# Question for by Hilton Club (bHC) Owners



## GT75 (Oct 7, 2018)

It looks like HGV will be adding many resorts to the bHC.   I am sure that they see this as very lucrative model for them.    We have had several posts concerning issues with points utilization between HGVC and bHC buckets.

Splitting NYC points = pain in the a## - link here

Forced to Use W57 Points for Flamingo Reservation - link here

When I read the rules concerning use of bHC (posts 2 & 3 linked here), it looks like you will only have 45-60 day advantage booking window at those bHC resorts which you don't own.   So the question that I have for you is, *how do you think that HGV is going to determine which point bucket is utilized for your reservations*?


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## janckenn (Oct 7, 2018)

If you book at 45-60 days, then you can use by Hilton Club points from locations in which you are not an owner, but no access to owner lounge.

If you book at less than 45 days, then you can use HGVC points.

That's why there are now 2 buckets.


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## brp (Oct 7, 2018)

janckenn said:


> That's why there are now 2 buckets.



Well, that and to prevent the use of HGVC points for bHC reservations at home resort during the Home advantage, unfortunately 

Cheers.


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## escanoe (Oct 7, 2018)

GT75 said:


> So the question that I have for you is, *how do you think that HGV is going to determine which point bucket is utilized for your reservations*?



Newbie here that only has resale Vegas points. However, it seems to me if in the future one owns two bHC properties and uses points from one of those to get 45 to 60 day advantage at another there would have to be a way to pick which bucket of bHC points you are using.

*But will it be universal that you can used bHC points to get a 45 to 60 day preference at another bHC property?* It seems to work that way now between The District bHC and the Residences bHC. Howerver, having W57 bHC points currently does not help you get a 45 to 60 day advantage at any other bHC property.

The current handbook (image below) does not say that a 45 to 60 day priority exchange applies universally to bHC point holder. It just lists the two it applies to. As long as they limit it to those two, keeping the buckets straight should be easy for them.

Again, I'm new. Others may know how this will unfold far better than me.


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## brp (Oct 8, 2018)

...


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 8, 2018)

Unlike other bHC, W57 Owners have more time (until 44 days) to have exclusive access to reservations. 

HCNY owners have exclusive access to HCNY until date of stay.


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## Jason245 (Oct 8, 2018)

am i the only one who thinks these short priority reservation windows are a little crazy especially for the buy in price? 

I hate this two system game they are playing. 



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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 8, 2018)

Jason245 said:


> am i the only one who thinks these short priority reservation windows are a little crazy especially for the buy in price?
> 
> I hate this two system game they are playing.
> 
> ...



Agree. bHC is not a club, it is preferential reservation access to a particular property and location. IMHO...I would not buy bHC for the "club"; a 45 to 60 day window with no reciprocal lounge access is not very attractive given the hefty buy-in price.

However if you want regular access to a particular destination such as NYC or DC and ability to access a penthouse or larger unit with a small bHC ownership, short stay windows, and lounge. It has significant benefits.


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## Nomad420 (Oct 8, 2018)

Still somewhat confused, so I own at HCNY which always seems to be an outlier.  Can I use those points at bHC properties and get the same 45 to 60 day advantage as bHC owners?  I suspect not but thought I would ask.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 8, 2018)

Nomad420 said:


> Still somewhat confused, so I own at HCNY which always seems to be an outlier.  Can I use those points at bHC properties and get the same 45 to 60 day advantage as bHC owners?  I suspect not but thought I would ask.



Since most of us are not HCNY owners, it would be best to go into your account and try to make a reservation at Residences or District 50 days out to see if it works.


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## Nomad420 (Oct 8, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Since most of us are not HCNY owners, it would be best to go into your account and try to make a reservation at Residences or District 50 days out to see if it works.


Thanks, just ran it and NO I only get a within 45 day window.


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## ccwu (Oct 8, 2018)

As far as I know, if you at HRC (Hilton Residence Club) owner and you book 60 day window to other HRC. You can use the HRC owner’s lounge. We own both NYC HRC and NYC HC and We were told we could use any HRC lounge if we booked in. So far the only other HRC is in Washington DC. We prefer to stay in DC downtown Hilton hotels so far. We are waiting for Chicago’s HRC. For HC the 57th Street is different than HRC. It is mutually exclusive. That HRC can not access 57th street, neither 57th street access to HRC owner’s lounge. NYC midtown HC is owners only. You could book thru RCI to it. (I converted my HC points to HHonor points so Hilton Hotel can rent my shares out. But renter can not access owner’s lounge). I also booked thru RCI to nyc HC. Assuming that since we are owner, all the receptionist know us, we will get access to owner’s lounge (RCI exchange is as owner’s guests anyway and should be able to use it as my guests can use the owner’s lounge).


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## escanoe (Oct 9, 2018)

Jason245 said:


> am i the only one who thinks these short priority reservation windows are a little crazy especially for the buy in price?



I recently entered the resale timeshare market. I picked HGVC because of how flexible it is on points. From the point of view of HGVC/developers I can see how they could see how they could be concerned owners have too much flexibility (as in having a lot of flexibility on how to spend relatively cheap Vegas points) that makes it harder for them to develop newer properties with higher maintenance fees. I see the emergence of bHC as a way to scale back some of that flexibility for new properties.

My strong first preference would be for new properties to be HGVC. That said, I am not convinced bHC is a terrible thing. I am fine planning some vacations and long weekend getaways in a 44 to 60 day window. If I did not already live in DC, the District would be attractive to me and generally has decent availability with the 44 day window. My gripe with W 57th bHC is it hardly has any weekend availability within a 44 day period. I am hoping that launch of the Quin will improve availability in NYC.

I see the bHC properties being a pretty good short-term deal for developers. I hope it brings great new properties into the HGVC system. If they adopt a policy of broadly allowing bHC owners to make priority reservations within a 60 day window at other bHC properties, I will strongly consider buying in once there is a more affordable resale market for such properties.


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## Smclaugh99 (Oct 9, 2018)

Nomad420 said:


> Thanks, just ran it and NO I only get a within 45 day window.



That is correct. HCNY owners don’t get bHC preferential windows. However no non-HCNY owners (even bHC owners) can get into HCNY.  It is truly a ‘club within a club’ with much less competition for booking. 

Sean


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## dayooper (Oct 9, 2018)

Jason245 said:


> am i the only one who thinks these short priority reservation windows are a little crazy especially for the buy in price?
> 
> I hate this two system game they are playing.
> 
> ...


Eh, as long as they keep building regular HGVC resorts (and they seem to be doing that), it's fine. To me, the bHC properties are just very nice timeshare like hotels in short stay locations. There needs to be two separate divisions between the two as they are used in different ways. The rub is that bHC owners can book at 9 months and we regular HGVC owners can book at 44 days. But with the hotel like stays, it almost has to be that way. Very rarely do people book a couple of nights stay at a hotel 9 months in advance.

It used to bother me too. Once I looked at what bHC really is, I understood why it's like that. As long as they keep the differences between the two and don't start putting family or resort style properties in bHC, than the two system game doesn't bother me.


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## brp (Oct 9, 2018)

dayooper said:


> Very rarely do people book a couple of nights stay at a hotel 9 months in advance.



Actually, we do- which is precisely why we own W. 57th. I mean, not 9 months to the day (as often has to be done at 11 months with DVC), but certainly in the 6+ month timeframe. We have certain times of year that we like to go to New York, and we can (and do) plan those well in advance to get our owners' advantage.

I don't have the data, but I'll bet we're not all that different from other bHC owners.

Cheers.


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## SmithOp (Oct 9, 2018)

brp said:


> Actually, we do- which is precisely why we own W. 57th. I mean, not 9 months to the day (as often has to be done at 11 months with DVC), but certainly in the 6+ month timeframe. We have certain times of year that we like to go to New York, and we can (and do) plan those well in advance to get our owners' advantage.
> 
> I don't have the data, but I'll bet we're not all that different from other bHC owners.
> 
> Cheers.



I’ve come to realize that TUGers are a very small percentage of timeshare owners.  There may be a few of you bHC owners booking early, I’ll bet there are a few that convert to HHonors too because they like the 50:1 conversion.  Its a big selling point judging from the bHC owners in the Facebook group, they love owning HGVC and using HHonors, go figure...

I’ve only been to NYC once, booked well in advance at W57th using the RCI portal.  Being west coast based I have very little interest in bHC, my preference is Hawaii resorts and HGVC excels there ( other than Maui  )


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## brp (Oct 9, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> I’ve come to realize that TUGers are a very small percentage of timeshare owners.  There may be a few of you bHC owners booking early, I’ll bet there are a few that convert to HHonors too because they like the 50:1 conversion.  Its a big selling point judging from the bHC owners in the Facebook group, they love owning HGVC and using HHonors, go figure...



I hope that there are less o these than you think, but I fear that you are likely correct. Although, I'd guess that there are enough that really have the points for staying in NYC, and they may book early.



SmithOp said:


> I’ve only been to NYC once, booked well in advance at W57th using the RCI portal.  Being west coast based I have very little interest in bHC, my preference is Hawaii resorts and HGVC excels there ( other than Maui  )



We're west coast based as well, but go to New York 2-3 times a year (I was born and raised there), so the W. 57th ownership is valuable. I do like the HGVC presence in Hawai'i (just booked a stay at Bay Club for next year using our Vegas points ) but, AFAIC, they only cover 1 of 3 islands (Oahu is of very little interest to us). The other Hawaii trip we booked for next year was Kauai, which is pricier than I expected for nice places.

Cheers.


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## Nomad420 (Oct 9, 2018)

SmithOp said:


> I’ve come to realize that TUGers are a very small percentage of timeshare owners.  There may be a few of you bHC owners booking early, I’ll bet there are a few that convert to HHonors too because they like the 50:1 conversion.  Its a big selling point judging from the bHC owners in the Facebook group, they love owning HGVC and using HHonors, go figure...
> 
> I’ve only been to NYC once, booked well in advance at W57th using the RCI portal.  Being west coast based I have very little interest in bHC, my preference is Hawaii resorts and HGVC excels there ( other than Maui  )
> 
> ...



West coast based and bought into NYHC initially because my wife worked in NYC regularly and we knew we would use it.  We liked the ease of booking  close in at NYHC vs. 57th St. (but prefer the 57th st in almost all other areas).  Plan to buy (retail) more HGVC points (anywhere cheap) in 2019/2020 to get use basically more time iat the NYC locations and probably some of the up and coming bHC locations.  As we have had a home for years in Hawaii (Kona) none of the Hawaii locations appeals to us.  We will probably morph into more of a NYC / bHC locations users.  

Oh, yeah, even at 50 to 1 on my conversion to HHonors I feel it is a ripoff.  The HHonors program has really devalued points over the last 3 years  IMHO.


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 9, 2018)

Do bHC owners get lounge access at the various bHC locations, or is the lounge access limited to the location you actually own?  I know that W57 is owners only, but what about the District and Residences?

Chris


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## PigsDad (Oct 9, 2018)

Nomad420 said:


> Oh, yeah, even at 50 to 1 on my conversion to HHonors I feel it is a ripoff.  The HHonors program has really devalued points over the last 3 years  IMHO.


It hasn't been just the last three years; the devaluation has been going on at about the same rate for as long as I have been an owner, which is 13 years.  At one point, HGVC increased their Honors exchange rate from 20:1 to the current 25:1, but that was at least 10 years ago, so I assume they have no intention to keep up with the Honors point devaluation from now on.  I guess they just want to sell you a bHC property that will get the 50:1 rate, but honestly with the constant devaluation, that 50:1 conversion today has probably less value than the 25:1 ten years ago (when the highest-value room was only 40K points / night).  Now I see just basic rooms at 70K.

For example, in 2009 we stayed at the Hilton Molino Stucky in Venice, Italy for 5 nights and it was 110K points with the Amex code.  Now, even with the get 1 night free when staying 5 nights, the same room would be 280K points!

Kurt


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## GT75 (Oct 9, 2018)

Nomad420 said:


> Oh, yeah, even at 50 to 1 on my conversion to HHonors I feel it is a ripoff.  The HHonors program has really devalued points over the last 3 years  IMHO.



I agree with you.    I know that there was a recent post how you might be able to break even at some properties, but I don't see this as the normal case here in the US.   Anyway, I was riding the elevator today at Ocean Oak with some salespeople.     I had a couple of questions for them during my ride.    Of course, they also tried to "sell me" during the ride.     Their statement was "Have you heard about the new Charleston property".   I answer yes I have but that will be bHC.    Their response was, "but it will have a 50 to 1 HH conversion ratio".    I didn't respond.    I guess they figure most Americans can not figure simple math (plus give them a million points of something and that must be a lot).

But, I did get the information which I was looking for during the elevator ride.     I wanted to ensure that I understood how the new 60 units at Ocean Oaks for Phase II were going to be designated. (10 - 2-bd plus units {these are the 6 floor units} and the rest will be regular 2-Bd units).


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## JohnPaul (Oct 9, 2018)

1Kflyerguy said:


> Do bHC owners get lounge access at the various bHC locations, or is the lounge access limited to the location you actually own?  I know that W57 is owners only, but what about the District and Residences?
> 
> Chris



Owners of that property only.  We stayed at The Residences and were told it is The Residences owners only.  Reciprocal access would make more sense and be a reason for people to do By Hilton Club.


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## tombanjo (Oct 9, 2018)

If an owner at W57th books with "regular" points after their W57th points are used for the year, do they still have access to the lounge as an owner ?


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 9, 2018)

tombanjo said:


> If an owner at W57th books with "regular" points after their W57th points are used for the year, do they still have access to the lounge as an owner ?



Yes, as an owner you would have access. Note, however that you can only use non W57 club points during the 44 day window.

You also can borrow W57 points from a future year. The trigger is "owner" not points.  If you traded in via RCI, it might work but have never tried.


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## Cyberc (Oct 9, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Yes, as an owner you would have access. Note, however that you can only use non W57 club points during the 44 day window.
> 
> You also can borrow W57 points from a future year. The trigger is "owner" not points.  If you traded in via RCI, it might work but have never tried.



I would say no. Unless you can document or otherwise provide evidence that you are an owner. Easiest for the hotel would be to say “no”

I’m here at west 57th now so I could ask but I don’t think the regular staff would know. I would therefore be kind a hesitant of any answer.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 9, 2018)

If needed you could login to your HGVC account from your mobile and show your ownership to the desk


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## Cyberc (Oct 13, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Yes, as an owner you would have access. Note, however that you can only use non W57 club points during the 44 day window.
> 
> You also can borrow W57 points from a future year. The trigger is "owner" not points.  If you traded in via RCI, it might work but have never tried.



Btw I talked to the front desk manager at west57 and he said “no” access to the lounge when exchanging through RCI.  But as he said as an owner they would make an exception I should just inform him on beforehand. 

So no rules without exceptions


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## 1Kflyerguy (Oct 13, 2018)

JohnPaul said:


> Owners of that property only.  We stayed at The Residences and were told it is The Residences owners only.  Reciprocal access would make more sense and be a reason for people to do By Hilton Club.



I kind of like the bHC concept, but it seems like you really have to like the location you purchase.  I like the new location in Waikiki, but don't think i would stay enough to make that pay off.   I know many Tuggers like W57, but it felt to sterile to me.  Maybe it would have more energy if I was able to use the lounge.  I may try the Residences if i get an opportunity, to see how i like that.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 13, 2018)

1Kflyerguy said:


> I kind of like the bHC concept, but it seems like you really have to like the location you purchase.  I like the new location in Waikiki, but don't think i would stay enough to make that pay off.   I know many Tuggers like W57, but it felt to sterile to me.  Maybe it would have more energy if I was able to use the lounge.  I may try the Residences if i get an opportunity, to see how i like that.



I could see where W57 could feel quiet and limiting without the lounge. Small quiet lobby and only about 8 rooms per floor makes it very quiet and with little shared space beyond the room.


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## brp (Oct 17, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I could see where W57 could feel quiet and limiting without the lounge. Small quiet lobby and only about 8 rooms per floor makes it very quiet and with little shared space beyond the room.



Yeah, the lounge really does add a lot to the experience. (By the way, I thought that there were 4 rooms per floor, -10 - -04? Maybe that's the floors with the premier units only?)

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 17, 2018)

@brp  Yes, I was guessing based on lower floors. The Premier floors most likely have fewer rooms. The lounge definitely provides more space. We like to go to the lounge for a quiet place to read/work etc. during non meal hours. My DH will have to work one day on this trip and the lounge provides a second place to go - especially nice with a studio.

BTW...are the premier studio balconies on the city side or central park side of the building? I have put in a request. Hopefully will get assigned to one since we are on a weekday during non-peak and will take some photos from the balcony to share.  We usually stay in the one bedrooms on the city side so this will provide a new perspective.

You can see the balconies from the rooftop bar atop the Viceroy a few doors down, however those balconies might belong to the penthouse units.


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## brp (Oct 17, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> @brp
> 
> BTW...are the premier studio balconies on the city side or central park side of the building? I have put in a request. Hopefully will get assigned to one since we are on a weekday during non-peak and will take some photos from the balcony to share.  We usually stay in the one bedrooms on the city side so this will provide a new perspective.
> 
> You can see the balconies from the rooftop bar atop the Viceroy a few doors down, however those balconies might belong to the penthouse units.



Balconies are park-facing. And they even have a view of the park peeking in between the freakishly tall buildings on the north side of W. 57th.

We keep meaning to go to the top of the Viceroy, but have yet to make it.

Cheers,


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 17, 2018)

brp said:


> Balconies are park-facing. And they even have a view of the park peeking in between the freakishly tall buildings on the north side of W. 57th.
> 
> We keep meaning to go to the top of the Viceroy, but have yet to make it.
> 
> Cheers,



Wondering if the new building construction across W57 will block some of those views in the future?

re: Viceroy. It's just a bar, however it is nice to go there on a warm summer evening and look around. It has a fantastic view of the park and surroundings. That's the nice thing about NYC. Always a reason to go back.


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## brp (Oct 17, 2018)

CalGalTraveler said:


> Wondering if the new building construction across W57 will block some of those views in the future?



From what I can see, I don't believe so. The really tall things are already really tall- they're just adding more on the top. I don't see evidence that they're planning to build the gaps taller.



CalGalTraveler said:


> re: Viceroy. It's just a bar, however it is nice to go there on a warm summer evening and look around. It has a fantastic view of the park and surroundings. That's the nice thing about NYC. Always a reason to go back.



We're back in April and likely September next year (in addition to the obligatory OHNY in October). One of those should be perfect. As for "always a reason to go back.." Roger that!

Cheers.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 17, 2018)

We'll be back next April as well (hopefully on a $150 package) 

Perhaps we can say hello.


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## magmue (Feb 27, 2019)

Bumping this thread to clarify my understanding about who has (and doesn’t have) access to the owner’s lounge at W 57th. 

If I understand correctly, owners at W 57th have access when they are staying there regardless of how they got there, with possible exception of an exchange in via RCI.
Folks staying there via guest certificate from a W 57th owner have access.
Everyone else, including owners at other By Hilton Club properties, and HGVC owners, no access to the lounge.

Do I have this right?


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 27, 2019)

@magmue Yes, that is correct.

The only way a non-owner can gain access to the lounge is as a guest of an owner, or by renting from an owner and obtaining a guest certificate. (not from Hilton.com, HGVC Club or RCI)

IMO I wish they would allow reciprocal lounge privileges between the bHC owners because I would like to try the other properties, except we get lounge at W57 which  makes the visit more social and enjoyable by giving you a space outside of the  the room plus saves money on food.

I have heard of HGVCers staying at the midtown property and gaining access to the hotel lounge (not HCNY or Residences) with Diamond Elite level.


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## brp (Feb 27, 2019)

magmue said:


> If I understand correctly, owners at W 57th have access when they are staying there regardless of how they got there, with possible exception of an exchange in via RCI.



Mostly, and probably. According to the technical rules, and owner who is staying there on one of the package deals where we pay a good rate and don't use points doesn't have access. What I have heard is that we are given access in this case, but technically there is no access.

Cheers.


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## brp (Feb 27, 2019)

CalGalTraveler said:


> I have heard of HGVCers staying at the midtown property and gaining access to the hotel lounge (not HCNY or Residences) with Diamond Elite level.




Some time ago, when we owned HCNY, we stayed on our points and had access to both the HCNY Lounge and the Executive Lounge. But some time back they stopped allowing access for anyone staying on HGVC points. They were pretty adamant about it, although some may slip through.

We did stay at midtown on a HGVC package (same as above), so not saying on points. In this case, we were explicitly granted access to the Executive Lounge.

Cheers.


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## JohnPaul (Feb 27, 2019)

FWIW we just did a presentation in Park City where they tried to get us to trade a W57th week (one of two) for a week in Hawaii.

The purchase would make us Elite and the salesperson claimed that Elite gets you access to all lounges.  Anyone have experience with this to confirm or deny?


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## CalGalTraveler (Feb 27, 2019)

@JohnPaul Your gut is correct. Lips were moving. I've never seen a policy that supports this.

FWIW there is a "lounge" at Kingsland but it is open to everyone, has no food, and was taken over as the sales office. I am sure they would welcome an elite.


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## GT75 (Feb 28, 2019)

JohnPaul said:


> The purchase would make us Elite and the salesperson claimed that Elite gets you access to all lounges. Anyone have experience with this to confirm or deny?



I am sure that we all know that the salesperson isn't the best source of information.  I am sure that is the reason that you are fact checking his/her statement.     I figure that most, probably all, HGVC Tug members know more about the HGVC and bHC workings than a salesperson.


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## PigsDad (Feb 28, 2019)

JohnPaul said:


> The purchase would make us Elite and the salesperson claimed that Elite gets you access to all lounges.  Anyone have experience with this to confirm or deny?


Next time you are in a situation like that, ask them to show you in the contract where it states the particular benefit that they are spouting.  Then watch them squirm.

Kurt


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