# Biggest Sucker Here



## FooledMeOnce (Sep 20, 2012)

That's me.  The biggest sucker here.

My wife and are the not so proud owners of a 9600 point, 3 bedroom gold HGVC timeshare in Myrtle Beach that we ("we" is used generously since my wife was the buyer) paid 40K for.  And yeah, we simply paid for it since we had the funds.  

Dumbest financial move ever.  There are a few excuses I can make.  

The biggest is they simply lied to us.  I didn't have a computer with internet access during the presentation, and when I asked about re-sale, the "manager" told us HGVC had right of first purchase on all sales, and wouldn't let the prices drop if we wanted to sell in the future.  He said they would buy it back from us first to protect prices.  I even asked him what would happen if we found the system didn't work for us and that we'd be willing to list it at 30K.  He said Hilton would buy it back at that price.  Should have gotten that in writing!  I was still skeptical, but he assured us that because they reserved the right to first purchase, he could check to see what the least expensive HGVC week with a similar number of points, was going for on the market.  He came back 10 minutes later to explain that lowest priced deed with the same number of points was "In Las Vegas and was priced higher than what he was selling Myrtle Beach Units for that day."  The reason, according to him, was that they hadn't yet renovated the Myrtle Beach location, and that our low price was to help fund the renovation.  He said they'd be ripping out the current pools at the Anderson Club and doubling them in size, and that they would be bringing all the other exterior amenities up to the same standard as the other Hilton location we'd stayed at in Myrtle Beach.   Sadly, I actually believed him.  I figured Hilton was a reputable company.   

My wife really loved the idea of joining because we have friends who are HGVC owners.  The summer before, they said they had extra points on their time share, and invited us to join them at Hilton's Myrtle Beach Hotel.  They didn't want us to chip in, and told us it was all on their club points.  They were being very nice, I later learned.  It wasn't just their HGVC points, it was a huge number of HH points they'd received for business travels.  

I know there is no prize for being the biggest sucker on the board.  Besides, it's already paid for so I view it as a sunk cost.  I would like to know how much of a loss should I expect to take on this?  Could I keep it down to 70%?   I called one of the brokers listed on this site, but nobody picked up.

Thanks,
Todd


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## timeos2 (Sep 20, 2012)

Unfortunately you have figured it out. With a great deal of effort and possibly the help of a reliable reseller you may get 20-25% of purchase price LESS the hefty commission. And it may take quite awhile to find a buyer. 

If you want/need to get it sold quickly figure 5-10% of retail paid and you can do that yourself with low cost or free ads & a discount closing. Hilton may exercise ROFR if the price is super low - but often they do not.  

It was a total waste of money to have paid retail - all timeshare actually is. At resale, and considering the annual fees that will be due, only resale makes any financial sense in the timeshare world. A tough lesson learned but at least you didn't finance it and suffer all that interest cost on top of a bad purchase decision. 

Good luck. Many others have been in your shoes or worse. Take you loss and move on now. Water over the bridge at this point.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 20, 2012)

*The Old ROFR Bushwa -- It Keeps Working So They Keep Slinging It.*




FooledMeOnce said:


> I didn't have a computer with internet access during the presentation, and when I asked about re-sale, the "manager" told us HGVC had right of first purchase on all sales, and wouldn't let the prices drop if we wanted to sell in the future.  He said they would buy it back from us first to protect prices.


Right Of 1st Refusal is optional with timeshare companies which retain that prerogative.  Even when they have ROFR, they don't have to invoke it unless they want to when it suits them (not you). 

Plus, nothing about ROFR keeps prices from dropping like a boulder.  All that happens when the bottom falls out of the market is that when you sell your timeshare for a pittance, only the timeshare company gets to buy it at that low price.  The seller still gets only the pittance.  

When they say they use ROFR to keep resale prices from going "too low," it's not the price you get for selling that they're referring to.  

What they mean is that if the market ever rebounds, they want to rig resales so that they can grab'm up cheap & resell'm themselves for more.  That is, they don't want the general public to be able to buy cheap resales, only the timeshare company itself. 

ROFR = ROFL 

Always did.  

Still does. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## Passepartout (Sep 20, 2012)

timeos2 said:


> Good luck. Many others have been in your shoes or worse. Take you loss and move on now. Water *over* the bridge at this point.



Actually it's water *under* the bridge, or *over* the dam, but who's looking. 

OP, you aren't the first to have bought retail after a slick salesweasel expertly massaged the facts. HGVC is a great system and has wonderful resorts. You have already lost about as much money as you are ever going to, so you may as well keep and use your timeshare. You saw value in the purchase when you bought it, and the fact that it depreciated sharply and could be bought on the resale market don't make it less so.

Stick around TUG. Learn to use what you own to your best advantage for some great vacations. Many owners here bought retail, and the vast majority you'll meet at the resorts did the same.

So accept the fact that you performed exactly as their sales manual said you would, and move on. Enjoy lots of great vacations and when you feel you've gotten your value from it, list it with Judi or Seth Nock's brokerage and sell for what you can get. They are TUGgers and fair.

Welcome to TUG and best regards.

Jim


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## K2Quick (Sep 20, 2012)

FooledMeOnce said:


> That's me.  The biggest sucker here.



You're not the _biggest_ sucker - just _another_ sucker.  If it weren't for a bunch of suckers, there would be no timeshare resorts.  Furthermore, you've done it once and learned your lesson.  There are plenty of people who buy multiple units from the developer.


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## Purseval (Sep 20, 2012)

FooledMeOnce said:


> That's me.  The biggest sucker here.
> 
> My wife and are the not so proud owners of a 9600 point, 3 bedroom gold HGVC timeshare in Myrtle Beach that we ("we" is used generously since my wife was the buyer) paid 40K for.  And yeah, we simply paid for it since we had the funds.



You don't say when you bought it.  If it was recently you may still have time to rescind.  Check your contract.


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## Weimaraner (Sep 20, 2012)

Think of it like buying a new car - you lose money on it the second you drive off the lot. Enjoy your timeshare and get the most use out of it possible like you do a car. You have many years to enjoy it unless you have to sell because  you can't afford it. Turn this into a positive and you'll have many happy memories from your travels.


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## GregT (Sep 20, 2012)

The good news is that you've bought into a great system and will enjoy the time with the HGVC properties.   You can do alot with 9,600 points and you may find that you buy more weeks resale off of eBay.

Welcome to TUG and don't like the price tag stop you from enjoying your new purchase!

Best,

Greg


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## MichaelColey (Sep 20, 2012)

If you're within the recension period (typically 7-10 days depending on location), rescind immediately and do some research on buying resale.

If it's too late to rescind, do some research about HGVC and figure out if you want to take the loss immediately or just get the most out of what you now own.  It's a good system and excellent properties.  Don't make a second hasty decision without proper research.  There's no downside (assuming it's already too late to rescind) to continuing to own it for a few days or weeks or months while you figure things out.

You're far from the only one here who bought at full retail.  Some of us found TUG soon enough to rescind.  Others didn't.  But we all love timesharing and have learned to get the most out of what we own.


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## Paumavista (Sep 20, 2012)

*Moving on.......*



Passepartout said:


> Actually it's water *under* the bridge, or *over* the dam, but who's looking.
> 
> OP, you aren't the first to have bought retail after a slick salesweasel expertly massaged the facts. HGVC is a great system and has wonderful resorts. You have already lost about as much money as you are ever going to, so you may as well keep and use your timeshare. You saw value in the purchase when you bought it, and the fact that it depreciated sharply and could be bought on the resale market don't make it less so.
> 
> ...



Couldn't have said it better..................... 

So now you've found TUG....many (maybe most) on this site have bought retail weeks or points at some point.  You are NOT alone!!!  The great thing is that you CAN learn how to get the most out of your purchase.  You can do most of the other things the salesman probably told you about vacationing if you learn the nuances and strategy here at TUG.  

So start enjoying your purchase (you probably wouldn't have been looking to sell right away anyway......so it's like my upside down house thats lost half its value.... .).  Take a great vacation to a wonderful resort.  Join II or RCI and grab a last minute deal.  Move on from the loss and ENJOY  - life's too short to worry about things you can't change.


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## colatown (Sep 20, 2012)

In SC you have 5 days to rescind. I also made the mistake of buying at Anderson Ocean Club in May and know I made a mistake, fortunately it was 16.1K not 40.
I will just live with it and try to enjoy the places I visit.


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## presley (Sep 20, 2012)

9600 points is a lot of points.  If you think of the purchase as buying a vacation home, the $40K will be easier to accept.  I know you could have bought at a much reduced price on the resale market, but it sounds like you are in a hurry to dump the whole thing at a loss.  Why?  Are you not able to take vacations?  HGVC is one of the better systems and the resorts are much nicer than most TSs.  Rather than kick yourself and sell at a loss, why not use it and enjoy it?


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## DazedandConfused (Sep 20, 2012)

$40,000 is a lot of money these days, heck, you can buy full ownership condos for almost that price.

If you can get out via cancellation without penalty, then do it ASAP.

If you are past the rescission period, then learn to use the system.

I would probably NOT immediately sell it for a loss as you can do that in the future.


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## FooledMeOnce (Sep 20, 2012)

Thanks Everyone. Nice to have some company, although sorry for those of you ....

We bought a year ago and haven't really been able to use the system well, so my wife is very frustrated.  I think we'll go to Orlanda and take the kids to Disney in January, and then go back to the Anderson Club and see if they made any of the upgrades they told us were going to happen.

I think my level of frustration isn't so much with the product, or even with the blatant lies we were told.  I'm mad at myself for not checking the facts in time.  When he told me the lowest priced units on the market were priced higher, I should have confirmed it.     

As you all have pointed out, lesson learned, water "over" the bridge ...
Nice to have found this site.  Should help us enjoy the points for a few years.


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## SOS8260456 (Sep 20, 2012)

I would only consider you the biggest sucker if you didn't learn to use what you purchased.

Like others have said, if it is not too late, then rescind and do your research.

However, if it is too late, then consider the $40,000 money well spent on future vacations and PRICELESS memories.

I am not advocating purchasing from the developer.  And, YES, you should be given a swat on the head for making a big financial decision like that without doing at least 5 minutes of research of your own on the internet.  However, I consider the biggest suckers the ones who purchase when they can't afford it and the ones who purchase and don't take the time to learn how to use effectively what they purchased.

Good Luck with whatever happens!


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## SmithOp (Sep 20, 2012)

FooledMeOnce said:


> Thanks Everyone. Nice to have some company, although sorry for those of you ....
> 
> We bought a year ago and haven't really been able to use the system well, so my wife is very frustrated.  I think we'll go to Orlanda and take the kids to Disney in January, and then go back to the Anderson Club and see if they made any of the upgrades they told us were going to happen.



We are in almost as much as you in sunk costs, but have enjoyed many vacations and looking forward to many more, learn how to use what you have.  My last purchase was resale, trying dollar cost averaging to take the sting out of the developer purchase 

Don't hold your breath on the upgrades, when I purchased HHV in 2001 they were talking about replacing the pool with a new super pool, well it wasn't until they expanded and built Grand Waikikian 8 years later.


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## pianodinosaur (Sep 20, 2012)

We have Elite Plus status.  That means we purchased direct before learning about TUG.  The good news is that HGVC has really worked out well for us.  We have been having great vacations together since 2001.  The resale market would not exist without people like us who initially purchased direct.  My advice to the OP is to learn the HGVC system and enjoy some vacation time.


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## FooledMeOnce (Sep 20, 2012)

I told my wife about this site, and we'll try to get the most out of our points.
Clearly it was a lemon of an investment, but I'll take your advice and we'll try to make lemonade out of it.  
You guys have helped me a lot.
Thanks


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## falmouth3 (Sep 20, 2012)

Not a good "investment" but it will allow you wonderful vacations.  My husband was furious when I bid on and won a TS on ebay.  We've had about 2 TS vacations a year and we are not regretting it at all.


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## Htoo0 (Sep 21, 2012)

Just another one to say you've only joined the crowd-not set the standard. As advised, learn to use it. Don't feel too bad, some people are paying much more than that for an education and aren't getting much of a return on the investment. Look at it as learning experience instead of a bad timeshare deal.


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## justnosy (Sep 21, 2012)

*kids+timeshare+vacations=priceless!!!*

How old are your kids?  My kids are now 14, 11 and 11 and they absolutely love timeshares!  The first time they stayed in a hotel they kept asking where the second room and bathroom were!!!

Like all the other TUG posters say - learn to use the system - you'll get some great vacations! 

Definitely spend some time on TUG gathering information.  If you plan on vacationing during school holidays, you definitely need to plan ahead! I usually make plans 8months - one year ahead.

oh yeah - I bought retail/developer not once but twice!!!  The second time was after I found TUG...so you really didn't "win" - you just joined the crowd - maybe the majority??


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## SYB (Sep 21, 2012)

I am currently sitting at the Anderson/HGVC watching the sun rise!  

We are HGVC owners of about 5 years and yes there have been times I thought the initial price a waste of money and I would only buy resale in the future but it has pushed us to take some really nice vacations!

We did the "owners update" on Wednesday here are Myrtle Beach but declined to buy more points.  We were told that this may become a "destination" resort which means it will be harder to get a reservation if my ownership is not at this resort.  However, we still declined.  

Learning the system takes time but once you understand it you can do good things with your points.  Call the reservation people and get their help.  They are very nice.  I asked a lot of questions the first year.  Back then we didn't have the website either.  

Make the most of what you have and don't let the "buyer's remorse" keep you from some great vacations.  We have done RCI exchanges in Aruba and Barbados.  Without the points we might not have gone to those locations.  Having a kitchen can help keep the costs down for your vacation too.  We have also done exchanges in VA and CA.   The HGVC locations we have used include Hawaii, Las Vegas and all 3 in Orlando and now Myrtle Beach.  

If you are going to Orlando, we really like the Sea World location as far as number of people that can fit into a unit (bed sizes).  However, the Parc Soleil  is a beautiful property too.  

Keep working at learning the system, enjoy what you have!


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## FooledMeOnce (Sep 21, 2012)

Thanks.
What is a destination resort as opposed to a non-destination resort?
Thanks,
Todd


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## Talent312 (Sep 21, 2012)

FooledMeOnce said:


> What is a destination resort as opposed to a non-destination resort?



It's not a term used in the system, but by salespeep to suggest a resort is in "high demand" where club reservations can be difficult. The salesperp was saying, "Buy here to get a 'home week' advantage, instead of competing with the unwashed masses making 'club' reservations."

An example of a high-demand destination: Hilton Hawaiian Village. To make a club reservation, you should book right at the 9-month mark. Myrtle Beach may be a nice, but sorry, its not a hot-spot.

Many HGVC members never darken the door of their home resort, choosing instead to travel about with club and RCI bookings.


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## barond (Sep 21, 2012)

Welcome to the HGVC Retail Support Group.  I just got off the phone myself with HGVC telling them I would not take their latest great deal to come down to las vegas/orlando even if its "free" and only 60 minutes of my time.  I bought retail and not only would I never fall for that again I will never go to another timeshare sales meeting as long as I live no matter how good it sounds.  "Essentially free"  is not good enough for me.

for just $99 I could stay at orlando/las vegas 1 bedroom for 3 nights and they would give me $100 certificate to stay at a hilton hotel for just 60 minutes of my time.  No thanks.  I'm good.

Baron


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## piyooshj (Sep 21, 2012)

barond said:


> Welcome to the HGVC Retail Support Group.  I just got off the phone myself with HGVC telling them I would not take their latest great deal to come down to las vegas/orlando even if its "free" and only 60 minutes of my time.  I bought retail and not only would I never fall for that again I will never go to another timeshare sales meeting as long as I live no matter how good it sounds.  "Essentially free"  is not good enough for me.
> 
> for just $99 I could stay at orlando/las vegas 1 bedroom for 3 nights and they would give me $100 certificate to stay at a hilton hotel for just 60 minutes of my time.  No thanks.  I'm good.
> 
> Baron



Last few times I had been to presentation I told them I'm here to look at the resort and enjoy your free gift. I dont have money to purchase.

Some salesman even went to the extent and calling "you guys are dogs" I reverted your guys are sharks and will you sell this to your mother with straight face?

Usually they let me out in 30-45 mins with the promised gift . Having said that we've still avoided sales presentation last couple of years and wife would never let us waste that supposedly 60 mins during our vacation.


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## PamMo (Sep 21, 2012)

FooledMeOnce, you definitely shouldn't feel like the biggest sucker out there! I've met many people who plunked down $60K+ for timeshares that are worth less than your Hilton timeshare on the resale market. The nice thing is that you bought into a great system, that will provide you with lots of options for wonderful vacations with your family - once you take the time to learn the system. We're closing on an 8,400 HGVC points timeshare right now - and can't wait to use it!

Don't give up on HGVC yet. Join TUG, research and ask lots of questions, learn the ins and outs of how to use your timeshare in HGVC and trading through RCI (9,600 points can be used for two or more weeks in some very nice RCI resorts), and I think you and your wife might become VERY happy with your ownership! We own several timeshares, and I can say without a doubt, they have been the BEST personal investment we've made for our family. They "force" us to take fantastic vacations in wonderful places around the world.  It just takes some knowledge and planning.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 21, 2012)

*I Resemble That Remark.*




PamMo said:


> I've met many people who plunked down $60K+ for timeshares that are worth less than your Hilton timeshare on the resale market.


One January in Florida we met a vacationing retired Iowa farmer who was extremely pleased to have just completed a full-freight 1*,*000*,*000-point "equity consolidation" at Wyndham Bonnet Creek Resort. 

Nobody wanted to rain on his parade, so nobody said anything. 

Truth to tell, however, he was had bigtime by contrast with buying the same thing or the equivalent (or something even better) resale. 

So it goes. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## DazedandConfused (Sep 21, 2012)

Out of curiosity what are typical resale prices (and annual dues) for a 2 or 3 bedroom HGVC?

Other than people that want a specific home resort priority, is there a best location to buy in terms of low resale price and low annual dues for someone that is not concerned with home resort location.


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## piyooshj (Sep 21, 2012)

DazedandConfused said:


> Out of curiosity what are typical resale prices (and annual dues) for a 2 or 3 bedroom HGVC?
> 
> Other than people that want a specific home resort priority, is there a best location to buy in terms of low resale price and low annual dues for someone that is not concerned with home resort location.



Las Vegas and Orlando both have low mfs and price.


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## SYB (Sep 22, 2012)

FooledMeOnce said:


> Thanks.
> What is a destination resort as opposed to a non-destination resort?
> Thanks,
> Todd



Apparently with a "destination resort" the window for those who don't own at that resort is only 45 days out instead of the normal 9 month window.


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## Talent312 (Sep 22, 2012)

sybwhb said:


> Apparently with a "destination resort" the window for those who don't own at that resort is only 45 days out instead of the normal 9 month window.



That could be what was salesperp was implying. However, AFAIK, the only _destination_ to which this limited window applies (so far) is NYC's "West 57th Street. Even Kingsland with it's inflated point-chart has a 276-day window.
.


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## AwayWeGo (Sep 22, 2012)

*Why I Never Call'm Suckers.*




FooledMeOnce said:


> That's me.  The biggest sucker here.
> 
> My wife and are the not so proud owners of a 9600 point, 3 bedroom gold HGVC timeshare in Myrtle Beach that we ("we" is used generously since my wife was the buyer) paid 40K for.  And yeah, we simply paid for it since we had the funds.
> 
> Dumbest financial move ever.  There are a few excuses I can make.


You are not the only full-freight purchaser to feel that way.  

However that may be, there are some timeshare owners who paid full freight who still don't get it -- who twist themselves into pretzels (figuratively speaking) in their efforts to justify the unjustifiable & rationalize the irrational (their full-freight purchases). 

For that reason, I guard against using the term you used _-- sucker --_ to characterize full-freight timeshare owners.  

I used that term once in a TUG-BBS entry that a full-freight owner found offensive -- he or she complained & called me out on it right here on TUG-BBS.  I explained, in a semi-apologetic way, that I was slam-dunking the timeshare companies, not criticizing the timeshare buyers, & no lasting harm was done.  

Since then, I have mended my ways regarding use of the word, though not in my belief that the biz plan of the timeshare companies is based not only on razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo, but also on deliberately targeting the (large) segment of the public that knows zippity-doodah about timeshares & that can be fast-talked into thinking it makes sense to pay major money for timeshare deeds, having no clue that the same thing (or the equivalent, or something even better) can be bought resale for pennies on the full-freight dollar. 

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​


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## TheWizz (Sep 28, 2012)

FooledMeOnce said:


> Thanks Everyone. Nice to have some company, although sorry for those of you ....
> 
> We bought a year ago and haven't really been able to use the system well, so my wife is very frustrated.  I think we'll go to Orlanda and take the kids to Disney in January, and then go back to the Anderson Club and see if they made any of the upgrades they told us were going to happen.
> 
> ...



As others have stated, the only thing that would make this purchase a "bad investment" is if you don't learn how to use/manipulate/enjoy the HGVC system.  There are SO MANY options and ideas on how to use your points besides the select list of HGVC resorts.  Here's a few:

Use your points for night/week rentals from thousands of RCI resorts
Convert your HGVC Points to Hilton HHonors Points for high-value resort options
ClubPerk travels like cruises, airline travel, etc.

As you can see, you can use your HGVC Points for many purposes, other than just timeshare travel to a HGVC resort.  I converted my HGVC Points to HHonors points last year so that we could stay in Times Square at the Double Tree for New Year's and watch the ball drop.  While converting to HHonors normally isn't the best "value" for your HGVC points, the 37,500 points per night is a good value when the EOY rates for a room are $750-1000 per night.  And on tug I have heard of many folks that have used their points for cruises.  So my advice to you would be to review many of the hundreds of posts of tug dealing with "learning the system" and start enjoying your HGVC ownership...


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