# Wyndham PIC Program



## gj_travels (Nov 7, 2012)

Went to an informal owners update mtg here at our Wyndham home resort yesterday. My head is still spinning!
They informed us that our PIC week was no longer valid (it is Diamond points system, but still RCI), so we needed to buy additional Wyndham points to maintain VIP Gold status of 500,000 points (i.e., we would still be grandfathered in to new program as VIP Gold). Since we are grandfathered in we would be reduced to VIP and not VIP Gold if we choose not to purchase more points. The price is not attractive, but we did not attempt to negotiate.
They said that RCI (now fully owned by Wyndham) already "knows" our status and we only have VIP and not VIP Gold status with them.
However, our status on Wyndham (web site & ?) is still VIP Gold. "But our audit will catch that soon", they told us.
What gives? We have received NO notice in writing or otherwise of our change of status. If we were grandfathered in to VIP Gold, how can they now renig?
My husband and I are discussing if it is worth it to us to purchase more points or enjoy VIP Gold until the other shoe drops. We definitely don't want to change our ownership to CWA, but seem, for now at least, to have the option of purchasing out of CWA points.
Do we have any recourse here?
Or is this just another sales come on? We have been hearing that our PIC options are "going away" for years now.


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## lcml11 (Nov 7, 2012)

photogirl said:


> Went to an informal owners update mtg here at our Wyndham home resort yesterday. My head is still spinning!
> They informed us that our PIC week was no longer valid (it is Diamond points system, but still RCI), so we needed to buy additional Wyndham points to maintain VIP Gold status of 500,000 points (i.e., we would still be grandfathered in to new program as VIP Gold). Since we are grandfathered in we would be reduced to VIP and not VIP Gold if we choose not to purchase more points. The price is not attractive, but we did not attempt to negotiate.
> They said that RCI (now fully owned by Wyndham) already "knows" our status and we only have VIP and not VIP Gold status with them.
> However, our status on Wyndham (web site & ?) is still VIP Gold. "But our audit will catch that soon", they told us.
> ...



A while ago, I checked with Wyndham, not sales staff, and they had confirmed  what sales is saying.  They are in a multi-year project to identify those PIC contracts that the underlying resort has changed to RCI points and they say at some point, they will not honor the PIC contract.  

I do not know if they have actually taken away PIC benfits at this point for the above reason.  The resort I was calling about has not changed to the RCI Points system, which was the point of my call.  

The sales pitch that Wyndham can walk away from PIC contracts at will has been around for awile at a number of their locations and that the solution is to buy more points from Wyndham.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 7, 2012)

All VIP bebefits are at the whim olf the develper


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## gj_travels (Nov 7, 2012)

We do not own RCI points.


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## gj_travels (Nov 7, 2012)

As far as I can tell the resort we own at does not appear to be part of the RCI points program.
I realize that the VIP benefits are at the whim of the developer. But I have yet to see the new VIP benefits from Wyndham in writing. Have only heard that this and that have "gone away".
But changing the status of your VIP membership without notifying you? Or changng the program all together without notifying you of what the changes are even after they have implemented some of them? This is a new low for us with Wyndham.
Thanks for all your feedback, by the way.


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## lcml11 (Nov 7, 2012)

photogirl said:


> As far as I can tell the resort we own at does not appear to be part of the RCI points program.
> I realize that the VIP benefits are at the whim of the developer. But I have yet to see the new VIP benefits from Wyndham in writing. Have only heard that this and that have "gone away".
> But changing the status of your VIP membership without notifying you? Or changng the program all together without notifying you of what the changes are even after they have implemented some of them? This is a new low for us with Wyndham.
> Thanks for all your feedback, by the way.



If you are still at a resort, check with the Wyndham Sales Office, awhile back, they were handing out a book call "The Good Life"  this book details the current VIP benifits by level.


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## gj_travels (Nov 7, 2012)

I will try that tomorrow. Thanks.


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## massvacationer (Nov 8, 2012)

OP:

There is a good chance that you are being fed a line of bull by a salesperson who needs to make a sale.

I would try to check with corporate Wyndham- and not necessarily believe what the sales folks say.


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## ronparise (Nov 8, 2012)

To be PIC eligible the interval must not be points based and must be affiliated with RCI  

The question has been raised here; What if the resort becomes an RCI points resort?

The answer is as long as you dont convert your week to points,  your week remains PIC eligible

As so often happens, your salesman either doesnt know the system or he is using half truths and exaggeration to scare you into a new purchase


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## tschwa2 (Nov 8, 2012)

From the original post it is a little confusing. 



> (it is Diamond points system, but still RCI)



So it is not an issue of RCI points but Diamond points.  If your week was enrolled in the Diamond points system or became part of The Club, I thought it changed over to II.  The other thing you may have done was to use the same week in Diamonds version of PIC (I forgot what that is called).  If so it is an even grayer area.


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## lcml11 (Nov 8, 2012)

photogirl said:


> I will try that tomorrow. Thanks.



Here is another site for the benifits.

https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/member/help/learningCenter/details.do?id=LIB-0002208


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 8, 2012)

photogirl said:


> Went to an informal owners update mtg here at our Wyndham home resort yesterday. My head is still spinning!
> They informed us that our PIC week was no longer valid (it is Diamond points system, but still RCI), so we needed to buy additional Wyndham points to maintain VIP Gold status of 500,000 points (i.e., we would still be grandfathered in to new program as VIP Gold). Since we are grandfathered in we would be reduced to VIP and not VIP Gold if we choose not to purchase more points. The price is not attractive, but we did not attempt to negotiate.
> 
> 
> ...




I  started hearing VIP eligibility level were going up  about 10 years ago.  Yes, it finally  did go up this year.  Kinda like saying the price of Gold is going up.

Moral of story, stay away from Wyndham sales people!


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## gj_travels (Nov 8, 2012)

I logged onto RCI through RCI.com and not through Wyndham web site (After the "sales" meeting), so my RCI account did look different. That was my mistake.
It appears when I do the latter all is the same (except for the new cosmetic chgs on RCI web site).
I think the whole thing with the meeting was a salesman scare tactic. For now.
Who knows where Wyndham is going with this.
There is confusion with DRI as far as PIC is concerned. You can own DRI points and not be in the "trust". However, I think, new owners of DRI points are automatically put into the "trust". Maybe Wyndham sees the trust "points" and non trust "points" differently. Or maybe the difference is points vs fixed/floating.
Thanks for all your help. I will check out your suggestions and start doing more homework!
AND avoid these "owner update mtgs" like the plague.


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 8, 2012)

photogirl said:


> As far as I can tell the resort we own at does not appear to be part of the RCI points program.
> I realize that the VIP benefits are at the whim of the developer. But I have yet to see the new VIP benefits from Wyndham in writing. Have only heard that this and that have "gone away".
> But changing the status of your VIP membership without notifying you? Or changing the program all together without notifying you of what the changes are even after they have implemented some of them? This is a new low for us with Wyndham.
> Thanks for all your feedback, by the way.



The "new"  VIP benefits  are posted on Wyndham web site  under Good Life Program. Also, Ron posted here, but cannot find.

Short version,   with these new benefits  and $5.00 you can get a deluxe Starbucks.

Another poster observed  Wyndham points  are being given  away  or  are worth zero. Actually,  since most e-bay sales are PCCs who people have paid  thousands I would say there is no bottom on Wyndham lows, it already resides with the whale shit and some one will have to come up with a new descriptor.


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## tschwa2 (Nov 8, 2012)

Was your DRI week in points when you first had it enrolled in the PIC program?  Because if Ron's explanation: *To be PIC eligible the interval must not be points based and must be affiliated with RCI * is correct then your week wouldn't qualify for PIC since it is points based.  The description, and I have seen it before does not distinguish between RCI points and other points systems.  Presumably a Hilton, HGVC would also not qualify.  An affiliate not converted to points would qualify.  If your week was already enrolled in the DRI points system when you enrolled it in the PIC program initially you are probably on more solid ground.  I also believe you should avoid "surveys and updates" from Wyndham like the plague because every time you accept it allows the sales folk to go over every detail of your Wyndham account and RCI account to find "mistakes" in your account.


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## ronparise (Nov 8, 2012)

tschwa2 said:


> Was your DRI week in points when you first had it enrolled in the PIC program?  Because if Ron's explanation: *To be PIC eligible the interval must not be points based and must be affiliated with RCI * is correct then your week wouldn't qualify for PIC since it is points based.  The description, and I have seen it before does not distinguish between RCI points and other points systems.  Presumably a Hilton, HGVC would also not qualify.  An affiliate not converted to points would qualify.  If your week was already enrolled in the DRI points system when you enrolled it in the PIC program initially you are probably on more solid ground.  I also believe you should avoid "surveys and updates" from Wyndham like the plague because every time you accept it allows the sales folk to go over every detail of your Wyndham account and RCI account to find "mistakes" in your account.



The PIC rule as I stated it is taken from page 299 of the current directory

If there are any points attached to this ownership it wont be eligible any more. However its my understanding that it can be a points resort, as long as this interval hasnt been converted to points it will still be PIC qualified.

You also say, "An affiliate not converted to points would qualify"  I bought 2 weeks, not converted to points) at a Wyndham affiliate (Angel Fire) and was told by a Wyndham salesman that my weeks would not qualify for PIC. I wasnt ready to make a retail purchase at the time so I didnt fight it. I hope you are right..those two weeks would give me 508000 VIP eligible points with an mf of under $1000


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## tschwa2 (Nov 8, 2012)

When I said affiliate I was thinking Hilton Affiliate, like Bay Club or Valdoro Mountain Lodge, not in points.  I was not referring to a Wyndham affiliate.


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## gj_travels (Nov 8, 2012)

More really good information. Thanks.
Maybe I should have said that I realize that Wyndham can change their VIP program (a benefit) and they don't need to inform us if they have grandfathered us in. Although I think they did inform us and so I didn't question further. I get that. That's the VIP (benefit) program.
But PIC is a different animal. That can be used to "qualify" you for levels of ownership/VIP when the contract is written. If an owner wants to add new PIC property to their ownership, they have to have a new contract. Right? So I don't think that they can change PIC for existing contracts...only new ones.
So I think the salesmen mixed the two when they were talking to us to try and get us to buy more points. If we had purchased more points to keep our current VIP level (which they indicated was necessary) and combined the old Wyndham points with the new Wyndham points in a new contract under the new PIC program...then maybe we could not have used our Diamond in PIC (not sure they told the truth on that one). 
I think we just need to pay attention and check the information we are being given. Which means no more purchases through sales offices. AND read the new book every year. Cover to cover.
Two more things:
I don't think we are talking about RCI points here. I think that is a different subject.
I didn't even know that Diamond had a PIC type program. So that's not the issue.


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## gj_travels (Nov 9, 2012)

I agree that the "PIC program is going away" pitch has been around a loooong time.
The "your PIC units are no longer valid" pitch has been around more than 2 years as far as I can tell. And it is just that...a sales pitch.
Upon checking other blogs, I came away with these sugggestions:
Whatever the sales people tell you...insist on seeing it in writing at that time. (Not we will mail it to you or it is in the mail or I lost my copy!). 
Make sure you write down the names of the people from Wyndham that you encounter (good and bad). Might also be a good idea that they see you do this.

I consider the time we spent at the "informal update mtg" largely a waste of our time. The "bringing your owner goodies to your unit" is REALLY getting annoying! Just a lead in to a sales pitch.
And since Wyndham seems to be doing so well financially, it seems to me they could do a little better with the goodie bag...exp. for VIP owners. Cheesy!
I consider the time I spent checking out the blogs (TUG and others) to be very informative and interesting.
Thanks again for helping me/us to realize that we need to be paying more attention.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 9, 2012)

*A message Board Community IS NOT A BLOG*



photogirl said:


> Upon checking other blogs, .


 


> A *blog* (a portmanteau of the term _*web log*_)[1] is a discussion or informational site published on the World Wide Web and consisting of discrete entries ("posts") typically displayed in reverse chronological order (the most recent post appears first). Until 2009 blogs were usually the work of a single individual, occasionally of a small group, and often were themed on a single subject. *More recently "multi-author blogs" (MABs) have developed, with posts written by large numbers of authors and professionally edited.*


 
There is censorship but no editing of the posts in this message board



> An *Internet forum*, or *message board*, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.[1] They differ from chat rooms in that messages are at least temporarily archived. .
> Forums have a specific set of jargon associated with them; e.g. a single conversation is called a "thread". A discussion forum is hierarchical or tree-like in structure: a forum can contain a number of subforums, each of which may have several topics. Within a forum's topic, each new discussion started is called a thread, and can be replied to by as many people as so wish.


 
It's like fingernails on a black board when people call this form of communication blogging. 

A blog one person's or a cohesive group's opinion(s), a message board open communication on a structired topic


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## gj_travels (Nov 9, 2012)

I am sorry. I meant no offense.
I am obviously new to this format.


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## Sandy VDH (Nov 9, 2012)

Are you talking about the resort itself that has now been converted to RCI Points or the actual week owned. 

What happens with any Mini Points System, or it is only RCI Points that makes a difference. 

Again I think it is all a sales ploy.  You paid for PIC how they they cancel it when you have done nothing to change your ownership.


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## Rent_Share (Nov 9, 2012)

photogirl said:


> I am sorry. I meant no offense.
> I am obviously new to this format.


 
That's OK Crap is still Crap, and the internet can be a cesspool


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## pacodemountainside (Nov 9, 2012)

photogirl said:


> More really good information. Thanks.
> Maybe I should have said that I realize that Wyndham can change their VIP program (a benefit) and they don't need to inform us if they have grandfathered us in. Although I think they did inform us and so I didn't question further. I get that. That's the VIP (benefit) program.
> But PIC is a different animal. That can be used to "qualify" you for levels of ownership/VIP when the contract is written. If an owner wants to add new PIC property to their ownership, they have to have a new contract. Right? So I don't think that they can change PIC for existing contracts...only new ones.I didn't even know that Diamond had a PIC type program. So that's not the issue.



I think you are confusing deeded rights with  Developer Programs.  Deeded rights are cast in concrete.  You cannot add PIC to your  deed. Programs are contracts that one must read carefully.  

Developer Programs  are at Wyndham's'  discretion.  VIP can be terminated at will.

PIC is subject to annual review  and can be non-renewed.

See page 299 for specifics.


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