# Summer Bay point levels



## Mimi (Apr 23, 2008)

We are currently at Summer Bay Las Vegas for 2 weeks. We took our 2nd tour on Sunday, which ended up being a talk and no tour, since we had already seen the new property. (1st tour was last April for our deed exchange).  We were strongly encouraged on the phone by IMI prior to our arrival, and reluctantly agreed for a $75. Visa gift card. We later learned other people get $100 if they agree to tour while in Vegas. After meeting with an elderly sales associate, we learned that some owners would be assigned new Desert Club units as early as August, with ongoing construction in progress. It is not a total transfer, as we were first told, because Harrah's wants use of our property ASAP. We are owners of 2br-2ba units, but we were told at check-in, none were left. We were placed in the Tower in a 2br 1ba. Last year, we stayed in Building 16, which still remains, but may not be available for occupancy. The SB Desert Club grand opening is still set for November. Since our sales associate knew very little about timeshare, (or I knew too much) we were given our gift card and handed over to the general manager of sales. He was a fast talking expert in real estate who almost convinced us to convert all 3 of our 2br units to points for only $5,995. We learned this would put us in the *Platinum *category. It was this guy's view that Summer Bay Desert Club would exist about 5 years and then the owners would be offered a lucrative buy out. Current 2br units are reportedly being sold for $40.000. DH and I were advised that points owners would receive more for their units since they paid to convert to points. Another perk, at the Platinum level, would be free internet. We asked to have some time to think about it and were told we had to make the decision that day, because the closing was set for Monday, April 21st. The paperwork for conversions at that bargain rate had to be made prior to the closing.

After considerable thought and looking at pros and cons, we decided to stay in weeks and keep our 6 grand. We purchased SBR at low eBay rates to use--not to trade, and we DEFINATELY do not want to be at the mercy of RCI--been there; done that. RCI keeps changing the rules.  First it was weeks, then points, then point levels--what's next?  

So Monday, we had our ID cards made. Around the border of our card is the repeated word of SILVER, which is the lowest level of ownership. If doesn't matter that we pay maintenance fees for 3 units. Only points members can have a higher level of ownership. Silver members have less than 60,000 points. Gold members have between 60,000 and 125,000 points. Platinum members have over 125,000 points.

For points owners interested in knowing your levels, you can go to this site. 
http://deedexchange.summerbayresort.com/IMI_1342_PV.html

We have not regretted our decision to remain in weeks. We vacation at least 7 days at a time, and usually up to 3 or more consecutive weeks, now that we are retired. We believe it is not cost effective to use points for car rentals, airfare or cruises. If for some reason, we decide to trade our week, we do not want Summer Bay to handle the banking with RCI. For some weird reason, we are not allowed to handle the deposit ourselves and we have no control of the week banked. When we asked SBR to deposit our season 2 week in April last year, they banked a February week, which is the beginning of our season, rather than the end, limiting our exchange time. After that happened, we decided to use Trading Places or Dial An Exchange for future deposits in order to remain in control of our vacation time.

We are not happy that IMI is designating Silver, Gold and Platinum levels to Summer Bay points owners. We feel discriminated against, being assigned a SILVER level, as the owners of 3 2br weeks. We pay the same maintenance fees and expect the same service, especially free internet! Time will tell

A copy of this post was sent to all Summer Bay Las Vegas board members.


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## janapur (Apr 23, 2008)

Fantastic information. Thank you so much for posting this Mimi!

We _did _ convert our weeks to points for the same $5995 at the deed transfer signing last June. We then rescinded because we like to book our season four units for week 52, which can be reserved 2 years ahead. As _points_ weeks we would only be able to reserve at 12 months ahead. I'm not sure if it would matter, but didn't want to put our week 52 in jeopardy. Now I'm wondering if we should still do the point conversion, since we own eleven weeks (two weeks are already in points). They also wrote into the deal that any FUTURE purchased weeks would be converted as well. This waas because a few of my weeks were still in escrow so I doubt that they would still offer this inclusion.

Mimi, do you believe that there is any truth to the salesman's speculation of a buyout? Whom would this buyer be? It sounds an awful lot like the same promise veteran owners were complaining about at the last HOA meeting.

Jana


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## eschjw (Apr 23, 2008)

*You Did Good*

Is a points week worth more? I have seen them go for over a $100 more per week on ebay. Is it worth paying $2000 more per week to be at RCI's mercy? Not for me. So your badge says Silver and mine will also when I get there for New Years week. I am not going to pay *one cent more * for such bulls**t. They just want to part you from your money.
I do use DAE and went to Hawaii last year and am going to Puerto Vallarta this year. Oh yes, my next trade using my Summer Bay week with DAE will only cost me $1.00. :rofl:


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## janapur (Apr 23, 2008)

Other than internet access, what are the distinctions (benefits) between levels of ownership?


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## timeos2 (Apr 23, 2008)

Mimi said:


> We are not happy that IMI is designating Silver, Gold and Platinum levels to Summer Bay points owners. We feel discriminated against, being assigned a SILVER level, as the owners of 3 2br weeks. We pay the same maintenance fees and expect the same service, especially free internet! Time will tell



If the general fees are paying for the "free" Internet access then you have an absolute right to it - silver, gold or tin!  There is NO relationship between you or anyone else paying to be a points owner and getting Internet unless SALES, not all owners, are paying the cost.  

Don't let them play games. All paying owners are equal and have equal rights - and get the same perks.


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## eschjw (Apr 23, 2008)

janapur said:


> Other than internet access, what are the distinctions (benefits) between levels of ownership?


 
Jana, that is probably about it, if even that is true. I would think that the HOA would decide when and if internet access is free. I will only vote for board members who agree that all owners should have the same access to the internet. I wonder what James Reach has to say about this.

The timeshare salesman is only trying to do his job. He only gets paid if he can get into your pocket. I bet he would even lie, exagerate or speculate just a little bit to do so.


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## Mimi (Apr 24, 2008)

eschjw said:


> The timeshare salesman is only trying to do his job. He only gets paid if he can get into your pocket. I bet he would even lie, exagerate or speculate just a little bit to do so.



Ya think???  No specific buyer was mentioned, only the salesman's speculation that our land is too valuable to house our Desert Club timeshares. We have plenty of land for another mega casino/resort.


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## anne1125 (Apr 24, 2008)

I will never change over to points.  I don't want a buy out either.  I love that I got the upgrade to a 2 bedroom in the lottery and I want to keep my 2 bedroom gold timeshare for as long as I want it.

I hope we hear something from the powers that be about the free internet.  No reason that all owners should not be treated the same.

James?

anne


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## Mimi (Apr 24, 2008)

*Board response*

Here is a response from Charles McKern, President LVROA

I acknowledge receipt of your email and am looking into the situation. 

It will be difficult to explain to you as weeks owners that the timeshare industry is an ever evolving entity that is moving rapidly in the direction of points versus weeks in an effort to attract a wider range of consumers.  The points programs that are placed in effect by various resorts and entities such as RCI are  making more lucrative offers for the use of points such as cars, rentals, meals, cruises etc.

It is not for everyone and can be an expensive proposition to many.  You have chosen your path and will not be affected by those who choose otherwise.  The ID card that you received is a multi-purpose card which for some will simply identify them as owners and members of the resort.  For others it will (points) have a different meaning.  For all it will be helpful to assist the security of the resort.

We as a Board will do our best to insure that your vacation experience is no less enjoyable than those who choose to buy into the points programs.

Since this is a new program we will continue to monitor its use and progress to eliminate any adverse conditions that it may create to any owner.

We are currently awaiting a response for IMI concerning some of your comments and will follow up with a response in the near future.


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## Mimi (Apr 24, 2008)

Mimi said:


> It will be difficult to explain to you as weeks owners that the timeshare industry is an ever evolving entity that is moving rapidly in the direction of points versus weeks in an effort to attract a wider range of consumers.  The points programs that are placed in effect by various resorts and entities such as RCI are  making more lucrative offers for the use of points such as cars, rentals, meals, cruises etc.
> 
> It is not for everyone and can be an expensive proposition to many.  You have chosen your path and will not be affected by those who choose otherwise.



Unfortunately, today's timeshare customeres are no longer given the option of owning weeks from the developer. When you are only able to purchase  points (which is portrayed as the most flexible scenerio and what all consumers want) the control of their vacation time is not in their hands.


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## Mimi (Apr 24, 2008)

Mimi said:


> The ID card that you received is a multi-purpose card which for some will simply identify them as owners and members of the resort.  For others it will (points) have a different meaning.  For all it will be helpful to assist the security of the resort.



How can assigning SILVER, GOLD, and PLATINUM levels assist the security of the resort. To me, it elivates the points owners and discriminates against the weeks owners. My ownership is equivalent to Platinum (and I pay the same annual maintenance fees) but it would cost me an additional $5,995 for this designation. 

"*If the ID card is multi-purpose which for some will simply identify them as owners and members of the resort*" then our ID card should not have SILVER around it, since we are not points owners. 

I purchased to vacation at Summer Bay Las Vegas and do not want to use points for anything else!


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## ry"c (Apr 24, 2008)

See my post below, number 14.


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## lprstn (Apr 24, 2008)

I am going on a Summer Bay tour in Myrtle Beach this July and in Orlando this November.  So far I was not impressed with their sales staff.  We will see how it goes and I will report back.


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## ry"c (Apr 24, 2008)

I've added the Owner ID Program, which is really an owner rewards benefits program, to the agenda of our next board meeting that is on May 9, 2008. At our last meeting in March, the board voted to include all owners, regardless of affiliation or non-affiliation, with a grandfather clause. The grandfather clause means that owners who acquire their intervals after the move to the Desert Club will only be included in the program if those new owners' interrvals are RCI-Points affiliated. I disagree with this grandfather clause and some other features of the program.  Each board member has received comments from the owners who started this thread via private e-mail which has been received prior to our May 9th meeting.

James Reach


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## anne1125 (Apr 25, 2008)

James, will you let us know what happens after the meeting?  I hope I read in your post that you think all owners should be treated equally.

Look forward to your follow up post.

Thanks,
Anne


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## Mimi (Apr 25, 2008)

We received a call yesterday by a woman named Jenny that a mistake was made in our ownership level. We have been upgraded to Gold. Our new cards were given to me a few minutes ago by a gentleman named Trent. I asked him to explain why these levels are being assigned. He explained that this is a benefits program, similar to the ones used by hotels, airlines, casinos, etc. paid for by both Sales and Summer Bay. There are actually 4 levels: Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum. It was explained that a Bronze level is the equivalent of 1 week, Silver is equivalent to 2 weeks, Gold is equivalent to 3 weeks and Platinum is equivalent to 4 weeks or more. The point values are just as I noted in my previous post, with Bronze somewhere in the 35,000 points range, I assume. Since we own 3 2br weeks, we should have been placed in the Gold category, which allows us, according to Trent, express check-in, late check-out, free internet, and merchandise discounts. I asked him the difference between Gold and Platinum and he said there wasn't any (which makes no sense) but it served to end the discussion. The board is still working out the kinks, as noted by James Reach.

I am relieved that owners of weeks are being treated in a similar manner to points owners, based upon the amount of ownership and MF payments.


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## JoeMO (Apr 25, 2008)

lprstn, 
What Summer Bay tour in Myrtle Beach are going to?  I didn't know there was a SB in Myrtle Beach?

Mimi, 
Thanks for the info.  I would think a minimum standard for a Gold Crown resort would be free internet for all.  You get free internet at Motel 6 but not SB?  Do you have to pay to make a local call also? 

Thanks, 
Joe


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## lprstn (Apr 25, 2008)

JoeMO said:


> lprstn,
> What Summer Bay tour in Myrtle Beach are going to?  I didn't know there was a SB in Myrtle Beach?
> 
> Mimi,
> ...



They called me and I got a package with them...see the letter below:

Your getaway package includes the following;
~4 days and 3 nights in Orlando, Florida
~7 day economy rental car OR 2 passes to Universal Orlando
~3 days and 2 nights in Daytona Beach, Florida
~3 days and 2 nights in the Bahamas

***Transportation not included. Cruise option available. Applicable port, service and processing fees per person will apply.

Our packages are accommodated at one of the following hotels: Holiday Inn, Hampton Inn, Rosen Plaza, Metro Hotel, Inn at Summer Bay, the Ramada Westgate Inn, the Royal Celebration Inn or similar accommodations. Specific hotels are not guaranteed.

To view your vacation information online, please visit www.mysummerbay.com

Frank Preston, We are privileged to have you as our guest to visit our private gated resort property. Your only obligation will be to participate in a complimentary 90-minute breakfast or lunch sales presentation of our beautiful Vacation Ownership Resorts.

Have a magical vacation experience!

Summer Bay Resort
888-782-9847


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## eschjw (Apr 25, 2008)

*Some Summerbay owners are more equal than others*



Mimi said:


> Here is a response from Charles McKern, President LVROA
> 
> It will be difficult to explain to you as weeks owners that the timeshare industry is an ever evolving entity that is moving rapidly in the direction of points versus weeks in an effort to attract a wider range of consumers.



Dear Charles McKern and James Reach,

I am a weeks owner. I have a BS degree and am a retired computer analyst, Database Administrator and project leader. Please try to explain to me what is going on with this program.

Do you mean to tell me, that with this great upgrade and the big bucks that Harrahs is throwing in, only some owners will have free internet. Get your heads out of the sand guys and look around. Free internet will be available in most budget motels soon. Only a HOA board member who wanted off the Board real soon should vote for something like this.

Joe Esch


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## JoeMO (Apr 25, 2008)

iprstn, 

I looked at the link you gave and I went to the Summer Bay Resort web site and and can't find anything about Myrtle Beach?  What am I missing?

Thanks, 
Joe


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## roadtriper (Apr 26, 2008)

*BS*

As an owner of 5 weeks at the Desert Club([3] 2bdrms, [2] 1 bdrms) I don't feel I'm owed any more than the owner of a single 1 bdrm. nor do I think I'm owed any less than someone with a gazillion points.  this status BS sounds like a sales gimmick! and the fella that's spreading rumors about some big developer showing up a few years down the road and buying everyone out...  he should be taken out back and hung by his thumbs!  look at all the hate and discontent those lies have caused over the past few years durring the deed exchange process!

Free Internet;  it's 2008  I expect it!  as mentioned most motels/hotels have it. 

Express Check in; Yeah, as an owner at the resort I pretty much expect it, isn't that just good business to handle your customers in an expediant way?
souldn't all guests at our new resort get supper treatment? especially if some sales weasel is going to try and seperate them from $40K of their hard earned money? 

Late Check out; ? I think folks should be accomadated if this is needed.  I think currently they charge you $60 to extend 2 hours   that's a bit extreem in my view.  as with many East coast owners I fly the Red Eye out of Vegas, and it's nice to be able to have a place to hang out and freshen up in the afternoon before an all night flight.

Discounts at the Convenience Store?;  as owners isn't that already in place?

Again this sounds Like RCI sales BS to me!  here's a question...   What will the security badges of RCI excange Guests have on them?  if someone has 200,000 RCI points but owns in South Africa will they be Platinum? do they have Higher "Status" and get more perks at the resort than the person who has owned a lowly 1 bdrm for 20 years???  I sure hope not! 

Here is a thought....  how about ALL the security badges be the same?  except for the word "OWNER" for those of us who own weeks or points that are tied to an actual deed at Summer Bay Desert Club.  then if you want to have a few perks for "OWNERS" then so be it! but keep them as transparent as possible. folks who exchange into the resort and the ones who purchase unused nights via internet hotel booking sites are the ones who fill out all those ratings reviews, and pay full rack rate for a couple nights lodging, that puts revenue in the bank and helps keep MF's down!   I want those folks to have an Awsome experience at the resort as well, and not feel they were treated any different than their neighbors who may be owners, or have Mega RCI Points!   RT


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## eschjw (Apr 26, 2008)

roadtriper said:


> As an owner of 5 weeks at the Desert Club([3] 2bdrms, [2] 1 bdrms) I don't feel I'm owed any more than the owner of a single 1 bdrm. nor do I think I'm owed any less than someone with a gazillion points.  this status BS sounds like a sales gimmick! and the fella that's spreading rumors about some big developer showing up a few years down the road and buying everyone out...  he should be taken out back and hung by his thumbs!  look at all the hate and discontent those lies have caused over the past few years durring the deed exchange process!
> 
> Free Internet;  it's 2008  I expect it!  as mentioned most motels/hotels have it.
> 
> ...



Well said roadtriper. You have "cut to the chase" and "hit the nail on the head". This is nothing more than a sales trick and I agree 1000%.

You would think that the Management Company would be happy with the 1,000s of new intervals for sale at $30,000 to $40,000 dollars a pop and quit coming up with new ways to twist the owners arms and soak more money from them. Looks like this is going to be a mighty short honeymoon for the current board members if they go along with this.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 26, 2008)

janapur said:


> Mimi, do you believe that there is any truth to the salesman's speculation of a buyout? Whom would this buyer be? It sounds an awful lot like the same promise veteran owners were complaining about at the last HOA meeting.
> 
> Jana




Don't believe that lie for one single minute. I believe 90% of Vegas timeshare salesmen allude or straight out lie about the value of the land the timeshare is on and that someday it will be worth a fortune to those timeshare owners that own there.


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## dougp26364 (Apr 26, 2008)

eschjw said:


> ....Looks like this is going to be a mighty short honeymoon for the current board members if they go along with this.




That's sort of what I was thinking as I read through this thread. That and boy is the sales staff pitching heat. If all this is just sales staff heat, looks like it's the BOD that's going to get toasted.


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## timeos2 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Owners are always good marks*



eschjw said:


> Well said roadtriper. You have "cut to the chase" and "hit the nail on the head". This is nothing more than a sales trick and I agree 1000%.
> 
> You would think that the Management Company would be happy with the 1,000s of new intervals for sale at $30,000 to $40,000 dollars a pop and quit coming up with new ways to twist the owners arms and soak more money from them. Looks like this is going to be a mighty short honeymoon for the current board members if they go along with this.



Don't ever think that a developer (who is also management) doesn't see owners as a great source of sales revenue - far more than thinking they should treat them fairly. It's up to the Board to be sure that happens.


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## Mimi (Apr 27, 2008)

roadtriper said:


> Free Internet;  it's 2008  I expect it!  as mentioned most motels/hotels have it.



It may be 2008, but currently the high speed internet access at Summer Bay is provided by Hotel Internet Services with these rates:  Hourly $5.99, Daily $9.99, 3-Day $29.99 and Weekly $49.99. Since we are here for 2 weeks, we signed up with Cheetah Wireless Technologies, Inc., with a stronger signal than Hotel Wireless, for a Monthly $49.99 rate.


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## anne1125 (Apr 27, 2008)

Bob, you are sooooo right.

Anne


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## roadtriper (Apr 27, 2008)

Mimi said:


> It may be 2008, but currently the high speed internet access at Summer Bay is provided by Hotel Internet Services with these rates:  Hourly $5.99, Daily $9.99, 3-Day $29.99 and Weekly $49.99. Since we are here for 2 weeks, we signed up with Cheetah Wireless Technologies, Inc., with a stronger signal than Hotel Wireless, for a Monthly $49.99 rate.



Mimi, That's my point exactly!  it's Highway Robery.  I've had to use the $9.99 a day internet, also had to feed $$$ into the lobby machine to print out boarding passes.   It has become a deciding factor in MY travel plans, if the hotel/motel doesn't have free Wifi, I look for one that does.  
doesn't "Gold Crown" relate to ameneties and such???   I would think that free Wifi and a small Business center(computer station) with a Printer in the Lobby would be a relitivley inexpensive perk.  I'm assuming the infrastucture for the wireless is included in the renovations being done with Harra's $   RT


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## timeos2 (Apr 27, 2008)

roadtriper said:


> Mimi, That's my point exactly!  it's Highway Robery.  I've had to use the $9.99 a day internet, also had to feed $$$ into the lobby machine to print out boarding passes.   It has become a deciding factor in MY travel plans, if the hotel/motel doesn't have free Wifi, I look for one that does.
> doesn't "Gold Crown" relate to ameneties and such???   I would think that free Wifi and a small Business center(computer station) with a Printer in the Lobby would be a relitivley inexpensive perk.  I'm assuming the infrastucture for the wireless is included in the renovations being done with Harra's $   RT



The key is fairness. The Board (Association) has every right to decide if they want to have owners pay (nothing comes for free) for Internet access as part of the annual fees or if the users of the services pay or use a subsidized  model for a lower cost.  But what shouldn't be involved is any type of priority or perk given to owners/members that make a different type of purchase - example points vs weeks - as they all pay the same fees.  Whatever one owner gets (free internet, parking, whatever) ALL owners should get. The only way one group should get a unique perk is if the sales department specifically pays for it as part of a purchase.  I'd hate to administer that type of system (or collect from the sales people - talk about pulling teeth!) but if they paid then the perk would be OK to offer only a subset of owners.  

Anything paid for out of the general annual revenue billed to all owners should go equally to all owners.


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## Mimi (Apr 27, 2008)

Another issue mentioned by the salesman to increase the value of our Desert Club property was a possible traffic change which would make Las Vegas Blvd. a one-way road on the strip with Koval as the return road. Consequently, he indicated more casinos would be built on Koval. While driving on Kovel, DH questions the validity of that prospect because Kovel is not a through street. A right on Sands needs to be made and then a left on Paradise, which is a through street.


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## roadtriper (May 1, 2008)

*Help me with this*

I just dug out the original Brochure sent out to owners promoting the new "Desert Club"   it reads, and I quote " Here's what you can look forward to: *Every interval will recieve a larger,dramatically improved timeshare suite with all this:* # Fireplace  #Waser and Dryer  #Dishwasher  #Gas Range  #Roman Tub  #Privatre Patio  #In-Room Safe  #42" Flat Screen TV  #Wireless Internet"  

Now... I read this as (Free) Wireless Internet, but it technicaly doesn't say free???   what was/is everyone elses take on this?  are they changing the rules midstream? or did I/we make an assumption ???    RT


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## eschjw (May 1, 2008)

roadtriper said:


> Now... I read this as (Free) Wireless Internet, but it technicaly doesn't say free???   what was/is everyone elses take on this?  are they changing the rules midstream? or did I/we make an assumption ???    RT



That was the impression that I got when I read it. John Chase also makes some very good points in his contributions to the debate.


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## anne1125 (May 1, 2008)

I think if they try to interpret this as just available and not free they really misled us on this point.

We all believed the new pluses at the new location were ours to enjoy because of the switch.  No one expected any strings attached.

We're not going to be happy if they try to pull this.

Anne


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## abdibile (May 1, 2008)

I was told bz a saleslady two weeks ago that Internet would be free.

Nothing was mentioned about internet being dependent from Points or something.

She did not even try to convince me to convert to points. (Perhaps it helped that I mentioned I just recently bought resale but the closing was not done)

I think these are just shitty sales rumors, lets wait how it works out....


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## Art4th (May 1, 2008)

Everything else on that list is free (unless there's a bill accepter on the flat screen TV). It's a reasonable assumption that the wireless internet is free too.





roadtriper said:


> I just dug out the original Brochure sent out to owners promoting the new "Desert Club"   it reads, and I quote " Here's what you can look forward to: *Every interval will recieve a larger,dramatically improved timeshare suite with all this:* # Fireplace  #Waser and Dryer  #Dishwasher  #Gas Range  #Roman Tub  #Privatre Patio  #In-Room Safe  #42" Flat Screen TV  #Wireless Internet"
> 
> Now... I read this as (Free) Wireless Internet, but it technicaly doesn't say free???   what was/is everyone elses take on this?  are they changing the rules midstream? or did I/we make an assumption ???    RT


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## Mimi (May 4, 2008)

We were told the 42" plasma TV has been upgraded to 50". Maybe they got a better deal on those??? We were also advised that Harrah's original agreement for 29 million in upgrades...has apparently increased to 40 million in costs (chump change to them).


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## abdibile (May 6, 2008)

I was also told that the units get bigger Flat-TVs than in the demo unit as they have gotten cheaper. But what was installed in teh demo unit looked smaller than 42", so I am not sure about "bigger" really means 50" (which is really big!)

But the 40 mln instead of 29 mlon thing sounds very interesting!

I can not imagien that Harrahs just said "Ok, we give you more money to renovate" because they love us so much !?!

Did they give you any details regarding the increased amount and why it was increased?

Or can it be that the salesperson just ioncluded the 11 mln I read on TUG that the "developer" will pay for the additional units that are left over after the excahnge?

Some more infos regarding that would be very interesting!


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## Art4th (May 6, 2008)

My guess would be part of the reason for the increase is due to rising construction costs (mainly fuel which affects everything). Also...have you ever heard of a major construction job coming in under budget?



abdibile said:


> I can not imagien that Harrahs just said "Ok, we give you more money to renovate" because they love us so much !?!
> 
> Did they give you any details regarding the increased amount and why it was increased?


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## abdibile (May 6, 2008)

sure, the renovation could be more costly. Especially there is lots of competition for building material, machines and workers in Las Vegas currently.

When I had a look at the Desert Club, I could not imagine how this quite run down and big place could be renovated "like new" for just 29 mln...

But let us hope that "someone" pays for that increased cost and it does not end in an special assessment...


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## Chula Slim (May 6, 2008)

In regards to the wireless internet, please check out my post on the Summer Bay HOA thread.


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## Chula Slim (May 7, 2008)

*Do NOT Convert!*

I wish to add some comments to this thread as I just recently returned from a Summer Bay revisit and my experience was unpleasant.

As we all know, the sales force will resort to high pressure to convince a deed owning member to buy points from the company, but I feel that ALL deed owning members should refrain from doing so.  Here is my reasoning.

First, the sales person informed me that the internet in my new two bed room would be free, and then when I mentioned this to the CLOSER (Manager, District Mannager, -what ever), after he brought up this idea of levels of membership, he informed me that the sales person was incorrect. That since I was a Silver level member, I would have to pay for the service. Now, don’t get me wrong, I have no objection to paying for the internet, but I feel that ALL members should pay, if anyone pays. Remember, this would be an expense for the HOA, which we would eventually have to pay for anyway. Second he tried to intimidate me saying that of the 25000 (approximately) deed owners, at least 10000 had already converted to points, and I could wind up not being able to reserve my week when I wanted it. I that point I got angry. He also said, during the sales pitch that I would not have to give up my deed. Now, I know how most point time shares work, and my research revealed that a point time share owner does NOT own the deed to the property in question, but a deed to and interest in the overall COMPANY. It is known as a warranty deed in some cases, and by other names in other companies. It can in no case be compared to an real estate deed.

I have no quarrel with the HOA. I believe that they performed well. But, Summer bay has made me angry! If we give Summer bay undue influence upon the HOA, they could make the lives of the property owners miserable! I believe that the more timeshare owners (property) who convert to points, the more Summer bay will be able to set the rules. If anyone has documents (in writing, from Summer Bay) that refute this, I would be pleased to read them. I would be keenly interested in deeds for point owners. 

At the previous resort, I could point to a particular building, and say, “I own a piece of THIS property!“. If I am a point owner, can I say the same? I believe not! Be careful if you decide to convert! Read the documents carefully! If anything sounds strange, do not do it!


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## timeos2 (May 7, 2008)

*RCI Points does not take your deed*



Chula Slim said:


> He also said, during the sales pitch that I would not have to give up my deed. Now, I know how most point time shares work, and my research revealed that a point time share owner does NOT own the deed to the property in question, but a deed to and interest in the overall COMPANY. It is known as a warranty deed in some cases, and by other names in other companies. It can in no case be compared to an real estate deed.
> 
> If anyone has documents (in writing, from Summer Bay) that refute this, I would be pleased to read them. I would be keenly interested in deeds for point owners. At the previous resort, I could point to a particular building, and say, “I own a piece of this property!“. If I am a point owner, can I say the same? I believe not! Be careful if you decide to convert! Read the documents carefully! If anything sounds strange, do not do it!



I know you are upset with the questionable tactics, all too common, used to try to push a new purchase, points, whatever they have to sell.  But you are assuming something about the specific points program SB is offering - based on RCI Points - that isn't true. You *do not* give up your deeded property you simply commit it to the RCI Points system for at least three years.  You can still even stay in your original resort if you give proper notice under that system.  

So even if you did buy into RCI Points you could still stand on the new property and feel you own your 2 square inches or whatever it is.  

On another note I was recently in LV and took a close look at the old Summer Bay property as well as the new one.  I couldn't help but think back to some posts from a few months back where some owners felt the deal wasn't a good one and that they were "giving up strip property for off strip".  Say what? I don't mean to be demeaning but the old resort was at least 4 blocks off the strip in an area that looked more like a crack house development surrounded by the backs of casino's and parking garages than a resort.  So now you're 8 blocks from the strip but in a gated, walled resort that will look and feel like a resort.  All owners should hail the work done for them by their Board - it will be an amazing turnaround when completed.  There was never any "strip frontage" involved at Summer Bay.


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## janapur (May 7, 2008)

Chula Slim;519333I have no quarrel with the HOA. I believe that they performed well. But said:
			
		

> You can still say it! Chula Slim, I will bring my _points _ deeds to the meeting to show you that they do not differ from my _weeks_ deeds. The points only pertain to those who paid big bucks to be eligible for RCI points assigned to their deeds. RCI only charges $250 to convert each week, thus the rest is profit for the developer.
> 
> I just got off the phone after a long conversation with a SB rep and learned that two more of my recent purchases are actually points weeks. Those ebay sellers really don't put much effort into full disclosure. Luckily, it was in my favor this time.
> 
> ...


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## AwayWeGo (May 7, 2008)

*You Got That Right.*




timeos2 said:


> There was never any "strip frontage" involved at Summer Bay.


The (old) Summer Bay's clubhouse is reasonably close to the back of the parking garage of Imperial Palace -- not the front, the back.  It's actually quite a hike from the timeshare to the inside of Imperial Palace or Harrah's, adjacent to Imperial Palace.  Plus, access to those casinos from the rear is not pedestrian-friendly.  The selling point for the old Summer Bay location is _Close To Strip_ -- not _On The Strip_. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## roadtriper (May 7, 2008)

timeos2 said:


> I don't mean to be demeaning but the old resort was at least 4 blocks off the strip in an area that looked more like a crack house development


   That's a pretty fair description! I wasn't an owner  Back when it was ramada suites, but we use to walk through that neighborhood as a shortcut between the strip and places we were staying on Flamingo. there were some pretty low rent Apartment buildings dispersed throughout the neighborhood. and there were some pretty shady looking folks hanging around (even by vegas standards)!  and I remember a cabby refering to that section of Koval Ave. as  "Drug Alley"      Summerbay cleaned up the neighborhood and added a lot more light and security to where you can walk through at night, but the neighborhood is definatly  seen better days. and now with all the unused properties being stripped and demolished...
the move to the Desert Club will be like night and day!  RT


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## UWSurfer (May 30, 2008)

What is the process of converting back a "points" week in RCI at Summer Bay back to a seasonal week?

I'm interested in a week which is deeded in a season I'd want to use and I'm not interested in paying RCI for the purposes of using it via their points.  I've got enough points with HGVC.

Does anyone know what's involved?


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## timeos2 (May 30, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> What is the process of converting back a "points" week in RCI at Summer Bay back to a seasonal week?
> 
> I'm interested in a week which is deeded in a season I'd want to use and I'm not interested in paying RCI for the purposes of using it via their points.  I've got enough points with HGVC.
> 
> Does anyone know what's involved?



Don't pay for the RCI Points annual fee and your week reverts to straight deeded use.


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## UWSurfer (May 30, 2008)

Did I not read there is a three year committment to RCI points?   Thus, do I have to stay in it until the three years have come & gone?


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## Mimi (May 31, 2008)

UWSurfer said:


> What is the process of converting back a "points" week in RCI at Summer Bay back to a seasonal week?
> 
> I'm interested in a week which is deeded in a season I'd want to use and I'm not interested in paying RCI for the purposes of using it via their points.  I've got enough points with HGVC.
> 
> Does anyone know what's involved?



I don't think it is possible to convert points back to weeks. The sales staff are only selling points. I would think the only way you could purchase a week in the season you want is to find an owner who wants to sell a week during that particular time frame.


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## timeos2 (May 31, 2008)

*Sure you can back out*



Mimi said:


> I don't think it is possible to convert points back to weeks. The sales staff are only selling points. I would think the only way you could purchase a week in the season you want is to find an owner who wants to sell a week during that particular time frame.



RCI Points are not a trust or deed by themselves. You have to own the rights (deed, RTU whatever) to a timeshare and then commit the use rights to RCI Points for three years. If at the end of the three years you no longer want to be in points you revert to your deed/RTU/whatever.  So you can always convert back.  It is NOT the story with points based developer (non-RCI) systems. Those you are buying as points and have no out in most cases.


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## AwayWeGo (May 31, 2008)

*For Big Bux ?*




timeos2 said:


> If at the end of the three years you no longer want to be in points you revert to your deed/RTU/whatever.  So you can always convert back.


Some points timeshares are said to charge big bux to convert an owner's week to points.  Say the owner decided to go back to weeks after 3 years, but then later on decides to get back into points.  Does the points timeshare charge big bux again for _reconversion_ to points? 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## timeos2 (Jun 1, 2008)

AwayWeGo said:


> Some points timeshares are said to charge big bux to convert an owner's week to points.  Say the owner decided to go back to weeks after 3 years, but then later on decides to get back into points.  Does the points timeshare charge big bux again for _reconversion_ to points?
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



But of course! Would you have it any other way?  This is timeshare after all.


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