# Putting Timeshares into a Trust



## NboroGirl (Jan 21, 2017)

Have any TUGgers placed their timeshares into a trust?  We did this a little while ago and I've noticed some odd(?) stuff.

I was recently informed that I had to fill out an External Transfer From for each of my 3 enrolled weeks (I have a full week and 2 EOY weeks) in order to change the names on the deeds from mine and my husband's, to the name of the trust, which we did.  We mailed in the documents, along with our $25 fee for each week.  Our enrolled weeks combined are worth 6500 club points at Executive Level.

Yesterday I received an email from Marriott informing me that I needed to accept the terms and conditions in order to confirm the enrollment of my weeks.  This was something I hadn't considered - having to re-enroll my weeks.  According to the email, there is no charge for this enrollment, it shows up as $0.00 (I assume because the weeks were already enrolled and our club dues have been paid already for 2017).  However, they are showing me twice the number of points for my EOY weeks as before (as tho they were full weeks), so now my total points value for my 3 weeks is listed as 9275 points (still Executive Level).

After I clicked on the link in the email to approve my enrollment, I've been reading the terms and there's nothing new or strange.  As you know, Marriott upped the number of points to be Executive Level from 6500 to 7000, but we were grandfathered-in and maintained our Executive Level status after they made this change.  However, now it looks like they are evaluating our weeks at 9275 points.  Is this a mistake?  Or do you think Marriott is increasing our points value, unlikely as that may seem, so that we would maintain Executive Level?  Before I call Marriott I thought I'd throw this out there to TUG and see if anyone experienced anything similar.


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## jimf41 (Jan 21, 2017)

Although I have not put my weeks in a trust I've run across the same anomaly where MVCI seemed to be counting my EOY weeks at full point value. If you convert one of those EOY weeks to DC points you will get the full amount, but you'll only be able to do that EOY. It's a little confusing because of the way they bill the MFs, dividing the total bill in half and billing you EY. I believe that for status puposes the full amount of points is counted.


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## NboroGirl (Jan 21, 2017)

jimf41 said:


> Although I have not put my weeks in a trust I've run across the same anomaly where MVCI seemed to be counting my EOY weeks at full point value. If you convert one of those EOY weeks to DC points you will get the full amount, but you'll only be able to do that EOY. It's a little confusing because of the way they bill the MFs, dividing the total bill in half and billing you EY. I believe that for status puposes the full amount of points is counted.



I guess that makes sense.  But shouldn't it (the email I received) still show that the total point value of my weeks is 6500 points, not 9275?  And if they are only worth 6500, I wonder if my status level will be downgraded to Select, which would kind of suck.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 21, 2017)

NboroGirl said:


> I guess that makes sense.  But shouldn't it (the email I received) still show that the total point value of my weeks is 6500 points, not 9275?  And if they are only worth 6500, I wonder if my status level will be downgraded to Select, which would kind of suck.


Shouldn't you still grandfather in at Executive though? If not, I would be on the horn to Marriott asking why. Moving your ownership in to a trust should not impact this status.


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## ljmiii (Jan 22, 2017)

jimf41 said:


> MVCI seemed to be counting my EOY weeks at full point value. If you convert one of those EOY weeks to DC points you will get the full amount, but you'll only be able to do that EOY. It's a little confusing because of the way they bill the MFs, dividing the total bill in half and billing you EY. I believe that for status puposes the full amount of points is counted.


From our what it's worth department I note that MVCI counts my EOY weeks 'correctly' - that is to say for 1/2 the value of normal weeks. But I have two identical EOY weeks so that may have made the math easier for them...;-)

But to follow up on dioxide45's post, I think you should call MVCI and verify that your Executive Tier status will be maintained.


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## NboroGirl (Jan 22, 2017)

ljmiii said:


> From our what it's worth department I note that MVCI counts my EOY weeks 'correctly' - that is to say for 1/2 the value of normal weeks. But I have two identical EOY weeks so that may have made the math easier for them...;-)
> 
> But to follow up on dioxide45's post, I think you should call MVCI and verify that your Executive Tier status will be maintained.



My two EOY weeks are also "identical"...both are 2BR Platinum weeks at MGV.  A 2BR week is worth 2775 points, so one EOY was worth half that.  The 3BR week (which is not EOY) is worth 3725 points.  2775 + 3725 = 6500.  But in the email they showed each EOY was worth 2775 points and showed the total point value at 9275.

I can no longer log into my owner account.  When I tried, a message popped up saying I didn't have any owned weeks associated with that account, so I can't check my status on-line unfortunately.  It can "take up to 30 days for the property to be placed into your online account" (meaning the re-deeded weeks), so I guess I will either have to wait until my account has the weeks placed back in them or call MVCI to see if my status is still Executive.

THANKS!


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## dioxide45 (Jan 22, 2017)

You may need to setup a new online profile for your weeks in the trust. Perhaps others with weeks in a trust can weigh in.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 22, 2017)

We have two EOY weeks in our ownership portfolio.  When I see a list of our weeks, sometimes it shows the every year total value, but for status it always does it correctly, namely half of the annual amount for each EOY week.


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## kds4 (Jan 23, 2017)

NboroGirl said:


> Have any TUGgers placed their timeshares into a trust?  We did this a little while ago and I've noticed some odd(?) stuff.
> 
> I was recently informed that I had to fill out an External Transfer From for each of my 3 enrolled weeks (I have a full week and 2 EOY weeks) in order to change the names on the deeds from mine and my husband's, to the name of the trust, which we did.  We mailed in the documents, along with our $25 fee for each week.  Our enrolled weeks combined are worth 6500 club points at Executive Level.
> 
> ...



Hi. Without prying, I assume you set-up your trust through an attorney in MA? If you are willing, would you share what your cost was to create your trust? We are pricing doing the same with our weeks where we are and are curious what others are paying to do this (recognizing billable hourly rates vary, but the hours involved to draft the trust should be more consistent). Thanks.


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## icydog (Jan 23, 2017)

kds4 said:


> Hi. Without prying, I assume you set-up your trust through an attorney in MA? If you are willing, would you share what your cost was to create your trust? We are pricing doing the same with our weeks where we are and are curious what others are paying to do this (recognizing billable hourly rates vary, but the hours involved to draft the trust should be more consistent). Thanks.


I can't answer your question, sorry.  I do know that setting up our IRA trust in NJ was very expensive 

But I have a question.  One of the things giving me solace is if I die tomorrow my kids would NOT have to accept my weeks and  therefore, they would NOT be on the hook for my outrageous maintenance fees.

 If I put the weeks in a trust they would be guaranteed to be passed to my kids even though they probably wouldn't want them.


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## kds4 (Jan 23, 2017)

icydog said:


> I can't answer your question, sorry.  I do know that setting up our IRA trust in NJ was very expensive
> 
> But I have a question.  One of the things giving me solace is if I die tomorrow my kids would NOT have to accept my weeks and  therefore, they would NOT be on the hook for my outrageous maintenance fees.
> 
> If I put the weeks in a trust they would be guaranteed to be passed to my kids even though they probably wouldn't want them.



Agreed. The reason behind placing our weeks and points into a trust for our children is to give them our ownership level. By keeping the portfolio intact, our children inherit not just the weeks/points but also our membership level and the associated benefits that come with it. Without the trust, our kids ownership level will be determined by only the 'half' of our portfolio that they inherit (assuming they want it). If one or both do not, they will still be free to work out transferring their respective interest in the trust to the other or disposing of the trust's assets via sale, give back, or foreclosure. We will likely fund the trust with enough money that at least a couple of years of MFs will be paid for to give them time to decide for themselves what they want to do.


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## icydog (Jan 23, 2017)

kds4 said:


> Agreed. The reason behind placing our weeks and points into a trust for our children is to give them our ownership level. By keeping the portfolio intact, our children inherit not just the weeks/points but also our membership level and the associated benefits that come with it. Without the trust, our kids ownership level will be determined by only the 'half' of our portfolio that they inherit (assuming they want it). If one or both do not, they will still be free to work out transferring their respective interest in the trust to the other or disposing of the trust's assets via sale, give back, or foreclosure. We will likely fund the trust with enough money that at least a couple of years of MFs will be paid for to give them time to decide for themselves what they want to do.


I see where you are with this.  I never thought of it that way.  Is this a separate Marriott Timeshare trust you've set up? Nothing else is in there? If there were additional items in this trust, like IRAs and bank accounts,  I could see the trust  becoming a nightmare to manage.  If it's just for this purpose alone, to transfer ownership in whole to your children, then I can seeing it working.


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## VacationForever (Jan 23, 2017)

Icydog, setting up a trust starts with a Trust document.  That is the expensive part.  It cost us $5K first round, $3.5K second round (redid the whole thing because the first Trust Attorney was a fraud and messed up the whole thing), $3K (amendment to the 2nd trust).  Putting IRA or timeshare into a trust is actually free.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 23, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Icydog, setting up a trust starts with a Trust document.  That is the expensive part.  It cost us $5K first round, $3.5K second round (redid the whole thing because the first Trust Attorney was a fraud and messed up the whole thing), $3K (amendment to the 2nd trust).  Putting IRA or timeshare into a trust is actually free.


You should see a different attorney.  A trust is usually cheap like a will.  It is only expensive if it is a very complex estate planning trust with many nuances and complex tax issues.  A trust limited to timeshares should never exceed $1500, and probably considerably less.  My mother-in-law paid a top NJ estate attorney about $1200-$1500 total for her will and a trust for her house and a few other assets.


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## VacationForever (Jan 23, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> You should see a different attorney.  A trust is usually cheap like a will.  It is only expensive if it is a very complex estate planning trust with many nuances and complex tax issues.  A trust limited to timeshares should never exceed $1500, and probably considerably less.  My mother-in-law paid a top NJ estate attorney about $1200-$1500 total for her will and a trust for her house and a few other assets.


Perhaps CA is different.


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## kds4 (Jan 23, 2017)

icydog said:


> I see where you are with this.  I never thought of it that way.  Is this a separate Marriott Timeshare trust you've set up? Nothing else is in there? If there were additional items in this trust, like IRAs and bank accounts,  I could see the trust  becoming a nightmare to manage.  If it's just for this purpose alone, to transfer ownership in whole to your children, then I can seeing it working.



It is strictly a timeshare trust for our weeks/points and some initial cash to sustain the ongoing MFs. No other assets would go in (without getting into a discussion about whether a timeshare is actually an asset).


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## icydog (Jan 23, 2017)

kds4 said:


> It is strictly a timeshare trust for our weeks/points and some initial cash to sustain the ongoing MFs. No other assets would go in (without getting into a discussion about whether a timeshare is actually an asset).


Then your plan should work seamlessly.  I have two kids who could afford my timeshares and three kids who couldn't afford them in a million years. Unfortunately, the kids who want them can't afford them, and the kids who can afford them don't want them!


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## BocaBoy (Jan 24, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Perhaps CA is different.


It can't be that different.  A timeshare trust is a very simple document.


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## NboroGirl (Jan 24, 2017)

I am the OP.  My husband and I redid our wills and set up 2 trusts to shield our kids from as much estate tax as possible when we die.  We also wanted to avoid having to have them probate our wills in Florida, where the timeshares are located, which would probably cost more than the timeshare weeks are worth.

The house and timeshares are in my trust, and a bunch of investments and monies are in my husband's trust.  We used an attorney in MA (Worcester).  Even though we did this about 2.5 years ago and all the work has been completed, we have yet to see a bill from our attorney.  We even called her in November regarding another matter and reminded her that we never received a bill for our wills/trust and she said she knew and was going to send out something soon, but we still haven't gotten anything.  FWIW we budgeted about $1500 for this, which is in line with what BocaBoy said, but until (if) we get a bill, I can't say for sure.


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## VacationForever (Jan 24, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> It can't be that different.  A timeshare trust is a very simple document.


Every state has its different wordings to set up a trust.  Each of ours has been super thick.  Trust attorneys probably charge alot more in CA too.  My 3 versions were done by 3 different trust attorneys.  None is cheap.  Putting timeshare in a trust is free and does not even make it into the trust document.


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## icydog (Jan 24, 2017)

I wish there was a way to fund the timeshares for the kids' use but it would cause family problems, believe me.  I'm sure my step-daughter, who is a real estate attorney, will immediately liquidate all my assets.  I haven't spoken to her since my husband died, which in itself is screwy.  But our trust divides everything by 5, for his three, and my two, children. Ironically she has more money than everyone in the family combined!


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## BocaBoy (Jan 24, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Every state has its different wordings to set up a trust.  Each of ours has been super thick.  Trust attorneys probably charge alot more in CA too.  My 3 versions were done by 3 different trust attorneys.  None is cheap.  Putting timeshare in a trust is free and does not even make it into the trust document.


A simple trust document should be no more than 10-15 pages maximum (double spaced), and almost all of that is boilerplate in any state.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 26, 2017)

kds4 said:


> It is strictly a timeshare trust for our weeks/points and some initial cash to sustain the ongoing MFs. No other assets would go in (without getting into a discussion about whether a timeshare is actually an asset).


It is obviously an asset.  It just may not be the kind of asset one wants to own.  Some assets (e.g., cars) go down in value but they are still assets.


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## kds4 (Jan 27, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> It is obviously an asset.  It just may not be the kind of asset one wants to own.  Some assets (e.g., cars) go down in value but they are still assets.



No disagreement here, but I know there have been TUG discussions on this topic with differing opinions (so I was only trying to avoid side-tracking this discussion on that point).


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## Ann-Marie (Jan 27, 2017)

We set up a trust with our two houses, investments, IRA and cars. Had a NY attorney do it but he also consulted with a SC attorney where our other property is to make sure the wording was correct. It cost $5,000. Did not include the timeshares.


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## VacationForever (Jan 28, 2017)

Ann-Marie said:


> We set up a trust with our two houses, investments, IRA and cars. Had a NY attorney do it but he also consulted with a SC attorney where our other property is to make sure the wording was correct. It cost $5,000. Did not include the timeshares.



We set up a trust, and put non-IRA investments, home and bank accounts into the trust.  Everything else sits outside of it.  You may want to double check on the IRA piece with the attorney to make sure it works the way you want it to work.  From my understanding, leaving IRA outside of a trust is advantageous because the beneficiary will not be hit with immediate taxes on lump sum withdrawal, which is the case with putting it in a trust.


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## VacationForever (Jan 28, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> A simple trust document should be no more than 10-15 pages maximum (double spaced), and almost all of that is boilerplate in any state.



You have strong opinions as to what a trust should look like and how much it should cost.  That is not the real world.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2017)

I didn't think you could put an IRA in to a trust? Of course, the way around this is to name the trust as the beneficiary of the IRA.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 28, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> You have strong opinions as to what a trust should look like and how much it should cost.  That is not the real world.


All I will say is that I am a licensed  attorney, have personal experience with trusts, have had a trust of my own, a friend of mine is an estate planning attorney, I arranged a trust for my mother-in-law, and I used to work for a law firm that did a lot of wills and trusts.  I am sorry that I have no real world experience.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 28, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> I didn't think you could put an IRA in to a trust? Of course, the way around this is to name the trust as the beneficiary of the IRA.


I personally would never want a trust to own my IRA.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> I personally would never want a trust to own my IRA.


That is why I posted what I did, I don't think it can.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 28, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> That is why I posted what I did, I don't think it can.


I agree, not while the IRA owner is alive.


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## VacationForever (Jan 28, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> That is why I posted what I did, I don't think it can.


You can but it is tax disadvantageous for the beneficiary.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> You can but it is tax disadvantageous for the beneficiary.


By definition, it couldn't be an IRA in the trust since an IRA has to be held by an individual and the trust is an entity. Naming the trust as the beneficiary on any IRA or 401Ks is the way to do it.


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## VacationForever (Jan 28, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> By definition, it couldn't be an IRA in the trust since an IRA has to be held by an individual and the trust is an entity. Naming the trust as the beneficiary on any IRA or 401Ks is the way to do it.



You can name a trust as the beneficiary but the issue is that you will end up with a lump sum withdrawal which means immediate tax.


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## dioxide45 (Jan 28, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> You can name a trust as the beneficiary but the issue is that you will end up with a lump sum withdrawal which means immediate tax.


Okay. That makes sense. Then the question is, how do you handle disbursement of an IRA upon death? Preferably, there wouldn't be much left in there, but if there is. Would one be better to name several beneficiaries to spread out the tax burden? Can beneficiaries roll over any amount they inherit from an IRA in to one of their own to eliminate the immediate burden?


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## BocaBoy (Jan 28, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Okay. That makes sense. Then the question is, how do you handle disbursement of an IRA upon death? Preferably, there wouldn't be much left in there, but if there is. Would one be better to name several beneficiaries to spread out the tax burden? Can beneficiaries roll over any amount they inherit from an IRA in to one of their own to eliminate the immediate burden?


The beneficiaries would have what is called an Inherited IRA with its own special rather complicated rules.  To over simplify but give the basic idea, the beneficiary must take disbursements when the IRA owner would have been required to, but they can be based on the age of the beneficiary.  I am familiar with this because I inherited an IRA several years ago.


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## VacationForever (Jan 28, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Okay. That makes sense. Then the question is, how do you handle disbursement of an IRA upon death? Preferably, there wouldn't be much left in there, but if there is. Would one be better to name several beneficiaries to spread out the tax burden? Can beneficiaries roll over any amount they inherit from an IRA in to one of their own to eliminate the immediate burden?


Complicated and yet not. Spouse can elect to follow the same schedule as the deceased or rollover and becomes his/her own and follow the IRA rule for the single person only, with RMD age starting at 70.  For children/others, it will follow the table based his/her age and immediately be subjected to required minimum distribution, or if the person so wishes, in 5 lump sum payment over 5 years.


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## BocaBoy (Jan 28, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> You can but it is tax disadvantageous for the beneficiary.


Please cite an authority for this statement.  Everything I have ever seen or read says that a trust cannot legally be the owner of an IRA while the IRA holder is alive.  The issue seldom comes up because having an IRA owned by a trust would be financially unwise even if it were possible.


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## VacationForever (Jan 28, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> Please cite an authority for this statement.  Everything I have ever seen or read says that a trust cannot legally be the owner of an IRA while the IRA holder is alive.  The issue seldom comes up because having an IRA owned by a trust would be financially unwise even if it were possible.


I meant naming trust as a beneficiary.


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## rapmarks (Jan 30, 2017)

I too was surprised at the post that said the trust contained ira, we have always been advised to not place ira in trust.  We also did not list trust as primary beneficiary of ira.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Delicate Arch (Feb 2, 2017)

This is a heads up to anyone going down this path.
We own four properties. Two were titled jointing in my and H name; two were titled jointly in the name of my trust and H trust.
We had two account numbers 2xxx for the ones in our names and 4xxx for the ones in the trust.
Before I started getting everything titled the same, Marriott was able to link the 2xxx account and the 4xxx account and all the Destination points were co-mingled, visible with one login, having one membership fee, etc.
During estate planning, the lawyer said to get them all in the name of the trusts. LONG hassle with tons of paperwork, but mission accomplished.
Then, another LONG and paper-filled process to get Marriott to change the names on the internal database. Mission accomplished.
HOWEVER, it turns out that when you retitle the ones in the 2xx account, they move to the 4xxx account but the destination points associated with them do not. They remain in the 2xxx account which is no longer visible online as they shut accounts online with no properties. If the points in the now "property-less account) are banked points they can't be moved to the 4xxx account. If they are unbanked, and you transfer them, then they can't be banked.
The bottom line is that you can end up (like us) with 8000 points (yes, I know, we have had things on our plate) of varying expirations that are now stuck in the 2xxx account that that are much more difficult to use.
So, heads up.


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## rthib (Feb 2, 2017)

For those wondering about IRA and trust, here is a good started article - http://www.bankrate.com/finance/retirement/naming-trust-ira-beneficiary.aspx
But to net it out, don't do it without talking to someone first.

Second, I know there was a thread somewhere but to move mine, do I need a lawyer in the state for the timeshare to do the transfer?
Own in AZ and CA and need to move to our trust.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 2, 2017)

Delicate Arch said:


> ......it turns out that when you retitle the ones in the 2xx account, they move to the 4xxx account but the destination points associated with them do not. They remain in the 2xxx account which is no longer visible online as they shut accounts online with no properties. If the points in the now "property-less account) are banked points they can't be moved to the 4xxx account. If they are unbanked, and you transfer them, then they can't be banked.
> The bottom line is that you can end up (like us) with 8000 points (yes, I know, we have had things on our plate) of varying expirations that are now stuck in the 2xxx account that that are much more difficult to use.


This does not make any sense legally.  The trust is not an ownership issue, but rather only a titling convenience.  Have you taken this issue up the chain at MVCI to challenge the way they handled this?


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## NboroGirl (Feb 2, 2017)

rthib said:


> For those wondering about IRA and trust, here is a good started article - http://www.bankrate.com/finance/retirement/naming-trust-ira-beneficiary.aspx
> But to net it out, don't do it without talking to someone first.
> 
> Second, I know there was a thread somewhere but to move mine, do I need a lawyer in the state for the timeshare to do the transfer?
> Own in AZ and CA and need to move to our trust.



No, we didn't.  We used our lawyer in MA for our timeshares in FL.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 2, 2017)

rthib said:


> Second, I know there was a thread somewhere but to move mine, do I need a lawyer in the state for the timeshare to do the transfer?  Own in AZ and CA and need to move to our trust.


No.  To see the logic of this, think of it this way.  You own timeshares in two states and want them in one trust.  If you needed it to be drafted by a lawyer in each state, that would not really be practical or even possible.  Putting a timeshare in a trust is not really a real estate transaction.


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## Delicate Arch (Feb 2, 2017)

Boca, I couldn't agree with you more that re-titling from ME into MY trust - when I still pay the MF, I still pay the taxes, I still pay the annual fee - is not the same sort of change in ownership as if I sold the properties to someone else.

So, no their rules don't make sense. The agent read me verbatim what was on their list and even tried doing a transfer to see if it could work. 

I didn't escalate it further - sometimes these phone class just beat me down although that may be the objective! 

Is it possible that some high level person could make this work? Maybe. Finding that person, hmmm.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 3, 2017)

Delicate Arch said:


> Boca, I couldn't agree with you more that re-titling from ME into MY trust - when I still pay the MF, I still pay the taxes, I still pay the annual fee - is not the same sort of change in ownership as if I sold the properties to someone else.
> 
> So, no their rules don't make sense. The agent read me verbatim what was on their list and even tried doing a transfer to see if it could work.
> 
> ...


Maybe I am misunderstanding your facts because if I have it right the problem you have is almost laughable in its stupidity.  You now have weeks in an account that are titled in the name of your trust, but the DC points you get for those same weeks go into another account?  If that is the case, it is clearly wrong.  I would try Customer Advocacy for starters.


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## elleny76 (Feb 3, 2017)

For a moment reading all this I am panicking. We have 4 TS and now I am wondering what  should I do in case my Dh dies or I die or we both die and my child will inherit all these 4 TS. I am sure if my child does well in life as an adult he will take them all but how about is this is not the case? We are young family so any advice, link will be appreciated it. Thanks


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## Delicate Arch (Feb 3, 2017)

Boca, from here on out all properties and all points will be in the 4xxx account and all will proceed as usual (I hope). However, as all these changes were happening in 2016 (it takes months to get this all done), I turned some weeks in our name, not in the trust, into destination points. Before we started changing everything all points were co-mingled. I could combine points from trust and non-trust properties seamlessly.

However, once we started to make changes they ripped the 2xxx and 4xxx accounts apart, moved all properties (eventually) into 4xxx, moved some points into the 4xxx account and going forward everything will be in 4xxx.

In the ripping apart, 8000 points derived from properties in our names, not the trusts, were left behind in the 2xxx account. There seems to be an incredibly long list of rules that they read to me that govern bankability and transferability of these points that are in the now closed-down 2xxx account. Basically if you transfer you can't ever bank, and if you ever bank you can't transfer.

I will try customer Advocacy, thanks for the tip. I mostly wanted to give others the heads up as they move properties into trusts that life will be much simpler if you do not have any points associated with the properties, as they will get "left behind" and become a headache. Not an insurmountable problem, but a stupid headache.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 3, 2017)

Delicate Arch said:


> Boca, from here on out all properties and all points will be in the 4xxx account and all will proceed as usual (I hope). However, as all these changes were happening in 2016 (it takes months to get this all done), I turned some weeks in our name, not in the trust, into destination points. Before we started changing everything all points were co-mingled. I could combine points from trust and non-trust properties seamlessly.
> 
> However, once we started to make changes they ripped the 2xxx and 4xxx accounts apart, moved all properties (eventually) into 4xxx, moved some points into the 4xxx account and going forward everything will be in 4xxx.
> 
> ...


Good luck with Customer Advocacy.  They might be able to help.  It seems the problem is that someone was looking at moving the points to your other account as a "transfer", which makes no sense.  However, I now understand that this will not be an ongoing problem in future years, which is one big positive.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 3, 2017)

elleny76 said:


> For a moment reading all this I am panicking. We have 4 TS and now I am wondering what  should I do in case my Dh dies or I die or we both die and my child will inherit all these 4 TS. I am sure if my child does well in life as an adult he will take them all but how about is this is not the case? We are young family so any advice, link will be appreciated it. Thanks


As Denise has said many times in various threads, no one can be forced to inherit a timeshare.  Therefore, if your child does not want any or all of your timeshares and the estate cannot sell them, he can disclaim that part of his inheritance and be free of its obligations.  With a Marriott timeshare, however, either the estate or the heir can probably sell it and realize some cash for it.  You should probably make sure that your wills allow the executor to sell the timeshares if the heirs do not want them.


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## DavidnRobin (Feb 3, 2017)

IMO - Setting up a Trust is the relatively easy part, Funding the Trust is the part that takes effort.  Setting up the Trust is done by an Attorney (cost dependent on complexities of the Trust), however Funding needs to be done by Trustees. Most TS are not worthy of putting in Trust, not only because of their generally low (negative) value relative to the estate, but also the hassle involved (part of Funding the Trust).  I am going to keep mine out of Trust for now (a few have value), and then possible amend Trust later (and go through Funding process which involves changing the deeds into the Trust name).

btw, Retirement accounts have their own beneficiary distributions, and are listed on the Schedule of Assets in the Trust documents, but is not part of Trust.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 3, 2017)

DavidnRobin said:


> Most TS are not worthy of putting in Trust, not only because of their generally low (negative) value relative to the estate, but also the hassle involved (part of Funding the Trust).


The relatively low value of the timeshares is generally not a reason for not doing a trust.  A trust is designed to smooth the passing of assets and save a lot of hassle, such as probate in multiple states.


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## Former Cruiser (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm coming into this discussion late, but did I read if you don't put a timeshare in your trust and your timeshare is in another state you'll have to go through probate in that state for that asset?


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## joybeckerley1 (Feb 4, 2017)

NboroGirl said:


> Have any TUGgers placed their timeshares into a trust?  We did this a little while ago and I've noticed some odd(?) stuff.
> 
> I was recently informed that I had to fill out an External Transfer From for each of my 3 enrolled weeks (I have a full week and 2 EOY weeks) in order to change the names on the deeds from mine and my husband's, to the name of the trust, which we did.  We mailed in the documents, along with our $25 fee for each week.  Our enrolled weeks combined are worth 6500 club points at Executive Level.
> 
> ...


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## joybeckerley1 (Feb 4, 2017)

I am not sure what an EOY is but as I understand it if your Marriott properties are not in a Trust then you heirs can not use the destinations points associated with the properties they may inherit.......It took me awhile to get all my deeds and the paperwork for Marriott to have everything in the same name and into the trust


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## BocaBoy (Feb 4, 2017)

joybeckerley1 said:


> I am not sure what an EOY is but as I understand it if your Marriott properties are not in a Trust then your heirs can not use the destinations points associated with the properties they may inherit.......It took me awhile to get all my deeds and the paperwork for Marriott to have everything in the same name and into the trust


EOY is every other year.  And if one inherits a timeshare the heir can indeed enroll the week if it was either enrolled or eligible to be enrolled before.  I don't think it automatically stays enrolled, however, so another enrollment fee is likely due from the heir, which would be another advantage of having the weeks in a trust.


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## BocaBoy (Feb 4, 2017)

Former Cruiser said:


> I'm coming into this discussion late, but did I read if you don't put a timeshare in your trust and your timeshare is in another state you'll have to go through probate in that state for that asset?


Generally yes.  It is often called "ancillary probate."


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## bogey21 (Feb 4, 2017)

VacationForever said:


> Icydog, setting up a trust starts with a Trust document.  That is the expensive part.



I wrote my will using LegalZoom.com. I think it cost me $35 about 15 years ago.  I haven't looked but I wouldn't be surprised if you can do a Trust using them too.

George

PS I just casually looked at the LegalZoom website.  It says $249 for a Trust.


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## tjk144 (Feb 4, 2017)

A bit off topic, but not entirely.  My wife and I own a timeshare in another state that has worked out very well for us.  We rent it out much more often than we use it.  Over the 20+ years that we have owned it, our gross rental income has well exceeded our maintenance fees and the cumulative net income over the years has even exceeded our investment.  Thus I do not mind passing it on to our children.  However, as mentioned by OP and others, probate costs can be prohibitive.  I was planning to add our four children to the deed WROS.  There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable posters in this discussion.  Are there any drawbacks to adding our children to the deed rather than setting up a trust?


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## BocaBoy (Feb 5, 2017)

tjk144 said:


> A bit off topic, but not entirely.  My wife and I own a timeshare in another state that has worked out very well for us.  We rent it out much more often than we use it.  Over the 20+ years that we have owned it, our gross rental income has well exceeded our maintenance fees and the cumulative net income over the years has even exceeded our investment.  Thus I do not mind passing it on to our children.  However, as mentioned by OP and others, probate costs can be prohibitive.  I was planning to add our four children to the deed WROS.  There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable posters in this discussion.  Are there any drawbacks to adding our children to the deed rather than setting up a trust?


That certainly works for passing it on to your children outside of probate.


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## pwrshift (Feb 5, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> That certainly works for passing it on to your children outside of probate.



Interesting thread.

I'm Canadian and own 6 platinum Marriotts...Chairman's level of DC points but have never used them that way.  Each of 4 TSs has my name and 1 of my 4 heirs so the each own one as survivor when I die.  The first two I bought (MBP and MMC) just have my name. 

I haven't looked into setting up trusts and probably should, but you might have different ideas about that. 

Each of my heirs say they still want ownership if I pass, but suspect the two in my name only might be sold by the executors (my heirs).

Any suggestions?

Brian


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## BocaBoy (Feb 5, 2017)

pwrshift said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> I'm Canadian and own 6 platinum Marriotts...Chairman's level of DC points but have never used them that way.  Each of 4 TSs has my name and 1 of my 4 heirs so the each own one as survivor when I die.  The first two I bought (MBP and MMC) just have my name.
> 
> ...


You should probably make sure that your will gives the executor the power to sell those two timeshares with the cash coming to the estate if the heirs do not want them.  Otherwise those two weeks might have to go through probate and go to the heirs, who would then have to sell the weeks themselves.  I am not a wills/trusts attorney, so I suggest you consult one.  I also do not know what if any, impact your Canadian citizenship may have.  You might also want to consider a trust for all of the timeshare weeks if your heirs get along well with each other, which I think could preserve your DC Chairman's Club level for your heirs.


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## elleny76 (Feb 7, 2017)

BocaBoy said:


> As Denise has said many times in various threads, no one can be forced to inherit a timeshare.  Therefore, if your child does not want any or all of your timeshares and the estate cannot sell them, he can disclaim that part of his inheritance and be free of its obligations.  With a Marriott timeshare, however, either the estate or the heir can probably sell it and realize some cash for it.  You should probably make sure that your wills allow the executor to sell the timeshares if the heirs do not want them.


Thanks so much! (and thanks to Denise)


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## NboroGirl (Mar 1, 2017)

_But shouldn't it (the email I received) still show that the total point value of my weeks is 6500 points, not 9275? And if they are only worth 6500, I wonder if my status level will be downgraded to Select, which would kind of suck._



dioxide45 said:


> Shouldn't you still grandfather in at Executive though? If not, I would be on the horn to Marriott asking why. Moving your ownership in to a trust should not impact this status.



Well, after a month and 5 phone calls to Marriott Owner Services, I am FINALLY able to log into my Owner account (sheesh) again.  And what do I see at the top of the page?  I am no longer Executive. I've been downgraded to Select.  All because my moved my timeshares, worth 6500 points, into a trust.  I put in a call to Marriott and am waiting to hear back. I hope this was a mistake and that I am still grandfathered in.


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## NboroGirl (Mar 6, 2017)

dioxide45 said:


> Shouldn't you still grandfather in at Executive though? If not, I would be on the horn to Marriott asking why. Moving your ownership in to a trust should not impact this status.



Apparently not.  I received this response from Marriott today, and they misspelled 'due':

_*Regarding your status level, our records show that you did a deed change and do to the deed change where you did put your ownership in a trust we cannot honor the Executive status. The grandfather Executive status was only for the previous number and deed. 
*_
Argh.


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## Fasttr (Mar 6, 2017)

NboroGirl said:


> Apparently not.  I received this response from Marriott today, and they misspelled 'due':
> 
> _*Regarding your status level, our records show that you did a deed change and do to the deed change where you did put your ownership in a trust we cannot honor the Executive status. The grandfather Executive status was only for the previous number and deed.
> *_
> Argh.


Yikes....that hurts!!

Wonder if SueDonJ can verify that via her MVC contact....and if it is indeed so, that needs to be highlighted in bold lettering in the Points FAQ Sticky in some fashion as a cautionary tale for any grandfathered folks who may contemplate such a deeding change at any point in the future.


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## NboroGirl (Mar 6, 2017)

Now I know why Marriott gave me a new Owner ID.  I got a new one for me, and a new one for the trust. I can understand why the trust got a new one because it didn't exist before. But I didn't understand why I couldn't just keep my old one or why I needed to get a new one.  But I guess by doing this, Marriott can claim I'm a new owner and therefore no longer can be grandfathered in the new point level system.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 6, 2017)

NboroGirl said:


> Apparently not.  I received this response from Marriott today, and they misspelled 'due':
> 
> _*Regarding your status level, our records show that you did a deed change and do to the deed change where you did put your ownership in a trust we cannot honor the Executive status. The grandfather Executive status was only for the previous number and deed.
> *_
> Argh.


Assuming that your trust is the normal type of revocable trust, it legally is treated for every purpose I know of as your own property.  It usually would even use your social security number and all tax items are yours individually.  For example, such a trust does not file its own tax return and you can deduct property taxes on your personal tax return.  This might all be different for someone who sets up an irrevocable trust, because those are definitely a separate entity apart from the grantor, but I do not believe that is your situation.  It sounds like someone at MVCI does not understand the nature of a revocable trust such as yours.  Have you talked to customer Advocacy?

As a side point, I noticed on the title insurance policies for our three timeshares that the title insurance stays in force without even having to make any change to the policy if ownership is put in such a trust.

Don't give up on this issue.


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## SueDonJ (Mar 6, 2017)

Fasttr said:


> Yikes....that hurts!!
> 
> Wonder if SueDonJ can verify that via her MVC contact....and if it is indeed so, that needs to be highlighted in bold lettering in the Points FAQ Sticky in some fashion as a cautionary tale for any grandfathered folks who may contemplate such a deeding change at any point in the future.



I'm really hesitant to put anything that applies to unique or irregular issues into the FAQ, especially something like this ownership-in-a-trust issue that may differ according to state laws.  But I've added this blurb to the _Reselling / Transferring Ownership ..._ section on Page 2:


> "Any *changes to the total number of DC Points in a Member's account* will impact the Status Tier and associated usage/benefits of that account. Such changes include buying/selling of Trust Points and/or Enrolled Weeks, and placing ownership into a trust. It's strongly suggested that you contact Owner Modifications at 800-443-4391 or owner.modifications@vacationclub.com in advance if you have questions."



Nborogirl, I've closed your other thread so that you don't have to search for responses in both that one and this one.  I'm glad other TUGgers who are familiar with trust-related issues are helping you as much as they can.  Thanks for keeping the rest of us informed, and good luck.


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## mas (Mar 6, 2017)

I'm not sure I can help you specifically, but I had a somewhat similar problem though it didn't involve dealing with trusts.  

My situation was as follows:  My online account was fine, it listed all my weeks and trust points, however my wife's account did not list one of the weeks we own and consequently was at a lower status level than me.  I mentioned this to a sales person while we were at Beach Place and she told me to call owner services and ask for 'owner modification'.  I did this and spent about 20 minutes with a CSR who checked our account and could see that we were indeed both listed on the deeds to all our weeks but for some reason my wife's account was missing one.  He spent a few minutes supposedly 'linking' the missing week to her account.  After I hung up I logged on to her account and was disappointed to find that the week was still missing.  I gave it a week to see if maybe the situation would correct itself--it didn't.  

I called again and asked for the the owner modification CSR and informed the new CSR of my problem and attempts at solving it.  He put me on hold, talked to a supervisor and came back and informed me that they would fix the problem but that it would take a couple of days to a week for me to see the change.  Well this time, I guess, twice is the charm.  After two days, the problem appears fixed and now both accounts read the same with all weeks and points showing up in my and my wife's account.


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## NboroGirl (Mar 7, 2017)

GOOD NEWS I hope!  (fingers crossed)

I called the Directors of Customer Advocacy at MVCI Headquarters, as was suggested in my other post (that's since been locked) and explained my two problems.  They weren't much help.  All they did was give me the phone number for Owner Services.

The person I spoke with at OS was very very helpful, or seemed to be. I will probably not know for sure until tomorrow, but...

He talked to IT to get my user account problems resolved (I am skeptical because I keep getting told by IT that the problem is fixed, yet I still can't log in, so time will tell if they ever figure out the problem.)

Regarding the Trust and my Owner Benefit Level being downgraded, the OS rep said it didn't sound right.  We've been owners since 2003 and we enrolled our weeks at the very beginning, and the whole reason for grandfathering owners with 6500-6999 points at Executive was to not punish these owners when Marriott changed the rules. I wholeheartedly agreed.  I told him I was given a new Owner ID and wondered if that was the point of issuing new owner IDs instead of letting me keep my old one, so that I could be downgraded and he said no, he doubted that. (I must be getting cynical in my old age.)  He told me he just spoke to a customer earlier today who was also downgraded when she asked to have her owner ID be the primary one on the account since her husband died - her owner ID hadn't changed but she still got downgraded.  Anyway, he put me on hold, talked to his supervisor who talked to her supervisor and they saw that I purchased the properties in 2003 and 2004 and are working with Business Support to restore my status.  

I haven't officially declared victory, but I am feeling hopeful that these problems will be resolved soon.  I'll post an update when I find out for sure.


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## BocaBoy (Mar 7, 2017)

NboroGirl said:


> GOOD NEWS I hope!  (fingers crossed)
> 
> I called the Directors of Customer Advocacy at MVCI Headquarters, as was suggested in my other post (that's since been locked) and explained my two problems.  They weren't much help.  All they did was give me the phone number for Owner Services.
> 
> ...


I am very disappointed that Customer Advocacy did not help you.  My experience with them has always been good and I thought they would understand your issue.  Glad to hear, however, that your status may be restored soon, as it should be.  I will be very interested to hear the outcome.


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## NboroGirl (Mar 14, 2017)

I guess I was wrong to be optimistic that my problem would be resolved. It's been a week and nothing.  I called a few days ago and spoke to the owner's rep I was dealing with last week, and he had no news. Meanwhile, I STILL can't log into my owner's account and my status still has not been changed back from Select to Executive.

It's like this:


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## NboroGirl (Mar 27, 2017)

UPDATE:  My status has been restored to Executive  so moving my timeshares into a trust did not un-grandfather me, so to speak.
BUT... I still can't log into my owner's account.  Customer Care is now involved and they seem to be pressing for a resolution. [fingers crossed]


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## JohnB (Jul 24, 2018)

This thread was helpful, but nothing recent. I am in the process of purchasing from MVCI an enrollable St. Kitts week that will allow me to enroll my resale Maui week. I also have a Maui week already enrolled and a few destination points. I want to put all of these properties and interests into a trust. I am an attorney so the basic drafting of the document will not be a problem. Here are my questions: 

1) As to those Tuggers who have placed their properties in a trust, has the trust mechanism worked well, especially in dealings with Owner Services? If not, what have been the trouble spots? Some of the older posts reference headaches getting Marriott to recognize all of the interests as part of the trust, particularly with online dealings. Hopefully, that problem is in the past.

2)After the deeds have been filed transferring the properties or the interests to the trust, how long has it taken Marriott to process the change in their system?

3)Are there any title service companies you recommend that you have used in connection with the deed transfers?

     For me, I need to have everything in place by mid-November as I need to have the points ready to go in order to create a year-end    reservation for a large family group.

     Thanks as always for your help.


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## NboroGirl (Jul 25, 2018)

I was the OP so I can answer some of your questions.  I had 2 enrolled weeks that I put into a trust.

1) After you put your properties in a trust and change the deeds, you need to notify Marriott.  You must fill out a form and send in some money (I think it was around $75/timeshare) for them to change the ownership in their database.  It is pretty quick once they receive your money.  Otherwise they don't recognize the trust as the new owner.

2) I did encounter headaches with Marriott.  First I lost access to my online account with MVC.  I noticed my username and password no longer worked when I tried to reserve my weeks online.  I think I could have just created a new account but I really wanted to keep my username, although in hindsight it wasn't worth the trouble.  It took about 2-3 months of weekly phone calls and emails to try and get this rectified and was a big drain on my time.

Also, Marriott treated this like a sale from me to my trust. This was a problem because I was an original Executive level owner who was grandfathered in when Marriott changed the number of points required for Executive from 6500 to 7000.  So all of a sudden I am no longer Executive. At first Marriott wouldn't agree with me that I should remain at Executive level.  Then I got a phone number to call from someone on TUG when you want to escalate a problem and got them to agree with me that yes, I should still remain at Executive and it only took a few days after that to get that fixed.

3) Our estate attorney took care of transferring the deeds.


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