# [2013] Bitcoin May Be the Global Economy's Last Safe Haven



## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 30, 2013)

Bitcoin May Be the Global Economy's Last Safe Haven (from BusinessWeek.com)



> One of the oddest bits of news to emerge from the economic collapse of Cyprus is a corresponding rise in the value of Bitcoin, the Internet’s favorite, media-friendly, anarchist crypto-currency. In Spain, Google (GOOG) searches for “Bitcoin” and downloads of Bitcoin apps soared. The value of a Bitcoin went up to $78. Someone put out a press release promising a Bitcoin ATM in Cyprus. Far away, in Canada, a man said he’d sell his house for BTC5,362.
> 
> Bitcoin was created in 2009 by a pseudonymous hacker who calls him or herself Satoshi Nakamoto (and who might be several people). It’s a form of virtual cash used to buy goods and services online. Even by Web standards, it’s a strange and supergeeky phenomenon. This is what happens when software and networks meet the concept of currency, when you take peer-to-peer networks and advanced cryptography and ask, “How can I make a new economy?”
> 
> ...


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## JudyS (Mar 30, 2013)

I propose the world use Wyndham/RCI/Bluegreen Points as its safe-haven currency!

(just kidding)


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 30, 2013)

JudyS said:


> I propose the world use Wyndham/RCI/Bluegreen Points as its safe-haven currency!
> 
> (just kidding)



Many years ago - when I was a lad - many companies ran promotions in which you could get a prize or a refund or some such by sending in  one or two box tops.  Commercials about this were ubiquitous, especially for packaged foods.

Which was the genesis for a story line in Rocky and Bullwinkle in which Boris and Natasha are sinking the world economy by producing counterfeit boxtops.

They also did a Fractured Fairy Tales episode on King Midas, which ended with gold being so common that it didn't have value any more.  So the people switched from a gold standard to a turnip standard.


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## ScoopKona (Mar 30, 2013)

All currency is basically an article of faith. When you think about it, what is the dollar worth, really? 

Nothing. That's what. It is worth something because we believe it is worth something. If our faith falters (2007-2012), then the dollar is worth less. When we as a society believe it's worth more, than it is. Presto!

It's all a game. Play to win.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 30, 2013)

ScoopLV said:


> All currency is basically an article of faith. When you think about it, what is the dollar worth, really?
> 
> Nothing. That's what. It is worth something because we believe it is worth something. If our faith falters (2007-2012), then the dollar is worth less. When we as a society believe it's worth more, than it is. Presto!
> 
> It's all a game. Play to win.



Not since the dollar stopped being a silver certificate.  There was a time, in my life, when one theoretically present your dollar bill to the US Treasury and exchange for an equivalent amount of silver.

But then, silver and gold only have value above and beyond their value as direct industrial commodities, because people believe they are worth more.


******


And that's kind of the beauty of something such as bitcoin.  What happens when there is a worldwide currency that people trust and are willing to use, and that currency can't be controlled and manipulated by governments and politicians?


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## presley (Mar 30, 2013)

My son was all over my case to set up a computer to mine bitcoins last year.  If only I listened back then.....


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## Passepartout (Mar 30, 2013)

All currency, hard or paper only has the value that is placed in it. Or as Steve has said, the industrial value of the material. 

Anyone for wampum? You could at least wear a string or two of wampum beads as adornment. Mr. T would be right in style!

Sure would beat tulip bulbs.


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## VegasBella (Mar 30, 2013)

There's a bagel shop near me that takes bitcoin. They also take US dollars of course, but I like the sound of it: "bagels for Bitcoin"


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## ampaholic (Mar 30, 2013)

Before you buy bitcoin from the developer - consider this, you can't buy from the developer, you can only buy from those with bitcoins to sell.

To do this you need to deal with an exchange - opening youself up to scams by the exchange owner/creator.

See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119334.0

If you read the entire thread you can see how trust is the real commodity in play.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Mar 30, 2013)

ampaholic said:


> If you read the entire thread you can see how trust is the real commodity in play.



Isn't trust the fundamental commodity in play in any currency?


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## Tia (Mar 30, 2013)

Interesting


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## ScoopKona (Mar 30, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Isn't trust the fundamental commodity in play in any currency?



That's it.

The reason we trust in currency is because bartering turned out to be such a pain in the caboose. But currency itself is worthless, only the trust has value.

If civilization fails, the only things that will have real value are shelter, food, water and defense. Pessimists stock up on such things.


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## ampaholic (Mar 30, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Isn't trust the fundamental commodity in play in any currency?



I was pretty sure I wasn't saying anything fundamental or profound - so you can let that rest. 

These exchanges can come and go or even "fly by night" - it makes the fact that the bitcoin itself is rather solid moot if the exchanges are rickety - was my point.


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## ampaholic (Mar 30, 2013)

VegasBella said:


> There's a bagel shop near me that takes bitcoin. They also take US dollars of course, but I like the sound of it: "bagels for Bitcoin"



Can't wait till the street corner beggar's sign reads: "Brother can you spare a Bitcoin"


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 11, 2013)

What is Bitcoin? Super Mario Bros. explains it all in a one-minute video - by David Holmes/ PandoDaily.com

PandoDaily made a video explaining how Bitcoin works through classic Super Mario Bros clips


Richard


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## "Roger" (Apr 12, 2013)

Safe haven?  

Bit coin has gone from $20 to $266 and then back down to $100 (the last move in one day). The major trade center for bitcoin has temporarily shut down.  See this article.

I suppose if you hit it right, you can make a lot of money trading in and out of bitcoin, but to me it smacks too much of tulipmania.  Maybe in the long run things will settle, for now, I would not label it as a "safe haven" (see original post).


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 13, 2013)

Bitcoin is No Longer a Currency - by Matthew O'Brien/ The Atlantic.com







Richard


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## "Roger" (Apr 14, 2013)

More bad news for bitcoins. 

A cyber attack on the main distributor, phishing expeditions, and cybertheft.  BBC Story


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 17, 2013)

Iterations: How Five Real Economists Think About Bitcoins Future - by Semil Shah/ Opinion/ TechCrunch.com







Richard


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## easyrider (Apr 18, 2013)

Bitcoin is a ponzi. Don't buy it. The value of something created out of an ideology at 1 cent per coin and now worth $270 a coin after 3.5 years is bound to collapse, catching all the suckers holding a bag of worthless bitcoin, imo.


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 18, 2013)

Bitcoin Exchange Bitfloor Shuts Its Doors, Promises to Return Everyone's Money - by Jeff Blagdon/ The Verge.com

Bitcoin exchange BitFloor is closing its doors, halting trading and announcing that it will return everyone’s funds. In an announcement on its main site, the company’s founder, Roman Shtylman, says that "due to circumstances outside [BitFloor’s] control" it "must cease all trading operations indefinitely." 


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Apr 28, 2013)

Study: 45 Percent of Bitcoin Exchanges End Up Closing - by Ian Steadman,wired.co.uk/ Ministry of Innovation-Business of Technology/arstechnica.com

Good luck getting your money back!






 - Bryan Mills


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (May 5, 2013)

Paypal Considers Accepting BitCoin Payments - by Brian Sin/ SlashGear.com


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (May 19, 2013)

US Authorities Launch Their First Attack on BitCoin - by Adam L. Penenberg/ PandoDaily.com

"Yesterday the Department of Homeland Security served the Dwolla mobile payment service with a court order requiring it to immediately cease all account activities with the Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange. Today it appears that Mt. Gox, based in Japan, has been cut off from Internet. If you try to get to http://mtgox.com you get a “502 Bad Gateway” message or a blank screen..."






Richard


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## artringwald (May 19, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Many years ago - when I was a lad - many companies ran promotions in which you could get a prize or a refund or some such by sending in  one or two box tops.  Commercials about this were ubiquitous, especially for packaged foods.
> 
> Which was the genesis for a story line in Rocky and Bullwinkle in which Boris and Natasha are sinking the world economy by producing counterfeit boxtops.
> 
> They also did a Fractured Fairy Tales episode on King Midas, which ended with gold being so common that it didn't have value any more.  So the people switched from a gold standard to a turnip standard.



You must not be the only one who remembered that episode. Some game designers put it into a pinball game: http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=281455


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## MULTIZ321 (May 21, 2013)

The Winklevoss Twins Are BitCoin Bulls - by Stacy Cowley/ CNNMoney/money.cnn.com

"The Winklevoss brothers' legal battle with Facebook (FB) over the social network's messy creation made them rich. They eventually walked away with stock worth around $150 million at today's share price. (They haven't disclosed how much of the stock they're still holding.)

A few months ago, word spread that the twins, Cameron and Tyler, had set up their own investment firm and decided to focus on a curious market niche: bitcoins. "






 The Winklevoss brothers gave a keynote talk at Bitcoin 2013, a conference that brought together enthusiasts of the virtual currency. 






Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 2, 2013)

World's First Bitcoin ATM to Launch This Week - By Radhika Sanghani/ Finance/ The Telegraph.co.uk

 The world's first bitcoin ATM will go live in Vancouver, Canada on Tuesday (Oct 28).

Built by company Robocoin, the ATM will trade the digital currency for cash and vice versa. 

Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 11, 2013)

Brooklyn Bitcoin Bodega Owner Told Us Why All Merchants Should Start Accepting Bitcoin - by Rob Wile/ Finance/ BusinessInsider.com

"The latest deal at Brooklyn's Greene Avenue Market is an unusual one: 10% off if you pay with Bitcoin..."


Richard


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Nov 11, 2013)

artringwald said:


> You must not be the only one who remembered that episode. Some game designers put it into a pinball game: http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=281455


I remember it well because even though I was a preteen I realized that Rocky and Bullwinkle was actually written on many levels.  And it was one of the first times I realized that I could catch irony at a level that generally sailed over my parents' heads.

****

And of course there is a Wikipedia article on the episode:  Box Top Robbery 



> The basis of the world economy is not gold, silver, or even uranium but, rather, cereal boxtops. Fiduciary Blurt, the head of the World Economic Council, has informed members that someone is flooding the market with counterfeit box tops, threatening to devastate the world economy. Suspicion quickly falls on Bullwinkle, who has amassed tens of thousands of box tops. However, Bullwinkle has come by his fortune legitimately, and once his name has been cleared he is asked to appear before the Council as an expert on box tops. Blurt also summons his chief security officers, Hemlock Soames and Dr. Watkins, who are actually Boris and Natasha in disguise. As they are in fact the box top counterfeiters they realize that the jig is up and set about bundling off their stash of counterfeits, just as Rocky and Bullwinkle discover their hiding place. The heroes survive being launched into the air in an elevator car and fired upon by the Coast Guard. Boris and Natasha's printing press is accidentally destroyed by Rocky and Bullwinkle, who are given a parade and awarded medals before heading off into the sunset.


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## CarolF (Nov 12, 2013)

This theft made the news a few days ago -

Australian bitcoin user TradeFortress says site hacked, $1 million in virtual currency stolen

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-08/bitcoin-site-hacked-founder-says/5078148


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## easyrider (Nov 12, 2013)

And there they go.......... going ... going ... gone ?

Another 4 million of so disappear in China.

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-exchange-gbl-holding-41-billion-vanishes-2013-11


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 18, 2013)

Regulators See Value in Bitcoin, and Investors Hasten to Agree - by Nathaniel Popper/ Legal-Regulatory/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com

The virtual currency bitcoin took a big step toward the mainstream on Monday as federal authorities signaled their willingness to accept it as a legitimate payment alternative.


Richard


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## Ken555 (Nov 18, 2013)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Regulators See Value in Bitcoin, and Investors Hasten to Agree - by Nathaniel Popper/ Legal-Regulatory/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com
> 
> The virtual currency bitcoin took a big step toward the mainstream on Monday as federal authorities signaled their willingness to accept it as a legitimate payment alternative.
> 
> ...



And the price went from ~$425 two days ago to ~$700 today. 


Sent from my iPad


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 23, 2013)

Bitcoin is the Segway of Currency - by Matthew O'Brien/ Business/ The Atlantic.com

"Silicon Valley thinks it's the future, but Bitcoin is more ridiculous than motorized scooters for adults. "





Can we get these half off if we pay with bitcoins? (Reuters)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 23, 2013)

Oh Good, You Can Now Use Your Fake Money to Fly in a Space Plane - by Brian Barrett/ Gizmodo.com

"Congratulations to all aspiring crypto-currency cosmonauts out there; you'll soon be able to use Bitcoin, everyone's favorite pseudomonetary bubble, to book flights on Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic space boats..."


Richard


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## rickandcindy23 (Nov 23, 2013)

My brother-in-law wrote the lyrics and music of the following song when money no longer had the backing of silver and gold (how does one say that?): 

"Paper Money" by Ronnie Montrose (may he rest in peace)

I play the game of a rich boy, 
I buy everything I can. 
My bankroll is a foot thick, 
I'm a wealthy man. 
A million dollar reserve note is right there in my hand 
And I can't stand to think...it's all that I've got. 
Take away all my silver 
Take away all my gold 
And hand me a stack of paper 
Paper money don't hold. Paper money don't hold. 
Well, you act as though you don't remember 
The way it all used to be. 
Now one man, he locks up the money 
Another man holds the key. 
My car cost me fifteen grand, 
Some say I got a deal. 
Melt it down, I've got a thousand pounds of junk 
And ten dollars worth of steel.


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 24, 2013)

Why Isn't Bitcoin Interesting to Leading Economists? - by Eric Madsen, economics PhD Student at Stanford Graduate School of Business on Quora/ Forbes.com

"I’ve fielded variants of this question from non-economists many times. I always respond with the same question: What does Bitcoin have to teach us about the economy?..."


Richard


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## Tia (Nov 24, 2013)

I am easily confused as this is a warning and then 



easyrider said:


> And there they go.......... going ... going ... gone ?
> 
> Another 4 million of so disappear in China.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-exchange-gbl-holding-41-billion-vanishes-2013-11





this -




MULTIZ321 said:


> Regulators See Value in Bitcoin, and Investors Hasten to Agree - by Nathaniel Popper/ Legal-Regulatory/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com
> 
> The virtual currency bitcoin took a big step toward the mainstream on Monday as federal authorities signaled their willingness to accept it as a legitimate payment alternative.
> 
> ...


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 24, 2013)

Bitcoins: Widely Known and Widely Misunderstood - by Michael Hiltzik/ Business/ Los Angeles Times.com

"Some people think of bitcoins as investment vehicles. Others see them as weapons against nefarious central banks. Both impressions are certainly wrong..."





Bitcoin values are set not by a government authority but partially through a complicated mathematical algorithm and partially by what people think they should be worth at any moment. (George Frey, Getty Images / November 22, 2013)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 25, 2013)

Render Unto Caesar, But Who Backs the Bitcoin? - by Andrew Ross Sorkin/ Dealbook/ The New York Times.com

"How can bitcoin be anything but a passing fad?

It seems you can’t open a newspaper or read a website these days without hearing about the super-yet-mysterious virtual currency known as bitcoin..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Nov 25, 2013)

In Bitcoin's Orbit: Rival Virtual Currencies Vie for Acceptance - by Nathaniel Popper/ Dealbook/ The New York Times.com

"For many people, bitcoin seems like something from the day after tomorrow.

For Lawrence Blankenship, it’s already a thing of the past.

A software engineer from Springfield, Mo., Mr. Blankenship is putting his money on PeerCoin, one of the biggest of the virtual currencies that are being promoted as alternatives to bitcoin..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Dec 8, 2013)

In the Murky World of Bitcoin, Fraud is Quicker Than the Law - by Nathaniel Popper/ Legal/Regulatory/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com

"The call went out on Twitter: “For insane profits come and join the pump.”

It was an invitation to a penny stock-style pump-and-dump scheme — only this one involved Bitcoin, the soaring, slightly scary virtual currency that has beckoned and bewildered people around the world.

While such bid ’em up, sell ’em off scams are shut down in the financial markets all the time, this one and other frauds involving digital money have gone unchecked. The reason, in no small part: Government authorities do not agree on which laws apply to Bitcoin — or even on what Bitcoin is.

The person behind the recent scheme, a trader known on Twitter as Fontas, said in a secure Internet chat that he operated with little fear of a crackdown..."


Richard


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## x3 skier (Dec 8, 2013)

I think I read somewhere Bernie Madoff is running a Bitcoin exchange out of his cell. :whoopie:

Cheers


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## jebloomquist (Dec 8, 2013)

I had a birthday party in late August. One of my sons gave me a bitcoin. I knew what it was, but had no idea how to cash it in. Its value was $124 then. I guess that I should be glad that I still don't know just how to cash it in. my son said that he had purchased about 15 when they were quite cheap. Good for him.

Jim


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## MULTIZ321 (Dec 11, 2013)

For Bitcoin, Square Peg Meets a Round Hole Under the Law - by Peter J. Henning/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com

"The advent of a new medium to conduct business inevitably means avenues for criminals to swoop in to take advantage. The development of Bitcoin, the virtual currency that is not issued by any government, presents challenges for the authorities to use laws that were not designed for the digital world to combat illegal conduct..."


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Dec 22, 2013)

Into the Bitcoin Mines - by Nathaniel Popper/ Business Day/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com

"On the flat lava plain of Reykjanesbaer, Iceland, near the Arctic Circle, you can find the mines of Bitcoin.

To get there, you pass through a fortified gate and enter a featureless yellow building. After checking in with a guard behind bulletproof glass, you face four more security checkpoints, including a so-called man trap that allows passage only after the door behind you has shut. This brings you to the center of the operation, a fluorescent-lit room with more than 100 whirring silver computers, each in a locked cabinet and each cooled by blasts of Arctic air shot up from vents in the floor.

These computers are the laborers of the virtual mines where Bitcoins are unearthed. Instead of swinging pickaxes, these custom-built machines, which are running an open-source Bitcoin program, perform complex algorithms 24 hours a day. If they come up with the right answers before competitors around the world do, they win a block of 25 new Bitcoins from the virtual currency’s decentralized network..."


Richard


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## presley (Dec 22, 2013)

jebloomquist said:


> I had a birthday party in late August. One of my sons gave me a bitcoin. I knew what it was, but had no idea how to cash it in. Its value was $124 then. I guess that I should be glad that I still don't know just how to cash it in. my son said that he had purchased about 15 when they were quite cheap. Good for him.



My son tried mining coins when they first came out.  He had about 10 cents worth of bitcoin.  When Bitcoin hit it's high recently, the 10 cent coin was worth about $700.

He tried to set up my machine to mine (back in the day) and it overheated and shut down.   I told him that Bitcoins would never take off and to just leave it alone.    He is always doing the math, trying to figure out if we could earn by mining, but it never pans out.  Congrats to all the geeks who started mining in the beginning.


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Dec 22, 2013)

Cryptolocker Ransomware Being Described As ‘The Perfect Crime’ 

Made possible by bitcoin.



> In the past 90 days, thousands of people worldwide have opened a seemingly innocuous link to track a holiday package. Suddenly, all the files on their computer are encrypted. …
> 
> As the ransomware takes over your computer, a countdown clock appears and shows victims how long they have to pay up. That means purchasing a key, or software, to reverse the process. And victims must do that using the online virtual currency known as bitcoins.
> 
> “Once you have purchased a bitcoin, then the transaction that you use that bitcoin in is encrypted, and therefore you cannot trace it,” explained Goodchild.


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## Ironwood (Dec 22, 2013)

easyrider said:


> Bitcoin is a ponzi. Don't buy it.


  Would stay clear of Bitcoins....it will inevitably collapse, and latecomers will be left holding the bag....an empty bag.  The smart money has already cashed in!


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## Ken555 (Dec 23, 2013)

T_R_Oglodyte said:


> Cryptolocker Ransomware Being Described As ‘The Perfect Crime’
> 
> 
> 
> Made possible by bitcoin.




Yet if all those people had a backup of their data they would not have any need to pay to decrypt their data.


Sent from my iPad


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## kailahopkins (Dec 24, 2013)

The new phase of currency is here and it's virtual. You have to trust first because this is all about risk. Unlike paper money, digital coins are unseen and can’t be manipulated by the Federal government.


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## MULTIZ321 (Dec 27, 2013)

Crazy Currency: The More I Report on Bitcoin, The Weirder It Gets - by Cyrus Farivar/ Finance/Media Innovation/ arstechnica.com

"Op-ed: Despite a year of reporting and Bitcoin's insane rise, I'm happy not to own any..."






 - 
Cornering the Bitcoin market may be easier than cornering orange juice futures.
Paramount Pictures / Aurich Lawson


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 1, 2014)

The Giant Bitcoin Crash in the Wake of China Restrictions? It Never Happened. - by Jason del Rey/ Commerce/ AllThingsD.com

Bitcoin value recovers in wake of China Bitcoin restictions.







Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 1, 2014)

Bitcoin ATM's Are Spreading Across the World - by Brian Patrick Eha/ Technology/ Entrepreneur.com

"Sometimes the future can sneak up on you. Like when you find out that a startup incorporated in the British Virgin Islands, whose employees live in New Hampshire and whose products are made in Portugal, is selling digital-currency ATMs to Saudi Arabia and Singapore.

These are only two of the countries that have purchased Bitcoin ATMs from manufacturer Lamassu, which announced Monday that it had sold 120 of the machines to customers all over the world..."






 - Image Credit: Reuters


Richard


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## x3 skier (Jan 1, 2014)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Bitcoin ATM's Are Spreading Across the World - by Brian Patrick Eha/ Technology/ Entrepreneur.com
> 
> "Sometimes the future can sneak up on you. Like when you find out that a startup incorporated in the British Virgin Islands, whose employees live in New Hampshire and whose products are made in Portugal, is selling digital-currency ATMs to Saudi Arabia and Singapore.
> 
> ...



Gee, a whole 120 ATM's in the whole world! Probably more penny crushing souvenir machines in Orlando. 

Cheers


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 2, 2014)

Why I Lost Faith in Bitcoin As A Money Transfer Protocol - by Romain Dillet/ TechCrunch.com

"As 2013 came to an end, many reflected on last year’s biggest tech news — and Bitcoin was a serious contender. But the main question remains: why are people interested in Bitcoin?..."

Read more to learn about Bitcoin's weakness as a money transfer protocol.







Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 5, 2014)

How to Trade Bitcoin (And If You Should) - by Andrew Tarantola/ Gizmodo.com

"There's a digital gold rush sweeping the globe as investors try to cash in on Bitcoin, the notoriously volatile cryptocurrency. Getting involved yourself is easier—and riskier—than you think.

As with any exchange or speculative market, trading in Bitcoin is a risky venture that could cost you real money—and lots of it. So the most important advice is to proceed with caution. If you're game, though, here's what you need to know to get started..."


Richard


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## Ken555 (Jan 5, 2014)

BTC increased this week, and is trading today over $900.


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## shoegal (Jan 5, 2014)

*Wow*

Interesting, I never heard of bit coin before! I will certainly look into this...


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## kailahopkins (Jan 9, 2014)

As long as Bitcoin will likely hold or increase in value, the saga will continue.


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 17, 2014)

Bitcoin Breaks Out, You Can Now Pay the IRS in Cryptocurrency - by Ben Kepes/ Contributor/ Forbes.com

...The idea of paying for ecommerce goods via crypto currency, however, isn’t really super novel – it’s an obvious use case. Online shopping, online alternative currency- it goes together like… peanut butter and jelly. 

But what if someone told you that they enabled the payment of tax debt via bitcoin? Now that’s pretty unique. 

The last bastion of hyper-cautious Government agencies meets the very bleeding edge of economics. Especially ironic given the fact that bitcoin is seen by many as primarily a vehicle for transacting in illegal or non-declared income generating activities. 

The idea of paying tax via bitcoin is sure to have a few people chuckling and more than a few horrified.

According to SnapCard founder Ioannis Giannaros, SnapCard will extend the program to allow bitcoin-fueled payment universally..."





The bitcoin logo (Photo credit: Wikipedia)


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 19, 2014)

Buckle Up: The FBI Now Has the Green Light to Sell Silk Road Bitcoins - by Michael Carney/ Pando.com

"When you know something bad is coming, it’s a bit easier to prepare yourself. But it makes that event’s arrival no less unpleasant. The bitcoin market is collectively going through this experience today, a day after the Manhattan US Attorney’s office announced that a judge had signed a forfeiture order for the first pile of bitcoins that the FBI seized from online black market Silk Road, or as the government calls it, “a global cyber business designed to broker criminal transactions.” That means the Bureau can now liquidate 29,655 bitcoins, which are worth $25.1 million at yesterday’s $847.67 average closing price..."







Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Jan 22, 2014)

Why Bitcoin Matters - by Marc Andreessen/ Another View/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com

Editor’s note: Marc Andreessen’s venture capital firm, Andreessen Horowitz, has invested just under $50 million in Bitcoin-related start-ups. The firm is actively searching for more Bitcoin-based investment opportunities. He does not personally own more than a de minimis amount of Bitcoin.



Richard


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## x3 skier (Jan 22, 2014)

Doesn't anybody recognize that anything on the Internet can be hacked? A "currency" that relies on a computer algorithm for its creation seems to me to be very vulnerable to "counterfeiting" by people skilled enough to break into Targets POS system. 

As soon as it is worth their while, they will do it and probably easier than printing fake $100 bills. 

Cheers


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## Ken555 (Jan 22, 2014)

x3 skier said:


> Doesn't anybody recognize that anything on the Internet can be hacked? A "currency" that relies on a computer algorithm for its creation seems to me to be very vulnerable to "counterfeiting" by people skilled enough to break into Targets POS system.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Have you read about this, or are you guessing that "anything on the Internet can be hacked"? From what I've read and seen, the method used to track bitcoin (and the 100ish similar other coins) and the Target incident (and implied vulnerability within the monster known as credit cards) are quite different. In fact, that's part of the point of bitcoin.


Sent from my iPad


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## BostonKingB (Jan 22, 2014)

You forgot the e in the original post

Bitcoin May Be the Global Economy's L*e*ast Safe Haven


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## x3 skier (Jan 22, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> Have you read about this, or are you guessing that "anything on the Internet can be hacked"? From what I've read and seen, the method used to track bitcoin (and the 100ish similar other coins) and the Target incident (and implied vulnerability within the monster known as credit cards) are quite different. In fact, that's part of the point of bitcoin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Given the relatively small amount of Bitcoin around compared to other ways to steal money on the Internet, I just feel that when it becomes profitable to steal Bitcoin, it will be done since it is computer based. Many have claimed their systems are secure and been proven glaringly wrong.

Cheers


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## bogey21 (Jan 22, 2014)

I have been loading up on 1 oz silver coins with the Canadian Maple Leaf being my coin of choice.  I figure that if all Hell breaks loose and paper currency hits the skids, that 1 oz of .9999 silver should keep me in food.

George


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## Ken555 (Jan 22, 2014)

x3 skier said:


> Given the relatively small amount of Bitcoin around compared to other ways to steal money on the Internet, I just feel that when it becomes profitable to steal Bitcoin, it will be done since it is computer based. Many have claimed their systems are secure and been proven glaringly wrong.
> 
> Cheers




Ok, I get it. You're cautiously pessimistic - and I agree it makes sense to be prudent. I think you'll find many things we put faith in are computer based these days. What I find interesting about bitcoin and other similar currencies is that anyone can see exactly how much anyone else has, but anonymously. If I gave you my "account" numbers, you'd be able to see what I have, etc. But since it requires multiple verifications by independent computers for each transaction, it appears quite difficult to hack. I'm not saying its impossible, but just difficult. It's a heck of a lot easier to steal a credit card number. That said, I'm not sure I would advise anyone keeping a lot of money in bitcoin right now, but using it as another means of currency will have its advantages.

I also would expect a continual negative reaction from traditional banking sources to bitcoin and others. After all, bitcoin permits easy and cheap transfer of money while traditional banks make profit from the same service. I had to wire money overseas today and it cost me $25 (normally $45) - which is absurd! We have let our banking system take advantage of us in more than one way, and bitcoin is a natural reaction to fill the void of low cost (anonymous) banking services. 

FWIW, I put together a small computer "miner" a few months ago and have been earning ~$15-20/day after electrical expenses. It's been fun, too. 


Sent from my iPad


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jan 24, 2014)

TigerDirect Now Acceping Bitcoin, Claims to Be First Major Electronics Retailer and Largest Company to Do So - by Emil Protalinski/ TheNextWeb.com

"TigerDirect today announced it has started accepting Bitcoin as a method of payment on over 200,000 products via both its desktop and mobile websites. The company claimed it is the first major US electronics retailer and the largest company to date to accept the digital currency.

Overstock.com recently started accepting Bitcoin, and while it’s unclear how big TigerDirect is in comparison, its parent company Systemax is certainly larger. In 2012, Overstock.com saw revenues of $1.1 billion while Systemax generated $3.54 billion..."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jan 25, 2014)

Bitcoin's Next Frontiers: ATM's, Congress - by Dan Zac, The Washington Post/ Syndicated in The News-Herald/news-herald.com

 "The small monolith sits at the back wall of a downtown coffee shop. Canadians are a demure people, not known to shriek or hop, but they approach the Bitcoin ATM with the spooked wonder of those apes in “2001: A Space Odyssey.” Though drab and utilitarian, the machine projects an aura of the future, or maybe of suspicion, depending on one’s comfort with technology. The Bitcoin ATM, the first of its kind, takes cash or credit and spits out bitcoin.

Bitcoin is — well, it’s a thing you read about and don’t fully understand.

It’s referred to as a “cryptocurrency,” or a peer-to-peer electronic payment system whose transactions are encrypted and governed by many users on a public ledger. It’s not regulated or accepted by the government, and yet 0.00553 of a bitcoin will get you a mocha here at Waves Coffee House on Howe Street. So Bitcoin is definitely a thing, but its utility hinges on an agreed-upon fantasy, or at least collective blind faith — which you might also say about traditional banknotes, right? Yes? ..."





Adam Soltys, co-founder of a bit coin co-operative in Vancouver, swaps Canadian currency for bitcoins using the new bitcoin ATM installed at the Waves coffee shop in the city's downtown on October 29, 2013. 


Richard


----------



## x3 skier (Jan 28, 2014)

*After Arrest, Bitcoin Activist Shrem Resigns from Bitcoin Foundation*

There are crooks everywhere. 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0111511974?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

Cheers


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 2, 2014)

A Guide to Bitcoin's Legality in Different Countries Around the World - by Adam Clark Estes/ Gizmodo.com

"Americans are spoiled—at least where Bitcoin's concerned, we are. While people are free to mine, spend, and speculate on Bitcoin freely here in the States, citizens of other countries aren't so lucky.

Kashmir Hill just published a very helpful guide to Bitcoin's legality around the world. It runs the gamut of no regulations whatsoever in South Korea to an intimidating maze of rules in China. And, believe it or not, Denmark hates the little cryptocurrency that could. We'll let it slide, though—they invented LEGO."

Bitcoin's Legality Around the World - by Kashmir Hill/ Forbes Staff. Forbes.com





Bitcoin around the world


Richard


----------



## x3 skier (Feb 11, 2014)

*Interesting*

Things that happen with a computer based system. 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304104504579374410182920576?KEYWORDS=Bitcoin

Cheers


----------



## Ken555 (Feb 11, 2014)

x3 skier said:


> Things that happen with a computer based system.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is like saying a bank had a computer problem. Keep it in perspective. It's not bitcoin itself that has this problem, from what I read, but rather one exchange (which has been plagued with issues for almost a year and is no surprise to anyone following bitcoin). 


Sent from my iPad


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## x3 skier (Feb 11, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> This is like saying a bank had a computer problem. Keep it in perspective. It's not bitcoin itself that has this problem, from what I read, but rather one exchange (which has been plagued with issues for almost a year and is no surprise to anyone following bitcoin).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



Banks are regulated by the OCC and insured by FDIC. If they have a "computer problem", you can still get your money. Apparently, if you had an account with Mt Gox, you are currently hosed. 

If you like Bitcoin, fine. I'll pass. 

Cheers


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 11, 2014)

Bitstamp Halts Withdrawals Amid Targeted Attack - by Russell Brandom/ Business/ The Verge.com

"The Bitcoin exchange Bitstamp has announced it is suspending withdrawals as a result of the same transaction malleability bug that triggered a freeze at the M. Gox exchange earlier this week.."


Richard


----------



## Ken555 (Feb 12, 2014)

x3 skier said:


> Banks are regulated by the OCC and insured by FDIC. If they have a "computer problem", you can still get your money. Apparently, if you had an account with Mt Gox, you are currently hosed.
> 
> If you like Bitcoin, fine. I'll pass.
> 
> Cheers



For those who have been following Bitcoin, it will be no surprise to discover flaws with the Mt Gox exchange. I don't know anyone who uses it. That said, I'm not sure if any of the other exchanges are going to last the trial of time, and if these currencies become established I'm fairly sure a more established company (ie. bank) will become more involved.

As for governmental regulation...well, anyone who obtains these coins knows that there is no regulation whatsoever. If that stops you from investigating further, I completely understand. But, that shouldn't stop others from speculative investments.

Full disclosure: I don't have any Bitcoins. I do have other coins, and so far I'm approaching this as a hobby that generates a bit of money. I find it interesting in itself, and even more interesting watching the reaction of others once they understand a little about a computer generated currency.


----------



## Ken555 (Feb 12, 2014)

Bitcoin Hit By 'Massive' DDoS Attack As Tensions Rise

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leoking/2014/02/12/bitcoin-hit-by-massive-ddos-attack-as-tensions-rise/



> A “massive” distributed denial of service (DDoS) attack is hitting Bitcoin, according to trading venues, in what has been a tense week over alleged flaws in the various systems run by the virtual currency and its exchanges.
> 
> The attack picks on the very area – transaction malleability, or the potential renaming of transaction messages –  that has become a bone of contention between different venues, and is blocking some transactions from being confirmed. The source of and reason for the attack have not been disclosed.





> “This is a denial-of-service attack; whoever is doing this is not stealing coins, but is succeeding in preventing some transactions from confirming,” he added. “It’s important to note that DoS attacks do not affect people’s bitcoin wallets or funds.”


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 15, 2014)

Drug Site Silk Road Wiped Out by Bitcoin Glitch - by Jose Pagliery/ Tech/ CNNMoney/cnn.com

"The revived online black market Silk Road says hackers took advantage of an ongoing Bitcoin glitch to steal $2.7 million from its customers..."


Bitcoin: It's the Platform, Not the Currency, Stupid! - By Sander Duivestein and Patrick Savalle/ TheNextWeb.com

"Bitcoin is big news again. The digital cryptocurrency is on the frontpage of every major newspaper. This week its price collapsed because the largest exchange on the network did not handle a known design flaw in bitcoin properly, which caused widespread disruption and possibly some loss of bitcoin. As a precaution, several exchanges had to close their virtual doors till further notice.

Economists have warned of the above scenario several times. No central authority backs this virtual currency. Investing in bitcoin is equivalent to pure speculation. It’s the new Tulip-mania. Money can therefore disappear like snow in the sun. In addition, the currency is discovered by the criminal world and it is used widely to money laundering. Bitcoin is purely “evil“, as Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist, recently proclaimed.

But there is more to the story than the economists tell..."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 15, 2014)

Bitstamp Restores Service After Targeted Attack - by Casey Newton/ US & World/ TheVerge.com

"Bitstamp restored service to its Bitcoin exchange this morning, four days after suspending withdrawals in the wake of an attack on its network that raised new concerns about the security of digital currency exchanges. "After rigorous testing, we have restored fully automated processing for Bitcoin withdrawals," the exchange said, according to the Wall Street Journal. Meanwhile, Mt. Gox said it has suspended deposits while it investigated a denial-of-service attack on Bitcoin's core infrastructure..."


Richard


----------



## x3 skier (Feb 16, 2014)

If Paul Krugman is against Bitcoin, it must be good. :hysterical:

Cheers


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 19, 2014)

Winklevoss Brothers Offer an Index to Track Price of Bitcoin - by Nathaniel Popper/ Financial Services/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com

"Stock traders have the Standard & Poor’s 500. Bitcoin bettors will have the Winkdex.

The new financial index takes its name from the Winklevoss brothers, famous for their legal battle with the Facebook founder, Mark Zuckerberg. The Winkdex was released publicly on Wednesday and provides a regularly updated figure for the price of Bitcoin, the virtual currency that has risen in popularity over the last year.

Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss announced the creation of the Winkdex in a regulatory filing they made on Wednesday to the Securities and Exchange Commission in connection with the Bitcoin exchange-traded fund they first applied to create last summer.

The new filing shows that the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust is moving closer to regulatory approval despite skepticism in some investor circles. The brothers are now hoping to start the fund later this year, making it the first Bitcoin E.T.F..."






Lucas Jackson/Reuters 
Cameron Winklevoss, left, and his brother, Tyler, are planning to start a Bitcoin exchange-traded fund.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 19, 2014)

First US Bitcoin Vending Machine Opens in an Albuquerque Cigar Bar - by Rich McCormick/ US & World/ The Verge.com

"The first publicly-accessible Bitcoin vending machine in the United States has arrived in an "upscale cigar bar" in Albuquerque. Users of the Bitcoin machine that opened today in the New Mexico city can insert money, scan the QR code for their Bitcoin wallet, and have their funds transferred from dollars to the unregulated currency in a few seconds..."

Richard


----------



## x3 skier (Feb 19, 2014)

MULTIZ321 said:


> First US Bitcoin Vending Machine Opens in an Albuquerque Cigar Bar - by Rich McCormick/ US & World/ The Verge.com
> 
> "The first publicly-accessible Bitcoin vending machine in the United States has arrived in an "upscale cigar bar" in Albuquerque. Users of the Bitcoin machine that opened today in the New Mexico city can insert money, scan the QR code for their Bitcoin wallet, and have their funds transferred from dollars to the unregulated currency in a few seconds..."
> 
> Richard



Sounds a lot like a slot machine. 

Cheers


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 21, 2014)

Bitcoin's Value Falls 10% As Faltering Mt. Gox Exchange Continues to Implode - by Alex Wilhelm/ TechCrunch.com

"Mt.Gox promised to get its house in order, and get back to the Bitcoin community and its users today. It did, but didn’t open up withdrawals, or set a firm timetable as to when users might be able to get their currency off the exchange.

In response, the price of Bitcoin on Mt.Gox has cratered, again. It now rests just above $110. That’s down from around $260 the day before. Users are betting more heavily now that their Bitcoin on the exchange is never coming back.

This turbulence has not left the larger Bitcoin market unmolested. According to the averaged Bitcoin price, the dollar cost of a Bitcoin has shed around 10% of its value today, falling from $625 to $560. Mt.Gox, previously trading at around a 50% deficit, is now trading at one fifth the regular price..."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 25, 2014)

Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World - by Nathaniel Popper and Rachel Abrams/ Business Day/ The New York Times.com

"The most prominent Bitcoin exchange appeared to be on the verge of collapse late Monday, raising questions about the future of a volatile marketplace.

On Monday night, a number of leading Bitcoin companies jointly announced that Mt. Gox, the largest exchange for most of Bitcoin’s existence, was planning to file for bankruptcy after months of technological problems and what appeared to have been a major theft. A document circulating widely in the Bitcoin world said the company had lost 744,000 Bitcoins in a theft that had gone unnoticed for years. That would be about 6 percent of the 12.4 million Bitcoins in circulation..."


Richard


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## Beaglemom3 (Feb 25, 2014)

Reuters:


http://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox-39-website-down-053727771--sector.html


----------



## bogey21 (Feb 25, 2014)

I admit I don't know anything about BitCoin except that it is out there and is somewhat volatile.  My way of hedging against paper currencies has been to load up on .999 1oz Silver Eagles and .9999 1 oz Maple Leafs.  Call me crazy but I see a lot less risk than BitCoin.

George


----------



## Dojan123 (Feb 25, 2014)

I may be ignorant but sounds like the Danish tulip bubble to me. However if you got in early you would have made a killing by now. 

I do get the concept but I would rather buy a metal or something I can hold. Having something mined by hand and not a GPU/CPU allows me to sleep better.  However, I will never make the money some will make. I also will not lose the money someone will lose in the future. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Saintsfanfl (Feb 25, 2014)

I can't see an unregulated currency ever succeeding long term. On top of this the US can instantly crush Bitcoin by taking a stance. They have already slightly leaned against it.


----------



## "Roger" (Feb 25, 2014)

Let me begin by saying, like most others, I wouldn't touch Bit Coins with a ten foot pole.  People who buy are a bit like people who throw money at the lottery, hoping that lightening will strike in a bottle and they will get something for nothing.  They could also easily get nothing for something.  I don't gamble. It is not how I want to earn my money.

(In fairness, not everyone is trying to strike it rich.  There are also Bit Coin buyers who like all things modernistic and are early adopters.  There are also those who hate anything to do with the government and like a non-government currency.  Then there are the drug dealers. Quite a mixed lot.)

That having been said, most of the recent news reports cite how Bit Coin has plunged from over a $1000 per coin to below $500 (almost in an instant).  What they don't mention is that it is not that long ago that Bit Coins were valued at around $30.  So, if someone had bought them, say a year and a half ago (that would not be me - see the opening paragraph), after this terrible recent crash in value (from over $1000 down to about $500), they would be weeping over the fact that after investing $30 per coin, all they are getting out of it is a mere $500 per coin (presuming that they did not have their coins in Mt. Gox and had them stolen). How awful!


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Feb 28, 2014)

(Almost) Everything You Want to Know About Bitcoin, in One Report - by Jason Del Rey/ Commerce/ Recode.net

"Twelve months from now, this report could end up in a trash heap of great tech ideas gone bust, thanks to the recent implosion of bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox. But for now, the “State of Bitcoin 2014” report, published yesterday by bitcoin trade publication CoinDesk, is a reminder that while Gox was a major player in the rise of bitcoin, the digital currency ecosystem does not depend on it..."








Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Mar 1, 2014)

Erosion of Faith Was Death Knell for Mt. Gox -  By Rachel Abrams, Matthew Goldstein, Hiroko Tabuchi/ Restructuring & Bankruptcy/ DealBook/ The New York Times.com

...On Friday, Mt. Gox filed for bankruptcy protection, five days after Mr. Karpeles resigned from the foundation and just days after its website suddenly went dark. The exchange said that most likely it had lost 750,000 of its customers’ Bitcoin holdings and more than 100,000 of its own coins, or more than $450 million worth..."






 - Yuya Shino/Reuters
 Mark Karpeles, second from left, attended a news conference after his company, Mt. Gox, filed for bankruptcy.


Richard


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## MULTIZ321 (Mar 1, 2014)

Inside Japan's Bitcoin Heist - by Jake Adelstein/ World News/ TheDailyBeast.com

A former Mt. Gox employee says incompetent management and faulty accounting—not virtual robbers—are the real culprits in the missing millions.





Photo by Yoshikazu Tsuno/AFP/Getty


Richard


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## Ken555 (Mar 1, 2014)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Inside Japan's Bitcoin Heist - by Jake Adelstein/ World News/ TheDailyBeast.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Best article yet on what happened. And, it details how the problem was not an inherent issue with bitcoin but rather the cavalier manner in which mt gox was operated. They had no auditing of their records, etc. I hope and suspect that this incident will force standards to be applied to virtual currency exchanges and the market will be better for it. 

Other comments in this article confirm what I have read for almost a year about mt gox, which is why I never put any coins with them. There was plenty of suspicion out there for those of us to find who wanted to experiment with virtual currencies to avoid mt gox, and I am still surprised that so many people trusted this company with their coins.

As for bitcoin itself, well:



> And it does seem true that Bitcoins are very hard to forge or duplicate. Unfortunately, if you know what you’re doing, they may be easy to steal. Or if you’re not careful, they may be very easy to lose. Security in the transactions is paramount




Sent from my iPad


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## Ken555 (Mar 3, 2014)

The Inside Story of Mt. Gox, Bitcoin’s $460 Million Disaster
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/bitcoin-exchange/


Sent from my iPad


----------



## "Roger" (Mar 4, 2014)

*Another BitCoin bank robbed*

_The Guardian_ has this report of another BitCoin bank having been robbed.


----------



## bogey21 (Mar 4, 2014)

Not Good!!

George


----------



## pgnewarkboy (Mar 5, 2014)

A fool and his bit coins are quickly parted.  Owning bit coins is the equivalent of having a sign around your neck that says Please Rob Me. PT Barnum famously said 'a sucker is born every minute'.


----------



## Ken555 (Mar 5, 2014)

pgnewarkboy said:


> A fool and his bit coins are quickly parted.  Owning bit coins is the equivalent of having a sign around your neck that says Please Rob Me. PT Barnum famously said 'a sucker is born every minute'.




I hate to write this, but you really don't know what you're saying.


Sent from my iPad


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## x3 skier (Mar 5, 2014)

*Sad news*

Bitcoin exchange firm CEO is an apparent suicide (plus other items).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-CEO-dead-home-suspected-suicide-age-28.html


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 5, 2014)

For Bitcoin, Secure Future Might Need Oversight - by Farhad Manjoo/ Technology/ The New York Times.com

... In the last few years the conventional financial system has lurched from one new fraud to another — from Bernie Madoff to MF Global to the hacking at Target — and yet nobody suggests abandoning dollars as a means of trade. Why aren’t we just as forgiving in our approach to Bitcoin?..."





Mark Karpeles, left, attended a news conference after his company, Mt. Gox, a Japan-based Bitcoin exchange, filed for bankruptcy. Credit Kimimasa Mayama/European Pressphoto Agency


Richard


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## pgnewarkboy (Mar 6, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> I hate to write this, but you really don't know what you're saying.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad



In light of the inevitable debacle?   OK-my language was a little strong.  Maybe there was a better way of putting it.

People who invested in Bitcoins did so ignoring or in spite of  the obvious risks of placing   money in an untested, unregulated, currency that might be easily and secretly manipulated by unknown players anywhere in the world. Money that might  be easily stolen   because it might be placed in the hands of untested and unknown people and organizations.  It has obvious allure for criminal  and other dark operations.  Some will say "any currency is subject to manipulation etc. etc."     Currency trading in real recognized, tested, currency is regulated all over the world and there are criminal law enforcement people all over the world ready to step in to find those who violate law, or regulation. Not so much for Bitcoin.

To quote from the article of mr. Manjoo, cited above:

"But the comparison between Citigroup’s loss and the fall of Mt. Gox highlights just how unusual and untamable digital currency can be. When scandal engulfs traditional financial institutions like Citigroup, there are investigations and calls for greater oversight — human oversight. Bitcoin, though, was born of mistrust of humans and their institutions. It rests on the belief that financial safety emerges from the integrity of the technology, a computer code that controls a payment system, rather than the trustworthiness of the humans who participate in it.

To save their nascent currency, Bitcoin’s backers may be forced to alter their philosophy and embrace the same messy humans — auditors, insurers and even regulators — that the currency’s most ardent supporters have long abhorred. This raises two difficult questions: Can human oversight integrate into Bitcoin’s free-for-all ethos quickly enough to render Bitcoin safe? And, can Bitcoin be made safer without tamping down on the very openness that proponents say makes Bitcoin such a cheap, efficient and innovative financial platform? At the moment, the answers are still very much up in the air.
"


----------



## Ken555 (Mar 6, 2014)

pgnewarkboy said:


> In light of the inevitable debacle?   OK-my language was a little strong.  Maybe there was a better way of putting it.




Yes. However,  your most recent post discusses the pitfalls of a new currency which is very different from your earlier post. Discussing the merits of the currency and whether or not one should own it given the obvious issues which anyone serious at acquiring these coins would know is very different than a blanket statement that owning these coins is tantamount to asking to be robbed. 


Sent from my iPad


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 6, 2014)

Bitcoin's Elusive Founder Reportedly Discovered Living in California - by Jamie Rigg/ Engadget.com

"There have been many theories bandied about as to the true identity of Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin. Nothing conclusive has married the name to an individual or group, but now Newsweek claims to have found the Nakamoto, a 64-year-old Japanese-American man of the same name residing in California..."

The Face Behind Bitcoin - by Leah McGrath Goodman/ newsweek.com

You Decide.





 The reclusive inventor of the troubled virtual currency has been hiding in plain sight Priest + Grace 

AP Exclusive: Man Denies He's Bitcoin Founder - by Ryan Nakashima/ The Big Story/ ap.org

''The man Newsweek claims is the founder of Bitcoin denied he had anything to do with the digital currency..."





Dorian S. Nakamoto listens during an interview with the Associated Press, Thursday, March 6, 2014 in Los Angeles. Nakamoto, the man that Newsweek claims is the founder of Bitcoin, denies he had anything to do with it and says he had never even heard of the digital currency until his son told him he had been contacted by a reporter three weeks ago. (AP Photo/Damian Dovarganes)


Richard


----------



## pgnewarkboy (Mar 7, 2014)

The founder of Bitcoin wants to remain anonymous.  Wow.  Bitcoin seems like a black hole in the ground.  The deeper you dig the less light there is.  Or a black hole in "outer space".  You don't know what is going on inside it but it sucks up everything that comes near it and makes it disappear.


----------



## Ken555 (Mar 7, 2014)

Scott does it again. Funny.

http://youtu.be/reo7WbibxaQ

http://youtu.be/FV_kP91hJ7g


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 8, 2014)

Ken555 said:


> Scott does it again. Funny.
> 
> http://youtu.be/reo7WbibxaQ
> 
> http://youtu.be/FV_kP91hJ7g




Thanks for the laugh Ken.



Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 8, 2014)

Here's Why Bitcoin Matters - by Jose Pagliery/ Tech/ Money/cnn.com

Bitcoin matters, ignore the media circus.






This may or may not be the creator of Bitcoin. But who cares? Bitcoin isn't going away.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 13, 2014)

Move Over, Small-Time Bitcoin Exchange Startups - Wall Street Has Arrived - by Cyrus Farivar/ Finance/ Business/ Innovation/ arstechnica.com

Gentlemen, start your trading bots. Things are about to get crazy.





antanacoins


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 14, 2014)

Bitcoin "Vault" Xapo Offers Solution to Theft and a Tiny Nest Egg Upon Signup - by Jeff John Roberts/ Virtual Currency/ Gigaom.com

People keep stealing bitcoins. A new wallet and vault service backed by some serious investors, offers security and insurance — and a tiny giveaway for signing up.





photo: Gigaom Illustration 

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 22, 2014)

Mt. Gox Finds $115 Million of 'Lost Bitcoin', But is Still Missing 650,000 BTC's - from TheNextWeb.com


"Mt. Gox, the fallen Bitcoin exchange, has chanced upon a significant discovery after it found 200,000 ‘lost’ Bitcoin (worth around $115 million on today’s rates) in an unused account, Endgaget reports.

The Tokyo-based company has misplaced around 850,000 Bitcoins, owned by both its customers and the company itself. The exchange is investigating the discovery, which gives some cause for optimism from those who had given up all hope of getting their stash back..."


Richard


----------



## Ken555 (Mar 23, 2014)

MULTIZ321 said:


> Mt. Gox Finds $115 Million of 'Lost Bitcoin', But is Still Missing 650,000 BTC's - from TheNextWeb.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What other business has ever "lost" $115,000,000? This has all the features of a movie sometime soon...

More importantly, it appears that the community has "fixed" the underlying problem which permitted some coins to be stolen. I haven't read much in the last few weeks about this but this is the expected outcome given the way the bitcoin process and development functions.


Sent from my iPad


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 23, 2014)

Bitcoin Software Gets Fix For Weakness That Helped Bring Down Mt.Gox - by Dan Goodin/ Risk Assessment & Security Hactivism/ artstechnica.com

Newly rebranded Bitcoin Core contains patch for "Transaction malleability" hole.





Denial-of-service attacks prompt withdrawal suspensions, touch off price declines.

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 24, 2014)

Sound Familiar? Bitcoin Exchange Vircurex Freezes Customer Accounts As It Battles Insolvency - From TheNextWeb.com

"The implosion of Mt. Gox has been widely heralded as a sign of a new era of Bitcoin companies, but there are still examples of the unpredictable and shady side of the cryptocurrency world, as developments at Vircurex demonstrate.

The Beijing-based virtual currency exchange is much smaller than Mt. Gox, but it is notable that it has stopped withdrawals of Bitcoin, Litecoin and other coins today, and it will freeze all existing user accounts from Monday after running into serious financial issues..."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 28, 2014)

A Better Way to Buy Bitcoin? - by Michael Del Castillo/ Currency - Stories and Analysis of Wall Street and the World of Business/ The New Yorker.com

"...By then, Bitcoin had begun attracting mainstream attention, and the Harveys began to see a business opportunity in the currency itself. (In October, 2011, Joshua Davis wrote about Bitcoin and its mysterious creator in the magazine.) In February, 2013, Zach unfurled a plastic tarp on the floor of his new guitar store in Manchester, New Hampshire. Using materials from Home Depot, he started to assemble and paint a wooden prototype for a machine that would sell bitcoins. Such machines are often called Bitcoin A.T.M.s, which is a misnomer: they don’t allow people to deposit bitcoins or withdraw them from their own accounts. Instead, you put a few dollars into the Harveys’ construction, watch as they are converted into bitcoin, and tell the machine where to deposit the resulting encrypted-currency funds. (Typically, the bitcoins are deposited into an online account called a “wallet,” where they can be used to make purchases.)

The Harveys unveiled their prototype, programmed by Josh, at the Liberty Forum, a conference for anarchists and libertarians just a short drive from their guitar store. By that time, bitcoins cost thirty dollars each—up significantly from the twenty-five cents they cost when the Harveys first began accepting them in their Tel Aviv store, several years earlier. After the conference, the brothers closed the guitar shop and set up a new company called Lamassu, named after the Mesopotamian sculptures of winged lions 
meant to protect the ancient civilization’s wealth and commerce..."

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 28, 2014)

This Week in Bitcoin: IRS Declares Bitcoin is Property, Price Falls Below $500 - by Biz Carson/ Gigaom.com

As the price continues to fall, bitcoin owners will now need to to monitor their capital gains and losses as the tax deadline looms closer.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 29, 2014)

For Bitcoin: Lessons in the History of Failed Currencies - by Mark McKay/ Investing/ Forbes.com

"If someone were to perfect a flying car, governments around the world would be faced with a conundrum. Over the centuries humans have developed a transport system complete with quaint country streets, bustling six-lane highways, electronic toll booths and police officers to monitor it all. So should the powers that be try to fit the flying car into the current model or create a whole new scheme that allows the new technology to flourish?

A comparable question of positioning is the biggest challenge facing Bitcoin and other digital currencies, says Ed Moy former director of the United States Mint. In an interview earlier this year Moy said, “Government moves very slow and cautiously. Digital technology moves very quickly, so eventually the conflict is going to be crypto-currencies moving faster than what governments are comfortable with.”..."




Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Apr 26, 2014)

Mt. Gox Crumbles Into Liquidation, Throws Bitcoin Legitimacy Into Question - by Barry Levine/ Business/ VentureBeat.com

"“I hate gold. But right now, I’d rather own gold than Bitcoins.”

This sentiment comes from investment firm Belpoint’s chief strategist David Nelson. In a call today with VentureBeat, Nelson discussed implications of the news that Mt. Gox, once the largest Bitcoin exchange on the planet, has been ordered by a Tokyo court to begin liquidation.

The directive from the district court and the appointment of attorney Nobuaki Kobayashi as the bankruptcy trustee was announced in a document posted today on the Mt. Gox site. Last week, the Wall Street Journal first reported that Mt. Gox had asked the court for permission to liquidate.

While Mt. Gox’s ignominious end might raise doubts about the viability of the digital currency, Nelson pointed out that “some big names” are still investing..."





Image Credit: Julia Zakharova/Shutterstock


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Apr 26, 2014)

Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto Thanks Bitcoin Community: 'I Want to Hug You' - by Andrea Chang/ Tech Now/ Business/ The Los Angeles Times/ latimes.com

"For a guy who said he was sick of all the media attention, Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto sure does seem to like his 15 minutes of fame.

On Tuesday, the Temple City man who last month found himself in the midst of a media frenzy after Newsweek called him the creator of bitcoin, appeared in a YouTube video to thank his supporters..."

Richard


----------



## siesta (Apr 26, 2014)

I just dont understand the rationale of bitcoin.  This whole idea of a "safehaven" is absurd. 

Bitcoin has only a few advantages IMO over "real" currency. That is the ability to buy things in anonymity over the internet, like if you were a junkie buying illegal drugs on the silk road website, or buying illegal firearms, again on silk road website, or paying for hookers on the backpage website.

The old way was to pay cash for a Amex gift card, use a web proxy and buy anonymously, but I guess the theory was theyd always be able to trace the location of your initial gift card purchase. Aparently not cloak and dagger enough.

Thankfully my vices accept cash and arent illegal.


----------



## bogey21 (Apr 26, 2014)

MULTIZ321 said:


> “I hate gold. But right now, I’d rather own gold than Bitcoins.”
> 
> This sentiment comes from investment firm Belpoint’s chief strategist David Nelson.



Many governments have been loading up on gold.  Worried about the dollar, I guess.  I won't say I am loading up but I have been slowly accumulating gold Eagles, silver Maple Leafs and silver Eagles.

George


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 15, 2014)

This Week in Bitcoin: Price Falls as Feds Announce Auction of Silk Road Seized Bitcoin - by Biz Carson/ Gogaom.com

Bitcoin price dips as low as $565 with news of the U.S. Marshals Service auctioning off the seized Silk Road bitcoins.




photo: Pond5/artist3d


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 15, 2014)

U.S. Will Auction Bitcoins Seized From Silk Road, Bidders Must Deposit $200,000 - by Jeff John Roberts/ Gogaom.com

Do you have spare millions lying around that you want to invest in something new? The U.S. government will be auctioning off blocks of 3000 bitcoins later this month.


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 2, 2014)

Winner of Bitcoin Auction, Tim Draper, Plans to Expand Currency's Use - by Sydney Ember/ Dealbook/ The New York Times.com

"When the government auctioned nearly 30,000 Bitcoins on Friday, many bidders were looking for a bargain, hoping to buy the virtual currency at a discount and flip it later for a short-term profit.

But the winner, the venture capitalist Tim Draper, is not seeking a quick hit. Instead, through a partnership with the Bitcoin exchange start-up Vaurum, Mr. Draper intends to make the coins available for use in emerging markets.

“With the help of Vaurum and this newly purchased Bitcoin, we expect to be able to create new services that can provide liquidity and confidence to markets that have been hamstrung by weak currencies,” Mr. Draper said in a statement through Vaurum. “We want to enable people to hold and trade Bitcoin to secure themselves against weakening currencies.”..."





Tim Draper is teaming up with Vaurum, which facilitates over-the-counter Bitcoin trading.Credit Brendan McDermid/Reuters


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Dec 30, 2014)

Bitcoin Bulls Made the Worst Predictions of 2014 - by Jacob Davidson/ Investing/ Money/ Time.com

"Predictions of bitcoin domination may have been a little too optimistic..."







Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jan 1, 2015)

Tokyo Police Figure Mt. Gox Bitcoin Heist was an Inside Job - by Richard Lawler/ Engadget.com

"It's been about ten months since the Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange turned out the lights, blaming hackers or a bug in the blockchain as reasons why 850,000 bitcoin it held had suddenly disappeared. Today the Japanese paper Yomiuri Shinbun (English) reports that Tokyo Police investigating the events have found evidence that only about one percent of the lost bitcoins disappeared due to hacking from outsiders. Citing sources inside the department, the report suggests that the rest of the 650,000 bitcoins still unaccounted for (200k popped up unexpectedly) were lost by "unauthorized operation" of the system..."





[Image credit: Photothek via Getty Images]


Richard


----------



## presley (Jan 2, 2015)

One of the new California laws passed for the new year is that Bitcoin is legal in California.  Not sure what that ends of meaning, because it certainly wasn't illegal before.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jan 4, 2015)

Bitcoin is Getting Smoked To Start the New Year - by Jay Yarow/ Tech/ BusinessInsider.com

"Bitcoin is under $300 for the first time since November of 2013. It's down ~16% to start 2015. 

After peaking at $1,147.25 in December of 2013, it's been one long, slow descent for Bitcoin.

It's not good for Bitcoin, which had tremendous hype when its price was exploding. But, it's not necessarily the worst thing in the world, either..."

Richard


----------



## Conan (Jan 10, 2015)

I may be eating these words later this year, but I made my first bitcoin purchase today.

The price was $278 plus 1% commission.
https://www.coinbase.com/


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jun 15, 2016)

Here's Why Bit coin Prices Are Skyrocketing
From Fortune\ Finance\ Bit coin

http://fortune.com/2016/06/13/bitcoin-price/


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Aug 13, 2016)

The Great New Era of Bitcoin Isn't Happening - by Kim Iskyan, Truewealth Publishing/ Business Insider/ Markets/ businessinsider.com

"The big new thing isn’t going to replace the boring old thing that’s been around forever. Ever. 

Market bubbles are often based on “new paradigm” thinking – like a new concept or technology that’s considered revolutionary and with unlimited profit potential. But as prices keep rising, and paper fortunes are made, the mania takes on a life of its own. Business realities are forgotten, and getting rich on soaring prices is all that matters. Before long, the mania subsides, and prices fall – often dramatically. 

The price surge of cryptocurrency bitcoin from US$215 last summer to a high of US$763 earlier this summer is an example of this kind of new paradigm thought. Bitcoin fans envision unlimited use of the digital currency, and unlimited profits for investors. They view it as the “gold of the digital era” – a safe haven for people to park their cash when the financial world is in turmoil..."





Andrew Burton/Getty Images


Richard


----------



## spackler (Mar 9, 2017)

Bitcoin now ~$1175 after hitting a high in the upper $1200's last week.

Kudos to those wise enough to see the value in cryptocurrency & have been buying these last few years.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 11, 2017)

Bitcoin Drops 15% After the SEC Rejects the Winklevoss ETF
By Fitz Tepper/ Finance/ Bitcoin/ SEC/ Coin/ TC/ techcrunch.com

"The SEC just issued their ruling on the Winkelevoss bitcoin ETF, and it wasn’t good news for enthusiasts of the digital currency. Regulators rejected the proposed application, mainly because of the lack of regulation currently surrounding bitcoin.

An approval would have meant that the public could invest in bitcoin simply by purchasing shares in the ETF, which would trade on a U.S-based stock exchange.

The assumption was that an approved ETF would open the floodgates to both Wall Street and regular investors who want a stake in the digital currency but didn’t feel comfortable purchasing it on their own. This influx of new investors would then drive up the price of bitcoin.

Instead, the price dropped about 22 percent, from about $1,295.00 to as low as $1,000 as soon as the news broke. It’s since stabilized to about $1,120.00, which is still a drop of about 14 percent...."








Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Mar 13, 2017)

Bitcoin is Making a Gigantic Comeback
By Jonathan Garber/ Markets/ Business Insider/ businessinsider.com

"Bitcoin is making a gigantic comeback.

The cryptocurrency had plunged by more than 16% shortly after US markets closed Friday, putting in a low of $978, following the US Securities and Exchange Commission's ruling to  reject the Winklevoss twins' exchange-traded fund. But now it's back to $1,231, up 26% from its lows and about $60 below its preannouncement levels. Bitcoin hit an all-time high of $1,327 on Friday morning. 

"Based on the record before it, the commission believes that the significant markets for bitcoin are unregulated," the SEC said in its statement rejecting the Winklevoss twins' ETF. "Therefore, as the exchange has not entered into, and would currently be unable to enter into, the type of surveillance-sharing agreement that has been in place with respect to all previously approved commodity-trust ETPs — agreements that help address concerns about the potential for fraudulent or manipulative acts and practices in this market — the commission does not find the proposed rule change to be consistent with the Exchange Act."

2017 has been a volatile year for bitcoin. It gained more than 20% in the first week of the year before crashing 35% on rumblings that China would begin cracking down on trading.

But the cryptocurrency has shrugged off news that China's biggest exchanges started charging a flat fee of 0.2% per transaction in addition to  blocking customer withdrawals. It rallied more than 30% over the past month in the face of that news, putting in a high of $1,237 on Friday, as traders speculated that the SEC would approve at least one of the three bitcoin ETFs.

The SEC will rule on SolidX Management's proposed bitcoin ETF on March 30 and Grayscale Investments' at a later date...."





Investing.com


Richard


----------



## jeysa (Mar 15, 2017)

spackler said:


> Bitcoin now ~$1175 after hitting a high in the upper $1200's last week.
> 
> Kudos to those wise enough to see the value in cryptocurrency & have been buying these last few years.


Very well formatted..almost exactly something, that i myself would say


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 2, 2017)

Bitcoin Beats Stocks, Bonds, and Gold, Again
By Panos Mourdoukoutas/ Contributor/ Forbes/ forbes.com

"Bitcoin has left stocks, bonds, and gold in the dust in the first half of 2017.

The Bitcoin Investment Trust Shares have soared 220.59%, while the S&P 500 and SPDR Gold shares rose in upper single digits; and all three investments outperformed the iShares 20+ Year Treasury Bond, which gained a modest 6.13 percent.

Stocks, Bonds, And Bitcoin In The First Half Of 2017

Fund YTD Performance
SPDR Gold Shares (GLD) +7.68%
Bitcoin Investment Trust Shares (GBTC) +220.59
SPDR S&P500 (SPY) +8.17
iShares 20+ Year Treasury Bond (TLT) +6.13
Source: Finance.yahoo.com 6/30/2017 ....."


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Jul 8, 2017)

People are Raising Hundreds of Millions Selling Digital Coins Online - It's Either the Future of Funding Or a 'Bubble'
By Oscar Williams-Grut/ Finance/ Business Insider/ businessinsider.com

"LONDON – Startups around the world are raising hundreds of millions of dollars by issuing new digital coins, a trend that has made people both excited and concerned.

Over half a billion dollars has been raised through so-called "Initial Coin Offerings" (ICOs) since the start of the year, according to Richard Kastelein, a partner at the Cryptoassets Design Group, a company that helps launch ICOs.

It's an incredible amount considering that ICOs were unheard of just five years ago...."





A man shows Sri Lankan coins. REUTERS/Dinuka Liyanawatte 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Aug 10, 2017)

Bitcoin Hits a Record High Near $3,500
By Jonathan Garber and Frank Chaparro/ Markets/ Business Insider/ businessinsider.com

"Bitcoin's foray into record territory continued Tuesday as the cryptocurrency reached nearly $3,500 a coin. Early buying propelled bitcoin to a high of $3,486 before sellers managed to push it back down to the unchanged line near $3,390.

The gain came ahead of a big change in bitcoin's network. 


On Tuesday, bitcoin's blockchain network will begin adopting new software called Segregated Witness, or SegWit.

"SegWit is a clever solution that essentially increases transaction capacity," according to Aaron Lasher, the chief marketing officer of Breadwallet, a bitcoin technology company.

The software was devised years ago as a solution to the cryptocurrency's scaling problem, which divided bitcoin power brokers for years and led to  a split on August 1..."





The opening of Hong Kong's first bitcoin retail store. Reuters/Bobby Yip 


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Sep 1, 2017)

If you Bought $100 Worth of Bitcoin One Year Ago, Here's How Much Richer You Would Be Today
By Lucinda Shen/ Investing/ Money/ Time/ time.com

"Bitcoin surged to a new high of $4,880 on Friday.

It must have been cause for cheer among investors who bought bitcoin a year ago.

Back then, the price of bitcoin was a more affordable $572 per token, according to CoinDesk — less than half the price of an ounce of gold. So, had an investor in theory decided to invest about $100 at that point, their stake would be worth about $850 today...."





Photographer: Tomohiro Ohsumi/Bloomberg via Getty Images Bloomberg—Bloomberg via Getty Images


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Dec 6, 2017)

Bitcoin Reaches $13,000 as Futures Move Closer to Reality
By Dave Liedtka/ Bloomberg/ bloomberg.com

"Bitcoin topped $13,000 for the first time, ...."


Richard


----------



## TUGBrian (Dec 6, 2017)

even over 14,000 tonight...


----------



## Passepartout (Dec 6, 2017)

OMG! I just read the first post in this thread. In 2013, Bitcoin was $78. Where is my wayback machine?


----------



## TUGBrian (Dec 6, 2017)

haha..its crazy for sure!

is another story about a guy who paid for a pizza delivery way back when with 10,000 bitcoin.  today it'd be worth nearly 150 million bucks.


----------



## am1 (Dec 6, 2017)

I will be very happy when it crashes.  Bitcoin offers no return on the investment just the gain. These gains are unrealistic.  Remember pigs get slaughtered.


----------



## TUGBrian (Dec 6, 2017)

Still hard to argue against the insane climb in such a short time...while pigs might get slaughtered...folks right now are making an absolute fortune!


----------



## VacationForever (Dec 6, 2017)

TUGBrian said:


> Still hard to argue against the insane climb in such a short time...while pigs might get slaughtered...folks right now are making an absolute fortune!


... then it is a matter of timing the market on when to get out.  You never know when it is going to collapse.


----------



## Passepartout (Dec 6, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> ... then it is a matter of timing the market on when to get out.  You never know when it is going to collapse.


Hell, I was wondering if it would collapse at about $100, then $1,000, etc, etc. Sheesh!


----------



## VacationForever (Dec 6, 2017)

Passepartout said:


> Hell, I was wondering if it would collapse at about $100, then $1,000, etc, etc. Sheesh!


Who knows?!  I do know that my wealth manager did not invest my money in Bitcoin otherwise I would be rich by now!


----------



## Passepartout (Dec 6, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Who knows?!  I do know that my wealth manager did not invest my money in Bitcoin otherwise I would be rich by now!


Uh-huh. My wealth manager is me, and going on vacation is right there with me in that coach seat- not riding up front or in the private jet with the risk takers.


----------



## md8287 (Dec 7, 2017)

I posted in a similar thread a month ago as I debated getting into bitcoin at $8,000. Today it is double that. Yes it will stop someplace...most likely...but when. Only wish I put in more two weeks ago when I finally bought in but I’ve added a little every few day, including today ($1,000 ago). Now pushing $17k. Just a little more and I’ll make up for timeshare loss.


----------



## WinniWoman (Dec 7, 2017)

md8287 said:


> I posted in a similar thread a month ago as I debated getting into bitcoin at $8,000. Today it is double that. Yes it will stop someplace...most likely...but when. Only wish I put in more two weeks ago when I finally bought in but I’ve added a little every few day, including today ($1,000 ago). Now pushing $17k. Just a little more and I’ll make up for timeshare loss.




And I waited and didn't buy any. Now I am not sure if I still should.........


----------



## WinniWoman (Dec 7, 2017)

I heard that it is going to the Futures market this weekend. A whole 'nother thing now! Could be a bubble also. Who knows? 

Meanwhile, now there is this thing called Lite Coin.


----------



## TUGBrian (Dec 7, 2017)

there are actually a good number of other cybercurrencies available to buy/invest in that are nowhere near the value of bitcoin.


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Dec 8, 2017)

Bitcoin Hits New High Above $11,500 as the Winklevoss Twins Become the First Bitcoin Billionaires
By Oscar Williams-Grut/ Finance/ Business Insider/ businessinsider.com

"LONDON — Bitcoin is back to its winning ways, posting a record high on Sunday and making billionaires of the twins Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss.

Bitcoin suffered big price falls last week but recovered over the weekend. The digital currency hit a new high of $11,826.76 a coin on Sunday, according to data from Markets Insider, surpassing its previous high of about $11,300...."

I know this is old info in less that a week's time

Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Dec 8, 2017)

Bitcoin is Now Breaking Through Major Price Barriers Every Few Hours
By Eshe Nelson/ Quartz/ qz.com

"It took nearly five years for the price of bitcoin to finally cross the first $1,000 mark. Comparatively, the next $1,000 increase was a relatively swift three-and-a-half year journey. In the past few months, though, bitcoin has broken through $1,000 thresholds every few weeks. In the past few days, it has taken mere hours.

Overnight, the price of bitcoin briefly climbed above $17,000, just eight hours after it first reached $16,000...."

Bonkers

Richard


----------



## pedro47 (Dec 8, 2017)

Bitcoin dropped this morning to $14,794.


----------



## md8287 (Dec 8, 2017)

Definitely a wild roller coaster.

Now $16,200.


----------



## x3 skier (Dec 8, 2017)

Sounds a lot like”Tulip Mania”. At least back then, you wound up with some flower bulbs when the whole thing collapsed Or maybe the Hyperinflation of Germany prior to WWII when it took a wheelbarrow full of currency to by a loaf of bread. Or maybe a gigantic Ponzi operation. 

I am amazed that people will pay extraordinary sums for some software “currency” created in somebody’s basement. Even the “money” created by the Fed is backed by the USA as “legal tender” while Bitcoin is based on the notion you can unload a crypto currency on somebody else who will accept/buy it. 

P T Barnum was right. 

Cheers


----------



## PigsDad (Dec 8, 2017)

*Hackers swipe over $64mn in bitcoin from cryptocurrency marketplace NiceHash*

Yikes!  What kinds of protection, if any, are available for Bitcoin holders?

Kurt


----------



## VacationForever (Dec 8, 2017)

It is not backed by anything.  So for a start, there is no protection for Bitcoin owners.  Play and speculate all you want.


----------



## pedro47 (Dec 8, 2017)

This is my philosophy always buy low and sell high.


----------



## Egret1986 (Dec 8, 2017)

pedro47 said:


> This is my philosophy always buy low and sell high.



I believe that would be anyone's ideal.  I doubt anyone's philosophy is to buy high and sell low.


----------



## x3 skier (Dec 8, 2017)

Egret1986 said:


> I believe that would be anyone's ideal.  I doubt anyone's philosophy is to buy high and sell low.



Unfortunately that is the result of most small traders. 

Cheers


----------



## Egret1986 (Dec 8, 2017)

x3 skier said:


> Unfortunately that is the result of most small traders.
> 
> Cheers



Agreed.  Folks get "jacked up" by all the hype and start thinking they need to get on-board the train.  Unfortunately, the scenario of buying high and having to sell low can happen.

"On mature markets, traders would take immediate advantage of large price variations by buying at the lowest price and selling at the highest price, normally in a matter of seconds. Computers might even do it automatically. But the limited liquidity on bitcoin markets doesn’t completely allow for that—for now. And one reason is the difficulty some bitcoin holders have selling when market action is hot.

If you can’t sell when the price is rising, it might not be that big a deal. You just have to wait until trading calms down and you can get an order through, by which time the price will be even higher.

But if you can’t sell when the price is falling, that could be a major problem that compounds losses, intensifies selling pressure and wrecks confidence in the cryptocurrency. If you want to sell at $10,000 but can’t get an order in until the price drops to $8,000, the delay costs you $2,000, or 20%, on top of whatever the loss would have been at $10,000. As word gets out that sell orders may not be filled, more people are likely to submit sell orders preemptively, hoping to get in line while they can.

This can create the equivalent of a bank run, with more customers trying to get their cash out than Coinbase or any other exchange might be able to handle. Bank runs begin as psychological panics, which means that even if Coinbase had the assets on hand to fulfill all requests, technical problems preventing those transactions could freak consumers out just as much as if their money were actually gone. Once confidence crumbles, everybody wants their assets in hand, rather than in the system. That wrecks the market. For everybody wondering if bitcoin is a bubble about to burst, well, that’s one way it could burst."


----------



## md8287 (Dec 8, 2017)

Egret1986 said:


> This can create the equivalent of a bank run, with more customers trying to get their cash out than Coinbase or any other exchange might be able to handle. Bank runs begin as psychological panics, which means that even if Coinbase had the assets on hand to fulfill all requests, technical problems preventing those transactions could freak consumers out just as much as if their money were actually gone. Once confidence crumbles, everybody wants their assets in hand, rather than in the system. That wrecks the market. For everybody wondering if bitcoin is a bubble about to burst, well, that’s one way it could burst."


That is what happened yesterday but on the buy side. Once it crossed $17 Coinbase started to crash due to heavy buy volume. 

By the way the #1 selling app on App Store yesterday was Coinbase. Lots of new buyers coming, if not scared by Coinbase technical problem yesterday.


----------



## Egret1986 (Dec 8, 2017)

md8287 said:


> That is what happened yesterday but on the buy side. Once it crossed $17 Coinbase started to crash due to heavy buy volume.
> 
> By the way the #1 selling app on App Store yesterday was Coinbase. Lots of new buyers coming, if not scared by Coinbase technical problem yesterday.



My son talked about buying in some time ago.  I started to text him yesterday to see how "rich" he is now.  Maybe I'll start the "dialogue" with him today.  He's a young fella and very savvy in my mind.  Me, I'm an old fart looking towards retirement and I'm too scared of this kinda stuff.


----------



## WalnutBaron (Dec 9, 2017)

I saw this today in the newsletter from my financial advisor: *Bitcoin watch:* Looking for Bitcoin exposure without having to deal with tokens, mining and eye-popping volatility? Fundstrat says potential Bitcoin/Blockchain equity plays include Bitcoin Investment Trust (OTCQX:GBTC), MGT Capital Investments (OTCQB:MGTI), HIVE Blockchain Technologies (OTCPK:RELF), U.S. Global Investors (NASDAQ:GROW), DigitalX (OTC:GGXF), Nvidia (NASDAQ:NVDA), AMD (NASDAQ:AMD), CME Group (NASDAQ:CME), CBOE Holdings (NASDAQ:CBOE), Overstock.com (NASDAQ:OSTK), Goldman Sachs (NYSE:GS) and Square (NYSE:SQ).


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Dec 9, 2017)

Bitcoin Is None of the Things It Was Supposed to Be
By Adrianne Jeffries/ Dead Dreams/ theoutline.com

"The cryptocurrency was supposed to replace the finance industry. Instead, it has replicated it.

On Thursday, the price of Bitcoin fluctuated by thousands of dollars in a 24-hour period. The Coinbase app — which lets you buy and sell cryptocurrencies, and is the number two free app in the App Store as of this writing — started freezing and throwing errors, which the company said was due to high traffic. At one point, I tested the app by trying to sell some of my (very small) amount of Bitcoin, and the app simply buckled. “Bitcoin sales are temporarily disabled,” it said in an error message.

This is not how Bitcoin was supposed to work.

In fact, most of the current Bitcoin economy, worth around $276 billion at the time of writing, is antithetical to the premise of Bitcoin.


Let’s go back to the beginning of Bitcoin. The first stop for anyone seriously interested in Bitcoin is the Bitcoin white paper: the canonical document written by Bitcoin’s pseudonymous creator, Satoshi Nakamoto, in 2008. “I've been working on a new electronic cash system that's fully peer-to-peer, with no trusted third party,” Nakamoto wrote when he posted the proposal to a cryptocurrency mailing list. This sentence describes everything Bitcoin was intended to be, and the qualities that first got people excited about it, the key terms being “cash,” “peer-to-peer,” and “no trusted third party.”...."





The price of Bitcoin increased by thousands of dollars in one week. Coinbase


Richard


----------



## MULTIZ321 (Dec 17, 2017)

Bitcoin Jumps Another 10 Percent in 24 Hours to Pass $19,000
By Timothy B. Lee/ Tech-Policy/ Bitcoin/ Ars Technica/ arstechnica.com

"Bitcoin's price set a new record on Saturday as the virtual currency rose above $19,000 for the first time on the Bitstamp exchange. The gains came just hours after the currency crossed the $18,000 mark. Bitcoin's value has doubled over the last three weeks, and it's up more than 20-fold over the last year.

Bitcoin's value keeps rising despite a growing chorus of experts who say the currency value is an unsustainable bubble. One CNBC survey this week found that 80 percent of Wall Street economists and market strategists saw bitcoin's rise as a bubble, compared to just two percent who said the currency's value was justified. Another survey reported by _The Wall Street Journal_ this week found that 51 out of 53 economists surveyed thought bitcoin's price was an unsustainable bubble..."


Richard


----------



## easyrider (Dec 19, 2017)

I just noticed a dealio for bitcoin this morning. Emil Oldenburg has just sold all of his bitcoin. He is a co-founder of bitcoin.com, not bitcoin. He also promotes bitcoin cash and I think that is what he bought with the sale of his bitcoin. 

https://nordic.businessinsider.com/...is-bitcoins-because-its-as-good-as-useless--/

http://www.smh.com.au/business/mark...s-bitcoin-com-co-founder-20171218-p4yxty.html

Bill


----------



## dominidude (Dec 19, 2017)

A dialect is a language without an army. 
Only prophets with armies survive their own preaching. 
Only by force (by being threatened with the use of an army) did paper money become accepted instead of other forms of payment (like gold, salt, copper, etc).
Have we not learned anything from history yet?


----------



## md8287 (Dec 19, 2017)

Right now, and this time last week, BitCoin price is/was $17,600. 
$44million worth traded in that window. 
What is all this volatility talk.
Just because it went up to and down from $20k during the week?!?!?!?


----------



## easyrider (Dec 19, 2017)

Oddly, it seems like every time bitcoin looks like it is about to tank it comes back with a vengeance. Probably people buying the dips. 

Bill


----------



## dominidude (Dec 20, 2017)

bitcoin is being taken up in zimbabwe, nigeria, south africa, and venezuela among developing countries

Interesting article.

This is the adoption path taken by a lot of technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle

early adopters – younger, more educated, tended to be community leaders,* less prosperous*
The first adopters tend to be out of the main stream.
Then more and more main stream people come into the fold, until eventually everyone adopts it.
Maybe Bitcoin is here to stay.
That being said, it still nothing short of a Las Vegas style bet to put any money into this currency until prices stabilize.


----------



## TUGBrian (Dec 20, 2017)

saw that they shut down trading for bitcoin cash under the cloud of insider trading!


----------



## VacationForever (Dec 22, 2017)

Bitcoin dropped 33% today.  

My friends from out of state came to visit us on Wed and the husband was pretty nuts over Bitcoin.  His wife, my husband and I brushed it off as virtual currency with no backing.  It sounded like he bought some recently.


----------



## am1 (Dec 22, 2017)

It will be a good lesson for some.


----------



## TUGBrian (Dec 22, 2017)

definitely not a merry xmas present for those who bought in within the past few weeks!


----------



## bogey21 (Dec 22, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Bitcoin dropped 33% today.



I think Bitcoin was down 40% for the Week.  I saw this and bought more gold.

George


----------



## md8287 (Dec 22, 2017)

When it goes down is the best time to buy...assuming it goes up again.  
My problem was I thought at $15K it was at the bottom, not $11.5K.


----------



## am1 (Dec 22, 2017)

I am happy that some sense has come to the market.  Not enough yet but that will come as people panic.  Sure some got in and got lucky but others left holding the bag will pay dearly for it.  It is sad at an individual level especially ones using household expense money but the same thing happens in vegas everyday.


----------



## am1 (Dec 22, 2017)

Not easy to catch a falling knife.  Especially with 0 being the bottom.



md8287 said:


> When it goes down is the best time to buy...assuming it goes up again.
> My problem was I thought at $15K it was at the bottom, not $11.5K.


----------



## md8287 (Dec 22, 2017)

am1 said:


> Not easy to catch a falling knife.  Especially with 0 being the bottom.


I know
But I'm a dreamer looking for the top .  And yes I did once buy a timeshare from a developer


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## md8287 (Dec 22, 2017)

am1 said:


> It is sad at an individual level especially ones using household expense money but the same thing happens in vegas everyday.


I made the same analogy to using my "Vegas money". Anything more and this would be very scary. This thing will have many ups and downs but with play money its fun.


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## md8287 (Dec 22, 2017)

TUGBrian said:


> definitely not a merry xmas present for those who bought in within the past few weeks!


In the bitcoin world xmas is still VERY FAR away.


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## easyrider (Dec 27, 2017)

*HEADS UP... 
*
After Jan 1, 2018 all cryto trades are taxable events. 



> CRYPTOCURRENCY INVESTORS LOSE MAJOR TAX BREAK UNDER NEW U.S. TAX CODE
> 
> 
> The new U.S. tax code amends IRC Section 1031 (a)(1) regarding “like kind exchanges,” excluding all cryptocurrencies from a previous legal loophole and making all cryptocurrency trades a taxable event.
> ...



Bill


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## T_R_Oglodyte (Jan 3, 2018)

Buying a house with cryptocurrency .....

Bitcoin-like cryptocurrency used to buy home in Tukwila, likely a first for Seattle-area market


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## VacationForever (Jan 11, 2018)

md8287 said:


> When it goes down is the best time to buy...assuming it goes up again.
> My problem was I thought at $15K it was at the bottom, not $11.5K.


... my take is that the bottom is exactly 0.000000.

Good read here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhe...-bitcoincrypto-currency-fallacy/#1dcaaa537da8


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 14, 2018)

Bitcoin's Rise Might Be Linked to Price Manipulation, Study Indicates
By Shannon Liao/ Policy & Law/ US G World/ Tech/ The Verge/ theverge.com

*"Through analysis of public ledgers.*

*The rise of cryptocurrency prices last year, including bitcoin, ethereum, and altcoins, could have been largely caused by price manipulation, according to a paper published today by researchers at the University of Texas at Austin. The paper, co-authored by a finance professor who is known for catching fraud in financial markets, reveals several distinct patterns in trading that suggest several people or a person at the major cryptocurrency exchange Bitfinex inflated virtual coin prices.

The 66-page report states that Bitfinex might have used the virtual coin Tether, which it owns, to generate fake demand for bitcoin by buying up the virtual currency and keeping its price up while it sank at other exchanges. The paper found that the more Tether entered the market, the higher cryptocurrency prices would rise, “similar to the inflationary effect of printing additional money.”...."





Illustration by James Bareham / The Verge


Richard
*


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## MULTIZ321 (Jun 29, 2018)

Bitcoin Bloodbath Nears Dot-Com Levels as Many Tokens Go to Zero
By Adam Haigh and Eric Lam/ Bloomberg/ MSN/ Money/ Finance/ Markets/ msn.com

"(Bloomberg) -- Bitcoin’s meteoric rise last year had many observers calling it one of the biggest speculative manias in history. The cryptocurrency’s 2018 crash may help cement its place in the bubble record books.

Down 70 percent from its December high after sliding for a fourth straight day on Friday, Bitcoin is getting ever-closer to matching the Nasdaq Composite Index’s 78 percent peak-to-trough plunge after the U.S. dot-com bubble burst. Hundreds of other virtual coins have all but gone to zero -- following the same path as Pets.com and other red-hot initial public offerings that flamed out in the early 2000s....."








Richard


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## spackler (Oct 12, 2021)

~$55,000 now.


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