# Major leak buckling laminate floor, help!



## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 23, 2010)

I woke up with a headache and went to get some meds. The rug by the sink was sopping wet! My husband had attempted to fix the disposal and it seems the pipe had come apart and leaked tons of water. Our beautiful laminate floor is buckling in some places. Any chance it will heal itself as it dries out? I hate to have to pay for another floor (it's a large area), but we plan to sell the house in a couple years.
Liz


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## 1950bing (Jan 23, 2010)

Bite the bullet. Replace your entire subfloor. The problem is in the subfloor. Use one of the newer types of subfloor that is much better against H2O.
Sorry.


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## Passepartout (Jan 23, 2010)

Pretty hard to tell the long-term effect at this point. You'll need to rig fans get the water dried up. If you are on a crawl space, you need to dry underneath too. Call your insurance carrier, they have experience with these things. Some laminates are pretty much inert, while others are just pressed chipboard and will swell up and disintegrate if wet. In either case, they are usually applied over a foam sheet and while I'm hardly an expert, I'd make a small side wager that you'll have to remove the laminate to dry the subfloor.

The important thing that your insurance carrier will go over with you is the need to dry and disinfect the area to inhibit any possibility of mold growth. 

Good luck. We've had two basement floods, and it ain't pretty. You'll have more than a headache before this is resolved.

Jim Ricks


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## Keitht (Jan 23, 2010)

I agree with Jim, it's much too early to know how extensive the damage will be once it's had an opportunity to dry out.  I don't understand Bing's claim that the sub-floor is the problem.  The problem was a leaking pipe and water from that getting into and under the laminate.


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## ScoopKona (Jan 23, 2010)

The laminate floor cannot be saved. Hopefully the subfloor can (assuming it's not concrete, in which case it will be fine.)

In the future, laminate is a poor choice for kitchens. Laminate is essentially cardboard. When it gets wet, it swells and becomes crumbly. There is no way to fix water damage. Next time, tile it. And use hardibacker to protect the subfloor.


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## Kal (Jan 23, 2010)

My neighbor's 1/4" PVC line to the refrigerator ice maker failed while they were away from the home. The entire kitchen and DR have 3/4" oak hardwood flooring with polyurethane Swedish Finish. Water poured from the leak and flowed across the DR floor into a heating register and into the lower level of the home.

After clean-up they found a considerable amount of cupping on the 3/4" hardwood on a path from the kitchen into the DR. A week later, the installer measured the moisture content and said they must wait until the moisture content returns to acceptable levels before they could initiate repairs. He said they then would have to sand down the floor to remove the cupping then refinish completely. As requested he provided them with a very high repair estimate (for submittal to the insurance company).

When they first installed the PVC line, I suggested they use copper. PVC is easy so they passed on copper. The neighbor said that was a bad decision and the PVC will be replaced with copper.


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## DonM (Jan 23, 2010)

Keitht said:


> I don't understand Bing's claim that the sub-floor is the problem.  The problem was a leaking pipe and water from that getting into and under the laminate.



Are you being Facetious?

The question the OP raised was whether or not her floor can be saved, and Bing is responding that the problem (of saving her flooring) is not the wet laminate- but the wet subfloor under it. He says it must be removed and replaced in order to fix this issue correctly. 

So the current problem is the subfloor- the past problem which has already been addressed was the leaking pipe.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 23, 2010)

Oh dear, I never though of sub floor. This happened once before with a poorly installed dishwasher and we did have to replace the whole floor, but at least due to their mistake the plumber paid for most of it. There are only a few boards buckling and I'm wondering if we can replace those separately. I certainly hope it's not anything to do with the subfloor. As for putting tile, the laminate covers the hall entry, and the big open dining room part also, so it would be very hard to just put tile in the kitchen part because it is all open. We like the look of the laminate and tile is cold to step on barefoot, so I think we'll have to stick to the laminate, although if the kitchen part was separate we could put tile in there and keep the rest laminate. We went from old, crappy looking damaged linoleum to laminate, so we love the look.
Thanks,
Liz


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## e.bram (Jan 24, 2010)

Use teakwood. You will never have a problem.


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## ScoopKona (Jan 24, 2010)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> Oh dear, I never though of sub floor. This happened once before with a poorly installed dishwasher and we did have to replace the whole floor, but at least due to their mistake the plumber paid for most of it. There are only a few boards buckling and I'm wondering if we can replace those separately.



Usually, laminates go together like a jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces are the same shape.

You will need to remove the laminate floor -- AND have replacement pieces for anything that feels wet to the touch. If you can't replace the damaged pieces, just get the laminate up and throw it out. (Or stash it somewhere for an insurance claim. This may be covered. Call your agent.)

Start by removing the molding -- baseboard and t-molding/reducer all around your kitchen floor. Then carefully lift and separate the individual pieces of laminate flooring. If the MDF (that cardboard between the plastic bottom and the printed top) is wet, the piece is trashed. Throw it out. (Nope, you can't dry it. It's going to swell and become crumbly.)

Undo the entire floor. If you're really going to try and save the floor, number the bottom of each piece (row one, plank one; row three, plank two, etc.). Also note the length and position of the ones that were thrown out. This will make it much easier to reassemble. If it were me, I would not try to save the floor. I'm guessing it will be a lost cause. Laminate doesn't cost much, and isn't hard to install.

Remove the underlayment. This can certainly be reused. It's foam rubber. No big deal. Dry it out and you're good to go.

Then dry, dry, dry the subfloor. Crank your heat up to 80F and circulate the air with as many fans as you have -- if you can circulate the air both above and below the subfloor, that's the best scenario. 

Next, buy a moisture meter from Home Depot. Test your subfloor regularly. It's not "dry" until the meter reads 7% or less.

Don't install a floor until the floor and the subfloor are within 3% of each other (and both materials are less than 7% moisture content).


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## Htoo0 (Jan 24, 2010)

This happened to my brother right after we installed the floor in a home he had just purchased. (Except it was the AC drain which clogged.)  We pulled the floor and numbered the pieces. As we could easily match the floor we replaced only the damaged ones using them as a pattern to cut the new ones. It was a concrete sub floor so no problem there and he did wait a couple of weeks to see what would happen. (Wet pieces stayed damaged.) After removing he waited for concrete to dry out. (We re-did the drain to avoid future problems as well.)


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## Stricky (Jan 24, 2010)

This is something covered by your homeowners insurance. It is worth calling your agent and checking on your deductible and the implications of a claim.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks, last time something like this happened we ended up getting paid back by the plumber who improperly worked on the dishwasher. If I remember correctly, though, I had called State Farm and we almost lost our policy because of it. Neither DH or I are up for doing the floor ourselves, so we would have to pay to have it done. Parts are scratched from a chair in the dining area, so I guess if one has to tear it all up, we'll put down new laminate. I'm tempted to let it ride with a throw rug over it until we are ready to sell the house, then I know it will look good to a buyer. I'm calling a floor installer person today to get some information.
Liz


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## Kal (Jan 25, 2010)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> ..If I remember correctly, though, I had called State Farm and we almost lost our policy because of it...
> Liz


 
Isn't that so special about insurance companies.  The minute you file a claim they want to cancel your policy immediately afterwards.

Wonder what real insurance is like!


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## Passepartout (Jan 25, 2010)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> I'm tempted to let it ride with a throw rug over it until we are ready to sell the house, then I know it will look good to a buyer. I'm calling a floor installer person today to get some information.
> Liz



As I mentioned up in post #3 of this thread, when water damage is involved, (you said there was 'tons') the big deal is the potential for mold growth. This happens under the floor where you don't see it, but the home inspector for any future buyer will. The potential cost, both in repair and illness will be far greater if you wait.

IMO you are not doing yourself any favors by not calling your homeowner's insurance carrier.

Sorry.

Jim Ricks


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## pwrshift (Jan 25, 2010)

I had a similar problem last September ... a water pipe between walls on the main floor between the powder room and the den sprung a leak.  I called State Farm and they told me that I had a $500 deductible and that I needed a plumber right away which was not covered by the insurance.  

My cost was about $700 ... they patched the hole in the wall the plumber had to make, replaced the carpet and subfloor where needed, found (after drying) that the hardwood floor in the adjacent hall was warped and had to be replaced, including the non-warped floor in the connecting dining room to assure a match.  The floors were marked from years of use but they replaced them anyways.  They also sent people in to move all our stuff to other rooms while they did the work and after all done they sent clean up people including duct work guys.  I couldn't be more pleased.

I haven't had my next renewal bill yet though. 

A couple of years ago my old fence blew down ... and State Farm came to my rescue, without any premium increase...just the $500 deductible  I've been with them 20 years now and had 3 claims - two of them quite major. 

Brian


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## Born2Travel (Jan 25, 2010)

Kal said:


> Isn't that so special about insurance companies. The minute you file a claim they want to cancel your policy immediately afterwards.
> 
> Wonder what real insurance is like!


 
Isn't that the truth? And... we have homes in Oregon and Florida - we just got a notice that after paying extra for earthquake insurance for many, many years and not filing any claims they have decided to drop the earthquake insurance on our policy in Oregon. They will no longer write it. And in Florida the insurance companies don't want to cover hurricanes... what IS real insurance like? Seems it's only good if there's little chance you'll ever need to use it.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 25, 2010)

Well, maybe a "ton" of water was an exaggeration. The small throw rug was completely soaked and there was water under the sink. The laminate was put on top of an old linoleum floor, plus that foam thing, and it's really generally dry here, so I'm not too worried about mold in the subfloor, but I am going to get on it soon. I ended up sick yesterday and still not quite with it today, so everything is going slow...
Liz


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## Kal (Jan 25, 2010)

Born2Travel said:


> ...we just got a notice that after paying extra for earthquake insurance for many, many years and not filing any claims they have decided to drop the earthquake insurance on our policy in Oregon...


 
My insurance company dropped earthquake coverage last May so I had to go thru the whole routine to replace it. What an eye-opener that is. You need to start early and do your homework. The problem is the nature of coverage and the application of the deductible.

As an example, let's say you have $500K coverage with 10% deductible and have a claim for say $200K. The 10% deductible applies to the face amount of the policy, not the claim. So you would net out $200K less $50K = $150K. Normally one would assume the 10% applies to the amount of the claim which would net you $190K. Try 15% deduct and things get pretty nasty.

The nature of the coverage is also a real treat. Everything is pretty much lumped together. Again for the example $500K coverage, that would have to cover temporary relocation and a huge amount of other stuff.  On the assumption that your home is not the only one damaged, you might be in temporary housing for a year.  Also consider the replacement cost of appliances.  The cost today is NOT what you may have paid 10 years ago.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm guessing the floor is about 15' x 20', at least. So the quote I got today is $1200 to $1600. We were thinking about putting a diagonal line to separate the kitchen part from the hall and other space and doing tile there, as this is the second time we've had to do this due to a water leak.
Liz


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## ScoopKona (Jan 25, 2010)

Liz Wolf-Spada said:


> I'm guessing the floor is about 15' x 20', at least. So the quote I got today is $1200 to $1600. We were thinking about putting a diagonal line to separate the kitchen part from the hall and other space and doing tile there, as this is the second time we've had to do this due to a water leak.
> Liz



I agree with this plan completely. (Tiling the kitchen.)

I like to use a 12x12" piece of black tile -- marble or granite -- cut into three strips. I border rooms with 4x12" strips as a transition. The reason I like to use black is it goes with everything. Of course, your decor will decide how you transition the kitchen and the hallway.


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm thinking maybe a dark slate blue or something as we have white walls, light laminate and soft gray blue carpeting. The area we would carpet is small, not counting the part under the stove and refrigerator, probably about 9'by 6'. Was hoping to get started on estimates, but DH's truck needs $1200 to fix the module sensor for ABS system and 4 wheel drive system. Yikes!
Liz


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## 3kids4me (Jan 27, 2010)

Liz,

We have a beautiful hardwood floor that got soaked a few years ago when we had a storm and our pipes burst.  The floor had buckled and the insurance company was going to replace it.  However, since I loved the floor and the particular wood could not be replaced, I asked them to get a wood expert in to make absolutely sure that it did have to be replaced.  The expert told us to get it dried out thoroughly (using special equipment provided by remediation specialists) and then see how it was in six weeks.  After six weeks, the floor was almost completely back to normal.  We then had it refinished, which completely smoothed out any remaining plane issues.

I will add that the remediation specialists also had to dry the floor from the bottom...the room was over the garage and they had to open up the ceiling and dry it out and reinsulate...but if your floor is on the bottom level then maybe it will be easier to dry depending on what is under it.

The original people who looked at the floor were eager to replace it because they make money.  

Just wanted to share our experience...but you would, I think, need to get the floor professionally dried...even if it looks dry to you on top.

P.S.  I see that you have referred to your floor as "laminate".  Mine was hardwood so maybe none of this will help you!


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 29, 2010)

We are looking into estimates to replace the laminate flooring. The last time this happened we were unable to get anyone to look at the subfloor as the old linoleum covered it on the inside and it was way under a crawl space. We haven't had any mold (and I'm allergic to it, so I'd notice) or other problems, so I'm going to hope that it will dry itself out in our desert climate. My brother pointed out that tile breaks easily if you drop things, and we do. Also the house is small the overall look of light laminate creates a more spacious look.  We aren't doing anything immediately as we need time to do some research and get estimates and my DH's truck just had a $1300 repair to the ABS, 4 wheel drive system. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for all the input.
Liz


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## Liz Wolf-Spada (Jan 30, 2010)

I just looked at how much packing up of books, food, etc. we will have to do to be ready to move everything off the floors. Ugh. This may have to wait until I have time in the summer, unless DH wants to tackle it mostly on his own, as he is retired and I am not.
Liz


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## joelietz (Feb 3, 2010)

That's so true and so annoying isn't it? You have to wonder why people even bother with it? Hey, if you want inexpensive insurance I found a site online that gives free insurance quotes. It's good if you need to comparison shop.



Kal said:


> Isn't that so special about insurance companies.  The minute you file a claim they want to cancel your policy immediately afterwards.
> 
> Wonder what real insurance is like!


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