# Little things...



## MisterMoregore (Aug 5, 2018)

I recently purchased two small contracts through eBay, waiting patiently for them to be mine (a few month wait I imagine). Id like to maximize how much I get out of this lifestyle. I just had a few small questions for the more experienced Tuggers out there.

1) have any of you had trouble booking a Rhode Island resort during summer during a standard reservation window? I read one thread which said it's nearly impossible. I've been stalking Rhode Island through my inlaws account, and so far it doesn't seem super difficult to get in, but then again, I can't see July. 

2) if exchanging into RCI, how exactly does that work? Do I deposit a certain number of Wyndham points, or do I book a Wyndham resort in a high demand area and deposit that week? What kind of inventory does RCI have? Again, its not a priority, but if they had summer resorts in Maryland or Delaware near the beach, I would probably be interested occasionally.


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## Sandi Bo (Aug 5, 2018)

If you keep an eye on Newport, you can find it, especially if a 1 bedroom unit works for you, and especially if you don't care which resort.

I've probably booked it 10 times in the last 3 years, for myself or another relative, and most every time last minute.  Especially watch at 15-20 days out with a little diligence.


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 5, 2018)

MisterMoregore said:


> I recently purchased two small contracts through eBay, waiting patiently for them to be mine (a few month wait I imagine). Id like to maximize how much I get out of this lifestyle. I just had a few small questions for the more experienced Tuggers out there.
> 
> 1) have any of you had trouble booking a Rhode Island resort during summer during a standard reservation window? I read one thread which said it's nearly impossible. I've been stalking Rhode Island through my inlaws account, and so far it doesn't seem super difficult to get in, but then again, I can't see July.
> 
> 2) if exchanging into RCI, how exactly does that work? Do I deposit a certain number of Wyndham points, or do I book a Wyndham resort in a high demand area and deposit that week? What kind of inventory does RCI have? Again, its not a priority, but if they had summer resorts in Maryland or Delaware near the beach, I would probably be interested occasionally.



Off season is pretty easy to book. Summer is harder. I have been lucky at the end of August - mainly at Long Wharf.


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## CO skier (Aug 6, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> Summer is harder.


Some people want to think that Wyndham "points are points" so buy at the lowest maintenance fee resorts, but ARP has its privileges at certain resorts during certain times.


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## Lisa P (Aug 6, 2018)

Summer is harder but not impossible.  IOW, either go online right around the beginning of the 10-month standard reservation window for your dates or check daily for last minute cancellations.  This is how it is at the very most popular destinations and dates.  If you expect to frequently vacation there and then, it's worth considering a home resort purchase to accomplish this.  If you don't mind scheduling this way, or your destinations will vary, any points will do.

For example, right now, it's about a week or two into the 10-month mark for reserving a 4-night weekend or the full week including Memorial Day weekend.  For either reservation, there are 3 Newport resorts with 1BR availability and 2 other Newport area resorts with 2BR availability.  Easy-peasy.  But once the northeastern schools let out for the summer (mid- to late-June), I would check within a day or so of the window opening because there are fewer owners who have converted their prime summer weeks to points and more people seeking those reservations.

To exchange via RCI, we usually place an OnGoing Search (OGS) request without depositing our points.  When it matches, we confirm and they move the needed amount of points over from our Wyndham account to RCI.  If we have points that are going to expire before we can use them, we deposit those into RCI as well.

To deposit them in RCI, go online at Wyndham and click on:
the banner link, *My Ownership*, and..
the tab, *Exchanges*, and...
the link to *Deposit your Points into RCI today*.

You may make an RCI deposit in increments of 1,000 points with a minimum of 10,000 at a time.  Points in RCI with different expiration dates are combined when you exchange and they use the ones with the earliest expiration date first.  There's a grid/chart on the Wyndham website showing the amount of points usually required to confirm a unit/season week-long exchange.

To find the exchange grid/chart, go online at Wyndham and click on:
the banner link, *Owner 101*, and..
under the tab, *Knowledge Base*, scroll down to *My Additional Vacation Options*, and click on...
the *Exchange Options* link to *Interval International Request First >* (not sure why the grid is not available on the RCI link at this time).



Again, this grid shows the amount of points you'll need to have available to confirm an exchange.  You don't need to make deposits in these amounts in advance.


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## paxsarah (Aug 6, 2018)

Lisa P said:


> But once the northeastern schools let out for the summer (mid- to late-June), I would check within a day or so of the window opening



I would check at midnight at 10 months exactly.


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## silentg (Aug 6, 2018)

We exchanged into Wyndham Bay Voyage in Jamestown, RI in November 2014. It was off season, but we went up for a wedding. One bedroom on the other side of the bridge from Newport.Resturant 
Jamestown was very nice. I’m sure it is harder to get a week here in the summer.
Silentg


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## skotrla (Aug 6, 2018)

CO skier said:


> Some people want to think that Wyndham "points are points" so buy at the lowest maintenance fee resorts, but ARP has its privileges at certain resorts during certain times.



ARP has its privileges, but you pay dearly for them, whether you use them or not.

If you own 500K points @ $4.50/1K and 500K points @ $6.50/1K to get ARP at various resorts, you can look at this in 2 ways:

1000K points @ $5.50

1000K points @ $4.50 plus a $1000/year fixed fee for ARP privileges

I would contend that the second one is closer to reality, since you pay the $1000 whether you use the points for ARP reservations or not. I would guess there are many people that could get rid of their more expensive points used for ARP reservations and just fork out money for a rental if they don't use all of their more expensive ports for ARP reservations every single year.

If you only make one 200K ARP reservation in a year, the first method puts your cost at $1100 for that reservation, but the second method puts your cost at $1900.

-Scott


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## CO skier (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> ARP has its privileges, but you pay dearly for them, whether you use them or not.


Every owners' situation is different.  I have used my ARP privileges for every reservation but two over the past 10 years.  I knew nothing about ARP when I won the EBay auctions.  It was only later that I learned how buying "where I want to vacation" proved so fortuitous.

My maintenance fees are a bargain, because I reserve units at the highest demand times.  The three and four bedroom units I reserve are not available at 10 months.  That makes ARP priceless to me, and your analysis irrelevant in my case.

For someone who always books their vacations within 10 months, that is a completely different world from mine, and there would be no reason to own at any specific resort.  Each owner needs to determine which world they will vacation in, or buy Club Wyndham Access just in case they someday need ARP somewhere.


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## ronparise (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> ARP has its privileges, but you pay dearly for them, whether you use them or not.
> 
> If you own 500K points @ $4.50/1K and 500K points @ $6.50/1K to get ARP at various resorts, you can look at this in 2 ways:
> 
> ...





Scott wants to break  your maintenance fee bill into two components. 1) The fee for points used to make reservations at resorts other than the one you own at 10 months and 2) the fee paid for ARP at your home resort.   You cant own wyndham points without the arp benefit.  So to break your maintenance fee bill into two categories makes no sense and shows that Scott has no idea just how Wyndham works



Club Wyndham plus is an exchange club.  I can take my "use rights" at a property I own to make a reservation at a resort I dont own using points as the medium of exchange. Thats the benefit of owning Club Wyndham points and we pay for that benefit. but not with a portion of our maintenance fees. We pay for the exchange benefit by paying a separate fee called the program fee.  To be clear, our maintenance fees are assessed by the resort and ultimately paid to the resort for the operations of the resort.   The program fee is paid to the club and it's the club that makes exchanges possible  or said in a different way;  reservations at 13 months is what you get at your home resort, and you do not pay extra to stay at your own property. Reservations at 10 months is the extra benefit you get for membership in the club and you do pay for that benefit 


now Scotts question is a valid one. (Its just that using ARP to make his case makes no sense).   The question as I understand it is this:  Is it more cost effective to own or rent  vacation accommodations.  and CoSkier has given him his answer


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

CO skier said:


> Every owners' situation is different.  I have used my ARP privileges for every reservation but two over the past 10 years.  I knew nothing about ARP when I won the EBay auctions.  It was only later that I learned how buying "where I want to vacation" proved so fortuitous.
> 
> My maintenance fees are a bargain, because I reserve units at the highest demand times.  The three and four bedroom units I reserve are not available at 10 months.  That makes ARP priceless to me, and your analysis irrelevant in my case.
> 
> For someone who always books their vacations within 10 months, that is a completely different world from mine, and there would be no reason to own at any specific resort.  Each owner needs to determine which world they will vacation in, or buy Club Wyndham Access just in case they someday need ARP somewhere.



If you use ARP for all reservations, then you are in good shape - your cost is the same for both methods.  It's when you mix ARP and non-ARP reservations that you run into allocation issues that can skew the cost of one reservation vs. the other, which has an impact when you book for family/friends, do rentals, or even make a rent vs. using your points decision for an individual reservation.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

ronparise said:


> Scott wants to break  your maintenance fee bill into two components. 1) The fee for points used to make reservations at resorts other than the one you own at 10 months and 2) the fee paid for ARP at your home resort.   You cant own wyndham points without the arp benefit.  So to break your maintenance fee bill into two categories makes no sense and shows that Scott has no idea just how Wyndham works
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course all points have ARP privileges, but only some resorts/weeks need ARP in order to have availability to book a reservation and others do not.  If you book a reservation at 13 months out and the same reservation is still available at 10 months, you didn't need ARP - you could rebook using points from another resort and get your more expensive points back for using for reservations that actually need ARP (at a cost of $19 for non-VIP, but for a 200K reservation at $2/1K more in maintenance, that's a $400 savings).

If all of your points have the same maintenance cost, then the distinction doesn't matter, but in my example, an owner has 500K points with low maintenance (at resorts where they don't book and/or don't need ARP) and 500K points with higher maintenance that were purchased specifically for ARP privileges.   When you mix ARP and non-ARP reservations at significantly different maintenance $/1K, you run into allocation issues that can skew the cost of one reservation vs. the other, which has an impact when you book for family/friends, do rentals, or even make a rent vs. using your points decision for an individual reservation.

-Scott


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## Richelle (Aug 7, 2018)

CO skier said:


> Some people want to think that Wyndham "points are points" so buy at the lowest maintenance fee resorts, but ARP has its privileges at certain resorts during certain times.


I’ve never had a problem booking 10 months out, so I keep my points at National harbor for the low MF.  Obviously, if you want a four bedroom presidential during bike week in Daytona, you better be online at midnight at the 13 month mark, which means you need ARP.  If you want a one bedroom, your odds are fairly good at 10 months.  It just may not be at the resort closest to the action.  If your flexible, you won’t need ARP most of the time.  Also, just because you have ARP doesn’t mean you have access to all the inventory.  CWA only has Access to CWA designated inventory.  So if only 10 rooms are CWA, you’re competing with a lot of owners for that inventory if you are CWA. The same can be said for deeded.  The whole darn system is a crap shoot.


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## Jan M. (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> Of course all points have ARP, but only some resorts/weeks need ARP in order to have availability to book a reservation and others do not.  If you book a reservation at 13 months out and the same reservation is still available at 10 months, you didn't need ARP - you could rebook using points from another resort and get your more expensive ARP points back (at a cost of $19 for non-VIP, but for a 200K reservation at $2/1K more in maintenance, that's a $400 savings).
> 
> If all of your points have the same maintenance cost, then the distinction doesn't matter, but in my example, an owner has 500K points with low maintenance (at resorts where they don't book and/or don't need ARP) and 500K points with higher maintenance that were purchased specifically for ARP.   When you mix ARP and non-ARP reservations at significantly different maintenance $/1K, you run into allocation issues that can skew the cost of one reservation vs. the other, which has an impact when you book for family/friends, do rentals, or even make a rent vs. using your points decision for an individual reservation.
> 
> -Scott



Scott in spite of Ron and OP tying to explain you still aren't getting how Wyndham works. As a non Wyndham owner who has never used the system you have no business answering other people's questions when you are confusing them and giving incorrect information.

P.S. There is nothing wrong with anyone asking questions. However when you start answering other people's questions, especially new people, it appears that you are presenting yourself as a knowledgeable and what would seem to other people as a trusted source of information. That both crosses a line and doesn't help.


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> you could rebook using points from another resort and get your more expensive ARP points back
> 
> When you mix ARP and non-ARP reservations at significantly different maintenance $/1K,
> -Scott



There is no such thing as ARP points. Saying that will confuse people.

There are maintenance fees. That is what you are paying. There is no premium cost for "ARP."  You pay for the maintenance of the place you own. In CWA's case, you pay the average of all of the maintenance fees for the inventory placed in the club. You are not paying a premium cost.

Many of the less desirable locations have high MF/$1K.  Many desirable locations have low MF/$1K - often because it costs more points to stay there.  There is a lot more to consider than purely numbers here.


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## ecwinch (Aug 7, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Scott in spite of Ron and OP tying to explain you still aren't getting how Wyndham works. As a non Wyndham owner who has never used the system you have no business answering other people's questions when you are confusing them and giving
> incorrect information.
> 
> P.S. There is nothing wrong with anyone asking questions. However when you start answering other people's questions, especially new people, it appears that you are presenting yourself as a knowledgeable and what would seem to other people as a trusted source of information. That both crosses a line and doesn't help.



Scott - dovetailing into Jan's last point, you might considered including some disclaimer in your replies offering advice that alert reader's that you are not a Club Wyndham member and have never used the system - ie. that your knowledge is not first hand. I am sure you might feel the same way if Jan jumped into the HIVC group on FB and started offering advice.

IMHO and not with my moderator hat on.


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## HitchHiker71 (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> Of course all points have ARP, but only some resorts/weeks need ARP in order to have availability to book a reservation and others do not.  If you book a reservation at 13 months out and the same reservation is still available at 10 months, you didn't need ARP - you could rebook using points from another resort and get your more expensive ARP points back (at a cost of $19 for non-VIP, but for a 200K reservation at $2/1K more in maintenance, that's a $400 savings).
> 
> If all of your points have the same maintenance cost, then the distinction doesn't matter, but in my example, an owner has 500K points with low maintenance (at resorts where they don't book and/or don't need ARP) and 500K points with higher maintenance that were purchased specifically for ARP.   When you mix ARP and non-ARP reservations at significantly different maintenance $/1K, you run into allocation issues that can skew the cost of one reservation vs. the other, which has an impact when you book for family/friends, do rentals, or even make a rent vs. using your points decision for an individual reservation.
> 
> -Scott



AFAIK, I have 210k CWA developer points, and 508k PIC points annually.  All of those points qualify as CWA points for ARP.  My MFs on those 508k PIC points are $1591.00 annually this year, plus 0.58/1000 points for the fees, for a total of $1885.64.  I'm at $3.71/1000 points on MFs for the PIC contracts, and $5.77 plus fees for my 210k points.  I therefore have ARP at 66 resorts across all 718k annual points if I'm understanding things correctly?


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> There is no such thing as ARP points. Saying that will confuse people.
> 
> There are maintenance fees. That is what you are paying. There is no premium cost for "ARP."  You pay for the maintenance of the place you own. In CWA's case, you pay the average of all of the maintenance fees for the inventory placed in the club. You are not paying a premium cost.
> 
> Many of the less desirable locations have high MF/$1K.  Many desirable locations have low MF/$1K - often because it costs more points to stay there.  There is a lot more to consider than purely numbers here.





CO skier said:


> Some people want to think that Wyndham "points are points" so buy at the lowest maintenance fee resorts, but ARP has its privileges at certain resorts during certain times.



In my example, an owner owns 500K points @ $4.50/1K ("buying at the lowest maintenance fee resorts"), but those points are at resorts where the owner doesn't go, so they can only book at 10 months (the owner still has ARP but the ARP is not usable to him).

The owner wants ARP at specific resorts, so for their next 500K points, they look for points at those resorts.  If the minimum maintenance at the resorts they want ARP at is $6.50/1K, I would call that a premium of $2/1K ($6.50-$4.50).

Only the owner can say whether the ARP at resorts for the more expensive points is worth $1000, the only thing I can do is provide a framework for how to think about that cost.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

Jan M. said:


> Scott in spite of Ron and OP tying to explain you still aren't getting how Wyndham works. As a non Wyndham owner who has never used the system you have no business answering other people's questions when you are confusing them and giving incorrect information.
> 
> P.S. There is nothing wrong with anyone asking questions. However when you start answering other people's questions, especially new people, it appears that you are presenting yourself as a knowledgeable and what would seem to other people as a trusted source of information. That both crosses a line and doesn't help.



ARP is not unique to Wyndham - the same concept exists in all points timeshare systems that I am aware of (aka Home Resort Priority).  Nothing in my response was Wyndham-specific.  If there are specific differences in the Wyndham system that I am missing, then highlighting those would be helpful.

I didn't see that the OP was even asking about ARP?  I responded to CO skier's assertion that ARP is important with a caveat that ARP is expensive (to be more precise, ARP at specific resorts requires owning points from those resorts, and the maintenance of those points is often much higher than the lowest maintenance points).

-Scott


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> In my example, an owner owns 500K points @ $4.50/1K ("buying at the lowest maintenance fee resorts"), but those points are at resorts where the owner doesn't go, so they can only book at 10 months (the owner still has ARP but the ARP is not usable to him).
> 
> The owner wants ARP at specific resorts, so for their next 500K points, they look for points at those resorts.  If the minimum maintenance at the resorts they want ARP at is $6.50/1K, I would call that a premium of $2/1K ($6.50-$4.50).
> 
> ...



You can throw all the calculations around you want, there is no such thing as ARP points. You pay maintenance fees for maintenance, not ARP premiums. You will confuse people who are here to look for answers if you don't look past the numbers. CO skier explained the same theory using simple terminology that will NOT confuse novices.  Points are points for some, but ARP is important and worth higher maintenance fees for others.  Calling points "ARP points" and "non ARP points" adds a level of confusion not necessary to explain the concept. And now, people will also think there is some $1000 charge for ARP to top it off.


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## Jan M. (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> ARP is not unique to Wyndham - the same concept exists in all points timeshare systems that I am aware of (aka Home Resort Priority).  Nothing in my response was Wyndham-specific.  If there are specific differences in the Wyndham system that I am missing, then highlighting those would be helpful.
> 
> I didn't see that the OP was even asking about ARP?  I responded to CO skier's assertion that ARP is important with a caveat that ARP is expensive (to be more precise, ARP at specific resorts requires owning points from those resorts, and the maintenance of those points is often much higher than the lowest maintenance points).
> 
> -Scott



It is your choice whether or not to take the hint Eric gave you.


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

ecwinch said:


> Scott - dovetailing into Jan's last point, you might considered including some disclaimer in your replies offering advice that alert reader's that you are not a Club Wyndham member and have never used the system - ie. that your knowledge is not first hand. I am sure you might feel the same way if Jan jumped into the HIVC group on FB and started offering advice.
> 
> IMHO and not with my moderator hat on.



In my experience, many of the intricacies of timeshare ownership go beyond a single system and the majority of owners in any system have large amount of misinformation.  I'd expect that many non-HICV who know enough about the system to answer questions would likely do a better job than many HICV owners who may own a small unit and use it irregularly.

-Scott


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

HitchHiker71 said:


> AFAIK, I have 210k CWA developer points, and 508k PIC points annually.  All of those points qualify as CWA points for ARP.  My MFs on those 508k PIC points are $1591.00 annually this year, plus 0.58/1000 points for the fees, for a total of $1885.64.  I'm at $3.71/1000 points on MFs for the PIC contracts, and $5.77 plus fees for my 210k points.  I therefore have ARP at 66 resorts across all 718k annual points if I'm understanding things correctly?



That's not my understanding, from p.230 of the membership guide:

"When confirming an ARP reservation you may use up to the amount of points owned on contract(s) associated with your CLUB WYNDHAM Access ownership interest."

To me, that means that the PIC points cannot be used for an ARP reservation, since they are not part of your CWA ownership interest?

-Scott


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> You can throw all the calculations around you want, there is no such thing as ARP points. You pay maintenance fees for maintenance, not ARP premiums. You will confuse people who are here to look for answers if you don't look past the numbers. CO skier explained the same theory using simple terminology that will NOT confuse novices.  Points are points for some, but ARP is important and worth higher maintenance fees for others.  Calling points "ARP points" and "non ARP points" adds a level of confusion not necessary to explain the concept. And now, people will also think there is some $1000 charge for ARP to top it off.



The comment I initially responded to said that ARP privileges were worth not having the lowest cost points in some cases - paying more for points with ARP at specific resorts is by definition a premium.  Sorry if the phrase non-ARP points is confusing people - when I say non-ARP points, I mean points for non-ARP reservations.

Only the owner can say whether the ARP at resorts for the more expensive points is worth $1000 (in the case of 500K points at a premium of $2/1K), the only thing I can do is provide a framework for how to think about that cost. 

If someone wants to provide the highest and lowest maintenance costs at specific UDI resorts, I can add resort specifics to my use case.

-Scott


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> The comment I initially responded to said that ARP privileges were worth not having the lowest cost points in some cases
> 
> Only the owner can say whether the ARP at resorts for the more expensive points is worth it
> 
> ...


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

Examples help me, so I post in examples.  When someone else posts an example, I can plug my own numbers in and then figure out if their result also applies to me.

-Scott


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## ronparise (Aug 7, 2018)

skotrla said:


> ARP is not unique to Wyndham - the same concept exists in all points timeshare systems that I am aware of (aka Home Resort Priority).  Nothing in my response was Wyndham-specific.  If there are specific differences in the Wyndham system that I am missing, then highlighting those would be helpful.
> 
> I didn't see that the OP was even asking about ARP?  I responded to CO skier's assertion that ARP is important with a caveat that ARP is expensive (to be more precise, ARP at specific resorts requires owning points from those resorts, and the maintenance of those points is often much higher than the lowest maintenance points).
> 
> -Scott


That’s just nonsense Scott

...All points have home resort priority
...Maintenance fees vary resort to resort.
....Maintenance fee rates vary  resort to resort
....Typically the resorts that have the lowest maintenance fee rates have the highest maintenance fees
....Some resorts have lots of times that you need arp
....some resorts have no time when you need arp.

You just can’t make the general conclusion that arp is expensive

The fact is that arp reservations cost exactly the same as non arp


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

ronparise said:


> That’s just nonsense Scott
> 
> ...All points have home resort priority
> ...Maintenance fees vary resort to resort.
> ...



The original post I responded to said that going for the "lowest maintenance points" limited your availability.  Expensive is of course a relative term, but in my example, points at the resort where the owner wanted ARP had maintenance that was $2/1K more than the other points the owner had.  For most owners, the resorts they want to go to are not the lowest maintenance resorts, so owning points for ARP reservations is more expensive than owning points at the lowest maintenance cost.  It's not that an ARP reservation costs more, is that owning the right points to be able to make ARP reservations at the resorts you want to go to costs more.

As I said initially, you can look at it either way, but in my opinion if New Orleans points are more expensive than your "low maintenance points," then any New Orleans ARP reservations you make should bear the cost of the more expensive points.  All points are equal unless you are using the points for ARP reservations, and then the specific points and the cost structure of those points becomes important.

I'll try to look for specific resorts and maintenance costs from the 2018 maintenance cost thread to further explain my point with more specifics.

-Scott


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 7, 2018)

Don't forget there is a higher upfront cost of low maintenance fee contracts that you have not factored into anything. Or the higher point value needed to book one resort over another for the same amount of space. Sometimes the lower point resort is the one that needs the arp, but the higher one is the one with low MF per point.

It isn't that we don't understand your point. We just don't agree with it and feel it is lacking some of the subtleties of ownership that you don't seem to be considering. You keep acting like more numbers will get we owners, the ones who DO actually understand our ownership, to agree with you. This isn't the 90% you referenced earlier who don't understand responding to you.


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

ronparise said:


> That’s just nonsense Scott
> 
> ...All points have home resort priority
> ...Maintenance fees vary resort to resort.
> ...



OK, here goes a post with more specific resorts - 

An owner owns 500K points in San Francisco @ $3.50/1K but they only go to Atlantic City where maintenance is $6.50/1K.

The owner needs more points and is trying to decide between 500K more in San Francisco or 500K more in Atlantic City so that they can make ARP reservations in Atlantic City.

What is the cost of the annual premium to own the Atlantic City points vs. the cheaper San Francisco points?  I would say $1500 (500K x $3).

Let's say the owner decides to get the more expensive Atlantic City points for ARP privileges, but he can't use any of his points one year so he offers to make reservations for family and friends.

A family member asks about ARP reservations to Atlantic City for a total of 500K points - is the owner's break even point on the maintenance for this reservation $6.50/1K, $3.50/1K, or $5/1K (the average of the 2)?  I would say $6.50/1K.

Another family member asks about a couple of reservations to a different resort for 500K points - is the owner's break even point on the maintenance for this reservation $6.50/1K, $3.50/1K, or $5/1K (the average of the 2)?  I would say $3.50/1K.

Even if the owners chooses to charge both family members the same, in my opinion, he took a loss on the first reservation and made up for it on the second reservation, so that on average he came out OK. 

Using more expensive points for non-ARP reservations is very similar to using low cost points for Wyndham Rewards points or RCI deposits or cruises - it's better than losing them, but a suboptimal use of points.

-Scott


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## wjappraise (Aug 7, 2018)

In my experience, ARP has value at some of the higher price MF resorts.  For instance, I own 850,000 points at Royal Vista.  I like getting four rooms a year for a week each, hopefully on the ocean front.  Even if I cannot get ocean front rooms, I can at least get rooms during the heavy "snow bird" season if I wish.  If I wait until ten months out, there are several weeks during the winter that there would be NO INVENTORY available at all at ten months.  Royal Vista is the highest MF resort I own. 

I also own several contracts at Bonnet Creek, which has become a higher MF resort as well.  That one is not as useful in most instances, as inventory is available at ten months for most, if not all, weeks.  So, ownership here is expensive without a good return in ARP use.

I also own a few (far too few) at lower cost resorts that I do not visit.  These provide a good bang for the buck and I should probably sell some of the higher cost MF contracts and get some of the cheaper ones.  However, most savvy buyers are aware of the enhanced value of some resorts, so the outlay of purchase price is higher than CWA or Bonnet Creek contracts.  

The sweet spot is some of the newer resorts with higher points cost per week.  Canterbury, National Harbor, 45 NYC, and others have a lower than average MF rate.  I haven’t seen any Clearwater Beach resales yet, but would guess they are lower too.  And the first ones to hit eBay or Sumday will sell for a premium.  

So, Scott’s point does have some merit, but it is limited - ARP is worth the higher MFs if you can’t get rooms at ten months, and not worth the higher MFs if ten month availability is plentiful.  

Basically, the best advice is what has been shown here numerous times - buy where you want/need ARP, or buy the lowest MF rate.  Great advice, and very simple. Covers all scenarios.  

That is my experience in this matter.


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## skotrla (Aug 7, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> Don't forget there is a higher upfront cost of low maintenance fee contracts that you have not factored into anything. Or the higher point value needed to book one resort over another for the same amount of space. Sometimes the lower point resort is the one that needs the arp, but the higher one is the one with low MF per point.
> 
> It isn't that we don't understand your point. We just don't agree with it and feel it is lacking some of the subtleties of ownership that you don't seem to be considering. You keep acting like more numbers will get we owners, the ones who DO actually understand our ownership, to agree with you. This isn't the 90% you referenced earlier who don't understand responding to you.



That's a completely different topic - that's the decision between paying more up front for low maintenance vs. paying less upfront for high maintenance and is not directly related to ARP.

Low maintenance vs. high maintenance and having ARP privileges vs. not having ARP privileges are fairly universal concepts across most timeshare systems.

-Scott


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 7, 2018)

Because you like examples, here is one. I want to go to Myrtle Beach for the 4th of July with my family. To get a 2 bedroom at Seawatch, it is 203,000. To get a 2 bedroom with an ocean front at Ocean Boulevard is 375,000. 

I need ARP to book at Seawatch. CWA is 5.76/ 1K (I am not sure what Seawatch's current MF is, so I am using CWA) That room will cost me $1170 with ARP.

Ocean Boulevard will not require ARP. If I own Canterbury at 3.55/ 1K, the two bedroom will cost 1331 - higher if I want an upper floor.

ARP just saved me a couple of hundred dollars for my beachfront 4th of July Myrtle Beach vacation. (Yes, I know that MB has reciprocal booking, but I am just using room cost differences to make an example since I am familiar with those resorts).

While someone who is not an owner can certainly be knowledgeable about Wyndham, I am not sure why you keep arguing with owners about a product they do know. It is insulting to our intelligence to assume you know better when you haven't used the product.

And, if you are buying to get low MF or to get ARP, the upfront cost is definitely a factor in the cost of using the product. And I am quite familiar with timeshare systems, you don't need to condescend me by explaining it.


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## ecwinch (Aug 7, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> While someone who is not an owner can certainly be knowledgeable about Wyndham, I am not sure why you keep arguing with owners about a product they do know. It is insulting to our intelligence to assume you know better when you haven't used the product.



Scott - I think Mary is providing some good advice here. Take a step back from the keyboard and consider for a moment the number of very knowledgable people who have used the product for years, and who you are disagreeing with. People who have spent time/energy explaining how your worldview might not be well rooted in how the Wyndham system works.


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## ronparise (Aug 7, 2018)

so here is Scotts argument  "ARP at specific resorts requires owning points from those resorts, and the maintenance of those points is often much higher than the lowest maintenance points"

Even if I agree with this my response has to be "so what? ; Who cares?"

There are two reasons for buying one resort or another when it comes to wyndam.  wjappraise said it in his post above.  Buy for the ARP or buy for the maintenance fees

If you are buying for ARP the cost to buy the points and the annual fees are not and cannot be your prime concern. 

some examples

I live in Milwaukee (long cold winters) and want to take my family to the Wisconsin Dells several weekends every winter. Im going to buy my points from one resort, and I dont care what the maintenance fees are

Im old and retired and want to spend 2 months every year (Jan and Feb) in Florida  Ive stayed at all the south Florida resorts and only Royal Vista will do...I dont care what the maintenance fees are

I live in New Orleans and every year host a housefull of people for Mardi Gras. A big problem for those of us that go into town for the parades is we have no place to pee.. This is a real problem there are even songs written about the problem  



I want to reserve a mardi gras week at Labelle Maison and I dont care what the maintenance fees are

The folks in my examples have specific needs and if you were to tell them that their maintenance fees will be higher than if they were to buy cheaper resorts and take vacations they dont want. They will tell you "So what I dont care" and besides the mf is still cheaper than a comparable vacation rental"

So Scott even if I understood your your argument, it dosent matter


and those of us that rent (or did rent) aren't pegging our prices to our costs  Its not a cost plus thing. We would do a little work to figure out what  market rents are and then price our rentals just a little cheaper


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 7, 2018)

ronparise said:


> so here is Scotts argument  "ARP at specific resorts requires owning points from those resorts, and the maintenance of those points is often much higher than the lowest maintenance points"
> 
> Even if I agree with this my response has to be "so what? ; Who cares?"
> 
> ...



Guilty of arguing back with him, and I have NEVER used an ARP reservation, but I see their value based on years of experience and reservations NOT received, and I know which ones would be worth it to me, or really anyone with any rental or future interest, even at a higher cost. It isn't the understanding of the argument, it really is that it doesn't matter based on the market - the big picture. It goes back to the Sheldon from when he first started posting in the Wyndham page. Lots of numbers, not a real analysis of the big picture. What do YOU want from your ownership? A spreadsheet doesn't fix or answer any of that.


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## CO skier (Aug 7, 2018)

MisterMoregore, if he made it this far in the discussion, must be thinking, “I asked a simple question about reserving Rhode Island during Peak Demand summer and what I got is how to disassemble and re-assemble a Swiss watch at the lowest possible cost.”

Reading between the lines of his Post #1, he purchased “points are points” contracts at resorts other than Rhode Island and is now concerned about availability to use these “points are points” in the standard reservation window.  (ARP regret?)

He did not specify what size units he wants to reserve at Rhode Island, which is a critical consideration for whether Advance Reservation Priority is needed or not.  Understandable that new owners do not know all the questions to ask.


Although MisterMoregore has already made purchases, posting his timeshare goals using the “What to Buy” questionnaire

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-to-buy-questions-for-newbies.208742/

and directing it to the Wyndham forum, since that is where he purchased, would definitely help Wyndham owners with experience help him to maximize his new ownership and offer constructive recommendations if he cannot reserve the units he wants at 10 months.


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 7, 2018)

Newport is one of my favorite destinations, which is how I ended up on this thread, though derailed. IMHO Newport Onshore is your best location, but with the most fixed week ownership - hardest to get through points in the summertime - easier off season. Wyndham Long Wharf is your next best bet if you want larger than a 1 bedroom. It is easier to get a summer unit there, and the location is also pretty good. Inn on the Harbor and Inn on Long Wharf are located by both and are strictly 1 bedroom units. If that works for you, you get a water view in a great location with a kitchenette. Those are usually summertime possibilities. Parking is included for one spot in all, and that in itself is a plus in summertime Newport.

Jamestown is NOT near Newport - you will need to drive and pay bridge tolls and find parking. I know there are others, but I have not stayed at them and I do not think they are in the little town of Newport most tourists expect. You would need to drive.


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## antjmar (Aug 8, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> Inn on the Harbor and Inn on Long Wharf are located by both and are strictly 1 bedroom units.



We Love Newport! Lots of good advice here!
Ill just add that the 1 bedroom "plus" at the Inn on the harbor sleeps up to 6. Most 1 bedrooms only sleep 4. This is a small room but if you want Newport in the Summer this is a bargain!   Its only 126k Points for a summer week!


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## schoolmarm (Aug 8, 2018)

skotrla said:


> OK, here goes a post with more specific resorts -
> 
> An owner owns 500K points in San Francisco @ $3.50/1K but they only go to Atlantic City where maintenance is $6.50/1K.
> 
> ...



Well, ok, except for the fact that it would be very rare to need ARP to book Atlantic City. Those of us who regularly use the reservation system know this. Those who have not used the reservation system don't. I DID use ARP to book the 4 BR Presidential once for attending a conference, and then downgraded it to the 2 BR Presidential when I realized that I wasn't bringing as many guests as I thought.  Guess what...NO ONE reserved the 4 BR after I cancelled it a good 4-5 months before the reservation. NO ONE!  It was empty!  In fact, with the exception of the weekend, there were only two other units occupied in the Penthouse suites. Maybe it's different in the summer, though.

Scott, Wyndham is much more simple than you make it out with your numeric analysis...it is also more complicated due to the way the points are individually structured by week/season/unit size/weekday-weekend. Experienced owners know these nuances. And I really think that you are confusing newer owners or those who are considering buying Wyndham.  

I'm so glad that MaryBella responded here, because most of us know that Newport is a little tricky, but not impossible to book.  These are smaller resorts that have many fixed-week owners. I would like to go there sometime.  Thank you, MaryBella, for your good information.


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 8, 2018)

HitchHiker71 said:


> AFAIK, I have 210k CWA developer points, and 508k PIC points annually.  All of those points qualify as CWA points for ARP.  My MFs on those 508k PIC points are $1591.00 annually this year, plus 0.58/1000 points for the fees, for a total of $1885.64.  I'm at $3.71/1000 points on MFs for the PIC contracts, and $5.77 plus fees for my 210k points.  I therefore have ARP at 66 resorts across all 718k annual points if I'm understanding things correctly?


There is so much going on in this thread that I got lost figuring out if you were corrected on a part of your statement.  You will be allowed ARP in a given year at the CWA resorts for up 210K points.  The other 508 have no ARP benefits associated with them.  Try to make a reservation in 2019 at 12 months for more than 210K points.  The system won't let you.  You can run the points calculator to prove this, as well.  210K will give you a nice vacation at locations where demand is very high during certain seasons, like those in Rhode Island.  And, the 508K will serve you well when booking at 10 months in most locations.


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## paxsarah (Aug 8, 2018)

Cyrus24 said:


> There is so much going on in this thread that I got lost figuring out if you were corrected on a part of your statement.  You will be allowed ARP in a given year at the CWA resorts for up 210K points.  The other 508 have no ARP benefits associated with them.  Try to make a reservation in 2019 at 12 months for more than 210K points.  The system won't let you.  You can run the points calculator to prove this, as well.  210K will give you a nice vacation at locations where demand is very high during certain seasons, like those in Rhode Island.  And, the 508K will serve you well when booking at 10 months in most locations.



Question from a non-VIP - could those 508k PIC points be used for RARP by gold and above at 11 months?


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## Cyrus24 (Aug 8, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> Question from a non-VIP - could those 508k PIC points be used for RARP by gold and above at 11 months?


I seldom use ARP and have never used RARP so I can't answer this.  My instincts would say that they can't be used, but, I do not have personal knowledge.  Maybe someone else with RARP experience can answer.


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## Braindead (Aug 8, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> Question from a non-VIP - could those 508k PIC points be used for RARP by gold and above at 11 months?


I don’t think so from what I can tell. Once I get past 10 months out my points available doesn’t change. If I’m in RARP period it shows it as available and when I get farther out the RARP option drops off. You can only use ARP available points for RARP. Since converted weeks or PIC points have no ARP attached they will not show up as available points beyond 10 months using the points calculator.


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 8, 2018)

antjmar said:


> We Love Newport! Lots of good advice here!
> Ill just add that the 1 bedroom "plus" at the Inn on the harbor sleeps up to 6. Most 1 bedrooms only sleep 4. This is a small room but if you want Newport in the Summer this is a bargain!   Its only 126k Points for a summer week!



I need to use that advice for my future Newport vacations. We always skip because we need a 2 bedroom, but a 1 bedroom sleeping 6 will work!


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## MaryBella7 (Aug 8, 2018)

schoolmarm said:


> Well, ok, except for the fact that it would be very rare to need ARP to book Atlantic City. Those of us who regularly use the reservation system know this. Those who have not used the reservation system don't. I DID use ARP to book the 4 BR Presidential once for attending a conference, and then downgraded it to the 2 BR Presidential when I realized that I wasn't bringing as many guests as I thought.  Guess what...NO ONE reserved the 4 BR after I cancelled it a good 4-5 months before the reservation. NO ONE!  It was empty!  In fact, with the exception of the weekend, there were only two other units occupied in the Penthouse suites. Maybe it's different in the summer, though.
> 
> Scott, Wyndham is much more simple than you make it out with your numeric analysis...it is also more complicated due to the way the points are individually structured by week/season/unit size/weekday-weekend. Experienced owners know these nuances. And I really think that you are confusing newer owners or those who are considering buying Wyndham.
> 
> I'm so glad that MaryBella responded here, because most of us know that Newport is a little tricky, but not impossible to book.  These are smaller resorts that have many fixed-week owners. I would like to go there sometime.  Thank you, MaryBella, for your good information.



We go to Newport multiple times yearly, and as you can see, still do not know everything. I have lots of suggestions if you ever want to PM me. We really adore the area!


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## pagosajim (Aug 9, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> Question from a non-VIP - could those 508k PIC points be used for RARP by gold and above at 11 months?



I just recently did this for 3 units at BC that totaled a little more than my non-PIC points.


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## Braindead (Aug 9, 2018)

pagosajim said:


> I just recently did this for 3 units at BC that totaled a little more than my non-PIC points.


Did you have to call in?
I tried online and get the Not Enough Points response
It will not let me exceed my total ARP points available


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## pagosajim (Aug 11, 2018)

Braindead said:


> Did you have to call in?
> I tried online and get the Not Enough Points response
> It will not let me exceed my total ARP points available


When I tried to make a 4th reservation using RARP it claimed I didn't have enough points for the transaction, even though I did.  I think it's a weak message back that's really indicative of having used up all my RARP privileges.

Edited to add: this was all done online.

Edited again to add: I had exceeded my CWP point allotment with the first 3-reservation set of transactions.  Some of my PIC points were used to complete the 3rd reservation.


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## Braindead (Aug 11, 2018)

pagosajim said:


> When I tried to make a 4th reservation using RARP it claimed I didn't have enough points for the transaction, even though I did.  I think it's a weak message back that's really indicative of having used up all my RARP privileges.
> 
> Edited to add: this was all done online.
> 
> Edited again to add: I had exceeded my CWP point allotment with the first 3-reservation set of transactions.  Some of my PIC points were used to complete the 3rd reservation.


I can understand that you went over your CWP point allotment because points are blind.

My question is.
Did the system allow you to go over your ARP point allocation to make the RARP reservation?


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## pagosajim (Aug 12, 2018)

Braindead said:


> I can understand that you went over your CWP point allotment because points are blind.
> 
> My question is.
> Did the system allow you to go over your ARP point allocation to make the RARP reservation?



My max ARP would have been 562k points for one particular resort.  The total for these 3 reservations was ~918k points.   It doesn't look like total ARP points deeded at any particular resort (or even of the PIC variety) applies to RARP.


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## chapjim (Dec 8, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> I need to use that advice for my future Newport vacations. We always skip because we need a 2 bedroom, but a 1 bedroom sleeping 6 will work!



I can't imagine six people and only one bath.


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## MaryBella7 (Dec 8, 2018)

chapjim said:


> I can't imagine six people and only one bath.



It would only be 4, but my kids can't sleep on the same bed. The one bedroom that sleeps six would be points savings over a 2BR withou putting the kids in one bed.

Oh, and when I visited this summer, I stopped in to see if the 2 bedrooms that sleep 6 face the water. None of them do. Just an FYI.


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## chapjim (Dec 8, 2018)

MaryBella7 said:


> It would only be 4, but my kids can't sleep on the same bed. The one bedroom that sleeps six would be points savings over a 2BR withou putting the kids in one bed.
> 
> Oh, and when I visited this summer, I stopped in to see if the 2 bedrooms that sleep 6 face the water. None of them do. Just an FYI.



I still can't imagine six people and only one bath.  But, I guess the designer can.


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## kaljor (Dec 9, 2018)

I booked a June 2019 week at Inn at Long Wharf during the last week of August this year.  Yes it was at about 10 months, but I did have a choice of June dates.  Admittedly that's just anecdotal evidence, but I mention it only because I wasn't even thinking about the ten month thing, I was just browsing places I might want to go to next summer.  

I do acknowledge that a recurring event week will probably not be available at 10 months, but that's the stuff we have to learn over time in order to get the most from our ownership.  Don't assume.  And if you want a week that you believe might be tough to get, keep checking it at 11 months out for availability, and if it's still there when the 10 month point arrives, jump on it.  You can always cancel it if your circumstances change.


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## OutSkiing (Dec 9, 2018)

paxsarah said:


> I would check at midnight at 10 months exactly.


Yes .. this is what we do and it has worked in the past at various resorts.
And then again as the travel time gets closer, people will cancel as well.

Bob


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