# Vegas-If you think it’s “safe”, you’re probably wrong



## dougp26364 (Oct 11, 2020)

We thought with all the emphasis on safety, it wouldn’t be to bad. I was wrong. Guests have a complete disregard for social distancing and masks..... hahahahaha. There are so many people either not wearing them at all or having them pulled down below their nose or tucked under their chin. 
Even though we’re taking all precautions, including only straying out when the crowds are smallest, I still feel exposed.


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## pedro47 (Oct 11, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> We thought with all the emphasis on safety, it wouldn’t be to bad. I was wrong. Guests have a complete disregard for social distancing and masks..... hahahahaha. There are so many people either not wearing them at all or having them pulled down below their nose or tucked under their chin.
> Even though we’re taking all precautions, including only straying out when the crowds are smallest, I still feel exposed.



Thanks doup26345, for your observations of what is going in Vegas. 
"What goes on in Vegas, Stays in Vegas."
I hope the coronavirus stays in Vegas.


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## WVBaker (Oct 11, 2020)

[Deleted - Missing Band Camp?]


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## DeniseM (Oct 11, 2020)

We enjoy casino's and have a 2nd home in Nevada, but by their very nature, casinos are not particularly clean, or condusive to social distancing.  I don't think this is any reflection on Las Vegas - it's the nature of the beast.


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## WVBaker (Oct 11, 2020)

DeniseM said:


> We enjoy casino's and have a 2nd home in Nevada, but by their very nature, casinos are not particularly clean, or condusive to social distancing.  I don't think this is any reflection on Las Vegas - it's the nature of the beast.


Denise, you continue to amaze me.


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## pedro47 (Oct 11, 2020)

Is the Vegas strip empty during the day & night liked in downtown in New York City?
When I am watching the morning news shows on ABC and NBC, New York City downtown looked empty.

The Vegas strip was always busy IMHO.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 11, 2020)

DeniseM said:


> We enjoy casino's and have a 2nd home in Nevada, but by their very nature, casinos are not particularly clean, or condusive to social distancing.  I don't think this is any reflection on Las Vegas - it's the nature of the beast.



It would be great if it were only the casinos. We’re not big gamblers and the only time we’ve stepped into a casino was 8:30 AM when we walked thru a small portion of Bellagio to see the conservatory. This morning we were out for a walk on the strip at 7:00 AM. I’d estimate a solid 10% of the people we passed either didn’t have a mask on or were wearing it improperly. Most impressive was the mask less man relieving himself in public just south of Polo Towers in front of that small, old strip mall.


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## JohnPaul (Oct 11, 2020)

We have an unheard of (for us) problem of a lot of NYC HGVC points that have to be used in 2021.

Normally we would spend as much time as possible in NYC but times aren’t normal.

Although we aren’t really Vegas fans, we decided to try a week at The Elara in February in one of the high floor units. We hope to enjoy the view and lights of Vegas and just hang out.

I’m already a little worried about elevators (we will be somewhere on floors 51 to 56) but your post gives me a new worry.

Just to be clear, we aren’t afraid of traveling as we have been and will be pretty much on the road since things began opening on May 15.   Mostly timeshares and just enjoying driving to and being in new places.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 11, 2020)

Thanks @Doug7856 for the update. We have been tempted to have a getaway to Vegas but will hold off. We can wait a year. I hate it when people ruin it for the rest of us.


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## jabberwocky (Oct 11, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> This morning we were out for a walk on the strip at 7:00 AM. I’d estimate a solid 10% of the people we passed either didn’t have a mask on or were wearing it improperly. Most impressive was the mask less man relieving himself in public just south of Polo Towers in front of that small, old strip mall.


Would it have been better if the man relieving himself was wearing a mask? It's unfortunate, but I don't think it's much different than you would experience in many larger cities with a significant homeless population. It's tough to see the connection to covid here, particularly as I don't think masks are required in outdoor locations.


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## klpca (Oct 11, 2020)

I have seen that when people vacation, they seem to take a vacation from their masks as well (when the whole family gets out of their out-of-state car you recognize the trend). Best advice is to go where the people aren't. It's a challenge but it will make you feel better.


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## PcflEZFlng (Oct 11, 2020)

klpca said:


> Best advice is to go where the people aren't.


^^This. Absolutely.


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## Snazzylass (Oct 11, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> It would be great if it were only the casinos. We’re not big gamblers and the only time we’ve stepped into a casino was 8:30 AM when we walked thru a small portion of Bellagio to see the conservatory. This morning we were out for a walk on the strip at 7:00 AM. I’d estimate a solid 10% of the people we passed either didn’t have a mask on or were wearing it improperly.


So, just to be clear, your complaint is about people Not wearing masks outdoors?

I just watched a YouTube about a young couple there. They didn't mention this.

May I ask, why Vegas? er, maybe even, why travel?


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## Cornell (Oct 11, 2020)

I saw the title of you post and assumed it was about the crime that I hear has taken off in LV . 

Are masks required outdoors there ?









						Violent crime on the Las Vegas Strip is up. Here's what the sheriff has to say about it.
					

The USA TODAY Network talked with elected Las Vegas sheriff Joe Lombardo about why crime is up on The Strip and what police are doing about it.



					www.rgj.com


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## Cornell (Oct 11, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> It would be great if it were only the casinos. We’re not big gamblers and the only time we’ve stepped into a casino was 8:30 AM when we walked thru a small portion of Bellagio to see the conservatory. This morning we were out for a walk on the strip at 7:00 AM. I’d estimate a solid 10% of the people we passed either didn’t have a mask on or were wearing it improperly. Most impressive was the mask less man relieving himself in public just south of Polo Towers in front of that small, old strip mall.


How crowded was it walking the strip at 7 AM?


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## JohnPaul (Oct 11, 2020)

Well.  Vegas streets can be so crowded that people should have masks outdoors.  Difficult to social distance.


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## controller1 (Oct 11, 2020)

JohnPaul said:


> Well.  Vegas streets can be so crowded that people should have masks outdoors.  Difficult to social distance.



At 7:00 am during a pandemic when there are no conventions/conferences?


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## Karen G (Oct 11, 2020)

Cornell said:


> Are masks required outdoors there ?


No, masks aren't required outdoors, but people are encouraged to abide by  all the other stuff like washing your hands, social distancing, etc. That doesn't mean they all do, though.  We took a visitor who had never been to Las Vegas on a drive up the Strip, through the downtown area by Fremont St., and back down the Strip on a Friday night a couple of weeks ago. We were always in the car and did the drive-through at In-and-Out before dropping our vistor at the airport. Things were pretty calm on our little excursion and there were uniformed police and security all along the way.  It seemed very safe to me, although we found out that later that night there was some incident with a shot fired somewhere along our route.

I've heard that with room rates ridiculously low there has been trouble at some hotels with a very different clientele that apparently don't know how to behave.  The sheriff's remarks above are a good description of what's going on here.  I'll be so glad when things get back to normal when shows, conventions and sporting events can resume. Las Vegas is such a fun, unique place and it's really sad to see how this pandemic has affected everything.


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## jabberwocky (Oct 11, 2020)

What I’m finding impressive is that 90% were wearing masks outdoors at that time of day. In my experience you won’t run into many people on the strip between 5 am and 11 am - and that was before the pandemic ranked travel.


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## Cornell (Oct 11, 2020)

Karen G said:


> No, masks aren't required outdoors, but people are encouraged to abide by  all the other stuff like washing your hands, social distancing, etc. That doesn't mean they all do, though.  We took a visitor who had never been to Las Vegas on a drive up the Strip, through the downtown area by Fremont St., and back down the Strip on a Friday night a couple of weeks ago. We were always in the car and did the drive-through at In-and-Out before dropping our vistor at the airport. Things were pretty calm on our little excursion and there were uniformed police and security all along the way.  It seemed very safe to me, although we found out that later that night there was some incident with a shot fired somewhere along our route.
> 
> I've heard that with room rates ridiculously low there has been trouble at some hotels with a very different clientele that apparently don't know how to behave.  The sheriff's remarks above are a good description of what's going on here.  I'll be so glad when things get back to normal when shows, conventions and sporting events can resume. Las Vegas is such a fun, unique place and it's really sad to see how this pandemic has affected everything.


Yeah, in my personal risk analysis, the crime seems to be a bigger issue in LV than 10% non mask compliance outdoors.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 11, 2020)

Not only outdoors but in. I walked down to the ABC store in the Miracle Mile Shops and compliance was severely lacking and no enforcement going on. That’s what actually prompted my post more so than when outdoors.

I had thought they were requiring masks anywhere on the strip, in or out. 

At 7:00 Am it wasn’t crowded. Walking back in to Elara through the mall on a Saturday night was crowded.


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## JohnPaul (Oct 11, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> At 7:00 Am it wasn’t crowded. Walking back in to Elara through the mall on a Saturday night was crowded.



How is the elevator situation at the Elara?


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## dougp26364 (Oct 11, 2020)

JohnPaul said:


> How is the elevator situation at the Elara?



They’re not regulating how many people can enter an elevator. 

We overheard a salesman tell a couple that they’re limited to 40% occupancy right now. I’m not sure how much I believe that statement.


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## CPNY (Oct 11, 2020)

pedro47 said:


> Is the Vegas strip empty during the day & night liked in downtown in New York City?
> When I am watching the morning news shows on ABC and NBC, New York City downtown looked empty.
> 
> The Vegas strip was always busy IMHO.


Nyc is going to suffer for a long time.


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## davidvel (Oct 12, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> Not only outdoors but in. I walked down to the ABC store in the Miracle Mile Shops and compliance was severely lacking and no enforcement going on. That’s what actually prompted my post more so than when outdoors.
> 
> I had thought they were requiring masks anywhere on the strip, in or out.
> 
> At 7:00 Am it wasn’t crowded. Walking back in to Elara through the mall on a Saturday night was crowded.


We ate at a restaurant in the Miracle mile shops Thursday night and almost everyone was wearing a mask. I was actually shocked at how many people were wearing masks. We were in St George over the weekend, and practically none of the locals wore masks at local restaurants and in stores.


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## Snazzylass (Oct 12, 2020)

davidvel said:


> We ate at a restaurant in the Miracle mile shops Thursday night and almost everyone was wearing a mask. I was actually shocked at how many people were wearing masks. We were in St George over the weekend, and practically none of the locals wore masks at local restaurants and in stores.


That's been my experience too whenever I'm in a small town and outside a Metro area - less mask wearing 

Well, just one more sign of my Big City Ways when I travel to my beloved rural Indiana

I stopped by the Desert Botanical Garden here in PHX yesterday. It's 100% outdoors, but both reservations and masks are required. I saw a few folks wearing masks on the West Fork Trail in Oak Creek Canyon last week.


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## Roger830 (Oct 12, 2020)

davidvel said:


> We ate at a restaurant in the Miracle mile shops Thursday night and almost everyone was wearing a mask.



If you were there Sunday you might have seen the latest shooting.









						Man shot at Miracle Mile shops on Las Vegas Strip, suspect at large
					

UPDATE, Oct. 12 | Police say a shooting on the Las Vegas Strip Sunday night started with two men meeting a third, unidentified man to complete a drug deal. There was an altercation, and the unidentified man shot one of the pair in the leg, according to LVMPD. That person's injuries are not...




					news3lv.com
				




"LAS VEGAS (KSNV) — On Sunday evening, another shooting has been reported on the Las Vegas Strip.
The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department responded to reports of a shooting at the Miracle Mile shops, located near Las Vegas Boulevard and Harmon, at 7:27 p.m.
The victim was transported to the hospital. He is expected to survive."


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## GrayFal (Oct 12, 2020)

JohnPaul said:


> Well.  Vegas streets can be so crowded that people should have masks outdoors.  Difficult to social distance.


Exactly 
If you can’t stay 6 feet apart, wear a mask. 
Hard to imagine being 6 feet apart on the strip.


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## CalGalTraveler (Oct 12, 2020)

While I agree with mask safety in crowded areas, I have not seen convincing evidence that Vegas crime is any higher than before the pandemic.


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## Roger830 (Oct 12, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> While I agree with mask safety in crowded areas, I have not seen convincing evidence that Vegas crime is any higher than before the pandemic.











						LVMPD says they are seeing success in fight against crime on The Strip
					

The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department said it’s seeing success in combating recent crime on The Strip. Police Captain Dori Koren told the Clark County Board of Commissioners at its meeting Tuesday much of the recent violence on the Strip has involved out of state visitors, including gang...




					news3lv.com
				




"Police Captain Dori Koren told the Clark County Board of Commissioners at its meeting Tuesday much of the recent violence on the Strip has involved out of state visitors, including gang members.
Koren didn’t have the exact numbers of how many of the arrests were people from out of state but said most were not locals.
Koren said the Convention Center Area, which includes The Strip, has seen an uptick this year in violent crimes, specifically aggravated assaults."


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## jabberwocky (Oct 12, 2020)

CalGalTraveler said:


> While I agree with mask safety in crowded areas, I have not seen convincing evidence that Vegas crime is any higher than before the pandemic.


There has always been a significant criminal element in Vegas.  With the number of tourists down so much, crime is now probably much more visible than it was before. It also fits into the narrative that the virus is causing the breakdown of civil society.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 12, 2020)

Keep in mind, if you’re not wearing a mask properly, it’s as bad as not wearing it at all. Most have one on, but pulled down below their nose. This the mask offers little protection against the virus and does very little to block spreading the virus unless the person has no air flowing through their nose. 

Having had my nose completely blocked once, I can say with almost certainty none of these people fit that bill.

Perhaps being a nurse I’m more sensitive and observant to proper wearing of a mask wear as the general public pays outlets attention.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 12, 2020)

jabberwocky said:


> There has always been a significant criminal element in Vegas.  With the number of tourists down so much, crime is now probably much more visible than it was before. It also fits into the narrative that the virus is causing the breakdown of civil society.



I’ve seen the police helicopter circle just east of the strip the past 2 days and overheard conversations about gunfire. 

Keep in mind I believe overheard conversations like rumors spread by timeshare salesmen. Still, it’s conversation I haven’t heard on part trips


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## WVBaker (Oct 12, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> I’ve seen the police helicopter circle just east of the strip the past 2 days and overheard conversations about gunfire.
> 
> Keep in mind I believe overheard conversations like rumors spread by timeshare salesmen. Still, it’s conversation I haven’t heard on part trips



Sounds like most large cities.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 14, 2020)

Cornell said:


> I saw the title of you post and assumed it was about the crime that I hear has taken off in LV .
> 
> Are masks required outdoors there ?
> 
> ...



Having spent most of a week here, I can understand this article, except I’d blame a LOT more than the $10 average price drop in room rates. 

Until they started building all these mega-resorts. it was EASY to get an inexpensive room in Vegas. It’s the reason we started coming to Vegas back in 1998, it was cheap. It’s only been the last decade or so that it started to get expensive. It was about that time the gambling odds/rules got bad and all those “gamblers specials” of $2.99 steak and eggs, $5.99 prime rib dinners or $9.99 steak and lobster tail specials went away. Crime was low back then so what’s changed since? Sorry Mr Sheriff, but it’s not a drop of $10/night that’s the cause of all the violent crime in Vegas.


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## WVBaker (Oct 14, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> Having spent most of a week here, I can understand this article, except I’d blame a LOT more than the $10 average price drop in room rates.
> 
> Until they started building all these mega-resorts. it was EASY to get an inexpensive room in Vegas. It’s the reason we started coming to Vegas back in 1998, it was cheap. It’s only been the last decade or so that it started to get expensive. It was about that time the gambling odds/rules got bad and all those “gamblers specials” of $2.99 steak and eggs, $5.99 prime rib dinners or $9.99 steak and lobster tail specials went away. Crime was low back then so what’s changed since? Sorry Mr Sheriff, but it’s not a drop of $10/night that’s the cause of all the violent crime in Vegas.


So Vegas should dissuade visitors in order to bring the crime rate down?


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## dougp26364 (Oct 14, 2020)

WVBaker said:


> So Vegas should dissuade visitors in order to bring the crime rate down?



I didn’t say that at all. However, in the past they kept room occupancy high and crime lower despite low prices. Maybe they should look further than cheap hotel rooms? This is a multi-factorial issue far beyond cheap rooms


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## JohnPaul (Oct 14, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> Keep in mind, if you’re not wearing a mask properly, it’s as bad as not wearing it at all. Most have one on, but pulled down below their nose. This the mask offers little protection against the virus and does very little to block spreading the virus unless the person has no air flowing through their nose.
> 
> Having had my nose completely blocked once, I can say with almost certainty none of these people fit that bill.
> 
> Perhaps being a nurse I’m more sensitive and observant to proper wearing of a mask wear as the general public pays outlets attention.



As they say:  “Seeing how people wear masks I understand why contraception fails”


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## WVBaker (Oct 14, 2020)

dougp26364 said:


> Having spent most of a week here, I can understand this article, except I’d blame a LOT more than the $10 average price drop in room rates.
> 
> Until they started building all these mega-resorts. it was EASY to get an inexpensive room in Vegas. It’s the reason we started coming to Vegas back in 1998, it was cheap. It’s only been the last decade or so that it started to get expensive. It was about that time the gambling odds/rules got bad and all those “gamblers specials” of $2.99 steak and eggs, $5.99 prime rib dinners or $9.99 steak and lobster tail specials went away. Crime was low back then so what’s changed since? Sorry Mr Sheriff, but it’s not a drop of $10/night that’s the cause of all the violent crime in Vegas.


So Vegas should dissuade visitors in order to bring the crime rate down?


dougp26364 said:


> I didn’t say that at all. However, in the past they kept room occupancy high and crime lower despite low prices. Maybe they should look further than cheap hotel rooms? This is a multi-factorial issue far beyond cheap rooms



We would certainly agree that crime rates in Las Vegas, as with perhaps all metropolitan areas, is indeed a multi-factorial issue. Given that, we must understand that Las Vegas is a city built on and sustained by tourist. Increased crime rates go hand in hand with an increase in population. That being visitors and occupants combined. With that increase also comes businesses, jobs and tax revenue. All of which any city would strive for under any conditions.

The resorts are there and will continue to be expanded as long as the business is there. That's simply a good business model for any entity, resort or otherwise. As with any business, the concept is to attract and keep customers. With the resorts, each desires to be better than the other simply because, in doing so, you get more customers or guests. This, along with inflation of course, led to the demise of the "inexpensive" room, for the most part. They're still around, but I don't think either of us would stay in any.

Yes, crime was lower in the 90's in Las Vegas, but keep in mind, crime was lower nearly everywhere back then. The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and Sheriff Lombardo are working as hard as possible to keep up with the crime problem. States and cities long for and make every effort to attract more visitors and tourists and with that, comes additional crime. Keep in mind who must deal with that increase in crime and in most cases, with no increase in additional resources.


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## dougp26364 (Oct 14, 2020)

WVBaker said:


> So Vegas should dissuade visitors in order to bring the crime rate down?
> 
> 
> We would certainly agree that crime rates in Las Vegas, as with perhaps all metropolitan areas, is indeed a multi-factorial issue. Given that, we must understand that Las Vegas is a city built on and sustained by tourist. Increased crime rates go hand in hand with an increase in population. That being visitors and occupants combined. With that increase also comes businesses, jobs and tax revenue. All of which any city would strive for under any conditions.
> ...



If you don’t hold a political office, you should consider running.


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## Roger830 (Oct 14, 2020)

The crime rate on the strip has gone up over last year while the tourist population has decreased over 50%.

Therefore the crime rate as a function of the tourist population has increased over 100%.

Per TripAdvisor message board, it is not only the actual crime that's a problem, but also fear of becoming a victim. 
On weekends there has been a large increase in young rowdy males drinking and loitering on the strip, especially around the Linq-Flamingo area.
It been said that with states like CA being locked down, young men travel to Vegas to party.


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## DaveNV (Oct 14, 2020)

davidvel said:


> We were in St George over the weekend, and practically none of the locals wore masks at local restaurants and in stores.



I shop in St. George just about weekly. Virtually every retail store has signs at the entrances saying masks are required, and many have someone at the doorway to hand out masks to those who don't have them.  Not the same with restaurants, but we are avoiding indoor restaurants right now.  Drive-through is all we're doing.  I noticed on Tuesday the In-N-Out in St. George has outdoor tables for those who want to sit down and eat.  Of the dozen or so people I watched sitting there while I was in the drive-through line, none were wearing masks. So it's a crap shoot for what you'll see.

Dave


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## WVBaker (Oct 14, 2020)

Roger830 said:


> Therefore the crime rate as a function of the tourist population has increased over 100%.



If you could, explain your reasoning of, "Therefore the crime rate as a function of the tourist population has increased over 100%."  

A recent report from KTNV, reports that indeed violent crimes, those involving a firearm or knife, are up from last year. Here are the numbers provided.

Shootings rose by 5% but stabbings went up 17% from just under 1000 incidents to 1100 this year.

Arrests for assault also jumped by 8% and arrests for rape went up 6%









						LVMPD: Crime on Las Vegas Strip is on the rise
					

Crime is on the rise on the Las Vegas Strip according to new statistics released by Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.




					www.ktnv.com


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## dioxide45 (Oct 14, 2020)

WVBaker said:


> If you could, explain your reasoning of, "Therefore the crime rate as a function of the tourist population has increased over 100%."
> 
> A recent report from KTNV, reports that indeed violent crimes, those involving a firearm or knife, are up from last year. Here are the numbers provided.
> 
> ...


If you are measuring crime based on a ratio of crimes per tourist. I suspect that is how they came up with the over 100% since tourism is down 50%.


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## chellej (Oct 14, 2020)

My son's girlfriend works at a coffee shop and posted this after dealing with so many noncompliant people...I think it sums it up pretty well


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## Roger830 (Oct 14, 2020)

WVBaker said:


> If you could, explain your reasoning of, "Therefore the crime rate as a function of the tourist population has increased over 100%."



From the link in post # 30, "Koren said the Convention Center Area, which includes The Strip, has seen an uptick this year in violent crimes, specifically aggravated assaults."

Crime is up on the strip. 
If last year there were 5000 crimes on the strip and 5,000,000 tourist, then the crime rate was 5000 / 5,000,000 = 0.1%
If this year there are more than 5000 crimes but only 2,500,000 tourists, then the crime rate is over 0.2% or more than a 100% increase based on the tourist population.
These are not real figures, just an example.


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## Jan M. (Oct 14, 2020)

We've been coming to Vegas once or twice a year most years since 2001. We started with 5 night stays but they quickly became 10-12 night stays. That was before we retired and now they're longer! We regularly gamble at places off the Strip and off Fremont Street. Some that many people wouldn't set foot in. We've gotten to know some of the dealers and pit bosses well enough to be recognized and in some cases greeted by name when they see us. The regulars at those places usually assume we're locals like them. All that has given us a better picture of Vegas than most tourists.

We were in Vegas for two nights at Wyndham Desert Blue resort at the start of this trip on 9/9, the week of 9/26-10/3 at Grandview at Las Vegas in the middle and will end with a night back in Vegas on 10/16. We're wondering if there will be more people when we go back on Friday. We were shocked at how few people we saw at both resorts, on the Strip, in the Bellagio when we went to see the conservatory and how little traffic there was. At 1:30pm there wasn't a single table game open in huge table game area just off the lobby at the Bellagio and only a handful of people at the slots. More than anything else we've experienced to date, what we've seen in Vegas this trip brought home to us what this has done to our Country's economy, the impact it's having on people's lives. It certainly has given us a more pressing concern for all of our futures.

Areas that rely heavily on tourism are very good about keeping things out of the public eye as much as they can. However I'm still flabbergasted that people think the crime rate was ever low in Vegas! In researching for our very first trip back in 2001 I found multiple warnings about protecting your purse/wallet at the Treasure Island pirate show because it was a favored venue for pickpockets. We were told not to take the bus to or from Downtown at night because thieves were boarding the buses at the bus stops in one stretch of the route to rob tourists. Over the years we were warned repeatedly to stay away from certain areas. Behind the Stratosphere was one really bad area. We used to see cardboard camps of homeless in areas around Downtown. When they tried to sleep or panhandle for money on the Strip or on Fremont Street the  police would be quick to get them gone.

We still remember one trip when there was a motor cycle gang shooting on the Strip and at the Harrahs in Laughlin. That made the news and we got calls from home.

After the recession that began in 2008 there were more problems. One of the younger dealers at a place we spent a lot of time playing blackjack on our trips warned me about my jewelry. Our March trips were for our anniversary and a convention for my job that I had to dress up a little more for than I did for work and had few occasions or inclinations to do outside of work. Dressing up a little more and wearing pretty jewelry became something I looked forward to doing in Vegas for all our trips. I told him my gold earrings and heavier chain necklace were just Monet costume jewelry. He said that didn't matter because they looked real and made me a target. He explained that people were desperate because they were out of work and that drug use was way up with more peop!e turning to drugs to escape their situation.

For awhile there was increased security patrolling out front of Wyndham Grand Desert because guests had been robbed on the street walking to and from the resort. Then we noticed concrete barriers had been placed between the sidewalks and the streets on the side streets in Downtown. We thought it was construction but were told it was because people were being robbed by thieves who would jump out of cars that pulled up next to the sidewalks.

Trips in 2018 and 2019 to Austin, Portland and San Diego made us really appreciate how much safer we'd felt in Las Vegas all these years. Security in the casinos has always been tight as you would expect. The Las Vegas police department does an amazing job of being very visibly present with patrol cars, officers on foot and on bikes. Even though they're vigilant about keeping the Strip and Fremont Street safe for tourists there are still incidents.

This trip we haven't done any gambling. I never thought I'd see the day I'd be In Vegas and not gamble! We enjoy playing at a full or mostly full blackjack table with a fun group of people. Now the tables have plexiglass dividers between the three players that are permitted at a table and the dealer too. Not our idea of fun.

I'm reminded of the saying that you can't control what other people do just how you react/respond to them. Since we begin traveling again in mid June we've met a number of people. Several are doctors and several are nurses. As always it's been quite interesting and an education talking to many of them. Like you would expect sometimes the topic of Covid comes up. Most observed, as have I now, that almost no one wears or uses their masks correctly. Also almost no one changes their masks as often as they should either.

What has appalled me the most has been seeing people hiking with their masks on at high elevations with no one within 50 or more feet of them. Seeing parents with younger kids hiking with their masks on really alarmed me. If you don't live in a high elevation area and travel to one it's going to be harder to breathe. Doing things that require more exertion at a high elevation you aren't acclimated to while wearing a mask the whole time isn't good. It would have been better for them to take their masks off and put them back on when they come into close proximity of other people than to leave them on.

In our travels we've limited our eating out or getting carry out because I have more concerns about that than I will ever have about masks and whether or not people wear or use them correctly. Having to get certified and recertified to teach food safety and handling will do that to you. I wish I could say lol but this is something that I can't bring myself to say that about. We had breakfast at a favorite place the first morning of this trip after getting in late the night before. As a result of that experience in the 36 days so far of this trip have only eaten out 4 more times. And only because we were on the road with a 5-9.5 hour drive to our next resort. One of those meals was a hot dog and a strawberry sundae at Costco that we ate in the car when we stopped there for gas! The restaurant had removed some tables for distancing but the remaining tables were full. I saw our waitress come out of the kitchen loaded down with plates. After stopping at one table to drop off their food she proceeded to walk with the rest of her load through a group of people not social distancing at the entrance where the cash register is. It's not a large enough area to make social distancing possible. Masks were required if you weren't at your table. I kept thinking please, please don't let her be carrying our food but of course she was. By the time she got to the corner where we were sitting she had walked with our food through the entire circuit of the restaurant with tables on both sides of her and by all the people in the entrance/cash register area. I calmed myself down by remembering how many people have been eating food handled and prepared by other people at restaurants either at the restaurants or carry out and delivery since the start of Covid. How many people practiced absolutely no social distancing in the protests and rioting. Plus all the other facts and information I know about Covid and masks. In the middle of chowing down his meal DH asked if something was wrong with my food because I was picking at it and didn't look happy. Rather than ruin the meal for both of us I waited until later to tell him about it. So since then we've splurged on groceries, treating ourselves to whatever we want, and have been happily eating in.

The one really nice thing to come out of this trip is the money we've saved not gambling and eating out will easily pay for another long trip. This trip was originally supposed to be a 3 week trip to Vegas and the Star Train Excursion on the restored Northern Nevada Railroad in Ely, NV for DH's 71st birthday. If it wasn't for Covid we would have spent time in casinos gambling and seeing shows with a few nights in Flagstaff thrown in. Instead we ended up extending the trip to 5.5 weeks and going other places too. Vino Bello for 10 nights, Angel's Camp for 4 nights, Sedona for 8 nights and Flagstaff for 5 nights. We did things and went places that weren't on our bucket list but should have been. In spite of Covid we didn't just make lemonade from lemons but we added vodka to it too, lol!


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## davidvel (Oct 14, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I shop in St. George just about weekly. Virtually every retail store has signs at the entrances saying masks are required, and many have someone at the doorway to hand out masks to those who don't have them.  Not the same with restaurants, but we are avoiding indoor restaurants right now.  Drive-through is all we're doing.  I noticed on Tuesday the In-N-Out in St. George has outdoor tables for those who want to sit down and eat.  Of the dozen or so people I watched sitting there while I was in the drive-through line, none were wearing masks. So it's a crap shoot for what you'll see.
> 
> Dave


We honked when we drove through Mesquite...


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## DaveNV (Oct 14, 2020)

davidvel said:


> We honked when we drove through Mesquite...



That was you?  I wondered who it was.  

Dave


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## WVBaker (Oct 14, 2020)

dioxide45 said:


> If you are measuring crime based on a ratio of crimes per tourist. I suspect that is how they came up with the over 100% since tourism is down 50%.


I don't know if I would base a cities total crime rate, increase or decrease, solely on the numbers of tourists. There's simply much more to a total population figure.


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## WVBaker (Oct 14, 2020)

Roger830 said:


> From the link in post # 30, "Koren said the Convention Center Area, which includes The Strip, has seen an uptick this year in violent crimes, specifically aggravated assaults."
> 
> Crime is up on the strip.
> If last year there were 5000 crimes on the strip and 5,000,000 tourist, then the crime rate was 5000 / 5,000,000 = 0.1%
> ...


See post# 50. In cities such as Las Vegas, there are simply too many variables to consider. I would look at the entire picture and not just a portion and then draw a conclusion.


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## clifffaith (Oct 14, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> That was you?  I wondered who it was.
> 
> Dave



We had family friends (now both deceased) who lived near enough to the freeway in a California desert town that they could wave a banner/flag that could be seen by their kids and grandkids as they drove by on their way home to other desert communities. They'd get a phone call that one of the family would be driving by, and they'd go out in the backyard to wave the flag as the kids drove by. They were years ahead of their time for pandemic social distancing!


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## DaveNV (Oct 14, 2020)

clifffaith said:


> We had family friends (now both deceased) who lived near enough to the freeway in a California desert town that they could wave a banner/flag that could be seen by their kids and grandkids as they drove by on their way home to other desert communities. They'd get a phone call that one of the family would be driving by, and they'd go out in the backyard to wave the flag as the kids drove by. They were years ahead of their time for pandemic social distancing!



Great story.  I'd wave a flag from here, but the only people who'd be able to see it would be the next door neighbor. 

Dave


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## easyrider (Oct 14, 2020)

I did like Vegas when I was younger. Big parties and loud music were really fun back then. It was a blast and now a very good memory. 

Bill


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## PigsDad (Oct 15, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> I noticed on Tuesday the In-N-Out in St. George has *outdoor tables* for those who want to sit down and *eat*.  Of the dozen or so people I watched sitting there while I was in the drive-through line, none were wearing masks. So it's a crap shoot for what you'll see.


So you are surprised that people are not wearing masks, _outside_, while eating???

Kurt


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## DaveNV (Oct 15, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> So you are surprised that people are not wearing masks, _outside_, while eating???
> 
> Kurt



Nobody was eating.  Just a lot of talking and hugging going on. 

Dave


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## Roger830 (Oct 15, 2020)

WVBaker said:


> See post# 50. In cities such as Las Vegas, there are simply too many variables to consider. I would look at the entire picture and not just a portion and then draw a conclusion.



In Vegas we have rented at the Holiday Inn Desert Club which is one block east of the strip behind the High Roller ferris wheel and the area where there has been a lot of rowdy activity.
I don't care about the crime rate of the city as a whole, just the tourist area that I visit.

We used to feel safe in midtown NYC even though there were other areas of the city to avoid. Now we want to avoid Vegas strip.


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## pedro47 (Oct 15, 2020)

DaveNV said:


> Nobody was eating.  Just a lot of talking and hugging going on.
> 
> Dave


DaveNV, LOL, what is wrong with hugging ?.
I know  in this setting: The Final Answer, it can spread COVID-19.  Now that is not funny.

Please wear your mask, practice social distancing and wash your hands with soap & water for 20 seconds.


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## PigsDad (Oct 15, 2020)

pedro47 said:


> DaveNV, LOL, what is wrong with hugging ?.


In this situation, most likely absolutely nothing.  If they were all part of their "pod", what's wrong with hugging?  

Kurt


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## davidvel (Oct 15, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> In this situation, most likely absolutely nothing.  If they were all part of their "pod", what's wrong with hugging?
> 
> Kurt


So they all left a single house, went to In and Out, and started hugging? Doubt it.


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## Cornell (Oct 15, 2020)

This is what we are reduced to?  Making judgements about people we see outside at a restaurant hugging?  Judge away.  If I'm meeting a friend , I'm hugging them.


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## PigsDad (Oct 15, 2020)

davidvel said:


> So they all left a single house, went to In and Out, and started hugging? Doubt it.


Who says a pod only includes people from your own house?

Kurt


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## PigsDad (Oct 15, 2020)

Cornell said:


> This is what we are reduced to?  Making judgements about people we see outside at a restaurant hugging?  Judge away.  If I'm meeting a friend , I'm hugging them.


Amen!  Preach it, Sister!  

I also find it extremely sad how judgmental some people have become.

Kurt


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## Cornell (Oct 15, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> Amen!  Preach it, Sister!
> 
> Kurt


It's absolute nonsense.  I'm not living my life like this any more.  Go ahead TUG - pile on.  But remember -- two weeks to flatten the curve?  I'm DONE.


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## WVBaker (Oct 15, 2020)

Cornell said:


> This is what we are reduced to?  Making judgements about people we see outside at a restaurant hugging?  Judge away.  If I'm meeting a friend , I'm hugging them.



You bad, bad girl.


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## DaveNV (Oct 15, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> In this situation, most likely absolutely nothing.  If they were all part of their "pod", what's wrong with hugging?
> 
> Kurt



I agree - these people obviously knew each other, or were certainly getting acquainted. No social distancing was happening. The point of my post was in response to a previous post about people not wearing masks in St. George.  If anyone else had wanted to get their food and go sit outside to eat, they wouldn't have been able to, without being surrounded by these people not wearing masks. 

Dave


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## Cornell (Oct 15, 2020)

WVBaker said:


> You bad, bad girl.


You know what else I would do? Walk the strip at LV with, gasp, no mask, at 7 AM because I find it very hard to believe that there are lots of people out there at that time.


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## WVBaker (Oct 15, 2020)

Cornell said:


> You know what else I would do? Walk the strip at LV with, gasp, no mask, at 7 AM because I find it very hard to believe that there are lots of people out there at that time.


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## davidvel (Oct 16, 2020)

PigsDad said:


> Who says a pod only includes people from your own house?
> 
> Kurt


I presumed that was what you meant based on the context of your post and what you were responding to. What did you mean?


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## pianodinosaur (Oct 16, 2020)

Going to Las Vegas in 1 week.  Glad to know the shops and restaurants are open.  We would like to take guided tours to the Grand Canyon and to Hoover Dam.  Are any live performances taking place?


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## WVBaker (Oct 16, 2020)

pianodinosaur said:


> Going to Las Vegas in 1 week.  Glad to know the shops and restaurants are open.  We would like to take guided tours to the Grand Canyon and to Hoover Dam.  Are any live performances taking place?



See if this helps you out.






						Arts & Entertainment -
					






					lasvegassun.com


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## Karen G (Oct 16, 2020)

pianodinosaur said:


> Going to Las Vegas in 1 week.  Glad to know the shops and restaurants are open.  We would like to take guided tours to the Grand Canyon and to Hoover Dam.  Are any live performances taking place?


You might check this website to see if any shows are available:  https://www.vegas.com/iv2/searchres...201103/category/all/sort/popular?changeDate=1

Here's a place to start for tours:  https://www.tripsavvy.com/best-grand-canyon-tours-4163654

You may be leaving before this happens, but it will be an interesting place to check out. The Circa is a brand new hotel down on Fremont St. https://www.circalasvegas.com/blog/circa-las-vegas-grand-opening/


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## Karen G (Oct 16, 2020)

Las Vegas sheriff's latest article:  https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...e-will-stem-las-vegas-strip-violence-2151245/


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## davidvel (Oct 16, 2020)

pianodinosaur said:


> Going to Las Vegas in 1 week.  Glad to know the shops and restaurants are open.  We would like to take guided tours to the Grand Canyon and to Hoover Dam.  Are any live performances taking place?


FYI, Hoover Dam is currently CLOSED due to pandemic. I wish (as does my family) I had known this before I drove there last weekend.


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## jabberwocky (Oct 16, 2020)

Karen G said:


> Las Vegas sheriff's latest article:  https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...e-will-stem-las-vegas-strip-violence-2151245/


Thanks for posting.  I find the YTD statistics most interesting. 

Violent crime is only up 1% on the Strip.  Property crime is down over 40%.

As I suspected, this is largely due to media highlighting crime, and the increased visibility of it relative to the lower number of visitors. Perception and reality are two different things in this case if you believe the statistics.


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## VacationForever (Oct 16, 2020)

We have a pod of 3 separate couples (plus us).  We golf, dine in and out together, separately with each couple.  After a while you decide the level of risk you are taking and who you can trust to be in your inner circle/pod.


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## Karen G (Oct 16, 2020)

davidvel said:


> FYI, Hoover Dam is currently CLOSED due to pandemic. I wish (as does my family) I had known this before I drove there last weekend.


Can you still park and walk across the pedestrian bridge for a great view of the dam? Is it just the tours that are closed?


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## pianodinosaur (Oct 17, 2020)

Thanks to Karen G and WVBaker!!!
We used your links to Viator and booked a Grand Canyon tour and a Red Rock Canyon tour.  Seems like Viator can be used to book guided tours all over the world.  The TUGGER community is fantastic.


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## davidvel (Oct 17, 2020)

Karen G said:


> Can you still park and walk across the pedestrian bridge for a great view of the dam? Is it just the tours that are closed?


No, road to the Dam  is closed at security post, pedestrian access to Mike O'Callaghan–Pat Tillman  bridge walkway is closed. You can't see a thing. Ask my kids, they are still reminding me of the wasted 2 hours.


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## jeffox (Oct 17, 2020)

davidvel said:


> No, road to the Dam  is closed at security post, pedestrian access to Mike O'Callaghan–Pat Tillman  bridge walkway is closed. You can't see a thing. Ask my kids, they are still reminding me of the wasted 2 hours.



I took my kids years ago when it was open and they still remind me of the wasted 2 hours. They just wanted to be back at the pool.


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## WVBaker (Oct 17, 2020)

jeffox said:


> I took my kids years ago when it was open and they still remind me of the wasted 2 hours. They just wanted to be back at the pool.



Just like most kids.


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## Karen G (Oct 20, 2020)

davidvel said:


> FYI, Hoover Dam is currently CLOSED due to pandemic. I wish (as does my family) I had known this before I drove there last weekend.


I just heard on the radio that the dam is open again for all outdoor areas. No tours or visitor center, but you can walk across the pedestrian bridge.


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## Karen G (Oct 20, 2020)

A few shows are starting to open:  https://www.pressreader.com/usa/las-vegas-review-journal/20201020/281595243017557


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## controller1 (Oct 20, 2020)

Karen G said:


> A few shows are starting to open:  https://www.pressreader.com/usa/las-vegas-review-journal/20201020/281595243017557



Since each show's attendance is drastically reduced from the pre-COVID performances I must assume the ticket prices will escalate greatly. I didn't see anything in the article pertaining to ticket prices.


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## Karen G (Oct 20, 2020)

In the article was a link to click for ticket info:  https://www.mgmresorts.com/en/entertainment/entertainment-now-open.html  When you open that link, click on a show and it will give the ticket prices.  I just checked on David Copperfield tickets and they look like the same prices as before.


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