# Wyndham club access points vs regular W. pts with deed ..



## lkstan (Jan 30, 2011)

Is there any advantage/disadvantage (pros/cons) of buying the Wyndham club access points vs buying points with a deeded property.    

Maint fees seem to be a little less, but not sure this is really valid or even significant.  would appear that you then have the 13 mo. advance resv. at about 20 resorts rather than one.

I understand that there is no deed with this type of purchase, just a contract to give you a "share" or right to use.

I would assume other item are similiar in making the purchase, esstoppel letter, xfer, etc.    it appears there is a closing company involved but I am not sure or if just a xfer is needed.


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## vacationhopeful (Jan 31, 2011)

You only have ARP for the deeds that the Vacation Club owns ... it might be only 3 units for the best 4 weeks of the year. As ARP to one resort, you just have to fight the phone system to get your desired week.


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## rrlongwell (Jul 11, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> You only have ARP for the deeds that the Vacation Club owns ... it might be only 3 units for the best 4 weeks of the year. As ARP to one resort, you just have to fight the phone system to get your desired week.



Moving to top of list to respond to another question pertaining to Club Wyndham Access.


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## cbn (Dec 18, 2011)

*Wyndham Access Points*

I am interested in your question and I am planning on buying into the Wyndham points program  via resale. I would like to use the points primarily for Wyndham Palm Aire in January. Am I better off purchasing  and using  Wyndham Access Points, Wyndham Plus Points from any resort with a low maintainance, or having points with Palm Aire as our home resort so we can definitely have plenty of APR inventory. I like Acccess points in theory and Palm Aire is part of the Access inventory but I would like to learn from someone with Access experience or from anyone familiar with reserving Palm Aire in January.


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## rrlongwell (Dec 18, 2011)

cbn said:


> I am interested in your question and I am planning on buying into the Wyndham points program  via resale. I would like to use the points primarily for Wyndham Palm Aire in January. Am I better off purchasing  and using  Wyndham Access Points, Wyndham Plus Points from any resort with a low maintainance, or having points with Palm Aire as our home resort so we can definitely have plenty of APR inventory. I like Acccess points in theory and Palm Aire is part of the Access inventory but I would like to learn from someone with Access experience or from anyone familiar with reserving Palm Aire in January.



If you are interested in a specific week at a given location, you might want to consider a fixed week contract, if they exist there.  You probably can dodge point inflation that way.  Flip a coin on which is better, Club Wynhdam Plus or Club Wynhdam Access.  If you are thinking of buying off of E-Bay, you may want to make sure of the key details of what you are buying.  For example, one of the re-sellers offers a Club Wyndham Access as a deeded property.  He provided a document with the Wyndham Logo and Heading.  Wyndham denies they use this document and indicated that it was not theirs.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 18, 2011)

rrlongwell said:


> If you are interested in a specific week at a given location, you might want to consider a fixed week contract.  You probably can dodge point inflation that way.



Point inflation???? That happens only at NEW resorts where a 1bdr might cost in PRIME Season at an old resort only 105K points and a NEW RESORT in PRIME Season a 1bdr is 189K points.

As for FIXED WEEKS at Palm Aire - yes, they can be found. But you are locked into THAT unit and weeks unless you pay for an RCI membership and exchange. Traditionally, Wyndham Fixed weeks do not have a high trading (TPU) value compared to MFs. 

As for January in Palm Aire, you could get the entire month in Wyndham points at the 10 month mark. The Snowbird crowd prefers the beach locations, but January units can be even had in those beach resorts at the 10 month out mark.


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## ronparise (Dec 18, 2011)

re arp at Florida beach resorts I yield to Linda...she knows. 

So for a vacation at these resorts it would seem any Wyndham points will do. There are lots that will give you a lower maintenance fee than Club Wyndham Access, but CWA will give you some insulation against increasing maintenance fees and special assessments, as you pay a blended rate, based on an average across their entire ownership.  

Oh...and if you dont pay your fees they will take it back, but its not a foreclosure


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## massvacationer (Dec 18, 2011)

Also

On ebay, some of the Palm Aire points, that are for sale,  are converted fixed weeks and some are UDI points.  The listing will usually not be clear, as to which it is.  

Converted fixed weeks can only ARP the underlying, deeded week.  If you own UDI points, you can ARP any of the available weeks/nights that were deeded as UDI.

I also defer to Linda and the other experts on Pompano beach, as to whether ARP is necessary there.

Dave


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 18, 2011)

cbn,
Welcome to TUG!

Is there a particular reason YOU want Palm Aire? And what size unit are you looking for?

You could with a little looking and poking, get several fixed weeks in the Pompano Beach and Ft Lauderdale area. This would be cheaper in MFs as you would NOT be paying for the online computer system at $.51 per 1k of points or $119 minimum CWP fee yearly. 

Then you don't have to play or worry about reserving during the right reservation window.

Yes, I own points. And I own Fixed Weeks. At the same resorts.


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## cbn (Dec 19, 2011)

*Access vs. Wyndham plus points*

Thanks for the vauable info everyone! Linda, to answer your question about the size of the unit at Palm Aire for January,it will mostly be a studio or 1 bedroom and occassionally larger.Now I have more questions.Linda's statement about "Access club yearly fee minimum" puzzled me. I thought you paid your mf fee for Access points yearly and then just paid the usual Wyndham reservation fee (per trade made in a day) like everyone else with Wyndham plus points.


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## cbn (Dec 19, 2011)

*Wyndham trading power in Rci*

Also I was wondering, when trading in RCI, does all Wyndham plus points (no matter if home resort is gold or silver) and all Access points have the same high trading power?(In other words should I consider trading power when buying Wyndham resale points? Will I have to worry if I have Access and I'm not assigned a week at a gold crown before I trade with RCI?)


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## cbn (Dec 19, 2011)

*No foreclosure on Access points?*



ronparise said:


> re arp at Florida beach resorts I yield to Linda...she knows.
> 
> So for a vacation at these resorts it would seem any Wyndham points will do. There are lots that will give you a lower maintenance fee than Club Wyndham Access, but CWA will give you some insulation against increasing maintenance fees and special assessments, as you pay a blended rate, based on an average across their entire ownership.
> 
> Oh...and if you dont pay your fees they will take it back, but its not a foreclosure



Thanks for responding. I'm  learning alot! Regarding "no foreclosure on Access points if you don't pay mf." Why then do people sell Access on ebay for nothing? Why not just let it go back to Wyndham if they won't be foreclosed on and have their credit hurt? Also, don't you fear you will be hit with special assessments constantly(even if small amounts) since there are many resorts in the Access group?


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 19, 2011)

ronparise said:


> Oh...and if you dont pay your fees they will take it back, but its not a foreclosure



That difference hadn't occurred to me.  Could  that eventually make the Access contract easier to walk away from?  Realizing that it's still relatively new, could this result in a greater rate of bad debt for the HOAs of resorts in Access?


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 19, 2011)

The MFs are assessed and set by the resort (the HOA). Then there is the Wyndham computer, phone lines, customer service staff and your "free" RCI membership costs - the is call the CWP (Club Wyndham Plus) or CWA (Club Wyndham Access) fee .... depending on where your points come from. Wyndham has just change the minimum cost per member number to be $119 yearly or $.51 per thousand points owned.

Trading/depositing into/thru RCI does not have the same value. A high value trade requires you to deposit more Wyndham points thru the portal to RCI. Bigger the unit, more points required again. There is no free lunch in Wyndham-land.


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## ronparise (Dec 19, 2011)

cbn said:


> Thanks for responding. I'm  learning alot! Regarding "no foreclosure on Access points if you don't pay mf." Why then do people sell Access on ebay for nothing? Why not just let it go back to Wyndham if they won't be foreclosed on and have their credit hurt? Also, don't you fear you will be hit with special assessments constantly(even if small amounts) since there are many resorts in the Access group?



I didnt say your credit wouldnt take a hit...Its just not a foreclosure

No question you will get hit with little special assessments, but Im hoping nothing like what the owners of one resort in Hawaii got hit with recently ($5000). or Club La Pension in New Orleans where I own 2 weeks ($1580)


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## ronparise (Dec 19, 2011)

vacationhopeful said:


> The MFs are assessed and set by the resort (the HOA). Then there is the Wyndham computer, phone lines, customer service staff and your "free" RCI membership costs - the is call the CWP (Club Wyndham Plus) or CWA (Club Wyndham Access) fee .... depending on where your points come from. Wyndham has just change the minimum cost per member number to be $119 yearly or $.51 per thousand points owned.
> 
> Trading/depositing into/thru RCI does not have the same value. A high value trade requires you to deposit more Wyndham points thru the portal to RCI. Bigger the unit, more points required again. There is no free lunch in Wyndham-land.



But Linda...these things are the same for CWA and CWS The ops question went to the differences

Sorry Linda...I see now you were responding to a specific question further up the thread


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## rrlongwell (Dec 19, 2011)

Cheryl20772 said:


> That difference hadn't occurred to me.  Could  that eventually make the Access contract easier to walk away from?  Realizing that it's still relatively new, could this result in a greater rate of bad debt for the HOAs of resorts in Access?



You have identified the issue that causes me concern with Club Wyndham Access membership.  The Homeowner's Associations, I would think, would not be the first hurt.  Before that happened, Club Wynhdam would probably have to keep increasing their fees on the paying owners to cover the maintance fees in their inventory.  If they could not do so, then I would assume a liquidation of their deeded ownerships would occur for failure to pay the maintance fees.  Then the Homeowners Association would have the problem on what do with their units that presumably would come back to them.  I am not sure, but I think Club Wyndham Access is basically acting as a buffer to the existing Homeowner's Associations.  This would be especially true if most of their inventory is non-peak deeded properties (fixed week or UDI).


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## Cheryl20772 (Dec 19, 2011)

cbn said:


> Also I was wondering, when trading in RCI, does all Wyndham plus points (no matter if home resort is gold or silver) and all Access points have the same high trading power?(In other words should I consider trading power when buying Wyndham resale points? Will I have to worry if I have Access and I'm not assigned a week at a gold crown before I trade with RCI?)


I'll try to answer this.  When you log in to your Wyndham owner account, you see how many points you own and when they can be used.  Before a use year expires, you could deposit minimum 74K points into RCI.  This means if you have less than that many left over, you have to decide what to do.  It's possible to rent additional points from Wyndham at $10 per point to reach 74K.  It costs a reservation transaction to put points into RCI and then you have to pay the RCI reservation fee when you use the points.  Points are points in your account.  If you put 74K in this year, you can add to them next year and use them all together for a larger reservation in RCI.  

We don't make a reservation someplace first and then deposit the points.  Just the points and it doesn't matter where you own or Access or regular contract.  

You can read more about how this works in the Wyndham Members Directory page 236.  http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/memberdirectory11-12/


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## learnalot (Dec 19, 2011)

cbn said:


> Also I was wondering, when trading in RCI, does all Wyndham plus points (no matter if home resort is gold or silver) and all Access points have the same high trading power?(In other words should I consider trading power when buying Wyndham resale points? Will I have to worry if I have Access and I'm not assigned a week at a gold crown before I trade with RCI?)



Wyndham points deposited to RCI are generic, not tied in any way to your home resort.  Trading power in RCI is not impacted by where your points are based.  If you happen to see a contract for a fixed week, then you need to look at the fixed week's trading power.  Fixed weeks that have not been converted to points are the only weeks that can be deposited directly with RCI.  Points owners cannot reserve a week and then deposit it with RCI.  We can only deposit straight generic points.


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## paxsarah (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheryl20772 said:


> I'll try to answer this.  When you log in to your Wyndham owner account, you see how many points you own and when they can be used.  Before a use year expires, you could deposit minimum 74K points into RCI.  This means if you have less than that many left over, you have to decide what to do.  It's possible to rent additional points from Wyndham at $10 per point to reach 74K.  It costs a reservation transaction to put points into RCI and then you have to pay the RCI reservation fee when you use the points.  Points are points in your account.  If you put 74K in this year, you can add to them next year and use them all together for a larger reservation in RCI.
> 
> We don't make a reservation someplace first and then deposit the points.  Just the points and it doesn't matter where you own or Access or regular contract.
> 
> You can read more about how this works in the Wyndham Members Directory page 236.  http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/memberdirectory11-12/



This is a good summary except the minimum deposit is 27K, not 74K. 74K is the smallest amount that will get you an exchange (studio or 1BR in quiet season).


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## antjmar (Dec 20, 2011)

cbn said:


> I am interested in your question and I am planning on buying into the Wyndham points program  via resale. I would like to use the points primarily for Wyndham Palm Aire in January. Am I better off purchasing  and using  Wyndham Access Points, Wyndham Plus Points from any resort with a low maintainance, or having points with Palm Aire as our home resort so we can definitely have plenty of APR inventory. I like Acccess points in theory and Palm Aire is part of the Access inventory but I would like to learn from someone with Access experience or from anyone familiar with reserving Palm Aire in January.



My opinion is buy where you want to travel if possible. While this will not be the least expensive option at least you know you bought what you wanted. For 154K points it might cost you an extra $150 a year but if  Wyndham changes the rules in the future you arents stuck owning at  a resort you never plan to visit.
Last sales presentation I was told that resale buyers in the future will only be able to make reservations at the resort where they own.  While I am sure this was a lie it makes me wonder if they could do this legally? Wyndham is the owners of the points sysytem and they charge us a fee to be part of it (program fee) I imagine they could change the rules and tell us that new owners cant be part of the "points program". 

Again, I really  DONT KNOW but since I belive the deeds states points at a particular resort  I would GUESS that they could.


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## cbn (Dec 20, 2011)

*Access questions still*



ronparise said:


> I didnt say your credit wouldnt take a hit...Its just not a foreclosure
> 
> No question you will get hit with little special assessments, but Im hoping nothing like what the owners of one resort in Hawaii got hit with recently ($5000). or Club La Pension in New Orleans where I own 2 weeks ($1580)



Your logic about special assessments makes sense. Do you pay a separate yearly fee to use plus points or access points? Are they slipped into your MF?(Linda's statement regarding fess  for access based on amount of points you have confused me. )I just want to make sure after yearly MF and reservation fees ($30/$59) you are done and can have your reservation at wyndham resort complete. Does discussion about Access points coming from foreclosed weeks/points and other older weeks worry you at all with Access value in future?


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## scootr5 (Dec 20, 2011)

cbn said:


> Your logic about special assessments makes sense. Do you pay a separate yearly fee to use plus points or access points? Are they slipped into your MF?(Linda's statement regarding fess  for access based on amount of points you have confused me. )I just want to make sure after yearly MF and reservation fees ($30/$59) you are done and can have your reservation at wyndham resort complete. Does discussion about Access points coming from foreclosed weeks/points and other older weeks worry you at all with Access value in future?



The other thing that comes to mind is if you are doing short stays instead of full weeks you might run out of houskeeping credits. You get 1 credit for every 1,000 points. It's 77 housekeeping credits for a stay in a 2 bedroom, regardless of whether it's 1 night or 7. If you need more they cost about $2.25 each from Wyndham.


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## vacationhopeful (Dec 20, 2011)

CWP or CWA have a fee for usage of the functions and extras that your HOA does not have for fixed or floating week owners.

The original means to sell timeshares years ago was Fixed Weeks or Floating Weeks. You brought an ownership of *a* 7 night starting on either a particular FRI, SAT or SUN of a particular WEEK or SEASON. Your HOA maintenance fees were based on your UNIT SIZE and the number of UNITs that the HOA was composed of. 

Along come POINTS systems. Your HOA still determines your base HOA fee, but the Points company has to recoup costs to RUN and OPERATE the points functions. Computer program development, online access, 1-800 # of phone  agents, printed material, RCI membership if offered; they also have to collect and pass along to the resorts information on the date of arrivals and units sizes for the inbounds. Some manage to collect Housekeeping fees IF the guest is stay less than 7 nights (RCI Points has each resort collecting their added cost for stays less than 7 night).

In Wyndham, the two different points systems are PLUS and ACCESS. Those fees are known as CWP fee and CWA fee verses your annual HOA fee called the "Maintenance Fee" or the separate line item call "Property Taxes".

Hope this helps your understanding of these fees which come along with buying either Club Wyndham Plus or Club Wyndham Access  POINTS.


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## cbn (Dec 20, 2011)

*Any benefit to anniversary month when reserving*

Since I'm a newbie I'm still checking things out.Are you able to use ARP if you want to book a reservation for January Y and your anniversary is January first.(Do you just call 13 months before Jan. Y to reserve at a week in Jan Y. that you technically haven't payed MF on yet?)  I am leaning toward buying Access points as resale and want to figure out the best anniversary for me since I have come across different anniversary months. (Will my anniversary ever matter with regards to the month I need to make my reservation from or do I only always just pay attention to the 13m0/10mo window?) If I can't use the ability to have ARP in this example maybe the opportunity of ARP for the resorts in Access are not a benefit I can use and plus points will be just  as good when it comes to reserving. (I'm aware credit pool points loses ARP and that the inventory of units to use with Access ARP may be limited in general.).
.


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## rrlongwell (Dec 20, 2011)

cbn said:


> Since I'm a newbie I'm still checking things out.Are you able to use ARP if you want to book a reservation for January Y and your anniversary is January first.(Do you just call 13 months before Jan. Y to reserve at a week in Jan Y. that you technically haven't payed MF on yet?)  I am leaning toward buying Access points as resale and want to figure out the best anniversary for me since I have come across different anniversary months. (Will my anniversary ever matter with regards to the month I need to make my reservation from or do I only always just pay attention to the 13m0/10mo window?) If I can't use the ability to have ARP in this example maybe the opportunity of ARP for the resorts in Access are not a benefit I can use and plus points will be just  as good when it comes to reserving. (I'm aware credit pool points loses ARP and that the inventory of units to use with Access ARP may be limited in general.).
> .



Your ARP rights would be honored even if the maintance fees are not yet due.  Wynhdam has other ways to handle that situation.  If the account is in good standing you will be fine.  At this time, I would suspect Club Wynhdam Plus points would have more ARP availabilty than the Club Wynhdam Access points because Access ARP is only good up to the level that Access owns the deeds on.  If Access owned deeds at any given resort exceeds the Club Wyndham Access points, then this could change.  The other way it could change has to do with use year and ARP.  ARP points can be used from multiple contracts only if they are the same use year.  Since Access presumably is taking on Myrtle Beach properties on a regular basis, The amount of usable ARP reservations is probably increasing.  Myrtle is a huge amount of points for a summer week reservation.  By taking a bunch of points contracts that are not sufficient to book a summer week can then be added together based on use year to give more usable ARP rights.  In theory, they may be at this point now.


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## cbn (Dec 20, 2011)

*CWA/ CWP fee*

In Wyndham, the two different points systems are PLUS and ACCESS. Those fees are known as CWP fee and CWA fee verses your annual HOA fee called the "Maintenance Fee" or the separate line item call "Property Taxes".

Hope this helps your understanding of these fees which come along with buying either Club Wyndham Plus or Club Wyndham Access  POINTS.[/QUOTE]

This helps alot-great background info. (I didn't even know what CWP?CWA stood for before)Is the CWP or CWA *included *when you are paying the MF (monthly/yearly) or do you get a separate bill for them during the year. (I am trying to figure out when I buy resale and they list the MF, will I get another fee after i buy for CWP or CWA yearly from Wyndham? Is it dependent on number of points owned or number of contracts?)


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## rrlongwell (Dec 20, 2011)

cbn said:


> ... (I am trying to figure out when I buy resale and they list the MF, will I get another fee after i buy for CWP or CWA yearly from Wyndham? Is it dependent on number of points owned or number of contracts?)



The odds are pretty good this would be true for Internet listings.  The HOA fees and Wyndham fees are broken out but paid for at one time.


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