# Owner Update and HGV Max



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

So we are in Hawaii right now and staying at the Bay Club. We went to the owner's update today because I wanted to hear about the Diamond updates and get discounted tickets for the Luau. A big part of the update was about HGV Max. They said that we don't need to do anything if we don't want to have access to the Diamond properties and the program will stay the same but if you do, then you need to join HGV Max. There are many more properties with that acquisition than just HGVC plus the Diamond properties use less points per stay so you gain nights per year. The cost to join is about $50k and will not be deeded unless you modify your existing ownership in some way then you are automatically in during this grand father period.

We have our Tuscany property that we bought in 2003 from the HGVC and then we have 2 gold Blvd properties that we bought last year via resales for about $6k total. They offered us the original sale price for the resales, which was about $45k as a trade in toward a platinum 2 bedroom at Kahola Suites, which was $70k, so we could pay the difference. This purchase could do three things for us: get us into Max, give us Elite status, and reduce our maintenance a little. He advised us not to trade in the Tuscany since we only paid $15k for it on 2003. If we went that route, then the combined point change would require going into the new preferred points structure and be a lot more expensive versus keeping the Tuscany and just selling the Blvds in the previous point structure.

The interesting thing is the offer of the original price paid for the resale. When I bought them, I didn't even ask about that but now that I see how HGVC is treating them for "upgrades" it is worth getting a cheap resale that had a high original purchase price and using it toward getting into Max. He told me that there is no guarantee that they will take a resale though and that they are going to start devaluing resales and limiting benefits. He also said that the elite benefits are being updated and the ones that he talked about the most are the ability to book 10 months out, no reservation fees for any reservations, and access to other elite only benefits like the King's Land pool of you are at Kahola or Bay Club.


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 5, 2022)

So you trade 2 gold Blvd and $25k for 1 plat at Kohala? How many points pa, and what's the MF?


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

And they would toss in 12,500 bonus points


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

letsgobobby said:


> So you trade 2 gold Blvd and $25k for 1 plat at Kohala? How many points pa, and what's the MF?



Yes. 5,000 x 2 (16,000 total new points) for the Blvds with a maintenance of a little over $1,800 total and the Kohala is 9,600 (15,360 new points) with a maintenance of $1,683.

Also the club fees are going up to $281.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Yes. 5,000 x 2 (16,000 total new points) for the Blvds with a maintenance of a little over $1,800 total and the Kohala is 9,600 (15,360 new points) with a maintenance of $1,683.
> 
> Also the club fees are going up to $281.



I think the $281 is the new MAX club fee. On the FB page a link has been posted to a Club Reference page that indicates the new fee’s, including a $7,000 initiation fee to join MAX without a points purchase. If this is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it isn’t, I can feel secure passing on future owner updates. If I want a particular resorts in DRI, I’ll pick up enough DRI trust points on the resale market and get the 13 month booking window instead of the 6 month booking window for HVC properties afforded by MAX.


----------



## dayooper (Apr 5, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I think the $281 is the new MAX club fee. On the FB page a link has been posted to a Club Reference page that indicates the new fee’s, including a $7,000 initiation fee to join MAX without a points purchase. If this is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it isn’t, I can feel secure passing on future owner updates. If I want a particular resorts in DRI, I’ll pick up enough DRI trust points on the resale market and get the 13 month booking window instead of the 6 month booking window for HVC properties afforded by MAX.



That $7000 number is correct. Here is a screenshot of the reference page from my account.



Here’s another statement from the reference page about resale.





Does this mean if you own resale you can’t be part of HGVMax or does it mean the purchase doesn’t qualify?

To me, it doesn’t matter. We won’t buy from the developer nor will we pay $7000 to join. I’m really disappointed in HGV, but not surprised. The desire to soak owners for even more money is too great. There will be plenty of people who will join and they will make their money, but all of the speculation a year ago was correct, this merger is a negative for many owners.


----------



## BingoBangoBongo (Apr 5, 2022)

dayooper said:


> That $7000 number is correct. Here is a screenshot of the reference page from my account.View attachment 50833
> 
> Here’s another statement from the reference page about resale.
> 
> ...



Just a guess but I’d read it and the fee schedule above to read that if you’re a retail owner you pay $7000 to get in.  If you’re all resale you need to buy a deed from them to be eligible?  

Im at a resort now and all retail.  There was a 30k point Hilton offer on my reservation page prior to coming but we haven’t been contacted yet.  Our check in was at 3am Sun am so that might play into that.  Im not too interested in going to one at the moment but will update if I do get invited and go.


----------



## dayooper (Apr 5, 2022)

BingoBangoBongo said:


> Just a guess but I’d read it and the fee schedule above to read that if you’re a retail owner you pay $7000 to get in.  If you’re all resale you need to buy a deed from them to be eligible?



That’s how I read it. Resale owners can’t join or need to purchase a developer deed to play. If this is the case, will they close the Scotland loophole?


----------



## PigsDad (Apr 5, 2022)

dayooper said:


> That’s how I read it. Resale owners can’t join or need to purchase a developer deed to play. If this is the case, will they close the Scotland loophole?


Or do the Scotland / SW FL purchases count as "retail", since you are buying through a HGV agent?  After all, they did count toward Elite and Elite qualification only counts retail-only purchases.

Kurt


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Or do the Scotland / SW FL purchases count as "retail", since you are buying through a HGV agent? After all, they did count toward Elite and Elite qualification only counts retail-only purchases.


I have the same question.    I haven't seen any information on it.    It would be a cheaper way, including getting more pts.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

I am also waiting to hear from DRI members to see what their booking window into HGV will be (6 month mark?).    Also, what will be their cost to join.


----------



## brp (Apr 5, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> If I want a particular resorts in DRI, I’ll pick up enough DRI trust points on the resale market and get the 13 month booking window instead of the 6 month booking window for HVC properties afforded by MAX.



This. There is a small subset of places we'd really want, and they are in the same collection, so this should work for us.

Cheers.


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 5, 2022)

Marriott "lite"?


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

@HuskerATL Thanks for the update. If you attend I would be interested in understanding how HGV Max operates i.e. what kind of booking window priority? Are Embarq resorts included without HGV Max or without? what kind of points trades ratios into properties like Sedona and Cabo Azul?

$7k is a bit steep but that's the cost of a decent resale all in. We own a retail unit and may be inclined to upgrade for $10k for another deed if they could throw the Max fee into the deal and we could get Elite designation plus bonus points. More than $10k I am more likely to buy a Diamond or HGV resale. Could also go the Scottish route.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Or do the Scotland / SW FL purchases count as "retail", since you are buying through a HGV agent? After all, they did count toward Elite and Elite qualification only counts retail-only purchases.



I found this in the club rules.   Just wondering if the Scotland and Florida and Breckenridge HGVC resales from the HGV sales agent are *NOT* HGV Max authorized sales centers.
​_i Initial Membership. Persons who purchase an ownership interest at a Hilton Grand Vacations resort from an HGV Max authorized sales center and join Hilton Grand Vacations Club after launch of HGV Max shall automatically receive HGV Max benefits._​


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

This is also an important part of the rules change:





This is what we have heard so to me you aren't really getting much of a benefit since you will only be getting the "left-overs" from DRI.   I assume that DRI members with HGV Max will also be able to book HGVC resorts (HC?) at the 6-month mark.   This would mean that at < 6 months, bookings in HGVC will be much tighter.    

I am also curious to see how the CI/Embarc resorts are integrated.    We have previously heard that these resorts will be rebranded as HGVC.


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 5, 2022)

Hmm....

HGVC club annual fee $193
HGV Max annual fee $281

Total fee = $471? 
Don't know, speculating.

If so, makes my unconverted to anything Bay Club look not so bad at $1758 MF.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

Hmm...$7k and 6 months leftovers? If true, for the few times we plan to use it we could probably do better renting and get the exact view we want.

If Max can be thrown into a reasonable upgrade deal for a new deed where we get more HGV points and Elite, maybe not so bad. However this would require relinquishing our current deeds and I doubt they could do better MF/point than that.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Hmm....
> 
> HGVC club annual fee $193
> HGV Max annual fee $281
> ...



HGV Max members total club dues will be $281 which includes AI is how I read it.   Having AI would be a nice benefit.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

Interesting. What do they mean by "Unlimited Home Resort Priority" if you don't own bHC?

If we already pay for Inclusive Fees as part of bHC, does that mean that HGV Max is included?


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 5, 2022)

GT75 said:


> HGV Max members total club dues will be $281 which includes AI is how I read it.   Having AI would be a nice benefit.
> 
> View attachment 50874


 For the urbanites among us, I wonder what the "by Hilton Club" Priority is?


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

I found the two following HGV Max additional benefits which I hadn't heard about before.    I don't believe they will be worth upgrading because they are side benefits but I am sure that the sales force will highlight them:


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 5, 2022)

The six month window is a deal breaker. We're interested in the nicer, more in demand places like Zihua, Whistler, etc, and no way do I anticipate good availability at six months based on the DRI board. 

Seems like the solution is the same as for the HGVC high demand locations: buy where and when you want to go. 

Direct ownership at DRI and HGVC , would the points be combinable and equivalent in other ways?


----------



## linsj (Apr 5, 2022)

GT75 said:


> I found the two following HGV Max additional benefits which I hadn't heard about before.    I don't believe they will be worth upgrading because they are side benefits but I am sure that the sales force will highlight them:
> 
> View attachment 50879
> 
> ...


Notice the use of the word _may_ instead of _will_ in these statements. Reading them as an editor, I assume these could be possibilities but are not guarantees, which gives HGVC room to _not_ offer these benefits--but gives sales people something to entice buyers.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Hmm....
> 
> HGVC club annual fee $193
> HGV Max annual fee $281
> ...


bHC fees are not additive to Club fees. Since HGV Max is included in the bHC AI fee, it appears that those paying bHC fees are already paying for this.

Wonder if already paying bHC AI gets grandfathered access?  Probably wishful thinking but would love to have some HGV recognition for higher bHC costs. Plus it would support the bHC brand promise of a higher tier.

IMO...I am glad they are putting things in writing. The "mays" are probably legalese. Just as MVC painfully learned about mandatory resale Vistana in deeds, I believe they are careful of avoiding lock-in and providing options for future program enhancements. I imagine that Club rules have similar wording.


----------



## brp (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Wonder if already paying bHC AI gets grandfathered access?  Probably wishful thinking but would love to have some HGV recognition for higher bHC costs. Plus it would support the bHC brand promise of a higher tier.



Well, for those of us with resale bHC paying the bHC AI fee, pretty sure we're not getting access to anything except the already-included removal of fees and bHC windows. No DRI for us.

Cheers.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I think the $281 is the new MAX club fee. On the FB page a link has been posted to a Club Reference page that indicates the new fee’s, including a $7,000 initiation fee to join MAX without a points purchase. If this is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it isn’t, I can feel secure passing on future owner updates. If I want a particular resorts in DRI, I’ll pick up enough DRI trust points on the resale market and get the 13 month booking window instead of the 6 month booking window for HVC properties afforded by MAX.



That makes sense for the $281. He said that we would pay the difference between the $281 and the current club fee this year. So, I assume, just the $281 moving forward for folks in Max.


That is interesting for the $7,000 because he clearly said and wrote down the $50k and no deeds. You would just buy points moving forward and not get deeds. So maybe he meant after the grand father and buying into Max...


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

dayooper said:


> That $7000 number is correct. Here is a screenshot of the reference page from my account.View attachment 50833
> 
> Here’s another statement from the reference page about resale.
> 
> ...



He did say once you are in Max, you can buy resale to add to your point total but that didn't seem to align to what you posted.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

BingoBangoBongo said:


> Just a guess but I’d read it and the fee schedule above to read that if you’re a retail owner you pay $7000 to get in.  If you’re all resale you need to buy a deed from them to be eligible?
> 
> Im at a resort now and all retail.  There was a 30k point Hilton offer on my reservation page prior to coming but we haven’t been contacted yet.  Our check in was at 3am Sun am so that might play into that.  Im not too interested in going to one at the moment but will update if I do get invited and go.



He did comment to me that the only reason that we were having this discussion was because we had the Tuscany that was bought directly from them. If we only had the resale Blvds, they wouldn't have the meeting. So, you need to have a developer purchase to have the meeting but they will "upgrade" resales in that meeting.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

dayooper said:


> That’s how I read it. Resale owners can’t join or need to purchase a developer deed to play. If this is the case, will they close the Scotland loophole?



I asked about Scotland and he didn't have a good answer about that. He has worked for them for 19 years and acted like that was a new conversation so, I think that is a good loophole but will also depend on if you want to be Elite and if the point totals get you there.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

PigsDad said:


> Or do the Scotland / SW FL purchases count as "retail", since you are buying through a HGV agent?  After all, they did count toward Elite and Elite qualification only counts retail-only purchases.
> 
> Kurt



It sounded like it did from my conservation with him. Because, I said, "why pay $25k when I can buy a nice chunk of points for about $8k from Scotland". He said it would work but then I would have 4 MFs and that we should think long term than short.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I think the $281 is the new MAX club fee. On the FB page a link has been posted to a Club Reference page that indicates the new fee’s, including a $7,000 initiation fee to join MAX without a points purchase. If this is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it isn’t, I can feel secure passing on future owner updates. If I want a particular resorts in DRI, I’ll pick up enough DRI trust points on the resale market and get the 13 month booking window instead of the 6 month booking window for HVC properties afforded by MAX.
> [/QUOT
> 
> If you are Elite, you can get 10 month reservation window though but not as far out as DRI


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

Exa


Ralph Sir Edward said:


> Marriott "lite"?



Exactly. They are restructuring to be points based instead of deeds. The new Chief Innovation Officer came from Marriott and the sales person commented that they are following the Marriott model moving forward.


----------



## escanoe (Apr 5, 2022)

I suspect over time they will remove the AI option for bHC and go for an upsell on HGV Max. 




CalGalTraveler said:


> bHC fees are not additive to Club fees. Since HGV Max is included in the bHC AI fee, it appears that those paying bHC fees are already paying for this.
> 
> Wonder if already paying bHC AI gets grandfathered access?  Probably wishful thinking but would love to have some HGV recognition for higher bHC costs. Plus it would support the bHC brand promise of a higher tier.
> 
> IMO...I am glad they are putting things in writing. The "mays" are probably legalese. Just as MVC painfully learned about mandatory resale Vistana in deeds, I believe they are careful of avoiding lock-in and providing options for future program enhancements. I imagine that Club rules have similar wording.


----------



## brp (Apr 5, 2022)

escanoe said:


> I suspect over time they will remove the AI option for bHC and go for an upsell on HGV Max.



Definitely a possibility, albeit an unpleasant one. I hope that they'll let HGVC-only folks stay as is and we just don't get to play in the DRI pool via the combined program.

Cheers.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

The other selling point for Max that he pushed was the extra buying power from the HGVC side for DRI properties. The example that he gave was our 2 Blvd 5,000 properties that would yield about 14 nights per year. In Max and using DRI properties, we would get an additional 9 days per year due to the 1.6x point bump for HGV owners.


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Exactly. They are restructuring to be points based instead of deeds. The new Chief Innovation Officer came from Marriott and the sales person commented that they are following the Marriott model moving forward.



It will be most interesting for the affiliates. The affiliates have the ROFR, not HGVC. Unlike Marriott, which had no affiliates. Bay Club, in particular has a longer non HGVC booking window for non-HGVC owners. 12+ months to 23 months. (Booking is open in December for the <next> year, which means a window of up to a year (depending) before the "home week" HGVC window.)


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> The other selling point for Max that he pushed was the extra buying power from the HGVC side for DRI properties. The example that he gave was our 2 Blvd 5,000 properties that would yield about 14 nights per year. In Max and using DRI properties, we would get an additional 9 days per year due to the 0.6x point bump for HGV owners.



So can we assume that the new 1.6x points values match to DRI points?  If so what does a week in prime season at the following resorts cost in new HGVC points?

KBC
Point@Poipu
Cabo Azul
Sedona Summit
Tahoe


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

Ralph Sir Edward said:


> It will be most interesting for the affiliates. The affiliates have the ROFR, not HGVC. Unlike Marriott, which had no affiliates. Bay Club, in particular has a longer non HGVC booking window for non-HGVC owners. 12+ months to 23 months. (Booking is open in December for the <next> year, which means a window of up to a year (depending) before the "home week" HGVC window.)



They did say that existing deeds will not be impacted but new people would be points not deeds. I assume non-HGVC affiliate owners will be business as usual with options to buy in.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> They did say that existing deeds will not be impacted but new people would be points not deeds. I assume non-HGVC affiliate owners will be business as usual with options to buy in.



Well if that isn't an incentive to buy resale weeks. We won't buy trust points - don't trust them - not protected under state real estate laws. Allows for too many games.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> So can we assume that the new 1.6x points values match to DRI points?  If so what does a week in prime season at the following resorts cost in new HGVC points?
> 
> KBC
> Point@Poipu
> ...



I asked that question and he said no and that we would have more buying power in DRI due to the increase, hence the 9 more nights per year if you use DRI instead of HGVC in Max. I have not stayed in a DRI property so I can't speak to the cost comparison in points.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I asked that question and he said no and that we would have more buying power in DRI due to the increase, hence the 9 more nights per year if you use DRI instead of HGVC in Max. I have not stayed in a DRI property so I can't speak to the cost comparison in points.



Thanks. Sound like salesman double-speak. Maybe 9 more nights in a dumpy resort?   We need to understand the trading ratios for the key resorts.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

And some changes in the HH conversion to 1 to 16 except a few resorts that are 1 to 32.


----------



## brp (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> And some changes in the HH conversion to 1 to 16 except a few resorts that are 1 to 32.



That just accounts for the 60% increase in points. Net HH points are still the same before and after.

Cheers.


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> :We need to understand the trading ratios for the key resorts.


That, and a lot more before I'd give them even $700 much less $7000 (plus I'm resale only so my guess is they try to get me to change out my Lagoon and Marbrisa for an overpriced developer week at Grand Islander for the privilege).

I'm perfectly happy with what I have, didn't expect and don't need access to Embarc or other DRI certainly not going to switch to retail prices to do it. So far it looks like they're not going to mess with the current program too much and that's the most important thing.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

brp said:


> That just accounts for the 60% increase in points. Net HH points are still the same before and after.
> 
> Cheers.


They showed me the before and after and they are close but not exact


----------



## magmue (Apr 5, 2022)

> what does a week in prime season at the following resorts cost in new HGVC points?
> 
> KBC
> Point@Poipu
> ...


Pulled this from the TUG DRI sub-forum - it's the membership guide to Destination Exchange: "For North American Traditional Deeded Week Owners"


----------



## bizaro86 (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> It sounded like it did from my conservation with him. Because, I said, "why pay $25k when I can buy a nice chunk of points for about $8k from Scotland". He said it would work but then I would have 4 MFs and that we should think not long term than short.



I would encourage people not to do this.

If enough people tell sales they aren't buying because cheap Scotland resales count, HGVC will kneecap that in some way.


----------



## magmue (Apr 5, 2022)

So Point at Poipu for example, where we recently purchased a week. If I am understanding correctly, a deeded owner at another DRI resort who wants to trade in to Point at Poipu either needs to have the same "tier" deed, or pay an upgrade fee in addition to the exchange fee.


----------



## IAMBIGK (Apr 5, 2022)

Who is this Max guy everyone is talking about?

Seriously though...my concern is what happens to a newly built property by Hilton? Does that property go under the New Max Program and only Max Owners will have access? Or does that go into the HGVC Program? Basically...are CURRENT HGVC Members stuck forever with only the current properties as of today? Or will they continue to add properties? Is Max just an added benefit similar to the Elite Benefits or is this a totally new program and the "Legacy HGVC Members" are being phased out?


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

IAMBIGK said:


> Seriously though...my concern is what happens to a newly built property by Hilton? Does that property go under the New Max Program and only Max Owners will have access? Or does that go into the HGVC Program? Basically...are CURRENT HGVC Members stuck forever with only the current properties as of today? Or will they continue to add properties? Is Max just an added benefit similar to the Elite Benefits or is this a totally new program and the "Legacy HGVC Members" are being phased out?


Good question, but we don't know what happens moving forward.     First I would wait until we see how the dust here.     Secondly, per the current new rules this HGV Max doesn't transfer to new owners.


----------



## brp (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> They showed me the before and after and they are close but not exact



Is it more than the difference between 32 and 50/1.6 (31.25) or 16 and 25/1.6 (15.625)? My understanding was that this amount of rounding error was all we  were supposed to see. Not that I would ever exchange 

Cheers.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

IAMBIGK said:


> Who is this Max guy everyone is talking about?
> 
> Seriously though...my concern is what happens to a newly built property by Hilton? Does that property go under the New Max Program and only Max Owners will have access? Or does that go into the HGVC Program? Basically...are CURRENT HGVC Members stuck forever with only the current properties as of today? Or will they continue to add properties? Is Max just an added benefit similar to the Elite Benefits or is this a totally new program and the "Legacy HGVC Members" are being phased out?



I can't answer all of that but it sounded like you only need to join Max if you want access to DRI. The salesperson also commented that they aren't going to build many new facilities any longer because it is cheaper and quicker to acquire existing but new purchases would move to points instead of deeds and the Elite program is independent from Max since you can be in it whether you are in Max or not. They are restructuring the Elite program though and it won't be called that. It will be premium, premium plus, etc. and the point structures are changing with more categories and with a pre-elite and a 100,000 point category.


----------



## NiteMaire (Apr 5, 2022)

brp said:


> This. There is a small subset of places we'd really want, and they are in the same collection, so this should work for us.


Yep.  Unless grandfathered and/or included in a purchase from developer, I don't see a rush of HGVC owners opting to pay it.  I would imagine the same if the buy-in is similar for DRI owners.


CalGalTraveler said:


> We own a retail unit and may be inclined to upgrade for $10k for another deed if they could throw the Max fee into the deal and we could get Elite designation plus bonus points.


I can't remember where I read it, but I recall reading that if you opt-in/pay the initiation, your entire portfolio is converted to HGV Max.  This could be a bad thing depending on the initial inventory in HGV Max (unless you still have the normal access within HGVC).  @HuskerATL any mention of having to convert entire ownership to Max if owners join?


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

brp said:


> Is it more than the difference between 32 and 50/1.6 (31.25) or 16 and 25/1.6 (15.625)? My understanding was that this amount of rounding error was all we  were supposed to see. Not that I would ever exchange
> 
> Cheers.



I didn't do the math but just saw the overall numbers. He asked me if I wanted any of those "demo" papers and I should have taken them but I was ready to get out of there. The numbers were close though and he commented that they were actually better for us.... Take that for what it is...


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

NiteMaire said:


> Yep.  Unless grandfathered and/or included in a purchase from developer, I don't see a rush of HGVC owners opting to pay it.  I would imagine the same if the buy-in is similar for DRI owners.
> 
> I can't remember where I read it, but I recall reading that if you opt-in/pay the initiation, your entire portfolio is converted to HGV Max.  This could be a bad thing depending on the initial inventory in HGV Max.  @HuskerATL any mention of having to convert entire ownership to Max if owners join?



Oh no! My impression is that you would have access to the same inventory as everyone else. I hope this isn't another separate trust inventory mess like MVC DP or Sheraton Flex where you only have access to "HGV Max enrolled trust inventory."  If true, this could be a deal killer because it will take years to build and you will only see limited inventory.


----------



## NiteMaire (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Oh no! My impression is that you would have access to the same inventory as everyone else. I hope this isn't another separate trust inventory mess like MVC DP or Sheraton Flex where you only have access to "HGV Max enrolled inventory."  If true, this could be a deal killer because it will take years to build and you will only see limited inventory.


I don't know and updated my post to reflect "unless you still have the normal access within HGVC" (apparently at the same time you were typing this).  I wonder if it's spelled out in the new rules.
I promise I'm not trying to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

NiteMaire said:


> Yep.  Unless grandfathered and/or included in a purchase from developer, I don't see a rush of HGVC owners opting to pay it.  I would imagine the same if the buy-in is similar for DRI owners.
> 
> I can't remember where I read it, but I recall reading that if you opt-in/pay the initiation, your entire portfolio is converted to HGV Max.  This could be a bad thing depending on the initial inventory in HGV Max (unless you still have the normal access within HGVC).  @HuskerATL any mention of having to convert entire ownership to Max if owners join?



My assumption when talking to him is that all your points would be in Max but I didn't ask that question. I did think it was interesting that they are pushing us away from resales but, they told us that once you are in Max, you can buy resales to add to the point total.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Oh no! My impression is that you would have access to the same inventory as everyone else. I hope this isn't another separate trust inventory mess like MVC DP or Sheraton Flex where you only have access to "HGV Max enrolled trust inventory."  If true, this could be a deal killer because it will take years to build and you will only see limited inventory.



He drew three circles on a piece of paper with a small circle representing HGVC and another circle representing DRI with arrows for both pointing to a circle representing Max. If you are in Max, you get access to all of HGVC and DRI but if you choose not to, you stay within the smaller circles. He said that DRI has 75% of the total inventory of Max so the benefit for HGVC members is more inventory at lowered costs.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> He drew three circles on a piece of paper with a small circle representing HGVC and another circle representing DRI with arrows for both pointing to a circle representing Max. If you are in Max, you get access to all of HGVC and DRI but if you choose not to, you stay within the smaller circles. He said that DRI has 75% of the total inventory of Max so the benefit for HGVC members is more inventory at lowered costs.


That is an  interesting comment. Was he saying:

1) you needed to relinquish your weeks deeds and get land trust points to own instead (similar to MVC Dest points or Sheraton Flex)

Or

2) you keep your deeds but at some date you opt to convert your HGVC to Max points for the use year. Similar to MVC weeks enrollment

Or

3) something different?

Sorry to pepper you with questions. If you don't know that's fine. You've shared a lot of info. We may need a few more people to attend presentations "for the team" to fully understand this program!


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> That is an  interesting comment. Was he saying:
> 
> 1) you needed to relinquish your weeks deeds and get land trust points to own instead (similar to MVC Dest points or Sheraton Flex)
> 
> ...



He told me that we do not lose our deeds. He commented that he also has deeds but after Max is started, they will move to points (UBI) for new members. I don't know what would happen if a person joined Max later, with only points, and then bought a resale. We decided to do the "upgrade" from the 2 resale gold Blvds to the platinum Kahola and will have a deed for it and will be in Max plus Elite. He told me that they will send me a Max packet so I can update everyone when I get it. I did email him some more questions and can add more updates when he responds.


----------



## NiteMaire (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> He drew three circles on a piece of paper with a small circle representing HGVC and another circle representing DRI with arrows for both pointing to a circle representing Max. If you are in Max, you get access to all of HGVC and DRI but if you choose not to, you stay within the smaller circles.


I have a question outside of those @CalGalTraveler has asked.
As expected and drawn for you, Max get access to HGVC and DRI.  We now know access to DRI access comes at the 6-month point before checkin.  I presume you maintain ability to reserve at your home resort (those with deeds), but how many months prior to checkin are you allowed to reserve at (non-home) HGVC resorts?  Same question for owners that will only own points.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 5, 2022)

GT75 said:


> HGV Max members total club dues will be $281 which includes AI is how I read it.   Having AI would be a nice benefit.
> 
> View attachment 50874



yes it would, but not with that $7,000 up front fee. They’ll here me laughing in every corner of the sales room if they think I’m paying $7,000 up front for an AI membership fee


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

NiteMaire said:


> I have a question outside of those @CalGalTraveler has asked.
> As expected and drawn for you, Max get access to HGVC and DRI.  We now know access to DRI access comes at the 6-month point before checkin.  I presume you maintain ability to reserve at your home resort (those with deeds), but how many months prior to checkin are you allowed to reserve at (non-home) HGVC resorts?  Same question for owners that will only own points.



According to the presentation yesterday, 9 months but 10 months if you are Elite.


----------



## NiteMaire (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> According to the presentation yesterday, 9 months but 10 months if you are Elite.


Thanks. I was just coming back to post that I found some info on another thread.  That's in line with this post (granted it's not for all HGVC) https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/hgv-max-in-the-club-reference-guide.336677/post-2762722
To summarize:  If you join HGV Max, it appears your reservation window is shorter than HGVC owners (as expected).  Yes, you gain access to DRI, but you lose part of your reservation window (outside of your home resort).


----------



## GMan82 (Apr 5, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> yes it would, but not with that $7,000 up front fee. They’ll here me laughing in every corner of the sales room if they think I’m paying $7,000 up front for an AI membership fee


At $7000, and $59 saved per reservation (assuming no change in fee for simplicity), it would take 119 reservations to break even. At 3 reservations per year, you’re just shy of 40 years to recoup that cost just on the AI alone. So I think the AI is just a carrot to entice people into the program who eschew fees. A selling point. So really you’re paying for access to the DRI resorts at the 6 month mark. 

Now, if it’s true as implied in a post above mine that by joining HGV Max, you move from the Club 9-month window to the Max 6-month window even for your home program (assuming HGV here), that to me might be a red flag. I hope that’s not true.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> According to the presentation yesterday, 9 months but 10 months if you are Elite.



Whoa - This is a new twist. So are they saying that if you are Elite (aka developer purchase) you get club access at 10 months instead of 9? Did you see this in writing?

FWIW, I am not sure how this would even work because it would conflict with home resort reservations. Could be the sales rep talking...


----------



## brp (Apr 5, 2022)

GMan82 said:


> Now, if it’s true as implied in a post above mine that by joining HGV Max, you move from the Club 9-month window to the Max 6-month window even for your home program (assuming HGV here), that to me might be a red flag. I hope that’s not true.



Hadn't contemplated that with all this info. Pretty sure that they can't (in terms of uproar) do that. I'd guess that some notion of "home program" has top exist. Well, at least for existing contracts. Wonder if new ones would be bought without a "home program" designation. That would be bad.

Cheers.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Whoa - This is a new twist. So are they saying that if you are Elite (aka developer purchase) you get club access at 10 months instead of 9? Did you see this in writing?


Yes, I would want to see that in writing.    I don't see it in the updated rules for elite benefits, unless this applies.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 5, 2022)

NiteMaire said:


> I presume you maintain ability to reserve at your home resort (those with deeds), but how many months prior to checkin are you allowed to reserve at (non-home) HGVC resorts? Same question for owners that will only own points.


Currently, it is 9-month for MOST HGVC resorts (there are exceptions and this doesn't apply to HC resorts).   Currently, HGVC is deeded (no trust points).    I expect that to remain with DRI being trust points.     Now, I know that in post #64, the poster stated what was heard on the sales presentation.    I would want to see that in writing.



NiteMaire said:


> To summarize: If you join HGV Max, it appears your reservation window is shorter than HGVC owners (as expected). Yes, you gain access to DRI, but you lose part of your reservation window (outside of your home resort).


No, I don't see it that way.    I believe HGVC members will still have the same booking windows in HGVC if they join HGV Max (but I see how you have come to that conclusion.)   Refer to the new rules:


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 5, 2022)

Yeah opening at 10 months to anyone else (elite, max, etc) seriously devalues my existing deeds. Would make it very hard at nine months to get into high demand weeks/locations.


----------



## frank808 (Apr 5, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> yes it would, but not with that $7,000 up front fee. They’ll here me laughing in every corner of the sales room if they think I’m paying $7,000 up front for an AI membership fee


It is not full AI. Just the club reservation fee. Still have to pay to bank points, guest certificates (after the free ones), trade for HH points, etc. I needed AI, so just bought a bHC deed. Cheaper than $7K and you get some points to use.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Whoa - This is a new twist. So are they saying that if you are Elite (aka developer purchase) you get club access at 10 months instead of 9? Did you see this in writing?
> 
> FWIW, I am not sure how this would even work because it would conflict with home resort reservations. Could be the sales rep talking...



We asked him multiple times and he said that is one of the new perks coming up to the program and a selling point for getting to elite. You would have a month longer than others for reservations. That is one change and another is no reservation fees at all. Currently, it is 7 day reservations that have a no reservation fee for elite but that is changing to no fees for any reservation length.


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 5, 2022)

frank808 said:


> It is not full AI. Just the club reservation fee. Still have to pay to bank points, guest certificates (after the free ones), trade for HH points, etc. I needed AI, so just bought a bHC deed. Cheaper than $7K and you get some points to use.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk



I’ll just say that I’m VERY happy that we made the decision to increase our Marriott ownership and leave our Hilton ownership with just the one week we have. For that matter it’s now debatable if the decision we made to upgrade our EOY Karen Ave deed to an EY LV Strip deed was the right move.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 5, 2022)

dougp26364 said:


> I’ll just say that I’m VERY happy that we made the decision to increase our Marriott ownership and leave our Hilton ownership with just the one week we have. For that matter it’s now debatable if the decision we made to upgrade our EOY Karen Ave deed to an EY LV Strip deed was the right move.



Huh? MVC invented the 13 month reservation advantage for multiple properties and Elite and they are requiring a $20 - 30k buy in with very expensive DP points. They require $3 /pt for resale and are further stripping mandatory resales from participating in latest program. MF are much more expensive than HGVC for similar quality.

YMMV perhaps if you are already heavily  invested and  grandfathered it makes sense. For us, we are leaning more toward HGVC bc we are less than 2k old points from elite. Will use HGVC for trading and just use or rent out our Westin week.


----------



## Nowaker (Apr 5, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> They require $3 /pt for resale and are further stripping mandatory resales from participating in latest program. MF are much more expensive than HGVC for similar quality.


This matches my findings from this fall when I was researching timeshares.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 6, 2022)

dayooper said:


> That $7000 number is correct. Here is a screenshot of the reference page from my account.View attachment 50833
> 
> Here’s another statement from the reference page about resale.
> 
> ...



I sent an email to the sales person about the $7,000, since it wasn't mentioned in our presentation, and here is his response. 

"It was a pleasure meeting you guys yesterday and I hope you are enjoying your stay. We don't have to pay that $7k Max fee during this grandfathering period. At this point, I don't know who this fee will apply to or what purchase requirements are needed in the future. The Club has not given us any specific information. However, they did mention that resales do not qualify for any future Max options. We anticipate additional information by the 3rd quarter. I hope this helps!"


----------



## WORLD TRAVELER (Apr 6, 2022)

I spent time reading the the member guide in depth this evening and it appears that Club Members are being divided into 4 Groups - 1. Members (Resale purchase not through HGVC Authorized Retail/Resale Channels) who purchase an ownership interest after the Max Program announcement, 2. HGV Club Legacy Members (Retail or Resale) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max Program Announcement, 3. HGV Club Max Legacy Members (Retail/Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max announcement and who then purchased a Max Program membership through either upgrading their ownership by adding additional weeks or trading in existing owned weeks to purchase additional points or paid the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the $199 per Interval (Week) Activation Fee in lieu of purchasing and upgraded interest through HGVC, 4. HGV Club Max members who purchase an interest (Retail) after announcement of the Max program through HGVC Authorized Retail Channels.

In the current version of the Club Member Manual, the General Member (not HGVC Legacy, HGV Max Legacy, or HGV Max members) is limited in converting the future Club Points to Hilton Honor points on an Every Other Year basis.  There is also mention in the Manual that Open Season usage may be restricted but the exact restriction is not specified like the Hilton Honors conversion is.  General Members (and those current HGV Club Legacy Members who didn't purchase through an HGVC Authorized Sales Channel) are also not allowed to join the HGV Club Max program as they did not purchase an Interest directly through HGVC.

Those existing Retail Members (or Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who trade in their weeks and upgrade their points or purchase an additional week of points would not have to pay the $7000 Initiation Fee.  Those existing Retail Members (or who purchased Resale through HGVC Authorized Channels) who want to join HGVC Max without upgrading or purchasing additional points, would pay the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the Activation Fee of $199 per existing Interval (week) owned.

Moving forward it will be interesting to see what further restrictions are put in place on 'Resale Purchasers' and how that will affect the Resale Market for HGVC Ownership.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 6, 2022)

Thanks World Traveler for the info. So, for us, we are in the category of owning retail and resale. We traded in our resale properties for a new retail property so we will pay the $199 inventory activation fee and the $281 Max club fee but it will only be the difference between our current club fee and this since they are paid. The $7,000 fee is waived. We needed the retail to even have the option for Max but could trade the resales at the original purchase price value toward a new retail property. That transaction put us in Max and gave us Elite.


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 6, 2022)

WORLD TRAVELER said:


> I spent time reading the the member guide in depth this evening and it appears that Club Members are being divided into 4 Groups - 1. Members (Resale purchase not through HGVC Authorized Retail/Resale Channels) who purchase an ownership interest after the Max Program announcement, 2. HGV Club Legacy Members (Retail or Resale) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max Program Announcement, 3. HGV Club Max Legacy Members (Retail/Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max announcement and who then purchased a Max Program membership through either upgrading their ownership by adding additional weeks or trading in existing owned weeks to purchase additional points or paid the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the $199 per Interval (Week) Activation Fee in lieu of purchasing and upgraded interest through HGVC, 4. HGV Club Max members who purchase an interest (Retail) after announcement of the Max program through HGVC Authorized Retail Channels.
> 
> In the current version of the Club Member Manual, the General Member (not HGVC Legacy, HGV Max Legacy, or HGV Max members) is limited in converting the future Club Points to Hilton Honor points on an Every Other Year basis.  There is also mention in the Manual that Open Season usage may be restricted but the exact restriction is not specified like the Hilton Honors conversion is.  General Members (and those current HGV Club Legacy Members who didn't purchase through an HGVC Authorized Sales Channel) are also not allowed to join the HGV Club Max program as they did not purchase an Interest directly through HGVC.
> 
> ...



Actually there is another category. Owners at an affiliate resort that are not currently HGVC members. What restrictions will be placed on them, in terms of availability, will be interesting.


----------



## Almond123 (Apr 6, 2022)

I own a week at a affiliate and don’t mind going there as it is a floating week. How would they be able to restrict a floating week?


----------



## Ralph Sir Edward (Apr 6, 2022)

Almond123 said:


> I own a week at a affiliate and don’t mind going there as it is a floating week. How would they be able to restrict a floating week?


The same way Marriott does for weeks owners. Who gets priority? Does the week owner get "first crack" or does the "trust" get first crack at weeks? If the latter, then the floating week's owner get the leftovers, after the trust get what it wants. 

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 6, 2022)

WORLD TRAVELER said:


> I spent time reading the the member guide in depth this evening and it appears that Club Members are being divided into 4 Groups - 1. Members (Resale purchase not through HGVC Authorized Retail/Resale Channels) who purchase an ownership interest after the Max Program announcement, 2. HGV Club Legacy Members (Retail or Resale) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max Program Announcement, 3. HGV Club Max Legacy Members (Retail/Resale Members who purchased through HGVC Authorized Channels) who owned an interest in HGV Club prior to Max announcement and who then purchased a Max Program membership through either upgrading their ownership by adding additional weeks or trading in existing owned weeks to purchase additional points or paid the $7000 Initiation Fee plus the $199 per Interval (Week) Activation Fee in lieu of purchasing and upgraded interest through HGVC, 4. HGV Club Max members who purchase an interest (Retail) after announcement of the Max program through HGVC Authorized Retail Channels.
> 
> In the current version of the Club Member Manual, the General Member (not HGVC Legacy, HGV Max Legacy, or HGV Max members) is limited in converting the future Club Points to Hilton Honor points on an Every Other Year basis.  There is also mention in the Manual that Open Season usage may be restricted but the exact restriction is not specified like the Hilton Honors conversion is.  General Members (and those current HGV Club Legacy Members who didn't purchase through an HGVC Authorized Sales Channel) are also not allowed to join the HGV Club Max program as they did not purchase an Interest directly through HGVC.
> 
> ...


It sounds like a Legacy member like me will have basically the same program as before. No loss of any real benefits, no access to new DRI resorts. I'm ok with that. Just don't screw up the booking windows too much by giving Max or Elite earlier access to club season. That seriously dilutes the value of my deeds. If that does come to pass and access to my preferred resorts goes down I will definitely dump my trader and just keep our home resort week, where we go every year.

What happens if I buy a bHC property now (after April 4), do I get access to Max as bHC owner? Again, not that I really need it.


----------



## NiteMaire (Apr 6, 2022)

letsgobobby said:


> Just don't screw up the booking windows too much by giving Max or Elite earlier access to club season.


Max is 6 months prior to checkin for both HGVC and DRI owners who join.


----------



## brp (Apr 6, 2022)

NiteMaire said:


> Max is 6 months prior to checkin for both HGVC and DRI owners who join.



So here's a part of this that doesn't make sense to me, and the question has surfaced elsewhere.

Owning HGVC, I have 9 months al all locations (except bHC). Owning DRI gives, I think, something like 13 months. All good.

Now I join max, hypothetically. Would I still get 9 months in *all* my HGVC locations? Or, if DRI, would I get the 13 there? What if, after joining Max, I buy a DRI property. Do I now get DRI benefits within DRI and still have my 9 months in HGVC? Would all HGVC points (now and future) have 9 months at HGVC; all DRI points have 13 months at DRI. And the only time that 6 months would apply is if I were truly "crossing" points, i.e. I had used all my DRI points and wanted to use some native HGVC points for a DRI location?

Basically, do points carry forward their native program privileges and only resort to 6 months on "crossover?"

I think we don't know definitively. At least I don't.

Cheers.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 6, 2022)

@brp. Great questions! Plus more DRI buckets to manage beyond the 4 identified within HGV.

Beyond DRI Clubpoints, what happens if you buy a DRI deeded week and you are already enrolled in HGV Max with HGV properties? Can you convert your weeks to points for 6 mo reservations in HGV/combine with HGV? or must you use DEX only to trade?

They better publish an FAQ soon!


----------



## brp (Apr 6, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> They better publish an FAQ *encyclopedia *soon!



Fixed that for you 

Cheers.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 6, 2022)

brp said:


> So here's a part of this that doesn't make sense to me, and the question has surfaced elsewhere.
> 
> Owning HGVC, I have 9 months al all locations (except bHC). Owning DRI gives, I think, something like 13 months. All good.
> 
> ...



I sent the salesperson that I have been working with the question about the 9/10 months for clarification and will post his response. When we were going through the Max info in the presentation, he never mentioned the 6 month window and only talked about the 9 month window and then getting the extra month (10 months) when becoming elite.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 6, 2022)

@HuskerATL Thanks for asking the rep these questions. Did you ever find out if HGV Max inventory is placed in a separate trust from the regular HGV/DRI inventory? i.e. Is this a separate trust inventory system like Marriott Destination Points or Sheraton Flex (i.e. only as good as the people who participate and deposit their ownerships) or is it  simply access to existing inventory pools in both HGV and DRI at the respective windows (much better because you have access to all availability in each system).


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 6, 2022)

I sent the sales person an email about the 10 month reservation window and his response is below. BTW, the Elite program is being restructured and renamed with more categories. The new name for our category of Elite is Preferred Plus. I don't remember the break points but we have 23,360 points.

"The Loyalty Search Request is due to you being both a Preferred Plus member (Elite)and part of Max. It applies to both Resort types."


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 6, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @HuskerATL Thanks for asking the rep these questions. Did you ever find out if HGV Max inventory is placed in a separate trust from the regular HGV/DRI inventory? i.e. Is this a separate trust inventory system like Marriott Destination Points or Sheraton Flex (i.e. only as good as the people who participate and deposit their ownerships) or is it  simply access to existing inventory pools in both HGV and DRI at the respective windows (much better because you have access to all availability in each system).



I will ask but my impression, from what he was telling us, is that it is the latter part of what you wrote. He said there will be a new website and that it will give us access to both inventories. He didn't say a subset of the inventories.


----------



## primeg (Apr 6, 2022)

How and where do you find a bHC deed?


----------



## PigsDad (Apr 6, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I sent the sales person an email about the 10 month reservation window and his response is below. BTW, the Elite program is being restructured and renamed with more categories. The new name for our category of Elite is Preferred Plus. I don't remember the break points but we have 23,360 points.
> 
> "The Loyalty Search Request is due to you being both a Preferred Plus member (Elite)and part of Max. It applies to both Resort types."


I saw the new Elite levels that someone posted on FB.  They are basically just renaming the existing levels and adding a new top level at that requires 100,000 points.  For reference, the existing top level of Elite Premier requires 55,000 points, so that is a huge jump to the new top level.

Kurt


----------



## dougp26364 (Apr 6, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Huh? MVC invented the 13 month reservation advantage for multiple properties and Elite and they are requiring a $20 - 30k buy in with very expensive DP points. They require $3 /pt for resale and are further stripping mandatory resales from participating in latest program. MF are much more expensive than HGVC for similar quality.
> 
> YMMV perhaps if you are already heavily  invested and  grandfathered it makes sense. For us, we are leaning more toward HGVC bc we are less than 2k old points from elite. Will use HGVC for trading and just use or rent out our Westin week.



Keep in mind we purchased our Marriott deeds many years ago and added DC points using bundle programs that decrease the cost per point drastically. To buy into either program at current rates can be rather expensive. The decision to expand Marriott ownership instead of Hilton was made nearly 20 years ago and before their Destination Club. For us, it has turned out to be the right decision. Hilton is a great product but offers very little in variety of locations and had convoluted rules going from HGVC to bHC and now DRI with the $7,000 buy in and the poor 6 month booking window.


----------



## Nowaker (Apr 6, 2022)

Repaste from HGVC Owners on FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/HGVCowners/permalink/1023696005231861/ - an email from a salesperson on HGV Max with Elite. *Bold* is mine on relatively interesting things. 


1) One of the obvious benefits is increasing you vacation portfolio from 56 resorts to 150 resorts worldwide. As I mentioned, we are in the process of rebranding and upgrading many of the former Diamond locations to ensure they meet the quality our owners are accustomed to. Rest assured that we will not put our Hilton name on it until it meets or exceed our HGV Resort criteria.

*2) "Loyalty Search Requests" As a Centum HGV Max member, you'll be able to request a specific reservation for location, room type and dates and have up to 7 active searches at one time. You can request up to 10 months out.   Then at 9 months the owners with the highest status will have first priority for that reservation. Centum owners will be first and Premier Plus will be 2nd.*

3) When you decide to go on a cruise, Centum members can now pay for up to 40% of your cruise cost with your points and we will give you .40 cents per point. For example, if a cruise cost was $10,000 for a 7-night cruise.  You can use up to 10,000 Club Points at .40 cents a point to take $4,000 off and you would pay the remainder of $6,000.  As a Premier Plus owner, you can pay for up to 30% of your cruise at .30 cents per point. My wife and I cruise, and I can tell you that this is HUGE! You're basically getting 30%-40% off by using your points and you don't have to spend that many points!

4) Luxury Homes.  Centum and Premier Plus members can access Luxury homes and villas in desirable destinations worldwide. Members can see available homes in real time and use Club Points to secure a reservation online.

*5) $700-$1,000 Open Season credit. Every year you'll receive $700 (Premier Plus) or $1,000 (Centum) in credit to reserve HGV Max resorts world-wide.*

6) 10% Hilton Honors hotel discount.  As a Centum or Premier Plus HGV Max member, you'll have your own portal to reserve a Hilton hotel and you'll always get 10% off the lowest available rate.

7) $250- $350 annual Lyft credit. You'll now receive a $350 credit on the Lyft app every year to take care of your transportation to and from the airport when you travel.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 6, 2022)

Thanks Nowaker. So it sounds like the 10 month priority is only for Centum Elite (100k+) points and Premier plus (???).  If that is the case there are not many HGV customers who will reach that level (we will never invest that much - we'd rather buy a wholly owned condo that will appreciate in value and provide tax benefits) so perhaps requalifying for a lower end HGV Elite is not worth it if there is no 10 month priority for that level and little competition.

Do the HGV new points values go 1:1 with Diamond club points? if so it won't go far on Diamond with properties at the 15,000 - 21,500 range for a week in Hawaii.


----------



## Nowaker (Apr 6, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> So it sounds like the 10 month priority is only for Centum Elite (100k+) points and Premier plus (???)


Yeah, and it's not really a 10 month priority. Rather, it's a 10 month out search request, with an automatic booking happening at 9 months out, if one is available.

This is kinda clever on their part. They're not changing any rules for existing owners, technically! We walkers do book right at midnight 9 months out too, right?! Well, now software on HGVC side will do it for highest HGV Maxers too - but worse. We walkers book an earlier date and walk it forward. Their system will book a select date period only - but if we continue to walk a rez one night at a time before our sought-after period, we still get what we want, ahead of HGV Max with high elite tiers.

In other words, Loyalty Search Requests sounds like a 10 months priority, and can be used as a selling point for retail deeds, but in practise, is probably worthless. Lol.


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 6, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> Yeah, and it's not really a 10 month priority. Rather, it's a 10 month out search request, with an automatic booking happening at 9 months out, if one is available.
> 
> This is kinda clever on their part. They're not changing any rules for existing owners, technically! We walkers do book right at midnight 9 months out too, right?! Well, now software on HGVC side will do it for highest HGV Maxers too - but worse. We walkers book an earlier date and walk it forward. Their system will book a select date period only - but if we continue to walk a rez one night at a time before our sought-after period, we still get what we want, ahead of HGV Max with high elite tiers.
> 
> In other words, Loyalty Search Requests sounds like a 10 months priority, and can be used as a selling point for retail deeds, but in practise, is probably worthless. Lol.


I'm less sanguine. Those automatic ressies will fill immediately when the clock strikes midnight. Us manual bookers will be disadvantaged.

But it also seems true, depending on the final details, that the number of eligible elites will be quite small, so the real impact should be minimal.


----------



## Nowaker (Apr 7, 2022)

letsgobobby said:


> Those automatic ressies will fill immediately when the clock strikes midnight. Us manual bookers will be disadvantaged.



That puts you, a manual clicker, at a disadvantage only if you want to book your target booking, e.g. 12/24-31 the moment when the last day of your booking becomes bookable (within booking period of 274 days, or whatever the number is). You normally don't do that if you want a highly contested date. At the very minimum, you will book 12/24-27 when 12/27 releases, then add days. Or better yet, you will book 12/15-18, and then walk it forward. Therefore, we are not affected at all, because we do not book 12/24-31 when 12/31 becomes bookable. We book earlier, then walk it. No change for us. No advantage for them.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

A bit more info about what the Preferred+ and Max members get.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thanks Nowaker. So it sounds like the 10 month priority is only for Centum Elite (100k+) points and Premier plus (???).  If that is the case there are not many HGV customers who will reach that level (we will never invest that much - we'd rather buy a wholly owned condo that will appreciate in value and provide tax benefits) so perhaps requalifying for a lower end HGV Elite is not worth it if there is no 10 month priority for that level and little competition.
> 
> Do the HGV new points values go 1:1 with Diamond club points? if so it won't go far on Diamond with properties at the 15,000 - 21,500 range for a week in Hawaii.



It is for other levels in the new program also. See the info sheet that the salesperson sent me today for our level. But it is not just elite. He said it is for people who are in elite and Max.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 7, 2022)

@HuskerATL Maybe I am overlooking but I don't see the 10 month reservation listed as a benefit? 

Are you saying that MAX owners get 10 month benefit too? If this benefit includes lower level elites then there is cause for concern because there are a lot more owners.

@Nowaker what you described for 10 month makes sense. Now I see how this doesn't run over the home week reservations at 10 months. 

TUGers are the best!


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @HuskerATL Maybe I am overlooking but I don't see the 10 month reservation listed as a benefit?


It is the Loyalty Request Tool but he didn't explain it as just a search tool that won't book until 9 months. He clearly stated that we could book at 10 months. Even in my follow email. See below when I asked about booking home week and with loyalty request tool:

"Yes 12 month for Home Week and 10 month Loyalty Search for the rest."


----------



## SmithOp (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @HuskerATL Maybe I am overlooking but I don't see the 10 month reservation listed as a benefit?


It's the Loyalty Search Request, and only one at that. It's a request at 10 months that is filled at 9 months.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 7, 2022)

I think they can walk just like the rest of us and have a loyalty search kick in on the final day.


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 7, 2022)

But I'm in wait and see mode, no panic. It will take time for this to play out. My trader cost $1200 with free closing so my risk is pretty low.


----------



## SmithOp (Apr 7, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> That puts you, a manual clicker, at a disadvantage only if you want to book your target booking, e.g. 12/24-31 the moment when the last day of your booking becomes bookable (within booking period of 274 days, or whatever the number is). You normally don't do that if you want a highly contested date. At the very minimum, you will book 12/24-27 when 12/27 releases, then add days. Or better yet, you will book 12/15-18, and then walk it forward. Therefore, we are not affected at all, because we do not book 12/24-31 when 12/31 becomes bookable. We book earlier, then walk it. No change for us. No advantage for them.


If they are smart then the request will be a 3 day, possibly before their desired dates, that is then walked.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk


----------



## NiteMaire (Apr 7, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> 1) One of the obvious benefits is increasing you vacation portfolio from 56 resorts to 150 resorts worldwide. As I mentioned, we are in the process of rebranding and upgrading many of the former Diamond locations to ensure they meet the quality our owners are accustomed to. Rest assured that we will not put our Hilton name on it until it meets or exceed our HGV Resort criteria.
> 
> *2) "Loyalty Search Requests" As a Centum HGV Max member, you'll be able to request a specific reservation for location, room type and dates and have up to 7 active searches at one time. You can request up to 10 months out. Then at 9 months the owners with the highest status will have first priority for that reservation. Centum owners will be first and Premier Plus will be 2nd.*


I have several questions. Which inventory will Loyalty Search Requests apply to?  How much unsold inventory will move to HGV Max.  Will 100% of unsold inventory move to HGV Max?  Will it be split to keep some unsold HGVC resort inventory in HGVC? Will some DRI unsold inventory be kept for DRI owners who don't covert?  Will inventory be in multiple Clubs simultaneously on a first come, first served basis (like at the 6-month point)? Will we ever know the answer to these questions?



CalGalTraveler said:


> Are you saying that MAX owners get 10 month benefit too? If this benefit includes lower level elites then there is cause for concern because there are a lot more owners.


Same here. 10 month benefit to which inventory?  Only HGV Max, or HGV Max and HGVC?


----------



## WORLD TRAVELER (Apr 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> A bit more info about what the Preferred+ and Max members get.
> 
> View attachment 51018


It's too bad that Villas of Distinction is being removed from the new program!  For Elites it was a nice benefit to use points from multiple years to gain access to luxury properties and private rental homes that would normally cost thousands of dollars to rent on the open market and be able use our points to access these properties for a few hundred dollars. It seems like we're gaining access to additional properties but then losing out on other benefits that we had access to. It makes me question if Elites don't join Max, then will the existing Elite perks just disappear or will we receive these new Elite perks instead to use within our Legacy HGVC program?


----------



## Nowaker (Apr 7, 2022)

NiteMaire said:


> Which inventory will Loyalty Search Requests apply to?


Since it's a request at 10 months that gets booked at 9 months, it's implied it's HGVC inventory, not DRI.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> Since it's a request at 10 months that gets booked at 9 months, it's implied it's HGVC inventory, not DRI.



According to the sales person, it is for both. Everything available to Max.


----------



## Eric B (Apr 7, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> 4) Luxury Homes. Centum and Premier Plus members can access Luxury homes and villas in desirable destinations worldwide. Members can see available homes in real time and use Club Points to secure a reservation online.



This one makes me smile because I've been booking luxury homes using resale ownerships in other TS systems for several years now by going through a third party exchange system.  Doing it that way allows me to make prudent reservation choices for deposits of week stays that minimize my costs rather than relying on a direct booking at preset point valuations.


----------



## dayooper (Apr 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> According to the sales person, it is for both. Everything available to Max.



That would be against the 6 month timeframe of the HGV Max booking window. Not saying it’s not correct, but that’s not how I read it.


----------



## dayooper (Apr 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> It is the Loyalty Request Tool but he didn't explain it as just a search tool that won't book until 9 months. He clearly stated that we could book at 10 months. Even in my follow email. See below when I asked about booking home week and with loyalty request tool:
> 
> "Yes 12 month for Home Week and 10 month Loyalty Search for the rest."


 
10 month loyalty search isn’t a clear statement on being able to book at 10 months to me. If what @Nowaker posted is correct, you would get 1 10 month search window that books automatically for you. Again, I could be very wrong here.


----------



## escanoe (Apr 7, 2022)

I am a bit curious in the next few months the people that go to an HGVC presentation, buy into HGV Max, then discover TUG before the rescind period expires ..... will they have the same rescind rate they have in the past?

In my view, they should still rescind .... but I suspect this will muddy the water a fair amount for the purchases made with vacation brains.


----------



## escanoe (Apr 7, 2022)

dayooper said:


> 10 month loyalty search isn’t a clear statement on being able to book at 10 months to me. If what @Nowaker posted is correct, you would get 1 10 month search window that books automatically for you. Again, I could be very wrong here.



If you set a search like that to book the first 3 days of a vacation, it could be useful for booking the FL affiliates or ski weeks where there is not always/usually a clear guide path to walking a reservation. Not $7,000 useful to me .... but useful.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 7, 2022)

I previously thought that this new HGV Max program was only allowing DRI and HGVC/HC cross-over bookings.    Now, it looks like HGV is also taking the opportunity to make changes to the HGVC side mainly in elite levels benefits.   I still believe that we will need to wait until the new rules changes are disseminated before making any changes.    I would certainly want to hear from the collective TUG group.    Early information that we have received so far seems to indicate that the changes aren't worth much if anything.    Basically, they look good on paper at a sales presentation but won't be helpful to owners.   I still believe the changes are only for sales.
Just my thoughts.


----------



## iiderman (Apr 7, 2022)

GT75 said:


> I previously thought that this new HGV Max program was only allowing DRI and HGVC/HC cross-over bookings.    Now, it looks like HGV is also taking the opportunity to make changes to the HGVC side mainly in elite levels benefits.   I still believe that we will need to wait until the new rules changes are disseminated before making any changes.    I would certainly want to hear from the collective TUG group.    Early information that we have received so far seems to indicate that the changes aren't worth much if anything.    Basically, they look good on paper at a sales presentation but won't be helpful to owners.   I still believe the changes are only for sales.
> Just my thoughts.


Fine with me as long as those “HGV side elite levels” are only changed for the better.  From what I am reading HGV max owners with their own elite levels will have better benefits (some of which will dilute current HGV elite members benefits). It is still unclear to me if this 10 months loyalty search is only for Max elite or Hgvc elite as well.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 7, 2022)

iiderman said:


> It is still unclear to me if this 10 months loyalty search is only for Max elite or Hgvc elite as well.


I am not sure either.     I think that it is too early to tell.


----------



## brp (Apr 7, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> Yeah, and it's not really a 10 month priority. Rather, it's a 10 month out search request, with an automatic booking happening at 9 months out, if one is available.



In practice, I'd guess that this will be more like "9 months and a couple of hours" making it not materially different from 10 months as far as the rest of us are concerned. When we can book it will be gone. Quite sure that this is how WN Early Bird works - 24 hours plus a few seconds/minutes.

Cheers.


----------



## brp (Apr 7, 2022)

GT75 said:


> I previously thought that this new HGV Max program was only allowing DRI and HGVC/HC cross-over bookings.    Now, it looks like HGV is also taking the opportunity to make changes to the HGVC side mainly in elite levels benefits.   I still believe that we will need to wait until the new rules changes are disseminated before making any changes.



Yup. The distinction between within-program impacts and crossover program rules are the big deal to me. Since crossover is new, it's blue ocean for them. Somewhat more red ocean in making changes within program due to potential impacts for within-program points. The whole 6 month thing for *General Members* is one that I mentioned before, and there are some others.

Cheers.


----------



## NiteMaire (Apr 7, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> Since it's a request at 10 months that gets booked at 9 months, it's implied it's HGVC inventory, not DRI.





HuskerATL said:


> According to the sales person, it is for both. Everything available to Max.





dayooper said:


> That would be against the 6 month timeframe of the HGV Max booking window. Not saying it’s not correct, but that’s not how I read it.


I lean toward what @Nowaker and @dayooper are stating.  Also, there was a document released for DRI owners (I realize this is HGVC forum) which supports this stance.
It states: "Booking Window: Same great access and booking window in DRI THE Club network (ie., at 10 months for Standard and Gold.  11 months for Platinum and Centum), with access to HGV resorts 6 months before arrival."  Here's a link to the document if you'd like to look at it for comparison: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/hgv-max-for-dri-owners-initial-incomplete.336734/
The early access applies to owner's THE Club with access to HGV Max given at 6 months.  I don't see them giving one Club priority access to HGV Max.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 7, 2022)

dayooper said:


> That would be against the 6 month timeframe of the HGV Max booking window. Not saying it’s not correct, but that’s not how I read it.



I read this differently. I believe he is saying that if you are an HGV Max *and HGV owner* you get 10 month booking* into HGV properties* (6 month into DRI). No Elite status needed (?)

@HuskerATL Are you saying that Max without elite points level allows 10 month bookings? If Max access at 10 months without elite points is true. I am in for $7k with our one retail purchase.

FWIW.. (not directed at HuskerATL) If new HGV points translate to Diamond Club 1:1 the better values will be on the HGV side e.g. Lagoon at 15360 for a 2 bdrm OF vs. 21,500 for OF at P@P week.  They seem to have priced the DRI properties along the lines of the newer HGVs so we may not be trading into Diamond much at all with our measly points. However @HuskerATL rep indicated that you can add resales later.

This may be our plan to get the points needed to trade for these higher values. This will also enable HGV to continue to have a healthy resale market and avoid deedbacks/walking. In some ways this may be their mental equivalent to the $3 resale fee MVC charges for resale points i.e. resales are okay but if you want to play in the trading system, you need to pay our HGV Max fee or your options will be limited to mostly using what you own. With MVC it is harsher - you cannot play at all unless you pay their $3 / point tax.

I hope HGV Max allows open season at DRI properties.

I could envision Diamond owners going after the better value HGV units and older HGV properties will not be possible after 6 months. Goodbye Open season for these properties. The 1:1 conversion now makes sense because DRI Club owners are paying a factor higher in MF than HGV so they are giving them more points.


----------



## brp (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I read this differently. I believe he is saying that if you are an HGV Max *and HGV owner* you get 10 month booking* into HGV properties* (6 month into DRI). No Elite status needed (?)
> 
> If Max access to 10 months is true. I am in for $7k with our one resale purchase.  Can buy more resale later to build points.



This is a different interpretation from what I've seen. But we shall see what it really means. Devil is in the details.

Cheers.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 7, 2022)

Nowaker said:


> 2) "Loyalty Search Requests" As a Centum HGV Max member, you'll be able to request a specific reservation for location, room type and dates and have up to 7 active searches at one time. You can request up to 10 months out. Then at 9 months the owners with the highest status will have first priority for that reservation. Centum owners will be first and Premier Plus will be 2nd.


I read the original FB post where @Nowaker got this.    We have two different salespersons statements on this topic.     I tend to agree with this salesperson above.  It just fits with current booking windows.  To me, if HGV was going to change the booking windows in HGVC, they won't need the "Loyalty Search Request".    But like always, let's wait to see it in writing first.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 7, 2022)

GT75 said:


> I read the original FB post where @Nowaker got this.    We have two different salespersons statements on this topic.     I tend to agree with this salesperson above.  It just fits with current booking windows.  To me, if HGV was going to change the booking windows in HGVC, they won't need the "Loyalty Search Request".    But like always, let's wait to see it in writing first.



I have no doubt this is true. My questions are whether this 10 month window extends to lower level elites and also to just HGV Max buyer.  Agree, the devil is in the details.  I am hesitant to get this from a rep because they will say whatever will sell more.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

dayooper said:


> That would be against the 6 month timeframe of the HGV Max booking window. Not saying it’s not correct, but that’s not how I read it.



I read that also but, according to him, that is a perk of being both elite and max. He told us that both in person and email.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I have no doubt this is true. My questions are whether this 10 month window extends to lower level elites and also to just HGV Max buyer.  Agree, the devil is in the details.  I am hesitant to get this from a rep because they will say whatever will sell more.


Agreed. Take it for what it is... From a rep but, I will say, he has been the best that we have worked with. Didn't push anything, seems very knowledgeable, been with HGV for 19 years, and has continued to answer our emails.

He did say that the perk was because we were both elite and max so only Max people wouldn't get it. We are in the preferred + category so second from the bottom.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @HuskerATL Are you saying that Max without elite points level allows 10 month bookings? If Max access at 10 months without elite points is true. I am in for $7k with our one retail purchase.



No, according to him, only people that are both elite and max get the 10 month window with the Legacy Request Tool but for us, only 1 each year since we are only Preferred +.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 7, 2022)

Thanks for clarifying @HuskerATL so now I am back to trying to figure out how to get to elite to get 10 month bookings. 1/year for Preferred makes me wonder if bottom end elite gets any 10 month booking


----------



## dayooper (Apr 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> No, according to him, only people that are both elite and max get the 10 month window with the Legacy Request Tool but for us, only 1 each year since we are only Preferred +.



I think this is the correct interpretation. The only question is if the booking will be made at 10 months or 9 months with the higher status getting the week. 

Another question to throw his way. Can you only book a week at a time or can you book any number of days?


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

dayooper said:


> booking will be made at 10 months or 9 months with the higher status getting the week.



I sent him a clarifying email about whether it allows setting up a search at 10 and auto booked at 9 or actually booking at 10 months. We will see what his response is.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Thanks for clarifying @HuskerATL so now I am back to trying to figure out how to get to elite to get 10 month bookings. 1/year for Preferred makes me wonder if bottom end elite gets any 10 month booking



Depending on where you are at, the Scotland properties look like a good route. I was just looking at their sales and maintenance and it isn't too bad. For me, by trading in our two Blvd resales, it allowed us to reduce our number of maintenances, hit preferred +, and be in Max. Will it be worth it in the end? Who knows... But we will see. I do like the Kohala Suites that we bought though.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 7, 2022)

@hustkerATL. Agreed. we have resales to trade in and a retail unit to trade up so will also explore those option during our next sales visit. If it is not much more than other routes, we may opt to requalify our resales via the sales office.

However, having to go to second tier Elite to get 10 month may be a showstopper for us. May just get HGV Max and see what happens. I am willing to blow $7k on table stakes but not $70k on a bunch of unknown inventory and constantly changing benefits. We already have gold Honors elite and AI reservations via bHC so Elite doesn't offer us much. Would like the wristbands but not worth tens of thousands. Also we would need need more points after a trade-in so need to factor in the resale cost.

Less worried if level 2 and above because there will be fewer Elites reserving at 10 months and it will take a long time to roll out HGV Max if they are not reaching out via a mass enrollment. (remember Diamond Max doesn't get a chance until 6 months)

I can already see how reps will use fear to drive sales, but this will take a looong time. I also can see how reps may approach Diamond members to buy an HGV unit (or potentially trade in their Diamond points/deeds)  to get 9 month access in the system.

*How will they separate the Diamond Points from HGV points if a dual owner? If dual owners can combine their points to reserve HGVC at 9 months, this is the real concern.*


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @hustkerATL. Agreed. we have resales to trade in and a retail unit to trade up so will also explore those option during our next sales visit. If it is not much more than other routes, we may opt to requalify our resales via the sales office.
> 
> However, having to go to second tier Elite without 10 month may be a showstopper for us. because incremental value not ther. Less worried because there will be fewer Elites reserving at 10 months and it will take time to roll out HGV Max if they are not doing a mass enrollment. Diamond Max doesn't get a chance until 6 months).



Just to add, they gave us the original purchase price for the Blvds for trade in, even though we only paid $6k total for both so depending on your resales and the retail property that you are looking at, it could be a decent deal. Make sure to go to a regional sales office though since they can sell from any property. I don't know the list of those though. Kingsland and Orlando are but not sure of others.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 7, 2022)

NYC can sell everyhing. Vegas cannot. We will be in NYC soon so may take a presentation.

I have also heard that you can call HGV in Orlando and strike a deal that way with all inventory.


----------



## letsgobobby (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @hustkerATL. Agreed. we have resales to trade in and a retail unit to trade up so will also explore those option during our next sales visit. If it is not much more than other routes, we may opt to requalify our resales via the sales office.
> 
> However, having to go to second tier Elite to get 10 month may be a showstopper for us. May just get HGV Max and see what happens. I am willing to blow $7k on table stakes but not $70k on a bunch of unknown inventory and constantly changing benefits. We already have gold Honors elite and AI reservations via bHC so Elite doesn't offer us much. Would like the wristbands but not worth tens of thousands. Also we would need need more points - resale most cost effective way to accumulate vs. trade-in.
> 
> ...


Like you I think if this is limited to a small number of dual Max/Elite Plus owners the ten month booking doesn't have a great impact and takes a long time to roll out.

But if ten months becomes the new nine months, and we have some kind of miniature nuclear arms race to get to various Elite levels and there's really nothing left at nine months, that's a game changer, and we'll be out for anything but our home weeks. I also agree that would take a long time to play out so I'm not stressing about it today. Having spent the last 72 hours reading these threads and the new rules I still don't know exactly what the impact will be on desirable club bookings exactly at nine months, and probably no one else does, either. 

I'm not going to put up $7k for a product with no deed and no guarantees behind it, especially because as a resale only owner I'd need to pony up for some kind of retail unit. Not going to happen. If I'm going to spend $15-$20k++ it's going to be for more deeded weeks at places I want to go every year.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

Btw, from a FB elite group post of the new point breakdown:

There will now be 5 tiers - 
Tier 1-Preferred (17,000+ Club Points), 
Tier 2-Preferred+ (22,000+ ClubPoints), 
Tier 3-Premier (38,000+ Club Points), 
Tier 4-Premier+ (54,000+ Club Points), 
Tier 5-Centum+ (100,000+ Club Points).
These Club Points include the 1.6x Points Rebalance.


----------



## brp (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> NYC can sell everyhing. Vegas cannot. We will be in NYC soon so may take a presentation.



We are heading to W. 57rh this evening and did not receive a call about an update. It's been a while. Even though we have a retail purchase that we sold back to them, I think our current status as resale-only has caught up with us. And NYC is the only place I'd welcome an update as the perks are worth it.

Cheers.


----------



## CalGalTraveler (Apr 7, 2022)

Thank you. So Tier 1 is new. 10,625 old points. Was 14,000 old points for tier 1. I was already shooting for Tier 2 and didn't know it!  We could requal an existing resale and qualify for Tier 1 because we are over that mark. Now wondering what benefits are in tier 1 vs. tier 2.

@HuskerATL An idea to save money: Could you look at getting into Tier 1 with a less expensive unit and HGV Max? What are their minimums?

@brp.  I am sure they will hit you up when you pick up your Elevated Rewards card at the front desk.  Would love to hear what they say in preso about HGV Max, 10 month reservations, and Tier 1 and 2 elite benefits if you are willing to take one for the team.  Enjoy NYC.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

brp said:


> We are heading to W. 57rh this evening and did not receive a call about an update. It's been a while. Even though we have a retail purchase that we sold back to them, I think our current status as resale-only has caught up with us. And NYC is the only place I'd welcome an update as the perks are worth it.
> 
> Cheers.


That may be why. We had a mix of retail and resale. When we met with the rep at Kingsland, he told us that if we only had resale, we couldn't have had the meeting. But, interestingly, when we first sat down and he pulled up our info, he commented "you have owned Tuscany since 2003 and Blvd since 2010". So, in part of the system it only showed the original sale date and then our ownership. We bought the Blvd last year. Even when we signed our new paperwork, the admin person thought that we had owned Blvd since 2010. I am sure the system knows but they didn't until we told them. I am sure they could have figured it out though.


----------



## brp (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @brp.  I am sure they will hit you up when you pick up your Elevated Rewards card at the front desk.  Would love to hear what they say in preso about HGV Max, 10 month reservations, and Tier 1 and 2 elite benefits if you are willing to take one for the team.  Enjoy NYC.



We actually don't pick up the card. I have a card that we got several years ago with my name on it. It has no expiration date. We've never used it so I don't even bring it anymore. But, even if I did, this one lasts forever. I would not get a new one due to the plastic waste of getting additional, duplicate items.

Now, they also suggest coming down to get 500 HHonors points added, and I might do that to see what they offer...but not another useless piece of plastic 

I also have a feeling that, once they know we're resale they will retract the offer of any perks for the pitch. In that case, I'm out.

Cheers.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @HuskerATL An idea to save money: Could you look at getting into Tier 1 with a less expensive unit and HGV Max? What are their minimums



I haven't seen the perks of the first level but I assume you could.


----------



## natarajanv (Apr 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Btw, from a FB elite group post of the new point breakdown:
> 
> There will now be 5 tiers -
> Tier 1-Preferred (17,000+ Club Points),
> ...



Based on this, 6 Tiers...


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

natarajanv said:


> Based on this, 6 Tiers...
> 
> View attachment 51081


Thanks. Less than 17,000 wouldn't be in the Elite program but it is interesting to see the fee structure by these categories. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)




----------



## Smclaugh99 (Apr 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> Btw, from a FB elite group post of the new point breakdown:
> 
> There will now be 5 tiers -
> Tier 1-Preferred (17,000+ Club Points),
> ...



Very interesting. Currently I am Elite Premier with 58,560 retail points and another 42,000 resale points (after 1.6 adjustment) for total of 100,560. If I don’t join HGV Max, will they maintain the separate Elite Premier benefits? If I do join HGV Max would only the retail points qualify as Premium Plus or would they grandfather the other points?  Looks like I’ll have to do an owner update to find out (going to Orlando next week and Hilton Club the following week). 

I have a hard time believing there are a lot of members with greater than 100,000 retail only points.  That would be 62,500 pre-conversion points and greater than $500k buy in (as a conservative estimate of $8 per point). Yikes.

Sean


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> Very interesting. Currently I am Elite Premier with 58,560 retail points and another 42,000 resale points (after 1.6 adjustment) for total of 100,560. If I don’t join HGV Max, will they maintain the separate Elite Premier benefits? If I do join HGV Max would only the retail points qualify as Premium Plus or would they grandfather the other points?  Looks like I’ll have to do an owner update to find out (going to Orlando next week and Hilton Club the following week).
> 
> I have a hard time believing there are a lot of members with greater than 100,000 retail only points.  That would be 62,500 pre-conversion points and greater than $500k buy in (as a conservative estimate of $8 per point). Yikes.
> 
> Sean



Let us know what you find out. I traded my resale to get in elite and max but you are already in. The salesperson did comment that we could buy resale to add to our point total when in and, if that is true, why couldn't you bring in resale if you already had retail?


----------



## brp (Apr 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> The salesperson did comment that we could buy resale to add to our point total when in and, if that is true, why couldn't you bring in resale if you already had retail?



Question is: Would those resale points contribute to further elite levels if you were already in, or just add to the balance you had and be included in the privileges of the elite level that you had achieved from retail?

Cheers.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 7, 2022)

brp said:


> Question is: Would those resale points contribute to further elite levels if you were already in, or just add to the balance you had and be included in the privileges of the elite level that you had achieved from retail?
> 
> Cheers.


I don't think they would count toward elite but just the point total for club use unless they are resale from a developer.


----------



## brp (Apr 7, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> I don't think they would count toward elite but just the point total for club use unless they are resale from a developer.



That's what I expected. It would have to the case unless they further bucketized things into Retail/Resale...and I don't expect that at all.

Much like, before they separated HGVC and bHC points, anyone who owned a bHC could use *all* points for bHC reservations. Those were the good old days 

Then they made buckets to separate that. But I highly doubt that they'll separate out resale. So, anyone who achieves a proper elite level with retail can add more points via resale and be able to endow them with the elite booking windows.

The "elite counter" would be separate and there retail/resale would matter. At least that's what I expect even after one achieves elite legitimately.

Cheers.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 7, 2022)

brp said:


> The "elite counter" would be separate and there retail/resale would matter. At least that's what I expect even after one achieves elite legitimately.


This is the way that it currently is.


----------



## HuskerATL (Apr 8, 2022)

So, I asked the rep for clarification on the 10 month Legacy Search Request and he punted. See below:

"Every Preferred Member will be contacted over the next couple of months by the Expert Membership Team to explain the Loyalty Search benefits and how to take advantage of it."


----------



## Nowaker (Apr 8, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> "Every Preferred Member will be contacted over the next couple of months by the Expert Membership Team to explain the Loyalty Search benefits and how to take advantage of it."



That... That's a great way to put it. Not!


----------



## ocdb8r (Apr 8, 2022)

brp said:


> Question is: Would those resale points contribute to further elite levels if you were already in, or just add to the balance you had and be included in the privileges of the elite level that you had achieved from retail?
> 
> Cheers.



In the past they did NOT contribute to further elite levels.  Your "level" was determined solely by your retail/direct purchases, but all other points in your account (if bought resale) had the same benefits of your retail/direct determined elite level.


----------



## Smclaugh99 (Apr 8, 2022)

ocdb8r said:


> In the past they did NOT contribute to further elite levels.  Your "level" was determined solely by your retail/direct purchases, but all other points in your account (if bought resale) had the same benefits of your retail/direct determined elite level.


Yes - definitely true. But for the Centum tier in HGV Max, the threshold is >100k points. I find it difficult to think there is more than a tiny pool of people who have/will purchase that many retail points.  However, the pool of owners who own a hybrid retail/resale portfolio with points >100k seems much larger.  Will attempt to find out. But as it stands now, I’m not interested in giving them even $7k more to join HGV Max. The only DRI-owned resorts I’d be interested in are the Embarc (old Club IntraWest) and I’m hoping they get added to the main HGVC portfolio.

Sean


----------



## dayooper (Apr 8, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> Yes - definitely true. But for the Centum tier in HGV Max, the threshold is >100k points.* I find it difficult to think there is more than a tiny pool of people who have/will purchase that many retail points. * However, the pool of owners who own a hybrid retail/resale portfolio with points >100k seems much larger.  Will attempt to find out. But as it stands now, I’m not interested in giving them even $7k more to join HGV Max. The only DRI-owned results I’d be interested in are the Embarc (old Club IntraWest) and I’m hoping they get added to the main HGVC portfolio.
> 
> Sean



They have to be able to sell them something. Without being able to reach the next status level, they have nothing to sell the mega owners. There are people who, if given a goal, will "strive" to reach that mark. That many points (almost double) will keep some people buying and the cash flowing into the HGVC coffers for a long time.


----------



## GMan82 (Apr 8, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> ... The only DRI-owned resorts I’d be interested in are the Embarc (old Club IntraWest) and I’m hoping they get added to the main HGVC portfolio.
> 
> Sean


Are they actually going to rebrand some DRI resorts into HGVC? I remember the thing about HVC vs HGVC, but if re-branded does that mean we non-Max club members would then get regular access to those at the 9 month mark? They’d take it away from the legacy DRI members?


----------



## GT75 (Apr 8, 2022)

Smclaugh99 said:


> The only DRI-owned results I’d be interested in are the Embarc (old Club IntraWest) and I’m hoping they get added to the main HGVC portfolio.


Same here.   I would like something similar to the exchange program we had back in ~2015.    I don't see that happening.    Now, I know that CI/Embarc has their own booking rules which (IMO) need to be maintained for their owners, and of course HGVC has their own also.   But, I would like a fair exchange between the two systems.  We have "heard" that these resorts are being rebranded as HGVC, so in my opinion that should be folded into HGVC (w/o any additional purchase on either part).   If this will require some type of purchase such as HGV Max then we will know that HGV is only trying to make money from current owners in the process.    I really don't have any interest in any of the DRI resorts especially if I need to pay something.


----------



## GT75 (Apr 8, 2022)

GMan82 said:


> Are they actually going to rebrand some DRI resorts into HGVC? I remember the thing about HVC vs HGVC, but if re-branded does that mean we non-Max club members would then get regular access to those at the 9 month mark? They’d take it away from the legacy DRI members?


Same question which we will need to wait until the rules with resorts are rolled out.    We have already heard that all of the CI/Embarc resorts will be rebranded as HGVC (I don't think that I have that wrong but I have messed up HGV, HGVC, HC and HVC before).


----------



## dayooper (Apr 8, 2022)

GMan82 said:


> Are they actually going to rebrand some DRI resorts into HGVC? I remember the thing about HVC vs HGVC, but if re-branded does that mean we non-Max club members would then get regular access to those at the 9 month mark? They’d take it away from the legacy DRI members?



DRI members never had access to Embarc. When DRI purchased Embarc, the owners used a clause in their contract to put up a barrier to DRI. DRI legacy owners wouldn't lose anything as they never had access.

Back in October, there was a letter sent to Embarc owners that said their resorts were of HGVC quality and would be branded as such. Who knows if they will be available to Legacy HGVC members or just HGV Max members?


----------



## dayooper (Apr 8, 2022)

GT75 said:


> Same question which we will need to wait until the rules with resorts are rolled out.    We have already heard that all of the CI/Embarc resorts will be rebranded as HGVC (I don't think that I have that wrong but I have messed up HGV, HGVC, HC and HVC before).



We now have to add HGVM.


----------



## edboyd59 (Apr 8, 2022)

GMan82 said:


> Are they actually going to rebrand some DRI resorts into HGVC? I remember the thing about HVC vs HGVC, but if re-branded does that mean we non-Max club members would then get regular access to those at the 9 month mark? They’d take it away from the legacy DRI members?


Most, if not all, DRI labeling and signage are already being replaced with HGV's version of the same. There are some properties on the lower end of the spectrum that I don't believe have been determined to be up to Hilton standards (no, I don't have those specifics). What they are going to do with those properties is not publicly known at this point, as far as I know. There are a number of properties that have not aged well, and these will be renovated to bring them up to HGV standards before being brought into the fold, as I understand it.

The long end of this is that DRI will no longer exist once the merger process is complete. Everything will be changed over to some form of HGV when all is said and done. The splash screen when the DR site is first opened should provide you with the validation that this is true. Also, any emails that are being sent by DR or its employees used to have [name]@diamondresorts.com as the source, now they all end with @HGV.com. In the minds of corporate, DR already no longer exists.


----------



## dano92009 (Apr 8, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> So we are in Hawaii right now and staying at the Bay Club. We went to the owner's update today because I wanted to hear about the Diamond updates and get discounted tickets for the Luau. A big part of the update was about HGV Max. They said that we don't need to do anything if we don't want to have access to the Diamond properties and the program will stay the same but if you do, then you need to join HGV Max. There are many more properties with that acquisition than just HGVC plus the Diamond properties use less points per stay so you gain nights per year. The cost to join is about $50k and will not be deeded unless you modify your existing ownership in some way then you are automatically in during this grand father period.
> 
> We have our Tuscany property that we bought in 2003 from the HGVC and then we have 2 gold Blvd properties that we bought last year via resales for about $6k total. They offered us the original sale price for the resales, which was about $45k as a trade in toward a platinum 2 bedroom at Kahola Suites, which was $70k, so we could pay the difference. This purchase could do three things for us: get us into Max, give us Elite status, and reduce our maintenance a little. He advised us not to trade in the Tuscany since we only paid $15k for it on 2003. If we went that route, then the combined point change would require going into the new preferred points structure and be a lot more expensive versus keeping the Tuscany and just selling the Blvds in the previous point structure.
> 
> The interesting thing is the offer of the original price paid for the resale. When I bought them, I didn't even ask about that but now that I see how HGVC is treating them for "upgrades" it is worth getting a cheap resale that had a high original purchase price and using it toward getting into Max. He told me that there is no guarantee that they will take a resale though and that they are going to start devaluing resales and limiting benefits. He also said that the elite benefits are being updated and the ones that he talked about the most are the ability to book 10 months out, no reservation fees for any reservations, and access to other elite only benefits like the King's Land pool of you are at Kahola or Bay Club.



Weird coincidence. We also just got a presentation yesterday from the Bay Club and we have Tuscany too.
Our sales guy said that there was only one path to HGV Max - Buy another deeded property. He pushed a few $13K and $16K properties on us.
He never offered to buy properties back (We also own Tuscany, but Scotland too) even though I told him I wished to consolidate to avoid paying fees in dollars, pounds, and euros each year. Now I'm seeing that there is a "simple" $7K fee to pay without any new purchase. Sales people being inconsistent? Shocked!
Until now, I've never bothered with resale, but maybe it is time to start looking at a few. Does anyone have a favorite site that brokers them?

Dan


----------



## Nowaker (Apr 8, 2022)

HuskerATL said:


> He told me that there is no guarantee that they will take a resale though and that they are going to start devaluing resales and limiting benefits.



This is just FOMO to get a sale NOW. Everyone heard about how $x per point is today's price, and next month/quarter/year after some big event, it will be $x * 1.1, so buy now to get the good price, or buy our VIP package to experience the club and secure $x per point price... Yada yada. Or that the only way to join (non-existent! not-promised!) HGV Max it so buy NOW, before April announcement! Yada yada, we already know retail purchases after announcement will qualify you to HGV Max, as well as paying up a one-time $7k fee.

I think their business continuity requires trade-ins as part of selling to existing owners. After all, if an owner is ready to pay HGVC $10k or $20k for something, but does not want to purchase a shitty Studio deed with a terrible MFpp, HGVC must offer a trade-in. Otherwise, HGVC will pass an opportunity to make $10k or $20k, and they never want to pass any opportunity to part you with your money.

Moreover, from a CFO-level point of view, they probably cannot "devalue" old deeds on trade-ins because it would affect their share price. Finance team would not allow to acquire an asset for $10 but put a value of that asset as $15,000 in the balance sheet in the long run. One-time infrequent ROFRs, that's okay, but when it becomes a norm, and there's way way more trade-ins than ROFRs, it would become huge problem. When you acquire 50 deeds for $10 apiece, and you also hold 100 identical unsold deeds that are valued at $15,000 apiece on the balance sheet, you have a big problem, because you have to re-adjust the value for compliance reasons (SEC). Out of a sudden, the value of assets on the balance sheet dips, and so does the share value. Therefore, they must maintain the fiction that their deeds are worth $15,000 apiece for compliance reason. And since their business continuity depends on trade-ins, they cannot devalue said trade-ins.


----------



## GMan82 (Apr 10, 2022)

Another thread mentioned that Sedona would be coming on line for Max soon. On the Hilton hotel website, Sedona summit is mentioned as “Hilton Vacation Club.” I picked a random week in July (16-23 x 7 days) and can get a room for $1280 inclusive of tax. It’s a special rate without the resort fee. How much is the annual MF there? If renting for a week isn’t that much more expensive than the MF, why bother with spending $7k + this supposed $1k per deed to buy into Max, or upgrade a deed for tens of thousands of dollars retail?


----------



## Nowaker (Apr 10, 2022)

GMan82 said:


> $1280 inclusive of tax


And now that is now branded as HVC, it will qualify as 14x pts on Amex Aspire = 17,920 HH pts.


----------

