# Pahio to Wyndham



## mplswjr (Jan 23, 2007)

We own a two bedroom EOY at the Kauai Beach Villas.  Somehow, our ownership was moved into RCI Points to our dismay related to the use year beginning being changed from the calendar year to beginning March 1 through February 28.

Now we read about Pahio being sold to Wyndham, but haven't heard anything about the effect on trading, scheduling, etc.

Does anyone have information on this, or is there an online site that can give information?

Mahalo

Bill


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## "Roger" (Jan 23, 2007)

mplswjr said:


> ...Now we read about Pahio being sold to Wyndham, but haven't heard anything about the effect on trading, scheduling, etc....Does anyone have information on this, or is there an online site that can give information?


There are at least two threads on this subject within this board, but the bottom line (as of when those discussions took place) is that none of us knows exactly what will happen -- we are (were) speculating. Very recently, there was a note on the Hawiian board about a sales presentation at Bali Hai which suggested that, just that week, the timeshare sales pitch at Bali Hai was directed toward selling Fairfield Points.  The person who wrote the note was not an existing owner and thus was not in a position to ask extensive questions as to what was going to be done with existing arrangements.

Given that, all I can say is stay tuned and watch both this board and the Hawiian board for further information.



mplswjr said:


> We own a two bedroom EOY at the Kauai Beach Villas.  Somehow, our ownership was moved into RCI Points to our dismay related to the use year beginning being changed from the calendar year to beginning March 1 through February 28...


This part of your message confused me. (I am thinking that it contains a typo??)  I am guessing (and could be completely wrong) that you converted to Points and your "use year" changed from the calendar year to from March to March.  

Your use year within Points is connected to when you joined that specific program.  If you find that getting your new allocation of points in March (as opposed to January -- or September -- whenever) is not working, you might call Pahio and ask if you can have your "use year" changed.  I don't know whether they still do, but they used to be willing to change the timing of your "use year" (but charged something like $100 to do it).

Hopes this helps...
Mahalo


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## ouaifer (Jan 23, 2007)

We are owners at Ka'Eo Kai...and went to the Sales Presentation at Bali Hai yesterday...for one reason, and one reason only.  We were persuaded by our Concierge that they were giving out pertinent information about how Wyndham works and their points' system.  However, it was nothing more than a ploy to get you to buy more units at Bali Hai and buying more points.  That having been said, we left early, because we were not interested...and the bottom line...they had nothing to say about how Wyndham works wrt  their recent purchase of Pahio.  When Wyndham decides to notify the Pahio owners of what the practices will be, all Pahio owners will receive the information at basically the same time.

As far as speculation is concerned...I personally suggest that we all _*cease*_ speculation!  It does nothing good for any of us, and only puts false rumors out there.  We will all find out in good time.  Right now, all they are interested in is selling the Bali Hai units....and getting weeks' owners to cash out and convert to points.  I for one, will _never_ do that!

Aloha to all...from Princeville


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## ajsmithtx (Jan 23, 2007)

ouaifer said:


> As far as speculation is concerned...I personally suggest that we all _*cease*_ speculation!  It does nothing good for any of us, and only puts false rumors out there.  We will all find out in good time.



I agree.  I would like to know how the "New Pahio" will be organized, :annoyed: but until we get something official, we are only guessing.


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## Sandy (Jan 23, 2007)

My friend is in Princeville right now.  She went to a presentation and was told the same thing: that Pahio is now going to be Wyndham.  Of course, at this point it is also Fairfield, so rumors do nothing to add to the accurate dialogue!


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## "Roger" (Jan 23, 2007)

ouaifer said:


> ...When Wyndham decides to notify the Pahio owners of what the practices will be, all Pahio owners will receive the information at basically the same time....


I really hope that this will be true, but am somewhat dubious.

I was very disappointed that Pahio did not do this when they joined the Points program.  I got NOTHING in terms of information about this change until I actually went to a sale presentation, and, by that time, they had been in the Points program _for over a year and a half_.  What I was told was that they wanted to present information about the program in person and not try to explain anything via mail.  

I was glad for TUG in that I was able to do a lot of research because of TUG prior to going to hear their "in person presenation" about the changes.  The in person approach was an all out sales push, and, thanks to TUG I was able to ask the appropriate questions and come to a thought out decision.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 23, 2007)

*Who can even imagine what the future holds for PAHIO owners?*

PAHIO is (used to be?) a great company and I am sorry to see them move to the "dark side" of keeping information from current owners.  I expect them to continue to treat resale buyers who bought on the "black market" as poorly within the Fairfield/Wyndham system as they do now under Mr. Walters. 

They currently deny resale buyers the opportunity to get RCI points, not that points is the best use of the three-and-a-half weeks we own.  Points' cost are actually at 1 cent per point in maintenance fees for those who purchased from the developer, which is not great when compared to other resorts around the country, and not even as good as our weeks we use for PFD.  *Vacation Village at Parkway is much lower *for the same amount of points, and they are in *overbuilt Orlando*.  So if a "point is a point," why buy in Hawaii if you can get the same elsewhere?  Of course, Vacation Village may face a drastic drop in point values when the developers bail.  That is just my prediction, simply because the point values seem high for where the resort sits.  

Maintenance fees have skyrocketed at PAHIO.  The first year we owned it, in 2004, it was $674 for a two bedroom, then it was $726 in 2005, then $822 last year and over $900 this year, though I cannot remember what we paid exactly.  Those increases are ridiculous and I hope they stop increasing by over 10% EVERY YEAR.  Even the one bedroom was $760 this year!

So now Wyndham enters the picture.  I don't like the suspense at all and expect the worst, though I agree we should not speculate.


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## mplswjr (Jan 24, 2007)

*Clarification*

Sorry to the posters above about my inquiry about Pahio/Wyndham.  I had absolutely no intention to stir inordinate speculation or rumor, only a simple inquiry from my co-owners at TUG.

The problem I have with the change in use year was apparently related to a shift from RCI Weeks to Points.  We space-banked our week in 2006 because we couldn't use it.  Apparently, Pahio decided to put the usage into RCI Points without consultation with me.  We normally use our Pahio (now Wyndham?) week along with two even year weeks on the Big Island.  January is our much-preferred time to go because we are from Minnesota.  With the change of use year at Pahio/Wyndham, we no longer have even year use in January to schedule in conjunction with our even year weeks on the Big Island.

Like others above, we are eager to hear what lies ahead for us in the future, and sincerely hope we can put our three weeks together.

Mahalo

Bill


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## "Roger" (Jan 24, 2007)

mplswjr said:


> ...We space-banked our week in 2006 because we couldn't use it.  Apparently, Pahio decided to put the usage into RCI Points without consultation with me...


When you converted your unit to points, you agreed that, if the unit were to be deposited into RCI at all, it will be deposited into the RCI Points -- in essence, you were saying that you wanted this unit to be part of the Points (and not the Weeks) system. Pahio has no choice here.

One thing that you should be aware of is that with Pahio (and apparently this is unusual for Points resorts) they will not deposit a unit at all unless you request that they do so.  (Most resorts in the Points system automatically deposit their units and require owners who want to use their unit to claim it back from RCI during the Home Week or Home Resort priority period.) Given that, the first thing that I would try is to call Pahio up on March 1 or close to March 1 and say that you would not like to have your unit for that use year deposited, but to use your unit for the week of January XX.  I suspect that will end the matter.  If not, then I would investigate having the date of your "use year" changed.

(One thing I do not know here - and maybe someone else can chime in and help - is does RCI charge an exchange fee if you claim your own unit during the "Home Group" priority period?  I know that they don't if you use the "Home Unit" or "Home Resort" period?  If they do not, that would give Bill another route to claim a January unit at Pahio even with a March 1 "use year" starting date.)


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## ragtop (Jan 24, 2007)

You can use your PAHIO week at PAHIO for your home resort by reserving it through PAHIO's VIP service.  No RCI fee for that.  If you deposit your PAHIO week to RCI Points and trade back to your home resort, however, you will pay the RCI exchange fee.


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## mplswjr (Jan 24, 2007)

*Involuntary conversion*

If a conversion was made to Points by Pahio/Wyndham or by RCI, it was without any direction or acceptance on my part, nor was there any explanation of the effect of the capricious or unilateral action taken on this matter.  That seems to be the factual reality as I can discern it.

Thanks to all for your efforts to sort this through.

Mahalo,

Bill


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## "Roger" (Jan 24, 2007)

mplswjr said:


> *If a conversion was made to Points by Pahio/Wyndham or by RCI, it was without any direction or acceptance on my part*, nor was there any explanation of the effect of the capricious or unilateral action taken on this matter.  That seems to be the factual reality as I can discern it.
> 
> Thanks to all for your efforts to sort this through.
> 
> ...


*
Hi Bill,

Let me see if I understand this correctly.  You owned at Pahio and used it within the Weeks system, but your unit was converted from the Weeks system to Points without your having signed, said, or (most interestingly) paid anything?  (That is what I thought must have been a typo in your first message.)

If so, something is definitely amiss and you should talk to Pahio about it.  They should not have converted your week without your having signed a contract.  (I might add that those of us who have converted had to pay Pahio a sizable fee to do so.)

Again, if I understand what you are saying, call Pahio.  There should have not been a conversion without a signed contract on your part.  It your unit was converted without your having signed a contract, they have screwed up their records somehow.
Good luck*


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## mplswjr (Jan 24, 2007)

*No paperwork, no fee paid*

It is true to say that I did not authorize verbally, or by signature any change in our Pahio KBV ownership from RCI Weeks to RCI Points.  We have also never paid any fee to make the conversion.  It appears that the change happened by unilateral action by Pahio or by RCI, or both.  I have called Pahio Owner Services in Princeville to request a change, but was told I needed to contact the Pahio sales group for the reversal.  I was told in early December that they would make the change, but no sign of such a change in status has materialized.  Perhaps the arrival of Wyndham has sidetracked or even stopped this change.

The delay in communication about the Wyndham takeover is not particularly good owner relations to my view.

Thanks for your interest in this situation.

Mahalo

Bill


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 25, 2007)

Gosh, I hope they make that same mistake on all of OUR weeks.     FREE!  We were told we could not even convert for any price, as resale owners, when we visited in July.  Whatever they say is gospel, right?


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## "Roger" (Jan 25, 2007)

Part of me reacts just like you, Cindy.  You got it for free??!!  Heck, why don't you pay a $100 to get your use year changed to January, then you'll be able to do just what you want with regard to nailing down your home week a year in advance and have all the benefits of Points for (almost) nothing.  That will be the cheapest conversion in history!

Unfortunately, I know exactly what will happen.  Apparently poor Bill has had a protracted fight over this (at least, that is what it appears).  "No, we can't change you to Weeks.  You need to talk to sales."  "No, we can't change your status, you need to talk to the records office."  Yada, yada, yada.

Bet my bottom dollar as soon as Bill turns around and says, "Well, I guess I'm in points, can you deposit my points for me?"  "Oh my gosh.  You're not in Points.  We can't send do anything like that!" 

Overall, I've been very impressed with Pahio.  I am disappointed to learn of Bill's experiences.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 25, 2007)

How about the fee increases, Roger?  Those are huge!  I know they have their excuses, but geeeeezzzzz!


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## slabeaume (Jan 26, 2007)

I guess I still don't understand why you can't get a weeks exchange with that even if they did put it in points.  As a points owner, you also have a weeks membership---the best of both worlds.  With weeks you can book 2 years out, as opposed to the 10 months points exchanges can.  I, too, am surprised they're telling you you have a points membership now (is that right?).  We paid quite a bit to convert 2 of our weeks into points, the other 2 are resale and they want even more to convert them (since we were originally charter members, they will allow us to convert our weeks to points, but for a much greater fee---we decided to leave them the way they are).


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## "Roger" (Jan 26, 2007)

slabeaume said:


> I guess I still don't understand why you can't get a weeks exchange with that even if they did put it in points.  As a points owner, you also have a weeks membership...


Since Pahio is a Points resort and Bill (not to his liking) has a Points membership, he has to abide by the Points rules with regard to when he can access a unit.  That would be 10 months out and not 2 years.

Actually, it is a bit more complicated in this case.  He has home resort priority in Points.  That means he could get a unit at Kauai Beach Villages 11 to 12 months out.  At first, that would appear to solve his problem.  With access to Kauai Beach Villages 12 months out, he could access a unit for January in January just like he wants.  That presumes, however, he has a unit deposited that he can use.  Unfortunately with his use year, he won't be depositing until March so that would be the first time he could put in his request.  (There are other possibilities here, but, in the end, the best thing for him _if he were so stay in Points _would be to have his use year begin in January since that is when he normally goes to Kauai. The other possibility is for Bill to get Pahio to straighten out his records and acknowledge that he is not in Points.)


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## "Roger" (Jan 26, 2007)

rickandcindy23 said:


> How about the fee increases, Roger?  Those are huge!  I know they have their excuses, but geeeeezzzzz!


Obviously I am not in love with the increases of late.  On the other hand,...

You're right, of recent, increases have been about 10% a year.  (Ouch!)  During my first five years of ownership, however, my total increase for the five years was about 15%.  So, if things settle down, my increases over the total span of ownership haven't been that bad.
I'm sure that you have noticed on the Hawiaan board that Pahio timeshares are not the only ones in Hawaii to be taking a big hit of recent.  Some of the Maui owners have been getting hit with 15% increases.  That gives some credence to Pahio's explanations as to why they have needed to start raising maintenence fees more rapidly.
My "assigned unit" (the one of the deed) is one of the older ones.  When we bought, we were promised that these units would be completely renovated after ten years.  I would be extremely angry if they were allowed to deteriorate.  Admittedly, the cost of renovation should have been built into the maintenence fees, so that, in and of itself, should not have a cause for a sudden rise in maintenence fees.  One of the explanations for the rise in fees given by Pahio is that, in these older units, they decided not to replace like-for-like (the linolium floor with linolium floor), but to use the materials that they are now putting into the newer units.  I know that I have seen you post how much better that new units are (granite counter tops, etc.).  These "upgrades" were not built into the replacement fees.  So, the question is, should the older units at Pahio become dated looking and less desirable, or, should Pahio try to continue to have all of its units look like a just built, new resort?
I know that this list sounds like Pahio's "excuses" but I guess for now I am williing to let things go.  Given the choice between higher maintenence fees versus letting the Pahio resorts become one of those with a ten year life span, I would rather choose the former.


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## rickandcindy23 (Jan 26, 2007)

We own one-and-a-half weeks in buildings one and two, so I would love to see the original PAHIOs get the upgrades, so if that is what they are doing with the increases, I am all for that, as an owner.  I think it would be great to see those same items added to the old ones, though I thought they were very nice; otherwise, we would not have searched for resales.  We stayed in building 2 our first visit in 2004 and absolutely loved it.  

Maui had huge property tax increases because the politicians wanted to get money from those of us who have no vote there.   It was a huge increase for us, with our property tax increasing from $50 to $136 for Gardens at West Maui.  So now I have to ask more for our rental.  I am not happy, but that is what happens when the government can get their hands on the money of non-voters.  Who is complaining (on behalf of US) on Maui that we are helping their local government by paying ridiculous property taxes.  They get the money, we get the bills.


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## tfalk (Jan 26, 2007)

While I'm annoyed about the increases at KaEoKai, I can honestly say it's not
just them.  We sold our Mauna Kai condo 2 years ago and they were going 
through the same thing - the units are all getting to be between 20 and 30
years old and need more upkeep/upgrading than the newer units.   We're
heading to Kauai in August, I haven't stayed there in a couple of years now so
this should be interesting.  My parents were at Pahio in August, right after the
Wyndham takeover and they were told we should be receiving more info in the
next couple of weeks.  I guess they just never said what year those weeks
were going to be in


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## "Roger" (Jan 26, 2007)

I don't want to leave you with the impression that I am totally at ease, Cindy.  

Like you, I thought that the older units looked pretty good.  Sure, granite counter tops (or Corian or whatever they put in the newer units) look super, but do I really need that on my vacation?  (I suppose if things like this add 10,000 points to RCI's evaluation of my unit, the answer is "yes," but who knows?)  

When Walters was in charge, I was more than willing to trust his judgment.  It just seemed like he ran a class operation.  With him having sold and a corporate entity now in ownership, I am more nervous.


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## slabeaume (Feb 3, 2007)

"Roger" said:


> Since Pahio is a Points resort and Bill (not to his liking) has a Points membership, he has to abide by the Points rules with regard to when he can access a unit.  That would be 10 months out and not 2 years.
> 
> Actually, it is a bit more complicated in this case.  He has home resort priority in Points.  That means he could get a unit at Kauai Beach Villages 11 to 12 months out.  At first, that would appear to solve his problem.  With access to Kauai Beach Villages 12 months out, he could access a unit for January in January just like he wants.  That presumes, however, he has a unit deposited that he can use.  Unfortunately with his use year, he won't be depositing until March so that would be the first time he could put in his request.  (There are other possibilities here, but, in the end, the best thing for him _if he were so stay in Points _would be to have his use year begin in January since that is when he normally goes to Kauai. The other possibility is for Bill to get Pahio to straighten out his records and acknowledge that he is not in Points.)



BUT---as a points owner, he also has a weeks membership.  With weeks he can bank the unit 2 years in advance.  He doesn't have to bank that unit in points, does he?  Since he's going for an internal exchange, why not bank it in his weeks account?


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## "Roger" (Feb 3, 2007)

You can't bank a week that you converted into the Weeks program.  All that the Weeks membership means is that you don't have to pay for a separate Weeks membership if you also have other timeshare units that have not been converted.


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## mplswjr (Feb 4, 2007)

*Got an answer*

Thanks again to all the posters.  I got an answer to our dilemma, finally from an RCI "guide".  Even a post on "Ask RCI" didn't have the answer.

Apparently, within RCI Points you can schedule at your home resort ten to twelve months in advance of your desired dates.  There is a $40 fee that is waived for some resorts.

So it seems that our problem is solved.

Mahalo

Bill


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