# Huge resort near HRA  still not opened



## komosatp (Mar 26, 2015)

Bahamar (the under-construction Chinese knock-off of Las Vegas' City Center, but in Nassau and on the beach) has unexpectedly delayed its opening.  It was due to open tomorrow, but they announced just 48 hours ago that the main hotel would not be ready (other hotels were not expected until real grand opening in May).

There's going to be a lot of unhappy people who've arranged for spring break time off looking to stay somewhere in Nassau (when many resorts there are basically at 100% occupancy).

Bahamar might be reimbursing people for flights, but a lot of people (like me) can't just move a vacation around. Work, school, family all get scheduled and you can't just find another week that easily.

So a lot of people will be looking for available accommodations in Nassau, on short notice.  *Make them Pay!!!!*:hysterical:

Story:


> THE opening of Baha Mar has been delayed from this Friday to “early May” due to ongoing construction work at the $3.5 billion property, officials from the mega-resort confirmed in a statement last night.
> 
> In its statement, the resort also criticised the performance of the lead contractor, revealing that work at the property had not met Baha Mar’s “standards of excellence” and was not acceptable. Baha Mar also said it had relied on statements from its construction manager and lead contractor when it previously announced a March 27 opening date.
> 
> ...


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## Weimaraner (Mar 31, 2015)

The FamilyFun rental website looks really empty until June. I did just get a mailing from Atlantis that says "aquaventure- Now Exclusive For Atlantis Guests Only* (Aquaventure can also be purchased through cruise ship packages)."

I have no idea what this means?

I looked at the Comfort Suites hotel and they still offer admission to Aquaventure. And they still offer to cruise guests. So who can't use Aquaventure? Are they saying Baha Mar guests? I don't know what has changed


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## komosatp (Mar 31, 2015)

Weimaraner said:


> The FamilyFun rental website looks really empty until June.


I just saw a post on Trip Advisor that indicated the delay may be even longer.

Bahamar has four different brands within the towers in the development (Grand Hyatt, SLS Lux, Rosewood, and Bahamar Hotel and Casino). The unbranded was the one supposed to open March 27, with the others to follow in May. There's little public info on this, and it could be that the resort *has to* open in phases, so even more people will be seeking out accommodations in Nassau, possibly into June.





Weimaraner said:


> I did just get a mailing from Atlantis that says "aquaventure- Now Exclusive For Atlantis Guests Only* (Aquaventure can also be purchased through cruise ship packages)."
> 
> I have no idea what this means?
> 
> I looked at the Comfort Suites hotel and they still offer admission to Aquaventure. And they still offer to cruise guests. So who can't use Aquaventure? Are they saying Baha Mar guests? I don't know what has changed


Yes, they are basically saying Bahamar guests are out-of-luck, but from what I've read its a blanket policy for all non-Atlantis Nassau hotels.

My understanding is that Atlantis will no longer sell general public day passes.  Cruisers can walk-up and show a cruise ship ID, if Aquaventure is not sold out, but people at the RIU, Cable Beach Resorts, and other Nassau accommodation won't be able to use Aquaventure without having a room at 'official' places, including HRA and Comfort Suites (and probably the One & Only Ocean Club).

I think the practical impact on crowds at Atlantis will be negligible, because I would bet 95% of the non-Atlantis guest crowd is pre-booked cruise excursions. I think the bottom line is Atlantis didn't want families booking a week at Bahamar, and coming over to Atlantis for a one day visit. If people want to experience Atlantis' attractions, they have to stay there.  Or so the thinking goes.

This could have an impact on HRA rule-breakers: I'm sure some of the less honarable among us have brought more then the 'legal' occupancy down to HRA, planning to buy daypasess for the unauthorized/registered person.  This policy takes away that avenue.


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## Weimaraner (Mar 31, 2015)

So does Atlantis own Comfort Suites? I hear of so many cruisers that rent a room at Comfort Suites just for the Aquaventure passes.

I really hope Baha Mar doesn't have too much of an impact on Atlantis. From what I've read, Baha Mar is geared toward adults while Atlantis is more family friendly. I hope there is plenty of business to go around for both to be successful with their target markets. Not a good impression by leaving people stranded by pushing back dates.


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## komosatp (Mar 31, 2015)

Weimaraner said:


> So does Atlantis own Comfort Suites?


Own? not sure especially after the change in Atlantis' ownership a few years ago. At one time, Kerzner Ltd. was on the ID card you got at check-in at the CS.  Not sure of the set-up now, but they still have Atlantis access. 





Weimaraner said:


> I really hope Baha Mar doesn't have too much of an impact on Atlantis. From what I've read, Baha Mar is geared toward adults while Atlantis is more family friendly. I hope there is plenty of business to go around for both to be successful with their target markets. Not a good impression by leaving people stranded by pushing back dates.


I think its a different product. Atlantis might lose some swank-a-luxe Cove and/Reef customers, but gain more families.  Might be good for Atlantis in the long run by adding more airlift to the island (hopefully bringing in more competition/flights and maybe lower airfare), and stimulate more investment in Atlantis, like new facilities, restaurants, attractions, etc.  Think of what happened to Orlando when Universal decided to compete head-to-head with Disney - now Orlando has record number of visitors each year and lots of recurring investments in the theme parks/attractions.


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## Weimaraner (Mar 31, 2015)

Good point! I'm glad to also see Marriott signed on to Atlantis which shows that the resort will continue to compete. I remember pre-9/11 there use to be cheap one day trips offered to Nassau from Michigan. I never had the chance to go. Now it's more complicated to get to Nassau and expensive. I'm looking at airfare around $500-$600 pp this summer. I'd really love to see more flight options.

Thanks for your postings!


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## SMHarman (Apr 2, 2015)

komosatp said:


> Bahamar (the under-construction Chinese knock-off of Las Vegas' City Center, but in Nassau and on the beach) has unexpectedly delayed its opening.  It was due to open tomorrow, but they announced just 48 hours ago that the main hotel would not be ready (other hotels were not expected until real grand opening in May).
> 
> There's going to be a lot of unhappy people who've arranged for spring break time off looking to stay somewhere in Nassau (when many resorts there are basically at 100% occupancy).
> 
> ...


My friends that are going in a couple of weeks were given a full refund. Their 9 days at BahMar replaced with 9 days AI at the Melia (free) and an invite to come back to BahMar for 9 days for free when it opens. 

Jacking up your HRA rentals will not impact those with existing reservations.


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## komosatp (Apr 2, 2015)

SMHarman said:


> My friends that are going in a couple of weeks were given a full refund. Their 9 days at BahMar replaced with 9 days AI at the Melia (free) and an invite to come back to BahMar for 9 days for free when it opens.
> 
> Jacking up your HRA rentals will not impact those with existing reservations.


I've seen stories like this....maybe the conspiracy theories are right and Bahamar didn't open because of really low bookings, not because construction was unexpectedly delayed.

Also, I'm sure the peak days in Nassau this year are March 28 - April 10, and after that there's availability at other resorts. Some of the Facebook/tripadvisor anecdotes indicate that people wanted to be re-accommodated at Atlantis, and were told by Bahamar reps that Atlantis was an option, only to find out later (calls back/20 minutes on hold) that Atlantis was sold-out and Melia was the only option.


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## SMHarman (Apr 2, 2015)

These friends had the option of the Atlantis but decided in the $ saving AI. 

They have booked a couple I'd says in the holiday inn to visit Atlantis.


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## komosatp (Apr 27, 2015)

Bahamar is still behind schedule. Doesn't look like it will be opening in May.

April 23: Bahamas megaresort confirms another delay in opening

The rumors are pointing to a June opening for the main hotel/casino and August for the Grand Hyatt and other brands.


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## komosatp (May 14, 2015)

The situation is still pretty bad. Opening is still months away, with major disputes between the owner* and the contractor. Bahamar is denying rumors that it has run out of cash and won't open until 2016.





> China Construction America has admitted “slowing down” the work pace in the key weeks leading up to the planned March 27 opening, due to a payment dispute with Baha Mar.


*The 'owner' Sarkis Izmirlian put up a few hundred million of his father's money, and was lent several billion by the China Export-Import bank, and had China Construction America as contractor.


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## PamMo (May 14, 2015)

This is very sad to read. I own at Harborside, but am anxious to see the Baha Mar project completed. It will help the local economy and make Nassau/New Providence an even better place to vacation.


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## komosatp (May 14, 2015)

PamMo said:


> This is very sad to read. I own at Harborside, but am anxious to see the Baha Mar project completed. It will help the local economy and make Nassau/New Providence an even better place to vacation.


I agree.  Its gotten beyond the laugh at it and 'root for the home team' stage, and into a real concern for the Bahamas. I believe it will eventually open, but it could get bogged down in litigation and political disputes for months, if not a year or two.

The way I see it, it looks like any faith placed in Izmirlian by the Chinese and the Bahamians was misplaced. From everything I've read, he sounds like a rich playboy fooling around with Daddy's money, never having owned or operated a motel before, let alone a multi-brand mega-resort. If either the Chinese or Bahamians had said "look, this guy is too inexperienced" and brought in somebody with experience, this situation might not have existed.  A professional hotelier or developer would have seen long ago what was going on with construction.  And if it were the Chinese were solely in charge, they might have been okay opening with some major shortcomings, and taken care of the finer points later.  Now its just a hot mess.


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## Zermatt (May 19, 2015)

komosatp said:


> Bahamar is still behind schedule. Doesn't look like it will be opening in May.
> 
> April 23: Bahamas megaresort confirms another delay in opening
> 
> The rumors are pointing to a June opening for the main hotel/casino and August for the Grand Hyatt and other brands.



In our experience (vacationing for many years in Nassau, Paradise Island, and at Harborside Resort at Atlantis) things move at two speeds there, slow and reverse.


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## komosatp (Jun 29, 2015)

komosatp said:


> Its gotten beyond the laugh at it and 'root for the home team' stage, and into a real concern for the Bahamas. I believe it will eventually open, but it could get bogged down in litigation and political disputes for months, if not a year or two.


Not sure if this makes the situation better or worse:
Baha Mar Resort Undertakes Voluntary Chapter 11 Process


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## komosatp (Nov 16, 2015)

komosatp said:


> Not sure if this makes the situation better or worse:
> Baha Mar Resort Undertakes Voluntary Chapter 11 Process


Might be time for an update on this quagmire, since there's quite a bit of movement in the hotel industry and on this matter recently.

Bahamar is still closed and is months if not years away from opening. It has been riding a legal roller-coaster since the U.S. bankruptcy filing. The U.S. bankruptcy filing was eventually thrown out of the U.S. courts, landing back in the Bahamian judicial system. There were legal ups and downs along the way, but in the past few week the Chinese used the Bahamian court system to foreclose on the property. There will probably be some legal wrangling along the way, but Sarkis Izmarlian looks to be out, and the Chinese have found a hero to bring the project home and open the resort.

Wait for it...

Sol Kerzner, the inspiration /builder/former owner of Atlantis. Sol was forced to turn over Atlantis to his lenders a few years ago when he was unable to refinance all the debt he took out to expand it and take it private.

Despite Sol formerly not having the best reputation in the Bahamas, it sounds like they welcome his involvement since he knows how to get things done in the Bahamas.

I think getting this resort opened is good for HRA, Atlantis, and the Bahamas. Its now a giant visible zit on an otherwise beautiful face, sitting there nearly completed but unopened. Many of the airlines that had planned additional air-lift to the island haven't started new flights. There's so much unemployment (they estimate that Bahamar will be 12% of the Nassau economy) that they're setting a new murder rate record in Nassau this year.

The sooner this opens the better.


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## Bill4728 (Nov 16, 2015)

I've changed the title of this thread since it is not about HRA rentals  but about a huge resort which still has not opened

Just a quick warning  several travel websites list the four hotels in this resort complex as "accepting reservations" and they have ratings.  How can anyone rate a hotel that isn't open? all of these should have a BIG warning that the hotels are not open and may not open for some time.


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## komosatp (Nov 16, 2015)

Bill4728 said:


> I've changed the title of this thread since it is not about HRA rentals  but about a huge resort which still has not opened


Thanks for the change.


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## Helios (Nov 20, 2015)

Has anything opened, or is the entire project stopped?


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## Helios (Nov 20, 2015)

How about the Grand Hyatt?  I guess it's also affected by the delay.


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## komosatp (Nov 20, 2015)

moto x said:


> Has anything opened, or is the entire project stopped?


Nothing has opened in the newly constructed buildings.   Some of the older Cable Beach resorts that were already there are still operating.  There might be  grand plan to call them 'Bahamar Resorts' at some point, but not today.





moto x said:


> How about the Grand Hyatt?  I guess it's also affected by the delay.


Yes, its affected. And Rosewood tried/is trying to get out of its contract. All the legal maneuvering brought some ownership irregularities to the surface (the wrong Bahamar legal entity owned the land where the Rosewood property was being built).

I wouldn't be surprised if the brands of the hotel towers change with the foreclosure.  The new owners might want certain operators to come in, and that might give Rosewood and/or Hyatt an avenue to get out.


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## Helios (Nov 20, 2015)

komosatp said:


> Nothing has opened in the newly constructed buildings.   Some of the older Cable Beach resorts that were already there are still operating.  There might be  grand plan to call them 'Bahamar Resorts' at some point, but not today.Yes, its affected. And Rosewood tried/is trying to get out of its contract. All the legal maneuvering brought some ownership irregularities to the surface (the wrong Bahamar legal entity owned the land where the Rosewood property was being built).
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if the brands of the hotel towers change with the foreclosure.  The new owners might want certain operators to come in, and that might give Rosewood and/or Hyatt an avenue to get out.



Do you know if they were selling timeshares at Bahamar?


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## komosatp (Nov 20, 2015)

moto x said:


> Do you know if they were selling timeshares at Bahamar?


Timeshares? I dunno. There was going to be a 'residential' element to three of the resorts, according to the Bahamar website.

http://residences.bahamar.com

I think they were trying to go 'higher end' with these units, kind of like The Reef at Atlantis or those fractional ownership Ritz Carlton clubs.  But the fact that I haven't seen any mention of lawsuits from people who put money down for the units probably means that they haven't sold any yet. That gives them leeway to repurpose them when the final ownership eventually gets settled.


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## Helios (Nov 20, 2015)

komosatp said:


> Timeshares? I dunno. There was going to be a 'residential' element to three of the resorts, according to the Bahamar website.
> 
> http://residences.bahamar.com
> 
> I think they were trying to go 'higher end' with these units, kind of like The Reef at Atlantis or those fractional ownership Ritz Carlton clubs.  But the fact that I haven't seen any mention of lawsuits from people who put money down for the units probably means that they haven't sold any yet. That gives them leeway to repurpose them when the final ownership eventually gets settled.



Thanks for posting this.  I would stick with the Reef at Atlantis if I was going to go the residence route.


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## PamMo (May 10, 2017)

YAY!!!     In case you haven't heard, there was a soft opening of Baha Mar last month. The first phase of the Grand Hyatt Baha Mar and Casino opened it's doors April 21st.  I just saw this thread in the Caribbean forum of TUG. The linked articles provide some local news about the resort. I think it is definitely a good thing for Nassau! And for Harborside owners, as Atlantis is already feeling the need to up their game to compete with Baha Mar.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...nally-arrived-for-1-800-room-baha-mar.255586/

Any Tuggers in Harborside that want to go check it out and give us a report?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/...-resort-nassau-hotel-casino-opening.html?_r=0

https://bahamar.grand.hyatt.com/en/hotel/home.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/international-business/article147383954.html

From the Miami Herald article above: 
_As Baha Mar prepares to open, Atlantis — the Paradise Island resort that features the world’s largest marine habitat — plans to take on the competition with a new advertising campaign and music video featuring Bahamian groups. The new campaign launches May 8._​


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## komosatp (May 11, 2017)

PamMo said:


> YAY!!!     In case you haven't heard, there was a soft opening of Baha Mar last month. The first phase of the Grand Hyatt Baha Mar and Casino opened it's doors April 21st.


I actually left HRA on April 21. Had to take an unusual route to the airport due to traffic from the hoopla.

A couple points: 1) through April 21st, Bahamar had not housed any paying customers. All of the 'guests' that were there were employees or invited friends & family. 2) the grand opening was scheduled 30 days before a major election in the Bahamas. There was lots of taxi-driver talk about the politics of the ownership quagmire, and the all of the sealed/secret elements of the deal that was made between the government and the ownership/construction groups that enabled them to have a grand opening in time for the election. I honestly couldn't understand which political party was being held responsible for the quagmire, but the election was just held earlier this week and the incumbent party was thrown out, in what one of the papers called a landslide.

Because of the things that were sealed/remain secret, it isn't entirely clear (to me at least) who the actual owners are. The news says that Chow Tai Fook Enterprises (CTFE), owner of the Rosewood brand, are the owners. Although CTFE is out of Hong Kong, its not clear to me if they are independent of China. And by China, I mean the Chinese government.  China Construction America is owned by entities that are Chinese government controlled....they were the builder of the project and I believe they were awarded ownership when Izmirlian defaulted (was pushed into default?).

Which is a long way of saying that this story might be over, but it might not. Even if it starts taking some paying customers, there are still several elements that are months/a year or so from opening. Plus a new government in the Bahamas that won't necessarily honor the deals the old one made with the Chinese.

But I hope this is over soon. And Bahamar gets healthy and forces Atlantis to up its game. And airlines add back the flights that they cut when this quagmire started. My flight choices were pretty lousy this year.

On my recent trip to Atlantis, I sensed that Atlantis is in a wait and see mode on how to respond. The only major work going on was at the Coral Towers, with the renovation of that pool (and the rooms in that tower too). The dining line up hadn't changed in the past few years and there haven't been any changes to Aquaventure. I hope that Atlantis management and ownership are keeping their powder dry, and will decide upon their competitive response once they see what actually opens over at Bahamar. And when it opens.


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## clsmit (May 13, 2017)

Since Atlantis is owned by Brookfield (a Canadian real estate and financial company) I tend to agree with komosatp's opinion on the wait and see. But since they are under the Marriott flag they have some standards to maintain, and I hope they are able to have some level of service to keep HRA worth going to.


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