# Grand Luxxe Purchase on Resale Market ???



## davgel1 (Aug 16, 2012)

Hello All

I am thinking of purchasing a resale contract for the Grand Luxxe NV. The current owner has provided me a copy of the contract and I like the offer.
My question is the following:

1. The purchase price is basically the transfer fees and the closing cost and a fee for the company selling the contract (sell my timeshare now). 
     The resort transfer fee is 5x the MF ~ $5K, ~ 700 transaction fee and $1500 for a total of ~$7200!! 
2. Are the owner benefits transferable? 
3. I cannot get the resort to provide any info on this topic as I am not the member
4. Any phone number you can recommend?
5. At this price can I get my own contract if I play hard to get while on a presentation?

Thanks
I am wiling to purchase, but would like to enjoy the benefits of golf and Spa for wife on my visits.


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## DeniseM (Aug 16, 2012)

My understanding is that the benefits do no transfer with the resale - you only get them if you buy from the developer.  

You can find very reasonable rentals here, and at all resorts in Mexico - I would not buy!


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## davgel1 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks DeniseM.
Here is my deal, i own several TS and I am always able to book Mayan resorts via RCI or II. What I dont like is as a exchanger to these resorts We get treated as a second class citizen and have to pay full retail on any service and meals. I was thinking that as an owner we can balace the costs between member with benefits vs. out of pocket as an exchanger


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## DeniseM (Aug 16, 2012)

davgel1 said:


> Thanks DeniseM.
> Here is my deal, i own several TS and I am always able to book Mayan resorts via RCI or II. What I dont like is as a exchanger to these resorts We get treated as a second class citizen and have to pay full retail on any service and meals. I was thinking that as an owner we can balace the costs between member with benefits vs. out of pocket as an exchanger



The benefits don't transfer with a resale purchase, so it's not worth $7,000.

I believe if you rent from an owner - you get to use their benefits, and hopefully, an owner will verify that.


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## tschwa2 (Aug 16, 2012)

The contract should specify if any (or all)
 of the benefits transfer or only transfer to immediate family.  I believe they do not transfer upon sale.  Contracts at Vida properties can be fairly long.  Try to get a copy of the entire contract including all addendums.


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## davgel1 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks tschwa2,
Let me ask you this, If I can get the owner to add me as a -co-owner initially before the actual purchase, can I then as a co-owner remove him from the contract


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## pjrose (Aug 16, 2012)

davgel1 said:


> Thanks tschwa2,
> Let me ask you this, If I can get the owner to add me as a -co-owner initially before the actual purchase, can I then as a co-owner remove him from the contract



I can't answer your questions, but I like your logic!


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## DeniseM (Aug 16, 2012)

davgel1 said:


> Thanks tschwa2,
> Let me ask you this, If I can get the owner to add me as a -co-owner initially before the actual purchase, can I then as a co-owner remove him from the contract



I would never do this.  If he adds you onto the deed, and then does not transfer it to you, you will be on the hook for the maintenance fees, and he will still have control of the unit.


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## kenie (Aug 16, 2012)

davgel1 said:


> Thanks tschwa2,
> Let me ask you this, If I can get the owner to add me as a -co-owner initially before the actual purchase, can I then as a co-owner remove him from the contract



We were dabbling with the idea of a Grand Luxxe or Bliss resale purchase last year, and our understanding was that this was the only way that the owner benefits would transfer. There is an owner who posts under the name of mikenk who is very helpful with questions regarding the Grand Luxxe and he was the one who advised us of that work-around. 
We did have the same concern of how to make sure we ended up as the sole owners on the title.

Good luck.


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## Tropical lady (Aug 16, 2012)

Davgel1,
If you have been looking you probably know this, but.....
There is a GL and a GL Villa.....which one is it?  Is it a 1+1(older contracts) or 1+2 week contract?  5x's the MF for a 2 bdrm is more than $5000 unless this is just the 1 bdrm or lock off.  The benefits are tied to the units, ie 2 bdrm gets full benefits, 1 bdrm reduced benefits, the lock off no benefits.  I think there is a charge to add someone as an owner, but might be beneficial.  Do you have the no MF unless use in the contract?.... but this probably will not transfer.  Depending upon the age of the contract the benefits may not be the same as the newer contracts.
Also Kenie,
The Bliss and Grand Bliss get confused.  I think if you were looking at the GL, you were also looking at the GB (one level down) and not the Bliss which is between MP and GM.
Just some additional thoughts for comparison......


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## drguy (Aug 16, 2012)

The Grand Luxxe is being sold as a fractional property, so that may have an impact on ownership transfer as well.  How many weeks are being transferred?  Some contracts impose the transfer fee on each week changing hands, so 4 weeks in a 2 bedroom Grand Suite would be 4x1700x5=34000.


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## mikenk (Aug 16, 2012)

davgel1,

An important thing to understand is that almost all upper tier Mayan resorts have largely unique contracts to each owner based on timing of purchase and negotiation. For this reason, it is really important that you get not only the contract but also all the addenda where the special amenities are documented. Somewhere in all the documentation are the rules of adding / deleting people to the contract.

As a general rule,  Grupo Vidanta (the resort owners) by policy want to make it painful for people to sell their timeshares via 3rd party transactions (e.g high transfer fees); they also want owners to have more amenities than exchangers so many benefits don't transfer. The reason of course is to make company sold timeshares more valuable than resold timeshares. This makes perfect business sense to me and I think is fair. However, they also make it easy and inexpensive to be flexible in transferring ownership to family and friends. Read the contract carefully to see your options.

You asked about whether you could hard negotiate to get good deal. They will negotiate but are pretty proud of their units. However, they also traditionally have given full equity for lower tier trade-ins even if purchased cheaply on resale. Therefore, a strategy some of us have followed is to buy Grand Mayan units on resale and use full retail as equity for Grand Bliss or Grand Luxxe upgrades. I'm not sure that this strategy is still working, but probably so.

One question I am curious about is why the owner is selling for no gain. Most GL units are no MF unless you use. What is the logic of selling something as nice and usable as the Luxxe for nothing when it costs nothing to keep. Makes no sense; I would want to make sure I understand why before I buy at any price.

Just a few things to think about.

Mike


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## davgel1 (Aug 16, 2012)

Hello
This is a 1+1 a one bedroom GL Master Suite + Up to 16 Rounds of Golf + 2 Spa. The MF is $1,199 per week. The Master suite is a two bedroom 6 people max.


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## Tropical lady (Aug 16, 2012)

The GL Master Suite is the 2 bdrm, the GL Suite is the 1 bdrm.  GL Master Suite (2bdrm) gets 16 rounds of golf and the GL Suite (!bdrm) gets 12 rounds.
You mention 1 bdrm, so you are looking at the GL Suite.
This must be an older contract for 1+1 and if so I would expect the MF to be lower than what you stated.  If this was a newer contract you would have 1+2 weeks.
Also Mikenk is correct that for us who have "no MF unless used" there is no cost not to use.  Raises ???? as to why you would sell/transfer for no gain in this market??  Again some thoughts.....


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## davgel1 (Aug 16, 2012)

My apologies, the 1+1 refers to one GL Master Suite + one VF Week, so you are correct it is a 2bdrm with 16 golf+2 spa each week is $1199 and there is no charge if not used after the first 5 years. This is an old contract 2008' 
Tropical Lady, let me ask did you buy from developer? and would you recommend buying from developer? I am interested in buying but like anyone I'd rather pay the least amount posible. It seems to me that I may have to purchase from developer to get the benefits I want but Full retail for GL is tooooo high!! what is the average contract for the GL now days?  50K at least right.


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## Tropical lady (Aug 17, 2012)

Davgel1,
sent you a pm......


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## pittle (Aug 17, 2012)

Davgel1, you have received some great advice from Grand Luxxe owners.  We own a Grand Mayan that we bought in 2006 that had the pay MF for 5 years and then no MF unless we go.  Our contract specifically says that feature and the VF week are NOT Transferable except to our heirs.  Therefore, since the Grand Luxxe was not even in the works then, I cannot imagine that they have not tightened the contracts up even more.  (Just my opinion.)  Like Mikenk said, they look for ways to discourage the secondary market resales now.

FYI - Our Mayan Palace contracts that were written in 1999 still have the 1 MF amount for transfer and the VF week goes with it.  That is how things have changed since we became members of the Mayan Palace / Grand Mayan world 13 years ago.


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## emtuknowme (Aug 20, 2012)

*good deal or no?*

hi all. would greatly appreciate any opinions or advice. new to this forum.... this is what they are currently offering me at the Grand Mayan for a timeshare deal.... $21,500 towards my timeshare i own at the manhattan club (very fair price), then, 3 units, 1 week per unit, each unit consists of 1br plus kitchen plus one 1br, i can give them the use of the first two units for the first five years, keeping the use of the third unit to myself, if i do not use the units i do not pay the MF, if i do use, i have to pay the MF which is like 1700 for the 1 + 1, and if i do not use it, they say i can 'sell the week back' to them  for that year for 1700 in a check that is mailed right to me.  they are also throwing some sort of sunset deal, which is a lockoff bed/bath, from may-october, at any one of their home resorts, plus 15 vip weeks.   based upon this deal, my 'purchase price would be 20k, 10% of which i have to pay now, and the rest can be financed. the thought is, that the units will pay for themselves, especially if the owners will pay me for the use of the units if i do not use them. 

this sounds like a good deal to me. but does it to any of you out there? will the owner actually give me a check for the unused units i give back to them for use for marketing? am i missing something here? i would greatly appreciate any help.  

thanks.


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## pjrose (Aug 20, 2012)

emtuknowme said:


> hi all. would greatly appreciate any opinions or advice. new to this forum.... this is what they are currently offering me at the Grand Mayan for a timeshare deal.... $21,500 towards my timeshare i own at the manhattan club (very fair price), then, 3 units, 1 week per unit, each unit consists of 1br plus kitchen plus one 1br, i can give them the use of the first two units for the first five years, keeping the use of the third unit to myself, if i do not use the units i do not pay the MF, if i do use, i have to pay the MF which is like 1700 for the 1 + 1, and if i do not use it, *they say i can 'sell the week back' to them  for that year for 1700 in a check that is mailed right to me.*  they are also throwing some sort of sunset deal, which is a lockoff bed/bath, from may-october, at any one of their home resorts, plus 15 vip weeks.   based upon this deal, my 'purchase price would be 20k, 10% of which i have to pay now, and the rest can be financed. the thought is, that the units will pay for themselves, especially if the owners will pay me for the use of the units if i do not use them.
> 
> this sounds like a good deal to me. but does it to any of you out there? will the owner actually give me a check for the unused units i give back to them for use for marketing? am i missing something here? i would greatly appreciate any help.
> 
> thanks.



I can't address all the details, but I did mark some big red flags above.  

*If it is not clearly written in the contract, it probably isn't going to happen.*  Make sure EVERYTHING is written down in the contract.  Also do some comparison shopping by checking prices on eBay, TUG, Redweek, etc.


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## mikenk (Aug 20, 2012)

emtuknowme said:


> hi all. would greatly appreciate any opinions or advice. new to this forum.... this is what they are currently offering me at the Grand Mayan for a timeshare deal.... $21,500 towards my timeshare i own at the manhattan club (very fair price), then, 3 units, 1 week per unit, each unit consists of 1br plus kitchen plus one 1br, i can give them the use of the first two units for the first five years, keeping the use of the third unit to myself, if i do not use the units i do not pay the MF, if i do use, i have to pay the MF which is like 1700 for the 1 + 1, and if i do not use it, they say i can 'sell the week back' to them  for that year for 1700 in a check that is mailed right to me.  they are also throwing some sort of sunset deal, which is a lockoff bed/bath, from may-october, at any one of their home resorts, plus 15 vip weeks.   based upon this deal, my 'purchase price would be 20k, 10% of which i have to pay now, and the rest can be financed. the thought is, that the units will pay for themselves, especially if the owners will pay me for the use of the units if i do not use them.
> 
> this sounds like a good deal to me. but does it to any of you out there? will the owner actually give me a check for the unused units i give back to them for use for marketing? am i missing something here? i would greatly appreciate any help.
> 
> thanks.



In reality, you will be responsible for renting your units; they will not buy them back if they do not rent and they will not be responsible for renting them. That is a standard sales ploy but your contract will not read as promised. In todays world, you will likely not get the return as you want. The resorts are great but don't expect to get a rental return and realize with some work you can buy the same thing for much less on the resale market.

Mike


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## Passepartout (Aug 20, 2012)

If Grupo Vidanta could reliably rent those units for $1700/week, why do they need you? What's the point in paying all those salesweasels and bribes, oops, freebies, to get you to buy. Simple. They need you to pay them. They won't rent anything for you and will devalue your week the minute you want to sell it.

Remember and repeat- It's only what is in the contract that counts. Verbal promises are out the window with the wind.

They are very nice resorts, but in order to market them, they lie like rugs.

Jim


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## pittle (Aug 20, 2012)

A timeshare is NOT an investment and it will NOT pay for itself.  They will NOT mail you a check.  I love Mayan Resorts enough to own 6 weeks - I have never been able to rent a week for more than the maintenance fees.  

As others have stated - If it is not in the contract, it is NOT going to happen!  Read that closely while you are still at the resort and have time to rescind.


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## emtuknowme (Aug 21, 2012)

thank you so very much for your replies and information. i am going to the sales office today. assuming they do not put these terms into the contract, which everyone here seems to know that they wont, what tricks are they going to pull when i go to cancel? the contract gives two ways to cancel, first method, is to give all papers back to them and get a receipt, second is to mail a letter certified return receipt requested to an address they provided in mexico.  doesnt say whether the letter has to be in english or spanish, doesnt say what the letter has to state specifically either. 

im glad i found this board during the 5 day period. thank you to all. looking forward to your replies.


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## mikenk (Aug 21, 2012)

emtuknowme said:


> thank you so very much for your replies and information. i am going to the sales office today. assuming they do not put these terms into the contract, which everyone here seems to know that they wont, what tricks are they going to pull when i go to cancel? the contract gives two ways to cancel, first method, is to give all papers back to them and get a receipt, second is to mail a letter certified return receipt requested to an address they provided in mexico.  doesnt say whether the letter has to be in english or spanish, doesnt say what the letter has to state specifically either.
> 
> im glad i found this board during the 5 day period. thank you to all. looking forward to your replies.



If you are at the resort and within the 5 days, it should be easy. Go to Member Services, not to sales, take all your stuff and say you are rescinding since the promises of guaranteed (buy back) rental income is not in the contract. Make sure you get a signed statement that you rescinded.

From my experience, you should not have a problem with Member Services folks.

Mike


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## rifleman69 (Aug 21, 2012)

Just like a boat, renting is usually a better option and you're not tied down to going every year or renting out your unit to someone else.


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## traveler36 (Mar 16, 2014)

*What can a Grand Luxxe member resell you?*

The Grand Luxxe Agreements signed by new and upgrading members in, at least, the past few years only allow a Grand Luxxe Vacation Club member to sell Registered weeks and not Residence weeks. Most members have a package of two Residence weeks for each Registered week. These Residence weeks disappear when the member sells his Register week. A Registered week has a short life - a total of ten years from the calendar year beginning after the Agreement was signed. 
The Grand Luxxe Agreements make it clear that all the Addenda (and there are always some) cease to exist once the member resells the property. You can only sell or buy what is in the Agreement - at least for those agreement signed in the last few years.
Finally these Agreements state that to sell a Registered week the buyer must get approval from the GL management and no approval will be given until 10 times the yearly maintenance fee is paid to the GL. (some early contacts that have not been upgraded in the past few years have a lesser number of years).
It would be a good idea to check the language of the Grand Luxxe Agreements you are offering or being offered before you sell or buy; particularly Clauses section 6 of the Registered Weeks Agreement and section 10 C. of the Residence Weeks Agreement.


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## rpennisi (Mar 16, 2014)

traveler36 said:


> The Grand Luxxe Agreements signed by new and upgrading members in, at least, the past few years only allow a Grand Luxxe Vacation Club member to sell Registered weeks and not Residence weeks. Most members have a package of two Residence weeks for each Registered week. These Residence weeks disappear when the member sells his Register week. A Registered week has a short life - a total of ten years from the calendar year beginning after the Agreement was signed.
> The Grand Luxxe Agreements make it clear that all the Addenda (and there are always some) cease to exist once the member resells the property. You can only sell or buy what is in the Agreement - at least for those agreement signed in the last few years.
> Finally these Agreements state that to sell a Registered week the buyer must get approval from the GL management and no approval will be given until 10 times the yearly maintenance fee is paid to the GL. (some early contacts that have not been upgraded in the past few years have a lesser number of years).
> It would be a good idea to check the language of the Grand Luxxe Agreements you are offering or being offered before you sell or buy; particularly Clauses section 6 of the Registered Weeks Agreement and section 10 C. of the Residence Weeks Agreement.



Vida has learned over the years how to squash the resale market.  And if the squash doesn't work, to hugely profit from the resale.

In fact, the reduced resale units are probably preferred by them since they chop off the Residence weeks and all the extra benefits and get 10 MF's  for the simple computer name changes!!  What a deal.

You would think that with all the money GL buyers have put in, they would be at least be able to market their purchase more attractively so to recoup some of their original investment should they decide to sell.

Instead, Vida gets a big profit while the original owner gets little for the sale.

Unless you are willing to use your GL buy for the life of the contract, think hard about what you will get if you decide to sell.

Ron


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## mikenk (Mar 16, 2014)

To be honest, from a business perspective, I would probably do the same thing. As a timeshare developer, the fact that timeshare resales anywhere are worth very little would squash retail sales except to those unaware of the true value. From the developer perspective, setting high transfer costs and removing benefits is a reasonable tactic to combat this situation. 

From a timeshare owner's perspective, the fair countermeasures are no MF unless you use and very flexible transfer mechanisms for personal transfers. This works for me as there is really no incentive to sell; our kids and GK's all want to inherit the rights. 

As I understand, new sales do not include the No MF unless you use clause. That changes the equation totally from a fairness perspective. New owners would have a liability that they would struggle to ever get rid of.

Mike


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## drguy (Mar 16, 2014)

I have been told several times that Vida real estate will market and sell "used" Vida properties.


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## rpennisi (Mar 16, 2014)

drguy said:


> I have been told several times that Vida real estate will market and sell "used" Vida properties.



And then they get 30 or more per cent for doing the sale.  Smart move for them, however, have you ever heard of anyone using Vida real estate to sell their unit?

Mike, what about those whose kids and GK's don't want the inheritance?  Must happen if GL folks are selling so soon after the original purchase for pennies or nothing on the dollar.

I don't know, because if that business perspective is good sounding, then I must be naive to the business world.


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## mikenk (Mar 16, 2014)

Ron,

In my experience, people dump timeshares to get away from the MF yearly obligation. Why else would they basically give them away? Assuming a GL owner has the 'no MF unless they use' contract, why in the world would they give something away that costs them nothing to keep? I also know no kids (certainly none of mine) that would not joyfully accept my GL timeshare with free golf, massages, and only pay if you use. 

Not sure I understand your last comment. However, if I was the owner of the GM complex of resorts, I would do everything I could to keep my units out of the totally depressed timeshare resale market. Trying to sell something for 60K or more when people can get the exact same thing for next to nothing is not logically a sustainable sales strategy. A high transfer fee and stripping away benefits in a third party sale does that to some degree. Certainly, from the perspective of Tuggers who want bargains, that is a bad policy - but just looking at it from the other side.

Mike


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## rpennisi (Mar 16, 2014)

mikenk said:


> Ron,
> 
> In my experience, people dump timeshares to get away from the MF yearly obligation. Why else would they basically give them away? Assuming a GL owner has the 'no MF unless they use' contract, why in the world would they give something away that costs them nothing to keep? I also know no kids (certainly none of mine) that would not joyfully accept my GL timeshare with free golf, massages, and only pay if you use.
> 
> ...



Mike,
Thanks for the explanation.  I understand your point of view better now.
Ron


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## drguy (Mar 16, 2014)

I don't know if people are using Vida Real Estate agents to sell their units because it is a relatively new enterprise for them.  I'd wait a few years before I would dare to make a statement pro or con about this potential.  I just know that I have been told that it is available. I don't need the service, so I don't feel that significant due diligence on my part is in order to report what I have heard.


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## traveler36 (Mar 17, 2014)

*Are you permitted to rent Grand Luxxe Residence weeks?*

When we purchase  time at the Grand Luxxe we sign two Agreements - one for the Registered Week(s) and another for the Residence Weeks.Normally for every Registered Week use we pay for we also receive use of two Residence Weeks. The Residence Weeks Agreement make it clear that what we are paying for is only the Registered Week(s) and the Residence Weeks are without cost to us.  In the Residence Weeks Agreement, which is not a confidential document, it states in item 10 C. that this program is not intended for any rental, resale or commercial purpose. 
My question is does this language in the Residence Weeks Agreement prohibit the rental of a member's residence weeks?


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