# Going to U.S. to buy a car



## X-ring (Jun 24, 2006)

For many makes of new cars, the price differential between Canada and the U.S. does not reflect the recent strength of the loonie to the point where a car may cost 25% or more in Canada. So, I'm considering going to the U.S. to buy one.

In the case of the make I'm considering, there's more than the base cost involved - U.S. consumers are provided with much more flexibility. For instance, wood trim is a no cost option in the U.S. for the car I'm after while in Canada you need to pay $585 *AND* need to choose the $2400 leather option! 

Anyone have experience buying a new car in the U.S.?


----------



## mamiecarter (Jun 24, 2006)

try Consumer Reports. They have the best advice about buying a car.Also go on line and look. Call ahead and work out a deal.


----------



## Dori (Jun 24, 2006)

Also check the warranty clauses.  I have heard that in some instances, manufacturers' warranties are null and void if the vehicle is purchased out of country. In other cases you would have to go back to the U.S. for maintenance issues. Just recently I read an  interesting article about this very same scenario. I think that in last weekend's Toronto Star there was an article about how to purchase a vehicle in the U.S.

Dori


----------



## Steel5Rings (Jun 25, 2006)

mamiecarter said:
			
		

> try Consumer Reports. They have the best advice about buying a car.Also go on line and look. Call ahead and work out a deal.



Consumer Reports is a fraud.  CR bases their ratings on reader returned responses.  It is not a truely objective and scientfic report of reliabilty.

I would suggest you use a number of resources, CR, MSN Auto, EDMUNDS and KBB.COM.  Once you narrow it down to 4 or 5 choices, go take a test drive before you come south.

I can't tell you how much it drives me nuts that people think CR is the Bible of car driving.  CR routinely rates European cars very high even though in general Euro cars have lower reliability than US and Asian makes.....why then does CR do this....because and unusaully high number of CR readers live in coastal states where Euro cars are driven and Euro cars are more within the income level of CR subscribers.


----------



## Lizyyz (Jun 25, 2006)

The June 17 issue of the Toronto Star Wheels section (www.thestar.com) had an article on this and even an article on the buying process.  I tried to paste the link here but didn't work.  I can PM you the link if you want.

Liz


----------



## JillChang (Jun 25, 2006)

I looked into buying a car from US as well a couple of month ago.  I was looking into Scion which is not yet available widely in Canada.

There is a standard procedure for this and apparently is done a lot.  There is a fee you pay, around $900 I think and there is a way around the warranty issue.  I lost the link to the process and can't remember how I got it, but I suggest you post this question on http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9 I am sure someone there will be able to help you out?


----------



## ZCar (Jun 25, 2006)

Steel5Rings,
Finally, someone agrees with me concerning Consumer Reports. 
What is an "electrical problem?" Burned out bulb or did the car burn up?
We've had some reallygood cars that they have black dotted. Never knew why, really. CR is pretty good with some things, but cars I have always questioned.

And as with many magazines, they do what I feel is a small rip-off. "Free Issue" ... but only if one cancels. Let subscription continue and one pays full price for a set no. of issues.

But back to Canadians buying U.S. cars. Do you have emission problems to overcome? In California, it's difficult to bring in a new, non-CA certified car.
Are there additional taxes the Government wants to recover from a non-Canadian purchase? CA collects the CA "Use Tax" or differential if paid in another state. One time, they tried to charge $300 "smog charge" for any out-of-state car to be registered, but the courts tossed it. Then they tried to keep the monies already collected with this illegal scheme.


----------



## OnMedic (Jun 26, 2006)

Keep in mind that you should be looking at a North American made vehicle unless you are prepared to pay the duties. (ie. German is in the 8-9% range I think... just going from memory)

Cheers


----------



## X-ring (Jun 27, 2006)

Thanks for your feedback folks, I'm still pursuing this. 

The more I learn the more I'm bummed by some Canadian practises. For instance where the U.S. dealer wants $695 as a 'destination charge', the Canadian dealer wants 

- $1,895 for dealer prep
- a $250 'Admin' charge
- a $75 fuel tax charge (perhaps unavoidable)
- a $199 theft registration charge (turns out to be optional, if you ask)
- and a $$ ?? lien registration charge (if buying on credit).

There is no duty on cars made in U.S. or Mexico but there is a 6.1% duty on cars made elsewhere for the U.S. market.

Liz, please PM with the link. TIA


----------



## BondGuy (Jun 29, 2006)

*Make sure it is apples to apples.*

Certain makes/models/trim lines can be configured differently in Canada versus US.

As just one example, a Toyota Sienna 2006 LE FWD 7 passenger comes with Dual Sliding Rear Doors as standard equipment.

In the US, the Sienna LE 7 passenger, with Package #1, only includes a Passenger-Side Power Sliding Door.

In Canada the LE doesn't really have any options, while in the US the option packages range from $630 to $4810.

Perhaps these differences can be managed with different options, but bear in mind that a particular model may have different equipment on either side of the border.


----------



## X-ring (Jun 29, 2006)

*I've taken the plunge*

and ordered my car from a dealer in the U.S.  I'll be picking it up when I visit my sister in July.

Even after including 6.1%  duty because of manufacture in Germany, I will be getting exactly the car I had in mind and saving a total of C$ 8,606!

This saving will easily cover our flights to Rome and Mediterranean cruise in October-November.


----------



## X-ring (Jun 30, 2006)

*Re: Make sure it is apples to apples.*



			
				BondGuy said:
			
		

> bear in mind that a particular model may have different equipment on either side of the border.



Quite right, and some differences can be very subtle. In my case

- the US model comes with power sunroof as standard; here it's a $1500 option

- the CDN model has fold-down 60/40 rear seats and auto-dimming interior mirror as standard; the US model has the fold-down seats as a $500 option and the self-dimming mirror available only through a $2100 package.

I'll take the free sunroof and manually flick the mirror myself at dusk, thank you!


----------



## Dori (Jun 30, 2006)

Way to go, X-ring!  We fell in love with the Scion while we were in Florida, but they are very hard to find here in Canada.  I think there is a dealer in London, but I'm not sure. 
This is something that we may check into.  Thanks for keeping us posted.

Happy driving!

Dori


----------



## X-ring (Jun 30, 2006)

Dori said:
			
		

> This is something that we may check into.



Keep me in mind if and when you do. By the time I'm finished, I'll have the complete step-by-step process documented which you may find useeful.


----------



## travel bug (Jul 1, 2006)

*Re: Going to U.S. to buy a USED car*

The thread so far is based on buying a new car.  We are flying down to California shortly and my husband is looking at buying a used Lexus down there and driving it up.  I was hoping that a fellow Canadian would be able to share some information regarding what we would need to do to make this happen?  Thanks...


----------



## X-ring (Jul 1, 2006)

*Re: Going to U.S. to buy a USED car*



			
				travel bug said:
			
		

> The thread so far is based on buying a new car. ... and my husband is looking at buying a used Lexus down there and driving it up.  I was hoping that a fellow Canadian would be able to share some information regarding what we would need to do to make this happen?  Thanks...



The process for a used car is no different - the info at the Registrar of Imported Vehicles's (RIV) web site is very comprehensive. 

http://www.riv.ca


----------



## travel bug (Jul 3, 2006)

Thanks you - we'll check out the link you attached.


----------



## moonstone (Jul 3, 2006)

Not wanting to burst anyone's bubble but please keep in mind that any Canadian Auto Dealer can/will loose their license if they knowingly sell any car to a non-Canadian resident (ie; an American) and visa versa. When we were in Ft.Lauderdale in Dec.'04  we needed some routine maintenance work done on our Hyundai. (I think the dealership was called Rick Case Hyundai). DH was amazed at how much cheaper all the models were down there and while talking to a salesman found out that they have the same rule there as our dealerships have up here -in other words they would not sell us (Canadians) a new car. There may be ways of getting around this (such as registering the car in a family member's name who lives there) but sounds like it might be a PIA -although if the price difference is a lot it may be worth it. 
~Diane


----------



## X-ring (Jul 21, 2006)

moonstone said:
			
		

> Not wanting to burst anyone's bubble



Well my bubble is still intact though every dealer except one, has said they can't sell a new car to a Canadian due to their franchise agreement with the manufacturer. An acquaintance who bought a Subaru said U.S. Subaru dealers don't seem to have that constraint.  

I have been very upfront with my dealer (not Subaru) - I even insisted on including the statement "Dealer to provide temporary registration and tags so purchaser can drive the car to Canada" to make sure that there cannot be any misunderstanding about who I am (Canadian citizen and resident) and what I intend to do with the car (drive it home).

The car with my specs is in production at the factory. I expect to take possession mid-August and will provide an update at that time.


----------



## lbertera (Jul 22, 2006)

We live in the US and the last car we bought we went to Canada to buy; with the exchange rate we saved two or three thousand.  The car we bought was not a US product but german so maybe that was the reason.


----------



## merc (Jul 27, 2006)

Any restrictions on whom a dealer can sell to are not matters of licence or law, but of franchise restrictions.  So each company has its own deal.


----------



## RonaldCol (Aug 1, 2006)

Here is something to ponder. A situation similar to what the original poster inquired about, e.g. buying a US car and taking it into Canada for permanent use, occured about five or six years ago, except in the reverse order.

The Canadian currency was very low compared to the US dollar. Americans who lived in upper Michigan found they could go to Canada and buy Lincoln Continentals in Canada and take them back to the US permanently for use. The currency spread was so wide they could save easily $7,000. 

After a lot of Canadian manufactured cars started showing up at US dealers for maintenance and repairs there was a big stink by Ford who claimed the warranties weren't valid since the cars were Canadian cars. I guess depending on how adamant an owner of a Canadian car was, one could get service from a US dealer. I suspect the more expensive warranty items were disallowed. One solution to the problem suggested by buyers back then was to buy warranties from third party sellers to cover the expensive problems.


----------



## barto (Aug 4, 2006)

*buying used US car, bringing into Canada*

We did this about 1.5 years ago - found a car we knew we liked (had test-driven a similar model here but couldn't afford it), had someone test-drive it for us, and had it shipped to our city.  We did the driving around to clear it through customs, etc., and are quite happy with the deal.  Probably saved $5-$7K doing it this way, maybe a little more.

The RIV link is a great place to start - make sure the make/model you want is allowed to be brought into Canada, and what (if any) modifications are needed to bring it in line with Canadian standards.  In our case  we needed a child seat tether anchor dealie ($200) and daytime running lights ($100) to get the car approved to stay in the country.

I'd be happy to answer other questions - feel free to PM or e-mail me!

Bart
barto@nerdshack.com


----------



## X-ring (Aug 22, 2006)

*The Bimmer has landed!*

Crossed the border with my new car yesterday - total savings was over $7,600 even *after* factoring currency conversion, $209 RIV fee, 6.1% duty, excise tax, GST and PST.

The only complication was US Customs. The web site of my selected port to export stated that it offered "a full range of services" and was open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. As required, I got my document to the border 72 hours in advance of presenting the vehicle for export.  

What was not stated was that the U.S. export control people work only 9-5, Monday-Friday. Combined with mail being received at a central mail room that screens and delivers to each section once a day, this meant that my document delivered by Friday noon did not reach the export control people until Monday morning.

So when I showed up Monday noon (after the mandatory 72 hours) I was told to come back two days later on Wednesday.  Some diplomatic negotiating and invocation of a family emergency (true) convinced the officer to relent and he processed my form immediately. 

This singular and simple process (verifying and stamping my ownership document) took him 5 minutes yet he had been prepared to have us waste 2 days waiting around because of "rules"!  What a crock!!!

Fortunately things then went like clockwork at Canadian Customs (who perform 6-8 tasks and require 0 hours of lead time) and we were soon on our way home.

Yes, it was definately worth it!


----------



## taffy19 (Aug 23, 2006)

Congratulations with your new car and it certainly was worth it.  Now you can start looking forward to your vacation that you have planned.   
_This saving will easily cover our flights to Rome and Mediterranean cruise in October-November. _​


----------



## CarlK (Aug 23, 2006)

Well done!  At one time I was naive enough to think that free trade would eliminate most of the duties and hassles you encountered.  Enjoy, and if you want me to look after it while you are away, just let me know.

Carl


----------



## martinus_scriblerus (Aug 26, 2006)

*Some advice for those buying in the USA*

I've bought 5 cars and trucks there over the past number of years, and while I am not an expert, I have just imported a new Dodge Pickup so I can give you a pretty decent run down of what needs to be done.

The advice to check out the RIV (Registrar of Imported Vehicles) website (http://www.riv.ca) is crucial. There for instance, the person who wanted to buy a Scion would find out that Scion's are not allowed to be imported into Canada. Similarly, if you want to buy a Miata, for instance, some  model years may require extensive bumper modifications to be allowed to be plated in Canada.

Each vehicle will have a different required modifications list. Call RIV in advance to verify exactly what will need to be done. Most of the time, the modifications will be the installation of daytime running lights, speedometer markings (metric), child seat tether anchors and other simple things. Some cars will require extensive modifications, such that their importation will be too expensive or too much hassle.

There are some significant exceptions: vehicles 15 years of age or older (some commercial vehicles excepted) are exempt from the registrar's program. I bought a 1964 Dodge and a 1973 Chrysler that way. You just pay air conditioning tax ($100 if so equipped), and g.s.t when you import. Note that Canada Customs is not stupid and should you decide to play a fast one about how much you paid for a classic vehicle you will probably get caught. Carefully document what you paid, including copies of advertisements of the car you bought, the eBay listing if that was where you located a vehicle, etc. Customs will refer to a guide to verify that the price paid was within a reasonable range. Your 1968 Hemi Charger that you say you bought for $20,000 would more likely be appraised at $100,000 or more. So be careful here, and play by the rules.

I have also bought a 1991 Lincoln, a 1999 Dodge Ram, and a new 2006 Dodge Ram. Each vehicle when purchased by me was less than 15 years old, and therefore subject to the registrar's program.

Since most interest will be in the importation of a new vehicle, let me describe that process, which, incidentally, I just completed on Thursday.

First of all, most dealers in the states are oblivious about selling to Canadians. Heck, Americans want to sell anything to anyone (a good attitude, in my opinion). Once they look into it, some difficulties present themselves. First of all, it is tricky to get dealers, once they figure out that selling to a Canadian isn't easy, to sell to you. Franchise agreements, warranty concerns, pain in the ass factors and so on. The way to solve this is to use an American nominee. In my case, I had my cousin buy the vehicle. Once he obtained the title, I picked the vehicle up. 

Let me take a diversion here into the world of sales tax. AS TUGGER's we (many of us anyway) are trying to pay as little as possible for whatever we buy. Here's a trick for you. Depending on the state in which you purchase the vehicle you will have to pay sales tax. In my case, I bought a truck in Nevada (even though it is a LONG way from London, Ontario). Sales tax in Nevada varies by county (can you believe this?), but in the Vegas area sales tax is 7.75%. My cousin lives in Oregon where there is NO sales tax. Because the vehicle was not being titled in the state of Nevada NO sales tax was paid by me.

I know not everyone will be able to have a nominee in Oregon. I did do some research a number of years ago and my conclusion at that time was that even though a car was being exported there was no way for my to get that sales tax back (I cannot remember whether this was for all of the USA or just Michigan, which is only 60 miles from where I live). This may have changed so you will need to research this further. 

Some quick research has shown me that Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon do not have sales tax. If you can't find a nominee who lives in those states, you might find a dealer who will sell to you directly from those states.

You will also pay G.S.T.. and P.S.T. on what you paid in the states (including the US tax), so if you avoid paying, for instance, $2,000 in US tax, you avoid a further $280 (in Ontario) in G.S.T.. and P.S.T.

Back to the main item. How to import.

So you've found your car and figured out how a dealer will sell to you. Before you can bring it back to Canada you will need to get the title to the vehicle. In Ontario where we live we have "registrations", or "ownerships". In the USA, they have titles. My wife (who is a lawyer) informs me that in the USA they do not have a Personal Property Security Act (PPSA) like we have in Canada, hence you do not get the title to a vehicle unless you own it free and clear (in Ontario you get the ownership immediately, whether or not you own the car free and clear). The long and short of this is once you've paid for a new vehicle in the states, it takes FOREVER to get the title. In Ontario it takes 5-10 minutes. My purchase in Nevada took over 6 WEEKS to get the title. I cannot speak for other states, but I suspect it takes an equally long period of time.

Once you have the title, you will need to send a copy of the title at least 72 hours in advance to a "port" which processed the export of vehicles from the USA to Canada. DO NOT FAIL TO DO THIS. I just faxed a copy of the title to the US customs in Detroit, Michigan, and showed up after the 72 hours had passed. They process the title and stamp it that the vehicle is being exported. If you fail to do this, it is a real crap shoot whether or not Canada Customs will turn you back for not doing this properly. If you show up without the title having been stamped and get turned back, you may be fined $500 for "failing to export". As the process is simple, just follow the procedure listed above. You can get the link for US Customs from the RIV website.

I read the comments of X-ring about US customs having been open only 9 to 5. This varies by location. The cargo facility in Detroit is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. So the moral of the story here is to check in advance.

Once you get back into Canada, when you declare your purchase to Canada Customs, you will be charged air conditioner tax ($100) if so equipped and g.s.t. You will be given a "Form 1" and an envelope with which to make payment to RIV.

What you want to do instead of using the envelope and mailing off a payment to RIV is to go to RIV's website and just pay by credit card. This speeds up the process. You will need to then fax a copy of the Form 1 to the RIV (marked attn: data entry) and the day following you can phone and ask them to e-mail or fax the "form 2". The form 2 contains the list of modifications that you must do to meet Canadian standards. You can get anyone to perform these modifications, but Canadian Tire has the exclusive contract to verify that the modifications have been made and that the vehicle meets the standards. More about the fees later.

You will also have to have the vehicle safety checked and emissions tested (In Ontario anyway, and while I don't know about the other provinces I expect you will have some hoop to jump through).

You will also have to prove that there are no Manufacturer recalls on the vehicle. My suggestion is to get this letter from the US dealer, on their letterhead. Otherwise you will need to go to a Canadian dealer, cap in hand, to ask a favour of them about a new car you bought elsewhere.

So once all that is done, you can register the car in Canada, pay p.s.t. (so take the Canada Customs form that shows what value they used to calculate the g.s.t.), put on a license and away you go.

Finally (whew, this is a long post), here are the numbers.

I bought a 2006 Dodge Ram 1500 quad cab work group special. It was advertised on TV when I was in Vegas at $16,488. A trip to the dealer revealed that you had to have "lease loyalty" to get that price. No lease loyalty and the price was about $2000 higher. Then you have to finance with Chrysler. Well obviously you have to pay cash or you can't get the title. You get to PAY MORE if you pay cash. I paid $19,000 US, or at the time, about $21,600 Canadian.  I knew what these trucks sold for in Canada (list price including freight and all the other stuff between $31,000 and $32,000). So how much will you get off the invoice? I checked when Chrysler has their employee pricing plan for everyone, and the price was $28,000 or $29,000. At $28,000 as a reasonable guess, I saved $6,500 on the truck and about $1,000 on the difference in sales tax, for a total of $7,500.

Now the deductions:

My son and I flew to Las Vegas and drove it home. Including a "mini holiday" and"road trip" we spent about $1,700. I could have had the vehicle shipped to Detroit for about $1,000.

RIV fee: $207.00
Canadian Tire: $180.00 for inspection and daytime running light installation
Dodge Dealer: $130 for safety inspection and emissions test

So counting my holiday as an expense I saved about $5,300. Had I just shipped it, I would have saved about $6,000. 

A few more pointers:

North American built cars come into Canada duty free. As other people have pointed out, there is duty on the other vehicles. Call Canada Customs to verify the rate for your car in question.

If you buy a truck you may have to weigh it to register it. You can weigh a vehicle at most truck stops (like Flying J).

It is tricky to buy in Michigan because it seems all cars sold there have good prices for auto workers and nothing good for anyone else. I have tried to buy in Michigan because it would have been a lot easier, but have never been able to do so.

Because the vehicle I bought was originally "sold" to someone else (my cousin in Oregon) I suspect I will have no warranty issues. This is not cast in stone. If I were worried about it, I'd hedge my bets and use some of my savings to buy a third party warranty. I prefer to self insure, in the event that any warranty claim is denied.

I think that's about it. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.

Dave


----------



## X-ring (Aug 28, 2006)

martinus_scriblerus said:
			
		

> I have just imported a new Dodge Pickup so I can give you a pretty decent run down of what needs to be done.



That's a great and useful summary Dave!

My experience was slightly different in that I bought directly from the dealer. This meant that instead of waiting 6 weeks for a title document, the dealer signed over a Certificate of Origin which the dealer receives from the manufacturer. My complete transaction including all documentation with the dealer took 1 hour.  US Customs fully accepts this document as a proxy for a title.

At Canada Customs, they collected the RIV fee and faxed the Form 1 to RIV for me so no action was required on my part. I am waiting for the Form 2 to arrive so I can go to provincial licensing bureau (after visiting Canadian Tire of course!). 

Now since the vehicle was never titled by the dealer and would make it a "used" car, Ontario considers the car to be new and it does not require safety or emissions testing.

As far as warranty is concerned, the car is fully warranted by the US distributor and will be honoured anywhere in the US, irrespective of who owns it. So if need be, I will need to drop down into the US for warranty work should it be required - as I don't live that far from the US, it was a calculated risk that I was willing to take for the significant savings on the purchase.


----------



## X-ring (Aug 29, 2006)

martinus_scriblerus said:
			
		

> Some quick research has shown me that Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon do not have sales tax. If you can't find a nominee who lives in those states, you might find a dealer who will sell to you directly from those states.



Even a nominee living in one of these states can have unexpected wrinkles.

My sister lives in Delaware so I started with Delaware dealers as they have no state sales tax. But, they couldn't sell to a Canadian. I tried a dealer just across the border in Pennsylvania and they were willing to sell to me. When selling a car that will be titled elsewhere, they do not collect PA sales tax. 

We had reached a deal when they backed out at the last minute because they discovered that their franchise agreement forbade it. They suggested that it could be sold to my sister who could then resell it to me in 6 months.

I gave this some consideration and dug through the Delaware government web site only to learn that *while Delaware itself has no sales tax, if you buy a car elsewhere and title it in Delaware, you need to pay a 2.5% fee!*  Not a deal breaker in itself but it sure adds to the cost, so I kept on looking and was lucky enough to end up buying directly in a state where they "Live free or die", and so have no sales tax.


----------



## pwrshift (Sep 9, 2006)

What's the latest scoop on the car purchase?

Brian


----------



## skulipeg (Sep 11, 2006)

We purchased a 2006 Subaru Legacy Wagon SE at the end of July.  We had fully researched importing the vehicle beforehand, and did not encounter any problems whatsoever.  After the dust settled, factoring in all our travel expenses, the RIV cost, and temporary vehicle insurance, we saved well over $9,000 Canadian.  On top of that, the vehicle we purchased, which is exactly what we wanted, was not even available here in Canada.

Since experiences vary among different border crossings in Canada, if anyone in Manitoba has any questions, feel free to drop me an email.


----------

