# Interesting Exchange Data from Advisor



## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

Just got off the phone with my Marriott advisor.  He was helping us get on a waitlist for a couple days in Myrtle Beach in November.  I used the opportunity to pick his brain regarding exchange and points.  Here are a few things others might know but I found interesting:

+ For the most part they are trying to consider points as points.  He said only in really high demand situations does the legacy versus trust thing come into play.  I asked about different inventory buckets and if trading weeks were different and he said, "not really," and that they are trying to keep it all as one inventory.  

+Deposit-first equals request-first.  He said there is a myth that one is better than the other and that he has heard some sales reps give that advice but it is false.  

+ WRT exchange-- 30% done instantaneously over the phone or online, 50% completed in 6-8 months via request, and 20% in last 60 days (which is the only time, he says they look at the week/season you are trading because it is done manually).  He says the TDI is basically marketing and that of course they prefer people to trade high value weeks into them but that the system does not take it into consideration.  He claims it only impacts 2% of that last 20% of exchanges.  That is because...

+  There are three variables in II's system.  (I'm assuming he meant automated.  He said the last 60 days were done manually.)  They are LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST.

This was very interesting to me.  I always reserve a high TDI week assuming it helps us trade.  Well, and because it rents for a higher amount.  He says it will only impact exchanges on rare occasions and the way to go is to buy an inexpensive property to trade.  Hmmmm...


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## rsackett (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> ...He says the TDI is basically marketing and that of course they prefer people to trade high value weeks into them but that the system does not take it into consideration.  He claims it only impacts 2% of that last 20% of exchanges.  That is because...
> 
> +  There are three variables in II's system.  (I'm assuming he meant automated.  He said the last 60 days were done manually.)  They are LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST.
> 
> This was very interesting to me.  I always reserve a high TDI week assuming it helps us trade.  Well, and because it rents for a higher amount.  He says it will only impact exchanges on rare occasions and the way to go is to buy an inexpensive property to trade.  Hmmmm...



If what he says is true than a Silver week will have almost the same trading power as a Platinum week.  I do not think this is true.

Also I have requested a difficult trade at the same time with both my Plat Manor Club (Williamsburg, July 4th) week and my Plat Harbour Point (Hilton Head, week 32) week.  The Manor Club matched first at about a year out.  If what the rep said was the whole story I would have thought that the Harbour Point would have gotten the match because Hilton Head is a higher demand location than Williamsburg.

Ray


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

rsackett said:


> If what he says is true than a Silver week will have almost the same trading power as a Platinum week.  I do not think this is true.
> 
> Also I have requested a difficult trade at the same time with both my Plat Manor Club (Williamsburg, July 4th) week and my Plat Harbour Point (Hilton Head, week 32) week.  The Manor Club matched first at about a year out.  If what the rep said was the whole story I would have thought that the Harbour Point would have gotten the match because Hilton Head is a higher demand location than Williamsburg.
> 
> Ray



Hilton Head might have greater demand but Harbour Point/Sunset Pointe are likely the lowest demand resorts in that group.

Location = Resort


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## rsackett (May 15, 2012)

That makes sense.  When I read Location I thought of city, not the resort itself.

Do you think he was saying that a Silver trades almost as well as a Platinum at the same resort?

Ray


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## Saintsfanfl (May 15, 2012)

rsackett said:


> That makes sense.  When I read Location I thought of city, not the resort itself.
> 
> Do you think he was saying that a Silver trades almost as well as a Platinum at the same resort?
> 
> Ray



"almost as well"? According to the data in the OP the season is ignored and is not a factor. If this were true a mud season trades the same as a new years ski week. Winter on HHI trades the same as same as July 4 week. Highly unlikely is puttin it mildly.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

I'm a pretty good judge of people and this advisor seemed sharp to me.  I went thru this logic with him more than once to be sure to get it right.  He said the ONLY time they see the season or week reserved is when they manually look at (in that final 60 days).  And he repeated that only occurs on 2% of the last 60 day exchanges which he said were only 20% of trades.  He said there are a lot of misconceptions and that II intentionally leads you to believe season matters more because they would like better weeks to make available.  He said with certainty that the "system" only looked at three variables and that season wasn't one of them.  We already knew the view doesn't matter.

Personally, I have always felt the exchange system was intentionally cloaked in mystery.  II has no reason to let us see behind the curtain.  Think about it, maintenance fees don't change with the season.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> I'm a pretty good judge of people and this advisor seemed sharp to me.  I went thru this logic with him more than once to be sure to get it right.  He said the ONLY time they see the season or week reserved is when they manually look at (in that final 60 days).  And he repeated that only occurs on 2% of the last 60 day exchanges which he said were only 20% of trades.  He said there are a lot of misconceptions and that II intentionally leads you to believe season matters more because they would like better weeks to make available.  He said with certainty that the "system" only looked at three variables and that season wasn't one of them.  We already knew the view doesn't matter.
> 
> Personally, I have always felt the exchange system was intentionally cloaked in mystery.  II has no reason to let us see behind the curtain.  Think about it, maintenance fees don't change with the season.



At Ocean Pointe the fees do change with the season. Platinum season pays a higher maintenance fee than Silver although it is a less proportion than the demand difference. What you were told is definitely possible and maybe the reason why people always find "great trades". It is just almost everyone on here seems to advise buying platinum because it "trades much better than silver" and that is what I based my "highly unlikely" statement on. You would think this many Tuggers would have figured out by now that the Season means nothing. I bought silver anyway because it is what I can afford and May and the fall is generally the same weather at Ocean Pointe and we are driving distance. I hope what you are saying is true because I was hoping to trade my studios for other locations.


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## Janette (May 15, 2012)

When making points reservations on line you are given a choice of which points you want to use. I had several choices of the number of legacy or trust points that I wanted to use.


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## tjkahn (May 15, 2012)

Dumb question - WRT exchange stands for what?


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## puckmanfl (May 15, 2012)

good afternoon!!!!

Missing one crucial variable....SIZE

I have posted numerous times on my famous experiment...

Wanted a ski week at Mountainside!!!
Gave II a range from early Feb. to MidMarch...
Deposited my 3 bedroom week 13 GV and my 2 bedroom winter Kolina week
Deposited both on same day...
Was confirmed in 2 weeks...
The 3 bedroom GV got the exchange...
Bigger is Better!!!
This was pre DC 2006!!!!


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## DanR (May 15, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> At Ocean Pointe the fees do change with the season. Platinum season pays a higher maintenance fee than Silver although it is a less proportion than the demand difference. What you were told is definitely possible and maybe the reason why people always find "great trades". It is just almost everyone on here seems to advise buying platinum because it "trades much better than silver" and that is what I based my "highly unlikely" statement on. You would think this many Tuggers would have figured out by now that the Season means nothing. I bought silver anyway because it is what I can afford and May and the fall is generally the same weather at Ocean Pointe and we are driving distance. I hope what you are saying is true because I was hoping to trade my studios for other locations.



I believe that the difference in MFs has to do with property taxes paid to the town.
The actual mantenance fee without taxes should be the same.


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## SueDonJ (May 15, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> At Ocean Pointe the fees do change with the season. Platinum season pays a higher maintenance fee than Silver although it is a less proportion than the demand difference. What you were told is definitely possible and maybe the reason why people always find "great trades". It is just almost everyone on here seems to advise buying platinum because it "trades much better than silver" and that is what I based my "highly unlikely" statement on. You would think this many Tuggers would have figured out by now that the Season means nothing. I bought silver anyway because it is what I can afford and May and the fall is generally the same weather at Ocean Pointe and we are driving distance. I hope what you are saying is true because I was hoping to trade my studios for other locations.





DanR said:


> I believe that the difference in MFs has to do with property taxes paid to the town.
> The actual mantenance fee without taxes should be the same.



At the majority of Marriott resorts the fees do not change with the season.  Like DanR says - where they do, such as the California and Florida resorts, the entire difference is due to real estate taxes and not the Operating and Reserve fees.  At the Florida resorts the Real Estate Taxes are differentiated by season and unit size, and are included in the MF's billed by the resort.  Each same-interval/season owner at a single resort is charged the same Real Estate Tax amount.  At the California resorts the Operating and Reserve Fees are billed by the resorts while the Real Estate Taxes are billed by the state, and each owner can be charged a different Real Estate Tax because it's based on both the purchase price and date.

As far as season not being a factor in II exchange value, it may be true that their system doesn't recognize Marriott's "Plat/Gold/Red/White/Whatever" valuations.  But II's TDI valuations are extremely important to the exchange value, and at most resorts/locations the higher TDI's correlate to the Weeks which fall in the seasons that Marriott designated as higher value in their system.  So it stands to reason, 99% of the time seasonal differential matters a great deal in II's exchange system even if II doesn't recognize Marriott's seasonal categories.

(tj, WRT means "with respect to.")


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## klpca (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> +  There are three variables in II's system.  (I'm assuming he meant automated.  He said the last 60 days were done manually.)  They are LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST.
> 
> This was very interesting to me.  I always reserve a high TDI week assuming it helps us trade.  Well, and because it rents for a higher amount.  He says it will only impact exchanges on rare occasions and the way to go is to buy an inexpensive property to trade.  Hmmmm...



I had an advisor tell me almost the same thing right after I first bought my DSVII week. The previous owner had reserved a mid-Oct week for me and I assumed that it wouldn't trade well. He specifically said that the trading difference between the mid Oct week and Thanksgiving week was so minimal - if any - that it wouldn't make any difference. This year I booked Thanksgiving to use, but so far I haven't noticed any significant increase in the quality of units available when I do dummy bookings. It seems to see just about what it saw last year with the Oct week.


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## tjkahn (May 15, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> (tj, WRT means "with respect to.")



Thanks!  As a relative newbie to TUG, sometimes I have a hard time keeping up with all the acronyms .  Here's another one...DH = Dear Husband?


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> But II's TDI valuations are extremely important to the exchange value, and at most resorts/locations the higher TDI's correlate to the Weeks which fall in the seasons that Marriott designated as higher value in their system.  So it stands to reason, 99% of the time seasonal differential matters a great deal in II's exchange system even if II doesn't recognize Marriott's seasonal categories.



He specifically alluded to TDI as a marketing tool for II to get folks to deposit high demand weeks.  I'm going to get his verbatim words wrong but essentially he said it was misleading.  Sure it shows when demand for areas are high.  He was firm that it did not represent the value of the deposit.  For example, the HHI resorts do not have the same demand yet the TDI is shown as the same for all of them.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 15, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> As far as season not being a factor in II exchange value, it may be true that their system doesn't recognize Marriott's "Plat/Gold/Red/White/Whatever" valuations.  But II's TDI valuations are extremely important to the exchange value, and at most resorts/locations the higher TDI's correlate to the Weeks which fall in the seasons that Marriott designated as higher value in their system.  So it stands to reason, 99% of the time seasonal differential matters a great deal in II's exchange system even if II doesn't recognize Marriott's seasonal categories.."



But according to the OP "There are three variables in II's system...They are LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST". This contradicts your statement "the higher TDI's correlate to the Weeks which fall in the seasons...". Accordingly to the OP your statement is a misconception. Which is true? I have no idea.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

puckmanfl said:


> good afternoon!!!!
> 
> Missing one crucial variable....SIZE
> 
> ...



I think you are correct.  I'll need to circle back to my dude to confirm but I assumed that was under the LOCATION variable, e.g. 2-bedroom Surf Club.  The season and view invisible.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

Does anyone have a written document from II showing how their formula works?  Why not?  Why don't they commit to us how they calculate the value of our deposits?


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## Saintsfanfl (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> For example, the HHI resorts do not have the same demand yet the TDI is shown as the same for all of them.



All the HHI resorts have the same trade value and therefore trade the same?


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## SueDonJ (May 15, 2012)

klpca said:


> I had an advisor tell me almost the same thing right after I first bought my DSVII week. The previous owner had reserved a mid-Oct week for me and I assumed that it wouldn't trade well. He specifically said that the trading difference between the mid Oct week and Thanksgiving week was so minimal - if any - that it wouldn't make any difference. This year I booked Thanksgiving to use, but so far I haven't noticed any significant increase in the quality of units available when I do dummy bookings. It seems to see just about what it saw last year with the Oct week.



Makes sense because the difference in TDI's for mid-October (wks 41-43) and Thanksgiving (wk 46) at DSVII is minimal - 105 v. 125.  All of those are White weeks in the DSVII calendar.  Now if you owned a Red DSVII week and deposited a February or March week, that 150 TDI would have the highest exchange value in II, certainly higher than your White week.  This is a good example of II not recognizing the name Marriott gives to your week's season, but instead their own TDI value and how it correlates to Marriott's seasons in most cases.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Does anyone have a written document from II showing how their formula works?  Why not?  Why don't they commit to us how they calculate the value of our deposits?



I think you are probably on to something. Don't they make the same exchange fee no matter what is being exchanged? Why would they care who trades up or down if they make the same fee? They should only care about how fast they can generate exchanges.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> All the HHI resorts have the same trade value and therefore trade the same?



Demand is one thing.  Trade value (or the value of the deposit) is another.  2-br Grand Ocean ("location" variable) most certainly trades better than 2-br Harbour Point.  Look at points - 4,500 versus 1,225 in mid-summer.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 15, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> Makes sense because the difference in TDI's for mid-October (wks 41-43) and Thanksgiving (wk 46) at DSVII is minimal - 105 v. 125.  All of those are White weeks in the DSVII calendar.  Now if you owned a Red DSVII week and deposited a February or March week, that 150 TDI would have the highest exchange value in II, certainly higher than your White week.  This is a good example of II not recognizing the name Marriott gives to your week's season, but instead their own TDI value and how it correlates to Marriott's seasons in most cases.



How can we be sure TDI is used to assign a "value" to a deposit?


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## Saintsfanfl (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Demand is one thing.  Trade value (or the value of the deposit) is another.  2-br Grand Ocean ("location" variable) most certainly trades better than 2-br Harbour Point.  Look at points - 4,500 versus 1,225 in mid-summer.



Ok I thought you were saying the demand is different but "the TDI is all the same". I was equating "TDI" with trade value. You are saying the various resorts are different locations and therefore are different trade values.


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## slum808 (May 15, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> I think you are probably on to something. Don't they make the same exchange fee no matter what is being exchanged? Why would they care who trades up or down if they make the same fee? *They should only care about how fast they can generate exchanges*.



This is why they will never release the formula. They want you to believe that you need to deposit the best possible week to get what you want. If we were able to dissect the formula, we'd know how to get what we want with the cheapest week we could find. Then who's going to want to trade into that junk week we just deposited.


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## SueDonJ (May 15, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> All the HHI resorts have the same trade value and therefore trade the same?



I would guess yes, if all other things are equal.  The TDI charts for all the Hilton Head resorts are the same, so II considers a Barony 2BR as on par with a Sunset Point 2BR (for example.)  But supply and demand comes into play as well.  Supply is an issue because one resort might have fewer units than another and/or fewer deposits are made by owners, while demand becomes an issue because the newer resorts might be requested more frequently than the older ones and the oceanfront resorts will be requested more frequently than the non-oceanfront.


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## SueDonJ (May 15, 2012)

tjkahn said:


> Thanks!  As a relative newbie to TUG, sometimes I have a hard time keeping up with all the acronyms .  Here's another one...DH = Dear Husband?



On a good day.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Ok I thought you were saying the demand is different but "the TDI is all the same". I was equating "TDI" with trade value. You are saying the various resorts are different locations and therefore are different trade values.



And I would assume, different demands.  

The TDI is an aggregate unit used by II to represent all of HHI, sections of Florida, etc.  Remember, my advisor called it a marketing tool.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> I would guess yes, if all other things are equal.  The TDI charts for all the Hilton Head resorts are the same, so II considers a Barony 2BR as on par with a Sunset Point 2BR (for example.)  But supply and demand comes into play as well.  Supply is an issue because one resort might have fewer units than another and/or fewer deposits are made by owners, while demand becomes an issue because the newer resorts might be requested more frequently than the older ones.



Sue, it is not intuitive that demand for a Shelter Cove unit was the same as an ocean front property like Grande Ocean.  You cannot buy a Memorial Day week at GO for $700 counting closing costs.  TDI is a relativity tool that is geographically based not resort based.  I believe it plays a significant role in the obfuscation.


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## SueDonJ (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Does anyone have a written document from II showing how their formula works?  Why not?  Why don't they commit to us how they calculate the value of our deposits?



There's never been one reported to TUG.  I wouldn't expect them to release their trade secrets.



EKniager said:


> Demand is one thing.  Trade value (or the value of the deposit) is another.  2-br Grand Ocean ("location" variable) most certainly trades better than 2-br Harbour Point.  Look at points - 4,500 versus 1,225 in mid-summer.



I think Marriott used a lot more than just II's metric when they developed their DC Points charts, things like their historical data for cash-stay demand at marriott.com as well as the prices they were able to ask when weeks were sold by MVCI.  But the DC Points charts aren't exactly the best valuation tool, either - look at how low the Aruba resorts have been valued within the DC.  They're undervalued no matter which factors you consider.  (And just like II, I don't think Marriott will ever release their trade secrets to explain things like that, either.)



Saintsfanfl said:


> How can we be sure TDI is used to assign a "value" to a deposit?



One way might be to look at what happened when Starwood changed the II exchange system for its owners.  They used to be able to choose the week to deposit just like we Marriott owners can do, and of course they did what we did and tried to deposit the highest TDI weeks.  Now Starwood chooses the week to be deposited when an owner requests an II exchange, and if you go by TUG posts some of those owners are seeing a definite reduction in trade value - i.e. the resorts/units to which they're able to exchange - since the change was implemented.  They believe it's because the week being deposited for them is one that has an average TDI of their season.


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## csxjohn (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Does anyone have a written document from II showing how their formula works?  Why not?  Why don't they commit to us how they calculate the value of our deposits?



As long as people keep paying their annual fees and keep paying what they ask for trades, why should they tell us anything.  

When people stop joining and don't trade as often, and their income starts to drop they may try to figure out why.

I do know that when trading with VRIety, there is an up-charge for a better season booked and an up-charge for a bigger unit.  No credits when going the other way.  Nothing else is considered.

When using DAE, there is now an up charge for bigger size which just started recently.  Season or anything else doesn't matter.  

I won't use RCI or II in part due to the cost of belonging and the higher charges for trades.  Of course I don't look for the high end resorts and I did not pay tens of thousands for my units so I'm always happy with my trades.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

I was being... sarcastic.  I know they have not shared that information and never explain it even verbally.  I was trying to support the points made by my advisor.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> I think Marriott used a lot more than just II's metric when they developed their DC Points charts, things like their historical data for cash-stay demand at marriott.com as well as the prices they were able to ask when weeks were sold by MVCI.  But the DC Points charts aren't exactly the best valuation tool, either - look at how low the Aruba resorts have been valued within the DC.  They're undervalued no matter which factors you consider.  (And just like II, I don't think Marriott will ever release their trade secrets to explain things like that, either.)



I'm sure they did but my point is still the same... TDI is a relative demand unit used to show demand for a region.  I buy the characterization of it as a marketing tool for II.  

There has not been any definitive data analysis done on trading history to prove the TDI weeks relate directly to the value or trading power of the deposit.  If there is one I apologize, I have not seen it.  Especially cross referencing the three variables defined by my Marriott Advisor.  We do not have access to enough data.


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## SueDonJ (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Sue, it is not intuitive that demand for a Shelter Cove unit was the same as an ocean front property like Grande Ocean.  You cannot buy a Memorial Day week at GO for $700 counting closing costs.  TDI is a relativity tool that is geographically based not resort based.  I believe it plays a significant role in the obfuscation.



I don't know if I'm reading you right but I think we agree here.   

Demand for the different Hilton Head resorts is certainly not equal across all resorts, so of course an oceanfront would have more perceived value in II than a Shelter Cove one.  But what I'm saying is that I don't think II assigns a greater value to the oceanfront one than the harbor one - I think the higher value naturally flows from the relative supply (more high-season oceanfronts are used by owners than deposited) and demand (oceanfront is requested more often than harbor.)

Look at what happens if you request a winter week at Hilton Head.  Most every resort is available no matter what you're depositing for exchange, except for holiday weeks.  Any 2BR can pull any other 2BR, and that wouldn't happen if II based their exchange value on the resorts themselves.

And of course, resale prices for Hilton Head oceanfront are higher than the other HH resorts, but they're driven by supply and demand, too.  I'd guess that if you're looking at winter weeks, Heritage Club is probably on par with the oceanfront ones because of the golf package attached to it.

*************
I just know that what your II rep said about Marriott's seasonal designations and the way they're correlated to II's own TDI values - that they have no bearing on the exchange equation - doesn't follow what's been discussed on TUG for years now.  It would change the whole dynamic of how we've been advised by all the Marriott experts.


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## SueDonJ (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> I was being... sarcastic.  I know they have not shared that information and never explain it even verbally.  I was trying to support the points made by my advisor.



If you know that they've never explained it and never would, why would you think that what your advisor said today is legitimate?


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

“Wide acceptance of an idea is not proof of its validity.” 
― Dan Brown, The Lost Symbol


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

SueDonJ said:


> If you know that they've never explained it and never would, why would you think that what your advisor said today is legitimate?



Never would to us.  I believe Marriott has access to information II members do not.


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## puckmanfl (May 15, 2012)

good evening...

Don't think KFC is givin' us the secret to the special herbs and spices...

Coca cola isn't opening up the safe in Atlanta!!!

Doubt II will be fessin' up anytime soon... especially the part about backroom deals with the exchange manager of the DC club....


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## SueDonJ (May 15, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Never would to us.  I believe Marriott has access to information II members do not.



I'm sure you're right, the Marriott employees who need to know all of the factors related to exchanging will most certainly have access to II information that we don't.  But I don't think that the Marriott VOA's who take our phone calls are on that Need-To-Know list, and I am highly skeptical of any rep, Marriott or II, who decides one day out of the blue to tell only one person during one telephone call something that is contrary to what's been common knowledge for a good, long time.

[deleted]


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

Since it is contrary to widely held beliefs, I am certainly open to data or analysis that disproves the three variable II formula.  

For example, LOL, with the right source, I could be convinced in a conspiracy theory that Marriott is leaking this to get people to buy low demand weeks for trading purposes. 

Anyone have anything solid?


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## tjkahn (May 15, 2012)

As Sue said, it all comes down to supply and demand.  I believe TDI is a marketing tool, and just an *indication* of what II thinks of the week (i.e. how hard or easy it would be to trade into).

Weeks have supply and demand like anything else in the world - and timeshares are no different, they don't violate thousands of years of economic theory and follow the same supply and demand equation as everything else in the economy.  My unit in Tahoe gives me access from Mid December to Mid April.  The TDI's vary from ~105 to a high of 130.  Yet II will give me an AC for ANY week deposited in my season.  Why?  Because they probably get very few Timber Lodge 1BR units during any part of the ski season.  They're trying to match supply with demand the way every business in the world does.

TDI is one piece of a very large puzzle, which we will never solve.  I do believe that TDI comes nowhere close to representing the true trade value.  I was once locking off my unit after making a reservation earlier for the whole thing, and the Marriott rep got on the phone with II and asked the II rep what week she wanted based on a list of available weeks at Timber Lodge.  The II rep picked a week that was not the highest TDI among the group - she obviously looked at what was needed to make an exchange, or what week II was low on.  So the value of a week to II can change from week to week.  TDI seems to me to be offer a very vague prediction of what weeks will be in higher demand relative to the supple of weeks II expects to have.  For any given year, it can fluctuate quite a bit from actual results.

So in summary, I think I mostly agree with the OP...you will get your exchange based on the match being available and your place in line.  I don't think II is looking at the TDI of your week vs. another week in the same season and picking and choosing which requests/deposits to match.  I do think it's possible that they might match a request first over a deposit first if they need the week on the request first.  Sinister, yes, but possible.  Particularly if there's incentive comp involved...


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## puckmanfl (May 15, 2012)

good evening....

Marriott doesn't sell low demand weeks anymore!!! Ebay sells low demand weeks.... 

The Pre DC sales pitch for the doggie weeks was (sorry Perry) buy this bronze summitt watch, lockoff , deposit both halves and snag some great stuff (especially in Flexchange).  Actually, there is quite a bit of merit to it...

I believe Dioxide has traveled everywhere with a 2 bedroom Gold GV week!!!!

My next purchase willbe a cheap 2/3 bedroom plat GV to use as Flexchange trader....


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## MALC9990 (May 15, 2012)

To me TDI is a very, very blunt instrument to guage the demand fr any week at a resort. Remember the TDI value is not particular to a resort but an area or region or is some cases a whole country or even multiple countries. So the TDI for my week at my premier Marriott Resort is shown as the same a that week at a dog of a resort in the same area, region or country that share the same TDI table in II.

However like any blunt instrument, when it is all you have you use it as best you can. It's like, I need to open this can of beans and all I have is a hammer and a screwdriver - I will eventually get the can open but it will be messy.

So to me it still makes sense when reserving a week to deposit, to look at the TDI values and reserve the best I can get in that season. When looking to place a request, I still take the relative difference in TDI values into account BUT I don't see it as being the major determining factor. The BIG factors to me are when I deposit and when I request. Deposit as early as possible and request as far out as possible.

My main trading week is my 3 bed lock-off silver week in Playa Andaluz. This is a winter week in the Costa Del Sol. I generally lock off, deposit and use the 2 bed master suite to do requests at about 16 months out and sit and wait. The lock off I use for manual searches and take what I cand find that appeals. Last year's week - my lock off got me a 2 bed unit in Marbella Beach Club in the winter of 2012 (Late Nov) - same season same TDI as my lock off. The 2 bed master suite is waiting on a request for a may week in Paris I'le de France or a September week in Club Son Antem for 2013. I don't mind which it is and the request has a date range of 5 weeks for each resort that do not overlap. Whichever I get I will be happy to take.

So I kind of take both sides in this debate. i use TDI to decide what to deposit since it can't really harm my request but I don't think it makes a great deal of difference - the quality of the resort is the BIG decider.


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## dioxide45 (May 15, 2012)

GregT did an analysis of an Aruba bulk deposit. You can find some information on that in this thread. This may shed some light on the subject.


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## EKniager (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for the link to Greg's work.  

Unfortunately, as previously assumed there isn't enough data and because this new theory was unknown at the time, the experiment wasn't conducted in a way that provided evidence that contradicts the 3 variable claim.

The search for the truth continues...


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## billymach4 (May 15, 2012)

EKANIGER! This is an excellent revelation!

I for one do support your analysis provided by the adviser... I am assuming you spoke to an II adviser, it was not clear to me if it was Marriott , or II you spoke to. 

Basically in my mind II needs to match up thousands of deposits with the respective requests. On a given day many people lets say 50% jump online and look at the availability. They cherry pick and walk away happy. 

The other 50% are done by advanced request. The bulk of these advanced requests must be done in some automated fashion thru a good old batch processing job. And it would make sense to me that they parse out and match these requests up using "LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST" variables!

There are of course going to be exceptions that must be handled manually, and that leaves the other business rules, and back door deals between the resort system mangers, and the inventory managers at II to hammer out. 

Also speaking from my own personal experience I did at one time own one of those Mud week Bronze seasons at good old Summit Watch. I did that when I was a young timeshare boy to get my timeshare legs.  And yes I can tell you I got some fantastic trades. I also got great trades with my 2br Foxrun week that I gave away to a lucky taker in Ohio on craigslist.

Most folks here know that I am generally skeptical of the marketing bunk that Marriott and II dishes out. This TDI business falls right in line with my philosophy. 

One thing I have not seen in any of the above posts are the Marriott preference. That seems to take precedence in the  "LOCATION (not season), TIME of DEPOSIT, and TIME OF REQUEST". 

Now if I had at least 2 solid weeks pre June 2010, I would have bought in to the DC points. But as of now.... No Dice. I will stick with my weeks and be a happy trader, and home resort vacationer!


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## billymach4 (May 15, 2012)

*As far as trade secrets go....*

There has been some mention of "Why would an adviser divulge this information now? This goes again what we have been lead to believe" Well yes there has been much obfuscation , and intentional white lies, and marketing spin...

However maybe this adviser let his or her guard down for a brief moment and did not realize where this information would be printed. Maybe this adviser is an honest person, and wanted to share some honest truth. Maybe this adviser is a disgruntled employee leaving next week and does not care anymore about trade secrets. Any well experienced employee with a good head for analysis can conclude these facts after a few years, and lunch room education. Maybe it is not such a secret after all. 

I suspect that Ekainger got about 80% of the truth or so called secret! 

And now that the truth is out.... II and Marriott will have to reinvent timeshare exchange and sell us yet another package of timeshare!


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## NWL (May 16, 2012)

tjkahn said:


> As Sue said, it all comes down to supply and demand.  I believe TDI is a marketing tool, and just an *indication* of what II thinks of the week (i.e. how hard or easy it would be to trade into).
> 
> So in summary, I think I mostly agree with the OP...you will get your exchange based on the match being available and your place in line.  I don't think II is looking at the TDI of your week vs. another week in the same season and picking and choosing which requests/deposits to match.  I do think it's possible that they might match a request first over a deposit first if they need the week on the request first.  Sinister, yes, but possible.  Particularly if there's incentive comp involved...



I agree with the supply, demand, availablity theory when you call/request your exchange.  Tiiming is everything.


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## Clark (May 16, 2012)

EKniager said:


> Does anyone have a written document from II showing how their formula works?  Why not?  Why don't they commit to us how they calculate the value of our deposits?



The Marriott sticky thread

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391

shows the only openly explained definition and calculation of trading power that you are likely to find.


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## GregT (May 16, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> GregT did an analysis of an Aruba bulk deposit. You can find some information on that in this thread. This may shed some light on the subject.



I went back to the Aruba experiment and looked at it through EKniager's filter.

There were three 1BR's -- a Platinum Shadow Ridge, a Memorial Day Grande Vista Gold, and a Harbour Lake Week 1 (not sure of the season).

All three weeks saw substantially the same Studio/1BR/2BR Sightings.  All had equal success in Sighting the non-holiday 2BRs, which was a real test of power when comparing to the Studios, and none of them saw the holiday 2BR.  Only another 2BR could see the holiday 2BR.

The only real discrepancy in the three 1BRs Sightings was that Shadow Ridge Platinum and Grande Vista Gold (Holiday) weeks could see a 1BR Thanksgiving week, that the Harbour Lake Week 1 did not.  I had attributed that to the needing a higher powered deposit (holiday Gold or Platinum) however it is possible that II was simply buggy.

This is a limited data set, however, as others have noted.   Week 1 in Orlando still has a 110 TDI, and saw most everything that the others -- missing only the holiday week 1BR.

I recall Perry's observation once that it was a mistake to deposit a week 12 months out from check-in because there were other similar weeks being deposited by other owners -- and trade power of that deposit would weaken because of the competing "supply".   His opinion was to hold your reserved week for a few weeks while the initial supply was absorbed through matches -- and would then deposit his weeks 11 months out for better trade power.

I still think TDI matters -- but just perhaps as a surrogate or proxy rather than something that is actually a component of the II algorithm.  

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting this!

Best,

Greg


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

GregT said:


> I still think TDI matters -- but just perhaps as a surrogate or proxy rather than something that is actually a component of the II algorithm.



That's the thing. TDI is a supply and demand index. Supply and demand has a natural effect on the trading and not a forced effect caused by the "formula". This is why great trades can occur but are not the norm. Any forced limitation on trading up by the formula would only defer the income generated for II. They would have nothing to gain. I think everyone is gradually agreeing on the same thing. Supply and demand indicators obviously matter but very well may not be a part of a limitation in trading as far as the II programming is concerned.


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## Janette (May 16, 2012)

RCI has answered the value question by assigning trading power units to our weeks(TPU). We can combine all our units if we wish to try for a trade that requires a high TPU(Disney, Manhattan Club, etc). I'm not sure I like it, but we are in a one bedroom at Wyndham Bonnet Creek right now for 9 TPU. My older RCI summer HHI resort gets 24 TPU and my Florida(almost hurricane season) gets 19 TPU. We have picked up a couple of good exchanges but still wonder who determines the TPU as it seems to change. RCI is getting more money(combining weeks, more exchanges, etc) so the jury is out on whether this works. I can go to Disney using two of my HHI weeks. The maintenance for two years is still a little less than my Disney maintenance for one year. Gee, little resorts can't pick up big ones. How unfair is that? I did it for 30 years!


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

Janette said:


> RCI has answered the value question by assigning trading power units to our weeks(TPU). We can combine all our units if we wish to try for a trade that requires a high TPU(Disney, Manhattan Club, etc). I'm not sure I like it, but we are in a one bedroom at Wyndham Bonnet Creek right now for 9 TPU. My older RCI summer HHI resort gets 24 TPU and my Florida(almost hurricane season) gets 19 TPU. We have picked up a couple of good exchanges but still wonder who determines the TPU as it seems to change. RCI is getting more money(combining weeks, more exchanges, etc) so the jury is out on whether this works. I can go to Disney using two of my HHI weeks. The maintenance for two years is still a little less than my Disney maintenance for one year. Gee, little resorts can't pick up big ones. How unfair is that? I did it for 30 years!



I think if II did that it would be a big mistake and decrease their revenue. It limits potential trades that can no longer occur. The big attraction to trading is potentially getting a very good deal. It leads to less trades and less income.


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## HenryT (May 16, 2012)

*TDI Does not represent the Resort Value*

As some others have alluded to, TDI has very little to do with a given resort. It represents the demand for the area for a given week. It includes all lodging (hotels, etc.) not just timeshares. So it makes sense that all resorts in a given area will have the same TDI value.

Now whether II takes the season into consideration when assigning a value to a deposit; I think they have to. I thought many Tuggers have done trade tests which showed that the season of their deposits made a difference in what exchanges they were able to see for a given resort. 

I have done that myself. I have done searches on II with 2 different resorts (Marriott Grand Ocean and Marriott Sunset Pointe). With every thing else being equal (same week, same size unit and same location) I was able to see better units with the Grand Ocean unit. Also I have used a Gold week for the Sunset Pointe unit and a Silver week for the Grand Ocean unit and the Grand Ocean came out ahead again. Finally I have been able to see better exchanges with either resort when I was searching with higher season weeks.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

HenryT said:


> As some others have alluded to, TDI has very little to do with a given resort. It represents the demand for the area for a given week. It includes all lodging (hotels, etc.) not just timeshares. So it makes sense that all resorts in a given area will have the same TDI value.
> 
> Now whether II takes the season into consideration when assigning a value to a deposit; I think they have to. I thought many Tuggers have done trade tests which showed that the season of their deposits made a difference in what exchanges they were able to see for a given resort.
> 
> I have done that myself. I have done searches on II with 2 different resorts (Marriott Grand Ocean and Marriott Sunset Pointe). With every thing else being equal (same week, same size unit and same location) I was able to see better units with the Grand Ocean unit. Also I have used a Gold week for the Sunset Pointe unit and a Silver week for the Grand Ocean unit and the Grand Ocean came out ahead again. Finally I have been able to see better exchanges with either resort when I was searching with higher season weeks.



Your last sentence is the only thing being debated in this thread. Everyone agrees the resort matters. We are debating weather the season matters. In order to provide data from a valid test someone needs to attempt a trade from the same resort with two different seasons at the same time and list what was excluded for the lesser season. You say you saw better exchanges with higher season weeks using the same resort but your statement looks like an afterthought on your test.


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## EKniager (May 16, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> TDI is a supply and demand index.



I am not sure why you think it takes supply into consideration at all.  Think about it.  Would February at Aruba Surf Club have had a lower index before all the weeks were sold?  The index would have to fluxuate too much with the addition of new properties in the II portfolio.  

I would stick with one variable -- Demand.  Relative demand likely never changes.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

EKniager said:


> I am not sure why you think it takes supply into consideration at all.  Think about it.  Would February at Aruba Surf Club have had a lower index before all the weeks were sold?  The index would have to fluxuate too much with the addition of new properties in the II portfolio.
> 
> I would stick with one variable -- Demand.  Relative demand likely never changes.



TDI? It absolutely takes supply into consideration. Look at the chart. There are two sides. Availability and Demand. There is a reason why Las Vegas does not reach the higher TDI levels for any week during a year. There is way too much supply. If there was all of a sudden only 5000 rooms in Las Vegas the TDI would instantly go off the chart for every week of the year. If more resorts are built in a certain area it lowers that area's TDI.


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## tjkahn (May 16, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> TDI? It absolutely takes supply into consideration. Look at the chart. There are two sides. Availability and Demand. There is a reason why Las Vegas does not reach the higher TDI levels for any week during a year. There is way too much supply. If there was all of a sudden only 5000 rooms in Las Vegas the TDI would instantly go off the chart for every week of the year. If more resorts are built in a certain area it lowers that area's TDI.



I disagree.  Orlando has max or very high TDI's for many weeks, but you can trade into Orlando any week of the year, likely to a bigger unit.  Vegas doesn't max out probably because it will never have off the chart demand for family vacations.  Grand Chateau has a limited capacity but it is pretty easy to trade into.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

tjkahn said:


> I disagree.  Orlando has max or very high TDI's for many weeks, but you can trade into Orlando any week of the year, likely to a bigger unit.  Vegas doesn't max out probably because it will never have off the chart demand for family vacations.  Grand Chateau has a limited capacity but it is pretty easy to trade into.



Please explain how there can be availability with no supply. Its impossible. It doesn't matter how low demand is, if supply is still lower, there can be no availability. Now if you are saying the TDI chart is a lie and the availability doesn't mean availability then while that is possible it also renders TDI meaningless and of no more value than the number of visitors to a region.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

Also, Vegas actually has more rooms than Orlando but Orlando has more visitors.


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## BocaBoy (May 16, 2012)

Perhaps the following can help:  

We have owned with MVCI since before they switched from RCI to Interval 20+ years ago.  For a long time the II book showed the "seasons" assigned by II to each resort.  They were Red, Yellow, and Green (or something like that).  The II book showed the season assigned to each week at each resort, and that supposedly was the seasonality used for that trading variable.  The seasons did not track the Marriott seasons--in fact, most Marriotts were Red for weeks 1-52, probably because of the desirability of the Marriott resorts.  We owned at Sabal Palms at the time and that was what all the Marriott Orlando resorts were.  A few of the very seasonal Marriott resorts did have two or three seasons--for example, I remember that the first two months of the year at Manor Club was a lower season, for example.  

Perhaps II still uses a similar methodology and the reason the Vacation Adviser said seasons do not matter is because II considers almost all of the Marriotts to be "high season" year round.  I am just speculating but it is based on a bit of history that many TUGGERs may not be aware of.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

BocaBoy said:


> Perhaps the following can help:
> 
> We have owned with MVCI since before they switched from RCI to Interval 20+ years ago.  For a long time the II book showed the "seasons" assigned by II to each resort.  They were Red, Yellow, and Green (or something like that).  The II book showed the season assigned to each week at each resort, and that supposedly was the seasonality used for that trading variable.  The seasons did not track the Marriott seasons--in fact, most Marriotts were Red for weeks 1-52, probably because of the desirability of the Marriott resorts.  We owned at Sabal Palms at the time and that was what all the Marriott Orlando resorts were.  A few of the very seasonal Marriott resorts did have two or three seasons--for example, I remember that the first two months of the year at Manor Club was a lower season, for example.
> 
> Perhaps II still uses a similar methodology and the reason the Vacation Adviser said seasons do not matter is because II considers almost all of the Marriotts to be "high season" year round.  I am just speculating but it is based on a bit of history that many TUGGERs may not be aware of.



That would make sense and explain the "seasons do not matter" debate. What would be a value difference to a Marriott owner may not be enough of a value difference to II from their entire system perspective.


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## tjkahn (May 16, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Please explain how there can be availability with no supply. Its impossible. It doesn't matter how low demand is, if supply is still lower, there can be no availability. Now if you are saying the TDI chart is a lie and the availability doesn't mean availability then while that is possible it also renders TDI meaningless and of no more value than the number of visitors to a region.



Bingo.  TDI is essentially meaningless.  It attempts to show the relative popularity of an area but IMHO it's got nothing to do with how hard or easy it is to trade into an area.  In other words, it's not taking supply into account, just the relative amount of people who want to go there.

Orlando is 130 TDI week 12 and 150 TDI week 13.  I can pull, right now, 2 BR units for either week, at Marriotts, using my studio in Tahoe - no matter what date I put in for my reservation (whether I use a 110 TDI week or a 130 TDI week, doesn't matter).  Lots of people want to go to Orlando, but there is a ton of supply so it's an easy trade.  So your last statement is correct - TDI does not equal availability, or even predicted availability.


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

I completely agree that it is not a factor in trading. What I disagree with is that supply is not a part of the index. Even if it is simply the number of visitors per year and not actually supply vs demand, you still can't have visitors without rooms. Therefore the more rooms, or supply, the greater the number of possible visitors.


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## tjkahn (May 16, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> I completely agree that it is not a factor in trading. What I disagree with is that supply is not a part of the index. Even if it is simply the number of visitors per year and not actually supply vs demand, you still can't have visitors without rooms. Therefore the more rooms, or supply, the greater the number of possible visitors.



I don't think this is what you are saying, so don't take this as a rebuttal to your post, but the existence of rooms doesn't create demand.  If they build a hotel on the South Pole tomorrow, it still won't attract visitors even though the ability to accomodate visitors has increased.  "If you build it, they will come" only works in the movies .


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## GregT (May 16, 2012)

This post reminded me of an old thread from WMOwners I came across -- I'll try to find it if I can, but I'd saved it to my now expansive timeshare folder.   There had been a glitch on II and it posted the grid below briefly.

Here's the II glitch  -- note that the title is mine, not what appeared on the website.  I'm not suggesting anything by this, only passing it along.



> ***** II Trading Power Defined *******
> 
> Red Season: (Highest demand)
> Studio=1 Point
> ...




This is supportive of BocaBoy's three season comments -- and obviously doesn't reference TDI.  A reminder on what II says about TDI (emphasis added):



> “TDI” or “Travel Demand Index” means the seasonal indicators that
> are updated periodically to reflect the cycles of relative weekly demand
> for a specific geographic area. *The TDI is a vacation-planning tool
> offered by II to assist Members in determining which time periods
> ...


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## Beefnot (May 16, 2012)

tjkahn said:


> I don't think this is what you are saying, so don't take this as a rebuttal to your post, but the existence of rooms doesn't create demand.  If they build a hotel on the South Pole tomorrow, it still won't attract visitors even though the ability to accomodate visitors has increased.  "If you build it, they will come" only works in the movies .



Although Saintsfanfl is correct in that the TDI does take into account supply in some way.  It must.  Availability absent of supply is an impossible concept.


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## dioxide45 (May 16, 2012)

Greg, here is a TUG thread on that subject.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51174


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## GregT (May 16, 2012)

dioxide45 said:


> Greg, here is a TUG thread on that subject.
> 
> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51174



Dioxide, thanks for the link -- that explains why I couldn't find it on WMOwners!

Still not conclusive -- even after that thread (5 years ago), our TP experiment from earlier this year and EK's discussion with the agent.

Interesting stuff....thanks again!

Greg


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## billymach4 (May 16, 2012)

GregT said:


> Dioxide, thanks for the link -- that explains why I couldn't find it on WMOwners!
> 
> Still not conclusive -- even after that thread (5 years ago), our TP experiment from earlier this year and EK's discussion with the agent.
> 
> ...



Greg, 

I don't think the collective minds here will ever be able to conclusively reverse engineer the formula. II and Marriott can add in any other condition here. But as I said earlier.... The experience and minds here have about 80% of the logic nailed down. 

I certainly appreciate your collective input!


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## Saintsfanfl (May 16, 2012)

tjkahn said:


> I don't think this is what you are saying, so don't take this as a rebuttal to your post, but the existence of rooms doesn't create demand.  If they build a hotel on the South Pole tomorrow, it still won't attract visitors even though the ability to accomodate visitors has increased.  "If you build it, they will come" only works in the movies .



This made me laugh because even though you make a valid point I cannot help but think of all the pushy presentations and the regretful buyers. I think there obviously has to be at least some desire but "building" it does cause some to come that may not have otherwise considered it an option.


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## EKniager (May 17, 2012)

*"to reflect the cycles of relative weekly demand for a specific geographic area"*


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## Saintsfanfl (May 17, 2012)

EKniager said:


> *"to reflect the cycles of relative weekly demand for a specific geographic area"*



Klamath Falls, Oregon. One of very many locations that are among the least visited "TDI" areas. BUT, this area has a 150 TDI for weeks 25-33! How is that possible when there aren't even very many places to stay? Is it possible that more people want to go to Klamath falls during weeks 25-33 than Las Vegas? Las Vegas has 35 million visitors per year and even during it's slowest week, there are far more visitors than during Klamath Falls busiest week! Klamath falls couldn't even house the visitors from a single large Vegas hotel! The answer is obviously supply versus demand and not demand alone.


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## GregT (May 23, 2012)

All,

Please see II's seasons below -- and compliments (and thanks) to Javanite on the WM board for finding this and sending to me.   Please recall that II has color coded the seasons as Red/Yellow/Green -- providing clues to how II views the desirability of different weeks:


*Found in II 2009 Directory: *

*All Weeks RED (Weeks 1-52):*

Aruba Ocean Club
Aruba Surf Club
BeachPlace Towers
Canyon Villas
Custom House
Cypress Harbour
Desert Springs Villas (I and II)
Frenchman's Cove
Grande Chateau
Grande Vista
Harbour Lake
Imperial Palm Villas
Kauai Beach Club
Ko Olina
Marbella
Maui Ocean Club
Maui Ocean Club -- Lahaina and Napili
Newport Coast Villas
Ocean Pointe
Ocean Palms
Playa Andaluza
Royal Palms
Sabal Palms
Shadow Ridge (and Enclaves)
St. Kitts
Village Ille de France
Villas at Doral
Waiohai



*Horizons by Marriott at Branson*
Red 10-52
Yellow 1-9 

*Grand Residence Club Lake Tahoe
Timber Lodge*
Red 1-14, 23-39, 49-52
Yellow 15-22, 40-48

*Barony Beach Club
SurfWatch
Grand Ocean*
Red 5-48, 51-52
Green 1-4, 49-50

*Club Son Antem*
Red 5-52
Yellow 1-4

*Crystal Shores*
Red 1-35, 40-48, 50-52
Yellow 36-39, 48-49

*Fairway Villas*
Red 13-37, 51-52
Yellow 1-12, 48-50

*Harbour Club at Harbour Town
Harbour Point at Shelter Cove
Heritage Club at Harbour Town
Monarch at Sea Pines
Sunset Pointe at Shelter Cove*
Red 9-48, 51-52
Yellow 5-8
Green 1-4, 49-50

*Legends Edge*
Red 7-48, 51-52
Yellow 1-6, 49-50

*Mai Khao Beach Club*
Red 1-20, 30-34, 39-52
Yellow 21-29, 35-38

*Manor Club*
Red 9-52
Yellow 1-8

*Mountain Valley Lodge*
Red 1-15, 21-38, 47-52
Yellow 16, 39-43, 46
Green 17-20, 44-45

*MountainSide*
Red 1-15, 21-38, 47-42
Yellow 16-20, 39-43, 46
Green 44-45

*OceanWatch*
Red 9-44, 47
Yellow 1, 5-8, 45-46, 48-49, 51-52
Green 2-4, 50

*Phuket*
Red 1-20, 39-52
Yellow 21-38

*StreamSide*
Red 1-15, 21-39, 47-52
Yellow 16, 46
Green 17-20, 40-45

*SummitWatch*
Red 1-15, 21-38, 47-52
Yellow 16-20, 39-43, 46
Green 44-45


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## windje2000 (May 23, 2012)

Interesting and informative post.  

There's clearly a difference between the color coding you posted above, which is resort specific, and the TDI, which is geographic.

Marriott resorts even in overbuilt areas (e.g. Orlando) have the red high demand coding even in lower TDI periods.  Which is another way of saying that the cream rises to the top.

So does that mean that I really don't have to worry that much about the TP of the M weeks I deposit with II? or what?


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## GregT (May 23, 2012)

windje2000 said:


> Interesting and informative post.
> 
> There's clearly a difference between the color coding you posted above, which is resort specific, and the TDI, which is geographic.
> 
> ...



It is an interesting question.  I believe the algorithm for maximum trading power isn't changing much from TUG best practice, although we may think differently about how to utilize TDI:

1) Reserve the holiday week (which presumably has most demand) in the best II season (Red).
2) If no holiday, use the TDI chart as the surrogate for which week will be most in demand (but must be in the highest II season - Red)

This is pretty much unchanged.

I think the new information here is that we weren't really thinking about how the seasons that II ascribes to a week may be the real factor in trade power -- and therefore there may be new opportunities that we didn't see before, especially in Gold Weeks.  

As an example, Weeks 36-39 at Timber Lodge is Interval Red but they all have TDI's less than 100.  Those weeks were probably ignored before, but now that week may have previously unappreciated trade power.   In reality, it may be more Pink than Red, but even so, it's got more juice than we thought.  They are rated Platinum by Marriott, which may be why they were Red from II?

However, interesting with Shadow Ridge (Enclaves) Gold, which are all II red weeks.  Additionally, the Deluxe locks into two 1BRs.  That may be an uber-trader because it's II Red year-round -- and you get two highly powered deposits.  If you can reserve the highest TDI week in the Gold season, that could be a quality deposit.

I still think 3BRs remain the ultimate traders though, perhaps even a Gold 3BR.

Lots to think about here -- interesting stuff.

All the best,

Greg


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## jdunn1 (May 23, 2012)

I think what has changed in II for Marriott owners (probably everyone else too?) is that studios no longer pull prime 2 bedrooms.  Maybe, just maybe a studio at one of the ski weeks in ski season can pull some 2 bedrooms, but my Willowridge studio certainely doesn't.  Last year, even six month ago my Willowridge studio (any summer week) would pull everything my one bedroom would pull in II. Not any more.  The one bedroom side still pulls just as well as ever, but not the studio.

Granted, a summer Willowridge studio still pulls 2 bedroom winter Hilton Head weeks, and even 2 bedrooms in the spring at the non-marriott timeshares in Orlando.  However, it seems that II has put some kind of block on using your Marriott studio to trade into anything larger within the Marriott system for most resorts/weeks.

Someone with a ski week at Timberlodge chimed into one of these threads to say how her studio was still pulling 2 bedrooms at the Marriots in Orlando for this coming Spring, but my Willowridge 4th of July studio isn't.


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## taffy19 (May 23, 2012)

GregT said:


> All,
> 
> Please see II's seasons below -- and compliments (and thanks) to Javanite on the WM board for finding this and sending to me. Please recall that II has color coded the seasons as Red/Yellow/Green -- providing clues to how II views the desirability of different weeks:
> 
> ...


I posted some pictures yesterday but here they are again but not so large. The clearer or larger pictures are here and the next 3 pictures.






Central Florida






West U.S.A.






Midwest U.S.A.






Marriott's Sabal Palms

This resort was referred to in this thread so here is an example.
　
There are no red, yellow and green color tabs on this page  like in the II guide of 2004 - 2005.

The guides have the Marriott Vacation Club Logo on the front cover and a picture of one of their resorts. Could it be different for independent resort guides or from other developers?


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## EKniager (May 24, 2012)

Saintsfanfl said:


> Klamath Falls, Oregon. One of very many locations that are among the least visited "TDI" areas. BUT, this area has a 150 TDI for weeks 25-33! How is that possible when there aren't even very many places to stay? Is it possible that more people want to go to Klamath falls during weeks 25-33 than Las Vegas? Las Vegas has 35 million visitors per year and even during it's slowest week, there are far more visitors than during Klamath Falls busiest week! Klamath falls couldn't even house the visitors from a single large Vegas hotel! The answer is obviously supply versus demand and not demand alone.



I was going to comment earlier about you not putting any weight on the word "*relative*" in the II statement.  If you go to iconnections pictures you will read another II explanation which should help clarify TDI for you.  It says not to compare against other locations.  The TDI is "relative only to other weeks in the same vacation area."  Oregon and Nevada are in different zones.  

If you take average demand within an area and then divide all the demand numbers by the average you can create an index, a relative index, that would have weeks at 150 because they would be significantly higher demand... relative to the average of that specific collection of destinations.

I am assuming they are using the frequency or number of requests for a specific week (within the area) to determine demand.  Each week has a number of requests and could be plotted on a chart like the TDI.  Dividing by the average helps set the scale units into relative terms.


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