# Uptick in Ebay pricing for Marriotts



## MOXJO7282 (May 9, 2012)

Someone just mentioned this about a OP plat week that just sold for $7100 and I'm definitely noticing it with the Marriott weeks I track and even the ones I don't, like off-season weeks I seem to see the same but can't document.

The rental market for prime Marriotts quite frankly is better than ever so both these trends are positive indicators for Marriott owners looking to sell. Not so much for buyers though.


----------



## RBERR1 (May 9, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Someone just mentioned this about a OP plat week that just sold for $7100 and I'm definitely noticing it with the Marriott weeks I track and even the ones I don't, like off-season weeks I seem to see the same but can't document.
> 
> The rental market for prime Marriotts quite frankly is better than ever so both these trends are positive indicators for Marriott owners looking to sell. Not so much for buyers though.



Well I think it depends.  A package for 2 Barony Beach gold weeks garden view went a week or two ago for under $4K combined.  That is the lowest I have seen by far.


----------



## siesta (May 9, 2012)

I doubt your sample size is adequate enough to make any sort of market analysis. A few incidents of high sales don't equate to a necessary trend.

however, tourism in general has seen a recent increase. In 2010, there were over 940 million international tourist arrivals worldwide, representing a growth of 6.6% when compared to 2009, this growth may result in a healthier timeshare rental market as opposed to a few years past and why you may be seeing an "uptick" in the market. However, this phenomena is not unique to Marriotts (not that you said it was).

It's also important to realize that 2008 also saw an increase in tourism about 5% for the first half of the fiscal year, and it wasn't until the h1n1 influenze outbreak fears that caused it to plummet in late 2008 and 2009, and it rebounded in 2010. Since it declined about 4% in 2009, the 6.6% gain in 2010 really only equates to an overall 2+% growth.

To play devil's advocate, I just recently saw a platinum Sheraton Vistana Villages unit that came with StarOptions sell for over $5000 including closing on ebay, when last year they often went for $1000-2000. However, if you look at recently completed auctions you can see others sold for less. Sometimes there just is no rhyme or reason.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (May 9, 2012)

siesta said:


> I doubt your sample size is adequate enough to make any sort of market analysis. A few incidents of high sales don't equate to a necessary trend.



You may be right but the numbers are starting to add up in my mind. We'll see if it continues.


----------



## CalBoomer (May 9, 2012)

A 2BR Platinum ski week at Timber Lodge just sold on EBay for $9999, a rather unusual price. Wonder if the bid was from the seller who was hoping to get at least $10,000. In any event, that is not an up-tick.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 9, 2012)

I just bought an ocean pointe silver for $1,325 but it included closing cost. That seems very low to me but I think there are more silvers being dumped out of desperation.


----------



## chkvtzn (May 11, 2012)

In November of 2011, I came to terms, with an owner, for a rental at Ocean Pointe for the last week in March...2BR 4th floor of the Dolphin building, Ocean Front unit, for $1750 for the week. We stayed there 3-22 to 3-29, had a great time...very nice property. However, seeing that I rented this for only $360 over the annual MF fees, I am inclined to keep renting rather than owning.


----------



## chkvtzn (May 11, 2012)

Yes.....I do see an uptick in prices that auctions on Ebay were ending at in November and December. But that time of year is usually when prices are their lowest b/c owners get their MF bill and they are due in January. So, there seems to an increased supply at that time of year.


----------



## gblotter (May 11, 2012)

I don't see it.

Less than a month ago, an Annual 2BR Ocean View week at Ko'Olina sold on eBay for just $8,217 (with free closing costs too)!

see http://www.ebay.com/itm/251038577544

This represents a new low price for a prime Ko'Olina Ocean View week.

The previous low price was $10,500 12/30/2011 http://www.ebay.com/itm/110798255793


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 11, 2012)

chkvtzn said:


> In November of 2011, I came to terms, with an owner, for a rental at Ocean Pointe for the last week in March...2BR 4th floor of the Dolphin building, Ocean Front unit, for $1750 for the week. We stayed there 3-22 to 3-29, had a great time...very nice property. However, seeing that I rented this for only $360 over the annual MF fees, I am inclined to keep renting rather than owning.



You had to have ended up on the 4th floor of the Dolphin after the fact. When you rent you don't receive a specific unit or floor. Ocean Pointe assigns the unit the day you show up but you they take the preference request 30 days out. They told me if you are renting from an owner you are very low on the priority list. That being said I recently rented an ocean front studio off Redweek for $500 for the week of 4/12-4/19. The reservation was made with a high floor guarantee but Ocean Pointe was very specific that since I was renting I was not guaranteed anything and I was low priority. I ended up on the 6th floor of the Sailfish building so I was happy and I also wondered how I could have been on the 6th floor if the original reservation being a high floor guarantee had no weight as they claimed.


----------



## chkvtzn (May 11, 2012)

I paid the last $250 to the owner after I returned home from Ocean Pointe. We had agreed that if I did not receive a 'minimum' type of room I wanted, then the rent would have just been $1500, the amount I paid b/4 we arrived. I was happy to pay the extra $250!!

My owner owns multiple weeks, and they left their name on the reservation with ours, but obviously never came the week we were there. Ocean Pointe was not aware that we were renters until several days after we arrived. We were in fact treated like multi-week owners regarding our room assignment.

I think I upset some owner there. I was sitting next to him at the pool one day and I told him about our unit and that we were renting and that it was our first itme ever to OP.....etc. He said he bought direct from Marriott 7-8 years ago, paid like $30K, and has never had any view other than the parking lot.


----------



## SueDonJ (May 11, 2012)

chkvtzn said:


> I paid the last $250 to the owner after I returned home from Ocean Pointe. We had agreed that if I did not receive a 'minimum' type of room I wanted, then the rent would have just been $1500, the amount I paid b/4 we arrived. I was happy to pay the extra $250!!
> 
> My owner owns multiple weeks, and they left their name on the reservation with ours, but obviously never came the week we were there. Ocean Pointe was not aware that we were renters until several days after we arrived. We were in fact treated like multi-week owners regarding our room assignment.



Oh!  I remember!  Didn't you talk about that arrangement here before?  I think it's one of the most creative rental terms I've ever heard, and am so glad for you and the owner that it worked to your advantage!  Very nice.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 11, 2012)

chkvtzn said:


> I paid the last $250 to the owner after I returned home from Ocean Pointe. We had agreed that if I did not receive a 'minimum' type of room I wanted, then the rent would have just been $1500, the amount I paid b/4 we arrived. I was happy to pay the extra $250!!
> 
> My owner owns multiple weeks, and they left their name on the reservation with ours, but obviously never came the week we were there. Ocean Pointe was not aware that we were renters until several days after we arrived. We were in fact treated like multi-week owners regarding our room assignment.
> 
> I think I upset some owner there. I was sitting next to him at the pool one day and I told him about our unit and that we were renting and that it was our first itme ever to OP.....etc. He said he bought direct from Marriott 7-8 years ago, paid like $30K, and has never had any view other than the parking lot.



That's because he bought "ocean side" view. Those are the only two views at Ocean Pointe. If you own ocean side you will only get ocean side no matter what (unless you exchange). If you own ocean front you are guaranteed ocean front.


----------



## chkvtzn (May 11, 2012)

@gblotter...I do not disagree with you. However, I think Hawaii properties have their own unique issues.....soaring property taxes and no option other than expensive airfare and renting a car.....among others.

Ocean pointe platinum, in Nov and Dec, was going for less than $6K (both oceanside and Oceanfront). The other night an OFront ended at $7100. Go figure!!

@saintsfanfl.....yes I know. Just sayin I would rather annually pay $360 over MFs for Oceanfront than own oceanside for $30K.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 11, 2012)

chkvtzn said:


> @gblotter...I do not disagree with you. However, I think Hawaii properties have their own unique issues.....soaring property taxes and no option other than expensive airfare and renting a car.....among others.
> 
> Ocean pointe platinum, in Nov and Dec, was going for less than $6K (both oceanside and Oceanfront). The other night an OFront ended at $7100. Go figure!!
> 
> @saintsfanfl.....yes I know. Just sayin I would rather annually pay $360 over MFs for Oceanfront than own oceanside for $30K.



Of course but nobody has to pay $30k! I think the comparison should be $360 over the fees vs the one that just sold for $7,100 + closing. I still agree with you I would rather rent during platinum season than even pay the $7,500 but some would rather have the confirmed reservation a year in advance. Both are pretty fair deals if you want to stay there. On the other hand $30k for the right to pay a fee that has doubled in 10 years is insane. Buying enough MVC points to stay for a week is even more insane. Most have a lot more money than I do so to each his own.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (May 11, 2012)

My comments are based on recent Newport Coast sales that have definitely on the rise, as well as some Maui units that seemed to do well. Also on the low end some Grande Ocean bronze and silver weeks were getting higher offers.


----------



## Steve (May 15, 2012)

Manor Club weeks have been trending upwards as well.  While there are still plenty of good deals out there on Marriott weeks on eBay, I feel that there is a slight uptick in the sales prices overall.

Steve


----------



## larryallen (May 15, 2012)

I don't see it.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (May 23, 2012)

Here's another example of higher prices on ebay on the resorts I track, a GO Gold OS. This a bankrupcy deal so the price would be even higher were it not. Clean ones like these were selling for less than $5k in the last 6 months.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160803094878&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 23, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> Here's another example of higher prices on ebay on the resorts I track, a GO Gold OS. This a bankrupcy deal so the price would be even higher were it not. Clean ones like these were selling for less than $5k in the last 6 months.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160803094878&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123



Exactly but that may have nothing to do with a "real" price drop. As others have already indicated in this thread you have to wait until the end of the year where you have a complete cycle before possibly coming to that conclusion. It is not valid to compare the recent low sales of Nov & Dec to the the current sales because historically there is a higher volume for sale with lower prices shortly before maintenance fees are due. If you wanted to make a valid comparison right now you have to compare to what happened around the same time last year, not the previous 6 months. 

But since this has already been stated several times I think you are convinced no matter what that prices are going up. Perhaps you have seen enough to stock up on a load of timeshares and resell them at a later date for a profit?


----------



## MOXJO7282 (May 23, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Exactly but that may have nothing to do with a "real" price drop. As others have already indicated in this thread you have to wait until the end of the year where you have a complete cycle before possibly coming to that conclusion. It is not valid to compare the recent low sales of Nov & Dec to the the current sales because historically there is a higher volume for sale with lower prices shortly before maintenance fees are due. If you wanted to make a valid comparison right now you have to compare to what happened around the same time last year, not the previous 6 months.
> 
> But since this has already been stated several times I think you are convinced no matter what that prices are going up. Perhaps you have seen enough to stock up on a load of timeshares and resell them at a later date for a profit?



I respect and appreciate your comments, at least thse that don't imply my ignorance, but I am convinced because I track certain Marriotts on a daily basis.  This isn't my first time around the block so I do know a little something about the markets I own and track.

How about you? Do you track ebay at all, specifically high-end OF resorts or just listen to the chatter about it and make your comments based on that? If you do track them maybe we can compare notes. 

As for buying and selling I do when it a great deal. In 2011 I bought 2 GO Gold OFs for $7500 each and sold one for $13.5k but primarily my thing is renting these great Marriott TSs.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 23, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I respect and appreciate your comments, at least thse that don't imply my ignorance, but I am convinced because I track certain Marriotts on a daily basis.  This isn't my first time around the block so I do know a little something about the markets I own and track.
> 
> How about you? Do you track ebay at all, specifically high-end OF resorts or just listen to the chatter about it and make your comments based on that? If you do track them maybe we can compare notes.
> 
> As for buying and selling I do when it a great deal. In 2011 I bought 2 GO Gold OFs for $7500 each and sold one for $13.5k but primarily my thing is renting these great Marriott TSs.



That is awesome you have done well with it and for the watchful eye there can definitely be some good opportunities. I just completely disagree with your OP statement that the market now favors the seller and "Not so much for buyers..". It sure looks like it is still a buyers market and your example of a recent uptick is, in my humble opinion, based an a small sample and too small of a time frame. Timeshares differ from something like the commodities market because for a given auction there are very few potential buyers. Two buyers that are all of a sudden in the market for some premium timeshares can temporarily swing the price. That said I still feel like what is at play in your analysis is the cyclical supply and demand of premium timeshare availability in the middle of the year versus around Nov & Dec. We will just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (May 23, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> That is awesome you have done well with it and for the watchful eye there can definitely be some good opportunities. I just completely disagree with your OP statement that the market now favors the seller and "Not so much for buyers..". It sure looks like it is still a buyers market and your example of a recent uptick is, in my humble opinion, based an a small sample and too small of a time frame. Timeshares differ from something like the commodities market because for a given auction there are very few potential buyers. Two buyers that are all of a sudden in the market for some premium timeshares can temporarily swing the price. That said I still feel like what is at play in your analysis is the cyclical supply and demand of premium timeshare availability in the middle of the year versus around Nov & Dec. We will just have to agree to disagree.



Where did I say ebay now favors the seller? I just suggested there was an uptick in the sales prices and that trend doesn't favor buyers. That is all I suggested. Ebay clearly still is a buyers market and that won't change given the nature of timed auctions and eager sellers.

This happens to me all the time for some reason. I got into an arguement this year because someone interpret something I said to suggest I was promoting direct sales when all I said was when I and many others bought direct it wasn't as bad as it is now because there were major points incentives that no longer exist and this guy start clamouring that I said direct sales were OK. It was actually amusing.

Now you're quite frankly doing the same thing, putting words in my mouth.

No worries I'm sure its not mean-spirited but you are interpreting my comments inaccurately.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 23, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> these trends are positive indicators for Marriott owners looking to sell.





MOXJO7282 said:


> Not so much for buyers though.



Yes I definitely interpreted your words to mean it is a sellers, or becoming a sellers, market. I understand now what you mean but I am still very bearish on a potential positive trend in the resell market. The reason I feel this way is because the market is constantly flooded with regretful buyers. But you do make a very valid side point in that there can be a timeshare undervalued based on it's rental potential.


----------



## pwrshift (May 23, 2012)

I'm at a non-Marriott TS right now...traded a Beachplace studio into a 2 bdrm for the Victoria Day holiday week at Cranberry Waterfront Suites in Collingwood, Ontario..about 75 miles north of Toronto.

Timeshare sales are not dead here...we Marriott owners seem to think what happened to Marriott TS values and sales was for all TS companies. 

We went to a Cranberry TS party Monday night that was quite a lavish affair...live entertainment, hot and cold foods, drinks, and more than 100 people in attendance...most of them owners upgrading their RTU ownership here...for as much as $20k a pop...and most of whom were over retirement age.  I've been to a lot of Marriott meetings which are nothing in comparison...this was a well orchestrated fun party and there was no negativity here!

Not one salesperson was pushing sales...it was all to show appreciation to their 'members'.  We were invited because we were staying here and I think they thought we were members.  Members at the party asked me what I owned and I said Marriott...to which most said they heard Marriott was in a bad way and that owners were selling weeks for a few hundred dollars. 

My impression was that there's money up here in the boonies of Canada where timeshare sales and construction is plentiful.  In fact, they are right now expanding the building we are in, building a huge entertainment centre for members, and another TS building right on the waterfront marina area which will be connected to this building.  

What I observed here is kind of refreshing, actually, considering that construction is dead at Marriott.  It does make you wonder what Marriott is up to long term as to me it just looks like they are selling leftovers until they can get out.

Brian


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 23, 2012)

Marriott is not remotely close to getting out of the timeshare business. They are still building right now. You couldn't be more misinformed. People selling timeshares for a few hundred has much less to do with Marriott and more to do with the lack of cash for maintenance fees.


----------



## FractionalTraveler (May 24, 2012)

I couldn't agree more.

Just because people see a few hundred listings on e-bay at any given timeframe doesn't mean the timeshare business is weak or broken.

This is just a natural reflection of consumers exercising a planned exit strategy in the lifecycle of their current reality.

Overall the fractional real estate marketplace in the USA has shown signs of a recovery in 2012.


----------



## pwrshift (May 24, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Marriott is not remotely close to getting out of the timeshare business. They are still building right now.



How exciting!  Perhaps you could be specific on how many brand new timeshares Marriott is building right now, and where...but don't list places they started years ago and didn't finish.


----------



## kjd (May 24, 2012)

I think most of us would like to see Marriott finish what they started before they build new resorts.  The have several unfinished resorts leaving owners with broken promises of amenities yet to come.  While I have no proof I think a large part of the eBay sales are owners dumping units because of not wanting to pay maintenance fees.  That will eventually end.

However, the dumping may continue because of Marriott's restrictions on taking re-sales into the DC.  Owners who bought re-sale and have changed their vacation needs also want out if they didn't join the DC when it was available.  They have depressed the re-sale market.  Without being able to access Marriott points and other amenities those low-ball sales on eBay are probably an accurate reflection of true value.  I think the low prices are more or less here to stay unless a new catalyst changes things.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 24, 2012)

Marriott's scale back and halting of projects in 2009 was not due to Marriott specifically. It was industry wide. It would be unwise to build faster than you can sell and when the real estate market crashed, so did just about everything else. The gradual recovery will take time and has already greatly improved. Marriott isn't going anywhere. As evidence of the recovery and growth they have started back up some of the projects that were halted in 2009 and they recently announced the development of another tower in Vegas. Yes, I realize these are continued or development of existing resorts but I consider that "building". Starting back up these existing projects and further expansion of existing resorts is the logical step before venturing into the concept projects.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 24, 2012)

kjd said:


> Without being able to access Marriott points and other amenities those low-ball sales on eBay are probably an accurate reflection of true value.



It actually depends on the individual owner and what their purpose is in ownership as to what the true value is. It's relative. For someone buying the resale to stay at that resort with no need to trade and more than comfortable with the maintenance fees, the true value is probably much higher and they are getting a real bargain. I personally think the ability to trade for MRP is a waste of value. MRP's are a ripoff imho. The flexibility that comes with all the extra stuff not available in a resale today is a nice perk, but I will take the steep discount and do without.


----------



## kjd (May 24, 2012)

As one uses the Marriott system more one finds that the MRP's are not a rip-off.  There are many places, particularly large cities, where there are no timeshares within a reasonable distance.  Atlanta GA being one of them, Chicago being another.  MRP's give a timeshare owner the convenience of longer stays at Marriott products.

International travel is also great using MRP's for stays like the Grand Flora in Rome.  With international currency rates higher than the US dollar there is quite a saving using MRP's.  When you consider that MRP's are also tied to the Marriott credit card, a timeshare owner would be foolish not to take advantage of being able to convert to MRP's.  I think it's fair to say that most TUGGERS work the system by using MRP'S as one option in planning travel.  MRP's are earned in a number of ways including incentives when many of us purchased pre-construction.


----------



## pwrshift (May 24, 2012)

I do think resale prices are due for an uptick.  Pretty hard to go much lower than $1 that I've seen for some Marriott's over the last couple of years.  I have a friend who bought 3 Manor Club weeks for about $2000 total.  Given time he'll probably make money.   Resales are a great investment in a vacation lifestyle as long as Marriott doesn't continue to kill it all with annual MF increases way higher than the inflation rate.  I remember a few years back where MMC had an increase of about 16% one year followed by about 12% the next.  A Marriott cash grab that left a bad taste with every owner there.

And when every current DC legacy member eventually sells his TS the resale market expands and Marriott's DC plan loses it...unless Marriott comes up with some way of letting them join free of charge in the future.  At some point I think this is likely.

Regarding MR points, it used to cost me about $500 to trade my MMC and MCV weeks in for 110,000 points each...today it's about $1000 each -- 100% more!  Still, if I traded 5 of them I'd have 550,000 MR points for about $5000...about the same cost of buying just one business class ticket to Rome.  So, with careful planning, the MR packages (air+hotel) are still a good deal compared to cash in cases where you want business/first class plane seats and Category 6-8 hotel stays for 5-7 nights...without having to break the bank.  Given time, and no increase in the number of MR points you can get for your week, Marriott will kill that too and lose their Freddie rating.

Back when I was buying my 6 weeks there were several new developments going up, enhancing ownership for all owners everywhere.  Today there are only unfilled promises and higher costs.  JMHO


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 24, 2012)

kjd said:


> As one uses the Marriott system more one finds that the MRP's are not a rip-off.  There are many places, particularly large cities, where there are no timeshares within a reasonable distance.  Atlanta GA being one of them, Chicago being another.  MRP's give a timeshare owner the convenience of longer stays at Marriott products.
> 
> International travel is also great using MRP's for stays like the Grand Flora in Rome.  With international currency rates higher than the US dollar there is quite a saving using MRP's.  When you consider that MRP's are also tied to the Marriott credit card, a timeshare owner would be foolish not to take advantage of being able to convert to MRP's.  I think it's fair to say that most TUGGERS work the system by using MRP'S as one option in planning travel.  MRP's are earned in a number of ways including incentives when many of us purchased pre-construction.



What you are saying as far as converting a unit to MRP goes makes very little financial sense. Some people bought developer before they were informed and now make the best of it. That's different. I can buy resale, give up the MRP conversion perk, pay cash for the hotel, and have THOUSANDS left over. Marriott charges way too much for units (everyone has to earn their commission) and then charges way too many MRP points for stays. I often times use Priceline to stay at Marriott hotels that would cost 10k-20k in MRP's and I only pay $40-$50. The MRP conversion is a nice perk as a flexible option but it is by no means worth the price of admission.

The credit card is a completely different issue and should definitely be taken advantage of.

I was in the pool last summer and was discussing timeshare purchases with another gentlemen. He was talking about Marriott trying to get him to buy a fifth week. I casually mentioned I paid next to nothing on a resale outside of Marriott and he immediately had his nose in the air and said "but you can't convert your week to Marriott Reward Points".


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 24, 2012)

pwrshift said:


> Regarding MR points, it used to cost me about $500 to trade my MMC and MCV weeks in for 110,000 points each...today it's about $1000 each -- 100% more!  Still, if I traded 5 of them I'd have 550,000 MR points for about $5000...about the same cost of buying just one business class ticket to Rome.  So, with careful planning, the MR packages (air+hotel) are still a good deal compared to cash in cases where you want business/first class plane seats and Category 6-8 hotel stays for 5-7 nights...without having to break the bank.



I am just not seeing the math. You are giving up 5 weeks AND paying $5k? Don't you have to add the value of the weeks to the $5k? I am ignorant on how much they are charging for a package you are describing.


----------



## pwrshift (May 24, 2012)

kjd said:


> MRP's are earned in a number of ways including incentives when many of us purchased pre-construction.



I agree...when I bought MSE and MCV pre-construction for about $17,000 each they came with 500,000 MR points .... And back then a million MR points stretched very far.  The trips i got for them saved me as much as i paid for the TS compared to what the fancy travel would have cost.  Today, they still work...you just have to plan a little harder.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 24, 2012)

pwrshift said:


> I agree...when I bought MSE and MCV pre-construction for about $17,000 each they came with 500,000 MR points .... And back then a million MR points stretched very far.  The trips i got for them saved me as much as i paid for the TS compared to what the fancy travel would have cost.  Today, they still work...you just have to plan a little harder.



One of the problems is that Marriott adjusts the point redemption amounts based on point redemption demand, and not based on how much it costs to stay there. Each year they adjust the reward categories. It seems to me that the more MRP's that are out there, the more it will cost on average to stay. This seems very unfair to the consumer and has resulted in the increase of categories during a time when overall hotel demand has dropped. They are ripping off their most important customer base.


----------



## pwrshift (May 24, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> I am just not seeing the math. You are giving up 5 weeks AND paying $5k? Don't you have to add the value of the weeks to the $5k? I am ignorant on how much they are charging for a package you are describing.



Sorry you feel out of the loop about the details on package use.  See this link for more details.  http://www.marriott.com/rewards/usepoints/morepack.mi

Nothing in life is free.  Using Marriott VISA, trading weeks etc., and building enough MR points for two Cat 7 pkgs for 330,000 MR points (less if you use the 5 night stay pkgs) gives you 240,000 FF miles and 14 nights in quality hotels...a little more if you want Cat 8.  I value 2 business class seats about $12,000 if paying cash, and add another $8,000 value for 2 weeks in upscale downtown Marriott hotels in Paris, London, Rome, etc.  It's rather nice to check out and not face bills for upwards of $20,000 for a second honeymoon or trip of a lifetime in world class cities.  I'd trade that two week experience for 5 weeks making my own beds in a TS anytime.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 24, 2012)

I have to mention this because it is both funny and is an example of the human desire for a "reward". A friend of mine has 1.4 million reward points but never uses them. Him and his wife pay cash for every Marriott hotel stay because they "don't want to waste them".


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 24, 2012)

pwrshift said:


> Sorry you feel out of the loop about the details on package use.  See this link for more details.  http://www.marriott.com/rewards/usepoints/morepack.mi
> 
> Nothing in life is free.  Using Marriott VISA, trading weeks etc., and building enough MR points for two Cat 7 pkgs for 330,000 MR points (less if you use the 5 night stay pkgs) gives you 240,000 FF miles and 14 nights in quality hotels...a little more if you want Cat 8.  I value 2 business class seats about $12,000 if paying cash, and add another $8,000 value for 2 weeks in upscale downtown Marriott hotels in Paris, London, Rome, etc.  It's rather nice to check out and not face bills for upwards of $20,000 for a second honeymoon or trip of a lifetime in world class cities.  I'd trade that two week experience for 5 weeks making my own beds in a TS anytime.



I hear you but I guess I am too young and poor so it does not apply to me. I definitely am not in the market for a $20k trip because I cannot afford it.


----------



## kjd (May 24, 2012)

This discussion is exactly why you can't generalize about value.  One size doesn't fit all.  We took two European vacations when the British pound was $1.99 and the Euro was $1.50 to the US dollar.  The entire vacation paid with MRP's from the credit card, the pre-construction incentives and converting weeks into points.  The only problem we had were the food costs.  (Average $100 for two per night  at an English pub)  What doesn't work for you can work for others.  Everyone has different economic circumstances.  You go with what works best for you.

Having bought two timeshares directly from Marriott and two timeshares on the re-sale market  I chose to put all of them in the DC.  That may not make economic sense to some but it gets us plenty of options for vacations.  Besides, we're not running a bank--we're taking the vacations we want to take.  And, we're taking them on our terms.  That trumps any supposed savings, IMO.


----------



## Saintsfanfl (May 24, 2012)

kjd said:


> This discussion is exactly why you can't generalize about value.  One size doesn't fit all.  We took two European vacations when the British pound was $1.99 and the Euro was $1.50 to the US dollar.  The entire vacation paid with MRP's from the credit card, the pre-construction incentives and converting weeks into points.  The only problem we had were the food costs.  (Average $100 for two per night  at an English pub)  What doesn't work for you can work for others.  Everyone has different economic circumstances.  You go with what works best for you.
> 
> Having bought two timeshares directly from Marriott and two timeshares on the re-sale market  I chose to put all of them in the DC.  That may not make economic sense to some but it gets us plenty of options for vacations.  Besides, we're not running a bank--we're taking the vacations we want to take.  And, we're taking them on our terms.  That trumps any supposed savings, IMO.



Very good point. Something that saves time and is convenient can be very valuable to some people. There are those that would not sell their free time for $1k per hour and it is hard to blame them. Time is something you will never get back.


----------



## gblotter (May 31, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> I have to mention this because it is both funny and is an example of the human desire for a "reward". A friend of mine has 1.4 million reward points but never uses them. Him and his wife pay cash for every Marriott hotel stay because they "don't want to waste them".


Funny and true.

My in-laws are in this same boat.  I'm sure they will die with hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of used MRPs.

While our MRP balance is not in the millions, we still use them judiciously at lower-end properties like Fairfield Inn and SpringHill Suites to make them last longer.


----------



## gblotter (May 31, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> ... but I am convinced because I track certain Marriotts on a daily basis.


Your observations may be limited to certain geographies/markets.

I also track Marriott resales on eBay for Hawaii and Utah.  I have not observed any recent rise in selling prices.  However, I certainly have noticed a significant drop in the number of listings.  At present you will find only two for Hawaii and one for Park City.  This is odd and unprecedented.  In an effort to reduce fraudulent activities, I think eBay is making it harder for people to list timeshares on eBay (a timeshare seller has to go through a cumbersome pre-approval process with eBay now).

If the number of eBay listings continues to be small, that could eventually drive selling prices higher - but I don't see it now.


----------



## MOXJO7282 (May 31, 2012)

gblotter said:


> Your observations may be limited to certain geographies/markets.
> 
> I also track Marriott resales on eBay for Hawaii and Utah.  I have not observed any recent rise in selling prices.  However, I certainly have noticed a significant drop in the number of listings.  At present you will find only two for Hawaii and one for Park City.  This is odd and unprecedented.  In an effort to reduce fraudulent activities, I think eBay is making it harder for people to list timeshares on eBay (a timeshare seller has to go through a cumbersome pre-approval process with eBay now).
> 
> If the number of eBay listings continues to be small, that could eventually drive selling prices higher - but I don't see it now.



It could be that its just the ones I track. 

I sold a Marriott Newport Coast on ebay this year and they've made it easier IMHO so I don't think its that. I think the shortage is because the market has stabilized and there aren't as many desperate sellers.


----------



## gblotter (Jun 1, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> I think the shortage is because the market has stabilized and there aren't as many desperate sellers.


May I assume that you have also noticed a drop in the number of eBay listings for the locations you track?

Or is this just an anomaly for Hawaii and Utah?


----------



## MOXJO7282 (Jun 1, 2012)

gblotter said:


> May I assume that you have also noticed a drop in the number of eBay listings for the locations you track?
> 
> Or is this just an anomaly for Hawaii and Utah?



For sure I've noticed much less listings. So naturally less listings means more bidders per auction and that usually translates into higher bids.


----------



## gblotter (Jun 4, 2012)

MOXJO7282 said:


> For sure I've noticed much less listings. So naturally less listings means more bidders per auction and that usually translates into higher bids.


Perhaps my observation was just a fluke.  The number of eBay listings for Hawaii and Utah seems to be adjusting to more "normal" levels now.

Currently I see:

Hawaii = 6 listings
Park City = 2 listings


----------



## celosch (Jun 5, 2012)

These two recent auctions were somewhat surprising...

2br Platinum Harbour Lake: $4000. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370616937481?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

2br Platinum Grande Vista Lockoff: $3050
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261034430382?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## channimal (Jun 5, 2012)

celosch said:


> These two recent auctions were somewhat surprising...
> 
> 2br Platinum Harbour Lake: $4000.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370616937481?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> ...



I just made mention of that in another thread.  I was very surprised to see the HL go for $4k!  and presumably *not* a l/o


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 5, 2012)

channimal said:


> I just made mention of that in another thread.  I was very surprised to see the HL go for $4k!  and presumably *not* a l/o



This would have been an error in the add. All owners at Harbour Lake have the ability to lock off. Not all units are lock off units however, so lock offs are reserved on a first come first serve basis. Our Harbour Lake gold unit that we bought on Ebay also didn't indicate in the ad that it was lock off capable. It may have even indicated that it wasn't a lock off. Not sure if this led to the low final price we paid or not. We have successfully locked off several times since buying.


----------



## celosch (Jun 5, 2012)

So when making your reservation, you can request a lock off?  What is the deciding factor in who gets them, first come/first served?


----------



## dioxide45 (Jun 5, 2012)

celosch said:


> So when making your reservation, you can request a lock off?  What is the deciding factor in who gets them, first come/first served?



Yes, first come first serve. Harbour Lake only has a small number of lock off units. So for prime weeks it is important to call right at 12 or 13 months out when inventory is released it you want to lock off. Grande Vista is not as much of a problem since only a very few units are non lock off. Though it is still important to call on the inventory release day since they all can be booked quickly.


----------



## larryallen (Jul 17, 2012)

A Ko Olina (2 bedroom annual OV) ended at just over $10k yesterday on the Bay so no prices are not up. They had been solid at $12k for about 2 years and lately one ended around $9,500 and now this one for $10,208. With closing costs you are all in at $11k. I was going to bid $10k but forgot to set my snipe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190701907562?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_5438wt_730


----------

