery "Alicia A******n" appearing as a co-owner on all of the drop downs, and my wife's name is nowhere to be found.



The fix probably has to be initiated by you through Title.  They will/should put in a request to basically review the affected contract(s) and put the right names on the contracts and hopefully correct the Account Name if needed (This point may or may not be title but Owner Service/Owner Care on the account name.

Different point:  If something does seem right on a resort or resorts and you want a reservation, it is not unheard of that the call in process gives different answers than the on-line system.  It is worth a call.

Different point:  Hopefully the on-line system is now available to everyone.


----------



## ilya

Has anyone been able to get through to Wyndham this morning  for those whose "account was not available at this time".


----------



## Sandi Bo

ilya said:


> Me neither. Is there any rhyme or reason. Like, are all megarenters shut out etc.. I am not one of those..



Me neither.  I had 2 existing logins setup (as suggested before the conversion).  I registered a 3rd last night. The registration portion worked but that login doesn't work either (once registered can't login).


----------



## seascapemvy

I have been unable to log in all weekend.  I keep trying.  I see some have gotten on so I hope I will sometime today.


----------



## ilya

Sandi Bo said:


> Me neither.  I had 2 existing logins setup (as suggested before the conversion).  I registered a 3rd last night. The registration portion worked but that login doesn't work either (once registered can't login).




How can they think this is fair to let all the upgrade opportunities go to a selected people? I wonder?


----------



## ilya

seascapemvy said:


> I have been unable to log in all weekend.  I keep trying.  I see some have gotten on so I hope I will sometime today.



I was able to log in Saturday for a few minutes. no nothing.


----------



## ilya

Sandi Bo said:


> Me neither.  I had 2 existing logins setup (as suggested before the conversion).  I registered a 3rd last night. The registration portion worked but that login doesn't work either (once registered can't login).


I called at 8:00 and still waiting for someone to pick up.


----------



## dagger1

seascapemvy said:


> I have been unable to log in all weekend.  I keep trying.  I see some have gotten on so I hope I will sometime today.


I keep getting "your account is unavailable"...  I've reset my password online, but still get this message.  Called VC and they said no troubleshooting was available today, but they forwarded my member number and problem over to IT for resolution (I hope....!)


----------



## Sandi Bo

ilya said:


> How can they think this is fair to let all the upgrade opportunities go to a selected people? I wonder?


When I called yesterday they said they weren't meaning to let anyone in (until today).  I said you think these people (saying they are in) are lying?  In which the VC said it's not them letting people in -  it's the system (artificial intelligence-I wonder if it's self healing)?


----------



## Sandi Bo

dagger1 said:


> I keep getting "your account is unavailable"...  I've reset my password online, but still get this message.  Called VC and they said no troubleshooting was available today, but they forwarded my member number and problem over to IT for resolution (I hope....!)


Seriously?  No troubleshooting available today? This just gets better and better (I too am holding for a VC - now I know to expect nothing).


----------



## antjmar

paxsarah said:


> No results. I wonder if it has anything to do with the multiple HOAs. Last night I had checked other MB resorts, since we own at OB and I wanted to make sure I could access ARP at e.g. Seawatch (which I can).


Where you able to book a unit?
I can see them, when I select an arp  unit I get an error...


----------



## cayman01

happyhopian said:


> 3 separate searches...try 9 or more on a per room size basis. What if you want to upgrade. This is just awful because I can go to the beach any weekend in July but I have to search each weekend/ with alternates I've been trying for an hour


Try the way I described. Only three searches at most.


----------



## ilya

Sandi Bo said:


> Seriously?  No troubleshooting available today? This just gets better and better (I too am holding for a VC - now I know to expect nothing).



I really need to add  guest . Or do they want to cancel all my reservations? I have a small account compared to most on here  so I don't know why they would prevent me from getting in.


----------



## littlestar

I got in with my IPad but I cannot see my Wyndham point balances anywhere on the site. All of our contracts are showing up with all deed names showing correctly, though.  I did a search for Bonnet Creek for the last week of September and it shows no availability. 

I was able to access the RCI portal and our point balance and reservations are showing up correctly on the RCI side.


----------



## dagger1

Sandi Bo said:


> Seriously?  No troubleshooting available today? This just gets better and better (I too am holding for a VC - now I know to expect nothing).


I was able to call in at exactly 8 AM (Eastern).  The VC was very kind and professional.  She pulled up all of my reservations and everything is there and correct.  Then she put me on hold to call IT, to see if they could help.  When she came back, she informed me that "no troubleshooting" was available today, and that she would forward my issue to them.  I will update if/when anything happens...


----------



## cayman01

happyhopian said:


> We just read that another owner posted here that they did a cancel re-book, upgrade on the new site. I know this has been a big deal to you for a long time but screwing up the search functions has nothing to do with eliminating that loop hole, which according to others is not closed with this upgrade.



They can't eliminate it as it is a selling point at the updates. But they can make it much more difficult to do. Ron isn't going to be able to cancel and rebook all of Avenue Plaza for Mardi Gras (that is a joke), the Megarenters are going to lose a lot of reservations if they try c&B at popular spots. However, if you book Rancho Vistoso for Feruary, I think C&B will work just fine for you.


----------



## ilya

dagger1 said:


> I keep getting "your account is unavailable"...  I've reset my password online, but still get this message.  Called VC and they said no troubleshooting was available today, but they forwarded my member number and problem over to IT for resolution (I hope....!)


Yeah, they did that last night for me .. They put me on hold several times and talked to It. They probably sat with their thumb up their but and did nothing. Maybe this is there way to call for a audit on our accounts..


----------



## dagger1

ilya said:


> Yeah, they did that last night for me .. They put me on hold several times and talked to It. They probably sat with their thumb up their but and did nothing. Maybe this is there way to call for a audit on our accounts..


Could be....!  We don't have many points, if this is an "audit" issue, hopefully it will go fast!!


----------



## paxsarah

antjmar said:


> Where you able to book a unit?
> I can see them, when I select an arp  unit I get an error...



I got as far as a 15-minute hold, but didn't follow through with booking.


----------



## wed100105

Sandi Bo said:


> When I called yesterday they said they weren't meaning to let anyone in (until today).  I said you think these people (saying they are in) are lying?  In which the VC said it's not them letting people in -  it's the system (artificial intelligence-I wonder if it's self healing)?


 
I'm a regular here on TUG. I'm not lying; I could get in when I tried last night. (I hadn't tried earlier.) I booked two reservations for next March at Governor's Green in Williamsburg. I clicked to upgrade if available on a reservation I have at Glacier Canyon for June 6. 

I could not find any availability for summer at Glacier Canyon, but could find multiple units starting in September--including weekends which had been sold out up until the no overlapping reservations rule. 

I trust 99% of Tuggers; I highly doubt any of them are lying.


----------



## scootr5

scootr5 said:


> I don't have a points history off the main tab, nor does that link to points history appear on any of my confirmation pages. Basically, I can't find any way to do one of the simplest things and see how many points I have.
> 
> Also, I still have a mystery "Alicia A******n" appearing as a co-owner on all of the drop downs, and my wife's name is nowhere to be found.



I called in, and my call was misrouted. I'm actually on the phone with someone from IT "triage" that has been working on the backend. He submitted a ticket to get the ownership info corrected, but he also can't find the points status screen. He's now transferring me over to one of his colleagues that has been working on the outward facing site to see if they can help me.


----------



## scootr5

wed100105 said:


> I could not find any availability for summer at Glacier Canyon, but could find multiple units starting in September--including weekends which had been sold out up until the no overlapping reservations rule.



As of this morning, there were 1, 2 and 3 bedroom deluxe units for the weekend of New Year's Eve.


----------



## Lmcarr49

ilya said:


> Has anyone been able to get through to Wyndham this morning  for those whose "account was not available at this time".


I still can't get in. I've been on hold with Wyndham for almost an hour and a half.


----------



## bendadin

Lmcarr49 said:


> I still can't get in. I've been on hold with Wyndham for almost an hour and a half.



I'm still locked out as well. I tried to change my password and the reset email never came.


----------



## buckor

I am still getting the "Your account is unavailable at this time" message. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## Lmcarr49

bendadin said:


> I'm still locked out as well. I tried to change my password and the reset email never came.


I finally got through on the phone and they couldn't reset my password either. She told me to call back another day since they're actively working on the problem. She said they just got an email about the problem.


----------



## bendadin

Lmcarr49 said:


> I finally got through on the phone and they couldn't reset my password either. She told me to call back another day since they're actively working on the problem. She said they just got an email about the problem.



Ugh! I guess that I can hang up now. That soundtrack was getting annoying anyway.


----------



## philb702

scootr5 said:


> As of this morning, there were 1, 2 and 3 bedroom deluxe units for the weekend of New Year's Eve.



If you have a chance, can you check to see if you see those (or any availability) at GC? It's showing completely booked for me through 2017. That can't be right.


----------



## Sandi Bo

I held for 1 1/2 hours, been talking to someone now for over 1/2 hour. 

They are fumbling around just like us.  Registered another member (that's 4 now) that can't login in.

VC says most people can't get in (that's supposed to make us feel better as they work out the kinks). 

VC is trying to book a room for me (with a VIP discount and it's not working).   She suggested I wait 3 or 4 days and then try to book the room (as today is the first day the 50% discount applies).  This is not a cancel / rebook - just tying to book an available room.

I said it concerned me to have her transact on my account when I've not been able to get in thus have not had a chance to compare pre to post conversion points, reservations, etc.  And... she said no one can see their point balances right now.   (Ok, do I feel better NOW)?

Again, I scolded them for not being ready and that they should not have gone live if they weren't ready. She assured me all new systems take time to work out these small kinks.


----------



## ilya

bendadin said:


> I'm still locked out as well. I tried to change my password and the reset email never came.



I was told they locked some people out that were delinquent, and cancelled their reservations.


----------



## ilya

Lmcarr49 said:


> I still can't get in. I've been on hold with Wyndham for almost an hour and a half.


I did get  someone on the phone. Were not able to cancel or add a guest to a few of my reservations, but still not able to login myself. I did ask if this was a way they can now AUDIT more accounts. The people who are LOCKED OUT are accounts that were not up to date in payment. The people who get "account is not available at this time " is some glitch in the system.  How many people are able to get online?


----------



## Braindead

I just got off the phone. They are now telling everyone not to call back for 24 hrs. Just try periodically to access your account but don't bother us is their attitude. 
I'm surprised I got in Saturday just fine right before the new site went back down.


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> I just got off the phone. They are now telling everyone not to call back for 24 hrs. Just try periodically to access your account but don't bother us is their attitude.
> I'm surprised I got in Saturday just fine right before the new site went back down.




Me too.  What a ENHANCED VACATION EXPERIENCE this is..


----------



## asreiter

ilya said:


> I was told they locked some people out that were delinquent, and cancelled their reservations.



That is a lie......I'm current on everything and I'm locked out. Wyndham will pass the blame whenever they can


----------



## bendadin

ilya said:


> I was told they locked some people out that were delinquent, and cancelled their reservations.



I'm not delinquent. I just looked and they charged my fabulous Barclay Wyndham Rewards card on May 9th. They need a new excuse.


----------



## dagger1

asreiter said:


> That is a lie......I'm current on everything and I'm locked out. Wyndham will pass the blame whenever they can


We are current...  Just can't log in...


----------



## ilya

bendadin said:


> I'm not delinquent. I just looked and they charged my fabulous Barclay Wyndham Rewards card on May 9th. They need a new excuse.


 The new and old excuse. They just don't care.  The same thing is happening as did before. The inventory is being taken up by selected people, and the upgrades too.  (I am not blaming them) What Wyndham tried to prevent they just created BIGLY...


----------



## Avislo

ilya said:


> I did get  someone on the phone. Were not able to cancel or add a guest to a few of my reservations, but still not able to login myself. I did ask if this was a way they can now AUDIT more accounts. The people who are LOCKED OUT are accounts that were not up to date in payment. The people who get "account is not available at this time " is some glitch in the system.  How many people are able to get online?



As of this morning, am still able to get in and watch things.  Took the plunge this morning.  Can book through the entire process including the reservations section updating.


----------



## dagger1

We are "resale" only.  I wonder if any "VIP" accounts are "not available", or just "resale" accounts?  Or maybe accounts are available in order of registration?


----------



## comicbookman

I know there was a tab to see my remaining points, but know I can't find it.  Did it disappear or am I just missing it?


----------



## Free2Roam

dagger1 said:


> We are "resale" only.  I wonder if any "VIP" accounts are "not available", or just "resale" accounts?  Or maybe accounts are available in order of registration?


I'm just a lowly Silver VIP member... I cannot get in.  I registered for the preview site months ago and had no problems getting in pre-upgrade.  I created a new login for one of the other owners... the login was created "successfully" but can't sign in using that one either.


----------



## sbthomas

they just took down the points tab.  It was under ownership but it was blank  - just got the 'page not found' message.  I called to find out my points balance because it is not allowing me to book something that I should have enough points for.  She had trouble finding my credit pool points and then they were wrong!  ugh!  Why would you roll out a system if the points were not working???


----------



## Lmcarr49

ilya said:


> I was told they locked some people out that were delinquent, and cancelled their reservations.


LOL. Now they're making excuses. I'm current on my maintenance fees. Contracts are paid off.


----------



## Lmcarr49

People on Facebook are now saying they can't find their points or the tab is gone.


----------



## scootr5

comicbookman said:


> I know there was a tab to see my remaining points, but know I can't find it.  Did it disappear or am I just missing it?



You can see my posts in this thread (#180 and #203) and Sandi Bo's post #211 - I can't see my points status either. I managed to get connected to someone in the backend IT who said it should be there, but he could not find it either. He transferred me to another colleague who was more familiar than he was with the customer-facing info, but I gave up after being on hold for 90 minutes.

I'm more concerned about the other person I don't know being listed as an owner on my account.


----------



## scootr5

At least now they have a disclaimer up on the main page
"*! New Features Status*
Please keep in the mind some of the new features and functionality may be temporarily unavailable over the next few days as we continue to upgrade your online experience. We appreciate your patience and understanding."
​


----------



## antjmar

comicbookman said:


> I know there was a tab to see my remaining points, but know I can't find it.  Did it disappear or am I just missing it?


Mine disappeared too!


----------



## richardm

Looks like you have to wait until the end date of your reservation to be within the VIP discount window for your discount to be applied to the whole reservation, otherwise it appears they just apply the discount to the first day of your stay and the remainder are shown at full points.  Anyone else noticed this change?


----------



## Sandy VDH

Note I am an IT Business Analyst (I am available for hire by the way), so this is my job.

He is my first cut at a summary of issues.

*Major show stopping problems* (and comments on possible redesign solutions for #5):
1) Can't log in
2) Account Unavailable at this time
3) Incorrect owners on your account
4) Points Page missing, no access to point balances
5) Unusable search, especially if you are doing a flexible type search for last minute inventory, that is NOT date driven but is availability driven. (So many problems here I could rant for days.  But in additional to only being able to see 1 RESORT, 1 UNIT TYPE, 1 MONTH detailed availability, if you go to switch the unit type it changes the calendar BACK to today, so if you were looking in July you have to keep forwarding the calendar over and over each time you change the unit type.  So no Wyndham is just adding insult to injury on the search capabilities.  Could treat this as modify vs New Search and selecting new search will clear the calendar month you are currently viewing.)
6) Overwhelmed and Unresponsive VC and IT communities within Wyndham. How do you even get a ticket it to resolve a problem if the hold time is 2 hrs and they tell you to call back in a few days.


*Minor annoyances*
1) My reservations are displaying in Reverse Chronological order, my farthest out reservation is first on the list, my upcoming reservation is last on the list.  And this is the DEFAULT view.  I can switch it, but come on.
2) Have an existing search and you select modify to change the date range.  The location field is populated with your last search request, except that the system does not recognize it and you must re-enter this information again, even though the system is filling in that field, in order to get the search box to be activated (Search box changes from Greyed out to Blue)   Why pre-fill fields with invalid data.
3) When scrolling through detailed calendar driven availabiltiy (what is now the equivalent of the green box view), you can only go forward or back 1 month at a time, (and its slow), can you not allow a jump to a given month, by having a month drop down that is active.


.....  any additions to this summary, please add to the summary list.


My commentary....

*Biggest and Longest Pain we will suffer*
So once access and other major issues are resolved (points and people), #5 above is going to be MY vote for the WORST of these, as this is not going to change unless there is a design and coding change.

*Short Term Fix*
My short term resolution is for Wyndham to temporarily put up the search function of the old system as a look up inventory only, but disable the booking function and make it 'display only" current inventory as pulled from whatever database the new system is pointing at.   I could at least live with that short term, while not ideal, but at least it is functional, until they get this shit show of a search USEFUL.  Look up available inventory in the old search and then enter the date in and date out you know have inventory in the search in the new system. Workable for me short term, but you have to do something.  It does not work to search when NO dates are provided.

*User Stories for Search types *(opportunistic vs focused, NOTE my terminology not Wyndham's)
Whoever designed this system clearly has never considered doing a search for anything other than "I want to go to Orlando on November 7 to 14, show me All the available inventory for the date range I want."  OK, the new search they unveiled does that just fine.  However, that is not me, I want the search that is "I want to go to FL for a few days in the next 60 days, what inventory is available PERIOD.  I want to see what my VIP Benefits I can take advantage of during the Discount Period".  This is the exact thing that Discounts and Upgrades were intended to be used for, However they built a system that does not allow you do to that.   I do that kind of search 80% of the time, yet the search function as build is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE for that kind of search.  I am not concerned with Cancel and Rebook here, I am trying to use VIP Benefits are originally intended.  (Do you hear me Wyndham).


----------



## wed100105

Something has changed with availability. GC now shows on three bedrooms available the entire month of January, and you know there has to be availability on some of those weekdays. What a mess!

I can't wait for a pushy parking pass person to ask me to attend a meeting....they aren't going to want me there!


----------



## wed100105

Sandy VDH said:


> Note I am an IT Business Analyst (I am available for hire by the way), so this is my job.
> .
> 
> *User Stories for Search types *(opportunistic vs focused, NOTE my terminology not Wyndham's)
> Whoever designed this system clearly has never considered doing a search for anything other than "I want to go to Orlando on November 7 to 14, show me All the available inventory for the date range I want."  OK, the new search they unveiled does that just fine.  However, that is not me, I want the search that is "I want to go to FL for a few days in the next 60 days, what inventory is available PERIOD.  I want to see what my VIP Benefits I can take advantage of during the Discount Period".  This is the exact thing that Discounts and Upgrades were intended to be used for, However they built a system that does not allow you do to that.   I do that kind of search 80% of the time, yet the search function as build is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE for that kind of search.  I am not concerned with Cancel and Rebook here, I am trying to use VIP Benefits are originally intended.  (Do you hear me Wyndham).




EXCELLENT POST AND SUMMARY!!!! 

The part that I quoted above is my biggest frustration!


----------



## Sandy VDH

richardm said:


> Looks like you have to wait until the end date of your reservation to be within the VIP discount window for your discount to be applied to the whole reservation, otherwise it appears they just apply the discount to the first day of your stay and the remainder are shown at full points.  Anyone else noticed this change?



Since they went to a every date is a separate inventory bucket when they removed the split reservation concept, then systematically this would make sense.  If that is the case they need to change their wording on Discount Period from Check in Date to now Check Out Date.

 (*Updated*: Oh never mind they did, there is that big warning when you log in that states...VIP Discounts
The VIP discount function is *under construction*. To book a new reservation using your VIP discount, you must select a location, AND check-in and *check-out* dates that fall *within *the VIP discount window (60 days prior to check-in).

Don't really like it, but I get why it happened.  i hate split reservations anyway.  So what can you do.

(*updated*: it does say in the note above that this is under construction, so maybe they are planning a coding change that would all a discount for all days if the checkin is 60 days away.  cross your fingers and hope for it)


----------



## richardm

I don't think the plan was to make it easier or more efficient. That never seems to be an agenda for any timeshare developer.  Hopefully, they'll get enough complaints and push back from owners that it becomes less of a hassle to try to make the new website search more user friendly than to keep taking those phone calls. 

The one thing I'd love to find out is exactly how many "points" will Wyndham be able to recover as "forfeiture" from members who are unaware of the new rules. And..... If those points will even out the lost points from the stripped contracts they took back from certain individuals  and the lost points from the past system glitches.


----------



## chapjim

scootr5 said:


> I don't have a points history off the main tab, nor does that link to points history appear on any of my confirmation pages. Basically, I can't find any way to do one of the simplest things and see how many points I have.
> 
> Also, I still have a mystery "Alicia A******n" appearing as a co-owner on all of the drop downs, and my wife's name is nowhere to be found.



We had a guy named Leroy on our account for years.  Finally got him removed.  Should have left him there -- he wasn't bothering anything!


----------



## Sandy VDH

chapjim said:


> We had a guy named Leroy on our account for years.  Finally got him removed.  Should have left him there -- he wasn't bothering anything!



Hey you could have used him to hold another reservation at the same time to avoid overlapping issues.


----------



## chapjim

Sandy VDH said:


> Hey you could have used him to hold another reservation at the same time to avoid overlapping issues.



Exactly my point!


----------



## chapjim

Sandy VDH said:


> Note I am an IT Business Analyst (I am available for hire by the way), so this is my job.
> 
> He is my first cut at a summary of issues.
> 
> *Major show stopping problems* (and comments on possible redesign solutions for #5):
> 1) Can't log in
> 2) Account Unavailable at this time
> 3) Incorrect owners on your account
> 4) Points Page missing, no access to point balances
> 5) Unusable search, especially if you are doing a flexible type search for last minute inventory, that is NOT date driven but is availability driven. (So many problems here I could rant for days.  But in additional to only being able to see 1 RESORT, 1 UNIT TYPE, 1 MONTH detailed availability, if you go to switch the unit type it changes the calendar BACK to today, so if you were looking in July you have to keep forwarding the calendar over and over each time you change the unit type.  So no Wyndham is just adding insult to injury on the search capabilities.  Could treat this as modify vs New Search and selecting new search will clear the calendar month you are currently viewing.)
> 6) Overwhelmed and Unresponsive VC and IT communities within Wyndham. How do you even get a ticket it to resolve a problem if the hold time is 2 hrs and they tell you to call back in a few days.
> 
> 
> *Minor annoyances*
> 1) My reservations are displaying in Reverse Chronological order, my farthest out reservation is first on the list, my upcoming reservation is last on the list.  And this is the DEFAULT view.  I can switch it, but come on.
> 2) Have an existing search and you select modify to change the date range.  The location field is populated with your last search request, except that the system does not recognize it and you must re-enter this information again, even though the system is filling in that field, in order to get the search box to be activated (Search box changes from Greyed out to Blue)   Why pre-fill fields with invalid data.
> 3) When scrolling through detailed calendar driven availabiltiy (what is now the equivalent of the green box view), you can only go forward or back 1 month at a time, (and its slow), can you not allow a jump to a given month, by having a month drop down that is active.
> 
> 
> .....  any additions to this summary, please add to the summary list.
> 
> 
> My commentary....
> 
> *Biggest and Longest Pain we will suffer*
> So once access and other major issues are resolved (points and people), #5 above is going to be MY vote for the WORST of these, as this is not going to change unless there is a design and coding change.
> 
> *Short Term Fix*
> My short term resolution is for Wyndham to temporarily put up the search function of the old system as a look up inventory only, but disable to booking function and make it display current inventory as pulled from whatever database the new system is pointing at.   I could at least live with that short term, while not ideal but at least functional, until they get this shit show of a search USEFUL.  Look up available inventory in the old search and then enter the date in and date out you know have inventory in the search in the new system.
> 
> *User Stories for Search types *(opportunistic vs focused, NOTE my terminology not Wyndham's)
> Whoever designed this system clearly has never considered doing a search for anything other than "I want to go to Orlando on November 7 to 14, show me All the available inventory for the date range I want."  OK, the new search they unveiled does that just fine.  However, that is not me, I want the search that is "I want to go to FL for a few days in the next 60 days, what inventory is available PERIOD.  I want to see what my VIP Benefits I can take advantage of during the Discount Period".  This is the exact thing that Discounts and Upgrades were intended to be used for, However they built a system that does not allow you do to that.   I do that kind of search 80% of the time, yet the search function as build is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE for that kind of search.  I am not concerned with Cancel and Rebook here, I am trying to use VIP Benefits are originally intended.  (Do you hear me Wyndham).



Try printing all your reservations.  If I print in portrait mode, it chops off the Check-in Name, even though the right half of the paper is blank.  Since the right side of the page is blank, I can only print about five reservations per page.  If I change it to landscape mode, Check-in Name prints but now I only get three reservations per page.  Shouldn't have to take twenty pages to print a list of reservations.

WHEN DOES THE 48 HOURS START??


----------



## Free2Roam

I wonder when the countdown starts for the "48 hours after the new system launches" before they start cancelling overlapping reservations. I don't have any, but I would guess that some people do.

(chapjim - same thoughts.  I got distracted after I started my post... and didn't refresh to see most recent comments before posting.)


----------



## Bigrob

I've been on the phone for two hours now, and my net accomplishment has been to add one guest confirmation.


----------



## Avislo

chapjim said:


> Try printing all your reservations.  If I print in portrait mode, it chops off the Check-in Name, even though the right half of the paper is blank.  Since the right side of the page is blank, I can only print about five reservations per page.  If I change it to landscape mode, Check-in Name prints but now I only get three reservations per page.  Shouldn't have to take twenty pages to print a list of reservations.
> 
> WHEN DOES THE 48 HOURS START??



Go to the reservations page, click select all, open a word processor, paste into the word processor, then delete extra spaces, leave a blank line between reservations.  Each reservation should fit on one line when done.  I would not think about how competent Wyndham is when doing this.  It would just raise your blood pressure.


----------



## Braindead

dagger1 said:


> We are "resale" only.  I wonder if any "VIP" accounts are "not available", or just "resale" accounts?  Or maybe accounts are available in order of registration?


We are VIP Platinum on auto pay. I was able to log in Saturday. Last night and today get the  NOT AVAILABLE message.


----------



## scootr5

chapjim said:


> WHEN DOES THE 48 HOURS START??



Well, the website was up on Saturday, until it wasn't. And then it was up on Sunday, and then it wasn't. Now it seems like it's up for good, but not working correctly for us (and a lot of owners still can't log in). Knowing Wyndham, they'll probably say it started this morning.

I'd say give them a call, but...


----------



## ilya

chapjim said:


> Try printing all your reservations.  If I print in portrait mode, it chops off the Check-in Name, even though the right half of the paper is blank.  Since the right side of the page is blank, I can only print about five reservations per page.  If I change it to landscape mode, Check-in Name prints but now I only get three reservations per page.  Shouldn't have to take twenty pages to print a list of reservations.
> 
> WHEN DOES THE 48 HOURS START??




Again, this is part of the ENHANCED VACATION EXPERIENCE.  To drive everyone crazy. I was told the 48hours does not start until they can get everyone logged in. Lucky you while I sit and read of all the bookings I cant make....


----------



## paxsarah

scootr5 said:


> At least now they have a disclaimer up on the main page
> "*! New Features Status*
> Please keep in the mind *some of the new features and functionality may be temporarily unavailable *over the next few days as we continue to upgrade your online experience. We appreciate your patience and understanding."
> ​



Also, some of the old features and functionality.


----------



## vacationhopeful

I guess the "development team" will now get their programming contracts extended ... plus way bigger bonuses for working weekends & holidays thru the summer and Christmas holidays  ....  to fix the great job they have done so far.


----------



## Bigrob

ilya said:


> Again, this is part of the ENHANCED VACATION EXPERIENCE.  To drive everyone crazy. I was told the 48hours does not start until they can get everyone logged in. Lucky you while I sit and read of all the bookings I cant make....



Not sure this is true. I'm told some of my reservations have already been cancelled even though I don't even have access.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

SANDY - Great total analysis -especially # 5 SEARCHES .



Sandy VDH said:


> Note I am an IT Business Analyst (I am available for hire by the way), so this is my job.
> 
> He is my first cut at a summary of issues.
> 
> *Major show stopping problems* (and comments on possible redesign solutions for #5):
> 
> 5) Unusable search, especially if you are doing a flexible type search for last minute inventory, that is NOT date driven but is availability driven. (So many problems here I could rant for days.  But in additional to only being able to see 1 RESORT, 1 UNIT TYPE, 1 MONTH detailed availability, if you go to switch the unit type it changes the calendar BACK to today, so if you were looking in July you have to keep forwarding the calendar over and over each time you change the unit type.  So no Wyndham is just adding insult to injury on the search capabilities.  Could treat this as modify vs New Search and selecting new search will clear the calendar month you are currently viewing.)
> 
> 
> 6) Overwhelmed and Unresponsive VC and IT communities within Wyndham. How do you even get a ticket it to resolve a problem if the hold time is 2 hrs and they tell you to call back in a few days.
> 
> 
> 
> My commentary....
> 
> *Biggest and Longest Pain we will suffer*
> So once access and other major issues are resolved (points and people), #5 above is going to be MY vote for the WORST of these, as this is not going to change unless there is a design and coding change.
> 
> *Short Term Fix*
> My short term resolution is for Wyndham to temporarily put up the search function of the old system as a look up inventory only, but disable the booking function and make it 'display only" current inventory as pulled from whatever database the new system is pointing at.   I could at least live with that short term, while not ideal, but at least it is functional, until they get this shit show of a search USEFUL.  Look up available inventory in the old search and then enter the date in and date out you know have inventory in the search in the new system. Workable for me short term, but you have to do something.  It does not work to search when NO dates are provided.
> 
> *User Stories for Search types *(opportunistic vs focused, NOTE my terminology not Wyndham's)
> Whoever designed this system clearly has never considered doing a search for anything other than "I want to go to Orlando on November 7 to 14, show me All the available inventory for the date range I want."  OK, the new search they unveiled does that just fine.  However, that is not me, I want the search that is "I want to go to FL for a few days in the next 60 days, what inventory is available PERIOD.  I want to see what my VIP Benefits I can take advantage of during the Discount Period".  This is the exact thing that Discounts and Upgrades were intended to be used for, However they built a system that does not allow you do to that.   I do that kind of search 80% of the time, yet the search function as build is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE for that kind of search.  I am not concerned with Cancel and Rebook here, I am trying to use VIP Benefits are originally intended.  (Do you hear me Wyndham).



***********
SEARCHES

The Wyndham owned  RCI website TUG thread has similar complaints  .
Someone commented - it operates a lot like a hotel booking site - ie -"I  need a room in Boston from Sept 1-3 , 20xx for a conference  / show me hotels that are available

Sandy - your "example " search is how many TS owners in all systems & on RCI search . ( ie - what is in Florida in the next 60 days  / & is it interesting enough to book )

Wyndham - If a timeshare suite sits empty in the forest , and a tree falls on it , Did anyone see or hear it ?

Listen to YOUR customers - WE drive your " car "
and your map is crap - and no GPS .


----------



## vacationhopeful

The call in line is NOW announcing they are CLOSING EARLY on this coming FRIDAY at 6PM for an extended HOLIDAY WEEKEND.

They had their holiday for the last few years .... it should be all hands on deck to answer their phone lines and correct OUR Member Account info for the next 6+ months!


----------



## cayman01

Since Voyager has taken nearly seven years to come out it seems to me that at a some point Wyndham forgot about all the regular owners and tried to devise a system to hamper the Megarenters and bots as best as possible. They didn't realize they would screw everybody else up too. In time, and with enough feedback, Wyndham hopefully gets it right. 

I just feel a little bit sorry for the poor VC people. Those people are getting absolutely hammered by ticked off owners. They didn't create this beast but are facing the brunt of the frustration it is causing. i am guessing most of them are near or at the end of their patience. They have one nerve left and we are stepping on it ( as are many of us). Let's do each other a favor and play nice. 

And hit that feedback button that gets in the way all the time. Give Wyndham ideas on what we want as owners. Pretty sure Wyndham does NOT want 500,000 pissed off owners. Not good for sales. They will listen if enough of us tell them what we want.


----------



## ilya

Bigrob said:


> Not sure this is true. I'm told some of my reservations have already been cancelled even though I don't even have access.




Did you  get an email  stating your reservations have been cancelled. I do not have access but when a VG was helping this morning she could not cancel some of my reservations or put guest names . She told me they will not be automatically cancelled due to login issues. And the rule will not go into effect until everyone is able to do so..  She was able to cancel one and I did get an email stating so.

So, what is the real truth??


----------



## philb702

Obviously this is very fluid, earlier today GC was showing booked, now the availability came back.

Prior to this weekend's update, it was showing booked in all of June. Now, I was able to secure a 2BR for the 2nd weekend in June with no issue.


----------



## am1

I cannot add guest names over the phone at the 1-877 locked accounts number. Wanted to do so Thursday but left a message and no one got back to me. 

I am waiting for a call back once they are able to do it.


----------



## chapjim

Avislo said:


> Go to the reservations page, click select all, open a word processor, paste into the word processor, then delete extra spaces, leave a blank line between reservations.  Each reservation should fit on one line when done.  I would not think about how competent Wyndham is when doing this.  It would just raise your blood pressure.



You lost me at "select all."  I don't see anything like that on my Current Reservations page.  SHEESH!


----------



## Bigrob

ilya said:


> Did you  get an email  stating your reservations have been cancelled. I do not have access but when a VG was helping this morning she could not cancel some of my reservations or put guest names . She told me they will not be automatically cancelled due to login issues. And the rule will not go into effect until everyone is able to do so..  She was able to cancel one and I did get an email stating so.
> 
> So, what is the real truth??



The VC I was working with could find reservations in the old system that had been removed in the new system. She then said she was going to get owner care but hung up on me instead. I'm too frustrated after 2.5 hours to get one guest confirmation added to call back.


----------



## Bigrob

I wonder how much of the "new" inventory showing up that wasn't available prior to the "enhancement" is actually phantom inventory. It's going to be an interesting challenge if units are double-booked due to what appears to have been an incomplete load of the prior production data before go-live. I was told that "many" accounts have not been added yet. If that's the case I wonder if that's why there appears to be inventory. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some calls made to people who scooped up reservations to alert them that there actually is no availability for what they booked.


----------



## seascapemvy

I still can't log in.  Are they blocking everyone who is not a VIP?  This is crazy being told my account is not available when lots of others can log on.


----------



## vacationhopeful

I have a VIP ownership and can't get one of my accounts up & running. And I made sure before Wyndham went to the new system, to NOT have any overlapping reservation.

And I did book some stuff which was most likely cancelled by owners to avoid Wyndham zapping those reservations during the change over. And printed out copies of point status and reservations held.

It is going to be a very LONG SUMMER.


----------



## ilya

seascapemvy said:


> I still can't log in.  Are they blocking everyone who is not a VIP?  This is crazy being told my account is not available when lots of others can log on.


The should shut it down again until everyone has a fair shot at the upgrades and bookings.


----------



## ilya

Bigrob said:


> I wonder how much of the "new" inventory showing up that wasn't available prior to the "enhancement" is actually phantom inventory. It's going to be an interesting challenge if units are double-booked due to what appears to have been an incomplete load of the prior production data before go-live. I was told that "many" accounts have not been added yet. If that's the case I wonder if that's why there appears to be inventory. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some calls made to people who scooped up reservations to alert them that there actually is no availability for what they booked.



So, what do you think the problem is. Why our accounts are not available and VC cant add guests or cancel on our accounts


----------



## Sandy VDH

cayman01 said:


> And hit that feedback button that gets in the way all the time.



And Ironically, my feedback button on the side is not working. . HAHA


----------



## vacationhopeful

I have looked at my cell phone at least twice today ... asking myself "is tomorrow Saturday?". I feel like I have been running all week.


----------



## bendadin

ilya said:


> The should shut it down again until everyone has a fair shot at the upgrades and bookings.



I saw a banner that announced that the site would be unavailable at 6pm. I still can't log in so I would like to see a banner as to when the site will be AVAILABLE instead.


----------



## Sandy VDH

bendadin said:


> I saw a banner that announced that the site would be unavailable at 6pm. I still can't log in so I would like to see a banner as to when the site will be AVAILABLE instead.



Funny I looked for this banner but can't find it.  I logged out, and back still nothing.  I guess I could try to completely close Chrome and try again.


----------



## scootr5

Sandy VDH said:


> Funny I looked for this banner but can't find it.  I logged out, and back still nothing.  I guess I could try to completely close Chrome and try again.



I don't see any message like that either.



scootr5 said:


> I'm more concerned about the other person I don't know being listed as an owner on my account.



Well, it appears that they have at least fixed the mystery owner on my account - she's gone, and my wife is now listed.

I can also confirm that they have given "regular" owners their second free guest confirmation, as I had already used mine this year, and when I go in to the reservations it tells me I have "have at least 1 Guest Confirmation remaining". I wasn't sure if they would make those available now, or wait until January 1st when they are typically issued.


----------



## jhoug

Sandi Bo said:


> Me neither.  I had 2 existing logins setup (as suggested before the conversion).  I registered a 3rd last night. The registration portion worked but that login doesn't work either (once registered can't login).



I had 2 logins before the conversion too, but only one worked--the last one.  I think it did not recognize 2 separate users on one account,  although it changed the email and user for the 2nd user, it still had my name (the primary user) as the owner of the 2nd account and my first login and user name was nowhere to be found.  Figured this out when I put in retrieve user name for me--the first owner--and got the login/user name for the 2nd user.  When I logged in with this account, was able to change the user name back to me (the first owner) but not the email which is still my husband's.   So clearly, they did not figure out how to allow separate owners to access the same account #, at least pre-site migration. 
Now I'm afraid to try another, because I can at least get in with the 1 working login.


----------



## ecwinch

ilya said:


> I was told they locked some people out that were delinquent, and cancelled their reservations.



Maybe you misheard, and they really said "that were delinquents"...

I knew my past was going to catch up with me sometime....but never like this... a front row seat at the 9th circle of hell....


----------



## Ozlander

Goin' to be a looong hot summer.


----------



## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> I wonder how much of the "new" inventory showing up that wasn't available prior to the "enhancement" is actually phantom inventory. It's going to be an interesting challenge if units are double-booked due to what appears to have been an incomplete load of the prior production data before go-live. I was told that "many" accounts have not been added yet. If that's the case I wonder if that's why there appears to be inventory. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some calls made to people who scooped up reservations to alert them that there actually is no availability for what they booked.



There are going to be some disappointed owners when Wyndham starts  taking back the reservations made this past weekend


----------



## scootr5

Bigrob said:


> I wonder how much of the "new" inventory showing up that wasn't available prior to the "enhancement" is actually phantom inventory. It's going to be an interesting challenge if units are double-booked due to what appears to have been an incomplete load of the prior production data before go-live. I was told that "many" accounts have not been added yet. If that's the case I wonder if that's why there appears to be inventory. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some calls made to people who scooped up reservations to alert them that there actually is no availability for what they booked.





ronparise said:


> There are going to be some disappointed owners when Wyndham starts  taking back the reservations made this past weekend



Yes, that's my suspicion as well for a lot of this availability. I do think _some_ of it was related to the cancellations made before the planned downtime, but that does not explain all of it.

As with most things Wyndham IT related, they've made quite a cluster f*** of it. I don't know how you decide it's a good idea bringing the system back up if all of the data has not been migrated.


----------



## ronparise

ecwinch said:


> Maybe you misheard, and they really said "that were delinquents"...
> 
> I knew my past was going to catch up with me sometime....but never like this... a front row seat at the 9th circle of hell....


I think they have already identified us delinquents and are dealing with us .. you, me, Adam ?


----------



## Sandy VDH

In comparison, I had a similar roll out happen at HGVC earlier this year.  They transitioned websites.  They introduced some rules, but there were MORE relaxed than previous rules.  

The put the new site up, ran it side by side of a period of time, then they pulled the original site.  When they first rolled out the new site, they did say that the search function was lacking what we currently had available, but they were working on it and an updated search would be out in a month or so.  Guess what, the new upgraded search was released and worked fine too.

Everything went as Planned.  Can you imagine that. They merged my two accounts into 1.  All my reservations and points were in tact.  Not a single issue.  

Now contrast this to the Wyndham rollout fiasco.


----------



## dagger1

Bigrob said:


> I wonder how much of the "new" inventory showing up that wasn't available prior to the "enhancement" is actually phantom inventory. It's going to be an interesting challenge if units are double-booked due to what appears to have been an incomplete load of the prior production data before go-live. I was told that "many" accounts have not been added yet. If that's the case I wonder if that's why there appears to be inventory. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some calls made to people who scooped up reservations to alert them that there actually is no availability for what they booked.


I still can't login, probably won't try again until tomorrow.  But when I talked to a VC about my login issue this morning, she confirmed all of my (many) reservations.  So, at least in my case, the reservation part seems correct.  I just can't see it!


----------



## Braindead

ronparise said:


> I think they have already identified us delinquents and are dealing with us .. you, me, Adam ?


Sign me up but you knew I was before this fiasco!!


----------



## philb702

scootr5 said:


> Yes, that's my suspicion as well for a lot of this availability. I do think _some_ of it was related to the cancellations made before the planned downtime, but that does not explain all of it.
> 
> As with most things Wyndham IT related, they've made quite a cluster f*** of it. I don't know how you decide it's a good idea bringing the system back up if all of the data has not been migrated.



You could be right. That being said, from what I can tell the major renters at GC haven't had their "inventory" changed. I received an email today from one who advertises she has 5-6 reservations per time period (i.e. 6 2BR's 6/9-6/11). Is it possible those extra reservations of hers have been cancelled? What was interesting is she even mentions this change in her email and that she will have to charge more because she won't be able to cancel/rebook. I'm not sure the average person on her list will understand that. 

I'll let you know if the two reservations I made today get cancelled..


----------



## scootr5

I received that email as well.


----------



## Avislo

chapjim said:


> You lost me at "select all."  I don't see anything like that on my Current Reservations page.  SHEESH!



Go to the reservations page.  Scroll down a little bit till the screen just shows some reservations.  Right click on the mouse click on select all and go from their.


----------



## vacationhopeful

It is amazing ... Wyndham thinks of themselves as a TOP TIER company and this roll out is going to be a CASE STUDY in "What NOT to do when migrating to a new Customer Service Online System."

They are trying to do, TOO MUCH. With TOO LITTLE testing. With a "nonconforming and CLEAN" customer data base.

They could have run a 'sniffer' program and required owners to alter NON-CONFORMING Userids to what they wanted/needed for the NEW SYSTEM (or simply added 'fixed' adaption to migrate to the new system). Instead, I can't get to my 2nd Member number but the 2 Member Numbers where NOT COMBINED. Keeps telling me I already have an account (I think it is tied to my email address which I can't change now in the OLD DEAD system).

The Call Center ... that is in one sorry state of affairs ... that is the best description for call center. Is it you don't have the desk/terminal space? Or the staff? Or the phone lines? Or the access to the mainframe? Or is it your budget?

So, I can't get online. Can't get anyone on the phone. And I am NOT FROZEN .... at least, I think I am not frozen.

What will come next? I know ....

My June Maintenance fees .. for both Member Numbers.


----------



## uscav8r

chapjim said:


> We had a guy named Leroy on our account for years.  Finally got him removed.  Should have left him there -- he wasn't bothering anything!



Leeroy Jenkins lives!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## topcop400

I tried to make a reservation on the new site, but it told me I didn’t have enough points.  I do, but they are in the credit pool-- which is not visible. 


So I called, but the recording said the wait was in excess of 60 minutes.  Yikes.


----------



## bendadin

Sandy VDH said:


> Funny I looked for this banner but can't find it.  I logged out, and back still nothing.  I guess I could try to completely close Chrome and try again.



The My ClubWyndham went back to the old login screen. So when I clicked into that page, the banner was at the top. It still didn't let me in, but at least I had banner.


----------



## scootr5

bendadin said:


> The My ClubWyndham went back to the old login screen. So when I clicked into that page, the banner was at the top. It still didn't let me in, but at least I had banner.



I'm thinking maybe you got a cached version of the page  from the weekend stored locally on your computer, and the browser never actually checked for new content.


----------



## Cxt333

dansyr2514 said:


> I just tried to book a room at a resort we have ARP in myrtle beach.  It is showing no availability for the entire year.


I'm having the same thing for Daytona.  I doubt  it's all sold out . All the dates out 12- 13 months out


----------



## dansyr2514

Cxt333 said:


> I'm having the same thing for Daytona.  I doubt  it's all sold out . All the dates out 12- 13 months out


Yes -  nothing available from now all the way through as far as I can search for next year .   Tried calling tonight but the wait was in excess of 60 minutes which I was determined to wait out but after 90 minutes I gave up .


----------



## Kozman

I was able to log on and see my reservations. Where do you 'look' for upgrades? The old site had a link to click on to check. This one does not.


----------



## WhiskeyJack

Kozman said:


> I was able to log on and see my reservations.



Were you able to log on previously?  I have been getting the "Your account is unavailable at this time." since Saturday and still no luck trying to sign in.  Just wondering if anybody that was getting this error message previously can now sign on or if all are like me and still trying?  Thanks


----------



## Jan M.

I haven't been able to log in since last Thursday. Am so glad I took screen shots of my point status on both the old and the new websites and my reservations too at that time!

Called late this afternoon and was only on hold for about 35 minutes but we are presidential reserve so I call a separate number. Was told there are a lot of people unable to access their accounts and that I should be able to get into my account this evening. It is now just a few minutes before 8pm, I still can't access my account and have no expectation that I will be able to any time soon.

I heard from a friend who had two reservations disappear from his account during the migration to the new system this weekend. He said he spent two hours on the phone today and neither a VC nor a supervisor after investigating it were able to correct it. I'm guessing that the inventory that OP picked up over the weekend and today is probably from reservations that were lost in the migration. It will be very interesting to see how Wyndham handles this. Will the people who booked those lost reservations be allowed to keep them? Will the reservations be restored to the people who originally had them?

While my friend was on the phone he was also told that his account was short 100,000 points from what it should be.

None of us had high expectations going into this change over and some people even said that they thought the system wouldn't be functional until Friday. Now not only does Wyndham have to get this new system functioning, they also have to correct all the incorrect data that was entered into the new system and the problems that have ensued over the weekend and today. Hope they are paying hardship pay this week to all the VCs and supervisors who have to take calls from all the unhappy to extremely po'd owners.


----------



## jberndt10

WhiskeyJack said:


> Were you able to log on previously?  I have been getting the "Your account is unavailable at this time." since Saturday and still no luck trying to sign in.  Just wondering if anybody that was getting this error message previously can now sign on or if all are like me and still trying?  Thanks


Still getting that message as well, and customer service number recording states the number is not available in my area, what????


----------



## Avislo

Kozman said:


> I was able to log on and see my reservations. Where do you 'look' for upgrades? The old site had a link to click on to check. This one does not.



To the extent I have seen on the upgrade issue, it appears in the booking process where you would need to select the automatic upgrade option.  I have not seen anything that even remotely resembles the old site system.


----------



## MaryBella7

WhiskeyJack said:


> Were you able to log on previously?  I have been getting the "Your account is unavailable at this time." since Saturday and still no luck trying to sign in.  Just wondering if anybody that was getting this error message previously can now sign on or if all are like me and still trying?  Thanks



Still account not available here.


----------



## whitewater

account working
points status not working/showing
site appears to be faster for me compared to last night.

account is full resale & all CWA.  When I tried to book remaining points match.  No credit pool points showing as of yet.  

As others have stated site is a bit clunky & search is difficult to use compared to others.


----------



## ilya

WhiskeyJack said:


> Were you able to log on previously?  I have been getting the "Your account is unavailable at this time." since Saturday and still no luck trying to sign in.  Just wondering if anybody that was getting this error message previously can now sign on or if all are like me and still trying?  Thanks


able to login Saturday but not yesterday and today. Same message..


----------



## bendadin

ilya said:


> able to login Saturday but not yesterday and today. Same message..



I was able to log in on Saturday but not since.


----------



## bendadin

I took a look at the preview site and there is a new banner: 

System Updates for Your Website
We appreciate your patience as we continue to upgrade your online experience. Your owner website will be unavailable starting at midnight ET and we’ll be back later.

I can't get in no matter where I look.


----------



## bendadin

I took a look at the preview site and there is a new banner: 

System Updates for Your Website
We appreciate your patience as we continue to upgrade your online experience. Your owner website will be unavailable starting at midnight ET and we’ll be back later.

I can't get in no matter where I look.


----------



## bendadin

I took a look at the preview site and there is a new banner: 

System Updates for Your Website
We appreciate your patience as we continue to upgrade your online experience. Your owner website will be unavailable starting at midnight ET and we’ll be back later.

I can't get in no matter where I look.


----------



## happyhopian

Zeke_62 said:


> The auto upgrade did not work for me.  I had auto upgrade on a reservation.   Cancelled the larger unit.  The larger unit returned to inventory where fortunately another 1br existed and I was able to book with upgrade.  Then cancelled the first 1br.


Zeke no one here has seen where one would manually upgrade as you did the 1br. Can you explain where in the new reservation system you did this so we can learn hot to do this like it use to be done but on the new site.


----------



## rubbub

I had set up two accounts on the preview site and was able to log in with both prior to the migration. I have not gotten anything other than "Your account is unavailable at this time" on either account post-migration. I started trying last night when others reported getting in and have tried every few hours or so throughout the day today.


----------



## Braindead

ilya said:


> able to login Saturday but not yesterday and today. Same message..


Same thing here. Did receive email stating our address had successfully been updated this afternoon. I don't know by who because we can't log in and never requested that it be changed


----------



## Zeke_62

happyhopian said:


> Zeke no one here has seen where one would manually upgrade as you did the 1br. Can you explain where in the new reservation system you did this so we can learn hot to do this like it use to be done but on the new site.


I think my terminology was confusing.  What I was referring to was upgrading as I booked the 1br.  As compared to trying to upgrade a smaller unit that was already booked - which is what did not work.  Today I noticed that "mobility" have new logic to them.  I saw a mobility 1br will upgrade to a mobility 2LO, but a standard 1br shows no available upgrade.


----------



## Braindead

I just love the current banner to be patient while they update our online experience. WHAT EXPERIENCE some of us have none.

Unbelievable they keep the site up with all the problems. Like Linda said it might be down till Friday. It should have been down till this Friday

Pretty dam disheartening for those of us that cannot get in to look at our accounts


----------



## buckor

bendadin said:


> I took a look at the preview site and there is a new banner:
> 
> System Updates for Your Website
> We appreciate your patience as we continue to upgrade your online experience. Your owner website will be unavailable starting at midnight ET and we’ll be back later.
> 
> I can't get in no matter where I look.


I still can't get in...so the new banner means absolutely nothing to me. As far as I'm concerned the site has been down all day!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandy VDH

Zeke_62 said:


> View attachment 3943



Here is a perfect example where font size has exploded.  The text on the upgrade is enormous.


----------



## Sandy VDH

As they warned us a bit earlier today the 24/7 website will be closed down at 12 ET.  I was in the middle of looking/booking and there is NO warning notice like in the old system.


----------



## am1

After 9 months I can add guest confirmations online.  Did a bunch tonight but it was much slower then on the previous site. Only could add them to my default member number but not the others.  Site is down now so will have to try again in the morning.  Saved $600 doing in online then over the phone.  It has been a long 9 months.


----------



## jumoe

"Cutesy" is going to get old fast.

*Oops, we have to repack!*
As soon as we’re sure we’ve got everything ready, we’ll be back to get you on vacation.


----------



## seascapemvy

jumoe said:


> "Cutesy" is going to get old fast.
> 
> *Oops, we have to repack!*
> As soon as we’re sure we’ve got everything ready, we’ll be back to get you on vacation.


I just got the same message at 6:40 AM.   So much for midnight.


----------



## ilya

Looks like even though I am not able to login I have made reservations  according to the recent email. The problem is this reservation was made a week ago upgraded and with a guest. Now it states a studio , no guest and no upgrade, same conf. number.. Now what? How will they handle guest arriving with a guest certificate but no room???


----------



## happyhopian

I the good news is that there will be LOTS of upgrades available because none of the 'regular' owners are ever going to figure all of this out! I say we get a good year of huge availability. People are frustrated by the droves and while I feel for them it will simply take a lot of time investment to figure this out. Something many of us on Tugg can and will do but how many others are going to spend 5 much less 20 hours a week trying to figure this out.


----------



## ilya

happyhopian said:


> I the good news is that there will be LOTS of upgrades available because none of the 'regular' owners are ever going to figure all of this out! I say we get a good year of huge availability. People are frustrated by the droves and while I feel for them it will simply take a lot of time investment to figure this out. Something many of us on Tugg can and will do but how many others are going to spend 5 much less 20 hours a week trying to figure this out.




Are you able to get in today?


----------



## Avislo

If some people are having problems with credit pool points showing, it would be a good idea to start converting them to reservations.  In my case, using credit pool points is working.  Better than betting on where the credit pool issue is going at this point.  

Suggestions:

1.  For those that are showing, use them.

2.  For those that are not showing, attempt books anyway, I am thinking they will probably take because it is not a matter of their not being there, they are just not showing for some reason.

As of a few minutes ago, I could not get into the new site.  It appears to still be down.


----------



## dagger1

ilya said:


> Are you able to get in today?


All I get is they are "repacking"....


----------



## wjappraise

dagger1 said:


> All I get is they are "repacking"....



I wish the current management team, IT department, and Owner (doesn't) Care team were packing .... to leave.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Avislo

8:00 a.m. is almost here.  Remember 8:00 a.m. sharp is the magic time to be on the line, if they are answering the phone.


----------



## happyhopian

Another inside point - there is nothing positive about 'repacking' anyone who has to 'repack' means they screwed up the first time they packed. Clearly that is the case here because they forgot to pack credit pool points into the new system


----------



## ilya

wjappraise said:


> I wish the current management team, IT department, and Owner (doesn't) Care team were packing .... to leave.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




They are, for preschool to play "Ring around the Rosie ashes ashes  we all fall down". PATHETIC ROLLOUT>


----------



## nicemann

happyhopian said:


> Another inside point - there is nothing positive about 'repacking' anyone who has to 'repack' means they screwed up the first time they packed. Clearly that is the case here because they forgot to pack credit pool points into the new system



Funny I was wondering also why they would use the term "repacking".  It was showing my Credit Pool points on Sunday.  I did not get a chance to check yesterday.  Hopefully when it comes back up it is still in my account.


----------



## Avislo

Wyndham number is answering.  Options 3 than 2.  They can give you your available points and I cancelled a reservation.  They expect the site to be up sometime today and said just keep checking back.  There was not significant wait.  

For people with access that want reservations, this would be the time to call.


----------



## nicemann

Well I can get in the website now....the points tab is gone under my ownership now.  Go figure.


----------



## Sandi Bo

Avislo said:


> Wyndham number is answering.  Options 3 than 2.  They can give you your available points and I cancelled a reservation.  They expect the site to be up sometime today and said just keep checking back.  There was not significant wait.
> 
> For people with access that want reservations, this would be the time to call.



Looks like they are done repacking. 

However, I still get 'your account is unavailable at this time'.


----------



## wjappraise

When I got in yesterday, I found four of my Thanksgiving reservations at Bonnet Creek were missing, with another one showing twice (same co-owner name, and same confirmation number).  I logged in several times during the day and found the same results.  The reservations I had that are now missing were for 3 bedroom Presidential reserve units (the units some other Tuggers have been excited to find and book!!).  I actually saw one available and tried to book it, but the system told me I did not have enough points to book, which is a double whammy, because if they cancelled my reservations I should have points available to use. 

So, I am hoping that the print outs of the reservations I made with my PR points for our big Thanksgiving trip will be sufficient to get my rooms back, but my confidence in the ability and willingness of Wyndham is at an all time low right now.  Why would the insist on pushing out an entirely new platform on the heels of a 3 day glitch that resulted unplanned shutdown of the website?  At what point do "owners" rise up and hit Wyndham with a class action suit? 

I am on the phone right now, on hold.  I plan to ask the VC to record my call, because I want action.  I sure sound tough, don't I?  At the end of it all, what are our options?  My ownership has devalued so much due to Wyndham's efforts to limit the perks of Platinum users like myself, coupled with the incompetence of their reservation system.


----------



## MaryBella7

Sandi Bo said:


> Looks like they are done repacking.
> 
> However, I still get 'your account is unavailable at this time'.



Ditto


----------



## Sandi Bo

lhumes7 said:


> Ditto



So... I registered a FIFTH new login.  For someone who is the only person on a developer purchased contract. Got a confirmation email (that's a first).   However, still get the 'your account is unavailable at this time' message.   I sure can't figure out why I can't login /  what the magic formula is.

My account has both developer and resale.


----------



## Sandi Bo

wjappraise said:


> When I got in yesterday, I found four of my Thanksgiving reservations at Bonnet Creek were missing, with another one showing twice (same co-owner name, and same confirmation number).  I logged in several times during the day and found the same results.  The reservations I had that are now missing were for 3 bedroom Presidential reserve units (the units some other Tuggers have been excited to find and book!!).  I actually saw one available and tried to book it, but the system told me I did not have enough points to book, which is a double whammy, because if they cancelled my reservations I should have points available to use.
> 
> So, I am hoping that the print outs of the reservations I made with my PR points for our big Thanksgiving trip will be sufficient to get my rooms back, but my confidence in the ability and willingness of Wyndham is at an all time low right now.  Why would the insist on pushing out an entirely new platform on the heels of a 3 day glitch that resulted unplanned shutdown of the website?  At what point do "owners" rise up and hit Wyndham with a class action suit?
> 
> I am on the phone right now, on hold.  I plan to ask the VC to record my call, because I want action.  I sure sound tough, don't I?  At the end of it all, what are our options?  My ownership has devalued so much due to Wyndham's efforts to limit the perks of Platinum users like myself, coupled with the incompetence of their reservation system.



Well they CAN take rooms back from others if they erroneously gave them to someone else.  Don't let them say they can't.   I've been on the take-away side of that before (due to VC error cancelling someone's reservation).


----------



## am1

Sandi Bo said:


> Well they CAN take rooms back from others if they erroneously gave them to someone else.  Don't let them say they can't.   I've been on the take-away side of that before (due to VC error cancelling someone's reservation).



I have been on the other side and Wyndham say we will check availability to see what we can do. Of course nothing is available as if it were I would have booked it.  

Never outright have been asked to give a room back as it was someone elses.


----------



## Sandi Bo

am1 said:


> I have been on the other side and Wyndham say we will check availability to see what we can do. Of course nothing is available as if it were I would have booked it.
> 
> Never outright have been asked to give a room back as it was someone elses.



I have been there, too, (where they would not correct their error).  Pretty much want to laugh out loud when they say they have a special department that will keep checking for me to see if it comes available.  Like a 3BR Pres Thanksgiving week is going to come available?

But they did take a room back from me that I had picked up last minute (just cause I couldn't believe it was there) - Myrtle beach in the summer.   Wonder who they did that for?


----------



## wjappraise

Sandi Bo said:


> But they did take a room back from me that I had picked up last minute (just cause I couldn't believe it was there) - Myrtle beach in the summer.   Wonder who they did that for?



Wasn't me!  Maybe COSkier.  He seems to applaud the new guidelines.  Wonder how he would feel if some of his prime reservations were missing.


----------



## Sandy VDH

ilya said:


> Looks like even though I am not able to login I have made reservations  according to the recent email. The problem is this reservation was made a week ago upgraded and with a guest. Now it states a studio , no guest and no upgrade, same conf. number.. Now what? How will they handle guest arriving with a guest certificate but no room???



This happened to me, but upon review it is just the fancy follow up email version of reservations I make in the last days of the old system.  I think the batch job finally got run, and those confirmations emails were generated.


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> Another inside point - there is nothing positive about 'repacking' anyone who has to 'repack' means they screwed up the first time they packed. Clearly that is the case here because they forgot to pack credit pool points into the new system



My credit pool points are they, although I can only confirm this when I try to make a booking and I see my available points. Why is that, Oh yeah, they have no points page displaying. DUH


----------



## wed100105

I am getting emails from reservations I already had guest confirmations on as well. When I log in though, they are all correct on the "my reservations" screen. For some of you getting those emails, I think they are erroneous, but the reservations should still be intact.

For the three bedroom presidential reserve units over Thanksgiving cancelled, did you have separate names on those reservations?  I'm wondering if they cancelled due to the new overlapping reservation rule.


----------



## Jan M.

Now starting day 5 without access to our account.


----------



## Braindead

Account unavailable for me.


----------



## ilya

Jan M. said:


> Now starting day 5 without access to our account.



They told me to check back in a few days. They are essentially auditing to make sure everything transferred ok.. HMM Gave no sorrow for me not being able to make spring vacations.


----------



## Avislo

From another thread "On hold with , well they just hung up on me, but they did say accounts are being audited before they allow access. can not add, change, select upgrade. Completely locked out because I have a large account. 1 mill points??? that's peanuts compared to others who were able to book over the last 2 days."

It appears, at least, Wyndham is getting more cooperative in giving answers.  My guess, this week is going to be days renters will have a lot of choices for good to great reservations from people who have passed the "audit phase".  If the information provided to the poster is accurate, the current situation could go on for awhile as the audit process continues.


----------



## CruiseGuy

I'm still getting "Your account is unavailable at this time."  I'd at least like to see if any of my ownership, available points, or reservations were impacted.  I don't really need to make reservations or update anything right now.


----------



## asreiter

Braindead said:


> Account unavailable for me.



Same for me


----------



## vacationhopeful

I wonder if the "Certified Check is in the mail" will work for them, like their call in center is "working" for us.


----------



## wjappraise

wed100105 said:


> For the three bedroom presidential reserve units over Thanksgiving cancelled, did you have separate names on those reservations?  I'm wondering if they cancelled due to the new overlapping reservation rule.



Yes each one has a unique co owner name.  And I have the screen shots.  

As a side note the overlapping reservation rule sanctions are to go into effect 48 hours after the successful roll out of the new website. I doubt any sane person could say the rollout is successful yet.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Braindead

Avislo said:


> From another thread "On hold with , well they just hung up on me, but they did say accounts are being audited before they allow access. can not add, change, select upgrade. Completely locked out because I have a large account. 1 mill points??? that's peanuts compared to others who were able to book over the last 2 days."
> 
> It appears, at least, Wyndham is getting more cooperative in giving answers.  My guess, this week is going to be days renters will have a lot of choices for good to great reservations from people who have passed the "audit phase".  If the information provided to the poster is accurate, the current situation could go on for awhile as the audit process continues.


Wyndham is MORE COOPERATIVE in giving answers. GET SERIOUS ! YOU ARE CLUELESS!! None of us have received emails regarding any audit. A couple of us were able to get in briefly Saturday. I wasn't in long enough to see much before they took the system offline.

If they are auditing accounts for accuracy before they allow access. Why are owners finding all the errors?

If one is to believe your posts. You have done more with your account since the system came live than some of us have done in the past year. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOUR REACTION IF YOUR LOCKED OUT FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AND NO INFORMATION AS TO WHY.


----------



## scootr5

wjappraise said:


> I doubt any sane person could say the rollout is successful yet.



Well, this _is_ Wyndham we're talking about...


----------



## Braindead

wjappraise said:


> Yes each one has a unique co owner name.  And I have the screen shots.
> 
> As a side note the overlapping reservation rule sanctions are to go into effect 48 hours after the successful roll out of the new website. I doubt any sane person could say the rollout is successful yet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You did say the new system will be live come hell or high water. Your prediction was the best. Wish you were wrong but you were dead on ! Hope my memory was right on who predicted this.  I'll stop there because I can't even come up with proper wording to describe what is going on.

THIS IS THE MOST UNFAIR ADVANTAGE for some you could imagine. WYNDHAM GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR --- !!!!!!
NO OWNER IS TO BLAME! Hope I didn't need to ad that.


----------



## nkldavy

The 48 hour period is up (I was just told) at 8 am tomorrow.   I was on hold for an hour on VIP line.   Hold time for non-VIP as almost 2 hours.  VCs have a chat line to ask questions which the VC I had asked about the 48 hour period.   Tomorrow at 8 am EDT was the response she received.  Others may want to keep asking to see if they move that back.  Uncle Davey


----------



## Bigrob

Was on hold over an hour. Finally get through, she is going to check with another department - never even got to the real reason for my call - and disconnected me. Second time in 2 days that has happened. This is ridiculous.


----------



## Bigrob

nkldavy said:


> The 48 hour period is up (I was just told) at 8 am tomorrow.   I was on hold for an hour on VIP line.   Hold time for non-VIP as almost 2 hours.  VCs have a chat line to ask questions which the VC I had asked about the 48 hour period.   Tomorrow at 8 am EDT was the response she received.  Others may want to keep asking to see if they move that back.  Uncle Davey



That is not possible, as I have not had access yet. I am not alone in that either. I can't fix what I can't get to... I don't even know if I have anything to fix. Each reservation had a unique owner name when I booked them, but some of the owner names (from what I could tell calling in) were changed, and they are apparently looking across members numbers as well. What a mess.


----------



## cayman01

I for one have had no problems logging in and all my info is correct.  I guess I am one of the lucky ones. Not VIP, but am PR. Million and a half points and around 10 current reservations. All reservations are for us. No GC's. A fairly simple account I think. Those of you with more complex accounts ,whether you are a megarenter or not, seem to be the ones with the problems. Looks like Wyndham is going thru those accounts one by one to make sure everything matches from old system to new. And they don't seem to have enough people doing. And they aren't doing a good job to boot (wrong names, points , reservations lost, etc.)This is only speculation on my part . I was hoping for a smooth transition, but predicted the worst and it looks like the worst has happened. I wonder how many of us would give Wyndham a thumbs up now or recommendation to a friend? I believe I hear crickets chirping. I think they are chirping over on eBay and every other Wyndham reseller now too.....


----------



## dagger1

ilya said:


> They told me to check back in a few days. They are essentially auditing to make sure everything transferred ok.. HMM Gave no sorrow for me not being able to make spring vacations.


Hopefully this audit won't take the 6-8 months others have experienced (or are still experiencing)...


----------



## Braindead

Bigrob said:


> That is not possible, as I have not had access yet. I am not alone in that either. I can't fix what I can't get to... I don't even know if I have anything to fix. Each reservation had a unique owner name when I booked them, but some of the owner names (from what I could tell calling in) were changed, and they are apparently looking across members numbers as well. What a mess.


Agree. But Wyndham will say we all had equal access because the call center has been open


----------



## staceyeileen

cayman01 said:


> I for one have had no problems logging in and all my info is correct.  I guess I am one of the lucky ones. Not VIP, but am PR. Million and a half points and around 10 current reservations. All reservations are for us. No GC's. A fairly simple account I think. Those of you with more complex accounts ,whether you are a megarenter or not, seem to be the ones with the problems.



I have under 250k points, 3 resale contracts, and only 1 pending reservation in my name.  And my account is STILL "Unavailable at this time" !


----------



## WhiskeyJack

ilya said:


> They told me to check back in a few days. They are essentially auditing to make sure everything transferred ok.. HMM Gave no sorrow for me not being able to make spring vacations.



Just got off the phone after 100 minutes.  Thankfully they did not hang up on me.  Have been getting the account unavailable at this time message.  I was told essentially this same thing although instead of an audit my VC said that their system was not able to move all owners account information over to the new system by the time new system opened up.  IT resources were not great enough to migrate all owners accounts by Monday morning.  Thus those getting the unavailable account message are owners that fell to the "back of the line" in migrating over to the new system.  VC said should not be more than another 24 hours until all owners are finally migrated.  Not holding my breath on that comment.


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> Wyndham is MORE COOPERATIVE in giving answers. GET SERIOUS ! YOU ARE CLUELESS!! None of us have received emails regarding any audit. A couple of us were able to get in briefly Saturday. I wasn't in long enough to see much before they took the system offline.
> 
> If they are auditing accounts for accuracy before they allow access. Why are owners finding all the errors?
> 
> If one is to believe your posts. You have done more with your account since the system came live than some of us have done in the past year. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOUR REACTION IF YOUR LOCKED OUT FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AND NO INFORMATION AS TO WHY.




I was told that this morning. Maybe they were giving me an excuse but they did tell me my account that read "not available" was because I have 1 mill points and they want to make sure everything gets transferred correctly.  In other words they want to take this opportunity to audit another set of accounts.


----------



## ilya

staceyeileen said:


> I have under 250k points, 3 resale contracts, and only 1 pending reservation in my name.  And my account is STILL "Unavailable at this time" !



Did you recently purchase a re-sale?


----------



## Sandy VDH

Has any one tried to verify what is happening when you make a reservation that starts at the 60 day window. 

There is a warning message that they are working on fixing the VIP discount and to ensure that you get it correctly, make your reservation so that the CHECK OUT day in included in the 60 day window.  Yet when I book the reservation what i am presented shows the discount for the entire stay.  But since NO one can see their point balances, I CAN'T VERIFY if there is a difference between what the reservation page is showing and what really happened.  So which is correct? the warning or the reservation confirmation INFO.  My guess is the warning.  But has anyone actually verified this. 

I also noticed that yesterday on the booking window you used to see your point value available just prior to completing the booking.  But they also pulled that field as well. 

So NOW there is NO way, anywhere, to see what your point values are.   Got me to thinking that on top of everything else POINT values are really FUBAR, why else remove any information pertaining to points from the newly rolled out website.  They don't want us to see what has happened, or we all suddenly got a big points bonanza, and they figure that not showing will stop us from booking everything available up.  OK I am speculating on that last bit, but I find it odd that they removed ANY and ALL places to check your available point balance.


----------



## MaryBella7

Sandy VDH said:


> Got me to thinking that on top of everything else POINT values are really FUBAR, why else remove any information pertaining to points from the newly rolled out website.  They don't want us to see what has happened, or we all suddenly got a big points bonanza, and they figure that not showing will stop us from booking everything available up.  OK I am speculating on that last bit, but I find it odd that they removed ANY and ALL places to check your available point balance.



When I got on briefly Saturday, it said I had over 300,000 points expiring June 30th.  I know that I did not, and I did not try to book anything to use those points because I knew they would just be taken back again (as they really should be).  I still can't get into my account. Wonder if that has something to do with it.


----------



## Braindead

ilya said:


> I was told that this morning. Maybe they were giving me an excuse but they did tell me my account that read "not available" was because I have 1 mill points and they want to make sure everything gets transferred correctly.  In other words they want to take this opportunity to audit another set of accounts.


The answer I got was laughable! 
Everyone is just so excited to log on and check the new site out. Causing the website to simply be overwhelmed.


----------



## Bigrob

Yes. Excitement is exactly the word I was searching for.

When I'm on hold for over an hour, I really like the message telling me I really ought to try registering and logging into the website instead. And the stupid cutesy dialogue regarding a "girls weekend" has become so annoying it's like fingernails on a chalkboard.


----------



## wed100105

Bigrob said:


> Yes. Excitement is exactly the word I was searching for.
> 
> When I'm on hold for over an hour, I really like the message telling me I really ought to try registering and logging into the website instead. And the stupid cutesy dialogue regarding a "girls weekend" has become so annoying it's like fingernails on a chalkboard.




Right?! I so badly want to tell that  girls' weekend girl to stop mooching and get your own damn ownership!


----------



## Braindead

WhiskeyJack said:


> Just got off the phone after 100 minutes.  Thankfully they did not hang up on me.  Have been getting the account unavailable at this time message.  I was told essentially this same thing although instead of an audit my VC said that their system was not able to move all owners account information over to the new system by the time new system opened up.  IT resources were not great enough to migrate all owners accounts by Monday morning.  Thus those getting the unavailable account message are owners that fell to the "back of the line" in migrating over to the new system.  VC said should not be more than another 24 hours until all owners are finally migrated.  Not holding my breath on that comment.


None of these excuses- answers are valid. I was able to get in Saturday. My reservations were right. My credit pool points were right. That's about all I had time to look at.
My account did migrate. The system if anything is in reverse gear. Owners reporting no point information when it's been there before. My account looked right Saturday but I have no idea what it looks like now. VCs see our information so it did migrate. I have no GCs either


----------



## Sandy VDH

Sandy VDH said:


> Has any one tried to verify what is happening when you make a reservation that starts at EXACTLY the 60 day window.
> 
> There is a warning message that they are working on fixing the VIP discount and to ensure that you get it correctly, make your reservation so that the CHECK OUT day in included in the 60 day window.  Yet when I book the reservation what i am presented shows the discount for the entire stay.  But since NO one can see their point balances, I CAN'T VERIFY if there is a difference between what the reservation page is showing and what really happened.  So which is correct? the warning or the reservation confirmation INFO.  My guess is the warning.  But has anyone actually verified this.



I was wrong with my guess. I called and confirmed my available balance, surprisingly which matches what I expect if the booking is calculated with the full discount over the entire booking.  So that makes the splash warning message as incorrect, and the calculated point value for the transaction correct.  

Great, now Wyndham gives warnings that are also an error.  That is just too funny.


----------



## Vacationfuntips

I'm on the new website again.
Like others have mentioned, there is no point status displayed anywhere. This feature was removed.

I have spent hours trying my best to learn how to use the website.  It is very, very frustrating for me to navigate.
In the past, when you would search for availability - the online system would show you ALL the room types available for your search dates.  I don't mind that it is specific with the information of the room type, but I don't have time to check EACH type of room for the same or different dates and attempt to figure out what is available for booking?  This is NOT NEEDED.  
Wyndham SHOW ME EVERYTHING AVAILABLE at the SAME time on the SAME SCREEN and I will decide what I want to book.  I like easy and simple.  
I like to be informed, and easy and simple works much better.

Cynthia T.


----------



## staceyeileen

ilya said:


> Did you recently purchase a re-sale?



No, no purchases in probably 3-4 years.


----------



## Braindead

OC rep said. Let me see if I can login to your account. Answer yes I can login to your account. Just give it a little more time. That was yesterday about 5 ET.  She confirmed my account migrated, no comment on any other problems. Other than all the excitement comment I posted


----------



## BellaWyn

Well, my turn to have the delightful privilege of doing the hour+ perma-hold with WYN this morning.  Then another 30 minutes with a boxed-in drone VC that is pre-programmed with explanations the defy logic.

Can actually log in and navigate but have reservations that have gone on a walkabout.  Resorts still have the reservations [called them first].  The inane excuse I got for the missing reservations is that they are *"still downloading"* and will* "probably" *show up in the next 24 hours.  The excuse itself is so insanely ridiculous it was met by an nearly involuntary guffaw!  Sadly however, many owners would actually believe that as viable excuse.

Oh and there was also an attempt to convince me that "*most owners are actually enjoying the new website because there is more availability*."

Asked him if that included the owners that are locked out and still not able to get into their accounts.  And OBTW, have you *read* the online complaints that are piling up? Seriously, don't try to convince me of that action dude. 

Added to that joyride is the fact that I have* two* reservations now in the account that have the same resort, same date, same unit size and SAME Confirmation Number on both reservations.  Before the migration there was only one.  How does that happen?  More mysteries to solve because I don't have anything else to do with my time today except track down what WYN cannot [snark intended].


----------



## MaryBella7

Glad I didn't wait hours on hold for this helpful info:


----------



## Avislo

On missing reservations, that was a great idea to check with the Resort to see if yours was still there.


----------



## littlestar

I spoke to a rep after an hour hold and tried to buy some extra points for an exchange in RCI that I am short points on. The rep could not do it. She said I should be able to rent the extra points online to deposit into RCI once the system comes back up. I said I could not do that before the new site launch and she said I will with the new system. I managed to log in to the new site and try it, but it stops short of doing this and then gives a message about the member number being in the process of a transaction.


----------



## Pietin

Ok so out on the new site, I was able to pull up, book and cancel reservation at 13 months for resorts I don't own or have APR for.  I don't have CWA and all contracts resale.  This is an interesting trip.


----------



## 55plus

Pietin said:


> Ok so out on the new site, I was able to pull up, book and cancel reservation at 13 months for resorts I don't own or have APR for.  I don't have CWA and all contracts resale.  This is an interesting trip.



I noticed that the other day. I'm not CWA either. . .

For those who want to know what your point balance is, make a reservation, go through the reservation process and you'll be able to see your point balance prior to committing to the reservation. Then cancel the process. It's a work around, but it's better than wondering about your points.


----------



## vacationhopeful

But the first thing is you have to have ONLINE access ... from the person who just got off the phone with customer care ... 50+ minute wait.


----------



## Bigrob

Just got hung up on again, after waiting over an hour. This is ridiculous.


----------



## Braindead

BellaWyn said:


> Added to that joyride is the fact that I have* two* reservations now in the account that have the same resort, same date, same unit size and SAME Confirmation Number on both reservations.  Before the migration there was only one.  How does that happen?  More mysteries to solve because I don't have anything else to do with my time today except track down what WYN cannot [snark intended].


Be careful ! The way it's going they might get cancelled and lose your points for overlapping


----------



## seascapemvy

Bigrob said:


> Just got hung up on again, after waiting over an hour. This is ridiculous.


I have not tried calling them but I agree its ridiculous.  I have never been able to log on to the new system and I keep trying, not sure why I want to keep frustrating myself but...  Wyndham has totally messed up the upgrade.  Or is it a downgrade?  I can't tell because I can't log in and see how it works.


----------



## Sandy VDH

morrisjim said:


> I noticed that the other day. I'm not CWA either. . .
> 
> For those who want to know what your point balance is, make a reservation, go through the reservation process and you'll be able to see your point balance prior to committing to the reservation. Then cancel the process. It's a work around, but it's better than wondering about your points.



That worked yesterday, but it disappeared on me today.  It does not show my points balance anymore.


----------



## wjappraise

Braindead said:


> You did say the new system will be live come hell or high water. Your prediction was the best. Wish you were wrong but you were dead on ! Hope my memory was right on who predicted this.  I'll stop there because I can't even come up with proper wording to describe what is going on.
> 
> THIS IS THE MOST UNFAIR ADVANTAGE for some you could imagine. WYNDHAM GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR --- !!!!!!
> NO OWNER IS TO BLAME! Hope I didn't need to ad that.



Yes I did make that prognostication.  I would have loved to be wrong.  But the arrogance of the decision makers at Wyndham is off the chart.   I've called them the Great Oz of Wyndham because they believe we will all be impressed with their smoke and curtains.  We are not idiots.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## am1

VCs are not able to see room numbers.  It certain resorts it is very important to know the room number to see if you will be able to stay in the same room for a split stay.  There are only 2 4 bedroom presidentials at ocean walk.  They are beside each other but a lot of work to move from one to the other.


----------



## jberndt10

ilya said:


> I was told that this morning. Maybe they were giving me an excuse but they did tell me my account that read "not available" was because I have 1 mill points and they want to make sure everything gets transferred correctly.  In other words they want to take this opportunity to audit another set of accounts.


We are Club Wyndham Select 406k, between 2 contracts...nothing complicated, but still "not available."


----------



## wed100105

I'm showing nothing at all now for Wyndham Glacier Canyon. Is anyone seeing availability ever at GC in any sized unit?


----------



## philb702

wed100105 said:


> I'm showing nothing at all now for Wyndham Glacier Canyon. Is anyone seeing availability ever at GC in any sized unit?



I see the same. It was doing that for me yesterday and then some availability opened up later in the day and I was able to get some reservations.


----------



## 55plus

wed100105 said:


> I'm showing nothing at all now for Wyndham Glacier Canyon. Is anyone seeing availability ever at GC in any sized unit?



I picked up several discounted Glacier Canyon reservations for July the other day and an upgrade on one of them. Nothing available yesterday and today. So far they are still are showing in my account's vacation page.


----------



## bestresort

I agree FUBAR---a TOTAL DISASTER. Im locked out.I had a 2 month audit last fall and passed with flying colors.
I do have a large account with many contracts

They should pull the plug apologize for this "pos", and go back to the old system.

They obviously didnt test it before implementation.

Before the change over, I was chatting with a reservation agent and expressing my opinion on the new rules, the girl said " Yeah i told my manager, the platinum owners wont like this!...He responds Ah, they will get over it!"

Wyndham should be ashamed of themselves.

My thinking at the moment is stopping maint payments and letting the account go into default. 

Wyndham is total exposed for a lawsuit..even if they are entitled to make changes, they are not allowed to FUBAR the whole system and deny people access to accounts.


----------



## 55plus

Wyndham has deep pockets so a lawsuit if futile. Now a class action, that's another story. . .


----------



## Mary W

I am able to log in, but am unable to book a reservation at the Wyndham Canterbury in San Francisco for specific dates in August.  For 36+ hours, it has shown a unit available for the specific dates I want, but when I try to book it, a screen pops up that says "We apologize for the inconvenience, but the room you requested is no longer available. Please select another room for this reservation."  However, the availability calendar continues to show it is there and a search with the specific check in and check out dates shows it is available.  I have been checking since yesterday morning to see if anything has changed, but still keep getting the same result.  So frustrating!


----------



## ilya

Bigrob said:


> Just got hung up on again, after waiting over an hour. This is ridiculous.




Brother in law  is a PR owner paid tons, never rents , and has only done a few c/r/u in the many years he has owned. He can not get in either and the PR line hassled him for 2 hours to try and cancel a reservation before 15 mark.  So there is no rhyme or reason that I can see. They should take down the site so EVERYONE has the same opportunity.  How can they get away with this???


----------



## nicemann

Mary W said:


> I am able to log in, but am unable to book a reservation at the Wyndham Canterbury in San Francisco for specific dates in August.  For 36+ hours, it has shown a unit available for the specific dates I want, but when I try to book it, a screen pops up that says "We apologize for the inconvenience, but the room you requested is no longer available. Please select another room for this reservation."  However, the availability calendar continues to show it is there and a search with the specific check in and check out dates shows it is available.  I have been checking since yesterday morning to see if anything has changed, but still keep getting the same result.  So frustrating!



Humm I just picked a random week in August 6 - 12, came back with a 1 bedroom presidental and the same error when I tried to book "We apologize for the inconvenience, but the room you requested is no longer available. Please select another room for this reservation."

Weird thing is I tried Oct 15th - 20th and had two choices, a 1 bedroom PR and a 1 bedroom deluxe.  The PR gave the same error but the 1 bedroom deluxe it took me to the booking screen.  Not sure if you were looking at a PR and that is causing the issue?


----------



## Braindead

nicemann said:


> First impression I like the site.  To me more user friendly then the old one, of course I'm not VIP


Were you serious ? Or did you just want to be opposing after I posted that I hoped the new site becomes more user friendly!


----------



## ronparise

morrisjim said:


> Wyndham has deep pockets so a lawsuit if futile. Now a class action, that's another story. . .



And in a class action suit we could be compensated as much as a dollar or two

But if you are interested I know who to recommend as the attorney


----------



## buckor

I am tired of being told that "My account is not available at this time" when I hear of so many others who are able to log in to the new site!

When will I have access to my account? They definitely took out my MF due this month over the weekend...that part still works!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## rickandcindy23

We cannot get into our account either.  Our daughter is beyond frustrated, and even the VIP line has grouchy people answering calls.  That is unusual for the VIP line.


----------



## nicemann

Braindead said:


> Were you serious ? Or did you just want to be opposing after I posted that I hoped the new site becomes more user friendly!



To be honest when I got in on Sunday my initial impression was I liked it.  I don't have the big change factor due to only using the only site for 6 months.  Guess I was excited after I saw it was letting me book ARP as promised when in the past you had to call in.  I liked it till I started to just do a basic search instead a specific search.  That is where it lost me.  Why do I have to pick a room type to view the availability for the month?  Then the system glitches started like removing the point status.  After the initial thrill of ARP going away and spending more time with it yeah I agree it is not even close.


----------



## wjappraise

morrisjim said:


> Wyndham has deep pockets so a lawsuit if futile. Now a class action, that's another story. . .



This could be the straw that broke the camel's back, and ushered in the class action suit.  Lots of damages.  Punitive, too.


----------



## Mary W

nicemann said:


> Humm I just picked a random week in August 6 - 12, came back with a 1 bedroom presidental and the same error when I tried to book "We apologize for the inconvenience, but the room you requested is no longer available. Please select another room for this reservation."
> 
> Weird thing is I tried Oct 15th - 20th and had two choices, a 1 bedroom PR and a 1 bedroom deluxe.  The PR gave the same error but the 1 bedroom deluxe it took me to the booking screen.  Not sure if you were looking at a PR and that is causing the issue?



Yes- it was a one bedroom presidential reserve for August 2-4.  Should that make a difference within 90 days of check-in?  I have booked presidential reserve units at the Canterbury many times.  ( We are Platinum VIP, but not presidential reserve.)  My understanding (using the previous system) was that if a unit was visible, it was available to book.


----------



## Zeke_62

Has anyone figured out the upgrade logic?  In the example below, the one with the star shows both the 2dx and the LO as upgrade options.  The other 3 options only show the LO, and do NOT show the 2dx?


----------



## Sandy VDH

Zeke_62 said:


> Has anyone figured out the upgrade logic?  In the example below, the one with the star shows both the 2dx and the LO as upgrade options.  The other 3 options only show the LO, and do NOT show the 2dx?
> View attachment 3949



I have a feeling there is some ADA mobility/hearing preference, which favors a mobility to a mobility unit which would be great, but I can't location enough data points to test it and come to some conclusions based on behavior.  So a mobility would upgrade to a mobility, but all other NON mobility would ignore that unit type and upgrade to a NON-mobility unit.


What dates and resort are you looking at in this search, maybe I will take a look at it.


----------



## dagger1

morrisjim said:


> Wyndham has deep pockets so a lawsuit if futile. Now a class action, that's another story. . .


What might be even more interesting would be several hundred(s) of "locked out", "audited", or others who cannot access their accounts BUT are still required to pay their MF's to all file suit in Small Claims Court.  It's fairly cheap to do, and I think Wyndham would be required to show up or risk losing.  The
judgement (depending on State) might only be in the $5K range, but several hundred of those would definitely catch Wyndham's attention.


----------



## uscav8r

Wow! Reading all these posts, I feel lucky that:
1) I can log in,
2) all my contract and contact info was correct down to the names on a specific contract,
3) I can see my allowable ARP and I can't see ARP I don't have,
4) all my existing reservations are intact, and
5) I can get into RCI. 

I think I better play the lottery this week!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhopian

Sandy VDH said:


> I have a feeling there is some ADA mobility/hearing preference, which favors a mobility to a mobility unit which would be great, but I can't location enough data points to test it and come to some conclusions based on behavior.  So a mobility would upgrade to a mobility, but all other NON mobility would ignore that unit type and upgrade to a NON-mobility unit.
> 
> 
> What dates and resort are you looking at in this search, maybe I will take a look at it.


This was my observation to sandy. This is why I said early on that the upgrades are going to be VERY specific which could lead to tinkering. If there is a 3br mobility unit available and you a have a 2br non-mobility unit it will not upgrade. The agents I spoke with last week plus said the upgrades would have to be exact matches and that there would be NO two level upgrades anymore which was a huge bummer for me.

I'm still waiting to get in and see if they fix the VIP upgrade issue so that we can select an upgrade manually or if it has ALL been moved to automation.


----------



## chapjim

morrisjim said:


> Wyndham has deep pockets so a lawsuit if futile. Now a class action, that's another story. . .



Helpful Hint:  Class actions ARE lawsuits.  

Fact:  The named plaintiffs in class action suits get next to nothing.  Remember the class actions against airlines?  What did you get?  A voucher.  The winners on the plaintiffs' side in class actions are the attorneys.


----------



## rubbub

nicemann said:
			
		

> First impression I like the site. To me more user friendly then the old one, of course I'm not VIP



My first impression is unavailable at this time.


----------



## 55plus

dagger1 said:


> What might be even more interesting would be several hundred(s) of "locked out", "audited", or others who cannot access their accounts BUT are still required to pay their MF's to all file suit in Small Claims Court.  It's fairly cheap to do, and I think Wyndham would be required to show up or risk losing.  The
> judgement (depending on State) might only be in the $5K range, but several hundred of those would definitely catch Wyndham's attention.



I believe the suit would have to filed in Florida or wherever the server are located since that is where the damage is occurring, however, I maybe wrong.


----------



## ronparise

rubbub said:


> My first impression is unavailable at this time.


I don't know what VIP has to do with anything. We all use the same website

I might agree with you, except I haven't been able to use it yet


----------



## dagger1

morrisjim said:


> I believe the suit would have to filed in Florida or wherever the server are located since that is where the damage is occurring, however, I maybe wrong.


You may well be right...  I don't really know how Small Claims Court works either, what their jurisdiction is...  But what a mess that would cause Wyndham if they received "summons" to 100's of different counties...


----------



## Braindead

Now I'm told my account is locked and don't call back for 48 hrs.  They claim due to migration not complete. Makes no sense.
1. Was able to access on Saturday
2. OC was able to obt into upgrades Monday morning
3. OC was able to login to my account and could perform any task Monday evening
4. Just now they can no longer perform any function on my account and it's locked
WELCOME TO SUSPENSION
NO FURTHER COMMENT OR I WOULD BE KICKED OUT OF TUG. The F bombs wouldn't be pretty


----------



## ronparise

Still can't log in


----------



## Wyndhamgirl

Sandy VDH said:


> Has any one tried to verify what is happening when you make a reservation that starts at the 60 day window.
> 
> There is a warning message that they are working on fixing the VIP discount and to ensure that you get it correctly, make your reservation so that the CHECK OUT day in included in the 60 day window.  Yet when I book the reservation what i am presented shows the discount for the entire stay.  But since NO one can see their point balances, I CAN'T VERIFY if there is a difference between what the reservation page is showing and what really happened.  So which is correct? the warning or the reservation confirmation INFO.  My guess is the warning.  But has anyone actually verified this.
> 
> I also noticed that yesterday on the booking window you used to see your point value available just prior to completing the booking.  But they also pulled that field as well.
> 
> So NOW there is NO way, anywhere, to see what your point values are.   Got me to thinking that on top of everything else POINT values are really FUBAR, why else remove any information pertaining to points from the newly rolled out website.  They don't want us to see what has happened, or we all suddenly got a big points bonanza, and they figure that not showing will stop us from booking everything available up.  OK I am speculating on that last bit, but I find it odd that they removed ANY and ALL places to check your available point balance.



 I am getting close to losing my points at the end of June and every time I log in there is a warning message telling me I have points that will expire on June 30. Yesterday I made reservations and it did tell me how many points I have remaining. That is the only place I have been able To find point balances? 

  I was on hold for two hours yesterday and when I got through I tried to cancel a one bedroom at great smoky Mountain Lodge because I used next year's points and I needed to use this year's points. The reservation never return to inventory for me to rebook it? The Wyndham representative had no idea why? She was very sweet but said it is in limbo and I don't know where it went. It would have been impossible for someone to upgrade to that unit because it is the smallest unit at the resort.

Prior to the new system I took an inventory on what was available at several resorts.  Every type of room with available for my fall break October 21 at Emerald grand. And every type of room except for the presidential rooms were available in August for my girls trip. When I logged in and when I talk to this Wyndham representative there are no openings at either resort for the weekend looking. I asked the representative how could those units have been taken when The entire system has been down all weekend? She really didn't know if the system was working quite right yet and advise me to keep checking because there are still a lot of glitches in the system? For the 15 minutes I spoke with her my great Smoky Mountains reservation never returned? I guess it remains in limbo?

 I almost feel as if they are hiding inventory from me? I would like to compare inventory with multiple accounts and see if everyone is getting the same information? I hate the new site!  I am a presidential. reserve owner with 2 1/2 million points and I use every bit of them! I have a huge family and we really make the best of them! I manage them very well! The system is going to make owning timeshares a pain and not a pleasure as they should be! 

 I have received two upgrades since the new system started. I logged on immediately requested upgrades for all my units. Two of my one-bedroom units were increased to three bedroom units and emerald grande. 

 It will be very interesting to see if they can fix the glitches in the system because right now it is not functioning properly! I don't see how they were going to continue to be able to use the system when we can't make reservations and the representatives after two hours of hold or unable to Assist us in making reservations because they can't find any inventory either.  I am very unhappy with all these changes!  I prefer to pick my upgrades!  I wasn't notified that I received an upgrade so I had no way to know to get online and see what I was upgraded to?  It took a day for the reservation to indicate what the upgrade was?  On the reservation it just indicated that the reservation was upgraded?  I guess I could have called back and held a few hours?  Wyndham has taken all control in this new website!!  It won't help anyone but them!


----------



## Bigrob

happyhopian said:


> This was my observation to sandy. This is why I said early on that the upgrades are going to be VERY specific which could lead to tinkering. If there is a 3br mobility unit available and you a have a 2br non-mobility unit it will not upgrade. The agents I spoke with last week plus said the upgrades would have to be exact matches and that there would be NO two level upgrades anymore which was a huge bummer for me.
> 
> I'm still waiting to get in and see if they fix the VIP upgrade issue so that we can select an upgrade manually or if it has ALL been moved to automation.



You can still select an upgrade manually on instant upgrades.


----------



## happyhopian

Bigrob said:


> You can still select an upgrade manually on instant upgrades.


well I have another set of accounts which I was able to log into. I selected a 1bd at bc on a random day for 2 night inside the window. There was also a 3br available for 2 nights. I booked the 1br for 2 nights, I selected automatic upgrade and nothing upgraded. Did I miss something


----------



## 55plus

For the amount of money some owners $pent buying very expensive developer points I feel they are being screwed more than the resell purchasers even though we are all being screwed the same, some a little more (locked out owners) than the rest of us.


----------



## scootr5

happyhopian said:


> well I have another set of accounts which I was able to log into. I selected a 1bd at bc on a random day for 2 night inside the window. There was also a 3br available for 2 nights. I booked the 1br for 2 nights, I selected automatic upgrade and nothing upgraded. Did I miss something



Wasn't there talk of the upgrade being to the next size (not the next _available_ size)?  I didn't really pay attention to it, as it's not something I can do.


----------



## Braindead

morrisjim said:


> For the amount of money some owners $pent buying very expensive developer points I feel they are being screwed more than the resell purchasers even though we are all being screwed the same, some a little more (locked out owners) than the rest of us.


Yep. I had no problems when I had all resale points. I've never done a rental. Only GCs used for family. 
I was definitely treated better as a resale owner. Now VIP Platinum and nothing but ---- on !!

I know you all advised not to do it !!


----------



## wed100105

I can't even search at Glacier Canyon now. The search button won't ever go blue for me, it stays at silver no matter what I put in to search. I am so irritated with them!


----------



## OutSkiing

Braindead said:


> Now I'm told my account is locked and don't call back for 48 hrs.  They claim due to migration not complete. Makes no sense.
> 1. Was able to access on Saturday
> 2. OC was able to obt into upgrades Monday morning
> 3. OC was able to login to my account and could perform any task Monday evening
> 4. Just now they can no longer perform any function on my account and it's locked


The only Enhanced Travel Experience we've had since the cutover Sunday has been the 'Account Unavailable at this time' message.  Today we were also told to wait 48 hours .. until Thursday before calling them back.

Bob


----------



## chapjim

scootr5 said:


> Wasn't there talk of the upgrade being to the next size (not the next _available_ size)?  I didn't really pay attention to it, as it's not something I can do.



Yes, there was.  It was left hanging because nobody knew.  Maybe by now someone does.  Availability for the next 60 days is kind of scarce so there probably aren't too many 1BR to 3BR upgrade opportunities.

The gal who jumped from a 1BR to a 3BR at Emerald Grande doesn't count -- Emerald Grande has no 2BR units.

I can tell you that if a 1BR Suite and a 1BR Deluxe are available, it does not allow an upgrade to the 1BR Deluxe.


----------



## Braindead

wed100105 said:


> I can't even search at Glacier Canyon now. The search button won't ever go blue for me, it stays at silver no matter what I put in to search. I am so irritated with them!


Probably just starting realize that all this great availability wasn't really available. UH OH what do we do now ?


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> well I have another set of accounts which I was able to log into. I selected a 1bd at bc on a random day for 2 night inside the window. There was also a 3br available for 2 nights. I booked the 1br for 2 nights, I selected automatic upgrade and nothing upgraded. Did I miss something




If you are in the upgrade window and you are booking the unit now, why put the request in, just manually upgrade.

If you are outside the upgrade window, well duh, it is not time to upgrade yet. 


What and exactly when the automatic upgrades get matched is the black box.  We don't know it, haven't seen it, don't know it is instantaneous (I doubt it) But it is likely a frequent batch job. So either keep watching it and see how long it takes for the upgrade sweep to happen.  Or if you don't want to risk it and it is in upgrade window, do it yourself.


----------



## PeterS

Just curious...

I have been able to log in and ownership contracts are there.

Only missing the available points.... The points tab seems to randomly appear and disappear and when it is there it links to a dead page...

I saw others having the same problem earlier, just wondering if it has cleared for anyone...

I haven't called yet because it seems for many to be fruitless and frustrating.... 

Thanks


----------



## Sandy VDH

chapjim said:


> Yes, there was.  It was left hanging because nobody knew.  Maybe by now someone does.  Availability for the next 60 days is kind of scarce so there probably aren't too many 1BR to 3BR upgrade opportunities.
> 
> The gal who jumped from a 1BR to a 3BR at Emerald Grande doesn't count -- Emerald Grande has no 2BR units.
> 
> I can tell you that if a 1BR Suite and a 1BR Deluxe are available, it does not allow an upgrade to the 1BR Deluxe.



I think it is going to take some time and observation, or scenario testing to see exact WHAT to auto upgrade rules are and WHEN it actually processes the upgrade requests (what frequency does the matching happen because I assume putting the checkmark on the request and saving, does not at that exact moment trigger a search.  there is  likely some sweep for requests that are in the upgrade window and them match based on some priority (VIP status, date of booking, date of upgrade request ) that has to be determined.


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> Probably just starting realize that all this great availability wasn't really available. UH OH what do we do now ?


Does anyone think this is just a coincidence that  many people can't login, or was there more to the plan? Exactly 35 days before the real start of summer vacations . At 35 days the first level of discounts apply to silver owners.  Are they creating inventory for these owners ? There has to be more to it than they just decided to roll out a new system before summer vacation starts. September would have been a much better time. It's the same as renovating a resort over summer..No, they begin at a slow time.. September/October.


----------



## chapjim

Sandy VDH said:


> I think it is going to take some time and observation, or scenario testing to see exact WHAT to auto upgrade rules are and WHEN it actually processes the upgrade requests (what frequency does the matching happen because I assume putting the checkmark on the request and saving, does not at that exact moment trigger a search.  there is  likely some sweep for requests that are in the upgrade window and them match based on some priority (VIP status, date of booking, date of upgrade request ) that has to be determined.



Upgrades, when available, can be instantaneous (i.e., no check box involved).  I just booked a 2BR LO at Cypress Palms starting July 15.  The availability was a 1BR Suite, a 1BR Deluxe, and a 2BR LO.  I booked the 1BR Suite and was offered an upgrade to the 2BR LO only.  I was not offered an upgrade to the 1BR Deluxe.

Yes, we have a lot to learn about upgrades and some other aspects of this system.  Somewhere along the way, those of us who do rentals will have to figure out ways to rent for more than maintenance fees.  

In the meantime, I'm losing my whatever on some rentals where I set a price last winter to repeat customers.  I have three 3BR units at Governors' Green for a family reunion and a 2BR Deluxe unit to get a discount and to use for upgrades.  I had to put get guest certificates for the 3BR units and don't dare cancel them looking for upgrades from the 2BR unit.  I'll lose over $2,700 on these rentals.  Can't stay in business like that.


----------



## OutSkiing

I am a software developer / software architect having worked many consulting gigs, banks, insurance companies and retail store operations.  I have never seen such a botched software rollout in my life. This is incredible miss-management, failed functional matchup, failed testing, failed implementation planning, failed contingency planning. And obviously missed schedules for the last few years. How horrible it must be to work the phone bank fumbling through the day and doling out excuses.

Bob


----------



## happyhopian

please be sure to go by the club wyndham facebook page and leave a message or two. I've done my part and they are telling people to private message their member numbers and a special agent from OC will contact them. DO not Post to the page, but rather leave comments under their posts so that they can be seen by everyone. This will force them to deal with the issue. At least they are taking notice and have started responding to people in the last 12 hours. I bet they are starting to realize what a bad decision this was


----------



## OutSkiing

Mary W said:


> Yes- it was a one bedroom presidential reserve for August 2-4.  Should that make a difference within 90 days of check-in?  I have booked presidential reserve units at the Canterbury many times.  ( We are Platinum VIP, but not presidential reserve.)  My understanding (using the previous system) was that if a unit was visible, it was available to book.


I know they have to keep a certain percentage of inventory for PR owners .. not sure if that extends into the 90 day timeslot.  Maybe they lost the ability to 'block' those PR held units from view of non PR owners.  Defect number 689.  My place of employment would prioritize it as a 'High' and fix it before release because it has customer impact. But Wyndham probably prioritizes 'Low' because they just don't care.

Bob


----------



## chapjim

ilya said:


> Does anyone think this is just a coincidence that  many people can't login, or was there more to the plan? Exactly 35 days before the real start of summer vacations . At 35 days the first level of discounts apply to silver owners.  Are they creating inventory for these owners ? There has to be more to it than they just decided to roll out a new system before summer vacation starts. September would have been a much better time. It's the same as renovating a resort over summer..No, they begin at a slow time.. September/October.



I think Occam's Razor applies.  Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.  The US Government regularly does a similar thing -- iimplement a new financial system at the beginning of a Fiscal Year.  What could go wrong?

Wyndham seems clueless to how owners do things -- legitimate things, that is.  Some aspects of the new system seem to have been designed by salesmen.  Owners don't need a huge photo of Emerald Grande at the top of the reservations page or Clearwater Beach at the top of your home page or all that cutesie stuff at the bottom of your home page.  It's just stuff you have to scroll through.


----------



## Braindead

chapjim said:


> Upgrades, when available, can be instantaneous (i.e., no check box involved).  I just booked a 2BR LO at Cypress Palms starting July 15.  The availability was a 1BR Suite, a 1BR Deluxe, and a 2BR LO.  I booked the 1BR Suite and was offered an upgrade to the 2BR LO only.  I was not offered an upgrade to the 1BR Deluxe.
> 
> Yes, we have a lot to learn about upgrades and some other aspects of this system.  Somewhere along the way, those of us who do rentals will have to figure out ways to rent for more than maintenance fees.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm losing my whatever on some rentals where I set a price last winter to repeat customers.  I have three 3BR units at Governors' Green for a family reunion and a 2BR Deluxe unit to get a discount and to use for upgrades.  I had to put get guest certificates for the 3BR units and don't dare cancel them looking for upgrades from the 2BR unit.  I'll lose over $2,700 on these rentals.  Can't stay in business like that.


That is very interesting. A 1 bedroom suite doesn't upgrade to a 1 bedroom deluxe. So they are treated equal. The upgrade isn't based on point requirements. It has to go up a bedroom level. If a 2 BR is cancelled it can go to the deluxe or the suite at this resort. 
I wonder if a studio upgrades to 1 BR or 2 BR ?
When OC opted me in for a upgrade at Oceanside Pier. We currently have 2 BR oceanwiew and opted us in for a 2 BR oceanfront as the upgrade option.


----------



## Sandy VDH

I think there may be 3 classes of business rules pertaining to upgrades.

1) what the automated request algorithm does. 
2) what the manual upgrade does.
3) what OC can override

only some experience will tell us if 1 and 2 are the same, but I don't have enough data to make an educated guess.


----------



## uscav8r

ilya said:


> Does anyone think this is just a coincidence that  many people can't login, or was there more to the plan? Exactly 35 days before the real start of summer vacations . At 35 days the first level of discounts apply to silver owners.  Are they creating inventory for these owners ? There has to be more to it than they just decided to roll out a new system before summer vacation starts. September would have been a much better time. It's the same as renovating a resort over summer..No, they begin at a slow time.. September/October.



Your mind (or your frustration) is playing tricks on you. Silver owners get discounts at 60 days (just like any other VIP), and can get upgrades at 30 days. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zeke_62

Sandy VDH said:


> I have a feeling there is some ADA mobility/hearing preference, which favors a mobility to a mobility unit which would be great, but I can't location enough data points to test it and come to some conclusions based on behavior.  So a mobility would upgrade to a mobility, but all other NON mobility would ignore that unit type and upgrade to a NON-mobility unit.
> 
> 
> What dates and resort are you looking at in this search, maybe I will take a look at it.


That screen shot is from Grand Desert.  Take a look at week days.  I was thinking along the same lines of ADA,  but in the example above a hearing upgraded to vision/mobility/hearing, but a hearing/mobility did not.  Now I checked again and this time a hearing did NOT upgrade to the vision/mobility/hearing.


----------



## BellaWyn

Check that the names that WERE attached to your reservation dates are still the same post-migration.  Just found one of mine where they moved the guest name to a completely different date and unit size.  Cross-checked it against all of my confirmations and pre-migration support documents thinking maybe it was my error.  It wasn't. The name got attached to the wrong reservation during the shut-down.  It's fixed now but cost another GC.  

Another checklist item for towmorrow's perma-hold call.


----------



## Braindead

Can the system actually move things around as in BellaWyn post ?Or are they playing with our accounts ? I'm no computer genius but that sounds more like a manually loaded migration.


----------



## Avislo

A few of my reservations do not have any travelor name on the reservations page.


----------



## md8287

Yes. I had reservations lined up with certain owner names, they migrated over with different names in some cases and it most recently looks like they were working on uncovering potential duplicates with similar spelling (which must be manual).


----------



## BellaWyn

Braindead said:


> Can the system actually move things around as in BellaWyn post ?Or are they playing with our accounts ? I'm no computer genius but that sounds more like a manually loaded migration.


That could be one explanation for all of the locked accounts and "still downloading" excuses we are getting for the missing reservations.

They also are bringing the resorts all onto the same system as what corporate can see.  When I called a resort tonight on another one of my mystery missing reservations to confirm the resort had the information they can see the "overlapping" dates* ALERT* on my account.  This is what is creating the overlap!  Note the SAME confirmation number and different guest names.



 


Missing reservations -- still downloading.  What are they using?  Dial-up?  It's a freakin' data MIGRATION.  Not a download.

Honestly.  I think we are actually seeing them change the system over live.  Stuff is not yet complete, not all resorts are fully functioning yet, information is missing and data that is being brought over is inaccurate.


----------



## happyhopian

I have tested and can confirm that if you book a mobility unit and there is a larger mobility unit then you can upgrade to the mobility unit. If you book a regular unit and a mobility unit is available for upgrade it will not be offered to you. If you have mobility and there is a regular unit available it will not be offered to you. I have tested this four times tonight and I will confirm you must book mobility to upgrade to mobility and the system only upgrades mobility to mobility, hearing to hearing and regular to regular. There is not mixing based on the several test I have run tonight on phantom bookings. 

Yes, there must be an exact match.


----------



## Avislo

Most of the audits and subsequent actions based on the audits are probably done by a person.  I am not ruling out that the computer program(s) are not doing some of the identifications of what Wyndham may consider problem accounts.


----------



## Zeke_62

in my upgrade testing: see the screenshot above:
1suite upgrades to 2dx
1suite H upgrades to 2dx AND 2br M/H
1suite M/H upgrades to 2dx AND 2LO M/H   -----  but NOT the 2br M/H  - which is the EXACT match

1dx resulted in the same options.  Tonight nothing upgraded to the 2dx V/M/H  whereas last night I did find a 1suite H that upgraded to the 2dx V/M/H

Some sort of illogical logic - seems to fit the norm these days


----------



## Wyndhamgirl

wed100105 said:


> I can't even search at Glacier Canyon now. The search button won't ever go blue for me, it stays at silver no matter what I put in to search. I am so irritated with them!


Try to hit the book button again?  I have to hit the book button and renter all the information just to search different days!  Very inconvenient


----------



## Sandy VDH

Braindead said:


> Can the system actually move things around as in BellaWyn post ?Or are they playing with our accounts ? I'm no computer genius but that sounds more like a manually loaded migration.



They replaced the database(s).  I had a lengthy conversation with OC this morning.  So I know there is a new Database the the new website uses.  So they had to do data migration from one or more systems into the new system. 

During that conversion process which has a bunch of  ETL (Extract, Translate, Load) programs that have to execute.  (if you must know  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extract,_transform,_load).

Well it is Garbage in Garbage out,  They clearly have data issue, which now is causing issues in the new system. So the issue could be the data itself, it could be how the created and mapped the ETL programs, so data may end up in the wrong place.  If they were merging multiple system into the same system they could have conflicts.  So I would say it is a mess, and that is why. 

As far as conversion of data is going I will say that I think it is still ongoing. That is why were are seeing resorts that should have inventory for certain times of the year, but NOTHING NADA is there.  So my guess not all inventory data is converted.  They ran into some issue along the way.  I was doing some searches around NOLA.  I searched and only Avenue plaza came up.  I then ran the detailed monthly view search to figure out the exact dates available.  when I figure out my target dates, and were running some search, suddenly inventory that wasn't there 1 minute ago now has 3 room types available at La Belle Maison for the same dates.  So suddenly 3 rooms popped into inventory at the same time. Possiblely but not likely. Who knows for sure, I am only bring my IT experience about what you have to do and what happens when this don't go so well.


As for upgrades...
There should be some coded rules about what room type can upgrade to other room types.  I have no idea what those rules are and even if they were coded correctly.  There could be errors there too.


----------



## John_and_Val

At Vino Bello right now.....have a "group discussion" on Thursday.....should be the easiest 150 bucks ever made!!!!! Can't wait to blow all their sales for the day....


----------



## Free2Roam

There is absolutely some manual human data entry/verification with this conversion/migration. I've been told that by a few owner care folks. That's what's taking so long for people (like me) to get access. Incredible... 

Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


----------



## Avislo

One knowledge person I talked to indicated there were about 6 or 8 systems coming together.


----------



## vacationhopeful

I am beginning to believe the only data matching Wyndham is really trying to do, is match a member number to a TUG userid.

Only kidding .... or am I?


----------



## Avislo

If I remember, the possibility of Wyndham Monitoring this and related threads has been discussed.  Monitoring of social media, I believe, is probably not uncommon for big corporations, including Wyndham.


----------



## ronparise

Avislo said:


> If I remember, the possibility of Wyndham Monitoring this and related threads has been discussed.  Monitoring of social media, I believe, is probably not uncommon for big corporations, including Wyndham.




I know a number of the vacation counselors and owner care folks follow tug, because more than one told me so. I dont know whether or not anyone has "follow tug" as part of their job description, but I assume so, as there is someone within Wyndham that does follow tug for Worldmark... (Hi Stephanie)


----------



## Kozman

Sandy VDH said:


> If you are in the upgrade window and you are booking the unit now, why put the request in, just manually upgrade.
> 
> If you are outside the upgrade window, well duh, it is not time to upgrade yet.
> 
> 
> What and exactly when the automatic upgrades get matched is the black box.  We don't know it, haven't seen it, don't know it is instantaneous (I doubt it) But it is likely a frequent batch job. So either keep watching it and see how long it takes for the upgrade sweep to happen.  Or if you don't want to risk it and it is in upgrade window, do it yourself.



The last time I logged on the manual link 'check for upgrades' was missing.


----------



## happyhopian

vacationhopeful said:


> I am beginning to believe the only data matching Wyndham is really trying to do, is match a member number to a TUG userid.
> 
> Only kidding .... or am I?


I think that is silly. I happily tell them I post here and I've been told from OC's that they learn more here than they do from training. I can assure you that TUGG is the least of their concerns. Have you seen the facebook comments? I doubt they care what we are saying. This site has been around a LONG time sharing how tos and what ifs and no one here has ever had a problem as a result of it (no I do not think the suspensions had anything to do with TUGG posting but rather "perceived" massive manipulation on large accounts as a result of internal audits on trust usage). 

If Facebook continues to burn like a wildfire then they are going to have some SERIOUS issues to resolve.

I posted and got two private messages from Wyndham asking how they can help resolve this problem. I am supposed to receive a call from Owner Care today as a result of my chat with wyndham on facebook....we will see and I will report


----------



## wjappraise

Avislo said:


> One knowledge person I talked to indicated there were about 6 or 8 systems coming together.



Robert.  Please don't provide errant scoops.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaryBella7

happyhopian said:


> I posted and got two private messages from Wyndham asking how they can help resolve this problem. I am supposed to receive a call from Owner Care today as a result of my chat with wyndham on facebook....we will see and I will report



Been waiting on my call since Monday


----------



## dagger1

ronparise said:


> I know a number of the vacation counselors and owner care folks follow tug, because more than one told me so. I dont know whether or not anyone has "follow tug" as part of their job description, but I assume so, as there is someone within Wyndham that does follow tug for Worldmark... (Hi Stephanie)


They are probably laughing their a$$es off right now....  I don't think they care at all...


----------



## happyhopian

dagger1 said:


> They are probably laughing their a$$es off right now....  I don't think they care at all...


TOTALLY Agree. Based on the reports of people attitudes over there I can guess they are FURIOUS at their leadership and moral is at an all time low.


----------



## dagger1

Has anybody who's account has been "not available..." been able to login yet?


----------



## MaryBella7

dagger1 said:


> Has anybody who's account has been "not available..." been able to login yet?



No


----------



## Sandi Bo

dagger1 said:


> Has anybody who's account has been "not available..." been able to login yet?





lhumes7 said:


> No



Not me, either.


----------



## ilya

Sandi Bo said:


> Not me, either.


no


----------



## wed100105

Is anyone able to see any inventory this morning? Everything is NOT AVAILABLE for me.


----------



## Roger830

When searching by resort and date, I get no availability.

When I use the availability calendar with a specific unit type, there are units all over the map, but it didn't show by the resort I was searching.

I hope that it's not functioning that way by intent.


----------



## Jae1242

Sandi Bo said:


> Not me, either.


I am still unable to login as well.  This is frustrating, stressful and I feel powerless. No one can help?!! I'm being told VC can not make reservations in my acct, put GC on reservations that I do have, and can not cancel...They keep reading that damn script and "call back in 48hrs"


----------



## WhiskeyJack

Sandi Bo said:


> Not me, either.



Same here.  Seen "not available" message since Saturday and never been able to log in.


----------



## Roger830

I login fine with the old link but not the new.

10:34am removed link, not helping anyone


----------



## dagger1

I just called in, got through and talked to a very nice VC.  She read through and confirmed all our reservations.  She then transferred me to a website counselor (can't remember the exact title), I assume in IT.  She reconfirmed our reservations, and then put me on hold to talk to IT about our particular member number.  After talking to IT, she informed me that our account, due to large (1,087,000) point ownership, was being "audited" to "make sure all points transferred correctly".  She said the reservations were safe and would not be lost, but they were going over "large" accounts individually to make sure the points transfer was correct.  She said IT told her that our account would probably be available by the end of the week, but no guarantees.  I guess I will check in on Friday and see what the result is....


----------



## dagger1

Roger830 said:


> Those that can't login. Are you using the new or old link?
> 
> I login fine with the old link but not the new.
> 
> https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/home.page


I can't access the "old" homepage.  Even using the link you attached I get the "new" homepage..


----------



## Sandi Bo

dagger1 said:


> I just called in, got through and talked to a very nice VC.  She read through and confirmed all our reservations.  She then transferred me to a website counselor (can't remember the exact title), I assume in IT.  She reconfirmed our reservations, and then put me on hold to talk to IT about our particular member number.  After talking to IT, she informed me that our account, due to large (1,087,000) point ownership, was being "audited" to "make sure all points transferred correctly".  She said the reservations were safe and would not be lost, but they were going over "large" accounts individually to make sure the points transfer was correct.  She said IT told her that our account would probably be available by the end of the week, but no guarantees.  I guess I will check in on Friday and see what the result is....



Wow!  That's all I can say (thanks for the update).


----------



## MaryBella7

dagger1 said:


> I just called in, got through and talked to a very nice VC.  She read through and confirmed all our reservations.  She then transferred me to a website counselor (can't remember the exact title), I assume in IT.  She reconfirmed our reservations, and then put me on hold to talk to IT about our particular member number.  After talking to IT, she informed me that our account, due to large (1,087,000) point ownership, was being "audited" to "make sure all points transferred correctly".  She said the reservations were safe and would not be lost, but they were going over "large" accounts individually to make sure the points transfer was correct.  She said IT told her that our account would probably be available by the end of the week, but no guarantees.  I guess I will check in on Friday and see what the result is....



Pretty sure that quite a few of the people making reservations have more points than that.


----------



## Roger830

dagger1 said:


> I can't access the "old" homepage.  Even using the link you attached I get the "new" homepage..



I also get the new homepage, but it lets me login.
The new link has the same look but I can't use it to login.

edit:
The url is different for me with the old link, then it gets redirected which I then previously showed.

Old url
https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/index.do


----------



## Free2Roam

It really makes a difference when you speak to someone who is pleasant and honest. 

My first contact (Monday) was full of misinformation. Called back later that day and the person who answered gave the same misinformation. I was transferred twice and finally spoke to someone (Brandon) in "triage" who was very pleasant, patient, informative and honest. Called again last night and the woman who answered was also pleasant, patient, informative and honest. That seems to lower the blood pressure quite a bit. 

Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


----------



## wed100105

Roger830 said:


> When searching by resort and date, I get no availability.
> 
> When I use the availability calendar with a specific unit type, there are units all over the map, but it didn't show by the resort I was searching.
> 
> I hope that it's not functioning that way by intent.



I tried searching specific unit type for any dates at several resorts this morning and still can't see any availability. 

I saw some availability at Williamsburg on Sunday night; now I see nothing.


----------



## Braindead

dagger1 said:


> I just called in, got through and talked to a very nice VC.  She read through and confirmed all our reservations.  She then transferred me to a website counselor (can't remember the exact title), I assume in IT.  She reconfirmed our reservations, and then put me on hold to talk to IT about our particular member number.  After talking to IT, she informed me that our account, due to large (1,087,000) point ownership, was being "audited" to "make sure all points transferred correctly".  She said the reservations were safe and would not be lost, but they were going over "large" accounts individually to make sure the points transfer was correct.  She said IT told her that our account would probably be available by the end of the week, but no guarantees.  I guess I will check in on Friday and see what the result is....


Brilliant!!! Upset your largest owners. A lot are VIP Platinum. Over 60 percent of sales is to previous owners. This will tank sales for awhile.


----------



## ilya

Jae1242 said:


> I am still unable to login as well.  This is frustrating, stressful and I feel powerless. No one can help?!! I'm being told VC can not make reservations in my acct, put GC on reservations that I do have, and can not cancel...They keep reading that damn script and "call back in 48hrs"




I was able to have a VC cancel a few reservations this morning. Yesterday they said NO. Guess where all the points ended up? Use year this year. They were credit pooled points.. And in a bonus contract I had years ago., which was the reason for my very temporary audit last year.  Points ending up with no contract #. I had to use or lose. And they are back after all this time.. So, I have points that expire that I can not make reservations for, nor put guest certificates on . Tried to pull points forward and can't do.


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> Brilliant!!! Upset your largest owners. A lot are VIP Platinum. Over 60 percent of sales is to previous owners. This will tank sales for awhile.


  My prediction was correct. Excuse for more audits...


----------



## Braindead

FreeIn2010 said:


> It really makes a difference when you speak to someone who is pleasant and honest.
> 
> My first contact (Monday) was full of misinformation. Called back later that day and the person who answered gave the same misinformation. I was transferred twice and finally spoke to someone (Brandon) in "triage" who was very pleasant, patient, informative and honest. Called again last night and the woman who answered was also pleasant, patient, informative and honest. That seems to lower the blood pressure quite a bit.
> 
> Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


I'm always nice on the phone. It's not the poor soles answering the phones fault. 
We should all remember that.

Last night after being placed on hold when the OC rep came back and informed me our account is locked. I joked with him. That I'm glad I haven't been in his shoes the past couple of days. He laughed and joked a bit

Then I hang up and come here to post and vent my frustrations


----------



## dagger1

lhumes7 said:


> Pretty sure that quite a few of the people making reservations have more points than that.


Yes, that's what I said to the "website counselor".  "Is 1,087,000 points considered large?"  She said:  "Oh yes!!  Some people only have 64,000 points!  I always thought 1M points were peanuts compared to the really large points owners...


----------



## bendadin

Braindead said:


> Can the system actually move things around as in BellaWyn post ?Or are they playing with our accounts ? I'm no computer genius but that sounds more like a manually loaded migration.



So are we perhaps victims of alphabetical order?


----------



## Bigrob

Roger830 said:


> I also get the new homepage, but it lets me login.
> The new link has the same look but I can't use it to login.
> 
> edit:
> The url is different for me with the old link, then it gets redirected which I then previously showed.
> 
> Old url
> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/index.do



It doesn't matter what link you use to get there, if your message upon login is "your account is unavailable at this time" then you cannot get in, in part because not all your data (reservations, points, etc.) have been correctly migrated to the new database. Rather than let us in and go nuts because the data are incorrect or missing, they are blocking access. My guess is that the decision to do that was made by leadership but not communicated timely to VCs so they gave misinformation (unintentionally) because they didn't have any other information to provide. 

That being said, it is very frustrating. I have two reservations I need to add guest confirmations to that start Friday for Memorial Day weekend. My guests are understandably nervous that they can't verify the reservation is in their name.

I don't believe the 48 hours can be considered to have started yet. In my discussions, it was indicated that they understand that we can't add GC's to reservations, make reservations, or even cancel reservations (and neither can VCs on our behalf). In essence, we cannot use our memberships at all... There are lots of notes on my account and I created a spreadsheet of all my reservations in each member number prior to the cutover, so I'll know if anything is missing.

Oddly enough, they still have all the information available in the old system. So they could just do the load from the old system - except that some of the owners who have currently locked accounts made reservations or added guest confirmations after the rollout but before access was blocked to the VCs. For example, I called in to add a guest confirmation (after waiting about 2.5 hours) and got one added, but then the second one, about 30 minutes later, could not be added. So it is possible that during that call, they made the decision to lock the accounts down.


----------



## Sandi Bo

bendadin said:


> So are we perhaps victims of alphabetical order?


Story of my life...


----------



## bendadin

wed100105 said:


> Is anyone able to see any inventory this morning? Everything is NOT AVAILABLE for me.



I just got a new RCI points account set up and that is down as well.


----------



## Braindead

dagger1 said:


> I can't access the "old" homepage.  Even using the link you attached I get the "new" homepage..


Same here. I think there is only one link to login.

I just went through a points audit a week before the migration trying to get my member numbers merged


----------



## asreiter

It's frustrating to see the automatic withdrawal out of my bank account for dues, I would love to send Wyndham an error page of "your account is not available at this time"


----------



## spackler

My monitor needs to be about 10 inches taller for this website to be remotely useful.


----------



## scootr5

spackler said:


> My monitor needs to be about 10 inches taller for this website to be remotely useful.









Here you go...


----------



## MaryBella7

dagger1 said:


> Yes, that's what I said to the "website counselor".  "Is 1,087,000 points considered large?"  She said:  "Oh yes!!  Some people only have 64,000 points!  I always thought 1M points were peanuts compared to the really large points owners...



One on the Facebook group says he has 240,000.   Not terribly large and account also not accessible.


----------



## Avislo

wed100105 said:


> I tried searching specific unit type for any dates at several resorts this morning and still can't see any availability.
> 
> I saw some availability at Williamsburg on Sunday night; now I see nothing.



Requested a reservation, at random, for Williamsburg.  The following is what showed up for the requested dates.

Managed By Wyndham




1 Bedroom Suite
VIP Benefits Apply

27,000 13,500 Points
_ MORE INFORMATION_

Details
BOOK


2 Bedroom Deluxe
VIP Benefits Apply

54,000 27,000 Points
_ MORE INFORMATION_

Details
BOOK


3 Bedroom Lockoff
VIP Benefits Apply

81,000 40,500 Points
_ MORE INFORMATION_

Details


----------



## Roger830

wed100105 said:


> I tried searching specific unit type for any dates at several resorts this morning and still can't see any availability.
> 
> I saw some availability at Williamsburg on Sunday night; now I see nothing.



I just checked Williamsburg for Sept 16 for 4 days and all 3 resorts have units.
Also the awkward calendar view shows units for other dates.


----------



## Deb from NC

lhumes7 said:


> One on the Facebook group says he has 240,000.   Not terribly large and account also not accessible.


I can't get in either...and I only have 400,000 points........


----------



## ilya

lhumes7 said:


> Pretty sure that quite a few of the people making reservations have more points than that.




That's what I told her as well.  The person I spoke to was really nice and went through my reservations as well.  The rentals are piling in on redweek...


Avislo said:


> Requested a reservation, at random, for Williamsburg.  The following is what showed up for the requested dates.
> 
> Managed By Wyndham
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 Bedroom Suite
> VIP Benefits Apply
> 
> 27,000 13,500 Points
> _ MORE INFORMATION_
> 
> Details
> BOOK
> 
> 
> 2 Bedroom Deluxe
> VIP Benefits Apply
> 
> 54,000 27,000 Points
> _ MORE INFORMATION_
> 
> Details
> BOOK
> 
> 
> 3 Bedroom Lockoff
> VIP Benefits Apply
> 
> 81,000 40,500 Points
> _ MORE INFORMATION_
> 
> Details




Can you look for june 26-30 2 bedroom with ability to upgrade from 1


----------



## 55plus

Have any of you who's account are frozen/suspended thought about having an attorney, or yourself for that matter, send a cease and desist letter to Wyndham. Have it spell out the damages you are experiencing by being unable to make a reservation that you have already paid for through points purchased and ongoing maintenance fees. If  you will lose points that already have or will expire while your account is suspended or if your are unable to make a reservation due to the website issue are considered damages. What would Wyndham Vacation Ownership do if they received thousands of certified letters from lawyers and irate owners?


----------



## buckor

dagger1 said:


> Has anybody who's account has been "not available..." been able to login yet?


No...just checked again and I still get the same message.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## buckor

Roger830 said:


> Those that can't login. Are you using the new or old link?
> 
> I login fine with the old link but not the new.
> 
> edited link to old prior to redirection 9:24am
> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/index.do


Just tried your link....same thing...account not available. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## bendadin

buckor said:


> No...just checked again and I still get the same message.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk



I was going through alphabetical order and if you can't get in, we are all sunk.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Kozman said:


> The last time I logged on the manual link 'check for upgrades' was missing.



It is not on the main page with the listing of unit types anymore, like it was in the old version.  You have to hit the book button to an available unit type, then in the next screen it will off you an upgrade if available, or tell you there isn't one.


----------



## Avislo

Patriot's Place for the date you asked about.

1 Bedroom Deluxe
VIP Benefits Apply
48,000 24,000 Points
_ MORE INFORMATION_
Details
BOOK
1 Bedroom Suite
VIP Benefits Apply
32,000 16,000 Points
_ MORE INFORMATION_
Details
BOOK
2 Bedroom Deluxe Lockoff
VIP Benefits Apply
80,000 40,000 Points
_ MORE INFORMATION_
Details
BOOK
Studio
VIP Benefits Apply
28,000 14,000 Points
_ MORE INFORMATION_
Details

Please make your upgrade selection (choose one):
UPGRADE NOW

Managed By Wyndham

2 Bedroom Deluxe Lockoff
VIP Benefits Apply


----------



## PeterS

I have been able to log in but the points tab seems to randomly appear and disappear and when it is there it links to a dead page...
Is anyone who can log in still having this issue?
Can you see your points balance?
Thanks


----------



## Sandy VDH

Roger830 said:


> When searching by resort and date, I get no availability.
> 
> When I use the availability calendar with a specific unit type, there are units all over the map, but it didn't show by the resort I was searching.
> 
> I hope that it's not functioning that way by intent.



I just did a date/resort and it is working for me

Try June 4-6 New Orleans.  If you get inventory, then maybe it is your search parameters somehow.


----------



## Sandy VDH

PeterS said:


> I have been able to log in but the points tab seems to randomly appear and disappear and when it is there it links to a dead page...
> Is anyone who can log in still having this issue?
> Can you see your points balance?
> Thanks



Points page is an issue. No one can see balances or transactions.  Its like leaving the keys with the inmates.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Braindead said:


> Same here. I think there is only one link to login.
> 
> I just went through a points audit a week before the migration trying to get my member numbers merged



There is NO old anymore,  the new site is now up at the URL the old site had.


----------



## buckor

bendadin said:


> I was going through alphabetical order and if you can't get in, we are all sunk.


If it is alphabetical order and I'm not in, yes, we all have some major problems!

I originally thought it might be that my account number starts with a 999, which I have been told is a resale identifier. Maybe I'm just not priority (though, I do have a small developer purchase I made last year so i can try out the VIP for a couple of years).

Now, after reading all the threads, I'm wondering if it is due to the amount of points I own....about 500k. However, it appears that some who are able to get into their accounts have more points than I do.

Then, i question the use year alignment they did on my account early last week. I did get things straightened out and credit pooled the "bonus" points I received for the realignment. Are they auditing my account because of that??!!

What is unfortunate is that there is absolutely no initiative on Wyndham's part to communicate what is going on. A banner saying my account is not available does not explain why it is not available....and leaving me to assume it is because of migration issues, etc, is the wrong way to handle the situation.

I enjoy my Wyndham vacations. However, seeing the issues over the last year and a half with audits and now this, I am rethinking my Wyndham strategy. 

I recently picked up a 2 bedroom fixed week at a resort I am close to and have been considering DVC. If this fiasco continues, I may be doing more posting with DVC in the near future and looking to exit my Wyndham contracts.

This is crazy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## Roger830

Sandy VDH said:


> I just did a date/resort and it is working for me
> 
> Try June 4-6 New Orleans.  If you get inventory, then maybe it is your search parameters somehow.



About 10 posts back I reported on Williamsburg where it then worked for me. Earlier it didn't work.


----------



## Soccer Canada

Must not be alphabetical or by number of points. I have a little over 300 000 pts and my last name is a "A" and I still get the "Your Account is Unavailable at this time" when I try and log in.. What a mess..


----------



## Braindead

buckor said:


> Then, i question the use year alignment they did on my account early last week. I did get things straightened out and credit pooled the "bonus" points I received for the realignment. Are they auditing my account because of that??!!


If that's the common link to the accounts that are frozen. WYNDHAMS INCOMPETENCE AGAIN. Many didn't ask for this. It was forced on them at the last second before the migration.

Mardi Gras has been discussed on Wyndham threads many times. Since the migration its been reported that there's availability for Mardi Gras. I wonder how many of the locked accounts would have liked a chance to go Mardi Gras for the first time only to be locked out by WYNDHAM


----------



## 55plus

I've been reading the posts and mentally compiling the data. I don't see a pattern or rhyme or reason for account suspensions. Originally I thought it was because of points being pooling and then used for rentals but I don't believe that is the case now. I'm waiting for my turd to float to the top and be snatched up by Wyndham for an audit.


----------



## Braindead

morrisjim said:


> Have any of you who's account are frozen/suspended thought about having an attorney, or yourself for that matter, send a cease and desist letter to Wyndham. Have it spell out the damages you are experiencing by being unable to make a reservation that you have already paid for through points purchased and ongoing maintenance fees. If  you will lose points that already have or will expire while your account is suspended or if your are unable to make a reservation due to the website issue are considered damages. What would Wyndham Vacation Ownership do if they received thousands of certified letters from lawyers and irate owners?


I sent a rescission letter when I was having trouble getting our accounts merged. I listed several reasons why I was rescinding. The main reason was I had signed documents that I purchased a permanent VIP Platinum account and had not received it in over 30 days. We ended up with 2 temporary Gold accounts after our purchases

I received a form letter that I was past the rescission period. No phone call. No follow up other than it got back to my salesman and he called to apologize and said he would see what he could do to help.

Nothing seems to get Wyndham attention till a lawsuit is actually filed or sales start to suffer.


----------



## Avislo

Wyndham Avenue Plaza was showing a few minutes ago for Feb 12, 2018 for 7 nights.  

2111 St. Charles Avenue
New Orleans, Louisiana 70130
504-566-1212


City


The Central Collection, CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Resort, CLUB WYNDHAM® Access Resort


Managed By Wyndham

1 Bedroom Suite
VIP Benefits Apply
140,000 Points
_ MORE INFORMATION_


----------



## averis

can someone direct me to where the point summary is located on new site? Have looked everywhere and can't find it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Roger830

averis said:


> can someone direct me to where the point summary is located on new site? Have looked everywhere and can't find it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It's been disabled for now.


----------



## cyseitz

spackler said:


> My monitor needs to be about 10 inches taller for this website to be remotely useful.


I agree!


----------



## cyseitz

cyseitz said:


> I agree!


What is the "old" link and "new" link?  I have been using myclubwyndham.com.


----------



## Braindead

Everyone should go to the owners update ASAP.  Make this great upgrade experience the 1 only topic you will discuss. Be a little louder than normal but not abnoxious so others can hear.

Sales and lawsuits are the only thing that gets Wyndhams attention


----------



## Sandy VDH

cyseitz said:


> What is the "old" link and "new" link?  I have been using myclubwyndham.com.



They are one in the same now.  When the site was in preview mode, that was before the name myclubwyn


----------



## bobdaz

Has anyone been able to
Login or get someone on the phone been trying for 2 days no luck


----------



## 55plus

averis said:


> can someone direct me to where the point summary is located on new site? Have looked everywhere and can't find it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You can backdoor checking you point balance by going through the reservation process and one of the steps you see your point balance and the amount of points the reservation will cost you. Back out or refresh your browser after that point. You don't have to complete the process.


----------



## Avislo

Some people can sign-in and get through to Wyndham.  This thread appears to be focusing on accounts that cannot log in for the time being.  A review of the thread will show different methods of contact with Wyndham.  If you cannot sign in, if you can get to the registration page or any other page to use the feedback button, that would be a start.  Not sure how effective the feedback button is.


----------



## 55plus

Braindead said:


> I sent a rescission letter when I was having trouble getting our accounts merged. I listed several reasons why I was rescinding. The main reason was I had signed documents that I purchased a permanent VIP Platinum account and had not received it in over 30 days. We ended up with 2 temporary Gold accounts after our purchases
> 
> I received a form letter that I was past the rescission period. No phone call. No follow up other than it got back to my salesman and he called to apologize and said he would see what he could do to help.
> 
> Nothing seems to get Wyndham attention till a lawsuit is actually filed or sales start to suffer.



Two legitimate VIP Gold Ownerships in the same name equals a VIP Platinum Ownership. That's just basic math. . .


----------



## buckor

Avislo said:


> Some people can sign-in and get through to Wyndham.  This thread appears to be focusing on accounts that cannot log in for the time being.  A review of the thread will show different methods of contact with Wyndham.  If you cannot sign in, if you can get to the registration page or any other page to use the feedback button, that would be a start.  Not sure how effective the feedback button is.


I cannot get the Feedback button to work...so I clicked on the FAQs link and sent an email...if that even works!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan M.

dagger1 said:


> Has anybody who's account has been "not available..." been able to login yet?



No. At no time have I been able to access my account since last Thursday!


----------



## joanncanary

PeterS said:


> I have been able to log in but the points tab seems to randomly appear and disappear and when it is there it links to a dead page...
> Is anyone who can log in still having this issue?
> Can you see your points balance?
> Thanks


I have not been able to get to my points balance since they came up. the tab is there sometimes and others, mostly now, is not anywhere to be found. And I don't have a large number of points. However they did just adjust my two contracts to have the same period of time.


----------



## sbthomas

morrisjim said:


> You can backdoor checking you point balance by going through the reservation process and one of the steps you see your point balance and the amount of points the reservation will cost you. Back out or refresh your browser after that point. You don't have to complete the process.



That no longer works either!  On Monday it showed how many points you had when you tried to book something.  Now it either lets you go ahead with the booking if you have enough points or tells you that you don't have enough points.  It does not tell you how many you are short.  Also - doesn't help if you have credit pooled points going out a few years!


----------



## 55plus

sbthomas said:


> That no longer works either!  On Monday it showed how many points you had when you tried to book something.  Now it either lets you go ahead with the booking if you have enough points or tells you that you don't have enough points.  It does not tell you how many you are short.  Also - doesn't help if you have credit pooled points going out a few years!



I booked Christmas week in Myrtle Beach this morning and was able to see my 2017 point balance prior to confirming the reservation.


----------



## needhelp

seascapemvy said:


> I still can't log in.  Are they blocking everyone who is not a VIP?  This is crazy being told my account is not available when lots of others can log on.


Im not VIP, but I did create a login when the preview page was up. 
Not sure if you are aware but you have to create a new login.


----------



## 55plus

Just think about the poor saps who spent tens of thousands of dollars with Wyndham in the last several week who can make a reservation online, etc., or speak to a vacation counselor in a timely manner.


----------



## Bill Chin

Anyone know how to view upgrades? This is probably the worst website redesigned upgrade I have ever encountered..... Confusing and cumbersome and addingextra unnecessary steps..... The previous was so much better, gave you a global view of everything. The old saying of, "if it's not broken, don't fix it."  applies here.


----------



## Avislo

A new banner for the new website just popped up.

"New Features Status
Please keep in the mind some of the new features and functionality may be temporarily unavailable over the next few days as we continue to upgrade your online experience. We appreciate your patience and understanding."

Upgrade options, if available, show up in the booking process.  If not available a box can be checked for the first available upgrade.


----------



## Braindead

morrisjim said:


> Two legitimate VIP Gold Ownerships in the same name equals a VIP Platinum Ownership. That's just basic math. . .


You are correct basic math. But not the same benefits as in point discounts. They refused to make both accounts Platinum until they completed the merger.

Now in the the new system you may not get the upgrade you should've have received being Platinum

Now being locked out I might be missing out on upgrades everyday


----------



## sbthomas

morrisjim said:


> I booked Christmas week in Myrtle Beach this morning and was able to see my 2017 point balance prior to confirming the reservation.



It does not show me points available when I book:


----------



## 55plus

Braindead said:


> You are correct basic math. But not the same benefits as in point discounts. They refused to make both accounts Platinum until they completed the merger.
> 
> Now in the the new system you may not get the upgrade you should've have received being Platinum
> 
> Now being locked out I might be missing out on upgrades everyday



What you described by not receiving to proper/correct benefits based on the number of points owned is considered damages. You have been damaged if upgrades were available and you weren't able to obtain them because of Wyndham's behavior. Good luck trying to get your sales weasel to do anything about it now. He/she got their commission and are out and about looking for a new mark. The new points should have been added to your existing membership at the point of sale.


----------



## 55plus

Wyndham's next money grab/revenue stream might be having owners to make a purchase in order to combine to merge two or more memberships into one.


----------



## rubbub

Avislo said:


> A new banner for the new website just popped up.
> 
> "New Features Status
> Please keep in the mind some of the new features and functionality may be temporarily unavailable over the next few days as we continue to upgrade your online experience. We appreciate your patience and understanding."
> 
> Upgrade options, if available, show up in the booking process.  If not available a box can be checked for the first available upgrade.



I'm looking forward to having my online experience upgraded to include a functional login feature.


----------



## staceyeileen

I just wish they would send out an email or something with the status of the upgrade.  I don't really have anything I need to do on my account that is time-sensitive so I'm ok to wait.  But I'd really like an ETA on when my account will be available again.  This is customer service 101.


----------



## Braindead

morrisjim said:


> Wyndham's next money grab/revenue stream might be having owners to make a purchase in order to combine to merge two or more memberships into one.


That was in my paperwork. Both purchases were made about a week apart. It was the sales staff that wanted us to have a new member number and do away with our 999 number. More detailed in my post in Thread Well That That's. My post is at the top of page 3 of the thread. It's been quite an experience


----------



## topcop400

"We can fix your account access if you make an additional purchase".


----------



## antjmar

morrisjim said:


> You can backdoor checking you point balance by going through the reservation process and one of the steps you see your point balance and the amount of points the reservation will cost you. Back out or refresh your browser after that point. You don't have to complete the process.


Also the deposit points to rci will show the balance.


----------



## staceyeileen

Braindead said:


> That was in my paperwork. Both purchases were made about a week apart. It was the sales staff that wanted us to have a new member number and do away with our 999 number. More detailed in my post in Thread Well That That's. My post is at the top of page 3 of the thread. It's been quite an experience



Maybe I'm missing something, but it's a pretty simple change to have owner services combine two member numbers into one. When I bought my 2nd resale contract a new member number was created for me, and it was literally about 10 minute on the phone to fix it.


----------



## antjmar

sbthomas said:


> It does not show me points available when I book:
> View attachment 3954


I booked a summer 2017 reservation last night.  It showed total available points. I checked balance via "deposit to RCI" link...
The reservation used some 2018 points!!! I have plenty of pooled points!


----------



## Braindead

staceyeileen said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but it's a pretty simple change to have owner services combine two member numbers into one. When I bought my 2nd resale contract a new member number was created for me, and it was literally about 10 minute on the phone to fix it.


Mine is going on 4 months and still not right.  I thought it's a pretty simple task also. It's taking a team they say to work on and complete mine.


----------



## seascapemvy

Bigrob said:


> It doesn't matter what link you use to get there, if your message upon login is "your account is unavailable at this time" then you cannot get in, in part because not all your data (reservations, points, etc.) have been correctly migrated to the new database. Rather than let us in and go nuts because the data are incorrect or missing, they are blocking access. My guess is that the decision to do that was made by leadership but not communicated timely to VCs so they gave misinformation (unintentionally) because they didn't have any other information to provide.
> 
> That being said, it is very frustrating. I have two reservations I need to add guest confirmations to that start Friday for Memorial Day weekend. My guests are understandably nervous that they can't verify the reservation is in their name.
> 
> I don't believe the 48 hours can be considered to have started yet. In my discussions, it was indicated that they understand that we can't add GC's to reservations, make reservations, or even cancel reservations (and neither can VCs on our behalf). In essence, we cannot use our memberships at all... There are lots of notes on my account and I created a spreadsheet of all my reservations in each member number prior to the cutover, so I'll know if anything is missing.
> 
> Oddly enough, they still have all the information available in the old system. So they could just do the load from the old system - except that some of the owners who have currently locked accounts made reservations or added guest confirmations after the rollout but before access was blocked to the VCs. For example, I called in to add a guest confirmation (after waiting about 2.5 hours) and got one added, but then the second one, about 30 minutes later, could not be added. So it is possible that during that call, they made the decision to lock the accounts down.


Thank you for letting me know how bad they messed up my account.  It is hard to believe they can screw up my small account.  I have 4 contracts and 3 reservations.  I hope they did not lose them because they were all there on both systems last week.  I am not looking forward to calling them later today but I will after work.  I am extremely upset at their total incompetence.


----------



## WyndhamBarter

FWIW I've been able to log in most days since Monday (except for the
Monday midnight to Tuesday 8am site downtime).

I've made a few test bookings (that I might actually use) and cancellations.

Except for only getting brief glimpses into my points balance (sometimes
during booking), the "enhanced" process is *kinda* working for me.

The most amusing possible exception in my case is that I've received
Email confirmations of all bookings and cancellations *except* one.

I successfully made a booking at The Donatello in July that now shows
up in My Reservations - but there was no confirming Email.  Till now(?)
I wasn't aware I could use Wyndham points to make a Donatello booking
even though I've heard about it being a Wyndham property for years.

Go figure.  I wonder if they'll actually let me check in come July...

My next fantasy is to actually ever see availability at Harbortown Point in Ventura.
That hasn't happened in almost ten years of ownership.


----------



## seascapemvy

Shocking.  I called and managed to speak to someone in just a few minutes.  The issue with my account is my points.  They are screwed up.  They actually say I have points that expire in September.  I dont have any.  I have some pooled points and a small amount of other points that expire at the end of 2018.  Then I have my full allotment of 2019 points.  This should have been an easy transfer since my account is small.  The one thing I am happy about is that thanks to TUG and Ron, I found out what the problem with my account was.


----------



## Jan M.

WyndhamBarter said:


> FWIW I've been able to log in most days since Monday (except for the
> Monday midnight to Tuesday 8am site downtime).



Bragger! Trying to make us jealous? 

Sorry I needed to laugh; better than being mad about something I have no control over.


----------



## seascapemvy

Jan M. said:


> Bragger! Trying to make us jealous?
> 
> Sorry I needed to laugh; better than being mad about something I have no control over.


I forgot to say above, they think all the problems will be resolved by Friday.  Ha Ha, I wish I believed that.


----------



## Sandy VDH

antjmar said:


> I booked a summer 2017 reservation last night.  It showed total available points. I checked balance via "deposit to RCI" link...
> The reservation used some 2018 points!!! I have plenty of pooled points!



If memory serves me correctly, pooled points can only be used within Wyndham, not transfered.  Check that in the 2014-15 directory.


----------



## MaryBella7

I did a private message to Club Wyndham on Facebook and have been waiting for their promised call since Monday.  Well, to their credit, they actually did call me!  That does not make this mess acceptable, but at least they did call without me having to sit on hold.  I was able to confirm all of my reservations and points and talk to the title department to have the spelling error fixed.  So at least I have that peace of mind.  Still unhappy that I cannot access the website that many others are able to access and am missing out on inventory, but at least I know my things aren't missing.  They are hoping for 48 hours.  I am not holding my breath.


----------



## breezez

If someone has answered....   Sorry for asking again, but exactly where do I click to see my points.   I can seem my contracts, but I don't see anything that allows me to see my various use year and credit pooled points.


----------



## Braindead

Others have stated that the only way to see your point status is to start the reservation process and when you see how many points is needed it will show how many points is available. Then get back out of booking process or book the reservation then cancel it. The points tab comes and goes.
Hope that helps but I and others haven't had that wonderful experience yet


----------



## rickandcindy23

Wyn is not letting me PIC my weeks for 2018 yet.  I need to do that.  

Sick of the incompetence of Wyndham, and after talking to the gal at Wyndham yesterday, it seems we are being singled out as a problem account.  She said almost everyone's accounts are apparently up and running.


----------



## ronparise

things are getting better. I only waited 1 hour and 45 minutes

The gal I talked to says the reason those of us that are not able to log on, is that our reservations have not yet been moved into the new system... and she said she could not do any transactions 


Im guessing that all that great availability everyone saw was there, because so many reservations werent yet in the new system.. If Im right there is gonna be another mess to fix


----------



## antjmar

Sandy VDH said:


> If memory serves me correctly, pooled points can only be used within Wyndham, not transfered.  Check that in the 2014-15 directory.


Thanks yes that's correct.
What I was trying to say is it used some of my 2018 points for a 2017 reservation. It really shouldn't have but I'm not going to waste 2 hours on the phone to try to correct it...


----------



## Cheryl20772

breezez said:


> If someone has answered....   Sorry for asking again, but exactly where do I click to see my points.   I can seem my contracts, but I don't see anything that allows me to see my various use year and credit pooled points.


There's no place to click. I haven't been able to see mine since new site launch. Some have reported that if you try making a reservation, or depositing to RCI, you might get to see your points during that process.


----------



## dagger1

lhumes7 said:


> I did a private message to Club Wyndham on Facebook and have been waiting for their promised call since Monday.  Well, to their credit, they actually did call me!  That does not make this mess acceptable, but at least they did call without me having to sit on hold.  I was able to confirm all of my reservations and points and talk to the title department to have the spelling error fixed.  So at least I have that peace of mind.  Still unhappy that I cannot access the website that many others are able to access and am missing out on inventory, but at least I know my things aren't missing.  They are hoping for 48 hours.  I am not holding my breath.


They verified all of my reservations earlier this morning as I described in an earlier post...  But my concern is not that my reservations don't show up today:  what if they don't show up, or are short, Friday (or whatever day I can finally login)??


----------



## breezez

I am just a little 406K resell point owner with two UDI contracts in one account...  Not VIP or anything, I had taken my 2016 Oct-2017 Sept Points and pooled last year and had a Sept 30, 2019 Expiration date for them.  I used 45K of them this year for a reservation this year in April.   I have not used any of my 2017 Oct-2018 Sept points.   But I tried your suggestions above.   It will show if booking I have 767K available points.   But doesn't show the expiration dates.   If I try to transfer to RCI it shows I have 0 Points for 2016-2017 Which it should since I pooled them.  But shows I have only 361K 2017-2018 points to move.   I have not used any of those points yet.   So the new system is trying to put the 45K points I used this April to my 2017Oct-2018 use year.  That is BS!

So you pro's should I worry or get on the phone to get it corrected?

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## happyhopian

I have two conversations to report on. I messaged Wyndham through Facebook yesterday and got a call back from Owner care today. Super nice guy. He said that the account not available is not an isolated issue and that it is affecting thousands of people. IT is aware of it, blah blah blah. He went over all my reservations but told me he could change nothing. He said if I needed to cancel anything and the 15 days passed they would cancel and return all points to me anyway. He said they took away the 48 hour rule because of the delays. He had no idea if and when that would be implemented until all this 'mess' (his words) gets resolved. He also said that they were still processing over reservations and accounts and that he didn't feel comfortable giving me any expectations based on the word earlier this week was hours, which is now days. I asked days more or weeks and he said he had no honest idea and didn't think anyone else did either.

The second phone call was to a resort where we have an upcomming reservation. They were PISSED. I talked to the guest services manager there whom I have a good relationship with. He said they were in regular contact early in the week but its been two days since anyone would return their call. They have been blacked out. No data on this weekend and there is NO inventory in the new system. They are going by the reservation logs they printed at the first of the week and they are awaiting a fix from Wyndham on what to do after monday. So this answers a few questions. YES there are resorts showing no inventory because something is wrong not because they are fully booked for the next year and second, we member databases are not the only ones impacted in this mess. This tells me they are putting out multiple fires and having to divide resources. Not good going into a holiday weekend.


----------



## Braindead

breezez said:


> I am just a little 406K resell point owner with two UDI contracts in one account...  Not VIP or anything, I had taken my 2016 Oct-2017 Sept Points and pooled last year and had a Sept 30, 2019 Expiration date for them.  I used 45K of them this year for a reservation this year in April.   I have not used any of my 2017 Oct-2018 Sept points.   But I tried your suggestions above.   It will show if booking I have 767K available points.   But doesn't show the expiration dates.   If I try to transfer to RCI it shows I have 0 Points for 2016-2017 Which it should since I pooled them.  But shows I have only 361K 2017-2018 points to move.   I have not used any of those points yet.   So the new system is trying to put the 45K points I used this April to my 2017Oct-2018 use year.  That is BS!
> 
> So you pro's should I worry or get on the phone to get it corrected?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


I would wait till all of us are able access our accounts. You call now your account might get locked and who knows when you would get access back.

Wait till next week at least. After happyhopian post. It might be weeks before you should call


----------



## Avislo

breezez said:


> I am just a little 406K resell point owner with two UDI contracts in one account...  Not VIP or anything, I had taken my 2016 Oct-2017 Sept Points and pooled last year and had a Sept 30, 2019 Expiration date for them.  I used 45K of them this year for a reservation this year in April.   I have not used any of my 2017 Oct-2018 Sept points.   But I tried your suggestions above.   It will show if booking I have 767K available points.   But doesn't show the expiration dates.   If I try to transfer to RCI it shows I have 0 Points for 2016-2017 Which it should since I pooled them.  But shows I have only 361K 2017-2018 points to move.   I have not used any of those points yet.   So the new system is trying to put the 45K points I used this April to my 2017Oct-2018 use year.  That is BS!
> 
> So you pro's should I worry or get on the phone to get it corrected?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve



Not a pro, however, what happened to you is consistent with one version of the pecking order that that I was told will be followed with the new system.  Current year points will be used before any credit pool points.  Another version is if a booking is made for a specific future year than that use year regular use year points will be used over the current use year.  I tested the latter.  I made a reservation for January 2018.  2018 use year points were used and when cancelled, the representative said they were returned to the 2018 regular use year pool.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> I have two conversations to report on. I messaged Wyndham through Facebook yesterday and got a call back from Owner care today. Super nice guy. He said that the account not available is not an isolated issue and that it is affecting thousands of people. IT is aware of it, blah blah blah. He went over all my reservations but told me he could change nothing. He said if I needed to cancel anything and the 15 days passed they would cancel and return all points to me anyway. He said they took away the 48 hour rule because of the delays. He had no idea if and when that would be implemented until all this 'mess' (his words) gets resolved. He also said that they were still processing over reservations and accounts and that he didn't feel comfortable giving me any expectations based on the word earlier this week was hours, which is now days. I asked days more or weeks and he said he had no honest idea and didn't think anyone else did either.
> 
> The second phone call was to a resort where we have an upcomming reservation. They were PISSED. I talked to the guest services manager there whom I have a good relationship with. He said they were in regular contact early in the week but its been two days since anyone would return their call. They have been blacked out. No data on this weekend and there is NO inventory in the new system. They are going by the reservation logs they printed at the first of the week and they are awaiting a fix from Wyndham on what to do after monday. So this answers a few questions. YES there are resorts showing no inventory because something is wrong not because they are fully booked for the next year and second, we member databases are not the only ones impacted in this mess. This tells me they are putting out multiple fires and having to divide resources. Not good going into a holiday weekend.


HEY WYNDHAM YOUR MESS IS ONLY GETTING BIGGER AND COMPOUNDING EVERY SECOND YOU LEAVE THE SITE LIVE. IT MIGHT BE BEST TO SHUT DOWN TILL YOU GET A REAL HANDLE ON THIS CATASTROPHE


----------



## jumoe

ronparise said:


> things are getting better. I only waited 1 hour and 45 minutes


I called the old number:   45 minutes.
I called the new number and did #3,#2 and...  on hold THREE minutes.   I was so shocked and so unprepared to provide the required info.  Member number - so glad I have the screenshots I took since i cannot log in to see my member number!!
What did I learn?
My account was not yet all transferred over, and try again in 48 hours.
I get the "account unavailable" message.
I check in tonight... and they insist my reservation exists.  Wish I could see it!


----------



## uscav8r

Roger830 said:


> I also get the new homepage, but it lets me login.
> The new link has the same look but I can't use it to login.
> 
> edit:
> The url is different for me with the old link, then it gets redirected which I then previously showed.
> 
> Old url
> https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/index.do



The old (but not that old) URL www.myclubwyndham.com works. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uscav8r

buckor said:


> I cannot get the Feedback button to work...so I clicked on the FAQs link and sent an email...if that even works!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk



I was able to use the feedback button on multiple occasions. It brings up a pop-up window so check your pop-up and/or ad blocker settings. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaryBella7

ronparise said:


> things are getting better. I only waited 1 hour and 45 minutes
> 
> The gal I talked to says the reason those of us that are not able to log on, is that our reservations have not yet been moved into the new system... and she said she could not do any transactions
> 
> 
> Im guessing that all that great availability everyone saw was there, because so many reservations werent yet in the new system.. If Im right there is gonna be another mess to fix



That's my guess.


----------



## wed100105

happyhopian said:


> I have two conversations to report on. I messaged Wyndham through Facebook yesterday and got a call back from Owner care today. Super nice guy. He said that the account not available is not an isolated issue and that it is affecting thousands of people. IT is aware of it, blah blah blah. He went over all my reservations but told me he could change nothing. He said if I needed to cancel anything and the 15 days passed they would cancel and return all points to me anyway. He said they took away the 48 hour rule because of the delays. He had no idea if and when that would be implemented until all this 'mess' (his words) gets resolved. He also said that they were still processing over reservations and accounts and that he didn't feel comfortable giving me any expectations based on the word earlier this week was hours, which is now days. I asked days more or weeks and he said he had no honest idea and didn't think anyone else did either.
> 
> The second phone call was to a resort where we have an upcomming reservation. They were PISSED. I talked to the guest services manager there whom I have a good relationship with. He said they were in regular contact early in the week but its been two days since anyone would return their call. They have been blacked out. No data on this weekend and there is NO inventory in the new system. They are going by the reservation logs they printed at the first of the week and they are awaiting a fix from Wyndham on what to do after monday. So this answers a few questions. YES there are resorts showing no inventory because something is wrong not because they are fully booked for the next year and second, we member databases are not the only ones impacted in this mess. This tells me they are putting out multiple fires and having to divide resources. Not good going into a holiday weekend.




What resort is this? I have 10 guests going to Glacier Canyon this week and next.


----------



## uscav8r

happyhopian said:


> I have two conversations to report on. I messaged Wyndham through Facebook yesterday and got a call back from Owner care today. Super nice guy. He said that the account not available is not an isolated issue and that it is affecting thousands of people. IT is aware of it, blah blah blah. He went over all my reservations but told me he could change nothing. He said if I needed to cancel anything and the 15 days passed they would cancel and return all points to me anyway. He said they took away the 48 hour rule because of the delays. He had no idea if and when that would be implemented until all this 'mess' (his words) gets resolved. He also said that they were still processing over reservations and accounts and that he didn't feel comfortable giving me any expectations based on the word earlier this week was hours, which is now days. I asked days more or weeks and he said he had no honest idea and didn't think anyone else did either.
> 
> The second phone call was to a resort where we have an upcomming reservation. They were PISSED. I talked to the guest services manager there whom I have a good relationship with. He said they were in regular contact early in the week but its been two days since anyone would return their call. They have been blacked out. No data on this weekend and there is NO inventory in the new system. They are going by the reservation logs they printed at the first of the week and they are awaiting a fix from Wyndham on what to do after monday. So this answers a few questions. YES there are resorts showing no inventory because something is wrong not because they are fully booked for the next year and second, we member databases are not the only ones impacted in this mess. This tells me they are putting out multiple fires and having to divide resources. Not good going into a holiday weekend.



I was wondering why some lesser demand resorts appeared fully booked through December. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan M.

Anyone still want to debate my earlier assessment of the new system being FUBAR now? 

I noticed that in the current definition of that term the BAR now stands for beyond all reason or recognition. My husband is a former Navy nuke, 1968-1974, and when they used the term BAR meant beyond all repair. Not sure which best applies to the new Wyndham system.


----------



## ecwinch

wed100105 said:


> What resort is this? I have 10 guests going to Glacier Canyon this week and next.



That is when the fecal matter will hit the oscillating rotor. When the "enhanced vacation experience" results in them having to walk guests. All signs indicate that is likely in the near term. If resorts are in fact working off what they printed at the first of the week aka "screenshots", how likely is it that someone cancelled a reservation off the printed log and someone rebooked. It calls into question all reservations booked since the change-over.

They can write-off the functionality complaints as "people dont like change", and "its something we can fix in phase 2", but data integrity issues are a game changer.


----------



## cyseitz

This website could not be less user-friendly!


----------



## MaryBella7

When Wes at the FB group complains, you know it's bad!  He keeps EVERYTHING Wyndham positive over there!  He's even had it!


----------



## Braindead

I won !! I won !! $500.00 Sweepstakes for pre registering on the pre view site.
I love Wyndham XOXOXOXO.  Ha Ha Ha Ha 

But I did actually win !!


----------



## paxsarah

lhumes7 said:


> When Wes at the FB group complains, you know it's bad!  He keeps EVERYTHING Wyndham positive over there!  He's even had it!



Exactly my thought - I literally laughed out loud when I read his post over there. Not a good look for Wyndham, for sure.


----------



## vacationhopeful

I wonder how many people have no money in the accounts for Wyndham to take to pay MFs for their accounts. 

NO ACCESS for owners ... NO MONEY for Wyndham.


----------



## CCdad

rickandcindy23 said:


> Wyn is not letting me PIC my weeks for 2018 yet.  I need to do that.
> 
> Sick of the incompetence of Wyndham, and after talking to the gal at Wyndham yesterday, it seems we are being singled out as a problem account.  She said almost everyone's accounts are apparently up and running.



Cindy,

That's total BS. They've failed to transfer accounts big and small, VIP developer purchased and resale contracts alike. 

Suggesting that they're "auditing" some accounts to make sure things will be correct when migrated is a poor excuse to pass off what's truly an IT disaster. Start with the easy accounts and please make daily progress, starting with those accounts with log in credentials and near term reservations.

And for owners that have no idea that they don't have online account access because they aren't email & computer literate - ignorance is bliss.


----------



## bendadin

Braindead said:


> I won !! I won !! $500.00 Sweepstakes for pre registering on the pre view site.
> I love Wyndham XOXOXOXO.  Ha Ha Ha Ha
> 
> But I did actually win !!



NO WAY!!!!


----------



## happyhopian

Avislo said:


> Not a pro, however, what happened to you is consistent with one version of the pecking order that that I was told will be followed with the new system.  Current year points will be used before any credit pool points.  Another version is if a booking is made for a specific future year than that use year regular use year points will be used over the current use year.  I tested the latter.  I made a reservation for January 2018.  2018 use year points were used and when cancelled, the representative said they were returned to the 2018 regular use year pool.


I was told that we could set a priority of or actually choose which bucket of points we used to pay for a reservation in the new system. Has anyone seen this option?


----------



## happyhopian

Jan M. said:


> Anyone still want to debate my earlier assessment of the new system being FUBAR now?
> 
> I noticed that in the current definition of that term the BAR now stands for beyond all reason or recognition. My husband is a former Navy nuke, 1968-1974, and when they used the term BAR meant beyond all repair. Not sure which best applies to the new Wyndham system.


You know who hasn't said a word this week.. coskier. He was so happy about some playing field leveling I would love to know if you are still happy about what has been done? Opinion Coskier?


----------



## Braindead

bendadin said:


> NO WAY!!!!


I guess there's four $500.00 winners and one $2,500.00 Grand Prize

I never even new there was a sweepstakes for pre registering


----------



## bendadin

Braindead said:


> I guess there's four $500.00 winners and one $2,500.00 Grand Prize
> 
> I never even new there was a sweepstakes for pre registering


 
WooHoo!!

Congratulations!!


----------



## scootr5

happyhopian said:


> I was told that we could set a priority of or actually choose which bucket of points we used to pay for a reservation in the new system. Has anyone seen this option?



Wouldn't we have to actually be able to _see _our points to do that?


----------



## am1

lhumes7 said:


> When Wes at the FB group complains, you know it's bad!  He keeps EVERYTHING Wyndham positive over there!  He's even had it!



Maybe he will ban himself.  No matter the past I am happy he has seen the light.


----------



## scootr5

happyhopian said:


> You know who hasn't said a word this week.. coskier. He was so happy about some playing field leveling I would love to know if you are still happy about what has been done? Opinion Coskier?



It looks like he hasn't been on the board since Sunday night.


----------



## Cxt333

Has anyone been able to book 13 months out?  Using their ARP option


----------



## traveldaddy

Jan M. said:


> Anyone still want to debate my earlier assessment of the new system being FUBAR now?
> 
> I noticed that in the current definition of that term the BAR now stands for beyond all reason or recognition. My husband is a former Navy nuke, 1968-1974, and when they used the term BAR meant beyond all repair. Not sure which best applies to the new Wyndham system.



I guess Wyn keeps setting the BAR higher and higher, eh?


Sorry....couldn't resist


----------



## traveldaddy

Cxt333 said:


> Has anyone been able to book 13 months out?  Using their ARP option



I looked at an ARP reservation for MB. It looked like I could book June, went almost all the way through, but didn't want that time period, so did not complete. Seems it would have worked, if that helps.


----------



## Cxt333

traveldaddy said:


> I looked at an ARP reservation for MB. It looked like I could book June, went almost all the way through, but didn't want that time period, so did not complete. Seems it would have worked, if that helps.


Thanks.  When I try stuff over 10 months tells me to change the dates.  I really did not want to have to sit on hold. I was hoping this was going to be one thing I wanted to work for me.


----------



## traveldaddy

Does anyone have any idea if (or when) we will be able to trust the system?

I'm a small account, booking for personal use. There's a bunch of stuff showing as available, but can we really rely on the system? What happens if you book a unit, get a confirmation and then schedule time off, get friends or family to do the same and then Wyndham comes calling about a conflict???? I want to snag something for the summer, but not sure if Wyndham will have this figured out by then (and I am referring to 2017 summer btw!)

FWIW - I just cancelled a reservation due to a scheduling conflict from family. Points did not go back properly......can't make sense of the before vs after given what I cancelled and previous balance. I did check the transfer process when new system went live and everything looks okay, other than they dropped some HK credits from credit pool. I was wiling to let the HK credits slide to not have to wait as long on phone as others have reporting here. Alas, Wyndham has gotten to me as well........so looking forward to the long phone call......NOT!


----------



## planzfortomorrow

I had trouble with the pre-registration.  I'd registered, and was able to log in, got e-mail notice etc. then when I went to log in later it kept giving me the no access error.  So I re-registered, with the exact same user name/password I'd previously set up--I figured I'd get an error message, but didn't.  I think the issue was my member #... it needed 2 zeros before my 999XXXXXX member number.  Haven't had any issues since then, and have been able to log onto the new site just fine.

So for anyone that doesn't currently have access, maybe you can try to re-register for the site???


----------



## Braindead

traveldaddy said:


> Does anyone have any idea if (or when) we will be able to trust the system?
> 
> I'm a small account, booking for personal use. There's a bunch of stuff showing as available, but can we really rely on the system? What happens if you book a unit, get a confirmation and then schedule time off, get friends or family to do the same and then Wyndham comes calling about a conflict???? I want to snag something for the summer, but not sure if Wyndham will have this figured out by then (and I am referring to 2017 summer btw!)
> 
> FWIW - I just cancelled a reservation due to a scheduling conflict from family. Points did not go back properly......can't make sense of the before vs after given what I cancelled and previous balance. I did check the transfer process when new system went live and everything looks okay, other than they dropped some HK credits from credit pool. I was wiling to let the HK credits slide to not have to wait as long on phone as others have reporting here. Alas, Wyndham has gotten to me as well........so looking forward to the long phone call......NOT!


Wyndham has let this get so far out of control. I can't imagine what's going to happen this weekend if a lot of resorts are double booked. Not saying that's happened but it's safe to say nobody knows including Wyndham at this point.

 Personally I think the  audits and suspensions that are 9 months old was peanuts in size compared to the current situation. If they don't get this situation under control I can envision them abandoning all transactions this week and still go back to the old site. Nobody can answer your question!!


----------



## Avislo

Trust the choice to book for Summer 2017 if it lets you.  There is no other safe alternative.


----------



## Braindead

Avislo said:


> Trust the choice to book for Summer 2017 if it lets you.  There is no other safe alternative.


Sure go ahead. The coast looks clear. Only sunny skies ahead.
REALLY


----------



## Jan M.

traveldaddy said:


> What happens if you book a unit, get a confirmation and then schedule time off, get friends or family to do the same and then Wyndham comes calling about a conflict????



I have wondered that same thing. The correct protocol to follow should be that any reservations owners made prior to 5/19 that were lost in the migration get reinstated. I hope anyone who lost reservations can prove from screen shots taken prior to the new system and/or emailed confirmations from Wyndham that they had those reservations.

Anyone who rents or is wanting to make firm plans for reservations they made when they were able to access the system this week, especially on Sunday and Monday, should be very cautious. From the various posts over the last several years we know that there are plenty of owners who have had reservations cancelled by Wyndham in the past.

I have to say that I fully expected there to be some issues, hiccups, etc. with the change over to the new system but I never expected it to be this bad even though OP with IT backgrounds pretty much predicted it would be bad.


----------



## Pietin

Thought the new systems was going to be 24 hours?  Site says down for maintenance.


----------



## jumoe

Well, I got checked in.
Thought I would share a couple things (if they are accurate....?)
The front desk staff will still use their "greenscreen" systems - just how they receive the reservations will be different.
The parking pass staff didn't pressure me at all - only staying 2 nights and heading 90 minutes away early tomorrow... but they did tell me that "if I want my account unlocked sooner I have to go to the owner update and sit with the owner services people and they will go through my account and show it to me and get my account to the top of the 'convert' list.   Only those that have been to owner updates have been 'converted'."  I asked him how my "sister" got logged in then when she hadn't stayed at Wyndham in over 8 months.   His answer?   "I don't know how they created the list but if you go to the update you will get access to your account right then.".  Hm... hopefully I will just get access soon like everyone else locked out....


----------



## ecwinch

Braindead said:


> I won !! I won !! $500.00 Sweepstakes for pre registering on the pre view site.
> I love Wyndham XOXOXOXO.  Ha Ha Ha Ha
> 
> But I did actually win !!


Might be another IT screwup. 

Congrats!


----------



## uscav8r

jumoe said:


> Well, I got checked in.
> Thought I would share a couple things (if they are accurate....?)
> The front desk staff will still use their "greenscreen" systems - just how they receive the reservations will be different.
> The parking pass staff didn't pressure me at all - only staying 2 nights and heading 90 minutes away early tomorrow... but they did tell me that "if I want my account unlocked sooner I have to go to the owner update and sit with the owner services people and they will go through my account and show it to me and get my account to the top of the 'convert' list.   Only those that have been to owner updates have been 'converted'."  I asked him how my "sister" got logged in then when she hadn't stayed at Wyndham in over 8 months.   His answer?   "I don't know how they created the list but if you go to the update you will get access to your account right then.".  Hm... hopefully I will just get access soon like everyone else locked out....



That BS flag is flying proudly at the top of that pole!

I haven't been to a Wyndham resort in months and I have full, accurate access, at least as far as the working functions of the overall site go. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vacationhopeful

Don't make plans to spend that $500 check til comes it in the mail .... and wait 30 days after depositing the check before spending the money .... Wyndham may decide you aren't the_ that_ winner.

Logic: All the overbooked resorts for Prime vacation stays ... those inbound guests will be losers.


----------



## sandkastle4966

I am tired of looking......I swear I have tried every screen.....

where is my point status????   Successfully book a ressie - but can't find my total points remaining....

TIA


----------



## Avislo

Pietin said:


> Thought the new systems was going to be 24 hours?  Site says down for maintenance.



Site is up at this point.

Best way to get the up to date point status showing on the new system is to call in for it.


----------



## happyhopian

sandkastle4966 said:


> I am tired of looking......I swear I have tried every screen.....
> 
> where is my point status????   Successfully book a ressie - but can't find my total points remaining....
> 
> TIA


go to RCI point deposit and it will tell you what your point balance is. It has a warning that it will not deposit points as it is not working but the screen will display the point balance. My Ownership-Exhanges-deposit your points into rci


----------



## Braindead

What purpose did the Preview Site serve ?  The migration of our info was already done. Aren't we using what was the preview site?
1. All contracts and owners were correct
2. Points were correct and on one page spreadsheet. Just like the old site
3. Reservations were all there and correct

Why was Wyndham telling us it was so important to check the Preview Site to make sure all of our info was correct ? Now our info meant nothing after the shutdown ?

Wasn't the only migration that was needed is anything and everything about availability and making reservations ?

They could do rolling audits all year without us owners even knowing.

Linda  It's a $500.00 AMEX card and they are sending me a 1099


----------



## Braindead

Another day. Same result. Your account not available

Anybody get logged in that couldn't yesterday? If this was audit related some should be getting released along the way


----------



## MaryBella7

Braindead said:


> Another day. Same result. Your account not available
> 
> Anybody get logged in that couldn't yesterday? If this was audit related some should be getting released along the way



No, and I have a sneaking suspicion it is because somehow, when they moved my use year, I got 346,000 points expiring June 30 (I saw these on Saturday).  I will be very angry if they are waiting out those points expiring, because that will prevent me from making an important reservation I need.


----------



## Deb from NC

Braindead said:


> Another day. Same result. Your account not available
> 
> Anybody get logged in that couldn't yesterday? If this was audit related some should be getting released along the way


Nope, I still can't get in.......


----------



## rubbub

Braindead said:


> Another day. Same result. Your account not available
> 
> Anybody get logged in that couldn't yesterday? If this was audit related some should be getting released along the way



Same here.


----------



## Sandi Bo

lhumes7 said:


> No, and I have a sneaking suspicion it is beca
> use somehow, when they moved my use year, I got 346,000 points expiring June 30 (I saw these on Saturday).  I will be very angry if they are waiting out those points expiring, because that will prevent me from making an important reservation I need.


 
Maybe you are on to something.  I have one contract with a June 30 use year (all others are Dec 31) that THEY failed to realign, although I was discussing as recently as the week of the conversion (and that contract realignment still hadn't happened).

We all know the incompetent/flawed attempts WYN has made to align use years over the past 4-5 years.  And we've often pondered if it was in preparation for voyager (presuming voyager would not be able to support multiple use years). 

FWIW - I do not believe this is 7 years worth of work.  I understand we've been talking about Voyager that long. I think Voyager was started, failed, tossed, started over, shelfed, resurrected, trashed again..  And that what we're seeing is a year or less of development work, with requirements never well defined, changed (we know the Aug/Sep audits affected what was delivered). Slammed in, met someone's deadline, piece of crap.

Any IT professional knows this was a recipe for disaster.  Who brings online a system, and begins transacting, when they aren't completely done with their data conversions, having fully validated the data nor the system they are rolling out?  

This is so unacceptable.  And now we are reliant on an obviously incompetent IT department which appears to have not accountability/responsibility to management to fix it? 

They have got to stop transacting on this new system until they have things figured out.  How in the world are they ever going to fix it?


----------



## vacationhopeful

Ever met a marketing or sales 'professional' who thought he could sell ice to an eskimo and told you how successful he was?

Is that Wyndham's IT staff's self image?


----------



## dagger1

Braindead said:


> Another day. Same result. Your account not available
> 
> Anybody get logged in that couldn't yesterday? If this was audit related some should be getting released along the way


"Your account is not available at this time"....


----------



## comicbookman

Sandi Bo said:


> Maybe you are on to something.  I have one contract with a June 30 use year (all others are Dec 31) that THEY failed to realign, although I was discussing as recently as the week of the conversion (and that contract realignment still hadn't happened).
> 
> We all know the incompetent/flawed attempts WYN has made to align use years over the past 4-5 years.  And we've often pondered if it was in preparation for voyager (presuming voyager would not be able to support multiple use years).
> 
> FWIW - I do not believe this is 7 years worth of work.  I understand we've been talking about Voyager that long. I think Voyager was started, failed, tossed, started over, shelfed, resurrected, trashed again..  And that what we're seeing is a year or less of development work, with requirements never well defined, changed (we know the Aug/Sep audits affected what was delivered). Slammed in, met someone's deadline, piece of crap.
> 
> Any IT professional knows this was a recipe for disaster.  Who brings online a system, and begins transacting, when they aren't completely done with their data conversions, having fully validated the data nor the system they are rolling out?
> 
> This is so unacceptable.  And now we are reliant on an obviously incompetent IT department which appears to have not accountability/responsibility to management to fix it?
> 
> They have got to stop transacting on this new system until they have things figured out.  How in the world are they ever going to fix it?



I would not be surprised if the overmatched Wyndham IT department is not actually to blame for the beginning of this mess.  This looks more like the work of a "consulting" company trying to meet deadlines and then dumping a piece of crap on the already inadequate IT department.  Having lived through that a couple of times this has all the hallmarks.  Go live without full data checking, 2 different teams working on the problems, shifting excuses and a stubborn refusual to take the system down until it works correctly.  Just my 25 year IT professional 2 cents.


----------



## Braindead

Sandi Bo said:


> Maybe you are on to something.  I have one contract with a June 30 use year (all others are Dec 31) that THEY failed to realign, although I was discussing as recently as the week of the conversion (and that contract realignment still hadn't happened).
> 
> We all know the incompetent/flawed attempts WYN has made to align use years over the past 4-5 years.  And we've often pondered if it was in preparation for voyager (presuming voyager would not be able to support multiple use years).
> 
> FWIW - I do not believe this is 7 years worth of work.  I understand we've been talking about Voyager that long. I think Voyager was started, failed, tossed, started over, shelfed, resurrected, trashed again..  And that what we're seeing is a year or less of development work, with requirements never well defined, changed (we know the Aug/Sep audits affected what was delivered). Slammed in, met someone's deadline, piece of crap.
> 
> Any IT professional knows this was a recipe for disaster.  Who brings online a system, and begins transacting, when they aren't completely done with their data conversions, having fully validated the data nor the system they are rolling out?
> 
> This is so unacceptable.  And now we are reliant on an obviously incompetent IT department which appears to have not accountability/responsibility to management to fix it?
> 
> They have got to stop transacting on this new system until they have things figured out.  How in the world are they ever going to fix it?


I also think this about those last minute realignments. For example
You had a 500,000 point contract with a use yr. ending 6-30 and between credit pooling- reservations you used all the points.
Then they realigned that use yr. 12-31 and add 250,000 points your account your prorated amount for 6 mo.

What they are calling audits is they are trying to figure out if you should get those 250,000 points.

They locked our accounts while auditing themselves. That great special department they created to realign use yrs.  
Is what they are auditing


----------



## Braindead

Sandi Bo or others with IT experience have any comments on questions I thru out ther in post 589


----------



## 55plus

Braindead said:


> Another day. Same result. Your account not available
> 
> Anybody get logged in that couldn't yesterday? If this was audit related some should be getting released along the way



How long before the ongoing audit becomes harassment? Because of the length of the audit, I think a cease and desist letter to Wyndham is well deserved. It also sets up a paper trail and puts Wyndham on notice in case further action is needed.


----------



## ilya

rickandcindy23 said:


> Wyn is not letting me PIC my weeks for 2018 yet.  I need to do that.
> 
> Sick of the incompetence of Wyndham, and after talking to the gal at Wyndham yesterday, it seems we are being singled out as a problem account.  She said almost everyone's accounts are apparently up and running.[/QU





Braindead said:


> Another day. Same result. Your account not available
> 
> Anybody get logged in that couldn't yesterday? If this was audit related some should be getting released along the way




Me neither. I was told today that resetting the password may help because the system scrambled peoples password. Anyone get that excuse yet.?


----------



## ilya

morrisjim said:


> How long before the ongoing audit becomes harassment? Because of the length of the audit, I think a cease and desist letter to Wyndham is well deserved. It also sets up a paper trail and puts Wyndham on notice in case further action is needed.




Why not  start a protest in front of Wyndhams resorts?


----------



## 55plus

Braindead said:


> I also think this about those last minute realignments. For example
> You had a 500,000 point contract with a use yr. ending 6-30 and between credit pooling- reservations you used all the points.
> Then they realigned that use yr. 12-31 and add 250,000 points your account your prorated amount for 6 mo.
> 
> What they are calling audits is they are trying to figure out if you should get those 250,000 points.
> 
> They locked our accounts while auditing themselves. That great special department they created to realign use yrs.
> Is what they are auditing



This may have started out as an audit. With all the points deeded to all the owners at all the different resorts compiled with all the owner contracts, all the members numbers and VIP discounted points used, etc., I believe it's now out of control. I don't how an algorithm can sort through all of this. If it's now a manual audit of all suspended accounts, good luck. It is possible data was lost or corrupted during the audit.


----------



## 55plus

ilya said:


> Why not  start a protest in front of Wyndhams resorts?



If you can access your points you can stay at a resort if you come from are out of state to protest.


----------



## 55plus

ilya said:


> Me neither. I was told today that resetting the password may help because the system scrambled peoples password. Anyone get that excuse yet.?



It looks like the vacation counselors are taking a page from the sales weasels playbook. The chapter on Lying. . .


----------



## bendadin

ilya said:


> Me neither. I was told today that resetting the password may help because the system scrambled peoples password. Anyone get that excuse yet.?



I called in with the 3 then 2 method and got right through.

I got the "the name needs to be a perfect match as to what is on the deed." It didn't work. I changed my password. It didn't work. I try to re-register and it tells me that I already have an account. 

I have a lowly, resale only account with 3 contracts in there (albeit one of them is an affiliate) with two even year contracts and one annual. I have a one week 2 bdrm deluxe reservation in my own name. This is a small potatoes account and it is still showing as unavailable.


----------



## Avislo

Sandi Bo said:


> Maybe you are on to something.  I have one contract with a June 30 use year (all others are Dec 31) that THEY failed to realign, although I was discussing as recently as the week of the conversion (and that contract realignment still hadn't happened) ...
> 
> They have got to stop transacting on this new system until they have things figured out.  How in the world are they ever going to fix it?



The summer months are now pretty much within the 90 day window of check-in date.  There would be no point not taking reservations from anyone


----------



## Braindead

Avislo said:


> The summer months are now pretty much within the 90 day window of check-in date.  There would be no point not taking reservations from anyone


Are you advocating leaving owners out in the cold that already had their summer vacations booked ? Go ahead and book in hopes you take somebody elses reservation they had for months or a year even ARPed ?
HOW NICE OF YOU!! How do you sleep at night ?


----------



## ilya

Avislo said:


> The summer months are now pretty much within the 90 day window of check-in date.  There would be no point not taking reservations from anyone



What is left in the summer to book?? B the time we get on there will be nothing..


----------



## Braindead

Braindead said:


> Are you advocating leaving owners out in the cold that already had their summer vacations booked ? Go ahead and book in hopes you take somebody elses reservation they had for months or a year even ARPed ?
> HOW NICE OF YOU!! How do you sleep at night ?


This might get reported as an attack
But really Robert
I hope I misinterpreted your post. If I did I apologize


----------



## CO skier

happyhopian said:


> You know who hasn't said a word this week.. coskier. He was so happy about some playing field leveling I would love to know if you are still happy about what has been done? Opinion Coskier?



It is nice to be missed.

I did not read where anyone last week was predicting a smooth transition to Voyager. This is what I wrote last Thursday


CO skier said:


> I have the same feeling I get when the rollercoaster first latches onto the tow chain.  It will be a 3-day climb to the top and then ...




The snow stake at Copper Mountain measures up to 24 inches of snow. The ski area is closed, but the camera is still in operation, and a time lapse is available. On the 18th, the entire snow stake was buried in less than 12 hours.

When the going gets tough, the tough go skiing for a few days at 11,000 feet in Colorado. 3 more inches of powder on Berthoud Pass the morning of May 23rd! No one there, and I carved my name down the shining slope all morning long. An endless, unbelievable snow season.


I have to say the skiing was more thrilling than the changeover to Voyager. Those who use Club Wyndham as a commercial business and do not ski, probably have a different perspective. I am sure they and a multitude of other owners think Voyager is unbelievable.

Somewhere back in this thread or another thread, my bet was that there would be an announcement declaring Voyager operational and reminding owners to put duplicate reservations in guest name(s) within 48 hours. That was obviously overly optimistic. (Still possible to win the bet, though highly unlikely at this point, because I doubt there will be an official announcement of any kind.) In hindsight, even the most pessimistic bets were overly optimistic.

My opinion, if it matters to anyone, is that Club Wyndham should be as fair as possible for all owners. The new 48 hour guest certificate rule means make a reservation for a guest, or pay the penalty – either automatic cancellation or an extra GC. The new guidelines eliminate the ability to strip and credit pool future points from contracts, use the points for current reservations, then sell the stripped contracts. Owners will love the ability to book ARP reservations online. Cancel/Rebook/Upgrade was an unfair manipulation of the Club’s privileges. That manipulation is restricted in Voyager. imo, Voyager is a one way, screaming rollercoaster ride – there is no reverse to take us back to the old system. (Imagine trying to export the current mess back into the old system, then proceeding from there! Might as well clean up the current mess in the new reservation system.)

The implementation of Voyager has created a different unfairness; some owners have access while others do not. This is sure to be rectified at some point, but I have no idea if it will be before the end of the week or sometime before the end of the year. Wyndham appears to be extra cautious about being burned, again.

My next vacation is this weekend with WorldMark. I do not anticipate any difficulties. The recent changes in WorldMark to curtail the megarenter activity proved less volatile and more successful than the changes Voyager brings to Club Wyndham. My hope is that V’ger never enters the WorldMark planetary system.


----------



## Avislo

The computer problems are real.  For what ever reason(s) Wyndham is not using their override authorities to permit everyone to make reservations.  It would be nice if they did.  However, someone booking a available reservations is not taking anything from anyone.


----------



## Braindead

Avislo said:


> The computer problems are real.  For what ever reason(s) Wyndham is not using their override authorities to permit everyone to make reservations.  It would be nice if they did.  However, someone booking a available reservations is not taking anything from anyone.


How do you know this as fact ?
Is it that inside contact you have named Robert ?
One of us might get banned. Just hope it's not me !!


----------



## Avislo

"How do you know this as fact ? 
Is it that inside contact you have named Robert ?"


From personal experience.  The personal attacks do not change realities.  I am not decision maker for Wyndham.  I do not have inside contacts.  Anyone is free to contact Wyndham and get information.  The reason damage to my account is minimal, at this point, is that I spent a lot of time over an extended period of time working with Wyndham's various departments during the preview stage of the roll-out to correct the data base as it relates to me and this process is still not done.  The reality is I may have to live with what has happened to.


----------



## Soccer Canada

I got straight through on the phone. The VC can see all my points and such (which I guess is a good thing). Same 24-48 hour for accounts to be working, she stated it was a "known defect" and was affecting many owners. They are working on it


----------



## scootr5

CO skier said:


> My hope is that V’ger never enters the WorldMark planetary system.



Well, it shouldn't hit until 2273


----------



## CO skier

scootr5 said:


> Well, it shouldn't hit until 2273


Fingers crossed.


----------



## dagger1

CO skier said:


> It is nice to be missed.
> 
> I did not read where anyone last week was predicting a smooth transition to Voyager. This is what I wrote last Thursday
> 
> 
> 
> The snow stake at Copper Mountain measures up to 24 inches of snow. The ski area is closed, but the camera is still in operation, and a time lapse is available. On the 18th, the entire snow stake was buried in less than 12 hours.
> 
> When the going gets tough, the tough go skiing for a few days at 11,000 feet in Colorado. 3 more inches of powder on Berthoud Pass the morning of May 23rd! No one there, and I carved my name down the shining slope all morning long. An endless, unbelievable snow season.
> 
> 
> I have to say the skiing was more thrilling than the changeover to Voyager. Those who use Club Wyndham as a commercial business and do not ski, probably have a different perspective. I am sure they and a multitude of other owners think Voyager is unbelievable.
> 
> Somewhere back in this thread or another thread, my bet was that there would be an announcement declaring Voyager operational and reminding owners to put duplicate reservations in guest name(s) within 48 hours. That was obviously overly optimistic. (Still possible to win the bet, though highly unlikely at this point, because I doubt there will be an official announcement of any kind.) In hindsight, even the most pessimistic bets were overly optimistic.
> 
> My opinion, if it matters to anyone, is that Club Wyndham should be as fair as possible for all owners. The new 48 hour guest certificate rule means make a reservation for a guest, or pay the penalty – either automatic cancellation or an extra GC. The new guidelines eliminate the ability to strip and credit pool future points from contracts, use the points for current reservations, then sell the stripped contracts. Owners will love the ability to book ARP reservations online. Cancel/Rebook/Upgrade was an unfair manipulation of the Club’s privileges. That manipulation is restricted in Voyager. imo, Voyager is a one way, screaming rollercoaster ride – there is no reverse to take us back to the old system. (Imagine trying to export the current mess back into the old system, then proceeding from there! Might as well clean up the current mess in the new reservation system.)
> 
> The implementation of Voyager has created a different unfairness; some owners have access while others do not. This is sure to be rectified at some point, but I have no idea if it will be before the end of the week or sometime before the end of the year. Wyndham appears to be extra cautious about being burned, again.
> 
> My next vacation is this weekend with WorldMark. I do not anticipate any difficulties. The recent changes in WorldMark to curtail the megarenter activity proved less volatile and more successful than the changes Voyager brings to Club Wyndham. My hope is that V’ger never enters the WorldMark planetary system.


CO skier, we are headed your way Saturday!  Man, am I ready for the mountains!  We spend   7-10 days every summer in Breckenridge.  Will be in Vail all of next week.  On a "skiing" note, pardon the offthread question, what is your favorite winter ski town in Colorado?  We are considering buying a fixed ski week up there.  What are the "best" ski weeks in your opinion, we would like to avoid the "out of school" crowds.  Thanks and pardon the off thread question, all!


----------



## dagger1

Soccer Canada said:


> I got straight through on the phone. The VC can see all my points and such (which I guess is a good thing). Same 24-48 hour for accounts to be working, she stated it was a "known defect" and was affecting many owners. They are working on it


Same basic reply I got yesterday...


----------



## CO skier

dagger1 said:


> CO skier, we are headed your way Saturday!  Man, am I ready for the mountains!  We spend   7-10 days every summer in Breckenridge.  Will be in Vail all of next week.  On a "skiing" note, pardon the offthread question, what is your favorite winter ski town in Colorado?  We are considering buying a fixed ski week up there.  What are the "best" ski weeks in your opinion, we would like to avoid the "out of school" crowds.  Thanks and pardon the off thread question, all!


I will send a private message.


----------



## dagger1

Avislo said:


> "How do you know this as fact ?
> Is it that inside contact you have named Robert ?"
> 
> 
> From personal experience.  The personal attacks do not change realities.  I am not decision maker for Wyndham.  I do not have inside contacts.  Anyone is free to contact Wyndham and get information.  The reason damage to my account is minimal, at this point, is that I spent a lot of time over an extended period of time working with Wyndham's various departments during the preview stage of the roll-out to correct the data base as it relates to me and this process is still not done.  The reality is I may have to live with what has happened to.


What "personal" attack?  You constantly quote your Wyndham sources, get through within minutes when others are on hold for 1 to 1-1/2 hours....  It was you who answered a perfectly reasonable question with a personal attack, basically accusing Braindead of bullying you...  No?


----------



## Sonny Pham

morrisjim said:


> If you can access your points you can stay at a resort if you come from are out of state to protest.





sandkastle4966 said:


> I am tired of looking......I swear I have tried every screen.....
> 
> where is my point status????   Successfully book a ressie - but can't find my total points remaining....
> 
> TIA



You have to get to step 3 of the reservation process to see the point status:





Hope this help,
Sonny


----------



## dagger1

CO skier said:


> I will send a private message.


Thanks!


----------



## cyseitz

I thought that we were going to be able to book one night.  There is a night available that I need at National Harbor and I can't book it because it says there is a minimum one night stay there.


----------



## Avislo

cyseitz said:


> I thought that we were going to be able to book one night.  There is a night available that I need at National Harbor and I can't book it because it says there is a minimum one night stay there.



When I tried for a one night at National Harbor, they would not do it because they said I was not within 14 days.  They also said there were some one night stays in the system but they were over 14 days.  If you are 14 days or less, give Wyndham a call and they should book it for you.


----------



## cyseitz

Oh...I got it... thanks!  I am not 14 days or less in.


----------



## gottashiner

I can't even figure out how to make a reservation.  It just takes me to a map and then nothing happens.  Anyone know if there is the Reservation Timeline Calculator on the site or elsewhere?  Thanks


----------



## Pietin

It seems hit or miss on how to get a reservation.  Sometimes you can get it to search, sometimes through the locations, sometimes the search button doesn't enable, or when it does, no data is returned.  I have found today that I can only see reservations that I can not book, that is, only reservation in the APR window of resorts I don't own, nothing is coming up as express or regular window. 
Got lot love when a system is not tested before being put out there, I have played better beta's of games than this system.


----------



## Sandy VDH

gottashiner said:


> I can't even figure out how to make a reservation.  It just takes me to a map and then nothing happens.  Anyone know if there is the Reservation Timeline Calculator on the site or elsewhere?  Thanks



it is likely you don't need timeline calculator anymore.  And I noticed the old one is gone now anyway. 
So do you NOT need it.  They went to a normalize6d monthly calendar.  What does that mean.  They are NO longer counting days per say, they are counting months. 

So If you want to check in Aug 4/17, then Standard opened on Oct 4/16, Express opened May 4/17, and Discount opens June 4/17 (VIP Plat), June 19/17 (VIP Gold) and July 4/17 (VIP Silver).  Cancellation Remains 15 days or more from checkin without penalty.  You NO Longer have to count the exact 60, 45, 30 days like you used it. 

So there is likely no need to a timeline calculator, provided of you can count to numbers below 12 (months) LOL.


----------



## ronparise

Avislo said:


> The computer problems are real.  For what ever reason(s) Wyndham is not using their override authorities to permit everyone to make reservations.  It would be nice if they did.  However, someone booking a available reservations is not taking anything from anyone.




the owners arent taking anything, its wyndham giving or with holding  opportunity

the point of this whole thing is to level the playing field.. It just seems strange that the cure is worse than the disease.


----------



## gottashiner

I just called Wyndham & asked how to find my point balance.  She said that feature is not working at this time.  We discussed the default of reservations that has farthest in time reservation listed first.  She felt that was just fine and I argued that as an owner, I felt that the default should be the reservation that comes next. I asked her to forward my recommendation but she kept telling me how the default worked.  Obviously I knew that!  She didn't want to hear any complaints and I think she hung up on me.  She would not listen at all and kept talking over me.  I accomplished nothing, other than I won't waste my time looking for my point balance!


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> My next vacation is this weekend with WorldMark. I do not anticipate any difficulties. The recent changes in WorldMark to curtail the megarenter activity proved less volatile and more successful than the changes Voyager brings to Club Wyndham. My hope is that V’ger never enters the WorldMark planetary system.




Its coming to Worldmark, and to Shell too... I dont know when but you can count on it

I find it interesting that so many worldmark owners have been concerned about Wyndham making worldmark more like Club Wyndham with every rule change... Turns out its the other way around.. Club Wyndham is becoming more like worldmark,, any day check in, long reservations,  and an anti renter bias

My observation is that Worldmark is now the better rental vehicle.  If more former club wyndham mega renters see what I see, Id expect rental activity to increase at Worldmark resorts.


----------



## Sandy VDH

gottashiner said:


> I just called Wyndham & asked how to find my point balance.  She said that feature is not working at this time.  We discussed the default of reservations that has farthest in time reservation listed first.



Wyndham added a ticket to change the default order to chronological and not reverse chronological.  So even though you spake to a VC that wasn't supportive.  I spoke to others in OC that were understanding and in agreement that was the wrong default.


----------



## tschwa2

I know its hard to say for sure since the new system isn't working the way it should but see if my understanding is correct.
Points aren't really segregated into buckets other than as they relate to ARP?  So you still can't choose which points to apply for which reservation and if you are VIP with both resale and VIP eligible, your ability to book with a discount or choose an upgrade doesn't depend on using VIP eligible points for that reservation?  In the same way if you have 210,000 retail and 300,000 resale and want to use Club pass, you could do so using 210,000 of your points for the year and they wouldn't have tracked which 210,000 points were being used?  I wonder if you used an ARP reservation with the 210,000 then you could be locked out of using club pass with your other points.


----------



## jberndt10

Finally got in but can't believe there is nothing on Nashville for the next 4 months. You usually can get a 1 bedroom suite a week or 2 out. Anyone else see anything?


----------



## WhiskeyJack

jberndt10 said:


> Finally got in



I am still on the outside looking in so can't answer your Nashville question yet.  Did you or Wyndham do anything special to finally get access to the site?  Were you getting the "account is unavailable" message before?  Thanks


----------



## ronparise

tschwa2 said:


> I know its hard to say for sure since the new system isn't working the way it should but see if my understanding is correct.
> Points aren't really segregated into buckets other than as they relate to ARP?  So you still can't choose which points to apply for which reservation and if you are VIP with both resale and VIP eligible, your ability to book with a discount or choose an upgrade doesn't depend on using VIP eligible points for that reservation?  In the same way if you have 210,000 retail and 300,000 resale and want to use Club pass, you could do so using 210,000 of your points for the year and they wouldn't have tracked which 210,000 points were being used?  I wonder if you used an ARP reservation with the 210,000 then you could be locked out of using club pass with your other points.



one issue of this not allowing you to choose which contracts points to use for a reservation is that you cant "save" points to use for ARP

for example I can start making non arp 2019 reservations in March of 2018  
If I want to make a Christmas 2019 Reservation at Bonnet creek I have to wait until Nov 2018 (13 months)

so its possible that you could spend your Bonnet creek points early in 2018 and not have any left for ARP in Novenber


----------



## cyseitz

gottashiner said:


> I can't even figure out how to make a reservation.  It just takes me to a map and then nothing happens.  Anyone know if there is the Reservation Timeline Calculator on the site or elsewhere?  Thanks


Wait...where is the map?  I don't see a map anywhere.


----------



## Wolf&Sprite

jberndt10 said:


> Finally got in but can't believe there is nothing on Nashville for the next 4 months. You usually can get a 1 bedroom suite a week or 2 out. Anyone else see anything?



I'm looking for something in Nashville for September.  I see absolutely nothing until November.  This isn't the only resort like this.  At Emerald Grand nothing shows up at all through March 2018, but on April Fool's Day everything is available.  I think the joke is on us.

It has to be a database problem.  There is availability but who knows when it will start to show up in the system.


----------



## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> one issue of this not allowing you to choose which contracts points to use for a reservation is that you cant "save" points to use for ARP
> 
> for example I can start making non arp 2019 reservations in March of 2018
> If I want to make a Christmas 2019 Reservation at Bonnet creek I have to wait until Nov 2018 (13 months)
> 
> so its possible that you could spend your Bonnet creek points early in 2018 and not have any left for ARP in Novenber



They could resolve this if they considered all points as just points, and not points linked with a specific contract, once they have been made available for a specific use year and put into a points bucket.  They then provide a maximum number of point allocated to either CWA (for all resorts), or UDI or converted fixed week (for specific resorts). You can book what you want up to the max.  That just makes the using wrong set of points no longer an issue.  Systematically it is an earlier tracking approahc than using the RIGHT contract points for the booking.


----------



## bobbyoc23

somehow my RCI account was cancelled by Wyndham during this mess. RCI says their records indicate that my account has been cancelled and can't see any of the points that I had there. I also had an ongoing search open. I wonder if Wyndham can restore my account easily, and if my points and ongoing search will come back....

I would suggest trying to access your RCI accounts to make sure that works


----------



## MaryBella7

Braindead said:


> I also think this about those last minute realignments. For example
> You had a 500,000 point contract with a use yr. ending 6-30 and between credit pooling- reservations you used all the points.
> Then they realigned that use yr. 12-31 and add 250,000 points your account your prorated amount for 6 mo.
> 
> What they are calling audits is they are trying to figure out if you should get those 250,000 points.
> 
> They locked our accounts while auditing themselves. That great special department they created to realign use yrs.
> Is what they are auditing



I don't think it is an audit. When I called, those extra points were still intact. But when I got in briefly Saturday, there was an alert that I had 346,000 points expiring June 30, 2017. That is the amount of points in the contract realigned and those were separate from the extra points given to accommodate for the use year adjustment. I wonder how many locked out were adjusted last week and the new system plopped bunches of points for this year into accounts. Perhaps I will start a thread for that.

And I wonder if they are working on October use year people and just waiting out the July ones since they'll be gone on the 30th.


----------



## topcop400

Great.  Now they're destroying RCI accounts.


----------



## scootr5

I've seen two reports on the FB group that people that can access the site are seeing oddities when trying to book reservations - specifically booking three nights for check in for 8/13 check out for 8/16, and the summary says (and indicates points usage) for 2 nights instead of 3 nights.





Another user reported seeing the same thing when looking to book at Royal Vista.

They really need to just shut it down and figure it out.


----------



## Roger830

scootr5 said:


> I've seen two reports on the FB group that people that can access the site are seeing oddities when trying to book reservations - specifically booking three nights for check in for 8/13 check out for 8/16, and the summary says (and indicates points usage) for 2 nights instead of 3 nights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another user reported seeing the same thing when looking to book at Royal Vista.
> 
> They really need to just shut it down and figure it out.



In the FB comments, someone pointed out that the first and third nights were booked but not the middle night because not available.

Might be what some call a bug.


----------



## scootr5

Yes, but can you imagine someone not seeing that, traveling to the resort, and then being told they don't have a room for the middle night of the three?


----------



## Roger830

scootr5 said:


> Yes, but can you imagine someone not seeing that, traveling to the resort, and then being told they don't have a room for the middle night of the three?



Wyndham also has Super8.


----------



## scootr5

Now there's a reporter named Paul Brinkmann that posted on the FB group. He states that he is writing an article for the Orlando Sentinel about the website problems, and is looking for responses regarding issues. I'm thinking some of the ongoing audit/lockout people might want to contact him as well.

Email him at pbrinkmann@orlandosentinel.com.


----------



## vacationhopeful

scootr5 said:


> <snip> Orlando Sentinel <snip>
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/PaulBrnkmnn?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf



I wonder how much NEW advertising and new daily readers the Orlando Sentinel will gain. Perhaps, the reporter/newspaper can get this distributed (via the wire services) to ALL major cities/newspaper chains in the Eastern half of the country.

And do the CORPORATE Wyndham issues in the Worldmark & Shell regions news areas.


----------



## Avislo

ronparise said:


> one issue of this not allowing you to choose which contracts points to use for a reservation is that you cant "save" points to use for ARP
> 
> for example I can start making non arp 2019 reservations in March of 2018
> If I want to make a Christmas 2019 Reservation at Bonnet creek I have to wait until Nov 2018 (13 months)
> 
> so its possible that you could spend your Bonnet creek points early in 2018 and not have any left for ARP in Novenber



The term Wyndham used when talking about my reservations was "Sheltering" points.  I tried to explain that I was not doing that.  Sheltering points was in the context of using reservations to preserve regular use year statuses.  The representative did not share what the actual definition of the term is.  I am assuming this term relates features needing regular use year points.


----------



## dagger1

Avislo said:


> When I tried for a one night at National Harbor, they would not do it because they said I was not within 14 days.  They also said there were some one night stays in the system but they were over 14 days.  If you are 14 days or less, give Wyndham a call and they should book it for you.





Avislo said:


> The term Wyndham used when talking about my reservations was "Sheltering" points.  I tried to explain that I was not doing that.  Sheltering points was in the context of using reservations to preserve regular use year statuses.  The representative did not share what the actual definition of the term is.  I am assuming this term relates features needing regular use year points.


----------



## CO skier

gottashiner said:


> We discussed the default of reservations that has farthest in time reservation listed first.  She felt that was just fine and I argued that as an owner, I felt that the default should be the reservation that comes next. I asked her to forward my recommendation but she kept telling me how the default worked.  Obviously I knew that!


Listing the most distant reservation first is the default in WorldMark and has been for the eight years I have owned.  I have never heard anyone raise it as an issue.  That may be because there is an arrow button to reverse the order to nearest reservation listed first.  (I may have used the reorder arrow all of one time in eight years, but I seldom have more than 6 or 8 reservations at a time).

At this point in time, the default display order of reservations is the least of the problems Wyndham has to solve.


----------



## Roger830

scootr5 said:


> Now there's a reporter named Paul Brinkmann that posted on the FB group. He states that he is writing an article for the Orlando Sentinel about the website problems, and is looking for responses regarding issues. I'm thinking some of the ongoing audit/lockout people might want to contact him as well.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/PaulBrnkmnn?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf



The article has been posted. Brian and TUG are mentioned.

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-93411354/


----------



## uscav8r

cyseitz said:


> I thought that we were going to be able to book one night.  There is a night available that I need at National Harbor and I can't book it because it says there is a minimum one night stay there.



I think you mean a minimum 2-night stay?

I saw this as well. It appears you cannot book an orphaned single night until inside 15 days to check in. I sent feedback to Wyndham this I believe their system is wrong. An orphaned single night should be bookable whenever it occurs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uscav8r

cyseitz said:


> Wait...where is the map?  I don't see a map anywhere.



Don't bother. It has the worst functionality ever. They tried to make it "Google Earth" style, but IMO the old style map was much easier to navigate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uscav8r

scootr5 said:


> I've seen two reports on the FB group that people that can access the site are seeing oddities when trying to book reservations - specifically booking three nights for check in for 8/13 check out for 8/16, and the summary says (and indicates points usage) for 2 nights instead of 3 nights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another user reported seeing the same thing when looking to book at Royal Vista.
> 
> They really need to just shut it down and figure it out.



What is the FB group to which you refer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Roger830

uscav8r said:


> I think you mean a minimum 2-night stay?
> 
> I saw this as well. It appears you cannot book an orphaned single night until inside 15 days to check in. I sent feedback to Wyndham this I believe their system is wrong. An orphaned single night should be bookable whenever it occurs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I suspect that the thinking is if a night 8 months from now is orphaned, a cancelation could link it up again to a day on either side.

In March I did book a day in ny for the last week in Nov which I'm now glad that I did.


----------



## scootr5

uscav8r said:


> I think you mean a minimum 2-night stay?
> 
> I saw this as well. It appears you cannot book an orphaned single night until inside 15 days to check in. I sent feedback to Wyndham this I believe their system is wrong. An orphaned single night should be bookable whenever it occurs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



With the new "check in any day" I don't think there are orphaned nights anymore.


----------



## uscav8r

CO skier said:


> Listing the most distant reservation first is the default in WorldMark and has been for the eight years I have owned.  I have never heard anyone raise it as an issue.  That may be because there is an arrow button to reverse the order to nearest reservation listed first.  (I may have used the reorder arrow all of one time in eight years, but I seldom have more than 6 or 8 reservations at a time).
> 
> At this point in time, the default display order of reservations is the least of the problems Wyndham has to solve.



The difference is that the WorldMark display style is much more compact and the system is more responsive when you flip the order. This new site is SLOOOOW and the reservation list is spread out so you have to constantly scroll to see all the reservations. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scootr5

uscav8r said:


> What is the FB group to which you refer?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Wyndham timeshare user group. It's closed, generally an "only positive things" group.


----------



## uscav8r

scootr5 said:


> With the new "check in any day" I don't think there are orphaned nights anymore.



Not so. There are several at National Harbor in June. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scootr5

Sorry, I meant that they are no longer considered orphaned until inside 14 days. You can only book 2 or 3 night minimums outside 14 days under the new rules.


----------



## Avislo

ronparise said:


> Its coming to Worldmark, and to Shell too... I dont know when but you can count on it
> 
> I find it interesting that so many worldmark owners have been concerned about Wyndham making worldmark more like Club Wyndham with every rule change... Turns out its the other way around.. Club Wyndham is becoming more like worldmark,, any day check in, long reservations,  and an anti renter bias
> 
> My observation is that Worldmark is now the better rental vehicle.  If more former club wyndham mega renters see what I see, Id expect rental activity to increase at Worldmark resorts.



 These are probably the 6 or 8 lines that a Wyndham Official made reference to as coming together.

"The timeshare giant is struggling to weave an old system into a new platform that interacts with new brands that Wyndham has added in recent years, said Greg Crist, CEO of the National Timeshare Owners Association.

He said complaints about the switchover began a year ago when the company first tested the system ...

“Technology is a beast,” Crist said. “They need to get this right quick.” ... .

Brands for Wyndham Vacation Ownership include Club Wyndham, WorldMark by Wyndham, Shell Vacations Club, Margaritaville Vacation Club by Wyndham, and clubs in Asia, the South Pacific and Brazil."


----------



## wed100105

I'm assuming that some resorts are not in the system yet. I've heard Emerald is not, and I believe Glacier Canyon is not either. It's not sold out for the next twelve months totally. This is ridiculous though.

I called the Glacier Canyon front desk last night since I have 11 reservations there from last night through June 5. All were booked before the new website, and all had guest confirmations except one that I put on there yesterday morning. The guest confirmation was a lot quicker than before. She had it in her system already. I mentioned that I can't see any availability at all, and she tried telling me how the new system was going to increase availability for owners by taking it away from the mega renters. I told her that I couldn't see any availability at all for the next twelve months. She had no idea. I can't wait for them to ask me to attend an update.....


I use my RCI account for Disney. I would flip out if Wyndham screwed it up!


----------



## 55plus

wed100105 said:


> I'm assuming that some resorts are not in the system yet. I've heard Emerald is not, and I believe Glacier Canyon is not either. It's not sold out for the next twelve months totally. This is ridiculous though.
> 
> I called the Glacier Canyon front desk last night since I have 11 reservations there from last night through June 5. All were booked before the new website, and all had guest confirmations except one that I put on there yesterday morning. The guest confirmation was a lot quicker than before. She had it in her system already. I mentioned that I can't see any availability at all, and she tried telling me how the new system was going to increase availability for owners by taking it away from the mega renters. I told her that I couldn't see any availability at all for the next twelve months. She had no idea. I can't wait for them to ask me to attend an update..... I use my RCI account for Disney. I would flip out if Wyndham screwed it up!



I picked up several Glacier Canyon reservations the other day for July and one with an upgrade. Since then I haven't seen any availability. . .


----------



## Cdn Gal

Has anybody else had their computer time out because the website is so slow??  I feel like I'm back in the 1990's doing dial up again.


----------



## wed100105

morrisjim said:


> I picked up several Glacier Canyon reservations the other day for July and one with an upgrade. Since then I haven't seen any availability. . .


Oh man! I wish I would have caught those. I don't see anything at all.


----------



## famy27

wed100105 said:


> Oh man! I wish I would have caught those. I don't see anything at all.



I got the Friday through Sunday after Thanksgiving at GC in a three-bedroom presidential right when the new system went live. I am hoping it won't get pulled back from me, because that would be very disappointing.

The weird thing is that the reservation shows the correct dates, but the "picture" at the top has the days shifted by one. That is not instilling me with confidence...


----------



## Avislo

A call would be appropriate to the resort to see what they have.


----------



## uscav8r

famy27 said:


> I got the Friday through Sunday after Thanksgiving at GC in a three-bedroom presidential right when the new system went live. I am hoping it won't get pulled back from me, because that would be very disappointing.
> 
> The weird thing is that the reservation shows the correct dates, but the "picture" at the top has the days shifted by one. That is not installing me with confidence...



That wouldn't instill my confidence in the system either. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## traveldaddy

morrisjim said:


> I picked up several Glacier Canyon reservations the other day for July and one with an upgrade. Since then I haven't seen any availability. . .



Good for you, may have been mine. Cancelled a 4 day 2 bedroom Dx for July yesterday. I had snagged that right at the 10 month mark. Family schedules changing, so I couldn't go. I mean who really needs to get married in July?  

FWIW I did 2 cancellations, 1 yesterday and 1 day before, and had to call in to check point balances. I think there is some sort of batch process, as when I did the one yesterday, I was trying to immediately book to use the points for 2017 use year, as I already have vacation planned post Xmas, I didn't want points to expire by not being able to get a summer vacay in. Anyhow, when checking the RCI exchange portion of the website and doing a partial booking, I was getting different point balances showing. When I called in the VC was pretty darn good (beat up and demoralized, but I was expecting worse). Went through what I had and it made sense, but it did not match what I was seeing. Well, since i had to wait over an hour on phone to get through, I then went back to website and the numbers were different. Thing is, I had checked what I could see immediately before the cancel and immediately after. The numbers changed after cancel and appeared incorrect (or I could not make sense of them). Well after the call, they matched what the VC said (what I could see). He did not say he corrected anything, just went through what I had. Long story short, you may not see all of your points come back right away, maybe it depends on where they came from (credit pool vs use year), but I can't tell/not enough info showing. Posting this just in case anyone is interested.  It has been a loooooonnnngggg discussion, so I hope someone much smarter than me figures out how this system works and can post a summary some day.

Also, I did what I guess is the only thing I can do. Booked a vacay for summer, even though there have been thoughts that the inventory is messed. 6 days at National Harbour in August. Managed to use rest of my 2017 use year points that came from cancelled bookings. I hope that if the inventory is messed up, they figure it out relatively soon and give us some notice. If it gets too far along I don't know how I can use the points though. This could potentially screw a lot of owners.......but I guess showing up and not having a room would be even worse, especially after a long trip. Will be calling all resorts directly days before I arrive, which I only did about half the time previously.

Good luck to everyone, hoping it gets better soon.


----------



## Sandi Bo

Roger830 said:


> The article has been posted. Brian and TUG are mentioned.
> 
> http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-93411354/



         A decent percentage of this frustration is just dealing with change,” said Brian Rogers, who organizes the Timeshare Users Group website.

Brian you are way too kind.  Change I can deal with.  Bad data, incomplete data, people still locked out, malfunctioning features, missing reservations, substandard features, unable to support key features of old systems (VIP discounts for example). Saying not all the bugs are worked out does not begin to describe what's going on here. 

Sorry WYN, this is the worst conversion I have EVER seen. Hands down WYN, the worst!  I worked for a baby Bell during / following the divestiture of AT&T. I've worked on a few system conversions  Splitting systems, merging systems, moving from major systems from mainframe to client server.  This WYN Voyager thing is just unbelievable.


----------



## uscav8r

scootr5 said:


> Wyndham timeshare user group. It's closed, generally an "only positive things" group.



Oh, that one. I've seen other folks reference was would seem to be the corporate site to push messages to Wyndham. I did finally find that one after a few iterations:

Wyndham Vacation Ownership.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## isilwath

Been trying to log in for days. Still getting "your account is unavailable at this time" message.


----------



## seascapemvy

isilwath said:


> Been trying to log in for days. Still getting "your account is unavailable at this time" message.


I have the same problem.  I was told it would be fixed by Friday.  It is now Friday and still I get the message my account is unavailable.  Shocking isn't it?   NO!


----------



## Sandi Bo

Does everyone see the banner message about VIP discounts (or only VIP's)?  Wonder if WYN sales is making sure customers are aware?


----------



## Sandi Bo

isilwath said:


> Been trying to log in for days. Still getting "your account is unavailable at this time" message.



This is day 8 of not having access to my VIP Platinum account (same message).


----------



## Sandi Bo

Anyone at a Wyndham Resort?

Please print and put copies anywhere you can -- outside all sales offices, perhaps share with your parking pass friends?  Leave a few at the front desk?

New Wyndham system implemented Friday - May 19th...

Many owners - including VIP Platinum - we are on day 8 of not being able to access our account:





For those who have access - reservations are missing - point balances not available - functionality missing or buggy:

Sample screenshot:


----------



## Braindead

Avislo said:


> A call would be appropriate to the resort to see what they have.


ROBERTS one and only advice. Call call call call -----------------call


----------



## dagger1

Still:  "Your account is not available at this time."  I called, only waited 24 minutes, and all of our reservations are still in their system.  The VC said now it "might" be Monday....


----------



## wjappraise

Sandi Bo said:


> A decent percentage of this frustration is just dealing with change,” said Brian Rogers, who organizes the Timeshare Users Group website.
> 
> Brian you are way too kind.  Change I can deal with.  Bad data, incomplete data, people still locked out, malfunctioning features, missing reservations, substandard features, unable to support key features of old systems (VIP discounts for example). Saying not all the bugs are worked out does not begin to describe what's going on here.
> 
> Sorry WYN, this is the worst conversion I have EVER seen. Hands down WYN, the worst!  I worked for a baby Bell during / following the divestiture of AT&T. I've worked on a few system conversions  Splitting systems, merging systems, moving from major systems from mainframe to client server.  This WYN Voyager thing is just unbelievable.



Oh, yeah, Brian went soft on it.  We can tell he has not personally experienced the unholy alliance of ignorance and arrogance that is Wyndham, on full display with its insistence to jam this new platform down our throats, come hell or high water.  Combine this latest disaster with the now 9-month "frozen account" fiasco, and the credit pool problems, it clearly is a trend on Wydham's part to not adequately protect its (our) data, points, and ultimately, money.  This is not a negative reaction to "dealing with change."  That is a realistic reaction to dealing with incompetence and arrogance.  At this point, I would WELCOME change, if it meant the attitude of the Great Oz of Wyndham would change.


----------



## Roger830

The fiasco this week will catch the ivory tower's attention soon when it affects sales from existing owners.

Some of the FB members are going to updates to express their discontent. This discontent will work it's way up.


----------



## CCdad

Sandi Bo said:


> Anyone at a Wyndham Resort?
> 
> Please print and put copies anywhere you can -- outside all sales offices, perhaps share with your parking pass friends?  Leave a few at the front desk?
> 
> New Wyndham system implemented Friday - May 19th...
> 
> Many owners - including VIP Platinum - we are on day 8 of not being able to access our account:
> 
> View attachment 3964
> 
> For those who have access - reservations are missing - point balances not available - functionality missing or buggy:
> 
> Sample screenshot:
> 
> View attachment 3965



That's one sure way to be escorted off property by security for violating the resort's No Solicitation policy.

Even though at Bonnet Creek, I'm pretty sure their employee(s) are getting paid to hand deliver those pizza delivery flyers under all the doors every 2-3 nights.


----------



## 55plus

CCdad said:


> That's one sure way to be escorted off property by security for violating the resort's No Solicitation policy. Even though at Bonnet Creek, I'm pretty sure their employee(s) are getting paid to hand deliver those pizza delivery flyers under all the doors every 2-3 nights.



Publicizing the truth and warning other of the problem isn't solicitation. You gain nothing for it.


----------



## Avislo

Roger830 said:


> The fiasco this week will catch the ivory tower's attention soon when it affects sales from existing owners.
> 
> Some of the FB members are going to updates to express their discontent. This discontent will work it's way up.



This would be a much much better reaction than some other ones being suggested.


----------



## PeterS

When at first you don't succeed..... 

Latest Notice on the Website:

System Updates for Your Website
We appreciate your patience as we continue to upgrade your online experience. Your owner website will be unavailable starting at 11 a.m., ET and we’ll be back later.
So it is going down in about 45 minutes and will be back....... LATER......

Hold tight for more improvements and fixes.....


----------



## CCdad

morrisjim said:


> Publicizing the truth and warning other of the problem isn't solicitation. You gain nothing for it.



Remember, this is Wyndham we're talking about.  

They can twist their interpretation of this as a solicitation for any number of reasons:  sympathy for the impacted owners, to implied solicitation not to buy Wyndham points, or to not to stay at Wyndham properties, etc.


----------



## buckor

PeterS said:


> When at first you don't succeed.....
> 
> Latest Notice on the Website:
> 
> System Updates for Your Website
> We appreciate your patience as we continue to upgrade your online experience. Your owner website will be unavailable starting at 11 a.m., ET and we’ll be back later.
> So it is going down in about 45 minutes and will be back....... LATER......
> 
> Hold tight for more improvements and fixes.....


Yep....just got the same message while still getting the one that my account is unavailable.

I was able to login the preview site...but nothing since the changeover. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## Avislo

Just checked the on-line account.  This is the first time something actually came up under the News section.  Nothing particularly new or of significance to the roll-out of the site.


----------



## famy27

uscav8r said:


> That wouldn't instill my confidence in the system either.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Ha! That's what I get for failing to proofread.


----------



## ilya

Wyndham might want to start pulling the rooms from Expedia, Booking, Extra Holidays ...


----------



## Avislo

From the new site:

*Hold tight, we’ll be back.*
We’re currently in the process of updating our systems. Thank you for your patience as we continue to upgrade your online experience.


----------



## TUGBrian

Sandi Bo said:


> A decent percentage of this frustration is just dealing with change,” said Brian Rogers, who organizes the Timeshare Users Group website.
> 
> Brian you are way too kind.  Change I can deal with.  Bad data, incomplete data, people still locked out, malfunctioning features, missing reservations, substandard features, unable to support key features of old systems (VIP discounts for example). Saying not all the bugs are worked out does not begin to describe what's going on here.
> 
> Sorry WYN, this is the worst conversion I have EVER seen. Hands down WYN, the worst!  I worked for a baby Bell during / following the divestiture of AT&T. I've worked on a few system conversions  Splitting systems, merging systems, moving from major systems from mainframe to client server.  This WYN Voyager thing is just unbelievable.



well, in my defense...I said a whole lot more than the few lines that were quoted in the article...and nothing I said was anywhere remotely positive about the new website =)   Taking a single line from an hour long conversation doesnt accurately portray my feelings on the situation...especially that line in particular.


I did indeed say that many of the complaints were dealing with change...which is absolutely true.  however the major problems with the site have nothing to do with change...and are just complete and total failures.

all in all, its clear this was rolled out either with little to no testing...or testing by people who simply are not owners who use the system regularly.


----------



## scootr5

I'm pretty sure this will be used in the future as an example to illustrate _how not to_ implement a website/backend upgrade.

The fact that they've insisted on just plowing ahead while intimating that there are not serious problems is absolutely comical.


----------



## wjappraise

TUGBrian said:


> well, in my defense...I said a whole lot more than the few lines that were quoted in the article...and nothing I said was anywhere remotely positive about the new website =)   Taking a single line from an hour long conversation doesnt accurately portray my feelings on the situation...especially that line in particular.
> 
> 
> I did indeed say that many of the complaints were dealing with change...which is absolutely true.  however the major problems with the site have nothing to do with change...and are just complete and total failures.
> 
> all in all, its clear this was rolled out either with little to no testing...or testing by people who simply are not owners who use the system regularly.



Thanks for the clarification Brian. It's good having you sounding the alarm on our behalf.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TUGBrian

no problem...even I read the article and thought I sounded like the only guy in the room defending wyndham...so I dont take offense to anyone else here thinking that.

but rest assured, I think its as garbage as you all do!


----------



## littlestar

The RCI points deposit feature is working now on the new Wyndham site. I rented the extra points I needed for $8 a point and deposited into RCI.


----------



## seascapemvy

littlestar said:


> The RCI points deposit feature is working now on the new Wyndham site. I rented the extra points I needed for $8 a point and deposited into RCI.


I can't get to the RCI site, but that is because I still can't log in.  I was hoping today would be the day, but today is not the day!


----------



## wed100105

I've been posting a bit on Wyndham's FB page as well. It looked like last night you could no longer post directly to their page, but you could still comment on their posts. They had a throwback Thursday post. I commented, "How about you throwback Thursday to last Thursday when your website worked?"


----------



## bendadin




----------



## buckor

Looks like the 11am update is done....my account is still unavailable!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## seascapemvy

buckor said:


> Looks like the 11am update is done....my account is still unavailable!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## buckor

From the email I just got from Wyndham:

"Please keep in mind some of the new features and functionality may be temporarily unavailable over the next few days as we continue to upgrade your online experience. We appreciate your patience and understanding."

Well, since I have zero, zilch, nada, for "New features and functionality" because my account is still unavailable, anything at this point would be an upgrade to the new system....the bar is not set very high here WYN.

Also, I would appreciate a customized email responding to why I cannot access my account. That would help with my patience and understanding...alot.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## gisxprt




----------



## seascapemvy

buckor said:


> From the email I just got from Wyndham:
> 
> "Please keep in mind some of the new features and functionality may be temporarily unavailable over the next few days as we continue to upgrade your online experience. We appreciate your patience and understanding."
> 
> Well, since I have zero, zilch, nada, for "New features and functionality" because my account is still unavailable, anything at this point would be an upgrade to the new system....the bar is not set very high here WYN.
> 
> Also, I would appreciate a customized email responding to why I cannot access my account. That would help with my patience and understanding...alot.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


At 2:02 PM, I received an email that said:

Your New Website Is Here!

This special, digital edition of _Faces + Places_ is your guide to all the new tools and features available on your enhanced owner website along with important updates to the CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Program Guidelines. As you read through the magazine, be sure to click on the links to continue exploring online. 

Please keep in mind some of the new features and functionality may be temporarily unavailable over the next few days as we continue to upgrade your online experience. We appreciate your patience and understanding.

The only problem is my new website is not here and they can't tell me when it will be.


----------



## paxsarah

Even if you do get into your new website, not only are some of the new features unavailable, but lots of the old features as well.

They need to shut the whole thing down, issue a sincere and honest apology for a rushed rollout, and work around the clock to get it right.


----------



## chapjim

traveldaddy said:


> I guess Wyn keeps setting the BAR higher and higher, eh?
> 
> 
> Sorry....couldn't resist



ew


----------



## uscav8r

scootr5 said:


> I'm pretty sure this will be used in the future as an example to illustrate _how not to_ implement a website/backend upgrade.
> 
> The fact that they've insisted on just plowing ahead while intimating that there are not serious problems is absolutely comical.



There may be no way to retrograde the system, especially if bookings have been made and have been tagged with points-tracking data that are incompatible with the old system. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scootr5

uscav8r said:


> There may be no way to retrograde the system, especially if bookings have been made and have been tagged with points-tracking data that are incompatible with the old system.



I wasn't meaning that they should try and back up, but rather they should just admit they have a big problem and take it entirely off line. Obviously I have no inside info, but I've got to believe that continuing to allow transactions is only going to make it harder to sort all of this out.


----------



## topcop400

scootr5 said:


> .....I've got to believe that continuing to allow transactions is only going to make it harder to sort all of this out.




You are absolutely right.   The longer they wait, the bigger the mess.


----------



## topcop400

When I received the phony email this morning, my first thought was “Oh good, maybe they’ve got it all worked out”.  But then I checked the site   That just added to my frustration and anger.  Why on earth would they send that out-- inflaming their problem.  I imagine they have just magnified the anger X 400,000.


----------



## shares3

topcop400 said:


> When I received the phony email this morning, my first thought was “Oh good, maybe they’ve got it all worked out”.  But then I checked the site   That just added to my frustration and anger.  Why on earth would they send that out-- inflaming their problem.  I imagine they have just magnified the anger X 400,000.



I am a Platinum member and have not had access to my account since 5/19/17.  I keep calling and they keep saying my reservations are fine and they can "Just about guarantee me that none of the reservations will be cancelled." I told them that is no consolation since they can do anything they want and what can I do about it??? I have guests needing certificates for Memorial Day and yet the reservationists say they cannot do anything in my account.  I understand that this is the second time they have tried to roll out this program over the years and still do not have it right.  After over 6 hours on the phone holding this week, I wish that I had never heard of Wyndham.


----------



## topcop400

shares3 said:


> .. they can "Just about guarantee me that none of the reservations will be cancelled."




“Just about……” sounds noncommittal to me.

I bet we were not the only ones who knew this was going to be a huge failure.  I bet the sales weasels had been talking amongst themselves before the roll out — they were dreading this, knowing it was going to be a problem for them.  But, I bet they didn't know it would be a catastrophic failure of EPIC proportion.  Wyndham has truly outdone themselves this time.


----------



## Sandi Bo

topcop400 said:


> When I received the phony email this morning, my first thought was “Oh good, maybe they’ve got it all worked out”.  But then I checked the site   That just added to my frustration and anger.  Why on earth would they send that out-- inflaming their problem.  I imagine they have just magnified the anger X 400,000.


I don't think the right hand knows what the left hand is doing. 
And until WYN stock is affected (or maybe sales), top management is not going to take notice/action. 
I do not believe upper management was listening/was aware of how NOT ready IT was for this. 
I envision them receiving reports such as:
* use years were aligned (this was NOT really a Voyager programming effort - it was manual AND ineffective, but I'm sure someone took credit it for being part of the Voyager prep success) 
* made preview site available to their valued owners (not what was rolled out, and I for sure let them know I was not impressed - was anyone listening)?
* 7 years of dev effort
* in test for over a year
* preview site available for owners for over a year
   - we know the preview site is not what was rolled out
   - full functionality was never in the preview site  
     - booking redirected you to the old site (anyone who ever used the website knew nothing of content was being delivered)
     - none of the new functionality was available in the preview site 
     - we didn't like the search for resort in the preview site and had not gotten a glimpse of the even more important (and worse than one could possibly imagine) search for a specific date and room
This is a perfect example of s*** rolling up hill.  What were they told/how in the world did they sell their top management on this?


----------



## cyseitz

topcop400 said:


> “Just about……” sounds noncommittal to me.
> 
> I bet we were not the only ones who knew this was going to be a huge failure.  I bet the sales weasels had been talking amongst themselves before the roll out — they were dreading this, knowing it was going to be a problem for them.  But, I bet they didn't know it would be a catastrophic failure of EPIC proportion.  Wyndham has truly outdone themselves this time.


What are they going to do if people have reservations that needed to be canceled and could not cancel them....are they going to give points back? Just wondering as some people could not even get them on the phone.


----------



## topcop400

cyseitz said:


> What are they going to do if people have reservations that needed to be canceled and could not cancel them....are they going to give points back? Just wondering as some people could not even get them on the phone.



Nope.


----------



## Avislo

cyseitz said:


> What are they going to do if people have reservations that needed to be canceled and could not cancel them....are they going to give points back? Just wondering as some people could not even get them on the phone.



I have not seen a FAQ before on the new site.  Please note at the bottom of the FAQ is a form to submit for problems.    Here it is.

https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/preview-faq.page?


----------



## nicemann

Helpful hint from Facebook user Lisa B.  You can get the same kind of result by searching for the exact dates but you have to keep trying different ones till you find a date that works.  This way you can find a date for say a 1 bedroom on the calendar and go back and see what other ones are available.



> For those who are able to get into the site, I discovered a secret to finding availability. In the booking area, Once you choose your resort, choose your dates. Find any available unit, click on book it, then when the system asks for your name and email, back out of that screen, and the availability of ALL units for those dates at that resort will display. If you are looking at an area, say Myrtle Beach, you will get ALL availability at ALL resorts in that area. I just did Myrtle Beach and picked an available date. Used the trick above and got availability at all four towers at ocean Blvd, the cottages, the villas, seawatch, towers on the Grove and westwinds on one screen all types of units from one bedroom to 4 be prez.


----------



## cyseitz

nicemann said:


> Helpful hint from Facebook user Lisa B.  You can get the same kind of result by searching for the exact dates but you have to keep trying different ones till you find a date that works.  This way you can find a date for say a 1 bedroom on the calendar and go back and see what other ones are available.


When you say the "booking area"  do  you mean the box in the top left or do you mean the button at the very top left that says "book"?


----------



## cyseitz

nicemann said:


> Helpful hint from Facebook user Lisa B.  You can get the same kind of result by searching for the exact dates but you have to keep trying different ones till you find a date that works.  This way you can find a date for say a 1 bedroom on the calendar and go back and see what other ones are available.


So, I am taking it that there has to be at least one room available to be able to click "book it", right?


----------



## staceyeileen

I've been getting account unavailable, and now tonight I can log in.  

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1

I am finally in, and too exhausted to begin checking out the reservation system.  And as had been said, can't find where it shows current points or how to get to RCI...


----------



## Jan M.

The reservation system is horrible. I guess I didn't really believe it was as bad as OP said. I do now!


----------



## Jan M.

dagger1 said:


> I am finally in, and too exhausted to begin checking out the reservation system.  And as had been said, can't find where it shows current points or how to get to RCI...



If you want to be able to sleep tonight don't check out the reservation system. The aggravation will have you up for hours.


----------



## wjappraise

dagger1 said:


> I am finally in, and too exhausted to begin checking out the reservation system.  And as had been said, can't find where it shows current points or how to get to RCI...



Current points tab was deactivated three days ago and still not back.  It was under the Ownership details tab. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wed100105

I'm still seeing nothing for GC.


----------



## cyseitz

So, it looks like people that could not get in before are starting to be able to get in now.


----------



## Bigrob

Yes, I am one of those that couldn't get in before and can now. Although to Jan's point, it might have been better if I hadn't. Sigh.


----------



## Bigrob

I wonder what happens with cancellations? I cancelled the smallest unit available at a resort, in order to shrink the reservation down by day, but it never came back.


----------



## staceyeileen

Wow, it's god awful.


----------



## Zeke_62

I have canceled several reservations during the last week, and only a fraction return.  Several of these were either 1 suite or 1 dx that did not return.   And, as you can not upgrade from a 1 suite to a 1 dx they could not have been grabbed as an upgrade.


----------



## dagger1

Jan M. said:


> If you want to be able to sleep tonight don't check out the reservation system. The aggravation will have you up for hours.


If the reservation system is as bad as everyone says, can you imagine the "wait" times from folks trying to book by phone...?


----------



## happyhopian

well it has certainly been picked over. Whatever inventory was here at the beginning of the week is gone. I needed two nights at bonnet creek to bridge a stay and there's nothing consecutive. Shameful that I pay them $1000 a month. #dissappointed


----------



## happyhopian

> For those who are able to get into the site, I discovered a secret to finding availability. In the booking area, Once you choose your resort, choose your dates. Find any available unit, click on book it, then when the system asks for your name and email, back out of that screen, and the availability of ALL units for those dates at that resort will display. If you are looking at an area, say Myrtle Beach, you will get ALL availability at ALL resorts in that area. I just did Myrtle Beach and picked an available date. Used the trick above and got availability at all four towers at ocean Blvd, the cottages, the villas, seawatch, towers on the Grove and westwinds on one screen all types of units from one bedroom to 4 be prez..



Mine already shows this without having to go back. If I choose the resort, insert dates but don't choose a room type is shows me all room types available during that stay period, the problem is that there is no +/- outside the stay like the old system or like any other current reservation system I have ever used from airlines to hotels. I'm just not sure what the benefit is from clicking 'book it' and then going back. I'm seeing the same thing when I choose: resort:checkin/checkout and leave room type un selected. Can someone explain what I'm missing


----------



## Avislo

The Map is back for me when I signed in this morning.  The roll of people gaining access that are posters on TUG appears to being called.  It is great to see that a number now have access.  Hope the balance clear up throughout the day and the account suspension issue of last fall is getting resolved in the process.


----------



## Avislo

Bigrob said:


> I wonder what happens with cancellations? I cancelled the smallest unit available at a resort, in order to shrink the reservation down by day, but it never came back.



If overbook situations occurred as the system rolled out, the cancellations probably went there.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> well it has certainly been picked over. Whatever inventory was here at the beginning of the week is gone. I needed two nights at bonnet creek to bridge a stay and there's nothing consecutive. Shameful that I pay them $1000 a month. #dissappointed


Everything I searched has no availability also.
This week has been like a Black Friday sale
The security guard wouldn't let us in. While standing at the door. We hear people going in and coming out talking-
1. The store is well stocked with inventory
2. Customers are finding those high demand items that haven't been available in months
3. Those items that haven't been available for months are door busters at half price
4. Loyal customers that have purchased high priced items in the past were granted VIP. Their walking out with 100 inch TVs for the price of 60 inch TV that was already on sale at 50 percent off

We finally get in to find the empty store. No rain checks available 

I can't see where my account is any different. Looks just like the Pre View site and what I seen briefly Saturday. Don't know about my point buckets.

It's nice to have access to something you OWN after being locked out. Very upsetting to be locked out of your ownership when you had absolutely no involvement for any of the possibilities for locking you out. I think they finally unlocked a bunch of us last night so they could just go home


----------



## Avislo

What ever works.


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> Everything I searched has no availability also.
> This week has been like a Black Friday sale
> The security guard wouldn't let us in. While standing at the door. We hear people going in and coming out talking-
> 1. The store is well stocked with inventory
> 2. Customers are finding those high demand items that haven't been available in months
> 3. Those items that haven't been available for months are door busters at half price
> 4. Loyal customers that have purchased high priced items in the past were granted VIP. Their walking out with 100 inch TVs for the price of 60 inch TV that was already on sale at 50 percent off
> 
> We finally get in to find the empty store. No rain checks available
> 
> I can't see where my account is any different. Looks just like the Pre View site and what I seen briefly Saturday. Don't know about my point buckets.
> 
> It's nice to have access to something you OWN after being locked out. Very upsetting to be locked out of your ownership when you had absolutely no involvement for any of the possibilities for locking you out. I think they finally unlocked a bunch of us last night so they could just go home




Would love to see no availability at this point. What number did you call to help with your account. The VIP number I call will not transfer me to owner care or any one else.


----------



## Avislo

ilya said:


> Would love to see no availability at this point. What number did you call to help with your account. The VIP number I call will not transfer me to owner care or any one else.



800 251-8736 Option 3 Option 2.  The reps tend to answer quickly if called right at opening.  Also, the new FAQ page on the new site has a comment form for problems etc.


----------



## Braindead

This is one time to give Avislo credit.

Call non VIP number 800-251-8736 ext 3 ext 2 Owner services

I have been in direct contact with OC via email for months.


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> This is one time to give Avislo credit.
> 
> Call non VIP number 800-251-8736 ext 3 ext 2 Owner services
> 
> I have been in direct contact with OC via email for months.




Thanks, I'm getting  really pissed..


----------



## happyhopian

So, I am currently at this moment on the phone with owner care who is telling me that under the new system/rules only a 'next larger unit' upgrade is available. There is no 1 to 3 or ever 1 deluxe to 1 presidential but ONLY 1br deluxe to 2br deluxe.

So:
No upgrades from size "1br" DELUXE to size "1br" PRESIDENTIAL. (to 2 to 2 or 3 to 3)
No upgrades from size "1br" DELUXE to size "3br" DELUXE 

ONLY:
upgrade from size 1br deluxe to size 2br deluxe (or 2br to 3br but no 1br to 3br)
upgrade from size 1br deluxe to size 2br presidential (or 2br to 3br but no 1 to 3)

Is this what others have experienced?

This is important because booking a 1br expecting an upgrade to a 3br is NOT going to happen. This also impacts the 'exact' match we have all been discussing with regards to what will trigger an automatic match.


----------



## bendadin

So as far as I can see, it doesn't like Chrome. There were no hyperlinks to launch RCI. 

I have two member numbers listed. My name is on three different contracts with someone I don't know. I wonder if I'm VIP. Lol


----------



## Braindead

bendadin said:


> So as far as I can see, it doesn't like Chrome. There were no hyperlinks to launch RCI.
> 
> I have two member numbers listed. My name is on three different contracts with someone I don't know. I wonder if I'm VIP. Lol


Exactly my point. They released a bunch of us without correcting anything. All they accomplished was upsetting the apple cart


----------



## ronparise

happyhopian said:


> This is important because booking a 1br *expecting* an upgrade to a 3br is NOT going to happen.



it seems to me, booking anything, expecting something else, is not a reasonable thing to do. You really ought to book what you need.


----------



## bendadin

Braindead said:


> Exactly my point. They released a bunch of us without correcting anything. All they accomplished was upsetting the apple cart



So I clearly have full reign over this person's Wyndham account. I called the phone number listed and it said that the voicemailbox was full. I wonder if his account fell into many people's accounts.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> So, I am currently at this moment on the phone with owner care who is telling me that under the new system/rules only a 'next larger unit' upgrade is available. There is no 1 to 3 or ever 1 deluxe to 1 presidential but ONLY 1br deluxe to 2br deluxe.
> 
> So:
> No upgrades from size "1br" DELUXE to size "1br" PRESIDENTIAL. (to 2 to 2 or 3 to 3)
> No upgrades from size "1br" DELUXE to size "3br" DELUXE
> 
> ONLY:
> upgrade from size 1br deluxe to size 2br deluxe (or 2br to 3br but no 1br to 3br)
> upgrade from size 1br deluxe to size 2br presidential (or 2br to 3br but no 1 to 3)
> 
> Is this what others have experienced?
> 
> This is important because booking a 1br expecting an upgrade to a 3br is NOT going to happen. This also impacts the 'exact' match we have all been discussing with regards to what will trigger an automatic match.


You might be right  on the auto upgrade only going up 1 bedroom size.
Manually might be different and jump from 1 BR to 3 BR if it wasn't taken as auto upgrade and just sitting there as others have reported

Typical Wyndham 1 BR DL doesn't upgrade to a 1 BR Pres. but will to 2 BR Pres makes a lot of sense or maybe it's an option OC didn't tell you. This will make auto upgrades less likely to happen 

I can tell you my auto upgrade for Oceanside Pier shows upgrade to better view as the option chosen. OC it will upgrade 2BR oceanview to 2BR oceanfront


----------



## Braindead

ronparise said:


> it seems to me, booking anything, expecting something else, is not a reasonable thing to do. You really ought to book what you need.


Ron
I and others offered support to you and others through the suspensions-audits. Others sent you negative PMs. Were any of those locked out this week ?  I know you wouldn't wish harm on anyone. But did you get a smile and think be careful what you wish for at some locked out?


----------



## cayman01

nicemann said:


> Helpful hint from Facebook user Lisa B.  You can get the same kind of result by searching for the exact dates but you have to keep trying different ones till you find a date that works.  This way you can find a date for say a 1 bedroom on the calendar and go back and see what other ones are available.



There is no need to book a room and then back out of it. When you go to enter a destination do NOT pick a resort. Pick and area or state and date range that you want to go and all available rooms show up.


----------



## ronparise

so now I can log into my old "frozen" accounts that still hold a couple of contracts that have been sold, but not yet settled. These accounts are still frozen.

and I can log into an account that is owned by an LLC, client of mine. Like everyone else we cant see points status, but everything else seems to be working

 Reservations made before last week have either the LLCs name on them as the traveler, or they have the name of the person who's name is on the deed or a guest's name.. ie the reservations came over to the new website exactly as they should have.

but heres the odd thing. I made a reservation in this account today through the LLC's log in and now the reservation is in the list of reservations with no name attached, Not the LLC, not the name of the LLCs owner, and not a guests name,

I clicked on the "modify" button to add a guests name and I was given the choice to add the LLCs manager's name, a guests name or the LLCs name. And heres the really odd thing. The LLC was listed 4 times (spelled exactly the same way) I wonder if Ill be able to have multiple reservations for the same date without the need to pay the $99 guest fee

heres what the page looks like


----------



## Roger830

bendadin said:


> So as far as I can see, it doesn't like Chrome. There were no hyperlinks to launch RCI.



RCI is available with Chrome for me.

It's under "Ownership Details" then "Exchanges"


----------



## ronparise

duplicate


----------



## markb53

cayman01 said:


> There is no need to book a room and then back out of it. When you go to enter a destination do NOT pick a resort. Pick and area or state and date range that you want to go and all available rooms show up.



For me using that method, the BOOK button just brings up the spinner for a brief second and does nothing. If I want to book what I see, I have to then put in the resort name and date, and book from there. It is a nice feature for searching across a state or region for what is available for a particular period (3,4,7,14 days etc.). It would be even nicer if once you found something you could just click BOOK, and make it happen.


----------



## OutSkiing

cayman01 said:


> There is no need to book a room and then back out of it. When you go to enter a destination do NOT pick a resort. Pick and area or state and date range that you want to go and all available rooms show up.


Yes, I even did a search where I somehow did not enter an area .. entered a beginning / ending date in August and it gave me back all room types available for all Wyndhams anywhere in the world .. 67 resorts for that search.  And when that result set was showing, if I clicked on Map it put the 67 resorts on the map so I could visualize driving distance.

They might have re-configured the search capability over the last few days to allow this as a result of feedback or because they are more comfortable that these searches won't dim the lights in the computer room.

The main thing missing from filtering is the + or - 4 days. 

Bob


----------



## cayman01

markb53 said:


> For me using that method, the BOOK button just brings up the spinner for a brief second and does nothing. If I want to book what I see I have to then put in the resort name and date, and book from there. It is a nice feature for searching across a state or region for what is available for a particular period (3,4,7,14 days etc.). It would be even nicer if once you found something you could just click BOOK, and make it happen.


Not sure what you mean about a spinner. When you are at the home page and hit the orange "book" tab you should get three drop down boxes of destination, date and unit. Pick a state or area(NOT a resort) dates, and leave unit area blank. It will give you all available rooms at all resorts in that area. Then just click the orange "book" button next to the room you want.


----------



## wjappraise

Braindead said:


> Ron
> I and others offered support to you and others through the suspensions-audits. Others sent you negative PMs. Were any of those locked out this week ?  I know you wouldn't wish harm on anyone. But did you get a smile and think be careful what you wish for at some locked out?



I'm not sure what Ron experienced via PM but I can say my personal experience was 100% positive of supportive PM messages from Tuggers. That has been of great comfort as the residual impact of the suspension continues on even now.  

The only negative comments were posts here and all seemed quite tame. They were typically from posters who bought into the notion that they were unable to get reservations due to the nefarious "mega renters."   Of course, that myth is clearly debunked.  But that doesn't mean it still won't have believers. Some will still blame mega renters for everything short of global warming. After all some still believe the earth is flat.


----------



## Braindead

wjappraise said:


> I'm not sure what Ron experienced via PM but I can say my personal experience was 100% positive of supportive PM messages from Tuggers. That has been of great comfort as the residual impact of the suspension continues on even now.
> 
> The only negative comments were posts here and all seemed quite tame. They were typically from posters who bought into the notion that they were unable to get reservations due to the nefarious "mega renters."   Of course, that myth is clearly debunked.  But that doesn't mean it still won't have believers. Some will still blame mega renters for everything short of global warming. After all some still believe the earth is flat.


I think Ron posted that he received some nasty or however he wants to describe them PMs. 
We can have conversations of the impact of renting without going personal. I always stated if I was a mega renter I would of done the same thing


----------



## Braindead

ronparise said:


> so now I can log into my old "frozen" accounts that still hold a couple of contracts that have been sold, but not yet settled. These accounts are still frozen.
> 
> and I can log into an account that is owned by an LLC, client of mine. Like everyone else we can see points status, but everything else seems to be working
> 
> Reservations made before last week have either the LLCs name on them as the traveler, or they have the name of the person who's name is on the deed or a guest's name.. ie the reservations came over to the new website exactly as they should have.
> 
> but heres the odd thing. I made a reservation in this account today through the LLC's log in and now the reservation is in the list of reservations with no name attached, Not the LLC, not the name of the LLCs owner, and not a guests name,
> 
> I clicked on the "modify" button to add a guests name and I was given the choive to add the LLCs manager's name, a guests name or the LLCs name. And heres the really odd thing. The LLC was listed 4 times (spelled exactly the same way) I wonder if Ill be able to have multiple reservations for the same date without the need to pay the $99 guest fee
> 
> heres what the page looks like


Nice to know an LLC is a person in Wyndham world. 
Glad I don't have 1 traveling with me. Every time the wife and I get in bed that dam LLC would be sitting there watching us


----------



## chapjim

morrisjim said:


> Publicizing the truth and warning other of the problem isn't solicitation. You gain nothing for it.


If done on Wyndham property, it could be a trespass.  That gets you escorted off the property but perhaps by the police.  It could also get you in court charged with criminal or civil trespass.


----------



## ronparise

Braindead said:


> Nice to know an LLC is a person in Wyndham world.
> Glad I don't have 1 traveling with me. Every time the wife and I get in bed that dam LLC would be sitting there watching us



Kinda like the dog

My problem is that our Xs are in there with us too

It seems that not only are the LLCs people too. One LLC seems to be multiple people or no one

I'll be testing this going forward. $99 saved is $99 earned


----------



## ilya

bendadin said:


> So as far as I can see, it doesn't like Chrome. There were no hyperlinks to launch RCI.
> 
> I have two member numbers listed. My name is on three different contracts with someone I don't know. I wonder if I'm VIP. Lol




I hope that's not my account


----------



## nicemann

happyhopian said:


> Mine already shows this without having to go back. If I choose the resort, insert dates but don't choose a room type is shows me all room types available during that stay period, the problem is that there is no +/- outside the stay like the old system or like any other current reservation system I have ever used from airlines to hotels. I'm just not sure what the benefit is from clicking 'book it' and then going back. I'm seeing the same thing when I choose: resort:checkin/checkout and leave room type un selected. Can someone explain what I'm missing



Correct it should work like that but like you said there is no plus or minus for days.  If you just look at the availability calendar you have to select a room type, so you choose a 1 bedroom or a studio and find dates in the calendar that is available.  Then once you get to the name to put it under you can go back and see all the room sizes.  I tried searching like you did with exact dates but had problems coming back with anything available.  I am pretty flexible on dates so this works a little better for me.

Wish they would fix it so it would go back to have the plus and minus days on it.  Don't know why we can't select multiple sizes when on the availability calendar.  That would make life so much easier.


----------



## markb53

cayman01 said:


> Not sure what you mean about a spinner. When you are at the home page and hit the orange "book" tab you should get three drop down boxes of destination, date and unit. Pick a state or area(NOT a resort) dates, and leave unit area blank. It will give you all available rooms at all resorts in that area. Then just click the orange "book" button next to the room you want.



By spinner I mean the round thing the spins in the center of the page while the system is thinking. When you click on a link such as the BOOK button you get the spinner in the middle of the page before it move to the book page for you to put in the booking information. I guess maybe it is just my account or maybe because I am on a Mac, that will not let me book when I search be region or state. I did just as you mentioned. I picked California not a resort. I picked a checkin and checkout and clicked search. After a few seconds a page displayed when many resorts I could scroll through with all the available rooms with the BOOK button next to each room. When I click the BOOK button nothing happens. If I change the search to just that resort the same rooms come up and the BOOK button works like it should.


----------



## Braindead

Deleted. Same here. Will try the other way mark53 describes


----------



## Braindead

Well I lost 400,000 somehow. Sure would be nice to see where they removed those points from.
I had different credit pool buckets. Whether I make reservation for 2017 or 2018 I have 400,000 less points than OC said all week


----------



## CO skier

wjappraise said:


> The only negative comments were posts here and all seemed quite tame. They were typically from posters who bought into the notion that they were unable to get reservations due to the nefarious "mega renters."   Of course, that myth is clearly debunked.  But that doesn't mean it still won't have believers. Some will still blame mega renters for everything short of global warming. After all some still believe the earth is flat.


Wyndham the Club Manager must subscribe to this belief.  They are actively introducing new Guidelines in Club Wyndham and WorldMark to flatten the playing field.


----------



## Braindead

Called asked for a current point status page to be emailed to see how and where I lost 400,000 points.

That will be $25.  NICE WYN


----------



## buckor

Well, I finally got in. All my reservations are in the system....don't like that I cannot see my points available, but I guess that is still being worked on.

I did some searches and yes, it is cumbersome. They have definitely made it much more difficult to search for available rooms. I liked the old calendar of light green and dark green, at least showing availability. If they could come back to that and at least allow us to select a day with availability, then a unit size, that'd be great....alas, who am I?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

Braindead said:


> I think Ron posted that he received some nasty or however he wants to describe them PMs.
> We can have conversations of the impact of renting without going personal. I always stated if I was a mega renter I would of done the same thing




the comments that upset me were those from folks unaffected by the suspensions  who were watching what was going on as a spectator sport and were really enjoying themselves.  And then there was the guy that said we got what we deserved 

But now that I've reached the end of the tunnel and I'm back in the light again I can see that it was just curiosity that motivated the comments and questions (except for that one guy)


Not to mix metaphors, but I fell into a pile of poop and came out smelling like a rose.  One of these days I'm going to write a book


----------



## OutSkiing

OutSkiing said:


> Yes, I even did a search where I somehow did not enter an area .. entered a beginning / ending date in August and it gave me back all room types available for all Wyndhams anywhere in the world .. 67 resorts for that search.  And when that result set was showing, if I clicked on Map it put the 67 resorts on the map so I could visualize driving distance.
> 
> They might have re-configured the search capability over the last few days to allow this as a result of feedback or because they are more comfortable that these searches won't dim the lights in the computer room.
> 
> The main thing missing from filtering is the + or - 4 days.
> 
> Bob


Now I cannot replicate the 'worldwide' search .. not sure the steps that sent it into that mode.

But I can replicate finding all unit types available for a Region.
It seems that:
1) If you specify exact date range and any region or location, you do see all unit types available if there are any.
2) If you omit the date and specify only the region or location, then you have to first select an exact unit type and then it will show you the calendar with exactly what is available for that unit ... month by month by slooow month as you scroll forward.

Ironically, I can go out to a future month I am ineligible to book and see the availability. I could watch it get snapped up by others with ARP before I get to it.

Bob


----------



## scootr5

bendadin said:


> So as far as I can see, it doesn't like Chrome. There were no hyperlinks to launch RCI.



A VC told someone else to "use Chrome because the site works best in Chrome".


----------



## uscav8r

bendadin said:


> So as far as I can see, it doesn't like Chrome. There were no hyperlinks to launch RCI.
> 
> I have two member numbers listed. My name is on three different contracts with someone I don't know. I wonder if I'm VIP. Lol



Chrome should not have any impact upon the RCI link showing up or not. If I recall correctly, there is an "exchanges" tab on the ownership page. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wjappraise

CO skier said:


> Wyndham the Club Manager must subscribe to this belief.  They are actively introducing new Guidelines in Club Wyndham and WorldMark to flatten the playing field.



Drink the koolaid.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> Wyndham the Club Manager must subscribe to this belief.  They are actively introducing new Guidelines in Club Wyndham and WorldMark to flatten the playing field.



If wyndham believed that it was just the megarenters that was the problem, that would have gone at us directly enforcing the no commercial use rule> They didnt do that There is nothing in the new rules that calls out renting as a problem 

 I agree the new rules are designed to level the playing field, but it isnt an anti renting thing. In fact the megarenters I know welcome  a level playing field.


----------



## jayejayeg

I can't seem to book anything.  I click book and see a blue wait spinner and nothing pops up - nothing happens.


----------



## jumoe

My account was finally released, and I didn't have to go to an owner update to do it. (Checked in on Wednesday night and they told me to get my account unlocked sooner I had to go to the owner update the next morning.... I had other plans for the day and couldn't go.)   
The bummer part, is... on my account I have a father/son with the same name.   They have different addresses and live in different states.  I called them about 3x before the switch asking if both my dad & brother with same names would be ok.  And 3x they insisted that since they have different addresses it would be just fine.....  A fight for another day I suppose.  I am just glad we can see our reservations.


----------



## CO skier

wjappraise said:


> Drink the koolaid.



In about 6 hours it will be a glass of really fine wine -- on the deck of a WorldMark condo overlooking some snow-capped peaks.


It might be worth a toast that I am there courtesy of my ownership and did not have to rent what I own from someone else during a prime holiday weekend.



Hopefully, this post does not jynx my check-in.


----------



## Avislo

jumoe said:


> My account was finally released, and I didn't have to go to an owner update to do it. (Checked in on Wednesday night and they told me to get my account unlocked sooner I had to go to the owner update the next morning.... I had other plans for the day and couldn't go.)
> The bummer part, is... on my account I have a father/son with the same name.   They have different addresses and live in different states.  I called them about 3x before the switch asking if both my dad & brother with same names would be ok.  And 3x they insisted that since they have different addresses it would be just fine.....  A fight for another day I suppose.  I am just glad we can see our reservations.



You may want to fill in the problems/comment card on the bottom of the new FAQs on the website and wait in line for a fix while they are still in a fix it mode.  Same for people who are spotting resorts in off peak times that normally have availability that are not showing any.


----------



## cayman01

jayejayeg said:


> I can't seem to book anything.  I click book and see a blue wait spinner and nothing pops up - nothing happens.



Are you on a Mac or iPad? Seems people are having trouble with "book" tab on them.


----------



## jberndt10

cayman01 said:


> Are you on a Mac or iPad? Seems people are having trouble with "book" tab on them.


I'm using an I pad I see some availability at various resorts and others that say one result found but show nothing. Still can't imagine there is nothing in Nashville till November when 2 days prior to new system there was plenty. That's what I get for waiting.


----------



## jayejayeg

cayman01 said:


> Are you on a Mac or iPad? Seems people are having trouble with "book" tab on them.



Nope.  I'm on a laptop with Windows 10.  I finally got it to work, but I logged out, cleared my cache, logged back in, kept trying, and I was finally able to get it booked.  Now I just wish I had more points this year.  LOL

I am waiting on another contract that we purchased to appear.  I received a copy of the deed at end of April, but was told that it was taking 8-10 weeks for transfers.  :/


----------



## bbodb1

markb53 said:


> By spinner I mean the round thing the spins in the center of the page while the system is thinking. When you click on a link such as the BOOK button you get the spinner in the middle of the page before it move to the book page for you to put in the booking information. I guess maybe it is just my account or maybe because I am on a Mac, that will not let me book when I search be region or state. I did just as you mentioned. I picked California not a resort. I picked a checkin and checkout and clicked search. After a few seconds a page displayed when many resorts I could scroll through with all the available rooms with the BOOK button next to each room. When I click the BOOK button nothing happens. If I change the search to just that resort the same rooms come up and the BOOK button works like it should.


The spinner Mark refers to here is otherwise known as the spinning beach ball of death - a distant relative of the BSOD in Windows world (BSOD - blue screen of death).....


----------



## MaryBella7

jumoe said:


> My account was finally released, and I didn't have to go to an owner update to do it. (Checked in on Wednesday night and they told me to get my account unlocked sooner I had to go to the owner update the next morning.... I had other plans for the day and couldn't go.)
> The bummer part, is... on my account I have a father/son with the same name.   They have different addresses and live in different states.  I called them about 3x before the switch asking if both my dad & brother with same names would be ok.  And 3x they insisted that since they have different addresses it would be just fine.....  A fight for another day I suppose.  I am just glad we can see our reservations.



Have a copy of the deed(s) with the names on them and/or copies of the 2 different ID cards (driver's licences).  Contact the Title department, and they should give you an email address to send that info to have it fixed ... I hope.


----------



## jumoe

Oh... I get a message that I can't book.  So I can SEE my reservations, search.... but not book or change (or add guest confirmation).  Anyone else partially released???


----------



## Avislo

Can you book by calling in the reservation?


----------



## Avislo

The Central Collection as defined by the New Web Site.

"Craving an adrenaline rush? Claim a spot at one of our faster-paced metropolitan resorts.

Who says you have to take it easy on vacation? The Central CollectionSM is your gateway to the unparalleled entertainment and nonstop excitement of America’s biggest cities, where dancing to the beat of your own drum isn’t just encouraged — it’s expected!

Take the architectual boat tour along the Chicago River while staying at Wyndham Grand Chicago Riverfront, enjoy some beneigts al fresco when you visit Wyndham La Belle Maison or take in some of the most historic sites in the country on a trip to Wyndham Vacation Resorts at National Harbor. Whatever big-city adventures are on your bucket list, you're sure to find the perfect escape with The Central Collection. There’s a unique atmosphere that thrives in these hot spots, providing a metropolitan melting pot of tall buildings, lively locals, culture around every corner and amazing eats from all over the globe."

The site has pictures of Resorts that are in the collection.


----------



## Designerd

@abeachbum
Where did you see the point history/transaction detail?  Thanks


----------



## Bigrob

I wonder if they are recommending chrome because it works better with the re-captcha. When I use edge I only have to click the "I am not a robot" box and don't have to squint at images trying to figure out which ones are gas stations or have street numbers or any other nonsense.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Bigrob said:


> ....don't have to squint at images trying to figure out which ones are gas stations or have street numbers or any other nonsense.



Some of those images are so bad.  I can't even make out what is in the picture.  It would easier if they used better, clearer pictures.


----------



## staceyeileen

So last night I was finally able to log in after a week of account not available, and then tonight it's acting like I've never registered.  I tried the same username/pw as I've been using and got an invalid login error.  I use LastPass to store and pre-populate my passwords so I *know* it's correct.  

I tried to reset my password, and it told me: The username you provided does not match what's on file. Please try again.

I tried to retrieve my username, and it told me: 
Sorry you are not registered at this time. Please register your account from the login page.



I feel like someone is pranking me.


----------



## buckor

staceyeileen said:


> I feel like someone is pranking me.



Wyndham: "Welcome to your new website!"

Me:  

Wyndham: "April Fool's!!"

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandy VDH

Just noticed this on my HGVC logon page.....

Wish Wyndham would UNDERSTAND what we need and want.....


_Once you have your results, the new booking engine allows you to *view availability across multiple properties and unit types at once* without having to refer to individual resort pages. And if you are *flexible with your dates, you can easily slide them forward or backward to find the availability that works for you*._


----------



## staceyeileen

Sigh.  I re-registered.

When you're looking at the availability calendar for a resort, why does it constantly switch back to May 2017 if you change your unit type?  is it doing that for anyone else?


----------



## Avislo

staceyeileen said:


> Sigh.  I re-registered.
> 
> When you're looking at the availability calendar for a resort, why does it constantly switch back to May 2017 if you change your unit type?  is it doing that for anyone else?



Yes


----------



## Sandy VDH

staceyeileen said:


> Sigh.  I re-registered.
> 
> When you're looking at the availability calendar for a resort, why does it constantly switch back to May 2017 if you change your unit type?  is it doing that for anyone else?




yes it is, and it is just adding insult to injury, as far as the search function goes.  

I have decided that it might be faster, in terms of the time, and number of clicks required, to actually search for a 2 day interval starting at the beginnin of the month your looking for, and then from there one you found something to aim at, then add additionals day to see what is attached to that find (if any).  That monthly for a single resort/unit type seems usually, but it is a nightmare if you are not looking at the currently month. 

I put a request for a drop down the month desired, but it does take too long for each month to load, EVEN WHEN I DON"T WANT that month, but it is the only way to get to the month I want.


----------



## Avislo

The wishlist let me add resorts.  After a resort is added, it will let you click on it and go through the search to book button.


----------



## cyseitz

staceyeileen said:


> Sigh.  I re-registered.
> 
> When you're looking at the availability calendar for a resort, why does it constantly switch back to May 2017 if you change your unit type?  is it doing that for anyone else?


Yes, it is.  It is very annoying!


----------



## markb53

Change in how APR works. 
I own 182k in CWA (developer purchased) and 210k EOY even at Panama City Beach (resale). All my points (494k) are in the credit pool through 2019. My next regular points are in 2020 for both CWA and PCB. 

In the old system when I called in to book at a CWA resort, an APR reservation, I could not use credit pooled points. With the new system when I try to book during the express window or srandard window the system says I have 494k point available. If I try to book in the APR window it says I have 182k available. Even though that 182k is entirely within my 494k in the credit pool. Maybe they figured since credit pool is going away there was no reason to spend the time to program that in. 

Anyone know with the new system of moving point to the next use year, will the points keep the ARP ability, when moved, or loose it.


----------



## Sandi Bo

Summarizing Sat. conversation with VC, sorry didn't have to time to post sooner, but I have to stop letting WYN consume my life - there is life outside WYN.

I did not want to transact in the new system until I could verify the points from the old. I was given access about 10:30 CT Friday night. Yesterday, Saturday, I spoke with a VC to do as such, here's the gist of that conversation:
* Points balance tab, said it was working but was taken down due to bug, they are working on it. (DUH,sorry to state the obvious)
* Indicated my points may still be adjusted (one reason they don't want to show them to us yet)
   - But she could tell me what my balance was when the old system went down, they have read-only access to it.  I don't need that (I have screen shots) that's what I'm trying to balance to.
* After my insistence, explanation of why I wanted the breakdown of points in the new system (so I could validate my account before transacting), she gave it to me. 
* Some buckets of points are negative. But overall totals balance to the screenshots taken on May 19th (when our points screens on the old system had updated/site was offline). I did need to subtract the negatives (not sure why WYN didn't or doesn't do that now, or where the funky negatives came from - I suspect an issue with the old credit pooling logic - these are credit pooled points). 
Other topics discussed:
* No way to see total number of GC's available (just see that you have 1 or more).  She thought that's a bug. To report a bug, suggested using contact us
* Points deposited versus regular use year.   Said we won't be able to tell the difference (and that it doesn't matter).  After further discussion she agreed with me that it will matter (since deposited points can't be redeposited so we need to be sure to use those first).  Hope she is wrong (about not being able to tell the difference). 
* Tips to see balances, since the points tab doesn't work:
   - RCI deposit screen   (although mine shows 0 available)
   - Points deposit screen  (although mine shows 0 available)
   - Book a reservation (shows total points available, mine shows the number expected)
Felt she was reading from a script (poor thing):
* She was so sorry
* Wished she could do more
* Understands how frustrating this is

Continuing to move ahead on this system is certainly frightening.  All new code and nothing works (seriously what does)? The simple and obvious things are fraught with bugs. What about the things we can't track so easily (like auto upgrades, overlapping reservations, and auto-cancellations). How can the inadequate WYN IT department possibly fix something they got so wrong in the first place. We are moving forward at all costs and one certainly has to wonder what the future will bring.

I offered to my 3 children to be added our account (a year or so ago).  2 of the 3 said yes.  Yesterday I was visiting with the one who opted out - she is quite comfortable with her decision and stated she never wants anything to do with this and wonders why anyone would buy anything from WYN.


----------



## gottashiner

OutSkiing said:


> Yes, I even did a search where I somehow did not enter an area .. entered a beginning / ending date in August and it gave me back all room types available for all Wyndhams anywhere in the world .. 67 resorts for that search.  And when that result set was showing, if I clicked on Map it put the 67 resorts on the map so I could visualize driving distance.
> 
> They might have re-configured the search capability over the last few days to allow this as a result of feedback or because they are more comfortable that these searches won't dim the lights in the computer room.
> 
> The main thing missing from filtering is the + or - 4 days.
> 
> Bob


This would be a great search to have!  Often we don't know where we want to go and I would love to see everything available for the dates we can travel.


----------



## gottashiner

cayman01 said:


> Not sure what you mean about a spinner. When you are at the home page and hit the orange "book" tab you should get three drop down boxes of destination, date and unit. Pick a state or area(NOT a resort) dates, and leave unit area blank. It will give you all available rooms at all resorts in that area. Then just click the orange "book" button next to the room you want.


I get the spinner also- my computer is thinking and not liking it!


----------



## jumoe

Did anyone have overlapping reservations - see the warning, not fix any but the warning is gone, and the overlaps still exists?
I saw the warning once, it gave me a few confirmation numbers to look at.  But now the error is gone - but I never clicked it, I have nothing in alerts.


----------



## Sandi Bo

gottashiner said:


> I get the spinner also- my computer is thinking and not liking it!


At my work, we call that the 'circle of patience'


----------



## Sandy VDH

markb53 said:


> In the old system when I called in to book at a CWA resort, an APR reservation, I could not use credit pooled points. With the new system when I try to book during the express window or srandard window the system says I have 494k point available. If I try to book in the APR window it says I have 182k available. Even though that 182k is entirely within my 494k in the credit pool. Maybe figured since credit pool is going away there was no reason to spend the time to program that in.
> 
> Anyone know with the new system of moving point to the next use year, will the points keep the ARP ability, when moved, or loose it.



I might guess that perhaps the DEPOSITED points are restricted from ARP, as these are NEW and could have been coded to prevent that from happening, but until someone deposits points and attempts this, this will be speculation.

Since Wyndham expected to delete POOLED points altogether, I could see how they would overlook how to code them to restrict them from ARP, since they considered them gone.

So for now it appears that ARP booking is BLIND to what points you use, be it regular use year or pooled points, provided you have not utilized your maximum point value assign to a specific resort.  I have to suspect this is just a coding error on Wyndham's part in regards to what POOLED points can do, could they be so stupid to overlook a basic restriction on DEPOSITED or POOLED points.  I suppose they could, they have overlooked other blatantly obvious business rules before (thus a system loophole we exploit is created).  But if they did code it incorrectly for pooled points, it is a short term problem on inventory access, as once pooled points get used up, the issue will go away.


----------



## Sandi Bo

jumoe said:


> Did anyone have overlapping reservations - see the warning, not fix any but the warning is gone, and the overlaps still exists?
> I saw the warning once, it gave me a few confirmation numbers to look at.  But now the error is gone - but I never clicked it, I have nothing in alerts.


Yes (short answer). I no longer see alerts for overlapping reservations.
Long answer -- seems pretty buggy
-- Had 3 sets of overlapping reservations that showed 3 reservations in each set
-- Fixed one overlapping "set" - instead of 3 alerts, had 11, but it was the 2 remaining sets duplicated 5.5 times 
-- Fixed one more reservation in one set (should have needed to fix 2 in that set) and no more alerts since (never touched set 3)
-- Can see where I have overlapping reservations and no alerts

WYN based on your super flawed alert logic - PLEASE do not start using this logic to cancel reservations (as one would assume you would use the same logic in both the alerts as well as the cancellation process when you identify overlapping reservations).


----------



## Sandy VDH

I changed my names on the overlapping ressies in the old system, before the conversion.  Now in that old system I had a single owner name, but a version that was all upper case and another capitalized first letters but lower case otherwise, so I booked an extra reservation in one of the names to see what would happen.  Because they appeared separate and unique in the old system, as they listed them separately in the drop down owner list

Well I got NO warnings and both the reservations are still intact but now they both appear in the new system as Capitalized first letters but mostly lower case. So right now i have what appears to be duplicate, but the system doesn't think so, because the data provided during the conversion still saw it as unique. 

Now going forward I don't have duplicate name (one all upper, one standard) in the drop down. So that will limit by extra owners to book and hold units with.


----------



## scootr5

Sandi Bo said:


> * No way to see total number of GC's available (just see that you have 1 or more).  She thought that's a bug. To report a bug, suggested using contact us



I did find that when you actually go through the process of adding a guest it will tell you how many GCs you have available. The total used and total available show up at the final screen.


----------



## ronparise

Sandy VDH said:


> I might guess that perhaps the DEPOSITED points are restricted from ARP, as these are NEW and could have been coded to prevent that from happening, but until someone deposits points and attempts this, this will be speculation.
> 
> Since Wyndham expected to delete POOLED points altogether, I could see how they would overlook how to code them to restrict them from ARP, since they considered them gone.
> 
> So for now it appears that ARP booking is BLIND to what points you use, be it regular use year or pooled points, provided you have not utilized your maximum point value assign to a specific resort.  I have to suspect this is just a coding error on Wyndham's part in regards to what POOLED points can do, could they be so stupid to overlook a basic restriction on DEPOSITED or POOLED points.  I suppose they could, they have overlooked other blatantly obvious business rules before (thus a system loophole we exploit is created).  But if they did code it incorrectly for pooled points, it is a short term problem on inventory access, as once pooled points get used up, the issue will go away.




If what wjapraise was told is the straight scoop then the individual points have nothing to do with arp. ie. There are no points that are "arp" points and no "non arp points

So, if for example, I own a 224000 point Bonnet Creek contract in a 1 million  point account and I push all of my 2018 points into 2019 and I push all of my 2017 points into 2018

The question is: in November 2017 can I make a 2 bedroom ARP reservation for Christmas 2018? 

Assuming I haven't made any other arp reservations at Bonnet Creek for 2018 reservations, I think the answers is yes

Bottom line is I don't think individual points are coded as belonging to one contract or another. If I own 224000 Bonnet Creek points and I have 224000 points in my account, I can make a 224000 point arp reservation

To be fair, I have no guess as to   how converted fixed weeks are handled.


----------



## Sandy VDH

ronparise said:


> If what wjappraikse was told is the straight scoop then the individual points have nothing to do with arp. ie. There are no points that are "arp" points and no "non arp points
> 
> So, if for example, I own a 224000 point Bonnet Creek contract in a 1 million  point account and I push all of my 2018 points into 2019 and I push all of my 2017 points into 2018
> 
> The question is: in November 2017 can I make a 2 bedroom ARP reservation for Christmas 2018?
> 
> Assuming I haven't made any other arp reservations at Bonnet Creek for 2018 reservations, I think the answers is yes
> 
> Bottom line is I don't think individual points are coded as belonging to one contract or another. If I own 224000 Bonnet Creek points and I have 224000 points in my account, I can make a 224000 point arp reservation
> 
> To be fair, I have no guess as to   how converted fixed weeks are handled.



I have come to the same conclusion. But I also figure that you are only allotted a max points PER YEAR PER ARP, so in a given use year you can only book up to your maximum.  So if you deposit this years points into next year, you can't book 2 ARPs, are you are limited to your cap of points EACH USE YEAR. 

Converted fixed weeks, I have no idea how they implemented that puppy, but I guess I should see if I have an ARP coming up for one of them.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Has anyone located the look up table for what days are in a specific week number.  I have yet to locate one, I had to go to another site to find anything.  

Has someone found access to the check in dates tables?


----------



## ronparise

Sandy VDH said:


> I have come to the same conclusion. But I also figure that you are only allotted a max points PER YEAR PER ARP, so in a given use year you can only book up to your maximum.  So if you deposit this years points into next year, you can't book 2 ARPs, are you are limited to your cap of points EACH USE YEAR.
> 
> Converted fixed weeks, I have no idea how they implemented that puppy, but I guess I should see if I have an ARP coming up for one of them.




I see it the same way. No doubling up on arp. 

I have a patriots place  converted week. I didn't dig out the deed so I don't know which week I own. Last night (just after midnight) I tried to start an arp reservation it was rejected. I'm guessing fixed weeks need a phone call for arp, but I don't know. And since it's not something I need to know... I'll ask about it one of these days but not now


----------



## ronparise

Sandy VDH said:


> Has anyone located the look up table for what days are in a specific week number.  I have yet to locate one, I had to go to another site to find anything.
> 
> Has someone found access to the check in dates tables?


 I looked but I couldn't find it


----------



## shares3

Also, since my account is not working all the way, was wondering if the "explore resorts" section still has the tab where you can put in the distance to determine which resorts meet that criterion?


----------



## WyndhamBarter

shares3 said:


> Also, since my account is not working all the way, was wondering if the "explore resorts" section still has the tab where you can put in the distance to determine which resorts meet that criterion?



The map page lets you pan and zoom; it's *kind* of like a search by distance.  I got to it from the link
"Explore all resorts on our map" shown in small white type close to the bottom of the first screenful
of the toplevel "Resorts" page.

The URL it links to is:

https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/resorts/map.page?


----------



## cyseitz

WyndhamBarter said:


> The map page lets you pan and zoom; it's *kind* of like a search by distance.  I got to it from the link
> "Explore all resorts on our map" shown in small white type close to the bottom of the first screenful
> of the toplevel "Resorts" page.
> 
> The URL it links to is:
> 
> https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/resorts/map.page?


Anybody heard if we are getting the old map back where we can click on states and resorts or will we have to type in the name of where we want to go EVERY time?


----------



## chapjim

staceyeileen said:


> Sigh.  I re-registered.
> 
> When you're looking at the availability calendar for a resort, why does it constantly switch back to May 2017 if you change your unit type?  is it doing that for anyone else?



Same reason your current reservations list is upside down.


----------



## wed100105

I'm at Glacier Canyon now. The guy at check-in told me they were told it could be a couple of weeks before they are up and running fully. 

Has anyone recently (not when the system first came up for a few hours) been able to book Glacier Canyon units online? If I call in, is the availability out there for the VCs to book over the phone? Thanks in advance!


----------



## OutSkiing

ronparise said:


> it seems to me, booking anything, expecting something else, is not a reasonable thing to do. You really ought to book what you need.



Agreed.

Auto upgrades will be few and far between if the only cancelations are people really backing out of their travel plans.  But, people might go ahead and double book a larger unit 'just in case' they are lucky enough to be the one to get it after they cancel.  If you believed you booked early enough in the ARP window to be one of the first to get the upgrade, then it might still be worthwhile to double book a larger unit. If you don't get it, at least someone else will. And if dozens or hundreds of people do this, there will still be enough auto-upgrades to sprinkle a little happiness around.

Way less benefit than getting the discount and the upgrade. 

Bob


----------



## Sandi Bo

wed100105 said:


> I'm at Glacier Canyon now. The guy at check-in told me they were told it could be a couple of weeks before they are up and running fully.


I just cannot believe that this is acceptable and there won't be serious repercussions for WYN. They were in no way, shape, or form ready for this conversion. Released the buggiest, nonfunctioning software ever, and continue to push forward with this fix it as we go attitude.  I can't bring myself to search to reservations anymore, this is just too much.
And I bet it's more than a few weeks. We're over a week into this now and it just seems to get worse, not better.


----------



## Pietin

wed100105 said:


> I'm at Glacier Canyon now. The guy at check-in told me they were told it could be a couple of weeks before they are up and running fully.
> 
> Has anyone recently (not when the system first came up for a few hours) been able to book Glacier Canyon units online? If I call in, is the availability out there for the VCs to book over the phone? Thanks in advance!


 
I haven't seen any Glacier Canyon in the standard reservation period, i only seen in the ARP.    Usually something shows up during the weekdays in October, November, December, ect.


----------



## Pietin

Sandi Bo said:


> I just cannot believe that this is acceptable and there won't be serious repercussions for WYN. They were in no way, shape, or form ready for this conversion. Released the buggiest, nonfunctioning software ever, and continue to push forward with this fix it as we go attitude.  I can't bring myself to search to reservations anymore, this is just too much.
> And I bet it's more than a few weeks. We're over a week into this now and it just seems to get worse, not better.



Sandi Bo, this is't all that surprising in today IT world.  Often the systems are developed off-shore and the contractors that develop these system just adapt prior code.  The companies hope most will work and fix the rest.  You get what you pay for.


----------



## Braindead

Please educate me.
When making a reservation when you get to the auto upgrade you see 4 choices
Larger Unit
Unit With Better View
Any Of The Above
Upgrade me to any of the above.

What the heck is the difference of the last 2 ? How many Braindeads work for WYN  ? Must be Juniors but WYN can't figure out if their me or not


----------



## happyhopian

Sandy VDH said:


> I have come to the same conclusion. But I also figure that you are only allotted a max points PER YEAR PER ARP, so in a given use year you can only book up to your maximum.  So if you deposit this years points into next year, you can't book 2 ARPs, are you are limited to your cap of points EACH USE YEAR.
> 
> Converted fixed weeks, I have no idea how they implemented that puppy, but I guess I should see if I have an ARP coming up for one of them.


Yes this is what I was told by OC about the new system and what was changing/how it was to be.

ARP is a separate database that doesn't look at what you have available but rather looks at what you purchased and what you used for that resort only. If you have a BC for 250,000 and you haven't used it for BC then you still have ARP of up to 250,000 even if you use points from another contract to actually make the reservation. She said this was done because they couldn't control which contracts were used to fill which reservations. So owners would book a beach stay 13 months out and have it take points from their BC contract only to try to make  an ARP at BC for christmas and be denied.

So the system keeps up with my ARP usage based on my ownership for the resort of the deed/contract regardless of what points I used to book the reservation.

I spent 10 hours working through some problems and I got a PHD in this area. I am certain of what she told me a couple of weeks ago but note certain that it won't or hasn't changed again.


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> it seems to me, booking anything, expecting something else, is not a reasonable thing to do. You really ought to book what you need.



I completely agree, and this is good advice but for many the upgrade feature was how they did they bookings. I don't know anyone who just randomly said - "hey's lets upgrade". My analysis was to share with folks who hoped that they could get what they wanted through the auto upgrade feature. By doing the test samples I hope that I convinced many of what you just said - book what you need. I will go a step further - do not EXPECT anything of the auto upgrade feature.


----------



## happyhopian

OutSkiing said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Auto upgrades will be few and far between if the only cancelations are people really backing out of their travel plans.  But, people might go ahead and double book a larger unit 'just in case' they are lucky enough to be the one to get it after they cancel.  If you believed you booked early enough in the ARP window to be one of the first to get the upgrade, then it might still be worthwhile to double book a larger unit. If you don't get it, at least someone else will. And if dozens or hundreds of people do this, there will still be enough auto-upgrades to sprinkle a little happiness around.
> 
> Way less benefit than getting the discount and the upgrade.
> 
> Bob


yes but the best you can get in auto upgrade according to OC is 1br to 2br or 2br pressi. There will be no 1br to 3br in auto upgrade even if it is available, again according to OC.


----------



## happyhopian

New bug!

When searching for a date range if I want to change the date range I must also retype the name of the resort (even if it is the same) for the search button to turn blue again. It is not enough to just change the date and research (and everything has to be done with mouse click, no pressing enter). Again four steps to accomplish what one should have done.


----------



## happyhopian

I only have two upgrade options (with a third radio button offering no option because its blank). Is this what everyone else sees?


----------



## cayman01

Braindead said:


> Please educate me.
> When making a reservation when you get to the auto upgrade you see 4 choices
> Larger Unit
> Unit With Better View
> Any Of The Above
> Upgrade me to any of the above.
> 
> What the heck is the difference of the last 2 ? How many Braindeads work for WYN  ? Must be Juniors but WYN can't figure out if their me or not



I am guessing (not a VIP) that you choose the 3rd option if there are no upgrades available at the time of booking. Choose the 4th option if there are .


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> I only have two upgrade options (with a third radio button offering no option because its blank). Is this what everyone else sees?View attachment 3999


I have the 4 options. Then a bar.
The Please do not upgrade my reservation. Is by itself below about a half inch colored bar


----------



## paxsarah

This is insane. Who tested this stuff?


----------



## John_and_Val

And yet, I have a different screen on the upgrades.....I have two choices...........upgrade or don't. That's it. Nothing else. And I'm Platinum.
*Wyndham............You have further desecrated your business *


----------



## Sandi Bo

paxsarah said:


> This is insane. Who tested this stuff?




I wonder if this might increase the value of resale once the dust settles?  Right now I can't imagine anyone would be purchasing anything resale.  I would expect the only sales right now are to uneducated sales marks purchasing developer points from WYN.  But bottom line, the value of developer purchased (VIP benefits) have just tanked.  Resale is just as good as VIP.  I know some of you always thought that, but now I just might to agree with you.  VIP is worthless.


----------



## Sandi Bo

Pietin said:


> Sandi Bo, this is't all that surprising in today IT world.  Often the systems are developed off-shore and the contractors that develop these system just adapt prior code.  The companies hope most will work and fix the rest.  You get what you pay for.


Agree in theory, except I think this is even worse than the norm. I think this is all new code, not well thought out, not sure what the business requirements were (doubt they were well defined nor communicated), nothing works and no-one (not even WYN) knows how it should work. We know for sure nothing was tested.  

Some folks here on TUG have indicated they set up some test scenarios (prior to conversion).  My money says we've tested it better than anything WYN possibly attempted to.

Pretty much nothing has worked. I've never seen such a POS.


----------



## sandkastle4966

Re:  resetting to "May 2017" with every unit size change

Yes.  and everytime I log in and try again - I hit the feedback button and tell them:
1) every page forward to the next month loads info (database query, CPU cycles, network) to the tune of 8 seconds
2) I want January - that is 8 queries/load etc of WASTED resources and time.  THEIR resources, my time

Let me:
select a month from a drop down - THEN query
KEEP the month I am in when changing unit size
(better yet - then me search multiple unit sizes on the month map.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> I only have two upgrade options (with a third radio button offering no option because its blank). Is this what everyone else sees?View attachment 3999


Try searching Oceanside Pier check in November 11 check out November 15. Don't select any unit type. See what you get. This is outside any manual upgrade now. Please post what you get. I don't know how


----------



## Braindead

John_and_Val said:


> And yet, I have a different screen on the upgrades.....I have two choices...........upgrade or don't. That's it. Nothing else. And I'm Platinum.
> *Wyndham............You have further desecrated your business *


That's all I get when I check Royal Garden. I get the 4 choices at Oceanside Pier


----------



## chapjim

Deleted.


----------



## Braindead

Deleted


----------



## uscav8r

happyhopian said:


> I only have two upgrade options (with a third radio button offering no option because its blank). Is this what everyone else sees?View attachment 3999





John_and_Val said:


> And yet, I have a different screen on the upgrades.....I have two choices...........upgrade or don't. That's it. Nothing else. And I'm Platinum.
> *Wyndham............You have further desecrated your business *



There are many things wrong with the site, but the difference in upgrade options across resorts may not be one of them. While almost all resorts may have the possibility of upgrading to a larger room (unless you already booked the largest), not all resorts have upgraded views or even Presidential units within the same size. Therefore I am not surprised by the differences. 

It does seem that with a fully operative system at a resort with all the options, the logical options should look something like this:

1) Upgrade to larger room (with same view).
2) Upgrade to better view (within room size).
3) Upgrade to better amenities, such as Standard room to Deluxe, or Deluxe to Pres (within room size). 
4) Any of the above.
5) Don't upgrade. 

The phrases in parentheses are highly dependent on their logic flow for upgrades. Including these phrases make the choices more discrete, but omitting them provides flexibility (and ambiguity).

By way of example, I need a room that sleeps 6, so I book a 2BR Dlx. If it is possible to upgrade a 2BR Dlx to a 3BR Pres (also sleeps 6) omitting the parenthetical phrases allows the system to do it. 

However, if omitted, another problem arises. Most 2BR Pres units only fit 4 people. In this case, I would not want the presidential upgrade at all, but limiting myself to the larger unit option may preclude the ability to get into that 3BR Pres. 

IF there really are three categories that can be upgraded--size, view, and quality (Presidential)--a fully articulated option list would have 10 options: 9 for each of the different combinations, plus 1 for no Upgrade at all. 

See how quickly this becomes complex?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bigrob

happyhopian said:


> New bug!
> 
> When searching for a date range if I want to change the date range I must also retype the name of the resort (even if it is the same) for the search button to turn blue again. It is not enough to just change the date and research (and everything has to be done with mouse click, no pressing enter). Again four steps to accomplish what one should have done.



You can modify just the date range. The search button doesn't become selectable, but you can hit your reload page and the search will be performed with the new parameters.


----------



## Braindead

deleted


----------



## uscav8r

John_and_Val said:


> And yet, I have a different screen on the upgrades.....I have two choices...........upgrade or don't. That's it. Nothing else. And I'm Platinum.
> *Wyndham............You have further desecrated your business *



Whether you are Platinum or Gold or Silver, it makes no difference to the upgrade logic. You may be booked into a unit that only has a larger room, with no options for better views or Presidential units. 

I know that in Smugglers Notch, there are different HOAs and it appears you can only upgrade within an HOA (at least that's how it seemed under the last system). 

A 1BR could upgrade to a 2BR but not a 2BR Deluxe. A 2BR Deluxe could upgrade to a 3BR Deluxe, but not a 3BR. 

In these cases, you would only see an upgrade (for a larger room) but not an upgrade option for better quality. 

So all I am saying is that there may be reasons not to have the full list of upgrade options. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

Sandi Bo said:


> I wonder if this might increase the value of resale once the dust settles?  Right now I can't imagine anyone would be purchasing anything resale.  I would expect the only sales right now are to uneducated sales marks purchasing developer points from WYN.  But bottom line, the value of developer purchased (VIP benefits) have just tanked.  Resale is just as good as VIP.  I know some of you always thought that, but now I just might to agree with you.  VIP is worthless.



No one ever said resale is as good as VIP. or that VIP benefits arent real.
Even now after all these changes, VIPs get unlimited housekeeping, and unlimited transactions and a newspaper (gold and platinum), last minute discounts and upgrades.   Its just that these benefits arent worth what Wyndham charges for them

To your point about resale prices. I anticipate prices going down.. There are a lot of folks for whom Wyndham only made sense with the discounts... I see them selling out


----------



## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> You can modify just the date range. The search button doesn't become selectable, but you can hit your reload page and the search will be performed with the new parameters.




cool


----------



## paxsarah

One option they could add to the upgrade options would be a "minimum sleeping capacity" requirement. That way if a person has a unit booked that sleeps 6 and they need the full capacity of 6, the system's logic can eliminate any potential upgrades for instance to a Pres unit that sleeps less than that. Then an owner doesn't need to be 100 percent familiar with the sleeping configurations of each potential upgrade path, but they could rest assured that the system (if programmed correctly - ha!) wouldn't put them in a unit that sleeps fewer than they need.


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> New bug!
> 
> When searching for a date range if I want to change the date range I must also retype the name of the resort (even if it is the same) for the search button to turn blue again. It is not enough to just change the date and research (and everything has to be done with mouse click, no pressing enter). Again four steps to accomplish what one should have done.



I already reported this bug to them.


----------



## wjappraise

happyhopian said:


> New bug!
> 
> When searching for a date range if I want to change the date range I must also retype the name of the resort (even if it is the same) for the search button to turn blue again. It is not enough to just change the date and research (and everything has to be done with mouse click, no pressing enter). Again four steps to accomplish what one should have done.



"Modify" button also is a dead-end for me.  Beautiful job of testing this before rolling it out. . . NOT.


----------



## ronparise

more problems

I called this morning, 90 minutes on hold and the guy then hung up on me... followed by another hour

I wanted to confirm points status...I did this once before, and everything was ok.   Turns out now we are missing 500000 points from the credit pool... The gal I talked to said they had been deposited to RCI... Not the case;  this is a new account and RCI isnt set up yet... at least I dont see a link to RCI under exchanges all I see is the points deposit feature

and no one at owner care today


and she also told me not to ever expect to see points status on the new website


----------



## PeterS

I have confirmed my point balance by the backdoor use of the "deposit points in RCI" link but just don't complete the deposit...
The Points tab in ownership has been gone for days and now seems like a mirage to have seen it at all.

I know they say new features are still to come.... Really! Is checking your point balance a NEW feature?


----------



## uscav8r

PeterS said:


> I have confirmed my point balance by the backdoor use of the "deposit points in RCI" link but just don't complete the deposit...
> The Points tab in ownership has been gone for days and now seems like a mirage to have seen it at all.
> 
> I know they say new features are still to come.... Really! Is checking your point balance a NEW feature?



The limitation of this workaround is that it does not show you anything that has already been credit pooled, only what regular Use Year points you may have.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

PeterS said:


> I have confirmed my point balance by the backdoor use of the "deposit points in RCI" link but just don't complete the deposit...
> The Points tab in ownership has been gone for days and now seems like a mirage to have seen it at all.
> 
> I know they say new features are still to come.... Really! Is checking your point balance a NEW feature?




what she told me is that it isnt coming at all

and how do I check RCI balances??


----------



## OutSkiing

ronparise said:


> and she also told me not to ever expect to see points status on the new website


This would be a complete insult to owners and borderline shady dealing .. especially given their announcement of not only having point status but some kind of new point utilization history.

Bob


----------



## uscav8r

ronparise said:


> what se told me is that it isnt coming at all
> 
> and how do I check RCI balances??



It would be a severe downgrade from the old system if you can never directly see your points balance. This does not seem correct; perhaps she was being facetious.

In any case, you see your RCI deposit points once you enter the Wyndham RCI portal. The functionality of the RCI portal appears not to have been affected by the Voyager rollout. 

I'm guessing you don't have an RCI link under exchanges because this is a new account transfer that does not yet have RCI set up. Could the prior owner have deposited to RCI prior to transfer? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## asreiter

Just looked at booking a 2 bedroom deluxe at Clearwater next March, I have the 23rd as a check in date and the 30th as check out. It gives me the option to book the 4 nights for 182,000 points......ummmm last time I checked it was 7 nights and 325,000 points.


----------



## ronparise

uscav8r said:


> It would be a severe downgrade from the old system if you can never directly see your points balance. This does not seem correct; perhaps she was being facetious.
> 
> In any case, you see your RCI deposit points once you enter the Wyndham RCI portal. The functionality of the RCI portal appears not to have been affected by the Voyager rollout.
> 
> I'm guessing you don't have an RCI link under exchanges because this is a new account transfer that does not yet have RCI set up. Could the prior owner have deposited to RCI prior to transfer?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I dont think facetious, I think she just dosent know.

Im sure you are right, its a new account and thats why I dont have a link to RCI,.. I checked  points status on Sat May 13, and have a print out with all the points showing correctly. and I called right after the roll out and confirmed everything was still there; and it was.   

Im thinking I was working with someone that just dosent know, this morning... or that soneone else has access to this account with their log in.   Ill try again tomorrow, when owner care is back to work


----------



## paxsarah

asreiter said:


> Just looked at booking a 2 bedroom deluxe at Clearwater next March, I have the 23rd as a check in date and the 30th as check out. It gives me the option to book the 4 nights for 182,000 points......ummmm last time I checked it was 7 nights and 325,000 points.



I think someone on the FB group posted about this, as well. There are nights that are unavailable in that range - so what it's saying is that of that 7-day period, four nights are available and that's what the points cost would be. Which is completely bonkers. Who wants a broken-up stay?

Edit: Here's something even more bonkers. It wouldn't let me start to book that 7-night (or 4-night) span, which I guess, yay? But there were two consecutive days available on the 26th and 27th. So I put 26th as check-in - and it won't let me click on the 28th as check-out because it's greyed out (i.e. the 28th doesn't have availability as a _check-in_ date). So I click on the 29th to check out, and it tells me that two nights are 78k points. I can now start the booking process and get a 15-minute hold - so it's telling me check-in on the 26th, check-out on the 29th which would be three nights - but I know the 28th wasn't available and it's essentially giving me a two night reservation (with corresponding points cost for 2 nights).

Seriously, who tested this?


----------



## asreiter

paxsarah said:


> I think someone on the FB group posted about this, as well. There are nights that are unavailable in that range - so what it's saying is that of that 7-day period, four nights are available and that's what the points cost would be. Which is completely bonkers. Who wants a broken-up stay?



Then it should say which 4 nights are available but this still said 3/24-3/30, but that would make sense


----------



## jhoug

sandkastle4966 said:


> Re:  resetting to "May 2017" with every unit size change
> 
> Yes.  and everytime I log in and try again - I hit the feedback button and tell them:
> 1) every page forward to the next month loads info (database query, CPU cycles, network) to the tune of 8 seconds
> 2) I want January - that is 8 queries/load etc of WASTED resources and time.  THEIR resources, my time
> 
> Let me:
> select a month from a drop down - THEN query
> KEEP the month I am in when changing unit size
> (better yet - then me search multiple unit sizes on the month map.




I agree.  I already sent them "feedback" too about that by hitting the tab to the right of the screen and doing their "survey" when I was frustrated trying to find something in a particular month. 
Very bad programming.


----------



## paxsarah

asreiter said:


> Then it should say which 4 nights are available but this still said 3/24-3/30, but that would make sense



The available nights are 3/23, 3/26, 3/27, 3/29.


----------



## paxsarah

But then it let me start the booking process to check in 3/26, check out 3/30. Which as you can see by the calendar above and the point total below, doesn't actually include the 28th.


----------



## Sandy VDH

uscav8r said:


> The limitation of this workaround is that it does not show you anything that has already been credit pooled, only what regular Use Year points you may have.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Not true, available points is current USE YEAR + All POOLED POINTS.  Since pooled points are available to book a unit today they appear in that screen in the transaction that shows you available points.


----------



## paxsarah

Sandy VDH said:


> Not true, available points is current USE YEAR + All POOLED POINTS.  Since pooled points are available to book a unit today they appear in that screen in the transaction that shows you available points.



It would work if you start to book a Wyndham unit, but pooled points shouldn't appear in the deposit to RCI screen (which is what @uscav8r was referring to) because you can't deposit pooled points in RCI.


----------



## Sandy VDH

paxsarah said:


> It would work if you start to book a Wyndham unit, but pooled points shouldn't appear in the deposit to RCI screen (which is what @uscav8r was referring to) because you can't deposit pooled points in RCI.



yes the wyndham booking screen, NOT the RCI Screen.


----------



## WhiskeyJack

Sandy VDH said:


> yes the wyndham booking screen, NOT the RCI Screen.



When I get to this screen and compare the points available the balance it shows is way less than what I know my points balance should be.  I took a screen shot right before the system went down of the old Points Status screen.  When I talked to OC yesterday they were able to confirm I have missing points by accessing their read only screens in the old system.  He then told me he could not correct it because they are still working on moving information over from the old system and that I should wait for the new Points Status screen to show up before calling back to fix it.  (Sure hope the person that told Ron it is never coming was wrong).

Anybody else missing points?


----------



## cayman01

paxsarah said:


> This is insane. Who tested this stuff?



We are. Right now. Just a few kinks................


----------



## wjappraise

WhiskeyJack said:


> When I get to this screen and compare the points available the balance it shows is way less than what I know my points balance should be.  I took a screen shot right before the system went down of the old Points Status screen.  When I talked to OC yesterday they were able to confirm I have missing points by accessing their read only screens in the old system.  He then told me he could not correct it because they are still working on moving information over from the old system and that I should wait for the new Points Status screen to show up before calling back to fix it.  (Sure hope the person that told Ron it is never coming was wrong).
> 
> Anybody else missing points?



I am missing 2,000,000 points for this year.  When I got in last week and tried to make a reservation they showed, now they are not showing.   Additionally, I am missing 300,000 for next year even though I have made zero reservations for 2018.  
I am pleased I took screen shots before the Great Data Migration of May 2017 started.  Wyndham should be ashamed.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## vacationhopeful

Is this a case of consumer fraud?
Poor accounting standards and/or computer programing? 
Just who is Wyndham's corporate auditor who certifies their financial statements?
Send the Club Wyndham management a certified "Notice To Cease"?
Should we escrow our monthly MFs?
Should we demand reviews of records from Wyndham's Corporate and Independent certified public accountants?
Should we send letters to the different state Attorney Generals about poor accounting practices of 'cash equilivent' assets? (our Wyndham CWP & CWA points).
Or letters to the state banking commissions? And real estate licensing & practices commissions?

Or just send a thousands of "Notices to Cease" in mismanaging our real estate with copies to each individual state Real Estate Commissions? Deeded CWP points should fall under the RE commissions where the resorts are located.

This has gone on WAY TO LONG ... IMHO.


----------



## wed100105

I'm at Glacier Canyon, and they called again this morning for me to do an owner update. I politely told her that she didn't want me in a room with future buyers---I would make sure that they knew how Wyndham is treating its owners right now. I went through a long list of serious complaints, and she was very receptive.

Then she told me that it could be weeks before the Glacier Canyon ability issues get fixed, and that she has no clue who decided that this would be a good time to do this.

Adding---I called in to vacation planning. (Thank you to whoever posted the option 3 than 2 trick!) The lady could book Glacier Canyon for March 29th and on out because ARP reservations are in the system. She said they have to hand migrate all the inventory over. They had no idea when this would happen. I'm here at GC, and not all the rooms are full, but they can't do anything downstairs to move reservations. It's nuts. 

Also, the VC told me that they have to use the same system, and that they see the same inventory. I asked if they are complaining about the new search and she said that we should use the owner feedback button on the website; apparently someone is reading those. 

I'm not one to jump on the lawsuit bandwagon, but intentionally making it difficult to find available units and refusing to show you your points balance should violate something.


----------



## topcop400

ronparise said:


> ...and she also told me not to ever expect to see points status on the new website




!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## topcop400

Sandy VDH said:


> Not true, available points is current USE YEAR + All POOLED POINTS.  Since pooled points are available to book a unit today they appear in that screen in the transaction that shows you available points.



Not for me.  Just regular UY.


----------



## raygo123

They rushed it out because of last August.  Very arrogant.  It may be that, "whomever laughs last, laughs best!"

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandy VDH

OK, I got a new issue today.  I cancelled a reservation before the 15 day cancellation period.  today it showed back up in my reservation list.  So now I have reservations I did not make. 

I opened the details and it actually shows that I cancelled this earlier in May, YET it still shows up in the current reservation list, NOT the cancelled list. 

I need to go and check my point balance. 

So check and see if reservations you cancelled are back.


----------



## Braindead

uscav8r said:


> By way of example, I need a room that sleeps 6, so I book a 2BR Dlx. If it is possible to upgrade a 2BR Dlx to a 3BR Pres (also sleeps 6) omitting the parenthetical phrases allows the system to do it.


Sleep capacity seems to be what trips larger unit upgrades. From post
1 BR doesn't upgrade to 1 BR deluxe. Same sleep #
1 BR deluxe doesn't upgrade to 1 BR Presidential. Sleep # goes down

You have to increase the sleep capacity to get an upgrade in the new system.

Husband and wife get nailed on this. Who doesn't want 1 BR deluxe upgrade to 1 BR Presidential. If sales still push this. LIKELY FRAUD
They are going to have to change this.  Repeat buyer empty nesters , grandma and grandpa are losing a huge incentive to buy developer points.

Things don't change. Wyndham had better go to eBay and start buying to raise resale prices. Or in todays tech generation world they might buy their first small point package from Wyndham. But they will buy from eBay after hanging around other owners at the resorts. Resale will only get more popular. Under statement- dramatically more popular


----------



## Braindead

For those that have bought on eBay for more than five years. What was it like back then as far as inventory that sold and didn't sell.


----------



## wed100105

I'm already thinking of adding resale to our ownership. I am hoping to get enough cheap to justify a week at Glacier Canyon in the summer. 

VC told me today that they can't see the upgrades either. I complained that I don't want to put in for an upgrade on a two bedroom presidential and get a three bedroom deluxe. She said that they can't see what the upgrade would be, and since you can't check availability for GC right now, there's no way to know.


----------



## cyseitz

raygo123 said:


> They rushed it out because of last August.  Very arrogant.  It may be that, "whomever laughs last, laughs best!"
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


What do you mean?


----------



## raygo123

I think Wyndham has made itself a laughing stock


Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## Braindead

Last August Wyndham suspended and audited some large point owners. Seems from the outside Wyndham didn't know how to react to what some owners did with their memberships but only that Wyndham didn't like it. Even worse I don't think Wyndham could figure out the activity in those accounts even after they audited individual accounts. Since they couldn't reconcile and understand what happened. Wyndham seems to have severely restricted what owners could do with those accounts until they rolled out Voyager the new site.

So after 9 months it seems to me that Wyndham has freed up those accounts or atleast they have lifted some restrictions. Several have signed settlement agreements and cannot comment on their cases.  That's a shot in the dark looking from the outside


----------



## ronparise

While I'm sure some of the rule changes are due to what they found reviewing our accounts (the suspendees) since last August. The end of the credit pool for one, and perhaps  auto upgrade feature. And no doubt it took some late nights to get them into voyager. But voyager was already late

Last year, at the annual meeting Geoff Richards promised it would be rolled out before this years meeting. The meeting is always in May but this year  at the last minute it was postponed till August. I think because voyager wasn't ready. Now with August just around the corner I think ready or not it had to be rolled out

Now the question is, can they get it right by the meeting. I'd hate to be a Wyndham executive if they dont


----------



## Braindead

ronparise said:


> While I'm sure some of the rule changes are due to what they found reviewing our accounts (the suspendees) since last August. The end of the credit pool for one, and perhaps  auto upgrade feature. And no doubt it took some late nights to get them into voyager. But voyager was already late
> 
> Last year, at the annual meeting Geoff Richards promised it would be rolled out before this years meeting. The meeting is always in May but this year  at the last minute it was postponed till August. I think because voyager wasn't ready. Now with August just around the corner I think ready or not it had to be rolled out
> 
> Now the question is, can they get it right by the meeting. I'd hate to be a Wyndham executive if they dont


I think the rule changes came after actually meeting with some of the suspendees. Because they couldn't figure it out themselves. 

The suspendees taught Wyndham their system. Then Wyndham decided the new rules


----------



## ronparise

Braindead said:


> I think the rule changes came after actually meeting with some of the suspendees. Because they couldn't figure it out themselves.
> 
> The suspendees taught Wyndham their system. Then Wyndham decided the new rules



I know I surprised them a little

My point is that the rule changes didn't have to be rolled out with the voyager roll out

There were other problems that they had like cancellations generating double points back. They were counting on Voyager correcting these computer glitches


----------



## OutSkiing

ronparise said:


> Last year, at the annual meeting Geoff Richards promised it would be rolled out before this years meeting. The meeting is always in May but this year  at the last minute it was postponed till August. I think because voyager wasn't ready. Now with August just around the corner I think ready or not it had to be rolled out
> 
> Now the question is, can they get it right by the meeting. I'd hate to be a Wyndham executive if they dont



So far it's the most incompetent, botched up rollout I've ever seen.  Will probably cost them a lot more now to get it right than it would have to invest in professional oversight, planning, project management, development and testing in the first place.

Bob


----------



## antjmar

ronparise said:


> what she told me is that it isnt coming at all


Where to find your point balance is shown on pages 4-5 of the latest Faces and Places digital edition. Of  course we cant see them (anymore) but eventually they will be back...


----------



## Sandi Bo

OutSkiing said:


> So far it's the most incompetent, botched up rollout I've ever seen.  Will probably cost them a lot more now to get it right than it would have to invest in professional oversight, planning, project management, development and testing in the first place.
> 
> Bob


Wow, we've been at this since May 19th.  That's a long time to have people transacting on the new system. We all know there is no way they ever should have opened up the new system. Seems like they've painted themselves into a corner.  I can't imagine going back, however, I can't imagine how it's going to be moving forward. Absolutely nothing works, there is no way we should we using this new system.  It's going to be a 'code as you go' world for a really long time.  Do you think we're at a point of no return?  If I were WYN I sure as hell would be trying to figure out how to stop this train wreck.


----------



## Braindead

Sandi Bo said:


> Wow, we've been at this since May 19th.  That's a long time to have people transacting on the new system. We all know there is no way they ever should have opened up the new system. Seems like they've painted themselves into a corner.  I can't imagine going back, however, I can't imagine how it's going to be moving forward. Absolutely nothing works, there is no way we should we using this new system.  It's going to be a 'code as you go' world for a really long time.  Do you think we're at a point of no return?  If I were WYN I sure as hell would be trying to figure out how to stop this train wreck.


How would you like to be the new guy in charge ? Perfect time to spin off timeshare division? NOT

I give it another week. If things don't improve drastically. I think some government agencies will start hearing from a lot of owners. Might be some state AGs out there that would love to come down on the biggest timeshare co. Then that will start the snowball going down the hill with lawyers getting involved also.

WYN it might be summer and hot in Florida but if you don't get your act together.  The hot air temperature isn't going to melt that snowball heading your way. I think it has corporate in it's path !!!


----------



## PointedQuestions

I just signed up for this site to try to find some help with that god awful website.  What the hell did they spend our money on for the past eternity they've been talking about this thing?!


----------



## Braindead

PointedQuestions said:


> I just signed up for this site to try to find some help with that god awful website.  What the hell did they spend our money on for the past eternity they've been talking about this thing?!


Welcome to TUG !
Warning this site is addictive and with Wyndham there's always plenty to talk about !!


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

OutSkiing said:


> So far it's the most incompetent, botched up rollout I've ever seen.  Will probably cost them a lot more now to get it right than it would have to invest in professional oversight, planning, project management, development and testing in the first place.
> 
> Bob



Good thing Wyndham isn't in the banking business . 

Suppose folks couldn't see their correct $$  balance - for 10 days !


----------



## Braindead

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Good thing Wyndham isn't in the banking business .
> 
> Suppose folks couldn't see their correct $$  balance - for 10 days !


They want me to pay $25 to get an emailed point statement


----------



## PointedQuestions

Braindead said:


> Welcome to TUG !
> Warning this site is addictive and with Wyndham there's always plenty to talk about !!


Let me know where the sign ups for the lawsuit are.  Geesh.  What an absolute disaster.


----------



## Cdn Gal

I've never seen anything like this with any company.  Usually if a company messed something like this up so hugely they would be looking at bankruptcy.  The bad PR alone along with investors interests you would think would be worrisome to Wyndham.  However with their arrogant attitude, I'm not too sure that they really get how upset owners are.  Wes who runs the FB page has essentially lost all control because people are so upset.  (as they should be)  Previously you would see many people still defending their purchase from Wyndham no matter what you said, but now with all of these changes, people are infuriated.


----------



## Braindead

I trade commodities. 
There's several websites that allow you to sign up and experiment trading commodities or stocks with play money to learn their system. 
Wyndham could of done that with feedback. 
I have never heard of a food company that spent millions to package a product and deliver it to the public without first doing a focus group to taste the product first. I used food but same principle


----------



## Cheryl20772

jhoug said:


> I agree.  I already sent them "feedback" too about that by hitting the tab to the right of the screen and doing their "survey" when I was frustrated trying to find something in a particular month.
> Very bad programming.


I think you might have broken the feedback button. Nothing opened when I tried it an hour ago.


----------



## buckor

PointedQuestions said:


> I just signed up for this site to try to find some help with that god awful website.  What the hell did they spend our money on for the past eternity they've been talking about this thing?!


Welcome to TUG! You will find yourself among like-minded WYN owners.

You will also find yourself among a lot of years of experience to help you with your ownership. I've been here over a year now and have learned so much I think I'm working on a PhD in Timeshares! 

While I do not know that you will get a direct answer regarding your question  (other than "the bungled mess we are working with, which is a waste of money"), it is nice to be among fellow owners who share your pain.

Welcome!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## jumoe

PointedQuestions said:


> ...What the hell did they spend our money on for the past eternity they've been talking about this thing?!


Maybe the $$ went to the promotion.... fancy photos, huge space-wasting photos, cutesy sayings (we are packing...), graphic designers, etc?  Not enough $$ actually went to programming it to function!


----------



## wed100105

Corporate has to be hearing the complaints from their own employees, too. VCs have to use the same reservation calendar and hear all of our complaints. I hope everyone will complain at the resort level as well.


----------



## cayman01

Cheryl20772 said:


> I think you might have broken the feedback button. Nothing opened when I tried it an hour ago.



I think Wyndham has had all the feedback they want for awhile and shut the link off.


----------



## cayman01

I am not so sure Wyndham upper management realizes the problem they have yet. The VCs and OC people do put they are far down the pecking order. The IT people definitely know but are probably doing their best to HIDE their cluster**** from management. The article in the Orlando Sentinel might have raised a couple eyebrows, but I think it is going to take a couple government inquires into Wyndham to really get the ball rolling on fixing this stuff.

 I am beginning to think the only way to fix this is to switch back to the old system and pick up where we left off. It will be May 18 all over again. Anything done on the new system is void. Yes, some people are going to have to scrambl and make changes, cancellations, and upgrades. Some people like me are going to lose prime reservations they found during the chaos. But it is a better alternative than plowing forward with this mess that we have in our hands now. Turn the new site into a beta site that can be tested by owners , let them create feedback for IT, and together get a new system that works.


----------



## GT1

If you look at their Facebook page, "Club Wyndham" hasn't posted anything since May 17 - except some replies to upset owners among comments: "please message us your number so our Owner Care can reach out to you."


----------



## Cheryl20772

OMG! Now I just logged on to see my reservations. We are checking into Lake Marion this Thursday. Now all my reservations are not showing and instead it says this across the top of the page. What is this this "system limitations" they are referring to? What charge? This is garbage! [edited to say my reservations came back, but this 'charge' language is still above them.]

Helpful Tips:
To modify or cancel a reservation select a current reservation below and continue to the next page.

Reservations made prior to May 20, 2017, *will show a charge of $0.00 due to system limitations*. Reservations made on or after May 20, 2017 — and moving forward — will show the* accurate charge* on your Reservation Details page.
​


----------



## ronandjoan

jumoe said:


> Maybe the $$ went to the promotion.... fancy photos, huge space-wasting photos, cutesy sayings (we are packing...), graphic designers, etc?  Not enough $$ actually went to programming it to function!


Yes, I could not believe all the photos and other "pretty" but unnecessary things on the site pages.  It was actually embarrassing .


----------



## ronparise

I bought my first Wyndham contract on eBay in late 2010. I added more on a regular basis for the next couple of years until mid 2016

I haven't done any kind of research or study but I don't think much has changed. Most inventory is from the timeshare relief companies. The bigger contracts and the lower mf contracts sell quickly and for the best prices and the smaller and high mf contracts often times have to be relisted.  There have always been people like me that would take any Wyndham points contract if it was given to them so I'm pretty sure very little Wyndham points contracts ended up on Viking ships. 

Something else to consider is that whether they admit it or not, I believe Wyndham has had straw buyers in the market scooping up Wyndham points contracts to provide ready supply for the sales staff. Wyndhams  development activity has gone down (I think Bonnet Creek was the last from the ground up build that Wyndham did themselves) and yet sales went up

Regarding pricing and supply: it seems to me that there was a lot more eBay inventory when I started and a lot more of it sold for a dollar.  The difference is I think is ovation


----------



## Braindead

I thought maybe inventory on eBay might of gone up over time. 2008 had a big impact that lasted years as you and others have reported.


----------



## happyhopian

Has anyone taken note or done any testing on inventory return time?

I cancelled a 3 br and a 1b for 2 days each. As of 20 minutes neither one has come back. These are more than 60 days out and I just booked them yesterday for the purpose of this test so I only held them overnight. I've been refreshing since I cancelled. Nothing.

However I just booked a 2 br pres and held it for 10 minutes. I cancelled it and it came right back (after confirming that it was removed from inventory after booking it and waiting).

Strange actions. I'd like to compare with others.

**Updated - I did another book/cancel of the same 2br pressi and when cancelled it came back immediately.

**Last Update - I booked a 3br on august 5-7 2nights. there were two so I booked both until there were not more left in inventory. Then I canceled one and it came back immediately. 

It seems that may be marking some oversold again but that is strange seeing that I just booked the first unit in my example last night. 

Have others seen delays? Others experiences?


----------



## Wolf&Sprite

Cheryl20772 said:


> OMG! Now I just logged on to see my reservations. We are checking into Lake Marion this Thursday. Now all my reservations are not showing and instead it says this across the top of the page. What is this this "system limitations" they are referring to? What charge? This is garbage! [edited to say my reservations came back, but this 'charge' language is still above them.]
> 
> Helpful Tips:
> To modify or cancel a reservation select a current reservation below and continue to the next page.
> 
> Reservations made prior to May 20, 2017, *will show a charge of $0.00 due to system limitations*. Reservations made on or after May 20, 2017 — and moving forward — will show the* accurate charge* on your Reservation Details page.
> ​



Those are the same old charges that have always been there.  They only apply if you need to buy a reservation confirmation, housekeeping points, guest confirmation, etc.  Typically they will be zero.


----------



## Braindead

If owners are serious about reporting Wyndham to one or more government agencies. We need to be on the same page.
1. Contact same agency. Same person
2. What do we want them to look into ? It can't be Wyndham has a bad website

Anyone in Florida have a contact they used in the state agencies before?
Is anyone in Florida willing to call AGs office and make an inquiry on avenues we should pursue? State AGs are always more interested in hearing from their residents.
Can any suspendees give any contacts in Florida agencies? 


TUG allowed deep involvement in the election of Kauai Beach Villas. What will TUG allow to be posted ?
Brian has given speeches in Florida. Does Brian want to give some direction? Want to call state AGs office ?


----------



## ronparise

Braindead said:


> For those that have bought on eBay for more than five years. What was it like back then as far as inventory that sold and didn't sell.
> 
> *******************
> I thought maybe inventory on eBay might of gone up over time. 2008 had a big impact that lasted years as you and others have reported.



My experience only goes back to 2010

There were a couple of things that happened in 2008,  One was the last round of major wyndham rule changes and fee increases that targeted the megarenters of the day (no more owner to owner points transfers and limited number of "free" guest confirms  and the fees for transactions and excess guest confirms. Also we were in the middle of a great recession.  Its tough to separate the two when talking about the secondary market for timeshares. Also the internet began to come into its own...

What had what effect, I dont know; but before 2008 the big megarenters were in the 15 million points range. By 2013  I was at about 30 million and I wasnt all that big and the really big points managers handling hundreds of million points were a thing.  Inventory on ebay has gone down since Ive been involved because, I think,  a lot of us  developed relationships with the relief companies and their agents to buy direct

The point here is, I think, that the most recent round of rule changes and the the new website will cause some changes too.. We just dont know what.  What I do know is that every time a timeshare company went after renting, but stopped short of an outright ban, renting increased


so now my question for you..... Why do you ask?


----------



## Braindead

ronparise said:


> My experience only goes back to 2010
> 
> There were a couple of things that happened in 2008,  One was the last round of major wyndham rule changes and fee increases that targeted the megarenters of the day (no more owner to owner points transfers and limited number of "free" guest confirms  and the fees for transactions and excess guest confirms. Also we were in the middle of a great recession.  Its tough to separate the two when talking about the secondary market for timeshares. Also the internet began to come into its own...
> 
> What had what effect, I dont know; but before 2008 the big megarenters were in the 15 million points range. By 2013  I was at about 30 million and I wasnt all that big and the really big points managers handling hundreds of million points were a thing.  Inventory on ebay has gone down since Ive been involved because, I think,  a lot of us  developed relationships with the relief companies and their agents to buy direct
> 
> The point here is, I think, that the most recent round of rule changes and the the new website will cause some changes too.. We just dont know what.  What I do know is that every time a timeshare company went after renting, but stopped short of an outright ban, renting increased
> 
> 
> so now my question for you..... Why do you ask?


Your sentence " also the internet began to come into its own" is why I asked out of curiosity.
From what I understand is an upgrade with the new rules. Nails couples. You have to up the occupancy max to get an upgrade. Couples want a 1 BR deluxe upgraded to a 1 BR Presidential that doesn't happen know destroying their incentive to buy more from Wyndham. For others a 2 BR Deluxe doesn't upgrade to a 2 BR Presidential 
As empty nesters and grandma -grandpa come along they are more adapt to do research and buy -sell online. Online more popular I thought availability might go up and be met with more demand.
I always enjoy your input. Thanks for responding


----------



## jberndt10

I am trying to find floor plans of resorts without success. Anyone know where to find these now?


----------



## ronparise

jberndt10 said:


> I am trying to find floor plans of resorts without success. Anyone know where to find these now?



bring up the resort page 

there is a listing for each unit type

next to each unit type is a  + sign

Click on it and you will see a link to the floor plan if there is one available


----------



## buckor

ronparise said:


> Something else to consider is that whether they admit it or not, I believe Wyndham has had straw buyers in the market scooping up Wyndham points contracts to provide ready supply for the sales staff. Wyndhams  development activity has gone down (I think Bonnet Creek was the last from the ground up build that Wyndham did themselves) and yet sales went up
> 
> Regarding pricing and supply: it seems to me that there was a lot more eBay inventory when I started and a lot more of it sold for a dollar.  The difference is I think is ovation



If this is what is happening, this might explain why the MFs for CWA took a jump this year. If they are buying inventory that no one wants due to MFs, packaging it into the CWA Trust and reselling it, then the MFs for the Trust will be going up due to the higher underlying MFs on the deeds they are scooping up.

If this continues, CWA becomes less of a deal.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

on the flip side ive worked with both Jason Gamel and Jessica Swift to resolve the mess I had with Wyndham and I found them both excellent to work with.


----------



## ronparise

buckor said:


> If this is what is happening, this might explain why the MFs for CWA took a jump this year. If they are buying inventory that no one wants due to MFs, packaging it into the CWA Trust and reselling it, then the MFs for the Trust will be going up due to the higher underlying MFs on the deeds they are scooping up.
> 
> If this continues, CWA becomes less of a deal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk



If they are buying, they are buying everything the good with the bad.    

There was a time that I was taking everything from one timeshare relief company and at the end of the day my average mf was pretty much the same as the CWA mf... ie average.

what most of us here fail to understand is that there are as many unhappy owners at one resort as another.


----------



## gottashiner

uscav8r said:


> It would be a severe downgrade from the old system if you can never directly see your points balance. This does not seem correct; perhaps she was being facetious.
> 
> In any case, you see your RCI deposit points once you enter the Wyndham RCI portal. The functionality of the RCI portal appears not to have been affected by the Voyager rollout.
> 
> I'm guessing you don't have an RCI link under exchanges because this is a new account transfer that does not yet have RCI set up. Could the prior owner have deposited to RCI prior to transfer?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just went into RCI and I have 3,521,504 on deposit with RCI!!  wth.  I should have zero!!  What is going on?


----------



## Sandi Bo

gottashiner said:


> I just went into RCI and I have 3,521,504 on deposit with RCI!!  wth.  I should have zero!!  What is going on?


That is about what I should have, but mine shows zero. Maybe you have mine?  

Correction, I don't have any deposited (it my available to deposit numbers that are 0).


----------



## gottashiner

Sandy VDH said:


> OK, I got a new issue today.  I cancelled a reservation before the 15 day cancellation period.  today it showed back up in my reservation list.  So now I have reservations I did not make.
> 
> I opened the details and it actually shows that I cancelled this earlier in May, YET it still shows up in the current reservation list, NOT the cancelled list.
> 
> I need to go and check my point balance.
> 
> So check and see if reservations you cancelled are back.


I added a guest name to an overlapping confirmation and today the guest name is gone and it's back to my name.  So now I have an overlapping reservation- again.


----------



## gottashiner

Braindead said:


> If owners are serious about reporting Wyndham to one or more government agencies. We need to be on the same page.
> 1. Contact same agency. Same person
> 2. What do we want them to look into ? It can't be Wyndham has a bad website
> 
> Anyone in Florida have a contact they used in the state agencies before?
> Is anyone in Florida willing to call AGs office and make an inquiry on avenues we should pursue? State AGs are always more interested in hearing from their residents.
> Can any suspendees give any contacts in Florida agencies?
> 
> 
> TUG allowed deep involvement in the election of Kauai Beach Villas. What will TUG allow to be posted ?
> Brian has given speeches in Florida. Does Brian want to give some direction? Want to call state AGs office ?




I have a contact for a Supervisor of Investigations at the Florida State Dept of Business & Professional Regulations-Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes.  I filed a complaint regarding the lock on my account and the pooled point problem end of 2016.  He called me numerous times and contacted Wyndham.  


Ahmed Y. Kassoo
Investigator Supervisor-Timeshare Section
Bureau of Compliance
Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes 400 W. Robinson Street, Suite N-908, Orlando, FL 32801 407-650-4075
ahmed.kassoo@myfloridalicense.com


----------



## BellaWyn

gottashiner said:


> I added a guest name to an overlapping confirmation and today the guest name is gone and it's back to my name.  So now I have an overlapping reservation- again.


Add it to the multitude of ongoing "glitches" in the new system.  Had to add GC's to overlapping reservations that showed up post-migration that have the SAME confirmation numbers.  Even had duplicate confirmation numbers on different dates with different unit sizes.  

it also took 7 days and 17 phone calls to get them to ADD a guest name to a reservation that didn't migrate.  Finally made the OC person put me on a three-way call with the resort and told them "we are all stayining on this call until someone from the resort can confirm receipt of the damned email from corporate!"   Everyone but me can see the reservation and the guest information but no one can confirm the guest can actually check in -- SEVEN DAYS to get thus done. 

it's going to take months to clean up this mess.


----------



## travelwyndham

ronparise said:


> on the flip side ive worked with both Jason Gamel and Jessica Swift to resolve the mess I had with Wyndham and I found them both excellent to work with.



I used to agree with you: 
From Jason Gamel 
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Starke - first let me start by saying we do apologize for any inconvenience this delay in converting your resale Shearwater weeks may have caused you.  For that inconvenience, we will waive your past due maintenance fees and any late fees associated with them.  That should allow you to benefit from the use rights of those weeks in the manner transferred to you when you purchased them.

Unfortunately, we are still unable to process the conversions at this time.  Hopefully we will be in a position in the near future to do so.  Since the conversion has taken this long we are more than willing to reverse your March 22 sale and refund you any monies that you have paid on that purchase.  Or, you can keep the purchase and we will process the conversion in the near future.  Just let us know how you would like to proceed.

In the meantime, please direct any and all communication to me via email.  I will not be responding to any calls or texts that you make to my person cell phone from this point forward.

Jason Gamel, SVP-Legal
(407) 626-5226

This was written in December… by February they had started the pre foreclosure process on the 2 properties/conversions that they had promised to take care of. Thankfully, we caught it before the actual foreclosure, got them to pay the dues for last year and paid the dues for this year… Now they just sit there. We can’t use them, we can’t sell them and if we don’t pay next years maintenance fees, they will go into foreclosure and our credit scores will be dinged.


----------



## WyndhamBarter

Um, the Points Balance (and History) page has just started working for me!!

Does anyone else see this?  I haven't even checked yet to see if I believe
the balances...I got so excited seeing it for the first tie on Voyager!

Here's the URL again:

https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/ownership/points-balance.page?

...and it came from a link that is probably visible near the bottom
of the detail page for an existing reservation.

Hallelujah?


----------



## Wolf&Sprite

I just logged on to my account and there was actually a points tab.  I have not seen that since the preview site.  The data is presented totally different than it was before and is a bit confusing.  There is also a point history showing all transactions, at least since the site went live.


----------



## Roger830

Wolf&Sprite said:


> I just logged on to my account and there was actually a points tab.



Where is it located? I don't see one.


----------



## cyseitz

Roger830 said:


> Where is it located? I don't see one.


Go to the "My Ownership" tab.  It is in there.


----------



## Sandi Bo

Wolf&Sprite said:


> I just logged on to my account and there was actually a points tab.  I have not seen that since the preview site.  The data is presented totally different than it was before and is a bit confusing.  There is also a point history showing all transactions, at least since the site went live.



I guess we can call this progress.   

This does not increase my confidence whatsoever that we should trudge forward with this mess.


----------



## Roger830

I have this message:

"New Features Status
Please keep in the mind some of the new features and functionality may be temporarily unavailable over the next few days as we continue to upgrade your online experience. We appreciate your patience and understanding."

Possibly because I credit pooled points 4 days before the site shut down and only some housekeeping got moved.


----------



## ilya

travelwyndham said:


> I used to agree with you:
> From Jason Gamel
> Dear Mr. and Mrs. Starke - first let me start by saying we do apologize for any inconvenience this delay in converting your resale Shearwater weeks may have caused you.  For that inconvenience, we will waive your past due maintenance fees and any late fees associated with them.  That should allow you to benefit from the use rights of those weeks in the manner transferred to you when you purchased them.
> 
> Unfortunately, we are still unable to process the conversions at this time.  Hopefully we will be in a position in the near future to do so.  Since the conversion has taken this long we are more than willing to reverse your March 22 sale and refund you any monies that you have paid on that purchase.  Or, you can keep the purchase and we will process the conversion in the near future.  Just let us know how you would like to proceed.
> 
> In the meantime, please direct any and all communication to me via email.  I will not be responding to any calls or texts that you make to my person cell phone from this point forward.
> 
> Jason Gamel, SVP-Legal
> (407) 626-5226
> 
> This was written in December… by February they had started the pre foreclosure process on the 2 properties/conversions that they had promised to take care of. Thankfully, we caught it before the actual foreclosure, got them to pay the dues for last year and paid the dues for this year… Now they just sit there. We can’t use them, we can’t sell them and if we don’t pay next years maintenance fees, they will go into foreclosure and our credit scores will be dinged.




That is just crazy...Why can't they convert them?


----------



## Sandi Bo

Sandi Bo said:


> I guess we can call this progress.
> 
> This does not increase my confidence whatsoever that we should trudge forward with this mess.



(Sorry couldn't get the image to post on my Mac)


----------



## Aussiedog

I looked all over the site and could not find a points tab.  I just tried to call, and the estimated wait time is greater than 60 minutes....

Ann


----------



## Aussiedog

Sandi Bo said:


> (Sorry couldn't get the image to post on my Mac)
> 
> View attachment 4018


Nope - that tab is not available for me. 

Ann


----------



## Capitalb

no points tab for me either.


----------



## Pietin

Cdn Gal said:


> I've never seen anything like this with any company.  Usually if a company messed something like this up so hugely they would be looking at bankruptcy.  The bad PR alone along with investors interests you would think would be worrisome to Wyndham.  However with their arrogant attitude, I'm not too sure that they really get how upset owners are.  Wes who runs the FB page has essentially lost all control because people are so upset.  (as they should be)  Previously you would see many people still defending their purchase from Wyndham no matter what you said, but now with all of these changes, people are infuriated.




Other than the Tug's site and FB (which I don't do) there really hasn't been any PR on the TV or radio in my area,  so not repercussions to Wyndham.


----------



## ilya

Pietin said:


> Other than the Tug's site and FB (which I don't do) there really hasn't been any PR on the TV or radio in my area,  so not repercussions to Wyndham.




Sad, people FEAR Wyndham, that is why no one goes any further. FEAR of having their money taken away, vacation ruined  and long term harassment . In other words "Don't mess with the Beast" or else...


----------



## sbthomas

Capitalb said:


> no points tab for me either.


I don't have the tab either.  But I can get to points from a reservation.  Click on 1 of your reservations and scroll to the bottom.  Look for the view points link.


----------



## Capitalb

sbthomas said:


> I don't have the tab either.  But I can get to points from a reservation.  Click on 1 of your reservations and scroll to the bottom.  Look for the view points link.View attachment 4019



That link is great! it also shows how many GC'S are available along with how many RT's.  I think someone was trying to find that info earlier in the thread.


----------



## Pietin

ilya said:


> Sad, people FEAR Wyndham, that is why no one goes any further. FEAR of having their money taken away, vacation ruined  and long term harassment . In other words "Don't mess with the Beast" or else...



Agreed and Wyndham is no help in straightening out account problems.  We had what should have been a minor issue escalate into a 9 month ordeal.  I can't imagine how those folks are coping with large suspended accounts that is a source of revenue.


----------



## scootr5

No tab for me either, but I could get to it through a reservation as outlined in post #934. I don't have the time or energy today to try and work through the mess it shows to verify the totals.


----------



## comicbookman

The link works for me as well.  Actually like the way it displays information.  Just wish the history didn't start May 20th.


----------



## cayman01

Braindead said:


> Your sentence " also the internet began to come into its own" is why I asked out of curiosity.
> From what I understand is an upgrade with the new rules. Nails couples. You have to up the occupancy max to get an upgrade. Couples want a 1 BR deluxe upgraded to a 1 BR Presidential that doesn't happen know destroying their incentive to buy more from Wyndham. For others a 2 BR Deluxe doesn't upgrade to a 2 BR Presidential
> As empty nesters and grandma -grandpa come along they are more adapt to do research and buy -sell online. Online more popular I thought availability might go up and be met with more demand.
> I always enjoy your input. Thanks for responding



I'll bet dollars to donuts that Wyndham didn't even consider the number of people sleeping in a room when doing the upgrade change. All they cared about was no more 4BR for the price of half a studio or 1 BR. It's clear that Wyndham IT has never considered the consequences of their IT actions.


----------



## cyseitz

cayman01 said:


> I'll bet dollars to donuts that Wyndham didn't even consider the number of people sleeping in a room when doing the upgrade change. All they cared about was no more 4BR for the price of half a studio or 1 BR. It's clear that Wyndham IT has never considered the consequences of their IT actions.


Really gets my goat that they are concerned with this when they used this as a selling point for so long...wonder what sales tactics that leaves in their bags.


----------



## paxsarah

Sandi Bo said:


> (Sorry couldn't get the image to post on my Mac)
> 
> View attachment 4018



So, do they think you owe them points or what? How is that even possible?

I don't have the tab, but can get there through the reservation link.


----------



## paxsarah

The points calculator is a potentially useful tool. Everybody should go into the points tab/link and play with it, especially with regard to ARP.


----------



## cayman01

cyseitz said:


> Go to the "My Ownership" tab.  It is in there.



Not on mine. Nothing there for points....


----------



## cayman01

WyndhamBarter said:


> Um, the Points Balance (and History) page has just started working for me!!
> 
> Does anyone else see this?  I haven't even checked yet to see if I believe
> the balances...I got so excited seeing it for the first tie on Voyager!
> 
> Here's the URL again:
> 
> https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/ownership/points-balance.page?
> 
> ...and it came from a link that is probably visible near the bottom
> of the detail page for an existing reservation.
> 
> Hallelujah?



Interesting. When I look thru my account the tab is NOT there. Anywhere. When I plug in your link? Voila!! A Points page and it seems accurate.


----------



## BellaWyn

Sandi Bo said:


> (Sorry couldn't get the image to post on my Mac)
> 
> View attachment 4018


There just are NO WORDs.  Giant FACEPALM WYNDHAM!


----------



## GT1

I find it funny that people are using the "Voyager" name for the website. At last year's Owner's Meeting when the WYN corporate guy was taking about the new reservation system, he used the name and the whole room pretty much laughed at him. SO they roll it out, it's a mess, and they're STILL calling it Voyager.  
Seems like an occasion when laughing at it is what you have to do, or throw your computer, phone out the window in frustration. 

I've been on hold for 41 minutes so far, not a VIP owner, trying to get back some HK credits.  I was able to see points via the reservation tip given above(#935) AND by entering the direct  link posted >>https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/ownership/points-balance.page?  BUT it is confusing to see the regular points and point pool using the dates they're posting. Thankfully I have my own spreadsheet to keep track myself and will go over it while I'm on hold


----------



## travelwyndham

Sandi Bo said:


> (Sorry couldn't get the image to post on my Mac)
> 
> View attachment 4018


Minus points??? What’s next? I’m sorry….


----------



## travelwyndham

ilya said:


> That is just crazy...Why can't they convert them?


They can convert them. Jason Gamel isn’t allowing it. I found out that he actually has targeted several accounts and if those people tried to do anything with their accounts, it would have to go through him. He’s like a lurking co-owner that has complete power over whatever account he wants. Wyndham Owner Care was all over trying to help us. We got to the stage where they said that they just needed to collect the $189 conversion fee and it would be done. Within a few days, that same owner care rep (Monica) called to tell me that suddenly owner care didn’t do the conversions in their department and sent me off chasing my tail. I found out that they did handle it, they just were instructed not to handle it for our account as Jason Gamel had put a suppression code on our account. I bet if some of the other owners on this site did some digging, they would find out that Jason Gamel has ahold of their account, too.


----------



## Sandi Bo

paxsarah said:


> So, do they think you owe them points or what? How is that even possible?
> 
> I don't have the tab, but can get there through the reservation link.



They subtract these from my available points.  Appears to net out correctly.


----------



## wjappraise

Here is what my points status shows:

Available for Use Today
CURRENT USE YEARS
POINTS CALCULATOR 
-6,284,000 / Available Points
Total Use Year Points 4,252,000
Unlimited / Housekeeping Credits
Total Use Year Credits Unlimited.

What?  I have -6 million points?  Guess what - - nothing is correct, except that I have unlimited Housekeeping Credits.    The total Use year points is also wrong.  Glad they brought the "Points" tab back . . . 

So glad they rolled this out, come hell or highwater!!  What a bunch of incompetents at Wyndham!!!


----------



## travelwyndham

ronparise said:


> I know a number of the vacation counselors and owner care folks follow tug, because more than one told me so. I dont know whether or not anyone has "follow tug" as part of their job description, but I assume so, as there is someone within Wyndham that does follow tug for Worldmark... (Hi Stephanie)


Hello to Jessica Swift, too- she told me that she’s seen my posts here.


----------



## wed100105

My VIP upgrade for a guest at  Glacier Canyon on June 6, was just cancelled. I'm so glad I didn't tell my cousin that her unit was upgraded. She is taking her daughter for a graduation present, and likely would have asked more girls to go.

Here's a copy of the email. (This is for a reservation I had previously booked, and had requested for the larger unit after the website "enhancement."

Dear Owner,

Our records reflect you received notification on May 22, 2017 regarding a VIP Instant Upgrade for your upcoming reservation at Glacier Canyon.


This inventory was erroneously made available. We regret to inform you that this cannot be honored due to the error. However, you will receive the originally booked unit size upon check in to the resort.


We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and appreciate your understanding.


Please contact us at 1-866-495-1993 should you have any questions. We are available Monday through Friday from 8am through 7pm EST, Saturday and Sunday from 9am to 5pm EST.


Sincerely,

CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Owner Care


----------



## Pietin

*Registration Is Now Open for the 2017 Annual Owners Meeting!*

Yes just got the email,  I would go but we will not be in Florida till the following week.  To bad there wasn't a way to proxy our votes to TUG member.  I don't think it would change a vote but it may have Wyndham take notice.


----------



## ilya

travelwyndham said:


> They can convert them. Jason Gamel isn’t allowing it. I found out that he actually has targeted several accounts and if those people tried to do anything with their accounts, it would have to go through him. He’s like a lurking co-owner that has complete power over whatever account he wants. Wyndham Owner Care was all over trying to help us. We got to the stage where they said that they just needed to collect the $189 conversion fee and it would be done. Within a few days, that same owner care rep (Monica) called to tell me that suddenly owner care didn’t do the conversions in their department and sent me off chasing my tail. I found out that they did handle it, they just were instructed not to handle it for our account as Jason Gamel had put a suppression code on our account. I bet if some of the other owners on this site did some digging, they would find out that Jason Gamel has ahold of their account, too.



Is it just the larger accounts that he is after.? Renters?


----------



## CCdad

Sandi Bo said:


> (Sorry couldn't get the image to post on my Mac)
> 
> View attachment 4018



Mine was only -525, but it also showed zero points in the credit pool like many on here have reported in the last 24 hours. 

The credit pool problem was fixed at some point, as I would've otherwise had to borrow from my 2018 use year on an express reservation.


----------



## ronparise

travelwyndham said:


> I used to agree with you:
> From Jason Gamel
> Dear Mr. and Mrs. Starke - first let me start by saying we do apologize for any inconvenience this delay in converting your resale Shearwater weeks may have caused you.  For that inconvenience, we will waive your past due maintenance fees and any late fees associated with them.  That should allow you to benefit from the use rights of those weeks in the manner transferred to you when you purchased them.
> 
> Unfortunately, we are still unable to process the conversions at this time.  Hopefully we will be in a position in the near future to do so.  Since the conversion has taken this long we are more than willing to reverse your March 22 sale and refund you any monies that you have paid on that purchase.  Or, you can keep the purchase and we will process the conversion in the near future.  Just let us know how you would like to proceed.
> 
> In the meantime, please direct any and all communication to me via email.  I will not be responding to any calls or texts that you make to my person cell phone from this point forward.
> 
> Jason Gamel, SVP-Legal
> (407) 626-5226
> 
> This was written in December… by February they had started the pre foreclosure process on the 2 properties/conversions that they had promised to take care of. Thankfully, we caught it before the actual foreclosure, got them to pay the dues for last year and paid the dues for this year… Now they just sit there. We can’t use them, we can’t sell them and if we don’t pay next years maintenance fees, they will go into foreclosure and our credit scores will be dinged.




Not to make light of it, but the explanation may be that he was spending all his time in December and January with me.


Pietin said:


> *Registration Is Now Open for the 2017 Annual Owners Meeting!*
> 
> Yes just got the email,  I would go but we will not be in Florida till the following week.  To bad there wasn't a way to proxy our votes to TUG member.  I don't think it would change a vote but it may have Wyndham take notice.



There is no vote


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> Not to make light of it, but the explanation may be that he was spending all his time in December and January with me.


And look where that got us!  How is this statement even helpful to the OP?


----------



## ilya

BellaWyn said:


> And look where that got us!  How is this statement even helpful to the OP?



Exactly. How can you not be sympathetic to someone in that situation. Looks like someone has jumped to the other side of the tracks..


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> And look where that got us!  How is this statement even helpful to the OP?



Im not trying to help the op,  I have enough problems of my own. Im giving him a possible explanation for why Gamel hasnt gotten back to him.. His plate was (is) pretty full.   I know, I am one of his many problems..


----------



## ronparise

ilya said:


> Exactly. How can you not be sympathetic to someone in that situation. Looks like someone has jumped to the other side of the tracks..



Sympathy dosent enter into it.   

as far as taking sides... I dont even understand the problem,  but in my experience there are usually two sides to every disagreement. 

I had my own "disagreement" with Wyndham  and I negotiated an agreement with them so that now I can say "the parties have satisfactorily resolved their differences"  Im probably the only guy here that can say that and i really believe that the only advice on tug that can help the op in his dealings with wyndham is mine... 

The op can learn from my experience or not, its up to him . He can go to this thread  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/account-review-email-accts-suspended.245656/
 for my advice for a successful negotiation with wyndham.


----------



## ilya

ronparise said:


> Sympathy dosent enter into it.
> 
> as far as taking sides... I dont even understand the problem,  but in my experience there are usually two sides to every disagreement.
> 
> I had my own "disagreement" with Wyndham  and I negotiated an agreement with them so that now I can say "the parties have satisfactorily resolved their differences"  Im probably the only guy here that can say that and i really believe that the only advice on tug that can help the op in his dealings with wyndham is mine...
> 
> The op can learn from my experience or not, its up to him . He can go to this thread  http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/account-review-email-accts-suspended.245656/
> for my advice for a successful negotiation with wyndham.




Why would he/she need to negotiate if they did nothing wrong?


----------



## BirdL15

Trying to fit this question into the correct thread. With the new Wyndham Resort site is there a feature to search all resorts based on desired check-in/out dates and/or room sizes alone? I prefer sometimes to check what is available without knowing where I want to go just yet. It's a nice feature to try out new locations IMO.


----------



## ronparise

ilya said:


> Why would he/she need to negotiate if they did nothing wrong?



Didn't say he did.

 And of course I didn't do anything wrong last August either. But my accounts were  still suspended and my income had stopped

I could have done nothing as you suggest, but that's not how I chose to do things.   I tried to understand wyndhams needs And I made sure they understood mine. I also chose to respect them and their position and asked for the same in return

And it worked

I really did fall into a pile of poop (through no fault of my own) and I came out smelling like a rose. It took a little work and a little compromise and a little humility and as I say it worked


----------



## BellaWyn

And for some reason they gave you enough audience to be allowed to negotiate when they continue to ignore others.


----------



## ilya

ronparise said:


> Didn't say he did.
> 
> And of course I didn't do anything wrong last August either. But my accounts were  still suspended and my income had stopped
> 
> I could have done nothing as you suggest, but that's not how I chose to do things.   I tried to understand wyndhams needs And I made sure they understood mine. I also chose to respect them and their position and asked for the same in return
> 
> And it worked
> 
> I really did fall into a pile of poop (through no fault of my own) and I came out smelling like a rose. It took a little work and a little compromise and a little humility and as I say it worked




I am not suggesting they do nothing . I am suggesting they just get fair treatment for what they paid for. I don't know the whole story but am not going to draw conclusions . As far as you coming out smelling like a rose, the only way I can see that happening is if you threw someone else under the bus...JUST SAYING>>


----------



## ilya

BellaWyn said:


> And for some reason they gave you enough audience to be allowed to negotiate when they continue to ignore others.




Exactly, and why was that..


----------



## OutSkiing

Sandi Bo said:


> (Sorry couldn't get the image to post on my Mac)  [the points status info shows].
> 
> View attachment 4018


The points status menu choice isn't showing for me on the Ownership page either. Cleared browser cache in case the old menu page is still showing but doesn't clear it up.

But I can get there as someone else pointed out from the little link on bottom right of reservation details page.

My points balances are right.  They split one of my credit pooled deposits into two separate pieces for some reason .. one shows as available now and the other shows as available starting next year .. but that presents no problem for us.

And yes, the points calculator is nice because it demonstrates your ARP availability at all the various resorts if you choose a travel date between 10 and 13 months out.

Bob


----------



## wed100105

I'm receiving confirmation emails now with incorrect room assignments. I wonder if my points went back the way they were supposed to when I made my cancellations. It was before the system went down, and I could never see an accurate total (lots of bookings and cancellations). I'm glad I am here at GC in case someone has trouble checking in.


----------



## comicbookman

OutSkiing said:


> And yes, the points calculator is nice because it demonstrates your ARP availability at all the various resorts.
> 
> Bob



But it does not necessarily agree with reality.  I have reciprocal arp at Wyndham Smoky Mountains that does not show up in the points calculator, but does show up on my ownership details tab..


----------



## ronparise

ilya said:


> Exactly, and why was that..



Im not sure I understand the implication,


----------



## uscav8r

travelwyndham said:


> Minus points??? What’s next? I’m sorry….



This is apparently an accounting reconciliation. You should have a like positive transaction for a future date. 

For instance, I had a points credit pool of 16,750 that showed available during calendar year 2019, but not for the period beginning today (remember how the old system showed pool credits). In the new system, I show -16,750 for 12/2018-12/2019, but I also show an offset +16,750 that now reflects a 5/2017-12/2019 use period. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandy VDH

I still don't have a points tab.  It is up or gone again.


----------



## ronparise

I see the points tab and it's right


----------



## uscav8r

comicbookman said:


> But it does not necessarily agree with reality.  I have reciprocal arp at Wyndham Smoky Mountains that does not show up in the points calculator, but does show up on my ownership details tab..



Are you looking at 13 month availability, or 11 month availability to test the points calculator. I can't recall which time horizon this reciprocal priority uses. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cayman01

Sandy VDH said:


> I still don't have a points tab.  It is up or gone again.



https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/ownership/points-balance.page?

Try this link in your browser after you sign in to Wyndham.


----------



## uscav8r

Sandy VDH said:


> I still don't have a points tab.  It is up or gone again.





ronparise said:


> I see the points tab and it's right



I don't have a points tab on my ownership page, but I can access my points balance by entering the URL previously mentioned in this thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jayejayeg

Unfortunately (I guess?) we have a resale contract that is pending during this whole website "upgrade."  I don't have a points tab, but I can see the Points link in my existing reservations. When I go to it and look at the 2018 use year, the points shown include the resale contract, but it is not yet listed under the My Ownership tab.  :/


----------



## jayejayeg

And now when I try to log in it just returns me to the login screen.... so I guess the site went down.  Maintenance?  I didn't see anything about it going down tonight.


----------



## jayejayeg

Well, gee... I'm back in now and guess what... I have a Points tab now.  Amazing.  Now if my resale contract was showing up and my points for 2018 use year were correct, I'd be one happy camper.


----------



## jayejayeg

It looks like the availability calendar is now broken... at least for me.  There is no month header displayed (was defaulting to May) and no < > buttons anymore.  Just a bunch of big gray squares where the calendar is suppose to be.


----------



## comicbookman

uscav8r said:


> Are you looking at 13 month availability, or 11 month availability to test the points calculator. I can't recall which time horizon this reciprocal priority uses.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was referring to the ex plantation where it lists what priority you have.  It lists my home resorts, and my VIP reciprocal rap, but not the Smokey rarp.


----------



## cumbres

Points tab last night, gone this morning!


----------



## Sandi Bo

cumbres said:


> Points tab last night, gone this morning!


Mine is still there this morning.  
So are my negative points. 
Anyone know what the Total Use Year Points is?  Under the Points Calculator?   Makes no sense.  Numbers there (depending on what I select in the use year drop down) vary from couple thousand to over 6M (which is not true, not even close, numbers don't make any sense at all to me).


----------



## Braindead

travelwyndham said:


> I used to agree with you:
> From Jason Gamel
> Dear Mr. and Mrs. Starke - first let me start by saying we do apologize for any inconvenience this delay in converting your resale Shearwater weeks may have caused you.  For that inconvenience, we will waive your past due maintenance fees and any late fees associated with them.  That should allow you to benefit from the use rights of those weeks in the manner transferred to you when you purchased them.
> 
> Unfortunately, we are still unable to process the conversions at this time.  Hopefully we will be in a position in the near future to do so.  Since the conversion has taken this long we are more than willing to reverse your March 22 sale and refund you any monies that you have paid on that purchase.  Or, you can keep the purchase and we will process the conversion in the near future.  Just let us know how you would like to proceed.
> 
> In the meantime, please direct any and all communication to me via email.  I will not be responding to any calls or texts that you make to my person cell phone from this point forward.
> 
> Jason Gamel, SVP-Legal
> (407) 626-5226
> 
> This was written in December… by February they had started the pre foreclosure process on the 2 properties/conversions that they had promised to take care of. Thankfully, we caught it before the actual foreclosure, got them to pay the dues for last year and paid the dues for this year… Now they just sit there. We can’t use them, we can’t sell them and if we don’t pay next years maintenance fees, they will go into foreclosure and our credit scores will be dinged.


You got caught in the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. 
I posted that Wyndham stop converting Pahio weeks unless you are the original owner.
Ron confirmed that loophole is closed also. That used to be a cheap way to obtain points that were considered developer purchased points. Making those points count toward obtaining VIP levels.


----------



## joanncanary

my points tab is there and they are actually correct.  wow they actually got something correct. maybe they needed the long weekend to catch up.


----------



## Braindead

cayman01 said:


> I'll bet dollars to donuts that Wyndham didn't even consider the number of people sleeping in a room when doing the upgrade change. All they cared about was no more 4BR for the price of half a studio or 1 BR. It's clear that Wyndham IT has never considered the consequences of their IT actions.


Sure they did. They chose sleep number instead of next step up in points requirements. How else do you explain the jump over several point requirements to an upgrade.


----------



## OutSkiing

uscav8r said:


> Are you looking at 13 month availability, or 11 month availability to test the points calculator. I can't recall which time horizon this reciprocal priority uses.


Reciprocal ARP is available 11 months out, while true ARP is available 13 months out.  Mine shows the full ARP point value at each of my home resorts when I am in the 11 to 13 month window.  Not sure whether it would deduct correctly if I start booking with these ARP points. 

When I select a travel date in the 11 month period, mine also shows '3 points' for reciprocal arp because VIP accounts can have up to 3 reciprocal arp reservations per year at any resort.  Mine actually shows these 3 twice with slightly different names.

But it sounds like those reciprocal resorts written into the contracts do not show up for you .. though I do not have any of those to test.

Bob


----------



## bendadin

Question: When making a reservation for next year am I using a RT from this year since I am in this year or next year? 

My account is starting to look better. We were locked out yesterday. The phantom owner is gone. I still don't have ARP but at least my points calculator works. It is still painful but that might just be that it is a beast.


----------



## Braindead

bendadin said:


> Question: When making a reservation for next year am I using a RT from this year since I am in this year or next year?
> 
> My account is starting to look better. We were locked out yesterday. The phantom owner is gone. I still don't have ARP but at least my points calculator works. It is still painful but that might just be that it is a beast.


Yes this year. You can't borrow or preserve RTs for next year. They are awarded at the start of use year


----------



## bendadin

Blah! The EOY contracts might have to go.

I got 3 for this year for the 140K points. I had a contract come in so I didn't get one for that. So I have to run 140K this year and 479K next year on 3? Ugh!

I have a contract in the works for another 400K annual. So will I not receive those 5 this year as well? Oh, this system!!


----------



## MaryBella7

I have used a guest certificate for a reservation I had this year.  I made a reservation for next year and used a guest certificate. I have none left. I am guessing that like RT, the guest certs are used in the year you make the reservations, not the year the reservation is for?  I like the change, but it stinks that I have to add the guest cert right away for a reservation next year.  At least I won't have to pay for 2 because I have the extra - bright side...


----------



## jayejayeg

cumbres said:


> Points tab last night, gone this morning!



Same here.  I didn't have it last night, then was locked out of my account for 5-10 minutes, then when I got back in I had the points tab.  Now this morning it is gone.  I am a web developer.  Someone please tell me that they are not testing changes in real time.  LMAO


----------



## Sandi Bo

jayejayeg said:


> Same here.  I didn't have it last night, then was locked out of my account for 5-10 minutes, then when I got back in I had the points tab.  Now this morning it is gone.  I am a web developer.  Someone please tell me that they are not testing changes in real time.  LMAO


I wouldn't worry too much about the testing changes real time aspect.  No testing going on here, as far as I can tell.


----------



## scootr5

lhumes7 said:


> I have used a guest certificate for a reservation I had this year.  I made a reservation for next year and used a guest certificate. I have none left. I am guessing that like RT, the guest certs are used in the year you make the reservations, not the year the reservation is for?  I like the change, but it stinks that I have to add the guest cert right away for a reservation next year.  At least I won't have to pay for 2 because I have the extra - bright side...



Yes, as you discovered GCs are used in the year you put the guest name on, no matter when the reservation is for (that is the way it always has been).


----------



## Sandi Bo

Sandi Bo said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the testing changes real time aspect.  No testing going on here, as far as I can tell.



Besides, one would need business requirements in order to test.


----------



## jayejayeg

*


Sandi Bo said:



			Besides, one would need business requirements in order to test.
		
Click to expand...

touché!  *


----------



## philemer

First time I looked at my acct in a few days and no points tab for me.


----------



## paxsarah

Braindead said:


> Yes this year. You can't borrow or preserve RTs for next year. They are awarded at the start of use year



I thought they were awarded at the start of calendar year (although most UYs are being realigned to calendar year, anyway) but I could be wrong about that. [Edit: Double checked, and in the old directory and on the new website, it indicates calendar year.]



bendadin said:


> Blah! The EOY contracts might have to go.
> 
> I got 3 for this year for the 140K points. I had a contract come in so I didn't get one for that. So I have to run 140K this year and 479K next year on 3? Ugh!
> 
> I have a contract in the works for another 400K annual. So will I not receive those 5 this year as well? Oh, this system!!



Once your acquisitions are settled and your points ownership is stable, you will see yourself getting the same amount of RTs every year (just as your MF payment will be the same every month, every year) based on the points value of your ownership, not how your points are allotted in even or odd years. For instance, we are allotted 115,500 points in even years and 423,500 points in odd years, but we are assessed and given RTs based on a yearly average of 269,500. We get 3 RTs every year, regardless. Depending on if I'm using ARP or not, I might be using my RTs the year prior or the year of my points usage, so it works fine for me to have the same number of RTs every year. When you acquire new contracts, pre-Voyager the allocation of RTs for those new contracts seemed to be totally spotty - sometimes they'd give you some, sometimes they wouldn't, sometimes they'd give way more than you'd expect. But in the end it all evens out.


----------



## Richardsdeals

I just used the new website to search for an upcoming trip.

Since this is a "General Discussion" forum, I thought I would add my 2 cents.

The new website reservation system "generally sucks".

That is all.


----------



## MaryBella7

scootr5 said:


> Yes, as you discovered GCs are used in the year you put the guest name on, no matter when the reservation is for (that is the way it always has been).



Thanks!  I never had more than 1, and I never used them until closer to the arrival date


----------



## Wolf&Sprite

My points tab has gone again but I can still get to my points page through a reservation.  I have one category with negative points and the total seems to be short around 14K points based on my spreadsheet.

I was checking making an ARP reservation with my CWA points this morning and it told me I couldn't book that.  It was working a few days ago.  I checked the calculator for a date in May 2018 and it showed no CWA ARP.  That's when I checked my ownership and noticed that my CWA contract is completely gone.

I thought they were through playing the shell game with our contracts.


----------



## njbelf

cayman01 said:


> https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/ownership/points-balance.page?
> 
> Try this link in your browser after you sign in to Wyndham.



This link works for me but I still don't have the Points tab.  

I did happen into being able to search everything for a specific date.

I was at the front page and clicked on the "ad" for Clearwater Beach resort.  It then took me to the Wyndham Clearwater Resort page with a box on the right to  "Book this resort".   I put in dates and left the unit blank.   It then gave me all open units for my dates no matter where in the Wyndham PLUS system, after a long wait of course.


----------



## Pietin

I really just never realized how smart Wyndham is.  That is to say they could have spend millions on dollars to test and roll out a system that actually works but instead they rolled out a system and decided to let the user test it in real-time and report all of the issue it has.  They then take that feature down (like the points button), tweak it and put it back to see if it work.  Not only do the save the cost they would have had to pay a developer, they also multiply the number of tester they have.  We all go to the site, come back here and post our issues, Wyndham reads them, tweaks system again and the testing process starts all over again.  Simply brilliant, and at no testing cost to them.  Way to bring jobs back to the US Wyndham.


----------



## joanncanary

oh my goodness, I see the points tab is missing once again. Glad i got in earlier to verify my counts.  This is really getting ridiculous.


----------



## Bigrob

Pietin said:


> Way to bring jobs back to the US Wyndham.



Well... more like involuntary "Volunteer" (unpaid) work. But you're on to something. Even if only 20% of owners have checked out the new site, that's still 100,000 testers. For FREE! Schweet!


----------



## Bigrob

I wonder how much our CWP fees will go up due to the increased expense of our "enhanced" online experience?


----------



## jules54

I am horrified with the new system. The timesuck is huge. I understand there is a learning curve when a website changes, but come on this is like trying to learn a new language. I myself am certainly wondering my anyone would do business with Wyndham at this point with me having over a million points I'm even considering taking myself out of the Wyndham game.


----------



## cayman01

Braindead said:


> Sure they did. They chose sleep number instead of next step up in points requirements. How else do you explain the jump over several point requirements to an upgrade.



I think you are mistaken as some have wrote that you can be upgraded to a room that sleeps FEWER than your original reservation.


----------



## Braindead

cayman01 said:


> I think you are mistaken as some have wrote that you can be upgraded to a room that sleeps FEWER than your original reservation.


Guess OC is telling 2 different stories. Read happyhopian post 734 on page 30 of this thread


----------



## ronandjoan

jules54 said:


> I am horrified with the new system. The timesuck is huge. I understand there is a learning curve when a website changes, but come on this is like trying to learn a new language. I myself am certainly wondering my anyone would do business with Wyndham at this point with me having over a million points I'm even considering taking myself out of the Wyndham game.


We are too!


----------



## Braindead

cayman01 said:


> I think you are mistaken as some have wrote that you can be upgraded to a room that sleeps FEWER than your original reservation.


I haven't seen these post. Can you point me in the right direction? Only way I've seen this happen is when downgrading. Wyndham taking the upgrade back


----------



## cyseitz

Braindead said:


> I haven't seen these post. Can you point me in the right direction? Only way I've seen this happen is when downgrading. Wyndham taking the upgrade back


This could happen in the case when you go from a 2 bedroom deluxe that sleeps 8 to a 2 bedroom presidential that only sleeps 6 at some resorts.


----------



## breezez

Just imagine if Wyndham IT worked on airplanes!


----------



## breezez

At least now we know who hired the failed healthcare.gov programmers


----------



## Braindead

cyseitz said:


> This could happen in the case when you go from a 2 bedroom deluxe that sleeps 8 to a 2 bedroom presidential that only sleeps 6 at some resorts.


That's the point. Some have posted a 2 BR Deluxe doesn't upgrade to 2 BR Presidential. It has to go up to a 3BR


----------



## wed100105

The front desk manager at GC today told me that they almost have all the bugs worked out and that the new website is going to be great! It will be much simpler to make a reservation. I said, "Are you an owner?" She said, "no." I said, "The new system is awful and it will be very determinate to my ownership. I'd like you to tell corporate that your VIP guest aren't happy."

Honestly, I can't believe the reservation calendar will stay how it is now. The front desk manager here said that they had to start simple for owners, and will increase it as the website is up and working. I should have asked her for the Koolaid she was given to drink. At least then I would be satisfied...

Adding-the resort still showed the larger units for the reservations that had been upgraded and then de-upgraded.


----------



## Vacationfuntips

https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/ownership/points-balance.page?

Thank you for posting this. This 100% worked for me!  I could finally view my points again.  I have no points link anymore in my ownership category. It went missing after a few days of the launch of the new online website. (I posted feedback for Wyndham (using the new website) regarding this issue and other issues I am not liking. I hope others are too.


Using this link posted above, I was able to view all of my points for various expiration dates and use year dates. My credit pooled points showed up and are there!  I just needed to be signed into my Club Wyndham user account.

My login user ID and password don't always work.  I find it very frustrating to have to re-enter my info several times to even get on to the website.

So many issues...

Cynthia T.


----------



## breezez

Vacationfuntips said:


> https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/ownership/points-balance.page?



Thanks for the link this worked like a champ.

This area shows points correct by year, but if I go to deposit points to RCI it shows them wrong.   It is trying to subtract reservation I did in April this year out of next years point balance.   I guess I'll wait till things simmer down some before trying to get this fixed.

On a positive note my points in RCI got extended 3 extra months I originally deposited back 9/30/16 Now show expire 12/31/18 on RCI....   Or maybe that's the next forced rule change moving us all to one use year. 

But it got me thinking if RCI is a separate entity under the Wyndham umbrella how would my expiration date on points on deposit just change.  You would think once a deposit is in their system that would be that.   Now it seems like they are commingling computer systems with RCI as well.


----------



## Vacationfuntips

I log on to the new website mostly from my phone.

I decided to make a new "add to home screen link" typing www.myclubwyndham.com
to my surprise I can now view my "points" from the category "my ownership" like I did originally.  I had this feature before it went missing. Now it is back! 
It goes to the same screen https://www.myclubwyndham.com/mycw/ownership/points-balance.page?

Perhaps, creating a new icon to go directly to the Wyndham website may help fix the problem with the points link from the drop down menu?

Either this fixed one of my problems or my complaints using "feedback" worked!

I hope it stays...

Cynthia T.


----------



## Braindead

Anybody else jump over to the Worldmark side ?  Glitch thread
Some things sound familiar. Locked out - can't access online. Going on for months

Guess there's no hope insight !! No light at the end of this tunnel yet !!


----------



## Braindead

The problems on the Worldmark side can't be all coincidence.  
How does IT keep wages separate ? Who's paying who ?

I'm not buying that WYN and Worldmark IT have complete separate employees and offices. 

Suppose WYN University could be their education. You can't make it as a sales weasel come on over to our IT Department for a job.


----------



## ronparise

Braindead said:


> The problems on the Worldmark side can't be all coincidence.
> How does IT keep wages separate ? Who's paying who ?
> 
> I'm not buying that WYN and Worldmark IT have complete separate employees and offices.
> 
> Suppose WYN University could be their education. You can't make it as a sales weasel come on over to our IT Department for a job.



Neither worldmark nor club wyndham have employees, The employees are all either Wyndhams or the HOA's...  There are line items in each clubs budget for a reservations system. This year the worldmark budget for Reservations is 8,175,974    The capital expense is paid by wyndham, The 8 million has to cover the expense to run it and provide Wyndham with a return on their investment   You will see this years Wyndham budget at the annual meeting Aug 2, and if you have any questions Peter Hernandez will be there to answer them


----------



## Braindead

ronparise said:


> Neither worldmark nor club wyndham have employees, The employees are all either Wyndhams or the HOA's...  There are line items in each clubs budget for a reservations system. This year the worldmark budget for Reservations is 8,175,974    The capital expense is paid by wyndham, The 8 million has to cover the expense to run it and provide Wyndham with a return on their investment   You will see this years Wyndham budget at the annual meeting Aug 2, and if you have any questions Peter Hernandez will be there to answer them


I'm not understanding your post. Is the same IT department responsible for both systems ?  If they are did Worldmark get a new reservation months ago that still has bugs-kinks ? If both answers are yes ?  That's just brilliance I've never heard of before!  When you have a cluster ---- what do you do. Let's have another one seems like a good idea to me ! NOT


----------



## scootr5

Braindead said:


> I'm not understanding your post. Is the same IT department responsible for both systems ?  If they are did Worldmark get a new reservation months ago that still has bugs-kinks ? If both answers are yes ?  That's just brilliance I've never heard of before!  When you have a cluster ---- what do you do. Let's have another one seems like a good idea to me ! NOT



In short, yes. Worldmark and Club Wyndham both outsource their IT - conveniently to Wyndham Worldwide.


----------



## WalnutBaron

jules54 said:


> I am horrified with the new system. The timesuck is huge. I understand there is a learning curve when a website changes, but come on this is like trying to learn a new language. I myself am certainly wondering my anyone would do business with Wyndham at this point with me having over a million points I'm even considering taking myself out of the Wyndham game.


I'm not a Wyndham owner, but have been reading this discussion with morbid interest. The statement Jules makes here is nothing short of amazing--and ought to be horrifying to Wyndham executives.


----------



## jayejayeg

*Down for maintenance...*

*"Hold tight, we’ll be back.*
We’re currently in the process of updating our systems. Thank you for your patience as we continue to upgrade your online experience."


----------



## CO skier

Braindead said:


> If they are did Worldmark get a new reservation months ago that still has bugs-kinks ?


The answer is a definite, "No." WorldMark did not get a new reservation system.

... and if there is any good in the world, it will be 7-10 years (or forever, please, Please!) before V'ger absorbs the WorldMark reservation system.  All WorldMark owners, I am sure, hope Shell Vacations is the next victim.


----------



## rubbub

Obviously there are technical issues that will hopefully be resolved sooner rather than later. However, looking past them for the moment, are there any positives people see with the new site? Purely talking UI and features here, not the associated policy changes.

After playing around with it for a bit this evening, two come to mind. First, I can see the points history becoming a very valuable tool going forward. It's long been a feature that I've wanted and I could not understand how there was no regular accounting record provided, even in a monthly statement form.

Second, for searches where the exact check in/out dates are known, I think I already prefer the way the new site presents the information vs. the old site. All the unit specifications one would need to make a decision is displayed right on the results page and it's laid out in a fairly understandable way. It's also easy to select the area (city, state, region) to search. Hopefully they can expand on this and add in some of the functionality that existed on the old site (+/- days, first available, calendar browse, etc.).


----------



## Free2Roam

The one positive thing (from my sister... I haven't used it) is the ability to use PayPal to pay guest fees (and I'm assuming also reservation transaction fees). Although I do NOT like the change where reservation transactions are per transaction instead of per day

Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


----------



## Braindead

rubbub said:


> Obviously there are technical issues that will hopefully be resolved sooner rather than later. However, looking past them for the moment, are there any positives people see with the new site? Purely talking UI and features here, not the associated policy changes.
> 
> After playing around with it for a bit this evening, two come to mind. First, I can see the points history becoming a very valuable tool going forward. It's long been a feature that I've wanted and I could not understand how there was no regular accounting record provided, even in a monthly statement form.
> 
> Second, for searches where the exact check in/out dates are known, I think I already prefer the way the new site presents the information vs. the old site. All the unit specifications one would need to make a decision is displayed right on the results page and it's laid out in a fairly understandable way. It's also easy to select the area (city, state, region) to search. Hopefully they can expand on this and add in some of the functionality that existed on the old site (+/- days, first available, calendar browse, etc.).


Point history is a big positive for owners and Wyndham. I think that's the reason for the 9 month suspension.  Wyndham had a hell of a time doing the points audit on those accounts. Result they left those accounts suspended till the points history on Voyager.

ARP online is a positive


----------



## ronparise

rubbub said:


> Obviously there are technical issues that will hopefully be resolved sooner rather than later. However, looking past them for the moment, are there any positives people see with the new site? Purely talking UI and features here, not the associated policy changes.
> 
> After playing around with it for a bit this evening, two come to mind. First, I can see the points history becoming a very valuable tool going forward. It's long been a feature that I've wanted and I could not understand how there was no regular accounting record provided, even in a monthly statement form.
> 
> Second, for searches where the exact check in/out dates are known, I think I already prefer the way the new site presents the information vs. the old site. All the unit specifications one would need to make a decision is displayed right on the results page and it's laid out in a fairly understandable way. It's also easy to select the area (city, state, region) to search. Hopefully they can expand on this and add in some of the functionality that existed on the old site (+/- days, first available, calendar browse, etc.).




I think TUG Brian was right with the quote he gave that Orlando reporter. Most of our complaints about the website are about trying to learn something new.  If we can separate our complaints about the new rules , from our complaints about the new website, I think that becomes clear. There are certainly problems with the site, but it looks to me that once they get those fixed, it will just be a matter of learning something new (and thats always a problem for me).  My other complaint can be summed up by saying "why fix what aint broke?"   But having said that, If they improve the calendar search, as you suggest, they will have sold me

The new rules and the new fee structure, on the other hand are upsetting to everyone. Their mission to put the megarenters out of business is likely to be successful, but at what price?


----------



## Roger830

rubbub said:


> are there any positives people see with the new site? Purely talking UI and features here, not the associated policy changes.



The only new features that I care about is the ability to see RT's available and more importantly, the ability to *search by city* and date rather than just region.

After I search the system, won't let me book, perhaps because of a note in my file when they didn't properly credit pool my points 4 days before shutdown. 

I dread calling them again.


----------



## paxsarah

Regarding positives, much as I hate to admit it, the extra three months to use the Points Deposit feature and the ability to do it online are positives (though the reduced extension of points makes it a net negative, IMO).


----------



## MaryBella7

I like that they show the points with each day on the calendar when you check for availability.  If they could get it together to stay on the month you are searching when switching between units, or get all units available each day, that is pretty nice.

It is nice to have the ARP availability online and the points tracker with GC left.  

If I look at it positively, I have fast internet and adapt to change well, so once I am used to the system, I will be pretty fast at getting what I want compared to some, so that may be an advantage?


----------



## staceyeileen

I like the Points history and the points page in general.  Nice that it shows RTs and Guest confirmations.  I like that you can view the Resort details right on the booking page instead of having to navigate to another page, although I can't seem to get floor plans to work. I do like that if you do a region/city search with specific dates it shows you all the reservations available at all resorts on one page. Before it would just show the shaded green calendars for each resort and you had to click through each one to view actual inventory. On the flip side, I most often have flexible dates......


----------



## staceyeileen

lhumes7 said:


> I like that they show the points with each day on the calendar when you check for availability.  If they could get it together to stay on the month you are searching when switching between units, or get all units available each day, that is pretty nice.
> 
> It is nice to have the ARP availability online and the points tracker with GC left.



Oh yeah, I like seeing the daily point cost on the calendar too, instead of just seeing a total for the reservation.  That really makes me think about how much it's worth it to me to stay over a weekend night when the cost difference is right in front of me like that.

Even though I don't have ARP at any resort where I'd actually need it, I love being able to just SEE the availability in the ARP window at high-demand resorts even if it won't let me book it.  That way I can keep an eye on it as it comes up on the 10 month window to determine the urgency of booking.


----------



## spackler

The fonts/spacing is the worst I've seen of any travel website.  There's just no reason to scroll thru 3 pages of fluff to get to each bit of basic information.

If Delta did the same thing, I'd be viewing a full screen of a huge 747 before scrolling down for something useful.


----------



## staceyeileen

spackler said:


> The fonts/spacing is the worst I've seen of any travel website.  There's just no reason to scroll thru 3 pages of fluff to get to each bit of basic information.



I have this issue with a lot of newly re-designed websites these days.  I have pretty poor vision.  The light gray text on a white background seems to be the thing lately, even worse light gray text on a slightly darker gray background.


----------



## Roger830

Did anybody get arp to work at 13 months?

I tried today at Panama City for July 1, 2018 for a week and the message was "all days not available."
I later found that I can't book anything.

Someone on facebook tried to book a week starting June 30 and couldn't because the rest of the week was over 13 months. This could also happen at 10 months, only one day open. 

Did anybody book a full week at 10 months without arp or 13 with arp?


----------



## MaryBella7

Roger830 said:


> Did anybody book a full week at 10 months without arp or 13 with arp?



I did a full week at 10 months.  You can only book out as far as a week past the 10 month mark, but I wanted 8 days. The next day, I was able to get the 8 days I wanted.

I was able to get into the booking process for ARP 13 months out at 2 of my resorts, but not the other.


----------



## Pathways

More items getting fixed and coming online.  Lots of Glacier Canyon and Emerald Grande came available today.


----------



## Braindead

Roger830 said:


> Did anybody get arp to work at 13 months?
> 
> I tried today at Panama City for July 1, 2018 for a week and the message was "all days not available."
> I later found that I can't book anything.
> 
> Someone on facebook tried to book a week starting June 30 and couldn't because the rest of the week was over 13 months. This could also happen at 10 months, only one day open.
> 
> Did anybody book a full week at 10 months without arp or 13 with arp?


Yes. Just booked ARP for July 4th week 2018 with UDI points. 

New timeline to deposit points combined with which year you choose from as a whole is better than the olds points pool. Especially for Platinum owners. You can make Thanksgiving , Christmas and New Year reservations. Then if you need to cancel you can still deposit the points in a future year. That also is a big positive for renters and might make available units go down on those holidays late in the year making ARP more important for those holidays


----------



## ronparise

Pathways said:


> More items getting fixed and coming online.  Lots of Glacier Canyon and Emerald Grande came available today.


others too


----------



## nicemann

Just canceled a vacation I had booked with my 2018 pooled points as my 2017 points were used already.  The points went back into my 2017 use year but the HK credits went back to the 2018 pooled.  Annoying!

On a positive note, been watching some dates at Flagstaff for this winter and weeks that showed no availability at all in any room size now had all the rooms available including the 2 bedroom loft.  Funny how all this inventory just appeared.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Search looking for ANY inventory on ANY day for ANY unit type, is the big black hole that does not work.  If you have a date and location the search works fine.  Looking for open inventory when most things are booked up is impossible and UNUSABLE.

I can complain about lots of other things (font, performance, wacky upgrade processing), but search is preventing me from finding inventory.


----------



## njbelf

Points tab is now available for me.


----------



## njbelf

Sandy VDH said:


> Search looking for ANY inventory on ANY day for ANY unit type, is the big black hole that does not work.  If you have a date and location the search works fine.  Looking for open inventory when most things are booked up is impossible and UNUSABLE.
> 
> I can complain about lots of other things (font, performance, wacky upgrade processing), but search is preventing me from finding inventory.



Searching for open inventory is a hard problem when you open it up to everywhere for everything.  That said, it IS a bounded problem and they could further bound it by asking which sets of resorts you want to look at instead of including all resorts no matter which set they are in.

I have been doing some searches and it seems as if sometimes it looses itself.   That is, it probably tacks on too many variables and so returns nothing even though there is likely to be _something_ for the second week in October


----------



## wed100105

I'm so frustrated searching for units. 
I found a one night stay, same size unit at GC that I already had the next day for. I can't book it, VC can't book it. You have to wait until the 15 day point to book a one-night stay. I cancelled my one night hoping it would come back and I could then book the two nights together---no dice. 

I've been searching for hours, and I have only booked one unit. Super frustrating! Has anyone found a way to search all units available at a resort?!


----------



## Sandy VDH

wed100105 said:


> I've been searching for hours, and I have only booked one unit. Super frustrating! Has anyone found a way to search all units available at a resort?!



The only way that works is if you KNOW the DATE, if you looking for open dates, you can not search that way.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Sandy VDH said:


> Search looking for ANY inventory on ANY day for ANY unit type, is the big black hole that does not work.



OK if you want to be picky, I don't need the entire wyndham resort listing, but by region/state or city IS REQUIRED as search for ANY inventory in ANY unit size. 

I need that minimally.


----------



## wed100105

I just want to see what's available without searching 12 different unit types!


----------



## cayman01

wed100105 said:


> I'm so frustrated searching for units.
> I found a one night stay, same size unit at GC that I already had the next day for. I can't book it, VC can't book it. You have to wait until the 15 day point to book a one-night stay. I cancelled my one night hoping it would come back and I could then book the two nights together---no dice.
> 
> I've been searching for hours, and I have only booked one unit. Super frustrating! Has anyone found a way to search all units available at a resort?!



The closest thing I've gotten to the old system is putting a state, region or area in the destination spot ( NOT a resort), add your dates , leave unit blank and hit search. It will return all availability at all the resorts in that area. Best I can do for you.


----------



## Bigrob

The system has not been designed for the owner who has some travel flexibility. It has been designed from the premise that an owner will have identified the dates they want to travel first. If you know the specific dates of travel, search works fine. Where it breaks down is when you want flexibility and will plan your travel around the availability at the resort, rather than the other way around. 

I am not sure why they did not consider "flexible dates" as a critical search criteria, but obviously it is. Otherwise is it like looking for a needle in a haystack. As an owner... I may want to take my family for a 3-day weekend. Doesn't matter which weekend; could be any of several resorts (in more than one region); and could be any unit type 2BR or larger. This search is impossible to execute.

On the other hand, mega-renters typically target specific high-demand timeframes well in advance. The lack of flexibility for searching dates is essentially a non-issue in this scenario, since all the availability at a resort can be seen if you have specific dates. 

Who is this website designed to serve?


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

Bigrob said:


> The system has not been designed for the owner who has some travel flexibility. It has been designed from the premise that an owner will have identified the dates they want to travel first. If you know the specific dates of travel, search works fine. Where it breaks down is when you want flexibility and will plan your travel around the availability at the resort, rather than the other way around.
> 
> Who is this website designed to serve?



TUG thread on RCI / new website - similar comment a couple of months ago /  probably the same programmers - with the same bias


----------



## gregmcgolf

jberndt10 said:


> I'm using an I pad I see some availability at various resorts and others that say one result found but show nothing. Still can't imagine there is nothing in Nashville till November when 2 days prior to new system there was plenty. That's what I get for waiting.


Hi, I am new at this but just logged in and saw availability for Nashville for June, a couple days in July and a lot more for August, so maybe it was messed up before. And maybe you have already solved the problem. I want to go to Nashville at some point and wondered if it was a fun trip. Blessings


----------



## gregmcgolf

cyseitz said:


> Yes, it is.  It is very annoying!


It is absurd. Some many things create massive amounts of extra clicks and do overs. Insane.


----------



## gregmcgolf

Sandy VDH said:


> yes it is, and it is just adding insult to injury, as far as the search function goes.
> 
> I have decided that it might be faster, in terms of the time, and number of clicks required, to actually search for a 2 day interval starting at the beginnin of the month your looking for, and then from there one you found something to aim at, then add additionals day to see what is attached to that find (if any).  That monthly for a single resort/unit type seems usually, but it is a nightmare if you are not looking at the currently month.
> 
> I put a request for a drop down the month desired, but it does take too long for each month to load, EVEN WHEN I DON"T WANT that month, but it is the only way to get to the month I want.


Totally agree, too many clicks, too many things cause one to have to start over, not user friendly at all.


----------



## gregmcgolf

Sandy VDH said:


> Just noticed this on my HGVC logon page.....
> 
> Wish Wyndham would UNDERSTAND what we need and want.....
> 
> 
> _Once you have your results, the new booking engine allows you to *view availability across multiple properties and unit types at once* without having to refer to individual resort pages. And if you are *flexible with your dates, you can easily slide them forward or backward to find the availability that works for you*._


Amen!


----------



## wed100105

Maybe it's time to diversify with some HGVC! If only they would build resorts near me!


----------



## gregmcgolf

ronparise said:


> Its coming to Worldmark, and to Shell too... I dont know when but you can count on it
> 
> I find it interesting that so many worldmark owners have been concerned about Wyndham making worldmark more like Club Wyndham with every rule change... Turns out its the other way around.. Club Wyndham is becoming more like worldmark,, any day check in, long reservations,  and an anti renter bias
> 
> My observation is that Worldmark is now the better rental vehicle.  If more former club wyndham mega renters see what I see, Id expect rental activity to increase at Worldmark resorts.


I used to live in California and owned Worldmark. Really liked it. My ex has it now and since i moved to TN, Worldmark wasn't really an option since i like short vacation trips, so went with Wyndham. Just became a member. So far, been a nightmare.


----------



## gregmcgolf

uscav8r said:


> The difference is that the WorldMark display style is much more compact and the system is more responsive when you flip the order. This new site is SLOOOOW and the reservation list is spread out so you have to constantly scroll to see all the reservations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree, totally hate it.


----------



## uscav8r

bendadin said:


> Blah! The EOY contracts might have to go.
> 
> I got 3 for this year for the 140K points. I had a contract come in so I didn't get one for that. So I have to run 140K this year and 479K next year on 3? Ugh!
> 
> I have a contract in the works for another 400K annual. So will I not receive those 5 this year as well? Oh, this system!!



Once your new contracts settle, you should call in to request the RTs those points should have gotten you if you had them at the beginning of the year. I've been able to get a few extra RTs in such a situation before. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bendadin

uscav8r said:


> Once your new contracts settle, you should call in to request the RTs those points should have gotten you if you had them at the beginning of the year. I've been able to get a few extra RTs in such a situation before.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Great! Thank you.


----------



## uscav8r

breezez said:


> Thanks for the link this worked like a champ.
> 
> This area shows points correct by year, but if I go to deposit points to RCI it shows them wrong.   It is trying to subtract reservation I did in April this year out of next years point balance.   I guess I'll wait till things simmer down some before trying to get this fixed.
> 
> On a positive note my points in RCI got extended 3 extra months I originally deposited back 9/30/16 Now show expire 12/31/18 on RCI....   Or maybe that's the next forced rule change moving us all to one use year.
> 
> But it got me thinking if RCI is a separate entity under the Wyndham umbrella how would my expiration date on points on deposit just change.  You would think once a deposit is in their system that would be that.   Now it seems like they are commingling computer systems with RCI as well.



Do you have developer points? I do and I get extra months for RCI deposits. If I deposit before August 31st, the deposit will expire on August 31 two years after the deposit. If I deposit on or after September 1, it expires on August 31 of the third year. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uscav8r

Sandy VDH said:


> Search looking for ANY inventory on ANY day for ANY unit type, is the big black hole that does not work.  If you have a date and location the search works fine.  Looking for open inventory when most things are booked up is impossible and UNUSABLE.
> 
> I can complain about lots of other things (font, performance, wacky upgrade processing), but search is preventing me from finding inventory.



Also missing is the ability to search for the next available opening. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jberndt10

gregmcgolf said:


> Hi, I am new at this but just logged in and saw availability for Nashville for June, a couple days in July and a lot more for August, so maybe it was messed up before. And maybe you have already solved the problem. I want to go to Nashville at some point and wondered if it was a fun trip. Blessings


I know I tried today and it worked, hooray!! We are visiting Belmont U. so we really wanted to get in Wyndham. Nashville is a blast, we go almost yearly. No matter your music preferences you can't go wrong. Lot's of historical stuff too. Thanks for the update!!


----------



## breezez

uscav8r said:


> Do you have developer points? I do and I get extra months for RCI deposits. If I deposit before August 31st, the deposit will expire on August 31 two years after the deposit. If I deposit on or after September 1, it expires on August 31 of the third year.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Nope all resell.   I am sure it is something messed up with the new system as it always showed the correct expiration date till the new site went live.


----------



## ailin

Pathways said:


> More items getting fixed and coming online.  Lots of Glacier Canyon and Emerald Grande came available today.



This seemed to be the case with Bonnet Creek this morning.  I've been looking for October - nothing available the whole month.  This morning all unit types were available, but now I check again and NOTHING!

I find it hard to believe they were all booked?  This fix doesn't seem to have held....


----------



## chaomandy

IT Guy said:


> I was able to get two upgrades, the first was an automatic upgrade from a 1 bedroom to a 3 bedroom, the second was during the booking process and I got a 1 bedroom to a 4 bedroom.  I will probably never see that again but it was cool.  Not so cool was some of my reservations are MISSING.  Two of the missing reservations already had guest certificates assigned so it could not have been an automatic cancellation due to an overlap situation.  I regret not taking the time to do screen captures of all my reservations.


Do you have to have VIP status in order to get the upgrade?


----------



## johnstonga

*Glad to have "Points Tab" under ownership available most of the time  ... with the Points Calculator.

BUT -- I am still not sure how many points I actually have available to make reservations ...

The Points Calculator, and the reservation mechanism, show I have* *561K points available to use by Dec 31, 2017*  (102K in 2018).
*
The "Available for Use Today" Dropdown menu has 21 different point 'buckets' with NINE different Use Year End Dates.
When I add up each of the 'buckets'*, the "Net" positive point Balance is 76K.*
*many with Zero balances, others with Positive Balances, still others with Negative Balances

*So One Function seems to indicate I should only have 76K available points ... 
.... but the reservation system will let me use 561K points to make reservations for 2017.

What's up with that??*



Sandi Bo said:


> Mine is still there this morning.
> So are my negative points.
> Anyone know what the Total Use Year Points is?  Under the Points Calculator?   Makes no sense.  Numbers there (depending on what I select in the use year drop down) vary from couple thousand to over 6M (which is not true, not even close, numbers don't make any sense at all to me).
> 
> View attachment 4035


----------



## chaomandy

I tried to use the site this morning and accidentally cancelled an existing reservation.  Because it's within 15 days of my travel, Wyndham refuses to refund the points even I would rather keep the reservation and reserve another unit.  I was on the phone waiting for more than an hour and keep on trying different extensions to see if I could talk to a real person.  By the time I talked to a real person, they just kept on it's my own fault and there is nothing they can do and advise that definitely to be more careful next time.  Gotta love this company.


----------



## gregmcgolf

jberndt10 said:


> I know I tried today and it worked, hooray!! We are visiting Belmont U. so we really wanted to get in Wyndham. Nashville is a blast, we go almost yearly. No matter your music preferences you can't go wrong. Lot's of historical stuff too. Thanks for the update!!


Awesome and I do love country music and living in Kingston puts me only 90 minutes away. Hope the Predators rebound in game 3 of the Stanley Cup.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

chaomandy said:


> I tried to use the site this morning and accidentally cancelled an existing reservation.  Because it's within 15 days of my travel, Wyndham refuses to refund the points even I would rather keep the reservation and reserve another unit.  I was on the phone waiting for more than an hour and keep on trying different extensions to see if I could talk to a real person.  By the time I talked to a real person, they just kept on it's my own fault and there is nothing they can do and advise that definitely to be more careful next time.  Gotta love this company.



When you finally have a reservation & travel : be sure and go an the " owner update " so you can be the salesperson's owner from "HE - double hockey sticks" for that week / month .
Talk about it the whole time - then tell the salesperson - you will buy an upgrade IF - they " one time bonus you THOSE points " . If they agree to do it  - sign & thank the salesperson & manager profusely - THEN drive right to the post office and rescind . ( & hope they spend the commission dollars & then get nothing ) HA HA

Then go to the pool &  talk to a few renters & explain why they should only ever buy resale for pennies on the dollar (while wearing the TUG shirt that says so )


----------



## cyseitz

Are y'all still finding that you can only upgrade the same type unit?   For example a one bedroom mobility only can upgrade to a higher unit labeled mobility?


----------



## wed100105

chaomandy said:


> Do you have to have VIP status in order to get the upgrade?


Yes.


Glacier Canyon was off again by five today.  I hope the two reservations I made hold.


----------



## chaomandy

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> When you finally have a reservation & travel : be sure and go an the " owner update " so you can be the salesperson's owner from "HE - double hockey sticks" for that week / month .
> Talk about it the whole time - then tell the salesperson - you will buy an upgrade IF - they " one time bonus you THOSE points " . If they agree to do it  - sign & thank the salesperson & manager profusely - THEN drive right to the post office and rescind . ( & hope they spend the commission dollars & then get nothing ) HA HA
> 
> Then go to the pool &  talk to a few renters & explain why they should only ever buy resale for pennies on the dollar (while wearing the TUG shirt that says so )


This is the second time I am going to the location (Williamsburg, VA.)  I went to the owner update last time because they offer a very good price on Colonel Williamsburg ticket.  I almost end up in a shouting match with the salesman and he asked me why I only gave 3 out of 5 satisfaction rating.


----------



## CO skier

paxsarah said:


> Regarding positives, much as I hate to admit it, the extra three months to use the Points Deposit feature and the ability to do it online are positives (though the reduced extension of points makes it a net negative, IMO).


The Points Deposit feature allows owners two full years to use their points, with some choice as to which year to extend the points.  Compare this to the fixed week owner -- use the week, or lose it -- or the floating week owner -- use it in the designated season or lose it.

Comparatively, a net positive for Club Wyndham points owners.


----------



## Bigrob

CO skier said:


> The Points Deposit feature allows owners two full years to use their points, with some choice as to which year to extend the points.  Compare this to the fixed week owner -- use the week, or lose it -- or the floating week owner -- use it in the designated season or lose it.
> 
> Comparatively, a net positive for Club Wyndham points owners.



I believe the point was that it was a net negative CHANGE versus the former points credit pool, which was more flexible but resulted in uses that were not intended. But the points deposit feature is still on par or better than that offered by other points programs, and clearly more flexible than fixed or floating weeks.


----------



## CO skier

Bigrob said:


> I believe the point was that it was a net negative CHANGE versus the former points credit pool,


When the full CHANGE is considered that allows LATER points deposits to future years for ALL owners, the "net" effect is generally positive for most owners.

This will, of course, not be the case for every owner depending on how unpredictable their usage is.  Any way it is sliced, Club Wyndham flexibility is still better than fixed weeks or floating weeks.


----------



## paxsarah

Bigrob said:


> I believe the point was that it was a net negative CHANGE versus the former points credit pool, which was more flexible but resulted in uses that were not intended. But the points deposit feature is still on par or better than that offered by other points programs, and clearly more flexible than fixed or floating weeks.



This is what I meant. It's a net negative compared to the credit pool - it's not as flexible as the points credit pool, and the extra three months doesn't make up for the reduced usage, in my opinion. Obviously it's a net positive compared to no points extension/shift at all. I also don't see where as a non-VIP I get a full two years to use my points, as @CO skier indicates. At best, it's two years with reduced usage for nine months of it. (With the credit pool, of course, it was three full years, but now only Platinum gets two full years.) I see 15 months of full usage - the first three months of the UY, and then if I decide to use Points Deposit, the full year I move the points to. Assuming I move them to the next UY, I do get nine months where I can borrow those points to make Express reservations.

However, I'm a planner and short-notice trips are not really my MO, so I'm really trying to wrap my head around how I can best make use of that Express period. I'm guessing for non-VIPs like me, the time between 90 and 60 days is our best bet for finding reservations to use borrowed points (or simply the true off season/dregs), because inside 60 days I don't expect many cancellations showing up in open inventory.


----------



## philemer

philemer said:


> First time I looked at my acct in a few days and no points tab for me.



Now my 2017 pts appear but none of my 2018/19 pts that I'd pooled. Is there a way to see *ALL my pts* thru 2019??


----------



## whitewater

philemer said:


> Now my 2017 pts appear but none of my 2018/19 pts that I'd pooled. Is there a way to see *ALL my pts* thru 2019??


there is a drop down menu with different use years.  Those should be your credit pooled points.


----------



## Deb from NC

I can see my points now, but I can't find the points charts for the resorts!  Where are they?


----------



## ronparise

Deb from NC said:


> I can see my points now, but I can't find the points charts for the resorts!  Where are they?



Click on "resorts" enter your resort. There is a link to the points chart


----------



## philemer

whitewater said:


> there is a drop down menu with different use years.  Those should be your credit pooled points.



Thanks, I see that now. Doh....

But the figures are not correct. Last Dec. 23, I pooled my 2017 & 2018 pts into 2019. The grand total is *308K*. The "use dates" should be 12/23/16>12/23/19. But mine shows:

14K for "Current Use Years" 12/23/16>12/23/19 

"0" for "Current Use Years" 1/1/17>12/31/17

"0" for "Future Use Years" 1/1/18>12/31/18

294K for "Future Use Years" 1/1/19>12/31/19

The grand total of *308K is correct but they all should be available 12/23/16>12/23/19.
*
Will this be corrected when the "update" is final or should I call in and chat with them?

Thx


----------



## Braindead

philemer said:


> Thanks, I see that now. Doh....
> 
> But the figures are not correct. Last Dec. 23, I pooled my 2017 & 2018 pts into 2019. The grand total is *308K*. The "use dates" should be 12/23/16>12/23/19. But mine shows:
> 
> 14K for "Current Use Years" 12/23/16>12/23/19
> 
> "0" for "Current Use Years" 1/1/17>12/31/17
> 
> "0" for "Future Use Years" 1/1/18>12/31/18
> 
> 294K for "Future Use Years" 1/1/19>12/31/19
> 
> The grand total of *308K is correct but they all should be available 12/23/16>12/23/19.
> *
> Will this be corrected when the "update" is final or should I call in and chat with them?
> 
> Thx


The 294k is your regular use 2019 points and cannot be touched.Unless you credit pooled them before the email notice in April

Do not call unless your ok with your account being locked while WYN does a point audit.


----------



## Deb from NC

ronparise said:


> Click on "resorts" enter your resort. There is a link to the points chart


Thanks.  I'm on an iPad and couldn't find a link.... Hoping once I get on a "real" computer I'll figure it out!


----------



## ronparise

philemer said:


> Thanks, I see that now. Doh....
> 
> But the figures are not correct. Last Dec. 23, I pooled my 2017 & 2018 pts into 2019. The grand total is *308K*. The "use dates" should be 12/23/16>12/23/19. But mine shows:
> 
> 14K for "Current Use Years" 12/23/16>12/23/19
> 
> "0" for "Current Use Years" 1/1/17>12/31/17
> 
> "0" for "Future Use Years" 1/1/18>12/31/18
> 
> 294K for "Future Use Years" 1/1/19>12/31/19
> 
> The grand total of *308K is correct but they all should be available 12/23/16>12/23/19.
> *
> Will this be corrected when the "update" is final or should I call in and chat with them?
> 
> Thx




I couldn't figure this out either. I ha a lot of zeros and a negative number and one block of credit pooled points was split up and was two lines

What I finally did was to add up all the points showing on my print -out of the points status from before the new website. And Deduct the points from the reservations I made after the new website was rolled out. That's the number of points I want to see on the new points status page

I then added up all the points on the new points status page 

I was 80000 credits off but it was close enough to satisfy me.


----------



## uscav8r

paxsarah said:


> This is what I meant. It's a net negative compared to the credit pool - it's not as flexible as the points credit pool, and the extra three months doesn't make up for the reduced usage, in my opinion. Obviously it's a net positive compared to no points extension/shift at all. I also don't see where as a non-VIP I get a full two years to use my points, as @CO skier indicates. At best, it's two years with reduced usage for nine months of it. (With the credit pool, of course, it was three full years, but now only Platinum gets two full years.) I see 15 months of full usage - the first three months of the UY, and then if I decide to use Points Deposit, the full year I move the points to. Assuming I move them to the next UY, I do get nine months where I can borrow those points to make Express reservations.
> 
> However, I'm a planner and short-notice trips are not really my MO, so I'm really trying to wrap my head around how I can best make use of that Express period. I'm guessing for non-VIPs like me, the time between 90 and 60 days is our best bet for finding reservations to use borrowed points (or simply the true off season/dregs), because inside 60 days I don't expect many cancellations showing up in open inventory.



I generally concur there is not two full years of usage, although your assumption is that the owner waits until the last minute to deposit current year points. On January 1 (assuming that is my anniversary), I can deposit all of my current year points into next year or the year after. 

But at best, all I am doing is ADVANCING my points by up to two full years. I don't get two full years of usage since I have to pick a specific year in which to deposit, and I lose any use of the points until that year begins. 

It still remains to be seen how borrowing points within the 90 day window will work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cayman01

paxsarah said:


> This is what I meant. It's a net negative compared to the credit pool - it's not as flexible as the points credit pool, and the extra three months doesn't make up for the reduced usage, in my opinion. Obviously it's a net positive compared to no points extension/shift at all. I also don't see where as a non-VIP I get a full two years to use my points, as @CO skier indicates. At best, it's two years with reduced usage for nine months of it. (With the credit pool, of course, it was three full years, but now only Platinum gets two full years.) I see 15 months of full usage - the first three months of the UY, and then if I decide to use Points Deposit, the full year I move the points to. Assuming I move them to the next UY, I do get nine months where I can borrow those points to make Express reservations.
> 
> However, I'm a planner and short-notice trips are not really my MO, so I'm really trying to wrap my head around how I can best make use of that Express period. I'm guessing for non-VIPs like me, the time between 90 and 60 days is our best bet for finding reservations to use borrowed points (or simply the true off season/dregs), because inside 60 days I don't expect many cancellations showing up in open inventory.



You hit the nail on the head. You get 15 months usage. First three months of the use year and the 12 months of the year you deposit into. That is it. With the credit pool you got 36 months if you pooled right away. I understand that owners are bemoaning the loss of the credit pool, but it really was too generous and laid itself wide open to be abused. Which it was. This is a fair system and still more generous than most other timeshare companies.


----------



## uscav8r

cayman01 said:


> You hit the nail on the head. You get 15 months usage. First three months of the use year and the 12 months of the year you deposit into. That is it. With the credit pool you got 36 months if you pooled right away. I understand that owners are bemoaning the loss of the credit pool, but it really was too generous and laid itself wide open to be abused. Which it was. This is a fair system and still more generous than most other timeshare companies.



I could see how bringing future years forward into the current year may have been an abuse, but getting stuck with picking one year or the other for a deposit seems too draconian a change compared to the prior policy. It seems this restriction was done more for ease of accounting than to be user-friendly.  

Tell me how giving us the flexibility to use deposited points over a continuous period limited to the future is ripe for abuse. 

BTW, WorldMark has a 25-month life on credits, which can be extended another 13 months with zero owner interaction other than tying up soon-to-expire points in a future reservation. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cayman01

uscav8r said:


> I could see how bringing future years forward into the current year may have been an abuse, but getting stuck with picking one year or the other for a deposit seems too draconian a change compared to the prior policy. It seems this restriction was done more for ease of accounting than to be user-friendly.
> 
> Tell me how giving us the flexibility to use deposited points over a continuous period limited to the future is ripe for abuse.
> 
> BTW, WorldMark has a 25-month life on credits, which can be extended another 13 months with zero owner interaction other than tying up soon-to-expire points in a future reservation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It is only draconian in terms of what the policy was before. If there was no pooling at all and this policy was put in place owners would be cheering.

Okay somebody, Ron, correct me if I am wrong in this. Big renters would look on the resale market for contracts with banked points. Then they borrowed two years worth of points to add to those points conceivably giving them five years of points to rent in one year. Would that not be abuse?


----------



## Braindead

cayman01 said:


> Okay somebody, Ron, correct me if I am wrong in this. Big renters would look on the resale market for contracts with banked points. Then they borrowed two years worth of points to add to those points conceivably giving them five years of points to rent in one year. Would that not be abuse?


Not abuse in my book. I call it a smart informed buyer that did his or her due diligence. They broke no rules. They didn't even bend the rules in my book. Others including Wyndham might not of liked it but they did nothing wrong.


----------



## uscav8r

cayman01 said:


> It is only draconian in terms of what the policy was before. If there was no pooling at all and this policy was put in place owners would be cheering.
> 
> Okay somebody, Ron, correct me if I am wrong in this. Big renters would look on the resale market for contracts with banked points. Then they borrowed two years worth of points to add to those points conceivably giving them five years of points to rent in one year. Would that not be abuse?



I mentioned the practice you cite as an abuse. I am not talking about bringing NEXT year's (or the following year's) points into the current year. 

What I specifically refer to is how--moving forward--depositing this year's points into a bin for CONTINUOUS use for the next 2+ years (as opposed to picking a specific year) would constitute abuse. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cayman01

Braindead said:


> Not abuse in my book. I call it a smart informed buyer that did his or her due diligence. They broke no rules. They didn't even bend the rules in my book. Others including Wyndham might not of liked it but they did nothing wrong.



If you do it with 100,000 pts. You're right, it is not abuse. If you do it with 10,000,000 it most certainly is. Call it what you will, gaming the system, taking advantage of a loophole, smart informed buyer. Doesn't matter. If people were not taking advantage of the rules as they were ,we wouldn't be in the situation we are now. But they did. Wyndham then reacted......badly...... And here we are.

 No rules were broken, but they were twisted, bent and contorted to extraordinary lengths. And the spirit of the rules got absolutely crushed.


----------



## cayman01

uscav8r said:


> I mentioned the practice you cite as an abuse. I am not talking about bringing NEXT year's (or the following year's) points into the current year.
> 
> What I specifically refer to is how--moving forward--depositing this year's points into a bin for CONTINUOUS use for the next 2+ years (as opposed to picking a specific year) would constitute abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think we are just looking at this from different angles. My point was the megarenter is looking for those pooled points in resale contracts. He adds them to his VIP account, and borrows two years and he could end up with TEN years of points to play with in a year if he has a Platinum account. You're looking at it as a small owner who banks some points for his own usage. Which is fine and exactly the spirit of the rule as Wyndham intended.


----------



## uscav8r

cayman01 said:


> I think we are just looking at this from different angles. My point was the megarenter is looking for those pooled points in resale contracts. He adds them to his VIP account, and borrows two years and he could end up with TEN years of points to play with in a year if he has a Platinum account. You're looking at it as a small owner who banks some points for his own usage. Which is fine and exactly the spirit of the rule as Wyndham intended.



Except you can no longer borrow (with the exception of the 90-day rule) an entire year's allotment of points through points deposits. So there is no way to do what you mention as everything is pushed to the future. There is no way to it in reverse anymore. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhopian

Bigrob said:


> The system has not been designed for the owner who has some travel flexibility. It has been designed from the premise that an owner will have identified the dates they want to travel first. If you know the specific dates of travel, search works fine. Where it breaks down is when you want flexibility and will plan your travel around the availability at the resort, rather than the other way around.
> 
> I am not sure why they did not consider "flexible dates" as a critical search criteria, but obviously it is. Otherwise is it like looking for a needle in a haystack. As an owner... I may want to take my family for a 3-day weekend. Doesn't matter which weekend; could be any of several resorts (in more than one region); and could be any unit type 2BR or larger. This search is impossible to execute.
> 
> On the other hand, mega-renters typically target specific high-demand timeframes well in advance. The lack of flexibility for searching dates is essentially a non-issue in this scenario, since all the availability at a resort can be seen if you have specific dates.
> 
> Who is this website designed to serve?


I had a long talk with a 'triage' specialists tonight. From her description of her job, she seems to be one of a group of people from Owner Care working with IT folks. My account lost points in the transfer, and ended up putting points all over the place when those reservations were cancelled. It just started creating new point buckets going out as far as 2021. It was a mess and I give Wyndham Credit that they agreed, realized this and got someone on the phone with me. In this conversation from whoever this well educated team is I learned a few things.

1. There are greater search functions that what we see right now but they are not turned on. She said this is a start simple approach and that considering all the growing pains or database mergers and system load failures they are glad they have kept it simple. It will expand to include searching more than one type of room with no check in/out dates and also a slide for multiple dates like the old +/-4.

2. There were huge failures in the merger of multiple databases at the resort levels. Randomly owners were also affected. She also said they don't know the total impact because as people like me cancel reservation made from the previous system they are learning about mistakes in returning points to buckets that don't exist, can't be written to or have no home to go back to in which the system just creates new homes - which was my problem. (try having 500,000 points that are in a use year of 2020-2021 and it's not even 2018).

3. They are being very generous with credits. I have a stay booked for BC in mid august and I needed to shuck down a 3 night to a 2 night on the end of the stay. I cannot cancel the reservation to rebook it. She said not to worry and that they are going to let me keep the reservation and just gave me back the points for the night I wanted to cancel. I can also confirm that an emerald grande booking I am currently staying at needed to have the next week cancelled, which is inside the 15 days but I couldn't cancel it last week because I was locked out. They canceled it and returned all points. She said they have been instructed to be very generous with point credits and working with people to get points back.

4. She said that upgrades are going to get better as they work on the code. She confirmed that we can do instant upgrades as I have done in the new system this week. We can still get 1/2 priced based units and upgrade. She did not think that they would all go on auto upgrade to others. She confirmed that the upgrade feature is dual tiered. 1st tier is on VIP level and then by date of booking/upgrade selection. All platinum first, by date booked or upgrade selected. Then gold (by order of booking), then silver (by order of booking). She said it was very likely that a platinum VIP inside 60 days but more than 45 could see instant upgrades come back into the system because the few platinums booked with upgrades selected might get their orders filled with inventory changing before gold came online. She also said what we have all been told which is that it has to be an exact match. If there are two days and someone is looking for 3 it will not upgrade (no surprise there).

On the down side, she did share that there are errors in how the upgrades are applied. For example a week ago I couldn't get a 1br to upgrade to a 3br even though they were both available and there was no 2 in the middle. She said that as they see the issues they are trying to repair them. In some cases its on a resort by resort basis. I asked about the 1dx to 1pr and she said that is not considered an upgrade for most resorts but that if someone wanted that upgrade they should contact owner care claiming that it is a better view. This is an area where they are trying to work things out. For example it will auto upgrade you to that selection if you choose better view or 'either' but you cannot choose that option as an instant upgrade at time of booking....another issue they are aware of but are prioritizing their code revisions.

I was impressed at her knowledge of the errors, her willingness to share and her confidence in what she has seen and belief that it will get better knowing that she has been working 12 hour days for 2 weeks getting bitched at by everyone. I'm not drinking any Kool Aid but I am 100% more optimistic than I was in that this might actually get better.

In other news, I went to Taco Bell today and got screwed on my order for the third time in a month (three different stores).


Bigrob said:


> The system has not been designed for the owner who has some travel flexibility. It has been designed from the premise that an owner will have identified the dates they want to travel first. If you know the specific dates of travel, search works fine. Where it breaks down is when you want flexibility and will plan your travel around the availability at the resort, rather than the other way around.
> 
> I am not sure why they did not consider "flexible dates" as a critical search criteria, but obviously it is. Otherwise is it like looking for a needle in a haystack. As an owner... I may want to take my family for a 3-day weekend. Doesn't matter which weekend; could be any of several resorts (in more than one region); and could be any unit type 2BR or larger. This search is impossible to execute.
> 
> On the other hand, mega-renters typically target specific high-demand timeframes well in advance. The lack of flexibility for searching dates is essentially a non-issue in this scenario, since all the availability at a resort can be seen if you have specific dates.
> 
> Who is this website designed to serve?


----------



## happyhopian

cyseitz said:


> Are y'all still finding that you can only upgrade the same type unit?   For example a one bedroom mobility only can upgrade to a higher unit labeled mobility?


Yes this is a a previously reported bug back a couple of dozen pages.


----------



## ronparise

cayman01 said:


> It is only draconian in terms of what the policy was before. If there was no pooling at all and this policy was put in place owners would be cheering.
> 
> Okay somebody, Ron, correct me if I am wrong in this. Big renters would look on the resale market for contracts with banked points. Then they borrowed two years worth of points to add to those points conceivably giving them five years of points to rent in one year. Would that not be abuse?



I've never seen a contract for sale with 2 years of points in the credit pool and I've seen a lot. So the way you have laid this out is an exaggeration. 

here's what I did. I would buy a contract with the current years points in it and when it settled I would credit pool the current year, and the next two years so if for example I bought a million point contract I would now have 3 million points in the pool. 

and then I'd send an email to my points manager telling him that he now had 3 million points to use and that he owed me another $18000 (our deal was $6/1000). And he paid me over the next 12 months

So I'd pay for the contract and pay a years fees and collect $18000

The next January I'd credit pool the new points, bill my points manager for $6000 and break even and to continue to make money I had to buy more

The possible abuse would be  if I took that money and stopped paying maintenance fees. 

My fees were paid so no abuse.


----------



## Braindead

cayman01 said:


> If you do it with 100,000 pts. You're right, it is not abuse. If you do it with 10,000,000 it most certainly is. Call it what you will, gaming the system, taking advantage of a loophole, smart informed buyer. Doesn't matter. If people were not taking advantage of the rules as they were ,we wouldn't be in the situation we are now. But they did. Wyndham then reacted......badly...... And here we are.
> 
> No rules were broken, but they were twisted, bent and contorted to extraordinary lengths. And the spirit of the rules got absolutely crushed.


I was only responding to the purchase of the contract then credit pooling.  Gaming,taking advantage of the system, twisting the rules all took place after the purchase and credit pooling. 
The gaming,twisting,taking advantage of was in how those points were used not obtained. 
Simple fix to the credit pool was just change when you could credit pool.  Use the the new deposit timeframes. You can only credit pool your current use year points. Example 2017
Non VIP window January 1 2017 to March 31 2017. Can't credit pool 2018 or 2019 points. Then just ad 3 months for each level of VIP.
Why Wyndham didn't do the simple less restrictive change ? Only they know


----------



## ronparise

cayman01 said:


> If you do it with 100,000 pts. You're right, it is not abuse. If you do it with 10,000,000 it most certainly is. Call it what you will, gaming the system, taking advantage of a loophole, smart informed buyer. Doesn't matter. If people were not taking advantage of the rules as they were ,we wouldn't be in the situation we are now. But they did. Wyndham then reacted......badly...... And here we are.
> 
> No rules were broken, but they were twisted, bent and contorted to extraordinary lengths. And the spirit of the rules got absolutely crushed.



I would argue that if its abuse, its abuse no matter the size.   Like I told my daughter 30  years ago. "Its not possible to be just a little bit pregnant"  

 If there is no problem with 100,000 points there is no problem with 10 million.
There were no "extraordinary lengths" taken   I just made reservations and when i didnt have enough points I "borrowed" from the future. The only extraordinary effort I took was that I had to make a phone call, instead of doing it online.

You have to remember how the credit pool was constructed. When I credit pooled future years points to use today, I really wasnt using my points.  To use future years points today there had to be some current years points already in the pool. So when I deposited my 2018 points to use today, someone else's 2017 points were used to make the reservation. If there had been no 2017 points in the pool I wouldnt have been able to do it .  The club stays whole, in that maintenance fees are  paid (by someone else) for the "early" reservation I made and as long as I continue to own my deed, and pay fees no one is abused, .  Just like any loan, as long as I make my payments I get to use the asset. Watch the movie "Its a Wonderful Life"  Jimmy Steuart gives a good explanation of how a Savings and Loan works. and the credit pool worked the same way

However, Wyndham didnt like what I was doing any more than you do, but it wasnt because of what Ive described here.  What I havent said yet. is that I "sold"  those stripped contracts. So I got to use the future points without having to pay the fees.  Wyndham really didnt like that. and they especially didnt like that there were at least a few other owners doing the same thing.

 I maintain that as long as the new buyer understood what he was getting (full disclosure on my part) and as long as the new buyer continued to pay his fees, there was no problem.  Wyndham didnt buy that argument. All they saw was that I got the use of the points without having paid for them.

Wyndhams real problem was actually something else, I think.  Im not going to speculate,   but as Bill Maher would say... "I dont know it for a fact, I just know that its true"

I asked a wyndham executive whether The new points deposit feature was developed because of what I (and others) was doing. and he laughed..  he said a redo of the credit pool was in the works for a long time. And I recently read that they have been looking at the cancel/rebook/upgrade trick for a long time too. So I dont accept the blame, or the credit for the new rules


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

ronparise said:


> I would argue that if its abuse, its abuse no matter the size.   Like I told my daughter 30  years ago. "Its not possible to be just a little bit pregnant"
> 
> However, Wyndham didnt like what I was doing any more than you do, but it wasnt because of what Ive described here.  What I havent said yet. is that I "sold"  those stripped contracts. So I got to use the future points without having to pay the fees.  Wyndham really didnt like that. and they especially didnt like that there were at least a few other owners doing the same thing.
> 
> I maintain that as long as the new buyer understood what he was getting.....



******
I agree with you . 
In the case of the "famous " TUG bargain"  - Canterbury  - not only did you do full disclosure , the buyer ( I believe) later posted on TUG  how happy they were with the purchase , and I am sure will be paying MF to Wyndham for many years and using the points . 

I understand how Wyndham - "as  a landlord" found it disconcerting .


----------



## Sandy VDH

Are the point totals on the new system live, or a day delay like the old system.

I also had pooled points cancel and go back as regular points.

I just cancelled something, but my points did NOT come back in the totals page.  So if it is suppose to be live, I have an issue. Has anyone had this issue?


----------



## IT Guy

Sandy VDH said:


> Are the point totals on the new system live, or a day delay like the old system.
> 
> I also had pooled points cancel and go back as regular points.
> 
> I just cancelled something, but my points did NOT come back in the totals page.  So if it is suppose to be live, I have an issue. Has anyone had this issue?



I've cancelled a few reservations and found that my points total was not updated immediately but was updated after about a half hour.


----------



## Sandy VDH

IT Guy said:


> I've cancelled a few reservations and found that my points total was not updated immediately but was updated after about a half hour.



If that is the case, they should put a note on that page that there could be a delay in cancelled points (or it is all points transactions) from displaying in totals correctly.

I just got off the phone and they are STILL having an issue with cancelled points going back into the wrong buckets.  I had cancelled every reservation I had.  Took all the points in 2017 and 2018 and Pooled them all.  Then once pooled I went back and rebooked all my reservations.  So from that Day May 9th,  I had no regular use year points left. They can see that, but STILL the reservations return as regular use year.  Crazy, stupid system.


----------



## wed100105

happyhopian said:


> I had a long talk with a 'triage' specialists tonight. From her description of her job, she seems to be one of a group of people from Owner Care working with IT folks. My account lost points in the transfer, and ended up putting points all over the place when those reservations were cancelled. It just started creating new point buckets going out as far as 2021. It was a mess and I give Wyndham Credit that they agreed, realized this and got someone on the phone with me. In this conversation from whoever this well educated team is I learned a few things.
> 
> 1. There are greater search functions that what we see right now but they are not turned on. She said this is a start simple approach and that considering all the growing pains or database mergers and system load failures they are glad they have kept it simple. It will expand to include searching more than one type of room with no check in/out dates and also a slide for multiple dates like the old +/-4.
> 
> 2. There were huge failures in the merger of multiple databases at the resort levels. Randomly owners were also affected. She also said they don't know the total impact because as people like me cancel reservation made from the previous system they are learning about mistakes in returning points to buckets that don't exist, can't be written to or have no home to go back to in which the system just creates new homes - which was my problem. (try having 500,000 points that are in a use year of 2020-2021 and it's not even 2018).
> 
> 3. They are being very generous with credits. I have a stay booked for BC in mid august and I needed to shuck down a 3 night to a 2 night on the end of the stay. I cannot cancel the reservation to rebook it. She said not to worry and that they are going to let me keep the reservation and just gave me back the points for the night I wanted to cancel. I can also confirm that an emerald grande booking I am currently staying at needed to have the next week cancelled, which is inside the 15 days but I couldn't cancel it last week because I was locked out. They canceled it and returned all points. She said they have been instructed to be very generous with point credits and working with people to get points back.
> 
> 4. She said that upgrades are going to get better as they work on the code. She confirmed that we can do instant upgrades as I have done in the new system this week. We can still get 1/2 priced based units and upgrade. She did not think that they would all go on auto upgrade to others. She confirmed that the upgrade feature is dual tiered. 1st tier is on VIP level and then by date of booking/upgrade selection. All platinum first, by date booked or upgrade selected. Then gold (by order of booking), then silver (by order of booking). She said it was very likely that a platinum VIP inside 60 days but more than 45 could see instant upgrades come back into the system because the few platinums booked with upgrades selected might get their orders filled with inventory changing before gold came online. She also said what we have all been told which is that it has to be an exact match. If there are two days and someone is looking for 3 it will not upgrade (no surprise there).
> 
> On the down side, she did share that there are errors in how the upgrades are applied. For example a week ago I couldn't get a 1br to upgrade to a 3br even though they were both available and there was no 2 in the middle. She said that as they see the issues they are trying to repair them. In some cases its on a resort by resort basis. I asked about the 1dx to 1pr and she said that is not considered an upgrade for most resorts but that if someone wanted that upgrade they should contact owner care claiming that it is a better view. This is an area where they are trying to work things out. For example it will auto upgrade you to that selection if you choose better view or 'either' but you cannot choose that option as an instant upgrade at time of booking....another issue they are aware of but are prioritizing their code revisions.
> 
> I was impressed at her knowledge of the errors, her willingness to share and her confidence in what she has seen and belief that it will get better knowing that she has been working 12 hour days for 2 weeks getting bitched at by everyone. I'm not drinking any Kool Aid but I am 100% more optimistic than I was in that this might actually get better.
> 
> In other news, I went to Taco Bell today and got screwed on my order for the third time in a month (three different stores).



Thank you so much for this post. I have heard similar things myself. Yesterday Sam, a VC, told me going forward to be creative in my booking if I can. I think he was referring to the exact match upgrade portion. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. 

GC is still frozen out of the system. Are any other resorts still out?

By the way, my Taco Bell was awful yesterday, too.


----------



## joanncanary

can anyone see any resorts in Pompano beach Florida?  I went looking for availability and it comes up that there are no resorts there. I am picking from the list of places under resorts and the state of Florida. I was trying to see the availability for October.


----------



## ronparise

joanncanary said:


> can anyone see any resorts in Pompano beach Florida?  I went looking for availability and it comes up that there are no resorts there. I am picking from the list of places under resorts and the state of Florida. I was trying to see the availability for October.



I made a December reservation at Palm Aire


----------



## cayman01

ronparise said:


> I would argue that if its abuse, its abuse no matter the size.   Like I told my daughter 30  years ago. "Its not possible to be just a little bit pregnant"
> 
> If there is no problem with 100,000 points there is no problem with 10 million.
> There were no "extraordinary lengths" taken   I just made reservations and when i didnt have enough points I "borrowed" from the future. The only extraordinary effort I took was that I had to make a phone call, instead of doing it online.
> 
> You have to remember how the credit pool was constructed. When I credit pooled future years points to use today, I really wasnt using my points.  To use future years points today there had to be some current years points already in the pool. So when I deposited my 2018 points to use today, someone else's 2017 points were used to make the reservation. If there had been no 2017 points in the pool I wouldnt have been able to do it .  The club stays whole, in that maintenance fees are  paid (by someone else) for the "early" reservation I made and as long as I continue to own my deed, and pay fees no one is abused, .  Just like any loan, as long as I make my payments I get to use the asset. Watch the movie "Its a Wonderful Life"  Jimmy Steuart gives a good explanation of how a Savings and Loan works. and the credit pool worked the same way
> 
> However, Wyndham didnt like what I was doing any more than you do, but it wasnt because of what Ive described here.  What I havent said yet. is that I "sold"  those stripped contracts. So I got to use the future points without having to pay the fees.  Wyndham really didnt like that. and they especially didnt like that there were at least a few other owners doing the same thing.
> 
> I maintain that as long as the new buyer understood what he was getting (full disclosure on my part) and as long as the new buyer continued to pay his fees, there was no problem.  Wyndham didnt buy that argument. All they saw was that I got the use of the points without having paid for them.
> 
> Wyndhams real problem was actually something else, I think.  Im not going to speculate,   but as Bill Maher would say... "I dont know it for a fact, I just know that its true"
> 
> I asked a wyndham executive whether The new points deposit feature was developed because of what I (and others) was doing. and he laughed..  he said a redo of the credit pool was in the works for a long time. And I recently read that they have been looking at the cancel/rebook/upgrade trick for a long time too. So I dont accept the blame, or the credit for the new rules



 Full disclosure. If I had found out about this method a few years ago I would have been right with you doing the same thing. And while we are at it let's put the "abuse" word to bed. "Taking advantage of the rules" is more appropriate. The credit pool was way too generous the way it was and practically begged to be exploited. Smart guys like you did. You pretty much cornered the market on Mardi Gras. The problem was it took away availability from other Wyndham owners, and I think that is where all the "unfair" talk comes into play. Wyndham didn't care because as you say the bills were getting paid and they got fresh marks for the updates. I think VIP owners started complaining about availability for certain times and places and it got too loud. And then again there is the problem with all the extra points being handed out by their computer system. Maybe they were very close to completely crashing the system that they HAD to shut down the big renters......................


----------



## vacationhopeful

Just remember, Wyndham rents, too. Extra Holidays. And these are not just a few owners using Wyndham's rental arm to rent weeks. It is the 90% of available inventory that Wyndham can legally grab within the 60 days of checkin.

Or is it special inventory which is offered to buyers of their Discovery Program with their special reservation line & which usually involve a 3 or 4 night stay plus a sit down with the sales department?

What might have been a means to take units out of use for repairs, has become a BIG BUSINESS in renting and getting new people to the resort first, sales table second.


----------



## paxsarah

I am totally craving tacos right now. I'll have to go to the local place, though, not Taco Bell, just to be safe.


----------



## Sandy VDH

IT Guy said:


> I've cancelled a few reservations and found that my points total was not updated immediately but was updated after about a half hour.



Mine point total was finally reflected online, so there is a delay of about an hour for me. 

I think they should post a warning about that.


----------



## ronparise

cayman01 said:


> Full disclosure. If I had found out about this method a few years ago I would have been right with you doing the same thing. And while we are at it let's put the "abuse" word to bed. "Taking advantage of the rules" is more appropriate. The credit pool was way too generous the way it was and practically begged to be exploited. Smart guys like you did. You pretty much cornered the market on Mardi Gras. The problem was it took away availability from other Wyndham owners, and I think that is where all the "unfair" talk comes into play. Wyndham didn't care because as you say the bills were getting paid and they got fresh marks for the updates. I think VIP owners started complaining about availability for certain times and places and it got too loud. And then again there is the problem with all the extra points being handed out by their computer system. Maybe they were very close to completely crashing the system that they HAD to shut down the big renters......................



There are about 400 units at LaBelle Maison and Avenue Plaza. 63 at avenue plaza are Worldmark and something like 1/4 of avenue plaza intervals are the old floating weeks sold by the original developer before Wyndham took over

So about 300  are available to club Wyndham points owners. All the labelle Maison units are UDI and CWA and Mardi Gras  is reserved in the first day of arp. Avenue plaza is either CWA or converted fixed weeks or Mardi Gras event weeks   The CWA goes at 13 months but the converted fixed weeks and the weeks aren't released until the 10 month mark

All that is to say the most Mardi Gras  I've ever gotten using Wyndham points is 20.  Not really cornering the market

The rest of my Mardi Gras stuff (about 40 more) was worldmark and Mardi Gras event weeks.

The credit pool was very important to my cash flow but it had nothing to do with Mardi Gras rentals. What's going to mess me up for Mardi Gras is that arp is now on line. Everyone that wants a reservation will be online at midnight and by the time I go to make my second reservation everything will be gone


----------



## Braindead

On exact match. What is creative? I'm not going to make 5 two day reservations and end up with different room sizes back and forth.

Has anyone confirmed that when a 10 night reservation gets cancelled then it can only go to another 10 night reservation ? Or can it be broke up to three 3 night reservations?


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> On exact match. What is creative? I'm not going to make 5 two day reservations and end up with different room sizes back and forth.
> 
> Has anyone confirmed that when a 10 night reservation gets cancelled then it can only go to another 10 night reservation ? Or can it be broke up to three 3 night reservations?


Yes a 10 night cancel can go to 3 different 3 night ressies. What can't happen is if you have a 7 night stay and someone cancels a 4 night. You will not get 4 nights upgraded. This is why the agent suggested to be creative in how to book. Lots more 3 and 4 night cancels than 7 night cancels. She also pointed out that you have a good chance at frontdesk upgrade if you are halfway into an upgraded unit. If not, then just keep the smaller unit and disregard the partial upgrade. I'd take a chance but so far cancel-rebook is working for me. I don't do a lot of rentals but I got a boat load at destin this week and I've upgraded 2 bonnet creek's live on line without the auto upgrade. They are out there. Just a little more time consuming than before but I wouldn't say more complicated...yet anyway...I am suspicious that this might continue to tighten up but I'm going to dance as long as the music is playing, then I'll figure out something else to do


----------



## debrinkleyusa

happyhopian said:


> Yes a 10 night cancel can go to 3 different 3 night ressies. What can't happen is if you have a 7 night stay and someone cancels a 4 night. You will not get 4 nights upgraded. This is why the agent suggested to be creative in how to book. Lots more 3 and 4 night cancels than 7 night cancels. She also pointed out that you have a good chance at frontdesk upgrade if you are halfway into an upgraded unit. If not, then just keep the smaller unit and disregard the partial upgrade. I'd take a chance but so far cancel-rebook is working for me. I don't do a lot of rentals but I got a boat load at destin this week and I've upgraded 2 bonnet creek's live on line without the auto upgrade. They are out there. Just a little more time consuming than before but I wouldn't say more complicated...yet anyway...I am suspicious that this might continue to tighten up but I'm going to dance as long as the music is playing, then I'll figure out something else to do



When you say the cancel-rebook is working for you, is that since they installed this new system?  I find it is VERY difficult.


----------



## nicemann

Sandy VDH said:


> Mine point total was finally reflected online, so there is a delay of about an hour for me.
> 
> I think they should post a warning about that.



Canceled one on Thursday.  I don't have a large account so I checked my point balance right away and it was not there.  So did a sign off and sign on and the balance was updated.  Maybe 7 or 8 mins total.


----------



## wed100105

Cancel and rebook did not work for me at GC when it was in the system last week. I was even on the phone with a VC looking. I wanted to connect one night that came available with one night I had booked previously. I want able to check the next morning because they haven't put GC inventory back online yet to my knowledge.


----------



## Sandy VDH

I have a reservation that I can't cancel online.  Has this happened to anyone??


----------



## debrinkleyusa

Sandy VDH said:


> I have a reservation that I can't cancel online.  Has this happened to anyone??



Yes it is happening to me frequently.  I wanted to cancel a Bonnet Creek reservation I made today but could not.  I then started testing to see if I could cancel any of the Bonnet Creek reservations I made today.  I cannot cancel any of them.  I then did a test with a reservation at the Grand Desert.  That one cancelled without a problem.  All of the reservations that I have not been able to cancel since the new system came up are at Bonnet Creek.  The VC and Owner Care usually cannot cancel them either.  They tell me they will make a note in the account and if I can't cancel before the 15 day point they say they will make an exception to let me cancel inside the 15 day point if I can.  I think it is time to take a vacation from this Wyndham mess.


----------



## Sandy VDH

I cancelled several Bonnet creeks today, I just decided to cancel one more but it wouldn't cancel. 

annoying.


----------



## Jan M.

Sandy VDH said:


> I have a reservation that I can't cancel online.  Has this happened to anyone??



I had it happen to me just yesterday. Called and neither the VC nor the supervisor were able cancel it either. They submitted yet another IT ticket and told me it will take up to 72 hours to get it cancelled and the points back in my account. 

The really interesting part of the whole mess was that I booked the stay on Friday morning and requested an upgrade from the one bedroom deluxe. At 5pm that same day I got a second confirmation letter from Wyndham showing a reservation for a 2 bedroom unit. Before the call center closed I called to confirm that I did get the upgrade because it wasn't showing when I logged in to my account. Neither she nor her supervisor could see anything to indicate the reservation had been upgraded but they told me to wait til the morning for the system to update. So Saturday morning still nothing and I can't cancel the reservation to free up the points to be able to book a two bedroom that was showing. The crazy system also wasn't letting me borrow points which has been an intermittent issue with my account. So here I am on the phone again for over an hour, they still aren't seeing that the reservation was upgraded, they can't cancel nor can they borrow the points for the other reservation that would have worked for me. Today I can borrow the points again but of course the reservation is long gone.


----------



## wed100105

I am having trouble finding availability at several resorts this morning. Anybody else? Branson had quite a few last week. I'm seeing nothing now.


----------



## time4share

I'm a Gold owner with Wyndham. As a professional code writer for computer data systems. I can tell you honestly that the system worked fine before they changed it. It is impressive how their system worked. However I will be straight forward with you. When something is not broke you don't fix it. Especially when your handling millions of people's data. You always build a separate site to experiment with any new coding. 
Honestly in this day in time our world is changing concerning clients data. Your data is golden to companies. If they knew everything about you. From the color of your eyes to your hair, your clothes your travel. What you like to eat where you go to shop and on and on. 
When Edward Snowden told the world about what the National Security Agency was doing and who they were spying on. The world has awakened to this knowledge. Companies have been solicited by NSA and our government to give up the data on every individual they have. But first the companies have to capture your data. Just like all the credit cards you have in your wallet to the phone in your pocket to the smart meter on your home controlling your household appliances. Yep that's right. All this right under our noses in plain site. Wake up. I build database software and have been watching this for years. People are oblivious to this. 
As for the new Wyndham site. You ask. You guessed it. The biggest reason for changing this site was to capture your real time data. Still can't believe it and want to keep your head in the sand. I challenge you to this. Log on to club wyndham.com with your phone and the very first thing it will tell you is that the site won't work to its potential UNLESS you allow your "Privacy" settings to be turned off. This is no different than if you went to the grocery store with you kids and ran into a complete stranger and gave them a road map to your home. Telling them what your key code is to your door and allowing them to come in. I'm serious when I tell you this. 
Companies worldwide compete every day for your data. AT&T, Verizon, Microsoft, Mandy many more. They are part of Prizm program. Look it up and learn. Wyndham is no different they can increase their sales if they knew more about you. Would you not agree. This is my first time to write on here but I had to say something. I do like my vacations and I thought wyndham was an ok company until now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

Duplication


----------



## njbelf

So the search function seems to be broken today.   I simply went to the Resorts and did a simple selection of Florida and did a search and it comes back with "We don't have any resorts that match the information you have provided".

But searching by Experience DOES seem to work.


----------



## time4share

*Mod Note: This post was essentially a cut and paste of your previous post on this topic and has been edited. We appreciate your perspective, but please refrain from posting duplicate content in the future. If you feel your previous post contains content essential to the dialog, just create a link to the previous content in your post.*

Thank you..


----------



## raygo123

Crossed that bridge long ago on my first yes.

Anyway, I'm glad I don't have to do anything right now I'm good with my plans till fall of 2018.

Maybe all these "bugs" are a way of merely slowing the system down on purpose.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## cyseitz

I thought we were supposed to have more availability with this new website.


----------



## cyseitz

time4share said:


> I'm a Gold owner with Wyndham. As a Proffessional code writer for computer data systems. I can tell you honestly that the system worked fine before they changed it. It is impressive how their system worked. However I will be straight forward with you. When something is not broke you don't fix it. Especially when your handling millions of people's data. You always build a separate site to experiment with any new coding.
> Honestly in this day in time our world is changing concerning clients data. Your data is golden to companies. If they knew everything about you. From the color of your eyes to your hair, your cloths your travel. What you like to eat where you go to shop and on and on. When Edward Snowden told the world about what the National Security Agency was doing and who they were spying on. The world has awakened to this knowledge. Companies have been solicited by NSA and our government to give up the data on every individual they have. But first the companies have to capture your data. Just like all the credit cards you have in your wallet to the phone in your pocket to the smart meter on your home controlling your household appliances. Yep that's right. All this right under our noses in plain site. Wake up. I build database software and have been watching this for years. People are oblivious to this.
> As for the new Wyndham site. You ask. You guessed it. The biggest reason for changing this site was to capture your real time data. Still can't believe it and want to keep your head in the sand. I challenge you to this. Log on to club wyndham.com with your phone and the very first thing it will tell you is that the site won't work to its potential UNLESS you allow your "Privacy" settings to be turned off. This is no different than if you went to the grocery store with you kids and ran into a complete stranger and gave them a road map to your home. Telling them what your key code is to your door and allowing them to come in. I'm serious when I tell you this.
> Companies worldwide compete every day for your data. AT&T, Verizon, Microsoft, Mandy many more. They are part of Prizm program. Look it up and learn. Wyndham is no different they can increase their sales if they knew more about you. Would you not agree. This is my first time to write on here but I had to say something. I do like my vacations and I thought wyndham was an ok company until now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why do you keep posting this?


----------



## Sandi Bo

cyseitz said:


> I thought we were supposed to have more availability with this new website.


Statistically, WYN will be able to report there was more rooms available.  They'll be able to report there are even rooms sitting empty.  Who knows from statistics that the rooms sit empty because owners can't book them?


----------



## cyseitz

I was just wondering if y'all are finding more availability once you got inside the 15 day window.


----------



## wed100105

cyseitz said:


> I was just wondering if y'all are finding more availability once you got inside the 15 day window.


Right now at the resorts I book, no. I can see anything!


----------



## uscav8r

time4share said:


> Notice how Tapatalk even knew this was sent from my iPhone. Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Tapatalk doesn't  know anything you haven't allowed it to know. It adds a default signature based upon the version of the app you use, the iPhone one in this case. You do have the freedom to edit it or turn it off completely. 

But you probably already knew that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wjappraise

cyseitz said:


> Why do you keep posting this?



And with serious typos.  Lessens the weight given to his observations.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

uscav8r said:


> Tapatalk doesn't  know anything you haven't allowed it to know. It adds a default signature based upon the version of the app you use, the iPhone one in this case. You do have the freedom to edit it or turn it off completely.
> 
> But you probably already knew that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Just making my point. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

wjappraise said:


> And with serious typos.  Lessens the weight given to his observations.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Sorry for any typos. I'm using iPhone with spell check and don't have my glasses on. lol I'm sure you got the gesture 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cyseitz

I was wondering what percentage of Wyndham owners are VIP and have the ability to cancel, rebook, upgrade.


----------



## timesharman

I don't think it matters anymore.  With the new website and rules, you no longer have the option.  When you book you can request an automatic upgrade, and if it becomes available - Wyndham says you will get it - but I am very suspicious about that


----------



## time4share

uscav8r said:


> Tapatalk doesn't  know anything you haven't allowed it to know. It adds a default signature based upon the version of the app you use, the iPhone one in this case. You do have the freedom to edit it or turn it off completely.
> 
> But you probably already knew that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The point I'm make went over your head I see. The point is if you turn off the privacy setting then the site will not work properly. I told others about this and they seem to get it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uscav8r

time4share said:


> The point I'm make went over your head I see. The point is if you turn off the privacy setting then the site will not work properly. I told others about this and they seem to get it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I was not commenting on the Wyndham site, but to your whimsical comment regarding Tapatalk. Sorry you took it so personally. I will try to be stone cold serious from now on. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

uscav8r said:


> I was not commenting on the Wyndham site, but to your whimsical comment regarding Tapatalk. Sorry you took it so personally. I will try to be stone cold serious from now on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Not a problem. Just thought you had. All good 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eapperson

I hate the new site.  Absolutely hate it.  I do not find anything about it easier to use.  And searching availability sucks beyond belief.


----------



## wed100105

I am still showing nothing available at some resorts? Anyone else?


I hate that you don't know where the inventory is going. I'm suspicious of the new system.


----------



## njbelf

Well, there's a bug.. Went to try to book a 1 bed in Bonnet Creek for next March..  Get to the checkout screen and it wants me to buy a Reservation Transaction for _next use year.   _Am I not supposed to get 2 every use year now?   I should point out that it correctly used 2018 use year points for the reservation.. just not the Reservation Transaction.


----------



## staceyeileen

njbelf said:


> Well, there's a bug.. Went to try to book a 1 bed in Bonnet Creek for next March..  Get to the checkout screen and it wants me to buy a Reservation Transaction for _next use year.   _Am I not supposed to get 2 every use year now?   I should point out that it correctly used 2018 use year points for the reservation.. just not the Reservation Transaction.


That doesn't sound like a bug.  RTs are burned in a calendar year regardless of when the check in date is for the reservation.

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## njbelf

staceyeileen said:


> That doesn't sound like a bug.  RTs are burned in a calendar year regardless of when the check in date is for the reservation.
> 
> Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk



I went back and read the supplement and let's just say it is very ambiguous.   One thing it does say is that Reservation Transactions are granted every calendar year at a rate of 1 per every 77000 points.   So, I was wrong, I should get 3 per calendar year.   Because the reservation is for the next calendar year, why do I need one now to book forward especially if I cannot bank RTs?


----------



## staceyeileen

njbelf said:


> I went back and read the supplement and let's just say it is very ambiguous.   One thing it does say is that Reservation Transactions are granted every calendar year at a rate of 1 per every 77000 points.   So, I was wrong, I should get 3 per calendar year.   Because the reservation is for the next calendar year, why do I need one now to book forward especially if I cannot bank RTs?


Because as I said before, it has nothing to do with what year the reservation check in date falls.  You can perform 3 free transactions in a calendar year, period.  This is not a change.

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## staceyeileen

Have you already preformed 3 transactions this calendar year?

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## njbelf

staceyeileen said:


> Have you already preformed 3 transactions this calendar year?
> 
> Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk



Yes, I have performed three transactions this calendar year.   So let's say my reservation right now uses ALL of my 2018 use year points.   This would leave me with three reservation transactions next year with nothing to do with them.   I have never been in this situation before so I am trying to understand this.   If this is true, it means that Reservation Transactions are essentially nuisances.


----------



## staceyeileen

njbelf said:


> Yes, I have performed three transactions this calendar year.   So let's say my reservation right now uses ALL of my 2018 use year points.   This would leave me with three reservation transactions next year with nothing to do with them.   I have never been in this situation before so I am trying to understand this.   If this is true, it means that Reservation Transactions are essentially nuisances.



Well, I definitely agree with you on that last point.  Presumably you would need to use some RTs in 2018 to book your 2019 reservations.



Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## njbelf

staceyeileen said:


> Well, I definitely agree with you on that last point.  Presumably you would need to use some RTs in 2018 to book your 2019 reservations.
> Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk



Okay, thanks for helping me through this.   I guess this means my goal is to only ever spend $19 once..


----------



## staceyeileen

njbelf said:


> Okay, thanks for helping me through this.   I guess this means my goal is to only ever spend $19 once..


The new rule where every transaction burns an RT is definitely less flexible and I foresee myself paying the fee more often for sure.  I also receive 3 free per year based on my total number of points. In the past, I tried to plan out my year and make as many reservations as I could in one day so that I only burned 1 RT.  Those days are over unfortunately.  

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## debrinkleyusa

Anyone know why the VIP discounts start at midnight eastern time zone but the instant upgrades from one size to the next do not begin at that time?  Does anyone know what time the size upgrades begin?  I've already learned that the "automatic" upgrade feature is NOT working so the only upgrade we can hope for is the one we get at the time of booking.


----------



## linpat

The new Wyndham is one of the most awkward websites I've ever used. It makes me wonder if the IT guys and the web designers even own timeshares of their own. I suspect not, or they would have known that owners want ease of navigation, and not having to repeat steps in the process.


----------



## Sandi Bo

linpat said:


> The new Wyndham is one of the most awkward websites I've ever used. It makes me wonder if the IT guys and the web designers even own timeshares of their own. I suspect not, or they would have known that owners want ease of navigation, and not having to repeat steps in the process.


I'm wondering if they've ever coded before.  We know they've never tested.

My attitude is not about not accepting change. I can roll with the best of them. But WYN has no business running Club Wyndham on this bug fraught, feature-shy website.  It'll be interesting to see what fill rates are (if that's available to us) - seems like they are erring on the side of not making rooms available (so they don't overbook).  No one wants them to overbook, but it's a shame it seems rooms will be sitting empty (as I suspect they don't really know what's available anymore). Will we ever know the stats for when they aren't able to cancel a room, but refund the points, and the room sits empty?   I'm not seeing rooms opening up under 60 days - I had expected we'd at least see 1 bedroom units.


----------



## cayman01

Sandi Bo said:


> I'm wondering if they've ever coded before.  We know they've never tested.
> 
> My attitude is not about not accepting change. I can roll with the best of them. But WYN has no business running Club Wyndham on this bug fraught, feature-shy website.  It'll be interesting to see what fill rates are (if that's available to us) - seems like they are erring on the side of not making rooms available (so they don't overbook).  No one wants them to overbook, but it's a shame it seems rooms will be sitting empty (as I suspect they don't really know what's available anymore). Will we ever know the stats for when they aren't able to cancel a room, but refund the points, and the room sits empty?   I'm not seeing rooms opening up under 60 days - I had expected we'd at least see 1 bedroom units.


I'm beginning to think that there was so much phantom inventory that that is why you are not seeing cancelled inventory come back. Your good reservation from before the Great Debacle now takes the place of a phantom inventory reservation made during the first few days of the new system. One less owner to disappoint.


----------



## Sandy VDH

debrinkleyusa said:


> Anyone know why the VIP discounts start at midnight eastern time zone but the instant upgrades from one size to the next do not begin at that time?  Does anyone know what time the size upgrades begin?  I've already learned that the "automatic" upgrade feature is NOT working so the only upgrade we can hope for is the one we get at the time of booking.




I noticed that it was not until about 1.5 hours into the "day" before I was offered an upgrade at time of booking, at the 60 day mark exactly.  Frustrating was that it showed ghost upgrades available for about 15 hours that day, even though no upgrade was available.  My late booking for the resort did not yield an upgraded even though I canceled two larger units the day before,  I guess someone else got my cancellations. 

I assume during that 1.5 delay some program is running to match upgrades available with upgrades requested.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Sandi Bo said:


> I'm wondering if they've ever coded before.  We know they've never tested.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see what fill rates are



Do you mean occupancy levels?




Sandi Bo said:


> I'm not seeing rooms opening up under 60 days - I had expected we'd at least see 1 bedroom units.



Neither am I, and I specifically cancelled two 1 BR units, which is the smallest unit at this resort.  I cancelled them 15 hours before the 60 day mark,  The unit never came back into inventory, I checked every 20 mins for most the day but took a break to sleep.  Never saw the units back in inventory ever.  I cancelled 5 units that day, and none returned.


----------



## CO skier

cayman01 said:


> I'm beginning to think that there was so much phantom inventory that that is why you are not seeing cancelled inventory come back. Your good reservation from before the Great Debacle now takes the place of a phantom inventory reservation made during the first few days of the new system. One less owner to disappoint.


I cannot keep track of it in the different threads, but there were a few mentions of the cancelled units returning 24-48 hours after the cancellation.  I remember one in particular that involved a couple of 4 BR Presidentials eventually returning to inventory, but in a timeframe that would make cancel/rebook -- cancel ... wait a day or two ... rebook at discount.

It may be that cancelled reservations are manually reviewed before release to confirm that there is no phantom inventory reservations that were made in error that need to be covered.


----------



## happyhopian

Sandy VDH said:


> Do you mean occupancy levels?
> Neither am I, and I specifically cancelled two 1 BR units, which is the smallest unit at this resort.  I cancelled them 15 hours before the 60 day mark,  The unit never came back into inventory, I checked every 20 mins for most the day but took a break to sleep.  Never saw the units back in inventory ever.  I cancelled 5 units that day, and none returned.



I am convinced that there are holds on most of the resorts. If you are seeing no inventory at a resort then do not expect cancelled inventory to return. There are several very popular beach and of course BC for which this happens VERY often. I can attest that BC is placed in negative inventory every christmas for the last 5 years. Presidential 4br units there are also placed in negative inventory 60 days out. This keeps them from returning to inventory until they are manually processed...I know because I have asked lots of escalated questions in the past.

YES they are in oversold status. This has been posted on numerous threads. If inventory is blank before you cancel do not expect it to come back.


----------



## CO skier

Sandy VDH said:


> I cancelled them 15 hours before the 60 day mark,  The unit never came back into inventory, I checked every 20 mins for most the day but took a break to sleep.  Never saw the units back in inventory ever.  I cancelled 5 units that day, and none returned.


Why lose sleep?  If someone cancels a reservation, what does it matter when it returns to inventory?  The only reason someone would (or should) cancel a reservation is if their plans changed, and they no longer need the reservation.

If someone cancels a reservation, but is concerned about when it returns presumably for rebooking at a discount, isn't this just the same thing that brought on the current effort to thwart this very activity?


----------



## CO skier

From a recent Facebook post:

*"Even the agents don't have a clue how long it takes for a reservation cancellation to come back into the system -- one of them stayed on phone line and we both watched for 1-2 hours (and I continued checking for days) with the smallest unit never showing up (no way it could have been because of upgrade)."*


Does this mean the VC stayed on the line for "1-2 hours" looking for the return of a cancellation?  I find that hard to believe, but if so, that would explain to a large extent why wait times are now measured in hours.  And for what?  The owner cancelled the reservation ... done ... goodbye.  Let the VC help someone who is not gaming the system and just wants to make a reservation for their own use.


----------



## IT Guy

One of the most frustrating things for me is not being able to cancel reservations.  This problem is getting worse, not better.  Today I called to get help cancelling a reservation that had reached the 15 day limit.  The VC could not cancel it either.  They told me they annotated the problem in my account and said I should call back in a few days to ask another VC or owner care rep to try cancelling it again and then they would give me back my points.  It is obvious that Wyndham does not have a handle on this new system (under-statement) and for my reservations it is getting worse each day.


----------



## time4share

IT Guy said:


> One of the most frustrating things for me is not being able to cancel reservations.  This problem is getting worse, not better.  Today I called to get help cancelling a reservation that had reached the 15 day limit.  The VC could not cancel it either.  They told me they annotated the problem in my account and said I should call back in a few days to ask another VC or owner care rep to try cancelling it again and then they would give me back my points.  It is obvious that Wyndham does not have a handle on this new system (under-statement) and for my reservations it is getting worse each day.



Can you believe they wouldn't have built dummy testing site first.  Worked out the bugs first before effecting millions of owners prime Vacation times. I'm pretty angry myself. I have 3 million points in about ten different contracts and pay a tremendous maintenance fee each month. I'm an I T Guy myself and know this is the crap you just don't do. Graaaaaa!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> From a recent Facebook post:
> 
> *"Even the agents don't have a clue how long it takes for a reservation cancellation to come back into the system -- one of them stayed on phone line and we both watched for 1-2 hours (and I continued checking for days) with the smallest unit never showing up (no way it could have been because of upgrade)."*
> 
> 
> Does this mean the VC stayed on the line for "1-2 hours" looking for the return of a cancellation?  I find that hard to believe, but if so, that would explain to a large extent why wait times are now measured in hours.  And for what?  The owner cancelled the reservation ... done ... goodbye.  Let the VC help someone who is not gaming the system and just wants to make a reservation for their own use.




Whether the member is gaming the system or not is not the issue.

Whats happening with inventory is.

Was all that  that surprise inventory and the reservations and upgrades that happened immediately after this new website was rolled out "phantom inventory" and the result, double booking or not? 

When I cancel a reservation, is that reservation going back into inventory and made available to you (and the rest of the membership) or is it going to correct the massive overbooking problem that I think the resorts are going to have to deal with. And when you make a reservation; can you count on it sticking?

Large blocks of inventory are just not being presented to us at this time. and thats a problem  And if one bedroom cancellations are not coming back into inventory to rebook (or so another owner can book it);  thats a problem.  and begs the question;  are three bedroom cancellations filling another owners upgrade request or not?

Should i assume that this new website and inventory management system designed for the ownership, or is it designed to supply inventory to Wyndhams own rental program. We dont know. If that one bedroom cancellation came back into inventory, that would give us a clue.  That it didnt bothers me a lot


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> Why lose sleep?  If someone cancels a reservation, what does it matter when it returns to inventory?  The only reason someone would (or should) cancel a reservation is if their plans changed, and they no longer need the reservation.
> 
> If someone cancels a reservation, but is concerned about when it returns presumably for rebooking at a discount, isn't this just the same thing that brought on the current effort to thwart this very activity?




If a one bedroom cancellation I cancel dosent come back into inventory it means that you cant book it either . And if it dosent, I would assume that  the three bedroom I cancel  wont go to to provide another owner their automatic upgrade.

And if wyndham is holding cancellations; is that by design or is it a problem with the system? and if its by design is it to correct an overbooking problem, or is it to supply inventory to wyndham's own rental program?

You win, the cancel rebook and upgrade game is dead..  But dont you even wonder, whether it was killed for the benefit of the Club or just to be nasty, or for the benefit of the the Wyndham rental program?


----------



## wed100105

I had the same thoughts as Ron regarding Wyndham's crappy website and their $$$ rental business.


----------



## Sandi Bo

My primary concern (if you haven't figured it out) is that system is not working properly.  And huge concerns on when it will be fixed.  Sure feels like we're flapping in the wind these days (along with the VC's, WYN IT, etc).


----------



## cayman01

ronparise said:


> If a one bedroom cancellation I cancel dosent come back into inventory it means that you cant book it. And if it dosent, I would assume that  the three bedroom I cancel  wont go to to provide another owner their automatic upgrade.
> 
> And if wyndham is holding cancellations; is that by design or is it a problem with the system? and if its by design is it to correct an overbooking problem, or is it to supply inventory to wyndham's own rental program?
> 
> You win, the cancel rebook and upgrade game is dead..  Dont you even wonder, whether it was killed for the benefit of the Club or just to be nasty, or for the benefit of the the Wyndham rental program?



I for one am going to vote for "benefitting the Club" at this time. Wyndham still has tons of inventory to sell at this point and they do not want to screw their sales efforts. I just think their software sucks . Then again I could be very wrong....


----------



## Sandi Bo

happyhopian said:


> I am convinced that there are holds on most of the resorts. If you are seeing no inventory at a resort then do not expect cancelled inventory to return. There are several very popular beach and of course BC for which this happens VERY often. I can attest that BC is placed in negative inventory every christmas for the last 5 years. Presidential 4br units there are also placed in negative inventory 60 days out. This keeps them from returning to inventory until they are manually processed...I know because I have asked lots of escalated questions in the past.
> 
> YES they are in oversold status. This has been posted on numerous threads. If inventory is blank before you cancel do not expect it to come back.


Your post makes sense, points well taken, but you are also assuming the system is working properly. We've seen no evidence of that.  On the other hand, lots of good reasons to trust nothing these days.


----------



## Sandi Bo

Sandy VDH said:


> Do you mean occupancy levels?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither am I, and I specifically cancelled two 1 BR units, which is the smallest unit at this resort.  I cancelled them 15 hours before the 60 day mark,  The unit never came back into inventory, I checked every 20 mins for most the day but took a break to sleep.  Never saw the units back in inventory ever.  I cancelled 5 units that day, and none returned.



Yes, I mean occupancy levels. Someone posted there were empty rooms at Glacier Canyon over Memorial Day weekend. They said rooms were available but couldn't be booked.

Kudos to the VC's taking the time to try to trouble shoot as well. Looking blindly the other way is not going to make this situation go away.  I gave up on wishful thinking (and self-healing software) years ago.  Wishful thinking (nor patience) are good IT strategies.


----------



## Sandy VDH

CO skier said:


> Why lose sleep?  If someone cancels a reservation, what does it matter when it returns to inventory?  The only reason someone would (or should) cancel a reservation is if their plans changed, and they no longer need the reservation.
> 
> If someone cancels a reservation, but is concerned about when it returns presumably for rebooking at a discount, isn't this just the same thing that brought on the current effort to thwart this very activity?



It was a exercise I did on purpose to try to observe how the new system is behaving in terms of processing and the timing of that processing.  It is up to me to decide if I want to cancel and try to rebook.  Actually I was trying it because there was STILL INVENTORY AVAILABLE at the resort that I booked at the 60 day mark.  So I wasn't gaming the system, because I got my discount.  I was trying to come to some conclusion about what is going on in the black box of wyndham's new booking system, one that apparently is the exact same for BOTH customers and VC at call center.  So the search feature really suck for them.


----------



## time4share

I think we should all stop paying our maintenance fees and boycot wyndham. Then let's all make bbb complaints as well as attorney general complaints and see if that gets their attention. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

time4share said:


> I think we should all stop paying our maintenance fees and boycot wyndham. Then let's all make bbb complaints as well as attorney general complaints and see if that gets their attention.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Thats not the way I would handle it... You still own the resort, and you are still responsible for your fair share of its maintenance and upkeep. And the maintenance fees have nothing to do with the administration of the club.    If you dont pay the hoa can foreclose.

perhaps you mean to advise withholding the program fee


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> Thats just stupid......
> 
> perhaps you mean to advise withholding the program fee


*Agree.*  Stop payimg MF's and the resorts themselves are hurt.  The new system is frustrating them as much as it is the owners.  They are just forced to put a good face on the situation.

It would have minimal impact on WYN to stop paying the Program fees at this juncture.  They cannot get the points accounting correct and have no capacity for accurate reconciliation on an account.  Ergo, they won't be able to figure out how to apply a "MF only" payment to an owner's account.  They will just see it as a short payment and the account will eventually go into arrears and default.

Stupid is a little harsh however given the current frustrations.  Can we go with "misguided" please?


----------



## time4share

ronparise said:


> Whether the member is gaming the system or not is not the issue.
> 
> Whats happening with inventory is.
> 
> Was all that  that surprise inventory and the reservations and upgrades that happened immediately after this new website was rolled out "phantom inventory" and the result, double booking or not?
> 
> When I cancel a reservation, is that reservation going back into inventory and made available to you (and the rest of the membership) or is it going to correct the massive overbooking problem that I think the resorts are going to have to deal with. And when you make a reservation; can you count on it sticking?
> 
> Large blocks of inventory are just not being presented to us at this time. and thats a problem  And if one bedroom cancellations are not coming back into inventory to rebook (or so another owner can book it);  thats a problem.  and begs the question;  are three bedroom cancellations filling another owners upgrade request or not?
> 
> Should i assume that this new website and inventory management system designed for the ownership, or is it designed to supply inventory to Wyndhams own rental program. We dont know. If that one bedroom cancellation came back into inventory, that would give us a clue.  That it didnt bothers me a lot



The agents use the same system as you and I. A vc manager has a step above them in being able to see more tabs. But not much more. They are just more experienced in knowing how to use it. This really is frustrating. Look I my original post. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> .
> 
> Stupid is a little harsh however given the current frustrations.  Can we go with "misguided" please?



I've edited my post to say that withholding fees is a perfectly reasonable way to indicate his displeasure with the new website. But that I would do things differently


----------



## Pietin

ronparise said:


> If a one bedroom cancellation I cancel dosent come back into inventory it means that you cant book it either .



Could it just be a function on the "wait list" no releasing the rooms in highly sought after resorts or timeframes?  Is the "wait list" automatic in confirming a room or does the person have a little time to accept or release the hold?  Don't know but like the rest of us, I sure we will find out.


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> No I don't think so
> 
> The individual may misguided or ignorant; maybe stupid is the wrong word for what he said but i can't  think of anything stronger


C'mon.  *Are you really wanting to be that mean spirited?*  Stupid infers "having or showing a lack of ability to learn and understand things" and, not unlike the rest of us, the OP is trying to understand how to navigate all this frustration. Do not see indication of dimwitted or doltish postings but certainly unwise and imprudent.  Speaks more to misguided than stupid.


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> C'mon.  *Are you really wanting to be that mean spirited?*  Stupid infers "having or showing a lack of ability to learn and understand things" and, not unlike the rest of us, the OP is trying to understand how to navigate all this frustration. Do not see indication of dimwitted or doltish postings but certainly unwise and imprudent.  Speaks more to misguided than stupid.





ronparise said:


> Thats just stupid... You still own the resort, and you are still responsible for your fair share of its maintenance and upkeep. And the maintenance fees have nothing to do with the administration of the club.    If you dont pay the hoa can foreclose.
> 
> perhaps you mean to advise withholding the program fee



Yes I really meant stupid but I changed my post to say something I don't mean

I'm now willing  to say that withholding mf is a reasonable thing to do and will no doubt have the desired result

I just don't believe it


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> Yes I really meant stupid but I changed my post to say something I don't mean
> 
> I'm now willing  to say that withholding mf is a reasonable thing to do and will no doubt have the desired result
> 
> I just don't believe it


So, simple translation is Yes, you really do want to be that mean spirited.  Got it.


----------



## ronparise

Pietin said:


> Could it just be a function on the "wait list" no releasing the rooms in highly sought after resorts or timeframes?  Is the "wait list" automatic in confirming a room or does the person have a little time to accept or release the hold?  Don't know but like the rest of us, I sure we will find out.



There is no waitlist. There is an auto upgrade feature

Since a one bedroom is not an upgrade one would expect it to drop back into available status when cancelled


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> So, simple translation is Yes, you really do want to be that mean spirited.  Got it.



No not mean, stupid


----------



## famy27

Has anyone had a reservation cancelled outright by Wyndham or shown up at a resort to find they didn't have a reservation? I've seen upgrades getting pulled back, but I'm wondering if anyone has had a reservation cancelled since the rollout. I'm still feeling concerned about my Glacier Canyon stay.


----------



## jules54

I truly dislike the new system. I agree with every complaint about the new system. What I do not agree with is when some owners complain about high point owners taking all the good reservations and renting them. When I bought my Wyndham contracts and upgraded to larger contracts I was guaranteed the options of booking and renting my units. That is why I acquired more points and more contracts to get to a different level. The cancel/rebook for discounted points was something the sales weasels raved about. The upgrade features also. By me using these promised benefits to my advantage, why do some owners believe that is gaming the system and caused a total redo of the reservation system. That is just silly.
All owners of the same level had the same chance to get reservations. Sometimes you had to be awake much earlier then you wished and risk losing your job because you were checking the website every few minutes at work  I finally retired so I no longer have that problem. So now I have more time to build my small rental business and WHAM new website that totally sucks. Owners that rent work at it. Not everyone is a mega renter.

Sometimes I fear it comes down to jealousy of what some think others are getting that they are not. For every point owned there is a fee to pay. For every contract owned there is a different resort fee to pay. This is the system. To fault others for using what is available to them and what they paid for is very wrong IMO.

Yes owners could stop paying their fees, but the problem there is you won't be able to use the points you already paid for on top of your contract purchase. I may consider doing that at some point if I continue to not be able to find reservations to fill the requests I have for rentals as I don't need all those points for my personal use.

Some owners have been long time members of TUG and have been very helpful through the years to myself and others. Very generous with their advice. Some owners are newer and seem to be somewhat more concerned with sentence structure and spelling or wording with considerable corrections. Maybe it isn't even the members are new maybe it is because people don't really know each other on the boards and all is hidden.

Thank you for the opportunity to express how I feel and learn for others about things that there is no where else to learn them.

BTW Wyndham does monitor this board as some have discussed. As after my last post I received a message for Wyndham that they are aware of my concern that has been posted on public forums about the new website. Big brother IS reading.


----------



## ronparise

jules54 said:


> I truly dislike the new system. I agree with every complaint about the new system. What I do not agree with is when some owners complain about high point owners taking all the good reservations and renting them. When I bought my Wyndham contracts and upgraded to larger contracts I was guaranteed the options of booking and renting my units. That is why I acquired more points and more contracts to get to a different level. The cancel/rebook for discounted points was something the sales weasels raved about. The upgrade features also. By me using these promised benefits to my advantage, why do some owners believe that is gaming the system and caused a total redo of the reservation system. That is just silly.
> All owners of the same level had the same chance to get reservations. Sometimes you had to be awake much earlier then you wished and risk losing your job because you were checking the website every few minutes at work  I finally retired so I no longer have that problem. So now I have more time to build my small rental business and WHAM new website that totally sucks. Owners that rent work at it. Not everyone is a mega renter.
> 
> Sometimes I fear it comes down to jealousy of what some think others are getting that they are not. For every point owned there is a fee to pay. For every contract owned there is a different resort fee to pay. This is the system. To fault others for using what is available to them and what they paid for is very wrong IMO.
> 
> Yes owners could stop paying their fees, but the problem there is you won't be able to use the points you already paid for on top of your contract purchase. I may consider doing that at some point if I continue to not be able to find reservations to fill the requests I have for rentals as I don't need all those points for my personal use.
> 
> Some owners have been long time members of TUG and have been very helpful through the years to myself and others. Very generous with their advice. Some owners are newer and seem to be somewhat more concerned with sentence structure and spelling or wording with considerable corrections. Maybe it isn't even the members are new maybe it is because people don't really know each other on the boards and all is hidden.
> 
> Thank you for the opportunity to express how I feel and learn for others about things that there is no where else to learn them.
> 
> BTW Wyndham does monitor this board as some have discussed. As after my last post I received a message for Wyndham that they are aware of my concern that has been posted on public forums about the new website. Big brother IS reading.




The problem and the reason for the new rules isn't that some others think Anyone was gaming the system or envious of what I was doing 

My problem was that wyndhan felt that way. They don't  like that it is (or was) possible to get VIP for $12000 and they didn't like that VIPs got discounts and upgrades on nearly every reservation and they didn't like that it was possible to sell stripped contracts and therby get 3 years of points for 6 months of maintenance fees

And it's important to remember that the reason they didn't like these practices is because it wasn't fair to the rest of the membership

So bottom line; what's happening with the rules is being done to make the system fair. 

At least in my opinion that's wyndhams position


----------



## tschwa2

I don't even know that Wyndham cares about fair to the rest of the membership.  I think they they don't think it is fair to their bottom line in some way shape or form.  Wyndham was aware of these practices but until the audit last year wasn't really aware of the scope.


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> The problem and the reason for the new rules isn't that some others think Anyone was gaming the system or envious of what I was doing
> 
> My problem was that wyndhan felt that way. They don't  like that it is (or was) possible to get VIP for $12000 and they didn't like that VIPs got discounts and upgrades on nearly every reservation and they didn't like that it was possible to sell stripped contracts and therby get 3 years of points for 6 months of maintenance fees
> 
> And it's important to remember that the reason they didn't like these practices is because it wasn't fair to the rest of the membership
> 
> So bottom line; what's happening with the rules is being done to make the system fair.
> 
> At least in my opinion that's wyndhams position


Again, this speaks to the *FEW* taking advantage of loopholes in the system that most VIP owners were not doing and, in some scenarios, would consider unethical.  Of course WYN wouldn't like this kind of owner practices!!!  DUH!  But MOST VIP owners did none of the above of what you describe.  They followed the outline of what sales told them was an integral part of the ownership they (for significantly more $$ than $12K) purchased.   Changes we are seeing now is to close the loopholes so that the *extreme* abuse could not longer occur.

Thus far, the loopholes may be closed but they have yet to stick the landing.  We are now ALL saddled with a very messy fallout.

And, let's please NOT rehash what the actual VlP ownership entails vs what the perceived VIP ownerships included.  We already know that nothing about VIP was ever a guarantee.  Old news.  Sales invented a lot of promises of "guarantee" in order to make the sale.  And WYN allowed much of it to happen for YEARS.  Legally, VIPs are now stuck with the consequence of empty promises for a lot of $$ out of pocket and people telling them that the new system will be more "fair."

For those that wrote those big checks, nothing about it feels fair.  Doesn't mean that it can be changed but let's at least make room for and understand the frustrations.


----------



## tschwa2

I think the points stripping and the extreme discounts for platinum might have been relatively isolated but the cancel rebook was widespread.  Looking at one of the Wyndham fb pages it seems like 50-90% of platinum owners expected it on most reservations.  Even if it was only a million points all bought retail getting 4 million points of reservations while paying for 1 million points of MF;s that is a lot of inventory that Wyndham could use in other ways.


----------



## wed100105

Jules54-excellent posts! Thank you!!


----------



## scootr5

jules54 said:


> When I bought my Wyndham contracts and upgraded to larger contracts I was guaranteed the options of booking and renting my units.



That guarantee was in your contract you signed?


----------



## chapjim

BellaWyn said:


> Again, this speaks to the *FEW* taking advantage of loopholes in the system that most VIP owners were not doing and, in some scenarios, would consider unethical.  Of course WYN wouldn't like this kind of owner practices!!!  DUH!  But MOST VIP owners did none of the above of what you describe.  They followed the outline of what sales told them was an integral part of the ownership they (for significantly more $$ than $12K) purchased.   Changes we are seeing now is to close the loopholes so that the *extreme* abuse could not longer occur.
> 
> Thus far, the loopholes may be closed but they have yet to stick the landing.  We are now ALL saddled with a very messy fallout.
> 
> And, let's please NOT rehash what the actual VlP ownership entails vs what the perceived VIP ownerships included.  We already know that nothing about VIP was ever a guarantee.  Old news.  Sales invented a lot of promises of "guarantee" in order to make the sale.  And WYN allowed much of it to happen for YEARS.  Legally, VIPs are now stuck with the consequence of empty promises for a lot of $$ out of pocket and people telling them that the new system will be more "fair."
> 
> For those that wrote those big checks, nothing about it feels fair.  Doesn't mean that it can be changed but let's at least make room for and understand the frustrations.



What bothers me is the fact that Wyndham hurt most those who spent the most money on purchases and who continue to spend the most money on maintenance fees.


----------



## ronparise

tschwa2 said:


> I don't even know that Wyndham cares about fair to the rest of the membership.  I think they they don't think it is fair to their bottom line in some way shape or form.  Wyndham was aware of these practices but until the audit last year wasn't really aware of the scope.



I don't see how any of these changes affects wyndhams bottom line


----------



## ronparise

scootr5 said:


> That guarantee was in your contract you signed?



He can still make reservations and rent


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> I don't see how any of these changes affects wyndhams bottom line


Maybe we can revisit this statement a year from now.  Hindsight is always a premium seat when watching
the game.


----------



## Jan M.

ronparise said:


> I don't see how any of these changes affects wyndhams bottom line



If VIP owners aren't able to get the discounts and upgrades they will use and need more points for the reservations they are accustomed to making. Since they've already spent a significant amount of money buying directly from Wyndham that makes them a good prospect for sales.


----------



## scootr5

ronparise said:


> He can still make reservations and rent



Ah, I didn't have my glasses on, and read it as "booking and upgrading".


----------



## ronparise

Jan M. said:


> If VIP owners aren't able to get the discounts and upgrades they will use and need more points for the reservations they are accustomed to making. Since they've already spent a significant amount of money buying directly from Wyndham that makes them a good prospect for sales.



It might also convince them to sell.

 Or since there is no difference between retail  and resale now, maybe they will buy on the secondary market


----------



## BellaWyn

Jan M. said:


> If VIP owners aren't able to get the discounts and upgrades they will use and need more points for the reservations they are accustomed to making. Since they've already spent a significant amount of money buying directly from Wyndham that makes them a good prospect for sales.


On the flip side, frustrated VIP owners might possibly become so disilusioned with their ownerships that they end up turning their fully paid contacts back to WYN through Ovations. WYN will dump those into the CWA portfolio thereby getting additional acceleration on the growth of CWA.  CWA Club is the optimal model for WYN.

Either senario is a WIN for WYN.   Chaos can be engineered to obtain a specific result.


----------



## IT Guy

BellaWyn said:


> On the flip side, frustrated VIP owners might possibly become so disilusioned with their ownerships that they end up turning their fully paid contacts back to WYN through Ovations. WYN will dump those into the CWA portfolio thereby getting additional acceleration on the growth of CWA.  CWA Club is the optimal model for WYN.
> 
> Either senario is a WIN for WYN.   Chaos can be engineered to obtain a specific result.



You are spot on with your prediction.  I have already asked Ovation to take back 4 contracts because of this.  The last thing I wanted was to reward Wyndham for this fiasco but they have my points buckets so mixed up now I can't possibly know how many of next year's points I could promise to a private buyer.  Wyndham on the other hand said they will just make a "points adjustment" to make sure all the 2018 points transfer to them when they take over the ownership.  Do you all think this Getting Out of Wyndham topic is worthy of a new thread?  I already looked at the Ovation thread.


----------



## time4share

IT Guy said:


> You are spot on with your prediction.  I have already asked Ovation to take back 4 contracts because of this.  The last thing I wanted was to reward Wyndham for this fiasco but they have my points buckets so mixed up now I can't possibly know how many of next year's points I could promise to a private buyer.  Wyndham on the other hand said they will just make a "points adjustment" to make sure all the 2018 points transfer to them when they take over the ownership.  Do you all think this Getting Out of Wyndham topic is worthy of a new thread?  I already looked at the Ovation thread.



All seriousness we should all band together and see a lawyer for a class action and demand our money back. This is so possible you just don't realize. I'm fed up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan M.

ronparise said:


> It might also convince to sell.
> 
> Or since there is no difference between rental and resale now, maybe they will buy on the secondary market



Both are good points. You've been saying for months that changes were coming and we VIP owners most likely wouldn't be happy. I saw the wisdom of what you were saying so was mentally prepared when we found out what they were. The new website still came as a shock, a big shock. Again I agree with you that the best thing to do is buckle down and learn to use it and accept that making reservations is going to take more work now.

It is going to be interesting over the next year or two to see if the changes and the new website benefit sales, and I'm sure they all believe it will, or it backfires on them. There are still a lot of owners out there who have never heard of TUG and have no idea about buying on the secondary market. There is a good chance that a lot of owners are now varying degrees of unhappy and will be talking to other owners when they are staying at the resorts more than in the past. I've observed that unhappy, confused owners tend to feel the need to talk to other owners and other guests when they stay at the resorts. Wyndham sales people may find it harder to sell to existing owners than before and have more sales rescinded by new owners too. Time will tell. 

It should be interesting to hear what people are saying at the owners meeting. A VC told me that even with the larger venue the sign up was closed in record time.


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> I don't see how any of these changes affects wyndhams bottom line


I heard one argument this week which 'could' make a point - Wyndham could get more inventory at 60 days for extra holidays, which goes directly to their bottom line.


----------



## Bigrob

Jan M. said:


> If VIP owners aren't able to get the discounts and upgrades they will use and need more points for the reservations they are accustomed to making. Since they've already spent a significant amount of money buying directly from Wyndham that makes them a good prospect for sales.





ronparise said:


> It might also convince them to sell.
> 
> Or since there is no difference between retail  and resale now, maybe they will buy on the secondary market



Exactly right. I don't believe this is a factor that impacts Wyndham's bottom line one way or the other.

However, what may impact Wyndham's bottom line is a reduction in sales/marketing costs for providing the VIP benefits program. The reduction in the benefit accrues directly to reducing this expense. (If platinum VIP owners were averaging 2M of reservations on 1M of points, there was a sales expense for those 1M points; if that benefit now becomes 1.1M of reservations on 1M points, there is a tenfold reduction on the cost associated with that portion of the VIP program.)


----------



## cayman01

I think we all need to sit back a few minutes and let the air clear. Let's see if they can get the software straightened out in a timely fashion. I for one do not believe that Wyndham planned this fiasco. Their own people cannot even do anything with this system and they were supposedly trained on it. Let's first get Voyager fixed the way it was intended to work and go from there. Happyhopian talked to somebody at Wyndham who said there was still lots of things they were going to implement. 

 If Wyndham gets the software right, and the available inventory right I think that will go a LONG way in  making things right for owners. Yes, they made a mess of the Voyager launch. They didn't test it properly not dis they implement it properly. Let's see what the finished fixed product is before we pass final judgement on them. If it is still awful at that point then you can start in on the lawsuits, dumping contracts, etc.


----------



## Bigrob

CO skier said:


> Why lose sleep?  If someone cancels a reservation, what does it matter when it returns to inventory?  The only reason someone would (or should) cancel a reservation is if their plans changed, and they no longer need the reservation.
> 
> If someone cancels a reservation, but is concerned about when it returns presumably for rebooking at a discount, isn't this just the same thing that brought on the current effort to thwart this very activity?



Not necessarily. While that could be one intended purpose, there are also situations that I think you would agree are "legitimate" reasons for canceling and rebooking. For example, you may want to reduce or extend your stay by one night. With the new system, you can't risk it, so you have to "burn" the extra night, leaving an empty unit that might otherwise have gone to another owner who really needed the night you wanted to release... or you have to add 2 additional nights because you can't just add one, again with the result being wasting your points (and possible occupancy for another owner) in the process.

The new system is a mess and does not offer the flexibility of Worldmark's system. Sometimes I wonder why they didn't just adopt the Worldmark system, add the Wyndham resorts to it, and go from there. One system to maintain instead of two and an improved booking experience. I guess Wyndham viewed there were too many differences between the way the two points systems work, but starting from the ground up doesn't seem to have worked out so well.


----------



## Bigrob

cayman01 said:


> I think we all need to sit back a few minutes and let the air clear. Let's see if they can get the software straightened out in a timely fashion. I for one do not believe that Wyndham planned this fiasco. Their own people cannot even do anything with this system and they were supposedly trained on it. Let's first get Voyager fixed the way it was intended to work and go from there. Happyhopian talked to somebody at Wyndham who said there was still lots of things they were going to implement.
> 
> If Wyndham gets the software right, and the available inventory right I think that will go a LONG way in  making things right for owners. Yes, they made a mess of the Voyager launch. They didn't test it properly not dis they implement it properly. Let's see what the finished fixed product is before we pass final judgement on them. If it is still awful at that point then you can start in on the lawsuits, dumping contracts, etc.



They are already past the window of getting "the software straightened out in a timely fashion." 

The issues with data integrity, reservation integrity, inventory management, etc. - are significant enough to erode all confidence. No one knows whether the reservation or upgrade they are booking in the new system will "stick". No one can be convinced that the reservation data, points data, etc. are accurate from day to day. People are trying to make ARP reservations for next summer NOW. They can't wait 3-6 months for Wyndham to fix all the issues, only to find out that someone else managed to connect with a better VC than they did and booked the last available unit for their summer vacation next year.

Yes, fixing the search function and making inventory much more transparent is an important issue. But the data integrity issues are even more critical.


----------



## cayman01

Bigrob said:


> They are already past the window of getting "the software straightened out in a timely fashion."
> 
> The issues with data integrity, reservation integrity, inventory management, etc. - are significant enough to erode all confidence. No one knows whether the reservation or upgrade they are booking in the new system will "stick". No one can be convinced that the reservation data, points data, etc. are accurate from day to day. People are trying to make ARP reservations for next summer NOW. They can't wait 3-6 months for Wyndham to fix all the issues, only to find out that someone else managed to connect with a better VC than they did and booked the last available unit for their summer vacation next year.
> 
> Yes, fixing the search function and making inventory much more transparent is an important issue. But the data integrity issues are even more critical.



Completely agree with you, but the thing is this system is not serving 100 people or 1000. It is trying to serve over half a million. It's not going to be a quick fix. I don't like it any better than the next person but this is the situation we find ourselves in. This is going to take quite a bit of time to fix and there is nothing we as owners can do to speed it up. I will give them every chance to make it right. If they can't or won't then I will move on. But I am not going to pull the plug before then, and I don't think anybody else should either.

 I understand that people are planning for next summer, but we are all in the same boat. Some of us are going to be disappointed just like in the old system ( how can Mardi Gras be sold out? It's 7:15 am!). I would like the system fixed RIGHT NOW! But sadly, it just isn't going to be that quick.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Whatever Wyndham is doing or NOT DOING, can be called MANY things. Not even one "thought" could be called a good feeling for the people who pay for the service via the company listed on the NYSE.

This is not some "Mom & Pop" corner store; not some language misunderstanding issue between members/owners and management. It is textbook incompetence, extremely bad management, and maybe even criminal actions.

Wyndham is running a SERVICE company by managing our ownership & resorts which they charge us money to do. They have a sales function which is for selling to NEW owners or upgrading ownership of current owners. They have a duty to account for our 'points' position and unit status as to availability to use..

What we currently are getting is: being STONEWALLED to book units, view correct points status, upgrading units size or views, and/or totally locked out of using our ownership. Whether it is HOURS of online or call in time required to book a reservation which we can or can not see, trust to be real inventory or get cancelled by Wyndham computer system or Wyndham's backroom manual operation. Rules changes which may benefit a FEW actual owners .. but more likely to benefit Wyndham's other corporate entities ... like Extra Holidays or the sales department for promo stays or their Discovery program inventory. If Wyndham books any inventory (up to 90% of this inventory) at 60 days before check in .. Wyndham does NOT reimburse/pay for these units ... Wyndham owners pays for the MFs & all costs for the corporate taken units. Club Wyndham owners pay for the cleanings, the electric, the taxes, the front desk labor, the wear & tear on the units ... all the while, last minute stays for owners (up to 90% of the open last minute availability) gets used by unknown and nonrevenue persons for Wyndham corporate benefit.

Does the occupancy level for the resorts show actual member usage (via category like sales guest, VIP upgrade, CWA guest, CWP guest or out of use due to not fit, etc) or just people in the unit per night? Where are the numbers as to HOW much money is reimbursed to each HOA for VIP upgrades or Housekeeping costs (aka free HKs)? The backroom accounting is just that - "BACKROOM" with what form of currency? Audit time for the HOAs income and expenses?


----------



## uscav8r

cayman01 said:


> I for one am going to vote for "benefitting the Club" at this time. Wyndham still has tons of inventory to sell at this point and they do not want to screw their sales efforts. I just think their software sucks . Then again I could be very wrong....



So are you saying the lack of accurate inventory visibility (especially in the case of the return of cancellations) is actually an intended feature? I highly doubt that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cayman01

uscav8r said:


> So are you saying the lack of accurate inventory visibility, unstable upgrade feature, and general poor booking experience are  actually intended features? I highly doubt that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Hardly. What I think is that the crap we are dealing with is the result of a horrendous programming department not corporate deviousness. Over the long run, if this continues as is, it will kill sales for Wyndham AND Ovation is going to have a TON of new properties that Wyndham has to pay the maintenance fees for. Wyndham wants no part of that. They want to spin off the TS part into its own company. You think that will happen with this fiasco on its hands? Nobody will touch it!

Crap rolls down hill. Instead of sending emails and feedback to IT we should be sending and calling corporate directly. We need to make Wyndham bigwigs understand how BAD the situation is and make them realize it is in their best interests to fix it ASAP. I'm not sure the guys way upstairs have any idea how bad this is right now. They need to know.


----------



## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> Exactly right. I don't believe this is a factor that impacts Wyndham's bottom line one way or the other.
> 
> However, what may impact Wyndham's bottom line is a reduction in sales/marketing costs for providing the VIP benefits program. The reduction in the benefit accrues directly to reducing this expense. (If platinum VIP owners were averaging 2M of reservations on 1M of points, there was a sales expense for those 1M points; if that benefit now becomes 1.1M of reservations on 1M points, there is a tenfold reduction on the cost associated with that portion of the VIP program.)



a point of clarification .   Pretty sure sales dosent compensate the club for points "saved" with the VIP discounts. Why? because there is no expense to the club because of those "extra" reservations.

All the maintenance fees due the resorts and all the program fees due the club are paid.  Maintenance fees are not reservations dependent. What I mean is that whether I get discounts for every reservation I make with my VIP account or never get a discount, ie whether I get five  200k reservations or ten 100k with my VIP account  ie whether I use use my VIP account for a lot or just a few discounted reservations all my fees are paid and the resorts and the club are paid their due. The maintenance fees a VIP owner owes are point dependent and not reservations dependent. A VIP owner gets more reservations not more points.

The compensation is  for the excess transactions and housekeeping> As you know the suite of VIP benefits includes unlimited transactions (gold and platinum) and unlimited housekeeping. Every account pays for some of this with their program fees (1 transaction credit per 77000 points and 1 housekeeping credit per 1000 points) When a VIP owner uses more of these than included with his account the club comes up short. and this is what Wyndham  has to compensate the club for (also the newspapers)


So yes i agree that the compensation will be less but not as much less as some here would think


----------



## spackler

cayman01 said:


> Hardly. What I think is that the crap we are dealing with is the result of a horrendous programming department not corporate deviousness. Over the long run, if this continues as is, it will kill sales for Wyndham AND Ovation is going to have a TON of new properties that Wyndham has to pay the maintenance fees for. Wyndham wants no part of that.



Current owners may not buy more.  But new marks aren't going to know anything about website issues; the WYN sales force depends on the type of consumer that doesn't bother to spend 10 minutes independantly researching a $20-30,000 purchase.  

WYN can acquire worthless deeds thru Ovation for essentially $0, repackage them with shiny CWA wrapping paper, and sell for tens of thousands. Stockholders will be laughing all the way to the bank.


----------



## ronparise

cayman01 said:


> Hardly. What I think is that the crap we are dealing with is the result of a horrendous programming department not corporate deviousness. Over the long run, if this continues as is, it will kill sales for Wyndham AND Ovation is going to have a TON of new properties that Wyndham has to pay the maintenance fees for. Wyndham wants no part of that. They want to spin off the TS part into its own company. You think that will happen with this fiasco on its hands? Nobody will touch it!
> 
> Crap rolls down hill. Instead of sending emails and feedback to IT we should be sending and calling corporate directly. We need to make Wyndham bigwigs understand how BAD the situation is and make them realize it is in their best interests to fix it ASAP. I'm not sure the guys way upstairs have any idea how bad this is right now. They need to know.


 steve.holmes@wyn.com   or at wyndhamworldwide.com
or
stephen.holmes@wyn.com  or at wyndhamworldwide.com


----------



## cayman01

spackler said:


> Current owners may not buy more.  But new marks aren't going to know anything about website issues; the WYN sales force depends on the type of consumer that doesn't bother to spend 10 minutes independantly researching a $20-30,000 purchase.
> 
> WYN can acquire worthless deeds thru Ovation for essentially $0, repackage them with shiny CWA wrapping paper, and sell for tens of thousands. Stockholders will be laughing all the way to the bank.



Do you really think sales will continue as they are once this laughingstock of a piece of software is public knowledge in the timeshare system? Give fresh new owners 15 minutes on this software and they are rescinding. Owner updates will be full of people talking about how bad the reservation system is. It is NOT going to be pretty if Wyndham doesn't fix this.


----------



## spackler

The website is awful, but the bugs will eventually get fixed.  Hopefully the user interface does as well.

Meanwhile, new marks will be told "processing new ownership takes a few weeks, then you'll have full access to the website" or some such nonsense.  Most people still won't realize the mistake they've made until after the recession period.  Same as always.


----------



## time4share

When it's NOT broke. Why fix it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tschwa2

No one ever gets access to  actual online systems until well past the time to rescind.  Many resorts update current owners and prospective owners in different areas for reasons like this.


----------



## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> a point of clarification .   Pretty sure sales dosent compensate the club for points "saved" with the VIP discounts. Why? because there is no expense to the club because of those "extra" reservations.
> 
> All the maintenance fees due the resorts and all the program fees due the club are paid.  Maintenance fees are not reservations dependent. What I mean is that whether I get discounts for every reservation I make with my VIP account or never get a discount, ie whether I get five  200k reservations or ten 100k with my VIP account  ie whether I use use my VIP account for a lot or just a few discounted reservations all my fees are paid and the resorts and the club are paid their due. The maintenance fees a VIP owner owes are point dependent and not reservations dependent. A VIP owner gets more reservations not more points.
> 
> The compensation is  for the excess transactions and housekeeping> As you know the suite of VIP benefits includes unlimited transactions (gold and platinum) and unlimited housekeeping. Every account pays for some of this with their program fees (1 transaction credit per 77000 points and 1 housekeeping credit per 1000 points) When a VIP owner uses more of these than included with his account the club comes up short. and this is what Wyndham  has to compensate the club for (also the newspapers)
> 
> 
> So yes i agree that the compensation will be less but not as much less as some here would think



Not quite right. The expense I am referring to is that Wyndham, through the points it owns, must make up the difference between the rack rate and the actual number of points used for discounted VIP reservations (to keep the trust "in balance"). Using points they have under control to make up this difference means those points cannot be used for Discovery, Extra Holidays, etc. 

To your point there will also be fewer reservations for the same number of points, so there are fewer reservation transactions, housekeeping charges, and yes newspapers to cover as well. Another double win for Wyn.


----------



## Sandi Bo

spackler said:


> The website is awful, but the bugs will eventually get fixed.  Hopefully the user interface does as well.
> 
> Meanwhile, new marks will be told "processing new ownership takes a few weeks, then you'll have full access to the website" or some such nonsense.  Most people still won't realize the mistake they've made until after the recession period.  Same as always.


I not sure it's even fair to call these bugs.  Doesn't that sort of imply you've got a deliverable piece of software?  This is downright shameful.

More like a protocol that was developed and will continually be updated to be a fully functional system (someday ).


----------



## Sandi Bo

spackler said:


> The website is awful, but the bugs will eventually get fixed.  Hopefully the user interface does as well.
> 
> Meanwhile, new marks will be told "processing new ownership takes a few weeks, then you'll have full access to the website" or some such nonsense.  Most people still won't realize the mistake they've made until after the recession period.  Same as always.


I not sure it's even fair to call these bugs.  Doesn't that sort of imply you've got a deliverable piece of software?  This is downright shameful.

More like a protocol that was developed and will continually be updated to be a fully functional system (someday ).


----------



## Sandi Bo

cayman01 said:


> Hardly. What I think is that the crap we are dealing with is the result of a horrendous programming department not corporate deviousness. Over the long run, if this continues as is, it will kill sales for Wyndham AND Ovation is going to have a TON of new properties that Wyndham has to pay the maintenance fees for. Wyndham wants no part of that. They want to spin off the TS part into its own company. You think that will happen with this fiasco on its hands? Nobody will touch it!
> 
> Crap rolls down hill. Instead of sending emails and feedback to IT we should be sending and calling corporate directly. We need to make Wyndham bigwigs understand how BAD the situation is and make them realize it is in their best interests to fix it ASAP. I'm not sure the guys way upstairs have any idea how bad this is right now. They need to know.


And likely started with lack of solid business requirements.  There are still things no one knows how they will work.  That's one break I'll give IT, how can they code something when they don't know the requirements?  And if they do have a testing team, how can they test something if they don't have requirements?


----------



## happyhopian

OK. This made me angry.
Wyndham is now marketing stays at bonnet creek when so many cannot use their points to book AND my computer shows Bonnet Creek completely booked for the next few months. Maybe this is what they are going to do with that inventory the 'megas' can't book anymore


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> OK. This made me angry.
> Wyndham is now marketing stays at bonnet creek when so many cannot use their points to book AND my computer shows Bonnet Creek completely booked for the next few months. Maybe this is what they are going to do with that inventory the 'megas' can't book anymore


Go to trip advisor and you will see the same thing from 'megas' also


----------



## buckor

cayman01 said:


> Completely agree with you, but the thing is this system is not serving 100 people or 1000. It is trying to serve over half a million. It's not going to be a quick fix. I don't like it any better than the next person but this is the situation we find ourselves in. This is going to take quite a bit of time to fix and there is nothing we as owners can do to speed it up. I will give them every chance to make it right. If they can't or won't then I will move on. But I am not going to pull the plug before then, and I don't think anybody else should either.
> 
> I understand that people are planning for next summer, but we are all in the same boat. Some of us are going to be disappointed just like in the old system ( how can Mardi Gras be sold out? It's 7:15 am!). I would like the system fixed RIGHT NOW! But sadly, it just isn't going to be that quick.


I used to work in the restaurant industry in various levels of management. If the company had a new product they would first design it in the company kitchen to see what the final product would look and taste like. Then, they'd bring in focus groups to test the product and get reactions. Based on those focus groups they would make adjustments to the new product as appropriate. Next, they would roll the new product out to a select number of locations to ensure the new product would be received well by the public, that the restaurants knew how to make the product appropriately, and that logistics for additional ingredients not already in the restaurants could be handled adequately. Finally, after the test markets were successful (if the test markets were not successful the product got pulled) then system-wide rollouts began.

If restaurants understand that basic ingredients are their "code" with a new menu item as their product, why doesn't Wyndham? A restaurant must be able to serve hundreds to thousands of people daily in one location....multiply that by "x" number of locations and we are now looking at the scale of Wyndham Vacation Ownership and it's owners.

A restaurant cannot slap a new seafood plate together, roll it out to all its locations, and then wonder why the new product did not succeed when people didn't like the new product or ingredients weren't logistically available, or the kitchen staff had no clue how to properly plate the new product. 

No, this is a Wyndham failure. For whatever reason Wyndham wanted to rush through the development of their new "experience," the product they are currently selling owners. I don't know if this was related to the points audits that began last year, or the possible spinoff of the TS division, or what. But, here's what customers in restaurants do when the product they receive, and pay for, is not what they expect: they talk to a manager and get a refund.

I don't think anyone here is saying any different about their "new" Wyndham "experience". You don't work the problems out with ingredients while the plate is sitting in front of everyone.

Just my $.02.  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> If a one bedroom cancellation I cancel dosent come back into inventory it means that you cant book it either . And if it dosent, I would assume that  the three bedroom I cancel  wont go to to provide another owner their automatic upgrade.
> 
> And if wyndham is holding cancellations; is that by design or is it a problem with the system? and if its by design is it to correct an overbooking problem, or is it to supply inventory to wyndham's own rental program?


Wyndham must have realized there was a problem with the migration loading "phantom" inventory, but a fair amount of that inventory may have been booked before the inventory was taken offline, resulting double booking .  Would a reasonable response be to hold cancellations to cover the overbookings?

If Wyndham was looking for cancellations to rent, they could have done this with the old system by capturing the cancellations made within 60 days including the cancel/rebook scheme.  The fact cancel/rebook was so widely practiced would indicate that was not the case.





ronparise said:


> You win, the cancel rebook and upgrade game is dead..  But dont you even wonder, whether it was killed for the benefit of the Club or just to be nasty, or for the benefit of the the Wyndham rental program?


I do not think cancel/rebook is dead.  It may be on holiday for some phantom inventory booked resorts with cancellation holds.  It will probably be back at some point in the future, but it may be a long holiday.

When some members could not cancel reservations is when I realized the reservation system problems will be with us for months.


----------



## CO skier

jules54 said:


> The cancel/rebook for discounted points was something the sales weasels raved about. The upgrade features also. By me using these promised benefits to my advantage, why do some owners believe that is gaming the system and caused a total redo of the reservation system.


The megarenter plaintiffs in the 2014 lawsuit believed Voyager was targeting the cancel/rebook scheme.

_"A March 2006 presentation recommended altering many of the VIP Program benefits, such as limiting the number of free guest confirmations available to VIPs, changing the VIP cancellation policy, and limiting the ability of VIPs to upgrade their rooms, in order to deal with the problems created by Megarenters*.*


Sometime in 2010,Wyndham began work on a new computer software system known as "Voyager." The program, which has not yet been implemented, is apparently intended to more strictly enforce the existing rules and close what Wyndham views as loopholes, such as the ability to cancel and then immediately rebook a reservation. (Doc. 123-53, at 4-5.)"_


----------



## 55plus

CO skier said:


> If Wyndham was looking for cancellations to rent, they could have done this with the old system by capturing the cancellations made within 60 days including the cancel/rebook scheme.  The fact cancel/rebook was so widely practiced would indicate that was not the case.



The old website wasn't capable of capturing cancelled reservations whereas the new website is setup with that ability. Wyndham must have an algorithm to sort the resorts they want to keep for ExtraHolidays.com from the crap they give back to us. It's Wyndham's version of,  "let them eat cake." In reality it's skimming off the top and when they use automation they tilt the playing field to their advantage, that's the real conflict of interest.


----------



## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> Not quite right. The expense I am referring to is that Wyndham, through the points it owns, must make up the difference between the rack rate and the actual number of points used for discounted VIP reservations (to keep the trust "in balance"). Using points they have under control to make up this difference means those points cannot be used for Discovery, Extra Holidays, etc.
> 
> To your point there will also be fewer reservations for the same number of points, so there are fewer reservation transactions, housekeeping charges, and yes newspapers to cover as well. Another double win for Wyn.




i dont think that they need to take  points from their ownership to compensate for discounts .   The trust is not out of balance as long as the number of points in circulation dont exceed the number of condos behind them.  ie if a new condo comes online and the rack rate is 200000 points per week; wyndham then has 200000x52 = 10,400,000 points to sell. If they sell 11 million points they have put more points in circulation than supported by the condo... that puts them out of trust.  Discounts dont create extra points

as you know I suspect wyndham was out of trust during the suspensions thing last year. and what put them there, if Im right, was the system problem that generated double and triple points, when a reservation was cancelled. not cancel and rebook (excessive discounts) and not selling stripped contracts because neither of those last two things generate extra points


----------



## njbelf

buckor said:


> I used to work in the restaurant industry
> 
> If restaurants understand that basic ingredients are their "code" with a new menu item as their product, why doesn't Wyndham? A restaurant must be able to serve hundreds to thousands of people daily in one location....multiply that by "x" number of locations and we are now looking at the scale of Wyndham Vacation Ownership and it's owners.



Because everyone believes software is free to develop.    Honestly, that is the biggest problem in IT these days.   No one understands the true cost of software development, nor would they want to pay it if they knew.    I speak as a computer engineer who has been 'around the block' a few times.


----------



## raygo123

Bigrob said:


> Not quite right. The expense I am referring to is that Wyndham, through the points it owns, must make up the difference between the rack rate and the actual number of points used for discounted VIP reservations (to keep the trust "in balance"). Using points they have under control to make up this difference means those points cannot be used for Discovery, Extra Holidays, etc.
> 
> To your point there will also be fewer reservations for the same number of points, so there are fewer reservation transactions, housekeeping charges, and yes newspapers to cover as well. Another double win for Wyn.


Or, is it possible that Wyndham added more deeds converted to CWA points to the trust hence passing the cost along to the members of the trust.  To me, I wondered why he large increase in MFs last year.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> i dont think that they need to take  points from their ownership to compensate for discounts .   The trust is not out of balance as long as the number of points in circulation dont exceed the number of condos behind them.  ie if a new condo comes online and the rack rate is 200000 points per week; wyndham then has 200000x52 = 10,400,000 points to sell. If they sell 11 million points they have put more points in circulation than supported by the condo... that puts them out of trust.  Discounts dont create extra points
> 
> as you know I suspect wyndham was out of trust during the suspensions thing last year. and what put them there, if Im right, was the system problem that generated double and triple points, when a reservation was cancelled. not cancel and rebook (excessive discounts) and not selling stripped contracts because neither of those last two things generate extra points


If there is no known reflection of REGULAR reconciliation of owner points accounting (at least annual), it's likely that the imbalances have been present for a significant period of time.  It escalates and grows over time. 

The 2016 Suspensions may have been the first indication to the ownership base how egregiously out of balance the points accounting has actually gotten.  It's plausible they have been out of trust for much longer than just the rollout of the new system or 2016 suspensions.


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> i dont think that they need to take  points from their ownership to compensate for discounts .   The trust is not out of balance as long as the number of points in circulation dont exceed the number of condos behind them.


I think the symbolic points are the currency we use in Club Wyndham, and just like a bank, the books must balance.  Think of it as one large pool of points that are the sum of all the deeded points in the system for each Use Year.  If an owner reserved a 4 BR Presidential at Bonnet Creek, 424,000 points must be deducted from that Use Year pool.

When someone cancel/rebook/upgraded to reserve a 4 BR Presidential (424,000 points) for half the points of a 1 BR (166,000/2), the 341,000 points difference had to come from somewhere.  It is reasonable to think that Wyndham withdraws from their account of unsold credits to provide the difference and balance the accounting.

If the system is, "Let's just make reservations until there are no more units to reserve", why is Wyndham so concerned about points remaining traceable to certain Use Years of the contract.   I would think they need something more detailed than "a reservation" to follow an audit trail.

Wyndham has to track points that are moved to future years as Deposited Points. Owners do not deposit just "a reservation".


----------



## Pietin

cayman01 said:


> Ovation is going to have a TON of new properties that Wyndham has to pay the maintenance fees for.



Wyndham can stop taking resorts back, Ovations can stop at anytime, or they could severely limit the amount of resort they accept, slow down the time period it takes to process, leaving the owner with many months of fees, instead of a month or two.   I guess what I am saying is I wouldn't expect Wyndham to allow a mass dump of properties to Ovations. 

Bottom line is it is their business, if they want to take their bat and ball home, they can, and we are just stuck milling around the field doing nothing.


----------



## Pietin

cayman01 said:


> Owner updates will be full of people talking about how bad the reservation system is. It is NOT going to be pretty if Wyndham doesn't fix this.



Why do you think they keep owners away for non-owners, it is incase the owners may have something negative to say.  We get even further segregated because we own nothing but resale, so we get the special private meetings.


----------



## CO skier

Bigrob said:


> Not necessarily. While that could be one intended purpose, there are also situations that I think you would agree are "legitimate" reasons for canceling and rebooking. For example, you may want to reduce or extend your stay by one night. With the new system, you can't risk it, so you have to "burn" the extra night, leaving an empty unit that might otherwise have gone to another owner who really needed the night you wanted to release... or you have to add 2 additional nights because you can't just add one, again with the result being wasting your points (and possible occupancy for another owner) in the process.


That is the decision the management company has to make. Do the negative impacts of the schemes outweigh the benefit of the legitimate uses?

That was the basis for the elimination of owner-to-owner transfers in the last go-round of changes.

The changes affect everyone involved, not just those taking liberties with system.

The WorldMark waitlist puts the brakes on a lot of cancel/rebook, because of the risk of losing a high demand reservation.  Does this also serve to discourage owners from cancelling reservations to trim some days?  Likely, and probably leads to some vacant nights in WorldMark.  Anyone trying to convince owners to drop the waitlist so a relatively few owners can trim their reservations would face an uphill battle.


----------



## ronparise

morrisjim said:


> The old website wasn't capable of capturing cancelled reservations whereas the new website is setup with that ability. Wyndham must have an algorithm to sort the resorts they want to keep for ExtraHolidays.com from the crap they give back to us. It's Wyndham's version of,  "let them eat cake." In reality it's skimming off the top and when they use automation they tilt the playing field to their advantage, that's the real conflict of interest.



I don't believe that that's true Wyndham could capture cancellations and did


----------



## BellaWyn

buckor said:
			
		

> "You don't work the problems out with ingredients while the plate is sitting in front of everyone."


*And yet that is exactly what they are doing with the WVO site.*

WYN is very image sensitive and that rolls all the way up the ladder.  Significant capital is spent to maket the image of pristine locations with glossy pictures, print ads, internet ads, etc all targeted to travelers and the idealic vacation experience. 

This goes beyond incompetent IT staff as the EO and EV sites have been recently updated and function with no unreasonable difficulty.  Yes, we know there is corporate SILO issues with WYN but when it comes to their public image, that's something they don't casually just leave to chance or incompetance.

*So why muck it up on the WVO side of the equation* and pass it off as the uncomfortable "Oops, we messed up" posturing?  They have the capacity to do it right when it is important.  Is this just another reflection of the disregard they have for the WVO owners?  _"We have your $$ so we don't really need to put effort into providing much more beyond the illusion of obtaining a reservation and going on holiday." _

They actually haven't even given the owners that courtesy yet except via the number of times OC, IT and VC's have to apologise to the owners that have to call in to get problems fixed or track down phantom, missing or inaccurate reservations.  (VC's should be bonused based on the number of apologies they are required to dole out with still no solution for the owner on the call because of corporate errors IMO).

Ron has segatiously pointed out a multitude of times that there is minimal additional revenue specific to the reservation itself.  MF's are already paid against the POINTS OWNED, not the actual reservation.  Doesn't matter if a warm body lands in the unit or not.  Beyond the RT fees and GC fees (insignificant compared to the MF's) the only additional motivation WYN has to put warm bodies in the rooms is to SELL MORE. 

Warm bodies can come from anywhere.  Mega-rental, owner rental, owner guests, owner reservations, EO, EV, RCI exhanges or rentals.

Which do you think will profit them the MOST from all those warm body target streams?
And, which target streams for reservations are the most user friendly and functioning accurately?


----------



## 55plus

ronparise said:


> I don't believe that that's true Wyndham could capture cancellations and did



I believe Wyndham is using an algorithm to capture the sweet reservations programmed in at 10 months to 60 day out for ExtraHolidays.com. Some probably at 13 months out at the higher demand/timeframe resorts using the points they own at the resort. If they aren't then they are idiots. Only discovery and court testimony will determine what's going on at Wyndham.


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> I think the symbolic points are the currency we use in Club Wyndham, and just like a bank, the books must balance.  Think of it as one large pool of points that are the sum of all the deeded points in the system for each Use Year.  If an owner reserved a 4 BR Presidential at Bonnet Creek, 424,000 points must be deducted from that Use Year pool.
> 
> When someone cancel/rebook/upgraded to reserve a 4 BR Presidential (424,000 points) for half the points of a 1 BR (166,000/2), the 341,000 points difference had to come from somewhere.".



I don't think the books have to balance as you suggest. Points are symbolic of ownership so the balance has to be that points in circulation are supported by the condos in the club. Not by the number of potential reservations

If I understand what you are saying, every time a 400000 point unit is reserved for 200000 points another 200000 points has to be deducted from some other  owners account  To follow your logic, I assume you would say, each time a 400000 unit sits vacant, 400000  points would have to be deducted from someone's account

I guess you are saying that these points deducted, for the sake of balance, come from wyndhams holdings. I don't think that happens, nor do I think it has to happen

What would happen in a sold out situation? If Wyndham owned no points Would we take the points from my account or yours or perhaps a certain percentage from every owners account? No that dosent happen


----------



## cayman01

Pietin said:


> Why do you think they keep owners away for non-owners, it is incase the owners may have something negative to say.  We get even further segregated because we own nothing but resale, so we get the special private meetings.



I refer you to this thread: http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/fun-at-an-update.257425/#post-2013839

The man in the original post certainly hasn't been segregated and you are going to see more and more of this if things do not get corrected in a hurry. In fact, I bet it is happening right now somewhere.


----------



## cayman01

Pietin said:


> Wyndham can stop taking resorts back, Ovations can stop at anytime, or they could severely limit the amount of resort they accept, slow down the time period it takes to process, leaving the owner with many months of fees, instead of a month or two.   I guess what I am saying is I wouldn't expect Wyndham to allow a mass dump of properties to Ovations.
> 
> Bottom line is it is their business, if they want to take their bat and ball home, they can, and we are just stuck milling around the field doing nothing.



No they can't, because one, they have to answer to their shareholders who will want to know why their holdings are in the dumps, and two, they want to stay in business. They will last awhile at first but with a software system like this they will most certainly go out of business. People are not going to put up with it. Lawsuits will drive them under.


----------



## philemer

morrisjim said:


> The old website wasn't capable of capturing cancelled reservations whereas the new website is setup with that ability. Wyndham must have an algorithm to sort the resorts they want to keep for ExtraHolidays.com from the crap they give back to us. It's Wyndham's version of,  "let them eat cake." In reality it's skimming off the top and when they use automation they tilt the playing field to their advantage, that's the real conflict of interest.



Hmmm, sounds like RCI. Rent the best & give exchangers the rest.


----------



## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> I don't think the books have to balance as you suggest. Points are symbolic of ownership so the balance has to be that points in circulation are supported by the condos in the club. Not by the number of potential reservations
> 
> If I understand what you are saying, every time a 400000 point unit is reserved for 200000 points another 200000 points has to be deducted from some other  owners account  To follow your logic, I assume you would say, each time a 400000 unit sits vacant, 400000  points would have to be deducted from someone's account
> 
> I guess you are saying that these points deducted, for the sake of balance, come from wyndhams holdings. I don't think that happens, nor do I think it has to happen
> 
> What would happen in a sold out situation? If Wyndham owned no points Would we take the points from my account or yours or perhaps a certain percentage from every owners account? No that dosent happen



Vacancy does not require anyone to balance points. But yes the total value (in points) of a reservation must be paid. In the case of a VIP discount it is balanced in the way Co_Skier suggests.

This post from some time back explains it. You believe that Wyndham is not "adding" points to account for the amount of the reservation. I'm not suggesting they are "adding" points they don't have... they are using the points they already own (unsold inventory, reacquired contracts, etc.) to cover the point differential. My point is that when those points have been allocated to cover VIP discounts, they can't also be used for extra holidays rentals, discovery program, etc. 

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...to-the-credit-pool.245449/page-2#post-1920997


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> I don't think the books have to balance as you suggest. Points are symbolic of ownership so the balance has to be that points in circulation are supported by the condos in the club. Not by the number of potential reservations
> 
> If I understand what you are saying, every time a 400000 point unit is reserved for 200000 points another 200000 points has to be deducted from some other  owners account  To follow your logic, I assume you would say, each time a 400000 unit sits vacant, 400000  points would have to be deducted from someone's account
> 
> I guess you are saying that these points deducted, for the sake of balance, come from wyndhams holdings. I don't think that happens, nor do I think it has to happen


It is easy to see on the WorldMark 4-month planning calendar units that expire unused everyday.  Who paid the maintenance fees on the credits represented by these units?  Wyndham.  So, the credits are essentially deducted from Wyndham's inventory.  What if WorldMark were a sold out system?  There would still be unused units, but no credits from Wyndham to cover the units.  What would happen is that toward the end of the year, there would literally be no units left to reserve, but there would be credits remaining in some members' accounts.  The final effect is that the credits from the unused units were involuntarily paid by the owners who waited too long; they paid their maintenance fees, but they could receive no vacation that year, because there was nothing left to reserve.  It is the same thing as the floating week systems; the owners who wait too long and there are no more units left at the end of the year, pick up the maintenance fees for the units that sat empty earlier in the year.

That is why points system developers need to control enough unsold float to ensure that they cover any unused nights and there is always a unit somewhere for an owner, with points to spend, can reserve something.




ronparise said:


> What would happen in a sold out situation? If Wyndham owned no points Would we take the points from my account or yours or perhaps a certain percentage from every owners account? No that dosent happen



Imagine a very small sold out points system that has a 60-day booking window.  The developer offers 50% discounts to Platinum VIPs beginning at 60 days.  Every owner books what is available everyday, and the VIPs get their discount.  At the end of the year, there are owners who paid their maintenance fees, but could never book a reservation.  How is this possible when every week was fully booked throughout the year?  The 50% VIP discount pulled phantom points into the system to reserve the time that other owners paid mf for, but could not reserve.

That is why the points currency accounting books need to balance deposits and withdrawals, and the developer needs to maintain enough points float to cover both the VIP discounts and any unused days, so every owner always has something to book.

VIP discounts would not be possible in a fully sold out points system.


----------



## ecwinch

CO skier said:


> It is easy to see on the WorldMark 4-month planning calendar units that expire unused everyday.  Who paid the maintenance fees on the credits represented by these units?  Wyndham.  So, the credits are essentially deducted from Wyndham's inventory.  What if WorldMark were a sold out system?  There would still be unused units, but no credits from Wyndham to cover the units.  What would happen is that toward the end of the year, there would literally be no units left to reserve, but there would be credits remaining in some members' accounts.  The final effect is that the credits from the unused units were involuntarily paid by the owners who waited too long; they paid their maintenance fees, but they could receive no vacation that year, because there was nothing left to reserve.  It is the same thing as the floating week systems; the owners who wait too long and there are no more units left at the end of the year, pick up the maintenance fees for the units that sat empty earlier in the year.
> 
> That is why points system developers need to control enough unsold float to ensure that they cover any unused nights and there is always a unit somewhere for an owner, with points to spend, can reserve something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine a very small sold out points system that has a 60-day booking window.  The developer offers 50% discounts to Platinum VIPs beginning at 60 days.  Every owner books what is available everyday, and the VIPs get their discount.  At the end of the year, there are owners who paid their maintenance fees, but could never book a reservation.  How is this possible when every week was fully booked throughout the year?  The 50% VIP discount pulled phantom points into the system to reserve the time that other owners paid mf for, but could not reserve.
> 
> That is why the points currency accounting books need to balance deposits and withdrawals, and the developer needs to maintain enough points float to cover both the VIP discounts and any unused days, so every owner always has something to book.
> 
> VIP discounts would not be possible in a fully sold out points system.



Your economic model of how a pts based system has to operate is flawed IMHO. No adjustment is made to anyone's pt balance takes place when inventory goes unused. Nor is there a requirement that the system is in balance on a transactional basis, i.e. all the unused credits in accts has to equal available inventory.  You are correct that Wyndham provides the "float" in both WM and CWP, in the same fashion as the % of credits/pts will truly expire.  

Because there are no "books" that have to balance. On the WM side that is not something the auditor reviews. Probably the same with CWP.


----------



## comicbookman

CO skier said:


> It is easy to see on the WorldMark 4-month planning calendar units that expire unused everyday.  Who paid the maintenance fees on the credits represented by these units?  Wyndham.  So, the credits are essentially deducted from Wyndham's inventory.  What if WorldMark were a sold out system?  There would still be unused units, but no credits from Wyndham to cover the units.  What would happen is that toward the end of the year, there would literally be no units left to reserve, but there would be credits remaining in some members' accounts.  The final effect is that the credits from the unused units were involuntarily paid by the owners who waited too long; they paid their maintenance fees, but they could receive no vacation that year, because there was nothing left to reserve.  It is the same thing as the floating week systems; the owners who wait too long and there are no more units left at the end of the year, pick up the maintenance fees for the units that sat empty earlier in the year.
> 
> That is why points system developers need to control enough unsold float to ensure that they cover any unused nights and there is always a unit somewhere for an owner, with points to spend, can reserve something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine a very small sold out points system that has a 60-day booking window.  The developer offers 50% discounts to Platinum VIPs beginning at 60 days.  Every owner books what is available everyday, and the VIPs get their discount.  At the end of the year, there are owners who paid their maintenance fees, but could never book a reservation.  How is this possible when every week was fully booked throughout the year?  The 50% VIP discount pulled phantom points into the system to reserve the time that other owners paid mf for, but could not reserve.
> 
> That is why the points currency accounting books need to balance deposits and withdrawals, and the developer needs to maintain enough points float to cover both the VIP discounts and any unused days, so every owner always has something to book.
> 
> VIP discounts would not be possible in a fully sold out points system.



Actually, I would bet that the systems are designed to assume a certain number of points will go unused every year.  In a large system it is a safe assumption.  Wyndham has the data to see how many points go unused, on average, every year.  Wyndham only needs to make up the cost of points used by VIP's that exceeds that number.  I would expect, also that a large chunk of those unused points are owned by Wyndham, so in that case they would pay either way.  The savings to them of fewer VIP discounts being used is probably not as large as the cost of image damage control that the website debacle is likely to generate if it goes on to long.


----------



## comicbookman

CO skier said:


> It is easy to see on the WorldMark 4-month planning calendar units that expire unused everyday.  Who paid the maintenance fees on the credits represented by these units?  Wyndham.  So, the credits are essentially deducted from Wyndham's inventory.  What if WorldMark were a sold out system?  There would still be unused units, but no credits from Wyndham to cover the units.  What would happen is that toward the end of the year, there would literally be no units left to reserve, but there would be credits remaining in some members' accounts.  The final effect is that the credits from the unused units were involuntarily paid by the owners who waited too long; they paid their maintenance fees, but they could receive no vacation that year, because there was nothing left to reserve.  It is the same thing as the floating week systems; the owners who wait too long and there are no more units left at the end of the year, pick up the maintenance fees for the units that sat empty earlier in the year.
> 
> That is why points system developers need to control enough unsold float to ensure that they cover any unused nights and there is always a unit somewhere for an owner, with points to spend, can reserve something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine a very small sold out points system that has a 60-day booking window.  The developer offers 50% discounts to Platinum VIPs beginning at 60 days.  Every owner books what is available everyday, and the VIPs get their discount.  At the end of the year, there are owners who paid their maintenance fees, but could never book a reservation.  How is this possible when every week was fully booked throughout the year?  The 50% VIP discount pulled phantom points into the system to reserve the time that other owners paid mf for, but could not reserve.
> 
> That is why the points currency accounting books need to balance deposits and withdrawals, and the developer needs to maintain enough points float to cover both the VIP discounts and any unused days, so every owner always has something to book.
> 
> VIP discounts would not be possible in a fully sold out points system.



Actually, I would bet that the systems are designed to assume a certain number of points will go unused every year.  In a large system it is a safe assumption.  Wyndham has the data to see how many points go unused, on average, every year.  Wyndham only needs to make up the cost of points used by VIP's that exceeds that number.  I would expect, also that a large chunk of those unused points are owned by Wyndham, so in that case they would pay either way.  The savings to them of fewer VIP discounts being used is probably not as large as the cost of image damage control that the website debacle is likely to generate if it goes on to long.


----------



## CO skier

ecwinch said:


> Your economic model of how a pts based system has to operate is flawed IMHO. No adjustment is made to anyone's pt balance takes place when inventory goes unused. Nor is there a requirement that the system is in balance on a transactional basis, i.e. all the unused credits in accts has to equal available inventory.  You are correct that Wyndham provides the "float" in both WM and CWP, in the same fashion as the % of credits/pts will truly expire.
> 
> Because there are no "books" that have to balance. On the WM side that is not something the auditor reviews. Probably the same with CWP.


It is an accounting analogy to present the concept of how a points system needs to remain balanced, and why it would be a concern if random points are just added to the system.

I do not know how Wyndham accounts for balancing Club Wyndham or WorldMark.  It is a certainty, though, that someone is paying the maintenance fees for every WorldMark credit of each unit that expires unused.  Some of the mf are paid by owners who do not use their credits before they expire; other credits are maintenance fees paid by Wyndham for the developer owned stock of unsold or reacquired credits that expire before use.


----------



## ronparise

comicbookman said:


> Actually, I would bet that the systems are designed to assume a certain number of points will go unused every year.  In a large system it is a safe assumption.  Wyndham has the data to see how many points go unused, on average, every year.  Wyndham only needs to make up the cost of points used by VIP's that exceeds that number.  I would expect, also that a large chunk of those unused points are owned by Wyndham, so in that case they would pay either way.  The savings to them of fewer VIP discounts being used is probably not as large as the cost of image damage control that the website debacle is likely to generate if it goes on to long.



That's what's described in another post as the float and I would argue that as long as if when  an owner goes to make a reservation, something is available, the float's big enough

But I've been arguing that wyndham is an honorable and ethical company that would never screw us members so perhaps co skier knows what he's talking about and for every discounted reservation Wyndham sets points aside to expire unused


----------



## ecwinch

But it is all "funny money" from a macro perspective. As Ron pointed out earlier, only the amount of points/credits that are "issued" needs to balance. Just like the US dollar, on a usage/consumption basis it does not matter. It would only matter if all the pts/currency in circulation were used/redeemed at the same time. Then the whole thing falls apart.


----------



## ronparise

CO skier said:


> It is an accounting analogy to present the concept of how a points system needs to remain balanced, and why it would be a concern if random points are just added to the system.
> 
> I do not know how Wyndham accounts for balancing Club Wyndham or WorldMark.  It is a certainty, though, that someone is paying the maintenance fees for every WorldMark credit of each unit that expires unused.  Some of the mf are paid by owners who do not use their credits before they expire; other credits are maintenance fees paid by Wyndham for the developer owned stock of unsold or reacquired credits that expire before use.



That's been my only point.

 As long as the fees are paid that's the only accounting that's necessary


----------



## Pathways

As long as Wyndham doesn't sell more points than there are are in a year in all the resorts added together, they are OK.  That part is easy, and easy to prove.

The issue was the credit pool.  What started as a benefit that was used sparingly by a few users with a small amount of leftover points, became a huge and unwieldy mess that a team of auditors couldn't make sense of. There was no way to prove they were meeting the legal requirements by having enough rooms available for all the points that were outstanding. Anecdotally they 'knew' it would work out because of the historical level of unused points, but there was no way they could prove it and pass a legal test.



ecwinch said:


> It would only matter if all the pts/currency in circulation were used/redeemed at the same time. Then the whole thing falls apart.



Legally, they have to show this - and I think the whole thing just got away from them. Too many pooled points, cancelled points, cancel/re-book points. The computer system started putting things in the wrong place, but they couldn't figure out what was what when the points in those problem accounts were changing from day to day, and hour to hour.  It was a moving target. Therefore, they just stated locking accounts until they could 'figure' it out


----------



## Pathways

Wyndham's mess reminds me of the SWA Companion pass.  What started as a neat benefit for loyal customers, through loopholes and avid social media users became a program where over 60% of the CP holders were just transferring in points in January and getting free flights for the next two years. Most of these flyers weren't even loyal SWA customers except for their 2 for 1 flights

A SWA employee told me beginning in Jan 2019 they expect their free flight outlay to be reduced by over 50%


----------



## ecwinch

Pathways - What do you point to support that they "legally" need to do any of the things you suggest. Legally they need to file a public offering statement to create the timeshare - which outlines the units and points they will be offering for sale. Beyond that?


----------



## raygo123

ronparise said:


> That's what's described in another post as the float and I would argue that as long as if what an owner goes to make a reservation, something is available, the floats big enough
> 
> But I've been arguing that wyndham is an honorable and ethical company that would never screw us members so perhaps co skier knows what he's talking about and for every discounted reservation Wyndham sets points aside to expire unused


Setting aside points to go unused.   What ever Wyndham does to cover it, what if one way is to, based on averages determined that the best thing to do is to turn over Wyndham's inventory, as needed to cover the float, not when its sold?  The average cost of MFs would increase.  As owners the more benefit are used the more all pay, under this scenario.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pathways

ecwinch said:


> Pathways - What do you point to support that they "legally" need to do any of the things you suggest. Legally they need to file a public offering statement to create the timeshare - which outlines the units and points they will be offering for sale. Beyond that?



I'm playing fast and loose with that term. "Legally" as when other entities have been in court actions or had class action suits filed against them, this seems to be the issue that bubbled to the top.  Pl: We paid - you didn't have availability.   Def: Yes we did, you didn't utilize it in a timely manner


----------



## ronparise

Pathways said:


> As long as Wyndham doesn't sell more points than there are are in a year in all the resorts added together, they are OK.  That part is easy, and easy to prove.
> 
> The issue was the credit pool.  What started as a benefit that was used sparingly by a few users with a small amount of leftover points, became a huge and unwieldy mess that a team of auditors couldn't make sense of. There was no way to prove they were meeting the legal requirements by having enough rooms available for all the points that were outstanding. Anecdotally they 'knew' it would work out because of the historical level of unused points, but there was no way they could prove it and pass a legal test.
> 
> 
> 
> Legally, they have to show this - and I think the whole thing just got away from them. Too many pooled points, cancelled points, cancel/re-book points. The computer system started putting things in the wrong place, but they couldn't figure out what was what when the points in those problem accounts were changing from day to day, and hour to hour.  It was a moving target. Therefore, they just stated locking accounts until they could 'figure' it out




The credit pool shouldn't have been a problem.  If I deposited 2019 points and then went to make a reservation in 2018, there had to have been 2018 points in there for me to use. It was possible that the pool was empty of the 2018 points and I wouldnt have been able to make my reservation

The way I used the pool was a potential problem. I pooled every point as soon as I could. and then made reservations with all those points.  If I had walked away as soon as the last reservation checked out I could have enjoyed 3 years worth of reservations but only paid a years maintenance fees


----------



## Pathways

ronparise said:


> The way I used the pool was a potential problem.



That was kind of my point. I think their IT system didn't know how to handle some of the activity. (as many of you reported points in the wrong places) .  I think they got very nervous when they realized things were out of balance/or they couldn't easily track it, and they just shut down different accounts until they could figure it out.  (Still to come?)

Maybe with the new credit pool rules, they figure after it all shakes out in three years, they will be back on track


----------



## ronparise

Pathways said:


> That was kind of my point. I think their IT system didn't know how to handle some of the activity. (as many of you reported points in the wrong places) .  I think they got very nervous when they realized things were out of balance/or they couldn't easily track it, and they just shut down different accounts until they could figure it out.  (Still to come?)
> 
> Maybe with the new credit pool rules, they figure after it all shakes out in three years, they will be back on track


But they weren't out of balance until or unless I defaulted


----------



## buckor

Pathways said:


> That was kind of my point. I think their IT system didn't know how to handle some of the activity. (as many of you reported points in the wrong places) .  I think they got very nervous when they realized things were out of balance/or they couldn't easily track it, and they just shut down different accounts until they could figure it out.  (Still to come?)
> 
> Maybe with the new credit pool rules, they figure after it all shakes out in three years, they will be back on track


I think that's what Ron is getting at...he may have deposited his points asap and then "sold" the contract causing his account to look "odd," however, the MFs were still being paid by the new owner. Unless the new owner defaulted on the MFs in those 3 years the MFs paid still matched the points on deposit.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## cayman01

Wouldn't the combination of excessive credit pooling , VIP discounts and double and triple cancelled point credits be enough to knock the trust out of balance? I can see a situation where you have billions of extra points in the system that wipe out the float that supposedly keeps everything balanced.


----------



## time4share

cayman01 said:


> Wouldn't the combination of excessive credit pooling , VIP discounts and double and triple cancelled point credits be enough to knock the trust out of balance? I can see a situation where you have billions of extra points in the system that wipe out the float that supposedly keeps everything balanced.



Yep!!!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

time4share said:


> Yep!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Why fix it ? If it ain't broke!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

cayman01 said:


> Wouldn't the combination of excessive credit pooling , VIP discounts and double and triple cancelled point credits be enough to knock the trust out of balance? I can see a situation where you have billions of extra points in the system that wipe out the float that supposedly keeps everything balanced.


 
 discounts and upgrades and credit pooling dont  "create" any points..


----------



## ronparise

buckor said:


> I think that's what Ron is getting at...he may have deposited his points asap and then "sold" the contract causing his account to look "odd," however, the MFs were still being paid by the new owner. Unless the new owner defaulted on the MFs in those 3 years the MFs paid still matched the points on deposit.
> 
> This could conceivably still be done with the new credit "forward" pool...we just have less flexibility to use those points now.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk




If I could  get 3 years points for less than a years mf, id be back in business  I dont see how.


----------



## cayman01

ronparise said:


> discounts and upgrades and credit pooling dont  "create" any points..



I wasn't talking about the creation of points other than cancelled points that are refunded. We KNOW that happened. What I am saying is when you add that to all the points that come into a use year from credit pooling, and all the points that come back into the use year via VIP discounts and upgrades it wipes out the float and you have more points in the system than available reservations. The trust is out of balance and I think that is what led to the suspensions. You didn't get suspended for doing anything wrong ( although they tried to accuse you and others of that). You ( when I say "you" I mean the suspended owners as a whole)got suspended because if you kept going the way you were the whole system would collapse. Too many people would be credit pooling which would lead to more discounts and possibly upgrades and of course those dirty double refund cancellation points. That's my theory.


----------



## buckor

ronparise said:


> If I could  get 3 years points for less than a years mf, id be back in business  I dont see how.


I stand corrected...you are right....with the new credit forward pool you can only use points in the future you have paid for in the past. Sorry, I slipped there!

I edited my original post so that statement is not included.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan M.

cayman01 said:


> Wouldn't the combination of excessive credit pooling , VIP discounts and double and triple cancelled point credits be enough to knock the trust out of balance? I can see a situation where you have billions of extra points in the system that wipe out the float that supposedly keeps everything balanced.



Ron has several times alluded to there being something more that he knows or suspects from his discussions with Wyndham. Credit pooling, the discounts, cancelled reservations have been going on for years within a margin of error so something else brought the situation to a crisis level. Something involving enough points to raise red flags, billions of points. Wyndham wouldn't have frozen so many owners accounts and gone on what seemed like a witch hunt unless it was a very serious problem. And it became very clear that they learned more in the process.

I believe that Wyndham felt it was absolutely necessary to include too many changes to solve problems that HAD to be handled which is making the system have a lot of issues. I also believe that they made the hard decision to get this new system in place without further delay even though it wasn't optimal for many reasons, some of which we will never know. Because we don't like the changes or the new system it would be very easy to just think of Wyndham as the big bad money making machine out to increase their revenues at our expense, particularly the VIP owners, and that Wyndham upper management made very bad decisions. There were very serious problems that required changes so hard decisions to be made and I don't think they were made lightly. Unless someone at the top in Wyndham writes a tell all book we will likely never know the whole story.


----------



## ronparise

cayman01 said:


> I wasn't talking about the creation of points other than cancelled points that are refunded. We KNOW that happened. What I am saying is when you add that to all the points that come into a use year from credit pooling, and all the points that come back into the use year via VIP discounts and upgrades it wipes out the float and you have more points in the system than available reservations. The trust is out of balance and I think that is what led to the suspensions. You didn't get suspended for doing anything wrong ( although they tried to accuse you and others of that). You ( when I say "you" I mean the suspended owners as a whole)got suspended because if you kept going the way you were the whole system would collapse. Too many people would be credit pooling which would lead to more discounts and possibly upgrades and of course those dirty double refund cancellation points. That's my theory.



This may be a chicken and egg thing. 

Did Wyndham come for us because the integrity of the trust was at risk. 

Or did Wyndham learn  that the trust was in danger after talking with us



I don't believe that they had any idea of what they would ultimately end up with. They knew I had too many points but they seemed to have no idea how it happened. Their first assumption was that I had a partner on the inside. 

I don't think they had any idea what was going on or that the trust was or could be in danger until they talked to us.


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:
			
		

> I don't think they had any idea what was going on or that the trust was or could be in danger until they talked to us.


Fooey!  They may not have known HOW it occurred but a red flag went up somewhere that triggered enough fear to motivate them to LOCK owner accounts, not for a few days but months, some still not fully "released" to date.

You spin it as though it was a minor " oops, look what we found" and once in the process of discovery it became an "Uh Oh! We don't like what we're hearing" because they somehow "tripped" over the overages and shortages in the cash drawer.  While there may be some thread of truth woven throughout the story (kinda like WYN sales does)  the dots don't fully connect.  *You don't slam shut the cash drawer and lock it because you think everything is hunky dory.  You do it because you fear what's in the drawer** IS AT RISK*.  They may not know exactly why it's at risk or who all the players are that put it at risk, but they lock it to "keep it safe until we can figure it out."

In the meantime locked out owners are saying "wait, why do I have to keep paying to not use what's in the drawer, because, OBTW, that's why I am required to pay in the first place, until you can get around to do a recount and figure out why there are imbalances in the first place.  *You [WYN] have been the only one in charge of the drawer!!  Why hasn't it been getting counted and reconciled regularly?" *

* Essentially, WYN got caught short-cutting their responsibility as Manager of the Assets. *Adequate resources were not employed to maintain an accurate accounting.  You were able to explain your overages and how they were derived but at that point you are talking to the forensic accountant vs the backroom-room clerk posting the numbers.

Forensics says "Mmm... the intent was not to make those numbers dance quite like that, yeah we don't like it because if everyone did that then we would be in big trouble!"  But they are still wanting to point the finger at the owners and in no way will admit to the mismanagement of the assets on their part.

It's still the owners taking the hit for the results because now they don't just think the trust is as risk, they KNOW it.


----------



## cayman01

BellaWyn said:


> Fooey!  They may not have known HOW it occurred but a red flag went up somewhere that triggered enough fear to motivate them to LOCK owner accounts, not for a few days but months, some still not fully "released" to date.
> 
> You spin it as though it was a minor " oops, look what we found" and once in the process of discovery it became an "Uh Oh! We don't like what we're hearing" because they somehow "tripped" over the overages and shortages in the cash drawer.  While there may be some thread of truth woven throughout the story (kinda like WYN sales does)  the dots don't fully connect.  You don't slam shut the cash drawer and lock it because you think everything is hunky dory.  You do it because you fear what's in the drawer * is at RISK*.  They may not know exactly why it's at risk or who all the players are that put it at risk, but they lock it to "keep it safe until we can figure it out."
> 
> In the meantime locked out owners are saying "wait, why do I have to keep paying to not use what's in the drawer, because OBTW that's why I am required to pay in the first place, until you can get around to do a recount and figure out why there are imbalances in the first place.  *You [WYN] have been the only one in charge of the drawer!!  Why hasn't it been getting counted and reconciled regularly?" *
> 
> * Essentially, WYN got caught short-cutting their responsibility as Manager of the Assets. *Adequate resources were not employed to maintain an accurate accounting.  You were able to explain your overages and how they were derived but at that point you are talking to the forensic accountant vs the backroom-room clerk posting the numbers.
> 
> Forensics says "Mmm... the intent was not to make those numbers dance quite like that, yeah we don't like it because if everyone did that then we would be in big trouble!"  But they are still wanting to point the finger at the owners and in no way will admit to the mismanagement of the assets on their part.
> 
> It's still the owners taking the hit for the results because now they don't just think the trust is as risk, they KNOW it.



 Okay, let's recreate the crime as it were, because as I think about it things are becoming much clearer. I think Both you and Ron are right. So, let's start at the beginning. Your red flag. 

 I remember reading a post back when this all got started of somebody who was talking to Wyndham and the guy at Wyndham saw he had 6 million points of reservations in a one million point VIP account. I believe that was the red flag that started this all. Wyndham couldn't figure out how he had so any points and the owner wasn't too sure either. He/she had credit pooled, used his discounts, etc, but didn't realize how many he actually had because there was no points history.

 So Wyndham freezes his account to do an audit and discovers the cancelled points fiasco. They think the owner is gaming the system. Owner has no idea what they are talking about. Wyndham realizes they have a problem.

 They decide to see how big the problem is. Who else has too many points? They find all the big Megarenters do . Plus a lot of owners who do not hardly rent  if they rent at all. They realize now they have a big problem. Everybody gets their account frozen. In come the forensic accountants. And at this point I think Wyndham thinks that people have found a way to create points in their account. And to a point I think they are right as there is one person on this board who alluded to it. I'm not naming names as they have had enough trouble as it is. It is not Ron.

 They start talking to owners and finally get to Ron who opens their eyes to what is gong on with credit pooling, cancel/rebook, etc. All within the rules. When they ask about extra points Ron, as well as everybody else, has no idea. They were doing so many rentals they weren't keeping track of that. 

 What to do? 

 Time to fast track Voyager. They couldn't fix the old system for some unknown reason. So they rushed Voyager into place. They changed the credit pooling, cancel/rebook and added a points history so each account can be tracked. The thing is is that Voyager wasn't ready. They knew it but put it into place anyway. Why? I think because they were dangerously close to being in deep trouble with the trust. The suspended accounts could have been released long ago, but Wyndham didn't want the players to go back to their old tricks until the problems were fixed. It would/might put them over the edge as far as the trust balancing goes.

 So here is where we are at. Wyndham has a poor system in place, but it was better than the alternative. They are working to fix it. They need to work much harder. We owners are stuck with it for now. This theory does explain why we have what we have. Wyndham couldn't keep people locked out forever. And they couldn't continue using the old system cause they couldn't figure out how to fix the extra points problem. Why that is I don't know. Maybe it's akin to changing a seal on an engine- you have to take the whole thing apart to get to that one seal. And you can't shut down a reservation system for a couple of weeks. Those of you in IT can better explain that part for me. I am not a software/hardware guy.

 The new rules and features not only level the playing field a bit, but they are designed to keep the trust in balance. The real reason for all the changes and Voyager. I think we were very close to e meltdown.


----------



## BellaWyn

Think this is a well laid out scenario and extremely plausible.  Two things to point out however:

1) Still no admission on WYN's part of the mismanagment of the assets that created the domino game in the first place.

2) Not all of the locked out owners were privileged with an audience and getting WYN's ear to have "discussion."  Some are still waiting and are still not fully restored.  Why is that?  Voyager is now in place, such as it is.

Am not resisting the changes that have come with Voyager as much as just not buying into suggestions that WYN was totally clueless in the process.  Change is a way of life and will play out to become the norm.  If, in fact, they were that clueless, again, speaks to short-cutting quality accounting practices which require reconciliation of accounts on a regular basis.  That is mismanagement of assets and, albeit perhap unintented, putting the trust at risk.


----------



## raygo123

ronparise said:


> discounts and upgrades and credit pooling dont  "create" any points..


And don't pay the maintenance fees either.  Look at the cost of running the place.  That takes money not points.  I don't understand how if you are making 2 to 4 reservations from one set of points, where is the money, not points, to pay for those reservations?  Wyndham doesn't care about points, they care about money.  By Wyndham setting as side points, they see it as setting aside money.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1

cayman01 said:


> Okay, let's recreate the crime as it were, because as I think about it things are becoming much clearer. I think Both you and Ron are right. So, let's start at the beginning. Your red flag.
> 
> I remember reading a post back when this all got started of somebody who was talking to Wyndham and the guy at Wyndham saw he had 6 million points of reservations in a one million point VIP account. I believe that was the red flag that started this all. Wyndham couldn't figure out how he had so any points and the owner wasn't too sure either. He/she had credit pooled, used his discounts, etc, but didn't realize how many he actually had because there was no points history.
> 
> So Wyndham freezes his account to do an audit and discovers the cancelled points fiasco. They think the owner is gaming the system. Owner has no idea what they are talking about. Wyndham realizes they have a problem.
> 
> They decide to see how big the problem is. Who else has too many points? They find all the big Megarenters do . Plus a lot of owners who do not hardly rent  if they rent at all. They realize now they have a big problem. Everybody gets their account frozen. In come the forensic accountants. And at this point I think Wyndham thinks that people have found a way to create points in their account. And to a point I think they are right as there is one person on this board who alluded to it. I'm not naming names as they have had enough trouble as it is. It is not Ron.
> 
> They start talking to owners and finally get to Ron who opens their eyes to what is gong on with credit pooling, cancel/rebook, etc. All within the rules. When they ask about extra points Ron, as well as everybody else, has no idea. They were doing so many rentals they weren't keeping track of that.
> 
> What to do?
> 
> Time to fast track Voyager. They couldn't fix the old system for some unknown reason. So they rushed Voyager into place. They changed the credit pooling, cancel/rebook and added a points history so each account can be tracked. The thing is is that Voyager wasn't ready. They knew it but put it into place anyway. Why? I think because they were dangerously close to being in deep trouble with the trust. The suspended accounts could have been released long ago, but Wyndham didn't want the players to go back to their old tricks until the problems were fixed. It would/might put them over the edge as far as the trust balancing goes.
> 
> So here is where we are at. Wyndham has a poor system in place, but it was better than the alternative. They are working to fix it. They need to work much harder. We owners are stuck with it for now. This theory does explain why we have what we have. Wyndham couldn't keep people locked out forever. And they couldn't continue using the old system cause they couldn't figure out how to fix the extra points problem. Why that is I don't know. Maybe it's akin to changing a seal on an engine- you have to take the whole thing apart to get to that one seal. And you can't shut down a reservation system for a couple of weeks. Those of you in IT can better explain that part for me. I am not a software/hardware guy.
> 
> The new rules and features not only level the playing field a bit, but they are designed to keep the trust in balance. The real reason for all the changes and Voyager. I think we were very close to e meltdown.


As a minor add-on to the above extremely perceptive posts:  when I called in a couple of weeks ago because I couldn't login  (to confirm my current reservations we're still accurate,) the OC told me that no one was harmed by not being able to login because they could still call in.  This after I had just waited an hour and a half to get through to them.


----------



## BellaWyn

dagger1 said:


> As a minor add-on to the above extremely perceptive posts:  when I called in a couple of weeks ago because I couldn't login  (to confirm my current reservations we're still accurate,) the OC told me that no one was harmed by not being able to login because they could still call in.  This after I had just waited an hour and a half to get through to them.


Because an hour and a half of your time is of no consequence -- to them.

I once had a doctor make me wait an hour and half for a prescheduled appointment.  There was no emergency, only overbooking, which was part of their adminstrative policy (to make up for no-shows).  The consult and exam itself took 15 minutes.  They sent me a bill and I sent it back with a my own billing attached for the billable hours for the wait time at my current billable rate which was more than twice the amount of the doctor bill.  Thus netting to monies they owed ME for the wait.

Never received a followup or collection.  But then, they never paid me the balance due either.


----------



## cayman01

BellaWyn said:


> Think this is a well laid out scenario and extremely plausible.  Two things to point out however:
> 
> 1) Still no admission on WYN's part of the mismanagment of the assets that created the domino game in the first place.
> 
> 2) Not all of the locked out owners were privileged with an audience and getting WYN's ear to have "discussion."  Some are still waiting and are still not fully restored.  Why is that?  Voyager is now in place, such as it is.
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> As to number 1 Wyndham is not going to admit to anything they did wrong.
> 
> As to number 2 I could not speak to that. I don't know nor do I have a theory. I would think everybody was released by now or is Wyndham still thinking they did wrong?


----------



## BellaWyn

cayman01 said:
			
		

> As to number 1 Wyndham is not going to admit to anything they did wrong.
> 
> As to number 2 I could not speak to that. I don't know nor do I have a theory. I would think everybody was released by now or is Wyndham still thinking they did wrong?


1) Of course they won't but WYN plays fast and loose with "guilty until proven innocent" when coming at the owners, with no reverse accountability.

2) Do we really have any idea what WYN is thinking at this jucture?  For those still unreleased, WYN is still not communicating.  Again, however, guilty, if presumed, has yet to receive opportunity or discussion to present information or share understanding of what, specifically WYN thinks they are guilty of in the first place.


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> Fooey!  They may not have known HOW it occurred but a red flag went up somewhere that triggered enough fear to motivate them to LOCK owner accounts, not for a few days but months, some still not fully "released" to date.
> 
> You spin it as though it was a minor " oops, look what we found" and once in the process of discovery it became an "Uh Oh! We don't like what we're hearing" because they somehow "tripped" over the overages and shortages in the cash drawer.  While there may be some thread of truth woven throughout the story (kinda like WYN sales does)  the dots don't fully connect.  You don't slam shut the cash drawer and lock it because you think everything is hunky dory.  You do it because you fear what's in the drawer * is at RISK*.  They may not know exactly why it's at risk or who all the players are that put it at risk, but they lock it to "keep it safe until we can figure it out."
> 
> In the meantime locked out owners are saying "wait, why do I have to keep paying to not use what's in the drawer, because OBTW that's why I am required to pay in the first place, until you can get around to do a recount and figure out why there are imbalances in the first place.  *You [WYN] have been the only one in charge of the drawer!!  Why hasn't it been getting counted and reconciled regularly?" *
> 
> * Essentially, WYN got caught short-cutting their responsibility as Manager of the Assets. *Adequate resources were not employed to maintain an accurate accounting.  You were able to explain your overages and how they were derived but at that point you are talking to the forensic accountant vs the backroom-room clerk posting the numbers.
> 
> Forensics says "Mmm... the intent was not to make those numbers dance quite like that, yeah we don't like it because if everyone did that then we would be in big trouble!"  But they are still wanting to point the finger at the owners and in no way will admit to the mismanagement of the assets on their part.
> 
> It's still the owners taking the hit for the results because now they don't just think the trust is as risk, they KNOW it.



No spin, Im just trying to tell my story and my conclusions as completely as I can. But there is a big piece Im holding back. so I understand how you can read me wrong.
I dont have the whole story either but I do have more information than you do so Im going to believe that my conclusions are closer to the truth than yours, but of course I could be way off base too

First of all I start from a position believing that Wyndham  and the owners have a common interest. They want to make money providing excellent vacation experiences, and the owners want to make memories enjoying excellent vacation experiences

I dont believe that the trust is in danger, but I do believe that at least in Wyndhams eyes some of us owners got more out of the trust than others, and we got more at the expense of others. So rather than saying the trust is in danger, Id say the trust hasnt been  fair. And what Wyndham is trying to do  with the new rules (and what they did with the suspensions) is to "level the playing field"


----------



## ronparise

raygo123 said:


> And don't pay the maintenance fees either.  Look at the cost of running the place.  That takes money not points.  I don't understand how if you are making 2 to 4 reservations from one set of points, where is the money, not points, to pay for those reservations?  Wyndham doesn't care about points, they care about money.  By Wyndham setting as side points, they see it as setting aside money.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



understand; we dont pay money for reservations and it doesn't matter whether a resort sits vacant or is always completely full. The money part is taken care of  ahead of the reservation.  As long as everyone pays their maintenance fees, the resorts are ok


----------



## ronparise

cayman01 said:


> Okay, let's recreate the crime as it were, because as I think about it things are becoming much clearer. I think Both you and Ron are right. So, let's start at the beginning. Your red flag.
> 
> I remember reading a post back when this all got started of somebody who was talking to Wyndham and the guy at Wyndham saw he had 6 million points of reservations in a one million point VIP account. I believe that was the red flag that started this all. Wyndham couldn't figure out how he had so any points and the owner wasn't too sure either. He/she had credit pooled, used his discounts, etc, but didn't realize how many he actually had because there was no points history.



I know the guy (not me)
your numbers are off  (way too low) but you are right on with the concept


----------



## time4share

ronparise said:


> I know the guy (not me)
> your numbers are off  (way too low) but you are right on with the concept



The real question is. Why fix it if it ain't broke. It is to steel our data. For sales. Plain and simple. The program will not run unless you enable you privacy settings to allow them to see all of your data. I design software and I know. You all are not getting it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

time4share said:


> The real question is. Why fix it if it ain't broke. It is to steel our data. For sales. Plain and simple. The program will not run unless you enable you privacy settings to allow them to see all of your data. I design software and I know. You all are not getting it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The original topic should be changed to. Wyndham is stealing our data !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> I dont have the whole story either but I do have more information than you do so Im going to believe that my conclusions are closer to the truth than yours, but of course I could be way off base too.


*That's a ChaChaCha statement.*

You know more but cannot say what it is, ergo we must believe that your conculsions are always more accurate with a CYA thrown in JIC because you could be wrong but you don't think you are, with a smattering of sincerety just for good measure,  and therefore we all must fully embrace the information because of your extensive experience (not questioning that) but you still can't say what the big piece is and yet, it's an important piece, important enough for you to have to keep quiet about it and because of that it means you are the MOST believable person in the room.  * Sweetie, how does this not come off as SPIN?*.  That statement is just chasing it's own tail at best.  (apologies for the run-on sentence everyone)



			
				ronparise said:
			
		

> I dont believe that the trust is in danger, but I do believe that at least in Wyndhams eyes some of us owners got more out of the trust than others, and *we got more at the expense of others. *So rather than saying the trust is in danger, Id say the trust hasnt been  fair. And what Wyndham is trying to do  with the new rules (and what they did with the suspensions) is to "level the playing field"


And, once again, this is a statement that supports that WYNs actions are a result of the * FEW* so that now the bulk of the ownership must shoulder the weight of the fallout. 

Am not saying the changes were not warranted or that the playing field did not need to be leveled.  Am saying it could have been done less abruptly, thus creating less disruption for the rest of the owners.  It could have been finessed in a way that feels more seemless.  And yet, that's not what has happened.  Accounts have been hijacked, strong arm tactics employed and owners and WYN staff are scrambling trying to figure out how to right the ship.  The dominos have NOT fallen gracefully. A bomb got dropped and we are scooping up bodies and debris and still looking for MIAs.


----------



## raygo123

ronparise said:


> understand; we dont pay money for reservations and it doesn't matter whether a resort sits vacant or is always completely full. The money part is taken care of  ahead of the reservation.  As long as everyone pays their maintenance fees, the resorts are ok


Correct, and who is left paying, with their points and MFs?  Wyndham, defaults, and left over points not used.  I here is a tipping point where Wyndham pays more than what's allocated to the program, the budget, money.  IMHO, that's what trggered this mess.  Wyndham exceeded their budget for the program, and it became large enough to become highly visible.  It wasn't about points, its about money.

That's why the guy in charged got fired, and the suspensions.  Your extra points cost them more than budgeted to spend.  And all the do gooders on this site dd not help teaching owners how to game the system, sales did not help teaching owners how to game the system, and the VCs did not help by helping owners game the system.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## raygo123

time4share said:


> The original topic should be changed to. Wyndham is stealing our data !
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree.  Wyndham wants all the info on your renters, so they know who is in the room(see verbiage under "points history").
What are the chances they will solicited you customers?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

raygo123 said:


> I agree.  Wyndham wants all the info on your renters, so they know who is in the room(see verbiage under "points history").
> What are the chances they will solicited you customers?
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



NO! It's not about renters data. It's about our data. Personal data. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raygo123

time4share said:


> NO! It's not about renters data. It's about our data. Personal data.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As I said earlier, that horse has left the barn the first time I said yes.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

raygo123 said:


> As I said earlier, that horse has left the barn the first time I said yes.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



If you want to get people really up in in arms. Telling them the truth about their data being stollen. Then they may unite to really do so thing. But. I'm serious about the data mining for our information in our computers. Wyndham sales division want more inside info on us before the presentation in order to find a dominating buying motive. I work with these guys in this industry and they are like snakes. Just saying 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## paxsarah

time4share said:


> If you want to get people really up in in arms. Telling them the truth about their data being stollen. Then they may unite to really do so thing. But. I'm serious about the data mining for our information in our computers. Wyndham sales division want more inside info on us before the presentation in order to find a dominating buying motive. I work with these guys in this industry and they are like snakes. Just saying



Are you suggesting that Wyndham has stolen data from my computer, beyond the account information that they already have access to? That crosses pretty far into paranoid conspiracy theory territory.


----------



## time4share

paxsarah said:


> Are you suggesting that Wyndham has stolen data from my computer, beyond the account information that they already have access to? That crosses pretty far into paranoid conspiracy theory territory.



Everyone of us are being victims. Your smart phone is the worse. The Wyndham new site will NOT work if you have your settings disabled. Just see for yourself. This being said. The old site was designed years ago and did not have the technology built into the code to capture data   This new site does. I keep trying to let people know this but most people still have their heads in the sand. I will try and upload a video explanation of this.  I'm not sure if I am allowed to do this though. 




This is a short video explaining the setting in your phone and what it gives to the app you have on your phone or the website you are visiting. 
By the way when you first activated your phone or computer you checked off on allowing the software creator to have your data and their is nothing you can do. Sounds evil ha? It is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BellaWyn

time4share said:


> If you want to get people really up in in arms. Telling them the truth about their data being stollen. Then they may unite to really do so thing. But. I'm serious about the data mining for our information in our computers. Wyndham sales division want more inside info on us before the presentation in order to find a dominating buying motive. I work with these guys in this industry and they are like snakes. Just saying
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Data mining has been around for literally YEARS.  This is NOT new information.  It's gotten worse with mobile devices and all of the APP permissions.  Some can be turned off, some cannot unless you want to delete the APP altogether or throw your smartphone in the trash heap and go back to analog methods.  It's not JUST Wyndham doing the data mining.  Anyone who knows anything about coding, networking or internet marketing knows about how data mining works and what is and isn't being captured.

Not suggesting that a LOT is not being captured because it is.  The intent is to watch the patterns of consumers and then do advanced planning for future marketing.  Consumers really don't stop to think about how that works and how marketing "sway" works. 

Related to our personal data specific to our accounts, we give that away as soon as we sign up for an online account login.  The consumer wants what they want and gives something up in exchange.  Legally, there is nothing we can do about it.  As Raygo123 said:



			
				raygo123 said:
			
		

> *".... that horse has left the barn the first time I said yes."*




Consumers have been being told this is happening and they are reminded about it the TOS and they still keep saying "YES"

Horse has already died on this one unless you want to go completely off-grid.


----------



## time4share

time4share said:


> Everyone of us are being victims. Your smart phone is the worse. The Wyndham new site will NOT work if you have your settings disabled. Just see for yourself. This being said. The old site was designed years ago and did not have the technology built into the code to capture data   This new site does. I keep trying to let people know this but most people still have their heads in the sand. I will try and upload a video explanation of this.  I'm not sure if I am allowed to do this though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a short video explaining the setting in your phone and what it gives to the app you have on your phone or the website you are visiting.
> By the way when you first activated your phone or computer you checked off on allowing the software creator to have your data and their is nothing you can do. Sounds evil ha? It is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Here is another video you should watch. Just take the time. If you are a real American. The reason we no nothing is because we are not taught. 
I personally think this guy is a hero for exposing this program. My understanding is Wyndham and other resorts have been approached about giving the data up to them as well as keeping it for their own gain. 







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## paxsarah

I'm pretty sure we don't need to conflate Edward Snowden's whistleblowing of the NSA with Wyndham's routine data mining for marketing.


----------



## time4share

time4share said:


> Here is another video you should watch. Just take the time. If you are a real American. The reason we no nothing is because we are not taught.
> I personally think this guy is a hero for exposing this program. My understanding is Wyndham and other resorts have been approached about giving the data up to them as well as keeping it for their own gain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You may be scared by now and that's ok. Here is a very creditable source so you understand I'm not BS anyone here. 
Well apparently tapatalk won't allow it to be put on this site but you can google it. Wikipedia prism program. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

paxsarah said:


> Are you suggesting that Wyndham has stolen data from my computer, beyond the account information that they already have access to? That crosses pretty far into paranoid conspiracy theory territory.



You tell me. If you give it to them are they steeling it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## raygo123

time4share said:


> You tell me. If you give it to them are they steeling it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I always enjoy a good conspiracy theory



Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## paxsarah

time4share said:


> You tell me. If you give it to them are they steeling it?



I guess what I'm really asking is, are you suggesting they are stealing information that isn't covered in their publicly available privacy notice? Specifically, you said "data mining for information in our computers." Outside of the stuff in their privacy notice (e.g. cookies, IP address, device ID), were you suggesting they are somehow accessing information on my computer that I didn't expressly give them permission for?


----------



## time4share

raygo123 said:


> I always enjoy a good conspiracy theory
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



Tap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

es and No. in the Wyndham's privacy policy you gave them permission. Look it over before you agree. However if you don't agree then you don't get access. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

Yes and No. in the Wyndham's privacy policy you gave them permission. Look it over before you agree. However if you don't agree then you don't get access. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

For some reason Tapatalk wouldn't allow me to upload what I was wanting to reply to you with. My email is time4share@gmail.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BellaWyn

time4share said:


> For some reason Tapatalk wouldn't allow me to upload what I was wanting to reply to you with. My email is time4share@gmail.com
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In this particular instance, TGFSF!  Please don't!


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> *That's a ChaChaCha statement.*
> 
> You know more but cannot say what it is, ergo we must believe that your conculsions are always more accurate with a CYA thrown in JIC because you could be wrong but you don't think you are, with a smattering of sincerety just for good measure,  and therefore we all must fully embrace the information because of your extensive experience (not questioning that) but you still can't say what the big piece is and yet, it's an important piece, important enough for you to have to keep quiet about it and because of that it means you are the MOST believable person in the room.  * Sweetie, how does this not come off as SPIN?*.  That statement is just chasing it's own tail at best.  (apologies for the run-on sentence everyone)
> 
> 
> And, once again, this is a statement that supports that WYNs actions are a result of the * FEW* so that now the bulk of the ownership must shoulder the weight of the fallout.
> 
> Am not saying the changes were not warranted or that the playing field did not need to be leveled.  Am saying it could have been done less abruptly, thus creating less disruption for the rest of the owners.  It could have been finessed in a way that feels more seemless.  And yet, that's not what has happened.  Accounts have been hijacked, strong arm tactics employed and owners and WYN staff are scrambling trying to figure out how to right the ship.  The dominos have NOT fallen gracefully. A bomb got dropped and we are scooping up bodies and debris and still looking for MIAs.




"A bomb was dropped" got it. If that's what you want to convince me of, You've done it. I agree. 


Now what?  Tell me what to do


----------



## WalnutBaron

cayman01 said:


> Okay, let's recreate the crime as it were, because as I think about it things are becoming much clearer. I think Both you and Ron are right. So, let's start at the beginning. Your red flag.
> 
> I remember reading a post back when this all got started of somebody who was talking to Wyndham and the guy at Wyndham saw he had 6 million points of reservations in a one million point VIP account. I believe that was the red flag that started this all. Wyndham couldn't figure out how he had so any points and the owner wasn't too sure either. He/she had credit pooled, used his discounts, etc, but didn't realize how many he actually had because there was no points history.
> 
> So Wyndham freezes his account to do an audit and discovers the cancelled points fiasco. They think the owner is gaming the system. Owner has no idea what they are talking about. Wyndham realizes they have a problem.
> 
> They decide to see how big the problem is. Who else has too many points? They find all the big Megarenters do . Plus a lot of owners who do not hardly rent  if they rent at all. They realize now they have a big problem. Everybody gets their account frozen. In come the forensic accountants. And at this point I think Wyndham thinks that people have found a way to create points in their account. And to a point I think they are right as there is one person on this board who alluded to it. I'm not naming names as they have had enough trouble as it is. It is not Ron.
> 
> They start talking to owners and finally get to Ron who opens their eyes to what is gong on with credit pooling, cancel/rebook, etc. All within the rules. When they ask about extra points Ron, as well as everybody else, has no idea. They were doing so many rentals they weren't keeping track of that.
> 
> What to do?
> 
> Time to fast track Voyager. They couldn't fix the old system for some unknown reason. So they rushed Voyager into place. They changed the credit pooling, cancel/rebook and added a points history so each account can be tracked. The thing is is that Voyager wasn't ready. They knew it but put it into place anyway. Why? I think because they were dangerously close to being in deep trouble with the trust. The suspended accounts could have been released long ago, but Wyndham didn't want the players to go back to their old tricks until the problems were fixed. It would/might put them over the edge as far as the trust balancing goes.
> 
> So here is where we are at. Wyndham has a poor system in place, but it was better than the alternative. They are working to fix it. They need to work much harder. We owners are stuck with it for now. This theory does explain why we have what we have. Wyndham couldn't keep people locked out forever. And they couldn't continue using the old system cause they couldn't figure out how to fix the extra points problem. Why that is I don't know. Maybe it's akin to changing a seal on an engine- you have to take the whole thing apart to get to that one seal. And you can't shut down a reservation system for a couple of weeks. Those of you in IT can better explain that part for me. I am not a software/hardware guy.
> 
> The new rules and features not only level the playing field a bit, but they are designed to keep the trust in balance. The real reason for all the changes and Voyager. I think we were very close to e meltdown.



I believe this post ought to be highlighted and headlined--as I think it drives to the heart of the whole colossal mess that is the Wyndham reservations system. What began as complaints and focus on the new website has uncovered a much larger and _*much more grave and momentous situation*_--the very integrity of the Wyndham system. Though not a Wyndham owner, I've been reading this and related threads for weeks now with fascination and want to compliment all of you who have participated and struggled mightily to divine what has actually been going on behind the scenes, since Wyndham isn't saying anything, nor will they. I find it utterly unconscionable that the sales weasels continue to do their grossly dishonest thing--and have now piled on by continuing to not only sell extremely overpriced timeshare intervals to unwitting marks, but are now doing so knowing that those marks are not only overpaying, but are also buying into a fiasco that makes using their newly-owned property a massive run of the gauntlet.

I consider what all of you have done and are doing here on this board to be truly heroic. Yes, you're rightly incredibly frustrated. But you've also helped each other drill through all of the misinformation from Wyndham to get at the heart of the matter and find the truth, or at least a significant part of it. The service you've done to your fellow TUGgers--and to the timeshare industry--cannot be understated.


----------



## Pietin

raygo123 said:


> I always enjoy a good conspiracy theory



I tried logging into the new system to check availability at GC, put my tin-foil hat on and still nothing showed up.  Maybe a faraday cage would help.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Pietin said:


> I tried logging into the new system to check availability at GC, put my tin-foil hat on and still nothing showed up.  Maybe a faraday cage would help.



I have now an image of you as Gene Hackman in the movie Enemy of the State.  He was in his faraday cage, and did bug sweeps before he entered.   LOL


----------



## raygo123

Pietin said:


> I tried logging into the new system to check availability at GC, put my tin-foil hat on and still nothing showed up.  Maybe a faraday cage would help.


Now that's just silly.  Tin foil hats?  They know all about that.  Latex, that's the ticket when they try to penetrate your info it will slide right off.

At least that's what I heard.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan M.

Can, sorry, May I please borrow your hat?

I'm trying to make a reservation and it won't let me borrow the points. I called and neither the VC nor the supervisor could do it either. Told them I will try again later as this happens frequently but then my account is fine later in the day. By then of course the reservation is gone. This time I quit being so darn stubborn and just rented the points so I don't lose the reservation. When I can borrow again I will just cancel the reservation and hopefully be able to rebook it. Maybe the hat will help me.


----------



## BellaWyn

Pietin said:


> I tried logging into the new system to check availability at GC, put my tin-foil hat on and still nothing showed up.  Maybe a faraday cage would help.


Are you using Reynolds Wrap tin foil or generic?  Which is more effective? 

Oh, and what gauge?  Standard duty @ .0007 mil thickness, Heavy duty @ .001 mils or Extra Heavy Duty (good for the grill) @ .0016 mils? 

Jan needs a hat but I want to make sure she is getting the best quality possible.


----------



## raygo123

BellaWyn said:


> Are you using Reynolds Wrap tin foil or generic?  Which is more effective?
> 
> Oh, and what gauge?  Standard duty @ .0007 mil thickness, Heavy duty @ .001 mils or Extra Heavy Duty (good for the grill) @ .0016 mils?
> 
> Jan needs a hat but I want to make sure she is getting the best quality possible.


I would start small .0007

Try it out, if it don't work i suggest an up grade.  It a better roll , at .001millthat only .0003 mill.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## cayman01

raygo123 said:


> I would start small .0007
> 
> Try it out, if it don't work i suggest an up grade.  It a better roll , at .001millthat only .0003 mill.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



I'm using the extra heavy duty with a coating of latex. Not taking any chances.....


----------



## raygo123

cayman01 said:


> I'm using the extra heavy duty with a coating of latex. Not taking any chances.....


Smart move, excellent choice you are now reserved with the few; as far as im concerned!!! And have all the benefits that go with it. 

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## BellaWyn

cayman01 said:


> I'm using the extra heavy duty with a coating of latex. Not taking any chances.....


Ooooohhh.....  liquid latex on tin foil.  That's some serious commitment!  Impressive!


----------



## Pietin

BellaWyn said:


> Ooooohhh.....  liquid latex on tin foil.  That's some serious commitment!  Impressive!



Maybe you can use that stuff they stop the leak roof or glue the boat together on the infomercial with.  It should let any electrons in or out.


----------



## Wolf&Sprite

raygo123 said:


> I would start small .0007
> 
> Try it out, if it don't work i suggest an up grade.  It a better roll , at .001millthat only .0003 mill.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



Do I get a bonus roll that will get me to temporary VIP?  That way I can upgrade my .0007 to .001 or maybe even .0016 if available.


----------



## raygo123

Pietin said:


> Maybe you can use that stuff they stop the leak roof or glue the boat together on the infomercial with.  It should let any electrons in or out.


Ummmm, for about 3 minutes, unless you can hold your breath longer, you will lose benefits, like life.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## raygo123

Wolf&Sprite said:


> Do I get a bonus roll that will get me to temporary VIP?  That way I can upgrade my .0007 to .001 or maybe even .0016 if available.


Sorry, VIP? I hear the old guys talking about that

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## BellaWyn

Wolf&Sprite said:


> Do I get a bonus roll that will get me to temporary VIP?  That way I can upgrade my .0007 to .001 or maybe even .0016 if available.


Mmmm....  the Extra Heavy Duty .0016 availability is going to be scarce -- summer is coming and people are going to be grilling like crazy.  But you may get lucky if you roll twice the volume of the .0007 up really tight and you get a lucky bounce on the signal.  Would stick with the name brand product because generic gets sketchy because they may SAY it's an .0007 mil but in reality the number represented may only be symbolic.  Could produce a phantom result.  Make sure you test it on the front end so you know it's working correctly before you take it live otherwise it could implode and fry your brain.


----------



## nicemann

So happy I found TUG last year and bought resell instead of Developer...I would be really pissed right now.  Thanks TUG for not only saving me money but also for convincing me not to go buy even more points after my first couple of months.


----------



## traveldaddy

nicemann said:


> So happy I found TUG last year and bought resell instead of Developer...I would be really pissed right now.  Thanks TUG for not only saving me money but also for convincing me not to go buy even more points after my first couple of months.



Yes, TUG is well worth it, even if you end up buying a few tinfoil hats now and again...............


----------



## nicemann

Just in case you are too lazy to make your own tinfoil hats...eBay has you covered.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tinfoil-Hat-/292079690697?hash=item44014e63c9:g:1PAAAOSwSypY9p62

Free shipping to anyone in the US and Canada.  It should have most of us covered.  Looks like one of us already bought one.


----------



## dagger1




----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

time4share said:


> If you want to get people really up in in arms. Telling them the truth about their data being stollen. Then they may unite to really do so thing. But. I'm serious about the data mining for our information in our computers. Wyndham sales division want more inside info on us before the presentation in order to find a dominating buying motive. I work with these guys in this industry and they are like snakes. Just saying
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Should I "dump everything " and go back to a prepaid flip phone ?
400 x  double minutes/ 1 year / $99 - no name 
where is Carlos Slim when you need him ?


----------



## time4share

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Should I "dump everything " and go back to a prepaid flip phone ?
> 400 x  double minutes/ 1 year / $99 - no name
> where is Carlos Slim when you need him ?



We all need to band together in numbers is all anyone pays attention to. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

Class action. I will build the website for people to go put their name on and  be able to fight back. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

They can have all my data if they can get the website working


----------



## wanderround

The Availability Calendar seems to be offline. Maybe they are making some improvements.


----------



## WyndhamBarter

wanderround said:


> The Availability Calendar seems to be offline. Maybe they are making some improvements.



I concur.  I tried a couple of different entries into Canterbury availability calendar; no data shown.  It won't even name the month.


----------



## time4share

WyndhamBarter said:


> I concur.  I tried a couple of different entries into Canterbury availability calendar; no data shown.  It won't even name the month.



I have ALL of the top executives emails with Wyndham. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

I have ALL of the top executives emails with Wyndham. If everyone would email them it would plug their in boxes up. Maybe they will listen up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolf&Sprite

I calendar search is broken too, but I was able to cancel two reservations that I haven't been able to cancel all week.  I wonder if they will go back into inventory.


----------



## nicemann

Calendar seems to be working again.  Doesn't look like they changed anything.


----------



## markb53

nicemann said:


> Calendar seems to be working again.  Doesn't look like they changed anything.



I have found that the calander stops working at about 12:00 ET every night (or at least every night I have checked). Have other not seen this.


----------



## happyhopian

paxsarah said:


> Are you suggesting that Wyndham has stolen data from my computer, beyond the account information that they already have access to? That crosses pretty far into paranoid conspiracy theory territory.


Funny you bring this up. I opened up the developer tools on Chrome and was the inspector to see what was being pulled in OMG. The Wyndham session captures EVERYTHING open in my browser. My facebook and twitter logins, emails, google accounts, password data (though it appears encrypted). I certainly don't think this is intentional but it is a HUGE security hole. This is just simply a lazy action by the coders instead of programming what they want, need or strict to their privacy notice. 

YES this means if you are logged into TUGBBS when you are logged into Wyndham, they will capture that session (not WHAT you are doing, just that you are also logged into Tug).

Try if for yourself. Open up the developer tools or if you are really fancy put it in bbedit and see what's there. Pretty lazy and pretty scary if they are actually using any of this.


----------



## buckor

Well, looks like I've been hit with the "negative" points issue...my points have been correct in the system since they put the points tab in place...well, tonight, I go to make a reservation  (for which I should have plenty of points in the points pool) and the system tells me I cannot because I do not have enough points. I go look at my points and now one of the selections says I am negative 189k points (that one was zero points). So, those negative points are more than my pooled points...now I cannot make the reservation. Intetestingly, there is not an entry in the points history as to why the change (i made a reservation the other day just to see the new process, then cancelled it. All the history is there for that transaction and cancel).

I am going to scream!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

happyhopian said:


> Funny you bring this up. I opened up the developer tools on Chrome and was the inspector to see what was being pulled in OMG. The Wyndham session captures EVERYTHING open in my browser. My facebook and twitter logins, emails, google accounts, password data (though it appears encrypted). I certainly don't think this is intentional but it is a HUGE security hole. This is just simply a lazy action by the coders instead of programming what they want, need or strict to their privacy notice.
> 
> YES this means if you are logged into TUGBBS when you are logged into Wyndham, they will capture that session (not WHAT you are doing, just that you are also logged into Tug).
> 
> Try if for yourself. Open up the developer tools or if you are really fancy put it in bbedit and see what's there. Pretty lazy and pretty scary if they are actually using any of this.



I originally put this YouTube video up because I do know what I'm talking about. They are using the data and in the mean time screwed up a nice reservation system. All in the name of greed. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

If you disabled your security the site will work better. Wyndham just wants to know your life. So just go ahead and give them your data. So far you give it to everyone else. Let's see. Att, Verizon, Microsoft, Sprint, all of the times you accepted a company discount card like Home Depot, Lowes, all your credit cards. Here is the deal. Everything you purchase, they want to know what's in your profile. All the data is pilled into a huge sada drive. Much like a USB drive but much larger. 
Wyndham is no different. Billions are spent each year in the timeshare industry. Wyndham wants your data so they can increase their sales. I'm not kidding either. Wake up 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pietin

time4share said:


> If you disabled your security the site will work better. Wyndham just wants to know your life. So just go ahead and give them your data. So far you give it to everyone else. Let's see. Att, Verizon, Microsoft, Sprint, all of the times you accepted a company discount card like Home Depot, Lowes, all your credit cards. Here is the deal. Everything you purchase, they want to know what's in your profile. All the data is pilled into a huge sada drive. Much like a USB drive but much larger.
> Wyndham is no different. Billions are spent each year in the timeshare industry. Wyndham wants your data so they can increase their sales. I'm not kidding either. Wake up



It doesn't matter, they get the information when you purchase products with RFID chips in them.  They can scan your garbage and follow your purchase from the manufacture to the time you pitch it.  

They can get your information when you walk into the store and your credit card has a chip in it  There are scanner throughout the store to pick up information on what product you look at, how long you are in a isle, how long you trip was.  

RFID are in everything, Magic Band have two antennas, one for close scanning close up, the gate, fastpass, room, etc and a long rang one that track movement.  Even the cups at the resort have RFID in them.

RFID are in passports, you work badges, i-pass (toll road payment system). 

There is no privacy anymore.  That genie is out of the bottle.  

Then if you can just imagine what the NSA has on all of us.  It blows the mind.  Companies use terms of service as a way to say you agree but try doing anything without agreeing.  As time4share said it all for sale too!  It all about separating you from your money.


----------



## time4share

Pietin said:


> It doesn't matter, they get the information when you purchase products with RFID chips in them.  They can scan your garbage and follow your purchase from the manufacture to the time you pitch it.
> 
> They can get your information when you walk into the store and your credit card has a chip in it  There are scanner throughout the store to pick up information on what product you look at, how long you are in a isle, how long you trip was.
> 
> RFID are in everything, Magic Band have two antennas, one for close scanning close up, the gate, fastpass, room, etc and a long rang one that track movement.  Even the cups at the resort have RFID in them.
> 
> RFID are in passports, you work badges, i-pass (toll road payment system).
> 
> There is no privacy anymore.  That genie is out of the bottle.
> 
> Then if you can just imagine what the NSA has on all of us.  It blows the mind.  Companies use terms of service as a way to say you agree but try doing anything without agreeing.  As time4share said it all for sale too!  It all about separating you from your money.



Exactly!! For years Wyndham did not have the capabilities so they had to create a whole new computer system that would allow them to capture you computer or smart phone information. It is powerful. I still say we can expose the truth and we can prevail. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandi Bo

markb53 said:


> I have found that the calander stops working at about 12:00 ET every night (or at least every night I have checked). Have other not seen this.


The availability calendar (selecting room by room option) is not working for me right now (12:30am ET).   I can search for a specific date range, but can't use the availability calendar.


----------



## markb53

Sandi Bo said:


> The availability calendar (selecting room by room option) is not working for me right now (12:30am ET).   I can search for a specific date range, but can't use the availability calendar.


I have found that about 11:45 to 11:50 ET, the next day's inventory shows up. And fairly soon after 12:00 ET the availability calander stops working. I assume this is because, the night time processes, upgrades for VIPs start. I have yet found out what time the calendar starts working again.


----------



## Sandi Bo

markb53 said:


> I have found that about 11:45 to 11:50 ET, the next day's inventory shows up. And fairly soon after 12:00 ET the availability calander stops working. I assume this is because, the night time processes, upgrades for VIPs start. I have yet found out what time the calendar starts working again.


Thanks. 
The availability calendar is working for me now.


----------



## markb53

Sandi Bo said:


> Thanks.
> The availability calendar is working for me now.



Interesting. Hasn't come back for me yet.


----------



## bnoble

Trying to book a week in late February in Orlando. Every resort shows availability (not surprising) for most categories. Click on "Book", the "I'm thinking" circle appears for a brief few seconds, and then disappears, leaving me on the page listing resort/unit-types that are available. This happens at every Orlando area resort for any 2BR, not just Bonnet Creek. I am able to get into the booking engine in e.g. Nashville for the same week.

I don't really feel like calling, and this isn't particularly urgent, so...I'll wait and see, I guess.


----------



## Sandi Bo

bnoble said:


> Trying to book a week in late February in Orlando. Every resort shows availability (not surprising) for most categories. Click on "Book", the "I'm thinking" circle appears for a brief few seconds, and then disappears, leaving me on the page listing resort/unit-types that are available. This happed tons at every Orlando area resort for any 2BR, not just Bonnet Creek. I am able to get into the booking engine in e.g. Nashville for the same week.
> 
> I don't really feel like calling, and this isn't particularly urgent, so...I'll wait and see, I guess.



I tried 2 different weeks at Bonnet Creek, looks like I could book if I wanted to...  Bonnet Creek is home resort of ours.  So, I also tried Reunion (not a home resort), also looks like it would work.  We are Club Wyndham Plus. Do you get this far?


----------



## markb53

bnoble said:


> Trying to book a week in late February in Orlando. Every resort shows availability (not surprising) for most categories. Click on "Book", the "I'm thinking" circle appears for a brief few seconds, and then disappears, leaving me on the page listing resort/unit-types that are available. This happens at every Orlando area resort for any 2BR, not just Bonnet Creek. I am able to get into the booking engine in e.g. Nashville for the same week.
> 
> I don't really feel like calling, and this isn't particularly urgent, so...I'll wait and see, I guess.



Were you searching a specific resort or searching all resorts in Orlando? I have found that if you search by city, state, or region and get availability in multiple resorts, the Book button doesn't work. You can use this method to find what is available, but to book you have to search the specific resort. Once you search the specific resort. You will see the same inventory and the Book button works.


----------



## bnoble

That's it. Thanks, Mark!


----------



## Sandi Bo

markb53 said:


> Were you searching a specific resort or searching all resorts in Orlando? I have found that if you search by city, state, or region and get availability in multiple resorts, the Book button doesn't work. You can use this method to find what is available, but to book you have to search the specific resort. Once you search the specific resort. You will see the same inventory and the Book button works.


Sorry, I specifically looked for Bonnet Creek and then Reunion.  I'll have to try the other way later (AFK).

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


----------



## markb53

markb53 said:


> Were you searching a specific resort or searching all resorts in Orlando? I have found that if you search by city, state, or region and get availability in multiple resorts, the Book button doesn't work. You can use this method to find what is available, but to book you have to search the specific resort. Once you search the specific resort. You will see the same inventory and the Book button works.



I have to take some of what I said back. I just tried searching all Orlando resorts. And when I got the results the Book button now works. It still doesn't work when you search by State or Region. They must have fixed city since I last checked. So I guess things are changing/improving.


----------



## chapjim

markb53 said:


> I have to take some of what I said back. I just tried searching all Orlando resorts. And when I got the results the Book button now works. It still doesn't work when you search by State or Region. They must have fixed city since I last checked. So I guess things are changing/improving.



Characterizing that as an improvement only reinforces how bad this system is.


----------



## markb53

chapjim said:


> Characterizing that as an improvement only reinforces how bad this system is.



I was being at least a little facetious with that statement. Aside from possibly the addition of showing the points on the website, I don't think much has changed since the release. Hopefully that is because they are hard at work fixing backend problems that they have to fix in order to fix the many front end problems. Ha Ha. I send an message through the website form asking if since they took the banner off the website that said that some features might not be working, do they consider the website to be complete. I got a basic canned response saying my comments would be forwarded to the leadership team and the IT team.


----------



## paxsarah

markb53 said:


> I send an message through the website form asking if since they took the banner off the website that said that some features might not be working, do they consider the website to be complete. .



*snort*


----------



## Cdn Gal

happyhopian said:


> Funny you bring this up. I opened up the developer tools on Chrome and was the inspector to see what was being pulled in OMG. The Wyndham session captures EVERYTHING open in my browser. My facebook and twitter logins, emails, google accounts, password data (though it appears encrypted). I certainly don't think this is intentional but it is a HUGE security hole. This is just simply a lazy action by the coders instead of programming what they want, need or strict to their privacy notice.
> 
> YES this means if you are logged into TUGBBS when you are logged into Wyndham, they will capture that session (not WHAT you are doing, just that you are also logged into Tug).
> 
> Try if for yourself. Open up the developer tools or if you are really fancy put it in bbedit and see what's there. Pretty lazy and pretty scary if they are actually using any of this.


This does not surprise me at all.  About 10 years ago my husbands family warmed us of this- to always close other web pages if you did not want one site knowing what else you were into.  (there were/are communication specialists).  Anytime you use the 'free' wifi at the resorts, they can look at your emails, messages and any social media.  A few years ago everybody was really concerned that the government was listening to our phone conversations...the Canadian government has had that ability since 1975.  It was only a short matter of time before companies began to use the technology as well.


----------



## happyhopian

SO.....

I got an email today that I had cancelled my reservation at Bonnet Creek except that I didn't. Apparently when I called in two weeks ago to find out why I couldn't cancel my reservations, the VC sent in a trouble tickets using that reservation as an example of the reservations that couldn't be cancelled on my account, so they cancelled it for me two weeks later.

So now I am missing the first few nights of my 10 day vacation on my daughter's birthday and they have no available inventory.
FML


----------



## Bigrob

happyhopian said:


> SO.....
> 
> I got an email today that I had cancelled my reservation at Bonnet Creek except that I didn't. Apparently when I called in two weeks ago to find out why I couldn't cancel my reservations, the VC sent in a trouble tickets using that reservation as an example of the reservations that couldn't be cancelled on my account, so they cancelled it for me two weeks later.
> 
> So now I am missing the first few nights of my 10 day vacation on my daughter's birthday and they have no available inventory.
> FML



Yeah. See my other thread "Another major issue..." similar situation. Wyndham cancelled my reservation that already had a guest name on it.


----------



## happyhopian

Bigrob said:


> Yeah. See my other thread "Another major issue..." similar situation. Wyndham cancelled my reservation that already had a guest name on it.


Anybody got a 3br for the 27-29th at BC I can buy...just stupid that I have 2 million points and I'm renting for my daughters birthday because wyndham cancelled my units that were booked in January.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Should go look at Extra Holidays to rent ... this is worst than the old wild west with gun slingers and highway bandits. You go to work or to sleep ... and POW .. you get robbed of a family vacation.

Sorry for your loss ...


----------



## levatino

Please Wyndham, make the website suck less.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Had to calm down as I had a bad morning doing my Day Job. Screaming and fits of insanity by the tenants at 13A directed at my Man Friday. Will have to see if Theo is still kicking around ... he is most scary to normal people and insane enough for the idiots to fear him. He did 10+ years in the state prison for MURDER only because his family is very well connected. His hobby is being a cat burglar as my Man Friday found out ... AND I warned him earlier that day. Been 10+ years and he still is pissed at himself for his truck getting robbed.

*So where is this going?*
Decided to try and get onto the new Wyndham site with my 2 member numbers. Got into both accounts. Reservations look good. Points status is 'okay'. Did play a little with looking to 'book' a reservation.


----------



## ronparise

vacationhopeful said:


> Had to calm down as I had a bad morning doing my Day Job. Screaming and fits of insanity by the tenants at 13A directed at my Man Friday. Will have to see if Theo is still kicking around ... he is most scary to normal people and insane enough for the idiots to fear him. He did 10+ years in the state prison for MURDER only because his family is very well connected. His hobby is being a cat burglar as my Man Friday found out ... AND I warned him earlier that day. Been 10+ years and he still is pissed at himself for his truck getting robbed.
> 
> *So where is this going?*
> Decided to try and get onto the new Wyndham site with my 2 member numbers. Got into both accounts. Reservations look good. Points status is 'okay'. Did play a little with looking to 'book' a reservation.




Is that the same Theo that I see posting here on TUG


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> Is that the same Theo that I see posting here on TUG



HIGHLY unlikely.....   Cannot imagine our TUG Theo, while possibly well connected, is either a cat burglar as a hobby or was in the state prison for murder.  WAY too sagacious for that action.

But then....  I could be wrong...


----------



## vacationhopeful

ronparise said:


> Is that the same Theo that I see posting here on TUG



No ... the "Theo" of that post would not know what a timeshare is or have a credit card in his name ... he is the guy who if you see walking down the block to your office, you lock all your doors, turn off the lights, hide behind the desk and wait an hour before coming out of your hiding spot. And then find all 4 tires missing from your car in front of your office... and you did not hear a thing.


----------



## BellaWyn

vacationhopeful said:


> No ... the "Theo" of that post would not know what a timeshare is or have a credit card in his name ... he is the guy who if you see walking down the block to your office, you lock all your doors, turn off the lights, hide behind the desk and wait an hour before coming out of your hiding spot. And then find all 4 tires missing from your car in front of your office... and you did not hear a thing.


*OMG *

I love it when you post this stuff!


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

vacationhopeful said:


> No ... the "Theo" of that post would not know what a timeshare is or have a credit card in his name ... he is the guy who if you see walking down the block to your office, you lock all your doors, turn off the lights, hide behind the desk and wait an hour before coming out of your hiding spot. And then find all 4 tires missing from your car in front of your office... and you did not hear a thing.



We all know Linda is from New Jersey / & what was the name of that TV show that had a guy named Tony in it .


----------



## vacationhopeful

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> We all know Linda is from New Jersey / & what was the name of that TV show that had a guy named Tony in it .



There is MORE TRUTH in the above than you think.
* NJ mandated that public high schools only need to offer 1 foreign language several years ago. The town I spend a lot of time in, the local board of educations chose Italian.
* The town has a chapter of the Sons of Italy. No other social clubs.
* A movie was film in that same town .. a star loaded movie. Used many public buildings and some private homes. J.Lo, Ben Affleck, Liv Tyler, Matt Damon, and George Carlin plus with Director Kevin Smith who wrote and produced the film. Kevin Smith hosted a full showing of the movie in the high school theater as a fund raiser for the town's Boy & Girl's Club ... Kevin Smith intro the movie and after its showing, took the stage and answer ANY and ALL questions from the attendees ... for 3.5 hours. The local refinery paid for the rental of the professional sound systems ($11,000) donation. And tickets could ONLY be brought by residents of the town ... I was allowed to buy 2 tickets (meaning the top price tickets was understood) as I have business dealings in the Boro (the correct nickname locals refer to their hometown).
* The local high school is over 100 years old. Same building. My grandfather graduated from that school as did my father and 3 aunts. My uncle left school at age 14 ... worked at the Mobil refinery in town until disabled.
* The high school wrestling team usually has at least 1 state champion wrestler yearly & team is the Division winner most years.
* The high school football's non-home games required the MOST security during the season for those home teams. When the team plays home games, there is 1 police officer ... plus every high school teacher and most staff members in attendance. And very few brave attendees from the visiting high schools. Team pride; hometown pride; unity.
* The town hosts an annual Santa Claus parade ... with all children telling Santa their Christmas wishes and a wrapped present is given to each little boy and girl. Elves who walk the parade route give EACH child watching the parade a large candy cane. Plus a July 4th parade with flags given to each child (and the kids ride their decorated bikes in the parade).
* The town has the large presence of religious Houses of Worship ... stain glass, bells, stone building, steeples, and church schools. On Tuesday mornings, the church at the corner of the 2 main streets, offers free donuts & coffee (or juice packs) to all from their table on the sidewalk ... the kids going to school, people going to work, people waiting for the bus, etc. Just as a community outreach ... no preaching. I have met some very nice people ther 
* Support local businesses ... and the local businesses serve the town. The TrueValue hardware store is preaching. I have met some very nice people there over the past 2 years of the outreach.the oldest GE dealer in their region (and delivery is free) ... and Dad (he is 92) comes into work most days .. he graduated HS with my aunt (who lives 2 miles down the road). The town is home to a professional sound stage to film commercials, etc. The former Mobil Oil refinery is still in operation (under a different name) plus Mobil still operates it newer lube production plant plus Boys & Girls Club building. A new deep water port pier (Delaware River) just opened with a contact from Dole Fruit cargo deliveries.  And the local Little League and the Wrestling Club (yes, a separate club for wrestling as the town has multiple PRO wrestlers).... are supported by this community.

This is an OLD river town. But it is NOT my hometown. I just work there some days. I grew up across the 'crick' in town up the road (ie the 2 lane state highway).


----------



## sjdanb

abeachbum said:


> Well, I got in.  Here's what I think, and it's just that, simply my opinion.
> 
> While I know there'll be bugs to work out, this thing is going to work. Not like we might want it to work, or how we are used to it working, but it will work. And it will do the things they said it would do. Not perfectly from day 1, but it will. It's here, and it's real. It will do the things folks wanted it to do, and the things folks feared it would do. (Whatever camp you're in!)
> 
> I don't like the reservation process.  Some of that is just working with something new, but some of it, in the brief time I had to look, is going to be incredibly cumbersome.
> 
> I don't know how long it was up, but would estimate less than 1 hour.  It may still be up for some, but once I left I wasn't allowed to come back. Based on the confirmation numbers I was seeing, I'd guess about 500 "transactions" were made and I don't have a clue if those were just reservations or anything it processed.
> 
> First thing when I signed on was a warning banner at the top of the screen that I had overlapping reservations. I also booked a new overlapping reservation; and as part of the booking process it gives you another warning screen about the overlap and you have to click on an acknowledgement of it to continue. The initial warning banner gave specific reservation numbers that were in the overlap; which makes me believe the cancelling of overlapping reservations will no longer be a manual process, but the system will know and will act accordingly.  If there's anything positive out of this, it is that at least now you will know what the overlap is and can fix it before any problems happen. It seems to be pretty smart about this.
> 
> There was a warning banner that auto upgrade was not working, but I successfully put in an auto upgrade request. I wasn't notified it happened, but it worked. So I tried it on another where I found available inventory that met the criteria, but this time it didn't upgrade. I think there will be a steep learning curve on what is an upgrade, and what the system considers an upgrade. (Maybe I'm wrong, there wasn't a whole lot of time to play around with it.) On the upgrade that did happen, I didn't see the room I upgraded from come back into inventory.  Maybe just coincidence. I also made a new reservation and was able to upgrade from a 1 bedroom to a 3 bedroom, so that's good news as it seems you can still upgrade more than one step (but with the auto upgrade searching all the time, don't count on it other than mud weeks or it being your very lucky day).
> 
> It will let you borrow points from next year (if you run out of current year points) and it will let you rent points, both worked just like they always have. At the end of a reservation, the confirmation screen shows what pot your points came from.
> 
> There is a history.  Shows everything you've done.  How many points are deducted and why, how many points are put back and why.
> 
> Booked and cancelled a reservation I made today. It was inside 15 days. The points came back like they should. Something new is I received a confirmation email about the cancel.... nice!
> 
> Speaking of confirmation emails, there is a change in the process.  No more getting the first one from the "do not reply" address showing what you booked.  Instead I received just the "your reservation is confirmed" email which is the one they normally email a day or two afterwards. (Time will tell if I receive another email in a couple days.)  So the promise of things being instant and in real time seem to be true. The email and confirmation letter look the same.
> 
> Searching inventory seemed slow.  It definitely was cumbersome.  I couldn't figure out how to do the broad searches I'm used to.  It wanted you to pretty much tell it what you specifically were looking for.  Exact dates, no ranges.  No searching up to 4 days before and after.  The orange "book" button will let you search across multiple unit types, but only using an exact, specific, check in and check out date. No multiple date ranges using that search process.  There is a way to search multiple dates but only one calendar month at a time, and only by specific room type.  And boy, have they made that cumbersome. You have every conceivable room "type" like 1BR, 1BR deluxe, 1BR vision impaired, 1BR hearing impaired, 1BR mobility impaired, 1BR presidential, 1BR presidential reserve, on and on; and it repeats this detailed breakdown for each unit size... 2BR, 3BR, etc.  For multiple date searches, you have to pick a room "type" (only one from those many choices) and then you will only see one calendar month of availability for that individual room "type". You can only search one at a time..... one by one by one by one by one........ each individual different 1BR type, each different 2BR type, etc.  I'm sure there's a better way to do broader searches (there's got to be) and hopefully more playing around will reveal something I missed.
> 
> Didn't look at ARP, moving points forward, RCI, or anything else, much other than searching, booking, cancelling, and upgrading.  There wasn't a lot of time.
> 
> It's here, and I think it's going to be pretty much like everyone expected. Except searching... there has got to be a better way and hopefully it will be back up tomorrow and I can figure that out better.
> 
> BEST ADVISE I GIVE IS WHEN YOU CAN SIGN ON, PLAY WITH IT. START GOING AROUND AND CLICKING ON THINGS AND SEEING WHAT'S OUT THERE. PLAY WITH THE BUTTONS, PLAY WITH THE TABS, SEE WHAT THEY MEAN AND HOW THEY CATAGORIZED THINGS. I FIGURED ALOT OF THINGS OUT IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME THIS WAY. AND I'VE ONLY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE.



I've been reading many of the comments about the new Wyndham website.  Following is a letter I sent to Owner Services.
Dear Sirs;
I very recently have become aware of Wyndham's new reservations/ booking procedures and regulations, which are going to be incorporated into the new website system in the near future.
I have known for a few months that you were constructing a new and improved, supposedly a faster and more efficient website, but most owners and I didn't have any idea that this new website was going to include numerous very important procedural and regulatory changes to your current reservations/ booking rules.
Let me tell you in as strong of terms as I can muster how disappointed I am with the timing and proposed implementation of these new reservations/ booking rules.  Having these changes presented in the way you have done is unfair and totally against your policies.  These new rules should have been sent out to all owners for their examination and suggestions, but instead they were embedded in a text section of the new proposed website, "the full overview of the changes to the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program in the 4/20/17 Supplement to the 2014-2015 CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Resort Directory" , which most owners didn't have the inclination or take the time to access.  It certainly wasn't an upfront and transparent method of letting your owners know about the important changes.
You state that these changes are "to simplify the program and enhance your vacation planning experience", but that certainly is not true in many instances.  All of the changes are important, but some of the new regulations are going to drastically affect the reservations/ booking procedures in a very negative way for all owners.  You should have given at least 2 to 4 months for notification and evaluation, for viewing and examining of these proposed changes, and then another evaluation of 2 to 4 months for further editing , clarity and finalizing, and then at least 6 to 12 months for reading and understanding them for time for all owners to adjust their already made, current and future personal bookings.  
Many owners, like myself, make personal, family and other bookings well into the future.  Your new changes are going to affect all ownership tiers in many ways, mostly adversely.  Many Platinum owners, like myself, who were told by your sales reps to utilize and even manipulate the reservations/ booking procedures to our advantage now are going to be severely restricted from doing these very things we were told to do.  We purchased more points, at your high retail prices, often numerous times because of your sales reps' recommendations.
Following are just a few of the current regulations and some of the recommendations your sales reps told especially Platinum owners to do, which will be severely limited or entirely eliminated in your new reservation/ booking procedures.
1. the ability to effectively "cancel and rebook" for discounts and upgrades
2. the ability to make timely and flexible upgrades
3. the flexible ability to not have to transfer (within 15 days) names to bookings until you know your personal, family and guests' final schedules
Many of your owners and I believe you are doing a great disservice to us by your new provisions and by the timing of your new website and its procedural changes.  Your lack of viewing and evaluation transparency for these very important changes and then the implementation of these changes without providing better clarity and and a phase in period for understanding and adjustment is totally against your public relations philosophy.  Your credo supposedly is to always treat your customers in a fair, respectful and truthful manner.
Thank you.


----------



## Sandy VDH

I sent an email to the CEO.  See if that gets any canned response back.


----------



## Sandi Bo

sjdanb said:


> I've been reading many of the comments about the new Wyndham website.  Following is a letter I sent to Owner Services.
> Dear Sirs;
> I very recently have become aware of Wyndham's new reservations/ booking procedures and regulations, which are going to be incorporated into the new website system in the near future.
> I have known for a few months that you were constructing a new and improved, supposedly a faster and more efficient website, but most owners and I didn't have any idea that this new website was going to include numerous very important procedural and regulatory changes to your current reservations/ booking rules.
> Let me tell you in as strong of terms as I can muster how disappointed I am with the timing and proposed implementation of these new reservations/ booking rules.  Having these changes presented in the way you have done is unfair and totally against your policies.  These new rules should have been sent out to all owners for their examination and suggestions, but instead they were embedded in a text section of the new proposed website, "the full overview of the changes to the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program in the 4/20/17 Supplement to the 2014-2015 CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Resort Directory" , which most owners didn't have the inclination or take the time to access.  It certainly wasn't an upfront and transparent method of letting your owners know about the important changes.
> You state that these changes are "to simplify the program and enhance your vacation planning experience", but that certainly is not true in many instances.  All of the changes are important, but some of the new regulations are going to drasticAnd ally affect the reservations/ booking procedures in a very negative way for all owners.  You should have given at least 2 to 4 months for notification and evaluation, for viewing and examining of these proposed changes, and then another evaluation of 2 to 4 months for further editing , clarity and finalizing, and then at least 6 to 12 months for reading and understanding them for time for all owners to adjust their already made, current and future personal bookings.
> Many owners, like myself, make personal, family and other bookings well into the future.  Your new changes are going to affect all ownership tiers in many ways, mostly adversely.  Many Platinum owners, like myself, who were told by your sales reps to utilize and even manipulate the reservations/ booking procedures to our advantage now are going to be severely restricted from doing these very things we were told to do.  We purchased more points, at your high retail prices, often numerous times because of your sales reps' recommendations.
> Following are just a few of the current regulations and some of the recommendations your sales reps told especially Platinum owners to do, which will be severely limited or entirely eliminated in your new reservation/ booking procedures.
> 1. the ability to effectively "cancel and rebook" for discounts and upgrades
> 2. the ability to make timely and flexible upgrades
> 3. the flexible ability to not have to transfer (within 15 days) names to bookings until you know your personal, family and guests' final schedules
> Many of your owners and I believe you are doing a great disservice to us by your new provisions and by the timing of your new website and its procedural changes.  Your lack of viewing and evaluation transparency for these very important changes and then the implementation of these changes without providing better clarity and and a phase in period for understanding and adjustment is totally against your public relations philosophy.  Your credo supposedly is to always treat your customers in a fair, respectful and truthful manner.
> Thank you.



Thanks for posting your letter.  I plan to follow up today with some communication as well. 

Another thing to add to our list of dirty things that Wyndham did along the way was no advance notice that credit pooling would be discontinued.   It was "as of today, April 19, no more credit pooling of 2019 points". Felt dirty to me. Any honest company would have given us some warning.

This letter does a great job addressing the changes WYN implemented.  Something we (me anyways) tend to lose sight of some of this because the new system is such a disaster.  This letter represents how we would feel if the changes had in fact been successfully implemented.  We have to add on top of these points the hot mess of a system we (and the VC's) are expected to rely on moving forward. 

My attitude was show me the changes and I'll learn to deal with them.  But that certainly is hard to do these days with the system so incredibly unreliable (after a month - unprecedented as far as any IT project I've ever seen).


----------



## 55plus

sjdanb said:


> Many of your owners and I believe you are doing a great disservice to us by your new provisions and by the timing of your new website and its procedural changes.  Your lack of viewing and evaluation transparency for these very important changes and then the implementation of these changes without providing better clarity and and a phase in period for understanding and adjustment is totally against your public relations philosophy.  Your credo supposedly is to always treat your customers in a fair, respectful and truthful manner.
> Thank you.


Wyndham's new credo: Let Them Eat Cake!  
_
"*Let them eat cake*" is the traditional translation of the French phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", supposedly spoken by "a great princess" upon learning that the peasants had no bread. Since brioche was a luxury bread enriched with butter and eggs, the quote would reflect the princess's disregard for the peasants, or her poor understanding of their situation._


----------



## wjappraise

55plus said:


> Wyndham's new credo: Let Them Eat Cake!
> _
> "*Let them eat cake*" is the traditional translation of the French phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", supposedly spoken by "a great princess" upon learning that the peasants had no bread. Since brioche was a luxury bread enriched with butter and eggs, the quote would reflect the princess's disregard for the peasants, or her poor understanding of their situation._



Awesome.  I posted the same motto on another thread an hour ago.  Brilliant minds think alike.   Or maybe frustrated minds.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CO skier

55plus said:


> Wyndham's new credo: Let Them Eat Cake!


In Colorado the translation would be, "Qu'ils mangent de la brownies".

I think more than a few Club Wyndham owners could use some Colorado brownies about now.


----------



## time4share

CO skier said:


> In Colorado the translation would be, "Qu'ils mangent de la brownies".
> 
> I think more than a few Club Wyndham owners could use some Colorado brownies about now.



Personally I think Wyndham's IT department has been eating Colorado brownies while building new website. I'm ready for a class action. How about you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CO skier

time4share said:


> Personally I think Wyndham's IT department has been eating Colorado brownies while building new website. I'm ready for a class action. How about you?


About 10 years ago, the Wixons launched a "successful" class action lawsuit against Wyndham on the behalf of WorldMark owners.

It resulted in a complete disaster for WorldMark owners.  The Wixons stupidly bought into the anti-Wyndham rhetoric at the time and sold the WorldMark membership down the river by agreeing to extract a significant amount of units from WorldMark, that WorldMark owners desperately wish they could now reserve.  The WorldMark Indio resort, where the most units were extracted, is the poster child for their class action debacle.

The last thing we need is some sort of attorney-enriching, class action lawsuit that screws all of us the way the Wixon lawsuit screwed all WorldMark owners, while giving the Wixon's attorneys a multi-million dollar payday.

The attorneys do not care if they win or lose, they only care about getting paid.


----------



## CO skier

duplicate post


----------



## time4share

CO skier said:


> About 10 years ago, the Wixons launched a "successful" class action lawsuit against Wyndham on the behalf of WorldMark owners.
> 
> It resulted in a complete disaster for WorldMark owners.  The Wixons stupidly bought into the anti-Wyndham rhetoric at the time and sold the WorldMark membership down the river by agreeing to extract a significant amount of units from WorldMark, that WorldMark owners desperately wish they could now reserve.  The WorldMark Indio resort, where the most units were extracted, is the poster child for their class action debacle.
> 
> The last thing we need is some sort of attorney-enriching, class action lawsuit that screws all of us the way the Wixon lawsuit screwed all WorldMark owners, while giving the Wixon's attorneys a multi-million dollar payday.
> 
> The attorneys do not care if they win or lose, they only care about getting paid.



Ok. I know what we should do. Let's vote with our dollars. Let's tell them to go back to the way it was or we STOP PAYING OR MAINTENANCE FEES. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## time4share

I pay 1800 a month on three million points and I haven't been able to book crap. I'm pretty feed up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CO skier

time4share said:


> Ok. I know what we should do. Let's vote with our dollars. Let's tell them to go back to the way it was or we STOP PAYING OR MAINTENANCE FEES.



Been there before



ronparise said:


> Thats not the way I would handle it... You still own the resort, and you are still responsible for your fair share of its maintenance and upkeep. And the maintenance fees have nothing to do with the administration of the club.    If you dont pay the hoa can foreclose.


----------



## ronparise

I think its important to distinguish between the the new rules  and the new website.. I see justifiable outrage directed at both, but I dont think a lawsuit will solve either side of this

Regarding the new rules... Like it or not Wyndhams motivation here was to make the system more fair and make more inventory available at the 13 month and 10 month mark for the regular guy owners. We know of course that the rules dont create more availability. so what they are trying to do is take availability away from one group and give it to another.   There are already "purpose" statements or goals, in the club disclosures to prohibit commercial renting and prohibit manipulating the rules to gain unfair advantage. These new rules are designed (I think) to enforce those two goals> Given the  purpose of the new rules, as I understand their purpose, I think you will be wasting your time and money in court

Regarding the new website. No doubt its a mess. But really, What are your damages?  You still own the property and one day you will be able to use your points. So you miss a vacation or two and thats worth something. But is it worth what a lawyer is going to cost?  And consider this; If you withhold maintenance fees from a resort I own, I think you have caused damage to me. and I might ask the manager of the resort to bring action against you


Please dont misunderstand me.  The website is a mess, and  some owners are going to miss out on some vacations they want. (but they will be able to vacation somewhere else sometime) All Im saying is that you are going to have trouble showing damages, worth what a lawyer is going to cost


----------



## vacationhopeful

Is Wyndham not headquartered in New Jersey? Where is Club Wyndham Access headquartered?

New Jersey does have some protection from evil landlords (and Wyndham is the owner/manager of the resorts ...aka Landlord) ... one clause is regarding the ability to USE your rented property. Tenants have the RIGHT to escrow their 'rent' in a bank account and demand their RIGHT to USE and ENJOY what the landlord has contracted to provide to the Tenant. *Illegal lockout or nonfunctioning 'locks' which might be considered a non-working computer program ... gets the TENANT a remedy of 3X the rent.*

And all you have to do, is send a certified letter with the cause of WHY you are withholding the landlord's rent until the issue is corrected, access is provided with use and to enjoy what they control. If landlord files suit on you for payment OR you file suit for costs YOU incurred to remedy, the JUDGE determines HOW the escrow money is divided between the parties.

While Small Claims courts have a CASH limit to collect ... in Landlord / Tenant Court in NJ does not have a limit on rent (and I believe, therefore, no limit on the 3X penalty to the landlord). So, 6 months of escrow rent (MFs) becomes 1.5 years of MFs. And if the landlord is the guilty party ... no late fees, no legal fees, etc.

PS Landlord tenant court does NOT like evil landlords who 'illegally' lock out their tenants. Padlocking the door or changing the code to drive into the complex ... is no different than FREEZING the computer system for using YOUR vacation home usage.
..
The escrow account has to be in a NJ bank...I believe but I don't know if the account has to have been opened in NJ. An account set up in a Texas Bank of America office should be accessible like it is in NJ?


----------



## wjappraise

ronparise said:


> Please dont misunderstand me.  The website is a mess, and  some owners are going to miss out on some vacations they want. (but they will be able to vacation somewhere else sometime) All Im saying is that you are going to have trouble showing damages, worth what a lawyer is going to cost



I believe there are definite damages to many owners, many of which have been recounted by posters on TUG.  However, they are not likely to rise to what would entice a credible attorney to take it on.  What seems to be the most galling, and frankly indefensible, is that Wyndham does not "own" this problem.  If this was any other Fortune 500 company, would they not seek to get out front of this, and make conciliatory reach-outs to the owners?  Even think of the video debacle that United Airlines had two months ago.  What happened?  Other than a failed attempt by the CEO to support his workers, they admitted the wrong, pledged to correct the situation going forward, and obviously over-compensated the man in the middle of it all (has anyone heard a peep out of him?).  Short version, they "owned" the mess and took full responsibility.  They did not say that "most flyers do not get beat up and lose teeth on United flights, so we think we are a success."  That is, in essence, what Wyndham is trying to say.  "Most owners" are happy with the new website, and a "small percentage" of owners have some issues that we are working to quickly resolve.  LIE.

This, in turn, causes many owners to want some sort of punitive action against Wyndham.  Not to get a payoff, but to get the proverbial "pound of flesh."  Does Wyndham not realize how impactful a simple, apologetic, and sincere phone call or email would be?  How about a gift certificate for a free weekend for each owner that has had issues with the new website that were Wyndham's fault?  The public relations aspect would be so much better than it is.

Wyndham has no motivation at all to prioritize getting things fixed and protecting our data.  They need to be motivated.


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> I think its important to distinguish between the the new rules  and the new website.. I see justifiable outrage directed at both, but I dont think a lawsuit will solve either side of this
> 
> Regarding the new rules... Like it or not Wyndhams motivation here was to make the system more fair and make more inventory available at the 13 month and 10 month mark for the regular guy owners. We know of course that the rules dont create more availability. so what they are trying to do is take availability away from one group and give it to another.   There are already "purpose" statements or goals, in the club disclosures to prohibit commercial renting and prohibit manipulating the rules to gain unfair advantage. These new rules are designed (I think) to enforce those two goals> Given the  purpose of the new rules, as I understand their purpose, I think you will be wasting your time and money in court
> 
> Regarding the new website. No doubt its a mess. But really, What are your damages?  You still own the property and one day you will be able to use your points. So you miss a vacation or two and thats worth something. But is it worth what a lawyer is going to cost?  And consider this; If you withhold maintenance fees from a resort I own, I think you have caused damage to me. and I might ask the manager of the resort to bring action against you
> 
> 
> Please dont misunderstand me.  The website is a mess, and  some owners are going to miss out on some vacations they want. (but they will be able to vacation somewhere else sometime) All Im saying is that you are going to have trouble showing damages, worth what a lawyer is going to cost


I just miss the old Ron that was always in for an anti-wyndham discussion. This Ron got his arse handed to him, though it was likely better than the worst case but remember sir, the rest of us have not been through that process. Have a little respect for our anger. As futile as you might think it is you point for weeks has been suck it up or sell out. Just because it cost money to do something there are times when in fact it is the right thing to do. As I have posted on here several times - wyndham has a legal (not just contractual) obligation to manage the trust for OUR benefit, not theirs. If by failure of their management they have not done this then there are repercussions. I am pursuing my own line of progress and I suggest that each person do theirs. Doing nothing only frustrates you, doing something, even if not totally successful can be successful in reducing anxiety. The first step I recommend to everyone is to write or email both the attorney general in the state in which you own property, your own attorney general, the florida attorney general and your congressman/senator in washington. You'll be shocked at the response you get. I was.


----------



## ronparise

happyhopian said:


> I just miss the old Ron that was always in for an anti-wyndham discussion. This Ron got his arse handed to him, though it was likely better than the worst case but remember sir, the rest of us have not been through that process. Have a little respect for our anger. As futile as you might think it is you point for weeks has been suck it up or sell out. Just because it cost money to do something there are times when in fact it is the right thing to do. As I have posted on here several times - wyndham has a legal (not just contractual) obligation to manage the trust for OUR benefit, not theirs. If by failure of their management they have not done this then there are repercussions. I am pursuing my own line of progress and I suggest that each person do theirs. Doing nothing only frustrates you, doing something, even if not totally successful can be successful in reducing anxiety. The first step I recommend to everyone is to write or email both the attorney general in the state in which you own property, your own attorney general, the florida attorney general and your congressman/senator in washington. You'll be shocked at the response you get. I was.




The old Ron was criticized on the WMowners website for being a little too pro wyndham. 
I dont think I ever was too critical of the company or the way they managed the club, except for their sales practices. 

and the point you make regarding their obligation to manage the trust for OUR benefit, not theirs,  Is the point Ive been trying to make here. Whether its true or not I think wyndham can make the case that they have managed the club for the benefit of the owners. At least you will have a difficult task to prove otherwise. 

Right now I am working with a non VIP owner  to try to extract some value from their ownership under the new rules. Except for  difficult searches and the missing inventory at some resorts,  I have been able to use the new website.. Points totals are accurate,  we paid mf online, and made reservations and added guests... The thing works for me and I think most owners. Not as well as it should, but it works.


----------



## 55plus

CO skier said:


> In Colorado the translation would be, "Qu'ils mangent de la brownies".
> 
> I think more than a few Club Wyndham owners could use some Colorado brownies about now.


I believe the think tank behind the dysfunctional website were on something when they finalized the website. Maybe it was Colorado brownies. Because of the frustration trying to cope with the website everyone should get themselves a medical marijuana card to help deal with it, or go shopping in Colorado if you can find availability.


----------



## 55plus

ronparise said:


> Right now I am working with a non VIP owner  to try to extract some value from their ownership under the new rules. Except for  difficult searches and the missing inventory at some resorts,  I have been able to use the new website.. Points totals are accurate,  we paid mf online, and made reservations and added guests... The thing works for me and I think most owners. Not as well as it should, but it works.


So you are working with an owner to "help extract some value from their ownership under the new rules." That tells me Wyndham has devalued the product and service they provide even more. Granted, in reality points have little value. Wyndham lies and sells points to unsuspecting families under pressure. They recently devalued the little value the points have even more and continue to lie to and apply pressure to sell points to unsuspecting families for tens of thousands of dollars that have been devalued. If you actually think about the pressure applied and the lies told at sales presentations, here is a true definition of Wyndham. I inserted the what, who, where and why in parentheses bold:

*or·gan·ized crime*
_noun_
    criminal activities (*pressure and lies*) that are planned and controlled by powerful groups (*Wyndham*) and carried out on a large scale (*Wyndham sales offices*) as a means of generating income (*profit*).


----------



## Street

ronparise said:


> The old Ron was criticized on the WMowners website for being a little too pro wyndham.
> I dont think I ever was too critical of the company or the way they managed the club, except for their sales practices.
> 
> and the point you make regarding their obligation to manage the trust for OUR benefit, not theirs,  Is the point Ive been trying to make here. Whether its true or not I think wyndham can make the case that they have managed the club for the benefit of the owners. At least you will have a difficult task to prove otherwise.
> 
> Right now I am working with a non VIP owner  to try to extract some value from their ownership under the new rules. Except for  difficult searches and the missing inventory at some resorts,  I have been able to use the new website.. Points totals are accurate,  we paid mf online, and made reservations and added guests... The thing works for me and I think most owners. Not as well as it should, but it works.



For those of you that the website works for I could use some help.  The new booking process involves 4 steps.  When I get to the 4th step "Complete" button.  It gives me a red line and says to check the above details.  All details are correct but it will not let me complete the reservation.  Has anyone else seen this error and if so do you have a workaround?  I'm using both the latest versions of Chrome and IE.


----------



## Street

Street said:


> For those of you that the website works for I could use some help.  The new booking process involves 4 steps.  When I get to the 4th step "Complete" button.  It gives me a red line and says to check the above details.  All details are correct but it will not let me complete the reservation.  Has anyone else seen this error and if so do you have a workaround?  I'm using both the latest versions of Chrome and IE.



I should note that step 3 (Payment Details) is skipped because it is just a points booking and no additional fees required.  I feel like something about skipping that step is causing the issue, but normally fees are not required for VIP's so I'm not sure if that is the issue or not.


----------



## markb53

Street said:


> I should note that step 3 (Payment Details) is skipped because it is just a points booking and no additional fees required.  I feel like something about skipping that step is causing the issue, but normally fees are not required for VIP's so I'm not sure if that is the issue or not.



What are you trying to book. I played around with a lot of test booking to see what the system does and I have gotten the read bar as you discribe when I have tried to book a presidential reserve unit. And I am not within the required 30 days since I am not PR. I think I have also gotten that when I am going too far into the ARP for a resort that I don't have ARP for. Let me know where you are trying to book and I will try also and see if the same thing happens to me.


----------



## Street

markb53 said:


> What are you trying to book. I played around with a lot of test booking to see what the system does and I have gotten the read bar as you discribe when I have tried to book a presidential reserve unit. And I am not within the required 30 days since I am not PR. I think I have also gotten that when I am going too far into the ARP for a resort that I don't have ARP for. Let me know where you are trying to book and I will try also and see if the same thing happens to me.



Star Island (Orlando, FL) June 30th - July 1st.  Reserve a 1 BR suite (16, 875 pts with silver VIP).  Upgrade to 2 BR Lockoff (does not matter if you actually upgrade or not).


----------



## markb53

Street said:


> Star Island (Orlando, FL) June 30th - July 1st.  Reserve a 1 BR suite (16, 875 pts with silver VIP).  Upgrade to 2 BR Lockoff (does not matter if you actually upgrade or not).



Then this is for 1 night. I'm not getting the red bar. I obviously didn't want to click the complete on the verify screen. Are you getting it after you check the anti-robot check box and click complete


----------



## Jan M.

Street said:


> For those of you that the website works for I could use some help.  The new booking process involves 4 steps.  When I get to the 4th step "Complete" button.  It gives me a red line and says to check the above details.  All details are correct but it will not let me complete the reservation.  Has anyone else seen this error and if so do you have a workaround?  I'm using both the latest versions of Chrome and IE.



Yes this is happening to many of us. We can rent points but not use nor borrow them from next year. Try to see if it will let you rent points because I bet it will. Test it by making a cheap two night mid week reservation. Afterwards you can cancel it with no problem. 

You will have to call in to get this fixed and when you do, insist on getting it escalated and a case number. Just don't expect it to get fixed right away because some of us have been waiting for a while.


----------



## paxsarah

55plus said:


> So you are working with an owner to "help extract some value from their ownership under the new rules." That tells me Wyndham has devalued the product and service they provide even more. Granted, in reality points have little value. Wyndham lies and sells points to unsuspecting families under pressure. They recently devalued the little value the points have even more and continue to lie to and apply pressure to sell points to unsuspecting families for tens of thousands of dollars that have been devalued. If you actually think about the pressure applied and the lies told at sales presentations, here is a true definition of Wyndham. I inserted the what, who, where and why in parentheses bold:
> 
> *or·gan·ized crime*
> _noun_
> criminal activities (*pressure and lies*) that are planned and controlled by powerful groups (*Wyndham*) and carried out on a large scale (*Wyndham sales offices*) as a means of generating income (*profit*).



What you're really talking about here are sales tactics issues, not issues with the malfunctioning website or even so much the new guidelines it brought with it. You're also conflating two forms of "value" of Wyndham points. There is "value" as an asset, in which Wyndham points do not (and have not ever, AFAIK) held much value. And then there's value as a currency to spend on vacations, and as a non-VIP owner like Ron's client, I find their currency value to be satisfactory and not significantly changed by the new guidelines. I know the calculus will be different for VIPs given some of the changes, but in terms of non-VIPs (which include myself and Ron's client in the post you're responding to), I don't see a huge change in value (even taking into account the credit pool changes which impact me personally but haven't inspired me to sell my contracts...yet).

I know the current website issues may contribute to a temporary decrease in value due to booking issues (which I do think is outrageous and unacceptable), but as an optimist I really do feel it's temporary.


----------



## raygo123

vacationhopeful said:


> Is Wyndham not headquartered in New Jersey? Where is Club Wyndham Access headquartered?
> 
> New Jersey does have some protection from evil landlords (and Wyndham is the owner/manager of the resorts ...aka Landlord) ... one clause is regarding the ability to USE your rented property. Tenants have the RIGHT to escrow their 'rent' in a bank account and demand their RIGHT to USE and ENJOY what the landlord has contracted to provide to the Tenant. *Illegal lockout or nonfunctioning 'locks' which might be considered a non-working computer program ... gets the TENANT a remedy of 3X the rent.*
> 
> And all you have to do, is send a certified letter with the cause of WHY you are withholding the landlord's rent until the issue is corrected, access is provided with use and to enjoy what they control. If landlord files suit on you for payment OR you file suit for costs YOU incurred to remedy, the JUDGE determines HOW the escrow money is divided between the parties.
> 
> While Small Claims courts have a CASH limit to collect ... in Landlord / Tenant Court in NJ does not have a limit on rent (and I believe, therefore, no limit on the 3X penalty to the landlord). So, 6 months of escrow rent (MFs) becomes 1.5 years of MFs. And if the landlord is the guilty party ... no late fees, no legal fees, etc.
> 
> PS Landlord tenant court does NOT like evil landlords who 'illegally' lock out their tenants. Padlocking the door or changing the code to drive into the complex ... is no different than FREEZING the computer system for using YOUR vacation home usage.
> ..
> The escrow account has to be in a NJ bank...I believe but I don't know if the account has to have been opened in NJ. An account set up in a Texas Bank of America office should be accessible like it is in NJ?


The only problem is, Wyndham is not the landlord or owner.  We are.  They are the administer of the trust.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan M.

markb53 said:


> Then this is for 1 night. I'm not getting the red bar. I obviously didn't want to click the complete on the verify screen. Are you getting it after you check the anti-robot check box and click complete



I happens at the final step.


----------



## markb53

I am one of the people that the site is basically working for. Now I am a small non VIP owner. I do however spend a lot of time playing with the site. I spent a lot of time playing with the old site. And I definitely see the issues that many of you are having. I'm having them too. I only make 2 - 4 reservations per year. So the fact that it takes much longer to search and book a reservation is not as big a problem for me. It is pretty obvious to me that Wyndham never invited an owner for lots of owners in to watch how they go about finding and booking a reservation. There was probably no way on the old system for Wyndham to see how owners were using the site. My guess is that when IT came to Wyndham and said "Gee now that are working with a system that looks at live data to find availability, it is really complicated to have all these different ways to look at it." "No problem" Wyndham says. "Let's make it much simpler and eliminate all the many ways you can search, and just have 2 ways".

And one of those ways (the availability calander) is painfully slow. 

And then there is all the owners that it is just not working for at all.
The most amazing thing to me is that Wyndham is not getting out in front of this and talking about it. This is why so many people think that Wyndham is doing all this on purpose. I admit, I am beginning to wonder about that myself.


----------



## raygo123

55plus said:


> So you are working with an owner to "help extract some value from their ownership under the new rules." That tells me Wyndham has devalued the product and service they provide even more. Granted, in reality points have little value. Wyndham lies and sells points to unsuspecting families under pressure. They recently devalued the little value the points have even more and continue to lie to and apply pressure to sell points to unsuspecting families for tens of thousands of dollars that have been devalued. If you actually think about the pressure applied and the lies told at sales presentations, here is a true definition of Wyndham. I inserted the what, who, where and why in parentheses bold:
> 
> *or·gan·ized crime*
> _noun_
> criminal activities (*pressure and lies*) that are planned and controlled by powerful groups (*Wyndham*) and carried out on a large scale (*Wyndham sales offices*) as a means of generating income (*profit*).


I guess it depends on which side of the fan you are on. It quite apparent which side your on.  To the guy who doesn't even know tug exists, never got cancel and rebook, now has more choices, and has till march to save his points for another day, what a deal.  

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

paxsarah said:


> What you're really talking about here are sales tactics issues, not issues with the malfunctioning website or even so much the new guidelines it brought with it. You're also conflating two forms of "value" of Wyndham points. There is "value" as an asset, in which Wyndham points do not (and have not ever, AFAIK) held much value. And then there's value as a currency to spend on vacations, and as a non-VIP owner like Ron's client, I find their currency value to be satisfactory and not significantly changed by the new guidelines. I know the calculus will be different for VIPs given some of the changes, but in terms of non-VIPs (which include myself and Ron's client in the post you're responding to), I don't see a huge change in value (even taking into account the credit pool changes which impact me personally but haven't inspired me to sell my contracts...yet).
> 
> I know the current website issues may contribute to a temporary decrease in value due to booking issues (which I do think is outrageous and unacceptable), but as an optimist I really do feel it's temporary.




I agree. I don't see that the new rules have changed the value of a non VIP account. There is the temporary inconvenience of the new website mess. But I don't think the new rules reduced the value of a non VIP  ownership at all

VIP ownerships are another story altogether.


----------



## johnstonga

Today is the One Month anniversary of the May 19 demise of the old reservation system, .... ie 'the good ole days'.

One would think the basic functions of new system would be working pretty smoothly.
One would be wrong.

I've spent better part of last hour trying to make a simple, no discount/upgrade reservation for September 2017.  

System will not process  the "auto upgrade" option regardless of which of the two I check.  
Then it won't let me Exit the booking .... it goes back to unworkable auto upgrade choice menu.

Yesterday I did succeed for first time to make a res with both a Discount and and Upgrade ... but I need to change the owner name .... and I cannot do it.

There is Nothing about the New site that seems like an improvement to me.
Clearly we owners are the Beta Testers for this site.

I do sympathize for the customer service and call center people.
I've been in their situation. imagine having to deal with angry/mad/frustrated people 8 hours a day every day ... and knowing there's really nothing much you can do to solve the problems...... and all this mess created by decision makers who earn 10+ more than the folks who have to clean it up.
I haven't even bothered to call .... I won't do a 10 minute hold,  much less 100 minutes.

This too shall pass ... I hope and pray.


----------



## CYRUS2400

ronparise said:


> I agree. I don't see that the new rules have changed the value of a non VIP account. There is the temporary inconvenience of the new website mess. But I don't think the new rules reduced the value of a non VIP  ownership at all
> 
> VIP ownerships are another story altogether.


To date, I have just read TUG and learned.  But, to say that rule changes did not impact value to the non-VIP (or VIP Silver) users.  Well, they did.  Those of us with fewer points, that valued vacation options, used the 3 year pooling process.  In my case, I pooled my points EVERY year to maximize my vacation planning flexibility.  The points deposit feature is a huge downgrade, a value reducer.  Don't suggest that us smaller point holders aren't feeling the pain.  I'm forced now to play games like creating 'phantom reservations' to ensure my deposited points get used first.  And, those Phantom Reservations take RT's which are in short supply for many users.  The search function sucks for all of us.  Let's try not to trivialize what has been lost, we've all lost something.  I'll not trivialize what the mega-renters have lost, please don't trivialize what us small point users have lost.


----------



## markb53

ronparise said:


> I agree. I don't see that the new rules have changed the value of a non VIP account. There is the temporary inconvenience of the new website mess. But I don't think the new rules reduced the value of a non VIP  ownership at all
> 
> VIP ownerships are another story altogether.



I agree as a non VIP owner. I really like that I can now see my available ARP online and book it online. This appears to work although I have gone all the through to the Complete button since I don't want to expend 1 (or I guess 2 when I cancel) of my 3 measly RTs to test to see if I can book. I have a resort that I go to every year (Wyndham Angels Camp) in February and/or March. And to date there is no inventory in Feb, Mar. or the beginning of April. There is inventory in ARP in April. But one day disappears  as ARP advances by one day at 12:00 ET each day.


----------



## puppymommo

As a non-VIP owner,  I would say we are impacted less than the VIPs. But we are all affected. I agree with  the person who said that the loss of the 3 year credit pool is significant to the smaller point owners. It gave us much more flexibility, although in 20 years of ownership I only used it once. The difficulty searching and making  reservations impacts us all. It is just a matter of degree. As an under 300k point owner, I only make 1-3 reservations a year. A million point owner making dozens of reservations a year is going to  suffer a whole other degree of  magnitude with the cumbersome search and reserve process of  our "upgraded" website. As CYRUS2400 put it: The search function sucks for all of us.


----------



## bnoble

ronparise said:


> I don't see that the new rules have changed the value of a non VIP account.


Overall, I think the change from pool to deposit-forward is a slight negative. If deposited points are not used before "original to that year" points, its a bit worse.


----------



## markb53

CYRUS2400 said:


> To date, I have just read TUG and learned.  But, to say that rule changes did not impact value to the non-VIP (or VIP Silver) users.  Well, they did.  Those of us with fewer points, that valued vacation options, used the 3 year pooling process.  In my case, I pooled my points EVERY year to maximize my vacation planning flexibility.  The points deposit feature is a huge downgrade, a value reducer.  Don't suggest that us smaller point holders aren't feeling the pain.  I'm forced now to play games like creating 'phantom reservations' to ensure my deposited points get used first.  And, those Phantom Reservations take RT's which are in short supply for many users.  The search function sucks for all of us.  Let's try not to trivialize what has been lost, we've all lost something.  I'll not trivialize what the mega-renters have lost, please don't trivialize what us small point users have lost.



Has someone confirmed that you have to make a phantom reservation to preserve the ability to move points forward. For instance, all of my points are in the old Credit Pool. I have have no new regular use year point until January 2019. However I can make an ARP reservation in 2018 because the new system thinks points are points. I get 182k ARP in CWA and if I havn't used it I get it as long as I have points no matter where they are. Has someone tested the deposit points into next year feature. For round numbers let say I have 400k per year and I deposit  the 400k into next year, during the first three months of my use year. After doing that I book a 400k reservation for next year, using half my available points. When next rolls around I have this 400k reservation and still have 400k available. Is there any way to know for sure that you wouldn't be able to move those 400k to the following year during the first 3 months of that use year. I don't think anyone could have test that year. And the VC's may not really know. It is possible that knowone knows until someone tries.


----------



## CYRUS2400

markb53 said:


> Has someone confirmed that you have to make a phantom reservation to preserve the ability to move points forward. For instance, all of my points are in the old Credit Pool. I have have no new regular use year point until January 2019. However I can make an ARP reservation in 2018 because the new system thinks points are points. I get 182k ARP in CWA and if I havn't used it I get it as long as I have points no matter where they are. Has someone tested the deposit points into next year feature. For round numbers let say I have 400k per year and I deposit  the 400k into next year, during the first three months of my use year. After doing that I book a 400k reservation for next year, using half my available points. When next rolls around I have this 400k reservation and still have 400k available. Is there any way to know for sure that you wouldn't be able to move those 400k to the following year during the first 3 months of that use year. I don't think anyone could have test that year. And the VC's may not really know. It is possible that knowone knows until someone tries. [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> markb53 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has someone confirmed that you have to make a phantom reservation to preserve the ability to move points forward. For instance, all of my points are in the old Credit Pool. I have have no new regular use year point until January 2019. However I can make an ARP reservation in 2018 because the new system thinks points are points. I get 182k ARP in CWA and if I havn't used it I get it as long as I have points no matter where they are. Has someone tested the deposit points into next year feature. For round numbers let say I have 400k per year and I deposit  the 400k into next year, during the first three months of my use year. After doing that I book a 400k reservation for next year, using half my available points. When next rolls around I have this 400k reservation and still have 400k available. Is there any way to know for sure that you wouldn't be able to move those 400k to the following year during the first 3 months of that use year. I don't think anyone could have test that year. And the VC's may not really know. It is possible that knowone knows until someone tries.
> 
> 
> 
> When I asked a couple weeks ago, after several hours on hold/the phone and several 'hold, let me check', I was told that the deposited points are used AFTER regular use points.  I'm in the process of testing it, LIVE.  I made the phantom reservation for July 2018 using regular 2018 points last weekend.  I plan on depositing 2017 points this week into 2018 (I'm barely Silver).....then next month I'll be booking a reservation for May 2018 that will HOPEFULLY use all remaining 2018 regular use year points, all of the deposited points and 450 points that are currently sitting in the credit pool with an expiration date of 12/27/2019.  Will see what happens, but, can't report success/failure until mid July 2017.
Click to expand...


----------



## ronparise

puppymommo said:


> As a non-VIP owner,  I would say we are impacted less than the VIPs. But we are all affected. I agree with  the person who said that the loss of the 3 year credit pool is significant to the smaller point owners. It gave us much more flexibility, although in 20 years of ownership I only used it once. The difficulty searching and making  reservations impacts us all. It is just a matter of degree. As an under 300k point owner, I only make 1-3 reservations a year. A million point owner making dozens of reservations a year is going to  suffer a whole other degree of  magnitude with the cumbersome search and reserve process of  our "upgraded" website. As CYRUS2400 put it: The search function sucks for all of us.



I wasn't speaking to the website issues at all and I'm not saying the credit pool change isn't a big deal. And I'm not trying to minimize the impact if the new rules on anyone 

I'm only speaking to loss of value. If you see value as the number of vacations you can squeeze out of your ownership,  a platinum VIP owner has lost half  the value of his account, a non VIP owner, not as much. If you define value as the amount of income you can generate from your ownership (as I do) the value of a VIP ownership used to be much more than the value of a non VIP ownership of the same size. Now there is very little difference.


----------



## raygo123

As far as moving points forward, if you deposit the points in November, for the following year, doesn't that make those points expire first? And will they be used first?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## CYRUS2400

raygo123 said:


> As far as moving points forward, if you deposit the points in November, for the following year, doesn't that make those points expire first? And will they be used first?
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


I have 2017 points that I plan on depositing into a future year later this month.  I've taken the deposit 'exchange' process through to payment.  The deposit options are for use year Jan-2018 to Dec-2018 or use year Jan-2019 to Dec-2019.  Unlike with the Credit Pool Process where the date was 3 years from the date I pooled the points, once I make the deposit, those points are ONLY available for reservations in the use year I choose, not before, and they can't be rolled again.  I plan on putting the points into 2018.  And that means, I must use them for reservations in 2018.  I can't use them for a Dec 2017 reservation, they can only be used in 2018.  This part has been discussed in other threads and was confirmed in my conversation with a VC.  I've asked about which points are used first, Regular Use Year Points or Deposited Points and the VC told me that Deposited use points would be used AFTER Regular Use Year Points were exhausted.  This is a REAL negative.  But, this is what I was told.  So, taking advise of other TUG members, I created a Phantom reservation for some of my 2018 regular use year points so as to force the deposited points be used first when I make a real reservation for May 2018 next month.  I'm taking no chances as I plan on losing no points with the new deposit process.  And, yes, I do believe that Wyndham is expecting people to lose points in this deposit process due to lack of information.


----------



## BellaWyn

ronoarise said:
			
		

> The thing works for me and I think most owners. Not as well as it should, but it works.


Remember those Jack-in-box popup toys when you would wind and wind to the music in gleeful anticipation of that moment when the catch would pop, lid would lift wide open, and the goofy clown would jump out?  Then, over time the catch would pop and the lid would barely crack open and you had to manually pull open the lid to let the clown come out.  Then eventually the clown wouldn't come out at all and you had to dig it out to get it to pop up? 

The toy *still worked*, just "not as well as it should."  In the case of the aging toy, our expectations lowered because the toy was aging.  But if we went to the store to get a replacement, and the marketing information on the box said "new and enhanced" we would expect the toy to work as well, or better than, the first time we bought one.  If it didn't, it would be returned to the merchant who would then return it to the manufacturer.  The old, semi-functional toy either got thrown in a corner and went unused, donated to charity or sold in the next yard sale for a penny.

This is a posturing of suggesting we lower our expectations to be satisfied with the semi-functional toy because it still "works" just "not as well as it should" and yet we are still paying full retail for the broken toy. It also infers one represents the perspective of "most owners" when the only current experience is as a non-owner looking through a single owner set of lenses. 

My question is:  Why is it that we keep getting this repeating suggestion that, because our only current option is to lower expectations, one must adapt to being satisfied with only a sem-functional toy?  

Price for the toy has not changed to offset the loss of function. Only the suggestion that our expectations change to adapt and use the broken toy we are now "lucky" to have been given.

What is the underlying motivation that continues to push you to encourage owners to be satisfied with a less functional toy? Surely it goes beyond the posture of "it's their thing." Not enough substance in that to justify the repeating pattern.


----------



## khampster

trying to book out 13 months @ ocean boulevard and have no luck.

it says insufficient CWA governor balance... ? 

anyone experiencing the same issues?


----------



## Bigrob

khampster said:


> trying to book out 13 months @ ocean boulevard and have no luck.
> 
> it says insufficient CWA governor balance... ?
> 
> anyone experiencing the same issues?



You probably don't have enough ARP points available to make the full reservation. Try a shorter stay and if it lets you book (don't have to complete it, just trying to check if this is the issue) then that is probably the issue. If you think you should have enough points, there may be some issue with the way the points have "stacked up".


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> Remember those Jack-in-box popup toys when you would wind and wind to the music in gleeful anticipation of that moment when the catch would pop, lid would lift wide open, and the goofy clown would jump out?  Then, over time the catch would pop and the lid would barely crack open and you had to manually pull open the lid to let the clown come out.  Then eventually the clown wouldn't come out at all and you had to dig it out to get it to pop up?
> 
> The toy *still worked*, just "not as well as it should."  In the case of the aging toy, our expectations lowered because the toy was aging.  But if we went to the store to get a replacement, and the marketing information on the box said "new and enhanced" we would expect the toy to work as well, or better than, the first time we bought one.  If it didn't, it would be returned to the merchant who would then return it to the manufacturer.  The old, semi-functional toy either got thrown in a corner and went unused, donated to charity or sold in the next yard sale for a penny.
> 
> This is a posturing of suggesting we lower our expectations to be satisfied with the semi-functional toy because it still "works" just "not as well as it should" and yet we are still paying full retail for the broken toy. It also infers one represents the perspective of "most owners" when the only current experience is as a non-owner looking through a single owner set of lenses.
> 
> My question is:  Why is it that we keep getting this repeating suggestion that, because our only current option is to lower expectations, one must adapt to being satisfied with only a sem-functional toy?
> 
> Price for the toy has not changed to offset the loss of function. Only the suggestion that our expectations change to adapt and use the broken toy we are now "lucky" to have been given.
> 
> What is the underlying motivation that continues to push you to encourage owners to be satisfied with a less functional toy? Surely it goes beyond the posture of "it's their thing." Not enough substance in that to justify the repeating pattern.




Agree completely. The website dosent work well or at all for some owners and you shouldn't lower your expectations to accept a less than satisfactory website


----------



## Bigrob

The value of all ownerships has been reduced, at least temporarily, by the inability to book reservations using the system (or even by calling in to the VC's, who are hamstrung by the same system.) Let's fact it, not being able to book the reservations you want right now for 2017 stays at National Harbor is ludicrous. It's been over a month since the launch! The inventory should have been readied and testing in the new system multiple times before the site ever went live!

What is the rationale for asserting the value hasn't changed for all owners when:
1. All owners have lost the flexibility to modify a reservation (add a night or subtract a night) - you want to make a change you'll likely lose the reservation.
2. All owners have lost the flexibility of the credit pool
3. Non-VIP owners have seen an increase in costs associated with Reservation Transactions.
4. All owners are stuck with a system that, if possible at all, takes anywhere from 1.5X to 10X to even 100X or more time than the prior system to complete desired transactions
5. All owners are stuck with a VC line where the wait time and ASA (Average Speed to Answer) is measured in hours rather than minutes. 
6. All owners are stuck with a system that is so unstable that no one can truly be confident of a) reservations showing in the account being honored; b) points in the account being correct c) ability to transact (add guest name, cancel reservation, etc.) may or may not be available d) availability being shown is accurate (if you can ever find it at all)

No, I am quite certain the value for all owners has diminished. This may not impact the Wyndham sales machine for new marks, but I do believe it will make for a tougher sale to existing owners, which has been a significant portion of sales historically.

So what compensation should be offered to owners as a result of not being able to make reservations due to the failed website rollout? Rhetorical question, as we already know the answer. The issues aren't even being acknowledged. But owners are losing opportunities to make their desired reservations due to the botched system rollout; this cannot reasonably be denied. Obviously if you lose the opportunity to make the reservation you want, and your points expire worthless as a result, this is a real impact to the value of your points.

Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?


----------



## vacationhopeful

Bigrob said:


> <snip>
> Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?



Charitable donation to a non-profit ... like for homeless former Wyndham timeshare sales staff?

Actually, the more I think about this "Professional and well tested, 6 years in design & development" reservation system ... it is doing exactly what is expected. Elimination of the private rental market by the owners.... large points owners. Wyndham was in the timeshare "build and sell" business before ... now Wyndham seems to be transitioning MORE into the "Rental" market.

Why spend the corporate profits when you just need to change the reservation rules .... and get BILLIONS of Wyndham points dumped back for FREE into the Wyndham inventory for Extra Holidays rentals?

And I still don't believe the US economy is back to the "hay days" of decade ago.

PS Wyndham: remember, refurbishing resorts costs LOTS of money ... aka Special Assessments would not be paid by YOUR renters. And YOUR rentals will be much harder on resorts than almost any owner... with shorter stays, more guests per unit, more disputed charges and more lawsuits.


----------



## ronparise

Bigrob said:


> The value of all ownerships has been reduced, at least temporarily, by the inability to book reservations using the system (or even by calling in to the VC's, who are hamstrung by the same system.) Let's fact it, not being able to book the reservations you want right now for 2017 stays at National Harbor is ludicrous. It's been over a month since the launch! The inventory should have been readied and testing in the new system multiple times before the site ever went live!
> 
> What is the rationale for asserting the value hasn't changed for all owners when:
> 1. All owners have lost the flexibility to modify a reservation (add a night or subtract a night) - you want to make a change you'll likely lose the reservation.
> 2. All owners have lost the flexibility of the credit pool
> 3. Non-VIP owners have seen an increase in costs associated with Reservation Transactions.
> 4. All owners are stuck with a system that, if possible at all, takes anywhere from 1.5X to 10X to even 100X or more time than the prior system to complete desired transactions
> 5. All owners are stuck with a VC line where the wait time and ASA (Average Speed to Answer) is measured in hours rather than minutes.
> 6. All owners are stuck with a system that is so unstable that no one can truly be confident of a) reservations showing in the account being honored; b) points in the account being correct c) ability to transact (add guest name, cancel reservation, etc.) may or may not be available d) availability being shown is accurate (if you can ever find it at all)
> 
> No, I am quite certain the value for all owners has diminished. This may not impact the Wyndham sales machine for new marks, but I do believe it will make for a tougher sale to existing owners, which has been a significant portion of sales historically.
> 
> So what compensation should be offered to owners as a result of not being able to make reservations due to the failed website rollout? Rhetorical question, as we already know the answer. The issues aren't even being acknowledged. But owners are losing opportunities to make their desired reservations due to the botched system rollout; this cannot reasonably be denied. Obviously if you lose the opportunity to make the reservation you want, and your points expire worthless as a result, this is a real impact to the value of your points.
> 
> Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?




Call me naive but I believe  the website mess to temporary. And of no lasting impact

Wyndham moved from an emphasis on new customer sales to upgrades during the Great Recession. Now they are moving back to a greater emphasis on new customers. 

The hook for new sales can still be the discounts. I don't know what they are going to pitch to existing owners unless they do what they do when selling Worldmark. Push the use of points for all your vacation needs, airfare, car rentals etc. You know what they say over there. Spend points and they renew every year, spend cash and it's gone forever.


----------



## 55plus

Bigrob said:


> Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?


I don't believe there will be a completely new hook. Sales weasels will continue to lie like they have been since the beginning of timeshares. They'll still talk about renting to pay maintenance fee, cancel & rebook, etc. Wyndham will go after new marks (customers). Like today, most of those who buy don't know about resell. The same goes for the piece of crap website. By the time they realize it's an abortion and very time consuming it'll be too late to rescind.


----------



## Sandi Bo

Anybody with an IT background thing this website mess is temporary?

There are too many significant issues.  They took an awfully long time to deliver this mess.  I see no evidence they have the skills to fix it.


----------



## Sandy VDH

Temporary yes, in the fact they HAVE to fix it, it is not working consistently and business rules should be enforced and working.  for example, well upgrades are a business rules, yet that is not working very well.  

Problem is how long is Temporary. 

If it took them 7 years to produce this, how long is it going to be to fix it.  Honestly I do not know the history of the 7 year development, but I can't image that they just now produced something they have been working on that long.  I just think this is the latest version, a version that wasn't abandoned.


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> The old Ron was criticized on the WMowners website for being a little too pro wyndham.
> I dont think I ever was too critical of the company or the way they managed the club, except for their sales practices.
> 
> and the point you make regarding their obligation to manage the trust for OUR benefit, not theirs,  Is the point Ive been trying to make here. Whether its true or not I think wyndham can make the case that they have managed the club for the benefit of the owners. At least you will have a difficult task to prove otherwise.
> 
> Right now I am working with a non VIP owner  to try to extract some value from their ownership under the new rules. Except for  difficult searches and the missing inventory at some resorts,  I have been able to use the new website.. Points totals are accurate,  we paid mf online, and made reservations and added guests... The thing works for me and I think most owners. Not as well as it should, but it works.


I disagree with you on all three points. You are acting different and others have also said the same. Wyndham's failure to perform is in the failure of the new system and their obligations, not anything to do with the rules at this point. Losing points, shutting out owners, using excess inventory for THEIR profit while others have no access and failing to make available inventory available to dues paying members (I have confirmed at two resorts where inventory is available but not in the system. In fact I did a walk up reservation with discount at one resort this past weekend). Finally I too have made well since the conversion. I don't do rentals much but there is one resort I have done a few. two weeks after the conversion I found tons of inventory on line. I booked 12 weeks of inventory. Then I rented 8 weeks of 1 br upgrades to 3br units and as of this week I have rented out all but 1 for a profit of $16,455.

Even though I have found an upside, I am still of the legal opinion that Wyndham is not serving the trust as much as they are intending to serve themselves and their future sales and I feel very confident that if they do not get this resolved, they will find themselves in legal trouble. When acting in a trust capacity the courts expect you to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of the trust. I do not think ANYONE can argue an example where Wyndham has done that. They are not and should not be considered a trust manager but rather a program manager, paid in a for profit environment. The problem for them is that this is NOT the role the have been ascribed.

But hey - that's why Baskin Robbins has so many flavors of ice cream, you don't have to agree and yet I can still be right, as can you.


----------



## ilya

Bigrob said:


> The value of all ownerships has been reduced, at least temporarily, by the inability to book reservations using the system (or even by calling in to the VC's, who are hamstrung by the same system.) Let's fact it, not being able to book the reservations you want right now for 2017 stays at National Harbor is ludicrous. It's been over a month since the launch! The inventory should have been readied and testing in the new system multiple times before the site ever went live!
> 
> What is the rationale for asserting the value hasn't changed for all owners when:
> 1. All owners have lost the flexibility to modify a reservation (add a night or subtract a night) - you want to make a change you'll likely lose the reservation.
> 2. All owners have lost the flexibility of the credit pool
> 3. Non-VIP owners have seen an increase in costs associated with Reservation Transactions.
> 4. All owners are stuck with a system that, if possible at all, takes anywhere from 1.5X to 10X to even 100X or more time than the prior system to complete desired transactions
> 5. All owners are stuck with a VC line where the wait time and ASA (Average Speed to Answer) is measured in hours rather than minutes.
> 6. All owners are stuck with a system that is so unstable that no one can truly be confident of a) reservations showing in the account being honored; b) points in the account being correct c) ability to transact (add guest name, cancel reservation, etc.) may or may not be available d) availability being shown is accurate (if you can ever find it at all)
> 
> No, I am quite certain the value for all owners has diminished. This may not impact the Wyndham sales machine for new marks, but I do believe it will make for a tougher sale to existing owners, which has been a significant portion of sales historically.
> 
> So what compensation should be offered to owners as a result of not being able to make reservations due to the failed website rollout? Rhetorical question, as we already know the answer. The issues aren't even being acknowledged. But owners are losing opportunities to make their desired reservations due to the botched system rollout; this cannot reasonably be denied. Obviously if you lose the opportunity to make the reservation you want, and your points expire worthless as a result, this is a real impact to the value of your points.
> 
> Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?



Not to mention the ability to have a instant upgrade when there is one available , or for that matter, being able to complete a reservation. I am sure if you bought a $100,000 car and it was not reliable I would say your value was diminished. Anyone who suggest otherwise has a different agenda..


----------



## famy27

Bigrob said:


> The value of all ownerships has been reduced, at least temporarily, by the inability to book reservations using the system (or even by calling in to the VC's, who are hamstrung by the same system.) Let's fact it, not being able to book the reservations you want right now for 2017 stays at National Harbor is ludicrous. It's been over a month since the launch! The inventory should have been readied and testing in the new system multiple times before the site ever went live!
> 
> What is the rationale for asserting the value hasn't changed for all owners when:
> 1. All owners have lost the flexibility to modify a reservation (add a night or subtract a night) - you want to make a change you'll likely lose the reservation.
> 2. All owners have lost the flexibility of the credit pool
> 3. Non-VIP owners have seen an increase in costs associated with Reservation Transactions.
> 4. All owners are stuck with a system that, if possible at all, takes anywhere from 1.5X to 10X to even 100X or more time than the prior system to complete desired transactions
> 5. All owners are stuck with a VC line where the wait time and ASA (Average Speed to Answer) is measured in hours rather than minutes.
> 6. All owners are stuck with a system that is so unstable that no one can truly be confident of a) reservations showing in the account being honored; b) points in the account being correct c) ability to transact (add guest name, cancel reservation, etc.) may or may not be available d) availability being shown is accurate (if you can ever find it at all)
> 
> No, I am quite certain the value for all owners has diminished. This may not impact the Wyndham sales machine for new marks, but I do believe it will make for a tougher sale to existing owners, which has been a significant portion of sales historically.
> 
> So what compensation should be offered to owners as a result of not being able to make reservations due to the failed website rollout? Rhetorical question, as we already know the answer. The issues aren't even being acknowledged. But owners are losing opportunities to make their desired reservations due to the botched system rollout; this cannot reasonably be denied. Obviously if you lose the opportunity to make the reservation you want, and your points expire worthless as a result, this is a real impact to the value of your points.
> 
> Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?



100% on #6. I made a reservation for Thanksgiving weekend at Glacier Canyon the day after the new system went live. I am not the least bit confident of it being honored. I check here every few days to see if anyone has had reservations cancelled on them. All of the stories of revoked upgrades fill me with dread. This is not the normal way that booking a vacation reservation should work. When I make my DVC reservations, I have no concern that they won't be honored. I know that I'll get what's been promised to me. The same cannot be said for Wyndham, and that definitely devalues my ownership.


----------



## chapjim

ronparise said:


> Call me naive but I believe  the website mess to temporary. And of no lasting impact
> 
> Wyndham moved from an emphasis on new customer sales to upgrades during the Great Recession. Now they are moving back to a greater emphasis on new customers.
> 
> The hook for new sales can still be the discounts. I don't know what they are going to pitch to existing owners unless they do what they do when selling Worldmark. Push the use of points for all your vacation needs, airfare, car rentals etc. You know what they say over there. Spend points and they renew every year, spend cash and it's gone forever.



You mean cash, as in maintenance fees, that allow the points to renew every year?   WM sales really uses that nonsense?  And gets away with it?


----------



## markb53

ronparise said:


> Spend points and they renew every year, spend cash and it's gone forever.



I've heard that one plenty of times at a Wyndham "owner updates" I just laugh in their face. I mean I've paid real money that's gone forever for those point. Right I'm going to spend $1500.00 worth of points to a fight to New York. Oh, but they will renew again next year. Not if I don't pay for them they won't. Just too funny. I spent a good part of my life traveling to Renaissance fairs, selling a product that for sure nobody needed for lots of money. You are selling a life style not the specs of what you are selling. I really believe that Wyndham could sell the product without lying about it. I've done probably about 15 owner update since I've been a Wyndham owner. I've had 2 sales people that were being straight with me.


----------



## BellaWyn

Sandi Bo said:


> *Anybody with an IT background think this website mess is temporary?*
> 
> There are too many significant issues.  They took an awfully long time to deliver this mess.  I see no evidence they have the skills to fix it.


Well, since "temporary" is subjective..... * ---->>* 

The last time we were told it was a "temporary" situation it took 17 months to fix the problem.

Suspended owners were told the audits would "temporarily" lock their accounts.  10 months later some are still unresolved with no completions on their audits.

Owners with issues currently in the black hole of Triage are still waiting for some elusive moment, couched in the reference of "temporary" to get problems resolved.

Have an IT background so to answer your original question...  sure, based on WYN's known history of how immediate messes like this get fixed, it is a "temporary" problem according to the illusion that surrounds the word.  Temporary is a non-specific, open-ended spin to hold disillusioned owners at bay.  

*Do I think this website mess will be resolved anytime SOON?*  Not a chance in hell.  Problems are too layered and, as you say, skill sets of those assigned to fix are.......  lacking, at best.


----------



## Roger830

What I find disheartening is basic functions work ok at times, then don't work at other times, such as cancelling or upgrading.

Usually when after going live you find a bug when someone does something out of the ordinary.
A typical example I experienced was when a sales order was entered with a seldom used promotion code. The order entered ok, but when a line on the order was cancelled, the transaction wasn't completely reversed.
This promotion feature was overlooked in the testing done by the sales department. The bug required one simple line of code in a program that was purchased for six figures.


----------



## ronparise

markb53 said:


> I've heard that one plenty of times at a





BellaWyn said:


> Well, since "temporary" is subjective..... * ---->>*
> 
> The last time we were told it was a "temporary" situation it took 17 months to fix the problem.
> 
> Suspended owners were told the audits would "temporarily" lock their accounts.  10 months later some are still unresolved with no completions on their audits.
> 
> Owners with issues currently in the black hole of Triage are still waiting for some elusive moment, couched in the reference of "temporary" to get problems resolved.
> 
> Have an IT background so to answer your original question...  sure, based on WYN's known history of how immediate messes like this get fixed, it is a "temporary" problem according to the illusion that surrounds the word.  Temporary is a non-specific, open-ended spin to hold disillusioned owners at bay.
> 
> *Do I think this website mess will be resolved anytime SOON?*  Not a chance in hell.  Problems are too layered and, as you say, skill sets of those assigned to fix are.......  lacking, at best.



it seems that we agree on this . we have a mess and its going to take a long time to get it right  As someone with an IT background; If you were dropped into the middle of this would you be able to place a time certain for the fix? 

 first they have to get  things working as designed (like the auto upgrade feature)  and then they will have to correct the poor design features (most notably the search functions) I have no doubt that these things are going to get fixed.. but I dont know when. As you say  not "soon"..  I used the word temporary... what word would you suggest?


I dont disagree with anything that you say. I never have. Im equally outraged.  Unfortunately, outrage wont fix anything  
The question is what can we do about it?  What do you suggest?


----------



## rickandcindy23

Duplicate post.


----------



## rickandcindy23

We have one reservation at GD for this week, confirmed into a 2 bed lockoff, upgraded and showing as upgraded in the system, but the client called Grand Desert.  They say it's a one bedroom only.  Rick has been on hold with Wyndham for 1.5 hours so far, trying to get this resolved for our guest.  

Wyndham is a mess.


----------



## rickandcindy23

After Rick was on hold for 2.25 hours, we have a case opened.  Be aware, all of you mega renters, many recent upgrades were bogus, and there is a good chance your guests will arrive to their check-in date and find out their reservations were not upgraded.  That is what one of the guides (won't mention her name) told us today.  Thousands of upgrades from smaller units (right after the new system came live) were upgraded without upgrades available.


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:
			
		

> As someone with an IT background; If you were dropped into the middle of this would you be able to place a time certain for the fix?


1) Generally, IT people do not get "dropped into the middle" of a project that has been months or years in the design and planning

2) If they do, they are there to fix a plethoria of bad before a system goes live because the skill levels of the team were not getting the job done in the first place

3) Any qualified IT person worth their salt, especially a high level fixer, would not want their name or reputation attached to a broken rollout

4) A fixer brought in after the rollout.....  shut it down or RUN.

There is NO professional IT team that has been brought on after the fact.   We live with the skill sets of the team that rolled it out in the first place.  Your question has no point.  It is a deflection. *Uncertain timelines were built into the equation the moment that they knowingly allowed a dysfunctional system to go live,* which speaks to intent.

We agree in the respect that the dysfunctional product we now have is cumbersome and less than optimal.  But it seems to stop there.

You, the NON-owner who no longer must pay MF's to use a broken toy being touted as "enhanced" postures as "it works, just not as well as it should" which spins as "meh.... oh well, live with what you have people" while at the same time suggesting there is no ill intent and motivation is to primarily make owners happy.

Me, an OWNER, still having to pay MF's for the broken toy that continues to be promoted as "enhanced" continues to express the same frustration, outrage and disillusion as other PAYING owners.  I see it as a massive disservice to ALL owners, which in no way reflects a management group that wants happy customer base. More like it screams "don't really care."

Your repeating mantra is "what are you going to do about it"  which smacks similar to the same posturing we are getting from WYN, both knowing there is very little owners CAN do about it at this juncture.   Suggesting that owners not lower our expectations, while at the same time posturing "work with what we have even though it is broken" are positions with cross purposes.

Baskin Robbins selection of opinion as Happy put it.  You can put all the sprinkles and toppings to make the vanilla seem different but at the base, it is still vanilla.  Or just go with the Colorado brownies if you really want to get a sense of what "enhanced" could look like.


----------



## Jan M.

I don't have IT background but here is my opinion based on common sense. We know about the lost reservations, cancelled upgrades and overall inventory mess at some of the resorts so it would be insane to attempt anything that might result in more problems at this time. I think Wyndham will need to/should wait until after Labor Day when travel slows down considerably and then shut down for 48 hours to get things fixed.  And after a few days or a week to see how things are working if they need to shut down a second time for a day or so that wouldn't be a big deal.

The next time they have a shut down and announce that the will site will be closed until a certain time they should also announce and enforce that anyone accessing their account prior to that time and making reservations or getting upgrades will have them cancelled. It seems to me that dealing with that mess has tied up a great deal time for owner care and IT that could have and should have been spent fixing the real problems not the ones created by the owners who shouldn't have been accessing the system yet. That is on Wyndham not the owners.

I didn't have any reservations I really needed to be making when I couldn't access my account until late Friday going into Memorial Day weekend but I find myself in complete agreement with OP who have said that it is grossly unfair to the large number of owners who were locked out for 5-6 days while other owners were able to book prime inventory for this summer and use their ARP for the same for next summer. When the new system came online IT certainly knew there was a large number of owners who were unable to access the system and they very likely reported that among other things.

I don't think there is anything anyone can say that would convince me and many OP that the corporate executives who had the final say in the decision to implement the new system at this time weren't warned of the expected problems. I believe that: 1. Those decision makers didn't have a clue as to how bad the problems would be. 2. They thought any problems could be easily fixed within a few days. 3. They've learned the hard way that there is a great deal more to implementing  and fixing a new system than ordering their alchemists (aka the IT department) to turn lead (aka this p.o.s. system) into gold.


----------



## BellaWyn

rickandcindy23 said:


> After Rick was on hold for 2.25 hours, we have a case opened.  Be aware, all of you mega renters, many recent upgrades were bogus, and there is a good chance your guests will arrive to their check-in date and find out their reservations were not upgraded.  That is what one of the guides (won't mention her name) told us today.  Thousands of upgrades from smaller units (right after the new system came live) were upgraded without upgrades available.


Cindy, in the convos with the rep did you get a sense of whether the bogus upgrades, post-rollout, were due to bad coding in the reservation system or intentional (aka by design) to frustrate the rental process? 

Regardless, still speaks to the unreliable system we are stuck having to navigate.


----------



## scootr5

Jan M. said:


> The next time they have a shut down and announce that the will site will be closed until a certain time they should also announce and enforce that anyone accessing their account prior to that time and making reservations or getting upgrades will have them cancelled.



IMHO, we should not have to worry about whether the transactions we are performing while utilizing the site are "valid". If the site is up and live, there should never be a question about it.

People don't always receive the email announcements for one reason or another, or remember timing of things.


----------



## Jan M.

scootr5 said:


> IMHO, we should not have to worry about whether the transactions we are performing while utilizing the site are "valid". If the site is up and live, there should never be a question about it.
> 
> People don't always receive the email announcements for one reason or another, or remember timing of things.



There are advisories at the top of the screen when we log in and it is certainly possible to have warnings that everyone can see. When you are told not to do something, no means no.

People were told that the website would not be available until 8am on Monday morning if I remember correctly but like with any shut down they've had it was always possible to access the website sooner. The Wyndham booking system has always favored the rule breakers in the past so why would anyone expect this time to be different. Except that Wyndham seems to be making it very clear that there is a new sheriff in town.

A friend texted me on that infamous Sunday night that people were already on the website, making reservations and getting upgrades. I said then that it would be extremely foolish to trust that inventory and make plans with other people, book airline reservations that couldn't be cancelled without penalty or rent the stays. I didn't even try to log on after I got the text that was how sure I was it was going to be a mess and I didn't want to be tempted to book something.


----------



## rickandcindy23

What is really bad about this situation with the upgrades, especially at Grand Desert, is there are three of them that were upgraded and show as upgrade in our account, but they aren't honoring the upgrades at the resort because they don't have enough larger units to accommodate them.  So it will show on your end as upgraded, but it is not upgraded at the resort.  The resort will show a 1 bed deluxe or suite, not the 2 bedroom you think you have.  This happened with THREE of ours.  And guess what?  These were upgraded BEFORE the new system rollout, and they were instant upgrades.


----------



## Jan M.

rickandcindy23 said:


> What is really bad about this situation with the upgrades, especially at Grand Desert, is there are three of them that were upgraded and show as upgrade in our account, but they aren't honoring the upgrades at the resort because they don't have enough larger units to accommodate them.  So it will show on your end as upgraded, but it is not upgraded at the resort.  The resort will show a 1 bed deluxe or suite, not the 2 bedroom you think you have.  This happened with THREE of ours.  And guess what?  These were upgraded BEFORE the new system rollout, and they were instant upgrades.



You would have to assume that OP were able to book that inventory after the new system took over which is why it is no longer available. So what is the criteria for who gets the reservation? You would think that the oldest reservations, those made prior to the change over, would be honored first.

The problems with the inventory are a result of the change over and certainly they backed up or printed out all that reservation information prior to the change over just in case. I find it very hard to believe no one in IT did that nor that the resort managers are so incompetent that they didn't do it.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Jan M. said:


> ..... I find it very hard to believe no one in IT did that nor that the resort managers are so incompetent that they didn't do it.



IT should have had backups ... because that is their JOB.

Resort Managers are TRAINED to trust the computer system. It is EITHER an "ONLINE and LIVE system" or is a "DAILY DOWNLOAD to resort's computers". Resort managers are hospitality people .. trained to USE the computer for checking guest and checking out guests. If a unit is place "OUT OF ORDER", the resort staff can try & adjust OR use a not booked unit. And YES, different (nonWyndham) resort staffs have called me and ASKED, about a upcoming week is available for a swap.


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> 1) Generally, IT people do not get "dropped into the middle" of a project that has been months or years in the design and planning
> 
> 2) If they do, they are there to fix a plethoria of bad before a system goes live because the skill levels of the team were not getting the job done in the first place
> 
> 3) Any qualified IT person worth their salt, especially a high level fixer, would not want their name or reputation attached to a broken rollout
> 
> 4) A fixer brought in after the rollout.....  shut it down or RUN.
> 
> There is NO professional IT team that has been brought on after the fact.   We live with the skill sets of the team that rolled it out in the first place.  Your question has no point.  It is a deflection. *Uncertain timelines were built into the equation the moment that they knowingly allowed a dysfunctional system to go live,* which speaks to intent.
> 
> We agree in the respect that the dysfunctional product we now have is cumbersome and less than optimal.  But it seems to stop there.
> 
> You, the NON-owner who no longer must pay MF's to use a broken toy being touted as "enhanced" postures as "it works, just not as well as it should" which spins as "meh.... oh well, live with what you have people" while at the same time suggesting there is no ill intent and motivation is to primarily make owners happy.
> 
> Me, an OWNER, still having to pay MF's for the broken toy that continues to be promoted as "enhanced" continues to express the same frustration, outrage and disillusion as other PAYING owners.  I see it as a massive disservice to ALL owners, which in no way reflects a management group that wants happy customer base. More like it screams "don't really care."
> 
> Your repeating mantra is "what are you going to do about it"  which smacks similar to the same posturing we are getting from WYN, both knowing there is very little owners CAN do about it at this juncture.   Suggesting that owners not lower our expectations, while at the same time posturing "work with what we have even though it is broken" are positions with cross purposes.
> 
> Baskin Robbins selection of opinion as Happy put it.  You can put all the sprinkles and toppings to make the vanilla seem different but at the base, it is still vanilla.  Or just go with the Colorado brownies if you really want to get a sense of what "enhanced" could look like.



I didnt think you or anybody could do any better than to say the problems with the website are "temporary" 
you have made it clear that that saying this is a "temporary" problem is not acceptable. And you have made it clear that you extensive experience  fixing things such as this. 

The point of my question is simple. If you, the acknowledged expert here on all things IT,  couldnt (if you were responsible for the fix) tell us how long the fix would take;  I dont think you can expect the folks at Wyndham to be able to do it.

I think my experience with Wyndham and my status as a  non owner, or interested bystander gives me a perspective on this that you are lacking. and leads me to this question? 
Given that the new website dosent work What else can you do? other than to wait it out


----------



## Bigrob

ronparise said:


> I didnt think you or anybody could do any better than to say the problems with the website are "temporary"
> you have made it clear that that saying this is a "temporary" problem is not acceptable. And you have made it clear that you extensive experience  fixing things such as this.
> 
> The point of my question is simple. If you, the acknowledged expert here on all things IT,  couldnt (if you were responsible for the fix) tell us how long the fix would take;  I dont think you can expect the folks at Wyndham to be able to do it.
> 
> I think my experience with Wyndham and my status as a  non owner, or interested bystander gives me a perspective on this that you are lacking. and leads me to this question?
> Given that the new website dosent work What else can you do? other than to wait it out



BellaWyn may be an IT expert, but she has not had her hands deep in the bowels of the Wyndham "Voyager" (a.k.a. "TRIP") code (yes, that is apparently the new moniker for the system being used internally). If BellaWyn had been the PM over this IT project for the past 18 months, no doubt there would be a bit more clarity on what could get fixed when. (But more importantly the rollout would probably not have happened when it did as it would not have passed any IT Professional's Production Readiness Review (PRR)). 

Given that there is a large backlog of trouble tickets right now, and that the triage process is no doubt prioritizing the fixing that "impact the many", and that the focus in on data integrity first, features second... I think we would see inventory load (resort integration) before we will see a fix to the broken search feature. I think we can expect to see broad features addressed rather than individual user issues - urgent issues will have to be handled by exception process/manual process. For example; there is something broken with my account setup. Two of the 3 accounts I have full access to, but the 3rd I cannot revise reservations (cancel, add guests, etc.) They are supporting me via an exception process. IF they had the resources to provide the IT/automated fix for this, it would be far less costly. But they don't. So instead I spend hours a day waiting to talk to an overloaded VC or OC rep; if I get the wrong one it wastes my time and theirs while we try to get a more "senior" rep; if all goes well (i.e., I am not disconnect after waiting 2 hours) I generally can get a guest name added. 

Even assuming my time is worthless and doesn't count, that is a very large expense to fix a single problem. And I have several a week, as do many others (obviously). "Fixing" the problems this way is a very costly process, and guess who pays for it?

But I think a fundamental point is still being missed. The thought that a "temporary" problem means it somehow doesn't impact value is erroneous. If because of the "temporary" problem - whether that problem is a week, a month, or half a year or more - you miss the opportunity to use your points as you would otherwise without a broken system - that is a degradation of value. 

So you see, fundamentally what has happened is a reduction in value for the vast majority of owners at the same time the cost for these "support services" has gone through the roof. (Yes, someone is paying the bill for all that overtime. Guess what is going to happen to your CWP fees?)

The "what to do about it" is obvious. Go to tugbbs.org and express your vitriol. Perhaps Wyndham is counting on none of the seasoned owners being able to book a vacation so they can't "taint the pool of eligible marks" being brought in with all the new availability at Extra Holidays that has been confiscated from owners paying maintenance fees yet are unable to book resort stays. Us complaining to each other on this site is clearly the answer (cue sarcastic eye roll).


----------



## chapjim

Bigrob said:


> BellaWyn may be an IT expert, but she has not had her hands deep in the bowels of the Wyndham "Voyager" (a.k.a. "TRIP") code (yes, that is apparently the new moniker for the system being used internally). If BellaWyn had been the PM over this IT project for the past 18 months, no doubt there would be a bit more clarity on what could get fixed when. (But more importantly the rollout would probably not have happened when it did as it would not have passed any IT Professional's Production Readiness Review (PRR)).
> 
> Given that there is a large backlog of trouble tickets right now, and that the triage process is no doubt prioritizing the fixing that "impact the many", and that the focus in on data integrity first, features second... I think we would see inventory load (resort integration) before we will see a fix to the broken search feature. I think we can expect to see broad features addressed rather than individual user issues - urgent issues will have to be handled by exception process/manual process. For example; there is something broken with my account setup. Two of the 3 accounts I have full access to, but the 3rd I cannot revise reservations (cancel, add guests, etc.) They are supporting me via an exception process. IF they had the resources to provide the IT/automated fix for this, it would be far less costly. But they don't. So instead I spend hours a day waiting to talk to an overloaded VC or OC rep; if I get the wrong one it wastes my time and theirs while we try to get a more "senior" rep; if all goes well (i.e., I am not disconnect after waiting 2 hours) I generally can get a guest name added.
> 
> Even assuming my time is worthless and doesn't count, that is a very large expense to fix a single problem. And I have several a week, as do many others (obviously). "Fixing" the problems this way is a very costly process, and guess who pays for it?
> 
> But I think a fundamental point is still being missed. The thought that a "temporary" problem means it somehow doesn't impact value is erroneous. If because of the "temporary" problem - whether that problem is a week, a month, or half a year or more - you miss the opportunity to use your points as you would otherwise without a broken system - that is a degradation of value.
> 
> So you see, fundamentally what has happened is a reduction in value for the vast majority of owners at the same time the cost for these "support services" has gone through the roof. (Yes, someone is paying the bill for all that overtime. Guess what is going to happen to your CWP fees?)
> 
> The "what to do about it" is obvious. Go to tugbbs.org and express your vitriol. Perhaps Wyndham is counting on none of the seasoned owners being able to book a vacation so they can't "taint the pool of eligible marks" being brought in with all the new availability at Extra Holidays that has been confiscated from owners paying maintenance fees yet are unable to book resort stays. Us complaining to each other on this site is clearly the answer (cue sarcastic eye roll).



The only problem I see with this post is that it was written by someone capable of rational, logical thought.  Since Wyndham hasn't shown much of that lately, most of what Bigrob says is probably exactly NOT what will happen.


----------



## BellaWyn

Bigrob said:


> BellaWyn may be an IT expert, but she has not had her hands deep in the bowels of the Wyndham "Voyager" (*a.k.a. "TRIP" *) code (yes, that is apparently the new moniker for the system being used internally). If BellaWyn had been the PM over this IT project for the past 18 months, no doubt there would be a bit more clarity on what could get fixed when. (But more importantly the rollout would probably not have happened when it did as it would not have passed any IT Professional's Production Readiness Review (PRR)). <snip>



Have no desire to even penetrate the dermis of the Voyager code much less jump into the bowels (but I know plenty of others that would love a peek).  There are parasites in those bowels that are terrifying to consider.  The "expert" part was Ron's spin on my "_have an IT background._"  Does not translate to "expert."  That was pure snark to twist the conversation to his point.  

IT has as many branched specialities as legal, medical, financial and other professions requiring education and certification. However, having BEEN a PM on numerous IT projects and having had to BETA test a plethora of systems (many of which broke in the BETA), Eric is right, the Voyager rollout, as it stands, would have never happened if an experienced, qualified PM had been asked to "sign off" on the product we are now experiencing. 




Bigrob said:


> <snip>
> The "what to do about it" is obvious. Go to tugbbs.*com* and express your vitriol. Perhaps Wyndham is counting on none of the seasoned owners being able to book a vacation so they can't "taint the pool of eligible marks" being brought in with all the new availability at Extra Holidays that has been confiscated from owners paying maintenance fees yet are unable to book resort stays. *Us complaining to each other on this site is clearly the answer (cue sarcastic eye roll).*


  Yep!  

Actually, TUG serves a much higher purpose than just a place spew annoyances and frustration (albeit *related to Voyager - vitriol is a well placed alchemy*).  TUG captures and archives information.  Owners come here to get information on how to use their ownerships and get updated on changes to systems, rules, tips, tricks and clarity of understanding.  There are dedicated posters that are putting up screen shots and shared experiences of what is working vs what is not working.  These generously serve other owners coming to visit us.  When faced with limited options to obtain resolution, at least getting validation for the frustrations one experiences can be cathartic.  

The fact that so MUCH is not working, right now, is just the "order of the day" and the complaints, shared stories and conversations (for good and bad) is merely the online version of poolside conversation.  

Except that we can go back and revisit the conversations as often as we feel necessary. 

Oh, and the ability to skip over (or ignore) the unnecessary diatribe that we don't want to have to re-read.  Bonus!


----------



## Jae1242

rickandcindy23 said:


> After Rick was on hold for 2.25 hours, we have a case opened.  Be aware, all of you mega renters, many recent upgrades were bogus, and there is a good chance your guests will arrive to their check-in date and find out their reservations were not upgraded.  That is what one of the guides (won't mention her name) told us today.  Thousands of upgrades from smaller units (right after the new system came live) were upgraded without upgrades available.



How do you explain this to your guest? I'm sure they were very upset. I had a case opened last week that is still unresolved. Wyndham IT cancelled a reservation in error.  The reservation is coming up end of this week!! I can't sit on hold hours at a time!


----------



## wanderround

All my searches return the spinning wheel of death or a blank screen. Is anybody else having this problem? It's been doing this for at least 12 hours and I've tried multiple computers and browsers.


----------



## Sandi Bo

wanderround said:


> All my searches return the spinning wheel of death or a blank screen. Is anybody else having this problem? It's been doing this for at least 12 hours and I've tried multiple computers and browsers.


Earlier that was happening to me (2:30 am CT).  About 4am the calendar wasn't working, still wasn't working about 10 min ago. I just logged off and back on and it is working now.  Obviously you've been logging off an on - maybe they just fixed it?  Good luck.


----------



## joanncanary

BellaWyn I am with you. I am also in IT but something that no one has mentioned here is how upper management that has NO clue as to the workings of specific programs will make a decision that it has a deadline and "hell or high water" will not postpone it anymore. I think that is what happened here. there was an uneducated deadline date placed on this rollout and no matter how much IT programmers may have fought it, they lost. From what I can see they have a large task ahead of them and I wonder how many of the original designers or PM are still there.  Hopefully we can be patient and little by little things will start to get straightened out.


----------



## ronparise

joanncanary said:


> BellaWyn I am with you. I am also in IT but something that no one has mentioned here is how upper management that has NO clue as to the workings of specific programs will make a decision that it has a deadline and "hell or high water" will not postpone it anymore. I think that is what happened here. there was an uneducated deadline date placed on this rollout and no matter how much IT programmers may have fought it, they lost. From what I can see they have a large task ahead of them and I wonder how many of the original designers or PM are still there.  Hopefully we can be patient and little by little things will start to get straightened out.




I think the patience bank is pretty much depleted


----------



## 55plus

wanderround said:


> All my searches return the spinning wheel of death or a blank screen. Is anybody else having this problem? It's been doing this for at least 12 hours and I've tried multiple computers and browsers.


That happens to me  yesterday. Really pissed me off. It works today.


----------



## 55plus

Wyndham has Apps for all their ventures except for us, WVR. They have some Apps under Club Wyndham, but they are for their rental businesses like Extra Holidays, etc. It would be easier, not that anything associated with the piece of crap website they crammed down our throats is easy and simple, for owners to search and book on a platform designed for an iPad, etc., than web based website on a Mobil device. But then why make anything easy for those who are paying them to work for us and maintain the systems. Go figure?


----------



## ronparise

55plus said:


> Wyndham has Apps for all their ventures except for us, WVR. They have some Apps under Club Wyndham, but they are for their rental businesses like Extra Holidays, etc. It would be easier, not that anything associated with the piece of crap website they crammed down our throats is easy and simple, for owners to search and book on a platform designed for an iPad, etc., than web based website on a Mobil device. But then why make anything easy for those who are paying them to work for us and maintain the systems. Go figure?


So you are suggesting that the incompetent Wyndham IT dept undertake another difficult task at the same time they are trying to fix the current mess

Fyi I have no trouble using the website on my i phone or  iPad it works just as well as on my laptop.


----------



## paxsarah

55plus said:


> Wyndham has Apps for all their ventures except for us, WVR. They have some Apps under Club Wyndham, but they are for their rental businesses like Extra Holidays, etc. It would be easier, not that anything associated with the piece of crap website they crammed down our throats is easy and simple, for owners to search and book on a platform designed for an iPad, etc., than web based website on a Mobil device. But then why make anything easy for those who are paying them to work for us and maintain the systems. Go figure?



I'm sure an app would be fairly simple to build assuming the database it pulls from is properly populated with no errors, and the business processes are well defined. Since none of that is happening, and the website that's supposed to connect owners with their data is full of its own errors (even beyond the data issues), I'm thinking that Wyndham has months of priorities to go before it's even worth mentioning an app.


----------



## wed100105

wanderround said:


> All my searches return the spinning wheel of death or a blank screen. Is anybody else having this problem? It's been doing this for at least 12 hours and I've tried multiple computers and browsers.



I am having the same problem 10:37 CST.


----------



## BellaWyn

joanncanary said:


> BellaWyn I am with you. I am also in IT but something that no one has mentioned here is how upper management that has NO clue as to the workings of specific programs will make a decision that it has a deadline and "hell or high water" will not postpone it anymore.* I think that is what happened here. there was an uneducated deadline date placed on this rollout and no matter how much IT programmers may have fought it, they lost.* From what I can see they have a large task ahead of them and I wonder how many of the original designers or PM are still there.  Hopefully we can be patient and little by little things will start to get straightened out.


Have no doubt about the clueless upper management related to understanding specifics of IT workings.  Management goals and rigid deadlines often get foisted onto IT as the "fix it" solution to a management agenda.  What people do not realize, including management, is that developing a functional system that is required to manage the dynamic volume of data transactions that occur is just beasty!!  It takes MULTIPLE levels of testing prior to rollout.  Each level of testing must be SUCCESSFUL first, prior to going to the next level.

It's likely testing was happening, to some degree, in the development prior to the August 2016 suspensions.  But new information came to light during that process and CRITERIA CHANGED.  Deadlines were still in place, then delayed (only slightly) but not enough to adequately TEST based on the changed criteria.  Now everyone is in "fly by the seat of the pants" mode to meet the deadline.  IT would know that a "fail" was imminent with the release and yet the uneducated management pulled the trigger anyway.

So, let's give the uneducated management a brief moment of "benefit of the doubt" break because a lot of people are "clueless" when it comes to all this IT stuff.  It's complicated and geek-speak just rolls over the top of our heads, right?  Likely in all that geek-speak when management was being told "_*will fail, not ready, not enough time to test the changes*_" it all sounded like "_wah wah wah_, _Wah wah wah_, _Meh, Wah wah, Yadda yadda, Zie ga zink_" to management because their brains were screaming "_gotta hit the deadline, plug the holes, cannot be that hard, too long to develop, gelt yadda yadda gelt._"

OK, break over.  ROLLOUT FAILED

*But the hubris that refuses to pull it back is still in play.*  Which results in the delightful Voyager TRIP we are now experiencing.

It is also likely that the original design was intended to be a full implementation of the system.  What we are actually experiencing is a phased rollout, with broken pieces, that have gone untested.  *HUGE difference in IT strategy.  *

So, back to* observations from day one of the rollout *-- WE, the owners, are now testing the system LIVE as they continue to scramble to populate the various phases.

Can someone please put an umbrella in my drink now?


----------



## Sandy VDH

55plus said:


> Wyndham has Apps for all their ventures except for us, WVR. They have some Apps under Club Wyndham, but they are for their rental businesses like Extra Holidays, etc. ........ But then why make anything easy for those who are paying them to work for us and maintain the systems. Go figure?



That is because they already have your money, or a commitment for you to pay it.  They generate NO real additional revenue, other than transaction, guest and housekeeping fees. In the grand scheme of things that is extra gravy but not the main meal ticket.


----------



## ronparise

Sandy VDH said:


> That is because they already have your money, or a commitment for you to pay it.  They generate NO real additional revenue, other than transaction, guest and housekeeping fees. In the grand scheme of things that is extra gravy but not the main meal ticket.



Income from transaction fees, guest fees and housekeeping fees do not go to Wyndham, they go to the club and the maintenance fees go to the resorts, not wyndham

They get a management fee, but the real money comes from sales


----------



## gottashiner

happyhopian said:


> I just miss the old Ron that was always in for an anti-wyndham discussion. This Ron got his arse handed to him, though it was likely better than the worst case but remember sir, the rest of us have not been through that process. Have a little respect for our anger. As futile as you might think it is you point for weeks has been suck it up or sell out. Just because it cost money to do something there are times when in fact it is the right thing to do. As I have posted on here several times - wyndham has a legal (not just contractual) obligation to manage the trust for OUR benefit, not theirs. If by failure of their management they have not done this then there are repercussions. I am pursuing my own line of progress and I suggest that each person do theirs. Doing nothing only frustrates you, doing something, even if not totally successful can be successful in reducing anxiety. The first step I recommend to everyone is to write or email both the attorney general in the state in which you own property, your own attorney general, the florida attorney general and your congressman/senator in washington. You'll be shocked at the response you get. I was.



I think we should EACH file a complaint with:
Bureau of Compliance

Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares & Mobile Homes

400 W. Robinson Street, Suite N-908

Orlando, FL 32801

407-317-7226


----------



## ilya

Having problems adding a guest  and called OC and they are having the same problem. Once you get to the payment type it circulates . What is the outcome of getting a guest added successfully? They did tell me to call back on MONDAY.. and this is an overlapping reservation that  needed to have a guest name on  by today..


----------



## cyseitz

Normally, I would ask if anyone else is having trouble with the website today...lol...I get to the log in and then it starts to buffer and then I get a "Page Not Found" message...


----------



## wjappraise

ilya said:


> Having problems adding a guest  and called OC and they are having the same problem. Once you get to the payment type it circulates . What is the outcome of getting a guest added successfully? They did tell me to call back on MONDAY.. and this is an overlapping reservation that  needed to have a guest name on  by today..



I had the same problem getting the credit card feature to work.  I used PayPal option and it worked.  Very odd. But typical in Wyndham world.  Where stupid is called "new and improved."  With apologies to stupid. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ilya

wjappraise said:


> I had the same problem getting the credit card feature to work.  I used PayPal option and it worked.  Very odd. But typical in Wyndham world.  Where stupid is called "new and improved."  With apologies to stupid.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Tried PayPal and didn't work either. Now cant get passed my login page....


----------



## bobbyoc23

cyseitz said:


> Normally, I would ask if anyone else is having trouble with the website today...lol...I get to the log in and then it starts to buffer and then I get a "Page Not Found" message...



I'm having the same problem, site isn't working for me. Circle of death.


----------



## OutSkiing

Sandy VDH said:


> That is because they already have your money, or a commitment for you to pay it.  They generate NO real additional revenue, other than transaction, guest and housekeeping fees. In the grand scheme of things that is extra gravy but not the main meal ticket.


I believe they will feel a decline in direct developer sales. In the past they say that a huge portion of their sales was to upgrade users who had made an initial purchase and 'experienced' Wyndham.  I cannot see how anyone would make an additional purchase after attempting to use this website and/or get help from a vc or oc.  We've made repeat purchases in the past (before buying into resale) and they were significantly based on the confidence the old website gave us about the fundamentals of making / seeing / canceling reservations.

Bob


----------



## OutSkiing

bobbyoc23 said:


> I'm having the same problem, site isn't working for me. Circle of death.


Ditto for me .. circle of death on landing page still at 10:20pm.


----------



## famy27

Trying to check availability now. Website has been up and down for me for the past hour and is so painfully slow that I want to stab myself in the eye.


----------



## WalnutBaron

gottashiner said:


> I think we should EACH file a complaint with:
> Bureau of Compliance
> 
> Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares & Mobile Homes
> 
> 400 W. Robinson Street, Suite N-908
> 
> Orlando, FL 32801
> 
> 407-317-7226


I think this is a great idea, but unfortunately it's lost in this thread, now 59 pages long and counting. Might I suggest you start a new thread with this suggestion and information, and then ask each positive responder to let you know after they've written a letter and sent it to report back that they've done so. That way, you'll all have an idea of how many letters were sent in, at least by TUGgers.


----------



## cayman01

2:18 AM and cannot even get to the login. "Hold tight we'll be right back" etc....let's see what the morning brings.


----------



## nicemann

Everything seems to be working right now


----------



## vacationhopeful

R U trying to jinks its working by posting this? 

Clear skies and fair trading might be a better way of putting that Wyndhamland's weather is like!


----------



## scootr5

nicemann said:


> Everything seems to be working right now



If by "everything" you mean "able to log in", then yeah (at least for me). I tried looking for availability at a couple of resorts, and that's still not functioning.


----------



## cayman01

National Harbor is showing availability. Circle of Death for Great Smokies Lodge and Emerald Grande.


----------



## wed100105

Wyndham Glacier Canyon still showing no inventory.  

Branson at the Meadows is back up though, and I was able to book Branson at the Meadows for July. Interesting enough though, it came back with a match, but I couldn't see the calendar to see what was available and when.


----------



## Baby Jane

So has anybody noticed there is a message at the top of reservations section on new website. It gives you dates for your upcoming vacation. I ended up calling the resort direct because the dates were not the same as my reservation. Thankfully the dates I had given my guest were the same as what the resort had but the website reminder was wrong


----------



## wjappraise

Baby Jane said:


> So has anybody noticed there is a message at the top of reservations section on new website. It gives you dates for your upcoming vacation. I ended up calling the resort direct because the dates were not the same as my reservation. Thankfully the dates I had given my guest were the same as what the resort had but the website reminder was wrong



What a cluster ...... this new website has become!   Have they no shame?  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ronandjoan

Can't get on on my phone now, says I am in a PRIVACY mode and to change it.  I am in NO privacy mode.

Got on my laptop and actually found the dates I wanted and then tried to BOOK -  NOTHING!  Unable to book.  How do they think people can "go on vacation"  - as listed on the home page.

Unbelievable


----------



## famy27

Baby Jane said:


> So has anybody noticed there is a message at the top of reservations section on new website. It gives you dates for your upcoming vacation. I ended up calling the resort direct because the dates were not the same as my reservation. Thankfully the dates I had given my guest were the same as what the resort had but the website reminder was wrong



I had the same issue. It says Nov 23-25, but my stay is Nov 24-26. The never-ending joys of the new website.


----------



## wanderround

My account used to work. Now when I try to book anything I get "Please review and confirm the travel details above." after I click the complete button. A VC is unable to book anything in our account either.


----------



## 55plus

ronandjoan said:


> Can't get on on my phone now, says I am in a PRIVACY mode and to change it.  I am in NO privacy mode.
> 
> Got on my laptop and actually found the dates I wanted and then tried to BOOK -  NOTHING!  Unable to book.  How do they think people can "go on vacation"  - as listed on the home page. Unbelievable


Looks like your phone and Wyndham's dysfunctional website are related somehow. Maybe they are cousins?


----------



## ronandjoan

55plus said:


> Looks like your phone and Wyndham's dysfunctional website are related somehow. Maybe they are cousins?


Oh,  I meant I cannot get on the Wyn website on my iPhone... used to be able to do almost everything on it... I can get on other websites, just to clarify that my phone is working but why can't I get on Wyn?


----------



## raygo123

OutSkiing said:


> I believe they will feel a decline in direct developer sales. In the past they say that a huge portion of their sales was to upgrade users who had made an initial purchase and 'experienced' Wyndham.  I cannot see how anyone would make an additional purchase after attempting to use this website and/or get help from a vc or oc.  We've made repeat purchases in the past (before buying into resale) and they were significantly based on the confidence the old website gave us about the fundamentals of making / seeing / canceling reservations.
> 
> Bob


That's just it, how many owners have to use the website right now?  I know I don't, with 900,000 owners maybe 10 %?  And of rthose, how many are simple look up and book, and haven't had a problem?  The new buyers are told how great the newly created website is, and how easy it is to find and book your dream vacation.   What do they know?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## ronandjoan

wanderround said:


> My account used to work. Now when I try to book anything I get "Please review and confirm the travel details above." after I click the complete button. A VC is unable to book anything in our account either.


I am so sorry for you... I am totally upset myself, cannot book online and haven't found hours avail to wait for a VC to try to call.

What will you do?  Was it ever resolved?

Does anyone know the best time to call?


----------



## ronandjoan

raygo123 said:


> The new buyers are told how great the newly created website is, and how easy it is to find and book your dream vacation.   What do they know?
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk




But are the new owners being successful?


----------



## raygo123

ronandjoan said:


> But are the new owners being successful?


Who cares as long as they buy?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## Railman83

Ron had said "Wyndham wants happy owners" and he is correct as he is about most things Wyndham. 

 This is not a nefarious plan, as some have suggested, to drive owners to turn in memberships to Ovation so the have CWA to sell.   It is, Occam"s razor, the most simple explanation, a botched IT rollout.

How long it takes to fix is anyone's guess, but it will be fixed to allow functional use of what people have purchased.  In the meantime the pessimism reminds me of the 2009 market crash where the DOW was at 6600 and it was the end of capitalism.   Everyone was selling while Buffet and smart money were buying cheap.   Same here reflected in EBay pricing as of late....as if it will never be fixed.  

The rule changes are to put the mega renters out of business in favor of the small and medium owner.   It is long term strategy like when Netflix went to online content vs discs and everybody was calling Hastings and idiot....1000% market cap later it was clear they made the right call.

Same with Wyndham....a lot of small happy owners is better than a handful of happy mega renters...that said, if it isn't fixed soon, nobody will be happy.


----------



## 55plus

What a piece of crap website Wyndham crammed down our throats. My account is inactive again for a second time this week. What's going on at the other end? Searching for availability was much easier and faster on the old website. Why would someone design a website to make its primary function more difficult? It has to be by design. I wish they would stop playing with themselves and get to work and fix the website.


----------



## 55plus

Railman83 said:


> The rule changes are to put the mega renters out of business in favor of the small and medium owner.   It is long term strategy like when Netflix went to online content vs discs and everybody was calling Hastings and idiot....1000% market cap later it was clear they made the right call.
> 
> Same with Wyndham....a lot of small happy owners is better than a handful of happy mega renters...that said, if it isn't fixed soon, nobody will be happy.



I believe the policy changes are to curb the mega renters and point managers and create more availability for us. But the website is a whole different story. Why would someone design a website to make its primary function more difficult and limited unless it was by design. The new website benefits Wyndham and Extra Holidays, not us.


----------



## wanderround

ronandjoan said:


> I am so sorry for you... I am totally upset myself, cannot book online and haven't found hours avail to wait for a VC to try to call.
> 
> What will you do?  Was it ever resolved?
> 
> Does anyone know the best time to call?




It still isn't resolved. We opened a case over 2 weeks ago and at that time we thought it was only related to the one resort we were trying to book.  Since then we have discovered we can't book anything. We are going to Hawaii in mid August so were trying to get our discount and upgrade and have since found we are unable to book anywhere. We were on the phone with them for about 3 hours yesterday and wouldn't give up until we were assured that somebody was actually working on our ticket. We are supposed to get a call back within 72 hours.


----------



## Free2Roam

ronandjoan said:


> Does anyone know the best time to call?



A couple times I've called about 15 min before the call center closed.

Others may have different experiences, but for me, both times they answered (even though it was after closing time by then)... and my wait was less than 30 min. Last time was probably 2 weeks ago.


----------



## ronparise

55plus said:


> I believe the policy changes are to curb the mega renters and point managers and create more availability for us. But the website is a whole different story. Why would someone design a website to make its primary function more difficult and limited unless it was by design. The new website benefits Wyndham and Extra Holidays, not us.


I think you have it exactly right, although wyndham wont say they made the rule changes to put megarenters out of business, thats what they expect. Wyndham would say its being done to make the reservations process fairer... Either way the practical effect will be that the megarenters will be out of business.  They dont seem to care, however about the points managers, as long as they are managing multiple smaller accounts. I dont get the sense that wyndham wants to stop smaller owners from renting what they own to recover some of their maintenance fees. And the smaller accounts are. most of any magarenters supply.  It may be paranoia but I think the only owners that wyndham really wants gone, are guys with accounts from 20 or 30  million points and up; at least thats my best guess. 

The website issues I dont think were intended to do anything more than implement the rules and manage the inventory.   I dont think that the botched roll out of Voyager was intended to capture inventory for Extra Holidays, or force anyone out of the club, alyhough that does seem to be happening


----------



## cayman01

wanderround said:


> It still isn't resolved. We opened a case over 2 weeks ago and at that time we thought it was only related to the one resort we were trying to book.  Since then we have discovered we can't book anything. We are going to Hawaii in mid August so were trying to get our discount and upgrade and have since found we are unable to book anywhere. We were on the phone with them for about 3 hours yesterday and wouldn't give up until we were assured that somebody was actually working on our ticket. We are supposed to get a call back within 72 hours.



Call 1-800-251-8736, option 3, option 2. Don't wait to listen to choices. Should get through pretty quick.


----------



## cayman01

55plus said:


> What a piece of crap website Wyndham crammed down our throats. My account is inactive again for a second time this week. What's going on at the other end? Searching for availability was much easier and faster on the old website. Why would someone design a website to make its primary function more difficult? It has to be by design. I wish they would stop playing with themselves and get to work and fix the website.



 This is NOT going to be a quick fix. By letting people make reservations before all the inventory data was passed to the new system Wyndham has made a gargantuan mistake. It may take months, as several with IT experience have stated, for them to get it right. And that's just the reservations. Nevermind the horrendous search function. That is a whole different can of worms. 

 OTOH think of Wyndham's position now. Half of their sales come from existing owners. Do you think ANY of these existing owners are going to buy direct right now? Not a chance, and they are telling the marks at the updates. WYndham sales are going to tank over the rest of the year.


----------



## Baby Jane

ronparise said:


> I think you have it exactly right, although wyndham wont say they made the rule changes to put megarenters out of business, thats what they expect. Wyndham would say its being done to make the reservations process fairer... Either way the practical effect will be that the megarenters will be out of business.  They dont seem to care, however about the points managers, as long as they are managing multiple smaller accounts. I dont get the sense that wyndham wants to stop smaller owners from renting what they own to recover some of their maintenance fees. And the smaller accounts are. most of any magarenters supply.  It may be paranoia but I think the only owners that wyndham really wants gone, are guys with accounts from 20 or 30  million points and up; at least thats my best guess.
> 
> The website issues I dont think were intended to do anything more than implement the rules and manage the inventory.   I dont think that the botched roll out of Voyager was intended to capture inventory for Extra Holidays, or force anyone out of the club, alyhough that does seem to be happening


 
We are just regular Platinum owners who bought for our Golden years but in the meantime we like to rent out the points we can't use. There is no way not to lose money with the new system. Each time we upgraded we were sold on rent what you don't use. So we did and now they don't like it. Maybe mega renters lose more but the reality is regular owners like us probably can't afford the loss


----------



## Jan M.

*Club Wyndham*
We recognize that some of you are having trouble logging in or navigating the new owner website. We understand how much you value your travel and we’re dedicated to successfully onboarding every owner. As we continue to assist those still experiencing challenges, these resources may help: http://wy.ndh.am/2sVPi3T

I was just on Facebook and saw this post from Club Wyndham. I read the 115 comments that are recent within the past day. There are so many more unhappy owners out there than the few, by comparison, posting here on TUG. Every issue with the new website that we've talked about here on TUG is mentioned repeatedly in the comments.

There are owners who have recently, are currently or will be soon staying at the various resorts. They are making it a point to tell the other people at the resorts not to buy Wyndham. Several said that in the past they were the ones who talked up Wyndham and recommended buying. It appears that there is/will be a larger number than I speculated there would be of rightfully disgruntled owners making it their mission to warn people off! Hey Wyndham, can you hear us now?


----------



## ilya

Jan M. said:


> *Club Wyndham*
> 
> I was just on Facebook and saw this post from Club Wyndham. I read the 115 comments that are recent within the past day. There are so many more unhappy owners out there than the few, by comparison, posting here on TUG. Every issue with the new website that we've talked about here on TUG is mentioned repeatedly in the comments
> 
> I am not seeing many defend Wyndham on facebook  as they have before. Seeing some defend Wyndham here on TUG that didn't before. Hmm..


----------



## erniecrews

Baby Jane said:


> We are just regular Platinum owners who bought for our Golden years but in the meantime we like to rent out the points we can't use. There is no way not to lose money with the new system. Each time we upgraded we were sold on rent what you don't use. So we did and now they don't like it. Maybe mega renters lose more but the reality is regular owners like us probably can't afford the loss


What makes it more difficult to rent via the new website?  Why would you lose money now as opposed to before?  Believe me - I hate the new website, but I was just wondering?


----------



## Baby Jane

erniecrews said:


> What makes it more difficult to rent via the new website?  Why would you lose money now as opposed to before?  Believe me - I hate the new website, but I was just wondering?
> 
> Just length of time it takes to book. The cancel and rebook probably will not work. Especially if Wyndham is scooping cancellations up in 60 day window to either rent themselves or for others upgrades. I have people who regularly rent from me and have always just tried to get cost of maintenance points used and always got the points discounted. Already had two of those renters say no to full points rentals  Also booking betting on a rental now doesn't work as you have to have renters name on if you have 2 overlapping reservations. So makes cancel and rebook harder to do too as it wastes valuable guest confirmations. I may be wrong and hope I am but it isn't looking promising.


----------



## erniecrews

Thank You


----------



## ohdewer

As former Oracle DBA, here’s what I think is the problem.  A properly designed database needs 3 main things besides a good structure; processing power, disk space and memory.  Processing power allows you to handle multiple transactions at a time, disk space allows your database to grow without issues and memory lets you manipulate data and keeps the system from bogging down.

Databases store info in tables that look exactly like the points chart for Wyndham.  Your user information is also stored in a similar table, with your membership number being used at the focus point for that table.  All the data in the table can be linked to your membership number.

Now you run into problems when 2 users log in and want to access the same table. 

For example, Member 1 and Member 2 both want to look at Bonnet Creek availability.  They each select the same table and the database will take that information, move it memory and create a workspace for each person to pick the dates they want.  Once the users are done, then it will make the official change to the table when the member hits a button like done, complete or apply.  It 2 users hit apply at the same time, the database will use some type of algorithm to see whose information is saved first.  If they both chose the same thing, then one will get the reservation and the other will get a message saying that the week was taken.   

I think Wyndham is probably using cloud services for their resources instead of physical devices.  They either underestimated the amount of processing power, disk space or memory they would need or were too cheap to pay for it.  The database either can’t handle the number of transactions taking place at certain times or does not have enough memory to hold the complete table information for you to view.  Member’s points are being hosed up because the database can’t either pull the correct data, the table is corrupt or the data hasn't been written back into a table.  You can't find availability for probably the same reasons. 

Just my in the weeds version and 2 cents on the problem.  I think it will get better over time, once they figure out the correct amount of resources.  Anyone who has ever worked with virtual machines knows the tedious job of trying to find the right mix of resources to give each device.  Of course, testing is the key, it doesn’t look like Wyndham took the time to do that.


----------



## 55plus

erniecrews said:


> What makes it more difficult to rent via the new website?  Why would you lose money now as opposed to before?  Believe me - I hate the new website, but I was just wondering?


The main problem with the website is it works against us retirees who can get away anytime. With no 'first available' option the process is very time consuming. We have to search each resort, each size unit at each resort, each type (disability) of unit for each size unit at each resort to find something first available. Whereas, with the 'first available' option we had in the old website we could search up to 5 resorts for every size unit available with one click of the mouse. What use to take seconds now can take an hour or even more. 

Think about it, what logic is there in designing a new website that make its primary function more difficult to use and limits its search capabilities unless it was by design. The new website benefits Wyndham and Extra Holidays, not us who are retired and can get away at the drop of a dime. What Wyndham did was devalue the product for us retirees and probably thousands upon thousands of others owners. When we travel we will voice our opinion to perspective buyers and other owners and tell them about TUG and eBay until we get the 'first available' option back. Maybe when sales drop off they'll stop circle jerking and make the website right. A new website with updated technology shouldn't perform like website's from the early '90s.


----------



## ronparise

55plus said:


> The main problem with the website is it works against us retirees who can get away anytime. With no 'first available' option the process is very time consuming. We have to search each resort, each size unit at each resort, each type (disability) of unit for each size unit at each resort to find something first available. Whereas, with the 'first available' option we had in the old website we could search up to 5 resorts for every size unit available with one click of the mouse. What use to take seconds now can take an hour or even more.
> 
> Think about it, what logic is there in designing a new website that make its primary function more difficult to use and limits its search capabilities unless it was by design. The new website benefits Wyndham and Extra Holidays, not us who are retired and can get away at the drop of a dime. What Wyndham did was devalue the product for us retirees and probably thousands upon thousands of others owners. When we travel we will voice our opinion to perspective buyers and other owners and tell them about TUG and eBay until we get the 'first available' option back. Maybe when sales drop off they'll stop circle jerking and make the website right. A new website with updated technology shouldn't perform like website's from the early '90s.



Your complaints seem to be more how it works rather than does it work at all

I agree the search function isn't what it should be but more important to me at this point is knowing that I can't trust what i find in a search is really there. Ie phantom availability, upgrades disallowed and inventory never loaded bother are the problems that bother me


----------



## ronparise

erniecrews said:


> What makes it more difficult to rent via the new website?  Why would you lose money now as opposed to before?  Believe me - I hate the new website, but I was just wondering?



Regarding lost money:


In the past I could get a three bedroom for half the price of a studio. The profit potential for folks that rent reservations was pretty good

Now I can't do that and the rent I can get for a 3 bedroom isn't enough to cover the fees


----------



## Sandi Bo

ronparise said:


> Your complaints seem to be more how it works rather than does it work at all
> 
> I agree the search function isn't what it should be but more important to me at this point is knowing that I can't trust what i find in a search is really there. Ie phantom availability, upgrades disallowed and inventory never loaded bother are the problems that bother me



+ that

The main problem with the website is that *it doesn't work. *

*WYN* needs to focus on the basics.  Forget any bells or whistles or any new program changes they want to implement.   Stop trying to auto-upgrade -- IT DOESN'T WORK (WYN if you'd like screenshots, PM me). It's complicated -- and if they are still trying to do it, it's just eating up processing resources.  They can go back to that later. 

Focus on:
* Access (logins work consistently)
* Booking
* Cancelling 
* Accurate inventory - What's there is really there.  And what's available shows up regardless of how I search.
* Accurate points accounting
* Searching (and yes, give us next available, etc, decent industry standard type search capabilities)

Then worked on your enhanced features!


----------



## cayman01

55plus said:


> The main problem with the website is it works against us retirees who can get away anytime. With no 'first available' option the process is very time consuming. We have to search each resort, each size unit at each resort, each type (disability) of unit for each size unit at each resort to find something first available. Whereas, with the 'first available' option we had in the old website we could search up to 5 resorts for every size unit available with one click of the mouse. What use to take seconds now can take an hour or even more.
> 
> Think about it, what logic is there in designing a new website that make its primary function more difficult to use and limits its search capabilities unless it was by design. The new website benefits Wyndham and Extra Holidays, not us who are retired and can get away at the drop of a dime. What Wyndham did was devalue the product for us retirees and probably thousands upon thousands of others owners. When we travel we will voice our opinion to perspective buyers and other owners and tell them about TUG and eBay until we get the 'first available' option back. Maybe when sales drop off they'll stop circle jerking and make the website right. A new website with updated technology shouldn't perform like website's from the early '90s.



You do have a first available  option. Instead of picking a resort , pick a state , area or region. Plug in dates, leave room type open and hit search. Every size of available inventory will appear. It's not as fast as the old way but it is functional. As for no available inventory, not much one can do about that.


----------



## Sandi Bo

cayman01 said:


> You do have a first available  option. Instead of picking a resort , pick a state , area or region. Plug in dates, leave room type open and hit search. Every size of available inventory will appear. It's not as fast as the old way but it is functional. As for no available inventory, not much one can do about that.


I want to make sure I'm following this correctly. 
When I do that, I'll see all the resorts (in FL for example), and have to select 'View Availability Inventory' for each one.
Then I get a list of all the room types at the resort I selected.
And then search through each room type until I see something.
If feel like I'm missing something (because for me that's a stretch to call that functional).


----------



## cayman01

Sandi Bo said:


> I want to make sure I'm following this correctly.
> When I do that, I'll see all the resorts (in FL for example), and have to select 'View Availability Inventory' for each one.
> Then I get a list of all the room types at the resort I selected.
> And then search through each room type until I see something.
> If feel like I'm missing something (because for me that's a stretch to call that functional).



I will pick the state I want to go to, then the dates I want to go, I do not choose room ttpe. Then when I hit search I get all the available resorts with each individual room type. Then hit the book button next to the one I want. Now if there is no availability at all I will switch dates and try again but you have to enter the state or region again also.

There shouldn't be anything about 'view available inventory'. The inventory should be there to pick from.


----------



## markb53

Sandi Bo said:


> I want to make sure I'm following this correctly.
> When I do that, I'll see all the resorts (in FL for example), and have to select 'View Availability Inventory' for each one.
> Then I get a list of all the room types at the resort I selected.
> And then search through each room type until I see something.
> If feel like I'm missing something (because for me that's a stretch to call that functional).



Your method get you the availability calander for each resort, which as you noted is a pain. Cayman01's method you get the actual inventory with all available unit sizes. What cayman01 is doing differently is putting in the dates. I alway found the search for first available in the old system completely useless because what good does it do me to know that the first available date is tomorrow. Usually, actually always, if I'm going to travel I do know the dates I'm going to travel. So I can put in California or West and put the dates I want and a list sorted by resort of all the available inventory will be displayed.


----------



## markb53

cayman01 said:


> I will pick the state I want to go to, then the dates I want to go, I do not choose room ttpe. Then when I hit search I get all the available resorts with each individual room type. Then hit the book button next to the one I want. Now if there is no availability at all I will switch dates and try again but you have to enter the state or region again also.
> 
> There shouldn't be anything about 'view available inventory'. The inventory should be there to pick from.



Looks like we were typing at the same time. The only problem I've seen with this method it that sometimes the Book button next to the unit you want doesn't work. But if you just do another search for the specific resort with the same dates, you'll see the same inventory and the Book button will work.


----------



## CO skier

ronparise said:


> Wyndham would say its being done to make the reservations process fairer... Either way the practical effect will be that the megarenters will be out of business.


The thrust of the changes is to make reservations by rental businesses of any size comparable (fair) for all owners.  (Mega)Owners will not be scooping up 3 and 4 bedroom reservations at 13 or 10 months with the expectation of cancelling/rebooking/upgrading into these units for VIP discounts.  That will leave these units for other owners to book for full points at 13 months or 10 months with no expectation of cancelling; they only want to reserve these vacations at full points to enjoy with their families.  This is what they paid for, so why not?

If a rental business can make reservations at full points and still turn a profit, Wyndham seems to be OK with this.  If a rental business wants to make speculative reservations and add the guest name after 48 hours, this is possible for the cost of a guest confirmation.

While not ideal from an owner-usage perspective, it is a definite improvement.


----------



## ronparise

look at this email i got today  

 I wonder who Mary is?








*Ron Parise <ronparise@gmail.com>
Welcome to myclubwyndham.com!*
*do_not_reply@myclubwyndham.com *<do_not_reply@myclubwyndham.com> Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:41 PM
To: ronparise@gmail.com




LOG IN

*Hi MARY I MORRIS*
Thank you for registering an account with myclubwyndham.com! We’re thrilled to have you join us as we launch our new owner website.

Go ahead, poke around. While many innovative features are still in the works, you can take advantage of a few features right now. Don’t forget to visit "My Ownership" to verify your information and add a profile photo.

Thank you,
Your CLUB WYNDHAM® Team

_Please Do Not Reply To This Message._


About Us Terms of Use Privacy Notice FAQ


----------



## BellaWyn

ohdewer said:


> I think Wyndham is probably using cloud services for their resources instead of physical devices. * They either underestimated the amount of processing power, disk space or memory they would need or were too cheap to pay for it.  The database either can’t handle the number of transactions taking place at certain times or does not have enough memory to hold the complete table information for you to view.*  Member’s points are being hosed up because the database can’t either pull the correct data,* the table is corrupt or the data hasn't been written back into a table.*  You can't find availability for probably the same reasons.
> 
> Just my in the weeds version and 2 cents on the problem.  I think it will get better over time, once they figure out the correct amount of resources.  Anyone who has ever worked with virtual machines knows the tedious job of trying to find the right mix of resources to give each device.  Of course, *testing is the key, i*t doesn’t look like Wyndham took the time to do that.


Good weeds.

What is the likelihood they underestimated all three required resources?  The longer they allow this to continue without expanding the resources what happens to the integrity of the DBs?  Do they continue to crumble [corrupt] over time? The DB table sizes are significant with extremely high volumes of transactional activity.  An additional question is what happens when a data table is inaccurate at the onset of the rollout (points accounting not accurately reconciled so the data sets start out with wrong information) and then that data gets a multitude of transactions on top of those starting errors?

Agree that getting the right combination of resources in a VM can be VERY tedious (fixed or dynamic tradeoffs in play) and with large systems, that have volumous amounts of transational activity, resources get consumed quickly.  If they didn't allocate adequately, one of the beautiful things about VM's is that both CPU and memory resources can be expanded somewhat seemlessly to the EU.  It is the expansion of disk size that gets a slightly more complex.  But it can be done.  A good cloud service provider will snapshot the VMDK with frequent regularity (built into the service contracts).  Presume Wyndham's IT is doing this also with even greater frequency given the growing problems with the data integrity.  TGF redundancy!

It's the lack of testing that gets confusing because multiple VM's can easily be run concurrent with a broad spectrum of criteria [presumes adequate resources are made available to set up multiple VMs however]. This shortcuts some of the testing time.  VMs have been used for developmental systems testing in IT for quite a while because they do not require the capital outlay that physical machines demand and they can cut over structural modifications seemlessly to the EU's.

So where does this leave us?  Are we back to thinking that 1) the original structure was poorly designed (speaks to functionality) and/or 2)  are they being too cheap to pay for the expansion resources necessary to keep the system from getting overloaded?  Or both?  Also, where does the "No DB of available inventory" fit into all of the current issues owners are having trying to search inventory that does not exist?  Really like the in the weeds perspective.  Agree with the likelihood of the system running in cloud-based VM's.  But VM's can be expanded, with adequate capital to pay for the expansions (still significantly less $$ than expanding PMs).


----------



## BellaWyn

CO skier said:
			
		

> That will leave these units for other owners to book for full points at 13 months or 10 months with no expectation of cancelling; they only want to reserve these vacations at full points to enjoy with their families. This is what they paid for, so why not?


Am fairly certain there are a lot of VIP owners that thought they were paying for significantly MORE than only getting vacations at full point value, mega-renters aside.


----------



## Baby Jane

markb53 said:


> Your method get you the availability calander for each resort, which as you noted is a pain. Cayman01's method you get the actual inventory with all available unit sizes. What cayman01 is doing differently is putting in the dates. I alway found the search for first available in the old system completely useless because what good does it do me to know that the first available date is tomorrow. Usually, actually always, if I'm going to travel I do know the dates I'm going to travel. So I can put in California or West and put the dates I want and a list sorted by resort of all the available inventory will be displayed.



The old system showed you days available for 2 months and was way way easier to find availability.


----------



## Baby Jane

BellaWyn said:


> Am fairly certain there are a lot of VIP owners that thought they were paying for significantly MORE than only getting vacations at full point value, mega-renters aside.



Exactly. This may be more fair to families who own a small deed but Platinum owners who have spent a small fortune to get more perks it is a disaster


----------



## Sandi Bo

Baby Jane said:


> Exactly. This may be more fair to families who own a small deed but Platinum owners who have spent a small fortune to get more perks it is a disaster


We can only hope they really take this in the gut as far as new sales. Definitely hard to justify the cost of VIP Platinum today. Sales will need to go to a new level of lying to sell VIP - especially to get anyone to upgrade if they've had any experience whatsoever with the new enhanced system.  Resale is certainly the way to go  -  I can't imagine they really thought this through.


----------



## vacationhopeful

And Wyndham collected the full dollars on those Silver, Gold and Platinum (from the initial little points purchase to the 1,000,000+) contracts ... but Wyndham truly only wants HAPPY & EXCITED little buyers ... who will continue to MOVE UP in ownership (aka continue to buy MORE developer points).

But hit that Platinum Level .... after spending all that MONEY .... and now, discover they are the step-children of both parents as they are living with new house rules, a $99 fee for their family & friends who are 'thinking' of coming, lost reservations and hard to search & time consuming for multiple vacation options.

Why should a 55 or 65 or 75+ year OWNER need a teenager to master their new & partially working vacation reservation computer system?

Those OWNERS could handle & use their computer reservation system 2 months ago ... today, they have to sit for the hours on the phone ...* JUST* trying to get a live person to answer their phone call ... who may or may not help them to book what they want ... or find ANYTHING which is better than nothing.

PLEASE, Wyndham, your owner base (customers) are NOT 20yo computer gamers who will be using this (your) reservation system.

PS. Yes, there are a few "well to do" 20yo targets to become Wyndham Vacation Club owners. But most under 30yo persons don't have but a week or so of vacation time. Those 65yo have much more vacation time.... and no preschool costs.... and no college loans.... and most without mortgages.... and GRANDKIDS to spoil.


----------



## ohdewer

BellaWyn said:


> Good weeds.
> 
> From my experience, the problem is that you have business-minded people making IT decisions.  They concentrate on the financial or marketing aspect of a project rather than the functionality.  As you stated, adding resources or starting up a new VM is simple.  However, some people forget it is the actual operation of the system that matters, not the bells and whistles you want to show to upper management and sales.


----------



## geist1223

Also remember the top folks at Wyndham have come out of Sales not Resort Management or Guest Services. This drastically narrows their focus at the Corporate Level and their ability to understand issues/needs like IT/IS.


----------



## cayman01

Sandi Bo said:


> We can only hope they really take this in the gut as far as new sales. Definitely hard to justify the cost of VIP Platinum today. Sales will need to go to a new level of lying to sell VIP - especially to get anyone to upgrade if they've had any experience whatsoever with the new enhanced system.  Resale is certainly the way to go  -  I can't imagine they really thought this through.



This is going to crush sales. Half of their sales come from existing owners. After a couple spins on the new website who in their right mind is going to buy more points from Wyndham? Anybody think the Facebook group is breaking out their check books? Wyndham really blew this. And as has been said this will be no quick fix.


----------



## BellaWyn

ohdewer said:


> From my experience, the problem is that you have business-minded people making IT decisions. They concentrate on the financial or marketing aspect of a project rather than the functionality. As you stated, adding resources or starting up a new VM is simple. However, *some people forget it is the actual operation of the system that matters, *not the bells and whistles you want to show to upper management and sales.


Yep!  And when the decision-makers knowingly pull the trigger to suit only the narrow focus of those marketing and financial aspects, IT gets saddled with the Grande Scramble to put it right after-the-fact.  

Now we have hampsters that can never get off the wheel because the EU's are transacting in DBs that are loosing integrity on a continuum.  The data tables associated with inventory availability will eventually be the least challenging to resolve.  It's the back trace on owner accounts that will be the ever growing nightmare.  If the system keeps seeing inaccuracies in the availability of the data "currencies" used to make the transactions, owners get stopped cold until that back trace can happen.  Triage grows from the occasional correction to an epidemic.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...eneral-discussion.256063/page-59#post-2019788


----------



## Baby Jane

cayman01 said:


> This is going to crush sales. Half of their sales come from existing owners. After a couple spins on the new website who in their right mind is going to buy more points from Wyndham? Anybody think the Facebook group is breaking out their check books? Wyndham really blew this. And as has been said this will be no quick fix.



We can only hope it does but sales is so good at lying I doubt it will


----------



## wjappraise

CO skier said:


> The thrust of the changes is to make reservations by rental businesses of any size comparable (fair) for all owners.  (Mega)Owners will not be scooping up 3 and 4 bedroom reservations at 13 or 10 months with the expectation of cancelling/rebooking/upgrading into these units for VIP discounts.  That will leave these units for other owners to book for full points at 13 months or 10 months with no expectation of cancelling; they only want to reserve these vacations at full points to enjoy with their families.  This is what they paid for, so why not?
> 
> If a rental business can make reservations at full points and still turn a profit, Wyndham seems to be OK with this.  If a rental business wants to make speculative reservations and add the guest name after 48 hours, this is possible for the cost of a guest confirmation.
> 
> While not ideal from an owner-usage perspective, it is a definite improvement.



Wrong!   What are you smoking to think ANYTHING is an improvement with the new website.  



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BellaWyn

CO skier said:
			
		

> While not ideal from an owner-usage perspective, it is a definite improvement.


SERIOUSLY? When it is "not ideal from owner-user perspective" in a system intended primarily for that owner-user to make transactions there is NOTHING *definite* that could be considered an *improvement*.  Back trace your dots dude.  Your logic account needs an audit!!!!


----------



## 55plus

cayman01 said:


> You do have a first available  option. Instead of picking a resort , pick a state , area or region. Plug in dates, leave room type open and hit search. Every size of available inventory will appear. It's not as fast as the old way but it is functional. As for no available inventory, not much one can do about that.





cayman01 said:


> I will pick the state I want to go to, then the dates I want to go, I do not choose room ttpe. Then when I hit search I get all the available resorts with each individual room type. Then hit the book button next to the one I want. Now if there is no availability at all I will switch dates and try again but you have to enter the state or region again also.
> 
> There shouldn't be anything about 'view available inventory'. The inventory should be there to pick from.


You are missing the point - we and so many other retired owners can take off anytime. Let's say it's Monday and we decide to get away and go somewhere, anywhere. Destination basically doesn't matter. That's where the 'first available' option comes in. By deleting that option Wyndham is basically saying to the retired owners, 'we don't care about your needs or wants. We got your money and that's all that matters to us'. That's what I hear by their action. What took seconds to accomplish now can take an hour or more. A new website with updated technology shouldn't perform like website's from the early '90s. In other words, Wyndham dumbed down the website to benefit them and Extra Holiday. 

When we travel we will talk to perspective buyers and other owners about what Wyndham did to us and how they crammed that piece of crap abortion of a website down our throats. By blowing the whistle on Wyndham to others while at the resorts and hopefully prevent them from buying. That's another way increase availability, Wyndham!


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> Am fairly certain there are a lot of VIP owners that thought they were paying for significantly MORE than only getting vacations at full point value, mega-renters aside.



The key words in what you have said is "they thought"  If they thought they got more than free upgrades and discounted reservations, within their discount and upgrade window (subject to availability)..... They thought wrong


----------



## BellaWyn

Jan M. said:


> *Club Wyndham*
> We recognize that some of you are having trouble logging in or navigating the new owner website. We understand how much you value your travel and we’re dedicated to successfully onboarding every owner. As we continue to assist those still experiencing challenges, these resources may help: http://wy.ndh.am/2sVPi3T
> 
> I was just on Facebook and saw this post from Club Wyndham. I read the 115 comments that are recent within the past day. There are so many more unhappy owners out there than the few, by comparison, posting here on TUG. Every issue with the new website that we've talked about here on TUG is mentioned repeatedly in the comments.
> 
> There are owners who have recently, are currently or will be soon staying at the various resorts. They are making it a point to tell the other people at the resorts not to buy Wyndham. Several said that in the past they were the ones who talked up Wyndham and recommended buying. It appears that there is/will be a larger number than I speculated there would be of rightfully disgruntled owners making it their mission to warn people off! Hey Wyndham, can you hear us now?


Jan, I think they may have capped the comments to 120.  Did 46 pages of screenshots capturing all the complaints on that FB thread.  Likely it will get wiped out soon.


----------



## Braindead

cayman01 said:


> This is going to crush sales. Half of their sales come from existing owners. After a couple spins on the new website who in their right mind is going to buy more points from Wyndham? Anybody think the Facebook group is breaking out their check books? Wyndham really blew this. And as has been said this will be no quick fix.


I don't know how long sales will have to suffer before a new rule gets implemented.

WYN needs to give the VIPs their discount and next level up in points required as an upgrade at time of booking. Then lock out that reservation from being able ad a GC to that reservation. That gives the VIP OWNER the discount and upgrades they deserve and no discount to GCs reservations.

If you have family that usually travel every year add them as owners to a deed you already have. You don't have to buy a resale contract to do that.
If they are so afraid of the liability they don't deserve a discount and or upgrade in my opinion. Why should they expect all the perks from you for nothing.

This would stop the discounts and upgrades on GC reservations.

Going to Owner Update in a little bit. Going to show me how to cancel - rebook with Voyager. Should be fun to learn new tricks.
Sales weasels haven't lost cancel - rebook tactic yet.
Will report back on all the new tricks


----------



## Explorer7

I personally do not define first available by me selecting a date. i used first available to get into Coconut Mallory resort in Ocean City this summer two times, and four-bedroom presidential's at Governors Green in Williamsburg two times   these reservations would be virtually impossible without the first available feature being searched on a regular basis until these rare units show up in inventory randomly


----------



## ronparise

Sandi Bo said:


> We can only hope they really take this in the gut as far as new sales. Definitely hard to justify the cost of VIP Platinum today. Sales will need to go to a new level of lying to sell VIP - especially to get anyone to upgrade if they've had any experience whatsoever with the new enhanced system.  Resale is certainly the way to go  -  I can't imagine they really thought this through.



resale was always the way to go... nothing has changed there. The tech savvy folks whether current owners or new prospects know that they can check out the product on line, and when they do, they wont buy... nothing has changed there

Wyndham will continue to make sales to the folks that dont know, or dont care that they are buying $200,000 condos for $1.500.000. As an old salesman once told me "sell the sizzle, not the steak"  

A platinum owner will pay about $200,000  for 10 weeks a year. which means for the first 10 years he will pay $2000 + $1200 in maintenance fees for each week. $3200 is a lot for a week in a wyndham timeshare (except perhaps in New York or San Francisco) Even if he could count on a 50% discount and get 20 vacations a year his cost per vacation for the first 10 years is $2200/week>   Compare that to the resale owner that gets his million points for $10,000  His cost per week for the first 10 years is $1300/week

My point with these numbers is that the folks that buy from wyndham dont look at the numbers. If they did they would never buy. Sales will do just fine.. They can still pitch the discounts to new buyers, and they will figure out a way to pitch upgrades. They wont sell to you or to me, but will sell to someone, just like they always have


----------



## 55plus

ronparise said:


> The key words in what you have said is "they thought"  If they thought they got more than free upgrades and discounted reservations, within their discount and upgrade window (subject to availability)..... They thought wrong


It's not what they 'thought', it's what they were told. We all heard that sales pitch from the sales pigs. I bet that line doesn't change. It's up to us to spread the word at the resorts to anyone considering buying. If I see someone that appears to have purchased I'm going to tell them to read TUG today, checkout resell on TUG and eBay and rescind ASAP. That's another way increase availability, Wyndham!


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> The key words in what you have said is "they thought"  If they thought they got more than free upgrades and discounted reservations, within their discount and upgrade window (subject to availability)..... They thought wrong


VIPs didn't, actually, expect more from their ownerships than free upgrades and discounted reservations within the discount windows.  VIP owners utililzed those options in the way Wyndham ALLOWED, even* supported by Wyndham staff * for a period that exceeds well over 8 YEARS.  That is a significant historical window where they didn't just "look the other way" they encouraged VC's to be cooperative in the process, ergo speaks to INTENT TO ALLOW.  The "Oops, we didn't really mean it" posturing doesn't fly.  They knowingly allowed the process, knowingly encouraged sales to promote it and knowingly bilked VIP owners, all the while writing legal CYA into the contracts JIC they decide at some future point to pull it all back.  The VIP discounts and upgrades were NOT the primary reason the rule changes got made.  It is a biproduct of needing to plug the holes where the bleeding was actually happening.

To shrink an 8+ year window of supported activity into the single statement of "they thought wrong" mirrors Wyndham's current posture they are taking on a very broken website.  "It's you, not us."


----------



## cayman01

55plus said:


> You are missing the point - we and so many other retired owners can take off anytime. Let's say it's Monday and we decide to get away and go somewhere, anywhere. Destination basically doesn't matter. That's where the 'first available' option comes in. By deleting that option Wyndham is basically saying to the retired owners, 'we don't care about your needs or wants. We got your money and that's all that matters to us'. That's what I hear by their action. What took seconds to accomplish now can take an hour or more. A new website with updated technology shouldn't perform like website's from the early '90s. In other words, Wyndham dumbed down the website to benefit them and Extra Holiday.
> 
> When we travel we will talk to perspective buyers and other owners about what Wyndham did to us and how they crammed that piece of crap abortion of a website down our throats. By blowing the whistle on Wyndham to others while at the resorts and hopefully prevent them from buying. That's another way increase availability, Wyndham!



 Okay, I will try this one more time. I just did a search of the WHOLE South Region for availability for Monday as per your example. Using my method I found three results in about 15 seconds. That is all it took. 

 I agree that the website is horrible. I hate it, BUT I am learning to work with what I am given until it gets fixed. Right now that is all we can do. Is it bad? Yes. Should heads roll? Absolutely. Did Wyndham do it on purpose? This is where we differ. Wyndham wants to put the big renters out of business WITHOUT hurting their business. How many current owners who have experienced this enhanced beauty of a website are going to write a check to Wyndham for more points? Exactly ZERO. IF Wyndham had any foresight as to how bad this rollout was going to be they never would have done it. They should have just changed the rules and kept the old site until Voyager was right. But, I believe there was something seriously wrong with the old site and its points calculator as far as cancelled and pooled points were concerned. Thus, corporate rushed the thing in, was told everything was hunkydory and the result is what we are stuck with til it is fixed.


----------



## traveldaddy

Railman83 said:


> Ron had said "Wyndham wants happy owners" and he is correct as he is about most things Wyndham.
> 
> This is not a nefarious plan, as some have suggested, to drive owners to turn in memberships to Ovation so the have CWA to sell.   It is, Occam"s razor, the most simple explanation, a botched IT rollout.



I believe you could also use Hanlon's razor - Do not blame something on nefarious intent when it can be more simply explained by incompetence. 



cayman01 said:


> .......
> I agree that the website is horrible. I hate it, BUT I am learning to work with what I am given until it gets fixed. Right now that is all we can do. Is it bad? Yes. Should heads roll? Absolutely. Did Wyndham do it on purpose? ........



Just one's persons opinion, but I agree. They tried to do something, and I believe they were trying to impact Mega renters, but I don't believe they were trying to do a website this bad. I can't believe anyone would do something this bad intentionally. It is a career killer. The only rationale explanation is incompetence. That includes not just individuals, but also (especially?) the organizational structure/management/culture. It is painful to watch, but sometimes you just can't look away.......I may be wrong, but I don't see how this does not negatively impact the Wyndham brand significantly. Having said that, I thought Volkswagon was doomed due to their corrupt culture. YMMV.


----------



## Roger830

55plus said:


> When we travel we will talk to perspective buyers and other owners about what Wyndham did to us and how they crammed that piece of crap abortion of a website down our throats. By blowing the whistle on Wyndham to others while at the resorts and hopefully prevent them from buying.!



If there  are no new buyers, then there will be higher mf. Higher mf with a poor website seems even worse.


----------



## schoolmarm

Ok, Cayman,  I'll try this.  You are thinking in the reverse of what a couple of us are thinking when you did your search for first available.

You are searching for a DATE.  Many of us don't care WHEN we go, we want to know when the first available vacancy is and we will get our flights and vacation time according to what is available. (Or let's say that you live near a resort and want to use up a few points by using an express reservation).  The old site would put in availability for the first vacancy at a resort--tomorrow, October, February, whenever--and could do the search for multiple resorts.  You didn't have to put in a DATE to guess at when the first vacancy is. It might be Monday, it might be January...that's a lot of dates. Right now, we can put in a region, state or resort and a DATE you get the available units for that DATE.  What if there is availability the day after the date that you put in?  You won't see it. That is why so many of us are really missing the +/- 4 days feature and the "first availability feature".

Reverse it--don't put in a date.  We want to go to a resort or even a state or region, but we don't care when.  You can't search for this unless you choose a unit at a specific resort.  Some of the resorts have 10-15 types of units. Some locales have 3 or more resorts. That's a lot of searching. And the wheel spins for each of them. And when you go back for another resort or unit type search you have to reset the calendar from today's date. 

I saw a new "filter" on the search page the other day...you can click on what type of unit you want.  But I couldn't get it to work without putting in a specific date/resort.  Can we just HOPE that this feature would work for a multiple date or multiple resort search?

I think that Wyndham is taking the hotel reservation model with this search feature. Most people booking hotels are looking for a specific date.  Many people booking resorts are also locked into specific dates, but many (dare I say most?) have more flexibility with either check-in date or check-out date or length of stay.

I DO like the ability to search by state or to do the clickboxes to choose multiple resorts. Now if we can get the same flexibility with dates...so many more people would be (almost) happy campers.


----------



## vacationhopeful

Roger830 said:


> If there  are no new buyers, then there will be higher mf. Higher mf with a poor website seems even worse.



Give away your membership ... or just one deed. And do it "on the cheap" ... a $1 for the deed plus splitting the $299 transfer fee & recording fee. And for the next 10 years, your new owner will be happy to tell everyone at the resort, how LITTLE they paid. Have 10 contracts, 10 new families. And tell others at the resort, how to give away their ownership instead of giving the contracts to Ovation. So 10 new families or 100 new families, good and happy owners ... all explaining WHAT the real value is for those points and deeds.

Freecycle exists to keep things out of landfills ... proving what is one persons' trash, is another person's treasure.

Wyndham owners are just recycling timeshare ownerships ... to improve everyone's vacation experience.

IMHO and my personal experience, the new website is junk.


----------



## markb53

cayman01 said:


> Okay, I will try this one more time. I just did a search of the WHOLE South Region for availability for Monday as per your example. Using my method I found three results in about 15 seconds. That is all it took.
> 
> I agree that the website is horrible. I hate it, BUT I am learning to work with what I am given until it gets fixed. Right now that is all we can do. Is it bad? Yes. Should heads roll? Absolutely. Did Wyndham do it on purpose? This is where we differ. Wyndham wants to put the big renters out of business WITHOUT hurting their business. How many current owners who have experienced this enhanced beauty of a website are going to write a check to Wyndham for more points? Exactly ZERO. IF Wyndham had any foresight as to how bad this rollout was going to be they never would have done it. They should have just changed the rules and kept the old site until Voyager was right. But, I believe there was something seriously wrong with the old site and its points calculator as far as cancelled and pooled points were concerned. Thus, corporate rushed the thing in, was told everything was hunkydory and the result is what we are stuck with til it is fixed.



I agree completely. I discovered this method of searching the new site pretty early on. For me it is much better than show me the first available. Seemed like when ever I would search first available, it would often show me availability within a week and since there was no way to go to the next available (at least as far as I know) it wasn't that useful to me. Besides, I usually know know the dates I want to travel. As you say, put in the dates and in 10 seconds, I get the list of everything in the city, state or region. There is also a way to search the entire Wyndham inventory, but it is not nearly as quick. Plus it is rare that don't know what part of the country I want to go to. I know it is hard to lose a method of searching that you are accustomed to. Maybe if they add the first available search back. They will add a next button so you will be able to see the next and then the next next.


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> VIPs didn't, actually, expect more from their ownerships than free upgrades and discounted reservations within the discount windows.  VIP owners utililzed those options in the way Wyndham ALLOWED, even* supported by Wyndham staff * for a period that exceeds well over 8 YEARS.  That is a significant historical window where they didn't just "look the other way" they encouraged VC's to be cooperative in the process, ergo speaks to INTENT TO ALLOW.  The "Oops, we didn't really mean it" posturing doesn't fly.  They knowing allowed the process, knowingly encouraged sales to promote it and knowingly bilked VIP owners, all the while writing legal CYA into the contracts JIC they decide at some future point to pull it all back.  The VIP discounts and upgrades were NOT the primary reason the rule changes got made.  It is a biproduct of needing to plug the holes where the bleeding was actually happening.
> 
> To shrink an 8+ year window of supported activity into the single statement of "they thought wrong" mirrors Wyndham's current posture they are taking on a very broken website.  "It's you, not us."



I agree with you. I made a lot of money with that loophole , and I got my platinum accounts through another loophole, (now closed)

It was a nice ride, but now it's over

i don't know what you don't understand. Yes we were taught by Wyndham sales people how to use loopholes.and yes we were allowed to do it.  But those loopholes are now closed.it dosent matter why Wyndham allowed it and now they don't

 All your bitching and moaning isn't going to change a thing Neither in my opinion will a law suit. Ask bill spearman how it worked for him


----------



## sjdanb

ronparise said:


> resale was always the way to go... nothing has changed there. The tech savvy folks whether current owners or new prospects know that they can check out the product on line, and when they do, they wont buy... nothing has changed there
> 
> Wyndham will continue to make sales to the folks that dont know, or dont care that they are buying $200,000 condos for $1.500.000. As an old salesman once told me "sell the sizzle, not the steak"
> 
> A platinum owner will pay about $200,000  for 10 weeks a year. which means for the first 10 years he will pay $2000 + $1200 in maintenance fees for each week. $3200 is a lot for a week in a wyndham timeshare (except perhaps in New York or San Francisco) Even if he could count on a 50% discount and get 20 vacations a year his cost per vacation for the first 10 years is $2200/week>   Compare that to the resale owner that gets his million points for $10,000  His cost per week for the first 10 years is $1300/week
> 
> My point with these numbers is that the folks that buy from wyndham dont look at the numbers. If they did they would never buy. Sales will do just fine.. They can still pitch the discounts to new buyers, and they will figure out a way to pitch upgrades. They wont sell to you or to me, but will sell to someone, just like they always have



You are very precise in your writing and very pragmatic in your thinking, and I like the way you broke down the figures to ascertain the cost per week.  I have been a Wyndham owner for more than 10 years, unfortunately purchasing over the years various numbers of points to the current Platinum level of 1.4+ million points.  It doesn't look like an easy task, but I'm going to try to figure out a cost per week number for my expenditures.


----------



## Jan M.

Roger830 said:


> If there are no new buyers, then there will be higher mf. Higher mf with a poor website seems even worse.



Not true, Roger. Wyndham and the resale companies pay maintenance fees for any points they hold just like we do. Unpaid maintenance fees by owners resulting in foreclosures hurt the resorts and up the maintenance fees. That is one of the reasons why you ask for an estoppel letter or deal with a resale company that guarantees a "clean" deed. If you purchase a deed with unpaid maintenance fees on it you are now responsible for those back maintenance fees.

I'm going off the topic of this thread but this is something that bears repeating and in which we should all take a greater interest.

After reading the thread related to the lawsuit and the article below, it is apparent that we should all be more responsible owners and be taking a good hard look at the annual financial reports at our home resorts. The total number of points at the resort times the current mf's minus any unpaid mf's in collection/foreclosure should be the starting amount available to the resort every year. The salary/wages of the resort staff are an expense on the resort's budget. The salary/wages of any sales related staff are solely Wyndham's responsibility. If the front desk staff as part of their job are required to promote sales, sign people up for tours/updates, give out choice room assignments based on those tours/updates that is a conflict of interest.

This is one of the reasons I don't like CWA. There is far less clarity of the financial information and allows Wyndham to use or misuse these funds to their benefit with even less oversight.

December 09, 2008 01:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
DAYTONA, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--One of the largest civil actions to ever be filed in the State of Florida was filed today in Volusia County by South Florida attorney Mark Bogen. A 50 count complaint was filed against Wyndham Vacation Resorts and Wyndham Vacation Management on behalf of Ocean Walk Resort Condominium Association.

The complaint alleges that Wyndham, which managed the condominium association, misused association money and staff for the benefit of their timeshare expenses. According to Craig Jackson, President of the association and banking executive, “We believe that our association is owed a significant amount of money due to the actions of Wyndham. What is hard to believe is that even though the board of directors fired them as our management company, Wyndham refuses to give us control of our bank account, bank records or financial information.” The lawsuit not only alleges that Wyndham misused association funds for their own benefit, but also claims that Wyndham hired an unlicensed manager to manage the association in violation of Florida law.


----------



## BellaWyn

ronparise said:


> I agree with you. I made a lot of money with that loophole , and I got my platinum accounts through another loophole, (now closed)
> 
> It was a nice ride, but now it's over
> 
> i don't know what you don't understand. Yes we were taught by Wyndham sales people how to use loopholes.and yes we were allowed to do it.  But those loopholes are now closed.it dosent matter why Wyndham allowed it and now they don't
> 
> All your bitching and moaning isn't going to change a thing Neither in my opinion will a law suit. Ask bill spearman how it worked for him


1) Am clear in my understanding the loopholes are now closed.
2) Am clear in the understanding you made a lot money with those loopholes (and a number of others)
3) Am clear in my understanding your ride was much nicer for a lot less capital outlay than most VIP owners (as was mine)
4) Did not attempt to explore the "why" it was allowed.  Only pointed to the fact that it WAS allowed, which is 8+ years of CHOICE by the decision makers.
5) Have zero expectations that things will change significantly going forward (including any acceleration in the improvements to the website).
6) Have NEVER made any suggestion of a lawsuit.
7) Was neither "bitching" or "moaning" about any of it.  Was mearly trying to not reduce the perspectives of a plethera of VIP owners, all highly frustrated having now paid for what they can no longer obtain, to the *over simplified statement * of "they thought wrong."

If that runs up the back of your spine .....     Read it again.  Somewhere in most of that it says *"I agree with you also" *except for the repeating posture of suggesting to ALL owners they must now lower expectations, happily adapt or get out.  Kinda what Wyndham's posture is also.  Go figure.


----------



## jhoug

wanderround said:


> My account used to work. Now when I try to book anything I get "Please review and confirm the travel details above." after I click the complete button. A VC is unable to book anything in our account either.



My account used to work for 3 weeks, then the last week I can't even log in. 
I get "Oops, there is something wrong with your login. Please try again or register for a new login"
So I try to reset the password.  That didn't work. 
I try to register for a new login.  That either tells me I already have a new login. Or when we tried to register the other owner for a login sends us in a loop.
Tried calling a VC on Monday picked the option for "login issues/can't login", got through to a VC in <5 min. Wow!
She tried having me clear my cookies, then try to reset the password.  Although she could see my login and info, when I tried to do the web-based password reset, it didn't recognize my security questions. 
She said she'd have to put in an IT ticket, and they'd have to get back to sometime this week.  
Well, it's been the whole week and I still have NOTHING.  No email. No call.  No access.  No login.


----------



## Roger830

vacationhopeful said:


> Give away your membership ... or just one deed. And do it "on the cheap" ... a $1 for the deed plus splitting the $299 transfer fee & recording fee. And for the next 10 years, your new owner will be happy to tell everyone at the resort, how LITTLE they paid. Have 10 contracts, 10 new families. And tell others at the resort, how to give away their ownership instead of giving the contracts to Ovation. So 10 new families or 100 new families, good and happy owners ... all explaining WHAT the real value is for those points and deeds.


 
I suspect that if one does an analysis by searching county deed records, the result will show that the retail sales overwelms the resales.

It's been my experience that most people are justifiably skeptical about buying a timeshare, and the resale market is really quite small relative to retail.

In the near future, the $1 resale market could be flooded with listings.


----------



## sjdanb

schoolmarm said:


> Ok, Cayman,  I'll try this.  You are thinking in the reverse of what a couple of us are thinking when you did your search for first available.
> 
> You are searching for a DATE.  Many of us don't care WHEN we go, we want to know when the first available vacancy is and we will get our flights and vacation time according to what is available. (Or let's say that you live near a resort and want to use up a few points by using an express reservation).  The old site would put in availability for the first vacancy at a resort--tomorrow, October, February, whenever--and could do the search for multiple resorts.  You didn't have to put in a DATE to guess at when the first vacancy is. It might be Monday, it might be January...that's a lot of dates. Right now, we can put in a region, state or resort and a DATE you get the available units for that DATE.  What if there is availability the day after the date that you put in?  You won't see it. That is why so many of us are really missing the +/- 4 days feature and the "first availability feature".
> 
> Reverse it--don't put in a date.  We want to go to a resort or even a state or region, but we don't care when.  You can't search for this unless you choose a unit at a specific resort.  Some of the resorts have 10-15 types of units. Some locales have 3 or more resorts. That's a lot of searching. And the wheel spins for each of them. And when you go back for another resort or unit type search you have to reset the calendar from today's date.
> 
> I saw a new "filter" on the search page the other day...you can click on what type of unit you want.  But I couldn't get it to work without putting in a specific date/resort.  Can we just HOPE that this feature would work for a multiple date or multiple resort search?
> 
> I think that Wyndham is taking the hotel reservation model with this search feature. Most people booking hotels are looking for a specific date.  Many people booking resorts are also locked into specific dates, but many (dare I say most?) have more flexibility with either check-in date or check-out date or length of stay.
> 
> I DO like the ability to search by state or to do the clickboxes to choose multiple resorts. Now if we can get the same flexibility with dates...so many more people would be (almost) happy campers.



I agree.  I'm going to have to check out this "search by state... multiple resorts" function, which I haven't noticed.  It would be very helpful if Wyndham would incorporate your ideas into the new website functions.


----------



## comicbookman

BellaWyn said:


> VIPs didn't, actually, expect more from their ownerships than free upgrades and discounted reservations within the discount windows.  VIP owners utililzed those options in the way Wyndham ALLOWED, even* supported by Wyndham staff * for a period that exceeds well over 8 YEARS.  That is a significant historical window where they didn't just "look the other way" they encouraged VC's to be cooperative in the process, ergo speaks to INTENT TO ALLOW.  The "Oops, we didn't really mean it" posturing doesn't fly.  They knowing allowed the process, knowingly encouraged sales to promote it and knowingly bilked VIP owners, all the while writing legal CYA into the contracts JIC they decide at some future point to pull it all back.  The VIP discounts and upgrades were NOT the primary reason the rule changes got made.  It is a biproduct of needing to plug the holes where the bleeding was actually happening.
> 
> To shrink an 8+ year window of supported activity into the single statement of "they thought wrong" mirrors Wyndham's current posture they are taking on a very broken website.  "It's you, not us."



Intent and words like "ergo" do not change the fact that Wyndham did not do anything illegal.  Aside from the fact that the new website sucks in general, the changes in the way reservations and upgrades are handled in no way changes the rules.  It does not change what we were told.  We were told that we could get upgrades and discounts in the 60 day window (platinum)  We were told that the then current reservation system allowed you to gamble using the cancel rebook strategy.  We were not promised it would always work, and indeed it did not always work, even with the help of a VC.  The new booking engine makes it even harder to do a successful cancel rebook, but in no way changes the discounts and upgrades I am entitled to get.  I don't like the new reality, but it does not rise to the level of fraud or theft.  The new website, by denying owners there basic entitlements due to the many errors, now that might constitute theft.  Freezing accounts for indefinite periods, but still requiring MF's, that might be fraud or theft.  Changing the booking engine to diminish the ability to double up on discounts and upgrades, but not preventing those functions, not theft or fraud.


----------



## bnoble

Roger830 said:


> It's been my experience that most people are justifiably skeptical about buying a timeshare, and the resale market is really quite small relative to retail.



Exactly. Timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought. Very few people understand what the value proposition might be unless they do a lot of homework, and that homework is not something most people do in relation to vacations.


----------



## cayman01

schoolmarm said:


> Ok, Cayman,  I'll try this.  You are thinking in the reverse of what a couple of us are thinking when you did your search for first available.
> 
> You are searching for a DATE.  Many of us don't care WHEN we go, we want to know when the first available vacancy is and we will get our flights and vacation time according to what is available. (Or let's say that you live near a resort and want to use up a few points by using an express reservation).  The old site would put in availability for the first vacancy at a resort--tomorrow, October, February, whenever--and could do the search for multiple resorts.  You didn't have to put in a DATE to guess at when the first vacancy is. It might be Monday, it might be January...that's a lot of dates. Right now, we can put in a region, state or resort and a DATE you get the available units for that DATE.  What if there is availability the day after the date that you put in?  You won't see it. That is why so many of us are really missing the +/- 4 days feature and the "first availability feature".
> 
> Reverse it--don't put in a date.  We want to go to a resort or even a state or region, but we don't care when.  You can't search for this unless you choose a unit at a specific resort.  Some of the resorts have 10-15 types of units. Some locales have 3 or more resorts. That's a lot of searching. And the wheel spins for each of them. And when you go back for another resort or unit type search you have to reset the calendar from today's date.
> 
> I saw a new "filter" on the search page the other day...you can click on what type of unit you want.  But I couldn't get it to work without putting in a specific date/resort.  Can we just HOPE that this feature would work for a multiple date or multiple resort search?
> 
> I think that Wyndham is taking the hotel reservation model with this search feature. Most people booking hotels are looking for a specific date.  Many people booking resorts are also locked into specific dates, but many (dare I say most?) have more flexibility with either check-in date or check-out date or length of stay.
> 
> I DO like the ability to search by state or to do the clickboxes to choose multiple resorts. Now if we can get the same flexibility with dates...so many more people would be (almost) happy campers.



 I dearly miss the +/- 4days first available feature also. But the fact is that, for now at least, it is gone. Maybe somewhere down the road we get it back. In the meantime we have to live with what we have. I am just trying to make it a little more livable. The method I show  is a LOT better than going thru the individual rooms at one resort. Yes, you have to put in dates, but it's a lot more workable than going thru individual unit sizes.


----------



## raygo123

Braindead said:


> I don't know how long sales will have to suffer before a new rule gets implemented.
> 
> WYN needs to give the VIPs their discount and next level up in points required as an upgrade at time of booking. Then lock out that reservation from being able ad a GC to that reservation. That gives the VIP OWNER the discount and upgrades they deserve and no discount to GCs reservations.
> 
> If you have family that usually travel every year add them as owners to a deed you already have. You don't have to buy a resale contract to do that.
> If they are so afraid of the liability they don't deserve a discount and or upgrade in my opinion. Why should they expect all the perks from you for nothing.
> 
> This would stop the discounts and upgrades on GC reservations.
> 
> Going to Owner Update in a little bit. Going to show me how to cancel - rebook with Voyager. Should be fun to learn new tricks.
> Sales weasels haven't lost cancel - rebook tactic yet.
> Will report back on all the new tricks


1.  Make reservation

2 cancel reservation in your discount window

3.  Wait, wait, wait,  then grab it!*


* disclaimer, this may not work!

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhopian

BellaWyn said:


> Am fairly certain there are a lot of VIP owners that thought they were paying for significantly MORE than only getting vacations at full point value, mega-renters aside.


You have to understand that COskier has been the active conscious for disdain of anything to do with megarenters and people who upgrade/cancel-rebook for years on here. I think he is so happy these folks are getting screwed he is willing to accept ANY collateral damage. That is how I read him because there is no way you can call this a positive direction much less an improvement unless you are him or 'new' Ron.


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> The key words in what you have said is "they thought"  If they thought they got more than free upgrades and discounted reservations, within their discount and upgrade window (subject to availability)..... They thought wrong


You keep saying this, and then when pressed you will simply say that nothing the sales staff said or showed was in writing. We all agree that everything is written in a way that Wyndham can change it at anytime but there is no doubt that everyone in Wyndham knew what Cancel / Rebook was as the VCs have been doing it for 5 years for me on the phone and never batted an eye - so it is a bit more than VIP owners 'thought'....they words for Wyndham's actions are  acquiescence and complicit or my favorites - fraudulent and in breech of their fiduciary duties to the trust and the owners represented therein.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> You keep saying this, and then when pressed you will simply say that nothing the sales staff said or showed was in writing. We all agree that everything is written in a way that Wyndham can change it at anytime but there is no doubt that everyone in Wyndham knew what Cancel / Rebook was as the VCs have been doing it for 5 years for me on the phone and never batted an eye - so it is a bit more than VIP owners 'thought'....they words for Wyndham's actions are  acquiescence and complicit or my favorites - fraudulent and in breech of their fiduciary duties to the trust and the owners represented therein.


Be careful in what you say. I'm understanding from your post. That you specifically asked someone to commit fraud and be in breach of their fiduciary duties to the trust on your behalf. If a class action is filed. Should you and others be sued with Wyndham ?

Unbelievable owners update today.
Only 2 out of 8 couples even knew where they own. We think WYN and VCs are incompetent. I'm willing to add the average owner is just as incompetent as WYN if this group was a good representation of the owners. Ron thinks Wyndhams sales will be fine. Have to agree with this oblivious group.

First topic was. Yes the website is a mess with a lot of problems.

VIPs will get less discounts but more upgrades. Was our sales person guess.
Over half of the units in the whole Wyndham system have been tied up in the past for cancel -rebook - upgrade.
We have a CWA contract but was told like others that we will see more available units than those without CWA.
The new trick to cancel - rebook with Voyager. Is you can't.

No pressure to buy. Made me one offer that was actually really good for developer points. 
Stated I have no interest in buying. Let us go.  No closer no pressure at all. Out in an hour.


----------



## ronparise

BellaWyn said:


> 1) Am clear in my understanding the loopholes are now closed.
> 2) Am clear in the understanding you made a lot money with those loopholes (and a number of others)
> 3) Am clear in my understanding your ride was much nicer for a lot less capital outlay than most VIP owners (as was mine)
> 4) Did not attempt to explore the "why" it was allowed.  Only pointed to the fact that it WAS allowed, which is 8+ years of CHOICE by the decision makers.
> 5) Have zero expectations that things will change significantly going forward (including any acceleration in the improvements to the website).
> 6) Have NEVER made any suggestion of a lawsuit.
> 7) Was neither "bitching" or "moaning" about any of it.  Was mearly trying to not reduce the perspectives of a plethera of VIP owners, all highly frustrated having now paid for what they can no longer obtain, to the *over simplified statement * of "they thought wrong."
> 
> If that runs up the back of your spine .....     Read it again.  Somewhere in most of that it says *"I agree with you also" *except for the repeating posture of suggesting to ALL owners they must now lower expectations, happily adapt or get out.  Kinda what Wyndham's posture is also.  Go figure.



Im a simple guy.. and when it comes to expectations, I expect the the best, but I plan for the worst.  and if you have a  choice other than  adapt, or get out. Pray tell, what is it?


----------



## chapjim

wjappraise said:


> Wrong!   What are you smoking to think ANYTHING is an improvement with the new website.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



You can smoke most anything in CO.


----------



## chapjim

Braindead said:


> Be careful in what you say. I'm understanding from your post. That you specifically asked someone to commit fraud and be in breach of their fiduciary duties to the trust on your behalf. If a class action is filed. Should you and others be sued with Wyndham ?



Fraud?  Fiduciary duties?  Please look up the legal definition of fraud and explain how it relates to cancel-rebook.

Do you really think VCs are fiduciaries?


----------



## Braindead

chapjim said:


> Fraud?  Fiduciary duties?  Please look up the legal definition of fraud and explain how it relates to cancel-rebook.
> 
> Do you really think VCs are fiduciaries?


Why ask me ? 
Happyhopian posted he knowingly asked the VCs to do both for his benefit. That makes him and others just as guilty as WYN 
Why come after me when somebody stated they knowingly asked VCs to commit those offenses against the rest of us ?


----------



## uscav8r

Braindead said:


> Why ask me ?
> Happyhopian posted he knowingly asked the VCs to do both for his benefit. That makes him and others just as guilty as WYN
> Why come after me when somebody stated they knowingly asked VCs to commit those offenses against the rest of us ?



Your premise that these are even fraudulent "offenses" is flawed. These were allowable transactions under the old policies; they are STILL valid transactions under the new policies. They are just more difficult to accomplish under certain circumstances. 

So if they remain valid, and no legal action has been taken by Wyndham or its owner-members, how can they be considered fraud now or then?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Braindead

uscav8r said:


> Your premise that these are even fraudulent "offenses" is flawed. These were allowable transactions under the old policies; they are STILL valid transactions under the new policies. They are just more difficult to accomplish under certain circumstances.
> 
> So if they remain valid, and no legal action has been taken by Wyndham or its owner-members, how can they be considered fraud now or then?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just love how you guys gang up on me.
It was happyhopian that stated these offenses were committed against the rest of the other owners.

You guys need to look at your premises. If you do something illegal it was still illegal whether legal action is taken or not.
People commit fraud everyday. It's still fraud if no legal action is taken


----------



## chapjim

Braindead said:


> Why ask me ?
> Happyhopian posted he knowingly asked the VCs to do both for his benefit. That makes him and others just as guilty as WYN
> Why come after me when somebody stated they knowingly asked VCs to commit those offenses against the rest of us ?



Oh!  Sorry!  I thought it was you that said cancel-rebook was a fraud and that VCs were breaching their fiduciary duties by assisting owners in doing it.


----------



## uscav8r

Braindead said:


> I just love how you guys gang up on me.
> It was happyhopian that stated these offenses were committed against the rest of the other owners.
> 
> You guys need to look at your premises. If you do something illegal it was still illegal whether legal action is taken or not.
> People commit fraud everyday. It's still fraud if no legal action is taken


Whatever HH has said, you are the one who doubles down on it and repeats the fraud claim (a dubious one at that). 

And for the record, regardless of what he said/she said, cancel/rebook was never illegal. Name the law(s) it violated. It was never even against policy (which carries an even less stringent burden of proof). In fact, the technique is still not prevented by the updated policy. 

Also for the record, I have only used the technique once, and that was mostly due to having to reduce a 7-night stay to a 4-night stay inside the 30-day window. I never truly benefited from it, so no one can really say I am a biased offender. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

Braindead said:


> I just love how you guys gang up on me.
> It was happyhopian that stated these offenses were committed against the rest of the other owners.
> 
> You guys need to look at your premises. If you do something illegal it was still illegal whether legal action is taken or not.
> People commit fraud everyday. It's still fraud if no legal action is taken



Im having trouble with the word "fraud" and "against" >>  To me its more of a missed opportunity thing than "fraud" committed "against" anyone. Of course I was always the one on the "doing it to you" side, rather than "the  having it done to me" side of the equation

Whats the harm with a little cancel and rebook? I used to argue, none. The reservations I made were made 13 months in advance. and I made them with points i owned, They were high demand, low supply reservations that would offer me the chance to rent them at a profit. That profit didnt come out of the pockets of other owner and every other owner had the same chance of getting through on the phone to a VC to make those reservations. And when I cancelled and rebooked I ended up with same (not an additional) reservation. So as I see it, nothing was taken from any other owner. or Wyndham.  "No Harm, No Foul" is what Id say.  

However, There more to it than that. when I cancelled and rebooked  "cancelled points"  were generated.  And heres the problem. I used those cancelled points to make more high demand, low supply reservations.

Everyone should have the same opportunity to get these high value reservations with their points.  If I was using my cancelled  points for anything other than the really high demand stuff, there would be no problem. but I didnt.  The problem was that there was more competition than there should have been, and everyones chances were diminished. 


Fraud? I dont think so.  But its something


----------



## comicbookman

BellaWyn said:


> 1) Am clear in my understanding the loopholes are now closed.
> 2) Am clear in the understanding you made a lot money with those loopholes (and a number of others)
> 3) Am clear in my understanding your ride was much nicer for a lot less capital outlay than most VIP owners (as was mine)
> 4) Did not attempt to explore the "why" it was allowed.  Only pointed to the fact that it WAS allowed, which is 8+ years of CHOICE by the decision makers.
> 5) Have zero expectations that things will change significantly going forward (including any acceleration in the improvements to the website).
> 6) Have NEVER made any suggestion of a lawsuit.
> 7) Was neither "bitching" or "moaning" about any of it.  Was mearly trying to not reduce the perspectives of a plethera of VIP owners, all highly frustrated having now paid for what they can no longer obtain, to the *over simplified statement * of "they thought wrong."
> 
> If that runs up the back of your spine .....     Read it again.  Somewhere in most of that it says *"I agree with you also" *except for the repeating posture of suggesting to ALL owners they must now lower expectations, happily adapt or get out.  Kinda what Wyndham's posture is also.  Go figure.




Actually, you constantly accuse Wyndham of Fraud (with regards to cancel rebook) and have stated that they made this mess of a website on purpose to make more money (which is ridiculous) That would be bitching and moaning.  Cancel rebook was a LOOPHOLE.  as long as it existed Wyndham pushed it and even helped.  The definition of loophole is an unintended hole.  That hole has been closed.  End of story.  If people did not understand what a loophole is, then maybe they should research before they buy.  It's like when the national speed limit went down to 55.  people bought cars that could go faster than 55, car companies touted the top speeds of some models, but once the speed limit changed, you could no longer go over 55 on public roads.  Even though the car companies new it was coming, they still touted the fact that there models could go faster.  Things change, and as long as no law is broken, or contract term disregarded, we need to adapt.  I took advantage of cancel rebook when I could, now it is gone.  I still have what I made for.


----------



## BellaWyn

comicbookman said:
			
		

> you constantly accuse Wyndham of Fraud


 The BBS search engine is your friend. Using my username and the keyword "fraud" related to anything Wyndham specific, what are the subsequent results?

Click here for more help.


----------



## 55plus

chapjim said:


> You can smoke most anything in CO.


That explains the few owners on TUG that are for Wyndham's dysfunctional piece of crap website. Or maybe a deal was reached between Wyndham and the few owners on TUG to become Wyndham's dysfunctional piece of crap website cheerleaders in exchange for unlocking their accounts or other perks? Anyone who supports the changes to the website is either on drugs or on the take with Wyndham. I see no other possibility.


----------



## comicbookman

BellaWyn said:


> The BBS search engine is your friend. Using my username and the keyword "fraud" related to anything Wyndham specific, what are the subsequent results?
> 
> Click here for more help.



You accuse them of "intent" to mislead and imply that what they are doing is illegal or in violation of their fiduciary duties.  That is fraud, even if you avoid the word.  The fact that you are reverting to word games means you are using the same tactics you are complaining about.  Yes I have a legal degree and yes I call bullshit when I see people (or salesman) playing word games.  I am also in IT (over 25 years)and this is one of the worst website implementations I have ever seen.  for this to be intentional is absurd.


----------



## 55plus

comicbookman said:


> You accuse them of "intent" to mislead and imply that what they are doing is illegal or in violation of their fiduciary duties.  That is fraud, even if you avoid the word.  The fact that you are reverting to word games means you are using the same tactics you are complaining about.  Yes I have a legal degree and yes I call bullshit when I see people (or salesman) playing word games.  I am also in IT (over 25 years)and this is one of the worst website implementations I have ever seen.  for this to be intentional is absurd.


I am not a lawyer nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do have a background in IT and was a network administrator for a large school district. I have to agree with you on your statement, "this is one of the worst website implementations I have ever seen". However, the design to limit the website's main function, which is to search for availability and book a reservation, had to have been by design. A key search function was eliminated from the new website. So far from what I read in all the posts no one has a valid explanation of the positive aspect of the limits imposed on us by Wyndham. As I stated previously, why eliminate some features and degrade search functions on a new website unless it was by design? Does anyone have a legitimate answer? Perhaps to benefit Wyndham and Extra Holidays. . .?


----------



## Braindead

ronparise said:


> Of course I was always the one on the "doing it to you" side, rather than "the  having it done to me" side of the equation
> 
> And heres the problem. I used those cancelled points to make more high demand, low supply reservations.
> 
> Everyone should have the same opportunity to get these high value reservations with their points.  If I was using my cancelled  points for anything other than the really high demand stuff, there would be no problem. but I didnt.  The problem was that there was more competition than there should have been, and everyones chances were diminished.
> 
> 
> Fraud? I dont think so.  But its something


I'm not going to try and define the IT.
The IT was done to other owners. Not Wyndham. Wyndham allowed and helped you do the IT to the rest of the owners.
The changes implemented didn't change the amount of units.
But it definitely changed the competition.
I have always said if I was in your and other shoes. I would've done the IT also

The website couldn't be worse.
But I agree with Ron. Make the best of what we have for now. Hope it gets drastically better soon


----------



## ohdewer

However, the design to limit the website's main function, which is to search for availability and book a reservation, had to have been by design. A key search function was eliminated from the new website.

As another IT professional for over 25 years, the database could remain the same, with the front and backends redesigned.  This is what seems to be the issue.  The frontend application to access the data has changed and maybe the backend used by the reservation staff has changed.  This to me is where the design flaws occurred.


----------



## Sandy VDH

The did indeed switch databases, which has contributed to the inventory issues, as the website is not fully loaded and obviously during the conversion the screwed the pooch somewhere. 


The second issue is the website functionality itself.   I can't believe it is by INTENTIONAL design to screw up the search function and make it impractical, I have to think they asked the wrong people what they wanted to see, and ignored what the previous site was able to do.   This goes along with the design.  It is like it was designed by some misinformed marketing people who don't actually search for inventory very often.  This is the same website their VCs have to use to search, that is just ridiculous to think that they would intentionally force their VCs to search with that piece of crap.  I have to believe this is a case of the left hand NOT knowing what the right is doing.

If it was collectively intentional (upper management, middle managment, project manager, BA and Developers), then wyndham as a whole is even more stupid that I could ever have imagined, and someone over there needs to pull their collective head out of the arse.


----------



## ohdewer

Even more evidence it seems IT decisions being made by business-oriented people.


----------



## CO skier

happyhopian said:


> You have to understand that COskier has been the active conscious for disdain of anything to do with megarenters and people who upgrade/cancel-rebook for years on here. I think he is so happy these folks are getting screwed he is willing to accept ANY collateral damage. That is how I read him because there is no way you can call this a positive direction much less an improvement unless you are him or 'new' Ron.



I recognized cancel/rebook as a scam when I first read about it in 2012. A few people caught on to the point at the time, and more since then. Some people will never see the light. I could not understand how Wyndham let it go on for so long, and I did not expect to see a time when they would do something to restrict or eliminate the shady practice.

A few Vacation Guides reportedly refused to participate in the scheme.  I hope no one lost his or her job due to a matter of principle.

If the new Guidelines lay more owners’ heads and fewer renters’ heads in the resort beds, then that meets my definition of an improved system. If more owners, who paid to join the Club to vacation with their family, can reserve what they are looking for, instead of finding it only available on a rental site, how is that not a good thing for the Club?

Restricting cancel/rebook, as it appears the new reservation system may do, will lead to more accessibility to inventory for all owners. Reservations that were made with the ultimate goal of canceling and rebooking for a discount will be reduced, other reservations will no longer be profitable without the cancel/rebook discount, and that will leave them available for other owners to reserve.

If the inventory is not loading into the reservation system, then no one may book it, of course, but that is a horse of a different color.


----------



## CO skier

raygo123 said:


> 1.  Make reservation
> 
> 2 cancel reservation in your discount window
> 
> 3.  Wait, wait, wait,  then grab it!*
> 
> 
> * disclaimer, this may not work!



One thing that Wyndham can learn from the belly flopped introduction of Voyager is how effective a randomized, variable delay in returning cancelled reservation to inventory would be to discourage cancel/rebook.


If cancelled reservations returned at some constantly changing delay between 1-5 days after cancellation, it would practically eliminate cancel/rebook. Someone might chase a cancelled reservation for a day, but very few would chase a cancelled reservation for up to 5 days. This would not affect availability, because it would just be as if the canceling owner had held the reservation for the additional time before releasing it.


----------



## BellaWyn

Related to the unbelievably flawed website we can speculate intent vs inept or stupid decision-making all day long, but in the end, it still remains speculative.  As Eric pointed out, unless we jump "into the bowels" of the code there is no certainty.  *We know only the results *of what we experience and the dominos that fall as a biproduct of owners not being able to search, find or obtain reservations.  VIP or no VIP, owners are having similar experiences as evidenced by the miriad of complaints, long hold times and lengthy triage results windows.  *IT gets it's marching orders from levels above.  They fix what they have the skill sets to fix based on the design criteria determined in the planning.*



comicbookman said:


> You accuse them of "intent" to mislead and imply that what they are doing is illegal or in violation of their fiduciary duties.  That is fraud, even if you avoid the word.  The fact that you are reverting to word games means you are using the same tactics you are complaining about.  Yes I have a legal degree and yes I call bullshit when I see people (or salesman) playing word games.  I am also in IT (over 25 years)and this is one of the worst website implementations I have ever seen.  for this to be intentional is absurd.



*So that I am clear on what you are saying:*
1) You do not believe that sales people intentionally mislead when selling the product or that Wyndham continues to support that activity?
2) You are certain the decision-makers did not know the website would be in any way dysfunctional when they instructed IT to roll it out?

Here is what your legal training, that teaches one to read between lines and suss out information that may or may not exist, keeps missing about my posts:
*
1) I take exception to the rhampholean posturings that diminsh the frustrations of ALL owners, whether it be specific to the poorly designed website or the lengthy known history of Wyndhams method of obfuscating information. 
2) Dislike the short-sighted posturing of telling owners what the should or should not think
3) Will not accept broad representations made by the singular as a viable reflection of what ALL owners are or are not thinking 
4) Will seek to clarify over-simplified statements that minimize what owners perceive they have lost in the process of change.*

Have never said it is illegal (Wyn is way too smart for that), fraudlent, or in "violation of fiducuary duties" because I am NOT a legal person.  That is left to the owners that are legal people to determine based on their professional experience. What you translate as inference is your overactive legal brain searching for BS because that is what you know and expect.

*Bottom line is,* as Ron points out with some regularity, *what I think is of no consequence. * Change happened, loopholes closed, and owners ARE finding ways to adapt.  Some are even getting out.  Change is a PROCESS and this is not the first time we have experienced it with our ownerships (for many here).  The door slammed closed, I get it, I hear it, I'm living it just like almost everyone else here. But as we all continue to find ways to adapt, it is also the natural process for humans to want try to understand it so they can move through the greiving process that comes with the individual's perception of loss and change.

I come to TUG specifically to get credible information to help me navigate my ownership.  What I have learned, over time, is that there are credible voices here and others that have now become suspect because the skin of a chameleon is adaptive. Perhaps my voice is suspect to many others here related to what I state or the motivations behind the responses.  That is for the individual to choose what makes sense to them and what does not. TUG is a community of people with broad experiences and perspectives.  We naturally gravitate to what makes sense to us.

Lots of lines above -- will be interesting what the "read between" translations come up with   only because in reality, it does not exist.


----------



## vacationhopeful

I believe the NEW rules and operational delays (on the computer reservation system will JUST increase Wyndham's rental market (position & number of units). Wyndham is the LARGEST MEGA-RENTER ... and most likely is larger NOW than all the ACTIVE mega-renters at each and every resort during the PRIME SEASONs.

So try booking or renting any week in February in Southeast Florida verses the same resorts for any week in August.

Wyndham is in it for the $$$$$ ... they have a 'captive owner base' paying MFs plus Wyndham can control who gets available inventory at any time of the year.... with rule changes and enforcement of those rules.... and no independent auditor or any review process.

PS Does Wyndham pay for Guest Certificate, Housekeeping Credits or Reservation Transactions?


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> Be careful in what you say. I'm understanding from your post. That you specifically asked someone to commit fraud and be in breach of their fiduciary duties to the trust on your behalf. If a class action is filed. Should you and others be sued with Wyndham ?


You're funny but no because what we did was EXACTLY what we were told and sold and in fact executed by Wyndham corporate. That might not be the way you understood it and you might not like the fact that VIPs with lots of point could book 3br units at half the cost of a 1br but that is EXACTLY what wyndham intended. In fact this is what the OC rep told me three years ago (not a quote but my best recollection).
"Wyndham offered upgrades and discounts in the same window, at the same time. Of course they expect you to get an upgrade with a discount". 

Wyndham is certainly entitled to change the rules - the question is did the change benefit them and are they in fact acting as an independent trustee in their decisions and actions. I don't know but I question the level of screw up here as possibly incompetent which could also cause questions about their actions as a trustee. I'm good for now. Upgrades are working OK, but there is a loss of opportunity for now. As a platinum owner with with 2million + points for personal use and some random rentals, even with the changes - I'm still better off than most. I just hate it for the silver and gold guys who are really getting pinched with the new upgrade program - and of course the non-vips who get the worst of the boot.


----------



## raygo123

55plus said:


> I am not a lawyer nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do have a background in IT and was a network administrator for a large school district. I have to agree with you on your statement, "this is one of the worst website implementations I have ever seen". However, the design to limit the website's main function, which is to search for availability and book a reservation, had to have been by design. A key search function was eliminated from the new website. So far from what I read in all the posts no one has a valid explanation of the positive aspect of the limits imposed on us by Wyndham. As I stated previously, why eliminate some features and degrade search functions on a new website unless it was by design? Does anyone have a legitimate answer? Perhaps to benefit Wyndham and Extra Holidays. . .?


I had posted earlier that the changes in the search function was deliberately changed.  My explanation was to slow down mega renters from makeing multiple reservationsin the first minute.  I believe that Wyndham believes this will further spread out reservations among more owners.  I then added, for at least a minute or two.  Also, I think they are wrong, and the elimination of cancel and rebook was enough.

As far as fraud, Ron's right, cancel and rebook is still there, but the VC's can't help, and it has to go through the upgrade cycle.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> Over half of the units in the whole Wyndham system have been tied up in the past for cancel -rebook - upgrade.
> We have a CWA contract but was told like others that we will see more available units than those without CWA.
> The new trick to cancel - rebook with Voyager. Is you can't.



I'm not picking on you here. I think your report from the update is great and it shows how they are spinning this - but I see NO reason they have provided for an owner to buy developer points to upgrade and get VIP status. I'm waiting to hear that pitch from someone.

Now I see =two important points here.

If half of the inventory is tied up in c/r then where is it when the transaction goes through? In other words we should see the other half coming back on line when the complete the c/r process but as someone who watched the screens every day, at BC the largest target of megas - inventory rarely came back. The key is that after 60 days it goes to Wyndham's extra holidays so if there was any extra it went there and THAT is what most smart people are asking about. It's not that this in violation of their contract with us but as a designated trustee in a regulated business, with a publicly traded company - there could be legal trust issue in their role as a trustee (which is to make decisions in the best interest of the owners independent of how that will impact your own interest and in fact some would argue that they should have no vested interest in the trust but I think that is too much to ask.

The second point is where they said there is not cancel rebook. That is not true. I've done it and others are figuring out how. It will be less ,but it is and will happen. 

Comicbookman had it right in a post above. They haven't changed the rules. They just changed how things are working. 

Think about that for a minute. They didn't change the rules (and Lord knows they could have added that in with all the recent rule changes).

Here we are all guessing what they intended and wanted, so ask yourself this. If their intention was to stop cancel rebook, why not make is crystal clear and add a rule saying that this is not allowed in addition to their system changes. That makes ya go hmmmmm doesn't it. 

Ya know why they didn't put it in there, because it can still be done. You have to closely manage the 60 days, and how many units on hold, have more than one person on the account and such. I'm not saying this can be done as a for profit business but it can and has been done since the conversion. Trust me I got a dozen bookings thus far. 

Now Wyndham with all our speculation hasn't specifically said you cannot do this so how can anyone with a straight face said this is or was not allowed.


----------



## Sandy VDH

raygo123 said:


> cancel and rebook is still there, but the VC's can't help, and it has to go through the upgrade cycle.



And the upgrade cycle is also designed to NOT give out as many upgrades.  

Cancellations do not get matched to waiting requests, they go into inventory first, allowing any other member to book them at full points, or allow a VIP member to get an upgrade (if a smaller unit is available if your lucky) or get that unit at a VIP discount ahead of the person waiting for the upgrade batch to run. Designed to give less upgrades or just poorly designed, I can't tell, but it doesn't work very well.

The upgrade batch job is in doubt if it is running at all, or at more than a once a night frequency, as there have been situations reported that for 3 days period inventory existed to upgrade into but NO upgrade was processed by the batch job.  

*In the last 5 days....*
Is the upgrade batch job running??  Has anyone a REQUESTED UPGRADE been matched lately??  Has anyone else received notices to take away upgrades previously granted  

*My answers*
I don't know if the batch is running, I have no proof one way or the other, hence my question.
I have my examples where inventory was available but my request did not get matched.  Over the phone I was told 'BATCH RUNS OVERNIGHT'.
Last noticed I received about taking away an upgrade already provided was 5 days ago.


----------



## happyhopian

comicbookman said:


> Intent and words like "ergo" do not change the fact that Wyndham did not do anything illegal.  Aside from the fact that the new website sucks in general, the changes in the way reservations and upgrades are handled in no way changes the rules.  It does not change what we were told.  We were told that we could get upgrades and discounts in the 60 day window (platinum)  We were told that the then current reservation system allowed you to gamble using the cancel rebook strategy.  We were not promised it would always work, and indeed it did not always work, even with the help of a VC.  The new booking engine makes it even harder to do a successful cancel rebook, but in no way changes the discounts and upgrades I am entitled to get.  I don't like the new reality, but it does not rise to the level of fraud or theft.  The new website, by denying owners there basic entitlements due to the many errors, now that might constitute theft.  Freezing accounts for indefinite periods, but still requiring MF's, that might be fraud or theft.  Changing the booking engine to diminish the ability to double up on discounts and upgrades, but not preventing those functions, not theft or fraud.


As one who practices their learnings I would ask you this. In your opinion is Wyndham in trouble IF they are registered as a trustee and they have a conflict in that they make money from the decisions they are making on behalf of the trust? Now ask yourself IF in fact their decision for the TRUST improves THEIR bottom line while diminishing value from others what is your answer? And finally, take the minority representation analysis - are they willing to put aside their own benefit for the benefit of the least? Regardless of what the sales contract provides for there are specific limitations on the actions of trustees.

As to the website failures. I don't think they are intentional in that they went looking to destroy it, but I do think they rushed to get something in place to meet some needs or goals we don't know about (insert Ron's speculation about his personal interaction here). BUT, this isn't our backyard tree fort - this is a billion dollar operation and if THIS is the level of management and professionalism then one has to start asking about their fiduciary duty.

Contracts are contracts but as lawyer you know that you cannot contact away your rights or any federal/state statues. Wyndham can make us sign anything they want but they cannot require less of themselves than the law requires. This is where my beef with them is and I've done a good bit of talking with the regulatory agencies in the last month about it. Don't know if anything comes of it, but I can assure you they are interested and they questions are being looked at but I'm curious your opinion as well.


----------



## happyhopian

Sandy VDH said:


> And the upgrade cycle is also designed to NOT give out as many upgrades.
> 
> Cancellations do not get matched to waiting requests, they go into inventory first, allowing any other member to book them at full points, or allow a VIP member to get an upgrade (if a smaller unit is available if your lucky) or get that unit at a VIP discount ahead of the person waiting for the upgrade batch to run. Designed to give less upgrades or just poorly designed, I can't tell, but it doesn't work very well.
> 
> The upgrade batch job is in doubt if it is running at all, or at more than a once a night frequency, as there have been situations reported that for 3 days period inventory existed to upgrade into but NO upgrade was processed by the batch job.
> 
> *In the last 5 days....*
> Is the upgrade batch job running??  Has anyone a REQUESTED UPGRADE been matched lately??  Has anyone else received notices to take away upgrades previously granted
> 
> *My answers*
> I don't know if the batch is running, I have no proof one way or the other, hence my question.
> I have my examples where inventory was available but my request did not get matched.  Over the phone I was told 'BATCH RUNS OVERNIGHT'.
> Last noticed I received about taking away an upgrade already provided was 5 days ago.


I had an esclated issue on triage and spoke with OC rep today who called me. Apparently some sort of specialist in OC on the website and told me that upgrades are realtime. I told her I didn't believe her - in a light hearted and laughing way and she said she didn't believe much of what she was being told either.


----------



## happyhopian

chapjim said:


> Fraud?  Fiduciary duties?  Please look up the legal definition of fraud and explain how it relates to cancel-rebook.
> 
> Do you really think VCs are fiduciaries?


he doesn't know. He just didn't like the fact that people used their points, as they were allowed to and got more for their ownership than others did. I appreciate that position just as I do the folks who waited in line overnight at bestbuy and bought all the xboxes I wanted to get for my kid a few years back.


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> I just love how you guys gang up on me.
> It was happyhopian that stated these offenses were committed against the rest of the other owners.
> 
> You guys need to look at your premises. If you do something illegal it was still illegal whether legal action is taken or not.
> People commit fraud everyday. It's still fraud if no legal action is taken


You are just silly or truly braindead. Please point to me where the rules, today, yesterday or the initial set prohibit cancel rebook. CERTAINLY with all the talk about how bad Wyndham wanted to stop this PLEASE tell me they updated that position in the rules. yes? I understand some folks didn't like it but it was never prohibited and with all the talk about this being their reason for doing all this - don't ya think they would have included one simple mention about what isn't allowed? The fact is they don't care and the website change are about MUCH MUCH More.

Did you know that for the first time EVER all wyndham properties, booking, reservation, sales and everyone are all on the same system? I'm staying at a resort this weekend and I spent two hours with the general manager who told me what he knew. There is SO much more to all of this than some silly speculation that this is about cancel rebook


----------



## comicbookman

happyhopian said:


> As one who practices their learnings I would ask you this. In your opinion is Wyndham in trouble IF they are registered as a trustee and they have a conflict in that they make money from the decisions they are making on behalf of the trust? Now ask yourself IF in fact their decision for the TRUST improves THEIR bottom line while diminishing value from others what is your answer? And finally, take the minority representation analysis - are they willing to put aside their own benefit for the benefit of the least? Regardless of what the sales contract provides for there are specific limitations on the actions of trustees.
> 
> As to the website failures. I don't think they are intentional in that they went looking to destroy it, but I do think they rushed to get something in place to meet some needs or goals we don't know about (insert Ron's speculation about his personal interaction here). BUT, this isn't our backyard tree fort - this is a billion dollar operation and if THIS is the level of management and professionalism then one has to start asking about their fiduciary duty.
> 
> Contracts are contracts but as lawyer you know that you cannot contact away your rights or any federal/state statues. Wyndham can make us sign anything they want but they cannot require less of themselves than the law requires. This is where my beef with them is and I've done a good bit of talking with the regulatory agencies in the last month about it. Don't know if anything comes of it, but I can assure you they are interested and they questions are being looked at but I'm curious your opinion as well.



If you can establish that they are profiting from the chaos, then yes they have probably violated their fiduciary responsibility.  I think it would be a stretch to prove they are profiting due to the chaos.  They operate the website under contract to the HOA's, not the trust.  The rules are set to benefit the trust, and the rules are not the problem.  Cancel rebook did not violate the contracted rules, but neither was it guaranteed by those contracts.  The fact that the website sucks is more an issue for the HOA's, which represent regular owners (weeks) and the trust (CWP, and indirectly CWA since it owns deeds allocated to CWP).  Any "wrong doing" on Wyndham's part is more likely to be found in relation to the suspensions and what they show about their inability to properly account for CWP points.  From an IT perspective the mess of a reservation system/website is unlikely to be engineered on purpose.  It is just a really bad design that was rushed out without proper testing. That of course is only my opinion.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> That might not be the way you understood it and you might not like the fact that VIPs with lots of point could book 3br units at half the cost of a 1br but that is EXACTLY what wyndham intended. In fact this is what the OC rep told me three years ago .


If that's exactly what Wyndham intended. Why are we all going through this mess with the new website ?


----------



## ilya

happyhopian said:


> You are just silly or truly braindead. Please point to me where the rules, today, yesterday or the initial set prohibit cancel rebook. CERTAINLY with all the talk about how bad Wyndham wanted to stop this PLEASE tell me they updated that position in the rules. yes? I understand some folks didn't like it but it was never prohibited and with all the talk about this being their reason for doing all this - don't ya think they would have included one simple mention about what isn't allowed? The fact is they don't care and the website change are about MUCH MUCH More.
> 
> Did you know that for the first time EVER all wyndham properties, booking, reservation, sales and everyone are all on the same system? I'm staying at a resort this weekend and I spent two hours with the general manager who told me what he knew. There is SO much more to all of this than some silly speculation that this is about cancel rebook




I'd really like to know more about what the manager told you and what the website changes are about. I've thought about it for a while and believe it goes much deeper than meets the eye..


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> I'm not picking on you here. I think your report from the update is great and it shows how they are spinning this - but I see NO reason they have provided for an owner to buy developer points to upgrade and get VIP status. I'm waiting to hear that pitch from someone.
> 
> Now I see =two important points here.
> 
> If half of the inventory is tied up in c/r then where is it when the transaction goes through? In other words we should see the other half coming back on line when the complete the c/r process but as someone who watched the screens every day, at BC the largest target of megas - inventory rarely came back. The key is that after 60 days it goes to Wyndham's extra holidays so if there was any extra it went there and THAT is what most smart people are asking about. It's not that this in violation of their contract with us but as a designated trustee in a regulated business, with a publicly traded company - there could be legal trust issue in their role as a trustee (which is to make decisions in the best interest of the owners independent of how that will impact your own interest and in fact some would argue that they should have no vested interest in the trust but I think that is too much to ask.
> 
> The second point is where they said there is not cancel rebook. That is not true. I've done it and others are figuring out how. It will be less ,but it is and will happen.
> 
> Comicbookman had it right in a post above. They haven't changed the rules. They just changed how things are working.
> 
> Think about that for a minute. They didn't change the rules (and Lord knows they could have added that in with all the recent rule changes).
> 
> Here we are all guessing what they intended and wanted, so ask yourself this. If their intention was to stop cancel rebook, why not make is crystal clear and add a rule saying that this is not allowed in addition to their system changes. That makes ya go hmmmmm doesn't it.
> 
> Ya know why they didn't put it in there, because it can still be done. You have to closely manage the 60 days, and how many units on hold, have more than one person on the account and such. I'm not saying this can be done as a for profit business but it can and has been done since the conversion. Trust me I got a dozen bookings thus far.
> 
> Now Wyndham with all our speculation hasn't specifically said you cannot do this so how can anyone with a straight face said this is or was not allowed.


Your not picking on me. I simply posted the current spin.
I didn't say I agreed or it was factual. 
The shocker to me is how they didn't even push sales. They are evidently beat up that bad. I didnt  see anyone signing contract papers


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> Did you know that for the first time EVER all wyndham properties, booking, reservation, sales and everyone are all on the same system?


Everybody keeps saying that.
But last week I called in about an expiration date under my VIP status and OC said they couldn't see it.
I made sure they were looking at the same page on my account. They stated it wasn't showing on their end. They were either lying or it simply wasn't there on their screen but it was on mine with both of us looking at the same time. So off to triage to see if they see it


----------



## ilya

Braindead said:


> Your not picking on me. I simply posted the current spin.
> I didn't say I agreed or it was factual.
> The shocker to me is how they didn't even push sales. They are evidently beat up that bad. I didnt  see anyone signing contract papers




I just heard someone bought at Ocean walk last week. They were told you can still do the cancel/upgrade with in 60 days . Was given 300 ,000 bonus points and maintenance fee was $52/month. Loan payment $200/month.. There must be a spin with the maintenance fee and loan payment.


----------



## WalnutBaron

happyhopian said:


> As one who practices their learnings I would ask you this. In your opinion is Wyndham in trouble IF they are registered as a trustee and they have a conflict in that they make money from the decisions they are making on behalf of the trust? Now ask yourself IF in fact their decision for the TRUST improves THEIR bottom line while diminishing value from others what is your answer? And finally, take the minority representation analysis - are they willing to put aside their own benefit for the benefit of the least? Regardless of what the sales contract provides for there are specific limitations on the actions of trustees.
> 
> As to the website failures. I don't think they are intentional in that they went looking to destroy it, but I do think they rushed to get something in place to meet some needs or goals we don't know about (insert Ron's speculation about his personal interaction here). BUT, this isn't our backyard tree fort - this is a billion dollar operation and if THIS is the level of management and professionalism then one has to start asking about their fiduciary duty.
> 
> Contracts are contracts but as lawyer you know that you cannot contact away your rights or any federal/state statues. Wyndham can make us sign anything they want but they cannot require less of themselves than the law requires. This is where my beef with them is and I've done a good bit of talking with the regulatory agencies in the last month about it. Don't know if anything comes of it, but I can assure you they are interested and they questions are being looked at but I'm curious your opinion as well.


If you look back at Post 1274 in this discussion thread, I believe Cayman got closest to the real reason this whole mess happened: the very integrity of the Wyndham trust was at stake because of years of mismanagement allowing VIP's to upgrade without having sufficient inventory in the system to satisfy all of the members' confirmed demand. The new website was supposed to help trust management take control over the situation in an orderly, seamless manner over time once it was released with WYN management exercising more forceful control over existing rules that had not been enforced and which WYN's VC's had even been encouraged to violate in the past for VIP owners. 

The problem was that the new website was not going to be ready nearly in time, because the trust was in danger of imminent collapse--and then there _would_ be massive grounds for lawsuits. WYN management had a terrible decision to make: do we wait for the website to go through complete testing, which could take months, or do we rush this thing out there to put a finger in the dike before the whole thing comes down? And the answer, of course, is that the *website would be both the fall guy and the straw man*. It would focus owners' anger on the website while--like the Wizard Of Oz--asking owners to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

Management could handle wrath. It could handle charges of incompetence. It could not handle the massive lawsuits. It could not wait for the dike to break, and it could not survive the collapse of the trust. There was a run on the bank, even though the depositors didn't know it. They couldn't close the doors or create undue panic, so they threw out Great New Rates For Our Best Customers!!! as the straw man to keep owners from focusing on the _real_ mess.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> The second point is where they said there is not cancel rebook. That is not true. I've done it and others are figuring out how. It will be less ,but it is and will happen.
> 
> Comicbookman had it right in a post above. They haven't changed the rules. They just changed how things are working.
> 
> Think about that for a minute. They didn't change the rules (and Lord knows they could have added that in with all the recent rule changes).
> 
> Here we are all guessing what they intended and wanted, so ask yourself this. If their intention was to stop cancel rebook, why not make is crystal clear and add a rule saying that this is not allowed in addition to their system changes.


In the future the cancel rebook should only work on the smallest units at high demand times.
The main reason you can still do it today is the auto upgrade isn't working in real time.
If the auto upgrade doesn't work in real time. They didn't change anything. Cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade will be exactly as in the past if it's not real time.
You cancel anything but the smallest unit it should be someone elses upgrade.
If you try to cancel-rebook. Then cancel a larger unit. You won't get the upgrade because you lost your place in line for the upgrade.


----------



## 55plus

ilya said:


> I just heard someone bought at Ocean walk last week. They were told you can still do the cancel/upgrade with in 60 days . Was given 300 ,000 bonus points and maintenance fee was $52/month. Loan payment $200/month.. There must be a spin with the maintenance fee and loan payment.


Nothing will change - sales weasels will continue to lie, twist the facts and tell half truths. That's their job: lie and say anything to make a sale. They are free to say whatever they have to to make a sale because buried in the contract the new owner (the mark) signs releases the sales weasels and Wyndham from the lies told upon the purchase, in so many words. If statements made during the sale process were to be held as fact timeshare sales would drop off considerably.


----------



## lost patience

*In the last 5 days...Is the upgrade batch job running?? Has anyone a REQUESTED UPGRADE been matched lately?? Has anyone else received notices to take away upgrades previously granted?*

Here are my experiences:
- NO requested upgrades have been matched.  Yet - I HAVE booked the exact same dates with instant upgrade
- I have NOT received upgrade revoke notice (I did receive revoke notice last week, but not in the last 5 days)
- I had one reservation that showed upgraded in my owner list, but the resort did NOT honor the upgrade.  
- I have had several reservations that would not cancel.
--- Wyndham did provide refund of the points for 1 reservation.  They are listed as "goodwill award". 
--- One reservation just disappeared.  It does not show on my cancelled reservation list.  There are not any points adjustments.  I DO have a screen show showing it.  (Time to call again....)
- Items I cancel typically do NOT show up again.  As auto upgrade does not seem to be working, I started watching carefully, but only on a rare occasion do I see the cancelled unit reappear.  This applies to 1br as well as larger units.  
- VC told me that they only worked overtime the week after the new system went online.


----------



## Sandy VDH

lost patience said:


> *In the last 5 days...Is the upgrade batch job running?? Has anyone a REQUESTED UPGRADE been matched lately?? *
> 
> Here are my experiences:
> - NO requested upgrades have been matched.  Yet - I HAVE booked the exact same dates with instant upgrade



Thanks,  

I am still seeking proof that the upgrade batch is working, so NOT yet any positive reports to show that it has, yet plenty of proof to show it is not.


----------



## ecwinch

55plus said:


> As I stated previously, why eliminate some features and degrade search functions on a new website unless it was by design? Does anyone have a legitimate answer? Perhaps to benefit Wyndham and Extra Holidays. . .?



Was it by design? Certainly.

But anyone who has spent time in the software development field knows this is exactly what you get when you throw a bunch of requirements over the fence to programmers, and said programmers make a bunch of assumptions of what people "want" and how people use what they have. Typical ivory tower programming with programmers who dont understand the system they are replacing.

But nothing malicious here. Just poorly articulated requirements and a flawed software development process. I have seen this so many times with software projects. Incompetence - yes. Fraud - no.


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> If that's exactly what Wyndham intended. Why are we all going through this mess with the new website ?


There are lots of reasons - waitlisting, reduce rental competition for Wyndham, put all resorts on the same booking reservation as call centers. Remember this isn't just a website change. Any IT person here (for which there seems to be a lot) will tell you the front end is the least of their issues right now. It's the database that is causing the corruption. The front end can do anything they want, they just have to allow it. I think we are all being WAY to simplistic to think this is just about c/r. That gets folks like you and COSkier and others all ginned up and probably allows them cover for all the screwups to say things will be so much better now but you've got some serious experience like Ron and Comicbookman telling you that they've been here before and they've watched people adapt and make way. Again - if they wanted to stop c/r they would have simply added that in the last amendment - even a whiff - it's not there because they don't care IMHO.

I called yesterday on my way back from my resort stay. Held for just over 90 minutes to get owner care making my weekly call to resolve the negative points/lost points/wrongly returning to wrong use year points issues that they are trying to fix for thousands of owners. On that call I specifically asked if they could cancel and rebook a unit for me and they guy said sure and then went on to tell me that I might need to book the other unit first, cancel, then cancel and rebook...he went through and entire scenario before saying (like they always have) now you realize you could lose this unit if we cancel it. At which point I said eh, let's not do that. My point being. They have no problems but the downside ricks has increased significantly because of the new upgrade system.

The upgrade system is what has caused all this stir - and the interpreted killing or wounding of c/r. Let's think about that. Was that really an attempt to kill c/r or was it an attempt to beat the bots that were snagging every unit hour by hour before any human could do so. There have been two rumors for years about voyager. Wait listing for reservations (something RCI - a Wyndham company already offers) and wait listing for upgrades. My opinion (and I guessing here like all of you) they were implementing features owners have previously asked for along with some trust management issues which have been problematic like the push forward credit pool Ron has spoken in great detail about.

C/R is not dead. It won't be as prevalent and the Mega's will not be able to use the bots and the reloads to catch inventory as they use to but I promise you it is not dead AND it is not prohibited any more than the guy who goes to walmart on black friday and buys his limits of xboxes with the full intention of going to sell them on ebay to people who didn't feel like getting up at 1am.

When Wyndham inserts a rule that says 'a member may not cancel a unit previously reserved and rebook the same style unit for the purposes of gaining a discount during the discount period" then I will agree that this is prohibited by Wyndham. Enforceable or not, that would make things clear. It would shut down employees talking about it and doing it. With all the changes Wyndham made to the rules that one was a bit obvious to have been left out IF that was their intentions. I don't think it was. I don't think they care to that level and with the screw ups they are dealing with right now and the dozen of folks I've talked to in the last month - I guarantee you it's not on their radar today.


----------



## Roger830

ecwinch said:


> Was it by design? Certainly.
> But nothing malicious here. Just poorly articulated requirements and a flawed software development process. I have seen this so many times with software projects. Incompetence - yes. Fraud - no.



This seems the most likely scenario.

When I supported a small manufacturing company IT, except for minor requests, it was often difficult to determine what was really needed to fulfill a requirement. Not a whole lot of thought was put into what was actually required. I would usually develop a project in steps working with the users to feel out what was needed.

It seems that with Wyndham, the users were ignored until after implementation.


----------



## happyhopian

ilya said:


> I'd really like to know more about what the manager told you and what the website changes are about. I've thought about it for a while and believe it goes much deeper than meets the eye..


Ya know that's a funny question. I've talked to him for years about getting things done and taking care of my people (and my family) but I've just never had a reason to ask about procedures and such. I do now and he was more than willing to talk. We had coffee for two hours and he vented while I vented.

Get this - he had never seen the owner's website. He had no idea what the front end looked like or how it operated. Now remember the resorts are not in reservations. Their system is totally different and he showed me. Theirs is more of a search engine, look up records interface. They have many reports on usage, checkin/out, fees, they have some management reporting tools but no ability to make a reservation. I will say that their ability to look at inventory and check availability is MUCH more broad than ours. He pulled up a screen that showed the count of availability per room type for each week and you could drill down into that week to see the details. So this makes me think the front end functionality is of course on their radar but I doubt they are rolling out anything new until they fix the current issues - which are NOT front end (website) issues.

The biggest benefit to them is real time data. According to him, in the past there was a scheduled download and merge of data from the call centers to the resorts. This is why we could call a couple of weeks out and they had no idea who was staying in a unit and/or guest confirmations got messed up. Now it is all real time. He could see my reservations and my confirmations out for months at his resort. He could see my room assignment and make changes to shift inventory. For the resorts he said this is a total game changer in room management and guest service.

The more I learn about this the more I am convinced that Wyndham was stupid (if not worse) for trying to roll out something SO big and so complicated with such short notice and right at the beginning of summer. BUT I am also realizing that they had several limitations none of us know about. What are these resort systems? Are they old mainframe, oracle, IBM are the data terminals or do they have jave/html5 cloud functionality to do all of this in a WAN as opposed to a lan system? I am seeing more limitations in what they had to build to get everyone on the same page, with the expectations that from there they could begin broadening the abilities -- that is, until it blew up and corrupted in the transfer which it what has been confirmed by many. Now they are writing code on a live database trying to find the issues which is still causing corruption. My credit pool is the perfect example. I had 1 million credit pool points at transfer. As those points have been used and cancelled they are going back to the most random use years. Where they started in a may 2017-2020 use pot they are ending up in 2019-2020 2016-2017 and yes some are going back to 2017-2020 but at a reduced rate than what was credited back EVEN THOUGH my transaction history shows the correct points being returned. Wyndham is aware of this problem and it is affecting tens of thousands I have been told.

Had they done this in pieces over a year they would have had great success and we would all be happier, though some would still be unhappy and that's expected. This however by the measure of everyone including the resort manager I spoke with - has been a total failure and the ramifications have been HUGE.

Look when the girl at the parking pass desk is nodding her head in shame when I ask if she's seen the wyndham facebook page - it's bad.


----------



## happyhopian

WalnutBaron said:


> with WYN management exercising more forceful control over existing rules that had not been enforced and which WYN's VC's had even been encouraged to violate in the past for VIP owners.
> 
> 
> Management could handle wrath. It could handle charges of incompetence. It could not handle the massive lawsuits. It could not wait for the dike to break, and it could not survive the collapse of the trust.



As to the trust yes, but as Ron has endlessly pointed out - this was about credit pooling -though he will tell you it shouldn't impact the trust as the points are being paid for. When you push 2-3 years worth of points into one year, at the level of MILLIONS and as high as tens of millions, two things are going to happen. Inventory is going to dissappear and if they're are no failsafes, you're going to end up with a points management/inventory problem. THIS is where the trust was having issues - not cancel rebook which is simply usable inventory being used (fairly or unfairly) there is no impact on the trust at 60 days usage AFTER wyndham takes their cut for 60 days. The crisis IMHO was the growing number of people figuring out what Ron had been taught. AND let us not forget that something went wrong in the old system too. Remember for the last year folks were getting credited back double and triple points on cancellations. We don't know what we don't know but damn we are all enjoying speculating 

AS to the more forcefully enforcing existing rules, will you please send me the page cite where cancel/rebook it not allowed or even referenced in the fairfield, wyndham past or newly revised rule sets. This is the 'rumor' that keeps festering animosity among people. Cancel / Rebook is no different than the guys waiting in line all night at walmart to buy out the xbox so he can sell them on ebay. Walmart instilled a limit on how many you can buy. So now he takes his wife. Wyndham implemented changes that will create limits too - 48hr guest cert and such. These will limit the megas who were booking like drunk sailors in hopes they could rent out, and in many cases would just expire the units if they didn't book. That in my opinion was more hurtful to owners than if they had been returned (and there are several on here that can explain to you why they didn't care if they lost the points because they had historical results that they were more likely to rent in the last 14 days than actually lose the points but it did happen). 

I stand by my opinion from all the calls I've had that the upgrade feature is a results of the waitlisting requests that have been circulating for years because again - if they were attempting to outlaw something wouldn't you create a rule ESPECIALLY if you are already rewriting the rules at the same time, yet not a single mention.


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> You cancel anything but the smallest unit it should be someone elses upgrade.
> If you try to cancel-rebook. Then cancel a larger unit. You won't get the upgrade because you lost your place in line for the upgrade.


This is the exact question of analysis for those who want to use c/r. Your assumption is very basic and misses a few points which you would need to consider.

1. When is this c/r taking place? 
At 60-46 days you are only competing against platinum owners. Silver and likely gold will NEVER have the chance to make this happen but platinum will seeing that less than 10% of ownership is platinum and how much of that is booking at the same resort, in the same windows?

2. What is the number of offerings in the system? 
If there are lots of different views, room sizes, handicap, hearing and such each one of those are going to be in different 'upgrade' paths.

3. What window did you book rebook? There is an argument to be made that you can book multiple bookings, pay the guest fee (or use multiple owners - you'd darn sure add a name for $299 than pay $100 multiple times). With multiple rooms you stand a better change in the upgrade process. Same actions as before.

4. What is the pattern of the upgrade system? Is it immediate, 12 hours, 4 hours, 1 hour? These are database questions. As of now units are not returning immediately to inventory as confirmed by a few people here. Also upgrades are NOT happening as they have units inline to upgrade AND they are seeing the inventory return. AND points are not returning immediately, (though it can be, it can also be 10min-1 hour according to wyndham rep I spoke with). No idea if this is temporary or a problem with running backside inventory checks before running the scripts which might be creating duplicated inventory issues.

These are only a few of the issues some of us have been discussing in private chats and in open posts. And know this - if us middle schoolers are talking about this stuff don't you think the folks with 35 - 100 million points in management pools are talking about it with some paid help!!!


----------



## happyhopian

ecwinch said:


> But nothing malicious here. Just poorly articulated requirements and a flawed software development process. I have seen this so many times with software projects. Incompetence - yes. Fraud - no.



Agreed to this extent - are they working to protect THEIR assets more than the owners? Are they still getting their inventory for extra holidays even though owners cannot book? Fraud doesn't generally start with fraud. It's the coverup that convicts. I do not think anyone is this stupid to walk into a fan blade as they have done, but I do think they are stupid enough to try and fix the problems affecting them to the demise of the ownership knowing that no one has the money, time or interest to go after them to undo it.


----------



## cayman01

happyhopian said:


> This is the exact question of analysis for those who want to use c/r. Your assumption is very basic and misses a few points which you would need to consider.
> 
> 1. When is this c/r taking place?
> At 60-46 days you are only competing against platinum owners. Silver and likely gold will NEVER have the chance to make this happen but platinum will seeing that less than 10% of ownership is platinum and how much of that is booking at the same resort, in the same windows?
> 
> 2. What is the number of offerings in the system?
> If there are lots of different views, room sizes, handicap, hearing and such each one of those are going to be in different 'upgrade' paths.
> 
> 3. What window did you book rebook? There is an argument to be made that you can book multiple bookings, pay the guest fee (or use multiple owners - you'd darn sure add a name for $299 than pay $100 multiple times). With multiple rooms you stand a better change in the upgrade process. Same actions as before.
> 
> 4. What is the pattern of the upgrade system? Is it immediate, 12 hours, 4 hours, 1 hour? These are database questions. As of now units are not returning immediately to inventory as confirmed by a few people here. Also upgrades are NOT happening as they have units inline to upgrade AND they are seeing the inventory return. AND points are not returning immediately, (though it can be, it can also be 10min-1 hour according to wyndham rep I spoke with). No idea if this is temporary or a problem with running backside inventory checks before running the scripts which might be creating duplicated inventory issues.
> 
> These are only a few of the issues some of us have been discussing in private chats and in open posts. And know this - if us middle schoolers are talking about this stuff don't you think the folks with 35 - 100 million points in management pools are talking about it with some paid help!!!



 I think we can all agree that this is the end of cancel/rebook as it has been known. The rules have changed and that is that. You will STILL be able to cancel/rebook, but you're not going to have the easy success that used to be available. As has been stated, it is not illegal, there is no rule against it and Wyndham is not going to get rid of it. It's just going to be a lot harder to do successfully.

 I think Wyndham did this for two reasons. I don't think they care as much about Megarenters as they care about 4BR PRunits being rented, for a profit, for less than $1000 a week . Level the playing field there for Wyndham. The other reason is I believe Wyndham was tired of all the complaints about all the units being scooped up on the first day of availability. The irony is, with the new rules they will almost certainly go faster, but more people will get them.

 There is nothing wrong with these rule changes. The problem is the implementation has been a complete disaster. The new website is what we are truly all fired up about. If the new website had gone off without a hitch I think we ALL would be in agreement that we could live with it and the rule changes and we would be hard at work on workarounds. But that didn't happen.

 I think C&R is going to become R&C. Find a nicer unit at 60 days, book it at half points and cancel the original. Upgrades will happen for Platinum and on a much smaller level Gold and Silver but only when the databases get fixed and that might not be til next year. With tens of thousands of errors as has been reported it is going to take that long to fix I believe. Don't look for the automatic upgrade working properly any time soon. You might get one, but odds are it will get cancelled.


----------



## Baby Jane

happyhopian said:


> he doesn't know. He just didn't like the fact that people used their points, as they were allowed to and got more for their ownership than others did. I appreciate that position just as I do the folks who waited in line overnight at bestbuy and bought all the xboxes I wanted to get for my kid a few years back.



Not sure why he's mad we used our points to get more out of them. Besides the high maintenance those who bought a million or more points also for the most part paid a small fortune. Shouldn't someone who spend $100000 be getting more than someone who spent $13000 to $25000. We live in a world where everyone thinks everything should be equal. Maybe he would feel better if we all donated our


Sandy VDH said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I am still seeking proof that the upgrade batch is working, so NOT yet any positive reports to show that it has, yet plenty of proof to show it is not.



If upgrade is available when booking it works fine but none of my other bookings are in upgrade window


----------



## Sandy VDH

Yes more examples of WTF... somehow between the reservation summary and the next trip info it shifted the stay forward by a day.  Now my dates didn't change but my guess is that somewhere there are using different timezones that is perhaps shifting the display by a day. Don't know what else would shift it, without actually changing it.


----------



## paxsarah

cayman01 said:


> I think C&R is going to become R&C. Find a nicer unit at 60 days, book it at half points and cancel the original. Upgrades will happen for Platinum and on a much smaller level Gold and Silver but only when the databases get fixed and that might not be til next year. With tens of thousands of errors as has been reported it is going to take that long to fix I believe. Don't look for the automatic upgrade working properly any time soon. You might get one, but odds are it will get cancelled.



As just sort of a curious bystander, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks a decent percentage of the upgrade opportunities are going to come around the 15-day mark when people (either unsuccessful renters or regular vacationers with a change of plans) will cancel to get their points back? This would be good for silver (and gold) VIPs who booked early and put in their upgrade request right away. (Assuming that when the system is functioning properly, that inside 30 days there's no priority given for VIP level and it goes solely by earliest request date.)


----------



## 55plus

Sandy VDH said:


> Yes more examples of WTF... somehow between the reservation summary and the next trip info it shifted the stay forward by a day.  Now my dates didn't change but my guess is that somewhere there are using different timezones that is perhaps shifting the display by a day. Don't know what else would shift it, without actually changing it.View attachment 4209


This is one of many 'screw-ups' one would expect with a forced implementation of a dysfunctional piece of crap website shoved down our throats by Wyndham.


----------



## ronparise

happyhopian said:


> As to the trust yes, but as Ron has endlessly pointed out - this was about credit pooling -though he will tell you it shouldn't impact the trust as the points are being paid for. When you push 2-3 years worth of points into one year, at the level of MILLIONS and as high as tens of millions, two things are going to happen. Inventory is going to dissappear and if they're are no failsafes, you're going to end up with a points management/inventory problem. THIS is where the trust was having issues - not cancel rebook which is simply usable inventory being used (fairly or unfairly) there is no impact on the trust at 60 days usage AFTER wyndham takes their cut for 60 days. The crisis IMHO was the growing number of people figuring out what Ron had been taught. AND let us not forget that something went wrong in the old system too. Remember for the last year folks were getting credited back double and triple points on cancellations. We don't know what we don't know but damn we are all enjoying speculating
> 
> AS to the more forcefully enforcing existing rules, will you please send me the page cite where cancel/rebook it not allowed or even referenced in the fairfield, wyndham past or newly revised rule sets. This is the 'rumor' that keeps festering animosity among people. Cancel / Rebook is no different than the guys waiting in line all night at walmart to buy out the xbox so he can sell them on ebay. Walmart instilled a limit on how many you can buy. So now he takes his wife. Wyndham implemented changes that will create limits too - 48hr guest cert and such. These will limit the megas who were booking like drunk sailors in hopes they could rent out, and in many cases would just expire the units if they didn't book. That in my opinion was more hurtful to owners than if they had been returned (and there are several on here that can explain to you why they didn't care if they lost the points because they had historical results that they were more likely to rent in the last 14 days than actually lose the points but it did happen).
> 
> I stand by my opinion from all the calls I've had that the upgrade feature is a results of the waitlisting requests that have been circulating for years because again - if they were attempting to outlaw something wouldn't you create a rule ESPECIALLY if you are already rewriting the rules at the same time, yet not a single mention.



The pulling future points into the current year with the old credit pool should not have been a trust problem if it had worked properly. The way it was supposed to work was, if I deposited 2018 points into the pool and wanted to use them in 2017, there had to have been someone else's 2017 points on deposit.  It was possible that the pool would be  "empty" for a particular year and if that was the case, I would have had to wait for another deposit. 

I always pooled everything.  .  One of the reasons I promoted the use of the pool here and on facebook was "insurance" I wanted to be sure as i could be, that there were points in the pool when I wanted to make a reservation

I have no idea whether Wyndham checked to make sure there were enough 2017 points in the pool when I made 2017 reservations. If they didnt;   there would absolutely be problems with the trust. For the last several years I maintained a 10 million point ownership, and adding  20 million points a year, and I pooled  everything, I cane into January with 30 million, sold 20 and bought 20 .... so using 2015 as my example.. On Jan 2nd  I pooled 10 million 2018 points, and started buying with the goal of buying 20 million points by December,  As those new contracts came in I pooled the points so by the end of the year there were another 60 million points in the pool (and I sold contracts (20 million points worth) throughout the year)

And I knew of several other guys who used it more aggressively than I ever did

But as I say, it shouldnt have been a problem if Wyndham managed it properly.

Regarding cancel and rebook.  This technique is nothing that Wyndham can "outlaw" ie there is a cancellation policy anyone can cancel at any time and of course anyone can make a reservation from available inventory at any time.  All we were doing is to do the two transactions one right after the other. 

Wyndhan didnt like cancel and rebook. I could go into a long discussion as to why, but it would be nothing but good guesses. Lets just accept the fact that they didnt like it. and that they have intended to stop it for a long time. Those of us that used c/r a lot, knew it couldnt last. In fact there were two rules that if they had enforced them would have ended it, One was the commercial use prohibition and the other was the no unfair advantage rule. The only question was what exactly were they going to do to stop it.  There were several possibilities discussed here,

a waiting list like with RCI or Worldmark (both Wyndham clubs)
a random delay before cancelled inventory would return to inventory
stop extending VIP benefits to resale points in a VIP account

What wyndham actually did was, as another tugger put it.. "clever"  Instead of introducing a new rule to prohibit anything, they introduced a new VIP benefit;. "auto upgrades", the intended consequence of which, would be that my cancellation becomes someone elses upgrade.  The other thing it does is to frustrate the guys that are still using bots.

So when you demand  "send me the page cite where cancel/rebook it not allowed"  and suggest that if its not specifically outlawed, it must be allowed, You are wrong..Using your ownership for commercial purposes and manipulating the program to gain an unfair advantage over other owners are already disallowed.   You can still cancel, and you can still make reservations from available inventory, but the new auto upgrade feature is meant to make it difficult, if not impossible,  manipulate the system to get a high value 3 bedroom reservation at half the studio price,  to rent (commercial purpose) or even to use yourself.

and when you ask "if they were attempting to outlaw something wouldn't you create a rule?"  The answer is no. Wyndham is smarter or more clever than that. They didnt write a new rule to end the practice, they introduced a new benefit


----------



## happyhopian

paxsarah said:


> As just sort of a curious bystander, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks a decent percentage of the upgrade opportunities are going to come around the 15-day mark when people (either unsuccessful renters or regular vacationers with a change of plans) will cancel to get their points back? This would be good for silver (and gold) VIPs who booked early and put in their upgrade request right away. (Assuming that when the system is functioning properly, that inside 30 days there's no priority given for VIP level and it goes solely by earliest request date.)


I've been doing this for 6 years - not as long as others but I have rarely (maybe never) see large units come back into inventory inside 15 days but that was the old system. As of right now I'm watching a couple and I can tell you nothing is moving but that is likely the result of the current system (and by watching I mean checking in every 8-12 hours)
Rob and AM1 as well as others can likely explain they reason why many renters don't cancel units at the 15 day mark. I've read before where they have posted about the cost (or loss) versus the last minute rentals. Does that change in the new system, dunno - maybe they will opine from their current perspective.


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> I have no idea whether Wyndham checked to make sure there were enough 2017 points in the pool when I made 2017 reservations. If they didnt;   there would absolutely be problems with the trust.



Come on man - you been out drinking on that boat!

Looking at the current website implementation and your own personal experience you know the answer to this question but you want to be kind to Wyndham since they know who you are and they most certainly follow you. I understand


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> Regarding cancel and rebook.  This technique is nothing that Wyndham can "outlaw" ie there is a cancellation policy anyone can cancel at any time and of course anyone can make a reservation from available inventory at any time.  All we were doing is to do the two transactions one right after the other.
> 
> Wyndhan didnt like cancel and rebook. I could go into a long discussion as to why, but it would be nothing but good guesses. Lets just accept the fact that they didnt like it. and that they have intended to stop it for a long time. Those of us that used c/r a lot, knew it couldnt last. In fact there were two rules that if they had enforced them would have ended it, One was the commercial use prohibition and the other was the no unfair advantage rule.


Neither of those rules apply. I don't use my c/r for commercial use and it is not an unfair advantage in fact it is one I paid for, one that was promoted and one that was executed by wyndham employees. I'm ok with people not liking it but I've been accused here of violating rules I want to be perfectly clear and challenge ANYONE to prove other wise. There is not and has never been a rule prohibiting c/r and you are wrong. They could in fact post the rule and if anyone called in to do it the VC would have to say I cannot do that because it is in violation of the wyndham rules and the sales people couldn't promote it because it is in violation of the wyndham rules.

Folks who bought VIP platinum paid $100k plus PER 1 million points. They are entitled to the discounts, book, hold cancel anyway they see fit. It is ridiculous for ANYONE to suggest that the ownership purchased for $12,000 should have the same benefits as the one purchased for $120,000. That is just silly communism thinking.

There's a lot of banter that goes on here but we need to be perfectly clear on this - c/r has NEVER been against any rules any more than the guy who goes to walmart on black friday and buys his limit of xboxes to sell on ebay. Others don't like it but that is his right. This nonsense about unfair gain can't be applicable because Wyndham was and still is executing that program. In fact people on here have done the cancel rebook this month - I've done it and discussed it with a VC just this week.

I like what Cayman said - it is what it is and its going to be different going forward (and I like my odds on getting the system to work for what I want because  my platinum ownership will give me a huge advantage). But I will rise up anytime anyone wants to get into a debate about rule breaking, outlawing, changes being implemented to avert an tyranical c/r system that was depriving people and stealing money from wyndham through the booking of a 3br at 50% the cost of a 1 bedroom - read this closely OF COURSE THEY KNEW THIS THEY'VE BEEN GIVING OWNER UPDATES ON IT FOR 10 YEARS.

Now let's get back to bitching about how bad the website sucks


----------



## cayman01

paxsarah said:


> As just sort of a curious bystander, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks a decent percentage of the upgrade opportunities are going to come around the 15-day mark when people (either unsuccessful renters or regular vacationers with a change of plans) will cancel to get their points back? This would be good for silver (and gold) VIPs who booked early and put in their upgrade request right away. (Assuming that when the system is functioning properly, that inside 30 days there's no priority given for VIP level and it goes solely by earliest request date.)



I think that will depend on how they run the upgrades. If they are run in real time, yes there will be upgrades at 15 days. If the upgrades are done in batches after midnight you will not see near as many upgrades as units will be taken by owners looking for those 15 day cancellations to book.


----------



## happyhopian

cayman01 said:


> I think that will depend on how they run the upgrades. If they are run in real time, yes there will be upgrades at 15 days. If the upgrades are done in batches after midnight you will not see near as many upgrades as units will be taken by owners looking for those 15 day cancellations to book.


I agree with you in part and the question sarah has about the upgrade scripts running is really key here. Now again, I haven't seen any 3brs come back at Bonnet Creek inside 15 days in the year's I've been doing this BUT for the analysis I would ask - does this put a priority on the rank of VIP tier or just earliest to select upgrade path? I honestly don't know but it has been said that it is VIP rank and then earliest date of upgrade active reservation. Even with a working website I don't know that we will know.


----------



## Avislo

Here is another number to try for complaints, it is what they call the Executive Response Team for Corporate, they are not Owner Services/Owner Care.  407 626 5932

You call in leave a message and they are supposed to call back within 24 hours or if called on a weekend, the following Monday.


----------



## CYRUS2400

happyhopian said:


> Neither of those rules apply. I don't use my c/r for commercial use and it is not an unfair advantage in fact it is one I paid for, one that was promoted and one that was executed by wyndham employees. I'm ok with people not liking it but I've been accused here of violating rules I want to be perfectly clear and challenge ANYONE to prove other wise. There is not and has never been a rule prohibiting c/r and you are wrong. They could in fact post the rule and if anyone called in to do it the VC would have to say I cannot do that because it is in violation of the wyndham rules and the sales people couldn't promote it because it is in violation of the wyndham rules.
> 
> Folks who bought VIP platinum paid $100k plus PER 1 million points. They are entitled to the discounts, book, hold cancel anyway they see fit. It is ridiculous for ANYONE to suggest that the ownership purchased for $12,000 should have the same benefits as the one purchased for $120,000. That is just silly communism thinking.
> 
> There's a lot of banter that goes on here but we need to be perfectly clear on this - c/r has NEVER been against any rules any more than the guy who goes to walmart on black friday and buys his limit of xboxes to sell on ebay. Others don't like it but that is his right. This nonsense about unfair gain can't be applicable because Wyndham was and still is executing that program. In fact people on here have done the cancel rebook this month - I've done it and discussed it with a VC just this week.
> 
> I like what Cayman said - it is what it is and its going to be different going forward (and I like my odds on getting the system to work for what I want because  my platinum ownership will give me a huge advantage). But I will rise up anytime anyone wants to get into a debate about rule breaking, outlawing, changes being implemented to avert an tyranical c/r system that was depriving people and stealing money from wyndham through the booking of a 3br at 50% the cost of a 1 bedroom - read this closely OF COURSE THEY KNEW THIS THEY'VE BEEN GIVING OWNER UPDATES ON IT FOR 10 YEARS.
> 
> Now let's get back to bitching about how bad the website sucks



The Website Sucks.  And, I want the 3 year Credit Pool Reinstated!!!


----------



## ronparise

happyhopian said:


> Neither of those rules apply. I don't use my c/r for commercial use and it is not an unfair advantage in fact it is one I paid for, one that was promoted and one that was executed by wyndham employees. I'm ok with people not liking it but I've been accused here of violating rules I want to be perfectly clear and challenge ANYONE to prove other wise. There is not and has never been a rule prohibiting c/r and you are wrong. They could in fact post the rule and if anyone called in to do it the VC would have to say I cannot do that because it is in violation of the wyndham rules and the sales people couldn't promote it because it is in violation of the wyndham rules.
> 
> Folks who bought VIP platinum paid $100k plus PER 1 million points. They are entitled to the discounts, book, hold cancel anyway they see fit. It is ridiculous for ANYONE to suggest that the ownership purchased for $12,000 should have the same benefits as the one purchased for $120,000. That is just silly communism thinking.
> 
> There's a lot of banter that goes on here but we need to be perfectly clear on this - c/r has NEVER been against any rules any more than the guy who goes to walmart on black friday and buys his limit of xboxes to sell on ebay. Others don't like it but that is his right. This nonsense about unfair gain can't be applicable because Wyndham was and still is executing that program. In fact people on here have done the cancel rebook this month - I've done it and discussed it with a VC just this week.
> 
> I like what Cayman said - it is what it is and its going to be different going forward (and I like my odds on getting the system to work for what I want because  my platinum ownership will give me a huge advantage). But I will rise up anytime anyone wants to get into a debate about rule breaking, outlawing, changes being implemented to avert an tyranical c/r system that was depriving people and stealing money from wyndham through the booking of a 3br at 50% the cost of a 1 bedroom - read this closely OF COURSE THEY KNEW THIS THEY'VE BEEN GIVING OWNER UPDATES ON IT FOR 10 YEARS.
> 
> Now let's get back to bitching about how bad the website sucks




exactly right,  there is no rule that says you cant cancel, and there is no rule that you cant make a reservation. and there is no rule that says you cant do one right after the other

But doing it so as to get a 3 bedroom at half the studio price is seen by many (including Wyndham)(especially Wyndham) as a manipulation of the system to gain an advantage over other owners. It is also the manipulation that some of us used to make a commercial rental operation profitable. 

So they are going to stop it, It dosent matter whether you think you are entitled or not. They may not get it stopped with this round of rule changes, but its gonna stop. 
Id bet my last dollar on that


----------



## raygo123

In ones discount window, I have a chicken or egg question.  There are two competing benefits, instant upgrades and VIP discount.  Is Wyndham going to fill upgrades first, or let owners book available units at a discount?


Or are those bastards going to take all for their own rentals?  That would take care of the conspiracy theorists.
Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

I


happyhopian said:


> Come on man - you been out drinking on that boat!
> 
> Looking at the current website implementation and your own personal experience you know the answer to this question but you want to be kind to Wyndham since they know who you are and they most certainly follow you. I understand


Im telling you the way it was supposed to work. I assume they didnt do things right. and the rule changes were made to correct for that

Dont shoot the messenger. But what you spent $120000 for is no different than what someone else spent $12000 for except that you get to make more reservations, and you get discounts and upgrades on whats available inside 60 days. You do not have the right to create your own availability no matter what the salesman said 

(by the way I paid less than $12000 each for my 5 Platinum accounts)

The money we spend on this stuff dosent mean anything to anybody. One guys $100000 Mercedes dosent give him the right to go 5 times as fast on the Interstate as I can in my $20000 used Ford. We  both have to play by  the same rules.

Whether Im right or wrong about this stuff is of no consequence. It only matters how Wyndham interprets and enforces the rules


----------



## bnoble

ronparise said:


> I have no idea whether Wyndham checked to make sure there were enough 2017 points in the pool when I made 2017 reservations.


I think there is evidence that they did, because the Pool did "run dry" from time to time before the VIP pooling deadlines were all made later in the UY. Once those deadlines changed, there were enough traffic to handle the reservation load.



ronparise said:


> But doing it so as to get a 3 bedroom at half the studio price is seen by many (including Wyndham)(especially Wyndham) as a manipulation of the system to gain an advantage over other owners.


Reading between the lines a little bit, what angered the powers-that-be wasn't even this drastic. It was the simple, systematic use of C/R to get discounts on inventory that was otherwise in high demand, and booked up well before the 60 day window.


----------



## Braindead

Baby Jane said:


> Not sure why he's mad we used our points to get more out of them. Besides the high maintenance those who bought a million or more points also for the most part paid a small fortune. Shouldn't someone who spend $100000 be getting more than someone who spent $13000 to $25000. We live in a world where everyone thinks everything should be equal. Maybe he would feel better if we all donated our


I'm not mad at all.
VIPs are supposed to get more out of their points. I sure hope so I'm Platinum with you.
I've used cancel rebook
I responded to happyhopian using those terms. And wow did that blow up!

Did Wyndham tolerate cancel- rebook-cancel-upgrade ? Absolutely
Did Wyndham employees assist in the process? Absolutely
Was it illegal or against the rules at the highest demand times ? Depends on how you define unfair advantage and manipulating the system to ones advantage. Remember there were other VIPs wanting those reservations also.

I will use happyhopian Walmart xbox example to try and open some eyes-
Walmart puts out an ad Xbox on sale 12:00 AM
Some show up some don't to the sale. The key is everyone had that chance.

The problem with cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade you were trying to create your own sale at your own time. Sale was intended for one yourself.
If Wyndham would post all cancellations from the prior day at 9:am and open those reservations to all owners 12:00 PM. That's fair to all owners.
Everybody has their chance to show up at 12:00 PM

Back to Xbox what would happen if you show up 6 hours early when you want and they only have one Xbox and you put a price tag at the sale price ? Trying to create a sale for yourself
What if an employee helps you find the Xbox helps you put the sale price tag on and checks you out. Does that make it OK
Did everyone have a fair chance ?
Or did you gain an unfair advantage?


When Ron stated that until the audits and suspensions the upper management had no idea how much cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade was taking place. I believe Ron

When newbies come here and everybody is saying rescind-rescind.
Points are points at 10 months
Are you being honest ? Because now you are saying I paid more for my points. Get in line be hind me. I can manipulate and gain an unfair advantage for myself because I paid for it.

If you don't see it that way you really have the blinders on.


----------



## Braindead

Voyager was rushed and rolled before it was ready for 2 reasons.
1. The system was generating extra points. Did some take advantage after noticing more points were getting returned after a cancellation than  
    should be returned ? Your dam right. Maybe not anyone here but I will guarantee you some did.
2. Cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade was so prevalent that upper management became aware that it was creating a problem.

Voyager was still coming. Just not yet.

Credit pool was an easy fix and had nothing to do with the timing of the Voyager launch. 
All they had to do was to stop letting you credit pool future years so early.


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> But doing it so as to get a 3 bedroom at half the studio price is seen by many (including Wyndham)(especially Wyndham) as a manipulation of the system to gain an advantage over other owners. It is also the manipulation that some of us used to make a commercial rental operation profitable.
> 
> So they are going to stop it, It dosent matter whether you think you are entitled or not. They may not get it stopped with this round of rule changes, but its gonna stop.
> Id bet my last dollar on that


I haven't objected to their changes - I've objected to people like you characterizing it as wrong. That is simply not true and while you are entitled to your opinion you cannot position Wyndham to an opinion you might have heard from a guy or two or four when in fact their actions have been FULLY supportive of this opportunity. This bit about "(including Wyndham)(especially Wyndham)" it just wrong and you can keep saying it but it doesn't change the fact that they sold this. They implemented it. They executed it with no reservations or objections. They never adopted a rule (as impossible as it might have been to enforce) to even identify this as a wrong including the last round of changes to the rules where they could have said "we can't enforce it but for the record it's wrong". 

As for betting your last dollar - from what you've posted on here so far I think Wyndham has cost you enough I wouldn't be betting anymore on Wyndham but like your comments, that's my opinion as well.


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> I
> 
> Dont shoot the messenger. But what you spent $120000 for is no different than what someone else spent $12000 for except that you get to make more reservations, and you get discounts and upgrades on whats available inside 60 days. You do not have the right to create your own availability no matter what the salesman said
> 
> (by the way I paid less than $12000 each for my 5 Platinum accounts)
> 
> The money we spend on this stuff dosent mean anything to anybody. One guys $100000 Mercedes dosent give him the right to go 5 times as fast on the Interstate as I can in my $20000 used Ford. We  both have to play by  the same rules.
> 
> Whether Im right or wrong about this stuff is of no consequence. It only matters how Wyndham interprets and enforces the rules


We need an intervention here Ron. It might not allow me to go faster if I buy the more expensive car but I might get all my service covered, a longer warranty and certainly a better car. That is EXACTLY what VIP status got all of us and again. I paid less than what you paid for one platinum account for ALL of my 2.5 million points and platinum VIP status. As we've discussed previously. You're not the only one who found a grandfathering provision. I'm just stating what wyndham included as Value added in the developer sales bonuses. Now argue all you want you are right about one thing - it doesn't matter what you and I think its moving forward but no one can whitewash history and deem something as breaking the rules or manipulation of something for which no rules against were adopted and for which the owners of the system allowed, promoted and performed for members. That is just plain stupid to suggest otherwise, but please try again.


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> I will use happyhopian Walmart xbox example to try and open some eyes-
> Walmart puts out an ad Xbox on sale 12:00 AM
> Some show up some don't to the sale. The key is everyone had that chance.
> 
> The problem with cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade you were trying to create your own sale at your own time. Sale was intended for one yourself.
> If Wyndham would post all cancellations from the prior day at 9:am and open those reservations to all owners 12:00 PM. That's fair to all owners.
> Everybody has their chance to show up at 12:00 PM
> 
> Back to Xbox what would happen if you show up 6 hours early when you want and they only have one Xbox and you put a price tag at the sale price ? Trying to create a sale for yourself
> What if an employee helps you find the Xbox helps you put the sale price tag on and checks you out. Does that make it OK
> Did everyone have a fair chance ?
> Or did you gain an unfair advantage?



I can't tell you how many cancellations I lost in the process of doing a c/r and you're forgetting that every platinum owner had the same opportunity any other did. They could have booked a room and held it. They could also book the room at 59 days or even 60 and do their own cancellation - knowing that this was promoted at every owner update they had to have their head in the sand to not be doing it. 

The analogy of the xbox is the same. Everyone had the same chance - if you had the money to buy 4 xboxes or in this case enough points to hold and the cancel/rebook. Points are the same economy as money in the retails analogy.


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> Because now you are saying I paid more for my points. Get in line be hind me. I can manipulate and gain an unfair advantage for myself because I paid for it.



Yes that is exactly what I'm saying (thought I will argue with you all day it is not unfair, not prohibitive and in fact was promoted and encouraged by Wyndham). More importantly that is what Wyndham said when they called it VIP. A VIP doesn't just own more points than others, their points are in fact worth more and have special benefits others don't. Look I showed up at Bonnet Creek right at check in for Christmas and there were 50 people in line. I walked up to the VIP line and was called up with not even a two minute wait. Yes that means I get special treatment.

Here is the definition of VIP: person of greater influence or prestige; _especially_ : a high official with special privileges

The erosion of VIP benefits should trouble everyone because at what point do they choose to remove 50% of the CWA resorts and create a 'specialty' CWA that you can get access to by simply changing a rule? Everybody laughed when the government took his property, until they came taking theirs and yet there was no one left to defend them. Caution of the slippery slope.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

happyhopian said:


> Yes that is exactly what I'm saying and in fact that is what Wyndham said. A VIP doesn't just own more points than others, their points are in fact worth more and have special benefits others don't.
> 
> Here is the definition of VIP:   person of greater influence or prestige; _especially_ :  a high official with special privileges
> 
> The erosion of VIP benefits should trouble everyone .



POINT DEFLATION - apparently.


----------



## happyhopian

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> POINT DEFLATION - apparently.


HA! I love it!


----------



## happyhopian

duplicate


----------



## happyhopian

We have a genius among us and I can't remember who it was. About a year ago someone used the word 'silos' to describe how Wyndham was operating. It dawned on me today - this is exactly why they are having the problems they are having. The depth of CR, the depth of forward credit pooling, the lack of knowledge on how the reservation system is used and what search functions are necessary...just think these folks don't know and don't care what the other compartments are doing/thinking/needing. Legal might not have liked certain 'fairness' principles but sales was pushing the dog out of it.

Who ever that was NAILED it. SILOS = Wyndham management philosophy.


----------



## ronparise

happyhopian said:


> We need an intervention here Ron. It might not allow me to go faster if I buy the more expensive car but I might get all my service covered, a longer warranty and certainly a better car. That is EXACTLY what VIP status got all of us and again. I paid less than what you paid for one platinum account for ALL of my 2.5 million points and platinum VIP status. As we've discussed previously. You're not the only one who found a grandfathering provision. I'm just stating what wyndham included as Value added in the developer sales bonuses. Now argue all you want you are right about one thing - it doesn't matter what you and I think its moving forward but no one can whitewash history and deem something as breaking the rules or manipulation of something for which no rules against were adopted and for which the owners of the system allowed, promoted and performed for members. That is just plain stupid to suggest otherwise, but please try again.




I think we are coming to an understanding. Ill agree VIP points are worth more than non VIP points, and Ill agree that Wyndham sales promoted the cancel rebook trick to make sales. and Ill agree that the cancel/rebook trick does no real harm to any other owner, or Wyndham. (also happen to understand co-skiers argument that the competition dynamic is changed with all the cancelled points thrown back into the mix)

and we agree on the most important point. Wyndham isnt going to allow us to cancel and rebook any longer. If the auto upgrade thing dosent work, then they will probably do something else.

Where I think we disagree is that I would say; the discount program was never intended by Wyndham to give VIP's discounts on every reservation.  

So what to do now....  Ive stopped looking back to the good old days (for me thats pre August 2016)and Im planning for a future without discounted vacations.


----------



## ronparise

happyhopian said:


> We have a genius among us and I can't remember who it was. About a year ago someone used the word 'silos' to describe how Wyndham was operating. It dawned on me today - this is exactly why they are having the problems they are having. The depth of CR, the depth of forward credit pooling, the lack of knowledge on how the reservation system is used and what search functions are necessary...just think these folks don't know and don't care what the other compartments are doing/thinking/needing. Legal might not have liked certain 'fairness' principles but sales was pushing the dog out of it.
> 
> Who ever that was NAILED it. SILOS = Wyndham management philosophy.




I think I was the first to say the problem at Wyndham is (was) that the right hand doesnt know what the left hand is doing.  I know thats what was behind my suspension.  One group at wyndham allowed me even encouraged me to do what I was doing, and another group suspended my account for doing it

Someone else, here, told me that in business terminology that's whats called silos


Heres what I said Sept 2 2016
" in large organizations the left hand doesmt always know what the right hand is doing (or why) or how everything fits together in the organization"


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> I think we are coming to an understanding. Ill agree VIP points are worth more than non VIP points, and Ill agree that Wyndham sales promoted the cancel rebook trick to make sales. and Ill agree that the cancel/rebook trick does no real harm to any other owner, or Wyndham. (also happen to understand co-skiers argument that the competition dynamic is changed with all the cancelled points thrown back into the mix)
> 
> and we agree on the most important point. Wyndham isnt going to allow us to cancel and rebook any longer. If the auto upgrade thing dosent work, then they will probably do something else.
> 
> Where I think we disagree is that I would say; the discount program was never intended by Wyndham to give VIP's discounts on every reservation.
> 
> So what to do now....  Ive stopped looking back to the good old days (for me thats pre August 2016)and Im planning for a future without discounted vacations.


My only point ever has been that while some didn't like it, it was created and promoted for exactly what was being done. It was not, is not and has not been a rule violation under ANY interpretation of the rules. For MANY reasons Wyndham has implemented changes. In some cases to lessen c/r in some cases to make booking more difficult, in some cases to limit credit pooling - in all cases to devalue ownership added value. There is no one reason and in fact if they wanted to stop c/r all they ever had to do was randomize inventory return from 10 minutes to 10 hours and boom - it was over.

I don't get on a soap box often but anytime someone wants to call C/R a rule violation or manipulation I'm going to get my box back out because that is calling people who utilized it unethical and fraudulent when in fact all we did was exactly what Wyndham told us, sold us, promoted to us and helped us do.

As to looking back and going forward. Again - I am having great success. The only exception is bonnet creek but I've talked with several folks that are having worse issues. I still think that platinum status owners are going to have a HUGE advantage on the upgrades. In fact I learned that I can book inside 60-45 days and select automatic upgrade and if an upgrade comes on day 47 - platinum gets it over the gold who booked six months earlier where as before everyone had the same opportunity the disparity between status levels is HUGE even if only for a 15 day window - but that 15 days will be massive transaction periods.

Lots to learn and I enjoy the challenge. Have a good nite.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> Folks who bought VIP platinum paid $100k plus PER 1 million points. They are entitled to the discounts, book, hold cancel anyway they see fit. It is ridiculous for ANYONE to suggest that the ownership purchased for $12,000 should have the same benefits as the one purchased for $120,000. That is just silly communism thinking.


For you to say VIPs are entitled  to discounts,book,hold cancel anyway they see fit. 
Wyndham says that is a false statement loud and clear.
Why else do you think Wyndham introduced the auto upgrade ?
If your statement was true Wyndham would just give you the discount and upgrade on all reservations at the time of booking.


----------



## Braindead

happyhopian said:


> I don't get on a soap box often but anytime someone wants to call C/R a rule violation or manipulation I'm going to get my box back out because that is calling people who utilized it unethical and fraudulent when in fact all we did was exactly what Wyndham told us, sold us, promoted to us and helped us do..


For all of us that think cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade was an unfair advantage and a manipulation of the system.
You just called it fraud again. NOT ME
I would say Wyndham also thinks it was an unfair advantage and manipulation of the system.
Result of Wyndham saying it was is the new auto upgrade benefit.


----------



## 55plus

Braindead said:


> For you to say VIPs are entitled  to discounts,book,hold cancel anyway they see fit.Wyndham says that is a false statement loud and clear. Why else do you think Wyndham introduced the auto upgrade ? If your statement was true Wyndham would just give you the discount and upgrade on all reservations at the time of booking.


With the new website are auto upgrades available to all owners or just VIP owners like before?


----------



## Braindead

55plus said:


> With the new website are auto upgrades available to all owners or just VIP owners like before?


There was no auto upgrades before.


----------



## Sandy VDH

55plus said:


> With the new website are auto upgrades available to all owners or just VIP owners like before?



I think they were asking about the VIP part.  So yes upgrades are only a VIP perk.


----------



## breezez

I stopped reading this thread on page 45.  Tonight I caught back up.   Now I have a headache and need a beer....


----------



## WalnutBaron

breezez said:


> I stopped reading this thread on page 45.  Tonight I caught back up.   Now I have a headache and need a beer....


If it's only a beer you need, I admire your fortitude!


----------



## Bigrob

Braindead said:


> If your statement was true Wyndham would just give you the discount and upgrade on all reservations at the time of booking.



This actually is a good point. There were a couple of issues; one of the issues was the number of reservations tied up to enable the cancel/rebook/upgrade trick. The other was the large discrepancy between the rack rate and actual rate paid by platinum VIP owners for certain reservations. The oft-used example is a 3BR for half the 1BR price, but there were scenarios enabling even greater spreads with net point costs of less than 1/8th the rack rate.

If Wyndham wanted to eliminate a lot of the "noise" in the system (i.e, reservations that were "placeholders" that would be canceled and then rebooked) they could easily have implemented an immediate discount option. The fact they didn't shows that was never the true intent. Yes, it was a loophole; that it was known and commonly used as a sales tool doesn't mean that getting every reservation at discount and upgrade was the intent.


----------



## Jan M.

Braindead said:


> For all of us that think cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade was an unfair advantage and a manipulation of the system.
> I would say Wyndham also thinks it was an unfair advantage and manipulation of the system.
> Result of Wyndham saying it was is the new auto upgrade benefit.



Since none of us were actually in those meetings with the Wyndham executives to hear the information presented and the ensuing discussions when all of this was being decided, everything we come up with is speculation, conjecture, observations or our own personal bias talking. I think that we can agree that Wyndham's intent is to hamstring/eliminate the mega renters and point managers who made a profitable business out of taking every opportunity to make the most out of the ARP and book/cancel/rebook/upgrade. Do I wish that Wyndham had found other ways to do this that didn't hurt the vast majority of the other VIP owners? Absolutely! Was that even possible? From some of the things OP have suggested they could have done I have to say that it is probably very likely. But some of those suggestions would have made many VIP owners equally unhappy too.

As I've said in previous posts the few reservations made with our ARP never seemed to work out for us so I've only used it a couple of times in all the years we've owned. I've also said that we rarely plan anything very far out so book/cancel/rebook/upgrade wasn't something we needed or relied on. But I was told over and over how to do all those things by both sales and the VC's. Plus the website made it so easy to do those things even if I didn't need or use them. 

How did all of you learn to use your Wyndham ownership? We've owned since before the website was even available and I only discovered TUG a few years ago. Those of you who can read the directory and are good to go are the envy of the rest of us! All I got out of the directory was information about the resorts and units and the point charts. Most of what I learned was from the sales people and VC's. I've said that we used to go to the sales presentations and owner updates because I usually learned something. And I will always be grateful for the VC's who were absolutely wonderful about teaching me. The owner website was available for awhile before one of the VC's convinced me that I was missing out by not learning to use it. I quickly mastered the website because it was easy to use and so much of what I had learned finally clicked. I could understand what I was seeing because it was all on one page and finding what was available was very easy. The new website is hard for all of us but I pity new owners tying to learn how to use their ownership with this new website, the wait times to call in and the VC's unable to be much help with anything. Maybe they are better off because they never knew the old website. I'm clinging to the hope that when Wyndham has accomplished their goals with this new website that they will find ways to make it more user friendly. That may be totally unrealistic but hope springs eternal!

We all know that changes to the VIP benefits was and still is always a possibility. How many sales would Fairfield then Wyndham have made without those VIP benefits? All of us who continued to buy developer points to reach the different VIP levels did so to get those VIP benefits. So yes right now many of us are feeling like we purchased a loaded BMW I8 and now Wyndham has shown up on our doorstep to take back that lovely machine and expects us to be happy with the bottom of the line BMW 2 Series that they are giving us in place of it because look it is still a BMW. And doesn't having a BMW at all make us feel so much more special than our neighbors with the used recent model Toyota Camry or the new Kia Rio.


----------



## paxsarah

happyhopian said:


> We have a genius among us and I can't remember who it was. About a year ago someone used the word 'silos' to describe how Wyndham was operating. It dawned on me today - this is exactly why they are having the problems they are having. The depth of CR, the depth of forward credit pooling, the lack of knowledge on how the reservation system is used and what search functions are necessary...just think these folks don't know and don't care what the other compartments are doing/thinking/needing. Legal might not have liked certain 'fairness' principles but sales was pushing the dog out of it.
> 
> Who ever that was NAILED it. SILOS = Wyndham management philosophy.



It looks like the winner was T-Dot in a post from last September:


T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Your post describes a corporation that is comprised of business silos that are
> not working in unison .


----------



## happyhopian

Braindead said:


> For all of us that think cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade was an unfair advantage and a manipulation of the system.
> You just called it fraud again. NOT ME
> I would say Wyndham also thinks it was an unfair advantage and manipulation of the system.
> Result of Wyndham saying it was is the new auto upgrade benefit.


you are entitled to your opinion - as unsupportable as it is, you are still entitled to it. I don't think they do and in fact THEY have promoted it, supported it and never prohibited it - even in today's system (I just did a c/r/u at BC for August 1st -4th into a 3 bedroom)


----------



## happyhopian

Jan M. said:


> Since none of us were actually in those meetings with the Wyndham executives to hear the information presented and the ensuing discussions when all of this was being decided, everything we come up with is speculation, conjecture, observations or our own personal bias talking. I think that we can agree that Wyndham's intent is to hamstring/eliminate the mega renters and point managers who made a profitable business out of taking every opportunity to make the most out of the ARP and book/cancel/rebook/upgrade. Do I wish that Wyndham had found other ways to do this that didn't hurt the vast majority of the other VIP owners? Absolutely! Was that even possible? From some of the things OP have suggested they could have done I have to say that it is probably very likely. But some of those suggestions would have made many VIP owners equally unhappy too.
> 
> As I've said in previous posts the few reservations made with our ARP never seemed to work out for us so I've only used it a couple of times in all the years we've owned. I've also said that we rarely plan anything very far out so book/cancel/rebook/upgrade wasn't something we needed or relied on. But I was told over and over how to do all those things by both sales and the VC's. Plus the website made it so easy to do those things even if I didn't need or use them.
> 
> How did all of you learn to use your Wyndham ownership? We've owned since before the website was even available and I only discovered TUG a few years ago. Those of you who can read the directory and are good to go are the envy of the rest of us! All I got out of the directory was information about the resorts and units and the point charts. Most of what I learned was from the sales people and VC's. I've said that we used to go to the sales presentations and owner updates because I usually learned something. And I will always be grateful for the VC's who were absolutely wonderful about teaching me. The owner website was available for awhile before one of the VC's convinced me that I was missing out by not learning to use it. I quickly mastered the website because it was easy to use and so much of what I had learned finally clicked. I could understand what I was seeing because it was all on one page and finding what was available was very easy. The new website is hard for all of us but I pity new owners tying to learn how to use their ownership with this new website, the wait times to call in and the VC's unable to be much help with anything. Maybe they are better off because they never knew the old website. I'm clinging to the hope that when Wyndham has accomplished their goals with this new website that they will find ways to make it more user friendly. That may be totally unrealistic but hope springs eternal!
> 
> We all know that changes to the VIP benefits was and still is always a possibility. How many sales would Fairfield then Wyndham have made without those VIP benefits? All of us who continued to buy developer points to reach the different VIP levels did so to get those VIP benefits. So yes right now many of us are feeling like we purchased a loaded BMW I8 and now Wyndham has shown up on our doorstep to take back that lovely machine and expects us to be happy with the bottom of the line BMW 2 Series that they are giving us in place of it because look it is still a BMW. And doesn't having a BMW at all make us feel so much more special than our neighbors with the used recent model Toyota Camry or the new Kia Rio.


Jan - stop whining. You should feel special, grateful and above all honored that they still let you play in their sandbox


----------



## happyhopian

Bigrob said:


> If Wyndham wanted to eliminate a lot of the "noise" in the system (i.e, reservations that were "placeholders" that would be canceled and then rebooked) they could easily have implemented an immediate discount option. The fact they didn't shows that was never the true intent. Yes, it was a loophole; that it was known and commonly used as a sales tool doesn't mean that getting every reservation at discount and upgrade was the intent.



I can agree with this, but there is a point, remember that c/r held an inherent risk - losing the reservation, which happened to all of us. There were MANY things Wyndham could have done to stop this and much much simpler than what they did (randomizing the return to inventory has been the most obvious). Ultimately they haven't changed much. For so long as they allow upgrades. I can still reserve two units at the time of checkin at ARP and then cancel the top on 60 days or 55 days or 46 days and roll it back to me - IF we trusted the system to work correctly. That's really more of the issue. As I keep saying CRU isn't gone. Certainly it is much more limited as is everything else with the website but it is still there and will still be made use of. 

As to the why did they implement auto-upgrade that is simple in my opinion. The same reason they now require a guest cert on 48 hours. They wanted to stop the hoarding of inventory which was hurting their ability to populate extra holidays. Sure they want the members to have more accessibility but the swapping of inventory inside 60 days was taking place as they were also sucking back inventory for extra holidays - remember the old trick where inventory never came back into the system.

Look I don't dispute that Wyndham has changed the ability of CRU but to say that was their intention in these changes is like bringing the election of Donald Trump to one reason. There are MANY reasons and many side effects. I don't think any of us can or will know which was intended or a side effect for years.


----------



## johnstonga

*Auto Upgrades still not working  .... an example.

I have an existing 1BR reservations for Four nites in late August for which I requested an Auto Upgrade if it becomes available.

Two days ago I noticed that a Three BR had come back into inventory for the same four nites* (maybe more) *..... but my 1BR had not been upgraded.

So I decided to 'gamble' and see how long it would take to upgrade.

Well, it's been 48 hours.  
No Upgrade for me ... and the Three BR is still available to be booked at full or discounted VIP rates.

I don't like the latest "improvement" in Wyndham rules ... but I can live with "half a loaf" compared to old rules/system.

What's really galling is that Wyndham can't implement it's own rules.... so we don't even get the promised "half a loaf"

.... and to add insult to injury, they still don't seem to be able to keep track of how many Wyn Points,* ie money*, owners have in their accounts.

We've been living with a year of Chaos .... and there's no sign when it will end.

I miss Fairfield......*
yep, I am an old timer who remembers when owners were King and when existing owners constituted more than half of Fairfields new sales.
*
*


----------



## cayman01

I don't think Wyndham did any of this to screw the VIP's. They had a serious problem and they had to fix it. The problem with C/R was not the rebooking at lower costs but all the extra points that the process was returning to accounts when a cancellation was done. Combine that with all the credit pooling and the trust was in danger of collapsing because there had to have been more points in the system for this year than available reservations. Thus all the Megarenters got suspended ,along with plenty of collateral damage, to keep them from using their points and collapsing the system. I believe that if you got ANY extra points you shouldn't have had you got suspended. And you stayed suspended until the dust settled.

 Wyndham thought they could fix it all with Voyager. For some reason they could not fix the old system because they could not figure out how the extra points were being credited. Somebody with an IT background can speak to that. So it went something like this....

Management: We need Voyager online now

IT: It's not ready

Management: get it ready now

IT: We are still at least a year away, it needs testing

Management: Test it on the owners cause we won't have a company in a year otherwise.

IT: oh, okay.....

Let's move on and look at it from Wyndham's perspective. With the suspensions they avoid total disaster. Now they look at the business end. Remember how we talk about giving reservations to Extra Holidays and only getting one or two nights rented and losing the rest of the points? I am pretty sure that was happening a lot to Wyndham to, and who did they point the finger at? EBay. Wyndham doesn't care about the occasional renter offsetting his MF's. But the guys who were renting Bonnet Creek 4 BR PR for way under point costs pissed them off. Wyndham wants to rent those for $400-500 a night . Time to put an end to that, and they did. I don't think Wyndham is grabbing anything more than they ever did, but they are renting more of the ones they have.

 But they still have one major problem to deal with and that is the Website. That was a complete disaster. They had no idea it was going to go so miserably. This is going to cost them way more than anything EH brings in. Any owners out there going to buy any more points right now? Can any of us on TUG say they would entertain that idea? My question to you IT people, what is the best course of action with data that is so corrupted? Can tHis be fixed? Do you start over again with another system? Do you save the old system databases, plug them into a new working version of Voyager and roll everybody's account status back to May 21? That might be the best option IMO. What with cancellations of vacations and upgrades happening left and right what else can you do? The problems here are way bigger than the horrendous search feature we are dealing with.

C/R....... It will still be a part of the VIP ownership. It will be harder to do. But it is here to stay.


----------



## Braindead

55plus said:


> Nothing will change - sales weasels will continue to lie, twist the facts and tell half truths. That's their job: lie and say anything to make a sale. They are free to say whatever they have to to make a sale because buried in the contract the new owner (the mark) signs releases the sales weasels and Wyndham from the lies told upon the purchase, in so many words. If statements made during the sale process were to be held as fact timeshare sales would drop off considerably.


I have heard this ever since I found TUG
But now all of you are saying how valuable and honest all those sales weasels were.
In promoting and teaching you the cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade.


----------



## raygo123

Braindead said:


> I have heard this ever since I found TUG
> But now all of you are saying how valuable and honest all those sales weasels were.
> In promoting and teaching you the cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade.


Really?  Do u really believe that? Did sales teach us or did we teach them?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## Braindead

raygo123 said:


> Really?  Do u really believe that? Did sales teach us or did we teach them?
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


I'm so indebted to all of you!!
Everything I have learned. I learned it here.
Others gave credit to sales for promoting and teaching cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade in order to justify doing it and claiming Wyndham encouraged it.

About 3 weeks ago Ron posted something that saved my ---. And the best part Ron didn't even know his post could have such an impact on anyone.
I thanked Ron profusely in PMs. And will do so again here
Huge Thank You Ron !! 

Thanks to all of you !! But that doesn't mean I have to turn my opinions off.
I love good conversation!!! I won't take it personally 
Jan M. Is always so elegant in her post. I find it very hard to disagree with you Jan M.


----------



## ronparise

paxsarah said:


> It looks like the winner was T-Dot in a post from last September:


and the post T-Dot was referring to when she/he said "your post"  was mine from Sept 2.. I had the concept, not the name


----------



## paxsarah

ronparise said:


> and the post T-Dot was referring to when she/he said "your post"  was mine from Sept 2.. I had the concept, not the name



And actually, in my search for the earliest mention of silos I also came across a thread you started several years ago with the topic "Right hand, left hand" (though in that case I think you were talking mostly about sales) - so you have definitely been talking about the lack of communication between different areas of Wyndham for a long time!


----------



## ronparise

Jan M. said:


> Since none of us were actually in those meetings with the Wyndham executives to hear the information presented and the ensuing discussions when all of this was being decided, everything we come up with is speculation, conjecture, observations or our own personal bias talking. I think that we can agree that Wyndham's intent is to hamstring/eliminate the mega renters and point managers who made a profitable business out of taking every opportunity to make the most out of the ARP and book/cancel/rebook/upgrade. Do I wish that Wyndham had found other ways to do this that didn't hurt the vast majority of the other VIP owners? Absolutely! Was that even possible? From some of the things OP have suggested they could have done I have to say that it is probably very likely. But some of those suggestions would have made many VIP owners equally unhappy too.
> 
> As I've said in previous posts the few reservations made with our ARP never seemed to work out for us so I've only used it a couple of times in all the years we've owned. I've also said that we rarely plan anything very far out so book/cancel/rebook/upgrade wasn't something we needed or relied on. But I was told over and over how to do all those things by both sales and the VC's. Plus the website made it so easy to do those things even if I didn't need or use them.
> 
> How did all of you learn to use your Wyndham ownership? We've owned since before the website was even available and I only discovered TUG a few years ago. Those of you who can read the directory and are good to go are the envy of the rest of us! All I got out of the directory was information about the resorts and units and the point charts. Most of what I learned was from the sales people and VC's. I've said that we used to go to the sales presentations and owner updates because I usually learned something. And I will always be grateful for the VC's who were absolutely wonderful about teaching me. The owner website was available for awhile before one of the VC's convinced me that I was missing out by not learning to use it. I quickly mastered the website because it was easy to use and so much of what I had learned finally clicked. I could understand what I was seeing because it was all on one page and finding what was available was very easy. The new website is hard for all of us but I pity new owners tying to learn how to use their ownership with this new website, the wait times to call in and the VC's unable to be much help with anything. Maybe they are better off because they never knew the old website. I'm clinging to the hope that when Wyndham has accomplished their goals with this new website that they will find ways to make it more user friendly. That may be totally unrealistic but hope springs eternal!
> 
> We all know that changes to the VIP benefits was and still is always a possibility. How many sales would Fairfield then Wyndham have made without those VIP benefits? All of us who continued to buy developer points to reach the different VIP levels did so to get those VIP benefits. So yes right now many of us are feeling like we purchased a loaded BMW I8 and now Wyndham has shown up on our doorstep to take back that lovely machine and expects us to be happy with the bottom of the line BMW 2 Series that they are giving us in place of it because look it is still a BMW. And doesn't having a BMW at all make us feel so much more special than our neighbors with the used recent model Toyota Camry or the new Kia Rio.




I havent been in the policy meeting when they discuss "intent" and formulate the plans to make that intent reality, but I have been in the meetings where they implement those plans.    You are probably right when you say Wyndhams intent with the new rules was to attack the mega renters. I think it was Chapjim that said it in one of his posts...Wyndham was really clever.  They are able to say this has nothing to do with renting. Renting is still allowed. They havent spoken to renting at all.  What they have done (they say) is to make the system fair. and they are doing it by introducing new benefits

In one meeting I was in, this comment was made...."You guys have a big commercial operation going, dont you."  and in another "This isnt about renting, it never was. Its all about fairness"  and in other meetings, they spent a great deal of time having me explain how I used the credit pool, cancel and rebook and the timeshare relief companies to do what I do. At one point, one of the executives said, regarding cancel and rebook..."you have to know, that isnt the way that VIP discount benefit was meant  to work"  

And there are others here that had similar meetings and could tell you the same thing

So i would take issue with your statement that our posts here are nothing but  "speculation, conjecture, observations or our own personal bias talking." Some of us really do know what we are talking about

It isnt that we knew VIP benefits could change. Even if we dont want to admit it. We all knew cancel and rebook wasnt a benefit at all. It was a loophole that we were exploiting. and we all knew it was going to end one day. Those of us that depended on it to make a buck, knew it and those that used it do get double vacations for themselves , knew it too. Or at least we all should have known it.. It was always just a matter of time.


----------



## ronparise

raygo123 said:


> Really?  Do u really believe that? Did sales teach us or did we teach them?
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk




Theres a lot of truth to what you say here.  I know I taught some salesmen  a thing or two about how to become VIP with very little money. and how the credit pool worked.


----------



## Baby Jane

Braindead said:


> I'm not mad at all.
> VIPs are supposed to get more out of their points. I sure hope so I'm Platinum with you.
> I've used cancel rebook
> I responded to happyhopian using those terms. And wow did that blow up!
> 
> Did Wyndham tolerate cancel- rebook-cancel-upgrade ? Absolutely
> Did Wyndham employees assist in the process? Absolutely
> Was it illegal or against the rules at the highest demand times ? Depends on how you define unfair advantage and manipulating the system to ones advantage. Remember there were other VIPs wanting those reservations also.
> 
> I will use happyhopian Walmart xbox example to try and open some eyes-
> Walmart puts out an ad Xbox on sale 12:00 AM
> Some show up some don't to the sale. The key is everyone had that chance.
> 
> The problem with cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade you were trying to create your own sale at your own time. Sale was intended for one yourself.
> If Wyndham would post all cancellations from the prior day at 9:am and open those reservations to all owners 12:00 PM. That's fair to all owners.
> Everybody has their chance to show up at 12:00 PM
> 
> Back to Xbox what would happen if you show up 6 hours early when you want and they only have one Xbox and you put a price tag at the sale price ? Trying to create a sale for yourself
> What if an employee helps you find the Xbox helps you put the sale price tag on and checks you out. Does that make it OK
> Did everyone have a fair chance ?
> Or did you gain an unfair advantage?
> 
> 
> When Ron stated that until the audits and suspensions the upper management had no idea how much cancel-rebook-cancel-upgrade was taking place. I believe Ron
> 
> When newbies come here and everybody is saying rescind-rescind.
> Points are points at 10 months
> Are you being honest ? Because now you are saying I paid more for my points. Get in line be hind me. I can manipulate and gain an unfair advantage for myself because I paid for it.
> 
> If you don't see it that way you really have the blinders on.


 
So are cancelled points getting dumped in at a certain time now??? I am totally confused about how it all works. I did cancel rebook but I never booked 3 rooms same resort same time in order to do it. Sometime during 60 day window when I had time I would cancel and rebook whether it was for me or a guest. I did sometimes have 3 resorts booked same week as all my friends have kids and seem to enjoy spring and fall break. We never made money on the deal. We rented to offset maintenance on unused points. It did benefit us in that regard and friends and family got cheap nice vacations. None of whom are willing to pay full cost so it is a loss for us and them  Platinum was sold to us as buy more get more and rent what you don't need. They told us to book the smallest unit and whatever size we really wanted but I never did that. I do not feel I abused the system but obviously a lot of people did.


----------



## jayejayeg

Been on hold numerous times trying to inquire, sometimes longer than 30 minutes, sometimes longer than an hour... getting no where.  So on 6/11 I decide to provide comments/feedback regarding our account which appears to show new points we are waiting on in the 2018 use year as part of our total - but not available - and also doesn't list the contract under ownership yet.  I was wondering if I was ever going to get a response to that message that I sent... and I finally did.  A completely useless reply from a specialist in Owner Care. 

"Thank you for coming to CLUB WYNDHAM in regards to your comments. We are very glad to have this opportunity to be of service to you. 

I apologize for the delayed response to your inquiry. It appears as though your points have been corrected, I apologize for any technical glitches you experienced and we thank you for your patience during this time.


For additional assistance, please do not hesitate to reach out to CLUB WYNDHAM at 1-800-251-8736, Monday-Friday 8:00am-8:00pm EST as well as Saturday and Sunday 9:00am-6:00pm EST."

So I go log in, excited to see if the new contract is showing up and if we now have those points available in 2018.  NOPE.  Nothing has changed with our account at all.  Same point total for 2018, no points available in 2018 (yet) and no new contract listed under ownership. <sigh>

We started this process in January and got a copy of the deed on May 3... so I will just keep waiting and waiting I guess.


----------



## bnoble

breezez said:


> I stopped reading this thread on page 45.  Tonight I caught back up.   Now I have a headache and need a beer....


My ignore list has gotten a LOT longer. It sometimes makes the thread confusing, but at least I have some small chance of actually seeing posts that have information about how to use the site.


----------



## Baby Jane

Bigrob said:


> This actually is a good point. There were a couple of issues; one of the issues was the number of reservations tied up to enable the cancel/rebook/upgrade trick. The other was the large discrepancy between the rack rate and actual rate paid by platinum VIP owners for certain reservations. The oft-used example is a 3BR for half the 1BR price, but there were scenarios enabling even greater spreads with net point costs of less than 1/8th the rack rate.
> 
> If Wyndham wanted to eliminate a lot of the "noise" in the system (i.e, reservations that were "placeholders" that would be canceled and then rebooked) they could easily have implemented an immediate discount option. The fact they didn't shows that was never the true intent. Yes, it was a loophole; that it was known and commonly used as a sales tool doesn't mean that getting every reservation at discount and upgrade was the intent.



They usually said your million should be worth 1.5x that you should get discounts and upgrades on at least half your reservations. I do not believe for 1 minute Wyndham did not sanction this to make the sale.


----------



## happyhopian

Baby Jane said:


> They usually said your million should be worth 1.5x that you should get discounts and upgrades on at least half your reservations. I do not believe for 1 minute Wyndham did not sanction this to make the sale.


Of course they did, until they couldn't rent extra holidays @ $325 a night in a 3br while ebay was renting 3brs at $200 a night. Ron's right Wyndham WAS talking about fairness the subject of their statement wasn't clear


----------



## cyseitz

What is going to be there selling point for VIP if they take away all of the upgrades?


----------



## Braindead

cyseitz said:


> What is going to be there selling point for VIP if they take away all of the upgrades?


That is their selling point.
Sales weasel spin is the average Platinum owner will get more upgrades with the auto upgrade.
I'm not saying that is going to happen.
Just the sales weasels theory earlier this week


----------



## Sandy VDH

Yet again more non-functioning/odd/unexplained website stuff.

I am unlimited housekeeping so I guess I don't care, but what the heck is this....

*Award Expiration Points Deduction.*  No Idea, any guesses??


----------



## raygo123

Sandy VDH said:


> Yet again more non-functioning/odd/unexplained website stuff.
> 
> I am unlimited housekeeping so I guess I don't care, but what the heck is this....
> 
> *Award Expiration Points Deduction.*  No Idea, any guesses??
> 
> View attachment 4212


On the old site it showed up on the point status report as the total remaining in the end column. It was a running total.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## 55plus

cyseitz said:


> What is going to be there selling point for VIP if they take away all of the upgrades?


The sales weasels will continue to lie, tell half truths, spin the facts and say anything to make a sale. They will continue talk about cancel and rebook, etc., and play everything up as being great, including the piece of crap website.


----------



## Sandy VDH

raygo123 said:


> On the old site it showed up on the point status report as the total remaining in the end column. It was a running total.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



Two things: 
This is NOT on my point status report, this is a transaction item in my listing.  That is why I don't get it,  This is just a transaction line item NOT a total on a report.
I am unlimited so why bother?  It doesn't matter


----------



## raygo123

Sandy VDH said:


> Two things:
> This is NOT on my point status report, this is a transaction item in my listing.  That is why I don't get it,  This is just a transaction line item NOT a total on a report.
> I am unlimited so why bother?  It doesn't matter


Yes I know, I was telling what was done on the old site as compared to the new site showing it as a line item, rather than just a running total.  I agree it is useless to VIP gold and platinum.  The same with transaction fees.  To the owner with say 200,000 points, it may.  Its probably easier to show all owners rather than trying to limit it to non VIP owners.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## 55plus

raygo123 said:


> Yes I know, I was telling what was done on the old site as compared to the new site showing it as a line item, rather than just a running total.  I agree it is useless to VIP gold and platinum.  The same with transaction fees.  To the owner with say 200,000 points, it may.  Its probably easier to show all owners rather than trying to limit it to non VIP owners. Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


It may be an indicator of a future policy change. Limiting free transaction fees and house keeping credits for VIP Gold and Platinum. Wyndham likes to change the rules after the game begins.


----------



## bogey21

55plus said:


> Wyndham likes to change the rules after the game begins.



This kind of treatment is not unique to Wyndham.  All the "Big Boys" do it.  It is the reason I bailed from Marriott many years ago.

George


----------



## raygo123

55plus said:


> It may be an indicator of a future policy change. Limiting free transaction fees and house keeping credits for VIP Gold and Platinum. Wyndham likes to change the rules after the game begins.


Not really, it was quite visible, and worked like a countdown. 0 left means you have to buy some. It's just a different format.  

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## Baby Jane

raygo123 said:


> Not really, it was quite visible, and worked like a countdown. 0 left means you have to buy some. It's just a different format.
> 
> Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk



I think its just the website and the way it is set up. While I know Wyndham is all about money and profit they have to leave a few perks for VIP or it will be a tough sell especially when resale can be bought so much cheaper.


----------



## buckor

Okay, so I spoke with an OC rep again today about the negative points showing on my account and keeping me from being able to make reservations for this year.

Evidently the system has a problem with how it is accounting for cancellations. I made a reservation and then cancelled it the same day, testing out the new website and its features. The next day, evidently, the system took the points from a whole contract and put them in as negative points.

The OC rep said this has happened to MANY people and that IT was working on a system fix. However, they did not know when it would be fixed and then a points audit would have to take place.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## WalnutBaron

jayejayeg said:


> We started this process in January and got a copy of the deed on May 3... so I will just keep waiting and waiting I guess.


That is unconscionable. By comparison, I purchased a Hyatt week in Sedona earlier this year. The deed was conveyed after passing ROFR on May 3. The points and property were in my online Hyatt Residence Club account on June 11. It's just amazing how badly Wyndham owners are being treated by the company.


----------



## cyseitz

So. the website looks different for me right now.....I GUESS they THINK they made it better!


----------



## tnort5

I've got a bit of a specific question regarding the new site.  If you have selected the automatic upgrade, and so has another owner, when one upgrade becomes available, which owner gets the upgrade?  Can you over ride the auto procedure and manually try to snag an upgrade?  If you cancelled a 3 bedroom reservation and tried to upgrade a 2 bedroom, how would you be able to get it?

Thanks


----------



## IT Guy

tnort5 said:


> I've got a bit of a specific question regarding the new site.  If you have selected the automatic upgrade, and so has another owner, when one upgrade becomes available, which owner gets the upgrade?  Can you over ride the auto procedure and manually try to snag an upgrade?  If you cancelled a 3 bedroom reservation and tried to upgrade a 2 bedroom, how would you be able to get it?
> 
> Thanks



Sorry to say but that old process of cancel/rebook/upgrade does not work anymore.  No one knows when cancelled units come back.  Those who have been lucky enough to see one of their cancelled units return tell us it is not consistent.  They also did away with the ability to manually upgrade an existing reservation even if you see a larger unit available.  The best bet to get an upgrade now is to make a new booking when you happen to see two different size units available.  There is another thread dedicated to the cancel and rebook topic. 

Best regards to all.


----------



## foundyoubyaccident

Well Folks, I know I have said it before on this thread, but I have to say it again... I am locked out.  I can't count, it is either the 4th or 5th time.   It could be conceivable that maybe I keep forgetting my user name and password.. but I don't have to enter it in, it is automatically saved!  I am going to presume like I have all the other times, that a contract has dropped.  Since every time a new one has come, I have been kicked out of the system.. It is a pattern.  For any of those resale-ers like myself, has this been happening to you?


----------



## wjappraise

Arghhh!!!!  What a piece of crap this new website is.  But Owner Care is firmly convinced they can make it look good, by failing even more miserably in their attempts to "help" their owners (suckers!).  What a horrible chain of events this has rolled into our lives.  

When the new website rolled out, I had the same issues as most here, but I also had a current point balance of NEGATIVE 6 million points.  I tried calling and waiting and waiting and waiting to get help.  No one could or would help, even they opened up "tickets" and "cases" on my behalf.  I read here that I could get a response on the website by clicking the "contact us" tab.  So I did this on May 30, 2017 after getting no fixes for a week from the rollout.  I was blunt and to the point.  Here is exactly what I stated: "This website debacle has to stop!!! What is going to take for your to fix it? Right now I am showing as having NEGATIVE 6,000,000 points!!!!! This is an outrage how inept you have become!!!! This must be resolved or go back to the old website!"

Some 13 days later, on June 12, 2017 I was given this response: "Thank you for your feedback regarding your new owner website. I apologize for the delayed response to your query. We value your feedback and consistently share comments, suggestions and concerns with our leadership team to assist in making future enhancements based upon your comments. Our Information and Technology team is being made aware of issues occurring on a small population of accounts and working towards a permanent resolve; should you require immediate assistance please contact us at 1-800-251-8736. Thank you for your patience while we work to improve your online experience."

I immediately responded to this on June 12, 2017 with this missive:  "This is an unacceptable and completely useless response. . . TWELVE DAYS after the initial plea was sent.  Why would you roll out an entirely new IT platform without proper beta testing?
You accept my monthly payments!!!  In fact you will suspend my account if I do not pay.  Where is the compensation due for not being able to correctly use my account?"

SIXTEEN days later, I get this response:  "Good afternoon Wes,   I apologize for the delay in replying to your email and appreciate your patience.
A history of transactions on your account has been requested.  This request can take up to 15 business days for you to receive.
Warm Regards,  CLUB WYNDHAM"

Warm Regards????  

Who, besides someone on Wyndham's payroll, could ever dare state that the new rules and website (combined) are an improvement?  Yes, I am looking at you, COSmoker.


----------



## Sandi Bo

wjappraise said:


> Arghhh!!!!  What a piece of crap this new website is.  But Owner Care is firmly convinced they can make it look good, by failing even more miserably in their attempts to "help" their owners (suckers!).  What a horrible chain of events this has rolled into our lives.
> 
> When the new website rolled out, I had the same issues as most here, but I also had a current point balance of NEGATIVE 6 million points.  I tried calling and waiting and waiting and waiting to get help.  No one could or would help, even they opened up "tickets" and "cases" on my behalf.  I read here that I could get a response on the website by clicking the "contact us" tab.  So I did this on May 30, 2017 after getting no fixes for a week from the rollout.  I was blunt and to the point.  Here is exactly what I stated: "This website debacle has to stop!!! What is going to take for your to fix it? Right now I am showing as having NEGATIVE 6,000,000 points!!!!! This is an outrage how inept you have become!!!! This must be resolved or go back to the old website!"
> 
> Some 13 days later, on June 12, 2017 I was given this response: "Thank you for your feedback regarding your new owner website. I apologize for the delayed response to your query. We value your feedback and consistently share comments, suggestions and concerns with our leadership team to assist in making future enhancements based upon your comments. Our Information and Technology team is being made aware of issues occurring on a small population of accounts and working towards a permanent resolve; should you require immediate assistance please contact us at 1-800-251-8736. Thank you for your patience while we work to improve your online experience."
> 
> I immediately responded to this on June 12, 2017 with this missive:  "This is an unacceptable and completely useless response. . . TWELVE DAYS after the initial plea was sent.  Why would you roll out an entirely new IT platform without proper beta testing?
> You accept my monthly payments!!!  In fact you will suspend my account if I do not pay.  Where is the compensation due for not being able to correctly use my account?"
> 
> SIXTEEN days later, I get this response:  "Good afternoon Wes,   I apologize for the delay in replying to your email and appreciate your patience.
> A history of transactions on your account has been requested.  This request can take up to 15 business days for you to receive.
> Warm Regards,  CLUB WYNDHAM"
> 
> Warm Regards????
> 
> Who, besides someone on payroll, could ever dare state that the new rules and website (combined) are an improvement?  Yes, I am looking at you, COSmoker.


Haha, oh my. 

I especially love the way WYN throws around their 1-800-251-8736 number (always has). How with a straight face can they suggest we call that (for ANYTHING including callbacks from Owner Care or problems with our accounts).  Call 1-800-251-8736, hold for an hour or two, and likely the person who answers will be clueless to what you are calling about and not be able to help you. Not when it's a specific issue (like yours for example).  

Ever get one of those phone calls (old system) that you have an overlapping reservation, and if you have questions call 1-800-251-8736.  The VC were NOT able to tell you why you were called.  Many, many examples along those lines.  

I have been playing tag with someone in Owner Care.  I call and hold for 1 or 2 hours, he's not available, they'll leave him a message I called. He calls me back, I miss him... leaves a message to call 1-800-251-8736.

I'd love to see how they notate our accounts, because they rarely seem able to pull up old notes. 

Shameful customer service (appearance of helpfulness - not reality).


----------



## cayman01

wjappraise said:


> Arghhh!!!!  What a piece of crap this new website is.  But Owner Care is firmly convinced they can make it look good, by failing even more miserably in their attempts to "help" their owners (suckers!).  What a horrible chain of events this has rolled into our lives.
> 
> When the new website rolled out, I had the same issues as most here, but I also had a current point balance of NEGATIVE 6 million points.  I tried calling and waiting and waiting and waiting to get help.  No one could or would help, even they opened up "tickets" and "cases" on my behalf.  I read here that I could get a response on the website by clicking the "contact us" tab.  So I did this on May 30, 2017 after getting no fixes for a week from the rollout.  I was blunt and to the point.  Here is exactly what I stated: "This website debacle has to stop!!! What is going to take for your to fix it? Right now I am showing as having NEGATIVE 6,000,000 points!!!!! This is an outrage how inept you have become!!!! This must be resolved or go back to the old website!"
> 
> Some 13 days later, on June 12, 2017 I was given this response: "Thank you for your feedback regarding your new owner website. I apologize for the delayed response to your query. We value your feedback and consistently share comments, suggestions and concerns with our leadership team to assist in making future enhancements based upon your comments. Our Information and Technology team is being made aware of issues occurring on a small population of accounts and working towards a permanent resolve; should you require immediate assistance please contact us at 1-800-251-8736. Thank you for your patience while we work to improve your online experience."
> 
> I immediately responded to this on June 12, 2017 with this missive:  "This is an unacceptable and completely useless response. . . TWELVE DAYS after the initial plea was sent.  Why would you roll out an entirely new IT platform without proper beta testing?
> You accept my monthly payments!!!  In fact you will suspend my account if I do not pay.  Where is the compensation due for not being able to correctly use my account?"
> 
> SIXTEEN days later, I get this response:  "Good afternoon Wes,   I apologize for the delay in replying to your email and appreciate your patience.
> A history of transactions on your account has been requested.  This request can take up to 15 business days for you to receive.
> Warm Regards,  CLUB WYNDHAM"
> 
> Warm Regards????
> 
> Who, besides someone on Wyndham's payroll, could ever dare state that the new rules and website (combined) are an improvement?  Yes, I am looking at you, COSmoker.



 I think this timeline gives us a great example of just how widespread the problems are with this new system. AND how ill equipped Wyndham is to handle it. They do not have enough people working on the problems with the software, nor do they have enough people to help with owner account problems.


----------



## bobbyoc23

Sandi Bo said:


> Call 1-800-251-8736, hold for an hour or two...



I keep reading about people being on hold for an hour or two. Do you have to wait that long just to speak to someone? Or does that include hold times while they try to resolve your issue?

I ask because I've had an ongoing issue with my account (they canceled my RCI account, yay!), and I've had to dial that number multiple times (options 3 then 2 afterwards, I believe). I've always been able to talk to someone within 5-10 minutes, and usually closer to 5. I am a small peanuts account compared to most here, and other than my RCI issue everything else is fine. I am beginning to wonder if calls from larger accounts with issues are somehow flagged or screened? Just trying to reconcile the different wait times.

I don't think I'd have as much patience as you guys, I'd start cussing and hang up after 30 minutes...


----------



## cayman01

bobbyoc23 said:


> I keep reading about people being on hold for an hour or two. Do you have to wait that long just to speak to someone? Or does that include hold times while they try to resolve your issue?
> 
> I ask because I've had an ongoing issue with my account (they canceled my RCI account, yay!), and I've had to dial that number multiple times (options 3 then 2 afterwards, I believe). I've always been able to talk to someone within 5-10 minutes, and usually closer to 5. I am a small peanuts account compared to most here, and other than my RCI issue everything else is fine. I am beginning to wonder if calls from larger accounts with issues are somehow flagged or screened? Just trying to reconcile the different wait times.
> 
> I don't think I'd have as much patience as you guys, I'd start cussing and hang up after 30 minutes...



Shhhhhhhhhhhh.............


----------



## Jan M.

foundyoubyaccident said:


> Well Folks, I know I have said it before on this thread, but I have to say it again... I am locked out.  I can't count, it is either the 4th or 5th time.   It could be conceivable that maybe I keep forgetting my user name and password.. but I don't have to enter it in, it is automatically saved!  I am going to presume like I have all the other times, that a contract has dropped.  Since every time a new one has come, I have been kicked out of the system.. It is a pattern.  For any of those resale-ers like myself, has this been happening to you?



The user names and passwords that I set up for my husband and son before the change over work just fine. I have had 3 different user names and passwords that work for a few days then quit working. The last time mine quit working I had to call about another issue and the VC took a look at it thinking I had to be doing something wrong. I told him this time the information they had showing just for me had reverted to our old address from when we lived up North and that every time I set up my user name the information they had for me was screwed up in one way or another. When he was done trying a few things he said as long as I could access our account under the under names and passwords for my husband and son just to leave mine alone until things got worked out with the new website so we didn't mess up our account any worse than it already is. He had previously worked in IT somewhere so that was an interesting conversation.

We had our use year readjusted before the changeover. After the "Great Debacle" of May 21 I wasn't able to access our account until the following Friday. Early in June I cancelled a reservation made months ago and it recreated our July 1 use year. I was able to use those points to reserve something else so there are no points in that old use year. But that old use year has locked me out of being able to do anything but rent points. I have been waiting for about 3 weeks to get this fixed.

I also have a reservation they have been working on since June 3rd to get it cancelled and my points back. The person handling that case number called on Wednesday to say they were putting the points back into my account and he did it manually. So now I have points in this use year again but it won't let me use them and because they are showing I couldn't even rent points! Yesterday I spent 3 hours on the phone for them to fix what they fixed the day before. The person in owner care tried everything and I finally asked him to see if it would let him move those points to my 2018 use year. I opened my account to see if it would let me make a reservation renting points and it would. We were both relieved that it worked and I told him that anything is better than nothing. He apologized several times that we have to pay to rent points because we can't use our points and thanked me repeatedly for being so patient and not getting mad at him. He wasn't the one who made the decision to implement the new website and only IT can fix our account so why take it out on him.

I would be much happier if they could give me any idea of a timeframe for when our account issues will be fixed. I don't think even IT has any idea. Anyone have a crystal ball?


----------



## vacationhopeful

Jan,
When people actually doing this 8+ hours a day ... see NO LIGHT *in* the TUNNEL, I don't think a crystal ball can do anything. Right about now, I am thinking of toothless old witch with a big black kettle of boiling ??? over into the open flame fire ... stirring and stirring to the END OF TIME ... esp at the speed of learning for the Wyndham IT group and the geniuses employed as Wyndham systems analysts who 'designed' this work product.

Wait ... I get it now. Those who can't sell, write code.


----------



## Lita

As soon as they announced these changes to destroy the benefits of being a Platinum owner with the new booking rules, I just started counting the days until I can use Pathways.  It's not until 2019, but it can't come quick enough.  Those who applauded the changes because they thought it would correct the problems of the mega renters should now understand the changes they desired were a big mistake.


----------



## 55plus

Lita said:


> As soon as they announced these changes to destroy the benefits of being a Platinum owner with the new booking rules, I just started counting the days until I can use Pathways.  It's not until 2019, but it can't come quick enough.  Those who applauded the changes because they thought it would correct the problems of the mega renters should now understand the changes they desired were a big mistake.


Are you sure you want to use Pathways? Why not convert your ownership into a LLC with you as a principal to maintain VIP benefits and sell the LCC for more than Pathways will give you. You have a lot invested so why not recoup as much money as possible. After it's sold add the LCC owners as members.


----------



## chapjim

55plus said:


> Wyndham likes to change the rules after the game begins.



Remember Calvinball?


----------



## scootr5

chapjim said:


> Remember Calvinball?



My favorite comic strip of all time!


----------



## ronparise

55plus said:


> Are you sure you want to use Pathways? Why not convert your ownership into a LLC with you as a principal to maintain VIP benefits and sell the LCC for more than Pathways will give you. You have a lot invested so why not recoup as much money as possible. After it's sold add the LCC owners as members.


One reason may be that VIP without cancel/rebook /upgrade may not be worth anything.  The website is bad, but the optimists among us believe that that mess is temporary, 
The loss of discounts on every reservation is forever.


----------



## chapjim

One feature of the new website is the "autofill" when typing the name of a resort.  However, it yields some bizarre results.

So, let's say you want Emerald Grande and type, "em"  Sure enough, you get *Em*erald Grande on top but also La Bell*e M*aison, Th*e M*ills House, Lak*e M*arion, Th*e M*eadows, Club GeoPr*em*iere, and West Yellowston*e, M*ontana.

C'mon, Wyndham!!  Is someone who wants Lake Marion really going to start a search with "em"?  Is there a term for this in the programming world other than just stupid?


----------



## Sandi Bo

chapjim said:


> One feature of the new website is the "autofill" when typing the name of a resort.  However, it yields some bizarre results.
> 
> So, let's say you want Emerald Grande and type, "em"  Sure enough, you get *Em*erald Grande on top but also La Bell*e M*aison, Th*e M*ills House, Lak*e M*arion, Th*e M*eadows, Club GeoPr*em*iere, and West Yellowston*e, M*ontana.
> 
> C'mon, Wyndham!!  Is someone who wants Lake Marion really going to start a search with "em"?  Is there a term for this in the programming world other than just stupid?


Well, should I be embarrassed to admit that I am learning when I search what consecutive letters I can type with my left hand, to bring up the filtered dropdown list of resorts?  

Since we have to re-enter the Location every time, I use my left hand to type and enter the location so I can keep my right hand free to use my mouse. 

"cree" is enough to get Bonnet Creek
"cea" and I can select Ocean Walk
etc.

And that's very kind of you to call that "autofill". I guess it's autofilling the filter. But not happy that no matter what (even if only my resort is showing as a possible selection), I have to select it (that's my right hand's turn to click). 

You see, my left does know what my right hand is doing!


----------



## Wolf&Sprite

One trick that I learned works if you are on a PC.  If you need to search the same location again, click on the location field and then click the Control key.  This brings up the drop-down list as if you had typed the whole thing in.  I learned this by thinking I could Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V my location but all I needed was Ctrl.


----------



## vacationhopeful

And I bet my nephews have WAY MORE interest in learning whether the left mouse button can kill the demons while the right mouse button looks around the corner of the building. LIGAFF!

Make the online SYSTEM very hard to use .... thus CHARGE more & higher fees to the end users IF they CALL into have CS do their bookings.... because the owners are OLD, less Gameboy experienced and are not on the system 8+ hours a day.


----------



## Bigrob

bobbyoc23 said:


> I keep reading about people being on hold for an hour or two. Do you have to wait that long just to speak to someone? Or does that include hold times while they try to resolve your issue?
> 
> I ask because I've had an ongoing issue with my account (they canceled my RCI account, yay!), and I've had to dial that number multiple times (options 3 then 2 afterwards, I believe). I've always been able to talk to someone within 5-10 minutes, and usually closer to 5. I am a small peanuts account compared to most here, and other than my RCI issue everything else is fine. I am beginning to wonder if calls from larger accounts with issues are somehow flagged or screened? Just trying to reconcile the different wait times.
> 
> I don't think I'd have as much patience as you guys, I'd start cussing and hang up after 30 minutes...



The option 3, option 2 is putting you directly into the Owner Care queue, instead of the regular VC queue. The VCs have been slammed, probably because they are working to find reservations using the same website we are. OC calls, if my experience is any indication, can be taken more quickly because they end up referring issues to a "triage" team. Of course if everyone starts using that option directly the queues will grow and... wait times will lengthen there too.


----------



## wjappraise

Sandi Bo said:


> You see, my left does know what my right hand is doing!



You have Wyndham beat on that front!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## laura123

I finally got to add my PIC contract. I could add to this year or next year. I chose next year.


----------



## Baby Jane

ronparise said:


> One reason may be that VIP without cancel/rebook /upgrade may not be worth anything.  The website is bad, but the optimists among us believe that that mess is temporary,
> The loss of discounts on every reservation is forever.


 
cancel rebook may be dead buy looks like inventory is coming in at 60 day window now. Maybe system was not prepared but eventually will work for most owners


----------



## JudyS

ronparise said:


> ...
> So what to do now....  Ive stopped looking back to the good old days (for me thats pre August 2016)and Im planning for a future without discounted vacations.


What happened in August 2016? I've been living under a rock (or more accurately, I've been sick in bed a lot) and am way behind here.


----------



## Sandi Bo

JudyS said:


> What happened in August 2016? I've been living under a rock (or more accurately, I've been sick in bed a lot) and am way behind here.


The great suspensions (of the strippers, rollers, and other "just lucky to be in that bucket" folks).

And in all seriousness, I should have said "Wyndham's inability to accurately manage account balances or be able to audit anything (even to this day) and their knee-jerk reaction by suspending accounts and never taking responsibility".

You've got a lot of catching up to do!

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/account-review-email-accts-suspended.245656/


----------



## raygo123

Baby Jane said:


> cancel rebook may be dead buy looks like inventory is coming in at 60 day window now. Maybe system was not prepared but eventually will work for most owners


I think some, or most inventory coming back at 60 days are cancel and rebook that don't work anymore.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk


----------



## JudyS

Sandi Bo said:


> The great suspensions (of the strippers, rollers, and other "just lucky to be in that bucket" folks).
> 
> And in all seriousness, I should have said "Wyndham's inability to accurately manage account balances or be able to audit anything (even to this day) and their knee-jerk reaction by suspending accounts and never taking responsibility".
> 
> You've got a lot of catching up to do!
> 
> http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/account-review-email-accts-suspended.245656/


Ah, I knew that a lot of accounts were suspended last summer. I just wasn't sure what ended up happening.


----------



## famy27

wed100105 said:


> Wyndham Glacier Canyon still showing no inventory.
> 
> Branson at the Meadows is back up though, and I was able to book Branson at the Meadows for July. Interesting enough though, it came back with a match, but I couldn't see the calendar to see what was available and when.



Glacier Canyon inventory is back, FYI.


----------



## GJWyn

Canceled reservations not returning to inventory. I booked and canceled a reservation for testing and it never came back. Is Wyndham masking canceled reservations from an account, so you can't cancel / rebook at all? I have tried this with two different resorts, both reservations never came back.

To that point, it would be interesting to see if anyone can see a 2-bedroom presidential reserver (no handicap) for 3 nights starting 7/20.

Also, if it was used for someone elses auto upgrade, never found a reservation that would have matched it.

Cheers,
G


----------



## Sandi Bo

GJWyn said:


> Canceled reservations not returning to inventory. I booked and canceled a reservation for testing and it never came back. Is Wyndham masking canceled reservations from an account, so you can't cancel / rebook at all? I have tried this with two different resorts, both reservations never came back.
> 
> To that point, it would be interesting to see if anyone can see a 2-bedroom presidential reserver (no handicap) for 3 nights starting 7/20.
> 
> Also, if it was used for someone elses auto upgrade, never found a reservation that would have matched it.
> 
> Cheers?
> G


No they are not masking reservations specific to your account - I have verified that.  (What location are you booking, I can check, but I've checked on other cancellations I've made)?

I do see lots of inventory on Extra Holidays    3 bedrooms at several locations (never before).  Interesting that Extra Holiday's can offer an ocean front room at Daytona Beach (and charge extra).  As a VIP Platinum owner my ocean front room is not guaranteed.


----------



## GJWyn

Sandi Bo said:


> No they are not masking reservations specific to your account - I have verified that.  (What location are you booking, I can check, but I've checked on other cancellations I've made)?
> 
> I do see lots of inventory on Extra Holidays    3 bedrooms at several locations (never before).  Interesting that Extra Holiday's can offer an ocean front room at Daytona Beach (and charge extra).  As a VIP Platinum owner my ocean front room is not guaranteed.



Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry that was at Clear Water Florida. It was around for at least a week, picked up the 3 nights and then a 4th came in, wanted to rebook but the 3 nights never came back. Tried the 2nd time for testing at Steamboat.


----------



## 55plus

Sandi Bo said:


> I do see lots of inventory on Extra Holidays    3 bedrooms at several locations (never before).  Interesting that Extra Holiday's can offer an ocean front room at Daytona Beach (and charge extra).  As a VIP Platinum owner my ocean front room is not guaranteed.


It's because the fix is in. When you control all aspects of something you can do whatever you want when there is no oversight - conflict of interest, BAD!  FYI: All three bedrooms at Ocean Walk are oceanfront units. . .


----------



## Sandi Bo

GJWyn said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry that was at Clear Water Florida. It was around for at least a week, picked up the 3 nights and then a 4th came in, wanted to rebook but the 3 nights never came back. Tried the 2nd time for testing at Steamboat.


I see nothing at Clear Water for your dates. :-(


----------



## Sandi Bo

55plus said:


> It's because the fix is in. When you control all aspects of something you can do whatever you want when there is no oversight - conflict of interest, BAD!  FYI: All three bedrooms at Ocean Walk are oceanfront units. . .


Extra Holidays can rent you an Ocean Front (or Ocean View depending on what you pay for) in a 2 Bedroom Deluxe.


----------



## 55plus

Sandi Bo said:


> Extra Holidays can rent you an Ocean Front (or Ocean View depending on what you pay for) in a 2 Bedroom Deluxe.


Like I stated, the fix is in. . .


----------



## Sandi Bo

55plus said:


> Like I stated, the fix is in. . .


Ha.  I wonder what kind of view we'll have?

There better be a newspaper!!!!


----------



## bobbyoc23

GJWyn said:


> Canceled reservations not returning to inventory. I booked and canceled a reservation for testing and it never came back. Is Wyndham masking canceled reservations from an account, so you can't cancel / rebook at all?



Their programmers aren't good enough to configure the reservation system with basic functionality. I cannot believe they would be able to mask canceled reservations from a particular account.


----------



## cayman01

Sandi Bo said:


> Ha.  I wonder what kind of view we'll have?
> 
> There better be a newspaper!!!!



I was in a 2BR deluxe corner unit. Spectacular views.


----------



## GJWyn

bobbyoc23 said:


> Their programmers aren't good enough to configure the reservation system with basic functionality. I cannot believe they would be able to mask canceled reservations from a particular account.



Ahhh... unfortunate bug then!  That's what happens when incompetent sales people get relegated to "programmers"


----------



## wed100105

I keep getting an error this morning in Firefox. I switched to Chrome and it worked. 

Thanks for the heads up on GC inventory. Weekends are mostly (but not all) sold out again. Summer is as well.

We're trying out Branson this year as a last minute vacation. We've never been to Wyndham Branson Meadows. I was able to get four nights in a two bedroom lock-off for the price of a discounted one bedroom suite. 

I was able to confirm a two bedroom, go back in and upgrade to the two bedroom lockoff, and then cancel the two bedroom (under my husband's name) in order to get all four nights in a two bedroom lockoff for the one bedroom price. 

Interestingly enough, I didn't have a choice to upgrade from the one bedroom to the two bedroom lockoff while the two bedroom deluxe was in inventory. I also didn't have the option to upgrade from the two bedroom deluxe to the two bedroom lockoff. I needed the lockoff because I already had three nights that I was trying to add the one night reservation to in order to get four nights. 

The website is just taking me more time to get less results than the old site. It's still very frustrating.


----------



## GJWyn

wed100105 said:


> The website is just taking me more time to get less results than the old site. It's still very frustrating.



I am getting tired of my wife having to spend so much time, seems like hours to do what used to take her 10-15 minutes! Bring back the old calendar that would list all availability.


----------



## melisarn

So the past 2 days I am trying to book my APR at Seawatch Plantation and nothing show available at all over the next 13 months... I called and they said Seawatch is one of the resorts they are having issues with and they too see nothing availability at all over the next 13 months.... Has anyone been able to book 2018 summer?


----------



## Deb from NC

melisarn said:


> So the past 2 days I am trying to book my APR at Seawatch Plantation and nothing show available at all over the next 13 months... I called and they said Seawatch is one of the resorts they are having issues with and they too see nothing availability at all over the next 13 months.... Has anyone been able to book 2018 summer?


No, I've tried as well. Seeing no availability at SeaWatch whatsoever.  Then I tried to book Westwinds for a few nights this October, and although I could see availability, when I tried to book it, it timed out every time.
I finally got through to Wyndham and they couldn't book Westwinds for me either.  Said they would "put a ticket in" and told me to try again in 4 or 5 days!  I'm starting to think that once I take my vacations that are already reserved, I'll just unload Wyndham.  It's getting to be not worth the aggravation.........


----------



## 55plus

Deb from NC said:


> I'm starting to think that once I take my vacations that are already reserved, I'll just unload Wyndham.  It's getting to be not worth the aggravation.........


I'm thinking the same thing - the aggravation with the new website and its limitations isn't worth staying with Wyndham. I love having ARP in Washington DC and at Glacier Canyon, but renting from another Wyndham owner who is willing to put up with Wyndham's BS and their piece of crap website may be the best way to go.


----------



## ronparise

55plus said:


> I'm thinking the same thing - the aggravation with the new website and its limitations isn't worth staying with Wyndham. I love having ARP in Washington DC and at Glacier Canyon, but renting from another Wyndham owner who is willing to put up with Wyndham's BS and their piece of crap website may be the best way to go.



Just don't forget that if/when Wyndham figures this thing out, discounted rentals won't be possible anymore. You will either pay the owner enough to give them a fair profit over mf  or you will be left with your pick of the leftovers (60 day availablity)


----------



## cyseitz

cayman01 said:


> I was in a 2BR deluxe corner unit. Spectacular views.


what unit #


----------



## cayman01

cyseitz said:


> what unit #[/QUOTE
> 
> It was the model on the 11th floor. I want to say 1163 but I don't remember.


----------



## jules54

I'm afraid I agree with finishing the year out and getting out of Wyndham. I had this great business plan that was growing right on schedule for when I retired in 2016 and could devote more time to booking and renting. Then bam OMG first in Feb. I lost platinum status as one of my contracts expired. I still owed over a million points, but Wyndham wasn't counting a couple of resale contracts any longer. So now I'm Gold. Then new website. Everytime I log in I want to scream at the time it takes. When I do find a different more effective way I can't remember what I did and can't recreate it. I stay off the site for a week at a time hoping there will be improvements. It took me 10 minutes and several tries yesterday to find the way to get to RCI. I mean truly I'm not an stupid. 
Also yesterday I was looking at Grand Desert inventory for July 17-27 timeframe for 4 nites. I found a smaller unit and then went back to check on a different size and wham have no idea what I clicked but it showed all the inventory in all sizes of rooms and point value that was available during the 4 nites. What did I do? Could not do it again. I understand this post has a few different topics sorry.


----------



## 55plus

I'm sure some owners made some money to offset their costs, but that was then and this is now. Wyndham wants that money too so it's 'to hell' with the owners. I don't know how the sales weasels can sell VIP ownership's knowing fully well VIP benefits have diminished. But that's where the small print on the contracts comes into play. You know, the small print they don't point out when you are signing the contracts - the small print that basically states everything that was said by any Wyndham employees is moot and the contract supersedes anything that was promised or eluded to. I'll rent from others and/or maybe keep a small contract so I can use RCI Last Call and Extra Vacation options.


----------



## buckor

55plus said:


> I'm sure some owners made some money to offset their costs, but that was then and this is now. Wyndham wants that money too so it's 'to hell' with the owners. I don't know how the sales weasels can sell VIP ownership's knowing fully well VIP benefits have diminished. But that's where the small print on the contracts comes into play. You know, the small print they don't point out when you are signing the contracts - the small print that basically states everything that was said by any Wyndham employees is moot and the contract supersedes anything that was promised or eluded to. I'll rent from others and/or maybe keep a small contract so I can use RCI Last Call and Extra Vacation options.


I have already "purchased" some non-Wyndham fixed and floating weeks, as a hedge against my Wyndham points. Additionally, these weeks are great traders and I can use them at the same or greater value I can my Wyndham points through RCI.

I'm holding out hope that they fix the issues with negative points in my account. If not, I'll be enjoying (and renting) non-Wyndham vacations in the future!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## Deb from NC

jules54 said:


> I'm afraid I agree with finishing the year out and getting out of Wyndham. I had this great business plan that was growing right on schedule for when I retired in 2016 and could devote more time to booking and renting. Then bam OMG first in Feb. I lost platinum status as one of my contracts expired. I still owed over a million points, but Wyndham wasn't counting a couple of resale contracts any longer. So now I'm Gold. Then new website. Everytime I log in I want to scream at the time it takes. When I do find a different more effective way I can't remember what I did and can't recreate it. I stay off the site for a week at a time hoping there will be improvements. It took me 10 minutes and several tries yesterday to find the way to get to RCI. I mean truly I'm not an stupid.
> Also yesterday I was looking at Grand Desert inventory for July 17-27 timeframe for 4 nites. I found a smaller unit and then went back to check on a different size and wham have no idea what I clicked but it showed all the inventory in all sizes of rooms and point value that was available during the 4 nites. What did I do? Could not do it again. I understand this post has a few different topics sorry.



Yesterday I was trying to make a reservation at Westwinds (again).  I was out of reservation transactions so needed to pay $19.  Ok, no problem. I filled in my cc number on line like I always do. No shock, the reservation never got confirmed, I just sat there and watched it time out, from time to time hitting the complete button again (big mistake).  So now I have THIRTY pending $19 charges to my credit card!!! (and still no unit at Westwinds)  ARGH!  I immediately notified the credit card company, but just wanted everyone to be mindful! I mistakenly thought that if the unit never got booked, nothing would hit my credit card.  Should have known better in this environment!


----------



## wjappraise

Deb from NC said:


> Yesterday I was trying to make a reservation at Westwinds (again).  I was out of reservation transactions so needed to pay $19.  Ok, no problem. I filled in my cc number on line like I always do. No shock, the reservation never got confirmed, I just sat there and watched it time out, from time to time hitting the complete button again (big mistake).  So now I have THIRTY pending $19 charges to my credit card!!! (and still no unit at Westwinds)  ARGH!  I immediately notified the credit card company, but just wanted everyone to be mindful! I mistakenly though that if the unit never got booked, nothing would hit my credit card.  Should have known better in this environment!



So, the only part of the new website that works with any consistency, is the part that bills your credit card.  It works without skipping a beat.  How very Wyndham of them.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present "Your Wyndham Brain Trust."


----------



## antjmar

melisarn said:


> So the past 2 days I am trying to book my APR at Seawatch Plantation and nothing show available at all over the next 13 months... I called and they said Seawatch is one of the resorts they are having issues with and they too see nothing availability at all over the next 13 months.... Has anyone been able to book 2018 summer?


I booked July 7th check in about a month ago. I need to cancel and book for August.  I called Wyndham and they said resort needs to upload availability.... they told me to just keep trying daily...


----------



## cayman01

Deb from NC said:


> Yesterday I was trying to make a reservation at Westwinds (again).  I was out of reservation transactions so needed to pay $19.  Ok, no problem. I filled in my cc number on line like I always do. No shock, the reservation never got confirmed, I just sat there and watched it time out, from time to time hitting the complete button again (big mistake).  So now I have THIRTY pending $19 charges to my credit card!!! (and still no unit at Westwinds)  ARGH!  I immediately notified the credit card company, but just wanted everyone to be mindful! I mistakenly thought that if the unit never got booked, nothing would hit my credit card.  Should have known better in this environment!



Unbelievable. Shouldn't it at least have stopped at 10 because that is the number of rooms one person is limited to for one night at a specific resort? I feel very fortunate to have booked everything for the year before the Great Debacle. Not even going to bother to look for awhile until they fix this mess. I know the owners meeting is next month but when is the SHAREHOLDERS meeting for Wyndham. I think some pointed questions there would move things along a little better.


----------



## dghenri

Baby Jane said:


> They usually said your million should be worth 1.5x that you should get discounts and upgrades on at least half your reservations. I do not believe for 1 minute Wyndham did not sanction this to make the sale.


My experience as well, upgraded to Platinum to take advantage of the 50% discount that was taught and encouraged by the sales person and now it is gone! What a scam, I expected much more from Wyndham. They already got my money so I guess they could care less. I expressed my displeasure recently at the Grand Desert in Las Vegas and one of their managers suggested that I upgrade to "Presidential" to solve "my problem" How can I trust them to keep there word just because I spend more money? Incredible.............


----------



## dghenri

happyhopian said:


> My only point ever has been that while some didn't like it, it was created and promoted for exactly what was being done. It was not, is not and has not been a rule violation under ANY interpretation of the rules. For MANY reasons Wyndham has implemented changes. In some cases to lessen c/r in some cases to make booking more difficult, in some cases to limit credit pooling - in all cases to devalue ownership added value. There is no one reason and in fact if they wanted to stop c/r all they ever had to do was randomize inventory return from 10 minutes to 10 hours and boom - it was over.
> 
> I don't get on a soap box often but anytime someone wants to call C/R a rule violation or manipulation I'm going to get my box back out because that is calling people who utilized it unethical and fraudulent when in fact all we did was exactly what Wyndham told us, sold us, promoted to us and helped us do.
> 
> As to looking back and going forward. Again - I am having great success. The only exception is bonnet creek but I've talked with several folks that are having worse issues. I still think that platinum status owners are going to have a HUGE advantage on the upgrades. In fact I learned that I can book inside 60-45 days and select automatic upgrade and if an upgrade comes on day 47 - platinum gets it over the gold who booked six months earlier where as before everyone had the same opportunity the disparity between status levels is HUGE even if only for a 15 day window - but that 15 days will be massive transaction periods.
> 
> Lots to learn and I enjoy the challenge. Have a good nite.



I spoke to the vacation planning department and they told be that auto upgrade feature would assign the room to whoever requested it first regardless of membership level.


----------



## dghenri

paxsarah said:


> As just sort of a curious bystander, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks a decent percentage of the upgrade opportunities are going to come around the 15-day mark when people (either unsuccessful renters or regular vacationers with a change of plans) will cancel to get their points back? This would be good for silver (and gold) VIPs who booked early and put in their upgrade request right away. (Assuming that when the system is functioning properly, that inside 30 days there's no priority given for VIP level and it goes solely by earliest request date.)



Finding a unit at all within my 60 day window to get a discount is the problem at many resorts. I have a reservation in Oceanside California for a week and it cost me 324,000 points. I would love to get half of that point total back but now I can't and I have been searching for another room, regardless of size or view and it's not happening. I feel like I got hosed..........you sold me on a benefit and took it back like a theft in the night.


----------



## dghenri

Braindead said:


> If that's exactly what Wyndham intended. Why are we all going through this mess with the new website ?


 I was told that the cancel and rebook was rarely used which I found hard to believe as it was pitched to me at many an upgrade sales meeting. Their rep told me that they wanted to make the majority of their owners happy giving them a better mechanism to get a upgrade. Although VIP members including myself who used the C/R method are casualties of auto upgrade they could care less. He suggested that I buy more points, go Presidential, to solve "my problem".


----------



## erniecrews

AT this point, Presidential won't solve your problem..


----------



## dghenri

erniecrews said:


> AT this point, Presidential won't solve your problem..



I agree, I am not that gullible but it does irritate me that they tried, so disingenuous.


----------



## erniecrews

That is who they are, as soon as you think you can believe them "they got you".  Presidential will give you an opportunity to book Presidential units that might not otherwise be available to Platinum or below.  Before we became Presidential Reserve, I ungraded to PR  almost every time we visited Bonnet or Canterbury, but that was on the old website "The one that worked".


----------



## chapjim

dghenri said:


> I was told that the cancel and rebook was rarely used . . . .  <snip>  He suggested that I buy more points, go Presidential, to solve "my problem".



Considering the total number of reservations made by all owners, it is conceivable that cancel and rebook was "rarely used."  But that is only because a relatively small percentage of owners were eligible for discounts.  Among VIP owners, the percentage of reservations canceled and rebooked would soar.  For me, it was 100%.  I canceled every reservation in an attempt to rebook it.  I lost one now and then.

As many here will attest, every problem with a Wyndham account can be solved by buying more points.  That is the answer to everything.


----------



## happyhopian

dghenri said:


> I spoke to the vacation planning department and they told be that auto upgrade feature would assign the room to whoever requested it first regardless of membership level.



That is not correct. I wouldn't take anything from them unless it was told to me by Owner Care and only if I had two different ones tell me the same thing.

Auto upgrades start inside 60 days for platinum, 45 for gold 30 for silver. Therefore if there is an upgrade available at 60 days it is going to go to the priority booking order of ONLY platinum members until 45 days then it will go to the priority booking order of Gold and Platinum and so on. That has been explained to me my a half dozen owner care reps. Has anyone else heard different from ownercare.


----------



## Sandy VDH

happyhopian said:


> That is not correct. I wouldn't take anything from them unless it was told to me by Owner Care and only if I had two different ones tell me the same thing.
> 
> Auto upgrades start inside 60 days for platinum, 45 for gold 30 for silver. Therefore if there is an upgrade available at 60 days it is going to go to the priority booking order of ONLY platinum members until 45 days then it will go to the priority booking order of Gold and Platinum and so on. That has been explained to me my a half dozen owner care reps. Has anyone else heard different from ownercare.



If the auto upgrade was working, which I seriously doubt it is.


----------



## dghenri

happyhopian said:


> That is not correct. I wouldn't take anything from them unless it was told to me by Owner Care and only if I had two different ones tell me the same thing.
> 
> Auto upgrades start inside 60 days for platinum, 45 for gold 30 for silver. Therefore if there is an upgrade available at 60 days it is going to go to the priority booking order of ONLY platinum members until 45 days then it will go to the priority booking order of Gold and Platinum and so on. That has been explained to me my a half dozen owner care reps. Has anyone else heard different from ownercare.



That makes sense, 60 days for Platinum, 45 for Gold etc. So you are "competing" for an upgrade vs. other members on your level with whoever made the initial reservation 1st getting the upgrade.


----------



## Timeshare Von

YIKES . . . 70 pages of discussion.  I have tried to use the new site twice . . . the first time a couple of weeks ago before our trip to Wyndham Nashville . . . and this morning to research our 2018 use.

I found out WM resorts can't be viewed on the site, so no way to know if I can even get to one with my paltry 77k point contract.  Then found out when I called that there is a $99 exchange fee to get to a WM resort.

When I wanted to look at points charts for actual Wyndham resorts, like Nashville, I was guided through the process to get there but then received a "not available" message to which the call center advisor said that I should try updating my browser to the most recent version.  Thanks . . . I don't need a tutorial on IT from a call center rep.

I wonder if I'll ever be able to be self sufficient on their website for browsing and booking in the future?  <<SIGH>>


----------



## Timeshare Von

55plus said:


> I'm thinking the same thing - the aggravation with the new website and its limitations isn't worth staying with Wyndham. I love having ARP in Washington DC and at Glacier Canyon, but renting from another Wyndham owner who is willing to put up with Wyndham's BS and their piece of crap website may be the best way to go.



I'm close to being in this spot too.  It's hardly worth the headache . . . it was easy getting rid of my legacy fixed weeks with them a few years ago.  Maybe time to seriously consider it again.


----------



## ronparise

happyhopian said:


> That is not correct. I wouldn't take anything from them unless it was told to me by Owner Care and only if I had two different ones tell me the same thing.
> 
> Auto upgrades start inside 60 days for platinum, 45 for gold 30 for silver. Therefore if there is an upgrade available at 60 days it is going to go to the priority booking order of ONLY platinum members until 45 days then it will go to the priority booking order of Gold and Platinum and so on. That has been explained to me my a half dozen owner care reps. Has anyone else heard different from ownercare.




so what happens inside 30 says when a cancellation happens.  will it go to the first platinum owner on the list? or will it go to the VIP (silver, gold or platinum) who was the first to request it?


----------



## paxsarah

ronparise said:


> so what happens inside 30 says when a cancellation happens.  will it go to the first platinum owner on the list? or will it go to the VIP (silver, gold or platinum) who was the first to request it?



My assumption is that (IF the system is working properly), it's the earliest request of anyone inside their upgrade window. So if someone cancels their vacation at 20 days, that becomes an upgrade for the earliest qualifying request regardless of whether it came from a platinum, gold, or silver owner. So in that sense, the initial assertion ("auto upgrade feature would assign the room to whoever requested it first regardless of membership level") would be correct if it's inside 30 days.


----------



## 55plus

Auto upgrades are not working. I have a one bedroom reserved at a specific resort with a request for an upgrade. I've been periodically checking available for the same timeframe at the resort. At 28 days from check-in there was 2 bedroom available. That proves the auto upgrade isn't working. All the VCs know is what Wyndham is telling them or telling them what to say. Wyndham turned into an untrustworthy company in a very short time. It all leads back onto who is running the company. Wyndham has a "let them eat cake" attitude towards the owners. It's only a matter of time before this all catches up with them. Hopefully sooner than later.


----------



## ronparise

paxsarah said:


> My assumption is that (IF the system is working properly), it's the earliest request of anyone inside their upgrade window. So if someone cancels their vacation at 20 days, that becomes an upgrade for the earliest qualifying request regardless of whether it came from a platinum, gold, or silver owner. So in that sense, the initial assertion ("auto upgrade feature would assign the room to whoever requested it first regardless of membership level") would be correct if it's inside 30 days.




Thats what I think too. So the upgrade benefit hasn't really changed at all ; Subject to availability VIP owners get free upgrades, Platinum owners at 60 days, Gold at 45 and Silver at 30. Whats changed (if they ever can get it to work, is the auto-upgrade feature. You dont have to be online 24/7 trying to grab one. The priority is exactly as you have stated it 

"it's the earliest request of anyone inside their upgrade window. So if someone cancels their vacation at 20 days, that becomes an upgrade for the earliest qualifying request regardless of whether it came from a platinum, gold, or silver owner. So in that sense, the initial assertion ("auto upgrade feature would assign the room to whoever requested it first regardless of membership level") would be correct if it's inside 30 days."


----------



## brownhaired_girl

famy27 said:


> Glacier Canyon inventory is back, FYI.



Glacier Canyon units got put back around July 3rd.  The only inventory that was available  was for after the Labor Day weekend. This would be 60 days from the date the inventory was put back.  Now, I fully understand that Glacier canyon books early and I hadn't expected to see a lot of inventory but there is PLENTY of inventory on Extra Holidays for July/August.


----------



## jhoug

Jan M. said:


> The user names and passwords that I set up for my husband and son before the change over work just fine. I have had 3 different user names and passwords that work for a few days then quit working. The last time mine quit working I had to call about another issue and the VC took a look at it thinking I had to be doing something wrong. I told him this time the information they had showing just for me had reverted to our old address from when we lived up North and that every time I set up my user name the information they had for me was screwed up in one way or another. When he was done trying a few things he said as long as I could access our account under the under names and passwords for my husband and son just to leave mine alone until things got worked out with the new website so we didn't mess up our account any worse than it already is. He had previously worked in IT somewhere so that was an interesting conversation.
> 
> We had our use year readjusted before the changeover. After the "Great Debacle" of May 21 I wasn't able to access our account until the following Friday. Early in June I cancelled a reservation made months ago and it recreated our July 1 use year. I was able to use those points to reserve something else so there are no points in that old use year. But that old use year has locked me out of being able to do anything but rent points. I have been waiting for about 3 weeks to get this fixed.
> 
> I also have a reservation they have been working on since June 3rd to get it cancelled and my points back. The person handling that case number called on Wednesday to say they were putting the points back into my account and he did it manually. So now I have points in this use year again but it won't let me use them and because they are showing I couldn't even rent points! Yesterday I spent 3 hours on the phone for them to fix what they fixed the day before. The person in owner care tried everything and I finally asked him to see if it would let him move those points to my 2018 use year. I opened my account to see if it would let me make a reservation renting points and it would. We were both relieved that it worked and I told him that anything is better than nothing. He apologized several times that we have to pay to rent points because we can't use our points and thanked me repeatedly for being so patient and not getting mad at him. He wasn't the one who made the decision to implement the new website and only IT can fix our account so why take it out on him.
> 
> I would be much happier if they could give me any idea of a timeframe for when our account issues will be fixed. I don't think even IT has any idea. Anyone have a crystal ball?




Had same issues.  Set up 2 user names/passwords for my husband and I.  My info crisscrossed to his email. and could only login with his login for the first 3 weeks, BUT was MY NAME on the account. Tried to correct the email online when I was able to get in for those 3 weeks.  Now shut out for the last 4 weeks.  Have reset passwords.  Seems to work then still can't login.  Get message "Something is wrong with my login, try again or register for a new one".  When I try that says Owner, Me, already has an account.
Called 3 weeks ago, got in less than 5 min,  VC only tried to get me to reset the password, then put in a "ticket".  Nothing happened, I call again today.  Got through in less than 5 min.  She got the link to me and the password seemed to reset again, this time with his login. Still no luck. Another IT "ticket" and another round of no ability to login.  And she tried to add my email (which I had already tried with the new login registration) got a confirmation email to my husband's that the email had changed, but everything still going to his email.   So here we go in a loop again.  The website thinks something is wrong with the LOGIN or the Email or the Password, when it (the website) was was screwed it all up in the first place. And still no ability to get into the website 3 weeks later.


FINALLY, the VC on my call today must have gotten the right info on the IT ticket so my husband's info was unlocked and we could make a new Login for him.  At least one of us can log in now.  Still our emails are mixed up.


----------



## 55plus

brownhaired_girl said:


> Glacier Canyon units got put back around July 3rd.  The only inventory that was available  was for after the Labor Day weekend. This would be 60 days from the date the inventory was put back.  Now, I fully understand that Glacier canyon books early and I hadn't expected to see a lot of inventory but there is PLENTY of inventory on Extra Holidays for July/August.


Based on previous comments I made about missing inventory at choice locations & timeframes and Extra Holidays, I rest my case. Wyndham is the fox and availability is in the hen house, and the fox is in the hen house grabbing the good stuff. Why? Because there is no oversight or transparency and a conflict of interest does exists.


----------



## tschwa2

There is also plenty of Glacier Canyon on Craigslist (33) and Ebay ( 38 most for July and August).  I don't think that's Wyndham.   The Craigslist ads are down for summer availability compared to what they were.  Checking this time last month for July and August there were close to 100 unit dates available as most ads listed 10-12 units/dates per ad.


----------



## wjappraise

tschwa2 said:


> There is also plenty of Glacier Canyon on Craigslist (33) and Ebay ( 38 most for July and August).  I don't think that's Wyndham.   The Craigslist ads are down for summer availability compared to what they were.  Checking this time last month for July and August there were close to 100 unit dates available as most ads listed 10-12 units/dates per ad.



So if availability is entirely gone for some, and availability is WAY down for Craigslist (33% of the units compared to this time last year), and EH inventory is UP, what other conclusion can be derived?  I hate to admit it, but the conspiracy theorists may be right.  The anecdotal evidence seems to support the contention that the new website allows EH to cherry pick the prime reservations.  And that would appear to dispel the notion that the evil megarenters were the reason the typical owner could not get a room at Glacier Canyon during summer time, or other resorts at their peak appeal time.


----------



## rapmarks

tschwa2 said:


> There is also plenty of Glacier Canyon on Craigslist (33) and Ebay ( 38 most for July and August).  I don't think that's Wyndham.   The Craigslist ads are down for summer availability compared to what they were.  Checking this time last month for July and August there were close to 100 unit dates available as most ads listed 10-12 units/dates per ad.



There is someone who has a Facebook page for glacier canyon rentals, she has a lot of inventory 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## tschwa2

But is EH inventory up or is it the same? I agree with others that say if they wanted to cherry pick they always could have.


----------



## Braindead

wjappraise said:


> So if availability is entirely gone for some, and availability is WAY down for Craigslist (33% of the units compared to this time last year), and EH inventory is UP, what other conclusion can be derived?  I hate to admit it, but the conspiracy theorists may be right.  The anecdotal evidence seems to support the contention that the new website allows EH to cherry pick the prime reservations.  And that would appear to dispel the notion that the evil megarenters were the reason the typical owner could not get a room at Glacier Canyon during summer time, or other resorts at their peak appeal time.


Don't you think some got rented in the last month


----------



## wjappraise

tschwa2 said:


> But is EH inventory up or is it the same? I agree with others that say if they wanted to cherry pick they always could have.



EH inventory is WAY Up.  And according to a salesman spiel last year (read with fair warning), the old (current for that time) website did NOT allow EH to grab inventory prior to 60 days.  The only way he said inventory could be controlled was if the local resort entered a "hold" on reservations due to cancellations.  This was supposed to be used for only maintenance issues, but he said they did it all they time for EH (he was at Bonnet Creek).


----------



## wjappraise

Braindead said:


> Don't you think some got rented in the last month



Year to year comparison would negate those types of concerns.  Same circumstances year over year.  This is a recognized standard for comparison purposes for every economic indicator.


----------



## T-Dot-Traveller

wjappraise said:


> So if availability is entirely gone for some, and availability is WAY down for Craigslist (33% of the units compared to this time last year), and EH inventory is UP, what other conclusion can be derived?  I hate to admit it, but the conspiracy theorists may be right.  The anecdotal evidence seems to support the contention that the new website allows EH to cherry pick the prime reservations.  And that would appear to dispel the notion that the evil megarenters were the reason the typical owner could not get a room at Glacier Canyon during summer time, or other resorts at their peak appeal time.



Conspiracy theories assume that there is a unified concerted plan . Anecdotal comments on TUG re: Wyndham generally do not support the idea of " one thought / one plan "

Maybe someone in management at Extra Holidays has a bonus clause in their contract based on the EH unit performance . Maybe that person is pushing to grab more units due to the current "circumstances" and the "rest" of Wyndham hasn't figured it out ( yet) 

How is that - for a crazy theory .


----------



## wjappraise

T-Dot-Traveller said:


> Conspiracy theories assume that there is a unified concerted plan . Anecdotal comments on TUG re: Wyndham generally do not support the idea of " one thought / one plan "
> 
> Maybe someone in management at Extra Holidays has a bonus clause in their contract based on the EH unit performance . Maybe that person is pushing to grab more units due to the current "circumstances" and the "rest" of Wyndham hasn't figured it out ( yet)
> 
> How is that - for a crazy theory .



How long before someone suggests we all believe some philosophical theory with "razor" in it?   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhopian

ronparise said:


> so what happens inside 30 says when a cancellation happens.  will it go to the first platinum owner on the list? or will it go to the VIP (silver, gold or platinum) who was the first to request it?



I waited to respond because I had a call scheduled with my friend triage person this afternoon to continue trying to resolve my negative point issues. In that call I asked them your exact question and I got the same answer I've been getting from Owner Care. Inside 29 days when all levels have been opened for upgrade - it will be in order of upgrade request only. Before the 30th day it is based FIRST on VIP level going, plat, gold, silver and then by date the upgrade was requested NOT the date booked (it could be the same but he made a point of saying it was the date of the upgrade request). So reading into this - if a gold and plat both request upgrade on the same exact moment, then plat would get it first. When the plat window opens, it will be all the platinum folks until upgrades are exhausted, then the gold by date/priority, then silver when their window opens by date priority.

ALL of this is subject to change and he told me that upgrades were not working as they are supposed to because there are inventory problems at many resorts. Heck they may scrap the whole thing....just wishful thinking


----------



## happyhopian

wjappraise said:


> So if availability is entirely gone for some, and availability is WAY down for Craigslist (33% of the units compared to this time last year), and EH inventory is UP, what other conclusion can be derived?  I hate to admit it, but the conspiracy theorists may be right.  The anecdotal evidence seems to support the contention that the new website allows EH to cherry pick the prime reservations.  And that would appear to dispel the notion that the evil megarenters were the reason the typical owner could not get a room at Glacier Canyon during summer time, or other resorts at their peak appeal time.


The mega renters were gobbling up inventory and keeping Wyndham from gobbling it up at 60 days. As the mega's cancelled/upgraded or trashed theirs the rest of us had opportunity to get some. Now with less action from the MEGA's, Wyndham can get all they want...now go ahead and tell me more about how they can only get inventory inside 60 days.

Wyndham has already said that they wanted to make more prime booking available, we just didn't know they were trying to make them available through EXTRAHolidays


----------



## brownhaired_girl

I certainly don't claim to have the level of knowledge as the others on this site and I may be completely wrong in my understanding of the "rules".   However, to the best of my understanding, owners are to have access to the inventory until 60 days out except for the units still owned by Wyndham.   Then, at 60 days, Wyndham can take  the inventory up to 90% of what is left.  Glacier Canyon units during the summer book up by 7:03 am at 10 months out after that one can only hope to catch cancellations.   I absolutely believe some owners have many points and rent many rooms and I have no problem with that.  I do have difficulty imagining that these owners are sending the units to EH.  I understand Wyndham may still have some developer units but I would be surprised if they still own that many units.


----------



## vacationhopeful

And that is the REAL reason the new reservation was developed and brought online ... for July 4 and the summer season for EH...IMHO. And it will add WAY more new inventory to CWA ... for free. And without ARP by deeded owners, it will be easy for Wyndham to prove ... lots of empty units for the CWA owners... just it will be the inventory with low demand or HIGH points value.

Can't "cheaply" build more beach front units in Pompano or Myrtle Beach; have no interest in 20 year leaseholds (have to acquire NEW units to replace those in 20 years). Eliminate the C/R action ... grab the more EH inventory 'legally', less reimbursing the trust for WAY fewer discounted VIP reservations, AND the final benefit for Wyndham, the older VIP owners turn their CWP deeds back to Wyndham ... only to be put into the CWA's "soup of deeds".

If the deeded CWP owners of a resort got together, could those owners 'partition' CWP for their own version of a MINI-CWA of their own?

My best resort to do that on: Royal Vista ... 93 units in total; all CWP points ... but Wyndham is starting to send deeds into CWA.


----------



## Vera Brazo

olivdav said:


> "Not Requested" Means that you did not Opt in for auto upgrade.


How do you request upgrades? I tried to call but the wait is over an hour. All my reservations were made before the new system. Thank you


----------



## Braindead

wjappraise said:


> EH inventory is WAY Up.  And according to a salesman spiel last year (read with fair warning), the old (current for that time) website did NOT allow EH to grab inventory prior to 60 days.  The only way he said inventory could be controlled was if the local resort entered a "hold" on reservations due to cancellations.  This was supposed to be used for only maintenance issues, but he said they did it all they time for EH (he was at Bonnet Creek).


You and happyhopian have posted that EH couldn't grab cancelled reservations in the old system.
I'm not buying that. If the resorts can put a hold on cancelled reservations. Wyndham sure as hell could of also.
Who do you think the resorts get their info from and answer too ?
You want to talk conspiracy theories. In my opinion that would be the biggest one if you believe Wyndham and EH didn't have access to cancelled reservations with the old website


----------



## wjappraise

Braindead said:


> You and happyhopian have posted that EH couldn't grab cancelled reservations in the old system.
> I'm not buying that. If the resorts can put a hold on cancelled reservations. Wyndham sure as hell could of also.
> Who do you think the resorts get their info from and answer too ?
> You want to talk conspiracy theories. In my opinion that would be the biggest one if you believe Wyndham and EH didn't have access to cancelled reservations with the old website



I'm just telling you what I was told. You are free to not believe it.  The current events suggest that there is reason to at least consider believing it.  But you know the old saying "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 55plus

Wyndham is determined to get their greedy hand on all choice cancellations just as they are determined to get their greedy hands into your pockets, purses, wallets, bank accounts, etc.


----------



## chapjim

wjappraise said:


> I'm just telling you what I was told. You are free to not believe it.  The current events suggest that there is reason to at least consider believing it.  But you know the old saying "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Just for that, I'm going to whip one of those philosophical razor things on you!

That would require an assumption that Wyndham has a level of competence heretofore not demonstrated.  [Occam's You Know What]


----------



## Railman83

Just got off phone with Customer care about ownership issue and as we were talking they mentioned that for months all sales closings are recorded (customer signs consent), and when he gets a recind request they can pull the tapes to resolve the dispute, eliminate the bad apples in sales etc.

Given some of reports lately this either isn't universal or not effective.

Thoughts.


----------



## wjappraise

chapjim said:


> Just for that, I'm going to whip one of those philosophical razor things on you!
> 
> That would require an assumption that Wyndham has a level of competence heretofore not demonstrated.  [Occam's You Know What]



Well played sir.  Well played.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## foundyoubyaccident

Railman83 said:


> Just got off phone with Customer care about ownership issue and as we were talking they mentioned that for months all sales closings are recorded (customer signs consent), and when he gets a recind request they can pull the tapes to resolve the dispute, eliminate the bad apples in sales etc.
> 
> Given some of reports lately this either isn't universal or not effective.
> 
> Thoughts.



When we purchased with developer in 2016, they were already recording the closings.  What needs to happen, is that all of the actually sale needs to be recorded to get rid of said bad apples.   Otherwise the situation is as follows... I don't know what she/he is talking about, when they say the sale rep said so and so, they never said anything me when signing the documents and we have proof.


----------



## bnoble

Railman83 said:


> Given some of reports lately this either isn't universal or not effective.


It's not even clear to me that it is true.


----------



## bnoble

I must have missed it but...what time does the new "day" start? I have a reservation coming up in a few weeks that I want to make at 10 months on the nose.


----------



## Wolf&Sprite

bnoble said:


> I must have missed it but...what time does the new "day" start? I have a reservation coming up in a few weeks that I want to make at 10 months on the nose.



Midnight, Eastern.


----------



## wjappraise

Wolf&Sprite said:


> Midnight, Eastern.



Some of the time it has been a few minutes after midnight before it shows.  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Nomad34

For the past 6 sales meetings I have attended it was for learning Voyager at their insistence and each time they only said in order to lower my fees I would have to PURCHASE CWA  Finally in June and they asked me about how my presentation on Voyager was I told them it wasn't up. Their boss came to ask me and then called sakes and they said when the computers were up they would call me which never happened. I wrote corporate two years ago and said wyndham's problem is sales,check in and parking can not speak to each other hence why we owners get the shaft.


----------



## Baby Jane

I see the website was offline for a while overnight and now is not working right. Sometimes I think the more they try to fix stuff the worse it gets. Every time I try to search it goes back to the previous page or I get a blank page


----------



## griffir1

I have questions about TPI and want to book a club pass vacation but I don't have an hour and a half to wait on hold - so frustrated - I'm retired now but three years ago was the manager of a web development team and I can tell you this web redesign sucks - you should be able to find anything on a website intuitively within 2-3 clicks - not on this website.  It is a horrible design and has bugs that Wyndham is not accepting responsibility for.  I'm extremely disappointed in how bad this site is.


----------



## cyseitz

It has been almost 2 months and the website is still working the same as it was the day they launched it...what's up with that?  I thought it was supposed to get better.


----------



## ecwinch

cyseitz said:


> It has been almost 2 months and the website is still working the same as it was the day they launched it...what's up with that?  I thought it was supposed to get better.



Get better.... as in "you better get used to it"....


----------



## Nomad34

ecwinch said:


> Get better.... as in "you better get used to it"....


Yes, I'm waiting to see if my website recognizes me as silver VIP and I can continue to c/r as always since I paid deadly for that privilege that others bought for pennies.


----------



## ronparise

Nomad34 said:


> Yes, I'm waiting to see if my website recognizes me as silver VIP and I can continue to c/r as always since I paid deadly for that privilege that others bought for pennies.




No need to wait

The point of the new auto upgrade feature, if they ever get it working is to make it impossible  to cancel and rebook as before


----------



## Nomad34

Another agree with you. I have booked 1br deluxe for my last 3 vacations so I will soon know.


----------



## buckor

Well, they finally got my account straightened out. I had negative points in 2 use years. They corrected one about a week and a half ago and the second use year end of last week.

So, I am finally up and running full steam...yay!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## chapjim

Not a top priority but I'd like to see Wyndham re-define the geographical regions.  It's a stretch to put Oklahoma in the South.  Used to be in the Mid-South (along with Tennessee) and even that was hard to take.

Maybe anything south of the Mason-Dixon Line is South.


----------



## Baby Jane

Is the site down again  I get a error message when I sign in?


----------



## Baby Jane

Baby Jane said:


> Is the site down again  I get a error message when I sign in?


never mind I got in on Firefox even though chrome has been working since new website started it didn't this morning


----------



## 55plus

Baby Jane said:


> Is the site down again  I get a error message when I sign in?


What did you expect? It's Wyndham's new dysfunctional piece of crap website so expect an increased amount of down time, problems and delays, and most importantly, expect the worse online experience possible. . .


----------



## Baby Jane

So far my worst fear hasn't been confirmed. I have managed to get 3 different families and us weekends for labor day weekend. 2 beach and 3 smoky mountains. May be with the rule changes people had to cancel more reservations rather than holding onto them until the final hour. I have always found your best chances to book is 60 day window then again 15 to 0 days before check in. It seems like that is the same. 2 of them were instant upgrades too. The website is painfully slow and wonky and windows do sometimes close on you for no reason and hate that check in day isn't discount day for whole stay. It looks that most or all days need to be in upgrade window  I miss the seeing all rooms available for 2 months as for us check in date isn't always set in stone but I was worried inventory would not be available in discount window.


----------



## Nomad34

Yes, I miss the system where all openings were listed and it was a game to see what would be available when the discount came effective. Times change and so does the game. I still look forward to the beautiful resorts and do not regret joining.


----------



## 55plus

Well, now we know why after all this time the dysfunctional piece of crap website Wyndham shoved down our throats is still a dysfunctional piece of crap. It appears Wyndham is putting the effort into their Extra Holidays website, you know, the website they use to screw us over by taking the choice reservations and renting them for their benefit. That website operates flawless and ours, the one they shoved down our throats, is still an abortion in progress. But who am I to judge? I just an IT guy who was a school district network administrator at one time.


----------



## Nomad34

55plus said:


> Well, now we know why after all this time the dysfunctional piece of crap website Wyndham shoved down our throats is still a dysfunctional piece of crap. It appears Wyndham is putting the effort into their Extra Holidays website, you know, the website they use to screw us over by taking the choice reservations and renting them for their benefit. That website operates flawless and ours, the one they shoved down our throats, is still an abortion in progress. But who am I to judge? I just an IT guy who was a school district network administrator at one time.


Now we know why they want us to move points to EH for their benefit not ours.. Messed up the reservations for all with this new website. What next?


----------



## Cedartree105

Can someone explain these acronyms CONTRACT DETAILS Reciprocal ARP, UD. ARP is advanced priority not sure about the rest?


----------



## Jan M.

Cedartree105 said:


> Can someone explain these acronyms CONTRACT DETAILS Reciprocal ARP, UD. ARP is advanced priority not sure about the rest?



Reciprocal ARP is advance reservation priority at an additional resort. I think it shows in your ownership details if you have this.
UD or UDI is undivided interest meaning all the points in one deed.


----------



## Cedartree105

Yes I have reciprocal arp, udi at myrtle beach and udi at smokey mountains. So basically I can book myrtle beach out 13 months in advance? The other resort would be 10 months correct? Myrtle beach is Club Wyndham and the other is club Wyndham select. Not sure how select is different beside the 10 month rule?


----------



## uscav8r

Cedartree105 said:


> Yes I have reciprocal arp, udi at myrtle beach and udi at smokey mountains. So basically I can book myrtle beach out 13 months in advance? The other resort would be 10 months correct? Myrtle beach is Club Wyndham and the other is club Wyndham select. Not sure how select is different beside the 10 month rule?



Club Wyndham Select means you have a deed at that specific resort. You can book ARP at that specific resort, but would need to wait until 10 months to book other properties. 

You did not mention which MB property shows up (or that you own), but it may show up differently because the MB properties all share ARP and can be booked at 13 months. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cedartree105

Ocean blvd


----------



## johnstonga

*
OK, I've mostly held back .... but I just have to vent.

There's lots of well documented problems .... but what's really frustrating is that the site cannot do basic search functions well.

I've got an early retiree brother who goes to Hawaii a couple of times a year -- and everyone knows Early September after Labor Day is a great time to snag a deal almost anywhere.

Well the first 3 weeks of Sept are now in my Platinum VIP 60-day discount/upgrade window and he's totally flexible on travel dates and length of stay.

It's gonna take Hours to find the best options .... 

I am going one resort at a time, 
... finding Studios/One BR availability;
... then doing additional searches to see if there are  larger units with overlapping dates ..ugh  
... just to take advantage of all the Basic VIP benefits that have Nothing to do with Mega or Mini renters .... I am charging my brother my costs..... Now I may have to charge him $10/hour to do the searching.

There are, of course, other ways to conduct such a search ... but I have found them even more cumbersome.

It's not hard to imagine this is what Wyndham had it mind ..... 
....Market the VIP benefits .... and have a reservation system that makes it very hard to use them.

"Sad"*


----------



## Sandi Bo

To add insult to injury... it seems especially slow this evening. I'm falling asleep waiting for my screens to finish rendering.


----------



## OutSkiing

Jan M. said:


> Reciprocal ARP is advance reservation priority at an additional resort. I think it shows in your ownership details if you have this.
> UD or UDI is undivided interest meaning all the points in one deed.


Reciprocal ARP is two things.  1) The kind that seems to show up in your ownership summary is when you purchased a contract that was originanly sold with one Reciprocal Resort .. perhaps because the original contract was purchased from Wyndham at a time when it was under construction so they threw in another resort's ARP as a concession.   2), VIP owners get up to 3 Reciprocal ARP uses a year at any resort they choose. It kicks in the 11th month out only (not all the way to 13). In the new web site, you can see this in the 'Points Caldulator' when you select a travel date that is 11 months out the calculator will tell you in addition to the ARP points available for use at your various home resorts, the number of Reciprocal ARPs you have left.

Before the new site, we used to be able to call Owner Care and they would make our Reciprocal ARP reservations for us.  Now, even though the new site shows them in the Points Calculator, it does NOT let us reserve with them at 11 months.  Nor does it let OC do it.  Numerous tickets and phone calls and it still does not work.

Bob


----------



## OutSkiing

Baby Jane said:


> Is the site down again  I get a error message when I sign in?


Every time the site goes down we get excited that maybe Wyndham is finally releasing the much awaited software patch to fix all the software related problems.  No such luck.


----------



## Sandy VDH

It is faster to search the entire region in two day increments until you find a target (resort date to investigate further.  An entire month is 27-30 searches, as a first pass.  Once I find a target, I might then pick no dates and see what other dates are around it, in various rooms sizes.  

The opportunistic search is virtually impossible without an extreme amount of patience.  I usually give up I find it so frustrating.  Thankfully, lately all my friends and family requests have been for a fixed date.  In that case I just hope for a possible instant upgrade at either the 60 day window of the 20 -15 day prior window when cancellations come back.  What I have done for most of my last reservations, is book something at 60 days, and periodically check for something better.  Seriously start checking again in the last 5 days before cancellation period ends. Only with 15 days or less do I book the guest certificate, unless I am able to catch the instant upgrade I want at the 60 day mark. 

Funny thing that is not all that different from what I used to do.  It is just now the upgrade has NEVER worked for me even though there have been opportunities I see.  I have even had an opportunity where I booked a smaller unit than what I had already booked, got a double upgrade to a 3 BR, and then just cancelled my 2 BR that I originally booked with the request for an upgrade.


----------



## johnstonga

Does anyone have a list of all the "Regions"  

I did one for "US - West"  and "US - South"  and also individual states with multiple resorts   ... but there's gotta be a list of these somewhere.


----------



## staceyeileen

johnstonga said:


> Does anyone have a list of all the "Regions"
> 
> I did one for "US - West"  and "US - South"  and also individual states with multiple resorts   ... but there's gotta be a list of these somewhere.



You just click on View All Destinations and then it displays all the regions. 






The default is View by State but you can change it to View by Region.  The regions and subregions are clickable.


----------



## Sandy VDH

johnstonga said:


> Does anyone have a list of all the "Regions"
> 
> I did one for "US - West"  and "US - South"  and also individual states with multiple resorts   ... but there's gotta be a list of these somewhere.



select the View Destinations link just below the Location book.  

You are then presented with the following screen, just select REGION link.


----------



## Sandy VDH

You were posting staceyeileen while I was opening and copying screens.  

Great minds think alike.


----------



## cayman01

Just wondering if anybody who has cancelled a reservation has received extra points back? We know that was a trigger for this wonderful new website. Have they managed to fix that or is the problem still present? 

AND if they did fix it would it be possible to retrofit the fix to the old system and switch back?


----------



## Sandy VDH

cayman01 said:


> Just wondering if anybody who has cancelled a reservation has received extra points back? We know that was a trigger for this wonderful new website. Have they managed to fix that or is the problem still present?
> 
> AND if they did fix it would it be possible to retrofit the fix to the old system and switch back?



Never had it happen on the old site.  Not on this either and I have booked and cancelled 30 or 40 booking since new system.


----------



## ronparise

cayman01 said:


> Just wondering if anybody who has cancelled a reservation has received extra points back? We know that was a trigger for this wonderful new website. Have they managed to fix that or is the problem still present?
> 
> AND if they did fix it would it be possible to retrofit the fix to the old system and switch back?



The extra points thing was not the "trigger" for the new website

The new website has been something that Wyndham was working on for the last 10 years. The "trigger" if that's what you want to call it was Geoff Richards' promise at the last owners meeting that it would be up and running by this years meeting

The extra points thing was the "trigger" for the suspensions that happened last August. In my opinion the reason so many of the suspended accounts took so long to resolve is that Wyndham expected (hoped) that the extra points thing would be solved by the new website

Having said that, your question is a good one. "Did Voyager" correct the extra points problem?"


----------



## Free2Roam

They are still manipulating point balances. 

Last week I noticed 24,000 extra credit pool points expiring Jan 2020 (with it's own date range) and 62,100 extra points expiring at the end of 2017. A couple days before the old system shut down, I booked reservations using all my 2017 points... including what I received from the use-year alignment of one contract a few days prior. 

As of yesterday, the 24,000 credit pool points were gone... the 62,100 points that expire in December are still sitting there. 

I haven't canceled or booked anything since the new system went live. 

I won't bother to call... I'm afraid they may lock my account until they figure out what happened.


----------



## tschwa2

time4share said:


> I pay 1800 a month on three million points and I haven't been able to book crap. I'm pretty feed up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Are you still completely frozen -can't make reservations online or by phone or any other transactions or can you just not log onto the new site- I hear there are still some owners in that boat?  If frozen how long has it been going on- last August or has it been more recent?  You said in another topic that you hired a lawyer and feel like you are the only one willing to fight.   If you are frozen then there are probably only a few hand full that are in the same situation as you.  Most are not affected so profoundly and it isn't worth the expense to fight.  The ones that are frozen are I imagine fighting or at least negotiating with Wyndham.  Perhaps their attorneys have advised against posting too much on social media.


----------



## time4share

tschwa2 said:


> Are you still completely frozen -can't make reservations online or by phone or any other transactions or can you just not log onto the new site- I hear there are still some owners in that boat?  If frozen how long has it been going on- last August or has it been more recent?  You said in another topic that you hired a lawyer and feel like you are the only one willing to fight.   If you are frozen then there are probably only a few hand full that are in the same situation as you.  Most are not affected so profoundly and it isn't worth the expense to fight.  The ones that are frozen are I imagine fighting or at least negotiating with Wyndham.  Perhaps their attorneys have advised against posting too much on social media.



You may be right about the posting. Yes I hired Finkinbinder out of Branson Mo. he is our company attorney. I am sending the letter out the end of this week to Kim Thompson head one in charge of deeds and transfers. Also Bill Dollar head CFO in Las Vegas. I had better get results. Funny the financial side of there system seems to still work properly to deduct mfees. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cyseitz

On frozen accounts were the reservations on those accounts put back into inventory or were they just in limbo the whole time your accounts were frozen?


----------



## ronparise

cyseitz said:


> On frozen accounts were the reservations on those accounts put back into inventory or were they just in limbo the whole time your accounts were frozen?



My reservations weren't affected during the time my accounts were frozen.  I could cancel and I could add guests names


----------



## foundyoubyaccident

ronparise said:


> My reservations weren't affected during the time my accounts were frozen.  I could cancel and I could add guests names


Are you still a wyndham owner ron?
With 30 million points?


----------



## ronparise

foundyoubyaccident said:


> Are you still a wyndham owner ron?
> With 30 million points?



you will note the use of the past tense in my post


----------



## wjappraise

Anyone else having issues this morning?   I can begin to book but once I hit book the reservation I want it just loops.  So irritating.  Tried chrome and safari.  Anyone else?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandi Bo

wjappraise said:


> Anyone else having issues this morning?   I can begin to book but once I hit book the reservation I want it just loops.  So irritating.  Tried chrome and safari.  Anyone else?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I am seeing the same issue as you.  Once I hit book, it spins for awhile then the circle of patience goes away, and I'm still sitting on the same screen.


----------



## Sandi Bo

And isn't this just nuts?  Over 3 months after the deployment and what has improved?  An auto upgrade here and there?


----------



## wjappraise

Exactly my thoughts.  But they prioritized implementing the auto cancel feature within 48 hours if no guest fee paid. What a messed up list of priorities based solely on greed. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## north

Has anyone had overlapping reservations cancelled after 48 hours when they didn't put different names on them?  I have noticed the message about adding the guest certificate starting to show up this week, but always ignore it.  None of my reservations has been cancelled so far.


----------



## jumoe

I received this email a couple days ago...

This email is a courtesy reminder that you have two or more reservations confirmed for the same time period under the same name. In accordance with the updated Guest Confirmation Policy set forth in the 4/20/17 Supplement to the 2014-2015 CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Resort Directory, it is required that a Guest Confirmation be obtained for any unit you will not be occupying yourself. 

Your reservation(s) will be cancelled on *Sept. 5, 2017* if a Guest Confirmation is not added by *11:59 p.m. Sept. 4, 2017*. Please visit _myclubwyndham.com_ to update your reservations by adding a guest name to any additional units currently reserved for the same time period. We strongly recommend you take immediate action so your reservations are not at risk for cancellation. 

If you have questions, please visit _myclubwyndham.com_ or contact us at 800-251-8736Monday through Friday, 8 a.m.-8 p.m. ET; Saturday and Sunday, 9 a.m.-6 p.m. ET. 

We thank you for being a valued CLUB WYNDHAM Plus member. 

Sincerely,
Your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Family


----------



## buckor

wjappraise said:


> Anyone else having issues this morning?   I can begin to book but once I hit book the reservation I want it just loops.  So irritating.  Tried chrome and safari.  Anyone else?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Same thing here...frustrating.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk


----------



## wjappraise

I called in.  They were able to make reservation.  But acknowledged there is an issue.  Ticket submitted.   I needed to buy points.  Should be $8 per 1,000.  They charged $10 because I called in.  Even though they acknowledge the website wasn't working correctly.  Gotta love the greed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wjappraise

I called in.  They were able to make reservation.  But acknowledged there is an issue.  Ticket submitted.   I needed to buy points.  Should be $8 per 1,000.  They charged $10 because I called in.  Even though they acknowledge the website wasn't working correctly.  Gotta love the customer service.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dagger1

wjappraise said:


> Anyone else having issues this morning?   I can begin to book but once I hit book the reservation I want it just loops.  So irritating.  Tried chrome and safari.  Anyone else?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I had this issue last week while trying to book a Spring Break 2018 Emerald Grande.  Spinning circle, then stop and still on same page.  Tried booking Avenue Plaza, it worked fine.  Then retried Emerald Grande, spinning circle, but couldn't book.  Called and they had no problem seeing and booking the week/unit I wanted.  They wrote a ticket to send to IT, I have heard nothing back.
But got the Spring Break week at least!


----------



## Sandi Bo

north said:


> Has anyone had overlapping reservations cancelled after 48 hours when they didn't put different names on them?  I have noticed the message about adding the guest certificate starting to show up this week, but always ignore it.  None of my reservations has been cancelled so far.


I've had overlapping reservations and gotten the warning.  I don't leave them sitting there, I add a guest or a different owner name (or cancel the one I care the least about).  I would think sooner or later, they'll start cancelling the reservations.   I haven't had anything cancelled, yet, I'm not chancing anything.


----------



## jumoe

Sandi Bo said:


> I've had overlapping reservations and gotten the warning.  I don't leave them sitting there, I add a guest or a different owner name (or cancel the one I care the least about).  I would think sooner or later, they'll start cancelling the reservations.   I haven't had anything cancelled, yet, I'm not chancing anything.


Has anyone else received an email about overlaps like I did? (text of email in earlier post)


----------



## Sandi Bo

jumoe said:


> Has anyone else received an email about overlaps like I did? (text of email in earlier post)


I have not.   I got them all the time in the old system (last email I got about cancellations due to overlapping reservations was early May).  

I've had overlapping reservations since May 18, but fix them (usually pretty quickly when I see the alert).  Although I did let one sit overnight, last night, and did not receive an email like yours)


----------



## wjappraise

jumoe said:


> Has anyone else received an email about overlaps like I did? (text of email in earlier post)



Yes.  I got the same exact email with the same drop dead date.   At login I also got the same warning without being told the cutoff date. It did give me the confirmation numbers that were in violation.  I don't want to purchase guest confirmations at this point for reservations 90 days out. So I switched the owner name on the impacted ones.  That cleared the warning.  I actually am testing the system (it's a bit of a risk but one I can take).  By that I mean I placed the reservations in question under my wife's and daughter's names, where I already have reservations for the same dates.  If they get cancelled I will be okay (one bedroom units).   Thought it would be a good test to see if the algorithm catches the new violation. And if I get another warning or if they just get cancelled.   

I will post the results.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ronparise

wjappraise said:


> Yes.  I got the same exact email with the same drop dead date.   At login I also got the same warning without being told the cutoff date. It did give me the confirmation numbers that were in violation.  I don't want to purchase guest confirmations at this point for reservations 90 days out. So I switched the owner name on the impacted ones.  That cleared the warning.  I actually am testing the system (it's a bit of a risk but one I can take).  By that I mean I placed the reservations in question under my wife's and daughter's names, where I already have reservations for the same dates.  If they get cancelled I will be okay (one bedroom units).   Thought it would be a good test to see if the algorithm catches the new violation. And if I get another warning or if they just get cancelled.
> 
> I will post the results.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I hope that there will not be a violation if the three reservations are in 3 different names


----------



## time4share

wjappraise said:


> Yes.  I got the same exact email with the same drop dead date.   At login I also got the same warning without being told the cutoff date. It did give me the confirmation numbers that were in violation.  I don't want to purchase guest confirmations at this point for reservations 90 days out. So I switched the owner name on the impacted ones.  That cleared the warning.  I actually am testing the system (it's a bit of a risk but one I can take).  By that I mean I placed the reservations in question under my wife's and daughter's names, where I already have reservations for the same dates.  If they get cancelled I will be okay (one bedroom units).   Thought it would be a good test to see if the algorithm catches the new violation. And if I get another warning or if they just get cancelled.
> 
> I will post the results.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Good luck. I'm still so discussed with this NEWwebsite. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wjappraise

ronparise said:


> I hope that there will not be a violation of the three reservations are in 3 different names



This is for my big annual reunion at Bonnet Creek over thanksgiving.   I have several reservations under different names.  But all the one bedroom units were under my name.  Now I have two of them under my wife's name and two under my daughters name. It cleared the warning.  If they get cancelled I will let you know.  And if they slide by I will also let you know.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## abeachbum

abeachbum said:


> Well, I got in.  Here's what I think, and it's just that, simply my opinion.
> 
> While I know there'll be bugs to work out, this thing is going to work. Not like we might want it to work, or how we are used to it working, but it will work. And it will do the things they said it would do. Not perfectly from day 1, but it will. It's here, and it's real. It will do the things folks wanted it to do, and the things folks feared it would do. (Whatever camp you're in!)
> 
> I don't like the reservation process.  Some of that is just working with something new, but some of it, in the brief time I had to look, is going to be incredibly cumbersome.
> 
> I don't know how long it was up, but would estimate less than 1 hour.  It may still be up for some, but once I left I wasn't allowed to come back. Based on the confirmation numbers I was seeing, I'd guess about 500 "transactions" were made and I don't have a clue if those were just reservations or anything it processed.
> 
> First thing when I signed on was a warning banner at the top of the screen that I had overlapping reservations. I also booked a new overlapping reservation; and as part of the booking process it gives you another warning screen about the overlap and you have to click on an acknowledgement of it to continue. The initial warning banner gave specific reservation numbers that were in the overlap; which makes me believe the cancelling of overlapping reservations will no longer be a manual process, but the system will know and will act accordingly.  If there's anything positive out of this, it is that at least now you will know what the overlap is and can fix it before any problems happen. It seems to be pretty smart about this.
> 
> There was a warning banner that auto upgrade was not working, but I successfully put in an auto upgrade request. I wasn't notified it happened, but it worked. So I tried it on another where I found available inventory that met the criteria, but this time it didn't upgrade. I think there will be a steep learning curve on what is an upgrade, and what the system considers an upgrade. (Maybe I'm wrong, there wasn't a whole lot of time to play around with it.) On the upgrade that did happen, I didn't see the room I upgraded from come back into inventory.  Maybe just coincidence. I also made a new reservation and was able to upgrade from a 1 bedroom to a 3 bedroom, so that's good news as it seems you can still upgrade more than one step (but with the auto upgrade searching all the time, don't count on it other than mud weeks or it being your very lucky day).
> 
> It will let you borrow points from next year (if you run out of current year points) and it will let you rent points, both worked just like they always have. At the end of a reservation, the confirmation screen shows what pot your points came from.
> 
> There is a history.  Shows everything you've done.  How many points are deducted and why, how many points are put back and why.
> 
> Booked and cancelled a reservation I made today. It was inside 15 days. The points came back like they should. Something new is I received a confirmation email about the cancel.... nice!
> 
> Speaking of confirmation emails, there is a change in the process.  No more getting the first one from the "do not reply" address showing what you booked.  Instead I received just the "your reservation is confirmed" email which is the one they normally email a day or two afterwards. (Time will tell if I receive another email in a couple days.)  So the promise of things being instant and in real time seem to be true. The email and confirmation letter look the same.
> 
> Searching inventory seemed slow.  It definitely was cumbersome.  I couldn't figure out how to do the broad searches I'm used to.  It wanted you to pretty much tell it what you specifically were looking for.  Exact dates, no ranges.  No searching up to 4 days before and after.  The orange "book" button will let you search across multiple unit types, but only using an exact, specific, check in and check out date. No multiple date ranges using that search process.  There is a way to search multiple dates but only one calendar month at a time, and only by specific room type.  And boy, have they made that cumbersome. You have every conceivable room "type" like 1BR, 1BR deluxe, 1BR vision impaired, 1BR hearing impaired, 1BR mobility impaired, 1BR presidential, 1BR presidential reserve, on and on; and it repeats this detailed breakdown for each unit size... 2BR, 3BR, etc.  For multiple date searches, you have to pick a room "type" (only one from those many choices) and then you will only see one calendar month of availability for that individual room "type". You can only search one at a time..... one by one by one by one by one........ each individual different 1BR type, each different 2BR type, etc.  I'm sure there's a better way to do broader searches (there's got to be) and hopefully more playing around will reveal something I missed.
> 
> Didn't look at ARP, moving points forward, RCI, or anything else, much other than searching, booking, cancelling, and upgrading.  There wasn't a lot of time.
> 
> It's here, and I think it's going to be pretty much like everyone expected. Except searching... there has got to be a better way and hopefully it will be back up tomorrow and I can figure that out better.
> 
> BEST ADVISE I GIVE IS WHEN YOU CAN SIGN ON, PLAY WITH IT. START GOING AROUND AND CLICKING ON THINGS AND SEEING WHAT'S OUT THERE. PLAY WITH THE BUTTONS, PLAY WITH THE TABS, SEE WHAT THEY MEAN AND HOW THEY CATAGORIZED THINGS. I FIGURED ALOT OF THINGS OUT IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME THIS WAY. AND I'VE ONLY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE.



1 year update. Not much change. Still dysfunctional. Can now pick a month, but searching availability remains difficult and cumbersome. You can pick a room size, but it doesn't break the room size into room type, so it may show a week of 1BR's available, but nothing is bookable or you don't know what options you have within the timeframe. Can't pick multiple resorts, only regions. Can't ask it to search 4 days +/-. I mean really, show me what is available to book. Upgrades are inconsistent. Inventory continues to disappear. 7 year in the making, 1 year in production, and this is what we get. More than just bugs needing to be worked out, it is like an infestation of problems.


----------



## silentg

This is about Wyndham. We checked into a Wyndham timeshare and of course they wanted us to do the timeshare breakfast or dinner. we said no thanks! But then he told us within the next week RCI and Wyndham will be split into two separate companies and we should consider joining Wyndham Vacation Club. Is this true?
We told him we already belong to HICV and he said ok then, and gave us our parking passes. End of discussion.
Silentg


----------



## chapjim

silentg said:


> This is about Wyndham. We checked into a Wyndham timeshare and of course they wanted us to do the timeshare breakfast or dinner. we said no thanks! But then he told us within the next week RCI and Wyndham will be split into two separate companies and we should consider joining Wyndham Vacation Club. Is this true?
> We told him we already belong to HICV and he said ok then, and gave us our parking passes. End of discussion.
> Silentg



I'm surprised they let you go that quickly.  Belonging to HICV -- there are lots of responses to that.


----------



## ronandjoan

Sandy VDH said:


> I was only in about 20 minutes.  After I figured out Chrome was my problem.  I didn't get to try as many booking transactions as a beach bum, but whole heartedly concur that searching for inventory SUCKS BIG TIME.  They have to be able to show you inventory in all categories or a selected room type, like they have now, you search ALL or you pick room size(s).  It takes way way too much time to do a search.....  I looked around and found NO other way to search inventory, ...What I saw was virtually useless .... It could take you an hour just to look at inventory across 2 or 3 properties.  I sure hope there is a better way, or I will die.
> 
> I too did a within 60 days VIP PLat reservation with an available upgrade, and I concur you can still go from a 1 to 3 in live inventory.  Whether that happens with auto upgrade remains to be tested, but the rumor is that it is a single category upgrade ONLY.


   Agree and I DO NOT think it will get better.   I’ve had it!


----------



## ilenekm

silentg said:


> This is about Wyndham. We checked into a Wyndham timeshare and of course they wanted us to do the timeshare breakfast or dinner. we said no thanks! But then he told us within the next week RCI and Wyndham will be split into two separate companies and we should consider joining Wyndham Vacation Club. Is this true?
> We told him we already belong to HICV and he said ok then, and gave us our parking passes. End of discussion.
> Silentg


I thought that Wyndham Vacation Club and RCI were staying together as part of Wyndham Destinations after the split from the hotel group 

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk


----------



## Avislo

Wyndham Club Plus/Access will both be part of Wyndham Destinations.  RCI will also be part of Wyndham Destinations.


----------



## Avislo

deleted.


----------



## Avislo

In addition to RCI Wyndham’s North America vacation rental brands will become part of Wyndham Destinations.


----------

