# Back to Reality



## ronparise (Sep 17, 2013)

Recently a 428000 point Club Wyndham Access contract sold on ebay for $2500 plus closing and transfer.  I and others pointed to this sale as evidence that prices were going up and up

That sale must not have gone through, The same seller re-listed the contract and today the auction ended at $750 plus closing and transfer; closer to the $3/1000 points that Im willing to pay

I hope that this means we are getting reasonable again in pricing..well see


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## jules54 (Sep 17, 2013)

Can you post the link to the ebay auction? Was it one of the less competent sales companies? I have noticed a few Wyndham auctions recently that have had interest for me being sold for a much higher amount then they ever should and then relisted also at a later date. Someone did get a good deal on those 428,000 Access points for $750.00 don't you think? Closing and transfer is probably $800.00?


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## Bigrob (Sep 17, 2013)

I was watching that one too but am still thinking CWA points are not necessarily worth it at any price given the higher MF than at some of the lower MF locations. But if Ron is considering it I might have to change my thinking.


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## 55plus (Sep 17, 2013)

We don't own any CWA points, not yet anyway. As for exploding maintenance and special assessments go, CWA is one way to hedge your bet against getting hit hard. I see us owning some CWA points in the future, but only at the right price.


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## ronparise (Sep 17, 2013)

Bigrob said:


> I was watching that one too but am still thinking CWA points are not necessarily worth it at any price given the higher MF than at some of the lower MF locations. But if Ron is considering it I might have to change my thinking.



As I fast approach my biblical allocation of three score and ten, Ive decided  that 70 is the new 50

and when it comes to Wyndham,  6 is fast becoming the new 5

CWA at $5.50/1000 points is not too bad. but the mf is not the big reason to own CWA, Its the comfort of an average mf, (ie not having all your eggs in one resorts basket)  that's important.  But I bought CWA for the ARP. I knew it was a risk, but it worked out for me.  I have multiple reservations for Mardi Gras 2015, that I wouldnt have,  except for CWA


With the number of points I have now , a new contract doesnt affect my average mf too much. so  I can buy stuff you wouldnt buy and still make money with it.....

What Im telling you is the same thing I told my daughter years ago, ....do as I say...not as I do


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## Bigrob (Sep 17, 2013)

*What the...???*

Maybe reality has NOT been restored...

Happened again. Thought for sure I had it this time because it was a midday End of Auction, but NO... the snipers strike again.

At 1 min to auction end, the bid was at $511, where it had set since early this morning. It had been sitting at $501 for several days before that. 

I had my snipe programmed for 6 seconds before auction close, at more than $400 more than the bid with less than a minute left. Alas, the final bid soared to more than $600 over my snipe.

I suppose that's a good thing though. One less thing to have to explain to my wife (although I definitely had a nice rationalization planned out). 

What's odd about this is that when I search Massanutten rental weeks, they always go cheap - less than even the pretty reasonable MF's there. So I'm not sure who is snapping these things up. 

Oh well, one thing is for sure... there will be others. Been seeing a lot of them posted lately.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Summit-Massanutten-Virginia-Timeshare-No-Reserve-/161103907523


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## csxjohn (Sep 17, 2013)

Bigrob said:


> Maybe reality has NOT been restored...
> 
> Happened again. Thought for sure I had it this time because it was a midday End of Auction, but NO... the snipers strike again.
> 
> ...



6 seconds gives someone like me enough time to bid higher.  It wasn't me but if someone is watching to manually snipe, I think that is too much time.   I set mine at 3 secs and 2 secs.

Of course you need to set your snipe as high as you're willing and able.  Better luck next time.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 17, 2013)

Yes, experienced snipers set it closer to the auction close. And bid the MAX amount you want to pay. IF it is WHAT you truly want - then the ONLY good deal, is IF you WIN the AUCTION (not winning is a bigger loss than the $400 you might have save).


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## Bigrob (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks... I did enter the highest I was willing to pay, eventually I think I'll snag one but don't want to overpay for it. Just really surprised at the way the price shot up in the last seconds. 

I guess I'll adjust to 3 seconds since there seem to be so many other snipers out there.


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## gruberguy (Sep 17, 2013)

I have multiple reservations for Mardi Gras 2015, that I wouldnt have, except for CWA


 Might be a dumb question.... But, How do you already have reservations for MG 2015? I thought you could only reserve 13 months out.... Please excuse me for being a newbie!!! HA!


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## Kidpolska (Sep 19, 2013)

eBay auction for 210K in San Antonio just closed with a winning bid of $2200.01.  I finally gave up once it got over $1500...I guess I have to come up with a new strategy now.


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## ronparise (Sep 19, 2013)

gruberguy said:


> I have multiple reservations for Mardi Gras 2015, that I wouldnt have, except for CWA
> 
> 
> Might be a dumb question.... But, How do you already have reservations for MG 2015? I thought you could only reserve 13 months out.... Please excuse me for being a newbie!!! HA!



Sorry

should have been 2014

Im already planning my 2015 strategy. so had 2015 on my mind


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## csxjohn (Sep 19, 2013)

Kidpolska said:


> eBay auction for 210K in San Antonio just closed with a winning bid of $2200.01.  I finally gave up once it got over $1500...I guess I have to come up with a new strategy now.



One strategy that many of us use is to not bid until the final few seconds of an auction.  

Don't show anyone you're interested and don't be giving others the opportunity to outbid you.  Of course this is not as effective if there are many bidders but I think still a good plan.

There are services such as esnipe that can handle the mechanics for you and they are dirt cheap.


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## scootr5 (Sep 19, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> One strategy that many of us use is to not bid until the final few seconds of an auction.
> 
> Don't show anyone you're interested and don't be giving others the opportunity to outbid you.  Of course this is not as effective if there are many bidders but I think still a good plan.



And don't forget - don't _ever_ mention it here if you think it's a good buy and you're interested.


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## csxjohn (Sep 19, 2013)

scootr5 said:


> And don't forget - don't _ever_ mention it here if you think it's a good buy and you're interested.



What a dilemma some people have.  They want advice before they bid and when they put out a little info, someone hunts it down and posts a link.


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 19, 2013)

Most of eBAY bidders with experience GOT that experience by getting outbid and/or asking questions. There is almost ALWAYS another similar auction that will come down the road.

The difference with Newbies here on TUG, they can SEARCH for other threads and learn stuff that is a month or 2 years old. If they choose NOT to do their TUG site research but to just post the same age old questions, it will take them more EBAY trials and adventures. 

Newbies could also LEARN what a PM is and use that to ask directed questions of other posters about a certain auction.

PS I did stumble across at a resort the guy who I beat on a VERY HEATED eBAY auction a few years back. That fixed week cost me $2211 - but he was unhappy because HE REALLY WANTED THAT WEEK AND UNIT .. he just ran out of bidding time. I think when he yelled at me, "It was YOU who outbid ME!" --- didn't have to think too much as I was standing in the resort during the WEEK he didn't win. Of course, I (at the auction end time) was annoyed that I had to bid about $1500 MORE than I figure I should have gotten the week for.

After the auction, I figured out what esnipe was --- I learned and that is part of the process --- both on TUG, eBAY and life.


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## Kidpolska (Sep 19, 2013)

I guess I was just expecting to pay somewhere between $4-6/1000, not $10


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## 55plus (Sep 19, 2013)

Kidpolska said:


> I guess I was just expecting to pay somewhere between $4-6/1000, not $10



I won't pay more than a penny a point. A penny a point isn't bad for a location/resort where you need APR. My most recent purchased at Wyndham Waikiki Beach Walk was .05 cents per point on a 500K plus point contract. I considered that a steal.


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## scootr5 (Sep 19, 2013)

morrisjim said:


> I won't pay more than a penny a point. A penny a point isn't bad for a location/resort where you need APR. My most recent purchased at Wyndham Waikiki Beach Walk was .05 cents per point on a 500K plus point contract. I considered that a steal.



I'm confused - you won't pay more than a penny a point, but you consider five cents per point a steal?


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## ronparise (Sep 19, 2013)

scootr5 said:


> I'm confused - you won't pay more than a penny a point, but you consider five cents per point a steal?



I think he meant a half a penny a point or .5 cents 
not .05 cents or 5 cents


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## channimal (Sep 19, 2013)

Fair warning... I'm a 2 sec esniper


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## ronparise (Sep 19, 2013)

morrisjim said:


> I won't pay more than a penny a point. A penny a point isn't bad for a location/resort where you need APR. My most recent purchased at Wyndham Waikiki Beach Walk was .05 cents per point on a 500K plus point contract. I considered that a steal.



The way I think is that  a Panama City beach contract or National Harbor or Bali Hai contract at a penny a point is cheaper in the long run than a CWA contract that I pick up for free. The problem is I don't always have the $5000 I need for a 500k contract. But I can always handle free


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## scootr5 (Sep 19, 2013)

ronparise said:


> I think he meant a half a penny a point or .5 cents
> not .05 cents or 5 cents



That's what I get for not reading carefully....


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## ronparise (Sep 19, 2013)

channimal said:


> Fair warning... I'm a 2 sec esniper



Two seconds is where I set it too.


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## tug1873 (Sep 21, 2013)

Kidpolska said:


> eBay auction for 210K in San Antonio just closed with a winning bid of $2200.01.  I finally gave up once it got over $1500...I guess I have to come up with a new strategy now.





That is a very high price I paid $53 a few months ago for the same of points. At that price I would buy worldmark instead. 

The question that some ones needs to ask are these actually closing. 

I do not want to acuse anyone of shilling but that is something I would not be surprised to see someone in the timeshare business doing on ebay. Or even friendly bidding which is hard to prove.


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## ronparise (Sep 21, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> That is a very high price I paid $53 a few months ago for the same of points. At that price I would buy worldmark instead.
> 
> The question that some ones needs to ask are these actually closing.
> 
> I do not want to acuse anyone of shilling but that is something I would not be surprised to see someone in the timeshare business doing on ebay. Or even friendly bidding which is hard to prove.



Shill bids or friendly bids don't bother me. I bid my price and I either get it or not.

You didn't say as much but what you say about rather buying Worldmark for the same money made me think

  Here's my prediction: 
Worldmark prices are still coming down and Wyndham is going up. If they haven't already, they will soon equalize.  20000 wm and 400000 wyn will cost the same


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## timeos2 (Sep 22, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Shill bids or friendly bids don't bother me. I bid my price and I either get it or not.
> 
> You didn't say as much but what you say about rather buying Worldmark for the same money made me think
> 
> ...



Ron - For what it's worth I believe you are correct. Wyndham has done all the damage they can to FSP but are still actively undermining Worldmark values. They will succeed and then going forward the two will be true equals.


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## kwindham (Sep 22, 2013)

ronparise said:


> The way I think is that  a Panama City beach contract or National Harbor or Bali Hai contract at a penny a point is cheaper in the long run than a CWA contract that I pick up for free. The problem is I don't always have the $5000 I need for a 500k contract. But I can always handle free



Ron, this is sadly my dilemma too!    Those contracts I really really want usually come up right around the same time tuition is due, or some other out of my ordinary expense!


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## tug1873 (Sep 22, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Shill bids or friendly bids don't bother me. I bid my price and I either get it or not.
> 
> You didn't say as much but what you say about rather buying Worldmark for the same money made me think
> 
> ...



West coast real estate is much higher so are hotel rates. The exception to that is New York. So there should always be a premium on worldmark because of that.

Also workdmark has a lot western canadain resorts which are hard areas to book. So I would expect a premium because of that. Add in the sales aspect of points and fully loaded contracts and lower fees.  wyndham may already be at par .

If some the recent prices are true then it actually might be more expensive then worldmark.


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## Kidpolska (Sep 23, 2013)

I'm still gonna hold some hope that people start "dumping" contracts after November as 2014 MF'S begin looming on the horizon.  Right now, I have adjusted my target slightly upward from $4-6/1000...but in any event, it is still better than the corporate $435/1000!


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## snickers104 (Sep 23, 2013)

In my looking around it seems like 5.80 to 6.00 is about the average.  Stopped bidding on eBay stuff and went with sum ( yes sum) body else. Will let you all know how it turns out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 55plus (Sep 25, 2013)

Kidpolska said:


> I'm still gonna hold some hope that people start "dumping" contracts after November as 2014 MF'S begin looming on the horizon.  Right now, I have adjusted my target slightly upward from $4-6/1000...but in any event, it is still better than the corporate $435/1000!



I thought Wyndham's retail points rate is $220 per 1000. Either way it's way too much. The only way to justify the retail price is if it included maintenance fees for life...


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## ronparise (Sep 25, 2013)

tug1873 said:


> West coast real estate is much higher so are hotel rates. The exception to that is New York. So there should always be a premium on worldmark because of that.
> 
> Also workdmark has a lot western canadain resorts which are hard areas to book. So I would expect a premium because of that. Add in the sales aspect of points and fully loaded contracts and lower fees.  wyndham may already be at par .
> 
> If some the recent prices are true then it actually might be more expensive then worldmark.



You may be right about  the cost of west coast vs east coast real estate, but as I see it there are several  reasons  why it  doesnt make any difference 

1) Both systems have resorts on both sides of the Mississippi. 

Wyndham in San Francisco, Anaheim, Oceanside, San Diego, Las Vegas, Sedona, Flagstaff, Steamboat  Sprngs, Pagosa, Durango, Branson, Fairfield Bay, 

and Worldmark in Florida and New Orleans

2) More and more of the resorts have become "shared" resorts, with some units Worldmark and some Wyndham

3) Wyndhams target cost to develop or buy or otherwise add properties to either system is 16% of what they sell it for. The rest is marketing and profit. And I think the marketing costs and profit is the same in either system

To my way of thinking The cost of points or credits on the resale market is determined by what a buyer is willing to pay. And buyers are guided by the cost of a vacation more than the value of the underlying real estate. Since mf is less in the Worldmark system then in the Wyndham system, people are still willing to pay more for Worldmark. but the cost for a vacation pretty much evens out if you amortize the purchase price over 10 years.

And if you compare the cost of the low mf Wyndham points contracts to Worldmark the  price is pretty much the same right now
12000 Worldmark credits, enough to stay in a 2 bedroom unit in one of the newer resorts will cost you about $4000. 250000 Wyndham points deeded at Canterbury, enough for a 2 bedroom in one of the newer resorts will cost you the same...maybe even less. 

So I agree, depending on the Wyndham resort you buy and where you vacation,  Worldmark is already  cheaper alternative, which is why my last several deals have been Worldmark, not Wyndham


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## Bigrob (Sep 25, 2013)

morrisjim said:


> I thought Wyndham's retail points rate is $220 per 1000. Either way it's way too much. The only way to justify the retail price is if it included maintenance fees for life...



The retail rate just went to $225/Kpt over the summer but of course they "discount" off of that and throw in bonus points to get a retail buyer to VIP. So a 105K contract will show up as being "worth" $23,625, but today, and today only, they will give you 295K "bonus points" to get you to VIP plus knock off $6,500 bringing your price to "only" $17,125.00. How could you possibly pass an offer that good up?

Excuse me whilst I dig my tongue back out of my cheek.


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## Joe33426 (Sep 25, 2013)

Bigrob said:


> The retail rate just went to $225/Kpt over the summer but of course they "discount" off of that and throw in bonus points to get a retail buyer to VIP. So a 105K contract will show up as being "worth" $23,625, but today, and today only, they will give you 295K "bonus points" to get you to VIP plus knock off $6,500 bringing your price to "only" $17,125.00. How could you possibly pass an offer that good up?
> 
> Excuse me whilst I dig my tongue back out of my cheek.



I'm extremely happy that I found TUG and that I bought resale, but I wonder sometimes where the timeshare industry would be without developers creating new resorts and people buying retail.  For example, I'm pretty excited about the Wyndham in Chicago and hope one day that I'll be able to go there.  But I wonder if Wyndham would have created such a resort if the profits weren't what they are. 

Also, I haven't attended a presentation for the bonuses and probably won't, but many do enjoy the gift cards, free tickets, etc. with no intention of buying retail.  If developers would only give these to potential retail buyers then marketing costs would go down and conceivably the retail price.  

I guess its the lies from the sales weasels, etc. that give the Developers a bad name, but every buyer can't buy resale or we wouldn't get such good deals....


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## 55plus (Sep 25, 2013)

> I guess its the lies from the sales weasels, etc. that give the Developers a bad name, but every buyer can't buy resale or we wouldn't get such good deals....



Sales weasels work for and are paid by the developer so there're one in the same as far as I'm concerned.


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## MauiLea (Sep 25, 2013)

There are still good deals on ebay. I will have to try sniping....as I am now learning about it.  In May, I bought 126,000 Wyndham Club Access points for $ 2.50 on ebay.  Then, I had to pay about $ 800 for closing and deed transfer. 

No one was sniping me for that auction. Maybe the number of points was too low for many bidders.

For other CWA points, some sellers were offering FREE closing and deed transfer, but those were usually going for higher bids.


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## snickers104 (Sep 25, 2013)

Closing on a deal as we speak with sum body...it included closing and transfer, I figured the best I could do was about 400.00 for both. (299.00 transfer + 100.00 closing)  I paid 575.00 for this contract...so I actually paid 175.00 more than a "free" contract.  My Ebay bidding always went way over the 575.00 so I think I actually paid less in the long run.  If all that makes any sense to anyone but me.


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## ronparise (Sep 25, 2013)

Joe33426 said:


> I'm extremely happy that I found TUG and that I bought resale, but I wonder sometimes where the timeshare industry would be without developers creating new resorts and people buying retail.  For example, I'm pretty excited about the Wyndham in Chicago and hope one day that I'll be able to go there.  But I wonder if Wyndham would have created such a resort if the profits weren't what they are.
> 
> Also, I haven't attended a presentation for the bonuses and probably won't, but many do enjoy the gift cards, free tickets, etc. with no intention of buying retail.  If developers would only give these to potential retail buyers then marketing costs would go down and conceivably the retail price.
> 
> I guess its the lies from the sales weasels, etc. that give the Developers a bad name, but every buyer can't buy resale or we wouldn't get such good deals....



First of all Wyndham didnt create the Chicago resort in the sense that the didnt build and develop from the ground up. What they did is buy into something that was already there. And thats pretty much the history of timeshares. The first timeshares  were hotels that the owners werent able to profit from. so instead of renting hotel rooms they sold them.  With the Wyndham deals in Chicago and New York, they have come full circle and back to the beginning. Failed hotel projects being sold as timeshares.

But you are absolutely right without a developer, developing and selling for a profit there would be nothing on the secondary market for us to buy.  

Wyndhams formula is to spend about 16% on the property, about 60% on  marketing and commissions, and the rest is profit. So a condo that you or I might be able to buy for about $200000 they sell at a million. . It requires some pretty heavy duty marketing and some scary (even dishonest) sales tactics to make that happen. 

And thats the problem...not that Wyndham and the others need to make a profit...its the marketing expenses and sales tactics that most of us dont like. 

My opinion is that they could cut their prices by half and offer to buy back what they have sold at half of that  and make just as much money without the 600% markup. retail prices would come down and resale prices would go up.. Basically they could sell the same property, at a 100% markup over and over and over again, ie sell a week at $10000 and buy it back at $5000 and do it over and over again. They would make something on each turn and of course make money managing the project.   

Its the Gillette business plan.... Gillette gave away the razors ..... they made their money on the blades. Wyndham could essentially give away the product at cost, but make their money each time it turns over, and on the management...and we would love them for it

By the way...the first timeshare company still does business this way


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## timeos2 (Sep 25, 2013)

The days of huge, purpose built timeshares now appears to be behind us as a "golden age". Even the new ones still being built - such as the likely ill-fated "Desert Blue" Wyndham in LV aren't actually being done by Wyndham (they started it, wisely killed it & have now sold it to a third party who resurrected construction) that they have agreed to market and operate after the heavy duty costs are covered by others. Marriott effectively ended huge capital outlays when they spun off the timeshare side into it's own actually unrelated entity - they also focus on management & club operations now. That has been the DRI model almost since they took over Sunterra - the list goes on. 

We don't have to worry about retail sales to provide new locations as the new model creates them as needed from existing stock. Often from older, failed developments or restorations much as it all started from.  The value has always been and likely will remain with resales where the buyer isn't having to cover the extremely high costs of marketing. Maybe some group will wake up and realize the opportunity that a scaled down and less costly model of retail timeshare sales would represent but, so far, no one has done so.


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## Kidpolska (Sep 25, 2013)

Yes Jim, my math was off quite a bit.  I was referring to the contract I ALMOST bought in Myrtle Beach back in Aug of 308k points for $67k, which comes out to about $218/1000.  Now I'm about to pull the string on 154k in Myrtle for $1k, including closing and transfer fees.  Big difference...!


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## PassionForTravel (Sep 25, 2013)

Okay Ron I'll bite since no one else has. What is the company which is still doing it that way?

BTW - I totally agree that a TS developer should be able to do that and as a bonus advertise that they are the only honest timeshare company out there.

Ian


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## chadwill (Sep 26, 2013)

I believe it's Disney Vacation Club. I'll let the expert Ron confirm.


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## ronparise (Sep 26, 2013)

PassionForTravel said:


> Okay Ron I'll bite since no one else has. What is the company which is still doing it that way?
> 
> BTW - I totally agree that a TS developer should be able to do that and as a bonus advertise that they are the only honest timeshare company out there.
> 
> Ian



Hapimag

Theres an old article here on tug that describes the concept, basically unchanged since the 1960's

http://www.tug2.net/advice/hapimag.htm


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## ronparise (Sep 26, 2013)

Kidpolska said:


> I'm still gonna hold some hope that people start "dumping" contracts after November as 2014 MF'S begin looming on the horizon.  Right now, I have adjusted my target slightly upward from $4-6/1000...but in any event, it is still better than the corporate $435/1000!



Most Wyndham owners pay their fees on a monthly basis. There isnt the usual Dec surprise when the bill comes. Sure they always go up in January and the increase may be the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak, but the dumping goes on all year long.

I think what we are seeing with the increase in Wyndham prices is a classic "dead cat bounce"  If Im right you will,  once again, be able to buy what you want for next to nothing before too long.  But if Im wrong, you will have to open up your wallet  and spend some real money.

Part of me wants to see prices go down again so I can buy more, but part of me wants to see prices continue to go up, so I can profit from what I own....We are in that never-never land now, where prices are too high for me to buy, but not high enough to make me sell......So I watch and wait


And who wants to know what a "dead cat bounce" is?


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## PassionForTravel (Sep 26, 2013)

Interesting article, their buy back is 86%. The MF certainly aren't cheap, compared to US systems.

They were one of the ones I was going to guess, since I knew they were early. 

Ian


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## jeffwill (Sep 26, 2013)

Believe me--- life is so much LESS complicated AFTER Wyndham ownership.  I deeded back my two propertys, one held for 16 years, and am Wyndham free.  I still get all the Wyndham's I like through RCI and pay less than when I was an owner.

As to "deed back"--- I signed an agreement to not discuss the details so please don't ask.  

If I need Wyndham points ---------- "Hey RON, it's JEFF calling!"


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## csxjohn (Sep 26, 2013)

ronparise said:


> ...And who wants to know what a "dead cat bounce" is?




Please tell.


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## SmithOp (Sep 26, 2013)

We are hoping the housing dead cat bounce will last long enough for us to sell and cash out equity in the spring, then we can rent until it splatters again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## ronparise (Sep 26, 2013)

csxjohn said:


> Please tell.



even a dead cat will bounce if dropped from high enough

Its a term stockbrokers used to use to describe a short lived rally in the middle of a long decline


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## vacationhopeful (Sep 26, 2013)

I think this new "division" for the inter CLUB reservations is going to depress the resale prices even MORE.

Timeso2 is correct - BUY where you are going to stay. AND booking in advance.

Wyndham will have to MOVE those developer brought points into booked units at the HOME RESORTS for the other clubs to use. And you can't rent those reservations.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 27, 2013)

*Too Simple.*




timeos2 said:


> Maybe some group will wake up and realize the opportunity that a scaled down and less costly model of retail timeshare sales would represent but, so far, no one has done so.


Wal-Mart discounts cell phones & cell phone service.  

Price Club (Costco) discounts car rentals.  

CarMax offers quality used cars at reasonable no-haggle prices.  

By contrast, timeshares are apparently such a minuscule niche market in the overall scheme of things that nobody out there wants to break the pattern of high-overhead ballyhoo & high-pressure razzle-dazzle by trying instead a no-nonsense biz model based on value for money that would appeal to better informed customers

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## SMHarman (Sep 27, 2013)

AwayWeGo said:


> By contrast, timeshares are apparently such a minuscule niche market in the overall scheme of things that nobody out there wants to break the pattern of high-overhead ballyhoo & high-pressure razzle-dazzle by trying instead a no-nonsense biz model based on value for money that would appeal to better informed customers
> 
> So it goes.
> 
> -- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


You also have such price collapse on many timeshares that most are in disbelief that they paid $$$ for a real estate deed and now that deed is worth $.

Real estate is supposed to be a secure investment.

Of course any real estate has a carry cost.  If you own a second home, instead of paying an HOA your share of the taxes and insurance and maintainance you pay the bills and chose how to save for repairs but timeshare owners complain that MF is an obligation.  Well it is the same obligation you would have if you owned a second home and rarely visited it.

I came to this site with the renting good / timeshare bad Animal Farm type of thinking.  Many have that thinking.  The answer is somewhere in between and now I own.

Vacatia is trying to build a carmax for timeshares but until you provide listing price guidance rather than build a fancy shop front for people to list above bid you don't solve the problem.  If Vacatia want this to work then need to act more like a home realator and provide a guide price that the unit should be listed at, not let the seller pick their price.  We all like to think our house is worth what it was at the height of the real estate bubble in 2007.  We all like to think the house we are buying is valued at 2009 depression pricing.


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## scootr5 (Sep 27, 2013)

ronparise said:


> Here's my prediction:
> Worldmark prices are still coming down and Wyndham is going up. If they haven't already, they will soon equalize.  20000 wm and 400000 wyn will cost the same



All this talk made me decide to pull the trigger and list a Wyn contract that i don't want/need anymore. The only problem with it was that I had already pooled/used the 2014 points. We'll see if someone wants to pick it up despite that. I listed it for $1 plus the Wyn transfer fee.


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## paxsarah (Sep 27, 2013)

Completely off topic, but whenever I see the thread title I get an earworm. I'm hoping that sharing it will cure me. 

[youtube]TB54dZkzZOY[/youtube]


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## csxjohn (Sep 27, 2013)

paxsarah said:


> Completely off topic, but whenever I see the thread title I get an earworm. I'm hoping that sharing it will cure me.
> 
> [youtube]TB54dZkzZOY[/youtube]



Great song!


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