# Was about to push the "purchase" button on a Wyndham TS; now... not so sure?



## mayamart (Jan 9, 2021)

I had done countless hours of research (I estimate 30+ hours of reading) over the past couple of months on purchasing a resale timeshare. We were wavering back and forth between Wyndham Kona Hawaiian or Waikiki Beach Club, Imperial Waikiki, or Club Donatello (close to home). We would use the TS only once per year or bank for a different location. We also take at least six 3-5 day trips and would need to have access to hotel deals. Even with all the reading, I was still confused by difference or benefits of CWS, CWA, Presidential Reserve, CWD, and Wyndham deeded vs Wyndham points. 

Still decided on a Wyndham purchase anyway, so we can tap into the other Wyndham network/hotel offerings. Was literally ready to purchase Kona Hawaiian this weekend.

With the announcement of the Travel + Leisure acquisition, we may wait to see how that will effect the current Wyndham TS owners. Maybe they will fair better or maybe they will fair worse.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Should we go ahead and take the plunge anyway?


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## WyndhamBarter (Jan 9, 2021)

If you're west coast based, I hope you've also considered Worldmark (owned
by Wyndham, but separate).  We own both.

There are a *lot* more WM's in the West than Wyndhams, and you will pay a $99
exchange fee every time you use Wyndham points to use WM-only locations.
(And you won't get any advance booking privileges at WM.)

The part of WM we use the most is called Bonus Time - it's great for inexpensive
cash bookings at the last minute - it only works two weeks out.

Back on Wyndham - as dozens of other here will tell you - it doesn't matter as much
as you might think what location you own unless you are booking hard-to-get
weeks, like spring break and the holidays.  At ten months out, all Wyndham points
work equally well at all still-available locations.

Good luck with your decision - just wanted to provide more context!


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## geist1223 (Jan 9, 2021)

Once again Wyndham does not "Own" Worldmark. Cendant, then Wyndham, then Wyndham Destinations, so to be Travel and Leisure bought the Development Rights for Worldmrk Resorts from Trendwest. What does this mean. Wyndham builds new Resorts. After they are completed Wyndham transfers the Deeds (with no debt) to Worldmark. One is currently being finished near Arches National Park in Utah. Wyndham will also acquire all or part of established Resorts, rehabilitate them and Transfer the Deed to Worldmark. Wyndham then has the right to sell the Worldmark Points from these Resorts. Wyndham pays MF to Worldmark for all unsold Points held by the Corporation. Worldmark and Wyndham also have an agreement in which Wyndham takes over defaulted Accounts (Points), pays the outstanding MF to Worldmark, and then can sell those Points.

As a separate matter the WM BOD has retained Wyndham as the day to day manager for its Resorts for which Wyndham is paid a Management Fee. Technically the WM BOD could terminate Wyndham as the day to day manager.   Never going to happen.


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## kaljor (Jan 10, 2021)

So effectively there's no difference between Wyndham owning and Wyndham managing?


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## kaljor (Jan 10, 2021)

mayamart said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on this? Should we go ahead and take the plunge anyway?



You mentioned a lot of topics.  I can try to simplify what things you raised that are a concern.

Wyndham works on the "Home Resort" basis.  You have the right to make reservations 3 months earlier at your home resort than others do.  CWS means you have one home resort.  CWA is ownership in a pool that includes all or mostly all Wyndham resorts, so you have Home Resort early booking rights at all the locations in that pool.  CWA has higher annual Maintenance Fees than many of the individual resorts because that fee is the average of their entire ownership. 
So an average means it's higher than some, and lower than some.  It also owns a fixed amount of interest in each of the resorts it owns, and that inventory is kept separate for early booking purposes.

Presidential Reserve is a whole different animal and somewhat specialized, and probably doesn't affect you. I don't know what CWD is.  Wyndham deeded vs. Wyndham points is essentially meaningless today.  There is probably a legal difference that I don't understand, but for joining the system today, you should probably just worry about points.

The main concern that most new buyers have is to buy a contract that has a good price per point, and a contract that carries lower maintenance fees.  That's because at 10 months before your booking date, points are points.  They are all equal.  The main reason to consider anything else is if you often want to go to a particular resort during a particular week that is in high demand every year. Like New Orleans for Mardi Gras or Washington for Presidential inaugurations, or Orlando for Disney 50th anniversary.  Then, not being able to book until 10 months out may mean that you're shut out.

I don't know anything about availability at the Hawaii resorts.  Maybe others can post about that.  To me the principle is if you know you want to be able to go to a high demand resort week, then buy enough CWS points at that resort for the week you want, and also buy enough CWA points to cover that same week. That way you'll have early access to all the inventory for that week.  If you are not tied into any specific week at any specific resort, then you're probably better off concentrating on waiting and finding a reasonably priced contract that has enough points for you and is in a place with maintenance fees that are on the lower side  of the average.  Remember, at 10 months out points are points.

Other advice that I offer at no charge is do more research.  You said you might have spent 30 hours on it and that's good, but not really enough because of the many variables.  Keep reading and come back here and ask more questions.   I don't think Wyndham resale points are going to go up in value anytime soon.


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## Eric B (Jan 10, 2021)

IMHO, if your goal is to book Hawaiian resorts, look into which ones you want to use in particular and any additional programs that are available that would be helpful.  In Club Wyndham, there is also a set of Hawaiian resorts that are in the "Outrigger Resort Club" (ORC) that provides for an exclusive reservation window starting at 12 months to the other resorts in the group in addition to the 13-month ARP at the home resort someone owns.  They are also supposed to set aside "up to 25% of unreserved ORC inventory ... for the exclusive access of ORC members" between 10 and 3 months in advance (of course, up to 25% can technically be satisfied by setting aside none of it, but I believe what they are trying to say is that it starts out at 25% at 10 months and might go down as ORC members reserve that inventory).

I don't have a comprehensive list of which resorts are in ORC, but it includes Bali Hai, where I own, Waikiki Beach Walk, Kona Hawaiian Resort, and Royal Sea Cliff.  On that list, the MFs/kPoints for 2021 are $3.84 for Bali Hai, $5.29 for Waikiki Beach Walk, $5.60 for Kona, and $6.35 for Royal Sea Cliff.  There might be others in the group that I'm unaware of; I believe Shearwater does very well on the MFs for converted weeks, but don't know if it's in ORC and haven't seen all that many as resales.  Bali Hai does show up as resale sort of regularly and generally costs a premium as compared to other Wyndham resorts because of the low MF.

ORC also allows booking at some associate resorts/hotels through Wyndham, but the cost in points is on the high side and probably not worth it.  I haven't seen a lot of availability for those, either.  In any case, I haven't really seen any great difficulty in being able to book the Wyndham Hawaiian resorts at the 10 month point or heard of folks having difficulty, so any other Club Wyndham Select (i.e., deeded resort ownership) with a low MF should work for getting access.

There's also a new product they are selling, Club Wyndham Prefer Hawaii, which is a conversion of the Shell Vacation Hawaiian grouping and allows priority access to those resorts.  From what I've read, the MFs for that are on the high side as compared to other ownerships.

Finally, I don't think the rebranding under Travel + Leisure for the parent company will change anything about how Club Wyndham itself works.  There may be changes to the ancillary things like outlets available to use points for non-Club Wyndham stays that are currently the PlusPartners things, but those were never a good use of points as compared to the underlying cost of those points.  YMMV, of course.


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## Jan M. (Jan 10, 2021)

kaljor said:


> So effectively there's no difference between Wyndham owning and Wyndham managing?



I know the topic of Wyndham "owning" resorts has been discussed in the past but as per usual for me I can't fully remember what was said.

Wyndham's business model is to have an agreement with a developer of a property. The developer owns the land and building. Some resorts have mixed use and some don't. Wyndham specifies how their units will be laid out and furnished. Wyndham is the sales agent and management company for the resort. Wyndham retains ownership of enough points in the various units at the resort to keep one or more of their people on the board of directors for the resort to ensure they don't get replaced as the management company. That is very lucrative.

Here's what I'm not sure about. I thought someone said there are a couple of resorts that Wyndham does actually own. Perhaps they're a carryover from the Fairfield days?

There are some resorts Wyndham doesn't manage. Star Island, Emerald Grande, Reunion are three I know of and I'm sure there are a few more.

I think Worldmark may actually own their resorts.


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## geist1223 (Jan 10, 2021)

Yes WM holds the Deeds to its Resorts.

You DO NOT have a Home Resort with WM.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jan 11, 2021)

kaljor said:


> Wyndham works on the "Home Resort" basis.  You have the right to make reservations 3 months earlier at your home resort than others do.  CWS means you have one home resort.  CWA is ownership in a pool that includes all or mostly all Wyndham resorts, so you have Home Resort early booking rights at all the locations in that pool.  CWA has higher annual Maintenance Fees than many of the individual resorts because that fee is the average of their entire ownership.
> So an average means it's higher than some, and lower than some.  It also owns a fixed amount of interest in each of the resorts it owns, and that inventory is kept separate for early booking purposes.



Couple of important caveats on the ARP booking window for home resorts outlined above that are worthy of consideration dependent upon the resorts that are important to you for reservations.  

You can book at your home resort in the ARP window as mentioned above, via the fixed amount of ownership interest only.  Please remember that you are still competing with everyone else that also owns either CWA or CWS inventory - and you are competing for the same subset of inventory that the ownership types actually holds.  For example, as mentioned, CWA holds inventory at 70+ "home" resorts - but in some cases - CWA only holds a small percentage of deeds when compared to CWS.  

I say this because, if Hawaii resort ARP reservations are important to you, CWA holds zero inventory at any Hawaiian resort locations - at least according to the spreadsheet that I've been using to track ongoing CWA ownership holdings via the CWA POS (Public Offering Statement) that is published periodically.  So if ARP is important to you at any respective Hawaiian resorts - CWA is likely not a good match for your vacation preferences.  

That said, I don't know much about the Hawaiian resorts and whether ARP is really necessary for reservations during peak times, others here who own in Hawaii or vacation regularly at these resorts can provide this type of detailed guidance.  If ARP isn't really important and/or necessary to obtain the reservations you seek - then CWA may still work for you since all inventory (except for PR and MVC) is pooled in the standard booking window at ten months and under.


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## pedro47 (Jan 11, 2021)

Suggestion only. Take your time. That timeshare resort will be here today, tomorrow and in the future. IMHO.


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## Sandy VDH (Jan 11, 2021)

Don't expect much change except for some branding alignments.  Product will likely not be impacted at all.


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## MaryBella7 (Jan 11, 2021)

You mention the hotels a couple of times. I am not VIP or a developer owner, but I think that the hotel side of Wyndham is largely unrelated and the hotel deals come through Wyndham Rewards points you get for using a credit card or attending presentations. I don’t think there are just discounts on hotels with Wyndham ownership. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will chime in.


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## cowboy (Jan 11, 2021)

Don't buy Wyndham. Look at Marriott. Much nicer Resorts. None of Wyndham s on Hawaii have ocean front properties. Only two on Kauai have ocean front properties.


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## Eric B (Jan 11, 2021)

I'd phrase it instead as do your due diligence to see which, if any, TS ownerships on the spectrum of quality and flexibility of usage as compared to the overall costs and locations meet your needs.  Marriotts are generally nicer than Wyndhams; there are ones available that are even nicer at a higher cost, too, but there is no one size fits all solution for everyone.  In fact, there are an awful lot of people that do quite well with just renting instead of buying.


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## HitchHiker71 (Jan 11, 2021)

MaryBella7 said:


> You mention the hotels a couple of times. I am not VIP or a developer owner, but I think that the hotel side of Wyndham is largely unrelated and the hotel deals come through Wyndham Rewards points you get for using a credit card or attending presentations. I don’t think there are just discounts on hotels with Wyndham ownership. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will chime in.



We almost always use WR points for hotel travel, but supposedly you do get an ownership benefit for Wyndham hotels - it's listed on under Owner Exclusives on the owner website:


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## MaryBella7 (Jan 11, 2021)

HitchHiker71 said:


> We almost always use WR points for hotel travel, but supposedly you do get an ownership benefit for Wyndham hotels - it's listed on under Owner Exclusives on the owner website:
> 
> View attachment 30970


I think I get a better discount through AAA


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## Jan M. (Jan 11, 2021)

cowboy said:


> Don't buy Wyndham. Look at Marriott. Much nicer Resorts. None of Wyndham s on Hawaii have ocean front properties. Only two on Kauai have ocean front properties.



Shearwater on Kauai is oceanfront. The unit we stayed in at Kauai Beach Villas was oceanfront.


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## Eric B (Jan 11, 2021)

Jan M. said:


> Shearwater on Kauai is oceanfront. The unit we stayed in at Kauai Beach Villas was oceanfront.



Is the beach swimmable at Shearwater?  I had understood that the one at KBV isn't.


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## dgalati (Jan 11, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I'd phrase it instead as do your due diligence to see which, if any, TS ownerships on the spectrum of quality and flexibility of usage as compared to the overall costs and locations meet your needs.  In fact, there are an awful lot of people that do quite well with just renting instead of buying.


I would agree with this statement! As a current Wyndham owner I rent for less then the cost of paying maintenance fees. If you are flexible with your travel plans there are unlimited discounted reservations available from VIP owners passing along their discounts. See attached link. https://tugbbs.com/forums/forums/timeshare-rentals-offered.45/


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## Jan M. (Jan 12, 2021)

Eric B said:


> Is the beach swimmable at Shearwater?  I had understood that the one at KBV isn't.



There are only a few public beaches with lifeguards that you can swim at on the east and north sides of the island. of Kauai. I don't know if there are resorts that have a guarded beach. From what I saw about the number of drowning deaths on the island I wouldn't recommend swimming at any beach that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 12, 2021)

If you have money set aside for a purchase of something and want something really worth the money paid upfront for a resale purchase, consider Hilton over Wyndham.  Sometimes free or nearly free is not worth those prices.  

I would also think about Marriott or Sheraton resales.  I get some pretty good trades for my Marriott and Sheraton weeks through II.  Bought all through resale.  I am hoping one day Marriott will convert my weeks to points without charging me $60K+.


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## noni0617 (Jan 12, 2021)

I wouldn't lock myself into anything. The cost of owning a TS is not an investment and from my instance impossible to get out from under. With all the costs involved yearly you can rent a place from all those resorts cheaper.


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## Melder (Jan 12, 2021)

rickandcindy23 said:


> If you have money set aside for a purchase of something and want something really worth the money paid upfront for a resale purchase, consider Hilton over Wyndham.  Sometimes free or nearly free is not worth those prices.



I've considered Hilton.  The challenge I had was that I'm only interested in timeshare use in the US.  Hilton has 1/2 the properties Wyndham has and many of them are International.  When choosing, I focused on the number of US destination locations (not resorts).   Hilton has 19 US destinations vs. Wyndham's 65.

*mayamart*... Have you checked out the TIMESHARE POINT SYSTEM COMPARISON CHART?


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## dgalati (Jan 12, 2021)

noni0617 said:


> I wouldn't lock myself into anything. The cost of owning a TS is not an investment and from my instance impossible to get out from under. With all the costs involved yearly you can rent a place from all those resorts cheaper.


Yes my experience also. I can travel like a VIPP renting from a owner that passes along their discounts and upgrades without the burden of paying maintenance fees and being locked into one timeshare system.   A few on this board would disagree as some do feel it is a great investment. What works for me may not work for someone else just learn the system and make it work for your travel needs.


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## Braindead (Jan 12, 2021)

noni0617 said:


> I wouldn't lock myself into anything. The cost of owning a TS is not an investment and from my instance impossible to get out from under.





dgalati said:


> Yes my experience also.


Dgalati please tell us your experiences.
You’ve owned in or own in more than one timeshare company, so how do you have a similar experience of not locking yourself into MFs?
Please tell us your story about the “instances where it was impossible to get out from under a Wyndham TS” that you’ve experienced first hand? All you’ve ever said is how it’s so easy for you to dispose of Wyndham TS even on a yearly basis


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## DesireMore (Jan 12, 2021)

Just make an account on Tripbeat.com. Same Wyndham and RCI properties at discounted rates, and no need to lock yourself into ever increasing maintenance fees. I'd also rather rent rooms off extraholidays.com than ever buy a Wyndham timeshare.


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## dgalati (Jan 12, 2021)

DesireMore said:


> Just make an account on Tripbeat.com. Same Wyndham and RCI properties at discounted rates, and no need to lock yourself into ever increasing maintenance fees. I'd also rather rent rooms off extraholidays.com than ever buy a Wyndham timeshare.


Yes why lock yourself into one system when you can enjoy all systems and rent for less?


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## mayamart (Jan 16, 2021)

Melder said:


> I've considered Hilton.  The challenge I had was that I'm only interested in timeshare use in the US.  Hilton has 1/2 the properties Wyndham has and many of them are International.  When choosing, I focused on the number of US destination locations (not resorts).   Hilton has 19 US destinations vs. Wyndham's 65.
> 
> *mayamart*... Have you checked out the TIMESHARE POINT SYSTEM COMPARISON CHART?


Hi and yes, I have it bookmarked and refer to it


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## cbyrne1174 (Jan 17, 2021)

dgalati said:


> Yes why lock yourself into one system when you can enjoy all systems and rent for less?



It gives you independence mainly. Also, you are not entitled to somebody else's benefits. The VIP benefits don't really apply to my habits personally anyways. I mainly only book Club Wyndham when the remaining inventory is discounted to all owners or when I need to book 10-13 months out. I also like to exchange into Saratoga Springs via RCI for MUCH cheaper than renting that same unit from a DVC owner. The RCI exchange is about $1500 cheaper for the week vs renting from a DVC owner. I live an hour from WDW so I like being able to just take a week in the summer time to enjoy the 5 pool areas at Saratoga and be a short boat ride away from Disney Springs. You may be able to rent for less for your habits, but it doesn't apply to everyone.

I rented off a VIP Gold TUG member last November when I wanted to spend a few nights in Daytona in a room that was guaranteed to be Ocean Front. If I used my own account, it would of cost me more to have a guaranteed Ocean Front unit, but that was a special circumstance where the owner hadn't used all of their points or guest certs because of COVID. But I wouldn't expect that owner to have points to spare every year. Obviously they bought their points with the intensions of using them.

The people who bought VIP did so because it made sense to them and they had the means to do so. After seeing how many boomers don't have enough retirement funds saved up and are having trouble finding a job because of age discrimination, it makes sense to me at 31 years old to just dump everything I can into retirement accounts (to maximize appreciation) while I wait for the housing market to inevitably crash again so I can finally become a homeowner, then dump whatever is left over into that after 401k and IRA contributions are capped. Nowhere in my budget is a luxury expense like a VIP purchase. I didn't pay for the VIP benefits, and as a millennial who has gone through 2 major financial crises in the first 15 years of my adulthood I never will make such a luxury purchase unless I was set for life, so I shouldn't expect to have access to VIP benefits. I loved and appreciated the Ocean Front room I got to stay in for cheap, but it isn't something I expect to have under normal circumstances.


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## MaryBella7 (Jan 17, 2021)

dgalati said:


> Yes why lock yourself into one system when you can enjoy all systems and rent for less?


There are many reasons to own. If you don’t have flexibility to rent within 60 days to hopefully have a vip who will give you benefits or their discounts, you can book on your own and have a guaranteed trip at a really good price in a great room with a kitchen. You never have to worry that somehow something happened with the person you rented from that prevents you from having the room. After paying airfare, you are sure to have the place you rented because it is in your name and under your account. When you rent, you could find out two weeks before that the place is not there if you check. If you don’t check you could find out that the place isn’t there when you arrive at 8 pm which is really late your time after a cross country flight. Owning and booking your own points comes with a confidence in your booking that renting can never give, and frankly that I will never depend on after experiences I have had.


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## chamel (Apr 2, 2021)

This is what I keep asking myself! We love Wyndham resorts, and have rented weeks in the past... Part of me wants to buy resale... But then I keep coming back to the fact that we've rented for less than what we'd pay in yearly MF. Is there anything I'm missing here? I'd really like to hear if there would be some perks to owning that I'm not seeing!



dgalati said:


> Yes why lock yourself into one system when you can enjoy all systems and rent for less?


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 2, 2021)

chamel said:


> This is what I keep asking myself! We love Wyndham resorts, and have rented weeks in the past... Part of me wants to buy resale... But then I keep coming back to the fact that we've rented for less than what we'd pay in yearly MF. Is there anything I'm missing here? I'd really like to hear if there would be some perks to owning that I'm not seeing!



I'm able to always either break even or make a profit every time I rent out so IDK where you're seeing that it's cheaper. I own at low MF resorts. Bonnet Creek costs me like $600/week in a 2 bedroom during the value season.


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## Mongoose (Apr 2, 2021)

chamel said:


> This is what I keep asking myself! We love Wyndham resorts, and have rented weeks in the past... Part of me wants to buy resale... But then I keep coming back to the fact that we've rented for less than what we'd pay in yearly MF. Is there anything I'm missing here? I'd really like to hear if there would be some perks to owning that I'm not seeing!


I've seen the same thing.  The value proposition is for attractive locations and peak times.    If you are looking to go to places like Orlando and Vegas, rent.  If you are going to locations like Hawaii, or resort destinations being part of a system and planning ahead has a lot of value.  I have Marriott, Hyatt, WM and HICV units all via resale.  I can split my week into days, sell some and stay for free for about a week.  This year I had 2 4 night stays in Sedona and sold 3 2 nights stays at other resorts.  Just about made my stay free.  As far as Wyndham, they seem to have much higher MF than they are worth, and they have zero resale value which should tell you something.


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## dgalati (Apr 2, 2021)

chamel said:


> This is what I keep asking myself! We love Wyndham resorts, and have rented weeks in the past... Part of me wants to buy resale... But then I keep coming back to the fact that we've rented for less than what we'd pay in yearly MF. Is there anything I'm missing here? I'd really like to hear if there would be some perks to owning that I'm not seeing!


You have to be flexible with your travel palns and travel in the 60 day discount window. Key is finding a VIP that passes along the 50% discount and free room upgrades. I have attached a good example of a deal for less then paying maintenance fees. Please make note this deal is at a flagship resort during prime season.








						Wyndham Bonnet Creek (inside Disney arch), 1 BR Deluxe (upgrade eligible), April 24- May 1.  CHEAP!
					

$495  PM me, please!




					tugbbs.com
				



Look at all the bargains in the last minute rentals link attached below.








						Last Minute Discounted Timeshare Rentals Offered
					

Rentals of actual resort time (not points) with start dates 45 days or less into the future and Maximum rental rate $800/week or $115/day. Rentals more than 45 days out should be placed in the regular TUG Timeshare Marketplace.




					tugbbs.com


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 2, 2021)

dgalati said:


> You have to be flexible with your travel palns and travel in the 60 day discount window. Key is finding a VIP that passes along the 50% discount and free room upgrades. I have attached a good example of a deal for less then paying maintenance fees. Please make note this deal is at a flagship resort during prime season.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The post Jim made for a 1 bedroom deluxe is 25% off at the moment for everyone and during the value season. So it would cost anyone (0.75)(84)(Cost per thousand), which is my case (resale only) is $411.39. So I guess it's only slightly more expensive than owning.


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## dgalati (Apr 2, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> The post Jim made for a 1 bedroom deluxe is 25% off at the moment for everyone and during the value season. So it would cost anyone (0.75)(84)(Cost per thousand), which is my case (resale only) is $411.39. So I guess it's only slightly more expensive than owning.


"Key is to find a VIP that passes along 50% discount" But It is eligible for a "free" upgrade and IMHO worth the few bucks more with the 25% discount to be able to book without being burdened with maintenance fees.  Add in the extra cost if you are out of HK's. Add on a GC if Vip owner has no free ones left and its less then paying maintenance fees. This example also proves your point how watered down VIP benefits have become.


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 2, 2021)

dgalati said:


> It is eligible for a "free" upgrade and IMHO worth the few bucks more with the 25% discount to be able to book without being burdened with maintenance fees.  Add in the extra cost if you are out of HK's. Add on a GC if Vip owner has no free ones left and its less then paying maintenance fees. This example also proves your point how watered down VIP benefits have become.



Yea, but making your own bookings is safer. Also, it's really easy to get rid of your contracts if you have low MF or rent out to break even. Other than during Covid, I've always made a $500-$1000 every year renting out some of my points.


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## chamel (Apr 2, 2021)

I'm learning so much, and so much to learn! The unit we rented, 4 BR pres at Palm Aire, must have been something picked up by an owner in that 60 day window. That's probably about how far out we booked. So...are the discounts 60 days out available to all owners (if I buy resale will I have access to that?) Or only VIP?



cbyrne1174 said:


> Yea, but making your own bookings is safer. Also, it's really easy to get rid of your contracts if you have low MF or rent out to break even. Other than during Covid, I've always made a $500-$1000 every year renting out some of my points.


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 2, 2021)

chamel said:


> I'm learning so much, and so much to learn! The unit we rented, 4 BR pres at Palm Aire, must have been something picked up by an owner in that 60 day window. That's probably about how far out we booked. So...are the discounts 60 days out available to all owners (if I buy resale will I have access to that?) Or only VIP?



Discounts are random. You have to own to see them. I can usually book FL 25-35% off during less busy times of the year. Not the 4 bedroom pres though. Presidentials are never discounted. You can always own just enough points to cover the minimum program fee and rent off other people as well. I've rented off VIP owners when I saw that it was in my favor to do so. You can search inventory with your own account and message VIPs that you know of to see if they are willing to do the rental.


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## Pathways (Apr 3, 2021)

chamel said:


> are the discounts 60 days out available to all owners (if I buy resale will I have access to that?) Or only VIP?


The discount to which you are referring is VIP only. Different levels of VIP have varying discount windows.


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 3, 2021)

Pathways said:


> The discount to which you are referring is VIP only. Different levels of VIP have varying discount windows.



Resale owners get discounts now too. It's not guaranteed and it can't be upgraded. Usually we can see them about 30-45 days out. The VIPs get their first pick at 60 days, but Wyndham is ultimately trying to just get rid of remaining inventory. Palm-Aire is 35% off at the moment.


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## chamel (Apr 3, 2021)

Thank you! So is the non-VIP discount the same in those last minute deals? Also what is Wyndham's cancellation policy on a reservation (whether last-minute deal or not)?



cbyrne1174 said:


> Resale owners get discounts now too. It's not guaranteed and it can't be upgraded. Usually we can see them about 30-45 days out. The VIPs get their first pick at 60 days, but Wyndham is ultimately trying to just get rid of remaining inventory. Palm-Aire is 35% off at the moment.


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## tschwa2 (Apr 3, 2021)

chamel said:


> Thank you! So is the non-VIP discount the same in those last minute deals? Also what is Wyndham's cancellation policy on a reservation (whether last-minute deal or not)?


With Wyndham you can cancel up to 15 days prior or within 24 hrs if you are already within 14 days at time of booking.  When cancelling you would get your points and Hk credits (i think fee as well if you paid)  back but not your transaction credit/fee or guest cert credit/fee if you already added that.


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 3, 2021)

chamel said:


> Thank you! So is the non-VIP discount the same in those last minute deals? Also what is Wyndham's cancellation policy on a reservation (whether last-minute deal or not)?



I usually will save a decent amount on most stays. If you want to start getting into vacation club ownership, you should just pick up any one of the deeds resale I posted in the picture below. I sorted 2021 maintenance fees from lowest to highest in the spreadsheet on the main page. Those are where the maintenance fees are low. Average maintenance is $6.61. Having at least 258,000 points is the perfect starter amount. It lets you have about 2-3 weeks worth of vacations if you budget your points really well and anything extra you need you can add later down the road or just rent off a VIP if it actually does end up being cheaper. At least with this amount of points, you can see all of the inventory and aren't overpaying on the program fee. The minimum program fee is $165 and costs $0.64 cents per thousand points, so owning anything less than 258,000 points will increase the cost per thousand points. You won't have access to every room by just renting. Some units rent out for double what they cost in maintenance fees and have to be booked between 13-10 months out. I'm probably the most frugal person on here. I literally wont even buy groceries at Walmart because their prices are too expensive for what you get. I have my own ownership because I get value in it. I own at Towers on the Grove and Grand Desert, solely because the deeds were cheap and have low maintenance fees.


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## chamel (Apr 3, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> I usually will save a decent amount on most stays. If you want to start getting into vacation club ownership, you should just pick up any one of the deeds resale I posted in the picture below. I sorted 2021 maintenance fees from lowest to highest in the spreadsheet on the main page. Those are where the maintenance fees are low. Average maintenance is $6.61. Having at least 258,000 points is the perfect starter amount. It lets you have about 2-3 weeks worth of vacations if you budget your points really well and anything extra you need you can add later down the road or just rent off a VIP if it actually does end up being cheaper. At least with this amount of points, you can see all of the inventory and aren't overpaying on the program fee. The minimum program fee is $165 and costs $0.64 cents per thousand points, so owning anything less than 258,000 points will increase the cost per thousand points. You won't have access to every room by just renting. Some units rent out for double what they cost in maintenance fees and have to be booked between 13-10 months out. I'm probably the most frugal person on here. I literally wont even buy groceries at Walmart because their prices are too expensive for what you get. I have my own ownership because I get value in it. I own at Towers on the Grove and Grand Desert, solely because the deeds were cheap and have low maintenance fees.
> 
> View attachment 34262


Thank you so much, that is so helpful! I know what you mean about groceries at WalMart.  I've learned to be frugal over the years with 6 kids. I don't intend to quit now! Will be keeping an eye on resales.


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## Mongoose (Apr 3, 2021)

chamel said:


> Thank you so much, that is so helpful! I know what you mean about groceries at WalMart.  I've learned to be frugal over the years with 6 kids. I don't intend to quit now! Will be keeping an eye on resales.


Just wondering what part of the country you live in and what part of the country you want to vacation in?


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## chamel (Apr 3, 2021)

Mongoose said:


> Just wondering what part of the country you live in and what part of the country you want to vacation in?



We live in IL. Right now, travel somewhat restricted by school schedules. In the past we've done Destin at spring break, though this year was ft lauderdale. We've done shorter trips to Wisconsin dells, gatlinburg, branson area. After retirement (in a few years) would like to do more beach time in the winter! Would also like to do some shorter stays, but that's a VIP perk, correct? Currently need 4 BR with our family size. In a few years, smaller unit would probably work...that's hard to know.


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 3, 2021)

chamel said:


> We live in IL. Right now, travel somewhat restricted by school schedules. In the past we've done Destin at spring break, though this year was ft lauderdale. We've done shorter trips to Wisconsin dells, gatlinburg, branson area. After retirement (in a few years) would like to do more beach time in the winter! Would also like to do some shorter stays, but that's a VIP perk, correct? Currently need 4 BR with our family size. In a few years, smaller unit would probably work...that's hard to know.



How old are all of your kids? 4 bedrooms are really rare. Usually you need own at the resort you're staying at to get one. 3 bedrooms usually have 2 kings, 2 doubles and a queen pullout. You can also bring your own blow up mattresses.


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## chamel (Apr 3, 2021)

cbyrne1174 said:


> How old are all of your kids? 4 bedrooms are really rare. Usually you need own at the resort you're staying at to get one. 3 bedrooms usually have 2 kings, 2 doubles and a queen pullout. You can also bring your own blow up mattresses.


We have teenagers down to elementary age. I really don't know how we ended up with that 4BR at the Palm Aire! It was great! Good to know that we might have trouble booking one ourselves. Thanks for the info!


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## cbyrne1174 (Apr 3, 2021)

chamel said:


> We have teenagers down to elementary age. I really don't know how we ended up with that 4BR at the Palm Aire! It was great! Good to know that we might have trouble booking one ourselves. Thanks for the info!



You shouldn't have issues getting 3 bedrooms though. I don't see a problem in fitting that many people in a 3 bedroom if some are still pretty young.


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## dgalati (Apr 5, 2021)

Eric B said:


> I'd phrase it instead as do your due diligence to see which, if any, TS ownerships on the spectrum of quality and flexibility of usage as compared to the overall costs and locations meet your needs.  Marriotts are generally nicer than Wyndhams; there are ones available that are even nicer at a higher cost, too, but there is no one size fits all solution for everyone.  In fact, there are an awful lot of people that do quite well with just renting instead of buying.


LOL! Did I read this post correctly that you are saying RENTING is better for most?  If I can add renting comes Without the sunk cost or burden of paying maintenance fees.


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