# Neighbor fence problem



## Amy (Jun 10, 2012)

I have a low (less than 5 ft high) light grey fence around my backyard.  Until recently, we could see over our backyard to a huge undeveloped grassy lawn in the back -- it lies between the houses on our street and the houses on the street set far beyond that green lot.  From our kitchen window, we used to be able to see the back side of the house that lies on the other side of the green space; that house did not have a back fence so it just looked like a huge park lies between our properties.  Our neighbors on this street told us that the owner of the back parcels had intended to develop an entire new street at some point but it had not happened in 20+ years (due in part to family disagreement and development costs).  So we just hoped that the area would continue to remain undeveloped.

Recently, some of the back parcels were sold along with the house that is in the direct line of sight from my backyard/kitchen window.  I heard (but have not verified) that their lot now consists of the equivalent of roughly 4+ "normal" lots.  (A normal lot around here is about 1/4 acre.)  And the new owners decided to fence off their entire property.  I was disappointed when I learned that, but I can understand and respect someone's desire for privacy.  I wasn't as upset as my next door neighbor because they don't even have a back fence and now, 25+ years after living in that house, they are getting a fence on their back border.  

But then I noticed that the new neighbor is installing a very high fence, so high that it tops our back fence by about 2 1/2 feet.  I was busy all last week and worked late into the evening, so I didn't notice until this weekend that the fence has been completed and my back fence area now looks really ugly.  I've never seen two fences of different styles/colors/heights on a back yard before; generally if one neighbor puts up a fence it is just shared with the other neighbor.  

I hate it.  And my immediate thought yesterday morning was to walk over there and ask them to do something.  I didn't know what; I was just feeling upset.  (They have never come by to introduce themselves and tell us their plans.)

Then I thought maybe we should ask if they'd be willing to paint their fence (the side that faces us) the same color as our existing fence, to make the back fence area look less unsightly.  But I really don't have any ground to insist on such a thing other than that it would have been the more considerate and neighborly thing to do (and what I would have offered to do if I had decided not to share my back neighbor's fence, though that isn't something that I could imagine doing.)

Then I wondered -- what would I do if they flat out said no?  Would I just stew about that be mad at my neighbor  whenever I look out that way?  I intend to live here for a long time (hopefully at least until my kids are off to college).  

And would painting that fence really make  my backyard look better?  I'll still have two completely different  looking fences on the back border.  

So next I thought maybe we should just suck it up and spend the $ to replace  just that back portion of our fence so the height matches their fence.   (We can't even just get rid of our back fence since they left a gap in between the two fences and I think that gap = their property.)  But of course the fact that I felt compelled to spend more $ to fix this problem is upsetting as well. 

I'm wondering if I'm being overly sensitive about this.  It bothers DH as well but he isn't as upset as I am.  Would others care?  More importantly, would not doing anything about this affect resale value later on down the road?

I'm hoping wise Tuggers can give me some advice.  What is my best option here?   

Here is a current photo:


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## heathpack (Jun 11, 2012)

Amy said:


> I have a low (less than 5 ft high) light grey fence around my backyard.  Until recently, we could see over our backyard to a huge undeveloped grassy lawn in the back -- it lies between the houses on our street and the houses on the street set far beyond that green lot.  From our kitchen window, we used to be able to see the back side of the house that lies on the other side of the green space; that house did not have a back fence so it just looked like a huge park lies between our properties.  Our neighbors on this street told us that the owner of the back parcels had intended to develop an entire new street at some point but it had not happened in 20+ years (due in part to family disagreement and development costs).  So we just hoped that the area would continue to remain undeveloped.
> 
> Recently, some of the back parcels were sold along with the house that is in the direct line of sight from my backyard/kitchen window.  I heard (but have not verified) that their lot now consists of the equivalent of roughly 4+ "normal" lots.  (A normal lot around here is about 1/4 acre.)  And the new owners decided to fence off their entire property.  I was disappointed when I learned that, but I can understand and respect someone's desire for privacy.  I wasn't as upset as my next door neighbor because they don't even have a back fence and now, 25+ years after living in that house, they are getting a fence on their back border.
> 
> ...



First off, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think it looks that bad.  They handled it in an in-neighborly way for sure, however.

But it does seem very tall.  First, I would look at local building codes and see if it perhaps too tall.  If it is, you could force them to re-do it, if you are game for the conflict.

If you want your side of the fence painted, you'd probably have better luck asking if you could have it painted yourself.  And then reprinted on the same schedule you reprint your own.

Perhaps a better solution is to come up with some sort of decorative extension to your own fence to make it as tall as their's.

How much space is there between the 2 fences?  Is there enough room for the space between to even be maintained?  I am picturing big ugly weeds growing that no one can get to.  Maybe there is actually a few feet of space in between?

Or plant a rampant vine on your fence that will eventually grow onto theirs and pull both down, lol, the "mutually assured destruction" option.  Here in So Cal your aim could be accomplished with creeping fig.  Not sure in PacificNorthwest, maybe wisteria?

H


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## klynn (Jun 11, 2012)

What is your city ordinance regarding fences?


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## Amy (Jun 11, 2012)

heathpack:  Thanks for the suggestions.  I actually haven't looked close enough to know the distance between the two fences.  You make a good point about weeds.  I'll take a look tomorrow.

Klynn:  I don't know.  I think you need to get a permit if over a certain height; but that likely just means a fee.  I'll go check.


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## debraxh (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm not crazy about the look of the two different fences either.  As long as the height of theirs is within limits, then I would consider just taking down your fence.  So what if you "gain" a few inches of their property? It's not like you built the fence on their line.  Also like the suggestion of some sort of vine, although that will take longer to cover the difference. Good luck.


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## Passepartout (Jun 11, 2012)

Not crazy about the look of 2 fences together. If it was me, I think I'd remove my lower fence and landscape up to the neighbor's. I might go over and see if it would be OK to stain the side you look at if it wouldn't clash with however they are finishing their side. Maybe they are going to stain the whole thing anyway.

Planting some hostas or rhodies would soften the look some. You'll get used to it.

BTW, I LIKE your back yard. Very inviting.

Jim


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## ScoopKona (Jun 11, 2012)

Take your fence down next time it needs to be painted. Let THEM maintain their fence. You don't have to. One less thing to worry about, if you ask me.


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## Zac495 (Jun 11, 2012)

Definitely take yours down. And I like the idea of  being able to stain it the color that works for you - of course they could say no - but if you ask nicely and say of course you'll maintain it, they may be fine with it.


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## Patri (Jun 11, 2012)

My first thought too. Take down your fence. Use theirs as a backdrop to your beautiful yard.


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## silverfox82 (Jun 11, 2012)

Their fence will likely weather to a nice grey over time and I agree that taking yours down will improve the look. What's that old saying? tall fences make for good neighbors.


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## jlr10 (Jun 11, 2012)

I agree, take it down, and ask to stain your side.  The worst thing that could happen is they said no (which I doubt) and you get a good reason to go and meet your new neighbors.  We have had fences replaced on all sides of our house and have contributed to the cost and upkeep of the fences on every occassion.

As to the height issue it appears to be a same height as the fences in our neighborhood, but feel free to check the ordinance.  Although a less than 5 foot foot fence is nice if you have a view, it does not provide privacy between neighbors, and will not keep in, or out, large pets. Although the other neighbors didn't mind you having a view of the back of the house, perhaps the new neighbors didn't want you looking over the fence into their yard and at/in the back of their house?

We live on a street that has a hill, so the houses are on different levels.  So my neighbors to the left have a view of our yard over the top of their fence, and we have a view of our neighbor's yard to the right, and can see the neighbor's backyard to the back right, as the fences are installed at the bottom of the slope (not sure why that it was done that way.  Our home had one installed at the top too.)  The one to the left has commented several times over the years about thing that are going on in our yard. Luckily we like our neighbors but I am always aware when I am in the backyard that I can be seen by them.  - Just a thought from someone on the other side of the fence.


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## csxjohn (Jun 11, 2012)

The obvious solution, in my eyes, to what I don't really consider a problem is to stain your fence to look like theirs.



"I wasn't as upset as my next door neighbor because they don't even have a back fence and now, 25+ years after living in that house, they are getting a fence on their back border."

If your neighbor wanted to keep the status quo, he should have bought the property when it went up for sale.

We get this all the time on our community.  People complain to everyone they can when a new development goes in.  We hear things like "we bought for the view and now it will be gone."

If they want the view they need to pay for it. 

To your credit you state that you understand and respect the rights of the new owners.

The reason I say I don't perceive this as a problem is that in a very short period of time you probably won't notice what you notice now.  It eventually will look normal to you.


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## lvhmbh (Jun 11, 2012)

Someone mentioned the area between the fences.  It is my bet, since they just bought the property, that they had it surveyed (in my area you are required to do so) and they have put the fence on THEIR property line.  That means you must maintain the area between the two fences.  Personally, I don't think it is too high as it provides them privacy as well as, maybe, keeping their animals in.  Your fence looks quite jumpable by a big dog.  I would take my fence down after ascertaining that they didn't mind you staining your side if you choose to do so.  When we put up a new fence we talked with our neighbor about the side of the fence that was going to face them but NOT about the height.  JMHO, Linda


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## theo (Jun 11, 2012)

heathpack said:


> <snip>  First, I would look at local building codes and see if it perhaps too tall.  If it is, you could force them to re-do it, if you are game for the conflict.
> 
> If you want your side of the fence painted, you'd probably have better luck asking if you could have it painted yourself.  And then reprinted on the same schedule you reprint your own.
> 
> Perhaps a better solution is to come up with some sort of decorative extension to your own fence to make it as tall as their's. <snip>



The above input seems wise and prudent. If you want the back of someone else's fence painted, I have to believe that effort will be *yours* to accomplish (...of course, only *with* the permission of the other land / fence owner). If the new fence is in compliance with local zoning / building codes, then I see few other options besides modifying your own fence (...staying within the applicable height codes in doing so). 

P.S. Maybe poet Robert Frost had it all wrong when he observed that "good fences make good neighbors".


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## theo (Jun 11, 2012)

*Yessa!*



ScoopLV said:


> Take your fence down next time it needs to be painted. Let THEM maintain their fence. You don't have to.



Maybe even a *better* idea --- and one I didn't even think of...

On the other hand, they might opt to do _nothing_ in the future in the way of maintenance on the side of the fence facing you (the side that they won't / can't even see anyhow), leaving you with an eyesore...


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## DebBrown (Jun 11, 2012)

I can see where this will take some getting used to but their fence isn't too awful.  I think I would take the smaller fence down for both aesthetics and to be able to maintain the space between the fences.  It will not likely bother your neighbors if there are overgrown weeds on the outside of the fence.  That will become your responsibility.

Deb


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## Sea Six (Jun 11, 2012)

It really looks strange that your fence was built in horizontal sections, creating a stair-step look, but their fence is more parallel with the slope of the ground.  I hope the new fence is taken care of, because I've seen how bad wooden fences can get in 10 years if they aren't.  Rotten boards, loose or missing boards, etc, etc..


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## heathpack (Jun 11, 2012)

theo said:


> P.S. Maybe poet Robert Frost had it all wrong when he observed that "good fences make good neighbors".



Robert Frost was actually arguing against a fence in that particular poem.  The phrase "good fences make good neighbors" is stated in that poem, but it is just the voice in the poem stating what the platitude that the neighbor was repeating when the neighbor insisted that they meet to do their annual spring repair on a store wall separating two field.

Robert Frost's opinion was "Something there is that doesn't love a wall, that wants it down". That phrase is a clever play on his own name.  Why are theses neighbors repairing this New England wall every year?  The effects of freezing and melting constantly push the stones apart- it is frost or Frost that tries to knock this wall down, and the neighbor who wants to put it back up again.  This is one of my favorite poems.  Perhaps a good read for everyone right now:

Mending Wall
Robert Frost

SOMETHING there is that doesn't love a wall,	
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,	
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;	
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.	
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair	
Where they have left not one stone on stone,	
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,	
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,	
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.	
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;	
And on a day we meet to walk the line	
And set the wall between us once again.	
We keep the wall between us as we go.	
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.	
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls	
We have to use a spell to make them balance:	
"Stay where you are until our backs are turned!"	
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.	
Oh, just another kind of outdoor game,	
One on a side. It comes to little more:	
He is all pine and I am apple-orchard.	
My apple trees will never get across	
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.	
He only says, "Good fences make good neighbors."	
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder	
If I could put a notion in his head:	
"Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it	
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.	
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know	
What I was walling in or walling out,	
And to whom I was like to give offence.	
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,	
That wants it down!" I could say "Elves" to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather	
He said it for himself. I see him there,	
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top	
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.	
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,	
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.	
He will not go behind his father's saying,	
And he likes having thought of it so well	
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."

Maybe OP should send a copy to the neighbor.

H


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## pjrose (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm thinking that the high fence may be because of a large dog that would likely jump a shorter fence.  

Re staining, it'd be hard to keep from slopping some of the stain/paint in between the slats and possibly on the other side, I don't think I'd want to do that.

Comment about their fence will weather to grey may be correct, unless their fence wasn't left natural.

Weeds in between could be taken care of with roundup, but as noted, they likely won't even see them, so it'll be on you.

I thought of some vines too....maybe Kudzu LOL.  (JK)

I think I'd just take down my own fence along that stretch, but save it, in case they or another owner takes down theirs.


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## scrapngen (Jun 11, 2012)

pjrose said:


> I'm thinking that the high fence may be because of a large dog that would likely jump a shorter fence.
> 
> Re staining, it'd be hard to keep from slopping some of the stain/paint in between the slats and possibly on the other side, I don't think I'd want to do that.
> 
> ...



My first thought was also that of a large dog on their side. You might find yourself thankful for the tall fence rather than complaining about a dog doing damage in your yard.  

Secondly, PLEASE don't use round-up for your weeds! The Pacific Northwest does not need the chemicals on the land or in the run-off... 

I agree with removing your own fence and then caring for the additional footage, but I wouldn't put in anything I couldn't bear them removing if it is their property and they or future owners decide your plants are an issue. 

Good luck! Hopefully they'll be good neighbors in other ways.


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## susieq (Jun 11, 2012)

Amy,
First of all ~ I love your yard. If it were up to me, I'd just plant some big flowering shrubs between your trees...........(3 I think?) Eventually, (hopefully not too long), they'll grow up & spread, and you'll hardly notice their fence.
Sue


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## Htoo0 (Jun 11, 2012)

At first I was thinking of adding framed in lattice work to the top of yours but I think it might look strange. Usually the lattice isn't more than a third of the fence height and a foot or so is even more typical. I too think I'd just remove my fence and extend the sides to their fence. I would ask first to be nice but if it's on the line you should be able to run it right up to theirs with no problem. A new addition went up next to us a few years ago and it's amazing to see how quickly the new privacy fences have deteriorated.


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## Elan (Jun 11, 2012)

First of all, I don't think it looks awful.  Not great, but not awful.  I bet if you give it a couple of weeks, it will seem less offensive.  Reminds me of when we first moved into our brand new house how one sheetrock seam really bothered me (visible at a certain time of evening in a certain light).  Now I'm hard-pressed to even find that seam.

  Having said that, if it continues to bother you, this is how I'd proceed:

First, find out if their fence is within the CC&R's for the neighborhood.  If it is, then I'd find out whether the fence is definitely on their property and not on the property line.  If it's on the property line, tear yours down.  If their fence is on their property, I'd go ask them if they would mind you "sharing" the fence in exchange for you staining/maintaining your side, and tear yours down.  If that's not acceptable, then I'd probably put in a new taller fence, hiding theirs, or put in some additional greenery/hardscape to hide your fence.  

  As a last comment, consider that these new neighbors might have struggled with the fencing decision as much as you're struggling with the results of their decision.  In other words, they may think they were being courteous neighbors by not tying into your fence, moving their fence off property line, etc.


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## flexible (Jun 11, 2012)

Amy said:


> heathpack:  Thanks for the suggestions.  I actually haven't looked close enough to know the distance between the two fences.  You make a good point about weeds.  I'll take a look tomorrow.
> 
> Klynn:  I don't know.  I think you need to get a permit if over a certain height; but that likely just means a fee.  I'll go check.



There are probably ordinances limiting the height regardless of whether you pay for a permit.

In http://www.cnbc.com/id/28281668 (Mendocino County, CA) I think you can NOT have a fence over 8 feet high. For some reason the people who purchased foreclosures to create pot farms ONLY have 8 feet high fences.

"Good Fences make Good Neighbors" but I think they should have made an effort to discuss their proposed fence with neighbors bordering their property first.


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## Wonka (Jun 11, 2012)

Why not plant some of the bushes like those I see on the right side of your photo?  They look like they would provide a nice "scree".  Maybe you can put them in between.


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## geekette (Jun 12, 2012)

I would deal with the aesthetics and leave your fence up for now.

I'd be very interested in the property line/weed maintenance issue.  If they built within their property line, you'll need to get them to maintain the space, even if they can't see it/doesn't bother them.  If they are On the property line, looks like that will be your problem, and that's when I would remove your portion of the fence.

I wouldn't bother with staining.  it will age regardless.


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## Passepartout (Jun 12, 2012)

It (the new neighbor's fence) looks like cedar, in which case, it'll fade to a nice gray not unlike the OP's existing fence. 

Jim


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## Elan (Jun 12, 2012)

geekette said:


> I wouldn't bother with staining.  it will age regardless.



  I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Of course the fence will age (don't we all  ), but if the fence is stained when new and re-stained every 5 years or so, it will never look weathered.  Our cedar fence was initially stained 10 years ago, and if I re-stained it tomorrow (without any prep) it would look nearly as good as it did back then.


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## malonem68 (Jun 12, 2012)

Something I just noticed is that the new wood fence is in fact installed 'backwards'.  The rule of thumb if you are putting in a wood fence is your neighbor gets the 'good' side and you get the side will the posts showing.  Looks like they made a few mistakes there.


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## rrlongwell (Jun 12, 2012)

Wonka said:


> Why not plant some of the bushes like those I see on the right side of your photo?  They look like they would provide a nice "scree".  Maybe you can put them in between.



I like your idea to remove the back portion of your fense.  If there is a gap between the end of your side fenses an their back fense, then plant some fast growing heavy trees, such as a very fast growing pine tree.  If you fensed back yard is needed before the trees finsh the side lines, a temporary low fence would work.  Or, just spring for a couple of big pine trees and plant immediately.  If you do not know where the back of your property is compared to where the back of  their line is, check with the neighbor to make sure it is alright.  If it is not, a surveyor would normally stake the corners of the lot for about $400 dollars.


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## geekette (Jun 12, 2012)

Elan said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Of course the fence will age (don't we all  ), but if the fence is stained when new and re-stained every 5 years or so, it will never look weathered.  Our cedar fence was initially stained 10 years ago, and if I re-stained it tomorrow (without any prep) it would look nearly as good as it did back then.



One application of stain, no problem, tho I don't feel it should be OPs problem.  repeating it every five years for a fence I don't own and I didn't want?  No.  I would be fine with the weathered look vs extra maintenance as I doubt the owner is going to want to stain the side they can't see every 5 years.  

I have some benches on my deck that I have never stained and I actually like the look. ymmv


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## csxjohn (Jun 12, 2012)

malonem68 said:


> Something I just noticed is that the new wood fence is in fact installed 'backwards'.  The rule of thumb if you are putting in a wood fence is your neighbor gets the 'good' side and you get the side will the posts showing.  Looks like they made a few mistakes there.



Good eye!  I've never seen this type fence installed this way.  If may even be in violation of the city's building codes.



rrlongwell said:


> ...  If you do not know where the back of your property is compared to where the back of  their line is, check with the neighbor to make sure it is alright.  If it is not, a surveyor would normally stake the corners of the lot for about $400 dollars.



If there are codes and a permit was needed and obtained to build this fence, a survey should have been necessary before construction.  Many building codes call for a set back from the property line.

The OP may want to check with the city to make sure that everything was done properly.


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## IngridN (Jun 12, 2012)

malonem68 said:


> Something I just noticed is that the new wood fence is in fact installed 'backwards'.  The rule of thumb if you are putting in a wood fence is your neighbor gets the 'good' side and you get the side will the posts showing.  Looks like they made a few mistakes there.



That's not necessarily the back side. It looks like there may be a 'railing' with the vertical boards set in the middle. Both sides of the fence would see the posts. Our new fence is the same except the boards slightly overlap each other for additional strength...both sides of the fence look exactly the same.

Ingrid


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## Elan (Jun 12, 2012)

geekette said:


> One application of stain, no problem, tho I don't feel it should be OPs problem.  repeating it every five years for a fence I don't own and I didn't want?  No.  I would be fine with the weathered look vs extra maintenance as I doubt the owner is going to want to stain the side they can't see every 5 years.
> 
> I have some benches on my deck that I have never stained and I actually like the look. ymmv



  To be honest, I haven't re-stained mine since it was done initially.  It's on my never-ending list of things to get done this summer.  With a tank sprayer and a brush it doesn't take more than a couple of hours.  

  I agree with you about the weathered look.  I have some teak chairs that I just let go silver.  The problem with this approach on fences is that they typically get hit with sprinklers and become pretty ugly pretty fast.  Likely not a problem for the OP.


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## Sandi Bo (Jun 12, 2012)

You do have a beautiful yard and I, too, would be upset with their actions. That said, maybe it's good it's a high fence as you will most likely never see them.

I thought the neighborly thing to do when putting up a fence was to face the good side of the fence to your neighbor.  They did not, which makes me think they put no thought into what anyone else wanted.  

What they did was inconsiderate.  I would do what it takes to make me happy.  I would opt for taking down your old fence and possibly staining the side of theirs that faces you. I also like the idea of putting some plants or something around it.

We have German Shepherds but they don't jump (last 2 don't anyways). When we replaced our fence, we asked the neighbors what they preferred. They asked for a 4 foot fence ("or they'd never see us").  Now they are gone and the new neighbors asked us if we'd go in on a 6 foot fence.  It's hard to win sometimes (I have lots of stories about my new neighbor, I want my old one back).

Good luck!


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