# SDO platinum



## patty5ia (Apr 25, 2011)

Is there any problem to buying a platinum SDO?  Since most people want to visit Scottsdale during the winter months, I would think this would be a benefit?

How about trading value?


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## DeniseM (Apr 25, 2011)

The problem with buying a Plat week is that these are hard to find and far more expensive because people buy them to requalify them for 148,100 Staroptions - so you will pay a lot more for a Plat week.

As far a visiting Scottsdale during the winter months - 1-52 floating weeks can be used any time of year, and have the exact same opportunity to reserve winter weeks as a Plat week.

Trading power - Plat weeks do have a higher designated trading power in II - Plat, whereas floating weeks are Gold Plus.  However, in online trade tests the Plat and Gold Plus weeks see the exact same deposits.  Common sense says that a Plat week should have more trading power in an on-going request, but since Starwood has decided to do all II trades behind closed doors, there is no way to determine that for sure.

For most people, the minor difference in trading power isn't worth the higher price you will pay for a Plat week.


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## patty5ia (Apr 25, 2011)

What if you get a really good price?


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## DeniseM (Apr 25, 2011)

patty5ia said:


> What if you get a really good price?



How much is a really good price?

What's your goal in buying a week at SDO?


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## pacman (Apr 25, 2011)

patty5ia said:


> What if you get a really good price?



IMHO, a really good price would be $1000 for a 2 bdrm l/o. I've posted before, that again, in my opinion, paying $500 - $1000 more for a platinum is worth it.  Others will not agree.

pacman


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## DeniseM (Apr 25, 2011)

Thanks Pacman - you own a Plat week, right?

You may be right - it's so hard to know what goes on behind the scenes with II and Starwood.

Have you had any exceptional trades with your Plat week?


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## pacman (Apr 25, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Thanks Pacman - you own a Plat week, right?
> 
> You may be right - it's so hard to know what goes on behind the scenes with II and Starwood.
> 
> Have you had any exceptional trades with your Plat week?



Denise

Yes, I own 2-EOY 2 bdrm platinum weeks.  My trades in II have been very good - 3 exchanges into 2 bdrm units at WKORV & WKORVN (with my one bedroom deposit), but I don't think this is anything better than I would have got with a 1-52 floater. I've also deposited a week with SFX, so will wait and see how that works for me.

pacman


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## jerseygirl (Apr 25, 2011)

If there is any truth to the rumors about allowing resale buyers into SVN, a true platinum would have significantly more value than a float 1-52.  It may not happen now, but someday ... maybe.  

Would I pay $5000 more for a true platinum?  No way.  Would I pay $1000 more?  Probably.


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## pacman (Apr 25, 2011)

jerseygirl said:


> If there is any truth to the rumors about allowing resale buyers into SVN, a true platinum would have significantly more value than a float 1-52.  It may not happen now, but someday ... maybe.
> 
> Would I pay $5000 more for a true platinum?  No way.  Would I pay $1000 more?  Probably.



I agree completely.

pacman


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## l2trade (Apr 25, 2011)

jerseygirl said:


> If there is any truth to the rumors about allowing resale buyers into SVN, a true platinum would have significantly more value than a float 1-52.  It may not happen now, but someday ... maybe.
> 
> Would I pay $5000 more for a true platinum?  No way.  Would I pay $1000 more?  Probably.



I agree.  Best of luck for anyone trying to find an annual 2 bedroom true platinum.  I've tried for a some time now because of speculation that SVN situation may change.  Most weeks at SDO were sold as float 1-52.  I believe there may be truth to rumors about SVN, and if so, I will need to decide whether or not gold plus would be worth it to me to join.  I think not, but I would want to study all the details rather than be closed minded, if and when, SVN membership becomes an option.  As it stands now, I see no difference exchanging via II with gold plus versus true platinum.  SDO 1-52 float is a great trader and has paid for itself many times over.  And, this rumor remains a rumor.


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## TDS (Apr 25, 2011)

pacman said:


> IMHO, a really good price would be $1000 for a 2 bdrm l/o. I've posted before, that again, in my opinion, paying $500 - $1000 more for a platinum is worth it.  Others will not agree.
> 
> pacman



I believe $1000 for a 2 Br l/o platinum at SDO would be an exceptional price.  I've been watching for one of these and haven't seen one for less than $2000 over the past several months.  They are very rare and there seems to be notable demand for them.


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## SDKath (Apr 25, 2011)

TDS said:


> I believe $1000 for a 2 Br l/o platinum at SDO would be an exceptional price.  I've been watching for one of these and haven't seen one for less than $2000 over the past several months.  They are very rare and there seems to be notable demand for them.



I agree.  I own 3 of them (or is it 4?) and I bought them for $6500, 5500, 2500 and 1950, respectively.  Of course prices for TSs have really come down from my first one, almost 3 years ago, to my last one, in the Summer of 2010.  But in any case, I cannot ever see it going for much less than about $2000.  It is WELL worth it to me though.  The MFs are consistently low and the SO value (when retro'd) is hugely better than the 1-52 floats!

If you want to trade in II, I believe the trading power is the same as the 1-52s. I own both and I could trade equally well with either one....

Katherine


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## patty5ia (Apr 26, 2011)

I was watching a deluxe one bedroom annual platinum on ebay.  No one was bidding, so I bid the opening bid of $99.00 within half hour of closing.  Someone got it for $100.00 in the last seconds.   I think that was a good deal.  What do you think?  Did a Tugger win this auction? I really wanted this to use and not to trade.


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## DeniseM (Apr 26, 2011)

If it's really a Plat week - they got a great deal!  I suspect that there was something in the Auction that put people off.  Can you post a link to the auction?

If you are buying SDO to use, there is no need to buy a Plat week, since a 1-52 floating week can reserve ANY week of the year.


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## DeniseM (Apr 26, 2011)

Is this it?  http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-DESERT...10313270513?pt=Timeshares&hash=item48401cbcf1

It's appears to be a floating week.



> Annual Floating Platinum week 	weeks #1-52



The seller should not have listed it as  both "platinum" and "Weeks #1-52."  Typical  sloppy ebay Ad.


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## patty5ia (Apr 26, 2011)

I know that I don't need a plat for my own use (I already own at SDO), but it was listed as 1-52 floating weeks. The listing # was 31031370513.


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## DeniseM (Apr 26, 2011)

Yes, that's the auction - but it's not a Plat week.

Plat weeks don't float 1-52.  A 1-52 floating week is a Gold Plus week.

Plat weeks are for 1-21 and 51-52.


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## sb2313 (Apr 26, 2011)

With some patience you can pick up 1 bedroom platinums pretty cheap. Last summer I picked up a eoy large 1 bedroom for 12.50 plus $199 closing and it included 2010 usage, all of which was spelled out in the eBay ad.  I'm hoping that rumor does come true some time as the 81k star options for 630$ fees would be nice!


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## pathways25 (Apr 26, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Is this it?  http://cgi.ebay.com/SHERATON-DESERT...10313270513?pt=Timeshares&hash=item48401cbcf1
> 
> It's appears to be a floating week.
> 
> ...



Actually, if the unit number listed in the ad is accurate, then it is in fact a 3-season platinum unit even though it's shown as a 1-52 floater.

I see lots of 3-season platinum 1 bedroom units go through eBay with no bids.  It's the 3-season platinum 2 bedroom units that are in demand for requals.


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## Nickfromct (Apr 26, 2011)

sb2313 said:


> With some patience you can pick up 1 bedroom platinums pretty cheap. Last summer I picked up a eoy large 1 bedroom for 12.50 plus $199 closing and it included 2010 usage, all of which was spelled out in the eBay ad.  I'm hoping that rumor does come true some time as the 81k star options for 630$ fees would be nice!



I second that on the EOY 1 Br platimum units. I paid like $35 for one plus closing costs and already have traded for Harborside (1 br.) and Princeville (2br.) during the bulk deposits.


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## grgs (Apr 26, 2011)

pathways25 said:


> Actually, if the unit number listed in the ad is accurate, then it is in fact a 3-season platinum unit even though it's shown as a 1-52 floater.
> 
> I see lots of 3-season platinum 1 bedroom units go through eBay with no bids.  It's the 3-season platinum 2 bedroom units that are in demand for requals.



This is correct--true plat 1 bedroom units show up fairly regularly and don't usually go for more than 1-52 float units.  2 bedroom plat units are much rarer, though.

Glorian


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## sui (Apr 26, 2011)

I really want a true platinum 2br l/o, I've watched ebay daily from January to March, but found nothing.


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## pathways25 (Apr 26, 2011)

sui said:


> I really want a true platinum 2br l/o, I've watched ebay daily from January to March, but found nothing.



I've been watching eBay for a year and in that time there has been only 1 3-season platinum 2BR unit listed and SDKath got it.


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## pacman (Apr 26, 2011)

pathways25 said:


> I've been watching eBay for a year and in that time there has been only 1 3-season platinum 2BR unit listed and SDKath got it.



I picked up a true plat EOY 2 bedroom on ebay last June for $500.

pacman


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## SDKath (Apr 26, 2011)

pathways25 said:


> I've been watching eBay for a year and in that time there has been only 1 3-season platinum 2BR unit listed and SDKath got it.



Sorry!    For me, those weeks are worth a lot so I think I sniped it with a top bid of over $3000 because I really wanted it! 

I am done though so feel free to grab the next one.   

Katherine


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## Twinkstarr (Apr 26, 2011)

SDKath said:


> I am done though so feel free to grab the next one.
> 
> Katherine



Hmm, how many times have we heard that? :rofl:


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## alohakevin (Apr 27, 2011)

*Confused newbie*



pacman said:


> Denise
> 
> Yes, I own 2-EOY 2 bdrm platinum weeks.  My trades in II have been very good - 3 exchanges into 2 bdrm units at WKORV & WKORVN (with my one bedroom deposit), but I don't think this is anything better than I would have got with a 1-52 floater. I've also deposited a week with SFX, so will wait and see how that works for me.
> 
> pacman



You traded half of your 2bedroom for a 2 bedroom at wkorv


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## DeniseM (Apr 27, 2011)

alohakevin said:


> You traded half of your 2bedroom for a 2 bedroom at wkorv



Yes, with an instant online exchange, you can trade a 1 bdm. for a 2 bdm.  (But not with an ongoing request.)

Because of the priority for Starwood to Starwood trades in Interval International, if you search the online inventory, and see a 2 bedroom unit, you can usually reserve it with a 1 bdm. unit by making an instant online exchange.  

That is one of the reasons that SDO is such a popular trader.  You can take a 1 bdm. SDO week with a maintenance fee of $530, and trade it for a 2 bdm. with a maintenance fee of $2,200 at WKROV.


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## alohakevin (Apr 27, 2011)

*Learning*

Thanks denise. There is a lot to learn


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## alohakevin (Apr 27, 2011)

DeniseM said:


> Yes, with an instant online exchange, you can trade a 1 bdm. for a 2 bdm.  (But not with an ongoing request.)
> 
> Because of the priority for Starwood to Starwood trades in Interval International, if you search the online inventory, and see a 2 bedroom unit, you can usually reserve it with a 1 bdm. unit by making an instant online exchange.
> 
> That is one of the reasons that SDO is such a popular trader.  You can take a 1 bdm. SDO week with a maintenance fee of $530, and trade it for a 2 bdm. with a maintenance fee of $2,200 at WKROV.



1 will they separate the 2brms automatically are do you need to specify

2 we own a2brm and 2brm lo in key west so we could get 4 weeks at wkorv


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## YYJMSP (Apr 27, 2011)

alohakevin said:


> 1 will they separate the 2brms automatically are do you need to specify
> 
> 2 we own a2brm and 2brm lo in key west so we could get 4 weeks at wkorv



You need to separate each of the bedrooms in the 2BR lock-off unit yourself.  You should see 3 distinct entries for the 2BR and each of the 1BR sides at Interval.  For example, our SVR Cascades 2BR LO shows as "2BED", "1BEDA" and "1BEDB" -- there's also a "0BED" entry, which I have no idea what it is...

The standard 2BR can't be divided (you should only see 1 distinct entry for that unit at Interval).  For example, our SVR Spas 2BR shows as "2BEDSD".

So you're looking at 3 possible exchanges with your particular ownership.


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## alohakevin (Apr 27, 2011)

*2bdrm*

Thanks. I always thought 1bdrm exchanged to 1week with II


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## SDKath (Apr 27, 2011)

alohakevin said:


> Thanks. I always thought 1bdrm exchanged to 1week with II



Only on requests.  If you see a week pop up when you are logged into II (like the sightings posted on TUG), you can grab a 2br with a 1br or studio.  That has always been the major advantage to using II.  I always deposit my Marriott Shadow Ridge (Palm Springs area) week into II and break it up, only to trade back in to MSR with the studio side into a 2br LO!  It's very sweet because I still have the 1br left over for a trade into NCV 2br!  

Katherine


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## krj9999 (Apr 28, 2011)

Speaking of, there is an annual 2BR platinum advertised on Ebay right now, with no closing costs.  Didn't confirm unit number though, although they have it listed.  FYI if interested in bidding.



l2trade said:


> I agree.  Best of luck for anyone trying to find an annual 2 bedroom true platinum.  I've tried for a some time now because of speculation that SVN situation may change.  Most weeks at SDO were sold as float 1-52.  I believe there may be truth to rumors about SVN, and if so, I will need to decide whether or not gold plus would be worth it to me to join.  I think not, but I would want to study all the details rather than be closed minded, if and when, SVN membership becomes an option.  As it stands now, I see no difference exchanging via II with gold plus versus true platinum.  SDO 1-52 float is a great trader and has paid for itself many times over.  And, this rumor remains a rumor.


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## Tfish (May 1, 2011)

Are all of the 2 BR LO's?

Thanks

Mike


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## DeniseM (May 2, 2011)

Yes - All 2 bdms. are lock-offs and each side is a 1 bdm.


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## cdmc2010 (May 2, 2011)

I have a newbie question.

Why is the platinum week (1-21, 51-52) better than Gold plus week that float 1-52 as Gold plus weeks cover the same period as platinum but not the other way round?

Thanks!

chris


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## DeniseM (May 2, 2011)

cdmc2010 said:


> I have a newbie question.
> 
> Why is the platinum week (1-21, 51-52) better than Gold plus week that float 1-52 as Gold plus weeks cover the same period as platinum but not the other way round?



Because Starwood and II have assigned Plat weeks a higher trading value.


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## jeff01 (May 2, 2011)

*SDO 2BD Platinum auction ended early*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...1&si=5NABn1UV7oKiJhCaTY6DezBxFus%3D&viewitem=

FYI. . . The SDO 2BD Platinum auction mentioned above was ended early by the seller, last I checked it had about 20 bids and was around $600 with still a couple days left to go.


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## sui (May 2, 2011)

jeff01 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...1&si=5NABn1UV7oKiJhCaTY6DezBxFus%3D&viewitem=
> 
> FYI. . . The SDO 2BD Platinum auction mentioned above was ended early by the seller, last I checked it had about 20 bids and was around $600 with still a couple days left to go.



I was planning to bid on it


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## grgs (May 2, 2011)

I had my eye on it, too.  

I wonder if a Tugger got it?


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## ada903 (May 2, 2011)

grgs said:


> I had my eye on it, too.
> 
> I wonder if a Tugger got it?


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## JanT (May 2, 2011)

I KNEW it, you little sneak!!!  As soon as I saw the auction had ended early I knew you had moved in for the "kill."   



ada903 said:


>


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## ada903 (May 2, 2011)

You are funny!  I actually picked up two units this weekend, both two bedroom platinums, annual.  I have not seen any in a long time and now all of a sudden two of them.  I had just sold all of my SDO floaters 1-52 and here I go again.. I figure I can easily trade them with II or use them on spring break, and in case they invite folks to join SVN someday... Why not! It was worth paying a bit extra!



JanT said:


> I KNEW it, you little sneak!!!  As soon as I saw the auction had ended early I knew you had moved in for the "kill."


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## sui (May 2, 2011)

Congrats ada, wish I could grab one the next time, but I'm not in a rush since retro is not any part of my plan in the next two years.


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## ada903 (May 2, 2011)

I am not going to retro either, I was already missing my SDO's I sold, and these were great replacements.


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## jeff01 (May 2, 2011)

How do you get the seller to end an auction early?  I’ve seen other auctions end early but never quite understood how or why.  Can you just use the "ask a question" link and send the seller a message through eBay with an offer asking that they accept it immediately and then cancel the auction?  Would eBay even allow something like this or does it violate one of their policies?  

Also, how does ending the auction early benefit the seller?  Now that they know what your max bid was going to be it would seem they would be better off just letting the auction continue in hopes of getting even more, especially when the auction already has several bidders.


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## DeniseM (May 2, 2011)

I was looking for two weeks at the same resort.  I bought one on ebay, and watched for the same company to have another one.  When it popped up, I emailed my contact at the company, and they stopped the auction and sold me the 2nd week for the same price I paid for the first one.


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## ada903 (May 2, 2011)

I worked with those sellers before, and they have the weeks listed in other places too, not just on eBay, but for higher prices... I met a few actual agents that work for PCC's.  You can negotiate.  I tried a few times and sometimes they wanted too much, so I dropped out.  But this weekend it worked out.  I already sent payments in and signed the contracts today. I paid more than you would pay for a floater 1-52, that's for sure.  What would a two bedroom plat sell for?  I have not seen one in a long time.  I thought it was affordable for us, so I went for it. 




jeff01 said:


> How do you get the seller to end an auction early?  I’ve seen other auctions end early but never quite understood how or why.  Can you just use the "ask a question" link and send the seller a message through eBay with an offer asking that they accept it immediately and then cancel the auction?  Would eBay even allow something like this or does it violate one of their policies?
> 
> Also, how does ending the auction early benefit the seller?  Now that they know what your max bid was going to be it would seem they would be better off just letting the auction continue in hopes of getting even more, especially when the auction already has several bidders.


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## SDKath (May 2, 2011)

jeff01 said:


> How do you get the seller to end an auction early?  I’ve seen other auctions end early but never quite understood how or why.  Can you just use the "ask a question" link and send the seller a message through eBay with an offer asking that they accept it immediately and then cancel the auction?  Would eBay even allow something like this or does it violate one of their policies?
> 
> Also, how does ending the auction early benefit the seller?  Now that they know what your max bid was going to be it would seem they would be better off just letting the auction continue in hopes of getting even more, especially when the auction already has several bidders.



Except most timeshares go for like $1 and very few companies (or bidders) realize the difference between the 2 different SDO types.  So it's better if they let a buyer who offers a certain amount grab the sale than risk having the auction close for a very low amount!  

Katherine


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## ada903 (May 2, 2011)

You are right.  It takes a certain audience to know the difference between the true plat and the floater 1-52.  For me it won't make any difference because I will never buy to retro, I will continue exchanging with II, but I wanted to have the option if joining SVN is offered, to take advantage.  I even wonder if they ever invite SDO to join, if they will offer 148,100 for true plat or they will just assign 81,000 to all SDO units that float in platinum or all year, to make it equitable. It might all be a worthless gamble. 



SDKath said:


> Except most timeshares go for like $1 and very few companies (or bidders) realize the difference between the 2 different SDO types.  So it's better if they let a buyer who offers a certain amount grab the sale than risk having the auction close for a very low amount!
> 
> Katherine


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## jeff01 (May 3, 2011)

This is a little off topic but I’m hoping someone can provide some insight to what I encountered last year when purchasing my EOY 2BD WKV.  I had already owned 2 other units that I purchased directly from Starwood so I had a pretty good idea how their system worked and knew what I was looking to purchase.  However, this was my first experience dealing with eBay so I really did not know what to expect from them but had done enough research that I felt reasonably comfortable giving it a try.

I was originally bidding on an EOY Even usage, 2BD WKV unit and was the 2nd highest bidder at auctions end.  The next day I get a second chance offer form the seller saying the winning bidder decided not to complete the sale and did I want to purchase it for my highest bid amount?  In the interim the same seller listed and identical unit except it was for Odd year usage.  Since I actually preferred to have Odd year usage I called the seller and offered to purchase the Odd unit for my bid price on the Even unit.  The seller looked up the current auction on eBay (for the Odd unit, which still had several days to go) and told me he could not cancel the auction because there was already a bid on the unit.  In the end I decided not to take the second chance offer on the Even year unit and ended up bidding on and winning the Odd year unit for a few hundred dollars less.

At that time the sellers explanation for not canceling the auction seemed to make sense but after reading all this I’m puzzled.  Is this just a case of the sellers doing whatever they want to and they make the rules up as they go along?


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## YYJMSP (May 3, 2011)

jeff01 said:


> The seller looked up the current auction on eBay (for the Odd unit, which still had several days to go) and told me he could not cancel the auction because there was already a bid on the unit.  In the end I decided not to take the second chance offer on the Even year unit and ended up bidding on and winning the Odd year unit for a few hundred dollars less.
> 
> At that time the sellers explanation for not canceling the auction seemed to make sense but after reading all this I’m puzzled.  Is this just a case of the sellers doing whatever they want to and they make the rules up as they go along?



To end an auction early, you first have to cancel any bids on the auction, and specify the reason that you are cancelling the bid (usually "item no longer available").

The problem was that if the seller then let you bid, and ended the auction early in your favour, it would look funny to eBay -- essentially, it would probably appear that the auction was rigged in your favour.


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## patty5ia (May 4, 2011)

I'm kinda sorry I started this thread......I lost some auctions. I still like SDO - a great place to stay in Scottsdale.


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## ada903 (May 4, 2011)

With or without this thread the outcome would be the same - we addicted tuggers are on eBay anyway... Some buying, some watching.  Don't worry there are plenty SDO's to go around, the next deal is around the corner 



patty5ia said:


> I'm kinda sorry I started this thread......I lost some auctions. I still like SDO - a great place to stay in Scottsdale.


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## nodge (May 5, 2011)

ada903 said:


> . . . Don't worry there are plenty SDO's to go around, the next deal is around the corner



Here's another fish in the SDO annual 2 BR L/O true platinum (week 1-21, 50-52) sea.

-nodge


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## Love2TS (May 6, 2011)

There have been so many SDO units for sale for $1 and even with decreased closing costs and throwing in the MF for the sale year sometimes there are no bidders. Why do these sell so cheap on ebay?


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## DeniseM (May 6, 2011)

Love2TS said:


> There have been so many SDO units for sale for $1 and even with decreased closing costs and throwing in the MF for the sale year sometimes there are no bidders. Why do these sell so cheap on ebay?



It's not just SDO - there are all kinds of nice timeshares on ebay for $1.

Most of the SDO weeks that don't sell are off-season, so they are not good traders, and who wants to go to AZ in the summer when it's 120?  It's really only the Plat & Gold-plus weeks that sell well


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## ada903 (May 6, 2011)

Anyone want to make a prediction on this one? I say it will end at $1,750 plus closing costs.



nodge said:


> Here's another fish in the SDO annual 2 BR L/O true platinum (week 1-21, 50-52) sea.
> 
> -nodge


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## K2Quick (May 6, 2011)

ada903 said:


> Anyone want to make a prediction on this one? I say it will end at $1,750 plus closing costs.



I'm going to predict $2,800 plus closing.  Recent 2 bed 1-52 units have been going for $1,500 on ebay.


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## K2Quick (May 6, 2011)

Love2TS said:


> There have been so many SDO units for sale for $1 and even with decreased closing costs and throwing in the MF for the sale year sometimes there are no bidders. Why do these sell so cheap on ebay?



The auctions that end for $1 all typically one-bed units.  There have been a couple of $1 true platinum one-bed units I've been watching that have been re-listed a couple of times with no bids.  The demand for one-bed units is a lot less than what it is for two-bed units.


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## ada903 (May 6, 2011)

Many of the gold plus 1-52 annual 2 bdr that sold for $1,200-$1,500 had free closing and/or 2011 usage for free, which inflates the true sale price.  



K2Quick said:


> I'm going to predict $2,800 plus closing.  Recent 2 bed 1-52 units have been going for $1,500 on ebay.


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## patty5ia (May 6, 2011)

Yes, I am sorry I started this thread and focused all these posts on SDO.  I love this resort and wanted to get a platinum (or 1-52 float) 2 bedroom for a cheap price.  Now these is too much publicity.  I guess I'll have to wait........

The cheaper prices have been for small one bedrooms, eo years, or seasonal
units.


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## ada903 (May 6, 2011)

There are periodical threads about SDO in the Starwood forum.  The true plat 2 bdr is rare and more expensive, but a floater 1-52 is common and can be had for $1,000 with closing costs included, there is almost always at least one auction on eBay featuring the 1-52 two bedroom float.  I don't know why you think that people are buying because of your thread... We have been buying and watching SDO auctions for years.



patty5ia said:


> Yes, I am sorry I started this thread and focused all these posts on SDO.  I love this resort and wanted to get a platinum (or 1-52 float) 2 bedroom for a cheap price.  Now these is too much publicity.  I guess I'll have to wait........
> 
> The cheaper prices have been for small one bedrooms, eo years, or seasonal
> units.


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## pathways25 (May 6, 2011)

patty5ia said:


> Yes, I am sorry I started this thread and focused all these posts on SDO.  I love this resort and wanted to get a platinum (or 1-52 float) 2 bedroom for a cheap price.  Now these is too much publicity.  I guess I'll have to wait........
> 
> The cheaper prices have been for small one bedrooms, eo years, or seasonal
> units.



If you're not buying to retro, you're probably better off with a 1-52 floater anyway.  They (apparently) trade just as well in II and they're a lot cheaper and easier to buy.  I see tons of 1-52 2BR units going through eBay with many finishing under $500.


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## abdibile (May 8, 2011)

I admit that I started looking for SDO on eBay again when seeing this thread after not having done that for months...


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## ada903 (May 8, 2011)

Well, I am not bidding on this one, I will stay out.  I already got two, selfish me.


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

I swear the first time I looked, I remember it said all closing costs paid by seller.  Now, it looks like the buyer pays that $540.  

Am I imagining things?  Or, has this listing been revised?  

No matter, this one will likely go to someone reading this thread, and it won't go cheap!  It is funny (and sad) that a 'floating weeks 1-21 & 50-52 only' is so much more in demand resale than an 'any week 1-52 float'.  Starwood didn't introduce seasons until the latter phases of SDO.  Most everything is deeded 1-52 float and that is why they are so much more common to find.  

As I see it:

1. Getting a home resort reservation for the week you want in your season is really EASY at SDO.  Compare that to reserving at something like Marriott NCV, where owners must set an alarm to call within the first minutes a year ahead to score the most popular weeks.  Verdict: No difference

2. The 1-52 float offers complete flexibility for home resort reservations.  Arizona is unique in that the warm climate causes the lowest value weeks to coincide with school vacations.  This helps balance out owner demand and make Scottsdale a year-round destination.  Verdict: 1-52 offers greater flexibility

3. Both trade the same in II.  I have yet to see any noticeable difference.  Verdict: No difference

4. SDO true platinum is worth more than 1-52 float in SVN.  However, the cost to retro it, isn't worth it.  IMHO, there are much better resale options if SVN is what you are after (hint: WKV anyone?).  SDO true platinum may also do better in RCI, but again, there are much better timeshares to buy for RCI (hint: not Starwood).  Verdict: true platinum, but mostly irrelevant

SDO is a great place to stay and exchanges awesome on II.  For that reason, I often recommend it as a cheap trader.  I do not recommend a newbie fight over a true platinum, as a cheap 1-52 deal is always right around the corner.  In the interest of full disclosure, I am watching this 'true platinum' listing and plan to bid and/or snipe on it.  I know we are all bidding against each other and I really don't want to own yet another timeshare.  At the higher range of what I plan to bid, I really hope I lose!!!  However, I refuse to sit back and let this one go cheap.  Let the fishing begin!


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

patty5ia said:


> Yes, I am sorry I started this thread and focused all these posts on SDO.  I love this resort and wanted to get a platinum (or 1-52 float) 2 bedroom for a cheap price.  Now these is too much publicity.  I guess I'll have to wait........
> 
> The cheaper prices have been for small one bedrooms, eo years, or seasonal
> units.



The biennial 2BD 1-52 is not a bad choice.  The yearly admin fee for buying biennial is only like $20.  IMHO, it is financially a better choice than an annual 1 bedroom.  Plus, it let's you own SDO with about half the annual commitment.

You will have plenty of opportunity to pick up anything at SDO on ebay, except the true platinum 2 bedroom, with little competition.  Some of us here, like me, watch SDO listings on ebay all the time.  Without your thread, Nodge or I or somebody else would have posted a new thread about this annual 2 bedroom true platinum listing.  Those are rare enough to see that they don't go unnoticed.  I check at least twice a week on SDO, although I almost never bid.  Best of luck!


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## mstoyanov (May 8, 2011)

Don't worry about this thread - people on the market for true platinum annual 2BR SDO are completely different from people who are going to be bidding on 1-52 floaters simply because people needing unit for retro are ready to pay above what regular 1-52 floaters goes for.
In my opinion you should go for 1-52 floater. It makes no sense to pay the premium for true platinum unless you are looking to retro.
I myself bought a true platinum but since it was 2BR EOY I paid absolutely no premium over what a 1-52 floater 2BR EOY was going at that time and I never intend to visit the resort.
It also turned out that there is no practical differences in trading between platinum and gold plus since Starwood continue with bulk banking. If one day Starwood stops bulk banking and we have to rely on ongoing searches it will probably matter but I see this as a very low probability now that they have absolute control over what is deposited even for units that are not part of SVN.
Also if you plan to visit the resort you may even be better with 1-52 floater in case you decide to go for weeks outside of the platinum season. 


patty5ia said:


> Yes, I am sorry I started this thread and focused all these posts on SDO.  I love this resort and wanted to get a platinum (or 1-52 float) 2 bedroom for a cheap price.  Now these is too much publicity.  I guess I'll have to wait........
> 
> The cheaper prices have been for small one bedrooms, eo years, or seasonal
> units.


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## ada903 (May 8, 2011)

L2trade, is it still within your target price range?


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## DanCali (May 8, 2011)

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/winnerscurse.asp


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

ada903 said:


> L2trade, is it still within your target price range?



Yes, unfortunately it is...


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## patty5ia (May 8, 2011)

"There are periodical threads about SDO in the Starwood forum. The true plat 2 bdr is rare and more expensive, but a floater 1-52 is common and can be had for $1,000 with closing costs included, there is almost always at least one auction on eBay featuring the 1-52 two bedroom float. I don't know why you think that people are buying because of your thread... We have been buying and watching SDO auctions for years."

Well, this thread has certainly had many responses - that's why I think people MAY be more interested........

I already own at SDO. Thinking of more.......


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

DanCali said:


> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/winnerscurse.asp



Funny!  We are above ada903's prediction.  My prediction is we will easily pass the $2,800 + closing that K2Quick predicted, with bidding time left to spare.  

The best way to predict what will happen is to have skin in the game.  I won't say what I think this will close at because I don't want to reveal the maximum amount I am willing to pay to win it... JUST TO PROVE MY POINT.  As I have said many times before, there is no sense in trying to buy a 'true platinum' versus a '1-52 float'.  We are already past a fair market premium, IMHO, yet I predict we will go higher.  Winner's Curse is right!!!  We are above the price at which I'd be happy to win it at.  I will go higher and I am willing to pay surprisingly more, but above the current price point, common sense says that I will be happy when I lose.  YMMV!

Warning to those who are not seasoned Starwood TUG users:  BEWARE of this ebay auction!!!  You can easily pick up a 1-52 SDO float for cheap, it exchanges on II just as well, you won't be able to tell the difference in practice, and, most importantly, I probably won't be bidding against you.  Again, YMMV!


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## ada903 (May 8, 2011)

My prediction for $1,800 was based on rational expectations, and it represented how much I would pay for it.

I can't believe it's already over 2k.  Indeed irrational.  I wonder if it's only tuggers bidding on it.


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

patty5ia said:


> "There are periodical threads about SDO in the Starwood forum. The true plat 2 bdr is rare and more expensive, but a floater 1-52 is common and can be had for $1,000 with closing costs included, there is almost always at least one auction on eBay featuring the 1-52 two bedroom float. I don't know why you think that people are buying because of your thread... We have been buying and watching SDO auctions for years."
> 
> Well, this thread has certainly had many responses - that's why I think people MAY be more interested........
> 
> I already own at SDO. Thinking of more.......



Hi Patty5ia,
Last time there was an annual 'true platinum' 2 bedroom SDO on eBay, we had a similar thread.  Does anyone know which thread that was?  If you didn't start this thread, I would be posting my similar comments on another.  My advice is to sit back and watch this Winner's Curse unfold.  But, if you want, you are welcome to join in and bid against me and others.  I already know the maximum price I will not go above, it is well more than I (or anyone else) should reasonably pay for it in this market and if you bid above that, this timeshare will be yours.  

Good luck,
L2Trade

PS - I am hoping my maximum price won't be revealed until I try to snipe this at the end.  However, at the quick rate in which the bids have risen today, I may be out of the game before I really get started.  I will not bid more than what I already decided I am willing to overpay in order to make my point, period!  Ada903 gave what I feel is a fair and reasonable current market value...  however this auction and any other known ones like it, will easily go above that amount, until folks realize what a great value the 1-52 float truly represents.  IMHO, the 1-52 2BD SDO are worth more than the almost nothing they sell for, but I already own enough of those and don't want to risk bidding on that because I would probably win.  This auction, I am pretty sure I will lose, but I'm willing to take that risk.  :hysterical:


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## YYJMSP (May 8, 2011)

ada903 said:


> I can't believe it's already over 2k.  Indeed irrational.  I wonder if it's only tuggers bidding on it.



I think this thread may have focused a small pool of very interested buyers on that particular auction, driving the price up...

If you go look at the bid times on the auction, you can figure out where some bidders "max price" were -- one got out at $2400, another got out at $2000, both well above the $1800 prediction


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

YYJMSP said:


> I think this thread may have focused a small pool of very interested buyers on that particular auction, driving the price up...



Agree, and I am one of those interested buyers.  However, even without this thread, I would still be bidding on 'true platinum' just because I think the 1-52 are WAY undervalued in comparison.  I check eBay for SDO all the time.  And, like I said before, I am sure we would be talking about this auction, just like we did last time.  When is the last time an annual 2 bedroom 'true platinum' SDO sold on eBay and nobody here posted about it???  I think it only happens when the seller doesn't know what they are selling and gives incorrect float/unit number info.

Plus, the recent "RUMOR" may be driving additional interest, but again it is just a rumor right?  :ignore:  LMAO!


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

On 2nd thought, every time I post here, the price goes up...  As I said less than 1 hour ago, "My prediction is we will easily pass the $2,800 + closing that K2Quick predicted, with bidding time left to spare."  Well, we are now at $2,850 + closing, and please remember, it takes at least two bidders to drive the current bid higher!  LMAO!  

For those who were quietly watching this and hoping to win it, please don't be mad.  I am doing you a favor.  I am showing you now what would have happened if you sat hopeful, thinking you might be able to snipe this for a reasonable price at the end.  I am saving you time and false hopes!  We are already above what two people here felt would be the closing price.  

Any other predictions???


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## ada903 (May 8, 2011)

L2trade, do you know some insider information the rest of us don't know?  Like SDO joining Starwood or something?  This doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  I don't think you are an emotional bidder, you do not seem the type.


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## ada903 (May 8, 2011)

It's the "RUMOR" that made me snatch the other weeks... I am going to hold on to them, and see what happens.



l2trade said:


> Agree, and I am one of those interested buyers.  However, even without this thread, I would still be bidding on 'true platinum' just because I think the 1-52 are WAY undervalued in comparison.  I check eBay for SDO all the time.  And, like I said before, I am sure we would be talking about this auction, just like we did last time.  When is the last time an annual 2 bedroom 'true platinum' SDO sold on eBay and nobody here posted about it???  I think it only happens when the seller doesn't know what they are selling and gives incorrect float/unit number info.
> 
> Plus, the recent "RUMOR" may be driving additional interest, but again it is just a rumor right?  :ignore:  LMAO!


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## jade18 (May 8, 2011)

*What is the "rumor" ?*

Can someone fill me in on what is the "rumor", regarding SDO ?


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## ada903 (May 8, 2011)

That SVN may possibly consider inviting either SDO or SBP to join.


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

ada903 said:


> L2trade, do you know some insider information the rest of us don't know?  Like SDO joining Starwood or something?  This doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  I don't think you are an emotional bidder, you do not seem the type.



L2Trade does not have insider information.  I do not work for Marriott or Starwood or anyone else in the timeshare industry, except for myself and for everyone on TUG for free through the open exchange of information and 'rumors'.  Everything I learn, you, as an informed consumer, can easily find out directly from the same kind of sources, by talking with phone agents, sales people, etc...

If you follow my posts, you may remember that I posted this right before the Marriott new system rollout.  I stand proudly by the 'big scoop' and accuracy of my post, which you can find here: 
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=927325&postcount=2384

SDO is already part of Starwood and SVN.  Right now, SDO resale owners can only join with a large retail purchase.  The rumor is just that, a rumor.  I do not recommend that anyone make buy or sell decisions based on a rumor.  I said most of what I have to say about this particular rumor, for now, here:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145778

Again, I do not recommend buying or selling ANY timeshare based on a RUMOR you read on the internet from me or anyone else.  Instead, call Starwood and ask around yourself.  This remains just a rumor and I have no detailed information about it, only personal speculation based on non-specific conversations about it with employees.  You could easily talk to the same employees and walk away with a different conclusion than mine.  It is not worth wasting money on a rumor.  (I say this bluntly at the same time I've disclosed that I am risking wasting money by bidding on this auction)  And, for the record, I uncovered many rumors that proved true about the Marriott system change in time to purchase 8+ months in advance, and still, I chose not to purchase and not to act on what I learned.  No regrets on that one!  Remember, if the rumor is flat wrong or the details not what you expected, it could be a COSTLY mistake!


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## ada903 (May 8, 2011)

I am just teasing you.  No one would be sharing insider info on tug, we are all speculating.  However just like you, I don't mind taking a bit of risk based on rumors and speculations. 



l2trade said:


> L2Trade does not have insider information.  I do not work for Marriott or Starwood or anyone else in the timeshare industry, except for myself and for everyone on TUG for free through the open exchange of information and 'rumors'.  Everything I learn, you, as an informed consumer, can easily find out directly from the same kind of sources, by talking with phone agents, sales people, etc...
> 
> If you follow my posts, you may remember that I posted this right before the Marriott new system rollout.  I stand proudly by the 'big scoop' and accuracy of my post, which you can find here:
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=927325&postcount=2384
> ...


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## tschwa2 (May 8, 2011)

I think anyone willing to buy at $2000-$3000 for a platinum SDO should send out inquires to a few brokers and individual owners on the usual resale sites.  About 2 years ago I was looking at SDO's.  I asked everyone advertising SDO what the deeded unit and week was regardless of whether it was being advertised as 1-52 or 1-21 and made offers for platinum units (not 1-52) at $2000.  Everyone countered me to the $3000-$4000 range or higher.  Six to eight months later at least 2 came back with "are you still interested at $2000?" Ebay is not the only game in town.


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

ada903 said:


> L2trade, do you know some insider information the rest of us don't know?  Like SDO joining Starwood or something?  This doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  I don't think you are an emotional bidder, you do not seem the type.



PS - Oh, but I am an emotional bidder, with logical limits...
See my post here:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1004287&postcount=16

You should watch me play Texas Hold 'Em...  I can be a tough competitor.  I can also be unconventional and quite entertaining along the way, regardless whether I win or lose.  If you look at the current bid on this auction, it is $3,050...  I feel that is too much money for what this is, rumor or not, but I will simply not lose to that price!!!  Because, in the scheme of things, $3k is worth it for the entertainment this 7 day auction brings.  Heck, I am spending more than that on airfare & MF for my next vacation...

PPS - I predict I will lose this auction and may even reach my max limit before the snipe.  I could be wrong, but I'm good, either way.  And, if I win, I don't care that I might have paid less by staying quiet and sniping at the last minute.  That strategy just isn't me, especially once folks are talking about an auction I'm also bidding on and strongly believe I will lose.


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## ada903 (May 8, 2011)

Well this auction spices up my week, that's for sure!


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## mstoyanov (May 8, 2011)

I predict that this auction will be re-listed and someone is bidding on it just for fun with no intention to complete transaction (maybe even from multiple accounts). Price is already more than what even true platinum 2BR annual unit is worth. I have seen 2 such platinum units in the last 6 months advertised here on Tug for less and I am sure if you search carefully and make offers one will find even more - these are rare but not THAT rare.
As for the rumors - if people believe that there was even 50% chance rumors to be true then they will be scooping all 1BR platinum units on EBay left and right rather than leaving these with no bids at $1.


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## l2trade (May 8, 2011)

mstoyanov said:


> I predict that this auction will be re-listed and someone is bidding on it just for fun with no intention to complete transaction (maybe even from multiple accounts). Price is already more than what even true platinum 2BR annual unit is worth. I have seen 2 such platinum units in the last 6 months advertised here on Tug for less and I am sure if you search carefully and make offers one will find even more - these are rare but not THAT rare.
> As for the rumors - if people believe that there was even 50% chance rumors to be true then they will be scooping all 1BR platinum units on EBay left and right rather than leaving these with no bids at $1.



If I win, I have absolutely every intention to complete this transaction, as I have done promptly every time I have ever won an auction.  I have only one eBay account, so at least one person has bid against me.  Yes, I am bidding for fun.  Participating in auctions should always be fun and this one is plenty of fun so far.  I am also bidding to win up to my maximum limit that I am ready to complete the transaction on.  I will not bid more than I am willing to pay and I have not bid my maximum yet, but unfortunately, at this rate, we may soon pass my limit before the sniping round.  If another bidder wins and does not pay, shame on them!  In the event of a non-paying buyer, the seller should report this person to eBay.


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## pathways25 (May 8, 2011)

mstoyanov said:


> I predict that this auction will be re-listed and someone is bidding on it just for fun with no intention to complete transaction (maybe even from multiple accounts). Price is already more than what even true platinum 2BR annual unit is worth. I have seen 2 such platinum units in the last 6 months advertised here on Tug for less and I am sure if you search carefully and make offers one will find even more - these are rare but not THAT rare.
> As for the rumors - if people believe that there was even 50% chance rumors to be true then they will be scooping all 1BR platinum units on EBay left and right rather than leaving these with no bids at $1.



I estimate that there are only 250 Platinum 2BR annual SDO weeks total in circulation.  I'll bet that regular readers of TUG control more than 10% of them.  Wouldn't it be funny if we somehow cornered the market on them?  

Just for perspective, the difficult to find ocean front center unit at WKORV has 624 weeks in circulation (including event weeks).  I don't know how many of those are EOY (if any).


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## grgs (May 9, 2011)

pathways25 said:


> I estimate that there are only 250 Platinum 2BR annual SDO weeks total in circulation.



There are 15 designated two bedroom "new units" x 24 Plat weeks (1-21, 50-52) which comes out to 360.  But, as you mentioned regarding WKORV, we don't know how many of the SDO two bedroom Plat units are EOY.  So your point is well taken--there aren't that many of them around.



pathways25 said:


> I'll bet that regular readers of TUG control more than 10% of them.  Wouldn't it be funny if we somehow cornered the market on them?



Ok, let's start totaling them up:

Ada has 2.

Next?


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## pathways25 (May 9, 2011)

grgs said:


> There are 15 designated two bedroom "new units" x 24 Plat weeks (1-21, 50-52)which comes out to 360.  But, as you mentioned regarding WKORV, we don't know how many of the SDO two bedroom Plat units are EOY.  So your point is well taken--there aren't that many of them around.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As you said, there are 15 units designated as 2BR x24 weeks of Platinum season.  Based on my research, 108990, 208788, 309192 and a few other individual weeks from other units were sold as EOY's, hence my estimate of 250 (give or take).

I have 2 and I believe SDKath has stated that she has 4.

Anyone else?


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## ada903 (May 9, 2011)

Yes, I have two.

How about the ones that got split and sold as one bedrooms and studios - are we discarding those from the total number available?


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## grgs (May 9, 2011)

ada903 said:


> Yes, I have two.
> 
> How about the ones that got split and sold as one bedrooms and studios - are we discarding those from the total number available?



Well, I would say yes, we're not interested in the 1 bedrooms.  Those units don't seem to command a premium.

Glorian


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## l2trade (May 9, 2011)

Under the 3 season system, there were 19 units sold as standard & 24 units sold as deluxe 1 bedrooms.  Annual MF are 58.37% and 68.67%, respectively, of the proportionate share for an annual two bedroom.  That percentage is set into the developer's CC&R amendment dating back from February of 1998.  It makes it effectively impossible to recombine 1 bedrooms back into two bedrooms without the additional fees.  So, I am not interested at all in 1 bedrooms!  YMMV, but eBay appears to reflects my sentiment.  I would choose a 2BD '1-52 float' versus 2 x 1BD 'true platinum', hands down.  

15 out of the 72 two-bedrooms fall under the 3 season system.  Let's ignore EOY for a moment and developer owned units, as I don't have those facts handy.  Simple math would be:

15 2BD seasonal units x 24 platinum weeks = 360 'true platinum' (with the other 420 weeks being gold or silver) 
57 2BD non-seasonal units x 52 weeks = 2,964 '1-52 float'

Assuming EOY splits are roughly the same, 360/2964 = ~12%...

Then, let's consider the owners of those 'true platinum' units.  How many are already in SVN and getting the full 148k SO (original and/or retro)?  I believe those owners are less likely than others to want to sell.

That is why 'true platinum' 2BD sightings are rare.


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## ada903 (May 9, 2011)

Since we are on calculating mood - one of the things I don't understand is this.  Assume SDO is invited to join.  Owners of 1-52 floats are offered 81,000 options for their two bedrooms, and owner's of season weeks are offered 148,100 options, 81,000 options or 56,300 options.  Let's assume everyone joins, just for the sake of it.  For a two bedroom unit full year usage, Starwood wants 5,624,800 options (24 plats * 148,100 + 20 gold * 81,000 + 8 summer * 56,300).  However, the float 1-52 owner's together only have 52 * 81,000 = 4,212,000 star optios for each week.  So SVN would give these owners fewer staroptions then they require in order to book those same units.  Is SVN going to pocket the difference?  It reminds me of the Marriott new system "skim".  I would  expect that the point allotment for a two bedroom for 52 weeks would equal the options necessary to exchange into the same two bedroom for 52 weeks, but there is an imbalance which would tilt the advantage to SVN.


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## l2trade (May 9, 2011)

ada903 said:


> Since we are on calculating mood - one of the things I don't understand is this.  Assume SDO is invited to join.  Owners of 1-52 floats are offered 81,000 options for their two bedrooms, and owner's of season weeks are offered 148,100 options, 81,000 options or 56,300 options.  Let's assume everyone joins, just for the sake of it.  For a two bedroom unit full year usage, Starwood wants 5,624,800 options (24 plats * 148,100 + 20 gold * 81,000 + 8 summer * 56,300).  However, the float 1-52 owner's together only have 52 * 81,000 = 4,212,000 star optios for each week.  So SVN would give these owners fewer staroptions then they require in order to book those same units.  Is SVN going to pocket the difference?  It reminds me of the Marriott new system "skim".  I would  expect that the point allotment for a two bedroom for 52 weeks would equal the options necessary to exchange into the same two bedroom for 52 weeks, but there is an imbalance which would tilt the advantage to SVN.



Yes, that sounds about right...  and your point being?  LOL!


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## ada903 (May 9, 2011)

My point being that if they invite SDO owners to join, SVN takes more than just membership fees - there is an imbalance between how much they get for the owners' usage and how much the 1-52 float owners get out of SVN. SVN would require more points to book the resort than awarding the owners of those weeks, and they would pocket the difference.


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## DanCali (May 9, 2011)

ada903 said:


> My point being that if they invite SDO owners to join, SVN takes more than just membership fees - there is an imbalance between how much they get for the owners' usage and how much the 1-52 float owners get out of SVN. SVN would require more points to book the resort than awarding the owners of those weeks, and they would pocket the difference.



If owners got the average points required to book a week in their deeded season then it's NOT like Marriott and there is nothing to pocket...


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## ada903 (May 9, 2011)

But they don't, that's precisely the point.  Not the owners of float 1-52 weeks.  The system would be fair only to the owners of season weeks.



DanCali said:


> If owners got the average points required to book a week in their deeded season then it's NOT like Marriott and there is nothing to pocket...


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## YYJMSP (May 9, 2011)

ada903 said:


> Since we are on calculating mood - one of the things I don't understand is this.  Assume SDO is invited to join.  Owners of 1-52 floats are offered 81,000 options for their two bedrooms, and owner's of season weeks are offered 148,100 options, 81,000 options or 56,300 options.  Let's assume everyone joins, just for the sake of it.



I wouldn't be surprised if you see a setup similar to SVR, where there are separate internal and external SO charts, and owners get some blended amount (in a "Gold Select" season) instead of the separate season allocations.

Pure speculation of course...


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## l2trade (May 9, 2011)

The rumor is about whether or not non-SVN resale owners are given an alternative method to join, beyond the existing method to retro a unit with a large retail purchase.  Regardless, when Starwood took over SDO, existing owners were offered the limited time option to join SVN.  As such, there are plenty of owners with 'gold plus / 1-52 floating' deeds that already belong to SVN.  There were no seasonal deeds prior to Starwood finishing the final phases of this property.  The SVN point charts and methodology already exists for SDO.  Changes to that goes beyond the current rumor and into the realm of pure speculation, IMHO.

For me, I am only interested in SVN if I get a like size for like size exchange, along with the benefit of much more inventory to choose from.  Even if I had a 'true platinum' and belonged to SVN, I might still prefer to trade it via II for the wider network and bonus weeks.  For 81k SO on my gold plus, no thank you, I will save myself the annual SVN membership fee.  I'd rather dump my ownerships than trade down in size every time.  Perhaps, could this be one factor adding to the number of eBay SDO dumps?  I've found that many owners (non-Tuggers) I chat with do not understand how to trade SDO with II.  Many of them either do SVN or go RCI, go figure...


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## l2trade (May 9, 2011)

I decided to reveal what my maximum snipe price on this eBay auction would be:  $5,000 - $540 closing = $4,460 max bid

Right now, I am not in the lead.  I am very happy with the current bidding because I believe it proves my point.  Potential buyers are so focused on buying only 'The Best Starwood Ownership value for SVN', that they are missing the really great buying opportunity for a cheap, name brand II trader, that is the vast majority of ownership at SDO - '1-52 float'.  So, I may or may not bid again on this 'true platinum'.  I may or may not try to snipe it if it remains at $3,500.  Since I won't go above a $4,460 bid and this auction is getting closer to that amount, it probably doesn't matter for me anyways.  

Why does L2Trade say $5,000?  Because that is what an annual SDO 'true platinum' is worth to me.  For comparison, $4,000 is about how much my annual SDO '1-52' is worth to me right now.  The $1,000 difference is my speculation around the SVN rumor...  that is, the possibility that someday I might be able to get access to the wider in-network inventory of SVN too.  Please understand, I am saying these values as 'what it is worth to me', NOT 'what I think is fair to pay given current market conditions'.  I am not in the market for an SDO '1-52' and if I were, given these lousy market conditions, I would try to obtain one of them for as close to nothing as possible and be patient.  If I were a seller, I'd probably have to accept whatever I could get, which is also close to nothing.  For the 'true platinum', IMHO, prices should not be that much different, except there are so few of them in total and people are caught up in the SVN marketing hype.  Again, IMHO, the really great value that is SDO can be obtained via home resort usage and II exchanges...  and for that, 'true platinum' or 'gold plus', it doesn't really matter at all.

I think the SDO '1-52' eBay auctions are really, really cheap.  Unfortunately, I already own too many timeshares.  So, I will not put my money where my mouth is.  I will not dare bid on any of the '1-52' auctions because I might end up winning every one. 

In my life, I've learned that paying a big premium to buy 'The BEST' does not make me as happy or as satisfied a customer as buying 'The MOST POPULAR', or 'The BEST VALUE'.  Of course, again, YMMV!


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## mstoyanov (May 9, 2011)

l2trade, you are saying that annual 2BR 1-52 SDO is worth $4000 to you. EBay values these at ~$1000 and there are so many regularly listed with small variation around it (white noise is minimal due to the large volume of these).

If you really put any hopes on "rumors" of SVN being offered without retro (even at 50% probability) then you should go and buy any true platinum 1BR small/large or 2BR EOY since despite that 1BR small+1BR large maintenance fees are more than 2BR LO MFs these are still one of the best values in terms of SO/$ (better than platinum WKV).

I bought true platinum 2BR EOY in 2009 for $500 with $0 premium over 1-52 floaters (in fact similar 1-52 floater 2BR EOY ended for slightly higher on the next day). And the only reason why I even waited to buy such true platinum instead of 1-52 was due to Starwood saying they will end bulk banking and in ongoing searches even minimal TP difference matter. But I honestly would not have paid even $200 premium over 1-52 floater.

In my opinion the only units that deserve premium are annual true platinum 2BR since for people ready to plunk $20k for retro time is often too valuable to wait and patiently search for good unit to retro so it is natural that they will pay more. In the grand scheme of things $2k over 1-52 floater is only 10% of the $20k one needs to spend and 1-52 floater is not suitable for retro anyway.

 But quite frankly I am really surprised at current auction prices - in the last 6 months there were 2 annual platinum 2BR listed here on TUG marketplace - the most recent one for $1500 (I presume the one that ada got) and several months ago another one for $2500. If I knew people put that much premium I would have bought these only to sell them to people like you. May be you should actually put "wanted" ad at these prices - it is highly probable that you will find seller willing to sell to you such unit. 

As for the rarity - the ones listed for sale are definitely less than 12% of all 2BR SDO units for 2 reasons: 1st original 1-52 floaters had RCI as default trading company and were not automatically part of SVN network while all 3 season ones were part of SVN by default. Starwood invited people to join after they bough resort from original developer but very few people enrolled (and there was some fee involved) and 2nd is that true platinum units were sold later and some of the owners are still having unpaid loans while most of the 1-52 floater owners had paid their ownership in full and they can sell it.




l2trade said:


> I decided to reveal what my maximum snipe price on this eBay auction would be:  $5,000 - $540 closing = $4,460 max bid
> 
> Right now, I am not in the lead.  I am very happy with the current bidding because I believe it proves my point.  Potential buyers are so focused on buying only 'The Best Starwood Ownership value for SVN', that they are missing the really great buying opportunity for a cheap, name brand II trader, that is the vast majority of ownership at SDO - '1-52 float'.  So, I may or may not bid again on this 'true platinum'.  I may or may not try to snipe it if it remains at $3,500.  Since I won't go above a $4,460 bid and this auction is getting closer to that amount, it probably doesn't matter for me anyways.
> 
> ...


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## l2trade (May 9, 2011)

mstoyanov - perhaps you should re-read my posts?

For example: "I am saying these values as 'what it is worth to me', NOT 'what I think is fair to pay given current market conditions'."


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## l2trade (May 10, 2011)

All right...  Who keeps bidding against me?!!!


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## DanCali (May 10, 2011)

l2trade said:


> All right...  Who keeps bidding against me?!!!



I thought your strategy was to snipe it last minute. If so why bid before then?

At this point it doesn't matter where this auction ends... my prediction is the high bidder will realize they overpaid and back out. This week will make it back to eBay in a few days.


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## l2trade (May 10, 2011)

DanCali said:


> I thought your strategy was to snipe it last minute. If so why bid before then?
> 
> At this point it doesn't matter where this auction ends... my prediction is the high bidder will realize they overpaid and back out. This week will make it back to eBay in a few days.



If I win, I am not backing out.  If I lose, I hope I get a 2nd shot at it.  I may or may not try to snipe it.  My maximum limit remains the same if I resume bidding.  I am debating about bidding again to gain the lead tonight or just waiting until it gets closer.  I cannot snipe unless I use an automated program because I am busy working when this auction closes.  It should be clear from all my posts that I lack a sound bidding / sniping strategy.   

Who knows how long I will have to wait until I see another 'true platinum'.  At that point, I may be too late and then I might no longer be interested.  And, for those who might claim these are easy to find, I respectfully disagree.  Many people post 'platinum', but when you ask for the unit number and week, it is a 1-52.


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## Ken555 (May 11, 2011)

Well, since it's obvious you enjoy the entertainment value of this auction, given your comments on this thread, I say why stop? Bid as high as needed to win it! And, be sure to document every thought here so we can follow along with the twists and turns of your auction experience. Exciting!


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## l2trade (May 11, 2011)

To re-bid, or not to re-bid...  that is my question?  

All the naysaying posts have got me second guessing myself.  It's like "L2Trade, you are being an idiot"...  well I know that already, now don't I?  :hysterical: 

It is my gamble on the timing of a rumor, that may or may not be true.  And, it is my further speculation, based almost entirely on Marriott's new point system as an example, that there will be a limited window for weeks purchased beforehand.

How long do you think it will be before we see another 'true platinum' annual 2BD SDO?  Contrary to what some have said, I am only aware of SDKath's auction (which I lost) and ada903 stealthy double-pointer which I missed seeing (great job!)  

I think I may always do better in II by being flexible and traveling off peak, that is by measuring in free upgrades and bonus weeks.  However, I have changed my opinion and decided it would be nice to have one SVN as a convenient luxury to supplement my other ownerships.  I'm getting tired of settling for lesser destinations during the summer school breaks...  I want Kauai!  I'm not sure I would bite at the 81k StarOption level, but 148k is a no-brainer.  With the number of timeshares I already own, I don't want to bother myself with owning split units & EOY - that small stuff is for folks who aren't as addicted to timesharing as myself and want to minimize their commitments.  Not me!  

Now, of course, all of this rumor and speculation could be totally wrong and I could be wasting some extra one-time $$$.  That is the risk!  Even so, longer term, SVN retro may still happen someday.  And, regardless, I know that the TPU for 'true platinum' weeks in RCI should be higher than 'gold plus', as the season averages are higher.  It would be nice to hear reliable TPU verification from 'true platinum' owners on 2012 and forward RCI deposits.  With just gold plus, I'm not going to join RCI anytime soon.


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## l2trade (May 11, 2011)

Ken555 said:


> Well, since it's obvious you enjoy the entertainment value of this auction, given your comments on this thread, I say why stop? Bid as high as needed to win it! And, be sure to document every thought here so we can follow along with the twists and turns of your auction experience. Exciting!



Thank you! 

I am not a fan of eBay auctions which stay low on the radar until the last minute of sniping.  I bet that there are plenty of people reading this thread who were hoping I would shut the heck up, nobody else would see this auction and they could swoop in and snipe it cheap.  Well, guess what, almost every time I try sniping with a high in demand eBay auction, I either lose or overpay.  Well, heck, if I am going to overpay, I might as well enjoy the thrill of the experience, right?  Sniping, is so, BORING and anti-climatic!  Plus, I will be unavailable to snipe when this auction closes and refuse to sign up for a 3rd party sniping tool.  I wonder if some people naysaying the high price were hoping to get it cheap themselves.  C'mon, if this thing were listed for sale at $2,500, I know I wouldn't be the only one scrambling to make an offer, right?  Supply and demand!  I hope my postings have scared away the newbies and would-be snipers.  If you want to be frugal and get a good value, the 1-52 SDO float is all that!  You can buy those all day long without any competition from me.  But, this 'true platinum' auction is for the really big Starwood fans like me, that are ready to waste some extra dollars and take that risk for immediate gratification that might, hopefully, help me graduate to the next level of ownership.  And if not, I suppose I could go out and spend $20k+ to retro this week, right?  :rofl:


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## l2trade (May 11, 2011)

Where this auction stands now, I don't know if or what or when I should bid again...  I was hoping my rants would get my main competitor(s) to reveal themselves.  By reading this thread, it almost sounds like I am bidding against myself, I AM NOT!  I bet the last person who outbid me is reading this right now.  You know who you are...  By staying quiet in this competition, I promise you, that if I win, and if the rumor persists, I will try to buy the next 'true platinum' annual 2BD sighting too, just because I can.  I revealed that if I bid again, my max price will not be higher than what I already disclosed.  In hindsight, I am starting to regret revealing that amount.  I revealed it because when I did we were moving so fast towards my number that I thought I was going to have to shut up and watch from the sidelines.  LOL!  Who knows, I suppose I could type that bid in right now and still be a LOSER!  But with what others have said here and in PMs, I am beginning to second guess myself.  I think I'll wait a few more before I decide whether or not to take this auction up to the next level...


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## bryanphunter (May 11, 2011)

*1BR Platinum unit...*

There is a 1BR deluxe annual platinum with reduced closing costs on Ebay (about 8hours left).  No bids yet.


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## ada903 (May 11, 2011)

L2trade, you are really spicing up my boring week! Even my husband who knows nothing of timeshares and just signs the dotted line when I ask for it, he has been asking me how the auction is going! I too believe the day will come when SDO owners will be offered to join even if it's another five years from now.  The question is, how hard it will be by then to book peak seasons and resorts with options, as more resorts join and the competition for options exchanges gets stiffer.


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## l2trade (May 11, 2011)

bryanphunter said:


> There is a 1BR deluxe annual platinum with reduced closing costs on Ebay (about 8hours left).  No bids yet.



Yep, that is a great deal for somebody!  Not me!


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## l2trade (May 11, 2011)

ada903 said:


> L2trade, you are really spicing up my boring week! Even my husband who knows nothing of timeshares and just signs the dotted line when I ask for it, he has been asking me how the auction is going! I too believe the day will come when SDO owners will be offered to join even if it's another five years from now.  The question is, how hard it will be by then to book peak seasons and resorts with options, as more resorts join and the competition for options exchanges gets stiffer.



Thanks!  

Well, the only certainty in life is change.  I think more SVN members and resorts will make things better, not worse for SVN availability.  The reality is that only a small minority of owners will plan as early and as often as me.  And, if things get harder to book in SVN, imagine what it would look like in II?  And if I'm wrong, no matter, SVN members have the benefits of both worlds.  IMHO, as long as SVN is around with the new Starwood/II methodology, SVN owners will get a better shot than II at the peak seasons and resorts.  That is true today and, absent something major and unexpected like Starwood/SVN going away, it will likely be true in 5 years time.


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## levatino (May 11, 2011)

I wonder "if" owners are offered to buy membership, if there may be a prior one-year ownership window, to keep the offering consistent with Vistana's offer.

But....I don't see what Starwood has to gain from a business perspective from opening up SVN to resale owners.  It further weakens Developer sales by supporting the resale market.  The small cash infusion would be limited compared to developer sales.

Perhaps someone got a 'helpful' operator, who told him what would make him happy, and the board goes into an even deeper SDO fervor.  

Consumerism being what it is, when someone wants something, they will pay for it, if they have the money (and often when they don't!).  If l2trade is the one to get it, God Bless.  Its not a cost effective investment for me, and that's the variety and spice of life. 

Good Luck.


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## l2trade (May 11, 2011)

Thanks levatino!  

I got to be in it to win it.  I haven't decided yet whether to bid again because of what some have said about the current price.  The current price would have been considered a good price, even on a 1-52, not that many years ago.  It still feels cheap to me.  Oh, how much times and sentiment have changed, eh?  We've been spoiled and soured by the disaster that is the timeshare resale market.  But this here is a jewel in the rough, and one worth having to me now vs. waiting to find another one like it.  Funny thing is, I am getting much better value from II today then I did back then.  I have more than gotten my money's worth in the past 5 years!  

What will I do?  I don't know yet.


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## K2Quick (May 11, 2011)

levatino said:


> But....I don't see what Starwood has to gain from a business perspective from opening up SVN to resale owners.  It further weakens Developer sales by supporting the resale market.  The small cash infusion would be limited compared to developer sales.



There was a thread a while back explaining the reasons why they would eventually have to open it up.  Eventually every interval Starwood sells will transfer to another owner by either resale or death and after the transfer would not be eligible for SVN enrollment.  If none of those intervals are eligible for SVN, there would be nothing for new retail buyers to trade into via SVN (with the exception of the mandatory resorts).


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## levatino (May 11, 2011)

I would be interested in seeing that thread. Anyone know a keyword to find it. I tried.


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## l2trade (May 11, 2011)

The current exclusive approach of SVN has been short-sighted.  By setting the retro bar so high, Starwood voluntarily turned down what could be a much higher SVN membership and wider market share.  I think initiation fees + recurring annual dues would be more than just a "small cash infusion".  Starwood would gain wider control over inventory management with less inventory getting bulk banked straight into II.  I bet many at Starwood realized this long ago, but the Sales Department blocked the way.  I think it is just a matter of time.


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## nodge (May 11, 2011)

l2trade said:


> Now, of course, all of this rumor and speculation could be totally wrong and I could be wasting some extra one-time $$$.  That is the risk!



Rumors aside, I think from a purely math perspective SVO will eventually have to let resale buyers into SVN or the entire SVN system will die from lack of available inventory.  SVO can prop up SVN availability during peak seasons at peak resorts by controlling deposits into exchange companies for only so long before even that trick isn’t enough to fill the ever increasing inventory gap caused by the simple mathematical fact that all voluntary properties will eventually fall out of SVN.

Moreover, with fewer and fewer developer sales to be made as new properties sell-out and the pool of cheap defaults at sold-out properties dries up, the threat of lost developer sales associated with allowing resale buyers at voluntary resorts into SVN is minimized.  Add to that the fact that SVO can quickly and easily beef-up this diminishing developer sales revenue by selling SVN memberships to resale buyers (I bet not for just $599 though), and the math even works in SVO’s favor too.

So, the real question in my mind isn’t so much whether the rumor will happen, but when. 

-nodge


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## jerseygirl (May 11, 2011)

Ah ... but these same realities have been apparent for a long time and Starwood has never cared -- IMO, they only care about retail sales and inflated management fees.  I think they screwed up royally by making some of the more popular resorts voluntary (WPORV, WSJ-BV, WMH, etc) --- but I seriously doubt if they care about the lesser resorts falling out of the network.  Again, JMO!  That's not to say they might not do it just for the short-term pop in revenue -- but, that revenue is not sustainable if the resorts remain voluntary ... they'll just turn over again ... and again.  The population of owners ain't gettin' any younger!  

My prediction -- they'll do it ... but the price won't be $599!!  In fact, I suspect the "last chance offers" are intertwined in this mystery!

If they make drastic changes (ala' Marriott), I'll renew my prediction of a SERIOUS SO re-evaluation in addition to >$595 for resale owners to join.

The good news for me -- I don't care!  I have the mandatories I need/want and I'm reducing my portfolio of traders due to an inability to use them all.  But, it's fun to watch and speculate nonetheless!

Having said all this, I think if L2Trade has the play money to make this gamble -- then I say go for it!  If SDO Platinum is invited in at 148,100 for minimal $, it will have been a great coup.  And, if it's not, so what -- L2Trade still has a great external trader on his hands!


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## mstoyanov (May 11, 2011)

I fully agree with jerseygirl - If Starwood cared too much about inventory in SDO they would have offered option for resale buyer to join SVN for $599 but instead they went ahead and bought Villas of Cave Creek.
I don't think they care too much about availability in SBP, SDO, LT, SMV and other lower tier resorts. And WPORV and WMH are relatively new resorts so there is still plenty of availability in SVN. As for WSJ-BV - there StarOptions in any season other than Platinum are not enough to entice owners to exchange in SVN. In a long term yes - they may offer such enrollment but it probably be on a different terms and they may even adjust the SVN charts.
They will only start to care if SVN can bring more profitability now that selling timeshares are difficult but they either need to impose booking fees per transaction or raise SVN membership fees much above what is it currently for them to make some serious profits from SVN. Oh and they need to finally get online booking and reduce their call center costs if they are serious about making profit from SVN. 




jerseygirl said:


> Ah ... but these same realities have been apparent for a long time and Starwood has never cared -- IMO, they only care about retail sales and inflated management fees.  I think they screwed up royally by making some of the more popular resorts voluntary (WPORV, WSJ-BV, WMH, etc) --- but I seriously doubt if they care about the lesser resorts falling out of the network.  Again, JMO!  That's not to say they might not do it just for the short-term pop in revenue -- but, that revenue is not sustainable if the resorts remain voluntary ... they'll just turn over again ... and again.  The population of owners ain't gettin' any younger!
> 
> My prediction -- they'll do it ... but the price won't be $599!!  In fact, I suspect the "last chance offers" are intertwined in this mystery!
> 
> ...


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## K2Quick (May 11, 2011)

mstoyanov said:


> I don't think they care too much about availability in SBP, SDO, LT, SMV and other lower tier resorts. And WPORV and WMH are relatively new resorts so there is still plenty of availability in SVN.


I agree with that for the most part.  At least for resorts where there is a nearby, fancier option with higher demand.  I'm guessing that WKV will always be more in demand than SDO and will have a decent supply available.  LT and SMV have the new Riverfront villas pumping supply into the system.  What I think they'll do is just turn on the spigot to open up SVN to resale owners only when they are running short on supply.

SBP will probably get more of the offers in the future because there's nothing else close by and that SVN pool will need to be replenished once a critical mass of ownership changes hands.  Starwood has time on their side for the time being in Palm Springs, but they'll eventually need to address that - same goes for WLR.


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## l2trade (May 11, 2011)

Q: What does Starwood buying Villas of Cave Creek have to do with offering SVN membership to resale owners?  
A: Nothing

IMHO -
1. Starwood cares about their Sheraton brand name too.  They are not going to abandon it or intentionally devalue it.  Starwood is not out to destroy what they have built.  It is a valuable asset.  Companies may sell brands, they don't deliberately destroy them.  SDO is a beautiful property and is being well maintained, funded and improved.  Like any corporation, Starwood has made mistakes in the past and their interests are not always aligned with what I wanted.  However, that doesn't mean that Starwood is out to get all of us!  If I thought that, I would dump everything I own and take my business elsewhere.  Overall, I am a very happy timeshare owner.  In spite of changes I have strongly disagreed with, I continue to get really great value out of exchanging my existing ownerships with II.  SDO is a great trader.  I love it!

2. Combining EOY/annual 2BD SDO 'true platinum' weeks, there are 360 weeks per year that are valued at 148k SO.  As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, SDO gold plus at 81k is proportionally lower than average of three seasons.  There are ~15,000 total ownerships at SDO.  It is not necessary for Starwood to revalue SVN point chart for this resort on account of a relatively small number of peak demand weeks.  And, by the way, many owners of those 148k SO weeks paid big money to buy new based on the points charts and/or did the same to retro.  I don't think Starwood wants to upset those owners.  Doing so would be a HUGE mistake, especially since some of them happen to be 5* Elite!

3. SDO trades great on II.  Why?  II isn't narrowly focused on comparing WKV vs. SDO, best vs. nothing.  II is looking at the big picture.  Everything Starwood is better than most timeshares out there.  SDO is a great resort, an II Premier Resort, with member ratings from almost 300 people averaging to  5, 4.5 & 4.5 on a 5 point scale in the past 12 months.  That is not shabby for a cheap resort, eh?  Oh, and by the way, SDO just replaced all the unit appliances and will do unit refreshes out of the well funded reserves.


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## DanCali (May 11, 2011)

Gee - I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor Starwood will allow SDO to join SVN?  

If there weren't hundreds of potential sellers and PCCs who have an incentive to spread that rumor to get a higher price for weeks they bought for $200 (or got paid to take in the case of PCCs), I may buy into that concept. 

But hey, $4000+ for something that sold three weeks ago for $1500 means it's working. The truth may be a whole other matter though.


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## ada903 (May 12, 2011)

Most PCC's have no clue of the difference between float 1-52 and true plat.



DanCali said:


> Gee - I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor Starwood will allow SDO to join SVN?
> 
> If there weren't hundreds of potential sellers and PCCs who have an incentive to spread that rumor to get a higher price for weeks they bought for $200 (or got paid to take in the case of PCCs), I may buy into that concept.
> 
> But hey, $4000+ for something that sold three weeks ago for $1500 means it's working. The truth may be a whole other matter though.


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## DanCali (May 12, 2011)

ada903 said:


> Most PCC's have no clue of the difference between float 1-52 and true plat.



You're focusing on the wrong point. PCCs may not know the difference but you, me, and many others do... 

Buy low (from pcc), spread rumor,sell high? It's called "pump and dump"...


I don't own any SDO so I have no incentives. I am also not making any accusations against any fellow tuggers (who may have heard it from someone who has a hidden motive) who posted these rumors.

Maybe it's a rumor and maybe there is some truth to it. I am just trying to make a point that this is the type of rumor that should be taken with a  huge grain of salt because many people can gain from such a rumor being perpetuated. And if you get into a bidding war, or load up on timeshares and your MF obligations based on these types of rumors, you do so at your own peril.


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## l2trade (May 12, 2011)

DanCali said:


> You're focusing on the wrong point. PCCs may not know the difference but you, me, and many others do...
> 
> Buy low (from pcc), spread rumor,sell high? It's called "pump and dump"...
> 
> ...



I am not a PCC.  I have NEVER sold a Starwood timeshare.  I have NEVER bought a Starwood timeshare for less than $1,000.  If and when I buy a 'true platinum', I will probably try to sell my first timeshare to make up for the new one I purchase.  I won't make a profit if I sell it, not even close!   

Nodge started the rumor thread.  Financially, I thank Nodge for teaching me about XYZ (now let's stop talking about that please).  Humor wise, I thank Nodge for countless laughs!  Because of Nodge and his ability to bring us together, I have a huge repertoire of lawyer jokes!  So, while I don't know Nodge from anything but what we read here, I trust him.  Nodge is NOT A PCC.  Nodge simply reported what he heard from a Starwood phone agent.  I highly doubt Starwood phone agents are PCC and out to pump & dump.  Starwood records phone calls for quality purposes.  The simple explanation is the agent was being helpful and honest.  I am more likely to believe that, than some type of conspiratorial scam where a PCC infiltrates Nodge or a Starwood phone agent.  

And with that said, I am not intending to perpetuate the rumor as truth. I am just saying that the posting about the "phone conversation about said rumor" is most likely true.  As for the rumor itself, we will need to wait and see.

I agree with you, DanCali, that we should take all rumors with 'a huge grain of salt'.  However, we should also consider the source, which in this case is not directly a PCC as you imply it might be.  In this case, I think the source Nodge/phone agent is much more believable, and, while it should be taken with 'a huge grain of salt', it merits further investigating to see if we can find any more leaks or facts about it.


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## l2trade (May 12, 2011)

~20 minutes left.  I've not re-bid yet.  I am watching this with my finger on the button to submit my snipe bid.  Given all the PMs and posts I've read, I will probably NOT click it.  L2Trade is a LOSER on this auction!  :-(

I sure hope this auction winner is a non-payer and it gets re-listed, so I can have a 2nd chance!!!


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## nodge (May 12, 2011)

l2trade said:


> Nodge started the rumor thread.



Yep.  I just report what I heard.  No deep seeded goal to prop up SDO prices, and certainly no guarantee or promise that what I reported will ever actually happen.

Now if we're talking about me attempting to prop-up the resale price of jewelry purchased at a homemade jewelry "party."  Guilty as charged.

-nodge


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## l2trade (May 12, 2011)

Thanks Nodge!  You made me laugh again.


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## l2trade (May 12, 2011)

With a few minutes left, I just learned the seller is also a TUG member.  I am interested to see if he stays quiet after this closes.  < 2 minutes.  I haven't clicked my snipe bid yet.  I probably won't.  This is so, so hard.  I hope we seen another 'true platinum' soon!!!


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## l2trade (May 12, 2011)

It just closed at $3,906, with the 2nd highest bid at $3,900...  neither of those bids are me!  L2Trade is a big loser, who ended up watching this finish from the dugout!  Because these two bids are really close together, I assume this means the maximum snipe bid was the same as the close price.  Had I tried to snipe at $4,460, it looks like I would have won this for $3,956.  I hope I didn't make a HUGE mistake!  I hope there is time to pick another one of these up cheap and soon.

timesharepro - Care to weigh in on this one???


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## DavidnRobin (May 12, 2011)

Why do you say 'big loser' - it sounds to me that you 'won' by not paying $3900 for this VOI... 

there is a concept (Mike Caro - among many) that money you do not put into a pot that has no value (-EV) is money saved...
see DUCY (David Skalansky)

IMO NAE
(btw - only here on SDO threads so what all the commotion was about...)


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## l2trade (May 12, 2011)

DavidnRobin said:


> Why do you say 'big loser' - it sounds to me that you 'won' by not paying $3900 for this VOI...
> 
> there is a concept (Mike Caro - among many) that money you do not put into a pot that has no value (-EV) is money saved...
> see DUCY (David Skalansky)
> ...



The pot has value to me, not as an investment, but for personal consumption.  I'll try again next time.

L2Trade is a 'big loser' because I didn't win the auction.  It's Ok to have fun here and poke fun at ourselves, right?  As long as I say it about myself and not another poster that is within the rule, correct?  Perhaps I'm just not using enough smilies???  
:hysterical: :rofl:


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## DavidnRobin (May 12, 2011)

l2trade said:


> The pot has value to me, not as an investment, but for personal consumption.  I'll try again next time.
> 
> L2Trade is a 'big loser' because I didn't win the auction.  It's Ok to have fun here and poke fun at ourselves, right?  As long as I say it about myself and not another poster that is within the rule, correct?  Perhaps I'm just not using enough smilies???



I agree you can poke fun at yourself - and not even with all the smilies. I just think that not winning a SVO VOI auction because you did not overbid is considered 'losing' (as is true with most things)
#winning...


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## levatino (May 12, 2011)

:deadhorse: 

damn, I am glad this is over.  This topic was beat like cheap, dead horse.


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## JanT (May 12, 2011)

Amen brother!!!!



levatino said:


> :deadhorse:
> 
> damn, I am glad this is over.  This topic was beat like cheap, dead horse.


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## l2trade (May 12, 2011)

JanT said:


> Amen brother!!!!



I don't know what you two are talking about?  

No matter, this will be my last TUG post for weeks.  

If anyone finds an annual 2BD 'true platinum' SDO listing and cares enough to let me know, please send me a PM to alert me.  Next time around, I am going to try a different strategy to win it.  I'm stepping away for now.  Will only check listings.  bye, bye now...


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## VacationForever (Jul 11, 2011)

I just closed on a SDO 2 BR L/O annual platinum week, waiting for completion... (I am pretty sure it's platinum - 3097/3098 Wk 21) opening up the possibility to requalify within next couple of years to get to 4*.  No plans to go 5*.  Hopefully Starwood does not change the rules during this period.  Any suggestions on the cheapest path is appreciated.  

This is what I have:
SVR with 90K options in SVN.  
SDO 2BR 1-52 with 81K if requalified.
SDO 2BR Platinum with 148K if requalified.

If I buy a straight forward 2BR platinum week at WDW to requalify SDO platinum, it will get me to 386K.

Suggestions for cheaper alternatives?  

Thanks,
SP


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## ada903 (Jul 11, 2011)

So you made an offer to Doug Ochoa on eBay and he took it and ended the listing!  Just curious, how much did he settle for?



sptung said:


> I just closed on a SDO 2 BR L/O annual platinum week, waiting for completion... (I am pretty sure it's platinum - 3097/3098 Wk 21) opening up the possibility to requalify within next couple of years to get to 4*.  No plans to go 5*.  Hopefully Starwood does not change the rules during this period.  Any suggestions on the cheapest path is appreciated.
> 
> This is what I have:
> SVR with 90K options in SVN.
> ...


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## VacationForever (Jul 11, 2011)

I admit to nothing...


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## ada903 (Jul 11, 2011)

not a bad strategy... Used it myself 

I was watching that one!


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 11, 2011)

sptung said:


> I just closed on a SDO 2 BR L/O annual platinum week, waiting for completion... (I am pretty sure it's platinum - 3097/3098 Wk 21) opening up the possibility to requalify within next couple of years to get to 4*.  No plans to go 5*.  Hopefully Starwood does not change the rules during this period.  Any suggestions on the cheapest path is appreciated.
> 
> This is what I have:
> SVR with 90K options in SVN.
> ...



Not sure what value 4* (for the cost...) has if you have no plans to go to 5*.  I am sure this has been discussed (perhaps not?), but I do not understand the goal of getting to 4*.  I can see picking up the SVO VOIs in order to get value out of them - but requaling to get to 4* just doesn't seem worth it if the final goal is not 5* where real benefits do come into play.


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## VacationForever (Jul 11, 2011)

David, I like the option of converting to starpoints.  I know Denise and several folks have said it's not worth it.  After we are retired, which is going to be no later than 4 years' time, we intend to travel alot.  We both used to travel and live internationally when we were working for corporate America.  We are currently bogged down to not travelling too far away as we were silly enough to run our own company.  Can't wait to get out there again.  Starpoints give us the flexibility.  The only expensive part about going to 4* is the one time buy of a new developer unit.


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## jarta (Jul 11, 2011)

IMO, not sure what 4* (even without the cost) has if you have no plans to go to 5*.  Annual conversion to Starpoints is not enough for me; flexibility in making multi-week reservations at mainland places I can drive to when I retire (4-5 years) probably is, though.

But, if you are happy with your purchase, I see no reason to rain on your parade.  Enjoy your new timeshare!   ...   eom


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## DavidnRobin (Jul 11, 2011)

I understand your reasoning to some extent - just do not know if it is worth an additional spend of >$20K (plus increasing annual fees) - versus using that >$20K and increasing fees for vacationing (and getting SPs using an AMEX SPG card - for instance).  Seems to me to be 5* (and PFL) does have retirement benefits that could make it a worthwhile goal (I thought of it once - but retirement was too far away - and the cost of getting to 5*/PFL just about doubled).  Without a 5* (PFL) goal is just tough to justify 4* even using the fuzziest math.  oh yeah... IMO... 

David (the Rainmaker..) nRobin... lol


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## VacationForever (Jul 11, 2011)

sptung said:


> This is what I have:
> SVR with 90K options in SVN.
> SDO 2BR 1-52 with 81K if requalified.
> SDO 2BR Platinum with 148K if requalified.
> ...



I am still looking for inputs.


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## jarta (Jul 11, 2011)

sptung,   ...   You do not have to buy a Platinum WDW 2-br annual to requalify your SDO 148,100 StarOption SDO.

I would investigate buying a Platinum WKV 2-br EOY to requalify your 148,100 SDO unit.  Such a WKV bought from Starwood from their pool of foreclosures should cost a little over $20K and, therefore, could be used to requalify the SDO unit.  The WKV repurchase from the developer would hold its value better than a developer purchase at Lagunamar or WDW or WMH because WKV is mandatory.

Then, I would buy another  non-developer 148,100 SDO (or a 148,100 SMV in Avon) and buy another developer Platinum WKV 2-br EOY (to even out the per year Staroptions) to use as a basis for requalifying the SDO or SMV.

The SMV may cost more initially.  But, it also has low MF and has a better conversion factor of Starpoints per StarOption.  The problem is finding a 148,100 SMV that is for sale.

With these transactions that would cost you a little over $43k in purchases from Starwood (my estimate), you would put 444,300 (148,100 X 3) StarOptions that count toward Elite status into your SVN account.  That would give you 534,300 Staroptions in all in your SVN account and get you to 4* Elite - and well on your way to 5* Elite.

I would also look into upgrading your 81,000 annual SDO into a 148,100 SDO by repurchasing something from the SVO inventory that Starwood has available.  That would get you to 682,400 StarOptions in all in your SVN account.  It would also get you to 5* Elite (and SPG PLatinum) since 649,000 is the minimum 5* Elite Staroption number. 

Please do not stop at 4* Elite.  5* Elite is worth it.  Also, if you need more help at Starwood, PM me and I can give you my Starwood contacts at WKV who are very helpful and very knowledgeable.  And, they have access to WKV and SDO resale inventory now owned by Starwood.

GLTY!   ...   eom


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## VacationForever (Jul 11, 2011)

Jarta, Thank you.  If I were to go with your suggested route, does this alternative work? Buy WKV EY 2BR platinum to requalify for 1 SDO platinum.  Upgrade the 81K SDO thru developer and at the same time use that to requalify for 2nd SDO/SMV platinum?  Does Starwood still allow using an upgrade to requalify a different unit?  

PS.  I will PM you regarding your contacts.


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## jarta (Jul 11, 2011)

sptung,   ...   Just in the last 4 months, I upgraded a EOY Platinum Lagunamar to a EY Platinum OS (Ocean Side) Lagunamar for $23k and included a retro of a Platinum WMH 148,100 week I purchased on the resale market.  (Got it for $3k and Starwood failed to timely exercise its ROFR, so I kept it.  lol!)

The change from Lagunamar to Lagunamar OS was considered a sufficient "upgrade" by Starwood to support a retro.  I don't know if Starwood would consider any old 81,000 SDO to be turned in for a similar 148,100 SDO week (by merely changing the season, not the size of the unit) to be an "upgrade" that would support a retro.  I guess you find out by asking.

You are in a good spot.  Most TUG members only consider buying at SDO for II trading purposes.  However, a 148,100 SDO can be used for trading or for retroing into the SVN.  StarOption conversion to Starpoints has its benefits.  Happy vacationing post-retirement.

BTW, what I suggested earlier is something I know would get you there.   ...   eom


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## VacationForever (Jul 11, 2011)

Jarta, Thanks.  Now the tough part is finding a second inexpensive platinum SDO or something with low maintenance cost.  I haven't even seen a SMV platinum ever since I started shopping for additional resale units a few weeks ago.  Otherwise, it does look like one can get to 5* Elite in possibly less than 60K from new purchase / upgrade from developer.  I don't count my old SVR developer purchase as it's pretty much sunk cost and it's paid for itself through my years of exchange.


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## RLG (Jul 12, 2011)

sptung said:


> I haven't even seen a SMV platinum ever since I started shopping for additional resale units a few weeks ago.



I'm curious where you looked?  There is at least one listed in many of the usual venues.  I don't know if I can say more without running afoul of the "no advertising rules".

I'm sending you a PM.


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